The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1353 - Rob Zombie

00:00:03.000 Here we go.

00:00:04.000 Rob Zombie, ladies and gentlemen.

00:00:05.000 How are you, sir?

00:00:06.000 Good, good.

00:00:06.000 Thanks for being here, man.

00:00:07.000 I appreciate it.

00:00:08.000 Yeah, it's awesome.

00:00:09.000 Three from Hell comes out tonight.

00:00:10.000 Yes, finally.

00:00:12.000 It's such a crazy leap that you've made.

00:00:15.000 I mean, people know you as much now for your films as they do for your music.

00:00:21.000 Yeah, pretty much.

00:00:23.000 I've really noticed that when I'd be in an elevator.

00:00:26.000 The music fans, I can pretty much spot them.

00:00:29.000 But when some guy comes up to me in an elevator, it looks like he's a lawyer or something.

00:00:33.000 Which I have to get to grips with that because I'm old.

00:00:38.000 Every time a cop comes up to me, I'm like, what does this guy want?

00:00:40.000 I'm like, oh, he's like a fan because he's 30 years younger than me.

00:00:44.000 But like, yeah, when normal people are like, oh man, I'm so into this or that.

00:00:47.000 Because, you know, I figure like, you know, heavy metal music is very specific, but everybody likes movies.

00:00:52.000 Right.

00:00:53.000 So you can never spot the fans.

00:00:55.000 Yeah.

00:00:56.000 I can pretty much spot them.

00:00:57.000 What do you look for?

00:00:58.000 Metal fan?

00:00:59.000 Like, what do you see?

00:01:00.000 Like, what's coming your way?

00:01:02.000 Well, it's changed, but now it's always a guy with a shaved head and a long goatee.

00:01:06.000 That's very similar to MMA fans.

00:01:08.000 Yeah, nobody has hair anymore.

00:01:09.000 It's like, I swear sometimes I'm on stage, the fans are like, what's with the long hair?

00:01:13.000 That's funny.

00:01:14.000 Yeah, right?

00:01:15.000 That was rock and roll.

00:01:16.000 It was synonymous.

00:01:16.000 Yeah, it's like, not anymore.

00:01:18.000 What made you make that leap into horror films?

00:01:22.000 Well, I always wanted to make movies.

00:01:23.000 That was always my main goal in life.

00:01:26.000 Really?

00:01:27.000 Before music?

00:01:28.000 Well, it was...

00:01:28.000 Well, let me back it up.

00:01:30.000 I loved everything equally, but as a kid, it all seemed unattainable.

00:01:34.000 So it was all fantasy.

00:01:35.000 Like, oh yeah, I'm going to go to Hollywood and make movies.

00:01:37.000 Oh yeah, I'm going to have a...

00:01:38.000 Ben, like, no, you're not.

00:01:40.000 You're just living in some crap town.

00:01:41.000 You're gonna do nothing is what it felt like.

00:01:42.000 You grew up in Haverhill?

00:01:43.000 Yeah.

00:01:43.000 Yeah, I grew up in Newton.

00:01:46.000 Newton over Falls.

00:01:47.000 Yeah, it's so funny.

00:01:48.000 I think when I was a kid and played ice hockey, we would play against Newton.

00:01:50.000 I'm sure.

00:01:51.000 I think we wrestled you guys.

00:01:53.000 Yeah.

00:01:54.000 Oh, God, wrestling, man.

00:01:55.000 I hated having to wrestle.

00:01:56.000 That's funny.

00:01:57.000 It's so exhausting.

00:01:58.000 It's the most exhausting.

00:01:59.000 It's like 30 seconds.

00:02:00.000 I'm like, that was the worst 30 seconds of my life.

00:02:04.000 Growing up, I mean, it's like you can have a crappy band in the garage with your friends, but it's not going to do a thing.

00:02:10.000 And then we had a Super 8 camera, so we'd make crappy Super 8 movies.

00:02:14.000 But none of it seemed realistic.

00:02:16.000 I thought my life was going to be, you know, world's worst bike messenger.

00:02:19.000 In New York City.

00:02:20.000 That seemed to be what I was destined for.

00:02:22.000 But then as the band started taking off, which seemed odd on its own, there was a chance to make music videos.

00:02:28.000 I'm like, fuck it.

00:02:29.000 I'm directing these music videos.

00:02:30.000 This will be film school for me.

00:02:31.000 And that's what it sort of became.

00:02:33.000 Did you have this thing that a lot of people have when things start going well for them?

00:02:37.000 You have sort of like imposter syndrome.

00:02:40.000 You're like, what the fuck?

00:02:43.000 Are they going to find out?

00:02:44.000 Oh, yeah.

00:02:44.000 My whole life is like, ah, fooled them again.

00:02:46.000 Yeah.

00:02:48.000 I think everybody feels like that.

00:02:50.000 I think so, too.

00:02:51.000 I mean, because I was always so shy.

00:02:54.000 I was so shy.

00:02:55.000 I wouldn't even want to talk to people on the phone when I was a kid because that was too much.

00:02:59.000 Yeah.

00:03:00.000 That one day I realized...

00:03:01.000 This is how I realized it one day.

00:03:04.000 In high school, I didn't associate with anyone.

00:03:07.000 No one remembers me because I was just invisible.

00:03:10.000 But me and my friends were sort of into punk rock in a place where no one knew what that was.

00:03:16.000 That was just like...

00:03:17.000 And then the day we graduated, we were hanging out around McDonald's, and the main asshole jock kid came up, who would be your worst enemy, and he was suddenly like, Hey man, I'm going to college.

00:03:28.000 Where do you guys get your cool clothes and stuff?

00:03:31.000 Like, wait a minute!

00:03:32.000 It was four years of torture from you and your douchebag friends, and now the day we graduate, we're like, Hey, you guys were...

00:03:38.000 So that's what I do.

00:03:39.000 Everyone's so fucking insecure.

00:03:40.000 It doesn't matter.

00:03:41.000 And then the next day, I was like, I don't care anymore.

00:03:43.000 Oh, that's crazy.

00:03:43.000 I'm a different person.

00:03:45.000 Yeah, it's hard to forgive those people.

00:03:47.000 You know, the people that fucked with you in high school, it's hard to let that go and realize they just were probably tortured at home.

00:03:54.000 Well, you can't let it go because that's your motivation.

00:03:57.000 I'm always motivated probably by anger and revenge and things of that nature.

00:04:02.000 That's why when people want anti-bullying, I go, well, it might be anti-success later on in life.

00:04:09.000 Because, you know, people that get fucked with tend to...

00:04:12.000 Yeah, Chris Rock has a bit about that.

00:04:14.000 Yeah, it's true.

00:04:16.000 It's certainly true for fighters.

00:04:17.000 Almost all the best fighters in the UFC have some story where someone was fucking with them when they were young and they had to figure out how to fight.

00:04:24.000 Yep.

00:04:24.000 What's the first thing we all do?

00:04:26.000 Take karate lessons!

00:04:27.000 Yeah!

00:04:29.000 Well, even Chris Rock's bit involved Steve Jobs and a lot of other people, like, do you not want Microsoft?

00:04:34.000 Yeah, no, it's super true.

00:04:37.000 It is super true, and it's also, it's interesting that you said that you had social anxiety.

00:04:41.000 So many people that become entertainers also had some form of social anxiety when they're young.

00:04:47.000 Yeah, I had to do this thing last, no, the night before last.

00:04:51.000 I was presenting this award to somebody at this event.

00:04:55.000 And, you know, I'm picturing, oh, the stage will be really big and high, you know, I can get up there, it's super impersonal, it doesn't matter.

00:05:00.000 And I get there, the stage is like lower than this desk, and it's like all the tables with people eating dinner right there.

00:05:05.000 I'm like, oh, man.

00:05:08.000 Nightmare.

00:05:08.000 I can't do this.

00:05:10.000 Yeah.

00:05:10.000 You know, because you have to sort of be normal.

00:05:12.000 I used to freak out when I had to talk to bank tellers.

00:05:15.000 I used to like, you know, you're in the line.

00:05:17.000 It doesn't make any sense, right?

00:05:18.000 But the line of like, I'd have to deposit my check and I'd be in the line.

00:05:23.000 I'm like, four more people and I got to talk.

00:05:24.000 I totally know that feeling.

00:05:26.000 Fuck, it's so crazy.

00:05:28.000 I was like that about every...

00:05:29.000 I was like that with my own...

00:05:30.000 Not my family that lived in the house, but for like...

00:05:33.000 An uncle came over, like, I can't deal with Dylan.

00:05:35.000 I'm talking to Uncle Bill.

00:05:36.000 I'll be upstairs.

00:05:37.000 Call me when he leaves.

00:05:38.000 Yeah, and then it's crazy that a guy like you winds up singing in front of fucking thousands of people, playing guitar in front of thousands of people.

00:05:46.000 I wish I could play guitar, but I will sing in front of the people.

00:05:50.000 It doesn't bother me.

00:05:51.000 It doesn't matter.

00:05:52.000 Oh, it's a festival.

00:05:53.000 It's a hundred thousand people.

00:05:54.000 I'm like, who gives a crap?

00:05:56.000 It's crazy.

00:05:56.000 But there's two people out there that want to say hi.

00:05:58.000 I'm like, oh, that's weird.

00:06:02.000 Yeah, especially if they're right in front of you.

00:06:04.000 One of the weirdest shows that any comic ever has to do is shows where there's a really tiny audience.

00:06:10.000 Like the comedy store at one o'clock in the morning, and there's like five people.

00:06:13.000 That's brutal.

00:06:14.000 It's just so weird.

00:06:15.000 It's like 500 people, no problem.

00:06:17.000 Yeah.

00:06:17.000 Five people.

00:06:19.000 That's why starting, when people are like, oh, do you ever want to go back and play clubs and more intimate settings?

00:06:24.000 I'm like, no, no.

00:06:26.000 I want the shows to be bigger, as impersonal as humanly possible.

00:06:31.000 Yeah.

00:06:31.000 Because I hated playing clubs and the people right in front of you doing that.

00:06:37.000 Oh, that's the best.

00:06:39.000 I know we do kind of suck, but can't you just go with it?

00:06:43.000 Give me a break, man.

00:06:46.000 Let us get our feet.

00:06:48.000 I don't know.

00:06:49.000 What kind of music did you guys play in the very beginning?

00:06:54.000 Well, when I started, I was living in New York City, and when my first band, White Zombie, started, I was working at Pee-Wee's Playhouse, actually.

00:07:02.000 I was a production assistant for Pee-Wee's Playhouse for the first season.

00:07:05.000 Did you know Phil Hartman?

00:07:07.000 No, I was a production assistant.

00:07:08.000 Oh, okay.

00:07:08.000 But did you see him?

00:07:10.000 I saw people around, because it was Phil Hartman, and it was Paul Rubens, obviously, and it was William Marshall, who played Blackula.

00:07:15.000 He was the cartoon king at that point.

00:07:16.000 And it was all these great people.

00:07:19.000 Larry Fishburne, Cowboy Curtis.

00:07:22.000 That's right!

00:07:23.000 I'm trying to think who else was there.

00:07:24.000 Wow, I forgot he was on it.

00:07:26.000 The only interaction I ever had with anybody was Paul Rubens, and I was standing there, and he walked by, and he goes, where's the bathroom?

00:07:32.000 I was like, it's right there.

00:07:33.000 That's it?

00:07:34.000 That was it.

00:07:36.000 So, I forgot what I was thinking.

00:07:38.000 Oh, but anyway, I was hit sidetrack.

00:07:40.000 It's crazy that White Zombie was your first band, too.

00:07:43.000 Yeah.

00:07:44.000 What are the odds?

00:07:45.000 It was weird, because we didn't play any covers, and we sort of, nobody really knew how to play when we started, and we sort of invented sound based upon completely not knowing what you're doing.

00:07:55.000 Really?

00:07:56.000 Yeah.

00:07:57.000 Because that's like any band, like the Ramones.

00:07:59.000 It's like, well, we know these three chords, but we understand, they instinctively understand catchy pop songs, even though it doesn't make sense.

00:08:06.000 Because when you try to learn a Ramones song, it doesn't make sense.

00:08:09.000 Even though it seems like, oh, these are really simple songs.

00:08:11.000 Because I've played them before, because I've done this Ramones tribute thing.

00:08:14.000 Like, oh, verse, chorus.

00:08:16.000 Wait, verse again, two choruses, then another.

00:08:18.000 Like, they're so catchy, but the structure is so odd, because you could tell they were just sort of...

00:08:23.000 Inventing this thing they were doing.

00:08:24.000 And that's how I felt with us.

00:08:26.000 Because I had this weird idea like, let's never play conventional drum beats.

00:08:29.000 Which is like saying, let's never make this song fun for anyone to listen to.

00:08:35.000 I got over that.

00:08:37.000 But it just, yeah, you just...

00:08:38.000 I don't know what I'm talking about.

00:08:41.000 Did you take any classes in the early days?

00:08:44.000 Well, I went to New York originally to go to Parsons School of Design for Fine Arts.

00:08:48.000 Wow.

00:08:49.000 But I got kicked out because my grades dropped too low, because I went from Haverhill to New York, so I was like, I'm just hanging out at Danceteria all night.

00:08:56.000 I'm not going to school.

00:08:57.000 Because Danceteria was amazing, because one night it would be, you know, Run DMC, like, before anyone knew who they were, and then it would be like Nick Cave, then it would be this.

00:09:05.000 It was like, I stayed there every night until 4 a.m.

00:09:08.000 And then we'd go to school and just, you know, fall asleep.

00:09:11.000 Or fall asleep on the train ride home to New Jersey, then try to get back.

00:09:15.000 So you never went to school for classical musical instruments or anything like that?

00:09:21.000 No, I never went.

00:09:21.000 I can't learn anything.

00:09:24.000 I think I'm incapable.

00:09:25.000 I just have to do it and figure it out and do it wrong a thousand times.

00:09:30.000 I can't.

00:09:31.000 I'm just incapable.

00:09:32.000 Even as a little kid, if we got a game, I was incapable of reading the directions.

00:09:37.000 We would just, let's just make up our own rules.

00:09:40.000 We got a spinner and these little guys.

00:09:42.000 Let's just, you know...

00:09:44.000 It's like three lines of directions to learn how to play the Happy Days game.

00:09:48.000 We wouldn't bother.

00:09:49.000 You're giving so many kids out there hope right now, listening to this.

00:09:52.000 They're like, that's me!

00:09:53.000 Yeah, I mean, if you're...

00:09:55.000 You can make it!

00:09:55.000 You can be...

00:09:56.000 You can be Rob Zombie!

00:09:57.000 You can be an idiot and make it.

00:09:58.000 I mean, I remember when I got kicked out of school, I was sitting in New Jersey.

00:10:01.000 I was probably...

00:10:04.000 19, maybe 20. And I was just sitting there thinking, well, I did it.

00:10:09.000 I'm a fucking loser.

00:10:11.000 Because I had, you know, I was making like 100 bucks a week.

00:10:14.000 I got kicked out of school and I was sitting there in this crappy ghetto neighborhood in Jersey City. 0.78

00:10:18.000 And you're just like, what did I do to my life?

00:10:22.000 It worked out.

00:10:23.000 Yeah, it worked out somehow.

00:10:24.000 Isn't that crazy?

00:10:25.000 Things just eventually get better.

00:10:28.000 You keep going.

00:10:30.000 I don't know how.

00:10:31.000 I guess I don't know how because it never seemed like it was going to.

00:10:35.000 White Zombie was a band that seemed like everyone hated.

00:10:39.000 And no matter what, we had to be literally the last band in New York City to get a record deal.

00:10:44.000 Maybe that's why we got it.

00:10:45.000 They're like, we're literally out of bands.

00:10:47.000 We have to sign them.

00:10:48.000 But even when that happened, there was always this weird thing, and maybe you could relate.

00:10:52.000 We offered a record deal with RCA Records.

00:10:55.000 Now, we're a band that hasn't got anything.

00:10:58.000 And I was like, nah, doesn't seem right.

00:11:01.000 I turned it down.

00:11:02.000 And then we got MCA and I turned it down.

00:11:04.000 I was like, I think we should hold out for Geffen Records.

00:11:07.000 Now, we have nothing.

00:11:08.000 There's people holding out for Geffen Records because they were the biggest at the time.

00:11:12.000 With no reason to be holding out.

00:11:14.000 But we got signed to Geffen eventually.

00:11:16.000 How did you have those kind of balls? 0.79

00:11:17.000 Because that seems like you would...

00:11:18.000 Well, I think it's balls mixed with stupidity at the same time.

00:11:23.000 Because I know I could be my own worst enemy.

00:11:25.000 Because even when I signed to Geffen, you know, I come up with an album title.

00:11:29.000 They're like, really?

00:11:30.000 You're going to call it La Sexorcista, Devil Music Vol.

00:11:32.000 1?

00:11:32.000 Is this just to guarantee we don't get any good placement on the album in stores?

00:11:37.000 I guess.

00:11:39.000 And then they're like, well, let's hire so-and-so to direct a video.

00:11:43.000 He just did the naming some big, the White Snake video.

00:11:46.000 I'm like, no, I'm going to do it.

00:11:47.000 And they're like, oh, God.

00:11:49.000 This idiot.

00:11:51.000 But it all worked.

00:11:52.000 It's crazy, though, that you passed on two legitimate record companies.

00:11:57.000 I mean, most kids, when they're starting out, are so, you know, you're like, holy shit, this is our chance.

00:12:02.000 I didn't think they were good enough.

00:12:04.000 Wow.

00:12:04.000 Even though we weren't good enough for anything either.

00:12:06.000 I don't know what that thought was.

00:12:08.000 Well, maybe you just...

00:12:09.000 I don't know.

00:12:19.000 It's like, I feel like my whole life is just like, I could have gotten hit by that car, I just didn't.

00:12:23.000 You know?

00:12:24.000 Because I just stopped one second short from actually stepping in front of the speeding car and made it.

00:12:29.000 So you always wanted to make movies, though?

00:12:32.000 That was always something I wanted to do, for sure.

00:12:34.000 But that seemed completely undoable.

00:12:38.000 Because it was just like Hollywood and movies.

00:12:41.000 I mean, it feels so far removed.

00:12:43.000 I mean, living on the Lower East Side, playing CBGBs and being broke, that seems doable.

00:12:49.000 Right.

00:12:51.000 And that actually what inspired me there is I would see so many bands, I go, well, they suck.

00:12:55.000 I mean, we...

00:12:57.000 At least better than they are.

00:12:58.000 That was, I guess, the motivation I had.

00:13:01.000 But movies just seem like no way.

00:13:03.000 That works for comics, too.

00:13:04.000 That's one of the best things.

00:13:05.000 Richard Jenning once said that about open mic nights, that really bad comedians are great because they inspire people to try it.

00:13:11.000 Yeah.

00:13:11.000 Yeah, I get it.

00:13:14.000 I think I have so many friends that are comics that I've always become good friends with over the years.

00:13:20.000 And I think it's so similar.

00:13:23.000 I can't imagine standing there trying to tell jokes that people aren't laughing, but I also can't imagine standing there playing songs that nobody wants to hear, and they're just looking at you like...

00:13:32.000 You know?

00:13:35.000 It's kind of similar.

00:13:36.000 Well, the thing is, I think it's probably even harder, maybe, with songs that nobody knows.

00:13:41.000 Because people will listen to jokes because they make them laugh, but songs that no one knows, and a band that no one knows, like, man, you've got to figure out a way to rope these people in.

00:13:51.000 Yeah, that's why I always figured like...

00:13:53.000 I was always visually oriented, so I always made sure the band had to look a certain way and act a certain way.

00:14:02.000 The way I wanted them to be, you know?

00:14:05.000 I thought at least there's that.

00:14:07.000 At least you can go, this is awful, but look at these maniacs where, you know, everybody's hair is down here and they're going crazy and no one else is going crazy in the club, but they are.

00:14:17.000 At least it's, you know, an entertaining train wreck to watch, at least, you know.

00:14:22.000 What kind of films did you like when you were growing up?

00:14:25.000 I mean, when I was a kid, I would literally just get the TV guide because we're talking like, you know, We're good to go.

00:14:51.000 And that's...

00:14:52.000 I would just watch everything.

00:14:53.000 Kids today will never understand TV guides.

00:14:55.000 No.

00:14:55.000 Never understand.

00:14:56.000 And the ones that would come with the Sunday paper, you'd get the guide with the paper and you'd figure out what's going to be on.

00:15:02.000 It was the greatest thing ever.

00:15:04.000 We would look forward to what was going to be on TV. Remember as a kid, like, you knew Planet of the Apes was going to be on.

00:15:09.000 Like, the whole neighborhood was on fire because Planet of the Apes was going to be on.

00:15:13.000 Now it's like, whatever, it's on my phone right now.

