The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1599 - Tulsi Gabbard

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

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00:00:14.000 Hey, what's up, Susan?

00:00:15.000 Good to see you, too.

00:00:16.000 You got notes.

00:00:17.000 You're prepared.

00:00:17.000 Look at you.

00:00:18.000 Yeah, you know.

00:00:18.000 What are you, a congresswoman or something?

00:00:19.000 Something like that.

00:00:20.000 I was.

00:00:21.000 I was.

00:00:22.000 Does it feel weird to be a former congresswoman?

00:00:26.000 I don't know.

00:00:27.000 It's a crazy time, and I'm back in Hawaii.

00:00:33.000 I'm getting a lot of surf in, and yoga, meditation, and yeah.

00:00:39.000 Does it feel better?

00:00:40.000 Yeah.

00:00:41.000 Yeah.

00:00:41.000 You know, I'm so grateful to the people of Hawaii that I had the privilege of being able to serve them and represent them.

00:00:48.000 It's getting crazier and crazier to see the divisiveness in the country and the divisiveness in Congress.

00:00:59.000 And unfortunately, it's just getting worse.

00:01:00.000 I mean, it seems to be getting progressively worse over the time that I've been there, but especially now.

00:01:07.000 The thing that really concerns me is that I don't see a way it turns around.

00:01:11.000 Like, I don't see a method.

00:01:14.000 I don't see a mechanism where this ship just goes, and turns back in the port of Normalville.

00:01:22.000 It seems like once...

00:01:25.000 Yeah.

00:01:39.000 Yeah.

00:01:47.000 We're a country.

00:01:48.000 We're supposed to be a part of a community.

00:01:49.000 The United States of America.

00:01:52.000 We're literally in a, I want to say completely non-violent, but semi-non-violent civil war.

00:01:59.000 Yeah.

00:01:59.000 I mean, that's what it seems like.

00:02:01.000 I mean, it's not rocket science on how and why we got here.

00:02:06.000 When you look at...

00:02:14.000 We're good to go.

00:02:30.000 Big tech and social media doing the exact same thing, stoking these divisions, fueling that fire because they figured out it gives them better ratings, they get more eyeballs watching, and same thing on social media.

00:02:43.000 They start pushing so much of this divisive rhetoric towards people that stokes more of these flames and gets more clicks and more attention and more views.

00:02:51.000 Which goes to kind of the heart of, okay, so how do we start to turn this ship?

00:02:56.000 I mean, it comes down to leadership.

00:03:00.000 It comes down to who we as voters choose through our elections to lead us in this country, people not motivated by their hunger for power.

00:03:12.000 And also making decisions about, you know, hey, where are we getting our information?

00:03:17.000 How are we responding to kind of this divisive rhetoric and this hate?

00:03:22.000 Yeah, I'm in the middle of Matt Taibbi's book, Hate, Inc., which is excellent.

00:03:28.000 I haven't read it yet.

00:03:28.000 It's very good.

00:03:29.000 Although I sent him a message today.

00:03:32.000 I'm like, why don't you read your own books?

00:03:34.000 Because I'm listening to the audio book.

00:03:35.000 Those are always best when the author reads Yes, that's what I think.

00:03:39.000 Especially when it's someone who's distinct as Matt.

00:03:43.000 His voice is very distinct.

00:03:44.000 I want to hear him read it, but it's probably annoying to do it.

00:03:47.000 But also, I think a lot of the publishers don't want the authors to read it.

00:03:50.000 They want to hire a professional to do it.

00:03:52.000 Really?

00:03:52.000 Yeah, I've had friends that have written books that have encountered that.

00:03:55.000 But anyway, the book is excellent, and it sort of highlights how all these factors Sort of coalesced together and created this tsunami of shit that we're living in right now.

00:04:06.000 And it's really confusing because you could sit around with total peace of mind and try to imagine a way that this resolves itself. 0.73

00:04:21.000 And I don't see it.

00:04:23.000 Other than, like you said, some spectacular leader.

00:04:28.000 Like someone who...

00:04:30.000 But even that, if you find someone, the other side will find some way to demonize them or distort their positions or take anything they've said out of context and paint them as the worst person that's ever lived.

00:04:45.000 We live in this world of no nuance.

00:04:48.000 We live in this world of...

00:04:50.000 Clickbait and the social media algorithms that really fuel hate in the most spectacular way I think that our civilization has ever seen.

00:05:01.000 I don't think we've ever seen a force like social media, like the algorithms that people are locked into with Facebook and with all these other platforms that literally send all the things that piss you off your way.

00:05:15.000 Because those are the things that we engage with more.

00:05:19.000 Yeah, I agree.

00:05:20.000 There's not been a phenomenon like social media that our country, or the world for that matter, has dealt with before.

00:05:28.000 It's going to take more than just one phenomenal leader to unify the country and to start to de-escalate the kinds of divisive tensions that we're seeing.

00:05:40.000 It's going to take a whole host of Leaders at every level that we as voters choose to serve the people and to serve the best interests of the country and who will then take the kinds of legislative action necessary to start to rein in this almost unlimited power that these big tech monopolies have.

00:06:06.000 Yeah.

00:06:21.000 And so on.

00:06:46.000 That can and should be made to this Section 230 provision that essentially gives big tech legal immunity to do kind of whatever they want.

00:06:58.000 Why aren't they doing something about it?

00:07:00.000 And this is where you have leaders who take money from all these big tech monopolies and raise money from them and all their friends for their campaigns and whatever they're They're almost beholden to them and therefore I don't expect that we'll see any action on meaningful reforms to address this unless we get new people in office or we say,

00:07:21.000 you know, hey, you can't take money from these PACs.

00:07:24.000 We've talked about this before, about the corrosive and corruptive influence that it has on leaders who are supposed to be serving the people rather than Google or Facebook.

00:07:32.000 Yeah.

00:07:33.000 Yeah, and Google at this point and Facebook have so much money to be on their bad side, to have them support a candidate that's contrary to your position.

00:07:45.000 Like if you're in a position of censorship and there's another candidate that's like, listen, we don't have to censor.

00:07:49.000 Help me out.

00:07:51.000 I'll let you guys do it.

00:07:52.000 I think you're good people.

00:07:53.000 You're just trying to do your best work and it's a crazy world.

00:07:57.000 Like, there's no need.

00:07:58.000 There's no need for Congress to legislate.

00:08:01.000 The Senate doesn't have to come down on you.

00:08:03.000 The president should never say.

00:08:04.000 You're a private company.

00:08:06.000 And this is the argument.

00:08:07.000 And I see, I legitimately see both sides of it.

00:08:10.000 Because when this Parler ban thing came out, I was very concerned.

00:08:15.000 But I was also concerned that Parler was allowing these people that were on there that were organizing violence.

00:08:22.000 So if there's no moderation at all, and they're on, and they're saying, hey, we're bringing pipe bombs, I don't know what they were saying, but if they were saying something along those lines, we're going to attack the Capitol, we're going to zip tie and kill every politician we have, you should probably do something about that.

00:08:39.000 So where does the line get drawn as to what you censor and what you don't, what you report and what you don't?

00:08:44.000 And the argument that Tim Cook laid out was that the things that were on Parler, the reason why they pulled it from the App Store, They need some moderation.

00:08:53.000 That's what he was saying.

00:08:54.000 And he was saying, once they have that moderation, they'll be allowed back on the App Store.

00:08:58.000 Which seems fairly reasonable.

00:09:01.000 The problem is, it's kind of a slippery slope.

00:09:04.000 Like, okay, you take that out.

00:09:07.000 Threats of violence.

00:09:09.000 You know, plans of attacks on federal buildings.

00:09:13.000 But then, where does that line get drawn?

00:09:16.000 Like, when do you allow free speech to just reign?

00:09:20.000 Is it...

00:09:21.000 Can you dock someone?

00:09:23.000 They don't censor anything at Parler, right?

00:09:27.000 So I don't know the full extent of their rules, but I've listened to some of the interviews that the founder has done and the CEO has done over the last couple of weeks because I shared the exact same concern that de-platforming an app like Parler could very easily happen to any other Yes.

00:10:07.000 Mm-hmm.

00:10:27.000 In moderating it.

00:10:28.000 This is what he said.

00:10:29.000 I haven't verified all this or looked into it myself, but that's the argument they're making.

00:10:35.000 But the bigger argument is, whether it's Parler or this is happening on Facebook or Twitter or any other social platform, is the line is drawn on speech that is protected under the First Amendment.

00:10:50.000 And as we're talking with this example...

00:10:53.000 That is speech that is inciting imminent violence.

00:11:01.000 That's the precedence that's been set with the First Amendment and ruled by the Supreme Court as speech that is not protected under the First Amendment.

00:11:11.000 And there are a few other examples on that.

00:11:14.000 And I think that's exactly what should happen, because under the law right now, this Section 230 that gives these online companies legal immunity, the language specifically says that they have the power to remove,

00:11:30.000 quote, otherwise objectionable content from What does that mean?

00:11:36.000 Exactly.

00:11:37.000 It can mean anything to anybody, whether it is protected under the First Amendment or not.

00:11:44.000 And it's shocking.

00:11:45.000 I don't know how that phrase was allowed to be passed into law, but it's there.

00:11:52.000 So those two things are the things that can be changed very easily by law.

00:11:58.000 Amending that Section 230. Take away that provision that says that they can censor objectionable content.

00:12:05.000 But God, so many things are objectionable.

00:12:08.000 But, you know, something objectionable to you may not be objectionable to me and vice versa.

00:12:12.000 That's the issue.

00:12:13.000 And then change that line that basically says if it is speech that is protected under the First Amendment, you don't touch it.

00:12:24.000 If it's outside of the First Amendment, like the example that we're talking about, then you have the power to delete those posts.

00:12:33.000 And there's, you know, decades of Supreme Court precedents that can be pointed to as the guideway for these tech companies to make those decisions of, okay, is this something that is a violation of the First Amendment or is not protected by the First Amendment or not?

00:12:50.000 Those are the reforms that I believe need to be made.

00:12:53.000 Yeah, that is only reasonable.

00:12:55.000 The idea that otherwise objectionable or something that's objectionable, that is so open-ended.

00:13:01.000 Exactly.

00:13:02.000 And that's why we're seeing what we're seeing with big tech.

00:13:02.000 That's so bananas.

00:13:05.000 Another big fear of something like shutting down Parler, and now I'm going to put on a tinfoil hat right now, is...

00:13:13.000 I think?

00:13:30.000 You know, having these fake conflicts.

00:13:33.000 The Internet Research Agency in Russia is a fantastic example of this.

00:13:37.000 It is only one of many, I'm sure, that exist in multiple different countries.

00:13:42.000 Renee DeResta's work on this, and I know you've had an issue with her with something that they did.

00:13:46.000 Her company had done about you previous to this, right?

00:13:51.000 Yeah.

00:13:51.000 Yes.

00:13:52.000 While I was campaigning for president, I believe they were cited as a source essentially for stories saying that I was some kind of Russian asset.

00:14:02.000 Essentially, that's really what the heart of it was.

00:14:04.000 I know she had nothing to do with that, but this was before I believe she even became a part of that.

00:14:09.000 How did they set this story up?

00:14:12.000 How does someone come up with a story that says that you are some sort of a Russian asset?

00:14:17.000 Was this something that was posted on social media?

00:14:19.000 Was this...

00:14:20.000 Yeah, you know, it starts with people making unfounded accusations like that.

00:14:29.000 People like Hillary Clinton, for example, and having that accusation echoed in other parts of the media and by other so-called influential individuals. 0.97

00:14:39.000 And I don't know.

00:14:40.000 I think they're like, oh, well, we think that there are Russian bots that are helping Tulsi in her campaign.

00:14:46.000 I have never seen any evidence or proof of that.

00:14:50.000 And I think that really is what gets to the heart of it.

00:14:55.000 Okay.

00:14:55.000 But if there were Russian bots helping you, that doesn't mean that you had anything to do with that.

00:15:00.000 Exactly.

00:15:04.000 That are helping anyone who's contrary to something that they're opposed to.

00:15:11.000 If there's a bunch of people that want Hillary Clinton to be president, I can guarantee you there's a bunch of people that don't.

00:15:20.000 Now, if there's a bunch of people that don't, they're going to come up with a reason to support or enhance the profile of a person that's opposed to her.

00:15:29.000 There's this weird manipulation that's going on with social media that was highlighted by Rene Duresta's work that is beyond...

00:15:36.000 If you think, oh, it's probably...

00:15:39.000 No, there's hundreds of thousands of posts they cited that were done, and there's millions of interactions.

00:15:47.000 It has a significant effect of moving the needle. 0.93

00:15:50.000 And it's memes, and it's pages, and they were doing this shit, and they were manipulating people to try to cause conflict. 0.94

00:15:59.000 And I'm sure there was some of that about every single candidate. 0.89

00:16:03.000 And I don't think it's necessarily as much of supporting one individual candidate as another as it is causing conflict.

00:16:11.000 And I think if Russia's playing this long game and China's playing this long game, which historically that's what they do, right? 0.92

00:16:19.000 What they want to do ultimately is get us at each other's necks.

00:16:24.000 The best way to do that is to just raise up the conflict bar.

00:16:28.000 Like, is it at six now?

00:16:29.000 Jack it up to nine. 1.00

00:16:31.000 Let's get these fucking people to really hate each other. 0.99

00:16:34.000 And that, if someone says, oh, Tulsi Gabbard's a Russian asset, well, Jesus Christ, you served overseas twice. 1.00

00:16:43.000 Two separate occasions.

00:16:44.000 You're a congresswoman for six years. 0.99

00:16:46.000 Eight years.

00:16:47.000 Excuse me, eight years.

00:16:48.000 We're good to go.

00:17:09.000 When she's over there.

00:17:10.000 Let's have her exposed to the horrors of war so she comes out against these interventionist foreign policies that have led us into these countless endless wars. 0.98

00:17:19.000 That's a good way to construct a Russian agent. 0.86

00:17:22.000 That is every aspect of it.

00:17:24.000 That is the tinfoil hat speaking. 1.00

00:17:25.000 It's so fucking dumb. 1.00

00:17:27.000 It's such a dumb thing to say. 1.00

00:17:29.000 But they say it like it's nothing. 0.99

00:17:31.000 Because it's one of those things.

00:17:32.000 And I saw them say it on The View, like when Joy Behar's reading off her card.

00:17:36.000 They say it like it's a thing that you can say.

00:17:40.000 Like you're moving a chess piece.

00:17:42.000 You're doing this, and then I'll do that.

00:17:44.000 Russian agent, how about that? 0.96

00:17:46.000 Oh, you're a toady, or you're a this, or you're a that.

00:17:50.000 The lack of nuance in these conversations and the lack of understanding what is happening when you do things like this.

00:17:57.000 The consequences.

00:17:57.000 Exactly.

00:17:58.000 The consequences are grave for all people because this is what people have said about laws.

00:18:05.000 And one of the things that people said about the Patriot Act is that when they were talking about mass surveillance and the things that Snowden revealed and some of the things that the NSA were doing...

00:18:19.000 If you've got a guy in office that you love, like Obama, and you think it's going to be fine because he's in office, understand that there's a guy that's probably going to be there in four years or in eight years that is not going to be your friend, it's not going to be who you like,

00:18:35.000 and he's going to have access to those same laws.

00:18:37.000 This is why it's so important that we not change these laws.

00:18:41.000 This is why it's so important that we don't give the government massive ability to just look into your emails and listen to your voicemails.

00:18:47.000 And why it's so important for us, especially now, to stand up for freedom of speech, for freedom of the press, for that exact reason.

00:18:47.000 Yeah.

00:18:55.000 And that's what's so disturbing about a lot of what we've seen starting to play out over the last week or two with...

00:19:04.000 An increasing call for people to say, well, you know, maybe we need to start shutting down certain new media entities that are promoting or saying things we don't like or shutting down people's Twitter accounts because they're saying things that we don't like.

00:19:20.000 This is a double-edged sword.

00:19:22.000 And you think that you're putting these things in place because, you know, it's a good thing.

00:19:34.000 Very quickly.

00:19:37.000 Very quickly.

00:19:39.000 Very quickly.

00:19:57.000 Friends of mine, I think all service members understand truly in our heart of hearts, we take that oath to support and defend the Constitution so seriously that we are willing to give our lives to defend people's rights to free speech, whether we agree with that speech or not.

00:20:19.000 Yeah.

00:20:41.000 I'm sure a lot of it was people that really did believe that they were patriots.

00:20:45.000 And there's a lot of simple-minded people.

00:20:48.000 One of the things you're seeing about the people that were arrested, like the QAnon shaman who lives with his mom, who's posted FBI pedophile theories on the internet.

00:20:58.000 These people are out there.

00:21:00.000 Right?

00:21:01.000 And they're easily duped, and they're easily led, and they don't have a lot going on. 1.00

00:21:05.000 And if somebody riles them up, and then they have 30,000 or 300,000 of their fellow morons, and they're all together, crazy shit can happen. 0.99

00:21:14.000 So it's like, I don't know what the answer is. 0.99

00:21:17.000 Because on one hand, like, yeah, if there's an organizing place where these people are getting together, and they're really planning to do something as horrific as what happened, Well, you should probably stop that.

00:21:30.000 But the problem is if you do shut that whole platform down because of these bad agents, you make it so that any platform can be shut down by any bad agents that come in and start doing something along those lines. 0.98

00:21:43.000 So if a new competitor to Facebook or a new competitor to Twitter comes along, the easy way to shut them down, you infiltrate them with scumbags. 0.97

00:21:52.000 Real or created. 0.96

00:21:54.000 You have these people that jump on board, whether it's Gab or Minds or any of these other alternative social media networks, and you can just flood the gates with hate.

00:22:04.000 And then everyone's gonna be calling for them to be censored and shut down.

00:22:07.000 And what you're essentially doing, you're reinforcing the monopoly that currently exists.

00:22:12.000 It's a strange monopoly.

00:22:15.000 YouTube.

00:22:15.000 YouTube has been great to me.

00:22:17.000 I have no problems with YouTube.

00:22:18.000 My issue is, it is very strange when there is one company that does something, like, you can upload video to it, that becomes the predominant company on Earth!

00:22:30.000 And it's owned by Google?

00:22:32.000 Like, Jesus Christ, that is so crazy!

00:22:34.000 That one company has this thing that is...

00:22:37.000 It's not simple in terms of technically.

00:22:39.000 I'm sure it's very complicated.

00:22:41.000 But as far as a concept of like, you make a video, you upload it, this is a social network where anybody can upload their videos to.

00:22:48.000 Why is there only one that's this big that has that kind of power?

00:22:51.000 Well, you couple that with the fact that it's owned by Google.

00:22:55.000 So if I go online on Google and start searching for a video, whose video platform do you think is going to pop up first?

00:23:04.000 Yes.

00:23:04.000 YouTube's.

00:23:05.000 Exactly.

00:23:06.000 And this is Rumble.com's big...

00:23:09.000 I think they're filing a lawsuit against Google right now for that reason, because Rumble.com is maybe one of the...

00:23:17.000 I don't know how many alternatives to YouTube there are, but it is a alternative to YouTube, and they're alleging that...

00:23:24.000 Google is consistently ranking their own YouTube pages on videos much higher up in a Google search than they would rank a video that's hosted on Rumble.com.

00:23:36.000 And that kind of power is why many of us believe that these big tech companies need to be broken up because you do have essentially a monopoly that is difficult, if not impossible, to break through.

00:23:49.000 Yeah, that's crazy that they're so intertwined like that.

00:23:51.000 And also crazy that I've never even heard of Rumble before.

00:23:54.000 I didn't either until like a week ago.

00:23:56.000 And then I saw a headline that Rumble.com is suing Google.

00:23:59.000 And I clicked.

00:24:01.000 I'm like, hmm, this is interesting.

00:24:02.000 And I heard an interview with the...

00:24:04.000 It's a Canadian company.

00:24:06.000 And they do...

00:24:07.000 It's essentially the same thing that Google does.

00:24:09.000 They got something a little bit different that they deal with copyrights differently or something like that.

00:24:14.000 But...

00:24:17.000 Yeah.

00:24:17.000 What is Rumble.com?

00:24:18.000 Then I started looking up and figuring out who they are and what they do.

00:24:21.000 But it's very telling that not a whole lot of people know who they are.

00:24:25.000 Well, I started using DuckDuckGo, and it's interesting when you look for something on Google and you cannot find it.

00:24:35.000 And then you look for it on DuckDuckGo and it's there right away.

00:24:38.000 I was looking for the story of the doctor in Florida who took a COVID vaccine and died very quickly.

00:24:46.000 And a relatively healthy 50-something-year-old doctor.

00:24:51.000 And, you know, it's an anomaly.

00:24:53.000 It's rare.

00:24:55.000 Rare things happen when people take medications.

00:24:57.000 It's just part of medicine.

00:25:00.000 They were hiding it on Google.

00:25:01.000 You could not find it.

00:25:02.000 I was putting in all the keywords, the guy's name.

00:25:06.000 I couldn't remember the guy's name.

00:25:08.000 The guy's age, Florida, doctor, vaccine, death.

00:25:12.000 All these different things.

00:25:12.000 Couldn't find it.

00:25:13.000 Duck, duck, go. 0.93

00:25:14.000 Right away.

00:25:15.000 Usually those would be enough indicators for you to get the right story or something close to it.

00:25:19.000 No.

00:25:20.000 I mean, these are like NBC News.

00:25:22.000 A bunch of different local publications that highlighted this story.

00:25:28.000 I couldn't find it on Google.

00:25:29.000 So they were trying to suppress any information that would lead people to not want to take the vaccine.

00:25:37.000 Interesting.

00:25:38.000 Which is, you know...

00:25:39.000 Also dangerous.

00:25:40.000 Also dangerous.

00:25:42.000 That even people who are merely asking questions.

00:25:45.000 Yeah.

00:25:46.000 Just trying to get information.

00:25:47.000 Or just a news story.

00:25:48.000 Right.

00:25:49.000 I understand the vaccine is important.

00:25:51.000 I understand controlling the pandemic is important.

00:25:53.000 I understand this.

00:25:54.000 All these things make sense to me.

00:25:56.000 But I don't...

00:25:57.000 Understand the curation of information to the point where you're actually actively hiding something that's contrary to what the public mainstream idea of what you should be doing is.

00:26:10.000 It gets real weird.

00:26:12.000 That's what's so dangerous and kind of makes it hard to believe that this is happening in America, that it's supposed to be this beacon of freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

00:26:21.000 And all these other things.

00:26:22.000 But you brought up this issue of bots and divisiveness, and it's not only the bots, but also just the anonymous, what do you call them, like the couch Twitter warriors or keyboard warriors or whatever, trolls.

00:26:38.000 A simple solution could be just that there is a requirement that when you register an account that you are a real person and you use your real name.

00:26:46.000 Yes, that's a great, but the problem with that is there's legitimate cases where whistleblowers are necessary in large companies where a person's really worried about the repercussions of this, especially if that large company that's doing something terrible can get away with it,

00:27:01.000 and then they actively target the individual that was the whistleblower.

00:27:06.000 If they're posting, if the whistleblower is posting information, is that what you're saying?

00:27:09.000 Yeah, so if there's some story, say if you're working for some company, And they're doing something awful.

00:27:15.000 They're polluting something.

00:27:17.000 They're doing something they're not supposed to be doing.

00:27:18.000 And you work for that company.

00:27:20.000 You feel compelled to reach out.

00:27:21.000 If you reach out with your own name, two things happen.

00:27:26.000 One, you get exposed.

00:27:27.000 And two, you can no longer be working for that company anymore.

00:27:29.000 You don't have access to it.

00:27:31.000 So you can't continue to push out all this information that might be very important to the public.

00:27:37.000 Fair enough.

00:27:38.000 I think that there, you know, if you look at kind of the route that Edward Snowden took in finding a partner in some form of media, whether it's traditional media or new media, to be able to help be your voice to alleviate that kind of targeting could be an answer.

00:27:55.000 It's a legitimate concern, for sure, but a way to protect yourself.

00:28:00.000 Yeah.

00:28:01.000 In that case.

00:28:06.000 But I also see the real value in making people be accountable for what they're saying.

00:28:11.000 For their words, exactly.

00:28:12.000 And I've seen it and heard it all.

00:28:16.000 I've seen it and heard it all of how much people are willing to say, obviously, online that they will never, ever say to your face.

00:28:25.000 And I will count members of Congress in that batch.

00:28:29.000 Well, I'm sure.

00:28:30.000 They're just humans.

00:28:32.000 Yeah.

00:28:32.000 Was it disappointing, like, being in Congress and seeing that kind of behavior?

00:28:41.000 Like, if you have this ideal of what a representative of our democracy is supposed to be, and then seeing people that are petty and that are sneaky and doing little...

00:28:54.000 This was my first impression, getting elected.

00:28:58.000 Got elected 2012, got there and sworn in in January of 2013. And I remember calling home, I think I was talking to my family, my parents or somebody, and I was like, this place is like high school.

00:29:12.000 Even on the House floor, that's the only time we're all together, usually for votes.

00:29:17.000 And you've got everybody, all 435 members there, and you see the little cliques gathering in their designated corners, like the cafeteria tables.

00:29:25.000 And, you know, one clique is kind of, you know, giving the mean girl's side eye to the other clique.

00:29:32.000 And like, oh, if you're hanging out on that side of the room with those people, what's wrong with you?

00:29:37.000 Really?

00:29:37.000 Yeah, man.

00:29:39.000 I mean, it's funny, but it's so terrible when you understand that this is the power base for decision-making in our country.

00:29:48.000 And you're like, how is this even possible?

00:29:50.000 It's possible because so often people will vote for a candidate because they have a really cool ad on TV or like, yeah, that person is a good-looking guy or a good-looking girl or they talk good, they talk nice.

00:30:06.000 Sounds smart.

00:30:07.000 Yeah, all right.

00:30:08.000 Rather than like, all right, what are your capabilities?

00:30:08.000 Check.

00:30:13.000 What are your qualifications?

00:30:14.000 Like, what kind of judgment will you exercise in making decisions that affect literally every single aspect of our lives as Americans in this country?

00:30:25.000 And so it's terrible that we have this kind of makeup in our government, but also, like, we as voters have to do a much—the power's in our hands, ultimately.

00:30:41.000 In how we're making decisions in choosing who gets to work for us.

00:30:46.000 And not forgetting that.

00:30:47.000 Not forgetting that those people who work in the United States Capitol, they work for us when it comes right down to it.

00:30:54.000 And so we have the power to hire and fire.

00:30:56.000 I think that people have developed such a sophisticated way of manipulating folks.

00:31:04.000 The thing about running for office, particularly running for president, it's one of the weirdest things where the most important job ever, you don't have to be qualified, you just have to be chosen.

00:31:20.000 So you don't have to have any experience in government.

00:31:22.000 You don't even really have to know how government works.

00:31:27.000 All you have to do is get enough people that are willing to give you a try and you can have the nuclear football.

00:31:34.000 Like, I'm not saying Trump, I'm not saying Biden, but if someone comes along...

00:31:52.000 I think? 0.99

00:31:58.000 And you like them over Marco Rubio or whoever the fuck it is, Ted Cruz. 1.00

00:32:03.000 You're like, well, that guy sucks. 1.00

00:32:05.000 This guy can sing his ass off. 1.00

00:32:07.000 Let's go with him.

00:32:08.000 But you're literally giving someone the power to run the greatest army the world has ever known.

00:32:14.000 The most insanely technologically advanced civilization on Earth and the one with the most weapons.

00:32:22.000 You're going to let a person who wins a popularity contest...

00:32:27.000 They can run this.

00:32:28.000 Yeah, man.

00:32:29.000 I mean, I lived through this.

00:32:30.000 I literally just lived through this.

00:32:32.000 But what's the alternative?

00:32:34.000 Well, people, first of all, need to kind of have the veil lifted on what this is and how both political parties play into this and the media plays into this.

00:32:47.000 I saw from the very day that I announced my candidacy for president.

00:32:53.000 I ran for president out of concern of some very real issues that our country is facing, wanting to bring voice to those issues and actually do something about it.

00:33:03.000 The rise of North Korea's nuclear capabilities, for example, and how we in Hawaii lived through the reality of that threat when we got that missile alert that came through.

00:33:18.000 Tell people about that real quick if they forgot about it.

00:33:37.000 The sirens on television saying, missile incoming to Hawaii.

00:33:45.000 This is not a drill.

00:33:47.000 Take shelter.

00:33:48.000 This is not a drill. 0.99

00:33:50.000 And so the response to that was like, holy shit, this could be the end. 0.98

00:33:58.000 An incoming missile to Hawaii from North Korea was Would literally mean the destruction, not only of Hawaii, but the aftermath and everything else would have a much, much bigger impact. 0.98

00:34:09.000 So that's how people responded, you know, grabbing their little kids and running in, like, where do you take shelter?

00:34:16.000 Like, going into the bathtub and hunkering down.

00:34:19.000 There was a video of a father who got his, like, little eight-year-old daughter and Lowered her down a manhole and was, I think he said something in the video, like, if we survive this, try to come find me.

00:34:36.000 And there are countless other stories of...

00:34:41.000 I heard from a father who he had one child who was in downtown Honolulu.

00:34:48.000 The other was on the west side of Oahu, which is a good 45-minute drive.

00:34:53.000 And he was physically in the middle.

00:34:55.000 And in those moments, he was sitting there knowing he had minutes to live, trying to decide which child he was going to go and drive to and spend those last minutes of life with.

00:35:14.000 The seriousness of this is something that has and continues to be lost on the leaders of our country.

00:35:23.000 And this was one of the main reasons that I ran for president, so that I could do something to make sure that no other American, no other family went through what we went through in Hawaii on that day.

00:35:37.000 I announce my candidacy for president so that we can talk about these very serious issues.

00:35:43.000 And on day one, immediately, literally that very day, within minutes, mainstream media starts attacking.

00:35:51.000 That's when the whole Russian... 1.00

00:35:53.000 Asset thing began.

00:35:54.000 These seeds were planted to say, oh, she's some kind of suspicious candidate. 0.64

00:35:57.000 You better watch out.

00:35:58.000 The smears started.

00:36:00.000 The building of this caricature of me as something that has nothing to do with who I am, my experience, my background, my capabilities, what I'm advocating for.

00:36:10.000 Nope.

00:36:11.000 The media didn't want to talk about that.

00:36:13.000 The other candidates didn't want to talk about it.

00:36:16.000 Going on the debate stage.

00:36:18.000 Okay, this is a national stage to be able to raise these very serious issues about the nuclear threat that our country faces, this new Cold War, and what we need to do to walk back away from the brink of nuclear catastrophe.

00:36:35.000 Yeah.

00:36:52.000 Is the ultimate disservice to voters because it takes away their ability to make this informed decision about who should hold the nuclear football and what experience they bring, what kind of judgment they would bring,

00:37:07.000 what kind of foresight they bring to this most powerful and important job and responsibility.

00:37:15.000 Now, having had the moment to step back away now that all is said and done and time has passed, what do you think was the catalyst?

00:37:25.000 Like, why did they immediately attack you?

00:37:28.000 Because I've talked to you about this before.

00:37:30.000 I've talked openly about this before.

00:37:31.000 If you want a woman president, you got one right there. 1.00

00:37:35.000 I mean, you're talking about, again, a woman who served twice overseas, congresswoman, all these great accolades.

00:37:43.000 You're an attractive woman.

00:37:45.000 You're very well-spoken.

00:37:47.000 What's missing?

00:37:50.000 I didn't understand.

00:37:51.000 I'm like, what is it about you that they decided they were going to attack? 0.99

00:37:56.000 Because as much as they could try, the biggest thing they had was this Russian asset shit. 0.99

00:38:02.000 So it's like this mysterious... 0.99

00:38:06.000 This foggy thing, like maybe she's an asset to Russia.

00:38:10.000 That was the best thing they could come up with, as much as they were trying to attack you.

00:38:14.000 So what was it about you?

00:38:17.000 What was it where they felt like you were a threat?

00:38:20.000 What was it about you?

00:38:21.000 Was it that you weren't willing to play games?

00:38:23.000 Or was it that you weren't...

00:38:26.000 You weren't beholden to the party line.

00:38:29.000 Like, what is it?

00:38:30.000 So they plant those seeds of doubt to try to get people to be like, I don't know about her. 0.53

00:38:37.000 I don't know.

00:38:38.000 I don't know if we can trust her.

00:38:39.000 But why would they do that to you?

00:38:40.000 Well, they refuse to engage on the substance, to argue against or agree with what I'm saying.

00:38:51.000 First of all, and second of all, my track record throughout my time serving in Congress pointed to the fact that I'm not willing to play their game.

00:39:02.000 I'm not willing to be anybody's puppet.

00:39:06.000 That I will speak out for ending these costly, destructive regime change wars.

00:39:13.000 I will speak out for ending I'm not taking the money that's coming from all of these different corporate PACs.

00:39:35.000 And the political party leadership that they're all in bed with, that ultimately my goal and my motivation is to be a voice for and to serve the American people and actually speak the truth.

00:39:51.000 Do you think that it's the unwillingness to take money from PACs?

00:39:57.000 I think it's a combination of all of those things that lead to the fact that I'm not going to dance their dance.

00:40:06.000 I'm not going to play their game.

00:40:08.000 I will not be controlled by anybody else, whether it's the political leadership, the corporate leadership, or whoever it is that's coming in.

00:40:38.000 Have you had conversations with people?

00:40:42.000 I have not directly been threatened with that or had those conversations because I don't take their money.

00:40:49.000 So they probably look at you like...

00:40:52.000 But I've been in the rooms where they have those conversations around...

00:40:54.000 I was vice chair of the DNC. Right.

00:40:59.000 Yeah.

00:41:00.000 Yeah.

00:41:03.000 Yeah.

00:41:12.000 They should have posters up all over the place saying, hey guys, these are the corporations that are paying for this thing that's supposed to be kind of one of the hallmarks of our democracy so that voters can actually see what's behind it.

00:41:26.000 Somebody had that in a comedy sketch, right?

00:41:27.000 Or was it Robin Williams or someone?

00:41:29.000 I forget who it was who had about their jackets should have labels on them just like a NASCAR car does.

00:41:36.000 So...

00:41:37.000 You've been in the room when people have had these conversations, but they've never brought it up to you.

00:41:43.000 Do you think that there's an assumption that you're not willing to play those games so it's a risky conversation to have?

00:41:51.000 Probably.

00:41:53.000 Probably.

00:41:54.000 There was one vote.

00:41:56.000 There was one vote that I don't remember what the vote was exactly, but I was not sure on how I was going to vote, and the vote was coming up pretty quick.

00:42:12.000 And it's, you know, these votes are often not so simple as, you know, they're usually complex because they're either – the bill is very big and there's – you've got to weigh the pros and the cons and the benefits and the risks and so on.

00:42:27.000 And I was not sure how I was going to vote on this bill.

00:42:31.000 And a couple of leaders within the Democratic Party pulled me off the side of the floor and said – You really need to vote with the Democrats on this, because if you don't, then you will help the quote unquote opposition beat Democrats in the next campaign.

00:42:54.000 That was essentially what they said.

00:42:58.000 And, you know, it was at that point that they lost me.

00:43:02.000 They didn't want to come and say, hey, Tulsi, here's why we think you should vote for this bill based on the substance.

00:43:09.000 That this is what this bill will do to help the American people in this country.

00:43:12.000 Instead, they came at me with a purely political argument and lost me right away.

00:43:19.000 The conversation basically ended there.

00:43:21.000 What is that feeling like when you're in that conversation?

00:43:24.000 Because that was the first time you had that kind of a conversation?

00:43:27.000 That directly.

00:43:29.000 That directly, yeah.

00:43:31.000 Was it a feeling of, were you disheartened by it?

00:43:35.000 Was it, why am I a congresswoman?

00:43:37.000 What am I doing here?

00:43:38.000 Was it upsetting?

00:43:40.000 It was disheartening because it showed that these people who I had worked with and around for quite some time really had no idea who I was and am and What drives my decisions on the votes that I take,

00:44:00.000 for example, and that something like that would not only not work, but would further hurt their cause.

00:44:13.000 And it was disheartening because it was yet another indicator of what drives the political decisions being made by some of the most powerful people in our country.

00:44:25.000 Is that?

00:44:25.000 What's going to win the next election?

00:44:27.000 What's going to help us or what's going to hurt us?

00:44:30.000 What can we use against the other guys in order to be more successful and either gain power or hold on to power?

00:44:37.000 And that's where if you look at, and there is, there's so much legitimate frustration about why isn't Congress doing something about this?

00:44:43.000 We saw this around the stimulus checks, the direct checks just a few months ago and how those so-called negotiations dragged on for months and months and months and months.

00:44:55.000 All of a sudden, they get an agreement right after the election is over.

00:44:59.000 It's literally playing politics with people's lives.

00:45:01.000 You got people losing their jobs, people stuck at home, people worried about being homeless, who that one-time check of $1,400, $2,000, whatever it is, that can be the difference for them between food or no food, home or no home.

00:45:17.000 And yet you have people in Washington playing politics, worried about, well, if we do this now, it might help Trump.

00:45:22.000 Or if we do this now, it might help...

00:45:25.000 Yeah, that was the conspiracy theory.

00:45:28.000 The conspiracy theory was that part of the reason why the stimulus checks hadn't gone out, part of the reason why, you know, there was so much stricter lockdown and economic damage because of those lockdowns in Democratic states was because they were concerned that if the economy rebooted and started going back up again,

00:45:48.000 that it would help Trump.

00:45:49.000 And Trump would be able to say, hey, you know, everything's doing great again.

00:45:53.000 We're going to make America great once again.

00:45:55.000 We're past this COVID. It's going to keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

00:45:59.000 And people would be like, yep, he's right.

00:46:01.000 Hey, he really did have the economy booming before that COVID hit.

00:46:05.000 Hey, we really were doing better than ever with unemployment.

00:46:09.000 And that's a terrible conspiracy.

00:46:11.000 It's a terrible thing to even consider.

00:46:14.000 And I hate even bringing it up.

00:46:17.000 But man, it's crazy how much devastation has happened in so many of these communities, in so many of these cities, and how little consideration they've put into the fact that these people are losing everything they've ever worked for.

00:46:34.000 They seem to think this is the only solution.

00:46:36.000 The only solution is this.

00:46:37.000 But you look at other states and you go, well, that's not true.

00:46:40.000 Other states have managed to save far more businesses by allowing people to make their own decisions.

00:46:46.000 And it's a horrible conspiracy.

00:46:49.000 It's horrible to even consider that one of the reasons why the strictest lockdowns have taken place in the blue states and the blue cities is because they were concerned with the economy rebounding.

00:47:02.000 Yeah, I want to talk about the lockdowns and COVID, but just on that point that it's not such a stretch as to call it a conspiracy, because things like this happen in Washington all the time.

00:47:17.000 And one of the clearest examples was around this bill called the First Step Act.

00:47:22.000 I think?

00:47:48.000 In the room and around whatever her boyfriend was doing, this bill would have made it so that these people got to go home to their families. 0.63

00:47:56.000 As we were working to try to pass this bill, and it was a bipartisan bill, both in the House and the Senate, and it had the President Trump's support, there were very prominent Democrats who publicly were saying Don't support this bill because it's not perfect and because if it was passed,

00:48:22.000 then Donald Trump would be able to say he did it, that this was a victory and, you know, a feather in his cap and that he'd be able to go across the country and say, hey, look what I did.

00:48:33.000 I think?

00:48:54.000 The consequences of that.

00:48:56.000 It's about politics, and we don't want that guy to get a win at all.

00:49:02.000 That's crazy.

00:49:03.000 It is absolutely crazy.

00:49:04.000 So, I mean, there's a good ending to this story in that this bill did eventually get passed.

00:49:08.000 So those people who are advocating for that lost.

00:49:11.000 But it provides a window into that mindset, that dangerous mindset, of leaders in both political parties who are willing to sacrifice The well-being and the lives of the American people to advance their own political ambition and cause and power.

00:49:31.000 It's so disgusting. 0.98

00:49:32.000 It is disgusting. 0.95

00:49:33.000 It's so scary too.

00:49:34.000 It's so scary to think that this is something they can justify.

00:49:36.000 These people that are representatives of the American people, they think that this is the way to go about business because Donald Trump is bad.

00:49:43.000 This is their mind.

00:49:45.000 No matter what you do, don't help Donald Trump.

00:49:49.000 We've seen this, I think, exacerbated over this past administration, but this is not something new either.

00:49:58.000 I mean, this is something that has, I think, been increasingly becoming more and more of a problem that's gotten us to this point of where we are.

00:50:07.000 That's so hard to hear.

00:50:08.000 It's so hard to hear because what you just said should be criminal because that is not representing people.

00:50:16.000 It's not representing innocent people.

00:50:17.000 It's not representing people that are unjustly accused.

00:50:20.000 It's not representing our legal system in the best form of it possible.

00:50:25.000 It's awful.

00:50:27.000 It is.

00:50:29.000 I just, I want to keep going back to, because I don't want to just be all about, we have to be about solutions as well.

00:50:37.000 And I think that if we look back to the country that our founders...

00:50:44.000 Envisioned for us and those foundational pillars that are put in place, the central part of that is our democracy.

00:50:54.000 And so as we may feel hopeless at times, like there's like, what in the world can we do against these powerful forces of darkness and greed and power and so on?

00:51:08.000 The mechanism that is in place for us to change this is through our elections.

00:51:14.000 And as many people who, you know, there are, I mean, people feel hopeless, like, why even bother to go vote?

00:51:21.000 Why even bother because I'm just one person or my voice doesn't have...

00:51:25.000 Power.

00:51:26.000 This is the power that we have in our hands to start to change this.

00:51:31.000 There is nothing stopping us from going to the ballot box and saying, like, you guys had your chance and you have not fulfilled that incredible trust and responsibility that we as voters have placed in you.

00:51:45.000 You're out.

00:51:46.000 And choose leaders who are committed to that mission of service, that servant leadership, looking out for the best interests of the American people in our country.

00:51:57.000 I think there's also a problem where people don't know whether or not their leaders are looking out for the best interests of the people.

00:52:03.000 They don't know.

00:52:05.000 They want to believe, and they don't really have enough time to find out either.

00:52:09.000 Most people are filled, their days are filled, right?

00:52:12.000 They have a job, they have a family, they have a mortgage, they have crises of their own, they have their own hobbies and needs, and then they have to vote for mayor. 1.00

00:52:21.000 Like, gosh, shit. 0.99

00:52:22.000 Like, what's this guy doing? 1.00

00:52:24.000 What's his deal?

00:52:25.000 Oh, I heard some bad things about him.

00:52:26.000 I heard he's a Russian asset, right?

00:52:28.000 I mean, that's literally the kind of cursory examination that most people have of elected officials.

