Joe Rogan Experience #1260 - Lennox Lewis & Russell Peters
Episode Stats
Length
2 hours and 24 minutes
Words per minute
197.72772
Harmful content
Misogyny
64
sentences flagged
Toxicity
528
sentences flagged
Hate speech
48
sentences flagged
Summary
Lennox Lewis is one of the greatest boxers of all time. He has been in the ring with some of the best fighters in the world. He is a legend in his own right. In this episode, we talk about how he got started in boxing, how he lost weight, and what it takes to stay in shape in the modern era of boxing. We also talk about his weight loss journey and how he maintains a good amount of body fat. He also talks about why he doesn t drink alcohol anymore and why he likes it that way. We talk about the importance of sleep and how important it is to have a good night s rest and how to keep your body in peak condition. This is a must listen episode for anyone who has ever wanted to know what it's like to be in the boxing ring with a legend like that. Enjoy and spread the word to your friends and family about this episode! Enjoy, -The Guys Who Know Best and XOXO, Russell P. Peters & Dan "The Boy Who Couldn't Get Into The Ring" P.S. Don't Mess With The Best -Shoutout to the Boy Who's In The Ring for coming up next week! -Don't Mess with The Best. - & "Don't mess with the Best" -Tune in next week for our next episode to Russell P Peters & The Boy Who Has It All! and "The Man Who Can Do It All" - "The Best" - "The King of the World" - Don't mess With the Best? . - "Don t mess with Me?" - "You're Too Good" "I'm Too Good For This?" - The Man Who Could Do It? - "I'll Tell Me What's Good, Not Too Good? - 'I'm Not Good, I'll Tell Him How To Deal With It? "Not Too Good, But I'll Be Better Than You Don't Get in the Ring" - 'Don't Miss It?" - 'Can I Can't Do It, I'm Not Gonna Say It? " - "No, I Don't Have It Like That?" -' "I Can't Say That?" "That's Not Good Enough?" -"I'll See You Next Time?" - 'That's It's Not That Good, OK?
Transcript
00:00:12.000
Ladies and gentlemen, we are live with the great and powerful Russell Peters.
00:00:16.000
And one of the baddest motherfuckers to ever get into the ring, Lennox Lewis.
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You're walking around on this earth, one of the baddest motherfuckers of all time.
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00:00:46.000
It's like, you know, apple don't fall too far from the tree type of thing.
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I've always been that way, collective thinker, soft-spoken, and what you don't know about me, what you don't know about me, when you do know about me, you love me even more.
00:01:19.000
Just, you know, saying, okay, you know, I'm eating more, so I need to exercise because I'm not doing no exercising.
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But when I start exercising, I'm training for a fight.
00:01:31.000
I'm not going to fight, but I'm still training for a fight.
00:01:33.000
So mentally, I had to say to myself, well, let me try the soft things, you know, let me play tennis and all these different sports, which I can play.
00:01:43.000
Yeah, that is an interesting thing with fighters.
00:01:45.000
A lot of times when they're done, they're done.
00:01:49.000
Yeah, well, he's apparently gotten back into shape again.
00:01:52.000
He's back in training camp, but Maidana got big.
00:01:55.000
Because he probably got on Instagram and people started talking shit because he's kind of fat on his Instagram.
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People were like, holy fuck, did you eat your whole cast?
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You do look like you're losing weight, though.
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I lost 21 pounds with our dear friend, John Jack Machado.
00:02:12.000
Well, hey, jiu-jitsu will peel that weight off you.
00:02:16.000
You ever thought about doing jiu-jitsu, Lennox?
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00:02:20.000
Let me tell you, when I was growing up, I had friends that did wrestling, I had friends that did kickboxing, all these different programs.
00:02:57.000
So, you know, for me, I didn't really throw my weight around like that.
00:03:05.000
Okay, if you mess with me, something's going to happen.
00:03:11.000
Because I'm so serious at sometimes, like, you know, they can sense the seriousness of it.
00:03:28.000
It is an interesting thing, though, about fighters is that when you think of exercise, you think of exercise as you're preparing for a big, violent event.
00:03:38.000
Whereas for most people, they just don't want to be fat, they want to look good, they want to get in shape.
00:03:42.000
And, you know, it's a lot of people on Instagram that are just working out really hard every day, but there's no reason.
00:03:54.000
How do I maintain this shape without maintaining that lifestyle?
00:04:10.000
When I first started boxing, I was 147. How old were you?
00:04:27.000
It was like, you know, I see him as a big star now.
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I've seen him in movies and commercials, rescuing people.
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I literally used to sell him mixtapes in the 90s.
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He was already world champ, and I'd be playing a mixtape.
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Yeah, well, you know, everybody was making tapes back then.
00:04:58.000
Yeah, you remember those days where people were aggressively trying to sell tapes on the streets?
00:05:04.000
I was just playing it in my car, and he was like, yo, sell me that.
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You know, he had the real shit, so I had to get it.
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00:05:12.000
I didn't have that contact to get the music, so he had the music contact.
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A lot of people don't know, Russell's a legit DJ. I reluctantly gave him those mixtapes.
00:05:25.000
When you see him wrestling with people on TMZ, you see that shit?
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00:05:38.000
If you watch it, you see I went for his arm to pull down to get his neck, and then the other guy in front of him pulled him down and I couldn't get the neck.
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00:05:47.000
I mean, all I seen was a guy walking out and you grabbed him.
00:06:00.000
Earlier had checked to see if the door was open.
00:06:02.000
He went out to spit, and now he thinks the door's open, so now he thinks he's just going to get up and walk away with this ring.
00:06:14.000
And then they lock the doors, and then I'm standing there, and I'm like, what's going on?
00:06:18.000
And I'm like, he takes a swing at my friend's father, and then I go, no, no, I try to get his neck, and that guy pulls him, you see?
00:06:23.000
There's a lot of opportunities to get the neck there, son.
00:06:31.000
I had a jacket, a sweatshirt, and a long-sleeved shirt on me.
00:06:34.000
And then, so then I try to go for the arm, but everybody sees everybody's in my way, so I'm like, give me the arm, just let me get the arm, move, dad, move, dad.
00:06:47.000
Now I'm pushing the arm down, and you'll see I lock the wrist here.
00:06:59.000
Yeah, a little wrist lock, little Steven Seagal style.
00:07:09.000
I want to know how far we was going to make with a ring.
00:07:17.000
When he was trying to get out, he whacked his head against that wall.
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You don't think that they know that people grab things and run away?
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And apparently this guy had been coming to the store for six months scoping the place out.
00:07:52.000
Do you have to go to court or anything with that?
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00:07:57.000
All I was trying to do was hold him there because all the doors were locked.
00:08:00.000
It doesn't make sense to get into a scrap with the guy.
00:08:02.000
If I could just put him in a chokehold or a lock, then until the cops come.
00:08:14.000
Well, Russell's not really a law enforcement officer.
00:08:17.000
I know, but it would have been dangerous to everybody in the store if he was running wild.
00:08:32.000
And I kicked that leg out so he'd be on both knees.
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00:08:39.000
Now, if the whole thing happened again, how would you do things different?
00:08:42.000
I would have told everybody to get out of my way so I can get him in a choke and hold him.
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You went back home and obviously you feel good about yourself.
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Did you kind of run the whole thing through your mind a couple times?
00:09:01.000
Like, yo, this could have happened or what could happen in this situation?
00:09:04.000
No, I started thinking after if he had a gun or if he had a knife.
00:09:06.000
But I'm like, if he had a gun, he would have pulled it out right away.
00:09:11.000
You know, he's not here to surprise you with a gun.
00:09:15.000
Well, if there's that many dudes on him, too, good luck pulling that gun out.
00:09:19.000
One of us would have got shot, but probably in the foot or something.
00:09:22.000
You probably got real urgent if you saw him reaching for something.
00:09:27.000
Yeah, I think knees to the head would have kicked.
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00:09:38.000
That's why I was asking you about jiu-jitsu.
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00:09:39.000
Because when you're a world heavyweight champion boxer, after a while you're like, what other shit can I learn?
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00:09:44.000
I kept arm-locking him when we were in England.
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00:09:56.000
And, you know, martial arts has always been a part of my life.
00:10:00.000
And I say that because every fight I fought, before I fought that fight, I watched a martial art movie.
00:10:09.000
Like Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, that kind of shit.
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00:10:20.000
And that just got me in that mental state, like, you know.
00:10:25.000
Do you ever watch it and go, if this was around when I was fighting, would I do this?
00:10:31.000
The only thing I think about that, because, you know, like I said, I was in the wrestling, I did wrestling when I was younger, and boxing as well, so I didn't know they could combine them two until I got older, but, you know, my focus was more on boxing.
00:10:46.000
But, you know, if they get paid a lot of money, I probably would have done it.
00:10:50.000
Yeah, that's how a lot of people feel, I think.
00:10:56.000
For some people, like Conor McGregor or Ronda Rousey, but for the other folks, it's not enough to get a guy like Earl Spence to jump over.
00:11:06.000
I've seen some boxers actually good at boxing actually just win the fight on boxing because they're so good with their hands.
00:11:15.000
You can't have your lead leg out in MMA. That's the problem.
00:11:24.000
I stand sideways, even in the fight, because I know that I stick that leg out there for them to come at.
00:11:29.000
And obviously, you know, it's easy to grab a leg, but...
00:11:34.000
To me, I don't think fighting should start that way anyway.
00:11:37.000
When you start fighting, usually punches are thrown quick and it lasts a couple seconds.
00:11:41.000
Nobody really just goes for your legs unless they say, okay, I'm going to go for his legs and take him down.
00:11:53.000
A guy hit me in the leg one time and I was like, I couldn't move.
00:11:57.000
And I'm like thinking, if we got in a fight, kicked me in the leg and they gave me a dead leg like this, I don't know what I would do, so...
00:12:03.000
Yeah, and if it's a guy like your size, like a Rico Verhoeven, who's a glory world heavyweight kickboxing champion, they just keep their hands up and chew your legs up.
00:12:11.000
One or two shots of your legs, and it's a horrible feeling.
00:12:18.000
And they hit you right on the side of your knee.
00:12:26.000
I go mad when someone kicks me in my leg and it's like, yo, you kick me in my leg.
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00:12:31.000
I don't think anybody's kicking you in your leg anymore.
00:12:33.000
Did you ever see when Shannon the Cannon tried some kickboxing?
00:12:39.000
Oh, he got the ship beat at him, didn't he?
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Shannon got leg kicked, though, and he said, you know, Shannon talks, he's hilarious.
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00:12:47.000
He goes, champ, he goes, it hurts so bad, but I tried to play it off, champ.
00:12:52.000
He got hit with one leg kick and then he got hit with another one.
00:12:55.000
But he touched him with like a jab to the body and Tom Erickson got a little cocky.
00:13:01.000
He fought when he was in like this transitionary period and they offered him a lot of money.
00:13:06.000
Like right there he got leg kicked by this guy.
00:13:08.000
And the guy Tom Erickson that he fought is really more of a wrestler.
00:13:11.000
He kicked him twice and then Shannon, he actually broke it down for us on the podcast but he said his leg was hurting so bad And he tried to goad the guy into thinking that he could punch with him.
00:13:27.000
Yeah, but you'd think you would just let him do that.
00:13:31.000
But once you get hit with one of those things like that, it's so crippling to your leg.
00:13:37.000
Because like I said, I got hit there and I was like, my leg couldn't move.
0.99
00:13:47.000
Erickson tried to box with him for some strange reason.
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He got into this crazy idea, like right there, boom, he got clipped.
