The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1887 - Maynard James Keenan

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day!

00:00:11.000 Do you ever sauna?

00:00:13.000 Do you do that?

00:00:14.000 I have a sauna, yeah.

00:00:15.000 Yeah?

00:00:15.000 Do you use it?

00:00:18.000 Initially it had issues because it was like a janky-ass actual heater that died, and we had to try to get another one.

00:00:27.000 Swap it out.

00:00:27.000 Yeah, we had to order another one.

00:00:29.000 No luck with that company, so we just...

00:00:31.000 It's like, oh, that company doesn't exist anymore.

00:00:33.000 And so, had to get a different one in there, but it's fine.

00:00:36.000 We just got done putting a bunch of the oil on it, sauna oil, because Arizona, the sun just cooks the fucking wood, so it was cracking in spaces.

00:00:49.000 The real hardcore folks, they use the wood-fired sauna, old school, like you're cooking pizza. 0.84

00:00:54.000 Yeah, well, they can do that.

00:00:56.000 Yeah.

00:00:57.000 I'm not that guy.

00:00:58.000 Yeah, they sell those.

00:00:59.000 I'm like, that seems like a lot of work.

00:01:01.000 Plus, you gotta kill trees.

00:01:05.000 We use it quite a bit, actually, when it was running.

00:01:09.000 But then I was on the road, and then Harvest, we didn't bother with it until just now we got it back running.

00:01:15.000 It's so good for you, man.

00:01:16.000 It's so good.

00:01:17.000 I just got out.

00:01:18.000 I do it after every workout.

00:01:20.000 It's like religious.

00:01:21.000 I make sure I get in there right afterwards.

00:01:23.000 It's the best.

00:01:25.000 You're training hard there, fella.

00:01:27.000 Well, John Donaher teaching you finder points of triangles.

00:01:31.000 That was fun to watch.

00:01:32.000 Yeah, I mean, it's hard on, as I discussed this before, being on the road is, it's hard to find consistent training.

00:01:43.000 Consistent training is your gym, that instructor in your city.

00:01:46.000 Your drive back and forth to your house, doing two classes a day maybe if you can.

00:01:51.000 You know, like that kind of thing.

00:01:52.000 But the road is inconsistent.

00:01:54.000 So the only consistency I can really rely on is picking a particular subject and going to people that I know that know how to do it.

00:02:05.000 Mmm.

00:02:05.000 Rather than allowing them to go, hey, I got this cool thing where you go upside down and stand on your head and do a backflip and, like, buggy choke.

00:02:14.000 Don't, please, I don't, I'm 58, please don't try to tell me what a buggy choke is right now. 1.00

00:02:18.000 You can't do a buggy choke? 0.95

00:02:20.000 I might, someday, but right now I just want to Fucking get the triangles right. 0.93

00:02:24.000 Buggy joke's a good thing to learn, though. 0.52

00:02:26.000 Yeah, I want to learn it, but let me learn it when I'm going to spend three weeks on it and focused on it with somebody who understands the details, somebody who also understands the counters.

00:02:39.000 Because the counters end up being as important as understanding the actual...

00:02:44.000 Somebody caught a buggy choke recently in MMA, I think it was in Bellator, and the dude picked him up and slammed him.

00:02:49.000 And he's out. 0.99

00:02:50.000 Yeah, he got fucked up, and then he beat the shit out of him. 0.99

00:02:53.000 I was like, hmm, yeah, that makes sense. 1.00

00:02:55.000 Because it's like, you really are committed to that.

00:02:57.000 You've attached yourself to the person, and that they're big and strong and can drop you on some...

00:03:02.000 A surface.

00:03:02.000 You just don't have options like you do with a triangle.

00:03:05.000 You know, like if someone picks you up with a triangle, you drop down to the leg, you let go.

00:03:10.000 Like when you're in a buggy chair, you're kind of committed, I think.

00:03:13.000 Maybe I'm wrong.

00:03:14.000 Maybe I should talk to like the Rotolo.

00:03:16.000 Yeah, this is it right here.

00:03:17.000 No, this is not it.

00:03:18.000 This is a different one.

00:03:20.000 But people are getting these left and right now. 0.96

00:03:23.000 You know, someone pulled one off in the UFC the other day, and people didn't even know what the fuck it was. 0.84

00:03:29.000 I had to kind of explain it.