00:52:35.000 This is why it's so important for us to be able to have fair and balanced and unbiased sources of information and media to turn to.

00:52:47.000 Because people are busy and they don't have time.

00:52:50.000 I go through a ton of different news sources every day and try to figure out the reality of what may be happening here or in different parts of the world.

00:52:58.000 Most people don't have the ability to focus on that.

00:53:02.000 I introduced legislation called Reinstate the Fairness Doctrine Act, which the fairness doctrine was in place essentially to hold the news media that uses our public airwaves to When was

00:53:34.000 it repealed?

00:53:47.000 I believe it was repealed during the Reagan administration.

00:53:52.000 Makes sense.

00:53:54.000 It would go a long way towards providing more of that balanced news coming from those, again, who are using the public airwaves.

00:54:03.000 And secondly, I think that the more people are aware that we have an incredibly biased corporate media that is driven by profits, not by actually a sense of responsibility to the public,

00:54:19.000 then, you know, I think there's opportunities to look for, and I think we've got to do our best to try to create those balanced news platforms that not only just report facts and information, but also represent views from across the spectrum.

00:54:33.000 Now, would that apply to only broadcast television, like NBC, ABC, CBS, like that kind of stuff?

00:54:39.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:54:40.000 But that's a problem, because nobody's watching that shit anyway. 0.99

00:54:44.000 Isn't it a problem? 1.00

00:54:45.000 I mean, cable news is where the meat is.

00:54:48.000 Right?

00:54:49.000 That's where the real battle's going down.

00:54:52.000 And you have two entities.

00:54:54.000 And one of the things that Taibbi outlines so well in his book is what went wrong with the Trump thing. 0.99

00:55:00.000 Is that initially Trump was this buffoon who was running for president, who was saying a bunch of crazy shit, and everybody thought he was not going to win. 0.99

00:55:07.000 And so they would highlight how ridiculous he was, thinking that what that would do was going to make people dismiss him as a real candidate. 0.99

00:55:17.000 And even, you know, respectable newspapers and respectable television shows like CNN and New York Times are saying Hillary Clinton's like 96% likely to win. 0.94

00:55:29.000 So they had put all of this...

00:55:45.000 We're good to go.

00:55:52.000 And then once he wins, they shifted gears.

00:55:55.000 They go, okay, we have to change and now just attack him at every turn.

00:55:59.000 And during that time, this is one of the things of the book where they're describing the record profits they were making because it's extremely profitable to put something on television that everybody's watching. 1.00

00:56:12.000 If Trump is saying Mexicans are all rapists, everybody's like, holy shit, he said what? 0.99

00:56:17.000 And the ratings would go up. 1.00

00:56:18.000 So every time he would say something ridiculous like that, they would make money.

00:56:23.000 And then the money went from that to the money got made in... 0.96

00:56:28.000 Highlighting everything that's wrong with him.

00:56:30.000 And then the money came from turning him into this, it wasn't that hard, but turning him into this mega villain, right?

00:56:38.000 And then the money on Fox was highlighting how bad the liberals were. 0.92

00:56:44.000 Highlighting how ridiculous they were being about all the different, how Trump derangement syndrome is ruining our democracy. 0.64

00:56:52.000 And to watch those two things play out against each other simultaneously, it's a wild thing to see. 0.88

00:57:00.000 And, I mean, the politicians were doing the same thing.

00:57:03.000 Yes.

00:57:03.000 You know, you just pointed out you've got cable news that hates Trump, cable news that loves Trump, the same thing that they're doing, all that they're doing, ultimately, for ratings, more money.

00:57:13.000 You have the same thing happening in Washington with one party that hates Trump.

00:57:18.000 The other party that loves Trump.

00:57:20.000 And using all of this fodder, you know, reporting like historic levels of fundraising for their party, one party or another.

00:57:29.000 All of it centered around this Trump consciousness, this obsession with Trump every single day.

00:57:39.000 And we've, you know, we've gone through this now for not only the last four years.

00:57:42.000 You go back to the campaigns, the last five, six years.

00:57:46.000 That we as a country have lived through this, profiting essentially off of Trumpism.

00:57:53.000 And meanwhile, while this is happening, there are incredibly important issues that are not being talked about.

00:58:02.000 Not being reported on, not being acted on by Congress.

00:58:17.000 You have this basically tearing up and destroying these nuclear nonproliferation treaties that are supposed to keep us in the world more safe from a potential nuclear war.

00:58:33.000 Those are all gone.

00:58:34.000 And there's a nuclear arms race that is ensuing now and a new Cold War between the US and Russia and China, these two other nuclear-armed countries.

00:58:41.000 You have, you know, our agriculture, our environment, you have, you know, bees and bugs and butterflies now being destroyed and posing a great threat to our ability to grow crops, not only here, but around the world.

00:58:56.000 There are so many different issues, very, very real serious issues.

00:59:01.000 Have you heard much about that at all over the last few years?

00:59:04.000 No.

00:59:05.000 Have you seen action by Congress to address these very real issues?

00:59:09.000 No.

00:59:10.000 Why?

00:59:11.000 It's because they're all looking at, hey, how do we profit off of Trump?

00:59:15.000 So I think today is the perfect day to leave this Trumpism, this Trump consciousness, this obsession behind.

00:59:24.000 And Focus on the future.

00:59:27.000 Focus on these real issues.

00:59:28.000 Focus on these real challenges and how we as a country need to come together to be able to solve them and not contribute to the mess and the destruction and the nonsense that we've seen play out over these last several years.

00:59:47.000 I agree with you wholeheartedly.

00:59:49.000 Because they're going to try to play it out longer.

00:59:50.000 Because I'll bet you anything, people are sitting around in these cable newsrooms right now How are we going to make money?

00:59:57.000 What are we going to focus on now?

00:59:59.000 What are we going to talk about now?

01:00:02.000 I think the more of us who choose not to contribute to be a part of that and contribute to that and lend our eyeballs or our mind or our time to that, the more quickly we can try to force the conversation towards things that actually matter to us.

01:00:18.000 Yeah, I completely agree with you, but I don't see anybody else agreeing with you.

01:00:23.000 This is what bothers me the most.

01:00:24.000 There's more of us than them, though.

01:00:26.000 That's the thing.

01:00:27.000 I think you're right, but it's not a popular thing that gets distributed.

01:00:29.000 It's not a popular thing that gets – it's not out there.

01:00:32.000 Yeah.

01:00:33.000 This is not – You got a lot of eyeballs and ears on your platform, sir.

01:00:37.000 So I think we can spark something.

01:00:39.000 I hope so.

01:00:40.000 To make, really seriously, make some real change and take the spotlight away from where it's been and focus it where it should be, which is on the people whose voices really have not been heard throughout this time.

01:00:54.000 Well, they still would like there to be some representative that they can hang their hat on.

01:01:00.000 Like someone who's like, that's my guy.

01:01:02.000 She's my woman.

01:01:03.000 Like, this makes sense.

01:01:04.000 I like the way they think.

01:01:06.000 And I don't see a lot of that out there right now.

01:01:10.000 I don't see someone who's not particularly invested in the party, but more so invested in all these problems that you're talking about.

01:01:19.000 And about, you know, saying that we have to abandon all this partisan bullshit, all this pettiness, and all this divisiveness that we've lived off the last four years. 0.69

01:01:29.000 And particularly these organizations, like you were saying, like cable news. 0.94

01:01:33.000 Like, that's their business model.

01:01:35.000 Like, what are you asking them to do?

01:01:36.000 Like, start becoming a charitable organization?

01:01:39.000 Like, what are they going to do?

01:01:40.000 This is what they do. 1.00

01:01:41.000 They stir shit up. 0.99

01:01:43.000 So we can impact that, though. 1.00

01:01:45.000 We can impact that by not buying their shit. 0.99

01:01:48.000 Well, I think it's going to happen, whether they like it or not. 1.00

01:01:50.000 And this is where I think we've already seen a trend of people who are taking their attention away from that model and the crap that they're selling. 0.96

01:01:50.000 Exactly. 0.96

01:02:02.000 And instead, they're looking for new media, alternative media, other voices, other platforms that are actually going in-depth and talking about real things that matter, about real issues that matter, having real conversations.

01:02:18.000 Yeah.

01:02:19.000 Mom, that's what we'd hope for. 0.99

01:02:23.000 Another thing I heard, this is really crazy, that Trump is going to start a third party that he's been talking about starting a party called the Patriot Party, which is like, holy shit. 0.98

01:02:34.000 I don't know anything about that. 0.98

01:02:37.000 Again, rearview mirror.

01:02:39.000 Rearview mirror.

01:02:40.000 I don't believe he's going to be in the rearview mirror.

01:02:42.000 I just don't.

01:02:43.000 I think people are going to get bored.

01:02:44.000 I think a few months will go by or whatever it is until he's in the news again.

01:02:49.000 And then it just won't be exciting without him.

01:02:52.000 And then I think we need a foil.

01:02:55.000 We need someone. 0.98

01:02:57.000 Look, the fucking 2021 season, it's going to be pretty boring if Trump's not involved at all. 0.98

01:03:03.000 Like, if this was a long-running show, like Ozark or something like that, right? 0.98

01:03:08.000 Oh, gosh.

01:03:08.000 And we get to the new season when he steps down.

01:03:13.000 Like, this can't be it.

01:03:14.000 Oh, I see what they're going to do.

01:03:15.000 They're going to pretend that everything's going to be fine.

01:03:17.000 We've got Biden.

01:03:17.000 We've got Harris.

01:03:18.000 We've got a lot of really diverse people in the cabinet.

01:03:23.000 This is going to be wonderful.

01:03:25.000 We got it.

01:03:26.000 We nailed it.

01:03:26.000 Everything's great.

01:03:27.000 And then something.

01:03:30.000 That's what the worry is.

01:03:32.000 Well, I mean, look, there are, sadly, a lot of really important and serious things that we could and should be talking about that should capture our attention.

01:03:32.000 Yeah.

01:03:45.000 Yeah.

01:03:45.000 And be able to, as the people, provide that pressure to our leadership and hold them accountable to For whether or not they're doing their job and actually working for the people or not.

01:03:59.000 But you're talking like a reasonable, responsible person.

01:04:04.000 That's not human.

01:04:06.000 There's not that many of you out there.

01:04:07.000 I think there are, Joe.

01:04:09.000 I think there are.

01:04:10.000 I think we're a bunch of grown-up babies with phones and we're just tweeting up a storm and watching YouTube videos.

01:04:16.000 That's what I think.

01:04:17.000 I think people are so addicted to this drama.

01:04:21.000 I mean, my God, watching Twitter over the last few days has been like watching people complete an ultramarathon.

01:04:29.000 Like, they're like, we're getting to the finish line!

01:04:31.000 We're there!

01:04:32.000 We're there!

01:04:32.000 They crossed the line.

01:04:33.000 Yeah!

01:04:34.000 We made it!

01:04:35.000 We did it!

01:04:36.000 It's over! 1.00

01:04:37.000 Fuck you! 1.00

01:04:37.000 There's so many people having memes and this and these self-aggrandizing posts about directly to Trump. 1.00

01:04:47.000 Dear Mr. President, fuck you and this and that and celebrities are doing and all these people are getting in on it. 0.99

01:04:54.000 It is a fascinating thing to watch because I'm like, okay, you made it across the line. 1.00

01:04:58.000 Now what?

01:05:00.000 What happens next?

01:05:01.000 What are you going to do with all this?

01:05:02.000 You like the fight.

01:05:04.000 You like the conflict.

01:05:05.000 What are you going to do with all this energy?

01:05:07.000 You got this conflict energy.

01:05:08.000 Let's re-channel that.

01:05:09.000 Let's re-channel that.

01:05:10.000 To actually fight for the people against those who wield the power.

01:05:10.000 To real problems?

01:05:17.000 Yeah, but that's not fun.

01:05:18.000 What's fun is a bad guy.

01:05:19.000 Bad guys are fun.

01:05:20.000 We need another bad guy.

01:05:21.000 We got plenty of those, trust me.

01:05:23.000 We got plenty of bad guys.

01:05:24.000 I know, but we don't have a bad guy like Trump.

01:05:26.000 But here's the thing, and I agree, people who have been looking forward to January 20th as though this is going to solve all of the problems.

01:05:40.000 Yeah.

01:05:41.000 That our country has faced are missing the reality that the way we got here are because of some deeply seated problems that have pre-existed the previous administration and that still exist in our country today,

01:06:00.000 which is why I think it's so dangerous Yeah.

01:06:13.000 Yeah.

01:06:15.000 Yeah.

01:06:27.000 The reality of how dangerous that train of thought, I think, is going to continue to reveal itself unless, look, you know, Joe Biden gave a very unifying speech for his inauguration.

01:06:46.000 The pressure is on him to deliver.

01:06:49.000 For the country's sake, I wish him well in working towards that.

01:06:55.000 But it's not going to be an easy task.

01:06:57.000 And ultimately, he will be held accountable for his own actions.

01:07:03.000 In whether he is able to be that unifying force or if we end up seeing and address some of these deeper-seated problems.

01:07:12.000 He said in his speech that whether you voted for him or not, that his goal is to serve you, the American people.

01:07:21.000 Again, the pressure will be now on him to actually show that is true through his actions and actually actively reaching out to those 70-plus million people who didn't vote for him.

01:07:33.000 Yeah, I mean, it would be wonderful if we all got together united and said, let's wish him well and let's cheer him on and hope he does a fantastic job.

01:07:46.000 And all of you Trump supporters who thought that he was a puppet of the institution, wish him well.

01:07:52.000 For our country's sake.

01:07:54.000 Be happy if he's right and you were wrong.

01:07:57.000 My concern is that one of the things that Trump did that was really...

01:08:01.000 What was disturbing was this narrative that the elections were stolen and that he won by a landslide and even using certain things as an example that were easily disproven.

01:08:17.000 Like one of the things that he used as an example, Kyle Kalinske actually discussed it on the show.

01:08:22.000 We did an election day show and Kyle Kalinske was explaining Pennsylvania.

01:08:27.000 And he said the way Pennsylvania works is the first votes they count are the walk-up votes, the people that actually go to the polls.

01:08:35.000 Those votes are going to lean heavy in Trump's favor because he's put out this narrative, go vote in person, whereas the Democrats have put out this narrative to mail in your vote.

01:08:47.000 So the first votes that get counted are going to be the votes of the people that walk up.

01:08:50.000 It's going to skew heavily towards Trump.

01:08:52.000 But then once they count those, And they start counting the mail-in votes, it's going to lean much heavier towards Biden.

01:08:59.000 And people are going to call shenanigans, but this is why it's happening.

01:09:03.000 So Kyle Kulinski lays this all out on the show day of the election.

01:09:08.000 It plays out exactly, exactly like he said.

01:09:13.000 Trump was way ahead, then they start counting in the mail-in votes.

01:09:16.000 The mail-in votes lean very heavily towards Biden.

01:09:18.000 Biden ultimately winds up winning.

01:09:20.000 But the way Trump describes it...

01:09:22.000 As if it's this grand scheme.

01:09:25.000 We go to bed, and all of a sudden, you know, we go to bed way ahead, and then all of a sudden, they magically find all these votes, and then it leans towards Biden, like, no, no, no, no, no.

01:09:34.000 This is how it was going to go.

01:09:36.000 If you are a political pundit, and you understand the system and how it works, this was how it's going to go. 0.99

01:09:42.000 So all the people that are the same people like, oh, I heard she's a Russian asset, the people that give a cursory examination of all these different things that don't have the time to go on these deep dives, They're all going to hear that story and go, did you hear what they did in Pennsylvania, those sons of bitches? 0.99

01:09:55.000 In the middle of the night, they came in with trucks of fucking ballots and all went to Biden mysteriously. 0.99

01:10:01.000 Or the thing that happened in Georgia when they were saying, oh, they were hiding ballots underneath the table. 0.99

01:10:07.000 And then when the people that were observing left, then they pulled the ballots out.

01:10:11.000 But no, you hear from the actual Georgia official, and he goes, that's not what happened at all.

01:10:16.000 Here, you can see them bringing...

01:10:18.000 Here's the video of them bringing in those ballots.

01:10:20.000 They store them under the table because you've got a limited amount of room to move.

01:10:24.000 They stored it under the table in clear view of these observers.

01:10:28.000 They were told that they were going to go home, and then they got a phone call saying, no, you need to keep counting.

01:10:34.000 So after these people left, that's when they get the call, and they say, okay, let's keep counting.

01:10:39.000 So they pull those ballots out.

01:10:41.000 But...

01:10:41.000 It gets talked about by Rudy Giuliani and all these other people like, oh, this is this nefarious plot.

01:10:47.000 They hid these ballots underneath the table.

01:10:49.000 And if you're just looking at the video footage from a surveillance camera and you don't know exactly what happened, that scenario makes sense to you.

01:10:57.000 So there's so many people that have this distorted perception of what went down and they really believe that this was all stolen.

01:11:05.000 Now, here's another problem.

01:11:06.000 The amount of A voter fraud is not zero.

01:11:11.000 It's never zero.

01:11:12.000 That's true.

01:11:13.000 It's not zero.

01:11:14.000 So if you ask somebody, is there any voter fraud?

01:11:16.000 They have to say yes.

01:11:17.000 Because it is.

01:11:18.000 There's some voter fraud.

01:11:19.000 There's probably voter fraud left, and there's probably voter fraud right.

01:11:23.000 And Nancy Pelosi was saying that the election was rigged in 2016. She was saying that it was a scam.

01:11:29.000 She put it on her Twitter.

01:11:30.000 This is the same exact thing that Republicans are doing today, and they're calling for them to resign from Congress.

01:11:37.000 So, um...

01:11:39.000 You see how political parties use certain narratives to their advantage depending on if it is.

01:11:46.000 If it's their name, their party, their candidate that's on the block or not.

01:11:54.000 And again, this goes back to how dangerous this hyper-partisan divisiveness is when you've got people in positions of power and influence manipulating the narrative according to serves their own interests.

01:12:10.000 The hypocrisy of this is very evident, and the hypocrisy of these same leaders in making a big stink about these things when it serves their interest but turning a blind eye when it doesn't.

01:12:27.000 Yeah.

01:12:48.000 In theory, if any of these systems were hacked in any kind of way where you could manipulate the outcome of, you know, manipulate people's votes to swing the election one way or the other, there would not be an auditable paper trail that, you know, election officials could use to point to,

01:13:06.000 okay, well, this is actually how many people voted for this candidate or that candidate, but this is where the electronic system was manipulated and got it wrong.

01:13:13.000 Yeah.

01:13:38.000 I've gone and I used the machine there before and you punch it in and before you submit your ballot, it's got a printout that says, okay, these are all your candidates.

01:13:47.000 If it's correct, you submit and they keep that paper backup on hand or you just use a paper ballot.

01:13:52.000 Either way, you have an auditable paper trail and it would have provided federal funding for states to be able to implement this and put it in action.

01:14:00.000 Made the case to Republican and Democratic leaders.

01:14:03.000 Pass this bill.

01:14:04.000 2020 is a big election coming up.

01:14:06.000 We want to make sure that we reduce the amount of vulnerabilities that exist and maintain the integrity of our election so that people aren't raising these concerns.

01:14:16.000 There should be any question in people's minds that these electronic systems have any vulnerability at all.

01:14:23.000 Congress chose not to pass the bill.

01:14:26.000 Was there arguments against it?

01:14:28.000 Not that I heard.

01:14:29.000 So what was the reason why they went against it?

01:14:33.000 I mean, it just wasn't done.

01:14:35.000 There were no legitimate arguments against it.

01:14:38.000 I heard some states saying like, oh, well, we don't know if we want to change it or whatever, but if the federal government had the ability to go in and that's what my bill did, it tied this change to federal funding to administer the elections,

01:14:54.000 to provide that as an incentive.

01:14:55.000 So the point is, To have some foresight and have leaders with foresight in Congress to say, you know what, 2020 is going to be a big election.

01:15:02.000 There'll be a lot of eyes on it.

01:15:04.000 Critical outcome one way or the other.

01:15:07.000 Let's take action now in order to prevent people questioning the integrity of our election and therefore our democracy.

01:15:17.000 Many of those same people who are complaining or raising concerns about this today are people who chose not to take action that could have prevented us in large part from being in the situation that we are in.

01:15:33.000 So holding these leaders accountable and calling them on their crap I don't understand what the incentive would be to not pass this.

01:15:46.000 Is there a financial burden that's attached to this? 0.99

01:15:49.000 Is it prohibitively expensive?

01:15:51.000 I mean, it is not prohibitively expensive.

01:15:53.000 I mean, some states just went and did it on their own because they recognize—I believe Virginia was one of them— They hold off-year state elections in the odd years, and they recognize the threat of this because there's like a hacking convention in Vegas every couple of years or something,

01:16:10.000 and they bring in all of these, even young teenagers.

01:16:14.000 And they had this thing called Election Village, and they showed, they used replica electronic voting systems from different states.

01:16:22.000 And some of these kids hacked into these systems within 10 minutes, 15 minutes.

01:16:27.000 An 11-year-old changed election results on a replica Florida state website in under 10 minutes.

01:16:33.000 Look at her.

01:16:33.000 Yep.

01:16:34.000 Wizard. 0.98

01:16:35.000 I wonder if that's the real kid, because that's kind of fucked up if it is. 0.99

01:16:35.000 Done. 0.99

01:16:39.000 That is, the real kid.

01:16:40.000 Oh my god.

01:16:42.000 Why are they showing these kids faces?

01:16:44.000 Oh my god, right?

01:16:44.000 She's probably being heavily recruited, man.