00:15:14.000 It's always there.

00:15:15.000 Yeah.

00:15:16.000 But I think there's something...

00:15:18.000 Don't you think, and I don't know how this figures into comedy, but I'm sure it does.

00:15:22.000 There was something about having to be exposed to everything because there was nothing else that I know as much about John Wayne movies as I do about horror movies.

00:15:30.000 Right, you didn't get to choose.

00:15:31.000 Whereas now everything's so compartmentalized that people just, like, if you hear a band, you go, let me guess what your favorite band is.

00:15:38.000 The band you sound exactly like because you have no other influences.

00:15:42.000 As opposed to a lot of metal bands I know that are huge, they go, well, my favorite band was actually ZZ Top, so we just decided to play ZZ Top riffs really fast, and that's how we created this.

00:15:51.000 But now everybody's just so like, I only like this.

00:15:54.000 Yeah, you get in those confirmation bubbles, where everybody else likes what you like, and you just...

00:16:02.000 Operate in the same circles.

00:16:03.000 Yeah, you can get real weird that way.

00:16:06.000 Well, it's weird.

00:16:07.000 But if you're taking influences, stealing things from everywhere, you can put them together in a new way.

00:16:13.000 But if you're like, I only like metal, I only guess you sound like metal.

00:16:16.000 Well, that's the cool thing about the radio, right?

00:16:17.000 I mean, I've been recently listening to Spotify, which I never listened before, but listen to streaming services.

00:16:24.000 I get exposed to, you know, there's like a channel.

00:16:27.000 Like, there'll be a Rob Zombie channel, and there'll be a bunch of other shit on it as well.

00:16:30.000 Like, you know, there's Led Zeppelin Channel, and you hear some weird music that you didn't expect from some bands you didn't even know of.

00:16:37.000 And I miss that from radio.

00:16:39.000 Yeah, I mean, I just want to, because you want that moment of like, oh, whoa, what's this?

00:16:42.000 Yeah.

00:16:43.000 Wow, that's fucking cool.

00:16:44.000 I'm going to listen to that.

00:16:45.000 I didn't know what it was five minutes ago.

00:16:47.000 Yeah.

00:16:47.000 You know, and now, I mean, because even as a kid, I mean, I hate talking like this, but I can't help it.

00:16:51.000 It's like, you know, like just FM radio is like, okay, the Allman Brothers, then Diana Ross, then Kiss, then ABBA. I'll just listen to all of it.

00:16:59.000 Because it's on the radio.

00:17:00.000 Right, right.

00:17:01.000 You know?

00:17:01.000 Yeah, I remember growing up in Boston, remember WBCN? Oh, yeah.

00:17:05.000 Totally.

00:17:06.000 Yeah.

00:17:07.000 They played one time, I forget who it was.

00:17:10.000 It might have been Mark Parenteau.

00:17:11.000 I forget who it was, who was the DJ. Oh, I heard that in a long time.

00:17:15.000 Yeah, right?

00:17:16.000 Was saying that this, look, this is not, it might have been COZ. It might not have been BCN. Anyway, whoever the DJ was, it was a rock station.

00:17:26.000 And they were like, look, this isn't rock.

00:17:28.000 But it's fucking good.

00:17:30.000 They didn't say fucking good.

00:17:30.000 It's really good.

00:17:32.000 And that's why we're playing it.

00:17:33.000 They played Michael Jackson.

00:17:34.000 And I remember thinking, wow, this is so crazy.

00:17:36.000 They're going to play a Michael Jackson song.

00:17:38.000 But it was really good.

00:17:39.000 And so you're like, okay, I'll take it.

00:17:42.000 It's funny how you remember that, because I still remember them one morning brushing my teeth, and they're like, oh, we're playing this new band, The Police, his song Roxanne.

00:17:50.000 I thought it was like this, you know, black reggae band until I saw a picture of him.

00:17:55.000 Rest in peace, Rico Kasich.

00:17:56.000 I know, right?

00:17:57.000 Lost him today.

00:17:58.000 Rico Kasich from The Cars.

00:18:00.000 That's a bummer.

00:18:01.000 That was a bummer.

00:18:02.000 Those guys are so...

00:18:03.000 The Cars is one of those bands where whenever you don't know what to listen to, you can always listen to The Cars because there's so many good songs and it's so good.

00:18:11.000 Yeah, he was such an interesting guy, too.

00:18:13.000 Such an oddity.

00:18:15.000 Tall and lanky with the sunglasses on.

00:18:18.000 And the supermodel and every song's awesome.

00:18:19.000 Yeah, they were weird.

00:18:20.000 Yeah, man.

00:18:21.000 He was brilliant.

00:18:22.000 That's a bummer, man.

00:18:23.000 That's a bummer.

00:18:25.000 And he was cool, too, because I remember when he produced the Bad Brains record, Rock for Light, and I was like, Rick O. Kasich?

00:18:31.000 He's hipper than I thought.

00:18:33.000 Yeah.

00:18:34.000 It's cool.

00:18:36.000 So, like, movies-wise, movie-wise, like, when you were a kid, were you into horror films back then?

00:18:43.000 I was into everything.

00:18:45.000 But I love that for sure, but I, like...

00:18:48.000 I don't even know if we...

00:18:49.000 We definitely didn't call them horror movies.

00:18:51.000 We thought everything was a monster movie.

00:18:53.000 Like, oh man, check out this monster movie.

00:18:55.000 Like, that's just what we'd call it.

00:18:56.000 Because it was always like, you know, we had Creature Double Feature on Channel 56. Do you remember that?

00:19:01.000 Sure!

00:19:01.000 Yeah, that was like the...

00:19:03.000 Every weekend, it was like, oh fuck, it's Destroy All Monsters and, you know, whatever.

00:19:06.000 Creature Double Feature!

00:19:08.000 On Channel 56. So that was, yeah, so big time.

00:19:14.000 That ruled our world.

00:19:15.000 So watching them back then, that's when you got the idea?

00:19:19.000 Well, I got the idea that I loved it and I wanted to do it, but it was the idea, like, yeah, I want to be an astronaut, too.

00:19:25.000 Like, it didn't seem like an idea that was ever going to happen.

00:19:28.000 Right, it was just something that you were really into.

00:19:30.000 Yeah, and it's really funny, too, this funny, weird thing, because at one time in high school, me and my friends filmed a sequel to Escape from New York, the John Carpenter film.

00:19:41.000 I don't know.

00:19:42.000 I've got nothing better to do.

00:19:43.000 And then to be like, you know, however many, 20 years later that I remade a John Carpenter film, Halloween, was just so bizarre.

00:19:50.000 I guess I've been thinking about it for a long time.

00:19:52.000 But, you know.

00:19:53.000 That is kind of crazy.

00:19:54.000 It's weird, yeah.

00:19:55.000 It's weird shit like that.

00:19:58.000 When your first actual film was what?

00:20:01.000 Like 2004?

00:20:03.000 2000. 2000?

00:20:04.000 Yeah, because the way it went down was...

00:20:06.000 This is a funny story too.

00:20:07.000 I made my first movie, House of a Thousand Corpses, at Universal Studios.

00:20:11.000 And it was 2000. It could have been even the tail end of 1999. I'm not sure.

00:20:16.000 The only reason I know it's 2000, I had a rap gif somebody gave me and they put a date in.

00:20:19.000 I was like, oh shit, it was 2000. So I made the movie with Universal Studios.

00:20:23.000 And once they screened it, we had our test screening, which I thought went great.

00:20:28.000 What do I know?

00:20:30.000 The head of Universal at the time came up to me and was like, we have to talk tomorrow.

00:20:34.000 I was like, oh man, that was not a good tone.

00:20:37.000 That wasn't a, you're so great, we want to give you a five-picture deal, tone of voice.

00:20:41.000 So the next day they dumped the movie.

00:20:44.000 And, you know, just basically booted us out.

00:20:48.000 What was the conversation?

00:20:50.000 They were like, basically this is unreleasable.

00:20:54.000 I don't remember word for word, but that was the conversation in a nutshell.

00:20:59.000 But at the time, too, you figure there was no horror coming out of Universal.

00:21:03.000 They were making like the Flintstones movie, and that was not the image they wanted.

00:21:07.000 This really vile sort of backwoods hillbilly murder fest where the bad people win, essentially.

00:21:16.000 I mean, horror films were sort of like not even a commercial thing at that point, in a way.

00:21:21.000 So then, which is funny now, if you go to Universal Studios Hollywood or Orlando, there's a huge House of a Thousand Corpses event going on in both theme parks.

00:21:30.000 That's hilarious.

00:21:31.000 I was there for the grand opening, like, that's funny.

00:21:34.000 Again, like, it's like a train, it's like, I get fired from here and now, you know, 20 years later, it's a theme park attraction in the exact place I got fired from.

00:21:41.000 Wow.

00:21:42.000 Which is so weird.

00:21:43.000 What was the conversation like before you decided to do that film?

00:21:47.000 I mean, how did they let you do it?

00:21:52.000 Again, I think getting to make a movie for Universal Studios was such an amazing experience, but I think I was too naive to understand what was happening.

00:22:02.000 It'd be like you did one set of comments like, hey, we're going to put you on tour with George Carr.

00:22:05.000 You're like, cool.

00:22:06.000 I guess this is the way it happens, man.

00:22:07.000 You know?

00:22:08.000 And then it's after like, wow, I didn't really appreciate it.

00:22:11.000 It just went down, did I? Not that I took it for granted, but I had...

00:22:16.000 I had met with someone at the theme park about doing a haunted maze during their Halloween Horror Nights based on my album.

00:22:24.000 And then sort of by being in the offices was meeting people and having just meetings about stuff or I just didn't want to leave once I got in the studio.

00:22:32.000 I just loved being there even though I had no business being there.

00:22:34.000 And somehow I remember being in the guy at the time, his name was Kevin Mischer, his office Pitching him a movie I didn't have a pitch for.

00:22:43.000 I had a title, but nothing else.

00:22:46.000 And somehow it progressed from there.

00:22:48.000 I was like, really?

00:22:49.000 I told him kind of a cool title with a completely half-assed idea that I was making up as I was talking to him.

00:22:55.000 What did you say?

00:22:56.000 What was the conversation?

00:22:57.000 I don't even remember.

00:22:57.000 It was weird.

00:22:59.000 I wish I could remember it well because after the fact...

00:23:04.000 I'm like, how did this happen?

00:23:05.000 I don't remember.

00:23:07.000 This is like, your story is like the anti-ambition story.

00:23:10.000 It's like the anti-preparation story but super successful nonetheless.

00:23:15.000 Yeah, I guess the goal is just be vague with people.

00:23:19.000 Be vague and look cool.

00:23:20.000 And act like you don't care.

00:23:22.000 And I had that attitude too.

00:23:24.000 I remember once the movie was rolling, I was like, This is who I want to cast, and this is exactly what I want to do, and if you guys don't want to do it, that's cool.

00:23:33.000 Let's just not work together.

00:23:36.000 And they did it.

00:23:38.000 Wow.

00:23:39.000 Like, that's a great pitch on my part, right?

00:23:41.000 And we shot it on the Universal backlot.

00:23:44.000 We were, like, right there, like, doing the whole thing, and big production, and it was weird.

00:23:51.000 Wow.

00:23:51.000 When it wrapped.

00:23:53.000 Like, final day, final scene, and that's a wrap!

00:23:56.000 Were you like, what the fuck just happened?

00:23:59.000 Well, the funny thing is, after we wrapped the first time, we had a little test screening within the studio, like friends.

00:24:05.000 Like, oh, we should probably punch up the ending.

00:24:08.000 So they gave me more money to reshoot the ending than I actually made my newest movie with.

00:24:13.000 It was like money was nothing.

00:24:16.000 You know, they're throwing money around like nothing.

00:24:18.000 I was like, oh my god, this is insane.

00:24:19.000 We were building these giant sets, doing all this crazy stuff.

00:24:22.000 It was after that that, you know, the problem started.

00:24:27.000 I wish I could remember these things better.

00:24:30.000 It's weird that I don't.

00:24:32.000 But what attracted you to this ultra-violent, psychopath, outcast, murderous style of movie that you do?

00:24:43.000 Because you have these almost mutant society, psycho-murder people.

00:24:49.000 I don't know.

00:24:50.000 But people fucking love it, man.

00:24:52.000 I've always dug outsider mentality.

00:24:55.000 Anything that involved...

00:24:58.000 I think it started as a kid.

00:25:00.000 As a kid, because a lot of people can relate to this.

00:25:02.000 I didn't feel like I fit in.

00:25:04.000 I was weird.

00:25:05.000 I didn't fit in.

00:25:06.000 I didn't get what were the cool shoes to wear or the right freaking IZOD shirt.

00:25:10.000 I didn't understand.

00:25:12.000 I wasn't trying to be, you know, no one's trying to be weird, and they're like, oh yeah, I want to be weird and hide away because I'm weird.

00:25:17.000 No, it's like, I don't understand.

00:25:19.000 And I think when I would watch monster movies, the monster was always that mentality.

00:25:25.000 Like King Kong's like, hey man, I'm just trying to get along.

00:25:26.000 Why is everyone shooting at me?

00:25:27.000 And Frankenstein's like, hey, I was just born yesterday.

00:25:29.000 Why are you trying to kill me?

00:25:31.000 Like, and I think as a weird kid, you relate to the monster.

00:25:33.000 So as life went on and, you know, the...

00:25:46.000 Right, like revenge.

00:25:53.000 I was just into it.

00:25:55.000 I felt real similar when I was a kid.

00:25:57.000 I was always into monster movies.

00:25:59.000 I was always into something that just tore all the normal people apart and just ripped apart all the preconceived notions of what everybody thought was going to happen.

00:26:11.000 And then towards the end of high school when I discovered punk rock and you figure out there's an entire form of music where they're just like, go fuck yourself.

00:26:20.000 That's why we're here.

00:26:21.000 I was like, I'm in.

00:26:24.000 And so many other people as well.

00:26:26.000 Yeah, and it just flips your whole idea of what life is.

00:26:30.000 And then when I moved to New York, I was like, wow!

00:26:32.000 This is an entire city of people who don't give a fuck.

00:26:36.000 Yeah, that's where they come.

00:26:38.000 Nobody gives a shit about anything here.

00:26:40.000 It's amazing how your movies resonate with people.

00:26:45.000 In a fanatical way.

00:26:47.000 Read the comments on just the trailer for Three from Hell.

00:26:52.000 People are so fucking pumped.

00:26:55.000 Yeah, it's great.

00:26:56.000 It's been a long journey because when my first movie came out, I think every review basically said something along the lines of, worst movie ever made.

00:27:06.000 I hate this movie.

00:27:08.000 And now people are like, dude, that's your best movie.

00:27:11.000 You've been chasing it ever since.

00:27:13.000 So it's just weird.

00:27:13.000 Same with White Zombie.

00:27:14.000 When our first Geffen, I still remember this, our first Geffen record came out, I saw the first review.

00:27:20.000 It was this magazine, Alternative Press, who two years ago gave me this Lifetime Achievement Award, and I had to read the review while I accepted the award.

00:27:28.000 The review said, this is the worst band ever.

00:27:33.000 I was like, ever?

00:27:35.000 Come on.

00:27:37.000 It said, this is the worst band ever.

00:27:39.000 Ignore this band.

00:27:41.000 So there was something, you know, there must have been something.

00:27:44.000 Did you ever contact the person who wrote that?

00:27:46.000 No, I didn't.

00:27:46.000 Back then, I was just like...

00:27:48.000 I mean, I felt like maybe a few years later, once you were really successful.

00:27:52.000 I can't remember who it was.

00:27:53.000 I used to be upset by reviews until I saw who wrote them.

00:27:59.000 Yeah.

00:28:00.000 You know.

00:28:00.000 Yeah.

00:28:01.000 That's a problem.

00:28:03.000 And then you go, that guy?

00:28:03.000 A lot of critics are critics because they really wanted to be writers.

00:28:06.000 They just don't have a lot to contribute, and so they just shit on things.

00:28:10.000 And it's just like when you're young and you're new and you're reading it, you think that the guy's writing it all badass.

00:28:15.000 You're like, oh, this dude must look like Lemmy.

00:28:18.000 He must be this hard-ass guy.

00:28:19.000 And then you see a guy like, that guy wrote it?

00:28:21.000 Oh, fuck him.

00:28:23.000 And fuck everyone else who ever writes anything again.

00:28:25.000 I don't give a shit.

00:28:27.000 But the thing is about music is it's so subjective.

00:28:31.000 Someone who grew up wearing the right eyes, odd shirts, hanging with the cool crowd, your music's not going to resonate with them the same way it's going to be with other people that felt like they were outsiders.

00:28:44.000 I can only do what I do and I don't know what would be popular.

00:28:49.000 I don't understand popular culture in a way because when people are gushing over something, a movie or something, I say, I go, I hated that movie.

00:28:57.000 I know it made $500 million and it's everyone's favorite movie.

00:29:00.000 I go, I could barely sit through it.

00:29:03.000 Yeah, there's a lot of those being made.

00:29:04.000 Same with music.

00:29:05.000 Like, I'd be like, oh, I love the Velvet Underground.

00:29:07.000 Everyone's like, but what about...

00:29:08.000 And they'll name something like, you know, I don't want to bash anybody, but something so popular.

00:29:13.000 That makes me want to kill myself when I hear that.

00:29:15.000 Literally, it's sickening.

00:29:17.000 Do you like any films today?

00:29:19.000 Is there anything that you watch today that resonates?

00:29:20.000 Oh, yeah, I see stuff all the time.

00:29:22.000 And, you know, I mean...

00:29:23.000 What kind of shit do you enjoy?

00:29:24.000 I watch everything.

00:29:26.000 I mean, whenever there's something that's more like...

00:29:30.000 Smaller movies I really like.

00:29:32.000 Like, I was thinking about the other day about this time in the 90s where, like, you got movies like Napoleon Dynamite and American Splendor, which I thought, you ever see that?

00:29:41.000 Yes.

00:29:41.000 I thought, Paul Giamatti is Harvey Picard.

00:29:45.000 This is like the greatest movie ever made.

00:29:47.000 It's a great movie.

00:29:47.000 And Ghost World, those early Terry Zweigoff films, I was like, that's where I kind of my head was at, just weird movies like that.

00:29:53.000 Yeah.

00:29:56.000 Look, Napoleon Dynamite, to this day, is one of the greatest comedies of all time.

00:30:00.000 As soon as that movie started and the credits were food, I was like, this is like the greatest thing I've seen in a theater in like 20 years.

00:30:05.000 What is going on here?

00:30:06.000 Well, I just don't understand why they never made a second one.

00:30:10.000 I don't know.

00:30:10.000 That didn't make any sense to me.

00:30:12.000 I'm like, this is a fucking franchise waiting to happen.

00:30:15.000 Like, him and the other dude, who was the guy who played his uncle?

00:30:20.000 Uncle Rico?

00:30:21.000 Yeah.

00:30:22.000 I mean, the fucking guy was amazing.

00:30:23.000 They were so, like, over-the-top but believable.

00:30:28.000 Like, everything about it.

00:30:29.000 When he's feeding Tina.

00:30:31.000 Yeah.

00:30:33.000 Come on, Tina. 1.00

00:30:33.000 It just doesn't seem like I could miss. 1.00

00:30:37.000 I love that movie.

00:30:38.000 Yeah, well, I can see them doing it now.

00:30:42.000 Yeah.

00:30:43.000 50 years later.

00:30:43.000 They try to do that with Dumb and Dumber, remember?

00:30:45.000 They did it way, way, way too late.

00:30:47.000 And Jim Carrey's like 50, and everybody's like, this is just weird.

00:30:51.000 You're not young anymore.

00:30:52.000 You can't be a buffoon.

00:30:54.000 That's hard lightning in a bottle to recreate Dumb and Dumber.

00:30:57.000 Yeah, right, right, right.

00:30:59.000 It's like Step Brothers.

00:31:00.000 There's certain movies that just...

00:31:01.000 Right, you gotta kind of leave them alone.

00:31:03.000 I remember seeing Step Brothers and I was like, is it my imagination or is every single fucking thing in this movie hilarious?

00:31:08.000 Well, those two guys together seem like they can't miss.

00:31:11.000 You know, in Talladega Nights, they were fucking amazing in Talladega Nights.

00:31:15.000 I love when a comedy's made well.

00:31:17.000 Yeah.

00:31:17.000 Because so often they're not.

00:31:19.000 Yeah.

00:31:19.000 You know, that's what I liked about The Hangover.

00:31:21.000 If you turn the sound off and you just looked at it, it's a really good-looking, well-made film.

00:31:27.000 And then you turn on the sound and you realize it's hilarious.

00:31:28.000 But so many comedies are just so shitty.

00:31:30.000 What's that new Seth Rogen-produced film with kids?

00:31:34.000 The Good Boys?

00:31:35.000 Yeah, I didn't see that yet.

00:31:36.000 My fucking wife said it was amazing. 1.00

00:31:38.000 She said it was like, piss your pants laughing.

00:31:41.000 Oh, really?

00:31:41.000 Yeah.

00:31:42.000 Oh, that's good to know.

00:31:42.000 I need to go see it.

00:31:43.000 You didn't see it?

00:31:44.000 I liked it.

00:31:45.000 It was like a live-action South Park.

00:31:47.000 That's a good way to describe it.

00:31:48.000 Did you see it?

00:31:48.000 Yeah, I watched it a couple weeks ago.

00:31:50.000 You liked it?

00:31:50.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:31:50.000 Because it's R-rated.

00:31:53.000 Seth Rogen can't miss.

00:31:54.000 He's hilarious.

00:31:56.000 Now, when you were a kid, you liked all kinds of stuff, but did you think if you wanted to make films that you would be making the kind of films that you're making now?

00:32:05.000 These, like, butchers?

00:32:07.000 Well...

00:32:09.000 I guess, since the first thing I made was that, and I was into it.

00:32:12.000 I mean, I liked, because what happened, too, was when I moved to Manhattan in, like, 1982 or something, I discovered when New York City was all second-run theaters and double features, so I could finally see the laundry list of films I'd never been able to see.

00:32:29.000 I remember the first time I, like, 8th Street Playhouse was a good example, where the first time I saw Texas Chainsaw Massacre was on a double bill with Jimmy Plays Berkeley.

00:32:39.000 I don't know why that was the double bill.

00:33:00.000 You know, because with this new movie, Three from Hell, you know, it's playing on about a thousand screens, so it's not like everywhere.

00:33:07.000 Like, you can't walk two feet and it's on five screens.

00:33:10.000 And people are like, fuck, man.

00:33:11.000 It's like a 15-minute drive from my house.

00:33:13.000 I was like, I would literally drive for five hours as a kid if there was a movie I wanted to see.

00:33:17.000 It didn't matter.

00:33:19.000 I'd ride my...

00:33:19.000 One time I rode...

00:33:20.000 Before I could drive, I rode my bike for like three hours to see Night of the Living Dead at a midnight screening because I'm like, I'm going to see this no matter what.

00:33:28.000 Because if you didn't see it, it was just going to Evaporate.

00:33:30.000 That's one of the things I love about people from Canada.

00:33:33.000 Canada, they drive everywhere.

00:33:35.000 I have friends in Alberta.

00:33:36.000 They'll drive seven hours to go see something.

00:33:38.000 Yeah.

00:33:38.000 Because that's what you have to do.

00:33:40.000 You get up in the morning and that's your day.

00:33:41.000 You're driving somewhere.

00:33:42.000 And when I was younger, that was part of the fun.

00:33:44.000 I didn't care.

00:33:45.000 Yeah, it's an adventure.

00:33:46.000 So the concert's 30 hours away, so...

00:33:49.000 Yeah.

00:33:51.000 Did you study or have you watched a lot of really old horror movies?

00:33:57.000 Yeah, I mean, I watch, sometimes I feel like I'm searching for things to watch because I try to watch literally everything and I want to own everything.

00:34:06.000 So I have like a vault at home that has, you know, 20,000 movies in it.

00:34:12.000 Because I never, if somebody mentions something and I don't know what it is, I'm like, fuck.

00:34:16.000 Fuck!

00:34:17.000 And I like write it down and I immediately have to go like investigate it.

00:34:20.000 So when you say a vault, like an actual vault?

00:34:22.000 Like a bank vault?

00:34:23.000 No, I just call it a vault.

00:34:25.000 It's just a room that I built that just is nothing but like a movie library because I want to own everything.

00:34:31.000 So you have a physical copy of all these?

00:34:33.000 Yeah.

00:34:33.000 What format do you put them in?

00:34:35.000 Well, now they're DVD. I mean, they were Laserdisc and VHS, and then I started trading more.

00:34:39.000 Because what happens now, it's great that everything's digital, but if you go to iTunes, 99% of the things I want to see aren't there.

00:34:45.000 Because they're not, you know...

00:34:47.000 So you can do that thing now that was nice on Amazon where you can...

00:34:51.000 They will burn the movie on CD to own.

00:34:53.000 Because it'll be weird movies.

00:34:55.000 I was spent forever trying to find it.

00:34:56.000 I mean, I got it many years ago.

00:34:58.000 There was this movie called Dirty Little Billy with Michael J. Pollitt as Billy the Kid.

00:35:03.000 I was like, where do I see this?

00:35:05.000 Dirty Little Billy.

00:35:06.000 Yeah, it's this amazing movie from the 70s.

00:35:09.000 And finally, you can get it.

00:35:13.000 It's made to order CDs.

00:35:15.000 I mean, DVDs on Amazon and stuff.

00:35:17.000 Yeah.

00:35:18.000 When I was a kid, I was gigantically into horror films.

00:35:21.000 And I used to read Fangoria all the time.

00:35:24.000 And I remember they were getting into these...

00:35:26.000 They were slasher movies from, I guess, the 60s that I'd never heard of that were ultra-gore-fest movies.

00:35:34.000 God, I'm trying to remember who was the director, but there was a guy who was famous for these...

00:35:40.000 Probably Herschel Gordon Lewis, is that what you're thinking?

00:35:42.000 I think that is...

00:35:42.000 Like 2,000 Maniacs and Blood Feast and stuff like that?

00:35:44.000 Yes, yes.

00:35:46.000 Like, that stuff, I never was exposed to that.

00:35:49.000 I've still, to this day, I've never seen one of those films, but the magazines were covered with, like, people with axes and blood.

00:35:56.000 Yeah, I mean, because things would play at the drive-in and then go away.

00:35:59.000 Yeah.

00:35:59.000 You know, that's how I felt when the first time, I loved when 42nd Street in New York was the real 42nd Street.

00:36:07.000 Right.

00:36:08.000 And I remember, it was so funny, me and my friend, my roommate back then, we'd always go to 42nd Street to see movies, because it'd be like, Cannibal Holocaust. 0.80

00:36:15.000 I would just see the post, like, what the fuck is Cannibal Holocaust?

00:36:17.000 And you'd go see this Italian cannibal movie, and you'd go, this is literally the most, I cannot believe another human made this movie.

00:36:25.000 And it blows your mind.

00:36:26.000 But I remember every time I went to 42nd Street, I saw a really bad incident happen.

00:36:33.000 Like, you could not go there.

00:36:35.000 We'd be waiting in line and like, oh, let's go get some french fries before the movie.

00:36:40.000 Two guys would start fighting at McDonald's.

00:36:41.000 One guy would just pummel the other guy. 0.99

00:36:42.000 There'd be blood everywhere.

00:36:43.000 I'd go, it happened.

00:36:45.000 Next time we'd go, we'd see a guy stab another guy in the theater while watching.

00:36:48.000 There it is.

00:36:49.000 Literally, I never went there once.

00:36:52.000 And even right till I was recording my album before I moved, I remember walking to the studio, which was like maybe 43rd, and there was a dead body lying there, and they had just found him, and they were just starting to put the sheet.

00:37:03.000 So I actually didn't see the violin act, but I saw the dead body.

00:37:06.000 But he didn't care.

00:37:08.000 Like, New York, it was like New York, when I moved to New York in 82, still seemed like, you know, taxi driver New York.

00:37:16.000 Yeah, well, that was when it was.

00:37:17.000 It was a wild fucking west.

00:37:20.000 So exciting, because Haverhill was so boring in comparison.

00:37:23.000 Yeah, couldn't be more boring.

00:37:25.000 If its goal was to be boring, it...

00:37:27.000 Gold medal.

00:37:28.000 Yeah, it succeeded.

00:37:29.000 I remember, Haverhill was so bad that when we were kids, I remember, I don't forget, maybe this was around the bicentennial.

00:37:36.000 I think they were trying to drive business because Main Street, and you can't even blame Walmart back then, was dead.

00:37:41.000 There was nothing there.

00:37:42.000 It was just a ghost town.

00:37:44.000 And they're like, they just put all these banners up.

00:37:46.000 Haverhill, the all-American city.

00:37:49.000 But it was like the catchphrase is going to matter.

00:37:52.000 That's going to make people open businesses. 1.00

00:37:53.000 Oh, I didn't know.

00:37:54.000 I was like, this is so bad.

00:37:55.000 Time to sell flags.

00:37:57.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:37:58.000 Yeah, I went to New York City for the first time in the 80s as well.

00:38:03.000 I'm trying to remember what year it was.

00:38:05.000 It was like somewhere probably around 82 or 83. And when we were...

00:38:09.000 In the city driving around, I remember thinking, like, this is the craziest fucking place I've ever been in my life.

00:38:15.000 The buildings were so big, it didn't make sense.

00:38:18.000 Pulling up to it, I remember we drove up on the West Side Highway, and you see the city coming up in the distance.

00:38:23.000 You see the buildings getting larger and larger as you get closer.

00:38:25.000 It's mental.

00:38:26.000 Didn't seem real.

00:38:27.000 I remember being on the sidewalk.

00:38:30.000 Now, this is coming from a place where a sidewalk means there's literally no other person on the sidewalk as far as you can see.

00:38:36.000 Right.

00:38:36.000 And he was standing on the sidewalk.

00:38:38.000 It must have been uptown somewhere.

00:38:39.000 And it was like you couldn't move with people.

00:38:42.000 I was like, what is happening?

00:38:44.000 Right.

00:38:45.000 Sworn.

00:38:45.000 I've never seen like this is how it is all the time.

00:38:48.000 Like I live in the street in Haverhill.

00:38:50.000 Like a car drove down it like once a day.

00:38:55.000 And it was probably your dad coming home from work.

00:38:57.000 Like there was just nothing.

00:38:58.000 Right.

00:38:58.000 If you had a time machine, though, and you went from 1982 and you said, hey, what do you think it's going to look like here in 2019?

00:39:06.000 You'd be like, fuck, man, it's going to be Mad Max!

00:39:09.000 There'd be fucking cars driving with black smoke coming out of them, people shooting people right on the street.

00:39:15.000 It's going to get worse.

00:39:16.000 It's not going to get better.

00:39:17.000 Yeah, the only thing I remember, right towards my end of being there, there was the Tompkins Square downtown, and that was where homeless people lived.

00:39:26.000 It was Alphabet City.

00:39:27.000 It was the worst.

00:39:29.000 Wait, I want to back it up.

00:39:30.000 When I first moved to New York, the first night I was there, this sounds like I'm making it up and I'm not.

00:39:35.000 The first night I was there, the dorm that I was in with all my roommates overlooked Union Square Park, which is like Needle Park.

00:39:43.000 You just went there to buy dope and that was it.

00:39:45.000 Now you go there because it's a farmer's market and it's beautiful.

00:39:49.000 And I heard this guy screaming and screaming and screaming.

00:39:52.000 I was like, Jesus Christ, what is going on?

00:39:54.000 Because it was like 100 degrees.

00:39:55.000 Of course, there's no air conditioning.

00:39:57.000 I look out the window and I watch these cops beat up this guy.

00:40:01.000 And I was like...

00:40:02.000 And then they dragged him down to the subway.

00:40:05.000 And the next day, all these cops showed up at the dorms.

00:40:08.000 And it was this guy, Michael Stewart.

00:40:11.000 It became a really famous case.

00:40:12.000 They called him a graffiti artist and he had been beat to death by the cops.

00:40:17.000 And me and all my roommates saw it.

00:40:20.000 And the next day they came and took our statement and we all had to testify in front of the grand jury.

00:40:25.000 This is my first day out of Haverhill.

00:40:28.000 I witnessed a murder.

00:40:31.000 But again, it's like the same thing with my deal at Universal.

00:40:35.000 I was too naive and weird to really comprehend what I'd seen.

00:40:39.000 Were you kind of pumped?

00:40:39.000 Like, wow, things are happening.

00:40:42.000 I'm so jaded.

00:40:43.000 It didn't disturb me or seem like...

00:40:46.000 I don't know.

00:40:47.000 I don't know what's wrong with me, but I am desensitized by all the violence I've witnessed as a child, I guess.

00:40:52.000 Would you see more violence before that?

00:40:55.000 Well...

00:40:57.000 There's one famous thing I remember as a kid.

00:41:00.000 There's two famous things I just saw.

00:41:02.000 When I was a kid, the family business that my mom came from was, like, carnivals. 0.93

00:41:09.000 Like, you ever see that movie, Carnie?

00:41:11.000 Yeah.

00:41:11.000 With Gary Busey?

00:41:12.000 Yeah.

00:41:12.000 That's exactly the life as a kid that I remember.

00:41:15.000 When I saw the movie, I was like, this is...

00:41:18.000 This was our life.

00:41:19.000 So that makes sense, this attraction you have to these drifters.

00:41:23.000 Yeah, it was always what I was surrounded by.

00:41:25.000 So that was the thing I remember as a kid.

00:41:28.000 Except it was around 1977, I think, because I remember Kiss Love Gun, it just came out.

00:41:34.000 Because I was all pumped about it.

00:41:38.000 And the family worked there.

00:41:39.000 My mom and dad and me and my brother had to work and sell food and stuff and I hated it.

00:41:45.000 We used to have to dip the candy apples and hand them to people and they've healed now but I had burns all over my hands because the apple candy would be so hot it would drip on my hand and burn my hands.

00:41:58.000 Anyway, I digress.

00:41:59.000 But one night there was the gambling tents which were all rigged of course.

00:42:04.000 And someone had some guy getting fleeced for all of his money and came back and lit the tent on fire.

00:42:11.000 And then suddenly, shit hit the fan.

00:42:13.000 Everybody that me and my little brother had been around all the time, it's like, boom, all these guns start coming out.

00:42:19.000 And you start hearing guns popping up.

00:42:20.000 And then the tents just went like nothing was fireproof.

00:42:23.000 So everything's on fire.

00:42:25.000 It's complete chaos.

00:42:27.000 And I was probably in fifth grade.

00:42:29.000 My brother was probably in second grade.

00:42:32.000 And everybody's screaming to run around.

00:42:34.000 And this guy was like, I don't remember his name, but he worked there.

00:42:37.000 He was like, hey, you guys should come over here.

00:42:39.000 And before he finished his sentence, somebody ran up and hit him in the face with a hammer and broke his whole face open.

00:42:44.000 It was just gushing blood.

00:42:46.000 And we're like, and then eventually my parents got us in the car and we left, which was, that was my parent.

00:42:52.000 My mom was like, we're done.

00:42:53.000 This is, we're not doing this anymore.

00:42:55.000 That was the last time we ever did it.

00:42:58.000 Wow, what a great way to go out, though.

00:43:00.000 But the best was going to school in September.

00:43:02.000 Like, what did you do this summer?

00:43:04.000 And that was my story.

00:43:05.000 Wow.

00:43:06.000 We didn't go to Camp Winnipesaukee.

00:43:08.000 We were in a carnival riot.

00:43:11.000 What was the gambling tent?

00:43:13.000 Like, what kind of games are they rigging?

00:43:15.000 I don't know.

00:43:16.000 I mean, everything's rigged.

00:43:18.000 Like, anything from...

00:43:19.000 And there's even a great scene in Kearney where...

00:43:23.000 A friend of mine who's in a lot of my movies, Meg Foster, plays the one where she's holding all the long strands of rope.

00:43:28.000 And she's training Jodie Foster like you pull the rope and it's connected to a prize.

00:43:32.000 And everything's rigged.

00:43:34.000 The weighted lead milk bottles you're supposed to knock down with a softball.

00:43:38.000 I mean, everything's rigged.

00:43:40.000 I mean, there's certain ways that you know how to cheat them so that when the guy's showing you how to do it, look, it's so easy to throw it like this, but there's a certain way you can throw it.

00:43:45.000 It'll work, but other ways won't.

00:43:47.000 I would never be in the gambling tents because they were actual gambling.

00:43:50.000 We were like little tiny kids, but it was probably roulette wheels, I'm guessing.

00:43:54.000 Things like that.

00:43:55.000 That way, you know, the guy spins it and probably gets something with his foot and it never stops on the number that the guy's got all his money on because he let him win a bunch of times or something.

00:44:02.000 So when the fire broke out and people started shooting, who was shooting at who?

00:44:05.000 I don't know what was going on.

00:44:06.000 Just chaos.

00:44:07.000 We're little kids.

00:44:08.000 You're not really comprehending this going on in fourth or fifth grade.

00:44:11.000 You're just like, that guy's now got a gun.

00:44:13.000 I hear gunshots.

00:44:14.000 Everything's on fire.

00:44:15.000 There's smoke.

00:44:15.000 People screaming.

00:44:16.000 This guy's now gushing brains out of the front of his head.

00:44:21.000 Fuck.

00:44:22.000 I said there were two stories.

00:44:23.000 Oh, the second story.

00:44:25.000 The second story I kind of put in the new movie, Three from Hell.

00:44:29.000 This was like when I was in high school.

00:44:31.000 I was in the backyard rehearsing with my two friends, our band or whatever.

00:44:37.000 And we heard this screaming.

00:44:39.000 And it was a bright, sunny day.

00:44:40.000 It seemed like a David Lynch movie, Suburbia.

00:44:42.000 And this fat, naked guy was running down the street, covered in blood.

00:44:47.000 He had been stabbed a whole bunch of times.

00:44:49.000 Like people are mowing their lawns and looking at...

00:44:51.000 And I just remember a bloody naked guy running down the street screaming like a weird scream.

00:44:56.000 People scream weird when they get stabbed.

00:44:59.000 And so I put something like that in the movie.

00:45:02.000 But it just, yeah.

00:45:03.000 What happened to him?

00:45:04.000 I don't know.

00:45:05.000 I don't know.

00:45:06.000 He was like, he was knocking on people.

00:45:07.000 And again, I was like, oh, it's weird.

00:45:12.000 And I just went back and we continued rehearsing.

00:45:15.000 Whoa.

00:45:15.000 Like, again.

00:45:17.000 That must have flavored the music a little bit.

00:45:19.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:45:19.000 I should be really bothered by things like that.

00:45:23.000 But I'm not.

00:45:24.000 Wow.

00:45:25.000 I mean, there's a thing that happens when you see too much.

00:45:28.000 It's one of the reasons why cops and soldiers have some of the oddest sense of humor.

00:45:34.000 I can see that.

00:45:35.000 Yeah, they've just seen too many bodies.

00:45:37.000 Yeah.

00:45:38.000 I mean, imagine the guys that have to come scrape up all the stuff off the road and put it in the bags.

00:45:42.000 Oh, man, geez.

00:45:43.000 Yeah.

00:45:47.000 Yeah.

00:45:47.000 But yeah, that was the life I remember.

00:45:48.000 I remember my mom's brother.

00:45:50.000 He would always...

00:45:51.000 He didn't always do this, but sometimes he was a biker.

00:45:54.000 So he'd come over to the house and he had a chopper with iron crosses on it.

00:45:58.000 He kind of looked like he had a big mustache.

00:45:59.000 And I was like, this guy is badass.

00:46:01.000 Like, drive us around the neighborhood so everyone can see us.

00:46:03.000 You know, there's a lot of that stuff.

00:46:05.000 That is...

00:46:07.000 So, when you were saying that you collect films, and you have films, did you go back to the really old ones, like Nosferatu?

00:46:14.000 Oh yeah, I love silent movies.

00:46:15.000 And now they're easier to get, because I always loved Lon Chaney, but so many of the films were hard to get.

00:46:19.000 I was showing my kids Lon Chaney two nights ago.

00:46:22.000 What movie did they watch?

00:46:23.000 Well, I was showing them the original Wolfman, and I was showing them Jekyll and Hyde.

00:46:29.000 I was showing them some of the...

00:46:30.000 Lon Chaney Jr. Well, Lon Chaney Jr. was Wolfman, but his dad, who was in Phantom of the Opera and Hunchback in Notre Dame.

00:46:35.000 Wasn't he Jekyll and Hyde as well?

00:46:36.000 That was Lon Chaney, right?

00:46:37.000 No, Frederick March.

00:46:39.000 Oh, it was?

00:46:39.000 Well, it depends.

00:46:40.000 There's the John Barrymore.

00:46:42.000 Silent Jekyll and Hyde, but you're probably not sure.

00:46:44.000 The Frederick March one is great.

00:46:46.000 It's so perverted.

00:46:48.000 Is it really?

00:46:49.000 The prostitutes and stuff. 0.91

00:46:50.000 Isn't that the one you showed your kids?

00:46:52.000 Like from the 30s?

00:46:52.000 Oh yeah, for sure.

00:46:53.000 From the 30s?

00:46:54.000 After they watch porn.

00:46:56.000 Well, there's the boring one with Spencer Tracy.

