In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast, my friend and martial arts commentator Michael Chiavello stops by to hang out with me in my hometown of Sydney, Australia. We talk about his travels, how he got into the martial arts game, and what it's like to travel the world as a martial artist. We also talk about how the dollar is killing our dollar and why we should all be worried about it. Joe Rogans Experience Podcast is brought to you by The Fleshlight. If you go to The Fleshlights website, click on the link below and enter the code "ROGAN" and you get 15% off the top sex toy for men. Did I give you one last time? No, I got one for you, my brother! Nice tight one. -Joe Rogan -The Fleshlight Logo by Courtney DeKorte. Theme by Mavus White. Music by PSOVOD and tyops. This episode was produced and edited by Joseph Rogan. All rights reserved. Please do not use this promo code ROGAN at checkout to receive 15% of the sale price. Thank you for supporting the show. Joe is a big fan of the Fleshlight and all the products mentioned in the ad-free version of this episode. I hope you enjoy the show, it helps spread the word to the world. XOXO! -Jon Rogan Podcast. "Rogan's Back" - The Rogan Experience Podcast -Rogan Rogan's Back with Rogan"Rogan" -The Rogan "The Best of Rogan Podcast" - Rogan's Podcast - ROGan "The Realest Man" - Rogan Rogans "The One and Only" - "The Biggest Man in the World" - by Rogan, Rogan & Co. "The Other Way" - "The Good Life" "Aussies Traveling to Rome, Australia's Best Podcast & "The World's Best Joke of the Week" - JOE'S Back" , and "The Man Who Can Do It All?" - , "The Boy Who Couldn't Do It?" - "Noah's Back", , and "I'm Too Effing Goodness, I'm Too Good, I Can't Stop It" -and "I Can't Say It?"
00:00:04.000The Joe Rogan Experience Podcast is brought to you by The Fleshlight.
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00:01:22.000I watch that HD9. I told you, when you got here, when Mike and his wife got here, I was, or his fiancee, rather, I was fucking working out in the garage with his voice on the TV. Yeah, I got it set up so there's a TV back there, and that's all I ever watch.
00:01:57.000He might move to the United States of America.
00:01:59.000It's a long way to travel, brother, every two weeks from Melbourne to LA, then wherever we do the shows on HDNet and all the way back home.
00:02:06.000Then when I have to go to Europe, like before I came here, this trip I was in Europe.
00:02:10.000Then last month I was in Europe for Bama.
00:03:43.000It seems like if you look at it just from a pure resource-based standpoint, okay, there's a certain amount of oil, there's a certain amount of wood, there's a certain amount of plastic, a certain amount of material to make things, a certain amount of desire and need for these things.
00:03:55.000So once money gets moving, it pretty much stays moving.
00:04:58.000Then you find out the real CFR. Maybe Greece and now America is taking that lesson from Taiwan.
00:05:04.000How to spend too much money and not be able to pay it all back.
00:05:07.000Yeah, we were talking about this before.
00:05:09.000You know, Michael's been doing the K1 commentary forever and all the great K1 events, the Grand Prix's, the K1 Max and the Max Grand Prix's and the finals.
00:05:34.000So without the money to be able to pay fighters, how are they even going to stage a Grand Prix this year?
00:05:40.000How is the Ream going to get to defend the title if you can't afford your Alistair's and your Barahari's and your Semi-Shultz and your Reambo and Bonjasky's?
00:05:46.000God, I really don't see how that isn't a home run if somebody wanted to pick it up.
00:05:52.000You know, and I talked to Dana White about this.
00:05:55.000I said, dude, have you ever thought about buying the K-1?
00:05:57.000And it's like, eh, people don't give a fuck about K-1.
00:06:01.000You know, don't want to see kickboxing and sort of like PK, karate kind of like ruined it.
00:06:05.000Like there's some really good fights, but people, you know, MMA is so huge and so popular that it would almost be like, and I saw his point, it's like almost like creating your own competitor or something like that or building up a business that doesn't exist.
00:06:20.000But their product, though, is pretty much once somebody sees it, then you're hooked on it.
00:06:45.000He goes, I try to watch, and I can't watch it.
00:06:47.000Maybe it's just because I started off in striking base martial arts so I can appreciate the Giorgio Petrosians or the Masatos or those kind of characters.
00:06:55.000But to me, man, how the fuck do you not want the K1 Heavyweight Grand Prix?
00:07:46.000But I never see many of the other fighters hanging out with Remy.
00:07:50.000For the people who don't know what we're talking about, this is K1 deep inside shit, Remy is Remy Bonjowski.
00:07:56.000Who's one of the greatest kickboxers to ever come out of Holland, which is one of the greatest kickboxing centers in the world, where America has really kind of lost touch with kickboxing.
00:08:08.000Holland has really embraced the sport, and it's gigantic over there.
00:08:12.000Guys like, you know, Peter Ertz, guys like Ernesto Hust, and, you know, and...
00:09:25.000If you want to learn the genuine art of Muay Thai, which is Thailand's national martial art dating back thousands of years and has long been their military martial art, still is their military martial art.
00:09:34.000You know, you go to Thailand to learn it.
00:09:36.000Any of the great camps over there from Fairtec, Sitchatong, WMC Camp in Koh Samui, and you learn the knees, the elbows, the grappling, and all the Thai techniques.
00:09:47.000If you go to Holland, though, what you're primarily learning is modified Thai.
00:09:51.000It's the punches, the kicks, and the knees with limited clinching and pretty much no elbows.
00:09:56.000You know, they have elbow fights over there, obviously, but the main rules are modified tie, which is knees and no elbows.
00:10:03.000Just, I think, for the reason that, you know, the cuts, first of all, stop a very good fight.
00:10:09.000As much as I love seeing a good elbow, there are a lot of times, especially commentating Muay Thai, where I rue having elbows in the sport because I've seen some great battles where two guys are going back and forth, just pounding at each other four rounds We go into the fifth round, you think, oh, this is going to go down to the wire.
