The Joe Rogan Experience

00:00:07.000 All right, CT, we live.

00:00:09.000 What's up?

00:00:09.000 Hey, finally!

00:00:11.000 Finally.

00:00:11.000 Across the table from Joe Rogan himself.

00:00:14.000 My pleasure, man.

00:00:15.000 I watched your Netflix documentary today.

00:00:17.000 Did you?

00:00:18.000 It's great, man.

00:00:18.000 It's intense.

00:00:19.000 Thank you very much.

00:00:20.000 I appreciate it.

00:00:21.000 When I first saw it, I was like, what is this going to be about?

00:00:24.000 But you get into it, and you're like, whoa, there's a lot going on in this documentary.

00:00:28.000 That guy says more than fuck, huh?

00:00:31.000 It's not just that.

00:00:32.000 It's like they just went deep into your life and to everything.

00:00:36.000 The struggles, the heart condition, the whole deal, man.

00:00:40.000 It's heavy.

00:00:41.000 They did a pretty good job.

00:00:42.000 Yeah.

00:00:43.000 So where are you standing now, health-wise?

00:00:45.000 Oh, okay.

00:00:48.000 Yeah, I fought my way back, and just recently this June, had another setback, had another major setback, had a heart attack out of the blue, and I thought I was a goner again, Joe, but I'm still here.

00:01:03.000 So you had a heart attack, they fixed your heart, they put in an artificial valve, and then what happened with the second valve?

00:01:12.000 Okay, that lasted for 12 years.

00:01:14.000 I had 05. I had the open-heart surgery.

00:01:17.000 I actually passed away or flatlined three times during that surgery.

00:01:21.000 And then this past June, out of the blue, I'm thinking, well, it's not really out of the blue.

00:01:26.000 I kind of had a few signs, but I thought I, you know, I didn't think it was that serious.

00:01:30.000 I had another heart attack sitting on the couch at home, and I thought I was gone for sure, man.

00:01:38.000 Well, what's confusing to a lot of people is you're obviously this, like, intense, healthy guy.

00:01:44.000 And you're fit, and you're lifting weights, and you're looking jacked.

00:01:48.000 Like, is it a condition that you were born with, a genetic condition?

00:01:53.000 It is most definitely hereditary.

00:01:57.000 And all nine of her siblings all passed away from heart-related problems.

00:02:02.000 And my mom had the CHF and lungs and, you know, so none of them lived past 72. My mom died at 63. They all passed away from me.

00:02:11.000 How old are you now?

00:02:12.000 I'm 58. And so you've gotten through two of them so far?

00:02:16.000 Yeah, so far.

00:02:17.000 And what did they do after the second heart attack?

00:02:20.000 Well, the next thing, I had a pacemaker installed, and I already had the metal valve, and I think they've done just about all they can do to this oil.

00:02:30.000 This one I got whipped me down, so they tell me the next step is a transplant.

00:02:37.000 Man, that's intense.

00:02:39.000 Yeah, but you know what, Joe?

00:02:42.000 It's not so intense for me.

00:02:45.000 I think I have an advantage to somebody else who might be getting the news.

00:02:52.000 And that advantage is I've been through so much already, man.

00:02:58.000 When you flatline three times, it ain't too much else can throw you for too many loops.

00:03:03.000 I got a lot of faith.

00:03:05.000 Yeah.

00:03:06.000 Now, so are you in line for a transplant now?

00:03:09.000 Is that how that works?

00:03:10.000 Yeah.

00:03:10.000 Well, it's a really long process to even get on the list.

00:03:15.000 So I'm going through that process now.

00:03:18.000 I'm almost through the end, but it's a really long process.

00:03:23.000 They presented my case to the doctors who performed the actual transplant, and they said that I'm a good candidate, and everything's looking up right now, except I may have a little throwback.

00:03:34.000 I had a cancer biopsy yesterday, and if that's positive, then that's going to hold me up a little bit.

00:03:42.000 Oh, Jesus Christ, man.

00:03:43.000 Yeah.

00:03:44.000 Fuck.

00:03:45.000 Yeah, I know.

00:03:46.000 It's just crazy, because when you look at a guy like you, and you look at you, especially when you're in your prime, you think, there's nothing that's going to stop this guy.

00:03:53.000 Shit, I didn't think so either.

00:03:56.000 I mean, I feel like your muscles are strong, your heart's a muscle.

00:03:59.000 Shit, his heart's got to be ridiculous.

00:04:01.000 Yeah, I thought it was indestructible, Joe, but obviously I was wrong.

00:04:07.000 Well, you pretty much, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but you pretty much became famous from the internet, right?

00:04:12.000 Oh, definitely.

00:04:12.000 That's really what launched you, right?

00:04:13.000 Definitely.

00:04:15.000 Nobody knew who I was until I was 53 years old.

00:04:19.000 When I was world champion, nobody knew or gave a fuck about who So that's pretty much when I found out about you then.

00:04:24.000 When you first started making YouTube videos, that's when I found out about you.

00:04:28.000 I think someone on Twitter sent me a...

00:04:31.000 People send me cool shit on Twitter all the time.

00:04:34.000 I can retweet it or I'll find out about it and send it to other people.

00:04:38.000 And someone sent me some, well, I've seen a bunch of your videos, but one of them was you working out with Tyron Woodley, UFC welterweight champion.

00:04:45.000 And I was like, Jesus Christ, he's going to break them.

00:04:47.000 He got Tyron doing all these crazy supersets and all this different shit.

00:04:51.000 So have you worked with a lot of MMA fighters?

00:04:54.000 Not a lot, but a few.

00:04:58.000 Oh man, are we going to talk about the fake feud?

00:05:02.000 Yeah, we can talk about it, but it wasn't a fake feud.

00:05:07.000 Oh man, it really...

00:05:08.000 Your light is killing me.

00:05:10.000 It just keeps lighting your face up.

00:05:13.000 We've got to talk about it.

00:05:15.000 We've got to talk about it.

00:05:16.000 Well, people thought that we were really upset at each other.

00:05:18.000 The debate was, and this is a constant debate in MMA, whether big muscles enhance you or hurt you.

00:05:25.000 And my take on it is they do both.

00:05:29.000 My take on it is the bigger the muscle, the more power you have.

00:05:32.000 And I think Tyron is a perfect example of a guy who's figured out how to use them perfectly.

00:05:36.000 Like, what he does is he conserves his energy, and when he sprints, you can't stop him.

00:05:40.000 So, like, when he's in the cage and he has these moments of explosion, the amount of horsepower that he can generate in a short period of time is just above and beyond everybody else in the division.

00:05:51.000 And it's a terrifying thing for everybody in the division.

00:05:54.000 But he can't operate at the same pace constantly like some of the guys can.

00:05:59.000 Some of the guys who have less muscle, they're carrying around less mass.

00:06:02.000 They have less oxygen requirements.

00:06:05.000 They can go longer, but they just can't generate the same kind of power.

00:06:09.000 But what Tyron's figured out how to do pretty brilliantly is how to conserve his energy into these bursts.

00:06:16.000 And then now, like his big criticism earlier in his career was that he would gas out as he got into the later rounds.

00:06:21.000 But now he's able to fight five rounds no problem.

00:06:24.000 He just fights it at his pace.

00:06:26.000 Exactly.

00:06:27.000 But that's not exactly I want to start it with this, Joe.

00:06:31.000 Okay.

00:06:32.000 Now, for all the people who said that I would never be able to sit down across the table from Joe Rogan, I want to take a special moment to say, fuck y'all right now.

00:06:45.000 I'm here.

00:06:47.000 And I attacked him.

00:06:50.000 Joe Rogan on the internet.

00:06:53.000 I attacked him.

00:06:54.000 And I want to explain.

00:06:55.000 I got the opportunity to explain to you.

00:06:57.000 It's true.

00:06:57.000 I did attack Joe Rogan.

00:07:00.000 And I have the opportunity to explain to you why exactly I did that.

00:07:05.000 Okay.

00:07:06.000 And I want to do that because I don't want you to think I'm just an asshole.

00:07:09.000 No, I didn't think you were an asshole at all.

00:07:11.000 It didn't bother me at all.

00:07:12.000 Oh, okay.

00:07:13.000 You didn't change my feelings.

00:07:14.000 I never attacked you back.

00:07:15.000 No, you sure didn't.

00:07:17.000 But you know what you did do, Joe?

00:07:19.000 What?

00:07:19.000 That I couldn't get you to do before that?

00:07:22.000 Was you actually talked to me.

00:07:24.000 You were trying to talk to me before that?

00:07:26.000 I wanted to talk to you, Joe.

00:07:27.000 I didn't know that.

00:07:28.000 I had people, you know, because I'm really cool with a lot of UFC fighters, and I said, I wonder if he even knows me, but I had people that was especially set out to keep tagging you until you...

00:07:44.000 We're going to get you on the podcast.

00:07:46.000 People try to do that.

00:07:47.000 That shit does not work.

00:07:48.000 This is the best way to not get on the podcast is to get a bunch of people to try to get you on the podcast.

00:07:53.000 Oh my God.

00:07:55.000 Hey Joe, we want to have CTO. My response is always, Joe, he probably don't even know who the fuck I am, man.

00:08:03.000 Just quit tagging him.

00:08:04.000 He don't even know who the fuck I am.

00:08:06.000 Just quit tagging him.

00:08:07.000 Don't bother the man.

00:08:08.000 That was my response to them all the time.

00:08:11.000 I just said, look, Don't bother Joe.

00:08:13.000 He's busy.

00:08:14.000 He don't know who the fuck I am.

00:08:15.000 I'm not in that league, so don't even bother him.

00:08:19.000 Then I said, well, you know what?

00:08:20.000 I got these fighters.

00:08:21.000 I know all these fighters, and they friendly with me.

00:08:25.000 I said, maybe Joe do know who I am.

00:08:28.000 And I'm like, you know, after a while, maybe Joe just don't like my ass, you know?

00:08:32.000 So I said, you know, so when the Tyron Williams thing came up and Joe was talking about the muscular guy, I said, well, you know, here's my opportunity.

00:08:38.000 I said, hey, Joe, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

00:08:41.000 And as soon as I said, hey, Joe, that motherfucker don't know what the fuck he's talking about, then you responded to me.

00:08:47.000 Well, I responded to you because I like you.

00:08:48.000 Oh, wow.

00:08:49.000 That's why I responded to you.

00:08:51.000 That's why I didn't attack you back.

00:08:53.000 I get why people...

00:08:56.000 Here's the thing.

00:08:57.000 I get why people would think that I don't respond because I don't like you.

00:09:00.000 I just can't keep up.

00:09:01.000 Oh, man, I understand.

00:09:03.000 I found out I have 1.6 million fake followers, though.

00:09:07.000 Oh, wow.

00:09:08.000 Apparently, that's not a real good measurement, the Twitter audit.

00:09:13.000 It's just people who don't use their account to tweet.

00:09:15.000 Maybe they just check Twitter.

00:09:16.000 I don't know.

00:09:17.000 I don't know whether or not.

00:09:18.000 But I've never paid for any of the fake ones.

00:09:20.000 They might be Russian bots.

00:09:22.000 I don't know what it is.

00:09:23.000 But...

00:09:24.000 There's too many people.

00:09:26.000 Yeah, it is.

00:09:26.000 If I look at my mentions, and then at least 1% of them are assholes.

00:09:31.000 So you read one asshole's thing, it's like, fuck this.

00:09:33.000 Just put your phone down.

00:09:34.000 So it's not a matter of me not liking people.

00:09:38.000 It's a matter of me being in an impossible situation.

00:09:41.000 There's no way I can keep up with all those people.

00:09:42.000 You're the only one guy.

00:09:44.000 I understand that completely.

00:09:45.000 I am the only one guy.

00:09:46.000 I don't let anybody fuck with my Twitter.

00:09:48.000 Nobody's doing that.

00:09:49.000 That's all me.

00:09:50.000 Wow.

00:09:50.000 Yeah, so if you get a tweet from me, it's from me.

00:09:54.000 There's no way I can keep up with all of them.

00:09:56.000 So people that try to talk to me and get a hold of me, if you think I'm ignoring you, it's just, I'm ignoring everything.

00:10:02.000 Yeah, well now I don't feel so bad.

00:10:06.000 Well, yeah, that was it.

00:10:08.000 I wanted to get your attention.

00:10:10.000 I was trying to get that.

00:10:11.000 So that's why I came out with the attack.

00:10:15.000 Well, it worked.

00:10:16.000 Yeah, it did.

00:10:17.000 I was trying to be nice for all of us.

00:10:20.000 As soon as I'm an asshole, I said, oh, man.

00:10:23.000 I said, okay, Joe, you're absolutely right.

00:10:26.000 I jumped on you.

00:10:27.000 I shouldn't have jumped on you like that.

00:10:29.000 But we do.

00:10:30.000 We do.

00:10:32.000 Possess a little difference of opinion on the muscle guys.

00:10:36.000 Right.

00:10:36.000 Yeah, you do.

00:10:37.000 So tell me what you think.

00:10:38.000 Okay.

00:10:39.000 I was trying to explain that.

00:10:42.000 I know you have to have known guys like this that are naturally, naturally just more muscular, more built, and they look like they lift weights and work out.

00:10:55.000 But they don't.

00:10:55.000 Right.

00:10:56.000 Guys like, you know, I know this guy, Hershel Walker.

00:11:00.000 Sure.

00:11:01.000 Outstanding athlete, you know, and Bo Jackson, for example.

00:11:06.000 These guys, fantastic athletes.

00:11:08.000 Muscular, very muscular guys.

00:11:11.000 But I think if you were born, born muscular, there's a difference in a guy that goes in the gym and works out three, four hours a day.

00:11:23.000 Yeah.

00:11:39.000 Head and shoulders above all the other athletes of his era because he was born that way.

00:11:44.000 So he was born, the good Lord give us the cardiovascular syndrome, lungs and everything to, you know, to go along with that extra muscle that we were born with.

00:11:54.000 In some cases, in some cases.

00:11:56.000 Now, I thought that you were making a...

00:11:59.000 Blanket statement, and they covered a lot of, you know, that all muscular guys are going to tire out because of the extra muscle.

00:12:07.000 And I disagree because I think if they were born with that muscle, then they were born with the support system to support that muscle.

00:12:14.000 I think there's a lot of logic to that.

00:12:16.000 I think it makes sense.

00:12:17.000 But I do think that if you have a certain amount of muscle, like there's just no way you are going to be, you're going to have the same cardiovascular capabilities as someone that's built like a marathon runner.

00:12:27.000 You're not going to have the marathon runner.

00:12:30.000 There's advantages and disadvantages, I think, to all sorts of body types, especially when it comes to fighting.

00:12:34.000 There's a big advantage to being powerful.

00:12:37.000 It's scary.

00:12:37.000 You look at a guy like Woodley, you go, oh shit.

00:12:40.000 You know you can't stop him.

00:12:42.000 The only thing that's going to stop him is him getting tired.

00:12:44.000 Or you've got to catch him when he's coming in.

00:12:46.000 He's just faster than you, stronger than you.

00:12:48.000 So there's benefits to that.

00:12:50.000 But I think that...

00:12:51.000 When it comes to like, there's no, you're never going to see a marathon runner that's built like Woodley.

00:12:56.000 They just don't exist.

00:12:57.000 So even though he has the cardiovascular system and the support system that's designed for that build that he's born with, he still is never going to be able to compete with like an elite triathlete.

00:13:09.000 Because your body has to be smaller.

00:13:11.000 You have to have less oxygen requirements, less weight that you're carrying around.

00:13:15.000 There's no way.

00:13:17.000 But there's benefits.

00:13:18.000 It's a real balancing act, I think, at MMA because you have to have some muscle.

00:13:24.000 You have to be able to get guys off you.

00:13:25.000 You have to be able to get up from the bottom.

00:13:27.000 You have to be able to explode.

00:13:28.000 You have to be able to close the distance quickly.

00:13:30.000 There's a lot of real benefits to being powerful.

00:13:33.000 But then it's a balancing act, you know?

00:13:38.000 Yeah, you're right, Joe.

00:13:39.000 But here we go.

00:13:44.000 It's not just muscle.

00:13:47.000 You don't see marathon runners that are, you know, 250 pounds either.

00:13:54.000 They can be fat, smooth, butterball, and still, you know, But it's not because of the musculature.

00:14:02.000 Just bigger guy, period, would have a hard time being a marathon runner.

00:14:07.000 Sure.

00:14:08.000 So the musculature, that's where we have a little...

00:14:11.000 I don't think it's the musculature because that musculature, if you're born, if you're just born...

00:14:19.000 More muscular.

00:14:20.000 And you can look at little kids in grade school, and you'll see some of the kids are going to have a six-pack.

00:14:25.000 They're going to just be built better than the other kids.

00:14:29.000 And if that muscle, you were born with that muscle, in my opinion, it's just my opinion, Joe.

00:14:36.000 If you were born with that muscle and that musculature, it's not going to be detrimental, and your system is made for...

00:14:45.000 A good little major system.

00:14:47.000 But you're right.

00:14:49.000 You won't see anybody built like Tyron Woodley running in the New York Marathon or winning the New York Marathon.

00:14:55.000 He could run it.

00:14:56.000 He could run it, but he won't win it.

00:14:58.000 He'll be right behind Oprah.

00:15:00.000 And me!

00:15:01.000 I'm from Doping to the marathon at like 4 hours and 20 minutes recently.

00:15:05.000 That's pretty fucking impressive.

00:15:07.000 Hey, she would beat me, man.

00:15:09.000 Yeah.

00:15:09.000 You're right, but I think that that's just a bigger person, period.

00:15:14.000 Yeah.

00:15:16.000 Defined or the definition of musculature, you know, I know Boss Root, and I talked to Boss Root a little bit about it.

00:15:24.000 And I say, man, Boss, you are built like a fucking statue and shit.

00:15:28.000 And he was quick.

00:15:29.000 Hey, man, but I don't lift weights.

00:15:31.000 And I said, you're proving my point.

00:15:33.000 Right, right.

00:15:34.000 You're proving my point, dude.

00:15:36.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:15:37.000 If you were born that way.

00:15:39.000 You didn't go in the gym and lift weight.

