The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1147 - Dr. Debra Soh

00:00:02.000 Five, four, three, two, one.

00:00:07.000 Hello, Dr. So.

00:00:08.000 Hi.

00:00:09.000 What's happening? 1.00

00:00:09.000 Pull this sucker about a fist from your face. 1.00

00:00:12.000 There you go. 1.00

00:00:12.000 Is that good? 1.00

00:00:13.000 Yeah, perfect.

00:00:14.000 Thanks for doing this.

00:00:15.000 Appreciate it.

00:00:15.000 Thank you for having me.

00:00:17.000 I've watched a bunch of your videos.

00:00:19.000 I've listened to a bunch of your talks, read a bunch of your work.

00:00:22.000 Very interesting person.

00:00:23.000 Thank you.

00:00:24.000 And this is a good time for a person like you.

00:00:26.000 Things seem to be kind of scrambled.

00:00:28.000 A little bit, yeah.

00:00:29.000 It's a little topsy-turvy out there these days.

00:00:30.000 Yeah, a little bit crazy.

00:00:31.000 So you're a sex neuroscientist? 0.86

00:00:34.000 Is that an accurate description?

00:00:36.000 Yeah, I'm a former academic sex researcher.

00:00:38.000 My PhD is in sexual neuroscience research, and now I work as a science journalist and a columnist.

00:00:44.000 And why former?

00:00:46.000 Because the climate in academia has changed so much.

00:00:51.000 Like you mentioned how things are topsy-turvy, but that's pretty much how you can describe academia nowadays, even in the hard sciences.

00:00:57.000 Yeah, it's getting a little weird.

00:01:00.000 What are you attributed to?

00:01:03.000 I think it's a combination of things.

00:01:05.000 I think it's particular ideologies coming in and taking over.

00:01:08.000 But they've been there for a while.

00:01:10.000 But I think it's that they've reached the mainstream.

00:01:12.000 I see it as political correctness running amok.

00:01:16.000 And I see it as legitimate researchers not being able to speak out because they've got enough on their plate with their research, their teaching, they've got their students, you know, they're super busy.

00:01:28.000 And then on top of it, they don't want to deal with the mobbing that will inevitably happen if they do speak out.

00:01:32.000 So things are kind of in favor right now of the craziness.

00:01:35.000 But it's fascinating, though, as an outsider to watch the craziness.

00:01:39.000 I bet.

00:01:40.000 Yeah.

00:01:40.000 I mean, I'm glad I don't have to be in school right now and deal with it.

00:01:44.000 But to watch it from the outside, it's just so interesting.

00:01:48.000 Interesting in what way, though?

00:01:49.000 Well, because it's almost like...

00:01:52.000 There's sort of a delusional aspect to it, like an agreed-upon delusional aspect.

00:01:58.000 It's like the gender one in particular. 0.99

00:02:02.000 Gender is very strange right now. 0.92

00:02:05.000 There's, first of all, the LBGTQIA, what else? 0.87

00:02:13.000 Et cetera, et cetera.

00:02:14.000 Are there more?

00:02:15.000 There are tons, yeah.

00:02:16.000 They're adding more to it.

00:02:17.000 They keep adding more, yeah, to be more inclusive.

00:02:19.000 You okay, Jamie?

00:02:20.000 Something going on?

00:02:21.000 Oh.

00:02:22.000 What's going on?

00:02:23.000 It's alright.

00:02:24.000 I got it.

00:02:24.000 Alright.

00:02:25.000 I thought maybe we were down again.

00:02:27.000 Yeah, it's just – but gender in particular.

00:02:30.000 One of the things that I said about – one of the more bizarre things about today's political climate is that people selectively agree with science.

00:02:42.000 It's like when it comes to climate change, everybody is pro-science, science all the way.

00:02:47.000 Look at the studies.

00:02:49.000 Even when they don't even understand the studies, there's a famous...

00:02:53.000 You get in trouble when you bring up Tucker Carlson, because people go, oh, you're a Tucker Carlson fan.

00:02:59.000 As a human being...

00:03:01.000 I'm not going to get mad.

00:03:02.000 He made some very good points with Bill Nye.

00:03:05.000 He had Bill Nye on.

00:03:07.000 They were talking about science, and he said, okay, if human beings are responsible for climate change...

00:03:12.000 What percentage?

00:03:13.000 What are the numbers?

00:03:14.000 Like, and Bill Nye really isn't a scientist.

00:03:17.000 He's a science, you know, what would you call him?

00:03:21.000 Personality.

00:03:21.000 He's a media personality.

00:03:22.000 He's a guy who's, you know, he's a promoter of science, but not really necessarily a scientist.

00:03:28.000 So he doesn't have long-term study and research to climate change.

00:03:33.000 He's just sort of on there.

00:03:36.000 In a slightly arrogant way, saying things that I agree with.

00:03:40.000 Like, what I agree with is that human beings are responsible, at least in part, with climate change.

00:03:44.000 This is what all the research points to.

00:03:46.000 But when Tucker Carlson was pressing him on it, he really didn't have any answers for it.

00:03:50.000 So it's one of those things where, like, people on the left will blindly support science in one way.

00:03:56.000 Is that you or me, dang it?

00:03:57.000 If it's me, I'm going to be very upset with myself.

00:03:59.000 Don't think it's me. 0.99

00:04:00.000 I'm a loser. 0.97

00:04:02.000 But then when it comes to gender, you watch his show. 0.93

00:04:07.000 He's got this wacky show on Netflix where they're singing songs about gender can be fluid and gender can be this.

00:04:14.000 There's more than two.

00:04:15.000 Yeah, there's more than two genders, which he didn't used to say.

00:04:18.000 I did see that.

00:04:20.000 There was another episode where they clearly say that gender is binary.

00:04:24.000 Yeah, this is like way back before all this nuttiness.

00:04:26.000 So it's influencing people who are deciding instead of supporting science and supporting the research on actual human beings as a biological organism.

00:04:40.000 Instead, we're going with this bizarre politically correct climate Which inclines people to this weird, delusional thinking.

00:04:50.000 And as an outsider, that's what's interesting to me, to watch all this.

00:04:53.000 Like, look at this scrambling.

00:04:54.000 Look at this weirdness.

00:04:55.000 You know? 0.99

00:04:56.000 It's hypocritical. 0.94

00:04:57.000 It definitely is. 0.92

00:04:58.000 And it's interesting to see.

00:05:00.000 I mean, say, the March for Science, I attended that, not this past year, but the year before.

00:05:03.000 So people are there.

00:05:04.000 They're super excited about science, pro-science.

00:05:07.000 I think science is great.

00:05:08.000 Sure.

00:05:08.000 All this money should go to science.

00:05:09.000 And you ask them, okay, so you're down for climate change being real, but what about science now by the left?

00:05:16.000 And I asked so many people this while I was there because I was reporting on it for Playboy.com.

00:05:19.000 And it's amazing.

00:05:21.000 People get very uncomfortable.

00:05:22.000 They don't want to say anything about...

00:05:24.000 I would consider myself to be a liberal, but definitely liberals don't want to think about themselves being science deniers.

00:05:30.000 And when you look at how people talk about gender now and...

00:05:32.000 Biological sex differences in the brain.

00:05:35.000 Even biology more generally.

00:05:37.000 People get very defensive.

00:05:39.000 They get angry almost.

00:05:40.000 And they find it threatening for some reason, which I don't understand.

00:05:43.000 And that's a big part of my work is to say, I think we can acknowledge that these facts exist and that biological science is legitimate.

00:05:50.000 That doesn't mean that sexism is okay.

00:05:53.000 We're not saying that women are inferior or anything like that.

00:05:56.000 Exactly.

00:05:56.000 That's the big point about all this, right?

00:05:58.000 Is that we're not saying that anyone's inferior.

00:06:03.000 We're just not the same thing.

00:06:04.000 This is what the big problem is to try to say, I mean, I certainly think we should all have equal rights, but we're not equal in terms of what we are.

00:06:13.000 We're a different, and it's not that we're not equal like one's better.

00:06:17.000 It's just like saying a wolf is not equal to a cheetah. 0.98

00:06:20.000 They're fucking different things. 0.99

00:06:22.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:06:22.000 And males and females are different things. 0.99

00:06:25.000 Yeah.

00:06:25.000 And this is clear when you study us as an organism.

00:06:30.000 You know, I had a really bizarre conversation once with a guy who's a professor or a former professor, and he was trying to deny that there's a difference between men and women.

00:06:40.000 It's crazy.

00:06:41.000 And one of the things I said, I said, okay, you get a dog.

00:06:44.000 Do you ask, is this a boy dog or a girl dog?

00:06:47.000 And then he got, like, real weird.

00:06:49.000 There's really no answer to that. 1.00

00:06:50.000 Like, it's a fucking boy dog. 1.00

00:06:52.000 You want a boy dog, right? 1.00

00:06:54.000 Is it a non-binary dog? 0.99

00:06:56.000 Like, what is your dog?

00:06:57.000 Or it might change its mind tomorrow, right?

00:06:59.000 Is your dog gender fluid?

00:07:00.000 Like, what is gender fluid?

00:07:02.000 Well, it's this idea that you can be one gender one day, another gender the other day, or it might cycle through the day, or be in your mix of both. 0.99

00:07:10.000 That seems like if it was anything else, you would have to be fucking crazy. 0.99

00:07:15.000 It was anything else. 0.99

00:07:17.000 If you decided, well, today I'm African, or tomorrow I'm Chinese.

00:07:20.000 Oh, today I'm tall, tomorrow I'm short, today I'm a pixie, tomorrow I'm a wood elf.

00:07:26.000 But I think everybody is, we don't have to call it something like gender fluid.

00:07:30.000 Everyone is a mix of male and female, right?

00:07:32.000 Sure.

00:07:32.000 You have people that are maybe more typically masculine or more typically feminine, but even still, I don't think there are many people that are 100% one way or the other.

00:07:41.000 No.

00:07:41.000 Well, what does that even mean?

00:07:43.000 I mean, people are clearly more masculine than other people, but does that mean that the people like, you know, let's pick a person, Bill Nye.

00:07:51.000 Does that mean he's not a man?

00:07:52.000 He's clearly a man.

00:07:53.000 Exactly, yeah.

00:07:54.000 He's clearly a man.

00:07:54.000 He's not a LeBron James.

00:07:56.000 But he's a man.

00:07:58.000 There's obviously a spectrum.

00:08:00.000 Yeah.

00:08:01.000 I almost feel like that way of thinking is more old-fashioned because this is all about being progressive and open-minded.

00:08:05.000 But I think if someone is a man but is maybe more female-typical, to say that this person is a different category of gender or that they're, I don't know, not male, to me that's more stereotypical.

00:08:17.000 You know what I mean?

00:08:18.000 I think it's not progressive to say if you're a mix of both, you must be something different.

00:08:22.000 Well, you're not necessarily a mix of both, right?

00:08:24.000 You just have a different hormonal profile and a different...

00:08:28.000 Different body type, different...

00:08:30.000 I mean, people vary so much that, I mean, I think having some sort of categories to say, oh, this is a male and this is a female, it seems like it's pretty beneficial.

00:08:43.000 Yeah.

00:08:44.000 I mean, although we vary so widely inside those categories, to pretend that those categories don't exist just seems so weird.

00:08:51.000 We would never do that with any other organism.

00:08:53.000 Mm-hmm.

00:08:54.000 And it's a lot of work too.

00:08:55.000 You see these companies going and they're trying to be more with the times, I guess.

00:09:00.000 Everything is gender neutral now and I'm thinking, all of that money and time is being wasted when I don't think that does anything for women or sexism.

00:09:08.000 Instead of addressing someone by ladies and gentlemen, you say, people, is that really going to stop sexism?

00:09:15.000 It just makes people mad because then they have to change the way they talk.

00:09:18.000 I put up a story on Twitter the other day about people that are raising their kids with they and them.

00:09:24.000 I saw that, yeah.

00:09:25.000 They're calling them theybies instead of babies.

00:09:27.000 Fun times. 0.99

00:09:28.000 What the fuck is that? 0.99

00:09:30.000 Like, I just... 0.99

00:09:32.000 I think it's coming from, for some parents, it's coming from a good place.

00:09:35.000 Like, they obviously want the best for their kids, and they don't want to limit the kid in terms of what they might be interested in.

00:09:41.000 And I think because the media is telling them, if you let girls play with dolls, that's terrible, and they're going to end up, you know, not having any sort of prospects when they grow up in terms of their jobs, or, I don't know, it's such a terrible thing to be female-typical nowadays. 0.65

00:09:55.000 But, I mean, like you mentioned, it's biology that's going to dictate what your kids play with.

00:09:58.000 And then in other cases, I think it's parents that want to be special.

00:10:01.000 Well, it's also weird because if your son is trans, it's totally fine for him to be female typical. 0.94

00:10:09.000 It's celebrated.

00:10:10.000 If you have a trans son and he likes wearing lipstick and short skirts and prancing around, then he's fabulous. 1.00

00:10:17.000 There was a boy in New York and there was this whole thing about he's the youngest ever drag queen and everybody's going crazy and people were angry about it.

00:10:26.000 He's being exploited.

00:10:27.000 Yeah.

00:10:28.000 Some people were angry and saying he's being exploited by his parents.

00:10:31.000 And some people thought it was wonderful that this kid was so expressive when he's so young.

00:10:36.000 And then other people had a good point.

00:10:38.000 They said, well, it's very sexualized. 0.71

00:10:41.000 Like, how is this any different than someone who's in a beauty pageant, like a JonBenet Ramsey type situation when you're really young?

00:10:47.000 If it was a little girl, people would be up in arms saying that it's sexist and that it's the patriarchy. 1.00

00:10:52.000 But that little boy, so I don't know that he's trans.

00:10:55.000 I believe that he just likes to, like a man who's a drag queen is just a man. 0.99

00:11:00.000 It's usually a gay man who likes to dress, you know, like an extreme form of femininity. 0.99

00:11:05.000 I love drag queens. 1.00

00:11:06.000 But I think that little boy is likely going to grow up to be a gay boy. 0.98

00:11:09.000 If you have a little boy who says he's a girl, and you see a lot of these trans girls, if they were left alone and they didn't transition, they would likely... 0.97

00:11:16.000 Research shows they would grow up to be gay men. 0.92

00:11:19.000 Is that... 0.93

00:11:22.000 I mean, I'm 100% for freedom, right?

00:11:25.000 So I'm 100% for you being able to do whatever you want to do.

00:11:28.000 The real question becomes when people are trans and young, it's how much... 0.88

00:11:36.000 How much of this is gonna pass?

00:11:39.000 And how much of this are you going to stop from ever passing because you're going to inject your body filled with hormones?

00:11:45.000 Like, are you giving yourself the opportunity just to decide to become a gay man versus become a woman?

00:11:51.000 And would you be happier either or?

00:11:53.000 You know, it's very, very tricky.

00:11:55.000 But you can't even have that conversation now.

00:11:57.000 Right, you can't.

00:11:58.000 Because that's considered transphobic.

00:11:59.000 Right. 0.95

00:11:59.000 What it is is homophobic, though, that you can't consider that some of these kids just might be gay children. 0.95

00:12:04.000 Yeah. 0.95

00:12:05.000 Yeah.

00:12:05.000 But then the gender-fluid one.

00:12:07.000 I was reading this article about this guy who varies by the day.

00:12:12.000 In the day, he'll have periods of stress, so he'll switch over to a woman. 0.75

00:12:16.000 There was actually a Radiolab podcast where they interviewed a person that has the same issue.

00:12:22.000 And the person was clearly abnormal in the way they communicated and the way they thought.

00:12:30.000 It wasn't like you were dealing with some guy that you would trust with your taxes.

00:12:33.000 Mm-hmm.

00:12:34.000 You know what I mean?

00:12:34.000 It was like, the dude was wacky, and then now he's a chick, and now he's back to being a guy again.

00:12:39.000 So he actually transitioned?

00:12:41.000 In mid-conversation.

00:12:43.000 Like, physically?

00:12:44.000 No, I don't know.

00:12:45.000 I didn't see it, because you're just listening.

00:12:47.000 Okay, okay.

00:12:48.000 But he's like, well, now I'm Peter again.

00:12:50.000 Oh, I see what you mean.

00:12:50.000 Now I'm Wendy, you know?

00:12:52.000 Like, what the fuck? 0.99

00:12:53.000 Hi, Wendy. 0.99

00:12:54.000 Well, I don't know how much of that is indulgent.

00:12:58.000 I mean, I don't want to say, I know how you feel. 1.00

00:13:02.000 But I do want to say, hey, are you fucking crazy? 1.00

00:13:06.000 Are we just indulging crazy people? 1.00

00:13:09.000 Yeah, pathology. 0.98

00:13:09.000 I do believe there are people that are trans. 0.98

00:13:12.000 I absolutely believe that there are women that really are wired the wrong way and they should be men. 1.00

00:13:18.000 And there's men that are wired the wrong way.

00:13:20.000 It only makes sense.

00:13:21.000 It only makes sense. 0.97

00:13:22.000 But I do also think there's people that are crazy. 0.99

00:13:26.000 There's people that have legit mental illness. 0.84

00:13:29.000 They're delusional and they're also very susceptible to influence and very susceptible to, you know, someone persuading them that they are one thing or another thing. 0.98

00:13:42.000 Look, it's Those, like, Heaven's Gate cult people who cut their balls off and wore the Nikes and decided to kill themselves when the comet was near. 0.88

00:13:51.000 Remember that? 0.97

00:13:52.000 Yeah.

00:13:53.000 That's not normal, right? 0.99

00:13:54.000 It's not normal for someone to be able to talk you into cutting your balls off or putting on the purple sneakers or killing yourself when the comet's closed. 0.99

00:14:01.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:14:01.000 Because there's a spaceship waiting that's going to take you to Xenu or wherever the fuck you're going. 1.00

00:14:05.000 That's not normal either. 0.97

00:14:06.000 So we know that people are subject to very irrational behavior under the influence of other people's suggestions or other people's persuasion.

00:14:15.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:14:16.000 And this is a thing today where you have to wonder, like, how many of these people are legitimately trans?

00:14:22.000 How many of these people are legitimately dealing with a real mental issue that's causing them to shift from male to female and back again?

00:14:32.000 And why is it that we can't ask these questions?

00:14:35.000 Because why is it that even this question right now, I could be accused of being transphobic for asking how many of these people are ill.

00:14:43.000 Yeah.

00:14:43.000 Well, both of us are going to be accused of transphobia after this.

00:14:46.000 Yeah.

00:14:46.000 I mean, I would agree with that.

00:14:48.000 I do think that gender dysphoria is a legitimate phenomenon, and I do have a lot of empathy for people who are suffering.

00:14:54.000 And I think for adults, they should be allowed to transition if that's what they decide to do, if that's something that will help them feel better.

00:15:00.000 My issues with the kids, I don't think it's appropriate for children to be transitioning, and I can talk a bit more about why. 1.00

00:15:06.000 But I think in terms of the pathology aspect, I think for...

00:15:09.000 Because gender is so trendy right now.

00:15:12.000 And in the past, you might have seen this kind of pathology manifest in a different way.

00:15:17.000 But now because everyone is saying gender is the way to express, you know, I think people also see if you have a problem in your life, they think it's gender related.

00:15:25.000 So say with someone with a personality disorder, and people like a lot of attention, they like to...

00:15:31.000 It's always about them and their identity, and their identity shifts a lot.

00:15:34.000 So this could very well be what it is, and now they're being basically rewarded for that.

00:15:39.000 Yeah, that's the issue, right?

00:15:41.000 You're dealing with incredibly indulgent people, which do exist, and then they find this pathway to massive amounts of attention.

00:15:49.000 I had to construct a bit to mock Caitlyn Jenner. 0.93

00:15:55.000 I saw it.

00:15:55.000 But it was a very complicated bit.

00:15:57.000 I had to figure out how to do this. 0.95

00:15:59.000 I was like, obviously this is nonsense and foolish, but I don't want to appear cruel. 0.68

00:16:03.000 So what is the way to do this? 0.97

00:16:04.000 So my way was to mock myself mercilessly, which is kind of true.

00:16:10.000 I really do have three daughters, and I really do get brutalized in my house.

00:16:14.000 I really do think they chip away at my manhood.

00:16:16.000 It's kind of a joke.

00:16:18.000 But I mean, it really is.

00:16:19.000 It's all girly in my house. 1.00

00:16:21.000 My fucking house is so girly. 1.00

00:16:22.000 Everyone's girly. 1.00

00:16:23.000 They're always talking about girly shit. 1.00

00:16:24.000 It's kind of hilarious. 1.00

00:16:26.000 But the joke was that if my manhood was a mountain of marbles every day, they take two marbles.

00:16:32.000 They just take one.

00:16:34.000 You don't even need these.

00:16:35.000 He's like, what do you care?

00:16:36.000 God!

00:16:37.000 And then that I'm not going to go out like Bruce Jenner.

00:16:41.000 And that one day that they...

00:16:43.000 So I had to concoct this whole thing that they were demons, which is how they conjured up all that money.

00:16:48.000 Like how else would they have hundreds of millions of dollars through no discernible reason?

00:16:52.000 There's no way you could explain to someone how they made so much money if they didn't understand our culture.

00:16:59.000 Yeah.

00:16:59.000 Totally irrational, right?

00:17:00.000 So the idea was that they did this.

00:17:02.000 But why I did it was I wanted to sort of mock this thing that was happening where you got a male Kardashian.

00:17:11.000 That's what he is.

00:17:12.000 And who doesn't believe in gay marriage? 0.96

00:17:15.000 Who decides he's a woman, which I firmly believe he's trans. 0.75

00:17:19.000 I'm not denying that at all.

00:17:20.000 But our obsession with it and rewarding him with ungodly amounts of attention. 1.00

00:17:27.000 This motherfucker won the gold medal, okay, in the decathlon. 1.00

00:17:32.000 Was it decathlon? 1.00

00:17:33.000 It was, right?

00:17:34.000 Yeah.

00:17:34.000 I mean, he was on the cover of Wheaties.

00:17:36.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.99

00:17:36.000 I mean, he was a fucking US superstar athlete. 0.99

00:17:41.000 And then no attention after that. 0.99

00:17:43.000 He was the whipping boy of the Kardashians on their TV show.

00:17:46.000 They mocked him. 1.00

00:17:47.000 It's like, here's this one person with fucking talent in your whole house. 0.99

00:17:50.000 Well, Rob too. 0.99

00:17:50.000 Don't they mock Rob a bit? 0.99

00:17:52.000 Yeah, because he's fat. 0.84

00:17:53.000 But then they go right to... 0.73

00:17:56.000 That he becomes a woman and now he is the toast of the town. 1.00

00:18:00.000 He wins woman of the fucking year. 1.00

00:18:03.000 He's a woman for six months and he wins woman of the year. 1.00

00:18:06.000 He wins ESPN athlete of the year. 0.99

00:18:08.000 He hasn't been an athlete in fucking decades since Nixon was president, right? 0.98

00:18:13.000 Or Carter. 0.99

00:18:13.000 Who was it? 0.99

00:18:14.000 Either way.

00:18:16.000 This is madness.

00:18:17.000 We're not treating this in a balanced way.

00:18:21.000 We are rewarding people.

00:18:25.000 Because people are so ready to proclaim their progressiveness and so excited about it that they...

00:18:37.000 Instead of treating them as an equal, they go completely the other way.

00:18:44.000 So they're definitely not prejudiced, they're definitely not discriminating against them, but they're absolutely inflating what this person is.

00:18:55.000 And they're making it a big giant deal that they're trans.

00:18:59.000 Like it's great to support people.

00:19:01.000 I would like to live in a world where there's no racism at all.

00:19:05.000 So you could mock everyone equally.

00:19:07.000 Like, this is my big problem with real racism. 0.98

00:19:10.000 There's a lot of dummies in every race. 1.00

00:19:13.000 But you gotta be real careful picking on some dummies. 0.99

00:19:16.000 Like, especially if you're a white male. 0.99

00:19:18.000 Straight white male. 0.99

00:19:20.000 Oppressor. 1.00

00:19:21.000 You guys are the devil nowadays. 1.00

00:19:23.000 The devil! 1.00

00:19:24.000 Especially if you look like me. 0.99

00:19:25.000 I mean, I look like the devil.

00:19:26.000 So this is a real problem with, like, looking at things in a balanced perspective, because you're not allowed to.

00:19:33.000 You're not allowed to.

00:19:34.000 Like, even what you said earlier, you said gender dysphoria.

00:19:37.000 You know, that's considered transphobic.

00:19:40.000 Yeah, you can't even say that anymore, even though that is a legitimate medical condition.

00:19:44.000 Yes.

00:19:44.000 Because some people see it as you pathologizing being the way someone feels, I guess.

00:19:51.000 But in my mind, I don't think the issue is the pathology.

00:19:54.000 I think it's fine to acknowledge there are certain things.

00:19:56.000 Like any medical condition that causes you distress and impairment, that's the definition of a psychiatric diagnosis.

00:20:03.000 So you should be able to recognize that it's not a bad thing.

00:20:06.000 I think the bad thing is the stigma that comes along with having a mental disorder.

00:20:10.000 So that's what should be fought.

00:20:11.000 It's the stigma aspect, not calling something a mental disorder.

00:20:14.000 If someone's really suffering, that's not a good thing.

00:20:18.000 No, no, it's not a good thing.

00:20:19.000 And also the denial of these conditions and the denial of the science behind these conditions.

00:20:25.000 This is the issue with progressive people today, is that there's certain things where they embrace science and certain things where they deny it.

00:20:32.000 And in gender, gender in particular, seems to be so hotly contested.

00:20:37.000 And I don't know when this happened.

00:20:39.000 It seems to have happened right in front of our face, like it just came out of the ground, like a plant that was growing in the cracks.

00:20:46.000 And now it's too late.

00:20:47.000 You try to stomp it out and it won't go away.

00:20:49.000 It's weird.

00:20:49.000 I'm wondering.

00:20:50.000 I'm wondering where the...

00:20:52.000 I didn't see this coming.

00:20:54.000 And it's fascinating to see.

00:20:57.000 Yeah.

00:20:57.000 I think feminism is part of it.

00:20:59.000 The mainstream aspect of...

00:21:01.000 This really far-left feminism. 0.77

00:21:03.000 I used to call myself a feminist. 0.98

00:21:04.000 I don't anymore just because the things that people used to say feminism stood for like hating men, being, I don't know, just... 1.00

00:21:12.000 But they don't say that.

00:21:14.000 Well, some of them do.

00:21:15.000 Do they say that?

00:21:16.000 They say they hate men. 0.67

00:21:17.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

00:21:17.000 I have friends who say, male friends who say to me, you know, my female friends said that men are trash. 1.00

00:21:21.000 Is that normal? 0.99

00:21:23.000 Well, there's a woman that I know that's a feminist that has on her Twitter account, it says, trust no man. 1.00

00:21:30.000 Like, just openly proclaiming that.

00:21:32.000 Yeah.

00:21:33.000 Well, if you're straight, good luck. 0.91

00:21:35.000 Good luck with your life.

00:21:37.000 If you're saying, trust no man.

00:21:39.000 But imagine if you said about women. 0.98

00:21:40.000 That would be a terrible thing.

00:21:42.000 Yeah, that would be awful as well. 0.96

00:21:43.000 Yeah, you'd be a misogynist. 0.76

00:21:45.000 It's acceptable to hate on men now.

00:21:47.000 Well, nobody criticizes misandry, you know?

00:21:49.000 It's not something that gets brought up.

00:21:53.000 I've never even said that word before.

00:21:54.000 I've only written it and said it.

00:21:56.000 Or written it and heard it.

00:21:58.000 I mean, I get it.

00:21:59.000 I think feminism at the core had some good aspects in the beginning, but it's just gone off the rails more recently. 0.99

00:22:05.000 Well, equality has great aspects.

00:22:08.000 But I think the problem with any...

00:22:12.000 White power is obviously awful, right? 1.00

00:22:15.000 You say white power. 0.99

00:22:16.000 Well, what you mean is you're racist against other races. 0.99

00:22:19.000 You're into white people. 0.96

00:22:21.000 But brown power's okay. 0.80

00:22:23.000 Brown pride's okay, right? 0.87

00:22:26.000 Well, nowadays they see it that way, yeah.

00:22:28.000 Male pride is not good. 0.95

00:22:30.000 Not okay.