00:03:30.000 I'm like, this is so fascinating that this is a technique that is, you know, for jujitsu, it's been around for like a year or so.

00:03:37.000 He's out cold.

00:03:39.000 For jujitsu, it's been around for years, rather.

00:03:42.000 But for MMA, it's just starting to be applied.

00:03:46.000 But the beautiful thing about, especially that high level of MMA, is that somebody's going to figure out how to counter it or prevent it, and then it's gone.

00:04:00.000 I mean, for a while, all of a sudden, people were catching the Von Flu, and then all of a sudden, people were like, no, no, we're going to counter that now.

00:04:07.000 But then every now and then...

00:04:08.000 Yeah, well, OSP's the master.

00:04:11.000 He's the best at it.

00:04:12.000 He's caught more of them than Von Flu. 0.75

00:04:14.000 Von Flu, I think, invented it.

00:04:16.000 But OSP, I think, has more than anybody.

00:04:18.000 He gets it all the time.

00:04:19.000 It's like, it's a natural instinct when someone takes you down to hang on to that guillotine.

00:04:24.000 You just want to have some sort of control over them.

00:04:25.000 And then all of a sudden, that person shifts weight. 0.97

00:04:27.000 And they're on top of you sideways, you're like, oh shit, then your arm is trapped. 0.98

00:04:31.000 Good night. 0.99

00:04:32.000 Yeah, it's a nasty joke.

00:04:33.000 There's just, jujitsu is so beautiful.

00:04:35.000 It's so cool watching you guys today, like watching Donaher.

00:04:39.000 Like, I learned something, that position of the knee to the ear.

00:04:43.000 Like, I didn't know that.

00:04:44.000 I kind of did it anyway, but like watching, like he's so good at pointing out the finer details.

00:04:53.000 Yeah.

00:04:54.000 You know, he's just such a master. 0.99

00:04:57.000 What a fucking interesting person he is. 0.98

00:04:59.000 There's no John Donahers out there. 1.00

00:05:01.000 No.

00:05:02.000 Like if you said, I want a guy who was a professor of philosophy at Columbia University, who's a genius, who fell in love with jujitsu and is dedicated to it so much so that he walks around with a rash guard every day.

00:05:14.000 Yeah.

00:05:15.000 He doesn't even have regular clothes!

00:05:17.000 I was just kidding myself.

00:05:19.000 Like, so John, are we gonna do gi or no gi?

00:05:22.000 I think he abandoned the gi a long time ago, right?

00:05:26.000 Yeah, he's like, no gi. 1.00

00:05:28.000 Yeah.

00:05:29.000 I mean, you can do...

00:05:30.000 The good thing about doing the gi is you must be defensively responsible.

00:05:35.000 Because you can't get out of stuff.

00:05:37.000 You can't just power out of things.

00:05:39.000 You know, like there's certain techniques that you just, you know, when you get trapped in them, you really have to mind your P's and Q's when you get out if you have a gi. 1.00

00:05:48.000 Yeah.

00:05:48.000 And, you know, I like training both because I like kind of training my mind to not rely on the gi.

00:05:55.000 But then when there's something like a lapel or, you know, a jacket or a gi available, then I've trained how to deal with that piece of fabric that's now a tool for you.

00:06:07.000 Well, I got very fortunate that I learned Gi from John-Jacques Machado.

00:06:11.000 And John-Jacques Machado only has one hand.

00:06:13.000 His left hand, he only has a thumb.

00:06:15.000 So John-Jacques game was always overhooks and underhooks and clinch.

00:06:20.000 And, you know, that's why he was so successful in Abu Dhabi in the early days because all of his strategy completely applied to no Gi.

00:06:30.000 You know, and so I sort of when I was training with gi with John Jacques and no gi with Eddie Bravo, I would do the same things.

00:06:37.000 I would just have to be more responsible defensively when I trained with the gi. 0.97

00:06:43.000 You just can't explode.

00:06:45.000 I got back problems.

00:06:47.000 I probably shouldn't train as much gi anyway because guys get a hold of it and then you're dealing with lower back.

00:06:53.000 Do you have back problems?

00:06:54.000 What kind of back problems do you have?

00:06:56.000 Just lower back stuff.

00:06:57.000 Trying to do all the...

00:06:59.000 Try it every...