01:16:45.000 The fucking Russians are right now knocking on their door. 1.00

01:16:47.000 Good evening. 1.00

01:16:48.000 Like to talk to a child that's 11 years old?

01:16:52.000 We have questions of what you learn and how you learn.

01:16:57.000 That right there, though, that is states like Virginia said, like, that is a serious problem.

01:17:03.000 And they spent the money and they fixed it.

01:17:06.000 And some Virginia election officials came before Congress and said, hey, we did this.

01:17:11.000 It worked really well.

01:17:12.000 And it's the first time we've not had any complaints about the integrity of our election systems.

01:17:17.000 Did you ever see Hacking Democracy, the HBO documentary?

01:17:20.000 No.

01:17:21.000 It was about the Diebolt machines, the same issue that happened in the past.

01:17:25.000 And it showed on the documentary that they could adjust the results.

01:17:31.000 They could adjust the results because there was a built-in, into the Diebolt systems, there was a built-in access for a third party.

01:17:38.000 Wow.

01:17:39.000 Whatever.

01:17:40.000 What's the big deal, Tulsi?

01:17:42.000 Just our democracy?

01:17:44.000 Let's talk about pronouns, because that's what's important.

01:17:47.000 The amount of distractions that people are subject to today, too, is also unprecedented because of social media.

01:17:54.000 So concentrating on these key issues and really important things like murder hornets, it's hard. 0.99

01:17:59.000 It's hard to do because there's so much shit going on. 0.98

01:18:02.000 It's like your news feed is constantly inundated with things. 0.98

01:18:07.000 You look at the first thing that this new Congress did, the 117th Congress, right after being sworn in the first week of January.

01:18:19.000 Instead of, say, passing a bill that would mandate that limited resource of vaccines that we have go directly towards the most vulnerable seniors who are right now dying at the highest rates because of COVID,

01:18:35.000 instead of doing something real and important that would actually save people's lives and Reduce hospitalizations in this country.

01:19:08.000 It's not mother or father.

01:19:09.000 It's now parent.

01:19:10.000 It is now parent-in-law, not mother-in-law or father-in-law.

01:19:15.000 It is now child or sibling.

01:19:19.000 You say parent's brother, I think is what they said, or parent's sister.

01:19:23.000 Which parent?

01:19:25.000 Exactly.

01:19:26.000 Which one?

01:19:27.000 I don't know.

01:19:27.000 You can say parent's brother?

01:19:28.000 Right.

01:19:28.000 So that's gendered, though.

01:19:30.000 What if she chooses to now be a woman? 0.99

01:19:30.000 Right. 0.99

01:19:33.000 Parent sibling.

01:19:33.000 It would be parent sibling.

01:19:34.000 That's what it would be.

01:19:35.000 But this is all very important.

01:19:36.000 But this is what I'm talking about, though.

01:19:38.000 And this is where people just like, give me a break.

01:19:41.000 Give me a break.

01:19:41.000 This is the most important thing that you feel is the highest priority to take action on in this new year, in this new Congress.

01:19:47.000 Yeah.

01:19:48.000 Well, if you're on Twitter, that is the most important thing, or the least important thing, depending upon what Twitter feed you follow.

01:19:55.000 I'm concerned, and like I said, I'm concerned about the way Trump rejected the election results, that they're similar to the way a lot of the Democrats rejected the 2016 results, and that I understand that they want their side to win,

01:20:15.000 but I don't think they understand The ultimately corrosive impact this is going to have on the confidence that people have in democracy.

01:20:34.000 This is what the most recent...

01:20:36.000 See if you can find this.

01:20:37.000 Republicans that believe the election results were illegitimate.

01:20:41.000 I think it was in the 70s, which is just bananas.

01:20:46.000 I mean, even if you asked Democrats after 2016, I don't think it would be that high.

01:20:51.000 Maybe if you said how many people believe Russia had a part in Donald Trump being elected, maybe that would be a little higher.

01:20:57.000 But at least they probably thought that the people that voted, voted.

01:21:02.000 Like, that it was probably ultimately representative of how the people voted.

01:21:06.000 They thought those people had been misled.

01:21:08.000 They probably thought propaganda was involved and there was a bunch of, you know, really incorrect stuff that was said that led people to vote the wrong way.

01:21:16.000 But I think they probably more or less believed that Donald Trump won.

01:21:21.000 It was probably very disheartening.

01:21:23.000 I don't know.

01:21:24.000 I mean, if you talk to Hillary Clinton, she won.

01:21:26.000 I don't talk to that lady. 1.00

01:21:28.000 Ha ha ha!

01:21:30.000 Well, anybody who does.

01:21:32.000 Yeah.

01:21:33.000 Well, she did win the public. 1.00

01:21:34.000 I mean, she won the popular vote.

01:21:36.000 She really did.

01:21:37.000 I mean, that's a fact, right?

01:21:39.000 So that kind of goes against the Russian narrative right there.

01:21:42.000 It's like, what a slippery game you're playing.

01:21:44.000 You're going to let more people vote for Hillary, but just the right amount in the swing states so you get the Electoral College vote? 1.00

01:21:51.000 Yeah.

01:21:51.000 The danger of overall eroding people's confidence in our elections and the integrity of our elections.

01:22:00.000 And I think the whole kind of cancel culture goes along with this.

01:22:06.000 And the censorship and the suppression of people's free speech is because if they feel that they don't have a voice to speak properly, Right.

01:22:26.000 Right.

01:22:43.000 And this is the dangerous consequence of where this partisan divisiveness takes us.

01:22:51.000 And it also points to the dangerous normalization of this kind of politically driven violence where one side kind of says, well, it's okay if I agree with your motivation for going and burning down buildings and rioting and looting and whatnot.

01:23:12.000 But it's not okay if I disagree with the motivation of these other people.

01:23:18.000 And that normalization of taking kind of the conflict culture that exists online and is now being embodied and manifested in reality in different ways, again, as a symptom and a byproduct of this hyper-partisanship and this divisiveness,

01:23:38.000 This is the dangerous reality that is coming about because of people who are more interested in their power than they are interested in the wellbeing of our country, our freedom, and the American people.

01:23:51.000 So much of this just comes down to leadership.

01:23:54.000 Or the lack thereof.

01:23:55.000 And people who are more interested in serving their own selfish interests rather than fulfilling this huge obligation and responsibility to serve the interests of the people first.

01:24:06.000 Not just selfish interests, but also tribal interests.

01:24:09.000 Yes.

01:24:09.000 The interests of the Democratic tribe or the Republican tribe.

01:24:11.000 Yes.

01:24:12.000 That's, like I said, what I'm really worried about with the way Trump is addressing his loss is that this January 6th thing that we saw is indicative of that.

01:24:22.000 And then, you know, I mean, and then he, like, denounced the people who did it.

01:24:26.000 Like, he's telling them that you have to be strong.

01:24:28.000 You need to show a show of force.

01:24:30.000 And these people stormed.

01:24:32.000 I mean, they had the ultimate show of force.

01:24:33.000 They literally knocked over security guards, beat a guy to death, stormed the Capitol. 0.98

01:24:38.000 The whole thing is so fucking strange. 0.96

01:24:41.000 And hearing that he wants to start another party, like, oh, Jesus Christ, and call it the Patriot Party? 0.98

01:24:47.000 What?

01:24:50.000 Remember the Patriot Act?

01:24:52.000 Yeah, that's unpatriotic. 0.98

01:24:54.000 And not only that, calling it the Patriot Party, but it's almost like what I would expect out of whoever's writing this goofy fucking script for this wacky show we're on. 0.98

01:25:05.000 Like, yeah, that's what it would be. 0.96

01:25:07.000 The guy who left off, now he's going to start the Patriot Party.

01:25:10.000 And all the true patriots are going to line up for him.

01:25:13.000 Look, there's a lot of people out there that are dying for someone to tell them what to do.

01:25:17.000 And that's scary.

01:25:18.000 That's a real problem.

01:25:19.000 It's a real problem.

01:25:21.000 There's so much fear that's out there.

01:25:26.000 There's a lot of pain, a lot of frustration.

01:25:31.000 And my hope is, I want to be really optimistic here, my hope is that by getting to a place where we can see each other once again as Americans, And not one side—and you talked about tribalism,

01:25:48.000 like my tribe is the good guys and your tribe is the bad guys.

01:25:52.000 You're the enemy.

01:25:53.000 We're not—is that when we can get back to a place where we see each other as Americans and respect each other— And go back to the fundamentals of this country, then we have the ability to have a real dialogue and not to say that we're going to agree on everything,

01:26:14.000 not to say we're not going to have fierce debates on substance around how we solve the great problems of our time.

01:26:19.000 But when we come from that place of saying that we know we need to solve these problems for the sake of the people in our country, Then we know we will end up in a good place with a positive outcome.

01:26:31.000 One thing that does give me hope is online pundits.

01:26:36.000 The ones that are not beholden to these gigantic corporations, the ones that aren't a part of a network, they can speak more freely and more honestly.

01:26:47.000 One of my favorite shows is The Hill, Rising on the Hill.

01:26:50.000 Those guys are great.

01:26:51.000 Yeah.

01:26:57.000 Yeah.

01:27:01.000 Yeah.

01:27:09.000 Clearly honest and clearly objective.

01:27:12.000 This is possible to do.

01:27:13.000 And I think that shows like that...

01:27:16.000 Which is doing very well, by the way.

01:27:17.000 Very well.

01:27:18.000 Which shows there's a hunger for this.

01:27:20.000 Yes.

01:27:20.000 There's a starvation.

01:27:21.000 And I think shows like that can lead the way.

01:27:25.000 Because this is the way we need to behave with each other.

01:27:27.000 It used to be your neighbor was a right-wing nut, and you were growing alfalfa sprouts, and you could all get along.

01:27:34.000 You're like, hey, Mike, how's the gun collection going?

01:27:36.000 Yeah.

01:27:37.000 You could be friends.

01:27:39.000 You could be friends with people that have different opposing points of view. 0.99

01:27:43.000 I have some pretty fucking crazy friends. 0.99

01:27:45.000 We all do. 0.99

01:27:46.000 And I love them to death, yeah.

01:27:47.000 I mean, what happened?

01:27:48.000 Why does America have to be so separated, divided on this imaginary line that we create?

01:27:56.000 Because most of us, if you look at our core beliefs, what do we really want?

01:28:00.000 We want...

01:28:01.000 We want friendship.

01:28:02.000 We want love.

01:28:03.000 We want community.

01:28:04.000 We want our family.

01:28:05.000 We want to have opportunities for our businesses.

01:28:08.000 And we want to have the freedom to express ourselves and the freedom to practice whatever cultural rituals or religions that you choose to practice.

01:28:18.000 And this is what we all agree on.

01:28:20.000 And then there's economic disagreements.

01:28:22.000 And then there's disagreements on education and healthcare.

01:28:25.000 But, God, those are the small ones.

01:28:27.000 Yeah.

01:28:28.000 I think?

01:28:32.000 I think?

01:28:53.000 I had Ron Paul voters, Bernie voters, people from all across the political spectrum.

01:28:59.000 And we had the most amazing conversations.

01:29:02.000 And it was a conversation.

01:29:04.000 Because around so many of these issues, like healthcare, for example, what it boiled down to was while people had different ideas on the best way to, like, what our healthcare system should look like, it came down to, like, if your child is sick,

01:29:20.000 You want to be able to make sure that your child gets the best care possible.

01:29:24.000 That if your mother comes down, is diagnosed with cancer, that her job or your job or your social status is not going to affect her ability to get the best care possible.

01:29:40.000 With education, tell me one parent that doesn't want their child to get a good education.

01:29:44.000 I know a guy. 0.96

01:29:48.000 Like, you do have crazy friends, Joe. 0.87

01:29:50.000 I'm just kidding. 0.97

01:29:51.000 I'm just kidding.

01:29:52.000 We've got some other issues we've got to deal with there.

01:29:55.000 But you get the point, right?

01:29:57.000 Yeah.

01:29:57.000 No, I do get the point.

01:29:58.000 You get the point.

01:29:58.000 And so, you know, the economy, you know, what person doesn't want to have You know, just a great opportunity to earn a good living so you don't have to fear for yourself or your family's safety and economic security.

01:30:13.000 So yes, we are going to have wildly different ideas perhaps on how we can achieve these things, which is okay.

01:30:19.000 That's not a bad thing.

01:30:20.000 That we come up with some of our best ideas when we have these debates with an openness.

01:30:25.000 And a respect to know, like, hey, I got this idea.

01:30:28.000 Let me hear yours.

01:30:29.000 And maybe there's some good ideas that came from mine and from yours, and we can kind of figure out, you know, the right path forward for all of us.

01:30:37.000 And this is where, you know, it all stems down to being able to have the conversation.

01:30:42.000 And that is so much of what's missing in Washington.

01:30:45.000 Yeah.

01:30:45.000 Where, you know, I don't know.

01:30:48.000 This was in my first few years in Congress.

01:30:50.000 Yeah.

01:30:51.000 People unwilling what to speak of have a conversation, even like just say hello.

01:30:58.000 You know, there's a gym in the basement of the house that a lot of members are going and work out in.

01:31:04.000 Members of Congress go out and work out in.

01:31:05.000 Who gets after it?

01:31:07.000 Who really gets after it in Congress?

01:31:08.000 Well, I mean, other than me, of course.

01:31:09.000 You do.

01:31:10.000 You do.

01:31:10.000 You get after it more than any of them.

01:31:12.000 You might be the only congresswoman that ever puts workout videos online. 1.00

01:31:16.000 Maybe.

01:31:16.000 Of you working out.

01:31:17.000 That's actually probably true.

01:31:18.000 But they're impressive.

01:31:20.000 I gotta tell you, I'm impressed.

01:31:22.000 I appreciate that.

01:31:23.000 It's important.

01:31:24.000 You do hard stuff.

01:31:25.000 But you do difficult stuff.

01:31:28.000 Like, you get after it.

01:31:29.000 Yeah.

01:31:29.000 Like, you're not, like, doing, like, curls?

01:31:31.000 No, no, no. 0.96

01:31:33.000 You're doing box jumps and shit? 0.99

01:31:34.000 Yeah. 0.93

01:31:34.000 Yeah, you're doing plyometrics? 0.93

01:31:36.000 I love it.

01:31:37.000 I watch it.

01:31:37.000 It's such a great way to, I mean, for me, it's such a great way to start the day, you know, kind of clean the slate and get that physical exertion out.

01:31:46.000 I mean, yoga, for me, it's yoga, meditation, and working out that...

01:31:51.000 Yeah.

01:31:52.000 But there's a group of us in Congress.

01:31:54.000 When I was there, a very good friend of mine, Mark Wayne Mullen from Oklahoma, a congressman.

01:32:00.000 He actually used to be an MMA fighter.

01:32:02.000 Really?

01:32:02.000 And a wrestler.

01:32:04.000 And so that's how we became really good friends.

01:32:07.000 Oh, wow.

01:32:10.000 Of MMA fans?

01:32:10.000 He craps the whip.

01:32:12.000 He's invited Randy Couture there.

01:32:14.000 Randy's led a workout there.

01:32:16.000 Oh, wow.

01:32:17.000 It's such a great way to just bond as people.

01:32:22.000 The core of our workout group, Democrats and Republicans, they all came out to Abraham and my wedding in Hawaii.

01:32:27.000 We're actually really good friends.

01:32:29.000 That's cool. 0.99

01:32:30.000 And it all was centered around just kicking each other's ass in the morning and talking shit and all the other stuff that happens in the gym. 0.99

01:32:36.000 That's awesome. 0.99

01:32:37.000 But what I was going to say is one morning there was a yoga class happening in there, and then Speaker Boehner was participating in the yoga class, and I saw him on the house floor later.

01:32:49.000 He was walking down the main aisle, and just as he was about to leave, I was like, I saw you in yoga this morning.

01:32:56.000 That's awesome.

01:32:57.000 Good job.

01:32:57.000 I put my hand up and I high-fived him and he smiled and laughed a little bit.

01:33:02.000 But as this was happening, there was another Democrat who was waiting to pass and we were getting in her way. 0.98

01:33:10.000 And when she passed, once the high-five was done, she started muttering something to her staff. 1.00

01:33:18.000 She's like, I can't believe Tulsi would do that and gave me the look of like utter absolute disgust that this simple basic human interaction was the ultimate offense going back to once again how unfortunately so much of Congress is like high school and how at a most basic level like come on we're people let's treat each other like people And,

01:33:48.000 you know, you can have, and there's a number of things that I disagree with John Boehner on, on issues, but let's have those conversations and also be able to say, you know what, I recognize that you're a person too.

01:34:01.000 And yoga is a good thing for everybody.

01:34:04.000 But that's just, you know, it's one example of many.

01:34:07.000 It's a good thing for everybody and it's also a good thing to find out what someone's made out of.

01:34:11.000 Yeah.

01:34:11.000 Because you could kind of like be a man and go work out hard and grunt and everything like that and like, oh, that guy really works out hard.

01:34:19.000 Go to a yoga class and you find out how long you hold that pose for before you quit.

01:34:25.000 Yeah.

01:34:25.000 When do you put your foot down?

01:34:27.000 You know, that's a different kind of strength.

01:34:31.000 It's a mental strength.

01:34:33.000 Exactly.

01:34:34.000 Exactly.

01:34:34.000 And the ability to...

01:34:37.000 You know, just stop and find that focus and that peace in yoga breathing, yoga meditation, and like stop looking in the mirror and checking out how big your muscles are.

01:34:51.000 You know what I mean?

01:34:51.000 Exactly.

01:34:52.000 You know, it's another thing my yoga instructor said once that I'll never forget.

01:34:56.000 She was saying that one of the most difficult poses is in the dead body pose because you want to move.

01:35:03.000 The corpse pose, yeah.

01:35:04.000 She's like, you want to move, but you can't.

01:35:07.000 She goes, just lay there and breathe.

01:35:09.000 And it is hard to do.

01:35:11.000 Really?

01:35:11.000 It's hard to do in a weird way.

01:35:12.000 I love that one.

01:35:13.000 Do you?

01:35:14.000 I usually fall asleep at the end.

01:35:18.000 Well, there's a couple of those poses that are in the middle. 0.98

01:35:21.000 There's one of them that's in the middle where you lie down.

01:35:24.000 And when you do the Bikram series, there's one of them in the middle where they used to call it Bikram. 0.99

01:35:29.000 Now, the place that I was going to, they changed it to just hot yoga because he's a scumbag. 0.98

01:35:34.000 And also, he didn't really invent those moves. 0.99

01:35:36.000 Oh, no.

01:35:36.000 Not at all.

01:35:37.000 They've been around for thousands of years.

01:35:38.000 Exactly.

01:35:39.000 Yeah.

01:35:39.000 And even that pattern.

01:35:40.000 And even doing it in a hot climate.

01:35:43.000 Yeah.

01:35:43.000 He didn't invent any of that.

01:35:44.000 He just went and made a bunch of money for himself.

01:35:46.000 Yeah.

01:35:46.000 Hilarious.

01:35:47.000 But when you're exhausted and your body's overheating and you're lying there, it's hard to just lay there.

01:35:55.000 You want to move around like, ugh, ugh.

01:35:58.000 You know, you do all these different things, but you just gotta chill, and it's hard to do.

01:36:04.000 It's hard to just lay there.

01:36:06.000 Yeah, but it's so, so, I mean, it's life-changing if you allow it.

01:36:11.000 It's very good for you.

01:36:12.000 Yeah, and physical...

01:36:14.000 Well, good for you for high-fiving them.

01:36:16.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:36:16.000 And, you know, the thing about them treating it like high school, the problem is most people live their fucking lives like it's like high school. 0.99

01:36:24.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:36:24.000 You know? 0.99

01:36:25.000 I mean...

01:36:26.000 I know people that are grown adults with children that treat life like high school.

01:36:31.000 You know, when they pick their kids up at school.

01:36:33.000 You know, this one's over there with that.

01:36:35.000 Look at how she's dressed. 0.98

01:36:36.000 I can't believe her husband lets her go out like that. 1.00

01:36:39.000 It's like fucking high school, you know? 0.99

01:36:42.000 That is a whole other thing about humanity, responsibility, and awareness, and the effect of our actions and our words on other people, and especially if you're a parent, on your kids, what kind of example you're setting. 0.99

01:36:57.000 It's also just not seeking growth as a human being.

01:37:02.000 Being satisfied with the mindset that you have 10 years ago, or 15 years ago, and just maintaining that nonsense for the rest of your life.

01:37:11.000 There are grown babies. 1.00

01:37:13.000 They're literally like a 55-year-old baby man and that's out there treating life like they're a 12-year-old storming temper tantrums and acting like an idiot. 1.00

01:37:23.000 And they don't get any better. 1.00

01:37:26.000 There's no self-reflection.

01:37:27.000 And if you come visit them in 10 years, it'll be more of the same.

01:37:30.000 They just have less energy.

01:37:31.000 And probably more bitterness and more...

01:37:33.000 More angry.

01:37:34.000 Yeah.

01:37:34.000 Angry at the world.

01:37:35.000 Didn't give them their just due.

01:37:37.000 Which is so sad, really, because it...

01:37:40.000 I mean, life is so short.

01:37:42.000 It is real short.

01:37:43.000 And to be alive and to be in a place where, look, we have so many blessings and opportunities and comforts that people in a lot of other parts of the world don't have.

01:37:56.000 And it's unfortunate to waste all of that opportunity.

01:38:01.000 It is.

01:38:01.000 And ultimately, the benefit of those people is you get to learn from their failures.