00:22:31.000 But girl pride is fine.

00:22:32.000 Girl power's okay.

00:22:33.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:22:34.000 It's fucking weird because you're generalizing. 1.00

00:22:39.000 You're lumping yourself into a group of people just because you all have vaginas. 1.00

00:22:42.000 And the thing is, women, we don't all think the same. 0.99

00:22:45.000 But the minute you, as a woman, say something that goes against girl power, they will descend on you. 1.00

00:22:50.000 Yes, I've seen that too.

00:22:52.000 Well, it's like you're threatening the collective agreed-upon narrative.

00:22:56.000 Yeah.

00:22:57.000 And you are...

00:22:58.000 It's like... 1.00

00:22:59.000 Like the way girls treat sluts. 1.00

00:23:01.000 Girls get very mad if a girl just decides to have sex with as many people as she wants. 1.00

00:23:08.000 Because then you're fucking up this whole economy of controlling the narrative of when women decide to or not decide. 0.96

00:23:16.000 The value of sex goes down that way too. 0.88

00:23:18.000 Yes.

00:23:18.000 Which is why prostitution is illegal.

00:23:20.000 Yeah.

00:23:21.000 I see both sides.

00:23:22.000 I see some women, which I find interesting because I think it's confusing for young women now who are starting to date and they think, I don't really want to have casual sex, but I'm being told that's what I should do.

00:23:31.000 Is that what they're being told?

00:23:32.000 I think so.

00:23:33.000 By who?

00:23:34.000 By the media.

00:23:35.000 More like it's empowering to go out and sleep with as many people as you want and to be like a man.

00:23:39.000 Like if you look at college campuses and how there is quite a bit of casual sex going on and I don't think that's for everyone.

00:23:46.000 I think from an evolutionary perspective too, women don't like that as much. 1.00

00:23:50.000 I was talking to a friend of mine today about this, who's in the military.

00:23:55.000 And he was saying what's crazy about certain branches of the military is you have like a hundred men to one woman. 0.99

00:24:03.000 And this one woman, especially if they're deployed, and they have the pick of the litter, and they'll just fuck a gang of dudes. 1.00

00:24:13.000 At the same time. 0.99

00:24:14.000 I've never thought about it that way before.

00:24:17.000 But he was like, you know, well, everybody just sort of agrees that nobody has this one girl.

00:24:22.000 Like, that nobody is going to own her. 0.95

00:24:25.000 And that, you know, she can have sex with as many guys as she wants. 1.00

00:24:28.000 So, like, what he was saying is, like, at least in his experience, that the whole dynamic of male-female relationships shift.

00:24:36.000 And these girls can basically date as many of these guys as she wants. 1.00

00:24:41.000 It's kind of interesting.

00:24:42.000 And they don't shame her for that.

00:24:44.000 Well, they can't because there's only one.

00:24:46.000 It's like they don't want her to get angry at them.

00:24:49.000 True.

00:24:49.000 It's like I didn't talk to him about it a lot.

00:24:51.000 We only spoke about it for like 10 minutes.

00:24:52.000 But I was like, that's kind of crazy.

00:24:54.000 I never even thought about that dynamic.

00:24:57.000 That's sort of a scenario where there's 100 men and one chick.

00:25:00.000 That's a lot of men.

00:25:01.000 That's a lot of men.

00:25:02.000 Good luck with all that.

00:25:03.000 You'd get sore.

00:25:04.000 And you'd be, like, annoyed.

00:25:06.000 Like, can you leave me alone?

00:25:08.000 I need to go to sleep.

00:25:09.000 How much time does she have, you know? 0.96

00:25:10.000 How much time does she have?

00:25:12.000 Yeah.

00:25:12.000 Especially if you're in the military.

00:25:13.000 You've got tasks.

00:25:15.000 Yeah.

00:25:15.000 There's things you need to do.

00:25:16.000 You'd be tired.

00:25:17.000 Yeah, but the dynamics shift according to what is available and who's there and what kind of a culture you live in.

00:25:28.000 People adapt or very malleable to different climates and different cultures and the way people treat sex and don't treat sex.

00:25:37.000 I think what happens is people tend to react very aggressively or very strongly when someone is Doing something that is different than the way they're doing things.

00:25:51.000 Because this would possibly indicate that there's another way, or maybe their way is wrong.

00:25:56.000 Especially when it comes to sex, people get very strange.

00:26:00.000 Yeah, they do.

00:26:01.000 When people find out that people are in open relationships.

00:26:03.000 I have a good friend of mine who's in an open relationship. 1.00

00:26:06.000 And it's so fascinating to watch all the people, like, you let guys fuck your girlfriend, bro? 0.99

00:26:12.000 And he has to sort of discuss it. 0.99

00:26:13.000 Yes, it's not comfortable for me.

00:26:16.000 I wish I enjoyed it.

00:26:17.000 I don't enjoy it.

00:26:18.000 So why do they have an open relationship?

00:26:20.000 I don't know.

00:26:21.000 I mean, you have to talk to him about it.

00:26:22.000 I mean, he's got a bunch of different answers. 1.00

00:26:24.000 I think the main answer is he wants to fuck other people, and she wants to fuck other people, and so they just decide to do it that way. 0.99

00:26:30.000 And they were together in a monogamous relationship for a while. 1.00

00:26:33.000 But I think...

00:26:35.000 If I'm correct, I think they've been in an open relationship longer than they were in a monogamous relationship.

00:26:40.000 How long were they monogamous for?

00:26:41.000 I would have to ask him.

00:26:43.000 I think more than a year.

00:26:45.000 Maybe two years or something like that.

00:26:46.000 And then it's been like four years of open.

00:26:48.000 Okay, wow.

00:26:49.000 Yeah, I mean, open relationships are actually pretty common.

00:26:52.000 Consensual non-monogamy, there's one study that showed one in five Americans have actually tried it, so it's pretty common.

00:26:57.000 Me personally, I'm monogamous, but I think, you know, people should do what they want to do if it's consensual.

00:27:02.000 I think, you know, obviously, having been a sex researcher and now someone who writes about sex research for a living, I'm very sex positive, and I think a lot of the problems that we see and a lot of the suffering and distress and issues that people have In their lives could be solved if our world was more sex-positive.

00:27:19.000 We could just talk about sex like anything else.

00:27:21.000 Right.

00:27:21.000 Like, the shame of it is the real problem.

00:27:24.000 And this is what I'm saying, that people, when you're living a life that's different than the way they're living their life, people get very aggressive about it.

00:27:33.000 Same way, I mean, sober people.

00:27:58.000 So you must be doing something wrong.

00:28:00.000 Oh, you need alcohol to get by?

00:28:02.000 Is that what you need?

00:28:03.000 Like, oh, you don't need that drink.

00:28:05.000 But I want it.

00:28:06.000 Can I just have it?

00:28:07.000 If I have a glass of wine, I get happy.

00:28:09.000 Who's getting hurt here?

00:28:10.000 I'm like, you're going to start doing heroin.

00:28:12.000 Then you're going to wind up in the gutter.

00:28:14.000 I never have.

00:28:15.000 Never been on heroin.

00:28:16.000 Never been in the gutter.

00:28:17.000 Been alive for a while.

00:28:19.000 Nothing's happened.

00:28:20.000 It could be a bit of projection, too.

00:28:21.000 For sure.

00:28:22.000 For someone who's dealt with substance issues, the fear that it could be easy for someone else to fall down the same hole.

00:28:28.000 Right.

00:28:28.000 But it's this thing that people living a different way is somehow or another unacceptable and threatening to their perceptions of what you should be doing with your life.

00:28:41.000 Yeah.

00:28:42.000 Yeah.

00:28:45.000 This is very unrelated to the whole...

00:28:47.000 But it's not.

00:28:49.000 When it comes to gender, I think there's just this thing that people want things to be more easily explained than they are.

00:29:00.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:29:02.000 I could see that.

00:29:03.000 Because it takes a lot of work to actually go.

00:29:04.000 So people who say that gender is a social construct.

00:29:07.000 That's a good one.

00:29:08.000 Sounds very nice.

00:29:09.000 I love saying that.

00:29:10.000 It's not true.

00:29:12.000 But it's infuriating because it's everywhere now.

00:29:14.000 Like this is what children are being taught in school up in Canada.

00:29:18.000 That's what they're being taught in their curriculum.

00:29:19.000 And there's absolutely no truth to it at all.

00:29:22.000 But, I mean, if you read the scientific studies, you cannot come away from them saying gender is a social construct.

00:29:30.000 What's the argument for it?

00:29:31.000 If you were arguing for it?

00:29:35.000 I guess the idea is that women should be equal, and obviously as a woman I believe that.

00:29:41.000 And so any sort of subjugation of women must somehow be imposed by society. 1.00

00:29:46.000 Because if we acknowledge that women are different biologically in any way, that's going to be used as justification why they don't deserve to be treated the same as men, or they're not as capable as men. 0.99

00:29:55.000 But why is different subjugation?

00:29:57.000 And why is different incapable?

00:29:58.000 Why is different inferior?

00:30:00.000 I guess because there has been a history of there being sexism.

00:30:02.000 And say, so with the whole Google memo thing...

00:30:05.000 And this idea that women are biologically, we are different, not to say we're not as capable, but if there are any sort of biological correlates to what women find interesting, could that be extrapolated to capability, extrapolated to women should go back to the kitchen, 0.95

00:30:21.000 women aren't good at math, things like that. 1.00

00:30:23.000 I mean, I get why people don't like biological explanations for things.

00:30:29.000 Like you said, I think it's just a lot easier.

00:30:31.000 It's a lazy way to just dismiss the whole thing and say, you know, we don't need to think about it.

00:30:35.000 Nothing to see here.

00:30:36.000 Yeah, nothing to see here.

00:30:38.000 But it's just – it's clearly not true in terms of the scientific research.

00:30:43.000 So there has to be some cognitive dissonance in order to accept that and to preach it and to say it, and everybody has to agree upon it, which is one of the reasons why I think – Any statements contrary to that get aggressively attacked.

00:31:00.000 And this is part of the reason why these ideas are so supercharged. 0.94

00:31:05.000 It's that there's an understanding that it's horseshit. 0.99

00:31:10.000 And so when someone challenges it and says it's horseshit, you've been living your whole life with this horseshit. 0.99

00:31:15.000 It's almost like a religious thing. 0.98

00:31:17.000 Yeah.

00:31:18.000 Well, okay, I think some people know what the truth is and they actively lie because they think they're doing something good for women.

00:31:24.000 So they'll say gender is a social construct even though they know it's biological.

00:31:27.000 And I think people who are younger maybe going through school now are being taught this actually don't know the difference and actually believe it.

00:31:34.000 But why would they aggressively attack the scientific research that's contrary to that claim then?

00:31:42.000 You mean the people who don't know any better?

00:31:44.000 Yeah.

00:31:44.000 They actually believe that gender is a social construct and these scientists are just sexist and misogynistic and want to keep women down.

00:31:50.000 But I can get that if you didn't research it, if you didn't look into it.

00:31:54.000 But once you start looking into it, you go, oh, well, this is weird.

00:31:56.000 Like, there's clearly...

00:31:59.000 Do you think people actually look into it though?

00:32:01.000 I don't think they do.

00:32:02.000 The sense I get is they find someone or some journalist who has some sort of decent sounding criticism of the literature and they just parrot that.

00:32:11.000 I don't think they actually go and look at the studies.

00:32:14.000 Well, I think there's definitely something to that, and I think there's something to this problem that human beings have, where they have an idea, and that idea becomes part of their identity.

00:32:25.000 And then they start arguing for that idea, and any argument against that idea is an argument against them as a person, because they're trying to win.

00:32:34.000 They're not necessarily looking at things in an objective way where they're detached from the idea and studying it as a thing.

00:32:43.000 Instead, they're arguing to try to win.

00:32:45.000 I think that is a giant problem with ideas.

00:32:49.000 Yeah, because they're invested in it.

00:32:50.000 Yes.

00:32:51.000 And it becomes even more of a problem when it gets tribal, when these ideas are attached, like climate change, clearly attached in denial to the right in support to the left.

00:33:03.000 It's this very strange tribal thing.

00:33:06.000 And that also happens with gender.

00:33:09.000 If you are in support of women's rights and you are in support of trans rights and LBGTQ and all that jazz, you're almost 100% going to be on the left. 0.67

00:33:21.000 It's just one of those tribal things.

00:33:23.000 If you're pro-choice, you're almost always going to be on the left.

00:33:26.000 If you're not, you find yourself in that...

00:33:28.000 Which one was it?

00:33:29.000 Was it Tammy Lauren?

00:33:30.000 I get her confused with that Lauren Southern girl.

00:33:32.000 Oh, Tommy Lahren.

00:33:33.000 Those girls are interchangeable in some strange way. 0.72

00:33:36.000 The hot Republicans.

00:33:38.000 Tommy Lahren, yeah.

00:33:39.000 Tommy Lahren.

00:33:40.000 She's pro-choice.

00:33:41.000 Right.

00:33:42.000 She got attacked.

00:33:43.000 Can't be.

00:33:44.000 Can't be.

00:33:44.000 You want to be on this team.

00:33:45.000 You want to be on the mean white girl team. 1.00

00:33:48.000 You can't be pro-choice.

00:33:49.000 You gotta be pro-life!

00:33:52.000 Yeah.

00:33:52.000 What about life?

00:33:53.000 What about the babies?

00:33:54.000 Yeah.

00:33:54.000 Support the baby.

00:33:55.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:33:55.000 It's like some ideas get locked into ideologies.

00:33:59.000 They get locked into these tribal ideologies.

00:34:02.000 And gender is most certainly one of those.

00:34:05.000 Well, because people don't want to be without a political home.

00:34:08.000 Right.

00:34:08.000 That's a very good way of putting it.

00:34:09.000 Because if you do say someone like Tommy who's...

00:34:14.000 Why do I call her Tammy? 1.00

00:34:15.000 Because I'm an asshole? 1.00

00:34:17.000 There she is. 1.00

00:34:18.000 Oh, was she in trouble?

00:34:19.000 Tommy Lauren will star in pro-life film.

00:34:22.000 After the blaze fired her for being pro-choice.

00:34:26.000 What?

00:34:27.000 So if you're a pro-choice conservative or if you're a pro-biology liberal, you know, you kind of find yourself in a weird in-between. 0.98

00:34:33.000 So she's just fucking going the other way? 1.00

00:34:36.000 She's going the other way? 0.99

00:34:37.000 She's gonna start a film? 0.99

00:34:38.000 What's a pro-life film?

00:34:40.000 It's like an ABC after-school special?

00:34:43.000 Don't have an abortion. 0.61

00:34:44.000 Have your baby.

00:34:47.000 Yeah.

00:34:48.000 It's weird.

00:34:50.000 Well, she's got to get her ground back. 0.99

00:34:51.000 She's got kicked off the team a little bit.

00:34:53.000 It's a biopic on the Rovers Wade case starring Stacey Dash.

00:34:56.000 Oh.

00:34:57.000 So maybe she's playing a bad person in that movie.

00:35:01.000 That just made it even more interesting.

00:35:08.000 Strange.

00:35:08.000 I wonder how many of those things are just distractions.

00:35:12.000 It's so weird.

00:35:15.000 People are so weird with their tribal identities.

00:35:19.000 And I love when they go back and forth and shift from one side to the other.

00:35:25.000 I love it when they're like, well, I'm a former conservative, seen the light.

00:35:29.000 Or, you know, I used to be a liberal until the party lost me.

00:35:32.000 I love that.

00:35:33.000 And then they go hardcore on the other side.

00:35:35.000 It's weird because then everything shifts.

00:35:37.000 It's not just a couple of views.

00:35:38.000 It's everything to be in alignment with the other side.

00:35:40.000 Yeah, they join a church.

00:35:43.000 Stop doing drugs.

00:35:45.000 Yeah, it's fascinating.

00:35:46.000 It's fascinating.

00:35:47.000 As a neuroscientist, when something like the Google memo comes out, you are also a woman.

00:35:55.000 And you are also a woman who...

00:35:57.000 I'm also a person of color.

00:35:59.000 Sort of.

00:35:59.000 Are you?

00:36:00.000 How's that work?

00:36:01.000 You're lighter than me.

00:36:02.000 Am I? Yeah.

00:36:03.000 Well, you're a different color.

00:36:05.000 I mean, am I a person of color?

00:36:06.000 I think you've seen more sun maybe than I have.

00:36:08.000 Well, I don't know.

00:36:09.000 You can be an honorary person of color.

00:36:11.000 I'll give you that badge.

00:36:12.000 But I'm Sicilian.

00:36:13.000 So, yeah, you are kind of... 0.99

00:36:15.000 Yeah, somebody in my background got fucked by somebody who was darker, for sure. 0.99

00:36:21.000 But I don't know how that works. 0.98

00:36:22.000 Because if I was Cuban, I would look exactly the same and I definitely could be a person of color.

00:36:28.000 Yeah. 0.96

00:36:29.000 I mean, I think it's ridiculous. 0.89

00:36:30.000 I can't stand that term for the record, person of color. 0.89

00:36:32.000 Because those of us who are not white, we don't all think the same.

00:36:35.000 But we all get lumped in as having some sort of...

00:36:38.000 Well, I had a conversation with a friend of mine about that who's Mexican.

00:36:41.000 He was talking about Latinos.

00:36:42.000 And I go, well, you do know that...

00:36:45.000 Italian was one of the original Latin languages.

00:36:48.000 Like, I am Latino, if you look at it that way.

00:36:51.000 Like, what is Latino?

00:36:52.000 Yeah.

00:36:53.000 Like, you're just thinking it was only Spanish?

00:36:54.000 That's not really the technical definition of it.

00:36:57.000 Yeah.

00:36:57.000 Isn't Latino...

00:36:58.000 I mean, am I correct about that?

00:36:59.000 I mean, doesn't it emanate from a Latin language?

00:37:02.000 I think so.

00:37:02.000 I think so, too.

00:37:03.000 Yeah.

00:37:04.000 But it's just, like, Italians have been so ingrained in our culture.

00:37:06.000 They came over so long ago that, like, you know, my grandparents came here in the 20s.

00:37:11.000 So that's 100 years ago, almost.

00:37:14.000 So it doesn't count anymore.

00:37:15.000 It doesn't count anymore.

00:37:15.000 You're not really discriminated against anymore.

00:37:17.000 Mm-hmm.

00:37:18.000 It's like Jews. 1.00

00:37:20.000 What's interesting is if you follow boxing history, and I know you're a martial artist, if you follow boxing history, the oppressed early immigrants are almost always the best boxers at the time. 0.87

00:37:32.000 And for a while, there was a lot of Jewish boxers. 0.56

00:37:35.000 Yeah.

00:37:35.000 A lot of Italian boxers, of course, you know, Rocky Graziano and Rocky Marciano and all these Italian.

00:37:40.000 And then it became Cubans and Puerto Ricans.

00:37:44.000 And then it became, well, there was always blacks as well. 0.83

00:37:47.000 But this like the immigrants in particular, Irish, like a lot of Irish immigrants that early on, they were thought of as like being some of the lowliest of the low.

00:37:56.000 And now Irish people are 100% white. 0.81

00:37:58.000 Like no one even thinks about it.

00:38:00.000 Yeah.

00:38:00.000 Of course they're white, but I mean, they're, they're just American.

00:38:03.000 That's going to be Asian soon. 1.00

00:38:05.000 We're going to be 100% white, basically.

00:38:07.000 Well, not if Harvard has anything to do with it.

00:38:09.000 No, true.

00:38:10.000 They're trying to kick you guys out.

00:38:11.000 What is it about not trying to kick you guys out, but that is one of the weirder discriminations that is somehow or another slipped under the radar, that they're making it more difficult for Asians to get into Ivy League universities because you guys do so well.

00:38:24.000 Yeah, I mean, it's racism. 0.99

00:38:27.000 It's fucking 100% racism. 0.99

00:38:29.000 It's racism. 0.99

00:38:30.000 And I think some of these people who are getting pats on the back for being progressive about being diverse, I think they just don't like us.

00:38:36.000 And now they have a politically acceptable way to do it.

00:38:40.000 But why is that?

00:38:41.000 Why would they not like Asians? 1.00

00:38:42.000 Well, some people just don't. 0.97

00:38:43.000 Some people are racist.

00:38:44.000 But is it that, or is it that you guys do too well?

00:38:48.000 Well, that's the thing.

00:38:49.000 I mean, we throw that whole narrative into question, this idea that if you're not white, you can't be doing well in life.

00:38:56.000 You can't pull yourself up and get on with things.

00:38:59.000 Yeah, well, that was the argument against the Charles Murray book.

00:39:03.000 What was that book?

00:39:04.000 The Bell Curve.

00:39:04.000 Yes.

00:39:05.000 One of the problems with that book is people were showing the differences in IQ by, you know, as it varies across different geographical segments and across races.

00:39:18.000 And if anything, that book is really like a testament to the master race of Asians. 0.99

00:39:26.000 But for real, right?

00:39:27.000 We do okay.

00:39:29.000 But genetically, Asian people seem to be superior when it comes to IQ, according to that book.

00:39:36.000 I think we just work really hard, and our culture puts a lot of emphasis on education.

00:39:42.000 Did you read The Talent Code?

00:39:44.000 No, I haven't.

00:39:44.000 It's a really interesting book.

00:39:46.000 I'm finishing it up right now.

00:39:47.000 But one of the things about it is it sort of dismisses the idea of talent.

00:39:51.000 And it shows, it goes into depth about all the, not dismisses it, but shows that it's not some magic gift that's bestowed upon people.

00:40:00.000 But what it is, is it shows all the pathways that lead to the skill developments that we consider talent.

00:40:07.000 And discipline and hard work, in particular, discipline being a culturally enforced thing, which it is with many Asians. 0.99

00:40:16.000 I often talk about my friend Junkzik, who when I was doing Taekwondo, he was on the US team while he was also in his residency in medical school. 0.99

00:40:26.000 This guy was a fucking animal. 0.98

00:40:29.000 I never met anybody in my life who worked as hard as him. 1.00

00:40:32.000 He always looked exhausted.

00:40:33.000 This is his face. 1.00

00:40:35.000 He just was always tired, but then would go to work like a fucking savage. 0.98

00:40:39.000 Was in between studying for his, you know, in the middle of medical school, and he would put his backpack on, filled with books, and run the stairs at the university. 1.00

00:40:51.000 He's fucking crazy. 0.99

00:40:53.000 And I would talk to him about it, you know, because my parents were not like that. 1.00

00:40:58.000 And his parents were like... 0.99

00:40:59.000 My parents were hippies and they were like, do whatever the fuck you want. 0.99

00:41:03.000 We don't care. 1.00

00:41:04.000 And his parents are like, you must be a doctor!

00:41:07.000 And he was like telling me about the kind of discipline that he grew up with.

00:41:11.000 And that culturally enforced discipline leads many, many, many, many, many people to succeed.

00:41:17.000 Whereas the sort of latchkey kids that I grew up with, there was no culturally enforced discipline.

00:41:25.000 You either developed it on your own, you pursued something that you enjoyed and figured out how to become disciplined, or you just weren't.

00:41:32.000 But this thing that's in Asian cultures is what's propelling them forward.

00:41:39.000 If you subscribe to Yeah.

00:41:46.000 Yeah.

00:41:51.000 Yeah.

00:42:03.000 Will you explain the lawsuit for people that don't know what we're talking about?

00:42:05.000 Okay, so it turns out that for decades now, Harvard has been discriminating against Asians and requiring them to have higher SAT scores than people of other ethnic backgrounds in order to get the same chance of admission.

00:42:17.000 And then more recently, it's been shown that, okay, so Asians do well with SAT scores. 0.69

00:42:22.000 They do well with extracurricular activities.

00:42:24.000 So the only way that admissions committees can actually penalize them is through rating their personality.

00:42:30.000 So seeing them as, you know, less likable, things like that, because they're subjective.

00:42:34.000 And, you know, I find it amazing that very few liberal outlets have covered this.

00:42:39.000 The New York Times has been one.

00:42:41.000 But outside of that, it's been very few.

00:42:43.000 And it's really disappointing.

00:42:45.000 I mean, I wrote about this for the Globe and Mail, and I was amazed no one had heard about this story at all.

00:42:51.000 Well, not only that, even when it was covered in the New York Times, everybody was like, hmm, okay.

00:42:55.000 Yeah, let's go on with our day.

00:42:57.000 It's gone.

00:42:57.000 Yeah.

00:42:58.000 Like, in and out.

00:42:58.000 Yeah.

00:42:59.000 Whereas if it was about any other subject or any other...

00:43:03.000 Race or gender that's being discriminated against.

00:43:06.000 I mean, if it was discrimination against black people in the same, like, systematic way or systemic way, it would be outrageous. 0.79

00:43:14.000 People would go crazy. 0.72

00:43:15.000 And even more insane that you're doing it to the most successful people.

00:43:22.000 Yeah.

00:43:23.000 The most successful in terms of academics, because that's the problem, right?

00:43:26.000 Yeah.

00:43:27.000 I mean, it's not helping society either.

00:43:29.000 I mean, if I were not Asian, I would be saying the same thing. 1.00

00:43:31.000 I don't think it makes sense to take people who are doing well and hold them back if you want your society to do well.

00:43:37.000 I think the solution would be to help people who are not doing as well.

00:43:40.000 Don't penalize the people who are doing well.

00:43:42.000 Well, I think there's a fear of Asians.

00:43:45.000 I'm not bullshitting.

00:43:47.000 I've been obsessed with this company Huawei recently.

00:43:52.000 And I got obsessed with them for two reasons.

00:43:55.000 One, because I read an article about the superiority of the cell phones that they're producing that are not being accepted in America.

00:44:06.000 And so then I started doing...

00:44:08.000 I'm kind of a dork when it comes to cell phones and technology.

00:44:11.000 I'm very fascinated by them.

00:44:12.000 So I read a lot of articles about Huawei phones. 0.98

00:44:15.000 And they have these fucking insane Leica cameras with 40 megapixel lenses. 0.91

00:44:21.000 Three lenses on the front and 20-plus megapixel selfie cameras and really intense technology. 0.97

00:44:29.000 Much higher gigabytes.

00:44:31.000 I think they have 500-gigabyte storage capacity.

00:44:36.000 4,000 milliamp batteries.

00:44:39.000 They're a superior battery.

00:44:40.000 It's a superior phone.

00:44:41.000 And I'm looking, I'm like, wow, this is kind of crazy.

00:44:43.000 And then it turns out you can't sell them in the United States.

00:44:46.000 And the federal government's blocked these carriers from having them.

00:44:51.000 And they're saying it's because the Chinese government is involved in stealing information and hacking and all this different stuff.

00:45:00.000 I'm like, okay.

00:45:01.000 Alright, maybe, but it's kind of fucking weird that you can't figure out whether or not a phone is being used to, like, how are these hackers, how are these, like, super genius people who program phones, you can't, like, look at one of those phones and figure out what it's doing?

00:45:16.000 Is it, like, doing some magic, or somehow or another it's stealing people's information and there's no mechanism that you can detect?

00:45:22.000 Well, do you think there's another reason why they're not letting them in?

00:45:25.000 What I'm worried about is that they're scared that these companies, which are fanatical, maniacal in their aggressive pursuit of dominance in the cell phone markets and technology in general, are going to take over.

00:45:40.000 They're going to squash all these American companies.

00:45:44.000 This is my own personal speculation, but I'm looking at this, I'm like, how much legitimacy is in that?

00:45:51.000 Because they're right now, worldwide, I believe they're the number three cell phone manufacturer.

00:45:57.000 I think it's Samsung, Apple, and then Huawei.

00:45:59.000 But you can't buy Huawei phones in America.

00:46:02.000 And I'm wondering.

00:46:04.000 We're scared of the Chinese taking over. 1.00

00:46:06.000 Are you gonna try and get one of these phones anyway?

00:46:09.000 I did try to get one, but what I found out is they're not set up for the US market.

00:46:15.000 They're GSM phones, and I'm on a CDMA network, but the GSM phones...

00:46:21.000 They're using different bands.

00:46:22.000 They're not using all the same bands.

00:46:24.000 Like when you buy a phone from China, even if it's for the UK, they don't use... 0.75

00:46:31.000 There's some places where you would sacrifice coverage.

00:46:34.000 Say if you bought a...