00:10:56.000For entertainment purposes, though, and especially for television purposes, and where you're trying to grow sports, like in Holland back in the day, and in Japan, how they grew kickboxing since Master Rishi invented K1 in 1993. And the thing was all about television ratings.
00:11:11.000You know, K1 used to have a long-time clinching rule where you could put on a Muay Thai clinch and grapple with the guy like you do in Muay Thai.
00:11:17.000Till Alistair came and Bob Sapp came along and guys that could hang on to people and just bludgeon them.
00:11:25.000So now it's like one hand, one clinch, knee and release.
00:12:17.000What they're doing there is, it's very deep meaning.
00:12:20.000They're blessing their corner and asking the gods to bless their corner, thank their trainer, and also bless the opposite corner and hope that your opponent doesn't get hurt too much.
00:12:28.000And you have to perform this before every single fight, you know, WMC in Thailand in particular.
00:12:34.000And these guys can go for a long time.
00:12:36.000Some of them I've seen have been up to five minutes long.
00:12:59.000And he went over there and lived in Thailand and stayed over there for months and had a Muay Thai fight and they documented it for a TV show.
00:13:08.000It was a really fascinating experience, man.
00:14:15.000So a stadium champion, like, the stadiums are so popular that a fighter, like, say, Dodger Stadium, the guy would be the Dodger Stadium champion.
00:15:14.000And in my opinion, that style is the most effective style for stand-up.
00:15:18.000There's a lot of techniques that you find in other martial arts like wheel kicks and turning sidekicks that are real knockout techniques.
00:15:25.000But if you want to look at one comprehensive package for striking, It's so economical with the leg kicks, the short movements to create big power, the emphasis on power, especially the emphasis on power leg kicks, where they know there's only a certain amount of these you can take.
00:15:41.000Well, you know, there's a lot of flashy techniques, as you said before, in other martial arts, but think about it.
00:15:44.000For a self-defense purpose, if you're in a nightclub and some drunk guy's barreled you up against a wall, You're not going to It hurts, from that position.
00:16:14.000It's amazing how much control they have over you.
00:16:16.000Once you control your neck, like a handle.
00:16:19.000You control the opponent's motion, which is, I'm surprised that actually we don't see in mixed martial arts people utilizing the Thai clinch the way the Thais do and using it for takedowns.
00:16:29.000Yet again, you watch someone like, you know, WMC champion Tan Matsui or Sanchai and you see him lock up When you fought like Kurt Finlayson in Australia, would lock up with Kurt and just wrench him to the canvas.
00:16:40.000And the ties also follow you down onto the canvas, because what they like to do is...
00:16:46.000You know, knee your head, knee on the ribcage, on the way down.
00:16:50.000So if you look at that from a mixed martial arts position, these guys are often ending up in a mount almost, if not inside control from this beautiful...
00:17:37.000But it's one of those things that's going to slowly come over, you know, the real high level versions of it are going to come over into MMA. And then we're going to really see people appreciating it.
00:17:46.000I see, you know, you see the Anderson Silva version of it, but there's some guys out there like Bull Cow.
00:17:51.000That motherfucker grabs a hold of your neck.
00:17:54.000He gets those elbows planted and clips that hand behind the neck.
00:18:13.000He's going to squeeze the fucking shit out of you and put you unconscious.
00:18:15.000But he's a gorilla, brute force, power wrestler.
00:18:19.000Even though he knows the technique, he doesn't have it, that laser sharp, effective technique like a Marcelo Garcia, like the highest end Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
00:18:29.000It's just like these really super, super technical guys You get a guy who's super, super technical at that clinch and really understands it.
00:18:36.000And the thing is that the Thai fighters, you know, these guys are doing it with 12-ounce, 10-ounce gloves on.
00:18:52.000That's really what a big, big part of it is.
00:18:54.000And it's like one of the things that I would tell people about Taekwondo.
00:18:56.000Obviously, Taekwondo is not of the most effective martial art, but there's a few things in it that if you get really good at it, you can fuck people up with it.
00:19:03.000And they won't know that you know how to do it because for most people, it's a very, very difficult thing to learn, like spinning hook kicks and head kicks and all those techniques.
00:19:11.000And the reason why people get so good at it in Taekwondo is because in Taekwondo tournaments you can't punch to the face and you can't take a guy down.
00:19:18.000So you only concentrate on all these crazy leg techniques and in doing so you get a level of dexterity that you would never get if you looked at the whole thing.
00:19:28.000So that's like the argument in martial arts and mixed martial arts of being the specialist instead of being someone who's a jack of all trades.
00:19:37.000You know, being someone who's a killer at Muay Thai or being someone who's a killer at one particular aspect of mixed martial arts is way better than being pretty good at all of them.
00:19:49.000The other thing that gets me about, you know, you're talking about kicking in the various martial arts is just how...
00:19:53.000You think to yourself, if you don't know anything about martial arts, you think how many possible ways are there to throw a round kick at somebody.
00:19:59.000But the fact is, there are so many different ways.
00:20:03.000Throws a Mawashigeti different than a round kick from Taekwondo.
00:20:05.000Different from a round kick from Shotokan.
00:20:07.000Different from a round kick by a Savat fighter.
00:20:09.000Different from a round kick from a Muay Thai fighter.
00:20:11.000So many different ways that they throw them between the arts.
00:20:14.000And it's amazing how these have adapted over hundreds of years.
00:20:18.000Well, the question mark, Craig, is really just starting to make its way into MMA. I mean, really starting to be more effective in MMA. And this is something that Kyokushin guys have been throwing for decades.
00:20:26.000In Taekwondo, we would call it the fake front round kick.
00:20:29.000And basically the idea is that it comes like a front kick and then turns over nowhere and the opponent has no idea it's going to hit his face and those are the ones that really fuck you up.
00:20:59.000And we still don't see the front leg roundhouse kick from Taekwondo style.
00:21:02.000There's a fast Taekwondo front leg roundhouse kick.
00:21:05.000But the thing about a Taekwondo guy is that if you get really good at Taekwondo, you are going to have to be the kind of guy that can stop and look at it and go, okay, but I suck at all these other things.