00:14:04.000
Isn't Shannon Briggs supposed to at least kick a couple times?
1.00
00:14:07.000
Well, you know, if he knew how to, but I think he went into there thinking, you know, I'll just crack him with a punch and knock him out, which he did.
00:14:16.000
But it's hilarious when you hear him break it down.
00:14:23.000
Yeah, under 100. But you can't be any more than like, what are you, 45, 47?
00:14:36.000
People have internet out there, so they'll just look it up.
00:14:45.000
But when you were, like, you were one of those guys who did the smart, you retired and you just retired.
00:14:53.000
We were just talking about Marvin Haggard the other day.
00:14:56.000
When Marvin Haggard retired, he's like, goodnight.
00:15:00.000
Lost a controversial decision to Sugar Ray Leonard.
00:15:03.000
He said, take care, I'm going to go do some movies.
00:15:10.000
Marvin was disheartened like a motherfucker with boxing, though.
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00:15:25.000
They know it's time because they've gone through so much and they realize that it's a lot of hard work.
00:15:29.000
For me, I've been boxing since I've been 15. So, you know, in training, hundreds of hours training, hundreds of hours working out, resting, working on technique, sparring, all these different things.
00:15:45.000
After a while, you know, you have to reach that height where you say, okay, that's enough.
00:15:53.000
Managers and trainers and promoters, they don't want to tell the boxer that's enough because that's how much they're making money off of that boxer every time he steps in the ring.
00:16:01.000
Did you have a conversation with Emmanuel Stewart about it?
00:16:16.000
He's a boxer that I definitely wanted to fight before retiring.
00:16:22.000
And I didn't know if it was going to happen or not.
00:16:25.000
So I actually stuck around for a couple more years for that fight to happen because I didn't want, throughout history, people would be saying, oh, Tyson would have won or Lewis would have won.
00:16:38.000
And then after the Tyson fight, Manny said, listen, Klisco's are around.
00:16:45.000
You can beat the guys from this generation and the guys from the next generation.
00:16:52.000
So he kind of talked me into doing that fight because I wasn't really going to do that fight.
00:16:56.000
And then, you know, that was a year after Tyson, and I didn't really want to box him straight away.
00:17:15.000
Klitschko was my first fight, which was a mistake.
00:17:26.000
Because the opponent that I actually picked to fight didn't want to fight me.
00:17:42.000
I think Klitschko felt that he was doing him a favor.
00:17:51.000
And then we'll give you the first shot after I win.
00:17:58.000
And that's that kickboxing style coming into play a little bit because he would throw a punch and lean back like this.
00:18:04.000
And that's the first time I've actually seen that style.
00:18:07.000
And, you know, if I didn't reach out with my right hand as far as I did, I would never have caught him with that cut.
00:18:14.000
And it was that long right hand that caught him just at the end of my punch when he leaned back and he couldn't lean back anymore that made his eye cut.
00:18:24.000
Yeah, he was a very strange fighter in terms of his style.
00:18:36.000
He was probably the biggest guy you fought, right?
00:18:59.000
He said, if you hold a guy around the neck, you can tell when he's going to move.
00:19:10.000
After the first three rounds, what people don't realize about this fight, I wasn't fighting for 12 rounds.
00:19:26.000
This is the first time you ever see me going forward in the fight.
00:19:36.000
Although he's two inches taller than you, you look bigger than him.
00:19:42.000
You know, when you look back on your career, do you have a most satisfying victory?
00:19:56.000
When a guy beats you like that, and then you know you could have beaten him or you should have beaten him, is that what bothered you so much?
00:20:05.000
No, you know what really bothered me is the fact that I gave him an opportunity.
00:20:09.000
I gave him a fight when I'm basically waiting for Tyson and I have to keep busy.
00:20:21.000
He's not one of these guys that get knocked out easy.
00:20:27.000
Box the best guy out there, not box the easy guy that's easy to get knocked out.
00:20:33.000
And then another reason, a lot of people don't know, I went to Africa to fight because Muhammad Ali went to Africa.
00:20:43.000
I say, I'm a world champion, so I need to fight all around the world.
00:20:50.000
The only thing about Africa is I didn't know that it was such a high altitude up there.
00:20:55.000
And for me to have a fight, I should have got there a lot earlier, but I was doing Ocean's Eleven at that time.
00:21:04.000
I was sitting around half the time, waiting for them to change the lights, then go out and go out there for two minutes, and then go back and sit there for another two hours while they change the lights.
00:21:13.000
Were you training at all while that was happening?
00:21:15.000
Yeah, I was training, but it wasn't the conditions of training.
00:21:36.000
Yeah, it was kind of weird because when I start working out, I was like throwing punches.
00:21:44.000
So I had to take two steps back, and I'm like, oh no, don't tell me this fight's going to be one of those fights where I have to take my time.
00:21:53.000
I realized he's dealing with the same thing I'm dealing with, although he was there a lot earlier.
00:21:58.000
But, you know, I had a couple things going wrong, boxing at four in the morning.
00:22:06.000
Then when they put the ring together, it was like...
00:22:10.000
18 by 19. And then, the punch that actually hit me, I actually thought I was going to block it, but it came around this side.
00:22:21.000
I put my hand up to block it, but it came around and hit me.
00:22:25.000
One of those things where a man threw a terrific punch, which my chin happened to be in the way of.
00:22:32.000
What is it like when that's over and you're sitting there and you know you lost, but you know that under the right circumstances this guy is not at your level?
00:22:42.000
In fact, you know, my problem was solved before I got out of the ring.
00:22:47.000
I knew what I did wrong, which was the greatest thing that ever happened to me.
00:22:52.000
On another day, he wouldn't throw a lucky punch like that.
00:22:56.000
And he wouldn't have a ref that, you know, was on his side as well.
00:23:18.000
Like, you know, if that was the ref, he would have counted him out straight away.
00:23:23.000
Probably would have stopped it at the press conference.
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00:23:24.000
That fucking 12th round, that right-left that Deontay landed, the fact that Tyson got up and then won the remainder of the round, that is crazy.
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00:23:33.000
I am so frustrated that that fight's not happening again.
0.98
00:23:36.000
Man, you know, I'm looking at the heavyweight scene and I'm looking at obviously Joshua from England.
00:23:46.000
And, you know, he had the opportunity to fight Deontay and didn't take it.
00:23:50.000
I'm like, if that was me, I would have took that chance because you never know what happens down the road like what's happening now.
00:23:56.000
And, you know, to me, he's being put on the shelf.
00:23:59.000
Now he has to box somebody that nobody really wants him to box.
00:24:07.000
You know, Big Baby Miller, I haven't seen too much of him.
00:24:10.000
I don't know too much about him, but, you know, he talks a good fight.
00:24:19.000
And, you know, now he's got an opportunity to fight Joshua, so he's taking full advantage of it like he should.
00:24:29.000
I don't see anything in his history to show me that he can beat Joshua.
00:24:43.000
Yeah, he's going to be a smart boxer in this fight.
00:24:49.000
Yeah, I mean, these are one of those things where I think this is where Anthony's got to be extra careful because Miller's going to train twice as hard and if Joshua doesn't train like he's fighting Deontay, he may take it for granted, make a mistake.
00:25:21.000
Lennox boxed this guy around the ring for 12 rounds.
00:25:23.000
Literally, the guy's head's snapping back, and this guy's not going anywhere.
00:25:30.000
That's got to be a weird feeling, too, when you know how hard you punch, and you see a guy just eating him.
00:25:41.000
I learned that some guys that are tough to the head are weak to the body.
00:25:45.000
Some guys that are tough to the body are weak to the head.
00:25:54.000
They just don't know they're supposed to feel pain.
00:25:57.000
I mean, I really think it's a physiological thing.
00:26:03.000
Sometimes, I've been in fights where I've gone and the man's hit me on the chin first couple minutes, and it's like he just glanced off my chin.
00:26:19.000
Everybody was saying, yo, did you see that punch?
00:26:22.000
And when I look at tape of it, it's like, wow, I did get hit.
00:26:26.000
Is it because, like, are there a bunch of factors?
00:26:29.000
Like how much you got hit in training, how well you feel coming into the fight, where you're at in your career?
00:26:36.000
Like, for instance, let me give you a wicked factor.
00:26:38.000
If you haven't boxed for two years, And all of a sudden you step into the ring and it's a title fight and you box.
00:26:45.000
The first good hit you get is going to concuss you.
00:26:49.000
Because you haven't been getting those hits for that two years.
00:26:52.000
Now this man hit you with the two years and you're getting used to it and you've felt it and you've gotten over it.
00:27:03.000
It is a mental hill because even for me, for me when I haven't fought for a while, you know, I go out there.
00:27:13.000
It's like, yo, this is not supposed to go like that.
00:27:21.000
So the Hasim Rahman fight, after it was over, were you worried that you were not going to get a rematch?
00:27:29.000
In fact, we chased him to three courts around the world.
00:27:36.000
And if I was in this position, I wouldn't want to fight me either because I'm coming back for revenge.
00:27:41.000
Plus, there's a big money fight out there with Tyson, which he so happened to say after the fight.
00:27:57.000
Like, why you go to Africa and not visit Mandela?
00:28:03.000
And that $7 million that he got off of Don King.
00:28:08.000
So, the fight got made again because after the third courtroom, the judge says, whose signature is this?
00:28:22.000
You signed it to give him a rematch, so you have to give him a rematch.
00:28:30.000
And there was all those brawls in the, remember the ESPN studio when him and Rachman got into a fight?
00:28:42.000
Let me tell you, it was a Steve Harvey suit, too.
00:28:53.000
If anything goes down, you got those leather shoulder shoes.
00:29:03.000
Now when you were in that time period, I don't remember, did you have fights in between?
00:29:20.000
It was, it was, because you never know if you're going to get the fight or not, or, you know, these guys are running from you, they signed to fight a rematch because, you know, now they didn't want to sign it.
00:29:31.000
I remember when I was watching it at home and I threw my arms up in the air.
0.99
00:29:38.000
That one went to sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, but it was a hammer.
1.00
00:29:43.000
I mean, for a long time coming, you're waiting for it.
00:29:48.000
You know, for this fight, Rockman couldn't catch me because my speed was different.
00:29:52.000
You know, in South Africa, it was a lot slower.
00:29:55.000
Now, he got kind of a little frustrated because he couldn't catch me.
00:30:07.000
That was probably one of the most satisfying one-punch knockouts I've ever watched.
00:30:12.000
Because I knew what you had gone through, and I knew, like, everybody knew you were one of the greatest of all time.
00:30:17.000
To have you get KO'd like that, first of all, it endeared people to you in a way because it showed your vulnerability but also your character and your ability to come back, which is not easy, man.
00:30:28.000
When you get stopped like that, psychologically, it's got to be fucking with your head.
0.95
00:30:33.000
Let me tell you, the first time I lost, everybody was coming up and shaking my hand and said, well, what are you going to do now?
0.99
00:30:39.000
I'm like, what do you mean, what am I going to do now?
00:30:46.000
You know, they didn't think it was going to be possible, but I'm thinking, Muhammad Ali gained the championship three times.
00:30:58.000
It takes a special person to do it, and I can do it.
00:31:01.000
Do you feel like there was two stages of your career, like pre-Emmanuel Stewart and post?
00:31:07.000
There's two sizes of them, too, then, if you look at it.
0.98
00:31:10.000
And seriously, he went from a skinny kid to a man, like a giant fucking man out of nowhere.
0.99
00:31:18.000
The pre-Emmanuel Stewart was obviously, you know, me learning how to be a professional, learning to fight pro.
00:31:27.000
And then once I got to Emmanuel, we just like, yo, he said, hey, you're a great fighter.
