The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #136 - Daniel Pinchbeck (Part 3)

00:00:00.000 I know that.

00:00:01.000 What do they mean? 0.99

00:00:02.000 No, I'm just saying it's fucking... 1.00

00:00:03.000 They fuck up all the time. 1.00

00:00:04.000 Really? 1.00

00:00:05.000 Yeah, it's brutal.

00:00:06.000 But it's always live on...

00:00:07.000 It always goes to iTunes in the unedited form.

00:00:10.000 We just have to reboot.

00:00:11.000 It's back up now.

00:00:12.000 Okay.

00:00:13.000 So where were you?

00:00:16.000 Natural disasters.

00:00:17.000 How much do you factor that?

00:00:18.000 So I think what we're, you know, it's basically we can see where we're going at the moment.

00:00:22.000 There's more and more natural disasters coming faster and faster.

00:00:25.000 Some of that may be because of the fact that we're going through a whole solar system-wide transition, as scientists like Dmitryov from Russia talks about, and this guy Dieter Bros.

00:00:33.000 Some of it may be because the level of human consciousness is more meshed with the natural state of the planet than we actually can comprehend quite yet, which is what most of the indigenous people believe.

00:00:45.000 I've been visiting, like, we've been doing retreats down to Columbia to work with the Kogi Indians, and they walk, like, 25 hours down from the mountains to hang out with us.

00:00:52.000 And that's basically the message that they've been giving us from their, you know, Understanding of the nature of reality, you know, it's somehow the level of human spiritual development and how much we are in a reciprocal relationship to our local world, you know, has an effect on what type of catastrophes do or don't occur.

00:01:15.000 That's their perspective. 0.99

00:01:16.000 Goddamn! 1.00

00:01:16.000 So when the earth is sick, it's because we're sick and we're all sick along with it. 1.00

00:01:23.000 So as tsunamis and hurricanes and earthquakes and ultimately shifts to the polar ice caps and shit like that and super volcanoes and Yellowstone that are ready to blow and kill half the shit on the continent, that that is all in correspondence with the sickness of this species of us? 0.98

00:01:41.000 That's the indigenous perspective. 0.97

00:01:43.000 God! 1.00

00:01:43.000 Damn, that's a scary thought. 1.00

00:01:45.000 But listen, man, if we look at the ideas of quantum physics that even observing something with certain intentions can actually change the outcome of particles, you know, when they do those tests, those slot tests, and they show that observing an experiment actually has an effect on the result of the experiment. 0.97

00:02:02.000 Or you could say there's no such thing as just being an impartial observer.

00:02:06.000 You're always participating in the outcome.

00:02:08.000 That's a better way of looking at it.

00:02:10.000 It really does make sense that it operates on macro, micro, and ultimately this one gigantic level.

00:02:18.000 Right, which is what, like, Western alchemists talk about when they say, as above, so below. 0.89

00:02:21.000 How fucking crazy is it, the idea that human behavior can actually inspire storms? 0.98

00:02:29.000 You know, you don't want to say that, because you don't want to say that, like, the most fucked up places, the places get the storms. 0.99

00:02:34.000 But I used to do jokes about it. 0.89

00:02:36.000 They're cruel jokes that I would never do now. 0.99

00:02:38.000 But I used to do jokes about how tornadoes were attracted to the smell of white trash. 1.00

00:02:43.000 Right. 0.98

00:02:43.000 And that they just circle when you have too much macaroni and cheese and 40-ounce beer in one location. 0.98

00:02:49.000 It's a terrible idea.

00:02:51.000 It's a terrible joke. 1.00

00:02:52.000 It's really cruel to think that you're cooler than these fucking poor people that live in some place where the sky becomes an angry monster. 1.00

00:02:59.000 But it is kind of weird that they only land in fucked up places. 0.99

00:03:02.000 You don't want to think that. 0.95

00:03:04.000 You don't ever want to blame people for that, but wow.

00:03:07.000 Obviously we know that's not true because there's geographic centers in this country where they're certainly attracted to. 0.57

00:03:13.000 But the idea that more of them come because people are more fucked up and they're accelerating because our society is deteriorating, that's a terrifying thought that we're responsible for that. 0.86

00:03:23.000 Well, or... 0.95

00:03:24.000 Or even on a 1% level.

00:03:27.000 Even that.

00:03:28.000 That we're responsible for just having any influence on it.

00:03:31.000 Not that we created, but that we even have any bearing on natural disasters.

00:03:36.000 As I discussed in the 2012 book, the Hopi, for instance, who live in Arizona, tribes like that may have actually chosen to live in very difficult environments where survival is really on a knife edge because it forced them to be able to do things like rain dances.

00:03:51.000 So they did it on purpose, or Is that it or is it the result of them living in this difficult environment that they develop more character?

00:04:01.000 Well, it's quite possible because they had a large choice earlier on of where they were going to leave.

00:04:05.000 And it's possible they actually chose to leave and live in very difficult environments because it forced them to develop their initiatory and psychic capacities.

00:04:12.000 The only reason why I'd question that is because back then, resources were so scarce and you were on foot, essentially. 0.69

00:04:17.000 So if you were on foot, how much fucking ground can you cover and how much do you know about other lands? 0.57

00:04:22.000 You know, how much do you know about if you move five hours south, it doesn't get that cold? 0.99

00:04:26.000 You don't fucking know. 0.76

00:04:27.000 Actually, I totally disagree with what Really? 0.99

00:04:28.000 Well, on both levels.

00:04:30.000 First of all, I think that they did know.

00:04:31.000 I mean, for instance, we now understand that there was like a sign language.

00:04:34.000 Even Native people who didn't speak the same, you know, language could actually communicate a very highly developed sign language that was all across the continent.

00:04:41.000 And second of all, what they've discovered is that a lot of Native cultures were actually more like cultures of abundance than cultures of scarcity.

00:04:47.000 That actually the amount of work that they had to do today, you know, compared to what we have to do, you know, an average day was a lot less.

00:04:53.000 Well, But that doesn't match up with your idea of them moving to a very difficult environment to stay alive.

00:04:58.000 Well, I'm talking about the Hopi in particular.

00:05:00.000 Let's say they were like the Tibetan Buddhists of the native people. 0.82

00:05:03.000 They chose the most difficult spot.

00:05:06.000 Did they state this anywhere, or is this just a conclusion or a feeling you have?

00:05:11.000 No, it's a theory.

00:05:12.000 It's a theory. 0.89

00:05:13.000 I mean, you know, maybe it's ludicrous.

00:05:14.000 But it was a sense I had.

00:05:16.000 I visited them for the book, and I read a lot about them, anthropological accounts and so on.

00:05:20.000 But the whole thing is, like, they would put themselves through these extraordinary, you know, kind of efforts.

00:05:26.000 You know, like the Hopi snake clan.

00:05:28.000 They would go all around the area.

00:05:30.000 They would collect all of the most poisonous snakes they could possibly find.

00:05:34.000 Then the men would sit, you know, just naked wearing loincloths in a circle with their knees touching.

00:05:37.000 They would open up all of the snakes in the middle of the circle.

00:05:41.000 And the men would have to sit entirely still until all of the snakes had crawled past them.

00:05:46.000 Wow. 0.98

00:05:47.000 That's pretty fucking wild. 1.00

00:05:49.000 They definitely had their shit together when it came to rites of passage. 1.00

00:05:55.000 You know? 0.99

00:05:55.000 I remember that movie, A Man Called Horse. 0.99

00:05:57.000 Do you remember that?

00:05:58.000 No, I didn't see that.

00:05:59.000 It was a...

00:06:00.000 God, I forgot the guy's name.

00:06:02.000 He played the father in Gladiator.

00:06:04.000 Peter O'Toole?

00:06:05.000 I believe it's Peter O'Toole.