00:15:40.000 I don't lift weight.

00:15:41.000 I don't like to.

00:15:42.000 You're proving my point, but you're right.

00:15:44.000 You don't.

00:15:46.000 You know, you didn't get that muscle from going in the gym and pumping iron and getting it.

00:15:51.000 You were born that way.

00:15:52.000 And so.

00:15:53.000 Well, he was born that way, but Boss also does a tremendous amount of plyos, like a lot of explosive stuff, like all of his bag work.

00:16:01.000 You ever see Boss hit the bag?

00:16:02.000 Oh, my God.

00:16:03.000 Tremendous, man.

00:16:04.000 Oh, man, that dude is bad.

00:16:06.000 He's ferocious.

00:16:07.000 Yes.

00:16:07.000 And everything he does, he does like with a thousand percent effort.

00:16:12.000 You know, his workouts, like, he would tell me that the way he would work out was when he would prepare for a five-minute round, when he would start to get in shape, he would go as hard as he could for, like, a minute, and then, like, be exhausted, and then he would work himself up to a minute and a half,

00:16:27.000 then work himself up to two minutes, and then by the end of his training camp, he'd go five minutes full clip.

00:16:33.000 I'm like, that's fucking crazy.

00:16:38.000 But in you know against that his boss's body started to deteriorate because he's so goddamn tough Like he has no cartilage in his knees his knees are completely shot He kept shooting cortisone and all of his joints like whenever he'd have injuries so his joints are all fucked up He's got tendonitis everywhere.

00:16:54.000 It's just his mind was too strong for like the vehicle and We're good to go.

00:17:20.000 Let me see how to put this.

00:17:21.000 First of all, he's not built like a tank like maybe the way Woodley's built.

00:17:26.000 He's a little bit more slight than Woodley, but still pretty goddamn thick.

00:17:30.000 But also, what he was able to do, too, was he was such a good wrestler.

00:17:35.000 He was able to dictate where the fight takes place.

00:17:38.000 And a good wrestler can control situations, take guys down.

00:17:41.000 And then, you know, once you're on top, like, you get a break.

00:17:44.000 You know, you can rest and then, you know, he would use his ground and pound and submit guys.

00:17:48.000 He was one of the first guys ever, too, that was a high-level wrestler that started submitting dudes.

00:17:53.000 Yeah.

00:17:54.000 Submitted George St. Pierre.

00:17:55.000 A lot of people forget about that.

00:17:56.000 Yeah, I remember that.

00:17:57.000 George was a good friend of mine, too, but also built really well.

00:18:01.000 Built like a brick shithouse.

00:18:02.000 Yeah, another one.

00:18:03.000 And cardio was pretty damn good.

00:18:05.000 Not bad.

00:18:06.000 Yeah, you're making my point for me.

00:18:09.000 Well, I just think there's requirements, right?

00:18:13.000 And if you can get into a physical shape where you can use those muscles the way you need to do, the way you need to do inside the octagon, I mean, there's obviously great benefit to being muscular.

00:18:25.000 Well, I think that guys that were naturally born like that, and I think St. Pierre and Hughes both were, I mean, wasn't Matt a farm boy?

00:18:36.000 Oh, yeah.

00:18:37.000 Yeah, I think those guys were born.

00:18:39.000 Sure.

00:18:39.000 His brothers built just like him, too.

00:18:41.000 Yeah.

00:18:42.000 And if you're born like that, then I think, you know, but the guys are going to the gym and put on muscle.

00:18:51.000 They add the muscles of what they call built muscle.

00:18:54.000 So they have smaller hands, smaller frame.

00:18:56.000 Yeah.

00:18:57.000 When you got that built muscle, that built muscle tires out real fast.

00:19:01.000 And I agree with you 100% on a guy that has built muscle.

00:19:05.000 That went into the gym and pumped iron and got his muscles that way.

00:19:08.000 I agree with you 100%, Joe.

00:19:10.000 You're absolutely correct.

00:19:11.000 He's going to tire out those added on muscles.

00:19:14.000 The oxygen is going to suck the wind.

00:19:16.000 He's going to be tired as fuck in no time.

00:19:18.000 Are you aware of Francis Ngannou?

00:19:20.000 Oh, yeah!

00:19:21.000 He's fighting this weekend, and Francis Ngannou just broke the world record for the most power ever shown in a punch.

00:19:28.000 They have this machine that they use worldwide.

00:19:31.000 It's widely accepted.

00:19:34.000 It is one of the best ways to measure a punch.

00:19:36.000 It's this large pad, and you hit it with full power, and it generates it.

00:19:41.000 Francis Ngannou beat the second place by some insane amount of power.

00:19:45.000 I mean, he's a ridiculously powerful dude.

00:19:47.000 Oh my god.

00:19:48.000 He scares the shit out of everybody.

00:19:50.000 Here he is right here.

00:19:51.000 So they show...

00:19:53.000 This is this thing.

00:19:54.000 It shows what the original world record was and then Ngannou broke it by like 3,000 pounds or some shit.

00:20:02.000 Oh my god.

00:20:03.000 Look at that.

00:20:03.000 He's ridiculous.

00:20:05.000 He's terrifying.

00:20:06.000 You know they found this dude?

00:20:07.000 He was a homeless guy.

00:20:08.000 He was homeless?

00:20:09.000 He was homeless living in France and he made his way into a gym.

00:20:13.000 I believe he wanted a box and when they brought him in, so I guess his See, 129,161 units.

00:20:23.000 The previous one was 114,000.

00:20:25.000 Like, what in the fuck?

00:20:27.000 And Tyrone Spock, who's a beast!

00:20:29.000 Yeah!

00:20:29.000 And, uh, so, Francis Ngannou, who's fighting this weekend, who is fighting Alistair Overeem, who's another beast.

00:20:38.000 So, any predictions?

00:20:41.000 Chaos.

00:20:42.000 Yeah, I think that's the same.

00:20:43.000 I predict chaos.

00:20:45.000 That's the same good prediction right there.

00:20:47.000 Yeah, I mean, I was talking about this on my MMA podcast that Alistair's been stopped.

00:20:53.000 I think in MMA, he's been stopped at least 11 times.

00:20:58.000 And I think he's been stopped...

00:21:00.000 Three or four times in kickboxing as well.

00:21:03.000 There's like 14 KOs plus knocked out in his career.

00:21:07.000 Either TKO'd or knocked out.

00:21:08.000 That's the guy that's got to be worried about getting hit by the guy who's got the world record punch.

00:21:13.000 Yeah, it's going to be youth and exuberance versus experience.

00:21:18.000 Craftiness.

00:21:19.000 Yeah, craftiness.

00:21:20.000 That's what it's going to be.

00:21:22.000 I agree.

00:21:23.000 The consequences of Alistair getting hit, though, are so grave.

00:21:27.000 Ngannou is so terrifying.

00:21:28.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:29.000 And you think, I mean, possibilities are pretty good.

00:21:34.000 Yeah, it's very interesting.

00:21:35.000 I mean, Ngannou was supposed to fight Junior Dos Santos at one point, which was also a really interesting fight.

00:21:40.000 But I think the Alistair Overeem fight is more dangerous for him, but also it's going to let everybody know.

00:21:45.000 Because Alistair's at the top of the heap in the heavyweight division.

00:21:48.000 If Ngannou can get by Alistair, most likely he'll get a shot at the title very soon.

00:21:52.000 Right.

00:21:53.000 So what do you think his ground game...

00:21:56.000 Well, we don't know too much about him other than he submitted one guy in the octagon, and we know that he does have submission skills.

00:22:02.000 He was one fight by submission.

00:22:03.000 I think Anthony Hamilton.

00:22:05.000 But I think, you know, he's...

00:22:08.000 First of all, every fight starts standing up.

00:22:11.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:22:12.000 You gotta get through hell to get that guy to the ground.

00:22:14.000 Good luck.

00:22:15.000 And he's been taken down before and survived and came back to knock the guy out.

00:22:19.000 And he's also still learning and growing.

00:22:22.000 Yeah, I mean, he just started, really.

00:22:25.000 Pretty much.

00:22:25.000 Yeah, he's only been doing it for a few years.

00:22:27.000 He's terrifying.

00:22:28.000 Yeah, wow.

00:22:29.000 Potential is unbelievable.

00:22:31.000 Yeah, well, you know what I think he represents?

00:22:33.000 I think he represents a real world-class athlete that's fighting in MMA, whereas, like, maybe that guy would have gone to football or somewhere else in another era.

00:22:42.000 Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:22:44.000 But now that MMA is, you know, it's like...

00:22:46.000 I say the same thing about Jon Jones.

00:22:49.000 Like, Jon Jones, I think, could have done anything.

00:22:50.000 But Jon Jones got into MMA, and you see what happens when you see a real world-class athlete.

00:22:55.000 Oh, man.

00:22:56.000 Down to...

00:22:58.000 I like John.

00:23:00.000 And I got to meet him a few times, and he told me that he listens to me before he goes out and, you know, before he goes out and fights.

00:23:08.000 And I was a real honor for him to say that.

00:23:12.000 He likes this, I am the one speech that I did.

00:23:17.000 And he always said, say it along with me, C.T. We were standing there yelling in his phone, I am the one.

00:23:24.000 That's awesome.

00:23:24.000 And he goes out and kills people.

00:23:26.000 He does.

00:23:27.000 He's a murderer, man.

00:23:29.000 Yeah, I hope he sorts all his problems out.

00:23:31.000 I don't know what the fuck's going on with this recent positive drug test.

00:23:36.000 So, we'll see.

00:23:37.000 It seems like the only guy that can beat John Jones is John Jones.

00:23:41.000 Well, that's what they used to say about Tyson.

00:23:42.000 Yep, and it's true.

00:23:43.000 And it was true.

00:23:44.000 It's true.

00:23:45.000 You won all of your world records drug-free.

00:23:48.000 Yeah, 100% drug-free.

00:23:52.000 I was drug-free for 37, 38 years, but I did try.

00:23:59.000 I did try Roy's...

00:24:02.000 In 1980 or 81 I believe it was.

00:24:05.000 Before it became illegal, I tried.

00:24:07.000 What'd you try?

00:24:08.000 I tried, I went to a doctor, and I don't know if I should say this fucker's name because he might still be in business, still alive, but the same doctor did Arnold and all the guys who were in the magazines.

00:24:21.000 I thought everybody was drug-free.

00:24:24.000 I didn't think, you know, I didn't think.

00:24:25.000 Because nobody talks, it's a weird thing about those magazines, right?

00:24:28.000 Yeah, yeah, they don't mention nothing about those magazines.

00:24:28.000 Everybody would talk about the creatine they're taking, branch-chain amino acids.

00:24:32.000 Yeah, oh, fucking man, I couldn't wait to go out and get some of them amino acids and shit, man.

00:24:37.000 So they got me, for sure, because I thought that's what we were taking.

00:24:40.000 But I won a couple of little contests, and the guy who was promoting the contest came to me and said, what are you taking, CT? And I had 20-inch arms, you know, then.

00:24:52.000 I thought everybody, I thought every fucking body that I've seen in those magazines, on or anybody else, was drug-free.

00:24:59.000 He goes, what are you taking?

00:25:00.000 And I told him the amino acids and shit.

00:25:03.000 And he goes, oh man, what kind of steroids are you taking?

00:25:06.000 I said, what's that?

00:25:07.000 And he said, you don't know what a steroid is.

00:25:09.000 You didn't even know what a steroid was?

00:25:10.000 I didn't even know what the fuck it was, man.

00:25:12.000 Wow.

00:25:12.000 I'm from Compton.

00:25:15.000 So he told me, you know, you got to go to this doctor.

00:25:18.000 And he gave me the address and everything.

00:25:22.000 And I don't know if I say the doctor's name, but I still remember.

00:25:26.000 And I went to the doctor and guy looked at my nose and ears and shit and listened to my lungs and gave me a prescription for...

00:25:36.000 Decker.

00:25:36.000 Yeah, he gave me a prescription for some Decker to rob him.

00:25:38.000 And I took it right to Kaiser Pharmacy.

00:25:41.000 And the pharmacist, I said, you know what this is?

00:25:45.000 And I said, yeah, it's fucking steroids, I think.

00:25:49.000 And he said, yeah, it's bad.

00:25:50.000 You don't need this shit.

00:25:51.000 Well, look, I want to give you a try.

00:25:53.000 I want to be a professional bodybuilder.

00:25:55.000 And they told me if I want to be a professional and be like Arnold and Franklin and the rest of the guys, I gotta take this shit.

00:26:01.000 So I want to take it.

00:26:02.000 And he gave it to me grudgingly.

00:26:05.000 He got filled with prescriptions for me.

00:26:07.000 I took it off.

00:26:08.000 And I took my Deca.

00:26:09.000 And then I went back to the doctor.

00:26:13.000 And he gave me enough prescriptions for testosterone.

00:26:16.000 So I took Deca and testosterone.

00:26:18.000 And did you notice a difference?

00:26:20.000 Fuck yes!

00:26:23.000 Fuck yes, I know the difference.

00:26:25.000 But you got off of it.

00:26:26.000 Yeah, I got off of it, but I had reasons.

00:26:31.000 And you want me to tell you what those were?

00:26:33.000 Sure.

00:26:34.000 Okay, it worked.

00:26:35.000 It definitely worked.

00:26:36.000 I got fucking hard as, you know, just tight as fuck.

00:26:44.000 But it also...

00:26:48.000 I don't know if it does this to everyone.

00:26:51.000 When I tell them about this sometimes, I say, nah, nah, you must have been an asshole beforehand.

00:26:56.000 And that's quite possibly true, because I was pretty much an asshole because of the way I was raised, you know.

00:27:03.000 I had a bad attitude going in.

00:27:06.000 So when I got on stage, it seemed to amplify my bad attitude.

00:27:11.000 And I had a short fuse, like, was this a fighter, UFC fighter named Short Fuse?

00:27:17.000 Ed Herman.

00:27:17.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:27:18.000 Well, I should have had that nickname way before Ed Herman, man, because I had a fucking short fuse big time and everything, everything pissed me off.

00:27:26.000 So I had a really bad attitude.

00:27:28.000 I was married at the time.

00:27:30.000 You know, I had a real bad attitude with my wife and She couldn't do shit wrong, Joe.

00:27:35.000 I mean, nothing, man.

00:27:37.000 But, okay, that was part of the reason.

00:27:40.000 And another big, big fucking thing with me is what I love more than muscles and lifting weights and fast cars and I love all that shit is sex.

00:27:55.000 And a big, giant, big old giant thing.

00:27:58.000 When I rolled over to have sex and nothing was happening, I said, fuck these steroids.

00:28:05.000 Fuck these steroids.

00:28:06.000 So this when you got off of them?

00:28:07.000 Yeah, nobody told me.

00:28:09.000 Yeah, the crash.

00:28:10.000 Yeah, it was like, oh, you got to take this other shit to make this shit.

00:28:14.000 Clomid and all that stuff.

00:28:15.000 Yeah, I'm like, man, fuck that.

00:28:16.000 Anything.

00:28:17.000 Joe, anything.

00:28:19.000 That kills your boners.

00:28:19.000 Pssssh.

00:28:21.000 Fuck it.

00:28:22.000 Fuck it.

00:28:23.000 Oh, no.

00:28:24.000 Anything is going to do that.

00:28:25.000 I'd rather be 110 pounds soaking wet and still be able to, you know, get my boner.

00:28:32.000 Yeah.

00:28:33.000 Fuck that, you know.

00:28:34.000 It must have affected your lifting, too, because what comes is a giant dip in your natural testosterone once you get off of it, right?

00:28:41.000 Oh!

00:28:43.000 It's bad, huh?

00:28:45.000 It was the, you know, I decided, hey, fuck this shit, fuck this shit.

00:28:51.000 How long were you on it for?

00:28:52.000 A total of six months, but what they do is, they told us back then, you do two months on and two months off.

00:28:59.000 So it took longer, so I do two months on, I take two months off, two months on, two months off.

00:29:03.000 That was the protocol.

00:29:05.000 Yeah, that's what they told us.

00:29:07.000 That's what Dr. Man, whatever his name is, told us how to do it.

00:29:11.000 So, it was a total of six months, but it took longer than that because I had two months off in between, two months off.

00:29:17.000 And that stuff, it definitely, what they don't tell you is when you stop taking this shit, when you just stop taking it cold turkey like that, every fucking thing that you gained during that time,

00:29:35.000 and I gained, you know, I was...

00:29:38.000 Ready for...

00:29:39.000 I had one, like, little small bodybuilding contest.

00:29:41.000 I thought I was ready for fucking Mr. America after this shit.

00:29:45.000 You know, I'm like, oh, fuck.

00:29:46.000 I just got so much tighter and I had more veins and shit than ever.

00:29:52.000 And I'm like, oh, man, this is great shit.

00:29:55.000 But when you get off that shit, everything that you gain...

00:29:58.000 You lose it.

00:30:00.000 And then some.

00:30:01.000 I lost any strength gains that I might have got from it or any, you know, the hardness.

00:30:07.000 I had to start From lower than where I was before I started taking it.

00:30:14.000 Right, because your testosterone is all gone.

00:30:16.000 They say you do gain something and you keep something once your body normalizes.

00:30:21.000 You know, you do have some sort of gains.

00:30:23.000 That's one of the arguments that they say about people that have taken steroids and gotten off of them.

00:30:28.000 That if you can normalize your testosterone, you're still going to have an advantage over people that have never taken it before.

00:30:34.000 But it's subjective.

00:30:35.000 I don't know how true that is.

00:30:37.000 I felt like that every single thing, game that I possibly, I think, I mean, I felt like I lost ground, actually.

00:30:48.000 Because I just stopped, you know, cold turkey, and I think I actually lost ground.

00:30:53.000 Are you supposed to wean yourself off?

00:30:54.000 I think so.

00:30:56.000 But, you know, I'm telling you, when I roll over, you know, I'm fucking 21 years old.

00:31:03.000 And I thought that sex every day was the normal.

00:31:07.000 Right.

00:31:07.000 I mean, you just...

00:31:09.000 That's what you get married for.

00:31:11.000 You can't have sex every day, man.

00:31:12.000 That's one of the benefits.