00:31:38.000
So the movement he brought back, he taught me a couple Kronk tricks, you know, that check hook and different things that the Kronk fighters do, which works well.
00:31:51.000
And what I liked about him, what he said, I can do, I could accomplish.
00:31:58.000
If he said, Len, we need to win this round, I'll win that round.
00:32:01.000
Yeah, you had that kind of relationship, right?
00:32:06.000
There's certain masters when it comes to boxing training.
00:32:10.000
When you would hear him discuss fighters, I really loved hearing him do commentary as well because he would discuss fighters and what they need to do and he was always just dead on.
00:32:27.000
So I was so excited when he started working with you because I was like, well, that's exactly what Lennox needs.
00:32:35.000
I'll do fights on HBO and they will say, oh, he's doing this.
00:32:41.000
Then Emmanuel started working for me and he's like, oh, he's doing the jab.
00:32:48.000
Anytime you go in on TV that the commentators respect, then they'll talk good about the boxer.
00:32:53.000
But if you're not a good trainer, it's like, what do they need to talk about?
0.99
00:32:56.000
They talk a lot of shit in boxing commentary.
0.99
00:32:59.000
And they let you know whose side they're on.
1.00
00:33:03.000
You could talk about how they're guiding your brain to watch the fight.
1.00
00:33:17.000
I mean, occasionally if something's egregiously bad, I'll talk about those real issues here.
0.96
00:33:34.000
There wasn't a lot of people doing it before I started doing it.
00:33:37.000
Well, it sucks for you because you're fighting with all the fighters.
00:33:40.000
It's hard when you watch a friend of yours fuck up another friend of yours.
0.98
00:33:44.000
What about a friend of yours that's doing something wrong that needs to do something right?
00:33:57.000
But, you know, people want more truth out of me.
00:33:59.000
So I try and bring it across in a soft way and not make it too harsh.
00:34:10.000
But if there's something that someone needs to work on or do, I'll try to pull them aside.
00:34:18.000
MMA fighters, I'm sure a lot like boxers, there's different kinds of humans, and some of them are just fucking wild.
00:34:25.000
And those wild ones, a lot of times they never become champion, but they're the most exciting people to watch.
00:34:32.000
Mickey Ward's fights with Arturo Gatti, they're some of the greatest, because the way they matched up, I would never want one of my friends to fight like that.
0.93
00:34:42.000
Oh my god, man, those fights were chaos, though.
0.99
00:34:44.000
Everybody knew that those guys, they're never going to beat Mayweather, they're never going to beat the best guys, but god damn, they were fun to watch.
0.96
00:34:53.000
They were like our generation's prior Arguello almost.
00:34:58.000
Except they went back and forth and back and forth, you know?
00:35:01.000
Who was it that had an arm injury and still boxed?
00:35:06.000
No, wasn't it Bernard Hopkins when he fought Antoine Echols?
00:35:20.000
It might have been against Hopkins or it was against somebody, but the guy picked him up and slammed him and he dislocated his shoulder.
00:35:27.000
And then the ref was like, should I stop the fight?
00:35:30.000
And he knocked the guy with the left hook after.
00:35:33.000
But Hopkins got slammed and they stopped the fight and then he came back and won the rematch.
00:35:39.000
Yes, but I recall the guy knocking him out in the next round with his left hand only.
00:35:46.000
It might have been Hopkins-Echols, if I'm not mistaken.
00:35:49.000
One of the hardest fights for me to watch was Hopkins versus Joe Smith.
00:35:54.000
When he got knocked out and fell out of the ropes and landed on his head.
00:35:59.000
First of all, the fact that there was no padding on the ground.
00:36:52.000
And if somebody helps you up, the fight's over.
00:36:55.000
Yeah, you get disqualified the minute somebody helps you back into the ring.
00:36:59.000
Yeah, you have to get up on your own and get back in on your own.
00:37:06.000
They could have ruined the fight for him if he was okay.
00:37:09.000
Like, if he was okay, if he fell and then someone helps him get back up.
00:37:29.000
When you see a guy like him, like, how the fuck does a guy like that defy the odds and defy time?
0.94
00:37:43.000
He's like, you know, you watch him fight, he's smart.
00:37:59.000
It's interesting that he became that way, like in his estimation, because of prison time.
00:38:05.000
Going to prison turned him into a disciplined man.
00:38:16.000
Imagine the people out there that commit a crime, spend three, four years in jail because of some stupid crime.
1.00
00:38:24.000
They could spend that time training and being a world champion.
1.00
00:38:31.000
Well, just develop, use that time to develop yourself.
00:38:36.000
I mean, when Hopkins was, they were already writing him off when he fought Felix Trinidad.
00:38:44.000
Everybody thought Trinidad was going to run him over.
0.99
00:38:46.000
Do you remember the shit he pulled in Puerto Rico?
1.00
00:38:48.000
He threw the flag and chased him to the stadium.
1.00
00:38:53.000
And he had to make that six or seven foot jump to the ground and he was scared he was going to break his leg.
00:39:05.000
I'm sure Tito had so much on his mind in that fight.
00:39:11.000
That was the mental warfare that Bernard brought into that one.
00:39:22.000
Like, Trinidad really was a lighter weight fighter than that.
00:39:36.000
And, you know, this was, I think Bernard was like 36 at the time.
00:39:40.000
Look at him, they're all swinging at him and shit.
0.98
00:39:49.000
If he turned, it would have probably went, oh, what am I doing?
00:39:54.000
You didn't chase a tiger and you catch it, you got a real fucking problem.
0.99
00:39:58.000
Did you ever have any thoughts at all once you'd finally retired?
0.99
00:40:05.000
Well, you know, I told people, like, I'll take my pajamas off for 100 mil.
00:40:26.000
You'd beat Tyson that was kind of at the end of his stage too, right?
00:40:34.000
He's coming from the same history that I'm coming from.
00:40:41.000
While he was in incarceration, I'm still out there fighting and training hard.
00:40:52.000
He's doing what he knows, not what he loves, but what he knows.
00:41:00.000
So it's like I look at old time fighters and say, what made them stay in boxing so long?
00:41:35.000
Well, there was no, I mean, you know, you had to go see it live.
00:41:39.000
You know, like, how much did you get paid for the radio?
00:41:42.000
Was it Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney that was the first million dollar gate?
00:42:01.000
When Tyson was in jail, he must have been doing something because he came out jacked.
00:42:07.000
He came out looking different than he ever looked.
00:42:12.000
When he fought Peter McNeely, he looked scary as shit.
0.99
00:42:31.000
I mean, how many dudes before it's enough, you know?
00:42:40.000
And he was so much more muscular, so he probably couldn't do any sparring.
00:42:45.000
I doubt they had a heavy bag, but they probably had a weight room, you know?
00:42:59.000
You know, somebody would have tried to start some shit with him.
0.99
00:43:06.000
I bet he had to listen to a lot of shitty things from guards.
0.83
00:43:09.000
It's funny when I seen him be arrested, taken from the courtroom, and they must have got the biggest guy they could ever get to go put handcuffs on him or something like that.
00:43:21.000
Anyway, situation that I hope a lot of people stay away from.
00:43:25.000
Yeah, when he went away, did you feel like, damn it, I'm going to miss out on that fight that I won?
00:43:32.000
He's like, oh no, I'm going to have to wait and delay my retirement.
00:43:36.000
Oh, so you were considering retirement even before he was incarcerated?
00:43:55.000
Tried to pick a fight with me the other day.
0.98
00:44:02.000
At a fight in LA, where they called all the great ones on, Jerry Cooney, me, Foreman, Spinks was there.
00:44:11.000
He wanted to stand beside me and take a picture.
00:44:31.000
The difference between a guy like you who gets out, who speaks perfect, and a guy like him, he's the warning.
00:44:43.000
I saw an interview with him, and it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen.
00:44:49.000
Because I go back and I think about those fights with Holyfield, those fucking crazy wars.
0.99
00:45:00.000
I think the good news is now we're on the other side of fighters coming out that punchy.
00:45:05.000
I think with all the rules and changes that have been made.
00:45:09.000
You won't meet as many punchy guys as you met from back in the day.
00:45:13.000
You listen to Purnell, you listen to Riddick, you listen to Meldrick Taylor.
00:45:35.000
One of the things that they say with older fighters, and even older football players, is they become addicted to alcohol because they're searching for something to try to recalibrate their brain.
00:45:50.000
People talk about people with traumatic brain injury often become alcoholics.
00:45:55.000
It's like they're trying to get some sort of a dopamine rush.
00:45:58.000
You could also use the alcohol as a justification as to why you're slurring your speech.
00:46:08.000
And this motherfucker will have one drink, and you can't understand a word he's saying.
1.00
00:46:24.000
It's the brain damage and the alcohol combined, just the wheels come off the carry.
00:47:00.000
He used to get mad at me because I'd go to his house and be like, you want to play chess?
00:47:37.000
So it really depends on what type of player they are.
00:47:43.000
He is the Joe Rogan of pool to Lennox of chess.
00:47:56.000
Lennox challenged Joe to a game of pool before the podcast.
0.90
00:47:59.000
And Joe fucking cleared the table before Lennox could get one shot off.
0.94
00:48:13.000
That's a crazy game, though, on that table, because that table has four-inch pockets.
00:48:32.000
Like, if you go to a pool hall, they'll give you a five inch pocket or a five and a half inch pocket.
00:48:47.000
So, balls don't drop unless they go right through the center.
00:48:59.000
Some guy had it in his basement forever, and my friend Donnie sold it to me.
00:49:03.000
Yeah, the guy just had it sitting in his basement.
00:49:15.000
You don't have to walk around and take the balls out of the pockets.
00:49:22.000
Yeah, those holes when you have to walk around.
00:49:27.000
But you probably have like a decorative pool table.
00:49:35.000
He's been to my house when I was with my parents.
00:49:57.000
Well, the rankings are like, if you're up to 14, you're a master.
00:50:03.000
Well, I wouldn't call me a master yet, but obviously if I get that, I'm trying to get as high as possible.
0.98
00:50:10.000
But if someone talks shit and they're like, Lennox, I want to play you some chess, you'd be like, oh, okay.
0.98
00:50:17.000
What's one of the most mentally intensive games?
00:50:19.000
It's probably one reason why you stay so sharp, I would imagine.
00:50:25.000
So you played that, where you hit the slap the clock?
00:50:29.000
10 minutes for a move or 10 minutes for the whole game?
00:50:36.000
Yeah, on the computer, once you've made that move, the time goes over.
00:50:42.000
Now, do you ever go to Washington Square Park and play those dudes?
00:50:52.000
The guy I was playing was talking a lot of shit.
1.00
00:51:10.000
When you get really good at chess, and I'm not really good at chess, but I have friends that are, they explain to you, like, it becomes your whole life.
00:51:17.000
Like, you start thinking, like, as you're walking down the street, you're thinking about chess.
00:51:55.000
I mean, those guys who are there, if you go there, they'll be there every day.
0.98
00:52:03.000
I really admire people that get really, really good at chess.
00:52:26.000
It's the European CIA. So, if you're out there and you're playing Inter 2000, you're playing Lennox motherfucking Lewis.
00:52:35.000
I was going to put my real name, but I don't want everybody to try and beat the champ.
00:52:40.000
Well, now they're going to try to beat the champ.
00:52:42.000
Let it be known that Lennox Lewis is one of those dudes that walks around with no case on his iPhone, too.
00:52:53.000
I was doing something and all of a sudden, my wife said, do this.
00:52:58.000
Yeah, but you have the biggest hands of any human being I know.
