Rep. Scott Perry (R-Ohio) joins Lou Dobbs on the Great America Show to discuss his new role as chairman of the Freedom Caucus and why he's running against Rep. Kevin McCarthy for the speakership of the House of Representatives.
00:09:46.360So let's put some meat on the bones here, Lou.
00:09:49.380For instance, anybody that wants to be Speaker of the House needs to be accountable.
00:09:54.360Thomas Jefferson wrote in the rules a couple hundred years ago a thing called the motion to vacate the chair.
00:10:00.540And that was used successfully to remove John Boehner and force his resignation because he did not have the support of the Republican conference.
00:10:28.200And with all due respect to people that say, well, you have two years.
00:10:31.680If you don't like this briefing, you can vote them out after two years.
00:10:34.520Lou, our country doesn't have two years to wait to see if this person that wants to be Speaker and that person wants to be Speaker is up to the task.
00:10:42.060We need to know before that, and there needs to be accountability.
00:10:45.340So, number one, the motion to vacate the chair that Thomas Jefferson offered, it lasted for 220-some years through Civil War, World War, pandemic, you name it.
00:10:55.880Close majorities, big majorities, got to have it.
00:11:02.180Paul Ryan made it an absolute condition precedent of his taking the Speakership, as I understand it, when he said, you will eliminate the motion to vacate because he had just watched Boehner vacate it.
00:11:25.820We prevailed, and we maintained it even under Paul Ryan.
00:11:29.700Look, it's kind of a last resort, right?
00:11:31.740You don't want to use it, but you have to have it.
00:11:33.640It was actually Speaker Pelosi that changed it dramatically and made it almost unusable.
00:11:40.020And now, actually, under Republican leadership here, we just recently voted in the rules package in our conference, and we actually made it even more difficult than it was before.
00:11:56.140Under Speaker Pelosi, of course, they brought back all these earmarks, and so we had a motion in our conference rules just last week to end the earmarks.
00:12:06.440Three-quarters of our conference got up and spoke on behalf of earmarks and unbridled.
00:12:12.340Well, they say, well, there are guardrails on them.
00:12:14.920And I would just encourage you to take a look at some of the things on both sides of the aisle that have been – that have gotten earmarks in the last couple years.
00:12:23.260Look, the last thing we want to do with a new Republican majority is tell the American people, look, elect us, support us, be for us, and here's how we're going to squander all your money and just say it's less than 1% of the total budget.
00:12:36.680Americans understand the influence of earmarks, how they're used to get people to vote for things.
00:12:42.100You know, you want something in your community, and we use that against you if you don't vote for this and you can't have it.
00:12:48.440Those kind of – American people understand that it's a really bad look.
00:12:52.960There's got to be some reason – if we're going to have earmarks – look, I get the argument that the Congress does not want to just send all the money to the Biden administration and have them decide – have Pete Buttigieg, for example, decide where the money's spent.
00:13:06.540Because we know how that's going to go.
00:13:20.260Hasn't happened, certainly in my time in Congress, maybe never happened in my lifetime, is a House rule that says that bills must be single subject.
00:13:28.160So right now, as the example, we have the National Defense Authorization Act coming through Congress, right?
00:13:33.700The Senate is going to load it up because it's a must-pass bill.
00:13:36.860We've got to defend – we've got to pay the troops and defend our country.
00:13:40.060The Senate's going to load it up with things, including things that help newspaper companies fight off big tech.
00:13:47.540Look, that might be an issue that we should be involved in.
00:13:50.080I'm not even sure we should, but that might be an issue that we should discuss.
00:13:53.400But it has nothing to do with the National Defense Authorization, and it shouldn't be in there.
00:13:57.660Members of Congress should vote on single-subject bills so that the people that elect them can see where they stand on these issues and not have to hide – have members hiding, well, I voted no because this was in it.
00:14:10.720I voted yes because that was in it or wasn't in it.
00:14:28.660The NDAA has been a Christmas tree that both parties hang everything they can think of on because it has, as you said, has to be – it's a must-pass piece of legislation.
00:14:40.000You and I both know that Kevin McCarthy would puke himself if he had to give up on earmarks, if he had to give up on single-subject bills,
00:14:51.060had to actually hold hearings, had to actually give subpoenas and meaningful support to the judiciary, the oversight committees, all of the oversight committees.
00:15:01.840Well, look, we don't know yet what we were trying to keep the personalities out of this, Lou.
00:15:07.200We're saying that anybody that wants to be speaker to get our votes has to abide by these things.
00:15:13.640So the motion to vacate, dealing with earmarks.
00:15:17.760These subpoenas – now, I served under John Boehner.
