The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1171 - Nick Yarris

00:00:04.000 Three, two, one.

00:00:07.000 Stir it up, Nick.

00:00:08.000 We're live.

00:00:10.000 Hello, everyone.

00:00:11.000 Hello, everyone.

00:00:12.000 Put the ear cups on and cheers, sir.

00:00:15.000 Oh, man.

00:00:16.000 Thank you, Joe.

00:00:16.000 Thanks for being here, man.

00:00:17.000 Yeah, thank you for bringing me out here, man.

00:00:19.000 I know we meant to do this before, but I hope now, with all this good energy between us, we can do this properly for your audience.

00:00:26.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:00:28.000 Listen, man, to say that you've had a crazy experience in this life is one of the most understated things a person could ever say.

00:00:36.000 I mean, where do we begin, right?

00:00:40.000 Let's tell everybody your story.

00:00:42.000 So you were wrongfully committed of murder.

00:00:45.000 You spent 22 years on death row before you were exonerated by DNA evidence.

00:00:55.000 Hello everyone.

00:00:56.000 My name is Nick Yarris and I was, as Joe said, convicted and sentenced to die for a rape and murder I didn't commit at the age of 21. In 1981, a woman named Mrs. Craig was murdered in Delaware.

00:01:13.000 I had never met the woman.

00:01:15.000 I was in prison on unrelated charges, and I stupidly made up a story to try and get out of those charges.

00:01:21.000 The police soon realized that I was a liar, and they fabricated the charges around me then.

00:01:28.000 So it's ironic that in a few days you're going to Upper Derby, Pennsylvania, and that's where the murder happened, really, basically.

00:01:36.000 Linda May Craig was leaving her job at 4.05 p.m. 0.96

00:01:40.000 on December 15, 1981. She's going home.

00:01:42.000 She gets abducted.

00:01:43.000 I don't know any of this, but I tried in desperation to get out of a lie that this officer put on me.

00:01:49.000 I got pulled over in a stolen car.

00:01:51.000 The cop beats me up.

00:01:52.000 He puts charges on me.

00:01:53.000 I'm facing life imprisonment and I'm a junkie because all of my life I was destroyed by what happened to me at the age of seven.

00:02:01.000 I had my head beaten by a man with a rock in his hand after he sexually assaulted me. 0.99

00:02:08.000 And I did all the stupid things that people can do in the aftermath. 1.00

00:02:11.000 I kept it a secret and I let it foster all the anger in me. 0.97

00:02:15.000 I became very aggressive as a child and I ended up in trouble all the time.

00:02:20.000 And when I was in prison on these unrelated charges to the murder, I stupidly fell into that mindset of desperation of trying to get out of it.

00:02:29.000 So the police put a prisoner in the cell next to me.

00:02:32.000 He said I confessed to him.

00:02:34.000 I was given a three-day trial.

00:02:36.000 I was sentenced to death and put on death row.

00:02:39.000 And then, stupidly, I escaped from prison in 1985 and end up on the FBI's most wanted list.

00:02:47.000 How did you get out? 0.53

00:02:49.000 I was being transported to court and the sheriffs were being cool with me at first.

00:02:54.000 They were talking about what was going on in Philly.

00:02:57.000 They were two nice guys, like 68, 67. And we drove five hours from one of the hardest prisons in America called Huntington.

00:03:07.000 And I left there after spending two years of my first two years in silence.

00:03:13.000 So if you opened your mouth, they would come in and beat your head in.

00:03:16.000 So I was so glad to get in the car because my mom was waiting in my lawyer's office because they were going to give me a review of my trial because they withheld so much evidence.

00:03:26.000 So I was eager to go to court and it was the coldest day of 1985, February 15th.

00:03:33.000 We stop at a gas station in Exton, Pennsylvania.

00:03:37.000 And as I got out of the car, the officer driving pulled past the cubicles.

00:03:43.000 Now, we all got out of the car and ran over to the cubicle together, and I went in and started peeing.

00:03:48.000 And the officer's holding the door for me, and my eyeglasses start fogging up.

00:03:53.000 You know what I mean?

00:03:54.000 Because you go from the freezing cold to the warm to the cold, your eyeglasses.

00:03:58.000 So all I know is I turn around and I come out, and he has the door like that, and I put my head down, go under his arm, and I turn left and go back to the car.

00:04:07.000 And the dude smoking a cigarette doesn't know that his partner went into the cubicle to piss.

00:04:12.000 And as I'm running back to the dude, he pulls his pistol out and point-blank shoots at me, Joe, like pow! 1.00

00:04:19.000 And as it went past my face, I was like, oh shit! 0.99

00:04:22.000 I hit the ground. 0.99

00:04:23.000 I ran and he followed me with the gun.

00:04:26.000 I could feel it like I was waiting for him to blast me, you know?

00:04:29.000 Why did he shoot at you?

00:04:30.000 Because he thought I overpowered his partner.

00:04:33.000 He doesn't know.

00:04:34.000 His testimony at trial was, I turn around, Nick's running at me, my partner's down or gone.

00:04:39.000 I pulled my gun and he runs and I wasn't going to let a death row prisoner run, so I've tried to stop him.

00:04:45.000 I shot.

00:04:45.000 So I run around the corner, I hit the ground, I ripped all the skin off my hands.

00:04:50.000 I run around the corner and I fly towards this restaurant and there's all these people innocently eating dinner.

00:04:57.000 And I'm running right towards the plate glass window because he ain't going to blast me, you know?

00:05:01.000 And I ran like I knew he couldn't shoot and then I shot around the corner and I ran down to a gas station.

00:05:06.000 I tried to steal a car.

00:05:08.000 That didn't work.

00:05:08.000 Then I ran like 400 yards, 400 yards, 400 yards and I hid behind the car I just escaped from.

00:05:16.000 And I was laying in the weeds behind the gas station about 50 yards from them while they were screaming, who was the bigger idiot for letting this happen? 0.98

00:05:22.000 And I was thinking, oh my God, like, what am I doing? 1.00

00:05:25.000 What do I do, Joe?

00:05:26.000 Like, how do I just jump up and say, wait a minute, it was a mistake.

00:05:29.000 You know, they already tried to shoot me in the face.

00:05:31.000 So I go high behind the police station and the next four hours, oh my god, I'm being chased by a helicopter.

00:05:38.000 And he chases me and he pins me and he chases me.

00:05:42.000 And I was so fit that I ran for four hours through the woods without caring what the branches did to my face or nothing, man.

00:05:49.000 I blew out both quads.

00:05:51.000 I did my hamstrings.

00:05:52.000 I ripped my feet open.

00:05:54.000 I ran so hard in terror that I didn't care, man.

00:05:57.000 And I got away, and I made it all the way to Florida, and I was going to leave the country and all this, and I said, I got to go back.

00:06:04.000 How did you get to Florida?

00:06:05.000 I stole a dude's wallet in New York, and I got on an airplane, and I went down to Florida, and I tried to rob a drug dealer, and I tried to do this.

00:06:13.000 I was sitting there, I was so angry, I was going to kill myself.

00:06:17.000 I'll never forget this day.

00:06:21.000 I didn't want my folks to see me in prison handcuffs no more, you know?

00:06:25.000 So I was going to buy a raft and I was going to go out in the ocean and I was going to have one last party with all the foods that I loved.

00:06:31.000 Then I was going to stab the raft, wait for the sharks after I cut my wrist, you know?

00:06:36.000 Then I was going to cap myself and go.

00:06:38.000 Then I said, no, I'm going back.

00:06:40.000 So I turned myself back in.

00:06:42.000 They put me on death row in Florida.

00:06:44.000 And I went back and I faced it, you know?

00:06:47.000 So they beat me for four minutes, man.

00:06:49.000 They broke my face, broke my back.

00:06:52.000 Crushed me, man.

00:06:54.000 Tortured me. 0.92

00:06:55.000 And I thought, I'm going to get you back.

00:06:58.000 You know, for all the days you made me go in a cage and beat some other prisoner while you stood there with a club laughing at me.

00:07:04.000 I'm going to get you back.

00:07:06.000 I'm going to make sure I start being a loving person again.

00:07:11.000 So I'm sitting there in 1985, 1986 with 105 years plus the death penalty. 0.99

00:07:17.000 And I decided, fuck this. 0.99

00:07:19.000 I'm going to be a nice guy. 1.00

00:07:22.000 So I started to learn...

00:07:23.000 Okay.

00:07:26.000 I suffer from aphasia.

00:07:28.000 I had my head beaten in with a rock.

00:07:30.000 What is aphasia?

00:07:31.000 Aphasia can be identified simply in people who have stuttering disorder.

00:07:35.000 Their brain and their vernacular abilities are distorted by a disruption in their brain.

00:07:43.000 Either their brain is functioning too fast or their mouth is functioning too fast.

00:07:47.000 There's a combination of misfiring.

00:07:50.000 And aphasia can be through trauma or through genetics.

00:07:55.000 And aphasia affected my life so much as a young person, I never had the respect to listen to people because I couldn't function, I couldn't articulate, I couldn't speak.

00:08:03.000 When I was at trial, people spoke words that I didn't understand and it frustrated me.

00:08:09.000 And when I tried to speak and I'd stutter, people would be like, duh, duh, duh, come on, retard, what do you got to say? 1.00

00:08:15.000 So, after that beating, well, they beat me for four minutes and they broke my face. 0.94

00:08:22.000 I began practicing speaking to myself.

00:08:25.000 Every day I learned new words and I taught myself how to correctly articulate that word into a sentence beautifully for my own self and myself every day.

00:08:39.000 And then I became very, very good at writing.

00:08:45.000 I began helping other prisoners.

00:08:47.000 I became the most dangerous prisoner that they held because I cared about other men.

00:08:52.000 I wrote to their mothers.

00:08:53.000 I wrote letters to their lawyers.

00:08:55.000 I gave up opportunities for people to write books about me so I could help another innocent man.

00:08:59.000 I did all those things because that's how I got back at them for what they did to me.

00:09:05.000 So, in 1988, I'm sitting in my cell and I read about DNA. And I knew right then I could prove my innocence.

00:09:13.000 So I was the first man in America in February of 1988 to ask for DNA testing to prove my innocence.

00:09:20.000 And they threw away all the autopsy material.

00:09:22.000 And when I discovered new evidence, they destroyed that.

00:09:26.000 And this woman who came to meet me and started visiting me fell in love with me and she believed in me.

00:09:30.000 So, she stood by me and told me that she would be with me Either to the gal who's walk or to the moment I proved my innocence.

00:09:39.000 And for nine years she stood by me, you know?

00:09:42.000 And finally, we found some evidence that was testable in 1995. What was the evidence?

00:09:50.000 It was sperm from a rape. 0.87

00:09:52.000 And it was being sent out here to California to Dr. Edward Blake. 0.98

00:09:56.000 And it broke open in transport and spilled.

00:10:01.000 So, Jackie left me.

00:10:04.000 Had nothing left.

00:10:05.000 And then they put me in a special unit.

00:10:07.000 And they started torturing me.

00:10:09.000 I keep this part.

00:10:10.000 Quiet.

00:10:11.000 I never told this story.

00:10:13.000 It would ruin what happened in Fear of 13. It's now out on Netflix.

00:10:18.000 But they finally closed down the old prison I was in for 12 years where the average rate of survival was only 5. And I was one of the hardest dudes there and I made it.

00:10:30.000 They closed the prison down and they opened up Greene County Supermax and the courts ordered that every prisoner in Pennsylvania be allowed out of their cell for eight hours. 0.99

00:10:39.000 The administration looked at each other and said, fuck that, not the crazy cannibals and not the serial killers, not the dudes that have been assaulting and raping each other. 0.97

00:10:47.000 So they picked 48 of us out and they put us in Pittsburgh in a special penitentiary setting in which we were in a sealed unit. 0.99

00:10:55.000 And they put all these guards in there that weren't allowed to touch other prisoners because they were so violent.

00:11:00.000 And told them, we're giving you the craziest of the crazy.

00:11:04.000 You know, Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lamb was a real man, right?

00:11:08.000 His name was Gary Heidnik.

00:11:09.000 He abducted black women in Philadelphia and put them in a pit under his house and fed one of them to the other survivors because he was building a master race. 0.97

00:11:17.000 He was my neighbor, man. 0.99

00:11:19.000 Like, so they started torturing us and doing all this psychological crazy shit to us where they were feeding us to each other like wolves.

00:11:26.000 So I kept it all quiet until this year when, once again, misfortune fell on my life and I released Monsters and Mad Men, the new book that I was going to give you today.

00:11:35.000 And I thought, you know, I got to tell that story, you know?

00:11:39.000 But it's been so hard to come back from these moments, Joe.

00:11:43.000 It's just like I look at what they did to me and how I went to that moment where the DNA is gone.

00:11:50.000 Jackie leaves me.

00:11:52.000 And so I find that I'm dying from hepatitis C that they did when they infected me of it when they broke my teeth when they beat me.

00:12:02.000 So I asked to be executed.

00:12:04.000 I said, I studied all the world's religions.

00:12:09.000 I read over 9,000 books.

00:12:11.000 I did everything in piety my mother asked me to do while I was in prison.

00:12:17.000 I don't want to die like Dale Carter did with the guards coming to his cell and taunting him, you know, teasing him and listening to a man scream in agony because the bile in his belly is killing him.

00:12:30.000 So I wrote to the courts and I asked to be executed. 1.00

00:12:33.000 I said, fuck it, man. 1.00

00:12:37.000 I want to die as a man I love who can respect himself. 1.00

00:12:43.000 The court intervened and ordered the DNA testing that was going to be done on the evidence expelled.

00:12:51.000 In July of 2003, the DNA test came back and they proved me innocent.

00:12:56.000 So the evidence spilled and they just captured it once it spilled?

00:13:01.000 It was in a box with all this evidence.

00:13:03.000 And Dr. Edward Blake, who did the O.J. Simpson trial DNA, said that there would be challenges to it if he did the DNA in 1999, 1998. In 2003, they had advanced mitochondrial DNA separation so well that he felt confident in his results.

00:13:20.000 So the federal court got involved and said, look, I don't want to have this man executed.

00:13:24.000 I want the DNA done.

00:13:26.000 So they did that.

00:13:27.000 And it was amazing that on the day that I called the lawyers, they revealed the truth to me.

00:13:34.000 I called this lawyer and I'm like, what's going on?

00:13:37.000 He goes, Nick, we got DNA from three separate sources that prove you innocent.

00:13:42.000 And I said, that's amazing, Mike.

00:13:46.000 I'm really grateful.

00:13:47.000 He goes, you know, we used to tell people you're crazy, that we never believed in you.

00:13:52.000 I'm really sorry for that.

00:13:55.000 Man, really?

00:13:57.000 You want to take away my joy now, man?

00:14:00.000 So I was really downcast that the day I called my mother, my brother Mikey was having a seizure at her feet because he was an alcoholic after he fell off the roof and he died shortly after. 0.87

00:14:10.000 So it just went fucking crazy from there.

00:14:15.000 They take me off death row and they put me in a psychological cell and they tell me they can't trust me. 0.95

00:14:22.000 That no human being who has done to them what we've done to you cannot be angry.

00:14:29.000 That if we open this door up and we let you out, you're going to get us.

00:14:33.000 So we're going to leave you until the day they let you out. 0.97

00:14:36.000 We're going to leave you in this cell because we don't trust you not to kill us for what we did to you.

00:14:41.000 What did they do to you?

00:14:45.000 They used to have a thing called Gladiator Day.

00:14:48.000 So the lieutenant will be off on a Sunday. 0.89

00:14:52.000 And the guards who started to come from the Philadelphia area were black. 0.96

00:14:57.000 And they didn't like the guards up in the hillbillies beating on black prisoners. 0.86

00:15:00.000 So a weird thing happened where this lieutenant came up with an idea. 0.87

00:15:05.000 Well, look, let's let the prisoners get this frustration out of you guys. 0.87

00:15:08.000 You pick out the biggest guy and you pick out this guy.

00:15:13.000 So one day I'm sitting there minding my own business and they open up my cell and there's four of them with clubs.

00:15:18.000 You're up. 0.53

00:15:19.000 So I gotta go in the cage and I gotta go and hurt somebody while they stand outside. 0.96

00:15:23.000 And if you don't fight, they're gonna come in and they're gonna beat you worse than you can beat a man or get beaten by one man.

00:15:32.000 So they did all this for their entertainment.

00:15:35.000 Were they ever punished for this?

00:15:38.000 Not until after the riot when one of them testified against the others for the murder and stuff.

00:15:46.000 I watched 11 people commit suicide.

00:15:49.000 I've been stabbed, strangled, beaten senseless.

00:15:53.000 The guards used to taunt me because I was accused of a psychological murder, of going out and stalking this poor woman because she looked like my girlfriend, they said. 0.96

00:16:03.000 So I was never treated like a prisoner.

00:16:05.000 I was treated with deference, the worst word I know in the English dictionary.

00:16:10.000 The way I was treated was so harsh that it was cruel beyond cruel.

00:16:14.000 And yet, All I wanted to do was have enough within me to learn to beautifully speak so that on the day that they executed me, I could tell them how much I cared about myself.

00:16:28.000 That was more important to me than living because somehow when you suffer like I have suffered, your head cracks open and you have a hypersensitivity to life.

00:16:45.000 So that when you touch the human beings, you never forget the 14 years no one was allowed to touch you.

00:16:52.000 You know what? 1.00

00:16:53.000 Fuck this. 1.00

00:16:53.000 I ain't crying no more. 1.00

00:16:55.000 It's alright, man.

00:16:56.000 There's nothing wrong with crying.

00:16:56.000 No, I just thought about it.

00:16:58.000 You know what, Joe?

00:16:59.000 I do because I feel bad for the heart.

00:17:02.000 You shouldn't feel bad about crying.

00:17:02.000 No, because I look in your arms and your eyes and I see the hurt that I'm causing you for doing this.

00:17:08.000 No, no, no, no.

00:17:08.000 Don't worry about that, man.

00:17:09.000 Alright, well, this is what I know.

00:17:10.000 All I'm doing is trying to imagine what your life has been like.

00:17:15.000 Don't you worry about me at all.

00:17:17.000 I'm harder than life and I'm kinder than love.

00:17:21.000 Secretly, I'm a saint.

00:17:23.000 I never hurt no one.

00:17:24.000 I try my best to be polite every day.

00:17:27.000 And I've had misfortune at every turn.

00:17:32.000 And I'm very sorry that I sit in this chair today after it came about.

00:17:39.000 You see, I believe in good.

00:17:42.000 I believe good is gonna win, Joe.

00:17:48.000 I believe that I had good again almost three years ago when I met my current wife, Laura.

00:17:56.000 See, I had a woman in my life before that who used me and left me here in Los Angeles. 1.00

00:18:02.000 I ended up homeless on the streets here.

00:18:04.000 I was actually living up in this area on the streets because my good friend Noah lives around here.

00:18:10.000 Him and Jason took care of me in my bad times, I call it.

00:18:14.000 So I go back to England.

00:18:16.000 I meet this woman.

00:18:18.000 I fall in love.

00:18:18.000 We have a baby and she's born on your birthday.

00:18:22.000 And I start to believe in hope again.

00:18:24.000 I go do a podcast in England with my good friend Brian from True Geordie and I start to spread my message again and I want to get all these young kids to believe in themselves.

00:18:36.000 Then one day I put the baby down for a nap and I get Laura to lay on my arms because she's sick and we get up 20 minutes later and the baby's dead and I'm coming down the steps with the dead baby and I'm getting, you know, all fucked up again and then people are so cruel that in the village they started, 0.99

00:18:54.000 you know, Maybe the baby was killed by the guy on death row and all this shit. 0.94

00:18:59.000 And I have a stalker ex-wife, Karen, who just won't leave me alone, contacts the police and tells them that I put out a tweet that night. 0.98

00:19:08.000 And it only happened because my good friend Anthony Samandani, who's in the green room, told me the day before my daughter died about a good close friend of his, they lost a baby that day.

00:19:20.000 And so when our baby died, I put out a tweet just saying, you know, appreciate the people in your life because they're so precious.

00:19:27.000 And the police came to our house and humiliated me and wanted to know how I could tweet about something because my clock was nine hours off because I was living on the streets of Los Angeles and my time was still on LA time because Anthony and I are developing a major motion picture about my life.

00:19:45.000 And I told the police, are you crazy?

00:19:48.000 Like, why would I? So, I can't even get a break on the death of my daughter. 0.74

00:19:53.000 Like, that was the moment that the director of the film Fear of Thirteen decided to rip me off for my rights to the film.

00:20:00.000 He decided to rip you off how?

00:20:02.000 He owed me 50,000 pounds from doing the film Fear of Thirteen.

00:20:06.000 He decided to rip you off because he thought you killed your baby?

00:20:08.000 No, he decided to rip me off then, not pay me my money.

00:20:11.000 When I asked him, I needed money to bury my daughter.

00:20:14.000 So I end up in a shouting match with Arthur DeMoulis, the billionaire from Boston. 0.99

00:20:19.000 I promised to get on his plane and come kick his ass over the money we're arguing over because it was crazy. 0.99

00:20:26.000 I'm still confused. 1.00

00:20:28.000 So your child dies?

00:20:31.000 My child dies and everything goes badly.

00:20:34.000 Yeah, SIDS. And everybody that I counted on to have my back.

00:20:39.000 Including director David Sinkton, who promised to pay me for my participation in the film, all then tell me, oh no, I'm not paying you.

00:20:47.000 And I'm like, how can you do this when I need this money to bury my baby?

00:20:51.000 Why did he say he wasn't paying you?

00:20:52.000 Because he said he didn't owe it to me and all this. 0.97

00:20:55.000 I said, why are you crazy?

00:20:56.000 You have a written contract. 0.93

00:20:58.000 So it's the same thing.

00:20:59.000 You know how the entertainment businesses, once they get what they get out of you, that's it.

00:21:04.000 So he just said he wasn't going to pay you no matter what the contract said.

00:21:08.000 Right.

00:21:08.000 So, Arthur Demoulis invested in the film, and he owns most of it.

00:21:13.000 So, I write to Arthur.

00:21:14.000 I call him.

00:21:15.000 I say, Arthur, David's not paying me my money.

00:21:17.000 Can you help me?

00:21:18.000 Because he owned most of the film by that point.

00:21:21.000 So, Arthur gets all annoyed at me.

00:21:23.000 I said, look, man, my daughter just died.

00:21:25.000 I blew up at him.

00:21:26.000 I told him, send me your private jet.

00:21:28.000 I'll come to Boston.

00:21:29.000 We can have a fistfight.

00:21:30.000 You love to fight. 1.00

00:21:31.000 You know, all that shit. 1.00

00:21:32.000 I lose control. 1.00

00:21:34.000 And then the author, out of his grace, sends me some money so we could bury the baby. 1.00

00:21:38.000 But I went through all this terrible shit. 0.99

00:21:40.000 So I said, now I'm going back to America. 0.99

00:21:43.000 So I leave England.

00:21:46.000 I come over here.

00:21:47.000 I got two daughters with Laura.

00:21:49.000 We're over here now in Oregon.

00:21:51.000 And Anthony, my God, I meet this amazing man only because of Muhammad Ali dying.

00:21:58.000 And now he's going to help me make a major motion picture about my life. 0.99

00:22:01.000 So I get away from all that drama of losing the baby and being humiliated by people thinking I would do some shit to a little girl. 0.98

00:22:07.000 I go back and I rebuild everything. 0.98

00:22:10.000 And then I try to go to Canada and they won't let me in.

00:22:14.000 That's crazy.

00:22:14.000 So I can't go do my job there.

00:22:16.000 They won't let you in because you were on death row for 22 years?

00:22:19.000 Yeah.

00:22:20.000 Even though you're innocent.

00:22:21.000 Not only that, I just came from speaking before the United Nations, sitting next to the president and former presidents of Switzerland.

00:22:29.000 And I have a security clearance from that.

00:22:31.000 I worked in a high-profile job in England, going around speaking all over to governments, but Canada holds it against me because I escaped from death row.

00:22:40.000 So I can't enter the country of Canada.

00:22:44.000 Robin Sharma tried to have me come up there and speak for him with his conference.

00:22:48.000 And I had to humiliatingly do it from my home via Skype.

00:22:52.000 It's like I'll never stop being punished for what happened, you know what I mean?

00:22:56.000 But I don't care about that.

00:22:57.000 What really bothered me was that all those things started to befall me and I started losing hope again.

00:23:04.000 So I go and I even tried recently just to have a normal job and give up everything.

00:23:09.000 I'm a beautiful speaker in schools and I go around and try and help people with their education, right?

00:23:15.000 So I was trying to do that the last year with a friend of mine named Wayne Sharp from New Zealand.

00:23:20.000 He has a company called MyVerse and he wants to help children find the correct path.

00:23:25.000 Education is so important.

00:23:27.000 We can't get that going.

00:23:29.000 I decide I'm going to give up everything and just go get a normal job.

00:23:33.000 But that doesn't work.

00:23:35.000 So I'm sitting there and it's Jamie's birthday.

00:23:38.000 I'm angry. 1.00

00:23:40.000 Like, what the fuck? 1.00

00:23:41.000 How could it fall apart again? 0.99

00:23:44.000 So then you contact me after I tweeted.

00:23:47.000 And it all starts again.

00:23:49.000 And I'm back to believing that it doesn't matter how I got in his chair, or it doesn't matter that the man preceding me has everything and I have nothing.

00:23:59.000 I still believe in good.

00:24:01.000 It's called you this time. 0.99

00:24:03.000 And I told you in that message I sent you, I said, fucking hell, Joe, you're going to change my life doing this, man. 0.99

00:24:09.000 You didn't have to do this. 0.99

00:24:10.000 You didn't have to be nice to me.

00:24:14.000 You are.

00:24:14.000 And for that, man, I'm willing to keep going.

00:24:22.000 I can't, I mean, I don't think anybody can imagine what it's like to spend 22 years on death row for something you didn't do.

00:24:31.000 I want you to go back to the night that you got arrested and tell us, because you kind of, there's some tissue right beside you if you want it.

00:24:39.000 Yeah, I'm good, man.

00:24:40.000 I'm done with all that crime.

00:24:44.000 Go ahead, brother.

00:24:45.000 It's just...

00:24:46.000 The night you were...

00:24:48.000 How old were you?

00:24:48.000 20?

00:24:49.000 21?

00:24:50.000 21. 20. I turned 21 before he sentenced me to death.

00:24:54.000 I'm 20 years old.

00:24:56.000 I'm a Philly kid.

00:24:57.000 And I'm high on meth.

00:24:59.000 And the music's blasting.

00:25:01.000 I'm driving through Chester, Pennsylvania.

00:25:04.000 In a stolen car.

00:25:05.000 Yeah, man.

00:25:06.000 Everything in my life is just chaos.

00:25:10.000 I'm fighting with my two brothers all the time and no one has respect for me. 0.82

00:25:16.000 I was ugly.

00:25:18.000 And it's two o'clock in the morning. 0.87

00:25:20.000 I just came from a bar.

00:25:22.000 I go through a stop sign and the next thing I know I saw the lights.

00:25:26.000 I pull over and the beating of my head is out of control.

00:25:30.000 And I'm sitting there, gripped with fear.

00:25:34.000 I took a beat in Philly in December 4th of that same year in which they ripped all my teeth up with a blackjack. 1.00

00:25:43.000 So I was really scared, you know? 0.99

00:25:45.000 I was like, don't move, don't run, don't do nothing stupid. 1.00

00:25:48.000 You took a beating from cops earlier. 1.00

00:25:50.000 Yeah, you know, Philly cops put me in my place because I ran my mouth.

00:25:54.000 So...

00:25:57.000 There I am sitting there and the next thing I know, BAM on the window, BAM! And he rips open the door and a track from Bad Company was playing really loud.

00:26:08.000 And I can't hear or make focus of what he's saying, you know?

00:26:12.000 And the next thing I know, BOOM! Right up out of the car and he's got me on the car and his name is Benny Wright.

00:26:19.000 And he's six foot four and he's got me pressed against the top of the car and he's holding me down and I can't breathe so I start resisting.