00:31:13.000 And if I can't have sex every day, then, you know, something's wrong.

00:31:18.000 Like, fuck this.

00:31:19.000 You know, so I just...

00:31:20.000 That was my normal...

00:31:21.000 Normal thing, and I'm pretty sure that my wife at the time probably didn't think that, but I was like, she probably got tired.

00:31:29.000 She had a break when the steroid things.

00:31:34.000 We got a little break for the first time ever, you know, we was married.

00:31:37.000 Like, oh, no, no, no, no.

00:31:39.000 Anything that's going to fuck with that, fuck this shit.

00:31:41.000 That's what gets people back on it.

00:31:42.000 A lot of people get psychologically addicted.

00:31:46.000 Of course!

00:31:47.000 I mean, I talked about it, you know, and I was interviewed in magazine articles and stuff a few times when I was world champion back then.

00:32:01.000 I brought it up in the articles.

00:32:03.000 I never thought it was anything to hide, you know, or anything like that.

00:32:06.000 I said, yeah, you know, I wish...

00:32:09.000 That I had never done it.

00:32:12.000 I wish I could say now, I wish I could say I have a perfectly clean record.

00:32:17.000 Like my training partner, Richard Schumer, we've trained together for 20 years.

00:32:21.000 And this guy, perfect record, never even tried it.

00:32:26.000 Well, he was stronger than me.

00:32:27.000 His mind was stronger than me.

00:32:29.000 Peer pressure and wanting to be in the magazines and wanting to make a living doing something that I love instead of punching a clock every fucking day.

00:32:37.000 That...

00:32:38.000 Appeal was too great for me as a young guy for me to pass it up.

00:32:42.000 I wanted to do something that I loved and make money at it way back then.

00:32:47.000 But I wound up working at the post office for 28 years.

00:32:51.000 Well, it makes sense.

00:32:51.000 I mean, it definitely makes sense that the appeal would be so strong.

00:32:55.000 It works.

00:32:57.000 I mean, that's the big reason why people want to take it out of sports.

00:33:00.000 And I don't know if you ever watched that documentary that's on Netflix called Icarus.

00:33:04.000 Have you seen that?

00:33:05.000 No, I haven't seen Icarus.

00:33:06.000 Icarus is all about the Russian anti-doping state-sponsored program.

00:33:11.000 The Russian...

00:33:12.000 Well, I should say pro-doping.

00:33:13.000 Oh, there you go.

00:33:14.000 They literally gave steroids to every single one of their athletes.

00:33:17.000 That makes more sense, yeah.

00:33:18.000 And it's a crazy documentary, man, because the guy, Brian Fogle, who's the director, is also...

00:33:23.000 He's in it because he was an amateur cyclist, and what he wanted to do is an experiment.

00:33:27.000 So he ran...

00:33:28.000 Or he cycled this race one year, totally clean, and then the next year, he went to this Russian doctor and said, just fuck it, dude.

00:33:35.000 Juice me up to the gills.

00:33:37.000 Let's do this.

00:33:38.000 And they just shot him up with everything.

00:33:40.000 And in the process of him getting to know this doctor, the scandal broke out about the Sochi Olympics, about the Russians cheated during the Sochi Olympics.

00:33:50.000 And it's all documented in this film as the news is breaking.

00:33:53.000 And then the guy who's the Russian doctor has to flee Russia.

00:33:57.000 He leaves his family behind.

00:33:58.000 They take his family's house.

00:34:00.000 Dang it.

00:34:00.000 They take all their money, and they're basically making his family homeless to try to get him to come back to Russia.

00:34:05.000 He's in protective custody in America right now, and he detailed the entire program.

00:34:09.000 Everyone was hot.

00:34:10.000 Everyone.

00:34:11.000 Everyone was on something.

00:34:13.000 They won 13 goals.

00:34:14.000 What's hilarious, they just took some of the medals away, and the medals they took were the most bullshit medals.

00:34:20.000 Like fucking rhythmic gymnastics.

00:34:22.000 You can have this one.

00:34:24.000 They took like four bullshit medals away, but they kept...

00:34:28.000 The big ones.

00:34:29.000 Yeah, they kept wrestling.

00:34:31.000 They kept all the big ones.

00:34:32.000 Wow, that's bullshit.

00:34:34.000 It's bullshit indeed.

00:34:35.000 I did see Big Strong Fast with Chris Bell.

00:34:40.000 That's an interesting take, yeah, right?

00:34:42.000 Because they're pro-steroids.

00:34:44.000 Right, right.

00:34:44.000 Yeah, that is interesting.

00:34:46.000 They are pro-steroids.

00:34:48.000 And a lot of people are.

00:34:50.000 A lot of people are.

00:34:51.000 Well, the argument is, I mean, I see it in terms of fair competition.

00:34:56.000 I see the argument against it for fair competition.

00:34:58.000 It makes sense.

00:34:59.000 But like, I also see the argument in terms of like, if you're going to be taking amino acids and creatine and all these different things that do give you some sort of a benefit, why not take the shit that gives you the real benefit?

00:35:13.000 Well, you know, Joe, I don't find fault with people who decide to take roids because, like I said, I'm a 21-year-old kid and I took them.

00:35:30.000 So how the fuck can I... Talk shit about anybody who decides to make the same decision that I did that many years ago.

00:35:39.000 I'd be a hypocrite asshole if I was to do that.

00:35:44.000 As long as...

00:35:45.000 Yeah, I think.

00:36:05.000 Naturally, against guys that are not, then it becomes unfair.

00:36:09.000 So, if they have a division, and they do it a lot in these weightlifting contests and things now, they have divisions that are called natural divisions, and they actually test for steroids and stuff like that, and maybe they should do something like that for the fighters,

00:36:24.000 too.

00:36:25.000 Hey, we ain't gonna test you guys.

00:36:26.000 If you motherfuckers, you just come on in here and whatever you...

00:36:31.000 They're kind of doing that in Japan.

00:36:33.000 Really?

00:36:34.000 Yeah, Japan has an organization called Ryzen, where it's essentially an offshoot of Pride, or at least some of the people that were involved in Pride.

00:36:42.000 And Pride, like, I had Ensign Inoue on the podcast, and he was talking about his Pride contract.

00:36:46.000 He said it specifically stated, we will not test you for steroids.

00:36:51.000 Like, in all caps and shit.

00:36:53.000 Damn!

00:36:54.000 No wonder he had some fucking animals in Pride, man.

00:36:58.000 Pride was, in a lot of ways, in a lot of people's eyes, that was the golden age of MMA. Shit, yeah.

00:37:03.000 In terms of just sheer performance.

00:37:05.000 Oh, man.

00:37:06.000 But you gotta wonder, like, all those guys, like Fedor and Crow Cop and all those guys in their prime, like, how much shit were they on?

00:37:12.000 Were they on things?

00:37:13.000 I mean, nobody wants to talk about it.

00:37:14.000 If that's in the goddamn world, in the contract, I would suspect that, you know, maybe they...

00:37:21.000 Perhaps.

00:37:22.000 And people want to say, like Fedor, who most people think is the greatest heavyweight of all time, or at least it's an argument, right?

00:37:29.000 He was real good friends with Putin, who is at the head of the Russian state-sponsored doping program.

00:37:37.000 What are the odds that they just let him compete clean?

00:37:40.000 What are the odds that they didn't juice him up?

00:37:42.000 If they're not testing you?

00:37:45.000 I don't know.

00:37:46.000 I don't know.

00:37:47.000 He didn't have a steroid body, though.

00:37:49.000 Well, you say that, but in the early days, he sure as fuck did.

00:37:52.000 Really?

00:37:52.000 Yeah.

00:37:53.000 Pull out that picture of Fedor with the kettlebells.

00:37:57.000 It was a famous picture of him.

00:37:59.000 He was a big proponent of...

00:38:01.000 I mean, he didn't lift weights, per se.

00:38:02.000 He did kettlebell exercises, which are weights, but not bench press and that kind of shit and curls.

00:38:08.000 He did a lot of plyos and a lot of explosive strength training exercises and things like that.

00:38:15.000 But when you look at this picture, he was pretty fucking jacked.

00:38:18.000 And he would definitely knock your fucking head off, too.

00:38:20.000 Oh, he was an animal.

00:38:21.000 Yeah, he kind of looked like a powerlifter.

00:38:23.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:38:24.000 He was built.

00:38:25.000 And in his early fights, he was very built.

00:38:27.000 And then later in his career...

00:38:30.000 There's a lot of things going on later in his career, but it seems like when he came to America, one of the first things he did, if he was ever on anything before, he wasn't on it when he came to America.

00:38:39.000 It looks like he also stopped weight training and only concentrated on sports-specific exercises, which a lot of people disagree with.

00:38:47.000 Some people say that you have to have some kind of weight training.

00:38:50.000 You have to have some sort of strength and conditioning program.

00:38:54.000 Of course, I'm from that background.

00:38:56.000 That's my background.

00:38:57.000 I would say yes.

00:38:59.000 I would agree with that.

00:39:00.000 I think so, too.

00:39:01.000 I think you need both, and I think you certainly need skill.

00:39:05.000 That's the most important thing.

00:39:07.000 But in order to really highlight that skill, you've got to have that body up to full potential.

00:39:11.000 You've got to be peaking.

00:39:12.000 You've got to be ready to rock and roll.

00:39:36.000 Well, you're an inspirational dude.

00:39:39.000 People like you.

00:39:41.000 Yeah, you know, I'm just blessed, man.

00:39:43.000 I tell you what, I have no idea why that, you know, the first video I did for YouTube, the strongest man ain't never heard of.

00:39:52.000 I don't know why people watched it.

00:39:54.000 I'll tell you why.

00:39:55.000 Can you tell me why?

00:39:56.000 Because it's fuel.

00:39:57.000 Everybody who wants to do something in their life has ups and downs, and we need fuel.

00:40:02.000 Like, I'll tell you, I got some fuel today when you were in front of those kids in Compton and you were talking to them about obsession being a good thing if you want to be great at anything.

00:40:13.000 I wanted to shut that fucking TV off and go run the hills, man.

00:40:18.000 Fuel like that is important for people.

00:40:21.000 Seeing someone like you get fired up and talk about things, it energizes the people that are watching.

00:40:26.000 Every time you put out one of those YouTube videos and a million people watch it, how many of those million people engaged in an activity that maybe they weren't going to do that day?

00:40:35.000 How many of them went to the gym when they weren't going to go to the gym?

00:40:37.000 How many of them just decided to get their fucking career in order, get their life in order, get their shit together when they maybe weren't?

00:40:44.000 We need each other.

00:40:45.000 People need each other.

00:40:46.000 Yeah.

00:40:47.000 In a weird way.

00:40:48.000 And people need people like you.

00:40:50.000 You know what?

00:40:52.000 The reason why I surprised Joe is because I told him right in the video, if you don't like what I'm saying, turn the motherfucker off.

00:40:59.000 Perfect.

00:40:59.000 I mean, don't fucking, I don't get, look, I didn't even, I didn't know that they paid you, you know, that YouTube was, I was broke as fuck anyway.

00:41:11.000 I was walking back and forth to the gym to train people.

00:41:13.000 I didn't have any, I was a horrible personal trainer.

00:41:17.000 People would come, you know.

00:41:20.000 First of all, I went to try to get a job as a personal trainer at a lot of different gyms, and they would ask me if I had my certificate.

00:41:27.000 And I said, look, I'm a six-time world champion.

00:41:29.000 I don't need a fucking certificate.

00:41:31.000 I know how to lift weights.

00:41:32.000 And they go, oh, yes, you do, motherfucker.

00:41:34.000 If you don't got the certificate, get on.

00:41:37.000 So I would leave with my little plaques and shit under my arm.

00:41:43.000 And I got turned down a bunch of times.

00:41:46.000 And then finally I went to a hardcore gym.

00:41:48.000 And I said, hey, ain't you C.T. Fudge?

00:41:50.000 Yeah, yeah, man.

00:41:51.000 Hey, well, we know...

00:41:52.000 I had to go to, but I went to these chain gyms and they would turn me down left and right.

00:41:57.000 Yeah, you can't go to those places.

00:41:58.000 Get the fuck out of here, man.

00:41:59.000 They're not for you anyway.

00:42:00.000 Yeah, oh, no.

00:42:01.000 Like I said, I was a horrible person.

00:42:03.000 You'd be breaking those people.

00:42:05.000 Oh, my God.

00:42:06.000 They come in and they say, hey, one session.

00:42:09.000 One session.

00:42:10.000 They pay me for a month, but they train one time with me.

00:42:13.000 And they're like, hey, no.

00:42:15.000 And I'm like, hey, if you pussy out that fucking fast, take your fucking ass back home.

00:42:21.000 Here's your money.

00:42:22.000 Take your fucking money.

00:42:23.000 And I needed that fucking money, too, Joe.

00:42:25.000 I needed it bad, man.

00:42:27.000 Like I said, I was walking because...

00:42:30.000 When I had my, I used up all my sick leave and stuff.

00:42:33.000 I was working at the post office.

00:42:34.000 I used up all the sick leave and they let me go.

00:42:38.000 They let me go from there.

00:42:39.000 The thing is you can't get left go from a government job.

00:42:42.000 It's bullshit.

00:42:42.000 You can.

00:42:43.000 I'm a living examiner.

00:42:44.000 So they let you go because you're sick?

00:42:45.000 Well, I used up all my sick leave and everything.

00:42:49.000 I had a rough...

00:42:51.000 Recovery.

00:42:51.000 The recovery was rough.

00:42:53.000 So I stayed out too long.

00:42:54.000 They gave me so much.

00:42:56.000 I stayed out too long.

00:42:57.000 So my sickly was all worn out and they actually let me go.

00:43:03.000 But before they let me go, they granted me a full, you know, health, health related.

00:43:10.000 They gave it to me for a year.

00:43:12.000 Benefits.

00:43:13.000 Yeah, everything for a year.

00:43:14.000 And then, unexplainedly, the same doctor who granted it to me, which was their doctor, took it away a year later.

00:43:20.000 So a year later, broke as fuck.

00:43:22.000 I don't got no job.

00:43:24.000 I don't got no benefits.

00:43:24.000 After working for 28 years there, I don't got no kind of retirement, no nothing.

00:43:29.000 So I'm walking around.

00:43:30.000 That's when I'm trying to get a personal training job.

00:43:32.000 I'm walking around trying to get a personal training job, and they find me.

00:43:35.000 Gave me one at a hardcore gym.

00:43:38.000 They gave me a personal training job.

00:43:41.000 Like I said, I didn't have very many clients at all.

00:43:44.000 The guys that I call the original Iron Addicts are the guys that stuck with me.

00:43:49.000 I put them through hell.

00:43:50.000 They liked it.

00:43:51.000 They'd come back for more.

00:43:52.000 Those are guys that I call the original Iron Addicts group.

00:43:56.000 Yeah, there's some people that are just not going to have the mental fortitude for that.

00:43:59.000 But for someone starting out, it's kind of crazy to go to you.

00:44:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:44:06.000 No, I'm definitely not for the beginner or the average guy.

00:44:09.000 No, no, no, no.

00:44:11.000 What you were saying to those kids is very important.

00:44:14.000 There's a difference between the kind of effort and focus that you want to put in in order to get yourself fit.

00:44:21.000 I just want to be in good shape.

00:44:22.000 I just want to be able to do 10 push-ups and 10 chin-ups and normal shit.

00:44:27.000 There's a difference between that person and the type of person that's gonna seek out excellence.

00:44:32.000 This type of person is gonna go to a guy like you and go, I just want every day to give 100%.

00:44:37.000 I want to drain myself on that bench.

00:44:40.000 I want to drain myself at that squat rack.

00:44:42.000 I want to have nothing left when I leave here.

00:44:44.000 Can you do that?

00:44:45.000 Yeah.

00:44:46.000 Most people go, fuck that.

00:44:48.000 It sounds good.

00:44:49.000 Yeah, fuck that.

00:44:50.000 After like three weeks of that, your fucking joints are aching and your body's falling apart.

00:44:55.000 No, fuck you, CT. I'm out of here.

00:44:57.000 Keep the money, man.

00:44:58.000 Sometimes, I mean, it would show up once and I didn't see them no more.

00:45:02.000 No explanation.

00:45:03.000 No, they didn't even say.

00:45:05.000 One person told me they're going to the bathroom.

00:45:06.000 I never seen them no more.

00:45:08.000 I'm going to the bathroom.

00:45:09.000 Fuck it.

00:45:10.000 I'm never coming back.

00:45:11.000 Did you get a lot of injuries when you were training?

00:45:15.000 No, I was lucky in that.

00:45:18.000 My first career as a powerlifter, I didn't get injured.

00:45:24.000 I never had any injuries, and I didn't wrap up.

00:45:28.000 Really?

00:45:29.000 Really, man.

00:45:30.000 That's crazy.

00:45:30.000 I had bones.

00:45:32.000 My bones were really strong.

00:45:35.000 Tendons, no shoulder problems, no nothing?

00:45:37.000 No shoulder problems.

00:45:38.000 Wow, that's even Dorian.

00:45:40.000 Dorian Yates is all fucked up now.

00:45:42.000 I had him on the podcast and one of his arms is just jacked.

00:45:44.000 He can't do push-ups anymore.

00:45:46.000 His shoulder's all fucked up and all the connective tissues torn off the bone and just...

00:45:51.000 Well, yeah.

00:45:54.000 It's amazing.

00:45:54.000 You must have excellent genetics in that sense.

00:45:59.000 That's what I credit, too.

00:46:02.000 Exactly.

00:46:03.000 It's just the genetics.

00:46:06.000 As much as my dad, I hated him growing up.

00:46:11.000 I got to credit Buddy Fletcher for that, man.

00:46:14.000 I hated the dude growing up.

00:46:16.000 I really did.

00:46:16.000 That was a big part of your documentary, man.

00:46:18.000 That was intense.

00:46:19.000 When you told that story about getting a gun, Yeah.

00:46:33.000 Yeah.

00:46:35.000 Yeah.

00:46:46.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:46:48.000 That's Buddy Fletcher's rule right there, man.

00:46:51.000 I mean, he tell you to do something, goddammit, you better do it.

00:46:54.000 So when I went, after growing up like that, I grew up in fear.

00:47:01.000 I was afraid of my dad all the time.

00:47:04.000 But growing up in Buddy Fletcher's household, when I went into the military, it was a piece of cake, man.

00:47:11.000 I was used to it.

00:47:12.000 I was already, you know, used to Yes, Sir, and I was just standing there to chanting and saluting and shit and doing impossible shit or whatever he asked me to fucking do.

00:47:20.000 I was already used to it.

00:47:21.000 So the Army was, you know, shit, I've already been doing it.

00:47:25.000 Other guys crying and shit.

00:47:26.000 I've been doing this my whole fucking life, man.

00:47:28.000 No problem.

00:47:30.000 How did you get on YouTube?

00:47:32.000 A guy came into the gym and he said, his name was Arash Babu.

00:47:39.000 I've got to give Arash credit for that.

00:47:40.000 He was at Strength Project and he had a big following already on YouTube.

00:47:45.000 And he said, hey, can I interview you for YouTube?

00:47:48.000 I don't know, what the fuck is YouTube?

00:47:50.000 And he said, well, it's this social media thing.

00:47:53.000 And I had one question.

00:47:55.000 Can I say whatever the fuck I want to say?

00:47:57.000 And he said, yeah, you can say whatever the fuck you want.

00:47:59.000 I said, can I cuss?

00:48:00.000 He said, yes, cuss all you want to.

00:48:01.000 I said, fuck it, it's on.

00:48:04.000 Let's go.

00:48:05.000 That guy, man, think about how that works.

00:48:08.000 Like one thing leads to all these other things.

00:48:11.000 Like that guy coming in and talking to you led to you inspiring countless millions of people.

00:48:17.000 That's crazy.

00:48:18.000 It is absolutely crazy.

00:48:21.000 I never thought in a million years that something like that would happen.

00:48:27.000 I never did.

00:48:28.000 I always wanted, as a kid, it's funny, I wanted to inspire people because my dad was a preacher.

00:48:36.000 He's a Korean War vet.

00:48:38.000 And a preacher.

00:48:40.000 So I grew up in a super religious household.

00:48:44.000 Super religious.

00:48:45.000 Everything was a sin.

00:48:47.000 Every fucking thing was a sin.

00:48:49.000 You couldn't do shit.

00:48:50.000 You know, dating girls, that was a sin.

00:48:52.000 Going to the movies, that was a sin.

00:48:53.000 Listening to whatever kind of music.

00:48:55.000 If it wasn't gospel music, it was a sin to listen to.

00:48:58.000 Everything.

00:48:59.000 I'm telling you, everything was a fucking sin.

00:49:02.000 So, but, you know, Buddy Fletcher is, you know, I recently, since this last heart attack, I recently went to him.

00:49:11.000 I was waiting for 58 years to hear an apology from him that was never going to come.

00:49:17.000 And it was...

00:49:18.000 It's eating me up, Joe.

00:49:20.000 It's tearing me to fucking pieces, man.

00:49:23.000 Because being an old dude, I would wake up at night punching and kicking and shit, and I'm still fighting Buddy Fletcher at 56, 57 years old.

00:49:36.000 I'm still fighting this dude because I'm still carrying around this hate.

00:49:40.000 I hated him.

00:49:41.000 But it was okay because the hate was mutual.

00:49:43.000 I don't think I just hated him and he didn't hate me.

00:49:45.000 He told me, well, he got up in church and he made an announcement.

00:49:50.000 He said, hey, look, I know what it is between that son, which was me, and he pointed at me and at that son.

00:49:58.000 Right there.

00:49:59.000 I get along with the rest.

00:50:00.000 You know, my other brother's no problem.

00:50:02.000 But he hated me.

00:50:03.000 And he says, because he's so much like me.

00:50:05.000 That's why I hate him.

00:50:07.000 That's why we can't get along.

00:50:09.000 I hate you because you're so much like me.

00:50:12.000 Jesus.

00:50:12.000 Yeah.

00:50:13.000 So I was like, hey, no problem.

00:50:15.000 I hate your ass, too.

00:50:17.000 Did you guys never work it out?

00:50:18.000 Oh, yes.

00:50:18.000 We did.

00:50:19.000 We did.

00:50:20.000 But it was...

00:50:21.000 Have you seen the movie?

00:50:23.000 It wasn't worked out during the movie.

00:50:25.000 I still didn't like them during the movie.

00:50:28.000 They asked them, do you have any...

00:50:33.000 Good recollections of when CT growing up, when it's childhood, do you have any fond recollections of you and CT as a kid?

00:50:42.000 And boy, I was looking at him.

00:50:44.000 I was waiting.

00:50:44.000 I really wanted to hear if he was going to fabricate something.

00:50:49.000 Right.

00:50:49.000 Because I didn't have none.

00:50:50.000 And I'm like, I want to see what this motherfucker's going to say to this question.

00:50:54.000 Right.

00:50:54.000 And he didn't have any either.

00:50:56.000 And I was like, okay, cool.

00:50:58.000 But I was ready to stop the fucking movie and just make an ass out of myself.

00:51:04.000 Like, no, that's bullshit.

00:51:06.000 You ain't one fucking time that we ever did anything pleasurable together, motherfucker.

00:51:10.000 And I was ready to go off.

00:51:11.000 But he didn't have any.

00:51:13.000 So when he didn't have any, I said, okay, now that's the same recollection that I have.

00:51:16.000 Wow.

00:51:17.000 But I really didn't forgive him until his last heart attack in June.

00:51:22.000 And what happened then?

00:51:23.000 When I had the heart attack in June, it seemed like a revelation came to me.

00:51:29.000 And it was like, it's not hurting him.

00:51:32.000 It's not hurting him at all.

00:51:34.000 My dad is 86 years old.

00:51:36.000 He's fine, man.

00:51:38.000 I don't...

00:51:39.000 He's like, you know, I don't think he thinks that he has anything to be sorry for.

00:51:44.000 I think he thinks he's done a fantastic job of raising me.

00:51:48.000 And I was just waiting on an apology that was never going to come.

00:51:52.000 But it was still, the hate that I had for him was eating me up.

00:51:56.000 So I had to get that burden off me.

00:51:58.000 And I think having that last heart, I didn't want to die carrying that burden with me of hating my dad.

00:52:04.000 So I went to my dad and I asked him to forgive me.

00:52:09.000 Whoa.

00:52:10.000 Yeah.

00:52:11.000 Damn.

00:52:12.000 Yeah.

00:52:13.000 How did you say that?

00:52:14.000 What did you say?

00:52:15.000 I said, you know, look dad, I have blamed you.

00:52:18.000 I told him that I had recently had a heart attack and I have blamed you my entire life for a whole lot of things that went bad or went, you know, that I always, you know, blame you and I'm sorry.

00:52:32.000 I don't want to blame you for that anymore, and would you please forgive me for carrying this against you for my whole life?

00:52:41.000 I don't want to die letting you think that I love you, man, and I want you to know that.

00:52:48.000 Wow!

00:52:49.000 Yeah!

00:52:50.000 How good does that feel?

00:52:52.000 I don't wake up punching and shit anymore.

00:52:55.000 I'd probably be out of breath if I did anyway.

00:52:58.000 But I don't wake up with those nightmares.

00:53:00.000 I haven't had that nightmare since then.

00:53:02.000 Wow.

00:53:03.000 How did he react to that?

00:53:05.000 He was fully accepting of my apology.

00:53:09.000 He graced me.

00:53:10.000 He was graciously accepting my apology.

00:53:13.000 So do you communicate regularly now?

00:53:15.000 No.

00:53:16.000 Still don't communicate regularly.

00:53:18.000 I just really wanted to get that off my chest.

00:53:22.000 Just release the burden?

00:53:23.000 Yeah, I just really wanted to get that off my chest and release that burden.

00:53:29.000 I'll probably try to communicate more after I get this new heart.

00:53:35.000 You know, it's kind of fucked up, but in a way, and I don't know why this is, but sometimes people that have gone through terrible childhoods, they recognize what it means to be a good father.

00:53:47.000 I see you with your kids.

00:53:50.000 I see it in the documentary, and I see how your kids are around you here.

00:53:54.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:53:55.000 Well, shit, they want to meet Joe Rogan, too.

00:53:59.000 But, yeah, I have a super, super time.

00:54:03.000 I want to make sure that if somebody asks my kid, you know, 20 years from now, Do you have any fine memories of your dad and your child and how you grow?

00:54:15.000 I want to make sure that they got plenty of fucking fine memories, you know, that they can say, you know, my dad was, my dad, we did this together.

00:54:23.000 My dad was, he was, loved me to death.

00:54:26.000 I never had one doubt in my mind.

00:54:28.000 My dad loved the shit out of me.

00:54:30.000 I don't want my kids to grow up, you know, like I did.

00:54:32.000 So I put forth an extra effort to make sure that's, you know, that's not going to happen.

00:54:37.000 So in some sort of a way, it turned out to be positive because you're such a doting father.

00:54:42.000 You're so into it.

00:54:44.000 I mean, it's so obvious that it's like the negative consequences of how your dad treated you, like it came out of you the opposite way.

00:54:52.000 Yeah, I made it a fucking point, man, because it's miserable on that kid.

00:54:57.000 But also, Joe, you know what good came out of that?

00:55:01.000 The childhood, the kind of childhood that I went through, I get, and I'm sure what I get is just a tinge of what you get.

00:55:10.000 But it's so many thousand, thousand people that contact me and tell me, hey, man, my dad, you know, I had a fucked up childhood, and I see that How you were able to come out of that.

00:55:22.000 Or some kids, kids contact me now that I'm going through a fucked up childhood, CT, and because you made it, because you were able...

00:55:30.000 So that, when I look back and I used to think, why did I have to go through this?

00:55:36.000 Why did I have to have such a fucked up childhood?

00:55:41.000 It's because of that.

00:55:43.000 Because I can talk about my childhood, and it helps so many other people, so many other kids that are going, oh, Joe, I look back on it now, and I say, it was so worth it that it wasn't even funny, man.

00:55:55.000 It's so worth it.

00:55:57.000 Everything that I had to go through, wanting to hide every time I heard my dad's keys in the door, wanting to just, you know, run away from fucking home.

00:56:06.000 I hated my childhood, but it was so worth it.

00:56:10.000 Everything was so worth it.

00:56:11.000 Just being able to help one kid who might be going through the same thing.

00:56:15.000 It's so fucking worth it.

00:56:16.000 I count it as a blessing, man.

00:56:19.000 It's just a blessing.

00:56:20.000 Seeing that right there, that attitude is the reason why people are attracted to you.

00:56:24.000 Because you really do like helping people.

00:56:26.000 Like, you really do.

00:56:27.000 You're happy that you suffered so that you could help other people.

00:56:30.000 That is one of the reasons why people are so attracted to you.

00:56:33.000 Wow.

00:56:34.000 Yeah.

00:56:35.000 I guess.

00:56:36.000 But after I tell them, hey, look, turn me the fuck off!

00:56:41.000 Yeah, but you're just trying to weed out the weak.

00:56:44.000 It's not even the weak.

00:56:45.000 It's the people that aren't willing to take the leap.

00:56:48.000 You can't have any excuses.

00:56:50.000 Excuses are a real problem with people.

00:56:51.000 Oh, my God.

00:56:52.000 It's a real problem because you give yourself a way out.

00:56:54.000 You can fail at things.

00:56:56.000 You could try and not be able to do it.

00:56:58.000 But the excuses for why you can't do it or why you're going to fail or why you don't feel up to it today or why you're tired or why you have other things on your mind, why you have other things you have to deal with first before you can start working out.

00:57:10.000 That's all bullshit.

00:57:11.000 Oh, yeah, and I told them.

00:57:14.000 Yeah, you did tell them.

00:57:15.000 They needed to hear it.

00:57:16.000 People need to hear that shit.

00:57:18.000 They need to hear it.

00:57:19.000 Because they create their own boundaries.

00:57:21.000 They create their own borders.

00:57:22.000 They create their own obstacles.

00:57:23.000 They create their own things that cannot be surpassed.

00:57:26.000 And all those things are just products of the mind.

00:57:29.000 And it's just the ego protecting you from failure.

00:57:32.000 Protecting you from that horrible feeling that you need to experience in order to move forward.

00:57:37.000 If you want to move forward, you got to experience some falls.

00:57:40.000 You got to slip.

00:57:41.000 You got to fall down.

00:57:41.000 You got to get back up.

00:57:42.000 You got to try and fail.

00:57:44.000 Because if you don't fail, that means you weren't trying hard enough.

00:57:46.000 Because nobody's just fucking excellent at everything.

00:57:48.000 All the time.

00:57:49.000 All the time.

00:57:50.000 It's impossible.

00:57:51.000 It's impossible.

00:57:52.000 If you're a good person, that means at one point in your life you fucked up.

00:57:55.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:57:56.000 You figured out how to be a better person.

00:57:58.000 Exactly.

00:57:58.000 There's no other way around it.

00:58:00.000 No one's just great from the womb.

00:58:02.000 I mean, unless you're the Dalai Lama or Buddha or some shit, no one is great from the womb at anything.

00:58:07.000 That's correct.

00:58:07.000 Or Buddy Fletcher.

00:58:09.000 Yeah, or Buddy Fletcher.

00:58:11.000 Being a human, being an athlete, being a doctor, whatever the fuck you are trying to do, if it's difficult to do, you're going to fuck up along the way, and some people can't handle the fuck up.

00:58:22.000 They can't handle it.

00:58:23.000 So they don't even try.

00:58:24.000 They don't even try.

00:58:25.000 Exactly.

00:58:26.000 They can't, oh, it's my thyroid.

00:58:28.000 Oh, I have a problem with my metabolism.

00:58:32.000 Or, oh, you know, I have...

00:58:36.000 Chronic fatigue syndrome.

00:58:37.000 Just fucking get up and go.

00:58:39.000 Just one foot in front of the other.

00:58:40.000 Keep moving.

00:58:41.000 Just keep moving.

00:58:42.000 Tomorrow, do more.

00:58:43.000 Good night.

00:58:44.000 Fuck excuses.

00:58:44.000 Wait, get up in the morning.

00:58:45.000 Oh, the alarm clock?

00:58:46.000 That means you get up.

00:58:46.000 You know, you get the fuck up.

00:58:48.000 Get up.

00:58:50.000 Press that button, get the fuck up, and go.

00:58:52.000 And if you don't have an out, if it's impossible to not get the fuck up and go, then you just do it.

00:58:57.000 So just don't allow that other part.

00:59:00.000 Don't allow that, I'm going to hit the snooze button.

00:59:02.000 Fucking snooze button is the worst shit that's ever been invented.

00:59:05.000 Do you really feel better after nine minutes?

00:59:07.000 That shit doesn't do you any good.

00:59:09.000 Just get up, bitch.

00:59:10.000 Just get up.

00:59:11.000 Get up, bitch!

00:59:14.000 Get up!

00:59:15.000 Get your fucking ass up out there, goddamn bed.

00:59:18.000 People need to hear you.

00:59:20.000 That's one thing.

00:59:21.000 Here's a business for you.

00:59:22.000 You should do ringtones.

00:59:24.000 Ringtones and alarms.

00:59:27.000 Like an alarm.

00:59:28.000 A C.T. Fletcher alarm.

00:59:29.000 Every morning.

00:59:30.000 Instead of beep, beep, beep, beep, just you saying, get your fucking ass out of bed.

00:59:36.000 How do we hear no excuses?

00:59:38.000 You know what?

00:59:39.000 I do something similar to that now.

00:59:41.000 Do you?

00:59:41.000 Yeah, I've been cussing people out my whole life for nothing.

00:59:45.000 And I got this thing, Book Cameo, Iron Addicts, bookcameo.com, you can find me on it.

00:59:50.000 And then people pay $25, I think, or $35, one of them, for me to cuss them out.

00:59:59.000 Yeah, so I get on there and cuss them out for two minutes.

01:00:01.000 Two minutes straight, I cuss them out and call them all kind of motherfuckers and shit that I've been doing my whole life for nothing.

01:00:09.000 And now, you know, the people pay me to do it, man.

01:00:13.000 And it's wonderful.

01:00:14.000 It is wonderful.

01:00:16.000 One guy told me, I want you to cuss my ex-wife out.

01:00:21.000 That's a problem.

01:00:22.000 Exactly.

01:00:23.000 So I had to let her know right up front, hey, this is not me saying this.

01:00:29.000 You did it anyway.

01:00:30.000 Oh yeah, I did it.

01:00:32.000 I would have said no.

01:00:34.000 No, no, I did it.

01:00:35.000 I said, this is not me saying it, this is Gregory.

01:00:38.000 And Gregory said he told me to leave him the fuck alone and he is not interested in your ugly ass no more.

01:00:45.000 Oh my God.

01:00:46.000 Stop stalking him, bitch.

01:00:48.000 But this is Gregory talking, not me now.

01:00:51.000 So if you get your gun and shoot anybody, make sure it's Gregory and not my ass.

01:00:56.000 Did she ever get a hold of you?

01:00:57.000 No, no, no.

01:01:06.000 I really think that those videos that you do are very important.

01:01:10.000 I really do.

01:01:11.000 You know, I just I think that inspiration this like a people for some reason there's there's a bunch of people We're good to go.

01:01:39.000 And sincerity when it comes to inspiration and motivation, those kind of things.

01:01:44.000 And for some people, some people overdo it.

01:01:46.000 You go to some people's pages and their Instagram page is just all a bunch of quotes.

01:01:50.000 It's all other people saying shit, which is fine every now and then.

01:01:53.000 Every now and then, yes.

01:01:54.000 It's like your diet.

01:01:56.000 Yeah.

01:01:56.000 You know, it's okay to eat a piece of cake every now and then.

01:01:58.000 Don't eat cake all day, bitch.

01:02:00.000 You're gonna fucking wind up hating cake.

01:02:02.000 That's what's gonna happen.

01:02:03.000 Exactly.

01:02:03.000 And if you see just nothing but inspirational memes all day long, you're like, this is not working anymore.

01:02:08.000 They don't get in.

01:02:09.000 Right.

01:02:10.000 It's too much.

