The Great America Show - WITCHHUNTS, RADICAL DEMS AND BIDENFLATION

00:00:00.000 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Great America Podcast with Lou Dobbs,

00:00:04.200 always in the fight for truth, justice, and yes, our American way of life.

00:00:09.220 And now, here he is, the Peabody award-winning voice of truth, the great Lou Dobbs.

00:00:14.240 Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Great America Show.

00:00:18.220 There is much happening in Washington, and much of it is, well, more of the same.

00:00:24.080 That is, more lies emanating from the White House, more skullduggery on Capitol Hill.

00:00:31.040 There is obviously no limit to the venomous, radical, dim compulsion to hound and harangue

00:00:37.240 former President Donald Trump.

00:00:39.320 It seems without Donald Trump, the Democrats have no purpose at all.

00:00:44.640 Nancy Pelosi formed a special committee with which to go after the former president, 0.98

00:00:49.060 the Dems seeking to make much more of the shameful January 6th riots on Capitol Hill

00:00:55.100 than was obvious to the rest of us.

00:00:58.300 But, of course, in order to do that, they needed much more than they actually possessed.

00:01:04.280 Riot, trespass, limited pillaging simply weren't enough for the radical Dems.

00:01:09.960 No, they saw political opportunity in that day on Capitol Hill,

00:01:13.800 and what they conjured was insurrection, a chance to go after Donald Trump one more time.

00:01:21.640 They had gotten away with every vicious, baseless attack on him all four years of his presidency.

00:01:28.180 So why not give it a go now that he was no longer in power?

00:01:32.780 Pelosi named her pack of persecutors the January 6th Committee,

00:01:37.380 and now they have the former president's chief of staff, Mark Meadows, in their sights.

00:01:41.940 The committee voted for a contempt referral.

00:01:45.900 The full House voted to hold Meadows in contempt of Congress.

00:01:49.740 And with us today is Mark Meadows, former congressman from North Carolina,

00:01:55.060 former chair and co-founder of the Freedom Caucus,

00:01:58.040 and chief of staff to President Donald Trump.

00:02:01.440 Mark, it's great to have you on The Great America Show.

00:02:04.420 You are a man in the arena without question.

00:02:07.560 And it is slings and arrows are coming fast and heavy at you from almost every direction.

00:02:16.280 But one in particular, that direction being from the left,

00:02:20.300 they just will not quit persecuting you and the president.

00:02:25.560 Even after he's left office, it is an ugly thing to watch a unanimous vote now from the January 6th Committee,

00:02:35.940 which means two of your fellow Republicans joined the radical Dems to vote against you

00:02:40.940 in what appears to be, again, just persecution, political persecution.

00:02:47.460 How are you holding up?

00:02:49.060 Well, Lou, thanks for asking.

00:02:53.840 And honestly, when you stand on principle and you stand for the rule of law and what's right,

00:03:00.580 you know, it's not always easy.

00:03:02.720 I can say this, you know, it's so many Americans have wished me well.

00:03:07.300 And the prayers from all over the country, coast to coast, Lou, have been very touching.

00:03:12.540 And I can say this, you said it so well.

00:03:17.340 This is not about Mark Meadows.

00:03:19.120 This is about a political retribution because they didn't like Donald Trump.

00:03:24.420 They didn't like his policies.

00:03:26.240 And they're afraid that he's going to run again.

00:03:28.360 And I'm, you know, I'm as his chief of staff, he is invoked the executive privilege.

00:03:36.900 And I'm not going to be the first chief of staff in the history of our country that goes

00:03:42.360 and doesn't honor that executive privilege.

00:03:45.260 You know, if the courts want to weigh in on this and say that Congress is right, that will

00:03:50.460 be another matter.

00:03:51.620 But right now, it's not mine to waive.

00:03:54.060 And it's certainly not Congress's and Adam Schiff's and the January 6th committees to

00:03:59.620 waive either.

00:04:01.020 Well, that issue of executive privilege is fascinating.

00:04:07.680 It's important, critically important in all of this.

00:04:11.820 But I believe most Americans don't understand why that committee, a partisan committee, it is

00:04:18.980 a bunch of Democrats and two rhinos charging full steam ahead at the president, the former 0.97

00:04:24.760 president, at you.

00:04:27.000 And certainly there will be lots of others and a group of detainees being held, some of

00:04:32.920 them without charges after 11 months.

00:04:37.160 It's outrage and it's outrageous.

00:04:40.360 And it goes on.

00:04:42.420 At some point, why can we not get the Supreme Court, whatever is the appropriate?

00:04:48.980 Court to say this stops here because this is a political bloodbath in the offing.

00:04:57.020 Well, it is, Lou.

00:04:59.220 And I think hopefully the courts will weigh in, perhaps even the Supreme Court.

00:05:03.500 As you know, I filed a lawsuit against Nancy Pelosi in the January 6th committee.

00:05:09.220 That's not out of vengeance.

00:05:10.600 That's basically saying the courts should weigh in.

00:05:14.160 The subpoena power that this committee has exercised.

00:05:18.840 And I'm not just talking about the subpoenas issued to me and a few others.

00:05:23.700 I'm talking about dozens and dozens, if not hundreds of subpoenas that they've issued.

00:05:29.700 And when they do that, you see a very problematic path that we're going down.

00:05:36.500 Because then they can not only subpoena the private text messages and emails of individuals,

00:05:43.300 but they're not looking at it from a legislative purpose standpoint.

00:05:47.600 Oh, they may say, oh, it has some kind of legislative calisthenics to get them to a point to justify

00:05:55.680 their inquiry.

00:05:56.940 But this is not about a real inquiry, Lou.

00:05:59.340 You know it.

00:06:00.020 I know it.

00:06:01.020 Everybody on the January 6th committee has already voted to impeach President Trump.

00:06:08.180 They're not neutral arbiters of truth here.

00:06:11.680 What they're trying to do is to seek the very best that they can to establish political revenge.

00:06:19.340 And when you allow one party to do that, it is, and you mentioned, it's all Democrats except

00:06:26.860 for Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney, who were the two Republicans to vote for contempt.

00:06:35.120 They're working on an intimidation.

00:06:37.640 And for me, my oath to my country and certainly my support of President Trump and his rightful

00:06:49.580 claim is not something that you can just give away regardless of the consequence.

00:06:54.040 And, Lou, I want to stress one other thing.

00:06:57.000 You know, everybody, you know, they look at it and the consequences.

00:07:00.000 I mean, honestly, if I'm found guilty of this charge, you know, I could serve time.

00:07:08.860 And yet, I am in such a much better position than so many people that are listening in right now.

00:07:15.000 And my message to them is I'm blessed.

00:07:17.860 I've got friends who truly I've been praying because they've got family members with cancer.

00:07:23.660 We've got law enforcement officers that, you know, stand in harm's way each and every

00:07:28.620 day.

00:07:28.960 We've got service members who are separated from their families.

00:07:32.980 And fortunately for me, you know, my Heavenly Father blessed me with a great family and a

00:07:37.660 great support group.

00:07:39.080 And so I want that message to be very clear to them that, yes, I'm standing on principle,

00:07:43.720 but we're trusting that the end result, that the truth will prevail.

00:07:49.340 Well, spoken as I would expect, Mark Meadows is a man of great character and class and faith.

00:08:01.440 You know, I'm religious.

00:08:03.160 I like to think I've got good character, but I've got to tell you, those two rhinos sitting 1.00

00:08:08.060 on that committee are lower than snake bellies.

00:08:10.520 Adam Schiff is a cretin of the lowest order, and those who are joined with him on the Democratic

00:08:20.160 side are contemptible.

00:08:23.100 They're not issuing contempt citations.

00:08:26.460 They are demonstrating contemptuous behavior, contemptuous of everything this country stands

00:08:31.960 for, integrity, fair play, and the national interest.

00:08:36.820 You know, they are, in my opinion, awful, and they have much to account for.

00:08:45.580 Well, Lou, you mentioned Adam Schiff.

00:08:48.500 What did he do to my good friend, Jim Jordan?

00:08:51.960 You know, he took a text message, and then he manipulated it to indicate that Jim Jordan

00:08:58.360 was saying or implying something that he didn't imply.

00:09:02.320 You know, if you did that in a court of law, you'd be thrown out.

00:09:05.540 They'd throw out the case immediately, and yet, you know, what do we get from the January

00:09:10.140 6th committee?

00:09:11.120 Oh, well, we're sorry we made the error.

00:09:13.680 Well, listen, it's not just that.

00:09:17.320 It's everything else that they're doing to try to spin their narrative to suggest that

00:09:24.260 there was advanced knowledge in the West Wing of a security breach that happened on January

00:09:29.540 6th, and there was not.

00:09:31.760 I can tell you there was not.

00:09:33.280 I'm not aware of any.

00:09:34.320 I can tell you the president and I certainly weren't aware of any, and I'm not aware of

00:09:40.020 anybody in the West Wing that is guilty of the things that they've accused them of.

00:09:48.440 Well, and I know you well enough to know that they should accept that as the word of an honest

00:09:54.920 man of integrity who's demonstrated that throughout his life and career.

00:10:00.440 But this is, as you said earlier, this is not about, you know, anything approaching a serious

00:10:09.720 inquiry.

00:10:10.260 This is the same order as two attempts at impeaching the president of the United States

00:10:16.240 simply because you said because they didn't like him.

00:10:19.980 I think it's because they fear him and everything he stood for.

00:10:23.680 He talked about exactly the issues that are most important to the country, whether it be

00:10:32.140 the strength of our military, whether it be the movement of our military out of places in

00:10:38.560 which they have absolutely no business in the tradition of the United States.

00:10:42.880 Our heritage is not to be a police state with an army that is at the beck and call of third

00:10:50.540 world countries.

00:10:51.460 And for those who would try to find a national interest in it, it is disgusting what they

00:10:57.680 how they have treated.

00:11:00.000 Well, it is.

00:11:01.360 And you're exactly right.

00:11:02.800 And here's the interesting thing is if they did not fear that he was going to run again

00:11:08.220 in 2024, I don't know that they would be this aggressive.

00:11:12.360 Now, they may have to be because, Lou, here's the other fact.

00:11:14.960 They have nothing to run on.

00:11:18.220 I mean, we've got inflation that's hitting gas prices that are hitting hitting highs.

00:11:23.080 We've got grocery prices that are going up.

00:11:25.600 We've got a border that is so open at our southern border that people are coming and going.

00:11:32.480 I mean, we talk about build back better.

00:11:34.320 They're building back better.

00:11:35.920 The drug cartels because of an open border, the Taliban in Afghanistan because of the debacle

00:11:41.540 of the way that they left Afghanistan and China.

00:11:44.960 Because of the way that they're they're negotiating with China from a position of weakness.

00:11:49.800 The only thing they're building back better are our adversaries, not our allies, and certainly 0.94

00:11:55.280 not the American people. 0.56

00:11:57.020 These Democrats right now really don't want to run on their record because their record

00:12:04.040 is one of opening the borders to fentanyl, to heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine.

00:12:11.240 It is a record of death across that border as the cartels smuggle sex traffic, smuggle drugs,

00:12:21.380 smuggle human beings, illegal immigrants. 1.00

00:12:24.280 It's outrageous.

00:12:25.920 They're a part of the corrupt, the corrupt machine that makes it possible for those cartels

00:12:31.280 to exploit hundreds of thousands of people.

00:12:34.920 Last year, 100,000 overdose deaths, the leading cause of Americans, 18 to 45 drug overdoses.

00:12:45.300 And the Democratic Party will not join with the Republicans, the Trump-led Republicans, and

00:12:52.480 secure that border.

00:12:53.940 It's ignorance at the highest level, and it's only made possible because the Republican leadership

00:13:00.040 is so effete and so feeble and so cowardly that they won't stand up for principle and

00:13:07.080 the men and women who support those principles and advocate those principles, namely Donald

00:13:13.580 J. Trump and all who work for him.

00:13:15.940 I find this situation unbearable in this country, that we have to tolerate this nonsense, and

00:13:22.780 I don't know how we extricate ourselves from these radicals, neo-Marxists, whatever they

00:13:30.880 want to call themselves, and the deep state, who in combination are destroying the nation.

00:13:38.020 Well, you're exactly right.

00:13:39.880 I can tell you it's a combination of the deep state, apathy on behalf of Republican leadership

00:13:47.940 who is willing to just allow things to continue to go and pretend like Donald Trump was never

00:13:54.560 president.

00:13:55.200 That's what Washington, D.C. would like to do, is they'd like to pretend that Donald Trump

00:14:00.460 was never president, didn't accomplish the historic things that he was able to accomplish.

00:14:05.540 The problem is, is the history of what he accomplished continues to be a constant reminder to the

00:14:12.620 American people that he was one of the few people to ever run for office who actually

00:14:17.300 did what he said he was going to do.

00:14:19.280 You know, when he came down that escalator, he made a lot of promises, and he was the president

00:14:24.960 that actually fulfilled those promises each and every day because he was willing to actually

00:14:31.400 take political risk.

00:14:33.740 And sadly, too many people love the titles instead of loving the responsibility that goes with it.

00:14:41.620 Absolutely.

00:14:42.700 How do you think that Adam Schiff can ever show his face again?

00:14:49.740 I mean, he created this phony set of texts.

00:14:55.600 He created a playwright's version of the president's phone call with President Zelensky of Ukraine.

00:15:03.920 The man is a fraud.

00:15:05.360 He is a liar.

00:15:06.800 You talk about contemptuous.

00:15:08.620 He is everything that should be absolutely scorned in this country.

00:15:13.640 And yet he sits there like a peacock, a pencil neck peacock, wagging a finger at people who

00:15:22.940 are so much better than him in every sense of principle and integrity.

00:15:28.980 Well, he gets a pass by so many in the media.

00:15:32.060 In fact, they play his false statements, whether it be, and you mentioned it, you know, the problem

00:15:38.760 is, is had he just done this one time, that would have been different.

00:15:43.360 You know, had he had just done it to the president over a false pretend-like phone call, you know,

00:15:50.140 where he said he was doing a parody.

00:15:52.180 Well, it got played on all the, most of the mainstream media, not as a parody, but as the truth.

00:15:59.560 In fact, I had people saying, you know, they were quoting Adam Schiff and saying, well, the president

00:16:04.760 said, and I said, but he didn't say that.

00:16:07.080 That's the whole problem.

00:16:08.200 And so what did we see?

00:16:10.160 You know, he returned to his ways and did the same thing to my good friend, Jim Jordan.

00:16:16.300 Let me just tell you, Jim Jordan has not only fought for this country each and every day

00:16:22.640 in the legislature, both in the state house in Ohio and in Congress, but he's willing to

00:16:29.140 not only support President Trump, but support the American people who deserve representation

00:16:36.160 in Washington, D.C.

00:16:37.480 And for Adam Schiff to essentially cut and paste to make Jim Jordan and others look bad,

00:16:48.900 it's just, it's despicable.

00:16:51.120 And it shows the true motive behind the January 6th committee.

00:16:56.260 It's not one that is really trying to make the Capitol safer.

00:17:01.420 They're just trying to make their jobs safer.

00:17:04.080 Well, I've got an idea for the January 6th committee.

00:17:07.320 Investigate why the hell people are still being detained without charges.

00:17:11.000 Why are Americans being treated as though they are third rate citizens of a third world country

00:17:19.480 instead of citizens of the United States?

00:17:21.900 What in the world is going on?

00:17:24.400 Why isn't the committee investigating clearly the state and the status of those people who

00:17:33.240 are quickly being, and far too quickly being, forgotten by people in power who could actually

00:17:40.300 do something about it?

00:17:42.460 Well, it's that.

00:17:44.800 It's the smash and grab.

00:17:46.800 It's the crime across the country.

00:17:48.800 It's, it's so much of what happened in the riots, uh, uh, in 2020, uh, that, that literally,

00:17:57.460 you know, instead of looking into it, they were looking in how to make bail and, and, uh,

00:18:03.800 it's defunding the police.

00:18:05.420 It's not standing on the side of law and, or, you know, it's interesting that, you know,

00:18:10.240 they keep talking about the rule of law, but this is a party that, that really not only

00:18:16.020 wants to defund the police, but wants to replace them with, with social workers across the country,

00:18:22.900 uh, in, in hopes that somehow that's going to send a message, uh, to the woke left.

00:18:30.020 I, I just, uh, listen, I, the president has had a long, uh, in, in steadfast support of

00:18:38.260 our law enforcement that will continue.

00:18:40.360 Uh, and, and it just, it galls me to see, uh, what this committee is ignoring, uh, while

00:18:48.140 they're trying to, uh, put together a, uh, a fictional novel of what supposedly happened,

00:18:54.920 uh, in the, in the last 10 months.

00:18:57.540 Speaking of, uh, books, you have a terrific new book out.

00:19:01.880 We want to be sure to recommend it to our audience.

00:19:05.000 And we do so, uh, highly and enthusiastically, uh, it's called the chief's chief.

00:19:11.260 Uh, and that is of course, Mark Meadows, who served as, uh, president, uh, Trump's chief

00:19:16.760 of staff, uh, in his final year, uh, in the, uh, white house.

00:19:21.220 And, uh, it's a terrific book and a terrific account of that, that period, uh, which seems

00:19:28.040 frankly, so long ago to me, Mark, I don't know about you.

00:19:32.020 It just seems like ages ago, uh, when we had a president who put America first, who, who

00:19:39.160 instilled fear and confusion in the hearts and minds of our enemies, rather than this,

00:19:46.600 uh, feeble, uh, non-entity, uh, who continues to make mistake after mistake, uh, whether

00:19:53.300 it's foreign policy or domestic.

00:19:56.220 Well, Lou, it does seem like a long time ago.

00:19:58.540 And I put that in the book, uh, you know, the, the president, uh, you know, one of my

00:20:03.460 latter conversations with him, as I was finishing up the book, he says, Mark, he says, man, I wish

00:20:09.800 we knew, uh, then what we know now.

00:20:13.420 And the other thing he says, can you imagine it would have gotten this bad, this quick.

00:20:18.800 And my response was no, sir, I can't.

00:20:21.760 And, and yet what we see is, is that he is still willing to take the message to the American

00:20:29.160 people.

00:20:29.620 You know, he's, he's still the only president that I know of that can then go out and get

00:20:34.860 a stadium full of people cheering wildly, um, you know, chanting, we love you because

00:20:42.460 he was willing to remember the forgotten man and woman.

00:20:46.420 And he continues to do that to this day.

00:20:48.920 The final chapter in the book, uh, talks about, uh, the Afghanistan withdrawal and some of the

00:20:55.500 problems that, that secretary Esper and, uh, general Milley had when, when they were serving

00:21:01.900 president Trump, but it also talked about the fact that we didn't have to lose 13 service

00:21:07.700 members because of the plan that, that Donald Trump had in place.

00:21:12.120 And, and it, it closes out by talking about the fact that in my opinion, we need four more

00:21:18.640 years of Donald Trump.

00:21:20.260 We're going to, we're going to find out about that.

00:21:22.580 I think, uh, quicker than many people think, because, uh, we are racing toward that midterm

00:21:29.260 election in 2022, uh, and, uh, it's, we've got to fix what we can about the house and the

00:21:37.300 Senate.

00:21:37.760 I know that there's great optimism about the Republicans winning.

00:21:41.520 Uh, but I have to say to you, Mark, I'm very concerned about the leadership of the RNC.

00:21:45.800 I'm very concerned about the rhinos that, that still infest the, uh, Republican party.

00:21:52.220 Uh, your thoughts here as, uh, as we wind down.

00:21:56.040 Yeah, Lou, you've been very, uh, candid about your assessment and quite frankly, uh, willing

00:22:04.600 to hold the Republican party accountable and they need to be held accountable.

00:22:08.480 I can tell you, it's not enough just to have a Republican majority with an R behind their

00:22:13.960 name.

00:22:14.320 It needs to be people who are willing to stand up for the forgotten man and woman.

00:22:19.140 It needs to be Republicans who are willing to actually stand in the gap for the people

00:22:24.800 they represent.

00:22:26.220 And ultimately at the end of the day, what it needs to be are people who are willing to

00:22:31.920 hold their job very loosely and stand on principle and make a difference and truly train and drain

00:22:38.960 the swamp.

00:22:39.640 That's what president Trump needs in 2024.

00:22:43.020 Those are the kinds of people that we need to make sure we elect in 2022. 0.51

00:22:46.540 And, uh, I couldn't agree with you more.

00:22:50.420 I, and, uh, and I hope that you'll be amongst those leading that effort.

00:22:55.660 Uh, what say you?

00:22:58.540 Well, I, I have no plans to run for office again.

00:23:01.960 Uh, I am going to stay, as you know, I'm working, uh, for a conservative nonprofit, the

00:23:07.020 conservative partnership Institute in Washington, DC.

00:23:10.480 I'm working with a lot of those freedom fighters that are willing to actually have backbones

00:23:16.200 of steel.

00:23:17.040 So, uh, I'm going to work behind the scenes to help them to make sure that they're there.

00:23:22.260 And, uh, and should, uh, president Trump decide to run again, do my very best to make sure

00:23:28.760 that, uh, I get a good seat at his, uh, second inauguration.

00:23:33.980 Well, we're all looking forward to that.

00:23:36.680 I tell you, uh, it's, uh, I I've said, I don't know whether he's going to run or not,

00:23:42.020 but I do know this, uh, that he deserves the country, uh, uh, drafting him and putting him

00:23:50.000 in office by acclamation for what he has had to endure his family and all, uh, uh, of those

00:23:57.000 who have made his presidency possible, uh, and foremost amongst those, in my opinion,

00:24:02.660 uh, that is Mark Meadows.

00:24:05.400 Uh, I mean, they, they all deserve so much better.

00:24:08.640 And I think the American people, uh, would agree with that sentiment.

00:24:12.460 Now we got to hope that, uh, he makes the right choice, right?

00:24:17.060 Well, I, I, I hope he does, you know, I, I believe he will, I don't speak for the president

00:24:23.480 and I don't speak for his campaign, but I do talk to him an awful lot.

00:24:27.700 And I, I think that, uh, at the end of the day, uh, Donald Trump will be the nominee and

00:24:34.520 he will, he will get the four more years, uh, despite, uh, the very aggressive partisan

00:24:40.440 attacks that he continues to get each and every day.

00:24:44.160 Yeah.

00:24:44.760 And, uh, Mark Meadows is amongst the, all of his great qualities, an outstanding political

00:24:50.560 prognosticator.

00:24:51.780 So you heard it here first on the great America show with Mark Meadows.

00:24:55.480 Mark, great to have you with us.

00:24:57.760 I wish you all the best, my friend.

00:24:59.700 And, uh, uh, my Deb and I are amongst those praying for your, uh, success and vindication

00:25:05.580 and soon, uh, I'd like to pray a little bit about those Democrats, but I don't think that

00:25:11.300 would be in the spirit of the thing.

00:25:13.140 Do you?

00:25:15.080 Probably not, but we, I appreciate your prayers, Lou, all the best to, to you and your wife

00:25:21.480 and all those that are tuned in right now, uh, God bless them and God bless America.

00:25:27.640 Thank you so much.

00:25:28.620 Mark Meadows, Mark, a great American in every way.

00:25:31.980 Uh, and, uh, his book, we recommend it to you highly.

00:25:35.500 Uh, it is the chief's chief, a great read, as they say, go out and buy two copies and tell

00:25:41.980 your friends and neighbors to grab two, get two folks to buy a couple more.

00:25:46.580 So, uh, the book is the chief's chief.

00:25:49.640 It's available now online and in bookstores, uh, everywhere that we, uh, appreciate Mark

00:25:56.360 taking the time in the middle of this ordeal, uh, that he's going through to, to talk with

00:26:01.920 us.

00:26:02.220 We wish him the very best.

00:26:03.840 We'll continue with the great America show in just one minute.

00:26:08.300 Welcome back to the great America show, the most important trusted podcast in all the

00:26:13.840 world.

00:26:14.280 If CNN can make such a hyperbolic claim about their audience, then we certainly can we're

00:26:21.580 a whole month in existence now.

00:26:23.360 And I want to say, thank you all as always for your support, we're growing and growing

00:26:29.160 mightily.

00:26:29.960 We're still an acorn, but we're a big acorn now.

00:26:33.060 And here we go.

00:26:34.380 The political cross currents in the United States right now are intensifying and pressure

00:26:39.520 is building on our political economy.

00:26:41.620 The Biden presidency is creating much of that strain.

00:26:45.360 Biden himself is weak and old, a man not given to honesty or great judgment.

00:26:51.200 His poll numbers reflect his ineptitude and that of his vice president.

00:26:55.740 She's trying desperately.

00:26:57.180 It seems to turn a page these days, trying to project what is certainly unnatural warmth.

00:27:03.900 She actually claimed the other day she really, really, honestly likes people.

00:27:09.580 You can tell, can't you?

00:27:11.060 It's the small beginning of a charm offensive that lacks at this point only charm.

00:27:17.920 Harris is trying to fend off critics who portray her as hateful, mean, a nasty person

00:27:23.760 who not only is contemptuous of her staff and others in the White House, but is uninterested

00:27:29.700 in her daily duties and service to the nation.

00:27:32.480 So with all the drama within the administration, Mr. Biden is contending still with Vladimir

00:27:39.460 Putin, continuing his buildup of troops, threatening Ukraine.

00:27:44.160 Europe has made it clear to Putin there will be grave consequences if he invades Ukraine.

00:27:50.360 Putin doesn't seem in the least concerned.

00:27:53.780 Here at home, the issues, a lack of leadership, a confused high court, rhino activist, liberal

00:27:59.860 chief justice, Roberts, begging his associates on the right to leave Roe v.

00:28:05.060 Wade untouched by their originalist, textualist interpretations of the Constitution.

00:28:11.520 Roberts, as usual, playing to his many friends on the left.

00:28:16.180 There are only two friends on the left, however, on the high court.

00:28:20.040 The economic headwinds are beginning to howl, whether it's trillions more of what could be

00:28:26.080 destructive fiscal stimulus, Mr. Biden's Build Back Better bill, or the continued dislocation

00:28:32.820 of the global supply chain in its many variations.

00:28:36.840 So here with us now to guide us through these complexities, events, and issues, Professor Steve

00:28:43.100 Hanke, Professor of Applied Economics at Johns Hopkins University.

00:28:47.740 And great to have you back with us, Steve.

00:28:50.200 We're all looking for assured prosperity in America, but there also may be a few setbacks,

00:28:56.260 I understand.

00:28:57.520 Your judgment about where we are and where we're headed.

00:29:01.000 We're sinking in the swamp that's down there south of Baltimore, where I'm speaking from.

00:29:09.280 Inflation really has become a big issue.

00:29:14.400 Even some of the Democrats finally have come around to pointing a finger at the source of

00:29:22.040 the problem, which is the Federal Reserve and the mismanagement of the Federal Reserve,

00:29:27.260 Lou.

00:29:27.860 They have exploded the money supply since COVID.

00:29:32.020 And as we all know, inflation is everywhere and always a monetary phenomenon.

00:29:41.220 The money supply drives inflation.

00:29:44.600 Forget the supply chains and all the ad hoc reasons they come up with for the explanation

00:29:52.680 of causality.

00:29:54.200 It's all about money, too much money, excess money.

00:29:58.180 And we've got now an inflation that's, you know, record levels for us.

00:30:06.200 I mean, 6.8%, pretty hot.

00:30:08.780 Now, John Greenwood, the chief economist at Invesco in London, and I read an article in

00:30:15.020 the Wall Street Journal in July.

00:30:17.700 And we said in that article that inflation would end the year 2021 at 6% or even as high as 9%.

00:30:30.820 And so you have to ask the question, well, how could we write that in July?

00:30:35.480 What were we thinking about?

00:30:36.860 And we were using the quantity theory of money, the kind of Milton Friedman, plain vanilla quantity

00:30:46.480 theory of money that's been around clearly since the 17th century.

00:30:51.060 And that says that if you produce excess money, that excess money is going to go into inflation.

00:30:57.640 And that's exactly what's happened.

00:31:00.500 Well, and when you say forget the Federal Reserve and forget about rather the fiscal stimulus and

00:31:08.640 they build back better bill, for example, we're talking about now in fiscal stimulus over $5

00:31:15.140 trillion, not to include fiscal 2020.

00:31:21.200 This is that's that's money.

00:31:24.080 It's not real money, but it's money.

00:31:25.980 It goes into the money base.

00:31:27.540 It goes into M through M zero through M four in a hurry.

00:31:34.820 It's it really is stimulus and it really is piling on and against that asset, those assets

00:31:43.540 on the balance sheet of the Fed.

00:31:45.460 I mean, we're looking at the most overheated economy and prospect in, well, anything we've

00:31:52.080 seen since the 70s, certainly.

00:31:53.540 Well, that's true.

00:31:56.660 Now, here's here's the way it's working, as you describe it, which is correct.

00:32:02.880 So it starts with the fiscal operation.

00:32:07.680 A lot of government spending, as you say.

00:32:10.100 Everyone knows this.

00:32:11.380 They've been spending money like drunken sailors down there and running up a big deficit.

00:32:16.140 So to finance the deficit, the government issues bonds.

00:32:21.640 And this is where the money part comes and the inflation comes.

00:32:26.480 The Fed has been buying those bonds.

00:32:29.980 They've been what they call monetizing the debt.

00:32:32.620 Right.

00:32:33.540 And when that and that that that all these M's that you're talking about, the money supply

00:32:38.460 measures, M zero, M one, M two and three and four and so forth.

00:32:42.540 So that that that is what comes out of this expanded government spending, government deficit, key, the key Fed monetizing the debt by buying these bonds and expanding their balance sheet at the Fed and expanding the money supply.

00:32:59.700 Right. Now, now, now that let me just go.

00:33:04.500 That's what's been happening.

00:33:06.040 And that's why we that's why we have a big increase in the money supply.

00:33:09.540 But it's the money supply.

00:33:11.080 If you don't increase the money supply, then you will not get inflation.

00:33:16.000 Now, let's go through a scenario where that would happen.

00:33:19.640 They let's say they were they were spending all this money.

00:33:23.160 They were running up deficits and the Fed wasn't buying the debt.

00:33:27.740 They were selling the debt to the non-bank public.

00:33:32.200 Well, that would not create inflation, Lou, because it would suck money out of the private sector. 0.98

00:33:38.180 If Lou Dobbs was buying bonds from the government, you would have to give up income and it would be just like a tax.

00:33:47.100 Right.

00:33:47.220 It would be the same.

00:33:48.160 The only difference is you'd actually get your principal and interest back from buying a bond rather than a tax.

00:33:54.660 So so this it's it's a little bit tricky for people to get their their head around government spending and government deficits does not necessarily lead to inflation.

00:34:08.040 It if the bonds are not purchased by the Federal Reserve, the central bank and monetized.

00:34:16.960 So they're so called operations at the Fed.

00:34:22.080 They create money when they buy and they draw money when they sell.

00:34:29.380 Right.

00:34:29.500 Right.

00:34:29.880 Exactly.

00:34:30.900 Exactly.

00:34:31.540 So they've been buying at an enormous clip.

00:34:37.160 And and and that is what is expanded the money supply.

00:34:41.540 And with the expansion of the money supply, it's it's been excessive and and that excessive expansion is what's causing the inflation.

00:34:51.500 Now, the interesting thing about it, you say, well, we don't read about this in the press.

00:34:58.360 The press you read the press there.

00:35:01.840 There's not even a mention of the word money or money supply in the press.

00:35:06.500 It's never there.

00:35:07.680 They have all these ad hoc reasonings and and the ad hoc reasons our supply chain is causing it.

00:35:16.780 The plug port and Long Beach, the covid, the used cars.

00:35:23.340 We don't we can't produce enough cars because semiconductor problems.

00:35:27.300 And you name it, there there is an infinite there are an infinite variety of ad hoc reasons for inflation.

00:35:35.860 They're all irrelevant and they're all wrong.

00:35:38.400 The only thing causing inflation is the money supply, period.

00:35:44.400 And by the way, this this is something you've been on for years.

00:35:48.980 If you look at the press, the press is complicit in all of this cover up because it is a cover up all these ad hoc reasons.

00:35:59.660 And and they don't report it because they bought the spin coming out of Washington or they're just it's possible they're just incompetent and don't get it that way.

00:36:11.760 But the bottom line is Hankey's 95 percent rule, Hankey's 95 percent rule is that everything 95 percent of what you read in the financial press is either wrong or irrelevant.

00:36:26.400 And and 95 percent, maybe even higher on this inflation thing is either wrong or irrelevant.

00:36:34.120 Or they're trying to push their own book.

00:36:36.020 Or that, yeah, absolutely put a lot of pushing their own book.

00:36:41.120 I mean, they they basically are buying the spin that's coming out of Washington.

00:36:45.400 And the spin is don't blame us.

00:36:49.180 Blame the other guy.

00:36:50.420 Blame the guy behind the tree.

00:36:54.260 With that state, we've you know that I think that's what we call a pretty thorough tiptoeing through the weeds here a little on economics.

00:37:02.540 And I but I got to tell you, folks can put up with us.

00:37:06.640 They you gave them a very good tutorial and I'm sure that everybody appreciates it as much as I do.

00:37:14.800 Now, let's turn to.

00:37:16.980 Yeah, let me before we turn the page, Lou, the key thing is and the thing that Greenwood and I were talking about even back in July is this inflation is not going to be temporary.

00:37:29.840 Remember, that's part of the spin.

00:37:31.460 Oh, transitory, transitory, transitory.

00:37:35.020 Yeah, team, team transitory.

00:37:37.120 Paul Krugman, New York Times, all Janet Yellen, Janet Yellen, Jerome Powell, President Biden, you name it.

00:37:47.660 Every dog and cat you can find is telling us this thing is going to be transitory.

00:37:52.920 No, it's going to be persistent.

00:37:54.620 This rate that we've got between six and nine percent will last through 2024, just given the excess money that's already been produced.

00:38:07.480 And it's it's it's what I say.

00:38:11.040 Steve, what through what year I missed that?

00:38:14.740 2024.

00:38:16.260 All right.

00:38:16.920 All right.

00:38:17.300 And are you saying that we're looking at a ceiling at six point eight?

00:38:22.860 No, no, no.