00:26:26.000 I popped his arm off and the adrenaline goes, boom, here comes the beast out of me.

00:26:31.000 Because at 6'2 and that age, I was crazy tough, man.

00:26:34.000 I was like off the charts.

00:26:36.000 And so I pushed him back.

00:26:37.000 I remember that.

00:26:38.000 And he couldn't believe it.

00:26:39.000 He pulled out his stick and raised it up and I just snatched it out of his hand and chucked it away.

00:26:43.000 I was looking at him like I was like that zombie guy.

00:26:47.000 And he went furious, man.

00:26:48.000 He pulled out the pistol, and I seen it coming, and I grabbed his hand, and I pushed down.

00:26:52.000 And I had my arms outstretched, and the gun went boom down into the ground like that. 1.00

00:26:57.000 I looked at him, and he put the gun up there, and he said, motherfucker, you almost... 0.99

00:27:01.000 And he puts me in the car. 1.00

00:27:03.000 I'm sitting in the back seat.

00:27:04.000 I'm freaking out, you know?

00:27:06.000 He gets in the car and he's like jumping back and forth in the front seat.

00:27:09.000 Then he waits and he looks at me in the mirror and he grabs the mic and he's going like, shots fired!

00:27:15.000 Officer says shots fired!

00:27:16.000 He looks at me one last time and he goes, help!

00:27:18.000 Help! 0.98

00:27:19.000 Help! 0.98

00:27:20.000 Like it's still going on.

00:27:22.000 And I'm like, what?

00:27:24.000 What's going on?

00:27:26.000 Dude tells them when they get there, the backup officers get there, he's like, he tried to kill me, he's got my gun, and I got it back from him!

00:27:33.000 I'm like...

00:27:35.000 No, this is going south.

00:27:37.000 They jacked me up, take me out of the car, beat me down, take me to jail.

00:27:40.000 Now I'm charged with attempted murder and kidnapping of a police officer.

00:27:44.000 I'm 20 years old and I meet Skip DiMatteo, the public defender, who then tells me I'm facing life imprisonment and that's it.

00:27:52.000 And they're going to put me in the security wing because my bail is going to be so high.

00:27:56.000 I looked at him and I said, what do you mean, man?

00:27:58.000 I was just driving home.

00:28:00.000 I'm in a stolen car.

00:28:01.000 He said, no, man, you ain't never going home.

00:28:05.000 So I broke down.

00:28:06.000 And I went through detox with no help, you know?

00:28:09.000 So three days I'm in a cell with nothing but this newspaper.

00:28:14.000 And it's the headline on the newspaper, Mrs. Craig's Murder.

00:28:18.000 And it starts taunting me and taunting me and taunting me.

00:28:23.000 Somehow in my head I came up with this crazy mantra.

00:28:26.000 If I knew something about something that big, I bet you'd let me go about this lie.

00:28:31.000 I didn't try to kill nobody.

00:28:36.000 I was sitting on my bed and the guard was walking by and he goes, What's wrong with you?

00:28:43.000 And I started telling him what was going through my head, the whole story.

00:28:47.000 And that was it, Joe.

00:28:49.000 Oh my God.

00:28:50.000 He ran down the block.

00:28:51.000 He went to the sergeant's office.

00:28:52.000 They got me to the warden.

00:28:54.000 The warden's now been told...

00:28:55.000 So when you say you're telling them what's going on in your head...

00:28:57.000 I repeated it.

00:28:58.000 So in your head, you had a plan...

00:29:01.000 To tell him a story.

00:29:02.000 To tell him a lie.

00:29:03.000 And when that officer responded because he heard the story, I didn't have any idea what the impact of my words were. 1.00

00:29:10.000 I was so stupid. 0.99

00:29:13.000 Well, you're also going through detox. 1.00

00:29:16.000 Yeah.

00:29:16.000 And so they take me to the warden's office and he starts praising me.

00:29:19.000 They take me out of solitary confinement.

00:29:21.000 Praising you how?

00:29:22.000 Telling me I'm doing a great job.

00:29:24.000 What did you tell him?

00:29:25.000 I told him that a man that I knew in the area had told me he had done the crime and that if they let me out, I would tell them all about it.

00:29:34.000 And he told me I was helping the community.

00:29:36.000 They were taking me out of solitary confinement and all that.

00:29:40.000 They told me that they spoke to Officer Wright and he was going to retract his charges and only charge me resisting arrest and they were going to drop the rest of the charges and everything was going to be good.

00:29:52.000 And then three days later they came back and said, dude, you lied.

00:29:56.000 And the only reason you lied is because you want to tell us that you did this. 0.99

00:29:59.000 They put me in a room and start doing all this shit. 0.99

00:30:02.000 So how did they find out that you lied? 0.98

00:30:03.000 The dude that I made the story up was no longer a drug addict and he had an owl by me.

00:30:10.000 So you just tried to pin the story on some other drug addict?

00:30:14.000 The dude that robbed me, he rolled me up in a rug and tried to kill me with a 357 Magnum.

00:30:19.000 I figured, I heard the story that he was dead and figured they won't even find him anyway, you know?

00:30:25.000 But a 20-year-old doesn't have any concept of, you know, complex stuff like this.

00:30:30.000 Especially in the 80s, right?

00:30:31.000 Dude, they came right back to me and they had me in the Delaware County District Attorney's office.

00:30:36.000 And this Detective Martin told me in no certain terms I was going to tell him why I killed that woman and I wasn't leaving that room.

00:30:44.000 So for 13 hours they tortured me, man. 0.99

00:30:48.000 Started bringing up my childhood and all that shit. 0.99

00:30:50.000 I told them, man. 0.99

00:30:53.000 I just wanted to blow up my whole world.

00:30:54.000 And they said, oh, that's good.

00:30:56.000 So this is what my confession consists of.

00:30:59.000 I never killed anyone.

00:31:01.000 I never meant to kill anyone.

00:31:03.000 That's good, Nick.

00:31:04.000 That's good.

00:31:04.000 You never meant to kill her.

00:31:06.000 What are you talking about?

00:31:10.000 I went to trial and I was given a three-day trial for the murder of Mrs. Craig after the jury found me not guilty of all my original charges.

00:31:20.000 So I was really frustrated that a jury heard the testimony of Officer Wright.

00:31:25.000 He would later be fired from the force, being caught up in a drug gang in Chester. 0.90

00:31:30.000 He was dirty.

00:31:32.000 But they didn't know that at the time. 0.83

00:31:33.000 But a jury found me not guilty.

00:31:35.000 That prosecutor went mental when that happened and he decided to seek the death penalty. 0.97

00:31:41.000 So a month after I was found not guilty of all my original charges that I made the stupid story up, they gave me a three-day murder trial that in essence was a joke. 0.98

00:31:52.000 And what they did was they preyed upon the poor jury and showed them pictures of the victim and stuff like that, man. 0.75

00:31:59.000 And they had an inmate who burglarized the prosecutor's home And was facing 20 years, come into court and say I confessed to him.

00:32:07.000 That was it.

00:32:08.000 So the inmate said that you confessed to him.

00:32:10.000 Charles Catalino.

00:32:12.000 They got a guy to do that. 0.95

00:32:14.000 Yep.

00:32:15.000 So I'm sitting there and they dropped a bomb on me.

00:32:18.000 I know it's coming.

00:32:20.000 The jury was so crass that they went out to the Wagon Wheel restaurant and put their dessert order on hold while they found me guilty.

00:32:28.000 And then during the sentencing phase, they had their dessert.

00:32:33.000 I was 20 years old, man.

00:32:35.000 I'm like, this isn't real, man.

00:32:38.000 Like, I never killed or raped this woman.

00:32:39.000 How can this happen, you know? 0.92

00:32:41.000 And then the only mistake I truly think I made was that I told the judge to go to hell when he sentenced me to death because he couldn't look me in the face.

00:32:50.000 Why do you think that's a mistake?

00:32:52.000 Because he decided to send me to Huntington Prison, the hardest prison in America at that time.

00:32:56.000 And what was he going to do before that?

00:32:58.000 I don't know, but he made sure I went to the place that they broke you.

00:33:01.000 See, Huntington was designed as the prison. 0.95

00:33:03.000 If you raped another inmate, they sent you there.

00:33:05.000 It was the first SHU program in America.

00:33:08.000 It was the first— What is SHU program?

00:33:10.000 A special housing unit or security housing unit or level five supermax, you know, like Pelican Bay.

00:33:19.000 And your punishment was that you weren't allowed to speak in your cell. 0.99

00:33:23.000 And if you got caught speaking in your cell, they came in with a nurse and after they beat you down, she jabbed you in the ass with Thorazine and they knocked you out for a week and you lost your mind. 0.99

00:33:34.000 So it was horrible. 0.99

00:33:35.000 Like I told you, the first two years of my sentence, every day I kept my mouth shut.

00:33:40.000 I didn't care what was done around me or not. 1.00

00:33:43.000 You weren't allowed to say a goddamn word. 0.99

00:33:46.000 And they meant it, man. 1.00

00:33:48.000 You're not allowed to talk to other inmates?

00:33:49.000 Nothing.

00:33:50.000 I dare you to sing happy birthday to yourself like I did.

00:33:54.000 I paid for that one. 1.00

00:34:00.000 They fucked me up, Joe. 0.99

00:34:01.000 But I don't care about that. 1.00

00:34:03.000 Look, I realized I was in a race. 1.00

00:34:10.000 I had to kill off the person that I was. 1.00

00:34:14.000 The person that I initially was upon entering prison was a deceitful lying coward with no fortitude because no self-respect resided within me. 1.00

00:34:25.000 And in utter humbleness, I took everything that they did to me And I paid for every window I broke, everything I stole, every lie I told. 0.78

00:34:35.000 And then I started to love myself.

00:34:37.000 I figured I ain't getting nothing out of this but misery, so I'm going out like the dude.

00:34:43.000 I'm going to stand up, and I'm going to speak beautifully on the day they execute me.

00:34:49.000 I'm going to walk to that walk, man.

00:34:51.000 I'm going to do this. 0.88

00:34:53.000 I didn't kill that woman, but I damn sure ain't no coward.

00:34:57.000 I'm going to find out everything I can about life. 0.99

00:35:01.000 And then, I'm going to face my death.

00:35:04.000 I'm going to do it with Jadavid, man.

00:35:07.000 Like, I had this beautiful, beautiful speech ready for him, too.

00:35:11.000 I was going to lay it out and just be at peace because I realized there was nothing else to do.

00:35:18.000 I couldn't fight.

00:35:19.000 I couldn't argue.

00:35:20.000 It didn't matter because God's in control of my life and I really believed that I had a choice. 0.99

00:35:25.000 Either be a bitter pill and get sucked dry by all the misery around me or get my shit right and start loving myself. 0.98

00:35:34.000 So I taught myself how to speak and overcome this aphasia that affected me my whole life. 0.99

00:35:42.000 And I found out that I was giving myself neuroplasticity healing and I became very graceful and calm in prison.

00:35:50.000 I was so serene and so powerful.

00:35:53.000 How did you find out you were giving yourself neuroplasticity healing?

00:35:56.000 I found that out from Robin Sharma.

00:35:58.000 Robin Sharma is the foremost authority on speaking about neuroplasticity healing.

00:36:04.000 And when he found out what I speak about, he said, I am the living embodiment of his teachings.

00:36:10.000 That through grace and dignity and kindness, I've developed my own charisma that carries me with confidence.

00:36:17.000 And that is the description of what he teaches professionals, billionaires, everyone.

00:36:22.000 Can you explain neuroplasticity for people?

00:36:24.000 Neuroplasticity is a reward system within your brain wherein your interactions, especially with other human beings, heals you.

00:36:33.000 So people who suffer from PTSD, people who have had trauma in their lives, Can actually heal themselves by being meticulously polite.

00:36:43.000 And I began all of this when I was released.

00:36:47.000 My mother sat me down and she said, Nikki, listen to me.

00:36:53.000 For you to get out of prison and not be a nice man is a waste of everyone's time.

00:36:59.000 Every prayer, every time someone called me the mother of a monster, every time a woman spit in my face, Everything that I went through is a waste of time for you not to be a nice man.

00:37:11.000 So I want you to promise me one thing.

00:37:15.000 Every day, I want you to go out and say, yes ma'am, yes sir, and thank you.

00:37:20.000 Because I want you to show respect for who you are in that way.

00:37:24.000 They hurt this family badly.

00:37:26.000 It's the only thing I ask.

00:37:28.000 I didn't know that she handed me the tool to healing.

00:37:31.000 Because neuroplasticity is the self-contrived act of rewarding yourself for being a nice person.

00:37:39.000 And my gift over the last 14 years is that I made myself so amazingly pliable and gifted at helping others find the good within them.

00:37:51.000 That's the reason I'm truly here today. 0.96

00:37:54.000 The thing that I've been able to accomplish through my writing and through my efforts is to show people that you take things personally in life, you'd be then a fool. 0.99

00:38:05.000 Because what you've done is you've taken all the hurts and you've made them the justified reason why you have to be an asshole to somebody. 0.99

00:38:14.000 Whereas you keep forgetting that you've been given a break over and over just to be here, man. 0.99

00:38:20.000 Dude, I've been shot, stabbed, strangled, run over by a car.

00:38:23.000 I hung myself in prison, two drug overdoses, and I had a cannibal trying to murder me for two solid years.

00:38:29.000 I know that I could fall at any moment from my own hand.

00:38:35.000 But God bless me.

00:38:36.000 I believe so much in my purpose in life that I won't kill myself.

00:38:40.000 I won't give up.

00:38:42.000 And it's only because I've been tested that I know that it has to be for a reason.

00:38:49.000 I had dreams about all this.

00:38:52.000 While I was in death row, I had the most amazing, intense dreams because of my suffering, and they play out now.

00:38:59.000 So what happened?

00:39:01.000 Did I manage to touch something we're all chasing, or am I in a delusional world?

00:39:07.000 What do you mean by that?

00:39:09.000 I told people last year, I told everybody on Facebook something bad was going to happen, and it did when my daughter broke her elbow.

00:39:20.000 So I told everybody before it happened.

00:39:24.000 Two years ago, I told my wife, Laura, I was coming back here to meet Anthony Samandani and go on the Good News Network and do a thing with Maymay Ali, who's a good friend of mine.