00:21:15.000Now I've got to go get my ass kicked at something that I suck at.
00:21:19.000Instead of go to the gym and be a hero, now you're going to the gym and you're getting tapped out all the time.
00:21:24.000When you do that lead leg round kick in Taekwondo, are you switching up or are you throwing it off the lead stance?
00:22:40.000A man that nobody thought could get to the top of the sport because Andy Hug was a big-time Kyokushin legend, Sato Kaikan world champion, and, you know, entered K1 as the smallest fighter ever, pretty much, and one of the lightest fighters ever.
00:22:53.000Couldn't box to save his life at the start because, like Taekwondo, Kyokushin never allows face punches in any of their competitions.
00:23:00.000And taught himself how to box and persistence and became the biggest superstar in K1 history.
00:23:13.000And a lot of people are going, okay, like, what's that guy doing?
00:23:16.000Like, that guy just gained a fuckload of weight.
00:23:19.000There was always a lot of controversy.
00:23:20.000It also surrounded Andy's death as well, that the leukemia came on so quickly and so suddenly there's always that sort of little background rumor, well, was it because he was on something, you know, that therefore sped up his process?
00:23:31.000You gotta wonder, man, you know, when you're in such a dangerous environment like K1, you know, K1 is, if you've never seen it, I'm a fucking huge fan of it.
00:23:40.000I mean, it really is almost more gladiatorial than MMA in a way, because these guys have to fight multiple times a night.
00:23:47.000That's one of the few places where they still do it.
00:23:50.000To win the Grand Prix, you have to fight, and you've got to fight three Semi Schiltz, three Badr Hari, three Remy Bonjaskis, three Gokan Saki's.
00:24:13.000I did this little video clip with him in Japan a couple of years ago and I said to him at the end of the clip, you know, throw a leg kick to my leg.
00:24:19.000And I go, Daniel, just like really, really light.
00:25:17.000When Melvin Manhoof is telling you it's dangerous, a dude who goes into the cage with a dog collar on, a guy who looks like a goddamn superhero in a comic book.
00:25:28.000And I put the pad there and I was ready and then I just shit myself.
00:25:31.000Gave it to Mike Passanier and I said, hell, you take the kick.
00:25:34.000And you can hear the thud, you know, when you watch the show.
00:26:22.000I'm still not sure exactly what Mike says to those guys, but if you ever watch a Melvin entrance or a Bartahari entrance, you see Mike just absolutely skits out of the guy when they're at the top of the catwalk.
00:26:32.000And for some reason, he zones them, gets them in the zone.
00:26:51.000With all the traveling I do with the UFC and with comedy, it's hard, man.
00:26:55.000It's hard to schedule some other time.
00:26:57.000I'm just hoping that eventually there'll be a UFC in Holland.
00:27:00.000I mean, I think there's some laws against it right now, which is outrageous when you consider their great history in kickboxing that we talked about.
00:27:08.000Holland, politicians, don't be stupid.
00:27:10.000You can make a lot of money, and the world needs to see it.
00:27:27.000You know, guys like Rob Kamen, he took it to another level.
00:27:31.000Ivan Hippelard, Gilbert Ballentine, the pioneers that went to Thailand and fought and brought this stuff back over to Holland, and then took it from there.
00:27:38.000And when you watch Ramon fight, Ramon Decker's fight, and we fought in Thailand, he was doing some shit.
00:27:43.000His hands, you know, that's what the Dutch did.
00:27:47.000They added much superior hand techniques.
00:27:49.000Well, this is the thing with the Thais.
00:27:50.000The Thais always, and still to this day, start very slowly.
00:27:52.000The reason being that in Thailand, they bet on the fights.
00:27:55.000So even while the fight starts, they're still taking bets.
00:27:58.000So traditionally what the Thais would do would be to start very slowly and let the bets come in and not turn on the pace until the third round.
00:28:06.000So still, when you find most Westerners fighting a Thai, particularly in Thailand, I always think the best thing to do is just go for their jawline.
00:28:13.000Straight away, bull rush them, go hell for leather on the Thai's jaw.
00:28:16.000Because usually he's going to start very slow.
00:28:19.000He's going to sit back with that style, set his pace to the music.
00:28:22.000And you know, that music picks up in intensity as every round goes on for.
00:28:26.000For those that don't know, Muay Thai, traditional Muay Thai, is always accompanied by music.
00:28:30.000And usually in Thailand, it's a live band ringside.
00:29:20.000Instead of leaving their hand up here, they chop down because they knew that there was not much chance than an opponent because boxing is like the lowest scored technique in Muay Thai.
00:29:29.000They just don't consider boxing very high at all.
00:29:31.000So they don't work on it as much as they do their kicks and their knees and their elbows.
00:29:34.000So the Thais would traditionally chop their hand down to kick with more power and a lot of Westerners used to be able to hook them and be able to pick them off because this hand had come down.
00:29:43.000Nothing to cover the side of the face.
00:29:45.000Whereas now a lot of Western kickboxes you see, and particularly a lot of the Dutch, they'll throw their kick but still manage to keep the forearm up to predict the face.
00:29:52.000So they go with less power and they go with something that they could land and have a better defense.
00:29:57.000And you've seen someone like Abada Hari that when an opponent throws a chopping kick and chop with their hands, Abada's got that reach to be able to just go up the center, straight right across, and just knock guys out.
00:30:17.000I mean, you watch Vitaly Klitschko box.
00:30:19.000How the fuck do you get inside that jab?
00:30:21.000This is why when he fought David Hay, and I was watching it with a mate back home who's British, and he bit on David Hay, and he's like, nah, Hay's going to be too fast and too slick.
00:30:29.000And I said to him, bro, there's no way Hay fucking gets inside that jab to land anything of consequence on Klitschko.
00:30:36.000As long as Klitschko's in shape, and as long as he's in good condition and motivated and has no knee problems so he can move well...
00:31:36.000An eloquent technical fighter like that pulls in the audiences.
00:31:38.000Going back to Andy Hug, we were talking about before.
