The Great America Show - December 23, 2021


THE TIME TO GET AMERICA BACK TO NORMAL IS NOW!


Episode Stats

Length

56 minutes

Words per Minute

165.24518

Word Count

9,274

Sentence Count

611

Misogynist Sentences

4

Hate Speech Sentences

11


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Great America Podcast with Lou Dobbs,
00:00:04.200 always in the fight for truth, justice, and yes, our American way of life.
00:00:09.220 And now, here he is, the Peabody award-winning voice of truth, the great Lou Dobbs.
00:00:14.340 Welcome back to the Great America Show. We are, of course, in the midst of incredibly troubled
00:00:19.560 times, whether we're talking about the Omicron variant of the Chinese virus that suddenly is
00:00:25.780 everywhere, and of course, so is Dr. Fauci. On every network, it seems, on every station,
00:00:32.840 blaring his alarms and his constant hair of fire demeanor isn't exactly calming the nation.
00:00:39.880 The great news is fewer people have died, more cases are asymptomatic, and symptoms are, for the
00:00:48.180 most part, mild as a result of this new variant. And that's, and I say seems, because it's early
00:00:55.620 days. And we already know when it comes to this China virus pandemic, we have to start out with
00:01:03.220 what seems before we know what is. But President Biden and his advisors seem intent on turning the
00:01:09.980 pandemic again into another national emergency, which means more shutdowns, lockdowns, closures,
00:01:15.960 and of course, more government power over our lives, less freedom, and seemingly more confusion
00:01:22.620 over what this version of the variant of the virus really amounts to. But we have with us today a
00:01:29.100 brilliant doctor, possessed of not only great knowledge about what we've gone through in this
00:01:33.920 country over the past two years, but who is possessed of an original mind and thoughtful advocate for
00:01:40.680 public health, good sense, and the freedoms of individual citizens. With us today, Dr. Peter McCullough.
00:01:49.140 Good to have you with us here on The Great America Show. Well, thanks for having me.
00:01:53.460 Doctor, let's start with, first of all, this Omicron variant. The authorities, public health
00:02:00.480 authorities, seem to be intent on making this into another delta, perhaps squared or cubed. And that
00:02:09.120 seemed to be the initial tone of it all. And then we hear from the South African doctor. She says,
00:02:15.560 mild symptoms, not to worry, basically. Your take on what we are facing here.
00:02:22.020 You know, our CDC has actually been, I think, very fair about this. We originally heard about the
00:02:27.520 Omicron variant on the border of Botswana. Some travelers fully vaccinated had this new highly
00:02:33.080 mutated variant, and it actually had a signature result on the PCR. It's called S-gene dropout. It means
00:02:40.160 the spike protein is sufficiently mutated that the primer, it doesn't cycle on the PCR for the spike
00:02:45.820 protein. Having said that, though, our CDC came out with a report in MMWR dated December 10th, 2021,
00:02:53.280 where they were chronically the first cases in the U.S., 43 cases. Turned out that 79% were in those
00:03:01.040 fully vaccinated. And the most commonly reported symptoms were cough, fatigue, congestion, or a runny
00:03:07.120 nose. One vaccinated patient was hospitalized just for two days. It was probably just a panic
00:03:11.700 hospitalization and no deaths. And since that time, our CDC, interestingly, has a forecaster. It's called
00:03:19.840 Nowcast. You can go on the website and see what they're forecasting. They are forecasting that by the week
00:03:26.460 ending 12-11-2021, and we don't have the data in on that, they're forecasting 12% Omicron proportion in
00:03:34.940 the United States, basically etching into the dominance of Delta. And then by December 18th,
00:03:40.860 again, that date is passed, and the data will come in in arrears. There, they're forecasting 74%
00:03:49.460 Omicron. Well, those are bold predictions. We've never seen the CDC predict such a giant jump in
00:03:56.780 proportion. With Delta, in fact, it was a little bit behind that we are going to have the dominance of
00:04:02.580 Delta. And the current estimates are on transmissibility index that the Omicron is going to be less
00:04:09.600 transmissible than Delta, not more transmissible, less transmissible. Well, let me interrupt you at that
00:04:15.700 point, because that's 180 degrees from what was being said by public health authorities a week ago.
00:04:24.460 You know, just so you can get a handle on this, the transmissibility, the very first looks at
00:04:32.240 transmissibility occur from computer modeling. So because the outer portion of the spike protein
00:04:38.220 called the S1 segment, in fact, that tip is called the receptor binding domain, that's what locks into
00:04:43.260 the human ACE2 receptor. All of the structure of that is sufficiently known that once the mutations
00:04:49.620 are known in the receptor binding domain, one can actually calculate how transmissible it would be,
00:04:55.400 because the virus, if it can't lock into that portal of entry, it can't inject itself into cells.
00:05:00.800 So with Delta, the transmissibility index was worked out and has ultimately proven
00:05:04.220 in infectivity cell cultures to be over 10 for Delta. It was about two for the original Wuhan wild
00:05:11.920 type. So right now, transmissibility came in from a lab in France, the initial from the modeling at around
00:05:18.960 four. So we'll have to see. And our CDC directors, I think, did fairly say that, listen, we don't know
00:05:24.980 yet how transmissible it is. I've just never seen such bold predictions that literally we would be,
00:05:31.080 you know, if they're correct, that means right now we're at 76% Omicron. And if that is correct,
00:05:38.240 it's very interesting. You know, there's a whole wave of COVID positivity across major sports leagues
00:05:43.020 right now. And we're not hearing of anybody getting sick. There's a whole wave of COVID cases
00:05:49.320 in the U.S. Senate right now. But no one's sick and in the hospital on ventilators. This is a really
00:05:54.320 interesting time.
00:05:55.980 It is an interesting time. And by the way, when I say something is 180 degrees opposite what had been
00:06:02.520 said earlier by public health authorities, I have no dog in this hunt. I'm a skeptic by nature of
00:06:10.420 government. I don't trust government. I think it's a God-given right of every American, and I think
00:06:16.860 a birthright, to be skeptical of government. We used to pride ourselves on our ingenuity,
00:06:22.780 our hard work, and yes, our skepticism of authority. That seems to have been ebbing here in the last few
00:06:30.860 decades. But where I come from is not as a political, you know, a political partisan. I just have a,
00:06:37.000 what I consider at least a healthy skepticism of government and taking things that just face value
00:06:44.780 in particularly early days like these. So we did have a sort of a uniform statement from public
00:06:52.880 health authorities that it was going to be much more highly transmissible than Delta, and certainly
00:06:59.060 more so than the Wuhan virus. And this is great news. If indeed it isn't, I think that that would