00:07:00.000 It's just age and beat down and traveling.

00:07:05.000 You know, like on the bus.

00:07:06.000 Trying to describe...

00:07:07.000 I was just trying to describe bus life to your guys out there.

00:07:10.000 Like, you know, you're sleeping in kind of a coffin.

00:07:13.000 So it's kind of weird.

00:07:14.000 You can't really sit up because there's something above your head.

00:07:19.000 How much time do you spend on a bus?

00:07:21.000 Well, between every gig, unless there's a day off, so, you know, we're doing two on, three on, and you're sleeping on the bus.

00:07:27.000 But it's like, imagine sleeping, and then four people on each corner of your bed every 45 minutes just shaking it. 1.00

00:07:37.000 Fuck that. 1.00

00:07:38.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:07:39.000 So you're, like, you're trying to get a solid seven, eight hours sleep, but you end up having to get 11 hours of sleep because three or four of that is you waking up in the middle of the night because you hit bumps.

00:07:48.000 Yeah.

00:07:49.000 Bad roads, you know.

00:07:51.000 So what do you do?

00:07:52.000 You have the driver drive you in the middle of the night?

00:07:54.000 Yeah, so after the show, you're in the bus and you're going to the next city.

00:07:57.000 And, you know, depending on the drive.

00:07:59.000 If it's, you know, four hours, six hours, eight hours, nine hours.

00:08:04.000 Yeah, I have friends who do that.

00:08:06.000 Like, Bert Kreischer does that.

00:08:07.000 That's his thing.

00:08:07.000 He loves tours and buses.

00:08:10.000 I'm not into it.

00:08:11.000 I don't love it.

00:08:13.000 I enjoy performing the songs.

00:08:16.000 The travel part is the most difficult part.

00:08:18.000 And then, you know, so you're in air-conditioned scenarios, so you're getting a little dehydrated.

00:08:25.000 You're trying to have to hydrate a little bit more than you normally would.

00:08:28.000 And you're having to perform that night.

00:08:30.000 So training can be difficult on the road.

00:08:34.000 So try to do whatever I can to get training in.

00:08:39.000 Yeah, I admire people that just hit gyms, like random gyms to show up at places when they're on the road.

00:08:46.000 That's a bold move.

00:08:47.000 You never know who you're going to train with. 1.00

00:08:49.000 Yeah, and I'm a pussy that way, for sure. 0.98

00:08:54.000 People that I know, I have the mats, they come to me, or if I'm going to a place, it's because I know the person. 0.99

00:09:01.000 Do you weight train at all?

00:09:03.000 Not much.

00:09:04.000 I used to a little bit.

00:09:05.000 It's really good for preventing injuries.

00:09:07.000 When you're talking about your lower back situation, I'll show you some stuff, some of the equipment we have out there afterwards.

00:09:13.000 Is it like kettlebell stuff?

00:09:16.000 Kettlebell stuff's great.

00:09:17.000 But for the lower back, there's a machine called the reverse hyper that we have out there.

00:09:21.000 Okay.

00:09:21.000 That's phenomenal because it decompresses your back and it also strengthens all the muscles around it.

00:09:26.000 Alright.

00:09:27.000 It was invented by Louie Simmons, who's this genius.

00:09:30.000 That's Louie right there.

00:09:32.000 Rest in peace.

00:09:33.000 Hi, Louie.

00:09:33.000 He has left us and gone on to the next stage of existence.

00:09:37.000 But that machine he developed because Louis was like a world famous power lifter and his back got fucked and they told him to get his back fused because it was compressed and so he figured out a way to decompress the spine With active decompression.

00:09:51.000 So that thing, as it swings down, and you'll feel it, I'll show it to you afterwards when we go into the gym, that thing decompresses your spine on the downswing, and then on the upswing, it actually strengthens the muscles around the back.

00:10:04.000 Anybody that has the room for it and has some issues with their lower back, even if you don't have issues, if you don't want to ever have issues, I can't recommend that machine enough.

00:10:14.000 It's phenomenal feedback.

00:10:16.000 I will take that advice.

00:10:17.000 I just feel like when you get to our age, you must weight train.

00:10:21.000 I don't think it's an if and or but.

00:10:23.000 I think you have to do it.

00:10:25.000 Because otherwise you lose muscle density, you lose bone density, you know.

00:10:29.000 We're deteriorating, Maynard.

00:10:31.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:10:32.000 Father Time wants to fuck us over and grind us into dust. 1.00

00:10:36.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:10:37.000 And, you know, this is me making excuses, but, you know, there's a lot going on with the winery.

00:10:44.000 Oh, yeah.

00:10:45.000 So even just going to do jujitsu during harvest is, like, nearly impossible because you're doing 10-hour days, and so I just don't have the time.

00:10:52.000 And you're in the sun, so by the time your day is done, you're like, I need a beer and I need to go to sleep.

00:10:57.000 Yeah.

00:10:58.000 Do you take electrolytes?

00:11:01.000 What do you take?

00:11:02.000 I don't know.

00:11:03.000 Henry Aikens turned me on to this little packet of stuff that's pretty good.

00:11:07.000 Do you know the company that makes it?

00:11:09.000 No.

00:11:10.000 There's a bunch of good ones.

00:11:12.000 That's like when we have a couple extra interns that are starting with us in the cellar, because it's Arizona.

00:11:18.000 It might be 90 degrees, but it's 110 on the concrete.

00:11:22.000 Just all that radiant heat off the concrete.

00:11:25.000 So I make everybody have an electrolyte drink just before we even start.

00:11:30.000 Here, drink this.

00:11:31.000 Now we're going to take every 15 minutes, stop, drink water, just because it's not easy working in the sun like that.

00:11:40.000 I think you live a fascinating life.

00:11:42.000 I think the combination of the things that you do is so unique.

00:11:47.000 You know, the fact that you run this winery and you're very serious about it, you make this amazing wine, and yet also you're making this fucking killer music, and you're doing the two of them together.

00:11:58.000 I also make great pasta. 0.95

00:12:00.000 Yeah, you do make great pasta.

00:12:02.000 You make great pizza too, man.

00:12:04.000 That pizza place.

00:12:05.000 Steve makes the pizza, but yeah.

00:12:07.000 Well, your restaurant, your Osteria.

00:12:11.000 That's how you say it, right?

00:12:12.000 Osteria, yes.

00:12:12.000 That place is awesome.

00:12:14.000 Yeah, it's good.

00:12:15.000 Scottsdale.

00:12:16.000 Yeah.

00:12:19.000 So I'm on here to talk about stuff.

00:12:21.000 What do you really want to talk about?

00:12:22.000 Because I'm doing stuff.

00:12:23.000 What are you doing?

00:12:24.000 Full disclosure, I'm here because I'm pimping stuff that I'm selling.

00:12:28.000 You're pimping?

00:12:28.000 Yeah, I'm pimping.

00:12:29.000 What are you pimping?

00:12:30.000 Pimping my wares. 1.00

00:12:32.000 You look like a pimp. 0.99

00:12:33.000 Look at that jacket. 1.00

00:12:34.000 It's very pimply.

00:12:36.000 Forget about it.

00:12:37.000 I love that jacket. 0.73

00:12:38.000 When the whole lockdown shit happened and we couldn't tour, it sucked because I just released the Tool album and then on the heels of that I released the poster for Existential Reckoning and we couldn't tour Existential Reckoning. 0.84

00:12:56.000 So what we did, we figured out, okay, screw it, everybody's doing these streaming events, pay-per-views. 0.93

00:13:03.000 Right.

00:13:04.000 So we did one for the release of the album.

00:13:06.000 And for Puccifer, it just made sense.

00:13:09.000 That was the thing that for what we do with our characters and some of our sense of humor...

00:13:14.000 And the nature of some of the kind of interesting, heady landscapes that we kind of paint with some of the songs.

00:13:23.000 It's a really interesting format for us, and everybody in the band went, this is a great, this is a good thing for us.

00:13:29.000 So we did another one.

00:13:30.000 We did Billy Dee and the Hall of Feathered Servants, which was all of the Money Shot album and all the luchador stuff that we shot at the Mayan Theater.

00:13:39.000 We released that one.

00:13:41.000 So we went ahead and did this still during lockdown before we actually got back on the road.

00:13:45.000 We did Conditions of My Parole, the whole album, called Parole Violator.

00:13:50.000 So it's a bunch of stuff that's got Billy Dee and Major Douche and a bunch of the characters, Hildy and everything, along with everything from Conditions of My Parole.