00:46:58.000 Is it boring?

00:46:59.000 Just compared to the other one.

00:47:01.000 Because anything that's sort of like the pre-code stuff is really amazing.

00:47:05.000 We watched the beginning of the Spencer Tracy one because it was so strange.

00:47:10.000 There's actually, on iTunes you can watch a preview, but it's not really a preview in its old films because they didn't have previews back then.

00:47:18.000 So it's just a scene.

00:47:20.000 And it's a scene when he's becoming Mr. Hyde, but he doesn't look any different.

00:47:24.000 Yeah, he just kind of messed up his hair.

00:47:26.000 Looks a little meaner.

00:47:27.000 The Frederick March one is one of the best ones ever made.

00:47:30.000 It's so good.

00:47:31.000 But Lone Chaney was like... 0.89

00:47:33.000 It was Phantom of the Opera, which is a really interesting one, because he put on some really painful makeup for that film.

00:47:41.000 I mean, he just invented everything, yeah.

00:47:42.000 Yeah.

00:47:43.000 The things you do.

00:47:44.000 I mean, I don't know how much the stories have been exaggerated by publicity departments over the years, but yeah, I mean, it's just incredible.

00:47:50.000 And movies like The Unknown or The Unholy Three, like you can get everything now.

00:47:54.000 Forever, it's like impossible to see these movies.

00:47:56.000 For a long time, I don't do it anymore, but I used to collect vintage movie posters, and that's what I would go after.

00:48:02.000 The Lon Chaney silent movie posters, because a lot of times I'd be like, there's only one of these in existence, and I was like, I gotta have it.

00:48:08.000 Then I realize I'm spending too much money on things.

00:48:12.000 Those old films, you know, when I was trying to show them to my kids, I was just trying to...

00:48:17.000 We were going from the 20s to the 30s.

00:48:20.000 There's a movie that's the original horror film that I found out was 1920. It's actually two years older than Nosferatu.

00:48:27.000 It was Dr. something...

00:48:30.000 Dr. Caligari.

00:48:31.000 Caligari.

00:48:31.000 Yeah, that's a good one.

00:48:33.000 Yes.

00:48:33.000 Yeah, we watched a little bit of that, too.

00:48:35.000 But I just wanted to show them how weird it is, like the progression of film, particularly scary films, because when my kids were real little, my wife was out of town, and I said, do you guys want to watch a scary movie that's not really scary?

00:48:49.000 And they were nervous.

00:48:50.000 How old were they?

00:48:51.000 At the time, I think they were five and three, or maybe six and four, somewhere around there.

00:48:56.000 So I'm throwing down the test.

00:48:57.000 Do you want to watch it?

00:48:58.000 But I knew it wasn't going to be really scary, so I put on the original King Kong from, what was that, like 30?

00:49:04.000 1933, I think, yeah.

00:49:06.000 Something like that.

00:49:06.000 And we were laughing.

00:49:08.000 I was like, let me tell you something.

00:49:09.000 We're going to watch this, and it's so fake.

00:49:12.000 It looks so dumb.

00:49:13.000 I go, we're going to laugh.

00:49:15.000 And so we were cuddled up on the couch.

00:49:16.000 They were nervous.

00:49:17.000 And then once they saw the thing, they're like, that's it?

00:49:20.000 That's the monster?

00:49:21.000 I was like, let me tell you something, kid.

00:49:23.000 In 1933, this was scary for people.

00:49:25.000 They really thought this was realistic.

00:49:27.000 They thought this was amazing.

00:49:29.000 Do you ever have that moment you watch something, like say, I do this like Frankenstein.

00:49:34.000 Like you've seen it so many times that it's hard to watch it like you've never seen it before.

00:49:37.000 But sometimes I'll be watching something...

00:49:41.000 Yeah.

00:50:02.000 His head's flat.

00:50:03.000 He's got bolts on his neck.

00:50:05.000 The Jack Pierce makeup is so incredible that I was just like, people must have been running for the door.

00:50:11.000 Pull up a picture of what Boris Karloff looked like in that movie.

00:50:14.000 I haven't seen that in forever.

00:50:16.000 It's so good.

00:50:17.000 It was so good.

00:50:18.000 Also, it's so difficult for us to understand perspective.

00:50:23.000 To put yourself in their place back then.

00:50:27.000 Yeah, look at that.

00:50:28.000 The lighting was incredible.

00:50:29.000 Now, we're used to seeing that.

00:50:30.000 It's so iconic that it becomes like...

00:50:34.000 But if you'd never...

00:50:35.000 I mean, never seen anything like that before.

00:50:37.000 I mean, I guess, going back to what we said a second ago, like Lon Chaney in Phantom of the Opera and his Quasimodo, you kind of...

00:50:43.000 The bolts in the neck.

00:50:45.000 But that must have just been like...

00:50:46.000 Fucking cables for a battery.

00:50:49.000 It's so crazy.

00:50:50.000 The posts on his neck.

00:50:51.000 Do you remember when they did a remake with De Niro?

00:50:54.000 I do.

00:50:56.000 I don't remember a movie very good.

00:50:58.000 I don't remember it either, but I remember it being terrifying looking.

00:51:02.000 Updated.

00:51:03.000 Yeah, he looked cool in that.

00:51:05.000 It's a tough one though with those movies because they got it so right the first time.

00:51:09.000 Yeah.

00:51:10.000 And the performances are like...

00:51:12.000 I really like Lugosi in Dracula.

00:51:16.000 And when you watch it...

00:51:18.000 I always feel like he's like Brando of that time because everyone else is talking like, yeah, well, they're still doing Vodkaville and they're way over the top and they're too much.

00:51:26.000 And he's doing this thing where sometimes you almost can't understand him because of his accent.

00:51:32.000 Like, wow, he's in this whole weird head trip and they're doing play.

00:51:36.000 Hey, listen, buddy.

00:51:38.000 You know, like the way they're talking.

00:51:39.000 And that's why nobody can remember...

00:51:42.000 David Manners who got paid ten times with Lugosi, but Lugosi is like this iconic thing like Marilyn Monroe.

00:51:48.000 I mean, this was so out of time with so special what they were doing.

00:51:53.000 Yeah, even in the film there's a scene where the woman had been bit and he's like, what's wrong?

00:51:59.000 What's going on?

00:52:01.000 He's so corny and over the top and in that, you know, the style of that era, but Lugosi is on another level.

00:52:10.000 A lot of those actors then seem very much like they were in the closet and they were trying to play with the woman.

00:52:15.000 And Lugosi has that vibe like, I'm going to fuck everything on this set before I leave this movie.

00:52:21.000 He just reeks of like, I'm Hungarian and I'm going to nail every actress in this film.

00:52:26.000 Yeah, and he's a fucking powerful vampire.

00:52:29.000 He bought into it.

00:52:30.000 He was in the role.

00:52:32.000 He was in the headspace.

00:52:34.000 And a lot of those movies, another good one is The Black Cat, where the same guy was in Dracula's, and he's so swishing over the top, and Lugosi and Karloff together is so intense.

00:52:45.000 It's like...

00:52:46.000 There's two different movies going on.

00:52:48.000 This weird Hollywood movie and this weird thing these other guys are doing, man.

00:52:52.000 It's like Brando in Apocalypse Now.

00:52:54.000 He's making a whole different movie.

00:52:56.000 Him and Dennis Hopper.

00:52:58.000 It's cool to just go back in time and see the progression of horror to go from those films.

00:53:04.000 I still think Nosferatu to this day is one of the coolest vampires ever.

00:53:08.000 It's so incredible looking.

00:53:10.000 There was no sort of benchmark before him.

00:53:14.000 Right?

00:53:14.000 I mean, and he looked so fucking weird with the long fingers and he looked creepy.

00:53:19.000 And the way he would rise, remember when they had him on a board?

00:53:22.000 Oh yeah, it just was like straight up.

00:53:23.000 And he would sit straight up.

00:53:24.000 It looks incredible.

00:53:25.000 And I still, and I love the...

00:53:28.000 The Herzog remake with Klaus Kinski.

00:53:30.000 Oh, that's right.

00:53:31.000 Werner Herzog did that.

00:53:32.000 Yeah.

00:53:33.000 And Kinski's so perfect.

00:53:36.000 Wow.

00:53:37.000 I forgot about that.

00:53:37.000 Because he's another crazy actor that just reeks of crazy right off the screen.

00:53:42.000 Yes.

00:53:43.000 Yeah.

00:53:43.000 It's just hard to do a good monster movie these days.

00:53:47.000 I mean, I'm a gigantic Rick Baker fan, obviously.

00:53:50.000 Yeah, Rick's amazing.

00:53:51.000 He's coming on here, too.

00:53:51.000 Oh, is he?

00:53:52.000 I'm super pumped.

00:53:52.000 Oh, yeah.

00:53:52.000 His new book looks amazing.

00:53:54.000 Yeah, I'm so excited.

00:53:55.000 I'm getting them to promote that.

00:53:57.000 But when I was a kid, I wanted to be a makeup artist.

00:54:00.000 Oh, really?

00:54:00.000 It was one of the things that I wanted to do.

00:54:01.000 Yeah.

00:54:02.000 So I studied Rick Baker, and I studied the early Lon Chaney days, like we were talking about.

00:54:07.000 And I just love the prosthetics in Star Wars and shit.

00:54:11.000 Which, by the way, I went to the Star Wars attraction yesterday.

00:54:14.000 Oh, you did?

00:54:15.000 At Disneyland.

00:54:15.000 It's the shit.

00:54:16.000 Yeah.

00:54:17.000 Woo! 0.99

00:54:18.000 That fucking Star Wars ride.

00:54:20.000 The ride is incredible, man.

00:54:22.000 It's simulated though, right?

00:54:23.000 Yes, it's simulated, but you throw up.

00:54:24.000 Simulated rides make me want to just...

00:54:27.000 I won't throw up, but I'll feel like I want to for the rest of the day.

00:54:30.000 It's awesome.

00:54:31.000 It's awesome.

00:54:32.000 So my kids were steering.

00:54:33.000 They got a chance to steer.

00:54:35.000 They were the pilots, and you're slamming into fucking...

00:54:37.000 Because they have to coordinate.

00:54:38.000 One goes up, one goes down, left and right.

00:54:41.000 So up and down is one kid, and left and right is the other.

00:54:43.000 Are they next to each other in the cockpit, or are they separate?

00:54:46.000 Next to each other.

00:54:47.000 Pretty close.

00:54:48.000 But they're screaming at each other.

00:54:50.000 Don't hit it!

00:54:51.000 Come on! 0.61

00:54:51.000 They're like asteroids flying. 0.61

00:54:53.000 Boom! 0.99

00:54:53.000 They're hitting shit. 0.99

00:54:55.000 But just the ride is fucking incredible.

00:54:58.000 I mean, you can see there's so much money poured into there.

00:55:01.000 And apparently there's a bunch of other ones that are in the process of developing, too.

00:55:05.000 Oh, really?

00:55:06.000 But I loved those movies.

00:55:09.000 And a big part of it was like the cantina scene.

00:55:12.000 If you went to that now, you'd be like, oh my god, it's obviously a mask.

00:55:17.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:55:17.000 Like their face doesn't be like...

00:55:19.000 It's like that weird werewolf guy.

00:55:20.000 Yeah, but they're not moving.

00:55:25.000 But back then, I was like, this is amazing.

00:55:28.000 This is the greatest thing I've ever seen.

00:55:29.000 I can so clearly remember seeing that movie for the first time.

00:55:33.000 I remember coming out of the movie shell-shocked.

00:55:38.000 Everything I thought about everything just changed.

00:55:41.000 Yeah.

00:55:42.000 Life will never be the same.

00:55:43.000 That's another movie that's so hard to put in perspective.

00:55:45.000 I've watched it with my kids now and it's like you gotta bring them back to the 1970s when this movie came out.

00:55:52.000 You don't get it.

00:55:52.000 Like back then this was fucking insane how good it was.

00:55:56.000 Yeah.

00:55:59.000 I think we had little competitions with our friends to see who could watch it the most amount of times.

00:56:04.000 I think I saw it like 13 times.

00:56:06.000 Yeah, I mean, it's crazy.

00:56:08.000 Someone gave me a Blu-ray of the original before Lucas did all the extra stuff and ruined it.

00:56:17.000 Somehow they had cut together.

00:56:18.000 Somebody went to all the trouble of getting like a Japanese laser and they cut together a Blu-ray of exactly the movie as it was in 1977. What did he do differently in the new version?

00:56:27.000 Enhance some of the special effects.

00:56:29.000 He added that scene with the digital, you know, Jabba the Hutt.

00:56:32.000 And just like, there'll be like the Tauntaun that's like, there's just little robots and bullshit everywhere that wasn't there in the original.

00:56:39.000 And now, what seems so badass for effects in whatever it was 2000 now looks super bad.

00:56:45.000 Cheesy.

00:56:46.000 But the stuff from 77 still, that's why I always want to, like you watch 2001, you go like, how can this still look better than everything?

00:56:52.000 These are literally models shot in 1968 or something.

00:56:56.000 Well, Kubrick knew the limitations of the visual format.

00:57:01.000 And so he shot things in a way where he wasn't willing to compromise the way something looked to show you something.

00:57:11.000 Sort of like the King Kong animation.

00:57:13.000 That's the best they could do back then.

00:57:15.000 But Kubrick figured workarounds.

00:57:18.000 I just read this new book that came out, maybe six months ago, that's all about the making of 2001, and the book is so detailed.

00:57:24.000 I wish I could remember the title of it.

00:57:25.000 And it's amazing, the amount of time.

00:57:28.000 Stuff you take for granted now, just...

00:57:30.000 How they had to make the digital readouts on the computer screens.

00:57:35.000 Because that stuff did not exist at all.

00:57:37.000 So the amount of time that went into just simple background things that nobody cares about.

00:57:43.000 It's just mind-blowing.

00:57:45.000 Just the weightlessness scenes and how they did all that stuff.

00:57:47.000 Which still look amazing.

00:57:49.000 No, it's still an incredible movie.

00:57:50.000 And it's also a time capsule, right?

00:57:52.000 It's one of those films that it's great, but it's also great in a time capsule.

00:57:57.000 I love it because...

00:58:00.000 I love all of his movies for the same reason.

00:58:02.000 Because they take over the viewer.

00:58:06.000 Like most movies, they're like, you watch it and it's doing what the movie thinks will make you happy.

00:58:11.000 Whereas Kubrick's doing stuff like, well, this is what it would be like to be in space.

00:58:15.000 Yeah.

00:58:16.000 This is the pace it's going to unfold at.

00:58:19.000 Yeah.

00:58:20.000 Like, which is painfully slow at times.

00:58:22.000 Well, you can't get away with that today.

00:58:24.000 No, because people are too...

00:58:26.000 I don't know.

00:58:27.000 They don't have the attention span, I don't think.

00:58:28.000 And same thing with Barry Lyndon or Clockwork Orange.

00:58:30.000 It doesn't matter what movie it is.

00:58:31.000 The Shining.

00:58:32.000 Yes.

00:58:33.000 Like now if someone made The Shining, it'd go, it's great.

00:58:35.000 You gotta cut the first hour out of it.

00:58:38.000 You know?

00:58:39.000 Too much build-up.

00:58:40.000 We're gonna start it with the red rum scene.

00:58:41.000 Yeah.

00:58:42.000 Start it with a hatchet slamming into somebody.

00:58:45.000 The opening shot would be, you know, Scatman Clothers.

00:58:46.000 And then go three months earlier.

00:58:48.000 Yeah.

00:58:49.000 Then get with an axe.

00:58:50.000 Yeah, they would do that.

00:58:51.000 They would go three months earlier.

00:58:52.000 They would do that.

00:58:54.000 It's cool to see, though, those films, they did what they could do with what was available.

00:59:02.000 Whereas with now, the problem with CGI is they use it.

00:59:06.000 And they overuse it.

00:59:08.000 And I think that...

00:59:09.000 I don't...

00:59:10.000 I mean, CGI can be phenomenal.

00:59:12.000 For sure.

00:59:13.000 But it's a tool, and it's turned into a crutch.

00:59:15.000 And I see it with actors.

00:59:17.000 Like, you see actors a lot of time, and I feel bad for the actors, because you see actors that you go, I know these guys are great, but they're awful in this movie, because they didn't train to stand in a warehouse that's green and pretend to look at stuff.

00:59:30.000 Yeah, right?

00:59:30.000 So they really...

00:59:31.000 Like, when you watch The Phantom Menace, you go...

00:59:34.000 Why does it suddenly seem like Liam Neeson can't act?

00:59:37.000 Right, right, right.

00:59:38.000 Because he's like, look at that dot on the wall.

00:59:40.000 I mean, and you know these guys are incredible actors.

00:59:43.000 I was talking to somebody once, a kid that was in my movie.

00:59:45.000 He was in all the Spy Kids movies.

00:59:46.000 And he said it was so hard because they'd be on a green screen.

00:59:50.000 They'd be like, you're looking at that.

00:59:52.000 Well, we're not sure what you're looking at, but just stare at that dot and react.

00:59:55.000 He's like, well, what is it?

00:59:57.000 Is it a dragon or is it my mom?

00:59:59.000 What am I reacting to?

01:00:00.000 We haven't figured it out yet.

01:00:01.000 And he said he was always in a constant state of confusion as to what he was reacting to.

01:00:07.000 Well, it's hard, too, when you go back and you look at some of them.

01:00:11.000 You know what movie got it right that sort of didn't get enough respect in its time, but in time, as time passed, it's become more respected?

01:00:20.000 It's Starship Troopers.

01:00:23.000 Yeah, I don't remember that movie that well.

01:00:25.000 I thought you were going to say Forrest Gump.

01:00:28.000 No, but removing Major Dan's legs.

01:00:31.000 I mean, that's like when CG's awesome.

01:00:33.000 I thought, oh shit, they found a guy with no legs who's a great actor, because I don't know who Gary Sinise was back then.

01:00:37.000 How about the ping pong scene?

01:00:38.000 Yeah, right.

01:00:39.000 There's a lot of CGI shit.

01:00:41.000 Stuff like that's amazing.

01:00:42.000 What I was getting at with monster movies, though, it's Pat McGee.

01:00:48.000 He's the guy who did that werewolf, the one that's out there.

01:00:51.000 He'll make them for you.

01:00:52.000 Oh, really?

01:00:53.000 And we had this conversation about it.

01:00:55.000 We were saying that you can see CGI, and even if it's awesome, your brain knows it's CGI. That's funny.

01:01:02.000 I have that same thought, that it's something subliminally your brain knows it's all fake.

01:01:07.000 Yes, like Godzilla.

01:01:08.000 Whereas, like...

01:01:10.000 Yeah, like Godzilla, like when you know it's a guy in a rubber suit crushing things, like if you watch the original one when they cut in Raymond Burr, there's something so dark and fucked up about that movie.

01:01:21.000 Yes.

01:01:21.000 Because everything's, that's real fire.

01:01:23.000 There's actually three-dimensional objects blowing up.

01:01:26.000 But when it's so big and fake, like I always say, like, what's scarier?

01:01:32.000 A giant CG creature that you know you will never see or like a maniac with a pillowcase over his head holding an axe coming at you.

01:01:41.000 Like your brain goes, that could happen.

01:01:43.000 I get it.

01:01:43.000 Because the other thing is like, well, that's like Roger Rabbit.

01:01:47.000 That's not going to happen, you know?

01:01:49.000 It's not...

01:01:50.000 It might be cool or it might be big, but it's not...

01:01:53.000 Like one of the scariest horror movies of all time is Alien.

01:01:55.000 Yeah.

01:01:56.000 And in the first few encounters they have with the creature, you don't even see the damn thing.

01:02:00.000 No, because it's...

01:02:01.000 You couldn't show it that much like the shark in Jaws, but when you see it, it's like it's actually there.

01:02:07.000 Yes.

01:02:07.000 And you can feel that its jaws are right in front of Sigourney Weaver's face.

01:02:12.000 Yes.

01:02:12.000 It's not like she's looking at nothing and her eyeline's a little off because it's a tennis ball and a stick she's looking at.

01:02:18.000 There's something about it really happening in the space that I think people can feel it.

01:02:22.000 And Sigourney Weaver, I think Sigourney Weaver in Alien is the greatest female action hero star ever.

01:02:29.000 Because you bought it hook, line, and sinker.

01:02:32.000 She was a scientist.

01:02:33.000 She wasn't supposed to be this heroine that's out there just fucking things up and killing everybody. 0.99

01:02:39.000 And she wasn't supposed to be super hot and sexy and young. 0.67

01:02:44.000 But she was hot enough. 1.00

01:02:45.000 Because she became tough.

01:02:47.000 I remember when Alien came out.

01:02:50.000 It was kind of like when The Thing came out.

