The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1283 - Russell Brand

00:00:03.000 Boom! 0.99

00:00:03.000 And we're live. 0.99

00:00:04.000 Russell, why is it then when people start getting like super spiritual, they start dressing like you?

00:00:09.000 You dress like a guru.

00:00:11.000 We circulate a memo.

00:00:13.000 So it's now time to stop wearing socks, stop shaving, and make eye contact for a bit too long.

00:00:20.000 Oh, uncomfortable eye contact.

00:00:21.000 Get my beard starey! 1.00

00:00:23.000 How long are you going to go with the beard?

00:00:24.000 I mean, that's like, you're full on like...

00:00:27.000 You're a yogi now.

00:00:28.000 I mean, it's gone beyond Jesus and into Moses and lesser prophets.

00:00:32.000 Old Testament.

00:00:33.000 Or a Navy SEAL. You're in that range, too.

00:00:35.000 Like, you could be some wild man.

00:00:37.000 That's a mistake that wouldn't...

00:00:39.000 Like, if there was an assault course in front of us, the potential for me being a Navy SEAL would start to break down.

00:00:45.000 I once went on an assault course with some US Marines in that place near San Diego.

00:00:51.000 I can't remember the name of that base.

00:00:53.000 And climbing up that rope using your leg muscles, it was not good value.

00:00:57.000 Didn't enjoy it?

00:00:58.000 I like the camaraderie.

00:01:02.000 As I've written about and talk about quite a lot, when I'm around in very male environments, I kind of really like it.

00:01:09.000 I really get off in it.

00:01:10.000 But I have to watch myself not getting too excitable.

00:01:14.000 It's even in this environment, as a matter of fact, I have to keep myself a little bit chilled out.

00:01:19.000 Why?

00:01:20.000 What do you mean?

00:01:20.000 What does it do to you?

00:01:21.000 Well I guess what it is is my early life I grew up mostly around my mum and I don't have brothers and sisters and stuff like that so my male role modeling occurred later in life and I think it probably relates to this spiritual thing I think it meant that I was I'm very open to sort of Spiritual experience,

00:01:38.000 meditative experience.

00:01:39.000 I didn't have a lot of grounding physical experiences or bodily experiences, really, till adolescence and sexuality.

00:01:45.000 That's the first time I really got into the body.

00:01:48.000 Didn't do sport as a kid.

00:01:49.000 Didn't have men going, right, this is what we do, this is how we shave, this is how you treat people. 0.76

00:01:53.000 I didn't really get that kind of education.

00:01:56.000 So now, still, if I'm around soldiers, UFC fighters, you know I do BJJs primarily as a result of these...

00:02:08.000 There's a bit of me that's...

00:02:12.000 I get excited about the analysis of it.

00:02:14.000 It's not homoerotic because that doesn't happen to be the way that I roll out.

00:02:18.000 You just enjoy a little too much.

00:02:20.000 There's something about it.

00:02:21.000 Yeah, you get fired up.

00:02:23.000 What's bad about it?

00:02:25.000 What's bad about getting fired up?

00:02:28.000 Nothing for me, except, as you know, my model for life is a 12-step model about watching my impulses.

00:02:37.000 My impulses have got me in a lot of trouble.

00:02:39.000 My impulses to take drugs, my impulses to sleep around, my impulses to even eat food.

00:02:45.000 I've got a tendency to get obsessive, but you would probably argue that if you direct that energy correctly, it can be kind of positive.

00:02:53.000 Yeah.

00:02:53.000 I think it can, but I agree with you that it can get out of control.

00:02:56.000 And I have similar impulses.

00:02:58.000 I have similar problems.

00:03:00.000 And I've just used discipline and hard work, especially working out, to try to mitigate it.

00:03:06.000 Well, that's what I pick up from you, is that your early encounters with martial arts have meant that you've understood from a young age, it seems to me, physical...

00:03:15.000 Discipline.

00:03:16.000 And I think that's a very important thing.

00:03:18.000 And I'm only learning that now because I've had drugs, then fame, and chaos.

00:03:26.000 And I've only just emerged from the fog of that madness.

00:03:30.000 I love how you've emerged, though, because it's very unique.

00:03:33.000 You've uniquely emerged authentically.

00:03:37.000 This is who you really are.

00:03:38.000 You're not putting on an act.

00:03:40.000 You've found yourself, which is what everybody wants to do.

00:03:43.000 They want to find themselves.

00:03:44.000 I mean, it never feels like a completed task, right?

00:03:47.000 Everyone's a work in progress forever.

00:03:49.000 That's right.

00:03:50.000 But you are you.

00:03:51.000 Like, you are very comfortably you.

00:03:53.000 And you've found what makes you, you.

00:03:56.000 That's a lovely compliment to get from you, Joe.

00:03:58.000 I appreciate that.

00:03:59.000 Because what I think about is, like, you're a very different type of person to me.

00:04:02.000 There's things that, in this world, in these polemical times, you and I would be supposed to, I would say, take adversarial stances on.

00:04:11.000 I'm vegan now.

00:04:12.000 You love hunting.

00:04:14.000 But my personal philosophy is my morality and my spirituality is for me.

00:04:19.000 It's not something I go around inflicting on other people and telling them how they should behave.

00:04:24.000 I know enough now to know people are different.

00:04:26.000 People have different experiences.

00:04:27.000 And I don't let those things get in the way of how I evaluate other people.

00:04:31.000 We should all be more like that.

00:04:33.000 I really believe that.

00:04:34.000 I mean, there's so many people that I disagree with that I have fine conversations with.

00:04:38.000 I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I don't think that impulse to have antagonistic engagements with people that you disagree with is correct.

00:04:46.000 How else are we going to consolidate?

00:04:48.000 If, like, it's just like, I'm only going to deal with people that see the world roughly how I do.

00:04:52.000 How are we going to form new tribes, new alliances, new relationships, new systems at a time when, evidently, it feels to me at least, Joe, like things are breaking down.

00:05:01.000 There's a lot of...

00:05:03.000 Bitterness, acerbity and confrontation and people don't want to talk to each other.

00:05:06.000 I mean, I don't know how real that is of actual people.

00:05:08.000 I'm talking, I suppose, about how the media landscape seems to present information.

00:05:12.000 I don't know if that's true when you're...

00:05:14.000 You know, when I'm around people, I don't sense, oh, wow, these guys are really tied up in Brexit or Trump or whatever.

00:05:20.000 It doesn't seem that relevant to ordinary people.

00:05:23.000 It seems to me that people are still...

00:05:25.000 Operating on a personal, how are you today?

00:05:28.000 You know, people are willing to get on like that.

00:05:30.000 I mean, how are we supposed to take these ideas on board?

00:05:33.000 They're sort of almost too vast for us.

00:05:35.000 These geopolitical ideas that we're asked to identify with.

00:05:38.000 Right, and then your everyday life hardly ever affects you or affects you very little in comparison to things that you ignore because you're concentrating on Brexit or you're concentrating on Trump or you're concentrating on whatever it is.

00:05:50.000 The wall.

00:05:51.000 Build that wall.

00:05:52.000 Whatever it is.

00:05:52.000 Yeah, I start to wonder Who is it that's involved in this stuff?

00:05:57.000 Where I'm at now is, are we even capable of belonging to groups, units, tribes of 300 million people or 60 million people with so many diverse ideas?

00:06:12.000 Is this a time to look at federalism differently, to start breaking down, well, you know, I exist within this tribe of people, but I collaborate with all these other people.

00:06:21.000 I don't know how municipal action gets done.

00:06:23.000 I don't know how you run an army and build roads if people are starting to operate in smaller units, but I am thinking that we need to have a real sense of community and connection, and we've got to let go of looking for ways to object to and judge other people as some sort of primary way of forming our own identity.

00:06:40.000 No, I completely agree, and I think we're probably moving towards some sort of understanding that a lot of these boundaries and these clans of states and countries, they were all established without our consent before we were born, and we're a part of a system that we didn't agree to it.

00:07:00.000 We just all of a sudden found ourselves in it, and we're trying to make it fit us.

00:07:04.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:07:04.000 And there's aspects of it that are appealing.

00:07:08.000 During a World Cup, I really feel English.

00:07:13.000 I feel a genuine sense of connection and investment.

00:07:17.000 But if I'm being asked to live according to rules that don't affect me, that affect me financially and don't speak to who I am as an individual, then I'm like, what is this?

00:07:29.000 This isn't for my benefit.

00:07:31.000 Yeah, and the inclination to form teams.

00:07:36.000 And to root for your team and to root against other teams, it's so deep-seated in us.

00:07:41.000 And it can cause so many unnecessary conflicts for no reason.

00:07:47.000 It's so escapable, too.

00:07:51.000 So if you can objectively analyze the way human beings behave and interact with each other and go, well, why do we do this?

00:07:57.000 Let's just stop doing that.

00:07:59.000 If we disagree on things, how much...

00:08:02.000 Are these disagreements actually affecting me on a daily basis?

00:08:05.000 Not that much.

00:08:06.000 Can't we just communicate?

00:08:08.000 Can't someone say what they think and I say what I think and we just decide what makes sense and what doesn't make sense based on our own interpretations?

00:08:16.000 Isn't that possible?

00:08:17.000 It seems like that's the direction we've got to head in.

00:08:19.000 I did, as I know you have done, a podcast with Candice Owens, who, like, on the subject of, you know, individuals, like, when she says stuff like people should get over slavery, or it's as if it didn't happen, I don't agree with that.

00:08:32.000 I feel like that has a massive social impact, that those statistics are not a coincidence, the number of...

00:08:38.000 People have certain ethnicities in prisons and in poverty or whatever.

00:08:42.000 For me, that's not just a coincidence.

00:08:44.000 So I couldn't agree with her more profoundly on, according to social criteria, some very, very important issues.

00:08:50.000 But on an interpersonal level, I thought she was absolutely delightful.

00:08:53.000 Sort of funny and sweet.

00:08:56.000 She's very young, if you really start to think about it.

00:08:58.000 She's only 28, which is amazing.

00:09:01.000 Is that correct?

00:09:04.000 She's so much smarter than I was when I was 28. She's certainly a lot more confident than I was.

00:09:08.000 Yeah, she's pretty here too. 0.98

00:09:09.000 28 or indeed.

00:09:10.000 29?

00:09:11.000 Same thing. 1.00

00:09:11.000 So, when I was 29, I was a fucking moron, okay? 1.00

00:09:15.000 And no one would ever listen to my opinions on anything on a world stage. 1.00

00:09:19.000 Yeah.

00:09:19.000 People are listening to her.

00:09:21.000 I mean, she's testifying in front of Congress. 0.71

00:09:23.000 I mean, she's...

00:09:24.000 So, I cut her a lot of slack with some of the things that she's made, like, missteps on.

00:09:29.000 And I think sometimes when people say those things, like, people should get over slavery, it's like...

00:09:35.000 It's almost like you're saying things that you think other people want to hear, more than you're saying things that are really rational.

00:09:42.000 So whether or not we should get over slavery, sure, slavery was over more than 100 years ago, but the repercussions of slavery, the echoes of slavery still exist.

00:09:50.000 And they exist in all these different southern states and cities and all these different neighborhoods that had been a part of systemic racism where they had literally It forced black people to live in certain areas and didn't even allow them to buy homes outside of those areas.

00:10:06.000 They made laws, and those laws were in place in places like Baltimore.

00:10:10.000 I had this guy, Michael Wood, who was a police officer in the city of Baltimore, and one of the more profound things that he said was that they found papers that were documenting crimes from the 1970s in Baltimore.

00:10:25.000 And they were in the same area, the same crimes that he was facing in the 2000s when he was a police officer. 0.99

00:10:31.000 So he was looking at this going, what in the fuck? 0.98

00:10:35.000 Am I just a part of something that's never going to be fixed and never going to be changed? 0.99

00:10:39.000 And as he learned more about the city and the city's laws and how these...

00:10:57.000 And that's what it is.

00:11:03.000 I had a couple of conversations that made me recognise how powerful systems and institutions are and their ability to maintain themselves regardless of any individual.

00:11:13.000 It seems like what happened there with the man you were chatting to is that he's an individual woke up and went, oh my god, hold on a second, I'm in some sort of weird grid.

00:11:20.000 And I spoke to this fella called Cairn Ross who worked for the British Diplomatic Service at the time of 9-11 and was privy to confidential information about how that was handled on a military and geopolitical level.

00:11:33.000 And he said, like, he's come away from that, thinking, well, these institutions function and in a totally corrupt way to pursue their own objectives.

00:11:41.000 Disingenuity and dishonesty is just part of the system.

00:11:44.000 And it was him that made me think about anarchism in a different way, saying that people...

00:11:48.000 The assumption that people, if they were not tightly governed with big government and huge control, would go around murdering each other and raping each other is simply not true.

00:11:58.000 That's one of the means by which the state continues to justify its existence.

00:12:02.000 People will behave better the closer they are to government.

00:12:06.000 Self-governing community.

00:12:08.000 Self-governing community.

00:12:09.000 And I was interested in that because he's talking from...

00:12:11.000 This is what I saw on the inside.

00:12:12.000 This is how I saw it was running.

00:12:15.000 Like your cop friend there.

00:12:16.000 And like another person I spoke to that had been inside a system and then woken up within it.

00:12:24.000 Who was that?

00:12:24.000 Oh yeah...

00:12:25.000 I think?

00:12:47.000 It was magnificent to watch in a way.

00:12:49.000 And he said none of those individuals have any power except the power that that role gives them.

00:12:53.000 If you are the German finance minister, you've got the power that a German finance minister has.

00:12:58.000 You can't step outside it and start going, right, listen, why don't we do this and why don't we do that?

00:13:03.000 It's beyond individual decisions.

00:13:06.000 It's a self-sustaining system.

00:13:08.000 It won't come up with ideas or support ideas that threaten it.

00:13:11.000 And that's why I continually keep hearing, and I'm sure you're having similar conversations, that if you are really interested in changing the world, you have to participate in systems that are outside of it.

00:13:20.000 Set up new ideas.

00:13:21.000 Don't worry about trying to smash this one down with a hammer.

00:13:24.000 It will atrophy on its own as it becomes less and less relevant.

00:13:27.000 I think also, change yourself.

00:13:29.000 And when you change yourself, it becomes evident to the people around you.

00:13:32.000 And if your change is beneficial and attractive, people, they gravitate towards that idea that you can improve yourself, and you can change your perspective on things.

00:13:45.000 Well, that is the one area of your life where you've got some authority and control, and that is what I'm about.

00:13:52.000 It's like, well, I can stop myself I'm watching pornography.

00:13:58.000 I can stop myself using drugs if I want to, with some support.

00:14:03.000 This book here, Mentors, which I talk about you in, only for a paragraph, you know what I mean?

00:14:07.000 It's not like literary fellatio.

00:14:10.000 It's a small nod of your influence and impact.

00:14:15.000 I talk about how we have latent qualities within us that are sometimes hard to realise without support.

00:14:25.000 But if you find a mentor in an area where you're looking to improve, they can...

00:14:30.000 Kind of energize, awaken energies within you that on your own you wouldn't be able to use.

00:14:37.000 I had a really recent experience of it where I was sort of like freaking out about something.

00:14:41.000 I spoke to like a mentor of mine and like the way that he sort of spoke to me was like sort of aggressive, like a sort of an aggressive, that's not going to happen, you are not afraid!

00:14:50.000 And like it sort of woke up the part of me that feels that way, that has that kind of, I would say, sort of Male certainty, a kind of grounded energy.

00:15:01.000 He was able to direct it at me.

00:15:03.000 And in that moment in myself, all bewildered, I wasn't able to do it.

00:15:06.000 I needed to resource it externally in a moment.

00:15:09.000 So this is how I feel like your individual journey.

00:15:13.000 I'm interested in how, because I'm guessing with your background in martial arts and stuff, mentorship seems pretty much stitched into that.

00:15:20.000 You must continually be looking at someone, learning from someone, trying to equal them or whatever it is.

00:15:26.000 Yeah, the good part about that is you get good at learning things.

00:15:28.000 You get good at listening.

00:15:30.000 As a martial arts student, you don't just listen.

00:15:34.000 You listen very intently.

00:15:35.000 You bow.

00:15:36.000 You say, sir.

00:15:38.000 There's so much discipline involved in the act of learning.

00:15:44.000 Yeah.

00:15:45.000 And so much reverence and respect for people who know more than you and appreciation.

00:15:49.000 So that helped me with pretty much everything I ever wanted to learn.

00:15:52.000 I just would listen very intently.

00:15:54.000 And I don't think, ah, maybe I could figure it out better.

00:15:57.000 I'm very good at listening to people that are good at things.

00:16:00.000 That's interesting.

00:16:01.000 Did you first get into, like, you know, I've picked up stuff over the various shows of yours that I've listened to, but would you say that your inaugural interest in martial arts came from kind of domestic distress and stuff?

00:16:16.000 Were you having a difficult home life and not a good relationship with your stepdad?

00:16:19.000 Am I right in saying that?

00:16:20.000 There was that, but it was also moving more than anything.

00:16:23.000 I mean, my stepdad's a nice guy, but it was, stepdad's, it's always a weird situation, you know?

00:16:29.000 No one likes the dynamic of someone having sex with their mother.

00:16:32.000 I remember having similar feelings about my own stepdad.

00:16:37.000 What are they doing in there?

00:16:38.000 He's a great guy, though.

00:16:38.000 I don't want to pin him in a bad way.

00:16:41.000 What was really hard was moving a lot and running into bullies.

00:16:45.000 That was way harder than anything else.

00:16:47.000 So there was a time in your life where you felt very, presumably, vulnerable and not grounded.

00:16:52.000 Yes.

00:16:52.000 Didn't have any friends, constantly moving to new neighborhoods, meeting new people.

00:16:56.000 And, you know, when you're a young boy or a teenage boy, teenage boys are fucking dangerous. 1.00

00:17:02.000 Yeah, they're the worst. 1.00

00:17:02.000 They're the worst. 1.00

00:17:03.000 If you see a group of them now, I'm talking about my country, 13, 14 years old, are across the street.

00:17:09.000 Yeah.

00:17:09.000 They're lawless.

00:17:10.000 Well, young boys are just, they're always looking to impress each other and they have these, if you want to find real toxic masculinity, it exists in teenage boys.

00:17:20.000 It's mostly exaggerated in men.

00:17:23.000 The way it's described is mostly exaggerated in terms of the way the media talks about it. 0.99

00:17:27.000 In its purest form, teenage boys, they get together and they start lighting frogs on fire and doing shit. 0.96

00:17:33.000 They do things because they want to one-up each other and they feed off of each other. 0.99

00:17:38.000 What one boy would do is so different than what five boys would do.

00:17:43.000 What five boys would do could be horrific, but what one boy would do on his own is very rarely there.

00:17:49.000 You have to think about yourself and think about, is this right?

00:17:53.000 You objectively analyze the way you're behaving.

00:17:56.000 People wouldn't be proud of me if I did it this way.

00:17:59.000 But when you're with five other boys and you're all rambunctious and filled with testosterone and piss and vinegar, you wind up doing crazy things.

00:18:08.000 When I hear something like that, it's difficult not to think that it's of course relative.

00:18:12.000 Relative to us, the behavior of adolescent males is reckless and crazy.

00:18:17.000 It's not impossible to conceive of an intelligence that would look at the behavior of adult human beings and think, oh my god, what's governing these people?

00:18:27.000 What principles are they using?

00:18:30.000 What's the end goal, too?

00:18:31.000 What are you trying to accomplish with your life, with your existence, with your time?

00:18:35.000 I think if there's a real concern about AI... I think the real concern is AI is going to rationally analyze our behavior and our reliance on emotions and all these human reward systems that we have built in and the way it's affecting our society and the way it's affecting how we govern ourselves and how we behave amongst ourselves.

00:18:55.000 And it's going to think.

00:18:57.000 We're unfixable.

00:18:58.000 It's going to look at it like, well, they have too much monkey in them.

00:19:01.000 They have so much monkey instincts and monkey DNA, but now they live in this rational, modern world of, you know, 5G internet on your phone and satellite communication and 24-7 news cycle, but yet they have these primate genes.

00:19:19.000 Artificial intelligence, a subject about which I know very little...

00:19:23.000 Seems to me that it will on some level have to be derived from a particular aspect of human understanding of rationalism.

00:19:31.000 So we're representing one aspect of our nature and prioritizing it.

00:19:35.000 Logic, organization.

00:19:38.000 But what you refer to as sort of...

00:19:41.000 Primitive and monkey-ish.

00:19:43.000 For me, it envelops and involves the most beautiful aspects of our nature.

00:19:49.000 I'm a little romantic about human beings still.

00:19:53.000 I still feel that one of the great problems we've had is that philosophically we have overvalued materialism, rationalism, and knowing a little bit about philosophy, primarily from that bloody podcast that you and I tagged a minute ago before we was recording.

00:20:09.000 Yeah, philosophize this.

00:20:11.000 So what I understand for that is that post-enlightenment, we've started to prioritize rationalism.

00:20:16.000 So if you prioritize rationalism and organization, which obviously has a lot to offer, the organization of resources is incredibly and hugely important, you forget that a huge part of the human experience is nothing to do with that.

00:20:28.000 The other thing we were chatting about before we went live was DMT. Now no artificial intelligence is going to understand that there is access to a realm of consciousness that continually exists that doesn't seem to be bound by physical laws as we understand them and if the physical laws that we abide by are parochial and relevant only to this level of existence Why are we allowing ideas resourced from there to govern all of our systems?

00:20:56.000 You know, even listening to you talk about DMT and you say, I encountered these gestures, the gestures, I went through this membrane into another realm and checking out Mike Tyson when he was on here.

00:21:07.000 No, no, no, yeah!

00:21:08.000 I love that.

00:21:09.000 That moment was amazing.

00:21:14.000 I took acid when I was a teenager, and even in very unhealthy, not unhealthy, but unbridled, mad teenage boy conditions, I want to be there with a guy in a lab coat with a pen going, well, Mr. Brand, sit down, look at these Rorschach tests,

00:21:30.000 instead of which, I mean, New Cross in a bedsit, Dropping acid and staring at my own hands and recognising, oh my God, I'm not me.

00:21:37.000 The very idea of me is a construct.

00:21:39.000 I'm just tuned into a particular aspect.

00:21:42.000 AI will build systems that are predicated on rationalism, organisation.

00:21:48.000 And on that basis, I can see why they would at some point, yeah, go all Skynet and annihilate us.

00:21:53.000 But that is...

00:21:55.000 I believe the problem with our society is that the materialistic aspect of our nature is not the priority.

00:22:02.000 It's just one thing we should be doing.

00:22:04.000 Of course we need good roads, of course we need hospitals, schools, food, etc.

00:22:07.000 But we need to find a way of honouring the sacred.

00:22:10.000 And I'm fascinated in the experiences you're having in these psychedelic explorations.

00:22:16.000 And how it's influencing the rest of your life.

00:22:19.000 How does it influence the rest of your decisions, the way you see the world, the way you see relationships, the way you see the vulnerable young man you were prior to building your own, I say, personal religion of martial arts, excellence in your chosen field of stand-up comedy.

00:22:35.000 How do you...

00:22:37.000 Incorporate that vulnerable kid, because I'm still very aware of the vulnerable person I was.

00:22:41.000 I'm going on a rant, man.

00:22:42.000 That's good. 0.99

00:22:43.000 When Kevin Hart was on here, who I think is amazing, and he was amazing on this, I thought, fucking hell. 0.96

00:22:49.000 What have I got to offer the world when Kevin Hart has got this kind of Force! 0.97

00:22:54.000 Like, you know, you don't come in the bubble.

00:22:56.000 And I was like, my God, this guy is so positive.

00:22:58.000 What a role model.

00:22:59.000 What a lot he's got to offer.

00:23:01.000 And then I thought, well, like any of us, what I've got to offer is who I am.

00:23:05.000 Just who I am as a vulnerable, flawed human being that still feels connected to the kid I was when I didn't feel good enough.

00:23:11.000 I still feel that.

00:23:12.000 I can walk in a room and feel that.

00:23:14.000 But I also know that that's not real because I've had spiritual experiences and Hallucigenic experiences that make me feel that the relationships we should be building have to honour that we are both, we're vulnerable and flawed, but also capable of greatness.

00:23:29.000 There has to be room for all of this, and I feel that part of what we're doing and part of why we're experiencing such superficial polarity in politics and culture is because we're not acknowledging that underneath this surface activity of left-right, left-right, and you know from Sam Harris, them little experiments, you stick garbage in front of someone,

00:23:45.000 They become Republican pretty quickly, or you scare people, they become less Democratic.

00:23:50.000 I think all that stuff is pretty superficial, and at depth, in that realm of the jesters and the membrane of psychedelia, we have access to oneness, and that should be what's influencing the way we set up our tribes, our systems, and our relationships.

00:24:03.000 Yeah, I think when a guy like Kevin Hart shows you what a positive and motivational impact one person can have, just with his words and his deeds and the way he lives his life, he's so inspirational.

00:24:18.000 That you realize that that is possible.

00:24:22.000 That you can share that energy.

00:24:24.000 And that you can have these experiences with people where they literally do actually...

00:24:30.000 They actually uplift you.

00:24:31.000 Like, I was uplifted by his conversation.

00:24:34.000 I felt like, wow, that guy is so positive.

00:24:36.000 What a great way to look at the life that we're living.

00:24:40.000 And the more people do that, the better.

00:24:42.000 And when someone like that does...

00:24:44.000 Spread a positive message.

00:24:46.000 You know, and obviously he's materialistic as well.

00:24:50.000 He's got a bunch of cars and a big house and he makes a lot of money and he does a lot of movies.

00:24:54.000 But what he's spreading is this very motivational, very positive message.

00:25:00.000 And that affects people in a very positive way too. 0.98

00:25:03.000 And all that left-right shit and all the battles that we have politically and ideologically back and forth and all the negative venom that people spray at each other. 0.97

00:25:14.000 At the end of the day, it's not benefiting anyone. 0.99

00:25:18.000 Unless you're fighting some major demon that the world needs to conquer.

00:25:22.000 Most of it's not that.

00:25:24.000 Most of it is like finding demons out of innocuous things.

00:25:29.000 I think when you talk about what you have to offer, what you have to offer is...

00:25:35.000 That you are you.

00:25:36.000 That you have this unique perspective.

00:25:38.000 You can affect the way people view their own journey in life because you've been so introspective and so aware of your own pros and cons in terms of your past behavior, your current behavior, and who you are now and who you used to be.

00:25:55.000 All that stuff is fuel for people because they can relate.

00:25:58.000 They hear it.

00:25:59.000 I mean, maybe they cannot relate to being a movie star and being this famous guy.

00:26:03.000 But they can relate to the humanity of your struggle.

00:26:05.000 They put themselves in your position.

00:26:07.000 Like, what must that have been like?

00:26:09.000 And look at this guy who's made these conscious decisions to not be like that anymore. 0.86

00:26:13.000 And he dresses like a homeless person with a crazy beard.

00:26:16.000 That's the real take-home information. 0.90

00:26:19.000 Dress like you live out of doors.

00:26:21.000 Yeah, dress like you're a homeless guy in Oregon.

00:26:26.000 Specifically there, people will respect that.

00:26:28.000 Yeah, it's like dark colours, you know, it rains a lot.

00:26:30.000 Yeah, I get it, I get the reference.

00:26:32.000 I understand American culture, Joe Rogan.

00:26:35.000 Yeah, so...

00:26:36.000 Hey, can I do some promotional activity?

00:26:39.000 Tell me about your book.

00:26:39.000 Tell me what it's called.

00:26:40.000 What is it?

00:26:41.000 This book is called Mentors.

00:26:42.000 And actually, I read bits of it again because I knew I was coming here.

00:26:46.000 And I think it's actually pretty good.

00:26:48.000 Awesome.

00:26:49.000 I wrote quite a lot about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

00:26:52.000 You really love it, huh?

00:26:53.000 Yeah, I do.

00:26:54.000 My writing is not from a, you'll understand, not from a technical perspective.

00:26:58.000 I'm not saying this is what I've got to say on open guard to transition.

00:27:03.000 I'm talking about how the psychological impact that it's had on me and also in there about the protocols of going to a group, which as a beginner are very relevant.

00:27:12.000 You touched on how ritualised it is.

00:27:15.000 I've got a hunch that the more we emulate and connect to original ways of human behaviour, whether that's dietary...

00:27:22.000 Or hierarchies or organisation of groups, I feel that we will feel a sense of greater connection.

00:27:30.000 Now, the thing I got from going to BJJ classes, Genesis, where I go back in England, is that all the white belts get changed at one end of the room.

