The Great America Show - WHISPER WHEN YOU SAY CHINA

00:00:00.000 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Great America podcast with Lou Dobbs, always in the fight for

00:00:05.400 truth, justice, and yes, our American way of life. And now here he is, the Peabody award-winning

00:00:11.560 voice of truth, the great Lou Dobbs. Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Lou Dobbs podcast,

00:00:17.920 the Great America show. That's right, great America. I believe America is great. It has

00:00:24.820 been and always will be. Here, you and I will hear the thinking of elected officials and politicians.

00:00:31.880 This podcast will take account of both political parties and do its best to keep America great.

00:00:39.220 I've always believed that education is the single strongest force for equality in our society.

00:00:45.320 We'll hear from educators, parents, teachers, even from politicians and academics who are in the fight

00:00:51.640 to ensure, of course, the best opportunities for all Americans. And we're here to ensure that all

00:00:58.940 Americans have an equal and square shot at the American dream. We'll focus on the issues and

00:01:05.980 events that matter most to working Americans, small business owners, the American family,

00:01:11.580 and the governance of our great nation. I'm one of the millions and millions of Americans who's had

00:01:18.220 the good fortune to live the American dream. Both my parents worked and taught me the value of hard

00:01:24.400 work, to respect anyone who worked, no matter their job or their pay, and to be grateful for all that

00:01:32.100 America has afforded generations of Americans, opportunity for education and work and safety for

00:01:38.800 their families and security for this nation. To be grateful for our freedom, our individual liberties,

00:01:46.200 the freedom to fulfill our dreams to succeed. We sometimes stumble, we sometimes fail, but we

00:01:53.120 always strive to be deserving of our many gifts and opportunities. To try hard to help our country

00:02:00.320 and our families to build on all the achievements of generations of Americans who preceded us. I've been

00:02:07.120 in the public arena for more than four decades now. I've always worked as a journalist, opinion host of

00:02:13.820 TV and radio shows. I've authored columns and a few books. Among them, War on the Middle Class, 0.99

00:02:21.140 Upheaval, Exporting America, Independence Day, and the Trump Century. All deal with life in America,

00:02:29.960 work, politics, and economics. Central to this podcast will be the welfare of American workers,

00:02:37.100 their families, and of course, the threats to our way of life and this great republic.

00:02:42.060 So let's begin, taking up the issues that matter most to Americans and this great nation.

00:02:50.220 We'll start with the single greatest challenge and threat to U.S. national security and global

00:02:56.180 stability. Of course, I'm talking about communist China. China's Air Force is carrying out an 0.68

00:03:03.200 unprecedented number of large-scale, intrusive, and provocative missions into the Taiwan defense

00:03:09.880 zone. And the Chinese Navy continues to assert Chinese dominion over the South China Sea and a

00:03:18.120 number of islands that are claimed by a number of Asian nations in addition to China. And the U.S.

00:03:25.040 Navy is continuing its freedom of navigation missions to support our allies and to keep shipping lanes

00:03:31.640 open to Western fleets and commercial transport of critical global oil supplies. And as tensions rise in

00:03:39.800 the South China Sea, the Chinese are building their nuclear arsenal at a rapid rate. They're quickly 0.99

00:03:46.280 catching up to Russia, to Europe, and of course, the United States in space launches. And China appears to

00:03:53.400 have taken the lead in development of hypersonic missiles. And in their most recent test, shocked

00:03:59.800 Western intelligence agencies when they flew a hypersonic missile around the planet, a missile that

00:04:06.800 missed its target by only 25 miles. U.S. news media is paying little attention to these developments,

00:04:14.680 focused as they are more on, we'll call them cultural issues here at home. And of course, supporting the

00:04:20.920 Biden administration agenda, no matter how wrongheaded or subversive of U.S. interests, whether in

00:04:27.460 economic, social, or national security policies. But no one studies the communist Chinese threats to this

00:04:34.740 country and our allies with a deeper understanding of their motives and strategic goals than does

00:04:41.240 Gatestone Institute's Gordon Chang. Gordon is a lawyer, author, columnist. He worked and lived in China and Hong Kong

00:04:49.340 for almost two decades. And I've known him for the better part of 20 years. Gordon, it's great to have

00:04:55.600 you on the show. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me on. This is just such a great

00:05:01.460 honor for me, Lou. Yes, you're right. The United States is not acknowledging it. Biden talks about China

00:05:09.280 as a competitor. China is not a competitor. It's not even an adversary. It's an enemy. And we know that, 0.92

00:05:17.600 Lou, because that's what China calls us. In May 2019, in People's Daily, the most authoritative

00:05:24.820 publication in China carried a piece that declared a, quote unquote, people's war. In August, there were

00:05:30.600 a number of pieces that in People's Daily and Global Times, which People's Daily controls, which

00:05:37.000 went after the U.S. in the most malicious terms. There's no question about it. China believes that they 0.58

00:05:43.040 have a war against us. They want to subvert our society. They want to take down America. 0.95

00:05:48.000 And we're not acknowledging it. Not acknowledging it, but our intelligence agencies, our Department

00:05:54.940 of Defense, of all people, absolutely stunned when the Chinese launched a hypersonic missile 0.93

00:06:02.420 missile. And it went entirely around the globe and then fired to hit a target. It missed that target

00:06:11.060 by only 24 miles. And our intelligence agency were sufficiently brave to admit they had no idea that

00:06:21.020 they could do that, the Chinese. And it was an admission that I found almost as stunning as the fact

00:06:28.800 that the Chinese do have a hypersonic missile. Well, this highlights that the U.S. intelligence

00:06:35.380 community has completely failed when it comes to China. And it's completely failed for a number of

00:06:40.620 reasons. But the most important one, though, is political direction, that we've had a series of

00:06:46.420 presidents, especially the current one, who doesn't see China as the main threat. You know, Biden talks

00:06:54.300 about climate change. You know, Obama talked about Russia. Well, it's not climate change. It's not

00:07:00.700 Russia. It's China. China is so much more of a threat to the U.S. And we didn't see this hypersonic

00:07:07.920 glide weapon because we didn't want to see it. Well, we know that that some of our military industrial

00:07:15.640 complex is involved in building a hypersonic missile manufacturing one. The design race is obviously

00:07:25.800 on, at least within the complex. But right now, there is no indication whatsoever that we have

00:07:32.780 anything remotely competitive to what the Chinese Communist Party just demonstrated worldwide.