01:02:51.000 And all the reviews were bad, if you remember.

01:02:54.000 Was it really?

01:02:55.000 Yeah.

01:02:55.000 I mean, the reviews for everything are bad when you go back and go, oh, there's no redeemable characters.

01:03:00.000 They're all these cardboard characters.

01:03:02.000 They rip everything apart.

01:03:04.000 But it's like Harry Dean, Stan, and Yafit Kodo.

01:03:07.000 Fucking movie was amazing.

01:03:09.000 Great character actor doing these great roles, but it was like...

01:03:12.000 Now if they remade that, it'd be like...

01:03:14.000 Fuck the reviews.

01:03:15.000 But that's the thing.

01:03:16.000 The reviews never mean anything.

01:03:18.000 They're just like so crazy.

01:03:19.000 The first time...

01:03:19.000 Was it Harry Dean Stanton that saw it the first time?

01:03:22.000 Who was it that saw it the first time where they climbed down into the...

01:03:26.000 They climbed down the stairs and it's...

01:03:28.000 It's right there.

01:03:29.000 I don't remember.

01:03:30.000 You only see it for like a second.

01:03:32.000 But it was a physical thing.

01:03:33.000 But the point is, it was an actual guy in a suit.

01:03:36.000 And you knew by the way it was moving that it was an actual guy right in front of him.

01:03:40.000 And it took up three-dimensional space in real life.

01:03:42.000 And you could feel it.

01:03:44.000 And, you know, just like when the chest burst thing...

01:03:48.000 Yes.

01:03:49.000 It's an actual thing.

01:03:51.000 It's a thing.

01:03:52.000 It's fucking bizarre.

01:03:53.000 Or an American Werewolf in London.

01:03:55.000 Same thing.

01:03:56.000 You see brief glimpses of this thing, like really quick, like one frame, one second of it, and then at the end of it, you see it, even when they kill it in the hallway or in the alleyway.

01:04:08.000 Spoiler alert.

01:04:09.000 Yeah.

01:04:10.000 That, you know, you only see it for a couple seconds when it stares at her, and then they gun it down.

01:04:15.000 Yeah, that was like the heyday for effects.

01:04:17.000 Everybody I know who does effects, it was like the thing, American Werewolf in London, or the howling was like the thing that made every...

01:04:23.000 And Fangoria when that started, and you started really getting articles and stuff, and like Rob Bottin and Rick Baker became like rock stars to the horror nerds.

01:04:30.000 Well, the Rick Baker scene when he transforms into the werewolf in the chick's apartment, when he's in the nurse's apartment for the first time, and he's like, I'm fucking burning up!

01:04:41.000 Ah!

01:04:42.000 His back is popping.

01:04:44.000 And it's like bright.

01:04:45.000 It's a bright lit apartment.

01:04:46.000 That's what makes it weird.

01:04:47.000 Yes, and the hands stretch.

01:04:48.000 Ah!

01:04:50.000 Fucking wild man to this day.

01:04:52.000 So weird.

01:04:53.000 And then he tried to kind of recreate the actual makeup style werewolf with the Wolfman, with Benicio Del Toro.

01:05:03.000 Yeah.

01:05:04.000 But it just wasn't there.

01:05:06.000 The movie wasn't there.

01:05:07.000 It just wasn't quite good enough.

01:05:11.000 But there's one fucking badass scene where it becomes the Wolfman when they're in the insane asylum and they're doing tests on him.

01:05:18.000 Do you remember that film?

01:05:19.000 I don't remember that film that much.

01:05:21.000 I hate saying things because this was my thought at the time.

01:05:25.000 I remember watching it thinking, Benicio de Toro seems like he doesn't want to be in this movie.

01:05:30.000 Which is such a stupid thing for me to say because I don't know what the fuck he wants.

01:05:34.000 Because I think he's a brilliant actor and I really like watching it.

01:05:37.000 But it just had that feeling like I don't know what it was.

01:05:40.000 And I've talked to people connected with that movie and I don't think it was a great experience for people for some reason.

01:05:45.000 Maybe there's a lot of meddling.

01:05:47.000 Probably a lot of meddling.

01:05:49.000 Is that something that's a difficult thing to manage or do you not have to deal with that anymore?

01:05:53.000 I had to deal with that a lot when I made the two Halloween movies for Weinstein Company.

01:05:58.000 Because they're this gigantic franchise.

01:06:00.000 Well, there was weird meddling.

01:06:02.000 It was just kind of psychotic meddling.

01:06:05.000 How so?

01:06:06.000 Just weird.

01:06:07.000 Like, my phone was ringing all the time when I'm on set working, and it'd be like, we think it should be this.

01:06:13.000 I'm like...

01:06:14.000 While you're working?

01:06:14.000 Yeah.

01:06:15.000 Well, if I did that, then everything we shot doesn't match.

01:06:19.000 And it makes no sense.

01:06:21.000 It's just like...

01:06:21.000 They're doing coke and just coming up like this.

01:06:23.000 I don't know.

01:06:23.000 It's just weird thoughts all the time.

01:06:25.000 But I mean, a lot of times...

01:06:27.000 I don't want to name all these names of people, but I remember working on one movie that never happened, and whatever was the number one movie from that weekend was exactly the notes I would get for what we were working on.

01:06:38.000 It didn't...

01:06:39.000 And I swear to you, because it was around the time of Private Parts, and Private Parts was number one.

01:06:43.000 I go, I guarantee you when I walk in the office, they're going to say, can we get Howard Stern in this movie?

01:06:47.000 And they did.

01:06:47.000 No!

01:06:48.000 Yes!

01:06:49.000 It didn't matter what it was.

01:06:50.000 If it was Starship Troopers, you go, can we get giant bugs in this movie suddenly?

01:06:53.000 It wasn't the Halloween movies.

01:06:54.000 It was another movie that never actually happened.

01:06:56.000 And you're just like, this is insanity.

01:06:58.000 The uncreative executive that wants to be creative, that is a classic story in Hollywood.

01:07:03.000 I mean, that's really like a villain in a film about a guy trying to make a movie.

01:07:08.000 Yeah, I mean, I always thought, I will give credit for things, like, I remember working with Bob Weinstein, and I always thought, like, the first thing he would say was spot on.

01:07:18.000 Like, they love movies, and they have a good sense of movies.

01:07:21.000 And he would say something, he'd be like, eh, that...

01:07:25.000 What happens between the second act and the third act?

01:07:27.000 It's a bunch of bullshit.

01:07:28.000 It doesn't work.

01:07:29.000 And you go, yeah, you're right it is.

01:07:31.000 But like when he went to the next level of the detail of what's wrong with it, it's kind of like someone going like, that joke's not funny.

01:07:37.000 Here's how it would be funny.

01:07:39.000 And you're like, no, no, no.

01:07:40.000 The first part of your sentence was all he needed.

01:07:43.000 I don't need you now to tell me how to make it funny.

01:07:45.000 And that's what happens.

01:07:46.000 I don't do them anymore, but back when I would be forced to do test screenings, With an audience?

01:07:52.000 Just sitting there, you'll know.

01:07:53.000 You'll go, okay, they're bored during this part.

01:07:55.000 It's boring.

01:07:56.000 Or they're not laughing.

01:07:57.000 It's supposed to be funny.

01:07:58.000 I don't now need that kid to get up and explain to the studio how to save the picture because he watched a movie once.

01:08:07.000 So the process is like half good and half insanity.

01:08:12.000 Do you get any people upset that in some way you might be glorifying violence?

01:08:19.000 Maybe, but I never hear about it, because I don't think that's true.

01:08:23.000 I mean, or if it is true, I don't think it matters.

01:08:28.000 Really?

01:08:29.000 Because it's fake.

01:08:30.000 It's not real.

01:08:31.000 Right.

01:08:31.000 I mean, it's like, I don't think the rules of real life apply to art.

01:08:37.000 I just don't.

01:08:38.000 Right.

01:08:39.000 Because that's why art exists.

01:08:41.000 Just like, you know...

01:08:44.000 And you just have to feel that way because it's like, okay, well, if we're going to run every movie through the PC filter, then in American History X, Edward Norton can't be racist.

01:08:54.000 And now we actually don't have a movie.

01:08:57.000 Or Travis Bickle can't kill anyone.

01:09:01.000 He just has to save Jodie Foster because he's a nice person.

01:09:04.000 It ruins everything.

01:09:07.000 But the rules of real life are different.

01:09:08.000 But for fiction, I mean, they can't be rules.

01:09:11.000 Yeah.

01:09:12.000 And how else are you going to depict these absolutely possible scenarios?

01:09:17.000 Like if we're saying that there isn't homicidal maniacs in real life, that's nonsense.

01:09:22.000 So if you're allowed to make a depiction of real life, of course it's going to have to include… Racists, murderers, psychopaths, everything.

01:09:32.000 And I just think it's, you know, it's art, and it can go anywhere, and it's always, if it's shocking, that's probably good, and it won't be shocking next year, like how...

01:09:39.000 Right.

01:09:40.000 Whatever you're showing your kids at one point was shocking, and now they're like, seriously, Dad?

01:09:43.000 Yeah, we were talking about Jaws.

01:09:46.000 Jaws today, apparently, would be PG. It was PG then.

01:09:50.000 Was it?

01:09:51.000 Can you believe that?

01:09:52.000 No.

01:09:52.000 Yeah.

01:09:53.000 Was it?

01:09:53.000 It was.

01:09:54.000 Oh, my God.

01:09:55.000 It was just shocking, especially...

01:09:57.000 Scared the fuck out of everybody.

01:09:58.000 I know.

01:09:59.000 But that's because my parents took us to see it, which was awesome, but I was traumatized for sure.

01:10:05.000 Yeah, that was a crazy movie.

01:10:06.000 I didn't want to have anything to do with the water after that movie.

01:10:09.000 Yeah, I still don't.

01:10:10.000 But the special effects as well, man, when that shark rises out of the water for the first time...

01:10:15.000 When he's throwing the chum in the water, why don't you come on down here and chump some of this shit? 1.00

01:10:18.000 We're going to need a bigger boat.

01:10:20.000 It's hard to believe those lines were once just lines in a script.

01:10:24.000 Yeah, I know they're iconic.

01:10:25.000 They're a part of culture now.

01:10:27.000 It's amazing.

01:10:28.000 Yeah.

01:10:28.000 Is there a style of film or a kind of movie that you want to do that you haven't done yet that you're thinking you'd like to get into?

01:10:37.000 I mean, there's two different projects I tried to develop for a long time and they both failed.

01:10:43.000 To get off the ground.

01:10:44.000 One was this movie called The Broad Street Bullies.

01:10:47.000 And it was about the 1974 Philadelphia Flyers.

01:10:51.000 And the movie is – the true story is so insane that you can't believe it's real.

01:10:57.000 Just the way that they decided – you know, they're a fledgling team.

01:11:00.000 Nobody cared.

01:11:01.000 So they basically built a team of tough guys, you know, which is kind of like slapshots almost like the same – I'm too sick to play when we get to Philly.

01:11:26.000 They literally go into the crowd and they're fighting with fans.

01:11:29.000 They come off the ice.

01:11:31.000 They break up.

01:11:32.000 I mean, when the guys are fighting, it's not, and it doesn't seem like good natured, like, okay, we're going to go, we're going to go.

01:11:36.000 It seems like gripping someone's hair and punching them in the face till their teeth are all gone type fighting.

01:11:42.000 Cops are breaking up the fights on the ice.

01:11:45.000 Cops.

01:11:47.000 With skates?

01:11:48.000 No.

01:11:50.000 Uniformed policemen come onto the ice and start breaking things up.

01:11:53.000 Right, but they're sliding around with their regular shoes.

01:11:55.000 It's all on YouTube.

01:11:56.000 It's amazing.

01:11:57.000 I mean, I researched this for years.

01:12:01.000 And then they just, you know, and Bobby Clark at that time was like the most hated man in hockey.

01:12:06.000 I don't know if you're a hockey fan at all, but he was just like, another one of those guys who he had, I don't know, I could go on forever for a movie that didn't make, but I kept trying to make it go and go, and it just never, you could just never, and I went to Philadelphia and I was hanging out with the team and I was in their archives and having access to everything.

01:12:23.000 I thought, this is going to happen and just couldn't, it wouldn't move.

01:12:26.000 Why not?

01:12:27.000 I don't know.

01:12:27.000 I don't know if the team and the team owners want to glorify that time in the...

01:12:34.000 There's an amazing documentary on it that was on HBO maybe like five years ago.

01:12:40.000 You've got to watch it.

01:12:41.000 Do you remember the name?

01:12:42.000 It might have been called Broad Street Bullies because the spectrum was on Broad Street.

01:12:47.000 So that's how they got the name.

01:12:48.000 But it's nuts.

01:12:49.000 And it was like Dave Schultz and he's wearing like a Nazi helmet and he was the tough guy on the team that everybody was petrified of.

01:12:56.000 These guys had really long hair and big beards.

01:12:59.000 I mean, this is not like hockey now.

01:13:00.000 Everybody looked like a maniac.

01:13:03.000 And they'd get stuff like, you know, you'd see them get stitches, get hit, get stitched, go back on the ice with the stitches.

01:13:09.000 There's jerseys covered in blood and they don't even change their jersey.

01:13:13.000 They're playing covered in blood.

01:13:15.000 Well, it's such a crazy sport.

01:13:16.000 Something they never do now.

01:13:17.000 Well, the sport still to this day is such a throwback because it's the only sport where you're allowed to fight in the middle of the sport.

01:13:23.000 Can you imagine if they had that with basketball?

01:13:25.000 Hockey players are the toughest motherfuckers because I always loved hockey.

01:13:29.000 I wanted to be a hockey player when I was a little kid, and that was my thing.

01:13:33.000 And for a long time, me and my wife, we had season tickets for the Kings, so we'd go to every single game, year after year after year, and we'd always hang out with the team, and they'd come to our house and then party, and we'd always be with them in Vegas.

01:13:43.000 And And they're like football players on skates.

01:13:46.000 And they're all for these guys from Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, and they kick their teeth out and they get crazy in the bar.

01:13:53.000 They're like mental.

01:13:54.000 And they're just like, who else is skating at 90 miles an hour crashing into boards that just have no give?

01:14:00.000 But it's so interesting that it's the one sport where it's written in that you can fight.

01:14:06.000 They fight.

01:14:06.000 I mean, it's...

01:14:08.000 So funny.

01:14:08.000 It's so crazy.

01:14:09.000 Like, that would make so many sports so much more interesting, but nobody would ever do it.

01:14:14.000 Yeah.

01:14:14.000 It's literally the tough guy sport.

01:14:16.000 It is the tough guy sport, and the thing that always drove me crazy, like...

01:14:19.000 It drove me crazy.

01:14:20.000 Like, it involves me.

01:14:21.000 But they would always advertise the LA Kings as, like, it's like this family thing.

01:14:25.000 Like, oh, come on down and cheer for the Kings.

01:14:28.000 And it'd be, like, a girl in a hockey jersey on the billboards around the time.

01:14:31.000 Like, you should just put up mugshot-style portraits of the players, like, smiling with their teeth missing.

01:14:36.000 And it just says, you think you're a fucking tough?

01:14:38.000 Right.

01:14:39.000 Kings.

01:14:40.000 And it's not like the old days where they're kind of, like, skillful.

01:14:43.000 They're, like...

01:14:44.000 This guy's like six foot five and you put them on skates and they're huge and they're all jacked up and big like football players except they're on skates.

01:14:55.000 I think it'll be a hard sell for a lot of people.

01:14:57.000 But what's not a hard sell is MMA, which is weird, right?

01:15:01.000 Because that's like the darling of so many.

01:15:04.000 You go to the fights and Matt Damon will be there and Leonardo DiCaprio and everybody wants to be seen there and Kanye's in the crowd.

01:15:11.000 It's one of those things where people have decided, like, that's okay.

01:15:14.000 Meanwhile, they're smashing their faces open with elbows on the ground.

01:15:19.000 It's mental, man.

01:15:19.000 Heads trapped against the cage and they're pummeling each other and it's okay.

01:15:23.000 And you watch it, they break it up like, I'm pretty sure that guy's already got brain damage.

01:15:27.000 You needed to stop that punching a few seconds earlier.

01:15:29.000 Well, it's okay, though.

01:15:31.000 It's a crazy sport.

01:15:32.000 Because it's become, like, that's what I'm saying, it's weird.

01:15:35.000 Like, a fight in a basketball game is a giant deal.

01:15:39.000 Like, oh my god, a fight broke out.

01:15:41.000 This is crazy, yeah.

01:15:42.000 If a guy, you know, like, judo tossed a guy and landed on his head.

01:15:47.000 Somebody did that recently in a hockey game.

01:15:49.000 It was awful.

01:15:49.000 Like, Robin Black did a breakdown of it where some guy got a guy in a clinch and hit him with a hip toss and slammed his head onto the concrete.

01:15:58.000 It was horrible.

01:15:59.000 It's weird.

01:15:59.000 I mean, I can see why they want...

01:16:02.000 I think they probably like hockey being more family-friendly because the arenas are so nice.

01:16:06.000 You know, bring the kids and they don't want a bunch of maniacs beating the shit out of each other. 0.99

01:16:10.000 But they can still fight.

01:16:10.000 Yeah.

01:16:11.000 They can still fight, but it is just...

01:16:12.000 There it is.

01:16:12.000 Watch this.

01:16:13.000 This is crazy.

01:16:14.000 Boom! 0.99

01:16:15.000 Oh, that's bad.

01:16:15.000 That's horrible.

01:16:16.000 That's an asshole move because that's not even fighting.

01:16:20.000 And plus, that guy landed with both of their weights, the guy's on his head, he's out cold.

01:16:25.000 I mean, that's like serious, serious fucking brain damage.

01:16:28.000 Yeah, I remember one time, one particular incident at the Kings game where the guy was out and it went on forever and the vibe was so heavy in the arena because we're like, is he dead?

01:16:38.000 Because, you know, when someone hits and they just stop moving in that way, it freaks you out.

01:16:44.000 You pull up some Broad Street Bullies fighting from 1974. Yeah, pull up some of that.

01:16:48.000 Yeah, I've seen so many.

01:16:49.000 Dave Schultz.

01:16:50.000 Oh, that's this thing.

01:16:51.000 Yeah, this is the documentary.

01:16:52.000 It's amazing.

01:16:53.000 Oh, look at the way they look back then.

01:16:55.000 Everything, it's like, back in the day, it's just such a weird thing to see people from that era.

01:17:04.000 Oh, here they are.

01:17:05.000 Yeah, they don't, this is like early days before they became insane.

01:17:09.000 Oh, so it built up?

01:17:10.000 Because what happened was when they were starting as a team, they got really manhandled one time by a certain team.

01:17:16.000 And they were like, this is never going to happen again.

01:17:18.000 And they rebuilt the team with basically thug-type guys.

01:17:22.000 I'm always amazed that anybody can punch while they're on skates.

01:17:26.000 I can't even skate.

01:17:28.000 How the fuck do you maintain your upright position?

01:17:30.000 I don't know.

01:17:30.000 These guys are amazing athletes.

01:17:32.000 One time I went down and got to skate at practice with the LA Kings with the guys who were injured.

01:17:37.000 Man, that rink seems small when those big guys all get on the ice.

01:17:41.000 It seems like, wow, there's no room up here.

01:17:44.000 But also, they collide into each other against the wall, which the amount of shock on your body.

01:17:49.000 I know.

01:17:50.000 It's amazing that I mean, they just go and go and go.

01:17:55.000 That's Dave Schultz.

01:17:56.000 Maybe we can reignite some interest with this conversation because I think that would be it.

01:18:01.000 Look, he's pulling his fucking hair.

01:18:02.000 Yeah.

01:18:02.000 Holy shit.

01:18:04.000 I'm going to watch that.

01:18:05.000 It's amazing.

01:18:06.000 So have you tried again recently?

01:18:08.000 No, I tried.

01:18:09.000 Do you really think that it's just like they just don't want to be connected to this story?

01:18:13.000 Well, there's this guy, Ed Snyder, who was the guy who started the whole team.

01:18:17.000 And I thought he was the reason it wasn't going to happen.

01:18:22.000 And then he passed away because, I mean, he was pretty old.

01:18:24.000 And then we started talking to the newer people and it just, I don't know, you're like, how many years of my life am I going to dictate, you know, put into this?

01:18:32.000 And someone said to me one time, well, you got further than anyone else ever did.

01:18:35.000 I'm like, how many times have they tried to make this movie?

01:18:37.000 Why didn't you warn me about that five years ago?

01:18:40.000 Is there any other kind of movie that you're interested in other than something like that?

01:18:45.000 Well, yeah, there was this other one that I worked on for a long time that never went either.

01:18:48.000 I had bought the rights to this book called Raised Eyebrows, which was about the last few years of Groucho Marx's life.