00:46:35.000 And if you're a cell phone genius out there and you listen to me butcher this, I'm so sorry.

00:46:40.000 But this is all I got.

00:46:41.000 What's up?

00:46:42.000 Could you just use it with Wi-Fi only and not connect it to the network? 0.98

00:46:45.000 Why the fuck would you do that? 0.95

00:46:45.000 Because you're using Wi-Fi almost everywhere you are. 0.95

00:46:47.000 But I'm talking about it as a phone.

00:46:48.000 I know, but...

00:46:48.000 Where's Wi-Fi?

00:46:49.000 You're driving your phone?

00:46:50.000 Everywhere.

00:46:50.000 You're getting Wi-Fi when you're driving your car?

00:46:52.000 How are you doing that?

00:46:52.000 Time Warner has Wi-Fi all over LA. They have Wi-Fi?

00:46:55.000 In the air?

00:46:55.000 I'm probably tracking you, but yeah, definitely.

00:46:57.000 100%.

00:46:58.000 Okay, so if you're driving in your car, you could be on Wi-Fi and have your cell phone service shut off?

00:47:03.000 Cars also now have them built into their thing, too.

00:47:06.000 Right, but those are cellular.

00:47:08.000 They're cellular Wi-Fi.

00:47:09.000 There's just a question.

00:47:10.000 Couldn't you also?

00:47:11.000 But that's a cellular Wi-Fi.

00:47:12.000 So you'd have to have a cellular account.

00:47:14.000 So, like, who would be your cellular provider?

00:47:16.000 Then you're just connecting your phone to a Wi-Fi thing and you're...

00:47:18.000 Right, that's a different thing, right?

00:47:19.000 Right.

00:47:21.000 Right, so whatever that is would be a local thing. 0.99

00:47:24.000 But you'd have to be right next to your fucking car to use your phone. 1.00

00:47:27.000 That's stupid. 1.00

00:47:28.000 What I'm saying is the problem with the... 1.00

00:47:30.000 This is an article that I read that's explaining the problem.

00:47:33.000 I think it was one of those tech sites.

00:47:36.000 But it was saying that in certain places with limited coverage, you probably would have no coverage with one of these phones.

00:47:41.000 Whereas it would work okay if you were in New York or in Los Angeles or Chicago or something like that.

00:47:47.000 But if you went to the boonies, if you have Verizon, you probably could be able to text your friends or get a phone call out, but you wouldn't be able to do it.

00:47:55.000 It would be a lot harder, yeah.

00:47:56.000 It's just not optimized for our networks.

00:47:58.000 Well, hopefully it'll change.

00:48:00.000 Or not.

00:48:01.000 They just keep squashing them.

00:48:03.000 But I wonder.

00:48:04.000 The problem is, I believe they think Huawei is connected with the communist government.

00:48:09.000 Oh, okay.

00:48:10.000 Yeah.

00:48:11.000 Yeah.

00:48:11.000 I don't want that.

00:48:12.000 They're completely integrated.

00:48:14.000 So it's...

00:48:15.000 I mean, the separation of business and government over there, it's very sketchy, right?

00:48:21.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:48:23.000 What the fuck do I know? 0.98

00:48:24.000 I just wonder if there's a fear of Asian success. 0.98

00:48:29.000 Yeah, I mean...

00:48:30.000 How could that be, though, if it's Samsung?

00:48:32.000 Samsung is everywhere.

00:48:34.000 I mean, they're going to come for everybody, so they're coming for us right now.

00:48:37.000 It's only a matter of time, you know?

00:48:38.000 Who's they?

00:48:39.000 The people who want equality of outcome for everyone.

00:48:42.000 Oh.

00:48:43.000 Who are those people?

00:48:45.000 The people who are really into identity politics.

00:48:48.000 I didn't really think that's what was holding back Huawei.

00:48:53.000 I thought it was the government.

00:48:54.000 No, I can see that.

00:48:54.000 The government was worried about them getting too much money and power.

00:48:57.000 Yeah, but I guess if you're asking me in terms of my view on things and my experience, that's where I would take it.

00:49:03.000 So, the Equality of Outcome people, the reason why they're trying to keep Asians or at least limit the number of Asians, but doesn't that have the opposite effect?

00:49:14.000 Doesn't that make Asians work even harder?

00:49:16.000 Yeah.

00:49:17.000 And, I mean, if you keep them out of Harvard, they're just going to go to Yale.

00:49:22.000 I think Caltech doesn't have numbers like that.

00:49:25.000 So, at Caltech, there are a lot of Asians there because they don't... 1.00

00:49:28.000 They don't discriminate.

00:49:29.000 Yeah.

00:49:29.000 So they just dominate.

00:49:31.000 So you could use Caltech as a Petri dish.

00:49:33.000 It could be like a control group.

00:49:34.000 For Asian dominance. 0.99

00:49:34.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:49:35.000 Hmm.

00:49:36.000 But what's wrong with that?

00:49:40.000 Discrimination?

00:49:41.000 No, no, no.

00:49:42.000 The other thing.

00:49:43.000 What's wrong with certain cultures dominating? 0.97

00:49:45.000 Yeah.

00:49:46.000 I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

00:49:48.000 If you're asking me in terms of what people see as a problem, I think because it looks as though other groups are not getting a fair chance.

00:49:59.000 It doesn't make people feel good.

00:50:02.000 Because it means that you're acknowledging at some level that some people are doing better than other people, and that makes some people uncomfortable.

00:50:08.000 Right.

00:50:09.000 It's the participation trophy world.

00:50:11.000 Yeah.

00:50:12.000 The equality of outcome world.

00:50:14.000 Yeah, that's exactly what it is, right?

00:50:15.000 But it's gone to a place where it becomes indefensible.

00:50:20.000 So instead of trying to raise up people whose scores are lower and give them an equal opportunity or take people from impoverished areas with poor education and give them more of a chance, which is what Affirmative action was supposed to be about.

00:50:36.000 Instead of that, you're doing it from the top down.

00:50:39.000 You're going, oh, no, no, no.

00:50:41.000 There's too many of these people that are doing good.

00:50:42.000 We're going to squash it.

00:50:43.000 We're going to limit their ability.

00:50:45.000 But how could they do that in good conscience?

00:50:48.000 That's what's crazy.

00:50:49.000 But doing it from that perspective, doing it like looking at a race that's super successful that is also a minority and saying too many of them.

00:51:01.000 Well, that's the thing.

00:51:02.000 I mean, I think these people do think they're doing something good.

00:51:06.000 They're doing it for the better of society and for these other groups.

00:51:09.000 I'd like to see that argument.

00:51:10.000 I'd like to see it too.

00:51:12.000 Have you ever talked to someone about it that's pro-discrimination against Asians?

00:51:15.000 I have.

00:51:16.000 After I wrote that column for the Globe and Mail, a number of people came out of the woodwork to tell me how wrong I was.

00:51:21.000 White? 0.92

00:51:21.000 Some Asians, too. 0.92

00:51:23.000 Really?

00:51:23.000 What did they say?

00:51:24.000 Well, to say, don't let yourself be used by the far right to justify taking down other groups.

00:51:32.000 Oh, that's an interesting way of looking at it.

00:51:33.000 Yeah.

00:51:34.000 So that, I mean, that's one way that you could look at it.

00:51:36.000 How is that way possible to look at it?

00:51:38.000 That doesn't even make any sense.

00:51:40.000 How would the far right scratch a hold of the superiority of Asians in academics?

00:51:48.000 Because there are other racial groups that they don't like.

00:51:51.000 Or I guess they dislike more than they dislike Asians. 0.92

00:51:53.000 So they'll use Asians as a way to justify discrimination against those other groups.

00:51:58.000 I don't really buy that. 1.00

00:52:01.000 That's a shit argument. 1.00

00:52:02.000 That's one argument I've heard. 1.00

00:52:03.000 That argument sucks. 0.99

00:52:04.000 I'd like to sit down with someone with that argument. 1.00

00:52:06.000 That's a stupid argument. 1.00

00:52:07.000 That argument doesn't work. 1.00

00:52:09.000 It doesn't work.

00:52:10.000 What I find the most sad is there are Asians who are totally fine and they say, I'm willing to give up my spot for someone else because I think diversity is important.

00:52:19.000 That's someone who needs friends.

00:52:21.000 You need friends so bad, you're willing to say that.

00:52:23.000 But that's a virtue signaling thing.

00:52:25.000 I hope so.

00:52:26.000 I hope it's virtue signaling.

00:52:27.000 It's not someone who actually thinks that way. 0.73

00:52:29.000 They could actually think that way, but the people who cut their balls off and killed themselves because they thought the comet was coming and the spaceship was behind it, they thought that too.

00:52:38.000 Yeah, people think all kinds of things.

00:52:40.000 They think all kinds of things.

00:52:41.000 Yeah, and that is...

00:52:43.000 One of the main reasons why I wanted to talk to you is that people do think all kinds of things.

00:52:49.000 I want to talk to neuroscientists and figure out what's happening here.

00:52:54.000 What is it?

00:52:55.000 Yeah.

00:52:56.000 You were saying something about the Google memo earlier, though.

00:52:58.000 Yes. 0.99

00:52:59.000 I mean, I had James on, and he's kind of fucked now. 0.99

00:53:02.000 He doesn't really have a home. 0.98

00:53:04.000 He doesn't have a place to go.

00:53:06.000 I mean, in terms of politically or in terms of having a job.

00:53:12.000 I mean, he's almost unhirable.

00:53:15.000 I don't know if he's employed now, but he's in this lawsuit with Google, and scientifically, he has every point in the world.

00:53:25.000 I just don't know if it's ever going to hold up in this climate.

00:53:28.000 Yeah.

00:53:28.000 So I actually got a chance to talk to James as part of, so there's a podcast, Wrong Speak, that I host with Jonathan Kay.

00:53:35.000 And our first episode was actually about James Damore and his saga and basically how, what I took away from that whole thing, I mean, it's been almost a year now.

00:53:44.000 It's amazing how the media could not get it right, and I feel that they intentionally smeared him.

00:53:50.000 It wasn't that people didn't understand the science, that they very intentionally said, we don't like this, we want to get clicks, or we want to basically sacrifice this man for our agenda.

00:54:01.000 I agree with you.

00:54:02.000 And I don't think it's just the media.

00:54:03.000 I think it was the CEO of, was it YouTube, that was saying that it was promoting harmful gender stereotypes?

00:54:10.000 I think it was the VP of Google put that statement out.

00:54:12.000 Yes.

00:54:13.000 But one of the women that ran YouTube was talking about it, too. 1.00

00:54:18.000 And the way she was describing it was as if he was talking about women being inferior.

00:54:22.000 And that's not what he said at all.

00:54:23.000 That's not what he said.

00:54:23.000 And not only that, they neglected to...

00:54:27.000 To promote the fact that it was at least a page and a half of that memo was about how to encourage women to be more active in tech. 1.00

00:54:36.000 This was not an anti-woman screed.

00:54:39.000 No.

00:54:40.000 And I mean, if you hear what he had to say when I spoke with him, he very much was for equality and very much was for men and women working together.

00:54:50.000 He's not a misogynist.

00:54:51.000 I think it's crazy that that's the narrative that continues to go on now.

00:54:55.000 Well, the problem is he actually cited the studies that showed why people choose different professions, why people gravitate towards different activities and different professions based on gender.

00:55:11.000 And these are actual studies.

00:55:13.000 So in citing those studies, he cited something that's contrary to this promoted narrative.

00:55:20.000 And that's where he was shut down.

00:55:23.000 Hence the title of your podcast, Wrong Speak.

00:55:25.000 He did wrong speak, right?

00:55:27.000 He did, yeah.

00:55:27.000 And the thing is, the most important aspect of the podcast is that the things that people are saying, there's some truth to it.

00:55:34.000 It's not just crazy loopy ideas, right?

00:55:37.000 There's truth to it, but for some reason we still can't say it.

00:55:41.000 And why is that? 0.90

00:55:42.000 I don't know why The problem with denial of any facts is that the people that are opposing you now have evidence that you're a loon, right? 0.99

00:55:55.000 Like, one of the problems with the left and this really radical, progressive behavior that's in denial of science is now the right gets to look at the left and go, look, these people are out of their fucking mind. 0.97

00:56:06.000 Why do you trust them about abortion? 0.99

00:56:08.000 Why do you trust them about this?

00:56:10.000 Why do you trust them about climate change?

00:56:12.000 Clearly, they're loons.

00:56:13.000 And this is just weird, toxic, tribal behavior.

00:56:20.000 Yeah, because I mean, how can you legitimately deny, like you're saying, men and women are different?

00:56:24.000 When you say that, people stop listening.

00:56:26.000 Right. 0.99

00:56:27.000 They do think you're a crazy person. 0.97

00:56:28.000 Yeah.

00:56:29.000 And they miss the larger point because there are some people who will look at that and say, okay, men and women are different.

00:56:34.000 That must mean women are not competent. 1.00

00:56:36.000 So instead of having this more nuanced argument or discussion about we can be different, but that doesn't mean women are incompetent. 1.00

00:56:42.000 They just simply say, you want to say that men and women are the same.

00:56:45.000 So we, you know, we're not even speaking at the same level in that case. 0.99

00:56:49.000 Well, it's so foolish. 0.91

00:56:54.000 There's clearly differences between men and women, and there's clearly differences inside genders. 0.98

00:57:01.000 I mean, there's human beings very widely and wildly.

00:57:04.000 And it's one of the more interesting things about us.

00:57:06.000 I think it's a good thing.

00:57:08.000 It's a fascinating thing.

00:57:11.000 The whole thing has got to go like this.

00:57:13.000 It's got to move around.

00:57:14.000 And the only way it moves around is if everybody's different.

00:57:16.000 If everybody's just a block, the same shape, the same density, the same size, like what is that?

00:57:23.000 It's boring.

00:57:25.000 Well, it's not just boring.

00:57:26.000 You're not going to have a competent society.

00:57:27.000 It's not going to work.

00:57:29.000 Like you need soft and hard.

00:57:31.000 You need both.

00:57:31.000 You need something in between.

00:57:33.000 You need far extreme right to polarize and activate the far extreme left.

00:57:39.000 I mean, I really think you need a guy like Trump.

00:57:42.000 To get people to be more politically active and more socially active. 0.52

00:57:46.000 I think, in many ways, he does the left a service by providing this, like, ridiculous figurehead of what's possible with ego and greed and right-wing gone amok.

00:57:57.000 You know, the Steve Bannons and the Breitbarts and all that stuff.

00:58:01.000 Like, that stuff empowers the other side, and the good thing about it is somewhere in the middle is like a balanced, healthy society, and hopefully we'll be able to achieve that someday.

00:58:11.000 I mean, this is the argument always, is that you cannot have light without dark.

00:58:15.000 You cannot have good without evil.

00:58:17.000 And the pendulum is going to swing back, hopefully, just waiting for that time to happen.

00:58:21.000 It always does.

00:58:22.000 It seems to always do that.

00:58:24.000 I just would hope that with the amount of information that's available today, that we can look at the actual studies that are being done on gender, on sex, on biology, and don't look at it in terms of, you know, don't quantify it in terms of this side's better or that side's better.

00:58:41.000 Just look at what fascinating difference is.

00:58:44.000 This is amazing and it's interesting.

00:58:46.000 And there's a lot of dummies that are men.

00:58:48.000 And there's a lot of dummies that are women. 1.00

00:58:50.000 There's just dummies. 1.00

00:58:51.000 And it doesn't have anything to do with one gender being superior or one gender being inferior.

00:58:56.000 It's just human beings have a lot of variability.

00:58:59.000 And there's a lot of different things that...

00:59:03.000 A lot of inputs in you developing and becoming a thirty-year-old person that happens to be talking to this other thirty-year-old person.

00:59:10.000 Your path to get to wherever you are.

00:59:13.000 There's so much going on.

00:59:15.000 There's influences in terms of your environment, your education, your life experiences, your family, your loved ones, your There's so much that leads to you being who you are today.

00:59:29.000 Yeah.

00:59:30.000 And it's really fascinating to study that, but only if you're allowed to actually look at it.

00:59:35.000 And be honest with it.

00:59:36.000 Yeah.

00:59:37.000 Because there's no point otherwise.

00:59:38.000 If you're just going to keep pumping out, like from a research perspective, if you go in, the only scientists who are going to look at this stuff now are the people who know what they're going to find in advance.

00:59:46.000 They're not going to publish anything that's going to upset the public.

00:59:49.000 So in my mind, there's no point to even do that kind of research because that's not actually science, what you're doing.

00:59:54.000 Yeah, that's really crazy, right?

00:59:55.000 That's where it gets really crazy.

00:59:57.000 Or you're not even allowed to do certain kinds of research.

01:00:00.000 Or if you are doing it, you're going to be categorized, oh, he's alt-right.

01:00:06.000 Or you're a conservative, or you're a...

01:00:11.000 Whatever.

01:00:12.000 Whatever you are. 1.00

01:00:13.000 Bad person. 1.00

01:00:13.000 You're a bad person. 1.00

01:00:14.000 You're wrong speak.

01:00:15.000 Yeah.

01:00:15.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:00:16.000 Why did you decide to call your podcast that?

01:00:19.000 I mean, it's a throwback to Orwell, obviously, in 1984 and this idea that by controlling language, we can control, the government can control how people think and what reality is.

01:00:30.000 And what I find interesting is with the topics we covered.

01:00:34.000 So first episode, we talked to James Damore.

01:00:36.000 Second episode, we talked to Lindsay Shepard and looked at the whole what happened at Wilfrid Laurier University.

01:00:42.000 And then the third one is rapid onset gender dysphoria.

01:00:45.000 So looking at this trend in adolescent girls who come out as transgender, even though they've had no previous signs of gender dysphoria.

01:00:53.000 And so with all of them, these issues are all super taboo and all these people have been mobbed.

01:00:58.000 And in the case of rapid onset gender dysphoria, you see the parents who are being called transphobic for questioning, is my daughter really trans?

01:01:05.000 You know, we're just trying to get at the truth, really.

01:01:07.000 We're trying to understand, you know, why is it we can't talk about these things?

01:01:11.000 Why is it we're in such a situation now that the response to any sort of unpopular idea is to be mobbed and to attack people and intimidate them and shut the conversation down.

01:01:22.000 Like, how do we stop that from happening?

01:01:24.000 Explain rapid onset gender dysphoria because I'm not really aware of that.

01:01:28.000 So it's this phenomenon that's been growing more recently.

01:01:31.000 How recently?

01:01:32.000 Probably say in the last 10 years.

01:01:34.000 There's been a switch.

01:01:35.000 So before referrals to gender clinics of kids who are feeling that they are born the opposite sex is predominantly boys.

01:01:41.000 And then suddenly there's been this explosion of girls. 0.96

01:01:44.000 And so when you talk to the parents, and it's interesting, when you listen to the episode that we did, their stories are so similar.

01:01:51.000 They're literally identical.

01:01:53.000 Their daughters have always been gender typical, so they're always very girly girls. 0.96

01:01:57.000 They've never been gender dysphoric.

01:01:59.000 They go through puberty.

01:02:00.000 They develop.

01:02:01.000 There's no problem there.

01:02:02.000 And then usually what happens is there's some sort of...

01:02:05.000 I don't know, educational session at school or one of these girls, their friends come out as trans and then the daughter says, oh, I want to be a boy.

01:02:14.000 And so if you take that child to a professional, like a therapist, the therapist has to affirm.

01:02:21.000 The therapist can't question that.

01:02:22.000 And so you have these girls and a lot of them have autism or they have other mental health issues.

01:02:27.000 They're not getting treated for those issues.

01:02:29.000 Instead, they're being told, okay, if you want to transition, we'll help you.

01:02:33.000 And like I said, I'm not against adults transitioning.

01:02:35.000 I don't think it's anyone's place to tell an adult what to do, and I think transitioning can be beneficial.

01:02:39.000 But if someone transitions, you want it to actually help them feel better.

01:02:44.000 And for these girls, if the issue is not even about gender, it doesn't make sense for them to transition. 1.00

01:02:50.000 Now this rapid onset gender dysphoria, is this typically females? 0.81

01:02:53.000 Yeah, almost all females.

01:02:55.000 What is the cause of that?

01:02:57.000 I think it's social contagion.

01:02:59.000 I think part of it is for some of these girls, they are a bit socially awkward. 1.00

01:03:02.000 And so when they come out as transgender, suddenly everybody loves them and wants to support them.

01:03:07.000 And I think as people should for trans people, because obviously it's a difficult thing to go through.

01:03:11.000 But I think there's an aspect of it that people aren't talking about that kids are coming out as transgender just because it gives them acceptance.

01:03:19.000 An extra reward.

01:03:20.000 Yeah.

01:03:21.000 There's a reward in terms of the attention they get.

01:03:23.000 Yeah.

01:03:24.000 And also, I think for girls, I mean, puberty is not a fun time.

01:03:27.000 Puberty is not a fun time for anybody.

01:03:28.000 Well, I wouldn't know.

01:03:30.000 You didn't go through puberty?

01:03:32.000 I did.

01:03:33.000 I did.

01:03:33.000 But I mean, you know, I love when people say, well, it's harder for guys.

01:03:38.000 What the fuck would you know? 0.99

01:03:39.000 You've never been a girl. 1.00

01:03:41.000 I think it's hard for everybody.

01:03:42.000 Everyone is kind of awkward and lanky, you know?

01:03:44.000 Life is hard.

01:03:45.000 Life is weird.

01:03:46.000 Being a person, being a finite organism, clinging to a ball that's spinning a thousand miles an hour, hurling through infinity, that's weird.

01:03:54.000 Life's weird.

01:03:54.000 And then the fact that your biology changes and you get inundated with hormones.

01:03:59.000 It's just the life that we live and then adapting to culture and trying to figure out how to be accepted.

01:04:06.000 I think that certainly plays a part.

01:04:08.000 This rapid onset gender dysphoria, how is this being treated?

01:04:14.000 Like in terms of how is this being accepted in academia?

01:04:19.000 How is it being discussed in the literature?

01:04:22.000 And what are the recommendations for what to do about it or the descriptions of what it is?

01:04:27.000 Well, there's only been one study so far that's been published because it is such a new phenomenon and because it is so hard to do this work because, I mean, people call it a myth.

01:04:37.000 Pretty much anything that counters the transgender narrative is considered hate speech.

01:04:42.000 So as a researcher, if you try to do any research on this issue that goes against what trans activists say is acceptable, you know you're going to get into trouble.

01:04:51.000 So no one wants to touch it.

01:04:52.000 So there's been one study that did show, you know, with girls especially, it's very much about Being influenced by friends within a peer group.

01:04:59.000 I think there's some crazy high number in terms of the number of girls that will come out as transgender one after the other.

01:05:04.000 So it's real.

01:05:05.000 But I mean, I get why people find it.

01:05:07.000 Some people find it threatening because it suggests that maybe trans people aren't really transgender.

01:05:12.000 You know, maybe the way they feel isn't legitimate.

01:05:15.000 But in terms of the way to treat it, these parents are at a loss.

01:05:19.000 I mean, these girls are not getting treated for the underlying condition. 1.00

01:05:23.000 There was one parent we spoke to, he saw nine mental health professionals.

01:05:27.000 Every single one said that your daughter's not transgender, but they couldn't go on the record as saying so.

01:05:32.000 I think only one went on the record as saying so, because they're terrified.

01:05:35.000 They're terrified of losing their job.

01:05:37.000 They're terrified of being attacked.

01:05:38.000 Yeah.

01:05:38.000 Yeah, definitely.

01:05:39.000 It's so interesting when you watch the similarities between any group that feels that they're being maligned or that are being very defensive about their position and trying to hold strong and aggressively attacking people that are against it.

01:05:57.000 In many ways, this sort of behavior is mirrored in the Second Amendment people, like the people that are pro-gun.

01:06:06.000 Like, if you tried any gun restrictions or any gun legislation or any changes in the laws of gun control, they aggressively go after it.

01:06:17.000 They do whatever they can to keep things the way they are now and show how much positive benefits guns have and how many people are saved by guns.

01:06:28.000 But it's this thing, besides the gun, take the gun out of it.

01:06:32.000 It's the defense of the idea.

01:06:34.000 It's like they're committed.

01:06:36.000 They identify with being a person who's a gun nut or a gun supporter or Second Amendment. 1.00

01:06:43.000 Freedom-loving, I got a fucking eagle on my back, you know, that kind of shit. 1.00

01:06:47.000 It's like, and it's the same thing with trans people. 1.00

01:06:49.000 Like, anything against anything, what you're saying, this is impossible.

01:06:53.000 This thing that you're talking about, this rapid-downset gender dysphoria, being autistic people, that is transphobic.

01:06:59.000 And they get super hyper-aggressive about it.

01:07:01.000 Instead of saying, oh, well...

01:07:03.000 Yeah.

01:07:22.000 That would be an interesting study, right?

01:07:24.000 If you look at the climate of today and the support of trans people and the attacking of people that are transphobic and the overwhelming social benefit of supporting trans people,

01:07:39.000 and then you look at the rapid onset gender dysphoria and see if they match up.

01:07:45.000 What you were saying, actually, I think the majority of trans people are not on board with this whole, across the board, everyone should just transition. 0.52

01:07:53.000 But I think it's another case of the vocal minority shutting down anyone who dares to disagree.

01:08:00.000 Well, some trans people get very upset if non-trans people talk about trans people.

01:08:05.000 Yeah.

01:08:05.000 Which is hilarious.

01:08:07.000 Yeah.

01:08:07.000 Like, what are we supposed to do?

01:08:08.000 Supposed to just shut our mouths and let you just run things? 1.00

01:08:10.000 Like, what?

01:08:11.000 I don't know what to do.

01:08:13.000 Like, this Scarlett Johansson thing was fascinating.

01:08:15.000 Yeah.

01:08:15.000 She was going to play a trans woman in a movie and people freaked out.

01:08:20.000 A trans man, I think.

01:08:20.000 A trans man, sorry.

01:08:21.000 A trans man in a movie and people freaked out that she is not trans and she has this part.

01:08:29.000 You know, that was the same thing that happened with Jeffrey Tambor.

01:08:32.000 Jeffrey Tambor was accused of sexual harassment by people on the set who were trans, who were also very upset that he was the star of a television show that was about trans people, and he's not trans.

01:08:43.000 And they were trans.

01:08:44.000 I get where people are coming from.

01:08:46.000 I do, because, you know, I think representation is important to some extent.

01:08:50.000 And so I can understand if you are of a group that isn't being represented in the media, how you would want that to change.

01:08:59.000 Yeah, but you're also looking at an A-list actress who would bring an incredible amount of attention to your progressive project. 1.00

01:09:06.000 And, you know, it may very well change the tone of the way people accept trans people.

01:09:12.000 Like, if it's portrayed in a positive light, it's entirely possible that it would open up, like, especially if people that are on the fence, it might open up their heart and make them look at things differently and say, oh, okay, I see where this...

01:09:25.000 Woman wanted, you know, she wanted to transition to be a man because she was wired incorrectly or wired to be a man. 1.00

01:09:33.000 I shouldn't even say incorrectly.

01:09:34.000 Like, maybe you could see her as a person now instead of just as a subject for debate or as a...

01:09:44.000 Well, the only fear I would have is, not with your point, but with my point, with the tokenization of people.

01:09:49.000 So to say, okay, if this is a trans role, we need to find a trans person.

01:09:53.000 Same as with racial tokenization.

01:09:55.000 We need to have a certain quota, so we need to have this number of people that fit this.

01:09:59.000 That's my only issue, because then people look at it and say, you only picked this person because of their identity, not because of what they brought to the table.

01:10:06.000 Right. 0.98

01:10:06.000 True, but I could argue against that if you go back and look at like John Wayne when he played Genghis Khan, like what in the fuck was that? 0.98

01:10:15.000 Or like there's a bunch of those really goofy ones like Charlie Chan. 0.77

01:10:19.000 Did you ever see the old-school Charlie Chan movies?

01:10:21.000 I think so.

01:10:22.000 I think you can find Charlie Chan. 1.00

01:10:24.000 It's fucking ridiculous. 0.99

01:10:25.000 I mean, you could even get an Asian guy to play Charlie Chan? 1.00

01:10:29.000 What the fuck is this? 0.98

01:10:33.000 They'd even try to make John Wayne look like he was Chinese. 1.00

01:10:37.000 Yeah.

01:10:37.000 You know, I mean there was a lot of that going on.

01:10:40.000 Did you ever see that ad where you see the Native American...

01:10:43.000 Yeah, there's the guy who played...

01:10:45.000 There's the guy who played Charlie Chan. 1.00

01:10:50.000 That motherfucker doesn't even look a little Chinese. 1.00

01:10:52.000 No. 1.00

01:10:53.000 And he talked in like a real stereotypical like shitty Chinese accent. 1.00

01:10:58.000 Yeah, I mean that's a bit offensive. 0.99

01:10:59.000 Super offensive, right?

01:11:01.000 But that was the sign of the times. 0.99

01:11:03.000 And so what trans people would say was like, look, this is the same goddamn thing. 0.96

01:11:07.000 This is just, you're looking at it in terms of Chinese people. 0.97

01:11:10.000 We're looking at it in terms of our people.

01:11:12.000 And, you know, we're not being represented.

01:11:14.000 You have someone playing us.

01:11:16.000 Do you remember that Native American ad?

01:11:18.000 There was an ad where someone would throw litter out a car window and the Native American guy had the tear run down his cheek?

01:11:24.000 I do remember that, yeah.

01:11:25.000 The guy was Italian.

01:11:27.000 Yeah.

01:11:27.000 He wasn't even a little bit Native American.

01:11:28.000 Do people know that, though?

01:11:30.000 Well, they do now.

01:11:30.000 They do now.

01:11:31.000 Anybody listening?

01:11:31.000 They're going to get upset now.

01:11:33.000 Some people know, because I'm not a researcher.

01:11:36.000 Yeah.

01:11:36.000 I didn't...

01:11:37.000 I didn't go deep and investigate.

01:11:39.000 I just read it.

01:11:40.000 I was like, that's hilarious.

01:11:42.000 Yeah.

01:11:42.000 I mean, I think for a lot of these issues at the core, there's something valuable there.

01:11:45.000 I do get the concern and I am empathic for that.

01:11:48.000 But it's to the point now where it's like every little thing.

01:11:50.000 Yeah.

01:11:51.000 Well, this is the outrage culture.

01:11:54.000 People are like super pumped to find something that's outrageous and then point fingers and attack.

01:11:59.000 And they love it when people back down.

01:12:02.000 Ooh! 0.96

01:12:03.000 They're so excited.

01:12:04.000 So like when Scarlett Johansson backed out of that movie, everybody got so excited.

01:12:08.000 We did it, girls! 0.99

01:12:09.000 We fucking got her! 1.00

01:12:11.000 But when people don't back down, they just give up. 1.00

01:12:15.000 Or they get confused.

01:12:16.000 They don't know what to do.

01:12:17.000 But that's the thing I find.

01:12:18.000 When you don't back down, they go and they find someone else.

01:12:20.000 They'll leave you alone.

01:12:21.000 Did you see what happened to Anthony Jeselnik?

01:12:23.000 No, I didn't.

01:12:24.000 They're attacking Anthony Jesselnik.

01:12:25.000 They're attacking a bunch of people for tweet jokes after James Gunn got fired.

01:12:30.000 Do you know who James Gunn is?

01:12:31.000 He's the guy who is the director of Guardians of the Galaxy.

01:12:34.000 Okay, yeah.

01:12:35.000 He had some really questionable tweets that were jokes.

01:12:41.000 He wrote some jokey joke things, but it's like about pedophilia, like a lot of them.

01:12:46.000 Oh, I did see that.

01:12:47.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:12:47.000 Like a lot of them.

01:12:48.000 Yeah, I did see.

01:12:48.000 There was like a huge screen of them cut and poppied and pasted.

01:12:52.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:12:52.000 They're fucking terrible. 1.00

01:12:54.000 The problem is they're not funny. 1.00

01:12:56.000 And they're jokes and they're really gross.

01:12:58.000 But should he be fired for that? 1.00

01:13:00.000 No, he's just a shitty joke teller. 0.99

01:13:02.000 If you find out he's actually a pedophile, that's one thing. 0.99

01:13:04.000 But it's Disney and it's today's climate.

01:13:07.000 So then they find that Anthony Jeselnik, the stand-up comedian, has a bunch of also offensive jokes and some of them about pedophiles.

01:13:14.000 And so they go and try to attack him.

01:13:17.000 And Anthony Jeselnik writes, Looking through my Twitter timeline, something along...

01:13:23.000 It's like a needle in a needle.

01:13:24.000 Yeah, he said, it's like looking for a needle in a needle store on customer appreciation day.

01:13:29.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:13:30.000 It's so true. 1.00

01:13:32.000 His whole fucking thing is his character. 0.99

01:13:36.000 Like, Anthony Jesselnik, in particular, I'm friends with him. 0.99

01:13:38.000 His whole thing is being ruthless and super offensive.

01:13:44.000 He had a show called The Jesselneck Offensive.

01:13:47.000 I mean, that's what he does.

01:13:49.000 I mean, his character is an awful person.

01:13:52.000 That's the character.

01:13:53.000 And so they just gave up.

01:13:55.000 It's totally lost on people now, right?

01:13:57.000 You just can't say things, period.

01:13:59.000 Well, they're looking for people to back down, and they're looking for people to get scared.

01:14:04.000 It's fun.

01:14:05.000 It's fun to find a target. 0.98

01:14:07.000 Let's get them fired! 1.00

01:14:09.000 Get her fired! 1.00

01:14:10.000 Take her off that movie! 1.00

01:14:11.000 It's fun for them.

01:14:13.000 Because as a, you know, hashtag, air quotes, activist, what they're doing is they're just attacking.

01:14:20.000 And there's probably some good out of it.

01:14:22.000 But look, there's got to be some good...

01:14:25.000 For sure, out of real monsters getting arrested, right?

01:14:30.000 There's some good out of the Harvey Weinsteins and the Bill Cosbys of the world getting arrested and getting busted and shutting down.

01:14:37.000 And we would hope that...

01:14:40.000 Other monsters in waiting would not act out on their instincts because of the fact they're worried about the repercussions that you're clearly seeing.

01:14:49.000 And that we would hope that people, that our behavior as a culture shifts one way or another.

01:14:55.000 And then it's going to move as far away from misogyny as possible.

01:15:00.000 And whether it's through the threat of incarceration or shame or whatever it is that causes it to go the other way. 0.99

01:15:08.000 It's probably for the best, as long as it doesn't go as far as all men are pigs, all men are creeps, all men are trash, and that's what we were talking about earlier. 0.99

01:15:18.000 Like, when it gets to that place, you gotta go, well, this is not a good place to be. 0.97

01:15:23.000 Well, also, if there is an allegation that that's taken at face value right away, because we do see, unfortunately, that some of these allegations are false.

01:15:32.000 Well, it has to be.

01:15:33.000 This whole idea of believe women. 0.91

01:15:35.000 Well, okay, but does that mean don't believe men?

01:15:39.000 Because some women lie and some men lie. 0.68

01:15:42.000 What about individuals?

01:15:44.000 What about human beings?

01:15:45.000 So if we're going to – I mean, it's what we were talking about earlier, like white power, black power, brown power. 1.00

01:15:51.000 Fucking human beings. 0.99

01:15:53.000 And as soon as we stop looking at human beings as individuals and we just agree that one group is good and one group is bad, you've got some real discrimination problems there. 1.00

01:16:05.000 Yeah.

01:16:05.000 Well, you can't win in that way either because you can't look...

01:16:07.000 Whether you side with believe all victims or I believe...

01:16:10.000 What is it?

01:16:11.000 I believe women or something like that. 1.00

01:16:12.000 Yeah.

01:16:12.000 There's a hashtag.

01:16:13.000 Believe women.

01:16:14.000 I believe survivors or something like that.

01:16:17.000 Or if you say you want due process and women lie and that side of the equation, I think both sides are equally bad because you're not getting at the truth. 1.00

01:16:27.000 Well, we're also in this weird, slippery thing when it comes to human beings and truth because it's so hard to tell who's telling the truth.

01:16:35.000 If two people see something, like see a car accident, and one person says, well, this lady ran the red light and slammed into the car, and then the person right next to her says, no, she didn't.

01:16:44.000 This other guy ran the red light, and she hit him.

01:16:50.000 There's a lot of subjectivity in terms of interpersonal Relationships.

01:16:55.000 Well, there's also a problem with just describing things and language and reality.

01:17:00.000 I don't know if you're telling the truth.

01:17:02.000 I don't know. 1.00

01:17:03.000 Especially if it's just like, you know, I leave, I go to the bathroom, I come back and Jamie says, she just called me a piece of shit. 0.95

01:17:11.000 And you're like, no, I didn't. 0.99

01:17:13.000 Like, okay, well, who's right?

01:17:14.000 I don't know.

01:17:15.000 I literally don't have a mechanism to detect who said what.

01:17:20.000 It is not possible.

01:17:21.000 So am I just going to believe women? 1.00

01:17:24.000 Or am I going to believe the individual?

01:17:27.000 Or am I going to try to figure this out?

01:17:29.000 Am I going to do my detective work? 1.00

01:17:30.000 Fuck, it's very tricky. 0.99

01:17:32.000 So when you're dealing with some certain accusations when it comes to human beings, like this Chris Hardwick thing is a perfect example of that. 1.00

01:17:39.000 I mean, he was just reinstated yesterday by AMC. And that's a weird one.

01:17:46.000 It was an ex-girlfriend that wrote something about him.

01:17:49.000 Yeah, I read that.

01:17:50.000 Well, she clearly didn't tell the truth about some aspects of their relationship.

01:17:54.000 She cheated on him, and that's why he got rid of her, or broke up with her.

01:17:58.000 And then she also said he was this terrible boyfriend, but then there's videos of her talking about what an amazing boyfriend he was.

01:18:07.000 While they were together about how we stayed with her in the hospital and slept by her bed and it's like and she's also she had a bunch a host of mental illnesses that she described in their video about like not being able to drive down the street with the windows open because she's worried that germs gonna get in her car and some of those she recovered from and some of them she didn't like it's and there's another problem with people when it comes to when they're talking about things they might not even be lying Yeah,

01:18:35.000 that's the thing.

01:18:36.000 They just might have a distorted perception of reality.

01:18:38.000 That is another problem with human beings when it comes to any sort of interaction between two people.

01:18:43.000 Especially after a breakup, I think the way that a person can view the time they spent with someone can very much change based on their current situation or how that breakup happened.

01:18:51.000 100%.

01:18:52.000 Yeah.

01:18:53.000 On both sides.

01:18:54.000 The real problem, though, is what we were saying is that Human beings, it's very difficult.

01:19:01.000 I can't read minds.

01:19:03.000 You can't read minds.

01:19:04.000 You can't look into memories.

01:19:05.000 So we're relying on a person's description and then we have to rely on what we know about them.

01:19:11.000 What we know about their ability to describe things accurately, what we know about their perceptions of reality, their delusions, their clarity. 0.85

01:19:24.000 It's fucking super tricky. 0.90

01:19:27.000 Yeah, I mean my rule of thumb what I would say to people is unless you know the two people I don't think you can ever really know what happened So in that case of say you leave and Jamie tells you I said something about you're probably gonna go with Jamie right cuz you know him so I would say this Jamie's a little crazy. 0.97

01:19:40.000 I might go Yeah, I mean it's for sure if I didn't know you and in Jamie told me you did something fucked up I would side with Jamie but Even that's weird.

01:19:53.000 If I'm not there, if I don't know.

01:19:56.000 If you say, I didn't do anything.

01:19:58.000 I'm like, maybe one day you'll be my best friend. 1.00

01:20:00.000 And maybe one day Jamie will turn out to be a fucking psycho. 1.00

01:20:04.000 I was like, remember when we used to think Jamie was okay? 1.00

01:20:06.000 He's fucking crazy. 1.00

01:20:07.000 But that's the thing, too. 1.00

01:20:09.000 I do empathize with some women who say, if this happens to them, and people say, well, that's a nice guy.

01:20:15.000 I know that guy.

01:20:16.000 That's my buddy.

01:20:16.000 I've known him forever.

01:20:17.000 But you didn't date him.

01:20:18.000 So how do you know?

01:20:19.000 You don't know.

01:20:20.000 Right.

01:20:21.000 Yeah.

01:20:21.000 You don't know.

01:20:23.000 God damn it. 1.00

01:20:24.000 It's fucking tricky. 1.00

01:20:25.000 You know, have you ever seen that episode of Black... 0.98

01:20:28.000 Do you ever watch Black Mirror?

01:20:29.000 I watched one episode, so everyone tells me how amazing this show is, and I think it is amazing, but I saw one episode that really freaked me out.

01:20:35.000 Was it Crocodile?

01:20:36.000 No, it was the one about...

01:20:38.000 It was actually about the boy who was a pedophile, and then he was being watched and blackmailed.

01:20:44.000 It creeped me out.

01:20:45.000 I didn't watch that one.

01:20:46.000 But there's one called Crocodile.

01:20:48.000 Okay.

01:20:48.000 And it is easily the most disturbing episode of a television show I've ever watched in my life.

01:20:55.000 And it has to do with technology that allows people to read memories.

01:20:59.000 Okay.

01:20:59.000 And I'll leave it at that because no spoiler alerts here.

01:21:03.000 But until...

01:21:04.000 It is awful. 0.98

01:21:05.000 Fucking dark episode stays with you after this one does this one's dark I mean this I mean I can't I can't I will give too much away if I talk about it but the concept is that you can they have a machine and they set this machine up and through this machine they can literally read your memories Okay. 0.98

01:21:25.000 Until that happens, we really don't know. 0.98

01:21:29.000 And, you know, there's been things in my life where I looked back on it and I had a perception and then I went to the place where I grew up and I was like, I don't remember it looking like this.

01:21:38.000 I don't remember this being so close.

01:21:40.000 Oh, the street's right here?

01:21:42.000 This is where the house is?

01:21:43.000 Oh.

01:21:44.000 And then you have to kind of like remap your memories.

01:21:46.000 Like, okay, we got to clean these memories up and try to figure out what's accurate and what's not.

01:21:50.000 But then, I'm just talking about like the neighborhood where I grew up in.

01:21:55.000 But what about you're adding in emotions?

01:21:57.000 Then you're adding in painful emotions because of breakups and perhaps suicidal thoughts and...

01:22:03.000 Time going by also.

01:22:05.000 Yes, time.

01:22:06.000 Sure.

01:22:07.000 I mean, it's been absolutely proven that eyewitness testimony is the least accurate piece of evidence that any investigator can ever use in terms of like trying to figure out what happened at the scene of a crime or anything involving any sort of trauma.

01:22:23.000 Mm-hmm. 0.73

01:22:24.000 It's fucking hard with people's minds. 0.99

01:22:26.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:22:27.000 And I mean, when we look at, say, the issue with Me Too and the sexual assault and sexual harassment, I think also some people see this and they think, I want to help this person.

01:22:35.000 So they might reinterpret their situation in a way to say, I also want to help this person.

01:22:40.000 Well, I think there's clearly, without doubt, been a lot of unchecked sexual harassment in the workplace.

01:22:50.000 Yeah.

01:22:51.000 I've always said this, and this is not to say that men and women shouldn't work together.

01:22:55.000 I'm not saying that in any stretch.

01:22:56.000 I just want to get that out of the way really quick.

01:22:58.000 But when men and women do work together, they're around each other all day.

01:23:02.000 And people are sexually attracted to each other. 0.99

01:23:05.000 And men are gross. 0.99

01:23:07.000 And it's just... 0.99

01:23:09.000 This guy that I was having this conversation with today, we were talking about that. 0.99

01:23:12.000 I was like, could you imagine being a girl and working in an office and guys trying to fuck you all the time? 1.00

01:23:16.000 And they're always saying stupid shit to you when you're trying to get coffee. 1.00

01:23:20.000 We were talking about gay guys. 1.00

01:23:22.000 And he was saying, when he was in the military, would you have a problem with gay people?

01:23:28.000 And it was really funny.

01:23:29.000 He goes, if I was working with a gay guy, I'd want him to like me.

01:23:33.000 That way he'd try to impress me and he'd do his job better and he'd be real nice to me.

01:23:37.000 We were laughing about it.

01:23:38.000 But I was like, okay, that's true. 1.00

01:23:40.000 But if you were around a gay guy that was always trying to fuck you and maybe touched your ass when you bent over to pick up some paper or something like that, that would get real annoying. 1.00

01:23:50.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:23:51.000 And if your job relied on this guy liking you and approving you, which a lot of women's jobs rely on creeps liking them and approving you, it gets fucking disgusting. 0.99

01:24:01.000 That's the reality that many women have lived with for decades. 1.00

01:24:04.000 Yeah, I don't deny that, yeah.

01:24:06.000 This is gonna shift, I'm hoping. 0.88

01:24:09.000 Even with the far-reaching aspects of it, where all men are trash, I'm hoping the tide is going to just sort of settle back in. 1.00

01:24:20.000 Instead of being over this way, it's going to come back over this way and just bounce out in the middle a little bit.

01:24:26.000 We'll get a better understanding of each other.

01:24:28.000 Yeah, that's my hope too.

01:24:29.000 I hope that there's not so much damage done that's fixable at that point.

01:24:35.000 What damage?

01:24:37.000 I feel men nowadays are terrified to interact with women.

01:24:43.000 Especially in the workplace.

01:24:44.000 I think you should be careful anyway.

01:24:46.000 Look, I think we're all way too casual about getting intimate with people.

01:24:49.000 And I've been guilty of it myself in my life at many times.

01:24:52.000 But I think you should get to know people a little bit better.

01:24:55.000 The problem is people are horny.

01:24:56.000 And they're like, I get you.

01:24:58.000 You get me?

01:24:58.000 Hey, let's do this!

01:24:59.000 You know, and that's a real problem. 0.96

01:25:01.000 And then you hook up with crazy people.

01:25:03.000 And then you have to keep working with them after.

01:25:05.000 Yeah, that's even worse.

01:25:07.000 People that have inter-office relationships.

01:25:09.000 And I know people who work in offices where it's strictly forbidden.

01:25:13.000 Like you're not allowed.

01:25:14.000 And then I'm like, well, okay, but what if you fall in love with someone in the office?

01:25:19.000 What if they're the perfect person for you?

01:25:20.000 You've got to quit your job?

01:25:21.000 Yeah.

01:25:22.000 I don't like businesses imposing that.

01:25:25.000 I think people should be able to make those decisions.

01:25:27.000 But it's a tricky decision.

01:25:28.000 I would never date anybody at work.

01:25:30.000 You say that.

01:25:31.000 Well, but I don't.

01:25:33.000 Are you married?

01:25:33.000 No, I'm not married.

01:25:34.000 Okay.

01:25:35.000 You have a boyfriend?

01:25:36.000 No.

01:25:37.000 Okay.

01:25:38.000 What if... 0.95

01:25:40.000 You met a guy that you worked with, and he was fucking amazing.

01:25:44.000 And he was single, and you're single, and you guys just got along great.

01:25:49.000 And he was respectful, and he's intelligent, he's funny, and he's interesting, and you like doing things with him. 0.99

01:25:55.000 But there are lots of men in this world who are- Get the fuck out of here. 0.96

01:25:57.000 This is not. 0.98

01:25:58.000 That's not true.

01:25:59.000 There are so many men in this world.

01:26:01.000 Why is it this one person I work with is the only one who's going to be a match for me?

01:26:05.000 He's the only one you've ever met that's like that.

01:26:07.000 I don't think so.

01:26:08.000 I mean, but the thing is, I'm very career-oriented, so that could be part of why.

01:26:11.000 Because you're Asian. 0.99

01:26:12.000 Well, that's racist. 0.97

01:26:15.000 It's racist to say that Asians are determined.

01:26:19.000 But in that way, I guess, I'm a little bit more risk-averse.

01:26:22.000 I'm not going to potentially jeopardize my career over a person that I meet that I like.

01:26:27.000 What if he was wanting to quit his job?

01:26:29.000 Well...

01:26:32.000 Maybe we could talk, but yeah, I'd be like, you're gonna quit your job for a woman? 1.00

01:26:36.000 I don't know. 1.00

01:26:37.000 You fucking loser. 1.00

01:26:38.000 What are you gonna do if we have kids? 1.00

01:26:40.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:26:42.000 I see both sides.

01:26:43.000 But then I see, okay, now imagine being a woman who works in the office with this guy who's in love with this woman, and then they have a relationship, and then all of a sudden her career starts doing a little bit better.

01:26:54.000 That's the thing.

01:26:55.000 Other women like me say, well, wait, we're not sleeping with people to get to the top. 1.00

01:27:00.000 Is that fair?

01:27:01.000 Well, that is the world of the actress. 1.00

01:27:04.000 It is.

01:27:05.000 And that is the world of the casting couch.

01:27:07.000 This is the not-so-secret aspect of the casting couch that many, many, many people are aware of. 0.99

01:27:17.000 Is that these women fucked some of these men. 1.00

01:27:20.000 And we're not talking about Rape. 1.00

01:27:22.000 We're talking about women who chose to engage in willingful sex with people who were... 1.00

01:27:27.000 Transactional. 0.97

01:27:28.000 Yes.

01:27:28.000 Transactional is a great way to put it.

01:27:30.000 There's a lot of women who I know who are actresses who were approached by certain types of men who are producers or executives in certain ways, and they said no.

01:27:41.000 And then girls that they know said yes, and their careers advanced.

01:27:46.000 Yeah.

01:27:46.000 And this was a thing where people were aware of it.

01:27:49.000 There's a power dynamic that exists when there's a boss and then there's an underling.

01:27:56.000 There's a person who's working for that boss. 0.97

01:27:58.000 And whether it's a producer and an actress or whether it's a CEO and an employee, when they engage in some sort of a transactional sexual relationship, that makes everyone fucking uncomfortable. 0.96

01:28:13.000 But how do you stop that?

01:28:14.000 Do you think it's the industry's job, or how do you weed that out?

01:28:19.000 I think corporations pretty much across the board now just fire people when they do that.

01:28:24.000 There was a recent CEO of some large, high-profile company who had to step down because he was involved in a consensual sexual relationship with somebody.

01:28:34.000 Do you remember who that was?

01:28:35.000 It was real big.

01:28:37.000 Something...

01:28:38.000 Super recent, but it was it was no crime, but it was consensual sexual relationship with someone who worked for him.

01:28:45.000 Was it?

01:28:46.000 Intel.

01:28:47.000 Yeah.

01:28:48.000 People, they're around each other all day long.

01:28:52.000 Think about it.

01:28:52.000 If you go home, say if you work eight hours a day, and it takes you an hour to drive to work, takes you an hour to drive home, that's fucking ten hours, and nobody works eight hours a day if you really want to make it, right?

01:29:02.000 You work nine and ten, so it's like half the day is gone.

01:29:06.000 You get home, you're exhausted, You know, your husband's exhausted.

01:29:10.000 You're staring at each other.

01:29:11.000 You're together like three or four hours.

01:29:13.000 You have a meal.

01:29:14.000 You go to sleep.

01:29:15.000 You get up in the morning.

01:29:17.000 You go do it again.

01:29:18.000 You're with those people at work more than you're even with the people that you live with.

01:29:22.000 You know, that's really...

01:29:24.000 And that's your waking hours. 0.98

01:29:26.000 By the time you get home, you're fucking tired. 0.96

01:29:28.000 And if you go to the gym afterwards, well, there's an hour and a half gone there. 0.98

01:29:31.000 You might see each other for an hour a night.

01:29:33.000 Yeah.

01:29:34.000 No, and especially if people are single.

01:29:35.000 I mean, obviously, it's a little bit easier for that to happen as well.

01:29:38.000 Yeah, it becomes a big part of your social interaction.

01:29:41.000 I mean, how many people, their social circle is primarily the people that they work with.

01:29:47.000 Yeah.

01:29:48.000 Real common, right?

01:29:49.000 Very common.

01:29:50.000 Yeah.

01:29:51.000 So, I mean, I think if it's a consensual relationship, there shouldn't be anything wrong there.

01:29:55.000 But I can see how in this climate, there are all these other, you know, ways of looking at being imposed on it.

01:30:01.000 So, is that really consensual if it's someone who is your boss?

01:30:04.000 But then, imagine, say, if you and Jamie worked together, okay?

01:30:08.000 And you guys had a consensual sexual relationship, and you both were on the same level, you both, and there's not, it's not like anybody has any power, but then you break up.

01:30:17.000 You know? 1.00

01:30:17.000 And then Jamie comes over to me and he's like, you know, I gotta tell you, that doctor's a fucking asshole. 1.00

01:30:22.000 He's a bitch. 1.00

01:30:23.000 And then you come to me, and you're like, you know, Jamie, you know, he looks like a good guy, but when you start dating him, he's a fucking selfish prick. 1.00

01:30:29.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:30:30.000 People need to leave that at home.

01:30:32.000 Yeah, well, it definitely becomes a problem in the workforce when you're not just friends.

01:30:38.000 Friends is fine.

01:30:39.000 But when you start having sex with each other, that's when things get crazy.

01:30:43.000 You know, very few people are able to separate sex and emotions with friendship.

01:30:50.000 Very, very few people.

01:30:51.000 That's probably, that's one of the things that's admirable about these people that are willing to have these open relationships. 0.99

01:30:58.000 It's like, whoa, like you can, I know guys like hang out with other guys who fuck their girlfriend. 0.99

01:31:05.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:31:06.000 I'm like, Jesus, you're a better man than me.

01:31:08.000 Well, some of them like that though. 1.00

01:31:10.000 Like if they're masochistic, they like the idea of their woman being, having sex with another guy. 0.99

01:31:15.000 Well, you didn't want to use the word cuck. 0.99

01:31:18.000 I like how you went with masochistic.

01:31:20.000 Well, I mean, I guess that's a technical term, too.

01:31:22.000 We can call them cucks.

01:31:24.000 Cuck is a compromised word, though, now, isn't it?

01:31:27.000 Yeah.

01:31:27.000 There's a whole other stuff that comes with that.

01:31:31.000 Yeah, it gets squirrely.

01:31:32.000 I thought it always meant that it always meant, like, cuckold. 1.00

01:31:37.000 Like, you want to watch men have sex with your wife. 1.00

01:31:39.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:31:40.000 But then it got to where...

01:31:42.000 What is it?

01:31:43.000 What is...

01:31:43.000 What is the...

01:31:45.000 It's basically like your beta male now.

01:31:47.000 Beta male.

01:31:47.000 But there's so many different versions of it now.

01:31:49.000 It's become really freely tossed around like a beach ball at a concert, just throwing cuck around these days.

01:31:56.000 Yeah.

01:31:56.000 I mean, I think that's fine if that's what you're into.

01:31:58.000 No judgment there.

01:32:00.000 Yeah. 0.71

01:32:01.000 Someone's into being cuckolded.

01:32:02.000 Yeah, if that's what you're into. 0.51

01:32:04.000 Good luck with that.

01:32:09.000 Okay.

01:32:10.000 Cuck.

01:32:10.000 A man who's desperate for acceptance, approval, and affection from women.

01:32:14.000 Oh.

01:32:15.000 Now it's different.

01:32:21.000 Does 4chan write this?

01:32:30.000 And what he deserves as a human being.

01:32:32.000 Example, loyalty, fidelity, and honesty in a romantic relationship.

01:32:37.000 Okay.

01:32:39.000 Okay, look at the example they gave.

01:32:41.000 Hold on a second. 0.97

01:32:42.000 I know John's always wanted a girlfriend, but since him and Mary started dating, he's become a cuck. 0.93

01:32:47.000 She spends all of his money and flirts openly with other men. 0.97

01:32:53.000 I can tell it bothers him, but he's so afraid of losing her that he doesn't say anything. 0.99

01:32:59.000 That's a cuck. 0.99

01:33:01.000 Sounds like a male feminist also. 1.00

01:33:04.000 I can't believe you went there.

01:33:07.000 Yeah, that male feminist thing. 1.00

01:33:10.000 I've known a few that were real creeps.

01:33:13.000 That were fake creeps.

01:33:15.000 You know, they're like on the side.

01:33:18.000 What they were doing was...

01:33:23.000 They're posturing as an alternative to these men who don't want monogamous relationships or would break the woman's heart or are not willing to compromise and bend the will of the woman.

01:33:35.000 And they put these women on a platform and worship these women and I am the alternative. 0.92

01:33:41.000 And I'm the powerful alternative. 1.00

01:33:42.000 And these men are assholes. 1.00

01:33:43.000 And then they try to shit on those men and take those... 1.00

01:33:46.000 But all it does is make those men appear even more attractive to these women secretly. 1.00

01:33:51.000 These men, these feminist men, and these women have... 1.00

01:33:59.000 We're good to go.

01:34:23.000 Yeah, I mean, I think men who, not all men who call themselves feminists are male feminists.

01:34:30.000 So in that, I think men who ascribe to women being equal, that's a good thing.

01:34:35.000 And I think a lot of guys will say, yeah, I'm feminist, because they think that's the right thing to do. 1.00

01:34:39.000 That's the socially acceptable thing, and that's the way we should be.

01:34:43.000 But then the ones who run around and say, you know, really, really push it and make that their identity and really sell themselves as male feminists, those are the guys I have an issue with.

01:34:53.000 Because like you said, they're sneaky.

01:34:54.000 They know what they're doing.

01:34:56.000 They're not being honest.

01:34:58.000 Well, you could almost always tell...

01:35:03.000 You see them.

01:35:04.000 They're a type.

01:35:07.000 They're an unattractive type.

01:35:08.000 They're not attractive to women. 1.00

01:35:10.000 And they try to figure out a way.

01:35:12.000 Like, how am I going to do this?

01:35:14.000 What's going to be the way?

01:35:15.000 You've got to figure out a way to stand out.

01:35:16.000 This is the way.

01:35:18.000 What do these women want to hear? 1.00

01:35:20.000 They want to hear that?

01:35:20.000 I'm going to say that.

01:35:22.000 Egalitarian is great.

01:35:23.000 Someone who believes in equality is great.

01:35:26.000 But as soon as you're proclaiming yourself to be more interested in the opposite gender.

01:35:35.000 And more supportive of them than males.

01:35:38.000 And even though you are a male.

01:35:41.000 That should be a red flag.

01:35:42.000 That's a giant red flag.

01:35:44.000 You should be into humans.

01:35:45.000 I like people.

01:35:47.000 I like people.

01:35:48.000 I like them gay.

01:35:49.000 I like them straight.

01:35:50.000 I like people.

01:35:51.000 I like when they're nice.

01:35:53.000 You're nice to me, I'm nice to you.

01:35:54.000 That's what I like.

01:35:55.000 I don't want you to get discriminated against in any way, shape, or form.

01:35:58.000 But I don't want to pretend that one group is better than other groups.

01:36:01.000 Except Asians when it comes to Harvard. 1.00

01:36:04.000 The crazy thing is with these guys, though, you see there's been a trend where they actually have a lot to hide, and they usually are misogynistic, and they usually do abuse women, which is the scary thing.

01:36:14.000 I think what happens is there's a certain amount of resentment from living this sort of fake life and having these fake beliefs and doing so just to get to the approval of women.

01:36:26.000 And then when it doesn't work out, there's anger and resentment and this just...

01:36:32.000 Or I think some guys put it on because it's a way of overcompensating for their own guilt.

01:36:36.000 Yeah, that's true too, probably.

01:36:38.000 Yeah, there's probably a lot of different reasons why men become feminist and very few of them are good. 0.98

01:36:43.000 Unless they're just...

01:36:44.000 Their idea of what it means is different than my idea of what it means. 1.00

01:36:48.000 My idea it means, look at that little sneaky fuck. 1.00

01:36:50.000 That's my idea. 1.00

01:36:52.000 Because I've just seen so many of them.

01:36:55.000 Look, I'm sure some bank robbers are really romantic, interesting poets who just decide this is a great way to make money.

01:37:02.000 There's got to be one.

01:37:04.000 You know? 1.00

01:37:05.000 But most of them are fucking criminals. 1.00

01:37:07.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:37:07.000 Right? 1.00

01:37:08.000 And this is like how I feel about male feminists. 1.00

01:37:10.000 Like, I'm sure there's a bunch of them out there that are really good guys and maybe through the influence of the people that have been around, they've chosen to identify as a male feminist and this seems to be a good way to show that they support women. 0.98

01:37:24.000 And even if they have to support women over men, look, women have been fucked over for so long. 1.00

01:37:30.000 I'm more than willing to do that. 0.99

01:37:31.000 And they do it with good intentions.

01:37:33.000 That's entirely possible.

01:37:34.000 But a lot of it are creepy little dudes that are trying to get laid, and they're not attractive to women. 0.51

01:37:40.000 So they're trying to figure out a way to become attractive to women.

01:37:43.000 And they don't have the confidence to just go, well, aren't we all equal?

01:37:46.000 Aren't we all just all humans?

01:37:48.000 Aren't we all different?

01:37:49.000 Or work on yourself to make yourself more attractive to women instead of deceiving them.

01:37:53.000 One of my all-time favorite tweets that I read was a guy saying, I'm not going to describe myself as a feminist until women tell me that I'm doing feminism correctly. 0.92

01:38:00.000 Oh, I saw that, yeah.

01:38:03.000 He's like more feminist than regular feminists. 0.69

01:38:05.000 He's like so feminist he can't- Like 2,000 times. 0.78

01:38:08.000 Yeah, can't be a feminist to women. 1.00

01:38:10.000 Tell me I'm a feminist. 1.00

01:38:13.000 Mistress, mistress, please tell me. 0.99

01:38:15.000 That dude's got a ball gag on right now.

01:38:17.000 He's like tightening it down.

01:38:21.000 He's putting himself in the shackles.

01:38:26.000 But then there's women like that, too. 1.00

01:38:28.000 There's women that pretend to be one of the guys, like that girl. 0.67

01:38:32.000 There's always the one of the guys girl.

01:38:34.000 People can sense it, though.

01:38:36.000 I think other guys can tell when a guy is not sincere about being a male feminist, and the same with girls can tell.

01:38:43.000 Oh, yeah.

01:38:43.000 You know the big red flag with girls?

01:38:46.000 Girls who don't have girlfriends. 0.85

01:38:49.000 They're just friends with guys.

01:38:50.000 I get along with guys better.

01:38:51.000 Yeah, I bet you do.

01:38:55.000 I had a friend of mine who was dating a girl like that, and all she had was male friends.

01:39:02.000 I was like, dude!

01:39:04.000 I'm like, get out!

01:39:06.000 Now!

01:39:07.000 Like, this is not gonna work.

01:39:09.000 So tell me, what does that mean?

01:39:11.000 Girls don't like her. 1.00

01:39:13.000 Girls don't trust her. 1.00

01:39:14.000 You can't find any girls.

01:39:16.000 That's crazy.

01:39:17.000 That is crazy.

01:39:18.000 I'm not saying you shouldn't have some guy friends, but all your friends are guys.

01:39:23.000 That's a red flag.

01:39:24.000 No, I would agree with that.

01:39:25.000 And any guy, you have a straight guy and all his friends are girls. 1.00

01:39:30.000 What in the fuck is happening here? 0.99

01:39:33.000 I just don't get along with guys. 1.00

01:39:35.000 Guys are assholes. 1.00

01:39:36.000 I don't like the way they talk about women. 1.00

01:39:38.000 Oh, okay.

01:39:39.000 All of them.

01:39:41.000 All of them do.

01:39:42.000 Yeah.

01:39:42.000 Come on.

01:39:43.000 Where are you hanging out, dude?

01:39:45.000 You don't like any guys?

01:39:47.000 Okay.

01:39:47.000 Yeah.

01:39:48.000 Seems weird.

01:39:49.000 So what did your friend do? 0.99

01:39:50.000 Oh, he got fucked around on? 0.99

01:39:52.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:39:53.000 She was fucking all those guys. 1.00

01:39:55.000 I was gonna say, yeah. 1.00

01:39:58.000 Of course!

01:39:59.000 I mean, the writing's on the wall.

01:40:01.000 Yeah, it was ugly, too.

01:40:03.000 The way it went down, it was like, whoa.

01:40:06.000 But that's how it is.

01:40:07.000 People are always trying to find their way in.

01:40:12.000 What's my way to get the most acceptance?

01:40:15.000 My way to get the most happiness?

01:40:18.000 It's fairly unrelated, but not necessarily to what we were talking about about Gender dysphoria about some people choosing that as a path to get a lot of attention.

01:40:28.000 I mean, I think there's many things that people do to get a lot of attention.

01:40:32.000 There's things that people do to stand out as typically unique, right?

01:40:36.000 Dye their hair pink or purple or blue or wear certain things or do certain piercings.

01:40:42.000 There's things that people do to like get attention and fit in and find their niche and just do something where it makes them feel like they have some clout in this community of humans.

01:40:55.000 Yeah.

01:40:55.000 It helps them find other people, too, who are like them.

01:40:57.000 Yeah.

01:40:58.000 Yeah.

01:40:58.000 And also, like, they're signaling to each other.

01:41:01.000 We're all equal.

01:41:03.000 We're all similar.

01:41:04.000 We're all in this kind of clan.

01:41:06.000 We're outsiders.

01:41:07.000 You know, it's fascinating.

01:41:10.000 I'm all for that.

01:41:11.000 I'm all for people finding each other and, you know, self-expression.

01:41:13.000 It's only when it is having negative implications for other people that's when it's a problem.

01:41:18.000 Oh, for sure.

01:41:19.000 Yeah.

01:41:20.000 Yeah, that's...

01:41:21.000 Yeah, when it's not just a bunch of people finding each other, but a bunch of people looking at the other people and attacking them for not being similar.

01:41:32.000 Yeah.

01:41:33.000 But that's one of the things people do to sort of affirm their identity, right?

01:41:37.000 You attack the people that oppose that identity or attack the people that are different.

01:41:40.000 Do people need to do that, though?

01:41:42.000 I wish they didn't.

01:41:42.000 Yeah.

01:41:43.000 But they do so often.

01:41:44.000 They do.

01:41:44.000 You've got to wonder, like, objectively, if you were from another planet and you were watching these patterns take place, you go, wow, look at this creepy little organism.

01:41:52.000 Look at this weird thing that it does.

01:41:54.000 Yeah.

01:41:55.000 Going back to the transgender bullying, I guess, my issue with all of that intimidation is the fact that these kids are not getting the help that they need.

01:42:05.000 And so if we look at something like I was saying earlier about if it's a little boy who says he's a girl, he's likely going to grow up to be a gay man.

01:42:13.000 You can't say that now.

01:42:14.000 And so all of the scientific research suggests that, all the studies ever done suggest that, but you can't say that because it really upsets transgender activists.

01:42:23.000 And so you have all these children now who are transitioning who I think in five, ten years are going to regret it. 1.00

01:42:28.000 Isn't this sort of similar to what we were talking about earlier is that historically Trans people have been so discriminated against that it shifted so hard the other way.

01:42:43.000 Yeah.

01:42:43.000 That it's gone the other way.

01:42:44.000 Like just what we were talking about in terms of sexism and then harassment in the workplace and sexual harassment and rape was so one-sided that now it's pushing the opposite way.

01:42:56.000 I read a tweet once by this woman that said, here's an unpopular opinion.

01:42:59.000 And she was an editor of a magazine.

01:43:02.000 Here's an unpopular opinion.

01:43:03.000 I'm not even remotely concerned with men being falsely accused of sexual harassment or assault.

01:43:09.000 And she was attacked.

01:43:11.000 Yeah.

01:43:12.000 Brett Weinstein retweeted it and pointed out how wrong this idea was and how crazy this is to take allies who are falsely accused of sexual harassment or assault and not being concerned about that.

01:43:25.000 You're only concerned with your own gender. 0.99

01:43:27.000 This is a perfect example of an intelligent person that's thinking in this really crazy discriminatory way because in her mind, her team had been fucked over so many times that it's time to fuck over that other team. 0.99

01:43:42.000 If we lose a couple of people, hey, we shoot some drones into some apartment buildings and a few civilians die, at least we got the terrorists. 0.99

01:43:49.000 Yeah.

01:43:50.000 Yeah.

01:43:51.000 And I mean, I understand that, like the anger that comes with that.

01:43:54.000 I think for the people who are the most militant, so not to say that of this particular person, but I think of women in particular who are the most militant about this movement, I think they really just have been hurt badly by men.

01:44:04.000 And it's a way for them to express that.

01:44:06.000 But you can't say that.

01:44:08.000 No, you can't.

01:44:08.000 If you say that these women that are angry about men, that they've been hurt by men, so now they discriminate against large groups of men because of that pain.

01:44:18.000 If you do that, you're a self-hater.

01:44:22.000 Yeah, internalized misogyny.

01:44:23.000 Yeah.

01:44:24.000 Which is sad, but you can't actually argue with it.

01:44:30.000 Where does this balance out, though?

01:44:32.000 Does it balance out to a point in our children's future, our children's children's future, where this is no longer a concern, like cannibalism is no longer a concern, or a very, very slight concern?

01:44:46.000 You know, where it's an aberration, where it's a very, very rare thing.

01:44:49.000 I mean, that's the ultimate goal, right?

01:44:52.000 Is that we reach a point in our society where we do not care if someone's gay.

01:44:57.000 We do not care if you're a girl. 1.00

01:44:59.000 We do not care if you're a boy. 0.95

01:45:00.000 And we're not mad if you're not attracted to us.

01:45:04.000 I mean, that would be a wonderful thing, right?

01:45:07.000 If we get to a point where people are just comfortable in their own skin.

01:45:12.000 You mean this craziness?

01:45:13.000 Like, where is it eventually going to lead us?

01:45:15.000 Yeah, I mean, culturally, across the board, whether it's male versus female, whether it's trans versus straight, all of this, gay versus straight, whether, you know, progressive versus conservative, I would love it if we got to this point with all this chaos and calamity and arguing back and forth. 0.58

01:45:34.000 It would be fantastic if we can get to a balance point.

01:45:37.000 Yeah, no, I agree.

01:45:38.000 And I do think we're coming up to that point because more and more I see people are saying that they're not okay with this.

01:45:46.000 In terms of the things I write about, people reach out to me and say, you know what, I'm so glad you said that.

01:45:50.000 I agree with you.

01:45:51.000 Even the response to wrong speak, I really thought that people were going to lose their minds in terms of the things that we said.

01:45:56.000 But, you know, it's been very positive feedback.

01:45:59.000 So I think more people than you might think are actually on board with, you know, Wanting to come to a middle ground.

01:46:07.000 And they're not okay with this, the extreme craziness that we're seeing.

01:46:11.000 So I think that's a good sign.

01:46:12.000 It's just a matter of waiting it out.

01:46:14.000 I hope you're right.

01:46:15.000 And I hope that we understand why things get extreme.

01:46:21.000 And that as human beings, we can look at it with compassion and say, like you were saying, like women that are so angry against men.

01:46:30.000 It's not just because for no reason.

01:46:32.000 Something had to happen to them.

01:46:34.000 Like I had a friend.

01:46:36.000 And he was not an attractive man. 0.98

01:46:39.000 And over the time that I knew him, he became more and more resentful to women to the point where he would just openly say fucked up, misogynistic things about women. 0.97

01:46:52.000 And it was weird to watch, but it was one of those things where I was like, oh, I see. 0.99

01:46:56.000 He associates women with pain.

01:46:58.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:46:59.000 And he associates them with just wanting his money or trying to fuck him over. 1.00

01:47:04.000 And this is his perception. 1.00

01:47:05.000 This is how he looks at women.

01:47:07.000 Like, oh, okay.

01:47:08.000 I get it.

01:47:09.000 Yeah.

01:47:09.000 Which is sad, you know.

01:47:10.000 And in that case, women, obviously, not all women are like that.

01:47:13.000 Just like not all men are the men that these women have encountered in life.

01:47:17.000 And you can't generalize from one person to everybody.

01:47:21.000 No, you can't.

01:47:22.000 But when we look at it with compassion, I mean, hopefully the healthy people, the people that aren't in that state of anger and resentment, that they look at it with compassion, they go, oh, okay, I see why this woman would write that tweet. 0.99

01:47:39.000 She's met a bunch of fucked up, shitty dudes, probably male feminists. 1.00

01:47:44.000 Right? 1.00

01:47:45.000 Yeah, and that she doesn't need to be mobbed over her tweet either. 0.99

01:47:48.000 Trust no men.

01:47:49.000 Yeah.

01:47:50.000 Or man. 1.00

01:47:51.000 Yeah, that kind of shit. 1.00

01:47:52.000 It's like, okay, I get where that's from. 1.00

01:47:55.000 I just think there's entirely too much conflict out there.

01:47:58.000 Yeah.

01:47:59.000 But, you know, I think our society almost thrives on it.

01:48:02.000 I would say the media definitely thrives on it.

01:48:04.000 It's fun!

01:48:05.000 Because if you're not angry and upset about something, what are people going to do?

01:48:09.000 Yeah, I mean, look at Twitter.

01:48:11.000 I was going to say social media, too. 1.00

01:48:13.000 Facebook's the best because Facebook, those assholes are allowed to write fucking... 1.00

01:48:18.000 Forever. 1.00

01:48:18.000 Paragraphs. 1.00

01:48:19.000 Paragraphs of bullshit. 1.00

01:48:20.000 I swear, do they have jobs, some of these people? 1.00

01:48:22.000 They do, they're right at work.

01:48:23.000 Because you click on the more, you click on the more thing, and there's way more.

01:48:27.000 Way too much.

01:48:28.000 You think there's just going to be two lines, but no, it's like six pages.

01:48:31.000 Yeah, I think that that is a real problem.

01:48:34.000 And I think one of the more unique things about Twitter is that it limited you to 140 characters.

01:48:39.000 And then people complained, so they gave you 280. I feel that's too much sometimes.

01:48:43.000 Too much!

01:48:44.000 280's too much!

01:48:45.000 I can't read all that, sorry.

01:48:47.000 As a comic, 140 was great because it made you really...

01:48:54.000 It made you really invest in the economy of words.

01:48:56.000 You really had to make sure that you got your point out as quickly as possible.

01:48:59.000 It's great for joke writing.

01:49:03.000 It's a good way to really trim down the fat in your jokes.

01:49:08.000 But it's not a good way to express ideas.

01:49:11.000 One of the good things about Twitter is they have this thing where you can reply to your tweet and then reply to that, reply to that, and they all fit in together.

01:49:21.000 I like that. 0.88

01:49:22.000 But I don't like it sometimes, because sometimes people just fucking drone on and on and on. 0.88

01:49:27.000 This is a first draft, too. 1.00

01:49:31.000 Edit this shit, bitch. 1.00

01:49:34.000 There's too much nonsense in there. 1.00

01:49:36.000 Do you get that with your DMs, too, that people just send you a massive block of text?

01:49:40.000 I don't read them.

01:49:41.000 I barely skim through my DMs.

01:49:43.000 I can't.

01:49:44.000 I follow too many people.

01:49:46.000 One of the good things is I get a lot of interesting things in my feed.

01:49:49.000 One of the bad things, I'll get 500 DMs a day.

01:49:52.000 I can't do that.

01:49:53.000 I saw someone wrote a tweet that said, if you don't write two sentences for the DM, I'm not going to read it.

01:50:00.000 And that was their pinned tweet.

01:50:02.000 Wow, that's aggressive.

01:50:04.000 I read as many as I can.

01:50:06.000 I just can't read them all.

01:50:07.000 There's no way.

01:50:09.000 It's like you can't reply to everybody either.

01:50:11.000 People say, what come you never replied to my app mentions?

01:50:14.000 I can't.

01:50:14.000 And you can't like all of their stuff either.

01:50:17.000 No.

01:50:17.000 It's too many.

01:50:18.000 It's too many.

01:50:18.000 Plus, I don't want to read people's stuff.

01:50:21.000 It's just, I don't have, you don't have the time and also you're running the risk of encountering too much negativity.

01:50:28.000 And then also things that you disagree with that you want to, like, oh, I should say that. 0.99

01:50:33.000 That's bullshit. 0.99

01:50:33.000 That's not even true. 0.99

01:50:34.000 I'm going to tell this guy, this is what actually happened.

01:50:37.000 You don't even know history.

01:50:39.000 I don't want to do that.

01:50:41.000 I don't want to argue with people about random facts or science or anything.

01:50:45.000 I'll look at it and I'm like, okay, this is...

01:50:48.000 But have you been mobbed before?

01:50:50.000 You have.

01:50:50.000 Oh yeah!

01:50:51.000 What's been the worst?

01:50:52.000 Oh, one of the big ones was about Trans Fighter.

01:50:56.000 I remember that, yeah.

01:50:57.000 Yeah, that was a hilarious one.

01:50:58.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:50:59.000 Because I'm like, you guys can kiss my fucking ass. 1.00

01:51:02.000 You're out of your mind. 1.00

01:51:03.000 You guys are out of your mind if you think that a man who has been a man for 30 years And has taken female hormones for two is the same. 1.00

01:51:12.000 You put Brock Lesnar, chop his dick off and put him in a dress, that guy's gonna maul through the women's heavyweight division like nothing you've ever seen in your life. 1.00

01:51:20.000 Because we're built different. 1.00

01:51:21.000 And it's just a fact.

01:51:23.000 And anyone who tries to argue that is crazy.

01:51:25.000 And there are certainly standouts in terms of women who are much more muscular, higher bone density, particularly African-American women have very high bone density. 1.00

01:51:37.000 But there's a different shape to their hips.

01:51:39.000 There's the size of the hands, the size of the shoulders.

01:51:44.000 Things are different.

01:51:46.000 Also, the imprinting of years and years of testosterone.

01:51:51.000 There was a great article.

01:51:58.000 Yeah.

01:52:00.000 Yeah.

01:52:06.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:52:12.000 She's talking endocrinologist, you idiot. 1.00

01:52:13.000 She's talking about the science. 0.99

01:52:14.000 And she's also talking about the science of one of the things they talk about is how women, you know, or trans women, once they transition to being a woman, they're basically biologically almost exactly the same as women.

01:52:25.000 She was like, no, not only that, but the bone density is retained by taking estrogen, which is what the problem with women when they have osteoporosis is They're losing estrogen. 1.00

01:52:38.000 They lose bone mass.

01:52:40.000 Well, the estrogen actually helps you retain bone mass.

01:52:43.000 So when a man transitions to a woman and then starts taking estrogen, it's actually helping retain the bone mass that he would have lost by not having testosterone.

01:52:51.000 And then on top of that, reaction times.

01:52:53.000 The reaction times are several tenths of a second faster in general for women than they are for men rather than they are for even professional athlete women.

01:53:02.000 So all these...

01:53:03.000 All these variables that need to be taken into consideration when you're allowing someone to do a sport.

01:53:09.000 And we're not just talking about bike racing.

01:53:11.000 We're not talking about, you know, something where someone...

01:53:15.000 Non-contact.

01:53:15.000 We're talking about the most contact.

01:53:18.000 We're talking about fucking fighting. 0.98

01:53:21.000 There's benefits that certain people have. 0.99

01:53:24.000 There's physical attributes.

01:53:26.000 There's variables inside the genders, right? 1.00

01:53:30.000 There's some men that have gigantic physical advantages over other men.

01:53:34.000 And all of those...

01:53:46.000 We're good to go.

01:54:08.000 There's nothing you can do about that.

01:54:10.000 But one thing we can do is we can keep women from getting beaten up by men. 0.99

01:54:14.000 And men who transition to being women. 1.00

01:54:17.000 And if you think that's fair, you're fucking crazy. 0.99

01:54:19.000 It's just not. 1.00

01:54:21.000 It doesn't make any sense. 0.92

01:54:22.000 And the arguments for it are so shitty and they're so riddled with progressive speak. 0.96

01:54:29.000 That they're trying to pretend that this is a woman now. 0.98

01:54:32.000 This is not a woman. 1.00

01:54:33.000 This is a trans woman.

01:54:34.000 This is a male.

01:54:35.000 She has a Y chromosome.

01:54:37.000 She transitioned to being a female.

01:54:40.000 Now she's a trans woman. 0.55

01:54:42.000 And if you choose to fight her and you're a woman and you know that she's a trans woman, I'm totally fine with that.

01:54:48.000 But that was not what was going on here.

01:54:50.000 What was going on here was this woman... 1.00

01:54:53.000 Who used to be a man for 32 years transitioned to being a woman and then didn't tell anybody. 0.99

01:54:59.000 And fought two different women who thought they were fighting a woman and got fucking smashed. 0.98

01:55:03.000 Badly injured, yeah. 0.99

01:55:04.000 I was watching it.

01:55:05.000 It was like watching a man fight a woman. 0.97

01:55:07.000 That's what I was watching.

01:55:08.000 I was like, this isn't like particularly...

01:55:10.000 She wasn't particularly skillful.

01:55:12.000 It wasn't like she had like some...

01:55:14.000 Unbelievable background in judo, like Ronda Rousey or something like that.

01:55:18.000 It wasn't that.

01:55:19.000 You were just literally watching a former man beat up women who never had the benefit of 30 years plus of testosterone in their body.

01:55:29.000 What do you think the solution should be then?

01:55:31.000 I don't know, but I was fascinated by watching the mob come after me for that one.

01:55:36.000 I was like, this is adorable.

01:55:39.000 What was fascinating about it was, here's something that I... I mean, I'm not a real expert in physiology or endocrinology, but I'm a martial arts expert.

01:55:52.000 I've been doing it my whole life.

01:55:54.000 I know the difference.

01:55:55.000 I've trained with women world champions and watched them get mauled by men who are not very good.

01:56:04.000 It's just a fact.

01:56:05.000 Especially when it comes to striking.

01:56:07.000 You know, there's more of a gap in jujitsu or the gap rather closes in jujitsu because skill and technique Take precedent over physical strength.

01:56:17.000 But goddammit, when it comes to striking, you could get a man who's been doing it for six months but just happens to have a lot of fast twitch muscle fiber and just knows how to hit things hard. 0.99

01:56:29.000 And he'll fuck a woman up. 0.99

01:56:31.000 It's not good. 1.00

01:56:32.000 Especially when it comes to kickboxing and kicking and punching.

01:56:35.000 There's so many advantages.

01:56:38.000 And to say that those advantages are immediately cut out of the picture as soon as you transition to being a woman and within two years you should be able to fight women in a cage and not tell them that you're a woman. 0.90

01:56:49.000 I was like, this is insanity.

01:56:51.000 So that was the big mob that came after me.

01:56:54.000 I think it's interesting that in this, because it is pitting people who would call themselves feminists against transgender activists, and it's basically women are being lost in the mix, so you can't say certain things like, on what planet would it be okay for someone who is born male to fight a woman?

01:57:11.000 But in this case, because this person who's born male identifies as female, you can't call that into question.

01:57:17.000 And also, there was a real problem in Texas, the other way, where they're What they were doing is being prejudiced against trans people to the point where they wouldn't let a girl transitioning to being a boy wrestle with boys.

01:57:32.000 They made her wrestle with girls while she was taking testosterone. 1.00

01:57:36.000 It's like, you guys are out of your fucking mind. 0.99

01:57:38.000 You're not even recognizing that she wants to compete with boys, which is a disadvantage for her or him now. 1.00

01:57:46.000 Let him compete with boys because this is a different thing.

01:57:51.000 But then even then, a lot of boys are saying, well, look, I'm not taking testosterone.

01:57:55.000 I just have testosterone.

01:57:57.000 What if her testosterone is higher than my testosterone because she's taking exogenous testosterone? 1.00

01:58:03.000 This is kind of crazy.

01:58:04.000 Yeah.

01:58:06.000 There's a lot of new ground that's going on here.

01:58:10.000 My concern as a martial arts expert is when you are using ideology to push this progressive notion that a trans woman is exactly the same as a woman, 0.98

01:58:26.000 and you're getting women beat the fuck up because of it. 1.00

01:58:29.000 And this is what I felt, this is what I saw. 0.97

01:58:32.000 And they wouldn't have to be hard for like a year or two, but then it all went away.

01:58:35.000 What's the worst thing they said about you?

01:58:37.000 I don't know.

01:58:37.000 I didn't read it.

01:58:38.000 I didn't read it.

01:58:39.000 I read a little bit of it and then I was like...

01:58:41.000 It really didn't even hurt my feelings.

01:58:42.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:58:42.000 Because I was like, this is so stupid. 1.00

01:58:44.000 It's like... 1.00

01:58:46.000 Do you know a woman who's got a hand that looks like that? 0.57

01:58:49.000 Find one.

01:58:50.000 Find one.

01:58:51.000 Because if I took estrogen, I'd still have these.

01:58:53.000 And that's not fair.