00:15:20.260I served under Paul Ryan, Nancy Pelosi, and whoever's next.
00:15:23.620But I will tell you this, for whatever time I've been here in Congress under Republican leadership, there hasn't been one subpoena that's been sent from these committees.
00:15:32.060I remember under Paul Ryan, you remember the whole Trump-Russia collusion thing.
00:15:35.940I went to the speaker and I said, Mr. Speaker, we've got to get these people in here.
00:15:41.000We've got to put them under oath, and we've got to have them spill the beans.
00:15:45.460We need to know what malfeasance has gone on here.
00:15:48.800And the only way to compel it is through subpoena, and he would say to me, Scott, if we issue them subpoenas, all they're going to do is clam up.
00:15:55.840And I said, Mr. Speaker, all they're going to do now is play you for time, wait out the time, and never show up.
00:16:03.000And so anybody that's going to be speaker of this House under Republicans has to allow Jim Jordan, Jamie Comer, and quite honestly, Lou, every single committee should be able to subpoena people to have them brought in here, certainly under a Biden administration who is fleecing America and destroying the republic.
00:16:18.000So let me ask you this question, because I think it is the issue, the central issue of the Republican Party for the past 30 years.
00:16:26.980How in the world are you, all of you conservatives, all of your moderate Republicans, all the way up to Rhino, which are really Dems, how in the world is it that you need to get permission?
00:16:47.760You suddenly look for a leader who is the most like a Democrat you can find, instead of with the same DNA that all of you have and which your constituents have.
00:16:59.580I mean, the Republicans won the popular vote in the midterms.
00:17:03.240Unfortunately, that means nothing, except it's an interesting point to know that you guys are there because of the broadest expression of the American people.
00:17:11.160How do you look at your constituents and the rest of the American people and say, we're going to put Kevin McCarthy, the flashiest rhino we know, in charge of maybe giving us, if we ask really nice, a subpoena to save the republic?
00:17:29.580And I'll remind you, you already know this, I'm chairman of the House Freedom Caucus and the House Freedom Caucus, in large part, not exclusively because there are some other members, but have brought this discussion, this fight, if you will, to the fore.
00:17:42.240You know, you can read the news clips.
00:17:44.460Of course, they're being derided summarily by what used to be considered conservative media out there saying, oh, you're going to blow the whole thing up and you're going to hand the Democrats the majority.
00:18:36.720I already get to all these these privileges that come with being a member and representing the people of my district.
00:18:42.900We no longer want the illusion of representative government.
00:18:47.000And if that's how this leadership team is going to act, then there's going to be trouble and you might not be in the leadership team.
00:18:53.060That's what that's what the fight is generally about.
00:18:55.340Well, and I have not forgotten that you chair the Freedom Caucus at all, and I am not at all indifferent to the fact that you're a patriot.
00:19:10.320You're one of the most important, in my judgment, one of the most important voices in Congress for the American people, not just your district.
00:19:17.360You are truly representing the nation right now.
00:19:21.480And to to see five members of the of the Freedom Caucus who have been at the point of the spear, if you will, be derided, insulted, attacked.
00:19:36.240And I think it's instructive to everyone that the establishment came up with a substitute for McCarthy and they chose a man who is a has been a Democrat for the last 30 years.
00:19:48.460But he goes by Republican. That's Fred Upton of Michigan.
00:20:12.440It's all being done to put the fear of the Lord in people that something bad is going to happen on January 3rd if we don't pick, you know, one person over another.
00:20:22.900So they come up with these scenarios that somehow a Democrat or this leftist Republican is going to win.
00:20:28.400I remind everybody there's no way a Democrat can win.
00:20:48.000They have told me, look, we don't like what you're doing, but we're never going to vote for a Democrat.
00:20:52.580What they're trying to do is to scare and to put the fear of people and put pressure on people to just go along with the way it's always been done.
00:21:01.420And we're just not going to fall for that, Lou.
00:21:03.200We're just not going to we're just not going to agree with that.
00:21:06.200So, look, these are plants by the people in Washington, D.C.
00:21:10.380They're plants to reporters and stories and even some of our friends to try and take us off our course.
00:21:17.060We can't we cannot diverge from our course.
00:21:18.980The only way to save the republic is to save the republic.
00:21:21.540And you can't keep doing the same thing.
00:21:23.440Most importantly, you can't keep agreeing with Democrats for the sake of bipartisanship just to move the ball forward.
00:21:30.200We're actually moving it back and we can no longer agree to that, which is why we're why we're in this struggle right now.
00:21:36.580And so you're absolutely right that these things are going on.
00:21:40.520But I will just tell you, Lou, that on January 3rd, when the speaker vote's supposed to happen, if we don't end up with a speaker on the first vote or the second vote or by the next morning, you know what's going to happen, Lou?
00:21:52.320The sun's going to come up out of the you know, the sun's going to come up in the sky.
00:22:02.440Most people have no clue who that person is or what they do.
00:22:05.180Anyhow, it's more important to get it right, which is why we're taking the opportunity now to to work out these details.
00:22:12.500And look, like I said, anybody, I think, in the two hundred and twenty two Republican members of the House can be speaker if they agreed to do certain things.
00:22:21.940And if they're not willing to counsel and countenance those things, then they don't have our votes.
00:22:27.080That's just where we are. And it starts with accountability with that with, you know, that motion to vacate.
00:22:33.200But it goes much further into a whole lot of things like single subject.
00:22:36.600We have to know where we're at on the budget. Right.
00:22:38.960We can't keep on letting Mitch McConnell and the Democrats roll us yet.
00:22:42.820We hear every time these speeches. We're not going to let that happen yet.
00:22:45.700Every single time it happens, sometimes literally by the people that seek to lead us.
00:22:50.600Well, we're calling them to the table on those things and say, well, this is what happened in the past.
00:22:55.540Why should we think anything's going to happen different in the future?
00:22:58.200Tell us how that's going to work. And we're and we're sitting there.
00:23:01.480We're waiting to receive information. And their answer is, well, you're just not on the team.
00:23:07.460That's not going to be good enough. Forcing people to be unified is not unifying.
00:23:12.920Well, I'm I consider myself a conservative and good standing.
00:23:18.000I'll put it that way. And I'm a patriot.
00:23:21.720I'm all for America. As a matter of fact, I put it first and I love Donald Trump.
00:23:27.600So I've got I've got some credentials.
00:23:30.260I want everybody to know that when we talk about rhinos, they don't just come in elected officials.
00:23:36.320We got we got a national media and some of them are pretending to be conservatives.
00:23:41.980And I've just got to ask you this. Have you picked up the phone to call Mark Levin and say, who the hell do you think you are?
00:23:48.080Because he can't do basic math. He is a guy who has completely missed the point.
00:23:54.700And he is. I mean, I don't even know what to say to you about the number of people in, quote, unquote, conservative media who've lost their minds and want to see a replay of 2016, 2018, 2020.
00:24:10.140The movie stops here and the really big production has to begin here.
00:24:15.860If you're exactly right. And look, Mark Levin is a good friend.
00:24:20.360You know, I'm a listener. I'm a fan. But I just happen to think he's incorrect on this occasion.
00:24:25.460And look, it's not Democrats who are coming out against us and and and deriding us for for for our actions, saying that, you know, we need a change in how things are done here.
00:24:36.620It's our friends in conservative media. It's our friends in the in the body itself.
00:24:41.780And so you're right. We wonder, you know, you're out there fighting for conservative principles all the time.
00:24:48.300And now when we have a change, when we have an opportunity to actually make a huge change in how things are done.
00:24:54.420Now you abandon us. It certainly doesn't seem it doesn't seem right.
00:24:58.640But look, we we're here. We respect everybody.
00:25:01.520But we are focused on our mission, which is to save the republic.
00:25:04.980And we're and we're remembering things like when President Trump was elected, a lot of people in our party refused to work with him.
00:25:12.460We didn't get the wall built because our speaker at the time just kept telling him, we'll get it the next time.
00:25:17.400We'll get it the next time. And many of us were going to the president and say there isn't going to be a next time.
00:25:22.060You have to do it every time. You have to do it now. Every opportunity.
00:25:25.340That's how this town works. But and so we know that, Lou.
00:25:29.960We know these things, which is why we're pushing now, because if we don't get it right now, once this whole session starts, everything becomes on autopilot.
00:25:38.380Once you give them their votes, Lou, then they don't care about you anymore until the next time they need a vote out of you.
00:25:44.220And then they come looking around. What can I do for you? Whatever.
00:25:47.100We know that this is how this town operates right now.
00:25:50.400They need votes for speaker. If they need votes for speaker. Well, let's talk.
00:25:54.260Let's see what we can do to change this town.
00:25:56.120If you want to make things different and work for the American people, as opposed to the folks that work in this town, then we can have a conversation.
00:26:02.880But if you're for status quo, if you're for keeping on doing the same thing that it had us fail.
00:26:08.040Let's think about it, Lou. What have we succeeded in with Republican majorities?
00:27:20.200America first, MAGA, tax cuts, tariffs in search of balanced international trade and removal of the punishing deficits this country has gone through.
00:27:32.480All that he did in the Middle East, the fact that he insisted that we bring home our troops from afar that have been engaged in nothing but police actions and managing to turn them into wars and lose them for the past 30 years.
00:27:48.520That's brilliant, brilliant leadership from the Pentagon.
00:27:53.060So over that period of time, he is also the guy who wants that wall up.
00:27:58.860And without that wall, we've got over six million illegal immigrants who have entered this country.
00:28:04.340And the president of the United States saying just today that he doesn't want to go to the border while he's in Arizona because he's got more important things to do, which means he'll be on Air Force One on his way to one of his vacation compounds in Delaware.
00:28:22.960And we know what Donald Trump did, America first, make America great again.
00:28:29.760And we've got a Republican Party wants to bring back Ronna McDaniel.
00:28:36.660I mean, that's how big a bunch of idiots are in the RNC.
00:28:40.600And I'm talking about local, state and federal, national.
00:28:44.420How in the world could they even think about it?
00:28:46.540This woman has presided over three disasters and it is and then wants to come back and look into a camera.
00:28:53.900Harmeet Dillon, who is a California National Committee woman for the RNC, at least, will challenge her.
00:29:00.460There should be a half dozen people challenging with ideas and make it a race and make it merit based instead of, you know, who has the longer record raising money.
00:29:12.560That money didn't work out too damn well in this midterm election, did it?
00:29:44.640We just didn't do that well where we don't have the Senate and we have a very thin majority in the House of Representatives.
00:29:51.400There has to be an acknowledgement of the fact that whatever we did, it didn't work out well.
00:29:57.240And I don't know if it's this person or that decision or what have you, but keeping the same people and the same policies is not going to be the answer if you want a different outcome.
00:30:08.140So, again, you can't make it personal.
00:31:20.380And the other part of it is I detest the Marxist dims who have taken this country to this point, mutilating our children, trying to groom them in our public schools.
00:31:33.200I detest them because they're using the word bipartisanship.
00:31:39.200And when I hear a Republican do it, I think there's a rhino.
00:32:35.480And there shouldn't be a single person in the Republican conference who thinks for a moment that Kevin McCarthy deserves to be speaker because of that answer.
00:33:14.540There's no reason that we shouldn't play under the same set of rules, number one.
00:33:18.260Number two, Democrats of the 1950s or 60s, one thing you could count on, Lou, I think, is that they loved their country.
00:33:26.480They knew that America was the greatest place in the world, and they loved the people in the country and what it stood for.
00:33:32.360But thinking that that exists today with folks like some of the members on the other side of the aisle, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley, AOC, et cetera, that literally work every single day to tear down the Constitution, the foundation of our country.
00:33:46.360These are different folks with a different viewpoint that don't love the country as founded, and it's important to put it that way.
00:33:52.740They want to change the whole makeup, the whole culture, everything that we believe in, all of our traditions.
00:33:58.600I find little place where I can work with someone that thinks that way.
00:34:03.060I'm not saying that there's not an opportunity, but there are few and far between, and you have to look hard for them.
00:34:08.460Your default position should be with somebody that's a Marxist that believes in Marxist theory and wants to impose that on America that you're against them.
00:34:17.660If you can find something that you agree on that the sun is coming out today or that you all want to breathe clean air, God bless you.
00:34:25.680But my default position is I'm suspect if they're Marxists and there's probably not a lot we're going to work on.
00:34:41.520Look, we want to work in a bipartisan fashion, but I'm not here to help destroy the country with the Marxists that want to do that, and I refuse to do that.
00:34:49.120Well, that is music to my ears and I'm sure the ears of everyone here because I mean straightforwardly.
00:34:56.280Bipartisanship in this era is collaboration with the enemy.
00:34:59.420I said there are two agendas at work here.
00:36:57.120You know, if you can't take a little criticism, you're in the wrong job.
00:36:59.820If you don't have any courage and you can't take some confrontation, you know, go work as a clerk, stocking shelves, and have a happy life.
00:37:07.520But this job requires us to fight for our country, for this republic, and it's going to mean it's going to be confrontational at times.
00:37:30.960Tomorrow, our guest is Cash Patel, Trump advisor, author, former top Pentagon National Security Council and Justice Department official, and senior advisor to the House Intel Committee under Chairman Devin Nunes.
00:37:44.020We'll be talking about whether the Republican Party, as well-intentioned as they are, can actually bring anyone in the corrupt federal government to justice.
00:37:53.680Please join us here tomorrow for all of that and more.
00:37:56.840Till then, thank you for being with us.
00:37:59.720God bless you, and may God bless America.