00:31:41.000When Andy used to fight and his fights were broadcast on Swiss TV Live, it would outrate the tennis matches of Martina Hingis and outrate the Swiss national soccer team.
00:31:52.000I mean, just fucking extraordinary figures that they used to do.
00:31:55.000And Andy, like the Klitschkos, was well-spoken, clean-cut, highly educated, could speak three or four languages, and there was nothing to dislike about the guy.
00:32:04.000I never got to meet him, but I did get to interview him over the phone probably about two years before he died.
00:32:10.000And just talking to him, he was just...
00:32:45.000Yeah, I've seen some old photos of Andy, if you've seen his cock-a-shingi and that, very, very lean.
00:32:49.000And then just, you know, put on the size in K1, however he did it, he did it.
00:32:53.000And, you know, learnt how to box, which was a major undoing, because especially back in those days, you're talking 93, 94, 95, 96, a lot of...
00:33:03.000Traditional karate guys weren't cross-training in boxing like they do these days.
00:33:06.000Now, Andy came from strictly a full-contact karate background, which, as we said, no face punching.
00:33:11.000But also, which is why we said why he had such great kicks.
00:34:22.000It's just got to be so unpredictable, you know?
00:34:25.000And it can be fast, because the trajectory for an execute to travel is a lot of time for a quick opponent to be able to capitalize on.
00:34:31.000Herb Perez was one of those guys that actually thought about getting into MMA, and I think if anybody from the Taekwondo world would have been good at MMA, it probably would have been him, because I got to see him compete a bunch of times.
00:34:41.000He actually knocked out one of my friends.
00:34:44.000He would knock out a lot of guys, and he would punch a lot of guys, too.
00:34:47.000He had a different style, this different real attacking power style of Taekwondo.
00:34:53.000If he learned real boxing and learned how to sprawl, he would fuck a lot of guys up, because the speed of his legs, guys wouldn't have been able to handle those kicks coming at their face.
00:35:03.000They wouldn't know it could get there that quick.
00:36:31.000For seven and a half years, I edited the Australian equivalent of Black Belt Magazine called Blitz Magazine.
00:36:37.000And, you know, writing about all the different martial arts and the traditional arts and we do sequence frames, you know, to show defenses against knife attacks and defenses against boxing and all this sort of stuff.
00:36:47.000And you look back at it now after the, you know, the propagation of mixed martial arts and the popularity of mixed martial arts that exposed so many of the myths.
00:36:55.000And I flick back through some of the old magazines.
00:37:08.000Yeah, there was some ridiculous shit going on.
00:37:10.000And a lot of the guys that would believe that shit so much, and this was one of the things that absolutely put me off working for the magazine towards the end, was hating having to write about instructors and how humble they were, and that they had no ego whatsoever.
00:37:26.000And these are the same guys that are ringing you up saying, I want to be on the front cover of the magazine.
00:37:38.000They are bowing and doing it for very little money.
00:37:42.000It's just sort of gave me a very bad taste for some traditional martial artists that believe a lot of their own hype.
00:37:47.000That said, though, I'm a big fan of traditional martial arts because I love the aesthetics of it as well.
00:37:51.000Well, traditional martial arts are much like any sort of school of philosophy where one person knows more than you and they're going to teach you.
00:37:59.000You're going to get two different types.
00:38:10.000And you're going to get some charlatans.
00:38:12.000You're going to get a lot of people just like cult leaders.
00:38:15.000You know, there are people out there that I believe that are legitimate spiritual leaders.
00:38:18.000And by what they are, is they're a person that's on a road and they're further ahead than you.
00:38:22.000You know, if the guy's been living at a Buddhist monastery, you know, eating a very raw vegan diet and meditating all day for 10 years, that's an experience that very, very few people have ever attempted.
00:38:34.000And if you hung out with that guy or talked to him, I guarantee you can pick something up from him.
00:38:38.000By that same token, there's a lot of charlatan cult leaders in martial arts, and there are so many of them out there that have- More than not.
00:38:58.000You know, I've seen instructors around the world and several stories of instructors who have taken advantage of students, you know, for sexual purposes and stuff like that, just because the control, the seeming mind control they have that they implement in those students, it's cultish.
00:40:04.000All I did was Taekwondo and kickboxing and Muay Thai towards the end.
00:40:08.000Muay Thai and kickboxing when I was 22. My last fights were kickboxing.
00:40:12.000But my whole life was all this Taekwondo shit.
00:40:15.000And I would go from this world of very little order, you know, which my life was, to all of a sudden, you know, some guy's fucking screaming at you and, you know, say, yes, sir!
00:40:25.000This whole bowing and this respect thing and then actually becoming a black belt, all of that to me, it forced me into thinking at a higher level.
00:40:37.000It forced me into composing myself, presenting myself on a higher level that I had a higher calling to answer to.
00:40:46.000The funny thing back then as well, I remember talking to you about this when we did The Voice Versus, you know, it was the black belt.
00:40:55.000How much people thought of black belts back then?
00:40:58.000I remember, and I told you this story when I was 12 years old.
00:41:01.000I remember at high school, a kid came up to me and we were talking about karate and being a black belt.
00:41:06.000And he's like, yeah, you know, here in Australia, you're not allowed to be any more than a fifth damn black belt or you're considered a lethal weapon.
00:41:40.000So I go over, I'm a fucking asshole, of course.
00:41:42.000I have to go over and I go, boss, that woman over there, He said that her boyfriend's a big fan of mixed martial arts, and he's such a bad motherfucker, he had to get his hands registered.
00:41:52.000And of course, you know Boss Root, it's like, this is not true.
00:44:05.000You know, the last time I did your show, I did the voice verses, and you and I sat, and we talked about black dudes doing kung fu in the park.
00:44:17.000You know, because I was making fun of like, what they do is, not saying that hitting someone using Kung Fu techniques wouldn't be effective.
00:44:26.000What we're saying is, this method of training that these guys employ in the park is basically a really antiquated old way of developing techniques for martial arts.
00:44:37.000And what it is, is one guy pretends to hit you, and then you pretend, you get out of the way, and then hit him with a bunch of other shit.
00:45:25.000The stuff that works on trained killers is the best stuff.
00:45:28.000And any of you crazy kung fu guys that still think you can hang in MMA, get in there with just kung fu training and the high level guys are going to take you down and they're going to choke the fuck out of you and they're going to leg kick you and they're going to blast you.
00:46:44.000Yeah, if you're a chick and your whole style of fighting is based on staying in one line, I mean, that's obviously a chick that did not want to spread her legs in any way.
00:47:01.000You know, he then realized, okay, Wing Chun gave him his base and all the Shaolin wooden dummy stuff that they practice on, all those trapping hands, and, you know...
00:47:09.000From there, though, he started to cross-drain.
00:47:14.000And people, you know, they look at Bruce Lee movies, and they're fun and everything, but if you know really about Bruce Lee, the techniques that he used in his movies, he just used because they look cool.
00:47:24.000His fighting style of Jeet Kune Do is really very effective.
00:47:27.000Into the Dragon, the first time that Mixed Martial Arts was on movies, right?
00:50:07.000really not really you know once on Fear Factor some guy got in my face but it wasn't like I didn't really have to do anything I just grabbed it I got him in the tie clencher actually that's what I did to him I've only been in one it's like no it was like 16 months ago 16 months ago?
00:51:51.000For those that don't know, I'd studied Muay Thai for about three and a half years back in Australia with Mark Castanini.
00:51:56.000So the Muay Thai lessons came flooding back.
00:51:59.000So I'm blocking his punches, blocking his punches, and I remember that Mark had taught me a technique back in the day, which is not a Muay Thai technique, but Mark is a bouncer for many, many years, and it's actually his stories that my best-selling book, Bouncer, were based on.
00:54:55.000I think it's very important in any situation, any real live situation like that, to always throw the probabilities and possibilities into the old computer and come out with, what's worst case scenario here?
00:55:07.000Well, worst case scenario could be pretty fucking bad.
00:55:47.000And I used to work on radio on a very popular station in Melbourne called Kix FM. And because I had this nice voice that everyone thinks, I still don't think is that good, but I used to have girls ringing in the studio all the time asking me to go out with them.
00:57:50.000She walked out and she's in barefoot walking on the gravel driveway holding stilettos in her hand.
00:57:54.000I'm like, this fucking dirty bitch with her dirty feet is going to get in my car now.
00:57:57.000She hops in the car and we're driving into town because I booked a sushi restaurant and a movie and then to go to a nightclub that my mate had just opened up.
00:58:05.000Why didn't you just say, I'll be right back?
01:03:01.000Oh, well, I rang Liz yesterday or last night and she couldn't talk and she was all breathy and panty and said she couldn't talk to me because she was in bed with you.
01:04:28.000You don't feel bad for someone who's just fucked intellectually, fucked physically, fucked socially.
01:04:35.000No, but you know, no one pisses me off the fuck socially, because at least learn to buy a fucking bottle of antiperspirant and stick it under your fucking arms.
01:04:42.000At least learn the decency to walk to my car with your shoes on.
01:04:58.000Dude, this other chick, this other chick that lived like Catherine Zeta-Jones was fucking hot.
01:05:02.000So I met her at a nightclub, got her details, and she goes, come over to my house.
01:05:06.000So she lives down in Broadmeadows, which if someone from Melbourne's listening, Broadmeadows is the wrong end of town to be on.
01:05:11.000Should have been a warning sign again for me, but it wasn't.
01:05:14.000Drive out to Broadmeadows, sitting there on her sofa, on her couch, and we're watching some Johnny Depp film I'd never seen called Cry Baby.
01:06:08.000She makes up the baby's formula, puts it in the microwave, nukes it, goes back in the baby's room, comes back and joins me like 30 seconds later and presses play on the video.
01:06:16.000Isn't it amazing when you think about how little a person has to know you before you're over their house?
01:06:23.000Like, you don't even know that she has a baby.
01:06:25.000That's how limited your interaction has been and all of a sudden you're over her house.
01:14:12.000In a moment, the girl says something like that and goes, listen, you seem like you're in a bad mood, so I'm going to send you home, and you take care, and I'll call you later.
01:14:19.000Dude, where were you on my shoulder when you couldn't meet me?
01:14:21.000Because that's the reason I dumped her eventually.
01:14:23.000After six weeks, we're making out in the car.
01:15:04.000Yeah, but man, I was a late bloomer, but I made up for it in due time.
01:15:08.000Listen, man, you're always going to run into weird people if you're trying to date because you're going to run into weird people just randomly trying to make friends.
01:15:15.000You know, the problem is people are so horny that they're not that particular about who they stick their penis inside of.
01:15:21.000That's why you wind up with so many fucked up situations.
01:15:23.000Do you know the thing that shoots me, and maybe you can relate to this as well, is that...
01:15:27.000When I used to date chicks and I go out to chicks and there was like chicks that I used to like that didn't like me back then.
01:15:32.000But recently, because my profile's gone up, you know, working on TV and people are seeing my face on TV and stuff, those chicks like send you a message out of nowhere.
01:15:41.000Find you on Facebook or find you on Twitter or, you know, they suddenly have your number back in their phone.
01:16:24.000I was in Vegas for the first time ever.
01:16:26.000This was like going back in 2006 or 2007 for K1. And after the show, we'd stayed at Bellagio for K1 and then I stayed at Ray's for a few nights.
01:16:33.000But he was going to Japan, so I had a whole house to myself.
01:17:26.000She started describing the fucking process, whatever, to me.
01:17:29.000But she got like a cigar that was that big and somehow sliced it with a razor blade and hollowed it out and stuffed all this blunt in there.
01:17:54.000Sometimes with tobacco inside of it, but most of the time not.
01:17:57.000But using the tobacco leaf, which is the cigar case...
01:18:02.000The difference between cigars and joints or cigarettes is that if you smoke a cigar, there's an actual leaf that's covering it.
01:18:12.000The whole thing that you're smoking is pure plant matter.
01:18:15.000A good cigar, especially, they're prized for their leaf and their wrapper.
01:18:20.000It's a special plant that they grow just particularly for that purpose.
01:18:24.000When you inhale it though, you don't inhale a cigar.
01:18:28.000When you smoke a cigar, you take a breath You keep it in your mouth and then you blow it out and you taste it and you get a buzz from the nicotine.
01:22:22.000Yeah, if you had to make friends the way you try to get laid, like if it was really important, like you needed a friend every couple of days, you know, I mean, Jesus Christ, your friendships would be fucking chaotic.
01:22:52.000Yeah, there's some dudes that you will have good times with in the beginning, but then somewhere along the line, as you get to know them better, their character flaws are exposed and they're not willing to be honest about it.
01:23:03.000So then every time you're hanging around with that person, it becomes a problem.
01:23:09.000It becomes this person's character flaw that everybody has to sort of deal with, whether it's jealousy or whether it's being overly aggressive, whether it's being de- dicky to women whatever the fuck it is you know there's certain dudes that are not willing to look at reality and they're not willing to evolve and the real problem is if you surround yourself with someone like that that all your evolution stops All your progress as a human being stops as does theirs.
01:23:36.000So when you're out with them, man, if they're acting cunty and douchey, you're locked into this cunty, douchey life.
01:23:43.000This is who you're hanging out with, man.
01:23:44.000And if you don't surround yourself with like-minded people, you don't grow together.
01:23:48.000So when you're with someone that you feel like is a roadblock to your own personal enlightenment, it's important for you to separate yourself from that person.
01:23:55.000Did you ever hear from this guy again?
01:23:56.000And when you did, is it like the awkward ex-girlfriend calling?
01:23:59.000It's a few different guys, not just one.
01:24:01.000Yeah, a bunch of different guys over the years.
01:24:03.000You know, it's just people just, you know, and look, I'm a very good and loyal friend.
01:24:08.000And I pride myself on keeping good and loyal friends and making them appreciate, making them realize how much I appreciate them and making them, you know, I think friendships are one of the most important things you could foster in this world, you know, to be able to.
01:24:25.000One of the most beautiful things about this podcast has been the fact that I've exposed a lot of people to the friends that I've cultivated.
01:24:35.000My friend Brian Callan and Duncan and all these really brilliant people that I know that are really interesting cats.
01:24:40.000I mean, that's my proudest achievement in life, is surrounding myself with an interesting group of friends.
01:24:45.000And I shouldn't say proudest, but most satisfying.
01:25:24.000There's no growing and it all becomes dealing with them and their issues.
01:25:29.000And as you get older, you realize, don't you?
01:25:30.000You see how many friends you had when you were young and as you get older, you cull it and cull it and cull it.
01:25:35.000And dude, I've got like five friends that I keep really close, like my inner circle that know shit about me.
01:25:40.000Then everyone else is a big fucking perimeter around that inner circle.
01:25:46.000Sorry, but the more you travel as well and you're away from home and away from those friends, you realize how much you love them and how much you do need them in your life and close to you and giving that love to you and that positive energy to you so that you can survive in your own life.
01:26:01.000Human beings, like I always say of my closest friends, that my friend Brian Cowan is a perfect example.
01:26:09.000If Brian considers something and he brings it to me and tells me about it, I know that it's going to be well thought out and I know that I can consider it almost as if...
01:26:22.000I can appreciate his experiences and his interpretations of his experiences so much.
01:26:27.000I can trust in them so much that I trust in them almost as much as I would trust in my own.
01:26:31.000Because the genuine friends that you know have no personal agenda that the advice they give you or they recommend is going to be solely for your own benefit and nothing to do with them trying to gain from it.
01:26:40.000- Soly honest. - Yeah, exactly. - 'Cause there's folks that you talk to where you don't get that, man.
01:26:46.000You get this weird amalgamation of the truth and fiction because they don't want to come off looking like a loser or they don't want to come off looking like an asshole when in fact maybe some more shit was their fault and you're not getting the full version of it and they want you to back them up.
01:27:02.000If you're my friend, you'd back me up.
01:27:14.000It's a real problem that people have fostering good friendships and good relationships.
01:27:19.000And that's one of the happiest things that I've been able to do with this podcast.
01:27:23.000I've talked to so many people that we've met.
01:27:25.000You know, all over the country that don't have people that are thinking like this around them.
01:27:30.000So they're not exposed to a lot of the stuff that we're talking about in their neighborhood or in their community, in their circle, their social circle.
01:27:38.000You know, and you got to find people like this.
01:27:41.000You got to find people that you can trust and hang out with because they're out there.
01:27:46.000You could have a bunch of negative cunt friends and just think that all your friends and all the people that you're ever going to meet are negative cunts and then all of a sudden you'll just find some oasis of nice people and if you're not a negative cunt and those people like you, then all of a sudden your life immeasurably gets better.
01:28:01.000If your friendships are good, your life is immeasurably better.
01:28:04.000That's why I always tell people in bad relationships and bad friendships, just fucking get out.
01:28:09.000If you're confident that it's not you, if you're a nice person, then just get out.
01:28:14.000Dude, I've seen some people stick around in marriages and relationships where it's fucking abuse, yelling matches every night.
01:28:21.000You know, it's like, how the fuck do you stay there?
01:28:23.000And there's some people that will tell you that if you don't yell, you don't love.
01:28:29.000You know, we've never had a yellow match.
01:28:30.000We might have disagreements, but they're fucking over in 30 seconds, and they don't get nasty, no yelling matches.
01:28:36.000Yelling matches usually come, I think, in relationships where someone is trying to point score on their partner and get the upper hand.
01:28:44.000And I always think to myself, Joe, if you love someone, why the fuck would you want to try and point score on them?
01:28:49.000It's all in how you get raised, I think, a lot of it.
01:28:51.000A lot of it is people growing up with horrible, horrible relationships.
01:28:54.000And sometimes people grow up in horrible relationships and it actually makes them better at relationships because they realize, well, fuck, I don't want to be like my mom and dad.
01:29:12.000You know, the real reality of relationships is the idea of finding one human being and you've lived 30 plus years of programming and changing your personality and molding to your environment and adapting to all the shit that you see in your world and then...
01:29:30.000Out of nowhere you introduce some new player and you gotta decipher the fucking Dead Sea Scrolls.
01:29:36.000You gotta go back and figure out where all this comes from.
01:29:49.000How much does she really believe in this God thing?
01:29:53.000But then you also sort of think to yourself, like you said, meeting that person, you think to yourself, okay, there's six billion people in the world, let's call three and a half billion of them women, and you're trying to meet this one, and you're trying to meet this one pretty much within, what, a 20-kilometer radius of your house?
01:30:07.000You're not trying to meet your interstate or another city or other cities?
01:30:12.000Let's even call it 20 miles of your house, 30 miles of your house, in your ratio of where you go out to, your perimeter, circumference of where you head out.
01:30:55.000Especially people that aren't happy with their art or their career or their chosen profession or whatever the fuck it is they're pursuing and they're in some state of turmoil where they're trying to accomplish some things.
01:31:06.000A lot of people out there are unhappy with themselves, man.
01:31:08.000And they're not going to be happy no matter who the fuck they're with.
01:31:11.000They're going to get comfortable with anybody and start being dicky with them because they're dicky with themselves.
01:31:16.000And then like you said, they're the people you don't want to be around because their negative energy is just fucking intense, man.
01:31:21.000You know how he was saying before about the friends and how your close friends, sometimes their thoughts are like similar to your thoughts.
01:31:31.000who could apparently medically treat people by apparently being able to tap into the worldwide consciousness of everyone and pluck any information he needed from any mind in the world to be able to diagnose someone.
01:31:43.000I have heard pro and con for Edgar Cayce.
01:31:46.000My friend Eddie is a big proponent of Edgar Cayce, but he's also big into UFOs.
01:32:02.000And so I think it's interesting to me that there could be a possibility of some person who has some incredible extrasensory perception to the point where they can read your future or your past or find out things about you.
01:32:15.000I'm not convinced and I'm also not convinced that people are being objective about their accounts because I know, like many other things, people want to believe that shit works.
01:33:06.000If you believe that praying to God brings you what you want in life, what you're really doing is just transmitting your positive thoughts, your positive energy.
01:33:36.000People want to believe bullshit, is my point.
01:33:39.000This is 2011. Crazy people are still wearing these goddamn rubber braces with these holograms on them.
01:33:45.000But also in the life we live and the society we live in, people are always looking to get that upper hand and looking to get that slight edge.
01:33:51.000And wow, if this bracelet can give me that slight edge over on my opponent, that slight edge in my work, then they want to believe that the bracelet's going to give them that edge.
01:34:00.000And they give themselves that edge naturally by their self-belief.
01:34:35.000But a lot of people want to believe in it.
01:34:36.000And it's interesting to me that people are so anti-performance-enhancing drugs, yet they'll wear a rubber band with a fucking hologram on it.
01:34:44.000You know, like it's going to reprogram your system.
01:35:09.000It's so strange what arbitrary line in the sand we draw as to what is a vitamin, what is an athletic supplement, and what is performance enhancing.
01:35:33.000I mean, if you're eating regular food and you're getting a certain amount of nutrients from food, and then on top of that, you're force-feeding yourself massive doses of vitamins, B12 and fucking...
01:36:13.000If you've got a testosterone depletion in your body and you need to take the drugs to boost your levels up to that of a normal person or that of the person you're competing against...
01:36:21.000Listen though, Keith Kaiser, who I've had my problems with in the past, the head of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, took a very strong stance on this and I support him.
01:36:28.000And one of the reasons why I support him is he won't allow testosterone replacement therapy for people who have tested positive for steroids before.
01:36:45.000And if you cheek, your clip becomes like a dick.
01:36:47.000And I see his argument in that there shouldn't be, as far as you want to compete as an athlete, when you've ruined your body from cheating.
01:36:57.000You know, there is a strong moral statement to be made there that I do see that point.
01:37:06.000I'm not necessarily sure that I agree with it, because I think you should be allowed to make mistakes in the past, and I know how much performance-enhancing effect a cycle that you did six years ago is gonna have on today, and it's nothing.
01:37:16.000You might have damaged your body, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to stand up as an athlete to perform.
01:37:21.000But I think you probably should have to do some sort of public relationship, explaining, and maybe perhaps letting people know, hey, please don't do steroids, because my balls don't work anymore.
01:39:29.000Anything that helps you, anything that makes your body perform better, for sure someone who's living is stepping into a goddamn cage and throwing their bones at somebody.
01:39:39.000And the only exceptions are going to be someone who's an elite athlete who doesn't need it.
01:39:43.000There's a lot of guys who don't need anything.
01:39:45.000Young guys who are recovering at a high level still and they don't need it.
01:39:49.000They're just high nutrition and taking care of their body.
01:39:52.000Older athletes, man, when you get into guys that are in their late 30s, you see a guy like Bernard Hopkins.
01:39:59.000Look, I am not going to cast any speculation as to what Bernard Hopkins is taking or not taking.
01:40:26.000And there's a lot of singers that take it, too.
01:40:27.000I know of a lot of famous singers and actors that are getting on in years, especially singers that have to go under the duress of doing a lot of concerts on the road, high-intensity style of living, to take growth hormone just to keep young, just to maintain a youthful look and be able to recover the stress they put on their bodies.
01:40:46.000It's not just strictly limited to athletes.
01:40:47.000Yeah, but the athletes for sure are the ones who are going to need it because they're the ones who are worried about their actual physical health when it comes to competing.
01:40:54.000They're the ones who are really going to need it and really going to want it.
01:40:57.000And I always stress this, stopping steroids or stopping any of this is a finger in a dam that is eventually coming down because of science.
01:41:08.000There's going to be a large scale ability to manipulate your own genetics.
01:41:18.000They're looking into all sorts of artificial organs and recreating organs in labs and they've been successful in doing this.