00:27:40.000 The purple belts and above get changed at the other end of the room, which coincidentally or not is where the control for the timer is and the control for the music is and where the kit is.

00:27:49.000 That's all at that end of the room, so all the control is that end.

00:27:53.000 But it begins with sort of dancing around in a circle, doing all of those various exercises.

00:27:57.000 Now lift your knees, now do the shrimping and that kind of stuff.

00:28:01.000 It's that a lower belt shouldn't invite a higher belt to spa or roll.

00:28:07.000 And as you say, the amount of respect.

00:28:09.000 The bowing, the handshaking at the end of it.

00:28:13.000 It provides such a safe environment in which to deal with the primal.

00:28:19.000 I can see why it's valuable. 0.99

00:28:22.000 I should have been taught that shit when I was 14, 13, mandatarily, so that I didn't come across it. 0.98

00:28:29.000 You're not going to be setting fire to fields and allotments and putting frogs on fireworks if you've got a way of dealing with that primal energy when it's coming. 0.99

00:28:39.000 Some people that don't understand that think that you should suppress it somehow.

00:28:42.000 You should just ignore it or suppress it.

00:28:44.000 They don't understand that for men, for a biological male, it really needs to be tackled head on.

00:28:50.000 I mean, you really need to embrace what it is to be a physical male, and it frees you in a lot of ways.

00:28:57.000 Do you think this might be a comparable moment to in the 1960s when there was a sort of a sense of sexual repression versus sexual free love?

00:29:05.000 You know, the images of Woodstock and flowers in their hair and smoking joints and having sort of sex outdoors in mud or possibly wheat.

00:29:12.000 LAUGHTER This time of, like, a kind of an anger about maleness.

00:29:17.000 And maleness may not, as you said, it may be a biological male, but it could be the energy of, I don't know, assertion or whatever.

00:29:25.000 These, like, you know, as in grammar, male and female relate to certain words, as in French grammar, where, I don't know, cat is female and dog is male.

00:29:32.000 I don't know the system.

00:29:33.000 I don't speak French.

00:29:34.000 But I'm saying that we have labelled these energies.

00:29:37.000 And it does seem that there is a particular...

00:29:41.000 What do I want to say?

00:29:42.000 A condemnation of male energy.

00:29:45.000 Do you think it comes from a misunderstanding?

00:29:47.000 Yeah, and I also think it comes from a big generalization, too.

00:29:50.000 It's easy to do, right?

00:29:52.000 And if you're a woman who's had negative experiences with men, maybe you've dated men that have been physically abusive, or maybe you've known men that have been physically abusive, and you're around that, And you just, it's very convenient and very easy to just generalize and decide that all men are negative.

00:30:08.000 Yeah.

00:30:09.000 And that masculine energy is negative, and especially white males. 0.86

00:30:12.000 And if you say that, you'll get props online.

00:30:14.000 People go, yes, girl, yes, clap, clap, clap.

00:30:17.000 People get excited.

00:30:18.000 But those are also people that are short-sighted.

00:30:20.000 Like, you want to make as many people your ally as you can.

00:30:22.000 You want to make as many people your friend as you can.

00:30:24.000 And you have to understand that there's some people that are just wired different than you.

00:30:27.000 There's some girly girls.

00:30:30.000 And there's some really feminine men.

00:30:32.000 And then there's some masculine men, but everybody is okay as long as they respect you and they're kind to each other. 0.99

00:30:39.000 But the problem is we associate certain behaviors and characteristics with either negativity or hedonism or toxic masculinity or someone being a bitch as a man. 0.96

00:30:52.000 And these generalizations are often way more harmful and it's just too convenient and easy and lazy. 0.96

00:31:01.000 Yeah, there is no simple way.

00:31:02.000 And when I think about my own attitudes in this area, there is a degree of complexity because I've got young daughters.

00:31:07.000 I've got a two-year-old and a one-year-old, right?

00:31:11.000 And they're, you know, daughters.

00:31:12.000 But the other day, because I'm staying in Los Angeles, Gabby, she's Mexican. 0.54

00:31:17.000 When I first moved out here and lived my entourage lifestyle, she used to look after the house and she used to think, oh, Oh, my baby, my baby. 0.95

00:31:25.000 She loved me.

00:31:26.000 I'll take a matriarchal figure wherever I can find one. 1.00

00:31:28.000 Gabby used to look after me.

00:31:30.000 She adored me and stuff.

00:31:30.000 I stayed friends with her.

00:31:31.000 Yesterday, she'd come around.

00:31:32.000 She bought what I can only describe as a bikini for my baby daughter. 0.99

00:31:38.000 A two-year-old doesn't need a bikini top. 0.95

00:31:43.000 Excuse me, burping on the mic.

00:31:45.000 For me, I thought, I don't want to put my daughter in that.

00:31:48.000 That's sort of, in a way, sexualising that child.

00:31:54.000 And also, a lot of the time, with my daughter, with my wife, particularly with our first child, I'm like, don't dress her up in little dresses and stuff because she won't be able to run around.

00:32:03.000 And I thought, my God, that's not that different from the cliché of a male parent that wanted a son.

00:32:09.000 And I didn't want a son.

00:32:11.000 I love this kid.

00:32:12.000 I love this kid.

00:32:13.000 I love having a daughter.

00:32:15.000 I adore her.

00:32:16.000 But I am aware that these things of dress a child this way, dress a girl this way, are constructs.

00:32:24.000 Further to what we were talking about again before, about Michelle Foucault.

00:32:26.000 We got a lot done before we went live, man.

00:32:28.000 When we were talking about Michel Foucault, what he exposes a lot is that a lot of things that we take for granted as being normal are actually constructs.

00:32:39.000 And when I say a child's bikini, there's no reason for any child of any sex or gender to be wearing a bloody bikini. 0.99

00:32:47.000 A child with tits is a terrifying idea. 0.99

00:32:50.000 For all but a very small and terrifying percentage of the population. 0.99

00:32:54.000 So that is an example of the external feminization of a child.

00:32:59.000 So when there's an argument, a feminist argument of gender is a construct, I can see, oh yeah, to a point, it is.

00:33:07.000 There are constructs.

00:33:08.000 My opinion is you can't argue with biology.

00:33:11.000 Chromosomes are doing what they're doing in the physical realm.

00:33:13.000 Yeah.

00:33:14.000 But being a father to a daughter has made me feel like I don't, obviously, and I know you have daughters or at least a daughter, three daughters, I'm certainly very aware of, I don't want to push them down some culturally prescribed avenue,

00:33:30.000 whether it's about their dress, their sexuality or anything.

00:33:33.000 So I've got, where am I on that dial?

00:33:36.000 Yeah, you gotta just not put any pressure on them and let them enjoy their life and let them find their path.

00:33:44.000 That's what's weird, right?

00:33:45.000 It's like I see people, they're getting their daughters to dress very, very feminine with little mini skirts and stuff and they're five years old and high heel shoes.

00:33:56.000 I've seen little kids with high heel shoes.

00:33:58.000 It's very strange to me.

00:34:00.000 I don't like it.

00:34:01.000 Yeah, but for me, that is being sourced from.

00:34:05.000 We can extrapolate that to, then why should a 20-year-old woman wear high heels? 1.00

00:34:09.000 I mean, I've read cultural analysis, I'm sure you have, of like, well, the lipstick is to emphasise the lips because it's redolent of the vagina. 1.00

00:34:18.000 The high heels is to make a woman seem more vulnerable and to accentuate aspects of body shape. 1.00

00:34:23.000 Now, this can be seen as evidence of the influence of patriarchy. 0.96

00:34:27.000 There's loads of areas where I feel like Why are we looking for shit to argue about in this area? 0.95

00:34:31.000 We're just human beings. 0.95

00:34:32.000 Most of us are the most important people in our life of a different gender or sex to us.

00:34:38.000 You know, why are we looking for arguments?

00:34:40.000 But you can see the influence of cultural forces that are, you know, not neutral.

00:34:47.000 Yeah, you certainly can, but I think it should be up to the choice of the person once they're an adult.

00:34:51.000 The real problem is putting pressure on them to dress one way or another and not letting them find their place.

00:34:56.000 But if a woman becomes whatever age you decide and she wants to wear high heels and a skirt because she likes the way it looks, there's nothing wrong with that either. 1.00

00:35:04.000 No.

00:35:07.000 The demonization of sexuality is also a problem.

00:35:10.000 It is almost as much of a problem as people who will prey upon vulnerable people.

00:35:18.000 People that think there's something wrong with being sexually attractive or something wrong with being desirable or wanting to be desirable.

00:35:26.000 There's nothing wrong with that either.

00:35:27.000 And that kind of suppression, the suppression of these feelings that you have and this desire that you have, it's very unhealthy as well.

00:35:34.000 It's a normal thing to want to be sexual.

00:35:37.000 It's a normal thing to want to look good. 0.99

00:35:39.000 If a girl looks good in a skirt and high heels and she likes to dress like that, who the fuck is anyone to say is there anything wrong with that? 0.99

00:35:46.000 There's nothing wrong with it. 0.99

00:35:48.000 If that's what she likes, that's fine.

00:35:50.000 Which is interesting to me is...

00:35:53.000 Particularly in really progressive ideology, they look down upon women who wear short skirts and high heels and a lot of makeup and, you know, open tops that show their boobs because they think that they're playing into the patriarchy or that they're somehow or another falling into these gender traps.

00:36:16.000 But yet they celebrate that in transgender people. 1.00

00:36:19.000 They celebrate that in trans men that transition to women, and then they really doll it up. 0.82

00:36:25.000 Then they're like, you go, girl. 0.86

00:36:26.000 Then they're celebrating the fact that this person is embracing these traditional aspects of womanhood.

00:36:32.000 You see that a lot with people that are celebrating trans women.

00:36:37.000 I find it very fascinating.

00:36:39.000 The aesthetics of what perhaps could be referred to as sexualised dress, or I suppose in males, expressive or garish clothing, jewellery, tattoos.

00:36:53.000 I understand in British culture that these are often indicators of class.

00:36:58.000 That it's typically the lower down the class structure you are, the more likely you are to dress in a way that is exhibitive or like, you know, women from a blue collar background dress in ways that are exposing and revealing men have leery cars and lots of tattoos and jewellery.

00:37:17.000 Expressive ways of demonstrating wealth.

00:37:19.000 The higher you go up, the class, the more subtle, the more dressed down, no labels, all that sort of stuff.

00:37:24.000 In British culture, there's a different system for referencing it.

00:37:29.000 I wonder how that works in American culture with its evident and much-discussed racial divisions, like certain things.

00:37:37.000 It seems like a subtle way of condemning particular types of womanhood that may not just be sourced from dress this way for the male gaze.

00:37:46.000 It can also be a way of saying dressing that way is an indication of a lower class background or of a particular type of ethnicity.

00:37:54.000 There could be that, but there's also the reality of males and females. 0.99

00:37:58.000 There's a lot of fucking jealous people. 0.98

00:38:00.000 And there's a lot of women that just don't have the type of physical body that looks good in a short skirt with high heels and a low-cut shirt. 1.00

00:38:10.000 And they don't like when they see it in other women because they're not comfortable with their own bodies.

00:38:15.000 There's a reality of that.

00:38:17.000 I mean, women get as much or more hate from women as they ever do from men.

00:38:21.000 And particularly if women find you to be too overtly sexual with the way you dress or behave, that you're damaging male-female relationships.

00:38:33.000 You're damaging the dynamic, particularly office dynamics.

00:38:36.000 If there's one girl in the office that likes to tramp it up and all the guys are paying attention to her, women will get mad at her. 1.00

00:38:43.000 I did an interview a while ago where I sort of talked about, like, parenting our kids, me and my wife, how we parent our kids, and I said, like, you know, I have to be honest, my wife is much the more dominant parent.

00:38:56.000 She's much more practical than I am, right?

00:38:58.000 And, like, stuff that got, like, really negatively written about.

00:39:02.000 People say, like, oh, she changes more diapers than I do and stuff, right? 0.95

00:39:05.000 Not like I don't change diapers or whatever.

00:39:08.000 It's just my wife, you know, regardless of our respective sexes, is the more efficient, dominant parent she's much more likely with. 1.00

00:39:16.000 Like, with me, if my daughter goes, I want that chocolate, the answer from me is, oh, yeah, all right.

00:39:21.000 You know, like, I can't.

00:39:22.000 I see the resistance, the emotional explosion.

00:39:26.000 I concede much too early.

00:39:27.000 I tap out very quickly with my two-year-old.

00:39:30.000 My wife is much more, no, let's play the long game, let's bring up a child that's not governed by impulses like you. 0.99

00:39:36.000 And I spoke, in fact, to that Gabor Mate, that expert on addiction. 0.89

00:39:38.000 He's amazing.

00:39:40.000 And he says, because of your own anxiety and pain from your own childhood, with no disrespect to my magnificent parents, like, you can't handle seeing your kid suffer.

00:39:49.000 So you, like, straight away, you bail and do what she wants and stuff.

00:39:53.000 Now, like, so there's so much complexity in the reality of our personal little domestic relationship.

00:39:59.000 And I'm certainly not saying, and everyone else should run their household in that manner as well.

00:40:03.000 And so help me God, any man that changes it up.

00:40:06.000 You know, but the way it was reported is like, that's what...

00:40:09.000 What happens, I think, in modern media is they change what you say, then you have to defend what they said you said.

00:40:14.000 And you go, well, that ain't what I meant.

00:40:16.000 I'm not saying that because my wife is a woman, she should take more domestic... 0.99

00:40:20.000 I'm just saying that in our household, she seems to have a set of attributes and characteristics that make her take control of that aspect of parenting. 0.92

00:40:27.000 And it's like the desire to judge, condemn, and object is the priority as opposed to...

00:40:34.000 No one's looking to go, oh, who cares or what, you know.

00:41:06.000 Well, it's also that they're Self-deprecating to yourself.

00:41:10.000 They're not looking at things rationally.

00:41:13.000 They're just looking at targets.

00:41:14.000 Particularly people that write articles.

00:41:17.000 What's the best article?

00:41:18.000 It's got to be negative.

00:41:19.000 One of the things that came out of all this Facebook algorithm stuff is you find out that Facebook realized somewhere early on that the way to...

00:41:29.000 Encourage engagement is to get people upset.

00:41:32.000 They get way more engaged, and they go back and forth and interact with these posts way more if they're upset than they do if they agree with it.

00:41:42.000 If they agree with it, they might give it a like or a thumbs up and say, hey, that's great, and that's it.

00:41:45.000 That's where it ends. 0.98

00:41:46.000 But if, you know, someone's talking about, you know, we shouldn't build the wall, we should let everyone in, and you put that on some fucking Trump guy's page, and they, ah! 0.99

00:41:54.000 It's crazy. 0.96

00:41:55.000 I mean, you will get thousands and thousands and thousands of interactions.

00:41:59.000 And so Facebook realized that the way to keep people...

00:42:02.000 And, you know, they could claim that it's an algorithm, and the algorithm just supports whatever the people are really interested in.

00:42:08.000 But what they're interested in is conflict.

00:42:11.000 That demonstrates my earlier point, which I made up on the spot, that AI is not a neutral thing.

00:42:17.000 It is resourced from human perspectives, because that is a type of AI, not as complex as what we're going to experience, and I can't even imagine.

00:42:24.000 But what I'm saying is it's still...

00:42:27.000 What I want to say, resourced from a human perspective.

00:42:31.000 And yes, of course, we are evolved to respond more strongly to negativity than positivity for loads of reasons.

00:42:38.000 And I think that's where we can stitch back to what we were saying about taking personal responsibility for who you are. 1.00

00:42:44.000 Like that none of us after sit on social media going, fuck you, fuck you. 1.00

00:42:49.000 None of us have to do that. 1.00

00:42:50.000 We can try and resolve those.

00:42:52.000 I respect that some people don't have any other outlets.

00:42:54.000 They don't have the privileges I have of being able to go to support groups where people openly talk about, this is the ways that I felt inferior today.

00:43:01.000 This is the ways that I'm trying to become a better man and a better father and a better co-worker.

00:43:06.000 A lot of people aren't afforded those environments and probably the best shot they got is having a go at someone online and those people, in a way, deserve love and sympathy.

00:43:14.000 But until we...

00:43:16.000 On some level, recognize that we can alter our own behaviors.

00:43:20.000 We can alter our own consciousness.

00:43:22.000 I don't see how there's going to be...

00:43:25.000 Well, at least then we can create a terrain upon which better systems can start to flourish.

00:43:31.000 Do you read comments?

00:43:33.000 No.

00:43:33.000 I actually...

00:43:36.000 I'm too sensitive.

00:43:37.000 I can just about manage to listen to people's replies to my conversation.

00:43:42.000 I don't go on to...

00:43:44.000 I work with someone who does my social media and she gives me stuff like, here, I'll respond to these things, put some output on that.

00:43:52.000 Because I don't want to engage with that.

00:43:55.000 I don't want to walk up and down any street knocking on the door going, do you like me?

00:43:59.000 Do you like me?

00:44:00.000 Do you like me?

00:44:00.000 I don't want to deal with people's responses in various conditions.

00:44:03.000 Well, it's also much like the articles.

00:44:05.000 The way people get a response out of you or the way people get your reaction is to say something really negative.

00:44:11.000 You look at some...

00:44:12.000 Sometimes when people are not that savvy when it comes to social media, one of the things that you'll notice is they'll interact...

00:44:19.000 And I've been guilty of this in the past before I sort of realized what I was doing.

00:44:23.000 You would only respond to negative things.

00:44:25.000 People are arguing with people.

00:44:27.000 Meanwhile, people are saying nice things to you and you ignore them.

00:44:30.000 It's because you don't...

00:44:32.000 At a certain level, you don't have the physical time.

00:44:35.000 It doesn't exist to respond to everyone.

00:44:37.000 It's not possible. 0.94

00:44:38.000 If you get 13,000 comments on one of your posts, how the fuck does anyone have time to respond to 13,000 people? 0.97

00:44:48.000 You can't. 0.70

00:44:48.000 And then you have email and you have Twitter and Facebook and Instagram. 0.70

00:44:52.000 There's no way.

00:44:53.000 There's not enough time in this world.

00:44:55.000 So you personally would have responded to things that caused them more visceral... 1.00

00:45:00.000 Yeah, if I saw someone saying something that was untrue, I'd be like, fuck you, that's untrue. 0.99

00:45:02.000 But then I realized, why? 0.99

00:45:04.000 What are you doing?

00:45:06.000 This is a new thing for people.

00:45:08.000 There's never been a time where people have had this instantaneous interaction with people, unfiltered, unmoderated, globally.

00:45:17.000 I mean, it's very strange to be able to do that and to be able to go back and forth and Just to be able to give your comments on things, to be able to talk about things.

00:45:26.000 It's very addictive to people.

00:45:28.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:45:29.000 And that's why I'm very cautious with it.

00:45:31.000 I have to sort of set my life out like I'm essentially a monk in a marriage.

00:45:36.000 That's basically where I live.

00:45:38.000 Get up, meditate, do yoga, do exercises, do things that are positive for you, watch the way that you're thinking.

00:45:45.000 I'm interested in where, again, with your own...

00:45:50.000 Do you feel...

00:46:06.000 Welcome to my show!

00:46:11.000 But in unavoidable dynamics, the unnecessary dynamics, like, you know, as a father and dealing with colleagues and stuff like that, do you experience a lot of tension, anxiety?

00:46:22.000 What has happened to that guy?

00:46:24.000 Do you feel that you have transcended that?

00:46:26.000 Because I do, in my own life, feel like, yeah, I'm not the adolescent boy I was.

00:46:29.000 I've, like, you know, I've learned from that, and I still, in a very sort of COD psychological way, you know, when I'm doing Hibiro, that's the BJJ classes I'm doing over here with Professor Ricardo Wilk.

00:46:40.000 He's an amazing guy.

00:46:41.000 Like, when I'm doing those classes, I have a sense of fathering my child self, of like, you know, because I weren't doing those kind of things when I was a kid.

00:46:50.000 I'm like, it's all right, Russell, we're just in a BJJ class.

00:46:53.000 Just relax.

00:46:54.000 Don't need to panic.

00:46:55.000 Don't need to impress anybody.

00:46:56.000 If you don't know, just ask.

00:46:58.000 I've got a voice in myself.

00:47:00.000 Because I chatted to Tony Robbins.

00:47:01.000 You know, he's like another, obviously, high-achieving guy who I admire and respect a great deal.

00:47:06.000 And like, you know, when he talks, he does like these cold plunges. 0.99

00:47:08.000 And he says, before I get in that plunge, I'm like, You're getting in that fucking plunge! 0.99

00:47:12.000 My god, I don't talk to myself. 0.99

00:47:14.000 I'm like, right, Russell, we're going to get in the cold plunge.

00:47:16.000 I have to talk to myself gently.

00:47:18.000 What are you doing with that aspect of yourself?

00:47:21.000 Do you still have a relationship with it?

00:47:22.000 When you're doing all these psychedelic, cosmonautic explorations of the psyche, are you not encountering aspects of yourself that are undeveloped, unaddressed?

00:47:32.000 There's always going to be unaddressed and undeveloped aspects of yourself, but I'm very, very, very different to who I was when I was a young boy.

00:47:39.000 I mean, I'm not 100% self-actualized.

00:47:44.000 I don't think anybody is.

00:47:45.000 But I'm just a totally different human being.

00:47:47.000 I remember it, but I remember it with humor.

00:47:50.000 Like, I remember it and I laugh. 0.92

00:47:51.000 I'm like, wow, so silly. 0.65

00:47:53.000 I was so weird back then.

00:47:55.000 And, you know, with life experience and developing confidence and understanding of who you are and why you had those feelings and why you were insecure and why you had so much self-doubt, martial arts helped me with that tremendously.

00:48:10.000 Because it was the first thing that I ever did where I didn't feel like a loser.

00:48:13.000 It's like the first thing that I ever did where people respected me and they liked me for it.

00:48:18.000 I'm like, wow.

00:48:19.000 It was a feeling that I was completely unused to in the 14 previous years of my life.

00:48:25.000 All of a sudden there was this...

00:48:27.000 This feeling that I was unusual.

00:48:29.000 I was unique.

00:48:30.000 I was special.

00:48:31.000 Wow.

00:48:31.000 I was appreciated.

00:48:33.000 You were good at it quick, wasn't it?

00:48:34.000 Yeah.

00:48:34.000 I had a natural inclination towards it.

00:48:37.000 Oh, amazing.

00:48:38.000 And I was obsessed with it.

00:48:39.000 So I was training every day, all day long.

00:48:43.000 And then my instructor recognized it really early on.

00:48:46.000 So he allowed me to train there for free.

00:48:49.000 And just I would teach classes.

00:48:50.000 And teaching classes helped me a lot as well.

00:48:52.000 Because when you're teaching...

00:48:54.000 You're breaking down techniques, and when you're showing someone how to do it, you're really cementing those pathways in your own mind.

00:49:02.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:49:04.000 That must be an important step on the road to mastery.

00:49:06.000 I see that clip where Eddie Bravo gave you your black belt, and you were very moved by that.

00:49:12.000 So for me, moments like that, It must connect you to the beginning of the journey.

00:49:18.000 Yeah, that does.

00:49:19.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:49:20.000 And still, you know, the journey of jiu-jitsu is a fascinating one because unless you're someone who's, you know, a Salo Hibero or a John Jock Machado or just a true master who's dedicated their entire life to it, the journey's so long.

00:49:34.000 It's so long.

00:49:35.000 It's like if you're a guy who runs...

00:49:37.000 I like to run a mile three or four days a week.

00:49:39.000 No big deal.

00:49:40.000 But then your next door neighbor is an ultra-marathon runner who's preparing for the MOAB 240 where he's going to run 240 miles.

00:49:47.000 You're never going to catch up the same amount of times.

00:49:50.000 You should always defer to that person when you have questions about running.

00:49:54.000 And that's how it is with jiu-jitsu.

00:49:56.000 Yeah, I'm a black belt, but I'm not a black belt like John Jack Machado is a black belt.

00:50:00.000 There's levels even to that.

00:50:02.000 So I always have questions.

00:50:03.000 So the journey is never over.

00:50:05.000 It's always long.

00:50:06.000 There's always a better way to get out of an arm bar or a better way to set up a triangle or whatever it is.

00:50:12.000 One of the beautiful things about jiu-jitsu is that it's so complex.

00:50:16.000 There's so many variables.

00:50:18.000 There's so many situations and interactions and exchanges and Entries and defenses and a way to chain moves together and the correct way to set something up two, three steps ahead to know that if you grab the lapel this way, the guy's going to try to shake it off that way and that exposes this which exposes that and then the next defense will expose this and then you keep going and going and going and going until you get them.

00:50:41.000 It's so beautiful to watch that because it's like as if there's a pre-existing net or grid of interrelated signs that will work together.

00:50:51.000 And like as a white belt, I've got three stripes now.

00:50:54.000 I was really hoping that by the time I came back on here, I would have a blue belt.

00:50:59.000 Are you closing in on that?

00:51:01.000 How often are you training?

00:51:02.000 I'm training three times a week privates and I'm attending two classes and what I've done...

00:51:07.000 That's great.

00:51:07.000 Thanks a lot.

00:51:08.000 And what's a significant step for me is like now in the classes when I'm sparring people I don't try just in the handshake to manipulate them into going easy.

00:51:17.000 God, you look so lovely today.

00:51:19.000 Alright, off we go then.

00:51:21.000 Will you try to manipulate people?

00:51:23.000 Yeah, like just a subtle gesture or something like that.

00:51:25.000 Right, right, right.

00:51:26.000 Just try to take it easy on me.

00:51:28.000 Come on, don't hurt me.

00:51:30.000 Do you avoid big people?

00:51:33.000 Yeah, sometimes I try and stay down that white belt end of the room, but now the more I do it, the more they coax me up there. 1.00

00:51:39.000 Great big giant men, like there's a guy that goes, the hard end purple belt and above, Dave, Paul Busby, and there's people, their hands and their feet look different to my hands and feet.

00:51:53.000 Their hands and feet are as different from mine as mine are to my daughter's.

00:51:57.000 Right.

00:51:58.000 And I feel like, how am I supposed to ever do anything with these people?

00:52:01.000 Like hard water.

00:52:03.000 Like drowning in hard water.

00:52:04.000 The way they move and fold around me.

00:52:07.000 What am I supposed to do?

00:52:10.000 And my breathing goes.

00:52:12.000 But the thing is with other white belts is that what I feel is like there is my ego comes back in. 1.00

00:52:19.000 Because there's how I feel like, no, I should be getting something.

00:52:21.000 The first time I got choked out by another white belt, I felt like, I went into a room I'd not been in since I was 16, getting my head kicked in in bus stops, you know, and stuff like that. 1.00

00:52:30.000 I felt like I was quiet for 24 hours, just sitting and reflecting on, oh shit, and I had to speak to other people, like, this is a combat sport, this happens, you're going to experience, right, right, so it doesn't mean I'm a bad person. 0.62

00:52:43.000 That I've failed. 0.90

00:52:45.000 No, no, you're going to have to get used to that if you're going to be doing this.

00:52:48.000 Yeah, you get used to humiliation.

00:52:49.000 You get used to defeat, but that humbling is very good for you.

00:52:53.000 I don't know how many times I've been tapped out in my life, but it's probably more than a thousand.

00:52:58.000 Yeah.

00:52:59.000 Probably thousands.

00:53:01.000 Yeah, and you sit there while I'll tell you about Jiu Jitsu.

00:53:05.000 And the other thing that's been good about it is when it is the other way.

00:53:10.000 I remember a guy that was a big guy on top of me, and he was in Mount, right?

00:53:16.000 And he wasn't actually applying a submission, but just the sheer discomfort of having someone there, their body, their sweat, their Their hair, their abdomen, their reproductive organs, their digestive system, feces in their bowel on top of me.

00:53:32.000 I just nearly tapped out of that.

00:53:33.000 But then he went to move to get an arm bar and I thought, hang on a second.

00:53:37.000 There's a moment and I managed to escape from that. 1.00

00:53:40.000 And like the amount of energy that that released was like, fuck you! 1.00

00:53:44.000 Justice! 1.00

00:53:46.000 Now I win!

00:53:49.000 Justice.

00:53:51.000 That's hilarious.

00:53:52.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:53:52.000 It's a very satisfying feeling.

00:53:54.000 It's also very satisfying to defend against something that someone used to catch you with.

00:53:59.000 Like, say, if someone's really good at taking your back and they choked you a couple times, and then one time they take your back, but you defend and you get out.

00:54:05.000 You're like, I got out.