00:39:34.000 And I told him how things would happen.

00:39:38.000 And sure enough, every time it's played out.

00:39:43.000 Why did you think something bad was going to happen when you said something bad was going to happen and your daughter broke her arm?

00:39:48.000 Dude, I'm in a meeting with a guy named Kevin and John and I look at them and I say, I have to...

00:39:53.000 And I'm on Melrose Boulevard.

00:39:55.000 My daughter is playing in the playground a few blocks away and I'm in this meeting with these men about my film.

00:40:03.000 I stand up at the table and I say to them, I have to go right now.

00:40:08.000 I run outside and I ask my wife Laura, is she okay?

00:40:12.000 My daughter fell and broke her elbow and had to have six pins put into it in Cedars-Sinai.

00:40:18.000 We have a $63,000 bill that it stuck us with.

00:40:21.000 But I knew it was going to happen before it did, and I even told people it was going to happen.

00:40:27.000 How can I have that touch?

00:40:29.000 Did you know that was going to happen specifically?

00:40:31.000 I saw the event, but not in real time, so I could make sense of it.

00:40:36.000 But I saw the greenery at the park when we pulled up.

00:40:40.000 It was the same.

00:40:41.000 And I had the flash last night when I met Stedman Graham.

00:40:45.000 I had all these moments.

00:40:46.000 A woman last night pinned a thing on my collar, and she looked just like my mother, and I had this dream.

00:40:52.000 Because my mom died on September 9th.

00:40:54.000 And 10 years ago, I was actually on a flight September 11th for her funeral.

00:41:01.000 I saw all these things in my dreams on death row and they play out.

00:41:05.000 And it keeps happening with witnesses to my life that are recognizing it with me.

00:41:11.000 So I can't make it up.

00:41:12.000 Do you know what I mean?

00:41:15.000 I wish my friend Jason was here.

00:41:16.000 He's been able to help me just put this in context and I'm doing this badly, but I just think that somehow I went through an experience so intense that it has truly cracked open something that has given me a hypersensitivity to things.

00:41:32.000 I think that it has allowed me truly to be humble enough to really give my life for a purpose and not be ego-driven.

00:41:41.000 Like, I have nothing at this moment where we sit here, but I am so proud of the fact that that doesn't ever stop me from believing in good.

00:41:50.000 And you could beat me all day.

00:41:51.000 You could put me in a cage. 0.96

00:41:53.000 You could do whatever you want to me, but it's up to me to then make it misery.

00:41:58.000 I'm choosing not to, man.

00:42:00.000 I don't care how much I got to struggle from this point on or what graces I'm granted.

00:42:05.000 I just want one thing to stay true in my life that I don't lose who I am. 0.90

00:42:10.000 I fought so hard to be this man through a childhood of feeling so inadequate because another man raped me.

00:42:18.000 To the feelings that I was so low of being cast aside as a condemned human being to then rise up and go and speak before governments to the point that Kofi Annan told me that I was one of the finest speakers in the world.

00:42:33.000 To then go and follow that and stand at the base of the Coliseum where human beings were put to death for entertainment and blow 20,000 people away and have it flawlessly done.

00:42:45.000 And to recognize that I had it all within me to do because of one thing.

00:42:49.000 That neuroplasticity gave me charisma.

00:42:52.000 The kind of charisma you exude.

00:42:55.000 So I don't know where it is that you hit that point where you decided to really believe in yourself. 0.99

00:43:00.000 But like you said, you didn't listen to that shit that people were telling you. 0.98

00:43:04.000 And once you did that, you started to contrive all this beautiful charisma. 0.99

00:43:08.000 Because I didn't even watch the fight Saturday when you were talking.

00:43:11.000 I listened to you.

00:43:13.000 And I thought...

00:43:14.000 He's so flawless, it's not even thought of.

00:43:17.000 But people would never grant you that.

00:43:19.000 You had to do something in your heart, something within you made you believe in this guy, man.

00:43:25.000 Listen, I have not had much resistance at all.

00:43:27.000 I'm going to be honest with you.

00:43:29.000 Like, what you're saying about me is very kind.

00:43:32.000 I really appreciate it, but I really haven't had much resistance.

00:43:35.000 Yeah, but what it is about you that makes you believe in yourself, yo?

00:43:40.000 What happened?

00:43:41.000 Where'd you hit that point?

00:43:43.000 Well, I'm pretty sure it came from martial arts.

00:43:46.000 From martial arts competition when I was very young.

00:43:48.000 Pretty sure from...

00:43:49.000 The first beating or the first win?

00:43:52.000 Neither.

00:43:53.000 Neither.

00:43:54.000 Just how difficult it was.

00:43:58.000 Just doing it from 15 to...

00:44:04.000 Before I was 22 I stopped.

00:44:06.000 Somewhere around 22. But there's just the fact that it was so difficult, that it taught me hard work, taught me focus, and I didn't have anything before that.

00:44:18.000 Before that, I thought I was a loser. 0.87

00:44:20.000 Like, I really thought I was a loser. 0.68

00:44:22.000 I don't know my father.

00:44:24.000 My stepdad's a very nice guy, but there's something about growing up without a father that is still alive that doesn't talk to you.

00:44:33.000 And, you know, my mom worked all day.

00:44:35.000 My stepdad worked all day.

00:44:37.000 There was no one around.

00:44:38.000 You know, I just...

00:44:40.000 And we moved a lot.

00:44:42.000 I didn't have any friends.

00:44:42.000 So I just...

00:44:43.000 I never felt like I was worthwhile.

00:44:48.000 That's what I mean.

00:44:49.000 It wasn't anything like what you experienced.

00:44:51.000 No.

00:44:51.000 But it was enough within you that it was the point.

00:44:56.000 I needed to prove myself.

00:44:57.000 That's what it was.

00:44:58.000 I wanted to show...

00:45:00.000 There was something inside me that I needed to show that I wasn't useless.

00:45:04.000 And the only way I could show that I wasn't useless was by being good at things.

00:45:07.000 And initially it was art and then after art it became martial arts.

00:45:11.000 And the martial arts thing was more important than art because the martial arts tested me.

00:45:16.000 Like art was beautiful because I could draw things and people would love them and then it made me feel good that people liked my work.

00:45:22.000 But there's a big difference between that and the martial arts.

00:45:25.000 The martial arts was so difficult to do and to compete at a national level.

00:45:32.000 It was every time I did it, I was terrified.

00:45:35.000 But after it was over, I felt better about myself and I understood that I could actually be good at things.

00:45:41.000 So it was the first thing that I ever did that gave me a feeling of value.

00:45:45.000 So I went from being a loser to being an extreme winner.

00:45:49.000 That's brilliant.

00:45:52.000 But that is your point, though.

00:45:53.000 But you're saying that people held me back, and that's not really the case. 0.96

00:45:59.000 I'm sure people judged me one way or another because of fear factor or some of the other things, but the thing about going through the martial arts competition and everything when I was young, I don't give a fuck how other people view me. 0.96

00:46:13.000 I don't. 0.81

00:46:14.000 I just do what I like.

00:46:15.000 I do what I like and I try to be nice.

00:46:17.000 But that's where your charisma comes from.

00:46:20.000 And where you got that from is still yours, man.

00:46:22.000 I admire that.

00:46:23.000 A lot of people don't have the confidence to do that, to shut off that noise, that thing that makes us all react to everyone else's opinion.

00:46:31.000 Well, I react to it.

00:46:32.000 I mean, I most certainly feel it, but I just don't let it change the way I go through life.

00:46:40.000 And I think because of the lessons that I've learned, I try to express that as much as possible for people that haven't gone through those same lessons.

00:46:50.000 So I can express that information and maybe people can absorb some of it without having to go through what I went through.

00:46:59.000 I think what you went through is infinitely more difficult, more trying, and I think that your message and your story Can show people that in the worst possible scenario the beginning of your life as a man You're wrongfully committed to life in prison You are going to spend the rest of your life until they execute you on death row and

00:47:29.000 all the horrors that you've gone through to come out of that and And to come out of that with a purpose of being a nice person and learning how to speak and learning how to speak clearly and confidently.

00:47:42.000 Like, there's a lesson in that that's at a...

00:47:44.000 I mean, this is almost like at a...

00:47:49.000 At a religious level.

00:47:50.000 I mean, you talk about someone who's created a diamond from pressure.

00:47:56.000 I mean, that's what you've done.

00:47:57.000 What you've done is you've figured out a way, despite all this raging hurricane of emotion that goes through your mind that causes you to cry when you think about these things, you can express yourself In a very clear way that lets people at least peer through the window into what you've experienced in your life. 0.94

00:48:20.000 And it can give people a perspective that it's very, very rare that someone gets fucked over in life as bad as you did. 0.86

00:48:31.000 Very, very rare. 0.89

00:48:32.000 And it's even more rare to come through at the end with a sense of purpose.

00:48:37.000 Every day of my life someone writes me and tells me they didn't kill themselves today.

00:48:41.000 Did you know that?

00:48:42.000 Every day, man.

00:48:44.000 They didn't stop drugs.

00:48:46.000 There's a young man living in my house named Zach Kurz.

00:48:49.000 He's a really good friend of mine.

00:48:51.000 He really changed his whole life since meeting me.

00:48:55.000 Even my close friends have told me that I've changed their life.

00:49:01.000 And I appreciate it because I recognize a lot of times it's the good within them that's resonating.

00:49:09.000 And I'm proud of the fact that I have sat and listened to the words I kind of deserve for what I've tried.

00:49:19.000 And I'm going to learn in the future to accept the graces that you just did for me because in the past I always tried to, as you see, diminish it.

00:49:28.000 I have worked very hard, Joe.

00:49:30.000 I have worked very hard to craft my work into writing.

00:49:35.000 And like your drawings, I was so proud of having a number one bestseller in my first book.

00:49:42.000 And I was so proud of using my talent as a writer to then articulate what it's like to lose a baby in my journey through her eyes or to use this last effort in Monsters and Mad Men to tell people it's okay to have a bigger secret than the one that people know you by and still live with it.

00:49:59.000 And then when it's right you can share it.

00:50:01.000 Or I've made a point that I'm done writing because I've accomplished all my work as a writer and now I want to do one thing well.

00:50:09.000 I want to help young students around the world take themselves seriously with their education.

00:50:13.000 I did over 500 of them in schools all over England and Europe and stuff.

00:50:18.000 I loved it, man.

00:50:20.000 I got all these young lads and lasses to come back to me and show me degrees that they got when I showed them how important their education was.

00:50:28.000 And I really thrive in that environment because I think that's where everything still is for me.

00:50:37.000 Somehow, like I'm that kid, you know, who won't let go of needing to still chase the good in my life.

00:50:47.000 And I know there's bad things in the woods.

00:50:50.000 And I know there's brilliant things in the woods.

00:50:53.000 I'm still willing to walk that path and find something meaningful and that's what I came here to really say is that I want to make an impact with my words but not overdo it.

00:51:05.000 So I don't want to do any other podcast after this one except for my friend Brian's but I want to do the meaningful thing without it having to be attached.

00:51:19.000 To the social media draw that has hurt my life so much.

00:51:24.000 The social media draw that has hurt your life, how has it hurt your life?

00:51:27.000 Well, when my daughter broke her arm and we put up a GoFundMe page, I was viciously attacked because people expect me to have funds, but they don't know, you know?

00:51:35.000 They expect you to have funds because of the movie and the book?

00:51:38.000 Yeah, and I'm not.

00:51:39.000 I have nothing.

00:51:40.000 I borrowed money to get here.

00:51:42.000 Like, people don't know that.

00:51:44.000 I'm wearing a shirt for my friend because he funded me to be here, you know, so I'd have food while I was here.

00:51:49.000 It's like that real, you know?

00:51:51.000 So...

00:51:52.000 People don't want me to not succeed.

00:51:55.000 Like I hurt their image of me if I don't have wealth in addition to being this person before them.

00:52:02.000 Well, I just think people just they don't understand, you know, the people see someone else's life and they like to assume the worst and they like to criticize you whenever they have an opportunity.

00:52:12.000 So if they see any vulnerability To pounce.

00:52:16.000 You know, what you've gone through is the opposite of what most people go through.

00:52:21.000 People have difficult times in their life, but more than difficult times, you know what they have?

00:52:26.000 They have long periods where they don't have anything happen.

00:52:31.000 Where life is boring and life is just a dull gray and life is just work and coming home from work and the trials and tribulations of that and traffic and The kind of insane experiences that you had being wrongly convicted and spending 22 years confined in a cage forced to fight because of vicious psychopath guards that those

00:53:01.000 kind of experiences are the experiences that allowed you to come out of it this Very kind, very open-minded person who's trying to better yourself and wants to see the best in other people.

00:53:16.000 The people that go through their life in this dull state of jealousy and bitterness and resentment and just Constantly focused on themselves, the self-obsessive culture that we have.

00:53:32.000 And one of the things about social media that's most fucked up is you're looking at all these other people's lives and shitting on them and comparing yourself to them and finding faults in them and attacking them in the comments section and attacking what they... 0.94

00:53:47.000 And the people that are doing that, they're all doing that because they're in agony. 0.99

00:53:51.000 They're in a different kind of agony than you, but it's an agony of nothing.

00:53:56.000 I know.

00:53:56.000 And I looked at it and I thought, I try to craft a beautiful message on the social medias so that I don't get caught up in the arguments.

00:54:04.000 And I always try to show the good in the world.

00:54:07.000 And that's why I love like the Good News Network.

00:54:09.000 I'll try and deliberately stay away from things that poison my mind because I don't want to contribute.

00:54:14.000 I don't want to get caught up in the Trump argument or the previous argument or the new argument.

00:54:19.000 I want to post meaningful messages of good because that's my overall message.

00:54:24.000 So I thought recently, maybe I can contrive three beautiful messages for Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and I could leave out this wonderful message, and then I can go about my business of going back into schools and talking to students because it gets too chaotic.

00:54:40.000 In addition to all the lovely messages of the wonderful human beings that listened to me speak or they saw the film Fear of 13, read one of my books, There's also a lot of women out there, man, and they've been harassing me and bothering me, 0.97

00:54:56.000 and it's put a lot of conflict in my life, and I don't want that.

