TOUGH TIME FOR TRUTH
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Transcript
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Hello, everybody. I'm Lou Dobbs. Welcome to The Great America Show. Thanks for being with us.
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It's been a tough week for the Republicans. The Lankford-Schumer-McConnell immigration bill,
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dead on arrival and the impeachment of the world's leading enabler of drug and sex trafficking,
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failed. By a vote of 216 to 214, Congressman Ken Buck, Tom McClintock and Mike Gallagher.
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Those three men are a disgrace to the country. They should be ashamed of themselves.
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They aligned themselves with sex and drug traffickers that Mayorkas has refused to shut
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down. Speaker Mike Johnson later was asked about whether impeachment of Mayorkas will be brought
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back. On impeachment, last night was a setback, but democracy is messy. We live in a time of divided
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government. We have a razor thin margin here and every vote counts. Sometimes when you're counting
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votes and people show up when they're not expected to be in the building, it changes the equation.
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But listen, we have a duty and a responsibility to take care of this issue. We have to hold
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the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security accountable. Mayorkas needs to be held
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accountable. The Biden administration needs to be held accountable. And we will pass those articles
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of impeachment. We'll do it on the next round. So Johnson is confident that it'll pass on the
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next vote. And Senator Lankford, who's responsible for that horrendous amnesty bill, says even if Johnson
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passes the impeachment, it'll be dead on arrival in the Senate. It'll fail in the Senate.
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If I can use the House term, it'll be dead on arrival when it comes over. But it'll still be
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the same policy. Even if Mayorkas left, we're going to have the same result because we've got
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the same president who's driving the policy just like we did under Trump. Well, that's one sorry
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rhino, that Lankford fella. And rhino Romney McDaniel will reportedly step down from the RNC in the coming
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weeks. McDaniel to resign after the South Carolina primary. Our guest today is Kurt Olson, conservative
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attorney, a great legal mind, a man who has his finger on the pulse of the body politic as well.
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Kurt, great to have you with us. There's a lot to take up here. But I'd like to start with the
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Georgia trial in which Judge Amy Totenberg, federal judge Amy Totenberg, is deliberating
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a path toward a verdict in the Curling v. Raffensperger case on electronic voting machines.
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Well, closing arguments, Lou, and it's great to be with you, by the way, closing arguments
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in Curling were held on Thursday. The judge now has all of the evidence, has taken it under
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advisement. I suspect it could be at least several weeks before a ruling is issued. The interesting
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aspect of Curling was how one of the plaintiff's groups bent over backwards to limit the vulnerabilities
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with the machines and the issues therein to just what are called ballot marking devices.
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These are touchscreen voting machines where there is not a paper ballot that is hand-filled out and
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then tabulated. And so that system is only used statewide in Georgia. And that particular plaintiff
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group bent over backwards to not say anything about the tabulators, which is a device that reads paper
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ballots, takes an image, tabulates the vote, and then gives the result. And tabulators are a component
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that is extremely vulnerable to manipulation and to rigging an election. So it was odd that one of the
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plaintiffs' groups tried to avoid that. But Garland Favorito, voter GA, and Ricardo Davis, the plaintiff
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there, with their counsel, David Oles, made great headway in upsetting those plans to avoid discussions
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about the tabulators and just brought forward tremendous evidence of how the tabulators can be
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used to manipulate elections. And also, importantly, that 2020 was affected by such manipulation. And that is
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something I think the court and the other plaintiff's group were trying to avoid.
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We know, at least circumstantially, by inference that the powers that be do not want this case
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to move forward to a conclusion that will have significant impact. They have been, for example,
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it's one of the few cases I've ever seen where Curlin B. Raffensperger, an appellate court, has already
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decided that the defendant in the case, the state and the secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger,
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doesn't have to be in a trial. Because he's in such a high office with the thinking of the circuit
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court. That's in and of itself is bizarre. The trial judge, in this case, it's a bench trial. There's no
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jury. And she put the leading expert witnesses study of the vulnerability and the anomalies of these
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voting machines, put his research and study and conclusions under seal for two years.
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This doesn't bode well for a decision based on the evidence and, if you will, a high level of integrity.
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Well, no, it doesn't. I mean, when you look at the use of electronic voting machines
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and the fact that every step of the way, there have been efforts by the voting machine companies
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and election officials to stop anybody from peeking inside, to know what goes on. And then you have to
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ask yourself why. We, for 200 years, we had hand counted paper ballots. It was done in the open.
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What is so secret that we can't know how the voting machines actually process the votes?