00:53:02.000
And there's no phone that's going to be big enough unless you carry an iPad with it.
00:53:06.000
Let me tell you, I don't know who makes these iPhones, but they make them to slip out of your hands.
00:53:17.000
That's the first thing I did, was put a case on.
00:53:23.000
You have to take it off to charge it up or something.
00:53:32.000
Doesn't have a thing where you can just stick a hole in it.
00:53:46.000
I like that they're doing it while we're doing the podcast live.
00:53:51.000
The wheels are spinning, the competitive drive.
00:53:53.000
Let me tell you, my wife gives me problems on this.
1.00
00:53:58.000
Women don't understand you playing chess and focusing.
1.00
00:54:01.000
I'm trying to tell her, listen, I'm up to this score point.
00:54:05.000
Don't interrupt me because it affects my score.
00:54:13.000
You know, she's looking at me weird, but she's gotten better.
00:54:30.000
Do you ever play chess with people other than Lennox?
0.96
00:54:45.000
No, this is the first time I would ever see a chess game turn into checkers.
00:54:55.000
All this coming from a man who doesn't really know how to play pool.
00:55:34.000
It's either two white balls and a red ball or two red balls and a white ball.
00:55:38.000
Or sometimes it's a yellow ball, a red ball, and a white ball.
00:55:41.000
And the idea is you make contact with one ball and then you have to hit three cushions and then make contact with the second ball.
00:55:51.000
Well, if you know how to play it, it's good to watch.
00:55:55.000
The thing about what I like about pool is I like when the balls disappear.
00:56:03.000
You sink the ball, it's got a finality to it.
1.00
00:56:13.000
It's a very intellectual game because it's all about geometry.
00:56:33.000
One thing I learned is you can't do too many things.
0.99
00:56:44.000
Yeah, we got a computer room set up in the back.
00:57:02.000
I don't know why you're playing it on a video game.
00:57:18.000
You quarter it up while it's there so you can carry it out, but you don't really like...
00:57:23.000
You want to protect the meat, so you really want to get it out of the woods first and cool it off.
00:57:40.000
Yeah, if you leave the bones behind, then nothing goes to waste in the forest.
00:57:43.000
I mean, if you shoot an animal in the forest and leave the bones behind.
00:57:58.000
Now, how do your children feel about you doing those bad things to this animal?
00:58:02.000
Listen, as big as you are, you have to eat meat.
00:58:08.000
My kids are used to it because I've been hunting since they were little.
00:58:33.000
It's like, you know, when you're cooking, it's like you're taking the meat from the butchers.
00:58:39.000
Yeah, you rinse it or put some vinegar over it and rinse it like that.
00:58:45.000
Well, when you're cooking it, you're cooking the outside, and anything that might be bacteria is going to get killed.
00:58:51.000
The real issue is when you have an animal that has parasites.
00:58:58.000
So if you're, like, cooking a deer, you don't have to worry about that, because deers are herbivores, and herbivores don't really have parasites.
00:59:04.000
But you can get—well, they can get some— There's some worms that they do get.
00:59:37.000
It's hard to find a real good Jamaican restaurant though, right?
00:59:43.000
I've been here 13 years and I can't find it in nowhere.
00:59:59.000
Maybe your standards are higher because you're actually Jamaican.
1.00
01:00:11.000
It's very important to go to Jamaica because everybody always tells you different stories and stuff, but it's a paradise over there.
01:00:23.000
I spent a long time in London, and when I left London to go to Jamaica, I was like, wow, all these different vibrant colors, even in the water, in the colors, in the trees.
01:00:47.000
You know, a lot of people do forget that you were from England, right?
01:00:51.000
And that there was a stigma with English boxers for a long time, and you broke that.
01:00:58.000
There was a stigma because I heard it was all British boxers are horizontal.
01:01:06.000
They would stand straight up, and they would have that European style.
01:01:11.000
Remember when Henry Cooper dropped Muhammad Ali, and then they cheated?
01:01:16.000
Yeah, but he was sort of one of the last great English boxers before you came along.
01:01:22.000
And then for a long time, there was guys that were pretty good, like Frank Bruno...
01:01:27.000
Pretty good, but then they would get in there with guys like Tyson, and they would always wind up losing.
01:01:31.000
So everybody had these, like, this is our guy, this is the one.
0.97
01:01:35.000
And Frank Bruno, damn did he look the part.
0.95
01:01:37.000
Was there ever a man more jacked as a heavyweight boxer than Frank Bruno?
0.98
01:01:45.000
I mean, there's never been a better built boxer ever.
0.61
01:01:49.000
Well, you'd look at Frank Bruno and you go, how does he not kill everybody?
01:01:53.000
Let me tell you, you should see Frank Bruno now.
01:02:04.000
Remember back in the day we used to think Evander, same thing.
01:02:08.000
Well, Evander, you know, people forget, he started out as cruiserweight.
01:02:18.000
I thought he won the light heavyweight title from...
01:02:26.000
That was like his big fight to prove himself as a professional.
01:02:36.000
Well, that was the American Olympic trials, right?
01:02:48.000
You gotta see him with his shirt off, he's still cut.
01:03:01.000
Go see Frank Bruno back when he was in his prime as a boxer.
01:03:22.000
He was such a crazy fighter because he would pull his shorts up to like here, right?
01:03:29.000
And he was super wide and he would fight with that Philly shell and come in real low.
0.96
01:03:40.000
Now when you watch boxing today, who really stands out to you?
01:03:45.000
You know, all the champions right now, they didn't get to be champions for no reason.
01:03:49.000
And, you know, each one of them have different qualities.
01:03:57.000
All the heavyweights, the top three heavyweights right now, they're all over six feet five.
01:04:03.000
And they all have a different style, which is good because, you know, it reminds me of when me and Holyfield and Tyson were around.
01:04:08.000
We all had different styles, which makes great fights.
01:04:11.000
Now it's to guess which style is going to beat which style.
01:04:16.000
You know, all three of them have knockout potential and, you know, they're boxing to win.
01:04:22.000
So what we want to see, we want to see who would win out of them.
01:04:26.000
Deontay Wilder, to me, is the most perplexing because he hits so hard.
01:04:35.000
He makes guys fly across the ring, and he's only 209 pounds.
01:04:42.000
Well, you know, he made the Olympic team and won a bronze medal a year and a half into boxing.
01:04:49.000
My problem with the new division is that they don't have the amateur pedigree, but maybe they don't need it.
01:04:57.000
Ortiz is great, but Ortiz is much older than he says he is.
01:05:05.000
I'm hearing stories that Ortiz is like 49. How do you know?
01:05:10.000
I remember seeing him in the amateurs in the 80s, and they're like, what?
01:05:13.000
They always say that about Cubans, though.
1.00
01:05:15.000
They say that same shit about Yoel Romero.
0.99
01:05:19.000
He just fought on the weekend, or two weeks ago, right?
01:05:29.000
He just fought like last weekend or two weeks ago.
01:05:40.000
Like how active do you think a boxer should be?
01:05:44.000
What really comes down to, you know, this is how it goes.
01:05:48.000
If you're starting boxing, obviously you want to have as many fights as possible to, you know, get that experience level.
01:05:56.000
So as much as possible, it's usually four fights a year.
01:06:01.000
And then as you get better, it drops to three fights.
01:06:04.000
And then when you're the champion, it drops to two fights.
01:06:11.000
You can't, like for instance, how many fights did Deontay have this year?
01:06:17.000
You know, before when he was starting out, he would have like three to four.
01:06:21.000
Yeah, he's very angry that this rematch is not happening.
01:06:30.000
And it's a big deal because, you know, talking about chess match, I think he's pulled off the greatest chess match move there is.
01:06:50.000
Now, he's put himself right up with all three of them on the same line to me.
01:06:59.000
People want to see Deontay and they want to see Tyson Fury again because the first fight was exciting.
01:07:16.000
Especially after that fight, because it was such a spectacular fight.
01:07:25.000
So the fact that he rose like Lazarus, I mean, it was crazy.
01:07:31.000
He gets tagged a few times and starts boxing and then even tag Deontay.
01:07:42.000
Both guys looked great and boxed well and made an exciting fight.
01:07:47.000
The rematch, obviously everybody wants to see the rematch again.
01:07:51.000
So when the rematch happened, that put Anthony Joshua on the shelf, in my eyes.
01:07:57.000
Now, it's put him on the shelf a bit longer with this ESPN deal.
01:08:03.000
And, you know, Tyson Fury's boxing in front of the public.
01:08:09.000
Anthony Joshua and Deontay, they're pay-per-view.
01:08:22.000
It's a great move, but the first fight, the fight ended in a draw, right?
01:08:26.000
So in the draw, Deontay keeps the title, but at least Tyson walks away saying, look, I won the decision.
01:08:45.000
That's the thing, they can all lose to somebody.
01:08:47.000
You know, while they're mucking around saying, oh, I'll fight this or I won't fight until next year, somebody might lose.
01:08:54.000
And now none of them can fight each other because if Joshua fights Fury and loses to Fury, Joshua's star goes down.
01:09:01.000
If Joshua fights Deontay and beats Deontay, the Tyson-Deontay fight's not that exciting.
01:09:06.000
Right, but if Joshua wants real respect, he's got to fight either Fury or Deontay.
01:09:25.000
Well, that was what showed how goddamn powerful Deontay is.
0.99
01:09:35.000
But I remember when he caught him, I was like, God, that guy, even late in the fight, that guy carries that power.
01:09:45.000
He's a good fighter, but give him like 10 years, and he would have beat these guys.
01:09:55.000
But right now, he's obviously older, and he's an old fighter.
01:10:01.000
Yeah, well, they caught him doing some steroids.
01:10:03.000
A lot of times, guys get older, they try to juice up the old body.
01:10:08.000
Yeah, so, you know, when you reach that point where you need steroids, mentally it affects you.
01:10:13.000
You know, you go into the ring and it's like, you know, you're missing something.
01:10:16.000
Something that was there in the past and it made you feel good.
01:10:22.000
When you were fighting, did anybody that you were fighting, did you suspect that they were on something?
01:10:29.000
But the good thing is that I know is I realize steroids...
01:10:40.000
So you can take as much steroids as you want, but I'm going to hit you on the chin.
1.00
01:10:46.000
And then, you know, these body punches, you can't protect around here.
01:10:52.000
So that's where, you know, when you're hitting guys around here, body punches and you hit them on the chin, doesn't matter.
01:11:01.000
But don't you think that it makes them stronger physically, gives them more vitality, might make them able to absorb more punishment?
01:11:11.000
Who'd you suspect was on something when you fought him?
01:11:20.000
Evander was the first guy, as far as I'm concerned, was the first guy on steroids back in the day.
0.95
01:11:25.000
You look at the fucking size of that guy in the late 90s, especially when he fought Lennox.
0.75
01:11:30.000
Have you ever asked him if he's been on steroids?
0.99
01:11:35.000
I might have met your victory party 20 years ago.
01:11:37.000
He did hang around with the guys that were, like, into it.
01:11:40.000
Yeah, that Mark, whatever his name was, he was the first guy to have, like, a strength and conditioning coach and all that kind of stuff, a dietitian.
01:11:54.000
Mackie Shilstone got him in shape for Larry when he was coming up from light heavyweight.
01:12:00.000
It was really interesting because at the time, the conventional wisdom was that boxers should not lift weights.
01:12:11.000
But really, he was only about 200, 205 pounds when he first fought as a heavier.
01:12:36.000
But it's also possible to get that big with steroids.
01:12:44.000
The good stuff wasn't available back then, was it?
01:12:49.000
Those Russians had everything back then, man.