01:02:11.000 But a real person, a real person like you who's already accomplished a shitload of things, who understands the benefits of real hard work and intensity and focus, when you do those videos, man, I get fired up.

01:02:25.000 I get fired the fuck up.

01:02:26.000 I see those videos and I just want to go to the gym right away and just get fucking fired up.

01:02:30.000 See, I didn't even think Joe Rogan knew who the fuck I was, man.

01:02:34.000 I knew who you were.

01:02:35.000 That's why I didn't get upset when you were getting mad at me.

01:02:38.000 Joe don't even know who the fuck I am, man.

01:02:41.000 No, people know who the fuck you are, man.

01:02:42.000 I mean how many millions of people have seen your videos?

01:02:44.000 Oh, maybe, yeah, one or two.

01:02:47.000 It's a lot.

01:02:47.000 Yeah, you know, quite a few people have seen it, and way, way more than I ever thought would, that's for sure.

01:02:53.000 Because, I mean, you go on YouTube and you tell people, hey, turn me the fuck off.

01:02:57.000 How many people are going to keep watching this?

01:02:59.000 Motherfucker says, turn me the fuck off.

01:03:00.000 I don't give a fuck if you watch me or not.

01:03:02.000 You don't like what the fuck I'm saying?

01:03:04.000 Turn it off, motherfucker.

01:03:05.000 How many people are going to keep watching, Anthony?

01:03:07.000 A lot!

01:03:08.000 The ones you want.

01:03:11.000 Oh my God.

01:03:12.000 The ones you want are going to keep watching.

01:03:13.000 Man, Russia.

01:03:14.000 I've been able to travel the world, man.

01:03:17.000 And due to this, due to Arash Babu coming in to Metro.

01:03:21.000 Isn't that crazy?

01:03:22.000 Yeah.

01:03:23.000 Going all over the world.

01:03:24.000 I've been to army base.

01:03:25.000 I've been to Russia, Australia, Germany.

01:03:29.000 I've been all over the fucking place.

01:03:31.000 Fuck you, CT. I had so many people at the airport and wrestling.

01:03:35.000 They all had beers.

01:03:36.000 They all had fake beers.

01:03:37.000 And the women, men, everything.

01:03:38.000 About 120 people met me at the airport.

01:03:41.000 And here's this poor kid from Compton, you know, and that who a lot of times I didn't think I was going to make it out of my childhood.

01:03:54.000 To go to Russia and have all these people with these beards on, you know, to steal your motherfucking sets.

01:04:01.000 Man, Joe, it's like sometimes I think I actually did die on that operating table, and now I'm in heaven, man.

01:04:08.000 I'm just, this is my heaven.

01:04:09.000 You know what I mean?

01:04:10.000 So it's just fantastic.

01:04:12.000 It is unbelievable.

01:04:14.000 And I'm sitting across the fucking table from Joe Rogan.

01:04:16.000 I'm sitting across the table from C.T. Fletcher.

01:04:18.000 And after all these motherfuckers said, oh yeah, it's this big giant feud between Joe, he'll never, you'll never be on the Everybody who said I'd never be on this show, fuck y'all.

01:04:26.000 It didn't bother me for a second.

01:04:28.000 I was never upset at you at all.

01:04:29.000 And I could see your point of view, and I could see why you'd be upset at my point of view.

01:04:33.000 I get it.

01:04:34.000 It didn't bother me at all.

01:04:35.000 I don't take things very personally.

01:04:37.000 And immediately, when you responded, I said, hey Joe, you're absolutely 100% right.

01:04:44.000 You know, I just want, I really want to get your attention, man, more than anything.

01:04:50.000 I thought, you know, I did feel, you know, I felt we had a little difference.

01:04:54.000 And it's a slight difference, because I agree with about 90% of what you say.

01:05:00.000 It's just a slight difference that we don't agree on.

01:05:02.000 And as soon as you say, hey, man, you came in, you attacked me like a fucking wild man.

01:05:07.000 Yes, yep, I did, Joe.

01:05:09.000 You're absolutely right.

01:05:10.000 I apologize for that.

01:05:12.000 I shouldn't have came at you that way.

01:05:14.000 That was the end of the feud right now.

01:05:16.000 Can I be on your fucking show, Joe Rogan?

01:05:19.000 Well, shout out to Kevin Pereira for getting us together.

01:05:22.000 Kevin, hell yeah, man.

01:05:23.000 Thank you, thank you, thank you very much.

01:05:24.000 So he's doing something with you right now?

01:05:25.000 Yeah, we're doing this Patreon campaign, which I'm going to be honest with you, Joe.

01:05:32.000 I hate...

01:05:35.000 To ask anybody for anything.

01:05:37.000 I hate that.

01:05:38.000 I've had a job, a working job since I was 12 years old.

01:05:45.000 At 12 years old, I've worked in a gas station pumping gas, and it was during the fucking gas crisis when the gas lines were super long.

01:05:52.000 But I've always worked for it.

01:05:54.000 I hate asking people.

01:05:55.000 And this Patreon campaign is like asking people to help me now that I'm Not able to travel the world.

01:06:02.000 I'm not able to get out there and promote things like I used to.

01:06:06.000 Patreon is a way that they can support me, and it's called defying death.

01:06:10.000 I wanted to call it my last will and testament, because if I don't, if I'm not successful in my fight, and if I don't get a heart transplant, I do get a heart transplant and rejects, and I'm dead, I have a record.

01:06:24.000 There's a record, and I thought last will and testament would be the best thing to call it, because if I lose the fight, Then people can go back and see and hopefully get some benefit.

01:06:35.000 They can see how I faced.

01:06:37.000 You know, you hear a lot of people.

01:06:38.000 I have so many people telling me, oh, CT, don't worry about it.

01:06:41.000 We're praying for you.

01:06:43.000 We got your back.

01:06:44.000 But hey, none of that matters when you're in that operating room.

01:06:48.000 I appreciate the good wishes and the goodwill and all that.

01:06:53.000 But in the end, you got to face it.

01:06:55.000 It's a solo experience.

01:06:57.000 You have to face death.

01:06:58.000 Everybody will.

01:07:00.000 You have to face death on your own and nobody else can step in for you and die for you or it's how you deal with it.

01:07:08.000 So this is a permanent record of how I deal with death.

01:07:12.000 You know, being in a situation where I could possibly die.

01:07:16.000 And I want people to be able to look at him just in case I make it, don't make it, whatever.

01:07:21.000 They can look back and say, well, this is how CT dealt with it.

01:07:25.000 This is, he's facing a transplant.

01:07:27.000 He didn't make it, but he went in with a Shit-ton of faith, and he believed he was gonna make it.

01:07:34.000 He believed he was gonna make it, and if I don't make it, fuck it, I ain't gonna know nothing about it anyway.

01:07:38.000 You guys will be able to talk all the shit that you want to, but I went in with a very positive attitude.

01:07:43.000 I want to be able to see that.

01:07:45.000 Now, when they do a heart transplant, have you talked to anybody that's had a heart transplant?

01:07:49.000 Yes, I have.

01:07:50.000 Yeah?

01:07:50.000 Yeah, and you know, those are the people that I really, really want to hear from.

01:07:57.000 Yeah.

01:07:57.000 Because And I appreciate it.

01:08:01.000 I get a shit ton of well wishes and support, and I think from Iron Addicts all across the planet.

01:08:08.000 I mean, they're all behind me, and I really, really appreciate it.

01:08:11.000 But actually, it's easy for me to say, hey, Joe, be tough.

01:08:15.000 I know you're going through this thing, Joe, but I want you to be tough.

01:08:19.000 I want you to hang tough, and I want you to...

01:08:23.000 But have I actually gone through, when I'm asked, the circumstance that you're facing, the difficulty that you're facing right now, have I actually had any experience with that?

01:08:33.000 Because it's hard for me to listen to you to tell me to, you know, be strong and be tough about getting a heart transplant.

01:08:40.000 And, you know, you ain't never had nothing but a fucking hangnail or something like that.

01:08:44.000 If you've actually been through something, Right.

01:08:57.000 Right.

01:08:59.000 Right.

01:09:01.000 Right.

01:09:03.000 I'm not going to be listening too hard to a motherfucker that don't have no experience.

01:09:08.000 Experience is, to me, still the best teacher.

01:09:11.000 Especially something like a heart transplant.

01:09:14.000 How many people have successful heart transplants a year, do you know?

01:09:20.000 You know, I've tried to look it up, but they don't give you too many numbers on...

01:09:24.000 I think that the survival rate is 75 for the first...

01:09:29.000 No, I think it's higher, 80% for the first year now.

01:09:32.000 It was lower years ago, but now it's up to 80% survive for the first year.

01:09:37.000 You have to take some pretty intense drugs just to keep your body from rejecting the organ, right?

01:09:41.000 Definitely, but I'm taking a shitload of drugs right now.

01:09:44.000 What do you have to take now?

01:09:45.000 I got 15 different pills, 15 different drugs that I take every day just to survive.

01:09:51.000 What are they all for?

01:09:53.000 To get water off my lungs, to lower my blood pressure, kidney, all kind of fucking different pills.

01:10:01.000 They supposedly help me function, and sometimes I honestly think they fuck me up.

01:10:06.000 Some of them fuck me up.

01:10:07.000 It's hard for me to function.

01:10:11.000 Properly on a daily basis.

01:10:12.000 Just a day of feeling normal.

01:10:16.000 If I can feel normal for the whole day, oh, that's fantastic.

01:10:20.000 Not good or great.

01:10:24.000 I feel great today.

01:10:25.000 There's no such thing as me getting up saying I had a fucking great day today.

01:10:28.000 But if I can just feel normal for that day, then that's fantastic, man.

01:10:33.000 And this is since June.

01:10:35.000 Yeah.

01:10:35.000 So before June, you were fine, even with the artificial heart valve?

01:10:38.000 Yeah.

01:10:38.000 I wouldn't say I was.

01:10:40.000 I was, yes, for 11 and a half of those years, but six months prior to the heart attack, I had signs.

01:10:47.000 So you started feeling it coming?

01:10:48.000 Yeah, yeah, I had signs.

01:10:50.000 Did you do any cardio, or were you doing any cardio before?

01:10:55.000 Not really.

01:10:56.000 You know, the way I work out is kind of cardio.

01:10:59.000 You'd be sweating, you know, a big puddle of sweat on the floor.

01:11:02.000 Like Cali Muscle, I remember I put in through a workout.

01:11:06.000 I trained a lot of pro wrestlers and stuff, too, when I put them through the workout.

01:11:09.000 And Cali Muscle had the best, he said, gee, willigers!

01:11:16.000 That was the best one.

01:11:17.000 He said, damn, CT, you're fucking crazy, man.

01:11:19.000 But that was the best.

01:11:20.000 G. Williger's.

01:11:22.000 Yeah, G. Williger's.

01:11:22.000 He's bringing it back.

01:11:23.000 Yeah, that's bringing it way back.

01:11:24.000 That's like Andy Griffin's show.

01:11:26.000 Yeah, right.

01:11:27.000 Exactly.

01:11:28.000 Cali was on Fear Factor.

01:11:30.000 Yeah, was he?

01:11:31.000 Yeah.

01:11:32.000 I didn't know that.

01:11:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:11:33.000 How'd he do?

01:11:34.000 He fell off of a car.

01:11:36.000 Oh, wow.

01:11:36.000 Didn't work.

01:11:37.000 They had him suspended over a...

01:11:39.000 See if you can find that.

01:11:41.000 He was giant.

01:11:42.000 Wow.

01:11:42.000 Too big.

01:11:43.000 The dude was giant.

01:11:44.000 It was one of those stunts where you had to carry your own weight, like climbing over things.

01:11:51.000 Oh, shit.

01:11:51.000 You know, he's like close to 300 fucking pounds.

01:11:53.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:54.000 So he's doing that.

01:11:55.000 It's just, it was the wrong stunt for him.

01:11:57.000 Yeah, I bet it was.

01:11:58.000 I adopted that guy.

01:12:01.000 He's my son.

01:12:02.000 He's fucking, he's.

01:12:03.000 He's got an interesting story himself.

01:12:04.000 Oh my god, he's got a hell of a story.

01:12:06.000 I saw his YouTube story.

01:12:07.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:12:08.000 Hell of a story, man.

01:12:10.000 He's real good.

01:12:11.000 And the good thing about him, he's the same way on and off YouTube.

01:12:16.000 Yeah, he was a very friendly guy when I met him.

01:12:17.000 I enjoyed talking to him a lot.

01:12:19.000 He's jacked as fuck.

01:12:20.000 Oh yeah, definitely.

01:12:22.000 Definitely.

01:12:22.000 Cali Muscle was jacked.

01:12:25.000 Yeah, I've interviewed, one of my favorite interviews was Hoist Gracie.

01:12:29.000 Really?

01:12:30.000 Yeah, I got the interview with Hoist Gracie and it was incredibly, we had some incredible similarities in our train of thought and how we think.

01:12:40.000 Yeah?

01:12:41.000 Yeah, he told me that on the day of a fight, He made no plans for after the fight.

01:12:48.000 No plans.

01:12:49.000 We're going out to dinner.

01:12:51.000 We're going to celebrate.

01:12:52.000 None of that.

01:12:53.000 He said, I was completely 100% prepared to die in that octagon.

01:13:00.000 And I'm like, fuck yeah!

01:13:03.000 Oh, God!

01:13:05.000 Damn!

01:13:06.000 That resonated with me so hard because I remember my last contest.

01:13:12.000 They told me about my heart valve in the 90s, in 95, at my last contest, Greatest Bench Press in America.

01:13:19.000 They say, Mr. Fuster, you can go out there in front of all those people and your valve could break, burst, and you could die right there on the bench press in front of all those people.

01:13:31.000 Are you going to go?

01:13:33.000 And Joe, I looked at him and I said, fuck yeah, I'm going.

01:13:37.000 My doctor looked at me like I'm crazy.

01:13:39.000 I'm looking at him like he crazy.

01:13:41.000 Fuck yes, I'm going.

01:13:42.000 Hell yeah, are you out of your mind?

01:13:44.000 What a glorious way.

01:13:46.000 What a glorious way to go out.

01:13:48.000 Doing what I fucking love to do, what I've trained to do my whole fucking life in front of all these people.

01:13:54.000 Oh man, I couldn't ask.

01:13:56.000 If I was writing a movie script, it couldn't be any better.

01:13:58.000 Wow.

01:13:59.000 Fucking died right there on stage in front of every fucking body.

01:14:02.000 Bitch, bro.

01:14:03.000 So I felt the same way.

01:14:05.000 I felt the same way that Corey's crazy.

01:14:07.000 And it just really made me feel good that I wasn't the only crazy motherfucker on the planet.

01:14:11.000 He's definitely crazy.

01:14:12.000 He's the most important figure in the history of martial arts.

01:14:15.000 I think so.

01:14:15.000 His UFC won in 1993 changed the world.

01:14:19.000 Yeah, it did.

01:14:20.000 Changed the world.

01:14:21.000 Because people thought that you had to be, like, the bigger guy.

01:14:23.000 And then all of a sudden he showed that, no, there's this thing called Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

01:14:27.000 And this dude coming out wearing pajamas is just going to fuck all you people up.

01:14:30.000 Yep, he sure did.

01:14:32.000 Changed the world of martial arts.

01:14:33.000 Everybody started training Jiu-Jitsu.

01:14:34.000 Oh, my God.

01:14:35.000 I didn't even know what it was.

01:14:37.000 I had no idea what it was.

01:14:38.000 No idea.

01:14:39.000 Yeah, as soon as it came out, I was like, I'm enrolled.

01:14:42.000 I went to Carlson Gracie's.

01:14:43.000 I went to Hicks and Gracie's first, then to Carlson Gracie's.

01:14:45.000 Yeah.

01:14:46.000 And I think that is why I'm going to blow some smoke up your butt there, Joe.

01:14:52.000 I think that's why you're such a fantastic analyst.

01:14:55.000 I think that's why you're the best at what you do, because you get your ass in there and you actually experience it.

01:15:01.000 And when you say a hold or you say a omoplata or whatever, you know what the fuck you're talking about.

01:15:08.000 I think that helps, but I think I'm very, very fortunate that I have a series of jobs that help each other.

01:15:13.000 Yeah.

01:15:14.000 And that, like, being a comedian and being able to talk on stage in front of all those people, I'm comfortable.

01:15:20.000 Like, I'm comfortable in front of a microphone doing a podcast.

01:15:23.000 And I'm comfortable.

01:15:24.000 And I love MMA, obviously.

01:15:26.000 I'm a huge fan of martial arts.

01:15:28.000 So it's my chance to express myself about something that I really enjoy.

01:15:32.000 And I don't feel burdened down by the moment of, like, the camera on me.

01:15:38.000 Right.

01:15:38.000 Which is harder.

01:15:39.000 Which is harder.

01:15:41.000 Performing in front of a live audience and being a comedian or what you do for the UFC. Oh, UFC is way, way easier.

01:15:48.000 I wouldn't say it's easy because you have to understand what you're talking about.

01:15:53.000 You have to have a lot of information in your head and you have to really care.

01:15:58.000 It's my job just to represent the experience that these guys are going through.

01:16:02.000 When I think about commentary, I'm thinking about These guys have been through months of training camp.

01:16:07.000 They've dieted.

01:16:08.000 They've, you know, cut weight to get down to their weight class.

01:16:11.000 They're rehydrated.

01:16:12.000 There's so much emotions and intensity.

01:16:14.000 It's just my job to honor their experience and to do my best to make it fun for the fans at home and make it dramatic.

01:16:21.000 That's all my job.

01:16:22.000 They have the hard job.

01:16:23.000 My job is just to not fuck up and to try to describe it in the best way that I can.

01:16:29.000 It's way easier than stand-up.

01:16:33.000 The live art...

01:16:34.000 Oh, shit.

01:16:35.000 I know.

01:16:36.000 I'm just being...

01:16:37.000 Well, I can imagine.

01:16:39.000 I'm going around the world giving speeches and seminars in front of live audiences.

01:16:47.000 It's much easier for me.

01:16:49.000 And this is a big-ass thing, but it's much easier for me to sit across the table from Joe Rogan and talk to him than it is to do those people shooting all kinds of questions at me and shh.