00:07:39.880 Yes, you're right. Even before we knew that they could orbit something, we were years, probably a

00:07:48.080 half decade behind what we thought China had. Now, you know, we could be as much as a decade. And

00:07:54.540 remember, this hypersonic glide weapon actually can drop down with virtually no notice and nuke an

00:08:01.880 American city. So we don't have any warning that this is coming. And clearly, we are now very much

00:08:10.500 at risk. You know, we have ballistic missiles. They got nuclear weapons at the tips. This can deter

00:08:16.300 China. But deterrence is eroding because China is miles ahead of us. I think it would be an interesting 1.00

00:08:23.200 poll, don't you, to ask the American people if they think this president would respond to an attack

00:08:31.360 by the Chinese against the United States. I think there's great doubt out there that this president 1.00

00:08:39.200 is capable of protecting the interest of American citizens, the interest of the United States.

00:08:45.900 We know that he isn't. I mean, just look at the fall of Kabul. We saw a president who purposely decided

00:08:54.240 not to rescue and save American citizens who were trapped in Afghanistan. And now we're getting all

00:09:01.580 sorts of excuses from him, from the Secretary of State. This is one of the worst episodes in American

00:09:10.640 history. This is just shameful, Lou. And this has adverse geopolitical consequences that we will feel

00:09:18.340 for years and years and years as we've emboldened enemies and we've disheartened our friends and our

00:09:24.840 allies. And the nation is all but ignoring it. And when I say the nation, I'm referring to the

00:09:32.300 left-wing national media, ignoring the threat that China poses to the United States, even as we 0.93

00:09:42.300 read the headlines that a man and his wife, a federal contractor, sought to sell secrets about the

00:09:53.920 submarines, nuclear submarines, to an unknown nation. We all have some suspicions, of course, about which

00:10:01.720 nation. But this is the kind of thing that's going on almost weekly. And they did so, they say,

00:10:10.060 out of a motivation because they didn't like Donald Trump. That displeasure on their part

00:10:16.460 extended, obviously, their hatred of America to do such a thing, to even contemplate it, let alone

00:10:22.200 carry it out, which they had begun doing. Your reaction to the threat that China poses to the United 0.99

00:10:30.360 States and the reasons why our national media are so impervious, so unaware, or at least

00:10:39.700 in denial about those threats. Yeah. You know, we need to be clear. You know, Chinese leaders have

00:10:46.460 been telling us for more than a decade that they believe that China is the world's only sovereign

00:10:51.440 state, which would make the United States subservient, essentially a colony. And we know that China has 0.92

00:10:58.900 tried to foment violence on American streets. They did that last year. That's more than just

00:11:06.280 subversion, Lou. That's an act of war. But also, we got to remember that however COVID-19 started,

00:11:14.000 Xi Jinping turned this into a biological weapon by lying about contagiousness, by pressuring other

00:11:20.420 countries to not impose travel restrictions and quarantines on arrivals from China. So he deliberately

00:11:26.720 spread this disease beyond China's borders. That's about 730,000 American deaths now.

00:11:34.100 4.9 million deaths worldwide. Fentanyl deaths last year, Lou, about 53,000. That was purposeful on the

00:11:41.820 part of the Chinese regime, which has backed these criminal gangs. So China's killing Americans, 0.99

00:11:47.260 and I don't understand why this media doesn't understand what's occurring.

00:11:52.240 And to Gordon's point, when he talks about fentanyl, the most dangerous drug being produced

00:11:59.940 anywhere, there are variants of it that are actually even more lethal, believe it or not,

00:12:08.120 than the fentanyl that they are based upon. But all of them are being shipped to us courtesy of the

00:12:14.600 CCP. The communist Chinese are shipping those deadly drugs into our society. And anyone who doubts that 1.00

00:12:26.380 is for an absolutely declared purpose of disrupting the U.S. society and killing as many Americans are 1.00

00:12:36.220 naive indeed. Go on, Gordon. I just wanted to make it very clear that that is a Chinese import. 0.97

00:12:44.840 Oh, it certainly is, Lou, because the Communist Party runs a near-total surveillance state.

00:12:50.580 And these fentanyl gangs are international. They're far-flung. They are well-organized. They are

00:12:56.840 visible to the Communist Party. And there's also suspicions that the party actually takes a percentage

00:13:03.640 of the take. But in any event, we know that China also money launders for these fentanyl gangs through

00:13:11.940 Chinese state banks. I mean, the list goes on and on of Beijing's direct involvement in this.

00:13:17.700 So last year, we don't know exactly how many people died, but the estimate is so far 53,000

00:13:24.780 from fentanyl. And we should consider every fentanyl death a murder. And the murderer is the

00:13:30.820 People's Republic of China. The idea that the Chinese can continue to get away with this 1.00

00:13:36.000 and there to be no reaction, no discussion, no hasty national security meeting called by the

00:13:42.900 President of the United States. No congressional hearings. But we will have a hearing on January 6th,

00:13:50.020 I'm told, the January 6th demonstrations and riots. This is a country right now in absolute denial of

00:14:01.480 what China threatens. What are your thoughts about what we should do? 0.82

00:14:06.900 We should be cutting trade. We should be prohibiting investment. We should not

00:14:13.580 permit technical cooperation agreements with China. So for instance, we shouldn't be teaching

00:14:19.340 the Chinese how to manipulate the coronavirus to make it even more deadly to humanity. 1.00

00:14:25.320 We shouldn't allow China to buy our tech companies. We should not permit China's agents to operate on 0.99

00:14:31.320 our soil. We shouldn't allow China to use its nationals to commit espionage against us. And we

00:14:37.680 must demand reciprocity. If we can't, for instance, have a Reagan Institute in China, they shouldn't have

00:14:44.300 Confucius Institutes in our country. And they should never have these Confucius classrooms, about 500 of

00:14:50.740 them, in our secondary schools. We need to have a complete re-evaluation of our China policies.