00:55:01.000 Harassing you and bothering you how?

00:55:02.000 A lot of women fall in love with me because of the film.

00:55:05.000 The film made me look very attractive.

00:55:07.000 Yeah, what is it about women and men that are on death row, too? 0.98

00:55:10.000 That one, too.

00:55:11.000 Yeah, I know.

00:55:12.000 So, yeah, they'll contact me and tell me about their inmate.

00:55:14.000 I'm not an inmate.

00:55:15.000 I'm not a death row prisoner.

00:55:17.000 I was on death row.

00:55:18.000 That is a strange obsession that some women have. 1.00

00:55:21.000 Yeah, and it goes to a psychological feature of women who can fix things with their love. 1.00

00:55:28.000 So they want me to deceive my wife to be with them but not be deceitful.

00:55:33.000 They want me to ignore all the social chaos I could cause to go and leave a family to be with them but they still want to harass me.

00:55:40.000 And it was so bad recently even on my anniversary I had to cut off people who were bothering me.

00:55:45.000 I have an active stalker in my life.

00:55:48.000 It's all kind of crazy.

00:55:50.000 I've gone through a lot of experiences where the social media has really tested me.

00:55:54.000 So I thought I'm going to try and be like the dude.

00:55:57.000 All right, so they're going to execute me.

00:55:58.000 You said that twice, the dude.

00:55:59.000 Yeah, the dude is the guy that knows art.

00:56:02.000 So this is my last scene.

00:56:03.000 You don't mean like from the big Lebowski.

00:56:04.000 Kind of like the dude, man, like the dude.

00:56:08.000 So seriously, Jeff Bridges, one of my heroes.

00:56:11.000 Hey, what a moment.

00:56:12.000 You know, Chris Pine, Jeff Bridges, Ben Foster being interviewed about Hell in High Water.

00:56:16.000 And they asked Chris Pine, what are you watching?

00:56:19.000 He goes, oh, my God, I got to tell you about Fear of 13. I got to tell you about Nick Yaris.

00:56:24.000 Man, this dude is the shit. 1.00

00:56:25.000 You know what I mean? 1.00

00:56:26.000 And my phone goes, yeah.

00:56:28.000 I had dinner with him.

00:56:29.000 He's a really, really cool dude, man.

00:56:31.000 Wow.

00:56:32.000 You need to have Chris on.

00:56:33.000 He's a really cool dude.

00:56:34.000 He's really introspective, and he's deep.

00:56:37.000 Like, he's a real good conversationalist.

00:56:39.000 Chris Pine.

00:56:41.000 What else has he been in?

00:56:43.000 Pull his image up.

00:56:44.000 Oh, dude, he just did the...

00:56:45.000 I know who he is, but I'm blanking on him right now.

00:56:47.000 Oh, he just did the one with Oprah, too, and he did the one before that with the Star Trek.

00:56:53.000 Oh, that guy.

00:56:55.000 Yeah, Chris.

00:56:55.000 He was in Wonder Woman, too.

00:56:56.000 Yeah.

00:56:57.000 That guy's great.

00:56:58.000 I'm telling you, man, to invite me to dinner and hang out with him.

00:57:02.000 And even Harvey Weinstein pops in for a minute.

00:57:05.000 Holla.

00:57:06.000 I'm like, I know.

00:57:08.000 And he's like, Harvey, you just produced that documentary about the dude that was in jail.

00:57:12.000 This is before everything hit the fan with him.

00:57:13.000 Yeah, this is before things went tits up.

00:57:15.000 I know.

00:57:16.000 Yeah.

00:57:16.000 No, I had this real great blessing.

00:57:19.000 So Alejandro Monteverdi, who did The Little Boy with Kevin James, he has an amazing life story himself.

00:57:26.000 I mean, his family was abducted by kidnappers and executed.

00:57:30.000 This is real drama.

00:57:32.000 The day I meet this man, I'm at a red carpet event in LA and he goes home and watches Fear of 13 and he comes back and he tells me, I'm going to make your movie.

00:57:44.000 I'm going to help you.

00:57:45.000 I don't know how, but God told me there are certain movies I have to make.

00:57:49.000 And he's making one right now with Tim Ballard from the CIA about rescuing children from the sex trades and stuff.

00:57:55.000 So he's doing really serious work, you know what I mean?

00:57:57.000 So he wants to make a feature film.

00:57:59.000 So they're going to make a feature film about me called Conviction right now. 0.94

00:58:02.000 It might be changed, but I got the script and it's fucking hard, man, to read.

00:58:05.000 But we have all these A-list actors.

00:58:08.000 And my dream, of course, is Chris Pine because I think he's one of the best, right?

00:58:11.000 But I have no say.

00:58:12.000 But I get this amazing chance to come out here and meet all these people for the film being made, and I realize it's all meant to be, man, like all this crazy stuff.

00:58:23.000 So maybe if I craft my message right, I can step back and let people appreciate the message I had without distorting it, because I don't want to ruin it.

00:58:33.000 I don't want to go too far and end up making a fool of myself when I thought the right thing to do was teach people about neuroplasticity and how to make yourself a really badass outside the ring by being a kind man.

00:58:46.000 And how to really make yourself a really nice person to the family and loved ones by having the self-respect about yourself to be patient in life.

00:58:54.000 And things like that, you know?

00:58:56.000 And don't ruin it.

00:58:57.000 So that's what I... You keep saying don't ruin it.

00:59:00.000 You know, when you're talking about social media, I think one thing to take into consideration is when you do something like a GoFundMe or any time there's anything controversial, those are magnets for hate.

00:59:11.000 And you might think that everyone hates you, but what you're dealing with is a very small amount of people from a very large amount of people.

00:59:20.000 I know that, sir.

00:59:21.000 If you're thinking about the whole planet, all the English-speaking people, you're dealing with hundreds and hundreds of millions of people that connect.

00:59:27.000 I believe so much in what you said.

00:59:29.000 That's why I'm here now, because on my website, nickyarris.org, we organize so today's listeners can go there and download copies of my book.

00:59:37.000 I can get out of destitute times.

00:59:39.000 I can get my life together.

00:59:41.000 We did everything we could knowing that this podcast has reached a million people.

00:59:44.000 So you're right.

00:59:45.000 I mean, even your social media.

00:59:47.000 What I mean is just, the thing is to not get caught up.

00:59:51.000 In the numbers that come at you that are negative.

00:59:53.000 Because it's just a sheer matter of volume.

00:59:57.000 If you're reaching people through the internet, you're reaching who knows how many human beings.

01:00:02.000 I think one out of a hundred is going to be the type of person that wants to send a hateful message because it's easy.

01:00:10.000 Because they don't have to look you in the eyes when they do it.

01:00:13.000 They don't have to feel any social consequences.

01:00:15.000 They don't have to feel your pain when they insult you or say awful things about you or your family.

01:00:23.000 They're doing it because they want to affect you because they're hurting.

01:00:26.000 And they're hurting for a very different reason than the way you're hurting.

01:00:30.000 But this is what's wrong with social media is because human beings are not meant to communicate that way.

01:00:36.000 We lose our humanity in this very shallow form of interaction.

01:00:42.000 Because all those parts, what's important about people is looking them in the eyes, talking to them, hugging them, shaking their hand, communicating honestly.

01:00:51.000 And anytime you're missing any of those pieces, When you communicate dishonestly, when you don't want to shake someone's hand, when you don't want to look them in the eye, when you don't want to interact with them, when you don't care about them as a person. 0.98

01:01:03.000 All those things leave you feeling like shit. 0.99

01:01:07.000 Amen. 1.00

01:01:07.000 All those things. 1.00

01:01:08.000 That's true.

01:01:08.000 You're right.

01:01:09.000 The social media is the worst form of it.

01:01:12.000 Because it's just text.

01:01:13.000 You have to interpret it yourself. 0.99

01:01:15.000 You don't know what the fuck is going on in their life. 0.99

01:01:17.000 You don't know who they are. 0.99

01:01:18.000 But you read that text and you absorb it personally.

01:01:22.000 You absorb it personally, you take it in the worst possible form, and you feel that critique in your chest.

01:01:29.000 You feel it.

01:01:30.000 You feel it in your head.

01:01:31.000 I know.

01:01:31.000 I guess I got caught up in this notion that I could just go be a normal guy and have a normal job and people would leave me alone.

01:01:39.000 Well, they would if you weren't on social media.

01:01:43.000 And I've already entered that form.

01:01:45.000 Well, you don't have to stay in that form.

01:01:48.000 That's true.

01:01:48.000 But here's the thing.

01:01:49.000 Even if you do use that form, you know what you can do?

01:01:51.000 You just don't interact.

01:01:53.000 That's what I was doing.

01:01:54.000 That's the thing.

01:01:55.000 That's what I said I was going to do.

01:01:56.000 It's hard for people to understand that are on the outside. 1.00

01:01:59.000 They're like, well, you asshole. 1.00

01:02:00.000 I love you. 1.00

01:02:01.000 I want you to interact with me because I love you.

01:02:04.000 And I want you to recognize that I'm recognizing you, and I appreciate that from people, but they have to understand the volume of people that someone like you is dealing with.

01:02:12.000 That's what I try to convey, and I try very sincerely never to be ignorant to people. 0.97

01:02:17.000 You know, it's fucking mind-blowing, Joe, because I had my mind made up, and now I've realized that I do. 0.95

01:02:24.000 And it all goes back to a conversation with my boy Jason Daly. 0.96

01:02:28.000 Me and him were driving along to 405 one day, and the film Fear of 13 is about to come out.

01:02:34.000 And I told him I didn't want it to come out.

01:02:36.000 And he said,''You don't own that film.'' Every kid that's ever had a shitty childhood owns that film. 0.95

01:02:44.000 Everybody who's got a broken marriage or a shitty life or is really struggling owns that film. 1.00

01:02:48.000 If you fuck this up, I'll never be your friend again, man. 0.99

01:02:52.000 And he was right. 0.99

01:02:53.000 I don't own the fear of 13. And I don't own really anything of it, but its message is so beautiful.

01:03:00.000 I did what I could to tell my story because we're all living our life as an experience, but we can only convey it as a memory.

01:03:08.000 And I did beautifully for myself.

01:03:10.000 I'm so proud of the effort I made.

01:03:11.000 I don't care that the director robbed me.

01:03:13.000 I'll make my way.

01:03:14.000 I don't care what I went through to this moment because I truly appreciate the person who wrote me last night and said, two weeks ago, I was released from a mental hospital after trying to kill myself.

01:03:25.000 And my mom sat me down and made me watch a film. 0.89

01:03:29.000 Now, in the last two weeks, I've been going to therapy and I'm getting my shit together. 0.83

01:03:34.000 I don't own the film, Joe, and I don't own my message.

01:03:37.000 I guess my message is taken on by the people who love me, or not.

01:03:41.000 And you're right, I'm not going to be bothered by the negatives.

01:03:44.000 I had a terrible experience with a stalker for 12 years who won't leave me alone, and it cost me my daughter, and a divorce.

01:03:51.000 It's all kind of crazy stuff.

01:03:52.000 So it was really affecting me and my current wife, and I didn't like it.

01:03:56.000 But I think I'm going to actually beat a dude and just hang around for a little bit longer and make you proud of me for what I do from here on.

01:04:02.000 Well, don't worry about me, man.

01:04:04.000 No, everyone that I love is going to always be on that list, man.

01:04:08.000 That's what you use for motivation.

01:04:11.000 That's great, and there's nothing wrong with that.

01:04:14.000 But I think that what you can do and what you are doing is show that you can overcome things.

01:04:23.000 You can overcome horrible things.

01:04:25.000 Some of the most horrible experiences a person could ever face, you can overcome them, and you have.

01:04:31.000 And those messages, they give people inspiration.

01:04:34.000 And inspiration is one of the greatest things you can give a person.

01:04:37.000 I know that, man.

01:04:38.000 You're inspiring me today.

01:04:39.000 I told you since this man, ever since we started communicating, I told you, I mean this.

01:04:44.000 I even went out of my way today to Matt.

01:04:46.000 Matt rang me, your producer.

01:04:48.000 And I wanted to make a point right away.

01:04:51.000 I said, dude, I know a lot of people climb right past you to go to Joe.

01:04:54.000 But I wanted to tell you, thank you for helping me and my family today.

01:04:58.000 Thank you for helping organize.

01:04:59.000 I made sure that Jamie got my love when I came in the room because he organized my trip.

01:05:04.000 It was so cool how he got me into the right airport and everything right.

01:05:07.000 Because I know that is so important to that man.

01:05:11.000 Because a lot of people won't make that effort, Joe.

01:05:14.000 And I don't want to be that guy that misses my chance.

01:05:16.000 So I'm going to say thank you and yes ma'am and yes sir to everyone like my mom asked me.

01:05:21.000 And make sure never to overlook people because that's truly my message.

01:05:25.000 My kindness makes me able to come back.

01:05:27.000 My good heart is made better by the fact that I want to believe in good.

01:05:32.000 And it's crazy how it's come back to reward me in so many ways.

01:05:37.000 Like, do you remember when Muhammad Ali died?

01:05:39.000 Yeah.

01:05:40.000 Yeah, well, I didn't know Anthony Samandani.

01:05:43.000 I didn't know his story.

01:05:45.000 But one day, I get contacted by a man who's seen the fear of 13. And I learned that he went to university out here and he became a lawyer because of a promise to his mother to be a good person.

01:05:56.000 He goes to the mosque every Friday and becomes close friends with Muhammad.

01:06:00.000 And they go to dinner every night with Maymay on Fridays, you know, and they become real close.

01:06:04.000 And he tells me this story how, at a young age, Muhammad looks him in the face and says, you're going to be one of the men that carries my message in life.

01:06:11.000 And he's like, I'm 22. What could I possibly have to offer anyone?

01:06:18.000 So he goes through this experience and on the day that Muhammad Ali had approval from the government patent office for this bracelet that says, within good there is God.

01:06:29.000 He called me in England where I was at the time and he says, I have a question for you.

01:06:34.000 I saw your film and I learned a lot about you since then.

01:06:39.000 Why aren't you bitter, man?

01:06:40.000 Why are you still willing to believe?