00:13:58.000 And we did a bunch of the V is for Vagina era songs, reworked them completely and shot that all in the Sunset Sound studio in Hollywood.

00:14:09.000 There's some bits in that one as well.

00:14:12.000 But those are two pay-per-views that are coming out this coming weekend, Halloween weekend.

00:14:17.000 And do you do these pay-per-views off your website?

00:14:20.000 Well, yeah, Pusser4TV.com is where they're going to live for now as a temporary thing.

00:14:26.000 Eventually, we'll release them on Blu-ray and through iTunes and all that stuff.

00:14:30.000 There it is right here.

00:14:31.000 Double feature.

00:14:32.000 Oh, yeah.

00:14:34.000 Nice.

00:14:35.000 Yeah, so it's just such a fun, when I figured out what it was and how we can do it, and how we were like duck to water with it, which is, all of us are really good with just the concepts, putting it all together.

00:14:50.000 Matt Mitchell's an incredible, not only just a producer for the record and an engineer, but also his approach to figuring out how to put all these things together.

00:15:00.000 And our team, his girlfriend Elisa, You're living a fun life, dude.

00:15:05.000 Oh yeah.

00:15:06.000 I like what you're doing.

00:15:10.000 Yeah, so it's just...

00:15:11.000 I don't know, we just kind of went...

00:15:13.000 It resonates with us, this approach of doing this thing.

00:15:17.000 Like, the idea of doing a series, a poster for a series, that doesn't really...

00:15:22.000 I think full concert with all the cool stuff in it.

00:15:25.000 Are you bandied about doing a series?

00:15:27.000 Have you thought about it?

00:15:28.000 Yeah, but I think, you know, a friend with Mark Brooks, who used to be a part of Metalocalypse, and conversations I'd had with him, and various other people that have been involved in those things, they're like...

00:15:39.000 As soon as you go down that path with somebody like Adult Swim or Comedy Central or whatever things, they just own that thing now.

00:15:45.000 So imagine me getting in the wrong contract and now all these characters that I've developed, I can't even take these on the road now because some other douchebag owns them.

00:15:53.000 Oh, you can't do that.

00:15:54.000 No, no, no.

00:15:54.000 We're not doing that.

00:15:55.000 No, no, no, no.

00:15:56.000 What about doing it independently?

00:15:57.000 What about doing a series, you know, doing it yourself?

00:16:01.000 Well, I think my attention span, I think being the full hour and change thing, that makes sense.

00:16:10.000 Doing the small episodes and having to build in all those stories for an entire season and have somebody expect following through with the next season.

00:16:19.000 I don't think I could do that.

00:16:21.000 You have to kind of manage, you have so many interests, you kind of have to manage your time wisely, don't you?

00:16:28.000 Because the vineyard, the winery requires so much focus and so much attention, as does the creation of the music.

00:16:36.000 And I couldn't do, with the winery, the success of the winery, I couldn't do it without people like my wife and Tim White and Calvin and The various people that are involved, Aaron Weiss, in kind of handling their jobs, the delegation of what you guys do.

00:16:53.000 I have to be there to make the decisions when it comes to the winemaking.

00:16:57.000 I'm on the forklift.

00:16:58.000 I'm the one, you know, there.

00:17:00.000 Deciding what's going to go in what tank, because everything ends up making, changes the outcome of what's happening.

00:17:07.000 And that's just the approaches of when we're picking the grapes, what grapes are we planting?

00:17:11.000 All those things come back to me, but the follow-through, if I didn't have...

00:17:17.000 Jen and Tim and Calvin and Aaron and all my vineyard managers, Chris and Jesse, if I didn't have those people in place, I couldn't do it at all, at all.

00:17:27.000 So it's not just a matter of me organizing my time.

00:17:32.000 It's also about me delegating to people that I can trust to make the decision beyond the initial framework that I've set in place.

00:17:41.000 Now, when you make wine and you grow these grapes, the grapes vary seasonally.

00:17:49.000 Does the flavor vary depending upon the weather conditions and what you do and don't do to the soil?

00:17:57.000 Does that mature or change over time?

00:18:00.000 Generally speaking, you're trying to pick a location that the soil itself is going to express something in this way forever.

00:18:10.000 That's going to be what that site does.

00:18:13.000 What's the variables when it comes to the soil?

00:18:16.000 Well, this is a word called terroir.