01:16:58.000 It's odd, right?

01:16:59.000 It's got to be odd for you to experience this late in life, too.

01:17:03.000 Oh, man.

01:17:04.000 If I was 21, I couldn't do it.

01:17:06.000 If I had to sit across the table from Joe Rogan at 21 years old, I'd be too fucking petrified to do it.

01:17:11.000 You think you would?

01:17:12.000 Yeah, I know I would.

01:17:12.000 But once we started talking, I think you would loosen up, and then you'd be yourself.

01:17:17.000 I'd be choked up.

01:17:18.000 For a while, maybe.

01:17:20.000 I'd be too fucking choked up.

01:17:21.000 I'd be tied to him.

01:17:22.000 I wouldn't be able to talk.

01:17:26.000 Just people relax.

01:17:29.000 I don't think so.

01:17:30.000 I was too wound up emotionally as a 21-year-old.

01:17:35.000 Who isn't?

01:17:36.000 Oh, man.

01:17:36.000 I could imagine.

01:17:38.000 I was talking with a buddy of mine because I started stand-up at 21, and I was like, what the fuck did I have to talk about when I was 21?

01:17:43.000 I didn't know shit.

01:17:45.000 Wow.

01:17:45.000 You literally don't know anything.

01:17:46.000 I didn't know you had been doing it that long.

01:17:47.000 Yeah, yeah, I started at 21. Wow.

01:17:49.000 I didn't know a fucking thing.

01:17:51.000 So what are you now, 35?

01:17:53.000 50. What?

01:17:54.000 You're fucking 50?

01:17:55.000 Yeah, I'm 50. You old bastard.

01:17:58.000 This guy's fucking 50 years old.

01:18:00.000 Yeah.

01:18:01.000 I started in August 27th, 1988. Wow.

01:18:06.000 You look good for 50 years old.

01:18:07.000 Thank you, sir.

01:18:08.000 Thank you very much, man.

01:18:09.000 I dyed my beard for the Joe Rogan show.

01:18:11.000 It looks good.

01:18:12.000 It's fucking black as fuck, man.

01:18:14.000 What's it like when you don't dye it?

01:18:16.000 It's white as fuck.

01:18:17.000 Is it?

01:18:17.000 100% white?

01:18:18.000 I'm giving Santa Claus a run for his fucking money, man.

01:18:21.000 You look good with a black beard, though.

01:18:24.000 Blacking that shit up.

01:18:25.000 Who gives a shit?

01:18:26.000 I know I do.

01:18:27.000 I know just for men better start paying me for this fucking shit, man.

01:18:30.000 I've been advertising for them fuckers for years.

01:18:32.000 They should.

01:18:33.000 Yeah.

01:18:33.000 Why not?

01:18:34.000 Get in there with that comb, right?

01:18:35.000 Hell yeah.

01:18:36.000 Get in there, work it out.

01:18:37.000 Making that shit black.

01:18:39.000 So how often do you do your YouTube videos now?

01:18:42.000 We release a new one every Saturday, and they have changed so much.

01:18:47.000 Last week I had a cooking show.

01:18:49.000 Oh yeah?

01:18:50.000 Yeah, a vegan cooking show.

01:18:52.000 Oh yeah, you're doing all vegan diet now, huh?

01:18:54.000 Well, you know what?

01:18:54.000 I can't call myself vegan.

01:18:56.000 I call myself plant-based.

01:18:57.000 I started out saying I was vegan, and then I realized...

01:19:01.000 How crazy them vegan folks is?

01:19:03.000 And I say, you know, I'm not vegan because I'm not doing it because I'm thinking about the animals.

01:19:10.000 And, you know, vegan will fuck your ass up about that shit.

01:19:13.000 They're super serious about that.

01:19:15.000 I'm not doing it because of that.

01:19:16.000 I'm doing it for...

01:19:17.000 There's a lot of people that are vegan that are vegan for the right reasons.

01:19:21.000 They're vegan because they're conscientious, because they want to do it for health, because they want to have the least amount of impact on the environment, because they don't want animals to die.

01:19:31.000 But then there's a lot of people that are vegan that really just belong to something.

01:19:36.000 They could have been Scientology.

01:19:37.000 They could have been a Mooney.

01:19:39.000 They found that and they ran with it and now they are fucking ruthless against people that aren't in that group.

01:19:47.000 And they generally give good-hearted, kind-hearted vegans a bad name.

01:19:52.000 And it's a small percentage.

01:19:54.000 But a lot of these motherfuckers, they have vegan in their online name, and they attack.

01:19:59.000 You look at their comments, they're all attacking all these other people constantly.

01:20:04.000 They're just angry people that found a reason to be an aggressive person.

01:20:10.000 They found a green light.

01:20:11.000 Oh, this person's not vegan, I can attack them.

01:20:13.000 And you're the reason why the world, you're responsible for all the pollution and all the crime.

01:20:17.000 Did you know that if you were vegan that this would be less suffering?

01:20:20.000 Oh my God.

01:20:22.000 And they do the worst job of promoting veganism because people see those crazy assholes and then they go, fuck these people.

01:20:28.000 I'm going to go eat a steak just for you, bitch.

01:20:30.000 I'm going to shoot this fucking cow right in the dick and I'm going to eat them right in front of you.

01:20:35.000 Fuck you, man.

01:20:37.000 Well, I didn't want to be associated with them, that radical part at all.

01:20:42.000 So I stopped saying I'm vegan.

01:20:44.000 I just don't eat meat.

01:20:45.000 I would like to get you connected to some real nutrition experts that could break down why that might not be the best idea and what is important in your diet in terms of essential fatty acids and healthy fats.

01:20:59.000 A lot of people think that refined carbohydrates are the big problem with heart disease.

01:21:05.000 Refined carbohydrates and sugar is what contributes to heart disease.

01:21:08.000 You know the whole thing that came out pretty recently in the New York Times at an expose about the sugar industry having paid off scientists in the 1950s to put the blame on saturated fats and cholesterol instead of sugar?

01:21:23.000 Wow.

01:21:23.000 Yeah, it's a complete, total, fabricated conspiracy by the sugar industry because they were doing these tests and they were realizing, like, holy shit, sugar fucks people up.

01:21:33.000 It's terrible for you.

01:21:34.000 And so what they did is they literally bribed scientists, and not that much money, which is kind of crazy.

01:21:39.000 In the 1950s, they paid them something around $50,000.

01:21:43.000 And I don't even know if it's $50,000 today.

01:21:46.000 I think it was the equivalent of $50,000.

01:21:48.000 Oh, wow.

01:21:49.000 And these people just fabricated these reports and got everybody convinced that saturated fat, which is an essential part of the human diet, and cholesterol, which is literally the substrate for hormone production, like cholesterol is important for your body,

01:22:04.000 and that these things are responsible for heart disease and not sugar.

01:22:09.000 Wow.

01:22:09.000 Refined sugar and refined carbohydrates, they're completely unnatural in the human body.

01:22:15.000 You're not supposed to be able to just scoop up a fucking tablespoonful of sugar and dump it in your mouth.

01:22:19.000 It's not real in the world.

01:22:21.000 Like, if you get sugar in the world, it's attached to an apple, you know?

01:22:24.000 Yeah, yeah, that's true.

01:22:25.000 If you get carbohydrates, it's in plants.

01:22:27.000 It's fiber.

01:22:28.000 You're eating, and your body knows how to process that.

01:22:31.000 Your body doesn't know what the fuck to do with bread, especially the bread that we eat today.

01:22:36.000 Sprayed down with fucking all sorts of shit to prevent all these pesticides.

01:22:42.000 They changed the wheat and made it more complex gluten so your body has a harder time processing it.

01:22:48.000 There's a lot of bad food that people eat.

01:22:50.000 It's safe to say you're not a vegan.

01:22:52.000 No, I'm not a vegan.

01:22:53.000 But I respect the people that are doing it because they're doing it because they don't want to cause harm.

01:22:58.000 And I respect the people that think they're doing it for their health.

01:23:01.000 But I've talked to a lot of vegans that were formerly vegans, especially Chris Kresser, who is an actual scientist and is one of the leading experts on The real issue with the vegan diet and how it does work for some people.

01:23:15.000 Some people with their biological requirements and their physical requirements in terms of what their activity is, they function fine on a vegan diet.

01:23:22.000 As long as they're careful, they make sure they get enough B12, they make sure they get their fatty acids.

01:23:28.000 Make sure they get their essential fatty acids from coconuts and flaxseed oil, avocado.

01:23:33.000 There's a lot of different ways you can get oils for your body.

01:23:36.000 But your body needs that shit.

01:23:37.000 It's essential.

01:23:38.000 There's a lot of essential things.

01:23:39.000 I would love to connect you with these guys.

01:23:41.000 And I'm open to it.

01:23:43.000 I'm very open to it.

01:23:44.000 I changed my outlook after this last heart attack.

01:23:48.000 I changed my outlook completely.

01:23:50.000 That's what made me even try to...

01:23:52.000 Yeah, plant-based diet.

01:23:54.000 You know, I have a supplement company that's Iron Antics brand.

01:24:00.000 It's a hardcore, hardcore, it's billed as for the hardest core motherfuckers on the planet.

01:24:05.000 What kind of shit?

01:24:06.000 Yeah, you know, pre-workouts and pumps and stuff.

01:24:10.000 But after that, I started another brand, Odyssey Nutraceuticals.

01:24:15.000 It's completely different.

01:24:17.000 I named it Odyssey because that's what I consider my life is, is an Odyssey, a bunch of different I got one hell of an odyssey going on.

01:24:24.000 But anyway, it's a plant-based protein.

01:24:27.000 You know, it's very health conscientious.

01:24:30.000 It's a very health conscientious.

01:24:32.000 I'm a fan of plant-based protein.

01:24:34.000 I think pea protein is really good.

01:24:36.000 I love hemp protein.

01:24:37.000 That's my favorite.

01:24:38.000 I think hemp protein is very easy for your body to digest.

01:24:41.000 The real problem with a lot of plant proteins is, I mean, if you just eat just plants, especially eating whole foods, your body's not breaking it down the same way your body would break down a steak, say, or a grass-fed beef.

01:24:54.000 I'm going to send you a sample of my shit.

01:24:57.000 I would love to get it.

01:24:57.000 And you tell me what you think.

01:24:59.000 And Odyssey Nutraceuticals.

01:25:02.000 I had to get that in on the air before Joe kicked me the fuck off.

01:25:05.000 What is the website?

01:25:07.000 Do you have a website for it?

01:25:08.000 OdysseyNutraceuticals.com, man.

01:25:10.000 All right.

01:25:11.000 Go check it out.

01:25:12.000 Got to get that shit in before you kick me off the air.

01:25:14.000 I'm not kicking you off yet.

01:25:15.000 You know, when we were going back and forth, I remember one of the questions that I had to ask you.

01:25:18.000 I said, what is I-S-Y-M-F-S? What the fuck is that?

01:25:24.000 Because it's on the end of your thing all the time.

01:25:25.000 And when you told me, I was laughing out loud in front of my computer.

01:25:29.000 It's still your motherfucking sex.

01:25:31.000 That's exactly what it stands for, Joe.

01:25:34.000 I love that.

01:25:37.000 It's really based on my mom.

01:25:42.000 My mom's reason why I'm not completely retarded.

01:25:44.000 I mean, I think I'm semi-retarded, but I'm not completely...

01:25:47.000 Oh, retarded, that's not a...

01:25:49.000 I shouldn't say that.

01:25:50.000 I still allow it.

01:25:50.000 Okay, thank you, Joe.

01:25:52.000 It doesn't mean a disease.

01:25:53.000 Right.

01:25:53.000 It means a dummy.

01:25:54.000 Yeah, I'm not completely retarded because of my mind.

01:25:58.000 I'm a believer in intent.

01:25:59.000 I think your words should just be noises that you make that convey intent.

01:26:02.000 I don't think they should be magic noises that you can't say.

01:26:05.000 Yeah, ooh, god damn it.

01:26:06.000 Damn it, Joe!

01:26:08.000 That was deep.

01:26:10.000 You said a lot.

01:26:11.000 I think people are too sensitive.

01:26:12.000 And then on top of that, people are looking to tell you to not say certain words.

01:26:15.000 Don't say that the R word is the wrong word now.

01:26:18.000 It's problematic today.

01:26:19.000 Oh my God, Joe.

01:26:20.000 Yeah, so it came from my mom.

01:26:23.000 My mom was, I tell you, her and all her siblings died from a heart-related problem.

01:26:27.000 So she was sick most of her adult life.

01:26:30.000 That's where I remember mostly.

01:26:32.000 I remember very early when I was very young, my mom being healthy.

01:26:34.000 But she was sick most of her adult life, most of my memories of my mom, when she was sick.

01:26:39.000 But every day, every day, and I mean she was really sick, in and out of emergency rooms and stuff.

01:26:45.000 If you ask my mom, hey, Mrs. Fletcher, how are you?

01:26:48.000 She would say, I'm blessed.

01:26:50.000 Her standard answer was always, I'm blessed.

01:26:54.000 And the reason she told me, the reason why she would say that is because I'm still alive.

01:26:58.000 I'm not dead.

01:26:59.000 So if I'm still alive, I still have life.

01:27:02.000 I still can go on.

01:27:03.000 I still can make a change.

01:27:04.000 I still can make a difference.

01:27:06.000 So I got it from her.

01:27:09.000 No matter what the situation, how bad it may seem, how people complain about me, you're still alive, motherfucker.

01:27:16.000 So your set is your life.

01:27:17.000 And you're still alive.

01:27:18.000 You still have a chance to make it different.

01:27:20.000 You're still going.

01:27:21.000 What's the worst thing that happened?

01:27:22.000 I could die.

01:27:23.000 Okay, well, if you ain't dead, motherfucker, keep going.

01:27:26.000 If you ain't dead, it's still your set, motherfucker.

01:27:28.000 It's so simple.

01:27:29.000 Yeah.

01:27:30.000 So, yeah, she was blessed.

01:27:31.000 And that's why I always, you know, people are like, how you doing, CT? I'm blessed no matter what the fuck's going on.

01:27:35.000 I'm still alive, so I'm blessed.

01:27:37.000 That's awesome that people need to hear that they do need to hear that and they need to hear your attitude about excuses because both of those things are very important It's very important for people to process because a lot of people have like bad patterns in their mind these bad patterns are just the way they've Interacted with the world the way they've approached all sorts of different problems They have these patterns and they fall right into these patterns and maybe they learn these patterns from their family Maybe that maybe they learn these patterns from their environment Maybe these patterns are like defense mechanisms to

01:28:07.000 keep them from challenging themselves, but you got to recognize what those are It's not you like you're not a lazy fuck, but you've been behaving like a lazy fuck Well you are as a human right and you could be anything you could just decide to you know the story of David Goggins David Goggins.

01:28:23.000 Damn, that sounds familiar.

01:28:25.000 Navy Seal, endurance athlete.

01:28:27.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:28:27.000 I just recently looked him up.

01:28:29.000 He was super fat, fully out of shape, like literally on desk door health wise.

01:28:35.000 He got picked on in school and stuff like that.

01:28:37.000 Got fucked with, but decided.

01:28:40.000 Yep.

01:28:41.000 Enough is enough.

01:28:42.000 Just literally in his own mind decided he was going to win the world record for chin-ups.

01:28:47.000 Did it.

01:28:48.000 Decided he was going to be like this incredible endurance athlete.

01:28:50.000 Did it.

01:28:51.000 Just did it.

01:28:51.000 Just does it.

01:28:52.000 Just forces his mind.

01:28:53.000 And he has this thing that he says that I think about whenever I'm tired.

01:28:56.000 He said most people quit at 40%.

01:29:00.000 I believe that.

01:29:01.000 I believe that too.

01:29:02.000 I believe that too.

01:29:03.000 Most people get a little tired and like, oh fuck this.

01:29:05.000 But you couldn't go further.

01:29:07.000 You can go further.

01:29:08.000 Yeah.

01:29:09.000 Man, yeah.

01:29:09.000 I just recently read on it and watched a video of him.

01:29:14.000 Somebody sent it to me.

01:29:15.000 He's a savage.

01:29:16.000 Yeah, he is, man.

01:29:18.000 Just a straight mental savage.

01:29:18.000 Oh, I love it.

01:29:19.000 I love those guys.

01:29:20.000 Those people are important.

01:29:21.000 You got to know that those people are out there.

01:29:23.000 And him in particular, he's really important because he was super out of shape.

01:29:26.000 Yeah.

01:29:27.000 It's not like he was always this ripped super athlete.

01:29:29.000 Like he was like fat and terrible diet and poor health and poor depression, the whole deal.

01:29:35.000 Yeah.

01:29:35.000 And just tightened it up and now he's an animal.

01:29:39.000 Now you can't fuck with him.

01:29:40.000 Fucking decided to.

01:29:41.000 Yes, decided to.

01:29:42.000 Yeah.

01:29:43.000 And anybody can do that.

01:29:45.000 All the people out there that think they're lazy, no.

01:29:47.000 You've been behaving like a lazy person.

01:29:49.000 You've been following lazy patterns.

01:29:52.000 If you just decide tomorrow, first of all, if you decide tomorrow you're gonna be a disciplined, focused person, don't expect to have the kind of energy That someone who's been disciplined and focused for years has.

01:30:02.000 Because you're not going to.

01:30:03.000 That's right.

01:30:03.000 Your body's not going to be conditioned for it.

01:30:05.000 Your mind's not going to be accustomed to the strain.

01:30:07.000 But you can still do it.

01:30:09.000 Right.

01:30:09.000 You're just going to get tired quicker.

01:30:11.000 And then hopefully by next week you'll have more endurance.

01:30:13.000 And then by the week after that you'll have more.

01:30:15.000 And if you keep building, six months from now you'll be unrecognizable.

01:30:18.000 That's right.

01:30:18.000 If you stick with it, you definitely will.

01:30:20.000 But everything's got to start from right there.

01:30:22.000 That's why you're important.

01:30:24.000 That's why you're important.

01:30:25.000 That's why your videos are so important.

01:30:26.000 Because your videos, I guarantee it.