01:06:43.000 And I said, my mother never prayed for anything but good.

01:06:46.000 She always told me the only good there was was within God.

01:06:51.000 He said, are you kidding me?

01:06:53.000 Hold on.

01:06:54.000 And he starts sending me this stuff.

01:06:56.000 I didn't know that earlier that day Muhammad Ali's bracelet would be, you know, approved by the patent.

01:07:02.000 I didn't know any of that.

01:07:03.000 But it was those words.

01:07:05.000 You see what I mean about the synchronicity of all this craziness in my life?

01:07:08.000 The next thing you know, I'm in Los Angeles.

01:07:10.000 I'm meeting Alejandro.

01:07:12.000 He wants to help me make the movie.

01:07:14.000 I meet all these wonderful people like Adam Callanan from Bottle Keeper.

01:07:18.000 He's such a sweet guy.

01:07:19.000 They came up with this company on the beach a couple years ago and now it's doing very well for keeping drinks cold.

01:07:26.000 Wonders for me and my wife.

01:07:27.000 This man is such a lovely guy that I wouldn't be in this chair without him or Anthony or any of these people, right?

01:07:34.000 And then Anthony sets up Maymay Ali and he brings me out and we have a podcast and he doesn't tell her a word about me beforehand.

01:07:48.000 Now, what's crazy was, I'm doing this interview right behind where I used to sleep on the street, and I kept all that quiet.

01:07:56.000 I did some of my best work when I was homeless.

01:07:59.000 And I do this thing, and Maymay looks at me and says, no disrespect to my father Muhammad Ali, but you're one of the most influential men I ever met in my life, and within five minutes of meeting you, I'm already changing things about my life.

01:08:13.000 I decided right then, Okay, then I have to own that, man.

01:08:17.000 I have to live it for her, man.

01:08:19.000 Like, I can never go back. 0.99

01:08:21.000 I can't go back and be an average, retarded, mindless, angry person. 1.00

01:08:27.000 I can't be caught up in the drama of everyday stupid shit. 1.00

01:08:31.000 Like, I gotta owe it to that girl, you know? 1.00

01:08:34.000 And I have ever since I met her.

01:08:36.000 She's one of the nicest people in my life, man.

01:08:39.000 I have some amazing friends, Joe.

01:08:41.000 I really mean it, man.

01:08:43.000 And there's so many connections to your life you wouldn't even know.

01:08:47.000 Dude, when people found out I was coming to meet you, every one of them said the same, pretty much the same thing.

01:08:54.000 Joe's such a nice dude.

01:08:55.000 He's so intelligent.

01:08:57.000 I love listening to him.

01:08:58.000 I work with educators on a platform called Nepris.

01:09:02.000 They love your STEM broadcasts.

01:09:04.000 I know people up in Waterbury, Connecticut that teach out of the self-defense class called practical self-defense.

01:09:10.000 They're right now going crazy because they know Jesse Kozakowski is on the first Bellator card. 0.56

01:09:18.000 These guys are really crazy like Alex Cortez and all of them.

01:09:22.000 They're like, Joe is so next level. 0.96

01:09:25.000 I'm saying, so are you. 1.00

01:09:27.000 It's like Joe showing you to believe in yourself because he didn't get there because he had been handed this shit. 0.99

01:09:35.000 I remember reading stories about you going to the MMA and just doing it so you could have drink money, man. 0.99

01:09:40.000 Like to get free tickets and go in, right?

01:09:42.000 Yeah.

01:09:43.000 That's true, ain't it?

01:09:44.000 Yeah, when I first started working for the UFC, I did the first 15- Not for money, right?

01:09:48.000 I did the first 15 shows for free.

01:09:50.000 For free?

01:09:51.000 Yeah.

01:09:51.000 See what I mean?

01:09:53.000 Well, I was probably foolish financially. 0.92

01:09:55.000 My manager didn't think it was a good idea. 0.93

01:09:57.000 I just didn't care.

01:09:58.000 I was enjoying it.

01:10:00.000 That's what I love.

01:10:02.000 That's what I want to do, man.

01:10:03.000 I want to be the dude, man.

01:10:04.000 It was also a struggling company that I believed in, and I wanted to help them.

01:10:08.000 But what you're saying is interesting because one theme that you keep repeating, that you want to do things for other people.

01:10:16.000 You keep saying that, like you wanted to do that for Maymay.

01:10:19.000 You wanted to make me proud.

01:10:21.000 This is a constant theme that you want to do good for other people.

01:10:27.000 That's an amazing...

01:10:30.000 Amazing mindset for someone who's been through everything that you've been through that that sentiment that that and then your gratitude that's another very very powerful thing gratitude Love and gratitude are two of the most incredible expressions and Some of the most influential because when you show true gratitude to people and true love to people They feel that.

01:10:53.000 That affects the way they interact with the rest of the people that they're going to experience.

01:10:58.000 Like if they run into a new person just moments after meeting you, they will be nicer.

01:11:03.000 And they will feel that gratitude and feel that love.

01:11:06.000 That's real.

01:11:07.000 And that's one thing that we all can do.

01:11:09.000 You know, this thought that we're all powerless and helpless.

01:11:12.000 It's one of the problems with this society, is that this society is so overwhelming. 0.88

01:11:18.000 We have so much information coming at us, and the message is that what's important is, you know, beautiful girls with short skirts and fast, shiny cars and big, giant houses and private jets and diamond rings and expensive watches and all this horseshit. 0.99

01:11:37.000 And this is what people seek.

01:11:39.000 They seek that instead of seeking love and gratitude because it doesn't seem that that's important, but that's way more important.

01:11:47.000 It's everything because that literally changes the world. 0.99

01:11:50.000 You know, I always thought that that expression, the wings of the butterfly eventually become a hurricane, that's fucking stupid because that doesn't work that way. 0.98

01:11:57.000 A butterfly just generates a very small amount of wind and they're small and it doesn't really work that way. 0.95

01:12:01.000 But the idea behind it, what it represents...

01:12:08.000 As a metaphor, is that you literally by your one person that lives amongst 300 plus million people in this country, one person with love and gratitude and inspiration, especially the way you can express yourself.

01:12:26.000 That affects people you come in contact with.

01:12:29.000 And that in turn affects people they come in contact with.

01:12:33.000 And that literally can change the world.

01:12:35.000 It actually can change the world.

01:12:36.000 That's real.

01:12:37.000 Neuroplasticity, man.

01:12:38.000 That's what I'm good at.

01:12:39.000 I know it.

01:12:40.000 I've helped so many people heal their lives when I've interacted with them in intense time.

01:12:45.000 I've made an effort.

01:12:46.000 Let me stop you. 0.95

01:12:47.000 Because this is one thing that you said to me before the podcast and you said it again during the podcast.

01:12:51.000 You only want to do this one podcast.

01:12:53.000 You don't want to say anymore.

01:12:55.000 And I want to ask you why.

01:12:57.000 Because if you have this powerful message, the more people you reach and the more you express yourself with this message, you're not going to cheapen your message.

01:13:06.000 What you're gonna do is you're gonna get it out to more and more people.

01:13:08.000 And the more people that you can get out your words and the way you express yourself, that's gonna affect people.

01:13:15.000 It's gonna affect people in a very, very positive way.

01:13:18.000 Okay.

01:13:20.000 But the other side of that that no one can appreciate is that I'm failed.

01:13:24.000 I haven't been able to get anything going.

01:13:27.000 I tried to start a podcast.

01:13:28.000 No, no, no, no.

01:13:28.000 I have.

01:13:29.000 Let me stop you. 0.95

01:13:30.000 You're not failed.

01:13:31.000 First of all, you've only been out of jail for 13 years. 1.00

01:13:35.000 That's fucking crazy. 0.99

01:13:36.000 You were in jail for 22 years on death row. 1.00

01:13:39.000 There's not a whole lot of people who get through that experience and can tie their own fucking shoes after they're done. 0.99

01:13:45.000 You have every right in the world to be shell-shocked and incapacitated. 0.99

01:13:50.000 You're not.

01:13:51.000 It's hard to get things going.

01:13:53.000 The world does not open its doors for you and success does not come easy.

01:13:58.000 It doesn't work that way.

01:13:59.000 So for you to say you failed, you haven't failed.

01:14:01.000 You've already written books.

01:14:02.000 You already have a documentary made about you.

01:14:05.000 You're in the process of making a feature-length film about your life.

01:14:08.000 That's not a failure.

01:14:09.000 No, I just failed in getting the platforms together that I need.

01:14:14.000 It's not even failing.

01:14:15.000 It's just it doesn't always work out right the first time.

01:14:19.000 It's not a failure.

01:14:20.000 You're not a failure.

01:14:21.000 Okay, then here's the deal for you, sir.

01:14:23.000 Prove your words right to me and come on. 0.80

01:14:26.000 When I get my shit together, you come on my podcast and we finish the conversation later on. 0.90

01:14:31.000 I would do that. 0.91

01:14:32.000 But even if I didn't, it doesn't matter.

01:14:34.000 You can do anything, but I just want to show you, you yourself, this idea that you've failed is crazy.

01:14:42.000 You have not failed.

01:14:44.000 If you've done things, look, first of all...

01:14:47.000 Everyone does things that don't succeed and then you recalibrate and you adjust and you try again.

01:14:53.000 No one succeeds and wins the world championship in their first fight.

01:14:57.000 No one writes a book without learning English and without practicing essays that becomes the greatest book the world's ever written.

01:15:08.000 You take time and you learn.

01:15:11.000 This is what life is about.

01:15:13.000 Life is about this process.

01:15:15.000 And through that process, you find yourself.

01:15:18.000 Through the difficult tasks that you undertake, you adjust and you become better.

01:15:27.000 You said you started a podcast.

01:15:29.000 How long did you do it for?

01:15:30.000 I didn't.

01:15:31.000 Never got off the ground.

01:15:32.000 No one believes in me.

01:15:33.000 That's not a failure.

01:15:34.000 I know.

01:15:34.000 I'm just saying...

01:15:35.000 First of all, podcasts are easy, man.

01:15:37.000 That phone you have right there, I'm sure that phone has an audio recorder.

01:15:44.000 My $11 phone probably does.

01:15:46.000 Oh, they all do.

01:15:47.000 Every phone does.

01:15:48.000 That's not an $11 phone, man.

01:15:50.000 That's a regular Android phone, right?

01:15:52.000 It's a good phone. 1.00

01:15:53.000 It's thin as shit. 1.00

01:15:54.000 It's like a wafer. 1.00

01:15:57.000 I mean, look, if you had this phone fucking 10 years ago, people would think you were a wizard. 0.99

01:16:02.000 Yeah, man. 0.98

01:16:02.000 If you were in the 5th century, of course you would be. 0.98

01:16:05.000 Well, that phone, I'm sure, has a voice recorder.

01:16:08.000 Joe, you know you're kicking me into this, right?

01:16:09.000 And I'm going to have to respond because of the way I've always been wired.

01:16:13.000 I'm gonna do this then.

01:16:14.000 I am.

01:16:15.000 You can do anything.

01:16:15.000 It's not just this.

01:16:16.000 No, listen, I am.

01:16:17.000 Alright?

01:16:18.000 You need never again encourage me, sir.

01:16:20.000 Okay.

01:16:20.000 If I go around doing that for others...

01:16:23.000 I don't want you to beat yourself up.

01:16:23.000 No, I have been rough on myself because I thought I'd have a platform and accomplish the things that I wanted to.

01:16:27.000 And I felt really shitty that I wasn't able to take care and provide for my family.

01:16:31.000 And that's the heart of it.

01:16:32.000 Really, there's the struggle on that side. 0.98

01:16:34.000 I wouldn't give a shit about fame. 0.87

01:16:36.000 I've had the most amazing experiences of my life, man. 0.95

01:16:39.000 One of my first interviews was the Village Voice and the woman learns me at the end, Jennifer Gonnerman.

01:16:43.000 She says, man, you know you're living one of the greatest stories ever told, man.

01:16:47.000 This ain't no joke.

01:16:49.000 And every time she's told me that words in my head, I realize it comes with a hell of a ride and a price.

01:16:56.000 So if I'm going to own it, I got to own all of it.

01:16:59.000 I keep telling people to own it when you do well, so... 0.99

01:17:02.000 Maybe I needed to bounce back and this is the day I step forward and start kicking ass again. 0.82

01:17:06.000 Maybe that will get me out of those tearful days that I've had to go through. 0.95

01:17:10.000 Well, you have every right to have a struggle.

01:17:13.000 I mean, if anybody has any right to have difficult emotions and a difficulty expressing those emotions, it's you.

01:17:22.000 And I understand how you could dwell on things not succeeding the way you anticipated and wanted them to.

01:17:29.000 But you just got to keep going, man.

01:17:31.000 No, I'm such an honest person.

01:17:32.000 I could never come on here and fake it.

01:17:34.000 You know, I could never do that for you, man.

01:17:36.000 I thought that would be so insincere.

01:17:38.000 So I just came on here and I decided I was going to pour it out, honestly.

01:17:42.000 Well, you did.

01:17:43.000 And I feel like the best thing about it is...

01:17:46.000 Joe, you're so like me in so many ways on the down low.

01:17:50.000 You just want good.

01:17:52.000 You just want to have a purposeful message that you want to share.

01:17:56.000 And that's what I thought was really cool.

01:17:58.000 I had a really cool experience last year.

01:18:01.000 I went to East Germany to speak before a company.

01:18:04.000 And I met all these Lebanese refugees after meeting Navy SEALs.

01:18:08.000 The dudes on the plane loved me, man.

01:18:11.000 I built them up for being part of our military system.

01:18:14.000 I made them really respect and honor themselves.

01:18:17.000 Then I was on the streets of Berlin hanging out with these Lebanese refugees, and I made them feel so good about the fact that they still believed in each other.

01:18:26.000 So I have some magical ability to go around and touch different groups and my message resonates with people who have been in the military or been through trauma or not been through trauma and I have a gift.

01:18:39.000 I know it.

01:18:40.000 And I've spoken in some of the most prestigious places and one of them is still to this day one of the highest honors.

01:18:47.000 I spoke at St. John's Church in London where Thich Nhat Nhan, the Vietnamese monk who marched with Martin Luther King in Selma, Alabama spoke.

