The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1369 - Christopher Ryan

00:00:02.000 And now the official hello.

00:00:05.000 Hello, Chris Ryan.

00:00:06.000 Hello, officially.

00:00:07.000 What's going on, buddy?

00:00:07.000 How are you?

00:00:08.000 Everything. 1.00

00:00:09.000 You distinguished-looking motherfucker. 1.00

00:00:10.000 Am I distinguished? 1.00

00:00:11.000 What's going on with the goatee, the whole deal?

00:00:13.000 Yeah, it comes and goes.

00:00:14.000 I don't know.

00:00:16.000 What have you been up to, man?

00:00:17.000 I've been following your Instagram chronicles.

00:00:19.000 Have you?

00:00:19.000 Yeah, you travel in the world in a van.

00:00:21.000 What are you doing?

00:00:23.000 Vanthropology, I call it.

00:00:24.000 It's the Vanthropology Tour.

00:00:25.000 Yeah, I love it, man.

00:00:27.000 It's like, you know, you and I have probably spoken about in my 20s, I backpacked all over the world and hitchhiked to Alaska a couple times and did all these adventures.

00:00:36.000 A sprinter van that you have a bed in and a cooler and a freezer, that's kind of like a backpack for an older, slightly richer dude.

00:00:46.000 That's how I look at it.

00:00:47.000 Because you have everything you need with you, which is a feeling I love.

00:00:51.000 I love just being able to say, you know what?

00:00:53.000 I'm tired.

00:00:54.000 I'm going to pull over and sleep right here.

00:00:56.000 And before I do, I'm going to have a couple of beers and listen to some music.

00:01:00.000 And it's like everything I need is right here.

00:01:02.000 Right.

00:01:03.000 What is the deal with pulling over in a sprinter van and drinking?

00:01:08.000 You're not even allowed to be drunk in the back seat of your own car.

00:01:12.000 Yeah, I believe if you have a bed, it's considered a domicile.

00:01:17.000 That's what I've been told.

00:01:19.000 I'm not a legal expert, but my understanding is that the front two seats are considered the vehicle, but beyond that, in the back where you have the bed and all the stuff, that's considered your house.

00:01:32.000 So a warrant to search is the same as someone coming into your house.

00:01:38.000 Oh.

00:01:38.000 Yeah.

00:01:39.000 Because I know a dude who got in trouble because he was drunk in the backseat of his car because he knew he was drunk and so he's like, I'm not fucking driving.

00:01:47.000 I'm just going to sleep it off.

00:01:48.000 And he laid down the backseat of his car and the cops knocked on the door and he opened up the door and he said, yeah, I'm drunk and I'm sleeping off and they arrested him. 1.00

00:01:56.000 That's bullshit. 1.00

00:01:57.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:01:58.000 Well, you know.

00:02:01.000 Some cops, they feel like they have to make a certain number of arrests.

00:02:06.000 Some places have quotas.

00:02:09.000 I've always thought that was so strange.

00:02:11.000 What happens if no one commits crimes?

00:02:13.000 What do they do about the quotas?

00:02:15.000 Do they just make up crimes?

00:02:16.000 And how do they fill those prisons that are, you know, dependent upon 98% occupancy rate? 0.99

00:02:22.000 Yeah, they just assume that there's going to be a certain amount of people that fuck up. 0.70

00:02:26.000 Like, what happens if something happens? 0.91

00:02:29.000 I mean, I don't know what it would be other than a mass consumption of mushrooms across the entire population.

00:02:38.000 Oh, if people just stop breaking laws?

00:02:38.000 Yeah, people just stop.

00:02:40.000 They'll just pass laws. 0.93

00:02:41.000 I mean, every one of us breaks several laws every day.

00:02:44.000 Right?

00:02:44.000 Like, there are laws we don't even know exist that we're breaking.

00:02:47.000 Like, what kind of laws do you think?

00:02:49.000 Oh, God.

00:02:50.000 I read an article about this years ago.

00:02:55.000 I'd be hard-pressed to give you examples right now, but I'm sure there are financial laws, and we're all cheating on our taxes.

00:03:01.000 Right?

00:03:02.000 Not me.

00:03:03.000 Not me.

00:03:03.000 But everyone I know except for Joe.

00:03:06.000 Well, I hand mine off to accountants.

00:03:09.000 I don't handle that at all.

00:03:10.000 But I mean, cutting corners.

00:03:12.000 You know, we're all cutting corners.

00:03:14.000 I ran two yellow lights on my way here, I'm sure.

00:03:17.000 Oh! 0.60

00:03:18.000 I probably, you know, it's four miles per hour over the speed limit.

00:03:21.000 So that's how they get you.

00:03:22.000 Yeah, I mean...

00:03:23.000 What about autonomous vehicles?

00:03:25.000 Yeah.

00:03:26.000 Once that kicks into gear, that's going to be real interesting when no one's ever breaking the speed limit.

00:03:30.000 What do they do?

00:03:30.000 What is this, Jamie?

00:03:32.000 Six laws you broke without realizing it?

00:03:34.000 There you go.

00:03:34.000 Jamie, you're the best, man.

00:03:36.000 Cracked.com always has great articles like this.

00:03:39.000 So what does it say?

00:03:40.000 What do we got here?

00:03:41.000 Connecting to unsecure Wi-Fi networks?

00:03:43.000 That's a law?

00:03:44.000 What?

00:03:45.000 What?

00:03:46.000 There you go.

00:03:46.000 So if you go to Starbucks and it's an unsecure or the airport, that's...

00:03:49.000 There you go.

00:03:50.000 Those are open for that purpose, but like if someone, your neighbor leaves theirs on open, I think that's what it's saying right here.

00:03:56.000 Oh, why don't do that?

00:03:58.000 Wi-Fi squatting.

00:03:59.000 What about every time you update some software and you click agree, I have read and agree to this? 1.00

00:04:06.000 You didn't read that shit. 1.00

00:04:07.000 Nobody reads it. 0.99

00:04:08.000 One of the things that Snowden talked about yesterday, about the terms and conditions that you accept.

00:04:15.000 And who knows what's in there that then you're not complying with.

00:04:19.000 Well, you'd have to have a lawyer go over every piece of it and then a lot of it is open to interpretation and they can change it at a moment's notice.

00:04:26.000 One of the things that you see in terms and conditions is they have the ability to change it without notice.

00:04:33.000 Sam Harris had a great podcast with this guy who was an expert in data collection.

00:04:39.000 He was talking about what's actually happening now is that there's a commodity.

00:04:44.000 That commodity is data.

00:04:46.000 And we didn't know it was a commodity.

00:04:48.000 And then all of a sudden these companies like Facebook and Google made billions and billions of dollars off of this commodity that we didn't even know we were giving up.

00:04:56.000 Yeah.

00:04:57.000 Yeah.

00:05:20.000 Right.

00:05:43.000 Well, you think about even, you know, that goes back to William Randolph Hearst, you know, saying like, you know, I'll give you the war.

00:05:52.000 You know, you give me the war, I'll sell the papers and get the public behind it because it's good business.

00:05:58.000 Yeah.

00:05:59.000 Yeah.

00:06:00.000 It's an interesting world, isn't it?

00:06:02.000 Were you talking about Tristan Harris?

00:06:04.000 Was that the guy on Sam Harris' podcast?

00:06:07.000 The ethicist?

00:06:07.000 I do not know.

00:06:09.000 I don't remember.

00:06:09.000 I heard him on Sam Harris' podcast.

00:06:13.000 I think he has a PhD in computer science and philosophy, and he worked at Google as their in-house professor.

00:06:23.000 There's no such job.

00:06:24.000 Don't be evil.

00:06:25.000 Exactly.

00:06:26.000 They stopped having that.

00:06:27.000 Don't be evil doesn't exist anymore.

00:06:28.000 It doesn't exist.

00:06:29.000 How crazy is that?

00:06:30.000 When you have that and you go, ah, let's get rid of that.

00:06:32.000 Well, you can be evil.

00:06:34.000 It's a weird thing to both have and then weirder still to remove.

00:06:39.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:06:40.000 I want to get a marriage contract that has that clause in it where you can update it without notification.

00:06:46.000 You know, just get that in there.

00:06:47.000 Have your lawyer slip that into the prenup.

00:06:50.000 Yeah, at any moment you could bail.

00:06:51.000 It's fine.

00:06:52.000 Or bail or just change the terms, you know?

00:06:54.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:06:55.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:06:57.000 It's a strange world, Joe.

00:06:59.000 That's why I like being in my van.

00:07:00.000 Keep things simple.

00:07:01.000 Well, humans are strange creatures, you know, and we vary so widely that, you know, trying to make any sense of putting 300 million of us together on an island, essentially.

00:07:13.000 Like, good luck with that.

00:07:15.000 And we vary, not only individually, but I think we vary...

00:07:21.000 We become different creatures in different conditions.

00:07:24.000 So people sometimes will ask me, like, what is human nature?

00:07:28.000 What's your opinion, you know, based on these books?

00:07:30.000 And I say it's like asking, what's the natural state of H2O? Right.

00:07:35.000 Is it boiling?

00:07:35.000 Is it ice?

00:07:36.000 Exactly.

00:07:36.000 What's the pressure?

00:07:38.000 What's the altitude?

00:07:39.000 Don't you feel like you're different people with different people as well?

00:07:43.000 Yeah.

00:07:44.000 Yeah, I had a girlfriend.

00:07:47.000 A Spanish – her mother was French.

00:07:50.000 Her father was Catalan.

00:07:51.000 She was raised in Spain and then lived in Miami when she was 13 to 15 or something.

00:07:56.000 So she spoke English really well, Spanish, French, and Catalan perfectly, right?

00:08:02.000 And we were living in San Francisco.

00:08:05.000 And I was high.

00:08:07.000 I was smoking a joint.

00:08:08.000 She was across the room talking to her mom on the phone in French.

00:08:12.000 And then her mom put her dad on the phone, so she switched to Catalan.

00:08:16.000 And I was just high enough that I noticed, like, wow, that's not – Peggy talking two different languages and then three because she would like put her hand on the phone and say, my mom said no, no, no.

00:08:28.000 So English, French, Catalan.

00:08:30.000 It's not Peggy speaking three languages.

00:08:32.000 Those are three different Peggies.

00:08:34.000 She's different.

00:08:35.000 Her facial tics and her movements and her body position changed depending on the language she was speaking, right?

00:08:43.000 Yeah.

00:08:43.000 And at the time I was in grad school and I thought this is like multiple personality disorder.

00:08:49.000 So I started researching multiple personality and I sort of came up with this idea that language, in her case, because she learned them all when she was very young, She reconfigures the brain in such a way that she actually has different identities in those languages. 0.67

00:09:08.000 And next time we were fucking, I started talking to her in Spanish, and she freaked out. 0.59

00:09:13.000 She got mad at you? 0.98

00:09:14.000 Yeah, like I was a stranger suddenly.

00:09:18.000 I just said, like, you're beautiful or something.

00:09:22.000 She's like, get away from me, you creep. 0.83

00:09:28.000 Because our whole relationship had been in English.

00:09:31.000 Yeah.

00:09:32.000 Yeah, it's strange.

00:09:33.000 So anyway, so I looked into multiple personality disorder.

00:09:36.000 The story has everything.

00:09:38.000 And I don't know if you've checked that out.

00:09:41.000 You remember Stanley Krippner, my buddy who came down and did the podcast with you?

00:09:45.000 He had done a bunch of research on that.

00:09:50.000 There was a movie called Sybil.

00:09:52.000 Yeah, I remember that.

00:09:53.000 He was the consultant for that movie.

00:09:54.000 He was also a consultant for Rosemary's Baby.

00:09:58.000 Remember that?

00:09:58.000 The Possession?

00:10:00.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:10:00.000 Anyway.

00:10:01.000 That's a Polanski movie.

00:10:02.000 I think so, yeah.

00:10:03.000 Yeah, one of the early ones.

00:10:05.000 Yeah.

00:10:07.000 People have, with multiple personality disorder, the research is bizarre.

00:10:13.000 It seems to indicate that people have different physiological states in the different personalities.

00:10:20.000 So you could have a different baseline heart rate, blood pressure, Different baseline heart rate.

00:10:30.000 I don't know how reliable this is, but I even read that some people have different ocular pressure, so that one personality needs reading glasses and another doesn't.

00:10:43.000 What?

00:10:44.000 Yeah.

00:10:44.000 Oh my god.

00:10:45.000 How much is psychosomatic?

00:10:47.000 Like really, how much of who you are and how your body works is dependent upon the way your brain is catching things?

00:10:58.000 Right.

00:10:58.000 Culture, language, personal experience.

00:11:02.000 I mean, it's all your mood, how much you slept the night before, you know, all these things.

00:11:12.000 I think we're good to go.

00:11:29.000 We had a weird conversation, and I think part of the weird conversation was the first conversation that he's had publicly since he's been accused of, you know...

00:11:36.000 Right.

00:11:37.000 But he came back from that.

00:11:38.000 Sexual misconduct.

00:11:39.000 Yeah.

00:11:39.000 Well, he was...

00:11:40.000 You know, they found him innocent, according to whatever internal...

00:11:44.000 Right.

00:11:45.000 ...investigation they had, you know, when they were doing his television show...

00:11:48.000 Right.

00:11:50.000 ...planetarium.

00:11:51.000 But it's still...

00:11:53.000 Even if...

00:11:54.000 Even if he's proven innocent, you've got the weight of...

00:11:59.000 Who knows how many people that think you're a creep now.

00:12:02.000 Right.

00:12:02.000 And he's carrying that around because he was always thought of as being this jovial, really sweet, nice guy.

00:12:07.000 So he's a little tense anyway.

00:12:08.000 That's why I start out admitting I'm a creep.

00:12:11.000 It's good. 0.99

00:12:12.000 Ladies and gentlemen, I am a fucking creep. 1.00

00:12:14.000 You can't shame Charlie Sheen. 1.00

00:12:16.000 Let's take it from there.

00:12:16.000 You cannot shame Charlie Sheen.

00:12:18.000 But we had this conversation about gravity, and it was weird.

00:12:22.000 It was like I was arguing with him, but I wasn't arguing.

00:12:25.000 I was like, what causes it?

00:12:29.000 And he's like, we know!

00:12:31.000 Like, he went into this whole thing.

00:12:32.000 We know what it is.

00:12:34.000 We know how to measure it.

00:12:35.000 That's good enough for me!

00:12:37.000 Yeah.

00:12:37.000 It was a very tense conversation.

00:12:40.000 That's interesting.

00:12:40.000 Yeah.

00:12:41.000 Because it is a faith-based thing there, you know?

00:12:43.000 Like, he's right.

00:12:44.000 They know how to measure it.

00:12:45.000 But we also know how to measure placebo.

00:12:48.000 Right. 0.96

00:12:48.000 And we don't know how the fuck that works. 0.96

00:12:50.000 We know that hypnosis, people can have open heart surgery under hypnosis or have limbs amputated or I think? 0.97

00:13:17.000 Prehistoric populations, hypnotic ability would be adaptive because a lot of the healing rituals were keying into placebo response.

00:13:30.000 So if we have a certain ritual, if you're susceptible to – you believe in that, like voodoo.

00:13:36.000 There's a voodoo death. 1.00

00:13:38.000 People die when a spell is cast or a curse because they believe it.

00:13:42.000 If you don't believe it, it doesn't happen.

00:13:44.000 So it happens the opposite direction as well with healing.

00:13:47.000 So his idea is that that would have been a very adaptive characteristic in prehistoric societies, whereas in contemporary societies it's maladaptive because you're more susceptible to advertising or you're easier to manipulate.

00:14:03.000 Yeah.

00:14:04.000 So I – yeah, I've – when I was in grad school, I had some professors who worked with hypnosis and I studied it a bit along the same – around the same time I was looking at multiple personality disorder.

00:14:18.000 Because I was real interested in this question of how the brain and the body interact.

00:14:24.000 There's all this research showing that people with the same condition in hospitals, exactly the same age, same prognosis and all that.

00:14:34.000 They heal significantly faster if their hospital window looks out on trees as opposed to looks out at another building.

00:14:42.000 Something like that.

00:14:43.000 Just looking at something like nature keys the body into some sort of energy that helps it to heal.

00:14:51.000 Completely makes sense.

00:14:53.000 I've met people with multiple personalities.

00:14:55.000 Well, Roseanne.

00:14:55.000 Roseanne's got...

00:14:56.000 Doesn't she?

00:14:57.000 Make sure that's true.

00:14:59.000 I know another one that's a weird one is the football player Herschel Walker.

00:15:03.000 I think he had trauma-induced multiple personality disorders.

00:15:06.000 Wow.

00:15:07.000 Does she?

00:15:08.000 There's an article that says Bill Maher reminds us she does, and then Roseanne says she doesn't.

00:15:13.000 Yeah, I think she does.

00:15:16.000 And then 2001 says having seven personalities is tough, her saying it.

00:15:20.000 Well, here's the thing about Roseanne. 0.92

00:15:23.000 I'm saying this for the tenth time, I guess.

00:15:26.000 She was hit by a car when she was 15 and she was put in a mental institute for nine months afterwards She had severe brain damage and she lost her ability to do mathematics and like really scrambled her brain and that is probably the birth of the Roseanne that we know the comedian and That's also the case of Sam Kinison Sam Kinison was also like a pretty normal kid and then he was hit by a car and you know pretty severe brain damage as well and Brain damage,

00:15:55.000 especially has an impact on your ability to be rational and impulsive behavior.

00:16:08.000 People with brain damage a lot of times get very impulsive.

00:16:11.000 It varies so widely.

00:16:13.000 It's what happens to you dependent upon what kind of trauma, where the trauma is, what part of your brain.

00:16:20.000 But when they said it about Herschel Walker, I was always confused.

00:16:23.000 I wonder if it was from football, like football trauma, or was it personal trauma, like, you know, abuse?

00:16:29.000 Yeah, people with – are diagnosed with multiple personality disorder, if I remember correctly, almost always were severely abused as kids.

00:16:39.000 You know, in fact, the rationale is that they develop the alternate personalities as a way of escaping a reality that's intolerable.

00:16:50.000 Makes sense.

00:16:51.000 Yeah.

00:16:51.000 Yeah, I mean, look, people do weird things with horrible memories.

00:16:55.000 You know, they bury them to the point where they don't even really have access to them anymore.

00:16:59.000 Yeah.

00:16:59.000 Sexual abuse, some traumatic events when you're young.

00:17:03.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:17:04.000 But the fucking human brain and the way it adapts and molds to things is so bizarre. 1.00

00:17:08.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:17:09.000 Yeah, there's an anecdote that is in this book, Civilized to Death.

00:17:13.000 Notice that segue.

00:17:14.000 Oh, good segue to the book. 1.00

00:17:16.000 Pull that bitch over here. 1.00

00:17:19.000 By the way, the art is done by a guy who listens to my podcast. 1.00

00:17:23.000 It's really...

00:17:24.000 It looks like the art by a guy who watches your podcast.

00:17:29.000 Cheeseburger, a chimp wearing a cheeseburger with a nice suit on. 1.00

00:17:32.000 Yeah, he's got an iPhone.

00:17:35.000 Oh yeah, the story.

00:17:36.000 So there's a species of grasshopper in North Africa.

00:17:43.000 That, you know, they hang out.

00:17:46.000 They're grasshoppers.

00:17:47.000 They're dispersed.

00:17:48.000 They eat grass.

00:17:49.000 They chill, right?

00:17:50.000 Rains come.

00:17:51.000 The grasslands expand.

00:17:53.000 Grasshopper population increases.

00:17:55.000 Then the rains stop.

00:17:56.000 The grasslands contract to the point where the density of the grasshoppers triggers I'm going to go.

00:18:29.000 And they swarm.

00:18:31.000 Locus.

00:18:49.000 I was reminded of this when you said people are so different and the H2O thing. 0.97

00:18:55.000 We're not only different as individuals in the same context, we change completely given the context we're in.

00:19:02.000 So the focus of this book is that hunter-gatherers were essentially a different sort of animal.

00:19:07.000 They were essentially, you know, the parallel is with the grasshoppers and now we're swarming.

00:19:12.000 Now we're a different kind of animal even though our DNA is the same.

00:19:16.000 Well, that completely makes sense.

00:19:17.000 I mean, people that live in small towns are so different than people that live in cities.

00:19:21.000 Yeah.

00:19:21.000 It's so rare that you find someone who has a small town sensibility in Manhattan.

00:19:25.000 Yeah, they get chewed up.

00:19:27.000 Yeah.

00:19:28.000 Right.

00:19:28.000 Literally.

00:19:29.000 Yeah, literally.

00:19:30.000 Yeah.

00:19:33.000 The locust thing is amazing.

00:19:34.000 Have you ever read the accounts of the settlers in the pioneer days making their way across the country and dealing with these swarms of locusts and really not having any idea what to do with them and how to handle it?

00:19:48.000 Eat them!

00:19:49.000 Yeah, you can.

00:19:49.000 The Native Americans ate them.

00:19:51.000 That's probably a real good move, right?

00:19:53.000 That's one of the things that people think is probably an excellent solution to some of the issues that people have with meat.

00:20:01.000 Because a lot of people don't have any problem killing bugs, but they wouldn't want to kill a lamb.

00:20:06.000 Right.

00:20:07.000 But you can have cricket protein.

00:20:09.000 We call it microagriculture.

00:20:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:20:12.000 Cricket protein is apparently very healthy.