01:30:29.000 I don't know the number, but I want to say 100,000 people probably watch your videos and change their life.

01:30:33.000 I guarantee you.

01:30:34.000 That's real.

01:30:35.000 I don't know the number.

01:30:36.000 It's a lot more than I thought.

01:30:38.000 It's a lot.

01:30:39.000 That's for sure.

01:30:40.000 I bet you've changed people's entire outlook on things.

01:30:43.000 That's for sure.

01:30:44.000 Science.

01:30:45.000 That's everything in this life.

01:30:47.000 Because you can get information.

01:30:49.000 Books are wonderful.

01:30:51.000 Documentaries are wonderful.

01:30:52.000 What's really great is inspiration.

01:30:54.000 The fuel.

01:30:56.000 The little push.

01:30:57.000 Just a little push.

01:30:58.000 Just to get you moving.

01:31:00.000 Sometimes that's all it needs.

01:31:01.000 And then next thing you know it...

01:31:03.000 And then people like you, because you've had a lifetime of this discipline and dedication and obsession...

01:31:10.000 That reinforces it in people's heads.

01:31:12.000 Like, I want to do what CT does.

01:31:13.000 I want to be like that.

01:31:15.000 I want to have that kind of energy and focus.

01:31:17.000 Joe Rogan, have you ever thought about getting into Octagon yourself?

01:31:21.000 I want to ask you that.

01:31:22.000 No, I'm too old now.

01:31:23.000 I almost did at one point in time, but not at this point, no.

01:31:27.000 Earlier.

01:31:27.000 Yeah.

01:31:28.000 Well, when I was kickboxing, man, I got a lot of fucking headaches.

01:31:31.000 And I was really worried.

01:31:33.000 I came from a real meathead gym, and we did, like, hard sparring.

01:31:37.000 And I did a lot of hard sparring.

01:31:39.000 There's one kid in particular who is a really good boxer, and we beat the fuck out of each other.

01:31:44.000 And the problem is, I would go home, and this was going on over a few years.

01:31:50.000 I would go home, and my head would be pounding, just boom, boom, boom, lying in bed.

01:31:55.000 And I was thinking, what am I doing to myself?

01:31:57.000 Am I going to be stupid when I get older?

01:31:58.000 Am I going to not know where I am?

01:32:00.000 Am I going to be stumbling on my words?

01:32:02.000 I was terrified of brain damage.

01:32:04.000 Yeah.

01:32:06.000 I've always been a very curious person, and I've always been fascinated by the way you can change the way you think about things.

01:32:16.000 That's why I'm so excited about talking to you.

01:32:18.000 Inspiration and motivation and even information.

01:32:20.000 Having these things in your mind.

01:32:22.000 You can forge these things together to make your mind go in a certain direction.

01:32:27.000 So the quality of my thoughts has always been very, very important to me because I know that that's what made me successful in all the different areas that I've chosen to pursue.

01:32:36.000 It's like the quality of your thinking and being able to recognize what's good and what's bad.

01:32:40.000 The mind itself, if the mind itself is compromised, then you're not going to be able to do all those things you want to do.

01:32:47.000 You're not going to be able to appreciate life if you don't remember where you are and you don't know how to talk anymore.

01:32:52.000 And I was around people that I was watching their ability to talk and their cognitive function decay.

01:33:00.000 Fighting is...

01:33:02.000 It's glorious.

01:33:03.000 But you gotta know when to stop.

01:33:06.000 You gotta know when to stop.

01:33:07.000 And for me, when I stopped, it was 1989. There was no UFC. There was no money.

01:33:12.000 There was no money in kickboxing.

01:33:14.000 Like, I think I got offered a fight for 500 bucks.

01:33:19.000 I was doing amateur fights and I got offered a pro fight for like, it might have been $400.

01:33:23.000 I don't remember how much it was, but I was like, what?

01:33:26.000 I was like, that's crazy.

01:33:27.000 I'm going to train for months and maybe get my ass kicked and maybe get head kicked for like $400.

01:33:34.000 And I was getting these headaches.

01:33:36.000 The headaches were bad, man.

01:33:39.000 So I just decided early on.

01:33:40.000 If the UFC was around back then, I'm most certain I would have pursued it.

01:33:44.000 But I'm glad it wasn't.

01:33:45.000 You did whoop a fan's ass one time, didn't you?

01:33:49.000 A fan?

01:33:50.000 Well, not a fan.

01:33:51.000 A guy talking shit.

01:33:53.000 Oh, the guy on Fear Factor?

01:33:54.000 No, I just grabbed him.

01:33:56.000 I thought he was going to hit me.

01:33:57.000 I didn't hurt him.

01:33:58.000 No.

01:33:59.000 No, he's just crazy.

01:34:01.000 I just tied him up.

01:34:02.000 I got him in a Muay Thai clinch.

01:34:04.000 I was thinking of choking him, but I was like, I better not choke him.

01:34:07.000 Because if I choke him, you know, maybe they could sue me.

01:34:09.000 So I just decided, I decided if I grab ahold of him and grab him by the back of the head, he'll probably realize once I lock onto him that he's pretty helpless.

01:34:18.000 And he'll probably stop.

01:34:20.000 And he kind of did.

01:34:20.000 He kind of just flailed around a little bit.

01:34:23.000 But he's like, when someone grabs your neck, There's something about controlling someone's neck.

01:34:27.000 It's a very...

01:34:27.000 It just does not feel good.

01:34:29.000 No.

01:34:30.000 Fuck no, Ben.

01:34:31.000 I mean, you feel powerless.

01:34:33.000 Yeah, that was a guy that had...

01:34:35.000 He had attacked a counselor before on another television show, and he had thrown his girlfriend to the ground, or his wife, on another television show.

01:34:43.000 Oh, my God.

01:34:43.000 And they had told me about him before he did the show.

01:34:46.000 They're like, this guy's a serious hothead.

01:34:47.000 We were thinking about not having him on the show at all, but we thought it'd be good drama, just be careful.

01:34:53.000 And so...

01:34:54.000 He punched some guy, or she punched some guy on the show.

01:34:58.000 And I said, the wife punched a guy that was heckling him.

01:35:01.000 And I said, you can't hit someone.

01:35:04.000 I go, just because you hit your husband doesn't mean you can hit other people.

01:35:06.000 And then the guy got in my face.

01:35:08.000 And there's a lot of it that wasn't on film that they didn't put on TV. But I pushed him out of my face.

01:35:13.000 He goes, don't touch me.

01:35:14.000 And I said, or what, bitch?

01:35:15.000 What the fuck are you going to do?

01:35:16.000 And he got in my face again, and I pushed him again.

01:35:19.000 And then I said, this is just too tense.

01:35:22.000 I go, I'm just going to grab this guy.

01:35:23.000 I'm like, I'm not getting punched in the face.

01:35:26.000 Because sucker punches happen.

01:35:28.000 Especially if you're not ready to get punched and you get punched, you can get fucked up.

01:35:33.000 Especially if you don't think someone's going to punch you, and then they do.

01:35:36.000 So I'm always thinking when someone raises their voice, they're ready to punch me.

01:35:40.000 I'm just going to clamp down this dude's neck, get a hold of him.

01:35:43.000 So I just grabbed him.

01:35:44.000 I didn't hurt him.

01:35:44.000 Yeah, I was fucking...

01:35:45.000 That made me a...

01:35:47.000 I always liked Joe, but I was a fucking Joe Rogan fan.

01:35:51.000 He called the police on me, though.

01:35:53.000 The police had to go over the...

01:35:54.000 He claimed I hit him.

01:35:55.000 He claimed a bunch of shit.

01:35:56.000 The police had to go over the videotape.

01:35:58.000 They had to show all the footage from all the different cameras.

01:36:01.000 Yeah.

01:36:02.000 See, I never really hit him.

01:36:03.000 I was a fucking real Joe Rogan fan after that, man.

01:36:07.000 Fuck yeah.

01:36:09.000 You have guys challenge you to fight over social media?

01:36:15.000 No.

01:36:15.000 Idiots, maybe.

01:36:16.000 I'm friendly.

01:36:17.000 Yeah, no, but there's idiots.

01:36:19.000 In real life when people meet me, I'm always friendly.

01:36:23.000 There's so many idiots on social media.

01:36:26.000 There's a lot of idiots.

01:36:27.000 I know you've got to have somebody, oh, I'll kick your ass.

01:36:30.000 Well, see, the idiots are the reason why I never was getting your information in the first place when you're reaching out to me, because I'm not paying attention to anything.

01:36:38.000 Right, right.

01:36:39.000 If I dip my toes in the water occasionally, I'm like, see what the fuck's going on in the world.

01:36:43.000 Like, oh, fuck.

01:36:45.000 Yeah, that's enough of that.

01:36:46.000 Fuck out of here.

01:36:46.000 Yeah, that's enough.

01:36:47.000 I've seen too many people, it starts their day off in a bad way, and they get obsessed with it, and they start going battling back and forth with people in the comments.

01:36:56.000 Guilty.

01:36:58.000 Guilty as well.

01:36:59.000 I saw you doing that after you and I had the discussion.

01:37:03.000 You were going back and flushing people.

01:37:05.000 Joe Rogan has got some fucking fans.

01:37:08.000 Man, they wanted to fucking string my ass up, boy.

01:37:11.000 How dare you talk to Joe like that?

01:37:14.000 I said, motherfucker, this is between me and Joe.

01:37:16.000 What the fuck do you got?

01:37:17.000 Yeah, people want to jump in.

01:37:18.000 Oh, they want to kill me and fucking assassinate me, too.

01:37:21.000 They want to make you feel bad.

01:37:22.000 It's what they really want to do.

01:37:23.000 They want to figure out a way they can point out that you're wrong or make you feel stupid.

01:37:29.000 Almost all of it is unhealthy people.

01:37:34.000 Unhappy.

01:37:34.000 Maybe you're not bad people who are doing this, but it's an unhealthy practice to just lash out.

01:37:40.000 There's not even people that are really in your life.

01:37:42.000 It's one thing to have a debate about things, and I think this is where we as human beings have to learn how to use social media better.

01:37:49.000 Because there's nothing wrong with having discussions about things.

01:37:52.000 But you've got to figure out a way to do it where you're not just trying to hurt someone's feelings all the time and lashing out.

01:37:57.000 Because that's what a lot of it is.

01:37:58.000 It's just bitter feelings.

01:38:00.000 Very small-minded squabbling.

01:38:02.000 Even if you're using big words, the intent behind it is very small-minded.

01:38:07.000 Exactly.

01:38:08.000 People send me videos of them working out all the time.

01:38:14.000 And...

01:38:16.000 Some of them are not doing it correctly, but I don't criticize people.

01:38:23.000 The most important thing to me is that they're trying.

01:38:27.000 They're actually in there trying to do something, but man, other people don't look at it like that.

01:38:34.000 Oh, you're fucked up.

01:38:35.000 You're doing that fucking wrong.

01:38:36.000 You're fucking, why do you, you don't know what the fuck you do.

01:38:39.000 They jump on them immediately, you know, and try to discourage them people that are at least trying to do something or try to discourage them.

01:38:47.000 And it's got, there's so many fucking experts out there.

01:38:50.000 Oh, you're not doing this correctly.

01:38:52.000 Your form is fucked up.

01:38:53.000 I'm like, man, why do that?

01:38:56.000 I mean, if you really want to do that, then direct message to people.

01:38:59.000 If you're really trying to help them, direct message.

01:39:01.000 Why put it out there so everybody can see it?

01:39:04.000 You know, you're just trying to draw attention to yourself.

01:39:06.000 There's a lot of that, right?

01:39:07.000 Yeah, oh, there's a lot of that.

01:39:08.000 I just want people to look at me.

01:39:10.000 I'm an expert.

01:39:10.000 I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

01:39:11.000 Fuck them guys.

01:39:12.000 I don't like them.

01:39:13.000 Yeah.

01:39:14.000 And what's interesting, too, about exercise is there's some things that are debatable in terms of the way to do it and the way not to do it.

01:39:21.000 There's not necessarily always a consensus about how someone's doing something right, whether it's like, you know, like there's just a lot of people online that are just making a lot of noise.

01:39:31.000 Yeah.

01:39:31.000 It's hard to figure out who's right and who's wrong.

01:39:34.000 Yeah, well, I think it's only right and wrong for you.

01:39:38.000 I mean, you try.

01:39:39.000 If Joe Rogan tells me I have to do something a certain way and I try it and it works for me, then fuck, I'm going to do it.

01:39:44.000 Right.

01:39:45.000 If it works for me, if it works for me, because we all are so goddamn different.

01:39:50.000 Yeah.

01:39:50.000 We're not, nobody's exactly the same.

01:39:53.000 Yeah.

01:39:53.000 So when somebody says, now if somebody says they got the perfect routine, it's going to work for everybody, then that guy you got to be leery of.

01:40:01.000 He's full of shit.

01:40:02.000 Yeah.

01:40:02.000 Because nobody has one routine that's going to work for every fucking party.

01:40:05.000 It's just impossible.

01:40:06.000 It's not going to happen.

01:40:07.000 Yeah, I agree.

01:40:08.000 And I think especially it's really interesting with MMA because the fact that Hoist Gracie burst onto the scene in 1993, that was not that long ago.

01:40:16.000 Right.

01:40:16.000 I mean, that's really 24 years is not a lot of time.

01:40:19.000 It's just too similar or it's too close.

01:40:22.000 And so there's all these different methods that have been sort of devised along the way.

01:40:27.000 Yeah.

01:40:28.000 Until someone comes along, someone's like an Anderson Silva that's super successful doing it one way.

01:40:34.000 And then you go, well, how the fuck is he doing it?

01:40:35.000 We've got to do it his way.

01:40:36.000 Yeah, but you're not him.

01:40:37.000 Maybe you started out as a wrestler, whereas he's a Muay Thai guy.

01:40:41.000 Maybe it works good for him, but maybe you need a different approach.

01:40:43.000 Nobody really knows how to do it for you.

01:40:46.000 You have to kind of figure out your own way.

01:40:48.000 Exactly.

01:40:49.000 And you've got to hone it and tweak it along the way while you're competing.

01:40:53.000 It's hard.

01:40:54.000 Yeah.

01:40:54.000 Well, the real innovators or the real guys, you know, I'm sure that they did that.

01:41:02.000 They're not trying to copy.

01:41:04.000 Yeah.

01:41:05.000 It's so important to be an original.

01:41:08.000 Damnly anything.

01:41:09.000 I mean, if you're set out to try to be Joe Rogan, you're going to fail, motherfucker, because it ain't but one Joe Rogan.

01:41:16.000 And so...

01:41:18.000 Try, I tell you that all the time, hey CT, I want to be just like you.

01:41:22.000 Don't be just like me, motherfucker.

01:41:24.000 Be your damn self.

01:41:26.000 You know, be yourself, man.

01:41:28.000 Don't try to be just like Joe Rogan.

01:41:30.000 Be yourself, because you can't be Joe Rogan.

01:41:32.000 It's hard to tell people that, though.

01:41:34.000 If you see someone who inspires you and you admire them and you want to do what they're doing, it's hard.

01:41:39.000 But everybody starts out in the beginning, especially when you're a young person, when you admire someone, you kind of copy a lot of their mannerisms and the way they do it.

01:41:47.000 But eventually you've got to find yourself.

01:41:49.000 Oh yeah, definitely.

01:41:50.000 I used to go around, I float like a butterfly, like Muhammad Ali.

01:41:56.000 I was Muhammad Ali when I was a kid, man.

01:41:58.000 I wanted to be him, and then I wanted to be Bruce Lee.

01:42:01.000 Sure.

01:42:02.000 I got into fucking point karate, you know, point tournament.

01:42:07.000 Oh, were you doing that on?

01:42:08.000 Yeah, Joe Rossi, you didn't know that.

01:42:10.000 No, I didn't know.

01:42:10.000 I was a point fighter, and I came very close.

01:42:15.000 Goddamn Tybo.

01:42:16.000 Tybo.

01:42:17.000 Billy Blanks.

01:42:17.000 Came very close to fighting Billy Blanks in Long Beach Arena.

01:42:23.000 Ed Parker's Kempo Karate put on the International Karate Championship every year.

01:42:28.000 And I was very close to fighting Billy Blanks.

01:42:30.000 And every time I see Billy now, I say, Billy, I thank you so much.

01:42:34.000 Because the guy, when I seen the finals, Billy fucked that guy up.

01:42:38.000 It was supposed to be...

01:42:39.000 Point, and he knocked the motherfucker out.

01:42:41.000 Well, Billy, you know, fought, even in point, like, they would hit each other hard.

01:42:46.000 Oh, hell yeah.

01:42:46.000 You know, like, Billy was knocked out before, too, in point karate tournaments.

01:42:50.000 People got knocked out in those tournaments.

01:42:51.000 I know, I know.

01:42:53.000 And they made them fight after they got knocked out.

01:42:55.000 Yeah.

01:42:56.000 Nobody knew any better back then.

01:42:57.000 Bring yourself back, revive yourself, and keep fighting, man.

01:43:01.000 Yeah.

01:43:01.000 It was, it was, uh...

01:43:03.000 It was pretty good.

01:43:04.000 I love Marshall, but my favorite sport, I think bar none of all, not over weightlifting.

01:43:10.000 MMA is getting really close.

01:43:12.000 It was really close, but I think it's boxing.

01:43:14.000 You love boxing more?

01:43:15.000 Oh, I love it.

01:43:17.000 I love it.

01:43:18.000 Who's your favorite fighter?

01:43:19.000 Do you have a favorite?

01:43:20.000 Oh, man.

01:43:22.000 That's really hard.

01:43:23.000 As a role model, I guess Muhammad Ali would be my favorite as a role model, but not because of what he did in the ring.

01:43:33.000 It's more so because of what he did outside the ring.

01:43:36.000 It's why I hold him in such high regard.

01:43:40.000 Roy Jones Jr., of course Mike Tyson.

01:43:43.000 Roy Jones Jr. In his prime, there was nobody like Roy.

01:43:47.000 Roy was on a completely different level.

01:43:49.000 He wasn't even jabbing.

01:43:50.000 He was leaping in with a left hook.