00:07:07.220 be a positive. Is it what it seems, or is it counterintuitive?
00:07:12.780 Well, Lou, they're following what's called Mueller's Ratchet. And Mueller's Ratchet says that when the
00:07:19.700 virus gets to an evolutionary bottleneck, that there can be a big jump in mutational status in order for the
00:07:27.140 virus to become more transmissible. And almost always when that happens, it becomes less lethal,
00:07:32.960 because the virus has to keep its prey alive in order to go to the next susceptible person.
00:07:38.400 The only thing that we're seeing here, that new variable here in the kind of viral ecology and
00:07:45.400 evolution is vaccination. And, you know, the vaccination is something that the virus, you know,
00:07:51.620 naturally won't anticipate, but obviously is going to respond to. And so we have data that just came in
00:07:57.020 from Denmark. And the report is dated December 13th, status of SARS-CoV-2 variant Omicron in Denmark.
00:08:05.120 And listen to this, they're a heavily vaccinated country. So they had 67% of their cases of other
00:08:14.360 variants, not Omicron, 67% were in the fully vaccinated. And we see that now in Israel and
00:08:20.520 elsewhere. And it's just because the vaccines don't stop Delta, don't stop Delta particularly,
00:08:25.700 don't stop the other variants as completely as what we would like. Now with Omicron, they had
00:08:31.640 reported 33, 60 cases and 79%, which was in Omicron, 79% of those cases, 33, 60 out of the 42, 51,
00:08:45.380 they were in the fully vaccinated. The point I'm making is the proportionality of Omicron in the
00:08:50.400 fully vaccinated is even greater. So it's possible that Omicron has quickly learned how to thrive even
00:08:56.920 to a greater extent in the vaccinated. Now that would give it an evolutionary advantage over Delta.
00:09:02.640 Evolutionary advantage. And for we hosts, our potential host, a disadvantage, correct?
00:09:09.820 You know, yes and no, because if, if, if, if a vaccinated person, and we assume maybe many of
00:09:16.980 the senators right now who are sick, let's just say that they're vaccinated. In fact, they have
00:09:21.480 Omicron and they're having a mild illness. We know that they get fully exposed to all the epitopes on
00:09:27.400 the spike protein, the nucleocapsid, you know, the virus has 27 proteins. When you get the, when you
00:09:32.480 get the respiratory infection, you get immunity against 27 proteins. You're not just dealing with
00:09:36.760 permutations in the spike protein. You have a robust T cell immunity, a T presenter helper and natural
00:09:43.040 killer cells. And so that permanent memory then would give a much more durable immune status where
00:09:50.200 one goes out in a, in a congregate setting, they're not going to, you know, get COVID-19 again because
00:09:55.400 they're protected. So, so what are we to make of Omicron at this particular point? Is it deadlier?
00:10:03.480 Is it more transmissible? Uh, is it, is it milder and will there be fewer deaths or more? What,
00:10:11.260 what is your, uh, your picture of Omicron and what can we expect?
00:10:17.120 Well, you know, Laura Ingram had me on, I think a couple of weeks ago on this. It's always hard to
00:10:21.660 make a prediction. Last year, I published a whole series of op-eds in the Hill. This year, I started
00:10:26.420 America out loud talk radio, the McCullough report. And so far I haven't missed on major predictions
00:10:31.080 because I've been conservative. Um, but I can tell you right now, reading the data early,
00:10:35.400 it looks like Omicron is, uh, carving out its own ecological niche. It's maybe have a greater
00:10:43.240 center on those who are vaccinated. And so far, all the reports indicate that it looks like it's
00:10:48.840 milder. Although the first death was reported, I think in Texas, uh, in vulnerable, yeah. In
00:10:54.760 vulnerable people, there will be deaths. But remember the single greatest factor that dictates if
00:10:59.320 something is mild or severe is early treatment, not, not the, not the vaccine status or not even
00:11:04.400 the virus. It's always about early treatment. So if people get early treatment, they get prompt
00:11:09.720 early treatment, starting with virucidal, uh, washes in the nose and mouth that are highly effective.
00:11:15.120 And then we move on to our monoclonal antibodies. You know, I was on Joe Rogan and he went over the,
00:11:20.080 the protocol. I saw, I told him Joe, basically he, he received the McCullough protocol. It's now
00:11:23.880 copyrighted. Someone copyrighted in my name, the original protocol I published teaching the world how to
00:11:28.360 treat COVID-19. I said, Joe, you, you received exactly how I drew it up for America and the world.
00:11:33.520 And you got through it in three days. And I said, if we just did that in everybody, you know, we could
00:11:38.600 get back to work and just let America be, get back on to business here and just treat the sick patients
00:11:43.920 who present before us. The, the, uh, McCullough treatment, uh, works for Joe Rogan and, and thank
00:11:52.760 goodness, uh, you're talking about therapeutics. You're talking about antivirals and a way to
00:11:58.200 proceed. Give us, give us the rundown. The rundown now in 2021 starts with breakthrough
00:12:05.720 information about, uh, the nose and the mouth. And there was a pivotal study by Chowdhury and
00:12:10.280 colleagues, 606 individuals randomized 303 to each group. They were coming down with COVID-19 and they
00:12:16.200 were randomized to getting Pavadone iodine or dilute betadine. Uh, you buy betadine as a brown,
00:12:21.780 uh, solution. They use in emergency rooms to sterilize wounds. Uh, ophthalmologists use this
00:12:26.840 eye drops, but you just dilute it down. You buy it on Amazon or Walmart, uh, dilute it down, uh,
00:12:32.240 considerably to a 1% solution. And then basically squirt it up the nose, sniff it back and spit it
00:12:37.600 out the mouth, then gargle with it, or just gargle with scope or Listerine do that once or twice a day.
00:12:43.120 That's enormously preventive in terms of killing the virus or killing enough of the viral particles
00:12:48.440 to where they don't start a clinical infection. And then what Chowdhury did blue Chowdhury actually
00:12:53.080 randomized people coming down with it. It dramatically clears the PCR to negative dramatically. I mean,
00:12:58.980 over 75% drops risk alone with no other treatment reduces the chances of ever ending up in the hospital
00:13:05.860 needing oxygen or dying. So we start this now. I do this in my seniors routinely. I teach all my
00:13:10.660 patients this, and we still have great backup. After that, we use nutraceuticals and supplements
00:13:15.220 that are modestly helpful, but zinc, vitamin D, vitamin C, quercetin. We use an antihistamine
00:13:21.140 antacid called famotidine. Remember president Trump received famotidine as part of it's a mild
00:13:26.620 antiviral. We use azithromycin and doxycycline to cover some overlap organisms. And then after that
00:13:32.540 inhaled budesonide in the stoic trial, they had over an 85% reduction in hospitalization. It's
00:13:38.120 inhaled a strong steroid. We use oral colchicine, an anti-inflammatory. That was shown in a huge
00:13:44.300 randomized trial, the co-corona trial, over 4,000 prospective double-blind randomized placebo-controlled
00:13:49.300 to reduce hospitalization and death. On day five or pulmonary symptoms, we use oral prednisone like
00:13:55.160 we'd use in asthma or in emphysema. And then we're just down to blood thinners after that. Everybody goes
00:14:00.680 on aspirin, 325 milligrams throughout. Japanese do that out to 90 days. I think that's prudent because
00:14:06.020 are late heart attacks and strokes. And then high-risk patients, honestly, Lou, someone your
00:14:09.960 age, someone the age of our people who may have some other medical problems that accrue or are less
00:14:17.600 mobile. We use Lovenox. We actually use Lovenox injections preemptively, one milligram per kilogram
00:14:23.040 every 12 hours. And then we can use oral anticoagulants. All the seniors, certainly all the nursing home
00:14:30.940 residents get the full suite. Joe Rogan used the term kitchen sink. I said, Joe, it's really what's
00:14:35.520 called sequence multidrug therapy. It's typically four to six drugs, short course for somebody over
00:14:40.660 age 50. And that's kind of where we start treatment. People under 50 in general don't need any treatment,
00:14:44.800 but over 50 with medical problems, five days is short course. I'm about 60, Lou. So for me,
00:14:51.220 it'd be about 10 days. People are getting closer to upper 70s or 80s. We go full 30 days. And I have
00:14:57.420 treated patients in their 90s and I get them through the illness. And let me tell you what,
00:15:01.160 if I get a 90-year-old and they get COVID-19 and they get no treatment and they sit in their
00:15:06.660 apartment or in their senior facility and you let them brew for two weeks or three weeks,
00:15:11.560 I guarantee you they're going to end up in the hospital. The viral load, I think, increases
00:15:17.000 greatly in that period of time when I have the opportunity. So this is fascinating to me,
00:15:23.180 the doctor, because what you're saying is we should start with the therapeutics,
00:15:27.700 not sit there and kind of wait around and see whether or not we go to the hospital, right?
00:15:33.040 Right. What I described is what's called the precautionary principle. So when I
00:15:37.200 laid out the treatment program for the U.S. and for the world last year,
00:15:41.860 the operating principles were the following. That, listen, this is a mass casualty event.
00:15:47.740 Large, randomized, highly definitive clinical trials take two to five years to do.
00:15:52.300 The federal guidelines that depend on large, randomized trial will take another two years
00:15:56.460 to come forward. We don't have time. Americans are dying now. The precautionary principle says,
00:16:01.520 it's like being a trauma doctor. Take action now. We look for drugs that have an acceptable
00:16:06.780 signal of benefit and acceptable safety, and we put them together in combinations. We knew this was a
00:16:13.040 fatal illness. It's not a single drug program. I mentioned the oral and nasal washes, then the
00:16:20.080 nutraceuticals. The next layer after that is the monoclonal antibodies. And I should have mentioned
00:16:25.220 the Operation Warp Speed delivered some terrific products. We have lilies back on the market with
00:16:31.020 bamilivimab, urtosumab, combination, Regeneron spent our workhorse. Former President Trump received
00:16:36.280 this. Rogan, that's indimimab, caracivimab. And now GSK probably is the best product. That's
00:16:42.420 sotirivimab. That's an antibody against a stable epitope on the spike protein. I'm telling you,
00:16:48.080 these monoclonal antibodies are wonderful. I use them every day in my practice. The GSK product hit
00:16:54.280 the New England Journal of Medicine, 85% reductions in hospitalizations and death. And that's just up
00:16:59.080 front. We give it day one. I tell everybody, we're two years into this. There shouldn't be a single
00:17:04.160 senior citizen where we get a panic call. They should scout out, know where their antibody centers are,
00:17:09.160 know the hours of operation, first come, first serve, or scheduled. I have like two or three
00:17:13.820 people today getting monoclonal antibodies. They work, they're effective, and they make it so much
00:17:18.680 easier. If we give monoclonal antibodies, I typically skip hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin,
00:17:23.600 and I go into the anti-inflammatories and antithrombotics. If I don't give monoclonal
00:17:28.280 antibodies, then my fallback is to use hydroxy supported by over 300 studies. Now, it's a modest
00:17:32.960 benefit, about a 25% treatment effect. Ivermectin supported by 60 studies, about a
00:17:39.120 70% treatment effect. And then outside the United States, they have favipiravir in Japan and Russia.
00:17:45.240 A lot of Americans don't know that there's actually officially FDA-equivalent-approved drugs
00:17:48.900 outside the United States. And now we got the Pfizer drug coming on, which is a combination of
00:17:53.360 two protease inhibitors. One of them is a novel commies like 3-protease inhibitor, and then an older
00:18:00.400 one used in AIDS called ritonavir. It's a combined product. And then the Merck product is molnipiravir,
00:18:05.160 which is similar to the favipiravir used in Japan. But the point is, we have a nice layer of
00:18:10.080 antivirals, and they are very well tolerated and safe. It looks like all of them would be safe,
00:18:16.060 that we would use them as an oral approach if we can't get the monoclonal antibodies going quickly,
00:18:22.340 or for some reason are not going to use them. If I had a younger person with severe symptoms,
00:18:26.880 for instance, or going to be remote from a center. I had a lady today, East Texas.
00:18:31.120 I talked to her today. She got through COVID. I said, did you ever get the monoclonal antibody?
00:18:36.320 She goes, no, I was too remote. I relied on the hydroxychloroquine and the other drugs.
00:18:41.120 Fine. Unfortunately, her husband ended up in the hospital. That's what the call is about. He's in
00:18:44.920 his 70s. And I tell you, Americans should know, listen, we have pre-purchased so many of these
00:18:50.700 antibodies. We're oversupplied with them. Everybody should have an action plan. There should be no
00:18:55.300 surprises right now. COVID is still, somebody is still susceptible. They need to take action and have
00:19:00.400 their plan in place. When you say if somebody is still susceptible, we're hearing a lot of stories
00:19:07.140 about Omicron attacking the vaccinated successfully and infecting them. What does that mean for immunity
00:19:18.060 of the vaccinated? What should people expect here? We had data with the vaccines. Americans were
00:19:28.840 owed a monthly report from our agencies now that FDA are running the vaccine program, which in many
00:19:35.280 ways is a mistake. The FDA should actually not be running a program. They should be the drug safety
00:19:39.560 watchdog. The CDC shouldn't be running a program because they're really the outbreak investigation
00:19:44.700 unit. We should have had a separate vaccine task force run the US program. And then we should have had
00:19:51.120 an independent data safety monitoring board. Someone like something I do in my academic career,
00:19:55.700 someone like me or a panel of people like me to actually oversee the program in order to guide on
00:20:00.640 safety and efficacy. But because we had the wrong agencies leading the program, Americans still have
00:20:05.600 not gotten a report. There still hasn't been an official federal report saying, what's the best
00:20:10.600 vaccine? What's the worst vaccine? Where are the safety problems? We've been flying blind. And so what we
00:20:16.360 had to do is rely on what kind of gets out in the peer-reviewed publication literature, which is
00:20:21.240 oftentimes delayed, but it started to come in and let me give you the key citations. They started to come
00:20:27.100 in in September and the first one looked favorable. It was produced by the CDC in their own journal called
00:20:35.060 the MMWR. The first author is self and colleagues. They reported protection against
00:20:41.460 hospitalization. Now, remember, this is not randomized and people who take the vaccine are much more likely to
00:20:48.200 get monoclonal antibodies and get early treatment, right? Because they're activated. So these numbers
00:20:52.520 are stilted in favor of making the vaccine look good. We also know that the CDC told the vaccinated
00:20:58.800 not to get tests and they told hospitals don't test people when they come into the hospital. So there's a
00:21:03.620 testing bias where the unvaccinated get overtested and the vaccinated get undertested. So all these biases
00:21:09.000 work to exaggerate vaccine efficacy. Having said that, here are the numbers at 128 days, 120 days in the
00:21:17.580 self-publication. Moderna came in at 92% vaccine efficacy against hospitalization. Pfizer came in
00:21:25.380 same time period, 77%. And then Johnson & Johnson came in at 68%. Now, Moderna in every analysis always
00:21:33.140 is the best against protecting against hospitalization and complications because Moderna is 100 micrograms of
00:21:39.320 messenger RNA. Pfizer is only 30 micrograms of messenger RNA. And Johnson & Johnson are adenoviral
00:21:45.780 particles. But our agencies have not, up until just recently, not really made a distinguishment
00:21:51.020 between the vaccines. And since we have an oversupply of vaccines, if this is an urgent problem,
00:21:57.520 which it is, I think our public agencies should be guiding people to the best vaccine. And we haven't
00:22:02.860 really seen that. Now, the self paper had no information on Delta. The big paper that came in was
00:22:08.980 the Ivy Network paper. That's a federally supported investigational group. First author is 1040.
00:22:15.500 That is in Gemma. And they're about 85% vaccine efficacy and hospitalization with all these biases.
00:22:22.220 But the key table is figure three, where they have people in the hospital who clearly have COVID. So
00:22:28.200 this is now clear. This isn't just with COVID. They have got COVID. And the vaccines collectively had
00:22:34.980 a 59% risk reduction in the progression of COVID-19 disease. But the key number is death. Now, of the
00:22:43.000 vaccinated hospitalized, 6.3% died. Of the unvaccinated hospitalized, 8.6% died. And the P value was
00:22:53.180 statistically insignificant. So it trended in favor of the vaccines for protection and death, but was not
00:22:58.700 statistically significant. And then the final paper to mention is by Cohn and colleagues. This is from the
00:23:03.840 US VA system. This just came in in the last few months, 780,225 veterans. And they organized them
00:23:13.780 in terms of age group. They don't know exactly if they died of COVID or what they died of, but they
00:23:19.800 know who's COVID positive and who isn't. So of those who never tested COVID positive ever, they died of
00:23:25.480 other things. The vaccine was actually associated with a benefit. So that means selection bias. Those who
00:23:31.800 who take the vaccine are more likely to survive overall, just because of general selection
00:23:37.600 characteristics. And the point spread on that was about a three percentage absolute difference in
00:23:45.320 those survival curves. Now of those who died and they had COVID or died with COVID, the spread over age 65,
00:23:51.960 Lou, was 12% absolute risk reduction. That's pretty substantial. Now age under 65, the story is very
00:23:59.660 different. There's only a 1% absolute benefit for the vaccine under age 65. Now in that finally,
00:24:07.040 for the overall PCR positivity rate and developing COVID-19, all the protection fell off a cliff in
00:24:15.220 September. So Moderna went from 90% protection to 59% protection. Pfizer went from 87% to 43%. And Johnson
00:24:25.560 and Johnson went from about 86% down to 15%. All right. Yeah. What happened in this is a huge
00:24:32.020 sample. What happened in September, Lou, was most of the veterans came to a six month expiration on
00:24:37.140 their vaccine. The vaccines basically wore off. And then we had the full shading in of the Delta variant,
00:24:42.220 which is, you know, has resistances against the vaccine. So both those things happened. So in September,
00:24:47.080 we knew that our seniors were becoming uncovered. And I think that's what pushed our agencies in the next few
00:24:52.640 months to basically say we need boosters. Yeah. And, and with the differences in efficacy, after you, you know,
00:25:01.720 account for some, some bias, some advantage, which of the vaccine seems, now we're two years into this,
00:25:11.400 as you point out, I have the horrible feeling going back to my skepticism. I have the horrible feeling
00:25:17.760 that we don't have two years worth of better information and knowledge about what we're doing
00:25:25.240 in this pandemic, our public health agencies in particular, and the way in which the science is
00:25:31.580 being disseminated to people who need to understand it. So after all of that, doctor, which is the best
00:25:39.620 vaccine of the ones that we, we mentioned, whether it's a Moderna, whether it's Pfizer, whether it's
00:25:45.840 J and J what is the other one? Right. There's AstraZeneca outside the United States. And actually
00:25:54.800 today Novavax was just approved in the EU. The answer to your question, though, I'm looking at the
00:25:59.700 data right now, just one more paper, Nordstrom and colleagues, huge study from Sweden in published
00:26:05.080 in Lancet, 1.6 million pairs. So it means half vaccinated, half not vaccinated, solid study.
00:26:11.460 Let me give you the data. Pfizer starts out at 30 days. Pfizer has 92% protection against symptomatic
00:26:17.800 COVID-19 and that protection in six months drops to 23%. Moderna starts out at 96% at 30 days and it
00:26:27.100 drops to 69%. I'm telling you every analysis, Moderna is the winner. Well, that's important, but we don't
00:26:33.700 hear that in the, in the popular press. We do not hear that from the CDC. The, there, this is like
00:26:41.460 putting out a placebo in many respects in the midst of a, of a, of a crisis and it's representative. And
00:26:49.940 thank you, doctor, for giving me a straight answer, because as you know, those straight answers are very
00:26:55.960 hard to get generally in the, in the media and it's desperately needed. Let me ask you this.
00:27:03.700 Uh, as well, if, are we going to just have to keep getting boosters here or, uh, what do you
00:27:10.800 anticipate? Well, first of all, let me back up and talk about we, and what that means. We people 65 and
00:27:18.340 older, we people 75 and older, we people, uh, in their eighties, uh, up, uh, these are very different
00:27:27.980 groups, especially from the forties and the 50 year olds in this country. And then the young people,
00:27:34.100 but we're all getting the same advice, the same counsel, the same direction about vaccination.
00:27:39.460 And we're being told that we're not vaccinated, uh, you know, and it's poppycock, the most vulnerable
00:27:45.140 populations. We who are older are getting vaccinated. Are we not? Absolutely. And, uh, you know, I think
00:27:54.100 there's been, um, so much division around this vaccinated and unvaccinated and I'll just give
00:27:59.720 you the, the, the CDC numbers. I mean, we are a highly vaccinated country. The CDC has a report
00:28:06.380 out August, uh, October 25th. Lou, we've, we've had 220 million Americans receive at least one dose
00:28:14.460 of the vaccine through October 25th. Wow. We are heavily vaccinated. Remember, you know,
00:28:21.060 the children comprise about 70 million, uh, individuals. Then we had data, uh, with the
00:28:27.260 Delta outbreak. My estimates are, you know, and it's the best I can as a, just as a, as a, as a
00:28:32.560 guess, as an estimate that we probably have 80% of children have already had COVID-19 now. And one of
00:28:38.680 the support for that, yeah, listen to this. The reason why, how do we know that is because there's
00:28:43.420 no school outbreaks. All the kids are back at school now for six months, not a single school outbreak.
00:28:48.220 I presented recently at a conference with Scott Atlas. Scott had the data on teachers,
00:28:53.800 elementary school and junior high teachers, safest profession from freedom of COVID-19.
00:28:58.300 The kids are an immunologic buffer because they've already been through it. So the CDC put out an
00:29:03.620 estimate of how many people are actually naturally immune. That means they've already been through the
00:29:09.900 illness and it's basically over with. And that number came in at, uh, the CDC tends to be conservative
00:29:16.160 on this at 146 million individuals. So, uh, you know, with that, we have, uh, over 140 studies
00:29:26.000 showing natural immunity is robust, complete and durable, uh, meaning, uh, that there is no meaningful,
00:29:31.940 uh, opportunity for a second serious infection. Now people test positive intermittently forever.
00:29:38.740 So there is a ton of false positive testing out there. Somebody in my family tested positive 17 times
00:29:44.120 after having COVID forever. And they, and I kept telling my family, I said, listen, they didn't get COVID
00:29:49.180 17 times. They're fine. It's just, you get it once. And we now know that remnants of the virus
00:29:54.820 loose stay in the body for a year and a half after infection that's been shown by Bruce Patterson. So of
00:30:00.000 course people are going to intermittently test positive after having the initial infection. We just need
00:30:04.160 to stop the testing. Once somebody has been through the serious illness. Yeah. And meanwhile, the,
00:30:09.560 the white house is wanting to put out, uh, what 500, uh, uh, million, uh, test kits. Uh, it's,
00:30:17.440 it's crazy. Uh, you know, if it's, you're not, when it comes to Biden, uh, and, and actually all of
00:30:26.660 government, uh, they really don't have much of a sense of what is taxpayer money and what is their
00:30:31.400 money. Uh, they spend hours like they would never spend their own. Uh, I, I just, the testing is,
00:30:38.360 uh, you know, I is important, but at this, at this juncture, based on what you're saying
00:30:43.460 with the number of people in this country, in the millions who've been, uh, inoculated,
00:30:49.320 uh, who have then add that, uh, those who have natural immunity, we're a country that shouldn't
00:30:56.800 need to be locked down. Should we? No. If you look at the Venn diagram of those who've already been
00:31:02.440 through it, the CDC estimate through October 2nd, 2021 is 146.6 million. The CDC estimate that 200
00:31:09.460 and 220 million people have taken at least one dose of the vaccine. Uh, and the fact that, you know,
00:31:17.400 our treatment, uh, approaches have advanced so greatly. I've taken the view that, you know, we
00:31:23.500 could just go back to normal. And when COVID-19 presents itself, treat it promptly, uh, in the
00:31:30.340 outpatient arena, if people get sick, handle them in the hospital and just go back to normal.
00:31:34.440 We, at some point in time, we're going to have to declare it over and just let the doctors
00:31:38.760 treat, treat it out. And let's close out the pandemic. Let's get back to normal. But if we,
00:31:44.220 if we go out and do the things that we've been doing is creating more fear. So for instance,
00:31:49.920 our president, uh, I want to say about a week before Christmas said that we're heading into a dark
00:31:55.960 and deadly winter or the unvaccinated blue America needs leadership. That's positive. That is, um,
00:32:07.000 joyous around the time of the holidays. And Americans want to hear, especially our seniors,
00:32:12.180 they want to hear a good word that it's okay. And that we can, uh, you know, get together over the
00:32:17.700 holidays. And if something happens, we can treat them and get them through it.
00:32:20.960 And let me just, if I may recap a bit here on, um, one thing in particular, uh, by the way,
00:32:29.960 I was reading the wall street journal the other day. Uh, and in it was what happens,
00:32:35.980 what should you do if you contract, uh, COVID or Omicron? It is the only article I have seen in the
00:32:45.200 popular press, uh, in all media in the last, I would say six months, certainly about what to do
00:32:53.260 if you get, uh, get, uh, infected. Uh, I haven't, and it may be by the way, much longer than that,
00:33:00.340 but I think it was about six months ago, six months to a year ago. We don't see people telling
00:33:05.480 people what to do if you get the disease for crying out loud. Uh, and so I want to, uh, congratulate
00:33:12.480 the wall street journal for having done so. Uh, but, uh, it's almost impossible to get good
00:33:19.160 information on what, uh, what is going on. And I want to thank you again, doctor, for,
00:33:24.480 for what you're doing here today. You're giving us reason for joy. I, and the, and the best way that
00:33:30.200 can, uh, you know, the best way to boost anyone is to improve their knowledge and to, uh, to give
00:33:36.220 them the facts, uh, and these facts are, are wonderful. But what I hear you saying too, is
00:33:42.180 we need to be focused as much on antivirals and therapeutics certainly, or perhaps more so
00:33:48.620 than vaccines. Am I wrong? No, you're exactly right. Remember the vast majority of people who
00:33:54.180 take the vaccine will never come in contact with COVID. So we just have to focus on the narrow band
00:33:59.680 at any given time that actually have the illness and treat them. Cause remember if someone is
00:34:05.300 untreated, Lou, they go 14 days of being contagious and they spread it around family members ultimately
00:34:11.040 come over everyone. They, everyone, it's, it just propagates the virus. If we treat early,
00:34:16.020 we reduce the infectivity period to like with Joe Rogan is good case example down to three or four days.
00:34:22.560 And so the bottom line is by treating early, we snuff out the pandemic. That's exactly what happened
00:34:26.800 in Mexico city. They shifted to an early treatment program. They snuffed it out. Same thing happened
00:34:31.460 in India, Sri Lanka, uh, Bangladesh is really focused on the oral nasal hygiene. They have 160 million
00:34:39.700 people, crowded conditions. They're almost down to zero COVID. Uh, countries have taken different
00:34:44.880 approaches. Italy, uh, heavily vaccinated country, but they, they overlaid it with a treatment domiciliary,
00:34:50.720 which is an oral hydroxychloroquine based approach with multiple drugs. They, they had declarations
00:34:56.380 in cities of zero COVID in some of their major cities. One of the things that we haven't seen
00:35:00.920 is we haven't seen teams of doctors in Washington. When I testified in the U S Senate last year,
00:35:06.100 I told America, I said, we needed four sets of teams. We needed a team of doctors focusing on
00:35:11.420 reducing spread of the virus. The biggest thing we've learned is decontaminate the nose and the
00:35:15.500 mouth. That's huge. The second thing is we needed a team on early treatment, all the therapeutics,
00:35:20.400 everything we talked about on therapeutics and each team monthly updates to the country.
00:35:24.660 Uh, team number three in hospital treatment. We haven't heard anything, any updates in in
00:35:29.640 hospital treatment now for a year. Um, uh, you know, there must be advances. There must be
00:35:33.540 clinical trials. Uh, let's see it. And then finally a team focused on vaccination. What we had is we had
00:35:39.080 a preoccupation on two things for two years now, masks and lawns and vaccines. And we, we have not
00:35:45.460 had a balanced approach and we haven't had any teamwork. American is pretty much seen one or two people
00:35:50.300 on TV, no teams of doctors. Remember no two doctors agree on anything. So we always need teams.
00:35:55.940 We need consensus. We need independence. We can't have our government officials calling the shots.
00:36:02.080 We never do, by the way, and other medical problems, it's always an independent team of
00:36:06.620 doctors that basically becomes the consensus panel. Always. We never have single government
00:36:11.760 officials running any consensus in medicine. I got to say to you, doctor, you and I are getting
00:36:16.300 along beautifully. Uh, I love it. Independence and, uh, it's in healthy skepticism goes a long way.
00:36:24.220 Uh, uh, even in science, I love the people who are decided that, you know, if it's, uh, it's emanating
00:36:30.620 from a, uh, uh, a science journal or whatever, it must be gospel and therefore must be, you know,
00:36:36.300 I have to respond to that because it was stated that, uh, one of our government officials that he
00:36:43.420 himself represented himself as science. And, you know, I can tell you as a, I can tell you as a,
00:36:49.200 as a senior, as a senior doctor, I mean, I have 650 publications in the peer-reviewed, uh, literature.
00:36:55.340 That's in the top echelon of anybody in the world. I'm in, I focus on heart and kidney disease. I'm in
00:36:59.760 that, in that area. I'm the most published person in the world in history. I have 52 papers published
00:37:05.600 on COVID-19, including the two seminal papers, you know, teaching the world how to treat COVID-19.
00:37:09.680 I have a right to have an opinion. Uh, I tell you, I can tell your listeners and you that science,
00:37:15.780 the process, it's a discipline. It can't be represented by a single person that type of
00:37:20.280 demagoguery America should, should, should immediately be alarmed with, uh, and be distrustful
00:37:25.640 of. And, uh, I can tell you something else that I've been on the news. One time, uh, I was accused
00:37:31.300 of being a skeptic and Laura Ingram brought this up and I said, Laura skepticism is the lifeblood of
00:37:36.480 science. Of course I'm skeptical. Uh, you know, if I wasn't skeptical, I wouldn't be good as a
00:37:41.440 scientist. Exactly. And, uh, again, you and I are getting, uh, getting along perfectly. Uh, this,
00:37:50.060 I, I want everyone, uh, in this country to be skeptical, uh, skeptical of their news choices,
00:37:56.520 skeptical of the, uh, of what is being presented. Uh, and by the way, if there is anyone, and I doubt
00:38:03.320 this doctor, but if there's anyone in our, uh, audience, uh, for the show who doesn't know,
00:38:09.420 uh, who Dr. McCullough was referring to when he said a person representing himself as science,
00:38:15.300 that would be the one, the only Dr. Fauci who has, uh, become ubiquitous, uh, and, uh, insatiable
00:38:25.180 in his, uh, public appearances, uh, and certainly no less arrogant, uh, in his opinion of who he is
00:38:33.140 and what he's doing. Uh, a remarkable, uh, well, a remarkable circumstance. Doctor, as we wrap up
00:38:41.820 here, I think that there's a great public service to be done. Uh, if, if you would, uh, uh, share with
00:38:47.760 our, our listeners, your website and how they can, uh, follow you, I think that's, uh, very important
00:38:54.080 if you would, uh, share that with them now. Sure. Thanks. Uh, this year I was really honored, uh, to
00:39:00.400 join the team at America Out Loud Talk Radio. So I, I started a show called the McCullough Report and
00:39:06.340 every week it is a report similar to this where I give critical updates. Uh, one of the things America
00:39:12.480 knows is that I will be true to the citation. So everything I state, uh, will have a citation. I
00:39:17.940 always try to localize it by first author. And, uh, so what these are, everything I've said is
00:39:22.780 readily identifiable on, uh, internet and there's no opinion. So people have made a big deal about
00:39:29.880 information or misinformation. I said, it's, it's neither. It's basically just the data. You, you
00:39:33.800 decide, uh, take a look at it. And so America Out Loud Talk Radio, the McCullough Report for the key
00:39:39.800 treatment guides, lists of treating doctors, uh, several different key websites. One is the
00:39:45.280 Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. That group has been around since 1943. They were
00:39:50.200 the first ones to endorse early treatment, aapsonline.org. Uh, one for advocacy on vaccine
00:39:56.720 safety and efficacy and early treatment is the Truth for Health Foundation, truthforhealth.org.
00:40:02.780 And then there are two, uh, active national, uh, treating services. One's called the American
00:40:08.880 Frontline Doctors, uh, AFLDS, and the other one's called the Frontline Critical Care Consortium,
00:40:14.400 FLCC.net. And through them, you can see linkages to all the other national telemedicine services and
00:40:20.420 regional telemedicine services. Uh, more and more clinical doctors are getting on board. It was
00:40:25.420 a bit of a learning curve for doctors to pick up the hang of how to do this by the phone and to be
00:40:30.340 quick and get treatment, uh, do risk stratification and get treatment to patients, but it is working.
00:40:35.200 Uh, I can tell you right now, the hospitals are not overloaded. I was in the hospital yesterday.
00:40:40.100 Things are very calm, very manageable. Uh, I hope we can get to the point of zero hospitalization,
00:40:46.740 zero deaths. We're still going to have some COVID. It's just that it's going to be the confluence of
00:40:50.960 all of our strategies working together to get us through the pandemic.
00:40:55.880 Doctor, it's, it's been very instructive. And, uh, while my comprehension level, uh,
00:41:01.800 it will, it would disappoint you. I I'm, I'm thrilled that I understood as much as I did of
00:41:08.540 what you, uh, uh, you've said you were crystal clear. Uh, but I love trying to understand all of
00:41:15.080 the medical terms. Uh, and I have to say thank you for not, not speaking down to us, uh, straight up
00:41:21.740 stuff. And that's exactly what this audience demands. So, uh, we're deeply appreciative. We'll
00:41:27.080 be putting out all of that information, uh, as well on our social media, uh, and getting it to our
00:41:32.960 audience. Uh, so there everyone has it. I hope you'll come back soon. Enjoy talking with you. I
00:41:38.320 want to thank you for everything you're doing for enlarging the, uh, the body of public knowledge
00:41:43.440 about this, uh, disease, this pandemic, uh, its treatment, uh, and, uh, and, and so much more. Uh,
00:41:51.660 you're a great American and thank you so much, Dr. Peter McCullough. Thank you. Thank you. And we
00:41:58.500 will continue in just one moment. Please stay with us for more of the great America show.
00:42:05.060 There are days in this halcyon era of the Biden presidency that we're all surely tempted to think
00:42:13.460 one day or the next reason will surely ultimately prevail that president Biden will suddenly come to
00:42:21.220 his senses and stop the Marxist madness, but instead his administration starts a new initiative
00:42:28.340 or an order that is not only divisive, but destructive and never has any American president
00:42:35.440 given greater power to the unelected permanent bureaucracy. The Biden food and drug administration
00:42:42.540 is dropping restrictions against the abortion pill. That's right. You heard me right. Now the federal
00:42:50.680 drug administration will no longer require that a woman visit a hospital, a clinic, or a doctor.
00:42:57.660 Now women can order an abortion pill online. Pro-abortion groups cheered the Biden decision.
00:43:06.220 Pro-life advocates, of course, are simply stunned in disbelief and furious. Joining us is one of the
00:43:13.700 great defenders of life in this country and committed opponent of abortion and most assuredly opponent of
00:43:19.840 on-demand online abortion. Senior pastor of the First Baptist Church of Dallas, Pastor Robert Jeffress.
00:43:28.800 Pastor, great to have you with us. I have to say this was a stunning and stealthy decision taken by the
00:43:37.460 Biden administration, wasn't it?
00:43:39.820 It was, Lou, but it was right in line with their pro-abortion policy. And this is just one more reason.
00:43:46.040 Several weeks ago to our congregation, I said, the Biden administration is the ungodliest administration
00:43:52.780 in the history of the United States. If you don't have to go to a hospital, you don't realize perhaps
00:43:57.960 exactly what you're doing. You think you're killing your child in private, but there is no killing of a
00:44:03.620 child in private. Even if no one else sees it, God sees it. And this pill does nothing. It's not
00:44:09.500 removing a biological blob from a woman. It's removing a life created by God. And this is pure
00:44:16.800 evil. There's no other way to categorize it.
00:44:20.580 This, that this got this far and that suddenly the FDA, which is certainly to be protective of life as
00:44:30.300 its primary mission, uh, is suddenly involved in abortion, uh, in a way that I think is, it's frankly,
00:44:40.340 it's, it's, it's backhanded. Uh, it's being done, uh, in the darkness of, uh, the corridors of
00:44:48.920 Congress and the Senate, uh, the, the people we elected aren't making these decisions. This is a
00:44:56.380 unilateral fiat coming from the president of the United States. Absolutely Lou. And it just shows
00:45:03.720 how Joe Biden and his ungodly policies have infiltrated and corrupted every agency of
00:45:10.380 government, including the FDA. But I want to give some good news here amidst all of this. I really
00:45:16.880 do think that the Supreme court is on the precipice of sharply curbing, if not completely overturning
00:45:25.280 Roe v. Wade. And I think that will have a dramatic effect, even on this decision.
00:45:30.820 Uh, and your optimism is based on the arguments in the, uh, in the Dobbs case in which, uh,
00:45:37.600 no relation, by the way, I should point out, uh, the Dobbs case in which, uh, you expressed early on,
00:45:44.580 uh, the thought, uh, and the hope, uh, that it would be an even stronger, uh, initiative than the Texas,
00:45:53.580 uh, the Texas law. Right. I think the Dobbs, uh, case is a stronger case because it isn't in
00:46:00.540 so to speak tainted by this enforcement procedure that even some conservatives have questions about
00:46:06.840 whether you want to empower private citizens to go after other citizens. You saw Gavin Newsom saying
00:46:13.160 they're going to use that same tactic to go after gun owners. So I think the tactic of enforcement is
00:46:19.020 questionable in the Texas case, but I appreciate governor Abbott trying to protect life. I think
00:46:24.960 the Dobbs case is a stronger case and more likely one that's to be a win for the pro-life group.
00:46:30.900 Now, I would love to be able to say, pastor, you and I agree on so much, but I, I am so leery
00:46:36.980 of this Supreme court, this Supreme court, uh, chief justice. Uh, I am, I just can't find that,
00:46:45.420 uh, uh, confidence that you express because, uh, frankly, uh, John Roberts, uh, is a liberal
00:46:53.260 pretending to be a conservative, at least during his confirmation. We have seen what he is and what
00:47:01.460 he is, is a sneak thief. Well, in my vote counting, I'm not counting on John Roberts, but I think again,
00:47:10.440 because of what president Trump has done and appointing these three solidly conservative
00:47:15.980 pro-life justices, I'm optimistic that there's going to be some curbing of abortion, uh, if not
00:47:23.640 an outright, uh, outright overturn of Roe v. Wade. And I mean, in the past, the Supreme court has never
00:47:29.940 had the courage to lead public opinion. They put their collective fingers in the air and see which
00:47:36.060 way the wind is blowing, but maybe this time that will be different. Well, let's hope so, because
00:47:42.060 it's awful to think of the lives that have been taken in the name of, uh, uh, choice, uh, since,
00:47:50.940 uh, Roe v. Wade. Uh, it's, uh, I wonder how we will look back, how historians will look back on this
00:47:57.440 period, uh, in American history. It is truly a terrible thing to contemplate. Uh, let, let's turn
00:48:06.040 turn to, uh, right now. I also, uh, a fascinating study that just came out from the Pew Research
00:48:12.480 Center. Three in 10 U.S. adults are now religiously unaffiliated and the number of self-identified
00:48:20.460 Christians has fallen significantly from just a decade ago. Uh, what do you think is transpiring?
00:48:27.600 Lou, I think there are a number of factors at play here. Certainly the secularization of our country,
00:48:32.920 the false idea. You can be good without God, the failure of parents to pass along their faith to
00:48:38.760 their children. But I don't think we ought to underestimate the role that two years of isolation
00:48:44.480 and separation from churches during this pandemic has caused the American people. Christianity is
00:48:52.660 something that's best practiced in the company of others. And I think this isolation we've gone
00:48:58.340 through has really played a negative role in the spiritual health of Americans. Well, the spiritual
00:49:04.460 health of Americans, it's, it is, there has been so much, uh, exploitation of the crisis that is and was
00:49:14.360 COVID. And now here we go again with the left looking to every possibility, this administration
00:49:21.380 looking for every opportunity to, to, to exert what is simply leftist authoritarianism, wanting to shut
00:49:31.060 down, uh, all gatherings, uh, to demand vaccinations, uh, as a right of the state, rather than a matter of
00:49:39.940 choice, of course, uh, for, for families and for their, uh, for children in school. Uh, it's very difficult
00:49:47.840 to rationalize what is happening because of the fact that we have a left wing president in office,
00:49:54.860 rather than say a, uh, uh, a moderate like, uh, uh, president Donald Trump. And I say that only with
00:50:03.680 a partial tongue in cheek. Well, I think we saw exactly what the left's game plan was during the
00:50:12.080 last shutdowns. I mean, if they were going to treat everyone equally, that would be one thing,
00:50:16.900 but we saw the left and States like New York and California arguing for casinos being open and
00:50:24.100 stores being open, but shutting down churches. And, you know, the fact is there is no constitutional
00:50:29.980 right for a casino to be open, but there is something called the first amendment that prohibits
00:50:36.200 government from interfering with places of worship. So I have no confidence that if shutdowns begin,
00:50:42.340 they're going to be equitably distributed. I think they're coming after churches like
00:50:46.800 they always do. And coming after churches and all of us, uh, apparently as a, a variant that is even
00:50:55.040 more transmissible, more contagious than Delta or the original so-called COVID-19 China virus.
00:51:02.840 Uh, how concerned are you that this, this variant, uh, Omicron will be even more destructive of rights
00:51:12.400 and liberties and the rights of Americans to assemble, uh, in, in their churches, synagogues,
00:51:20.940 uh, and places of worship? Well, I'm afraid it could be used as a tool, uh, to do just that. And look,
00:51:27.600 Lou, we've been very clear and you and I've been honest with each other. I mean, I believe that COVID
00:51:32.940 was a real problem and we'd lost real, uh, church members, uh, who died because of COVID. I've, uh,
00:51:39.660 encouraged people to be vaccinated. I'm vaccinated and so forth, but I do think it can be used as a
00:51:46.980 tool of control by government and we've already seen it happen. I wish everybody would get vaccinated,
00:51:52.660 would choose to get vaccinated so that we could move past this thing and not give the government
00:51:58.040 a false excuse to limit our freedom. Yeah. I, I would just hope that every American would
00:52:04.660 respect the right of, uh, their fellow citizens to make their choices and that government, instead
00:52:11.420 of mandating and telling people what to do as if they were, uh, cattle rather than citizens, uh, would,
00:52:19.120 uh, educate all Americans, uh, try to persuade, uh, on policy rather than demand as an
00:52:27.980 authoritarian government would. Uh, and then I agree with you. Uh, I, you know, we're my wife and
00:52:34.160 I are vaccinated. We are, uh, we're boosterized, uh, but, uh, you know, it's every citizen's right.
00:52:41.760 And I really think that has to be, we can't rationalize of when we have rights and when we
00:52:48.180 don't. Uh, and I think it's just such a, uh, if you will, that old cliche, such a slippery,
00:52:53.920 slippery slope of which there are so many in modern, modern, uh, American life. Let, let's turn
00:53:01.260 to, uh, if we may, you, uh, your event with, uh, President Trump, uh, and having, uh, the former
00:53:09.240 president of the United States, uh, in your congregation, in your church, uh, your emotions,
00:53:14.420 your thoughts. Well, we were so honored that President Trump chose to come and worship with
00:53:18.980 us on what we call, uh, Christmas Sunday, this past Sunday, which the whole theme is
00:53:23.640 Christmas. My message was about Christmas and, uh, you know, the President Trump's love
00:53:28.540 for Christmas and understanding of the importance of it, uh, is well known, uh, among people.
00:53:34.620 And, uh, you know, during his tenure in office, uh, he invited me two or three times at the
00:53:39.720 White House Christmas parties to come up and share about the real meaning of Christmas and
00:53:44.540 to lead in prayer. And, uh, I thought since he was visiting our house of worship, I would
00:53:49.700 invite him to do the same at the end of the service. And so we were glad to have him offer
00:53:54.080 a Christmas greeting.
00:53:55.940 And your sermon on what this world would look like, were there no Christmas, uh, that's a
00:54:03.040 provocative, uh, premise. Uh, and it's also one that, that causes, uh, everyone who is
00:54:10.720 religious to, to pause and think, you know, the, of the foundation of Christianity, it's
00:54:16.820 true meaning. Give us what you think, uh, is the importance of the, of the, of the hypothetical.
00:54:23.780 Well, if there were no Christmas, just think about it. We'd have to throw out our calendars
00:54:28.140 to begin with. I mean, we're about to enter 2022. Well, 2022 years from what? Well, it's
00:54:35.380 all centered around the birth of Christ. I mean, would you, would lose great works of
00:54:40.120 architecture like Notre Dame or great works of art, like the Sistine Chapel. There'd be
00:54:45.580 no great music from Bach or Beethoven who were Christians. Uh, we would have these great
00:54:51.540 educational institutions like Harvard, Yale, and Brown that were originally founded as
00:54:56.660 Christian schools. There'd be no, uh, great benevolent organizations like the Red Cross or
00:55:02.140 the Salvation Army that were Christian organizations in the name of Christ. If there were no
00:55:08.160 Christmas or Christmas would be the third, be no Jesus Christ who paid the penalty for our
00:55:13.560 sin and conquered death for us so that we have hope beyond the grave. I mean, the thought of
00:55:18.960 no Christmas is really appalling, but the good news is there is a Christmas and that's what
00:55:25.520 we gladly separate, celebrate this coming week.
00:55:28.620 Well, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's a wonderful, uh, uh, explanation and, uh, as I expect, uh, and I
00:55:37.380 thank you for being as, uh, as a pastor provocative and a great tutor as well. Uh, pastor, we appreciate
00:55:44.080 you being with us and thank you so much for, uh, taking time.
00:55:48.020 Well, thank you, Lou, and I hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas.
00:55:51.320 Thank you, and to your family as well. Pastor Robert Jeffress here on The Great America Show,
00:55:58.280 and I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, happiest holidays, and Happy New Year. Thanks for being with us.