00:18:18.000 Terroir?

00:18:19.000 Yeah, and it's everything.

00:18:20.000 Every completely untrackable thing that you could think of in terms of the levels of moisture, when that moisture hits that soil, how deep does that moisture go in, the content, the geology of the soil, the weather patterns in that area and how they shift year to year.

00:18:39.000 What actual clone did you plant in that spot and how that clone is going to react differently to all of those infinite variables of just the soil, never mind the infinite variables of the weather.

00:18:50.000 And then when you choose to pick how you choose to prune, how many clusters you decide to set on that particular vine, how you decide to train that vine, is it going to be a unilateral, is it going to be bilateral, is it going to be just a Bush pruned, all these different variables about how you're going to do that farming,

00:19:09.000 that affects the outcome.

00:19:11.000 In general though, if there's a particular region that does well with a particular grape, like Oregon with Pinot Noir, there might be various ways that they're pruning and adjusting how they're training and growing that fruit.

00:19:28.000 But generally speaking, it's going to be Pinot from Oregon.

00:19:32.000 It's going to have a particular profile across that state.

00:19:37.000 Variations from region to region, from site to site, from producer to producer.

00:19:41.000 But in general, it should have a signature that suggests Oregon Pinot.

00:19:50.000 Allegedly.

00:19:52.000 Do you follow like other types of, do you follow like cigar growing or coffee growing or all these other different things that vary so much on the soil and things along those lines?

00:20:06.000 Coffee a little bit.

00:20:07.000 We just picked up a, well it's not here yet.

00:20:09.000 Do you want some?

00:20:11.000 No, I'm good.

00:20:11.000 I'm good.

00:20:12.000 This is good stuff.

00:20:14.000 I've had two today, so I'm going to yammer a little bit.

00:20:17.000 I like yammering.

00:20:18.000 Hey, yammer. 1.00

00:20:18.000 That's what we do. 1.00

00:20:19.000 I just picked up, it's not here yet, we picked up a nice modern roaster.

00:20:25.000 Because once I move the Osteria that's in Cottonwood up to the new Hill Project, that building in Cottonwood will become a coffee roaster and breakfast brunch place.

00:20:38.000 So we're actually pursuing relationships with beans and importers of coffee beans.

00:20:46.000 So when you do that, like, I'm good friends with Evan Hafer from Black Rival Coffee, and he'll travel all over the world and try out different beans and try out different things, and that's what this stuff is right here.

00:20:57.000 I've gotten really into it.

00:20:59.000 Oh, this is Black Rival? 0.52

00:21:00.000 Well, then I gotta...

00:21:03.000 Sorry, brother.

00:21:04.000 I didn't know it was yours, brother.

00:21:05.000 I'm sorry.

00:21:06.000 Yeah, no, he's...

00:21:07.000 Cheers, sir.

00:21:07.000 Cheers.

00:21:08.000 Always good to see you. 0.98

00:21:09.000 Yeah, Evan makes some fucking phenomenal stuff. 0.98

00:21:13.000 Oh, yeah. 0.98

00:21:14.000 Yeah.

00:21:15.000 So, you know, so I have my, you know, Todd Fox is basically my go-to guy.

00:21:21.000 He actually has that eye of the tiger on those kind of things, and he'll point out things, because I'm just, dude, I'm living and I'm going, and he'll go, Check out the difference between these Colombian beans and these Brazilian beans.

00:21:37.000 And I go, okay.

00:21:38.000 He'll be the one that kind of slows me down to focus on, check it out.

00:21:42.000 You're like, you know what?

00:21:43.000 Then he'll put stuff, you know, randomly we'll have some stuff.

00:21:46.000 He goes, what do you think of that one?

00:21:47.000 And I go, I really like that.

00:21:49.000 He goes, those are the Brazilian beans.

00:21:51.000 So he's starting to help me kind of identify what it is that I like in a coffee, in an approach, because I don't Like a band, I don't have to sound like Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin.

00:22:04.000 I just have to sound like me and express the way I'm going to express.

00:22:08.000 So I don't need to be able to make every kind of coffee from every part of the world.

00:22:14.000 I just need to figure out the ones that I like because I'm kind of, in a way, I'm making it for me, but I'm also selling it.

00:22:21.000 But I'm not selling it to everybody.

