The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1343 - Penn Jillette

00:00:00.000 Here we go.

00:00:02.000 Oh! 0.60

00:00:03.000 And we're live.

00:00:04.000 Hello, Ken.

00:00:04.000 Was that quick and that easy?

00:00:05.000 It's that easy, yeah.

00:00:06.000 We didn't say very much interesting before it started.

00:00:09.000 No, we were... 1.00

00:00:10.000 Just starting and then you just said, shut the fuck up! 1.00

00:00:13.000 I said, hold that thought, please. 0.99

00:00:14.000 This concept of things getting better.

00:00:17.000 We were talking about war, because there's a World War II helmet that...

00:00:22.000 Shane Against the Machine is the gentleman's name.

00:00:24.000 He's made me another sculpture, and he started making sculptures out of these World War II helmets with a lamp underneath it, and an actual real World War II bayonet as well.

00:00:35.000 And you were saying war is a terrible idea.

00:00:37.000 Yeah, and it's going away.

00:00:38.000 You think really?

00:00:39.000 Yeah.

00:00:40.000 Really fast.

00:00:41.000 And you mentioned Pinker.

00:00:42.000 Yeah.

00:00:43.000 And that's, you know, everything I will say is redundant to Pinker.

00:00:45.000 I mean that Better Angels of Our Nature is one of, I think, the most subversive books of our time.

00:00:52.000 You know, people are – there's such a – it's a fetish to suffer.

00:00:58.000 It's a fetish to say how bad things are.

00:01:00.000 People are getting really off on it.

00:01:02.000 And when you start saying, you know – After you say, one death by violence is too many, and we've got to clean up the environment, and da-da-da-da-da, you say all that stuff and it's all true, but you can also take a breath and say things are getting better.

00:01:17.000 Yeah, I think we need to recognize that.

00:01:19.000 And the problem is there is violence.

00:01:22.000 There is horrible things.

00:01:23.000 There are horrible things in the world.

00:01:25.000 They still exist.

00:01:26.000 And now they're magnified because of the fact that we have this ability to look at it on your phone anytime you want to.

00:01:31.000 Look at it on your computer anytime you want to.

00:01:33.000 You know, it's the same thing.

00:01:34.000 I think calories in information are identical.

00:01:37.000 You know, for millions, billion years, the biggest problem every living thing had was too few calories.

00:01:45.000 And then for, what, maybe 75 years, a very small percentage of the animals in the world had this problem of too many calories.

00:01:56.000 And there's nothing that prepares anybody for that.

00:02:02.000 In one issue of the New York Times, then a 17th century peasant would have had in their entire life.

00:02:10.000 So we have this glut of information that we're dealing with about as well as we dealt with calories.

00:02:17.000 I talk about this quite often, but the way I describe it is diet and that most people have a poor diet and that most people's diet is not nutritious.

00:02:24.000 And if you have a poor diet that's not nutritious, your body becomes unhealthy.

00:02:28.000 Well, if you have a poor mental diet, and I've discussed, how many people do we talk about this with?

00:02:33.000 Like three or four people have been talking about this.

00:02:34.000 Like taking in information, you should almost think of it as a mental diet.

00:02:38.000 Because if you take in bad information all the time, negative information.

00:02:42.000 And I will speak for myself, but I don't think I'm in any way alone.

00:02:46.000 I often forget where I read stuff.

00:02:49.000 Oh yeah, I do all the time.

00:02:49.000 So I have to be really careful to not read too much garbage.

00:02:54.000 Or it just pops up in my head as, oh, that's real.

00:02:57.000 So I try to go with news sources that I think are pretty reliable, even if I disagree with them.

00:03:04.000 Like, I try to read the Times, because I know there's a level to how much they're going to lie.

00:03:09.000 We know where the parameters are.

00:03:11.000 They're lying there.

00:03:12.000 We know where they do the spin.

00:03:14.000 And if you just pop around the web at random, you can't tell what kind of information you're getting.

00:03:20.000 But I also want to add to this, it's exactly the way I feel about drugs.

00:03:25.000 As much as I want to say, this is not right for me, information has to be out there.

00:03:31.000 And all information, absolutely no gatekeepers.

00:03:34.000 No, I completely agree, and I think that we're coming very close to a time where technology allows us to understand what's true and what's not true.

00:03:42.000 We're not there yet, but I think we're really close to being able to have some sort of an ability to read minds, to decipher information, like, really clearly.

00:03:53.000 But the problem with reading minds...

00:03:55.000 If we could do it, to ascertain truth, is truth is very different from what someone believes.

00:04:02.000 You know, if you had a perfect lie detector, it would not help you with criminality at all.

00:04:07.000 Because, you know, people that think they're innocent may very well think they're innocent, even if they are not.

00:04:12.000 Oh, sure, sure.

00:04:13.000 Yeah, that's a really good point.

00:04:14.000 And, you know, another really good point is memory is very fallible.

00:04:17.000 Well, yeah. 0.98

00:04:18.000 See, I got a lot of shit for this, and I talked about it a little bit on my podcast, but I was in the room with Trump a lot. 0.99

00:04:26.000 I did two tours of duty. 0.99

00:04:30.000 Tell me about that.

00:04:31.000 What is that like?

00:04:32.000 Because I was supposed to do that show, and I passed on it.

00:04:35.000 I was like, I don't want to live in New York for three months, or whatever it was.

00:04:38.000 It just seemed like a...

00:04:38.000 It's wise either way.

00:04:41.000 It was a primetime television show.

00:04:44.000 So it's sold tickets.

00:04:45.000 And that is our job.

00:04:47.000 And that's what we do.

00:04:49.000 And I went on with one idea in my head.

00:04:52.000 You know, Annie Duke, you know, the poker player?

00:04:54.000 She had been on the year before.

00:04:55.000 And I said, why am I going on?

00:04:58.000 I mean, I'm not going to sell tickets.

00:04:59.000 And that's just a done deal.

00:05:01.000 But why am I going on?

00:05:02.000 What's my real goal?

00:05:04.000 And she said, go on and show that atheists can be kind.

00:05:08.000 That'll be your only goal for the whole show.

00:05:11.000 Because they're going to jump on you for being an atheist, and they'll jump all over you for that, and just show that you're the one that gets mad the least.

00:05:19.000 Show the one that you're the nicest guy on there, and you're the hardcore atheist.

00:05:23.000 And I went, okay, that's a good goal.

00:05:25.000 But then you sit in the room, and I don't know how well you know the President of the United States of America.

00:05:30.000 I don't want to know him at all.

00:05:31.000 Yeah.

00:05:32.000 But you spend about...

00:05:36.000 Two or three hours every other day, sitting in a room across the table like this, with a table you can't put your hands on.

00:05:43.000 Why can't you put your hands on it?

00:05:44.000 Because it might mar it.

00:05:46.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

00:05:47.000 It might put a handprint on it.

00:05:48.000 They literally tell you don't put your hands on a table?

00:05:49.000 Don't put your hands on the table.

00:05:50.000 And you have to sit up straight.

00:05:51.000 And the camera, if you're like the team captain, which by the way, they hate it if you call them team captain.

00:05:57.000 They like to have some sort of business jargon.

00:06:00.000 And you're in a set, and that's the thing that everybody else on the show would say, we're going into the boardroom now.

00:06:07.000 And I'd say, no, we're going onto the boardroom set.

00:06:10.000 So it wasn't a real boardroom?

00:06:11.000 No, of course not.

00:06:12.000 None of it was real.

00:06:13.000 Was it in a soundstage? 1.00

00:06:14.000 It was in the Trump Towers, but they'd taken over a floor, and NBC guts it and puts up this shit. 0.99

00:06:21.000 And then you've got your camera, that's your hero camera, that's over your shoulder that's shooting Trump. 0.99

00:06:27.000 Right.

00:06:50.000 What does he have to say for two hours?

00:06:53.000 He would talk.

00:06:54.000 I mean, things obviously have changed, but he would talk about...

00:06:58.000 I was reading this blog on the internet that said I didn't sell my property for enough, and I bought it for $3 million and I sold it for $4 million.

00:07:08.000 Isn't that a profit?

00:07:10.000 Isn't that a profit?

00:07:11.000 What do you think?

00:07:11.000 Isn't that a profit?

00:07:13.000 Yeah, that would be a million dollars profit.

00:07:15.000 Well, they said I sold it for too little.

00:07:19.000 Okay.

00:07:20.000 Who was this?

00:07:21.000 It was somebody on the internet!

00:07:23.000 Okay.

00:07:24.000 So, you know, he'd be arguing in front of us with perhaps a 18-year-old guy on the internet who thought that Donald Trump should have made more from a real estate deal.

00:07:35.000 And this is something he really concentrates on.

00:07:37.000 He seems to...

00:07:39.000 Still to this day.

00:07:40.000 Yeah.

00:07:40.000 Obsessed with what anybody says about him anytime.

00:07:43.000 That's so odd.

00:07:43.000 And I thought, and I want to say this very clearly, I thought he was wonderful at his job.

00:07:51.000 If you had someone who was actually a business person on that show, it would be the worst show in the world because Bill Gates would make proper decisions and there'd be no surprises. 0.91

00:08:03.000 You want someone capricious and crazy with no filter. 0.97

00:08:08.000 That's what you want. 0.99

00:08:09.000 Right.

00:08:09.000 And that's what we got.

00:08:10.000 So he makes arbitrary decisions that you try, you know, the human brain tries desperately to make those make sense, and that ends up being some kind of entertainment.

00:08:18.000 And so I actually, actually Donald Trump Jr. said to me, you know, of all the people we've had on the show, you seem like the only person who's ever liked my father.

00:08:30.000 Yeah.

00:08:31.000 He said, you actually seem to like him.

00:08:33.000 And I said, you know, I have a fascination and a respect and an affection for people who are able to get out of their filters.

00:08:44.000 And I said, some people do that with pure genius, like Bob Dylan.

00:08:49.000 Some people do it with bravery, like Lenny Bruce.

00:08:52.000 Some people do it with drugs, you know, Neil Young, perhaps, Jimi Hendrix, perhaps.

00:08:59.000 And most people do it with a mixture of stuff.

00:09:02.000 But I said Thelonious Monk said the genius is the one who is most like himself.

00:09:08.000 And I said with some sort of mental...

00:09:13.000 Problems coupled with greed and a lack of compassion, your father has somehow found a way to throw off the filters.

00:09:24.000 And I will listen to Tiny Tim talk on tape for hours because I like that little bit of Asperger's and all that other stuff. 0.96

00:09:33.000 I'm not qualified to, but I'm saying that's possible.

00:09:37.000 He's an oddity.

00:09:37.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:09:38.000 I can hear him talk forever.

00:09:40.000 I can listen to Lenny Bruce.

00:09:41.000 You know, Hal Wilner has those hundreds of hours of him just ranting under his tape.

00:09:45.000 I think I don't like people on drugs that much, but boy, I do.

00:09:49.000 And I listen to Lenny Bruce talk forever, and Donald Trump had the dark side of that. 0.95

00:09:58.000 You know, it's almost like when I was hitchhiking around the country and, you know, homeless and shit, and you'd end up at a biker place and, you know, some clubhouse and some guys just holding court and ranting.

00:10:08.000 I've always been interested in the people who are out on the margins, you know?

00:10:13.000 And What Donald Jr. took as affection, I guess was a bit of affection, but it's also that if you have thrown off some filters, I'll listen to you talk.

00:10:29.000 And so that was that.

00:10:31.000 It was very, very strange.

00:10:32.000 And then I really did spend a lot of time kind of sticking up for Donald Trump saying, yeah, there's interesting stuff there. 1.00

00:10:40.000 And yeah, he's crazy and he's venal and he's empty. 0.98

00:10:45.000 You know, really weird stuff that you've never seen before. 0.97

00:10:50.000 You have never seen someone who has never laughed sincerely and never made a joke.

00:10:55.000 Never laugh sincerely.

00:10:57.000 No, he will laugh in a bully way. 0.99

00:10:59.000 Ha ha, you look kind of fat, Joe! 0.98

00:11:02.000 Really? 0.62

00:11:02.000 Yeah, he'll do that. 0.62

00:11:03.000 But he won't laugh at himself.

00:11:04.000 Oh, no.

00:11:06.000 And also, but never even a joke.

00:11:09.000 But he says funny things on Twitter.

00:11:11.000 Did you see the thing he did on Twitter the other day where he put a picture of Trump Tower in Greenland and he said, I promise not to do this?

00:11:17.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:11:17.000 I mean, I laughed.

00:11:19.000 That was funny.

00:11:21.000 Just a giant Trump Tower in the middle of Greenland.

00:11:23.000 I never saw it.

00:11:25.000 I mean, I saw that tweet.

00:11:26.000 But you never saw him in person.

00:11:26.000 I never saw him in person.

00:11:27.000 I also never saw him show any enjoyment or understanding of music.

00:11:31.000 Oh.

00:11:32.000 And those two things are two things that I connect with people very much on.

00:11:37.000 I do too, but one of my best friends, Doug Stanhope, does not like music.

00:11:41.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:11:42.000 I know Doug doesn't. 0.99

00:11:42.000 He's like, I fucking hate music. 0.99

00:11:44.000 It's like... 0.99

00:11:45.000 And Teller's father.

00:11:47.000 Really?

00:11:47.000 Teller's father didn't like music.

00:11:49.000 I mean, I don't know.

00:11:50.000 And aggressively didn't like music.

00:11:52.000 Yeah, I don't know what that is.

00:11:53.000 But I do know that I don't believe that we see things the same way.

00:11:58.000 Like, I don't think we taste things the same way, which is why some people enjoy certain kinds of foods and some people hate those exact same foods.

00:12:04.000 Some people, music sounds different to people in terms of, like, what their emotional and psychological makeup is and what it does to them.

00:12:13.000 Some people don't want to have none of it.

00:12:14.000 And that's stand-up.

00:12:15.000 When I lost all that weight, I lost over 100 pounds, and I read a lot, and also, more importantly, four years and kept it off.

00:12:24.000 But when I was reading about taste, I read this book, and it's awful that I can't bring up the name, but a woman wrote this wonderful book about preferences in food.

00:12:39.000 We're good to go.

00:12:57.000 It's just habit.

00:12:59.000 Is that proven?

00:13:00.000 How can they prove that?

00:13:01.000 It seems to be lots of studies with young children, lots of studies with people who they control their diet.

00:13:08.000 But how does it make sense when you have two kids that have radically different tastes and they grow up in the same household and they have essentially very, very similar food experiences?

00:13:18.000 Yeah, well, I don't know how they tease out that.

00:13:21.000 I have one daughter who loves spicy food.

00:13:24.000 And she's young.

00:13:25.000 She's nine.

00:13:26.000 And I love spicy food. 1.00

00:13:28.000 And, I mean, this fucking kid can eat jalapenos. 1.00

00:13:30.000 She eats habanero sauce. 1.00

00:13:32.000 I'll say this one might be a little too hot for you.

00:13:34.000 She's like, let me try it.

00:13:35.000 And she'll dip her finger in it. 0.61

00:13:37.000 She's like, put it on.

00:13:38.000 She'll eat chicken with habanero sauce. 0.60

00:13:40.000 She's a little savage. 1.00

00:13:41.000 My other one doesn't want to have nothing to do with it.

00:13:43.000 We're good to go.

00:13:49.000 We're good to go.

00:13:59.000 You know, a lot of that is because of gut bacteria.

00:14:01.000 Oh, I know that.

00:14:01.000 Oh, yeah.

00:14:03.000 Microbiome.

00:14:03.000 Fascinating.

00:14:04.000 Really fascinating stuff.

00:14:05.000 And feeding back to your brain, you know?

00:14:07.000 That was the thing that was so strange.

00:14:10.000 Including your emotions.

00:14:12.000 Yes, very much so.

00:14:13.000 But when I became plant-based, vegan, for health reasons, and I wrote in my book, I wrote a lot of stuff about I am an unethical vegan.