01:18:56.000 This guy, Steve Stolia, wrote it.

01:18:58.000 And he was a 19-year-old college kid Who started this petition drive.

01:19:04.000 Do you like the Marx Brothers?

01:19:06.000 Love them.

01:19:06.000 Yeah.

01:19:07.000 Because Animal Crackers had been lost.

01:19:10.000 That was the lost film.

01:19:11.000 I think it was at UCLA. Sorry, Steve.

01:19:13.000 I can't remember your college.

01:19:16.000 He started this petition drive to get Animal Crackers released from the vault and released.

01:19:20.000 Because it hadn't been seen since the 40s or something.

01:19:23.000 And he did.

01:19:23.000 This was in the early 70s.

01:19:26.000 And through that, he became Groucho's assistant.

01:19:30.000 But Groucho's final years are really dark because he kept having strokes and he was ill.

01:19:35.000 And he had this woman, Erin Fleming, who was supposed to be his – they kind of played it like it was his girlfriend, but she was sort of the caretaker.

01:19:41.000 And it turns into Sunset Boulevard inside his house, you know, and Steve eventually is put in charge of Groucho because it's a really dark story.

01:19:50.000 Turns into Sunset Boulevard, how so?

01:19:51.000 Because Groucho is being abused and drugged by this woman. 0.99

01:19:55.000 She isolated from his family and it's like happening in this Beverly Hills home and it's just dark.

01:20:00.000 It was dark towards the end for Groucho.

01:20:02.000 Really?

01:20:03.000 But the book was fascinating because the guy who wrote it, Steve, who's still alive, and we're friends.

01:20:09.000 It was one of those books you read in like five seconds.

01:20:11.000 And I just happened to find it by accident.

01:20:12.000 I was like, this is an amazing movie.

01:20:14.000 But again, years and years go on trying to get it made and just can't get it going.

01:20:18.000 Groucho was such a controversial character.

01:20:19.000 He had one of the greatest lines ever on You Bet Your Life.

01:20:22.000 He's talking to this guy, and he's asked the guy, like, you married?

01:20:27.000 Yes.

01:20:27.000 How many kids you got?

01:20:28.000 The cigar line.

01:20:29.000 Yeah.

01:20:29.000 The guy says he's got a gang of kids, and he goes, geez.

01:20:32.000 He goes, oh, I love my wife.

01:20:34.000 He goes, I love my cigar, too, but I take it out of my mouth every now and then.

01:20:37.000 Yeah.

01:20:37.000 That was a hugely controversial line.

01:20:41.000 Yeah, he was amazing.

01:20:43.000 Where's his eyebrows?

01:20:44.000 Yeah, there it is.

01:20:45.000 He was very outspoken.

01:20:46.000 He was on Nixon's shit list and stuff.

01:20:49.000 My years inside Groucho's house.

01:20:51.000 Wow.

01:20:52.000 It's really fast.

01:20:53.000 If you get that book, you'll read it in like two seconds.

01:20:55.000 It's always sad when some iconic old figure is being taken care of as he's older and you know he's getting fucked over and someone's waiting for him to die so they can get the money.

01:21:05.000 Yeah, and she kept kind of doing this thing like, we're going to make your comeback Groucho and we're going to do a TV special. 0.59

01:21:10.000 It's going to be like you and Frank Sinatra.

01:21:11.000 And Groucho's on his third stroke and can't really talk.

01:21:18.000 And a couple of the final appearances of him are pretty rough.

01:21:21.000 Because he was pretty sharp and good.

01:21:24.000 Even when he was older, we watched him on Dick Cavett or something.

01:21:26.000 But then it got bad.

01:21:28.000 And then, how did this lady get into his life? 0.92

01:21:32.000 How did that go down?

01:21:33.000 I'm trying to remember.

01:21:33.000 She was...

01:21:34.000 I think she was his secretary at first and just kind of weaseled her way in.

01:21:39.000 I can't remember exactly.

01:21:41.000 I should be able to remember.

01:21:42.000 I read the book so many times.

01:21:43.000 There's so many stories like that.

01:21:45.000 I think there was a Stan Lee story like that in his last few days.

01:21:50.000 That happens a lot.

01:21:51.000 Yeah, people were trying to get his money.

01:21:54.000 I remember that one, Martha Ray?

01:21:56.000 Yes.

01:21:57.000 That was like the thing towards the end with her.

01:21:58.000 It was like, oh, and her boyfriend.

01:21:59.000 And she's like this in a wheelchair. 0.81

01:22:01.000 Oh, that's right.

01:22:03.000 Weird shit.

01:22:04.000 And I was like, yeah.

01:22:06.000 Yeah, that is sad shit.

01:22:07.000 And their kids are done with them.

01:22:09.000 And so someone else is taking care of them.

01:22:11.000 Well, they're so old.

01:22:12.000 Their kids have all died of old age.

01:22:15.000 And this was like, you know.

01:22:17.000 So you wanted to do that film?

01:22:18.000 Yeah.

01:22:19.000 What happened with that?

01:22:20.000 It just couldn't get it going.

01:22:23.000 Every time it seemed like we were on the move, it just would stall.

01:22:27.000 Then I had a falling out with the producers, and I was like, you know, five years spent with this, I'm out.

01:22:34.000 Oh my god, the dream of time.

01:22:37.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

01:22:38.000 For every movie I've ever gotten made, there's probably five others that I tried to get made that couldn't get made.

01:22:44.000 It's a real time suck.

01:22:45.000 Yeah, that's a fucking huge drag, man.

01:22:49.000 Now, when you do get a film made, is it generally that you come to the studio and you have this idea and you bring it to them?

01:22:57.000 Yeah.

01:22:58.000 It's usually like...

01:23:01.000 Well, the Halloween movies were different because I remember I had no thought.

01:23:06.000 I wasn't thinking about Halloween.

01:23:07.000 I wasn't thinking about anything like that.

01:23:08.000 And I got the thing like, oh, you know, the Weinstein Company wants you to go have a meeting with him.

01:23:13.000 Bob Weinstein, he's in L.A., yada, yada, yada.

01:23:16.000 So I go in to meet him and he's just like, Halloween, what do you think?

01:23:19.000 I was like, oh, it's a great fucking movie.

01:23:21.000 I mean, I didn't know what he was getting at.

01:23:22.000 He's like, we own the rights and we want to do something with it.

01:23:24.000 We don't know what to do.

01:23:26.000 Because they didn't know if they wanted to make another sequel or just call it Halloween but not have Michael Myers.

01:23:31.000 There was no preconceived idea and it was my idea to basically try to reboot it, start over with new people playing all the same roles and do that.

01:23:39.000 And that was...

01:23:41.000 I don't know.

01:23:42.000 It came out in 2007, so it was probably 2006 when I did that.

01:23:45.000 Who was involved in the more recent one?

01:23:48.000 Lion's Gate is the company that did Three from Hell.

01:23:51.000 Because I had done, after Universal booted me with House of a Thousand Corpses, it was eventually acquired by Lion's Gate.

01:23:57.000 And Lion's Gate made the sequel, Devil's Rejects, which was already 15 years ago.

01:24:01.000 And a couple years ago, I got a real bug to make another one, and I just went into Lion's Gate.

01:24:05.000 And there was the same executive still there, and I was like, what do you think about doing this?

01:24:08.000 And they were saying, you know what, that was the last really fun time we had making a movie.

01:24:13.000 Let's do it.

01:24:14.000 LAUGHTER That's gotta feel good.

01:24:17.000 Yeah, it was great.

01:24:17.000 I was like, wow, that's sad, but okay.

01:24:21.000 Now, do you have long-term plans in terms of what you want to accomplish as a guy who makes movies?

01:24:28.000 Well, yes and no.

01:24:30.000 I mean, I don't have a...

01:24:31.000 I'm not trying to gear up towards making bigger films because I know I wouldn't work in that system because it's just not...

01:24:37.000 I don't want to make things by committee.

01:24:39.000 I want to go like, this is the fucked up crazy thing I want to do and I don't want to water...

01:24:43.000 Because I know so many people...

01:24:45.000 That'll be like our friend Tom Papa.

01:24:48.000 I remember him telling me about his TV show, Come to Papa.

01:24:52.000 It was like this certain idea.

01:24:56.000 He said, by the time the TV people watered it down and changed it, it gets on the air.

01:25:01.000 It's like, well, it's so far removed from the original idea that I don't want to do that.

01:25:08.000 My goal is just get it made.

01:25:11.000 Whatever it takes.

01:25:13.000 Don't try to be blockbuster guy.

01:25:15.000 I don't care.

01:25:16.000 I mean, you know, the Halloween movies were on 4,000 screens.

01:25:19.000 It was like the number one movie.

01:25:20.000 But it didn't make me any happier.

01:25:21.000 It's just about making the thing where I can look at it and go, I love it.

01:25:24.000 I'm done.

01:25:25.000 Because, you know, at this stage, that's what I want to do.

01:25:28.000 Yeah, the genre is still so attractive, but there's just not a lot of those examples, other than like, well, your films are probably the most prominent currently.

01:25:41.000 Well, I mean, if everything's meant, I mean, horror movies are big business, but if they look at it that way, then they start making them...

01:25:49.000 Overly palatable to a wide audience.

01:25:51.000 There's types of horror movies, though.

01:25:52.000 You know, there's like supernatural horror movies, there's monster movies, but then there's like homicidal maniac movies.

01:25:58.000 There's so much stuff.

01:25:59.000 And you kind of own that shit.

01:26:01.000 Redneck homicides, that's my genre. 1.00

01:26:03.000 I mean, who's got it?

01:26:04.000 You know, it's like the hills have eyes.

01:26:06.000 Yeah, right.

01:26:06.000 And then you.

01:26:07.000 There you go.

01:26:08.000 Hills have eyes.

01:26:08.000 You know what I mean?

01:26:09.000 It's like that kind of psychopath, chainsaw massacre type shit.

01:26:14.000 I love white trash type stuff.

01:26:18.000 Well, the carny background.

01:26:20.000 Because that's just...

01:26:21.000 I was that typical kid who worshipped Evel Knievel.

01:26:25.000 Oh, yeah.

01:26:26.000 Maybe that would be a fucking movie, man.

01:26:28.000 That would be a movie.

01:26:29.000 That'd be a fucking movie, man.

01:26:30.000 I worked with his son.

01:26:31.000 I worked with...

01:26:33.000 Robbie Knievel?

01:26:34.000 Robbie Knievel during the Fear Factor days.

01:26:36.000 Oh, really?

01:26:36.000 Yeah, he did something on Fear Factor.

01:26:38.000 Yeah, it was cool.

01:26:40.000 He's a nice guy.

01:26:41.000 But, you know, I was like, damn, dude, your dad was a fucking psycho. 0.57

01:26:45.000 Yeah.

01:26:46.000 Shit that that guy subjected his body to.

01:26:48.000 It's crazy.

01:26:48.000 And when you watch that shit, and you watch the Philadelphia Flyers, that time in the 70s was fucking mental.

01:26:54.000 It was mental.

01:26:55.000 And you're just a little kid watching Evil Knievel and listening to Alice Cooper and watching hockey fights, and that determines who you become.

01:27:01.000 Yeah, Evel Knievel was just... 0.96

01:27:03.000 I mean, there's a...

01:27:05.000 I think it was a Rolling Stone piece of his body where they showed all of his x-rays and all of the bone breaks and steel rods that were...

01:27:15.000 various bones that were screwed together.

01:27:18.000 I'm like, fuck, man.

01:27:20.000 What kind of pain was this guy in?

01:27:21.000 I don't know.

01:27:22.000 I mean, did you see...

01:27:22.000 There's a fairly new documentary.

01:27:24.000 I think it's called Being Knievel.

01:27:26.000 I think.

01:27:26.000 It's amazing.

01:27:28.000 Well, it's maybe a couple years old, actually.

01:27:30.000 But...

01:27:32.000 Yeah, just any one of those crashes.

01:27:34.000 I think this is a famous one in London, and he jumps over the double-decker buses.

01:27:37.000 And you can see him land, and the bike looks like it's made out of rubber, and he looks like he's made out of rubber.

01:27:43.000 It looks like every bone in his body just broke.

01:27:47.000 And that's going to do it again and do it again.

01:27:50.000 Oh, God.

01:27:51.000 I mean, that was his thing.

01:27:52.000 Imagine that being your thing.

01:27:54.000 Your thing is you fly through the air on something that's supposed to stay on the ground.

01:27:57.000 A full-size Harley that's not made for jumping or doing anything or landing, for that matter.

01:28:04.000 It doesn't have any particularly bouncy shocks or anything.

01:28:08.000 It's just hitting like boom!

01:28:10.000 Ka-dunk! 1.00

01:28:11.000 Oh my god.

01:28:13.000 It's a weird thing to be that guy because there was some people in the past that had done some pretty interesting shit and risked their lives, but He was doing it consistently with an engine.

01:28:28.000 That was like the thing about him.

01:28:30.000 And he was like one of the most famous people in America.

01:28:33.000 Yeah, with an American flag suit.

01:28:35.000 Yeah, it was like the Fonz and Evel Knievel, you know?

01:28:39.000 There he is.

01:28:40.000 Being Knievel.

01:28:41.000 You've got to see that if you haven't seen it.

01:28:42.000 Wow.

01:28:43.000 It's amazing.

01:28:44.000 Wow.

01:28:45.000 Yeah, what a crazy character.

01:28:46.000 And there's stuff in there that kind of blew my mind because we all remember the Snake River Canyon thing.

01:28:50.000 Yes.

01:28:50.000 But they were showing how out of control it was with the people that showed up and were so drunk and the crowds were fighting and crazy just on their own.

01:29:02.000 It's mental.

01:29:04.000 Like just what was going on around the event.

01:29:07.000 That's one of those things you can't really do today the same way.

01:29:11.000 Like, if someone jumps over things today, it's like so many people are jumping.

01:29:15.000 Like, you're not going to get famous that way.

01:29:16.000 Because, like, think about just the bananas shit those BMX guys do, where they're flipping three times in the air.

01:29:22.000 It's commonplace, almost.

01:29:24.000 Yeah, no, watching Evel Knievel is like watching the original King Kong with your kids.

01:29:27.000 Right, right.

01:29:28.000 Like, oh, that was a big deal once?

01:29:30.000 He jumped seven buses, whatever, I did it on my bike.

01:29:33.000 Yeah, that would be a great film.

01:29:35.000 I don't know what you have to do now, catch bullets with your bare hands or something?

01:29:43.000 Well, now there's people doing parkour and climbing buildings with no ropes.

01:29:49.000 You ever watch that kid, Alex Honnold?

01:29:51.000 Do you know who he is?

01:29:52.000 No.

01:29:52.000 He's the free solo guy?

01:29:53.000 Oh, the free solo guy, yeah.

01:29:55.000 I still haven't seen that yet, but everyone tells me.

01:29:57.000 He's so nice and so normal.

01:29:59.000 When you talk to him, I've had him on the podcast a couple of times, and I'm like, how are you the guy that's wanting to climb the face of these fucking clowns?

01:30:08.000 And some of them, they're not straight up and down.

01:30:12.000 They're leaning backwards.

01:30:13.000 He's got hands wedged in these cracks.

01:30:16.000 Look at that picture.

01:30:17.000 That doesn't make you shit your pants.

01:30:20.000 And he's getting older, and he's starting to get injured now, too.

01:30:24.000 And for the first time in his life, he's had...

01:30:28.000 You know, for a long time.

01:30:30.000 He had no injuries, no problems, and he's been doing this a long time now.

01:30:34.000 His body's not holding up the way it used to.

01:30:36.000 When do you retire?

01:30:37.000 Like, when are you Muhammad Ali or Evil Knievel and you know it's time to stop?

01:30:40.000 When the fingers slip, son.

01:30:42.000 That's when you retire.

01:30:44.000 I mean, that's what all of the people that have done it before him think.

01:30:48.000 They think, look, this is going to end badly.

01:30:51.000 It's crazy to be known as the guy who's doing something that scares the fuck out of everybody.

01:30:58.000 You're the guy that everybody's watching to eventually fall.

01:31:00.000 Look at that.

01:31:01.000 Look at the angle.

01:31:03.000 Yeah, that doesn't even seem possible.

01:31:04.000 Well, he's incredibly strong.

01:31:06.000 His hands, like, he's a slender, thin guy, but he has gorilla hands.

01:31:11.000 Yeah.

01:31:12.000 They're fat-ass fingers, and he just can shove them into these cracks and hang on in place.

01:31:17.000 He was telling me a story about how he was free solo climbing this one mountain when he realized, you know, like, fucking 300 feet up that he forgot his powder.

01:31:26.000 Huh.

01:31:27.000 So he's got no chalk.

01:31:29.000 So he's, you know, things are getting slippery.

01:31:32.000 He's climbing and he finds these guys that are connected to ropes halfway up.

01:31:37.000 And he says, hey, I don't have any powder.

01:31:39.000 Can I borrow your chalk?

01:31:40.000 So the guy gives him his chalk bag.

01:31:42.000 He makes it all the way to the top and leaves the chalk bag at the top for the guy.

01:31:46.000 It's like, what?

01:31:47.000 I wonder if those guys are like, that guy doesn't have any ropes.

01:31:49.000 As he's going by.

01:31:50.000 No ropes or chalk.

01:31:51.000 He doesn't have any fucking chalk.

01:31:53.000 If you ever lifted weights, that bar gets slippery.

01:31:57.000 It sucks.

01:31:57.000 You need chalk to grip things right so you can really get a hold of stuff.

01:32:03.000 But that's just weights.

01:32:05.000 You could put the weights down.

01:32:06.000 The worst fall is going to be three feet to the floor.

01:32:09.000 Fuck.

01:32:10.000 I can't even watch his stuff.

01:32:12.000 My hands are sweating right now thinking about it.

01:32:15.000 I haven't watched that, but I got to.

01:32:17.000 Everyone's always talking about it.

01:32:18.000 No, it's an amazing documentary, but he's just a fascinating guy because it doesn't make sense.

01:32:24.000 He's not like some Steve-O type guy who's just a maniac and just like always trying to freak people out and do the next thing.

01:32:31.000 No, he's a real guy.

01:32:31.000 I'm putting a rocket on a sharpened cart and crashing into a brick wall.

01:32:35.000 Exactly!

01:32:36.000 When Steve-O comes up with ideas, he'll tell them to me.

01:32:39.000 I'm like, don't do that.

01:32:40.000 Don't do that, man.

01:32:42.000 Stop doing that.

01:32:44.000 But I get it.

01:32:45.000 That's who he is.

01:32:46.000 He's a legitimate bona fide maniac.

01:32:49.000 The Alex Honnold guy is so calm and peaceful.

01:32:53.000 You know, he said, like, he's like, well, you know, I'm pretty mellow.

01:32:57.000 You know, it's like when the whole thing is pretty mellow.

01:33:00.000 It's like when things go wrong, that's when it's not mellow.

01:33:03.000 I'm like, oh, God.

01:33:04.000 Yeah, that's kind of how everything is.

01:33:09.000 So do you see things like that, like current events stuff, or like a person like him and think, hmm, is that a movie?

01:33:16.000 Is there a movie in that?

01:33:17.000 Like...

01:33:18.000 Sometimes I see things.

01:33:19.000 I'm trying to think the last time I thought that.

01:33:21.000 And I'm always late.

01:33:23.000 Like you'll go, oh, I just saw that.

01:33:25.000 Oh, it's already in production.

01:33:27.000 I'm never ahead of the curve enough to be on top of it.

01:33:30.000 That's a bummer.

01:33:30.000 You know?

01:33:31.000 Yeah.

01:33:32.000 But, no, there's all kinds of things like that that I would love to do, but it's like, it just...

01:33:36.000 I don't know.

01:33:39.000 It's...

01:33:39.000 The time, sometimes, I just...

01:33:41.000 Like I said, I told you two projects that took so much of my life.

01:33:45.000 I mean, I sat there and watched the...

01:33:48.000 Because the whole Flyers movie ended with them winning the cup the first time.

01:33:52.000 And I watched that series...

01:33:55.000 I got all the games with all the original commercials, which were incredible.

01:33:59.000 The commercials of Salvador Dali selling house paint, like weird shit.

01:34:04.000 And I had the whole series memorized.

01:34:07.000 I could have called the commentary on it.

01:34:09.000 I watched thousands of hours of watching this hockey.

01:34:12.000 Because I was like, if I'm going to make this movie, I'm going to be the number one Phillies expert on everything.

01:34:17.000 I don't want anyone to say anything.

01:34:18.000 I'm like, oh, gee, I don't know.

01:34:19.000 No, I can't remember anything.

01:34:20.000 And then it was all for nothing.

01:34:23.000 That's the way things are anyway, though.