00:14:58.840 President Trump started to do that. He broke five decades of misguided engagement policy.

00:15:05.260 But the Biden administration has gone back to what clearly didn't work and what is clearly

00:15:11.760 dangerous to the United States.

00:15:14.880 It's a highlight what Gordon has just said. In 2019, President Trump ended the Chinese

00:15:22.460 conglomerate container company and storage company, Costco, from taking over a terminal in Long Beach,

00:15:33.200 California. That Long Beach port, by the way, is the second largest on the West Coast. It is also the

00:15:41.060 number one port for the import of Chinese goods. It is critically important to the Chinese. A third of

00:15:50.600 their economy, which, by the way, is based on, of all things, trade. He stopped it. And now we learn

00:15:59.440 President Biden has turned a blind eye to the fact that the Chinese now have influence through a

00:16:09.660 management company owned by the Australians. Give us your sense of what is happening and why and how that

00:16:20.220 could possibly happen on such an important national security issue.

00:16:25.020 Yeah. China Ocean Shipping Company, which is better known as Costco, was not permitted during the Trump

00:16:31.800 administration to buy terminals at Long Beach. And what happened was Macquarie, an Australian company,

00:16:39.840 was able to purchase it. But then Macquarie turned around and gave the management contract to Costco,

00:16:47.920 which was prohibited from operations at the port. And Costco right now is managing that port. And that

00:16:55.760 gives Beijing the ability to sabotage operations in the port because no company in China, especially a

00:17:02.540 state-owned company like Costco, can ignore a Communist Party demand. So we are at risk at a critical port.

00:17:13.060 And as you point out, this is the port that handles the trade with Asia, specifically China. So I don't know

00:17:21.320 how the Biden administration could permit this to continue, but it has.

00:17:28.020 And as we're talking, there is no initiative, no public discussion even, of a response to the

00:17:37.500 belligerence, the ongoing belligerence of the Chinese Communist Party in this country, whether it's Costco

00:17:45.040 and its efforts to take over ports and to position themselves for military advantage throughout the

00:17:54.680 Pacific, and indeed moving toward Europe itself. We are at the very, it seems to me, the very nexus of

00:18:05.360 what is an expansionary policy that is quickly turning into an assault. And the refusal to acknowledge

00:18:16.040 that, whether in academia, in our national media, or whether in the Capitol, in the Senate, the House,

00:18:24.120 or as you say, the White House, and President Biden. Americans should be deeply disturbed by all of

00:18:32.840 this, should they not? Yes. And we have a chance to rectify this. That's November of next year,

00:18:39.920 as well as November of 2024. We need to hold our leaders accountable. And Biden is not defending us

00:18:48.260 from China. Just to give you an example, in July of last year, President Trump withdrew from the World

00:18:54.320 Health Organization, which helped China propagate his false narrative that COVID-19 was not transmissible.

00:19:01.120 Of course it was. It was the most highly contagious disease we've seen in a long time. So what did

00:19:06.260 Biden do after taking the oath of office on January 20? On that very day, he put us back into the WHO.

00:19:15.240 And remember, Lou, Biden had a two-hour phone call with Chinese leader Xi Jinping in February. And by

00:19:22.080 Biden's own admission, he did not raise the question of the origins of COVID-19 even once. This is just a

00:19:31.560 complete failure to protect the American people. Let's lay this out in very clear terms. Over 700,000 Americans

00:19:39.920 killed in the COVID-19, or as I call it, the Wuhan virus pandemic. It was without any doubt, irrespective of the

00:19:51.160 cause and the origin of the virus. It was known to the Chinese communist Xi Jinping that that virus was

00:20:03.840 deadly. It was very transmissible, very contagious. And it was on its way to every nation in the world.

00:20:13.300 And there was no warning. And that warning could have come three months before the first known fatality

00:20:19.380 in the United States. That is, by any definition, murder. You can call it what you will. But the

00:20:27.980 Chinese are morally responsible for the deaths of 5 million people around the world, and more than 1.00

00:20:34.680 700,000 Americans. And no one seems to want to say that out loud. Why? You know, I think that it's very

00:20:43.640 difficult for Americans to grasp the concept of evil, to grasp the notion that there are evil regimes

00:20:51.700 around the world. And Lou, you're absolutely right. China committed murder because it deliberately 0.98

00:20:58.240 spread this disease beyond its borders. COVID-19 should never have escaped the central part of China.

00:21:05.960 It should have been an epidemic confined to that country. It has, however, become a global pandemic

00:21:12.980 because the Chinese leaders lied about contagiousness. They forced other countries to 0.87

00:21:18.260 take arrivals from China. If you go back to January 31st of last year, President Trump imposed those travel

00:21:25.580 restrictions and quarantines on arrivals from China. And he took grief from and severe criticism from

00:21:33.020 Beijing and from somebody who was running for president at the time, whose name is Biden.

00:21:40.740 Yeah. Remember, Biden called President Trump xenophobic for trying to protect the American people

00:21:47.660 from this disease. Americans seem to be more outraged, some half of us, over the fact that the

00:21:56.580 president was saying it was a China virus instead of a COVID virus. They thought that was offensive.

00:22:04.380 And the Chinese were objecting to such harshness of language. In fact, it was the China virus. In fact, 0.65

00:22:10.840 it was the Wuhan virus. And in fact, I declared it a pandemic. Think of this. I declared it a pandemic

00:22:18.860 on my show two weeks before the WHO and the CDC would do so, even though then it was already

00:22:27.860 in some 15 countries, possibly more at that point, which is the definition, the very definition of a

00:22:36.640 pandemic. And they did so because of the massive influence of the WHO and the condescension of the

00:22:43.600 CDC toward the Chinese, that they didn't want to offend China by doing so. Your thoughts?

00:22:50.780 You know, you're absolutely right. When we go back and look at the timeline of what occurred,

00:22:57.400 you know, you have President Trump recognizing the danger. You have President Trump taking measures.

00:23:04.160 And clearly, you know, you have an American media and the Democratic Party criticizing him

00:23:10.880 for these measures that ultimately saved American lives. And it's, you know, I don't know what to

00:23:18.440 say, Lou. This isn't a tragedy. This is partly an American-made tragedy because of American political

00:23:24.900 elites could not understand what President Trump was saying. And you're absolutely right. We should

00:23:30.280 be calling this the Communist Party virus, the Xi Jinping virus, Wuhan virus. But clearly, it was murder, 0.81

00:23:38.500 as you say. This was every death outside China should be considered a murder. 0.94

00:23:44.040 And with that, we're in a Cold War. And it's a war that's being waged viciously by the Chinese 1.00

00:23:52.560 as we speak. Flights, overflights of CCP warplanes over the skies of Taiwan. The threats,

00:24:04.840 the direct threats to Taiwan. And the question is, what will the United States do if the Chinese 0.98

00:24:12.720 were to try to make good on those threats? Do you have any doubt that the Chinese mean to take 1.00

00:24:22.500 control of Taiwan in, I will call it, the near future?

00:24:26.500 I think that they will try to, Lou, one way or another. Xi Jinping, the Chinese ruler,

00:24:34.160 has been very clear. He's said Taiwan is a problem that cannot be passed down from generation to

00:24:40.660 generation. And he made the taking of Taiwan a core element of his legitimacy as the ruler of China.

00:24:48.980 He may not be able to do it, but he's certainly going to try with all his might,

00:24:53.540 because he's staked his rule on absolutely doing so.

00:24:59.100 And he is, right now, according to all reports from China, engaged in rewriting the history 0.83

00:25:07.800 of China and writing himself large into its future as what will be nothing less than an emperor,

00:25:17.800 a dictator for life. Are you surprised?

00:25:22.420 No, I'm not surprised. As they say in China, the future is certain. The past always gets rewritten. 0.97

00:25:32.460 And Xi Jinping is even more relentless in his rewriting of this. He has changed, for instance,

00:25:39.120 this whole notion of the reform era, which began in late 1978. He's made his father,

00:25:46.340 who was a Communist Party senior leader, responsible for good things that occurred.

00:25:53.320 Deng Xiaoping, who was generally credited with this, is put into the background. But, you know,

00:25:59.600 the more important thing is that Xi Jinping has been rewriting Chinese history to rehabilitate

00:26:06.720 Mao Zedong, the founder of the People's Republic, the man who was responsible for anywhere between 30

00:26:13.060 to 70 million deaths of Chinese, the person who's responsible for more killings and more death than 1.00

00:26:21.440 any other figure in history. Because Xi Jinping reveres Mao, he's trying to return China to something

00:26:29.200 that Mao would be familiar with, a total surveillance state, one which the Communist Party absolutely

00:26:35.160 controls. This is a very dangerous development, Lou, especially because Xi Jinping starts to see a

00:26:42.740 closing window of opportunity because of the problems in China right now. And he believes that

00:26:47.700 he must move in order to achieve what he believes are China's historic missions. And he needs to do that

00:26:54.320 in his mind while China still has the ability to intimidate others.

00:26:59.060 As interesting as it will be to read Xi Jinping's rewrite of Taiwan's history,

00:27:06.620 the future of Taiwan now, very much in question. Is it your judgment that the United States will support

00:27:17.620 Taiwan fully and align itself, if necessary, militarily to do so?

00:27:25.440 I don't know what the Biden administration will do. I don't even know if the Biden administration knows

00:27:31.740 what it would do in that type of situation. We got to go back a couple weeks ago when Biden came back

00:27:39.540 from a trip to Michigan. Reporters asked him about the Taiwan situation. And he said, essentially,

00:27:46.520 don't worry, I've had a phone conversation with Xi Jinping, and he agrees to the, quote unquote,

00:27:53.560 Taiwan agreement. Now, in official U.S. discourse, Lou, there is no such thing as the Taiwan agreement.

00:28:00.700 There is the three communiques, Reagan's six assurances, the Taiwan Relations Act, and our

00:28:06.440 One China policy. When Ned Price, the State Department spokesperson, was asked, what is the Taiwan

00:28:14.500 agreement? Ned Price just went through all of those. In other words, what the State Department was trying

00:28:22.540 to tell the American people was that Xi Jinping agreed to the American formulation of Taiwan policy.

00:28:28.880 That can't be true. In other words, the Biden administration's not leveling. It's not telling the

00:28:35.280 truth to the American people. And therefore, we've got to be really concerned what it would do

00:28:40.460 if there were to be the advent of hostilities across the Taiwan Strait. Are you absolutely

00:28:46.560 without hope that the Biden administration and the U.S. government it now controls will do anything

00:28:55.400 to protect U.S. military technology, business secrets, and intellectual property from the Chinese 1.00

00:29:04.740 as they continue to plunder the American economy and society?

00:29:12.540 Well, the Biden administration has taken some steps to do that, but they're wholly inadequate

00:29:16.700 considering the circumstances. President Trump started to impose some severe measures on China

00:29:25.180 and Chinese entities. And the Biden administration has sort of let up and taken its foot off the accelerator.

00:29:32.340 And that's really unfortunate because the situation has gotten worse during the last several months.

00:29:38.860 And I think the Biden administration would be very well advised to look at the President Trump's

00:29:44.460 playbook on this. And certainly one of the waypoints to look at for all Americans as we

00:29:53.060 navigate these troubled times will be what the Biden administration does to secure both Taiwan,

00:30:00.800 our national security and prevent the Chinese from taking further, further advantage of what has 1.00

00:30:08.920 been a benign U.S. posture toward the outright aggression of the Chinese Communist Party.

00:30:17.700 Gordon, as always, it is greatly informative and educational to talk with you and always to talk

00:30:26.100 with a good friend. Thanks so much, Gordon. Gordon, thank you so much, Lou.

00:30:30.340 Turning now to our next guest. No president since Franklin Roosevelt has arguably accomplished more

00:30:37.300 in one term than did Donald Trump. No president since Abraham Lincoln, however, has been more harassed,

00:30:45.340 harangued, hounded, and persecuted by the Democratic Party. The radical left, it's now clear,

00:30:52.580 conspired with the campaign of Trump's 2016 opponent, Senator Hillary Clinton, to stop his election and

00:31:00.080 then to try to overthrow his presidency. Democrat harassment and persecution, of course, has not

00:31:07.760 ended with the president's departure from the White House. And in my opinion, the Republican Party is

00:31:13.580 doing far too little to defend the man who was subjected to two unsuccessful efforts to impeach him

00:31:20.760 into an almost two-year-long special counsel investigation. Both, as the former president said,

00:31:28.640 were hoaxes. Joining us now, a man who supported the president throughout his four years, first as

00:31:35.020 chairman of the Freedom Caucus, and then as the 29th White House Chief of Staff, former Congressman

00:31:41.500 Mark Meadows. Good to have you with us. And your reaction to what surprised our intelligence agencies

00:31:49.880 and our Department of Defense every bit as much as the average American woman and man walking the 0.93

00:31:59.140 streets of America. Well, Lou, it's great to be with you. And sadly, it was a surprise to our

00:32:05.960 intelligence community, but it wasn't a surprise to one particular person. That's Donald J. Trump.

00:32:11.920 I happened to be in the Oval Office when he was talking with both some of his CIA briefers and

00:32:21.180 military advisors. And he said, listen, we've got to be very vigilant. They're going to be able to

00:32:27.980 use hypersonic missiles in a way that, according to him, are 17 times faster than anything else that

00:32:37.340 we've seen. And they kind of just, you know, gave me the gentle push off where they acted like, well,

00:32:45.880 that's fine, Mr. President, but that's not something we need to worry about. And so obviously today,

00:32:50.620 they're worrying about it. And the American people, the people that are tuned in right now should be

00:32:55.040 worried about it because it's one more, you know, I guess, step up that ladder where we look at China 1.00

00:33:04.360 and Russia is really battling for supremacy. But China in particular, when you look at whether it's

00:33:12.400 on, as you mentioned, the artificial intelligence side of things or hypersonic missiles, or just

00:33:18.120 bluntly trying to control rare earth minerals for everything that we do, they are putting themselves

00:33:26.820 right in the center of the supply chain. And, and they need to be taken seriously. And as you know,

00:33:32.980 Lou, they, they don't have a whole lot of respect for Joe Biden. They feared Donald Trump,

00:33:38.260 and they don't fear Joe Biden or this administration.

00:33:42.700 And to that, to that point, Vladimir Putin, a few days ago said, quite simply, that the Chinese do not

00:33:51.720 need would not be required to invade Taiwan, to take it over. Your thoughts about that comment

00:34:00.760 and what it might augur?

00:34:02.880 Well, I mean, obviously, as Taiwan starts to get mentioned more and more, whether it's by Russia

00:34:08.800 and Vladimir Putin, you know, talking about certainly their ability to control what goes in and out of,

00:34:15.000 of Taiwan, literally, figuratively, and logistically, they can control that. The only thing that's been

00:34:23.820 holding them back has been a strong US presence, and, and quite frankly, a strong US position. Now,

00:34:31.660 while that US position hasn't changed, obviously, the resolve within the White House has changed. And

00:34:38.440 when you start seeing Apology 2 or 2.0 is what I call it, where Joe Biden is going out and trying to

00:34:46.360 be one of one of the good old boys, just slapping, you know, our European and foreign leaders on the

00:34:54.340 back, pretending to be an equal. We're not an equal, Lou, as you know, America is not only known for its

00:35:01.580 greatness, but for its strength, both economically and on the military side of the equation. And,

00:35:07.980 and we need to act like it. And, and along with that comes great responsibility. But,

00:35:13.380 you know, you see how provocative Russia got with Crimea and some of the areas in and around Russia,

00:35:20.860 I fully expect that we'll start to see that happening more and more with China, in addition to,

00:35:29.900 you know, their presence in the, in the China Sea realm.

00:35:34.100 And as, as we've learned over the course of the, particularly the past two decades,

00:35:40.420 the economy is the foundation of national security. We're on the verge, many economists fear of

00:35:47.480 stagflation. Inflation is reaching levels not seen for more than a decade now. And the, the prospect of

00:35:57.020 stagflation is concerning many of those economists. At the same time, Joe Biden is pushing a three and a

00:36:04.640 half trillion dollar spending bill, call it infrastructure, call it a payoff to blue states, 0.97

00:36:12.860 call it what you want. We're looking at $30 trillion in national debt and limiting our children and our

00:36:20.440 grandchildren's futures immensely. Uh, we're also, uh, diminishing our own prospects for prosperity,

00:36:28.000 uh, in the next year, uh, and, uh, and beyond your thoughts about Joe Biden, his economics, his politics,

00:36:36.080 and, uh, the difference between what the GOP, uh, is, uh, considering, uh, as the future and particularly,

00:36:45.300 uh, uh, a fellow by the name of Donald Trump. Well, Lou, uh, you know, it's interesting that you, you, uh,

00:36:52.160 talk about the economics part of that. And for those that are tuning in, perhaps they knew, uh, Lou Dobbs from,

00:36:58.960 uh, you know, some of your previous roles, or maybe they're just tuning in, uh, to this particular, uh, uh,

00:37:05.680 broadcasts and podcasts. Uh, but, but you can speak to that probably as well as anybody, uh, not only in, uh,

00:37:13.920 New York or Washington DC, but, but certainly speaking to what ultimately it will do to our

00:37:21.200 nation's economy. And, and, and so here's, here's my take on it. Um, the only thing that Joe Biden has

00:37:28.300 is to spend more money. He doesn't have policy that people will, will come around. In fact, most of his

00:37:34.760 policy, uh, he's, uh, having a difficult time implementing it. Uh, he gets beat up by unaffiliated 0.97

00:37:42.400 voters, uh, and Republican voters alike, uh, in terms of what he's doing in foreign policy on the

00:37:48.560 border, uh, with regards to oil prices. And so his answer to that is, is let's spend trillions of

00:37:55.260 dollars that we don't have. Let's borrow it from China and other, other, uh, uh, people in, in the

00:38:01.320 world. But the, the sad part about that is, is there's two groups of people that love to spend

00:38:07.580 money in Washington DC, Lou it's Democrats and Republicans and, and, uh, therein is the problem.

00:38:15.660 So there's a number of us that are fighting back, uh, privately. And I appreciate you raising it

00:38:20.980 because what we have to do is slow this process down. Uh, you know, it's whether it's $30 trillion

00:38:26.860 in debt or whether it's another, uh, three to $5 trillion in additional spending. You and I both

00:38:34.300 know, um, uh, unfortunately, both of us have enough gray hair to remember, uh, the Jimmy Carter days

00:38:40.500 and, and what happened with interest rates and inflation rates and, and, uh, and candidly an

00:38:47.340 economy that was, uh, uh, just in, in, in tatters until, you know, a guy by the name of Ronald Reagan

00:38:55.140 came along, uh, Donald Trump recognized this very well. And while he was willing to spend money and

00:39:01.660 willing to put, uh, some, uh, money in the economy when, when we had the artificial shutdown during

00:39:08.100 COVID, uh, you know, this is, this has been just, uh, really an addiction by the Democrats to say just

00:39:16.280 more, more, more spending. And yet when you talk even to Democrats, their fear is that Washington DC

00:39:24.280 will spend too much money. Uh, at the same time, they're voting for some of these people that, uh,

00:39:30.280 are out there, uh, pushing it here, here's, here's my take on what I think will happen.

00:39:34.820 I think at the end of the day, um, I, I think that there'll be enough sand that will be put in

00:39:41.340 the gears that, uh, the, the ultimate package that passes will probably still be an obnoxious

00:39:47.760 $2 trillion or a slight above that, but it will pass. And what will happen is, is that they will

00:39:55.080 actually play around with some of the length of the programs and, and by playing around with it,

00:40:00.900 what they'll do is instead of saying that this is a five-year program that we're funding,

00:40:04.600 we're only going to fund it for six months or nine months. And so the problem is they'll

00:40:09.840 institutionalize a lot of these social programs, bringing the price tag down, but knowing that

00:40:16.060 Congress will never push back in it. And so it's essentially still passing a five to $7 trillion

00:40:22.380 package, just doing it with, uh, bows and ribbons that make it seem to be a little bit more appealing

00:40:29.100 than it is. Uh, I can tell you the conservative partnership we're working with conservative

00:40:33.140 senators, uh, and, and even, uh, some moderate Democrats, uh, on the house side to try to, uh,

00:40:40.960 show how it's going to affect those people that are coming along. But, uh, but it is a scary time.

00:40:48.020 Anytime that Congress is in session, uh, the American people are, uh, potentially in harm's way

00:40:54.360 without question. And, and everyone listening to your voice right now, I'm sure, uh, hair stood up,

00:41:02.440 uh, on end for them, uh, as it did me because the idea of five to $7 trillion, uh, it means not only

00:41:10.780 that the radical Dems have gone mad, but the Rhino leadership of both the house and the Senate, 0.88

00:41:17.300 uh, will be accomplices in this, uh, in this fiscal disaster. You're exactly right. You're exactly

00:41:25.660 right. And if we let them do that, uh, Lou, there should be consequences at the ballot box, 0.88

00:41:31.220 even for the Republican side of the aisle. And, and that is the contest. Now you were saying earlier,

00:41:39.700 there are only two parties that are interested in spending more Republicans and Democrats,

00:41:44.000 but there's a, there is a, uh, fifth column effect, if you will, uh, for, uh, for rhinos who

00:41:52.600 take up seats, uh, in the Senate and the house with, uh, ours, uh, next to their, their names and titles.

00:42:00.180 Uh, it's, it's getting very disturbing to think of the power, uh, that, uh, that is the power void

00:42:08.060 left by the president, uh, not in the white house and the rhinos. Mitch McConnell has suddenly

00:42:14.120 very emboldened, uh, talking very big about what he wants done, uh, and will he succeed?

00:42:22.360 Well, uh, generally, uh, Mitch McConnell has not been one that has been long on delivery. He's been

00:42:29.800 long on rhetoric and not as much on the delivery side of the equation as you and I both know, uh,

00:42:35.680 you know, um, I've got a, a book that's coming out in the, in the not too distant future called

00:42:41.400 the chief's chief. And, and in there, I talk about how it's so disappointing. It was so disappointing

00:42:47.580 for, for president Trump, uh, because he thought that everybody with, uh, on the Republican side

00:42:53.820 would unify, come together and fight, especially if he was willing to fight. And yet some of the

00:42:59.920 biggest opposition that we get actually comes from our side of the aisle. And so, uh, we need to put

00:43:06.840 some real pressure. You, you heard what, uh, uh, Mitch McConnell said about the debt ceiling and that

00:43:12.820 he's not going to give the votes the next time around. Well, that's what they always say. They

00:43:17.440 always say, we're not going to give you the votes just after they pass something where they gave them

00:43:21.920 the votes. And, uh, you know, this was 11 people, uh, here, here was my take on it. They shouldn't

00:43:28.660 have, have given it. I'm not one that believes that we should default on our debt. Uh, you and I both

00:43:33.880 believe that we've, we've got to make sure that we have sound fiscal policy, but here's the

00:43:39.240 interesting thing. The Democrats could have done that on their own. It had they done it on their own,

00:43:44.420 it would have taken up weeks and weeks of calendar time. So instead of them debating a three or

00:43:50.520 five trillion dollar, uh, stimulus, uh, the way that they would put it, uh, instead of them debating

00:43:57.340 this whole new package of, of leftist, uh, wishes, they would have been tied up on doing the debt

00:44:05.780 ceiling. And it would have allowed us to, to move the debate, at least into January of next year,

00:44:12.800 the closer you get to election, the less accountable any politician wants to be. And so it was a bad

00:44:19.700 strategic, uh, and tactical move. Uh, and yet at the end of the day, uh, you know, I think some of

00:44:27.220 the Republicans, even some that you would put in the more squishy category, got very, very nervous

00:44:33.020 about, uh, giving Democrats a vote. Well, that's that list. Unfortunately, Republicans, I think of

00:44:40.500 as somewhat squishy as you put it, uh, it seems to be getting longer by the, by the week. Uh, it's the

00:44:47.920 idea that, uh, rhinos right now have so much influence within the Republican party. The

00:44:54.800 establishment Republicans are the essence of, uh, Republicans in name only. And my judgment,

00:45:02.420 uh, the RNC controlled by the establishment, uh, Republicans, uh, pretending as they have so often,

00:45:11.040 uh, to be, uh, supporting Donald Trump, uh, and America first policies, uh, what, what will happen?

00:45:19.640 Are we going to see this, uh, this conflict break into open warfare in the Republican party?

00:45:26.720 Well, uh, we could, but I will say that at least even some of the more establishment swampy Republicans

00:45:35.120 realize that Donald Trump is still very, very popular across the country. Uh, you mentioned a,

00:45:43.000 you know, I've been traveling all over the country and that the biggest thing that people want us to

00:45:47.480 deal with is making sure that we have, uh, well, six words, uh, that it's easy to vote and hard to

00:45:54.080 cheat and, and that we need to put into places, you know, an audit program and making sure that only,

00:45:59.840 uh, those votes that should be counted, get counted. And, and that's the number one issue,

00:46:06.220 but the number two issue, uh, literally is, are you for Donald Trump or not? And, uh, I can tell

00:46:13.760 you, you can tell that the swamp realizes that Donald Trump brand, and he continues to sell because,

00:46:20.700 uh, the NRSC, which is the, uh, uh, national Republican Senatorial Committee, which raises money

00:46:27.740 primarily for McConnell handpicked candidates, continues to use the president's name, uh, each

00:46:34.900 and every day. I mean, volumes of emails. In fact, so many that I get emails from people saying, why,

00:46:40.800 why is the president letting them use his picture and pretend like that they're on his side when

00:46:46.160 they're not, uh, which is a valid question. And, uh, and yet I think at the end of the day,

00:46:52.260 they thought that Donald Trump would go away and that, uh, quote, they could get their party back.

00:46:57.740 Uh, but the, the, the party is forever changed and it's the, the party of the forgotten man and

00:47:03.480 woman. And Donald J. Trump is going to stick around to remind us of that. One of the great battles out

00:47:09.400 there right now is, uh, is for money donors, uh, time 10 attention and, uh, and moolah. Uh, it's,

00:47:18.900 it's, it's, uh, actually reached, reaching a pace. I've seldom seen this early, uh, going into either,

00:47:25.420 uh, uh, uh, uh, congressional election or a presidential election. This is really tough stuff.

00:47:32.740 And I'm hearing a lot of talk about how tough, uh, the president's people are being, uh, and how,

00:47:40.880 uh, well, how irresponsible other fundraisers are being it's what's going to happen here because 0.96

00:47:48.880 this looks like an all out battle for donor money in the Republican party itself.

00:47:53.840 Well, it is. And, and obviously the Democrats are raising, uh, a lot of money as well, but you're

00:47:59.740 right. It's interesting. You point that out Lou, because, uh, you and I have, uh, you know, it's

00:48:05.200 not our first or second rodeo. We've been around to see a few rodeos and, and in doing so, uh, what,

00:48:12.000 what I'm finding is the insane amount of money that's being raised, uh, for candidates, uh, both on

00:48:20.040 the Senate side, but even on the house side, I mean, uh, some of the, the money that's being

00:48:24.440 raised, uh, these are levels that, uh, not only I've never seen, but they're levels that actually

00:48:31.400 would be hard unless you're having an all out battle, uh, for the hearts and souls of the American

00:48:38.060 people. Uh, it is, uh, well, part of that is, is Biden did driving part of that because they're

00:48:45.040 seeing how could it got, have gotten this bad this quickly, uh, with Joe Biden. And so that's

00:48:50.520 driving part of it. The other part is they say, well, gosh, we just need to take over one branch

00:48:55.180 of the government. So they're going to give on the Senate side, they're going to give on the house

00:48:58.280 side. Uh, but they do need to be prudent. I can tell you the president Trump and his team and, uh,

00:49:04.580 his affiliated, uh, uh, fundraising mechanisms, uh, are trying to make sure that they save those hard,

00:49:12.100 uh, earn dollars for the right fight at the right time. Uh, sadly, a lot of times that doesn't happen

00:49:19.440 in Washington, DC, as you know, but I do think it will be a battle for a few States. And, uh, you know,

00:49:26.340 uh, you, we all know what that short list of States might be, but, um, uh, it, it's not voting well

00:49:33.560 for Democrats, uh, because of the amount of money flowing into Republican coffers.

00:49:39.340 And one of the conflicts has not gone away. And that is between the national left-wing media

00:49:45.600 and the Republican party and Donald Trump. There's as much acrimony, as much, uh, outright hatred,

00:49:53.900 uh, of the former president as ever, it seems there, but he's winning those battles when it comes

00:50:00.760 to the test of time and truth. Uh, he's been proved right on trade. He's been proved right on Biden.

00:50:06.440 Uh, he's been proved. And even on a hypersonic missile, you know, but you're right. He is winning

00:50:13.780 those battles, but it, it, it comes at a real cost. You know, what happens is the, the left-wing

00:50:18.940 media is trying to make any mention of Donald Trump toxic. Uh, so even some of the people who

00:50:26.540 quietly will come up and whisper to me, you know, keep, keep going, you know, tell the president,

00:50:31.840 we love him and to, to, you know, to stay fully engaged, they're doing that a lot more quiet than

00:50:37.980 they did before. So it is having an impact. You know, there's fewer MAGA and make America great

00:50:43.260 hats out there being worn. And yet I can tell you just traveling the country, there are more and more

00:50:49.540 people that, uh, still would, uh, be glad to do a boat parade or wear that MAGA hat, uh, had,

00:50:57.660 had they not had, uh, you know, the left-wing media coming after them each and every day.

00:51:03.040 And the left-wing media now is they've been hoisted on their own petard goes the old,

00:51:10.380 uh, saw or cliche, if you prefer, uh, CNN, uh, caught with, you know, in every kind of, uh,

00:51:19.120 misrepresentation. I'll be kind and avoid the use of the word lie. Uh, they, they are there for all

00:51:27.540 to see the same is true of MSNBC. Uh, I think truly the American people are wise to what they

00:51:35.940 are and what they've become and what they intend, apparently, irrespective of whether Donald Trump

00:51:41.500 is president or not, they intend to, uh, carry on the politics of media destruction.

00:51:48.680 Well, and that's a sad part about it because journalism, even if it had a left leaning, uh,

00:51:54.320 or a right leaning kind of, uh, tilt used to be all about getting the facts and making sure that

00:52:00.820 you have, uh, you know, your sources down and that you do your fact checking. Now, what we have

00:52:06.640 are, you know, people, you've got groups like CNN who will do their own fact checking on their own

00:52:12.400 fact checking so that that way that they can authenticate it and say that it's been fact

00:52:16.960 checked now. And, and, and yet they're playing to a smaller and smaller audience Lou. And that's,

00:52:21.900 uh, you know, that's the interesting thing is, is you and I will probably be listened to

00:52:26.640 more, uh, on this particular medium than, than CNN will have, uh, on one of their peak days,

00:52:34.360 you know, and, and, uh, when you see that, uh, you know, it, it's, it's less than a million people

00:52:40.580 now that, that are tuning in because they, they want something that's authentic, uh, and, and

00:52:46.820 candidly, even on the CNNs and they're hiring all kinds of reporters, but they'll go only with one

00:52:52.440 source. And, you know, Lou, when you go with one source, you get one opinion, you, you, uh, it is

00:52:58.360 a real journalistic, uh, faux pas, in my opinion. Yeah. You know, there is something in the trade.

00:53:05.040 One source is never enough. And many times two sources is not adequate. I've actually been in a

00:53:12.820 situation where I had, uh, two sources on a very important national security. I won't go into it

00:53:17.960 story. Uh, and both, uh, both of those sources turned out to be wrong. And that's, uh, you know,

00:53:25.340 that's just something that happens, but there is no humility in the media. Now you can be wrong,

00:53:32.060 admit you're wrong, correct it and move on, but they don't care about being wrong. And in fact,

00:53:37.240 uh, CNN, MSNBC, it seems to me, at least those two are intent upon being wrong. And that's what they

00:53:46.640 prize, uh, is their perspective and their ideology of both above fact and reality. Well, they, they,

00:53:53.900 uh, may apologize, but they only, uh, apologize if it's a major faux pas. I mean, if it's a

00:54:00.240 interpretation, the way that they view it and, and, and that may be unfair to some of the reporters over

00:54:05.820 there, uh, you know, some of the people that you and I both know, but when you look at, at their,

00:54:11.760 their, uh, normal lineup, even if they make a mistake, it is, uh, conditioned in such a way

00:54:18.740 that they try to present it as not a mistake, or they made the mistake because, uh, uh, a rational

00:54:25.920 person would have viewed it that way. Listen, it's all about the reason why, uh, journalists, uh,

00:54:33.540 continue to lose support broadly is because people want the truth. And that's, uh, what I

00:54:40.180 appreciate about you bringing, bringing forth, uh, different perspectives and, uh, letting the

00:54:46.280 people decide for themselves. Well, I appreciate you, uh, saying that. And, uh, I take that as a high

00:54:52.980 compliment. Uh, and I want to say to everyone listening, Mark Meadows is on this podcast because

00:54:59.780 he's one of those people who talk straight, uh, is a, uh, uh, devout patriot. And, uh, I always learn

00:55:08.160 something from him and, uh, appreciate your time, Mark being with us. I want to give you the last word

00:55:14.000 here, if I may, uh, the half of America right now is trying to figure out what happened on, uh,

00:55:22.280 on election day in 2020. And we also have people wondering why 700,000 Americans, uh, died as a

00:55:32.660 result of, uh, COVID-19, why we continue to have a border that's not secured. And that, uh, literally

00:55:43.060 this year, about 2 million illegal immigrants will come into the country. Uh, we have a government that 0.87

00:55:50.300 in the minds of many Americans, if not most is simply out of control. Is that going to change

00:55:57.420 enough for Republicans to take back, uh, the Congress, this, the Senate, uh, in 2022?

00:56:05.460 You know, uh, great question. And I'll finish with this here. Here's the concern that I have. Um,

00:56:12.080 uh, we can, we need to continue to work on the election integrity side of the equation. There's a

00:56:18.000 whole lot of people that are disenchanted and believe that they were disenfranchised, uh, in the

00:56:23.920 November 3rd, uh, election of 2020. And so we need to continue to work on that, uh, to make sure that

00:56:30.580 we have that. However, the other issues that you mentioned, whether it's, uh, people coming across

00:56:36.020 the border illegally, you know, to the tune of, you know, 2 million a year, or some of the, uh, the

00:56:42.820 other issues where, uh, Joe Biden seems to turn a blind eye. In fact, I would say is turning a blind

00:56:50.000 eye, uh, will actually have a, a more positive effect on people turning out. Uh, you have to

00:56:56.660 look backwards. Uh, you have to look at what, uh, China did in this whole COVID pandemic, hold them 0.98

00:57:04.360 accountable. You have to look at supply chains. You have to make sure that, that China doesn't control

00:57:09.800 everything that we buy and purchase and consume. And yet, uh, the Biden administration is, uh, AWOL

00:57:18.780 absent without leave. And, and, uh, I'm, I'm optimistic that patriots across the country,

00:57:24.160 those that are tuning in right now will, will continue to stand up and, uh, stay engaged.

00:57:29.240 We face difficult things in the past and we will face difficult things in the future. Uh, but there

00:57:35.840 will always be leaders who will come along and, and say the forgotten man and woman needs to be the,

00:57:42.160 uh, the voice, uh, for what is right and for freedom. And, and I'm optimistic that that'll happen.

00:57:49.820 Great having you with us, Mark Meadows. We thank you so much. Senior partner at the conservative

00:57:55.220 partnership Institute. And he has a new book called the chief's chief. It comes out, uh, in December.

00:58:02.740 You can order it pre-order that book at Barnes and Noble, amazon.com in bookstores, worthy bookstores

00:58:11.280 all over the country. Thanks to Lou. Appreciate it. Take care. God bless you too, Mark. Thanks so

00:58:18.360 much. Mark Meadows. Join us again tomorrow for the great America podcast. Stay in the fight. Truth,

00:58:24.380 justice, and the American way will prevail against all enemies, against all odds.

The Great America Show - November 11, 2021

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