00:14:25.000 I'm not doing this for any sort of animal...

00:14:28.000 Any sort of lack of animal cruelty, nothing.

00:14:31.000 Strictly health.

00:14:32.000 That's why I'm doing the plants.

00:14:33.000 End of story.

00:14:34.000 And this has happened to a lot of friends of mine who changed that. 1.00

00:14:38.000 After whatever it takes, and people are guessing like three months, four months of no animal products, those little critters eating shit in your guts die. 1.00

00:14:54.000 We're good to go. 0.99

00:15:12.000 I'm a hardcore atheist, as you know, and I don't believe in a mind-body separation at all.

00:15:20.000 And yet, I seem to believe that when I was 350 pounds, that none of that affected my emotion.

00:15:31.000 And then I lost all this weight and found there were so many changes in me that seemed to be intellectual and emotional.

00:15:41.000 And actually, I had a lot of evidence we're physical.

00:15:45.000 And it really fucked me up on the mind-body separation. 0.99

00:15:48.000 It should fuck you up. 0.99

00:15:49.000 Because a lot of people make these assumptions that, you know, you are not your body. 0.99

00:15:54.000 And a lot of very intelligent people, they eschew working out and they don't want to exercise and they find it... 0.96

00:16:00.000 Like, it's a vanity thing, it seems egotistical, they don't like it, and so they put it in this category of kind of knucklehead dumb things to do.

00:16:10.000 But your body and your mind are all in the same house. 0.94

00:16:13.000 It's all the same thing, yeah. 1.00

00:16:14.000 Yeah, if your house is filled with shit, it doesn't help the way you think. 0.99

00:16:17.000 And it was so amazing how, I mean, I completely believed that, and yet I wasn't living that. 0.99

00:16:25.000 I was like thinking that I was living this, you know, 2,000-year-old idea of little homunculus who's kind of living inside me, who's this pure pen, and then the body is just the vehicle it's driving around in.

00:16:38.000 And that's just not true.

00:16:39.000 Well, if I could help you with that, I think knowing you as long as I've known you, you're an intense thinker, and your mind is something you...

00:16:47.000 I mean, you cherish your thoughts and you embrace them and you're a very intelligent guy.

00:16:53.000 And I think you just probably rejected the idea that there was anything outside of the mind that had any influence on you.

00:17:01.000 Yeah, we also talked about this.

00:17:02.000 I was also, you know, I was the biggest guy to ever go through my school.

00:17:06.000 So my small high school in Western Massachusetts, you know, so I was 6'7", and they wanted me center of the basketball team.

00:17:14.000 They wanted all this stuff.

00:17:15.000 And those kinds of people in that kind of culture, you know, I wanted to listen to music.

00:17:21.000 I wanted to read.

00:17:22.000 And I set up this, you guys who are physical, I don't like you.

00:17:27.000 I'm on a different team, you know.

00:17:29.000 And my dislike of competitions and teams became a team thing.

00:17:33.000 Yes.

00:17:35.000 That's the thing you always get stuck in.

00:17:37.000 The dislike of teams becomes your team.

00:17:40.000 And I'm trying so hard now to think I have two choices, one or seven billion.

00:17:47.000 And there's no teams between that.

00:17:49.000 I can either be myself or I can be one of all humanity.

00:17:53.000 Or I won't even say seven billion.

00:17:55.000 Let's say 108 billion, the number of people who have lived in history.

00:17:59.000 You know, those are the people I can be.

00:18:01.000 It's why I'm trying to not – and this is impossible to do, by the way.

00:18:05.000 I'm talking about how I'm – I'm explaining to you how I'm driving myself crazy.

00:18:08.000 I'm not giving you real information.

00:18:11.000 I'm trying to not think ever of us and them.

00:18:15.000 But I'm trying to say those of us who voted for Trump, those of us who believe this. 0.94

00:18:20.000 So it's always us because, man, I am so fucking sick of teams. 0.62

00:18:25.000 And I even look back and go, you know, I love the Velvet Underground. 0.99

00:18:29.000 I hated the fucking Eagles. 1.00

00:18:32.000 And that was a fucking team. 1.00

00:18:34.000 And that was manipulated and forced upon me. 1.00

00:18:37.000 You know what I mean?

00:18:37.000 I wanted to be the kind of guy that went from, you know, Zappa to the Velvet Underground to Bob Dylan.

00:18:45.000 That was all okay.

00:18:46.000 And the Eagles and the Doobie Brothers.

00:18:49.000 They were not what I listened to.

00:18:51.000 I'm just trying to let that go.

00:18:52.000 Yeah, you wanted to be one of the cool kids.

00:18:54.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:18:55.000 And whenever you want that, you've got to say, well, you're one of the cool kids.

00:18:59.000 That's the 108 billion who've lived on this planet.

00:19:01.000 Yeah, that's a great way to look at things.

00:19:04.000 And I think, I wish people taught that in school, the dangers of being involved in teams.

00:19:09.000 Because we get involved in teams in terms of like, you know, you're playing basketball or whatever, but teams in terms of like what I believe versus what you believe.

00:19:17.000 And I think we're experiencing that politically right now with the most polarizing time in my lifetime that I've ever been experiencing.

00:19:25.000 And worldwide!

00:19:25.000 Yes.

00:19:26.000 Worldwide.

00:19:27.000 I mean, it is not an American thing.

00:19:30.000 Right.

00:19:30.000 And it's just insane.

00:19:33.000 And I also know, that's why I said, you know, I try to go with the Velvet Underground and the Eagles because that's where I can really see where I'm wrong.

00:19:41.000 Yeah.

00:19:41.000 You know, that I'm wrong.

00:19:42.000 How do you deny victim of love? 0.99

00:19:44.000 That's a great goddamn song, man. 0.99

00:19:46.000 Okay. 0.99

00:19:46.000 Once Joe Walsh got in the mix, the Eagles changed. 0.99

00:19:49.000 That's what people have to recognize.

00:19:51.000 I was in the middle of the China Sea with Joe Walsh through a series of odd coincidences that I had.

00:19:58.000 Well, just last year, we got this gig.

00:20:01.000 Paul Allen, who was one of the Microsoft guys.

00:20:04.000 Sure.

00:20:05.000 Great guy, right?

00:20:06.000 I hear great things about him.

00:20:08.000 He books us to be on a cruise to do a show for his friends. 0.99

00:20:13.000 He's got like 200 friends, and he's bought this fucking cruise ship. 1.00

00:20:17.000 He's rented this fucking cruise ship. 0.99

00:20:18.000 Thrown off all the chefs and everything, bring on his own people, and they're going to go from Kobe to Shanghai, and he wants the entertainment to be Jay Leno, Penn& Teller, and Ringo Starr. 0.99

00:20:31.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:20:32.000 Okay, that's what it's going to be, on the China Sea, on a cruise boat, for like 200 people.

00:20:36.000 And he books it. 0.97

00:20:37.000 And as I said to my friend, Piff the Magic Dragon, I said, do you know how much it costs to shut down Penn& Teller in Vegas and fly us all to fucking Japan to be on a cruise ship to do a fucking Penn& Teller show and then come back? 0.96

00:20:53.000 Do you have any idea how much that costs? 0.95

00:20:55.000 And Piff said, no.

00:20:56.000 And I said, me neither.

00:20:57.000 But it must be a lot.

00:20:58.000 You've got to talk to my managers or something because that must have been a shit ton of money.

00:21:02.000 So he books this whole thing and then Paul Allen dies.

00:21:05.000 Right?

00:21:06.000 Dies.

00:21:07.000 So, you know, Glenn, who you met out there, the long-suffering Glenn, our manager, he calls up after a few days and says, really sorry for your loss, and we'll trade in the tickets and get you the money back,

00:21:22.000 and we can probably rebook those weeks so it's not going to cost you anything.

00:21:27.000 It's so sorry.

00:21:28.000 No, no, no, we're still doing it.

00:21:30.000 And Glenn goes, we're The person that booked us is dead.

00:21:36.000 We're still doing this gig?

00:21:37.000 And they go, yeah, yeah.

00:21:38.000 We went, okay.

00:21:41.000 And I said to Glenn, you know, now that we can work for dead people, our career's going to take off.

00:21:47.000 You know, because that opens up the market, right?

00:21:49.000 Right.

00:21:50.000 So, it turns out that his friends, you know, Paul Allen's friends, were people like Joe Walsh and Billy Gibbons and all these food scientists and all these great people.

00:22:01.000 So, there I am in the middle of the China Sea with Joe Walsh on stage just at 3 in the morning playing piano for like 15 people.

00:22:12.000 And, you know, singing Desperado and those kinds of things and talking to Joe Walsh and stuff and going, now, why exactly was I on a different team from Joe Walsh?

00:22:22.000 Why exactly was I on the Lou Reed team instead of the Joe Walsh team?

00:22:26.000 Maybe it was the big Lebowski influence team.

00:22:28.000 Maybe it was that.

00:22:29.000 Maybe it was that.

00:22:30.000 But it's just trying to be more and more inclusive is just a really difficult thing to do.

00:22:38.000 It is.

00:22:38.000 Whether it's the jocks and the music guys or all that stuff.

00:22:42.000 Just everybody be everybody.

00:22:43.000 You become a prisoner of those thoughts and those things you espouse. 1.00

00:22:47.000 Like when you start saying, fuck the Eagles, you're stuck. 1.00

00:22:50.000 You're stuck with fuck the Eagles. 1.00

00:22:52.000 And then when you start to realize that when the clash was hitting in the U.S., There were people sitting around a boardroom going, how do we get 20-year-old assholes to buy this shit? 1.00

00:23:03.000 It was all being done and laid out, and that's fine. 0.99

00:23:07.000 That's their job, and that's great, and God bless them, but I've got to be aware that they're doing that.

00:23:12.000 Yeah, I know.

00:23:13.000 When you think about someone selling Sex Pistols merchandise, you're just like, oh, well, there's Sex Pistols slot machines.

00:23:22.000 When I was first in the hard rock, you know, and there's a big sign.

00:23:25.000 The only notes that really count are the ones that come in wads, and that's over the door of a casino that you're walking in, and then there's a Sid Vicious slot machine, and you go, okay, okay, so this is...

00:23:38.000 You know, satire's dead.

00:23:40.000 We can no longer do satire.

00:23:42.000 That's over.

00:23:43.000 It's hard to do satire today.

00:23:44.000 It's not.

00:23:44.000 Oh, I never liked it.

00:23:45.000 I never liked satire. 0.90

00:23:46.000 Today it's really hard because there's so many people that are serious that are more ridiculous than satire.

00:23:52.000 There's a guy who, I don't know his real name, but his Twitter name is Tatiana McGrath.

00:23:57.000 And he plays, like, the most woke person in all of Twitter.

00:23:59.000 And I retweet his stuff, or her stuff, the pseudonym, all the time.

00:24:05.000 And people get furious. 0.99

00:24:06.000 They're like, oh my god, is this fucking person serious? 1.00

00:24:09.000 Like, this is bullshit. 1.00

00:24:10.000 And I'm like, it's a parody. 1.00

00:24:11.000 And they're like, oh, okay.

00:24:13.000 And they go, okay, I get it.

00:24:14.000 I'm like, it's that close.

00:24:15.000 It's that close to being a real person.

00:24:18.000 But not close.

00:24:19.000 We've already crossed over.

00:24:20.000 Oh, yeah.

00:24:21.000 Absolutely, there's no way to tell.

00:24:23.000 No, there's no way to tell with woke people.

00:24:25.000 With the woke young.

00:24:27.000 There's no way to tell with anything.

00:24:28.000 With far-righty as well, yeah.

00:24:29.000 Anything.

00:24:30.000 Anything.

00:24:30.000 There's no way to tell with any of us.

00:24:32.000 Things are so polarizing.

00:24:33.000 But I never, ever, ever liked satire.

00:24:36.000 I never, ever liked parody.

00:24:38.000 Even when I was reading...

00:24:39.000 The Onion?

00:24:39.000 National Lampoon...

00:24:41.000 The Onion.

00:24:42.000 Yeah, okay. 1.00

00:24:43.000 Shut up. 1.00

00:24:44.000 I'm wrong. 1.00

00:24:45.000 How about that?

00:24:46.000 Is that a turnaround fast enough for you?

00:24:48.000 The Onion is too good. 0.98

00:24:49.000 When The Onion did the headline when Steve Jobs died, which said, Nation mourns the loss of the last person to do what the fuck he was doing. 0.97

00:25:02.000 I went, okay, that's perfect. 0.89

00:25:04.000 But you know, I saw that poster you have up here in your...

00:25:09.000 Which one?

00:25:09.000 The Lenny Bruce Without Tears.

00:25:11.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:25:12.000 And you know, the idea of walking...

00:25:15.000 I mean, I looked...

00:25:16.000 I was whatever I was...

00:25:19.000 I was 10 or 11 when Lenny Bruce died.

00:25:23.000 But, you know, I didn't ever hear him until after he was dead.

00:25:27.000 And you're younger than me, so even more so for you.

00:25:30.000 But I did not go to college, but I would hitchhike up to the college.

00:25:35.000 It was nearby when I was in high school, which was UMass and all that.

00:25:39.000 Amherst, yeah.

00:25:40.000 Because I'm from a little dead factory town north of there.

00:25:44.000 And I remember seeing Lenny Bruce Without Tears.

00:25:48.000 They showed that as a film.

00:25:50.000 Oh, wow.

00:25:50.000 On the college campus.

00:25:52.000 Wow.

00:25:53.000 I think I'm remembering this right.

00:25:55.000 Like, we know our memories are wrong.

00:25:56.000 But I saw the film very early.

00:25:59.000 And it was completely life-changing for me.

00:26:02.000 You know, the idea that stand-up comedy was going to go from what, to me, was the Smothers Brothers to Yeah.

00:26:29.000 Was created, you know, created here in the U.S. when you went from being a, you know, a carcass, you know, Albert Brooks' father doing the Greek dialect and even throw in Amos and Andy and all of those people that did joke,

00:26:45.000 joke, jokes and character stuff.

00:26:47.000 And then all of a sudden a guy coming out as himself.

00:26:51.000 And talking about his real life is just mind-blowing to me.

00:26:55.000 And so the idea that instead of doing parody, being able to get your laughs stating what you believe.

00:27:03.000 And maybe that means people are laughing at you.

00:27:06.000 And maybe that's okay.

00:27:08.000 It's definitely okay, but I don't think there's anything wrong with any way to do it.

00:27:12.000 I think there's nothing wrong with Abbott and Costello.

00:27:15.000 You know, I mean, it's...

00:27:16.000 I was having a talk with Gilbert, you know, Gilbert Gottfried, and we were talking, we said, you know, in Laurel and Hardy, Stan Laurel was the brains, and in Three Stooges, Moe was the brains, and in the Marx Brothers, Groucho was the brains,

00:27:31.000 and Abbott and Costello had no brains.

00:27:34.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:27:36.000 That total – you want to talk about the Stooges being anarchy.

00:27:39.000 The Abbott and Costello are just completely off the map.

00:27:44.000 Just really – For the time, though, it was groundbreaking.

00:27:48.000 It's hard for us to wrap our head around, as was Cheech and Chong.

00:27:52.000 Cheech and Chong, for the time, was groundbreaking.

00:27:55.000 I know it has to do with drugs.

00:27:56.000 For me, I was on a different team at that time.

00:28:01.000 But I've gone back, and that stuff is good.

00:28:03.000 But I'm also a liar, because I was crazy for Fireside Theater and memorizing everything.

00:28:10.000 And Phil Proctor is still a good friend of mine.

00:28:14.000 And that was...

00:28:17.000 I think that comedy is like music in that there's a whole bunch of different ways to do it.

00:28:22.000 And if you were a big fan of Bruce Springsteen and you went to see Bruce Springsteen but Run DMC showed up instead, you'd be furious. 0.99

00:28:30.000 You'd be like, what the fuck is this? 0.99

00:28:32.000 But obviously, people love Run DMC. It's a different way to do a thing. 0.99

00:28:37.000 It's a different way to express yourself.

00:28:39.000 And a way to learn.

00:28:40.000 Yeah.

00:28:41.000 A way to learn when you get pushed out of there.

00:28:43.000 But it's just...

00:28:46.000 That whole idea that you've got to—I mean, my life is so heavily affected.

00:28:55.000 By drugs.

00:28:56.000 Even though I had this whole, you know, I'm not going to do any drugs.

00:29:01.000 Why did you have that decision?

00:29:03.000 You know, I don't know.

00:29:04.000 I don't know.

00:29:04.000 That's always, and I've talked about this on my podcast forever, you know.

00:29:09.000 How old are you now?

00:29:10.000 What's that?

00:29:10.000 How old are you now?

00:29:11.000 I'm 64 years old.

00:29:12.000 And you have no experience with drugs other than medication when you're in surgery.

00:29:17.000 Yes, and I've had deep enough injuries that I have experienced.

00:29:21.000 You just keep getting surgery because you love drugs.

00:29:23.000 Exactly.

00:29:25.000 Well, you know, Trey Parker said that my big flaw was never having been high.

00:29:32.000 We can fix that.

00:29:33.000 I know.

00:29:34.000 So he did fix that. 0.99

00:29:35.000 I went in for dental surgery, serious dental surgery, and they fucked up. 0.98

00:29:41.000 And the dentist told the nurse what he had given me in terms of painkillers. 0.99

00:29:48.000 And she took that as what she was supposed to give me.

00:29:53.000 So instantly doubled the dose. 0.95

00:29:55.000 And I was so fucking high and out of my mind. 0.98

00:29:58.000 People can die that way. 0.91

00:30:00.000 Yeah.

00:30:00.000 And I told my wife, through my haze of not knowing who I was, call Trey Parker.

00:30:09.000 Trey came to Vegas and said, I want to sit with Penn High. 0.98

00:30:12.000 So he flew in immediately while you were fucked up? 0.99

00:30:15.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:30:15.000 Oh my god. 0.99

00:30:16.000 How long did it take him to get to you?

00:30:18.000 He was planning on being there like, he came like a day early.

00:30:22.000 So he got there like I was still high, and Trey said, I didn't remember anything, and Trey said the next day, I was right, you should be high.

00:30:32.000 Well, there's different kinds of high, just like there's different kinds of music. 0.99

00:30:36.000 And you know I was very close to Lou Reed, and I was a very good friend of mine, and Lou said, speaking on behalf of the people of Earth, which I often do, we don't want to see you high, motherfucker, don't do it. 0.98

00:30:51.000 So Lou says no, Trey says yes. 0.98

00:30:53.000 What does Joe say?

00:30:55.000 Well, Joe, this is interesting because I wanted to talk to you about this because we had a conversation a long time ago about this and you said, and I'll remember this very clearly, I may paraphrase this, but you said, I think we've learned all there is to know and I don't need to do it.

00:31:09.000 Yes, I said that and I was wrong.

00:31:11.000 Yeah.

00:31:12.000 Yeah, just wrong.

00:31:13.000 I think you should experience psychedelics.

00:31:15.000 Because I think psychedelics are a totally different thing.

00:31:18.000 They don't take you out.

00:31:19.000 Well, we know Sam Harris.

00:31:20.000 Sure.

00:31:20.000 And Sam Harris is the one who got me meditating.

00:31:23.000 Oh, awesome.

00:31:24.000 Which took him years of arguing with me.

00:31:28.000 And now it's been three or four years that I have not missed a day.

00:31:32.000 Not Mr. Day.

00:31:33.000 You have a problem.

00:31:35.000 Here's one of your problems.

00:31:36.000 You're very intelligent.

00:31:37.000 You're also very large.

00:31:39.000 And you're very articulate.

00:31:40.000 And people like to hear you talk.

00:31:42.000 So you just can talk and you can take over.

00:31:45.000 You can overrun things.

00:31:46.000 And you can make an argument that people just go, alright.

00:31:49.000 Okay.

00:31:50.000 And they step back.

00:31:51.000 And that's good if you're trying to win an argument, but sometimes it's bad to take in ideas.

00:31:56.000 And I remember when I had that conversation- Exactly right.

00:31:58.000 Thank you.

00:31:59.000 When I had that conversation with you, I remember saying, I'm going to revisit this someday. 0.90

00:32:02.000 And one day, I want to get Penn fucked up on mushrooms. 0.96

00:32:05.000 That's what I remember thinking. 0.98

00:32:06.000 It might be a good thing for...

00:32:08.000 Well, the best thing for you would be something that doesn't take very long.

00:32:13.000 DMT is the best one because it takes like 15 minutes and it's over.

00:32:16.000 And then your body brings it back to baseline almost immediately.

00:32:19.000 So you literally travel to another dimension and then you're back and you don't have to worry about any overdosing because it's an endogenous chemical.

00:32:26.000 Your body knows exactly what to do with it.

00:32:28.000 It's one of the quickest chemicals that your body can break down and bring back to baseline.

00:32:32.000 In my defense, From the very beginning of my not doing drugs, which is an odd kind of baseline there, I always left the door open for psychedelics.

00:32:50.000 What I disliked the most was wine with dinner.

00:32:55.000 Really?

00:32:55.000 I disliked the most social kind of lubrication.

00:32:59.000 Wine with dinner is amazing.

00:33:01.000 I'm doing this in past tense.

00:33:02.000 Yeah.

00:33:02.000 You know, that's where I always was, and I always left open the possibility of some of the more intense stuff.

00:33:11.000 Wine with dinner is a delicious drug.

00:33:14.000 It's one of the rare delicious drugs. 1.00

00:33:16.000 Like, I like whiskey, but let's be honest, it tastes like shit. 1.00

00:33:19.000 It's weird. 0.99

00:33:20.000 You're drinking this stuff, it's like, ow!

00:33:22.000 Woo! 0.99

00:33:23.000 Like, it's got kind of a good flavor, but it's like, it's harsh.

00:33:26.000 You can't drink it. 0.99

00:33:26.000 Like, it can't fuck with Kool-Aid. 0.99

00:33:28.000 Kool-Aid tastes way better than whiskey. 0.99

00:33:30.000 Right?

00:33:30.000 Kool-Aid's cheap.

00:33:32.000 You just mix it up.

00:33:33.000 It tastes delicious.

00:33:33.000 It's way better tasting.

00:33:36.000 But, you know, wine has a delicious taste that you can enjoy.

00:33:41.000 Here's my problem.

00:33:42.000 One of my many problems.

00:33:43.000 We'll detail more than one.

00:33:45.000 But I have no skill at moderation.

00:33:50.000 I'm 64 years old, and I've never been able to do anything with moderation.

00:33:56.000 So I think if you told me, we're going to do acid for the rest of our lives every single day, you could make that argument.

00:34:04.000 The idea for me that's hard, like I said, when I said I was meditated, I haven't missed a day!

00:34:09.000 Maybe you should microdose.

00:34:10.000 Yeah, maybe.

00:34:12.000 We'd give you a little right now, just a little spray.

00:34:14.000 You do microdosing sprays.

00:34:16.000 I'm not going to do it now.

00:34:17.000 I want to think about it a little bit before, although we'd be pretty boss.

00:34:25.000 You got the box right there.

00:34:27.000 I got a box right here.

00:34:28.000 I was going to answer that question.

00:34:32.000 I have a zillion answers to why I've never done drugs.

00:34:36.000 And none of them are, of course, true.

00:34:37.000 Because we don't have access to that stuff that we really do.

00:34:41.000 But my parents and my whole family and back generations, teetotalers.

00:34:46.000 So there was never alcohol in the house.

00:34:49.000 Ever.

00:34:49.000 I never saw my parents take a drink.

00:34:52.000 When it was on TV, it was a totally different thing.

00:34:55.000 It just didn't happen.

00:34:57.000 They never preached about it.

00:34:58.000 They never said, don't drink.

00:34:59.000 They never said, don't do drugs.

00:35:01.000 It just never was in the house.

00:35:02.000 And that statistically has a huge effect on people.

00:35:06.000 And then the first people I fell madly in love with, Lenny Bruce, Jimi Hendrix, had been, in my mind, killed by drugs.

00:35:18.000 And I kind of said, ooh, people that have this kind of personality, when they get into drugs, they sometimes have trouble.

00:35:25.000 And I think that maybe being 19 years old and trying to get into show business, that maybe being the sober one allowed the dumber guy to do a little better, you know?

00:35:35.000 As everybody else kind of got out of my way, as they were fucked up some of the time, I could get other stuff done. 0.81

00:35:40.000 And then that starts reinforcing.

00:35:42.000 That may no longer be valid.

00:35:44.000 Yeah.

00:35:44.000 Well, there are, I mean, I've never done coke, and one of the reasons why I never did coke, and I've talked about this many times, my friend growing up, his cousin used to sell it, and I watched his life fall apart.

00:35:52.000 They were just doing coke all the time and lost a lot of weight and looked like a vampire.

00:35:56.000 It was very strange.

00:35:57.000 They just hung out in their attic apartment.

00:35:59.000 It was really weird.

00:36:00.000 Mm-hmm. 1.00

00:36:01.000 I remember thinking, fuck Coke. 1.00

00:36:02.000 It was like a guy I know got bit by a monster and was infected with something. 1.00

00:36:08.000 Yeah, the people that I've met on Coke, not pleasant.

00:36:11.000 Not good.

00:36:12.000 And I think that's also one of the accusations against Trump, that he's on some sort of speed, which is why he's so inexhaustible.

00:36:21.000 And also why he has this inability to be affected by criticism in terms of like, he doesn't...

00:36:27.000 There's no self-reflection.

00:36:29.000 No shame.

00:36:29.000 Right.

00:36:29.000 No shame, no self-reflection.

00:36:31.000 And that's something that is a symptom of people that are on speed.

00:36:34.000 And this is the Adderall generation that we're living in. 1.00

00:36:37.000 Goddamn, there's so many fucking people that are on Adderall. 0.99

00:36:39.000 I mean, it's so goddamn common. 1.00

00:36:42.000 I was having this conversation the other day, and someone was telling me about this guy they know who's really brilliant, but... 0.88

00:36:50.000 He's got ADHD, and he just can't stop, and he won't stop talking, and this and that.

00:36:55.000 I'm waiting.

00:36:55.000 I'm just waiting while this person's talking to me.

00:36:57.000 I go, he's on Adderall.

00:36:59.000 And they go, yeah, he is.

00:37:01.000 It's a medication.

00:37:02.000 I go, no, no, no, no. 1.00

00:37:03.000 It's fucking speed. 0.99

00:37:05.000 That guy's on speed, okay? 1.00

00:37:06.000 And you can call it a medication, because you can buy it at the pharmacy. 1.00

00:37:09.000 But that fucking guy's on speed all day long, every day. 0.99

00:37:12.000 And there is a giant number of people in this country that are medicated and that are on speed all the time. 0.99

00:37:20.000 That's that great Andy Warhol quote, which was, in the 60s, we thought we were getting to know people, but we were getting to know drugs.

00:37:27.000 There is definitely a personality type that we think is an individual that actually does seem to have a tie-in with drugs. 0.99

00:37:36.000 It's a fucking Adderall mindset. 1.00

00:37:38.000 There's a speed mindset, and it's a go, go, go, get everything done, more, bigger, faster, accumulate shit, I'm the fucking man, I'm the fucking man! 1.00

00:37:48.000 That's a speed mindset. 1.00

00:37:50.000 It's a dangerous mindset.

00:37:51.000 It's a real weird one.

00:37:52.000 And it's not one that laughs at itself.

00:37:54.000 It's not one that self-deprecates.

00:37:56.000 It's all me, me, me, me, me. 1.00

00:37:58.000 I'm the shit. 1.00

00:37:59.000 And that's what you get out of Trump. 1.00

00:38:01.000 I mean, there's a guy who's a journalist who wrote a story about how...

00:38:06.000 He knows the very Duane Reade pharmacy in Manhattan, where Trump was getting diet pills way back in the day, where he was supposed to take it for like six weeks, he took it for years, and this guy is saying, like, this is what you're dealing with.

00:38:17.000 Like, many people have called him the Adderall president.

00:38:20.000 Yeah.

00:38:22.000 It absolutely could be that he's on something.

00:38:25.000 That all that we're talking about this whole time is just speed.

00:38:30.000 Yeah.

00:38:31.000 I mean, and it gives him the energy to tour.

00:38:32.000 Look, remember when he was running for president? 0.99

00:38:34.000 I'm like, how the fuck is this guy not tired? 0.98

00:38:36.000 I get tired if I tour and do stand-up. 0.99

00:38:38.000 When I do stand-up, it's an hour, 20 minutes of my own routine that I wrote myself.

00:38:43.000 I'm hanging out with friends.

00:38:44.000 I do two shows a night, and I'm like, woo! 1.00

00:38:46.000 This motherfucker's touring, flying around in jets all over the country. 1.00

00:38:50.000 Just inexhausted. 1.00

00:38:51.000 Just no fucking script. 0.99

00:38:53.000 Just goes on stage in front of everybody. 1.00

00:38:54.000 Just ranting and raving about China and the economy and build the wall. 0.88

00:38:58.000 Well, alright, we're going to go to Ohio. 0.99

00:38:59.000 And then off to the jet eating Kentucky Fried Chicken and fucking flies into Ohio and he does it again. 1.00

00:39:04.000 I mean, who the fuck at 70 has that kind of energy? 1.00

00:39:08.000 People on speed. 0.99

00:39:10.000 I don't know if it's true.

00:39:11.000 I might be wrong.

00:39:12.000 I might be wrong.

00:39:13.000 But it seems like it.

00:39:14.000 It seems like all the pieces are in place.

00:39:16.000 And there was a psychologist who did an analysis of all the various psychological traits that people who are on amphetamines have.

00:39:25.000 And they compared it to Trump.

00:39:27.000 And like, all of them.

00:39:29.000 Megalomania.

00:39:29.000 All of the various psychological characteristics.

00:39:33.000 Inability to accept criticism.

00:39:34.000 You know, this thinking that everyone's against them, this delusions of grandeur, all these different things.

00:39:41.000 Well, there was a guy that was on Apprentice who talked about him doing these kind of drugs.

00:39:50.000 It was a news story.

00:39:51.000 But it was like an intern that we weren't going to just kind of faded away after that.

00:39:57.000 But it's a nutty thing.

00:40:01.000 Tom Arnold claims Donald Trump snorted Adderall on The Apprentice set.

00:40:05.000 Okay, well, I know Tom. 0.99

00:40:06.000 He's crazy.

00:40:08.000 I love you, Tom, but I don't know.

00:40:10.000 Yeah.

00:40:10.000 Maybe he did.

00:40:11.000 But Tom Arnold would say that he snorted Coke just to piss Trump off.

00:40:16.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:40:16.000 He would say that just because, I'm fucking with him. 0.99

00:40:18.000 I'm getting under his skin. 1.00

00:40:19.000 Yeah.

00:40:20.000 Maybe he did snort Adderall.

00:40:22.000 I don't know.

00:40:23.000 It doesn't seem like it's the kind of thing he would snort.

00:40:28.000 It seems like he would pretend that it was medicinal.

00:40:32.000 Yeah, he'd take a pill.

00:40:32.000 I mean, it's kind of medicinal.

00:40:34.000 Here's the thing.

00:40:35.000 It will allow you to get more things done.

00:40:37.000 You know, we had a guy in here who wrote a book on Hunter Thompson.

00:40:40.000 And one of the things he was talking about was that he needs Adderall to write.

00:40:43.000 And I was going into it with him because one of the things, a dirty little secret about journalism, is a tremendous amount of journalists are on Adderall.

00:40:51.000 A tremendous amount.

00:40:52.000 Like an enormous amount.

00:40:53.000 Like one of my friends who's a pretty legit...

00:40:55.000 Do we know how much Adderall is going into the USA? That's a good question.

00:41:01.000 How many Adderall prescriptions were made in 2018?

00:41:06.000 Let's just find that out.

00:41:07.000 But my friend, who's a legit journalist for legit publications, said, you would be stunned.

00:41:12.000 And he goes, it's an enormous percentage.

00:41:15.000 It's the vast majority.

00:41:16.000 Well, they just started...

00:41:16.000 They just started banging it out, I mean, like they did with fentanyl, the vets, to children.

00:41:23.000 They just bang out Adderall under, and what's the other one?

00:41:27.000 Prozac?

00:41:28.000 No, the other one they do for, I guess, for attention deficient.

00:41:32.000 Deficit disorder?

00:41:33.000 Is there another one other than Adderall?

00:41:34.000 Is it all just Adderall?

00:41:36.000 Prozac, Adderall.

00:41:37.000 I know Prozac. 0.99

00:41:38.000 Prozac was, they put my neighbor's kid on Prozac for Fucking horrific. 0.99

00:41:42.000 Seems low. 0.98

00:41:43.000 16 million adults or prescriptions were filled.

00:41:47.000 16 million adults had prescriptions filled?

00:41:49.000 Yeah.

00:41:50.000 That's low.

00:41:50.000 And 400,000 abuse it, which seems low also.

00:41:53.000 16 million?

00:41:54.000 Yeah, what is that, like 3%?

00:41:56.000 Yeah.

00:41:56.000 Yeah, that seems low.

00:41:58.000 Less than 4%, 4%, something like that?

00:42:02.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:42:03.000 It seems very low.

00:42:04.000 That was last year?

00:42:06.000 2012 was the last number I can find.

00:42:10.000 That's a million years ago, bro.

00:42:13.000 Maybe that was true for 2012. I think it probably was true for 2012. I think we live in a whole new world now.

00:42:18.000 I don't think it's anywhere near 4% or 5%, whatever the fuck the real number is. 0.91

00:42:23.000 I bet it's about 10. I bet it's 10% of people in this country are on Adderall, if I had to guess. 0.90

00:42:27.000 I bet it's around 30 million.

00:42:30.000 I bet it's around there.

00:42:31.000 I wouldn't be shocked.

00:42:34.000 I know a bunch of people that are on it.

00:42:35.000 A bunch.

00:42:36.000 And some people tell me they have to take it.

00:42:38.000 That's what my favorite one is.

00:42:39.000 I have to take it.

00:42:40.000 I don't take it.

00:42:41.000 What happens?

00:42:41.000 You die?

00:42:42.000 You disappear?

00:42:42.000 What happens if you don't take it?

00:42:44.000 It's fucking speed, man. 0.99

00:42:46.000 And a lot of the people that take it, they're not healthy otherwise. 1.00

00:42:49.000 They're not exercising.

00:42:50.000 They're not drinking a lot of water.

00:42:52.000 They're not meditating.

00:42:53.000 They're not eating healthy foods.

00:42:54.000 Why do you need that?

00:42:57.000 What happens if you get rid of all that other stuff? 0.99

00:42:59.000 Cut out the shitty food. 0.99

00:43:01.000 Cut out all the sugar. 1.00

00:43:02.000 Start drinking water.

00:43:03.000 No booze.

00:43:04.000 Let's get you exercising three times a week. 1.00

00:43:06.000 Let me see if you really need that Adderall shit. 0.99

00:43:08.000 How many vitamins do you take? 1.00

00:43:10.000 Do you take vitamins?

00:43:11.000 Do you eat healthy?

00:43:12.000 Are you drinking fruit juice and vegetable juice?

00:43:14.000 What kind of nutrients are you taking into your system, man? 0.99

00:43:17.000 And you're wondering why you don't have any fucking energy? 0.99

00:43:19.000 So you're just pouring... 1.00

00:43:20.000 Jet fuel into your tank and lighten the whole fucking thing on fire. 0.99

00:43:25.000 But, on the other hand, it's like things get done when you take speed. 0.99

00:43:29.000 You know, we were talking about Hitler the other day that...

00:43:32.000 Why wouldn't you be?

00:43:33.000 Why wouldn't we be?

00:43:34.000 We were talking about...

00:43:35.000 Who were we talking about?

00:43:36.000 Was it with Fahim?

00:43:37.000 I don't remember.

00:43:38.000 But we were talking about how Hitler... 0.68

00:43:41.000 There was a time where Hitler had come back from Yeah. 0.99

00:43:56.000 Yeah.

00:44:26.000 Maybe it's best to stay away from some drugs.

00:44:31.000 But, I mean, it's amazing how much productivity gets done because of caffeine, right?

00:44:38.000 Now, what is caffeine?

00:44:39.000 Caffeine is a very mild stimulant in terms of, you know, compared to Adderall or things along those lines. 1.00

00:44:44.000 But it is a fucking drug. 1.00

00:44:46.000 And it's a drug. 1.00

00:44:47.000 There's a goddamn drugstore on every corner. 1.00

00:44:50.000 Everyone's buying it. 1.00

00:44:51.000 It's in every gas station.

00:44:52.000 Everyone's fueling up.

00:44:53.000 You gotta fuel up early morning.

00:44:55.000 Yeah, caffeine.

00:44:55.000 You know, I drink decaffeinated coffee, which means I drink 5% of what—you know, I can drink eight cups of coffee and it makes a quarter cup.

00:45:05.000 Do you just like the taste?

00:45:07.000 I don't like the taste, but I like the social stuff.

00:45:10.000 I like having a hot, bitter thing in front of me.

00:45:14.000 Why don't you just have tea?

00:45:14.000 Yeah.

00:45:15.000 I'd have tea too.

00:45:16.000 I nervously drink.

00:45:20.000 It's a habit.

00:45:21.000 Like some people smoke.

00:45:23.000 I like to have seltzer.

00:45:24.000 I like to have decaf coffee or decaf tea or something like that.

00:45:28.000 Yeah, I like seltzer too.

00:45:29.000 It makes me feel like I'm doing something rather than drinking water.

00:45:32.000 I like sparkling water.

00:45:34.000 It's water with entertainment.

00:45:35.000 I like sparkling water with a little lime.

00:45:37.000 Ooh, I got a drink here.

00:45:38.000 I got a nice little drink.

00:45:39.000 Oh, you know what?

00:45:40.000 You take decaffeinated espresso, and then you pour carbonated water on top of that.

00:45:46.000 And then you've got bitter, bubbly...

00:45:48.000 You're drinking a potion.

00:45:49.000 You want that.

00:45:50.000 You want a potion.

00:45:51.000 Mmm.

00:45:51.000 A potion makes you feel like an adult.

00:45:53.000 Yeah.

00:45:53.000 Makes you feel like a grown-up.

00:45:54.000 This isn't Kool-Aid.

00:45:55.000 This is an adult beverage.

00:45:56.000 Exactly.

00:45:57.000 And when you're a non-drinker of alcohol, you have to work very hard to look like you're drinking like an adult. 0.86

00:46:03.000 So you've never fucked with alcohol at all? 0.74

00:46:05.000 No wine? 0.95

00:46:06.000 No nothing?

00:46:07.000 I mean, okay, I know I'm talking to someone who pays attention.

00:46:11.000 So you can say that there is alcohol in vanilla, there's alcohol in things like that.

00:46:17.000 So you can't say none.

00:46:19.000 Not psychoactive.

00:46:20.000 I never went to searched out.

00:46:24.000 It feels good sometimes.

00:46:25.000 And never even accidentally. 0.93

00:46:27.000 No one ever even, you know, fucked with me on that. 0.92

00:46:29.000 Really? 0.97

00:46:29.000 Well, that's good. 0.97

00:46:30.000 That's surprising.

00:46:31.000 Yeah.

00:46:32.000 That is surprising, given the circles you travel in.

00:46:34.000 I would imagine eventually someone would be like, enough is enough. 1.00

00:46:36.000 Get this guy fucked up. 1.00

00:46:38.000 This would be funny. 1.00

00:46:38.000 Yeah, this would be really funny. 1.00

00:46:40.000 Yeah.

00:46:40.000 It seems like someone would have, that would have fit in someone's sense of humor.

00:46:44.000 Some great work.

00:46:44.000 Well, who knows?

00:46:45.000 This may be the day.

00:46:46.000 No, I wouldn't do that, too.

00:46:47.000 I'm drinking your water.

00:46:48.000 If you really want to say the word, we'll open up the box of doom.

00:46:52.000 The box of doom.

00:46:52.000 How often do you do?

00:46:55.000 Psychedelics?

00:46:56.000 Yeah, psychedelics.

00:46:56.000 Not that often.

00:46:57.000 A couple times a year.

00:46:59.000 Oh, really?

00:47:00.000 I mean, we did mushrooms on a podcast a couple months ago, but that was a small dose.

00:47:04.000 But the tank is my friend.

00:47:06.000 You know, I tried that.

00:47:07.000 Let's talk about the sensory tank.

00:47:08.000 Please.

00:47:09.000 I have one right here.

00:47:10.000 I have one your size.

00:47:11.000 You can get in it.

00:47:12.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:13.000 I went to one of these places where you pay X amount of money and you go in.

00:47:17.000 Because my buddy, Tim Jenison, we did a movie called Tim's Vermeer where he painted a Vermeer in his garage.

00:47:22.000 And Tim was really into that.

00:47:24.000 I'll do anything Tim does.

00:47:25.000 I just love Tim.

00:47:27.000 And so I went and, you know, whenever you pay a few bucks and you go in and float in the tank.

00:47:32.000 And I was so ready.

00:47:35.000 This happens so much in my life.

00:47:37.000 I get so ready for a major change in my life.

00:47:40.000 The first time I wanted to become a vegan, I went out with a friend.

00:47:43.000 This was like in 1990. And there was a guy I was making fun of brutally, ripping him the fuck apart for his stupid eating, you know? 1.00

00:47:50.000 And I said, listen... 1.00

00:47:52.000 I want to go out with you to a restaurant, just eat vegetables, and I'm not going to interrupt you.

00:47:57.000 I'm not going to make fun of you.

00:47:59.000 You talk to me for three hours about all your Peter Singer stuff, all your ethical vegetarian stuff, and you convert me.

00:48:07.000 That's all I want you to do.

00:48:09.000 That was the reason I went out.

00:48:11.000 That was the reason I went out with him.

00:48:13.000 And I finished up the whole evening and I went, you know, I really respected your point of view until I understood it. 0.99

00:48:20.000 And motherfucker talked me out of doing what I wanted to do. 0.98

00:48:24.000 And so I got ready, man, with the isolation tank. 0.99

00:48:30.000 I said, this will be good.

00:48:31.000 He's talking about this.

00:48:32.000 I'm just going to go there.

00:48:33.000 Sensory deprivation.

00:48:35.000 I'll just let my mind wander.

00:48:36.000 And I went in there and it was just salty and I was bumping against walls.

00:48:40.000 Yeah, you need to get used to it.

00:48:42.000 It's like the meditation.

00:48:43.000 Try meditating once.

00:48:44.000 You're like, I couldn't concentrate. 0.70

00:48:46.000 Yeah, meditating once is useless.

00:48:47.000 Yes, yeah.

00:48:50.000 How often do you do the tank?

00:48:51.000 All the time.

00:48:52.000 I used to have one in my house.

00:48:53.000 Well, you're not in it now.

00:48:54.000 No.

00:48:54.000 Not all times, but often, I should say.

00:48:59.000 I used to have one in my house, and now I just have it here.

00:49:02.000 But it's a very valuable tool.

00:49:05.000 And you meditate as well?

00:49:06.000 Yeah.

00:49:07.000 I meditate.

00:49:07.000 I like to meditate before shows.

00:49:09.000 I've been doing a lot more lately.

00:49:12.000 But the tank is a great place to meditate as well because it's meditation squared.

00:49:17.000 It's meditation without any external stimulation.

00:49:20.000 So I can climb in there.

00:49:22.000 Do you follow breathing rules and stuff you would do on normal?

00:49:26.000 What kind of meditation do you do when you meditate?

00:49:27.000 What I've been doing lately is all I do is concentrate on my breath.

00:49:34.000 Other things get in there, but I just say, breathe in, breathe out.

00:49:38.000 Breathe in, breathe out.

00:49:40.000 Breathe in, breathe out.

00:49:42.000 And I just concentrate on long, slow, rhythmic breaths.

00:49:46.000 And I get myself into this weird state.

00:49:48.000 And You know, this will come in. 0.99

00:49:51.000 Oh, you got a fucking low front tire. 0.97

00:49:53.000 You got to get that filled. 0.99

00:49:54.000 Oh, this is...

00:49:55.000 You need your inspection sticker. 0.99

00:49:58.000 And the bullshit comes in, but I just breathe in, breathe out. 0.99

00:50:01.000 Force it out. 1.00

00:50:02.000 Force it out.

00:50:02.000 And after five or ten minutes of this, I can get to a nice state where I can just keep doing it, keep doing it.

00:50:08.000 But in the tank, it's very accentuated.

00:50:10.000 Because in the tank, I don't have to think about my butt in the seat, my hands on the table.

00:50:15.000 I don't have to think about anything else.

00:50:16.000 I'm just lying there.

00:50:17.000 What you're experiencing when you're talking about bumping into the walls, that's just a technique thing.

00:50:22.000 When you lie in it, right?

00:50:23.000 You get into the tank.

00:50:24.000 First of all, you need a big tank.

00:50:25.000 You're a giant guy.

00:50:27.000 There's a lot of those little pods.

00:50:29.000 Those are barely big enough for me.

00:50:31.000 It's for a guy like you.

00:50:32.000 You need a large one.

00:50:33.000 And you lie down in the tank, and then you put your hand on one wall and your hand on the other wall, and you let the water still.

00:50:39.000 Because there's going to be a lot of little ripples when you're floating because you're so buoyant.

00:50:43.000 There's a thousand pounds of Epsom salts in there and you're floating.

00:50:46.000 And it's easy to just kind of bounce back and forth.

00:50:48.000 So you put your hands there until they're steady.

00:50:51.000 And then once the ripples kind of stop, then you slowly bring your hands down.

00:50:56.000 And then when you slowly bring your hands down, you do it really slow so you're not making any ripples.

00:51:01.000 And then lay there.

00:51:02.000 And then you can be in the exact same position for hours.

00:51:05.000 And that's how, it's a technique.

00:51:08.000 Just you have to center yourself.

00:51:09.000 How long do you do?

00:51:10.000 Two hours is what I like.

00:51:11.000 Two hours.

00:51:12.000 I'll do an hour if I'm in a rush.

00:51:14.000 And I have a...

00:51:16.000 Although rushing through it is...

00:51:18.000 Yeah, I mean it's not a rush.

00:51:20.000 It's just an hour.

00:51:22.000 If I can't spend any more time than an hour, but I have a tape recorder that's voice-activated, and it's Velcro, and so I can stick it up inside the thing. 0.99

00:51:30.000 So if I have an idea, which I do sometimes, sometimes I have this temptation, fuck, I've got to get out of here. 0.97

00:51:35.000 I've got to write this down. 0.98

00:51:36.000 I can just say it, and the tape recorder will pick it up.

00:51:40.000 Have there been brilliant stuff, you said?

00:51:42.000 No, nothing.

00:51:42.000 I've never used it once, but it's there.

00:51:45.000 You haven't gotten out of the tank and had satisfaction.

00:51:48.000 You know that Keith Richards thing, right?

00:51:50.000 No, but he went to sleep.

00:51:52.000 Really?

00:51:52.000 He had this sound-activated recorder that he got by the side of the bed and his guitar, and he went to sleep one night, woke up the next morning, there on the tape recorder, oh, there was some voice activation in the night.

00:52:06.000 He played it.

00:52:07.000 It was satisfaction.

00:52:09.000 You haven't gotten that yet?

00:52:10.000 No, I haven't had that yet.

00:52:11.000 My friend works at a school in Connecticut where his kids go, where Keith Richards' kids go. 0.99

00:52:16.000 And Keith Richards will ride on a bike to school with a fucking bandana on. 1.00

00:52:21.000 And my friend's like, holy shit, that's Keith Richards. 1.00

00:52:24.000 He's just kind of hanging around with normal people. 0.99

00:52:27.000 And he said it freaks you out.

00:52:29.000 When you see him, you're like, what? 0.99

00:52:30.000 That's fucking Keith Richards? 0.99

00:52:32.000 He just hangs out. 1.00

00:52:34.000 He's a giant superstar, but he drifts into the real world.

00:52:38.000 And it just freaks people out.

00:52:40.000 Yeah.

00:52:42.000 I mean, I only met Keith Richards in groups of people that wasn't really bicycling into your...

00:52:50.000 But still, it's so amazing.

00:52:53.000 Surreal.

00:52:53.000 So surreal.

00:52:54.000 He's an epic human.

00:52:55.000 Yeah, he is.

00:52:56.000 The voice recorder thing is new.

00:52:57.000 That's why I haven't had any...

00:52:58.000 It's a new idea that I have because there's times that I did have to get out.

00:53:01.000 But the solution...

00:53:02.000 To this team thing and the separation of America and getting more polarized, that's going to be solved by Joe and the Tank at some point.

00:53:11.000 We can count on that?

00:53:13.000 No.

00:53:13.000 Now that you've got the recording?

00:53:14.000 I think we're going to solve it ourselves.

00:53:15.000 I think we're going to solve it ourselves through just time. 0.91

00:53:19.000 I think as we're getting back to Pinker, we were talking about Pinker earlier that he gets so much shit for saying that things are better now than ever. 0.53

00:53:26.000 It doesn't dismiss horrific acts that take place or terrible things that are going on. 0.53

00:53:30.000 And it doesn't say that the battle is over.

00:53:31.000 I mean, this is one of the things that I would push, in my little microcosm, push for so hard in Penn and Teller.

00:53:41.000 Teller and I would have real trouble just crossing a finish line. 0.98

00:53:45.000 I would just say to him, you know, Teller, we've done five seasons of bullshit. 0.98

00:53:51.000 And it went, well, let's go out, the two of us, have coffee and donuts, and let's just say, wow, we did that. 0.98

00:53:58.000 And then push ahead for the next thing.

00:54:01.000 And I would just, I just think that Pinker is like that with me.

00:54:05.000 Pinker's like saying, you know, human beings, we're doing okay.

00:54:09.000 We're doing okay.

00:54:10.000 We've done some really good things.

00:54:12.000 Now let's get back to work.

00:54:13.000 We're most certainly doing better than ever before, and I think that's an accumulative thing.

00:54:18.000 If we don't blow everything to Kingdom Come, and if we don't destroy the environment, if those two things, the two enormous ifs, we're in very good shape.

00:54:28.000 The thing that blew my mind about Pinker in that book, Better Angels, blew my mind.

00:54:36.000 I think?

00:54:58.000 You know, early part of the 20th century, all these authors and artists and all these guys were saying, Hemingway and stuff, we're going to stop war by writing about war and writing about how bad it was, and we're going to give empathy for other people and we'll understand this,

00:55:16.000 and we're going to really, with our art, make an effort to make humanity better. 0.97

00:55:21.000 What a jack-off bullshit thing to do. 0.99

00:55:25.000 I mean, can you imagine something more that's just twiddling your dick than saying that, oh, I'm going to do art, I'm going to write, and it's going to change the world. 1.00

00:55:34.000 My poetry. 0.98

00:55:35.000 And then Pinker's book says, why is all this stuff getting better so fast?

00:55:40.000 We think it may be art and it may be empathy.

00:55:45.000 And it turns out that all this stuff people were saying about, you know, we can change how people see warfare and how people see one another.

00:55:56.000 And that's what scares me so much about...

00:56:00.000 How some people speak of, and I think it's because I don't understand it.

00:56:05.000 Usually when I'm against something, it means I don't understand it.

00:56:08.000 But when they talk about cultural appropriation, cultural appropriation seems to me to be the greatest thing you can possibly do.

00:56:15.000 To see the world through the eyes of someone who grew up differently than you.

00:56:20.000 To even try to do that.

00:56:22.000 For even for us to pretend right now to be a, you know, white nationalist.

00:56:29.000 Even trying to do that seems like it's a really good thing for us.

00:56:33.000 To pretend?

00:56:34.000 Just to get into their head?

00:56:35.000 Just to try to fantasize what it's like to be, for instance, a African-American transgender person.

00:56:44.000 Man, if we try to do that, we're writing a piece of art and we try to see ourselves from that point of view.

00:56:50.000 I'm not ourselves.

00:56:51.000 See the world from that point of view.

00:56:53.000 That seems like nothing but healthy.

00:56:56.000 It seems like that takes you out of your identification.

00:56:59.000 Well, I think there's a lot of what we're calling cultural appropriation that is really people trying to tell other people what to do.

00:57:07.000 Because people enjoy telling people they can't do that anymore and getting angry at those people.

00:57:12.000 They enjoy it.

00:57:13.000 They enjoy pushing buttons.

00:57:14.000 You give them a rock and a window, they want to throw that rock through the window.

00:57:18.000 This is a natural part of being a person. 0.99

00:57:20.000 And if you see a girl with hoop earrings, like, bitch, take those earrings off. 1.00

00:57:23.000 Those are for Latinos, or those are for this, or those are for that. 0.99

00:57:26.000 And the argument is so often not even based historically, like the earring thing. 1.00

00:57:31.000 Like, fuck, man. 0.99

00:57:32.000 What are you, from Sumer? 1.00

00:57:33.000 Like, that's the oldest known hoop earring.

00:57:35.000 Yeah.

00:57:36.000 Are you from Babylon?

00:57:37.000 It's also what, I don't know if this is, this is not Pinker, this is Noah Harari, who talks about, when you're talking about cultural stuff, how far back you going?

00:57:49.000 I mean, there are no tomatoes in Italy.

00:57:51.000 Right, sure.

00:57:52.000 Tomatoes are not indigenous Italy.

00:57:54.000 Pasta came from China.

00:57:55.000 Yeah, and potatoes aren't from Ireland.

00:57:58.000 They don't start there, you know?

00:57:59.000 So you have to keep going back. 0.99

00:58:01.000 There was a great, you know, Paul Simon got so much shit for Graceland, you know? 0.99

00:58:07.000 And David Byrne got so much shit for stuff. 0.98

00:58:11.000 And there's this wonderful thing in David Byrne's book, How Music Works, which is a fabulous book, where he doesn't ever address this Picking things from other cultures? 0.98

00:58:22.000 Ever.

00:58:22.000 But he talks very strongly about the African kinds of music and the influences they have from other places.

00:58:31.000 You know, because there is not a culture other than the whole world, especially not now.

00:58:39.000 You might be able to have made the argument 200 years ago.

00:58:42.000 The thing is, though, that people enjoy cultures.

00:58:46.000 So if that is the case and everything does assimilate and becomes one big gray mass, we're worried that we're going to lose Indian food, right?

00:58:53.000 We're worried that we're going to lose...

00:58:55.000 I have no worry of that at all.

00:58:57.000 No?

00:58:57.000 I have no worry.

00:58:58.000 Because I think that me loving Sun Ra...

00:59:02.000 Even though I'm not African-American, and me loving Lenny Bruce, even though I'm not urban and identify as Jewish, I think that loving these kind of cultures should not be based on an accident of birth.

00:59:16.000 The loving thing is one thing.

00:59:18.000 I think the real fear of cultural appropriations is that people will take on those things as their own.

00:59:23.000 Like, there's a gentleman, I'm trying to remember his name, he's a famous Mexican chef, but he's not Mexican.

00:59:30.000 But he cooks Mexican food.

00:59:31.000 He cooks it in Chicago.

00:59:33.000 Walt Bayless?

00:59:33.000 Is that his name?

00:59:34.000 Something Bayless?

00:59:36.000 Rick Bayless.

00:59:37.000 This guy has an undeniable passion for Mexican cuisine. 0.99

00:59:42.000 I mean, he fucking loves it. 0.94

00:59:44.000 He has a couple different restaurants where he cooks Mexican food and he was getting protested and people were furious at him. 0.98

01:00:09.000 I mean, speaks with incredible passion about this.

01:00:14.000 They were deciding that he's a white guy.

01:00:16.000 And he shouldn't be able to do this.

01:00:17.000 Shouldn't be able to sell this.

01:00:18.000 Shouldn't be able to... 1.00

01:00:19.000 Like, you fucking assholes. 1.00

01:00:20.000 Like, this is the guy. 1.00

01:00:22.000 He's helping everyone recognize the beauty of this much maligned food.

01:00:28.000 When people think about Mexican cuisine, he is one of the rare people in Western culture that talks about it like it's five-star cuisine. 0.96

01:00:36.000 So many people talk about, oh, I love street tacos and fucking, I'm a big fan of quesadillas. 0.94

01:00:41.000 No, this guy's talking about... 0.99

01:00:42.000 We're good to go.

01:00:59.000 Falls in love with another culture. 0.98

01:01:01.000 I don't see why that isn't more beautiful.

01:01:04.000 That's what I'm looking for.

01:01:07.000 Well, that's Steven Seagal.

01:01:08.000 He moved to Japan and became a master.

01:01:10.000 Before he became kind of silly, he was one of the very first guys to ever teach Aikido in a dojo in Japan that wasn't Japanese.

01:01:19.000 I think he actually was the first. 0.92

01:01:21.000 I think he was the first American to ever run a dojo in Japan.

01:01:24.000 So now...

01:01:26.000 Okay, getting me on psychedelics is very easy compared to getting me to really dig Steven Seagal.

01:01:31.000 You don't have to dig him.

01:01:32.000 I mean, I'm not sure I do, although I do appreciate his first movie, Above the Law.

01:01:36.000 I appreciate what he...

01:01:38.000 He likes his prepositions. 0.99

01:01:40.000 He's a silly fella. 1.00

01:01:42.000 Silly fella, for sure. 1.00

01:01:43.000 Many of us are. 0.98

01:01:45.000 But what he did do is he learned Aikido at a very, very high level, like undeniably.

01:01:52.000 And he was teaching it in Japan.

01:01:54.000 He spoke perfect Japanese.

01:01:55.000 And he was a very rare guy, you know?

01:01:58.000 Now, you know, he became a Hollywood guy and movies and who knows what the fuck else.

01:02:02.000 And he became enormous, you know, physically. 0.65

01:02:05.000 He got fat. 0.99

01:02:05.000 And, you know, he's kind of silly now. 0.99

01:02:07.000 But at one point in time, that guy was as legit as it gets. 0.91

01:02:11.000 Isn't that always true?

01:02:13.000 I'm going to completely change the subject, if I may.

01:02:18.000 I want to talk about when you came on my radio show with Phil Plait about the moon landing.

01:02:24.000 What I think is fascinating about this, about clubs and stuff, is I know, I've read here and there that you've gone back on a lot of that and your conspiracy stuff.

01:02:39.000 But that But I can explain that, too.

01:02:42.000 I don't know what I'm talking about.

01:02:43.000 You know, this is the thing.

01:02:45.000 I have zero astrophysics education.

01:02:48.000 Zero.

01:02:49.000 I don't know anything about whether or not it's possible to put people on the moon. 0.89

01:02:54.000 I do know fuckery, and I do know teams, and I do understand when people are bullshitting people.

01:03:00.000 And I think there's a lot of that.

01:03:01.000 With a lot of the NASA stuff, a lot of the older stuff in particular.

01:03:05.000 There was a lot of manipulation of images and putting things online that may not have actually really happened because it was press releases.

01:03:14.000 There's an image of Michael Collins from Gemini 15 that's a very clear image of him doing a simulation, like in a studio with straps and harnesses.

01:03:25.000 And then someone from NASA, or someone...

01:03:28.000 Put that exact same image, blacked out the background, and used it as a photo of a spacewalk.

01:03:35.000 It's not real, you know, but they sold it as real. 0.96

01:03:38.000 There was some overzealous shit like that, that if you're conspiratorially minded, you might say, ah! 0.99

01:03:45.000 Once you start lying... 1.00

01:03:48.000 Yes.

01:03:48.000 Things get slippery.

01:03:49.000 It's the Area 51 and stuff.

01:03:51.000 Yes.

01:03:51.000 We know they lied.

01:03:52.000 Yes. 1.00

01:03:53.000 Like motherfuckers. 1.00

01:03:54.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:03:54.000 And that's the problem. 1.00

01:03:55.000 But I just wanted to compliment you.

01:03:57.000 And I just also think this is really interesting. 0.99

01:04:00.000 So Joe Rogan believes this crazy shit we didn't go to the moon. 0.99

01:04:03.000 I know Joe Rogan. 1.00

01:04:04.000 We're on a radio show together.

01:04:07.000 He's a good guy. 1.00

01:04:08.000 We did Fear Factor, but he believes this shit. 1.00

01:04:10.000 Let's have him talk to someone who's real. 0.99

01:04:12.000 So I call Phil Platt, who I don't know that well, right? 1.00

01:04:15.000 But he's the bad astronomer and he knows this shit. 0.99

01:04:17.000 And I say, I really want you to come on my radio show and just talk to Joe Rogan about moon landing. 0.99

01:04:26.000 And Phil says, no problem.

01:04:28.000 We'll just go on there.

01:04:29.000 We'll set them straight.

01:04:30.000 And I go, I just want to warn you, have your ducks in a row because Joe's really good.

01:04:35.000 And he goes, well, Joe's a comic, right?

01:04:38.000 Yeah.

01:04:39.000 And that's your problem because Joe's better at talking than you.

01:04:43.000 Joe knows when the commercials are coming.

01:04:46.000 Joe knows how to make a joke and Joe knows also how to set you up and take you down.

01:04:51.000 Oh, no, no, no.

01:04:52.000 It'll be no problem.

01:04:53.000 I said, you understand that he's smart.

01:04:56.000 He's a comic, right?

01:04:57.000 Yeah.

01:04:58.000 Not an astrophysicist, but you understand that he's smart and he's also, you are going into his form.

01:05:05.000 We're going to be on radio.

01:05:06.000 This guy has done a lot of radio.

01:05:09.000 This guy's talked to a lot of people.

01:05:11.000 So just have all your facts in line.

01:05:14.000 And then we're sitting there, because, you know, you were on the phone, and Godot, who's on my podcast with me too, sitting across from me, and we're listening.

01:05:23.000 And you come in, and you come in humble, and charming, and sexy, and with perfect timing on everything. 0.98

01:05:33.000 And Phil Places, I go, oh man, Joe is wrong, and Joe is gonna fucking win! 0.99

01:05:41.000 Ha ha ha! 0.98

01:05:43.000 And I set this up so that it would be fair.

01:05:50.000 My whole thing of doing this, the way I billboarded it was, I'm just going to have two guys talk from two points of view.

01:05:57.000 I'm not supposed to commit that.

01:05:58.000 I don't know if you remember, but the whole show ends, and I go, oh, by the way, we did land on the moon.

01:06:05.000 And just try to do this final authority thing.

01:06:08.000 And Phil said afterwards, I said, yes!

01:06:11.000 And it's just that idea that you can't, you know, his idea was there's the science team that's right, and then there's this goofy comic.

01:06:20.000 And trying to get Phil Plait to understand that a goofy comic was not a goofy comic, and I believe that the only thing that the SATs truly test is how good you will be as a comedian.

01:06:35.000 That kind of verbal, it was a wonderful thing to listen to.

01:06:38.000 It was wonderful to listen to someone who I believe absolutely was 100% wrong, who was just so skilled and so moral and so thoughtful and so humble.

01:06:49.000 You had everything going for you that I respect, except you didn't happen to be right.

01:06:56.000 Well, we don't know what happened.

01:06:58.000 We assume that what we see is what happened.

01:07:02.000 We assume that what the scientists tell us was what happened.

01:07:04.000 We assume that what NASA told us was what happened.

01:07:07.000 When you say, I know this happened, You're not always correct.

01:07:13.000 Exactly.

01:07:14.000 You're oftentimes correct.

01:07:15.000 I know Kennedy got assassinated in Dallas.

01:07:17.000 I've seen the video.

01:07:19.000 I know he got assassinated in Dallas.

01:07:20.000 I don't know if Lee Harvey Oswald did it.

01:07:22.000 I don't know.

01:07:23.000 I assume he was involved.

01:07:25.000 It seems like he was.

01:07:26.000 Yeah.

01:07:27.000 Was there other people involved, too?

01:07:28.000 I assume there were.

01:07:29.000 And one of the reasons why I assume there were was the magic bullet, the guy who got hit with the ricochet under the overpass.

01:07:35.000 I do want you to know...

01:07:37.000 That I made the shot with a man like Kirk O'Connor.

01:07:39.000 Oh yeah, it could be made. 0.99

01:07:40.000 Oh, that's horseshit. 0.98

01:07:41.000 Listen, I've talked about that in length. 0.99

01:07:44.000 And also the head goes towards that.

01:07:46.000 Yeah, well, there's a lot of things.

01:07:47.000 There's a lot of things.

01:07:50.000 We could, you know, go over the Kennedy assassination.

01:07:53.000 There's a lot of things.

01:07:54.000 I'm not on one school or another.

01:07:55.000 Wait a minute, wait a minute.

01:07:56.000 Are we going to solve the polarization in America, or are we going to solve the Kennedy assassination, or are we going to solve the moon landing?

01:08:03.000 All of them.

01:08:03.000 Or you want to do all of them?

01:08:04.000 Yeah.

01:08:05.000 Okay.

01:08:05.000 I just want to know what our goals were.

01:08:06.000 The moon landing is a conspiracy theories dream.

01:08:10.000 A conspiracy theorist dream.

01:08:12.000 Because it's got everything in place.

01:08:14.000 It's got this incredible technological achievement.

01:08:18.000 It's got these three guys that look incredible.

01:08:23.000 We're good to go.

01:09:05.000 And the distance.

01:09:06.000 Whereas before, I wasn't being honest with myself and I wasn't being honest about the subject.

01:09:10.000 I do not know whether or not people went to the moon.

01:09:14.000 I was pretending that I knew that people didn't go to the moon.

01:09:17.000 And I was arguing it that way.

01:09:19.000 I was on a team.

01:09:20.000 I was on team. 1.00

01:09:22.000 It's bullshit. 1.00

01:09:23.000 We didn't go to the moon. 1.00

01:09:26.000 You really can't do that accurately.

01:09:29.000 It can't be done.

01:09:31.000 You can say, this is what's interesting.

01:09:33.000 This is what I find curious.

01:09:35.000 This is what's weird.

01:09:37.000 In fact, there's not a single technological achievement from 1969 that's not cheaper, easier, and faster to reproduce today.

01:09:43.000 Going to the moon.

01:09:44.000 Like, it's one of the rare things in life.

01:09:46.000 Still doesn't mean it didn't happen.

01:09:48.000 Like, Occam's razor is a slippery thing. 0.97

01:09:51.000 Because there's weird shit that happens. 0.92

01:09:53.000 And you gotta take that into account. 0.89

01:09:54.000 Like, there's no absolutes.

01:09:55.000 There's not one thing.

01:09:57.000 You can say, well, there is a rule, and this rule must be followed, and here's that rule.

01:10:00.000 It doesn't work that way.

01:10:02.000 The world is made of weird stuff.

01:10:03.000 And I'm also...

01:10:06.000 The idea, there's a thing that's changed.

01:10:09.000 There was an article in the Times about this, and you might have even been mentioned in it.

01:10:14.000 There's a playful space of conspiracy theories.

01:10:21.000 It's taken me a long time to understand.

01:10:24.000 My daughter is 14. And she talks about, you know, her father did a show called Bullshit. 0.97

01:10:32.000 And she talks about how she loves conspiracy theories. 0.94

01:10:35.000 And this is from Paul McCartney's Dead, to We Didn't Land on the Moon, to all those things.

01:10:40.000 But she sees it, which is so hard for me to understand.

01:10:44.000 She sees it as not impacting reality.

01:10:48.000 But it's a playful intellectual exercise.

01:10:53.000 I don't know what's going on, but there's this wonderful article in the Times, and you were mentioned there too, but there's also another guy who does it, who will do this, to use a cliche, I can't think of a better one, going down the rabbit hole of conspiracy stuff,

01:11:09.000 playing around.

01:11:11.000 With the logic that almost feels like a mathematical thing or a pure philosophical thing or angels dancing on the head of a pin thing.

01:11:21.000 And there's a quality that you have learned that my daughter has learned indirectly, I think, from you through other people doing this of there is a playful space We discuss how we share our reality that is happening in the conspiracy theory art form.

01:11:50.000 And the conspiracy theory art form is now seeming to me to be more like rap or rock and roll.

01:11:59.000 It's just a form where you play around with this kind of thing.

01:12:05.000 And I am so...

01:12:08.000 I'm so literal-minded.

01:12:09.000 I'm so verbal-minded.

01:12:10.000 You know, Bob Dylan's easy for me.

01:12:12.000 The stones are hard.

01:12:14.000 You know, zap is easy, 20th century classical is easy, but just funk is hard for me.

01:12:19.000 And it's the same kind of thing here.

01:12:21.000 It's really easy for me to say we are doing the old-fashioned scientific inquiry, and this is the way falsifiable.

01:12:32.000 But there is something happening in our thinking that's really interesting that I had to have my daughter explain to me and the New York Times after I already knew you and watched you do it.

01:12:43.000 Well, you've always been a champion of science and reason, right?

01:12:47.000 And conspiracy theories for the most part fly in the face of science and reason. 0.89

01:12:50.000 And you don't want to be a buffoon. 0.99

01:12:52.000 No one wants to be a fool. 0.99

01:12:53.000 But there's a poetic thing happening. 0.95

01:12:55.000 But it's tricky. 0.95

01:12:56.000 And people don't want to be a fool. 0.99

01:12:58.000 Well, I'm a professional fool. 1.00

01:12:59.000 I don't mind being a fool. 1.00

01:13:01.000 And being self-deprecating and being a moron is part of being a comic. 1.00

01:13:05.000 It's fun. 0.99

01:13:07.000 The conspiracy theory world went south for me when I did a television show about it.

01:13:12.000 I did that Joe Rogan Questions Everything show, and I spent six, seven months doing this show, and at the end of it, I was like, okay, I get it. 0.98

01:13:19.000 This is a bunch of unfuckable white guys. 0.98

01:13:22.000 That's what it really is. 1.00

01:13:23.000 That's what I decided.

01:13:24.000 I had a bit about it.

01:13:26.000 I said, the one thing you don't find when you're looking for Bigfoot, black people. 1.00

01:13:31.000 You're more likely to find Bigfoot than you are black guys looking for Bigfoot. 1.00

01:13:34.000 It is a bunch of unfuckable white dudes out camping. 1.00

01:13:37.000 And listen, did you hear that? 1.00

01:13:38.000 What is that? 0.63

01:13:39.000 You know, it's like, it's nonsense.

01:13:41.000 Like, you're wrapped up in this idea that there's a mystery.

01:13:43.000 And there's a something, there's a thing, a quality about human beings where we want to uncover secrets.

01:13:48.000 We want to be the person that finds out the truth. 1.00

01:13:51.000 Because then, your miserable, shitty fucking life now doesn't matter. 1.00

01:13:56.000 The fucking aliens are real, man! 1.00

01:13:58.000 They're here! 1.00

01:13:59.000 And aha! 0.99

01:14:02.000 One of the best feelings we can get, probably better than coming, is that feeling of, aha, I understand.

01:14:09.000 I've gotten a revelation.

01:14:11.000 And we see this all the time, detective shows, Sherlock Holmes, nothing to do with police work.

01:14:20.000 But there is a feeling that, wouldn't it be nice if in this hour...

01:14:25.000 I were able to figure something out.

01:14:27.000 Because if you want to understand string theory, you're not going to do it an hour.

01:14:31.000 You're not going to do it ever.

01:14:32.000 I don't think those guys understand it even if they teach it.

01:14:35.000 Precisely.

01:14:35.000 Let's take an easier one.

01:14:37.000 Let's take a candle flame.

01:14:38.000 You're never going to understand that.

01:14:41.000 Studying that forever.

01:14:42.000 And there's an area where conspiracy theories are exercising the muscles of logic, exercising the muscles of skepticism, Playing around with the haiku of if,

01:14:59.000 then, if, then.

01:15:01.000 Playing around with what we feel about the government and other people and stuff like that.

01:15:14.000 We're good to go.

01:15:27.000 And let's not even talk about whether we went to the moon or not.

01:15:30.000 What's coming out of your style of inquiry on that kind of thing, your style of skepticism, is just fascinating and beautiful.

01:15:40.000 And I see the conspiracy thing as not so much a breaking down, which I used to see it as, a breaking down of science and reason, but I see it as rather a creation of a new form of poetry.

01:15:54.000 That's weird.

01:15:55.000 I don't know if I agree with you.

01:15:57.000 My daughter just says, you know, I really like conspiracy theories.

01:16:01.000 And I say to her, you know, Paul McCartney is still alive.

01:16:05.000 Right, but you know she's 14 and you're Penn Jillette, so she's rebelling.

01:16:10.000 You understand that, right?

01:16:12.000 You're a parent.

01:16:13.000 You know what it's like. 0.99

01:16:15.000 You may have just told me something really important and I was too dirt dumb to realize. 0.95

01:16:20.000 It's like Neil Gaiman's daughter coming in all gothed out and Neil saying to her, I invented this. 0.96

01:16:28.000 You can't do this.

01:16:29.000 This is not the way you can rebel.

01:16:31.000 You can't rebel against me like this.

01:16:34.000 You can't do it with black hair and eye shadow.

01:16:36.000 You can't do it.

01:16:38.000 But yeah.

01:16:39.000 Yeah.

01:16:40.000 Well, kids, you know, they find their own way and they want to express themselves.

01:16:46.000 You know?

01:16:47.000 They want to exert power over their world.

01:16:49.000 But did you see that article that you were mentioning?

01:16:51.000 No, I did not.

01:16:52.000 I try not to read anything that I mentioned in.

01:16:55.000 Me too.

01:16:55.000 I briefly do oftentimes and I'm like...

01:16:58.000 I try to never read anything with my name in it because it's not written for us.

01:17:02.000 Right, exactly.

01:17:03.000 And I'll tell you the exact moment that happened to me that was so great.

01:17:07.000 It was in the 80s.

01:17:09.000 We were on Broadway.

01:17:10.000 And the Coen brothers were just starting to do movies.

01:17:14.000 And I was really interested in them.

01:17:17.000 And...

01:17:18.000 I had like an hour free, which when I was doing Stern and Letterman and Saturday Night Live and on Broadway, I never had an hour free. 0.90

01:17:26.000 And there was a magazine, like Vanity Fair or something, who cares the fuck what it was, and it said what the Coen brothers are really like.

01:17:32.000 What it's like to work with the Coen brothers. 0.80

01:17:34.000 And I said, I never read magazines.

01:17:36.000 I'm going to buy this.

01:17:37.000 I'll learn a little bit about the Coen brothers.

01:17:38.000 I'm up to our office, you know, it's like the Brill Building, you know.

01:17:42.000 Lorne Michaels, sit in my office, open it up, what the Coen Brothers like, turn to that page and said, if you want to know what the Coen Brothers are like, it's like hanging out with Penn and Teller.

01:17:54.000 And I went...

01:17:57.000 What?

01:17:59.000 What?

01:18:04.000 How is that even real?

01:18:05.000 I closed the magazine, put it aside, and they were going on comparing it, and I went, I have no information on this.

01:18:12.000 None.

01:18:13.000 There's no way I can access it.

01:18:14.000 And in that moment I went, oh wait a minute, when it says Penn Jillette in an article or in a book, There's no way I can understand that.

01:18:25.000 Maybe others can.

01:18:27.000 So when it says in the article, when Joe Rogan does conspiracy stuff, you can't understand that.

01:18:36.000 It's like Mike Nesmith said to me, the major problem with talking to Jimi Hendrix was he never heard Jimi Hendrix.

01:18:43.000 He never saw Jimi Hendrix on stage.

01:18:45.000 He couldn't.

01:18:47.000 So you are the one person That using Joe Rogan as an example, you know, well, you know, kind of a broletariat, kind of a, he does this bro culture, this is Joe.

01:18:56.000 You can't understand that.

01:18:57.000 You have no idea what that means because you're an individual.

01:19:01.000 Well, it's also people are trying to encapsulate you by those brief moments.

01:19:04.000 They might have seen a video or heard you talk about this.

01:19:06.000 But it means something to other people.

01:19:07.000 Sure.

01:19:08.000 It means something.

01:19:08.000 And it also, you can easily categorize someone and put them in this box and now I've defined that.

01:19:15.000 Oh, I know what that is.

01:19:16.000 I've seen one of those before.

01:19:17.000 It's like hanging out with Penn Jillette.

01:19:19.000 Yeah.

01:19:19.000 It's also part of your job.

01:19:21.000 Part of your job, one of the things you've created is you've created something in the culture that means the New York Times can say Joe Rogan and their people reading that know what that means.

01:19:34.000 But there's no way Joe Rogan can know what that means.

01:19:36.000 No.

01:19:37.000 You can pretend.

01:19:38.000 Right.

01:19:38.000 Or you could be like Trump and get mad about it.

01:19:40.000 Yeah.

01:19:42.000 You know where the rubber hits the road with conspiracy theories right now?

01:19:45.000 Jeffrey Epstein.

01:19:47.000 Oh, yeah.

01:19:47.000 That's where the rubber hits the road.

01:19:48.000 That's where people that are not conspiratorially minded are like, wait, what the fuck is going on? 0.98

01:19:55.000 All the cameras were bad? 0.98

01:19:56.000 Oh, the guy was on suicide watch?

01:19:58.000 He tried to commit suicide?

01:20:00.000 And then they're like, well, don't do that again.

01:20:02.000 And then he did it?

01:20:04.000 Like, if you talk to people that have been locked up, they take away everything, man.

01:20:08.000 You've been on suicide watch? 0.99

01:20:09.000 They fucking take away everything. 1.00

01:20:11.000 Mm-hmm. 1.00

01:20:11.000 And you find this guy's got a broken neck, and he hung himself. 1.00

01:20:14.000 Like, how?

01:20:15.000 How did he hang himself?

01:20:17.000 Can we see the video footage?

01:20:18.000 Oh, sorry, the cameras are broken. 0.97

01:20:19.000 I think hanging yourself is wicked hard.

01:20:22.000 It's not easy. 1.00

01:20:23.000 It's not easy when you're in a jail, and they take away all your shit. 0.99

01:20:28.000 Have you been to jail? 1.00

01:20:29.000 No.

01:20:29.000 No, I've never been to jail.

01:20:30.000 I was only in jail overnight, but...

01:20:32.000 I mean, if you're on suicide watch, man, they make it hard for you to kill yourself.

01:20:35.000 They watch you.

01:20:37.000 Is that what suicide watch means?

01:20:39.000 Yes, they watch you.

01:20:40.000 They watch you so you can't kill yourself again.

01:20:42.000 But they watch you every 30 minutes? 1.00

01:20:44.000 What the fuck was the psychologist thinking that took this guy off suicide watch literally a couple of weeks after he tried to commit suicide? 1.00

01:20:51.000 If someone tried to commit suicide, you know, speaking as a guy who's had friends commit suicide, They're fucking thinking about it for years, man. 1.00

01:21:00.000 Some of them, they go back and forth day to day. 0.99

01:21:02.000 Some of them.

01:21:03.000 Some of them just do.

01:21:04.000 Yes, some of them just do that. 1.00

01:21:05.000 But when someone does actively try it, they're not going to just be fine while they're in fucking prison, awaiting trial for having sex with kids. 0.99

01:21:15.000 It seems like Jeffrey Epstein's life was going to get really worse from what it was a few months before. 0.99

01:21:22.000 Could be.

01:21:23.000 Or other people's lives are going to get really worse because Jeffrey Epstein's now in jail and they're digging deep into his past.

01:21:28.000 And, well, I only flew with him 26 times.

01:21:31.000 26 times.

01:21:32.000 It ain't a lot of times to fly with a guy.

01:21:34.000 I don't understand what the big deal is.

01:21:36.000 We flew in a jet.

01:21:38.000 We rode a bus together.

01:21:39.000 He was on the back of my bike.

01:21:41.000 Do you know people that know Jeffrey Epstein?

01:21:44.000 Yes.

01:21:44.000 Yeah.

01:21:44.000 Yeah, I do.

01:21:45.000 Me too.

01:21:45.000 And a lot of them, it really was that.

01:21:50.000 Talk to him.

01:21:51.000 Well, there's many people that feel like he was an agent and that he was trying to compromise people.

01:21:57.000 And that's one of the things about this whole Lolita Island thing is that they would compromise people.

01:22:02.000 They would compromise people by having a bunch of young girls who are very sexy, who were hired to go and flirt and maybe even have sex with people, and that these people were young. 1.00

01:22:12.000 These girls were like 17, underage, perhaps underage some places, perhaps not underage other places, but incredibly embarrassing for the people.

01:22:22.000 An agent for whom?

01:22:24.000 Who knows?

01:22:25.000 I mean, there's a lot of thoughts, but that's one of the things about when he got arrested.

01:22:29.000 Was it the prosecutor or whoever it was that cut him the deal?

01:22:33.000 Literally was quoted as saying, I was told he's above my pay grade and that he was intelligence.

01:22:40.000 That's the quote.

01:22:41.000 Really?

01:22:41.000 The intelligence thing?

01:22:42.000 Try to find that quote.

01:22:43.000 Yeah, try to find that quote.

01:22:44.000 Yes, the guy said this was when he gave him a lenient sentence many years ago.

01:22:49.000 Was it 2012 or something?

01:22:51.000 No one seems to know how he made his money. 0.99

01:22:54.000 Well, the fucking $70 million penthouse that he had in Manhattan was given to him. 0.99

01:22:58.000 Right. 1.00

01:22:59.000 Given to him.

01:22:59.000 Yeah.

01:22:59.000 Who the fuck gives someone a $70 million house?

01:23:02.000 Well, I was kind of hoping you would to me. 1.00

01:23:04.000 I don't have one.

01:23:05.000 Okay.

01:23:06.000 If I have a bunch of them, I'll give you one.

01:23:07.000 I gotta run.

01:23:08.000 You gotta go now?

01:23:11.000 I was here to get a $70 million house.

01:23:13.000 You were told wrong. 0.99

01:23:17.000 I've talked to people many times that work for intelligence agencies, and there's a lot of weird shit that they do. 0.55

01:23:26.000 And one of the things that they do to compromise people is they get them involved in weird stuff that could be very bad for them. 0.96

01:23:35.000 If it comes out, and then they have influence over this person, and if you got a guy with a voracious sexual appetite, I mean, there's a few of those fellas out there, and you know, hey man, I'm out of office now, I'm just fucking hanging out, having a good time with Jeffrey, and we're just flying around. 0.56

01:23:51.000 I mean, come on, man. 0.85

01:23:53.000 It's highly likely.

01:23:54.000 One of the guys that I know that knew him was also a freak. 0.99

01:23:57.000 Like a sexual freak. 0.99

01:23:59.000 And I'm like, okay. 0.99

01:23:59.000 I think I see a pattern here. 0.99

01:24:02.000 It's very likely that that's what was going on.

01:24:05.000 This guy was compromising people. 0.77

01:24:07.000 And probably absolutely a sex addict himself. 0.97

01:24:10.000 And I believe all the women that say all the horrible things that he did to them and hired them for things and had underage girls do sexual things with him. 0.93

01:24:18.000 It's probably true.

01:24:19.000 It's probably true. 1.00

01:24:20.000 He's probably a fucked up, twisted dude. 0.99

01:24:22.000 But many people that are involved, even in good things, get compromised. 1.00

01:24:26.000 Like, there's many people that work for the CIA that were legitimate CIA operatives who wound up selling drugs.

01:24:32.000 A lot of this happens.

01:24:33.000 People go sideways.

01:24:35.000 People get involved in shady activity that are cops.

01:24:38.000 There's cops that wind up doing illegal things.

01:24:40.000 They signed on to be a cop, to be a person who's going to serve and protect, and be involved in the community, and slowly but surely they get compromised, and they get involved in illegal activity, and the next thing you know, they're corrupt.

01:24:52.000 It happens.

01:24:52.000 It happens to people.

01:24:53.000 It certainly happens. 1.00

01:24:54.000 And then sometimes people fucking suicide themselves. 0.99

01:24:57.000 And the people that... 0.99

01:24:59.000 That I know, that knew him, it was, they weren't even aware of the CD stuff going on.

01:25:07.000 And of course, that's going to be true, too.

01:25:09.000 That's going to be 100%.

01:25:10.000 He was also a champion of science.

01:25:12.000 Yeah, a big champion of science.

01:25:15.000 But that's the thing about people.

01:25:16.000 They can be really good in some ways and horrible in other ways.

01:25:21.000 This idea that people are binary or one or a zero is nonsense.

01:25:25.000 There's really good people that do terrible things.

01:25:27.000 There's really terrible people that also do good things. 0.97

01:25:30.000 You know, like, look, fucking Trump just passed something, and no one wants to give him credit for this. 0.98

01:25:35.000 The kidney stuff! 1.00

01:25:35.000 What's the kidney study? 1.00

01:25:36.000 He did wonderful stuff for kidney transplant stuff.

01:25:40.000 I'm sure he did.

01:25:40.000 Pushed through.

01:25:41.000 Well, I was going to say that he absolved all the student loans for disabled veterans. 0.61

01:25:46.000 Fantastic.

01:25:46.000 I love it.

01:25:47.000 You don't hear a word about it.

01:25:48.000 A word of praise. 0.99

01:25:49.000 Look, we should absolve student loans for fucking everyone. 0.99

01:25:51.000 We're crippling kids. 0.99

01:25:53.000 We're crippling the 17, 18-year-old kids who sign up for these fucking loans and they get compromised to the point where we have people to this day right now that are getting their social security money Their social security money is getting docked because they owe student loans. 0.99

01:26:07.000 They're at the end of the fucking road. 0.99

01:26:09.000 But what do you do? 1.00

01:26:10.000 What do you do?

01:26:11.000 And this is a real question.

01:26:13.000 This is not rhetorical.

01:26:14.000 What do you do about the feeling of fairness?

01:26:16.000 The people that work their way through college waiting tables.

01:26:21.000 That's a good question.

01:26:22.000 Working really hard.

01:26:23.000 And then they... 0.97

01:26:26.000 Do we just say their feelings, which I think is valid, which is, yeah, yeah, you got fucked on this, but let's help someone else out. 0.83

01:26:35.000 What about the compassion? 0.92

01:26:36.000 Here's the difference.

01:26:37.000 Because, you know, there are people that worked really hard to not have student loans.

01:26:42.000 Yes.

01:26:43.000 And there are people that took them, there has to be somebody who took them frivolously.

01:26:48.000 A hundred percent.

01:26:49.000 I think quite a few.

01:26:50.000 And I think it's also, we also should pay attention to the human mind and the development of the human mind and the frontal cortex.

01:26:57.000 The frontal lobe does not develop properly until you're 25 years old.

01:27:00.000 Right.

01:27:01.000 Or somewhere in that range.

01:27:02.000 Plus or minus four years.

01:27:03.000 It's definitely not 17. It's definitely not 18. So you're taking on these fucking loans.

01:27:07.000 You can't be trusted with money or your future or thinking about what the fuck you're doing in terms of taking on a debt of hundreds of thousands of dollars. 1.00

01:27:15.000 And this also ties in with sexual stuff as well. 0.99

01:27:21.000 Don't we have to decide when someone's adult and then give them that respect?

01:27:26.000 Yes.

01:27:27.000 Don't we have to say, you're 18 years old, we can't control what decisions you make?

01:27:33.000 Yes.

01:27:34.000 Yes.

01:27:34.000 And when is that year going to be?

01:27:36.000 Because I think 25 is too old.

01:27:38.000 I think 25 is too old as well.

01:27:39.000 But I think what we're saying is, I mean, look, there's a lot of 18-year-old people that make very good moral decisions.

01:27:44.000 Yes.

01:27:44.000 And we should praise that.

01:27:46.000 Here's the problem with the student loan thing in terms of, it's the only loans that you never get exonerated from.

01:27:55.000 You can get bankruptcy, right?

01:27:57.000 And you can get exonerated.

01:27:59.000 You can escape the loans of credit cards, the debt of mortgages.

01:28:05.000 You can escape a bad business collapsing and owing millions and whatever.

01:28:10.000 You can escape that through bankruptcy.

01:28:12.000 You cannot do that with student loans.

01:28:14.000 It's a corrupt system.

01:28:15.000 You take a child who's trying to learn a trade or trying to learn a profession and you acquire insane debt that's gonna track you and cripple you for the rest of your life and no matter what happens to you, you owe that money.

01:28:30.000 But also, you're taking your colleges out of the free market, too.

01:28:34.000 By giving those loans easily, and by having government help, you're also taking away the free market.

01:28:44.000 Because, you know, we found out that when you...

01:28:48.000 Put the free market in like LASIK surgery.

01:28:50.000 When insurance doesn't cover it, it gets wicked cheap.

01:28:54.000 And if colleges had to be paid as people went, without easy loans to get, and if colleges did not get government money, they might be wicked cheaper.

01:29:05.000 I think they would be cheaper.

01:29:06.000 I mean, they're really, really expensive.

01:29:08.000 Crazy expensive.

01:29:09.000 Yes, crazy expensive.

01:29:10.000 I think the real solution is in treating education like a thing that's going to make our society better.

01:29:17.000 And think of it as the same way we think about the fire department, the same way we think about police department.

01:29:23.000 But don't you think that...

01:29:23.000 I mean, when you read the paper, there's always one whole thing about colleges getting too expensive and people can't go.

01:29:31.000 And then you turn 20 pages later in the paper, and there's an article about how online learning is happening and how all this stuff is going to happen.

01:29:41.000 Do you think that that idea of college is going to hold up for another 10 years?

01:29:45.000 I think there's an experience that people have where they go away.

01:29:48.000 I mean, did you go to college?

01:29:48.000 I did, but I went to college in my town.

01:29:50.000 I went to UMass Boston.

01:29:52.000 And I really only went because I didn't want to be a loser.

01:29:55.000 That was really all it was.

01:29:57.000 I was doing martial arts and fighting and traveling all over the world, or all over the country, rather.

01:30:03.000 And thinking about doing stand-up at the time as well and then transitioning to doing stand-up while I was also still taking classes, I was learning nothing.

01:30:10.000 It was a complete waste of time.

01:30:12.000 I was only doing it so I could say, yeah, taking classes at UMass Boston, barely paying attention, barely showing up.

01:30:18.000 And it was just a thing that I didn't want to tell people that I wasn't going to college.

01:30:24.000 That was the number one reason why I did it.

01:30:26.000 But I had a unique life.

01:30:29.000 From the time I was graduating from high school to the time I started doing stand-up, I was obsessed with martial arts and competing.

01:30:36.000 And that's all I wanted to do was make the Olympic team for Taekwondo.

01:30:39.000 That was my goal, and that's what I was trying to do.

01:30:42.000 So I wasn't a normal person. 0.95

01:30:44.000 I wasn't going to go to Ohio and fucking travel over there and take a full course load and not be able to pursue what I wanted. 0.90

01:30:51.000 What I wanted to do was- And also you've got a window, I think- Athletically, yeah. 0.97

01:30:56.000 Athletically that's fairly small.

01:30:58.000 And there was no scholarships for taekwondo.

01:31:01.000 It didn't exist.

01:31:03.000 And the only other option was the army.

01:31:05.000 There was a dude- I think his name is Clay Barber.

01:31:07.000 He's this really talented guy who was a fighter who was on the U.S. team at one point in time, I think.

01:31:12.000 And he was competing through the Army.

01:31:15.000 They had subsidized his training somehow or another.

01:31:18.000 And I was thinking, maybe I should join the Army.

01:31:20.000 That was the only other thing that I was thinking about doing.

01:31:23.000 But...

01:31:24.000 For people, I think there's a thing about getting away from your parents, getting away from them, getting away from their influence, being wild and crazy and being with a bunch of other kids and trying to find yourself.

01:31:33.000 And I think that comes from traveling to a place and going to college.

01:31:36.000 And I think there's some benefit in that.

01:31:39.000 I have friends that have had great benefit in that sort of transformative experience of being on a campus, a physical campus in a place that's outside of their hometown, where it gives them this new experience where they get to try to reinvent themselves.

01:31:51.000 Yeah, there's no doubt about that.

01:31:52.000 People do that.

01:31:53.000 Being able to be someone else.

01:31:55.000 But I wonder if all of that, why are we giving that a four-year period?

01:32:00.000 Why isn't that our whole lives?

01:32:02.000 It could be and should be.

01:32:04.000 And isn't that the way that's going to change?

01:32:06.000 Because people aren't having jobs for their whole life anymore.

01:32:08.000 And by the way, the liberal arts education was never supposed to teach people a trade.

01:32:14.000 It was always supposed to make it so that young men could talk.

01:32:25.000 It's so rigid, right?

01:32:30.000 You get out of high school.

01:32:32.000 High school is this torturous affair where you're being We're good to go.

01:32:52.000 Am I allowed to say this?

01:32:54.000 Am I allowed to say that?

01:32:56.000 And what are the new rules now for this new generation?

01:32:59.000 Are we really going to change the world? 1.00

01:33:00.000 And then all of a sudden you're out in the world and you realize that fucking money that you spent or that loan that you got is not getting you a job and you're fucked. 0.99

01:33:08.000 And you can't get a job and you're also massively in debt and severely depressed and trying to figure out your future. 0.99

01:33:14.000 And then you go on Adderall.

01:33:16.000 And then you're like, I get it!

01:33:18.000 We're setting people up.

01:33:20.000 We're setting people up for a horrible failure.

01:33:21.000 I am with Bernie Sanders in that I think education should be free.

01:33:24.000 And I don't think that's a bad thing.

01:33:26.000 I think you should earn it.

01:33:27.000 I think you should have to earn it.

01:33:28.000 How about if education is really cheap, like everything else is getting cheaper?

01:33:34.000 I mean, TVs are really cheap.

01:33:36.000 Why is education more expensive?

01:33:38.000 I think we could pay for it with taxes.

01:33:39.000 Or the individuals could pay for it.

01:33:41.000 Maybe the individuals could, if it made sense.

01:33:44.000 I mean, if you want to learn something now, we know this very well, if you want to learn anything now, you can get it for free on the web.

01:33:54.000 You definitely can.

01:33:55.000 You definitely can.

01:33:55.000 Many things, other than physical things.

01:33:57.000 There's a lot of physical things that you need to be taught by a coach, but I think there's a lot of things you can learn online.

01:34:03.000 And even the physical things, you can get a big chunk of it from online tutorials.

01:34:07.000 I mean, what...

01:34:08.000 I mean, let's talk about all that matters, okay?

01:34:10.000 Let's talk about juggling.

01:34:12.000 I grew up as a juggler.

01:34:14.000 When you were doing the taekwondo, I was juggling all the time.

01:34:17.000 That's all I did.

01:34:18.000 And that was my whole life was juggling.

01:34:20.000 And what happened was, with the internet, juggling got tremendously better.

01:34:26.000 Because people could watch videos of things they knew were possible and get better.

01:34:30.000 If juggling could get better, physics certainly can.

01:34:34.000 It seems like you can take a course at any college online, and if you sincerely want to learn.

01:34:40.000 I don't know if we need to have this.

01:34:43.000 What is the term called when the Amish take their one year of college?

01:34:51.000 I don't think we need a nationally tax-subsidized rumspring for every person in the country.

01:34:58.000 That seems like what it is, right? 1.00

01:35:03.000 It seems like live your fucking life. 0.99

01:35:06.000 There isn't this four-year magic period, or this two-year magic period, and go out and learn the stuff you want to learn. 0.99

01:35:13.000 I mean, you know, we both have children, and they'll be talking about going to college, and of course...

01:35:19.000 Not of course, but my wife will push very hard for college. 1.00

01:35:23.000 And my thinking is, anything they want to learn, they can just learn it.

01:35:29.000 By the way, this was also true with just the libraries in local towns.

01:35:35.000 It's just more true now.

01:35:37.000 It's even easier now.

01:35:39.000 I can't imagine growing up where my son can type in Lenny Bruce and it all just pops up.

01:35:46.000 I mean, that was amazing.

01:35:47.000 You have to go to a record store.

01:35:48.000 Order it.

01:35:49.000 Order it.

01:35:50.000 Yeah, yeah, order it.

01:35:51.000 Gribben's Music Store in Greenfield, Massachusetts did not have the Carnegie Hall concert right there in the stacks.

01:35:58.000 I had to order.

01:35:59.000 Frank Zappa, on the back of one of his records, mentions Lenny Bruce and he's on Sgt. Pepper.

01:36:05.000 I guess I should learn about him.

01:36:09.000 Lenny, write that down.

01:36:10.000 That's how I learned about Terrence McKenna.

01:36:12.000 I learned about Terrence McKenna from listening to a Bill Hicks record.

01:36:14.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:36:15.000 Yeah, I was like, who's this McKenna and what's a heroic dose?

01:36:18.000 At And Frank Zappa, one of his records, I forget what it is, I think it's Freak Out, but it might be absolutely free, says on the back, do not listen to this song until you've read Franz Kafka and the Penal Comedy.

01:36:32.000 I got the record, opened it up, it said that.

01:36:35.000 I listened to one side, got to that song, got on my bike, rode down to the Greenfield Public Library.

01:36:41.000 Kafka, I got this written down, Kafka, in the penal colony.

01:36:45.000 Sat there, read it, went back, listened to the record.

01:36:48.000 My entire education starts with Mike Nesmith of the Monkees, who said, listen to Zappa, listen to Hendrix, from Zappa to Lenny Bruce, from Lenny Bruce to the whole world.

01:36:59.000 And I believe that that is available to everybody all the time.

01:37:05.000 I mean, I don't know, as I would say, taxpayers should pay for college.

01:37:10.000 I think I would say, do we need college?

01:37:12.000 Isn't that fading away?

01:37:13.000 I think there's a real benefit to being in a classroom with a brilliant professor.

01:37:18.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:37:19.000 I think there is.

01:37:20.000 But we're also seeing with TED Talks, which I know a jive, but There is a longing there.

01:37:27.000 Did you say you know they're jive?

01:37:27.000 I mean, there can be a lot of jive TED Talks.

01:37:29.000 There's some jive TED Talks.

01:37:30.000 Yeah.

01:37:31.000 But what I'm saying is...

01:37:34.000 I went to one of the first TED conferences and got to hear, you know, all these credible people speaking.

01:37:44.000 It was mind-blowing.

01:37:46.000 And I wasn't college age.

01:37:47.000 I was, you know, I was whatever.

01:37:49.000 I was 45 or something.

01:37:51.000 40. And it was an amazing experience.

01:37:53.000 Jonas Salk, you know?

01:37:55.000 I sat and listened to Jonas Salk talk.

01:37:57.000 I've been in a room with brilliant people speaking, and it's really, really great.

01:38:03.000 But...

01:38:04.000 I think we can deliver that cheaper.

01:38:08.000 And that's the side of Bernie Sanders I want to talk about. 0.99

01:38:12.000 It's not, can we give endless amounts of money to these fucking people on college campuses? 0.99

01:38:17.000 Can we pay them all the money in the world to take our children and give them something to do in between smoke and dope? 1.00

01:38:23.000 Could we rather just say, can't we make this experience cheap enough so that anybody can go and experience it?

01:38:31.000 Why isn't it possible for you, For a few bucks to go and be in a room with a brilliant person I think that would be a thing that would be beneficial to almost anybody at any point in time instead of the rigid structure of like You know this is you know you have to get all this work done by X amount of time That's the other thing that happens to kids too.

01:38:50.000 They're they're taught about Having no sleep and about beating your body up and about cramming and about getting all this work done in a short period of time They're really we're really preparing them for a horrible job and all this shit that doesn't work and You know, all that weird kind of hazing shit that we do for medical professionals.

01:39:10.000 You're going to work for 48 hours. 1.00

01:39:12.000 What the fuck? 1.00

01:39:12.000 It never works. 1.00

01:39:14.000 Insane.

01:39:14.000 It's terrible for the patient.

01:39:16.000 It's bad for everybody.

01:39:17.000 Yeah.

01:39:19.000 And you just made the argument about the frontal cortex and you're not really ready until you're 25. One of the huge advantages I had in my life was a shitty, shitty education. 0.99

01:39:29.000 Horrible education. 0.99

01:39:30.000 You know, I went to a bad, bad, bad public school that had an influx of hippies from UMass that came in and experimented on us. 0.99

01:39:38.000 So we had no education whatsoever.

01:39:41.000 I graduated from high school on a plea bargain.

01:39:45.000 I had very good...

01:40:02.000 Thank you!

01:40:03.000 If I'd read Moby Dick when I was supposed to at college age, I wouldn't have gotten it.

01:40:09.000 But I was able to get it at the right age.

01:40:11.000 And now it's my favorite book because I was ready for it.

01:40:14.000 There's so many things that are on the curriculum that are very, very important.

01:40:19.000 Maybe not that day.

01:40:21.000 I think there's also an issue with people not thinking of education in terms of that it's a lifetime pursuit.

01:40:28.000 Sure!

01:40:28.000 It's not something that you graduate from college and then you're done.

01:40:32.000 We really should be educating ourselves throughout life.

01:40:34.000 And not just accidentally or incidentally by experiences.

01:40:38.000 We should do it because there's things that we pursue that are interesting.

01:40:42.000 And now is one of the greatest times ever to do that because of audiobooks.

01:40:46.000 You can do it while you're in the car.

01:40:48.000 You can do it while you're on the train.

01:40:49.000 You can get educated by...

01:40:52.000 They're doing this weird connecting thing where I've not experimented with this, but I'd love to, where people take courses online and then find people who are also taking courses online in their communities and then meet at like a fucking Starbucks to discuss what happened before in the class,

01:41:11.000 which is mind-blowing that that can happen.

01:41:13.000 So you can take one of my...

01:41:17.000 Huge.

01:41:17.000 I mean, one of the things I wanted to do was I wanted to learn to play jazz.

01:41:21.000 I wanted to learn to play upright bass.

01:41:22.000 I took that up at 45, and I learned to play upright bebop bass passively.

01:41:28.000 A huge accomplishment.

01:41:29.000 And now I really want to learn a language, you know?

01:41:32.000 So I was looking a little bit because I figured maybe there's a government watch list I'm not on, so I should learn Arabic.

01:41:40.000 No!

01:41:42.000 Because don't you think that ticks all the boxes?

01:41:45.000 That's going to give me everything if I just learn Arabic? 0.98

01:41:48.000 So I started looking into how I can learn Arabic.

01:41:54.000 And it's amazing the kind of network that's developing all over the world to be able to learn anything.

01:42:03.000 So my argument with you on the Bernie thing of paying for everybody's college is I think we can get college so fucking cheap you can go to college your whole life.

01:42:15.000 Well, I don't think that's a bad idea.

01:42:17.000 You know, if it's possible to get college that cheap, but I don't want professors to be poor.

01:42:21.000 I mean, I think one of the real problems we have with public education is that people don't want to be a teacher because teachers don't get paid much.

01:42:28.000 Sure, but there's a way...

01:42:31.000 I would say that's government intervention that's doing that.

01:42:34.000 I would say if you...

01:42:35.000 Government intervention is keeping the salary low?

01:42:37.000 I think so.

01:42:38.000 Really?

01:42:38.000 I really think so.

01:42:39.000 Because I think that we're not having enough of the competition and stuff.

01:42:44.000 I mean...

01:42:47.000 You know, you would pay good money to be in a room with Steven Pinker, you know?

01:42:52.000 And I think that locally, this was always a problem that I never figured out.

01:42:56.000 You know, when I was in Greenfield, Massachusetts, town of 20,000, I would say to all the other, by other high school students, I would say, you know, if we didn't give our money...

01:43:08.000 To the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Dylan and all these other bands.

01:43:13.000 We could pool our money together and have a really good local band.

01:43:17.000 We could have a great band right here in town.

01:43:21.000 And I think that if you thought of education that way, can't we get in our little area really great teachers who can teach this stuff?

01:43:30.000 It might be pretty boss.

01:43:31.000 Well, it would be amazing if we could spread education through any method, whatever we could do.

01:43:37.000 We could encourage people to be more educated.

01:43:39.000 But I think that one of the best ways to do it really is just, look, there's a lot of podcasts that are educating people.

01:43:45.000 There's a lot of information that you can get that's in entertainment.

01:43:50.000 But what we're getting is there's more information available now than ever before.

01:43:54.000 I think it's very different than what college is traditionally.

01:43:57.000 College is a thing where you go and it's a rite of passage.

01:44:00.000 And we don't have those in this world.

01:44:02.000 And I think we could do with them.

01:44:04.000 I think we could do with these rites of passage, particularly for young men.

01:44:08.000 Maybe it's the case for young women. 1.00

01:44:10.000 Obviously, I never was one.

01:44:11.000 But when you're a young man, there's this transitionary period where you're a boy and then all of a sudden, am I a man yet?

01:44:18.000 Like, when am I a man?

01:44:19.000 Certainly a lot of cultures and religions have done that.

01:44:23.000 And we've thrown it away. 0.99

01:44:25.000 Getting out and getting that certificate and getting your diploma, holy shit, I graduated from fucking university, I'm a man now, I'm a grown up, I have a degree, I'm a woman now, I have a degree, I'm an adult. 0.98

01:44:37.000 And you're obviously, you know, I'm seeing this, you know, it's okay to speak with an accent, it's not okay to hear with one. 1.00

01:44:46.000 I'm hearing that from someone who spent an awful lot of time explaining to myself and others why I didn't go to college.

01:44:54.000 You know, you wanted to show you weren't a loser.

01:44:57.000 I didn't have that.

01:44:58.000 I didn't say, I went to Ringling Brothers Barn and Bailey Greatest Show on Earth Clown College.

01:45:03.000 You know what I mean?

01:45:03.000 If you want to make sure you don't get respect, that's where you go.

01:45:08.000 Well, I talk about it just because I want people to really know where my head was at.

01:45:12.000 I don't want to glorify where I was when I was in college.

01:45:16.000 I went without any rite of passage at all.

01:45:19.000 And the closest I had to a rite of passage was earning my living, which was huge.

01:45:24.000 You were also on a different pursuit.

01:45:27.000 Your pursuit was the carny pursuit.

01:45:29.000 You enjoyed that.

01:45:31.000 You had a lust for it.

01:45:34.000 It obviously worked out well.

01:45:39.000 Listen, do you really have to bail at 2?

01:45:40.000 Because it is 2 o'clock.

01:45:41.000 Around now, yeah.

01:45:42.000 Okay.

01:45:42.000 Around now.

01:45:43.000 What are you doing?

01:45:44.000 You just hanging out?

01:45:46.000 No, I'm going to go...

01:45:47.000 Do you watch the show Perpetual Grace Limited?

01:45:50.000 No, I've never heard of it.

01:45:51.000 Okay.

01:45:51.000 What is it?

01:45:54.000 Did you watch the show Patriot?

01:45:55.000 Nope.

01:45:56.000 Okay.

01:45:57.000 Okay.

01:45:58.000 Best shows I have seen on television.

01:46:00.000 Are they fiction?

01:46:01.000 Yes.

01:46:02.000 Okay.

01:46:02.000 Yes.

01:46:03.000 Not The Patriot, not Mel Gibson, but a show called Patriot.

01:46:06.000 What's it on?

01:46:08.000 Patriot is on Amazon Prime.

01:46:11.000 Remember when there used to be like 20 shows?

01:46:13.000 Yeah.

01:46:13.000 And you knew all of them?

01:46:14.000 Now there's millions.

01:46:15.000 It's impossible.

01:46:17.000 So I am going to meet and talk to the guy who created all of those things.

01:46:23.000 Oh, okay.

01:46:24.000 Cool.

01:46:24.000 There it is.

01:46:25.000 Perpetual Grace.

01:46:26.000 Yeah, Perpetual Grace.

01:46:27.000 There it is right there.

01:46:28.000 Oh, okay.

01:46:29.000 I know that dude.

01:46:30.000 What's that dude's name?

01:46:31.000 That's Ben Kingsley.

01:46:32.000 That's right.

01:46:32.000 And then that's Jimmy Simpson.

01:46:34.000 And that guy to the left is Jimmy Simpson?

01:46:37.000 Yeah.

01:46:37.000 That guy's great.

01:46:38.000 I never knew who that guy is.

01:46:39.000 He's just always awesome.

01:46:40.000 What was he in recently?

01:46:42.000 He was in something really good.

01:46:43.000 Westworld, I think.

01:46:43.000 That's right.

01:46:44.000 Westworld.

01:46:45.000 Steve Conrad is the guy who writes, directs, produces, creates these shows.

01:46:53.000 And he happens to be in town, and I'm going to talk to him for my podcast, which is Penn Sunday School.

01:46:58.000 And I'm going to go to another studio and talk to him, and I'd already set up the time, so that can't be changed.

01:47:05.000 I love that Amazon's doing all these different shows.

01:47:08.000 They're getting into the stand-up comedy world now, too.

01:47:10.000 Yeah, crazy.

01:47:11.000 Huge amounts, huge amounts.

01:47:12.000 Beautiful.

01:47:13.000 There's so much stuff, but there's so many places to put that stuff.

01:47:17.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:47:19.000 Beautiful.

01:47:19.000 And wow, what a great time.

01:47:21.000 We've got to do this more often.

01:47:22.000 We've got to do this more often.

01:47:23.000 This is the first time we've done it.

01:47:24.000 How is that possible?

01:47:25.000 This podcast is almost 10 years old.

01:47:27.000 Yeah.

01:47:27.000 This is the first time you've been on it.

01:47:28.000 Crazy.

01:47:28.000 And also because people yell at me on Twitter.

01:47:31.000 Go talk to Joe Rogan, you asshole. 1.00

01:47:33.000 This is how fast time's going. 1.00

01:47:34.000 When I did your radio show, I didn't have a podcast.

01:47:36.000 It was more than 10 years ago. 0.98

01:47:38.000 Isn't that fucking crazy? 0.99

01:47:39.000 Crazy. 1.00

01:47:40.000 Flying!

01:47:41.000 Let's promise to do this once a year.

01:47:42.000 Can we do that?

01:47:43.000 At least.

01:47:43.000 Let's do it.

01:47:44.000 Okay, baby.

01:47:44.000 Thank you, sir.

01:47:45.000 Appreciate you.

01:47:45.000 Thank you.

01:47:46.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - August 29, 2019

Joe Rogan Experience #1343 - Penn Jillette

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