00:22:23.000 I'm selling it to the people that are going to like it and they're going to come to my place because that's unique.

00:22:28.000 I had a guy on the podcast years back, Peter Giuliano, is that his name?

00:22:33.000 He's like a legitimate coffee nerd.

00:22:36.000 And he, we went down like a three-hour rabbit hole of coffee where he explained to me all the beans initially came from Ethiopia and how their flavors changed as they moved them to South America and grew them in Colombia.

00:22:48.000 That's an expression of terroir.

00:22:50.000 It's just, it changes clone to weather, to soil, to grower, to roaster.

00:22:57.000 I mean, There's so many rabbit holes you can go down with that kind of stuff.

00:23:01.000 Yeah.

00:23:01.000 Like, you know, your average large commercial facility is that have a consistent coffee that's not great.

00:23:08.000 It's usually over-roasted or they overheat it when they do the coffee because they're just trying to cover up flaws.

00:23:16.000 Right.

00:23:16.000 Well, it's just like when people talk about coffee and they talk about...

00:23:20.000 Commercial places most of the people are buying stuff.

00:23:23.000 That's just they're not really buying coffee.

00:23:24.000 They're buying sugar water, right?

00:23:26.000 That's got caffeine in it.

00:23:27.000 I was at I went to do a an article and a training session out at gun site and in Outside of pre and paulden Arizona.

00:23:37.000 It's an old-school training facility and And I went there, you know, early morning, we were going to do this whole gun range thing, and this guy named Charlie, sitting at the table, he goes, you want some coffee?

00:23:49.000 I'm like, sure.

00:23:50.000 He goes, cream and sugar?

00:23:52.000 I normally don't, but like, it sounded like that's what he, yeah, yeah, sure.

00:23:55.000 He goes, I asked if you wanted coffee, not pudding.

00:23:59.000 Who's testing you? 1.00

00:24:00.000 Fucking clotheslined me. 0.99

00:24:02.000 First, out of the box. 1.00

00:24:03.000 Fuck you. 1.00

00:24:05.000 But I fell for it. 1.00

00:24:07.000 Yeah, I only go black now.

00:24:09.000 It's been like a couple of years now.

00:24:11.000 I only drink black coffee.

00:24:12.000 I do a little bit of cream, and I've been pretty consistent with that lately because now I'm focusing on what beans I like.

00:24:21.000 And for me, I know it's going to change once I remove the cream, but that's the lens that I see the coffee through is I have to have the cream in there because that's how I'm going to drink it.

00:24:33.000 So I'm trying to figure out what ones I like and with that lens.

00:24:36.000 I know that if I remove that lens, it's probably going to change my perception of what coffees I like.

00:24:43.000 It's funny, the cream debate, whether or not you should put cream in coffee.

00:24:48.000 It's an interesting thing because...

00:24:50.000 I think there's far bigger issues in the world to discuss.

00:24:52.000 There definitely are.

00:24:53.000 There definitely are, but it's just such a funny snot thing.

00:24:55.000 Leave my cream alone, man.

00:24:57.000 Listen, I like it.

00:24:58.000 I like cream in a Kona.

00:25:00.000 A Kona coffee?

00:25:01.000 Yeah.

00:25:02.000 I like a little cream in there, but generally I just drink it black now.

00:25:05.000 Yeah, I'm planning trips to Hawaii because I want to establish some relationships with some Maui growers so that I can actually make that be part of what I'm doing in Arizona, but also because I get to go train with Luis.

00:25:21.000 Oh, okay, yeah.

00:25:21.000 Maui Jiu Jitsu.

00:25:22.000 Luis was my first instructor ever.

00:25:24.000 He taught me my first private lesson.

00:25:26.000 Really?

00:25:26.000 Yeah.

00:25:27.000 He had Hickson's.

00:25:28.000 Okay.

00:25:28.000 On Pico.

00:25:29.000 Yeah, in 1996. Yep.

00:25:32.000 I must have just missed you. 0.71

00:25:34.000 Yeah, well I only went there a couple times and then I found Carlson Gracie's and I was so dumb I didn't know.

00:25:39.000 I'm like, oh this is a different place but it's the same name.

00:25:42.000 It must be the same thing.

00:25:43.000 And I caught Carlson Gracie's right when Vitor, when they were still calling him Victor.

00:25:48.000 Right.

00:25:49.000 And he had just competed against John Hess in Hawaii.