01:38:09.000 You get to learn from their mistakes.

01:38:11.000 It's a horrible thing to learn from someone's literal wasted life.

01:38:16.000 But you can learn.

01:38:17.000 Absolutely.

01:38:18.000 And if you know people like that.

01:38:19.000 Like, when I was in high school, I had a friend and his cousin, I've talked about it too many times, but I'll say it one more time.

01:38:24.000 His cousin was a coke addict.

01:38:26.000 He was selling coke. 0.99

01:38:28.000 And I learned from watching his life fall apart, like, whatever I do, stay the fuck away from that stuff. 0.97

01:38:32.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:38:33.000 Because it was like knowing someone who got bit by a vampire. 1.00

01:38:36.000 Like, watching his whole life wrap around this drug and selling it and then just withered away, lost a bunch of weight, looked all fucking scrawny and shit. 0.99

01:38:46.000 You can learn from other people's failures. 0.99

01:38:48.000 Absolutely.

01:38:49.000 You can learn from their lack of growth.

01:38:52.000 And when you see it and it makes you uncomfortable, there's a value in that.

01:38:55.000 People say that experience is the best mistake or is the best teacher.

01:38:59.000 I think other people's failures are the best teacher.

01:39:02.000 I don't want to be that guy.

01:39:03.000 So you don't have to go through it yourself first.

01:39:04.000 Yeah, I don't want to be like her.

01:39:06.000 I don't want to be like him.

01:39:07.000 That's the best.

01:39:08.000 I don't want to be like they if I want to non-gender it. 1.00

01:39:11.000 Are you into that now, Joe?

01:39:12.000 Oh, that's my new thing.

01:39:13.000 Yeah, I don't believe in gender anymore.

01:39:15.000 When I buy a puppy, I don't even ask.

01:39:17.000 You let the puppy name itself?

01:39:19.000 Let the puppy decide. 0.73

01:39:20.000 Yeah, if it lifts its leg to pee, I assume it's a boy. 0.96

01:39:22.000 That's gotta be interesting.

01:39:26.000 A whole new world.

01:39:28.000 It's a whole new world.

01:39:30.000 Yeah, it is.

01:39:31.000 It's a weird one.

01:39:33.000 We're going to get through it.

01:39:34.000 But I think there's going to be some real hiccups along the way.

01:39:38.000 There always are.

01:39:39.000 There always are.

01:39:40.000 And speaking of learning from other people's experiences, I think this is, you know, what we've gone through as a country and as a people, this is a teachable moment.

01:39:52.000 Like, if you don't like what's happening around you right now, take a moment, pause, and whether it's individually, ourselves, or, I mean, really collectively, stopping for that introspection to say, how did we get here?

01:40:07.000 Yeah.

01:40:07.000 And how can I be a positive force for shifting?

01:40:12.000 It's not easy.

01:40:12.000 It doesn't happen overnight.

01:40:13.000 It doesn't happen because one person has been elected president.

01:40:18.000 It happens when we collectively start to make those better choices about the impact that we are making on others, the kinds of things we're saying, the things that we're tweeting out.

01:40:30.000 And, you know, instead of just like, whatever you're thinking on social media or whatever, you know, just taking that, like, okay, just think about it.

01:40:38.000 Just think about it.

01:40:39.000 What kind of impact do you want to make?

01:40:42.000 This is where I think we have the opportunity to shift.

01:40:46.000 And this is something that I want to be able to, that I plan to be able to help contribute to now that I'm not in Congress, is to be able to kind of create a platform for sharing real in-depth information.

01:41:03.000 So that people have a place to go to look at different issues that we're dealing with at any given time, share my own insights based on the experience that I've had on both the problem as well as how we can work towards a real common sense solution, but also just have a platform for these kinds of real conversations,

01:41:24.000 much like the ones that I've had throughout my presidential campaign, throughout my time in Congress, throughout my time in the military, both with people here and around the world, That show, when it comes right down to it, when you actually sit across from someone, maybe over a meal, that we have so much more in common than we realize.

01:41:42.000 Just like my friends I work out with in the morning in the gym.

01:41:44.000 We have so much more in common than we realize at the superficial level.

01:41:49.000 And so this is one of the things that I'm going to be doing is launching a podcast show.

01:41:57.000 That's crazy.

01:41:58.000 You're going to do a podcast?

01:41:58.000 Yeah.

01:41:59.000 I know.

01:41:59.000 What?

01:42:01.000 No one does podcasts.

01:42:02.000 I looked back.

01:42:04.000 I think it was the last time I was here with Jocko, right?

01:42:07.000 That was the last time I was on your show.

01:42:12.000 You're like, Tulsi, you should do a podcast.

01:42:14.000 And actually have a long-form platform to talk about issues because, you know, as we saw throughout the debates and other things, it's the soundbite, it's the tweet, it's the superficial.

01:42:25.000 And at that level, there's only an interest in soundbites and caricatures and not an interest in actual real conversation and in-depth focus on substance.

01:42:39.000 Yeah, long-form discussions.

01:42:41.000 It's the only way to find out how a person actually thinks.

01:42:44.000 You can take a little snippet of things, you can mischaracterize it, and that's the problem with Twitter.

01:42:51.000 I see so many people arguing with people on Twitter, and I watch them argue, and I go, I gotta believe if they were alone in a room, they wouldn't be...

01:42:59.000 Hashing it out like this.

01:43:01.000 They'd probably find some common ground. 1.00

01:43:03.000 Hopefully, they'd be able to communicate in a way where they would be able to relay each other's thoughts without having to insult each other and say horrible shit. 1.00

01:43:15.000 I've seen it happen. 0.99

01:43:16.000 I've seen it happen over and over throughout my presidential campaign in those town halls.

01:43:23.000 Sometimes they were small rooms, sometimes they were rooms with thousands of people.

01:43:27.000 Always had a Q&A session at the very end of the town hall after I said what I wanted to say.

01:43:34.000 And time and time again, even when people came with that combative kind of attitude and spirit, Yeah.

01:44:03.000 Thank you.

01:44:20.000 I think that also speaks to you.

01:44:21.000 Because I think that if you went to Trump's town halls and they had a Q&A, they would not have the same result.

01:44:26.000 I don't think you would have people reaching across the aisle and having reasonable discussions.

01:44:30.000 You're a reasonable person.

01:44:31.000 And I think that is one of the more important aspects of leadership, like who the leader is.

01:44:37.000 I'm sure when you're giving out this town hall and these people are in this room together, They're feeding off of that kind of energy.

01:44:44.000 It's not this divisive, combative energy that other politicians put out.

01:44:50.000 I think that fosters this idea of community.

01:44:54.000 It allows people to have the confidence to maybe be a little more kind That's true.

01:45:21.000 I thought I was going to not like you.

01:45:23.000 I thought I was going to not like you.

01:45:24.000 And then shake hands.

01:45:25.000 Totally.

01:45:25.000 That's a beautiful feeling.

01:45:26.000 It is a beautiful thing.

01:45:28.000 And this is something I started to do at these town halls where to make people feel more comfortable, I said, okay, I want to see a show of hands.

01:45:38.000 Raise your hand if you're a Democrat.

01:45:40.000 A bunch of hands went up.

01:45:41.000 I'm a Democrat.

01:45:42.000 I said, okay, raise your hands if you're a Republican.

01:45:45.000 And it usually started with one person kind of like looking around, raising their hand, and then slowly more hands started going up and everybody's sitting up a little taller and they're like, oh my God, I'm not alone.

01:45:56.000 I'm not the only one.

01:45:57.000 Raise your hands if you're an independent.

01:45:59.000 Raise your hands if you're a libertarian.

01:46:01.000 And just taking a few minutes to do that, immediately people were just like, wow.

01:46:06.000 This is a representation of America.

01:46:09.000 We are all sitting here in this same room and all here because we care about our country.

01:46:16.000 And that's the starting point for those discussions.

01:46:20.000 The starting point is also being able to have a reasonable discussion and being calm about it.

01:46:27.000 I brought up your appearance on The View.

01:46:29.000 But that was one of my favorite appearances on The View, because you were one of the only people that didn't actually get upset.

01:46:34.000 You just corrected them.

01:46:36.000 Like, you slowly but surely, and you could see Joy Behar, her glasses were shaking, she's pulling out her cards, and she had notes of different things, insulting things to say to you.

01:46:46.000 It was kind of hilarious.

01:46:47.000 And you kept your shit together, and you just calmly refuted all that and explained who you are, and That kind of energy that you brought to the table as a presidential candidate was very exciting to me. 0.99

01:47:00.000 And that kind of energy at a town hall, I guarantee you, is a large part of why people were willing to have these reasonable disagreements and discussions. 0.99

01:47:08.000 And that's what we need.

01:47:10.000 Yeah.

01:47:10.000 This idea that we're separated and there's a red and a blue and we're team this or team that.

01:47:16.000 I'm on team donkey. 1.00

01:47:17.000 Fuck you. 1.00

01:47:18.000 I'm an elephant. 1.00

01:47:19.000 Like that is crazy.

01:47:21.000 Most of what we agree on or disagree on is we can work these things out.

01:47:29.000 And a lot of people that either are on one side or the other, they decide that they're a part of this tribe because they don't want to be out on their own.

01:47:39.000 They don't want to be independent.

01:47:40.000 They don't want to be adrift in the wind.

01:47:42.000 And they want to have the social connection to other people that have like-minded beliefs.

01:47:48.000 And so they'll alter their beliefs to fit their community.

01:47:51.000 They'll alter their beliefs to fit in with other human beings.

01:47:56.000 Yeah, I mean, it's what people do.

01:47:58.000 It's a common thing.

01:48:02.000 Yeah, and being able to create those spaces like you do here.

01:48:07.000 I mean, I lost track of how many people who came to my campaign because, like, I heard you on Joe Rogan.

01:48:14.000 You have all kinds of people that you bring in here to talk to and have meaningful discussions with, which is, I think, what draws people to your show because...

01:48:23.000 They know that it will be a fair and open and respectful dialogue, whether you agree with who you bring in or not.

01:48:31.000 It's kind of not even really the point.

01:48:34.000 But so many people came and people from across the spectrum.

01:48:39.000 There's this one woman who came At the end of the town hall and she's like, I don't know, maybe 70 years old.

01:48:45.000 She's like, Tulsi, I'm here because I saw you on Joe Rogan.

01:48:49.000 I was like, that's awesome!

01:48:51.000 That's crazy.

01:48:51.000 I don't think you're the kind of person people think of when they think of the Joe Rogan audience, but it just shows that there's such a cross-section of Americans, again, who are hungry for this dialogue and to be able to reach out and to hear different perspectives.

01:49:09.000 And so, yeah, I mean, this is something that I want to be able to help contribute to being that voice for common sense and facts and truth and freedom and to create that space where we can actually get to know each other better.

01:49:26.000 Well, the world needs a whole lot more of that.

01:49:28.000 So when are you going to do this?

01:49:29.000 In the next few weeks, people can go on now.

01:49:34.000 I've got a trailer up.

01:49:35.000 The show is called This Is Tulsi Gabbard.

01:49:37.000 A trailer?

01:49:37.000 Can we watch it right now?

01:49:38.000 You can listen to it.

01:49:40.000 I don't know if that's going to be as interesting.

01:49:42.000 Are you going to have video and audio?

01:49:42.000 I am, actually.

01:49:43.000 I am.

01:49:43.000 Video and audio.

01:49:44.000 Where are you going to do it out of?

01:49:45.000 Are you going to do it from Hawaii?

01:49:46.000 So are you going to do it remotely with guests?

01:49:48.000 I'm going to do it out of Hawaii, but maybe when COVID stops being such an infectious thing a little bit later.

01:49:56.000 I'd love to do as much in-person as possible and just kind of do it like a roadshow, a weekly roadshow.

01:50:03.000 There's something about the in-person ones that's so much better.

01:50:06.000 Yeah, that would be my preference.

01:50:11.000 I'll invite people to come out to Hawaii, take a vacation.

01:50:14.000 We'll film a show there.

01:50:15.000 I limit my Zoom ones now to people on other continents and people that are older, that really can't travel.

01:50:24.000 They're worried about their health.

01:50:26.000 Right.

01:50:26.000 Because it's just...

01:50:27.000 The conversations are always so...

01:50:29.000 It's like they're hollow.

01:50:31.000 It's like a hollow Easter bunny.

01:50:32.000 Remember you used to get those hollow ones? 0.99

01:50:34.000 You go, damn, it's a hollow one. 0.99

01:50:35.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:50:35.000 And you get those other ones that are solid. 0.99

01:50:37.000 You're like, oh, look at all the chocolate.

01:50:38.000 You know those?

01:50:39.000 Yeah.

01:50:39.000 Yeah, that's what it's like.

01:50:41.000 It looks like a podcast, but it's a hollow chocolate bunny.

01:50:44.000 Yeah.

01:50:45.000 Yeah, so there's...

01:50:48.000 Yeah, we'll get to do in-person ones when it's a little bit more safe to do it.

01:50:52.000 But in the meantime, you know, it'll be a mix of...

01:50:55.000 It's not going to be primarily conversations.

01:50:57.000 It'll be conversations, but it'll also just, you know, North Korea, for example.

01:51:01.000 I'm going to do a piece just talking about North Korea and really getting into depth about how we got here and the failures that have caused us to reach this point.

01:51:11.000 And I think where...

01:51:12.000 Where we can go and address a lot of the issues like this that people aren't really getting in the news.

01:51:21.000 Are you going to do all this completely independent?

01:51:24.000 Yeah.

01:51:24.000 Yeah, that's the move.

01:51:25.000 Yeah.

01:51:25.000 Because there's a lot of podcast networks out there and there's a lot of...

01:51:31.000 Production houses that put together podcasts and they'll lure you in with talks of, we already have advertisers, we can do this, or we'd like to offer you 60% of the revenue and we'll take the rest.

01:51:48.000 I think with everything happening, especially now, but even leading up to what we've seen in the last few weeks, just putting yourself in a position where someone else has the power to tell you, like, man,

01:52:03.000 I don't like what you said there.

01:52:04.000 Yes.

01:52:05.000 Yank. 0.67

01:52:06.000 Exactly.

01:52:07.000 I don't want to be in that position.

01:52:08.000 Yeah.

01:52:09.000 No, you don't want to be in that position.

01:52:10.000 Yeah.

01:52:11.000 It's also like being as many platforms as possible is a good move too, especially in the early days.

01:52:17.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:52:18.000 It's a weird time when someone can just decide that they don't like you or that what you're doing is problematic.

01:52:27.000 And just find a reason.

01:52:29.000 Find or create a reason to be able to de-platform you.

01:52:34.000 Yeah, it's one of the reasons why I went to Spotify.

01:52:36.000 Because they had...

01:52:37.000 A vested interest in me succeeding.

01:52:41.000 Sure.

01:52:41.000 Like, instead of worrying about me being pulled from their network.

01:52:44.000 Right.

01:52:44.000 It's not that I ever really worried about that with YouTube, but it's always possible.

01:52:49.000 It is possible.

01:52:49.000 And there was some weird shenanigans they would do with demonetizing specific episodes just randomly.

01:52:55.000 And we would question it.

01:52:57.000 What does that mean to demonetize?

01:52:59.000 It means you don't make any ad revenue.

01:53:00.000 You don't make the ad revenue from that episode.

01:53:03.000 And they just decide.

01:53:04.000 And so it's a way, and I'm not necessarily saying that this is why they did it, but this is what happens because of it.

01:53:12.000 It's a way of censoring people without censoring people.

01:53:15.000 Because you say, oh, were you guys talking about COVID? Oh, yeah.

01:53:19.000 We can't put ads on that. 0.97

01:53:21.000 Why would you want to put ads on something that's one of the primary concerns of the entire fucking planet?

01:53:26.000 Yeah, why put ads on that? 0.97

01:53:27.000 Oh, did you guys swear?

01:53:28.000 Did you swear?

01:53:29.000 Oh, yeah, we're going to have to demonetize that.

01:53:32.000 There was a lot of weird stuff like that.

01:53:33.000 And so I was like, listen, they're great overall, but the arbitrary decisions that are oftentimes done by people that work there, right?

01:53:43.000 So someone has the ability to decide whether you make money off something or whether you don't make money off something.

01:53:50.000 And it's not the primary concern, but it points to an issue.

01:53:58.000 And the issue is someone being able to dictate what you can or can't talk about, or someone incentivizing you to talk about something or not talk about something.

01:54:08.000 Exactly.

01:54:08.000 It's the principle of the matter.

01:54:10.000 And I don't want to be a part of that.

01:54:11.000 And it's not that I distrust YouTube.

01:54:15.000 I think the problem is not them.

01:54:17.000 I think the problem is managing at scale.

01:54:20.000 I think they are dealing with billions of minutes of time that's just being thrown at them and uploaded constantly.

01:54:28.000 And I don't know how many employees they really have, but it can't be enough.

01:54:31.000 And there's no way they can watch every minute of every show that gets uploaded on their network.

01:54:39.000 They don't have that kind of time.

01:54:40.000 It's not physically possible.

01:54:42.000 How many different people upload on YouTube?

01:54:45.000 We've figured this out before, but it's in the millions, right, Jamie?

01:54:50.000 500 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute worldwide.

01:54:54.000 Wow.

01:54:56.000 Wow.

01:54:57.000 500 hours every minute.

01:54:59.000 That's 720,000 hours of video uploaded every day to YouTube. 1.00

01:55:03.000 Well, good luck getting someone to watch all that shit. 1.00

01:55:06.000 Exactly. 1.00

01:55:07.000 It's not even that.

01:55:08.000 It's their fault.

01:55:10.000 It's like, how do you get all the ISIS beheading videos down?

01:55:14.000 How do you get all the Nazi videos down?

01:55:17.000 How do you find all that stuff?

01:55:20.000 Yeah.

01:55:20.000 I mean, I don't know.

01:55:22.000 I don't know how they do it.

01:55:23.000 But the danger, like you said, the danger of the principle of the matter is that, let's say they don't have the means to, I don't know how their process works, but let's say somebody clicks on your video or my video and reports it as,

01:55:40.000 you know, whatever.

01:55:42.000 Let's say they report it as a video that's supporting.

01:55:46.000 Problematic.

01:55:49.000 I don't know what YouTube's process is to have any kind of fairness in seeing whether it is problematic or not.

01:55:59.000 Or is it just like, ah, somebody reported it, we're going to yank it because it's safer to yank it.

01:56:04.000 And, you know, therefore put the person whose show it is in a pretty difficult situation.

01:56:11.000 Yeah.

01:56:11.000 Yeah, I don't know what you would do differently either if I was them.

01:56:16.000 Right.

01:56:16.000 I mean, how would you manage that kind of time?

01:56:20.000 Right.

01:56:22.000 Yeah.

01:56:22.000 I don't know the answer to that.

01:56:24.000 Right.

01:56:25.000 I don't know the answer.

01:56:25.000 I mean, ultimately, we want them to have...

01:56:28.000 I'm just actually...

01:56:30.000 I wasn't going to show this here, but my husband sent me the edit of the video trailer.

01:56:35.000 I don't know if...

01:56:36.000 I don't have Jamie's number.

01:56:37.000 You can airdrop it to him.

01:56:38.000 Okay.

01:56:41.000 Yeah.

01:56:42.000 I mean, ultimately, it comes down to being able to make sure that these big tech monopolies are making decisions about content, like we talked about, based on the principles of the First Amendment.

01:56:53.000 Right.

01:56:54.000 Based on the principles of not inciting violence.

01:56:56.000 And there's press...

01:56:57.000 There's literally decades of precedence for this which provide very clear guidelines and markers that big tech or frankly any platform can look to and have those be the boundaries that are transparent and clear to everyone so that users or content creators aren't left questioning and wondering like,

01:57:20.000 why the heck did this get pulled?

01:57:22.000 I don't understand.

01:57:23.000 Which is what's happening now.

01:57:25.000 And it's also, you really can't answer every one of those people.

01:57:29.000 That's another problem.

01:57:30.000 If you have that many people uploading stuff constantly, how are you going to answer all those people?

01:57:35.000 Exactly.

01:57:36.000 So my thoughts of going with Spotify, besides the money, was that it seemed like it made more sense to have someone who has a vested interest in the show succeeding, and they have no interest in pulling me off their network.

01:57:52.000 They actually want me to be on there.

01:57:53.000 Yeah.

01:57:55.000 Yeah.

01:57:55.000 And they want more people to see what you're doing.

01:57:57.000 If you do your show, are you planning on a video element of it?

01:58:01.000 Yeah.

01:58:02.000 You are.

01:58:02.000 This is a Dropbox link.

01:58:04.000 Should I just give you my phone?

01:58:10.000 I wouldn't trust him.

01:58:11.000 He's gonna go right to your pictures.

01:58:13.000 It's okay.

01:58:14.000 Look for some secret folder you might have.

01:58:17.000 Like surfing and whatever.

01:58:19.000 That's it?

01:58:19.000 You boring?

01:58:20.000 Surfing and like food and...

01:58:23.000 What's in the book?

01:58:23.000 All the stuff.

01:58:24.000 This is literally just like notes.

01:58:26.000 On what?

01:58:27.000 Notebook.

01:58:29.000 But you had it open when you sat down?

01:58:31.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:58:31.000 No, I mean, there's just some of the things that, like, we talked about a lot of things that I was hoping to talk about and some things that I wanted to be reminded of.

01:58:38.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:58:41.000 A lot of the, you know, the cancel culture, the freedom of speech, Bill of Rights issues and things like that.