0.92
01:12:51.000
I mean, the Eastern Bloc women, they made world records.
0.99
01:12:58.000
Yeah, but you can't call them women if they had mustaches.
1.00
01:13:04.000
They set records that still to this day haven't been broken.
1.00
01:13:10.000
I mean, they were women with massive amounts of male hormones in their body.
1.00
01:13:22.000
And she was also someone that was accused of doing things.
01:13:27.000
Track and field, according to Victor Conte, who was the Balco guy.
01:13:33.000
He was the guy that got the clear to Barry Bonds and all those guys.
01:13:48.000
You got Carl Lewis trying to call out Usain Bolt now, right?
0.96
01:14:01.000
Well, that's like when Lance Armstrong won the Tour de France and they took his title away.
0.98
01:14:06.000
If you had to give that title to someone who didn't test positive for anything, you had to go back to 18th place.
01:14:18.000
He goes, our psycho was better than your psycho.
1.00
01:14:23.000
He was just better at doing that sport while being dirty.
01:14:33.000
So is it still cheating if everybody's doing it?
01:14:43.000
See, you know, they went after the wrong thing.
01:14:45.000
You know, people are looking for drugs to help them get stronger.
01:14:49.000
When it's natural food that makes you stronger.
01:15:11.000
Like, guys like Lance Armstrong, I mean, they proved it.
01:15:13.000
You almost can't do Tour de France the way they were doing it without some sort of chemical help.
01:15:22.000
They say it's actually better for your body to be on steroids while you're doing something like the Tour de France because you give your body a chance to recover because they're doing so much work over the course of this race that without having some sort of chemical enhancement of your ability to recover,
01:15:39.000
you're just not going to be able to do it healthy.
01:15:43.000
You get that rhabdomyelosis that those CrossFit people get, you know, that's when your body starts breaking down muscle tissue and it becomes toxic.
01:15:54.000
They work out so hard that people have died of it.
01:16:02.000
You overtrain, which is a big issue with fighters, right?
01:16:06.000
Some fighters can train too much, and a good trainer knows how to pull you back so that you're peaking when you get into the ring.
01:16:13.000
But sometimes people are so mentally strong, they push themselves through even when they're exhausted because they think that's the way to victory.
01:16:23.000
Yeah, your piss comes out looking like Coke.
0.98
01:16:30.000
Yeah, that's a sign that your body's breaking down.
01:16:36.000
Your proteins in your body are breaking down and your body is getting poisoned by it.
01:16:47.000
Do you take a rest, a leave of absence, or do you go see the doctor and they can give you some pills to put more things that you need in your system?
01:16:56.000
I think you have to go to the doctor almost immediately.
01:16:58.000
I think they have to do IV. You pretty much, your body goes septic on you, right?
01:17:03.000
And a lot of these CrossFit people, you know, because it's a competition, and you're competing against all these other people, and you're doing these massive repetitions, and some of them, they're not really conditioned for it yet.
0.97
01:17:12.000
So their body's just, the muscle's not really acclimated to this kind of workload, and this shit starts breaking down.
0.98
01:17:41.000
I ran 10 miles and I woke up and took a shower.
01:17:52.000
You know, he used to do this shit to me back in the day.
0.99
01:17:54.000
I'd be at his house and I was like, I'm in his basement.
0.99
01:17:59.000
I go, Len, I got to go outside and close my sunroof.
01:18:03.000
I go, Len, let me just go close my fucking sunroof.
0.99
01:18:06.000
I was like, hold on, let me just tell you a story.
0.99
01:18:08.000
And I'm like, dude, it's raining and my sunroof is open.
0.99
01:18:11.000
Are you going to pay for my fucking car to get fixed?
0.99
01:18:19.000
And he goes, he's trying to get out this window and I'm pulling his leg and I'm pulling his leg and I go, and he goes, this is the way I'm pulling your leg right now.
1.00
01:18:37.000
If I stand up, I can put both my hands on the ground like that.
01:18:45.000
You got to move your bum cheeks a little back, and that helps you get down a little more.
0.89
01:18:53.000
After a couple days, it's like, you know, I'm walking around saying I hurt myself, and he goes, yoga?
01:19:00.000
I'm like, I didn't know you can hurt yourself in yoga.
01:19:03.000
Yeah, my doctor told me a lot of people come to him with injuries, back injuries from yoga.
01:19:07.000
What is that, mentally saying that you can do it when your body's saying you can't?
01:19:35.000
And also, there's a Harvard study that's going on right now where they're trying to find out if there's the same benefits that you get from the sauna you get from doing hot yoga.
01:19:42.000
When your body gets really overheated like that, it produces heat shock proteins and it alleviates a lot of inflammation in the body.
01:19:55.000
Your body, you get in there, your body's like, what the fuck is this?
0.90
01:19:58.000
And so it produces these cytokines, these heat shock proteins, and it's fantastic for people just for overall issues.
0.78
01:20:04.000
Yeah, my hands don't hurt when I'm in the sauna.
01:20:12.000
Especially because you're doing jujitsu now, you know, after training.
01:20:32.000
Epsom salt, your body absorbs magnesium through your skin.
01:20:35.000
It's one of the best ways for your body to get magnesium is actually through Epsom salts.
01:20:46.000
It's a tank of water that's heated to 94 degrees, which is like the surface of your skin, and there's 1,000 pounds of Epsom salts in there.
01:20:56.000
Half your body is above the water, and then you close the door.
01:20:59.000
Total silence, total darkness, and it feels like you're flying through space.
01:21:05.000
You've been telling me about this one for years.
01:21:09.000
But isn't it kind of gross to sit in somebody else's?
01:21:20.000
It's like there's got a commercial filtration system.
01:21:22.000
I can just drop in and be like, John, I'm just going to go float.
01:21:24.000
Just text me and I'll have Jeff come by and open it up for you.
01:21:34.000
Everything floats, so anything that's in there will be floating.
01:21:40.000
There's an ozone system that purifies the water.
01:21:42.000
It goes through this commercial filtration system.
01:21:47.000
Because they've started these flotation tank centers now.
01:21:51.000
You were talking about this for the past 10 years.
01:21:54.000
I had one in 2002. I remember when I went to your house back in the day, when you were doing this podcast out of the house.
01:22:07.000
There's a place down the street from here, about a couple miles away.
01:22:12.000
I thought you would have had one of those, too.
0.99
01:22:13.000
No, that's like you have to get nitrogen tanks and shit.
0.96
01:22:20.000
Some shit going wrong and you're getting maimed.
0.99
01:22:32.000
You know, people always say I've got unusual opinions.
01:22:38.000
They've never heard that before or never heard it put that way.
01:22:41.000
So, you know, I can give you from a fighter's point of view.
01:22:45.000
I've been in boxing for so long, there's different experiences that I've gone through, so I'm happy to share them.
01:22:51.000
But you don't ever work out boxing-wise anymore?
01:23:01.000
So anytime we get a chance, I'm always training him.
01:23:12.000
Tyson's son was saying that he wants a box too.
01:23:17.000
But he's also saying, listen, you grew up soft.
01:23:20.000
And he's saying, you don't want to meet someone like me.
01:23:27.000
He's saying, like, you don't want to meet some animal like me.
01:23:30.000
You know, like, when he was fighting, like, he thinks of what he would have done to his own son.
01:23:37.000
And his son Miguel's a really talented kid, like, musician-wise.
01:23:40.000
He can play, like, seven different instruments.
01:23:45.000
The kid's really, and he's a really smart, nice kid.
01:23:52.000
Oh, I think people mistake Tyson for being a dummy.
0.52
01:23:57.000
Boxing is, in at least some levels, a very, very intellectual pursuit.
01:24:03.000
You have to have a strong mind to be able to dodge those punches, get in and get yours in.
01:24:13.000
The problem is another man who's the same weight as you, the same size as you.
01:24:17.000
He's got gloves on just like you do and he's trying to do what you're trying to do to him.
01:24:27.000
They think just because someone doesn't have the best vocabulary or because they don't have a comprehensive education that they're not intelligent.
01:24:39.000
I remember going to the Catskills when I was I won the World Junior Championships in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic.
01:24:47.000
And I remember the American team was saying, oh, well, you never fought the best.
01:24:55.000
Yeah, but one guy, he doesn't like taking plans and his managers don't like taking plans either.
01:25:01.000
And they told me it was Mike Tyson, custom model.
01:25:04.000
So me and my trainer, we left Canada and we drove all the way up there.
01:25:08.000
And while we were up there, Razor Roddick was up there and they said, oh, Razor Roddick came, didn't spy with us.
01:25:18.000
So first time Tyson actually met me, You know, he was a nice guy, really nice guy.
01:25:24.000
He took me in his room, showed me some old flicks that I've never seen before of old-time fighters who would tell me about each fighter like he studied them.
01:25:33.000
And then, you know, this is where he got his style of fighting from.
01:25:39.000
And first day in the gym, Bell went, he came across, and he was trying to kill me.
01:25:46.000
Like, you know, I did my Muhammad Ali thing, obviously stayed away from his power, but the first day was really hectic, and then the second day was a little hectic, and it got better as it went along.
0.78
01:25:56.000
And the last day is, I got actually the better of him the last day, and I remember Customato saying, Mike, you're going to meet him someday, don't you do that!
01:26:06.000
And that always echoed in my mind that, will we ever fight?
01:26:11.000
Because Customato said that we're going to fight.
01:26:40.000
No, because it was 84. It was before the Empire State Games and everything.
01:26:43.000
You went up there before you went to the 84 Olympics.
01:26:47.000
Well, it must have been crazy, though, knowing that you guys were going to be a part of boxing history, knowing that all the way back then, being a teenager, and standing in front and hearing Customato scream that out.
01:27:02.000
It was intense because Kosta Mata wasn't that loud.
01:27:06.000
When all of a sudden he became loud, it was like everybody listened.
01:27:12.000
And then there's certain ways that you get across to people and some people, you have to shout at them.
01:27:17.000
Did you ever wish that you fought him in his prime?
01:27:23.000
And, you know, when you say prime, I was in my prime, too.
01:27:29.000
But I feel like his enthusiasm had waned before then, you know?
01:27:38.000
How I look at that whole thing is Mike Tyson was an early bloomer.
01:27:44.000
So when both of us meet, there's never a perfect time.
01:27:49.000
Perfect time for us is when we meet in the middle.
01:27:52.000
And if he won, maybe people would look at it differently.
01:27:55.000
It's because you beat him and beat him so soundly that people look at it like maybe his time had already been gone.
01:28:01.000
Yeah, Lennox turned pro after Mike had already had a defeat.
01:28:06.000
Mike's turned pro in 89. Wow, I never even thought of that.
01:28:10.000
Mike lost in January of 89. Yeah, this is us up in Catskills.
01:28:34.000
And Teddy Atlas used to take Mike to these smokers when he was 13. And Teddy was joking around about it.
01:28:39.000
He said, everybody always lied about how old people were.
01:28:41.000
They would tell you the kid was 16 and really he was 20. They always did that.
01:28:53.000
He's like, I'm telling you, he's fucking 13. What do you want?
1.00
01:28:58.000
So, you know, nobody would believe it because he was such a specimen.
01:29:13.000
Like, how could you tell him what to do back then?
01:29:19.000
And this is one of the things that we discussed on the podcast was that he was a 12-year-old, 13-year-old boy, and he was getting hypnotized.
01:29:29.000
And all of a sudden, he's getting love and attention for something.
01:29:35.000
Who was telling him, you're going to be a great fighter.
01:29:39.000
And he would hypnotize him, saying, you don't exist.
01:29:43.000
You're going to work the body and destroy this man.
0.99
01:29:46.000
And he would put these thoughts in his head, and Mike couldn't wait to just get out there and fuck people up, because that's where he got the love.
0.99
01:29:56.000
He didn't have time to work with him, because he was on his way out.
01:30:06.000
He never taught him how to understand that there's going to be a lot of shit coming your way.
0.99
01:30:13.000
Don't get wrapped up in Hollywood and, you know, he wound up marrying Robin Givens and, you know, all that.
1.00
01:30:19.000
I don't think Cuss foresaw all that other bullshit.
1.00
01:30:22.000
No, if Cuss was around, Mike would be totally different.
01:30:28.000
Even if Jimmy Jacobs had lasted another five years.
01:30:31.000
It would have helped, but I mean, it's like once removed from Cuss.
01:30:35.000
It's like Kevin Rooney was once removed from Cuss, right?
01:30:38.000
And then Teddy Atlas was way more of a hardliner.
0.99
01:30:42.000
You know, Teddy Atlas you couldn't put any bullshit with.
0.99
01:30:44.000
And those other guys, you just got to go, ah.
0.97
01:30:46.000
Then you got to Aaron Snowell and all those guys that were with him.
01:30:50.000
They could have never brought Mike to the dance.
01:30:55.000
They got there when he was already at the dance, and they're just trying to maintain things, and he's not listening to anybody.
01:31:01.000
They also weren't boxing people, as far as I was concerned.
01:31:04.000
When he was up with Cus, he was in a good situation.
01:31:10.000
You know, there was a lady in the house cooking meals.
1.00
01:31:13.000
They had Cus there being a father figure, talked to him every day.
01:31:18.000
They need that, you know, to be spoken with by older people.
01:31:24.000
And, you know, a lot of young people nowadays are not even respecting the older people, but they can gain a lot of information from an older person.
01:31:32.000
Well, you know, you hear from an older person, it kind of makes your mind think and say, you know, you're right.
01:31:38.000
So anytime I get a chance to talk to kids about, you know, their life and where they're going, always take that opportunity.
0.98
01:31:44.000
Well, you're such a great example of a guy who has done incredible things, but you've come out on the other end with wisdom and lessons and honesty, and you can talk about things and people will listen to you in a way that, you know, a lot of kids, they don't want to listen to someone who ain't done shit.
0.98
01:32:01.000
You talk to some guy who's just some boring dude who wants to give you advice, like, hey, fuckface, how about get your own shit together?
0.99
01:32:09.000
But when you're Lennox Lewis and you talk to a kid, they go, oh, okay.
1.00
01:32:13.000
You know, chess master, world heavyweight champion.
01:32:41.000
You know, I was going through that and I liked how he dealt with it.
01:32:44.000
You know, it's like this is what's missing nowadays.
01:32:48.000
The relationship with kids, you know, talking to them.
01:32:56.000
Yeah, and then have some place where they can go.
01:32:59.000
And then have something that gives them a sense of value, you know.
01:33:30.000
Now they've run half a mile, didn't make the mile, but the next day they want to try the mile.
01:33:35.000
And it shows them that if you keep working at something, you'll accomplish it.
01:33:41.000
All of a sudden you tried it and it's like, oh no, it's not for me.
01:33:45.000
You don't know it's not for you until you keep trying it and then realize it's not for you or for you.
01:33:51.000
What are you going to do if your son wants to fight?
01:33:55.000
Yeah, I think your perspective would be very different than Mike's.
01:33:58.000
Yeah, for me, you know, I'm not forcing my son to box, but if he wants to try it, let him try it.
01:34:05.000
His father used to box, so why not try something his father did?
01:34:18.000
You know, all my kids are talented, and I see the drive in them that I have and their mother has, so I know that they're going to be successful.
01:34:27.000
They're basically, I'm trying to help them to become successful in the future and give them the tools to become successful in the future as well.
01:34:38.000
Yeah, I mean, you know, and young women too.
0.93
01:34:41.000
Yeah, well, what a great situation to be your son, you know what I mean?
01:34:46.000
But I mean, to be your son, if you really do have a desire to box, would you start training him?
01:35:00.000
I was talking to George Foreman the other day, and one of his daughters were fighting.
01:35:20.000
I'm watching her fight and I'm like, George, you need to tell her some stuff.
01:35:25.000
I know there's some good things you can tell her or even get her a proper coach or, you know, help her.
01:35:34.000
But if you don't want her to fight and she's fighting, you're not going to help her.
01:35:41.000
My approach to raising kids is I don't have any input onto what they do.
01:35:48.000
I would never tell my kid, I don't want you to do that.
01:35:56.000
I'll talk to them about what they're doing if I can.
01:35:59.000
But they also have to go out and do it themselves.
01:36:08.000
I try to convince my daughter to want to do jiu-jitsu.
01:36:11.000
I said, sweetheart, I'll get you a pink gi if you want.
01:36:16.000
My middle daughter was doing jiu-jitsu and my youngest daughter was doing MMA. But she got bored with it after a while.
01:36:27.000
I kind of whisper to my son right now, you need to do some wrestling.
01:36:34.000
Do you think you'd fight MMA? I don't know what the future holds.
01:36:40.000
He may fight MMA. Listen, if he's going to fight, he should box.
01:36:50.000
You know, if you're a heavyweight MMA fan, you can make a lot of money.
01:36:54.000
It's like, if you met Lennox's brother, Dennis, they're nothing alike.
01:36:58.000
I mean, you'd have a goddamn chance of being anything but a heavyweight.
0.97
01:37:02.000
It's like a child holding a fist up to a man.
0.99
01:37:04.000
Yeah, I have a pretty big fist, but yours are gigantic, man.
01:37:14.000
Listen, he's six foot, and he wears size 15 shoes.
01:37:21.000
You just keep a pair of his shoes by the front door.
01:37:35.000
You think about how much protein children have now.
01:37:38.000
Have you ever go back and look at how big men were during the Civil War period?
01:37:44.000
They were tiny little people because nobody had good food.
01:37:54.000
Those skinny, rickety looking people just starving to death.
01:37:59.000
Oh yeah, they're up in the early in the morning working.
01:38:04.000
But now today, kids are getting massive amounts of protein and they get vitamins and vegetables and drinking...
01:38:17.000
But I just think it's just an abundance of nutrition.
01:38:19.000
I mean, when people were smaller, a lot of it was because of malnutrition.
01:38:25.000
Like, a lot of Japanese folks used to be much smaller.
1.00
01:38:29.000
You're getting some really big Japanese fighters.
0.97
01:38:40.000
I was listening to you about something about Martians the other day.
01:38:48.000
Oh my god, I saw an amazing NASA shirt I was going to buy for Eddie the other day.
0.99
01:38:51.000
Yeah, Alex wore a NASA shirt just to fuck with Eddie.
0.99
01:38:54.000
Yeah, Eddie believes shit that even Alex thinks is ridiculous.
0.99
01:38:58.000
Like, what conspiracy theories do you want to know about?
0.99
01:39:03.000
Well, I believe less and less than I ever used to.
01:39:09.000
I don't believe there's any concerted effort where there's a bunch of really rich people that have decided to euthanize a bunch of people to keep the population low.
01:39:24.000
There's probably some people that go, you know what?
01:39:26.000
We would be a lot healthier if there was less people.
01:39:34.000
Imagine if you were the all-powerful, all-knowing people that are running the world, and you're doing such a shitty job of population control.
0.99
01:39:40.000
Yeah, I don't know how you're going to control India and China.
01:39:43.000
You're not getting in these fucking dirty villages and trying to stop people.
1.00
01:39:47.000
Even in this country, people are fucking like wild animals and just shooting out kids.
0.99
01:39:53.000
Yeah, like, look, it's just the way it is, man.
1.00
01:40:00.000
They lifted that because a lot of people were drowning their daughters.
1.00
01:40:16.000
And to me, a daughter's a win because they're so much easier to deal with.
0.77
01:40:30.000
I got little Joseph Lennox Lewis Peters coming next month.
01:40:40.000
I was going to give him your middle name, but I didn't want to do that to him.
01:40:53.000
Hey, man, I know you're supposed to get out of here at 2 o'clock.
01:41:03.000
I think there's definitely some people that are influencing the way the world works, for sure.
01:41:08.000
But I don't think there's anybody that's really trying to control population or euthanize.
01:41:15.000
Do you think the Russians put Donald Trump in the president's chair?
01:41:20.000
I think the Russians absolutely wanted Donald Trump to win.
01:41:24.000
And I think they definitely undermined our democracy through various methods of manipulating people through social media.
01:41:31.000
In fact, I have a woman coming on very soon.
0.98
01:42:12.000
They organized one pro-Texas meeting across the street from a pro-Muslim meeting.
01:42:18.000
They did it all through Facebook to get these people to fight with each other.
01:42:21.000
They're doing these things to try to get people to take sides and to get people to be angry at the other side.
0.98
01:42:28.000
They did a lot of shit like that, real sneaky, sneaky stuff that we probably do in foreign countries all the time.
1.00
01:42:34.000
And we're mad that they're doing it to us because now they're doing it through social media.
0.99
01:42:38.000
Well, if you think about when we were growing up in the 80s, 70s and 80s, all the imagery we saw of the USSR was very dark and gray and it was very barren and it was destitute.
01:42:52.000
And then all of a sudden that lifts and these hot fucking Russian chicks show up.
1.00
01:42:55.000
I'm like, what were these bitches this whole time?
1.00
01:43:04.000
They're some of the hottest women on the planet.
1.00
01:43:05.000
Yeah, they used to show us these big manly women.
1.00
01:43:13.000
Yeah, I have two friends that are married to Russian ladies.
01:43:17.000
Now, the question, because you're American and everything, I'm not American, so is this wall ever going to get built or what's the situation?
01:43:27.000
I think it was more of a campaign rhetoric thing, you know, build that wall, build that wall.
01:43:34.000
So he's kind of staying with it to keep his supporters?
01:43:37.000
Yeah, I think he's got to kind of do something, right?
01:43:39.000
Once you say that you're going to build a wall, you've got to kind of do something.
0.97
01:43:44.000
I mean, we're two years into the president, they haven't built shit.
0.99
01:43:46.000
What, there's a year left and a year and a half left left?
0.99
01:43:50.000
There's some wall that's up, but there's also some big-ass gaps.
01:43:53.000
And the idea that they're going to stop drugs from coming over from that wall is crazy.
01:43:57.000
Right now the wall looks like Leon Spinks' mouth.
01:44:07.000
But when Muhammad Ali lost to Leon Spinks, and then there was a rematch.
01:44:16.000
People forget that Ali wasn't just a great boxer and a heavyweight champion of the world.
01:44:22.000
He represented people that were against the war.
01:44:25.000
He represented people that were against all of the discrimination.
01:44:55.000
He could have got a cushy job like Elvis or some shit.
0.97
01:44:59.000
And they would have had him go over there just to make it look like he was doing something.
0.99
01:45:07.000
My parents, who were hippies, wanted him to win.
0.98
01:45:11.000
I mean, my mom didn't give a fuck about boxing.
1.00
01:45:17.000
I remember watching this on TV thinking, this is crazy.
01:45:19.000
My parents want to watch a boxing match because of what he stands for.
01:45:25.000
My dad felt that way about Joe Lewis and Robinson.
01:45:32.000
He was beating Max Schmeling for the world.
1.00
01:45:35.000
I feel terrible for Max Schmeling because he was probably just caught up in all that shit.
0.99
01:45:55.000
Can you imagine what that guy must have experienced?