00:54:06.000 Yes.

00:54:07.000 Like, oh, there's an escape.

00:54:08.000 I can make this.

00:54:09.000 I'm getting better.

00:54:10.000 I love being in the cave, that mental space, because my technique was, oh, I'm not good at that.

00:54:16.000 Never bother trying.

00:54:18.000 I'm not good at that kind of stuff, never bother trying.

00:54:20.000 So for me, at this stage in my life, to go and do something that I'm not good at, that's with other men, that's competitive, that involves so much vulnerability and failure and learning, I'm thinking, well, you're growing.

00:54:31.000 You've got to be growing because you're doing stuff that you never would have done before.

00:54:34.000 Even turning up at a new place like I'm doing here in LA and making those new relationships and doing that, you know, it's amazing for me.

00:54:41.000 Another thing I'm into is the integrity of it, right?

00:54:44.000 Because Chris Clear, a black belt under Roger Gracie, right, in the UK, my teacher, like, if he gave me a blue belt, that would look good, man.

00:54:53.000 It would be videoed, I would tweet it, it would be everywhere. 0.99

00:54:56.000 Oh, Russell Brand got a blue belt, this shit must work. 0.99

00:54:58.000 But no, he doesn't do it out of integrity and respect for that. 0.99

00:55:02.000 You know, it means more to him, evidently, than the act of kindness.

00:55:08.000 It's nice to belong to something that has protected and valuable systems.

00:55:12.000 He did say to me, you keep going by the end of the year.

00:55:14.000 Blue belt, I think.

00:55:15.000 But it's not dished out.

00:55:18.000 It's nice to know that there's some kind of order.

00:55:20.000 An area where celebrity, manipulation, charm, humor, none of those things, all redundant.

00:55:24.000 No, in jujitsu, it's very protected.

00:55:27.000 Anyone that gives out a bad belt, it's very bad for their integrity.

00:55:31.000 The school would lose face so badly in the community.

00:55:36.000 And you meet someone who's a Hicks and Gracie brown belt. 1.00

00:55:41.000 That motherfucker's a Hicks and Gracie brown belt. 1.00

00:55:44.000 He's as legit as they get. 1.00

00:55:46.000 They don't get any more legit.

00:55:47.000 Like, if you got to that point of Hicks and Gracie gives you a brown belt, it's irrefutable.

00:55:53.000 And that's how it should be.

00:55:55.000 And it's a beautiful thing about the art form, is that it has this self-correcting sort of aspect to it that...

00:56:01.000 When you roll, when you spar with each other, your ability or lack of is exposed and there's no other way around it.

00:56:09.000 Yeah, that's good to not avoid that.

00:56:11.000 It's good not to avoid that reality.

00:56:13.000 But you'll be better.

00:56:14.000 You're a fit guy.

00:56:16.000 You're a healthy guy. 1.00

00:56:17.000 If you just keep going, get off that fucking vegan diet and keep going... 0.99

00:56:21.000 I watched a documentary called What the Health, have you seen it? 1.00

00:56:25.000 Yeah, it's filled with a lot of propaganda and nonsense. 0.99

00:56:28.000 Ah, propaganda, damn, those guys again, like the Nazis, I remember them. 0.98

00:56:31.000 Well, they used a lot of discredited studies, and there's a lot of epidemiology studies that'll connect things. 0.99

00:56:39.000 Epidemiology, what does that mean, like an epidemic or something?

00:56:42.000 No, we could pull up the actual definition of epidemiology, but the way I would describe it is they would do these studies and essentially they would ask you what you eat on a daily basis, how often do you eat meat,

00:56:57.000 and it's basically a survey.

00:56:59.000 And in that survey, they would say, well, there's a direct correlation between people that eat meat and diabetes.

00:57:05.000 So let's pull up the definitions.

00:57:07.000 Oh, I see.

00:57:08.000 But the problem is, what is causing, here, a branch of medicine which deals with incidence, distribution, and possible control of diseases and other factors relating to health.

00:57:20.000 So when they're dealing with incidents, right?

00:57:24.000 They're dealing with how often do you eat red meat?

00:57:27.000 How often do you eat this?

00:57:28.000 How often do you eat that?

00:57:28.000 And then they find, oh, well, there's more instances of diabetes in people that eat meat.

00:57:33.000 Okay.

00:57:34.000 But is it people that eat meat and vegetables?

00:57:36.000 Or is it people that eat meat and vegetables and Diet Coke and sugary sodas and ice cream and french fries?

00:57:44.000 And how are they eating their meat? 0.99

00:57:45.000 Are they eating cheeseburgers from some bullshit fast food place? 0.99

00:57:48.000 Or are they eating grass-fed steak? 1.00

00:57:50.000 Are they eating grass-fed steak and vegetables?

00:57:53.000 And there's very little evidence that shows there's anything wrong with eating meat if you follow a normal, healthy, what they would call a primal diet.

00:58:01.000 Yeah.

00:58:03.000 Cut out all the grains.

00:58:04.000 Cut out all the sugar. 1.00

00:58:05.000 Cut out all the bullshit. 1.00

00:58:06.000 Eat vegetables and meat. 1.00

00:58:08.000 And there's almost nothing.

00:58:10.000 I mean, unless you have some very unusual, rare condition where you're either allergic to meat or you have some very strange digestive system where you have allergies to it or you have...

00:58:23.000 We're good to go.

00:58:42.000 For people physically is the modern American diet, and that's been pretty established. 0.98

00:58:46.000 Yes, that's right, and there are clear ethical reasons to be vegan in that it takes you out of the exploitation of animals, but that documentary, Water Health that I watched was like, you know, and I've been vegetarian for years, and this, and I've gone back and forth to veganism because I feel, God, Jesus Christ, man, there's enough things in my life I'm not doing without not being able to have an egg Without feeling guilty for fuck's sake.

00:59:04.000 But you could have pasture-raised eggs if you get them from a good farm. 0.86

00:59:06.000 The chickens are just hanging out, man.

00:59:08.000 I've got chickens in my garden.

00:59:09.000 I'm not confident in these animals.

00:59:11.000 Why?

00:59:11.000 Well, one by one, slowly, my dog's eliminating the gift of life.

00:59:16.000 I've had that a few times.

00:59:18.000 Terrible feeling.

00:59:18.000 I lost nine of them to coyotes just last month, maybe two months ago.

00:59:22.000 That's a pretty heavy death toll.

00:59:23.000 It was a heavy toll, yeah.

00:59:25.000 Well, we had a fire out here, and the chicken coop burnt down.

00:59:27.000 We got a smaller chicken coop, and the coyotes figured out how to get into it when we weren't home.

00:59:31.000 And we came home to just feathers everywhere.

00:59:33.000 It was disgusting.

00:59:34.000 Ah, it's brutal. 0.99

00:59:35.000 They're brutal little monsters, those coyotes.

00:59:37.000 Yeah, yeah, they're ungovernable. 0.71

00:59:40.000 They're the reason why we don't have rats everywhere, too.

00:59:42.000 Alright, so yeah, it's the circle of life.

00:59:44.000 The Lion King was right.

00:59:45.000 So, hey, though, the thing about that vegan documentary, mate, is that it tuned in to my pre-existing belief when it said stuff like, oh, the Diabetes Association, they are funded by these meat and dairy organizations and these pharmaceutical companies.

01:00:02.000 The cancer organization similarly accepts donations from these organizations.

01:00:07.000 And it made me...

01:00:09.000 My pre-existing idea that I come to it with is that whole pyramid of these are the things you should eat.

01:00:15.000 Bread, milk, just were the things that were easy and cheap to produce and that were profitable.

01:00:20.000 But they used to think that.

01:00:22.000 They really did used to think that bread and grains were the most important thing.

01:00:25.000 Do you think they felt that?

01:00:26.000 I think they did.

01:00:27.000 I think they thought it was filling and it provided energy and I don't think they understood.

01:00:32.000 Well, there was no talk of gluten intolerance when we were young.

01:00:35.000 It didn't exist.

01:00:35.000 And there was no understanding of excess carbs and how excess carbs leads to excess body weight and makes you store fat.

01:00:45.000 People didn't think about it that way.

01:00:46.000 They didn't understand.

01:00:48.000 The thing about nutrition is that nutrition science is a body of knowledge that's constantly added to it.

01:00:54.000 Yeah, and in fact, perhaps most things are.

01:00:56.000 Who knows what misapprehensions and ignorance we toil under that will be revealed to us.

01:01:02.000 Do you do any, I feel like I've heard you talk about hormone stuff?

01:01:07.000 Yeah, yeah, I do hormone replacement therapy.

01:01:09.000 What type of things?

01:01:10.000 Testosterone and human growth hormone. 1.00

01:01:12.000 Do you have to give yourself a jab in the ass? 1.00

01:01:14.000 Yeah, in the thigh. 1.00

01:01:15.000 Thigh. 0.99

01:01:16.000 You won't do the ass out of simple pride. 0.99

01:01:18.000 No, it doesn't matter. 0.99

01:01:19.000 That's for Mrs. Rogan.

01:01:22.000 I don't touch that.

01:01:24.000 Your thigh's right there. 0.96

01:01:25.000 It's easy to grab. 1.00

01:01:26.000 When you're reaching back to putting your ass, it's just like an awkward thing. 1.00

01:01:30.000 Too vulnerable. 1.00

01:01:32.000 Yeah, but they also have...

01:01:34.000 You're taking growth hormone?

01:01:37.000 You've not noticed any negative side effects or instability?

01:01:41.000 No.

01:01:41.000 Well, you have to get your blood monitored.

01:01:42.000 When you're doing something like that, this is also if you're a person that has addictive problems, addiction problems, which I don't necessarily have them as much with substances.

01:01:51.000 What do you have them with?

01:01:53.000 Well, you saw it with video games.

01:01:55.000 You got here with the video game problem that I have.

01:01:57.000 Yeah, you're frantic.

01:01:58.000 You emerged out of that dark room.

01:01:59.000 You and your pals sweaty and pie-eyed and baffled by the real world.

01:02:03.000 Well, it's very fun, too.

01:02:05.000 Martial arts.

01:02:06.000 I've been addicted to martial arts.

01:02:07.000 I've been addicted to playing pool.

01:02:09.000 I get addicted to getting good at things.

01:02:11.000 I get very addicted to things.

01:02:13.000 If there's something that I get obsessed with, like jujitsu or whatever it is, I get obsessed.

01:02:17.000 And that's all I think about all day long.

01:02:19.000 I just, you know, it's not healthy.

01:02:22.000 But with hormones, you want to make sure that you don't overdose yourself.

01:02:27.000 You want to make sure that you stay within a very narrow range where you have what are the healthy levels of a person that's in their late 20s.

01:02:40.000 That's really what you want.

01:02:42.000 You don't want to have hyperhuman levels, which some people do do.

01:02:46.000 Hyperhuman, you're gonna create an odd ecosystem. 1.00

01:02:49.000 Well, you're fucking up your body, man. 1.00

01:02:50.000 You're just jolting yourself with all this extra shit. 1.00

01:02:53.000 What are you about to take? 1.00

01:02:56.000 Sweet lady thyroid.

01:02:57.000 Is that part of your system?

01:02:59.000 Yeah, I have...

01:03:00.000 I take armor thyroid.

01:03:02.000 It's actually made from pig's thyroids.

01:03:04.000 What do you mean pig's thyroids now?

01:03:06.000 Yeah.

01:03:07.000 Hold on, what's happened to the pig? 0.99

01:03:09.000 Dead, dead. 0.95

01:03:10.000 They're long gone.

01:03:10.000 They're not sort of struggling with a lack of thyroid.

01:03:13.000 Yeah, that's a wrap.

01:03:14.000 Teetering about all emasculated.

01:03:16.000 Well, this is like...

01:03:17.000 So, yeah, I'm interested in this hormone stuff.

01:03:19.000 I'm interested in that.

01:03:20.000 But, you know, me, I've got to be very, very...

01:03:23.000 Cautious about mood-altering stuff.

01:03:26.000 Yeah.

01:03:26.000 But if you have the exercise regimen that you're talking about, I don't think you're going to have an issue with that.

01:03:31.000 Got to get that blue belt.

01:03:32.000 I'm going to do what it takes, man.

01:03:35.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:03:36.000 Bring me the pig. 0.99

01:03:37.000 It'll help you. 0.99

01:03:37.000 I'll suck that thyroid out of it directly. 0.99

01:03:39.000 You should eat eggs, though, man. 0.98

01:03:40.000 You really should.

01:03:41.000 You should eat some animal protein without, I mean, if you oppose the moral aspect of killing an animal, which I totally understand and appreciate, and that's what led me to become a hunter in the first place, is that I was really uncomfortable watching these animal rights videos of Factory farming.

01:03:57.000 I thought it was disgusting.

01:03:57.000 I was like, I don't want to participate in this.

01:03:59.000 Yeah, it's reprehensible.

01:04:00.000 Hunting is a different thing, man.

01:04:02.000 To me, hunting is this intense...

01:04:03.000 It's very spiritual in a way.

01:04:06.000 I mean, people don't get it because they see you celebrating when it's over because...

01:04:09.000 It's very, very, very difficult to close in on a wild animal.

01:04:13.000 What are you hunting?

01:04:14.000 Mostly elk.

01:04:15.000 Well, elk's my favorite for two reasons.

01:04:17.000 One, it's very delicious, super nutritious.

01:04:20.000 Also, if I shoot one elk, I can eat it for like eight months.

01:04:23.000 What are you doing, freezing them?

01:04:25.000 Yeah, freezing them, freezing them.

01:04:27.000 So you're out stalking an elk on the plains.

01:04:30.000 Where are you?

01:04:31.000 Like near where you live?

01:04:32.000 Utah.

01:04:32.000 Do you travel on bikes or something?

01:04:34.000 How do you follow them?

01:04:36.000 Yeah, we do travel on bikes if you whitetail hunt.

01:04:39.000 A lot of times you'll go into the woods with bikes because they don't leave a scent the way your feet do.

01:04:43.000 You know, and animals don't associate the sound of a bike the way they associate it with, like, the sound of stepping, bipedal hominids stepping towards them. 0.99

01:04:51.000 Wow, they've evolved, right?

01:04:52.000 Uh-oh, bipedal.

01:04:53.000 Yeah, they see you on a bike, they don't even freak out as much.

01:04:56.000 Delightful.

01:04:56.000 Never seen that before.

01:04:57.000 They're like, what's that?

01:04:57.000 Ow, my brain!

01:04:58.000 What are these things?

01:04:59.000 Yeah.

01:05:00.000 So, elk, are they, like, herd animals?

01:05:02.000 Do you see, like, a herd of them?

01:05:03.000 Yeah.

01:05:04.000 Yeah, you see a herd of them and try to figure out which way the wind's blowing and you try to get close to them.

01:05:09.000 Is this a video of us?

01:05:10.000 Yeah, this is a video of us from...

01:05:11.000 What a beautiful place.

01:05:12.000 I mean, I can see the harmony of nature.

01:05:14.000 Yeah, so that's an elk.

01:05:16.000 Now, the thing is with me, I see that elk there, and I sort of feel like I've watched too much Disney.

01:05:24.000 I see that elk, and I feel like I'm Bambi, literally.

01:05:27.000 I don't have it.

01:05:29.000 Is that early in the morning?

01:05:30.000 You look tired.

01:05:32.000 Not tired.

01:05:33.000 It might be late afternoon, actually.

01:05:34.000 I think that was late afternoon.

01:05:36.000 Yeah.

01:05:36.000 Like, see, like, I, from that position, I couldn't, like, I would love the game of being able to aim, because actually I've had to go down gun ranges, it turns out I'm a pretty good shot, and it's nice to see that thing come back with, like, holes around its abdomen and its head, and I think,

01:05:52.000 satisfied there.

01:05:53.000 You've been dealt with, paper man.

01:05:55.000 But, like, the elk, I couldn't, I've got too much empathy in me that I couldn't deal with the feeling of...

01:06:03.000 After it was shot, almost thinking about it, the sentimentality of it.

01:06:07.000 I've sentimentalised it.

01:06:09.000 Now, at least I don't eat meat and stuff like that, so it's not like I have all those feelings but can handle it in a packaged, portioned-off way.

01:06:16.000 It's just I feel too much like, oh, that creature.

01:06:19.000 So in your head, when you're doing it, when you're pulling the trigger, you're not having...

01:06:23.000 What's going on in your mind?

01:06:25.000 Well, you only are hunting these mature animals that have already passed on their genes.

01:06:31.000 You also are recognizing that if you're not killing these things, it's not like they're going to live forever.

01:06:38.000 They live a short life, a short life with a very violent death.

01:06:43.000 It's either wolves or mountain lions or bears or something's going to take them out.

01:06:47.000 Yeah.

01:06:47.000 What you're doing is essentially dipping your toe into the natural world.

01:06:51.000 And I've heard the argument that, well, this is ridiculous because everyone can't do that.

01:06:56.000 You know, if everyone went out and hunted all the animals, there would be no animals left, which is true.

01:07:01.000 But I'm not everyone.

01:07:03.000 And so I don't, you know...

01:07:04.000 You can't really use that if everyone did the argument.

01:07:07.000 It's a good argument because if you're encouraging people to hunt, it is kind of a good argument because it's not realistic.

01:07:13.000 It's not sustainable.

01:07:15.000 But the other thing to recognize is that the reason why most of this wildlife exists in the first place, a lot of it was wiped out in the early 20th century.

01:07:24.000 From what they call market hunting.

01:07:26.000 In the late 19th century, early 20th century, they didn't have refrigeration and it was hard to get food and we didn't have the same sort of large-scale agriculture that we have today.

01:07:38.000 And so when someone would want meat, somebody would either have to hunt it for you and you would go to the market and get that hunted food or you would go out and do it yourself.

01:07:50.000 And they basically wiped out most of the wildlife in North America to the point of extinction, white-tailed deer, elk.

01:07:57.000 They've been extirpated from the majority of their range in North America and only been replaced in a few other places.

01:08:03.000 But the places where they've been replaced, it's all through money that was generated through hunting tags, all through billions and billions of dollars.

01:08:11.000 There's a thing called the Robertson-Pickman, I think that's what it's called, Act, where 10%, if you buy hunting gear and equipment, 10% of that money goes to habitat restoration, making sure that rangers and forest people get funded,

01:08:29.000 so that the Fish and Game Department gets funded, and also population conservation, making sure that the populations are healthy, repopulating certain areas with elk and deer.

01:08:41.000 And this has all been done through the money that's generated through hunting.

01:08:46.000 Yeah, I can see that there's a, looking at my own feelings towards it, I can see that there's a, potentially, I'm bringing a sentimentality to the idea of animals that's, like, anthropomorphic.

01:08:58.000 Yes.

01:08:58.000 Like, I'm like, oh, you can't kill that, what about, it's babies!

01:09:02.000 Thinking about things like that.

01:09:04.000 But what I... I live in a rural area in Britain where hunting is normal and agriculture is normal and I wouldn't get very far if I was like, you can't shoot those pheasants, look at their feathers, they're beautiful.

01:09:19.000 It's not a helpful attitude.

01:09:20.000 So whilst I... In myself, I couldn't do that because it messes me up on a...

01:09:27.000 It feels like a very...

01:09:30.000 But I feel that this is precisely the kind of territory where we have to look at acknowledging and tolerating difference between us.

01:09:39.000 This is where I feel like these ossified, polarised positions between right and left are starting to take root.

01:09:45.000 Because if someone like me, who don't eat meat, don't eat animal products and wouldn't hunt for ethical reasons, Starts trying to impose on other people now you shouldn't hunt because of this that have you not watched Bambi you know like that's gonna mean that people aren't able to explore who they are and so my I've let go of judging people around things that I don't agree with because I reckon I don't know everything.

01:10:11.000 You know what I mean?

01:10:11.000 I'm this.

01:10:12.000 This is about my morality.

01:10:14.000 It's about how I behave.

01:10:15.000 And if people said to me, I'm thinking about going hunting, I'd go, well, these are my feelings about it.

01:10:20.000 However, though, I just heard that hunting does contribute, apparently, to the survival of some species.

01:10:25.000 And there is an argument that it's quite natural and indigenous.

01:10:27.000 And it's probably a way of getting in contact with who we are originally as hunting people.

01:10:32.000 It's an important part of our anthropological history.

01:10:34.000 History and possibly a lot of the condemnation of hunting is part of the rejection of who we used to be as we become overly civilised and more and more detached from what it is to be human, whether that's sacred or pragmatic.

01:10:46.000 We don't know what human beings are anymore.

01:10:48.000 We reject our own sexuality.

01:10:50.000 We reject our own bodies.

01:10:51.000 We're trying to turn ourselves into these sort of cyborgs, these emotionless, sexless...

01:10:59.000 Meaningless creatures.

01:11:00.000 Where is our passion?

01:11:01.000 Where is our connection with the sacred?

01:11:03.000 They would go, hold on, I only asked you about hunting.

01:11:05.000 When are you going to stop talking?

01:11:07.000 Never!

01:11:08.000 You gave me an in, I will pummel you with my belief system on all things.

01:11:12.000 So I don't feel like, that ain't where I get into judging people.

01:11:16.000 But I'm interested as well, with this, I keep bringing up the subject of DMT, like, what I guess what I want to know about is, like, because I'm, you know, obviously a person in recovery, I don't drink, I don't take drugs, haven't done for a long time,

01:11:33.000 and I recognise for certain people that they can't do it safely.

01:11:37.000 Psychedelics and hallucinogens seem to me exist in a realm outside of that because they're not about, they're not pleasure.

01:11:43.000 Seeking.

01:11:44.000 It seems to me like it's a spiritual portal. 0.89

01:11:46.000 However, I'm a crafty bastard when it comes to this stuff, and I'm always looking for an in.

01:11:52.000 You know, when I see your cannabis treasure trove over there, I mean, that is some, yeah, as you said, Raiders of the Lost Ark stuff, and I'm holding in my hand now the CBD-rich cannabis soft gels, clasping it. 0.82

01:12:04.000 So you're worried that that is a gateway?

01:12:08.000 That CBD, which is not necessarily psychoactive?

01:12:11.000 As long as it's not psychoactive.

01:12:12.000 It's not, but it does help you with anxiety.

01:12:13.000 It helps a lot of people because it alleviates a lot of inflammation, which tends to have a corresponding impact on your anxiety.

01:12:22.000 Hold on, so this says here 11 milligrams of THC. Does that mean...

01:12:26.000 It says THC? It does say that at the bottom.

01:12:28.000 It's probably a 1 to 1. Is this a 1 to 1?

01:12:30.000 It might be.

01:12:31.000 Or it's like an 18 to 1. Or 11. It says there's an 11 and a 1. There's a couple different ones in that box.

01:12:36.000 Oh, I almost gave you the wrong one.

01:12:37.000 What's next?

01:12:39.000 A bag of smack.

01:12:40.000 Don't take that.

01:12:42.000 Don't take this one.

01:12:43.000 This one's way more powerful.

01:12:44.000 That's one to one.

01:12:45.000 You seem very relaxed and free from anxiety.

01:12:48.000 I will say that.

01:12:50.000 What I suppose I'm interested in, because I'm meditating a lot.

01:12:56.000 I'm experiencing transcendent states.

01:12:59.000 I'm experiencing what it's like To not feel attached to my identity as Russell.

01:13:02.000 Who are you before you are Russell?

01:13:04.000 Who are you before you identify yourself as a man in England?

01:13:08.000 Who is the person?

01:13:09.000 Who is the consciousness?

01:13:10.000 Who is the awareness?

01:13:11.000 Now, when I listen to, say, Terence McKenna talking about his experiences in psychedelia at such length and with such lucidity and with so many philosophical connotations and the way that he uses the information he's getting from hallucinogenic experiences...

01:13:26.000 To speculate on how we should organise society, what the implications are for freedom.

01:13:31.000 His refusal to accept that there are certain kind of experiences that should be prohibited, that it's ridiculous that adults should be prevented from having that.

01:13:39.000 I'm fascinated, but I'm also, I suppose, part of my bias is I love anything that gets me out of my head.

01:13:45.000 I feel a tremendous sense of relief, whether it's through meditation or even sport.

01:13:49.000 Or sex, being relieved of the burden of the constantly thinking mind.

01:13:54.000 But when I hear like those vivid descriptions of DMT realm or our Wesker, I think something in me hungers for that, hungers for it.

01:14:05.000 Do you worry that you're trying to get intoxicated?

01:14:07.000 Do you worry that you're trying to find a loophole?

01:14:09.000 Yeah, because I am doing that.

01:14:11.000 I'm looking for a loophole.

01:14:13.000 It's like I'm going around like a sort of a trash lawyer looking for some way. 0.65

01:14:18.000 Hold on a second.

01:14:19.000 What about this? 0.99

01:14:20.000 Trash lawyer. 0.99

01:14:21.000 That's a great way of putting it. 0.96

01:14:22.000 Yeah, I mean, I know people that have problems with addiction that have done psychedelics and didn't have a problem.

01:14:28.000 But I'm sure some people have had problems and I don't know about them.

01:14:34.000 DMT is interesting in that, first of all, it's very quick.

01:14:36.000 The experience is only about 15 minutes, 20 minutes max.

01:14:40.000 It's not an intoxicant in the way that you would think about traditionally.

01:14:46.000 You are still you in the face of this experience.

01:14:50.000 I think...

01:14:52.000 I think it's some sort of a chemical gateway.

01:14:54.000 That's what I think.

01:14:55.000 I think there's a gateway in your mind that can lead to some other dimension that's probably there all the time.

01:15:01.000 If there is an omnipresent, continually existing realm that human beings aren't accessing because of the particular biochemical formulation of consciousness As it is in this point in our evolution.

01:15:14.000 And that we can get there.

01:15:16.000 I've heard Terrence McKenna say, it's more real.

01:15:19.000 It's more real.

01:15:21.000 There's stuff in there.

01:15:23.000 Excuse me.

01:15:23.000 And when he talks about them beings, you know, like that he describes as self-dribbling basketballs, creating like Faberge egg, like, you know, devices through vibration.

01:15:33.000 I didn't see it.

01:15:34.000 I never saw that.

01:15:35.000 I want that.

01:15:36.000 He's called the machine elves.

01:15:37.000 He's called them all sorts of different things.

01:15:39.000 The way I've described them is they're the geometric patterns made out of love and understanding.

01:15:45.000 That's what they seem like.

01:15:46.000 So you can look at a geometrical pattern and read meaning into it.

01:15:50.000 It had an emotional quality.

01:15:51.000 They're made out of something.

01:15:53.000 And they move.

01:15:54.000 They change.

01:15:55.000 Like, they don't stay what they are.

01:15:56.000 They're constantly evolving in front of you into something more and more beautiful.

01:16:00.000 It's very weird.

01:16:01.000 What did it make you feel?

01:16:04.000 Like I knew nothing.

01:16:06.000 That was the most profound aspect.

01:16:08.000 Like, all of this stuff that you concentrate on every day is nonsense.

01:16:12.000 And there is some other thing that's connected that's probably influencing this world.

01:16:17.000 Yeah.

01:16:17.000 And it's probably what people see when they have near-death experiences, the depictions of the afterlife.

01:16:22.000 I mean, it's probably what it all is.

01:16:24.000 And religious experiences.

01:16:26.000 Yeah.

01:16:26.000 And when prophets are talking about, oh, my God, I went into this realm.

01:16:29.000 Sure.

01:16:29.000 There's these beings.

01:16:30.000 They've told me we're all one.

01:16:32.000 We have to love each other.

01:16:33.000 Scholars in Jerusalem are connecting Moses' experience with the burning bush to the acacia tree.

01:16:39.000 The acacia tree, which is rich in DMT. The burning bush is what God was to Moses.

01:16:44.000 And that through this burning bush, he came out with these ten commandments of how people should live their lives.

01:16:49.000 I mean, that easily could have been just a very convoluted...

01:16:57.000 Certainly.

01:16:58.000 And also, when you think of...

01:17:00.000 Certainly there are archetypal images that seem to be repeated throughout ancient cultures and archaic stories that seem to refer to the potential for plant experiences to affect consciousness.

01:17:12.000 Even the Garden of Eden, do not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, otherwise you will become as gods.

01:17:19.000 You know, I sense that.

01:17:21.000 Now, if...

01:17:22.000 If there is some realm that we can reach through that experience that puts into perspective everything else we experience on the material realm, and that thing seems to, in your words, be emanating love and understanding while ever-changing, completely formless and communicating love and understanding,

01:17:40.000 I can't help but think that that should become Our priority to have a relationship with that realm and to bring about that experience.

01:17:51.000 I don't even mean in a literal way, because even Terence McKenna said there are some people, vulnerable souls, he was probably referring to people like me, that probably shouldn't mess around with that kind of stuff.

01:18:00.000 I think he was really talking about people with schizophrenia, which he believed he had, by the way.

01:18:04.000 Did he?

01:18:05.000 Yeah, he had some very unique perspectives on schizophrenia and I think if we lived in a healthy world, a healthy civilization that had a healthy relationship with psychoactive substances, we'd probably have centers where you would have a legitimate shaman,

01:18:23.000 a medical advisor, and someone would take you through a guided experience.

01:18:28.000 We're doing that now with ketamine.

01:18:31.000 There's a lot of people that are very depressed that are having these Physician-controlled ketamine experiences that have had a profound effect on their depression.

01:18:42.000 My friend Neil Brennan's gone through several of them.

01:18:44.000 And he's a comedian, a very funny comedian.

01:18:47.000 So when he was describing it, it was hilarious. 1.00

01:18:49.000 He was going to a doctor's office and tripping his fucking balls off. 0.99

01:18:52.000 And the doctor's shooting him up with intramuscular ketamine. 1.00

01:18:56.000 Oh my god.

01:18:57.000 Yeah, and he's having these insane...

01:18:58.000 I go, so you're having psychedelic experiences?

01:19:00.000 He's like, oh yeah!

01:19:02.000 Yeah!

01:19:03.000 The way he's describing it was really funny. 0.99

01:19:06.000 I mean, tripping his fucking balls off in these whatever states that ketamine, I've never experienced ketamine, I don't know what it does, but it's apparently profoundly hallucinogenic. 0.99

01:19:19.000 And you have wild, crazy experiences on it. 0.99

01:19:22.000 And for whatever reason, it has a great impact on depression for a lot of people.

01:19:27.000 I think it's a perspective enhancer, but it also does something to rewire the mind.

01:19:31.000 Well, what some of this suggests is that mental illness is a response to our material conditions.

01:19:36.000 Whether that mentally is schizophrenia, depression, or addiction, it's like people are going, hang on a minute, this isn't how we're supposed to live.

01:19:44.000 I took that ketamine one time towards the end of my using, and as usual, it's not in the right type of environment.

01:19:50.000 You shouldn't be doing stuff like that in a nightclub.

01:19:51.000 You need to be under that shamanic conditions white coat guy or whatever, whoever you nominate as a shaman. 0.96

01:19:57.000 But I felt like it was like going into a tunnel made of sound and having to navigate. 0.97

01:20:02.000 I was like, oh shit, I'm still in reality. 0.98

01:20:03.000 What am I going to do? 0.99

01:20:04.000 Is it...

01:20:05.000 As my sort of consciousness becomes a noise instead of a string of words and signs, how am I going to get out of this place?

01:20:13.000 For me, it's clear that drugs were never meant to be recreational.

01:20:17.000 In fact, they never were.

01:20:18.000 I was never, hey man, this is crazy. 0.98

01:20:20.000 I was always like, I'm in fucking pain. 0.99

01:20:21.000 I need some shit to help me out, otherwise I'm going to I'd probably kill myself. 0.99

01:20:25.000 So it was a way of holding that stuff at arm's length. 0.99

01:20:28.000 So I guess my renewed curiosity around DMT and ayahuasca and other sort of plant medicines.

01:20:35.000 Do you know Daniel Pinchbeck and them guys that are part of that?

01:20:39.000 I'm curious about it because I guess I'm continually trying to find a way where someone goes, right, here's a way where we can do it, where it's sort of safe.

01:20:45.000 And I've heard of other people in recovery doing it.

01:20:47.000 And when I think about what my motivation is, is when I hear people talking about and my own recollections of experiencing what felt like God and by God I mean a sense of oneness and that my individual identity isn't my real identity and I'm connected to everything and love is the most important thing. 0.97

01:21:01.000 You know, I want a real experience of that so that when I'm out in the world, I can remember when I'm driving or when I'm dealing with people or if I'm buying something or if I'm feeling inferior or feeling superior that, like you said, this is bullshit. 0.87

01:21:14.000 This is like a secondary reality. 0.98

01:21:16.000 Don't let it govern you.

01:21:17.000 You know, as someone that's been seduced by fame, a person like, oh, if I get this part in this film, Then everyone's going to love me.

01:21:22.000 Oh, if this stand-up set goes well, you know, like a person that placed all of my well-being outside of myself, the certain knowledge that there is an inner connection that will take care of you, that's accessible.

01:21:32.000 I guess I'm, you know, hungry to sort of feel it in a way that's like, oh my God, now there is no doubt.

01:21:38.000 So in a sense, it's a crisis of faith, not a crisis of faith.

01:21:42.000 But there's some psychedelic states that you could achieve without taking anything.

01:21:46.000 I mean, you can certainly get there in a flotation tank.

01:21:50.000 You can get there through holotropic breathing.

01:21:52.000 I've never done kundalini yoga, but apparently the people that get really deep into kundalini yoga can literally have DMT trips.

01:22:00.000 I have friends that have done DMT and have experienced DMT trips through kundalini.

01:22:06.000 But you have to be really dedicated.

01:22:08.000 I mean, there's a lot of time, a lot of time, a lot of energy, and you have to really understand the methods and follow them to a T, and you can achieve these altered states of consciousness that are apparently, not from my personal experience, but from what people tell me,

01:22:24.000 incredibly profound.

01:22:25.000 Yeah, I mean, I've had comparable things, I guess, that what is, you know, the difference between feeling something that's that overwhelming, that gives you no choice, you know, like, it's not like, you know, Kundalini, you've got to do these breaths correctly, you've got to sit there, you've got to try it again and again.

01:22:37.000 Have you done it?

01:22:38.000 Yeah, I've done quite a bit of Kundalini.

01:22:40.000 Have you tripped?

01:22:40.000 Well, what, for me, it feels, like, what I've felt quite a lot, yogically and meditatively, is a cessation of what I would call my individual consciousness.

01:22:48.000 Like, oh, I'm not...

01:23:02.000 Yeah.

01:23:08.000 I've sort of felt rushes of that, like a certain wordless clarity, if you can imagine me having anything that was wordless, even for a moment.

01:23:15.000 And in that space, there is great peace.

01:23:19.000 So I suppose what's turning me on about the DMT and Ayahuasca thing is the way it's narrativised, that you're going to meet characters and stuff like that, and it's going to be plain...

01:23:30.000 And beyond doubt.

01:23:31.000 You know, because I suppose what prophets do, you know, like whether, you know, when a prophet returns from the, whether it's the burning bush or the cave, they come back and they say, all this stuff that you're taking seriously is not real.

01:23:45.000 There's this other realm.

01:23:46.000 Start prioritizing it or you are going to live in hell on earth. 0.95

01:23:50.000 You're going to be governed by your materialistic drives, your sexual drives, and it's going to imprison you.

01:23:55.000 And it turns out that they're right.

01:23:57.000 And so, like, you know, I suppose what I'm after, because I'm, Partly, you know, on a super...

01:24:02.000 Like, on one level, influenced by what you're doing and how you've created your own...

01:24:06.000 Like, you've created your own business and your own success.

01:24:09.000 Like, this symbiosis of stand-up and the podcast.

01:24:12.000 And, like, it's become, like, a sort of a lifestyle brand, in a sense, Joe.

01:24:15.000 Like, you know, I'm sort of like, yeah, I don't...

01:24:17.000 I don't want to be continually dragged into these, like, working within institutions.

01:24:22.000 Like, you know, I'm over here doing a bloody, I'm doing ballers, and I'm bloody glad to be over here doing ballers and working with The Rock, and I've got a funny story about that if you want it.

01:24:31.000 But, like, you know, like, really what interests me is, like, can I be, can I dedicate my life To humorously communicating spiritual information and indeed starting to live it.

01:24:45.000 And I suppose what that would mean is, you know, I'm getting better, but I'm not a person who's obsessed with porn or sex or drugs or whatever.

01:24:52.000 Like, you know, to become it.

01:24:53.000 To become what you actually are.

01:24:55.000 To recognize that we're all different.

01:24:56.000 Your perfect realization of you is going to involve...

01:24:59.000 Hunt in and all of these things that you've created through your gift and that my perfect version of me is going to, you know, involve all of this and not everyone needs to build sort of empires or entertainment industries or whatever but all of us are on some journey to self-actualization and realization as individual as our fingerprints and as natural as a seed turning into a tree and if we don't have a way of accessing that no wonder we're dissatisfied no wonder there's an opioid epidemic no wonder people are bored and angry and lonely Well,

01:25:25.000 I think what you can do Is be yourself.

01:25:28.000 And what you can do is express yourself.

01:25:30.000 And what you can do is constantly seek to improve and grow.

01:25:33.000 And you're doing those things.

01:25:34.000 So if you're saying, can I do these things?

01:25:37.000 Can I be comedic and spiritual?

01:25:39.000 Well, you're doing it.

01:25:41.000 So it can be done.

01:25:42.000 So you're doing it.

01:25:43.000 You know, it's all just a matter of whether or not you're satisfied with your progress and where you are and who you are and how you express yourself. 0.99

01:25:51.000 So your pursuit for excellence, when you're saying, I've got to get better at BJJ or archery or hunting or whatever, that isn't coupled with a sort of sense, because you're not fucking good enough! 0.99

01:26:00.000 No. 0.99

01:26:01.000 So that's the deal that I've got.

01:26:03.000 There's wonderment.

01:26:04.000 I love it.

01:26:05.000 Joy.

01:26:05.000 That's so cool.

01:26:06.000 There's joy in it and there's enthusiasm, I mean, in everything.

01:26:10.000 Archery in particular, it's very, you know, there's that book, Zen and the Art of Archery, which is, it's an interesting book.

01:26:19.000 I think there's some really great points to it, but that state of mind that you get when you release an arrow and that arrow perfectly finds its mark really is Zen.

01:26:28.000 It requires so much concentration and focus and technique that you really don't think about other things.

01:26:35.000 And it's cleansing in a lot of ways.

01:26:36.000 It's mind cleansing.

01:26:38.000 I find jujitsu to be very similar in that way too, that it's so all-encompassing.

01:26:43.000 There's so much on the line, it's so difficult to do, that while it's happening, you're freeing your mind up.

01:26:49.000 I mean, I think of video games in the same way.

01:26:51.000 All of these things, that's bizarre.

01:26:54.000 All of those things suggest a transmission between the inner and outer world, isn't it?

01:26:58.000 You're looking at the bullseye and then, oh my god, I've made this thing traverse time and space.

01:27:04.000 Or BJJ, I've been shown again and again how to execute this triangle and I've just actually done it against resistance.

01:27:10.000 It's amazing to feel that.

01:27:13.000 It's amazing to feel that your inner life can express itself in the material world, wherever you're looking to explore that.

01:27:20.000 And to test yourself.

01:27:22.000 And when you test yourself and you have to figure your way through something or change the path because the path you were on was unsuccessful, when you're doing that, it's really good for the mind and for the...

01:27:35.000 I hesitate to say the spirit because I think that word spirituality is so beaten down and abused.

01:27:41.000 What do you mean?

01:27:41.000 It's become commodified.

01:27:42.000 Yeah, it's like when people call themselves a healer.

01:27:45.000 Yeah, I've just done some healing on the way here.

01:27:50.000 We're all healing.

01:27:52.000 I mean, we really are all healing each other.

01:27:55.000 But I think there's something to doing difficult tasks that it makes life easier.

01:28:01.000 I really believe that.

01:28:02.000 I think it makes life more enjoyable.

01:28:04.000 I think it makes the bright colors brighter, and it makes the dull colors, even them, even the bad moments.

01:28:12.000 If you have real positive experiences with difficult things that you choose to do on your own, I think it mitigates most of the hassle of life.

01:28:20.000 Yes, I agree with that.

01:28:22.000 That is, again, and I'm not particularly promoting this book because I'm alright with however things do.

01:28:27.000 But the point of this mentorship is the idea that someone will exhibit qualities that you recognize you haven't fully realized in yourself and that you can sort of model them and realize them because latently you have those qualities.

01:28:39.000 Oh, like Kevin Hart.

01:28:40.000 We were talking about how admirable I find his positivity to be.

01:28:43.000 It made me think...

01:28:44.000 It's unbelievable. 0.99

01:28:45.000 On a practical level, the way he's building his stand-up, that guy's fucking diligent. 0.95

01:28:50.000 When he talked through his work schedule, you fetishize hard-working men, I think. 0.97

01:28:56.000 I've heard you talk about Dwayne Johnson and Kevin Hart.

01:28:59.000 You like the idea of men, I'm up at those people, I'm up at two, I'm in the cryo chamber.

01:29:04.000 I don't do that, though.

01:29:05.000 I sleep in.

01:29:07.000 I can do a lot of things that they don't do.

01:29:10.000 But I also, you know, unlike The Rock at least, I do stand-up.

01:29:15.000 I mean, Kevin does stand-up too, obviously.

01:29:17.000 I don't know if he does it as much or as often as I do.

01:29:20.000 Because I do the clubs.

01:29:21.000 I have a philosophy about what's required...

01:29:25.000 To develop great stand-up, that you have to do a lot of sets.

01:29:29.000 You have to do a lot of numbers, a lot of different places, different environments, and I found that out the hard way.

01:29:34.000 Through my best performances and my less good performances, like what was missing and what did I gain?

01:29:40.000 This, I think, is sort of an interesting debate.

01:29:44.000 I don't know if it's in the stand-up world at large, but it's something I've thought about a lot.

01:29:48.000 As soon as I was able to have an audience that would come and see me, I was like, I'm out.

01:29:54.000 Thank you, God. 0.99

01:29:56.000 I'm not putting myself through that shit ever again. 0.99

01:30:00.000 Doug Stanhope feels the same way, by the way. 0.99

01:30:02.000 He's one of the best ever.

01:30:03.000 Yeah, he's amazing.

01:30:04.000 He's absolutely fantastic.

01:30:05.000 I completely agree.

01:30:06.000 And, like, because I thought, like, because what I feel like is that the comedy club environment warps your material because you've got to appeal to them. 1.00

01:30:14.000 And I think you ain't the fucking arbiters of truth, you drunk and crazy 2am motherfuckers. 1.00

01:30:19.000 Like, like, So I get, like, I perform, what I'll do is, like, and what I'm doing to say at the moment is I'll book the UCB, like, or, like, places 100, 200, or go Lago, or put on events, and I'm doing events while I'm in LA, because I think, oh, these people come, and they love me, and they bring me beads, 0.99

01:30:36.000 and here's some vegan cookies.

01:30:38.000 Oh, you gotta come to the comedy store, man, and go on after Joey Diaz. 1.00

01:30:41.000 Fuck you! 1.00

01:30:45.000 Because I feel like I'm like a nurturing environment. 1.00

01:30:48.000 I mean, because I've done that. 1.00

01:30:50.000 I've done those fucking clubs. 0.99

01:30:51.000 And, like, you know, and even Comedy Store and late at night Comedy Store in LA, you know, as well as London. 0.99

01:30:57.000 And I feel like, oh, Jesus, thank God.

01:30:59.000 So, like, I'm interested.

01:31:00.000 To you, that's part of that, what I think some people could reductively refer to as machismo in you.

01:31:06.000 Like, that you go, no, I'm going in there, huh?

01:31:08.000 Well, you know what it is?

01:31:09.000 It's that guy that mounted you and went for the armbar and you escaped.

01:31:13.000 Right.

01:31:14.000 It's worth it because it was hard.

01:31:17.000 You realize if a child got on top of you and went for an armbar and you escaped, you'd feel nothing.

01:31:22.000 So when you're at Largo, you're performing for children.

01:31:28.000 You're doing child stand-up.

01:31:29.000 It's like you're wrestling with 100-pound women who just started yesterday. 1.00

01:31:34.000 It's like the Make-A-Wish Foundation.

01:31:36.000 Go on, Russell, then.

01:31:37.000 Tell us your stories.

01:31:38.000 Well, if you noticed.

01:31:39.000 Amazing.

01:31:40.000 Oh, brother.

01:31:40.000 You're wonderful.

01:31:41.000 We brought you flowers.

01:31:42.000 You've done so well.

01:31:42.000 Thank you.

01:31:43.000 Thank you, children.

01:31:44.000 But look, the counter-argument to that is...

01:31:46.000 Therefore, I'm in an environment that is sympathetic and it is my audience and I'm not biasing.

01:31:54.000 The idea of overcoming a greater obstacle, I completely appreciate what you're saying.

01:31:59.000 But say you believe in the purity of stand-up as being some real expression of yourself, as in the arrow hitting the bullseye, I feel like I have a vision of what I'm trying to achieve.

01:32:09.000 And increasingly, it's becoming about, I want my stand-up, I want to hang on, you know, like, as I've always done, stories where I feel embarrassed and humiliated, but I want to hang off it, ruminations on what I believe to be the nature of truth, and I want people to come out of those things feeling loved, validated,

01:32:25.000 accepted, and that they're good enough and that they can explore themselves.

01:32:28.000 So it's more of a one-man show.

01:32:30.000 In a sense, it's that.

01:32:31.000 But I don't want to sacrifice the laughs.

01:32:33.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:32:33.000 I love the laughs.

01:32:34.000 The laughs is where we're at.

01:32:36.000 That's a given.

01:32:37.000 But you don't have to sacrifice in a one-man show.

01:32:39.000 I mean, you can certainly do a one-man show that would be really funny.

01:32:41.000 But say you start going into...

01:32:43.000 Yeah, that's what I'm doing.

01:32:44.000 And I'm trying to build things around 12 Steps and doing things that people have some takeaway value from.

01:32:50.000 Now, trying to develop that after Joey Diaz in the store...

01:32:55.000 There's going to be some resistance.

01:32:57.000 Are you aware of Hannah Gadsby and the controversy of this thing in the net?

01:33:00.000 Yeah, what do you think about that?

01:33:01.000 I haven't seen it.

01:33:02.000 Yeah, nor have I actually.

01:33:03.000 I still say I'm going to see it, but...

01:33:04.000 Because what, the end of comedy and all that kind of thing? 0.89

01:33:07.000 That's silly.

01:33:07.000 It's no end of comedy.

01:33:08.000 But what she's doing, people like.

01:33:11.000 And there's nothing wrong...

01:33:12.000 What is it?

01:33:12.000 I don't know.

01:33:12.000 You call it whatever you want.

01:33:14.000 Sometimes it's funny.

01:33:15.000 I mean, maybe it's stand-up comedy.

01:33:16.000 Some of my mates watch it and they tell me towards the end it become quite aggressive towards the audience.

01:33:21.000 Yeah, it became like a TED Talk almost, I guess, apparently.

01:33:24.000 I'm interested in, you know, that's, you know, yeah, there's enough room for everyone to do whatever they're doing.

01:33:29.000 But, like, see, at the beginning of my, let's call it, career, like, I used to not prepare at all. 0.72

01:33:34.000 I was still drinking and using, I'd go up on stage, I'd chop shit up, I'd get into confrontation, like, when I say chop shit up, I'd take up animals. 0.84

01:33:41.000 Animal parts that I'd got from butchers. 0.98

01:33:43.000 Like a skull with all meat and stuff and sinew on it.

01:33:47.000 Chop it up.

01:33:47.000 Release locusts.

01:33:49.000 Get into confrontations.

01:33:51.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:33:52.000 The reaction you're having is the reaction they were having.

01:33:54.000 I had fights.

01:33:57.000 I've got scars on my body from bad stand-up gigs.

01:34:00.000 From a time where I got into a confrontation.

01:34:02.000 I was making a point about pedophilia.

01:34:04.000 Saying, oh, we're all one cultural mind.

01:34:06.000 So when a particular pedophile has transgressed against a child, we're all responsible. 1.00

01:34:10.000 People are like, what the fuck? 1.00

01:34:11.000 Fuck! 1.00

01:34:12.000 That's a tough sell. 1.00

01:34:13.000 I got the shit kicked out. 0.99

01:34:15.000 I've still got the scar on my leg. 1.00

01:34:16.000 That happened in Edinburgh in Scotland.

01:34:18.000 People didn't take it well.

01:34:20.000 But what I was trying to do was create...

01:34:24.000 I didn't have the skills, the chops, the experience, the jokes.

01:34:27.000 So I was so under-equipped.

01:34:28.000 But what I was trying to do was create environments that felt...

01:34:33.000 I'm much better at doing that now.

01:34:34.000 I can create that kind of an uncertainty in a room, a kind of a sense of chaos and what's happening, and then bring it back, I hope, to a humorous conclusion where people feel safe and amused and all of that kind of stuff.

01:34:45.000 Now, I think it's...

01:34:46.000 Because I did try and do that in comedy clubs, and yeah, it was conversation.

01:34:50.000 It's not what people want.

01:34:51.000 So don't you think that by...

01:34:53.000 Prepping your stand-up in those environments that it biases you towards a type of stand-up comedy that is limited.

01:35:00.000 No, because you can do that other stuff too.

01:35:03.000 You could always perform to your crowd, and you could always expand on things to your crowd, but to really put it together without any fluff...

01:35:13.000 Without any nonsense, without being self-indulgent, respecting the attention span of the audience that may or may not even be there to see you.

01:35:22.000 Most likely it's not if you go to a comedy club and there's a large...

01:35:25.000 If you go to the comedy store any night of the week, there's 15 plus people on the marquee or on the list.

01:35:31.000 And the show starts at...

01:35:33.000 8pm or 9pm, depending on the night, and it goes to 2 o'clock in the morning.

01:35:37.000 You catch waves in there, and there's different types of comedy.

01:35:42.000 In that, you're going to deal with sometimes tired audiences, sometimes enthusiastic people.

01:35:48.000 It's all different.

01:35:48.000 It varies widely.

01:35:49.000 And I think that in doing that, you cut all the nonsense out of your act, and you develop an economy of words.

01:35:58.000 You understand how to captivate people's attention and keep them engaged, and to respect their time, respect their point of view, respect that these people have an attention span.

01:36:07.000 They want to be engaged in the best possible way that you can do it.

01:36:11.000 And sometimes you develop that Yes.

01:36:24.000 Yes.

01:36:38.000 You're right, because obviously in the Comedy Store, between the hours you just described, there's a contract.

01:36:44.000 We're here, we ain't here to see you, we're here to laugh every 15 seconds.

01:36:48.000 And comics like Robin Williams or Chappelle's, the all-time greats, they go in and accept those conditions.

01:36:57.000 You've seen stuff like Robin Williams.

01:37:00.000 He's just walking around in the crowd in that very room.

01:37:02.000 It's like he's doing the thing I'm talking about and he's doing it there.

01:37:07.000 That's when you think...

01:37:08.000 I suppose I do get that, that you're road-testing its durability to an incredible degree, if you can pull it off.

01:37:15.000 Think about every time you're saying something.

01:37:18.000 When you have a subject, say if you want to talk about the mentors that you have in life, it's an open-ended approach.

01:37:26.000 You have no idea what the correct way to say something is.

01:37:30.000 You try it.

01:37:31.000 You write it out.

01:37:33.000 You say, this seems feasible.

01:37:35.000 Let me try it this way.

01:37:36.000 And oftentimes people never correct it or they never adjust it.

01:37:40.000 They never go back and improve it.

01:37:42.000 They just say it in a certain way and figure out how to do it.

01:37:45.000 When you're doing it in front of a crowd, you're developing these things while also feeling the way people are reacting to them and feeling their attention span, and it makes you, with proper reflection and truly objective listening to your material,

01:38:02.000 it makes you change and shift and adjust things, hopefully in a positive way.

01:38:07.000 And the more you do it, the more you get a sense of, maybe this is clunky here, and maybe I figure out a better way to say it.

01:38:15.000 I agree, but the counter-argument could be that it could bias you to a sort of a lowest common denominator area.

01:38:20.000 Say with that bit where you talk about the sun and, you know, it's, you know, you need it, it's trying to kill you, it gives you cancer.

01:38:27.000 You know, like, something like, what was the journey of that bit of stand-up?

01:38:32.000 Is it like, like, for me, it's like, oh, I think of a thought, I try and make sure there's a tag so I know where I'm going when I'm out there.

01:38:38.000 Yeah.

01:38:38.000 And then it's a comparable process to yours.

01:38:42.000 You're trying your best to get rid of fluff or whatever.

01:38:44.000 So can you recall what it's like?

01:38:47.000 Are you night after night going in with new bits of material packaged within things that you're a little more confident in?

01:38:53.000 Yeah, and I put that bit on a special and I can do it better now.

01:38:56.000 I know a better way to do it.

01:38:58.000 And that's part of the problem with doing bits.

01:39:00.000 It's like sometimes you release them on a special and you have a better version of it now.

01:39:04.000 My point of that was to a perspective enhancer, to let people know that bit was about, like, understand what's happening here.

01:39:11.000 You are literally floating in infinity, and it's almost never discussed.

01:39:16.000 You're hurling through forever.

01:39:18.000 There's a fireball in the sky.

01:39:20.000 It's a million times bigger than Earth.

01:39:22.000 If you stare at it, you'll go blind.

01:39:24.000 It's trying to give you cancer, and if it's not there, you get sad.

01:39:27.000 You live in a dream.

01:39:28.000 This is madness. 0.68

01:39:30.000 Your life is madness.

01:39:31.000 It's beautiful.

01:39:34.000 There's something about that particular way of...

01:39:38.000 I figured out a way to express it In short doses, in short bursts, if you stare at it, it'll go blind.

01:39:48.000 It's trying to give you cancer, and if it's not there, you get sad.

01:39:50.000 So in that short burst, it's like, wow, yeah, all those things are true.

01:39:54.000 It's crazy.

01:39:55.000 There really is a fireball floating in the sky, and we're just used to it.

01:39:59.000 We live because of a floating, million times bigger than the earth fireball.

01:40:05.000 If you can say something like that and make someone laugh, you can actually change the way they look at things.

01:40:12.000 You can actually affect, at least, the way they look at things.

01:40:15.000 If you just say something...

01:40:17.000 Sometimes it's profound.

01:40:18.000 Sometimes it registers. 0.98

01:40:20.000 But if you could say something and it forces someone to laugh, even if they disagree with you, if they're laughing, like, I don't even fucking agree with this, but holy shit, this is funny. 0.72

01:40:28.000 You put that thought deep into someone's head and you allow them to think about your thought process and how your creative process and what you're doing to sort of bring these things out. 0.57

01:40:41.000 Yes, I like the way you describe the architecture of that.

01:40:45.000 You've got to basically have, these are some facts about the sun that are irrefutable. 0.92

01:40:49.000 Now here is how that affects the way we look at the world and exposes to us that we're just ignorant.

01:40:55.000 We're not awake to reality.

01:40:57.000 We can't hold reality in our minds because it's too vast to handle.

01:41:02.000 I like it and I agree with you that with laughter comes access to kind of deeper truths and I've heard some therapists in fact say that laughter is to shame what grief is to sadness.

01:41:16.000 That laughter is helping to expel shame and to process shame.

01:41:20.000 There's something very important about people coming together and laughing together.

01:41:24.000 I like to exist comedically in a world where it starts from a deeply personal perspective and admissions and acknowledgements of humiliation and shame and vulnerability and travels out to the universal and hopefully archetypal.

01:41:37.000 You can sort of travel between those points.

01:41:39.000 A comedian, I think we both admire, Bill Hicks.

01:41:42.000 What I think is fascinating is because if you've loved Bill Hicks for a long while, then you discover, man, that guy worked...

01:41:49.000 It's material a lot.

01:41:50.000 You know, like you go, I watched this interview of him on Australian TV. He's doing like a bit that I've seen him do, you know, in multiple incarnations.

01:41:59.000 But I have also seen him do interviews where he's spontaneously talking about gigs, terrible gigs that have gone badly, and he is hilarious. 0.93

01:42:05.000 But it's very interesting to me, and perhaps it's because of that background and that practice of doing clubs, that Hicks is very much a comedian that's, no, I'm drilling this fucking thing, and I'm staying with it. 0.67

01:42:16.000 No, he was a writer. 0.69

01:42:17.000 I mean, he did ad-lib, and he was capable of going on these rants, spontaneous rants, but he was a writer.

01:42:24.000 You know, he wrote these things out, and he was aiming to have an impact with his commentary.

01:42:29.000 I mean, that was what he was doing.

01:42:31.000 He was not just trying to make you laugh.

01:42:33.000 He was aiming to enhance your perspective on whatever he was talking about.

01:42:38.000 Yeah, and it seems very disciplined as a practitioner of it, whereas, say, Chappelle, it feels like he's just going, blah, after like an hour.

01:42:46.000 Well, you know, he's got a very unique process, Chappelle does, and he can turn over an hour like no one have ever seen before.

01:42:53.000 And I was talking to Donnell Wrongs about it recently, who was on the Chappelle show with him.

01:42:57.000 We both agreed he's the best ever at turning over a new hour.

01:43:01.000 He could release a Netflix special and then have a new hour within a couple of weeks.

01:43:07.000 It doesn't even make sense.

01:43:09.000 I don't understand how he's doing it.

01:43:11.000 He must just flood in.

01:43:13.000 He's in a great space, you know?

01:43:15.000 He's in a great mindset to do comedy.

01:43:17.000 You know, if you pay attention to how, you know, when people study, like if you read Outliers, and you read how people, when people study why people are great at what they do and what makes them exceptional, there's always a variety of factors.

01:43:34.000 And whatever the factors are with Dave, he's got this easygoing personality, this very carefree way of looking at things.

01:43:43.000 He's also gone through a lot of bullshit in his career with leaving the Chappelle show and abandoning $50 million and going to Africa and really understanding what his real motivation were.

01:43:56.000 He was caught up in that world where they were trying to change him and commercialize his television show. 0.89

01:44:01.000 And he handled it As good as anybody that's ever handled it.

01:44:05.000 Yeah.

01:44:06.000 He handled fame and temptation, I think, better than anyone I've ever heard of. 1.00

01:44:10.000 He just said, fuck you! 1.00

01:44:12.000 And he just went away. 1.00

01:44:13.000 He went away and then didn't do gigs for years.

01:44:17.000 People don't understand.

01:44:17.000 He would show up and do stand-up places, but he wouldn't book anything.

01:44:22.000 So, like, he wasn't getting paid.

01:44:24.000 He did stand-up.

01:44:26.000 Dave Chappelle did stand-up in the park in Seattle.

01:44:29.000 He brought, like, a little amplifier and a microphone, sat up, and just started doing stand-up, and people just gathered around.

01:44:36.000 And he did this just to sort of get him back in touch with his roots, because he used to do a lot of street performing in New York, and I saw him do street performing in Montreal.

01:44:44.000 We did a club, and then we came out of the club, and Dave, I think Dave was like 18 or 19 at the time, just started doing stand-up on the street.

01:44:52.000 And put his hat out and people would put money in his hat.

01:44:55.000 I mean, he was constantly sharpening that sword.

01:44:59.000 And he stopped doing stand-up for a long time in terms of booking gigs. 0.99

01:45:04.000 And then after a while, he said, fuck it, I'm going to come back again. 0.96

01:45:07.000 And then he started doing these gigantic gigs. 0.99

01:45:09.000 And then, of course, he did his two recent Netflix specials.

01:45:12.000 They were amongst his best work ever.

01:45:14.000 And now he's working all the time.

01:45:17.000 He's constantly popping into the Comedy Store and the Comedy Cellar and all these different clubs all across the country and constantly doing stand-up.

01:45:24.000 No social media.

01:45:26.000 Not involved in any of that stuff.

01:45:28.000 Doesn't do anything.

01:45:29.000 Just performs.

01:45:31.000 Just does his stuff.

01:45:32.000 Yeah, that's interesting.

01:45:34.000 It's like...

01:45:35.000 I feel that some people have found their essence and found their path and live it.

01:45:41.000 Like they're a yogi or a priest or something.

01:45:46.000 That's right.

01:45:46.000 He's just got a devotional, this is who I am, I'm not doing anything that's not that.

01:45:50.000 And yeah, that's exhibited.

01:45:52.000 Even in earlier stuff prior to the crisis of the 50 million walk away thing.

01:45:58.000 By then, if he was at 18 doing them clubs, he was hardened.

01:46:03.000 What seemed so loose on stage was something that had been refined as a person who's comfortable.

01:46:08.000 Yeah, he was always good.

01:46:10.000 He was good when I first met him when he was like 18. I think he was 18 and I was 21, so it was somewhere in that range.

01:46:16.000 Maybe I was a little older.

01:46:17.000 Maybe he was like, how old is Dave?

01:46:20.000 46, 47?

01:46:22.000 I think he's five years younger than me.

01:46:24.000 Is that correct?

01:46:26.000 46 or 47?

01:46:27.000 45. Okay, so he's more.

01:46:29.000 So he's six years.

01:46:30.000 Six years younger than me.

01:46:31.000 So, you know, I was probably 25 and he was probably 18-ish.

01:46:37.000 25, 26. 18, 17. But he was so, like, calm and, like...

01:46:45.000 He was very...

01:46:47.000 You were attracted to listening to him.

01:46:50.000 It was like, look at this guy.

01:46:51.000 This guy's so comfortable in his own skin and so friendly and easygoing and hilarious, but...

01:47:00.000 Who he was then and then who he became is all the work that he put in.

01:47:05.000 You know, it's like he had this base of this really, you know, this curious, young, very wise person who saw things that other people didn't see in the world.

01:47:15.000 And then he just kept going and just kept going.

01:47:17.000 And then, of course, The Chappelle Show, which is, in my opinion, the greatest sketch comedy show of all time, even though it was only two seasons.

01:47:25.000 It's the best ever.

01:47:27.000 And then after that, I mean, he's basically just done stand-up and done it completely outside of this system.

01:47:33.000 He's done some parts in movies and shit like that, but for the most part, what he's doing is just stand-up.

01:47:38.000 Completely outside of the Hollywood system. 0.52

01:47:39.000 Completely free. 0.99

01:47:40.000 Just goes up, you know, just talks some shit, has a couple of drinks, laughs, and it's incredibly compelling. 0.98

01:47:48.000 He's found his groove, you know, and that's... 0.94

01:47:51.000 It's a beautiful thing to watch as a fellow stand-up comedy practitioner when someone achieves this mastery level, like we were talking about this Hicks and Gracie of stand-up comedy level, because that's where he's at right now.

01:48:02.000 Yeah, I agree with you.

01:48:03.000 Become who you are, isn't it?

01:48:05.000 He's become himself.

01:48:07.000 And he doesn't have things that are getting in the way of that.

01:48:09.000 That's what's really interesting.

01:48:10.000 You don't see him.

01:48:12.000 He's not on social media.

01:48:14.000 He's not on anything.

01:48:15.000 Twitter or Facebook. 1.00

01:48:16.000 He's not on any of that shit. 0.99

01:48:17.000 He doesn't pay attention to any of it. 0.99

01:48:19.000 He's just being a person.

01:48:21.000 Just being a person and doing stand-up.

01:48:24.000 And he doesn't have to, which is unique too.

01:48:27.000 He doesn't have to promote things.

01:48:29.000 They just sell out.

01:48:30.000 Yeah, what an amazing example.

01:48:32.000 What an amazing example.

01:48:34.000 I've got to promote some things.

01:48:36.000 Oh, what do you got?

01:48:40.000 I've really learned some powerful lessons there from the story of the apotheosis of comedy that Dave Chappelle's achieved.

01:48:47.000 Here's these obligations.

01:48:49.000 Now, I'm booked here to promote Luminary. 0.83

01:48:52.000 My podcast has gone behind a paywall on a platform called Luminary, aiming to be the Netflix of podcasts, meaning like But, you know, your model will, I imagine, triumph further.

01:49:03.000 So, like, from, like, this week, my podcast will be on Luminary as part of their premium content.

01:49:09.000 It's an app through which you'll get all podcasts.

01:49:11.000 But my podcast is, like, you've got to subscribe to that thing.

01:49:14.000 Is that launched now?

01:49:14.000 That's launched.

01:49:14.000 A couple of days.

01:49:15.000 Yeah.

01:49:16.000 I know that was in the process of being created.

01:49:18.000 Are you happy with that so far?

01:49:20.000 Yeah.

01:49:20.000 Because it's not launched, I don't know.

01:49:21.000 But you know that you're going to leave listeners behind because it's gone behind a paywall.

01:49:26.000 But I spoke to Sam Harris about it.

01:49:28.000 Sam Harris actually told me about it.

01:49:31.000 Me too.

01:49:31.000 Yeah, right, right.

01:49:33.000 And I spoke to...

01:49:34.000 And what I recognised is, because the advertising model works, obviously, in your case, and I thought, Well, it was like a good deal.

01:49:43.000 It was a good deal.

01:49:44.000 I meant, oh, I can carry on doing podcasts for two, three years.

01:49:47.000 And it's supporting a lot of other content and essentially not yielding any creative control.

01:49:56.000 If people subscribe, they get the premium content, my stuff.

01:49:59.000 It was only like five bucks a month, right?

01:50:01.000 It's like that, yeah.

01:50:02.000 Trevor Noah, Lena Dunham, mine.

01:50:05.000 How many different podcasts are there?

01:50:07.000 I don't know.

01:50:07.000 I think in their premium content, there's like 40 or 50 premium pieces of content.

01:50:13.000 So for me, it felt like otherwise...

01:50:18.000 Podcasts wouldn't be something that I could continue to do forever because I'd do films or TV shows or stand-up or whatever.

01:50:27.000 For me, it wasn't a viable thing to pay for, to pay for people to run it, to pay for guests to even get to me and all that kind of stuff.

01:50:38.000 Do you do ads on your podcast?

01:50:41.000 I did before, but after this, it's an ad-free model.

01:50:46.000 There's a benefit to that, for sure.

01:50:48.000 A lot of people choose to go ad-free, and then they use Patreon or something like that for listener-supported stuff.

01:50:54.000 Sam Harris was doing that for a long time, but then they had an issue with Patreon about certain censorship of certain individuals and certain ideological perspectives where they were leaning towards left-wing things and being...

01:51:08.000 Being restrictive towards right-wing things, and then, you know, policing the way people behave outside of Patreon, and some people found that objectable.

01:51:18.000 So he left, and some other people left, like Jordan Peterson left.

01:51:23.000 I've never entered into Patreon, into those waters, but I know Burr does it.

01:51:28.000 I think Burr has, like, one a week that he does.

01:51:30.000 Oh, Bill Burr's one?

01:51:32.000 Really?

01:51:32.000 Yeah.

01:51:33.000 He's astonishing.

01:51:34.000 He's one of the best.

01:51:35.000 So, like, I feel like it's an alright thing to do, but even in, like, just with using things like YouTube and social media and, you know, like Spotify, iTunes or whatever, like, you know, as we have seen, there's a point where there is sort of censorship is a possibility like as you discussed on the jack like that run of episodes mate as i said to you by text between the jack dorsey the reaction to that your response to the reaction through alex jones and all that's important i thought that was a spate

01:52:05.000 of podcasts that's like this is where this medium can be the alex jones podcast i thought was the godfather of podcasts we've seen the I was going to put it out tomorrow.

01:52:17.000 He just gave it to me.

01:52:18.000 Do it right now.

01:52:20.000 You want to watch it online?

01:52:21.000 Yeah, we have a guy who's hilarious.

01:52:23.000 His name is Pauly Toon.

01:52:24.000 And Pauly Toon makes animated clips for us of the podcast.

01:52:28.000 And he's fantastic.

01:52:30.000 I couldn't believe that.

01:52:31.000 And he did one of the Alex Jones, Eddie Bravo incident.

01:52:35.000 They're choking.

01:52:36.000 Yeah, well, no, not when he's asking him to choke him.

01:52:39.000 Here.

01:52:39.000 I went to Flat Earth.

01:52:41.000 No, this one. 0.98

01:52:43.000 It's so ridiculous. 0.97

01:52:45.000 Here, we'll play it for you. 0.97

01:52:47.000 Oh, here.

01:52:48.000 What's going on?

01:52:49.000 What's the matter?

01:52:50.000 Oh, okay.

01:52:51.000 Back it up for the beginning then.

01:52:52.000 It was an exception.

01:52:55.000 It even looks like I'm...

01:52:56.000 Here we go.

01:52:59.000 The guy does awesome artwork, too.

01:53:01.000 Listen, we're going to get to this next, and I respect you.

01:53:04.000 Hey, I want you guys to yell at each other for three minutes while I go pee.

01:53:07.000 I got to pee, too.

01:53:08.000 Okay.

01:53:09.000 We'll do it in shifts.

01:53:10.000 I'll go first.

01:53:11.000 Okay.

01:53:12.000 Anyways.

01:53:12.000 You are someone that I could talk to about the flat earth conspiracy.

01:53:18.000 You don't believe in flat earth, but you can kind of understand where I'm coming from.

01:53:22.000 What if I finance a research ship and make a documentary?

01:53:26.000 I can't go away for three months.

01:53:27.000 I will pay.

01:53:28.000 How much money can you raise?

01:53:30.000 We're going to need a...

01:53:31.000 Are you guys going to the moon or in orbit?

01:53:34.000 Okay, you raised the money for a trip to South America.

01:53:36.000 No, there's no raise the money.

01:53:37.000 I got the money!

01:53:38.000 I got the money!

01:53:39.000 Listen, this is the deal.

01:53:42.000 This is the deal.

01:53:43.000 This is the deal.

01:53:44.000 Go pee.

01:53:44.000 Go pee, man.

01:53:46.000 So I'm going to...

01:53:46.000 We're going to do this.

01:53:47.000 We'll send Joe Rogan.

01:53:48.000 No, no.

01:53:48.000 We're going to do this.

01:53:49.000 Joe, it's beyond astronauts.

01:53:51.000 You're going to find the edge of the world.

01:53:52.000 Big ice caps.

01:53:53.000 Cats, they're knocking things off.

01:53:54.000 I'm going to film the drop-off with my iPhone.

01:53:56.000 Yes.

01:53:57.000 Yes.

01:53:58.000 Go pee, man.

01:53:59.000 Go pee.

01:54:00.000 Don't you have to go?

01:54:00.000 We're going to send someone else, Alex, but we're going to do this.

01:54:03.000 You know what?

01:54:04.000 We're going to do this.

01:54:05.000 I don't have to be the one that goes.

01:54:06.000 I don't have to be the one that goes.

01:54:08.000 I don't have to be the one that goes.

01:54:08.000 I've got to pee in a minute.

01:54:09.000 Let me tell you something right now.

01:54:10.000 Let me tell you something right now.

01:54:12.000 I came in and I proved they're keeping babies alive and taking their organs.

01:54:15.000 How did you prove that? 0.99

01:54:17.000 Jamie pulled some shit up on Google? 0.99

01:54:19.000 No, no, no. 1.00

01:54:19.000 They admit it now. 1.00

01:54:20.000 They're normalizing it. 1.00

01:54:21.000 No, the fuck... 1.00

01:54:22.000 The governor! 1.00

01:54:23.000 Listen to me!

01:54:25.000 You really think there's people out there campaigning for late-term abortions? 1.00

01:54:30.000 You think that shit's real? 1.00

01:54:32.000 The Senate voted Monday to keep it legal. 1.00

01:54:35.000 Who would do that?

01:54:37.000 Who would campaign? 1.00

01:54:39.000 They fucking did it, Bravo! 1.00

01:54:41.000 And you can't fucking admit they're fucking killing already born kids! 1.00

01:54:45.000 So you're telling me it isn't real when they had a fucking vote in the goddamn fucking Senate! 1.00

01:54:50.000 That's a conspiracy theory. 1.00

01:54:52.000 I am ready to beat your fucking ass. 1.00

01:54:54.000 You think you're fucking tough, you're about to get it. 1.00

01:54:56.000 Bullshit! 1.00

01:54:57.000 They're killing already born babies! 1.00

01:54:59.000 Stop fucking lying! 1.00

01:55:00.000 God fucking damn it! 1.00

01:55:01.000 I'm getting pissed now. 1.00

01:55:02.000 Don't get pissed.

01:55:03.000 No!

01:55:03.000 I mean, you saw the...

01:55:04.000 Dude, it's going... 1.00

01:55:06.000 I'm just fucking with you. 1.00

01:55:07.000 Alex! 1.00

01:55:08.000 Alex!

01:55:09.000 I'm in right now! 1.00

01:55:10.000 Alex, I was fucking with you! 1.00

01:55:12.000 The fucking Senate voted to kill babies after their fucking bars! 1.00

01:55:16.000 I was just playing with you! 1.00

01:55:18.000 Of course I believe that!

01:55:19.000 We went into a long conversation about it.

01:55:22.000 I heard it!

01:55:23.000 Okay, you heard it.

01:55:23.000 I heard the whole podcast.

01:55:25.000 I'm playing with you.

01:55:26.000 Imagine my psychosis is this.

01:55:29.000 Reality is so crazy that I always thought I was so tough that I'm going to have to pee anymore.

01:55:33.000 I'm going to piss a little bit.

01:55:35.000 The point is that why are we debating whether the earth is flat?

01:55:41.000 Dude, they have human-animal hybrids. 0.95

01:55:46.000 Yeah.

01:55:47.000 That's good stuff.

01:55:48.000 That's what I mean.

01:55:48.000 I feel like that is the pinnacle of where this medium can take us.

01:55:52.000 Yeah.

01:55:52.000 Watching, like, he was in an extreme state.

01:55:55.000 What about when he kept going, baby, comfortable.

01:55:58.000 Keep the baby comfortable.

01:56:00.000 Yeah.

01:56:01.000 Creepy.

01:56:01.000 This is...

01:56:02.000 Like, I listened to that podcast. 0.99

01:56:04.000 Like, I'd go and run, and I'd listen to this, and I thought, fucking hell, man. 0.99

01:56:08.000 Where else are you going to get this content? 0.99

01:56:10.000 Where is that going?

01:56:11.000 Well, there's no one would ever agree to it anywhere else.

01:56:14.000 That's the thing.

01:56:14.000 You'd never get a group of people whose jobs depended upon keeping the show on the air, whether they're producers or executives.

01:56:21.000 They would never agree to that. 1.00

01:56:22.000 They'd be like, you can't have that crazy fucker on. 1.00

01:56:24.000 You can't have this on. 1.00

01:56:25.000 You can't have Eddie Bravo on all the time.

01:56:26.000 He thinks the world is flat.

01:56:28.000 Stop this.

01:56:29.000 Because he's traveling between such diverse and unusual ideas.

01:56:35.000 And sort of the thing with Alex Jones as well is that he's like he demonstrates to a point that there's veracity in what he's saying.

01:56:42.000 Some things, yeah.

01:56:43.000 He's right about a lot of things.

01:56:45.000 You know, when we were talking about animal-human hybrids, we started pulling up these studies where they actually have done studies where they've tried to create animal-human hybrids.

01:56:54.000 Non-viable animal-human embryos.

01:56:56.000 They're trying to grow human organs in different animals. 0.97

01:57:00.000 And there's all sorts of weird scientific shit that we're doing. 0.99

01:57:03.000 Imagine what they're doing in China, behind walls. 0.99

01:57:06.000 Look at this.

01:57:07.000 China's latest cloned monkey experiment is an ethical mess. 0.92

01:57:11.000 Yeah.

01:57:11.000 They use CRISPR to add human genes into monkey genes, and there's like five monkeys.

01:57:15.000 This happened back in January, and I don't know. 0.99

01:57:17.000 Dude, this is a fucking horror movie. 0.99

01:57:19.000 This is a horror movie. 1.00

01:57:20.000 This is how the horror movie begins, right?

01:57:22.000 Because you think that once, if that's what's being revealed, the truth is darker.

01:57:26.000 Yes, for sure.

01:57:27.000 For sure they're trying to create super soldiers.

01:57:30.000 Someone is trying to create some super soldier.

01:57:33.000 Some half-chimp, half-human... 1.00

01:57:36.000 Super-intelligent, murderous thing that's powered by remote control.

01:57:40.000 That is not a good objective.

01:57:42.000 I don't see a good outcome for this super-intelligent, murderous, remote-controlled chimp being. 1.00

01:57:48.000 But what if you could send those super-intelligent, murderous chimps to go kill ISIS? Now we've got a reason to start designing. 1.00

01:57:55.000 Get him out there.

01:57:56.000 Now we need...

01:57:57.000 Look, we've got a nice contract with this defense contractor and they're gonna...

01:58:02.000 That's how we lubricate the passage to the murderous monkeys is ISIS. That's the function of ISIS in the cultural conversation is to justify the monkey soldiers. 0.98

01:58:13.000 Do you know what one scared me more than anyone that I've ever read?

01:58:16.000 I read about this thing that...

01:58:18.000 DARPA was putting together.

01:58:19.000 It's a robot called the Eater Robot, E-A-T-R Robot.

01:58:24.000 It's a robot that fuels itself on biological matter.

01:58:28.000 So it essentially can eat bodies. 0.60

01:58:31.000 So you've got a murderous robot that eats people.

01:58:35.000 It's like the worst kind of things that human beings could achieve.

01:58:41.000 It's like people are sat around trying to come up with them.

01:58:46.000 Well, they're responsible for a lot of really crazy innovation in terms of military stuff.

01:58:52.000 But Boston Dynamics, they're the ones that make those crazy robots, and they work with DARPA, and those are the ones that make those robots that you can't kick over.

01:59:01.000 Right.

01:59:01.000 You know, I mean, that's what you need.

01:59:02.000 One of those that eats people and you send them to the battlefield. 0.98

01:59:05.000 Kick it over! 1.00

01:59:06.000 No, that's the first thing we established, is you can't kick it over.

01:59:10.000 I just think that's the big fear, is that future warfare will be our robots versus their robots, you know?

01:59:17.000 If we're starting to bring about the worst aspects, the worst things that a human being can conceive of, let's channel them through into reality, it does make you feel that the apocalypse is real.

01:59:29.000 I thought it was bad enough when, in the malaise of my younger days, I thought, oh wow, imagine if there was a cleaning service where the person would come around and clean, dressed scantily.

01:59:42.000 They do that.

01:59:43.000 They do that. 0.99

01:59:44.000 Whatever devious shit you can dream up, someone's trying to turn a buck off it, and they've taken it to the extent of the non-kickover robot, flesh-eating robots. 0.99

01:59:54.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.99

01:59:55.000 What is this, Jamie?

01:59:56.000 Is this a new one?

01:59:56.000 It's a new video today.

01:59:57.000 Oh, God.

01:59:58.000 Watch this.

01:59:59.000 This is so scary.

02:00:01.000 Is this Boston Dynamics?

02:00:02.000 Yeah.

02:00:03.000 There's something very eerie about that type of motion.

02:00:05.000 You know, like the way that the movement of a snake is deeply coded to be unpleasant when you see it.

02:00:11.000 There's something about you thinking that movement, you think that ain't good.

02:00:13.000 Answer the truck it's towing.

02:00:15.000 Wow.

02:00:15.000 Oh my god, they're pulling a truck?

02:00:17.000 And it's tiny little tootsies.

02:00:19.000 They're that strong?

02:00:20.000 They can pull a truck? 0.78

02:00:21.000 Ten little robots.

02:00:22.000 That's a giant-ass truck.

02:00:23.000 I mean, it is also just a husky sled made out of expensive robots and a truck.

02:00:28.000 They've spent a lot of time and endeavor to go backwards.

02:00:31.000 I guess, kind of, but...

02:00:33.000 To an evil Santa Claus.

02:00:35.000 They're showing how strong these things are.

02:00:37.000 I don't like their gait, Joe.

02:00:40.000 That's an unpleasant gait.

02:00:42.000 Yeah, you should be uncomfortable with it.

02:00:45.000 Yeah, I'm not at ease with that.

02:00:47.000 Well, it's not humorous, it's not animal, and there's no compassion in it.

02:00:52.000 It's feelingless.

02:00:54.000 But that's what you've got to worry about.

02:00:55.000 Have you ever seen that episode of Black Mirror, where the lady gets chased down by the drones?

02:01:00.000 I've not seen that.

02:01:01.000 What, are there one where they're bees?

02:01:02.000 No, there's a woman who's being haunted.

02:01:04.000 She's being hunted by a robot.

02:01:07.000 And it's terrifying.

02:01:08.000 Because of its remorseless lack of humanity and empathy.

02:01:11.000 Looks just like that.

02:01:12.000 Looks just like those things.

02:01:14.000 Those are real.

02:01:15.000 Charlie Brooker, he's plugged into it.

02:01:17.000 That man's got good imagination.

02:01:18.000 He's amazing.

02:01:19.000 That show is fantastic.

02:01:20.000 But these things, what we have to worry about is once artificial intelligence becomes sentient, and you can somehow or another attach it to these objects that move, And they run on solar power, or they have nuclear fuel cells or some crazy shit that allows them to exist for a long period of time.

02:01:38.000 You don't have to worry about them contaminating environments if you plan on killing everybody in the environment.

02:01:43.000 And also there's no means of regulation, is there?

02:01:46.000 Because this is the apex of human endeavour, what can govern that?

02:01:53.000 What can regulate it?

02:01:54.000 And like you say, there'll be a Chinese equivalent... 0.93

02:01:57.000 For any of this stuff, there's nothing that's above it going, is this a good idea?

02:02:01.000 Should we pull back?

02:02:02.000 He just pulled up a thing that said they're making that now.

02:02:06.000 That one I just showed you.

02:02:07.000 100 different models of it are going to be available starting production this summer.

02:02:11.000 It doesn't say how much they're going to cost.

02:02:14.000 But available for people to buy.

02:02:15.000 Well, it says 100 different models.

02:02:17.000 It says produce 100 models.

02:02:19.000 That probably means it'll produce 100 of them.

02:02:22.000 Like 100 different companies are going to want them.

02:02:24.000 But I bet it's more than that.

02:02:25.000 Depending about how much they cost.

02:02:27.000 It doesn't say how much it's going to cost.

02:02:28.000 They're going to announce that later.

02:02:29.000 But they showed a robot arm coming out.

02:02:32.000 Oh, that looks so creepy.

02:02:33.000 Look at that thing. 0.92

02:02:34.000 Imagine we have one of those things in the room filming...

02:02:37.000 We should get one.

02:02:38.000 No.

02:02:38.000 What if it takes over?

02:02:39.000 One day we come here, it's got red eyes, and it's like, fuck you, fuck you, what you've done to the earth. 1.00

02:02:44.000 We're the first ones to help it. 1.00

02:02:45.000 Don't try and befriend each other.

02:02:47.000 It's going to be listening to us like Alexa.

02:02:49.000 That's how it begins, isn't it?

02:02:51.000 There's something arachnoid and eerie about that.

02:02:54.000 It's almost like, you know, see if this tunes into the DMT component of what we've been talking about.

02:03:00.000 It's almost as if we've already experienced this reality.

02:03:02.000 We've already been through the version where those evil insectoid robots take over.

02:03:07.000 So when we see it on the screen, we think, oh no, we're doing that thing.

02:03:21.000 Oh, right.

02:03:26.000 We had to throw off religion, you know, at the dawn of the secular age because religion was becoming systems of bias and systems of oppression and systems of, what do I want to say, elevating certain types of power and supporting elites.

02:03:41.000 Hang on a minute. 0.99

02:03:42.000 This religion, a lot of it seems like bullshit. 0.99

02:03:44.000 What we've done is we've abandoned the sacred. 0.99

02:03:46.000 And I think if you abandon the sacred, meaning there is more to life than what we can understand.

02:03:51.000 I listened to the Brian Cox episode and I've spoke to Brian Cox, the British physicist, Yeah.

02:04:16.000 We're accessing elements of consciousness, energies and frequencies that we are not able to access while we're in this state.

02:04:23.000 And everything we're achieving and everything we're building, we're building on this platform.

02:04:27.000 And the bias of this platform is towards progress and materialism.

02:04:31.000 And I think the result is flesh-eating robots and those evil monkey warrior soldiers. 0.93

02:04:36.000 I want to calm down and have a little talk about what it is we're trying to design.

02:04:41.000 Yeah, I don't know if I agree with Brian on that particular point that we think we know everything about where consciousness emanates.

02:04:48.000 I don't think that's necessary, but I like the fact that he thinks that way because he's such a rigid hardliner for science and the guy works at CERN. I mean, he's a brilliant, brilliant man, so of course he thinks that way.

02:04:59.000 I also don't think he's ever had a DMT experience.

02:05:02.000 That's right.

02:05:02.000 I wonder that, yeah, some people, I think, give him a quick dose.

02:05:06.000 Because, as well, I respect Brian, and it's further to my point, similar to the hunting argument.

02:05:11.000 I happen to believe in God, but when I talked to Brian Cox, I got to the point where I was saying, all right, even though I believe in God and you are an atheist, although he said I don't call myself an atheist, well, I felt like we both got to the point where we said compassion, kindness, and love are the most important things.

02:05:28.000 So, in this way, who...

02:05:29.000 Who cares how you get there?

02:05:31.000 So when you say you believe in God, do you believe in the traditional God of Christianity?

02:05:35.000 Do you believe in God as a concept?

02:05:37.000 Do you have your own definition for it?

02:05:39.000 I believe that that state of oneness and transcendence that you're talking about through your DMT experiences that says, you know, love and kindness and love and awareness, I believe that is the most real thing.

02:05:52.000 I think that preceded all matter.

02:05:55.000 And I think that we can interact with it.

02:05:59.000 So I don't believe God in just a Gaia way, that the whole world is like an interactive, biological, living, breathing goddess.

02:06:07.000 I believe, yes, that, and that we can commune with it.

02:06:12.000 And furthermore, the relevance of it for me is that it suggests to me that we should be acting kindly and lovingly.

02:06:19.000 And when we're thinking about how do we organise our systems, that our awareness of that energy, accessible to all of us, Should be paramount in our understanding of how we organise.

02:06:30.000 So, like, what I think is, like, that we should look at, you know, like, we've been through it as human beings, so many advents, the agriculture, technology, industry, thinking that we were, that the, you know, the sun went round the earth, thinking that the earth was flat, with all due respect to Eddie Bravo.

02:06:48.000 And before each of these realisations and each of these changes, we always think we're at the summit.

02:06:53.000 We never know what's going to be the thing that's going to change.

02:06:56.000 My suspicion is that what's going to change is the way we relate to consciousness and the way we see ourselves as individuals, that we start to have an understanding that what...

02:07:05.000 That becomes a priority.

02:07:06.000 That thing you described of like, when I have come back from DMT trips, I recognise this is just an illusion and it's not real.

02:07:12.000 I think that will start...

02:07:13.000 I believe that we need to prioritise that and progressing along that line.

02:07:18.000 What are the implications of this not being the most real frequency there is?

02:07:23.000 How do we organise society on that basis?

02:07:25.000 How does that affect how we relate to one another?

02:07:27.000 What kind of...

02:07:28.000 How should we be governing?

02:07:30.000 How does that affect justice?

02:07:31.000 That that should be in the mix instead of... 1.00

02:07:33.000 How many fucking terrifying arachnoid weird gate robot motherfuckers can we cook up? 1.00

02:07:40.000 That's the way we're going. 0.99

02:07:41.000 The progressive technological route, because it's created medicine, because it's saved so many lives, because it's given us wonderful technology, the spirit of entrepreneurship, but all of that energy, it all gets pushed in one direction.

02:07:52.000 It all goes that way, and I feel that we need to invite that back.

02:07:56.000 The sacred and the divine need to be back in the conversation.

02:07:59.000 Well, there's certainly going to be pros and cons with everything.

02:08:02.000 There's definitely pros and cons with the creation of technology.

02:08:06.000 I think of human beings as...

02:08:10.000 If you go back to single-celled organisms, they have very little awareness of their environment.

02:08:14.000 And then as it became primitive bugs, as things evolved, they developed more awareness.

02:08:22.000 But even us in comparison to certain animals.

02:08:24.000 Certain animals have heightened senses of smell and survival instincts, but they're also colorblind.

02:08:29.000 They don't see things.

02:08:31.000 They see edge detection.

02:08:32.000 That's one of the things about deer.

02:08:35.000 They see movement.

02:08:36.000 So if you wear camouflage and your pattern is broken up with a grid and then you stay put, they don't see you.

02:08:44.000 It doesn't register to them.

02:08:47.000 They see movement.

02:08:48.000 So we have a far more complex system of recognition than they do in terms of visually, the way we see things.

02:08:57.000 And I think that whatever skills or whatever senses that we've evolved, I don't think that's it.

02:09:05.000 I don't think that we've reached the pinnacle of it.

02:09:08.000 And I think that as beings become more and more evolved, they'll probably gain more and more senses.

02:09:14.000 And that could be directly related to technology.

02:09:19.000 It's totally possible that what's going on with technologies that we're also developing through external means, a way for us to see the world, a way for us to view...

02:09:29.000 Like what they've done with the Large Hadron Collider is like the best example of it, right?

02:09:33.000 What they do with the Hubble Space Telescope and other telescopes.

02:09:36.000 You're using technology to gain awareness and to see more things.

02:09:40.000 And that this is the good side of technology, is that it's...

02:09:45.000 Allowing us to have a far greater understanding of all the variables that surround us that we might not be able to detect with our senses.

02:09:53.000 That this is a part of who we are.

02:09:55.000 And then I think when you're talking about things like psychedelic experiences, that's probably another realm of understanding that we haven't really achieved yet because we're still evolving as a species, as a thing.

02:10:07.000 What I think is interesting is that the continual bias along that technological path is towards profit.

02:10:15.000 You know, when we see those machines, the end point is always how do we maximize profit?

02:10:21.000 There is no, like, the influence of how do we do what's right.

02:10:25.000 That's like a sort of a general, ethical...

02:10:31.000 What do I want to say?

02:10:32.000 Code is not being introduced.

02:10:34.000 There is no regulation.

02:10:37.000 Ultimately, people will create the warrior monkeys or the most profitable machines.

02:10:43.000 Because the counter-argument isn't being made.

02:10:47.000 No one is making it.

02:10:49.000 There's no union of...

02:10:52.000 There's no sort of clear opinion of, hang on a minute, where could we be going?

02:10:57.000 There is no body or ideology that's able to oppose the relentless march of capitalism.

02:11:04.000 I'm not sort of like a flat out of capitalism is bad.

02:11:06.000 Here I am promoting a book, using an iPhone.

02:11:09.000 We're all swimming in it.

02:11:11.000 But what I'm saying is that...

02:11:14.000 If we acknowledge there are transcendent realms, there is information, date and data that exists beyond what we're able to receive with our senses, how are we going to incorporate that in the way we organise?

02:11:25.000 Because otherwise, the magnetism, the pull, the g-force of what's most profitable...

02:11:29.000 What's going to continue to suit the requirements of the powerful, the bias will always fall in that direction.

02:11:37.000 And it seems like where that's heading is certain kinds of ecological disaster, certain kinds of economic inequality, certain kinds of conflict.

02:11:45.000 One of the simple experiments that I apply is, if people say, oh, what's wrong with the world? 0.92

02:11:52.000 The world's so fucked, all this polarity. 0.94

02:11:53.000 I sometimes think, well, who is benefiting from how it is now? 0.99

02:11:56.000 Is anyone benefiting?

02:11:58.000 Are there any groups, institutions or individuals for whom this current state is beneficial?

02:12:03.000 And if the answer to that question is yes, then look at who those institutions are and they are most likely to a degree involved in establishing and maintaining these systems.

02:12:14.000 And there are, you know, institutions and individuals and organisations that this works just fine for.

02:12:21.000 But are they just capitalizing on it or are they organizing it?

02:12:24.000 It is a normal part of the way human beings operate with this constant desire for innovation, constant desire for improvement.

02:12:31.000 We always want to push further.

02:12:33.000 No one's comfortable with where they are.

02:12:35.000 They always want to be in a better place.

02:12:36.000 And this is almost like it's built into capitalism, right?

02:12:39.000 I agree.

02:12:40.000 That this materialism, which is built into capitalism, also is what fuels innovation.

02:12:45.000 Yes.

02:12:45.000 Because you want the newest iPhones, so they have to design it and build it and make it.

02:12:49.000 I agree.

02:12:49.000 And when new things come out, like this new robot that apparently you're going to 100 models, whatever that means, what that is is they're going to sell it.

02:12:58.000 So it's fueling innovation.

02:13:01.000 Someone else will come along and compete with Boston Dynamics, and then there will be innovation wars.

02:13:05.000 If these innovation wars weren't...

02:13:08.000 In place right now, our phones would look nothing like the iPhone X. It just wouldn't.

02:13:12.000 It wouldn't look like the SX. Who knows what it would look like?

02:13:16.000 But there would be no incentive for them to compete against all these Samsung devices and Huawei devices.

02:13:23.000 All that stuff is fueling this innovation, but it's all being fueled by capitalism.

02:13:27.000 You're quite right that innovation is one of the benefits of maintaining this system.

02:13:33.000 But it seems to me that we are excluding other factors that recur throughout human cultures.

02:13:41.000 We all have an idea of fairness, of justice.

02:13:44.000 And yeah, I don't want some clunky, weird, sort of, eastern block phone made out of grey plastic with only one button on it.

02:13:52.000 But like...

02:13:53.000 We have to, I suppose, examine as a society and as individuals what is important to us.

02:14:00.000 Where I think we've touched several times upon the fact that as an individual you're more likely to bias yourself towards negative information online.

02:14:09.000 We do have a degree of individual power and individual responsibility, and I feel like if enough people awaken to the possibility of different narratives, that the capitalist idea of innovation and success and progress, that all of these words can be examined.

02:14:25.000 What do you mean, progress?

02:14:27.000 That assumes a teleology, a purpose, a destination.

02:14:30.000 If all time is happening at once, if space is infinite, like that bit of yours to try and We're good to go.

02:15:19.000 I'm interested in how we can individually prepare ourselves to organise society differently, to be able to overcome Pretty superficial differences like, oh, you go hunting, I don't go hunting. 0.99

02:15:34.000 Who gives a fuck? 0.56

02:15:35.000 They start talking about how we can organise ourselves where people who go hunting or don't go hunting can live peacefully in different ways, not entirely governed by a small cabal, and I'm sure power is more complex than that, that seem to be hugely biasing the direction of this so-called progress. 0.98

02:15:52.000 I think you answered your own previous questions when you're talking about whether or not you can be spiritual and funny and like, what are you doing?

02:15:58.000 Can you carve that path out for yourself?

02:16:01.000 What you're doing there by explaining that would influence people, would give people a perspective that allows them to say, yeah, like, why are we doing this and what is the purpose of this?

02:16:10.000 And if enough people hear those words and have that perspective introduced to them, it'll change the way they interact with the world, and that changes the world.

02:16:19.000 It really does.

02:16:21.000 That's one of the more powerful things about discussions.

02:16:24.000 When someone like you says something like that and it resonates with people and they start thinking like, why am I living like this?

02:16:29.000 If I really do only have 50 years to live, why am I living these 50 years in some really unproductive bullshit way that's not satisfying at all?

02:16:40.000 Because I just want a bigger house? 0.67

02:16:41.000 What is it?

02:16:42.000 Do I want a What is the purpose of this path that I'm on now versus a path that I could be on?

02:16:53.000 And what is the real conflict that we all experience between each other?

02:16:59.000 How much of it is due to a lack of communication?

02:17:01.000 How much of it is due to a lack of real listening and understanding?

02:17:04.000 One of the things I've said about comments and podcasts and stuff like that, I think one of the reasons why a lot of people get mad, and I've tried to think this through, why some people, Some of the responses so negative to things that seem innocuous on the outside.

02:17:17.000 I think it's because it's frustrating when you don't have a say.

02:17:21.000 You and I are talking about something. 1.00

02:17:23.000 There's probably some guy right now going, well, just fucking stop with all your spiritual bullshit. 1.00

02:17:29.000 Here's what you do. 1.00

02:17:30.000 You wake up when your fucking alarm clock goes off. 1.00

02:17:33.000 You never hit snooze. 1.00

02:17:34.000 You get out the door.

02:17:35.000 You put your hours in.

02:17:37.000 Eventually, you get better.

02:17:38.000 You take care of your family. 1.00

02:17:39.000 You act like a fucking man. 1.00

02:17:41.000 And there's probably people like that that are upset. 1.00

02:17:43.000 They feel like we're pontificating too much. 0.99

02:17:45.000 And this is all just, you know, just mental masturbation. 0.99

02:17:49.000 You're right. 0.95

02:17:49.000 In ways it is, but that's part of how you dissolve these things and think these things through. 0.95

02:17:53.000 I believe they deserve their say as well.

02:17:56.000 And that's one of the things that, you know, being a person that goes to sort of 12-step support groups is you recognize that everyone's individual experience is valuable.

02:18:04.000 Yes.

02:18:05.000 That it's not like that.

02:18:05.000 And I've got over the idea that, That some external thing can be imposed.

02:18:11.000 And whilst there are many people that are, we could say, not using their 50 years to maximum effect because they're pursuing odd material goals, there are many, many more people that have never been introduced to the idea of freedom because from the moment they're born,

02:18:28.000 they're economically tyrannized.

02:18:31.000 Yeah.

02:18:31.000 If you are not economically valuable to this system, you are not valuable at all.

02:18:36.000 And that's only an idea. 1.00

02:18:38.000 If you can't become a lawyer or a comedian or whatever, fuck you. 1.00

02:18:43.000 Well, so many of us are trapped in the expectations and values of our parents, too. 1.00

02:18:48.000 That's a real problem with people don't let their children become an individual.

02:18:52.000 They force their children to follow their own rigid ideology and they shame them when they don't.

02:18:58.000 I agree with that, but do you not imagine that a fair degree of that stuff is unconscious?

02:19:03.000 Do you not think that you and I are probably unconsciously imposing things on our kids?

02:19:08.000 Oh, 100%.

02:19:09.000 But not with guilt. 0.99

02:19:10.000 I mean, if your kid comes to you and says, Dad, I know you wanted me to be a doctor, but fuck it, I want to play bongos. 0.99

02:19:16.000 I just want to be the best bongo player of all time. 1.00

02:19:18.000 I bet you'd probably be like, hey, learn the fucking bongos. 0.99

02:19:21.000 Give me a hug. 1.00

02:19:22.000 Go get those bongos. 0.99

02:19:24.000 Get out there and become the best damn bongo-er you can. 1.00

02:19:27.000 Or even mediocre. 0.99

02:19:28.000 Sure. 1.00

02:19:28.000 But there are fathers out there who'd be like, the fuck you are. 1.00

02:19:32.000 You're going to be a goddamn doctor. 1.00

02:19:33.000 Stop being a pussy. 1.00

02:19:34.000 And you're going to go back to medical school and you're going to pick up your studies. 1.00

02:19:37.000 We're going to get you a tutor.

02:19:38.000 And you're going to perform because we're a Wilson.

02:19:41.000 You're a Wilson, and this Wilson family's been physicians since 1820!

02:19:45.000 Your grandfather!

02:19:46.000 Time immemorial, the Wilsons have been physicians!

02:19:49.000 He made people bite down on a leather strap before amnesia, and he sawed off legs, and he kept those people alive! 1.00

02:19:54.000 You wanna play bongos, you little fuck! 1.00

02:19:57.000 Yeah, people get mad. 1.00

02:19:58.000 But my bias is towards my kid.

02:20:01.000 Like, when we was back in England, I was aware of grandparents or whatever reacting to spiders and stuff going, oh, spiders are scary. 0.98

02:20:10.000 I'm like, don't fucking teach them that Spiders are scary. 0.94

02:20:13.000 I don't want her to think of things as scary. 0.99

02:20:16.000 Spiders are cool.

02:20:17.000 They're alright.

02:20:20.000 You're aware of familial influence.

02:20:22.000 They want the hair to be a certain way.

02:20:24.000 They want them to wear certain things.

02:20:26.000 Part of the veganism is like, if you make these kids vegan, at least now I know wherever they go, there's going to be so many restrictions on their food.

02:20:33.000 I've not made the kids vegan.

02:20:35.000 It's up to them.

02:20:36.000 Thank you.

02:20:37.000 Where's my gold star?

02:20:38.000 Where's my ticker tape parade?

02:20:42.000 We don't know our own biases.

02:20:47.000 We don't know where we've been institutionalized.

02:20:51.000 The very nature of the unconscious is we are not aware of it.

02:20:54.000 So I suppose, in a sense, a continued open-mindedness and a willingness to change must be part of any dialogue to go into these situations.

02:21:03.000 Do you know what?

02:21:03.000 I might not actually know what's...

02:21:05.000 That's why I'm not...

02:21:06.000 When I was 20, if you'd have said about the hunting, I'd be like, oh, no, man.

02:21:11.000 Now I'm like...

02:21:11.000 Yeah, Jesus, there's so many ways of seeing the world.

02:21:14.000 There's so many ways of looking at what's natural and what's correct.

02:21:17.000 You know, what do I know?

02:21:18.000 I think with hunting, hunting is like many things in that there's no real clean answer.

02:21:23.000 There's no yes or no, good or bad.

02:21:26.000 Because you could think there is, but then you find circumstances like wild pigs or invasive species.

02:21:32.000 Like, I go hunting on a place called Lanai.

02:21:35.000 It's one of the small islands of Hawaii.

02:21:38.000 There's somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,000 people and 20,000 deer.

02:21:45.000 It is so overpopulated with deer.

02:21:48.000 And they have to kill them. 0.93

02:21:49.000 They kill them every day. 1.00

02:21:50.000 They hire snipers. 1.00

02:21:51.000 They hire people to kill them. 0.98

02:21:52.000 People are slamming in them with their cars. 1.00

02:21:54.000 I mean, they're fucking everywhere. 0.99

02:21:55.000 And they're Axis deer. 0.99

02:21:57.000 They're not even from there.

02:21:59.000 Someone brought them over from India to give to King Kamehameha in like the 1800s.

02:22:04.000 They're animals, actually, that evolved to get away from tigers.

02:22:07.000 So there's this insanely fast, beautiful deer that are everywhere.

02:22:11.000 They're forced to kill.

02:22:12.000 Well, the good news is the people that are low-income people of the island always have meat. 1.00

02:22:17.000 There's meat everywhere.

02:22:18.000 Everyone can hunt.

02:22:19.000 It's really easy to find them. 1.00

02:22:21.000 You can find them, and if you want, you can go kill them. 1.00

02:22:24.000 Yeah, I've got no moral judgment about that. 1.00

02:22:27.000 You know, if there's rats in my house, what, I'm not going to put down poison?

02:22:30.000 I'm going to go, oh, rats are allowed to flourish.

02:22:31.000 But that's the thing, right? 0.95

02:22:31.000 Rats are allowed to flourish. 0.95

02:22:33.000 You should probably feel bad about killing a rat, right? 0.98

02:22:36.000 As a vegan, I do feel bad. 0.94

02:22:37.000 Do you feel bad about swatting mosquitoes?

02:22:38.000 I feel bad about everything.

02:22:39.000 I'm hungry.

02:22:40.000 What about, yeah.

02:22:42.000 I wouldn't swat a mosquito.

02:22:45.000 You won't?

02:22:45.000 Even the Dalai Lama.

02:22:47.000 Really?

02:22:47.000 Even the Dalai Lama, though, I see him, he went, like, the first time, a gentle brush, the second time, a harder one, third time, smack!

02:22:54.000 The Dalai Lama, like, you know, the Dalai Lama gives him free chances.

02:22:58.000 But then you're out.

02:23:00.000 You might be reincarnated or something better.

02:23:02.000 Can I go for a pee, please?

02:23:03.000 Yeah, sure, sure.

02:23:04.000 Go ahead, man.

02:23:05.000 It's almost three o'clock already, can you believe it or not?

02:23:15.000 He's such a character, isn't he?

02:23:16.000 He's got these incredibly long rants, you know?

02:23:20.000 But he's so self-aware and introspective.

02:23:24.000 He's always analyzing himself, trying to find out if he's doing right.

02:23:28.000 I get a kick out of these celebrity dudes doing jujitsu, too.

02:23:31.000 I think it's hilarious.

02:23:32.000 It's awesome.

02:23:33.000 It's cool.

02:23:34.000 It's cool to hear them talk about it.

02:23:36.000 You can tell the struggles with it.

02:23:38.000 I just saw someone else that just started it, and I can't remember who it was.

02:23:42.000 Someone famous?

02:23:43.000 Yeah, it might not be relevant at all, but I'm trying to... 0.97

02:23:45.000 I think Demi Lovato is like a purple belt or some shit. 1.00

02:23:49.000 She's been into it for a long time. 0.96

02:23:51.000 Russell, who I've trained with, Russell's a legit blue belt.

02:23:55.000 I rolled with Russell, and I was like, wow, Russell really knows jiu-jitsu.

02:24:00.000 He's actually doing the right stuff here.

02:24:02.000 It's hard.

02:24:04.000 It's hard for someone to go from a place of where a guy like Russell Brand is.

02:24:12.000 Handsome, beautiful, famous man who has got some strange plumber sitting on his face, yanking on his arm.

02:24:22.000 His description of it is awesome. 0.99

02:24:24.000 Yeah, filled with feces in his bowels. 0.96

02:24:27.000 Yeah. 0.93

02:24:29.000 That veganism stuff is for the birds, though.

02:24:31.000 Sorry, vegan people. 0.90

02:24:33.000 To eat eggs.

02:24:34.000 If you don't want to kill any animals, please just find a good farm that has pasture-raised eggs and see how much better you feel. 1.00

02:24:42.000 Or eat animals that are assholes. 1.00

02:24:44.000 Find animals that are assholes in the woods. 1.00

02:24:47.000 Only eat the assholes. 1.00

02:24:49.000 Somebody sent me this horrible video that I've seen many times before of a bear killing a deer in a backyard and the deer screaming and the bear's tearing it apart. 1.00

02:24:58.000 I'm sure you've seen that before, right?

02:25:00.000 And he sent it to me and he goes, okay, now I get it.

02:25:04.000 Like, I didn't think...

02:25:07.000 I thought, like, if a bear got a deer, that it would be just, oh, hey, this is just how nature works.

02:25:13.000 Like, no, this is a horrific, violent act of this animal tearing this other animal apart.

02:25:19.000 Now, would you prefer that than a hunter?

02:25:22.000 Because 99 times out of 100, when a hunter kills an animal, it's way quicker.

02:25:28.000 There, that's the video.

02:25:29.000 It's horrible. 0.82

02:25:31.000 It's a horrible video, this animal.

02:25:34.000 I think it's actually a black bear.

02:25:36.000 I think it's either a grizzly or a color-phase black bear, but it takes a long time, too.

02:25:42.000 If you haven't seen the video, it's a long one, and the animal makes some horrible noises.

02:25:47.000 We're talking about Russell Returns.

02:25:49.000 We're talking about a video that I've seen before about this bear that kills this deer in this guy's yard.

02:25:56.000 The guy films it, and the deer's making these horrible noises.

02:25:59.000 And this guy sent it to me and he goes, now I get it.

02:26:03.000 He goes, I get what the wild is actually all about.

02:26:05.000 Because you don't really see it that much.

02:26:07.000 It's very rare that you actually see an animal kill an animal.

02:26:10.000 So we have these romantic, Disney-fied ideas of what the food chain looks like out there.

02:26:16.000 Yeah, nature's brutal.

02:26:17.000 I mean, I don't try and impose on my dog the kind of conditions that I would hold myself to.

02:26:23.000 You should have an organic garden if you really want to do it, right? 0.92

02:26:26.000 Because if you're getting into large-scale agriculture, you're buying food from people that grow it, they're running over fucking rabbits and mice and killing things with pesticides. 0.96

02:26:35.000 Yeah. 0.97

02:26:36.000 There's no removing yourself from death just by eating vegetables.

02:26:40.000 You don't.

02:26:42.000 Also, with large-scale agriculture, that ground, all those animals get displaced.

02:26:50.000 It fucks the whole ecosystem up, whatever area they're planting on, and then when they roll over it with those gigantic combines and Pull up that grain.

02:26:58.000 They're chewing up everything.

02:26:59.000 That's why vultures always circle where combines are.

02:27:02.000 As soon as they have fresh cut, the vultures start showing up because they know there's going to be something that got jacked.

02:27:07.000 See, once you know that monoculture is unhealthy, the only resistance to altering it, to having permaculture and healthier, better agricultural models, is commerce and profit.

02:27:23.000 That's the objective.

02:27:24.000 No, no, no.

02:27:25.000 Communes.

02:27:25.000 What you could have is community gardens.

02:27:27.000 Yes, yes, you could.

02:27:28.000 But if we start saying, hey, why don't we not have monoculture anymore because it's unfair and it's unreasonable, they go, we can't because it's profitable to have it and people won't be able to afford food.

02:27:40.000 But all of that is like an interrelated system that's sort of gridlocked into protecting itself.

02:27:46.000 You know, like there's a spiritual maxim, wisdom is acting on knowledge and that is not the world we live in.

02:27:52.000 We know things and then we just ignore it, you know, like as individuals or as, you know, corporations and as groups.

02:28:01.000 And like what I feel like I'm trying to do as an individual is hold myself to that standard.

02:28:05.000 Like, I know that's not good for me to do that anymore.

02:28:07.000 I'm not going to do that.

02:28:08.000 I'm going to watch myself and I'm going to watch that behaviour and I'm going to try and improve.

02:28:13.000 You know, like I don't want to go...

02:28:15.000 Like, when my first impulse and heading down to the Hibiru Jiu-Jitsu places, I feel nervous.

02:28:20.000 I don't feel confident doing it.

02:28:22.000 I don't want to go.

02:28:23.000 Or whether it's, like, giving up me or whatever.

02:28:25.000 But I'm doing these things in a sense that I think these are the kind of improvements I can make.

02:28:29.000 Now, like...

02:28:31.000 We almost don't expect that of politics anymore.

02:28:34.000 You don't expect a political figure to say, well, listen, monoculture is having a terrible impact.

02:28:39.000 They'll make some gestural thing, wouldn't they?

02:28:41.000 They'll go, look, we're going to try and control Facebook and Google a little bit.

02:28:45.000 We're going to try and reduce emissions, this amount.

02:28:48.000 They'll go, listen, we know that's wrong.

02:28:49.000 We're not going to do that anymore because there's too many powerful interests.

02:28:53.000 That's why I was susceptible to the vegan documentary.

02:28:55.000 Of course, there's the ethical reasons, in my opinion, for becoming...

02:28:58.000 Vegan, but because it's like the reason that these kind of foods are promoted is because these powerful groups lobby government and lobby the group, the organizations that set the standards until they shut up and comply.

02:29:12.000 You could sort of say that about vegetable-based foods, too.

02:29:16.000 I mean, do you think there's powerful vegan lobbies that you still seem so vulnerable?

02:29:20.000 No, vegetables.

02:29:22.000 Just corn.

02:29:23.000 Just growing corn.

02:29:24.000 Right, definitely.

02:29:24.000 I agree with you.

02:29:26.000 That's the same, that is the same, you know, like you're saying, that the reason that is continuing is because it's profitable, but these ideas aren't going to get explored because we're on one path, one teleological journey.

02:29:37.000 Like, that's sometimes what I feel like when people talk about the threats of different cultural influence, e.g.

02:29:44.000 Islam, for example, right?

02:29:45.000 I feel like, well, we already live in a kind of fundamentalism that's invisible to us because it's all we know.

02:29:51.000 We live in a culture that if something isn't profitable, it will not survive.

02:29:55.000 And I don't think that's how human beings are set up to exist.

02:29:58.000 I have this rather lovely anecdote about, like, I was coming back from a gig and there was a woman, like, she had a car broke down the side of the road.

02:30:05.000 I had a driver.

02:30:06.000 Forgive me.

02:30:07.000 I'm not poor anymore.

02:30:08.000 Forgive me.

02:30:09.000 I had a driver, and we see this woman, she's by the side of the road, her car's broke down, and different, like, it's a night time, and a few different people stop and help her.

02:30:17.000 The first guy is like, this is in England, it's like a Polish immigrant guy, comes and helps.

02:30:21.000 You know, my driver is a Muslim geezer, he's helping. 0.51

02:30:25.000 I'm trying to help.

02:30:26.000 Pretty inefficient, may I say, because you know, like, if you're a famous person, when you go into a situation, there's sometimes you don't want to be recognised, there's other times it's quite good to be recognised.

02:30:35.000 When you're not recognised at all, I always think, oh, I'm not being All recognised in this situation.

02:30:40.000 No one recognised me in that time.

02:30:41.000 So I was just a weird geezer at the side of the road trying to help someone who had a minor accident without any relevant skills.

02:30:48.000 Then someone stopped with relevant skills.

02:30:50.000 He was like a paramedic.

02:30:51.000 He took control of the situation.

02:30:53.000 He was ordering people around.

02:30:54.000 You stand here.

02:30:55.000 You do this.

02:30:55.000 Go and get that.

02:30:56.000 Go and get my head torch, he said at one point. 1.00

02:30:58.000 He had a fucking head torch. 1.00

02:30:59.000 This guy's serious. 1.00

02:31:00.000 He brilliantly resolved the situation.

02:31:04.000 What was he doing with the head torch?

02:31:05.000 Do you mean like a light?

02:31:06.000 He had a head torch.

02:31:07.000 A light?

02:31:08.000 Yeah.

02:31:09.000 Okay, not a torch.

02:31:10.000 Like a light.

02:31:10.000 Is he burning?

02:31:12.000 Is he welding?

02:31:13.000 What is he doing?

02:31:14.000 It didn't emit heat.

02:31:15.000 All right, fair enough.

02:31:16.000 Yeah, this is my beer.

02:31:16.000 It didn't emit heat.

02:31:17.000 It didn't emit heat.

02:31:18.000 Right, right, right.

02:31:18.000 I just wanted to clarify.

02:31:19.000 In my country. 0.91

02:31:20.000 You British people are so strange. 1.00

02:31:22.000 Even the way you spell tires. 0.85

02:31:24.000 Like, what's that Y doing in there? 0.99

02:31:25.000 That's necessary.

02:31:27.000 That's for Queen's Y. Why does color have a U in it? 0.68

02:31:31.000 You need that, you, to round off the second syllable of colour, you savage yank brutes with your colour. 0.90

02:31:39.000 Colour. 0.95

02:31:40.000 No, it's a diphthong. 0.95

02:31:41.000 Colour.

02:31:42.000 Colour.

02:31:42.000 We can't even say snooker.

02:31:45.000 We say snooker.

02:31:46.000 We can't even pronounce a sport that we don't ever play.

02:31:49.000 Birmingham.

02:31:50.000 We burn ham?

02:31:53.000 Catastrophe, the way you talk.

02:31:54.000 How do we burn ham?

02:31:55.000 Birmingham.

02:31:57.000 Birmingham.

02:31:58.000 Birmingham.

02:31:59.000 Birmingham.

02:32:00.000 That's right.

02:32:00.000 Listen, this guy had what you would evidently call a headlight, but even that doesn't sound right.

02:32:05.000 Headlamp.

02:32:06.000 A headlamp.

02:32:07.000 That's an odd thing to have in your vehicle.

02:32:09.000 No, no, no.

02:32:10.000 I have one.

02:32:10.000 What, you got a headlamp in your car?

02:32:12.000 Yes, yes.

02:32:12.000 What are you anticipating?

02:32:14.000 If you get stuck somewhere, man.

02:32:15.000 If anything happens, you should have a headlamp.

02:32:17.000 This is the kind of person that you want pulling over. 0.98

02:32:19.000 Well, listen, when you go hunting, one of the things that happens is you're in the woods, and when it happens when the sun goes down, you can't see where the fuck you're going. 0.98

02:32:26.000 You have to have a headlamp. 0.96

02:32:27.000 How much distance?

02:32:28.000 Every hunter has a headlamp.

02:32:29.000 Very far.

02:32:30.000 I have a really good one.

02:32:32.000 Honestly.

02:32:33.000 Yeah, I have a really good one.

02:32:33.000 So you're lighting stuff up.

02:32:35.000 Isn't that going to alert the...

02:32:37.000 Well, you don't hunt at night.

02:32:38.000 Right.

02:32:39.000 It's illegal.

02:32:40.000 Once the sun goes down, there's no hunting.

02:32:42.000 You have to be able to see what you're shooting at, otherwise you shoot a person. 1.00

02:32:44.000 So you have these fucking... 0.99

02:32:46.000 Some sorts of rules. 1.00

02:32:47.000 Lights on your head are just to help you navigate through the woods and to spot predators.

02:32:50.000 Because, of course, if you're vulnerable...

02:32:52.000 You know, and you see giant eyes ahead that are nine feet off the ground. 0.99

02:32:56.000 You're like, oh, fuck, it's a bear. 0.99

02:32:58.000 It's a two-way street hunting. 1.00

02:33:00.000 It's like, hold on, the hunter's become hunted.

02:33:03.000 That happens.

02:33:04.000 I've had experiences where I've ran into predators in the wild, particularly one time in Canada I ran into a grizzly bear.

02:33:31.000 It's really interesting.

02:33:34.000 I made eye contact with a couple of predators.

02:33:38.000 A shark once in a shark cage.

02:33:40.000 Like when I was doing that film Sarah Marshall that I'd done years ago.

02:33:43.000 Or went in a shark cage and they lower you down and you see a shark come towards you.

02:33:48.000 It's like it's swimming through time.

02:33:50.000 It's like it's come from another ear. 1.00

02:33:51.000 It looks at you like you think, whoa, fucking hell. 1.00

02:33:54.000 And I was terrified in that cage. 0.99

02:33:57.000 And Ed Norton was there and Woody Arlson, they were on that island as well.

02:34:01.000 They were mates with people that were on the movie.

02:34:02.000 They got in the water outside of the cage. 1.00

02:34:05.000 Oh, they're out of their fucking mind. 1.00

02:34:06.000 That's insane, isn't it? 1.00

02:34:07.000 The shark was little, and apparently it's not the kind of shark that eats you, but even the eye contact, it's little and it's fucking teeth. 0.99

02:34:12.000 I don't even look at it. 0.97

02:34:13.000 And then, another thing I looked at once, I was in a tiger sanctuary in India, and I, like, I didn't like the vehicle I was in.

02:34:21.000 This is a... 0.85

02:34:23.000 I should have made me suck with that, actually. 0.98

02:34:25.000 This ain't comfortable. 0.97

02:34:26.000 There's a better Jeep over there.

02:34:28.000 So I got out of it to transition, and my mate goes, you want to get in the car now, mate? 0.99

02:34:32.000 There's a fucking tiger over there. 0.98

02:34:33.000 And there was a tiger, like, only ten foot away. 1.00

02:34:37.000 Just this...

02:34:37.000 Maybe I'm exaggerating.

02:34:39.000 Hold on.

02:34:39.000 A twenty foot maximum.

02:34:40.000 Like, it was near.

02:34:41.000 And the way that that thing looked...

02:34:43.000 I mean, because it's so beautiful... 1.00

02:34:45.000 As well, the intensity of being looked at by that fucking creature. 1.00

02:34:49.000 That was some powerful shit. 1.00

02:34:50.000 You don't want eye contact with that. 0.99

02:34:52.000 I don't want to look at something that's got, like, that you can't negotiate with.

02:34:56.000 That you can't, I feel like, look at me, even with the jiu-jitsu, like, I've got that little moment where I go, hey, come on, it's old Russ.

02:35:01.000 Yeah, there's no negotiating.

02:35:03.000 He doesn't care about your mortgage.

02:35:05.000 Yeah, neither does that grizzly bear.

02:35:06.000 He doesn't care.

02:35:07.000 They look through you.

02:35:08.000 I've got kids!

02:35:08.000 Yeah, they don't care.

02:35:10.000 But that's all it's doing all day long, is killing things.

02:35:13.000 It's unbelievable, because that's as true as everything we reflect on. 0.99

02:35:17.000 To ask, who gives a shit about your theories? 0.98

02:35:19.000 Most people don't know what that is. 0.98

02:35:21.000 So their idea of what the wild is, is really based on two things.

02:35:25.000 One, their actual love of animals they know, right?

02:35:29.000 It's like dogs and cats.

02:35:31.000 So the animals that we know, we have this connection with them, so we think that these are animals.

02:35:36.000 They're science projects, man.

02:35:38.000 Those are not animals. 0.99

02:35:39.000 Real animals don't give a fuck about you. 0.99

02:35:42.000 They're either indifferent to you or they're scared of you or they want to eat you. 0.99

02:35:47.000 That's real animals.

02:35:48.000 The relationship that you have with a dog is like a child.

02:35:52.000 Like, my dog is more like a child to me than he is like an animal.

02:35:56.000 I mean, he's like my little friend that doesn't get to speak.

02:36:00.000 He doesn't talk, but, you know...

02:36:02.000 An animal in the wild is a competing organism.

02:36:06.000 They're competing amongst all the various organisms in whatever ecosystem they're in.

02:36:11.000 And either they're at the top or they're somewhere below that.

02:36:15.000 And that's just how it goes.

02:36:16.000 And every deer is looking around because there's cats. 0.99

02:36:19.000 And the cats are slowly sneaking up on them every fucking day of the week. 0.95

02:36:23.000 And if you go in a place where there's deer, you best believe there's going to be mountain lions there, because that's how it operates. 0.98

02:36:29.000 And when you see that in the wild, it's so rare.

02:36:31.000 It's so rare to be around that.

02:36:33.000 But when you see that in the wild, then you get a deeper understanding of what it means to be an animal.

02:36:37.000 What's horrific is factory farming.

02:36:40.000 What's perverse and disgusting is the way animals are treated when these livestock companies... 1.00

02:36:47.000 Pump these animals in these warehouses and make them stand in their own shit all day and then abuse them and the horrific nature in which they're raised. 0.99

02:36:55.000 Yeah, all that should be illegal. 0.99

02:36:56.000 Ag gag laws, those laws where whistleblowers get arrested, those should be illegal.

02:37:01.000 Those are immoral.

02:37:02.000 They're letting people know what goes into your food.

02:37:05.000 And those people are being punished for that? 1.00

02:37:07.000 All that shit is... 1.00

02:37:08.000 And they're being punished because it hurts business? 1.00

02:37:11.000 Yes. 0.99

02:37:11.000 Well, it should fucking hurt business. 0.99

02:37:34.000 Yes. 0.99

02:37:36.000 And he eats them.

02:37:37.000 And he even gives them out to people.

02:37:39.000 He has butchers that take care of it.

02:37:41.000 These sheep are treated like they're loved.

02:37:44.000 They're not scared of people.

02:37:46.000 And then literally, they get walked into this room.

02:37:49.000 They have no idea what's going to happen.

02:37:50.000 A bolt gets put on the top of their head. 0.94

02:37:52.000 Bang! 1.00

02:37:52.000 And the lights go out. 1.00

02:37:54.000 Now you could say, that should never happen.

02:37:56.000 And those sheep should just live forever.

02:37:58.000 Okay.

02:37:59.000 I could understand that argument.

02:38:01.000 Or you could say, boy...

02:38:03.000 If you're going to eat meat, and you're going to eat the meat of an animal that you know how it lived, and there was no horrific moments in its life, it's just one day the lights went out.

02:38:12.000 That seems like the best, most ethical way to do it.

02:38:15.000 Maybe even perhaps more ethical than hunting.

02:38:17.000 Yes.

02:38:18.000 Because when I'm hunting an animal, it's out there in this crazy state where it's always looking to get eaten.

02:38:26.000 These sheep have no idea they can be eaten.

02:38:28.000 They think that everybody's their buddy, and then one day they die.

02:38:31.000 Yeah.

02:38:32.000 Yeah, man, I agree with that.

02:38:35.000 It's difficult to bring ethics to that.

02:38:38.000 That's clearly, in my view, a matter of opinion.

02:38:41.000 Some people think that's okay.

02:38:43.000 But someone could turn around on me and say, you could do that same thought experience with people.

02:38:48.000 Like, why don't you just eat people?

02:38:50.000 Like, hey, the person who lived a perfect life, you put a bolt on the top of their head and bang, shut the lights out, and then they turn into barbecue.

02:38:56.000 Look, yeah, that's a very pronounced and vivid way, but I would say that in a sense we're being commodified, imprisoned, enclosed.

02:39:03.000 The very fact that a law has been made to prevent people regulating or revealing the truth around that shows where the true bias of this system is.

02:39:13.000 In a way, I think that one of the cultural jobs this podcast has performed, and this is whether deliberately or not, Is it demonstrates that the old political lines that we used to comfortably abide within are starting to sort of break down.

02:39:30.000 Because, you know, like something, like an obvious signifier of a particular type of person, i.e.

02:39:36.000 I go hunting, now we have to accept is coupled with your view that the agricultural industry needs to be regulated and it's disgusting.

02:39:45.000 Now, there we have complete and total agreement, and we both can see that the way that legislation is set up is biased towards corporate interests, commercial interests, and profit.

02:39:57.000 And so for me, bloody, whether Chris Pratt having his own sheep, I think, yeah, no problem, man.

02:40:03.000 I don't need to spend my time worrying about that.

02:40:05.000 I'm a little bit like Alex Jones, like with the...

02:40:07.000 Why are we worrying about Flat Earth if they've got them babies and all of that stuff? 1.00

02:40:12.000 Why don't we focus on the things that are making a genuine difference to the way people are living lives?

02:40:18.000 And it seems to me that one of the priorities is in a new global landscape that we're living with, what are the dominant forces and what are the goals of the dominant forces and how detached are those goals from the lives of What you might say are ordinary people,

02:40:34.000 or the majority of people, to use a less complex term.

02:40:37.000 And what's probably most horrific about reforming the system is that the people that are going to suffer the most are the people that are the poorest.

02:40:44.000 So if you think of fast food in particular, there's a lot of really poor people that rely on fast food because it's very inexpensive.

02:40:52.000 If you go and you can get a lot of calories for a small amount of money, But if you go from the fast food restaurant and then you go down the line to factory farming, and then somehow or another they eliminate factory farming, and they say, no,

02:41:07.000 no, no, if you're going to raise animals, you have to have the same sort of standards that we would expect if we knew you, if we were there, we want pastures, we want animals living in the wild, I mean, you know, fenced in, but like living like an actual animal. 0.95

02:41:21.000 Not this crazy warehouse bullshit you guys are running. 0.86

02:41:24.000 Well, that's going to up our operation costs. 0.99

02:41:25.000 Well, then that's how it's going to be.

02:41:27.000 So then the beef becomes far more expensive.

02:41:29.000 Now, if the beef becomes far more expensive, then what a fast food, what do the restaurants do?

02:41:35.000 Well, they're going to have to make things more expensive, too.

02:41:37.000 So who's going to suffer?

02:41:38.000 The poor people.

02:41:38.000 Who's going to suffer with cheap meat in supermarkets?

02:41:41.000 Poor people that can't afford it.

02:41:43.000 No, but I think what happens, Joe, is you have started to pull a thread that reveals how the fabric of our culture is corrupted, because it shouldn't be more expensive.

02:41:52.000 The only reason it's more expensive is because everything is put into a capital-based ideology.

02:41:57.000 We're already, I've heard many times on this show, you're discussing universal basic income.

02:42:02.000 This is at the beginning of looking at alternative economic models.

02:42:06.000 And there's an argument for saying everyone has the right to a nutritious diet.

02:42:11.000 Everyone has the right to a safe home.

02:42:14.000 If we start prioritising those ideas above these organisations have the right to maximise profit, then maximising profit, that's getting taken off the table, and then comes your counter-argument about innovation.

02:42:26.000 Well, I would say, if innovation slows, no problem, because we've decided as a culture to prioritise housing and nutrition for the majority of people.

02:42:36.000 Now, you can say that's kind of socialism, and I don't think that that can work on a continental scale.

02:42:44.000 I think we have to break down centralised systems, whether those are corporate centralised systems or national.

02:42:51.000 I feel that the time has gone where there's too much diversity.

02:42:56.000 There probably always was diversity.

02:42:58.000 People are different.

02:42:59.000 We're influenced by our cultures, our schools, our education, our class, our races, all these factors.

02:43:03.000 And then to expect us all to live in this sort of single bandwidth of this is what America is or this is what France is or this is what England is, people are too different now.

02:43:11.000 But what it does, it seems like the standards we're adhering to, unconsciously or otherwise, is these groups have the right to make as much money as they can and to interfere with that is It's un-American, or un-British, or whatever it was, because, you know, it's beyond national ideas, I'm sure.

02:43:27.000 So, you know, for me, you pull that thread, oh, it's the poor that will suffer.

02:43:31.000 Well then, no, we have to rule out the poor suffer.

02:43:34.000 So what happens?

02:43:35.000 In the end, you start to get into redistribution of resources, managing and regulating the power of the most powerful people.

02:43:43.000 And whenever that conversation starts, it gets shut down, because they want to conserve.

02:43:48.000 Even in a capitalist system, wouldn't it be more ethical if everybody started from the same starting block?

02:43:53.000 Well, that's what's wrong with the world, right?

02:43:55.000 What's wrong with the world is some people, they have a terrible hand of cards they've been dealt.

02:44:00.000 And my point about food is that the people that are going to suffer the most are the people that rely on the cheap food.

02:44:08.000 Yes, your point is valid.

02:44:11.000 Then, a lot of those supermarkets and a lot of those fast food stores that rely on that factory farm food, they're going to be in a bad situation.

02:44:22.000 Things are going to be much more expensive.

02:44:24.000 And if things are much more...

02:44:25.000 I mean, if they make animals live like...

02:44:28.000 What is that guy's name?

02:44:30.000 Polyface Farms.

02:44:31.000 Joel Salatin.

02:44:34.000 Yeah.

02:44:34.000 He's a fascinating cat.

02:44:36.000 I had him on my podcast before.

02:44:38.000 He's sort of a farm reformist.

02:44:39.000 And what he believes is that these animals should live just like animals.

02:44:43.000 When he has pigs, he puts them in a fenced area, but he moves the fenced area every day.

02:44:49.000 So like the pigs move to a different spot.

02:44:52.000 And so they're just constantly foraging and eating acorns.

02:44:55.000 But they're... 0.99

02:44:58.000 They're living like a pig. 0.99

02:45:00.000 They're not living in some crazy warehouse. 0.97

02:45:03.000 He does the same with his chickens.

02:45:05.000 He has this mobile chicken coop and he moves it from pasture to pasture and this is how he operates his entire farm.

02:45:11.000 Yes, it seems, again, a point that we've talked about earlier, that we ought to...

02:45:17.000 No one knows what's right, so perhaps what we could try and do is replicate what we do naturally.

02:45:24.000 So there is an argument that naturally we do hunt.

02:45:27.000 There is an argument that naturally we do eat meat.

02:45:29.000 We naturally grow food too, though.

02:45:31.000 Right.

02:45:32.000 There's an argument, like getting into organic gardening.

02:45:35.000 If you have your own garden, man, that is one of the most karma-free things ever. 0.98

02:45:39.000 If you can figure out a way to have your own compost, your own garden, and you don't ever have to rely on anybody else for your food, well then you're not participating in that shit at all. 0.58

02:45:48.000 Do you think that the spirit of entrepreneurship could be... 0.96

02:45:52.000 Sure.

02:45:53.000 Sure.

02:46:11.000 We're good to go.

02:46:13.000 We're good to go.

02:46:41.000 And then when you sort of scale that up to a society, how can we start to recognise, look, is this time to look at different systems for living?

02:46:52.000 And what I feel is people want to be involved in the power systems that affect them.

02:46:57.000 So if you have a group of 100 people, they want to be able to run their own schools, run their own care systems, be in charge of their own lives, not just be some...

02:47:08.000 We're good to go.

02:47:12.000 We're good to go.

02:47:28.000 You're the guy that makes the pedals. 1.00

02:47:30.000 Now, fuck off, home. 1.00

02:47:32.000 I've listened to enough Jordan Peterson to understand that there are limitations to what socialism and Marxism can achieve. 1.00

02:47:39.000 But just because capitalism is better than feudalism, that doesn't mean that's the end of the conversation, that we shouldn't be looking for fairer, better, more just ways of living.

02:47:50.000 Yeah, I don't know if capitalism is the problem, but maybe it's how people engage with capitalism.

02:47:56.000 Maybe it's what people choose to focus on.

02:47:59.000 If you're just about acquiring wealth and money, some people are, yeah, they're going to be very deeply unhappy, and it's going to be this weird game of acquiring influence and power until you just have this insurmountable mound of money that you live on top of, right?

02:48:14.000 I don't think that's a good way for them either.

02:48:16.000 I think if we're going to really...

02:48:19.000 We're going to look at this country fairly.

02:48:22.000 We have to look at...

02:48:23.000 Think of all the poor neighborhoods.

02:48:24.000 And imagine being born in those poor neighborhoods.

02:48:27.000 And imagine being born in a place where there's no resources.

02:48:30.000 There's no... 1.00

02:48:31.000 You live in the fucking mountains of West Virginia. 1.00

02:48:34.000 Those coal mining communities. 1.00

02:48:36.000 People are...

02:48:37.000 It's all just...

02:48:38.000 Mobile homes and pills and it's chaos and just extreme poverty.

02:48:42.000 What do you do if you're stuck in there?

02:48:44.000 What if you're born into that clan?

02:48:46.000 That's the group you're born into. 1.00

02:48:47.000 You're fucked, man. 1.00

02:48:48.000 You're fucked. 1.00

02:48:49.000 We have to take our resources and concentrate on parts of America the same way we concentrate on many other problem spots in the world and look at them as like, hey man, there's a spot where people are fucked. 1.00

02:49:02.000 We should unfuck them. 0.98

02:49:04.000 We should figure out a way to go into every single horrible community in this country, on this planet. 0.77

02:49:11.000 Ones that are just as bad as some that you see in third world countries. 1.00

02:49:14.000 They exist right here in America.

02:49:15.000 Fix that.

02:49:16.000 Don't ignore that.

02:49:18.000 That's crazy. 1.00

02:49:19.000 If they're in Detroit, if they're in wherever the fuck they are. 1.00

02:49:22.000 Whatever the horrible community is. 0.99

02:49:24.000 Why isn't there a concerted national effort to eliminate that?

02:49:28.000 That's a major source of crime. 0.89

02:49:30.000 It's a major source of problem. 0.79

02:49:31.000 People feel like they got fucked over in life so they want to get at you and take from you because you got that easy road. 1.00

02:49:38.000 Hey man, you're born in the fucking suburbs. 1.00

02:49:40.000 Hey man, your mom and dad are still together. 1.00

02:49:42.000 Hey man, your dad has a job and your mom's at home baking and shit. 1.00

02:49:45.000 You live like a motherfucking Norman Rockwell movie. 1.00

02:49:48.000 Fuck you, man. 1.00

02:49:48.000 My mom's on crack. 1.00

02:49:49.000 My mom's a prostitute. 1.00

02:49:51.000 My life is hell. 1.00

02:49:52.000 My dad beats me. 0.93

02:49:53.000 I've been sexually molested since I was a little kid.

02:49:55.000 This is the reality that people exist, and they don't feel like anybody's coming to help them.

02:49:59.000 We need to concentrate on that.

02:50:01.000 If the government really cares about us, if they're really involved in social engineering and making America better again, Make those places better.

02:50:09.000 Those are the places you need to concentrate on. 0.84

02:50:11.000 Not tax breaks for fucking super rich corporations that get you in place. 0.98

02:50:15.000 They make enough money, man. 0.99

02:50:17.000 That's not the problem.

02:50:18.000 Where the money goes, what's it being allocated towards?

02:50:21.000 The biggest problem in our country is these impossible to escape communities. 0.64

02:50:26.000 Yes.

02:50:27.000 That so many people just get sucked into this trap.

02:50:29.000 And for every person that gets out and becomes a basketball player or a successful business person and they have this story about the poverty that they grew up in, they are so rare.

02:50:39.000 Yes.

02:50:40.000 And then it's not to be applauded that they got through that.

02:50:43.000 It is. 0.95

02:50:44.000 But it's more to be, we should understand, like, hey, we've got a real fucking problem that we're churning out all these people that live, they start out in life with a massive deficit. 0.95

02:50:53.000 Right. 0.99

02:50:53.000 Start out in life emotionally fucked, physically abused. 0.99

02:50:56.000 They start out with everybody around them's a loser. 1.00

02:50:59.000 Everybody's going to jail. 0.95

02:51:00.000 Everybody's constantly doing pills or this or that.

02:51:03.000 It's all negative.

02:51:05.000 And to ask them to develop their own positive mindset uniquely in a vacuum is preposterous.

02:51:11.000 So always pull them up by your bootstraps. 1.00

02:51:14.000 All those assholes. 1.00

02:51:15.000 Hey, you gotta pull yourself up by your bootstraps. 1.00

02:51:17.000 They don't even have boots, man.

02:51:18.000 You don't understand.

02:51:20.000 You don't know what you're talking about.

02:51:21.000 You've never seen it.

02:51:22.000 You've never been involved in that kind of poverty.

02:51:23.000 It's not fair.

02:51:25.000 It's not fair at all. 0.95

02:51:26.000 If we care about people, that's what we should fucking care about. 0.96

02:51:29.000 Yes, I couldn't agree more. 0.98

02:51:30.000 The number one problem.

02:51:31.000 And it's everywhere in the world.

02:51:33.000 All the crime and poverty.

02:51:35.000 Imagine if everyone, the lowest you could live is like a middle class existence. 0.79

02:51:40.000 Yes. 0.90

02:51:41.000 Boy, everybody would be a lot more fucking relaxed. 0.98

02:51:44.000 Immediately. 0.90

02:51:45.000 If you always had meals, you always had food, you always had a roof over your head.

02:51:49.000 Everyone lives middle class. 0.99

02:51:51.000 Holy shit. 0.99

02:51:51.000 I mean, obviously, that's way past the expectations that we have right now for the world, because like $34,000 a year globally puts you in the world 1%. 0.99

02:52:01.000 You know, I mean, if you make $34,000 a year, which is hard to live on, man, you're in the 1% of the world. 0.56

02:52:08.000 But that standard that you've so very eloquently described is, I think, achievable, and that ought be the aim.

02:52:17.000 And when you give just one example of how the bias of legislation is continually to support the powerful while just making nominal gestures Yes.

02:52:29.000 Good way of putting it.

02:52:31.000 Phenomenal gestures.

02:52:31.000 I like how you put that.

02:52:32.000 Yeah.

02:52:35.000 If there is a point to nation, if there is a point to a flag and our belief and this idea that there is an America and there is a Britain and we're all together and we're all one and we've got a common destiny and a common past, Then if we're ignoring and neglecting those communities, then I say that is what defines us.

02:52:52.000 Until there are systems, codes, regulations that prioritize that, we will continue to live in something heading toward, if not a dystopia, something moving in the direction of dystopia, where the priorities and dreams are sort of owned,

02:53:08.000 really, by the kind of mad, evil insect robot images that we've seen discussed.

02:53:14.000 People do get very concerned when someone reaches a point of excessive power and influence, like a Jeff Bezos type character.

02:53:21.000 When you see some guy who's not, he doesn't have a million dollars.

02:53:25.000 Like, wow, a guy's got a million dollars.

02:53:27.000 He must be so relaxed.

02:53:28.000 He's got so much money.

02:53:30.000 No, he's got $150 billion, and he works every day, maniacally.

02:53:35.000 And he's constantly doing new projects and new things and buying out Whole Foods and That's like pinnacle capitalism is one of the things that scares people the most when someone just acquires this insane position of power and wealth.

02:53:49.000 Like a Bill Gates type character who is very altruistic, very, very generous.

02:53:55.000 Bill Gates is one of the better examples of someone who gains a lot of money and then does a lot to help people.

02:54:01.000 Especially in his retirement, all they do is focus on charitable organizations.

02:54:06.000 Yeah, which is brilliant, and marvellous, and I'm not criticising the great achievements of brilliant people, but really for me that demonstrates that the limitations come from the type of systems we live in.

02:54:18.000 That you can't, through charity, affect every impoverished community in America.

02:54:24.000 The systems that we have are, well, if you're poor like that, the bootstrap model, well, this guy did it.

02:54:29.000 Look at this great guy who overcame the odds.

02:54:32.000 I feel like, in a sense, charity has become a kind of valve that allows people like you and I, who aren't poor, to feel like, well, I do a bit.

02:54:42.000 I'm sort of involved.

02:54:43.000 I can wash my hands of it.

02:54:46.000 Unless we...

02:54:49.000 There is no America, there is no England, unless we have integral relationships with one another where we support one another.

02:54:55.000 We're on a team. 0.96

02:54:56.000 If we really are on a team and we see someone who's completely downtrodden, who's on our team, and we ignore them, well, that's not much of a fucking team, is it? 0.97

02:55:03.000 No. 0.92

02:55:04.000 I mean, that's what I feel like when I come to red lights and I see homeless people.

02:55:07.000 I feel terrible.

02:55:08.000 I'm like, I feel like, you know, I mean, there's part of you who's like, don't give them any money because you know they're going to just buy drugs.

02:55:14.000 You know, let them figure it out.

02:55:16.000 But then they're not going to figure it out.

02:55:17.000 They have mental health issues, and they're stuck out here, and they're supposedly on the team. 0.99

02:55:21.000 They probably were born in America, they probably have national citizenship here, you know, this is our team, and no one gives a fuck that they're camped out under the bridge. 0.97

02:55:30.000 It's like, the diffusion of responsibility that comes with these massive numbers, 20 million in LA, 300 and plus, whatever it is now, what is it like, 320 in America? 0.93

02:55:40.000 Yeah, it's unbelievable.

02:55:41.000 I think there's 90,000 in the general California, like a city's worth of homeless people.

02:55:47.000 Isn't it?

02:55:47.000 It's not difficult for me to envisage, like when we talk about the transcendent states that can be achieved through meditation and psychedelics, meaning that beings like us can access them.

02:55:57.000 It's not difficult to envisage a type of creature, a type of being, a little more evolved than us, that would look back and say, oh my God, they allowed homelessness.

02:56:14.000 Yeah. 0.93

02:56:31.000 You know, here we have an obligation to aspire to the better parts of our nature, not to continually use materialism and rationalism to justify that 20% of the population, you know, or whatever percentage it is, are just garbage, are just waste, and that's affordable. 0.86

02:56:46.000 Live with that.

02:56:47.000 For me, once we have the knowledge that, oh yeah, we shouldn't be farming in that way, oh, we shouldn't have social systems, the answer's always the same, because if you were to change in that area, it will affect the interests of the powerful.

02:56:59.000 It will impede the ability of certain organisations to make profit.

02:57:02.000 Now, I'm not talking about...

02:57:04.000 I don't know the lexicon enough around socialism and capitalism and Marxism and various forms of social organisation.

02:57:11.000 I'm just talking about my assumption that we're all resourced from the same basic material and phenomena.

02:57:17.000 We all have compassion and love in us, and if we, on an individual level, can achieve some level of access to that, then we can start to organise ourselves on that basis, not on the basis of, well, what's the most I can get as an individual?

02:57:28.000 It's rational for me to...

02:57:30.000 I'm not involved in that.

02:57:31.000 That doesn't affect me personally.

02:57:33.000 You know, and I think it's a hard thing for us to hold.

02:57:35.000 I think the reason we all do just live with homelessness and the only decision we make is do we put a couple of dollars out the window at the light or not, then, like, it's hard to hold that.

02:57:45.000 It's hard to love more than 100 people.

02:57:47.000 There's no fix.

02:57:49.000 Not as an individual.

02:57:51.000 Not one person and even collectively as a group when you have mental health issues.

02:57:56.000 Unless you want to institutionalize those people, yeah, but then here's the thing, right?

02:58:02.000 If everyone has a unique...

02:58:05.000 And if everyone has their own ideas about what to do with their life and everyone has freedom, what if you just don't have enough people that are interested in mental health of the homeless people?

02:58:14.000 You just don't have enough.

02:58:15.000 There's no resources guaranteed.

02:58:17.000 Resources, yeah, that's a big question because our systems are biased in a particular direction.

02:58:21.000 What if there's money?

02:58:21.000 What if they have government funding?

02:58:23.000 Do you think that they could...

02:58:24.000 Cure homelessness?

02:58:25.000 One of the advantages I've got of being a drug addict is it means I have to help other drug addicts as part of my own recovery. 0.99

02:58:31.000 This puts me into areas, institutions, groups, facilities where I'm meeting drug addicts and always what you'll find, the people that work there, there's always someone, like a man or a woman, most often in my personal experience is a woman, some matriarchal woman full of mother energy that just will do this shit forever forever.

02:58:46.000 For free, for nothing, that just loves it, that's just put herself like my grandmother did, or my mother did, or like these women do, between people and the gutter, that are just willing to say, I'll be the person, I'll be the person.

02:58:57.000 In LA at Friendly House, it was a woman called Peggy Albrecht that used to run a play, Friendly House, it was for women that have got drug and addiction and abuse issues. 0.99

02:59:04.000 And like this woman, she was from Chicago, she was 90 years old by the time I met her.

02:59:10.000 She was so rude.

02:59:23.000 I think that when you spot those people, that you encourage them.

02:59:26.000 Yeah, they're talented at helping people.

02:59:28.000 Yeah, the talent of compassion.

02:59:30.000 But we don't value that. 1.00

02:59:32.000 Unless it can be turned to a profit, fuck off. 1.00

02:59:34.000 All of those organisations that help people with addiction issues, they are maligned. 1.00

02:59:41.000 And the people that profit from the opioid crisis, they are supported.

02:59:45.000 They are able to conceal, as John Oliver brilliantly revealed.

02:59:48.000 They're able to conceal their practices.

02:59:50.000 Continually, the invisible bias is in the direction of profit.

02:59:54.000 And the failure of...

02:59:56.000 Certain types of socialism doesn't mean that's the end of the argument.

02:59:59.000 I think we have an obligation to look for ways of accessing our own higher nature, better nature, kinder nature, call it what you will, and seeing how we can organise that.

03:00:09.000 As an individual, you couldn't do so much.

03:00:11.000 I mean, if Bill Gates can, you know, fucking hell, I don't know, cure malaria and make significant charitable, you know, these impressive, powerful people can't make a meaningful difference, then clearly this is a systemic problem. 0.87

03:00:22.000 Well, there's also the problem with homeless people in that they're adults. 0.97

03:00:26.000 When you become an adult and you develop from the time you're a child, it's probably very likely that the damage was all done while they were young.

03:00:33.000 They were probably abused and neglected, and there's a lot of issues that led them to either Have mental health problems or they had mental health problems already.

03:00:42.000 Maybe they have genetic problems.

03:00:43.000 Then on top of that, there's drug abuse.

03:00:45.000 For each one of those people to get well, you're going to need a massive amount of folks.

03:00:51.000 You're not going to have one old lady who's rude, who's fun and brilliant. 1.00

03:00:54.000 That's a cute movie.

03:00:56.000 No, but that's 20 people.

03:00:57.000 Yeah, it's a good movie.

03:00:59.000 Write that down.

03:00:59.000 Write it down.

03:01:00.000 I could be rich!

03:01:01.000 Yeah, who would be the woman? 1.00

03:01:03.000 Who's your player? 0.99

03:01:04.000 Faye Dunway or some shit? 1.00

03:01:05.000 I would have liked the one that was out of Golden Girls, Estelle Getty. 0.96

03:01:09.000 Is she still available?

03:01:10.000 I don't think that's a wrap.

03:01:12.000 Betty White's still around.

03:01:13.000 Betty White's still hanging in there.

03:01:14.000 Yeah, but would you book a movie around her?

03:01:16.000 I don't know that this is going to work.

03:01:19.000 How are we going to fund this?

03:01:21.000 Yeah, it's...

03:01:22.000 No, you're right, there's limitations to the individual, but let's not, like, crash this optimism in the crib now, Joe, because I feel like if there was systemic change...

03:01:29.000 No, no, I'm not crashing the optimism, but I'm saying the logistics of it would almost be insurmountable, and it's very hard to...

03:01:35.000 But what we refer to logistics is not an objective thing.

03:01:37.000 It's a thing that's been biased over time.

03:01:40.000 Sort of.

03:01:40.000 Once a person is developed, once they're a human, it's very difficult to turn that train around.

03:01:45.000 If we can save the community and save the future, like help less people get through fucked, help more people get through with hope and with a real possibility for improving their life.

03:02:05.000 I agree.

03:02:24.000 If someone brilliantly calculated the amount of resources that it would require and then also brilliantly calculated how much less crime it would have, how many more innovations because people didn't waste their lives.

03:02:37.000 In fact, they got through life and used one of the most valuable resources we have, which is the human imagination and creativity and ingenuity.

03:02:45.000 And we're missing that on these people that are growing up in these horrible environments where they can't escape. 1.00

03:02:51.000 They're so fucked. 1.00

03:02:52.000 They're in gangs. 1.00

03:02:54.000 The crime and poverty and violence. 1.00

03:02:56.000 They're so fucked that whatever genius they have is wasted on this nonsensical existence. 0.98

03:03:02.000 If they could just show that and quantify how much that would be, how valuable that would be to the overall culture and community of the continent and ultimately of the earth, you would have a reason to engineer and think about that. 0.99

03:03:16.000 Yeah, it's a beautiful, that is really beautiful, and it's interesting that the way that I agree with you, that it almost has to at some point be translated into monetary value, because otherwise people don't seem to read it.

03:03:29.000 Yeah, and safety for everybody.

03:03:30.000 For them who live in these horrible communities, wouldn't it be great, again, if everybody lived like a middle class person? 1.00

03:03:36.000 The idea that that's impossible seems so insane.

03:03:40.000 It almost seems like, well, then nobody should live like that then.

03:03:42.000 Either everybody should be able to live like that or nobody should be able to live like that.

03:03:45.000 That's what everybody really wants.

03:03:48.000 You want to be comfortable in terms of your ability to exist.

03:03:52.000 And then all the things you're doing that you struggle with should be a good percentage of them, other than emotional and friendship type things, should be of your own choosing.

03:04:02.000 You choose to take a difficult path.

03:04:05.000 You choose to take an adventure.

03:04:07.000 You choose to try to enrich yourself with this difficult experience and the challenge of it and try to overcome that challenge.

03:04:14.000 Your challenge is not to get killed by a gang. 0.99

03:04:18.000 You know, your challenge is not get fucked by your uncle again. 1.00

03:04:21.000 You know what I mean? 0.99

03:04:22.000 I mean, this is what people have to deal with. 0.97

03:04:23.000 And you're missing these brilliant minds that don't get this chance to come through and sneak through that fucking salmon ladder, you know? 0.97

03:04:32.000 Get up to the top! 0.91

03:04:34.000 It's very beautiful that you're passionate about this and I think popularizing these ideas is important because I feel that then people will be familiar with this kind of language and will recognize that when there is political discourse how phatic and empty it is that people will say you know like I think in the last election in your country it was It's clear that there was...

03:05:00.000 No one is saying that.

03:05:03.000 No one is standing on a political platform of...

03:05:05.000 Do you know what?

03:05:05.000 Everyone should basically be able to live a middle-class lifestyle.

03:05:08.000 There's no reason.

03:05:09.000 There's enough resources.

03:05:10.000 We can do this.

03:05:11.000 We could organise society on that basis because that's considered...

03:05:14.000 It's outlandish and crazy.

03:05:17.000 There's so much I can, again, with your imaginary listener that would consider this pontification, there's so much anger.

03:05:26.000 I feel that a lot of political events that have occurred in the last five years are the manifestation of Of a social rage.

03:05:32.000 Of people that are pissed off with not being heard.

03:05:35.000 Are pissed off with a cultural conversation that didn't include them.

03:05:39.000 And that they feel angry.

03:05:41.000 I don't want to help other people. 1.00

03:05:42.000 Fuck those people. 1.00

03:05:43.000 That resource is becoming nurtured and grown. 1.00

03:05:48.000 And I feel people would feel tremendous relief.

03:05:51.000 To let go of that.

03:05:52.000 To feel like, listen, it's alright for you to be you, but could we be a little more aspirational?

03:05:58.000 And consider what our goals are.

03:06:01.000 Consider what progress looks like to us.

03:06:04.000 Is progress the terrifying robots?

03:06:06.000 Or is progress considering elevating the lowest among us to raise the standards?

03:06:12.000 If people could just understand that this is not forever.

03:06:15.000 There is no such thing as forever.

03:06:17.000 This is a temporary thing.

03:06:19.000 You've got to try to eek as much good out of this as you can.

03:06:23.000 And to go against my point, there's a real problem with people being lazy.

03:06:27.000 People are lazy.

03:06:28.000 There's not an equality of effort.

03:06:30.000 The idea of equality of outcome, like people want income equality.

03:06:35.000 Well, there's no effort equality.

03:06:37.000 That's just a fact.

03:06:38.000 There's people out there that are just, they work harder, they're smarter, they're more focused, they're less distracted, they're more dedicated, they have a better plan.

03:06:46.000 They've thought it through better, and they become more successful. 1.00

03:06:48.000 And the idea that they become more successful than you, because somehow or another there's some nefarious actions afoot, well that negates another possibility, which is you're a lazy cunt. 1.00

03:06:59.000 That's a possibility. 0.99

03:07:00.000 Yes, and what do we do about those people?

03:07:02.000 I tell you this, I've got a plan for the lazy.

03:07:04.000 What do we do?

03:07:04.000 Lazy island?

03:07:06.000 You're all kind of lazy.

03:07:07.000 It's a bit like Pinocchio's Donkey Land.

03:07:09.000 No arcade games, though.

03:07:10.000 They're too lazy.

03:07:11.000 I feel like...

03:07:12.000 Well, I consider this.

03:07:14.000 That people that don't have a lot of life force...

03:07:17.000 Like... 1.00

03:07:19.000 I feel like it's a gift to be a person that's got a lot of drive, to be a person that's like, I'm fucking going to achieve this shit. 0.99

03:07:24.000 Some people are a little lethargic and don't have a lot of energy. 0.99

03:07:28.000 I feel that's a kind of despondency.

03:07:29.000 We could break that down in a thousand different ways.

03:07:31.000 Is it poor diet?

03:07:32.000 Is it poor role models?

03:07:34.000 Is it poor social conditioning?

03:07:35.000 Who are these lazy people? 0.98

03:07:36.000 Weak genes. 0.97

03:07:37.000 Could be weak genes too.

03:07:38.000 Could be even weak genes.

03:07:39.000 So then we're in the territory of disability.

03:07:41.000 So however you look at it, I think you end up at a point of compassion.

03:07:45.000 I think we should start at the point of compassion.

03:07:48.000 Because what is tolerance if it isn't the tolerance of people that we sort of can't understand?

03:07:55.000 As long as they carry their own weight, we usually don't have a problem with it.

03:07:59.000 But when they're so lazy, they just juke the system and screw people over and figure their way to scam through life.

03:08:07.000 Yeah, but I think those people don't exist only at the bottom of the social ladder.

03:08:11.000 I think they exist at the top, and the effect there is worse.

03:08:14.000 Are you talking about the President of the United States? 1.00

03:08:16.000 This is my country, motherfucker. 1.00

03:08:18.000 You better be a little bit more polite. 1.00

03:08:20.000 I actually met your president, and I found him to be delightful.

03:08:23.000 Really?

03:08:24.000 Yeah, that's very sweet.

03:08:25.000 Again, like I say, I don't judge people.

03:08:27.000 I interviewed him about five years ago.

03:08:29.000 Before he was Yeah, before he was the president.

03:08:31.000 He was okay about that.

03:08:32.000 Let me near him.

03:08:33.000 He's president, isn't he?

03:08:34.000 I wouldn't be able to get over the fence, let alone the wall.

03:08:38.000 He was sort of sweet, but I remember thinking, what I felt was, why you don't have no intellectual curiosity.

03:08:46.000 That's what I felt.

03:08:47.000 Well, that's what I felt.

03:08:47.000 I felt like I sort of liked him.

03:08:49.000 He was nice.

03:08:50.000 And his staff at that big tower, they all loved him.

03:08:52.000 Well, maybe think about it this way.

03:08:55.000 And I don't think he's been very genuine with that make America great again.

03:08:58.000 Do you?

03:08:59.000 Where's that everyone should be middle class? 0.51

03:09:00.000 We're going to start reorganizing society, reaching out into Detroit and into crushed mining towns in West Virginia. 0.76

03:09:05.000 Where's that?

03:09:06.000 Otherwise, you ain't making America great again.

03:09:08.000 That's true.

03:09:09.000 But think about how we were talking about Dave Chappelle, about one of the reasons why he's so great, other than the fact that he's smart and just talented and all these good things, is that he knows what he does and he does it.

03:09:20.000 That's his wheelhouse.

03:09:22.000 He stays in there.

03:09:23.000 Trump's wheelhouse is making giant gold buildings with his name on them.

03:09:27.000 And spray tan. 0.97

03:09:28.000 He knows what the fuck to do, and he knows how to make money. 0.99

03:09:31.000 And he doesn't give a fuck about all that other stuff, because that other stuff is wasted energy for him. 0.99

03:09:36.000 His energy is in focusing on how you get more buildings with those giant gold Trump letters on it. 0.98

03:09:42.000 And no one can argue that it's been a tremendous success.

03:09:44.000 I once stayed in one of those hotels, the water bottle had his face on it.

03:09:48.000 You know what I mean?

03:09:48.000 Amazing.

03:09:49.000 Incredible, isn't he?

03:09:50.000 What an achievement!

03:09:52.000 Drinking inside of his face.

03:09:54.000 But that's his thing, right?

03:09:56.000 It's like, why is it okay for your thing to be tennis?

03:09:59.000 And that's all you know about.

03:10:00.000 I don't even pay attention to the politics.

03:10:02.000 Why is that okay?

03:10:03.000 But when we see a guy like him, we have a problem with it because his intellectual curiosity is only about money, so it's even grosser.

03:10:10.000 I agree.

03:10:11.000 Listen, to return to my point, I wouldn't waste time judging anyone as an individual, because I imagine if I were to spend time examining Donald Trump's past, his relationship with his father, the conditions he grew up in, what he felt he had to do to be a good person,

03:10:27.000 I would imagine I'd go, yeah, of course.

03:10:29.000 But what I would query is a system that elevates people like that.

03:10:35.000 He exploits it.

03:10:37.000 And, you know, again, I believe that it's systems that need to change, not individuals.

03:10:41.000 And I think we've overly fetishised politics.

03:10:44.000 I don't live in this country, so I don't know if it's much worse under Trump.

03:10:46.000 I've heard some things that sound really bad than it was under Barack Obama.

03:10:50.000 But my general belief is don't fetishise individuals and get distracted.

03:10:55.000 Think about changing the system, because you're not getting that middle-class lifestyle for everyone.

03:11:00.000 No one's offering that.

03:11:02.000 Bernie Sanders isn't offering that.

03:11:03.000 No one's offering that.

03:11:04.000 And unless someone's offering that, why should we get involved?

03:11:07.000 Have you ever talked to economists about what is the problem?

03:11:11.000 People that are more socialistic-minded.

03:11:15.000 They'd be more socialist-minded, I guess.

03:11:18.000 But understanding of capitalism to the point where they could point out the flaws in allowing this infinite growth model where someone gets to a point like a Jeff Bezos or something like that.

03:11:27.000 What would they do to mitigate that?

03:11:28.000 You're not going to put a cap.

03:11:30.000 When people say that...

03:11:32.000 You're going to pay 70% in taxes over $10 million.

03:11:36.000 I was like one of the ones that was banded about.

03:11:38.000 People just start laughing. 1.00

03:11:39.000 Like, you're out of your fucking mind. 1.00

03:11:40.000 No one's going to do that. 1.00

03:11:40.000 They'll get to $10 million and then they'll stop. 1.00

03:11:43.000 Yeah. 1.00

03:11:43.000 Like, it's stupid. 1.00

03:11:45.000 That's, I think, a very limiting system. 1.00

03:11:48.000 And I feel that the problems are broader than that.

03:11:51.000 I think that the...

03:11:52.000 Like, did you ever see...

03:11:53.000 Like, you know, have you ever watched Steve Bannon talk?

03:11:55.000 That is a man.

03:11:55.000 Like, you know, someone I would, again, not politically...

03:11:58.000 I agree with for what it's worth.

03:12:00.000 But when his description of what happened in that economic crash of 2008 and the decisions that were made for the, you know, American taxpayer to bail out the financial industry, and I've subsequently seen a documentary that said, look, this is why we had to do that.

03:12:13.000 These were the options.

03:12:14.000 But, like, for me, that is a demonstration of capitalism's inherent failings and limitations, that we're not talking about a system that is flawless and perfect, it's pretty fucking flawed, aside from the human collateral damage that you have, again, described, the communities that are impoverished and without hope and living in poverty and a kind of slavery.

03:12:32.000 You know, it even in itself doesn't work according to its own rules.

03:12:36.000 It has to be artificially sustained and rebooted when it inevitably fails.

03:12:42.000 Well, the pure sign of it is the fact that no one went to jail for the subprime mortgage crisis.

03:12:47.000 Those guys didn't go to jail.

03:12:49.000 All those guys with the real financial analysts were looking at it from a distance.

03:12:52.000 They were going, I see where this is going.

03:12:54.000 Like, this is going to blow up and a lot of people are going to lose their houses. 1.00

03:12:56.000 Like, you guys are assholes. 1.00

03:12:58.000 And there was a lot of people that engaged in those predatory loans and they didn't get punished. 1.00

03:13:03.000 Those guys, the craziest thing is a lot of them got bonuses.

03:13:07.000 Yes, that's right.

03:13:08.000 They got bonuses even if the bank got bailed out and they said the bonuses were part of their contracts and if they didn't honor their contracts, they'd have a hard time hiring these people and there would be chaos.

03:13:18.000 They just made a reason why they had to give them millions of dollars in bonuses when they failed.

03:13:24.000 You get a bonus and you failed?

03:13:27.000 Your bank failed and you still get a bonus?

03:13:30.000 You knew about those predatory loans?

03:13:32.000 You knew about those? 0.98

03:13:33.000 You knew about the subprime mortgage bullshit that was going down in your business? 0.99

03:13:37.000 Yes. 0.99

03:13:38.000 And you just let it ride and now you're gonna get a bonus?

03:13:41.000 What's the bonus for?

03:13:43.000 Yeah, what would you have to do to be fined if that's the bonus system?

03:13:47.000 What would you have to do to be jailed?

03:13:49.000 Yeah.

03:13:49.000 I mean, just think about what they're doing to Julian Assange, right?

03:13:53.000 They're throwing that guy in a jail somewhere.

03:13:55.000 That didn't look good, that embassy move.

03:13:57.000 No, but I mean, the fact that what he did was release information that everybody found very interesting. 0.99

03:14:03.000 And what they did is crash the whole fucking economy. 0.99

03:14:07.000 Right. 0.98

03:14:07.000 It's pretty good that he was able to ride that embassy idea for as long as he, because it's not actually in another country, is it? 0.98

03:14:13.000 It's in London.

03:14:13.000 I know where it is.

03:14:14.000 I went and visited him in there, as a matter of fact, just briefly popped in, saw him.

03:14:18.000 What do you think's going to happen with him?

03:14:19.000 Well, I think he's going to end up serving a pretty lumpy prison sentence somewhere, isn't he?

03:14:24.000 What do you think they're going to get him on, though?

03:14:25.000 Like, what are they going to charge him on?

03:14:27.000 They're charging him on, like, hacking charges or some shit now, which they didn't charge him on before.

03:14:31.000 Right.

03:14:32.000 Is that what's emerged?

03:14:32.000 And he's going to be extradited to this country.

03:14:34.000 Is that true?

03:14:35.000 I don't know.

03:14:36.000 I don't know.

03:14:37.000 Well, I mean, again, I suppose this is what happens if you challenge the interests of the powerful.

03:14:42.000 If Trump really wanted to get people on his side, he'd pardon them.

03:14:46.000 Do you think that that would be popular?

03:14:48.000 Because someone like that Edward Snowden...

03:14:49.000 Obviously, I think, don't put the lives of people at risk that are in compromised military positions.

03:14:56.000 That seems like a fairly obvious thing.

03:14:58.000 I don't think they did that, though.

03:15:00.000 From what I understood was they got hacked and someone else released the documents without the names redacted.

03:15:06.000 Yeah, it seems to me that...

03:15:07.000 The WikiLeaks never did that.

03:15:08.000 Ed Snowden seems to qualify for a hero in pretty much any way you look at it.

03:15:13.000 He's a 26-year-old person making that decision.

03:15:15.000 And very brilliant.

03:15:16.000 I've heard him...

03:15:17.000 I think he was on Neil deGrasse Tyson's podcast.

03:15:20.000 They talked to him via Skype or however they did it, but... 0.98

03:15:24.000 Did you see in Citizen Four, there's a bit like in that film about Abel Snowden, Citizen Four, there's a bit where he's just come out and he's talking to the journalists or filmmakers that are making the film and he's going, they can fucking watch you with this phone! 0.89

03:15:33.000 You can't leave that. 0.97

03:15:34.000 He's like in this sort of state of mad enlightenment where he's just seen the truth of, they're listening to us now, you can't fucking have that on.

03:15:41.000 It's terrifying to watch someone because, you know, obviously now he's calmed down, he's dealt with it, he understands that, you know, but he was like a person that was emerging from having seen the other side of the Matrix.

03:15:49.000 Yeah.

03:15:49.000 Yeah, I mean, he was deep into it.

03:15:51.000 And then when he revealed all the information, they had a manhunt for him.

03:15:56.000 The guy had a hideout in Russia.

03:15:57.000 He had to seek asylum in our enemy.

03:16:00.000 The whole thing is so strange.

03:16:03.000 Yeah, so who do our power structures actually support?

03:16:05.000 If someone tells the truth to the population, they have to flee to Russia.

03:16:08.000 If someone talks about improper agricultural practices, that's against the law they can be imprisoned.

03:16:13.000 It starts to reveal that the state itself, the very thing that we revere, the very thing that we identify, is the tool of our oppression.

03:16:21.000 They want to discourage people from leaking information that makes them look horrible.

03:16:25.000 It's that simple.

03:16:26.000 It's that simple.

03:16:28.000 If you look at what information he leaked and what it did, well, you know... 0.99

03:16:35.000 What he did was revealed things that everyone wanted to know about that we felt were crimes It makes me feel that it's as simple as if you knew what we do in order to keep shit running You would revolt so we are never gonna let you know well that for me in a sense is a pass the stuffing will hold on fuck Well, 0.99

03:16:54.000 who are you? 0.99

03:16:55.000 I thought you were our elected officials.

03:16:57.000 You're one of us.

03:16:58.000 But no, you're above us to the point where if someone leaks information about your crimes, they get locked in this embassy for seven years?

03:17:06.000 Like, what is their crime exactly in comparison to the crimes that he's revealed?

03:17:10.000 Yes.

03:17:11.000 Like, that's where it's crazy.

03:17:13.000 When you look at the balance, the imbalance between what his crime is and the crimes that he's revealed, I mean, he's revealed some staggering crimes, and no one's concentrating on that.

03:17:26.000 The government is not freaking out.

03:17:27.000 Obviously, we have work to do.

03:17:30.000 We have corrections to make.

03:17:31.000 There's none of that talk.

03:17:33.000 There's get-that-guy talk.

03:17:34.000 Yeah, that's right.

03:17:35.000 Under the veil of patriotism, a lot can be concealed.

03:17:40.000 And that is an incident that passes through several administrations.

03:17:46.000 It's been there for seven years.

03:17:49.000 You think, well, what are the differences?

03:17:51.000 You know, like, I kind of, you know, sort of, I've been on Bill Maher's show.

03:17:55.000 I like Bill Maher.

03:17:56.000 I'm, you know, very sympathetic to left, you know, I'm ultimately beyond left left wing. 0.98

03:18:00.000 I'm, you know, trying to, my belief is that we should try and organise a system based on hallucinogenic experience, for fuck's sake. 0.99

03:18:06.000 There's no party for me, and I'm not even allowed the fucking hallucinogens. 0.99

03:18:09.000 So I'm not a right-wing person, it's safe to say. 0.95

03:18:14.000 But I feel that many of the problems that we're experiencing now is because the democratic, left-wing, liberal organisations stopped serving the people they were, in the case of the British Labour Party, designed, set up.

03:18:27.000 To surf.

03:18:27.000 They neglected them.

03:18:28.000 They abandoned them.

03:18:29.000 You know, the white working class in Britain were 50, 60 years ago told, hey, there's this thing called Britain.

03:18:35.000 We want you to go out there and fight and die for it.

03:18:37.000 Give up your sons. 0.99

03:18:38.000 Get out there.

03:18:39.000 Oh, and now they're told, hey, there's no such thing as Britain.

03:18:42.000 And like, yeah, no wonder people are confused.

03:18:45.000 No wonder people are baffled.

03:18:47.000 No wonder there are abandoned constituencies and despair and rage.

03:18:52.000 And I feel that in a way, it's like, what is patriotism resourced from?

03:18:57.000 A sense that we all need to belong, that we want to be together, that we're willing to believe in a fictional idea A flag and a story about, you know, the origin of a nation, whether that's an old one like mine or a new one like this one.

03:19:11.000 You know, we're willing to participate in that.

03:19:13.000 But if those values aren't real, if they aren't, like if it is, we are going to support the most powerful, we will lie to you whenever necessary.

03:19:20.000 When our lies are revealed, we'll imprison, punish and lie about those people.

03:19:24.000 We don't care about the most vulnerable. 0.99

03:19:26.000 What the fuck is the flag that we're waving? 0.98

03:19:28.000 Who is it for? 0.99

03:19:30.000 It's a good point. 0.99

03:19:31.000 And on that note, let's wrap this bitch up. 1.00

03:19:33.000 Good. 0.99

03:19:34.000 We went out high.

03:19:34.000 We went.

03:19:35.000 That was a good one.

03:19:36.000 It was a good way to end it.

03:19:37.000 Russell, you're awesome, man.

03:19:38.000 I love you.

03:19:39.000 Thanks, Joe.

03:19:39.000 I love you, mate.

03:19:40.000 I always appreciate you.

03:19:40.000 I always like being around you.

03:19:42.000 Yeah, me too.

03:19:42.000 And your book, Mentors, it's out now.

03:19:44.000 Your podcast will be available on Luminary starting...

03:19:49.000 23rd.

03:19:50.000 23rd of this month, so just a few days.

03:19:52.000 Ladies and gentlemen, that's the end of the show.

03:19:54.000 Bye-bye.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 20, 2019

Joe Rogan Experience #1283 - Russell Brand

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