01:34:26.000 So you invested too much.

01:34:30.000 Yeah, but you kind of had to because it's like I figured with a topic like that they have such – the fans are – I mean they're like that.

01:34:39.000 They're like gods in Philadelphia.

01:34:41.000 I mean the best thing – just think of this as a movie.

01:34:44.000 Okay, just this one scene.

01:34:45.000 When they introduced the team in Philly, I think it was 1967, they had a parade to introduce them because hockey was coming to town.

01:34:52.000 They said they had a parade with the players and there was like maybe no one there to watch the parade.

01:34:57.000 And even one of the guys goes, all I remember is a guy leaning on the lamppost giving me the finger as the parade went by.

01:35:03.000 And then when they won the Stanley Cup, they had a parade.

01:35:06.000 Two million people showed up in the streets of Philadelphia.

01:35:10.000 And the footage of that, if you can find it while you're over there, the entire, you know, like 100,000 people show up for the Lakers and everyone goes crazy.

01:35:16.000 Two million people is four Woodstocks. 0.99

01:35:20.000 In the streets?

01:35:21.000 In the streets of Philadelphia to watch a team drive by in the back of convertibles.

01:35:27.000 They all look like porn stars because they're on fur coats and big mustaches and big afros.

01:35:31.000 They're amazing.

01:35:33.000 And that was such a short period of time.

01:35:35.000 That was maybe like seven years from go fuck yourself to you guys are Philadelphia.

01:35:41.000 Wow.

01:35:42.000 And it was all during that time period when they made Rocky.

01:35:44.000 So Philadelphia was like...

01:35:45.000 The shithole of America.

01:35:47.000 And every sports team was bad.

01:35:50.000 The real life story just reads like fiction.

01:35:53.000 Look at that.

01:35:54.000 Here's the footage.

01:35:55.000 Holy shit.

01:35:56.000 Look at all those people.

01:35:56.000 And that was the entire parade road.

01:35:58.000 People were hanging out of buildings.

01:36:01.000 That's when they won the game.

01:36:02.000 It was just incredible.

01:36:03.000 Wow.

01:36:04.000 Well, growing up in Boston, believe it or not, I wasn't a hockey fan.

01:36:09.000 I worship the Bruins.

01:36:11.000 I didn't.

01:36:12.000 I was just into martial arts, and I didn't even like sports.

01:36:17.000 I found out about martial arts, really, the school that I wound up going to because I was coming home from a Red Sox game.

01:36:23.000 I was into baseball at the time.

01:36:25.000 And I went up to this gym and this martial arts, this Taekwondo school, and I happened to be going there right when this guy, his name was John Lee, was practicing.

01:36:34.000 And he was a light heavyweight champion at the time.

01:36:38.000 And just incredible.

01:36:39.000 And I got to see him hit this bag, and I remember thinking, I can't believe someone can do that.

01:36:44.000 Like, he hit it so hard.

01:36:45.000 He was kicking this bag, and I was like, fuck, I want to learn how to do that.

01:36:49.000 What year was that?

01:36:50.000 This was 19, I was 15?

01:36:54.000 14, 15?

01:36:55.000 So 81, 82?

01:36:56.000 Somewhere around there.

01:36:57.000 Okay.

01:36:58.000 And when I was 19 years old, so I really wasn't paying attention at all to sports.

01:37:05.000 I was balls into martial arts.

01:37:07.000 But I was working at the Boston Athletic Club.

01:37:09.000 And Bobby Orr, who was long retired, used to come there to work out.

01:37:14.000 Oh, yeah.

01:37:14.000 And he had had so many knee surgeries.

01:37:18.000 Oh, it was terrible.

01:37:19.000 That I used to have to help him.

01:37:21.000 I mean, everybody was like, holy shit, it's Bobby Orr!

01:37:23.000 Bobby Orr's here!

01:37:25.000 Bobby Orr!

01:37:25.000 It's fucking Bobby Orr!

01:37:26.000 I kind of knew he was Bobby Orr, but it wasn't like I was meeting Bruce Lee or something.

01:37:32.000 If I was meeting Bruce Lee, I probably would have fainted.

01:37:34.000 But it was this hockey player guy, and I used to have to help him to get on the VersaClimber.

01:37:40.000 You know what a VersaClimber is?

01:37:41.000 No.

01:37:41.000 There's one of them out there in the gym.

01:37:43.000 You climb on it.

01:37:44.000 It's an amazing cardio machine.

01:37:46.000 But you put your feet in these things.

01:37:48.000 It was in Rocky.

01:37:49.000 Oh yeah, he's in Russia.

01:37:52.000 Drago was working on it.

01:37:54.000 But Bobby wanted to get on this thing, so I used to have to help him.

01:37:58.000 Because he couldn't bend his knees.

01:37:59.000 His knees, like the range of motion, like here's a leg, here's a normal range of motion, right?

01:38:05.000 His knees would go like this.

01:38:06.000 They wouldn't lock all the way out.

01:38:07.000 They would bend slightly, and they would move from this bent slightly to this.

01:38:12.000 That's all he had.

01:38:13.000 That's crazy.

01:38:14.000 He had a little bit of bend in his knees.

01:38:16.000 That's it.

01:38:16.000 Yeah.

01:38:17.000 He would play racquetball, and he would just fall over.

01:38:21.000 So he'd play racket, but the ball was over here.

01:38:23.000 He would just tip and fall over.

01:38:25.000 It was like he was on these legs that weren't legs.

01:38:29.000 It was like he was on sticks.

01:38:30.000 They just didn't work.

01:38:32.000 I remember seeing the scars up and down the sides of his legs.

01:38:36.000 Yeah, I remember seeing those as a kid.

01:38:38.000 You'd see pictures.

01:38:39.000 I followed the Bruins, so I was always into Bobby Orton.

01:38:41.000 He probably always was back on the ice too soon.

01:38:44.000 Another injury.

01:38:45.000 Stitch him up.

01:38:46.000 They didn't know how to fix things back then either.

01:38:49.000 And he's so incredible.

01:38:50.000 Bobby Orr was like, at that time, like if young Brad Pitt was the greatest hockey player of all time.

01:38:56.000 I mean, he didn't even seem real.

01:38:57.000 Right.

01:38:58.000 You know, he's like the golden boy.

01:38:59.000 And I keep making you pull up hockey clips, but like you see some clips and it's like, the way he's skating compared to everyone else, it's like...

01:39:07.000 Did everyone else just learn that day?

01:39:10.000 Like, he's just skating around him like they don't even exist.

01:39:13.000 It's just like, and as a kid, you're like, this is the greatest person alive.

01:39:17.000 Well, that's probably also why he blew his knees out, right?

01:39:21.000 Because he was just, he was taking these crazy risks and moving so fast.

01:39:26.000 Probably, yeah.

01:39:26.000 I mean, he was just...

01:39:27.000 And people were probably trying to take him out left and right, too.

01:39:30.000 Yeah, I mean, he...

01:39:32.000 Well, the thing with him, too, he was a defenseman.

01:39:35.000 Not a forward.

01:39:36.000 So he would play like a forward, but he would be a defenseman.

01:39:38.000 So he's supposed to be the tough guy defending the goalie, yet he's like a leading scorer.

01:39:44.000 So he was sort of too good for everything.

01:39:47.000 So he's taking all the hits and scoring all the goals.

01:39:51.000 He was such a nice guy.

01:39:52.000 I remember thinking that, too.

01:39:53.000 When I was a kid, I always used to be intimidated by people who were really nice guys.

01:39:57.000 I was like, how is he so nice?

01:39:59.000 Because I was kind of a prick.

01:40:03.000 It was driving me crazy.

01:40:05.000 I felt inferior.

01:40:07.000 I was like, God, I wish I was that nice.

01:40:10.000 I was mean.

01:40:12.000 I was a mean kid because I was fighting and I was like, the way to fight is to be mean.

01:40:16.000 Yeah.

01:40:16.000 Like, you want to get good at fighting?

01:40:17.000 You got to be fucking mean.

01:40:19.000 Yeah.

01:40:19.000 So, by then, I'm five years into fighting and that's all I want to do.

01:40:23.000 And so, I'm around this guy.

01:40:25.000 I feel like, God, he's so, he's so nice and he's like the greatest hockey player of all time.

01:40:29.000 Like, Fuck!

01:40:30.000 I'm such a loser.

01:40:33.000 Yeah, it's funny.

01:40:35.000 I remember in high school, the kids that would always be in the fights and kick everyone's ass, they're like, you can't compete with that.

01:40:40.000 He's just born crazy.

01:40:41.000 He likes to fight.

01:40:43.000 If you punch him in the face, it'll probably make him happy.

01:40:46.000 After he smashes your head into the sink and, you know, kills you.

01:40:50.000 It's just like, yeah, it's just a different way people...

01:40:52.000 Well, I never got into...

01:40:53.000 I wasn't really a street fight person at all.

01:40:55.000 I was scared of it.

01:40:56.000 That's how I got into martial arts, because I was scared of fighting.

01:40:59.000 But the difference between people that were like a Bobby Orr or a regular player always fascinated me.

01:41:08.000 I was like, how is one guy Michael Jordan?

01:41:11.000 How is one guy...

01:41:12.000 How is one guy, you know, Reggie Jackson?

01:41:15.000 What is he doing different?

01:41:16.000 How does this guy rise above everybody else?

01:41:19.000 They're just special, because I would read about him and be like, you know, they knew he was good when he was a kid.

01:41:23.000 They'd be like, come watch this eight-year-old out skating people.

01:41:27.000 Like, he was, I think, I forget, I'm not a Bobby Orr expert, I can't remember things, but I remember being scouted at 14, like he was an adult.

01:41:36.000 He was so good.

01:41:37.000 But that's what you have to be, I guess.

01:41:39.000 I mean, we all remember kids from high school that's like...

01:41:44.000 Right.

01:41:45.000 You're like a professional athlete and we're like stupid kids.

01:41:48.000 Yeah.

01:41:49.000 Like, you know?

01:41:50.000 Right.

01:41:50.000 Like, why are you shredded?

01:41:52.000 And we're just like dopey kids.

01:41:54.000 Like, what's going on here?

01:41:55.000 What kind of musicians, too, right?

01:41:57.000 Remember when Prince first came out?

01:41:58.000 Wasn't he like 19 when he came out with I Want to Be Your Lover?

01:42:02.000 Yeah, some people are just special.

01:42:04.000 They're just Mozart, but in fighting or hockey.

01:42:07.000 It's so humbling.

01:42:08.000 Well, that's what goes back to the thing we said like an hour ago.

01:42:11.000 Fooled them again.

01:42:12.000 Because like, those guys are actually special.

01:42:14.000 Well, there's always going to be people like that, right?

01:42:17.000 That just put it all into perspective for you and make you realize like, wow, just, okay, I'm a regular person.

01:42:23.000 It's fun watching people like that.

01:42:25.000 Yeah.

01:42:26.000 But then there's people like that sometimes that they just self-destruct because they don't care that they're good.

01:42:32.000 Right.

01:42:32.000 You know, and I remember people like that, too.

01:42:34.000 They do nothing with it.

01:42:36.000 That's true, too.

01:42:37.000 You know, which is weird.

01:42:38.000 Yeah, there's...

01:42:39.000 Sometimes people can be too talented where things come too easy.

01:42:43.000 It doesn't mean anything.

01:42:44.000 Yeah.

01:42:44.000 There's a thing, like...

01:42:45.000 You know, you were talking about earlier about being bullied...

01:42:48.000 Like, maybe if we get rid of bullying, we're going to get rid of a certain amount of success, too.

01:42:52.000 I mean, it's not like I don't want anybody to hurt their feelings, but I understand that there's something that comes out of that, right?

01:42:59.000 Well, there's something that comes out of it being really hard for you to do.

01:43:02.000 Yeah, I agree.

01:43:03.000 Like, when you figure out how to do it, you've developed this indomitable spirit because you've managed to make your way through the hardest levels of the game to get to the top.

01:43:13.000 It's not like you were just faster than everybody.

01:43:15.000 Yeah.

01:43:18.000 Yeah, I mean, yeah, you can't be, like, pro-bullying, because that's weird, but there is something to it, because, like, real life just bullies you anyway.

01:43:29.000 There's something to adversity, for sure.

01:43:30.000 Like, you have to be able to, like...

01:43:33.000 Like, whenever someone says, like, what's your advice for, like, you know, doing this, like, being in show business or something, I go, if being told by complete strangers that you suck all day long does not bother you in any way, you know, then maybe it's the business for you.

01:43:49.000 Yeah.

01:43:50.000 You know?

01:43:51.000 But maybe it's not because I think it bothers everybody who wants to do well.

01:43:55.000 But there's a difference between bothering like, ah, that's a drag, or like, I quit.

01:43:58.000 Right.

01:43:59.000 Because there's always, this is funny, whenever someone comes to me and they say like, hey, I wrote this short story.

01:44:04.000 Be brutally honest.

01:44:05.000 I mean brutally honest.

01:44:07.000 That person's like...

01:44:08.000 Secretly saying, please say something nice about this.

01:44:10.000 Of course.

01:44:11.000 Yeah.

01:44:11.000 Come watch my show and be brutally honest.

01:44:13.000 You're hideous to look at and you're the least talented person I've ever seen in my life.

01:44:16.000 That's such a request.

01:44:19.000 Like, I've had people ask me to read their scripts.

01:44:21.000 I'm like, hey, bro, you're asking me for an hour and a half of my time.

01:44:24.000 I don't even know you.

01:44:25.000 Do you know how valuable an hour and a half is?

01:44:27.000 I have children and three jobs and a lot of hobbies.

01:44:31.000 I don't have an hour and a half to watch a movie.

01:44:33.000 I don't even want to read a script when my agent sends it over.

01:44:35.000 I don't want to read yours.

01:44:36.000 I mean, it's a lot of time suck.

01:44:38.000 If I can just get this Rob Zombie, if I can just get this Rob Zombie, he can make it.

01:44:43.000 Then it'll all work out.

01:44:44.000 It's so funny.

01:44:45.000 The people that always make it never talk about themselves.

01:44:48.000 No.

01:44:48.000 The people that can't tell you about their great idea.

01:44:51.000 It's very rare.

01:44:52.000 It'll never not be an idea.

01:44:53.000 It's very rare that that idea is actually great.

01:44:55.000 Yeah.

01:44:56.000 It's like there's certain qualities that someone has to have to make something that's truly exceptional.

01:45:02.000 And very rarely do they want to tell you that it's truly exceptional.

01:45:05.000 Yeah.

01:45:06.000 I mean, it's weird.

01:45:08.000 Maybe it's the insecurity thing that you don't want to tell anybody what you do because you never think it's good enough as opposed to people that are not good enough and they always want to tell you about themselves.

01:45:16.000 Right.

01:45:17.000 Yeah, that's a problem.

01:45:19.000 The wrong people are talking about themselves.

01:45:21.000 Well, it's like, it's human psychology, but I think the thing about, like I was saying about Richard Jenny would say that looking at shitty comics is what inspires people to do comedy.

01:45:31.000 We learn from all of the psychological disasters, all the people that think, like all the guys that think they're better looking than they are.

01:45:38.000 You know what I mean?

01:45:39.000 And they walk up to a girl and the girl's like, what the fuck What the fuck are you talking on?

01:45:42.000 Get out of here.

01:45:43.000 There's something to be learned from that.

01:45:46.000 I had a friend growing up that would swing at every pitch.

01:45:50.000 This guy would go up to every girl.

01:45:52.000 And he wasn't a particularly good-looking guy.

01:45:55.000 He wasn't smart.

01:45:56.000 He wasn't funny.

01:45:57.000 But he was bold.

01:45:59.000 And I would learn from him.

01:46:02.000 Girls would be angry at him. 0.97

01:46:05.000 Angry that he had the balls to ask them out.

01:46:07.000 And then they probably would go, right?

01:46:08.000 Very few.

01:46:09.000 Very few.

01:46:11.000 So his strategy just didn't work.

01:46:12.000 It didn't work at all.

01:46:13.000 He'd have to find girls with something wrong with them. 1.00

01:46:17.000 Like, there's something wrong with them.

01:46:18.000 They have a screw loose.

01:46:20.000 I thought the end of that story was going to be his boldness paid off.

01:46:24.000 No!

01:46:24.000 No, he's just dating paraplegics.

01:46:26.000 No, he became an alcoholic.

01:46:27.000 His fucking life is a disaster.

01:46:30.000 I've lost touch with him 15, 20 years ago.

01:46:32.000 That's funny.

01:46:32.000 He's out of his fucking mind.

01:46:33.000 But I remember when we were kids, I'd be like, Jesus Christ, because...

01:46:38.000 One of the things about getting the show business that helped me is I was always super insecure to talk to girls. 0.82

01:46:43.000 But then when I would do stand-up, you would do work at clubs, and you'd be the guy on stage making people laugh.

01:46:50.000 They wanted to talk to you.

01:46:51.000 You actually want to talk to me?

01:46:53.000 This is crazy!

01:46:54.000 You know, I couldn't believe it.

01:46:55.000 That's weird.

01:46:56.000 That guy would just fucking anybody. 0.95

01:46:58.000 Like, look at that hot bartender. 1.00

01:46:59.000 I'm in.

01:47:00.000 I'm going.

01:47:01.000 Every flight attendant on this flight.

01:47:04.000 He would just buy cocktails and take chances and ask for phone numbers.

01:47:08.000 But you can learn from people that fuck everything up.

01:47:12.000 Yeah, you can.

01:47:13.000 You learn from everything, man.

01:47:14.000 But I have this theory that nobody can learn from other people's mistakes.

01:47:18.000 Really?

01:47:20.000 Maybe it's just the way you think and I think, but it's the rare person who learns from other people's mistakes.

01:47:25.000 Yeah, it's rare, but it's possible.

01:47:27.000 Because I always think like, heroin?

01:47:29.000 Right.

01:47:30.000 Didn't Lou Reed finish that one for everybody?

01:47:33.000 We're still going to give it a go because it's different when you do heroin or just anything.

01:47:37.000 I mean, I never know anyone that learns from anyone's mistakes because you can, even if you're in the business and you go, look, Here's my piece of advice.

01:47:44.000 Don't spend that money on that because that's the only you're going to see.

01:47:46.000 Put it away.

01:47:47.000 Do this because that's an advance.

01:47:49.000 That's not coming every month.

01:47:51.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:47:52.000 And then, you know, two minutes later they're broke.

01:47:55.000 Right.

01:47:55.000 You know, I don't give people advice because they don't want to hear it.

01:47:59.000 I don't care.

01:47:59.000 Be broke.

01:48:00.000 The people who really want advice and they're going to use it, that's like one out of a hundred.

01:48:05.000 But they do exist.

01:48:07.000 Yeah, but it's rare.

01:48:08.000 Yeah.

01:48:09.000 And those are the people that are smart and they're like, aha.

01:48:12.000 Yeah.

01:48:12.000 I try to learn as much as I can from other people's mistakes, but they don't feel as bad as they feel to those people.

01:48:20.000 That's part of the problem.

01:48:22.000 Mistakes have to hurt.

01:48:23.000 They have to fucking hurt, man.

01:48:25.000 Like bombing.

01:48:26.000 Like bombing on stage is like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother. 0.80

01:48:30.000 It hurts so bad that you learn and you're like, okay, I am gonna figure this out.

01:48:35.000 I'm never having that happen again.

01:48:36.000 I gotta get better.

01:48:38.000 That must be so bad.

01:48:39.000 I mean, I can relate to it because, you know, I've done a different sort of bombing in front of people on stage.

01:48:43.000 But you can't really learn from other people bombing.

01:48:46.000 I think you kind of – that's one of those things you kind of got to do yourself.

01:48:50.000 How long does it take – because I'm always fascinated by it.

01:48:53.000 How long do you feel it takes – I mean, this is not really a question I guess you can answer, but – to you find your voice and you go, okay, this is me.

01:49:00.000 I'm this guy.

01:49:02.000 I'm not Richard Pryor.

01:49:04.000 I'm not Jerry Seinfeld.

01:49:05.000 It depends on how much time you- Some people maybe never find it, I guess, but- A lot of people never find it.

01:49:10.000 There's impossible comics, whereas you see them and you go, oh my god, this poor bastard.

01:49:16.000 He's trying to do something that he's never going to be able to do.

01:49:19.000 There's people that just...

01:49:20.000 They're never going to be able to do it for whatever reason.

01:49:22.000 Whatever psychological ingredients that they have, it's not enough to make chocolate cake.

01:49:28.000 Like, you don't have any eggs?

01:49:29.000 You don't have any flour?

01:49:30.000 Bro, you're fucked.

01:49:32.000 Yeah.

01:49:32.000 I know, yeah.

01:49:33.000 But then there's other people that...

01:49:35.000 Their ego protects them, where they believe that they did well when they didn't do well.

01:49:42.000 They're delusional.

01:49:43.000 And that's the worst thing.

01:49:44.000 Because they're trying to protect themselves from the bad feeling, but they don't understand the bad feeling is your friend.

01:49:50.000 Because it sucks hard, but that's the fucking medicine.

01:49:55.000 You take that medicine and you've got to go, okay, okay, okay.

01:49:58.000 What did I do wrong?

01:49:59.000 This is what I did wrong.

01:50:00.000 I've got to not do that again.

01:50:01.000 You've got to put more time and focus and effort.

01:50:03.000 It's really dependent almost entirely on how much you do that objectively and your focus, like how you can look at it.

01:50:12.000 Some people just don't ever want to, no matter what they're doing, whether they're painting or making comic books, they don't want to ever look at it the way other people look at it.

01:50:19.000 They want to think that everything they do is amazing.

01:50:22.000 You know?

01:50:23.000 That's true.

01:50:24.000 My kids will show me something and sometimes it'll be funny.

01:50:27.000 My daughter will make something on an iPad.

01:50:29.000 Sometimes it'll be funny.

01:50:30.000 And sometimes it's like, look, you gotta edit this.

01:50:32.000 There's too much shit going on here.

01:50:34.000 This is boring.

01:50:35.000 But they think it's great.

01:50:36.000 Why?

01:50:37.000 Because she's fucking nine, okay?

01:50:40.000 But when you're 28 and you think everything you do is amazing, it's like, okay...

01:50:44.000 But do you think that's worse now because of things like Instagram?

01:50:48.000 Oh, for sure.

01:50:49.000 Where everybody puts up anything and you want to go, you look like an idiot, but their friend's like, you are so hot, or something.

01:50:56.000 Everyone can feed their delusions.

01:50:59.000 That's certainly, but you also could take the sting of criticism and you get it from way more people than you ever have before.

01:51:08.000 Like, if you're someone who puts something up on Instagram and you think it's funny and then the people come at you hard, like, whoa!

01:51:13.000 Like, you might, you know, if you're a comic and you've been doing stand-up for five years, you're never going to work in front of, not in normal circumstances, you're never going to work in front of 5,000 people.

01:51:22.000 But you might get 5,000 people saying you suck if you put something up on Instagram.

01:51:26.000 That's true.

01:51:27.000 You know?

01:51:27.000 Yeah, I mean, you can tell.

01:51:28.000 I mean, I'm sure you can tell when somebody's funny almost instantly.

01:51:31.000 You can tell, but some people surprise you.

01:51:34.000 Like, some people in the beginning, like, wow, this guy's got it rough.

01:51:37.000 But then one day, it just clicks, and they just keep working at it.

01:51:41.000 But it's a matter of whether or not they're willing to put the building blocks in the right place, and whether or not they're going to admit that the structure that they have currently is not viable.

01:51:52.000 Right.

01:51:52.000 And some people aren't, but some people are.

01:51:55.000 It's like, it doesn't...

01:51:56.000 And also...

01:51:57.000 It's just like movies, right?

01:52:00.000 Everybody's got a different style.

01:52:03.000 You know, your films are your kind of films, whereas, like, there's other people that are doing, like, these really simple, sweet, you know, chick flicks, and that's for them.

01:52:17.000 That's what they like, and there's people that find that, and they think it's amazing.

01:52:21.000 It's so good.

01:52:22.000 It's like, you've got to find whatever the fuck it is that you do that you would like to see.

01:52:29.000 Yeah, because that's hot.

01:52:30.000 That's the only way you can judge it.

01:52:32.000 Yeah.

01:52:32.000 I mean, I do what I do because that's what I like.

01:52:35.000 So what I'm doing, I go, okay.

01:52:37.000 But if I was trying to do something else that I didn't get, I might go, well, what do I judge it against?

01:52:42.000 Like, what you're telling me is good?

01:52:43.000 Then I'm lost.

01:52:45.000 Well, you'd be like the executive asking you to get Howard Stern in the movie.

01:52:47.000 Like, they don't know why they want him in the movie.

01:52:49.000 They just know he's famous.

01:52:50.000 Like, oh, he's in the movie.

01:52:51.000 He just came out.

01:52:51.000 Get him.

01:52:52.000 Let's get Howard.

01:52:53.000 And that's what happened when I was doing the Halloween movies a lot because they'd weigh in so often.

01:52:57.000 That it can start messing with you.

01:53:00.000 Because you don't know which end is up.

01:53:01.000 Because you just want to go, Jesus Christ, can I just fucking focus for five seconds before you send another 18 pages of weird notes?

01:53:10.000 And you really don't know which end is up anymore.

01:53:15.000 I've never been there for a film, but I've been there on TV shows.

01:53:17.000 It's a drag.

01:53:18.000 It's very confusing because you don't know anymore because you're so spun out from too much information.

01:53:24.000 I find most of the time, and that's why I'll defend a filmmaker like Ed Wood and why people still talk about Plan 9 from Outer Space because, yes, technically it's inept, but there's something so specific about this guy's bizarro vision We're good to go.

01:53:48.000 Far superior made films from back then that nobody gives a shit about.

01:53:51.000 It's just like there's something about keeping that weird, bizarro vision alive and not having the committee ruin it.

01:53:59.000 Yeah, if enough people know that it's going to be an Ed Wood movie, they're going to go see it.

01:54:04.000 There's enough people that find out about it.

01:54:07.000 They're like, yeah, this guy's just weird shit, man.

01:54:09.000 Let's go see his weird fucking movie.

01:54:10.000 How did he make a movie more entertaining in six days with like $300 than you made with $200 million?

01:54:17.000 Well, especially after The Taste of Time, because if you look back at it now, I mean, people will gather around and watch it, especially after the Johnny Depp movie.

01:54:26.000 Yeah.

01:54:26.000 Because Johnny Depp was such a weird Ed Wood.

01:54:29.000 He's so great in that.

01:54:30.000 So great!

01:54:31.000 He's such a fucking strange character for him.

01:54:33.000 I think Ed Wood and Young Frankenstein at Two Times were like, that's the perfect comedy.

01:54:38.000 They're just such perfect films.

01:54:39.000 Ed Wood is so weird.

01:54:41.000 The Johnny Depp version of him is like, what kind of character are you?

01:54:45.000 I know.

01:54:46.000 Yeah.

01:54:47.000 I remember right when it came out, no, it was right when Martin Landau got nominated for an Oscar.

01:54:52.000 I ran into him at a newsstand, and I never go up to people because I don't want to bother anybody, but I couldn't resist.

01:54:57.000 And it was like one of those cases where he was so nice that I was like, oh my god, which was great.

01:55:03.000 He was great in that movie, too.

01:55:04.000 And he seemed so shocked that some young, weird dude was so excited to meet Martin Landau.

01:55:09.000 Because, you know, he's pretty old.

01:55:10.000 Yeah, that's cool when a movie like that sort of reignites people's appreciation for someone, too.

01:55:15.000 Because I always liked him.

01:55:15.000 He's always been great.

01:55:16.000 Yeah, I mean, because I was like a space 1999 dork and stuff back in the day.

01:55:20.000 Is there ever a guy that you are such a big fan of as an actor that you would kind of try to make a movie around him?

01:55:29.000 Probably.

01:55:30.000 I mean, the sad part is so many of the people that I love are gone.

01:55:35.000 You know, like, I've tried to put a lot of people I really love in all my movies.

01:55:38.000 A lot of, like, just weird character actors from the 70s that you'd see in, like, Clint Eastwood movies and stuff.

01:55:44.000 But, like, Jeffrey Lewis, you know, who's in, like, you know, his sidekick in Every Which Way But Loose and is in High Plains Drifter.

01:55:51.000 You know, Juliet Lewis's dad, Jeffrey Lewis.

01:55:53.000 Oh, yeah.

01:55:54.000 And he was, like, the greatest.

01:55:56.000 I worked with him twice and...

01:55:58.000 And he would tell me the funniest story once.

01:56:01.000 He goes, this is what I learned from working with Clint.

01:56:05.000 Whenever I was in a scene with Clint, I'd make sure I put my hand on his shoulder.

01:56:09.000 That way I knew he couldn't cut me out of the scene.

01:56:14.000 But he was an amazing guy.

01:56:16.000 I remember when I did this animated movie.

01:56:18.000 With Tom Papa called The Haunted World of El Superbiso.

01:56:21.000 And Jeffrey Lewis was in it.

01:56:21.000 He had just come from boxing.

01:56:22.000 At that point, he was in his 70s.

01:56:24.000 But he was little.

01:56:25.000 But he had that Eastwood body where he's still ripped.

01:56:29.000 You know, Clint Eastwood, you don't think of him as like...

01:56:31.000 But then he has that Charles Bronson body back then.

01:56:33.000 He was boxing in his 70s?

01:56:34.000 Yeah.

01:56:35.000 And he was like, don't be fooled.

01:56:37.000 I can still kick your ass. 0.99

01:56:39.000 I was like, yeah, I'm sure you can.

01:56:41.000 Okay, man.

01:56:42.000 Relax.

01:56:43.000 He's a hilarious guy.

01:56:44.000 You know the movie that I fucking love that it hardly gets talked about anymore is Bad Lieutenant.

01:56:50.000 Yeah.

01:56:51.000 Harvey Keitel.

01:56:51.000 You don't hear from Harvey Keitel anymore for whatever reason.

01:56:54.000 Is he in the new thing, the Irishman? 0.99

01:56:58.000 The Scorsese thing?

01:56:59.000 I don't know.

01:56:59.000 He seems like he should be.

01:57:01.000 That fucking guy has depth.

01:57:02.000 He's amazing.

01:57:04.000 There's scenes in movies when he gets angry.

01:57:07.000 You're like, Jesus Christ.

01:57:09.000 This is real.

01:57:10.000 He's hit this weird place where he might murder the person he's in the film with.

01:57:14.000 I know.

01:57:15.000 I've heard different weird stories of why.

01:57:19.000 Because he was in Eyes Wide Shut.

01:57:22.000 Right.

01:57:23.000 And Kubrick filmed him for a long time and then replaced him with Sidney Pollack.

01:57:27.000 Why?

01:57:27.000 i don't know but i would always hear these different weird like that weird that there was weird that he did and i don't know if it's true so i don't repeat it but i always wonder because he's so great yeah but to shoot for six weeks or two months and then be replaced it was a weird thing well he's his scenes there's something about him like like pulp fiction he's so authentic like you believe he's the cleaner He's so great as sport and taxi driver.

01:57:55.000 Yes.

01:57:56.000 I think that might be the first thing I saw him in.

01:57:58.000 He just seemed so authentically sleazy.

01:58:01.000 I used to have a bad lieutenant poster.

01:58:04.000 What the fuck happened to it?

01:58:05.000 But somewhere along my travels, moving from place to place, I lost it.

01:58:09.000 He was amazing.

01:58:10.000 That fucking movie was so crazy because it was like a bad cop.

01:58:14.000 Really bad cop.

01:58:16.000 Really bad cop.

01:58:17.000 Over the top bad.

01:58:20.000 But probably fairly realistic.

01:58:23.000 Probably, unfortunately.

01:58:24.000 Did you ever see the documentary The 7-5?

01:58:27.000 No.

01:58:27.000 It's a great documentary about corrupt cops in New York.

01:58:30.000 Oh, really?

01:58:31.000 Yeah.

01:58:31.000 And Michael Dowd, who was one of the guys who was one of those corrupt cops who wound up going to jail, and now he's out.

01:58:39.000 And, you know, I had him on the podcast and we talked about it.

01:58:42.000 It's fucking, all of it is true.

01:58:44.000 All of it's documented and all of it's insane.

01:58:46.000 What year was that all happening?

01:58:48.000 I want to say it was the 70s, right?

01:58:50.000 I always assumed corruption happened in the 70s.

01:58:53.000 A lot of it.

01:58:54.000 Like he was showing up at the precinct with a fucking Corvette and everybody was like, what is going on here, man?

01:58:59.000 And they were knocking over.

01:59:00.000 80s and 90s.

01:59:01.000 Oh, it was?

01:59:02.000 Oh, really?

01:59:02.000 Oh, wow.

01:59:03.000 I just assumed it was Serpico time period.

01:59:06.000 Yeah, but he's out now, man.

01:59:07.000 And it's just one of those stories that's so fucking crazy.

01:59:14.000 Just, you know, knocking hits out on him, and they were putting hits on other people.

01:59:20.000 It's just maniacal.

01:59:22.000 Was that in New York?

01:59:23.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:59:24.000 It was like the Wild West.

01:59:25.000 But he talks about, like, first day on the job, being exposed to corruption, like they threw some guy out of a fucking balcony.

01:59:32.000 And he's like, you know, like, this guy jumped, right?

01:59:34.000 And he's like, oh, okay.

01:59:36.000 I think so.

01:59:37.000 I forget what the exact story was, but some ridiculous shit like that where they were, he was, I mean, it was like, it was corrupt long before he got there.

01:59:44.000 Yeah.

01:59:44.000 He just sort of stepped into the mess of it.

01:59:48.000 You know, it's, What you're talking about, your early days in New York City, seeing that guy get beat to death by a cop, that was kind of how police had total autonomy.

02:00:00.000 They had so much power and authority back then.

02:00:03.000 Yeah, it was crazy.

02:00:04.000 I remember another incident.

02:00:05.000 This was right before I left.

02:00:06.000 I think I started talking about this, but I didn't finish.

02:00:08.000 It was like they had Tompkins Square Park, and that's when that area was getting gentrified.

02:00:13.000 That was the big word.

02:00:15.000 And there was like kind of a riot.

02:00:17.000 There was all the people protesting the gentrification of the Lower East Side.

02:00:20.000 This was probably like, I don't know, fuck, I forget, maybe early 90s, late 80s.

02:00:26.000 And the cops showed up on horseback.

02:00:29.000 And I had just walked out to go to the deli.

02:00:32.000 I didn't even know this was happening.

02:00:33.000 I just walked right into the middle of like, what's going on here?

02:00:36.000 And then the cops just started racing through the crowd and I just started running.

02:00:41.000 And I saw a friend of mine, he died now, but he was a singer of this punk rock band, Reagan Youth.

02:00:47.000 And I saw this cop just jump on him and start pounding on him.

02:00:51.000 So bad.

02:00:52.000 He had really long dreadlocks.

02:00:53.000 The next time I saw him, his head was shaved and it was all stitched up because he just had so much damage to his head.

02:00:58.000 He had been in like a coma or something.

02:01:02.000 And then it was a big scandal.

02:01:03.000 You could probably find this because the cops all put black tape on their badge numbers.

02:01:07.000 So that no one could tell who was who while they did all this shit.

02:01:11.000 And it was like on the front cover of the New York Post, a picture of like a, I think the post, a badge with the black tape.

02:01:16.000 That shit was wild back then.

02:01:18.000 See if you can find that.

02:01:19.000 Well, the Chicago elections and the riots during the 1960s was like a turning point in Hunter S. Thompson's life.

02:01:30.000 Because he was there and he watched these cops just beat the fuck out of people.

02:01:35.000 And he said that he saw...

02:01:38.000 Far worse beatings by the Chicago police than he ever saw for the Hells Angels.

02:01:42.000 Because, you know, his first book was the Hells Angels book.

02:01:44.000 So he was around those guys for a year, watching them get into biker brawls and shit.

02:01:48.000 He's like, this fucking paled.

02:01:50.000 It paled.

02:01:53.000 I mean, it's...

02:01:53.000 Yeah, it's...

02:01:54.000 But it's crazy, too.

02:01:56.000 But sometimes I... Being a cop must be a crazy job.

02:01:59.000 Horrific.

02:02:00.000 Because I can't imagine...

02:02:02.000 I mean, it doesn't justify any of the stuff we're talking about, but I can't imagine how you couldn't go crazy in that job with what you see every day.

02:02:09.000 Most of them, I think, have PTSD, and it's not addressed.

02:02:13.000 Most people have disdain for them.

02:02:15.000 Almost everybody they meet is a liar, because you meet a guy, like, I didn't know how fast I was going.

02:02:19.000 Oh, this is my house.

02:02:20.000 Oh, I just can't find my keys.

02:02:22.000 Like, everyone's lying to you, and you're the enemy.

02:02:24.000 You are a professional enemy, and you're wearing an enemy outfit, right?

02:02:27.000 For all these criminals, you're the enemy.

02:02:30.000 It's a terrible way to live.

02:02:31.000 We need them badly.

02:02:33.000 Right.

02:02:33.000 I don't know.

02:02:36.000 You can't win on that job, I don't think.

02:02:37.000 No.

02:02:38.000 No, you can't.

02:02:40.000 And people don't get paid enough.

02:02:42.000 People don't respect you.

02:02:43.000 They don't appreciate you.

02:02:45.000 They don't want you around until they want you around?

02:02:47.000 Yes.

02:02:48.000 And then you're not there fast enough?

02:02:49.000 Exactly.

02:02:50.000 And then you suck.

02:02:52.000 And cop movies, that's what's crazy.

02:02:55.000 Cop movies, people love.

02:02:58.000 People love cop movies and the cops are the good guys.

02:03:00.000 It's so strange.

02:03:03.000 But their interactions with humans in real life, boy, if people treated them the way they think about them in the movies, it would be a wonderful time to be a cop.

02:03:11.000 It's weird, though, because I remember that time period in New York.

02:03:15.000 I have a different relationship now when I see cops, but as a...

02:03:21.000 As like a bum kid at 19. Like I remember walking down the street and a cop would cruise alongside, roll down the window and they'd start taunting me, saying shit. 0.83

02:03:30.000 Like, you know.

02:03:31.000 Bullies. 0.77

02:03:32.000 But they're just like waiting for you to say something back.

02:03:36.000 Right.

02:03:37.000 And I was like, wow, that's weird.

02:03:39.000 You know, I was just walking down the street.

02:03:41.000 I wasn't, you know, even jaywalking down the street.

02:03:43.000 Now whenever a cop comes up to me like, oh no, what's happening?

02:03:46.000 He'd be like, dude, I saw you in Slayer.

02:03:48.000 It was fucking awesome.

02:03:49.000 I was like, that was weird.

02:03:52.000 Yeah, it's gotta be super strange.

02:03:54.000 Yeah.

02:03:55.000 I mean, they're more accountable now than ever before.

02:03:57.000 I think that's one of the great things about body cameras and cell phones.

02:04:02.000 Cops are, you know, you just can't rock it that way before.

02:04:04.000 But I don't think they get enough counseling, and I don't think they get enough money, and I don't think it's a stringent enough screening process.

02:04:12.000 I think there's a lot of people that are, you know, they're powerless twats when they're young, and they want, oh, I just wish everybody's gonna fucking pay me.

02:04:20.000 If I could be a cop, and they become a cop for all the wrong reasons.

02:04:23.000 And then they're the ones that give the good cops a bad name.

02:04:27.000 And if you think about the amount of interactions that people have with police, and this is why perspective is so important.

02:04:32.000 There are fucking 320 million people in this country, and cops have millions and [...

02:04:41.000 But how many of those interactions are positive?

02:04:44.000 The vast majority of them are not police brutality.

02:04:48.000 The vast majority of them are not shooting someone and planting a weapon on them or planting drugs on them.

02:04:52.000 The vast majority of them are cops doing a really hard job and doing their best.

02:04:57.000 But nobody gives a fuck about that.

02:04:58.000 You only care when the cops go bad.

02:05:02.000 It's just perspective.

02:05:05.000 Which, you know, nobody has.

02:05:08.000 No, nobody does.

02:05:09.000 That's too nuanced of a conversation with the world now.

02:05:12.000 Nobody has any perspective on anything.

02:05:15.000 Well, listen, man, I appreciate you coming in here, and your film is out tonight.

02:05:19.000 Tonight.

02:05:20.000 Yes.

02:05:20.000 Three from Hell.

02:05:21.000 Three from Hell tonight and everywhere.

02:05:23.000 Well, somebody will tell me they couldn't find it, but it's trying to be everywhere.

02:05:27.000 So, and then when will it be available, like if someone wants to get it off Apple TV or Amazon?

02:05:33.000 I don't know exactly.

02:05:35.000 I mean, it's a three-night Fathom event, and then it'll be in theaters.

02:05:38.000 Oh.

02:05:38.000 Here and there, and then it'll be out probably October will be most accessible for people.

02:05:43.000 Okay.

02:05:43.000 I should have brought that information.

02:05:45.000 No worries.

02:05:45.000 Thanks, man.

02:05:46.000 Appreciate you being here, brother.

02:05:47.000 Thanks for having me, man.

02:05:48.000 Thank you.

02:05:48.000 Rob Zombie, ladies and gentlemen.

The Joe Rogan Experience - September 16, 2019

Joe Rogan Experience #1353 - Rob Zombie

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