1.00
01:46:02.000
My favorite one, there's a meme, a photo of him in his car.
01:46:11.000
Yeah, he got pulled over going 50. He had to give the guy $50.
01:46:17.000
He goes, I'm going to be coming back later that night.
1.00
01:46:21.000
Then there's the story of him getting in a taxi, getting in the backseat of the taxi, and the guy goes, I don't drive Nigers.
1.00
01:46:28.000
And he reached over, pulled the guy into the backseat, got in the front, drove himself to where he had to get to.
01:46:56.000
GQ magazine rated him as best-dressed athlete of the century in 2000. That's the wrong century.
01:47:12.000
Well, I don't think any of us could even imagine what it must have been like when he won the title and the kind of hate that he got.
01:47:20.000
All the people that wanted him to be killed.
1.00
01:47:24.000
He would hit you, see your knees buckle, and hold you up.
1.00
01:47:37.000
Did you ever see his fight with Stanley Ketchel?
01:47:59.000
Yeah, what you guys don't realize, I was going to say, the little gloves, horse hair...
01:48:05.000
You break your fucking hands real easy, too, and MMA fighters...
0.99
01:48:16.000
You can open up with boxing and not even worry as much about what you're hitting.
01:48:20.000
You cannot do that if you're fighting bare knuckle.
01:48:26.000
I was just going to say, what is this bare-knuckle resurgence?
01:48:46.000
The rugby guys are tougher than the football players.
01:49:20.000
What about 1FC? What's this guy knocking at the door?
01:49:44.000
Once you're enjoying this meal, you just want to finish it.
01:49:59.000
You couldn't promote a fart at a bean-eating contest.
01:50:13.000
I'm going to put some two-way glass there where we can see out and they can't see in.
01:50:56.000
Tell me, I'll tell you anything about the heavyweights.
01:51:17.000
Every time Sean Porter fights, he's always a serious brawl.
01:51:23.000
You know, this guy reminds me of the old time fighters, the way this guy fights.
01:51:30.000
Somebody needs to help him tie his tie, though.
0.98
01:51:32.000
He doesn't mind taking the shot to punch you, so he mixes it up.
01:51:41.000
Yeah, there's a lot of great fights coming out.
01:51:43.000
Mikey Garcia, Earl Spence Jr. Excited about that.
01:51:52.000
It's a great fight, but I like Mikey Garcia, but to me it's like...
01:51:58.000
I think Mikey's plus in this fight is that Spence hasn't had pressure like this and Mikey doesn't tank out on anybody.
01:52:05.000
He does not gas out and he's not afraid to mix it up with you.
01:52:11.000
It's the size difference, the weight difference.
01:52:13.000
I mean, I would have preferred Mikey had one more fight before he fought Spence, but they know what they're doing.
01:52:19.000
He's whole family's boxing specialists, you know.
01:52:24.000
I've trained with his brother before, with Robert.
01:52:35.000
Lomachenko was there training the day I went.
0.99
01:52:37.000
Teddy's up there right now working with that light heavyweight Russian character.
0.99
01:52:46.000
I trained over at Goosen's gym over the Christmas holidays.
01:53:17.000
Because he knew I used to train back in the day, so I was like, I want it to look good, and I'm like, ah.
01:53:25.000
See, this is where the martial arts comes in, buddy.
01:53:28.000
Get this thing of sand, and you just start punching it.
01:53:38.000
When I say my hands hurt, I meant like the joints.
01:53:47.000
That apparently is very good for your hands.
0.69
01:53:50.000
I did that, but my mom got mad I was fucking up her rice.
0.79
01:54:04.000
If you just get back to doing it, it'll come back to you.
01:54:09.000
I'm just like, I'm going to stick with jiu-jitsu.
01:54:18.000
They got these little finger guards that actually help.
01:54:27.000
It's just like a little cut off glove for your fingers.
01:54:35.000
Not necessarily, but it just keeps your fingers together.
0.90
01:54:38.000
It keeps them from separating so you don't fucking pop your finger out.
0.99
01:54:41.000
That's probably good if you're a guitarist or some shit, huh?
0.99
01:54:54.000
Yeah, but you're also fucking gorilla strong.
1.00
01:54:58.000
Because it's like playing with a fucking silverback gorilla.
0.99
01:55:03.000
Even when I watched you roll with Jean-Jacques that day, I was like, you want to roll?
0.99
01:55:13.000
I started jujitsu in 96. We're rolling tomorrow, right?
01:55:17.000
We're going to probably roll around 8.30 in the morning if that's cool with you.
01:55:26.000
Depending upon whether or not you use the gi, the gi is a big factor because you can grab a hold of that.
01:55:31.000
It makes you more defensive minded because you can get caught in things.
01:55:40.000
I have a black belt no gi jujitsu and gi jujitsu.
01:56:26.000
Older dudes in particular, they seem to like the gi because they can kind of control you.
1.00
01:56:31.000
It's good for you and it could also be used against you, which is bad.
01:56:37.000
Like I always said, the worst thing to do is get in a fight with a judo black belt when you've got a winter coat on.
01:57:00.000
I go, dude, I'm trying to train more so I can get a stripe.
01:57:03.000
I go, well, I got to fucking train more so I can get the stripe.
0.96
01:57:08.000
Are you doing things other than your jujitsu training in terms of like physical training?
01:57:19.000
Think about your body as like a race car, right?
01:57:22.000
If you could just lift weights and your race car would go faster, wouldn't you do that?
01:57:27.000
If there was a thing you could do, you could make your race car?
0.97
01:57:29.000
I do my little dumbbells, but my elbow fucking hurts lately, so I quit being a baby.
0.89
01:57:40.000
You hold it like that, like you twist it, like this, and then you untwist it with your arm.
01:57:46.000
So you hold it like this, twist, and then untwist it.
01:57:50.000
You do it slowly, and it works on these tendons, the same tendons that you get.
0.99
01:57:54.000
But it's just so shitty how I got it from fucking sleeping.
0.91
01:58:08.000
And then level it out and then slowly untwist it.
01:58:22.000
It specifically works this part of your arm, like down in here.
0.98
01:58:26.000
Now you just look like you're jerking off, Len.
0.98
01:58:34.000
You know, like when you have one of those cords.
01:58:35.000
No, a cord with like a weight at the bottom of it, and you've got to roll it with your wrists.
0.56
01:58:39.000
Oh, yeah, we used to do that in boxing back in the day.
01:59:07.000
You don't have a certain amount of angles you can punch from.
01:59:09.000
Whereas jiu-jitsu, there's an endless combination of transitions.
01:59:13.000
You get some time to think in certain positions.
01:59:22.000
That's what he did to that dude in the jewelry shop.
01:59:27.000
He did something to me and I realized, okay, I gotta watch out for that.
01:59:32.000
It's where a person manipulates your bone and then drops their whole weight on it.
0.99
01:59:37.000
Yeah, that shit could break your hand too.
0.99
01:59:40.000
If you don't go with it, it'll break your hand.
1.00
01:59:45.000
Yeah, Marcelo Garcia has tapped people out, like high-level people with wrist locks in jiu-jitsu tournaments.
1.00
01:59:50.000
Yeah, John Jack was showing me how to wrist lock a guy while you're done.
0.99
01:59:58.000
The thing is, there's no end to jiu-jitsu.
0.99
02:00:02.000
And yeah, there's no like, these are all the moves and that's it.
02:00:07.000
I just found out a new move yesterday when Rubber Guard Assassins on Instagram, they figured out some crazy Kimura you do from a closed guard that leads to a triangle.
02:00:19.000
Somebody has to let you do a lot of those things to them.
0.99
02:00:22.000
But sometimes people don't know what you're doing.
02:00:24.000
They don't even know you're letting them do it.
0.98
02:00:26.000
I'm always concerned about Rubber Guard with your knees, like fucking up your knee joints.
1.00
02:00:29.000
Because you've got to be very flexible to get that Rubber Guard in.
0.96
02:00:39.000
It's where you put somebody in between your legs.
1.00
02:00:43.000
You put somebody between your legs, and then you pull your leg over their head, but their head has to pop through, so now you're controlling them.
0.98
02:00:54.000
It's a lot of fucking rubberiness that I don't have the ability to do.
0.91
02:00:58.000
It was invented by my friend Eddie Bravo, but there was some guys who would play high guard before that.
0.96
02:01:08.000
So he's pulling down, using his leg and his arms to control a guy, and wraps him up.
02:01:28.000
Eddie and Joe came up under my teacher, and then Eddie took it to another level from there.
02:01:34.000
Well, Eddie just branched out and went into no-gi.
02:01:41.000
Much more concerned with no-gi techniques, because he wanted techniques that would work in mixed martial arts.
02:01:46.000
So in mixed martial arts, you don't have the collars to grab and the sleeves to grab, so he wanted to invent a system that you could use Especially when you have the ability to fight off your back.
02:01:59.000
That's Ben Saunders, who's one of the best at it in MMA. If you get wrapped up, you're on top of a dude and he wraps you up with his legs like that.
02:02:12.000
Human nature tells you when you're on your back and there's a guy on top of you, you're in trouble.
02:02:32.000
It was one of my favorite places on the planet.
02:02:55.000
There's a lot of people, but they don't have that asshole vibe that like New York has.
0.98
02:02:59.000
I think it's the fifth largest city in North America.
0.99
02:03:02.000
Let me tell you, they're building like mad over there.
02:03:13.000
Well, there's so much cool shit there, and now that weed's legal, it's probably booming in Canada.
0.98
02:03:33.000
They're opening like about 25 or 50 in Toronto.
02:03:48.000
And then you were there, I think, like a month before me when I left.
02:03:52.000
I was there before my Netflix special came out.
02:03:54.000
It came out in October, so I think I was there around then.
02:03:59.000
That's probably one of my favorite cities to visit.
0.95
02:04:45.000
Canadians are polite, but we'll talk shit about you when you're not looking.
0.99
02:04:53.000
But Canadians can also get freaked out by people being forward, which Americans are considered very forward.
02:05:03.000
Whereas an American would be like, hey, I want to ask you something.
0.98
02:05:07.000
Canadians would be like, oh, why is this person so aggressive?
02:05:10.000
Whereas a Canadian would be like, excuse me, I'd like to ask you a question.
1.00
02:05:14.000
It's very similar, but just different approaches.
02:05:18.000
As far as stand-up comedy, how good is the community in Canada?
02:05:23.000
Is it like the community in America where there's a lot of up-and-coming people?
02:05:41.000
You know, the clubs tap out at like maybe you'll make...
02:05:53.000
Especially if they're selling out and making drink money.
02:05:56.000
Yeah, that's the problem is that the club, I liken it to the UFC almost to a certain degree.
02:06:02.000
It's not about the comic, it's about the name of the club.
02:06:07.000
It doesn't matter who's there, it's about Yuck Yucks.
0.99
02:06:09.000
The UFC is about UFC, it doesn't matter who the fucking fighter is.
0.99
02:06:11.000
They used to have that attitude at some of the clubs in LA. That was one of the reasons why they had that big comic strike way back in the 70s.
0.98
02:06:19.000
It's because people felt like the comics were the ones who were providing the art form, but the clubs were the ones who were making all the money, and they were like, hey, you're at the improv, or you're at the comedy store.
0.98
02:06:28.000
You know, the pay scale at these clubs is the same as it was in the 80s, which is fucking horrible.
02:06:33.000
Like, I take people out on the road with me, and the clubs will pay 50 bucks for an MC for the weekend, and 100 bucks for the feature.
0.98
02:06:40.000
And I'm like, that's fucking, that's what it was.
0.95
02:06:43.000
I started in 89, and that's what it was back then.