01:43:52.000 And he was muscular too, Joe.

01:43:55.000 And he was weird shaped.

01:43:57.000 His biceps were giant, but he had small triceps.

01:44:00.000 Yeah, his biceps were giant.

01:44:03.000 Went all the way up to heavyweight, remember that?

01:44:04.000 And one.

01:44:05.000 Yeah, beat John Ruiz for the heavyweight title.

01:44:07.000 Dude, I remember.

01:44:08.000 You don't want to talk about boxing.

01:44:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:44:11.000 No, man.

01:44:12.000 I'm all fucking boxing.

01:44:13.000 Yeah, me too.

01:44:14.000 God, man.

01:44:15.000 Really.

01:44:15.000 Well, I'm a fan of boxing, too.

01:44:17.000 You know, even though I work for the UFC. MMA is your number one, though, right?

01:44:20.000 Well, I like MMA better because...

01:44:24.000 Anything can happen.

01:44:25.000 You can get head kicked.

01:44:26.000 You can get kicked down, strangled.

01:44:27.000 There's so many possibilities that it's more complicated.

01:44:30.000 What I call MMA, I call it high-level problem-solving with dire physical consequences.

01:44:35.000 Ooh!

01:44:36.000 That's what it is.

01:44:37.000 Excellent explanation.

01:44:38.000 Yeah, because you've got all these tools.

01:44:39.000 You have all these tools.

01:44:40.000 He has all these tools.

01:44:41.000 You go in there and you try to figure out who's got the best approach and who's going to be able to use their body, who's going to be able to use their talent, their skill, their dedication, who's going to be able to figure out a way to solve your problem.

01:44:51.000 Wow.

01:44:52.000 What do you think about Nate Diaz?

01:44:53.000 He's a bad motherfucker.

01:44:54.000 I love fucking Nate Diaz, man.

01:44:57.000 I love Nate Diaz.

01:44:57.000 I met him at a fight, a UFC fight, and he was...

01:45:02.000 The humblest.

01:45:03.000 He was so nice, man.

01:45:05.000 He goes, you know, I'm not fucking jack like you, but I do my thing.

01:45:09.000 And I'm like, fucking, you're a fucking killer, man.

01:45:12.000 Yeah, he's a great guy.

01:45:13.000 But he's another guy who's a perfect example of how you can't make everyone train the same way.

01:45:19.000 He's incredibly successful, but a lot of his training is not weightlifting.

01:45:23.000 He does triathlons.

01:45:24.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:45:25.000 I mean, he does his jujitsu and his kickboxing and all the other stuff.

01:45:28.000 But on top of that, like, he does crazy endurance work.

01:45:31.000 Yeah, Nick and Nick.

01:45:33.000 I love both them brothers, man.

01:45:36.000 I met King Mo.

01:45:38.000 He was real cool.

01:45:39.000 I met a lot of guys at fights.

01:45:43.000 The most famous referee.

01:45:46.000 Big John McCarthy?

01:45:47.000 Big John McCarthy.

01:45:48.000 Excellent guy.

01:45:50.000 He was really friendly.

01:45:51.000 He's a very good guy.

01:45:52.000 I couldn't really figure out why these guys like me so much.

01:45:58.000 George St. Pierre, he said, I want you to make a special video for me before one of his big fights.

01:46:05.000 So I'm spitting all over the mic and shit, and I'm making fucking hardcore.

01:46:10.000 And then he made a video back for me.

01:46:12.000 I had his fucking phone.

01:46:14.000 George St. Pierre had his fucking phone number, man.

01:46:16.000 He called me and said, CT, can you do a one-arm pull-up?

01:46:19.000 I said, no, I can't do it.

01:46:20.000 He said, I can't either.

01:46:21.000 Let's see who could be the first one to do a one-arm pull-up.

01:46:23.000 I said, you're on George.

01:46:24.000 Wow.

01:46:26.000 And I'm like, I don't know.

01:46:29.000 I couldn't really understand why fighters like me so much.

01:46:34.000 I can't understand why they like me.

01:46:36.000 Fighters need motivation.

01:46:38.000 Man, I guess so.

01:46:39.000 That's what it is, yeah.

01:46:40.000 That's a big part of it.

01:46:42.000 Well, because you're real.

01:46:43.000 You're 100% real.

01:46:44.000 You are who you are.

01:46:44.000 You don't put on any false airs.

01:46:46.000 But also, inspiration is critical for fighters because they're always tired.

01:46:50.000 They're always trying to find the energy to keep going.

01:46:53.000 They're always trying to find that push to get up and keep going.

01:46:57.000 When you're two months into camp and every day is a grind and you're just exhausted, you know, and it's repetitive.

01:47:04.000 You're constantly drilling, constantly sparring, strength and conditioning, you're swimming, you're running, you're doing this, you're doing that.

01:47:09.000 And then the impending moment of that fight is constantly looming in the background of your life.

01:47:15.000 There's no escape from it.

01:47:16.000 And like you need, like sometimes you need like a C.T. Fletcher video to get you over the hump.

01:47:21.000 Wow, I guess.

01:47:23.000 I mean, because I have the utmost respect for fighters, boxers, and MMA guys especially.

01:47:32.000 I mean, anybody.

01:47:35.000 The guy who gets knocked out every time he steps in, I respect the fuck out of him.

01:47:40.000 Because he had the testicular fortitude to step through the fucking gate, man, and get in there and actually do.

01:47:46.000 Do you know?

01:47:47.000 Joe, I know you know, but people don't understand...

01:48:00.000 Yeah.

01:48:01.000 Yeah.

01:48:03.000 Yeah.

01:48:11.000 And there's nothing compared to MMA crowds.

01:48:14.000 And they have people...

01:48:15.000 That crowd makes a big fucking difference, Joe.

01:48:18.000 I got so fucking nervous.

01:48:21.000 Everything that I had learned, I fucking forgot.

01:48:25.000 As soon as that guy kicked me upside the head, I forgot.

01:48:28.000 Every fucking...

01:48:28.000 Every cotter, all that shit went right out the window.

01:48:31.000 I went and tried to kill him.

01:48:33.000 I forgot everything.

01:48:34.000 I went straight to Compton, man.

01:48:36.000 I forgot all my cotters and everything.

01:48:38.000 And I... It takes a tremendous, and that's why I respect the guy so much because I have an inkling of an idea.

01:48:48.000 I don't have a real idea because I've never done this yet, but I have an inkling of an idea of what it takes to actually get in that octagon and be for all those thousands of people and for millions of people watching on TV and perform.

01:49:03.000 And rise.

01:49:04.000 And rise to the occasion.

01:49:06.000 Yeah, rise to that fucking occasion.

01:49:07.000 Some guys actually literally fight better than they train.

01:49:10.000 They're better inside the cage.

01:49:12.000 There's a rare human being that when the chips are down, when it's difficult, when the situation is intense pressure, they shine.

01:49:19.000 They're at their best.

01:49:21.000 Do you have a problem?

01:49:23.000 Do you think you would have a problem in your youth if you got a guy in trouble to pound on that guy?

01:49:29.000 It's hard if you've been hurt before and you know what you're doing to the guy.

01:49:33.000 I think a lot of guys get very upset when a referee doesn't stop the fight in time, and I think for good reason.

01:49:38.000 They'll look at the referee and go, what the fuck?

01:49:40.000 How many times do you want me to hit this dude?

01:49:43.000 He's barely defending himself.

01:49:45.000 Obviously he's out.

01:49:47.000 But in the moment, the heat of the battle...

01:49:53.000 I think it also depends on how you feel about that person.

01:49:57.000 Like the recent fight between TJ Dillashaw and Cody Garbrandt.

01:50:01.000 They had this intense, intense feud.

01:50:03.000 And then finally TJ catches him, hurts him, drops him, and then puts him out.

01:50:08.000 And you can tell when he's smashing him when he's out.

01:50:10.000 You know, he's not thinking good things about him.

01:50:13.000 He's not thinking about letting off the gas.

01:50:14.000 No, he's trying to kill him.

01:50:15.000 And then when Cody got up and he was just still dazing, TJ's in his face, screaming in his face.

01:50:22.000 There's nothing like fighting.

01:50:23.000 No, it's nothing like it.

01:50:24.000 It's not like any other sport.

01:50:26.000 I talked to a UFC fighter.

01:50:30.000 I'm not going to mention his name because I don't know if he wants me to or not, so I'm not going to do it.

01:50:36.000 But he told me that he goes into some fights, not all of them, having a real fear of hurting his opponent.

01:50:44.000 And I think it's really hard.

01:50:46.000 To do your absolute best when you have that fear of doing real damage to your opponent.

01:50:54.000 It's one more element.

01:50:55.000 I think he would be a champion if he could completely get rid of that.

01:51:02.000 It's very hard.

01:51:04.000 But when you're going in the ring, And it's your job to stop this guy, to stop your opponent.

01:51:12.000 And if you're going in hoping that you don't hurt him, then I don't think you can perform to your utmost capabilities if that's really foremost in your mind.

01:51:24.000 I don't want to hurt this guy.

01:51:25.000 Yeah, I think fighters only have a certain amount of time they can compete as well before the overwhelming reality of what they're doing sets in.

01:51:32.000 I mean, in the beginning, when they're 19, 20, 21, they're just fucking full of piss and vinegar and shit and lightning and kicking people in the head and just, whoa!

01:51:41.000 Every day is just chaos.

01:51:42.000 And then as time goes on, you deal with your own injuries.

01:51:46.000 You start to see people...

01:51:49.000 Just suffer the repercussions of a career in combat sports.

01:51:52.000 And then as you get older, you just realize what this is really that you're doing.

01:51:56.000 So you think Rumble Johnson was really smart?

01:51:59.000 I think Rumble is the scariest fucking guy at 205 pounds.

01:52:04.000 Terrifying, right?

01:52:05.000 And then decides after a world title fight, like, I don't want to do this.

01:52:09.000 Fuck this.

01:52:10.000 I don't want to hug dudes, get hit in the head.

01:52:11.000 He goes, I'm not really a fighter.

01:52:13.000 He goes, I was a really good athlete.

01:52:15.000 I'm just real good at it.

01:52:16.000 Take it easy, everybody.

01:52:17.000 Man, you know, I talked to Rome on social media back and forth with Rome.

01:52:23.000 Really cool kid.

01:52:24.000 Very good guy.

01:52:25.000 And I respect the fuck out of his decision, man.

01:52:28.000 I respect the...

01:52:29.000 But he's talked about coming back now.

01:52:31.000 Yeah, you know, well, I mean, I'm sure that someone is going to make him an offer that he can't refuse.

01:52:37.000 Well, he's very marketable, I'll tell you that.

01:52:40.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:52:40.000 A guy who can do what he can do to people.

01:52:43.000 Destroy people, man.

01:52:44.000 Just fucking destroy them.

01:52:46.000 He's a good example also of someone who cut weight when they shouldn't have.

01:52:50.000 Yeah.

01:52:51.000 I hate weight cutting.

01:52:52.000 I think it's the worst thing that fighters do to themselves.

01:52:54.000 I think it's even worse than fighting.

01:52:56.000 Wow.

01:52:57.000 There's guys that get organ failure.

01:52:58.000 A woman just died in Australia who was cutting weight for an amateur kickboxing fight.

01:53:02.000 Oh, my God.

01:53:02.000 It's just a terrible, terrible practice that people do.

01:53:05.000 But he was one of the biggest weight cutters ever.

01:53:08.000 He was well over 200 pounds getting down to 170. And when he was at 170, he was smashing people.

01:53:14.000 But as long as it was quick.

01:53:16.000 Because he had dehydrated himself so bad that when he'd get into the third, fourth, and fifth round, he just had nothing left.

01:53:22.000 He just was so drained.

01:53:23.000 At heavyweight, he would be fucking terrifying.

01:53:26.000 Oh, man.

01:53:27.000 Terrifying.

01:53:28.000 Oh, my God.

01:53:29.000 Yeah.

01:53:30.000 If he really wants to do it.

01:53:31.000 Maybe he just needed a break.

01:53:33.000 I mean, who knows?

01:53:34.000 Sometimes guys just need to take some time off and chill.

01:53:36.000 I think somebody's going to offer him because he's very marketable.

01:53:40.000 I think he's in the weed business now.

01:53:42.000 Yeah, I did see that!

01:53:45.000 Go Rumble!

01:53:47.000 Puppies.

01:53:49.000 He's got a few things going on.

01:53:50.000 He's got a kennel.

01:53:52.000 He's involved in some businesses.

01:53:54.000 He's obviously not damaged.

01:53:56.000 When you talk to him, he's totally there.

01:54:01.000 He's not suffered the damage that a lot of fighters have suffered.

01:54:04.000 If he did decide to get out now, he's at a good place in his life where he's accomplished a lot.

01:54:10.000 He's going to walk away unscathed.

01:54:12.000 Yeah, as long as he, you know, can make money doing other shit, I don't see...

01:54:17.000 He would just touch people.

01:54:18.000 Yeah.

01:54:19.000 Just touch them.

01:54:19.000 Boom!

01:54:20.000 And you would see the lights go out.

01:54:21.000 Oh my God.

01:54:22.000 Like Glover to Sheriff.

01:54:23.000 Nobody ever did that to Glover like that.

01:54:25.000 Yeah!

01:54:26.000 One uppercut.

01:54:26.000 Blam!

01:54:27.000 And it's over.

01:54:28.000 It's over.

01:54:28.000 Go home.

01:54:29.000 Yeah.

01:54:30.000 Yeah, I want to see him punch that thing that Francis Ngannou punches.

01:54:33.000 He might be right up there with Francis.

01:54:34.000 I would like to see that too.

01:54:36.000 Rumble's a terrifying human.

01:54:38.000 Terrifying.

01:54:39.000 You know, it's a very interesting sport to follow because there's so many exceptional human beings that are competing in this thing, that are involved in this high-level problem-solving event.

01:54:51.000 It's just you see these human beings that are pushing themselves, their minds, their bodies to such extreme limits that it's very valuable for people.

01:54:59.000 Much like I say, your videos are very valuable.

01:55:01.000 It's very valuable for people to be able to watch someone competing at such a high level.

01:55:05.000 Oh my god.

01:55:06.000 I mean, I'm a pay-per-view nut, man.

01:55:09.000 If I ain't there in person, I'm buying it, Jack.

01:55:12.000 I won't miss it.

01:55:13.000 Yeah, me too.

01:55:16.000 Did he fucking say me too?

01:55:18.000 That's true.

01:55:19.000 But I am a fan.

01:55:20.000 You're fucking at all of them, man.

01:55:22.000 I'm not at all of them.

01:55:23.000 That's true.

01:55:23.000 That is true.

01:55:24.000 I have seen a couple.

01:55:25.000 Less of them than ever before.

01:55:26.000 I have seen a couple.

01:55:27.000 I'm down to just North American pay-per-views now.

01:55:29.000 Yeah.

01:55:29.000 That's all I do.

01:55:30.000 Yeah.

01:55:31.000 Really?

01:55:31.000 Yeah, it's too much traveling, man.

01:55:32.000 Flying Australian shit.

01:55:34.000 Yeah.

01:55:34.000 Breaks you down.

01:55:35.000 Yeah.

01:55:37.000 I can't imagine, because before I had the heart attack, I was traveling.

01:55:42.000 Every weekend, I'm in a different city, man.

01:55:45.000 It will really run you the fuck down, man.

01:55:48.000 But I know my traveling schedule had to be nothing compared to yours.

01:55:52.000 One year was rough.

01:55:53.000 One year, I think I did 24 events.

01:55:56.000 That was the most I ever did, 22 or 24, and it was crazy.

01:55:59.000 It was like every other weekend, I was flying somewhere.

01:56:01.000 Wow.

01:56:02.000 That was before someone else started doing, like, picking up some of the work.

01:56:07.000 Like, the UFC then hired a second commentary team, and they started doing the Fox Sports events and different events.

01:56:14.000 You got other shit going, too, man.

01:56:16.000 And I have a family.

01:56:17.000 I still have time for all that shit.

01:56:19.000 But I still enjoy it.

01:56:20.000 I still love it.

01:56:21.000 It's still fun.

01:56:22.000 How many comedian gigs do you do?

01:56:26.000 Well, I work all the time.

01:56:27.000 I'm working tonight at the Comedy Store tonight.

01:56:30.000 I'm working tomorrow.

01:56:31.000 This weekend I'm working in Detroit the night before the UFC. I got a couple shows in Detroit.

01:56:36.000 So I'm always doing stand-up.

01:56:37.000 But stand-up is in a lot of ways like an athletic event and you have to be in shape for it.

01:56:43.000 You can't get out of shape.

01:56:44.000 If you get out of shape, you'll be rusty up there.

01:56:47.000 How you deal with hecklers, Joe?

01:56:48.000 Just shut them down.

01:56:50.000 Just sit them down.

01:56:52.000 Most people don't heckle.

01:56:55.000 It's the rare dummy that steps out and wants to bark at you.

01:56:59.000 Yeah, you will get a rare dummy.

01:57:01.000 A rare dummy every now and then.

01:57:02.000 Rare dummies exist, man.

01:57:03.000 Yep, they do.

01:57:04.000 So listen, brother, I've got to wrap this up.

01:57:06.000 Okay.

01:57:06.000 I wish you the best, and I really appreciate you coming here, and I'm really excited that we got a chance to talk.

01:57:11.000 And what I said I really mean.

01:57:13.000 I think you're very valuable.

01:57:15.000 I think what you've done is...

01:57:16.000 I mean, I know it just kind of came to you out of nowhere by accident, but I think you've helped a tremendous amount of people, and I know you've helped me.

01:57:23.000 Oh, man, Joe, I appreciate that so much, and I appreciate the opportunity to be on your show.

01:57:29.000 I feel like I finally made it, my Joe Rogan experience.

01:57:33.000 Well, listen, man, keep us posted with your health, and we're going to send you all the best positive energy and wishes we can, and I really hope you get that transplant and everything works out well, and we'll have you in afterwards, and we'll talk about it, man.

01:57:45.000 God bless you, Joe.

01:57:46.000 C.T. Fletcher, ladies and gentlemen.

Joe Rogan Experience #1044 - C.T. Fletcher

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