01:58:47.000 Yeah, I think the cancel culture is just a big part of what we were talking about earlier with social media.

01:58:53.000 It's so easy to gravitate towards hate.

01:58:55.000 It's so easy to be angry.

01:58:56.000 It's so easy to lash out.

01:58:59.000 It's a weird way to communicate.

01:59:01.000 It's not healthy.

01:59:04.000 It's the primary way that most people express themselves in a public forum.

01:59:08.000 And one of the dangers of this right now is just the, you know, casting broad aspersions against people.

01:59:19.000 We were talking about this as I was walking in this morning of, you know, people are talking about racism a lot, but they're not referring to kind of the racism and assumption of guilt against like white male Americans right now.

01:59:38.000 That clip from Congressman Steve Cohen on CNN from the other day.

01:59:43.000 Yeah, that's what we're talking about.

01:59:43.000 Explain that.

01:59:44.000 So Congressman Steve Cohen was on CNN talking about potential insider threats from the National Guard who are deployed to our nation's capital right now to over 25,000 of our National Guard soldiers, I believe from every single state.

01:59:59.000 And the point that he was making was that because only 20% of white males voted for Joe Biden...

02:00:09.000 And, well, that means, you know, the rest obviously voted for Trump.

02:00:13.000 And the military is still a predominantly white male.

02:00:17.000 Is that true in the culture?

02:00:18.000 25% of the white males voted for Joe Biden in the country?

02:00:24.000 That's what Steve Cohen said.

02:00:26.000 Not just in the National Guard?

02:00:27.000 No, no, no.

02:00:27.000 In the country.

02:00:28.000 Oh.

02:00:28.000 What?

02:00:29.000 Is that real?

02:00:29.000 I haven't verified that, but that's what he said.

02:00:32.000 We need to verify that right now, because that doesn't even make sense.

02:00:35.000 That seems way off.

02:00:37.000 In saying that, he says, well, therefore, given the military is predominantly white male, it's safe to assume that 75% of the Guard has likely voted for Trump, and therefore could not be trusted for to uphold their oath to support and defend the Constitution and fulfill the mission that they've been tasked with in our nation's capital.

02:01:02.000 And the troubling statement that he used was given these numbers, quote, the suspect pool is large.

02:01:11.000 So casting doubt and suspicion on the vast majority of the National Guard in this case because of their race and their gender and who they may have voted for as though they cannot be trusted directly.

02:01:31.000 To uphold the responsibility and the oath that we all take for wearing this uniform is one example of this.

02:01:40.000 I mean, it is.

02:01:41.000 It's blatant racism and tribalism that is incredibly, incredibly dangerous.

02:01:48.000 Yeah.

02:01:49.000 Yeah, it's also virtual signaling.

02:01:51.000 You know, it's also a thing that you could say where people go, yes!

02:01:54.000 And they give you a little heart.

02:01:57.000 You go, boy.

02:01:58.000 They like it.

02:01:59.000 You know, it's a thing.

02:02:00.000 He got criticized for it.

02:02:02.000 It's good for him.

02:02:02.000 But he didn't apologize.

02:02:05.000 His comeback was like, well, I support the National Guard.

02:02:08.000 Like, I've been in the National Guard for over 17 years.

02:02:12.000 By you saying, by you making this assumption that the people I've served with...

02:02:18.000 75% racist.

02:02:20.000 Yes.

02:02:21.000 You don't support the National Guard.

02:02:23.000 Don't even pretend.

02:02:24.000 And you shouldn't be in Congress.

02:02:25.000 Saying things like that is so common today.

02:02:28.000 There was another disturbing moment where they were talking about the rollout of the vaccine.

02:02:36.000 And, Jamie, who was that guy that was...

02:02:40.000 We're good to go.

02:03:08.000 This came from the CDC's advisory committee responsible for deciding who should get the vaccine first or not.

02:03:18.000 Yes.

02:03:19.000 Who was the guy that said it, though? 0.99

02:03:22.000 And everybody blew a fucking gasket, because that is really a crazy thing to say. 0.95

02:03:26.000 Well, the problem is, I don't remember the name of who said it, but all members of this advisory committee supported it, except for one guy who was like, this is not based on science. 0.98

02:03:38.000 Because if you look at the statistics, over 80% of people dying in this country from COVID are people over the age of 65. Yeah, if you want to save lives, you would give it to them.

02:03:48.000 And like 50% of people being hospitalized.

02:03:50.000 Over 65. So yes, if you want to save lives, if you want to make it so our ICUs aren't at max capacity, then prioritize the vaccine based on age instead of occupation.

02:04:04.000 There is a concern, though, that essential workers are the ones who spread it more easily because they have to be in contact with people.

02:04:11.000 I'm glad you mentioned that.

02:04:11.000 So it's not that cut and dry.

02:04:13.000 So these essential workers that are getting it, these folks have to be at work.

02:04:19.000 So if they have to be at work, they're more likely to contract it.

02:04:22.000 If they get the vaccine and they're protected from it, then it will spread less likely.

02:04:26.000 So there's two things there.

02:04:27.000 First is who the CDC designates as an essential worker.

02:04:34.000 I'll get to that in a second.

02:04:53.000 I've gone back and looked at the applications and the data that was put forward to the FDA to get approval from Pfizer and Moderna, and these vaccines have been scientifically established to largely prevent serious health complications and death from COVID once you're vaccinated.

02:05:17.000 That has been scientifically established.

02:05:20.000 Nowhere in their trials was it scientifically established that these vaccines would prevent the transmission of the virus.

02:05:27.000 And so I see it almost every day, and it's incredibly dangerous where media outlets and some people who are healthcare professionals are propagating this.

02:05:42.000 I mean, it's a lie.

02:05:43.000 It's not true.

02:05:44.000 But they're basically saying that, that, well, you know, people who have to go and work in these jobs that are essential workers, they need to get vaccinated so they don't spread it.

02:05:54.000 Or even, you know, first responders.

02:05:56.000 We had a local news station in Hawaii who shared a really emotional interview from a...

02:06:01.000 First responder, younger woman who had just gotten vaccinated, and she said, like, finally, I can go and visit my grandmother and not be worried that I am going to give her the virus because I'm taking care of people who have COVID every day.

02:06:20.000 And what is so dangerous about that is she got the vaccine.

02:06:24.000 If she has then gone and visited with her grandmother, she She could still, and Dr. Fauci's talked about this and others, because this virus lives inside your nasal passage...

02:06:39.000 You can be vaccinated and you can still pass it on.

02:06:42.000 And it could have a devastating effect on someone, for example, who is elderly and who is vulnerable to this and who has not gotten the vaccine.

02:06:52.000 So anyone who is saying that, well, we have to vaccinate these people or those people based on their occupation because we don't want the virus to spread, it has not been scientifically established that the vaccines prevent that.

02:07:09.000 And this is why Fauci and these other guys, they're like, even if you're vaccinated, you have to still wear the mask, you still have to do social distancing, because of the potential for that.

02:07:20.000 So I think that's such an important thing for people to know, especially as people are getting vaccinated, not to have this false sense of security that just because you've gotten the vaccine, now you can go visit grandma in...

02:07:33.000 The nursing home because you're not going to expose her potentially or put her at risk.

02:07:40.000 But the second issue is, is if you actually go on the CDC, I've gone through all the CDC slides that the advisory committee put forward on who is a frontline essential worker and who's an essential worker.

02:07:51.000 So healthcare professionals and first responders, obviously, yes.

02:07:56.000 They are so overworked.

02:07:58.000 They are overtaxed.

02:07:59.000 They should be getting the vaccine right alongside our elderly, over 65. But if you start getting past them and the people who are listed as frontline essential workers, according to the CDC, you're talking about anybody who works in manufacturing. 0.78

02:08:13.000 I think?

02:08:39.000 We're good to go.

02:08:56.000 And making decisions based on who gets the vaccine first, not based on who is most likely to die or get seriously ill, but instead based on occupation.

02:09:13.000 I kind of understand why you would want the people that are forced to work to get vaccinated before people that are not forced to work.

02:09:21.000 That makes sense.

02:09:25.000 It's very difficult when you hear that you want essential workers to get vaccinated and they can still spread it.

02:09:33.000 Because that needs to be really expressed very clearly.

02:09:40.000 It's not being expressed clearly much at all.

02:09:42.000 That could be a real problem.

02:09:42.000 It is because, again, let's say you have that example.

02:09:46.000 I mean, people over 65, my parents included, you're pretty much stuck at home because of the very real danger that if you go out and you get infected, you could die.

02:09:56.000 Yeah.

02:09:58.000 The danger of this fact about how the vaccines have not been scientifically established to prevent the transmission of the virus, that that's not being directly told to every single person who gets it, Is a real problem because then they go home.

02:10:17.000 Or they go and visit their parents who they haven't seen for a long time or their grandparents and could be carrying the virus and transmitting it unknowingly because they think like, I'm good now.

02:10:28.000 I'm safe.

02:10:30.000 And so that has to be part of this.

02:10:32.000 I mean, to me, there's a direct scientific correlation based on facts that if you look at the people who are dying and who are being hospitalized, predominantly they are people over 65 years old.

02:10:47.000 If we want to reduce those numbers, those are the people who should be prioritized to get this limited number of vaccines that we have first, then followed by younger, healthy people.

02:11:00.000 I mean, to me, and by doing that, really, we could reduce the numbers of COVID-related deaths by about 80%.

02:11:08.000 Reduce the numbers of COVID-related hospitalizations by, I think it's like 48-49%.

02:11:15.000 That would have a massive, massive effect on people's lives and on our country.

02:11:23.000 Yeah, well said.

02:11:25.000 And weird that that's not being said more often.

02:11:28.000 Yeah.

02:11:29.000 I've been pushing both our state leadership in Hawaii and also the Trump administration.

02:11:36.000 So the Trump administration, just in the last few days, I think it was January 12th, I think, the Department of Health and Human Services did actually adjust their recommendations.

02:11:50.000 And they said vaccines need to urgently go towards people over 65. It is something that they have strongly recommended to the states.

02:12:00.000 At this point, it's up to the states to choose whether to implement it or not.

02:12:05.000 Texas has.

02:12:06.000 Texas is one of those states that has.

02:12:08.000 And there are a few others.

02:12:09.000 But at this point, kind of the lives of our parents and grandparents are in the hands of the decisions being made by the governors and state health officials in each state.

02:12:20.000 How has Hawaii had a quarantine for a long time, right?

02:12:25.000 Had quarantine for a long time.

02:12:27.000 Recently, that quarantine is lifted for travelers, whether you're a resident or a visitor, if you're coming in with a negative COVID test taken within 72 hours prior to arrival.

02:12:39.000 Hmm.

02:12:40.000 So, you know, we have amongst the lowest number of, I think our infection rate is amongst the lowest in the country.

02:12:51.000 Slowly visitors are starting to come back.

02:12:53.000 It's still, I mean, it's nowhere even close to what it would be.

02:12:58.000 Otherwise, or what it was.

02:13:01.000 But, you know, I think this is an approach now that, you know, I think anybody coming to the U.S. now from a foreign country now has to do something similar.

02:13:10.000 So it's not 100% protection, but it provides that layer of protection to make sure that, yeah, people shouldn't be getting onto airplanes if you're sick.

02:13:22.000 Right.

02:13:22.000 Have they seen cases jump up since this has been implemented, since they have a lot of people to come with a COVID test?

02:13:30.000 Not significantly, no.

02:13:31.000 I think there may have been, I don't know the exact numbers, but you know, it's kind of, the numbers are quite small.

02:13:38.000 The spikes that we've seen in our daily reports seem to come after, you know, holiday weekends, times when people are gathering in large numbers and so on.

02:13:51.000 Is there any discussion in Hawaii about health and nutrition and exercise and the importance that that plays in the immune system?

02:14:02.000 Not enough.

02:14:03.000 I don't know.

02:14:03.000 Not enough.

02:14:04.000 It's, you know, I think because it's Hawaii, there's, I mean, being outdoors, surfing, hiking, swimming, you know, this is such a big part of life.

02:14:16.000 But, yeah, I mean, this has not been a focus by our health department or in Hawaii, and I think even nationally, it's unfortunate that just basic health and wellness has not been more of a focus in talking about prevention.

02:14:32.000 Yeah, well, the economic impact for the state has to be insane.

02:14:36.000 It's massive.

02:14:36.000 Because so much relying on tourism, right?

02:14:39.000 I mean, it's the number one driver of our economy.

02:14:41.000 And it's not just the people who are working in hotels, right?

02:14:44.000 It's all of the other people in that economic chain, you know, all the way to the farmers who are growing food, who usually are able to sell to the restaurants in the hotels, the restaurants in the community.

02:14:59.000 Yeah, it's had a really devastating effect.

02:15:03.000 And for a state like Hawaii, it seems like the only way that it bounces back is to let tourism back in.

02:15:12.000 If that's the number one driver of the economy, it's not like there's a bunch of other variables that can be put into play, right?

02:15:18.000 You're right, but it's challenging.

02:15:21.000 Well, first of all, I think a lot of local people are saying it's kind of nice not being flooded with millions of tourists every day, and maybe there's a way to take a more balanced and sustainable approach to welcoming people back into the state.

02:15:37.000 Um, that also is more, more sustainable in that, you know, uh, marine life are thriving.

02:15:45.000 Our reefs are doing much better than they ever have.

02:15:48.000 Um, it's just the environment in Hawaii.

02:15:52.000 Like, you know, people were out in the water every day.

02:15:54.000 They're like, my gosh, it's like mother earth finally got a chance to breathe.

02:15:57.000 That's so great, but also so disappointing.

02:15:59.000 Yeah.

02:15:59.000 It's eye-opening, though.

02:16:01.000 And so, you know, they're having conversations like, hey, maybe there's like a month out of the year or some period of time where we should just kind of maybe put a pause on things, let the environment reset.

02:16:11.000 I don't know.

02:16:11.000 There's different ideas being put forward.

02:16:13.000 A month's probably not enough, though, unfortunately.

02:16:14.000 Yeah.

02:16:15.000 Ten months is really what it needed.

02:16:17.000 Yeah.

02:16:17.000 Well, it's gotten it.

02:16:20.000 And this is really just the beginning, right?

02:16:21.000 If you left Hawaii alone for 10 years, then you would see what's up.

02:16:27.000 I have a giant concern with fishing practices and what's happening with the ocean because I don't think it's nearly being regulated enough and it's terrifying.

02:16:40.000 And when you think about the possibility of them literally pulling every fish out of the ocean inside of the next 150-200 years, that I mean, that's really possible.

02:16:50.000 We could see the numbers that things are down.

02:16:54.000 There was a documentary that I watched about a Japanese tuna fisherman.

02:16:59.000 And they were talking about what it used to be like when they would have these tuna hauls and they would come in and the sushi restaurants and all these different places would come in to look at the fish versus what's available now.

02:17:11.000 And it's a radical decrease in the population of fish.

02:17:15.000 Yeah, that overfishing.

02:17:17.000 I mean, I think a lot of what's happening with, you know, I don't know all of the mechanics of how they do it, but it's kind of like the ocean version of factory farming, essentially, where you see, in both cases,

02:17:33.000 an incredibly devastating long-term effect.

02:17:45.000 Mm-hmm.

02:18:00.000 There has to be a change in the policies and the laws that govern these industries because otherwise we're going to get to a place, like you said, there just won't be any more fish in the sea.

02:18:15.000 It's such a crazy thing to think of that a giant percentage of the Earth's surface and we suck all the living things out of it and stick them on plates.

02:18:23.000 Yeah.

02:18:24.000 I mean, there's...

02:18:26.000 There's got to be a global approach to this because this planet's not very big.

02:18:32.000 Right, but that is the problem, right?

02:18:33.000 And we share so much of it.

02:18:33.000 There's some people in some countries that are like, not interested, sorry, gonna keep whaling.

02:18:39.000 Sorry, not interested, gonna keep burning coal.

02:18:43.000 I think there's economic incentive given how much more we are all connected as countries in the world because of our economies.

02:18:54.000 I think it gets harder and harder if a country like ours were to say, hey, let's work with you on this.

02:19:01.000 I think it's harder to kind of silo yourself out.

02:19:05.000 It's tough.

02:19:05.000 Look, I'm not saying it's going to be an easy thing, but leadership.

02:19:09.000 Yeah.

02:19:11.000 So this podcast that you're doing, when you launch this and you, especially after COVID, relaxes and you take it on the road, do you have an end goal with this?

02:19:25.000 Is there something you're going to do in...

02:19:28.000 In addition to other things that you're planning on doing with your time?

02:19:31.000 Yeah.

02:19:32.000 Yeah, this I think will end up being one of a number of things that I'm doing.

02:19:38.000 Really as a means, taking the experience that I had, especially from my campaign, where my interest and goal was to really talk about and focus on the great issues of our time.

02:19:50.000 But finding that the mainstream media is really only interested in creating a caricature and the soundbite and the smears, that's kind of what motivated me to create this platform as a means to, that's why I called it,

02:20:06.000 This is Tulsi Gabbard.

02:20:08.000 This is me in my voice, sharing my views and my insights and my experience on all these different issues.

02:20:17.000 I think?

02:20:42.000 I think can have a really positive effect in inspiring people to do the same, to dig deeper, to look for the truth, to maybe challenge their own perspective or view on something by considering someone else's, and to spark those conversations in their own circles.

02:20:59.000 We are just so fortunate that there's an opportunity now that you can express yourself like that, where you can't be misrepresented.

02:21:07.000 And if people want to misrepresent you, other people just have to listen to you and go, that's not who she is at all.

02:21:15.000 You don't listen to This is Tulsi Gabbard.

02:21:18.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:21:20.000 If you want to know, just listen.

02:21:23.000 That is what will happen.

02:21:24.000 It's interesting that you say the mainstream media misrepresented you because don't you think that the mainstream media had to have been guided to misrepresent you?

02:21:32.000 It's not as simple as they just decided to pick on you.

02:21:35.000 There are some other We're good to go.

02:22:01.000 I wouldn't go that far.

02:22:03.000 That's what I hope.

02:22:04.000 Good for you.

02:22:05.000 I'm different than you.

02:22:06.000 But if I had a bet to place, I don't think he gets it to years.

02:22:12.000 Well, let's not bet on the man's life, first of all.

02:22:15.000 I'm not saying his life.

02:22:16.000 I'm saying as president.

02:22:17.000 I just said I want him to live forever.

02:22:20.000 But if I have to make a bet to how long he's going to stay in office.

02:22:23.000 Well, you saw that one conversation that he's had where he was talking about him and Kamala, that if they had a disagreement, he would just say that he had an injury or an illness.

02:22:31.000 I did not see that.

02:22:32.000 You never saw that?

02:22:33.000 It is the most bizarre thing.

02:22:36.000 What?

02:22:36.000 Oh, please find that, Jamie.

02:22:40.000 You know what I'm talking about, Jamie?

02:22:42.000 No.

02:22:43.000 Joe Biden's saying that he would fake an illness or say he has an illness.

02:22:49.000 Yeah.

02:22:50.000 Do you want to try one of these pineapple jalapeno drinks?

02:22:52.000 I will try that.

02:22:53.000 It's got CBD in it.

02:22:54.000 Thank you.

02:22:54.000 No THC though.

02:22:55.000 Okay.

02:22:56.000 It's got my face on it too.

02:22:57.000 Even better.

02:22:59.000 Yes, my flavor.

02:23:00.000 I worked with Kill Cliff to develop this.

02:23:02.000 Tell me whether or not you like it.

02:23:04.000 No pressure.

02:23:05.000 Pineapple and jalapeno I like on pizza.

02:23:09.000 I know that's a controversial statement, but I love pineapple and jalapeno.

02:23:13.000 You're a vegetarian, but I like pineapple and anchovies.

02:23:16.000 Pineapple and anchovies is the bomb diggity.

02:23:18.000 I know it seems like it would be disgusting.

02:23:20.000 This is good.

02:23:20.000 That's good, right?

02:23:21.000 That is good.

02:23:21.000 That's not bad.

02:23:22.000 No, that's really good.

02:23:23.000 Yeah.

02:23:23.000 I like that.

02:23:24.000 No sugar.

02:23:24.000 Yeah, no sugar.

02:23:26.000 25 milligrams of CBD. B vitamins.

02:23:29.000 Did you find it, Jamie?

02:23:29.000 I think.

02:23:30.000 Yeah, okay.

02:23:31.000 Yeah, that's it.

02:23:32.000 That's exactly it.

02:23:33.000 What?

02:23:34.000 You got to listen to this because it's bananas.

02:23:38.000 Listen to this.

02:23:39.000 The first lady to be told me she holds them for you.

02:23:42.000 Yes, she does.

02:23:43.000 But not with...

02:23:44.000 she and Kamala have become friends.

02:23:47.000 But all kidding aside, it's a matter of the thing, we are simpatico on our philosophy of government and simpatico on how we want to attach, approach these issues that we're facing.

02:23:59.000 And so I don't have...

02:24:01.000 And when we disagree, it'll be just like...

02:24:03.000 So far, it's been just like when Barack and I did.

02:24:05.000 It's in private.

02:24:06.000 She'll say, I think we should do A, B, C, or D. And I'll say, I like A, don't like B and C, and let's go, okay.

02:24:13.000 And like I told Barack, if I reach something where there's a fundamental disagreement we have based on a moral principle, I'll develop some disease and say I have to resign.

02:24:27.000 We don't have...

02:24:28.000 He's talking about when he was vice president.

02:24:31.000 Yeah.

02:24:31.000 That's what he's talking about.

02:24:33.000 And I think his expectation that Kamala does the same.

02:24:36.000 But he said, just like...

02:24:37.000 I know.

02:24:38.000 I know.

02:24:39.000 To me, it's clear he's talking about when he was VP, though.

02:24:41.000 To me, it's fun to pretend it's not clear.

02:24:46.000 I'm sure it is.

02:24:48.000 It's a bonkers thing to say.

02:24:50.000 The guy's saying he's going to fake a disease.

02:24:51.000 That's what I heard.

02:24:52.000 Is that what you heard, Jamie?

02:24:54.000 You heard that too, right? 0.92

02:24:56.000 The guy's got a fake disease.

02:24:58.000 I have this disease of reading context and I cannot...

02:25:01.000 Well, you've got to stop that if you want a word for me.

02:25:04.000 Listen, it's going to be a real problem.

02:25:06.000 Context, nuance, bananas.

02:25:07.000 What are you doing?

02:25:08.000 What are you, a communist?

02:25:10.000 I think we should have a pool.

02:25:12.000 We should have a JRE pool where we bet how long he lasts.

02:25:16.000 I say two years.

02:25:18.000 I think two years is a reasonable amount of time for a 78 year old man.

02:25:21.000 You know, to ask someone to work after 80, I think that's unreasonable.

02:25:26.000 I'm not even going to go here, man.

02:25:27.000 I'm not going to go here.

02:25:29.000 I hope he lives forever.

02:25:30.000 And again, becomes a god, like Thor or something.

02:25:33.000 And just rules the country in a perfect way.

02:25:35.000 I don't want anybody like Thor running the country.

02:25:39.000 What about Fat Thor?

02:25:41.000 Remember when he got fat and he was drinking a lot of beer?

02:25:43.000 That was pretty funny.

02:25:45.000 It was kind of a cool Thor.

02:25:45.000 That was a little sad, though, man.

02:25:47.000 When he got fat?

02:25:48.000 Yeah.

02:25:49.000 Well, he just lose the weight.

02:25:50.000 Come on, dude.

02:25:51.000 Don't say that. 0.93

02:25:51.000 Now you're fat shaming all the people that are fat. 0.93

02:25:53.000 They're all like, what?

02:25:54.000 It's sad that I'm fat? 1.00

02:25:55.000 Fuck you, Tulsi. 1.00

02:25:56.000 I was your number one supporter. 1.00

02:25:58.000 And they're crafting a little tweet right now to you.

02:26:01.000 What do you say to that?

02:26:01.000 What do you say?

02:26:02.000 Get up and do something about it.

02:26:03.000 Yeah, do something about it.

02:26:04.000 Get healthy.

02:26:05.000 Well, did you see the cover of Cosmopolitan magazine that had all these overweight women that said, this is healthy? 1.00

02:26:10.000 No.

02:26:11.000 Oh, good lord.

02:26:12.000 I don't read enough Cosmo, apparently.

02:26:14.000 Tulsi, you've been living in some sort of a cave somewhere. 0.99

02:26:18.000 I was gonna post about it on my Instagram, but I'm like, I legitimately feel like an asshole if I talk badly about people that are fat. 0.99

02:26:27.000 As long as they're guys, I'm okay with it. 0.99

02:26:30.000 But I feel bad talking bad about fat women. 1.00

02:26:32.000 If it was a fat guy, I'd be like, get the fuck out of here. 1.00

02:26:34.000 It's not healthy. 1.00

02:26:34.000 It's a fat guy. 1.00

02:26:35.000 But fat, I don't know why. 1.00

02:26:37.000 Because I look like a douchebag. 0.99

02:26:38.000 It's a problem. 0.99

02:26:39.000 And obviously I'm a meathead.

02:26:40.000 Only if it's a woman, though, not a man.

02:26:42.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:26:42.000 If it's a man, I'm like, fuck you, fatso. 1.00

02:26:44.000 But it's... 1.00

02:26:45.000 But if it's a woman, I'm like, I can't. 1.00

02:26:48.000 I had a thing I was going to post on Instagram.

02:26:50.000 I'm like, this is just me.

02:26:51.000 I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

02:26:53.000 I mean, look, there's health issues and complications that can contribute to people gaining weight.

02:27:02.000 And I have friends and I know people who have other underlying issues that make it difficult for them to either follow a certain diet or be physically active or whatever.

02:27:13.000 So it's not to make fun of people, but...

02:27:15.000 But it's to encourage overall health and well-being.

02:27:18.000 I think that's really what it is.

02:27:19.000 And doing what you can.

02:27:21.000 And if what you can do is go for a walk every day, go for a walk every day.

02:27:24.000 Yes, I couldn't agree more.

02:27:25.000 And make better choices as it relates to food and nutrition and what you can put in your body.

02:27:31.000 I just don't think it does anyone any good to lie and say this is healthy.

02:27:35.000 It's also the number one comorbidity factor when it comes to COVID death.

02:27:39.000 You got a picture for me? 0.98

02:27:43.000 Oh, no, I just want to show it to her, just so she can see how fucking crazy it is.

02:27:49.000 I have it saved you. 0.89

02:27:50.000 This is healthy.

02:27:51.000 That's not the one, but there's another one that had, well, the biggest one is the lady in the blue, and they got one for her.

02:27:58.000 So they had a series of them.

02:27:59.000 Well, that is healthy.

02:28:01.000 That's healthy.

02:28:01.000 Well, see, it says women...

02:28:03.000 Okay, so they're doing a bunch, but...

02:28:05.000 Yeah.

02:28:05.000 Okay, they had a bunch of different women, but they had...

02:28:08.000 I agree with that.

02:28:09.000 It says women on why wellness doesn't have to be one size fits all. 1.00

02:28:12.000 Yeah, for sure.

02:28:13.000 That's true.

02:28:14.000 That's true.

02:28:14.000 But they had morbidly obese people that they were saying, this is healthy.

02:28:18.000 Yeah.

02:28:19.000 And there was one where the lady, like, she had no neck. 1.00

02:28:21.000 Like, her head started here, and she was just this big... 0.50

02:28:25.000 There are clearly health issues. 0.76

02:28:28.000 You're literally morbidly obese.

02:28:31.000 That's terrifying to say to a person that this is healthy in a major publication. 0.93

02:28:36.000 You're hurting them.

02:28:37.000 You're hurting them by doing it.

02:28:38.000 And I think that's kind of part of the bigger thing, and I've seen this around COVID as well.

02:28:45.000 Give people the truth.

02:28:47.000 Give us the truth and let us take actions based on that information.

02:28:54.000 And just like this, there are serious health complications and issues that are there if you are morbidly obese.

02:29:02.000 That is a fact that's based on science.

02:29:05.000 You know, early on in the COVID pandemic, when they were saying like, oh, masks won't do anything to help protect you or others from getting COVID. And obviously it comes out later that,

02:29:23.000 oh, well, he only said it because there weren't enough medical grade masks to go around.

02:29:29.000 He had his own motive for saying it, even though he knew it wasn't actually true.

02:29:34.000 Just give people the facts and the information.

02:29:37.000 It's like a crying wolf.

02:29:37.000 You're a crying wolf.

02:29:38.000 You're doing a terrible thing because no one's going to believe him now. 0.95

02:29:42.000 Now he could say, well, you have to wear a mask now.

02:29:44.000 Well, why would I believe you?

02:29:45.000 Back in March, you said no one should have to wear a mask.

02:29:47.000 And it's just like the, you know, well, you can't, you know, COVID spreads more rapidly if you have people gathering in close quarters, shoulder to shoulder, large groups of people.

02:29:56.000 Don't do it.

02:29:57.000 But it's okay to do it if you are, you know, Protesting.

02:30:02.000 Exactly.

02:30:03.000 If you're at a protest and people agree with the cause, but you can't go to a funeral.

02:30:10.000 You can't bury your loved ones because that's not a just enough cause.

02:30:15.000 De Blasio had the craziest one.

02:30:17.000 He was saying you can protest, but as long as it's a Black Lives Matter protest.

02:30:20.000 That's the only protest.

02:30:21.000 Yeah.

02:30:22.000 But all of these things, like these things, and then, you know, you have Gavin Newsom going and having dinner at a fancy restaurant, and then you have freaking surfers getting arrested for going out and surfing by themselves on the beach.

02:30:33.000 Literally police chasing them down the beach, like trying to arrest this guy who's not in a large group of people in a public place.

02:30:41.000 This is the hypocrisy that people absolutely lose faith and trust in the decisions that they're making.

02:30:50.000 And again, points to like, well, this is what happens when you have people who are incompetent in positions of power and leadership.

02:30:59.000 Well, it's also their attitude towards everyone else.

02:31:03.000 They don't want to follow the rules they're asking other people to enforce.

02:31:06.000 This is the same man that was telling people to wear a mask in between bites of food.

02:31:10.000 And he also lied about being outdoors.

02:31:12.000 It was outdoors?

02:31:14.000 Yeah.

02:31:14.000 No, it wasn't.

02:31:15.000 There's a fucking chandelier above you, man. 1.00

02:31:16.000 It makes something bad even worse. 1.00

02:31:18.000 Yeah.

02:31:18.000 Like once he got found out because of that video or the picture or whatever it was.

02:31:22.000 No, no, no, no.

02:31:23.000 He got found out and then the pictures came out after he said it because he was saying it was outdoors.

02:31:29.000 And then the people saw the pictures like, there's a chandelier above you, bro.

02:31:33.000 It's supposed to be the stars.

02:31:35.000 Like, that's outdoors.

02:31:37.000 Outdoors is space. 1.00

02:31:40.000 It's not a fucking chandelier, you crackhead. 0.99

02:31:43.000 And they're also right next to people. 1.00

02:31:45.000 No social distancing.

02:31:47.000 No masks.

02:31:48.000 It's like, come on.

02:31:50.000 Oh, it's so gross.

02:31:51.000 And what we were talking about earlier, the people that are in the restaurant business really feel like political pawns.

02:31:58.000 They don't feel like it makes any sense.

02:32:00.000 There was another one I saw in California where this woman had been told to shut down her restaurant. 0.93

02:32:07.000 I think it was when they shut down both indoor and outdoor dining not too long ago.

02:32:12.000 And her restaurant was right next to some big film production that was feeding the crew and doing what they're doing, going on with their production, but her little restaurant was not allowed to keep their doors open.

02:32:25.000 Made no sense.

02:32:26.000 Absolutely no sense.

02:32:27.000 No sense.

02:32:28.000 There's no science behind it.

02:32:29.000 Also, there's no evidence.

02:32:31.000 No common sense.

02:32:31.000 There's no evidence that it spreads outside.

02:32:34.000 There's no evidence.

02:32:35.000 The whole thing is bananas.

02:32:37.000 And to see her crying and furious that she spent all of her hard-earned money that she didn't even have because she was locked out for so long of her business.

02:32:45.000 Now, finally gets open.

02:32:46.000 She's doing some outdoor dining, just trying to stay alive.

02:32:49.000 They make her shut down with no evidence whatsoever.

02:32:51.000 It doesn't make any sense.

02:32:52.000 And the woman who made the decision to shut down all outdoor dining... 0.99

02:32:57.000 We're good to go.

02:33:20.000 My friends who run Felix, my friend Janet Zuccherini, she's the owner of Felix.

02:33:25.000 It's my favorite restaurant in LA. It's in Venice.

02:33:27.000 It's an amazing place.

02:33:28.000 She had the perfect statement. 0.99

02:33:30.000 She said, they're just throwing shit against the wall, hoping something sticks. 0.98

02:33:34.000 There's no evidence that the COVID spread is coming significantly from restaurants. 0.99

02:33:38.000 They need to do something.

02:33:40.000 So they go, we're going to shut this down.

02:33:42.000 We're going to shut that down.

02:33:43.000 Colorado recently had a study that showed there's no evidence that the spread is coming from gyms.

02:33:47.000 They're like, there's no evidence.

02:33:48.000 These are healthy people.

02:33:49.000 These are people that are exercising and working out hard.

02:33:52.000 Where you're getting it from is people in tight groups where they're on top of each other like you're forced to be when you're stuck at home.

02:33:59.000 That's when people are getting it.

02:34:01.000 Yeah, the leadership that is making decisions, not based on science or basic common sense, but instead making these decisions that are seemingly completely arbitrary, and not only making arbitrary decisions,

02:34:18.000 but I think we're good to go.

02:34:45.000 Or other countries who've handled this whole situation far more responsibly, making decisions that are based on science and common sense.

02:34:53.000 Yeah, we've handled it the worst.

02:34:55.000 Yeah.

02:34:55.000 It's bananas.

02:34:56.000 I would like an alternate ending.

02:34:58.000 You know, I would love if, you know, you don't have some DVDs that give you the option of an alternate ending.

02:35:03.000 When I was a kid, I read those books where you got to choose your own adventure.

02:35:07.000 Like you get to pick, there's like five different options on how you get to choose how the book ends.

02:35:11.000 I would have loved to have seen what would have happened in these states if Obama had been president.

02:35:17.000 Like, what if this had happened instead during the Trump administration?

02:35:21.000 What if this had happened in 2012 or 2014 or something like that?

02:35:26.000 Like, what would be different?

02:35:28.000 Would they allow things to open?

02:35:30.000 How much of what happened was people using people's businesses as political pawns?

02:35:37.000 Was using the economy as a political pawn?

02:35:39.000 I really wonder and I hate that I do because it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

02:35:45.000 Yeah.

02:35:46.000 I don't know the answer to that.

02:35:47.000 It's a pretty powerful hypothetical.

02:35:49.000 You gotta get the DVD. But, yeah, right.

02:35:51.000 Click alternate ending.

02:35:53.000 Get the Blu-ray.

02:35:54.000 Get the alternate ending.

02:35:55.000 But that politicizing of this crisis has been a major contributor to the problems that we are seeing, you know, and...

02:36:06.000 Yeah, I mean, so many of these things we're talking about, they kind of all go back to this same root cause where we have people, whether they're elected or the bureaucrats that the elected people put into power, making decisions not based on what's in the best interest of the people.

02:36:23.000 That's what it comes down to.

02:36:24.000 Whatever the motive is, power, party politics, campaigns, money, you know, all of these different things, it all points to that same place where The concept of servant leadership, people in these positions actually being motivated to make decisions based on how they can best serve the people in our country,

02:36:45.000 it's lost on so many levels.

02:36:49.000 And that's what we've got to bring back.

02:36:51.000 Now, when you were a congresswoman, how much time did you spend in D.C. versus time in Hawaii?

02:36:58.000 I got back to Hawaii as often as possible.

02:37:01.000 On average, like two to three times a month.

02:37:05.000 What was the flight from D.C.? It's a good 12, 13 hours from takeoff to landing.

02:37:12.000 Not including, like it takes about 45 minutes to drive to the airport in D.C. Do you have to fly to L.A. and then fly to Hawaii?

02:37:18.000 My usual stopovers were like from D.C. to Hawaii was usually L.A. or San Francisco.

02:37:23.000 Honolulu to D.C. was usually like Houston or Denver.

02:37:27.000 Okay.

02:37:29.000 Long flight, the jet lag was probably the five or six hour time difference.

02:37:34.000 That was a bigger challenge.

02:37:38.000 But it just made a world of difference to me to get back home, be on the ground, be able to go out and see people, listen, see what's going on, get in the ocean, and just have that reset as often as possible so that I never wanted to get in a place where I felt comfortable in Washington.

02:37:59.000 Good for you.

02:38:01.000 Somebody asked me that in an interview early on or year one or two.

02:38:05.000 They're like, oh, so do you feel like you fit in now in Washington?

02:38:07.000 I'm like, God, no.

02:38:10.000 I don't ever want to feel that way because, unfortunately, Washington is like this bubble that's so disconnected from reality that it makes it so that these decisions that are being made are disconnected from reality.

02:38:28.000 The reality that people are living every day.

02:38:30.000 Do you plan on living the same way when you're doing your podcast?

02:38:33.000 Do you plan on...

02:38:34.000 Living, basing in Hawaii and then traveling.

02:38:36.000 Which is going a lot of different places.

02:38:37.000 Yeah.

02:38:38.000 And once things start to come down a little bit with some timing and travel.

02:38:43.000 And I think it'll just be cool to be able to go out and meet people where they are.

02:38:46.000 Whether it's their home or they work or whatever.

02:38:48.000 And be able to talk to them about...

02:38:50.000 A whole host of different things.

02:38:52.000 Not just politics.

02:38:53.000 I want this to be about life.

02:38:58.000 There's so much about who we are as individuals.

02:39:02.000 I think we can, like you said, we can learn a lot.

02:39:04.000 We can gain a lot when we learn more about who we are as people.

02:39:07.000 I know you're an optimist.

02:39:09.000 So give me the optimist perspective of how you think this country bounces back from COVID. From the lockdowns, from the economic disaster that we're currently enveloped in.

02:39:21.000 My optimism points to the hope that we find, and this is what I hope happens in Hawaii as well, is that we find some innovation and ingenuity in how we can move forward together as a country and In Hawaii,

02:39:45.000 having a predominantly tourism-based economy is a recipe for failure should something like this happen.

02:39:53.000 And it happened before, after 9-11, where everything tanked because people weren't flying.

02:39:59.000 So the lives and the livelihood of people in places like Hawaii, and there are others...

02:40:05.000 We cannot be dependent on a massive event like this.

02:40:08.000 So let's diversify the economy.

02:40:10.000 Let's look at how we can invest in new industries, entrepreneurs, innovators in different areas and different sectors.

02:40:20.000 So from an economic perspective, I hope that we come through this maybe with different ideas on how we approach things and how we can better harden ourselves.

02:40:32.000 Some of it is not possible, but I hope that there are new ideas and I hope that...

02:40:39.000 I really think that we as a people are becoming more health aware because of this.

02:40:45.000 And we'll look at our own health and that of those around us so that we are better protected as people in situations like this.

02:40:57.000 Yeah, I really, really hope so.

02:40:59.000 I really hope people start taking on a regular exercise routine, start eating healthier, and start supplementing their diet with vitamins.

02:41:07.000 I think nothing could be better to protect you from something like this happen again.

02:41:12.000 And I think in a lot of ways we got lucky with this disease.

02:41:14.000 And it sounds like a terrible thing to say, but this disease, like you saw my friend who was here earlier, she got it.

02:41:22.000 Got over it like that.

02:41:24.000 She didn't even know she had it.

02:41:25.000 That's not the case with the plague.

02:41:27.000 There's no asymptomatic versions of the plague, right?

02:41:30.000 You get it and you're horribly ill and most people don't live.

02:41:33.000 We're lucky.

02:41:34.000 We got lucky with this one.

02:41:36.000 This is not like the swine flu.

02:41:38.000 This is not like some of the worst pandemics the world's ever seen.

02:41:42.000 It's not Ebola.

02:41:42.000 We got fairly lucky.

02:41:45.000 It's still horrible.

02:41:46.000 It's not minimizing the deaths and the sorrow and the sadness of people that lost loved ones.

02:41:51.000 But this could have been far worse.

02:41:54.000 And I think that's part of the problem is that we expected it to be far worse when the pandemic was first arriving on our shores, and then we never really made the adjustments to treat it for what it really is.

02:42:06.000 Yeah, and that focus, both for the short term and the long term, on health and wellness, I think is at the heart of all of this.

02:42:14.000 I think it is, you know, you've done a lot on this show to talk about vitamin D, for example, and how important it is that, you know, we're taking it, that we're taking these different supplements that help strengthen our immune system and protect us specifically from this virus,

02:42:32.000 but just help us be healthier overall.

02:42:35.000 I went and looked on the CDC website to see what they had to say about it.

02:42:41.000 Nothing.

02:42:42.000 I think they recently had something about vitamin D. Did they?

02:42:45.000 Yeah, fairly recently, in December.

02:42:47.000 Okay.

02:42:47.000 In December, somebody sent it to me.

02:42:50.000 Oh, look, hey, the CDC has finally posted something about implementing vitamin D into your diet.

02:42:56.000 Yeah.

02:42:56.000 All I could find, the initial thing that came up was, this has not been proven to blah, blah, blah.

02:43:03.000 Well, they don't want you running around and letting people cough in your mouth, but...

02:43:06.000 Right.

02:43:06.000 But there's a better way to be able to say, hey, here are some things you can do to better improve your health and your immune system.

02:43:14.000 There's a whole list of them.

02:43:15.000 Yeah.

02:43:15.000 I mean, there really should be, and we have talked about this in the podcast, and I had Dr. Mark Gordon on recently, and he talked to me about quercetin, which is an ionophore, and zinc, and the two of them in combination.

02:43:27.000 I could send you this study, but there's...

02:43:29.000 A peer-reviewed study on quercetin and zinc, and apparently zinc, when you take it, zinc has powerful antiviral properties to it, but it's difficult for it to get in the cells.

02:43:39.000 It doesn't absorb as easily.

02:43:41.000 But with an ionophore, like quercetin, it allows it to get into the cell more.

02:43:46.000 And he said this also could be the case for curcumin and turmeric, which are, you know, they have anti-inflammatory properties, and they could also help Absorb it together, but he recommends quercetin, and you can get it from Amazon, from any vitamin store, whatever.

02:44:01.000 It's not expensive.

02:44:02.000 It's a normal vitamin, but you take 1,000 milligrams of quercetin and 30 milligrams of zinc. 0.78

02:44:09.000 My friend Andrew Marr, who is here with him, he does jiu-jitsu, and he did jiu-jitsu with a guy who was feeling like shit, and he got tested after he was rolling, and he felt weak and fatigued.