01:18:57.000 And he used to be my pen pal on death row.

01:19:00.000 He was the first man that gave me respect when I was on death row.

01:19:04.000 And he questioned why I didn't have respect a lot like you're doing for me today.

01:19:08.000 And he taught me to look at myself differently.

01:19:12.000 So I went through a whole one-year period of my experiences before I could speak at that church.

01:19:17.000 And when I did, I was absolutely flawless because I knew that my friend was there and he was guiding me.

01:19:24.000 And somewhere within me I have some magical ability.

01:19:28.000 I don't know where it comes from, but I have.

01:19:31.000 An orator's skill.

01:19:32.000 And once I'm past these dark days, I'm sure I can lay it down well so that I can carry a message beautifully to educational fields, purposefully into the corporate fields or wherever I want to go.

01:19:46.000 And I love it that I do have a winning hand and I have a gift behind it that was earned.

01:19:51.000 You taught yourself how to do this.

01:19:53.000 I mean, think about what you were saying earlier about learning how to speak so that you could speak at your own execution.

01:19:59.000 That is a powerful motivating force.

01:20:01.000 Yes, sir.

01:20:02.000 And to learn all of the world's religions so that you understood what it means to speak.

01:20:08.000 Do you know in the Sanskrit religion a lot of the words are used as descriptive forms of things, so chair isn't the object, it's the feeling of sitting.

01:20:18.000 So you have a responsibility and not only in the words that you choose to speak but in the manner that you deliver them and the vibrations within you that you caringly share with another person because there is a receptor within us all to the truth and it resonates and it rises within us and so I found that powerful ability to talk to myself in that manner so that I could love myself.

01:20:44.000 And I would stand in the window of my cell and talk to myself or quote beautiful texts.

01:20:52.000 And I loved reading The Prophet by Khalil Gibran.

01:20:55.000 I read it over 20 times because I thought his message was so powerful because he lost his entire family while he wrote this book over a three-year journey.

01:21:04.000 And although I might have come back from the ashes like Peachy Carnahan and The Man Who Would Be King from Roger Kipling, I still feel like I have a valid message motivating me to go forward.

01:21:18.000 And my idea from this morning on is I want to go home to Laura and the kids and regroup, get myself together.

01:21:26.000 And I know a lot of people are going to contact me because of your grace to have me on this show.

01:21:32.000 And what I plan to do over the next couple years, Joe, is I want to show myself, not just you, sir, that I'm right.

01:21:42.000 Being a kind man, being a good-hearted man, being meticulously polite, doesn't mean you're a loser. 0.98

01:21:50.000 Doesn't mean you're a fool. 0.68

01:21:51.000 And if people take advantage of you, it's down to you to take it as an insult or rise the fuck up about the insult and just move past it. 0.96

01:21:59.000 The reason I'm not bitter is because I didn't take it personal when they broke my teeth and put me in death row and tortured me.

01:22:06.000 I didn't take it personal because right now there are two million people incarcerated in this country.

01:22:13.000 I didn't take it personal because 150 other men got off of death row.

01:22:19.000 That's why I'm able to function, because I don't take life personally, but I take love personally.

01:22:25.000 I take it so personally that I'm willing to love myself.

01:22:27.000 A lot of people can't do that.

01:22:30.000 Do you know how hard it is to get a woman to look at herself without looking at a flaw? 0.96

01:22:34.000 They can't stand it.

01:22:35.000 Do you know how hard it is to get a man to be honest with his emotions, thinking that he's weak if he does?

01:22:41.000 I would rather have tears on my face walking down the street in frustration than to just rip on somebody and hurt somebody.

01:22:48.000 That's the kind of caliber of level of humanity I want to find in myself, and I think we all do.

01:22:54.000 I think the message, like you said, has been distorted by the social media so badly that we need more talking.

01:23:01.000 And I would dream of having a late-night talk show and play some of my coolest music and talk to people, just average people, and just open it up.

01:23:12.000 Like, I want to just share what's good about me because my mother was right. 0.98

01:23:17.000 Wouldn't it have just been a terrible waste of time if I got out of jail and I was just another asshole on the street? 0.99

01:23:24.000 It would. 0.99

01:23:25.000 You know, one of the things that keeps coming up is you're longing for community.

01:23:31.000 And this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately because I think one of the things that people are constantly searching for in this world is happiness, right?

01:23:40.000 So one thing that people don't have that they wish they had that comes up over and over again.

01:23:46.000 It's a reoccurring theme.

01:23:49.000 One of the things that's also a big part of this life that we all are living right now is this very recent disconnect between our neighbors, our friends, by commuting to work and being stuck in this stuffy environment where you can't express yourself normally.

01:24:11.000 And this is the majority of your life, the majority of your time.

01:24:13.000 And then we wonder why we're sad.

01:24:15.000 We don't spend enough time together with friends.

01:24:18.000 Here's when you aren't sad.

01:24:21.000 When you're having fun with your friends.

01:24:23.000 Because that's what human beings are meant to do.

01:24:25.000 They're meant to work together, to do something together, like something meaningful.

01:24:29.000 It's the core of your healing.

01:24:31.000 We're meant to have community.

01:24:32.000 We're meant to have friends.

01:24:34.000 We're meant to laugh.

01:24:35.000 We're meant to share experiences.

01:24:37.000 We're meant to care for each other. 1.00

01:24:39.000 And when that's not happening in your life, you feel like shit. 0.99

01:24:43.000 What you're doing is spreading the fingers of your community. 0.99

01:24:47.000 You're spreading the branches of your community.

01:24:49.000 By expressing yourself and helping other people.

01:24:52.000 By expressing yourself and inspiring other people.

01:24:54.000 By sending your message out there.

01:24:56.000 This is a type of community for people that are longing for community.

01:25:00.000 You're connecting with people.

01:25:02.000 People that are longing to feel a connection.

01:25:05.000 This is something that's missing.

01:25:07.000 This is something that's greatly missing in our society.

01:25:10.000 And you understand it more than most.

01:25:15.000 Because your time That they forced you to be separate from community.

01:25:21.000 That they gave you the opposite of community.

01:25:24.000 If you communicated, they beat you up.

01:25:26.000 They gave you the opposite of community.

01:25:27.000 They locked you in a cage, didn't let you mingle with other people.

01:25:31.000 And then the people that were around you, you didn't want to mingle with them.

01:25:34.000 Horrific people that are just the worst examples of a life gone wrong.

01:25:40.000 And you're surrounded with them and you still emerged.

01:25:42.000 And just that alone gives people hope.

01:25:45.000 And that hope is something that everybody needs.

01:25:47.000 I was a good person on death row to the point that a man named Tom Lowenstein wanted to write a book about me.

01:25:54.000 And I turned him on to Walter Ograd, who's still sitting on death row.

01:25:58.000 And I asked him to write the book about Walter.

01:26:00.000 And then CNN Death Row Stories wanted to contact me and have Susan's friend and narrate my story two and a half years ago.

01:26:07.000 I told him again, Walter's still on death row, man.

01:26:10.000 Do it for him.

01:26:12.000 What's Walter's story?

01:26:15.000 Walter Ogreib was convicted of killing a little girl and putting her in a TV box, but he didn't do it.

01:26:20.000 And he had the misfortune of having his brother attacked in his house and nearly murdered and being brought in for that investigation.

01:26:27.000 And then simply asked by a detective, hey, there's a girl killed on your street. 0.85

01:26:31.000 Did you know anything about it?

01:26:32.000 He goes, yeah, I know about it.

01:26:34.000 Next thing you know, he's facing death row.

01:26:37.000 So a jury finds him not guilty, but for the sabotage of one juror, he ends up on death row.

01:26:43.000 What do you mean, sabotage of one juror?

01:26:45.000 He voted not guilty.

01:26:46.000 And then he blurts out during the Valdir, I lied, I lied, he's guilty.

01:26:49.000 So they declare a mistrial.

01:26:51.000 Get the guy, they call the Monsignor to come in and say that now he confessed to him.

01:26:56.000 They have a second trial. 0.98

01:26:57.000 So they put Walter on death row and I meet him and everybody's abusing the shit out of him. 0.98

01:27:03.000 So... 0.97

01:27:05.000 I did the unnatural thing.

01:27:07.000 I stood up for him, for all the bullies, and I told the two men that were abusing him, if they put their hands on him again, I was going to get involved.

01:27:14.000 And I started helping Walter with his lawyers, and ever since I got out of prison, I kept my word to stick by him and fight for him.

01:27:21.000 So I gave up opportunities, could have changed my life, and now Death Row Stories is back, and they're going to do my story.

01:27:28.000 And Walter's still on Death Row right now.

01:27:30.000 Yeah, and he's innocent.

01:27:31.000 What can be done to help Walter?

01:27:33.000 Contact Tom Wolfe and ask him why the Innocence Projects and the Integrity Unions won't take up his case.

01:27:40.000 There's no evidence.

01:27:41.000 And it was clearly, I mean, when you see the show on Defro Stories, it's just laid out so clear.

01:27:48.000 I was a little disappointed they didn't mention me that I turned them on to Walter.

01:27:52.000 My selfless act was overlooked, but that was just my ego.

01:27:55.000 But I always am like that.

01:27:57.000 And that's what I love.

01:27:58.000 I know that they were despicable, Joe.

01:28:01.000 And the acts that a lot of men did were despicable.

01:28:04.000 But if I let that stop me from loving any of them, then I was going to be nothing.

01:28:10.000 So, yeah, a lot of them were really messed up, man.

01:28:13.000 But the ones that needed it, I set aside everything and still cared about them, man.

01:28:17.000 So spell out Walter's name for people.

01:28:20.000 O-G-R-O-D. Ogrod. 1.00

01:28:22.000 Walter Ogrod was convicted of putting a little girl in a box in Philadelphia.

01:28:27.000 We need to get Kim Kardashian on the case. 0.96

01:28:29.000 Yeah, man, because this is...

01:28:31.000 She's getting people released from prison. 1.00

01:28:33.000 Hey, Kim, if you want to get someone a pardon, it's Walter.

01:28:37.000 This man has suffered enormously.

01:28:39.000 What prison is he in?

01:28:40.000 He's in Greene County Supermax in Pennsylvania.

01:28:45.000 I fought for my other friend, Ernie Simmons.

01:28:48.000 He got out.

01:28:48.000 Here it is.

01:28:49.000 The Trials of Walter Ogrod.

01:28:51.000 Yeah.

01:28:52.000 The Shocking Murder, So-Called Confessions, and Notorious Snitch to Sent a Man to Death Row.

01:28:56.000 Tom Lowenstein came to me while I was still on death row in 2002. And he said, Nick, my God, your story.

01:29:03.000 I want to write a book about you.

01:29:04.000 And I said, yeah, that's brilliant.

01:29:06.000 But how about the guy sitting next to me who doesn't have lawyers or DNA or anybody to help him?

01:29:11.000 How about helping him?

01:29:13.000 He goes, are you crazy you're giving up an opportunity?

01:29:15.000 I said, dude, it ain't like that.

01:29:17.000 I love this man.

01:29:19.000 He has no lawyers like I do.

01:29:21.000 So that's who I am.

01:29:24.000 So I didn't take credit for it, but I really did try to help another man because I felt like I would be so disappointing if I just took and took and took for myself.

01:29:36.000 And you know, I'm actually grateful I didn't go on your podcast two years ago.

01:29:40.000 I was a homeless person without a family.

01:29:43.000 And now I got the two amazing girls, Zara and Bethany, and my wife Laura.

01:29:49.000 These two English girls get the dream life change. 1.00

01:29:52.000 They get to move from Somerset, England out here to Oregon.

01:29:55.000 And my little girl gets on a yellow school bus, Joe.

01:29:58.000 She goes the bus.

01:29:59.000 Every day she's in school.

01:30:03.000 I'm in the community.

01:30:04.000 I got all these wonderful friends up in Oregon like Donnie Hobbs and these guys that are my personal friends now.

01:30:09.000 I built my community again.

01:30:11.000 I got all these cool people up there that love me.

01:30:15.000 My wife's right now in Salem with her friend Carly and they're opening up a new shop up there and all this stuff.

01:30:21.000 So I really did it.

01:30:23.000 Despite not having anything, I did exactly what you said.

01:30:26.000 I went and overcame the deprivation and found community and built my tribe.

01:30:32.000 Look, I know a lot of people struggle to have people in their life that aren't causing them conflict.

01:30:37.000 It's you who's allowing it, man.

01:30:39.000 Go out and find new people to be around because a lot of people want you if you're a nice person.

01:30:44.000 It's just hard for people to find those people sometimes, and that's where they lose hope.

01:30:48.000 One of the things, they don't know where to get started.

01:30:53.000 They don't know how to get their life going, how to get moving, how to feel good, how to get success.

01:30:59.000 There's so many different things.

01:31:02.000 To those people, I say, just do something.

01:31:05.000 The more things you do, the more things you can do.

01:31:07.000 Do something.

01:31:08.000 Do anything.

01:31:09.000 Whether it's commit to walking around the block ten times a night.

01:31:12.000 Whether it's committing to writing your life story.

01:31:18.000 And you know what stops a lot of people is their self imagery, right?

01:31:22.000 All right.

01:31:23.000 I was convicted of a rape and murder and in everyone's eyes I was a psychologically deranged person.

01:31:29.000 I had to live with that stigma every day, right? 0.99

01:31:32.000 Then when I got out, everybody thought I must be crazy as fuck because I spent 8,057 days in solitary confinement being tortured. 0.98

01:31:40.000 So there's no way I could be sane, right? 0.99

01:31:43.000 Right.

01:31:45.000 Their perspective had no effect on me because by that time I had given myself enough education to know the difference between what was done to me and who I am.

01:31:56.000 And this is the problem with a lot of people.

01:31:58.000 They failed to stop doing this thing where I am this or I am that.

01:32:04.000 And this is the problem.

01:32:06.000 So I really have never cared about the perspective of anyone in the negative, except for when they got it wrong for my intent to do good with them.