00:06:06.000 I might be incorrect. 0.98

00:06:07.000 Anyway, amazing fucking movie, but one of the scariest parts of it is one of these rites of passage that he has in order to become one with their tribe. 0.99

00:06:14.000 He was an American or an Englishman. 1.00

00:06:17.000 I forget what the fuck it was. 1.00

00:06:18.000 But they hung him by his nipples. 1.00

00:06:20.000 They used to do shit to test your limits. 1.00

00:06:22.000 Oh, they still do. 0.99

00:06:22.000 The Sundances, they lance you through the pectoral muscles and hang you up. 0.99

00:06:27.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:06:28.000 Really?

00:06:29.000 Is that necessary?

00:06:31.000 Apparently, yes.

00:06:33.000 It's the Indian equivalent of teeth straightening, I guess, or Botox injection or something.

00:06:39.000 Oh, it's way worse than that, or way better than that, rather.

00:06:42.000 It's, I think, you know, just having something, like having a bar mitzvah, having some sort of a celebration. 0.99

00:06:49.000 It doesn't even have to be, you know, you're hung from a tree by your tits. 0.98

00:06:51.000 It just has to be something where, like, okay, I pass through the door. 0.99

00:06:56.000 There's a symbolic door.

00:06:57.000 What you're saying for me is a big distinction.

00:06:59.000 For those cultures, initiation was actually about going through some process through which you would master non-ordinary states of consciousness.

00:07:07.000 You mean what cultures?

00:07:09.000 Like the native cultures.

00:07:10.000 I mean, initiation was not just a celebration.

00:07:13.000 You had to overcome a life-death crisis.

00:07:16.000 You had to be a warrior for them, too.

00:07:18.000 You're in a constant state of defending your tribes.

00:07:22.000 You had to be able to overcome very, very terrifying situations, even in hunting.

00:07:29.000 They had to make a man out of you. 0.98

00:07:31.000 Yeah, but I think that a lot of it was really more about learning to have a disciplined approach to non-ordinary states of consciousness.

00:07:40.000 To control states of consciousness?

00:07:42.000 I mean, what do you mean by non-ordinary?

00:07:43.000 Do you mean like peyote, enhanced?

00:07:45.000 Yeah, I mean, obviously peyote, mushrooms, and these are all native, you know, ayahuasca and so on.

00:07:50.000 But then also things like fasting, you know, and being, you know, not eating for five nights while you're just sitting on a mountaintop or something.

00:07:58.000 What's the benefit of that?

00:07:59.000 It puts you in exactly the same kind of state as the psychoactive substances.

00:08:05.000 Fasting for five days?

00:08:06.000 Sure.

00:08:07.000 Those will bring on visionary experiences and force you to discipline your mind to be able to withstand ingressions from the astral realms and so on.

00:08:20.000 What do you say to people that say that doing something along the lines of fasting where it's actually possibly dangerous to your body and that's what's causing you to have these experiences is really kind of a silly thing to do in this day and age where you could choose other paths to the same sort of results without damaging your body and shutting things down.

00:08:35.000 I don't know enough about nutrition to tell you whether or not it's healthy, but I've read a lot of people that start talking about fasting for days and days and days.

00:08:41.000 They say it puts strain on your kidneys.

00:08:43.000 It's not good for you.

00:08:45.000 I mean, I don't know.

00:08:46.000 I wouldn't say that it is.

00:08:47.000 It's not good for you to not eat.

00:08:49.000 It probably isn't.

00:08:50.000 I don't know.

00:08:50.000 I know people get really weak.

00:08:52.000 I actually know a lot of people who love it and find it to be very helpful.

00:08:54.000 And actually, in terms of extending the human lifespan, they found that reducing your caloric intake is the most direct way to do that.

00:09:02.000 Well, that makes sense.

00:09:03.000 It's just your body's going at less RPMs.

00:09:07.000 A race engine's not going to last as long as...

00:09:10.000 There's a good episode of Penn& Teller Bullshit.

00:09:12.000 Look at the cleansing episode where they go through the... 0.99

00:09:16.000 Diets like the lemon detox diets and shit like that where you don't eat.

00:09:19.000 You also go through the colonics and the whole thing like that. 1.00

00:09:22.000 The whole thing is a crock of shit. 1.00

00:09:24.000 Pan and Teller's bullshit makes some excellent points, but they also make some silly ones because they want to find the conclusion that everything is bullshit. 1.00

00:09:32.000 That's what they're doing. 0.99

00:09:33.000 I don't think they're ever saying...

00:09:34.000 They dismiss yoga.

00:09:35.000 I watched them dismiss yoga when he was talking about, it's just stretching!

00:09:38.000 It's stretching! 0.98

00:09:39.000 And I was like, wow, you're crazy. 0.98

00:09:40.000 You've never done a yoga class. 1.00

00:09:41.000 If you do yoga for two hours and tell me that's just stretching, that shit makes you hot. 1.00

00:09:46.000 Yoga makes you hot. 1.00

00:09:49.000 I've gotten as high from yoga as I have from a couple hits of pot.

00:09:52.000 No doubt about it.

00:09:54.000 No doubt.

00:09:55.000 Real strong pot.

00:09:56.000 I've gotten to body tingling moments, especially if you take a real good class, like hot yoga where you go real deep into poses and you really hold them.

00:10:05.000 Anybody that dismisses that as just stretching, you're either not giving me the full information that you have access to or you did a really sloppy job of investigating it. 0.97

00:10:16.000 You know, you can't just say these fucking Indian masters that have been doing this shit for thousands of years are just stretching. 0.94

00:10:22.000 And that's why they have these very specific poses that they believe activate very specific regions and hemispheres of the chakras of the body. 0.99

00:10:31.000 You can't just dismiss that.

00:10:33.000 Well, you can if you want.

00:10:34.000 I mean, that's what's so kind of interesting and cool about what's happening right now and how things are so, you know, complex.

00:10:41.000 I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, I was looking at a book by this guy, Dean Radin, who studies psychic phenomena as a scientist at Institute of Noetic Sciences, and we interviewed him for a film, wrote a book called The Self-Aware Universe, and he analyzes a whole, you know, century's worth Of data and psychic experience.

00:10:57.000 Statistically, he even looks at reports from the U.S. Army and the government, which support the existence of psychic phenomena of non-local communication, mind to mind, which means that consciousness is not simply brain-based.

00:11:09.000 It exists in a different way.

00:11:11.000 But I've also read recently this book by Richard Wiseman called Paranormality, who believes there's no psychic phenomena, busts every evidence for it, and in his own way is quite convincing.

00:11:23.000 So for me, it makes it a very interesting time where you can approach...

00:11:30.000 Anything and analytically rip it apart and find the weak spots.

00:11:35.000 But maybe what's missing from Penn& Teller and Richard Wiseman's understanding is the sense that intention is somehow a fundamental aspect of the universe.

00:11:46.000 So if your intention is to take something apart, desecrate it, ignore it, and so on, you can do all of that for sure.

00:11:54.000 But within there, you've kind of missed a subtle key that actually makes a life worth having in a way.

00:12:03.000 Well, intention is aware, and you can be aware of it in a very tangible form in the art of stand-up comedy.

00:12:10.000 You cannot be thinking about something different, say something else, and have the people react to it.

00:12:16.000 They won't.

00:12:17.000 It won't work.

00:12:18.000 It's a weird thing.

00:12:19.000 You could have the joke worded correctly.

00:12:21.000 You could say it with the right intonation.

00:12:24.000 But if your mind isn't into it, they can smell it. 0.99

00:12:28.000 It's the weirdest fucking thing in the world. 0.98

00:12:31.000 A connection that you have with an audience, it could be an audience of 200 or it could be an audience of 1,000 if you've reached that full connection. 0.99

00:12:38.000 It is like a giant mass hypnosis.

00:12:40.000 There is some sort of a relationship that you had with these people.