00:38:24.620 This this this is this forecast is based on the assumption that the Fed will actually start slowing down the money supply.

00:38:37.560 Right now, the money supply is growing at a little over 12 percent measured by M sub two.

00:38:44.440 And that's double the rate that would be consistent with hitting the Fed's inflation target at two percent.

00:38:51.940 Right. So Green Greenwood and I have assumed in this forecast that quickly they will reduce the growth in the money supply down to around six percent.

00:39:03.340 Get it get it in the zone where it where it has been and where it should be.

00:39:07.460 And then we will still have this this inflation of around six to nine percent going into 2024 because they've already produced the excess money.

00:39:19.700 In other words, this government spending and the government deficit and the monetization of that has already created a huge amount of excess money that will be drained out of the system and inflation over these next two or three years.

00:39:37.160 All right.

00:39:37.320 So I want to ask you about some of the implications so people can put some money in their pocket or save the money they've got or at least have a very much better understanding of what these markets are going to do.

00:39:49.700 What they're going to do and what they should expect in terms of our standard of living, our quality of life and our financial situations.

00:40:02.280 If the inflation rate is going to do that through 24, we're talking about, I think, as I understand you correctly, four to four to six percent real inflation.

00:40:16.920 And people want to know, should they be buying Bitcoin?

00:40:20.620 Should they buy gold?

00:40:21.860 Should they get out of stock?

00:40:23.300 Should they buy stocks?

00:40:24.720 So let's start with stocks in that environment.

00:40:27.900 What is the history of staying in the market as inflation, inflation that we haven't seen for at least 40 years?

00:40:37.840 And I think you've got to go back even farther to get a level like this.

00:40:42.400 What is the what is what are your prospects if you're an investor in the stock market?

00:40:48.420 OK, the best place to start is to look at the bond markets and see what the bond market actually is pricing in right now in terms of inflation.

00:41:01.300 And if we do that, we find surprisingly that the market has bought into this spin coming out of Washington.

00:41:13.820 They've priced in the the the transitory scenario for the next year.

00:41:21.300 If you if you look at the forward curves and expectations about inflation, they're pricing in about three and a half percent inflation for the next year.

00:41:30.880 Well, we're already at six point eight.

00:41:32.720 So how in the world are they doing that?

00:41:34.860 So that's a mispricing right there.

00:41:36.800 Then if you go beyond one year, Lou, that the rates drop to two to two and a half percent inflation is priced into the market.

00:41:46.320 So my view is since since we already know that baked in the cake, we're going to have at least six percent inflation for the for the next two or three years, at least six percent, no matter no matter what the Fed does.

00:42:02.120 Right. We have a massive mispricing of the bond market.

00:42:06.300 We're going to have the biggest train wreck in the bond market that we've seen in the history of man because of this mispricing.

00:42:17.120 Now, that will cause number one, the what's what's going to happen.

00:42:23.280 Of course, the bond bond prices will tank for nominal bonds.

00:42:26.940 I'm not talking about Treasury inflation protected securities tips bonds because they're protected from from inflation.

00:42:34.720 But the nominal bond, by the way, I think we should say that when we talk about the tips bonds, that that is a very good choice for those who want to be cautious and to be insulated to a considerable degree against inflation.

00:42:49.940 Is that a correct statement?

00:42:51.240 That's correct. Yes, that's absolutely correct.

00:42:53.920 That's it. It's the only way if you're in the bond market, that's the only way you can protect yourself.

00:42:59.600 Definitely. And in general, that is a good way to protect yourself.

00:43:04.680 It is conservative, but it is it is protective.

00:43:09.980 Now, the bond market is is just absolutely going to be killed and and riled up.

00:43:16.240 Now, that will you ask about equities, Lou.

00:43:19.520 I started with bonds and this what is an obvious, massive mispricing in the bond market is going to come home to roost with a lot of adjustments in the bond market.

00:43:33.160 A lot of blood is going to be on the street and that will slop over into the stock market that it will rile the stock market tremendously.

00:43:43.340 So right now, I think there are a lot of risk, not obviously in the bond market, but also in the stock market.

00:43:52.640 And so what do you what do you what do you do?

00:43:55.160 Well, you buy commodities.

00:43:58.000 That's that's always the classic inflation head or or real assets of any kind.

00:44:03.940 You know, we've already seen huge increases in asset prices and in homes and apartments, real estate, real estate.

00:44:12.000 I'm not talking about commercial real estate.

00:44:14.140 I'm talking about residential real estate.

00:44:16.640 So that's still I think I think that's a winner.

00:44:19.660 And related to that, by the way, home builders and the equity markets, home builders are still, I think, a good bet in the stock market.

00:44:30.820 And principally because of the low inventory of residential housing, single home housing in this country.

00:44:42.080 I mean, it's crazy.

00:44:43.560 Yeah.

00:44:43.920 Is that your reasoning?

00:44:46.380 Yes.

00:44:46.860 Yes.

00:44:47.220 We're behind.

00:44:48.020 We're behind the curve after the adjustment and the Great Recession, you know, the mortgage crisis in 2008.

00:44:57.460 Things really slowed down and the market adjusted and so forth.

00:45:01.940 But but in the in the process of that adjustment, the adjustment, of course, adjusted, but it adjusted maybe a little bit too far.

00:45:11.600 So we've got a backlog, a backlog of construction that has to take place.

00:45:17.180 And that means that home builders are probably in pretty good shape.

00:45:20.740 They're going to they're going to have a good rigorous demand facing them for quite some time.

00:45:27.300 Now, people listening to you, Steve, are thinking to themselves, well, I'm we're talking inflation.

00:45:32.560 I'm heading for the hills.

00:45:33.860 I want to buy Bitcoin.

00:45:36.060 I want to buy gold.

00:45:37.140 Let's just assume that for right now, those are the only two avenues to go.

00:45:42.280 Which would you take and what are the risks for both?

00:45:45.040 Oh, gold.

00:45:45.820 There's no question about it.

00:45:47.180 I mean, gold.

00:45:49.560 Gold has been around for thousands of years.

00:45:52.800 And in fact, there's a there's a classic book called The Golden Constant, which is still in print.

00:46:00.540 And the golden constant is that if you really want to protect yourself over long periods of time and protect yourself with constant purchasing power, gold is the way to go.

00:46:12.680 That's the golden constant.

00:46:14.040 So this goes back two or three thousand years.

00:46:17.840 If you if you have an ounce of gold, it'll always buy you essentially the same packet of goods and services.

00:46:25.620 Are you wary of Bitcoin?

00:46:27.980 Now, Bitcoin is completely another ballgame because Bitcoin, if if you like to go to casinos and gamble, then Bitcoin is for you.

00:46:42.260 You're you're you're just rolling the dice.

00:46:45.060 This is a highly, very highly speculative asset that I think has a fundamental value of zero, actually.

00:46:55.140 It is not.

00:46:56.320 By the way, it's it's not used for anything but speculation.

00:47:00.340 It's not it has no industrial use.

00:47:03.020 Obviously, it's just up there virtual in the sky.

00:47:06.800 It's not used for many transactions.

00:47:09.340 Very few transactions take place in Bitcoin.

00:47:12.040 You can't go in and buy a cup of coffee in those places and Bitcoin or groceries or anything like that.

00:47:19.020 The transactions that are used, about half of them are involved in money laundering and illegal activities.

00:47:26.540 Right.

00:47:27.800 And those and and if that isn't good enough to give a person a pause, I would like to remind everybody that, you know, when you've got El Salvador and communist China behind a speculative investment, a speculative asset.

00:47:45.360 I'll put it that way if it's even an asset, you might give, you know, you might scratch your head and say, no, thank you.

00:47:52.020 I've got to be very direct about this, Steve.

00:47:55.040 I could have made a lot of money at Bitcoin, but I think it's I have thought from the very beginning that it is an absolute crapshoot with the advent of the involvement of the communist China behind its mining, behind its its transactions. 0.94

00:48:15.500 In many parts of the world, there's no way in the world I touch most of the mining for Bitcoin was in China.

00:48:23.640 But remember, China, even China has cut that out.

00:48:27.540 They they now forbid Bitcoin mining.

00:48:30.400 And now, where is the biggest center for mining Bitcoin?

00:48:34.400 It's in the United States.

00:48:37.540 In China, you have to believe that they've quit mining.

00:48:42.800 I don't.

00:48:44.360 I don't believe for a moment.

00:48:45.940 I think that it's a play against the reserve currency, which is the dollar, of course, that they want to see how far they can extend it.

00:48:52.720 But that's just my view.

00:48:53.680 So, you know, just on that, on that one, my view is not your view.

00:49:02.360 That's fine.

00:49:03.560 And anyway, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's why we that's why we get on here and exchange views.

00:49:11.640 Absolutely.

00:49:12.780 And the other part is, it's interesting.

00:49:15.100 We can argue about it, but we come to the same conclusion.

00:49:17.960 So, yeah, yeah.

00:49:19.360 Well, stay.

00:49:20.000 Yeah.

00:49:20.560 Yeah.

00:49:20.960 The same conclusion.

00:49:21.920 Yes.

00:49:22.760 If you if you like to go to casinos, if you like to go to Vegas, roll a dice on Bitcoin.

00:49:30.460 I I'm not going to I'm I'm not one to prohibit people from doing things that I would I wouldn't necessarily do.

00:49:40.160 Each individual should be free to choose what they want to do.

00:49:44.140 Oh, I see.

00:49:45.520 I'll guarantee you this audience knows about they know they've got a choice and they make sure that those choices are.

00:49:51.920 They're are assured this is a this is a tough, smart, independent, whether they're Republican or moderate or conservative, whatever you want to call them.

00:50:04.300 You know, they're they believe in choice, because that's what this country is about, Steve, we're we've gone way over talking about things that I think a lot of people need to know.

00:50:15.320 I hope that everybody has stayed with us through this.

00:50:18.800 It's been very informative and I appreciate you taking the time.

00:50:23.860 As always, we give you the last word.

00:50:26.820 All of our guests, the last word.

00:50:28.980 And Steve, thanks for being with us.

00:50:31.400 And here you go.

00:50:33.120 Your last word.

00:50:33.900 Don't touch Bitcoin and don't touch build back better.

00:50:41.160 Amen.

00:50:42.800 I'd love the the projection at important school, their model, four point six trillion dollars, they say, is the actual cost.

00:50:52.920 And the Biden White House says it's zero.

00:50:54.840 I don't think there's a better, better example of what's wrong right now with the White House and the swamp, as you so eloquently put it.

00:51:05.400 Lou, the interesting thing is that the public is getting wise to this.

00:51:10.640 The Federal National Mortgage Association just did a survey and 70 percent of the participants in the survey indicated that they thought President Biden was wrong way Corrigan.

00:51:25.760 Yeah.

00:51:26.240 Well, you know what?

00:51:28.180 That should that should re re instill confidence in our fellow citizens to see that that poll result.

00:51:37.340 I know it it warms my heart.

00:51:39.800 It means that this country is still functioning and has some healthy skepticism about government.

00:51:46.660 Steve Hanke, thanks for being with us, partner.

00:51:49.420 And I look forward to our next conversation.

00:51:52.360 Appreciate it.

00:51:52.680 Thank you, Lou.

00:51:53.640 Good to be with you.

00:51:54.860 Thanks so much.

00:51:56.640 Join us again tomorrow for the Great America podcast.

00:51:59.840 Stay in the fight.

00:52:00.800 Truth, justice and the American way will prevail against all enemies, against all odds.

The Great America Show - December 21, 2021

WITCHHUNTS, RADICAL DEMS AND BIDENFLATION

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