01:41:27.000We're successful in transplanting these and they're working on manipulating the human body at a very high level and they're not going to stop.
01:41:35.000So it's eventually going to keep going in the same direction it's going and one of the directions is of course performance enhancing drugs, anti-aging drugs, Things that make people younger.
01:41:44.000They've already discovered all sorts of different ways to manipulate the genetics to make, you know, mice stronger.
01:41:49.000You know, those things called myostatin inhibitors that they've done with mice.
01:41:55.000And apparently whippet dogs are more susceptible to this because of the way they breed them.
01:41:58.000And that, you know, if they breed them incorrectly, if there's some sort of a mistake in the pairing or whatever, One of the offshoots, one of the fuck-ups is this lack of myostatin inhibitors.
01:42:08.000And these whippets are giant, super-muscled dogs that don't even look real.
01:42:13.000They're going to be able to do that to people, man.
01:42:28.000You couldn't take a painkiller, a headache tablet, nothing like that.
01:42:32.000I was just in Hawaii and I was reading about the great history of Hawaii and what happened and how it became an American state and all the whole deal.
01:42:39.000And one of the things was about how when white people first came over to Hawaii, one-fifth of the population died from disease.
01:42:59.000But we were talking about that earlier on.
01:43:00.000You know, like that downscaling of humanity from you go back 5,000 years ago and the ancient Greeks and the Egyptians and the ancient Romans just were so fucking intelligent, man.
01:43:20.000Everything just fucking went downhill in a big way.
01:43:23.000People are so flawed that as high as the heights can reach, there's always going to be a potential for a regress.
01:43:31.000There's always like the tide comes in and it goes out.
01:43:34.000And I think it's always moving forward, but there's always a potential for a Michelle Bachman-type presidential situation and religious fanaticism overcomes the earth and fucking...
01:43:49.000Like, it will always move towards the positive and towards the more comprehensive and more evolved, but there's always the potential for relapses.
01:43:59.000You're going to wonder, too, like, the Dogon tribe, I think they're called in Africa, these guys were fucking, thousands of you go, mapping out constellations.
01:44:38.000But it just randomly turned out to be this rock, the way it's shaped.
01:44:43.000And if you didn't know any better, or if you had a satellite and you were looking from Mars, you know, and you were studying Earth and you saw that rock, you'd be like, look, this is proof.
01:44:52.000This is proof that intelligent life has created this rock.
01:45:41.000Because the second window across right on the end there, the Madonna, there was this oil stain on the window, like fucking someone throwing cooking oil on the window, that if you sort of looked at it and you had that picture in your mind that someone's telling you it looks like the Madonna, like the Virgin Mary, you think, yeah, okay, it looks maybe like a chick holding a baby.
01:45:59.000It's like, oh, this is their big thing.
01:46:01.000The Virgin Mary holding the baby, the Madonna, a sign on the window.
01:46:04.000And for some reason, this fucking villager has managed to keep this oil stain on his window for like the past 30 years.
01:46:43.000And I don't see any way around it until we figure out a way to have, like, super intelligent robots that do all the menial tasks that we need really dumb people.
01:46:52.000And when we do have that happen, then it's going to be even more of a problem because it's going to be some sort of a weird, bizarre welfare state where we're going to have to take care of all these morons that we had given shitty jobs before because they really don't have anything to contribute.
01:47:11.000As our society becomes more and more self-sufficient and more and more reliant on computers, and then we don't need people to do mundane, retard tasks, what the fuck, man?
01:47:34.000I mean, look, you can't turn a group of people into little babies that always need their daddy and then just cast them loose in the woods and say, sorry, no more daddy.
01:47:43.000You know, because that daddy, they're going to hate that daddy.
01:47:46.000They're going to come back and they're going to want revenge.
01:47:59.000You know, that's the point of this whole idea of everyone working together is that everyone has something to contribute.
01:48:05.000But the reality is the way the system is set up.
01:48:08.000There's a huge chunk of people that don't have anything to contribute, so they have to find some way to plug themselves into the bureaucracy, plug themselves into this complicated economic situation, and that just defeats the whole fucking purpose of the machine.
01:48:23.000The whole purpose of the machine is everybody's got a little piece to play, everybody's got a little thing to do.
01:49:07.000The idea is if you could kill most people and then rock all the resources in the world and have life extension.
01:49:13.000And that's the idea, that you would have some incredible ability to stay alive forever, and, you know, if you did have, like, some crazy, like, super technical life, Aubrey de Grey, life extension technology that only the elites had a hold of, and you could live to be a thousand years old, well then, you know, you could have, like, harems and shit, and if there's only 500,000 people on the earth, you could rock it just like a king.
01:50:17.000We're in wars all over the fucking planet.
01:50:19.000We're involved in all sorts of fucking filth and craziness and the way we're polluting the environment and fucking devastating world economies and fucking people over in third world countries and providing with loans they can never pay back and then jacking all their resources.
01:50:33.000I mean, it's, you know, it's one case after the other to show that this is happening right now.
01:50:38.000Do you think back in those old days when they were raping and pillaging, they'd rape first then pillage?
01:50:41.000Or would you pillage first, then rape?
01:51:56.000If you're working with some chick and you say to her, listen, give me a fucking toss in the toilet cubicle, what's the big deal of a chick putting her hand in her cock and just jerking you?
01:52:06.000But they're worried that you're going to leave and become in a relationship with this woman who's really good at jerking you off and then you're going to leave.
01:56:26.000I mean, it's just, it's so ridiculous.
01:56:28.000They throw glitter on, like, Newt Gingrich.
01:56:31.000They throw glitter on Michelle Bachman, like, to, you know, to, like, you know, let them, make them, make them, force them to stay aware of, you know, gay rights and gay needs.
01:56:41.000Who do you think's gay, Elton John or Ricky Martin?
01:56:46.000More Elton John because he's been around back when there was no internet and you could just go crazy, freak, orgy, gay with crazy sunglasses on.
01:56:55.000Do you reckon he gives it or receives it?