00:12:43.000 And if somehow or another something hits you, you remember something or something bothers you or you think about an argument that you got in with your girlfriend or a bill you forgot to pay or any distraction that makes you feel in a negative way, even if you're saying the words the same way, the audience will feel it.

00:13:01.000 They will feel it and they will back off you.

00:13:03.000 You can feel it.

00:13:04.000 You can feel them going.

00:13:07.000 It's legit, man.

00:13:08.000 It's real.

00:13:10.000 You can't tell me it's not.

00:13:11.000 I've always said that I do my best to write, stand up.

00:13:17.000 I sit down.

00:13:17.000 I do my best to put in the time to be there to make the writing happen.

00:13:21.000 And I do in the time when I perform enough so that I get on stage that I'm really comfortable and I relax. 0.98

00:13:26.000 But ultimately, at the end of the day, I'm not exactly sure how that shit is even coming out. 0.99

00:13:31.000 I don't know where it's coming from. 0.99

00:13:33.000 I don't know what's happening.

00:13:34.000 And when I'm on stage, when I'm completely locked in...

00:13:37.000 I am as much a passenger as I am the person who steers it.

00:13:41.000 And as long as that works, as long as I'm in that groove and the audience is in that groove, the whole thing will go seamlessly.

00:13:48.000 But one little hiccup, one little bad thought, one little error, one little stress point, and everybody hops off the ride and waits and looks at you.

00:13:58.000 And goes, you gonna get this thing going again?

00:14:00.000 And you go, yeah, get back in.

00:14:02.000 Everybody get back in the ride.

00:14:03.000 We're okay.

00:14:04.000 Do you know what you're doing now?

00:14:05.000 Yeah, I know what I'm doing now.

00:14:06.000 They can tell.

00:14:07.000 And that's a psychic connection.

00:14:09.000 That's a legit, tangible psychic connection.

00:14:11.000 When you're on stage, you feel it from the crowd.

00:14:13.000 You feel like waves are positive and negative.

00:14:16.000 You literally feel the energy.

00:14:17.000 You can say that, right?

00:14:19.000 You've had really good sets on stage, and you've had jokes that bombed, and you've had people angry at you.

00:14:25.000 You've felt that, right?

00:14:26.000 Don't you feel it like a wave?

00:14:29.000 It affects you just like anything, like getting hit by a snowball.

00:14:33.000 If you got a bad joke on stage, but it would hit before, you were having a great day.

00:14:43.000 After that, you're having the worst day ever.

00:14:46.000 It's like if you just got hit in the face with a snowball.

00:14:48.000 Your life is the exact same life.

00:14:50.000 Literally none of the hard details have changed. 1.00

00:14:53.000 And yet you feel like a fucking loser. 0.99

00:14:55.000 Because these people have let you know you have not given us what we want. 0.99

00:14:59.000 There's this weird sort of exchange that's going on with an audience.

00:15:03.000 I think hypnosis and trance are things that are operating much of the time.

00:15:08.000 Have you ever watched a mass hypnosis show?

00:15:10.000 Yeah, I did watch it in college once, yeah.

00:15:13.000 Oh, wow.

00:15:15.000 Thanks, man.

00:15:15.000 Sorry.

00:15:16.000 They used to have them all the time in Boston at the...

00:15:19.000 There's a place called the Comedy Connection, and every week they had this guy, Frank Santos, who would do a hypnotist comedy show that seemed like bullshit until you saw it a few times. 0.99

00:15:30.000 And when you saw it a few times, you would realize, oh, my God, these people are really fucking under. 0.99

00:15:34.000 It's so weird. 0.95

00:15:35.000 And not everybody.

00:15:35.000 He would know.

00:15:36.000 He would go up to the people that weren't, and he'd look at them and go, okay, you get off the stage.

00:15:39.000 And he'd pull the people off the stage.

00:15:40.000 But the people that were up there, for whatever reason, he found their hack code.

00:15:45.000 He got into their frequency.

00:15:46.000 I tend to look at most of our politicians and news anchors as kind of Illuminati sorcerers who use transignosis to keep people in a lowered state of consciousness, a lowered state of suggestibility.

00:15:59.000 Ugh, Illuminati. 0.99

00:16:01.000 I hate black wizards. 1.00

00:16:03.000 He got robbed by a black wizard. 1.00

00:16:06.000 A guy dressed up like a wizard put a gun in his chest. 0.96

00:16:09.000 Sort of.

00:16:10.000 Guy had a fake beard on.

00:16:11.000 So he called him a black wizard. 1.00

00:16:13.000 It sucks, man. 0.99

00:16:14.000 There's this guy at my Starbucks and I feel so bad for him because he totally reminds me of him. 0.99

00:16:20.000 The guy that robbed me. 0.98

00:16:22.000 And every time I fucking walk in there I'm just like, damn, I'm fucking totally just eyeing this guy more than I normally would eye somebody. 0.99

00:16:30.000 Suspecting him. 0.99

00:16:30.000 I'm like waiting in line and I'll just be like, what's that guy doing? 0.99

00:16:33.000 Like a dog that used to bite you.

00:16:35.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:16:36.000 And I've caught eyes with him like three times. 0.87

00:16:38.000 I feel so fucking bad about this. 0.83

00:16:40.000 I might have to switch Starbucks because of it. 0.96

00:16:42.000 Just switch Starbucks, dude.

00:16:43.000 Yeah, I'll just do that.

00:16:44.000 It's on you, man.

00:16:46.000 But then he's kicking me out of the Starbucks.

00:16:49.000 What if it's him, too?

00:16:50.000 It's probably even weirder.

00:16:51.000 The idea that you somehow or another manifested that is where things get really spooky.

00:16:55.000 You know, the people that believe that you manifest every single action in your life and that you have some sort of ultimate control.

00:17:01.000 I wouldn't say it's not really you.

00:17:02.000 It's more like the Vedanta perspective.

00:17:05.000 Basically, there's like a singular consciousness.

00:17:07.000 You know, we're kind of like, you know, we're part of the projection.

00:17:11.000 Okay. 0.98

00:17:11.000 What is the way, if that is the case, how can I avoid some horrible bullshit in my life? 0.98

00:17:17.000 I just have to do the right thing and be super nice and always go in a positive direction. 1.00

00:17:22.000 You can't control that shit, dude. 1.00

00:17:24.000 You can't control it. 1.00

00:17:25.000 I'm starting to think that you can't control it at all.

00:17:27.000 If you can't avoid it, just ignore it. 0.99

00:17:28.000 What's the bullshit that you can't ignore? 1.00

00:17:30.000 Oh, well, just like life and death, people dying, sickness. 1.00

00:17:33.000 For whatever reason right now, in all my life, for whatever reason right now, the last...

00:17:43.000 Pause, please.

00:17:48.000 Pause, please. 0.85

00:17:50.000 He's been dating porn stars. 1.00

00:17:52.000 Okay, what the fuck, man? 1.00

00:17:54.000 You know what I'm saying? 1.00

00:17:55.000 I also watched a dog fucking die. 1.00

00:17:57.000 I've also got mugged by a gun. 0.99

00:17:59.000 I've also fucking had a million other things lately that have been happening that in my whole life never has been. 0.99

00:18:05.000 My life has been boring as fuck. 0.99

00:18:08.000 And now I'm having horrible things happen to me at the same time as I'm having the best time of my life. 0.99

00:18:13.000 Well, you know, maybe there's something wrong in the formula of how you're interacting with the grid.

00:18:20.000 Maybe there's something wrong.

00:18:21.000 If you had to...

00:18:22.000 Forget it.

00:18:23.000 Forget your life.

00:18:24.000 Put it away.

00:18:24.000 You're not even you.

00:18:26.000 If you had to look at your life objectively...

00:18:27.000 I mean, how many people get audited?

00:18:28.000 Hold on, let's take an exercise.

00:18:29.000 I got audited, too. 1.00

00:18:29.000 What the fuck? 1.00

00:18:29.000 A lot of people. 1.00

00:18:30.000 That's how the government steals money from you.

00:18:32.000 Hold, please.

00:18:33.000 Not one of my friends have got audited.

00:18:34.000 Hold please, hold please.

00:18:35.000 If you were not you, okay?

00:18:37.000 Forget about the emotional attachments, you have all your issues.

00:18:40.000 How would you fix you?

00:18:41.000 What would you say, you know, the one thing that we would like to correct about Brian would be X? What would it be?

00:18:48.000 What's the number one thing?

00:18:50.000 Yeah, if you could, instead of working at something, if you could just correct something about your behavior, the way you think about things, or the way you look at the world, or anything, what would it be?

00:19:00.000 Do not throw cum on walls. 0.88

00:19:02.000 Okay. 0.97

00:19:02.000 What if you just stop doing that? 0.97

00:19:04.000 Do you think it's related?

00:19:05.000 I really don't.

00:19:06.000 I never think negative about myself.

00:19:10.000 I don't feel like I have any flaws.

00:19:12.000 I don't overthink my personal problems.

00:19:15.000 This is what I'm trying to get to.

00:19:16.000 This is what I'm trying to get to.

00:19:16.000 I don't know if it's either or.

00:19:18.000 Look, there's babies that are killed in drive-bys. 0.99

00:19:21.000 And when I hear about that, I go, well, how the fuck does that work? 0.99

00:19:24.000 What's going on there? 0.98

00:19:25.000 Did the baby have some negative thoughts?

00:19:28.000 And then I think about it and I think about all the positive things that have happened in my life and all the positive things that I know have manifested themselves through a certain type of thinking, a certain ethic, a certain way of looking at the world and I wonder if it is either or or if it's a combination of things.

00:19:45.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:19:46.000 Daniel?

00:19:48.000 I tuned out for a second, sorry.

00:19:50.000 I don't blame it.

00:19:53.000 No, but I just personally think that the only choice we ever have is to look at the bright side or the crappy side.

00:20:00.000 So why not just always look at the bright side?

00:20:02.000 Yeah, but you were looking at the end of civilization.

00:20:05.000 At the moment I was looking at your Doom statue and your voodoo doll and your sort of Balinese demon there. 1.00

00:20:11.000 Welcome to the dark side.

00:20:12.000 I just wanted to represent it.

00:20:13.000 This, well no, I'm actually, the Balinese stuff is just, I've always been fascinated by Eastern R. I think it's beautiful.

00:20:19.000 And I think it's amazing how cheap it is.

00:20:21.000 You could get like this amazing thing.

00:20:23.000 Because it's haunted.

00:20:24.000 That's why.

00:20:24.000 Because there's little kids that made it.

00:20:26.000 Little four year old kids made it.

00:20:28.000 Little ginger kids. 0.82

00:20:29.000 This is artwork.

00:20:29.000 I have one of those things too.

00:20:33.000 I've bought paintings before and I don't get a lot of what people are really into.

00:20:40.000 I was at a guy's house once and he had a picture on the wall and I go, oh did your kid make that?

00:20:46.000 And this guy goes, oh no that's a...

00:20:50.000 That's like $30,000. 0.99

00:20:51.000 And I went, what the fuck are you talking about? 0.98

00:20:54.000 It looked like some painting on some ripped pieces of cardboard that were randomly stuck in a beautiful frame. 0.99

00:21:00.000 And I really thought that it was something that a kid did. 0.99

00:21:04.000 So I don't get that shit. 1.00

00:21:06.000 There needs to be a pure one that's just that kind of shit. 1.00

00:21:08.000 Like Gold Buddhas, but more of a corporate place that's just super cheap. 0.99

00:21:11.000 That could be like $10.

00:21:13.000 I want to buy a dragon mask.

00:21:15.000 I want feathers. 0.57

00:21:15.000 I want to be cheap. 0.57

00:21:17.000 Because that kind of shit's popular. 1.00

00:21:19.000 Everyone likes that kind of shit. 1.00

00:21:20.000 Why don't they make it like a Walmart of that shit? 1.00

00:21:22.000 Brian, I think you're missing the point. 1.00

00:21:23.000 I also think that they should make cat food and dog food into one food.

00:21:27.000 They could probably easily do that.

00:21:29.000 I don't think they can. 1.00

00:21:30.000 I think they have different dietary needs, you fuck. 1.00

00:21:31.000 They can all eat chicken, right? 1.00

00:21:33.000 Okay, so put that on the list.

00:21:34.000 Well, if you want to go straight chicken.

00:21:35.000 They can all eat basil.

00:21:36.000 Alright, put chicken and basil on the list.

00:21:38.000 This guy is brutal to work with, man.

00:21:40.000 I'm sorry I brought you in here.

00:21:41.000 It makes sense, right?

00:21:42.000 I brought a serious man in here. 0.99

00:21:44.000 He's a fucking New York Times bestseller. 1.00

00:21:46.000 It drives me crazy. 1.00

00:21:46.000 And you're talking nonsense about cat and dog food, you lazy cunt. 1.00

00:21:49.000 Why don't they just do that? 1.00

00:21:49.000 Go out and buy the cat food. 1.00

00:21:50.000 It seems really easy.

00:21:51.000 Go out and buy the dog food. 0.99

00:21:52.000 Stop fucking up the show. 0.99

00:21:52.000 My cat's eating dog food and my dog's eating the cat food. 0.99

00:21:55.000 Why don't they just mix it? 1.00

00:21:55.000 You got a problem that you got cats for a bunch of ex-girlfriends, you fuck. 1.00

00:21:59.000 This guy, he gets a new relationship, and he's like, oh my god, we should get a kid. 1.00

00:22:03.000 And they go out and they get a fucking dog. 1.00

00:22:05.000 And then the girls dump him, and he's got a goddamn zoo at his house. 1.00

00:22:08.000 It's like watching Little Orphan Annie. 0.99

00:22:10.000 I'm like Daddy Warbrooks.

00:22:12.000 Sorry, man.

00:22:13.000 This is a serious podcast, but it's also a comedy podcast.

00:22:17.000 The good news is, we've had an excellent conversation. 1.00

00:22:20.000 I guarantee you a lot of people will buy your shit. 1.00

00:22:23.000 Hey, Joe, I was at the comedy store, and there's that whole ghost thing that happens at the comedy store. 1.00

00:22:27.000 There's no fucking ghost anywhere, goddammit. 0.98

00:22:30.000 I'm so tired of... 1.00

00:22:30.000 Do you believe in ghosts? 1.00

00:22:32.000 Of course.

00:22:32.000 Oh my god.

00:22:34.000 Joe, I was sitting in the green room behind the main room.

00:22:38.000 We were all smoking pot.

00:22:39.000 Who doesn't know that ghosts are real?

00:22:40.000 I've collected so many incredible stories about ghosts.

00:22:43.000 Really?

00:22:43.000 What do they do?

00:22:45.000 I mean, a friend of mine, her friend's brother had committed suicide and she was sleeping in the house where he had died.

00:22:56.000 And she had a dream that they were having sex.

00:22:59.000 And she woke up from the dream, and her covers were up, and there was this kind of spirit figure over her.

00:23:05.000 And as soon as she began to open her eyes, it dissipated.

00:23:08.000 There's no way that could have been a dream inside a dream.

00:23:10.000 No, of course.

00:23:11.000 It could have been anything.

00:23:13.000 Because there's no...

00:23:15.000 How are you going to verify this type of thing?

00:23:17.000 When I've collected a whole number of anecdotes told to me by people and observing their state, their efforts to kind of understand it, to fathom it.

00:23:28.000 My own experiences also have had similar.

00:23:31.000 I think that there's no doubt that probably You know, psychic energy collects in physical environments, and when people are no longer there, if they have a stake in that environment and they're not finished with their business in the world, they hang out, you know, or some piece of them.

00:23:46.000 That the energy of regret and resentment or something, some sort of a bad energy, is enough to keep a residue of...

00:23:53.000 When my father died, he had a loft that was full of his paintings and his sculptures.

00:23:58.000 He had a big freight elevator.

00:24:00.000 I was working with two guys, bringing his stuff out.

00:24:03.000 As we were bringing out the last shipment of his sculptures down in the freight elevator, suddenly the light bulb just totally popped.

00:24:10.000 We were in darkness.

00:24:12.000 We were all looking at it.

00:24:13.000 Nobody had touched it.

00:24:14.000 Somehow that psychic energy that was constellated between us and him caused this thing to happen.

00:24:21.000 Or the light bulb.

00:24:22.000 Joe, I was in the green room.

00:24:25.000 Like the phone call that you didn't have to make today to me, there are certain things when you feel the synchronicity, it's like a click.

00:24:33.000 It's like you have an intuitive acceptance that you're being shown a little bit of the fabric of space-time making a little bit of a ripple or something.

00:24:44.000 I was in the green room, seriously, with like eight people, nine people.

00:24:47.000 Was it at the comedy store?

00:24:48.000 The comedy store, like four days ago.

00:24:49.000 The comedy store, if you didn't know, just FYI, was Ciro's nightclub, and it was Bugsy Siegel's hangout in Hollywood, and a lot of people allegedly were murdered there.

00:24:59.000 And every single person who has been there for more than X amount of years has some sort of a ghost story.

00:25:07.000 Every one of the waitresses has something. 1.00

00:25:09.000 Managers have something.

00:25:10.000 You know, how much of it is psychosomatic?

00:25:12.000 How much of it is suggestion?

00:25:13.000 How much is the other comics?

00:25:14.000 And I was sitting there with like eight other people.

00:25:17.000 We're just smoking weed, hanging out talking, and suddenly the door sounded like somebody shot a gun through.

00:25:23.000 It didn't sound like somebody just shook it or kicked it. 0.99

00:25:26.000 It seemed way more powerful than that to the fact that I think everybody in the room kind of got down and was like, what the fuck was that? 0.95

00:25:32.000 And we all kind of got down on the couches and on the ground as if we all thought for sure that was a gunshot. 0.97

00:25:38.000 Right.

00:25:38.000 Well, just let me stop right there.

00:25:40.000 It's an old-ass building. 0.90

00:25:41.000 Here's what's important. 1.00

00:25:42.000 This is a building from the 1920s that's on a fucking fault line. 0.98

00:25:46.000 Those buildings shift. 0.99

00:25:47.000 And every now and then they shift and they literally go, crack!

00:25:50.000 And it'll make a noise.

00:25:51.000 I've been in the comic store when it makes noises. 0.98

00:25:53.000 It was scary as fuck. 0.85

00:25:55.000 I'm not saying that it wasn't a ghost, but I'm saying that the most likely explanation is that. 0.99

00:25:59.000 I thought it was another comic and it's just like this secret.

00:26:02.000 Like, oh yeah, we take this plunger and then we just hit it as hard as we can.

00:26:05.000 There's like an old comedy secret.

00:26:07.000 I'm sorry, my grandparents lived in a supposedly haunted house, and I stayed there with them in Newark, New Jersey.

00:26:14.000 And it was on North 9th Street, and there was a guy who actually died in the house.

00:26:17.000 And he was a guy who was renting a room there, and he died.

00:26:20.000 And they always thought that this house was haunted, because the house is always making noises. 0.99

00:26:26.000 But it's a fucking house that was built in, like, 1909. You know, it's an old fucking house. 1.00

00:26:32.000 And when you're dealing in a place like New Jersey that's moist all the time and it rains all the time, and then it gets hot in the summer and cold in the winter, wood is like, you know, it's an organic piece of, you know, construction. 0.99

00:26:46.000 It constricts, it expands, depending on the moisture in the air, depending on it being cold or hot. 0.98

00:26:52.000 And old houses like that, they make a lot of fucking noise. 0.98

00:26:55.000 They creak. 0.99

00:26:56.000 They're always going... 1.00

00:26:58.000 And people are like, this fucking place is haunted! 1.00

00:27:01.000 Or it's an old house, man. 1.00

00:27:03.000 But I'm not completely averse to the idea of ghosts, but a lot of people that talk about ghosts are full of shit. 0.99

00:27:09.000 Well, I just think if there is ghosts, there would be an easy way to prove it, and we've talked about it before. 0.99

00:27:13.000 You just go to somebody that's wife's died in a rape, and you go to his grave, or her grave, and just start humping her grave or something like that.

00:27:21.000 Oh, dude. 0.99

00:27:22.000 You know, if there was such things as Ghost, Ghost would come out and be like, dude, what the fuck are you doing? 0.99

00:27:25.000 Maybe not. 0.99

00:27:25.000 Maybe they wouldn't want to indulge you in your nonsense. 0.99

00:27:27.000 Maybe you would hit the wrong frequency. 0.95

00:27:28.000 No, come on. 0.85

00:27:29.000 Look, maybe it's not something that can easily be tuned in.

00:27:32.000 Maybe it's like the Northern Lights. 0.97

00:27:34.000 Like the idea of, you know, you can't capture the Northern Lights and put it in the fucking beam and blast it on Manhattan. 0.97

00:27:39.000 The Northern Lights are, you know... 0.97

00:27:41.000 It's ethereal.

00:27:42.000 It's some sort of a thing that moves and pulsates in the sky.

00:27:45.000 Maybe that's what a ghost is, a very minor version of that.

00:27:49.000 It doesn't have a rhyme or reason for when it exists or doesn't exist.

00:27:53.000 I think it probably does have a rhyme and reason.

00:27:56.000 It's just we don't understand those laws yet.

00:27:59.000 It's not to say that it violates nature.

00:28:02.000 It's just that our understanding of natural law is limited by our mental conception, by the type of science that we've constructed and so on.

00:28:09.000 Are you convinced?

00:28:10.000 I mean, when you look at the evidence of ghosts, not look at ghost shows.

00:28:16.000 If you looked at ghost shows...

00:28:18.000 Wait, wait.

00:28:18.000 What evidence are you talking about?

00:28:19.000 Do we have any solid evidence ever that there was a ghost or just speculation?

00:28:23.000 Almost entirely speculation.

00:28:25.000 There's no scientific evidence.

00:28:26.000 Well, that doesn't mean that they're not real, because if you think about what a ghost is, if a ghost is something that's not in this dimension and sort of flits in and out of it, how do you measure that?

00:28:35.000 I mean, science is, you know, everybody says, well, science says there are no ghosts, or there's no scientific evidence of ghosts. 0.98

00:28:42.000 Well, science was not really designed to measure shit like ghosts. 0.98

00:28:46.000 Science is designed to measure, like, how much does lead weigh? 0.99

00:28:49.000 You know, what happens when a star goes supernova?

00:28:52.000 Observable things!

00:28:53.000 When you get something like a ghost, if a ghost was real, and it's an incredibly rare phenomenon that depended on some really exotic conditions... 0.96

00:29:03.000 How the fuck are you going to measure that? 1.00

00:29:04.000 I'm giving the offer, if there's any ghosts listening, they can fucking rape me tonight, and they can just rape my ass all day long with their ghost dicks, and if it happens, I'll let you know. 1.00

00:29:15.000 I got news for you. 1.00

00:29:16.000 If they're going to come here from another dimension, they can do better than you.

00:29:18.000 I mean, for instance, there is decent and interesting evidence around reincarnation.

00:29:23.000 Really?

00:29:23.000 There's a book, what's his name, Ian Stevens, who's a professor at the University of Virginia, wrote a 2,500-page book called Where Biology and Reincarnation Intersects.

00:29:31.000 And he found all around the world there were children who had spontaneous recall of past lives, and often very specific.

00:29:40.000 Like in India, they would be like, well, you know, I lived in this town, my wife had this name, I had two kids. 1.00

00:29:45.000 So in a number of cases, he found these kids, and he went back to the towns that they talked about, and they found this family and established that there had been this connection.

00:29:56.000 And there was a sense of familiarity.

00:29:59.000 No, no genetic.

00:29:59.000 No genetic line?

00:30:00.000 No genetic line.

00:30:01.000 And sometimes the kids would even have a pronounced birthmark, like a birthmark on the neck or something, and it would turn out that the previous incarnation, perhaps, had died of a wound to the neck in a fight or something like that.

00:30:14.000 Is it possible that the connection is an abstract one, that they haven't met it yet, but that yet there's not a balanced value to learned experiences that are transferred through genetics, like instincts?

00:30:27.000 And that perhaps some instincts that we have are really like, things go wrong, you learn from them, that's why you're afraid of cats.

00:30:34.000 I mean, kids are afraid of monsters that live in New York City.

00:30:36.000 Well, it's like a seven-year-old kid suddenly out of nowhere saying, you know, I have a wife in Agra.

00:30:40.000 I have two kids.

00:30:41.000 I need to see them again.

00:30:42.000 But this is my point.

00:30:43.000 Isn't it possible?

00:30:44.000 I mean, isn't it possible that somehow or another that there is a memory that through whatever mutation or whatever extreme condition or weird circumstance as far as like physical biology becomes a more potent one and that this, as it is transferred through generations, awakens.

00:31:02.000 This memory awakens.

00:31:04.000 This experience that someone who shared these genetics so many generations ago actually did have that all of a sudden For whatever strange reason.

00:31:13.000 I don't think there's any idea that genetic material could hold memory like that.

00:31:18.000 Well, what about memes?

00:31:19.000 What about the idea that even racism can be transferred genetically?

00:31:22.000 I mean, that's a really kind of a widely considered idea.

00:31:25.000 Almost unprovable, but considered by mainstream scientists.

00:31:28.000 I think that a lot of those ideas about all these things being inherited by the genetics being this kind of master molecule are actually being kind of challenged right now by the emerging biology of epigenetics.

00:31:38.000 Which is recognizing that awareness actually begins at the boundary of the cell where chemical signals are exchanged.

00:31:46.000 There's a kind of cognitive process that happens even at the permeable boundary of the cell, as some signals are allowed in and some are ignored or rejected.

00:31:54.000 And that what's allowed in actually then influences how the genetic material expresses itself and reproduces itself.

00:32:03.000 Actually, it's not so much the genetic material as the master molecule.

00:32:06.000 It's more as if the whole cell is a unit of cognition or awareness.

00:32:10.000 This is very much thinking of people like Varela.

00:32:12.000 But is this a theory?

00:32:14.000 This is a theory.

00:32:15.000 Okay, but they haven't done a detailed accounting here.

00:32:18.000 I mean, this is, you know, you look at the biologist Bruce Lipton, he has a book called Biology Beyond Belief, really looking at how, you know, consciousness and awareness begin even at a cellular level, and how that in itself influences and inflects how the genetic material expresses itself, that the genes are not master molecules.

00:32:38.000 The whole idea of it is so fascinating.

00:32:42.000 Where do instincts come from?

00:32:46.000 Is it all from one initial source?

00:32:48.000 Stay away from fire.

00:32:50.000 You get scared when you see snakes.

00:32:51.000 These are all learned impressions.

00:32:54.000 In our material, the material that makes human beings, there's certain things that you show people.

00:32:59.000 And children, when they're really young, have certain fears and notions of the boogeyman and the monster that lives in the woods and the things in the dark.

00:33:07.000 And a lot of these are imprinted from being killed by jaguars, from some proto-hominid that lived 5 million years ago.

00:33:16.000 They got killed by jaguars.

00:33:17.000 And those instincts are still tingling in the background noise of our minds.

00:33:22.000 Mm-hmm.

00:33:23.000 That's possible.

00:33:23.000 And that could also be explained.

00:33:24.000 You ever get into like Rupert Sheldrake's ideas around like morphogenic fields?

00:33:27.000 Yeah, about dogs knowing when their parents are coming home.

00:33:31.000 So maybe there was this species encounter that was like a near-death encounter for humanity and it left this morphogenic field of fear and terror around the snake or around the jaguar or something like that.

00:33:42.000 Well, we are certainly moving, if I had to guess, into some sort of a state where that becomes more and more aware.

00:33:49.000 Wouldn't you agree?

00:33:50.000 What becomes more and more aware?

00:33:52.000 The state of this interconnectedness, this morphogenetic field, this idea that...

00:33:58.000 We are living in some sort of a complex meshwork of biological life and natural laws and physics and space and radiation and all of it together combined.

00:34:11.000 People are realizing it now way more than ever before.

00:34:15.000 When I was a kid, there was none of this talk.

00:34:17.000 There was nothing along these lines.

00:34:19.000 Yeah, it's extraordinary.

00:34:20.000 And maybe that is pointing towards a kind of next phase of evolution as a species.

00:34:27.000 Do you think it's technology that's going to do that?

00:34:29.000 Well, I think we have to look at technology itself as an aspect of the evolution of consciousness.

00:34:34.000 You know, that actually, like, we're tool-using and tool-making species.

00:34:38.000 We make a new tool, then we look at the tool or the instrument we've made, and it reflects us back at ourselves.

00:34:44.000 And then it gives us new metaphors for understanding ourselves.

00:34:46.000 Then it allows us to make another more, you know, advanced tool, and that creates a whole new set of metaphors.

00:34:51.000 So now we've gotten to the point in our tool creation and tool-using where this feedback loop is happening faster and faster.

00:34:58.000 So we're having, but it's still, you know, a tool is a projection of our consciousness, of our thought into the material realm, which then gives us information about ourselves, which then leads us to create another tool, which also advances and evolves our consciousness in that process.

00:35:13.000 Do you ever get to the point where you get upset that you have a connection with these items, these technological items like phones, or do you not regret it ever?

00:35:22.000 Or do you just accept it and enjoy it?

00:35:24.000 I think it's very fascinating.

00:35:27.000 Part of what we've been doing with Reality Sandwich is bringing people down to work with indigenous shamans and elders.

00:35:32.000 So recently we went down to Columbia and worked with these Kogi guys from the mountains in Columbia. 1.00

00:35:37.000 And when we hung out with them, we were in a place without any electricity for eight days.

00:35:42.000 So no phone, no computer.

00:35:44.000 And after like a day and a half, I was like, what did I want all that stuff for again?

00:35:48.000 Like, this is so much nicer.

00:35:50.000 You know, suddenly you can see the stars, you know, you're at night, you like light a fire, then the fire goes out, you go to sleep, you wake up at dawn.

00:35:57.000 I mean, you know, I think that actually we may find that we've gone way too far on this technological path, that we thought, you know, we've had a kind of, in a sense, the religious belief of modern society is linear technological progress, leading to some kind of singularity or transformation.

00:36:15.000 That we may actually back up from that and be like, well, wait a second, where is this stuff...

00:36:19.000 I mean, actually, I have more plastics in my tissues.

00:36:23.000 You know, my eyes are going bad from looking at these tiny screens.

00:36:26.000 You know, why is life constantly mediated by glowing rectangular screens anyway?

00:36:30.000 That actually we might want to, you know, retract from this technological path and develop in a different direction, which doesn't mean rejecting technology.

00:36:39.000 It's more about mastering our projections rather than feeling that we always have to get enmeshed in them and then move in that direction.

00:36:46.000 Is it sort of like riding a bike too fast and you're going downhill and you go, oh, fuck, it's good to ride this bike, but I've gotten kind of away from my own biological control of this situation?

00:36:57.000 Well, that's certainly what's happened to us as a species. 0.84

00:37:00.000 I mean, you know, on every level we've been seduced by our technological projections.

00:37:04.000 In a sense, we've lost our grounding on the planet.

00:37:07.000 Do you ever consider the idea that when some sort of a weird symbiotic relationship where it's our job as the host to create this environment where the parasite, which is technology, this new life form that we've created to exist and then ultimately discard us because it is the next stage of not organic life but of consciousness and that consciousness, the next stage of consciousness will be artificial consciousness created by this, this consciousness that was created by biological life.

00:37:35.000 And that we are only here to usher in the next stage.

00:37:38.000 And that next stage is an electronic form. 0.98

00:37:40.000 A stage that doesn't have emotions or nonsense or any of this shit that ferments us. 0.67

00:37:45.000 That's just not the way I look at it. 0.89

00:37:46.000 First of all, we don't know.

00:37:48.000 We have no reason at this point to really believe that an artificial intelligence can become conscious in the way we are.

00:37:57.000 I mean, machines may have a form.

00:37:59.000 Everything may have a form of sentience.

00:38:01.000 Right.

00:38:02.000 But we may still have a very important role if we're in our proper state in the cosmic unfolding.

00:38:11.000 But should we?

00:38:12.000 I mean, if we are a step along the way, who's to say that that step eventually...

00:38:18.000 It continues along a biological train.

00:38:21.000 Maybe it really is truly our destiny to create some sort of an artificial life that's not burdened down by our monkey DNA and all the instincts that we needed to evolve to this point with the curiosity that would allow us to make something as crazy as artificial intelligence and computers.

00:38:35.000 Maybe we're just the carriers.

00:38:37.000 Maybe we're the carriers of the disease that eventually takes off and develops on its own.

00:38:41.000 I guess part of what I would suggest to you is that part of our opportunity right now is to become co-creative with the evolutionary process, and that in a way means that we have to step into a much more responsible and mature role where we actually become participants.

00:38:56.000 And in a way, we still kind of enjoy The spectacle of our own alienation and our own potential destruction.

00:39:04.000 So we kind of enjoy elaborating these futuristic mythologies of how our technology is going to overwhelm us or devour us.

00:39:13.000 That might be the case, but all we really know at this point is that we have will, we have intelligence, we have consciousness, and we're not using it very well.

00:39:22.000 So the first thing I would think that we would want to try to do is use it very, very effectively to see what type of better situation we can rapidly create, you know, rather than fobbing off our responsibility onto, oh, there's going to be this technological thing,

00:39:37.000 or it's too late, we fucked We're good to go. 0.90

00:39:59.000 Well, I do agree that as a person who's a big proponent of team people, I definitely advocate the idea of us figuring out what the fuck we are doing and making it better for all of us and our relationship with the planet. 0.99

00:40:11.000 But to me, that doesn't seem like you're fobbing that off, considering the possibility that we are merely here, as many other parasites and hosts are in this world.

00:40:20.000 And you look at grasshoppers where they're infected by aquatic worms and the aquatic worms trick the grasshopper into jumping into water and the grasshopper drowns so that the worm can be born out of its body.

00:40:33.000 I personally think that we actually are infected by a parasitical agency.

00:40:38.000 And I would say that agency is something like the dominator empire complex.

00:40:42.000 The sense that we have of separation from nature, the sense that we have the right to annihilate ecosystems, dominate ecosystems, control other people, the whole trip of empire, the slavery.

00:40:55.000 I mean, there's still tons of slavery around the world, domination of women. 1.00

00:40:59.000 That's the parasite that's eating us alive right now.

00:41:01.000 And that's where, if we can go through our inner initiatory process, We can begin to find the antidote or the cure to that.

00:41:11.000 But it's not about, from my perspective, giving it up to technology as an amazing thing.

00:41:18.000 It's more like reclaiming our human capacity.

00:41:21.000 And for me, that's really where the knowledge of the indigenous people is not folk tale.

00:41:27.000 It's not silly.

00:41:28.000 It's not worthless.

00:41:29.000 It's actually something that those of us who care about seeking to move into an evolutionary framework, they have tools and gifts for us.

00:41:41.000 And that's why part of what I've been trying to do over the last couple, well, a lot of my work, but now in a different way, is build bridges to the indigenous people and their knowledge systems.

00:41:51.000 So I'm working now with the Kogi in Colombia and also the Sequoia from Ecuador.

00:41:56.000 What I meant by that was not that it has to be.

00:42:01.000 It's almost like when I look at the relationship that we have with technology and I look at the relationship that different parasites and different hosts have, it just...

00:42:13.000 As a consideration, you have to think about the fact that our society is completely obsessed with pushing innovation.

00:42:19.000 We're completely obsessed.

00:42:21.000 And I often look at the dominator culture, what you describe, and I say, well, you know, you're right. 0.99

00:42:25.000 I mean, that is a huge fucking problem. 0.97

00:42:27.000 I mean, war and the domination of other countries and battling for resources. 0.98

00:42:31.000 But what do you say to people that say that there's no way you can have a society that reaches this particular height this fast without that as a byproduct and that, in fact, the reason why people push so hard to innovate and to Create new things and conquer new boundaries,

00:42:50.000 both scientifically and socially, is that it's all almost a byproduct of this desire to innovate and create and produce this next thing, and that this is all a part of us creating some artificial things, some intelligent things.

00:43:06.000 I think we have to break the trance of technology.

00:43:10.000 Which is not to say that we reject technology, but we have to break that trance that somehow this linear technological progress is necessarily bringing us to something super amazing.

00:43:22.000 And for me, the shift in the future is more to a kind of psychotechnical phase of development.

00:43:30.000 By that I mean that if you've had the DMT and the ayahuasca experiences, the yoga experiences and so on, you recognize there are these vast dimensions within the psyche that are basically unknown continents.

00:43:44.000 And in a sense...

00:43:46.000 That, for me, is where the action is going to lie for us in the future, as well as potentially exploring other planets, other solar systems, and all this stuff.

00:43:56.000 But at the moment, we really more need to get control of our thought projections.

00:44:02.000 And the only way to do that is to undergo an initiatory process that involves getting into our unconscious patterns.

00:44:12.000 Initiatory process?

00:44:13.000 What do you mean? 0.91

00:44:15.000 Yeah, well, I mean, like, you know, hanging, you know, fasting or hanging by your pecs for six days or taking ayahuasca, you know, for a couple weeks until, you know, you're so nauseous that you can't believe it, but still vision and insights keep coming up and they begin to heal you of your, you know, pathetic humanness. 0.89

00:44:37.000 Well, you say pathetic humanist, but then are you completely averse to the idea that we are just here to develop something else?

00:44:44.000 I mean, we obviously are just a step along the way and we'll be unrecognizable a few million years from now.

00:44:48.000 I think that what we're here to develop is integrity, consciousness, and willpower.

00:44:53.000 And once we've developed that, then we can think about what else we may develop.

00:44:57.000 At the moment, we don't have that.

00:44:58.000 We just think we do.

00:44:59.000 Do you feel happy that you're, and I believe you are, one of the people that's sort of an agent of this sort of, I believe right now, currently, we're in a very unusual age of enlightenment.

00:45:11.000 And I think that the level of enlightenment that we've achieved culturally over the last year, certainly not everybody, not last year, last decade, certainly not over everybody, but generally, has been more than anything that I can ever remember in my lifetime.

00:45:28.000 And people like you that are pushing these ideas and people like you that are trying to challenge the way people view things and the standard predetermined patterns of behavior we seem to have come to accept, you're a part of moving this thing along.

00:45:42.000 These kind of discussions are part of moving this thing along where people in college or people who are getting their first jobs, people who are starting their own first business, they're stopping and they're reconsidering the direction that they move forward and what their motives are and whether or not they're just caught up in momentum.

00:45:58.000 Yeah, man, I feel extremely humble and lucky.

00:46:03.000 Do you feel obligated?

00:46:04.000 Yes, I feel tremendous obligation and responsibility to do what I can to help out, you know?

00:46:11.000 So is there a way to stop this?

00:46:13.000 What is the number one problem that we have?

00:46:15.000 If we have a yearn for destruction and we're constantly moving in that direction...

00:46:19.000 The number one problem that we have is that consciousness and subjectivity are mass produced by a system that is basically keeping us in a state of passivity and ignorance.

00:46:32.000 Is that system a natural system?

00:46:34.000 Is that system there because everything else, like the way alpha wolves treat beta wolves, that system is almost set up in place so that there is an antagonist?

00:46:43.000 Sure.

00:46:43.000 I see it as an evolutionary process and just as the embryo has to push against the shell and finally break through, or doesn't.

00:46:52.000 You are inspired by an antagonist.

00:46:54.000 Ali needed Frasier. 0.74

00:46:56.000 Absolutely.

00:46:58.000 We definitely have a powerful military, industrial, corporate empire complex that has sunk its roots into our subconscious processes and our psychology.

00:47:13.000 It requires a lot of disciplined effort to recognize how it is operating through us on so many different levels And then begin to turn it around from within. 0.97

00:47:26.000 That's the facts, bitches. 1.00

00:47:29.000 That's about it. 0.99

00:47:30.000 That's all you're going to absorb.

00:47:31.000 I don't think you've...

00:47:32.000 I haven't absorbed this.

00:47:34.000 This is an awesome conversation.

00:47:36.000 Thank you very much for coming over here, man.

00:47:37.000 My pleasure.

00:47:38.000 Thanks for having me.

00:47:39.000 I appreciate it.

00:47:39.000 Everything that I thought it would be, plus more.

00:47:41.000 If anybody needs to get a hold of you or check out your stuff, what should they do?

00:47:45.000 And what did you hand me here?

00:47:47.000 Okay, so I'll give you a quick rundown.

00:47:49.000 Okay.

00:47:50.000 Evolver.net is our social network.

00:47:51.000 Evolver.net.

00:47:52.000 We have the Evolver Social Movement.

00:47:54.000 We have about 50 groups around the world now, mostly in the U.S., who beat up every month.

00:47:58.000 We do consciousness raising.

00:47:59.000 We create a theme that could be the future of psychedelics.

00:48:02.000 It could be extraterrestrials.

00:48:04.000 It could be sustainability or permaculture.

00:48:06.000 We use those as both gathering points where people raise consciousness and learn, but then also nexus points for communities to build.

00:48:13.000 How long have you been doing Evolver?

00:48:14.000 It's been about three years. 0.99

00:48:16.000 You emailed me about this a long time ago when it was first time, but I'm so overwhelmed by shit online. 0.97

00:48:20.000 I understand, me too. 0.92

00:48:20.000 Don't worry about it. 0.92

00:48:21.000 So it's like a Facebook?

00:48:22.000 Like a psychedelic Facebook?

00:48:24.000 Well, kind of.

00:48:24.000 It's a way for a kind of global community that's trying to understand this new paradigm and move into it, to reach out to each other, and then self-organize.

00:48:33.000 Has anybody ganked my name, my screen name?

00:48:35.000 Can I get my screen name?

00:48:36.000 Joe Rogan?

00:48:37.000 Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:48:37.000 Beautiful.

00:48:38.000 And then we have a web magazine, Reality Sandwich.

00:48:40.000 RealitySandwich.com?

00:48:42.000 .com.

00:48:43.000 We're doing live webinars.

00:48:44.000 We just did one on shamanism practices with Alberto Villaldo.

00:48:48.000 So that's evolverintensives.com.

00:48:50.000 And now we're doing a line of books that include this book here, Jose Arguelles' book, Manifesto for the New Esphere, which is about this idea of a transition from the biosphere to the new esphere.

00:49:00.000 Nice.

00:49:00.000 And what is...

00:49:01.000 You're on the iPad, right?

00:49:02.000 You have iBooks and everything like that.

00:49:04.000 Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:49:04.000 We've got iBooks, iBooks.

00:49:05.000 So EvolverEditions.com.

00:49:06.000 And there's probably some other stuff.

00:49:07.000 And UnifyEarth.com is this idea for this December 21st, 2012 global event.

00:49:13.000 And people can actually sign up.

00:49:14.000 There's a resource map there.

00:49:14.000 What is that again?

00:49:15.000 This idea to use Cirque du Soleil spectacle.

00:49:17.000 No, no, I mean, what is the name of the site?

00:49:19.000 Unifyearth.com.

00:49:21.000 Unifyearth.com.

00:49:21.000 And also, if you're into books, Breaking Over the Head was how I was introduced to Daniel.

00:49:25.000 It's a great book.

00:49:26.000 And I read half of Quetzalcoatl. 0.99

00:49:28.000 I am a fucking ADD retard, though, and I put it down. 0.93

00:49:31.000 I'll pick it up again now that we've had such an awesome conversation. 0.99

00:49:34.000 Daniel Pinchbeck on Twitter.

00:49:36.000 Please follow him on Twitter along with following Red Band.

00:49:39.000 And follow The Death Squad on iTunes.

00:49:43.000 It's a fantastic podcast collection of comedians.

00:49:46.000 We had Steve-O on yesterday.

00:49:48.000 Steve-O was on yesterday.

00:49:49.000 There's a great show with John Reap and John Heffron that he just started doing.

00:49:52.000 There's Freddie Lockhart has a show called What's Good Now.

00:49:55.000 There's Ari Shafir has a great show called The Skeptic Tank.

00:49:57.000 Tom Segura and his woman, Christina, have Your Mom's House.

00:50:01.000 So there's a lot of great podcasts on there.

00:50:03.000 It's a lot of fun.

00:50:03.000 It's, of course, all free.

00:50:05.000 The Verizon Wireless Center, October 7th.

00:50:08.000 Me and Joey Diaz and probably Ari, too.

00:50:10.000 I haven't talked to him.

00:50:11.000 But the tickets just went on sale today, so we'll be there October 7th.

00:50:16.000 Thank you very much, Mr. Pinchback, for coming back.

00:50:18.000 Thanks very much for having me, guys.

00:50:18.000 I appreciate it.

00:50:19.000 Thank you very much to The Fleshlight.

00:50:20.000 Go to JoeRogan.net, click on the link for The Fleshlight, enter in the codename Rogan.

00:50:23.000 Is this the first show that you've ever been on sponsored by The Fleshlight?

00:50:26.000 Yes.

00:50:27.000 Yes.

00:50:27.000 What is the flesh like?

00:50:29.000 Do I get one?

00:50:30.000 Yes, for sure.

00:50:30.000 I'll hook you up.

00:50:31.000 We're trying to combine seriousness, legitimate thinking, and completely ridiculous bullshit all together in one soup to let people know. 0.99

00:50:39.000 Enjoy it. 1.00

00:50:40.000 Enjoy it, bitches. 1.00

00:50:41.000 It ain't gonna last. 0.99

00:50:42.000 Thank you very much, Mr. Pinchback.

00:50:44.000 On Saturday, the August...

00:50:47.000 September, rather.

00:50:49.000 The...

00:50:50.000 10th?

00:50:51.000 Yeah.

00:50:52.000 Saturday's the 10th.

00:50:53.000 Oh, it's the 10th.

00:50:53.000 Yeah, Saturday the 10th, Tim Ferriss is coming by, and the 11th is Anthony Bourdain.

00:50:58.000 Alright, thank you very much. 0.95

00:50:59.000 Love you, bitches, and big kiss. 1.00

00:51:01.000 Thank you. 1.00

00:51:01.000 Bye-bye. 1.00

The Joe Rogan Experience - September 08, 2011

Joe Rogan Experience #136 - Daniel Pinchbeck (Part 3)

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