00:20:14.000 I've eaten crickets.

00:20:15.000 Yeah, I have too.

00:20:16.000 In Thailand?

00:20:17.000 I've had them in Mexico.

00:20:18.000 Oh, yeah.

00:20:24.000 Where was it?

00:20:27.000 Punta Mita?

00:20:28.000 Yeah, I think it was down there.

00:20:30.000 Puerto Vallarta?

00:20:31.000 Yeah.

00:20:31.000 And they had a bowl in the resort when we walked into the hotel room.

00:20:35.000 Like mints? 0.99

00:20:36.000 Yeah, they had sliced mangoes, and then they had fucking crickets. 0.99

00:20:40.000 And I was like, alright, I'll try that. 0.99

00:20:41.000 I hosted Fear Factor.

00:20:42.000 There's a restaurant here in LA that I was at just a couple weeks ago that has all sorts of crickets and grasshoppers.

00:20:48.000 Really?

00:20:48.000 What's it called?

00:20:49.000 It's a Mexican place.

00:20:51.000 They specialize in mole.

00:20:54.000 I don't remember what it's called.

00:20:55.000 A good Mexican place? 1.00

00:20:56.000 It's really good.

00:20:57.000 Isn't it weird that there's a lot of great Mexican food in LA, but it's like your basic burrito joints and taco joints.

00:21:05.000 It's not like gourmet Mexican food.

00:21:07.000 There's very few gourmet Mexican places.

00:21:09.000 Is that it right there?

00:21:10.000 Yeah, that's it.

00:21:11.000 That's right.

00:21:12.000 I couldn't remember the name.

00:21:16.000 Guelaguetza.

00:21:17.000 Is that how you say it?

00:21:18.000 Have you been there?

00:21:18.000 No, I just, I know the word.

00:21:20.000 It's like a, I don't know if it means party, but it's a celebration down in the Oaxaca. 0.99

00:21:24.000 Damn. 0.99

00:21:25.000 Oaxaca. 1.00

00:21:26.000 Serving up insects.

00:21:27.000 Yeah, check it out.

00:21:29.000 It's a good place.

00:21:30.000 I really, the mole's fantastic.

00:21:31.000 Where is that at?

00:21:32.000 What part of LA? On Olympic.

00:21:34.000 Olympic.

00:21:35.000 Oh, okay.

00:21:35.000 Deep in the heart of Texas.

00:21:37.000 Bam.

00:21:37.000 Beautiful.

00:21:39.000 Yeah.

00:21:40.000 Mole.

00:21:40.000 I love mole.

00:21:41.000 And let's face it, shrimp, lobster, that's just bugs.

00:21:44.000 Those are just big sea bugs. 0.97

00:21:45.000 Well, we found that out on Fear Factor because people that are allergic to shellfish are also allergic to roaches.

00:21:50.000 Ah.

00:21:51.000 Yeah, we found that out the hard way.

00:21:54.000 A lawsuit?

00:21:55.000 No, no.

00:21:56.000 The dude was allergic to shellfish and he had to eat roaches for this thing and they wound up having to give him an adrenaline shot.

00:22:02.000 Oh, yeah.

00:22:04.000 EpiPen.

00:22:04.000 Yeah, he was seizing up a little bit.

00:22:07.000 That's not good.

00:22:07.000 Your windpipe starts constricting.

00:22:09.000 Yeah.

00:22:11.000 I'm not allergic to anything as far as I know.

00:22:13.000 Congratulations.

00:22:13.000 I'm very happy.

00:22:14.000 Me too.

00:22:15.000 Yeah, that's a bummer, man. 0.83

00:22:17.000 Allergies are a bummer, especially freaking peanuts.

00:22:19.000 I've heard peanut allergies are so bad that people will ask you to not eat peanuts on a plane with someone who has a peanut allergy.

00:22:27.000 Like some people's peanut allergy is so severe that even like the dust of you chewing peanuts on a plane next to them can get them sick. 0.92

00:22:37.000 And it's interesting to think about the state of consciousness and how that affects allergies because apparently – and again, I'm always cautious about saying shit on the show because there's so many people listening.

00:22:49.000 So caveat, it's been a long time since I read the research.

00:22:52.000 But if I remember correctly, under hypnosis, a lot of people with allergies no longer – in fact, I remember the research – Yeah, it was a setup where the person could see.

00:23:06.000 So like you and I are talking across the table and there's a mirror behind me.

00:23:11.000 And in the mirror, in your peripheral vision, you see roses.

00:23:17.000 And you're allergic to roses.

00:23:19.000 You'll have a reaction.

00:23:21.000 Even though they're plastic roses.

00:23:24.000 Yeah.

00:23:24.000 So it sort of enters the consciousness and triggers the response subconsciously.

00:23:31.000 Yeah, I think that's how it was.

00:23:33.000 And then with people under hypnosis, like Andrew Weil wrote about this cat allergies.

00:23:39.000 He was on MDMA, I think, and he was playing with a cat and had no reaction to it.

00:23:44.000 Yeah.

00:23:45.000 Look at this.

00:23:46.000 Self-hypnosis squelches allergies.

00:23:49.000 I need a Jamie in my life.

00:23:51.000 You do. 1.00

00:23:51.000 Damn. 1.00

00:23:52.000 Picturing ski slopes reduces hay fever symptoms by a third. 1.00

00:23:56.000 Look at that.

00:23:56.000 Picturing ski slopes.

00:23:58.000 How weird.

00:23:59.000 What a weird...

00:24:00.000 Oh, I'm skiing...

00:24:02.000 Well, because you're picturing a place where there's no pollen, right?

00:24:06.000 You could probably picture the surface of Mars, too.

00:24:08.000 Yeah, well, if you've got a needle, you get a shot, and the doctor's about to give you the shot, and you start tensing up.

00:24:15.000 You feel the anticipation.

00:24:17.000 Your heart starts quickening, and you get really weirded out by it. 0.99

00:24:21.000 But then you get the shot, and you're like, oh, that wasn't shit. 0.95

00:24:23.000 Why was I freaking out like that? 0.98

00:24:25.000 But it's the psychosomatic aspect of it.

00:24:28.000 I think that's what life is, basically, in a nutshell.

00:24:32.000 It's an analogy.

00:24:33.000 We're always worried about things.

00:24:35.000 We spend so much time worrying about things, most of which never occur.

00:24:39.000 And even the ones that do occur, it's like, wow, whatever.

00:24:43.000 Like death.

00:24:44.000 I'm not worried about death.

00:24:46.000 Dying, maybe, if it takes too long.

00:24:49.000 But if it takes an hour or a day to die, that's a tiny fraction of your life. 1.00

00:24:54.000 Who gives a shit? 0.98

00:24:55.000 You're not a guy that really spends a lot of time working on fitness or health or any of those. 0.99

00:25:01.000 That's a nice way to put it.

00:25:02.000 Well, you enjoyed that article that I wrote back in the day. 1.00

00:25:04.000 Lazy fuck is what you're trying to say. 1.00

00:25:06.000 I love you. 1.00

00:25:08.000 I take it as a compliment.

00:25:10.000 I got better things to do than work out, Joe.

00:25:13.000 I get it.

00:25:14.000 You enjoyed that article that I wrote a long time ago.

00:25:17.000 I did.

00:25:17.000 The sand.

00:25:18.000 Yeah, human body is like a sandcastle.

00:25:19.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:25:20.000 You can make it beautiful, but it's not going to last.

00:25:21.000 Yeah.

00:25:22.000 And you know that going in.

00:25:24.000 You know that way.

00:25:25.000 Yeah.

00:25:25.000 And I mean, I've got this idea for a book, if I keep writing books, which is sort of a self-help book, but it's a parody of self-help books.

00:25:34.000 And so it'll be calling attention to the way so much of what we do to try to be healthy is actually counterproductive because we stress, especially Americans.

00:25:44.000 Everything's work.

00:25:45.000 Everything turns into work.

00:25:47.000 And Americans are very suspicious of pleasure.

00:25:50.000 We're taught that pleasure is evil and dangerous and all this.

00:25:55.000 I've never bought that line of reasoning.

00:25:57.000 I've always felt like what feels good generally is good.

00:26:01.000 Right.

00:26:02.000 There's a reason it feels good, you know?

00:26:04.000 Now that can get corrupted by advertising and false messaging from a sick society that tells you, you know, sit on the sofa and drink beer and eat bags of chips all day.

00:26:15.000 But if you get beyond that and you can actually hear the voice of your body, I think if your body is telling you to, you know, stay in bed because it's a rainy cold day, Now, I know this is totally against your perspective on life, 0.87

00:26:31.000 where you're like, you've got to tame the inner bitch, you've got to get out of bed, you've got to work out, it doesn't matter. 1.00

00:26:36.000 I'm like, no, man, I'm staying in bed. 0.99

00:26:39.000 You go do what you need to do.

00:26:41.000 I used to climb mountains with this friend of mine in Spain, and he was like you. 1.00

00:26:45.000 He was a fucking billy goat. 0.98

00:26:47.000 And I'd go with him until I got to a nice spot with a nice view. 0.99

00:26:52.000 I'd be like, dude, I'll be here when you come down.

00:26:56.000 Taking a nap.

00:26:57.000 Got a bottle of wine and some cheese.

00:27:00.000 I appreciate that, too.

00:27:02.000 I'm not married to my perspective, but I think I have a very peculiar biology that demands a certain amount of exertion.

00:27:11.000 Yeah, sure.

00:27:13.000 And I have friends like that. 0.98

00:27:14.000 I mean, you know, I have lots of friends like, man, if I don't run every day, I feel like shit. 0.96

00:27:20.000 Running's very addictive, though. 0.92

00:27:21.000 I feel fine.

00:27:22.000 Yeah, you get used to it.

00:27:23.000 There's a high that you get from running that's really interesting.

00:27:26.000 And any long-term cardiovascular exercise, you get this.

00:27:30.000 It's like we did, you know, last October, we did the Sober October thing where we had this crazy fitness challenge.

00:27:36.000 So all of us were doing cardio like five hours a day.

00:27:39.000 Really crazy amounts of cardio.

00:27:41.000 And one of the things that Tom Segura and I both agreed on is like...

00:27:45.000 The amount of internal chatter dissipates to zero.

00:27:50.000 You have no anxiety.

00:27:52.000 I didn't realize I had any anxiety until that happened.

00:27:57.000 And then I was like, God, it goes to zero.

00:27:59.000 It goes to nothing.

00:28:00.000 When you do five hours on a treadmill or just running, when it's done, man, there's this peace of mind that comes with that.

00:28:12.000 This release of endorphins that's incredibly addictive because that feeling is so pleasing.

00:28:18.000 It doesn't feel good to get out of bed and to just push when you don't want to, but the end result feels amazing.

00:28:29.000 It does feel really good.

00:28:30.000 I wonder if there's any research...

00:28:34.000 Looking into whether that effect happens universally.

00:28:39.000 Because I've worked out.

00:28:41.000 I've run.

00:28:41.000 There were times in my life I've never gotten a runner's high.

00:28:46.000 Never.

00:28:47.000 I get my teeth hurt, my knees hurt, my back hurts.

00:28:51.000 I feel my brain bouncing around in my skull. 0.99

00:28:55.000 You know, I'm half a mile into it and I'm like, fuck this. 0.99

00:28:58.000 This doesn't feel good. 0.99

00:29:00.000 You have to get in shape first.

00:29:02.000 That's a big part of it.

00:29:03.000 It's not that simple.

00:29:05.000 It's like, for me, I never really got into running.

00:29:11.000 The first time I really did any serious running, my friend Cam Haynes had a 5k, which is, what is that, three miles?

00:29:19.000 Something like that?

00:29:20.000 Something like that, yeah.

00:29:21.000 And I didn't run at all in preparation for it.

00:29:24.000 And when I ran the 5K, I was like, Jesus Christ, this is hard.

00:29:28.000 Like, I didn't have – there was no good feeling at all. 0.99

00:29:31.000 You know, it's running on concrete and shit. 1.00

00:29:33.000 In Vegas, it's gross. 1.00

00:29:35.000 Oh, in Vegas. 0.69

00:29:36.000 You're smelling sin in the air.

00:29:39.000 But when it was over, I was like, okay, obviously, I'm in good shape, but not in good running shape at all, so I should probably get in shape for this.

00:29:47.000 So then I started running.

00:29:48.000 And then when I got into running, and particularly running hills, then I started feeling it once I kind of got in that kind of shape.

00:29:56.000 And then when the workouts are over, I run all the time now.

00:30:02.000 And when it's over, I just have this, ah.

00:30:05.000 Yeah, you and Marshall are doing your thing.

00:30:07.000 It's great. 0.96

00:30:08.000 Yeah, I fucking love it. 0.94

00:30:09.000 And he loves it, too. 0.99

00:30:10.000 They had a crazy bonding experience with that dog, you know, because he loves it, you know?

00:30:15.000 I got my dad a golden retriever years ago when my dad was like, you know, maybe it's genetic because he was pretty lazy.

00:30:23.000 He'd come home from work and he'd sit in front of the TV and drink vodka.

00:30:28.000 Yeah.

00:30:42.000 Bad sign right there.

00:30:45.000 And then he never went for walks.

00:30:48.000 Stoli just sat next to him and got fat.

00:30:51.000 Oh, poor Stoli. 0.94

00:30:52.000 I know.

00:30:53.000 I know.

00:30:54.000 Well, it's common.

00:30:55.000 Doesn't always work.

00:30:56.000 No.

00:30:57.000 Yeah, it helps me get going because I know that he needs exercise.

00:31:01.000 Yeah.

00:31:01.000 It does.

00:31:02.000 But it helps me too.

00:31:03.000 And it's fun.

00:31:04.000 I talk to him when we run.

00:31:06.000 I guess we're running.

00:31:08.000 I have little conversations with him.

00:31:10.000 Yeah.

00:31:11.000 Cool.

00:31:11.000 Fun.

00:31:12.000 He's not judging you, right? 0.99

00:31:14.000 I don't give a fuck. 1.00

00:31:15.000 I could be fat. 1.00

00:31:16.000 I could be covered in shit. 1.00

00:31:17.000 He'd probably prefer that. 1.00

00:31:19.000 Make you more interesting.

00:31:21.000 Yeah.

00:31:21.000 But the runner's high is a real thing.

00:31:24.000 But you have to achieve some level of fitness before I think it kicks in.

00:31:29.000 Yeah, closest I've come to that is the sex high.

00:31:34.000 Post.

00:31:35.000 No, during.

00:31:36.000 Maybe there's like a workout element to that.

00:31:40.000 Well, sex, when you're really aroused and you're really attracted to the person, like in the middle of the act of it, it's like you're on a drug.

00:31:47.000 It can be like this incredible elevation where you're high, basically.

00:31:55.000 You're high in this crazy aroused state.

00:31:58.000 And you have that hyper-focus that you're talking about removing anxiety.

00:32:04.000 You're not thinking about anything other than where you are.

00:32:09.000 It's one of those beautiful moments.

00:32:12.000 I had a guy on my podcast recently who's like a legend in the world of high-risk stuff.

00:32:19.000 He's a base jumper and he flies those wingsuits.

00:32:22.000 What's his name?

00:32:24.000 What is his name?

00:32:25.000 He lives in Bozeman, Montana.

00:32:27.000 Andy Stump?

00:32:28.000 No.

00:32:29.000 That's crazy, because my friend Andy Stump lives in Montana, too.

00:32:31.000 I'm sure he knows him. 0.99

00:32:32.000 He holds the world record for that wingsuit shit. 1.00

00:32:36.000 Ben Stewart, could it be? 0.99

00:32:37.000 Man, I don't remember.

00:32:39.000 I'm sure Andy knows him.

00:32:40.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:32:40.000 He lives in Bozeman.

00:32:41.000 And this guy's 44. He's been doing it a long time.

00:32:44.000 It's about how old Andy is.

00:32:46.000 Andy's probably a little younger than that.

00:32:46.000 They probably fly together.

00:32:48.000 Yeah, really nice guy.

00:32:49.000 But it was interesting how here's this guy who's doing this super high-risk adrenaline stuff.

00:32:58.000 Like, he just had done this thing where he's paragliding with another dude on the Brooks Range in Alaska.

00:33:04.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

00:33:05.000 Like, just the two of them, and they'd land and camp.

00:33:08.000 Oh, my God.

00:33:09.000 You know, nowhere, bears everywhere, like, forget it.

00:33:12.000 And then they'd get up the next morning, jump off the mountain, and keep going. 1.00

00:33:15.000 It's like, fuck. 1.00

00:33:17.000 Fuck. 1.00

00:33:17.000 But this guy was so calm. 1.00

00:33:20.000 He was just like, it was like talking to Buddha or something.

00:33:23.000 He was just like so centered and relaxed and focused.

00:33:28.000 It was beautiful.

00:33:29.000 We had a really enjoyable conversation from my perspective anyway.

00:33:34.000 Because I tend to be kind of scattered and, you know, tangentially speaking, right?

00:33:38.000 I'm going all over the place.

00:33:40.000 Whereas he was just like, it was just really centered and balanced.

00:33:45.000 It was nice. 0.99

00:33:45.000 I guess you have to have laser focus if you're going to fuck around with that kind of stuff. 0.99

00:33:48.000 That's it. 0.99

00:33:49.000 You don't want to...

00:33:50.000 Is that the jam?

00:33:51.000 Yeah, Jeff Shapiro.

00:33:52.000 That's him.

00:33:52.000 Look at him.

00:33:53.000 Yeah, thanks, Jamie.

00:33:54.000 Yeah, and that's his falcon.

00:33:56.000 He's got this falcon as well.

00:33:58.000 Right when I was starting to love him.

00:33:59.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:34:02.000 He's got a fucking falcon. 1.00

00:34:03.000 He's all into flight, man. 1.00

00:34:05.000 Yeah, I guess so.

00:34:07.000 Yeah, he's a cool dude.

00:34:09.000 Those wingsuits, man.

00:34:11.000 I mean, talk about risk versus reward. 1.00

00:34:13.000 Fuck. 1.00

00:34:13.000 He told his story. 1.00

00:34:15.000 He was like, he said, yeah, you know, I've had the experience a few times of, you know, standing on this toes over the cliff 3,000 feet up or whatever and fist bump with your buddy and he goes and says, see you, you know, see you down there.

00:34:28.000 He goes and then you hear it.

00:34:33.000 Yeah, he's gone.

00:34:34.000 Like, I've carried dudes' bodies out of the woods, you know.

00:34:38.000 I've done that too many times. 1.00

00:34:40.000 He was talking about, you know, these different approaches and how the young guys tend to be more, fuck it, man. 0.99

00:34:46.000 They think they're indestructible. 0.98

00:34:47.000 And at his age, he's seen enough, he's carried enough bodies, he's lost enough friends that he's not thinking that way anymore, you know.

00:34:55.000 And he doesn't want to be around guys who are.

00:34:58.000 Right. 1.00

00:35:20.000 I start off, I'm a pussy. 1.00

00:35:21.000 I'm a creep. 1.00

00:35:22.000 I'm a pussy. 1.00

00:35:23.000 You know, like, you got no leverage. 1.00

00:35:26.000 I'm lazy.

00:35:27.000 You know what fascinates me, man?

00:35:29.000 Mob mentality.

00:35:30.000 Mob mentality like, you know, if there's like a riot, like physical violence, in a way that you would never, like, a lot of people who would never think about hitting someone When people are hitting people all over the place, you'll just dive in.

00:35:45.000 People will dive in and kick people and punch people.

00:35:48.000 It's very weird.

00:35:49.000 Like bar fights, you see?

00:35:50.000 I've never seen one in real life.

00:35:52.000 Oh, I've seen a bunch of them.

00:35:54.000 Does that happen?

00:35:55.000 People just randomly punching each other?

00:35:56.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:57.000 People just punch people.

00:35:59.000 I've seen some pretty chaotic brawls.

00:36:04.000 But there's a strange feeling in the air.

00:36:07.000 It's almost like a smell.

00:36:10.000 Jim, you're nodding.

00:36:11.000 I was at a riot, and earlier in the day, we were like, the hornet's nest is going to explode tonight.

00:36:18.000 We kind of felt it.

00:36:19.000 What was the premise?

00:36:20.000 It was after the Ohio State-Michigan game in 2002. The Ohio State-Michigan game, I know you don't really understand the football thing of it, but there, it's a huge day, big event.

00:36:30.000 We won in a very close game, undefeated season for Ohio State, so they're headed to the national championship.

00:36:35.000 This then meant sofas on fire in the street for like the next couple hours.

00:36:40.000 And then shortly as the night exploded, there was a couple bonfires in the middle of the street.

00:36:47.000 We saw that on the news, so we went close to see it because we were a couple blocks away.

00:36:50.000 As we got close, we heard the knee-knocker bullets getting fired out, so everybody scattered.

00:36:54.000 Were those rubber bullets?

00:36:56.000 Yeah.

00:36:56.000 Everyone went from one street on campus to three other streets.

00:37:00.000 Then it started up again.

00:37:03.000 The street I was on, seven cars got flipped over, I think, and lit on fire.

00:37:07.000 So people started trying to move their car so they didn't lose it because their college kids don't have any money, whatever.

00:37:12.000 A lot of those people got caught on videos, expelled from school, whatever, but...

00:37:19.000 Wow.

00:37:32.000 It lasted for a couple of hours.

00:37:33.000 No one died or anything like that. 0.83

00:37:34.000 There wasn't a lot of violence, but just 12 to 15 cars got fucked up. 0.97

00:37:38.000 The thing is, someone could have died.

00:37:41.000 What's really crazy about those chaotic moments of violence is that when something's in the air and you see a big brawl going on, it's like everything seems...

00:37:51.000 It seems like civilization's flimsy, like for that brief moment.

00:37:55.000 I think there's a natural thing that kicks in with people that sort of allows them to act in war and allows them to act like when the tribe is invaded.

00:38:08.000 Like when, you know, when a neighboring army invades your village, there's some thing that kicks in where you, like, recognize this is violence and you just look to swing on anybody that's around you.

00:38:19.000 And you see it in these brawls when you see some sort of a riot.

00:38:25.000 Like, you see these people and you're like, I guarantee you that guy's never punched anybody before in his life.

00:38:28.000 And he's running over trying to punch people.

00:38:30.000 And everybody's punching everybody.

00:38:31.000 And people are swinging. 1.00

00:38:33.000 You see it in these fucking... 0.99

00:38:35.000 Whenever you see, like... 1.00

00:38:37.000 Like an Antifa versus Proud Boys type thing.

00:38:42.000 You know what I mean?

00:38:43.000 Like these left versus right Trump supporters versus Bernie bros.

00:38:48.000 You see chaos.

00:38:49.000 You're talking about online or in the street?

00:38:55.000 Tribal.

00:38:56.000 Tribal moments where it feels like it could break out into violence at any time is a smell in the air.

00:39:02.000 It changes the atmosphere of the air and you feel like you've got to protect yourself.

00:39:07.000 Anything can happen at any moment.

00:39:09.000 From people that you would never think of as being violent.

00:39:12.000 You would never assume violence.

00:39:15.000 That these folks would be violent to you.

00:39:17.000 They don't look scary.

00:39:18.000 They're not scary-looking people, but everybody just seems to get out.

00:39:21.000 It's like a thing happens, like the locust.

00:39:24.000 Right.

00:39:24.000 Like a little trigger happens with people.

00:39:26.000 Dormant behavior patterns.

00:39:28.000 Yeah.

00:39:29.000 I've often wondered about what that is, because I've been around it a bunch of times.

00:39:34.000 Well, I was around it once, big time in high school.

00:39:38.000 When I was in high school, there was a kid who lived in this really nice house, and he'd moved into the neighborhood for the first time, and he decided he was going to have a party to meet a bunch of people, make friends.

00:39:48.000 And people started robbing his house, and a brawl broke out.

00:39:52.000 I'll never forget it.

00:39:53.000 I was there at the event horizon of the brawl.

00:39:57.000 I was there the moment it happened.

00:39:59.000 A girl did something to a guy. 1.00

00:40:01.000 I can't remember what she did.

00:40:02.000 I can't remember if she threw a drink in his face or if she hit him.

00:40:05.000 I don't remember.

00:40:06.000 But I remember him hitting her.

00:40:08.000 Because I remember him pulling his hand back. 0.96

00:40:11.000 I'm like, oh my god, he's going to punch her in the face. 0.98

00:40:14.000 And boom! 0.98

00:40:14.000 He punched her right... 0.98

00:40:16.000 I mean, like, he knew how to punch, too.

00:40:18.000 It was like a real punch to the face.

00:40:19.000 The girl goes unconscious.

00:40:21.000 And then, you know, she falls back.

00:40:23.000 And then chaos.

00:40:24.000 I mean, people diving on top of people, piles of people out in the yard.

00:40:30.000 Everybody's fighting everybody.

00:40:31.000 You're just ducking.

00:40:32.000 It's like a movie.

00:40:33.000 And almost everyone has no idea what they're even fighting about.

00:40:37.000 No, I saw the moment it happened.

00:40:39.000 I was there.

00:40:40.000 God, I wish I could remember. 0.91

00:40:41.000 Memory is so sucky. 0.91

00:40:43.000 You know, it really is. 0.82

00:40:44.000 I have like this blurry slide, but I do remember that fist hitting her face.

00:40:49.000 Because I remember he went like this.

00:40:51.000 I was like, oh no, he knows how to punch.

00:40:53.000 And he went BANG! He just cracked her in the face. 1.00

00:40:56.000 And she just, like, her head went back and she went out cold.

00:40:59.000 And I think somebody caught her.

00:41:01.000 I think someone caught her as she was going down.

00:41:03.000 And then it was just melee.

00:41:06.000 But I remember the feeling in the air.

00:41:08.000 Because that was the first time I think I'd ever been around anything like that.

00:41:10.000 I was like, whoa!

00:41:12.000 It was piles of kids fighting on everyone's team.

00:41:14.000 Were you fighting?

00:41:15.000 No, I was running away from everybody. 0.99

00:41:17.000 I was like, I gotta get the fuck out of here.

00:41:19.000 I mean, I always did martial arts, but I was very, very rarely involved in any...

00:41:25.000 Extracurricular altercations. 0.97

00:41:27.000 So I just got the fuck out of there. 0.96

00:41:28.000 And the other time was when I was a security guard for Great Woods. 0.95

00:41:33.000 Great Woods is a place in Mansfield, Massachusetts, was like this concert venue.

00:41:37.000 And Neil Young was playing, of all people.

00:41:40.000 And there's a lawn area.

00:41:42.000 I've slept in his bed.

00:41:43.000 Have you really?

00:41:44.000 Yo, I can't tell that story. 1.00

00:41:45.000 Shit. 1.00

00:41:45.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

00:41:46.000 Yeah, never mind. 1.00

00:41:47.000 But I haven't.

00:41:47.000 I haven't.

00:41:49.000 So it's an amphitheater.

00:41:51.000 So there's this covered, seated area.

00:41:53.000 And then behind the covered, seated area is this gigantic lawn area.

00:41:57.000 And I don't remember if it was cold out.

00:41:59.000 I remember what the deal was.

00:42:00.000 But people started lighting fires on the lawn, like little bonfires.

00:42:05.000 And then chaos broke out.

00:42:09.000 The security people started trying to put out the fires and tell people to stop.

00:42:13.000 And then people started hitting people and just crazy.

00:42:17.000 And I always kept a hoodie with me.

00:42:19.000 Because I was getting like $9 an hour or something like that.

00:42:22.000 I'm not going to get shot for $9 an hour or beat up. 1.00

00:42:25.000 Fuck this. 1.00

00:42:25.000 So as soon as shit went crazy, I put my zip up. 1.00

00:42:28.000 I put my hoodie on. 0.98

00:42:28.000 I'm like, I quit. 0.98

00:42:29.000 I quit the job.

00:42:31.000 Nice. 0.93

00:42:31.000 And as I was leaving, as I was quitting, I was watching people just beat the fuck out of people. 0.93

00:42:36.000 And I was like dodging my way through this thing. 1.00

00:42:38.000 I'm like, get out of here with this stupid fucking job. 1.00

00:42:41.000 You got to know when to leave, man. 1.00

00:42:43.000 But it was a feeling. 1.00

00:42:44.000 It was like, oh, there's that fucking smell in the air. 0.99

00:42:46.000 Like anything can happen at any moment now. 0.99

00:42:48.000 Right.

00:42:49.000 Yeah, I mean, you think about these dudes who, you know, come back from war with PTSD. You know, again, it's this consciousness context dependent behavior where, you know, they do things in that situation and then they come back to the normal world.

00:43:05.000 It's like coming out of a dream.

00:43:07.000 And it's hard to believe you did that.

00:43:10.000 It's hard to believe that was you.

00:43:12.000 And how do you integrate that into your life with your wife and your kids and mom and dad and the neighbors? 0.99

00:43:18.000 I mean, those poor guys, they're dealing with some real heavy shit there. 0.96

00:43:22.000 And no one tells you how to do that either. 0.97

00:43:23.000 No.

00:43:24.000 No one knows how to do it.

00:43:25.000 Right.

00:43:25.000 Yeah.

00:43:26.000 And no one gives a shit, right? 0.98

00:43:27.000 Like, once they get there, you know, get you to go do what they want to do, then, you know, it's hard to even get, you know, is what, a two-year wait for any sort of psychological counseling? 0.97

00:43:38.000 Is it really?

00:43:38.000 Yeah.

00:43:39.000 It depends on the state, but at least that.

00:43:41.000 I had a guy on the podcast...

00:43:43.000 Actually, the one Jamie showed, it was right before the wingsuit dude, was a dude who'd been in Iraq, and then he came back and worked as a SWAT team commander.

00:43:56.000 So he was doing all sorts of really heavy stuff, and then he just got out.

00:44:02.000 And now he's living off-grid in Idaho, raising three little boys with his wife.

00:44:07.000 And he's a former Mormon, so he sort of talked about how Mormonism taught him to respect authority and do what he was told.

00:44:17.000 And that just fed right into his experience in the Army and with the police.

00:44:22.000 But man, I have so much compassion for those guys.

00:44:26.000 Who get out and like look back and say, what did I do, you know?

00:44:31.000 Yeah.

00:44:31.000 Who was that guy?

00:44:32.000 And how they sort of like stop that, like stop the thought process when they come back into civilization.

00:44:43.000 Yeah.

00:44:43.000 But still have the memories.

00:44:45.000 And how do you trust yourself?

00:44:47.000 Right.

00:44:47.000 You know, that I'm not going to hurt anyone else, you know?

00:44:52.000 Yeah, it's hard.

00:44:53.000 And yeah, like we were just saying, they get very little support.

00:45:00.000 They're sent off to do this horrible stuff and then they come back and it's like, okay, no, don't do that anymore.

00:45:06.000 Yeah, the incremental progress that we achieve as a civilization is, it's amazing, but also so frustratingly slow that no one, I mean, no one I've ever talked to thinks there's going to be a moment in our lifetime where there's no war.

00:45:21.000 No one.

00:45:21.000 No one thinks there's going to be a moment in our lifetime where there's no murder.

00:45:25.000 No one thinks there's going to be a moment in our lifetime where there's no rape, where we just figure it out.

00:45:31.000 Like, I'm pretty confident if it was just the three of us forever, no one would rape anybody, no one would murder anybody.

00:45:37.000 Just the three of us?

00:45:37.000 Just the three of us.

00:45:38.000 I sure hope not.

00:45:40.000 But you know what I'm saying?

00:45:41.000 Because I'm probably the victim here.

00:45:43.000 But you know what I'm saying?

00:45:44.000 Like, what number of people, how many people do they have to be before one of those things becomes a possibility?

00:45:52.000 If you have a group of close friends, a group of close friends who are good communicators and good, honest, healthy, friendly people can live together.

00:46:02.000 And, you know, whatever issues you might have with someone not doing the dishes or someone forgetting to put back your lawnmower or whatever the fuck it is, you could work that out.

00:46:10.000 It's no big deal.

00:46:11.000 Like, what's the number of people?

00:46:14.000 150. Okay.

00:46:16.000 That's Dunbar's number.

00:46:17.000 Dunbar's number, yeah.

00:46:18.000 I'm sure you've heard about that.

00:46:19.000 Yeah, I mean, that might really be it.

00:46:21.000 That might really be what we're programmed for.

00:46:22.000 Well, that's where hunter-gatherer groups always splinter.

00:46:26.000 They never get beyond that.

00:46:28.000 And I think that's why, because, you know, a hunter-gatherer group, which is egalitarian and sharing and cooperative and all that, by necessity, right, because that's how our ancestors survived, is by taking care of each other, mitigating risk, you need reputational damage.

00:46:46.000 And if everyone doesn't know everyone, reputational damage is no longer effective.

00:46:52.000 So if you, let's say you go and you're a good hunter and you kill an antelope and then you don't share it and you just keep it for yourself, that's not going to go over real well with a hunter-gatherer group.

00:47:05.000 You're going to be ridiculed, chastised, maybe expelled from the group, maybe have a hunting accident and die.

00:47:14.000 Because that hoarding, selfish behavior is extremely taboo in a hunter-gatherer society.

00:47:20.000 Whereas, you know, you look at our society where reputational damage is no longer functional outside of your group of friends.

00:47:29.000 As long as you're good to your friends, your golfing buddies, you can screw the rest of the world.

00:47:34.000 You can not pay your contractors for years and become president.

00:47:40.000 Right.

00:47:40.000 You know, everyone.

00:47:41.000 Yeah.

00:47:41.000 Everyone in New York.

00:47:42.000 I worked in real estate in New York in the 80s.

00:47:45.000 Everyone knew who that guy was and what he was up to.

00:47:48.000 And you couldn't trust him. 1.00

00:47:49.000 He was full of shit and he ripped everybody off. 1.00

00:47:53.000 But that's how business works in New York. 1.00

00:47:55.000 Even the company I was working for is really interesting to see how your leverage...

00:48:12.000 I think it's 150 is the cutoff for how many people we can keep track of, I think.

00:48:21.000 Dunbar's number has proved to be pretty accurate.

00:48:24.000 Well, it seems to be what we evolved to sort of be accustomed to, right?

00:48:31.000 Well, that's the neocortex.

00:48:33.000 You know, Dunbar was looking at the brain anatomy of different primates, and by looking at the proportion of a neocortex to the rest of the brain, he predicted the maximum social size of those primates, of each of the species.

00:48:47.000 And that's how he came to the estimate of 150 for humans.

00:48:52.000 And then they went and looked at people.

00:48:54.000 They did, you know, data collection.

00:48:56.000 That's so crazy.

00:48:57.000 Yeah.

00:48:58.000 The physical size of something like that.

00:49:00.000 There's a direct correlation. 0.99

00:49:02.000 Like the direct correlation between the size of a primate's testicles and the amount of promiscuous females in the area. 1.00

00:49:08.000 You've read Sex It's On, Joe. 0.99

00:49:09.000 Yes, I have!

00:49:12.000 Finally!

00:49:13.000 I read it a long time ago, man.

00:49:15.000 I read it a long time ago.

00:49:16.000 I'm thinking I might do...

00:49:18.000 I did the audiobook of Civilized to Death, which I really enjoyed that process.

00:49:23.000 I'm thinking I might do a 10th anniversary director's cut audiobook of Sex at Dawn.

00:49:28.000 Did you do the audio version?

00:49:29.000 No.

00:49:29.000 Who did?

00:49:31.000 Oh, yuck.

00:49:32.000 Yeah.

00:49:32.000 Oh, yuck.

00:49:33.000 My friend Steve Rinella, he wrote a book on Buffalo, the American Buffalo, you know, just the history of Buffalo in this country.

00:49:39.000 And someone else wrote it, and he finally got the rights back, and he did it himself now.

00:49:44.000 Yeah, that's what I'm going to do.

00:49:46.000 Because the person who read it was like a soap opera actor.

00:49:50.000 Right.

00:49:50.000 Had no connection to the material at all.

00:49:53.000 And in Sex at Dawn, there are a lot of jokes and sort of wry asides and stuff.

00:49:59.000 And the people who read it, they don't get it.

00:50:01.000 They didn't get the humor.

00:50:02.000 So it's just the straight ahead.

00:50:04.000 It's as if someone took your comedy material and just read it in a monotone.

00:50:10.000 That's called criticizing me in a blog.

00:50:14.000 That's what they do when someone takes it and just puts it in quotes like that.

00:50:18.000 Yeah, good point.

00:50:19.000 There's no delivery there.

00:50:21.000 There's no voice.

00:50:22.000 Yeah.

00:50:23.000 Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

00:50:24.000 And I think I'm going to, I don't know if Steve did this or not, but I think I'm going to, as I said, a director's cut.

00:50:30.000 So I'll, you know, when I read a paragraph that reminds me of something, or, you know, what I thought when I wrote that, or, you know, my dad really wanted me to include that phrase or, you know, whatever little asides.

00:50:41.000 So there'll be some commentary as well, I think.

00:50:43.000 Yeah, that's a good move.

00:50:45.000 David Goggins had a really interesting way he did his.

00:50:48.000 He did his book where he actually didn't read it.

00:50:51.000 He had a friend read it.

00:50:53.000 And then in between paragraphs, they discussed all the different events that happened that he talked about.

00:51:00.000 And he gave other details that weren't in the book.

00:51:02.000 Right.

00:51:02.000 So the audiobook is essentially like an audiobook slash podcast.

00:51:07.000 Right.

00:51:07.000 Yeah.

00:51:08.000 So you're not just getting a reading of the book, you're getting bonus material as well.

00:51:14.000 Yeah.

00:51:15.000 It's really good.

00:51:16.000 It's really good.

00:51:17.000 I mean, there's no rules with that kind of stuff.

00:51:21.000 It's your book.

00:51:22.000 You can kind of do whatever you want.

00:51:24.000 You could even talk about how you feel now about that chapter.

00:51:29.000 Sure.

00:51:29.000 You could always do that.

00:51:30.000 What I would change.

00:51:30.000 Yeah.

00:51:32.000 Or how you feel about the material itself and how you interact with the facts that you uncovered versus before.

00:51:39.000 I don't listen to audiobooks much, but in the van last summer I listened to the Keith Richards autobiography.

00:51:48.000 Oh, yeah?

00:51:48.000 Yeah, it was interesting.

00:51:50.000 He reads like the beginning, and then this actor who sounds like him, you know, has the same accent, reads most of it.

00:51:59.000 And then Johnny Depp reads a couple of chapters.

00:52:02.000 And then Keith comes back at the end.

00:52:04.000 Well, that was one of the weird things about Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, was Johnny Depp reading Hunter Thompson.

00:52:10.000 And then...

00:52:12.000 You know, honestly did a better job of reading Hunter Thompson than Hunter Thompson has done reading Hunter Thompson.

00:52:20.000 You know, there's that famous speech about...

00:52:23.000 Being there at the end of the 60s and watching the waves pull back.

00:52:28.000 Sure.

00:52:28.000 You know that?

00:52:29.000 It crested at the Rocky Mountains and then rolled back into the sea.

00:52:33.000 That's a fantastic speech, but the way Johnny Depp said it was better.

00:52:38.000 Yeah.

00:52:38.000 Have you ever seen Breakfast with Hunter?

00:52:40.000 Yes.

00:52:41.000 Do you remember?

00:52:42.000 He freaks out about that particular passage.

00:52:45.000 Who was it?

00:52:47.000 Alex...

00:52:47.000 Well, they were going to animate it.

00:52:48.000 They were going to animate it. 1.00

00:52:49.000 Yeah, and he fucking pulls out the gun and kicks him off the property and totally loses his shit. 1.00

00:52:54.000 You're going to take the best thing I've ever written and make it a fucking cartoon! 1.00

00:52:58.000 Yeah, it's amazing. 0.99

00:53:00.000 That guy used to go off.

00:53:02.000 He was so crazy.

00:53:03.000 Did you ever meet him?

00:53:04.000 No, I'm angry.

00:53:05.000 Angry that I never met him.

00:53:07.000 Yeah.

00:53:08.000 Yeah.

00:53:08.000 I would have loved to have met him.

00:53:10.000 Yeah, and there were probably a few years there where you could have.

00:53:12.000 I could have.

00:53:13.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:53:14.000 Fuck. 1.00

00:53:14.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:53:15.000 There's a few people.

00:53:16.000 Dick Gregory, he's one that I really wish I met.

00:53:19.000 I would have loved to talk to him about what it was like to show the Kennedy assassination footage on Geraldo Rivera like 10 plus years after the fact.

00:53:28.000 You know, the Zapruder film?

00:53:29.000 Yeah.

00:53:30.000 He introduces Zapruder film to the world.

00:53:32.000 Really?

00:53:33.000 Yeah.

00:53:33.000 Dick Gregory's like a black comedian.

00:53:36.000 Yeah, slash activist. 0.57

00:53:37.000 Right, yeah.

00:53:38.000 I remember him.

00:53:39.000 Yeah, he brought the Zapruder film to Geraldo Rivera and they played the Kennedy assassination on television. 0.98

00:53:49.000 Oh shit, it hadn't been seen publicly. 0.94

00:53:51.000 No, not only had it not been seen publicly, I believe Time Magazine owned it. 0.99

00:53:56.000 I think they bought the rights to it.

00:53:57.000 See if that's true.

00:53:58.000 And they shelved it for, I want to say, 12 years.

00:54:04.000 It was like 75 when it aired on television.

00:54:09.000 Somewhere in that range.

00:54:11.000 And the assassination was 63. Was it 63?

00:54:16.000 I think it was 63. I was born in 62. Yeah, I guess it was right after I was born.

00:54:22.000 And so no one had seen his head go back into the left until that footage.

00:54:27.000 And then people were like, wait, what the...

00:54:29.000 Really?

00:54:31.000 Which doesn't necessarily...

00:54:32.000 So how did Dick Gregory get the rights?

00:54:34.000 I do not remember.

00:54:36.000 Huh.

00:54:36.000 I think...

00:54:37.000 I don't remember.

00:54:38.000 Who else?

00:54:39.000 Have you met Werner Herzog?

00:54:41.000 I have not.

00:54:41.000 Are you into him?

00:54:42.000 Yes.

00:54:43.000 He's a character.

00:54:44.000 Grisly Man is one of my all-time favorite movies.

00:54:47.000 Me too.

00:54:48.000 It's one of the best unintentional comedies ever, but I don't think it's particularly unintentional. 0.94

00:54:53.000 There's a fucking moment in that film where the sheriff, when the sheriff's talking about the body and carrying the body off in bags, he's like, what did you think? 0.97

00:55:02.000 Well, first time I heard about it, I thought he was retarded. 1.00

00:55:05.000 And then the kid just has a smash cut to the sheriff's face, and I'm fucking howling. 0.99

00:55:10.000 I'm howling laughing. 0.97

00:55:12.000 And I'm like, this guy did this on purpose.

00:55:14.000 There's so many cuts in this movie that are so humorous.

00:55:17.000 I gotta think that, and Werner Herzog, have you ever heard him on Eric Weinstein's podcast?

00:55:23.000 No.

00:55:23.000 Brilliant guy.

00:55:24.000 Oh, yeah.

00:55:25.000 Really interesting, intense guy.

00:55:27.000 Guy.

00:55:28.000 And very dark sense of humor.

00:55:31.000 Oh, yeah.

00:55:31.000 Yeah.

00:55:31.000 Well, that's why I thought, I was like, this motherfucker did this on purpose.

00:55:35.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:55:35.000 He made this a comedy. 0.99

00:55:37.000 So, do you think that, what was the name of the character?

00:55:40.000 Timothy Treadwell?

00:55:41.000 Yes.

00:55:42.000 Yeah.

00:55:42.000 Yes.

00:55:43.000 When I watched that movie, my feeling was this guy is closeted gay dude. 0.99

00:55:49.000 Yes. 0.99

00:55:49.000 100%. 0.99

00:55:49.000 Yeah, you felt that too. 0.99

00:55:51.000 No question.

00:55:51.000 He brings up, if I was gay, it would be easy, but I'm not gay.

00:55:55.000 Right.

00:55:56.000 That's what he says.

00:55:57.000 Because you say, why can't I find a girl? 0.98

00:55:59.000 You know, he's like walking through the woods with this like lispy gay way of talking. 0.98

00:56:04.000 Yeah.

00:56:04.000 And he's talking to the – for people who don't know what this documentary is about, it's about a guy named Timothy Treadwell.

00:56:09.000 And Timothy Treadwell was – Well, I guess you could say he was a bear expert, but not really. 0.98

00:56:14.000 Because the real bear experts were like, this guy doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. 0.99

00:56:18.000 He should get out of there. 0.98

00:56:19.000 What he's doing, he doesn't need to protect these bears.

00:56:22.000 He's pretending that he's protecting these bears.

00:56:25.000 He's living with them.

00:56:26.000 I think there was a certain element of it that was suicide by bear.

00:56:29.000 I really do.

00:56:30.000 And he was walking through the woods, holding this camcorder, getting film, going, if I was gay, it would be so easy, but I'm not gay.

00:56:37.000 Right, talking to the camcorder as his only friend, because he was out there alone for...

00:56:40.000 Months at a time.

00:56:41.000 Yeah, every summer.

00:56:42.000 But no one who's not gay says, well, if I was gay, it would be really easy.

00:56:46.000 I've said that a lot, Joe.

00:56:48.000 But unless you're being funny with a friend. 0.97

00:56:50.000 Like, well, if I was gay, I would just hook up with some dudes.

00:56:53.000 But he's saying it like, why can't I find a girl? 0.98

00:56:56.000 If I was gay, it would be so easy.

00:56:57.000 No, it wouldn't. 1.00

00:56:58.000 You're still living in the woods with monsters.

00:56:59.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:57:00.000 You're going to get a bunch of gay guys? 0.99

00:57:01.000 Gay guys, they want to be in Boys Town. 1.00

00:57:03.000 I think they should remake the movie in a bear bar. 0.97

00:57:07.000 On Broadway.

00:57:09.000 That would be hilarious.

00:57:11.000 That would be hilarious.

00:57:13.000 Grizzly man.

00:57:13.000 Yeah, instead of doing it with the forest and actual grizzly bears.

00:57:18.000 In the West Village.

00:57:19.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.63

00:57:20.000 If I was gay, it'd be easy. 0.95

00:57:21.000 There's bears everywhere. 0.91

00:57:24.000 I went to a bear bar with Andrew Sullivan and Dan Savage.

00:57:29.000 There's actually a bear bar?

00:57:30.000 Oh, there are lots of bear bars.

00:57:32.000 They call them bear bars?

00:57:33.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:57:34.000 And for people who don't know what we're talking about, bears are big, hairy gay guys. 1.00

00:57:39.000 Think Tom Segura and Bert Kreischer. 0.98

00:57:41.000 They do a podcast called Two Bears, One Cave.

00:57:44.000 Oh, do they?

00:57:45.000 That's hilarious.

00:57:46.000 But neither one of them is gay. 0.99

00:57:48.000 But if they were gay, they'd be bears. 1.00

00:57:51.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:57:52.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:57:53.000 Bears.

00:57:54.000 Dan Savage is a trip.

00:57:55.000 I've had him on the podcast.

00:57:56.000 Yeah, I know.

00:57:57.000 I saw that.

00:57:57.000 That was interesting.

00:57:58.000 He's an interesting guy. 0.99

00:57:59.000 He's super smart and funny as shit. 0.97

00:58:03.000 And he's armed with nothing but a sense of humor and a great intellect and a big heart. 0.99

00:58:09.000 And honesty.

00:58:10.000 Yeah.

00:58:11.000 He's changed the world.

00:58:13.000 He's saved who knows how many lives.

00:58:16.000 You know, he's beautiful.

00:58:17.000 I really like Dan a lot.

00:58:18.000 Yeah, when someone can just be themselves, again, you know, that's who he is.

00:58:23.000 Timothy Treadwell, if he had listened to Dan Savage, everything would be different. 1.00

00:58:27.000 Well, that leap, man, that coming out leap, fuck, it's got to be so hard for people. 0.99

00:58:32.000 I know several guys that are closeted and it's torturous. 1.00

00:58:37.000 Yeah.

00:58:37.000 Torturous to see, and one of them, you know, I've talked to him and was like, just come out.

00:58:42.000 No one gives a fuck. 0.99

00:58:44.000 We don't care. 0.99

00:58:45.000 No one cares.

00:58:46.000 It'll be a giant relief.

00:58:48.000 They worry about, especially actors, they worry about their careers.

00:58:53.000 Yeah.

00:58:55.000 I mean, when your career is more important than the integrity of yourself.

00:59:01.000 But I don't think it hurts.

00:59:02.000 I don't believe it.

00:59:03.000 I don't believe it.

00:59:04.000 The only thing that would hurt with actors is leading man roles.

00:59:08.000 Yeah, Rock Hudson kind of guy. 0.97

00:59:09.000 Yeah, that's one thing that's fucking real. 1.00

00:59:12.000 Like, I don't know if Tom Cruise is gay, but that's always been this stupid rumor. 1.00

00:59:18.000 Let's assume it's true. 0.99

00:59:19.000 If he did come out of the closet, man, nobody wants to go see a movie where he's a leading man, he's got a wife and kids. 1.00

00:59:25.000 You'd be like, that guy's sucking dick! 1.00

00:59:27.000 Like, he was... 1.00

00:59:28.000 He would never buy into it.

00:59:30.000 A gay woman, like Jodie Foster, could easily play a straight woman in a movie and no one would care. 1.00

00:59:38.000 It would be fine. 1.00

00:59:39.000 That is the fucking glass ceiling in Hollywood. 0.99

00:59:43.000 It's one of them. 1.00

00:59:44.000 When a gay man comes out of the closet, those roles, John Travolta, whoever it would be, I don't know if he's gay either, but if he was, that's where the buck stops. 0.98

00:59:57.000 You cannot be the leading man who's the married guy with kids or the hot man who's in a sexual relationship with a woman if we know that you're having sex with men. 0.97

01:00:07.000 But then it's funny, right? 0.99

01:00:08.000 We can watch straight actors pretend to be gay like Burkback Mountain. 0.89

01:00:13.000 That's no problem. 0.89

01:00:14.000 Sure.

01:00:15.000 No problem.

01:00:16.000 Yeah.

01:00:16.000 Very strange.

01:00:17.000 Yeah.

01:00:18.000 That's one of the last open prejudices.

01:00:23.000 That we all accept, because no one's been able to bridge that gap.

01:00:27.000 Except, what's that dude's name? 0.99

01:00:30.000 That fucking, he's got three names. 1.00

01:00:32.000 Little skinny guy. 1.00

01:00:33.000 Used to be on a sitcom, How I Met Your Mother.

01:00:36.000 Neil Patrick Harris.

01:00:37.000 Yeah, that guy.

01:00:38.000 Doogie Howser.

01:00:39.000 Yeah, that guy. 0.96

01:00:40.000 He's openly gay, and didn't he play a womanizer on a sitcom? 0.94

01:00:43.000 I think on How I Met Your Mother. 0.95

01:00:44.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:00:45.000 I've never watched it, but...

01:00:46.000 But the thing about sitcoms is, they're like plays. 0.98

01:00:50.000 Those kind of sitcoms in front of an audience, they're horseshit.

01:00:53.000 It's not like a movie. 0.99

01:00:55.000 It's horseshit. 0.99

01:00:57.000 You know it's horseshit. 1.00

01:00:58.000 Everyone knows it's horseshit. 0.99

01:00:59.000 Anything with a laugh track, I'm very suspicious. 0.99

01:01:01.000 Or studio audience.

01:01:03.000 Like Happy Days.

01:01:04.000 I love Henry Winkler, but The Fonz. 0.98

01:01:07.000 That's horseshit. 0.98

01:01:07.000 No, wait. 0.98

01:01:08.000 Is Henry Winkler gay?

01:01:09.000 No, I don't think so.

01:01:10.000 Maybe.

01:01:10.000 I always assumed he was.

01:01:12.000 Because he was so overcompensating with The Fonz.

01:01:15.000 I think that was the character.

01:01:16.000 You meet him in real life, he is the nicest guy I've ever met.

01:01:19.000 He's so friendly.

01:01:20.000 He's in Barry now, right?

01:01:21.000 Is he?

01:01:22.000 Yeah, he plays an acting coach in Barry.

01:01:24.000 I haven't seen it.

01:01:25.000 I hear it's Barry.

01:01:26.000 I've never seen Barry.

01:01:27.000 He's a fly fisherman.

01:01:29.000 He wrote a book on fly fishing. 0.99

01:01:31.000 And I think the book's called, I Never Met an Idiot on the River. 0.98

01:01:35.000 Because there's something about fly fishing. 0.99

01:01:38.000 Fly fishing is a very weird pursuit.

01:01:41.000 Because a lot of it is catch and release.

01:01:44.000 Yeah.

01:01:44.000 Which, as a person who enjoys the outdoors and enjoys eating fish that I catch, I'm very torn on that activity.

01:01:54.000 That catch and release activity.

01:01:56.000 I know it's fun and I have done it.

01:01:58.000 I get it.

01:01:59.000 But it's weird.

01:02:01.000 It's weird.

01:02:02.000 You're sticking a hook through an animal's face.

01:02:04.000 I was going to say, it traumatizes the fish.

01:02:05.000 It's got to.

01:02:06.000 How many of them die?

01:02:09.000 Well, fly fishing, very few.

01:02:11.000 Because you're dealing with barbless hooks, for the most part.

01:02:14.000 So it just goes into this cartilage in their mouth they don't really feel, and then allegedly don't really feel.

01:02:20.000 I don't know if they feel it.

01:02:21.000 And then, you know, they pull it out and they're fine.

01:02:23.000 But there's some catch and release, especially with like three-pronged barbed hooks where the animals definitely die.

01:02:29.000 You know, they get caught in their gills and they start bleeding from their gills and then you have to release them anyway.

01:02:35.000 Because, you know, in some places the regulation is catch and release.

01:02:38.000 But people love doing it.

01:02:39.000 They find like peace, like drifting a fly past this area where the fish is lying dormant.

01:02:47.000 And then you pull the fly and then the fish grabs it and then you got him.

01:02:50.000 Oh boy.

01:02:50.000 But you're tapping into this sort of primal reward system that you have in your DNA that makes you want to catch these fish, but then you're letting it go.

01:02:59.000 But it gives you a reason to be out by the river, out in the morning.

01:03:03.000 Normally it's morning or dusk when the flies are landing.

01:03:06.000 I've been hunting since the last time you and I spoke.

01:03:10.000 Yeah, bow hunting.

01:03:12.000 You went bow hunting?

01:03:12.000 Yeah, yeah, on Hawaii, Big Island.

01:03:16.000 Oh, didn't you go with Kyle Kingsbury and Ben Greenfield and all those guys?

01:03:21.000 That was a deer, Axis deer trip to Molokai.

01:03:24.000 You have a bow?

01:03:25.000 I do.

01:03:26.000 How often do you practice?

01:03:28.000 Since I went hunting, not much.

01:03:30.000 But before I went, every day.

01:03:32.000 Yeah, I was into it.

01:03:33.000 Did you have a coach?

01:03:35.000 Nope.

01:03:35.000 I had some friends who, you know, helped me out.

01:03:39.000 And I watched some, you know, Cam, your buddy.

01:03:43.000 Yeah, I watched some of his videos.

01:03:46.000 But yeah, it was an interesting experience.

01:03:49.000 So first I went on that trip with Peter Atiyah and Ben Greenfield, like all these podcast human optimization guys.

01:04:00.000 Who set that whole thing up?

01:04:02.000 My buddy Kyle Tierman, he's a big wave surfer.

01:04:05.000 He spends a lot of time in Hawaii and he knows a lot of people there.

01:04:10.000 Jeff Healy, I think.

01:04:12.000 Big surfer dude.

01:04:13.000 Anyway, so he knew all these people and I guess...

01:04:17.000 And Aubrey and some other, those guys sort of asked him to hook them up with a trip.

01:04:22.000 And so he put it all together.

01:04:24.000 And then at the last minute, I think Aubrey couldn't go, I think because you were coming down to Austin and he wanted to coordinate with you or something.

01:04:33.000 So they said, yo, Chris, if you want to go, it's all paid for.

01:04:38.000 And I'm like, helicopters?

01:04:40.000 Hawaii? 1.00

01:04:41.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

01:04:41.000 So did you have to practice leading up to that, or were you already shooting a bow? 1.00

01:04:45.000 I was already shooting because Kyle Tierman and I had already planned a trip for like three weeks after that.

01:04:56.000 So I was already practicing for that, which was going to be a pig hunting trip on the Big Island.

01:05:02.000 But then I went on this deer thing, but mainly I went on the deer thing just because it was an opportunity to fly around in helicopters and see Molokai, which is amazing.

01:05:11.000 But I didn't hunt on that, because I didn't...

01:05:14.000 Honestly, I didn't want to hurt anything.

01:05:18.000 You didn't feel like you were competent enough with it?

01:05:21.000 Or you didn't want to do it at all?

01:05:23.000 Well, the deer are farther away, and they're much harder.

01:05:26.000 They're much more aware, and socking them is a lot harder.

01:05:30.000 So I just basically hung out and had a good time.

01:05:33.000 They're so hard.

01:05:35.000 Yeah.

01:05:35.000 That animal, axis deer, is an animal that evolved to get away from tigers.

01:05:40.000 Right.

01:05:41.000 They're the fastest thing I've ever hunted, by far.

01:05:44.000 Super alert.

01:05:44.000 I hunted them with Cam Haynes.

01:05:46.000 On Molokai?

01:05:47.000 No, on Lanai and John Dudley just before you guys went.

01:05:53.000 And we were there between the time we were there and when we were there the last spring.

01:06:00.000 There was 150 hunters that went there to bow hunt.

01:06:04.000 One was successful.

01:06:05.000 Really?

01:06:06.000 Everyone else pulled out a rifle.

01:06:07.000 Huh. 1.00

01:06:08.000 Everyone else was like, fuck this. 1.00

01:06:10.000 Because you can't get anywhere near those goddamn things without them jumping. 1.00

01:06:14.000 But if you can get your stalking skills down, or you can sneak up on an axis deer and kill one with a bow, holy shit. 1.00

01:06:21.000 That's black belt level stuff. 1.00

01:06:22.000 Well, the dudes I were with, Peter Atiyah, he got two or three, I remember.

01:06:27.000 He's very, very, very into it.

01:06:30.000 He's a super, super smart guy.

01:06:31.000 Yeah, he is.

01:06:32.000 He's cool.

01:06:33.000 I enjoyed hanging with all those dudes.

01:06:35.000 But then the next, you know, three weeks later, we went, Kyle and me and Simon Rex, I don't know if you know him, he's an actor.

01:06:44.000 Slash comedian.

01:06:45.000 Slash comedian.

01:06:46.000 Dirt Nasty.

01:06:46.000 Dirt Nasty rapper.

01:06:47.000 Yeah, he's a good friend of mine.

01:06:49.000 Anyway, we went on this pig hunting trip, and that was interesting.

01:06:54.000 That was...

01:06:56.000 I wanted to have the experience because I'd never hunted.

01:06:59.000 I'd never killed anything.

01:07:00.000 And I eat meat, so I felt like I have this responsibility to have the experience and confront it and all that.

01:07:08.000 And I was actually the first of our group to kill a pig.

01:07:13.000 And it was strange.

01:07:16.000 I didn't feel sad or traumatized.

01:07:20.000 I felt heightened awareness, you know?

01:07:24.000 Like...

01:07:25.000 But I think I might hunt again.

01:07:29.000 I'm moving to Colorado.

01:07:31.000 I just bought land in Colorado.

01:07:32.000 Oh yeah?

01:07:33.000 What part?

01:07:34.000 Sort of south central.

01:07:36.000 It's a tiny little town.

01:07:40.000 Yeah, it's an interesting area there.

01:07:43.000 But anyway, there's a lot of elk hunting there.

01:07:45.000 And I'll probably do some elk hunting with local people.

01:07:49.000 Are you going to do it with a bow again?

01:07:50.000 No, I think I'll use a rifle.

01:07:52.000 Yeah.

01:07:52.000 I think that's the way to go.

01:07:54.000 Yeah.

01:07:54.000 If you're not going to be completely obsessed and do it every day.

01:07:57.000 I'm not.

01:07:58.000 Yeah.

01:07:59.000 Because I don't do that.

01:08:00.000 Yeah.

01:08:01.000 And also, you know, the thing about a bow is, and maybe this is what you're implying here, if you're not really good, the chances of you... 0.99

01:08:10.000 Of an elk running off or a pig running off with an arrow in its ass and dying a slow, horrible death is quite high. 0.98

01:08:17.000 If you hit him with a rifle, high-powered rifle with a scope, you know, and you're in the right range. 1.00

01:08:23.000 You can still wound him, but you're much more competent with a rifle.

01:08:29.000 And it's a better...

01:08:31.000 It's a better meat gathering tool.

01:08:33.000 It's a good way to describe it.

01:08:36.000 And Colorado has, I think, twice as many elk as any other state or country.

01:08:42.000 Colorado is one of the best places in the world to elk hunt.

01:08:45.000 So that's a good spot if you're looking.

01:08:47.000 And also, you're taking a life, you take an elk, that's a lot of meat.

01:08:52.000 I shot this pig, it was about, you know, it was a yearling, I think.

01:08:56.000 It's not a lot of meat on a pig that size. 0.68

01:08:59.000 So, yeah, but it was interesting.

01:09:02.000 Are you living in this van?

01:09:04.000 No, I have an apartment.

01:09:05.000 I still have an apartment in LA, but I'm about to give it up, I think.

01:09:09.000 Just to just be a nomad?

01:09:11.000 Yeah, because, I mean, I was in the van five months, and it's like, okay, I'm paying rent to what?

01:09:17.000 Like, to leave my clothes there, basically.

01:09:19.000 Like, I don't really need to be doing that.

01:09:22.000 No, I admire that sort of nomad sense of life.

01:09:28.000 I don't ever see myself doing it, but there's a romantic aspect to it that's undeniable.

01:09:33.000 Well, your life's different, man.

01:09:34.000 You have kids.

01:09:35.000 You have a life here that you've built over a lot of time.

01:09:40.000 I just got here a few years ago.

01:09:42.000 You're kind of a prisoner to that, though, in a certain way.

01:09:44.000 You're a prisoner to all your obligations.

01:09:49.000 Oh, sure.

01:09:49.000 That's one of the things that's romantic about this nomadic thing that you're doing.

01:09:53.000 It's like...

01:09:54.000 You know, I have to come here.

01:09:55.000 I have a certain amount of podcasts after a week.

01:09:57.000 But you don't, Joe.

01:09:59.000 You don't.

01:09:59.000 I don't.

01:10:00.000 I was thinking that we're talking about the closeted gay actors.

01:10:04.000 What is money worth if you can't buy your freedom with it? 0.64

01:10:09.000 Your freedom to be who you are, right? 0.95

01:10:11.000 As a closeted gay person, right? 0.94

01:10:14.000 Let's say...

01:10:16.000 What is it good for?

01:10:18.000 I mean, that's the first thing.

01:10:20.000 I think with the closeted gay folks, the real problem is the feeling that you're going to be rejected if you come out. 0.99

01:10:24.000 I think that's entirely different than someone who gets wrapped up in jobs.

01:10:30.000 One of the things that I could say about the jobs that I have is that I really do enjoy them.

01:10:34.000 I'm enjoying this conversation.

01:10:36.000 I love talking to people.

01:10:37.000 I love doing stand-up.

01:10:39.000 Love it.

01:10:39.000 And I still enjoy doing the UFC. Those are my three jobs.

01:10:43.000 And I don't do the UFC as much as I used to.

01:10:46.000 Would you do them all if you were making $100,000 a year total?

01:10:52.000 I mean, I certainly obviously could live off $100,000 a year.

01:10:55.000 Yeah.

01:10:55.000 If that's what I made a year.

01:10:57.000 So the money isn't what makes them fun.

01:11:01.000 No.

01:11:01.000 No, no, no.

01:11:01.000 It's the thing itself.

01:11:03.000 Definitely.

01:11:04.000 Well, that's what's made the money.

01:11:06.000 What's made the money is my, I mean, I think, right?

01:11:09.000 I think it's my enjoyment of the things that's made them interesting.

01:11:13.000 Like, one of the things about podcasts, and I think...

01:11:17.000 There is a parallel in stand-up, is that genuine enthusiasm, like real, legitimate enthusiasm, is contagious.

01:11:25.000 And if you're genuinely interested in talking to people, genuinely curious, it's interesting to listen to.

01:11:33.000 Right.

01:11:33.000 And, you know, you do your best to get out of your own way, and you do your best, I do my best, to not be annoying.

01:11:41.000 And I fuck up sometimes.

01:11:43.000 There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. 0.99

01:11:45.000 I'm a human being, and I've done 1,500 of them.

01:11:47.000 But you cop to it when you do, which I think is another thing that's endearing and...

01:11:51.000 I mean, you're a really interesting case, as I'm sure you know.

01:11:54.000 And I've watched you, even since I've known you, like, your profile has moved much closer to mainstream American, you know, popular. 0.69

01:12:04.000 You were mentioned on fucking Saturday Night Live a couple weeks ago. 0.93

01:12:08.000 Yeah, we're. 0.99

01:12:08.000 Right? 0.99

01:12:09.000 You know?

01:12:10.000 And there's some article about Joe, where was it, in Harper's or the New Yorker's?

01:12:14.000 Something recently that I read, like, super mainstream.

01:12:17.000 Mm-hmm.

01:12:18.000 But you're really interesting because you're like this man's man, but you're also vulnerable. 0.99

01:12:25.000 You know, you're also, like, you admit when you fuck up. 0.72

01:12:28.000 Like, you had someone, the Twitter guy on, and you're like, yeah, I wasn't prepared, I fucked it up, and you had him back, and that's cool. 0.97

01:12:35.000 That's...

01:12:36.000 And it's probably, I don't know, is it hard for you to maintain that kind of humility when you're getting all this pressure and opportunities and all this stuff coming at you?

01:12:46.000 No, I don't think so.

01:12:47.000 No, I think that's just being honest.

01:12:50.000 You know, if you've...

01:12:52.000 I mean, I think if I'd stopped... 0.99

01:12:54.000 If I fucked up and I stopped admitting that I was fucking up, it would all go off the rails. 0.99

01:12:58.000 There's no way... 1.00

01:12:59.000 I couldn't maintain who I am.

01:13:01.000 I would be thinking about it all the time.

01:13:02.000 You'd be like... 0.99

01:13:03.000 Back to the closeted gay dude, right? 0.99

01:13:05.000 Yeah, you'd be closeted... 1.00

01:13:06.000 You'd be a bullshit artist. 1.00

01:13:07.000 Yeah, exactly. 1.00

01:13:08.000 Yeah, you'd just be pretending you're cooler than you are.

01:13:10.000 I think part of being a human being is making mistakes.

01:13:15.000 It's a messy thing to be a person, you know?

01:13:19.000 And I mean, I'm also big on forgiveness.

01:13:22.000 And I think you have to be because human beings are fallible and like we're saying, we vary from moment to the next.

01:13:32.000 And to try to hold someone to who they were six months ago or a year ago or five years ago or what they said or what they did and not accept it and hold a grudge To me, that's crazy.

01:13:45.000 Do you want people to do that to you?

01:13:48.000 What kind of life is that?

01:13:49.000 What kind of civilization are we creating where people hold grudges and don't forgive people for things of the past?

01:13:56.000 But you also have to be able to forgive yourself.

01:13:59.000 I struggle with that way more, believe it or not, than I struggle with forgiving other people.

01:14:03.000 I can forgive other people pretty easy, for whatever reason.

01:14:05.000 I've always been able to.

01:14:07.000 So what's the difference?

01:14:09.000 I'm super self-critical, and I have definitely some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder that allows me to get really good at things because I obsess.

01:14:20.000 You know, it's probably unhealthy, but I manage it.

01:14:23.000 But, like, the mania that goes on in my mind, I just figured out a way to put it to use. 0.99

01:14:29.000 It's like, okay, I got this fucking engine. 0.98

01:14:31.000 Like, what do I stick it on? 0.99

01:14:32.000 Let me stick a thing in there, and I could drill a hole with that instead of just having it going, blah! 0.78

01:14:37.000 Which a lot of people do.

01:14:38.000 A lot of people don't find a focus for whatever mania they have going on in their mind.

01:14:42.000 So I've found various things.

01:14:45.000 That's one of the reasons why I don't ever see myself not doing anything.

01:14:49.000 I don't have enough time.

01:14:52.000 That's my issue.

01:14:53.000 There's a lot of things that I love to do that I just don't have the time for.

01:14:57.000 How old are you?

01:14:58.000 52. Do you feel like you're sort of figuring things out?

01:15:03.000 Always.

01:15:04.000 Yeah.

01:15:04.000 I mean, like, I have this sense, 57, I have this sense that, like...

01:15:09.000 Like, I don't know, like, I finally learned to dance and the party's almost over.

01:15:15.000 Yes!

01:15:15.000 You know what I mean?

01:15:18.000 That's a great way to say it!

01:15:20.000 That's hilarious. 0.99

01:15:21.000 It's like, I'm finally figuring this shit out, and I'm almost 60. Well, I remember when I was, like, 26, 25, and when I first came out here, I remember thinking, boy, by the time I'm 52, oh, fucking everything's solved. 0.99

01:15:37.000 There's arbitrary numbers that we have in our head of who you should be at 50 or 60 or whatever the number is. 0.96

01:15:46.000 You're just alive, man.

01:15:47.000 You're just alive.

01:15:48.000 And while you're alive, you better forget about all those numbers.

01:15:51.000 I remember thinking like the year 2000. When the year 2000 comes...

01:15:57.000 Like, what's that gonna be like?

01:15:59.000 Wow, I'm gonna be so old and...

01:16:01.000 Yeah.

01:16:02.000 Dude, it's almost 2020. I know.

01:16:04.000 It's gonna be 2020 in a couple months.

01:16:06.000 That's crazy.

01:16:08.000 That is such a nutty number.

01:16:10.000 That's so crazy.

01:16:12.000 Yeah.

01:16:12.000 Well, that's why I love living in the van, dude.

01:16:15.000 Yeah.

01:16:15.000 I mean, I've...

01:16:16.000 You know, so much has...

01:16:17.000 Since you and I sat...

01:16:19.000 I don't know, a year or so since we've seen each other.

01:16:21.000 Yeah.

01:16:21.000 My dad's died.

01:16:22.000 I'm living in the van.

01:16:24.000 This book's come out.

01:16:25.000 Like, all this stuff's happening.

01:16:26.000 Mm-hmm.

01:16:27.000 But I've spent most of the time sitting by a campfire looking at the stars, you know?

01:16:33.000 The times that I get outside, like when I elk hunt every year, and I spend time, particularly in Utah, in the mountains, the place that we go, it's just, it's cleansing in a way that is so hard to describe.

01:16:48.000 It's so hard to describe what it's like just to be out there in the woods and be in the forest and be with the wild animals.

01:16:56.000 You're home.

01:16:57.000 Yeah.

01:16:58.000 That's what this book's about.

01:16:59.000 I don't mean to push the conversation to the book, but that's why I wrote the book.

01:17:03.000 We are designed by evolution to live.

01:17:06.000 Civilized death.

01:17:07.000 Available now.

01:17:08.000 Available at all your local bookstores near you.

01:17:10.000 And Amazon and all that other stuff.

01:17:12.000 We're designed to live in that world.

01:17:14.000 So that's why it feels so good.

01:17:15.000 That's why golf courses look the way they do. 0.98

01:17:18.000 Even fucking old executives love being out there on the grass and the water and the undulating hills. 0.99

01:17:25.000 It's the African savanna. 0.99

01:17:27.000 Wow.

01:17:28.000 Even when it's manicured, right?

01:17:30.000 It still feels good.

01:17:31.000 It still feels good to be connected to nature.

01:17:34.000 It feels good to be on a lake.

01:17:35.000 Lakes are the best, man.

01:17:37.000 To be able to sit on the dock of a lake.

01:17:39.000 There's a feeling of like...

01:17:41.000 You know, you look out, you see trees.

01:17:43.000 Have you ever been to Coeur d'Alene?

01:17:44.000 Yeah, I was there this summer.

01:17:46.000 I haven't, but a friend of mine has a house there, and I saw a picture of the water, and you look all the way down, like 100 feet deep.

01:17:52.000 Down, you see the bottom, like it's a piece of glass.

01:17:55.000 This is bananas.

01:17:57.000 Yeah, I didn't take a shower for about three months.

01:17:59.000 You must have smelled amazing.

01:18:00.000 I smelled great, because every morning I jumped in a river.

01:18:02.000 Oh.

01:18:04.000 That counts.

01:18:05.000 That counts, though.

01:18:05.000 Oh, yeah.

01:18:06.000 Did you use soap or not?

01:18:07.000 No, I haven't used soap in a decade.

01:18:09.000 Oh, Jesus.

01:18:09.000 But you smell okay.

01:18:10.000 How weird.

01:18:11.000 Yeah.

01:18:13.000 My microbiome is working.

01:18:14.000 It's fine.

01:18:15.000 Well, there's articles that have been written about that by people that say you shouldn't use soap.

01:18:19.000 Yeah.

01:18:20.000 No, a lot of them, because you're disrupting your microbiome.

01:18:23.000 Yeah.

01:18:23.000 I mean, I use deodorant.

01:18:25.000 There's Coeur d'Alene.

01:18:25.000 Yeah.

01:18:26.000 Sandpoint's really nice, too.

01:18:28.000 Idaho's great.

01:18:29.000 Idaho's gorgeous.

01:18:29.000 I love Boise.

01:18:31.000 Yeah, and Montana, Western Montana.

01:18:33.000 Oh, yeah, man.

01:18:34.000 Insane.

01:18:34.000 Yeah.

01:18:35.000 Look how pretty that is, though. 1.00

01:18:36.000 God damn, that lake. 0.99

01:18:38.000 And when you have a boat on a lake, it's like you have a car, but there's no road. 1.00

01:18:43.000 Everything is a road.

01:18:44.000 It's all flat.

01:18:45.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:18:45.000 So you can go wherever the fuck you want. 0.99

01:18:47.000 Same thing with airplanes. 0.99

01:18:48.000 It's amazing what you can do.

01:18:49.000 That's even crazier.

01:18:50.000 You into flying?

01:18:51.000 Well, my friend Bill has a helicopter license.

01:18:56.000 Oh, yeah.

01:18:57.000 Oh, Bill Burr.

01:18:58.000 Yeah.

01:18:59.000 He took me around his helicopter.

01:19:01.000 That's pretty wild.

01:19:01.000 I thought about that.

01:19:02.000 I was like, that might be a cool thing to get into.

01:19:04.000 That's hard.

01:19:06.000 Yeah.

01:19:06.000 He spent a lot of time learning how to fly.

01:19:08.000 And it's expensive.

01:19:10.000 Yeah.

01:19:11.000 But a single-engine airplane, you can – $100,000, you get a decent single-engine airplane, and you can go wherever you want.

01:19:17.000 My uncle has an amphibious plane, so he lands on lakes.

01:19:20.000 Oh, wow.

01:19:21.000 Yeah, and he used to...

01:19:23.000 Could he land on ground, too?

01:19:25.000 Yeah, so that's amphibious.

01:19:26.000 So it has wheels and floats.

01:19:28.000 Does he have to switch things up?

01:19:30.000 Yeah.

01:19:30.000 So you have to change out the...

01:19:32.000 No, no, you just push a button, the wheels retract. 0.99

01:19:34.000 Oh, no shit. 0.99

01:19:35.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:19:36.000 He forgot once and flipped it.

01:19:37.000 Oh, no!

01:19:39.000 So you don't want to forget.

01:19:41.000 How many people fly drunk?

01:19:43.000 Yeah.

01:19:44.000 I bet they do.

01:19:45.000 Yeah.

01:19:46.000 Well, if the weather's good.

01:19:47.000 Wasn't that like a Patrick Swayze thing before he kicked the bucket?

01:19:50.000 What are you laughing about?

01:19:52.000 What are you laughing about?

01:19:53.000 You're laughing about something, huh?

01:19:56.000 Harrison Ford?

01:19:57.000 Oh, that's right.

01:19:58.000 Was he drunk?

01:19:59.000 Harrison Ford might have been.

01:20:01.000 I don't know.

01:20:02.000 Might have been.

01:20:03.000 Or maybe he's an old dude.

01:20:04.000 Old dudes look drunk all the time. 1.00

01:20:06.000 And babies.

01:20:11.000 That's a great way to achieve privacy, too.

01:20:15.000 If you're a guy like Harrison Ford, it must be hard for that guy to go anywhere.

01:20:20.000 It's probably real hard for him to go to a regular airport.

01:20:24.000 Yeah, I've got the perfect amount of fame.

01:20:27.000 I was thinking about this today on the airplane, flying down from Portland.

01:20:30.000 I was in the front row, so I had extra leg room, but I wasn't in business class.

01:20:35.000 That's where I am in fame.

01:20:36.000 I want to stay right there.

01:20:38.000 I've got a little extra leg room.

01:20:40.000 You can be normal, stretch your legs out.

01:20:42.000 Some people recognize me, but they all like me.

01:20:44.000 If you don't like me, you don't know who the hell I am.

01:20:46.000 That's nice.

01:20:47.000 Yeah, so you're at a different level. 1.00

01:20:49.000 There are people who recognize you who are like, fuck that guy, Joe. 1.00

01:20:52.000 Me? 1.00

01:20:52.000 Nothing. 1.00

01:20:53.000 I mean, you get mostly love, I'm sure.

01:20:54.000 Remarkably, though, most people are nice.

01:20:56.000 Even people that don't like you, they don't really know you.

01:21:00.000 Right.

01:21:00.000 If they knew you.

01:21:01.000 It's some image they have.

01:21:02.000 I'm nice.

01:21:03.000 If you know me or you meet me, I guarantee we're probably going to get along.

01:21:07.000 Yeah.

01:21:07.000 And if we don't, I'm going to work hard to make it not uncomfortable.

01:21:11.000 The thing about people liking people and not liking people, a lot of it is this severely limited way of communicating, especially when it's one way.

01:21:22.000 If you're putting out a podcast or you're putting out books and they're reading your shit but they don't get to interact at all, that builds resentment.

01:21:29.000 There's a lot of weird resentment that people develop when they listen to you and they don't get to interact. 0.99

01:21:35.000 Especially if someone like me Who's always talking shit, right? 0.97

01:21:40.000 I talk shit for a living, basically, and I'm always giving my opinions, and some people have maybe even a strong point that I probably even agree with them. 0.99

01:21:50.000 And they don't get to say anything. 1.00

01:21:52.000 So they're sitting at home listening like, fuck this guy, I'm tired of this bull. 1.00

01:21:55.000 Yeah, you occupy space in their lives. 1.00

01:21:58.000 Yes, but they don't get to interact.

01:22:00.000 You owe them something.

01:22:01.000 Yes, yes, yes.

01:22:02.000 That makes sense.

01:22:05.000 It's a crude way of communicating.

01:22:07.000 These one-way methods of communication are very crude.

01:22:10.000 Yeah.

01:22:11.000 Yeah, I mean, I was thinking my buddy Simon and I were in a restaurant in Venice and the woman recognized me and like, oh, I love your podcast and gave me your number and I was like, yeah, I'll give her a call sometime.

01:22:23.000 And Simon's like, dude, I would never do that.

01:22:25.000 You never, never, you know, interact with your fans.

01:22:29.000 And then I was like, no, but Simon, you don't get it.

01:22:32.000 She actually knows me.

01:22:34.000 Like, in Simon's case, like, he was in Scary Movie 3, 4, 5. He was, you know, he plays these characters.

01:22:41.000 So when people are like, yo, Simon, like, they don't know him.

01:22:44.000 Right.

01:22:45.000 He's this, the face they recognize, but they don't know the dude.

01:22:49.000 Right.

01:22:49.000 So it's a different kind of thing.

01:22:51.000 I really, like the van trips, the vanthropology thing, I'll say, okay, I'm going to be in Boise at this beer pub Thursday at 8, and people show up.

01:23:01.000 50, 100 people show up.

01:23:03.000 Really?

01:23:03.000 Oh, yeah.

01:23:04.000 But it's mainly so they can meet each other.

01:23:06.000 So when you do this, do you do live shows?

01:23:10.000 No.

01:23:10.000 Do you do live shows?

01:23:11.000 I've never done a live show.

01:23:12.000 I've done, like, Duncan's a couple times with him.

01:23:15.000 You know, we've done...

01:23:16.000 We did the...

01:23:18.000 What was it?

01:23:19.000 A couple years ago, we did the keynote at the float conference in Portland.

01:23:23.000 That's hilarious.

01:23:24.000 That was a good audience.

01:23:25.000 Oh, yeah.

01:23:26.000 That's a tuned-in group of people, right?

01:23:28.000 But I don't do the shows.

01:23:29.000 I just...

01:23:30.000 Keynote at a float conference.

01:23:32.000 With Duncan.

01:23:33.000 Yeah, it was great.

01:23:33.000 Oh, my God.

01:23:33.000 That sounds perfect.

01:23:35.000 Yeah.

01:23:35.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

01:23:36.000 Yeah.

01:23:37.000 But it's really just to build community.

01:23:41.000 That's what I want to do.

01:23:42.000 I want them to meet each other because they're all beautiful weirdos.

01:23:46.000 Right, right.

01:23:47.000 Hopefully.

01:23:48.000 Yeah, they are.

01:23:50.000 I've never met anyone through the podcast that I didn't really actually like.

01:23:54.000 What kind of numbers do you get?

01:23:55.000 Like, what kind of downloads?

01:23:57.000 How many episodes?

01:23:58.000 You know, it's hard to know, but probably 50,000 an episode.

01:24:02.000 That's perfect.

01:24:03.000 Something like that.

01:24:04.000 That's perfect.

01:24:04.000 Yeah.

01:24:05.000 That's a good number.

01:24:06.000 Between 50 and 100. Like, you know, when you and Duncan were on, when we were doing the shrimp parade thing, it would, you know, peak because it's you guys.

01:24:13.000 Do you use advertising?

01:24:15.000 I didn't.

01:24:16.000 For five years it was listener-supported only.

01:24:21.000 Patreon-type deal?

01:24:22.000 Yeah.

01:24:22.000 And then this friend of mine who has this company, Mudwater...

01:24:30.000 He was sort of launching that and he was like, dude, I want to advertise on your podcast.

01:24:34.000 I'm like, yeah, I love you, buddy, but I don't do that.

01:24:38.000 And he sent me an email chain where he was negotiating with another podcast that has roughly the same audience numbers as mine.

01:24:46.000 And I was like...

01:24:47.000 Really?

01:24:47.000 I'm leaving that much on the table?

01:24:50.000 Fuck. 0.99

01:24:50.000 At this point, I only do ads for companies that I really like and that I use their stuff. 0.99

01:25:00.000 So I don't have a broker or any of that stuff.

01:25:04.000 Yeah, I think the subscription model, like when people are paying, like a paywall, the problem is the growth is so limited.

01:25:13.000 So then you could either just do it for free and put it out there and maybe just sell books or sell T-shirts or, you know, in my case, tickets to shows.

01:25:23.000 That would work.

01:25:23.000 I'm going to be in Cleveland this weekend.

01:25:25.000 And Detroit.

01:25:26.000 Nice.

01:25:27.000 Ladies and gentlemen.

01:25:28.000 What's it like to play Detroit?

01:25:29.000 Is Detroit coming back?

01:25:30.000 I love Detroit.

01:25:31.000 They're good people.

01:25:32.000 They're fun people.

01:25:33.000 They're happy you're there.

01:25:35.000 Detroit is not necessarily coming back to where it used to be.

01:25:40.000 It's a bit like, what is a comeback?

01:25:42.000 It's never going to be an auto industry.

01:25:43.000 When you get back in shape and you're 70, guess what?

01:25:46.000 You're never going to be who you were when you were 20. It's never going to be what it was.

01:25:50.000 I mean, it was the richest city in America at one point in time.

01:25:54.000 During the peak of automobile production, I believe it was one of the richest cities in America.

01:26:00.000 And it's a far cry from that now.

01:26:02.000 And it's strange when you drive through the town and you see these boarded up buildings and factories with all their broken windows.

01:26:08.000 And you could buy a house for like $100.

01:26:11.000 It's weird.

01:26:12.000 It's weird.

01:26:13.000 But then there's also a lot of craft restaurants and these businesses that are building up and these hippies that have kind of moved in.

01:26:20.000 And they're kind of...

01:26:22.000 Right.

01:26:52.000 Yeah.

01:27:07.000 One of the things they proudly say is made in Detroit. 0.99

01:27:10.000 And they make cool shit, you know? 0.99

01:27:12.000 So there's something to that, you know? 0.98

01:27:14.000 But the place I'm working at is the Fox Theater. 0.87

01:27:17.000 And it's just like really fucking cool old theater. 0.83

01:27:20.000 And what's interesting, there's columns. 0.77

01:27:23.000 And it was back when people used to be able to smoke.

01:27:25.000 They smoked in there so much that all the columns are like...

01:27:29.000 They have that orangey nicotine sort of tint to them.

01:27:34.000 But one of the columns was replaced by... 0.98

01:27:36.000 So this one column is clear and smooth and clean, and the other ones are fucking orangey. 0.92

01:27:43.000 It seems like you could go up to them with a butter knife and just scrape the nicotine off of them. 0.77

01:27:48.000 But it's a beautiful old building that was made...

01:27:52.000 Way, way, way back in the day, and they said that when it was first made, it was one of the only buildings in Detroit that had air conditioning, so people would go to see movies there, and they would pay to see movies just so they could fall asleep.

01:28:04.000 They'd go in there in just the cool air, and they'd fall asleep during the summer, because people would just be sweltering in the heat of the summer.

01:28:11.000 I've done that in Bangkok.

01:28:12.000 Yeah.

01:28:13.000 Just gone to a cinema just to get out of the heat.

01:28:15.000 Nice. 0.95

01:28:16.000 I fucking love Thailand, man. 0.91

01:28:18.000 Oh, yeah. 0.98

01:28:18.000 I really, really enjoyed Thailand when I was there. 0.98

01:28:20.000 You went recently.

01:28:21.000 Yeah, last summer.

01:28:22.000 It's like, people are so nice.

01:28:24.000 Food's great.

01:28:25.000 Amazing.

01:28:26.000 It's the one country I'm comfortable recommending to just about anyone.

01:28:29.000 Yeah.

01:28:30.000 Because the sort of confluence of convenience and safety and ease, and it's still exotic and really interesting and very foreign... 0.99

01:28:40.000 You know, I wouldn't recommend India to everyone or Indonesia, but Thailand is like, whatever your tolerance is, you'll find something there that works for you.

01:28:49.000 Yeah, I know a lot of fighters who've gone there for camps, for training camps, and wound up either moving there or starting camps there or starting gyms there.

01:29:00.000 They just love it so much.

01:29:01.000 I feel like it's a part of their home.

01:29:03.000 Yeah, I've been there a lot, probably 10 times over the years.

01:29:06.000 It's real cheap, too, in terms of food, eating, lodging.

01:29:11.000 It's the best food in the world, as far as I'm concerned, Thai food.

01:29:14.000 I love spicy food, so to me it's excellent.

01:29:17.000 And it's balanced.

01:29:18.000 It's interesting.

01:29:19.000 It's not just like, blast your face off spice.

01:29:22.000 It's really nice.

01:29:24.000 Did you go to Laos at all?

01:29:25.000 No.

01:29:26.000 That's an interesting place.

01:29:28.000 Really good.

01:29:29.000 I heard Vietnam's amazing.

01:29:32.000 That was Bourdain's, one of his favorite places.

01:29:35.000 Yeah, he loved it.

01:29:35.000 I know, I know.

01:29:37.000 I was there for three months in Vietnam.

01:29:40.000 I didn't dig it that much.

01:29:42.000 There's some really beautiful places, but I found, I was traveling with Casilda, my wife, who's dark-skinned, and there's a lot of racism in She got harassed a lot because everyone assumed that she was a local. 0.97

01:30:00.000 And with me, makes her a prostitute. 1.00

01:30:04.000 And dark skin makes her low class. 1.00

01:30:07.000 So there was a lot.

01:30:09.000 A dude punched her. 0.59

01:30:11.000 A guy punched her?

01:30:12.000 Yeah, an adolescent kid ran up.

01:30:14.000 We were on a motorbike in his rice paddies.

01:30:17.000 And this kid just ran up and punched her in the back and then ran off.

01:30:20.000 Whoa.

01:30:21.000 A young kid?

01:30:22.000 Yeah, like 15 or so.

01:30:24.000 Yeah, it was pretty heavy.

01:30:25.000 She got, like, physically accosted three times in Vietnam.

01:30:30.000 How long were you there?

01:30:30.000 Three months.

01:30:31.000 Fuck! 1.00

01:30:32.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:30:33.000 Yeah, so I didn't dig Vietnam that much.

01:30:37.000 Then we got to Laos, and it was, and there was like, I mean, it's a tough country.

01:30:43.000 They've had, I mean, a shitstorm been going on there since the 40s, you know, or even before that, the French occupation and all that.

01:30:51.000 So I'm not blaming anyone.

01:30:53.000 Isn't that a big part of the heroin trade, Laos, as well?

01:30:57.000 It was during the Vietnam War.

01:30:59.000 Now I think heroin's more coming out of Afghanistan.

01:31:04.000 And Mexico.

01:31:06.000 They've got the cartels. 1.00

01:31:08.000 Do you see the fucking shit that's going down? 1.00

01:31:10.000 Where the government and the armies have backed down and let the cartels run everything? 1.00

01:31:16.000 Yeah, well they took El Chapo's son back, right?

01:31:19.000 Yes.

01:31:19.000 How insane is that?

01:31:21.000 I mean, how is that going to play out?

01:31:23.000 Yeah, it's interesting.

01:31:25.000 I'm going to Mexico in a couple months, but I'm going to a different part of this.

01:31:28.000 Where are you going?

01:31:29.000 Chiapas, way down south, on the border with Guatemala.

01:31:34.000 I really love it down there.

01:31:36.000 There's a town called San Cristobal de las Casas that's up in the Ponderosa Pines, maybe 4,000 feet.

01:31:45.000 It's beautiful.

01:31:46.000 Indian villages around and they come down on market day.

01:31:50.000 I'm going to go down there and work on another book.

01:31:53.000 What are you writing now?

01:31:56.000 You know, it's kind of under wraps because I talked about this book way too much and it slowed me down.

01:32:02.000 Is it all about Neil Young's bed?

01:32:07.000 I can get a guy in trouble for saying that. 0.98

01:32:12.000 You remember the first time I was on this show, how fucked up it was at the beginning? 0.95

01:32:16.000 Were you even aware of that? 0.93

01:32:19.000 What happened?

01:32:20.000 So the first time I came on the show, I didn't know you, right?

01:32:23.000 And I didn't know anything about you because I was living in Spain.

01:32:27.000 And Duncan, I had done Duncan Show.

01:32:29.000 It was the first time I'd done a podcast.

01:32:30.000 I didn't know what a podcast was.

01:32:31.000 I came to LA to visit my parents.

01:32:33.000 I had this email from Duncan.

01:32:34.000 I'm a comedian.

01:32:35.000 You want to do a podcast?

01:32:36.000 I'm like, sure.

01:32:37.000 Never met a comedian.

01:32:39.000 Don't know what a podcast is.

01:32:40.000 So I did it.

01:32:41.000 We had a good time.

01:32:42.000 And after, he's like, you know, I'd love to introduce you to my friend Joe Rogan.

01:32:46.000 I think you guys would get along and you could do his podcast.

01:32:49.000 I'd never heard of Joe Rogan.

01:32:51.000 Right?

01:32:52.000 No insult intended.

01:32:53.000 I lived in Spain.

01:32:55.000 I never watched Fear Factor.

01:32:57.000 Your whole thing was happening over here.

01:32:59.000 I didn't know about it.

01:33:00.000 And then I went back to Spain.

01:33:03.000 I was like, okay, Duncan's friend Joe...

01:33:05.000 Does this podcast in his living room the way Duncan does, I assumed, right?

01:33:09.000 And I went back to Spain, and I was talking to my buddy Voodoo, who's a tattoo artist.

01:33:14.000 And he's like, so how was LA? I was like, yeah, cool.

01:33:16.000 I did a podcast with this comedian.

01:33:18.000 It was really fun and interesting.

01:33:20.000 And he's like, oh, you should do Joe Rogan's podcast.

01:33:23.000 I'm like, dude, how do you know Duncan's friend Joe, right?

01:33:26.000 It was this whole weird thing.

01:33:27.000 He's like, no, dude, Joe Rogan.

01:33:29.000 So I tried to tell you that story the first time I came. 0.99

01:33:34.000 And the point of the story is I'm an idiot, I don't know what's going on, right? 0.99

01:33:38.000 I'm oblivious. 0.99

01:33:38.000 But we got to the point where I said I didn't know you, and you were like, so what did you do, Google me? 0.99

01:33:44.000 And I was like, well, not really.

01:33:46.000 And then we had to do a sound check, or you had to do an ad or something, and the story got interrupted, and I felt like you thought I was trying to diss you or something.

01:33:57.000 I definitely didn't.

01:33:58.000 Yeah, well, I was paranoid.

01:34:00.000 Then you lit up a joint.

01:34:02.000 And he passed the joint around. 1.00

01:34:04.000 And I'm like, fuck, if I don't hit this joint, then I'm confirmed asshole here. 1.00

01:34:09.000 So I hit the joint even though I hadn't smoked any weed in months. 1.00

01:34:13.000 And it was this, like, California weed.

01:34:16.000 I'm holding, literally, I remember, I'm holding the bottom of my chair, trying not to fall out of the chair.

01:34:23.000 And we start talking, and I'm telling this story about a dude that I had met on an airplane, and he was super into Sex at Dawn, and then we were going to do a movie together and whatever.

01:34:36.000 And then his wife took the book away from him.

01:34:39.000 Do you remember all that?

01:34:40.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.98

01:34:41.000 And then I was just like, oh fuck, I shouldn't have told that story. 0.99

01:34:45.000 You know, this whole, I'm fucking everything up. 0.99

01:34:47.000 And I said to you, can we just, because we're like five minutes in at this point.

01:34:51.000 And I was like, Joe, can we just like cut this and start over? 1.00

01:34:55.000 And you looked at me and you said, it's live, bitch. 1.00

01:35:03.000 You don't remember any of that? 1.00

01:35:04.000 I do now.

01:35:05.000 Yeah.

01:35:05.000 I do now.

01:35:06.000 Oh, man.

01:35:07.000 I knew the guy.

01:35:08.000 I knew the guy.

01:35:08.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:35:09.000 And you were like, say his name.

01:35:11.000 And then I said his name.

01:35:12.000 You're like, no, he's a friend of mine. 1.00

01:35:14.000 And I'm like, oh, shit. 0.98

01:35:14.000 I shouldn't have said his name and the whole thing. 0.98

01:35:17.000 Yeah, and then I left, Casilda was here in the studio, and we left, we got in the car, and I said, man, was that as awkward as I felt?

01:35:26.000 And she's like, that's the worst I've ever seen you. 1.00

01:35:31.000 You were great!

01:35:35.000 Established a great friendship.

01:35:36.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:35:37.000 No issues at all.

01:35:37.000 I don't know, maybe you enjoyed watching me suffer, I don't know.

01:35:40.000 I do enjoy watching people get too high.

01:35:44.000 It's not a suffer thing.

01:35:45.000 It's like, I've been there.

01:35:47.000 It's a commiseration thing, I think.

01:35:50.000 One of the things about these Sober October things is you realize there's so many things that are so much easier when you're not high.

01:35:58.000 It's almost like you handicap yourself by getting baked.

01:36:02.000 I was talking to Brian Redband about this.

01:36:06.000 We were talking about how the early days of podcasts, we would get obliterated before we do the podcast.

01:36:14.000 For years, up until maybe 2013 or 14, I had a volcano.

01:36:22.000 Do you know what that is?

01:36:22.000 Those vaporizers.

01:36:24.000 It fills up this bag.

01:36:26.000 And you take these big, deep hits off this THC vapor.

01:36:30.000 And then as soon as you put the bag down, and we go, okay, let's get going.

01:36:34.000 Let's start the podcast.

01:36:35.000 And be like, oh my God, what have we done?

01:36:37.000 And it was this feeling every time we did the podcast was, oh my God, what have we done?

01:36:41.000 And you'd be in the middle of saying something.

01:36:43.000 And as you're saying, like, what am I talking about?

01:36:46.000 Yeah.

01:36:46.000 I don't even know what I'm talking about.

01:36:47.000 And then you would say, oh, no, no, no, it's not that.

01:36:49.000 You would screw things up.

01:36:51.000 You'd get scrambled in your head.

01:36:53.000 When there's no pot at all, that never happens.

01:36:56.000 I mean, you might make mistakes, but you know what you're talking about while you're talking about it.

01:37:00.000 When you're really, really high like that, there's a lot of times where you're talking about stuff where you literally don't know exactly what you're talking about.

01:37:09.000 Yeah.

01:37:09.000 It's like that split personality thing we were talking about earlier.

01:37:13.000 Marijuana has so many pros, but it's got some cons.

01:37:15.000 Like everything in life.

01:37:17.000 Like love and good things and bad things and food and sleep.

01:37:22.000 There's pros and cons.

01:37:23.000 And then the cons become very evident when you're not doing it.

01:37:28.000 I still think every time I do these Sober October things, I always think, well, I'm going to cut back.

01:37:33.000 I'm going to cut back on some weed.

01:37:35.000 And I think I did last year.

01:37:37.000 Like after October, I was like, I am not going to do it as much as I used to do it.

01:37:41.000 Do you drink?

01:37:42.000 Yeah, a little bit.

01:37:43.000 Like wine, beer?

01:37:44.000 I love wine with meals.

01:37:45.000 Yeah.

01:37:46.000 Yeah.

01:37:46.000 If I have a nice meal, I love a glass of red wine.

01:37:49.000 Yeah.

01:37:49.000 I like a cold beer on a hot day.

01:37:52.000 Love that.

01:37:53.000 Dude.

01:37:53.000 Yeah.

01:37:54.000 Yeah.

01:37:54.000 I love that.

01:37:55.000 Yeah.

01:37:55.000 I lived in Spain 25 years or something.

01:37:59.000 And like over there, wine is like water.

01:38:01.000 Yeah.

01:38:01.000 You have wine with breakfast.

01:38:03.000 Really?

01:38:04.000 Oh, yeah.

01:38:05.000 Yeah, it's just part of life.

01:38:06.000 It's like olive oil.

01:38:08.000 It's on everything.

01:38:08.000 That's funny, because I just saw a restaurant.

01:38:11.000 I was at a restaurant.

01:38:11.000 I was using the bathroom, and they had a sign up that said, a meal without wine is called breakfast.

01:38:18.000 So that's Italian.

01:38:20.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:38:20.000 In Spain, they're like, fuck it. 1.00

01:38:23.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:38:23.000 I mean, not everyone's doing it, but workers, like you'll see workers in a bar, you know, they have their sandwiches and a glass of wine. 0.99

01:38:30.000 Yeah.

01:38:31.000 Some coffee with little Baileys in it.

01:38:33.000 Nothing wrong with that.

01:38:35.000 There's nothing wrong with it if you can handle it.

01:38:37.000 Well, you know, when I got to Spain, I remember talking to people like, wow, alcohol is everywhere.

01:38:43.000 And it's not like liquor licenses here.

01:38:45.000 Like every cafe is serving wine and beer and whatever.

01:38:48.000 You can just sell it.

01:38:48.000 It's everywhere, yeah.

01:38:50.000 And kids are there, and it's just, you know, it's not set aside.

01:38:54.000 Right.

01:38:56.000 And the Spanish guy said to me, you know, in Spain, we have many alcoholics but no drunks.

01:39:03.000 And it's true. 0.56

01:39:04.000 Like, you don't see people puking in the street, you know, raging, drunken lunatics, like, you know, in the US. What about, like, sports events, like soccer games?

01:39:14.000 They sell beer, full-strength beer.

01:39:17.000 I don't remember if they sell wine.

01:39:21.000 And, yeah, I mean, Barcelona is a special place.

01:39:25.000 I don't know what it's like in Madrid.

01:39:26.000 I never went to a soccer game in Madrid.

01:39:28.000 But Barcelona, the Catalans are sort of dry, very self-contained people. 1.00

01:39:36.000 So, you know, there's no raging.

01:39:39.000 And right now there's rioting going on, but that's a political thing.

01:39:42.000 What are they rioting over?

01:39:44.000 Catalan independence.

01:39:46.000 Didn't something happen today in Hong Kong?

01:39:49.000 I don't know.

01:39:50.000 I've been out of the loop today.

01:39:52.000 Hong Kong protests have been going on for so long now.

01:39:56.000 It's months and months and months.

01:39:58.000 It's like Intense.

01:40:00.000 And chilly now, too.

01:40:01.000 In Santiago, chilly people are rioting. 0.99

01:40:04.000 Yeah, shit's getting interesting. 0.99

01:40:05.000 It's heating up. 0.99

01:40:07.000 Yeah, it's a strange time to be alive.

01:40:10.000 It really is.

01:40:10.000 Across the board.

01:40:12.000 Yeah.

01:40:12.000 I feel like we're at an inflection point.

01:40:14.000 What's going on?

01:40:15.000 Hong Kong frees murder suspect whose case led to protests.

01:40:19.000 Oh, interesting.

01:40:20.000 Wow.

01:40:21.000 Trying to take the air out of it.

01:40:25.000 You ever read Joseph Campbell?

01:40:27.000 Yeah.

01:40:28.000 So the hero with a thousand faces, his observation that societies all over the world have basically the same origin myth, which is the odyssey, right?

01:40:39.000 It's the person goes out and has all these challenges and faces their fears and learns all the stuff and then returns home with the knowledge that they've gained and they realize that what they were looking for all the time is actually...

01:40:51.000 I feel like, as a species, we're at the point in that journey where we're turning toward home.

01:41:02.000 That's sort of the overriding narrative of this book, that where we are now is we've learned enough that we can go back to or go toward a way of living that replicates in important ways where we came from.

01:41:23.000 So you're doing it.

01:41:23.000 You're hunting.

01:41:24.000 You're spending time in nature.

01:41:26.000 We're looking at different ways of raising kids.

01:41:29.000 We're looking at paleo diet, fasting, controlling the frequency of the light that comes into our eyes at night.

01:41:39.000 There's this awareness that the way forward requires an understanding of where we came from.

01:41:47.000 So I kind of feel when I'm having a good day, I feel like we're at this point now, this crisis point where these institutions, central institutions of Western civilization are collapsing around us.

01:41:58.000 They're just government, Wall Street, religion.

01:42:01.000 It's all just like being exposed as incompetent and useless in many cases.

01:42:10.000 But we've learned these really interesting things like birth control and passive energy and different ways of living on the earth without destroying it.

01:42:21.000 And so the sort of metaphor I use in the book is that we're going to live in zoos, right?

01:42:27.000 But do we want to live in the Calcutta Zoo or the San Diego Zoo?

01:42:31.000 And I feel like, you know, what we're seeing now is we're clearly in a moment of massive global change.

01:42:39.000 And I hope that what the opportunity will...

01:42:43.000 That's being presented is to redesign human existence in a way that's more in accordance with our nature.

01:42:50.000 Does that make sense?

01:42:52.000 I'm struggling to be optimistic.

01:42:57.000 I'm optimistic, too.

01:42:58.000 I always wonder if the numbers are just unmanageable.

01:43:01.000 Well, that's why I mentioned birth control.

01:43:03.000 We know how to reduce global population.

01:43:08.000 But people want babies.

01:43:09.000 But why do they want babies? 1.00

01:43:11.000 What's the incentive?

01:43:12.000 For women, I think there's a biological need. 1.00

01:43:15.000 There's a feeling that not all women, but many women have, where they have that biological clock.

01:43:21.000 It's telling them to have a baby.

01:43:23.000 When they have a baby...

01:43:24.000 I mean, you've seen women that have children. 1.00

01:43:26.000 It's the most intense bonding, the most intense release of oxytocin, the most intense love and feeling of connection with another living creature that...

01:43:41.000 I've ever experienced that I could ever explain to someone.

01:43:45.000 And it's a natural part of being a human being.

01:43:48.000 It also changes who you are as a person when you are responsible for these little people and then you have love for these little people.

01:43:55.000 Like Dave Chappelle said to me once something that really resonated.

01:43:58.000 He said, not only has it changed how much I love, it changed my capacity for love.

01:44:08.000 And that resonated.

01:44:10.000 I was like, that's what it is.

01:44:11.000 It changes how I feel about other people.

01:44:17.000 And the experience for a man is entirely different than it is for a woman because the woman literally creates the being in her body. 0.83

01:44:25.000 A baby is growing inside a woman's body and then she gives birth to it. 1.00

01:44:30.000 With a man, you do what you always do. 1.00

01:44:32.000 You fuck her. 1.00

01:44:34.000 But now you have a baby. 1.00

01:44:35.000 And it's undeniable that you love the baby, you love your child, but you did not have the experience of having it grow inside your body, which I think is a connection that no man is ever going to understand.

01:44:50.000 I don't think it's possible to understand what a woman experiences when she has a baby grow inside of her body.

01:44:57.000 But then...

01:44:59.000 What had changed for me, which was a big one, was it made me look at people Instead of looking at them like static beings.

01:45:11.000 You see the whole thing.

01:45:12.000 Yeah, I looked at them.

01:45:13.000 I was like, oh, that was a baby.

01:45:14.000 Christopher Ryan used to be a baby.

01:45:16.000 That was cute, too.

01:45:17.000 Yeah, I bet you were adorable.

01:45:18.000 And now here you are, grown-ass man.

01:45:20.000 Yeah, I mean, this is something that's missing in our experience when we're not there and we don't see that little person become a big person.

01:45:30.000 That's missing.

01:45:32.000 I feel like I've gained, you know, this is part of what I was referring to earlier where I said, like, you know, we're learning to dance and the party's almost over.

01:45:40.000 I don't have kids.

01:45:43.000 I've been around kids.

01:45:45.000 But I feel like when I was in my 20s, let's say, I sort of worked this out recently in relationships that I think there are three things.

01:45:54.000 There's attraction.

01:45:55.000 There's compatibility.

01:45:58.000 And there's love.

01:45:59.000 And I look at a lot of my relationships with women, they had two of those. 0.99

01:46:04.000 Always love.

01:46:06.000 Sometimes the sex was great, and sometimes the compatibility was great, and very rarely all three of those.

01:46:13.000 But I used to think love was a really limited, scarce experience in life.

01:46:18.000 And the older I get, the more I feel like, no, I could love anybody.

01:46:23.000 If I spent enough time with them and got to know them, I'd feel love for them.

01:46:28.000 That's not hard to find.

01:46:30.000 It seems it's everywhere.

01:46:33.000 When I was young, I thought it was really hard to find.

01:46:36.000 Well, for some people it is.

01:46:38.000 Some people it's hard to find someone who loves them and some people are burdened down.

01:46:42.000 You're very free in the sense that because you have this unusual way of making money and you don't have a lot of needs, you don't need a lot of material things.

01:46:53.000 Some people are very burdened by these needs and they're not free and they're confined to a job and it's very difficult for them to meet anybody.

01:47:03.000 Right? 0.95

01:47:03.000 And then you're also stressed out all the time because of bills and horseshit and then work politics and work dynamics and dealing with the fucking environment of the office. 0.95

01:47:14.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:47:14.000 And you got a boss that's an asshole who's like, you know, you have board meetings and shit and everybody's got to sit there and get cancer while this asshole talks. 1.00

01:47:24.000 You know, are you imagine sitting at a board table and some guys, what we got to do with this company? 1.00

01:47:29.000 That's right.

01:47:30.000 The Matrix?

01:47:31.000 I need you to be here after work.

01:47:34.000 You're here 9 to 5, I want to see a real commitment.

01:47:37.000 We're a family.

01:47:38.000 Yeah, when I'm leaving at 7, I want to see you still here working.

01:47:41.000 Like, what?

01:47:43.000 Yeah.

01:47:43.000 No!

01:47:46.000 And then it's hard to meet somebody.

01:47:48.000 It's hard to find love.

01:47:48.000 Yeah, okay.

01:47:50.000 Certainly you're right about that.

01:47:51.000 I didn't really mean in a dating sense so much as just like a compassion sense.

01:47:56.000 You know what I mean?

01:47:57.000 That everybody's lovable.

01:47:59.000 Sure.

01:48:00.000 You know, like one of the things that I love doing in my podcast is...

01:48:19.000 Right, right.

01:48:27.000 Everybody's interesting.

01:48:28.000 Everybody's got some kind of bizarre story to tell.

01:48:32.000 Often they don't know it, you know?

01:48:34.000 And I feel the same way.

01:48:36.000 Like, everybody's lovable.

01:48:38.000 I'm not talking about romantic love.

01:48:39.000 I know what you're saying.

01:48:40.000 I'm just like, yeah.

01:48:42.000 And you reminded me of when you were talking about seeing the full person's life.

01:48:46.000 Sometimes I've looked at, like, women that I was with who were, you know, 35 years old, and I see the old lady in them and be moved by that.

01:48:56.000 You know, like, you're going to be a beautiful old lady.

01:48:58.000 I'll be dead. 0.76

01:48:59.000 I'll be gone. 1.00

01:49:00.000 You're a weirdo. 0.98

01:49:01.000 I see that, and I'm like, I've got to get out of here before she becomes an old lady. 1.00

01:49:05.000 Uh-oh.

01:49:06.000 I see menopause coming.

01:49:07.000 Get me out of here. 0.99

01:49:08.000 I don't want anybody angry at me for shit I didn't even do. 0.98

01:49:12.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:49:13.000 No, I know what you're saying.

01:49:14.000 I know what you're saying.

01:49:15.000 And, I mean, everybody's lovable to somebody, right? 1.00

01:49:17.000 I mean, unless you're a fucking psychopath. 0.99

01:49:18.000 I had another thing I put on my list here I wanted to mention, almost as a public service, sleep apnea. 1.00

01:49:25.000 I have sleep apnea.

01:49:28.000 Do you know about this?

01:49:29.000 Yeah.

01:49:29.000 Do you snore?

01:49:30.000 I have a mouthpiece.

01:49:31.000 Do you have the CPAP machine?

01:49:33.000 No, no.

01:49:33.000 Oh, you do the jaw thing.

01:49:35.000 No, no, it's different.

01:49:36.000 It holds my tongue down.

01:49:37.000 It keeps my tongue from sliding back.

01:49:39.000 It made a world of difference.

01:49:41.000 Changed everything.

01:49:42.000 Dude, that's why I wanted to mention it.

01:49:43.000 Like, anybody who's got, like, I was not breathing for 20 seconds at a time.

01:49:49.000 And, yeah, this woman I was sleeping with, like, actually counted, you know?

01:49:55.000 And she's like, dude, like, you're choking, you're suffocating.

01:49:58.000 So I went and got a test.

01:50:01.000 It's super easy.

01:50:02.000 You take it home and hook this thing in your finger and all that.

01:50:04.000 And they told me, I think it was like 25 episodes per hour is considered severe.

01:50:10.000 I had 74. Every minute I was suffocating to the point where I sort of woke up and like my throat tissue, you know, the muscles contract so you can breathe again.

01:50:23.000 So you're like always at the surface.

01:50:25.000 I got one of those machines.

01:50:27.000 Dude, I'm like sleeping again.

01:50:29.000 I'm dreaming.

01:50:30.000 It's fantastic.

01:50:31.000 Now, do you have a hard time putting that thing in your mouth?

01:50:35.000 No, it's no problem.

01:50:36.000 It's like scuba diving.

01:50:39.000 You got a regulator, you know?

01:50:41.000 I mean, you have the full face one that goes over your nose and your mouth if you tend to breathe through your mouth.

01:50:47.000 Or they have them that just go over your nose.

01:50:49.000 Which one do you have?

01:50:50.000 I have both.

01:50:51.000 I started, because I used a nose one and then I was breathing through my mouth and that's all weird, so then I got the big one.

01:50:57.000 But after a month with that, now I just use the nose one.

01:51:00.000 Now that pumps air, right?

01:51:03.000 What it does is it creates air pressure, but just very – it's adjustable.

01:51:10.000 It adjusts based on your reaction to it.

01:51:13.000 And so when you are – when you're breathing, the air pressure keeps the passages open.

01:51:21.000 So it can be anatomical.

01:51:23.000 It can be your tongue falling back.

01:51:25.000 That's what it is for me.

01:51:26.000 Yeah.

01:51:27.000 So it keeps the passage open.

01:51:29.000 It's just a slight pressure.

01:51:31.000 And it's really nice because it's like you take a deep breath and it fills your lungs because there's just that little extra push.

01:51:39.000 And it's totally quiet.

01:51:42.000 There's all this stigma around it.

01:51:44.000 People think it's really gross or loud or whatever.

01:51:47.000 The new machines are great and they have a humidifier in them so you can adjust the...

01:51:51.000 How do you power it up when you're camping and stuff?

01:51:55.000 Well, I've got an electrical system in the van and I also have a backup battery, a little lithium battery.

01:52:02.000 That's all you need?

01:52:03.000 Power the whole night like that?

01:52:05.000 Yeah, if you don't use the humidifier.

01:52:06.000 If you use the humidifier, it sucks up more because it's a heating thing.

01:52:12.000 Does the humidifier help?

01:52:13.000 Yeah, it's great, because you can adjust it.

01:52:15.000 You know, like here in LA, we're in a desert, it's dry, so you can turn it up.

01:52:19.000 If you're, you know, I was in Seattle, I'd turn it off.

01:52:21.000 It doesn't matter.

01:52:22.000 So it's just changed the way you feel?

01:52:25.000 I feel so much better.

01:52:26.000 I'm like sleeping through the night.

01:52:28.000 I dream again.

01:52:29.000 Yeah.

01:52:30.000 I didn't, I mean, I feel kind of evangelical about it, because, you know, I know a lot of people have this, men and women, And there's this weird kind of shame around it, and I'm just trying to be like, hey.

01:52:42.000 Yeah, it's a weird thing to be shameful. 1.00

01:52:43.000 Yeah, fuck it, man. 1.00

01:52:45.000 Sleep. 1.00

01:52:45.000 You gotta sleep. 1.00

01:52:46.000 It's really important.

01:52:47.000 It makes everything better.

01:52:48.000 You're like 50% more likely to have car accidents if you have sleep.

01:52:52.000 Oh, yeah.

01:52:53.000 Yeah.

01:52:53.000 It'll fuck up your job.

01:52:55.000 You won't get hard-ons. 0.81

01:52:56.000 It'll ruin everything.

01:52:58.000 Some people, it's really bad, too.

01:53:00.000 And it goes on for years and years and years, and they don't even know about it.

01:53:03.000 I was on a plane once, and there was a guy behind me, and I would hear... 0.99

01:53:08.000 And I turned around and I was like, oh, this poor bastard. 0.98

01:53:11.000 He was a big guy, like very overweight. 0.99

01:53:13.000 And I mean, I was watching this guy lying there with his mouth open like this for a long time.

01:53:21.000 And then finally he would jostle and catch some air.

01:53:25.000 And he woke up and I said, hey man.

01:53:28.000 And I said, do you know you have sleep apnea?

01:53:30.000 He's like, what do you mean?

01:53:32.000 And I said, okay.

01:53:33.000 Let me tell you what's going on.

01:53:34.000 And I showed him my mouthpiece.

01:53:36.000 I'm like, I have this thing that I have to sleep with.

01:53:38.000 Because it was a long flight we were on.

01:53:40.000 And I said, you got to go to a doctor.

01:53:42.000 Get that checked out.

01:53:43.000 And he goes, oh, okay, thanks.

01:53:45.000 I go, no, no, no.

01:53:46.000 Really?

01:53:46.000 Yeah.

01:53:47.000 You got to go to a doctor.

01:53:48.000 I go, this is going to, it'll change your life, man.

01:53:49.000 Heart disease.

01:53:50.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:53:51.000 Like, a lot of bad shit can happen. 0.97

01:53:53.000 It also affects people's dietary choices. 0.98

01:53:55.000 Because when you're exhausted like that, I know how I am.

01:53:58.000 Like, last night, I was tired.

01:54:00.000 I came home from the improv.

01:54:01.000 It was like 1 o'clock in the morning.

01:54:03.000 I should not have eaten. 1.00

01:54:04.000 But I was like, fuck it. 1.00

01:54:05.000 And I made a peanut butter and jelly sandwich at 1 a.m. 1.00

01:54:07.000 Yeah.

01:54:08.000 I definitely shouldn't have had that.

01:54:10.000 Where's the jalapenos, man?

01:54:12.000 Well, I just felt like peanut butter and jelly.

01:54:14.000 Yeah, gotta do it.

01:54:15.000 It's a bad choice.

01:54:16.000 But when you're tired, you make bad choices.

01:54:20.000 Right.

01:54:20.000 You make bad dietary choices.

01:54:22.000 It's very, very common.

01:54:23.000 Yeah.

01:54:23.000 When people are exhausted and overworked.

01:54:26.000 And I think that has to apply to people with sleep apnea.

01:54:30.000 Yeah.

01:54:30.000 Where you're always exhausted.

01:54:32.000 Like, throughout the day, you're just sucking down coffee and trying to stay awake.

01:54:35.000 Yeah.

01:54:36.000 My dad had it for sure.

01:54:38.000 And he never had it treated.

01:54:40.000 And yeah, maybe that's another reason that I'm sort of evangelical about it because it's like it's so easy.

01:54:47.000 So many of the things that mess up our lives are really hard to address.

01:54:51.000 Like, you know, the litany of things you were talking about, board meetings and all that.

01:54:55.000 But, you know, if you can get a good night's sleep for, you know, a visit to...

01:55:01.000 A doctor.

01:55:02.000 I mean, this thing cost $800 for this machine I have.

01:55:05.000 Yeah, it changes your whole life.

01:55:06.000 Your whole life solves the problem.

01:55:08.000 Yeah.

01:55:09.000 You know?

01:55:09.000 Like, that's pretty cool.

01:55:10.000 It's pretty fucking cool. 0.90

01:55:11.000 Some people have a problem with those CPAP machines, but maybe it's just the kind they use. 0.96

01:55:16.000 Joey Diaz changed his life.

01:55:18.000 He started using that thing.

01:55:19.000 He brings it.

01:55:20.000 He's got a portable unit.

01:55:21.000 He brings them on planes.

01:55:22.000 Yeah.

01:55:23.000 Brings it everywhere.

01:55:24.000 Yeah.

01:55:25.000 Yeah, it's great.

01:55:26.000 I mean, I wish every problem were that easy to solve.

01:55:29.000 Yeah, right?

01:55:30.000 No kidding.

01:55:31.000 What else you got there?

01:55:33.000 On my list?

01:55:33.000 I made a bunch of notes.

01:55:35.000 Oh, the Motherfucker Awards. 0.97

01:55:37.000 What's that? 0.99

01:55:38.000 Do you know about that?

01:55:38.000 So my buddy Kyle and I did it last year.

01:55:42.000 So the idea is we were hiking one day in Topanga and we were talking about how he's an environmental activist as well as a big wave surfer.

01:55:52.000 Kyle Tierman Show.

01:55:53.000 He's a podcast as well.

01:55:56.000 Everybody has a podcast.

01:55:56.000 Everybody's got a podcast.

01:55:58.000 He's a really good guy.

01:55:59.000 He's like one of these – I think he's 28. He's like super earnest.

01:56:03.000 And he's the kind of guy like you're having a conversation and you mention a book.

01:56:07.000 And a week later, he's like, hey, I read that book you mentioned.

01:56:10.000 It's really good.

01:56:11.000 It's like – All right.

01:56:13.000 All young people should be like you, you know?

01:56:15.000 He's really, like, smart.

01:56:18.000 Yeah, and serious about stuff.

01:56:20.000 Anyway, we're talking about how hard it is to get people to pay attention to environmental issues because it's such a downer, you know?

01:56:29.000 And I was like, man, I know all these comedians.

01:56:32.000 It would be cool if we could find a way to get comedy into the environmental thing. 0.94

01:56:38.000 And we came up with this idea where we flip everything upside down and we say, we have an awards ceremony to honor the companies that are doing the most to fuck Mother Earth.

01:56:49.000 And the awards are accepted on behalf of the companies by comedians. 0.98

01:56:55.000 So we did it last year and it was fucking wild. 0.92

01:56:58.000 It was so great. 0.84

01:56:59.000 So the presenters were people like Matt Taibbi from Rolling Stone and the guy who was the founder of Greenpeace and environmental people and sort of political people.

01:57:11.000 And accepting on behalf of these people, like Leo Flowers, if you know him, Jake Johansson, Moshe Kasher, and Natasha Leggero did this incredible bit where they were incestuous brother-sister couple.

01:57:25.000 Yeah, I think they represented Chase Bank.

01:57:31.000 Yeah, and Brendan Walsh.

01:57:32.000 He was fantastic.

01:57:33.000 He looks like Dennis Miller there.

01:57:35.000 Yeah, he does.

01:57:36.000 Yeah.

01:57:37.000 So it was great.

01:57:38.000 We wore tuxedos and we did this whole thing.

01:57:41.000 Where did you do it at?

01:57:42.000 At a theater in Inglewood.

01:57:44.000 The Miracle Theater in Inglewood.

01:57:46.000 Yeah.

01:57:46.000 Oh, wow.

01:57:47.000 Yeah, it was great.

01:57:48.000 And it's funded by various people, but the Nell Newman Foundation, Paul Newman's daughter.

01:57:55.000 Oh, cool.

01:57:55.000 She's a big supporter.

01:57:57.000 When are you doing it again?

01:57:58.000 December 3rd.

01:57:59.000 Ah, cool.

01:58:00.000 Yeah, it's great.

01:58:01.000 Same place?

01:58:01.000 Same place.

01:58:02.000 If you're free, come accept an award.

01:58:04.000 Yeah, let me find out.

01:58:06.000 I think I'm out of town.

01:58:08.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

01:58:09.000 We're lining up, like, Brian Callen.

01:58:13.000 Oh, beautiful.

01:58:14.000 Yeah, he wants to do it, but it depends.

01:58:16.000 Lots of people.

01:58:16.000 We're working together tonight.

01:58:17.000 Oh, good.

01:58:18.000 We worked together last night.

01:58:19.000 I had dinner with him a week ago.

01:58:20.000 Yeah, we did two shows last night, and we're doing two shows tonight.

01:58:23.000 I like that guy a lot.

01:58:24.000 I love him, to death.

01:58:25.000 He's one of my favorite people.

01:58:26.000 Yeah.

01:58:27.000 And he's also real down-to-earth.

01:58:29.000 He's a real dude.

01:58:30.000 People often ask me, like, I guess I'm like a conduit to people like you and Brian, and it's like...

01:58:36.000 What are they like in real life?

01:58:38.000 They're like they seem to be.

01:58:40.000 I don't think you could do as many podcasts as he does or as many as I do and be somebody else.

01:58:46.000 Right.

01:58:47.000 I don't think.

01:58:47.000 It's too much work holding up the facade.

01:58:49.000 I don't think it would work.

01:58:50.000 Yeah.

01:58:51.000 I don't think you could hold up a facade that long.

01:58:54.000 Yeah.

01:58:56.000 I don't.

01:58:56.000 I mean, again, everybody varies.

01:58:59.000 You vary who you are, depending upon the day and the stresses and the influences in life. 1.00

01:59:04.000 But I don't know anybody who's full of shit. 0.99

01:59:08.000 Like, I don't know anybody who's doing a podcast who's got, like, a totally different persona. 1.00

01:59:12.000 Right.

01:59:12.000 I bet a lot of those self-help fellows probably, they're rocking that.

01:59:16.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:59:16.000 That's a full of shit industry. 1.00

01:59:19.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:59:19.000 You know? 1.00

01:59:20.000 It's one of those...

01:59:22.000 It's like, there's people that are real self-help people that are doing real work, and they really are committed to it, and they love it, and they really love helping people.

01:59:31.000 And then there's other people that find that as like a niche.

01:59:35.000 It's a way to get in.

01:59:37.000 It's a little greased path.

01:59:39.000 It helps you like...

01:59:42.000 Slip on in.

01:59:43.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:59:45.000 And sometimes it's hard to tell who's who in that world.

01:59:48.000 Yeah, that's a weird world.

01:59:50.000 It's one of the weirdest worlds.

01:59:51.000 The world of constant motivation, where you're constantly motivating people and trying to find some new way to say things you've already said a thousand times.

01:59:59.000 And what's it all boil down to?

02:00:01.000 You know? 1.00

02:00:02.000 It all boils down to the same simple shit again and again. 1.00

02:00:05.000 It does. 0.99

02:00:05.000 Experience over possessions, forgive yourself and others, love yourself and others. 0.99

02:00:11.000 But sometimes they can say something that resonates.

02:00:13.000 Some people can say something that resonates.

02:00:16.000 But those people have to...

02:00:18.000 There has to be something unique about them, like their life experiences.

02:00:22.000 They have to have accomplished something.

02:00:24.000 There has to be some actual meat behind their words.

02:00:29.000 Mm-hmm.

02:00:30.000 And there's a lot of people that are doing it that are just doing it.

02:00:33.000 They're not really doing anything else.

02:00:36.000 They just do that.

02:00:37.000 That's very strange.

02:00:38.000 It's very strange because they've tapped into this need and this feeling that people have where they need to be motivated and they need someone to say positive spiritual things that resonate with them.

02:00:50.000 So these people have sort of found that as a way to become popular or famous or insta-famous or whatever, you know?

02:00:57.000 Yeah, it's like buying a membership to a gym and then never going.

02:01:03.000 Or what I do sometimes, I love to buy camping gear.

02:01:08.000 Do you?

02:01:09.000 I don't really camp very much, though.

02:01:11.000 But I love camping gear, man.

02:01:13.000 Yeah.

02:01:14.000 Like high-quality tents and backpacks.

02:01:17.000 I go to REI. I have grand plans.

02:01:20.000 I need stakes. 0.99

02:01:22.000 I need those little fucking aluminum stakes to get the tents into the dirt. 1.00

02:01:25.000 Oh, dude. 0.99

02:01:26.000 Yeah, the spiral ones.

02:01:28.000 Oh, yeah.

02:01:29.000 They're really good in sand as well.

02:01:31.000 I got them.

02:01:32.000 I got a special hammer to put them in, and then it's got holes that you hook and pull them out.

02:01:37.000 Oh, yeah.

02:01:37.000 Yeah, I've used it maybe twice in five years.

02:01:40.000 If you're lucky. 0.98

02:01:40.000 Yeah, I bought one of them fucking, what are those things called? 0.98

02:01:44.000 Those little stoves, the little propane stoves, little thing that sits on top of it. 0.99

02:01:49.000 Never used it.

02:01:50.000 I was like, I'm going to use this on our next trip.

02:01:53.000 But when civilization collapses, you've got that in the garage.

02:01:57.000 That's really important.

02:01:58.000 When civilization collapses, you really want flint and steel, and you want some tinder. 0.96

02:02:04.000 I mean, you can't count on any of that shit, because you don't know how to make a lighter, so you can't count on lighters. 0.98

02:02:09.000 You've got to be able to make a fire without a lighter. 0.99

02:02:12.000 Also, when civilization ends, you're not going to want to live.

02:02:15.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

02:02:17.000 It's just too hard.

02:02:18.000 There's no way to really prepare for it.

02:02:21.000 No, it's too hard.

02:02:23.000 I guess if that's all you've ever known, if all you've ever known was living in an incredibly primitive way and hunting and gathering, you'd be fine with it.

02:02:33.000 Well, hunting and gathering is easy for hunter-gatherers.

02:02:37.000 If you live in a fertile place.

02:02:39.000 Even if you don't, in the Kalahari Desert, the Kung San people work roughly 20 hours a week. 0.97

02:02:45.000 And what we're calling work is hunting and gathering.

02:02:49.000 What are they hunting?

02:02:51.000 I guess there are some sorts of antelope, rabbits.

02:02:59.000 Rats?

02:03:00.000 Desert rats?

02:03:00.000 I don't know.

02:03:01.000 I haven't spent much time in the Kalahari Desert. 0.98

02:03:03.000 Speaking of rats, there's a fucking crazy article about these monkeys that are eating rats. 0.99

02:03:11.000 Makaak? 0.99

02:03:12.000 Makaak? 0.86

02:03:12.000 How do you say it? 0.86

02:03:13.000 Makaak monkeys? 1.00

02:03:15.000 Look at this.

02:03:16.000 Makaak.

02:03:17.000 Killer rat-eating monkeys stunned scientists in Malaysia.

02:03:21.000 Okay. 0.97

02:03:22.000 I saw that yesterday, and I was going to tweet it, but I was like, alright, I've tweeted too many fucking crazy things today.

02:03:27.000 Whenever I read something really bonkers, I tweet it.

02:03:31.000 But that one, I'm like, I'm saving this one for tomorrow. 1.00

02:03:34.000 But look at the size of that goddamn rat, and these monkeys are ferocious predators. 0.99

02:03:39.000 And they thought of these monkeys as being primarily fruit eaters. 1.00

02:03:43.000 But no, they really favor eating rats, and it's holding this goddamn rat down and eating it head first. 0.99

02:03:51.000 That's a hell of an image. 1.00

02:03:52.000 Fucking A, right? 0.99

02:03:53.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:03:54.000 Well, you ever been to- A popsicle or something.

02:03:55.000 Yeah, it's like a sandwich.

02:03:58.000 It's like he's eating a hoagie. 0.99

02:03:59.000 Yeah, a foot-long rat. 1.00

02:04:01.000 Fucking A, man. 1.00

02:04:02.000 Look at the distant look in his eyes. 0.99

02:04:05.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:04:06.000 Just eating a rat head.

02:04:07.000 Yeah.

02:04:08.000 You ever been in a place with wild monkeys?

02:04:10.000 Yes.

02:04:11.000 Yeah, Costa Rica.

02:04:13.000 It was weird.

02:04:14.000 We were worried.

02:04:15.000 Do they come right up to the...

02:04:17.000 Yeah.

02:04:17.000 We were staying at this resort, and one of my kids wanted to feed the monkey an Oreo.

02:04:24.000 And my wife was like, oh, he probably shouldn't.

02:04:26.000 It's not good for him. 1.00

02:04:28.000 And then I said, let's give him one fucking Oreo. 1.00

02:04:31.000 Who cares? 1.00

02:04:31.000 I bet he's already had an Oreo before. 1.00

02:04:33.000 I forget what the conversation was.

02:04:35.000 Anyway, the monkey takes the Oreo, opens it, and eats the white frosting. 1.00

02:04:39.000 I was like, that little motherfucker's eating a lot of Oreos. 1.00

02:04:43.000 He knew exactly what to do. 1.00

02:04:44.000 He turned it, just like everybody does, and started scraping off the frosting and looking right at you.

02:04:50.000 Yeah, there was different kinds of monkeys, too.

02:04:53.000 There was howler monkeys, and there was big monkeys and little monkeys.

02:04:58.000 That's a crazy place.

02:04:59.000 Costa Rica's wild, man. 1.00

02:05:01.000 Crocodiles and shit. 1.00

02:05:02.000 That was another interesting place I visited. 0.99

02:05:05.000 The crocodiles are a trip, man, because we were in a boat, and we went on this sort of tour of this river system. 0.97

02:05:11.000 And you go on a tour of the river system, and I'm watching this fucking 15-foot crocodile slide into the water from the bank. 1.00

02:05:18.000 I'm like, fuck! 1.00

02:05:20.000 And you see the crocodile slides all over the banks, because these rivers are just filled with crocodiles. 0.99

02:05:26.000 And so anytime my kid would come anywhere close to the railing of the boat, I'm like, hey, hey, hey, let's stay over here.

02:05:32.000 Let's stay in the middle. 0.99

02:05:33.000 What the fuck away from the monsters? 0.98

02:05:35.000 I met this dude a long time ago. 0.99

02:05:38.000 I don't remember where I was, but we were sitting around a fire talking about, like, bizarre experiences we'd had traveling, whatever.

02:05:45.000 He was from, I think, New Hampshire, and he had a thing, like you and Marshall go running every morning, he had a thing where he and his dog would go down to the lake and take a swim every day at dusk.

02:05:57.000 When he got home from work, he'd take the dog for a swim.

02:05:59.000 It was a black lab, I think.

02:06:03.000 And he went to visit his brother in Florida.

02:06:07.000 And he drove down there.

02:06:08.000 And his brother was out when he arrived.

02:06:11.000 And it was around dusk.

02:06:12.000 And he's like, ah, let's go for a swim.

02:06:13.000 There's a lake.

02:06:14.000 And he jumps in the water with his dog.

02:06:17.000 And they're swimming across the lake.

02:06:19.000 And it's quiet, right?

02:06:21.000 And he hears this...

02:06:23.000 And he's like, what was that?

02:06:24.000 That's a weird sound. 0.99

02:06:26.000 And then he realizes, I'm in fucking Florida. 0.99

02:06:30.000 I'm not in New Hampshire. 0.99

02:06:31.000 There are alligators here. 0.99

02:06:33.000 What the fuck am I doing? 0.99

02:06:35.000 So he turns around and starts swimming back. 0.99

02:06:38.000 And he's swimming along, trying not to panic. 1.00

02:06:41.000 And the fucking dog goes, dog's gone. 1.00

02:06:46.000 Fucking alligator came, or croc came up and took his dog. 1.00

02:06:51.000 Never saw the dog again. 1.00

02:06:52.000 What?

02:06:54.000 It could have been him, too.

02:06:55.000 Yeah.

02:06:56.000 One of my favorite alligator stories from Florida is there was a high-speed chase.

02:07:00.000 Guy had a stolen car, and he gets to a bridge.

02:07:04.000 The cops are chasing him.

02:07:05.000 Guy jumps out of the car, jumps off the bridge, gets eaten immediately by an alligator.

02:07:10.000 Literally landed in front of the alligator.

02:07:13.000 And the alligator just snapped.

02:07:16.000 They don't eat people that often, but they definitely will.

02:07:19.000 Yeah, in Africa they do. 0.88

02:07:21.000 Well, crocodiles.

02:07:22.000 Alligators are less aggressive than crocodiles, and there are crocodiles in Florida, but they're much less frequent.

02:07:28.000 What's the difference?

02:07:29.000 American alligator is a smaller animal.

02:07:32.000 They have a longer, pointier snout, and they have more exposed teeth.

02:07:38.000 An alligator has a blunt, more rounded face, and they...

02:07:44.000 They get much larger than American crocodiles.

02:07:48.000 American crocodiles are pretty small. 0.98

02:07:49.000 American alligators get pretty fucking big. 0.98

02:07:52.000 So in Africa, do they have crocs and alligators? 0.98

02:07:54.000 No.

02:07:54.000 Africa is just crocodiles.

02:07:56.000 Just crocs, okay. 0.94

02:07:56.000 They have much, much, much more aggressive crocodiles, too. 0.94

02:07:59.000 They have Nile crocodiles.

02:08:00.000 Right.

02:08:01.000 You see them take those water buffalo and stuff.

02:08:03.000 Yeah, it's terrifying.

02:08:04.000 Saltwater crocodiles.

02:08:05.000 I thought I'd seen video what you said, so I googled it.

02:08:08.000 Four different times, at least in the last couple years, this has happened.

02:08:11.000 One guy lost his arm.

02:08:13.000 Two people died.

02:08:14.000 The Florida thing?

02:08:15.000 Getting chased by the cops and ended up getting eaten by an alligator.

02:08:19.000 It's not just one time. 1.00

02:08:20.000 That's fucking Florida, man. 1.00

02:08:23.000 Florida, man. 1.00

02:08:23.000 Florida is so wacky. 1.00

02:08:25.000 That is the place where all the refugees and the outcasts, they all go to Florida, man. 1.00

02:08:31.000 Yeah.

02:08:33.000 Yeah, more than once.

02:08:34.000 I'm sure.

02:08:35.000 It makes sense.

02:08:35.000 You jump in the water, man.

02:08:36.000 You're risking it.

02:08:38.000 Just because alligators don't eat people as often as crocodiles do in Africa, it doesn't mean that they wouldn't.

02:08:44.000 They don't have a rule book.

02:08:46.000 Like, oh, that's a person.

02:08:47.000 Shouldn't eat them. 1.00

02:08:48.000 They don't give a fuck if you're a dog or a person or a kid. 1.00

02:08:51.000 There was an alligator ate a baby at Disney World. 1.00

02:08:55.000 Oh, I remember that.

02:08:56.000 Yeah, like three years ago.

02:08:58.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:08:59.000 Yeah, fucking two-year-old baby playing by the water. 1.00

02:09:02.000 The alligator just slides up on the bank, snatch, pulls it right under. 1.00

02:09:06.000 Oh, man. 1.00

02:09:07.000 Fuck! 1.00

02:09:09.000 That's a bad day, yeah. 1.00

02:09:11.000 When I lived in Florida, when I was a kid, we lived in Gainesville, and there was alligators everywhere, and I remember one of them snatched some lady's dog, and I was like, Jesus Christ, I didn't know they killed people's dogs, because you would see them floating around, and they seemed so innocuous,

02:09:27.000 because they were almost always still.

02:09:30.000 They very rarely moved.

02:09:31.000 There were signs, they didn't want you to feed them marshmallows.

02:09:34.000 People would throw marshmallows, and the alligators would eat marshmallows.

02:09:39.000 And they just don't want you to...

02:09:40.000 They don't digest them well.

02:09:40.000 Because they float?

02:09:41.000 The marshmallows float, I guess?

02:09:42.000 Yeah.

02:09:43.000 And they would just chew them up and swallow them so people would throw marshmallows at the alligators just to see it. 0.81

02:09:48.000 That was back when alligators were endangered.

02:09:51.000 This was in the late 70s.

02:09:53.000 And they're not endangered anymore. 0.96

02:09:55.000 In fact, you could kill as many of...

02:09:58.000 Like, you can get a commercial hunting tag for 500 alligators.

02:10:03.000 I watched that on that Swamp People show.

02:10:07.000 I've never seen it.

02:10:09.000 This is a show about alligator killers.

02:10:11.000 They're just killing alligators. 1.00

02:10:13.000 Do you know the last Indians to be pacified?

02:10:16.000 I hate that phrase.

02:10:17.000 In the United States, the last tribe to finally give up was Seminole in the Everglades.

02:10:24.000 Yeah.

02:10:25.000 Like, after the Apaches and the Sioux and all that? 0.91

02:10:29.000 Yeah, because, man, that would be a weird life. 1.00

02:10:32.000 Yeah, fuck. 1.00

02:10:32.000 To live in the Everglades? 1.00

02:10:34.000 Well, the Everglades are another thing that human beings ruined because of white trash people in Florida. 1.00

02:10:39.000 Because releasing pythons... 1.00

02:10:41.000 There's literally nothing left alive in the Everglades.

02:10:45.000 All the deer are missing.

02:10:47.000 All the raccoons are missing.

02:10:48.000 All the marsh hares, gone.

02:10:52.000 Everything's missing.

02:10:53.000 These scientists and biologists have done these surveys of wildlife, and the difference between 1980 and 2019 is so unbelievably stark.

02:11:05.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:11:05.000 It's so crazy and it's all those fucking dorks that want to keep pets and then they release them. 0.99

02:11:11.000 They release them out there in the wild. 1.00

02:11:15.000 Yeah.

02:11:15.000 Pythons.

02:11:16.000 But it's not just the Everglades, right?

02:11:18.000 I read recently like 30% of all the birds in North America are gone in the last 40 years.

02:11:26.000 A lot of that's house cats.

02:11:27.000 Have you ever seen the numbers of how many house cats, how many birds house cats kill?

02:11:32.000 Billions.

02:11:32.000 Billions just in United States.

02:11:35.000 But they're cute.

02:11:36.000 Adorable. 0.99

02:11:38.000 Fucking billions, though. 1.00

02:11:39.000 Killers. 1.00

02:11:40.000 Billions of birds.

02:11:41.000 Like, scientists were baffled when they did the actual survey and they found the real numbers.

02:11:46.000 They're like, this can't be real.

02:11:48.000 This can't be right.

02:11:49.000 Billions.

02:11:50.000 You have a cat, right?

02:11:51.000 Yeah, two cats.

02:11:52.000 Oh, you had a whole bit in your stand-up about a cat, I remember.

02:11:54.000 Yeah.

02:11:55.000 Yeah, I like cats.

02:11:56.000 I love cats.

02:11:57.000 Yeah.

02:11:58.000 They're interesting creatures.

02:12:00.000 I had three of them in Spain.

02:12:02.000 It was fun.

02:12:02.000 They had their own little world, you know?

02:12:05.000 Oh, yeah.

02:12:05.000 Three of them did what they wanted to do.

02:12:07.000 The only bummer is litter boxes.

02:12:09.000 Yeah.

02:12:10.000 So I had them outside.

02:12:11.000 Gotta have them outside the house.

02:12:12.000 In my neighborhood, you cannot.

02:12:14.000 Yeah.

02:12:14.000 Coyotes.

02:12:15.000 Yeah, no coyotes in Barcelona.

02:12:17.000 Owls and coyotes.

02:12:18.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:12:19.000 Those owls are a motherfucker. 1.00

02:12:20.000 They'll snatch them up just as quick as anything. 1.00

02:12:22.000 Yeah.

02:12:24.000 We have big owls out here.

02:12:25.000 So if you were going to die from an animal attack, what animal would you like to die from?

02:12:31.000 You'd like a big cat because they would kill you before they'd eat you.

02:12:36.000 You know?

02:12:37.000 Yeah.

02:12:37.000 A bear would just eat you.

02:12:39.000 Yeah.

02:12:40.000 Black bear will eat you. 0.76

02:12:41.000 Grizzly bears sometimes...

02:12:43.000 Grizzly bears will eat you too. 1.00

02:12:43.000 Well, they'll fuck you up. 1.00

02:12:44.000 Anyway, this is what I was told when I was in Alaska, that you play dead with a grizzly but never with a black. 1.00

02:12:51.000 Well, hmm.

02:12:52.000 Because some grizzlies, if they think you're dead, they'll kick some dust on you and come back a week later when you're fermented.

02:12:59.000 They're like French people. 1.00

02:13:00.000 They want it to stink, you know? 0.99

02:13:02.000 Like old cheese.

02:13:04.000 That's not totally true.

02:13:06.000 It depends on how hungry they are and whether or not they're old.

02:13:08.000 But you are more likely to be attacked by a black bear for predation.

02:13:13.000 Right.

02:13:13.000 A friend of mine was attacked recently.

02:13:15.000 Really?

02:13:15.000 Yeah, he had to shoot a black bear.

02:13:18.000 Yeah.

02:13:18.000 Yeah, he tried to chase it off and he stumbled upon, there was a smell, he's a rancher, he stumbled upon this smell and the smell was a dead cow and this black bear had been eating this dead cow and he tried to chase the black bear off and the black bear decided to try to go after him and had to wind up shooting it.

02:13:39.000 He had a rifle or a pistol?

02:13:40.000 I think it was a pistol.

02:13:41.000 But it wouldn't stop.

02:13:43.000 It wouldn't leave him alone. 0.99

02:13:44.000 He's trying to say, hey, get the fuck out of here! 0.97

02:13:46.000 Waving his arms, and it woofed at him, and then it turned around and came at him from another direction, and then it literally ran up within like 20 feet of him. 0.98

02:13:54.000 He's like, okay, we're done here.

02:13:56.000 That happened to me with a monkey once.

02:13:58.000 Really?

02:13:58.000 Yeah.

02:13:59.000 Did you shoot the monkey?

02:14:00.000 I didn't, no.

02:14:02.000 Did you feed him a rat?

02:14:03.000 This was in Malaysia.

02:14:05.000 I was in botanical gardens in Penang, Malaysia.

02:14:09.000 I actually told this story at the beginning of Sex at Dawn.

02:14:12.000 I was with my girlfriend at the time, and like your situation in Costa Rica, she wanted to give some peanuts to these monkeys.

02:14:19.000 These guys at the entrance were selling little bags of peanuts.

02:14:24.000 And so she – there was this baby monkey hanging by his tail over the trail where we were and she pulled out this bag of peanuts and like opened it and that attracted all this attention from other monkeys.

02:14:39.000 And while she was handing a peanut to the baby, this other monkey jumped out from the bushes, leapt on her, took the bag of peanuts, and was gone, like in a flash.

02:14:50.000 It happened so fast.

02:14:51.000 She's screaming. 1.00

02:14:52.000 I'm like, what the fuck? 1.00

02:14:54.000 It was just like, holy shit. 1.00

02:14:55.000 We're surrounded by these monkeys. 1.00

02:14:57.000 They're everywhere.

02:14:57.000 And that's when we realized all the local people had these big sticks.

02:15:01.000 And we thought they were walking sticks or something.

02:15:03.000 They'd like to keep the monkeys away. 0.93

02:15:05.000 I didn't have a stick.

02:15:07.000 So I got like...

02:15:09.000 I was triggered.

02:15:11.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:15:11.000 I got like, fuck you, monkeys. 1.00

02:15:14.000 You know? 1.00

02:15:16.000 You leave my girl alone. 1.00

02:15:19.000 He said that like Joe Dirt.

02:15:21.000 I was not into it.

02:15:23.000 Right.

02:15:24.000 And yeah, I felt like, you know, all this testosterone and adrenaline.

02:15:29.000 And I was like, ah!

02:15:31.000 Hulk smash.

02:15:32.000 Yeah.

02:15:33.000 So we, you know, 20 minutes later, we're in this sort of field.

02:15:39.000 I think? 1.00

02:15:55.000 And I'm just like, fuck you, dude. 1.00

02:15:57.000 Like, I'm three times your size. 1.00

02:15:59.000 Fuck you. 1.00

02:16:00.000 And he sort of, like, moves, you know, sort of does this thing, and he's looking at me, and there's a branch, and I picked up the branch and threw it at him, right? 1.00

02:16:09.000 Kind of like what your buddy was trying to do with his bear. 0.96

02:16:11.000 Like, hey, get the fuck out of here, you know? 1.00

02:16:13.000 And this monkey just looked at the branch land in front of him and looked up at me, and he was like, you fucked up. 1.00

02:16:22.000 And he leapt over it and came charging at me with these fangs, just coming straight at me. 1.00

02:16:31.000 I went nuts. 0.84

02:16:33.000 I turned into a monkey. 0.95

02:16:34.000 I just started going...

02:16:38.000 And I was like jumping up and down and spraying spit everywhere.

02:16:42.000 And he stopped and we're like, ah!

02:16:44.000 And my girlfriend's screaming and we're like 10 feet away.

02:16:48.000 And then he just like backed up. 1.00

02:16:49.000 Like, yeah, fuck you. 1.00

02:16:50.000 And left. 1.00

02:16:52.000 Primal moment.

02:16:53.000 Very primal moment.

02:16:54.000 And you didn't plan that?

02:16:56.000 No.

02:16:57.000 If I'd had a stick, it wouldn't have been necessary.

02:17:00.000 Oof. 0.70

02:17:01.000 So the moral of the story is, carry a stick when you're all monkeys. 0.66

02:17:05.000 Walk softly.

02:17:05.000 Yeah.

02:17:06.000 Carry a big stick.

02:17:07.000 Dude, I gotta wrap this up.

02:17:08.000 Yeah.

02:17:08.000 Let's go take a nap.

02:17:10.000 I got shit to do. 1.00

02:17:12.000 Oh, no. 1.00

02:17:13.000 Civilized to Death, The Price of Progress, Christopher Ryan, Tangentially Speaking.

02:17:17.000 And what's the other one?

02:17:19.000 I've been talking about it forever.

02:17:20.000 The first book, Sex at Dawn?

02:17:21.000 No, no, no.

02:17:22.000 What do you call your podcast from the van?

02:17:25.000 It's still just tangentially speaking?

02:17:26.000 Oh, yeah.

02:17:26.000 It's still tangentially speaking.

02:17:27.000 It's just hashtag vanthropology on social media.

02:17:31.000 Always good to see you, brother.

02:17:32.000 Thank you, brother.

02:17:32.000 Thank you.

02:17:33.000 Thanks for being here.

02:17:34.000 Bye, everybody.

02:17:37.000 That was fun.

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 23, 2019

Joe Rogan Experience #1369 - Christopher Ryan

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