01:32:19.000 And then it just became a battle of my own ego. 0.78

01:32:22.000 So I realized that the truth is, As long as I know I'm doing right and I'm doing good, it isn't going to matter about their perspective because the same person who thought I was a rapist scumbag murderer now thinks I'm one of the most eloquent speakers they met in their life. 0.91

01:32:36.000 Their perspective about me changed, but mine surely shouldn't. 0.92

01:32:40.000 But it did.

01:32:41.000 And that's what a lot of people suffer from.

01:32:43.000 They let that negative comment make them feel like they have to overcome it or they have to live with it.

01:32:48.000 And I tell you what, Joe, I really never expected this, but for the first time in my life from conducting an interview, throughout the whole process, I've been reevaluating who I am and what I'm saying. 0.99

01:32:59.000 It's like a fucking slap in the face, man. 0.97

01:33:01.000 Like I came in here bedraggled with my emotions, carrying them on my sleeves and all the stress. 1.00

01:33:07.000 I haven't slept well for days.

01:33:08.000 I haven't taken care of myself. 0.99

01:33:09.000 That's bullshit. 0.98

01:33:11.000 I didn't do well in articulating and you gave me a wake-up call that I've never had before in any experience. 0.98

01:33:19.000 You can go back and look through the history of the many experiences I've had of interviews and I've done some outstanding ones.

01:33:26.000 I've never had a personal experience where throughout the course of speaking to another man, I started to reevaluate everything I held firmly to. 0.98

01:33:35.000 And I promise you, I'm gonna go and think a whole lot about this and get my shit together because I do owe it to a lot of people to be one badass motherfucker with a hell of a message. 0.98

01:33:44.000 You owe it to yourself. 1.00

01:33:46.000 Damn straight, man. 0.97

01:33:47.000 I'm going to do that. 0.96

01:33:48.000 I really am, man.

01:33:50.000 So, if you want me to come and speak before your corporate functions or a high school or a university, I'd do that better than anyone.

01:33:58.000 In fact, I'm one of the finest speakers on the planet and I learned it because I watched Bruce Springsteen.

01:34:04.000 Do you remember that speech he gave at the Oscars for Philadelphia?

01:34:08.000 No.

01:34:08.000 I never watched the Oscars.

01:34:10.000 Dude, get that up. 1.00

01:34:11.000 My God.

01:34:12.000 Bruce Springsteen is one of the finest speakers.

01:34:14.000 I think we'd get yanked off of YouTube, unfortunately, if we put it up.

01:34:16.000 No, but just the image.

01:34:17.000 But dude gave one of the most profound speeches I ever watched. 0.90

01:34:21.000 He's a beast.

01:34:21.000 Dude can speak beautifully.

01:34:23.000 Bruce Springsteen's a bad motherfucker. 0.99

01:34:23.000 He made the nexus point between music and imagery so poignant. 0.99

01:34:29.000 That I was blown away by it so much so that when we made the documentary, Fear of 13, that's all I kept imagining when I spoke was the imagery we would be lended.

01:34:40.000 And I love the fact that I worked very hard to bring the whole audience into my cell one time to spend with me my story in a way that no one ever did before. 0.93

01:34:53.000 And I fucking rocked it. 0.79

01:34:54.000 That's awesome. 0.98

01:34:57.000 Yeah, I like that.

01:34:58.000 I like the fact that I know I have talent in that field.

01:35:01.000 I don't want to boast, but I have a gift.

01:35:04.000 And it came light years ahead of me when I watched.

01:35:07.000 I had 400 students in Ealing enraptured at a conference.

01:35:14.000 My friend, an educator named Edmund Dobson, set this whole thing up.

01:35:18.000 I go there.

01:35:19.000 You can hear a pin drop.

01:35:21.000 Because all along, somewhere along the way, an energy clicks in and I can hold the room in the palm of my hand.

01:35:32.000 I've had some amazing experiences with it.

01:35:35.000 I don't know how to stay it, but that cult of personality lure of being on the stage and talking to people is powerful, man.

01:35:47.000 And I can see why Tony Robbins and everybody gets up and they do that.

01:35:51.000 I'm not a life coach.

01:35:52.000 I can't coach no one's life.

01:35:54.000 But I can tell you about your life in ways that would make you really invigorated to want to make a better life for yourself.

01:36:03.000 But no one could truly be your life coach. 1.00

01:36:05.000 You got to do that shit yourself. 1.00

01:36:07.000 And I love it. 1.00

01:36:09.000 I love it that I understood those moments because one of the coolest things was I used to...

01:36:15.000 Go to the Globe Theatre.

01:36:17.000 Anybody that understands Shakespeare understands the Globe Theatre is the center of the world for Shakespeare.

01:36:22.000 They would perform Titus Antronicus and then after which Cleopatra would come out on stage and introduce me to the cloud.

01:36:31.000 Now I had eight minutes, ten minutes tops to do this thing.

01:36:36.000 And in eight to ten minutes, I had a crowd who had been spending for three hours long play, crying, putting money in a bucket for what I said to them, and did it flawlessly every time.

01:36:48.000 And I did it for a whole summer in London.

01:36:50.000 It was the most amazing experience to stand there and look out over this vista of London after you did this amazing thing where people never expected you.

01:36:59.000 And you are nothing to do with the theatre.

01:37:02.000 You are just a human rights charity chosen by the theatre to come out and speak.

01:37:06.000 And I realized at that moment I had a gift.

01:37:09.000 If I could get people who had been standing for three hours watching a play to have wet tears in their eyes, put money, shoving it into a bucket for me, Then I knew I had some ability to finally speak.

01:37:22.000 I was no longer an aphasia-affected, destroyed, distorted mind, addled by drugs, and used beyond belief to distortions of...

01:37:32.000 Like, I was so screwed up to come back to do that. 0.95

01:37:36.000 I knew I was...

01:37:37.000 Do you know I wrote this whole book in only three days?

01:37:41.000 I have a gift, Joe, like seriously.

01:37:44.000 I wrote, and I have witnesses, I wrote the whole book in two and a half days, man.

01:37:50.000 Because it was in me.

01:37:52.000 This story, Monsters and Mad Men, was so powerful.

01:37:56.000 That when I met Laura, my wife, I told her, I said, you know what?

01:37:59.000 I'm going to finally do it, man.

01:38:01.000 I'm going to get this out.

01:38:02.000 And it just came out.

01:38:04.000 For two and a half days, I barely slept, ate, did anything.

01:38:08.000 All I did was make love to my wife on a break or write, and I mean poured it out.

01:38:13.000 And I poured out the whole book, and I realized that was needed to move on.

01:38:19.000 And it's the best book I ever wrote in my life.

01:38:22.000 And I'm so proud that it's my last one because I don't have to worry about no more stories.

01:38:26.000 I did the thing that was great.

01:38:28.000 All right, so this one changed.

01:38:29.000 This is really Fear of 13, my countdown to execution.

01:38:33.000 It went through hell.

01:38:34.000 It got canceled.

01:38:36.000 It's now Fear of 13. Then I wrote The Kindness Approach.

01:38:39.000 I did one called My Journey Through Her Eyes.

01:38:42.000 I didn't bring a copy.

01:38:44.000 Wait a minute.

01:38:44.000 Do you not want to write?

01:38:46.000 Why do you say that you're done?

01:38:49.000 Because I crafted my series of books that create and captivate my whole entire message, and I want to leave it pure.

01:38:57.000 I don't want to then go on and make up falsifications of things that didn't happen.

01:39:04.000 So all these are non-fiction?

01:39:06.000 All these are non-fiction.

01:39:07.000 All these events are true and poignant to my life.

01:39:10.000 And I think that's the best thing to do.

01:39:12.000 Stay true to who I am.

01:39:13.000 I was going to tell one story called That's Enough for Me as a fictionalized writer, just to show everybody my talent.

01:39:21.000 Because people in the past have said, wow, you can write anything.

01:39:24.000 So I was going to do that, but I held back because I thought, I want to leave it cool.

01:39:29.000 I want to leave it like this is my series of work.

01:39:31.000 My work is I wrote two prison books and I wrote two books that will guide people in life how not to be screwed up or bitter.

01:39:40.000 And I want to leave that as my message.

01:39:44.000 I want to go and do other things, but those are my books and I'm proud of the work I did.

01:39:48.000 I got it out of my system.

01:39:49.000 I'm a published author.

01:39:50.000 I can go down in history as that, right?

01:39:53.000 I'm cool with that.

01:39:54.000 I don't really want to then push it and think that I can then lure people into reading more works that I can try because that's not really fair to them.

01:40:02.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:40:03.000 I want to keep it that way.

01:40:05.000 I think that's one of the things I want to try and stay true to.

01:40:08.000 Now, speaking, that's my love.

01:40:11.000 Now, Nick, if someone wanted to hire you to speak, where would they go?

01:40:15.000 NickYarris.org.

01:40:16.000 So it's really simple.

01:40:18.000 Everyone on the podcast can easily find me on the other social medias.

01:40:22.000 But I have, like I said, my really close friends, Adam Callahan and his wife just had a baby.

01:40:27.000 So they're running my website, NickYarris.org.

01:40:30.000 And a lot of people can reach me for functions like that.

01:40:34.000 I really love the fact that I have a chance also with this myverse.com to go ahead and go into schools.

01:40:40.000 And there's a really cool thing.

01:40:42.000 You know, this X generation times three, man, they're like so computer savvy, right? 1.00

01:40:48.000 So much so that you actually are starting a trend.

01:40:51.000 There's no longer 15 minutes of fame.

01:40:53.000 There's the five second video clip of fame now.

01:40:58.000 And it's been reduced.

01:40:59.000 It's just like everything's five seconds.

01:41:00.000 You know what I mean?

01:41:00.000 It's no longer.

01:41:01.000 So everything in the education field is coming faster and faster.

01:41:05.000 So we need to use the analytics of something like Myverse to go ahead and get a child to figure out who they can go and be in their careers and then follow that correct path.

01:41:14.000 You can't just throw it against the wall anymore, Joe.

01:41:17.000 You have to really work hard to get children to feel good about being a taxi driver, a painter, It's not no shame to be a person who goes out and does a simple manual job.

01:41:30.000 If that makes you happy as a human being, you should be able to do that without the stigma, right?

01:41:35.000 But the school's not going to tell you that.

01:41:38.000 They're going to tell you you could be anything, right?

01:41:40.000 But why wouldn't you want to find out what would make you happy in life and be that, right?

01:41:45.000 That makes sense to me.

01:41:47.000 You're not going to learn that from school.

01:41:49.000 You'll learn that from people.

01:41:50.000 You'll learn that from people and you'll learn that from online more than anything today.

01:41:55.000 And that's why I want to be involved in the educational field.

01:41:58.000 I think that's my greatest gift is someone who went to prison, who hadn't ever read a book, who accomplished the things that he did, then can share how the purpose of my education was so that I was able to process life enough to handle it.

01:42:13.000 To give myself enough separation to realize who I was as a human being is not the sum total of my misery.

01:42:20.000 And that I could then help others structure their lives through politeness to go and get a good education.

01:42:27.000 And I love that fact that I worked so hard through all these different things to not lose that message, man.

01:42:34.000 And it really does work for a lot of young people.

01:42:37.000 They find that their self-respect really does grow when someone gives them just a small little bit of a break, man.

01:42:47.000 They're so honest.

01:42:48.000 I love it.

01:42:49.000 I'll never tire of it in that one regard because I've touched so many young people's lives, man.

01:42:53.000 That's beautiful.

01:42:55.000 Nick, that's a great message.

01:42:57.000 And thanks for being here, man.

01:42:58.000 I really appreciate it.

01:42:59.000 I'm glad we did this.

01:43:00.000 Yeah, me too.

01:43:01.000 I really do.

01:43:01.000 Can I give a quick shot at this?

01:43:03.000 All right.

01:43:03.000 So I got some good friends of mine.

01:43:05.000 I really messed up on Alex Ortiz and I like these young dudes, these fighters.

01:43:10.000 Joe, they're all mad about you and I like it.

01:43:13.000 What do you think about the Bellator anyway?

01:43:15.000 Love it.

01:43:15.000 Yeah?

01:43:16.000 Yeah.

01:43:16.000 I think we need more.

01:43:17.000 We need more organizations like that.

01:43:18.000 But I think Bellator is doing a great job.

01:43:20.000 Yeah, Jesse Kozakowski is going to fight this month up there.

01:43:23.000 And I like the fact that his father teaches that Kung Tao with that prison style of martial arts.

01:43:28.000 I don't know what that is.

01:43:29.000 Oh, well, it's the old style.

01:43:31.000 It's like, it isn't like the martial arts that most people would know because it's...

01:43:38.000 Derived from the Filipino prison systems.

01:43:40.000 It's like really pure styles of quick attacks and stuff like that.

01:43:44.000 So this isn't the boxing.

01:43:45.000 But no, I like it that dudes like Mike Kimball and all these guys have been really supportive to me.

01:43:51.000 And everyone, like I said, that knew I was coming on here, I just want to tell them, if I forgot who you are, thank you all for being so supportive.

01:43:58.000 And I really want to say thank you to my wife for being so there for me lately.

01:44:03.000 And I'm really grateful that we've learned in this wonderful lesson that I might belong to you, sweetheart, but I also have some good left to do.

01:44:12.000 And I'm going to try and do both well.

01:44:14.000 And I'm very grateful to everyone listening, especially to you, Mr. Rogan.

01:44:18.000 You're a really nice young man.

01:44:20.000 Thanks, man.

01:44:21.000 I'm grateful to you as well.

01:44:22.000 No, I mean that, Joe.

01:44:23.000 And I know you're going to do something.

01:44:24.000 I know, but you said I'm a nice young man like my grandma.

01:44:26.000 You're a nice young man.

01:44:28.000 Hey, even better.

01:44:29.000 I'm your sexy granddad.

01:44:31.000 Give me some love, boy.

01:44:32.000 Thank you, man.

01:44:32.000 Go and have a good day, everyone.

01:44:33.000 I love you around the world.

01:44:34.000 Bye, bye, bye.

01:44:35.000 Martin Mucci.

01:44:36.000 Oh, man.

01:44:37.000 Bye, bye, bye.

01:44:39.000 Bye everybody.

01:44:41.000 Let's go, man.

The Joe Rogan Experience - September 11, 2018

Joe Rogan Experience #1171 - Nick Yarris

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript