The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1200 - Ross Edgley

00:00:03.000 Four, three, two, one.

00:00:09.000 Dude.

00:00:12.000 First of all, what possessed you to want to swim around the entire UK? How many thousands of miles is that?

00:00:20.000 Yeah, 2,000 miles altogether.

00:00:23.000 2,000 miles of swimming.

00:00:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:00:26.000 Yeah, it seemed like a good idea at the time and then halfway around I realized how big Great Britain was.

00:00:31.000 You've done some long swims before.

00:00:36.000 But, not like, nothing even remotely.

00:00:39.000 Like, what's the longest swim you did before this?

00:00:40.000 Yeah, I did...

00:00:41.000 Oh, this is a bit of a strange story.

00:00:43.000 I did...

00:00:43.000 I tried to swim between St. Lucia and Martinique, two Caribbean islands.

00:00:48.000 It's only 40 kilometers from point to point.

00:00:50.000 And for charity, I was trying to swim from point to point with a 100-pound tree attached to my trunks.

00:00:57.000 So I was pulling the 100-pound tree, six-foot waves crashing down, and I actually didn't make it from point to point.

00:01:03.000 I was like, five kilometers from the end.

00:01:06.000 And when I didn't make it, I decided to swim back the other way.

00:01:09.000 So I ended up swimming over a hundred kilometers with a hundred pound tree.

00:01:14.000 It took me 32 hours, but still didn't make it.

00:01:17.000 What went wrong where you didn't make it?

00:01:20.000 Tides, currents, you know.

00:01:22.000 Oh, you just got swept away?

00:01:23.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:01:24.000 Especially attached to a tree, right?

00:01:26.000 How big was this tree?

00:01:27.000 So a hundred pounds, but I mean it floats, but it was more the drag.

00:01:31.000 Right.

00:01:31.000 So if there's any influence from tides or currents and it's pulling you in one direction, I mean, I was basically going to miss Martinique.

00:01:37.000 So I don't know, I was heading to Cuba, you know, somewhere like that.

00:01:40.000 And then on the way back down, you know, they turned to me again and they said, like, you're going to miss St. Lucia.

00:01:45.000 You're going to end up in, I don't know, whatever's further south than St. Lucia.

00:01:50.000 And I think I realised as physically fit as you are, the ocean just doesn't care.

00:01:57.000 It doesn't care.

00:01:58.000 And so after that, this was last year, this was November last year, kind of felt I had unfinished business with the ocean.

00:02:06.000 Came back to England, rung up friends of mine at the Royal Marines.

00:02:11.000 I said, guys, look, this is going to sound so, so strange.

00:02:13.000 I said, but I just, I need to get out my system.

00:02:16.000 I just need to see how far I can swim in 48 hours.

00:02:18.000 So I swam 48 hours.

00:02:20.000 I can't remember what it was in there.

00:02:22.000 I think it was 160 kilometers, something like that.

00:02:24.000 And I finished and I had basically trench foot.

00:02:27.000 So where your feet and your hands are so kind of, I've got so much water in that it's almost going moldy.

00:02:34.000 Yeah, so I'm sort of sitting there nursing my feet and one of the officers, a good friend of mine, they came over and they just said, you know, real English Royal Marine, they said, you boy?

00:02:46.000 And I said, yes.

00:02:48.000 And they said, what are you training for?

00:02:49.000 And I said, oh, I'm training for potentially attempting the world's longest current neutral swim.

00:02:57.000 And then he just paused and he sipped his cup of tea and he looked me up and down and he just goes, That just sounds a bit lame.

00:03:03.000 I was like, okay, what do you want me to do?

00:03:06.000 And he pauses and he says, you just need to man up.

00:03:09.000 You need to man up and swim around Great Britain.

00:03:11.000 And I was like...

00:03:12.000 Whoa.

00:03:13.000 And I can't...

00:03:13.000 I couldn't say no once the idea...

00:03:15.000 You should have said, why don't you swim with me, bitch? 1.00

00:03:18.000 I'll do it if you do it, motherfucker. 1.00

00:03:20.000 That's a crazy thing for somebody to be asking you to do. 1.00

00:03:23.000 I know, right?

00:03:25.000 So I said, fine.

00:03:26.000 Once the idea stuck with me, I mean, we've got this real history and heritage of British eccentric explorers.

00:03:35.000 And for me, growing up, there was a story of Captain Webb, the first guy to swim across the English Channel.

00:03:40.000 And for those who don't know, English Channel, the tides, they believed, were too strong.

00:03:44.000 The water was too cold.

00:03:45.000 They said, you just can't make it across the English Channel.

00:03:48.000 It's impossible.

00:03:49.000 But Captain Webb refused to listen and 1875 August crossed the English Channel, and this is the part I love, on a diet of beef broth and brandy in a woolen wetsuit.

00:03:59.000 He swam, I think it was 23 hours, breaststroke with his head out the water because, and I quote, front crawl was ungentlemanly like.

00:04:08.000 And there was that element that I just thought, that's amazing.

00:04:12.000 Front crawl.

00:04:12.000 What is the front crawl?

00:04:13.000 So basically, that's front crawl.

00:04:15.000 The regular one.

00:04:16.000 Yeah, but way back in 1875, it was like, no, that's...

00:04:19.000 He thought it was ungentlemanly.

00:04:20.000 Yeah.

00:04:21.000 The movements themselves.

00:04:23.000 Yeah, it was still being developed as a technique, whereas, you know, if you were a gentleman and you were a swimmer, You swim breaststroke.

00:04:29.000 Wow.

00:04:30.000 Exactly.

00:04:30.000 Head out of the water the whole time?

00:04:32.000 The whole way.

00:04:33.000 23 hours.

00:04:34.000 And again, the support boat was saying, you know, get out.

00:04:37.000 You're not going to make it.

00:04:38.000 You're not going to make it.

00:04:39.000 And he just refused.

00:04:40.000 And 23 hours.

00:04:40.000 So, you know, that's part of a night swim as well.

00:04:42.000 Head out of the water just all the way.

00:04:44.000 Why brandy? 0.98

00:04:45.000 Is he getting fucked up or just a little bit of brandy? 0.99

00:04:49.000 You know, I don't know, maybe. 0.97

00:04:50.000 It might have been a bit of Dutch courage, but I think there was, you know, certainly back then, sports nutrition isn't what it is today.

00:04:56.000 Right.

00:04:56.000 So I think there was an element.

00:04:57.000 He was even, like, lubing himself up in goose fat.

00:05:00.000 You know, this is way back.

00:05:01.000 To make himself slicker?

00:05:03.000 Slicker, and I think there was an element of warmth, or that was certainly the belief.

00:05:06.000 Right.

00:05:07.000 The Tour de France guys, didn't they drink wine?

00:05:10.000 That was, like, a big thing back in the day?

00:05:12.000 Way back, yeah.

00:05:13.000 I mean, it wasn't until long ago.

00:05:14.000 Me and Jamie were just talking now about football back in England, and it wasn't until...

00:05:18.000 You know, too long ago, I think maybe a hundred years ago, they used to just keep brandy in the dressing room in case you needed to warm yourself up.

00:05:25.000 Really?

00:05:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:05:27.000 Wow, so they would play soccer drunk.

00:05:30.000 Yeah, kind of, just like with a little bit in there, but like you said, just warm yourself up.

00:05:33.000 Just a little bit of something.

00:05:34.000 Exactly.

00:05:35.000 Get the old engine turning over.

00:05:37.000 Exactly.

00:05:37.000 Wow.

00:05:38.000 Wow.

00:05:38.000 And I think, you know, people don't understand that it's taken, you know, people like Captain Webb, maybe me to a smaller extent, to just raise the bar, push the boundaries.

00:05:48.000 And, you know, you've seen that.

00:05:51.000 I think our generation have seen that with the UFC, with mixed martial arts that has evolved so fast.

00:05:57.000 I always remember Forrest Griffin used to kind of liken himself to the basketball players just shooting three-pointers with the ball between the legs.

00:06:04.000 And that always resonated with me because I was like, yeah, the evolution that we've seen and what sort of Bruce Lee had the foresight to predict.

00:06:13.000 It's amazing.

00:06:14.000 And I think in a much, much, much smaller way, again, to go back to sort of British athletes and adventurers, Roger Bannister, you know, first guy to run a four-minute mile.

00:06:23.000 And people said couldn't be done.

00:06:25.000 And he was a medical student at the time.

00:06:27.000 Leading physician said, you can't do it.

00:06:28.000 Your lungs will explode.

00:06:29.000 Your legs will fall off.

00:06:30.000 All sorts.

00:06:31.000 But no, he said, you know, Oxford laced up his trainers and ran a four-minute mile.

00:06:37.000 Similar right now to what I think we're seeing with Kipchoge, you know, and the two-hour marathon.

00:06:42.000 And so that's why, and again, in a much, much smaller way, when I had that conversation about swimming around Great Britain, everybody said, it can't be done.

00:06:51.000 Yes, it's 2,000 miles, but there's giant whirlpools in Scotland called the Coriovecan, Penland Firth, renowned around the world.

00:06:58.000 If you get that wrong, you're disappearing backwards at 10 knots.

00:07:02.000 There's no way you're swimming against that.

00:07:04.000 And 10 knots, that's a dolphin speed.

00:07:07.000 Jeez.

00:07:08.000 What is 10 knots in miles per hour?

00:07:10.000 Basically 10 miles per hour.

00:07:11.000 Oh my god.

00:07:13.000 10 miles per hour backwards as you're trying to go forwards.

00:07:16.000 Basically, yeah.

00:07:17.000 Penland First, at the top of Scotland, the currents that go across there.

00:07:20.000 So it's running in a good clip.

00:07:22.000 Oh yeah.

00:07:22.000 Backwards.

00:07:23.000 Yeah, I mean, we got it good.

00:07:24.000 We managed to basically predict it so well that I think that was probably my top speed, which I did 8.7 knots to 8.7 miles per hour.

00:07:32.000 I was basically cruising along the top, which is like a dolphin.

00:07:36.000 So you were having the waves behind you, pushing you almost.

00:07:40.000 And see, now that's what's interesting because I had the tides and currents with me, not necessarily the waves.

00:07:45.000 Yeah, I said it wrong.

00:07:46.000 And when you get, but actually you made a good point in terms of when you get wind over tide, so if you've got 10 knots going this way, but you've even got a little bit of wind and waves going this way, It can get choppy.

00:07:57.000 Oh, okay.

00:07:58.000 And again, sort of looking at West Scotland, wind over tide, you can get 40 knots coming straight down the barrel, but you're trying to swim with the tide.

00:08:08.000 Whoa.

00:08:09.000 Yeah.

00:08:10.000 So the wind is coming at you, but the tide is going the opposite way.

00:08:13.000 And as you can imagine, that just...

00:08:14.000 Oh my God.

00:08:15.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:08:16.000 So how do you predict this tide that you have to get right?

00:08:21.000 Yeah.

00:08:21.000 Yeah, I mean it's in completely in theory and this is what I realized when I when I sat down and we started Sort of plotting the great what is it called again?

00:08:29.000 What is the the issue that'll push you back?

00:08:32.000 Oh, just the title.

00:08:33.000 Yes.

00:08:33.000 What is it called that area?

00:08:35.000 Oh, you say you got to get right?

00:08:36.000 Oh, so Penland Firth Pend in Firth at the Penland for Pendland Firth.

00:08:41.000 Yeah, yeah, and that's that like I said renowned around the world, but but equally If you imagine the shape of Great Britain, there's all sorts of kind of compression where the water will just come rushing through.

00:08:53.000 And as well as the Penland Firth, you can get, you know, six knots around Wales.

00:08:57.000 There's an island called Skoma.

00:08:58.000 And if you get that right, you are disappearing up, you know, and you're winning.

00:09:03.000 You get it wrong.

00:09:04.000 Again, you're going backwards.

00:09:06.000 And for me to do a continuous stage swim, if I'm going backwards, I've got to start where I was going backwards.

00:09:14.000 So for me, getting every single tide right, and that's why I was so...

00:09:17.000 The team were amazing.

00:09:19.000 The captain, Matt, was just incredible that every night the homework began.

00:09:24.000 Jim, are we okay here?

00:09:25.000 No?

00:09:26.000 Did we crash?

00:09:27.000 Alright, folks, if you're listening or watching, we had a little technical difficulty, so this is not streaming live.

00:09:33.000 It will be uploaded later.

00:09:34.000 We were just going over how you predicted you had to, and your team had to predict how the tide was coming, because if it went wrong, you'd get pushed backwards at like 10 miles an hour.

00:09:45.000 Yeah.

00:09:46.000 And this is the thing, I think, with the Great British Swim, we were kind of taking swimming as most people understand it, and we were removing it and putting it in an arena that was so different.

00:09:58.000 And I think that's why it did so well kind of online.

00:10:02.000 We're good to go.

00:10:32.000 Around the coast of Great Britain, it wasn't just about swimming.

00:10:35.000 And that was what was really cool.

00:10:37.000 How do they know when the tides are going one way or the other?

00:10:41.000 How do they predict that?

00:10:42.000 Yeah, I mean, tides are so predictable.

00:10:44.000 So in theory, they change every six hours.

00:10:46.000 So in theory, when we sat down and we looked, we know that if you do six hours on, six hours off, For 157 days, you'll make it around the coast of Great Britain.

00:10:56.000 And that was the theory.

00:10:58.000 So you do this biphasic sleep and you swim for 12 hours a day.

00:11:01.000 But that's all theory.

00:11:03.000 There's times when, as I mentioned, giant whirlpools or the tides might not necessarily...

00:11:07.000 If you imagine, that's Great Britain there.

00:11:11.000 The tides don't necessarily go always like this, so they're not that predictable.

00:11:14.000 Sometimes, if there's kind of like this, like that's kind of whales there, the tides will do this.

00:11:20.000 You're doing all these different things that people are not going to see if they're listening to it on audio, so just try to describe it.

00:11:28.000 Right, so basically, rather than the tides just going up and down and working with you...

00:11:32.000 Sometimes they cross.

00:11:33.000 Yeah, so you're just kind of getting slapped across the face by tides, essentially.

00:11:37.000 And it's not just helping you.

00:11:39.000 You're going to basically zigzag all the way up the coast of Great Britain.

00:11:44.000 So as predictable as tides are, we found there was so much stuff that when we were out there, we were like, oh, it wasn't meant to do that.

00:11:50.000 Or a giant whirlpool wasn't meant to be there.

00:11:53.000 But it is.

00:11:54.000 And that was what was...

00:11:57.000 Pretty sketchy sometimes.

00:11:59.000 When we're out there, if a whirlpool just decides to appear, there's not really enough time to say, hang on, that wasn't on the map.

00:12:06.000 Can we look at that?

00:12:07.000 Can we speak to the Met Office and talk about weather reports?

00:12:10.000 No, you either had to swim through it or try and get out there as quick as you could.

00:12:14.000 So when you encounter something like that and you get stuck, do you pull out of the water and try back again later at the same location?

00:12:21.000 You do, but quite often, if it was there, it's still going to be there.

00:12:25.000 Oh, it is what it is.

00:12:26.000 Yeah, so sometimes there's no option.

00:12:29.000 And perhaps the best example of this, I mentioned it before, it's called the Corrie of Econ, so sort of west coast of Scotland.

00:12:36.000 And it's a giant whirlpool.

00:12:38.000 And Matt, the captain, turned to me and said, look, Ross, you know, I need you to swim and I need you to swim hard.

00:12:43.000 You need to swim six hours.

00:12:44.000 You just need to be clear of this whirlpool.

00:12:46.000 So as we were swimming past it, I set my watch, I swam hard for six hours, but about three hours in, I got stung by a jellyfish.

00:12:54.000 And I'd been stung by jellyfish a lot before.

00:12:57.000 It's painful, but it was bearable.

00:13:00.000 But this one particular jellyfish, it was searing into my skin.

00:13:04.000 It wouldn't stop throbbing.

00:13:06.000 And so I carried on swimming, three hours passed, and it was just unbearable.

00:13:10.000 So I popped my head up and I looked at Matt, the captain from the boat.

00:13:13.000 I said, Matt, I'm so sorry.

00:13:14.000 I've been stung.

00:13:15.000 I'm going to have to stop.

00:13:16.000 I've been stung by a jellyfish, but the pain's just not going away.

00:13:20.000 And as I said that to him, he looked down at me and he said, yeah, I know, because the tentacles still wrapped around your face.

00:13:25.000 So I'd basically been swimming for three hours.

00:13:28.000 With a jellyfish on your face.

00:13:30.000 Wearing a jellyfish.

00:13:31.000 So it wrapped into my goggles.

00:13:34.000 So I took my goggles off, unpeeled this fat tentacle, threw it away.

00:13:40.000 And then, like I said, I'll show you in a minute.

00:13:43.000 There was a picture where my face sort of changed shape and the goggles wouldn't fit on my face anymore because my eye sockets were so swelled.

00:13:52.000 But I knew that, again, for all of this happening, the Cori Ovec and the Giant Walpole was still to my left.

00:13:57.000 So Matt was like, you still need to swim.

00:13:59.000 You still need to swim.

00:13:59.000 So I ended up putting the goggles over my face.

00:14:01.000 And to try and get them to seal, I just punched them into my face.

00:14:06.000 So you just had these perfect rings.

00:14:08.000 Because you were so swollen.

00:14:09.000 Yeah.

00:14:10.000 So you had to push them through the swelling.

00:14:12.000 Basically.

00:14:12.000 Exactly, yeah.

00:14:13.000 Oh my god.

00:14:14.000 So you swim.

00:14:15.000 I made another hour.

00:14:16.000 We got clear of the Corrie of Ekans. 1.00

00:14:18.000 We managed to clear this giant whirlpool.

00:14:19.000 I collapse onto the boat.

00:14:21.000 And this is the thing.

00:14:23.000 It was at that point that I collapsed, exhausted, faced, now a different shape to when I started that particular swim.

00:14:29.000 And the team looked at me and they saw how bad I was, how beaten up I was.

00:14:34.000 But they also knew that the sea just doesn't care.

00:14:37.000 And in six hours, the tide was going to change and I'm going to have to do that all over again.

00:14:42.000 And it was that kind of...

00:14:45.000 Brutal lesson from nature that from a sports science background, I'm interested in, you know, rehab, rest, recovery, nutrition strategies, all of this.

00:14:54.000 But with swimming around Great Britain, it very quickly became apparent that the sea just doesn't care.

00:15:00.000 It just doesn't care that you need to rehab your shoulders.

00:15:04.000 It doesn't care that the ligaments and tendons in your shoulders are hurting.

00:15:06.000 You might get impingement from swimming too much.

00:15:09.000 None of this.

00:15:11.000 That's why it went from swimming as I understood it and how a lot of people understand it to something completely like surviving basically in the water.

00:15:20.000 So your swimming schedule would be six hours on and then you would try to rest.

00:15:25.000 When would you eat?

00:15:26.000 During the swims or between.

00:15:29.000 During the swims?

00:15:30.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:15:31.000 So quite often just throwing bananas at me.

00:15:34.000 Wow.

00:15:35.000 Salty bananas?

00:15:36.000 Basically, yeah.

00:15:37.000 Yeah, just salty bananas.

00:15:39.000 And you eat them while you're in the water?

00:15:40.000 Yeah.

00:15:41.000 Wow.

00:15:41.000 Yeah.

00:15:41.000 Because again, going back to what we were talking about with the Pendulum Firth, you could get out and you could get on the boat, but sometimes in a really good tide, if you are just in the water, you could be making four knots.

00:15:53.000 You don't have to swim, but if you get in the freezing cold water of Scotland and you are quite happy getting hit in the face by tentacles, you can still make four knots.

00:16:01.000 And so that's why so often it became about...

00:16:05.000 Something different than swimming.

00:16:07.000 It was just mental fortitude.

00:16:09.000 It was physical fortitude.

00:16:12.000 I always remember, actually, the first day of autumn, I got up, it was 2 o'clock, so it was a night swim, 2 o'clock in the morning, and I left my wetsuit out to dry, and I had to scrape just a thin layer of ice off the wetsuit before I could put it on.

00:16:27.000 But if I didn't get in and I didn't scrape that wear seat, then that would have been 15 miles potentially that we would have missed out on.

00:16:36.000 And if you miss those 15 miles, the window of opportunity to swim around Great Britain because of the British summer being notoriously unpredictable and quite short...

00:16:46.000 We wouldn't have made it round because even towards the end, there was two storms, Storm Allum and Storm Allie and Callum, who kind of stopped us for those two days where we couldn't swim because you just couldn't swim in a storm.

00:16:59.000 It wasn't safe.

00:17:00.000 So when you were swimming, this was all during the summer?

00:17:02.000 Yeah, yeah, through the autumn.

00:17:04.000 And then we finished November the 4th, which was going into the winter as well.

00:17:08.000 And you started what month?

00:17:10.000 June the 1st.

00:17:11.000 So since June, you've been swimming?

00:17:13.000 Yeah, basically. 1.00

00:17:16.000 God damn, man. 1.00

00:17:17.000 That's so crazy. 1.00

00:17:19.000 You know what's interesting, too?

00:17:21.000 You're not built like a guy I'd expect to be doing this.

00:17:25.000 You're built like a tank.

00:17:26.000 That's not normal. 0.99

00:17:28.000 You're a big jack guy.

00:17:29.000 You look more like an MMA fighter or a powerlifter, even.

00:17:33.000 You don't look like an endurance athlete.

00:17:35.000 Yeah, and we were speaking about this because I love the episode with you and C.T. Fletcher.

00:17:40.000 I love that guy.

00:17:41.000 I love that.

00:17:42.000 And I was a big fan of...

00:17:44.000 There you are. 1.00

00:17:44.000 Look at this fucking picture. 1.00

00:17:46.000 Yo, dude. 1.00

00:17:47.000 Get the fuck out of here. 1.00

00:17:49.000 If someone said that guy's going to swim around Great Britain, I'd be like, that guy's going to swim for half an hour and he's going to have a fucking heart attack. 1.00

00:17:54.000 No, you're right. 0.98

00:17:55.000 There was a lot.

00:17:56.000 Yeah, and I'd probably be inclined to agree with you.

00:17:58.000 But what I find interesting is when you start looking at strength and stamina, for so often people believe the two couldn't coexist.

00:18:06.000 And Robert Hickson and his sort of research around concurrent training, they're basically saying if you train for strength and stamina, You dilute the potency of the stimuli.

00:18:18.000 So what I mean by that is if we went into the gym just now and me, you and Jamie walked into the gym and we were like, okay, let's go and see what we're doing in the squat rack.

00:18:28.000 That's strength, your body's ability to generate force.

00:18:30.000 And we trained that and then all of a sudden I was like, okay, no, no, no, now let's go over to the rowing machine or let's go for a swim.

00:18:35.000 Let's go and swim 10K. Then all of a sudden our bodies are going to go, well, hang on, which one do you want us to adapt to?

00:18:41.000 Looking at molecular biology, which one Do you want us to adapt to strength or stamina?

00:18:46.000 And again, you dilute the potency of that stimuli.

00:18:48.000 However, there's the theory that if you separate them within the laws...

00:18:53.000 I'm going off on a little bit of a tangent here.

00:18:55.000 No, please.

00:18:55.000 Thank you.

00:18:56.000 It's good.

00:18:57.000 Looking at Verkashansky, one of the greatest strength and conditioning coaches to ever exist, he talks about this idea of adaptive energy, saying that in any given day, you have a certain amount of adaptive energy.

00:19:07.000 And if you are able to fit...

00:19:12.000 A training session that, like I said, causes your body to adapt to both strength and stamina and you separate them.

00:19:17.000 Under those conditions, they can coexist.

00:19:20.000 You separate them by how much time?

00:19:22.000 As much as is needed for optimal recovery.

00:19:24.000 So yeah, if we did, and this is what I find fascinating about MMA, because you're essentially saying to an MMA athlete, I need you to be strong, fast, quick.

00:19:34.000 I need you to be muscally endured, but I also need you to have plyometric speed strength. 0.71

00:19:38.000 And their body's going, you want us to be all of those things.

00:19:41.000 Right.

00:19:41.000 You know, and that's why quite often it's the athlete with a higher work capacity who can, you know, adapt to those.

00:19:47.000 Looking at like, you know, the Diaz brothers who just do triathlons for fun.

00:19:51.000 You know, they have this insane work capacity, you know, so that's kind of your body's ability to perform and positively tolerate training of a given intensity or duration.

00:20:00.000 Right.

00:20:01.000 So if you have the Diaz brothers and you say, okay, we're going to now do weight training in the morning, but by the afternoon I also need to go and swim a 10K, their bodies could tolerate that.

00:20:09.000 Right.

00:20:10.000 Whereas if you have another athlete who perhaps doesn't have that work capacity, their body's not going to positively tolerate it.

00:20:16.000 Right.

00:20:16.000 A person who's used to working out maybe only an hour a day.

00:20:19.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:20.000 So that's essentially how I would approach anything like this.

00:20:26.000 But what I found really interesting when you were talking with C.T. Fletcher was...

00:20:31.000 When you look at strength and stamina, it's so specific.

00:20:35.000 So, you know, said principle, specific adaptation to imposed demands, you know, you get good at whatever you continually practice.

00:20:41.000 And when you look at endurance in weight-bearing sports, absolutely, you know, you can argue that running, for instance, is just, you know, power-to-weight ratio.

00:20:51.000 It's a series of successive jumps.

00:20:53.000 And when you start looking at that, there's research that will show adding, and we did this with the Royal Marines back in England, when you just add one kilo of extra weight in a backpack, its effect on pulmonary ventilation, lactic threshold, time to fatigue, all of those things.

00:21:08.000 Just one kilogram, that's it.

00:21:10.000 And so that's why when you see Tour de France and people like Chris Froome, Bradley Wiggins, you know, from Team Sky, they are just looking at the body saying, okay, your VO2 is what it is, your power to weight ratio, that's what we need to improve.

00:21:21.000 We need to treat you like a Formula One car.

00:21:23.000 We need to take away anything, you know, so when you look at Chris Froome, you know, an unbelievable athlete, and they say, well, look, you don't need biceps, you don't need triceps, so they will remove those.

00:21:32.000 Controlled muscular atrophy.

00:21:34.000 How do they approach that?

00:21:37.000 Intelligently, I suppose, looking at anything from, you know, a calorie deficit...

00:21:40.000 Just tell them not to pick anything up, ever?

00:21:42.000 Kinda, yeah!

00:21:43.000 And it's just...

00:21:45.000 Exactly!

00:21:46.000 That's crazy!

00:21:46.000 There it is!

00:21:47.000 There you go!

00:21:48.000 Got no triceps!

00:21:49.000 They don't...

00:21:49.000 They went away!

00:21:50.000 Exactly!

00:21:51.000 But, I mean, that is...

00:21:52.000 That is the perfect example of, you know, said principle.

00:21:55.000 Specific adaptation to imposed demands.

00:21:58.000 That all he does is he lives on a bike.

00:22:00.000 So, as a result, his body is a byproduct of what he continually practices.

00:22:05.000 Just got bike muscles.

00:22:06.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:22:07.000 And so looking at that, and sorry, going back to strength and stamina, when you look at running, you could argue that, you know, being jacked and being heavier, yes, absolutely, your power to weight ratio is going to impact you.

00:22:20.000 So for instance, I like to run, but I don't stand a chance against some of my friends who are, you know, fell runners and they weigh, you know, 30 kilos less than me.

00:22:28.000 Like Rich.

00:22:29.000 Rich Roll.

00:22:30.000 Exactly.

00:22:31.000 Thin, lean, long guy.

00:22:33.000 Yeah, you look at an unbelievable specimen of a man.

00:22:36.000 You go, yes, you were built for endurance.

00:22:38.000 But as soon as you go in the water, things might start to change a little bit because now it's non-weight bearing.

00:22:43.000 So the power to weight ratio is a little bit different.

00:22:45.000 So then you could, and this is all theory for the moment, but looking at the body shape to swim around Great Britain, because no one's ever done it before.

00:22:53.000 So you can say, okay, what does that body type look like?

00:22:58.000 And when writing down a checklist, you say, we need someone who can swim in, you know, 40 knots of wind, wind over tide that we're talking about, so you're not going to break.

00:23:06.000 On top of that as well, you can start to look at, all of a sudden, we need someone who's never going to take a day off.

00:23:12.000 So I wasn't sick throughout those 157 days.

00:23:15.000 So there you start looking at adaptive energy and work capacity that we just spoke about.

00:23:20.000 And then all of a sudden, you can start getting real into the detail of looking at, okay, someone with a higher muscle mass, If they're able to effectively swim and their biomechanics are on point, so that's not, you know, this muscle mass isn't interfering with their biomechanics, could it be argued that that stored muscle glycogen can almost turn them into a human whale?

00:23:40.000 You know, that, yeah, you're right.

00:23:42.000 You put me into the pool with Michael Phelps and he laps me.

00:23:45.000 You know, to look at him swim, it's unbelievable.

00:23:48.000 He looks like a dolphin.

00:23:49.000 It's beautiful.

00:23:50.000 Right.

00:23:51.000 But when it comes to something like swimming around in Great Britain, it's just an eating competition, you know, with a little bit of swimming involved.

00:23:58.000 And you just need to make sure you don't break.

00:24:01.000 And that goes back to the tides as well, your body working with tides.

00:24:04.000 If you can just keep getting in the water for 157 days, 12 hours a day, and not break, you'll make it around Great Britain.

00:24:12.000 So you think the muscle mass aids you in that way?

00:24:15.000 I would argue, yes, yeah.

00:24:17.000 I mean, this is purely anecdotal, and I'd love to actually do more research into this, but certainly with a lot of athletes that I train with, it's almost like a bell curve.

00:24:25.000 So if you can imagine, you know, for those listening, like a bell curve like that, how would you describe that?

00:24:32.000 Just like a horseshoe.

00:24:34.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:35.000 So you can argue that here around endurance, so if you've got somebody who's, you know, to use Rich Roll as an example, an amazing swimmer, that over 10k, he's going to be amazing because his efficiency and everything.

00:24:45.000 But then past this point, so when we start looking at the mileage that we were covering, so sort of English Channel Swimmers, 20 miles plus a day, At this point, this leaner swimmer is going to start running out of muscle glycogen.

00:24:57.000 His biomechanics might break down because he doesn't have the strength to hold that position continually.

00:25:02.000 All of those things, the waves start crashing and he's starting to swim into 40 knots of wind.

00:25:06.000 What's going to happen?

00:25:08.000 Would you favour the leaner, quicker, more streamlined swimmer?

00:25:12.000 Or would you argue that the guy with more muscle mass here is going to continue to swim?

00:25:16.000 Not necessarily at the same pace, but would continue not to break.

00:25:20.000 I think it depends on who the man with the muscle mass is, because a lot of guys with muscle mass, they got that muscle mass from doing very low reps, high weight.

00:25:30.000 I mean, what kind of exercise do you do that gives you a build like that?

00:25:33.000 See, and that's a good point.

00:25:35.000 I mean, I loved what you did with Dorian Yates.

00:25:37.000 And I think when you start looking at the three mechanisms to build muscular hypertrophy, you start looking at Metabolic stress.

00:25:46.000 So metabolic stress being exactly what you just said.

00:25:49.000 Lots and lots of reps.

00:25:50.000 Dorian Yates has been a great example of that.

00:25:52.000 That is more muscular hypertrophy.

00:25:54.000 Bodybuilding-centric work.

00:25:56.000 That's metabolic stress.

00:25:57.000 Lots and lots of reps.

00:25:58.000 But then you can also look at mechanical tension.

00:26:00.000 So that's more your power lifters.

00:26:03.000 Really, really high weight, lower volume, just real strength, your body's ability to generate force.

00:26:08.000 That is what I do.

00:26:10.000 And yes, it's shown to induce muscular hypertrophy, so to increase muscle mass, but arguably more functional than when you'd be looking at a bodybuilder, Mr. Olympia, something like that.

00:26:21.000 And then you have muscle damage, which is more eccentric contraction, so more arguably sort of CrossFit.

00:26:28.000 So, a bodybuilder, to achieve that physique, besides using steroids, they have to use lots of repetitions?

00:26:35.000 Yes.

00:26:35.000 Is that the idea?

00:26:36.000 Yeah, that's it.

00:26:37.000 So, when you say, what do I specifically use?

00:26:40.000 It's more mechanical tension.

00:26:41.000 So, it's more powerlifting, cleans, deadlifts, things along those lines?

00:26:45.000 It's exactly it, yeah.

00:26:47.000 Yeah, because you're not built like a bodybuilder, but you're built like someone who's very strong.

00:26:51.000 Yeah, and I think that's it, where you start.

00:26:53.000 And that's not to say, you know, when you look at, you know, to use you as an example, so if we had you in the sports lab, we would say, okay, what is your strength deficit?

00:27:01.000 So your strength deficit is, you know, say we had you on, you know, the leg press, and we said, Joe, we want to look at how much force your legs can generate with you just using...

00:27:13.000 Basically, your training strength.

00:27:14.000 Your training strength is defined as the strength that you would use just leg pressing.

00:27:19.000 Not getting you all pre-workouts, smelling salts, none of that.

00:27:23.000 We would just say, Joe, go and leg press.

00:27:26.000 And you just leg press.

00:27:27.000 And that's what you can generate there.

00:27:28.000 But then, in the sports app back at Loughborough University, we would start using basically...

00:27:35.000 Basically using electrical impulses to make the muscles contract beyond what you could generate yourself.

00:27:41.000 So that is what your body could generate without you trying to send those impulses to the body.

00:27:45.000 It's you, the actual potential muscle, the strength of the muscles themselves.

00:27:50.000 How do you determine that?

00:27:52.000 Like I said, basically, electrocuting the muscles and stimulating it involuntarily.

00:27:57.000 And through that, do they measure it how?

00:28:00.000 So that measures your maximal output with you not trying to use it yourself.

00:28:06.000 It's involuntary.

00:28:07.000 So that is something that you wouldn't have control over.

00:28:09.000 So how do they do that?

00:28:11.000 Like, essentially, electrocuting you.

00:28:14.000 But what kind of, what is it, like electrodes that slap on your legs and they force you to extend your legs?

00:28:19.000 Yeah, you would have seen it.

00:28:20.000 Yeah, exactly that.

00:28:21.000 But that, you lift a weight with that?

00:28:23.000 Yeah, you can do.

00:28:24.000 So that's what they do?

00:28:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:28:26.000 I've never heard of such a thing.

00:28:27.000 So you would be sitting in a leg press?

00:28:30.000 Oh, or anything, so quad extensions.

00:28:33.000 And it would make your legs extend?

00:28:35.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:28:35.000 Wow.

00:28:36.000 So they would monitor your strength.

00:28:38.000 So the difference between that, so all of a sudden they'll say, okay, this over here, your training strength, is what you could do, Joe, when I was just saying, okay, lift that.

00:28:46.000 Right.

00:28:47.000 And it's what you were going, okay, I'll lift it.

00:28:48.000 And then over here, when it's involuntary, That is what you could actually do.

00:28:53.000 That's the potential of the muscles.

00:28:56.000 What's usually the higher number?

00:28:58.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:28:58.000 Well, so it's always involuntary.

00:29:00.000 Really?

00:29:01.000 Always.

00:29:01.000 Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:29:02.000 But how much?

00:29:03.000 And that's the strength deficit.

00:29:05.000 So do you see what I mean?

00:29:05.000 Okay, so over here, this is what you could generate when you're just going, okay, one, two, three, and I'm lifting it myself.

00:29:10.000 Ah, okay, that done.

00:29:11.000 And over here is what we do when it's involuntary.

00:29:14.000 Now, if there's a big deficit, okay, so if there's a huge deficit between the two... 1.00

00:29:19.000 That means you're a pussy? 1.00

00:29:20.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:29:22.000 It means if there's a large deficit between the two, it means that you have muscle mass, but you're not fully using it.

00:29:33.000 So you might see a large deficit between the two if you had a bodybuilder, for instance, because they've got a lot of muscle mass, but they're not using it.

00:29:41.000 Does that make sense?

00:29:42.000 Why aren't they using it?

00:29:43.000 Because strength is functional.

00:29:46.000 So they've got all this muscle mass, but they're not recruiting it.

00:29:49.000 They've not actually trained strength because strength is neuromuscular.

00:29:52.000 So when a bodybuilder does like high repetitions, and what was the type of load that you were calling that?

00:29:58.000 How that was...

00:30:01.000 Causing hypertrophy.

00:30:02.000 So that's metabolic stress.

00:30:03.000 Metabolic stress.

00:30:04.000 So just a sheer number of sets.

00:30:07.000 Yeah.

00:30:07.000 Just constant repetitions over and over and over again with not that high a weight.

00:30:12.000 Yes.

00:30:12.000 Yeah.

00:30:13.000 And that's metabolic.

00:30:13.000 But then mechanical tension is when it's more powerlifting-esque.

00:30:17.000 Right.

00:30:18.000 So there's your difference between the two.

00:30:20.000 So the reason being is when you start looking at mechanical tension, that might produce an athlete who has a smaller strength deficit.

00:30:29.000 So when, again, using you as an example, if there was a smaller strength deficit between what you could voluntarily...

00:30:37.000 Leg press, you know, leg extension, hamstring extension, and then involuntary, there's a smaller deficit.

00:30:44.000 I would liken it to, okay, Joe, you have this much muscle mass, but you're using a lot of your potential.

00:30:49.000 You're using it already.

00:30:50.000 It's almost like you've got a Formula One car with a huge engine, but you're using it to its full extent.

00:30:57.000 You know, and this is why, I'm going off on a slight tangent here, but this is why when you start looking at bodybuilding-centric work, so this idea of increasing muscular hypertrophy, it can be a good thing when you understand that strength deficit.

00:31:12.000 So you might have an athlete who you go, okay, you have a small strength deficit, it's very small, so for the muscle mass that you have, you're using it to its absolute full potential.

00:31:21.000 It's like you have a very small car, But you are just pushing down the accelerator so hard and it can't go anymore.

00:31:27.000 It's just redlined.

00:31:28.000 Exactly.

00:31:29.000 So the option that we have is to increase the size of the car.

00:31:32.000 The option we have is to increase the size of your muscle mass.

00:31:34.000 Does that make sense?

00:31:35.000 It does.

00:31:36.000 Yeah.

00:31:36.000 It does.

00:31:38.000 What kind of training were you doing to increase your capacity for work?

00:31:43.000 While maintaining the mass.

00:31:45.000 Yeah, and this goes...

00:31:47.000 It's a bit of a strange story.

00:31:48.000 So this goes back to something I almost call, you know, horsepower programming, which I think is so often lost now.

00:31:54.000 I think training is very specific.

00:31:56.000 When you go into the gym, are you training for strength, speed, stamina?

00:31:59.000 Whereas horsepower programming, I almost borrowed from Soviet Union principles.

00:32:03.000 You start looking at general physical preparedness, as it was known.

00:32:08.000 And this is this just idea of you take an athlete, certainly a younger athlete, And you're trying to increase their work capacity by non-specific movements.

00:32:17.000 So you'll get an athlete, you're handed, imagine, okay, you're a young kid just growing up and your parents hand you to me, I'm your coach.

00:32:26.000 And I say, okay, I don't know if Joe's going to be big, strong.

00:32:30.000 I don't know if he's going to be able to run far or fast.

00:32:32.000 I don't know.

00:32:33.000 So what we're going to do is just increase your sort of neuromuscular efficiency and work capacity.

00:32:38.000 And so by doing that, it's kind of jumps, throws, non-specific, these natural movement patterns.

00:32:45.000 And we get you to do lots and lots of this.

00:32:47.000 What that's doing is work capacity, your body's ability to positively tolerate training and give intensity or duration.

00:32:54.000 And I think from the Great British Swim, when a lot of people will say, how was it that you were able to tolerate those 12 hours a day, the jellyfish stings and everything?

00:33:03.000 For me, one of the biggest things was going back to, and this is going to sound so odd, but I ran a marathon pulling a car three years ago, I think now.

00:33:14.000 And so that is almost the perfect embodiment of horsepower programming in that sheer stress on the body, but it's not a specific skill.

00:33:22.000 When you say you ran a marathon behind a car, you mean pulling a car.

00:33:27.000 So in front of a car, not behind a car.

00:33:30.000 No, yeah.

00:33:31.000 You pulled a car and ran a marathon? 1.00

00:33:34.000 What the fuck, dude? 1.00

00:33:35.000 Look at you. 1.00

00:33:39.000 You seem so normal.

00:33:41.000 That's what's so confusing to me.

00:33:43.000 Like, if I met you, there's something about a lot of these endurance people.

00:33:47.000 Well, I guess not Courtney. 0.98

00:33:49.000 Courtney Dolwalter, she's so carefree and silly. 0.69

00:33:53.000 But you're very loose and relaxed. 0.98

00:33:55.000 I always consider those people dark. 0.99

00:33:58.000 There's some darkness to those extreme endurance athletes.

00:34:01.000 Yeah.

00:34:02.000 There's darkness.

00:34:03.000 They're running from some darkness.

00:34:05.000 Yeah.

00:34:06.000 You know what I mean?

00:34:07.000 No, I do.

00:34:08.000 I've had this conversation with a few people because they said something similar.

00:34:11.000 And I think it's, I mean, you know, to slightly go off on another tangent here, because I think we've covered the physical aspect and work capacity, which I've addressed.

00:34:20.000 But I think, and this is one thing I genuinely just wanted to almost quiz you on and get your thoughts on this, is certainly throughout the Great British Swim, It subjected my body to a fatigue like I've never experienced before.

00:34:34.000 It was just, yeah, sleep deprivation, just ligaments, tendons in my shoulders just wondering what was going on.

00:34:40.000 And for me, you almost develop a split personality in that There's times when I'd quite often say you need to swim with a smile because it's 157 days.

00:34:52.000 If you're stressed or it's like a marathon where you grit your teeth and you try and get through it, I think we're very aware that the body is this complex biochemical organism and if you're stressed, cortisol levels spike, inflammation, your immune system, everything's affected.

00:35:05.000 So for me, I was treating it not like a marathon.

00:35:08.000 I had to treat it Swim with a smile, you know, think this is life now.

00:35:13.000 Right.

00:35:15.000 But then equally, there were times when, you know, I wouldn't swim with a smile.

00:35:20.000 It was just, you know, Corey Beckham being a great example.

00:35:22.000 You know, I certainly wasn't all that happy then.

00:35:25.000 And for me...

00:35:27.000 It's those times when I say, you've got to just get feral.

00:35:31.000 You've really just got to...

00:35:32.000 And a good friend of mine, back in England, SAS trained, and he said to me, Ross, you're a really nice guy and everything, but there's going to be times when you just need to, you know, no smiles and just get feral, which I... Thinking about it,

00:35:48.000 and because I had 12 hours to think a day, I was mulling this over in my head.

00:35:53.000 For me, it goes back to Tim Noakes' Central Governor Theory, looking at how fatigue is an emotionally driven state that we use to pull that physiological handbrake.

00:36:03.000 So, you know, for those listening, sort of 16 miles into a marathon, you might be saying, no way, I can't keep putting one foot in front of the other.

00:36:09.000 There's no way.

00:36:10.000 And then all of a sudden, 25 miles in, your family and friends are clapping you, and you get that second wind, and you start sprinting.

00:36:17.000 And for me, looking at the sort of central governor theory, I found that in complete exhaustion, like when you absolutely have nothing left, you almost go into this feral state, you know, so like an injured dog,

00:36:33.000 you know, where a lot of people will say, oh, you know, remember why you started, think of your family and friends.

00:36:38.000 And I was like, no, no, no, I was at a level of fatigue where Where I wasn't thinking about, you know, family and friends.

00:36:44.000 I was thinking almost, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, where it starts with just food, shelter, oxygen.

00:36:52.000 I was at that sort of level where there was sea ulcers.

00:36:57.000 I mean, my neck's kind of healed now, but, you know, there was times when Chafing on my neck.

00:37:02.000 My tongue was falling apart.

00:37:03.000 It's fine now, by the way.

00:37:04.000 Your tongue was falling apart?

00:37:06.000 From the salt water?

00:37:08.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:37:10.000 Falling apart, like how so?

00:37:12.000 It's called salt tongue.

00:37:14.000 And after 12 hours in the water every single day, your tongue would essentially start to disintegrate.

00:37:20.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:37:21.000 Yeah, no.

00:37:22.000 So I woke up and there was parts of my tongue on my pillow.

00:37:27.000 Is there any concern that this is permanent or it was permanent at the time?

00:37:32.000 Were you concerned?

00:37:33.000 Absolutely!

00:37:37.000 That's what goes back to that hierarchy of needs where you're not thinking about family and friends or what motivates you.

00:37:43.000 No, you're thinking, I want to keep my tongue. 1.00

00:37:47.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

00:37:50.000 People have gone on long swims before, but has anybody done six months? 1.00

00:37:56.000 I don't think so.

00:37:58.000 There's Ben Lecomte at the moment who's going across the Pacific, but he is using a snorkel.

00:38:03.000 So he kind of cleverly thought about that.

00:38:06.000 Whereas for me, I thought, no, this has to be done without...

00:38:10.000 Properly. 1.00

00:38:10.000 Were you thinking about the guy who was just doing the breaststroke and saying, well, if he did it, fuck. 1.00

00:38:15.000 Captain Wern, then this is it. 0.99

00:38:17.000 Yeah, it was.

00:38:18.000 Wow.

00:38:19.000 So yeah, and it was at that point that I think you are feral.

00:38:24.000 You're just thinking...

00:38:25.000 Survive.

00:38:26.000 Yeah.

00:38:27.000 One arm in front of the other, keep going, keep moving.

00:38:29.000 Exactly that.

00:38:30.000 Wow.

00:38:31.000 So here, there's pieces of your tongue.

00:38:33.000 This is a video that you made where pieces of your tongue were falling apart.

00:38:37.000 Wow.

00:38:38.000 Defective salt buildup on the tongue.

00:38:40.000 And this is on Ross's Instagram, which is Ross E. D-G-L-E-Y. I put it up on my Instagram too.

00:38:49.000 I retweeted or reposted one of your things to let people know about this.

00:38:55.000 Oh, that is so nasty, dude.

00:38:57.000 That was bad.

00:38:57.000 You can see the taste buds on it.

00:38:59.000 That's how thick... 0.99

00:39:00.000 So was it fucking with your taste buds? 1.00

00:39:02.000 Oh, yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:39:03.000 The way you tasted things?

00:39:04.000 Oh, yeah.

00:39:05.000 And that started to have an impact on, you know, the food as well.

00:39:08.000 Because, I mean, like granola.

00:39:09.000 I was eating so much granola.

00:39:10.000 But when that happened, it's like rubbing sandpaper on an open wound.

00:39:15.000 Oh, yeah, right?

00:39:15.000 The grit and the oats.

00:39:17.000 Exactly.

00:39:18.000 And that was how we had to just adapt.

00:39:21.000 So it's during that.

00:39:22.000 That video is great actually.

00:39:23.000 I mean that was in the cabin.

00:39:24.000 And I remember just thinking like now I'm not thinking, you know, family and friends.

00:39:28.000 To talk about those, as you just said, those darker moments.

00:39:32.000 I think now it's very easy for me to be very grateful.

00:39:35.000 I'm warm, sitting in the studio with you.

00:39:37.000 There's no jellyfish.

00:39:38.000 But there's times there where, you know, it was dark on my neck as well.

00:39:43.000 I mean my neck was bad but we didn't actually catch the moment.

00:39:47.000 It was probably the worst on that.

00:39:48.000 I went to bed with this open wound from the wetsuit chafing, basically, and as I woke up, the bedsheet had fused to my neck, so I just had to rip it off.

00:39:59.000 Oh, from the pus on your neck? 0.72

00:40:01.000 Oh, Jesus Christ, son.

00:40:07.000 And then you had to get in that salt water, which must have felt great.

00:40:10.000 Right, yeah. 1.00

00:40:11.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

00:40:12.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:40:13.000 What was it like when you finished? 0.94

00:40:15.000 What did it feel like when the last stroke, and then you got out of the water, and you're like, holy shit, I just swam for six months. 0.93

00:40:24.000 It was, yeah.

00:40:25.000 It was so strange because when we left in June, we came back obviously to the same point and we left in the British summer and everyone was on the beach and then I came back round, people were putting up Christmas decorations and I was like, I'd been gone for so long at sea.

00:40:40.000 It was just...

00:40:42.000 That's so crazy!

00:40:43.000 How many days was it total?

00:40:46.000 157. Oh my god.

00:40:48.000 That is so insane.

00:40:49.000 It's just so much change.

00:40:51.000 And oh, yeah, here we go.

00:40:52.000 That was the finish.

00:40:53.000 So this is swimming back then.

00:40:54.000 So this is you. 0.99

00:40:55.000 Who are all these people, these fucking hangers on, following you around, pretending they did it too. 0.99

00:41:00.000 Oh, this is Ross. 1.00

00:41:00.000 No, no, no. 1.00

00:41:02.000 Ross is my friend.

00:41:04.000 So I felt that it was such a team effort.

00:41:07.000 Look at all those people waiting for you.

00:41:09.000 My legs were so shaky, Joe.

00:41:10.000 At this point, I'm thinking, don't fall over.

00:41:12.000 Don't fall over.

00:41:13.000 Wow.

00:41:13.000 Because it has.

00:41:14.000 I mean, this is the thing.

00:41:15.000 I think I stumble in a little minute.

00:41:16.000 That is such madness, man.

00:41:18.000 Yeah.

00:41:19.000 That is such madness.

00:41:20.000 And you crossed the Red Bull finish line.

00:41:22.000 I got a Trident.

00:41:23.000 That was pretty cool.

00:41:24.000 Wow.

00:41:24.000 That's at home at the moment.

00:41:25.000 Oh, they hooked you up?

00:41:26.000 Yeah.

00:41:27.000 What's that made out of?

00:41:28.000 It was really sturdy.

00:41:29.000 I don't know.

00:41:30.000 I think it feels like a bronze type thing, but this... 0.99

00:41:33.000 Who are all these fucking phonies? 0.99

00:41:35.000 You can do it with them. 1.00

00:41:37.000 Get out of the water, you fucking posers. 1.00

00:41:40.000 But I said, I was like, I feel that the way that it captured everyone's mind, it just only felt right. 1.00

00:41:46.000 I get it.

00:41:48.000 Do you swim?

00:41:49.000 Yes.

00:41:49.000 You do?

00:41:50.000 Yeah.

00:41:51.000 Just in a pool.

00:41:52.000 Why didn't you come and get involved?

00:41:53.000 I didn't even know about it.

00:41:54.000 You know how I found out about you? 0.99

00:41:56.000 Because I was reading on the internet and I found out about it and I sent it to all my friends after Sober October to show what pussies we were. 0.98

00:42:02.000 I was like, you guys think what we did was hard? 0.99

00:42:04.000 What we did ain't shit. 1.00

00:42:06.000 I sent it to Tom and Bert and Ari and we were all just like, fuck! 0.99

00:42:11.000 Because whenever you hear about someone doing something crazy, there's always someone who does something far crazier to just one-up the crazy person and it keeps going and going and going. 0.99

00:42:22.000 There's a race that Courtney Dilwalter, who's been a guest on the show before, she won the Moab 240, which is a 238 mile race through the Moab Mountains.

00:42:34.000 And it's just an insane race.

00:42:36.000 Not only did she win it, she won it by more than 10 hours ahead of the second place guy. 1.00

00:42:42.000 She's just a fucking straight savage. 1.00

00:42:44.000 So she recently entered a race, and she came in second place. 1.00

00:42:47.000 In this race, they would run for four miles in an hour, and then they would stop.

00:42:54.000 When the hour was over, they would stop, and then when the next hour started, they would run another four miles, like four point something miles, and they would do it for six days.

00:43:04.000 That's crazy.

00:43:05.000 It's like a last man standing.

00:43:07.000 And then at the very end, one person won.

00:43:10.000 It's like, who's going to drop out last?

00:43:13.000 So they just kept doing it.

00:43:14.000 So the guy who created this race, see if you can find anything on this guy. 0.81

00:43:18.000 He's apparently very sadistic.

00:43:20.000 And his idea was that people run these 100-mile races or a 50-mile race, and if you just finish, you feel like a winner. 1.00

00:43:27.000 And he's like, well, bullshit. 0.83

00:43:29.000 He goes, there can't be a winner if somebody comes in first place, and then you're second place. 1.00

00:43:35.000 You're not the winner.

00:43:36.000 It's like, there's one winner.

00:43:38.000 Oh, Berkeley Marathons.

00:43:40.000 Yeah, he's apparently Chainsmokes too.

00:43:42.000 He's amazing.

00:43:42.000 So this is the Berkeley Marathons.

00:43:44.000 You know about this.

00:43:45.000 It's the same guy.

00:43:46.000 He created that race and this is another race he created. 0.99

00:43:49.000 He's amazing.

00:43:50.000 So did you see, I think it was last year.

00:43:52.000 Jeremy, is it right?

00:43:53.000 What's the Berkeley Marathon?

00:43:55.000 Is it the Berkeley or Barclay Marathon?

00:43:56.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:57.000 Barclay.

00:43:58.000 Berkeley or Barkley?

00:43:59.000 Is the Barkley the one that nobody could figure out how to...

00:44:02.000 Yeah.

00:44:02.000 Barkley.

00:44:03.000 It's Barkley.

00:44:04.000 That's the weird one.

00:44:05.000 Yeah.

00:44:06.000 And I think it was, if you search this, Jamie, as well, I think it was last year or the year before.

00:44:10.000 I believe it's the 24-hour race or 48 hours?

00:44:13.000 But the guy missed out on finishing it by, I think it was a minute.

00:44:17.000 So he ran.

00:44:19.000 And then at the end, and you see him on the floor, he's absolutely devastated.

00:44:22.000 And didn't he take a wrong turn somewhere along the line?

00:44:25.000 Yeah.

00:44:26.000 Because it's really difficult to follow that path.

00:44:29.000 But admirably, he just got up and he shook his hand and just said, I just want to thank you for that.

00:44:34.000 He said, sometimes the Barclay Marathon wins, but that takes something different, right?

00:44:40.000 Well, definitely take something different.

00:44:43.000 Find out if I'm correct in how they do it.

00:44:46.000 I retweeted the Courtney Dillwalter one.

00:44:48.000 I retweeted it from Courtney where it says it's like getting punched in the face very softly over and over and over again.

00:44:56.000 Yep, that's exactly it.

00:44:57.000 I compare it to being punched in the face.

00:44:58.000 Can you put it up though?

00:44:59.000 Can you put the article up?

00:45:00.000 Wow, this is a version of the article.

00:45:02.000 I don't know if that's the exact one you have.

00:45:04.000 Yeah, that's exactly it.

00:45:05.000 So if you scroll down, you'll see the specifications.

00:45:10.000 Yeah.

00:45:11.000 Yeah.

00:45:15.000 And this is what I find amazing because then it becomes about something completely different.

00:45:19.000 I mean, we were just talking now about Kipchoge and the two-hour marathon, but it's like if you put Kipchoge into this, you know, who's going to win?

00:45:27.000 It says they had an hour to complete the 4.1667 mile loop.

00:45:33.000 And then they finish within 15 minutes to spare.

00:45:36.000 The bell clangs again.

00:45:38.000 At 7.40 a.m., they run it again.

00:45:40.000 And then at 8.40 a.m., they run it again.

00:45:43.000 At 9.40, they run it again.

00:45:44.000 So every hour, you run this 4.1667-mile loop, and then the bell just keeps clanging forever!

00:45:56.000 Why do you think there's more people doing these events now as well?

00:46:01.000 Well, I think it's the same thing as everything else.

00:46:05.000 The same thing as if you buy a car today, you want it to accelerate from zero to 60 in two and a half seconds.

00:46:11.000 Right.

00:46:11.000 A few years ago, that was unheard of.

00:46:14.000 If you buy a computer today, you want it to be 3.8 gigahertz and 5 terabyte hard drive.

00:46:22.000 It's the same every year.

00:46:24.000 We want improvements.

00:46:26.000 And I think when you hear someone's going to run a 100-mile race, you go, yeah, that's cute.

00:46:31.000 But I'm going to run 200 miles.

00:46:33.000 And they're like, that's not even possible.

00:46:34.000 It's the same as the four-minute mile.

00:46:35.000 Right. 0.99

00:46:35.000 Someone runs the 200 miles, they're like, holy shit, I can't believe a guy ran for three days, he ran 200 miles. 0.99

00:46:41.000 And then someone like Courtney comes along and goes, I'm going to do it in two days. 0.97

00:46:44.000 And they're like, what?

00:46:45.000 And then she runs it in two days.

00:46:47.000 They're talking about now doing a 500 mile ultra marathon.

00:46:52.000 Yeah.

00:46:53.000 And what I find amazing, what's the athlete look like?

00:46:56.000 Who completes that?

00:46:57.000 Do you know what I mean?

00:46:58.000 Well, Courtney's very thin.

00:46:59.000 She's very light and very thin.

00:47:01.000 And, you know, she's not the type of person that would win a regular marathon. 0.99

00:47:06.000 This is what was interesting.

00:47:07.000 My friend Cam Haynes, who also runs these, he ran the...

00:47:10.000 And he's quite big.

00:47:11.000 He's pretty jacked.

00:47:12.000 Yeah.

00:47:12.000 He works, he lifts a lot.

00:47:13.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:14.000 But he cuts a lot of body weight when he does those.

00:47:16.000 Okay.

00:47:17.000 But the way he does it is, he's a hard man.

00:47:19.000 He's what I was talking about, like these people have darkness.

00:47:22.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:22.000 He's got some darkness.

00:47:23.000 He just, like, he'll burn 3,000 calories, eat 2,000.

00:47:28.000 And so he'll force his body to eat itself.

00:47:30.000 And so he drops down to the 160-something pound range, and that's what he likes to weigh.

00:47:37.000 When he normally walks around like 185, he's pretty built.

00:47:39.000 But then he drops way down.

00:47:41.000 He'll lose like 20 pounds of muscle, because he's always lean.

00:47:45.000 He's not losing body fat.

00:47:47.000 He's just forcing his body to literally eat itself, just through mental toughness.

00:47:52.000 But he's still quite big.

00:47:53.000 Even when he's turning up on the start line and he's lost that, he's still...

00:47:56.000 He's big for an endurance athlete.

00:47:58.000 He's amazing.

00:47:58.000 But maybe that's one of the reasons why he doesn't win these things.

00:48:00.000 He comes in like third, fourth.

00:48:02.000 I mean, and also, you know, he hasn't been doing it as long as them, and he's 51 years old now.

00:48:07.000 Wow.

00:48:07.000 But he's an animal, man.

00:48:09.000 And this is just that kind of mental fortitude that it takes to do one of those things or to do what you did.

00:48:16.000 Yeah.

00:48:17.000 It's a very unusual kind of drive.

00:48:19.000 And people are very excited by that drive.

00:48:22.000 And they're very intrigued by it.

00:48:24.000 And it's very attractive.

00:48:25.000 It's very attractive to attempt to do.

00:48:28.000 It's very attractive to pay attention to and watch.

00:48:30.000 Because everyone knows how difficult...

00:48:32.000 It's undeniably difficult.

00:48:34.000 Like if someone says...

00:48:36.000 If you talk to someone who doesn't know how to run at all, they don't do anything.

00:48:38.000 They just sit on the couch.

00:48:39.000 They go, hey man, get up.

00:48:40.000 Get up.

00:48:41.000 We're going to run three miles. 1.00

00:48:42.000 Like, fuck. 1.00

00:48:43.000 At the end of that three miles, they will collapse. 1.00

00:48:45.000 They'll lay down their back.

00:48:47.000 Their heart will be pounding.

00:48:48.000 Their chest will be heaving.

00:48:49.000 So they know that's hard.

00:48:51.000 Everybody knows that's hard.

00:48:53.000 Everybody at one point in their life has run until they're exhausted.

00:48:56.000 Whether it's 500 yards or 5 miles or whatever.

00:49:00.000 Everybody From when you were a kid, there's always been a moment where we tested ourselves.

00:49:04.000 So we're familiar with that feeling of not being able to go on. 0.94

00:49:09.000 So when they see a guy like you who went through that feeling for six fucking months, or was it five months total? 0.98

00:49:16.000 Five months. 0.99

00:49:16.000 Five months, man. 0.99

00:49:18.000 Five months is an insane amount of time.

00:49:21.000 Yeah.

00:49:21.000 It is now upon the...

00:49:23.000 June, July, August, September, October, November. 0.98

00:49:28.000 You're into the sixth fucking month when you stop. 0.99

00:49:31.000 That's insane. 0.98

00:49:33.000 But what you just said there, like, do you think...

00:49:36.000 And this is, again, because I had 12 hours to think every day...

00:49:40.000 Do you think it is unusual or do you think that we now think it's unusual because society has got real comfortable?

00:49:47.000 You know, and I maintained that stuff that I was doing with Salt Tongue and everything, our ancestors, do you not think they would have just thought, you know, that's just Monday?

00:49:56.000 I don't think anybody ever thought that was just Monday.

00:49:59.000 No.

00:49:59.000 I don't think they would have forced themselves to do that because there's no biological or evolutionary need to do that.

00:50:05.000 It's not like you could swim for 12 hours a day and get across the channel and get to a place where there's better fruit.

00:50:11.000 I don't think our ancestors ever did that.

00:50:13.000 I definitely think they did.

00:50:15.000 What is that type of hunting?

00:50:18.000 There's actually a term for it.

00:50:20.000 Jaren's hunting.

00:50:20.000 Well, they run an animal down.

00:50:22.000 I don't think it's called endurance hunting.

00:50:24.000 I think there's another term for it.

00:50:26.000 But they will literally, like if you take an antelope, they don't have sweat glands.

00:50:30.000 And so they can run far faster than us, but it comes a point in time when they overheat.

00:50:34.000 So if you just stay on them.

00:50:36.000 Persistence hunting?

00:50:37.000 Oh, that was it.

00:50:38.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:50:38.000 Okay, I named it right when you pulled it up.

00:50:40.000 Damn. 0.99

00:50:42.000 Persistence hunting is, and you see it in a lot of these African men who go on to be phenomenal endurance runners. 0.99

00:50:51.000 I mean, they win marathons left and right in these particular parts of Africa that produce incredible runners.

00:50:58.000 And they think a lot, there was a really, there was a cut and run, is a fantastic episode of Radiolab that details these men from this one certain part in Africa, I forget where it is, but see if you can pull that up.

00:51:12.000 But this episode detailed the horrific circumcision rituals that these men had to endure.

00:51:20.000 Right. 1.00

00:51:20.000 Where they cut their dick, and they stick a stick through it, and then they make them crawl through thorns naked. 1.00

00:51:27.000 Right? 0.99

00:51:28.000 So I saw that there's a guy back in, I think it's Bruce Parry, so he's an adventurer.

00:51:32.000 He has done everything you can think of, every tribal initiation, and that's the one that he refused to do. 0.68

00:51:38.000 Good for him. 1.00

00:51:38.000 Keep your dick intact. 1.00

00:51:40.000 Don't let those crazy guys cut your dick. 1.00

00:51:42.000 The San are the oldest inhabitants of Southern Africa where they have lived for almost 20,000 years. 1.00

00:51:47.000 The term San is commonly used to refer to a diverse group of hunter-gatherers living in South Africa who share historical linguistic connections.

00:51:56.000 Many now accept the term Bushman or San.

00:51:59.000 That's Bushman hunting. 0.99

00:52:00.000 Is that from the Radiolab thing?

00:52:03.000 Yes.

00:52:03.000 That's what they call themselves?

00:52:04.000 BBC article here, which I would imagine...

00:52:07.000 Yeah.

00:52:08.000 But is that the same with the horrible circumcision ritual? 0.81

00:52:12.000 I'll double check. 1.00

00:52:14.000 Oh, it's fucking horrible. 0.98

00:52:15.000 But they were arguing when they were discussing it, and one of the guys who was on it, who had actually been through it, and now I believe he lives... 0.99

00:52:23.000 Maybe he lives in America. 0.56

00:52:25.000 But he was saying he would never have his children go through that, but it made him who he is.

00:52:31.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:31.000 And the idea was that not only are these guys physically gifted...

00:52:35.000 Mm-hmm.

00:52:55.000 But also dependent upon their ability to endure pain.

00:52:58.000 To force themselves past...

00:53:00.000 You know, anyone can kind of trot along at a really leisurely pace.

00:53:04.000 It's not painful.

00:53:05.000 But if you're going hard, you know, you're really going hard.

00:53:09.000 Is it?

00:53:09.000 It's the radio lab.

00:53:11.000 Kenya.

00:53:11.000 Yeah, it's the...

00:53:12.000 Yeah.

00:53:13.000 Kapogi, I think, is...

00:53:14.000 Ah, there we go.

00:53:16.000 Where is it?

00:53:18.000 So, before you, I mean, I've kind of described it, but they describe it in even more horrific detail in the podcast.

00:53:27.000 And that almost crosses over to, I mean, again, I'm not advocating what you just, you know, Genitalia mutilation.

00:53:36.000 I'm not advocating that.

00:53:38.000 But there's that idea of adversity training that if you're ever in the gym, it's like, what are you training?

00:53:42.000 And it's just like strength.

00:53:43.000 What are you training?

00:53:43.000 Speed.

00:53:44.000 And this is why I'm a huge fan of Wim Hof because so often what he's doing when he's submerged in ice cold, it's like, well, I'm training my capillaries.

00:53:51.000 And it's like, what do you mean you're training your capillaries?

00:53:53.000 And it's these, we're atrophying these age-old inbuilt mechanisms.

00:53:58.000 So again, I'm not advocating...

00:54:02.000 Right, I know what you're saying.

00:54:04.000 You're advocating tolerance, training tolerance.

00:54:07.000 Yeah, and do you think that's maybe missing?

00:54:09.000 I mean, again, looking at MMA, like maybe that you see, you know, whether it's, you know, Muay Thai and they're like kicking trees and stuff.

00:54:18.000 Yeah, granted, that's, you know, making denser bones and stuff.

00:54:20.000 But do you think there's that element as well?

00:54:22.000 When you look at, what was it?

00:54:27.000 I've forgotten what it was now, but you just start looking at just putting people in high stress situations just to see how they're going to cope.

00:54:33.000 Like John Fitch, he was like notorious for letting people almost try and submit him and then they'd tie themselves out.

00:54:40.000 He was just completely calm.

00:54:43.000 I maintain that that really depends on who's choking you.

00:54:47.000 Because Josh Berkman choked him completely unconscious.

00:54:50.000 Okay, okay.

00:54:51.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:52.000 You know, Berkman's got a hell of a guillotine and John Fitz shot in on him and Berkman caught him in the guillotine and just put him to sleep in the first round.

00:55:00.000 Right.

00:55:01.000 I think...

00:55:01.000 There's guys that can just put you to sleep.

00:55:04.000 If you think that you can get away with that shit with a Marcelo Garcia, you're going to wake up going, what happened? 1.00

00:55:12.000 But most guys won't be able to choke you. 0.99

00:55:15.000 So to that point, and again, I'm catching up on 157 days of UFC. So I was actually at UFC with McGregor and Khabib.

00:55:22.000 But on that note, do you think he tapped premature?

00:55:25.000 Oh, he went to sleep.

00:55:27.000 McGregor went to sleep.

00:55:28.000 Oh, that and that fight.

00:55:29.000 I thought you meant John Fish and Josh Birkman.

00:55:31.000 Yeah, no, no.

00:55:31.000 I mean, it was a neck crank, right?

00:55:33.000 No, he did not tap premature.

00:55:36.000 He did not defend it, though.

00:55:38.000 Okay.

00:55:38.000 Here's the deal.

00:55:39.000 He was done.

00:55:40.000 He was beaten down. 1.00

00:55:41.000 Khabib fucked him up. 1.00

00:55:43.000 Khabib smashed him. 0.99

00:55:44.000 But there was a lot of people that don't train.

00:55:47.000 And this was very frustrating to me.

00:55:48.000 There was many people that don't train that think that that was something that you shouldn't tap to. 1.00

00:55:54.000 They're out of their fucking mind. 1.00

00:55:55.000 Okay. 1.00

00:55:55.000 That is what's called a fulcrum choke. 1.00

00:55:58.000 It's not necessarily a choke, but it chokes you, but it really feels like your fucking head's going to pop off. 0.98

00:56:06.000 What he's doing is he's wrapping around the face, and you don't have to even go under the jaw. 0.98

00:56:11.000 You can get it on the chin, especially if you're as strong as Khabib. 1.00

00:56:14.000 Then you clamp your hands together, and you're pressing your forearm against his back.

00:56:19.000 So you've got this, and you've got the forearm against his back, and you're doing this.

00:56:23.000 It's just levers. 1.00

00:56:24.000 And your fucking head is just like... 1.00

00:56:27.000 And Khabib is so strong. 1.00

00:56:30.000 He's been grappling since he was a baby.

00:56:33.000 All of his muscles are designed to squeeze and crush and smash.

00:56:38.000 And he gets a hold of your neck in that position and he's got that forearm pressed against your back.

00:56:44.000 See if you can find an image of the actual submission.

00:56:47.000 You could really clearly see what he's doing.

00:56:49.000 And then there was a video where Dean Lister and my friend Hans Molenkamp described it.

00:56:55.000 I was pulling that up and it's been taken off Instagram for some reason.

00:56:57.000 That video?

00:56:58.000 Yeah.

00:56:58.000 The Hans Molenkamp Dean Lister video?

00:57:00.000 Yeah, I don't know why.

00:57:01.000 Maybe someone reposted it and that link is gone, but yeah.

00:57:05.000 Huh.

00:57:07.000 Did you check Dean Lister's?

00:57:09.000 That's so weird.

00:57:11.000 I wonder why anybody would take that down. 1.00

00:57:14.000 Anyway, there's guys who could fuck your face up without even going under the neck. 0.99

00:57:19.000 A good example, here's another good example. 1.00

00:57:21.000 Just pull this up.

00:57:22.000 I got it.

00:57:22.000 You got it?

00:57:23.000 It's not the one from right after the fight, but he's still describing it.

00:57:25.000 Oh, this is perfect.

00:57:27.000 This is perfect.

00:57:28.000 So Dean Lister, who's a world champion, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, black belt, as legit as it gets, and this is my friend Hans Molenkamp.

00:57:36.000 He's also Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt.

00:57:39.000 And see, this is exactly what Khabib did. 0.86

00:57:42.000 See how his forearm is pressed against the back and the arm is under the chin?

00:57:46.000 See, the difference is what Dean is doing, he can't even help himself.

00:57:49.000 He's immediately putting his arms, his hands on the arm that's choking him.

00:57:53.000 That's what you're supposed to do.

00:57:54.000 Now, if you look at what Conor did, Conor just waited until he couldn't take it anymore and tapped.

00:58:01.000 When you see Conor...

00:58:03.000 Both of his arms are down, he's getting his neck cranked, and he doesn't do this.

00:58:08.000 Right.

00:58:08.000 That's what you're supposed to do.

00:58:09.000 You're supposed to do two on one, and then you drop down.

00:58:12.000 Like, look at this.

00:58:13.000 See what he's doing there?

00:58:14.000 He's tapping.

00:58:15.000 But see where his left arm is?

00:58:17.000 That left arm should not...

00:58:18.000 You can't do that.

00:58:20.000 See, that is a perfect example of the fulcrum choke.

00:58:24.000 See how he's doing that?

00:58:25.000 Pressing his forearm against the back, squeezing the head.

00:58:28.000 It's a neck crank.

00:58:30.000 It's a choke. 1.00

00:58:31.000 There's a lot of shit going on there. 1.00

00:58:32.000 It doesn't have to be under the chin. 1.00

00:58:34.000 It could just be on your face, and you're going to get fucked up. 0.99

00:58:37.000 So all those folks out there that were saying that it wasn't a choke... 0.99

00:58:50.000 Right.

00:58:51.000 Right.

00:58:53.000 Right.

00:58:54.000 Right.

00:58:59.000 Yeah.

00:59:15.000 He might have to tap if someone gets him in it.

00:59:17.000 I mean, people tap, but he's not going to just have one arm posted.

00:59:23.000 That's just not the right way to handle it.

00:59:24.000 But I think that's because Conor had eaten bombs.

00:59:27.000 Well, I was about to ask, so that's all technical.

00:59:29.000 So you think, so there's that, almost as a...

00:59:32.000 I don't know, like a continuum.

00:59:34.000 There's technical, which you've just...

00:59:36.000 And again, I should point out, again, I'm a complete layman when it comes to all mixed martial arts, but I find it fascinating, this adversity training aspect.

00:59:43.000 So you were just saying he was eating bombs before that.

00:59:46.000 Would it have helped, you know, that if he wasn't?

00:59:50.000 Do you know what I mean?

00:59:51.000 Where does it cross over from being technical?

00:59:52.000 It would help if he wasn't as tired.

00:59:54.000 So, like, if that choke was applied during the first few seconds or minutes of the first round, I think he probably would have had a good chance to survive.

01:00:04.000 Okay, okay.

01:00:05.000 What's going on?

01:00:06.000 Put on Dean Lister, it's an Ezekiel choke, and he's not being done well. 0.82

01:00:09.000 Oh, but this is not an Ezekiel choke.

01:00:12.000 This is, this is, uh, what this is, is, I mean, it's kind of an Ezekiel, but see where his hand is?

01:00:20.000 You gotta really get underneath, see his left hand?

01:00:23.000 That left hand's gotta go not just there, it's gotta go under the chin.

01:00:27.000 That's not good enough. 0.97

01:00:28.000 For a guy like Dean, you go, okay, now it's pretty fucking tight. 0.95

01:00:31.000 Now it's tight. 0.81

01:00:32.000 And he's got to get further and further in.

01:00:34.000 The further that left arm gets into Dean's neck, the more there's going to be a possibility of him choking. 0.99

01:00:41.000 But Dean has been fucking choked his whole life. 0.98

01:00:46.000 But I do have to say that Josh Barnett made him tap. 0.99

01:00:49.000 And Josh Barnett is like one of the few guys that's made Dean Lister tap, and I think the first time he tapped in a decade.

01:00:56.000 Wow.

01:00:57.000 And Josh Barnett got him in a scarf hold.

01:01:00.000 That was in Metamorris.

01:01:03.000 And Josh Barnett, he's a catch wrestling specialist.

01:01:07.000 Yeah, go to the very end of it here.

01:01:10.000 Josh Barnett gets a hold of Dean's...

01:01:12.000 See, in this position right here, he's in side control.

01:01:17.000 Which is just impressive enough that Josh is able to do this with a guy like Dean Lister.

01:01:20.000 But then he gets him in what's...

01:01:23.000 He probably has a different name for it.

01:01:25.000 But it's...

01:01:26.000 We used to call it Judo Side Control.

01:01:29.000 It's quite a bit further down on this.

01:01:31.000 You gotta keep going.

01:01:32.000 Keep going.

01:01:33.000 Keep going.

01:01:34.000 All the way to the end.

01:01:36.000 So he gets a hold of his...

01:01:38.000 He's got a head and arm choke.

01:01:40.000 Here it is.

01:01:41.000 Here it is.

01:01:41.000 So he's got his head and his arm trapped together, and Josh, who's an enormously powerful person, is really neck-cranking him as much as anything, and then Dean was forced to tap.

01:01:52.000 But this is at the end of a long match, and it could have been exhaustion might have played a part in it.

01:02:00.000 It most certainly was Josh's skill and his ability to apply that technique.

01:02:05.000 But the point is, a guy like Dean Lister, you're not going to tap that guy easy.

01:02:10.000 But this is, and again, with sort of holding my hands up saying I'm so sort of naive, a huge fan of MMA, but not necessarily any of the technical aspects.

01:02:19.000 But what I love is when you look at someone like Nick Diaz or Michael Bisping.

01:02:23.000 People don't understand his conditioning, and he will just wear people down.

01:02:27.000 Massive mental toughness, too.

01:02:29.000 What Bisping has is just insane mental toughness.

01:02:33.000 You know, Bisping basically has one eye.

01:02:35.000 If you look at his eyes, one of his eyes actually, and I hope he can get surgery on it now because he is retired, he has oil Like, embedded in his eye to protect his retina.

01:02:49.000 Because it's been torn so many times.

01:02:51.000 It's been torn.

01:02:52.000 He had surgery on it.

01:02:53.000 He had a repair.

01:02:54.000 Torn again. 0.99

01:02:55.000 His right eye is fucked up, man. 0.99

01:02:58.000 And one of the reasons why he retired is he started to see some irregularities in his vision in his left eye. 1.00

01:03:03.000 So his good eye was fucking up, too. 1.00

01:03:06.000 But I mean, Michael Bisping is a fucking animal. 0.99

01:03:09.000 I mean, he's about as tough as it gets. 0.99

01:03:11.000 And he's not like a spectacularly, physically talented guy like a Jon Jones or a Yoel Romero who's just this unbelievable specimen.

01:03:20.000 Michael's a really good athlete, unquestionably, but he's just tough. 0.98

01:03:25.000 Just fucking tough. 0.98

01:03:26.000 So to answer your question, there's this... 0.98

01:03:29.000 And you could speak to this because...

01:03:32.000 What you're talking about, the ability to overcome adversity, like some people, when you were talking about that fatigue is an emotionally driven thing, that there's this feeling that you get and you can give in to that feeling where you're like,

01:03:47.000 oh my god, I fucking can't do this anymore.

01:03:50.000 And some people are more susceptible to that than others. 0.99

01:03:53.000 And they give in to it quickly.

01:03:55.000 I mean, for a person, here's where you can experience this.

01:03:58.000 Whether or not your mindset...

01:04:01.000 Can affect your endurance.

01:04:04.000 Get on a treadmill or a stationary bike or whatever you want to do for cardio.

01:04:09.000 And then listen to a really kick-ass song. 0.99

01:04:13.000 And put on headphones and that song comes on and you just can't fucking, yeah. 0.98

01:04:18.000 You can just go. 0.98

01:04:19.000 There's something about that. 0.99

01:04:21.000 And even if you're tired, even if you're tired and you've put on a good song, you're like, fuck that, we're going to keep going. 0.99

01:04:27.000 Nothing has happened. 0.98

01:04:28.000 You haven't taken in any kind of a supplement or any kind of a stimulant.

01:04:32.000 You haven't gotten an injection in your body or you're not sucking on some kind of new gas.

01:04:37.000 Your body's exactly the same. 0.99

01:04:39.000 But through the motivation that you're getting from this music, the emotional stimulation, you're just like, fuck that, we're going to keep going. 0.99

01:04:48.000 Yeah! 0.99

01:04:49.000 And you can keep going.

01:04:50.000 Not only can you keep going, you can go faster, you can push harder, you can find these reserves.

01:04:55.000 Yeah.

01:04:56.000 So the idea is that these reserves are always there.

01:04:58.000 You have to be able to achieve the state of mind that you achieve when you hear a really good song.

01:05:03.000 You know?

01:05:04.000 And that's true that I think people don't understand you are the alchemist of your own body that, you know, in terms of neurotransmitters, chemical signals in the brain, you can impact those.

01:05:13.000 Sometimes, yeah, you need external influences.

01:05:14.000 Music, as you spoke about.

01:05:15.000 Sometimes, you know, caffeine.

01:05:17.000 But when you start to control them, Yeah, it can be so powerful.

01:05:21.000 Some people do it naturally, I suppose, and they've just got it inbuilt.

01:05:25.000 But when you start to train, and I think it's only now that we're going down that route and looking at that as a, you know, until previously, it was one of those intangibles, you know, that you kind of underappreciate it in any sport.

01:05:37.000 And now we're going, oh, okay, yeah, you know, that person over there is, you know, that mental fortitude or what you're talking about there is maybe their ability to alter their own chemistry, biochemical reactions to the body.

01:05:47.000 Yeah, there's something real that happens, right?

01:05:49.000 Yeah.

01:05:50.000 Like when you hear a song and you get excited, like whatever that, yeah, whatever that burst is, it seems like a real, like if that was a pill and you took it, you'd be like, oh, this works.

01:06:02.000 Absolutely.

01:06:02.000 And the thing is, is it's been around years.

01:06:04.000 When you look at like, you know, Marcus Aurelius' meditations or Stoic philosophy, and they're talking about, you know, dialogue being both external and internal.

01:06:12.000 So the conversations that go on inside your own head are just as important as the conversations you have with other people.

01:06:17.000 So we've understood this for years.

01:06:19.000 But it's only just now that we're trying to kind of apply a little bit of science to it, looking at the psychology and this mind-body connection.

01:06:27.000 But the fact is, yeah, some of the greatest ancient Stoics, they were trying to figure out as well.

01:06:32.000 Right.

01:06:35.000 Well, that can become...

01:06:36.000 And it might be a particular song.

01:06:38.000 You know, it might be a particular something.

01:06:40.000 You know, if you get into...

01:06:41.000 You go into a gym or you've got a friend that can bring that out of you.

01:06:45.000 Again, you know, my training back home.

01:06:48.000 So, you know, Andy Bolton, who was the first guy to deadlift a thousand pounds.

01:06:52.000 I mean, Jesus.

01:06:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:06:54.000 A thousand pounds.

01:06:56.000 Yeah, I mean, the clip when you see it and he pulls a thousand pounds.

01:07:00.000 It's since been beaten by Eddie Hall, who did Half a Ton. 0.99

01:07:03.000 What the fuck, Eddie? 0.99

01:07:06.000 Isn't half a ton a thousand pounds? 1.00

01:07:08.000 A little bit less.

01:07:09.000 So I think a thousand pounds, I don't know, what's that?

01:07:11.000 Four?

01:07:12.000 I thought a ton was two thousand pounds, isn't it?

01:07:14.000 So yeah, Eddie, what's a thousand pounds in kilos?

01:07:17.000 Oh, you're trying to do kilos.

01:07:18.000 Yeah, yeah, sorry, the two.

01:07:19.000 So yeah, there was two metrics there.

01:07:21.000 So Andy Bolton, which was a little bit...

01:07:22.000 2.2 kilos per pound?

01:07:26.000 No, 2.2 pounds per kilo.

01:07:28.000 Yeah.

01:07:29.000 And then, yeah, and when you see him, I mean, this is what I love when you start looking.

01:07:33.000 Oh, Jesus Christ!

01:07:34.000 So this is Eddie.

01:07:35.000 That's his half the time. 0.98

01:07:36.000 How the fuck are his knees staying together right there? 0.99

01:07:39.000 Look, that is obscene. 0.99

01:07:40.000 If you look at how big his body is and how normal size his knees are, that's like, look at the bones in his knees.

01:07:45.000 They look so normal.

01:07:46.000 Yeah.

01:07:47.000 I mean, that is... 1.00

01:07:48.000 Look at all these fucking people. 1.00

01:07:49.000 I know, it's unbelievable. 1.00

01:07:50.000 Like, pick it up!

01:07:51.000 Pick it up!

01:07:52.000 It's unbelievable.

01:07:54.000 Oh my god. 1.00

01:07:54.000 So when those guys retire, how fucked up are their bodies? 1.00

01:07:58.000 What's brilliant about Eddie? 0.99

01:07:59.000 This is the beast tattooed inside of his arms.

01:08:02.000 Who's going to argue with him?

01:08:03.000 Yeah, bro. 1.00

01:08:04.000 Yeah, you're a fucking beast. 1.00

01:08:06.000 His nose is bleeding. 1.00

01:08:07.000 Yeah.

01:08:08.000 Oh, that's right, right?

01:08:09.000 His nose started spraying blood while he was...

01:08:10.000 Was that him or another guy?

01:08:12.000 I think you...

01:08:13.000 There was another video.

01:08:14.000 Yeah, it was the Arnold classic.

01:08:15.000 I've forgotten his name.

01:08:15.000 He was Russian.

01:08:16.000 Yeah, that shit was wild. 1.00

01:08:18.000 But I mean, Eddie, again, so strength, especially with the deadlift, such a simple movement. 0.99

01:08:23.000 And, you know, the deadlift is just...

01:08:25.000 Strength is your body's ability to generate force.

01:08:28.000 You know, so it's neuromuscular.

01:08:30.000 It's like what your brain is telling your body.

01:08:32.000 So that goes back to that strength deficit.

01:08:34.000 Right.

01:08:34.000 That we were talking about.

01:08:35.000 You're basically saying to your body, recruit every single muscle fiber possible and work in conjunctions with ligaments and tensors and let's get half a ton off the floor.

01:08:46.000 Exactly, right?

01:08:47.000 But when you look, and certainly with Andy Bolton's 1,000 pound lift, he had his friend in his face and he's there going, come on, come on.

01:08:55.000 And he's hitting him in the face.

01:08:57.000 When we were talking earlier about, again, strength deficit is that sort of deficit between what you can voluntarily contract and involuntary contract.

01:09:07.000 That was him obviously voluntarily contract.

01:09:09.000 No one was electrocuting him in that particular one.

01:09:11.000 But they're there and you do anything that you can before you actually step out onto that platform.

01:09:17.000 And now, I mean, he would have just been, you know, completely written off after that, that sort of adrenal dump afterwards and fatigue, you know, emotionally.

01:09:24.000 And so you have to think about that.

01:09:27.000 I've forgotten who said it now.

01:09:28.000 It might have been Pavel, but they said, you know, save fatigue for competition.

01:09:32.000 And I know you've spoken about that before.

01:09:33.000 Stop.

01:09:34.000 I can't remember who you're speaking to.

01:09:37.000 Pavel's a fascinating guy with his concepts.

01:09:39.000 Amazing.

01:09:40.000 Yeah.

01:09:41.000 So ahead of the curve.

01:09:42.000 And I know you were talking to...

01:09:43.000 I can't remember if it was now.

01:09:44.000 Talking about farmer's strength and that ability to stop short every single day.

01:09:49.000 So never necessarily going to complete failure.

01:09:51.000 I think it was for us.

01:09:53.000 For us a hobby.

01:09:54.000 I think it was.

01:09:55.000 Yeah.

01:09:56.000 Talking about continually...

01:09:58.000 Kind of avoiding that exhaustion phase and solely existing in the adaptation phase.

01:10:03.000 Yes.

01:10:04.000 So, you know, I mean, this goes back to sell you sort of 1936, a Hungarian physician who found, you know, you give, you know, took some lab rats, give them a lethal dose of poison, they kill over and die.

01:10:14.000 But he found by giving them a little bit of poison, a little bit more, a little bit more, that they built up this intolerance to it.

01:10:19.000 That was the general adaptation syndrome.

01:10:21.000 But it was from that that we discovered stress and stimuli is the key to any adaptation.

01:10:27.000 And it wasn't until the strength and conditioning community caught on to that and we started to think, okay, how can we apply stress and stimuli to the body to bring about a desired result?

01:10:36.000 Certainly now, I think that's kind of overlooked in sport, but certainly the wider fitness industry that, you know, it's easy now and very sort of marketing driven to say, get fit in, you know, five easy steps or, you know, whereas the reality is, you know,

01:10:51.000 it's get fit in eight months after a lot of stress and stimuli.

01:10:55.000 Yeah, but that get fit in five easy steps is really just for, it's just a gimmick to get people who don't actually work out to get involved.

01:11:04.000 It is, and that's why I love what you broadcast.

01:11:06.000 And even with the Sober October and stuff, I mean, I'm a huge fan of Bert, but people, and I know he's so funny, and everyone loves Bert, but he's a beast as well.

01:11:15.000 I mean, to rock up and just do a marathon, and again, going back to power-to-weight ratio, what he did was amazing.

01:11:22.000 You're saying he's really fat, right?

01:11:24.000 That's what you're saying?

01:11:24.000 No, I'm not saying anything.

01:11:26.000 That's what you're saying, power-to-weight.

01:11:28.000 That's okay.

01:11:29.000 Wink, wink.

01:11:30.000 I gotcha.

01:11:31.000 You're not saying that.

01:11:31.000 I get it, bro.

01:11:33.000 He's a burly guy.

01:11:34.000 He's a well-built... 0.89

01:11:35.000 That's a nice way of saying fat.

01:11:36.000 He is a well-built male. 1.00

01:11:38.000 Somebody took a picture of my face on Bird's body and I fucking threw up. 0.98

01:11:42.000 I'm like, oh my god, but what if? 0.98

01:11:44.000 But what if?

01:11:46.000 I'm like, no!

01:11:47.000 Yeah, he likes to drink.

01:11:49.000 And he still, he is a beast, because he, despite the fact that he doesn't look like Rich Roll, he still can keep going.

01:11:57.000 And people, and I know he was very entertaining when he did the marathon and stuff, but I was actually watching that as the sports scientist in me was like, that's amazing, and no one's talking about that.

01:12:06.000 His power to weight ratio, and he's still running that marathon.

01:12:09.000 Something that, and yeah, so for as funny and as entertaining as it was to watch, I honestly was like, Bert, that's amazing.

01:12:15.000 What's more amazing is Ari, honestly, because Ari really didn't work out. 1.00

01:12:18.000 Really?

01:12:19.000 And Ari came in second place, and he came in second place by only 1,000 points, which is...

01:12:23.000 One day I got 1,000 points in a day, so he was really only 1,000 points behind me.

01:12:29.000 But it's a crazy day.

01:12:30.000 That's like a...

01:12:42.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:12:53.000 And then I was only being able to come up with like 230 points and somewhere along those lines because I would max out.

01:13:01.000 I was doing like 90% of my max heart rate for like 30-35 minutes.

01:13:05.000 I was like exhausted.

01:13:06.000 And then Ari figured out that 80 points pays just as much. 0.92

01:13:11.000 And so he started watching movies while he was on an elliptical machine.

01:13:15.000 And that just turned the whole thing into this sort of steady, not fast marathon.

01:13:21.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:13:23.000 It was really fascinating because I never exercised like that before and it changed my endurance radically over a month.

01:13:30.000 What's interesting is it changed my endurance in things that are explosive, like kickboxing.

01:13:36.000 So having that aerobic base helps with something explosive.

01:13:39.000 How did you find that?

01:13:40.000 It helped a lot.

01:13:42.000 Because I would mix that in.

01:13:46.000 After a while we were doing so much exercise that I had to do different things or I would get bored.

01:13:51.000 So I would do a circuit of the elliptical machine and then I would follow the elliptical machine.

01:13:58.000 On some days I'd run, elliptical machine, kickbox.

01:14:03.000 And on other days, I would do the Echo Bike, which is an Airdyne machine that Rogue makes.

01:14:08.000 And then I would do the Rowing machine.

01:14:10.000 And then I would do the VersaClimber.

01:14:12.000 And then I added in that Air Runner treadmill, which is, what is it called?

01:14:18.000 Air Assault, I think.

01:14:19.000 Air Assault treadmill, yeah.

01:14:20.000 Which is a treadmill that you power yourself.

01:14:23.000 Your feet pushing on it and pulling it is what makes it go fast.

01:14:28.000 It's not like a treadmill that you keep up with.

01:14:30.000 It's actually more difficult than actual running.

01:14:32.000 Right, right, right.

01:14:33.000 It's 13% more difficult than actual running on the street.

01:14:37.000 So, I was going crazy.

01:14:39.000 I couldn't do the same things over and over again, so I kept mixing them up.

01:14:42.000 And when I would mix them up, by the end of the month, my kickboxing was...

01:14:47.000 I had way more endurance.

01:14:49.000 Like, I could do ten hard rounds, going three minutes each round, and then I would recover in between rounds.

01:14:56.000 The one minute in between rounds, I'd recover quick.

01:14:59.000 Because I'm wearing a heart rate monitor.

01:15:01.000 I'm watching my heart rate dip.

01:15:02.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:15:02.000 It was dipping really quickly, and then I had all this energy and madness.

01:15:07.000 Like, everything was changing.

01:15:08.000 Like, my capacity for work changed.

01:15:11.000 Everything adapted.

01:15:13.000 I got a little dehydrated one time, and I pissed it looked like iced tea, which is not good.

01:15:17.000 So I started panicking and wondering about things like rhabdomyelosis and kidney failure, but I didn't have anything wrong with that.

01:15:25.000 It was just a little bit of...

01:15:27.000 But what's interesting, to go back to what we were talking about there, you've just perfectly described that idea of giving a clear cellular signal to the body.

01:15:34.000 So polarised training, you're familiar with that 80-20 that you do, 80% of your work, your training in that aerobic realm where you can keep doing that.

01:15:43.000 You're not going to overtrain there.

01:15:44.000 You're going to avoid that exhaustion phase. 0.96

01:15:47.000 Sell your indestructible rats.

01:15:49.000 You're not going to keel over and die from a lethal dose of stress and stimuli.

01:15:53.000 But then, over here, that 20%, it was powerful.

01:15:57.000 It was kickboxing.

01:15:58.000 So there, you're working technique, but you're fresh.

01:16:00.000 So you're drilling motor patterns that are completely fresh and not fatigued because you're doing this 80% on an elliptical trainer while watching a movie.

01:16:08.000 So you're keeping the two completely separate, but considering the body in its entirety, that when it comes together, you've created a more powerful version of yourself.

01:16:19.000 And I think it was interesting what you just said there about recovery between bouts as well.

01:16:24.000 So when you start looking at strongman training, you know, Some of the strongest guys, and one of these strongest guys in the world, all understood the benefits of cardiorespiratory training.

01:16:35.000 You look at, again, Jeff Capes, two-time World's Strongest Man, was running fell races and marathons at 25 stone.

01:16:41.000 What's a fell race? 0.90

01:16:42.000 A fell race is, yeah, it's quite specific to England, so it's kind of trail running, but we call them fell running because you're kind of going through bogs and marshes and...

01:16:52.000 Felled trees?

01:16:53.000 Yeah.

01:16:53.000 Not necessarily felled trees, but just kind of the terrain's a little bit different from a trail run.

01:16:58.000 So he was doing that.

01:16:59.000 When you look at Bill Kazmaier, again, well, strongest man, a powerlifter, but understood the benefits of cardiorespiratory training to improve his recovery between sets.

01:17:07.000 Brian Shaw as well, one of the sort of...

01:17:11.000 You know, the newest sort of strongman and former basketball player.

01:17:14.000 You know, so he had that cardiorespiratory endurance, that base, that aerobic base.

01:17:19.000 And then he built this incredible strength on top of that aerobic foundation.

01:17:24.000 Goes back again to...

01:17:27.000 Whether, you know, they knew it or not, they were almost creating an athlete like they were creating athletes back in the sort of Soviet Union era when they were taking athletes going, right, you're giving me a kid and I don't know if he's strong, quick, good at running, running fast or running far, I don't know.

01:17:42.000 So we're going to build this aerobic neuromuscular base and when they show any sort of genetic potential to be strong, quick, whatever, we're going to hone in on that and that's only when we're going to get specific.

01:17:54.000 And you're almost doing that now.

01:17:56.000 And certainly Brian Shaw did it.

01:17:58.000 Again, you look long through all of the best athletes in the world.

01:18:02.000 They've all followed this blueprint.

01:18:04.000 But it's only now that we're kind of dissecting that and saying, oh, okay, I'm making it a bit more purposeful.

01:18:09.000 Who's this gentleman?

01:18:10.000 There we go.

01:18:10.000 There's Brian Shaw.

01:18:12.000 What's wrong with his legs?

01:18:13.000 They're all swollen.

01:18:15.000 But I mean, even now, I tell you what, Jamie, if it's possible, actually, I mean, Brian Shaw, he accidentally, you must have seen this clip, set the indoor rowing record.

01:18:25.000 I think it was for a... 0.99

01:18:26.000 Look at the size of this motherfucker. 1.00

01:18:28.000 Oh, my God. 1.00

01:18:30.000 And he rocks Converse All-Stars.

01:18:32.000 Look at that.

01:18:33.000 He set the...

01:18:34.000 There's a clip on YouTube.

01:18:35.000 Look at that.

01:18:36.000 Man, my man's wearing chucks.

01:18:38.000 There's a clip on YouTube where he sets the indoor rowing record, and it was just because...

01:18:45.000 Yeah, there we go.

01:18:46.000 He didn't know he was setting it?

01:18:47.000 No, so he's basically down there.

01:18:49.000 He's rowing, and it sounds like someone's started an engine.

01:18:53.000 And it's there to go...

01:18:54.000 Like this.

01:18:55.000 Here you go.

01:18:56.000 Let me hear this.

01:18:57.000 So this, they've just looked...

01:18:58.000 He rows with a mouthpiece.

01:19:00.000 Look, the whole thing, they have to hold it down in the end because it's coming out of the floor.

01:19:04.000 Jesus Christ, these guys are standing on it.

01:19:07.000 It sounds like just a...

01:19:09.000 That's a jet engine, right?

01:19:11.000 For all that power from his legs, man.

01:19:13.000 Exactly.

01:19:14.000 Well, no, and he's better.

01:19:15.000 I mean, that technique as well.

01:19:16.000 I mean, I hope Brian doesn't mind me saying.

01:19:18.000 It's not necessarily... 0.67

01:19:20.000 You know, Olympic rowing technique, but he doesn't need it because he's just got silly power.

01:19:25.000 What is the correct technique?

01:19:27.000 So the hundred...

01:19:28.000 Well, there's a catch phase and it's more...

01:19:30.000 You're almost treating it more like a deadlift where you're using your larger leg muscles where...

01:19:35.000 Oh Jesus, look at him go.

01:19:37.000 There you go.

01:19:39.000 And they had to put weights on it. 1.00

01:19:41.000 Oh my God, this guy's a fucking savage. 1.00

01:19:44.000 This is so crazy to watch. 1.00

01:19:46.000 Unbelievable.

01:19:47.000 The amount of force he can generate.

01:19:48.000 He looks like a very tall man too.

01:19:50.000 He's huge.

01:19:51.000 How big is this guy?

01:19:52.000 6'8", 6'9".

01:19:54.000 So that helps too, right?

01:19:55.000 Because the long stroke?

01:19:56.000 Absolutely.

01:19:57.000 It's just pure power.

01:19:58.000 But anyway, so they found out.

01:19:59.000 During this session, I believe what happened is they said, well, you know, a rower shouldn't make that sort of noise.

01:20:05.000 He's basically two people put together.

01:20:08.000 He's 6' what?

01:20:09.000 400 and what?

01:20:11.000 6'8", 425 pounds.

01:20:13.000 That's two big guys strapped together in one body.

01:20:17.000 He's almost 200 pounds above the UFC heavyweight limit.

01:20:22.000 Do you know how insane that is?

01:20:23.000 UFC heavyweight limit is 265. He's almost 200 pounds too heavy to fight in the heavyweight division of the UFC. Motherfucker.

01:20:34.000 Basketball. 1.00

01:20:34.000 Basketball background. 1.00

01:20:35.000 And he still, look, he didn't know that he was going to set the world record for rowing.

01:20:39.000 So the rowing record, there you go, his one was 12.8.

01:20:41.000 I believe it was 1308. Jesus.

01:20:44.000 So he's just broke the rowing record.

01:20:44.000 But because he had that neuromuscular background that they said, Hey, Brian, you're big and powerful.

01:20:50.000 This is a rowing machine.

01:20:52.000 Right.

01:20:52.000 He went, oh, okay.

01:20:53.000 And it's like, oh, there you go.

01:20:54.000 Congratulations.

01:20:55.000 There's a world record.

01:20:56.000 Wow.

01:20:56.000 So it's that base that I think so often I've heard you speak about, and certainly Eddie as well, talking about break dancers making great, you know, BJJ. And again, whether you know it or not, they had that neuromuscular foundation.

01:21:08.000 They understood proprioception, where their ligaments, tensors, everything should work.

01:21:12.000 Right.

01:21:13.000 Whereas if you had someone with a similar work capacity or someone of the same age, everything was the same, but they didn't have that neuromuscular efficiency.

01:21:20.000 You'd say, okay, and again, this is me so naively, again, I certainly don't claim to know anything about BJJ, but you go, okay, this is an arm bar, and they kind of go, okay, let me try and figure this out, and you can see them, it's like a Rubik's Cube, they're trying to piece it together, but you get someone, again, like Brian,

01:21:36.000 and you go, okay, this is BJJ, or something quite complex that requires you, and he, I'm not saying, well, he wouldn't even fight, he's too heavy.

01:21:44.000 They'd have to open up the super heavyweight division. 0.92

01:21:47.000 But he's doing a similar movement to deadlifts, which is very common.

01:21:50.000 It is.

01:21:51.000 He's used to that movement.

01:21:53.000 It is.

01:21:53.000 Yeah, it is.

01:21:54.000 But I suppose where you saw him, you know, that wasn't actually...

01:21:57.000 There was no extension of the back.

01:21:59.000 Right.

01:21:59.000 He was bent over, just ripping.

01:22:01.000 There's another one, again, even to use Brian as an example, where he does...

01:22:04.000 I believe...

01:22:05.000 I can't remember the name of the wad now.

01:22:06.000 But he went up and Thor, as well, another strongman, did a...

01:22:11.000 I think it was a... 0.99

01:22:13.000 Am I a clean and jerk? 0.99

01:22:14.000 There was a wad that was predominantly clean and jerk and there was this amazing crossfitter. 0.99

01:22:18.000 Technique was beautiful, disappearing under the bar, bang, over his head. 0.64

01:22:22.000 It was amazing to watch.

01:22:23.000 And I think it was Thor or Brian Shaw went in and just instead of a clean and jerk and Joe, honestly, he just basically upright rose the whole thing.

01:22:31.000 And complete.

01:22:32.000 And they were like, well, that's not a cleaning jug, but you've just set a record again.

01:22:37.000 So there's that element.

01:22:39.000 To use an example as well with that.

01:22:41.000 Oh, here we go.

01:22:42.000 Here we go.

01:22:42.000 Oh my God.

01:22:43.000 That's insane.

01:22:45.000 But wait, hopefully there's a crossfitter.

01:22:46.000 That is insane.

01:22:47.000 Oh no.

01:22:47.000 Okay.

01:22:47.000 There's another strong one.

01:22:48.000 But there is, there's another one of those where you see the crossfitter with this amazing, beautiful technique.

01:22:55.000 He's so far from his chest, it's crazy that he's doing it like that.

01:22:59.000 And what is that?

01:23:01.000 225 pounds?

01:23:02.000 Is that what that is?

01:23:03.000 I don't actually know what that particular weight is. 1.00

01:23:04.000 What in the fucking shit? 1.00

01:23:07.000 That is so crazy that he could do that. 1.00

01:23:09.000 Look at how he's doing so many reps!

01:23:11.000 Right, right?

01:23:12.000 That is insane.

01:23:14.000 He doesn't have a pause. 1.00

01:23:16.000 No, but okay, so that's meant to be a clean and jerk. 0.99

01:23:18.000 I know. 0.98

01:23:18.000 So that's what I mean about that neuromuscular efficiency that he's gone, okay, here's a new sport. 0.98

01:23:23.000 Come get involved.

01:23:24.000 And he's gone, okay, I see the rules of your sport, but I'm going to do it my way.

01:23:28.000 But does it count?

01:23:30.000 Well, yeah, I suppose.

01:23:31.000 I mean, if that what is just put the weight above your head.

01:23:34.000 Like that guy did it normal that time right there.

01:23:36.000 That's a normal one.

01:23:37.000 Yeah.

01:23:38.000 But there's like, again, if you put in, you know, Thor versus CrossFit, then it will probably come up and you get to see an amazing crisp technique.

01:23:48.000 And then equally, Thor is basically doing what Brian was doing just there.

01:23:54.000 I'll say, here you go.

01:23:54.000 So this is, they keep putting on weight until one of them, I believe the competition here is you keep putting on, yeah, there you go, CrossFit versus the mountain.

01:24:00.000 It's an amazing technique, disappears under the bar.

01:24:03.000 You know, incredible.

01:24:04.000 And then I think, you know, Thor will eventually come in and give it a go and basically just upright rose.

01:24:09.000 Here we go.

01:24:10.000 So you saw that, you know, disappears under the bus.

01:24:13.000 Speed of movement.

01:24:14.000 Amazing.

01:24:15.000 And then Thor, come and have a go at this.

01:24:17.000 And this is what he produces.

01:24:23.000 So, there's that neuromuscular efficiency.

01:24:26.000 Well, it's just mad strength.

01:24:28.000 It is.

01:24:29.000 It is.

01:24:29.000 I mean, you could do that too if you just had an empty bar.

01:24:33.000 You know what I mean?

01:24:34.000 Like that kind of person, the kind of person that can do that.

01:24:37.000 When you think about him deadlifting a thousand pounds or any of these guys that can deadlift in insane numbers, just the whole machine can generate so much force.

01:24:47.000 Yeah.

01:24:48.000 And that's it though.

01:24:50.000 They're able to do that again because of that foundation.

01:24:53.000 Their body can generate that force.

01:24:56.000 And then you say, here's a new movement. 0.99

01:24:58.000 And you can see them look at, you know, like for that example, okay, so that's a cleaning jerk. 0.98

01:25:02.000 Okay, I can't figure that out, but I think I've found a way.

01:25:05.000 It also lends credence to the concept that deadlifts is like the mother of all exercises because it really does work all your muscle groups.

01:25:13.000 And if you can get really strong at deadlifts, I mean, it really does enhance almost any single athletic endeavor you participate in.

01:25:20.000 Yeah.

01:25:20.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:25:21.000 And I think, again, that's sort of been lost a little bit along the way that, you know, getting the joints, ligaments, muscles, everything to work cohesively.

01:25:29.000 And when you do that through your training, you can pretty much apply to anything.

01:25:32.000 So I think that's why, I mean, again, I used to swim ages, ages ago, way back in the day, but I was never going to make sort of an elite standard.

01:25:40.000 I'm You know, 5'9 on a good day, maybe.

01:25:43.000 I'm built like a hobbit, so everyone else is just great.

01:25:47.000 They're long and graceful.

01:25:48.000 Oh, yeah.

01:25:49.000 So I ended up, again, almost accidentally going into strength training.

01:25:53.000 I played water polo in the end to a fairly good level.

01:25:57.000 So I was doing that, but again, I just got beaten up.

01:25:59.000 I was 16 playing in the seniors league and, you know, just big guys with beards just beating me up.

01:26:05.000 You know, it's interesting what you were talking about earlier in terms of mental fortitude and your ability to adapt and your ability to overcome.

01:26:14.000 I wonder if we're ever going to figure out a way to measure that, like to measure mental endurance or measure mental capacity or mental stimulation.

01:26:24.000 You know, you can measure your VO2 max and you know what the body's capable of.

01:26:30.000 But I wonder if there's a way, like, when someone does hear a great song and it kicks in, whether it's through fMRI or any other type of detection device, where they can figure out a way, oh, this part of your brain is firing, let's concentrate on building up the activation of that part of that brain,

01:26:48.000 of the brain, like a muscle.

01:26:52.000 Think of that endurance or think of that motivation as like maybe even a mantra that you can call upon because you call upon it all the time and you can recreate that state.

01:27:03.000 Yeah.

01:27:04.000 I mean, I think on that point, certainly over in Britain at the moment, so basically women for the first time can actually apply and be in the special forces.

01:27:13.000 So at the moment, it's really, really interesting because speaking to certainly the Royal Marines, they were saying, We've got hundreds of years that if you hand us 500 young fit men, we can say they need to be this weight, this tall, and if you give us them,

01:27:29.000 we've got years and years of experience of putting them through this training system of mental and physical fortitude, everything down in Limstone, it's the training centre of the Royal Marines.

01:27:38.000 We go on this endurance course, we go on a 30-mile yomp with a backpack, everything, and by the end of 32 weeks, that's what it takes to be a Royal Marine, to get your Green Beret, after 32 weeks we can take you from being Completely, not sedentary, but unfit to being a Royal Marine.

01:27:53.000 And that's one thing they pride themselves on.

01:27:55.000 But now, what they're saying is obviously, you know, females can now apply to the Special Forces.

01:28:00.000 And what they find so interesting is, and I certainly do as well, is what does that look like for a female Royal Marine?

01:28:07.000 You know, what does that look like for a female? 1.00

01:28:09.000 And again, to go back, I mean, I wrote an article ages ago, Run Like a Girl.

01:28:15.000 And I was saying, I want to run like a girl. 0.96

01:28:17.000 You know, some of my best training partners are female and their perception to fatigue is unbelievable. 0.99

01:28:23.000 That's purely anecdotal, but also as well, when you look at the top tier of ultramarathon runners and swimming as well, Diana Naid first to go from Cuba to Florida, you know, incredible.

01:28:34.000 Like she was getting stung by Portuguese manawars and just unbelievable. 0.99

01:28:38.000 So it's purely outdated, but now they're saying, you know, why is it that certain female athletes have a greater tolerancy to pain?

01:28:46.000 And I think, to your point, if we can start to quantify that, because there are biological differences.

01:28:52.000 If you take men, you know, high testosterone can have an impact on high hemoglobin, generate muscle force, all of these things.

01:28:58.000 But I think if we could quantify why it is that certain female athletes are dominating the top 10% of ultramarathons and open water swimming, what is it that they're doing? 1.00

01:29:10.000 That would be amazing.

01:29:12.000 I think the ability to endure pain, and this is not my thought, honestly, I should just say this has been theorized before, has to do with their ability to endure the pain of childbirth.

01:29:24.000 Child labor and childbirth. 0.98

01:29:26.000 I mean, just the fact that they're forcing a baby out of their vagina. 1.00

01:29:30.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:29:30.000 I mean, that is insane. 1.00

01:29:32.000 I mean, you talk to...

01:29:33.000 Have you ever seen the machine they do?

01:29:35.000 They've taken these electrodes, they put it on men, and recreate the pain of childbirth.

01:29:40.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:29:41.000 And watch these men fucking fall apart. 1.00

01:29:44.000 Like, fucking turn it off! 1.00

01:29:45.000 No! 1.00

01:29:46.000 That would be tough.

01:29:46.000 Yeah.

01:29:48.000 I mean, obviously I haven't given birth, but it's supposed to be unbelievably painful.

01:29:53.000 And women are biologically suited to this. 1.00

01:29:56.000 So I think their ability to endure that pain is just, it's probably just, there's an evolutionary advantage to having this higher capacity.

01:30:07.000 But I also think one of the things that I learned from teaching martial arts is that women, they learn technique better many times than men do.

01:30:17.000 Because one, they listen.

01:30:19.000 And two, they don't try to muscle things.

01:30:22.000 So women have less of a problem with learning something from a person. 1.00

01:30:27.000 And this is also true about archery.

01:30:29.000 My friend John Dudley, who's an archery coach, says his favorite students are always women.

01:30:34.000 Because they listen better.

01:30:36.000 They don't have as much of an ego.

01:30:37.000 They don't have to pretend they already know something.

01:30:39.000 They don't want to just try it without...

01:30:41.000 They follow it to a T better, like generally.

01:30:44.000 Obviously, we're speaking in generalities.

01:30:45.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:30:46.000 But they also don't have the extra muscle that a man has.

01:30:52.000 So men, when they're strong, will try to just force things and muscle things.

01:30:56.000 Where women will try to follow what's being described to them, what's the proper technique. 1.00

01:31:02.000 Mm-hmm.

01:31:23.000 Because the smaller people, they don't have the physical strength to pull it off on a big guy.

01:31:29.000 So what they have to rely on is correct technique.

01:31:32.000 But if you learn jujitsu from a big guy, man, big guy jujitsu is weird.

01:31:37.000 Because they can just grab your wrist, and you can't let go, and they can get away with things.

01:31:42.000 Like, okay, you go wrist control and throw the legs up.

01:31:45.000 Wrist control?

01:31:46.000 Okay.

01:31:47.000 Wrist control on who? 1.00

01:31:48.000 Try wrist control on that big motherfucker that was rowing the world record. 1.00

01:31:52.000 You ain't getting shit, man. 1.00

01:31:54.000 You're going to go flying through the air. 0.99

01:31:55.000 That wrist control ain't going to work.

01:31:56.000 You're going to have to go against his strength.

01:31:59.000 You're going to have to figure out a way to move around it.

01:32:01.000 You're not going to go through it.

01:32:03.000 That big guy, if he was teaching jujitsu, just grab the neck and then you'll squeeze.

01:32:08.000 He's got the kind of horsepower that a man like a normal man can't imagine.

01:32:14.000 Yeah.

01:32:15.000 Do you think that's changing again, to bring it back to the UFC, I suppose, because now, I mean, with what Cormier's doing, and, you know, Jon Jones coming back, you know, the lightweights are all moving up to heavyweight.

01:32:25.000 Do you think, you know, gone are the days of the huge dude who was just a physical phenom, and now the smaller technical dude?

01:32:33.000 Well, there's a thought with the 265-pound weight class, and the consensus thought seems to be that somewhere around 240 pounds is the magic number.

01:32:44.000 That's what they think.

01:32:46.000 They think that 240 pounds is the amount of weight that you have where you're strong enough that you can knock out any man, but you have more endurance than a man that maybe weighs 265 or heavier and cuts down to 265. Now,

01:33:02.000 this has not been substantiated.

01:33:03.000 The problem is, there hasn't been a really super powerful world championship athlete that weighed 265 pounds.

01:33:13.000 There's been Brock Lesnar, but...

01:33:17.000 Brock Lesnar's enhanced, right?

01:33:20.000 You're dealing with a guy who tested positive for steroids.

01:33:23.000 He probably has had things.

01:33:24.000 And this is a new world.

01:33:26.000 He's also 40 years old now, so it's impossible to tell what he would have been like at 30 if he was clean.

01:33:32.000 And then you have guys like Francis Ngannou, who's 265 pounds, massive knockout artist, natural 265 pounds.

01:33:39.000 But...

01:33:40.000 Doesn't have the wrestling base.

01:33:42.000 Got exposed in his fight with Stipe Miocic.

01:33:44.000 If he can't knock you out, he's kind of doomed.

01:33:46.000 And he tired out after the first round.

01:33:48.000 So it's hard to say because there's never been a 265-pound version of Cain Velasquez.

01:33:54.000 But Cain Velasquez, in my humble opinion...

01:33:57.000 When I look at all of the different heavyweights that I've personally seen fight, Kane stands out as the best.

01:34:03.000 The reason why Kane stands out as the best is because he has superhuman endurance.

01:34:07.000 And his ability to put a pace on guys, you would see these guys just wilt under the pressure.

01:34:14.000 And I think with Kane, and this is where it gets really interesting...

01:34:28.000 Right.

01:34:30.000 Right. 1.00

01:34:42.000 He's just a fucking animal. 1.00

01:34:44.000 But that's also probably what led to him having this insane endurance is the same kind of mental toughness. 1.00

01:34:52.000 I'm sure there's some genetic advantages as well because they would talk about how he would take months off and come back in and still fuck everybody up because he's just that good.

01:35:00.000 But that also could be attributed to the cardio base that he had from competing for many, many, many, many years at a high level and being known for that insane endurance.

01:35:11.000 Mm-hmm.

01:35:11.000 And perception to fatigue.

01:35:12.000 Going back to what you said, if you could quantify that, you'd put Kane up there with one of those people and you'd go, he has that in abundance.

01:35:18.000 Yes.

01:35:20.000 Anyone else in the heavyweights then, would you say?

01:35:22.000 Cormier, for sure, has tremendous fatigue, ability to tolerate fatigue, and tremendous endurance, and he breaks people.

01:35:30.000 They call him the king of the grind.

01:35:32.000 But on top of that, what they both have is tremendous wrestling technique.

01:35:36.000 The wrestling technique, as well as the endurance, Everything plays a factor.

01:35:41.000 Jon Jones fits into that camp as well.

01:35:43.000 Jon Jones has tremendous wrestling technique as well, striking technique, massive physical skills, but also mental toughness.

01:35:50.000 His mental toughness is unchallengeable.

01:35:53.000 You absolutely have to give it up to him. 0.93

01:35:56.000 He's had his arm fucked up by Vitor Belfort, completely hyperextended, refused to tap, and then wound up tapping Vitor with an Americana, I believe it was, the next round. 0.76

01:36:06.000 Even his toe against Chael Sonnen. 0.99

01:36:08.000 Oh, his toe was fucked up. 0.99

01:36:10.000 I didn't even notice it until I was interviewing him. 0.99

01:36:12.000 I was interviewing him, he looked down, he was like, oh shit, look at my toe, and he started going into shock. 0.96

01:36:16.000 Was it as bad as it looked? 0.98

01:36:18.000 Oh, it was turned upside down.

01:36:19.000 It was completely turned upside down.

01:36:21.000 I mean, imagine that. 0.93

01:36:22.000 I mean, if he wound up going into the next round, if he didn't stop Chael Sonnen, and his toe was that fucked up, and he wound up losing to Chael Sonnen because his toe was bad, that's insane.

01:36:33.000 He also went through that fight with Alexander Gustafson, where he wasn't really training very hard for that fight, and Gustafson won the first couple rounds, and then Jon Jones won the last two to take it away.

01:36:46.000 And I watched that back, obviously, with all the promotion at the moment, and I think it was Winkle John Jackson when he started shouting, heart, heart, you know, shout out, and that was the deciding factor, that you come out and you...

01:36:58.000 Produce that.

01:36:59.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:36:59.000 Also in John Jones' favor, I believe, he has two fucking super-athlete brothers. 0.99

01:37:05.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:37:05.000 And they used to apparently beat the shit out of each other all the time, and his brothers are bigger than him. 0.99

01:37:09.000 Right. 0.98

01:37:09.000 I think that is a factor, because I think that there's mental toughness that comes from being around that kind of combat in the household all the time. 0.98

01:37:18.000 Yeah.

01:37:18.000 Yeah, I think it's a bunch of different...

01:37:20.000 But it's...

01:37:21.000 I don't know...

01:37:24.000 I think you can teach that.

01:37:26.000 I don't believe that mental toughness is something you either have or you don't have.

01:37:31.000 I don't believe that.

01:37:32.000 I think you can teach it.

01:37:33.000 But you gotta want it.

01:37:35.000 And you gotta be willing to learn.

01:37:37.000 You gotta be able to bring yourself to a state of mind where you're unbreakable.

01:37:42.000 I think it's possible.

01:37:43.000 I really do.

01:37:44.000 And some people just have that.

01:37:47.000 And I think they've developed it over a long period of time, and once they finally got to, whether it's wrestling or jiu-jitsu or MMA, they already had it, and then they accentuated it and added on to it, and then it got stronger, and then they become known for it.

01:38:02.000 Like, that guy is just an animal.

01:38:03.000 He's just mentally strong.

01:38:05.000 But I think that mental strength comes from many life experiences and probably...

01:38:10.000 Probably the guidance of their parents or some other role model in their life that also showed them incredible endurance and incredible discipline and this mental fortitude.

01:38:22.000 I think you can teach it, though.

01:38:24.000 I don't believe that it's something that's just either have or you don't have.

01:38:30.000 I think you either have it or you don't have it, but you can get it.

01:38:33.000 That's what I think.

01:38:34.000 And, you know, I'm a huge fan of Dan Hardy.

01:38:37.000 We've been chatting since the swim.

01:38:38.000 And I always go back to that armbar with George St. Pierre.

01:38:41.000 Oh, yeah.

01:38:42.000 And I was like, everybody would have tapped.

01:38:45.000 Oh, yeah.

01:38:45.000 And I couldn't get my head...

01:38:47.000 And I can't wait to catch up with Dan about that and sort of exchange notes on this idea of mental fortitude because how he survived that, I mean, it was...

01:38:56.000 It was horrendous.

01:38:57.000 I was cringing watching. 0.98

01:38:59.000 Well, Dan's a savage. 0.97

01:39:00.000 And he's an intelligent savage. 0.89

01:39:02.000 And, you know, he's not like a thug or a brutish guy.

01:39:08.000 He's a very well-read, intelligent, thoughtful guy.

01:39:13.000 But he's also a guy that knows how to dig deep, you know?

01:39:20.000 When he fought George St. Pierre, that was his big shot.

01:39:23.000 His big shot was against a guy who, at the time, was in his prime and was the greatest welterweight, arguably, of all time.

01:39:32.000 The argument is between him, Matt Hughes, and I believe now Tyron Woodley is in that camp as well.

01:39:38.000 It was the greatest welterweights ever.

01:39:41.000 What you get out of Dan Hardy is a guy who's thought things through.

01:39:44.000 It really comes through in his commentary.

01:39:46.000 He's a very, very intelligent guy.

01:39:48.000 Would you say he's cut from the same cloth as Cormier then?

01:39:51.000 I know Brendan spoke about this recently, saying he's the most intelligent fighter on the UFC roster at the moment.

01:39:57.000 Cormier?

01:39:58.000 Yeah.

01:39:58.000 In his approach, yeah.

01:40:00.000 In his approach and how he will break people.

01:40:02.000 But again, you know, when you watch, you know, UFC in bedding and stuff, you can't help but love Cormier.

01:40:07.000 He's such a nice guy.

01:40:09.000 And this goes back to what I suppose you said about the swim, you know, when it was like, oh, you're very smiling and stuff.

01:40:14.000 But I see that in Cormier.

01:40:16.000 He's the nicest guy, but I would never get in the octagon with him.

01:40:19.000 He's not fooling anyone. 1.00

01:40:21.000 No, he's a sweetheart until you're locked in a cage with him and he's going to fuck you up. 0.99

01:40:26.000 The difference between him and Dan Hardy, though, is that he's a world-class wrestler. 0.99

01:40:31.000 I mean, he was a two-time Olympic team member and just one of the best wrestlers to ever compete in MMA. And you really see that in a lot of his fights, like the Derrick Lewis fight.

01:40:40.000 Derrick had no chance.

01:40:42.000 Like, no chance.

01:40:43.000 You know, and Derrick just knocked out Alexander Volkov, who, in a lot of people's eyes, including mine, was one of the dark horses in the heavyweight division.

01:40:50.000 But Derek just did not belong in there with Cormier, who was the light heavyweight champion.

01:40:54.000 I mean, he carries a lot of fat on him.

01:40:56.000 And I think if he wanted to, if Daniel Cormier really dedicated himself, he could drop down to 185 pounds.

01:41:05.000 I really believe that.

01:41:06.000 But he's just...

01:41:08.000 Why would he? 1.00

01:41:09.000 He's a fucking heavyweight champion. 1.00

01:41:11.000 That's the difference between him and... 1.00

01:41:12.000 There's many differences between him and Dan.

01:41:15.000 The success ratio is very different.

01:41:17.000 Cormier's been extremely successful.

01:41:19.000 The only guy he's lost to is Jon Jones.

01:41:22.000 But...

01:41:22.000 But I find that with wrestling, and this is on a complete tangent here, but when you talk about that mind-body connection, like, so often they're seen as separate.

01:41:30.000 You're either an intellect or you're just a physical phenom.

01:41:33.000 Like, it's rare that you see the two, but when, again, ancient Greek philosophy, you look at Plato, like, Plato was an accomplished, celebrated wrestler.

01:41:40.000 Yes.

01:41:41.000 I think he said something along the lines of, you know, you should wrestle to find the answers that philosophers seek.

01:41:46.000 It was something like that.

01:41:47.000 He was such an advocate of it.

01:41:49.000 And I think, and again, this is coming from, you know, sort of my limited background, because obviously in Britain we don't have wrestling like over here and stuff, but there's something about wrestling, it seems, or I suppose my question to you is like that it just teaches that mental fortitude.

01:42:06.000 You know, yeah, physically, yeah, neuromuscular efficiency and stuff, but...

01:42:10.000 It seems to have just produced this breed of humans that, you know, did you think?

01:42:17.000 There's something about being face down in a mat as somebody's just trying to contort your limbs, you know, so that to go back to stress and stimuli, you know, it's also building up.

01:42:28.000 That progressive overload in your own head.

01:42:30.000 Yes.

01:42:30.000 And what you just said there about experiences that quite often now when I go swimming, I'm like, it's not the curry of Ekin.

01:42:38.000 I'm not wearing a jellyfish tentacle on my face.

01:42:41.000 You know, it's not that bad.

01:42:42.000 Right.

01:42:43.000 And I think...

01:42:44.000 Do you think it's the same with wrestling, that you're like, I've been in a worse position than this?

01:42:50.000 I think for sure.

01:42:51.000 I think there's the strength that they have, the intellectual strength, and when I say intellectual strength, they're actually solving puzzles.

01:43:01.000 Whether people understand it or not, you look at wrestling and you think it's always brute force and strength and endurance, but they're solving puzzles.

01:43:08.000 They're setting traps, they're trying to set up techniques, and they're doing this under heavy workload.

01:43:14.000 They're exhausted, their heart's pounding, and they're resisting 100% with another person who's resisting 100%.

01:43:21.000 When you see guys tie up and they're throwing each other around and they're fucking digging their toes into the mat and they're yanking and wrenching, that is a tremendous amount of force that they have to keep up for minutes and minutes at a time.

01:43:33.000 And I think a lot of that has to do with your ability to maintain intensity.

01:43:37.000 And a lot of that has to do with your ability to tolerate being exhausted and tolerate fatigue and to force yourself into a highly aggressive and efficient mindset.

01:43:49.000 And to be able to maintain proper technique under fatigue.

01:43:52.000 That's a good point.

01:43:53.000 Technique and intelligence, I believe.

01:43:55.000 Again, with the Royal Marines, we can be...

01:43:57.000 When training with them, I find that it's crazy how you'll have the cognitive functioning of a five-year-old.

01:44:04.000 You know, you are complete.

01:44:05.000 Right, right, right.

01:44:06.000 You're in a 30-mile yacht with 50 kg on your backpack and somebody asks you some really complex question and you're just like...

01:44:12.000 I don't know.

01:44:14.000 And I think, certainly going back to the swim, there's times where I said to the team, I was like, please, when I'm six hours into a swim through the night, I need just really clear instructions.

01:44:25.000 Just like, Ross swim this way, Ross swim that direction.

01:44:28.000 And again, purely anecdotal for the moment, but I love Cowboy Cerrone and there's times when he's just in his corner and he's just having a full-on conversation.

01:44:37.000 He's so relaxed.

01:44:38.000 Yeah.

01:44:38.000 You know, and it's just like that.

01:44:40.000 You could see somebody probably fatigued and they're panicking and he's just sitting on the stool.

01:44:45.000 He's got great endurance too.

01:44:47.000 That helps.

01:44:47.000 That certainly helps.

01:44:48.000 His ability to recover between rounds.

01:44:50.000 Did you see his fight this weekend?

01:44:51.000 I've got to catch up on it with Perry.

01:44:53.000 Sensational.

01:44:54.000 Really?

01:44:55.000 Sensational.

01:44:55.000 The best he's ever looked.

01:44:56.000 But he was on the bottom when Perry...

01:44:58.000 Yeah, I mean, Perry took him down, but he said to me, he goes, he's trying to take me down. 0.99

01:45:02.000 I was like, shit, I'm going to let him. 0.98

01:45:03.000 He said, I'll let him take me down. 0.99

01:45:05.000 And then he reversed him immediately and got him in an arm bar and then broke his arm.

01:45:08.000 He snapped his forearm in half.

01:45:10.000 He sent me the x-rays.

01:45:12.000 Yeah, yeah, I'll show you two.

01:45:14.000 No, no.

01:45:15.000 I don't think anybody's seen this.

01:45:16.000 Sorry, Donald.

01:45:17.000 This is an exclusive.

01:45:18.000 I'm sending this. 1.00

01:45:19.000 If I'm not supposed to send this, I gotta send this shit. 0.99

01:45:23.000 Yeah, we've been going back and forth. 0.99

01:45:24.000 And, you know, for him, I think it was a matter of rekindling his excitement.

01:45:28.000 Here it is.

01:45:29.000 Yeah, it was pretty emotional.

01:45:31.000 Oh, that hurts, right?

01:45:34.000 Can you see that?

01:45:35.000 You want me to send it to you?

01:45:36.000 Here, I'll send it to you, Jamie.

01:45:40.000 Also, I think with Donald, when we're talking about stimulation and motivation, he has a son now.

01:45:47.000 He has a little baby son, and he brought his son into the octagon with him and was celebrating with his son.

01:45:51.000 He just seemed different to me.

01:45:53.000 He seemed different in his poise, completely in control. 0.99

01:45:56.000 The guy who's fighting, Mike Perry, is fucking dangerous. 1.00

01:46:00.000 He's fucking dangerous. 1.00

01:46:01.000 He hits really hard. 1.00

01:46:02.000 He's very aggressive.

01:46:04.000 And Donald just handled him.

01:46:06.000 And Perry took him down, I think, because he didn't like what was going on stand-up-wise. 1.00

01:46:11.000 He just snapped that shit. 0.99

01:46:13.000 But you mentioned there as well with Cerrone talking about his son. 1.00

01:46:16.000 It was such an emotional post that he posted on Instagram and I loved it.

01:46:19.000 And going back to what you said about finding something that alters your biochemistry, you know, and now that he's fighting for something and he's got his kid.

01:46:32.000 Did you think that's...

01:46:34.000 We were talking about music before.

01:46:36.000 We were talking about getting his mindset.

01:46:37.000 Maybe you use caffeine, like whatever it is.

01:46:40.000 But something do you think is now different in Cerrone?

01:46:44.000 It's love.

01:46:45.000 Yeah!

01:46:46.000 Yeah, the love of his children.

01:46:47.000 He has something that...

01:46:49.000 What he said was, I never knew what I was fighting for.

01:46:53.000 He said, now I have something to fight for.

01:46:55.000 I think he was fighting for excitement before.

01:46:57.000 For thrills, because he's a thrill-seeker. 1.00

01:47:00.000 He's a wild motherfucker. 0.99

01:47:01.000 He likes jet skiing and jumping snowmobiles off the side of mountains. 1.00

01:47:06.000 He's an animal.

01:47:07.000 A week before a fight. 1.00

01:47:08.000 Yeah, he doesn't give a fuck. 1.00

01:47:09.000 He does not. 0.99

01:47:10.000 But this is a different thing.

01:47:12.000 What he's doing in this fight in particular, I think, this is a different thing because he's fighting for his son.

01:47:19.000 I mean, he's got this family now, and it means the world to him.

01:47:22.000 And he looks over at this guy like this guy's trying to take food from his family.

01:47:26.000 Yeah.

01:47:27.000 And he just was an efficient assassin.

01:47:30.000 It was beautiful to watch.

01:47:32.000 It was like, I think, the best performance of his career.

01:47:35.000 And, you know, maybe Mike Perry is not as good as Darren Till or as Rafael dos Anjos or some of the other people that he's fought in the past, but he's fucking dangerous and he's a legit welterweight, where Donald's not.

01:47:45.000 Donald could fight at 155 pounds.

01:47:48.000 That's one of the things Donald said after the fight.

01:47:49.000 He said, Khabib, he goes, I'm back.

01:47:51.000 I'm coming for you.

01:47:52.000 So he wants to drop down to 155 and fight Khabib.

01:47:55.000 Do you think he might now?

01:47:56.000 Something's different, do you think?

01:47:57.000 Do you think he can make a tire run? 1.00

01:47:59.000 Listen, man, Khabib is the motherfucker of all motherfuckers. 1.00

01:48:02.000 Agreed. 1.00

01:48:02.000 You know, I mean, I don't know who's going to beat that dude, but that dude, Molly Watt. 1.00

01:48:07.000 Askren?

01:48:07.000 Maybe, but Askren is a different weight class.

01:48:09.000 See, Askren's 70, and Khabib's 55. If Khabib and Askren agreed to a catchweight fight, that is absolutely a possibility.

01:48:18.000 And absolutely a possibility that Askren could best him.

01:48:21.000 Because if someone's going to beat Khabib, it's going to be someone who's a superior wrestler. 0.99

01:48:25.000 And Askren is a motherfucker of a wrestler. 0.95

01:48:28.000 But is he better than Khabib? 0.98

01:48:30.000 We really don't know and we will not know until they fight.

01:48:33.000 But I do have to say that Khabib in the training camp at AKA, this is coming straight from Cormier and a bunch of other people that train with him, say that he trains with Olympic caliber wrestlers and fucks them up.

01:48:46.000 That's how good Khabib is.

01:48:48.000 Khabib is, he's so goddamned good on the ground.

01:48:53.000 When he gets a hold of guys, they look perplexed. 0.99

01:48:56.000 And I always bring up the Edson-Barboza fight, because the moment in the Barboza fight in the first round, where he had that thousand-yard stare, where Khabib had taken him down, and he was mauling him, and he looked over in the distance like, how the fuck am I going to get through three rounds of this shit? 0.99

01:49:08.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.96

01:49:09.000 And that's the thing with Barboza.

01:49:11.000 I mean, Terrietta, that kick, he just won.

01:49:13.000 Ooh! 0.96

01:49:14.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:49:16.000 So to see that, it was just...

01:49:18.000 I mean, it felt like if I was to do mixed martial arts and jiu-jitsu, I know you spoke about it before.

01:49:24.000 You said if somebody doesn't know what they're doing, like me, it's like drowning.

01:49:29.000 And that's exactly how I would feel, I think.

01:49:33.000 It was just...

01:49:35.000 But it's something that you could learn.

01:49:37.000 See, the thing, what you've done, in my eyes, what you've done is so difficult.

01:49:43.000 I think you could do anything.

01:49:45.000 I really do. 0.99

01:49:46.000 I think what you did by forcing yourself to do that shit for six hours a day, take a break, six hours again, to do 12 hours of swimming every day for five fucking months, that kind of mental fortitude, if someone just taught you I mean, 0.99

01:50:01.000 obviously you're very physically strong and fit. 1.00

01:50:03.000 If someone just taught you technique and taught you how to grapple and taught you kickboxing, you would be a motherfucker at it because your mind is so strong. 0.99

01:50:14.000 There's a different mindset to have that same kind of mind strength with the adversity of another human being trying to kill you. 0.99

01:50:21.000 See, that's the thing.

01:50:22.000 How well do people deal with other people's...

01:50:25.000 Like, there's something about a person breathing down your neck that's trying to choke you that's very disconcerting. 0.99

01:50:31.000 But if you can get past that, and I think you could, you would be a motherfucker at anything you did. 0.99

01:50:36.000 And that's actually the thing. 0.98

01:50:37.000 I mean, even at the moment now, I'm used to just training for 12 hours a day.

01:50:43.000 So right now, I'm still sort of in biphasic sleep.

01:50:46.000 So I've only been on land, really, a week.

01:50:48.000 That's crazy.

01:50:49.000 Were you sleeping in a boat this whole time?

01:50:51.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:50:53.000 Six hours off.

01:50:56.000 What is it like to have the ground not move?

01:50:58.000 Just standing.

01:50:59.000 Honestly, when I got on, I was doing media interviews and everything was swaying.

01:51:06.000 Even that night, my first night, the bed, it sounds so weird, but the bed was just a bit too stable, it was a bit too comfy.

01:51:13.000 I woke up in the middle of the night, I was with my girlfriend, and I'm looking for my goggles, thinking the tide's about to change.

01:51:19.000 You're about to jump back in?

01:51:20.000 Yeah, and she was just like, go back to bed. 0.99

01:51:22.000 Honestly, I say it now like sort of joking, but there was a real element of, you know, just that you'd been conditioned.

01:51:29.000 And all I really cared about, as soon as I woke up, I wanted to know what the tides were doing.

01:51:34.000 You know, where's it running?

01:51:37.000 When does it start?

01:51:38.000 Have we got good tide or bad tide?

01:51:40.000 Is it spring tides or neat tides?

01:51:41.000 So spring tides being stronger, neat tides being stronger.

01:51:43.000 And that was my currency.

01:51:45.000 That's all I cared about.

01:51:46.000 Yeah.

01:51:47.000 And it was really strange to try now and integrate back into society.

01:51:53.000 Even just walking through LA, the cars, everything moves very fast now.

01:51:57.000 And you kind of come back and it's a bit of a shock.

01:52:01.000 It's a real shock.

01:52:02.000 You must feel like you're in an alternate universe or something.

01:52:04.000 To go through five months of one reality and then to come out on the other end.

01:52:09.000 Yeah.

01:52:10.000 It does.

01:52:11.000 So I almost, but then even intrinsically or something, my body's used to working hard for 12 hours a day and just getting battered by waves.

01:52:20.000 So at the moment, you know, I'm sort of sitting here and, you know, I've been doing media all week and it's been amazing, but there's an element of me just kind of going, I need to use this work capacity.

01:52:29.000 And so I am sort of training at the moment.

01:52:31.000 The first session I did, I was in there for like six hours, and they were like, the gym's shutting, Ross.

01:52:36.000 And I was just like, oh, okay.

01:52:37.000 You probably can't get tired.

01:52:39.000 That's crazy.

01:52:40.000 There is that element.

01:52:42.000 One of the things that we all talked about after Sober October was that none of us had ever done anything like this before, but we're worried now that we're going to go back to our sedentary ways, and then we're going to lose all this work that we put in.

01:52:52.000 Because at the end of the month, Ari, who had never worked out before, ran 15 miles, rode 5 kilometers, and then got on the bike for a while.

01:53:00.000 I forget what he did on the bike, but I think he did at least a mile on the bike.

01:53:04.000 And this was a 4 plus hour workout, but he had never done anything before.

01:53:10.000 I mean, he did jiu-jitsu.

01:53:12.000 I bought him some jiu-jitsu lessons.

01:53:14.000 I bought him a year at 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, like...

01:53:18.000 Like, 10 years ago.

01:53:20.000 He went for a while and then he hurt his knee and stopped going.

01:53:23.000 But he was 10 years of nothing. 0.99

01:53:26.000 And he's fucking 40-something years old. 0.99

01:53:29.000 And he forced himself through mental fortitude. 1.00

01:53:31.000 So he's shifted.

01:53:32.000 I mean, we're so, like, the human body, I found, is so lazy.

01:53:35.000 Like, we love homeostasis, our habitual level, what we're used to doing.

01:53:39.000 You know, that status quo.

01:53:41.000 And then, so when you do shift that, and it's all relative, because, you know, it can be, you know, Swimming for 12 hours a day and stuff, but it's relative.

01:53:49.000 And I think when you do shift that, it is hard.

01:53:54.000 And I think you have to be so conscious of that.

01:53:57.000 So even now, for instance, my legs at the moment shrunk, but not just my legs.

01:54:03.000 I mean, I essentially skipped leg day for 157 days.

01:54:08.000 But your arms must be jacked.

01:54:10.000 It's kind of it.

01:54:11.000 So we went into the gym the other day and because of ligaments, tendons, but not only just generating force like a bench press, but if you imagine like 40 knots of wind, you know, wind over tide that we're talking, my shoulders are used to being contorted in ways that they shouldn't.

01:54:28.000 So your shoulders are resisting the wind as it's coming towards me.

01:54:31.000 So you're pushing with your shoulders.

01:54:34.000 Yeah, and the amount of times I would take a stroke and then a wind.

01:54:36.000 I mean, there's times when the waves hit me so hard, I thought I've just hit a boat.

01:54:41.000 You know, I hit something and that would be poor.

01:54:43.000 So it was that resistance as well.

01:54:45.000 So on the bench press, it was just kind of like took, you know, 160. You know, I'm not saying it's necessary just as a sort of sports science experiment.

01:54:54.000 I kind of unlifted and then just took 160 kilos just for a ride.

01:54:57.000 And It just kind of felt okay.

01:54:59.000 What's 160 kilos?

01:55:00.000 160 kilos in...

01:55:03.000 Sorry, Jamie.

01:55:05.000 But then, equally, my legs, you know, in the squat, I'm barely lifting my own body weight.

01:55:10.000 350. 350, yeah, for, you know, eight reps.

01:55:14.000 It's that sort of strength.

01:55:16.000 And so you had lifted weights in five months, and yet you're like, upper body, but please...

01:55:22.000 But lower body, no! 0.99

01:55:25.000 You know, and it's not even that, though.

01:55:26.000 Like, you know, my legs, it's my feet as well.

01:55:30.000 So right now, genuinely, and a lot of people afterwards are like, what are you going to do next?

01:55:34.000 You know, what's the next adventure?

01:55:35.000 And I said, I've got to learn to walk again.

01:55:37.000 And everyone laughed, and I was like, no, no, no.

01:55:39.000 Like, the arches in my foot have collapsed, those ligaments and tendons.

01:55:43.000 So it's, I mean, I think a lot of...

01:55:48.000 Yeah, you've got to think, 12 hours in the water every day, but even when I was on the boat, I was probably eating or sleeping.

01:55:54.000 Whoa, I didn't even think about that.

01:55:55.000 So your load capacity, your ability to hold your body weight up is diminished.

01:56:01.000 Yeah, I almost entered into this small group of people, like astronauts, where you've been in a non-weight-bearing environment for so long.

01:56:10.000 So I joke, and when we watched that video back, and I was saying, try not to fall over there.

01:56:16.000 Genuinely, I was thinking, please don't just fall over with all the characters I'm clapping.

01:56:22.000 Another thing that intrigues me is you're a young guy.

01:56:25.000 A lot of these endurance guys are old, angry people. 0.99

01:56:30.000 They get older and they develop this ability to just fucking fuck the world and push through things. 0.99

01:56:38.000 How old are you? 1.00

01:56:38.000 Yeah, 33. Yeah, that's very young to do what you did, isn't it? 1.00

01:56:43.000 Yeah, and I think you're right, actually.

01:56:45.000 And that would be a really sort of good point to make there.

01:56:48.000 I always think when people say, I'm too old now to train and stuff, I'm like, absolutely not.

01:56:52.000 Yes, granted, when you're younger, elasticity in your ligaments, yeah, higher testosterone, muscle mass, ability to increase muscle mass and stuff.

01:57:00.000 Absolutely.

01:57:01.000 But when you're older...

01:57:03.000 And to your point there, Joe, when you look at these, you know, back in England, fell running, which we were talking about, you get these guys who just look like they live in the mountains, you know, weathered faces, you know, their calves are just like this, just thick calves.

01:57:17.000 And they have that...

01:57:19.000 Capillary density, that like mitochondrial efficiency, movement efficiency.

01:57:24.000 So their cardiorespiratory endurance has just been built up from years and years.

01:57:29.000 And these sorts of people as well, they almost, they love the mountains and running so much that they don't care that they're overtraining or like they need a rest. 1.00

01:57:38.000 Look at that old motherfucker. 1.00

01:57:41.000 There we go. 1.00

01:57:42.000 Honestly.

01:57:43.000 Jesus Christ.

01:57:43.000 So when I'm Fel Runner, I am getting lapped, you know, by guys like...

01:57:47.000 Fel Runner Josh Naylor.

01:57:49.000 There you go.

01:57:50.000 Those are all fell runners.

01:57:51.000 That's fell runners.

01:57:51.000 Look at those guys.

01:57:52.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:57:52.000 Run into a gay bathhouse. 1.00

01:57:54.000 All of them. 1.00

01:57:56.000 Why don't they wear such short shorts?

01:57:57.000 So this is it.

01:57:58.000 Put some clothes on, boys.

01:58:00.000 What's up with those shorts?

01:58:02.000 They're the fell running shorts.

01:58:03.000 Okay.

01:58:03.000 You have to wear those shorts?

01:58:04.000 They're not compulsory.

01:58:06.000 Seems like it is. 1.00

01:58:07.000 And you've got numbers next to your dick. 1.00

01:58:08.000 That's weird, too. 1.00

01:58:09.000 I would have brought you a pair if I didn't.

01:58:11.000 I wouldn't wear them.

01:58:12.000 Come on, bro. 0.97

01:58:13.000 Those are shorts that a girl would wear in a porno movie. 0.99

01:58:16.000 No, no.

01:58:17.000 They're in a legitimate uniform!

01:58:22.000 But actually, to this point, I mean, if it's possible, James, it's called the Bob Graham.

01:58:29.000 So there's a famous fell race, going back to sort of the Barclay Mountains, there's a famous fell race back in England called the Bob Graham.

01:58:35.000 And, you know, legend has it, there was a guy, Bob Graham, and he sort of said, you know, I think I can do 44 peaks in the Lake District in under 24 hours.

01:58:44.000 And they were like, no, no, no, that's not possible.

01:58:45.000 That's not possible.

01:58:46.000 He said, yeah.

01:58:46.000 So it was like a bet in a pub.

01:58:48.000 And they were like, yeah.

01:58:49.000 And sure enough, that's what he did.

01:58:51.000 And so there's this race now called the Bob Graham.

01:58:53.000 And it's amazing in that it's steeped in history and heritage.

01:58:57.000 There's a hall in Keswick, which is a small town.

01:59:00.000 It's called Moot Hall.

01:59:02.000 And if you were standing there, Joe, and you're in your running gear with those shorts on...

01:59:06.000 But you were running there with your running gear and you had your hand on Moot Hall and you were looking at your watch like that.

01:59:12.000 Runners would walk past you and just be like, oh, he's about to do his Bob Graham.

01:59:16.000 You know, they'd come over.

01:59:17.000 There's that real solidarity that, you know, like, good luck, good luck.

01:59:21.000 And then you have to do it in 24 hours.

01:59:24.000 And Billy Bland, who was the one who set the record, which has only just been beaten by Killian Jornet, who recently ran up Everest.

01:59:32.000 as well but i think he um yeah so many savages out there it's so this and what i love about this is um oh there you go is that yeah yeah there you go killian jornette so the guy behind in the blue um set the record and it says there i needed to suffer says killian jornette after breaking the record that has stood for 36 years 36 years wow i needed to suffer but but these guys and it and it goes back to you know Too often it's sports science,

02:00:01.000 sports nutrition.

02:00:01.000 Let's look at your gait analysis, running biomechanics.

02:00:04.000 What footwear are you using?

02:00:06.000 Minimalist shoes or not?

02:00:07.000 Go back to that photo.

02:00:08.000 Whereas with this, with fell running, it took 36 years for somebody to get close to that record.

02:00:14.000 So it's like, wow, what were they doing?

02:00:28.000 Oh, okay.

02:00:31.000 So it's just a matter of getting up and above and over it, no matter what path you take?

02:00:36.000 Yeah, yeah, but certainly efficient, if you know of something.

02:00:39.000 And so that guy in the front there is pacing him, basically, because it's very easy to get lost on themselves.

02:00:43.000 There's no specific path that you have to take?

02:00:46.000 You just have to get over it?

02:00:47.000 There's certain points that you have to get to, but then in terms of the terrain and the path to it, no, not really.

02:00:52.000 So it's just point to point to point to point?

02:00:54.000 Yeah.

02:00:54.000 How do they mark those points?

02:00:56.000 Do they have, like, cones or something?

02:00:57.000 I mean, this, yeah, will be long established that to do the Bob Graham, you need to do that point, that point.

02:01:01.000 And then you come back to Moot Hall, you know, within hopefully 24 hours.

02:01:06.000 And if you do it, then you have your Bob Graham.

02:01:10.000 These guys look like a guy that would do that, whereas you don't.

02:01:14.000 This is my point about you and endurance.

02:01:17.000 Like, your physique, you don't see a guy with your physique doing this kind of stuff.

02:01:23.000 Do you think that you could do this kind of stuff?

02:01:26.000 Running, I mean, no.

02:01:27.000 And I always say I'm not self-deprecating at all.

02:01:30.000 How much do you weigh?

02:01:31.000 I think at the moment about 100 kilos, which is a lot.

02:01:34.000 220?

02:01:35.000 Yeah, so that's about the year.

02:01:36.000 220 pounds?

02:01:37.000 Yeah.

02:01:38.000 Yeah.

02:01:38.000 So, yeah, the Bob Graham is something completely different, and that goes back to what we were talking about, about power-to-weight ratio in a weight-bearing sport.

02:01:44.000 So with something like running...

02:01:45.000 Because you're so heavy.

02:01:47.000 Yeah.

02:01:47.000 And even though you have a lot of power...

02:01:49.000 Yeah.

02:01:49.000 Do you think it would be possible if you put...

02:01:52.000 If you added more power to...

02:01:53.000 Obviously not now, because you're getting off for five months on a boat.

02:01:56.000 But if you...

02:01:58.000 You built your legs and your feet back up.

02:02:00.000 Do you think you could do this?

02:02:03.000 Possibly, but nowhere near.

02:02:05.000 I mean, Killian Jornette, he's amazing.

02:02:07.000 I mean, with Killian, he, I believe, he's almost sort of semi-nomadic.

02:02:12.000 He grew up in the hills.

02:02:14.000 Semi-nomadic.

02:02:14.000 Yeah, no, so for him, he would run a marathon to go and get his carton of milk in the morning.

02:02:21.000 Oh, Jesus.

02:02:21.000 You know, so when you are lining up on a start line, I mean, if you're racing against Killian, you look over and you've got a guy like that.

02:02:27.000 Fuck. 1.00

02:02:28.000 Yeah! 1.00

02:02:28.000 You just go like, I'm out, I'm out. 1.00

02:02:31.000 You can't beat that guy, but he is built for that.

02:02:37.000 But you don't think that guy's built for swimming.

02:02:39.000 If that guy had to do what you did swimming-wise, he would be at a disadvantage.

02:02:44.000 Over a certain difference, going back to the belt That somebody like that and in my experience when I've raced or swum with you know guys who are doing you know 10 kilometre they will be quicker than me over 10 kilometres but then it gets to a point when we're like you know 30 kilometres in where their biomechanics just because of muscular endurance that starts to break down maybe as well and this is so often overlooked actually but you've got to train your digestive system so Again,

02:03:12.000 this is mainly anecdotal, but in strength-based sports, a lot of guys won't think anything about putting away 15,000 calories a day, which is what I was doing.

02:03:22.000 You were doing that while you were swimming?

02:03:24.000 Yeah.

02:03:25.000 15,000?

02:03:26.000 Yeah, 15,000 calories.

02:03:27.000 What was it in?

02:03:28.000 A lot of it, you were sitting down once you got inside the boat.

02:03:31.000 Yeah.

02:03:32.000 And what were you eating?

02:03:33.000 Just...

02:03:33.000 It was so intuitive, so it was kind of strange because the diet was calorie dense, so you have to make up your calorie requirements of the day.

02:03:40.000 Also looking at nutrient dense, because you've got to care for your immune system, but equally palatability, so when my tongue was falling apart, you know, I needed to look at that.

02:03:47.000 And even seasickness, which we've not really spoke about as well, which is kind of like you need something that hits those four points.

02:03:53.000 And that's 15,000 calories a day.

02:03:54.000 So for me, that was quite often just like porridge oats, you know, mixed with honey, mixed with almond butter.

02:04:00.000 And then even looking, oh, here we go.

02:04:02.000 Yeah, so...

02:04:03.000 Was this you eating?

02:04:04.000 What's that?

02:04:05.000 It was.

02:04:05.000 Yeah.

02:04:07.000 Oh, there might be one there somewhere.

02:04:09.000 Yeah.

02:04:09.000 What is that in that bowl?

02:04:11.000 Beans, mostly?

02:04:12.000 Yeah, and this is why it just got to the point where it was like, what can you just eat?

02:04:16.000 Like, what is going to...

02:04:17.000 So I was just eating out of the pan. 0.97

02:04:18.000 Just trying to shove it in your face. 0.81

02:04:20.000 Yeah.

02:04:21.000 So, like, what would you eat?

02:04:22.000 Like, what were the foods?

02:04:23.000 Oh, this is probably quite a good one.

02:04:25.000 Yeah, it'll play.

02:04:25.000 So, yeah, there you go.

02:04:26.000 Like, in terms of...

02:04:27.000 So, essentially, as a nutritional sort of, in theory, the framework, you get...

02:04:32.000 What was that mask?

02:04:33.000 Oh, so that was to stop the jellyfish.

02:04:35.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

02:04:36.000 Yeah, no...

02:04:38.000 No, but it doesn't matter.

02:04:40.000 Like, even the mass, because the giant jellyfish of Scotland, and there'll be a picture on there somewhere, they're kind of like six feet long.

02:04:46.000 So when you're swimming at night and you can't see them, the tentacles, they'll just kind of, they'll get you.

02:04:52.000 And so I got, like, they go in your mouth and your ear.

02:04:55.000 I got one in my ear.

02:04:56.000 I got, like, wet-willied by a jellyfish.

02:04:58.000 It just kind of, like, got me there.

02:04:59.000 So it's like that...

02:05:01.000 That, yeah, they're trying to find and adapt the same way with the mass, but nutritionally as well.

02:05:06.000 But also looking at, as a framework, you're having your protein, which is pretty stable, you know, 1.7 grams per kg of body weight per day.

02:05:14.000 You know, that kind of stays the same.

02:05:15.000 So then for the rest of the 15,000 calories, you basically need to make it up with your two energy-yielding macronutrients, so carbs and fats.

02:05:23.000 And so for me, it was very carb-dependent because when you are swimming through a giant whirlpool, you can't say, can I have some fats, which the body has to go a certain process, it's going to take longer.

02:05:32.000 No, you just need fast-acting carbohydrates.

02:05:34.000 But then equally, looking at MCTs, so median chain triglycerides as well, which are a fat, so they have the calorie density of a fat.

02:05:45.000 But they're treated more like a carbohydrate rather than long-chain triglycerides.

02:05:49.000 So there was a certain amount of science to it.

02:05:51.000 A lot of people would say, you know, 15,000 calories, does that mean pizza and everything?

02:05:55.000 It was like, well, you know, yes, to an extent, but then place too much emphasis on that and you're not caring for your immune system as well.

02:06:03.000 Right.

02:06:04.000 To get 15,000 calories, I think, yeah, I always point out that it's using things like MCTs, which you'll find in coconut oil, and certainly, again, not to get too much on the science, but capric and caprylic acid, which are converted to ATP, adenosine triphosphate, it's the molecular energy of the muscles.

02:06:19.000 When you understand how to use MCTs like that, It can be quite easy to make up 15,000 calories, but you try and make up 15,000 calories of vegetables, right?

02:06:31.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:06:32.000 Especially you like have like protein and then fruit and it requires a different digestive enzyme.

02:06:37.000 And then you're going to tell me to go and swim through a giant whirlpool and roll on my stomach for 12 hours a day.

02:06:42.000 It's just like with seasickness, it's not going to happen.

02:06:44.000 Yeah.

02:06:45.000 You just, you must need a lot of like really dense foods.

02:06:48.000 Yeah.

02:06:48.000 And that's the thing that it goes back to, again, this bell curve that I've spoke about, but, you know, quite often a lot of endurance athletes that I've trained with who are amazing, they're unbelievable, they're sub-three-hour marathoners, they're incredible, you know, they're the guys that will go and run the Bob Graham...

02:07:04.000 But quite often they say, but Ross can just eat.

02:07:07.000 And it's just like, yeah, that's often overlooked.

02:07:11.000 You know, that my body, you know, I didn't have a sick day throughout the whole swim.

02:07:14.000 That's crazy.

02:07:15.000 And I started at 92 kilos.

02:07:19.000 You know, when you look at the pictures from the start to the finish, I just look.

02:07:24.000 Like just like hairier.

02:07:27.000 Yeah, but just also just bulk because you are asking your body to swim around Great Britain.

02:07:34.000 So it's not just the fact that you are you don't want to be in a calorie deficit.

02:07:38.000 Can you imagine how much micro trauma the body's going to go through?

02:07:41.000 So you're essentially just trying to nurse the body saying, look, I know this is horrible.

02:07:46.000 I know it's cold.

02:07:47.000 I know I'm asking you to swim for 12 hours a day.

02:07:50.000 I know there's going to be jellyfish, toxins.

02:07:52.000 I mean, I've stung like 20 times in one night in a single tide.

02:07:56.000 So it got to the point where I talked about my face sort of changing shape, but equally the toxins in your body, your heart would start beating faster.

02:08:05.000 So there was just this idea that just eat just to look after the body.

02:08:09.000 So when it comes to nutrition, were you taking any supplements?

02:08:14.000 Were you taking vitamins?

02:08:16.000 Yeah, lots.

02:08:17.000 And that goes to, like I said, that calorie density, but also to make sure that you're making the immune system.

02:08:24.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:08:24.000 What are you taking?

02:08:26.000 Everything from super green shakes, you know, to multivitamins, to protein shakes, just to make sure that you were supplementing that calorie density.

02:08:35.000 I think it's so often overlooked, the higher turnover of...

02:08:39.000 Like phytochemicals, enzymes, micronutrients.

02:08:42.000 What about fish oil?

02:08:43.000 Anything along those lines?

02:08:44.000 Yeah, omega-3s, yeah.

02:08:45.000 And that's what...

02:08:46.000 Just anything that you were thinking, well, this is even to glutamine, to a higher turnover of amino acids.

02:08:53.000 So after...

02:08:54.000 For instance, after training as well, you can have...

02:08:57.000 All the protein in the world, but if it has a low biological value, so I'm going to try and keep this quite short, but if you look at, you know, immediately after a workout, you know, your body's basically saying, look, we need protein to repair and regrow.

02:09:09.000 Protein synthesis.

02:09:10.000 And your muscles are saying, please.

02:09:11.000 But if you don't have a high concentration of leucine specifically, so branched chain amino acids, leucine within that is what will trigger to your motor receptors to basically repair and regrow.

02:09:21.000 So quite often you can have all the protein in the world, but if it's of a low biological value, if it's not very Good quality protein.

02:09:29.000 Your body's not going to assimilate it.

02:09:30.000 Right.

02:09:31.000 So it's not about the protein that you eat.

02:09:33.000 It's about the protein you assimilate.

02:09:34.000 Right.

02:09:35.000 So you would take branched-chain amino acids post-workout?

02:09:38.000 Yeah.

02:09:39.000 Yeah.

02:09:39.000 And specifically, like I said, leucine, just to make sure that I was kick-starting that whole recovery process.

02:09:44.000 Right.

02:09:44.000 Because as soon as you got out of the water after six hours, there's always the temptation.

02:09:48.000 Just, I want to pass out.

02:09:49.000 I want to just go to bed.

02:09:50.000 And it's just like, no, you've got six hours to think before you're back in.

02:09:55.000 Yeah.

02:09:55.000 Now, what about your protein?

02:09:56.000 What were you getting it mostly from?

02:09:57.000 A lot of whey protein, just because of efficiency.

02:10:00.000 And also, as well, you've got to think in terms of the boat and stocking food, like perishable food.

02:10:08.000 So, as much as I love my barbecue ribs and everything like that, that wasn't going to happen on this small galley that we had on the boat.

02:10:16.000 Did you get any fresh food, eggs, anything along those lines?

02:10:19.000 We did, yeah.

02:10:20.000 Yeah, when we could stop in a harbour, you know, the team would go out.

02:10:22.000 I never touched land, but they could go and quickly provision from land and bring it back.

02:10:26.000 But ultimately, yeah, it was trying to find a way that was sustainable as possible, but within the parameters that we had, you know, and that was what was tricky.

02:10:38.000 What about your joints?

02:10:40.000 I would imagine repetitive stress of swimming would wreak havoc on your shoulders.

02:10:46.000 Yeah, and that's why this goes back to...

02:10:50.000 I suppose this goes back, and I was trying to rich roll about this actually, where once you developed that sort of horsepower program, that work capacity that I was talking about before from when I ran the marathon pulling a car, it was...

02:11:03.000 This is such a strange story, but I then, again, to raise money for the Teenage Cancer Trust, I climbed a rope.

02:11:10.000 I think it was a 10-meter rope, but I repeatedly climbed it until I climbed the height of Everest.

02:11:15.000 So it was 8,848 meters.

02:11:18.000 And it was that that actually taught me that movement efficiency plays such an important role in terms of endurance, because you could have the best muscular endurance in the world, cardio-spiritual endurance, but if you can imagine with a rope climb, If you're solely relying on your muscles,

02:11:35.000 your arms, like your bicep tendon is just, you know, and then you can be the fittest guy in the world, but within that kinetic chain, something's going to give, like the weakest part.

02:11:45.000 So you're right, from that, I had the work capacity from the marathon, then from the rope climb, I certainly understood movement efficiency, and so sort of transferring those skills over to swimming, I knew that You couldn't swim like a conventional swimmer.

02:12:00.000 Everything that I taught you, especially in waves and everything.

02:12:02.000 So I ended up developing quite a weird technique that looked really slow and cumbersome.

02:12:07.000 I almost looked asleep, but, you know, it was really rolling.

02:12:10.000 And that's why I asked you about swimming.

02:12:12.000 And even looking at Bert, again, to use him as a...

02:12:15.000 I know he did his triathlon.

02:12:17.000 But for everything that is taught about swimming, it's probably for someone who looks like, you know, Michael Phelps or, you know, an amazing specimen at swimming.

02:12:26.000 So...

02:12:27.000 You're saying Burt's fat?

02:12:30.000 Is that what you're saying?

02:12:31.000 Is that what you're saying?

02:12:32.000 I'm saying that Burt, for the record...

02:12:34.000 Jamie heard that?

02:12:35.000 Jamie, for the record...

02:12:36.000 I've heard it as a repeated...

02:12:37.000 Is it like a hashtag? 0.75

02:12:41.000 Hashtag Burt is fat?

02:12:42.000 For the record, on record, I think Burt is a specimen of a male.

02:12:48.000 What I was saying...

02:12:49.000 But you're getting...

02:12:51.000 Well, listen, we have photographic evidence.

02:12:54.000 Pull up that photo of him with his belly hanging out.

02:12:57.000 This is after he ran a marathon.

02:12:59.000 Is this pre or post Sober October?

02:13:01.000 Because he lost a lot now, though.

02:13:03.000 Yes, he lost 18 pounds during Sober October.

02:13:05.000 He's the only one that lost weight.

02:13:06.000 I gained weight.

02:13:07.000 But there was that video, because he was dancing in his bathroom recently, wasn't he?

02:13:10.000 Look at this photo.

02:13:12.000 Denim pants?

02:13:13.000 Look at that.

02:13:13.000 That's not even the worst one.

02:13:15.000 I love him.

02:13:16.000 Why is Burt Chrysler so fat?

02:13:19.000 That is a fine specimen of a man.

02:13:23.000 That's the one!

02:13:24.000 That's one.

02:13:25.000 Because he wore those for the weigh-in.

02:13:27.000 That's pretty sober.

02:13:28.000 He's got a bunch of those.

02:13:30.000 He's got more than one pair of denim.

02:13:32.000 That's what he wears.

02:13:33.000 I love him.

02:13:34.000 He's an animal.

02:13:36.000 The fact that he ran a marathon with that body.

02:13:38.000 It's amazing!

02:13:40.000 It's like running Le Mans in a Pinto.

02:13:43.000 He doesn't get enough credit.

02:13:44.000 I think that's amazing.

02:13:45.000 You're right.

02:13:45.000 He doesn't get enough credit.

02:13:46.000 Call him up.

02:13:48.000 But everything that...

02:13:51.000 That's not real.

02:13:52.000 It's not that big.

02:13:54.000 That's Photoshop or something.

02:13:56.000 But it would be the same with you, that if we were looking at your swimming technique, there'd be certain everything that you'd probably learned probably wouldn't be applicable to you because of how broad you are, how things that you could actually use.

02:14:06.000 So I was basically really engaging the lats, the traps, the larger muscles of the back.

02:14:10.000 Going back to the video with Brian Shaw, when he was just ripping that...

02:14:15.000 Yeah!

02:14:16.000 Yeah.

02:14:17.000 Pure ripping it out of the floor.

02:14:19.000 And I knew that I couldn't necessarily do that looking at delts, high catch, high elbows.

02:14:24.000 It's like, well, you're going to do high elbows for 157 days for 12 hours?

02:14:28.000 Right.

02:14:29.000 You know, no.

02:14:30.000 So everything that I'd learned, and certainly, you know, great friends of mine who are, you know, Liam Tank got 50-meter world record, backstroke, you know, Kerryon Payne, double world champion, 10K. These were amazing athletes.

02:14:41.000 I'm not one of them.

02:14:42.000 So you developed a more efficient, slower...

02:14:45.000 A style that you could continue for five months.

02:14:48.000 Yeah, and you just end up...

02:14:50.000 It's like moving meditation.

02:14:51.000 It just became like...

02:14:53.000 The limiting factor was just like...

02:14:55.000 I was just getting bored.

02:14:56.000 I wasn't actually breathing heavy.

02:14:57.000 What were you thinking of?

02:14:59.000 This is the thing.

02:15:00.000 I mean, you had to, at any given time, any tide, you had to think of something that was going to be more powerful than the thought of stopping or fatigue or sea ulcers, like getting deeper into your skin.

02:15:12.000 And so sometimes it was real easy because you were swimming with dolphins, minke whales.

02:15:17.000 I swam with a basking shark. 0.99

02:15:19.000 Did they come over to you going, what the fuck is this dude doing? 0.99

02:15:21.000 Yeah, like one point. 0.99

02:15:22.000 Really?

02:15:22.000 Yeah, there was a video of it ages ago with the Minky Whale.

02:15:26.000 I was swimming 12 hours across the Bristol Channel, so that's kind of England to Wales.

02:15:30.000 This was, without doubt, for all the hardship that I spoke about, I just want to say that there were some amazing moments.

02:15:36.000 This one particular moment, swimming across the Bristol Channel, and all of a sudden, Minky Whale, kind of about as big as this table, breaches right next to me.

02:15:44.000 I was like, whoa!

02:15:45.000 I turned to Matt, the captain, and I was like, Matt...

02:15:48.000 Am I safe?

02:15:49.000 Like, what's going on?

02:15:50.000 Like, shall I get out of the water?

02:15:51.000 And he said, no, no, no, no.

02:15:51.000 You're absolutely fine.

02:15:52.000 And I was like, okay, because it's a minky whale. 1.00

02:15:54.000 They're fine.

02:15:54.000 They're friendly.

02:15:55.000 I was like, okay, fair enough.

02:15:56.000 So I keep swimming.

02:15:57.000 And then for the next five miles, the minky whale was circling me. 0.68

02:16:00.000 It was breaching over the top.

02:16:01.000 It was coming under me and swimming like that.

02:16:04.000 Whoa.

02:16:04.000 And I turned to Mal.

02:16:05.000 I said, like, Mal, what's going on?

02:16:07.000 And he said, I've never seen this.

02:16:08.000 He's been sailing, like, 40 years.

02:16:10.000 He says, I've never seen this.

02:16:11.000 He said, but what I think is happening is I think it's a female. 1.00

02:16:15.000 She's trying to fuck you. 1.00

02:16:16.000 Well... 1.00

02:16:18.000 I said, it's not mating season, is it?

02:16:19.000 He was like, no, no, no, it's fine, it's fine.

02:16:21.000 He goes, what are things happening?

02:16:22.000 Saving you for later. 1.00

02:16:24.000 This motherfucker can go. 1.00

02:16:26.000 Look at him. 1.00

02:16:27.000 I've seen him for four months in this water. 1.00

02:16:29.000 I'm going to fuck him. 1.00

02:16:30.000 Mating season is probably right around the corner. 1.00

02:16:32.000 She's like, if he sticks around...

02:16:34.000 I was getting a move on.

02:16:38.000 So I was like, you know, that was a concern of mine.

02:16:41.000 Yeah, I would imagine.

02:16:42.000 Yeah, and it was.

02:16:43.000 But no, Matt said, no, no, no.

02:16:45.000 I think it's a female.

02:16:46.000 I think that she thinks that you're an injured seal.

02:16:49.000 And so for the next five miles, she basically guided me all the way to the shallower water.

02:16:54.000 Wow.

02:16:55.000 And as I got there, it was literally the depth of the water.

02:16:58.000 Matt said, yeah, yeah, much shallower water.

02:17:00.000 And we turned.

02:17:01.000 Whale breached one more time.

02:17:02.000 And then swam off as if to say, you know, you're safe now.

02:17:06.000 Wow.

02:17:07.000 Amazing.

02:17:08.000 That's incredible.

02:17:09.000 Amazing.

02:17:10.000 Yeah.

02:17:10.000 So for all of the hardship and everything that I've described, there were moments and sunsets and swimming with seals.

02:17:16.000 And it was amazing.

02:17:18.000 Whoa.

02:17:19.000 So that's the basking shark.

02:17:21.000 Is that what you encountered?

02:17:22.000 Yeah.

02:17:22.000 Yeah, so that was in the...

02:17:23.000 That's the actual one you encountered?

02:17:25.000 I don't know if...

02:17:26.000 I can't...

02:17:26.000 I mean, I was swimming behind him.

02:17:27.000 Seems like you could swim in that.

02:17:29.000 I was concerned about that one.

02:17:31.000 But no, so that's a basking shot.

02:17:33.000 So they're friendly.

02:17:34.000 But can you imagine seeing that?

02:17:35.000 Like, you're swimming through Scotland.

02:17:37.000 Mountains either side of you.

02:17:39.000 And so, to your point about asking what you think about...

02:17:43.000 It's very easy to swim when, you know, there's dolphins and everything, but there's times when you are lost in this moving meditation, but then you see something like that and you very quickly got to get your wits about you.

02:17:55.000 Because there were killer whales as well up, you know, coming from sort of Iceland around the top of Scotland.

02:18:00.000 So that was a concern.

02:18:02.000 Were they interested in you?

02:18:04.000 Thankfully, we didn't see any.

02:18:05.000 But they wouldn't attack you, right?

02:18:07.000 Well, so this is it.

02:18:08.000 So we were speaking with marine biologists at the time saying, look, like, what's the situation here?

02:18:13.000 And they said, well, you know, what's really interesting, they're so intelligent.

02:18:17.000 You know, killer whales are so, so intelligent.

02:18:20.000 And they've never been known, this was what they said to me, they've never been known in the wild to attack a human.

02:18:26.000 And I said, okay, fantastic.

02:18:28.000 And they said, however...

02:18:29.000 If they're going to attack a human, it's probably going to be you because no one's ever spent that amount of time in the water as well.

02:18:35.000 You know, so I was like, right.

02:18:37.000 They said, all you need to do.

02:18:38.000 I was like, all right, comforting.

02:18:41.000 So they just said, look, all you need to do is make sure that you don't look like a seal because they might mistake you for a seal, but they might bite you.

02:18:49.000 But then they will go, oh, well, they're that intelligent.

02:18:51.000 They'll be like, oh, that doesn't taste like a seal.

02:18:53.000 So they might, you know, so I was just trying my best not to look like a seal.

02:18:57.000 Well, I think when they've attacked people in the wild, though, or in captivity, it's always been trainers.

02:19:03.000 Yeah.

02:19:03.000 It's always been anger and frustration.

02:19:05.000 Yeah.

02:19:06.000 You know?

02:19:07.000 And that was my experience with the minky and everything. 0.98

02:19:10.000 People said, like, how do you swim at night?

02:19:12.000 Because certainly around west of Scotland, it was a depth of 200 meters.

02:19:16.000 So you just, you don't know what's under you.

02:19:19.000 Oh! 0.60

02:19:21.000 So there was that element, but I think having swum with the minky whale around the Bristol Channel, I was very aware that in the hierarchy of the sea, I was very low down the pecking order. 0.99

02:19:33.000 And if it's comforting in any strange way, I was like, look, if I was going to be eaten, I'll be eaten in the day just as much as I'll be eaten at night.

02:19:40.000 Right.

02:19:40.000 You know, it's just one of those things.

02:19:42.000 It's just darkness.

02:19:43.000 Yeah, yeah, just like you can't see the hand in front of your face.

02:19:46.000 Wow.

02:19:47.000 Like the Moray Firth, for instance, we were like 40 miles away from land and this kind of cutting across this huge bay across the top of Scotland and it was clouded over so there was not, you couldn't even see anything because there was no moonlight or no stars and everything.

02:20:03.000 It was you, in that complete sensory deprivation, you can hear everything.

02:20:09.000 And it's just, if you hear a noise, a ripple, you're like, I really hope that's not a killer whale.

02:20:14.000 But then you've then got six hours to contemplate.

02:20:18.000 So it's this, and again, like I said, Marcus Aurelius, meditation, stoic philosophy, that the conversations you have in your own head are just as powerful as other people.

02:20:26.000 And I certainly found that all the way around, that you just...

02:20:30.000 There was times when you were just like, what am I doing out here?

02:20:32.000 Like, seriously?

02:20:34.000 And that comes from, I think, you know, this idea of you have to be doing it for the right reasons.

02:20:41.000 And again, to bring it back to MMA, I suppose, it's really fascinated me.

02:20:45.000 You know, some fighters, you know, Liddell coming out of retirement with Ortiz and certainly, you know, You know, McGregor's made so much money.

02:20:52.000 You know, what would get him back out of retirement to come and fight?

02:20:55.000 Mayweather!

02:20:56.000 And, you know, again, I've been out at sea, so I didn't quite understand what was going on there with his kind of going over towards Japan and fighting.

02:21:03.000 It's like, what does he need?

02:21:04.000 He's got so much money.

02:21:06.000 Oh, Mayweather?

02:21:06.000 Yeah.

02:21:07.000 Mayweather spends money.

02:21:09.000 He spends money like crazy.

02:21:10.000 He was going to fight tension.

02:21:14.000 Tension, how do you pronounce his last name correctly?

02:21:16.000 Nasukawa?

02:21:17.000 No, so I've been out at sea, so I didn't really see what was going on here.

02:21:19.000 Yeah, let me see if you find that on my Instagram. 1.00

02:21:22.000 He's out of his fucking mind. 0.99

02:21:24.000 Would that have been a bad idea? 1.00

02:21:25.000 Terrible! 0.82

02:21:26.000 He would have got head kicked into a coma.

02:21:28.000 But you kind of asked, what are the reasons? 0.96

02:21:31.000 I think he spends a shit ton of money.

02:21:35.000 You think? 0.56

02:21:35.000 They're trying to get it back on track. 0.56

02:21:38.000 He said Floyd had been duped into agreeing to the contest.

02:21:41.000 Look, they will dupe him.

02:21:43.000 By the way, they are very different. 0.99

02:21:45.000 If this happens, believe you me, he's going to get kicked in the head. 0.98

02:21:51.000 They might say, no, no kicky, no kicky. 1.00

02:21:55.000 Listen, man, you get in the ring with tension, he's going to try to roundhouse kick you into another fucking dimension. 0.98

02:22:02.000 So it was a special bout, so there was going to be no kicking? 0.98

02:22:05.000 I don't know if they agreed to the rules.

02:22:08.000 Wow, okay.

02:22:10.000 But Tenshin Nasuka was, I think he's 20?

02:22:14.000 I think he's 20 years old.

02:22:15.000 He's a really fantastic talent.

02:22:19.000 Wow.

02:22:20.000 Yeah, I mean, he really is.

02:22:22.000 But it fascinates me.

02:22:23.000 So I'm catching up on all this, like I said.

02:22:25.000 So I've missed all of this for 157 days.

02:22:27.000 Like I said, I even missed the McGregor and Kapiba fight and stuff.

02:22:30.000 Go to Striking Breakdowns on Instagram.

02:22:33.000 Lawrence Kenshin, he's done a bunch of breakdowns, as has Brandon Dorman's done a bunch of breakdowns, too, on Tension.

02:22:41.000 But Lawrence Kenshin has this really fascinating video of him fighting this world Muay Thai champion, and he wheel kicks him in the head.

02:22:51.000 It was more like a jump, spinning back kick to the chin, but the way he did it, It was like a really weird angle and you could see him setting it up.

02:22:59.000 He's really creative.

02:23:00.000 And he just found a weird opening for this guy and just kicked this guy into oblivion. 0.99

02:23:08.000 He's nasty. 0.99

02:23:10.000 And he's really sneaky. 0.99

02:23:11.000 Like the kind of techniques that he lands.

02:23:13.000 He's very clever with his reads and his understanding of distance and what's possible.

02:23:19.000 Do you see it?

02:23:19.000 Striking breakdowns on Instagram?

02:23:21.000 It might not be the name of it.

02:23:23.000 Huh?

02:23:25.000 But yeah, it's with this.

02:23:27.000 You know, how much money does he need?

02:23:29.000 He can't spend that much.

02:23:31.000 That's a good question.

02:23:32.000 I think he can.

02:23:35.000 And this is what I love.

02:23:36.000 Again, I'm only just catching up on this.

02:23:38.000 Like I said, I should point out, I have been at sea for 157 days.

02:23:41.000 But with everything that happened...

02:23:43.000 Yeah, striking breakdowns.

02:23:44.000 I just got to it.

02:23:46.000 Striking breakdowns.

02:23:51.000 That's when I typed it, man.

02:23:54.000 It's not coming up?

02:23:55.000 No.

02:23:56.000 Maybe there's something wrong with Instagram.

02:24:02.000 I don't know.

02:24:04.000 I got it right here.

02:24:05.000 Here, I'll send you the link so we can see.

02:24:10.000 Yeah, here we go.

02:24:11.000 I'll send you this.

02:24:16.000 Copy link.

02:24:18.000 Sorry, folks.

02:24:20.000 But this is a...

02:24:21.000 I don't know how much they were offering him.

02:24:24.000 So I don't know how much...

02:24:26.000 Okay, I just sent it to you.

02:24:28.000 I don't know.

02:24:29.000 I mean, it has to be millions of dollars.

02:24:31.000 That's the only way he'd be willing to do it.

02:24:33.000 But if they offer...

02:24:34.000 Also, tension is quite a bit smaller.

02:24:37.000 I think he weighs 130 and Floyd walks around.

02:24:41.000 I mean, he's fought at 154, 150-ish.

02:24:44.000 And McGregor was at 55. This kid is fucking nasty, man. 1.00

02:24:50.000 But he does a lot of wild shit. 1.00

02:24:53.000 Like, there's a video here where you see him fight this Muay Thai guy, and he hits him with this crazy... 0.99

02:25:01.000 That's when he was a little kid.

02:25:03.000 Oh. 1.00

02:25:03.000 Like, see how he does shit like that? 1.00

02:25:05.000 Like, sneaky shit. 1.00

02:25:06.000 Under the armpit. 1.00

02:25:06.000 Like, look at this. 1.00

02:25:07.000 Sip, sip.

02:25:08.000 And then...

02:25:09.000 He was young there.

02:25:10.000 Watch this.

02:25:10.000 Look at this.

02:25:11.000 Crank.

02:25:12.000 Oh.

02:25:12.000 This is the one with the world Muay Thai champion.

02:25:15.000 Boom! 0.99

02:25:17.000 Puts that dude asleep.

02:25:18.000 But the way he set it up, that's a weird angle for that kick.

02:25:22.000 It's very tight.

02:25:23.000 Yeah, very tight.

02:25:25.000 Real close.

02:25:25.000 And it wasn't a round, it was straight.

02:25:27.000 So it was basically like a jump-spinning back kick to the chin.

02:25:32.000 Which is hard to generate force from that?

02:25:34.000 Oh, no.

02:25:34.000 No, no, no, no.

02:25:35.000 It's tremendous power.

02:25:36.000 Really?

02:25:37.000 Yeah, no, as long as he can get extension on his legs.

02:25:40.000 It's just he had to jump and tuck and spin.

02:25:43.000 But the fact that he chose that angle, it's like he realized that the guy was going to see things that were coming around.

02:25:50.000 So instead of coming around, he had it come up and through the middle, which made it much sneakier.

02:25:58.000 But what we're describing now is another intangible, right?

02:26:02.000 Yeah.

02:26:02.000 Creativity.

02:26:03.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:26:04.000 I mean, and what...

02:26:05.000 I found it so interesting when, you know, McGregor and Diaz...

02:26:09.000 And I was just...

02:26:11.000 I'm a huge fan of Ido Portal, so, you know, all the movement that he was doing.

02:26:14.000 But I was just like, look...

02:26:15.000 And I think it was...

02:26:16.000 I think McGregor was on...

02:26:18.000 I want to say Kimmel, but I don't think it was.

02:26:20.000 He was on a chat show, and he was talking about that spinning capoeira crescent kick, and he actually did it.

02:26:25.000 He performed it, and I was like, look, if he lands that, you know, the same way with Aldo, he'd be like, that is it.

02:26:31.000 Movement is it.

02:26:33.000 You know, you can forget cardiorespiratory endurance, strength, everything that we talked about there, the metric saying, you know, heavyweight, you've got to be 2-4-5, you know, whatever the matter.

02:26:41.000 No, it's just movement.

02:26:42.000 He would have reinvented the game.

02:26:44.000 And he...

02:26:46.000 Karim is wrong.

02:26:46.000 I think with Diaz, he did try it, didn't he?

02:26:48.000 And it missed, I think.

02:26:49.000 I believe he did.

02:26:51.000 He threw it.

02:26:52.000 I think he threw it.

02:26:53.000 The thing, you know, that technique is a legit technique, obviously.

02:26:57.000 Wheel kicks most certainly work.

02:26:59.000 Yeah.

02:27:00.000 But...

02:27:01.000 It's not a high percentage technique.

02:27:03.000 There's only been a few wheel kick knockouts in the UFC. The first one was Edson Barboza over Terry Edom.

02:27:10.000 That was number one.

02:27:11.000 There's been a few since then.

02:27:13.000 Vitor Belfort shocked Luke Rockhold with a wheel kick.

02:27:16.000 It's happened before.

02:27:18.000 But it's just not a high percentage kick and it's usually a kick that's You know, it comes out of nowhere.

02:27:23.000 You don't expect it.

02:27:25.000 Right.

02:27:25.000 But can you tell when someone has it and doesn't?

02:27:28.000 Because it's an intangible.

02:27:30.000 So if you said, if at the start of the, you know, Barbosa and Etten fight, you said, you know, knock out by timing or creativity, you'd say like, what?

02:27:39.000 What would you mean?

02:27:40.000 You know, but if you could foresee that the same way that you could quantify that sort of mental fortitude, I think you start opening the door in sports performance into something that's just this whole other realm that you don't talk about weight as a metric strength, cardiorespiratory endurance,

02:27:56.000 you can start talking.

02:27:57.000 Is that hard to see?

02:27:59.000 Yeah, with creativity, especially in regards to striking technique, yeah, that's a crazy intangible, because you're essentially deciding when to move and what to do, right?

02:28:10.000 Like, you can throw a jab, you can throw a front kick, you can throw a roundhouse kick, you can throw a wheel kick.

02:28:15.000 You can throw a turning side kick. 0.98

02:28:16.000 You can throw an axe kick if you're crazy.

02:28:18.000 There's a lot of different things you can do. 0.83

02:28:20.000 So what do you decide to do and why do you decide to do it?

02:28:23.000 Is it because you have a style?

02:28:25.000 Some people's style is like Connor likes to hop in and out and he throws a little front leg side kick.

02:28:30.000 He throws like that for movement.

02:28:31.000 He likes to keep his arms wide.

02:28:33.000 He likes to stand in a sideways stance.

02:28:34.000 Some guys like to...

02:28:44.000 Yeah.

02:28:54.000 That's what he does.

02:28:55.000 So it's all, what do you decide to do, and why do you decide to do it, and when do you decide to do it?

02:29:01.000 When do you engage?

02:29:02.000 You're throwing some feints.

02:29:04.000 You don't want to be the guy who makes it obvious that you're moving forward, because then, like Connor clipped Aldo, you get rocked.

02:29:11.000 You know, it's a crazy, crazy sport.

02:29:14.000 But if you enter into that realm and even start applying more, so again, we talked about that sort of strength deficit as well, that if you get someone, you know, trying to, like John Jones, who's going to move up to heavyweight, is it going to be, will it benefit him when he was strength training, for instance?

02:29:30.000 I can't remember his deadlift, but it was pretty Pretty impressive.

02:29:32.000 I think it was 600 pounds.

02:29:34.000 Big deadlift, yeah.

02:29:34.000 So when you look at that strength deficit, John Jones, very lean, was using neuromuscularly.

02:29:39.000 He was recruiting voluntarily all of those muscle fibres.

02:29:42.000 It was unbelievable.

02:29:42.000 But if he moves up to hebrew, would any more muscle mass be functional?

02:29:48.000 That's a good question.

02:29:49.000 When should he do that?

02:29:51.000 That's another good question because you're beating your body up to do that.

02:29:54.000 And is that conducive with high aerobic capacity training, like multiple rounds of sparring and bag work and pad work?

02:30:05.000 And all the lower back muscles that are getting stressed, and does that lead to potential injuries?

02:30:11.000 Is he potentially damaging his discs, his knees?

02:30:15.000 Like, there's a lot of things to be considered, and when should you do that?

02:30:18.000 A lot of people think you should do that when you're nowhere near a camp.

02:30:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:30:22.000 Like, you win a fight, and then you decide to build up in between camps.

02:30:27.000 Yeah, and I think that's so awful.

02:30:28.000 Even Darren Till, you know, who's a huge, huge, you know.

02:30:32.000 Exactly, but he's moving to middleweight now.

02:30:34.000 Yes.

02:30:35.000 He missed weight in his title shot against Tyron Woodley.

02:30:39.000 And then he got rocked and put away.

02:30:41.000 So if you're moving up, how do you do it?

02:30:43.000 Do you do it intelligently?

02:30:45.000 But then there are guys who are just...

02:30:48.000 They say training is the realization of one's genetic potential.

02:30:52.000 And when you get someone like Rumble Johnson, it's just...

02:30:56.000 No, he made weight.

02:30:59.000 I'm sorry.

02:31:00.000 He made weight against Tyron Woodley.

02:31:01.000 Didn't he?

02:31:03.000 Yes, he made weight against Woodley.

02:31:05.000 He didn't make weight against Donald Cerrone.

02:31:08.000 That's what it was.

02:31:09.000 He came in very heavy against Donald Cerrone. 1.00

02:31:11.000 He's a big motherfucker, is what he is. 1.00

02:31:13.000 You know, he's so big for welterweight. 1.00

02:31:16.000 I think he'll be way better off at 185 pounds, but I think many of them will.

02:31:20.000 I think there's a point of diminishing returns where they're significantly depleting themselves to make that weight, and then when they don't have to do that, they have more energy.

02:31:28.000 We've seen that time and time again.

02:31:30.000 Exactly, but when you...

02:31:31.000 Did Rumble Johnson, he fought at welterweight, right?

02:31:33.000 Yes, he's so big.

02:31:35.000 And then, you know, was it Noguera?

02:31:40.000 Noguera, yeah. 0.93

02:31:41.000 He could fight heavyweight.

02:31:43.000 He did fight heavyweight successfully in the PFL. He broke Andrei Orlovsky's jaw.

02:31:51.000 He fucked Andrei Orlovsky up as a heavyweight. 0.99

02:31:53.000 Right. 0.98

02:31:53.000 And that's what always fascinates me, is that... 0.98

02:31:58.000 God-given kind of...

02:32:00.000 Power.

02:32:00.000 Yeah.

02:32:01.000 For all of the training, it seems, you know, with someone like Johnson...

02:32:06.000 Because he said, am I right in thinking, he said he's going to come back for heavyweight if DC and Jones go up.

02:32:12.000 He's thought about it.

02:32:13.000 You know, I think he's in the weed game right now.

02:32:16.000 He's making some money selling weed.

02:32:17.000 Right.

02:32:18.000 Which is legal now in a lot of places.

02:32:20.000 So he's doing that.

02:32:22.000 What?

02:32:22.000 Jesus Christ!

02:32:24.000 Look at the size of him now!

02:32:26.000 But he fought Hardy, right?

02:32:27.000 Yes.

02:32:28.000 He fought Hardy and he took him down, which was interesting.

02:32:31.000 He didn't want to stand with Dan.

02:32:33.000 Wow.

02:32:34.000 Back in the day, it was a different thing. 0.99

02:32:35.000 I mean, they kind of made an agreement to stand with each other, and then he was like, psh, bitch, and he took him down, and he won by decision. 0.98

02:32:41.000 But that was a different Rumble Johnson. 0.99

02:32:43.000 I think the Rumble Johnson at 170, he had no fucking energy. 0.99

02:32:47.000 Right. 0.99

02:32:47.000 He was on death's door. 0.99

02:32:48.000 He was just always exhausted.

02:32:50.000 He would lose fights.

02:32:51.000 He got choked out by Josh Koscheck.

02:32:53.000 He was just too tired.

02:32:54.000 Yeah.

02:32:55.000 And I think weight cutting as well, obviously, you know, there's been certain changes now.

02:32:59.000 But even now, and I love Max Holloway, but I think it was UFC Embedded where they flew his favorite cupcakes over from Hawaii.

02:33:08.000 And he was like, yeah, I love cupcakes, I've made weight.

02:33:10.000 And then he was just, you know, nailing cupcakes.

02:33:13.000 Not smart.

02:33:13.000 No, and I think there's just that element now that I think...

02:33:18.000 As much as MMA has evolved, and again, this is someone who doesn't understand the technical aspects, but as someone who loves sports history, and I've watched it, and I'm just like, that is amazing, but it's still got so far to go.

02:33:32.000 Again, we were talking earlier about football or soccer, as known here back in England, and the warming up of the brandy in the changing rooms.

02:33:41.000 I think even now, it's crazy when you have someone so gifted like that, but they are...

02:33:47.000 You know, rehydrating and re-carb loading on cupcakes.

02:33:51.000 It's like, yeah, there are better.

02:33:54.000 There's way better ways.

02:33:55.000 You've cut weight.

02:33:56.000 Your body is basically in fight or flight.

02:33:59.000 You know, you've subjected it to a form of microtrauma.

02:34:02.000 You know, body's kind of sitting there going, whoa, what is going on?

02:34:05.000 And then you're going to get, here you go, here's loads of cupcakes.

02:34:09.000 You made weight.

02:34:10.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:34:11.000 Terrible.

02:34:11.000 So I find that really interesting that you see some of the guys who, you know, was it Gleason Tabao, wasn't it?

02:34:17.000 Who just, like, it was...

02:34:19.000 So big.

02:34:20.000 It was, he got in, it was like he sent, he'd weigh in, and then it would be like he sent his older brother in, like, they were unrecognisable.

02:34:27.000 Yeah.

02:34:28.000 And I think it's really interesting that that physiological puppetry, if you know how to do it intelligently, it can be so powerful, but you do it for the wrong reasons.

02:34:37.000 But even if you know how to do it intelligently, there's still a demand that it places on your organs.

02:34:43.000 There's consequences.

02:34:44.000 You're right.

02:34:45.000 And over time, your body resists it.

02:34:47.000 And this was the thought behind Max Holloway's last weight-cutting fail, is that when he was trying to cut down on short notice to fight Khabib Nurmagomedov, he was cutting down only to 155 and he couldn't make it.

02:35:00.000 Right.

02:35:00.000 And they pulled him out of that, and then he started suffering some significant problems when he was getting ready for Brian Ortega.

02:35:07.000 Right. 1.00

02:35:08.000 And they think that when he was getting ready for Ortega, what was going on was his body was reacting to the fact that he was trying to cut weight again, and it was like, fuck you. 1.00

02:35:17.000 We just got through this, man. 1.00

02:35:19.000 Right.

02:35:19.000 And he was really messed up because of it.

02:35:22.000 Right.

02:35:23.000 And he had to go through a battery of tests before they approved him to fight again.

02:35:27.000 So his body had to fully, fully recover months off and then get back to training and now he's okay again.

02:35:33.000 But I think it's changing.

02:35:35.000 Frankie Edgar was almost the first.

02:35:38.000 He wouldn't even cut weight.

02:35:39.000 He wouldn't cut any weight.

02:35:40.000 Yeah, that was his weight.

02:35:42.000 Well, this is what they say.

02:35:43.000 Frankie, although was the 155-pound champion, and now competes at 145 pounds, really, he should be fighting at 135. And 135 is where he could be at his best.

02:35:56.000 Wow.

02:35:56.000 That's what everybody says.

02:35:57.000 Wow. 0.99

02:35:58.000 Especially people that know weight cutting, and they look at what he walks around at, and they're like, look, 20 pounds from 55 ain't shit. 0.99

02:36:05.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.98

02:36:05.000 Those guys do it all the time. 0.98

02:36:07.000 Especially, you get a guy like a George Lockhart who really knows how to do it and put that weight back on you and how to do it correctly, scientifically.

02:36:16.000 But we're seeing that now across all sports, I think, this evolution that we're understanding.

02:36:22.000 Carlin Iles is one of my favorites.

02:36:24.000 So he was a good American sprinter.

02:36:26.000 He was, I believe, top 50. He was amazing, but wasn't quite making it.

02:36:32.000 He's not a Usain Bolt.

02:36:33.000 He's not a Justin Gatlin.

02:36:34.000 So they just said, hey, Carlin, here's a rugby ball.

02:36:38.000 And again, Jamie, it'll be on YouTube some ways, like, you know, widely regarded as the fastest rugby player.

02:36:43.000 They just handed him, you know, a ball.

02:36:45.000 And now, there's one of my favourite clips, because he, it was one of his first games or something, and I think it was an Australian commentator, and he just ran, like, rings around everybody.

02:36:56.000 Like, scored a try, and then the commentator was like, oh my god, he goes, I cannot believe this.

02:37:00.000 Can you believe?

02:37:02.000 Here we go, look.

02:37:03.000 Here we go.

02:37:03.000 Here's the ball.

02:37:04.000 Oh my god, look at him go!

02:37:06.000 Good boy!

02:37:07.000 That is insane!

02:37:08.000 Look at this, this is rugby 7. Look how fast he is!

02:37:11.000 Oh my god, they're all quitting. 1.00

02:37:13.000 They're like, fuck this. 1.00

02:37:13.000 Look at him! 1.00

02:37:14.000 Look at the guy chasing gave up!

02:37:16.000 He passed that guy.

02:37:16.000 There's more, this is, I love Connals.

02:37:19.000 And he ran past him.

02:37:20.000 Like the guy was ahead of him.

02:37:22.000 But there's no, I'm not even going to sidestep you because I don't, it's like he doesn't even respect their speed.

02:37:28.000 Look how much faster he is than those guys.

02:37:31.000 That's hilarious.

02:37:32.000 Well, that's in many ways, right?

02:37:35.000 Isn't it like that other guy who broke the world record by rowing?

02:37:39.000 He had been doing something else and gotten so much power and energy in his body that he could translate that to rowing.

02:37:47.000 We're seeing that now.

02:37:48.000 And that was what was amazing there.

02:37:50.000 With Carl and I, like I said, he scored a try.

02:37:52.000 And then the commentator, there was two commentators talking.

02:37:54.000 They said, I cannot believe he's only been playing, you know, a number of months.

02:37:57.000 And they were like, yeah, no, that's amazing.

02:37:59.000 And then the other commentator said, no, no, no, I can believe it.

02:38:02.000 He's just tried to give the referee the ball.

02:38:04.000 And he didn't know what to do.

02:38:05.000 He'd scored a try.

02:38:07.000 And he was walking around and he gave it to him.

02:38:08.000 And the referee went, no, no, no, you now kick it. 0.99

02:38:10.000 You know, and it was amazing.

02:38:12.000 They didn't even bother teaching him.

02:38:14.000 They're like, just listen, man, just run.

02:38:16.000 But what do I do when I get to the end?

02:38:17.000 Just get to the end, and then we'll talk.

02:38:19.000 I'll tell you what to do.

02:38:20.000 It'll take about three minutes.

02:38:22.000 They do.

02:38:23.000 They do. 1.00

02:38:24.000 Just fucking run, baby! 1.00

02:38:26.000 Woo! 1.00

02:38:27.000 You're seeing it.

02:38:28.000 That's incredible.

02:38:28.000 I think you spoke about this not too long ago, but I think you might have mentioned LeBron James saying if someone like that was taught MMA... Oh my God.

02:38:35.000 Everybody would be dead.

02:38:36.000 What would happen?

02:38:37.000 And I think we're seeing that now, that sports, now there's more money in MMA and it's evolved to what it is now.

02:38:44.000 It's amazing that if you get some unbelievable phenom as a kid, you go into MMA. Yeah, but it's not as popular as basketball, and it doesn't pay as much money as LeBron James makes.

02:38:56.000 LeBron James, what does he make, like $100 million a year?

02:38:58.000 Something crazy?

02:38:59.000 Just from basketball, it's like $35 million or so.

02:39:02.000 $35 million just from basketball, and then sponsorships.

02:39:06.000 Unless you're Conor McGregor or Floyd Mayweather, you're not going to make that much money from fighting.

02:39:11.000 They can make that much money from fighting, but they're so rare.

02:39:14.000 And then Conor could only make that much money from fighting if he boxed Floyd.

02:39:18.000 Even though the fight with Khabib was the number one MMA pay-per-view of all time, the number two pay-per-view in the history of pay-per-views, just behind Floyd Mayweather versus...

02:39:35.000 I think?

02:39:49.000 For Floyd Mayweather vs.

02:39:51.000 Khabib Nurmagomedov.

02:39:52.000 I think it was number two of all time.

02:39:54.000 Just behind the Floyd Mayweather-Manny Pacquiao fight.

02:39:57.000 Which is just incredible.

02:39:58.000 So they must have made a shit ton of money from that.

02:40:02.000 But how many times can Conor do that?

02:40:04.000 I mean, look, the Irish support him.

02:40:07.000 But people thought he had a chance of winning that fight.

02:40:10.000 And then once he gets smashed like that...

02:40:13.000 I don't think they're going to think he has a chance of winning again unless he does something significant.

02:40:18.000 Right, right.

02:40:19.000 Yeah.

02:40:19.000 He has to beat somebody.

02:40:20.000 He has to fight like Kevin Lee and fuck him up. 1.00

02:40:24.000 If he fought Kevin Lee or Tony Ferguson and fucked him up and then said, look, I had two years off. 0.99

02:40:30.000 I wasn't ready for Khabib, but I'm ready now. 1.00

02:40:32.000 Fuck the Mayweathers. 1.00

02:40:33.000 And he says something like that. 1.00

02:40:35.000 He's got to have some success, though.

02:40:38.000 Floyd Conner was 6.7 million.

02:40:41.000 Floyd Manny was 4.4 million.

02:40:44.000 And then it would have been right around the next one, which would have been Oscar and Floyd, which is 2.4.

02:40:48.000 So yeah, it's like 2.5, 2.4.

02:40:50.000 So it would have been right around number two.

02:40:51.000 So it was number three then?

02:40:52.000 Number three overall, number one MMA. Number one MMA, but number three overall.

02:40:56.000 It could be tied.

02:40:57.000 So what were the boxing numbers again?

02:40:59.000 What was it?

02:41:00.000 6.7 for the Floyd Conner, 4.4 for Floyd Manny.

02:41:04.000 That is so crazy.

02:41:05.000 6.7 for Floyd Conner.

02:41:07.000 Wow, I had my numbers off big time.

02:41:09.000 But with that amount of money, it's so interesting that...

02:41:16.000 You know, with that thrown around, this kind of extrinsic motivation, money, media, fame, versus intrinsic motivation.

02:41:23.000 And in a strange way with the swim, you know, when we got around John O'Groats at the top, everyone was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you just set the Land's End to John O'Groats record.

02:41:32.000 Well done.

02:41:33.000 And there was cameras and it was amazing.

02:41:35.000 And then I was just swimming across the Moray Firth, getting hit by jellyfish in, you know, six degree waters.

02:41:39.000 It was horrible.

02:41:40.000 And I think right now as well, and Khabib fascinates me, That, you know, and I don't know the logistics.

02:41:48.000 Again, you know, I've been out at sea, so I'm still trying to catch up.

02:41:50.000 But he was offered so much money for the rematch.

02:41:53.000 But I believe he turned it down.

02:41:55.000 Khabib?

02:41:56.000 No.

02:41:56.000 Right.

02:41:57.000 There was talk of a rematch, but the UFC did not offer him a financial sum.

02:42:03.000 That was rumors.

02:42:05.000 They hadn't even talked.

02:42:06.000 They were trying to figure out what to do next.

02:42:08.000 And in fact, the UFC said that most likely next was Tony Ferguson.

02:42:11.000 Okay, okay.

02:42:12.000 So that's the current, the last time they talked about someone fighting for the title again.

02:42:18.000 But it was a while ago now, again, it might have been UFC Embedded, when, and I think it was when Khabib, years ago now, met George St. Pierre.

02:42:25.000 And Khabib, you know, said, oh, lovely to meet you.

02:42:28.000 And then Khabib was smiling and he said, oh...

02:42:31.000 You know, my dad has always said that he'd love to see me fight, you know, George St. Pierre.

02:42:34.000 And for me, that was really interesting because Khabib's motivation seems to be intrinsic and putting his skills against the best people in the world.

02:42:43.000 You could offer him all the money in the world, but he just wants to do something.

02:42:46.000 And when he talks about his dad, his family, it's a different beast.

02:42:50.000 And that's what I find really interesting.

02:42:53.000 But I'm not saying different as in better, worse, good or bad, because ultimately Mayweather's never lost.

02:42:59.000 But when you see someone like Mayweather, you think, is he just extrinsically motivated when he's saying, you know, if it doesn't make money, it doesn't make sense?

02:43:06.000 You kind of look at him going, well, you're extrinsically motivated, arguably, and I don't know, I've never met the guy and stuff, but you're extrinsically motivated, but you've never lost.

02:43:15.000 So which one's more powerful?

02:43:17.000 I don't think he's completely extrinsically motivated.

02:43:20.000 I think that's a lot of it as an act.

02:43:22.000 Do you think?

02:43:23.000 Yeah, he's too good.

02:43:24.000 He's too good.

02:43:26.000 There has to be some deep emotional connection to his work.

02:43:31.000 There's got to be some connection to his legacy, what he's been able to do, the way he's been able to retire undefeated as a professional boxer, which is almost unheard of.

02:43:40.000 Right, because I want to believe that, and I hope that's true, because you're almost taught, like, intrinsic motivation.

02:43:46.000 Do it for the love, you know, and sort of, you know, the sweet science.

02:43:49.000 I want to believe that Mayweather's there and he's studying, you know, but maybe he doesn't want you to see that side.

02:43:54.000 Oh, no, he's too good.

02:43:57.000 He's too good.

02:43:58.000 He's got to have a love of boxing.

02:44:00.000 There's no way.

02:44:01.000 He's too good.

02:44:02.000 The way he's artistically taking guys apart, like, you go to the Canelo Alvarez fight, the way he was, like, Slipping away from Canelo's big shots and then popping him with the jabs. 0.99

02:44:12.000 Like, bitch! 1.00

02:44:13.000 Not today! 1.00

02:44:14.000 Not today!

02:44:15.000 You ain't good enough for this! 0.79

02:44:17.000 And it was intelligent in his approach to that fight, too, because he made Canelo drain himself to get down to 150 pounds.

02:44:24.000 Right, right.

02:44:24.000 That was a different thing, because he forced Canelo to cut a lot of weight to get down to his weight class.

02:44:31.000 But Floyd, really, realistically, is a 147-pound fighter.

02:44:34.000 I mean, he's only fighting in these higher weight classes because the money's there.

02:44:37.000 Right. 1.00

02:44:38.000 He's a fucking wizard, man. 1.00

02:44:39.000 He's a wizard. 1.00

02:44:40.000 But that's what I mean about that.

02:44:41.000 That all starts.

02:44:42.000 You know, he's playing with everybody's head.

02:44:45.000 You talk about, like, psychological warfare, you know, the art of war and everything like that.

02:44:49.000 And he's doing it on a mass scale like we've probably never experienced before.

02:44:53.000 Well, what was fascinating was Connor was doing it to him.

02:44:56.000 He was screaming in his face with a hard-on, by the way, at the weigh-ins.

02:44:59.000 I don't know how he generated a hard-on. 1.00

02:45:02.000 But, you know, he must have played with his dick before he got out there or took some Viagra or something. 0.99

02:45:07.000 I really think that might have been part of the psychological motivation. 1.00

02:45:10.000 Just screaming in his face, I'm gonna fucking kill you, you little puke, you piece of shit. 1.00

02:45:15.000 And Floyd was just like this, just dead face, staring at him, didn't scream back, dead face, stayed calm, was like, tomorrow I'm gonna fuck you up. 1.00

02:45:25.000 And there ain't a goddamn thing in the world that's going to change there. 0.99

02:45:28.000 Right, right. 0.98

02:45:28.000 Well, Conor was like the first guy that Floyd ever fought that could fuck him up in a real fight, though. 0.98

02:45:34.000 Right. 0.84

02:45:34.000 There was a different element of danger there because there was a greed upon rule set where Conor wasn't going to kick, wasn't going to take him down, wasn't going to strangle him. 0.84

02:45:42.000 Mm-hmm.

02:45:43.000 So because of that, Floyd knew he could win.

02:45:46.000 Mm-hmm.

02:45:46.000 But he also knew, without a doubt, that if they were just going to fight fight...

02:45:52.000 Mm-hmm. 0.99

02:45:52.000 If there was no gloves, if they just put the gloves aside and just had a street fight, Conor would fucking kill him. 0.99

02:45:58.000 I mean, there's not a question on my mind. 0.99

02:46:02.000 There's not a doubt to be had.

02:46:06.000 Conor would kick him from a distance. 0.97

02:46:08.000 He would probe him with front kicks, kick his legs. 0.98

02:46:12.000 Floyd would start to limp, Conor would step in, tie him up, elbow him, take him down, smash his face into a bloody pulp, do whatever he wanted to him. 0.97

02:46:21.000 Strangle him, rip his knees apart with leg locks, do whatever he wanted to him.

02:46:25.000 If they were gonna just fight fight. 0.61

02:46:28.000 You know, and he said that to him. 1.00

02:46:29.000 He's like, if this was a fight, I'd fucking kill you. 0.99

02:46:32.000 He just looked right at him and he's saying that to him. 1.00

02:46:34.000 Floyd had to just eat it.

02:46:36.000 But it didn't matter because it wasn't a fight.

02:46:38.000 It was a boxing match and he didn't have a chance.

02:46:40.000 But do you think that worked with Aldo, for instance?

02:46:42.000 Because, and again, this is me kind of just talking more on the mental warfare side and not really understanding the technical aspect.

02:46:49.000 But that world tour was fascinating to watch.

02:46:53.000 Yes.

02:46:53.000 And the whole way around, and again, this is me not understanding all that much about MMA, but being fascinated with the mental aspect.

02:47:01.000 And again, Georges St-Pierre, when he fought Nick Diaz, and they were saying, you know, he's going to talk to you.

02:47:06.000 He's going to talk to you.

02:47:07.000 He's going to walk you down.

02:47:08.000 Don't be affected.

02:47:09.000 And Georges St-Pierre was like, of course, yeah, I won't be.

02:47:11.000 And then he was talking so much that Georges St-Pierre even said it just invoked, again, actually, going back to what we were talking about, you know, our bodies, as much as we like to think about it as black and white, the consequences.

02:47:24.000 I'm not saying that the Diaz brothers necessarily think like that, but they're like, I'm going to talk to you and I'm going to mess with your biomechanics.

02:47:31.000 The chemical reactions within your body, neurotransmitters making you... 0.99

02:47:36.000 Emotions, mindfuck you. 1.00

02:47:38.000 Yes! 1.00

02:47:39.000 They're doing it for sure. 0.99

02:47:40.000 They're not stupid. 1.00

02:47:41.000 When Nick's doing that to you, he's like, what, bitch? 1.00

02:47:43.000 What you gonna do, bitch? 1.00

02:47:44.000 He's fucking with your head, man. 1.00

02:47:46.000 I remember the first time he did that to Robbie Lawler. 1.00

02:47:49.000 Robbie was like 20, 21 years old, and Nick was young, too, and they moved into the cage, and they closed it, and Nick Diaz just started saying, Stockton, motherfucker! 0.99

02:47:59.000 And Robbie Lawler was like, what? 0.99

02:48:01.000 He's like standing in front of him.

02:48:02.000 That's against Carlos Condit.

02:48:04.000 He drops his...

02:48:05.000 The best one was against Anderson Silva.

02:48:07.000 He fell to the ground and pretended he was sleeping.

02:48:10.000 He put his hands together like he was taking a nap.

02:48:12.000 He laid down and I couldn't stop laughing. 1.00

02:48:15.000 I was like, this motherfucker is so crazy. 1.00

02:48:18.000 He just, like, right there. 1.00

02:48:19.000 Dropped down and started relaxing.

02:48:21.000 Go to the back.

02:48:23.000 Go back.

02:48:24.000 That one's better.

02:48:25.000 Yeah.

02:48:25.000 That one you see him.

02:48:26.000 Lay down.

02:48:28.000 Leaned on his head.

02:48:29.000 Like, I'm just going to take a nap here. 1.00

02:48:31.000 Like, what are you doing, bitch? 1.00

02:48:32.000 He was doing what Anderson Silva did to Forrest Griffin and has done all his career. 0.99

02:48:35.000 But he's doing this to a guy who's the 187, 85 pound, rather, best ever.

02:48:41.000 Right, right.

02:48:42.000 And he's not even a 185 pounder.

02:48:45.000 He's really a 155-pounder.

02:48:47.000 I mean, Nick Diaz, when he was a champion in Strikeforce or Elite XC, Elite XC, right?

02:48:52.000 He was a 155-pound champion.

02:48:55.000 But what's amazing here is everything that we talk about, in terms of intangibles, mind-body connection...

02:49:01.000 Nick is imposing his mind-body connection on Anderson in that I'm gonna mess with yours. 0.99

02:49:06.000 He's fucking with his head, for sure. 0.99

02:49:08.000 Was he the champion? 1.00

02:49:09.000 Why am I not remembering it?

02:49:10.000 Was it Elite XC or Strikeforce that Nick Diaz was the champion of?

02:49:14.000 It might have been Strikeforce.

02:49:17.000 Why can't I remember?

02:49:19.000 Yeah.

02:49:20.000 But why did I think Elite XC? No.

02:49:23.000 I don't even think he fought Elite XC, did he?

02:49:26.000 Oh, okay.

02:49:27.000 Now I remember.

02:49:28.000 Because...

02:49:30.000 That was because Mayhem Miller and Jake Shields had a brawl in Elite XC. And Nick Diaz was a part of the brawl.

02:49:44.000 They all piled on each other and that was chaos.

02:49:47.000 But that was him, Paul Daly as well.

02:49:50.000 The knockout, but also just kind of fell.

02:49:55.000 So it's...

02:49:56.000 It's so strange that this intangible, this thing that I'm now fascinated with, like, mentally...

02:50:01.000 Yeah, KJ Nunes, Elite XC. So he did fight him in Elite XC. That's right.

02:50:04.000 So he fought in Elite XC and then became Strikeforce champion.

02:50:06.000 That's why I'm confused.

02:50:08.000 Wow.

02:50:10.000 Whatever Mayweather did differently to Aldo might have been, granted, different sports, granted.

02:50:16.000 But there was something that McGregor was like, it's not working.

02:50:20.000 The way that when he pinched...

02:50:21.000 You know, Aldo's neck and Aldo turned around.

02:50:24.000 And, you know, again, without understanding the technical element, for me, it was so fascinating watching the two.

02:50:29.000 And like you said, Mayweather stood there completely stoic.

02:50:33.000 Yeah, Aldo was not comfortable with it.

02:50:35.000 And he lost his composure.

02:50:37.000 And he attacked Connor in a way that exposed him.

02:50:42.000 He got exposed to a counter shot.

02:50:44.000 He wasn't patient.

02:50:46.000 He was very emotional. 1.00

02:50:47.000 And he just wanted to fuck that dude up. 1.00

02:50:49.000 And he just got clipped. 0.99

02:50:50.000 Right, right.

02:50:51.000 And look, Connor played him perfectly.

02:50:53.000 Played him like a fiddle.

02:50:54.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:50:55.000 Hey man, I gotta wrap this up.

02:50:56.000 It's already 5 o'clock.

02:50:57.000 We just went for three hours, believe it or not.

02:51:00.000 It's a time warp in here.

02:51:01.000 I'm so sorry!

02:51:02.000 No, don't be sorry.

02:51:03.000 It was awesome.

02:51:03.000 I really appreciate it.

02:51:04.000 And what you did is...

02:51:08.000 Beyond impressive, man.

02:51:09.000 I mean, it's fascinating stuff.

02:51:10.000 And I feel like we could do a hundred of these kind of conversations, though.

02:51:13.000 I'm so sorry.

02:51:14.000 How often are you in Los Angeles?

02:51:16.000 No, this is my first time.

02:51:17.000 Oh, well, come back.

02:51:18.000 Come back and visit again, man.

02:51:20.000 I'd love to.

02:51:20.000 Next time you're going to swim to the moon, let me know.

02:51:23.000 No, this is it.

02:51:24.000 Honestly, next time, we'll get Bert in.

02:51:27.000 Again, for the record, he's an amazing physical specimen of a guy.

02:51:30.000 For a fat guy, right? 0.62

02:51:31.000 No! 0.99

02:51:33.000 No?

02:51:33.000 No, seriously, we'll go swimming.

02:51:36.000 Okay, we'll do something.

02:51:37.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:51:38.000 Let's definitely do another podcast, though.

02:51:40.000 This has been amazing.

02:51:40.000 Either way.

02:51:41.000 Thank you so much.

02:51:42.000 Really, really appreciate it.

02:51:42.000 Thank you.

02:51:44.000 All right.

02:51:44.000 Oh, tell people your social media how to get to you.

02:51:46.000 Oh, bless you.

02:51:47.000 Yeah.

02:51:47.000 So, yeah.

02:51:48.000 Instagram, just Ross Edgley.

02:51:50.000 Spell, please.

02:51:51.000 Yeah, I know.

02:51:51.000 It gets difficult.

02:51:52.000 R-O-S-S-E-D-G-L-E-Y. Same on Twitter and same on Facebook.

02:51:57.000 Yeah.

02:51:58.000 Beautiful.

02:51:58.000 Thank you.

02:51:59.000 Thank you, brother.

02:52:00.000 Thank you.

02:52:00.000 All right, folks.

02:52:01.000 That's it for today.

02:52:01.000 Bye.

02:52:02.000 I am so sorry, thank you!

The Joe Rogan Experience - November 12, 2018

Joe Rogan Experience #1200 - Ross Edgley

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript