The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1361 - Cmdr. David Fravor & Jeremy Corbell

00:00:02.000 And here we go.

00:00:04.000 First of all, gentlemen, thanks for being here.

00:00:06.000 Jeremy, thanks for coming back again.

00:00:08.000 Thanks, Joe.

00:00:09.000 And thanks to you, sir.

00:00:11.000 It's very exciting to be here.

00:00:13.000 Very exciting for me to be here to be able to talk to you about your story.

00:00:17.000 Thank you.

00:00:17.000 I'm glad to be here.

00:00:19.000 David, tell everybody who you are and tell everybody your background, please.

00:00:24.000 Okay, my name is David Fravor.

00:00:26.000 I served 24 years in the military.

00:00:28.000 Enlisted Marine for a couple years.

00:00:30.000 They sent me to the Naval Academy.

00:00:32.000 Then I flew for 18 years for the Navy.

00:00:36.000 Literally flew A6s, Hornets, and then Super Hornets.

00:00:40.000 Had every qualification you could get in the airplane, everything, even the stuff they're not doing anymore.

00:00:45.000 So I had NVG, high, low, went to Top Gun, and at the time of the incident that we're going to talk about, I was a commanding officer of VFA-41, the Black Aces.

00:00:56.000 I've gone through a journey with this whole UFO stuff, from being a full-on true believer, to being incredibly skeptical, to trying to be open-minded, to...

00:01:07.000 Being more of a believer now than I think I've ever been before.

00:01:11.000 And one of the things that I've always said is the people that I believe, there's a lot of loony people out there, but the people that I put my trust in are high-level military people like yourself.

00:01:21.000 So when I hear someone like you who has a story that defies logic or defies conventional understanding of how aircrafts work, that's when I sit back and I go, okay.

00:01:36.000 This is a different thing.

00:01:37.000 Because, you know, there's always people that are telling you they're psychic or they sense things or they're in communication with Bigfoot.

00:01:45.000 There's always loony people out there.

00:01:47.000 But when someone is in the military, someone is trained to fly, I mean, how expensive are those jets?

00:01:54.000 When we had about $70 million a piece. 1.00

00:01:56.000 Yeah, they don't give those to morons. 1.00

00:01:59.000 Typically not. 1.00

00:02:00.000 Some people in my family would probably argue that point, but hey, better lucky than good.

00:02:05.000 It just seems to me that this is, for rational people that want to look at this whole UFO phenomenon objectively, you're the type of person that I want to talk to.

00:02:17.000 So I was very excited to have you in here.

00:02:20.000 So, what year was your incident?

00:02:23.000 And you have a very, very famous incident that's corroborated by actual evidence, which is one of the rare ones.

00:02:29.000 What year was it, and where did it take place?

00:02:33.000 So it was 2004, November 14th.

00:02:37.000 It's really, if you draw San Diego to Ensenada, Mexico, we're about 60 miles off the coast in between the two.

00:02:43.000 We're doing workups, so when we get ready to deploy, this was for the 2005 deployment.

00:02:49.000 We were going at sea for November and December of 2004. So we had been out.

00:02:53.000 I had just taken over the squadron mid-October, so I had been the CO for a month.

00:02:58.000 So we go out and we're putting the battle group pieces together.

00:03:01.000 So it's not just the air wing, but we're on the carrier.

00:03:05.000 We've got the cruiser.

00:03:06.000 We've got all the support ships out there.

00:03:08.000 And we're going to integrate all the defenses and train as one unit.

00:03:11.000 So the exercise that we're going to do is an air defense exercise where there's good guys, bad guys.

00:03:17.000 They're all from internal, from the air wing.

00:03:19.000 So the bad guys today are going to be the Marines, VMFA-232, the Red Devils.

00:03:24.000 So they're going to launch, and they're going to go about 100 miles south of the ship, and we're the good guys, and we call it a 2v2, so it's two of us against two of them.

00:03:31.000 We're going to work with the USS Princeton, which is going to be the controller, and they're going to control the blue forces, and then the red guys are going to give us a presentation that, you know, they're going to try and intercept so we can stop them from getting up towards the carrier.

00:03:43.000 So that's kind of the training set that we're all good.

00:03:45.000 So the Marines take off first, and they start heading to the south.

00:03:48.000 Now, we have no idea that for two weeks, the two weeks we've been at sea, they've been tracking these things coming out of the sky.

00:03:55.000 And when I talk to the Princeton controller, he's like up to about a dozen of them.

00:03:58.000 They would come down from above 80,000 feet.

00:04:01.000 They'd drop down to about 20,000 feet.

00:04:03.000 They'd hang out and then they'd go straight back up after about three or four hours.

00:04:06.000 Now, when you say they've been tracking them, who specifically?

00:04:08.000 This is the USS. The Princeton is tracking them.

00:04:10.000 They saw them on the Nimitz radar and the E-2 could see them.

00:04:14.000 So, because they're out there, you know, that radar is on all the time.

00:04:18.000 And the SPY-1 system on an Aegis cruiser is, you know, the state is probably one of the most sophisticated systems in the world.

00:04:24.000 So typically when something like this happens and there is some unexplained phenomenon, what do they do?

00:04:30.000 In this case, if we were in a threat environment, they would tell us.

00:04:34.000 But if we're off the coast of San Diego, it doesn't come to the air wing.

00:04:37.000 So we have no idea that these things are out there at all.

00:04:39.000 So they observe these things and they never bother telling any of you guys?

00:04:44.000 That's correct.

00:04:45.000 So they just knew that these things had been visiting this area?

00:04:49.000 Yes.

00:04:49.000 But they just allowed this training exercise to take place anyway.

00:04:52.000 Yeah.

00:04:53.000 Talking to them, the previous, for the two weeks, they would show up, but it was when we weren't flying.

00:04:57.000 So the typical carrier schedule is, you know, for us, it was about noon to midnight.

00:05:01.000 It's a 12-hour day.

00:05:03.000 There's reasons for that.

00:05:04.000 It can go a lot longer.

00:05:05.000 But for training, we just do the 12-hour day thing.

00:05:08.000 And it's cyclic ops, so you got guys taking off and landing periodically.

00:05:11.000 So we were on one of the first goes.

00:05:13.000 You know, it's, you know, noon, one o'clock, somewhere around there.

00:05:16.000 And we take off.

00:05:17.000 The Marines take off first.

00:05:18.000 And my buddy Cheeks, who's the CO of the Marine Squadron, he was leading the Red Air.

00:05:23.000 When he launched off the carrier first, they called him up and said, hey, what do you got on board?

00:05:26.000 Well, the small, the original Legacy F-18s don't have as much gas as the Super Hornets.

00:05:31.000 The Super Hornet's about 30% bigger.

00:05:32.000 So they start talking to him about fuel and based on how long we're going to be airborne and everything else, they go, hey, why don't you just go ahead and proceed to your cap point because we had just taken off.

00:05:42.000 And that's when the controller had come up and said, hey – I forget our cost.

00:05:46.000 It's probably like dealer is usually what we went.

00:05:47.000 So it would be like dealer 1-1.

00:05:50.000 This is Princeton Control.

00:05:52.000 What do you got?

00:05:53.000 Say your loadout.

00:05:54.000 I kind of chuckled.

00:05:55.000 He said – I said, well, I got a CADM-9, which is – it's basically just a blue metal tube with a seeker head for an AIM-9 IR missile.

00:06:03.000 It's a training.

00:06:03.000 It doesn't come off the airplane.

00:06:04.000 You can beat it with a sledgehammer.

00:06:05.000 That's the only way you're going to get it off or you got to unlock the lugs with a key.

00:06:09.000 So I'm like kind of chuckling.

00:06:11.000 He goes, well, hey, we're going to cancel the training.

00:06:13.000 So we're like, okay.

00:06:14.000 He says, we got real world vector and they're going to send us out to the west.

00:06:18.000 So picture if it's, you know, if you've got a clock, the Nimitz is in the middle.

00:06:23.000 We're a little bit south of that, about 40 miles south.

00:06:26.000 And then the Marines are about 100 miles south of the ship, about 60 miles between the two of us.

00:06:31.000 So as this is all happening, my wingman is joining up, and these are F-18F, so there's two people in each jet.

00:06:37.000 So it's me and my WIZO, which is a weapon systems operator, and I've got the other pilot and the weapon systems operator in the other jet.

00:06:44.000 So they tell us all this, hey, we're going to real-world vector, and they send us out 270, about 60 miles away from where we're going.

00:06:49.000 So now we're going out even further out to sea.

00:06:52.000 We have no idea what we're intercepting.

00:06:54.000 And this is when the controller starts talking to us.

00:06:56.000 He says, hey, sir, we've seen these objects.

00:06:58.000 They've been, for two weeks, they've been coming down.

00:07:01.000 And he's given us the whole story.

00:07:02.000 He says, we need you to go investigate.

00:07:04.000 We want to know what these are.

00:07:06.000 But they're asking you to investigate in a jet that's unarmed.

00:07:09.000 That's correct.

00:07:09.000 Okay.

00:07:10.000 Yeah, we have no, and there's reasons for that, that we don't fly.

00:07:13.000 We typically don't fly with live ordinance unless we're actually going into like a combat zone or Or we're on a training range and we're going to shoot something.

00:07:20.000 And the reason is you can go through history of the Navy or Air Force.

00:07:23.000 If you put live missiles on airplanes and then you start doing training where you're squeezing the trigger, someone always messes the switchology up and someone gets shot down.

00:07:30.000 It's happened multiple times.

00:07:32.000 So we don't do it.

00:07:34.000 You know, there's times that we do, but it's rare.

00:07:36.000 So we start flying out to the west.

00:07:38.000 Now, I want you to think because the other pilot has a – when you talk to – it's out there.

00:07:42.000 It was a female.

00:07:43.000 When you talk to her, it's – here's the – kind of goes through the mindset of, hey, we're off the coast of Mexico, real-world vector.

00:07:52.000 We have no idea what we're going to look at.

00:07:54.000 Probably a drug runner because you get the drug runners coming up the coast.

00:07:58.000 So we're like, okay.

00:08:00.000 So we drive out and they're calling down ranges.

00:08:02.000 So they're telling us, hey, it's 270 at 30 miles at 20,000 feet.

00:08:06.000 And it's, you know, and then you just count down the ranges.

00:08:08.000 And we're talking back and forth the whole time.

00:08:10.000 So they got to a point where they say, hey, merge plot, which means radars have resolution cells, you know, range and azimuth of what the radar can actually see.

00:08:20.000 Once you're inside that box, you can't tell the difference between me and the object I'm going at.

00:08:26.000 We're just become one big blob.

00:08:28.000 Hmm.

00:08:29.000 So they call merge plot and so the other jet is on my left-hand side and I'm going to go to a clock code to make it simple.

00:08:36.000 So the object we're going to end up looking for is right in the middle of the clock and we are at the 6 o'clock position and my wingman is off to my left side.

00:08:44.000 So she's further down with her wizzo. 0.97

00:08:48.000 So as we're looking around, we look to the right and there's a – yesterday was a perfect example out here.

00:08:55.000 The water is perfectly calm, no white caps.

00:08:58.000 I mean it's literally a perfect San Diego, California day.

00:09:01.000 And we see whitewater, something like if you see a seamount rock underwater when you're standing on the shore and the waves are breaking over and you're like, what is that?

00:09:09.000 It's usually because there's a rock under the water.

00:09:11.000 So it looks like that, but it's about the size of a 737. It actually kind of has a shape of like a cross, and it's pointing to the east.

00:09:18.000 So you've got the long part going east-west, and you've got a couple of things going north and south.

00:09:23.000 So as we're looking at it, because that kind of draws our eyes, we're like, oh, that's kind of odd.

00:09:26.000 We look down and the wizzo in the other airplane comes up and says, hey, Skipper, do you?

00:09:32.000 And that's about what he gets out of his mouth.

00:09:34.000 And I'm kind of looking at the same thing.

00:09:35.000 I go, dude, do you see that?

00:09:36.000 What is that thing?

00:09:37.000 And what we see is this white tic-tac-looking object just above the surface of the water.

00:09:43.000 It's pointing north-south and it's going north-south, east-west.

00:09:46.000 It's just radically moving forward, back, left, right, at will.

00:09:49.000 And it's moving around the disturbance, the whitewater that we see.

00:09:53.000 How big is this thing?

00:09:55.000 Over time, it's about 40 feet long.

00:09:57.000 And the way I estimate that is – I mean I got a lot of time fighting other airplanes.

00:10:00.000 So it's about the size of a Hornet, fuselage.

00:10:02.000 So that's why I say 40 feet.

00:10:04.000 This thing is just going left.

00:10:05.000 So the first thing you see when you look down, you go – and this is with our eyes.

00:10:09.000 It's not sensors, right?

00:10:10.000 So we're looking down at this thing and first thing you think is helicopter, right?

00:10:14.000 Helicopters typically stay below 200 feet when we're out there and they're just driving around.

00:10:17.000 We're pretty far away from the ship for a helicopter for one of ours.

00:10:21.000 So what is it?

00:10:22.000 So the first thing you look for is rotor wash.

00:10:23.000 If you've watched any TV show that starts kicking the water up, you can see that.

00:10:27.000 It's really easy to see from the air.

00:10:28.000 So we're like, no rotor wash.

00:10:31.000 Matter of fact, I don't see any rotors.

00:10:33.000 I don't see any tail rotor.

00:10:34.000 I don't see any – the main rotors.

00:10:36.000 We're like, that's kind of weird.

00:10:38.000 So as we're driving around, we're looking at this thing.

00:10:40.000 We get to about the 9 o'clock position.

00:10:42.000 How far away are you from this thing?

00:10:44.000 I'm at 20,000 feet and it's right down on the surface, right off our right side.

00:10:47.000 So I'm probably maybe a couple miles lateral and 20,000 feet and we're just watching it move around.

00:10:53.000 So it's very small in your eyes?

00:10:56.000 Not overly small.

00:10:57.000 I mean, an airplane down that low, it's 40 feet.

00:10:59.000 You can see pretty well.

00:11:00.000 It was pretty clear.

00:11:03.000 So I'm like, okay.

00:11:04.000 So I said, I'm going to go check it out.

00:11:05.000 That's what we're trained to do.

00:11:06.000 The other pilot says, hey, I'm going to stay up here.

00:11:09.000 And I'm like, that's perfect.

00:11:10.000 So now we'll get some separation.

00:11:11.000 We'll get it from different views.

00:11:13.000 And the other airplane, I kind of have a God's eye view of everything that's going on as I go down and check this thing out.

00:11:17.000 So I start driving around and it's still doing its forward, back, left, right.

00:11:21.000 It's still pointing north-south.

00:11:24.000 We get to about the 12 o'clock position.

00:11:25.000 I'm just in a nice, easy descent.

00:11:26.000 A reason, you know, because I've been asked, could you go more aggressive?

00:11:30.000 You can, but when you're out over water, the water looks the same at 20,000 feet as it does at 2,000 feet.

00:11:35.000 You don't, you know, so you can easily put yourself in a non-recoverable position if you're not paying attention and you go into the water.

00:11:42.000 So I got this nice, easy descent.

00:11:43.000 I get to about 12 o'clock and as I'm coming down, you know, I could guess probably about, you know, 18,000 feet now, a couple thousand feet below the other airplane.

00:11:51.000 The tic-tac just kind of rapidly goes boop and turns.

00:11:55.000 So now it's kind of pointing east-west and now it mirrors us.

00:11:57.000 So it's above the surface.

00:11:59.000 We're up high.

00:12:00.000 We're coming down.

00:12:00.000 It starts coming up.

00:12:03.000 I'm like, well, this is getting interesting.

00:12:05.000 So we kind of drive all the way around a circle.

00:12:07.000 I'm descending.

00:12:08.000 It's coming up.

00:12:08.000 And I get over to about the 8 o'clock position on the clock.

00:12:11.000 And it's over at about the 2 o'clock position.

00:12:14.000 Well, the quickest way, as we know as kids, to get someone, you know, you can keep going around the circle.

00:12:18.000 Nothing's going to happen.

00:12:18.000 You cut across the circle.

00:12:20.000 So I'm about, I don't know, probably 2,000 to 3,000 feet above it, and I just kind of drop my nose aggressively, and I cut across the circle, and it's coming this way.

00:12:29.000 Because I'm trying to fly to where it's going to be because I want to join on it.

00:12:32.000 I want to see how close I can get to it.

00:12:34.000 And as I'm pulling up, it's kind of starting to cross my nose and it starts to accelerate.

00:12:38.000 And within about less than a second, as I start to pull nose onto it and it crosses right in front of me, it just goes poof and it's gone.

00:12:47.000 So I call the other airplane and I said, hey, do you guys see that thing?

00:12:51.000 And they're like, sir, it's gone.

00:12:53.000 We don't see it at all.

00:12:55.000 So I'm like, okay, that's kind of weird.

00:12:58.000 So we don't see it.

00:12:59.000 We're looking.

00:13:00.000 At the same time, I say, hey, let's turn around and let's go back to see what was in the water.

00:13:04.000 You know, was there something there?

00:13:06.000 So we turn around.

00:13:06.000 We're right there.

00:13:07.000 We haven't gone anywhere.

00:13:08.000 It's gone.

00:13:09.000 Water's perfectly...

00:13:10.000 There's no white water, nothing.

00:13:11.000 It's just blue.

00:13:13.000 We're like, okay.

00:13:14.000 So we turn back around.

00:13:16.000 Now we're heading back out towards the east.

00:13:17.000 And I tell the controller, I said, well...

00:13:20.000 I said – I first said I'm kind of weirded out and I told my backseater that.

00:13:26.000 We start heading back and the controller on the Princeton comes at me and says, sir, you're not going to believe this but that thing is back at your cap point.

00:13:32.000 That was our original point where we were going to hold 40 miles south of the ship.

00:13:35.000 So this thing has went from wherever we were at to about 60 miles in maybe 30, 40 seconds.

00:13:44.000 It's already over there.

00:13:45.000 And it just – and they didn't track it.

00:13:47.000 It just appeared.

00:13:48.000 He just shows back up on the radar and they go, it's here.

00:13:51.000 So we're like, okay.

00:13:53.000 So we fly back.

00:13:54.000 We don't see it.

00:13:55.000 We don't see it on our radar.

00:13:57.000 We don't see it on any of our sensors.

00:13:59.000 We do like two runs and we come back to the ship and land.

00:14:02.000 So as we're in our – we call it the PR shop.

00:14:05.000 We're taking off our flight gear.

00:14:06.000 One of my crews is getting ready to go out and I think they were going to be on a tanker mission but they had a targeting pod on board.

00:14:13.000 So they launch off and we're telling them about this before and the backseater, Chad, says he's really – he's going to find this thing.

00:14:22.000 So he tells the pilot, hey, we're going to find this thing.

00:14:24.000 So they're just out driving around and in the backseat of a Super Hornet, there's no stick but there's side stick controllers and they're to control the sensors because that's what the weapon systems guys do.

00:14:35.000 And they can change displays really fast by just hitting a button and it will flip from the radar to the targeting pod.

00:14:41.000 And the way the system actually works is when you see something on the radar and you designate it as your primary target, all the other sensors will look at that point.

00:14:49.000 So everything is kind of synced together.

00:14:52.000 So he picks up a hit on his radar and he goes to lock it up because I've watched all the tapes.

00:14:57.000 He goes to lock it up and immediately the radar can tell.

00:15:00.000 It gets signals back that it's being jammed.

00:15:03.000 And technically jamming is an act of war.

00:15:05.000 It starts jamming the radar.

00:15:07.000 It goes into a jam extrapolate.

00:15:08.000 A bunch of stuff happens on the scope.

00:15:10.000 Well, he's smart enough to castle to his targeting pod.

00:15:13.000 And he takes a passive track.

00:15:15.000 And that's the video that you see of the Tic Tac where it's just sitting in the middle of the screen real quiet.

00:15:20.000 So he does that and he goes through it.

00:15:22.000 If you watched the video, if we had it, I'd go through it with you.

00:15:24.000 But they go through all the different modes.

00:15:26.000 So he goes, it's an IR and an EO. EO is TV. It's a black and white TV camera.

00:15:29.000 We can get the video, right, online?

00:15:33.000 Let's get the video, Jamie.

00:15:34.000 We can't show it to anybody.

00:15:37.000 We can't show it on YouTube, but you can see it, and people will be able to go to it.

00:15:43.000 You know what we'll do?

00:15:44.000 Go to the video, and we'll tell people when we're starting, and we'll tell people what the title of the video that you get to is, and they can sync it up themselves if they're watching it.

00:15:53.000 It's publicly owned.

00:15:55.000 It's American government.

00:15:57.000 So it is actually something in the public domain.

00:16:00.000 So you think we could play it on YouTube and not get polled?

00:16:02.000 Yeah.

00:16:03.000 A hundred percent.

00:16:03.000 You think so, Jamie?

00:16:04.000 It's a government.

00:16:06.000 I would say, yes, we should be able to.

00:16:08.000 But sometimes those things get messy.

00:16:10.000 Let's take a chance.

00:16:11.000 Let's take a chance with this one.

00:16:13.000 I know if you go on a New York Times article, there's a link to it.

00:16:16.000 It's a Pentagon release.

00:16:17.000 YouTube is...

00:16:19.000 We're crazy with copyright stuff, and we've always been like two steps away from getting pulled off of YouTube completely.

00:16:25.000 It's a real disaster.

00:16:27.000 I understand, from their perspective, there's a lot of legal issues they have to deal with, but...

00:16:32.000 I have it on a private server I could maybe send Gmail.

00:16:35.000 The issue, I believe, though, is the actual copyright of the video itself.

00:16:39.000 Oh, it's just a Pentagon release video.

00:16:40.000 Pentagon release public domain.

00:16:41.000 And the Pentagon's going to come after us.

00:16:43.000 I don't think so.

00:16:44.000 I don't think so either.

00:16:46.000 Did you find it?

00:16:47.000 I want to find a good version of the video that doesn't have somebody else's copyright.

00:16:51.000 Jeremy, do you know?

00:16:51.000 Yeah, I've got an un-watermarked version.

00:16:53.000 Let me just look it up.

00:16:54.000 Jeremy will get it to us.

00:16:56.000 I have to figure out how to send it to you right here.

00:16:58.000 Give me a second.

00:16:59.000 Do you have airdrop?

00:17:01.000 Could you airdrop it?

00:17:02.000 Yeah, but I got it on a private page that can send Jamie.

00:17:06.000 Oh, yeah.

00:17:07.000 Okay.

00:17:07.000 Do you have Jamie's...

00:17:09.000 Info?

00:17:10.000 No.

00:17:10.000 I'll figure it out.

00:17:13.000 Or you can send it to me and I'll send it to him.

00:17:14.000 Okay.

00:17:14.000 That's pretty easy.

00:17:17.000 Sorry to disrupt the momentum.

00:17:19.000 No, you're good.

00:17:20.000 But I think it's probably important to be able to have the video itself so you can just talk about it.

00:17:29.000 And we're about to yank it up here.

00:17:33.000 Okay, Jamie wrote it down for you.

00:17:35.000 There you go.

00:17:35.000 Give me a second to get it out.

00:17:36.000 Okay.

00:17:37.000 And for people who don't know, Jeremy also produced Bob Lazar, Area 51, and Flying Saucers.

00:17:44.000 And he was in here when we had Bob Lazar in, talk about Bob's experience.

00:17:49.000 And Jesus, if that wasn't a game changer for me and for a lot of other people.

00:17:55.000 This is a subject that it's so easy to mock.

00:17:58.000 You know, this is why I think it's so important that we talk to people like you.

00:18:03.000 Because...

00:18:04.000 Like I said, just your average everyday UFO crackpot.

00:18:08.000 They believe everything and anything.

00:18:10.000 Have you ever had any UFO experiences before this?

00:18:15.000 No, the irony, and I tell this story, my mother-in-law, she'll be listening.

00:18:21.000 She literally, every time I would go home, she would ask me, hey, did you see UFO? Did you see UFO? And I'd be like, no.

00:18:26.000 When I first started dating my wife, she was a big, like, National Enquirer. 0.98

00:18:29.000 She had all the, you know, supermarket tabloids, and I would always just feed her crap for it. 0.94

00:18:34.000 So this happens, and, you know, I never say a word.

00:18:39.000 So my friends all knew it was a great story over beers because they'd go, hey, what's the coolest thing you ever saw flying?

00:18:43.000 I go, I chased a UFO. And they go, get out of here.

00:18:45.000 I go, no, seriously.

00:18:45.000 And I tell them the story and they're like, dude.

00:18:47.000 I go, yeah.

00:18:49.000 So I go home and I got asked by Lou Elizondo to do the New York Times article, which – As like anything else, I always say no.

00:18:57.000 Like, it took a bunch of times to get me on your show.

00:18:59.000 Jeremy kept asking, asking, asking, and it was...

00:19:01.000 Thank you, Jeremy.

00:19:03.000 You got to thank my contractor's wife, Angel, who...

00:19:05.000 We were at a party drinking, and she goes, you got to do Rogan.

00:19:07.000 I go, what?

00:19:08.000 She goes, it's the biggest podcast on the planet.

00:19:10.000 She goes, you got to do it.

00:19:11.000 And I go, all right, I'm going to do it.

00:19:12.000 Just for you, I'm going to do this show.

00:19:14.000 Shout out to Angel. 0.99

00:19:15.000 Yeah, from New Hampshire.

00:19:16.000 So...

00:19:18.000 So my mother-in-law were sitting there, and I know the New York Times article is going to come out.

00:19:22.000 And so I was at Thanksgiving in 2017. So it was Thanksgiving in 2017. And everyone had kind of left the house.

00:19:30.000 So it's just my wife and my in-laws, a couple of us sitting in the kitchen.

00:19:33.000 And I said, hey, I got to tell you guys this.

00:19:35.000 They said, what?

00:19:35.000 I said, there's going to be this article comes out in the New York Times, and I'm in it.

00:19:39.000 And they're like, yeah.

00:19:40.000 I go, well, I chased a UFO. My mother-in-law is like, ha-ha!

00:19:45.000 She looks at my father-in-law.

00:19:46.000 He's rolling his eyes, looking at me like, are you serious?

00:19:48.000 And I go, yeah, yeah.

00:19:50.000 And she's like, you never told us.

00:19:52.000 I go, I never really told anyone.

00:19:53.000 I mean, my wife and kids knew the event happened, but they didn't have all the details because it was just one of those things I just didn't get into.

00:19:59.000 Is it classified?

00:20:00.000 No.

00:20:01.000 Was it at any point in time?

00:20:02.000 No, there's a lot of rumors out there that, oh, it was classified and the ship got locked down.

00:20:06.000 No, it wasn't.

00:20:07.000 It was – we were never – men in suits did not show up.

00:20:12.000 No one told us not to talk about it.

00:20:14.000 And this is because there's a lot of other people saying other things.

00:20:17.000 And I said, let's look at it.

00:20:18.000 Here's the context.

00:20:19.000 So in the battle group, you've got the admiral, you've got the captain of the ship, the captain of the Princeton, and then you've got the other COs.

00:20:28.000 So position-wise, I'm probably, as a CEO of a squadron, in the top 20 out of 6,000.

00:20:36.000 And no one came to talk to me.

00:20:37.000 No one came to take my tapes.

00:20:39.000 No one showed up in a suit.

00:20:41.000 No one told me not to talk.

00:20:42.000 No one talked to any of my air crew that were involved in this.

00:20:44.000 There were six people total involved, the two that shot the video and the four of us that looked at it for five minutes with our eyes.

00:20:50.000 No one – nothing.

00:20:51.000 It just – and I can get into how – there's a report that George Knapp got released.

00:20:58.000 It's a – I call it the unofficial official report.

00:21:02.000 And I had met someone and I'm like, hey – Can you find anything out?

00:21:07.000 I had this incident.

00:21:07.000 Normally you tell people this.

00:21:09.000 They look at you like, dude, what are you smoking?

00:21:12.000 I'm like, no, no, I'm good.

00:21:14.000 I'm tested.

00:21:15.000 And they go – and they said, well, let me see what I can do.

00:21:19.000 And I had got a call.

00:21:21.000 I was working – I was doing some aerospace work and I had gotten a call on my cell phone from a guy.

00:21:26.000 And he said, hey, I want to investigate your incident.

00:21:30.000 And I go, okay.

00:21:32.000 Okay.

00:21:33.000 So he did.

00:21:33.000 He investigated the incident, and it was very, very thorough.

00:21:36.000 I mean, if you've read that, it's about 10 pages long.

00:21:39.000 And he, I mean, he tracked down everybody.

00:21:41.000 He tracked down all the people that were, the air crew that were involved.

00:21:44.000 He talked to, he tracked down the admiral.

00:21:46.000 He talked, I mean, it was a pretty thorough report.

00:21:49.000 And I didn't think anything of it, you know, because, you know, the people worded it's out there, so they want to do FOIA, but it was never released in a FOIA request.

00:21:56.000 I actually had the Navy call me I'd been out of the Navy for like six years.

00:22:00.000 Let's explain to people that means Freedom of Information Act.

00:22:03.000 So I got called by a public affairs person from the Navy and said, hey, is this Commander Fravor?

00:22:09.000 I said, yeah.

00:22:10.000 They said, hey, do you know of any documentation on your UFO incident off the Nimitz?

00:22:16.000 And I said, official.

00:22:18.000 And she said, yeah.

00:22:19.000 I said, no, because I knew the report existed, but to me it was an unofficial because I didn't know where it went.

00:22:24.000 And I had a copy of it.

00:22:26.000 But because it wasn't official, well then, years later, I find out that the guy who actually did the report was part of the ATIP team.

00:22:32.000 And I was talking to Lou Elizondo, who runs that program.

00:22:35.000 And Lou showed me the documentation of the original.

00:22:37.000 I think it was like 13 people that were part of ATIP and they were fully exempt.

00:22:41.000 And I'm like, well, that's kind of – well, hey, I know that guy.

00:22:44.000 He's the guy that did the report, which is why it never ever came out until George got his hands on it.

00:22:49.000 How is something Freedom of Information Act exempt?

00:22:54.000 Obviously DOD has the ability – because I'm not a conspiracy theory person at all.

00:22:59.000 I mean I'll just tell you that.

00:23:00.000 I think there's reasons that the government doesn't tell the public everything and I don't speak for the government.

00:23:05.000 But I think there's a good reason for that, that not everything needs to go out to the public.

00:23:09.000 But most of it does and they just – what they do is they put a clause on, hey, for this program or whatever we're doing, which would have been an ATEP program, the work that they do and what they find is not – it's not releasable through Freedom Information Act.

00:23:20.000 There's probably other avenues to get that.

00:23:23.000 And then you go, well, what really is freedom of information?

00:23:25.000 Because I got into this on a – I was talking to someone who's a conspiracy theorist and they said, well, so-and-so wrote and they're not getting any information on your event.

00:23:31.000 I said, so what are they going to do?

00:23:33.000 They're going to call up.

00:23:34.000 You're going to put in your request for freedom of information.

00:23:36.000 You go, here's what I want.

00:23:37.000 It goes to some poor guy at the Pentagon who's like, I have no idea what this is.

00:23:41.000 And he searches around.

00:23:41.000 He doesn't find anything.

00:23:42.000 He looks at his bud and I get it all for you.

00:23:44.000 I go, hey, Joe, you got anything on the Nimitz incident?

00:23:45.000 And you go, nope.

00:23:47.000 I go, okay, well, I didn't find anything.

00:23:49.000 I looked.

00:23:50.000 I did my due diligence, but I'm not going to spend the next six months of my life doing your research project for you.

00:23:55.000 So you get nothing and then you assume the government is covering up when the government really isn't.

00:23:58.000 They just – the guys doing the research doesn't know where it's at or doesn't have access to it.

00:24:02.000 Makes sense.

00:24:04.000 Jamie, we have the video?

00:24:05.000 Okay.

00:24:06.000 Here we go.

00:24:07.000 Now, explain what are we seeing and why are we seeing it in this particular shade?

00:24:12.000 Okay, so we'll just kind of go around.

00:24:13.000 So if you look at the OPRs operate on the top left corner.

00:24:18.000 NAR is narrow field of view, which is zoomed in.

00:24:23.000 IR at the top middle, it means it's in infrared mode.

00:24:26.000 So instead of seeing color, you're seeing temperature variations.

00:24:29.000 And these things are extremely sensitive to when, like, tenths of degrees, they will tell you the difference.

00:24:34.000 So it'll go from black to white.

00:24:36.000 So in this case, white is hot.

00:24:38.000 So if you look down on the bottom left corner, it says WHT. That's white. 0.53

00:24:43.000 It means white is hot.

00:24:44.000 So the object that you're looking at is hotter than the sky around it.

00:24:47.000 But what you also notice is there's no plumes.

00:24:49.000 Now, if you're looking at an airplane, when you get closer, you'll actually see the exhaust coming out and there will be a really glowing plume.

00:24:54.000 That's important as we look at the video.

00:24:56.000 And then most of the stuff on here you really don't need to know.

00:24:58.000 What you can look at is the bottom right corner that says 19,990 and a B. That's the altitude.

00:25:04.000 And if you look up in the little words where it says HDG and then BALT, it's autopilot.

00:25:10.000 So it's on altitude hold.

00:25:12.000 It's just flying for that.

00:25:14.000 So you can go ahead and play the video.

00:25:18.000 And so those two bars next to the white object, that's a passive track.

00:25:22.000 So what he's done is he's commanded the FLIR to track that.

00:25:25.000 So what the system does is it uses – it's actually tracking.

00:25:28.000 It can track pixels and it's just basically blocked those hot pixels, those white pixels from the black ones.

00:25:34.000 And you're going to see now – pause it real quick.

00:25:36.000 So over the top, see it went to white screen with the black object.

00:25:39.000 This is a black and white TV mode.

00:25:41.000 And if you look at the top, it says TV. So narrow in TV mode is actually – you can get closer than narrow in IR. It's literally – narrow in IR is about medium in TV mode.

00:25:51.000 So you can get closer with the TV mode.

00:25:53.000 So as you look at it now, in this case, you would actually start to see stuff going on.

00:25:58.000 And even in TV mode because you get exhaust, you know, the black exhaust that comes out, you'll usually be able to see kind of some of that coming out of the back and you don't see anything.

00:26:05.000 This thing is just sitting there.

00:26:06.000 And if you look at the top where it says three right, that's the pod is looking three degrees right at the nose of the airplane, right?

00:26:13.000 So he's just flying along the bottom numbers.

00:26:15.000 Don't worry, those are time.

00:26:17.000 So it's 4156. So go ahead and hit play.

00:26:21.000 And what he's doing is he's going – Chad's going through all the different modes because he's like, oh, I got it.

00:26:26.000 And he's going to try and see the best video that he can get.

00:26:29.000 Now, there's rumors that this video is like 10 minutes long.

00:26:31.000 Now, what you're looking at is the entire video.

00:26:33.000 Now, notice where it says 99.9.

00:26:35.000 So hit pause real quick.

00:26:37.000 What that means is while he's got the pod, the targeting pod, because that's his primary sensor right now, the radar is still trying to look at this object and trying to range it.

00:26:44.000 And the radar can't get ranging on it.

00:26:46.000 So the object is doing something to say, I'm not giving you back, because it's just a Doppler radar, just like a police radar is a Doppler.

00:26:53.000 It's trying to get a ranging on you, and it can't do it.

00:26:56.000 So when it says 99.9, the radar cannot see this object right now.

00:27:00.000 It's not allowing it to get ranging.

00:27:02.000 And I think that's super important, Dave, the way he explained it to me.

00:27:05.000 Active jamming compared to passive jamming.

00:27:07.000 This is a technology that is actively jamming this system.

00:27:11.000 Rather than something like stealth aircraft, which is the shape and the texture of the...

00:27:16.000 Yeah, it's...

00:27:17.000 Because I wouldn't think stealth is invisible.

00:27:20.000 It's not.

00:27:20.000 It's just a technology to...

00:27:23.000 To basically make it harder for radars to see you.

00:27:26.000 And that's the whole thing.

00:27:27.000 If you look at airplanes that are nose-on are harder to see than airplanes at the sides.

00:27:33.000 Kind of like, think of a barn door.

00:27:35.000 If you're looking at the whole barn door, it's really easy.

00:27:37.000 See, if I turn the barn door sideways where it's really thin, it's going to be a lot harder for you to see it.

00:27:40.000 Got it.

00:27:41.000 So that's the easiest, most basic way to look at this.

00:27:43.000 So keep going.

00:27:45.000 You can play again.

00:27:45.000 And you can look.

00:27:46.000 The airplane is still sitting at 20,000 feet.

00:27:49.000 It's doing 250 knots.

00:27:51.000 He's going to go through different modes and try and lock it.

00:27:54.000 And it's just kind of sitting and all of a sudden, as the video goes on, I think it's a minute and a half long.

00:27:59.000 See, it's going to try and reacquire, it recenters the pod.

00:28:01.000 So it's slowly drifting to the left.

00:28:05.000 The Hornet is still going the same heading, just kind of hanging out.

00:28:08.000 And they're just filming this thing.

00:28:10.000 And then when they get close, it's going to zing off the left-hand side.

00:28:13.000 When you see it on a full – because you think digital, you'd be able to get a one-for-one copy.

00:28:18.000 Unlike when you copy your album to a cassette, you lose a little quality.

00:28:21.000 Well, you still do in digital world.

00:28:23.000 And off it goes to the left.

00:28:24.000 And that's pretty fast to leave that field of view.

00:28:28.000 We have big monitors that we look at these when they come back.

00:28:30.000 So we're looking at the original tapes.

00:28:31.000 Can I play the end of that again, please, Jamie?

00:28:34.000 So when it's taking off, when it just sort of leaves the field of view and takes off to the left, how fast is that going?

00:28:43.000 I would say pretty fast.

00:28:44.000 If we had ranging, you could obviously do the triangle and go, hey, because we know how big the field of view is.

00:28:49.000 But for something to leave the field of view that fast with the pod just staring is pretty fast.

00:28:54.000 I mean, it's like out of here.

00:28:56.000 Like nothing that we have?

00:28:58.000 No, because we can't – I don't care what airplane it is.

00:29:01.000 So let's just use the F-22 Raptor.

00:29:03.000 That's probably one of the – it's probably the best airplane in the world right now performance-wise.

00:29:09.000 It can't take off like that, especially if it's a hover.

00:29:12.000 I mean you're talking something that's just sitting in space in the wind and then it just all of a sudden accelerates.

00:29:17.000 Airplanes don't work that way.

00:29:18.000 And it's not leaving any exhaust plume?

00:29:20.000 No.

00:29:20.000 Notice there's none.

00:29:21.000 And when you go back to the – Even in the IR, you don't see.

00:29:25.000 Yeah, so there's IR zoomed in and there's no – you would see a plume if that was an airplane.

00:29:28.000 It's creepy how it takes off.

00:29:30.000 Yeah.

00:29:31.000 With active jamming, it's intelligently controlled.

00:29:34.000 There's no rotors.

00:29:35.000 There's no plumes.

00:29:36.000 There's no exhaust.

00:29:37.000 There's no tail fin.

00:29:38.000 There's no tail number.

00:29:40.000 This thing goes from a standstill, takes off.

00:29:43.000 It's a propulsion system we don't have in our inventory and no other nation does.

00:29:47.000 That's how it's understood by the government.

00:29:50.000 Now, if the fastest plane on Earth was trying to do that same maneuver, this system would be able to track it?

00:30:01.000 Yeah, it would stay with it until it got to the limits of the pod, you know, as far as looking to the left.

00:30:07.000 And, you know, the radar would see it.

00:30:09.000 I mean, when you get close enough, you're going to, you know, everything becomes visible because you get burned through with radar and how radars actually work.

00:30:18.000 This one is, you know, you tell me, but this was...

00:30:26.000 I mean, it's like when we saw it disappear when it flew in front of my nose.

00:30:30.000 I'm talking something, I'm within a half mile of it, looking at it.

00:30:33.000 And it gets in front of me and just disappears.

00:30:36.000 So take, we'll just go to something that everyone knows is fast.

00:30:38.000 Let's just say SR-71 that's doing Mach 3. You know, the visibility is 50 miles.

00:30:44.000 So even at 35 miles a minute, I'm going to be able to see this thing turn into a little dot as it goes off into the horizon for probably a minute.

00:30:53.000 The thing that we saw disappeared in a second.

00:30:56.000 Just gone.

00:30:57.000 And that's from two different angles.

00:30:58.000 Remember, the other airplane's 8,000 feet above me because we get close to it at about 12,000 feet.

00:31:02.000 So the other airplane's above me looking down, and when it disappeared, I said, do you guys see it?

00:31:06.000 And they said, no, it's gone.

00:31:08.000 It just literally was poof.

00:31:11.000 Now, when you came back and...

00:31:15.000 What do you do with this information?

00:31:17.000 Do you report it?

00:31:18.000 Do you talk to people about it?

00:31:20.000 So the typical process, anytime we fly, everything gets debriefed.

00:31:24.000 So because it was a two-seat airplane, usually the junior person in the jet goes down.

00:31:29.000 So I was the boss, so I wasn't going down there.

00:31:31.000 So we have a thing called Civic CVIC, which is the carrier intel center.

00:31:36.000 So they go down.

00:31:37.000 We always take our tapes because we record stuff when we're fighting.

00:31:40.000 They take it down, and it's really to exercise the system when we're in training so that when we actually get over to, in this case, we are going over to the Persian Gulf, anything that we do comes in and gets debriefed, and then it all gets sent off.

00:31:50.000 That's how you get the CNN video and all that.

00:31:52.000 So they go down and they debrief and have to tell, hey, we chased this object.

00:31:57.000 We don't know what it is. 0.99

00:31:59.000 And of course, everyone now is going to make jokes because we know we're going to catch shit because that's how the Navy works. 0.99

00:32:05.000 And I told him, I said, I remember telling the guy in my backseat, I said, dude, we're going to catch maximum shit for this. 0.99

00:32:12.000 And he goes, yes, sir. 0.98

00:32:13.000 I'll show you the comics.

00:32:14.000 I have them on my phone.

00:32:15.000 We do – the airplane comes out.

00:32:17.000 So we know it's going to come down.

00:32:19.000 So he goes in.

00:32:20.000 They debrief this.

00:32:21.000 Both crews go in and, of course, everyone at Intel thinks this is hilarious.

00:32:27.000 So the flight – Chad comes in with his tapes when he lands and here's the thing.

00:32:34.000 Oh, VFA-41.

00:32:35.000 Guys see any UFOs out there?

00:32:37.000 And he pulls out that tape and drops it on the counter.

00:32:40.000 He goes, yeah, it's on here. 1.00

00:32:41.000 So they're like, oh, shit. 0.98

00:32:43.000 So they copy it. 0.99

00:32:45.000 They play it and there's a big – it looks like a rack system.

00:32:47.000 They put the 8-mil in.

00:32:48.000 It gets copied to a hard drive.

00:32:50.000 And then they archive it.

00:32:52.000 So you go, okay.

00:32:53.000 So they got this video.

00:32:54.000 And then the ship – this spreads – if you have a rumor on the ship, 5,000 people are going to know about it within probably 30 minutes.

00:33:02.000 I mean it spreads that.

00:33:03.000 It's like a virus.

00:33:05.000 So the whole ship now knows that we chased this.

00:33:07.000 I guarantee the whole Princeton knew this stuff was going on.

00:33:09.000 And it goes all the way up.

00:33:10.000 The admiral knows about it.

00:33:12.000 The captain of the ship knew about it.

00:33:14.000 And then all the movies, because they play movies for us on the ship, and they run like a 12-hour loop.

00:33:19.000 So, of course, the movie selection is menu.

00:33:21.000 Men in Black, Men in Black 2, Signs, Independence Day.

00:33:27.000 And we know we're going to be on the airplane comic because there's always a comic. 0.98

00:33:30.000 So you do something stupid or like this, then you're going to be on the comic. 0.96

00:33:34.000 I'll show you the comics here in a little bit. 0.99

00:33:35.000 They're pretty funny.

00:33:38.000 But, you know, so that went on for two days.

00:33:40.000 But, you know, we're in the middle of workups.

00:33:42.000 I got a squadron to run.

00:33:43.000 So it's like, you know, there was – after about the first day and a half, it really died down.

00:33:47.000 And then it was the – there's always that closet people that you don't think that are really like UFO buffs.

00:33:52.000 And, you know, like we had one of the Marines would always come and he'd sit down.

00:33:55.000 Hey, Skipper, can I sit with you?

00:33:56.000 I go, you want to talk about the UFO? He goes, yeah, I just – I can't get it out of my mind.

00:34:01.000 And then we would just sit there and talk about it.

00:34:03.000 To me, it was like, you know, we're just saying, you know, my entire now flying career is defined by five minutes of chasing this white Tic Tac, vice almost 4,000 hours, you know, flying.

00:34:14.000 Now, did you encounter anyone else that had a similar experience?

00:34:20.000 I've talked to the guys, a couple of guys from the East Coast event, the gimbal video.

00:34:24.000 One of them I talk to daily.

00:34:27.000 He's a pretty good friend of mine.

00:34:29.000 Totally different now.

00:34:30.000 Keep in mind, ours is 2004. The gimbal video is 2015. The funny part about the gimbal video and the East Coast stuff that was going on, because that's off the vacate, so off the coast of the United States, they're called warning areas,

00:34:45.000 and all they are is if you look on an aviation map, they're these big Areas that are blocked off by blue and they say like whiskey 291 or whiskey 243. Is the gimbal video available in the same way that that video is available?

00:34:57.000 Yes.

00:34:58.000 Yeah, government-owned.

00:34:59.000 Okay.

00:35:00.000 Find that, Jamie.

00:35:01.000 So – and I was talking to him about it because I – and I asked a buddy of mine.

00:35:05.000 He had just retired.

00:35:06.000 He was the – he led the fighter wing on the East Coast and I had called him up because we start finding out that these things were so prevalent out off the East Coast of the United States and there's a couple of them.

00:35:15.000 So there's the – we're going to talk.

00:35:17.000 What they started seeing originally was these things and one of them almost hit – the airplane almost hit one of these things.

00:35:23.000 But it looks like a cube inside of a clear beach ball.

00:35:26.000 So they don't know if it's actually like a surrounding or it's – you don't know if it's a force field.

00:35:30.000 And you see kind of in the gimbal video, it's got like an aura around it where ours didn't.

00:35:34.000 I always laugh.

00:35:35.000 I go, ours was a Tic Tac.

00:35:37.000 These are not.

00:35:37.000 That means there's different stuff out there that we don't know.

00:35:40.000 But they had two airplanes flying and we fly when we go out to train.

00:35:44.000 We usually – we have a distance.

00:35:46.000 We'll just say we're a mile apart.

00:35:49.000 As we're flying out, so they're flying out and the airplanes are deployed, we call it combat spread, and one of the airplanes almost hits one of these, goes close down like 50 feet down the side.

00:35:59.000 And almost hits one of these floating cubes inside of the beach ball.

00:36:03.000 And someone goes, wow, it's a balloon.

00:36:06.000 It's not a balloon.

00:36:06.000 I mean, these things are literally sitting still.

00:36:08.000 They're no effect from the wind.

00:36:11.000 So if you've got 90 knots of wind and they talk about it, these things are just sitting there.

00:36:15.000 So 60 or 70 people have seen it because the radars, the newer radar in the Super Hornets is extremely, extremely capable.

00:36:24.000 Okay.

00:36:25.000 And at first when they started seeing stuff, they were like, ah, it's just like, maybe it's the radar, just give me a false target.

00:36:30.000 Eh, that radar really doesn't give false targets.

00:36:33.000 And then someone did exactly what Chad did, is they threw their targeting flare out there, and all of a sudden when you see a heat signature, there's a return, there's obviously something out where that blip is at.

00:36:42.000 What is a targeting flare?

00:36:45.000 We call it the AT flare.

00:36:46.000 It's an advanced targeting flare.

00:36:48.000 It sits on the left side of the airplane.

00:36:49.000 So you launch it like a flare?

00:36:51.000 No, no.

00:36:51.000 It's a flare, forward-looking infrared receiver.

00:36:54.000 Oh.

00:36:54.000 So when you see the bombs blowing up on TV and it looks like a black and white and you see it fly, that's the targeting pod.

00:37:00.000 Okay.

00:37:00.000 It's got a laser in it.

00:37:01.000 It's got an IR marker in it.

00:37:03.000 It's a very capable system that syncs up to the Hornet so everything kind of marries up.

00:37:08.000 So this is the go-fast.

00:37:09.000 No, this is go-fast.

00:37:10.000 That's not it?

00:37:11.000 No, it's the other one.

00:37:12.000 It's the one that looks like the – What is that one?

00:37:15.000 That's called the Go Fast.

00:37:16.000 That looks like a Tic Tac.

00:37:17.000 That was another one taken off the East Coast.

00:37:18.000 But they grab it and it's – Bookmark that one.

00:37:20.000 It's going – it's screaming across the ocean at a very high rate of speed.

00:37:23.000 And there's been some debunkers that say, well, it's really not going that fast.

00:37:26.000 It's just the way the airplane is and how the mechanics of the pod are working.

00:37:30.000 When you talk to the crew – because it's actually – I could ask my bud.

00:37:35.000 I'm pretty sure it's the same backseater took both of these videos.

00:37:38.000 Took the GoFast video and took the gimbal video.

00:37:42.000 And my buddy was on the flight with the gimbal video.

00:37:45.000 But they – these things – so I call my bud because I'm like, hey, how many people are seeing these things?

00:37:49.000 They're like 60 or 70. 60 or 70. 60 or 70 people had seen these things on radar.

00:37:55.000 And I said, well, what do you do?

00:37:56.000 And they said, well, we put out a NOTAM, which is a notice to airmen that just says, hey, these things are out there, so just be careful because we don't want you to hit one.

00:38:04.000 Yeah.

00:38:04.000 Whoa.

00:38:05.000 And it's kind of like ours.

00:38:07.000 You go – because you would ask, you know, who do you tell?

00:38:09.000 Well, everyone knows.

00:38:10.000 Well, what do you do?

00:38:11.000 And I said, well, because it was all white and it didn't have any markings on it and it didn't have any wings and it didn't have any rotors and it was just – it outperformed anything that we have.

00:38:21.000 I think if I would have painted China or Russia on the side...

00:38:24.000 Is this the gimbal video?

00:38:25.000 Yes.

00:38:26.000 Okay.

00:38:26.000 So it's the same pod.

00:38:28.000 Starting from the beginning, Jamie?

00:38:29.000 What we're looking at.

00:38:31.000 And when the crew finds it...

00:38:33.000 Now, what you're not seeing...

00:38:34.000 You're seeing the targeting.

00:38:36.000 When you hear them start talking, when you listen to the video, you'll hear the guy go...

00:38:40.000 Dude, look, they're all over.

00:38:41.000 Look at the SA page.

00:38:43.000 So we have a situational awareness page.

00:38:44.000 Whatever the radar is getting returns on, it will show up.

00:38:47.000 It's kind of like our God's eye view in the airplane.

00:38:49.000 So the pod can only look at one thing.

00:38:52.000 So he designates that as his primary target.

00:38:55.000 So that's where the pod is there.

00:38:56.000 The radar is still seeing everything else.

00:38:59.000 So what they're actually seeing in this video is when you see the object that he's tracking, Yeah.

00:39:09.000 Yeah.

00:39:10.000 Yeah.

00:39:23.000 Holy cow, look, they're all over.

00:39:25.000 This is unreported new information that he's actually saying right now.

00:39:29.000 Everybody knows this video.

00:39:31.000 This is the one that they say turns like the Lazar craft like belly first. 0.97

00:39:35.000 However, what he's telling you right now is something that is not public yet.

00:39:38.000 He's telling you that there was a V formation of other objects that the public has yet to see.

00:39:43.000 You're not going to.

00:39:44.000 You're not going to.

00:39:45.000 It's a radar tape.

00:39:46.000 But there were more objects surrounding this is what he's telling you right now, which is fascinating because the world doesn't know that yet.

00:39:53.000 Just so you know.

00:39:54.000 I mean, that's brand new.

00:39:55.000 That's never been reported by New York Times, anybody.

00:39:57.000 Okay.

00:39:58.000 So you can go ahead and play.

00:40:03.000 So the cool thing with this is, you know, when he goes into...

00:40:06.000 So he's in IR mode right now.

00:40:08.000 You're still seeing no plume.

00:40:10.000 He's looking 47. So they're actually turning into it.

00:40:13.000 So it's starting to pull it back towards the nose.

00:40:15.000 See how the number at the top is decreasing.

00:40:18.000 And it's against the wind.

00:40:19.000 Now he's in TV mode, and this thing's going to just start to roll.

00:40:22.000 And you can kind of see it's got that oar around it.

00:40:25.000 He said they were saying that the ones with the squares inside that looked like the beach ball were the same.

00:40:31.000 And this thing's just hanging out.

00:40:32.000 So the airplane's in a left-hand turn, and it's...

00:40:36.000 So it turns sideways.

00:40:38.000 Yeah, it's just rotating.

00:40:40.000 Now, this is how Lazar described...

00:40:43.000 Yes.

00:40:44.000 Don't put that up.

00:40:45.000 Right.

00:40:46.000 Yeah.

00:40:47.000 Lazar described that.

00:40:49.000 That these things would lay flat and then when they would travel, they would turn up on their side.

00:40:55.000 And that's how they maneuvered.

00:40:58.000 So this is very similar.

00:41:01.000 Eerily similar to the propulsion system that Lazar talked about.

00:41:04.000 And that's why this video, we're seeing it very differently now, especially with what we know about Lazar.

00:41:10.000 But the idea is that it would fly belly first in high speed mode.

00:41:13.000 So if they have, these are gravity propelled.

00:41:15.000 This is something that's known within the government.

00:41:17.000 They're trying to back engineer it.

00:41:19.000 They're trying to understand it.

00:41:20.000 We know there's a program currently that they said is gone.

00:41:23.000 However, it is currently active to study this.

00:41:26.000 These things will turn belly first, the saucer type looking ones, and then that's the high speed mode because they focus allegedly, you know, these gravity wave amplifiers.

00:41:37.000 Look, this thing turns mechanically.

00:41:40.000 Again, no typical form of propulsion, as an expert is telling you.

00:41:46.000 This is not a glitch.

00:41:47.000 This is seen by multiple radars, multiple people.

00:41:50.000 Commander Fravor was so close to it.

00:41:52.000 This is something that is not aerodynamic, and it could move in ways and fashions.

00:41:56.000 When he's underplaying it, when we first talked, the idea of this thing going...

00:42:02.000 It's instantaneous acceleration back and forth.

00:42:05.000 There's no slowing down, no turning like a ping pong ball.

00:42:07.000 He said to me our first talk, ping pong ball in a glass.

00:42:11.000 Nothing moves like that with traditional reactionary propulsion.

00:42:15.000 Somebody has technology that we don't have in our inventory.

00:42:20.000 At all.

00:42:21.000 So this is counterintuitive the way it goes from being aerodynamic to being un-aerodynamic when it goes sideways and then flies belly forward.

00:42:30.000 That's correct.

00:42:31.000 It's – well, it's not – if you talk – because I was just talking to the guy the other day and he said the irony with it is these things would be out there for hours.

00:42:40.000 We don't have, you know, a high-performance airplane does not have hours worth of gas.

00:42:44.000 I mean, you know, Hornets, if we don't have aerial refueling, you know, and we're actually out doing a mission and fighting and going fast, you know, you're talking hour and a half and you're coming back to land.

00:42:55.000 Some airplanes are even less, you know, based on their size.

00:42:58.000 You know, so like an F-16 doesn't have external fuel tanks.

00:43:00.000 It doesn't have a lot of gas.

00:43:02.000 And the Soviet airplanes are the same way.

00:43:04.000 The MiG-29 does not have a lot of gas.

00:43:06.000 The Su-27, Su-30s have a lot of gas.

00:43:08.000 Because of weight, because of...

00:43:09.000 It's weight, performance, size of the airplane.

00:43:13.000 So, you know, even our intercontinental bombers like B-2, they still take off in the air or fuel.

00:43:18.000 They keep topped off so they can get to range.

00:43:20.000 That's how we extend things.

00:43:22.000 You got something like this that's coming down.

00:43:24.000 You know, just think of the physics.

00:43:26.000 So just, I'll use my instinct because that's the one I really know the best is you've got an object coming from above 80,000 feet.

00:43:32.000 So...

00:43:33.000 I'll just tell you that 80,000, it's somewhere around 70-80,000 feet is where you can actually start to see the curvature of the Earth.

00:43:38.000 You know, so that's considered space.

00:43:41.000 So they're coming from above that.

00:43:42.000 They're coming straight down, they stop at around 20,000 feet, they hang out for three hours, and then they go straight back up.

00:43:51.000 So, and I know you had Elon on the show.

00:43:53.000 So, SpaceX is really excited because they can launch a rocket and then they can have the booster come back to Earth and actually land on a pad.

00:44:01.000 Very impressive engineering feat.

00:44:04.000 Next to this technology, that's like a Model T next to a Porsche.

00:44:09.000 I mean, it's like, wow, really?

00:44:11.000 That's it?

00:44:12.000 You know, and you got something that can just at will move around.

00:44:15.000 Now take it to the next level, and I know there's a lot of talk about this, so Dave's going to go into speculation mode.

00:44:19.000 But when you take a shape like that, so just take the tic-tac shape, which is shaped like a submarine.

00:44:24.000 If you're using a propulsion that's non-reactive where you're just manipulating the median that you're in, air, whatever, you can go into the water.

00:44:33.000 So when you hear all the reports of, hey, we've seen these things since World War II that would come out of the water and fly, if you have a technology like this, as long as the object is sealed where you're not going to get water inside of it, there's nothing that says you can't do that.

00:44:47.000 Because all you're doing is you're not, you know, where a jet engine sucks in air and blows it out the back or a propeller actually pushes the water.

00:44:54.000 It's a force.

00:44:55.000 Now you've got something that's actually manipulating the gravity field and it's just moving through a void.

00:45:01.000 Then it doesn't, then air, you could literally in theory fly, go into the ocean, cruise around, pop back up, fly around, go to space.

00:45:10.000 Nothing, you remove the barriers of the normal propulsion that we have today.

00:45:15.000 There's been many instances of sightings off the coast of California of things that plunge into the water or escape from the water and take off into space.

00:45:25.000 Yeah, with the field propulsion system, as Commander Fravor's describing, as Lazar described, it doesn't matter the medium of space, air, or water.

00:45:34.000 There's no resistance, no splash.

00:45:35.000 And this goes back to, you know, when Christopher Columbus reported a UFO sighting.

00:45:39.000 He did?

00:45:40.000 Oh, yeah.

00:45:41.000 This idea, so this has been around, anyway, this idea, boom, that you can go through these different mediums.

00:45:47.000 Pause for a second.

00:45:48.000 Christopher Columbus had a UFO sighting?

00:45:50.000 Yeah, it's a written account, so it's like...

00:45:52.000 Find that.

00:45:53.000 No video.

00:45:55.000 It's not a video.

00:45:57.000 This is why I'm shocked. 1.00

00:45:58.000 It's bullshit. 0.99

00:45:59.000 But that's what's so cool. 0.99

00:46:00.000 So Commander Fravor's encounter, it's not the most documented.

00:46:05.000 It's not the most dramatic.

00:46:07.000 However, it has had the most impact out of any sighting because of his credibility and the mere fact that the New York Times picked it up with video footage, radar evidence, and somebody who We're good to go.

00:46:38.000 About UFOs because of this encounter.

00:46:41.000 It's so much evidence, it has so much power to it compared to other ones.

00:46:45.000 Christopher Columbus, great, cool story.

00:46:46.000 Somebody wrote it down.

00:46:47.000 Who knows if he even wrote it down.

00:46:49.000 We have highly documented cases.

00:46:51.000 This one has changed our culture.

00:46:54.000 And that's what's so cool.

00:46:55.000 People are talking about it differently.

00:46:57.000 So this is a good story.

00:46:59.000 This is true.

00:47:00.000 So I was sitting at home and usually when people try and find me, they get my wife's cell phone because it's the first one on the cell phone bill and it's all in my name.

00:47:06.000 So I see this call from California and I'm like, and normally I don't answer them.

00:47:10.000 And it's her phone.

00:47:11.000 I'm like, who's calling my wife?

00:47:12.000 Because that is me.

00:47:14.000 So I answer it, and this lady says, hey, is Commander Fravor there?

00:47:17.000 And I go, who's calling?

00:47:19.000 And she goes, well, I'd like to talk to Commander Fravor.

00:47:22.000 I go, who's calling?

00:47:23.000 And she says, hi, I'm a 79-year-old woman, and I would just like to tell him my story.

00:47:28.000 I go, well, you're talking to him.

00:47:29.000 And she goes, I've never in my life told anyone this.

00:47:33.000 She goes, I grew up, my dad was in the Navy.

00:47:36.000 She goes, he was stationed in Rhode Island at first when she was a child.

00:47:39.000 She said we were walking, her and her mom were walking on the beach and they saw these weird lights.

00:47:43.000 So that kind of got her into that, ooh, UFOs.

00:47:46.000 She goes, a few years later they had moved to San Francisco.

00:47:49.000 So I imagine Treasure Island, because at her age it would have been, you know, probably in the 50s.

00:47:54.000 Her dad was, she said her dad was working as a Navy liaison to the agency.

00:47:59.000 He came home one day and he had a telegram in his hand.

00:48:02.000 And she goes, for some reason he let me read it.

00:48:04.000 She's telling me this story.

00:48:05.000 And I said, well, what did it say?

00:48:07.000 She says it was, it basically said, hey, unidentified objects going in and out of the water and it had a latitude and longitude in it.

00:48:13.000 And he looked at her.

00:48:14.000 She goes, and I'm a child and I always remember this.

00:48:16.000 She says, he looked at me and said, we get these all the time.

00:48:20.000 And it's always in the same area.

00:48:22.000 And I go, of course, I go, well, you got the telegram?

00:48:26.000 She goes, of course not.

00:48:27.000 He had to take it back to work.

00:48:29.000 I said, you don't have to remember that latitude and longitude.

00:48:31.000 She said, no.

00:48:32.000 She goes, but you seem to be so credible and believable.

00:48:37.000 She goes, I wanted to tell someone the story that I've never told anyone in my life.

00:48:41.000 So that's what you're starting to see is people that, you know, very credible.

00:48:45.000 They're not crazy.

00:48:47.000 They're not making stuff up, but they're coming out and going, hey, I've had these experiences.

00:48:51.000 And I've got a lot of that from...

00:48:53.000 Over the last two years where people just find my email and send me stuff saying, hey, this happened to me or I saw this.

00:49:00.000 And there's – some things are explainable because I got asked to tell this.

00:49:03.000 So because we're kind of – I have a sick sense of humor at times.

00:49:07.000 So like I said, I had all these quals.

00:49:09.000 So we used to fly – they don't do it right now because it's a little bit dangerous.

00:49:13.000 But we used to fly night vision goggles low altitude in Hornets.

00:49:17.000 Yeah.

00:49:17.000 All right.

00:49:18.000 So when you put on night vision goggles, they amplify light like a lot.

00:49:21.000 So you can see a campfire like 50 miles away.

00:49:25.000 So we used to do it.

00:49:26.000 The good spots were down in Lake El Centro, California.

00:49:28.000 There's a range that – there's some bombing ranges.

00:49:31.000 But people go camping in the Superstition Mountains, which is kind of north and west of Imperial by – I forget what it is, the springs.

00:49:40.000 It's real prison in the desert.

00:49:41.000 It will come to me in a minute.

00:49:42.000 All right.

00:49:43.000 So we would go out at night flying around on goggles and you'd see a campfire.

00:49:47.000 And you go, oh, UFO time.

00:49:49.000 And then you get the airplane going about 600 knots and then you pull the power back to idle so you can't hear it.

00:49:56.000 And you get zinging towards the fire.

00:49:59.000 Well, you turn the lights are all down because we're in a restricted area so we can do that.

00:50:02.000 And there's lights on it that you can only see if you're on night vision goggles.

00:50:06.000 So the other airplanes can see us, but no one else can see us.

00:50:09.000 Then you go zinging at it, and then right when you get to the campfire, you pull the airplane into the vertical, you stroke the afterburners, you let them light off, you count to three, you pull them off, and then you just go away.

00:50:19.000 Instant UFO reporting.

00:50:21.000 I'm sitting out in the desert, it's all quiet, and then all of a sudden there's a lure, there's lights in the sky, and they go away and it's gone. 1.00

00:50:27.000 You would do that just to fuck with campers? 1.00

00:50:30.000 Yes. 1.00

00:50:31.000 How rude.

00:50:32.000 Yes, I did.

00:50:34.000 I'm not the only one that did it, but like I said, we have a sick sense of humor.

00:50:38.000 Yes, I'm sure.

00:50:39.000 So some things are explainable, because I guarantee there were phone calls made on some of the stuff that we did.

00:50:43.000 And I guarantee you're not the only one who's ever done that.

00:50:46.000 Oh, I know I'm not.

00:50:48.000 Yeah, I'm not that creative, but it's just, you know, you think about it and you go, because people go, I saw this or I saw that because I've got stuff like that.

00:50:55.000 And I go, yeah, I used to create stuff like that, just not tell.

00:50:57.000 Do you, are you, Jeremy, I'm sure you're aware of this, the footage from the Mexican Air Force?

00:51:02.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, very aware of that.

00:51:03.000 What do you think about that?

00:51:05.000 Well, again, it's IR footage, which is really interesting.

00:51:07.000 They actually got the cameras for drug runners, right?

00:51:09.000 Yeah.

00:51:09.000 So you can see in the infrared, so it's beyond the observable, you know, eye.

00:51:15.000 I myself have not detailed looked at the footage.

00:51:19.000 However, FLIR experts and people that work with NSA have looked at it for me.

00:51:22.000 And these are not lights in the distance.

00:51:25.000 These are craft, very similar to what Commander Fravor talks about, without plumes, without heat signatures, you know, non-traditional field propulsion systems.

00:51:35.000 We don't have that.

00:51:37.000 I thought they tried to...

00:51:38.000 Is this it right here?

00:51:39.000 Is this some Mexican Air Force footage?

00:51:41.000 Yeah.

00:51:42.000 So they tried to say these were lights on like an oil rig out in the water that's been debombed.

00:51:47.000 Yeah, they tried to say it was a fire in an oil rig, right?

00:51:49.000 The 2004 Comcast video of the year was the Mexican Air Force tracking like six.

00:51:55.000 So literally right after our incident, we come back and I think we were getting ready to go to Fallon.

00:52:00.000 And I had Comcast and the homepage comes up and there's this video and I go, holy cow, that looks like what we chased.

00:52:06.000 And it was like six of these things and they were tracking them in the same area too, right off the coast of Ensenada.

00:52:10.000 And it's not as rare.

00:52:12.000 There's now admitted an increased frequency that a Pentagon spokeswoman finally went off script.

00:52:18.000 I was tracking the scripts for the last two years of what Pentagon spokespeople say about Commander Fravor's experience.

00:52:22.000 Someone went off script last week in the New York Times, and she admitted there's an increased frequency of near misses because of these AAVs, anomalous aerospace vehicles.

00:52:32.000 So, it's pretty astounding.

00:52:34.000 We're getting all these kind of revelatory moments in these little seeds that these are not ours.

00:52:38.000 We don't have this.

00:52:40.000 Even Elon doesn't have this.

00:52:41.000 I mean, this is a propulsion system unlike anything we have.

00:52:46.000 It's amazing.

00:52:47.000 It's gravity propelled.

00:52:48.000 Now, that gimbal footage, when it said that there's a fleet of them, how far away are those guys where you don't see the individual objects?

00:52:57.000 You only see a singular spot.

00:52:59.000 Well, the pod is, you know, when you get pretty narrow, it'd be like, you know, if I put three people around you, I can look at you and not see the other people.

00:53:06.000 So that's what the pod is doing.

00:53:07.000 But the radar is seeing everything because it has an AESA radar in it, which is an active electronically scanned array.

00:53:13.000 So instead of like the radars we had, which did the mechanical, you know, doing this...

00:53:17.000 Like old school, this thing is just a panel that sits in the front of the airplane and through beam shaping it can move and it can look all over.

00:53:25.000 So we used to have what was called track while scanned so we would be able to track a target while we're still scanning.

00:53:29.000 This thing has scan while – it scans while tracked.

00:53:32.000 So it literally – if it sees you, if the radar sees you, it has basically a weapons quality solution and it can do that on multiple targets.

00:53:40.000 That's the same way the spy radar, the Aegis system, works on the cruisers.

00:53:45.000 It can track multiple targets and have weapons quality on all these different targets while it's still scanning a volume.

00:53:51.000 So in that image, you're seeing one individual object, but there's other objects?

00:53:55.000 Yes.

00:53:55.000 The radar is seeing the object that the pod is looking at where they're talking.

00:53:59.000 And when you hear the video, you hear the pilot say, Dude, look at the SA page.

00:54:04.000 There's a whole fleet of them.

00:54:05.000 So what they're seeing is...

00:54:08.000 The pod is looking at the main – that's the bigger object at the gimbal, the thing that's rotating on the screen.

00:54:12.000 And there's five smaller things in front.

00:54:14.000 So this thing is just sitting there and then they kind of – he said they turn around on the radar and start going the other way while the pod is looking at this guy just kind of rotating.

00:54:22.000 So like a mothership and smaller aircraft?

00:54:25.000 Could be.

00:54:25.000 Something along those lines.

00:54:26.000 Is there video of those smaller aircrafts or just the video of the one large one?

00:54:30.000 The only thing they have is the targeting pod.

00:54:33.000 I would highly doubt, even if they had the video, that they're going to release the radar video because of classification levels.

00:54:38.000 I do.

00:54:38.000 Are you able to tell the story you told me about what was underwater with your other buddy?

00:54:46.000 Is that okay?

00:54:47.000 Yeah.

00:54:48.000 People come out of the woodwork when they figure out you've had this because now they don't feel alone.

00:54:54.000 So I was working – I still do it, but I was doing oil and gas at the time on a contract and one of the guys, the story came out and he was a Navy helicopter pilot.

00:55:05.000 And he comes in and he goes, can I talk to you, man?

00:55:08.000 I go, what about you?

00:55:09.000 He goes, dude, I got to talk to you.

00:55:11.000 I said, what do you want to talk to me about?

00:55:12.000 He says – Dude, do you know your UFO? He said, yeah.

00:55:15.000 He goes, I had a similar experience.

00:55:16.000 I said, what's that?

00:55:17.000 He said he was flying CH-53s, which is a big lift, heavy lift that the Marine Corps uses and the Navy uses it for certain things.

00:55:25.000 And when they go off of – for the East Coast, they do a lot of shooting off of – at the time, it was off of Puerto Rico.

00:55:30.000 We had Roosevelt Roads that they ended up closing.

00:55:33.000 But he was flying out of there.

00:55:34.000 And you got super clear Caribbean water.

00:55:37.000 And they have these things.

00:55:38.000 They're called BQMs. 1.00

00:55:39.000 They fly around.

00:55:40.000 And then when they're all done because they'll fly towards the ships and the ship can – sorry about that.

00:55:44.000 They can track with the radar.

00:55:46.000 And then they also do – like the ships or submarines shoot torpedoes.

00:55:50.000 They're called telemetry rounds.

00:55:51.000 So they have – they gather all the data on what the torpedo is doing underwater.

00:55:55.000 And then they blow ballast and this thing will come to the surface and float.

00:55:58.000 And then they go pick them up and then they can extract all the data out of them.

00:56:01.000 So they do it for both.

00:56:02.000 So he said the first time they're out and they're going to pick up this BQM. And those things, when they're flying, they're done.

00:56:08.000 A parachute comes out and they got to go.

00:56:09.000 They hook it up.

00:56:10.000 The helo drops the swimmer in the water.

00:56:12.000 He goes and hooks this whole thing up and then they hoist the whole thing up and fly back and then they extract the data.

00:56:16.000 So he says he's sitting in the front, you know, in helicopters, there's, you know, CH-53, you can actually see down by your feet, you know, just like typical, like you go to Hawaii and ride the suit because you can see when you're touching down.

00:56:25.000 So you got really good visibility out of those things and you can stick your head out the window too because you're just kind of hanging out.

00:56:30.000 He says he's going on there and they're getting this thing hooked up and as he's looking down, you know, because they're, I don't know what, 50 feet above the water, he sees kind of this dark mass coming up from the depths.

00:56:40.000 And they're starting to hoist the diver up and they've got the BQM and as they hoist it up, he says, and he's looking at this thing going, what the hell is that?

00:56:47.000 And then it just goes back down underwater.

00:56:49.000 It's just like, once they pull the kid and the BQM out of the water, this object descends back into the depths.

00:56:56.000 So he thinks, well, that was pretty weird.

00:56:58.000 So he goes out.

00:56:58.000 He says not too long later, you know, a few months later, he's out and he's picking up a torpedo.

00:57:03.000 So he says they got the – they hooked the diver up on the winch and they're lowering him in.

00:57:07.000 And as he's looking down, he sees this big, massive – he goes, it's not a submarine.

00:57:10.000 He's seen submarines before.

00:57:11.000 Once you see a submarine, you can't confuse it with something else.

00:57:14.000 This big object, you know, kind of circular, he says, is coming up from the depths.

00:57:18.000 And he starts screaming through the intercom system to tell him to pull the diver up.

00:57:23.000 And the diver is like a few feet from the water.

00:57:25.000 So they reverse the winch and the diver's thinking, what the hell's going on?

00:57:28.000 And he's getting pulled up and all of a sudden he said the torpedo just got sucked down underwater.

00:57:34.000 And the object just descended back down into the depths.

00:57:37.000 And they never recovered the torpedo.

00:57:40.000 Jesus.

00:57:41.000 And this happened in the late 90s.

00:57:44.000 Mid to late 90s, I think it is.

00:57:46.000 I can probably get in touch with him and ask him.

00:57:48.000 And he told me this story and I'm like...

00:57:49.000 How do you report that?

00:57:51.000 You come in and go, well, where'd the torpedo go?

00:57:54.000 It just got sucked down.

00:57:55.000 It just went down.

00:57:56.000 And then you get to people that attribute it as, ah, something happened when it blew ballast and it just took on water and sank.

00:58:01.000 And he's like, it didn't sink.

00:58:02.000 He goes, it literally looked like it got sucked down.

00:58:07.000 The only reason they didn't, they talked to him when they did the New York Times stuff, they talked to him, but because the incident was from the 90s, they wanted something newer, so they did not include it, but I know they talked to him about it.

00:58:18.000 Now, what was the other footage that we were looking at?

00:58:20.000 There was the first footage that Jamie pulled up that wasn't the gimbal footage?

00:58:23.000 Oh, the Go Fast.

00:58:24.000 The Go Fast.

00:58:25.000 What is that?

00:58:26.000 It actually looks more like a Tic Tac, but they saw it going across the water, and they're just grabbing a lock.

00:58:33.000 So they're seeing this with their eyes, and he gets the FLIR to lock on it, and that's when you hear the kid go, oh, I got it, because he gets the auto track, and it's just something screaming across the surface of the water.

00:58:43.000 And this is in the same area?

00:58:44.000 This is East Coast, yeah.

00:58:45.000 This is the same time frame as the gimbal video.

00:58:48.000 So the idea that these are birds, or the idea that this is a radar glitch, or somebody said pilot error, like on a clear blue day, Commander Fravor has nerves.

00:58:56.000 I mean, that kind of thing that people have said on your show to you, these are explanations that make sense.

00:59:02.000 Who said that?

00:59:04.000 I don't even want to say their names.

00:59:06.000 Oh, Mick West?

00:59:06.000 Yeah, sure.

00:59:07.000 Mick believes everything.

00:59:09.000 Like, every single thing that's ever happened has a rational explanation for it.

00:59:14.000 Yeah, so the probability that all the radars went off at the wrong time, Commander Fravor had nerves, all the other pilots up there with him, that this thing shot off like a gun instantly, that that was somehow perfectly coordinated.

00:59:28.000 That's a conspiracy.

00:59:29.000 That's a fabrication.

00:59:31.000 Probably, Occam's Razors, the events happened exactly like we're being told.

00:59:36.000 Yeah, for us it was – and I'll go back to the beginning of the story of the other pilot who was brand new.

00:59:42.000 She had been in the squadron for four months, five months.

00:59:47.000 So she's pretty junior.

00:59:48.000 She was still working on her initial qual on the airplane.

00:59:51.000 And so she gets the – we get the real-world vector and it's like, OK, real-world vector, cool.

00:59:56.000 I'm going to get to do something real, exciting.

00:59:58.000 Then you see the water and you think, oh, something is sinking because it's kind of that shape of an airplane, that cross type. 0.96

01:00:06.000 So now it's – oh, crap.

01:00:07.000 Now it's search and rescue. 0.94

01:00:08.000 We got to go down and see because there's people and we are sympathetic. 0.98

01:00:13.000 And to the tic-tac and as soon as the tic-tac, it's like – Holy shit, what is that? 0.91

01:00:19.000 And when you get – some people get very emotional when you talk about it because for me it was like – for her, when you talk to her, she has a disdain for some of the leadership that didn't tell us that these things were out there.

01:00:37.000 Here now we're getting vectored because we were the first time the manned airplanes had been airborne when one of these things showed up.

01:00:43.000 That no one even gave us a brief that, hey, we're seeing these objects out here for the last two weeks.

01:00:46.000 You might want to know they're out there.

01:00:49.000 And they never told us.

01:00:50.000 No one knew these things existed besides the radar operators.

01:00:53.000 And the radar operators didn't know what they were.

01:00:55.000 They just knew they were seeing blips.

01:00:58.000 So there's a lot of stuff that it flew around and it came around me and it didn't do any of that stuff.

01:01:05.000 The story that I gave you is just relatively benign, but it's an interesting experience.

01:01:13.000 So these incidents that they reported were taking place before you saw that Tic Tac encounter?

01:01:19.000 Yeah.

01:01:20.000 They were taking place over a period of how many weeks?

01:01:23.000 Two weeks.

01:01:23.000 We went out at the beginning of the month for this two-week at-save period.

01:01:27.000 We pulled in for Thanksgiving, but other than that, we were out until, I think, December 21st is when we pulled the ship back in, besides pulling in for the three days of Thanksgiving.

01:01:36.000 So yeah, for the two weeks prior, so this was on the 14th, and we went out at the beginning of the month.

01:01:40.000 So about two weeks, they'd been watching these things come down, go up, come down, go up.

01:01:43.000 But it was always when we were not flying, which is really probably like the midnight timeframe until early in the morning, you know, until noon the next day.

01:01:51.000 And then we just happened to go.

01:01:53.000 And if you think about it, you know, I laugh.

01:01:55.000 You know, if there was some little green man flying around in that Tic Tac, he probably got back to the mothership and got yelled at for being seen. 0.60

01:02:03.000 You're like, oh my god, you let them see you!

01:02:06.000 So have you communicated with anybody that has any thoughts on what these things are doing or whether or not there's any consistency to the size of them or whether or not they think they're coming out of a larger object or anything along these lines?

01:02:26.000 No.

01:02:27.000 You know, you can ask, well, because I was asked, you know, what do you think they were doing?

01:02:31.000 You know, and I said, you can look.

01:02:33.000 Well, they were observing, you know, because they're coming down and watching.

01:02:37.000 Number two is they were communicating because I think, you know, in my heart, I think there was something under the water.

01:02:43.000 I don't, you know, what it was doing there.

01:02:45.000 This is because when you saw the X, the cross-looking thing.

01:02:50.000 Explain that again.

01:02:51.000 So the disturbance seemed to be in the shape of a cross?

01:02:55.000 I describe it as – it's about the size of a 737. So just think if you submerge the 737, pointing it to the east underwater by like 10, 15 feet.

01:03:05.000 So as these waves are coming across, when they hit that object, they're going to break on top just like you would with a submerged like a seamount.

01:03:12.000 So, and it's, they're breaking, and that's where the Tic Tac was at.

01:03:15.000 That's the only reason we saw the Tic Tac.

01:03:16.000 That's what drew our eyes down there, is we see this whitewater when it's a perfectly clear day with no whitecaps, and you go, whoa, what's that?

01:03:23.000 And then you see the Tic Tac, and then we, you know, we do all the chasing of the Tic Tac, and we turn, we're right there. 0.56

01:03:27.000 And we turn around, and there's no whitewater.

01:03:30.000 It's just blue as far as you can see.

01:03:33.000 So, at that point, you go, okay, what was it doing?

01:03:37.000 Because there was obviously something there that's not there now.

01:03:41.000 So that's where I say, well, it was observing us.

01:03:43.000 It could have been communicating with whatever was there.

01:03:47.000 And then someone else looked at me and said, I was talking to Lou, and he goes, what about prepping the battlefield?

01:03:51.000 I go, okay.

01:03:52.000 So if you go, where are these things from?

01:03:54.000 We don't know.

01:03:55.000 Are they from China, Russia, someplace else?

01:03:58.000 I don't know.

01:04:00.000 But it's a capability that we do not possess to my knowledge.

01:04:06.000 And if you ask me in 2004, because there's a lot of guys go, well, maybe it's some secret government program.

01:04:11.000 I go, All right.

01:04:14.000 Well, let's be honest.

01:04:16.000 One, if you have a propulsion system that made – it gave the capabilities that we observed visually, that's a huge leap for mankind period.

01:04:25.000 So you would say, yeah, it was – you know, think about it.

01:04:30.000 It's going to be 15 years next month that we saw this.

01:04:34.000 I would like to think that – OK, maybe – let's just say in 2004 it was something.

01:04:38.000 Somebody had this.

01:04:39.000 Some government had this.

01:04:40.000 I don't – ours, whatever.

01:04:42.000 If you come to now, you go 15 years later, you don't think that technology would have emerged because it literally would change everything we do.

01:04:48.000 I mean we're happy about hybrid and electric cars and all this other stuff, but if you've got something that works like that, It would change air travel forever.

01:04:57.000 No visible system of propulsion.

01:05:01.000 No plumes.

01:05:02.000 No, we joke.

01:05:05.000 Think of a 40-foot-long Tic Tac that can move at will through the air at speeds well beyond what we've ever witnessed.

01:05:15.000 I mean, even when you watch a rocket go off, you know, one of Elon's or one of the NASA, whatever, you know, you sit there and while I grew up during the Apollo ages where you just look at the thing and go up, up, up, up, up.

01:05:25.000 I've seen them shot out of Vandenberg where you go, you know, I'd sit in my house in Central California and you'd watch it go up and go, oh, I can watch that thing for a while.

01:05:31.000 This is something that just like, poof, in a matter of seconds is gone.

01:05:35.000 Now, are other pilots or other people that have sighted these things, have they also reported something larger that's in the water near it?

01:05:44.000 No.

01:05:45.000 Not the ones I've talked to.

01:05:46.000 I mean, I think you can get on History Channel.

01:05:49.000 There's all kinds of stuff on there about people talking about stuff.

01:05:51.000 But here's the question is, what do you believe?

01:05:54.000 What do you not believe?

01:05:55.000 And my biggest frustration is...

01:05:59.000 You know, our incident and even the folks on the East Coast, it is what it is to us.

01:06:03.000 There's no reason to embellish.

01:06:05.000 There's no reason to make stuff up.

01:06:06.000 But yet there's still groups of people that are making stuff up like someone came out on ours, was talking about, and he's like, oh, I saw the whole video is 10 minutes long and it was doing all this. 0.99

01:06:16.000 It's bullshit. 0.89

01:06:18.000 What you see is that's literally the entire video. 1.00

01:06:20.000 It's a minute and a half long.

01:06:22.000 I think it's about a minute and a half long.

01:06:23.000 What people haven't seen that I saw, I mean, I've seen the radar tapes because I had them as my squadron.

01:06:29.000 You know, I've heard, you know, the men in black, you know, I just, you know, maybe the, okay, I'll give you the credit if they did, but why wouldn't they show up and talk to the guys who actually witnessed it, chased it, and is one of the senior guys in the battle group?

01:06:42.000 Right, and it's also possible that that men in black stuff was something that they used to do back in the day and that that program is no longer continued.

01:06:51.000 Jeremy, you would know this, the older sightings, when they go back into the day, to historical sightings, not Columbus, but in the 50s and 60s, did they have similar things that they talked about, or something moved in this manner?

01:07:05.000 Yeah, it's absolutely incredible, and I want to dumb this down, because that's how I had to understand it.

01:07:09.000 When I was talking with Commander Fravor years before I kept his secret, years before the New York Times blew it up, I told them it was probably going to happen, it wasn't by me.

01:07:19.000 We're talking about it.

01:07:20.000 This system that we have seen for over 70 years, just documented by our military, this is so important.

01:07:28.000 This is a non-reactionary field propulsion system.

01:07:32.000 Everything we know is a reactionary propulsion system.

01:07:36.000 You push something out the back, it goes forward.

01:07:38.000 This is not like a mag system.

01:07:40.000 This is a gravitational fuel propulsion system.

01:07:43.000 And throughout history, our military has documented them.

01:07:47.000 And there has been ridicule.

01:07:48.000 And I'll tell you exactly why.

01:07:49.000 In 1952, there was a huge flyover of Washington, D.C. Jets were scrambled.

01:07:55.000 All the papers covered it.

01:07:57.000 It's a very famous case everybody can look up.

01:07:59.000 It's an important case.

01:08:00.000 Because at that time, a policy was started.

01:08:03.000 And that policy started because it crashed our communications, the teletypes went down, the panic of the UFOs that were being seen by people with fighter pilots trying to capture and trying to engage them.

01:08:17.000 And it crashed the teletypes.

01:08:19.000 So our government was like, oh, that's not happening again because Russia could use that as a scare tactic.

01:08:24.000 So this policy of denial, don't look here, nothing to see, move on, UFOs are fake.

01:08:30.000 That's what Project Blue Book was tasked to do specifically.

01:08:34.000 The guy who ran it admitted that, that it was tasked to debunk this and demystify the UFO thing.

01:08:41.000 That's J. Allen Hynek, correct?

01:08:42.000 Right.

01:08:43.000 I also, yeah, J. Allen Hynek.

01:08:45.000 He was once asked by a friend of mine, do you have the smoking gun?

01:08:48.000 I'll give you this document.

01:08:49.000 It's pretty amazing.

01:08:50.000 It's an Air Force manual where they explain what they know about UFOs at that time in 1967. But here's the point.

01:08:56.000 Yes, this has been going on since the beginning of recorded human history.

01:09:00.000 These propulsion systems that are captured...

01:09:05.000 On footage that is confirmed now by the Pentagon, like Commander Fravor's experience, this technology is not ours.

01:09:13.000 It was here 70 years ago.

01:09:15.000 You said about 15 years ago.

01:09:16.000 We would see it now.

01:09:18.000 These exact things at 20,000 miles an hour going on 70 years ago documented.

01:09:24.000 Somebody has a non-reactionary field propulsion system.

01:09:28.000 Now, are they aliens or some subset of humans?

01:09:32.000 Somebody has them.

01:09:34.000 And they're flying through our airspace with impunity and pilots like Commander Fravor who, by the way, defended Los Angeles after 9-11.

01:09:41.000 I mean, this is a guy we put all of our trust in.

01:09:43.000 He was defending Los Angeles right after 9-11.

01:09:47.000 So we got people like him coming forward saying, I saw this.

01:09:50.000 And you get internet warriors being like, it's a bird, it's a glitch, it's Superman.

01:09:53.000 Let's not concentrate on them.

01:09:54.000 What about the Columbus thing?

01:09:56.000 Did you find that?

01:09:57.000 Yeah, it's just a written...

01:09:58.000 Yeah, it's listed as like light, 1492 light signature event that they saw light in the distance.

01:10:04.000 It could have been biolum.

01:10:05.000 Is the actual text?

01:10:08.000 No, just like Wikipedia stuff.

01:10:10.000 It's just one of the oldest accounts I was trying to throw out that this is something that...

01:10:14.000 Do you know of, there's a very famous painting that shows what appears to be men in crafts flying through the sky in the background of an ancient painting?

01:10:27.000 Do you know what I'm talking about?

01:10:28.000 I do.

01:10:29.000 I actually have a page.

01:10:30.000 One of the first pages I ever put on my website is like a bunch of these because throughout history there are these indications of ships, of craft.

01:10:39.000 But you know what I'm talking about?

01:10:43.000 That's the shape of it.

01:10:44.000 It's also like a plate turned on its side and then there's a person inside of it.

01:10:50.000 Yeah, man.

01:10:51.000 It's exciting.

01:10:51.000 And it's flying through in that same...

01:10:53.000 Yeah, that's it.

01:10:54.000 Yeah.

01:10:54.000 Like, look.

01:10:55.000 Look how it's flying.

01:10:57.000 But, you know, the thing is, is that everybody can say art.

01:10:59.000 The one above, that's pretty cool because that was a hidden thing.

01:11:02.000 I've studied that one where it says Discovery 15th Century.

01:11:05.000 Above her left shoulder, there is an object.

01:11:09.000 And if you really zoom in, look at the dude staring up at it.

01:11:12.000 As a painter, my wife is a painter.

01:11:14.000 Everything is intentional.

01:11:16.000 Where's the guy?

01:11:17.000 Yeah, right over there.

01:11:18.000 It's pretty cool.

01:11:18.000 Looking up.

01:11:19.000 So I think that's 15th century, it said.

01:11:21.000 So the problem with this, Joe, is that- Go to the original one, the one that we just looked at, Jamie, the one right before that.

01:11:26.000 Yeah.

01:11:27.000 See, get a big picture.

01:11:28.000 Yeah.

01:11:28.000 That is so strange.

01:11:30.000 Yeah, man.

01:11:30.000 Like, here you got Christ being crucified, and then above him, UFOs.

01:11:37.000 Like, is that supposed to be aliens?

01:11:39.000 Or is that supposed to be angels?

01:11:41.000 Like, what is that supposed to be in these things that they have?

01:11:45.000 It's real similar to what we're talking about here.

01:11:49.000 That's the argument of Miracle of Fatima, let's say.

01:11:51.000 And again, this is so speculative.

01:11:52.000 We have a witness here, you know, a pilot.

01:11:54.000 But when you see something like the Miracle of Fatima, if you look at that… What is the Miracle of Fatima?

01:11:59.000 God, that's that one that was, you know, considered a real miracle by the church and the three kids were getting messages, I'll get this all wrong, but for like months that they're going to be visited and to bring people in bigger and bigger groups gathered to where there was over 100,000 people.

01:12:13.000 What year is this?

01:12:15.000 1917. 1917. So, you know, dozens of thousands, if not hundreds, but dozens for sure, see an event, a mass sighting of something that happened.

01:12:27.000 We're talking people that were religious, people that weren't religious, you know, doctors at the time.

01:12:31.000 That's not a real image, is it, Jamie?

01:12:32.000 That one was doctored a little bit, so you could see, like, they're all looking at something.

01:12:36.000 But that's not real.

01:12:37.000 But that's the crowd, right?

01:12:39.000 The crowd is real.

01:12:41.000 Is that right?

01:12:41.000 Yeah.

01:12:42.000 So here's the thing.

01:12:43.000 People come out, something happened that was so intense.

01:12:47.000 Some people thought it was religious, that it was a visitation, but other people saw it as technological, like something descended.

01:12:55.000 Look into it.

01:12:55.000 I'm just saying, art, pictures, like paintings we're talking about, man, you can interpret them all day.

01:13:00.000 I can't hold on to that.

01:13:02.000 I can't hold on to an eyewitness with other eyewitnesses, with radar systems, and with video.

01:13:08.000 We're in a different era now.

01:13:10.000 We don't have to paint it, man.

01:13:11.000 We get to see it.

01:13:12.000 It's fascinating, man. 0.98

01:13:14.000 It is fascinating, but it's way more fascinating when someone like you talks about it versus some fucking random kook. 1.00

01:13:22.000 That's what makes me incredibly interested, is your credibility and the fact that you don't have a history of seeing wacky shit that other people don't see. 0.98

01:13:33.000 No, just this once. 0.98

01:13:34.000 But it's on video, and there's other ones as well.

01:13:37.000 It's really strange.

01:13:38.000 I've seen people try to explain it away, and what I don't like about when they explain it away or attempt to explain it away is that they're trying really hard. 0.98

01:13:46.000 They're not going, who knows what this fucking thing is. 0.92

01:13:49.000 They're not looking at it, like, cleanly. 0.99

01:13:51.000 They're looking at it like...

01:13:53.000 A quote-unquote skeptic.

01:13:55.000 I don't like the idea of being a skeptic.

01:13:58.000 Not that I don't think you should be skeptical of certain things.

01:14:01.000 I certainly think you should be.

01:14:02.000 But there's a lot of people that brand themselves as skeptics.

01:14:05.000 And I think it's a lazy way to look at things.

01:14:07.000 I really do.

01:14:09.000 Because I think you're just looking for the holes in things without looking at it objectively.

01:14:13.000 If you wanted to be a scientist, if you wanted to be someone who is a fan of science, then you have to look at it as a thing.

01:14:22.000 Look at this information and let's study this without any bias, any preconceived notions.

01:14:27.000 I don't think they're doing that.

01:14:29.000 They're looking at it and they're trying to find a way where they can justify that it's fake.

01:14:35.000 And they're just doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to try to make it fake. 0.82

01:14:39.000 That video that you show where that thing slips off to the left and takes off at incredible rates of speed, that alone should freak people the fuck out.

01:14:48.000 Yeah, well, I think because people confuse all the time, like we took the video and it was another crew that took the video.

01:14:53.000 We watched it for five minutes with our eyeballs and there was four of us and we all have the same story.

01:14:59.000 We all saw the same stuff. 0.83

01:15:00.000 We all came back and looked at each other and scratched our head and said, WTF? You know, I mean, serious? 0.86

01:15:05.000 What was that?

01:15:07.000 You know, and then what do you do?

01:15:10.000 You move on.

01:15:11.000 We never saw it again.

01:15:14.000 I imagine they probably saw him on radar after that, but I think They're probably seeing them on radar all the time.

01:15:19.000 They just don't bring it to the attention of the general public.

01:15:23.000 Oh, yeah, because if you don't, you know, for a ship when they see something, you know, what is that?

01:15:27.000 Well, you don't have any way to go out there and look at it.

01:15:30.000 Like when you're talking about how they were informing you that they were seeing these things previous to your mission, when you're doing this exercise and they let you know that they're seeing these things, did you say, hey, how frequent is this?

01:15:45.000 Is this something that happens all the time?

01:15:47.000 I didn't get into that.

01:15:48.000 Ours was more of the moment of, you know, when he's telling us, hey, for the last two weeks we've been tracking these things.

01:15:53.000 And we don't know what they are.

01:15:55.000 But you don't know whether or not it was just those two weeks or maybe it was a year ago.

01:15:59.000 There was other similar situations or...

01:16:01.000 There's other situations that have happened out there, but I would say, you know, for this, I don't even know...

01:16:07.000 One, you've got to take it serious.

01:16:09.000 We have a tendency, if we don't know what it is, if we just ignore it, it'll go away.

01:16:13.000 You know, and I joke, you know, there was an incident years, it's probably not too far off the same time frame, but I think it was like the Constellation was doing her workups before she got decommissioned, and an Oscar class, a Soviet Oscar class submarine surfaced behind her,

01:16:29.000 right?

01:16:30.000 And then it's, now it's like, you know, go to battle stations, World War III, how did this foreign submarine get in our area and has been monitoring our workups?

01:16:39.000 That's a big deal.

01:16:40.000 Right.

01:16:41.000 I said, but now we go out and we have these things that are coming at will, and there's nothing we can do about it.

01:16:46.000 We don't know what they are.

01:16:48.000 We have confirmed sighting by two aircrew, four of us, two planes, that said, look, this is not an airplane.

01:16:56.000 This is not a weather balloon.

01:16:58.000 This is not a blip.

01:16:59.000 It has performance well beyond, you know, and the airplanes that we were flying at the time were literally brand new Super Hornets right out of the Boeing factory.

01:17:06.000 I mean, these were brand new first Block II series that came out.

01:17:11.000 And you go, why wasn't something done?

01:17:14.000 You know, it's like, ah, we don't know what it is.

01:17:16.000 I think it's good now, you know, the moves that have happened over the last, you know, two years since the original article came out that, you know, now there's a new reporting for the pilots.

01:17:26.000 The Navy's acknowledged, hey, these things, we don't know what they were.

01:17:29.000 You know, they're starting to take it serious because, you know, I know there are other events that are not out, recent events where people have been called in to go, hey, I've seen this thing.

01:17:38.000 So the investigation process is still going on.

01:17:41.000 We don't – the military doesn't stop.

01:17:45.000 Even if you take funding away, we don't stop.

01:17:47.000 We don't stop until we're told to stop.

01:17:50.000 So what's going on?

01:17:52.000 You go, well, AATIP ended.

01:17:55.000 They spent $4.5 million a year on it.

01:17:57.000 I think it was $4 million.

01:17:57.000 It was $22 million over the five years.

01:17:59.000 So you go – What are they doing since then?

01:18:02.000 Well, I mean I'm pretty sure there are still people looking at this and there are still people that are taking this serious.

01:18:07.000 I will tell you that – I won't get into specifics but there are people inside the United States government that are taking this serious and I've been down to D.C. twice to talk to folks.

01:18:18.000 You know, behind closed doors to go because they want to hear the story.

01:18:22.000 And I've got a lot of you got to be joking.

01:18:24.000 I mean, this seriously happened.

01:18:25.000 And I'm like, yeah, it did happen.

01:18:28.000 And it is real.

01:18:30.000 What are you doing about it?

01:18:31.000 So what kind of people are you talking to?

01:18:34.000 High level government officials is what I'll say.

01:18:36.000 And most of that is because that conversation is between me and them.

01:18:39.000 And I don't want people speculating.

01:18:41.000 But you can say high level government officials I have talked to.

01:18:45.000 Well, that was always the speculation about, like, what would someone do if they became president?

01:18:51.000 Well, the first thing I would do is I would tell everybody about the UFOs.

01:18:55.000 I would ask immediately, what's going on?

01:18:59.000 And I always thought about it, I said, how many people actually know what's going on?

01:19:02.000 And how much of the information, I mean, it's not like, if they're dealing with something like this, like your experience, it seems like what you described is what is known.

01:19:15.000 So it's this anomalous event where this thing defies our current understanding of technology, and then it's gone.

01:19:25.000 And so what do you have?

01:19:26.000 You don't have anything else other than that.

01:19:28.000 What other information does anybody have?

01:19:32.000 Well, I would say this, because I've talked to Bob.

01:19:35.000 Bob Lazar?

01:19:36.000 Yeah, we did an event together.

01:19:38.000 And I'll leave it to everyone.

01:19:40.000 It's up to you to believe Bob.

01:19:42.000 I'll say this.

01:19:43.000 Bob's a normal guy.

01:19:44.000 Bob's not crazy.

01:19:45.000 He's not crazy at all.

01:19:46.000 Not at all.

01:19:47.000 That was the weirdest thing about talking to him.

01:19:49.000 But when you look at it and go, because I had asked Bob, I said...

01:19:54.000 What he describes in the technology when he talks about his story, I said, well, do you honestly think we could, you know, reverse engineer it?

01:20:02.000 I said, how long do you think it would take us?

01:20:04.000 And his response to me was another hundred years.

01:20:07.000 He goes, Dave, it was so far beyond...

01:20:10.000 He goes, the stuff that he says he worked on.

01:20:12.000 He's like, you know, he was on your podcast because I watched it.

01:20:16.000 You know, hey, there was no wires.

01:20:17.000 Because I had asked him when he said you first described the ship that he got to see.

01:20:21.000 He said, I used to say, you know, they built it and then it was like wax and you'd heat it up.

01:20:25.000 He goes, now I would say it was built with 3D printing.

01:20:27.000 Because now with 3D printing, we can build things literally from the ground up.

01:20:30.000 And it's basically built as one.

01:20:32.000 Not panels.

01:20:33.000 No rivets.

01:20:34.000 It's just made.

01:20:35.000 And...

01:20:36.000 So when you talk about that and you go, well, it's still another 100 years.

01:20:39.000 So you go, well, what if you had the technology?

01:20:42.000 We still – if what Bob says is correct, we still don't understand it.

01:20:47.000 And how fast would it take us to understand that?

01:20:50.000 I mean if it's driven by something that we don't even have on Earth, which is when he talks about that element – We can't create it.

01:20:58.000 We can create it for a microsecond and then it decays.

01:21:02.000 Element 115. Yeah.

01:21:04.000 So I think we're still a long ways off.

01:21:08.000 I'll argue with the people that go, are we really alone?

01:21:12.000 I was telling Jeremy we used to go out on goggles.

01:21:15.000 Out in the middle of the Pacific, there's no light pollution.

01:21:17.000 Goggles?

01:21:17.000 Night vision goggles.

01:21:18.000 So we can see.

01:21:19.000 Well, you go out at night, I'd be on like a tanker hop or something just hanging out.

01:21:23.000 Not doing anything, driving around in circles with the autopilot on.

01:21:25.000 You just turn all the lights down in the cockpit so you have no light pollution and you just roll your head back and look up.

01:21:30.000 There's billions and billions and billions of stars out there.

01:21:35.000 I always look up because I'm like, are we alone?

01:21:39.000 I look up and go, well...

01:21:41.000 If we're the only ones around and everything I'm looking at, it's a pretty sad place.

01:21:46.000 It's a pretty lonely universe.

01:21:47.000 I asked my astrophysics prof that once.

01:21:49.000 I said, you believe in extraterrestrial life?

01:21:51.000 And she's like, of course not.

01:21:53.000 And I said, well, there's billions and billions of planets.

01:21:56.000 You think we're it?

01:21:57.000 I mean, just the probability of it is you'd go, oh, there's probably something else out there.

01:22:03.000 And I'm not crazy.

01:22:04.000 I'm just opening up the possibility that we are not the only planet that has life on it. 0.93

01:22:08.000 I think people don't like to seem silly. 0.98

01:22:11.000 They don't like to be foolish. 0.94

01:22:13.000 And I think when people start talking about anything that's not proven or anything that's connected to a bunch of loony people that are making up stories, which UFOs certainly are. 0.94

01:22:22.000 Yes.

01:22:22.000 UFOs are connected to so many people that have made up so many stories.

01:22:26.000 What was that gentleman's name from, you would know, that guy who's from another country, Billy something or another?

01:22:32.000 Billy Meyer.

01:22:33.000 Seems 100% full of shit. 1.00

01:22:35.000 Yeah, he's proven to have done tons of hoaxes with this, but here's the deal. 1.00

01:22:40.000 Sometimes I think people have a real experience, and they're always like chasing that dragon, and they get UFO disease, and the brain goes fucking berserk, right?

01:22:47.000 I know that there are people that have had profound experiences, and then they can't ever replicate them, so then they just start going crazy.

01:22:54.000 And I don't blame them for it, but you got someone like Commander Fravor, when he saw that AAV, anomalous aerospace vehicle, his reaction was, I want to fly it.

01:23:05.000 That's a pretty cool reaction.

01:23:06.000 I'd like to fly it.

01:23:07.000 Yeah, imagine flying that thing.

01:23:09.000 That's what I told my buddy, he was my ex at the time, Del.

01:23:11.000 I got back after all this happened and he looks at me and we're just standing in the ready room and he goes, hey dude.

01:23:17.000 I go, what do you think it is?

01:23:18.000 I go, I have no idea but it was pretty freaking impressive and I'd like to fly it.

01:23:23.000 Yes, of course.

01:23:23.000 And he goes, yeah.

01:23:24.000 I mean, it was.

01:23:27.000 It's just like any pilot.

01:23:28.000 You always want to fly the coolest thing.

01:23:29.000 Of course.

01:23:30.000 Yeah, of course.

01:23:30.000 You're a race car driver, you want to drive the fastest car.

01:23:33.000 That's it.

01:23:33.000 Now you look and go, well, that's something we don't have.

01:23:36.000 Yeah.

01:23:37.000 This idea that maybe we're not alone, that some of these other stars have planets that are maybe technologically advanced.

01:23:42.000 So the next thing people say, and new eras are going to say, well, they're not coming here because the distance is so vast. 0.98

01:23:49.000 Hold the fuck up. 0.87

01:23:50.000 From the very beginning, when Bob Lazar came forward and talked about field propulsion, gravity propulsion, Distance becomes completely irrelevant. 0.99

01:23:58.000 So if we believe, and the radars are right, and Commander Fravor saw this thing move in like a ping pong ball in a glass of water, it's gravity propelled, that's why you can make those maneuvers without exploding, then distance becomes completely irrelevant for travel.

01:24:13.000 You're literally warping time and space.

01:24:16.000 You're falling into place.

01:24:18.000 Well, it's like the idea of showing someone a video on your phone long before video was ever invented.

01:24:23.000 Right.

01:24:23.000 People will be like, what are you talking about?

01:24:25.000 Like before photography was invented, which is shockingly recent, right?

01:24:29.000 You ought to draw pictures of things you saw, just like those people that drew or painted those images of those men and whatever those things were with Christ in the background.

01:24:39.000 The idea that we could understand what some insanely impressive technology from a planet that is nowhere near us could manifest.

01:24:50.000 It's nuts.

01:24:51.000 Bob Lazar talks a lot about this.

01:24:53.000 Remember, he's a young guy, right, in 1989. He gets shown something.

01:24:58.000 And all of a sudden he's trying to interpret it through 1989 technology.

01:25:01.000 So he said it looks like it was injection molded because that's what he had.

01:25:05.000 And then I sent him this thing about nanotechnology and, you know, working towards an atomic printer.

01:25:10.000 He's like, dude, that makes a lot more sense.

01:25:12.000 So he has to view it through where he saw it in 1989. However, I will say this.

01:25:17.000 It is my knowledge that we understand exactly how these craft work.

01:25:21.000 Our one limiting factor is our material science.

01:25:24.000 We can't replicate, not...

01:25:26.000 The fuel source itself is another...

01:25:27.000 When you say we know exactly how they work...

01:25:29.000 Yeah, it doesn't break our laws of physics, this concept of amplification of gravity, this concept of gravity propulsion.

01:25:36.000 We understand how things can move from point A to point B almost instantaneously.

01:25:41.000 Our physics doesn't disallow it, but our material science and the fuel...

01:25:47.000 To create that machine that we have machines from other places.

01:25:51.000 What do you mean?

01:25:53.000 Well, Bob Lazar, whether you believe him or not, there was a program.

01:25:58.000 I have other witnesses that I will be bringing forward about S4, where he worked.

01:26:03.000 You have other witnesses that worked alongside Bob?

01:26:09.000 Bob's account in that they saw him get on and off the red and whites, the Janet flights that come on, somebody that went to Papoose Lake and was stopped by non-military guards at that time, people that were aware of Site 4 and ET exploitation projects.

01:26:28.000 One is an SR-71 pilot that I've been talking with for a couple years.

01:26:31.000 These people are coming forward now, and it's like I'm sick and tired of doing it, these little nitpicky things about Bob.

01:26:38.000 There was a program.

01:26:40.000 There was a back engineering program.

01:26:42.000 They've admitted there are materials.

01:26:44.000 So this is like the meta-materials you heard about in the New York Times, all that.

01:26:46.000 We have materials associated with UFOs that are interesting.

01:26:51.000 What is that?

01:26:52.000 What are you talking about?

01:26:53.000 So this is something that was launched in the first New York Times article, I believe, in December of 2017, that there is studies being done right now on materials associated with UFOs, right?

01:27:03.000 So actual metals that have come off of, you could say, crashes or just- Not that it explained that there was something – they were with Eric Weinstein that was explaining that there was someone who reportedly has something along those lines.

01:27:18.000 Jacques Vallée has 17 samples.

01:27:20.000 17 samples.

01:27:21.000 How does one guy get 17 samples? 0.96

01:27:23.000 Well, he's Jacques fucking Vallée, right?

01:27:24.000 So he's the guy first ever for the United States military created a computer program for the study of UFOs for Project Blue Book. 0.85

01:27:31.000 So he's an old school guy.

01:27:32.000 They modeled him individually.

01:27:34.000 In the Close Encounters movie, it's modeled after Jacques Vallée, the French guy.

01:27:37.000 So he's kind of been involved with this.

01:27:39.000 He's had more access to government databases than any of us.

01:27:43.000 He went around, collected samples from known crashes or when things will come off.

01:27:50.000 And what's the conclusion?

01:27:51.000 Well, they're studying them right now.

01:27:52.000 There was just something on Fox about it.

01:27:54.000 They're studying some of these materials.

01:27:56.000 And what they will find, because the ones they're talking about, I actually took to New Mexico and had five scientists study it in About five years ago, I got my hands on it, got to study it, the famous parts they're talking about now.

01:28:08.000 It's layered, and the way it's layered is what they're trying to see if it's anomalous elementally or the way that the elements are bound together and also the atomic level of layering is what's interesting.

01:28:21.000 We'll find out if it's interesting.

01:28:23.000 Explain what you're talking about.

01:28:24.000 What is this thing that you saw?

01:28:25.000 Okay, well, there are a lot of different samples, but when you get a sample of something and you can see...

01:28:31.000 How big are these samples?

01:28:32.000 The ones that I looked at, they ranged from about this size down...

01:28:38.000 Audio.

01:28:39.000 They ranged from the size of...

01:28:41.000 Yeah, size of an orange to the size of a quarter.

01:28:44.000 These are materials, right?

01:28:45.000 Are they materials from a crash?

01:28:48.000 Allegedly, there's a known crash.

01:28:50.000 This is in the public domain rather than government-controlled.

01:28:54.000 So what I was looking at or having the scientists look at is isotopically and elementally.

01:29:00.000 What are the elements that are in this?

01:29:02.000 Are they engineered?

01:29:03.000 And what's the conclusion?

01:29:04.000 Well, I'm going to leave it to the people that are doing it now who have much better machines than I had.

01:29:10.000 Do you know any cliff notes?

01:29:11.000 Yeah.

01:29:13.000 From what I understand, there's atomic layering.

01:29:17.000 There are levels of...

01:29:18.000 Like we do with graphene.

01:29:19.000 We lay down these layers that are...

01:29:22.000 It's basically oriented at a certain degree.

01:29:24.000 That's how you get a superconductor or something like that.

01:29:26.000 If you take a piece of graphene and it's highly machined so it doesn't deviate from that atomic layering, you can push it right through ice like a hot knife through butter.

01:29:35.000 It's the weirdest feeling in the world because you just take this piece of what feels like graphene and it just goes right through butter because it's a superconductor and the heat from your hand Melts the ice.

01:29:44.000 So that is a metamaterial.

01:29:45.000 It doesn't occur naturally.

01:29:47.000 Humans created it.

01:29:48.000 And it has special properties because of the way it's atomically layered.

01:29:53.000 So if these materials are from somewhere else, then we suspect that they're going to be highly machined, that they're going to be created for special use.

01:30:01.000 So my whole point is our material science has not caught up with the physics that we understand for these field propulsion systems.

01:30:09.000 I'm just telling you, believe me or not, but you'll hear more about it, that That our material science in 1989 and today is our limiting factor.

01:30:19.000 And as our material science gets better as humans, we know how these things work.

01:30:24.000 Now the fuel source, that's a whole other conversation.

01:30:28.000 But as far as creating these machines, that's what we're trying to do.

01:30:32.000 That's why there is secrecy.

01:30:33.000 We're trying to exploit the technology because whoever exploits it first wins.

01:30:37.000 It's a game changer.

01:30:38.000 We don't want Russia to do it. 0.52

01:30:40.000 We don't want China to do it.

01:30:41.000 If we had a non-reactionary propulsion system, the world would look different instantaneously.

01:30:46.000 What is your perspective after the incident versus before the incident?

01:30:54.000 How much did it change the way you view the world and our place in the world?

01:30:58.000 For me, I mean, I always – I never believed that we were alone.

01:31:02.000 It's just me.

01:31:03.000 I just look up and go, there's way too many stars up there for us to be alone in life.

01:31:08.000 After it, it makes it a little more clear to go – one, my questions are where did it come from?

01:31:15.000 That's the biggest one of – Where'd it come from?

01:31:18.000 What was it doing?

01:31:20.000 You know, and then I've asked, why me?

01:31:23.000 I mean, why did I happen to be, because you can say, wrong place, wrong time.

01:31:29.000 Right.

01:31:29.000 Right place, right time.

01:31:30.000 Or right place, right time.

01:31:32.000 For me, it was, I think there's more out there.

01:31:35.000 And if I could get word out to anyone, it's like, you know, especially the debunkers of, one, quit trying to debunk it, because it is what it is.

01:31:43.000 It wasn't a There wasn't a system glitch.

01:31:45.000 I mean this was a real incident that happened.

01:31:47.000 Number two is let's open our aperture a little bit and start thinking outside of the box.

01:31:52.000 If you go – you look at it and go, hey, it's this non-reactive propulsion.

01:31:56.000 Well, it's because when we came up with propulsion, we – the people long before us came up with a reactionary propulsion system and that became our standard.

01:32:05.000 Had we done something different or we developed non-reaction, we might look at something like a gasoline engine and go, holy cow, how does that thing work?

01:32:13.000 We wouldn't have that idea.

01:32:14.000 So I think there's – if you look at it and go – people thought Einstein was kind of nuts and we're still proving his theories today and what we're learning is that he was right. 0.94

01:32:26.000 And he was right.

01:32:26.000 There was a time when the earth was flat, except for some people in California.

01:32:30.000 The earth isn't flat as round.

01:32:31.000 It's not just people in California.

01:32:33.000 They're all over the place.

01:32:34.000 There's not an ice wall.

01:32:35.000 So when you look at that and you go, you know, a lot of the stuff that we thought was true… Isn't true.

01:32:43.000 It's totally been changed.

01:33:04.000 Everything that we do, you know, and we don't know exactly, you know, do you want that system in a car?

01:33:09.000 You know, people have trouble driving in two dimensions, let alone three.

01:33:12.000 Right.

01:33:12.000 You know, it's kind of like your joke last night.

01:33:16.000 I mean, you can't even handle the vaping thing, let alone driving a car that goes up, down, works in three dimensions.

01:33:21.000 Well, that was what they originally wanted helicopters to be.

01:33:23.000 They wanted to be flying cars.

01:33:26.000 Yeah, if you get out on the road, you see how people drive.

01:33:29.000 And I always laugh because people think, well, we're three-dimensional.

01:33:32.000 Like we know that this table is not the floor, but really humans are two-dimensional people.

01:33:36.000 And you learn that, especially when we would fight.

01:33:39.000 If you can really work in the third dimension, which is up, and you go, well, we are three-dimensional.

01:33:44.000 I go, no, if you look at like a tall building is, you know, 1,700 feet high, the big ones.

01:33:49.000 And you go, no.

01:33:50.000 You know, for an F-18 to do a split S, which is go from up here and just do a vertical 180-degree turn, so you're going this way and you go down here.

01:33:58.000 It's like 2,500 feet.

01:34:00.000 And that's tight.

01:34:01.000 That's a tight turn for a jet.

01:34:03.000 You know, unless you're running like vector thrust stuff, but there's – everything has a cost.

01:34:06.000 So if you do some big high-acca, you bleed off energy.

01:34:09.000 There's a cost associated with that.

01:34:10.000 That, to a pilot, that's three dimensions.

01:34:13.000 To most people on Earth, you go – I look at a hill and I don't want to walk up that thing in an airplane.

01:34:19.000 It's a totally different thing.

01:34:20.000 So if we just open up that expanse for what we're trying to do for technology and go, is there another way?

01:34:26.000 Because we still build suckers and blowers, which is a jet engine. 0.99

01:34:31.000 We just refine the internals, the turbines to get them to be more efficient.

01:34:35.000 Where I go, why don't you just put your efforts someplace else?

01:34:38.000 Like I was talking to – there's a whole realm of physics that really doesn't get explained and it's – I was talking to Steve Justice about it.

01:34:47.000 It's more into the magnetics type side that we don't spend a lot of time on.

01:34:54.000 And I know what he said when he was working at Skunk Works, he did – it's called IRED, Internal Research and Development Money.

01:35:00.000 That he would fund to try and look at some of these other technologies for propulsion.

01:35:05.000 And he's now since retired.

01:35:08.000 But really impressive to talk to him at the level that you can, which is for us would be an unclassified level.

01:35:15.000 But the stuff that goes on behind closed doors, there's reasons for it.

01:35:20.000 If a technology like that got out where someone could rapidly reproduce it after all you've done or they got it first, you think of the atomic bomb.

01:35:28.000 Germans almost had it.

01:35:29.000 We got it.

01:35:30.000 Russians were working on it.

01:35:31.000 We got it first.

01:35:33.000 Changed the world.

01:35:34.000 Literally changed the world when we detonated the first one and you go – I'm not going to get into the politics behind it.

01:35:41.000 Now we had it and now it was the race everyone else because they had to get on equal par because it's a destabilizing thing. 0.99

01:35:46.000 And now all of a sudden if you develop a technology like this and you keep it to yourself, you've got something that no one else has and it's a huge leap.

01:35:54.000 I mean it's a quantum leap.

01:35:57.000 Do you share it?

01:36:00.000 Because it's a mankind thing, or do you keep it for yourself?

01:36:04.000 Right now, it's not for me to decide.

01:36:07.000 I'm just Dave.

01:36:08.000 Well, it's fascinating that some other method of propulsion could have been established in some other place, and that we're experiencing it, or that you've experienced it, and some other folks have experienced it, in action.

01:36:25.000 I just think for us as people, as human beings in 2019, it's really easy to think that what we have now is so amazing and that what we have now is the pinnacle of discovery and that what we have now is,

01:36:41.000 you know, with our electricity and with our LED screens and that we are experiencing like the height of technology when if you're some creature from some other planet that is...

01:36:54.000 Got easy access to element 115 and some gravity propulsion system.

01:36:59.000 You're looking at us like we're digging holes in the side of a mountain to protect ourselves from the rain.

01:37:03.000 We're cave people.

01:37:05.000 Yes.

01:37:06.000 Yeah.

01:37:06.000 Well, we do that here on Earth.

01:37:08.000 Yeah.

01:37:08.000 I mean, you look at like a first world, you know, like a United States or, you know, the developed nations.

01:37:13.000 And then you go to some of these other and go, you know, people are still getting their water out of a hole in the ground with a bucket.

01:37:17.000 Right.

01:37:18.000 Or people in the rainforest that are living these indigenous lifestyles.

01:37:22.000 Yeah.

01:37:23.000 So, you know, take them something.

01:37:25.000 I mean, take them one of these flat screens down to one of these tribes that no one's ever seen and go, hey, look. 0.99

01:37:29.000 And start showing them pictures of themselves that you're shooting real time or video that's feeding directly into it.

01:37:34.000 They'll freak out.

01:37:35.000 They'll think it's magic.

01:37:36.000 Would you capture my soul?

01:37:37.000 Right.

01:37:38.000 So it's where are we at and what are we going to do and what can we do?

01:37:42.000 Did it change the way you look at life?

01:37:44.000 I mean, even though you knew that or you had this feeling that we were not alone just from looking at the stars, but when you actually see the thing, I would imagine that that has got to really shift your perspective.

01:37:59.000 I don't know if it shifted my perspective, but it was more of a – it's a validation.

01:38:04.000 A confirmation.

01:38:05.000 To go – you go, yeah, I've always like, yeah, there's a lot of stars.

01:38:09.000 And then you see something like this and go, well, maybe we're not because that pushes you to the next point to go – one lands in my front yard, then I'll be 100 percent sure that we are not alone because it's sitting in my front yard.

01:38:21.000 Yeah.

01:38:21.000 I mean, I got within a half mile of this thing, which is, people go, well, a half mile is pretty far away.

01:38:27.000 Not when you're flying an airplane.

01:38:28.000 A half mile is like really tight.

01:38:29.000 When they bring you in to have these conversations with high-level government officials, how long are these conversations?

01:38:36.000 So I went to the – I've been – I've talked to three different groups of people.

01:38:41.000 This is post the New York Times article?

01:38:43.000 This is post New York Times article.

01:38:44.000 So the New York Times article comes out in 2017. Yes.

01:38:47.000 And then our government – The other pilot that was involved had been to D.C. multiple times.

01:38:55.000 This is how kind of I got in touch with Lou.

01:38:58.000 She had called me and said, hey, I need to talk to you.

01:39:02.000 So I called her and I said, what's going on?

01:39:03.000 She says, hey, have you been – has anyone called you about the Tic Tac?

01:39:06.000 And I said, no.

01:39:07.000 She goes, I've been to the Pentagon like a half dozen times and they'll take me in anywhere from Starbucks to inside of a vault.

01:39:15.000 And she goes, and they'll talk to me about the story, and then they'll show me a picture.

01:39:17.000 Something goes, did it look like this?

01:39:18.000 And then she gets pretty frustrated and goes, we call it the Tic Tac because it looked like a Tic Tac.

01:39:22.000 What part don't you get?

01:39:23.000 I mean, go get a thing of Tic Tacs and look at it.

01:39:25.000 When they're saying, did it look like this, are they showing actual crafts that they have?

01:39:30.000 No, not pictures that they have, but like a video from someone else.

01:39:33.000 Like they'd show the gimbal video.

01:39:34.000 Hey, did it look like this?

01:39:35.000 And it was no.

01:39:37.000 And that's when I told her, I said, well, just tell this guy that you're talking to, just give my name a number.

01:39:42.000 I go, I'll talk to him.

01:39:43.000 It's not a big deal to me.

01:39:45.000 And that started.

01:39:46.000 So when I got asked multiple times to go down and talk to people, one of them was supposed to be 20 minutes.

01:39:52.000 And these are important people.

01:39:54.000 Getting 20 minutes of some of these folks' time is like, that's a huge deal.

01:39:58.000 So we went in thinking, okay, we're going to do the thing in 20 minutes and then we're in.

01:40:02.000 And an hour and a half later, we came out.

01:40:05.000 I mean that's the interest of – and there were some – you get the group, the folks that come in and out.

01:40:11.000 But there's a few that just sat there and were enamored by what we were saying, like you're joking.

01:40:17.000 We're like, no, this is all real.

01:40:19.000 I mean these are pretty senior officials.

01:40:23.000 That are taking the time out of their day to take this serious to go, you know, maybe we do need to put a little emphasis on this.

01:40:29.000 I mean, literally, if something can just show up at will and do whatever it wants, I'd probably at least pay attention.

01:40:37.000 Yeah, pay attention.

01:40:37.000 But what could be done?

01:40:38.000 I mean, what could they do?

01:40:39.000 If you put yourself in a position of one of these high-level government officials, what do you do?

01:40:44.000 Just spend more money on looking at them?

01:40:46.000 Well, if you look at money though, I mean I know when the article came out and they talked about the ATIP program that Harry Reid got funded $22 million over five years.

01:40:53.000 So it's $4.4 million a year.

01:40:54.000 And you go – everyone is freaking out.

01:40:56.000 Oh, it's $22 million.

01:40:57.000 No, it wasn't $22 million a year.

01:40:58.000 It was $4.4 million.

01:41:00.000 That's not even in the rounding error for the United States.

01:41:02.000 We just got approved what?

01:41:03.000 It was $750 billion for a defense budget.

01:41:08.000 $750 billion.

01:41:10.000 If you took $100 million out of that, it's not even going to put a dent.

01:41:14.000 And I go, why can't you – if you're only spending $4.4 million a year and you can actually get some good work done because you don't need a huge team.

01:41:21.000 Because you figure if you look at I think – what's the number like?

01:41:25.000 10, 15 percent of all these UFOs like if you look at Project Blue Book really remained unexplained.

01:41:31.000 And you go, okay, so you can weed out, you know, you can weed out me flying over someone in a campfire and lighting my afterburners.

01:41:37.000 So you can go, no, that was Dave being Dave.

01:41:40.000 So you can weed that stuff out.

01:41:42.000 Now you go, now I'm really kind of concentrating the funds.

01:41:44.000 The most important thing, and I talked to the folks when we were talking, because we talked about funding.

01:41:48.000 And I said, let me leave you with this.

01:41:50.000 And I had got some pretty good stuff.

01:41:52.000 I was talking to Chris Mellon, who's a former undersecretary and understands how the government works.

01:41:56.000 It was where he gave me some really good feedback.

01:41:57.000 And I said...

01:41:58.000 I talked to him.

01:41:59.000 I said, look, I'm all for you guys funding a program, but what you need to do is fund a program that there's going to be oversight over.

01:42:05.000 When I say oversight, I mean because what happens is you go, here's money, but we're going to distribute it in the government, so we're going to distribute it to these three different agencies across the United States government.

01:42:14.000 Just call them agency A, B, and C. So you give it to them, and I'll go back to the 9-11 stuff where we really had the answer, but all the agencies weren't talking to each other to put all the pieces together, and that's my fear that You go, hey, we're going to take $100 million of taxpayer money.

01:42:29.000 We're going to fund a program to actually seriously investigate this stuff and look at the technology.

01:42:34.000 But there are three different entities working on their own and not talking to each other.

01:42:37.000 So there's got to be a joint collaboration until we go, we're going to do it. 0.99

01:42:41.000 But Joe is going to be in charge and you guys are all going to play nice in the sandbox together because we want to get our money's worth because people will raise the fraud, waste and abuse flag that we're wasting money on something stupid. 0.60

01:42:55.000 Now, the gimbal video shows a different kind of thing. 0.97

01:42:59.000 Yes.

01:43:00.000 How many different kinds of things are you aware of?

01:43:04.000 Well, those are ours, too.

01:43:06.000 If you look at the GoFast, it kind of looks like a Tic Tac.

01:43:09.000 So you could say those two are the same.

01:43:11.000 I think there's other stuff out there.

01:43:15.000 And sometimes it's not that the...

01:43:18.000 You got to look at where do you obtain the video.

01:43:20.000 It's just like intelligence.

01:43:22.000 I know you got that picture of Pablo out there.

01:43:25.000 And there was the guy, Tom Cruise made the movie about him.

01:43:28.000 What's his name?

01:43:28.000 Louisiana dude who was flying the drugs for Pablo in and out.

01:43:31.000 Barry Seal.

01:43:32.000 Barry Seal.

01:43:33.000 Hey, it was all great until Reagan posted that picture that they had the cameras inside the cargo plane.

01:43:39.000 And then Pablo puts it together.

01:43:40.000 The only place that picture came from is...

01:43:42.000 Barry Seale's airplane, you know, and then now Barry Seale's a dead man.

01:43:45.000 So you got to watch when you release because you go, hey, we got this video, but it was taken someplace we probably weren't supposed to be.

01:43:52.000 Or how did they get that video?

01:43:54.000 Right.

01:43:54.000 Like I'll look.

01:43:55.000 The video of our – the Tic Tac video, that thing first came out.

01:43:59.000 It's kind of funny.

01:44:01.000 The guy that was in my backseat had sent me an email, and this is about probably – So I was retired.

01:44:09.000 And he sent me this video.

01:44:10.000 He said, Skippers, does this look familiar?

01:44:11.000 And it was on strangeland.com, not suitable for work.

01:44:15.000 I'll just say that.

01:44:16.000 But I look and then next thing you know, it's on YouTube.

01:44:18.000 So when I would tell this story to my friends, I would go – I'd send them a link to the YouTube video.

01:44:23.000 And this is years before the New York Times article.

01:44:25.000 And then when they did the unofficial official report, the video was taken down off of YouTube.

01:44:31.000 And, you know, it kind of puzzled me, like, why'd you take the video down?

01:44:33.000 And I told the guys when they did the unofficial fish report, I said, what you really need to look at is how did this thing come off of a classified drive system on an aircraft carrier and end up on strangeland.com and YouTube?

01:44:42.000 Because at the time, the videos were classified secret.

01:44:45.000 And that's not because it was a UFO. It's the AT FLIR video.

01:44:49.000 They did not want that released.

01:44:50.000 So you'd see it on CNN. They blocked out all the performance stuff, what the airplane was actually doing.

01:44:54.000 In this case, you know, the one you see, it's 250 knots of the autopilot on, so it's not that big of a deal.

01:44:58.000 But...

01:44:59.000 Jeremy, how many different types of vehicles are you aware of that have been reported?

01:45:05.000 Credible reports for decades, hundreds of different shapes.

01:45:11.000 Even Lazar himself said he saw nine different styles all working off the same propulsion system.

01:45:16.000 The tic-tac-shaped vehicle, that goes back in history.

01:45:21.000 Some people say cigar-shaped.

01:45:23.000 Big ships, small ships, you know, they're all different kinds.

01:45:26.000 I think it's important to state, though, there are other funded, government-funded UFO programs.

01:45:32.000 It's a misnomer, actually, that AATIP was the recipient of the $22 million.

01:45:37.000 It was actually Harry Reid created a program called OSAP. OSAP was the sole beneficiary of that $22 million.

01:45:43.000 New York Times got it wrong.

01:45:45.000 And then what happened is AATIP was a different funded program to study military encounters with UFOs.

01:45:52.000 OSAP was created because of Skinwalker Ranch, a government program to study UFOs and associated phenomenon.

01:45:59.000 AATIP and OSAP communicated and shared information, but they were independently funded.

01:46:05.000 So the $22 million was for OSAP and then AATIP had its own sources.

01:46:10.000 And then they did collaborate two UFO programs.

01:46:13.000 There are more that I think we're going to learn about.

01:46:16.000 So...

01:46:18.000 The different shapes that Bob Lazar saw, there was nine different shapes that he saw inside the hangars.

01:46:25.000 Only one up close, yeah.

01:46:27.000 And none of them were like the tic-tac. 0.78

01:46:30.000 Not specifically.

01:46:31.000 However, that's not an uncommon...

01:46:33.000 If you go back in history of like military sightings of craft going maybe over 20,000 miles an hour, the tic-tac is a shape.

01:46:39.000 They have triangles.

01:46:40.000 They have ones that look like rectangles.

01:46:42.000 The thing that is common with all of them...

01:46:44.000 It's the non-reactionary propulsion system.

01:46:47.000 I think even Commander Fravor said the thing noticed him was the words he first said to me and kind of went towards him with its nose.

01:46:54.000 But it could move in any direction, right?

01:46:56.000 I mean it could just move at will, however it was.

01:46:58.000 Yeah, when we first saw it, it was just basically – it never turned.

01:47:00.000 It was just going left, right, kind of doing this.

01:47:02.000 Shape probably doesn't matter.

01:47:04.000 And then it became aware because it turned and it actually mirrored what I was doing.

01:47:07.000 When I was coming down, it came up.

01:47:09.000 And, you know, so it was obviously new we were there.

01:47:11.000 And I don't know if it was picking up, you know, energy coming off the airplane or what.

01:47:15.000 You know, I do know that when they tried to lock it, it actively, you know, it jammed a radar, made it pretty much useless.

01:47:21.000 And, you know, Chad was pretty good about kicking it over and grabbing that video.

01:47:25.000 So it's pretty wild.

01:47:29.000 It's a big deal to actively jam a radar of ours, you know?

01:47:32.000 Yeah.

01:47:35.000 It's, you know, whenever someone tells you an awesome story, it's great to hear, but God, I wish I saw it myself.

01:47:42.000 You know?

01:47:43.000 It's like this thing. 0.95

01:47:45.000 You're telling me, and I'm like, wow, I'm listening, I'm trying to imagine, I'm putting it in my head, I'm visualizing it, but damn, I wish I could see it.

01:47:54.000 Yeah, I said this to a guy where he's pretty – I don't say who it was or what his position was.

01:48:00.000 He's pretty prominent in the UFO community.

01:48:01.000 I'm not really a UFO guy.

01:48:03.000 And he starts quoting – like Jeremy, can he quote events?

01:48:06.000 Oh, this was this event, that event, that event.

01:48:08.000 He keeps looking.

01:48:09.000 He goes, well, do you know about this event?

01:48:10.000 I go, nope.

01:48:12.000 And he goes, what about this event?

01:48:13.000 I go, nope.

01:48:14.000 He gets like three of them and I look at him and he goes, well, you're not a UFO guy.

01:48:18.000 I go, nope.

01:48:19.000 No.

01:48:20.000 But I chased one.

01:48:21.000 Have you?

01:48:22.000 And he goes, no.

01:48:22.000 I go, I'm an expert.

01:48:26.000 You're an actual. 1.00

01:48:27.000 He kind of got deflated a little bit because he looked at me like, you suck. 1.00

01:48:31.000 Well, it's like people that are into baseball stats, but they've never played. 0.99

01:48:35.000 Yeah.

01:48:36.000 You know, you got to get your hands dirty.

01:48:38.000 Get out in the field.

01:48:38.000 Yeah.

01:48:39.000 I'm with you, Joe.

01:48:40.000 Like, I wish I had seen it.

01:48:40.000 I've been so curious about the propulsion system since Lazar, and I wish I could see something, too.

01:48:45.000 Oh, my God.

01:48:46.000 Yeah.

01:48:46.000 I would give so much.

01:48:49.000 I'd almost think about running for president just to win, just so I could get in and find out about UFOs.

01:48:54.000 Everybody's tried. 1.00

01:48:54.000 And then go, I quit, bitch! 1.00

01:48:56.000 Everybody tried that, man. 1.00

01:48:58.000 Clinton tried.

01:48:59.000 Did he?

01:49:00.000 Oh, big time.

01:49:01.000 He came in, he said, first thing, Webster-Hubble, he said, I want to know two things.

01:49:05.000 Who killed JFK? And I want to know all about UFOs.

01:49:08.000 And he was denied access.

01:49:10.000 And he later said, it's not the first time...

01:49:12.000 I've been lied to or denied information after asking for it.

01:49:15.000 Bill Clinton said that.

01:49:16.000 Additionally, Jimmy Carter, he said before he was president, I'm going to find out.

01:49:20.000 Well, Jimmy Carter supposedly saw you.

01:49:22.000 He did.

01:49:22.000 He said, I'm going to find out.

01:49:23.000 I'm going to tell you.

01:49:24.000 Never talked about it again afterwards, after he became president.

01:49:28.000 Wonder what his briefing looked like.

01:49:30.000 So many presidents have tried because they're like us, man.

01:49:33.000 They're curious.

01:49:34.000 However, this information, from my understanding, which is an informed understanding, is so compartmentalized.

01:49:40.000 Yeah.

01:49:42.000 That makes sense.

01:49:43.000 But listen, is there anything else?

01:49:46.000 Just one thing.

01:49:46.000 I want to make sure to brief you on Storm because I still blame you for it a little bit.

01:49:50.000 Can I do that?

01:49:51.000 It's not my idea.

01:49:52.000 Can I just give your audience a quick break now?

01:49:54.000 Okay, so check this out.

01:49:55.000 I made a movie, Bob Lazar, Eric 51, and Flying Saucers.

01:49:58.000 Joe blows it up.

01:49:59.000 I go on a show with Bob Lazar, which was awesome.

01:50:02.000 Thanks for letting Bob tell everybody what happened.

01:50:03.000 My pleasure.

01:50:05.000 And then the world lit on fire.

01:50:07.000 Now, from a sociological pop culture standpoint, what happened on that day is huge.

01:50:12.000 And I don't want it to be missed on anybody.

01:50:14.000 So a kid watches your podcast, watches the movie, puts up this Facebook page, Storm Air 51. Oh my God, that's a big problem, right?

01:50:22.000 So I ended up talking to the kid and all this and trying to help him navigate.

01:50:26.000 Kid went left.

01:50:27.000 He should have gone straight.

01:50:28.000 Anyway, vent went down.

01:50:30.000 Rachel, Nevada, where Area 51 is where the access points go up.

01:50:35.000 We all went out there, right?

01:50:37.000 But really, Rachel, nobody wanted people to come.

01:50:40.000 It's a town of 52 people, one business.

01:50:43.000 The residents, I live in Pioneer Town, California.

01:50:45.000 It's tiny.

01:50:46.000 You don't want your whole town taken over by potentially dangerous millions of people that are signing up for this on Facebook, right?

01:50:53.000 So it's this huge phenomenon that happened because of What happened?

01:50:57.000 So here's what actually happened because the media has completely lied to you.

01:51:01.000 They said 150 people showed up.

01:51:02.000 Yeah, it's a total fabrication out of the footage to prove it.

01:51:05.000 We had an event in...

01:51:07.000 I participated in an event in Heiko, Nevada, which is safely 50 miles away from Rachel where they didn't want us.

01:51:14.000 And on the fly...

01:51:17.000 3,000 plus.

01:51:19.000 To me, it's a huge win.

01:51:21.000 3,000 plus people, even though they were scared to come because they were told to be scared to come out there, that it's going to be a riot.

01:51:28.000 And they peacefully assembled and enjoyed this thing I had.

01:51:32.000 But what happened?

01:51:34.000 There's nothing.

01:51:35.000 They just got together.

01:51:36.000 3,000 people.

01:51:37.000 Yeah, but everybody came with the idea that they're curious about this.

01:51:40.000 It engaged a whole new audience of people.

01:51:42.000 We had Dave Foley talked.

01:51:44.000 We had Paul Oakenfold.

01:51:46.000 People talked?

01:51:48.000 Do you have microphones set up?

01:51:49.000 Yeah.

01:51:50.000 I set it up.

01:51:51.000 I brought in speakers.

01:51:52.000 I brought in speakers.

01:51:53.000 Dave, did you avoid this?

01:51:55.000 Yeah, I'm a military guy.

01:51:57.000 I'm not storming a government. 1.00

01:51:59.000 That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. 1.00

01:52:01.000 It's like, hey, let's all jump the White House fence. 1.00

01:52:04.000 I'm like, are you wacky? 1.00

01:52:05.000 That's the dumbest idea on the planet. 0.99

01:52:07.000 Yeah, I didn't understand the benefit of getting all those people together. 0.99

01:52:10.000 No, no, people were going.

01:52:12.000 And so my point was, well, let's at least bring people who can talk about it and have a civilized fun time and see what people want to do.

01:52:19.000 So my point is, it's amazing anybody came out to begin with and nobody went crazy.

01:52:23.000 So what is the 150 people that were reported?

01:52:26.000 Maybe at the gate itself to go see.

01:52:28.000 So that's probably what would have happened if someone like you didn't come along and organize something else.

01:52:32.000 Yeah, I didn't organize it, but I definitely advocated for safety, and it worked, and it was a success.

01:52:37.000 So they just got together and talked.

01:52:38.000 3,000 people got together and talked.

01:52:40.000 Well, it was spread out all throughout.

01:52:41.000 Rachel, the community, didn't want people. 0.99

01:52:43.000 There was an event there, though.

01:52:45.000 In Heiko, where I was, was the event with the stage and the fun stuff we all did.

01:52:48.000 George Knapp was there as well.

01:52:50.000 How did you promote this?

01:52:51.000 Well, they did the event.

01:52:52.000 They promoted it because people were already coming.

01:52:54.000 Did you promote it on social media?

01:52:56.000 Sure.

01:52:56.000 I said if you're going to go somewhere, that's where I'm going to be and it's going to be safe and sane.

01:53:01.000 My point is this.

01:53:02.000 You have so many people that are curious now.

01:53:05.000 And don't underestimate what happened when someone watched your podcast and that happened.

01:53:09.000 Boom! 0.99

01:53:10.000 You've got all these new people who are interested in it.

01:53:12.000 And I think that's important because… This UFO phenomenon is real.

01:53:16.000 You've got fighter pilots that engage them.

01:53:19.000 It represents a non-reactionary propulsion system.

01:53:22.000 And that's a physics that would change the world.

01:53:24.000 So the more people that come together and say we're interested, the louder the voice we got.

01:53:28.000 I think it's cool.

01:53:29.000 And I had some alien Budweiser.

01:53:30.000 Great.

01:53:31.000 Well, I don't know if there's really any benefit to people physically getting together.

01:53:35.000 But I do think that there's a lot of benefit...

01:53:38.000 I'm glad you had a good time.

01:53:39.000 But I do think there's a lot of benefit to this discussion.

01:53:43.000 And I really think there's a lot of benefit to hearing the stories from people like you.

01:53:48.000 Because that's the only thing that matters to me. 1.00

01:53:51.000 It's like I need to know the person who's telling me the story isn't full of shit. 0.99

01:53:56.000 So when I get it from someone like you, I really, really appreciate it. 0.99

01:54:00.000 That's it.

01:54:01.000 Thanks for being here.

01:54:02.000 Thanks for telling your story.

01:54:03.000 Thanks for having me.

01:54:04.000 Thanks for being you.

01:54:05.000 Thank you, Jeremy, for setting this up. 0.85

01:54:06.000 And thanks for your documentary on Bob Bazaar, which really, like, fucking turned me around. 0.72

01:54:11.000 Thanks, man. 0.82

01:54:11.000 That was the one. 0.82

01:54:12.000 All right.

01:54:12.000 That's it.

01:54:13.000 Bye, everybody.

01:54:17.000 Woo! 0.99

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 05, 2019

Joe Rogan Experience #1361 - Cmdr. David Fravor & Jeremy Corbell

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