01:58:55.000 It's just not.

01:58:55.000 I don't care.

01:58:56.000 I don't care what anybody says.

01:58:57.000 It's just not.

01:58:58.000 I mean, even a woman with big hands. 1.00

01:59:00.000 They're not that big.

01:59:01.000 They're not like Brock Lesnar's hands.

01:59:03.000 There's a difference. 0.99

01:59:04.000 There's a fucking difference. 0.99

01:59:06.000 There's a difference in the shape of the jaw. 0.99

01:59:07.000 There's a difference in...

01:59:08.000 There's so many differences in men to women.

01:59:13.000 And there's so many women that used to be men that transitioned to being women that are now dominating these sports. 0.99

01:59:19.000 And these women feel like they're being fucked over, like weightlifting. 1.00

01:59:22.000 There was this Australian weightlifter who's a trans woman who's competing as a woman and is fucking breaking records left and right. 1.00

01:59:30.000 And everybody's like, this is crazy. 0.98

01:59:31.000 She's an inspiration.

01:59:33.000 No, she's a guy! 1.00

01:59:35.000 She used to be a guy, and now she's breaking these women's records. 1.00

01:59:38.000 Like, what are we doing?

01:59:40.000 This is crazy.

01:59:41.000 Yeah.

01:59:41.000 But to play devil's advocate...

01:59:43.000 Please do.

01:59:44.000 Didn't Fallon Fox get beaten by... 1.00

01:59:47.000 Ashley Evan Smith. 1.00

01:59:48.000 Yeah, because she sucks. 1.00

01:59:50.000 That's really what it is. 0.99

01:59:52.000 Ashley Evan Smith is good.

01:59:53.000 Okay.

01:59:54.000 She's so good.

01:59:55.000 Listen, there's a lot of women that would beat a lot of men. 1.00

01:59:59.000 Yeah.

02:00:00.000 Women who are not taking anything... 1.00

02:00:03.000 Mm-hmm.

02:00:03.000 Who would beat a lot of men.

02:00:06.000 And it's happened.

02:00:09.000 Jermaine Durandamy, who was a super high-level women's MMA fighter, won the 145-pound world title, beat Holly Holm.

02:00:20.000 She fought a man in a kickboxing bout and knocked him out. 1.00

02:00:24.000 It's because she's a fucking beast. 1.00

02:00:26.000 She's really good and really technical, super strong, and just much better than a guy who wasn't on her level. 1.00

02:00:34.000 But she's just super exceptional.

02:00:37.000 But there's also women who fought men who were world champions who got knocked out.

02:00:43.000 There was a woman from... 1.00

02:00:45.000 God damn it. 0.98

02:00:46.000 She was a female boxer from Holland. 0.99

02:00:50.000 Her name escapes me right now.

02:00:51.000 She was a woman that they were always trying to match her up with Christy Martin.

02:00:57.000 Back when Christy Martin, the coal miner's daughter, was a famous... 0.99

02:01:00.000 God damn it. 0.95

02:01:02.000 Why can't I remember her name? 0.99

02:01:03.000 But she was an elite female boxer and she got knocked out by a man. 1.00

02:01:08.000 It was ugly.

02:01:09.000 And the guy she knocked out, the guy who knocked her out really wasn't very good.

02:01:12.000 Yeah.

02:01:13.000 He just clanged her on the jaw and KO'd her. 1.00

02:01:16.000 But it was disturbing to watch.

02:01:18.000 Yeah.

02:01:19.000 But somehow it wasn't disturbing when Jermaine Durand and he knocked out the guy.

02:01:22.000 Then it was like, yeah, go girl.

02:01:24.000 Yeah.

02:01:26.000 You're always going to have people that are higher level skill.

02:01:31.000 And Ashley Evans-Smith, who's competed successfully in the UFC, she's very tough.

02:01:35.000 And she beat Val Foxx. 0.73

02:01:37.000 And this isn't, you know...

02:01:40.000 I'm not against Fallon Fox fighting women that want to fight her. 1.00

02:01:44.000 I'm not against that.

02:01:45.000 I'm not against women fighting men.

02:01:48.000 I'm not against people riding bulls.

02:01:50.000 I'm not against people bungee jumping. 0.98

02:01:52.000 I should be able to do whatever the fuck you want. 0.98

02:01:55.000 Don't pretend that you're exactly the same as a biological woman. 1.00

02:02:00.000 Why the fuck do we have tests then? 0.99

02:02:02.000 What is a chromosome? 0.97

02:02:05.000 What are genetics?

02:02:06.000 What is it?

02:02:07.000 Is it all...

02:02:08.000 We're just going to give it all away for ideology?

02:02:11.000 And what about women? 1.00

02:02:13.000 This idea of being completely progressive and...

02:02:17.000 And looking at things and promoting equality, that's wonderful, but are you promoting equality for women?

02:02:23.000 What about the women?

02:02:24.000 What about a woman like you? 1.00

02:02:25.000 What about a woman who's slight and thin? 1.00

02:02:28.000 What are you supposed to do?

02:02:30.000 How much do you weigh?

02:02:31.000 I'm not going to tell you.

02:02:33.000 You're very thin.

02:02:34.000 I'm thin though, yeah.

02:02:34.000 Okay, let's pretend you're in the 105 pound weight class.

02:02:37.000 Do you feel like you can compete with a 105 pound man?

02:02:41.000 No. 0.86

02:02:41.000 That seems ridiculous, right? 0.86

02:02:44.000 Well, it seems to me that we have to accept the fact that there's some physical differences when the consequences are being gravely injured.

02:02:53.000 And this is what martial arts are all about.

02:02:55.000 I'm trying to hurt you.

02:02:57.000 And I shouldn't have natural physical advantages that come from having a Y chromosome and 30 plus years of testosterone in my body.

02:03:04.000 That just seems to be obvious to me.

02:03:06.000 And I didn't understand why.

02:03:08.000 But that was...

02:03:10.000 A hill that I was ready to die on. 1.00

02:03:12.000 I was like, you guys can fuck off. 1.00

02:03:13.000 And good for you for that. 1.00

02:03:15.000 But you see that they've kind of left you alone now, right?

02:03:17.000 Because I do this!

02:03:18.000 Because I can say things like this about it.

02:03:21.000 Because it makes sense.

02:03:23.000 And because when other people hear about it that are rational people, they go, what?

02:03:27.000 What's happening?

02:03:28.000 Wait a minute.

02:03:29.000 That's a guy?

02:03:29.000 She was a guy for 30 years?

02:03:31.000 Like, that's not right.

02:03:32.000 And the vast majority of people who even support trans rights, including friends of mine who are trans, were with me on this.

02:03:40.000 They're like, yeah, that's crazy.

02:03:42.000 Have you heard the term TERF? Am I surf and turf?

02:03:47.000 No.

02:03:48.000 Turf as in T-E-R-F is trans exclusionary radical feminist. 1.00

02:03:52.000 So this is a new slur that's being used against women who will say trans women are not women because they were not born women.

02:04:01.000 Wow. 0.88

02:04:02.000 Trans, exclusionary, radical feminists. 0.96

02:04:04.000 So you would kind of be a turf in this situation because you're advocating for women and the safety of women and saying that people who are born male but identify as female are not the same as people who are born female.

02:04:16.000 Yes.

02:04:17.000 But that doesn't mean that I'm discriminatory.

02:04:20.000 No.

02:04:21.000 But it's a word that they use to try and discredit you.

02:04:24.000 Good luck.

02:04:25.000 Have fun with that.

02:04:26.000 I don't care.

02:04:27.000 See, this is the problem.

02:04:28.000 But the thing about this is I don't care because I really don't have any hate in my heart.

02:04:32.000 And I don't have any discrimination in my heart.

02:04:34.000 I don't think most of us do.

02:04:36.000 Well, I can't speak for everybody.

02:04:38.000 Some do, but...

02:04:39.000 Some do, I'm sure.

02:04:40.000 I'm sure if you were a trans... 1.00

02:04:41.000 Look, if you have a thousand people and a hundred of those people are a fucking asshole to you, it's going to feel like a lot of people, right? 1.00

02:04:49.000 So if you're a trans person and you're... 1.00

02:04:52.000 I mean, I've seen horrific things written to trans people online.

02:04:55.000 I've seen it.

02:04:56.000 I've seen it.

02:04:56.000 I understand there's real discrimination.

02:04:58.000 But I understand that you have to understand...

02:05:01.000 You have to appreciate who your actual allies and people who are rational people who actually care about you and who disagree with you on one very particular thing.

02:05:12.000 And this is the only place where I disagree.

02:05:14.000 It's combat sports.

02:05:15.000 And it's because it's my area of expertise.

02:05:17.000 I've been doing it since I was a kid.

02:05:19.000 Like you can't tell me that there's not differences.

02:05:23.000 I've watched men and women fight my whole life.

02:05:26.000 I know there's a difference.

02:05:28.000 And I know from talking to endocrinologists and people who are experts in the human anatomy that there's just physiological differences that are insurmountable.

02:05:39.000 They just are.

02:05:39.000 I've seen men and women hit the bag.

02:05:41.000 It's a very different thing.

02:05:42.000 Yeah.

02:05:43.000 I mean, I get where people are coming from, the people who are upset by this, because I think by acknowledging that someone was not born the sex that they identify as, it's almost like pointing out to them that they're different.

02:05:54.000 But they are different.

02:05:55.000 Well, yeah.

02:05:56.000 They are different.

02:05:57.000 But I can see how that can be upsetting for someone who identifies as the opposite sex.

02:06:04.000 Yeah.

02:06:04.000 You know what?

02:06:05.000 I can see how it's upsetting if you're short and you want to identify as being tall.

02:06:10.000 What if I wanted to pretend that I was seven feet tall?

02:06:12.000 And you'd be like, Joe, you're 5'8". 1.00

02:06:14.000 I'm like, are you an asshole? 1.00

02:06:16.000 Why are you saying I'm a 5'8"? 1.00

02:06:17.000 But you are. 1.00

02:06:18.000 So if I say you're a trans woman, which means you were born a man, you have a Y chromosome, you're like, well, you're a piece of shit. 1.00

02:06:25.000 How are you pointing that out? 1.00

02:06:26.000 Well, that's what you are.

02:06:28.000 It's not that you're negative.

02:06:31.000 Are people who are dwarves, is it evil to say that a dwarf is a dwarf or a little person or whatever phrase you want to use?

02:06:40.000 Are we supposed to acknowledge that there's an issue?

02:06:44.000 Like if someone is born with a handicap, are you supposed to, is that a fact? 0.98

02:06:48.000 Are you allowed to discuss it as a fact?

02:06:50.000 If you have autism, am I allowed to bring up the fact that you are on the spectrum?

02:06:55.000 Or am I supposed to ignore it?

02:06:57.000 Is it discrimination if you talk about reality?

02:06:59.000 If someone has a deformity, are you allowed to discuss it?

02:07:03.000 Or is it discrimination to discuss reality?

02:07:06.000 Because what are we doing with our language?

02:07:08.000 What are we doing with the way we describe the actual things that exist in the world?

02:07:14.000 And if we're not describing them in accurate terms because we're trying to somehow or another Stop people from getting hurt feelings.

02:07:21.000 What are these feelings based on?

02:07:23.000 These delusional perceptions of reality?

02:07:26.000 And why are we reinforcing these delusional perceptions of reality?

02:07:29.000 Because it seems to me that this kind of language and this kind of exclusionary...

02:07:36.000 Inability to use certain words and the inability to describe things accurately, correctly, and in many cases scientifically, it hurts everybody.

02:07:45.000 Yeah, I agree with that.

02:07:46.000 I don't think facts themselves are hateful.

02:07:48.000 I think people who use facts to justify discrimination, that's where the problem is and that's where the efforts should be going.

02:07:55.000 Because when you start to deny facts, where does that leave you?

02:07:58.000 Where do you draw the line in that case?

02:08:00.000 Absolutely.

02:08:00.000 But I think there's something that's kind of cool about it.

02:08:04.000 That there are trans people.

02:08:07.000 And what's cool about it is that the world is weird.

02:08:10.000 You know?

02:08:11.000 And I'm not happy that they get a lot of hate.

02:08:16.000 But I'm kind of happy that they exist.

02:08:20.000 I wish they could just be women. 1.00

02:08:21.000 I wish you could just hit a switch and you really wish you were born a woman. 1.00

02:08:25.000 Bam! 0.98

02:08:25.000 You're a woman. 0.98

02:08:26.000 But I suspect...

02:08:27.000 That even if you could do that, some people would rather just be trans. 0.99

02:08:33.000 There's a lot of people that I know that are trans and also have dicks. 1.00

02:08:36.000 And they want to keep the dick. 1.00

02:08:38.000 And they're like, okay, what's going on here? 1.00

02:08:40.000 And you know that you're transphobic if you're a straight heterosexual male and you're not willing to date a trans woman with a dick. 1.00

02:08:48.000 But you know what it is. 1.00

02:08:49.000 It's actually a sexual preference. 0.97

02:08:50.000 For men who will date trans women who are retaining their penis, that's what it's called in the literature, if they decide not to get surgery, it's actually a particular sexual preference. 0.96

02:09:00.000 For the people that are attracted to that particular trans woman. 0.94

02:09:03.000 Yeah, it's called gynandromorphophilia.

02:09:05.000 Whoa! 0.71

02:09:06.000 Someone tell Jim Norton.

02:09:12.000 Nothing wrong with that either.

02:09:13.000 No, nothing.

02:09:14.000 Yeah, nothing wrong with that either.

02:09:15.000 Do what you do.

02:09:16.000 But this is the thing, the difference between a man and a woman, a trans man, a trans woman, and then someone who could actually be a woman.

02:09:27.000 I think we're going to get to a point within, you know, whether it's 100 years or 500 years, where we can use things like the future version of CRISPR or whatever comes down the line next, some scientific innovation that's going to allow people to literally transition.

02:09:44.000 Yeah.

02:09:45.000 I think it's going to happen.

02:09:46.000 Yeah.

02:09:46.000 And when that happens, I suspect they're going to...

02:09:48.000 Say that word again?

02:09:49.000 What was the word?

02:09:50.000 Gynandromorphophilia.

02:09:51.000 It's going to be a bunch of those. 1.00

02:09:52.000 It's going to be a bunch of people like, nah, I'd rather just stay a chick with a dick. 1.00

02:09:56.000 I'll take it. 1.00

02:09:56.000 Yeah, well, gynandromorphophilia is the preference for male to female people who have retained their penis. 1.00

02:10:02.000 Fucking go for it. 1.00

02:10:03.000 Nothing wrong. 0.99

02:10:05.000 It's all good.

02:10:06.000 It's only when you tell other men that you have to conform to this, I think that's where the problem is.

02:10:12.000 I think people should be allowed to be into what they're into.

02:10:14.000 Yes.

02:10:15.000 And the idea that you're transphobic.

02:10:17.000 And I've seen this. 1.00

02:10:18.000 I've seen articles written where they're shitting on men that are not willing to date women with penises. 0.99

02:10:25.000 They call it the cotton ceiling is the other way around when it's a male to female person and women don't want to date them. 1.00

02:10:33.000 Lesbians don't want to date them because they have a penis. 1.00

02:10:35.000 What do they call it? 1.00

02:10:36.000 The cotton ceiling.

02:10:37.000 Because it's like the glass ceiling except it has to do with underwear.

02:10:41.000 Whoa.

02:10:43.000 Jesus Christ. 1.00

02:10:44.000 So lesbians who don't want to date trans women that still have penises. 1.00

02:10:50.000 What a wonderful world we live in. 1.00

02:10:52.000 I like it.

02:10:53.000 I like that this world is weird.

02:10:55.000 I do.

02:10:56.000 This is where I think...

02:10:58.000 I get why people...

02:11:03.000 Would see what I've said and think that it's transphobic.

02:11:08.000 I get, like, who I am.

02:11:10.000 I get that it's a problem.

02:11:12.000 I get just looking at me as a problem.

02:11:14.000 I mean, I'm a cage-fighting commentator, you know? 0.97

02:11:18.000 I'm a dirty stand-up comedian. 0.91

02:11:20.000 I mean, I seem like I would be your enemy. 0.97

02:11:24.000 But people shouldn't assume, right?

02:11:26.000 Like, you're your own person, so you might look a certain way.

02:11:29.000 Yeah, but that's just what people do. 0.99

02:11:31.000 It's the same way a guy looks at a chick with a dick and goes, yikes, what do we got going on here? 1.00

02:11:37.000 I mean, just... 0.99

02:11:39.000 I just think, as me, as an individual, as a human being, one thing I like about it is I like things that are weird.

02:11:48.000 I like things that defy the standard definitions.

02:11:52.000 I'm the same.

02:11:53.000 I think it's good.

02:11:53.000 I think it's more interesting.

02:11:55.000 It's far more interesting.

02:11:56.000 Yeah.

02:11:57.000 It's far more interesting when you talk to a neuroscientist who wears a Playboy t-shirt.

02:12:01.000 Right? 0.99

02:12:02.000 You're a weirdo. 0.98

02:12:03.000 Do you like it?

02:12:04.000 Yeah, it's cool.

02:12:04.000 It's a cool cover.

02:12:05.000 You're a weirdo. 0.90

02:12:06.000 I am a weirdo. 0.99

02:12:07.000 Yeah, for sure.

02:12:08.000 Do you find that relates to your sense of humor, too, though?

02:12:09.000 Because my sense of humor is really dry.

02:12:12.000 And I feel that's part of the way I look at the world and why I appreciate the world the way it is.

02:12:17.000 Oh, yeah.

02:12:18.000 For sure.

02:12:18.000 I embrace the weirdness.

02:12:20.000 I really do.

02:12:21.000 I love it.

02:12:22.000 I love that things are strange.

02:12:25.000 I do.

02:12:26.000 I think it's interesting.

02:12:28.000 I really do.

02:12:29.000 I think everything's interesting.

02:12:33.000 And I try to cultivate that.

02:12:36.000 I really do.

02:12:37.000 I go out of my way to try to look at things with fresh eyes.

02:12:41.000 Especially because I smoke a lot of pot.

02:12:43.000 And so whenever I do that, I kind of always have a new way of looking at it.

02:12:46.000 Like, oh, I never even thought about it that way.

02:12:48.000 But that's one of the things that I really like about marijuana.

02:12:50.000 And I've tried to explain that to people that don't smoke pot.

02:12:54.000 I got a conversation with Ted Nugent about that.

02:12:57.000 And one of the things, because he had this perception that people who smoke pot are lazy and they're ne'er-do-wells.

02:13:04.000 I'm like, dude, I can't have enough jobs. 0.99

02:13:06.000 I do so many fucking things. 0.99

02:13:08.000 You're super high-functioning. 1.00

02:13:09.000 I'm always doing something.

02:13:11.000 I'm not lazy.

02:13:12.000 But I get...

02:13:14.000 The benefit that I get out of it is a benefit that is not often...

02:13:19.000 It's not...

02:13:23.000 It's not often promoted and that benefit is there's something good about being nervous.

02:13:30.000 There's something good about what people call paranoia.

02:13:33.000 There's something good about heightened perspective that is brought upon by psychedelics or by marijuana where you are forced to re-examine what you've taken for granted.

02:13:46.000 And that's what I like about it.

02:13:47.000 And so what I like about...

02:13:49.000 One of the things that I like about Smoke and Pot, besides the fact that I believe it makes me more compassionate, it instills a better sense of community, it makes me more friendly and more loving, and it definitely does that.

02:14:01.000 But it also makes me look at things with fresh eyes and appreciate the weirdness.

02:14:08.000 I genuinely love it when I see some girl... 0.99

02:14:12.000 Do you know who Bailey J is?

02:14:14.000 Uh, yeah. 1.00

02:14:15.000 Trans woman with a giant dick. 1.00

02:14:18.000 She's got pictures of her dick. 1.00

02:14:20.000 I love it! 1.00

02:14:21.000 Is Jamie gonna pull one up right now?

02:14:22.000 I don't think he can.

02:14:23.000 We'll get kicked off of YouTube.

02:14:24.000 But I love it.

02:14:26.000 I like the fact that it's real.

02:14:27.000 It doesn't bother me.

02:14:28.000 I'm happy.

02:14:29.000 I think it's fun.

02:14:30.000 Are you Gynandromorphophilic?

02:14:32.000 No.

02:14:33.000 No, I'm not.

02:14:33.000 But I like the fact that they exist.

02:14:36.000 Yeah.

02:14:36.000 I do.

02:14:36.000 That's acceptance.

02:14:37.000 And I like the fact that people like them.

02:14:39.000 And I like the fact that it makes certain people happy.

02:14:42.000 If it makes them happy or people that are attracted to them happy, I really do like it.

02:14:47.000 I don't like definitions.

02:14:50.000 I don't like...

02:14:54.000 Restrictions, you know?

02:14:55.000 So where people would get an incorrect assumption is my radical stance against this trans woman fighting other women because I recognize it as being unfair. 0.95

02:15:08.000 Well, because there's suppression of the debate as well.

02:15:13.000 It's one thing if you could talk about it openly.

02:15:15.000 Well, it's also something that I'm an expert in.

02:15:17.000 So I'm like, uh-uh, stop. 0.99

02:15:21.000 Don't try to compare this to fucking tennis. 0.99

02:15:23.000 Because even in tennis, it wasn't fair. 0.99

02:15:25.000 But this is a different thing.

02:15:27.000 It's a radically different thing.

02:15:31.000 It's interesting because I heard you talk about this.

02:15:33.000 I don't know if it was your interview with Josh Barnett, but when you first get into the cage, you don't know what the other person is going to be like until you start fighting.

02:15:40.000 And I just imagine if you go in and you don't know that someone was born male, how that's a very big disadvantage.

02:15:47.000 I think there's a propensity for violence that exists in the mind of a man that I just don't know if it's the same in most women.

02:15:57.000 I just think...

02:15:58.000 I don't know how much of that...

02:16:01.000 I don't know if you turn me into a woman, how much of that you would squeeze out.

02:16:05.000 I don't know.

02:16:07.000 But I know there's a switch that men have because I've seen it go off.

02:16:12.000 I've seen... 0.95

02:16:14.000 I've probably seen more people get fucked up in real life than 99.9% of people that have ever lived. 0.88

02:16:24.000 Other than like... 0.99

02:16:26.000 You know, people lived in Roman times and shit, watched people get chopped up by swords. 0.52

02:16:30.000 But people in modern time, like in terms of like fisticuffs, people getting head kicked and beaten down with elbows, I've probably seen more of that than almost anyone that's ever lived. 0.98

02:16:41.000 There's probably a small group of people, like a thousand people on the planet that have seen as many people get fucked up personally as I have.

02:16:49.000 So you date a chunk.

02:16:52.000 You get a sense of what you're seeing.

02:16:55.000 You get a sense of...

02:16:55.000 And you understand there's a...

02:17:00.000 There's a technical violence that women are capable of, for sure. 1.00

02:17:04.000 I mean, especially extreme examples like Chris Cyborg, who's super violent.

02:17:08.000 Or when Holly Holm head-kicked Ronda Rousey and then hammer-fisted her while she was unconscious. 0.99

02:17:13.000 Super violent, but also very technical violence.

02:17:17.000 And then there's...

02:17:19.000 An extreme over-the-top masculine violence that I've seen that's that's even more ferocious There's there's something to it that is it's another level this and and this is not saying that men are better than women This is not this is just I'm saying there's a thing that men do there's a reason why men cause all wars Men cause all wars. 0.97

02:17:44.000 Women aren't fucking suiting up and going into battle and trying to conquer as a giant, you know, million-strong group of women soldiers invading a foreign army. 1.00

02:17:54.000 No, this is not happening. 1.00

02:17:56.000 This is a male behavior.

02:17:57.000 It's testosterone.

02:17:58.000 It is.

02:17:59.000 And it's also, there's something about males, this switch, this violence switch that exists, and it exists in a very dark way. 0.97

02:18:08.000 Women are capable of shooting people and stabbing people and doing all these things. 1.00

02:18:11.000 Don't get me wrong. 1.00

02:18:12.000 I'm not saying that.

02:18:13.000 But it does not happen in the same numbers that it happens with men.

02:18:16.000 It just doesn't.

02:18:17.000 And I think that this is something that also has to be taken into consideration when you're talking about men versus women.

02:18:24.000 Like, it's a different thing.

02:18:26.000 And people who don't think it's a different thing have probably never been punched in the face by a guy, you know, or seen guys punch guys in the face or been around it enough where you realize, like, it's a different thing.

02:18:38.000 You know, I've seen some awesome women fights. 1.00

02:18:40.000 Awesome women fights. 0.91

02:18:42.000 Amazing.

02:18:43.000 Super technical, even very violent. 0.99

02:18:45.000 But goddamn, there's a difference. 0.97

02:18:49.000 It's just not the same thing. 0.98

02:18:51.000 Yeah.

02:18:51.000 No, I would definitely agree with that.

02:18:53.000 And most people would.

02:18:54.000 But if in today's climate, in certain circles, that would be considered transphobic or maybe even sexist.

02:19:02.000 Well, there's also this narrative that women, because they need to be like men, on some level, women have to be as strong as men.

02:19:08.000 And I've seen this, where they will publish pieces saying women are as strong as men.

02:19:14.000 Get out of here with that. 0.99

02:19:15.000 Physically strong as men.

02:19:16.000 But that's not even true.

02:19:17.000 It's not true.

02:19:18.000 Well, it's not only is it not true, it's...

02:19:21.000 You can demonstrate it.

02:19:22.000 Like, scientifically, it's not true.

02:19:24.000 You look at the data in terms of what men have lifted, what they can do.

02:19:29.000 Like, this is this guy, this woman who used to be a man who's now competing in weightlifting in Australia.

02:19:35.000 Like, everybody's going crazy over this one. 0.99

02:19:37.000 It's fucking crazy. 0.99

02:19:39.000 It doesn't make any sense that they're allowing this. 1.00

02:19:41.000 This is so nonsensical.

02:19:43.000 If you want to have trans, the transgender Olympics, go for it. 1.00

02:19:48.000 Do that. 0.69

02:19:49.000 But to try to pretend.

02:19:50.000 Until we come up with some sort of a way, like with CRISPR or whatever we talked about before, where you can actually turn a man into a woman.

02:19:58.000 Turn a woman into a man. 1.00

02:20:00.000 Until it's like real clean, we look at it, we go, yep, we just did the chromosome test, you've got a Y chromosome now, and you've erased 30 years of testosterone, and you know, a man now is built like you.

02:20:12.000 Right?

02:20:13.000 Yeah.

02:20:13.000 Then we're good.

02:20:14.000 Then we're good.

02:20:15.000 Now it's an actual woman.

02:20:16.000 Yeah.

02:20:17.000 Until then...

02:20:19.000 Man, you're dealing with some hardcore variables. 0.88

02:20:22.000 And to be in denial of those variables is silly.

02:20:26.000 And I'm going to stand against it every time.

02:20:29.000 Because I see what it is.

02:20:32.000 It's like a religious ideology.

02:20:34.000 You're purposely ignoring facts.

02:20:37.000 Do you feel like most people in the industry agree with you?

02:20:39.000 Or how do they feel about it?

02:20:41.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

02:20:42.000 Oh, fuck yeah. 1.00

02:20:43.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

02:20:44.000 The people who don't is a minor group.

02:20:47.000 And they're all like super progressive, left-wing, left-leaning.

02:20:52.000 And some of them were scared to talk about it.

02:20:54.000 I was going to say, yeah, because other people aren't as vocal.

02:20:57.000 Well, they just didn't want to get the blowback.

02:21:00.000 That's all it is.

02:21:02.000 But in terms of fighters, it was like 100%. 0.97

02:21:07.000 I mean, Ashley Evan Smith is a fucking beast for taking that fight and even tougher for winning. 0.96

02:21:13.000 But then again, she went to the UFC. She's in a UFC level fighter. 0.99

02:21:17.000 Yeah.

02:21:18.000 Which is, there's a big difference, you know?

02:21:21.000 And what she was, I mean, if you look at like the caliber of competition that she's fought, guys like Raquel Pennington, or girls, excuse me, like Raquel Pennington, Sorry, Raquel.

02:21:32.000 And look at who Fallon Fox was fighting when she was fighting, you know, lower-level competition. 0.99

02:21:38.000 That's a giant leap between Raquel Pennington and someone who is on these amateur circuits.

02:21:43.000 And Raquel Pennington beat Ashley Evans-Smith.

02:21:46.000 Crazy fight.

02:21:47.000 Submitted her with a bulldog choke with like one second to go. 1.00

02:21:50.000 We're screaming.

02:21:51.000 It was nuts.

02:21:52.000 Covered in blood. 1.00

02:21:53.000 It was fucking chaos, right? 0.99

02:21:54.000 But this is like super elite world championship level fighting. 0.99

02:22:00.000 That's the difference. 0.98

02:22:01.000 Yeah, it's just fucking different. 0.97

02:22:04.000 So there was a lot of people that supported me. 0.96

02:22:07.000 But I knew I was right.

02:22:09.000 You know that other people are secretly agreeing with you.

02:22:12.000 Not even secretly.

02:22:14.000 They just didn't want to talk about it publicly.

02:22:16.000 It wasn't that it was a secret.

02:22:18.000 There was no people that were coming up to me, disagreeing with me.

02:22:22.000 Trans people were agreeing with me. 1.00

02:22:24.000 Trans people that I'm friends with were like, that shit is crazy. 1.00

02:22:27.000 That bitch is out of her fucking mind. 1.00

02:22:31.000 It was funny. 1.00

02:22:32.000 And also, in the long run, over many, many conversations about it, people realize, okay, I see your perspective.

02:22:39.000 Like, you're not discriminatory.

02:22:42.000 No.

02:22:42.000 It's just about combat sports.

02:22:44.000 And even about weightlifting.

02:22:46.000 It's like, come on, man. 0.99

02:22:47.000 Imagine if you were a woman and all your life you've been fucking power cleaning. 1.00

02:22:52.000 Through the force of will and determination and your focus and discipline and then some trans woman comes in and just, this bitch is lifting a hundred pounds more than you're ever gonna lift. 1.00

02:23:03.000 And you're like, well, what the fuck? 1.00

02:23:05.000 This isn't fair. 0.99

02:23:07.000 Yeah.

02:23:07.000 You know, like those poor girls in Texas that had to wrestle that girl because they're discriminatory in the opposite way and they won't recognize that this trans girl is a boy or this trans boy is a boy.

02:23:18.000 And they can get injured, too. 1.00

02:23:19.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

02:23:21.000 Yeah, I mean, literally, you're allowing a girl to take steroids. 1.00

02:23:24.000 That's what you're doing.

02:23:25.000 You're saying one girl can take steroids because she thinks she's a boy and we don't think she's a boy, so we'll let her take steroids. 1.00

02:23:31.000 It's like, ugh.

02:23:32.000 Why are you letting her take steroids? 1.00

02:23:34.000 Why are you letting her take testosterone? 1.00

02:23:36.000 Do you know how old that girl was? 0.99

02:23:37.000 I believe 17. Trans boy? 0.98

02:23:39.000 Okay.

02:23:39.000 She won the States two years in a row.

02:23:42.000 Shocker.

02:23:45.000 But you know, by taking testosterone, too, he's sterilizing himself.

02:23:50.000 Yeah.

02:23:51.000 Which is crazy at that age.

02:23:53.000 Yeah.

02:23:55.000 Not to say specifically of that person, but just in general.

02:23:58.000 Well, as a neuroscientist in your understanding of the frontal lobe and the development of...

02:24:03.000 Yeah, you realize your decision-making capability is not fully formed.

02:24:07.000 Not until you're almost 30. That's when people should vote.

02:24:11.000 That's when they should make any sort of important decision.

02:24:14.000 But it's crazy, because do you think a 17-year-old or even a 21-year-old can decide if they want to be sterile for life?

02:24:22.000 No.

02:24:22.000 No, if you gave me a chance at 17 to get a vasectomy, I might have done it.

02:24:25.000 Mm-hmm.

02:24:26.000 Now I'm happy I have kids.

02:24:28.000 But it's an irreversible decision, which is why it gets weird, right?

02:24:35.000 It's like if you decide to sterilize yourself with testosterone, is there any coming back from that?

02:24:40.000 If you start taking estrogen again, will your cycle kick back in?

02:24:44.000 No.

02:24:45.000 Well, once you start taking cross-sex hormones, no.

02:24:47.000 No?

02:24:47.000 No.

02:24:49.000 And it's amazing because parents are saying, well, you know, if that's the decision they want to make, then they should make that decision.

02:24:54.000 And they're okay with it.

02:24:56.000 What's interesting too is the language that we use and that people use in the media now.

02:25:01.000 Like there was a story about a woman who just gave birth.

02:25:05.000 Tell me more, actually, because I thought I was thinking of something, but I think it's something else.

02:25:08.000 She used to be a woman. 1.00

02:25:10.000 She was transitioning to being a man, and she got pregnant.

02:25:15.000 Okay.

02:25:15.000 But became a full man after she gave birth, had her breasts removed, the whole deal.

02:25:23.000 Right.

02:25:24.000 And it was celebrated.

02:25:25.000 Yeah, it was celebrated.

02:25:26.000 As this man gave birth, but it was...

02:25:29.000 Well, not only that, I don't think she breastfed, which shouldn't be celebrated.

02:25:32.000 Like, there's massive amounts of evidence that breastfeeding is super positive.

02:25:39.000 Look at that, full beard, holding a baby.

02:25:43.000 So, clearly, taking the testosterone again, if not taking it while the baby was in the womb, and I'm sure Five years after having a child as a woman.

02:25:55.000 What?

02:25:56.000 Transgender man gives birth to baby five years after having a child as a woman.

02:26:02.000 Okay, so she had a child as a woman, and then she got pregnant again as a man. 0.99

02:26:08.000 That's what they're saying.

02:26:10.000 All right.

02:26:11.000 Okay.

02:26:11.000 What does that mean?

02:26:12.000 What's going on there?

02:26:14.000 Imagine if you were an alien.

02:26:17.000 So I guess it isn't impossible to get pregnant, but if you're straight from pubertal blockers straight onto cross-sex hormones, your body hasn't even really developed. 0.53

02:26:25.000 So in that case...

02:26:28.000 So as a grown-up, it's less likely that you become sterile?

02:26:33.000 Is that the case?

02:26:33.000 I think it depends on how, I'm not an endocrinologist, but I think it has to do with how long you've been on the hormones and probably how old you were when you started.

02:26:44.000 Right.

02:26:45.000 But in this case, I mean, I've seen cases too where trans women will breastfeed, but they're, and the doctors say this is an amazing thing, but they're taking hormones. 1.00

02:26:56.000 So basically those hormones are going to the baby when they're breastfeeding. 0.99

02:27:02.000 Boy.

02:27:03.000 I mean, I even feel bad saying...

02:27:05.000 That seems like child endangerment.

02:27:05.000 I know.

02:27:06.000 I feel bad saying this right now, but...

02:27:07.000 Why?

02:27:09.000 It feels like I'm placing judgment, I guess, on people.

02:27:12.000 You should be placing judgment.

02:27:14.000 Well, you were talking about something that's publicly...

02:27:17.000 Projected.

02:27:18.000 This is something that's in the news.

02:27:19.000 They chose to make this.

02:27:21.000 They chose to be there where their cameras were taking pictures of them.

02:27:24.000 They're proclaiming this.

02:27:25.000 That the other side isn't being presented, too.

02:27:27.000 I think that's part of the problem.

02:27:29.000 What's the other side?

02:27:29.000 Well, the things that we're saying.

02:27:31.000 Yes.

02:27:31.000 Well, this is what...

02:27:32.000 So, what are the other side?

02:27:34.000 What is the other side?

02:27:35.000 Well, the one side being that is progressive and if you identify as a woman and you have a child, then you should, you know, raise that child as if no different from any other woman.

02:27:44.000 But she doesn't identify as a woman.

02:27:46.000 She identifies as a man.

02:27:47.000 So not this person, the person I was talking about who was breastfeeding male to female.

02:27:52.000 You can breastfeed male to female? 0.92

02:27:55.000 Oh.

02:27:57.000 Oh.

02:27:58.000 Wait a minute.

02:27:59.000 But that's not his kid or her kid.

02:28:02.000 Oh boy, we need new words.

02:28:04.000 This is why those gender pronouns, Jordan Peterson was wrong.

02:28:06.000 This is why we need all these separate gender pronouns.

02:28:10.000 All 72 of them.

02:28:12.000 Well, here's the other thing.

02:28:13.000 This male, transgender male, obviously still likes dudes.

02:28:21.000 The one we just saw? 0.50

02:28:22.000 Yeah, because he got pregnant by a guy. 0.97

02:28:26.000 Yeah, so...

02:28:27.000 Stay a chick, bro. 0.99

02:28:32.000 I don't know what to tell you.

02:28:33.000 Do whatever you want to do.

02:28:34.000 But, you know, we should probably take into consideration the idea that maybe this isn't the best thing for that child to be subjected to hormones.

02:28:43.000 No, that's the bottom line.

02:28:44.000 I think whether a parent is trans or not doesn't have a bearing on their ability to parent.

02:28:49.000 So while that trans man was pregnant, did he continue his testosterone therapy is the question.

02:28:55.000 Mm-hmm.

02:28:55.000 Right?

02:28:55.000 That's the question.

02:28:57.000 Woo! 0.99

02:28:58.000 This one says no.

02:28:59.000 That's how they got pregnant. 1.00

02:29:00.000 Oh, so they backed off to have a baby on purpose.

02:29:02.000 No, they got off the testosterone for health reasons and then got pregnant. 1.00

02:29:06.000 Oh! 0.60

02:29:08.000 That's this particular case.

02:29:09.000 Health reasons?

02:29:10.000 Yeah.

02:29:11.000 But I thought it was natural and awesome.

02:29:13.000 It's good for you.

02:29:14.000 That's the other thing too, right?

02:29:15.000 If it is natural, why do you have to have synthetic hormones injected into your body that are not endogenous?

02:29:22.000 Like, they're not even supposed to be in your body.

02:29:26.000 This is so crazy.

02:29:28.000 We live in such a bizarro world. 0.99

02:29:30.000 Seeing a guy with a beard who's fully pregnant with a hairy chest is so fucking odd. 0.97

02:29:35.000 I'd assume he has a hairy chest. 0.96

02:29:37.000 It's also, I mean, it goes against people who say that gender's a social construct.

02:29:41.000 Why do you need to take testosterone then to be the opposite sex? 1.00

02:29:44.000 Well, this is one of the weirder things, the argument that I had. 0.90

02:29:47.000 about with one person online where they said about Fallon Fox they said she's always been a woman and I said even when she was having sex with a woman and got her pregnant and she said yes even then I'm like we're done we're done here we can't we're in make-believe land now yeah well what does that mean you wrote you were a woman when you were having sex with a woman so why not just stay that woman who has sex with women I think it's because people want to have sympathy, 0.92

02:30:15.000 right? 0.61

02:30:16.000 And so it's kind of like that's a nice story to tell.

02:30:18.000 Yes.

02:30:19.000 Even if it's not true.

02:30:20.000 But that's the problem is that you're not dealing with reality.

02:30:25.000 You're into this weird fantasy land that opens you up to massive amounts of criticism from people that might be discriminatory.

02:30:32.000 Instead of saying, yeah, this is problematic and weird and strange and the whole thing is weird.

02:30:37.000 Instead of saying that, saying, no, she's always been a woman. 0.99

02:30:40.000 What the fuck does that mean? 0.99

02:30:41.000 Because it's such a blanket statement, too. 0.99

02:30:43.000 Right.

02:30:43.000 But it's a wonderful thing to do to shut down all rational critique of the situation.

02:30:49.000 It's a wonderful way to do it.

02:30:50.000 She's always been a woman. 1.00

02:30:51.000 Like, really?

02:30:54.000 What does that mean?

02:30:54.000 Well, that's the only way they can win, too, though.

02:30:56.000 Because if you actually enter into a conversation, you have to actually think about your position and actually think of ways to argue with the other person.

02:31:02.000 And that takes effort.

02:31:03.000 Yes.

02:31:04.000 So it's a lot easier just to simply say they're wrong and you can't argue with someone's lived experience.

02:31:09.000 It doesn't just take effort.

02:31:10.000 It's also an acknowledgment of the oddity of the situation.

02:31:14.000 If you're not committed to one side or the other and you're looking at it for what it really is, you really have to go, wow, it's so strange.

02:31:25.000 Be open-minded, be accepting, be completely embracing of all oddities, all strange different variables of the broad spectrum of human sexuality.

02:31:41.000 Be open to all of it. 0.94

02:31:42.000 But also be aware of how fucking weird it is. 0.94

02:31:46.000 Because it is weird. 0.97

02:31:48.000 It's not...

02:31:50.000 You don't have to have hate in your heart to recognize that it's strange to see a guy with a beard breastfeeding. 0.95

02:31:56.000 Right.

02:31:56.000 Yeah.

02:31:56.000 You know, or fully pregnant.

02:31:58.000 It's fucking strange. 0.99

02:32:00.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:32:00.000 I mean, it just is. 0.99

02:32:01.000 But I think if you're a curious person, too, you know, you want to learn more and you want to ask questions.

02:32:06.000 But like in the climate now, you can't even do that, even if your heart is in a good place.

02:32:10.000 Yeah.

02:32:10.000 But it's hard for people to know that your heart is in a good place.

02:32:13.000 It's just part of the problem.

02:32:14.000 When you don't fall in line with the accepted narrative, people think, well, oh, it must be because you're conservative or you're transphobic or homophobic or something wrong, where you're not on board with the way people are thinking today.

02:32:29.000 You're stuck in the past.

02:32:31.000 On the wrong side of history.

02:32:34.000 That's a good one.

02:32:35.000 But it's just, you know, it's hard to fully express your feelings on nuanced issues.

02:32:44.000 Yeah.

02:32:44.000 Well, it takes effort, right?

02:32:46.000 It takes time.

02:32:46.000 And you have to actually think about what is your position.

02:32:49.000 And you actually have to look at the facts and then have a nuanced position.

02:32:53.000 Because I don't think most of these issues, you can't just simply go with one side or the other across the board or simply go with what sounds nice.

02:33:00.000 There's usually a lot of other stuff underlying that that needs to kind of be hashed out.

02:33:04.000 What is your transition from academia to doing what you do now and being able to write things and do podcasts and be free of that sort of career?

02:33:16.000 What has that been like?

02:33:18.000 The process or what led me to do it?

02:33:20.000 Both.

02:33:20.000 The process?

02:33:22.000 Describe what led you to do it.

02:33:23.000 Okay.

02:33:24.000 So I just finished my PhD last year.

02:33:27.000 In the last two years, I realized that academia changed a lot.

02:33:31.000 In two years?

02:33:32.000 And I would say in the four years I did my PhD, it changed a lot.

02:33:35.000 So when I started, there were certain topics that were a little taboo, but you could still ask questions.

02:33:40.000 And I had planned to stay in academia and continue being a sex researcher.

02:33:43.000 I love sex research.

02:33:45.000 But I realized as time went on that you couldn't ask important questions anymore.

02:33:49.000 And especially when it comes to gender, sex differences, and gender dysphoria.

02:33:54.000 So at the time, with regards to the debate on kids with gender dysphoria, every single mainstream news piece in left-leaning outlets was saying, young kids should transition.

02:34:06.000 That's the best thing for them.

02:34:08.000 And so you'd see all this coverage of young kids who had transitioned to the opposite sex, and their parents were, you know, elated, the kids were, you know, doing so well, apparently...

02:34:17.000 But from a scientific perspective, that's not what the research shows.

02:34:21.000 As I said, most kids will grow their feelings, so it's best to just wait and see.

02:34:25.000 And so I wrote an op-ed about that.

02:34:28.000 And at the time, I wrote it and I sat on it for probably about six months trying to decide whether I should really try and get it published because I knew that people were going to be really upset, even though I was just talking about the scientific literature.

02:34:40.000 And I asked my colleagues, what do you think?

02:34:42.000 And they said to me, I said, should I wait until I have tenure to publish this?

02:34:46.000 And they said, even if you have tenure, it's not going to protect you nowadays.

02:34:50.000 So, you know, I was lucky.

02:34:52.000 My mentors have always been very supportive of looking at facts and looking at the truth.

02:34:57.000 And don't worry about whether it's politically incorrect or not.

02:34:59.000 Just say, when you do a study, just present what you found.

02:35:03.000 Don't worry about how people are going to take it.

02:35:05.000 But not everyone is like that, especially even in the hard sciences now.

02:35:09.000 If you publish, I mean, it won't even get published now if you find things that are controversial because journals don't want to have to deal with that.

02:35:16.000 The institutions don't want to have to deal with that.

02:35:18.000 So I made the decision to publish that op-ed and then from there I said, well, I'm going to see where this journalism thing can take me.

02:35:25.000 And so now I say whatever I want.

02:35:27.000 Well, that sort of behavior and that thought process on their side is such a weakening of the foundation of critical thinking.

02:35:37.000 And it also comes at the same time as these platforms like podcasting and YouTube that allows a person like you or like Jordan Peterson to now disconnect and have a far larger audience.

02:35:53.000 Although it is scary, there is quite a bit of censorship going on with some of those platforms.

02:35:57.000 With YouTube?

02:35:58.000 Yeah.

02:35:59.000 Yeah, YouTube likes to...

02:36:01.000 They have the cute thing they do.

02:36:03.000 They demonetize things.

02:36:04.000 They'll probably demonetize this podcast, for sure.

02:36:06.000 Yeah.

02:36:07.000 Most likely.

02:36:07.000 If they even let you upload it after.

02:36:09.000 Oh, they'll let us upload it.

02:36:10.000 Okay.

02:36:10.000 But the demonetization, especially since you criticize YouTube, as soon as you criticize YouTube, that's like one of the best ways to get demonetized from one of their videos is to criticize them.

02:36:21.000 Yeah, it's fuckin' squirrely.

02:36:24.000 They also make people, like, if you're subscribed, they don't tell people when videos get posted. 0.90

02:36:29.000 Something like that, right? 0.99

02:36:30.000 They do some weird shit. 1.00

02:36:32.000 I don't pay attention. 0.99

02:36:33.000 Just, I upload it and keep moving.

02:36:35.000 But I have friends who are, their main source of income was YouTube and videos and advertisement.

02:36:44.000 And for them, it was a disaster.

02:36:47.000 Like people that were making a lot of money and then all of a sudden that money was cut down to 30% of what it used to be.

02:36:52.000 And with no clear guidelines.

02:36:55.000 The problem with the guidelines is even if you, like, say if we have a video and they just decide that they don't like the video, You can't really protest it.

02:37:02.000 You can protest it, but then they review it and then they uphold their initial ruling and they don't tell you why.

02:37:08.000 They don't say, well, hey, you called someone a queer or you did this.

02:37:14.000 No, no.

02:37:15.000 They just say, yeah, this is how it is.

02:37:18.000 And it's subjective.

02:37:20.000 Well, it's a problem with being a monopoly.

02:37:22.000 And they're not a monopoly in the fact that there's not other video platforms, but they're certainly the largest by far.

02:37:28.000 Yeah.

02:37:29.000 In terms of, like, user-uploaded video platforms, it's not even a close second.

02:37:33.000 Mm-hmm.

02:37:33.000 Which is kind of weird.

02:37:34.000 It's amazing that they've done it, you know?

02:37:37.000 Mm-hmm.

02:37:38.000 There's nothing remotely like it.

02:37:40.000 I know a bunch of people thought about building one, and I've been contacted by people that are starting up a new one.

02:37:46.000 They want me to join that.

02:37:47.000 Good luck.

02:37:49.000 Good luck.

02:37:50.000 YouTube's so far ahead.

02:37:52.000 It's like, how do you catch up to them?

02:37:53.000 And I don't think they're evil by any stretch of the imagination.

02:37:57.000 And I had a conversation with someone about it pretty recently where she was describing that they're using crude tools.

02:38:06.000 And this is part of the problem with...

02:38:09.000 What is being deemed as censorship is really—they're trying to root out hate speech, and they're doing so with crude tools that will eventually, through AI, get better.

02:38:22.000 Is that it, though, or is it that they're trying to shut down any sort of dissenting points of view?

02:38:28.000 I think they definitely lean hard left.

02:38:31.000 They definitely do.

02:38:32.000 So does Google.

02:38:33.000 They lean hard left.

02:38:34.000 That was proven by the Demore paper and how it was received, the Demore memo.

02:38:41.000 Actually, you know what?

02:38:42.000 Because I was doing YouTube for a bit and then I stopped just because I unfortunately didn't have time because my writing is like my number one thing.

02:38:47.000 But I had one video that the minute it went up, I was talking about science on gender dysphoria.

02:38:53.000 It got demonetized literally like 20 minutes.

02:38:55.000 And I thought, you know, I know what my intentions are and it's really unsettling when that happens.

02:39:01.000 Well, it should be because you're not doing anything hateful.

02:39:05.000 No.

02:39:05.000 And what they're doing is...

02:39:10.000 We're good to go. 0.95

02:39:27.000 A lot of this got started off by people that were really doing fucked up things on YouTube. 0.94

02:39:34.000 And they had to respond.

02:39:35.000 And they had to figure out a way to eliminate that stuff from their platform.

02:39:38.000 And I think once you start censoring, the tendency is to continue and to expand.

02:39:44.000 The tendency is not to back off of that censorship.

02:39:46.000 You're like, you know what?

02:39:47.000 We're just going to allow Holocaust deniers and racists and make your videos.

02:39:51.000 Hey, this is YouTube.

02:39:52.000 This is the Wild West, baby.

02:39:53.000 They're not going to do that because they have advertisers and there's a significant amount of revenue that they get from that.

02:39:58.000 But they don't actually end the conversation, though, because people just get upset.

02:40:02.000 They may not be on YouTube, but people are still talking about these things.

02:40:05.000 Yeah, but they're not on YouTube. 0.99

02:40:06.000 As long as they're not on YouTube, they don't give a shit. 0.98

02:40:09.000 Like, yeah, you're not on YouTube. 0.97

02:40:10.000 Good luck with that conversation on Vimeo.

02:40:13.000 Or wherever you're going to go.

02:40:19.000 It's odd, but it's also...

02:40:22.000 I love it.

02:40:24.000 I love that there's these...

02:40:25.000 Part of me even likes the fact that things are being censored.

02:40:30.000 I really do.

02:40:31.000 Really?

02:40:31.000 I find it fascinating.

02:40:32.000 I don't.

02:40:34.000 I feel like the argument is fascinating because I think...

02:40:37.000 First of all, I think censorship clearly causes I think when you push against something, there's a natural reaction.

02:40:45.000 That reaction is to bolster your defenses and fire back up.

02:40:49.000 And I think there's certainly some of that going on.

02:40:53.000 You can't really quiet ideas entirely, but you do expose your intentions.

02:41:01.000 And you expose these blind spots.

02:41:05.000 That are what we've been discussing all day.

02:41:07.000 There's these political ideology blind spots that people have, these ideological holes that they have in the way they look at things.

02:41:16.000 Well, I think the question is, do you want to solve the problem, or are you trying to just be successful as a business?

02:41:23.000 If you want to solve the problem, I don't think.

02:41:25.000 Suppressing speech and shutting down people who are genuinely just trying to ask questions and have conversations, I don't think that's going to solve things.

02:41:34.000 I don't think they're trying to solve any problems.

02:41:36.000 I think they're trying to make a ton of money, and they're also very liberal, and they think the right thing to do is to suppress certain ideologies they deem harmful or hate speech.

02:41:46.000 You know, I had a conversation with a woman who's a YouTube exec. 0.92

02:41:48.000 She was telling me that Douglas Murray and Sam Harris, they had this podcast that they did online, and Some guy put it up in his playlist, and he got a community guideline strike for having it in his playlist.

02:42:03.000 And I said, how is that?

02:42:05.000 And she said, it's hate speech.

02:42:06.000 I said, it's hate speech.

02:42:07.000 It's not hate speech.

02:42:08.000 I heard that podcast.

02:42:09.000 Yeah.

02:42:09.000 And not only is it not hate speech, you didn't watch it.

02:42:12.000 She didn't listen to it. 0.99

02:42:13.000 She had no idea what the fuck it was. 1.00

02:42:15.000 But she just confidently said it to me, like I was going to just shut up. 1.00

02:42:20.000 Like, you're out of your fucking mind. 1.00

02:42:22.000 You don't even know what you're talking about. 1.00

02:42:23.000 This is hilarious.

02:42:24.000 But it was a person out of pretty high level over there.

02:42:27.000 Yeah.

02:42:27.000 So it's interesting to see that.

02:42:29.000 Like, okay, well, this is the kind of a lack of critical thinking that we're discussing.

02:42:33.000 This is the kind of blind spot that we're discussing.

02:42:36.000 Mm-hmm.

02:42:40.000 Appreciate that this is two intellectuals discussing something that's very complex.

02:42:44.000 And that it was about immigration and about Islam.

02:42:49.000 And those are two things that people don't want to hear.

02:42:52.000 They just go, those two things are off limits. 1.00

02:42:56.000 Unless you're pro-Islam or pro-immigration, you better shut the fuck up or we're going to demonetize you. 1.00

02:43:02.000 And that... 1.00

02:43:02.000 That kind of censorship is fascinating to me. 1.00

02:43:05.000 Because it's not effective.

02:43:07.000 It just makes people go, hey!

02:43:10.000 And then it makes the people on the YouTube side get defensive.

02:43:16.000 And it makes them double down.

02:43:18.000 And you're seeing that.

02:43:19.000 It makes things worse.

02:43:20.000 Yeah.

02:43:20.000 You see that now.

02:43:22.000 I mean, you see it with many people.

02:43:25.000 It's a weird time for ideas.

02:43:29.000 Yeah.

02:43:30.000 How do you feel about being part of the IDW? The international dork web. 0.86

02:43:38.000 I'm the least mentioned, happily the least mentioned person in that group.

02:43:43.000 I'm very happy about that.

02:43:45.000 I don't like being in any groups.

02:43:48.000 Groucho Marx once said, I don't want to be a part of any club that would have me.

02:43:53.000 It's just...

02:43:56.000 Look, I'm very happy to be able to have a platform where I can have people like you on or any of those people, whether it's Brett Weinstein or Eric Weinstein.

02:44:05.000 Stein.

02:44:05.000 Sorry, guys.

02:44:06.000 Brett Weinstein.

02:44:07.000 After Harvey, everybody got real uncomfortable.

02:44:10.000 Yeah, I've spoken to Brett.

02:44:11.000 He's really sweet.

02:44:12.000 He's great.

02:44:13.000 And his wife, Heather, is amazing as well.

02:44:16.000 He'll be on, actually, the next season of Wrong Speak.

02:44:18.000 Oh, cool.

02:44:19.000 Heather Hying, his wife, is amazing, too.

02:44:21.000 She is, yeah.

02:44:22.000 And they were on together.

02:44:24.000 And Sam Harris is a good friend, and I love that guy.

02:44:27.000 He's a fascinating person, as is Jordan.

02:44:30.000 And look, I don't agree with a lot of what Ben Shapiro says, but he's a super nice guy, and I really like him.

02:44:37.000 You saw that thing that happened with that actor.

02:44:39.000 Mark, what's his name?

02:44:40.000 Mark Duplass, is that his name?

02:44:42.000 Got in trouble for tweeting that Ben is a very nice and reasonable person.

02:44:49.000 Yeah, it's a fun time.

02:44:53.000 Ben is really nice too.

02:44:54.000 He's a really nice guy.

02:44:56.000 You know, I like him a lot.

02:44:58.000 This whatever it is, the dark web thing, that's all Eric.

02:45:04.000 Eric Weinstein's idea was to name this and label it. 1.00

02:45:07.000 He loves all that shit. 1.00

02:45:08.000 He loves all that cloak and dagger stuff. 1.00

02:45:10.000 He gets a kick out of it, but he makes some very good points and he's a brilliant, brilliant guy.

02:45:15.000 He is.

02:45:17.000 This idea that we're all joined together.

02:45:19.000 I mean, we all went out and we had a big dinner together like a bunch of dorks and we all got together and we're like this little club.

02:45:26.000 It's kind of fun and we're going to do it again.

02:45:28.000 And we're bringing more people in too. 0.67

02:45:30.000 We're bringing more people into the dork web. 0.86

02:45:32.000 Good. 0.70

02:45:34.000 Some people are resentful that they're not a part of the dork web.

02:45:37.000 I'll tell you some names afterwards, but some people contacted Barry Weiss and were upset that they weren't included in the dork web.

02:45:45.000 I loved Barry's column.

02:45:47.000 It was interesting.

02:45:48.000 Yeah.

02:45:49.000 But the label of it all, I mean, what's interesting is it starts this conversation, right?

02:45:55.000 As to why is it even necessary to have this dark web, and what's the function of this dark web, and what is the dark web doing really?

02:46:02.000 Like, what is, you know...

02:46:04.000 And there was an article today where someone was calling it problematic and saying that it's mostly right leaning people, which is absolutely not true.

02:46:11.000 Sam Harris, very left.

02:46:13.000 Brett Weinstein, fiercely progressive.

02:46:16.000 Eric, very left.

02:46:18.000 I'm way more left than I am right.

02:46:21.000 The very few right-wing ideas that I hold on to, they're very small.

02:46:26.000 The vast majority of my positions on things side with people on the left.

02:46:33.000 Vast majority.

02:46:35.000 Ben Shapiro's very right.

02:46:37.000 But he's reasonable, you know, and he's also a young guy, you know, conservative, religious.

02:46:45.000 But he's also extremely intelligent and reasonable.

02:46:49.000 We've talked to him.

02:46:51.000 And he has himself disavowed some of the things that he said.

02:46:58.000 And he's himself criticized his own words.

02:47:01.000 And he wrote a whole column. 1.00

02:47:03.000 Here's a list of all the stupid things I've ever said online. 1.00

02:47:06.000 Because he's a very aware guy. 1.00

02:47:08.000 Very self-aware.

02:47:11.000 I think...

02:47:13.000 I think it's important to have discussions.

02:47:16.000 And I think it's important that when people feel like those discussions are being suppressed, that they talk about that.

02:47:23.000 And I think that's what this whole thing is.

02:47:25.000 Yeah.

02:47:25.000 And I think you're a part of that as well.

02:47:27.000 I was in the column, yeah. 0.93

02:47:28.000 We could use you in the dork web. 0.73

02:47:29.000 Okay. 0.97

02:47:31.000 A woman of color.

02:47:32.000 You do.

02:47:32.000 To prove that you guys aren't all racists.

02:47:34.000 Yeah, I know. 0.99

02:47:35.000 Too much white people. 1.00

02:47:37.000 Goddammit. 1.00

02:47:37.000 I took a 23andMe and I'm hoping I got some black in there. 1.00

02:47:41.000 I'm praying.

02:47:42.000 I'm hoping for you too.

02:47:43.000 Give me some.

02:47:45.000 Give me more than 5%.

02:47:47.000 What is it that you have to have?

02:47:49.000 I think you only have to have like 1 16th Native American to catch a check in some places.

02:47:55.000 I'm not sure what it is in Canada, but something like that.

02:47:58.000 Yeah.

02:47:59.000 Yeah, like if you go fishing.

02:48:01.000 In Canada, in your First Nation, if you have, I don't know what the number is, but you could bring as many fish as you want.

02:48:09.000 But, like, if you, like, I was fishing in Canada in a place where I could only get one walleye a day.

02:48:15.000 I could only get one.

02:48:16.000 But there was some dude next to me who was First Nations.

02:48:18.000 Homeboy was just pulling them in, left and right, and sticking them in a bucket, cleaning up.

02:48:23.000 So you better be hoping on that test then.

02:48:25.000 I'm hoping.

02:48:26.000 I'm hoping and praying.

02:48:27.000 I just want to be discriminated against.

02:48:31.000 1-16th is one great-great-grandparent.

02:48:33.000 Oh! 0.60

02:48:34.000 That's all you need.

02:48:35.000 That's all I need.

02:48:36.000 Somebody.

02:48:37.000 Come on! 0.61

02:48:37.000 Didn't you say you have chimp in your family, too? 0.61

02:48:39.000 Oh, for sure. 1.00

02:48:40.000 Somebody fucked a chimp. 1.00

02:48:41.000 This is what I think. 1.00

02:48:41.000 I think if people evolved from lower hominids, right? 1.00

02:48:45.000 If that's what happened, if you believe all that evolution nonsense.

02:48:48.000 Yeah, nonsense.

02:48:49.000 No one believes that anymore.

02:48:50.000 It's pseudoscience.

02:48:51.000 Yeah, it's a bunch of pseudoscience.

02:48:53.000 But I think that somewhere in my ancestry, somebody went back in for one more shot of the chimp when they probably shouldn't have thought. 0.99

02:49:02.000 Somebody said, ah, who's gonna know?

02:49:04.000 They probably got drunk.

02:49:05.000 Yeah.

02:49:06.000 No judgment.

02:49:07.000 No judgment.

02:49:08.000 Yeah. 0.91

02:49:08.000 And clearly evolution is not, it's not a fucking straight flat plane, right? 0.91

02:49:14.000 It varies. 0.88

02:49:15.000 Yeah.

02:49:16.000 Has to.

02:49:17.000 But you can't deny the influence of it.

02:49:19.000 You know, as some people do.

02:49:21.000 Yeah.

02:49:22.000 Well, I don't know.

02:49:26.000 What do you think about all this dork web stuff?

02:49:30.000 I felt, I mean, the fact that the New York Times covered it gave me a sense of relief because sometimes the things I write, I don't feel like the things I write are that controversial or that offensive, but the response I get sometimes I'm surprised.

02:49:46.000 You say this as...

02:49:47.000 As a journalist.

02:49:48.000 As a journalist.

02:49:49.000 Yes, a science journalist.

02:49:50.000 And as an intellectual, as a person who actually understands what you're talking about.

02:49:53.000 Yeah, especially someone who has studied, especially these certain topics within research.

02:49:58.000 I think I know what I'm talking about.

02:49:59.000 And so when people get really mad, it makes you question, where are we going?

02:50:04.000 So the fact that Barry covered this and that the response was so positive.

02:50:09.000 I mean, people got mad too.

02:50:11.000 Oh, people got mad at her. 0.90

02:50:12.000 She's taking a lot of heat. 1.00

02:50:13.000 Yeah.

02:50:14.000 Yeah, definitely.

02:50:14.000 A lot.

02:50:15.000 Yeah.

02:50:16.000 But I feel a little bit more optimistic because it tells me that people get it, that we have conversations like this and people don't think that we're bigoted or that we're coming from, we have a nefarious agenda.

02:50:30.000 Right.

02:50:31.000 We just want to have conversations and talk about things that aren't being discussed in the mainstream.

02:50:36.000 Yeah, that's where censorship becomes very dangerous if you do silence a lot of these conversations.

02:50:42.000 And right now they're not being silenced, even though they're being demonetized to a certain extent.

02:50:57.000 Mm-hmm.

02:51:07.000 I think it's an incredibly unique time for the distribution of ideas.

02:51:12.000 I don't think there's ever been anything remotely like this in human history.

02:51:17.000 There's never been a time where someone like me can just do something just on a laptop with a webcam and then nine years later, it's this.

02:51:30.000 It's wild. 0.99

02:51:31.000 Fucking nuts. 0.99

02:51:33.000 And I don't even... 0.99

02:51:34.000 I'm aware of it, but I don't even think about it that much, honestly.

02:51:39.000 I just do it.

02:51:40.000 I was excited to talk to you today.

02:51:42.000 I was looking forward to it.

02:51:43.000 I was excited, too.

02:51:44.000 Yay! 0.99

02:51:45.000 We did it.

02:51:46.000 But I don't give it much consideration as far as the impact.

02:51:52.000 Because I think as soon as you do that, it'll slip through your fingers.

02:51:57.000 Like if you think too much about it.

02:51:59.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:51:59.000 Well, I definitely wouldn't say half the shit I've already said today, right? 0.99

02:52:03.000 That's the appeal, though. 0.97

02:52:06.000 The appeal is that you and I, I really believe this, if there was no microphone, we probably would never have this conversation because it's too difficult.

02:52:15.000 It would be too weird.

02:52:16.000 Like, you and I are just going to sit down and just talk to each other.

02:52:19.000 Like, if I just came in and met you and we sat down.

02:52:20.000 Yeah.

02:52:21.000 It would be weird.

02:52:23.000 Like you almost have to have this where people can see it to do it.

02:52:27.000 Because otherwise you'd check your phone, I'd check my phone, get up and go to the bathroom.

02:52:32.000 It's like it would be a normal thing to do.

02:52:34.000 But by putting these headphones on and by having this microphone in front of our face, we lock in.

02:52:39.000 I know that how many million people are going to be watching it. 1.00

02:52:42.000 Oh, fuck love. 1.00

02:52:43.000 And it's more every week. 1.00

02:52:45.000 It's growing in a weird way, like a fucking mold. 1.00

02:52:49.000 It's amazing. 1.00

02:52:49.000 Strange. 1.00

02:52:50.000 But this is the only way we would have this conversation.

02:52:52.000 And it's made me far better at talking to people.

02:52:57.000 And understanding conversations and understanding what they are.

02:52:59.000 And also examining my own speech patterns and the way I communicate and getting better at it.

02:53:06.000 I like how you said you started it just because you wanted to talk to people.

02:53:10.000 I think that's what it should be.

02:53:11.000 It should just be that interest in having a conversation.

02:53:15.000 Well, I used to like doing radio when I was a guest.

02:53:18.000 You know, on certain radio shows, you know, like you do, like, if I was going to go to, you know, Phoenix or something like that, and I would go do stand-up there, I would have to promote it on the radio in the old days. 0.92

02:53:31.000 And I would get there, and I would get there early and, you know, smoke a joint beforehand, drink a cup of coffee, get in and start talking shit and having a good time and laughing. 0.61

02:53:40.000 I'd be like, that'd be fun to have a radio show, man. 0.96

02:53:42.000 You know, just go in there and just talk and have fun.

02:53:45.000 But the problem was, to me, it was like always the censorship.

02:53:48.000 I was like, oh, you gotta censor yourself.

02:53:50.000 Then I started doing the Opie and Anthony show.

02:53:52.000 And Opie and Anthony had a show on, you know, first it was XM, then it became Sirius, and And then they split up.

02:54:00.000 But when I would do that, it was Opie and Anthony and Jim Norton.

02:54:05.000 I was like, this is the best!

02:54:06.000 This is so fun!

02:54:08.000 And the way they did it, credit to them, the way they did it was different than any radio show I'd ever been a part of.

02:54:15.000 Because there was no structure.

02:54:17.000 At all.

02:54:17.000 They would just bring comics in.

02:54:18.000 It would just be me and Ari Shafir and Bill Burr and Joey Diaz and all these guys. 0.99

02:54:24.000 They would just come in and hang out and talk shit. 0.93

02:54:27.000 There was no structure at all. 0.98

02:54:29.000 It was just Anthony is such a smart and funny guy and Opie would sort of run the thing and Jim was there and they would just let everybody talk and I'd be like this would be amazing.

02:54:39.000 You could just come in and hang out and have fun.

02:54:42.000 And then Then I started doing a podcast after that.

02:54:47.000 But it was because of that.

02:54:49.000 And then Anthony did a thing called Live from the Compound.

02:54:52.000 He calls his house The Compound.

02:54:53.000 And he did this thing in his basement where he had a green screen.

02:54:56.000 And he did his own show.

02:54:58.000 And he did karaoke while he was holding a machine gun. 1.00

02:55:00.000 He's fucking crazy. 1.00

02:55:01.000 Anthony's like a legit gun nut. 1.00

02:55:03.000 But he had a studio that he built in his basement with legitimate equipment.

02:55:08.000 And I went, oh.

02:55:09.000 And that inspired me.

02:55:11.000 And that is literally what started me off to do a podcast, is seeing that he had set this up in his basement. 0.97

02:55:18.000 And I was like, well, just fucking start doing it. 0.93

02:55:21.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:55:22.000 Wow.

02:55:23.000 Yeah.

02:55:24.000 I was gonna say the same thing I feel the wrong speak the fact that I can see people being mobbed and I can think okay I wonder what they're like and I can just ask them yeah yeah like is that what it's like for you see someone you think I just want to talk to them oh yeah Yeah,

02:55:40.000 especially someone in a controversial position like Jordan.

02:55:44.000 When I first met Jordan, it's like when he was just starting to get some attention online and I wanted to talk to him.

02:55:53.000 I was like, well, what is going on here?

02:55:55.000 And why is everybody so upset at you?

02:55:57.000 And I've never met anyone in all of my life who is so purposely misrepresented by other people than Jordan.

02:56:06.000 Yeah.

02:56:07.000 I've never seen it before.

02:56:08.000 It's amazing to see intelligent, articulate people clearly lying about his positions and not even understanding that by doing that they're strengthening him.

02:56:24.000 You're not going to lie to the point where people are going to really think that your position is correct and all these things that Jordan has said.

02:56:37.000 That somehow or another you misheard them or the whole world misheard them.

02:56:41.000 You're misrepresenting his positions and that just makes all the people that are siding with him realize he's right.

02:56:49.000 It strengthens him.

02:56:51.000 They literally don't understand that they are his publicists.

02:56:56.000 They are helping.

02:56:57.000 They are proving his point and to the point where he's selling out.

02:57:01.000 He sold out Gigantic 5,000 seat theaters.

02:57:07.000 He's selling them out all over the world.

02:57:10.000 Just talking.

02:57:11.000 It's crazy. 1.00

02:57:12.000 He's making millions of dollars because of them being stupid. 1.00

02:57:16.000 It's fucking amazing. 1.00

02:57:18.000 It's really amazing. 0.98

02:57:20.000 And all of it came out of him putting his foot down In opposition to the very same things that you experienced that forced you to leave academia.

02:57:31.000 This misrepresenting of reality that seems to be going...

02:57:36.000 And I think it's fueling the... 0.86

02:57:39.000 It's certainly fueling the dork web. 0.83

02:57:41.000 But on top of that...

02:57:43.000 Because people are seeing that they can't trust what they're being told.

02:57:47.000 Yeah.

02:57:47.000 They are.

02:57:49.000 Yeah.

02:57:50.000 They can't trust what they're being told and they understand there's other conversations to be had out there.

02:57:56.000 There's an article that I tweeted today that was really interesting.

02:57:59.000 I was like, wow, this is crazy.

02:58:01.000 It was talking about long-form podcasts and the ability that long-form podcasts have to allow people to have rational civil discourse.

02:58:16.000 Instead of just... 0.99

02:58:18.000 Getting on these fucking CNN shows and yelling at each other for three minutes. 0.99

02:58:21.000 Or sometimes you'll get a panel where everyone just agrees with each other. 0.99

02:58:25.000 Yes.

02:58:25.000 Or the panels are crazy, too.

02:58:28.000 How the fuck are you going to have nine people talking at the same time? 0.99

02:58:31.000 That is crazy. 0.98

02:58:32.000 It's hard to do when I do podcasts with two other people.

02:58:36.000 It's hard.

02:58:36.000 Well, it's entertainment.

02:58:38.000 But it's not a good way to discuss topics.

02:58:41.000 Long-form conversations are really the only way where you can get a good sense of where someone stands on a position and how they think.

02:58:53.000 I get a chance to see you, and a lot of people are going to get a chance to see you today, how you think about things, what your thought process is.

02:59:01.000 And if there's holes in that thought process, they get exposed.

02:59:05.000 Yeah.

02:59:05.000 And I think also with issues that are more complex, you can talk about all the different nuances to that issue.

02:59:12.000 Because if you just simply have your talking points, if you do a standard interview that's, say, seven minutes long, it's going to be very, very sparse in terms of what you're saying.

02:59:23.000 Yeah, I mean, there's not a single thing we discussed today that wasn't 15 minutes long, at least.

02:59:30.000 Right?

02:59:31.000 Yeah, and you can't really condense that.

02:59:32.000 I mean, you could condense it down, but you lose a lot of the information.

02:59:35.000 And also you feel like you didn't do it justice.

02:59:39.000 Like, I can't do those panel shows because I feel like there's no way I'm going to be able to do anything justice.

02:59:45.000 There's no room, especially now.

02:59:48.000 Well, people play it up too.

02:59:49.000 They know that they're there for the entertainment value.

02:59:51.000 So it's more about being upset at what someone's saying than having some real understanding.

02:59:56.000 Right.

02:59:56.000 It's also about barking out your talking points in as ferocious a manner as you can so it can appear that you're winning.

03:00:03.000 Yeah.

03:00:04.000 Yeah.

03:00:05.000 It's exhausting.

03:00:05.000 But you're a nice guy, too, though.

03:00:06.000 You're not going to come and attack somebody.

03:00:08.000 I definitely don't want to do that.

03:00:12.000 When I have people on, even someone that I think I'm going to disagree with, I just want to see how they think.

03:00:20.000 And some people get mad.

03:00:22.000 They go, oh, dude, you morph your opinions based on whoever's on the show.

03:00:26.000 That's not what I do.

03:00:27.000 But what I do do is I let people talk.

03:00:30.000 And I try to see their point of view, and I try to expand their point of view.

03:00:34.000 So if they say something, they go, oh, so what it is is that this, and I want them to keep going.

03:00:40.000 I want to see the landscape of their thought process.

03:00:44.000 I don't want to see a tiny garden.

03:00:47.000 I don't want to see a little potted plant.

03:00:49.000 I want to see the whole thing.

03:00:51.000 I want to get a sense of why do I disagree with them? 0.99

03:00:54.000 Am I fucked up? 0.99

03:00:55.000 Maybe it's me. 1.00

03:00:56.000 Maybe it's them.

03:00:58.000 But that's how it should be, too.

03:00:59.000 I don't think people should be stuck in their opinion.

03:01:02.000 No matter how right you think you are, I think you should always be open to changing your mind.

03:01:06.000 I think so, too.

03:01:07.000 But I think that's one of the rarest qualities when it comes to discourse, is the ability that people have to abandon ideas that they've supported in the past.

03:01:17.000 Because what does that mean, then, if you're on one side and everyone in your life thinks this way?

03:01:22.000 What does it mean if you don't think that way?

03:01:24.000 Yeah.

03:01:25.000 Well, are the ideas you?

03:01:28.000 Or are you you?

03:01:29.000 And the ideas are just things that you're examining?

03:01:33.000 Yeah.

03:01:33.000 That's what it should be.

03:01:35.000 But for most people, including me, most of my life, that was not the case. 0.99

03:01:38.000 If I had an idea and if I supported that idea, I'll fucking fight you. 0.97

03:01:43.000 I'm right and you're wrong. 0.95

03:01:45.000 So what changed then?

03:01:48.000 Doing this podcast has changed the way I talk to people.

03:01:53.000 It changed the way I look at life.

03:01:54.000 I've talked to so many smart people.

03:01:56.000 I mean, I've had 1,100...

03:02:00.000 1,200.

03:02:03.000 1,200 podcasts plus all the MMA ones.

03:02:08.000 There's so many conversations.

03:02:10.000 And through those conversations, I've gotten at least not a formal education, but an understanding of things that I never had before.

03:02:19.000 Across a lot of subjects, too.

03:02:21.000 Yeah.

03:02:21.000 And through that, I think I've understood...

03:02:27.000 I've come to understand not just how I think about things, but why I've had roadblocks and conversations before, and speed bumps, and I've learned.

03:02:39.000 If you examine yourself and your own thoughts, you're sure to learn, hopefully.

03:02:46.000 Yeah.

03:02:47.000 And I think it also can help if you look at the other side, it can help you figure out why you believe what you believe too.

03:02:54.000 Because you can look at them and say, okay, I still don't agree with you and this is why.

03:02:58.000 But I think if people aren't even willing to look at the other side and consider why they might be wrong, how do you really know?

03:03:04.000 Yeah.

03:03:04.000 And then you also run into some people that...

03:03:09.000 They don't really have opinions.

03:03:11.000 They have these things that they've adopted.

03:03:13.000 Like slogans.

03:03:15.000 Yeah.

03:03:15.000 They've gotten these things and they've decided this is what my side supports, so I'm going to just spout this out and this makes me seem like I'm a good team player.

03:03:23.000 And then the thing about podcasts though, when you're sitting down for three hours, you go, why do you think that?

03:03:30.000 Like, what's going on there?

03:03:32.000 And then they start talking about why they think that, and then it all falls apart.

03:03:36.000 And then you realize that they don't even know why they think that.

03:03:39.000 Yeah.

03:03:40.000 And they probably never even thought about it before.

03:03:42.000 They've just been saying what they've been saying for so long.

03:03:45.000 Right.

03:03:45.000 Because it sounds nice.

03:03:46.000 Yeah.

03:03:48.000 They love it.

03:03:49.000 It's a sport.

03:03:50.000 I mean, there's idea sports.

03:03:52.000 And idea sports are arguments.

03:03:54.000 Arguments are so oftentimes idea sports.

03:03:57.000 Yeah.

03:03:58.000 Politics, too, to some degree, I think.

03:04:00.000 Oh, yeah.

03:04:00.000 For sure.

03:04:02.000 But the politics are just so flavored by money.

03:04:05.000 The problem with that version of idea sport is lobbyists and special interest groups and different people that are pushing you to get in the office because you're going to change laws and force things through.

03:04:18.000 That's the trickiest of all idea sports and also the most shallow.

03:04:22.000 I mean just think about presidential debates and speeches and those are the most shallow discussions in terms of the actual reality of who that person is.

03:04:33.000 Who is that person?

03:04:34.000 Imagine if you were dating someone and every time you went on a date with them it was like a presidential speech. 1.00

03:04:40.000 You're like, who the fuck are you? 1.00

03:04:42.000 I don't even know who you are. 1.00

03:04:43.000 You don't display any humanity.

03:04:45.000 I bet that would be kind of interesting, though.

03:04:46.000 Yeah, for sure.

03:04:47.000 You could probably write a book about that.

03:04:48.000 But that's what we want in leaders, right? 1.00

03:04:51.000 We want someone who's full of shit who makes us feel better. 1.00

03:04:55.000 Yeah, comforting. 1.00

03:04:57.000 Yeah, that they're speaking like a leader.

03:04:59.000 You know?

03:05:01.000 It's weird.

03:05:02.000 It's weird that we like these patterns.

03:05:04.000 The presidential speaking pattern is a very, very strange one.

03:05:11.000 Yeah.

03:05:12.000 It's soothing, though.

03:05:15.000 Yeah.

03:05:15.000 I guess in a way, right?

03:05:17.000 Yeah.

03:05:19.000 In a way, it's soothing because we want a big daddy.

03:05:21.000 We want a big daddy to take care of us. 1.00

03:05:24.000 Tell us everything will be okay.

03:05:25.000 But as you get older, that makes less and less sense. 1.00

03:05:28.000 I'm 50, and so if a new president was 45, I'd be like, that bitch don't know shit. 1.00

03:05:34.000 What the fuck does he know? 1.00

03:05:36.000 He only been living 45 years. 1.00

03:05:38.000 Shit. 1.00

03:05:39.000 But when you're 30 and the president's 70, you're like, well, he makes sense. 1.00

03:05:44.000 He's an established person.

03:05:46.000 He's a man of reason.

03:05:47.000 But is it the age difference or is it your own maturity? 0.98

03:05:51.000 Well, there's a lot of old dummies, for sure.

03:05:53.000 There's a lot of dummies who just survived, because we nerfed up the world for them.

03:05:58.000 Yeah, it's your own maturity.

03:06:00.000 It's also the amount of time that you have to examine ideas. 0.98

03:06:03.000 See, if I worked in a coal mine, I probably would not have the time to sit around all day and think shit through.

03:06:10.000 There's a great luxury that you have when you do this for a living, that you get a chance to communicate with people. 0.98

03:06:18.000 Over and over and over again.

03:06:20.000 And it'll be another podcast tomorrow.

03:06:22.000 There's another podcast the next day.

03:06:24.000 Every day I'm looking at a new person and talking to a new brain and trying to see how it goes on in there.

03:06:30.000 What's behind the eyes.

03:06:32.000 Figure it out.

03:06:33.000 Yeah.

03:06:34.000 Is that why you like it?

03:06:35.000 This length?

03:06:37.000 You know what?

03:06:38.000 Everybody told me not to do this.

03:06:40.000 This was the fun...

03:06:41.000 Like Ari Shafir famously told me, you gotta edit your podcast.

03:06:45.000 I go, why?

03:06:45.000 No one's gonna listen to it for that long.

03:06:47.000 So they don't listen. 0.99

03:06:49.000 I don't give a fuck. 0.99

03:06:51.000 I'm like, I'm just going to do this. 0.98

03:06:52.000 He's like, you should edit it.

03:06:54.000 I'm like, why?

03:06:54.000 Well, there's parts in it that are not good.

03:06:56.000 I go, yeah, those parts you're going to have to either skip over or just not download it. 0.99

03:07:01.000 I don't give a shit. 0.96

03:07:02.000 The nice thing about Longform, though, too, if people know it's not edited, they trust it a bit more. 0.99

03:07:07.000 Yes!

03:07:08.000 Yes.

03:07:09.000 Yeah, there's definitely that.

03:07:11.000 Yeah, like that.

03:07:14.000 Yeah, all that.

03:07:16.000 That's in there.

03:07:18.000 It's character.

03:07:18.000 That's who you are.

03:07:19.000 That's who you are.

03:07:21.000 There's no way you could free ball an entire three hours.

03:07:25.000 Well, Sam Harris can do it.

03:07:26.000 He's pretty good at it.

03:07:27.000 Yeah.

03:07:28.000 Super articulate guy.

03:07:29.000 With practice.

03:07:30.000 Well, you've been doing this a long time.

03:07:31.000 You're good.

03:07:32.000 Well, thank you.

03:07:33.000 You're good at it, too.

03:07:34.000 Thank you.

03:07:36.000 We just did three hours.

03:07:37.000 Is there anything you would like to say or is there anything you don't think we covered?

03:07:45.000 I guess the only thing I'd say we just launched our first season of Wrong Speak.

03:07:49.000 The second season will be starting in the fall.

03:07:51.000 Now how are you doing when you're saying seasons?

03:07:53.000 So we did three for the first and we're going to do another cluster of three or four for the next season.

03:07:56.000 But why are you calling them a season?

03:07:58.000 Because it's one group of episodes.

03:08:00.000 And one group about particular subjects?

03:08:02.000 No.

03:08:03.000 So next season we're going to do one on political correctness and comedy.

03:08:07.000 There's going to be one on academic mobbing.

03:08:09.000 And then there's going to be another one that's going to be a surprise.

03:08:12.000 Oh, so you plan them out way in advance.

03:08:14.000 Yeah.

03:08:15.000 We do a bit more of a, it's kind of more of a structure, like a story.

03:08:18.000 It's not a long form thing.

03:08:20.000 It's a bit more of a, more production in there.

03:08:24.000 I've mostly heard you do other people's stuff.

03:08:28.000 Yeah, probably.

03:08:29.000 So you're doing a lot.

03:08:30.000 I do a lot.

03:08:32.000 Well, I'm not even sure how I found out about you.

03:08:35.000 I'm sure I found out about you online, but I don't know what it was that led me to one of your interviews.

03:08:41.000 It was probably the Google memo, I think, when I wrote that column defending James Damore's memo, because I think that's when we first started being in contact.

03:08:50.000 Yeah.

03:08:51.000 Yeah.

03:08:51.000 But yeah, I do a lot of stuff.

03:08:54.000 So I have a weekly column for Playboy.com, monthly column for The Globe and Mail, which is Canada's national newspaper, co-host on Wrong Speak, the podcast, and I'll be doing hopefully lots and lots more stuff going forward.

03:09:06.000 And hopefully we'll do this again.

03:09:07.000 I hope so.

03:09:08.000 This has been so much fun.

03:09:09.000 I'm going to totally fangirl now and tell you I've been watching you as an MMA color commentator forever.

03:09:13.000 So this has been so cool.

03:09:15.000 Well, I thought it was really cool, too.

03:09:17.000 I really enjoyed talking to you.

03:09:18.000 Tell people how they can find your social media and all that jazz.

03:09:22.000 I'm at DrDebraSo on Twitter and Facebook, DrDebraWSo on Instagram, and then you can check out WrongSpeak at WrongSpeak.

03:09:30.000 And all major podcasting platforms, iTunes Play.

03:09:33.000 We did it, Debra.

03:09:34.000 Yeah.

03:09:35.000 Thank you.

03:09:35.000 Thank you so much.

03:09:36.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - July 26, 2018

Joe Rogan Experience #1147 - Dr. Debra Soh

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