0.99
02:06:48.000
Like, How are these kids going to make a living?
02:06:53.000
Because when people think that boxers make millions of dollars because Floyd Mayweather would make $100 million in a fight, that is true.
02:06:58.000
But if you look at the undercard, there's guys that are fighting for chump change.
02:07:11.000
That's because I'm coming out of the Olympics, baby.
02:07:15.000
But even still, that's $5,000 for a fucking professional fight.
0.99
02:07:19.000
But you also had signed a million dollar deal.
0.98
02:07:27.000
I mean, there's guys fighting out there for like 800 bucks, you know what I mean?
02:07:33.000
You know, another thing that disturbs me about MMA, as opposed to boxing, is the win-lose bonus.
02:07:42.000
I think a fighter should get paid what they're supposed to get paid.
1.00
02:07:47.000
And if you're trying to lose, you're never going to be able to compete at the highest level anyway.
02:07:54.000
They're literally sacrificing their health.
0.99
02:07:58.000
And they might get fucked out of a decision.
0.94
02:08:01.000
And because of that, they lose 50% of their money.
0.99
02:08:03.000
So some incompetent judge, which in boxing is everywhere.
02:08:12.000
There's people that don't even do it anymore because they would be chased out of the game.
02:08:19.000
When you hear the judges' names go, fuck, not that guy.
1.00
02:08:24.000
I mean, but imagine if 50% of your purse goes away because someone doesn't know what the fuck they're doing.
0.58
02:08:29.000
So wait, the win-lose bonus, they're guaranteed a certain amount.
0.96
02:08:33.000
They're guaranteed a certain amount, but that's to show.
02:08:35.000
Like, say maybe you would get 10 and 10. So you get $10,000 to fight and $10,000 more if you win.
02:08:46.000
And the idea is that you're going to give these fighters an incentive to put on a better show.
02:08:54.000
I don't like when people fight any different than the way they're fighting when they're fighting the best and the smartest.
02:09:03.000
You shouldn't engage in a wild brawl because you want some performance bonus.
02:09:07.000
Because they'll give out performance of the night or knockout of the night.
02:09:11.000
Can you lose and still get the fight of the night bonus?
02:09:19.000
He would fight that way if you gave him a guarantee.
02:09:23.000
If he knew he was going to make a half million dollars a fight, no matter what, he would fight exactly that way.
02:09:32.000
He's an anomaly though because he grew up with money, didn't he?
02:09:41.000
I thought he could grow up with a decent amount of money.
02:10:07.000
He actually looked very good in his last fight up until the time he got leg locked.
02:10:10.000
Clay Guida was a very exciting fighter back in the day.
02:10:13.000
But he got leg-locked by Ryan Hall, who's just this phenomenal jiu-jitsu player.
02:10:20.000
He did an Imanari roll and caught him at a leg-lock and just fucked his leg up.
0.96
02:10:29.000
It sounds like something you eat at a sushi place.
02:10:35.000
Iminari is this very famous Japanese fighter who is a phenomenal leg lock artist.
02:10:43.000
There's an Iminari roll and there's an Iminari, which an Iminari comes from omoplata.
02:10:55.000
Yeah, it's a shoulder lock, and then the iminari is, while you're locked up in the omoplata, you grab a grip underneath the guy's chin and you yank him back.
02:11:10.000
We can, but if you catch yourself in an omoplata, it's coming.
02:11:14.000
You know what's funny is when I'm a big fan of the in-arm choke, which I know is your favorite.
02:11:32.000
Well, you know, sometimes you have techniques that you hit so often that you just know when they're there, and you can close them up real quick.
1.00
02:11:43.000
Ever since then, I've actually been working on that.
02:11:45.000
Well, you know, so many guys did it to me, and it's such a suffocating feeling.
02:11:49.000
When someone's on top of you, and you've got your arm pinned here, and their arm's across your neck, and you're like...
02:12:03.000
Well, you have to put your hand on your ear like you're answering the phone.
02:12:08.000
The first thing is you're trying to create some space here so that you don't go to sleep.
02:12:13.000
You got to give in to the fact that this guy's choking this side of your neck for sure.
02:12:18.000
So the arm's coming under here and it's wrapping around here.
02:12:20.000
And if you just go like that and it's down or like that, it's going to get smushed.
02:12:30.000
You're trying to create a little bit of space.
1.00
02:12:32.000
And then you hope this motherfucker gets tired of squeezing your neck.
1.00
02:12:35.000
And then you're trying to get in here and create a little bit of space.
1.00
02:12:46.000
It's all just a matter of little inches, little tiny micro movements.
02:12:50.000
But when someone has your arm wrapped up like that and they have that arm across your neck and they're crushing you with their body weight and then they get their knee on your solar plexus and flatten you out and squeeze down.
02:13:03.000
Are there fighters in other countries that don't go in MMA but they're unbelievable fighters but they're not trying to show anybody that they're unbelievable fighters?
02:13:13.000
No, those guys all get fucked up and they try to.
1.00
02:13:16.000
They think they do it because you start believing it and you have your students and they believe you're the master.
0.99
02:13:22.000
There's that Shaolin guy who tried entering a bunch of...
0.97
02:13:26.000
And that guy who'd wear the orange Shaolin suit and he would win in like these really hokey fight contest.
02:13:31.000
And then he'd get into the big ones and he'd just get the shit beat out of them.
0.97
02:13:41.000
He could do a little bit, but what I'm talking about is these Chi Masters.
0.99
02:13:57.000
McDojo Life on Instagram has a shitload of those.
02:14:03.000
Yeah, well, a lot of those guys, they'll go and fight a real fighter, and they think they actually know how to fight, and they just get concussed.
02:14:21.000
So, you know, in a real fight, Boxers have been hit.
02:14:25.000
You know, guys that do kung fu and all those things, they don't get hit.
02:14:28.000
So when they do get hit in a real fight, it's like it messes them up.
02:14:35.000
The difference between practicing and, you know, thinking.
02:14:44.000
That guy in the black gi looks like he's going to fuck this dude up.
1.00
02:14:48.000
That gi looks like the carpeting in my bedroom.
1.00
02:14:59.000
I wonder why they're wearing such weird geese and everybody clapping.
02:15:06.000
These silly fucks, they really believe that.
1.00
02:15:09.000
I bet that guy could get them to suck his dick the same way.
1.00
02:15:11.000
I know people who really believe that their teacher can do that stuff.
1.00
02:15:25.000
It's weird that those people are still around in the day of video cameras that you can still have this.
02:15:32.000
Even what you were saying that if you hadn't fought in two years and then you would get in there and get hit, you're like, whoa, okay.
02:15:49.000
But Keith Thurman had to suffer through that one little concussion.
02:15:57.000
If you hit him with that same shot, he would have took it even better.
02:16:08.000
And, you know, it was Thurman's big comeback fight.
02:16:20.000
But that's also one of the things that makes it so interesting.
02:16:23.000
And when a guy does come back from a devastating loss, and you go, okay, like Manny Pacquiao, when Marquez knocked him out.
02:16:41.000
It's like, you know, you make a move, it's a good move, but then you've moved into the man's power punch, and he hits you, and, you know, there's no second chance with that one.
02:16:51.000
Yeah, and Marquez, I mean, he's an interesting case.
02:17:01.000
Obviously a very, very talented fighter, but as he got older, he got like physically stronger.
02:17:15.000
I mean, and he actually was working with Manny Pacquiao's old strength and conditioning guy, and Manny was the guy who was always accused of doing stuff.
02:17:38.000
They're talking about doing a Floyd Pacquiao rematch.
02:17:44.000
I want to see how much money Floyd Mayweather can make.
02:17:48.000
I mean, look, the fact that he talked everybody into that Conor McGregor fight, and he made more than $100 million for that fight.
02:17:59.000
Yeah, but he's supposed to be fighting another...
02:18:11.000
I mean, the fact that he fought Mayweather at all, and people were like, oh, it looks like it was a fake fight.
02:18:15.000
No, that's what it looks like when a 126-pound fighter fights one of the best boxers of all time.
02:18:25.000
Because he got his fucking brain rattled, you know?
1.00
02:18:33.000
But Gervonta can't make that weight anymore either.
02:18:35.000
Gervonta can't even make the weight he's at now.
02:18:41.000
I mean, Floyd didn't make any fucking weight.
0.98
02:18:44.000
Do you like the way 1FC is doing their weight thing?
02:18:48.000
Yeah, for people who don't know, they don't let them cut weight.
02:18:51.000
They do hydration tests, so there's no dehydrating yourself.
02:18:56.000
So if you weigh naturally, you walk around 185 pounds, you're going to fight at 185 pounds.
02:19:01.000
You're not going to fight at 170 or 165 like a lot of these guys do.
02:19:06.000
Yeah, that's good because the hydration aspect of, even in any sport, taking that liquid away from the brain, your body needs liquid.
02:19:22.000
It's terrible for your performance, your internal organs.
02:19:24.000
A lot of guys have kidney failure when they're cutting weight for weigh-ins.
02:19:27.000
That's the beautiful thing about you being a heavyweight, right?
02:19:33.000
But there was always that fighting weight where I would be perfect at.
02:19:49.000
Now, what kind of nutrition did you follow when you were fighting?
02:19:52.000
Did you take specific vitamins or did you drink specific things?
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Remember that with Sugary Leonard against Thomas Hearns?
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And he gets, Sugary Leonard gets fired up and he goes out and stops him the next round.
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It's so important for a young fighter to get hooked up with the right trainer.
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I think part of the problem with a lot of the young kids right now, they need to get good trainers.
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Good trainers really help your game because it even helps you with the TV. Because I was saying today that when a man you...
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Before that, it was like, oh, he doesn't throw the jab enough.
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The fight when I went with Manny, they were like praising me.
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Mercer helped me out because before that fight, I was always fighting guys that hooked around.
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So I kept my hands like this at the side of my face.
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It's like, you know, hey, did you win the fight?
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So I kept on walking around with a fat lip, and then...
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I got a good picture of you, me, and Lloyd, and you got a fat lip.
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It's right after one of your fights from, like, 97. And then Manny said, you know what you're doing wrong?
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He said, you need to put your hand in front of your mouth.
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So even if a guy throws a punch which doesn't slide through, it's going to hit your hand.
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And he said, you can move your hand two inches to protect yourself from a hook, can't you?
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Well, but having a great trainer is so important in MMA as well.
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It's like you really have to find the right ones.
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A lot of good trainers are just former fighters now, right?
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But, you know, someone has to be a real...
0.81
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They can't just be a trainer, or just be a former fighter, rather.
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You have to be a student to really understand the game.
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Like, Emmanuel was only an amateur fighter, right?
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He never fought professional, and he was one of the greatest of all time, unquestionably.
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And you think about all the guys, Gerald McClellan, Tommy Hearns, all the great fighters that came out of that camp.
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The only problem I have with, you know, old-time fighters is like, you know, some old-time fighters were bad fighters.
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Now they're training a young kid the same way, and it's not positive.
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But then there's guys who are better as trainers than they were as fighters, like Freddie Roach.
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Like, Freddie Roach is recognized as one of the greatest trainers for sure alive, but as a fighter, he was a journeyman.
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And he got knocked up by Urquayo in the second round.
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Well, he was a good trainer with Tyson, but he never really developed talent outside of Tyson.
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I think he developed a lot of alcohol, that's what.
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You know, hanging around with Mike, and he's got tigers on a leash.
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And then Buddy had a good run for a minute, Buddy McGirt.
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Listen, man, your phone keeps blowing up and you were supposed to be out here an hour ago, but I appreciate your time, man.