02:44:21.000 And so after he's rolling, he went to the doctor, got a test, and then called Andrew and said, dude, I'm sorry, but I'm positive for COVID. Andrew never got it because he's taking quercetin and zinc.

02:44:32.000 And Andrew is a veteran, and he's a part of – Mark Gordon works with him on the Warrior Angel Foundation.

02:44:40.000 It's basically treating soldiers with traumatic brain injuries.

02:44:43.000 Wow.

02:44:44.000 Treating him with a series of anti-inflammatory nutrients as well as some, you know, different hormones and medications that helps these guys.

02:44:54.000 But one of the things that he recommends highly is quercetin and zinc.

02:44:57.000 Interesting.

02:44:57.000 Yeah, and the two of them in combination probably protected him from getting COVID from a guy who's doing...

02:45:03.000 You're doing jujitsu.

02:45:04.000 I mean...

02:45:04.000 Yeah.

02:45:05.000 It's pretty intimate.

02:45:06.000 You're sweating on each other.

02:45:08.000 Yeah.

02:45:08.000 You're breathing each other.

02:45:09.000 I mean, you're...

02:45:10.000 We're right on each other.

02:45:11.000 Exactly.

02:45:12.000 Yeah, and he didn't get it, which is pretty crazy.

02:45:13.000 Yeah, that's incredible.

02:45:14.000 Pretty crazy.

02:45:15.000 I mean, obviously it's one anecdotal.

02:45:17.000 Yeah.

02:45:17.000 I'm not saying go do jujitsu with people who are COVID positive if you take zinc.

02:45:22.000 That's an important clarification.

02:45:24.000 Yeah, it's pretty important because people are like, hey, I'm going now. 1.00

02:45:26.000 Bobby says he's sick, but now I'm going to fucking kick his ass because he's tired. 0.99

02:45:30.000 And because I took... 1.00

02:45:31.000 What is it called?

02:45:32.000 Corsetan?

02:45:33.000 I took Corsetan once.

02:45:34.000 I'll send you the study.

02:45:35.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:45:35.000 I'd be interested to see it.

02:45:36.000 I mean, this is all legit stuff.

02:45:37.000 But also just how it's helping people, soldiers and service members with traumatic brain injury.

02:45:43.000 Because so many people...

02:45:45.000 You know, come back and are struggling with the side effects of that and are just given like these hardcore prescription drugs that aren't ultimately helping address the underlying problem and just end up causing more sickness or side effects and more drugs and more side effects in that endless cycle to be able to have a really holistic response to be able to help.

02:46:08.000 What are you doing there, fella?

02:46:09.000 What happened?

02:46:10.000 You watching some stuff while we're doing the show?

02:46:11.000 Yeah.

02:46:16.000 It's quercetin is a part of Dr. Gordon's protocol.

02:46:20.000 He's a large protocol of different nutrients and vitamins and things that will help these guys.

02:46:28.000 And one of the things that happens to a lot of these soldiers that have experienced traumatic brain injuries or they've been hit by blasts from kicking open doors and things along those lines is a lot of inflammation.

02:46:41.000 Inflammation is like the root of evil.

02:46:43.000 It really is.

02:46:44.000 For everything.

02:46:44.000 It really is.

02:46:45.000 And Dr. Gordon is, I mean, he's a saint of a human being.

02:46:49.000 I mean, he literally dedicates all of his time to working with these soldiers that have experienced traumatic brain injury.

02:46:56.000 Treats most of them for free.

02:46:58.000 And the money that he does raise literally pours right back into the organization.

02:47:03.000 That's fantastic.

02:47:03.000 He's a man of, like, he's like, I have, this is what he says, this is his quote.

02:47:06.000 He goes, I need a bottle of scotch a month.

02:47:11.000 He doesn't have any needs.

02:47:13.000 So he's completely dedicated.

02:47:15.000 But he's a brilliant guy who, you know, when he's on the show, he just rattles off study after study off the top of his head and explain why these things work well in conjunction.

02:47:26.000 But he takes quercetin and zinc.

02:47:29.000 Yeah.

02:47:30.000 That's something that just before I was leaving Congress, I was talking with some Department of Defense officials who are responsible for health and wellness, and they're starting to shift more.

02:47:43.000 They're talking about shifting more towards a holistic approach to care, both preventive care for service members as well as how people are being cared for when they come back.

02:47:55.000 After having gone through TBI and a whole host of other physical issues, overexposure to different metals and everything else, I think there's a long way to go, but I was really pleasantly surprised to see at least the language is starting to change,

02:48:12.000 the mindset is starting to change to say, the amount of money that we as taxpayers spend on healthcare for our service members alone is pretty astronomical.

02:48:24.000 We need to provide our service members the best healthcare possible.

02:48:28.000 The healthcare that's being provided right now is not the best healthcare possible.

02:48:31.000 In many cases, it's just like, okay, here's more drugs, rather than actually solving, figuring out why are so many of our service members getting sick?

02:48:42.000 Why are so many service members coming back from multiple deployments, maybe in their late 30s, getting sick and dying from cancer?

02:48:50.000 Or coming down with serious respiratory problems.

02:48:52.000 Like actually, you know, there's now, okay, toxic burn pits are a serious issue that's contributing to this.

02:48:57.000 Okay, so how do we deal with this?

02:48:59.000 How do we try to minimize or prevent the ramifications of this exposure and stop, you know, you can't mitigate every single risk.

02:49:08.000 Obviously, if you're going in a war zone, there's going to be some things you're exposed to, but how do you try to minimize and mitigate the impacts of those things?

02:49:18.000 Let's do this right away and not wait 5, 10, 20 years like our Vietnam veterans did who were exposed to Agent Orange and then so many dying off from cancer directly related to that exposure.

02:49:31.000 So that kind of change in mindset needs to change within the DOD as well as the VA. Yeah, I wasn't even aware of toxic burn pits until people on the podcast explained.

02:49:40.000 I think it was Evan Hafer, right?

02:49:41.000 Was it Evan Hafer?

02:49:42.000 I listened to that one.

02:49:44.000 I think the numbers of service members who have had prolonged exposure to massive toxic burn pits are underestimated.

02:49:57.000 I think so too.

02:49:58.000 When you look at the millions of troops who've deployed not once but multiple times, we had a massive toxic burn pit on the camp where I was that soldiers were literally assigned to pulling security around this burn pit.

02:50:11.000 So their place of duty every day was next to this burn pit breathing everything in.

02:50:17.000 And that was literally everything from paints, plastics, construction waste, human waste, metals, everything.

02:50:25.000 And it just, you know, I mean, there was a huge, like, what do you call it?

02:50:31.000 Just a huge cloud of this ashy soot kind of fog that was over our camp all the time. 0.99

02:50:39.000 It's crazy.

02:50:40.000 It's crazy that that's their solution for dealing with garbage.

02:50:43.000 Yeah.

02:50:44.000 And that this, I mean, we're talking about this post-911 era alone, what to speak of the Gulf War, guys.

02:50:51.000 But it's a big, big problem.

02:50:54.000 And the DOD and the VA have not done anywhere near enough that To acknowledge that this is a problem and to link that acknowledgement with actually providing care and support to service members who are getting really sick because of that exposure and their family members,

02:51:13.000 husbands and wives who are quitting their jobs because now they have to become full-time caregivers.

02:51:19.000 I've introduced Congressman Brian Mass from Florida, who's also a veteran.

02:51:24.000 He lost both of his legs and an arm.

02:51:27.000 He was an explosive ordinance disposal guy.

02:51:31.000 He and I have worked together on this, introducing legislation, basically pushing for more transparency so we know exactly how many people.

02:51:51.000 Now before I let you go, we have to talk about our boy, Max Holloway.

02:51:59.000 Yes.

02:52:00.000 Did you watch that?

02:52:00.000 Oh my gosh.

02:52:02.000 Did you watch that?

02:52:03.000 Yes.

02:52:03.000 It's like he's on another planet.

02:52:05.000 That was incredible.

02:52:06.000 He's in the Matrix.

02:52:06.000 That was incredible.

02:52:08.000 He's literally on another planet right now.

02:52:10.000 Yeah.

02:52:11.000 Insane.

02:52:12.000 I was so stoked and so excited and so mind-blown watching him.

02:52:18.000 It was incredible.

02:52:19.000 How he was dodging these, looking away. 1.00

02:52:24.000 And Calvin Cater is a killer. 0.97

02:52:26.000 I don't know much about him. 0.99

02:52:28.000 Oh my god, he's elite.

02:52:30.000 He was the guy in the division on the Upcome where a lot of people looked at him and go, that guy's a future champion, including me. 0.98

02:52:38.000 I mean, he is a killer. 0.99

02:52:40.000 Calvin Cater is a killer. 0.99

02:52:41.000 It's not just Max Holloway's performance. 0.78

02:52:44.000 It's that he had that performance against Calvin Cater.

02:52:46.000 That's what was so spectacular about it.

02:52:48.000 And the fact that Calvin was widely considered the best boxer in the division before that fight.

02:52:52.000 And the fact that Max beat the brakes off of him.

02:52:56.000 I mean, he landed more strikes than anyone has ever landed in the history of the sport in one fight.

02:53:02.000 Incredible.

02:53:03.000 And he holds No.

02:53:04.000 1, No.

02:53:04.000 2, and No.

02:53:05.000 3 now.

02:53:06.000 Yeah, Max is a freak.

02:53:08.000 He's amazing and couldn't be a nicer guy.

02:53:13.000 Couldn't be nicer.

02:53:16.000 I mean, we're like all of Hawaii.

02:53:18.000 We're so proud of him.

02:53:19.000 And Punahele Soriano, he also had a great fight that same night.

02:53:26.000 These fighters coming out of Hawaii, obviously, we love and we're proud of them because they're coming from Hawaii.

02:53:30.000 But you look at Max, and he represents what we call aloha.

02:53:36.000 Which is that respect and that kindness and like, no, you ain't rolling over for anybody, but like when it's time to fight, you're going to fight.

02:53:47.000 But you don't lose that sense of respect and aloha and that kindness through it all.

02:53:52.000 He's such a likable guy too.

02:53:53.000 Do you know he learned how to fight, learned how to strike from watching UFC video games?

02:53:58.000 I did not know that.

02:53:59.000 Playing video games.

02:54:00.000 He would do something in the video game and it would work.

02:54:03.000 And then he would go try it out.

02:54:04.000 And then he would try it out sparring.

02:54:05.000 I'm not kidding.

02:54:06.000 I'm not kidding.

02:54:07.000 He literally didn't have like a legit striking coach in the beginning of his career.

02:54:11.000 He talked about it on the podcast.

02:54:13.000 That's incredible.

02:54:13.000 And I was like, what are you talking about?

02:54:15.000 He goes, yeah!

02:54:16.000 He goes, I would try it in the game.

02:54:18.000 He's this kid out in YNI like, oh, brah!

02:54:20.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:54:22.000 That's exactly what he's like.

02:54:23.000 Wow.

02:54:23.000 He was in the shadow of BJ Penn, initially.

02:54:26.000 Because BJ was one of the all-time greats.

02:54:29.000 And he was the man out of Hawaii.

02:54:31.000 But I would say that Max's strength was in grappling.

02:54:34.000 Yes.

02:54:34.000 More than striking, right?

02:54:36.000 Well, no, his strength was very high in striking, too.

02:54:39.000 I mean, he knocked out Matt Hughes with one punch.

02:54:41.000 He stopped Sean Shirk with strikes. 0.60

02:54:43.000 BJ fucked a lot of people up with strikes. 0.96

02:54:45.000 But, you know, his problem was, you know, ultimately... 0.65

02:54:54.000 Right.

02:54:57.000 Right. 1.00

02:55:09.000 He's insane!

02:55:10.000 Watching that fight, I watched it again yesterday, I was like, this is bananas!

02:55:14.000 The amount of strikes he's landing on an incredibly dangerous guy in Calvin Cater.

02:55:23.000 And he's still under 30. This is the thing, Khabib Nurmagomedov watched the fight, and Khabib said Max Holloway has the potential to be the greatest fighter ever.

02:55:30.000 That is huge, coming from Khabib. 1.00

02:55:34.000 Coming from arguably the greatest fighter ever!

02:55:36.000 Like, the guy, Khabib is, I mean, if he's not, if it's either Jon Jones, him, or Mighty Mouse, those are the three widely discussed goats.

02:55:44.000 Right.

02:55:44.000 The greatest of all time.

02:55:45.000 Right.

02:55:46.000 And I kind of lean towards Jon Jones because of his accomplishments, because he's beaten more people over a longer period of time, but Khabib has barely lost a round.

02:55:57.000 Yeah.

02:55:58.000 He locked like a couple of rounds in his whole fight, in his whole career, never been dropped, dominated everybody, and he's undefeated at 29-0, which is madness in a division like 155. Is he still, is he retired?

02:56:11.000 He's not sure.

02:56:12.000 Because I thought that last fight, I thought he was like, this is it.

02:56:14.000 That's what he said, but he's decided that if something spectacular happens on Saturday night with Conor and Dustin Poirier, he might make a comeback.

02:56:22.000 He's going to make a comeback.

02:56:23.000 He's in his prime!

02:56:24.000 He can't stay away.

02:56:25.000 He's a destroyer.

02:56:27.000 He's going to be bored.

02:56:28.000 I think he promised his mom after his father died.

02:56:31.000 His father died from COVID. Oh, wow.

02:56:33.000 Yeah.

02:56:34.000 And his mom made him promise that this was his last fight.

02:56:38.000 And so he beat Justin Gaethje, who was thought to be the most dangerous guy in the division.

02:56:42.000 He beat him.

02:56:45.000 But you know what?

02:56:46.000 This Conor and Dustin Poirier fight is going to be so huge.

02:56:50.000 Are you calling that one way or the other?

02:56:52.000 No, I'm not going to Abu Dhabi.

02:56:53.000 I'm right here, Tulsi Gabbard.

02:56:55.000 I have a show with Dave Chappelle.

02:56:57.000 Are you putting the odds on one guy or another on that?

02:57:01.000 Oh, I never do that, Tulsi.

02:57:03.000 Okay.

02:57:03.000 I never do that.

02:57:05.000 I think it's a very interesting fight.

02:57:07.000 I think Dustin's a far better fighter than the first time they fought.

02:57:09.000 But I think Conor's better, too.

02:57:12.000 Conor, I know a lot of people that have witnessed his training camp and I've seen a lot of videos and I've seen a lot of conversations about his training for this.

02:57:22.000 He's very, very well prepared.

02:57:23.000 I mean, he's very focused. 0.99

02:57:24.000 I think he felt like he fucked up in the Khabib fight. 0.98

02:57:29.000 He wasn't focused enough. 0.98

02:57:31.000 He had too many distractions and he just didn't fight his best.

02:57:35.000 That said, even if he was in Tip Top Magoo, in the best shape of his life, Khabib's Khabib. 0.70

02:57:40.000 And ultimately, Khabib's strength in grappling is so overwhelming.

02:57:44.000 He does that to everybody.

02:57:46.000 Right.

02:57:47.000 Everybody.

02:57:48.000 Everybody gets mauled.

02:57:49.000 Yeah.

02:57:49.000 Like, that's what you're signing up for.

02:57:50.000 I'm signing up to...

02:57:51.000 I want to take a chance at winning, but also most likely going to get mauled.

02:57:56.000 Read the fine print.

02:57:58.000 I am so excited about Max Holloway.

02:58:02.000 Max reached out today to try to get on the show.

02:58:04.000 I'm going to try to get him on as soon as possible.

02:58:08.000 Catch him on his way back, maybe.

02:58:09.000 Maybe.

02:58:10.000 I'm just blown away by him.

02:58:11.000 I don't even understand it.

02:58:13.000 It was so damn good.

02:58:15.000 It was humbling.

02:58:18.000 Sometimes you watch an athlete and they put out a performance that's so far above everybody else.

02:58:25.000 You just kind of go...

02:58:26.000 Wow, like everybody was calling it to the performance of the decade.

02:58:29.000 Like everybody!

02:58:30.000 Yeah, I can see why.

02:58:31.000 Which is crazy.

02:58:31.000 I can see why.

02:58:32.000 And I was surprised in some of his post-fight interviews when he started talking about how he wasn't really sparring in his training for the fight.

02:58:40.000 No, he didn't spar at all.

02:58:41.000 At all.

02:58:42.000 And to have that kind of performance without sparring and why he said he's not sparring, right?

02:58:49.000 Well, I think he had decided, I think possibly after the Dustin Poirier fight, that he had taken too many shots in sparring and that it was not necessary.

02:58:58.000 He's like, I already know how to fight.

02:59:00.000 Unnecessary risk.

02:59:00.000 And I think there's a real good argument for that.

02:59:02.000 I think sparring initially is very important for fighters because you've got to learn timing and distance.

02:59:06.000 But there's a way to do that when a guy has as much experience as Max does.

02:59:12.000 Obviously, it worked.

02:59:14.000 But that's a raging debate in fighting, whether or not sparring is important.

02:59:21.000 It's certainly important initially.

02:59:24.000 Right, to get the fundamentals, to get the muscle memory, and to get the movement, right?

02:59:28.000 Yeah, but there's ways to do it where you're not hitting each other.

02:59:31.000 You know, there's drills that you can do, and there's drills with pads.

02:59:36.000 There's quite a few guys that have implemented that, though.

02:59:39.000 Yeah, and it's controversial, but I don't know.

02:59:42.000 With Max, I'd say whatever you just did, keep doing that.

02:59:45.000 Yeah, keep at it.

02:59:45.000 If it's not sparring, then never spar again.

02:59:47.000 Yeah.

02:59:48.000 Because, I mean, that was phenomenal.

02:59:49.000 I saw that side-by-side meme somebody did with Muhammad Ali and Max Holloway.

02:59:55.000 Did you see that?

02:59:55.000 No, I didn't see that.

02:59:56.000 They're almost in exactly the same stance, like that wide front back leg stance where they're just like dodging the other guy's punch.

03:00:04.000 Oh, really?

03:00:05.000 And it's uncanny how similar they are.

03:00:09.000 In the pose?

03:00:10.000 Yeah, in the pose and just how they're...

03:00:12.000 There you go.

03:00:13.000 Oh, there it is.

03:00:13.000 Oh, that's crazy.

03:00:14.000 Look at that.

03:00:15.000 Yeah, they're like mirror images of each other.

03:00:18.000 Even the opposing fighters, almost mirror images of like Big Miss. 0.82

03:00:24.000 That was nuts in the last round when he dropped his hands and was talking to the commentators like, I'm the best boxer in the UFC, while he's dodging punches.

03:00:32.000 That's crazy. 1.00

03:00:32.000 Like, what the fuck, man? 1.00

03:00:34.000 He was just feeling it. 1.00

03:00:35.000 Yeah, he was clearly completely there.

03:00:38.000 And again, couldn't be a nicer person. 0.97

03:00:40.000 I fucking love that guy. 0.99

03:00:41.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.90

03:00:42.000 Same here.

03:00:43.000 He did, I think this was after he first got the belt for the first time, came back, and they organized a hometown parade for him in Wyanai.

03:00:54.000 I went just to congratulate him and just celebrate him and Yancey Medeiros, who had fought that same night.

03:01:02.000 But it was the coolest thing to see Max at home, in his hometown, and to see how many kids and young people were so inspired and so excited to see one of their own go out and frickin' get it done.

03:01:23.000 That's awesome.

03:01:45.000 And good for you.

03:01:46.000 So here's the, this is Tulsi Gabbard.

03:01:49.000 Let's hear it.

03:01:53.000 Aloha everyone.

03:01:54.000 I want to tell you about a new project that I'll be launching very soon.

03:01:59.000 Over the last several years, one of the most beautiful things that I have experienced and appreciated throughout my service in public office and in the military are the people I've met from all across the country, from around the world, and the incredible conversations that we've shared.

03:02:17.000 So whether it was visiting a farmer in Iowa or a pastor in South Carolina or a small business owner in Syria, We are all connected.

03:02:29.000 Children of God, brothers and sisters, and we have so much more in common than we may realize.

03:02:37.000 Now more than ever, during these dark and divisive and dangerous times, we have the opportunity to be a positive force, to help heal the divide, to treat each other with aloha, with respect and love,

03:02:53.000 and better understand each other.

03:02:55.000 So on my show, I will go beyond the soundbite and share in-depth information, insights, and thought-provoking discussions.

03:03:06.000 And I'll answer your questions, whether they are about foreign policy, politics, the environment, or maybe just questions you have about life, yoga meditation, music, surfing, or food.

03:03:21.000 We will tackle the great challenges of our time together.

03:03:25.000 We will go where others won't, gain new perspectives, and we will never shy away from the tough conversations.

03:03:34.000 So I hope you'll join me.

03:03:36.000 Click subscribe and I look forward to seeing you soon.

03:03:40.000 Aloha.

03:03:43.000 All right.

03:03:44.000 There it is.

03:03:45.000 There it is.

03:03:45.000 Look forward to seeing you soon.

03:03:47.000 I look forward to seeing you as well.

03:03:48.000 Congratulations on your new venture and I can't wait to see it.

03:03:51.000 Great to catch up with you.

03:03:53.000 Always great.

03:03:53.000 Always great to see you.

03:03:54.000 Next time, hopefully it's out in Hawaii.

03:03:57.000 Yes.

03:03:57.000 Sounds good.

03:03:58.000 Let's make it happen.

03:03:58.000 All right.

03:03:59.000 Thank you, Tulsi.

03:03:59.000 Thank you.

03:04:00.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - January 21, 2021

Joe Rogan Experience #1599 - Tulsi Gabbard

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