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And so if there was nothing to be concerned about, and it's always there, the mantra is basically
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trust us. It's EAC certified. We do logic and accuracy tests. We do risk limiting audits and so
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forth. So just trust us. And every time something pops up,
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they had like the interim glitch where 6,000 votes were flipped from Trump to Biden in 2020.
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It always is a an administrative error or something like that.
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All right. It's never a full investigation. So the question is, what are they trying to hide?
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Well, it is interesting to me that not only are they trying to hide it, they're trying to at the same
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time save their industry by through obfuscation. And the trial court seems seem to be and I'm talking
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state courts and federal courts seem to affix themselves to the fortunes of the electronic voting
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companies. I don't know if I don't know the degree to which there is any crooked manipulation going on.
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But I do know this. What I was asking for in 2020 was that a strong, vast investigation,
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because we had so many questions, common sense questions like what were they doing in Wayne County,
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putting up boards around the the election counting section of what, what, what the heck happened to
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to those all those votes in Georgia? And what was it two in the morning? I can't remember what time it was.
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But yeah, and suddenly, you know, the votes changed magically. And and everyone wanted to poop who
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that is, if you know, there were there were some sort of sophisticated level of knowledge about this
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that we just simply couldn't get to. By the way, it turns out they were right. They're hiding
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everything about those machines. And now we have we have Halderman, Alex Halderman, the professor from
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University of Michigan, actually, in a matter of seconds, demonstrating that the machines can be hacked
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in the courtroom. He did it in the courtroom. They can be hacked. They can be manipulated,
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changing both candidate names and votes and vote totals. I mean, how do they how did they survive that?
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Well, they're going to survive it by bobbing and weaving, I think, like they always do.
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And so if you look at Professor Halder, and yes, he demonstrated how easy it is to hack into a machine
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or these ballot marking devices. Again, he limited to the BMDs, not to tabulate. But his report inspired
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CISA belatedly to come out with an advisory in June of 2022, where they highlighted nine critical
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vulnerabilities. But here's what they said. There's no evidence that any of these vulnerabilities were
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exploited. Right, right. But the question is, they never looked. Exactly.
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They never looked. And so this is the bob and weave that I mentioned earlier.
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Kurt, I want to take that up. We got a quick break here. We're coming right back. We're talking with
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Kurt Olson, a former SEAL and now a trial attorney. And by the way, when you say cause of action around
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him, you better understand you'll get one or the other. We're coming right back.
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Lou Dobbs here. I'm delighted to let you all know that the program Lou Dobbs tonight has returned to
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the air. That's right. Lou Dobbs tonight is back. We're live each and every weeknight at 7 p.m.
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Eastern and 6 p.m. Central on rumble.com slash Lou Dobbs. That's rumble.com slash Lou Dobbs.
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I hope you'll be joining us for Lou Dobbs tonight as our fight to save this country has only begun.
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We're back now. We're talking with Kurt Olson, conservative attorney, as I said, former U.S. Navy SEAL.
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Kurt, as we broke for break there, you were talking about, in effect, a shell game that's
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played by the various parties. Is there an opportunity here to break the shell game to
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actually get down to what is inside those machines and make it known to the voting public so that they
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understand the complete depth of concern on the part of those who want a electoral system of great
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integrity? I think there is, because regardless, curling has broken the log jam that says, you know,
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2020 was the most secure election in history or that these machines are secure and there's nothing to
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see here. So even though the case was focused on the ballot marking devices, it shows that, yes,
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you can hack into these machines easily. And I think it advances public awareness that these machines
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should not be used to hold our most precious right to vote.
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Kurt Olson- And yet, here we are, the whole country, it seems, it's not the whole country,
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but it seems the whole country, is using these electronic voting machines. And when I think about
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this, I mean, I think of, you know, the 2001 Space Odyssey, and not how, but rather the monolith,
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as everybody, you know, is it draws everyone's attention into the movie. It's a black box. It's a,
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it might as well be a monolith, because it's impenetrable. It is, it evades any inspection.
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And we really don't know the purpose, but we know what we're supposed to do. And that is
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is genuflect in its presence, and take whatever follows, you know, as gospel. This is, this is a
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mindless way for a country, a nation, a superpower, in point of fact, to vote. Okay, we'll just take
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your word for it. Where else in our society do we just take somebody's word for something?
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Kurt Olson- Well, not only that, but, you know, there are countries that refuse to use
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electronic voting machines, such as Taiwan, which just recently held an election without
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voting machines. And the same thing in France, and federal elections in Canada do not use
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electronic voting machines for all the reasons, you know, that we're talking about.
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And, and wondering why, how is it we got to this point, right now, with Curling v. Raffensperger,
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for the first time, watching a, an expert manipulate the machine, hack the machine,
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which was, we were told by all of the voting companies, that these machines are not hackable,
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they're not available to the internet, there is no way there can be any communication,
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all of this. And in one, one showing, Professor Haldeman demonstrated that it was all a fiction,
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and that they weren't protected. And they're, and they're in great need of protection, because
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they can't even tell if it's been exploited, no matter what the cyber security and infrastructure
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agency said, it's pure pablum that they're putting out. It's a second run of telling the truth. And,
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and, and, and Sypha is, Sypha has just whipped at both.
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Yeah, no, I mean, that's true. I mean, there's, so, first of all, there's nothing magical about these
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voting machines, they use, you know, off the shelf components that are made in China and elsewhere,
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their software is Windows based software. Often it, there's nothing magical about it. I mean,
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we hear time and time again, of all these other electronic systems, not voting systems,
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but these electronic systems being hacked. So, for example, you know, on December 15, 2020,
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just a month after the election, we had the largest breach called solar winds, right, that penetrated
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over 15,000 companies and government agencies. And so there's nothing magical about voting machines.
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All computers can be hacked. And here's, here's did what came out in curly one.
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Okay, just interject. Sure. That was a, a Microsoft product that was vulnerable. Is that right?
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It was a software manufactured by, by a company called solar winds, but it used a Windows based system.
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Exactly. Right. Now, but it came out in curling, for example, that the machines, you know,
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we're all told that they're not online, no connection to the internet. Well, no,
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it was shown in curling that those machines are set up for wireless access.
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So this is Bernard that there is no connection to the internet and, you know, or, you know, outside,
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outside entities was shown in curling to not be accurate. Well, don't they all, and I understand that it's
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very difficult to have considerable technology, technological knowledge. If you're a county clerk
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and you're running the elections, whomever you may be associated with it, or the secretary of state,
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for that matter, taking care of the election for the whole state. There's no way these folks are going
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to be technologically so adroit. So they seek protection, do they not? The guarantees of the
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integrity of these machines, do they have such a guarantee or not? They have the facade of guarantees.
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Even Professor Haldeman testified under oath that he could defeat risk limiting audits and logic and
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accuracy tests. Those two tests are designed supposedly to give the public confidence that
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the machines are accurately reading and tabulating votes, and they can be easily defeated. And as
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Professor Haldeman testified as such. And so, when you talk about election officials not understanding
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the complexity of these machines, that makes the point. If the election officials don't understand how
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they work, why should we be using them to conduct our elections? Because Dominion actually provides,
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for example, employees on site in many jurisdictions to help run the elections because the election
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officials don't have the skills. Right. That is a very loud point, frankly. That should reverberate across
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the country, what you just said. And the more we learn about these machines, the more we learn about
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the vulnerabilities, which are now demonstrated, proved in court. And there is no response. There's
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been no reasonable response. As far as I know, there was some rebuttal in the courtroom in Curling v.
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Raffensperger down in Atlanta, Georgia. But it was all, in my opinion, it was an exchange of
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legal points and procedure and trying to score rhetorical points more than actually bring forward
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knowledge that would be helpful. Let's go to where we go from here. Amy Totenberg, the judge,
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is a highly experienced federal judge. She is also considered very left wing. I'm going to ask you,
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when we come back, what you think of the judge here, what you think of the prospects to reveal enough
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to cause pause in the state of Georgia with those voting machines before the next election.
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We're talking with Kurt Olson, and we'll be right back.
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We're back now talking with Kurt Olson. And Kurt, I want to talk to you about the prospects and the
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judge, Judge Totenberg. But I also want to get to just two quick points, if I may,
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the adverse decision by the appellate court on presidential immunity. Your reaction?
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I think that the decision by the D.C. Circuit is a continuation of the establishment's efforts to
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get rid of President Trump. And that started back in 2015 when he announced his candidacy,
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continued through the FBI lying to the FISA court and unlawfully spying on his campaign. And then when
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he was president, the Russia hoax, Bill Barr in the 2020 election, telling US attorneys to stand down and
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not investigate election fraud. I think that this is just another, it's a continuation of that effort. I
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think the decision is wrong. They have stayed their opinion pending an appeal by President Trump's
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attorneys to the US Supreme Court. But what that opinion does is it basically says that a President
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who is conducting official duties and, you know, the President has a duty, if he has evidence that
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elections are being subverted, to follow that. But the D.C. Circuit basically, you know, repeated the trope
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that Trump spread false claims about the November 2020 election and that he tried to block the
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the certification on January 6th, both of which are demonstrably untrue.
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And that trial, as you point out, is headed toward the Supreme Court for the next round. And
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there are two possibilities. One, they refuse to hear the appeal, which I think would create,
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to say the least, a strong reaction from the body politic, without question. And the other is taking
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it up and relying on this nonsense about, you know, the Constitution and their specific readings and so
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forethought, whether it be on immunity, whether it be on the ballot and whether or not it can move forward.
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It looks straightforward to me. He is not an insurrectionist and he has immunity. How in the
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world could there be any other reasonable reading of the Constitution?
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Well, nobody, I don't believe anybody in this country has ever been charged with insurrection to
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begin, not even the January 6th protesters. So they throw out that term, but which has a precise
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legal connotation, but nobody's been charged with that. And, you know, the president, they tried to
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impeach and convict him for the events of January 6th and he was acquitted in the Senate. And so how can
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a, you know, an appellate court, uh, without pursuing a criminal trial or, you know, weighing evidence
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come to their own conclusion that the president's guilty of insurrection that would bar him from
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the ballot under the 14th amendment is beyond me. Yeah. It's, it's beyond any reason. It's beyond
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anything this country's ever, uh, even thought of dabbling in such far-fetched nonsense. Uh, but it
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tells you, and I think they've gone too far this time. I, I think this is all such a, uh, such a
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righteous abuse of power that I don't think anybody can ignore it. Uh, let's the Supreme Court deciding
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on that ballot in Colorado tomorrow. What do you think happens? Oh, I don't think that the Supreme
00:23:32.320
Court is not going to decide. They're going to argue it. Right. They're going to argue, but I cannot
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believe that the Supreme Court would, uh, affirm that decision. I just, it has no basis in law. I,
00:23:45.440
I would be shocked if this is not a nine to zero reversal. Yeah. You know, I'm shocked that there
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was a five to four decision out of the Supreme Court that aligned them with, uh, the Biden regime,
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uh, the Marxist Dems who managed this puppet president, and of course, the Mexican drug cartels.
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Uh, that is one of the most ridiculous, and I certainly found it shocking decision, uh,
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that I could have imagined coming out of that. All right. I wouldn't disagree with you on that.
00:24:16.320
And what is interesting is that Texas openly defied that order, said, we're going to protect the board.
00:24:22.480
And so that, that is the dangerousness when the court starts treading into uncharted territory and,
00:24:29.520
and political territory as well. For example, with Trump, their credibility
00:24:34.640
rests on people obeying what they say. They don't have an enforcement mechanism. And so,
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you know, there is a concept of judicial restraint where they stay out of political, uh, fights and
00:24:48.240
things like that, which of course, their charges against the president are. It's a political battle
00:24:53.840
between the deep state and the president. Yeah. And they're,
00:24:57.040
uh, excuse me. I mean, they're, they're woefully short of staying out of the political battles.
00:25:04.400
They now have been told to go to hell by the Biden regime on affirmative action. They've been told to
00:25:09.600
go to hell on his plan to forgive student loan debt. The list goes on. It's quite a long list where
00:25:17.120
they've overstepped, uh, the Biden regime's abuse of power. Uh, and, uh, in this instance,
00:25:24.560
in Texas, thank God for Greg Abbott and the, uh, and the, his Republican government, because otherwise
00:25:31.440
this thing would be, uh, we could be on a very serious, a quick slope, uh, to, to anarchy and
00:25:39.440
chaos on that border. So let's get back to, to the issue at hand and that is Totenberg, Judge Totenberg.
00:25:48.400
Uh, she's got, it seems to me she's looking for cover because otherwise the facts are obvious and
00:25:53.440
out in front of everyone. Uh, your thoughts on what transpires? Well, first we, we, we know that
00:26:01.280
this case began actually in 2017. And so it's been before the court for over six years.
00:26:09.840
And in 2019 is when Georgia made the contract to get Dominion machines. And that just continued,
00:26:15.920
uh, under the guise of that system. And a month before the 2020 elections, Judge Totenberg,
00:26:22.960
in a very well-reasoned 150 page opinion, came out and a discredited the secretary of state's
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experts and any experts by Dominion that were offered credited the plaintiffs and said, look,
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it's not a question of if these machines will be used to manipulate an election. And I'm paraphrasing.
00:26:43.760
It's just a question of when. And so she came down strongly on the side that these machines are
00:26:52.320
open to manipulation. The reason why she didn't grant the injunction that is because she said it
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was too close to the election. It's how the heck could that be the consideration? I mean,
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they're going to be crooked. Uh, and if they're crooked, you shouldn't use them. And if, you know,
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it's like the old saying, uh, you know, do you know, uh, you know, bill that the only poker game
00:27:17.920
in town is crooked. You shouldn't play. He says, yeah, but it's the only poker game. I mean,
00:27:23.120
that's where we are with this. It's that ludicrous.
00:27:25.200
Well, there is a doctrine. It's called the Purcell doctrine that arises out of a Supreme Court case
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out of that out of the same name that you can't make changes in election laws too close to an
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election. Now, what's too close, of course, is in the eye of the beholder. But, you know,
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so 2020 happened. We've learned a lot since 2020. I mean, the past three years, we have learned
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so much about the machines and other areas, whether it's mail in ballots and chain of custody and the like.
00:27:52.880
And so it's not as if the three years have been spent in vain. And part of this is educating the
00:28:00.640
public. And that's exactly what this trial did. What the court will do. I'm not sure. I mean,
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it is a momentous decision. And regardless of what happens, it will be appealed that much.
00:28:15.200
I'm confident of. Yeah. And by the way, if it's appealed by either party, I don't know what
00:28:21.120
the result will be. But I do know I do know this, that it's not the people who really need to be
00:28:26.240
educated here. It is those county clerks. It is the Congress of the United States. This president,
00:28:33.680
if he had the next president, if you will. But these judges to suggest you go ahead with a crooked
00:28:40.720
election because you've got a machine that is everything that they said it wasn't. And no one can
00:28:47.280
trust the outcome. So what you know, one of the I read all the comments of folks who write in when
00:28:54.320
we're on the air or whether it's, you know, the podcast TV or social media. The reality is
00:29:04.720
one guy said it and got said this. And I think it's exactly right. What does a voting machine have to do
00:29:11.040
besides add? It's got one thing. Simply add. And why is that such a complicated deal? Why do we need
00:29:20.640
sophisticated software? The truth is you can sit there with a machine and the county clerk talking
00:29:26.160
away and make sure it all runs together. We've overcomplicated something that is really very
00:29:34.560
simple. No, I don't think that's by accident. I think transparency is being used to cover up
00:29:43.760
voting machines that are being used to manipulate elections. I think that lack of transparency and
00:29:48.720
complexity is planned. And that's that is part of the system in which they can cover up manipulation in
00:29:58.400
elections. And there are a number of plaintiffs and there really seem to be a lot of plaintiff defendants
00:30:06.320
as well, but unspoken. It seems like this is an industry wide defense. It is an industry wide concern
00:30:16.000
because right now voting machines hang on the judgment, the verdict of one federal district court
00:30:22.320
judge, Amy Totenberg. As we wrap up here, we're out of time. Which way does she rule? Best judge?
00:30:30.400
I'm not going to take that. I honestly don't know. I think you can look at what is presented.
00:30:38.560
She clearly recognizes that these machines should not be used. She has said as much. Whether she will say
00:30:47.280
that that violates the Constitution under the claims that were brought, I would hope that she
00:30:56.320
rules that they shouldn't be used. But judges have gone the other way from what I think they should do
00:31:04.480
many times in recent years. So yeah, who knows? You know, I've got a funny feeling. I haven't been in
00:31:10.880
the courtroom. We've had very good reporting from that courtroom. Amber Conner did a wonderful job for us.
00:31:21.760
I have a picture of Amy Totenberg right now, left wing as she is, liberal as she is. I don't think
00:31:28.880
she can get by that. I think it's 135 to 150 pages that she wrote in making the decision to go to trial.
00:31:35.280
It was fresh in its honesty. I think she rules against Georgia and the voting machines. That's
00:31:46.800
not me just hoping. I really think she has that much integrity. I may have to eat those words.
00:31:52.880
But I think there may be one, we know there's more than one honest judge in the federal system.
00:31:58.240
I think she certainly will be among them. I hope so.
00:32:02.080
Colonel Olson, as always, great to talk with you. Thanks for being here. We appreciate you so much.
00:32:06.960
God bless. God bless you, Lou. Thank you very much.
00:32:09.920
Thanks, everybody, for being with us today. Join us here tomorrow and watch, if you will,
00:32:15.120
Lou Dobbs tonight, each and every weeknight on Rumble, Twitter, Frank's Speech at 7 p.m. Eastern,
00:32:21.520
6 p.m. Central. Follow me on Twitter and True Social as well at Lou Dobbs.
00:32:26.720
Thank you, everybody, for being with us. God bless you, and may God bless America.