00:25:54.000 That was his debut when he was like 19 years old.

00:25:57.000 And then he was about to make his UFC debut.

00:26:00.000 I remember sitting behind Vitor, one row behind him, when Silva broke his leg.

00:26:11.000 Oh, wow. 0.99

00:26:13.000 But here's Vitor's head, and I'm having to figure out how to see around this fucking brick. 0.99

00:26:21.000 His head is huge. 0.99

00:26:24.000 When he got up to 240 pounds when he fought Randy Couture, it was preposterous.

00:26:30.000 He was an enormous man.

00:26:32.000 Yes.

00:26:33.000 But those days, like those early days of the UFC were so interesting because, like, there's nothing like MMA in that regard or jiu-jitsu where you can go back just 25 years and you go and look at the difference between the art form then and what it is now.

00:26:50.000 It's just evolved in leaps and bounds.

00:26:52.000 It's evolved, but there's also...

00:26:56.000 Yeah, we could go on for hours about it, but when I first started at Pico, you could tell that there was a club within the club, and I was never going to have access to that information.

00:27:10.000 Oh, back then it was, yeah.

00:27:12.000 Back then it was really weird.

00:27:13.000 And you're not allowed to go to somebody else's gym.

00:27:15.000 So I'm traveling and I'm like, I couldn't train with anybody.

00:27:20.000 I had to wait till I got back to L.A. to pick it up.

00:27:24.000 Unless I brought somebody with me on the road to train some techniques, I had no idea what the hell we were doing, right?

00:27:30.000 Yeah, I was very fortunate that Jean-Jacques did not have that attitude.

00:27:34.000 Jean-Jacques was just, go train, my friend.

00:27:36.000 Train.

00:27:37.000 Train everywhere you can.

00:27:38.000 Yeah.

00:27:38.000 And he was such a great guy and he had such a loyal student base that he had zero concerns about people leaving him.

00:27:46.000 You know, his concern was just that you trained.

00:27:48.000 Right.

00:27:49.000 Which is very fortunate.

00:27:50.000 I didn't have that because it was just such a weird at that moment.

00:27:55.000 What was a famine mentality in the early days?

00:27:58.000 Well, there was also lawsuits going on because the Gracies were suing other people for using the Gracie name.

00:28:08.000 Like, Orion, didn't he sue Carlson?

00:28:12.000 I'm sure.

00:28:13.000 He sued someone for using the term Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, even though Carlson's last name was Gracie.

00:28:20.000 I don't know if it was Carlson.

00:28:21.000 I don't want to...

00:28:22.000 Misrepresented.

00:28:22.000 But I know that there was some lawsuits involved because Gracie Jiu Jitsu itself became like a different thing.

00:28:29.000 They were calling that a different thing than just straight Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

00:28:32.000 Right.

00:28:33.000 And now I think it's the opposite.

00:28:35.000 I'm not sure where it is now, but whatever.

00:28:38.000 I give up.

00:28:39.000 Well, I mean, that's where it becomes fascinating where a guy like John Donaher kind of like leaps to the top of this thing with just this analytical perspective that's completely free of dogma.

00:28:51.000 All he cares about is what is the correct way to do things.

00:28:54.000 What's the most effective in tried and true competition format. 0.98

00:28:59.000 Like, this is what we've learned without any bullshit. 0.98

00:29:04.000 Yeah.

00:29:05.000 And, you know, that's been great for me to be on the road training with somebody like John, like my friends at Easton and Denver and, you know, Dave and Dan Camarillo.

00:29:17.000 They all have a slightly different approach to the things.

00:29:20.000 Some of the guys are going to be a little more self-defense oriented, so they're going to be looking to check your position and make sure you can't get hit in the face.

00:29:29.000 Right.

00:29:30.000 But I'm a grown-ass man, and so you go, okay, I am playing jiu-jitsu.

00:29:34.000 I'm not worried about getting it in the face.

00:29:36.000 I'm going to train this position to understand how to move my body.

00:29:39.000 Because that's what it is about.

00:29:42.000 At the end of the day, it is about me taking you offline and advancing.

00:29:47.000 But really it's about you and your self-discovery and your ability for self-control.

00:29:53.000 Me being able to control my body to do a thing.

00:29:57.000 And if you don't have that self-awareness of understanding that this isn't just you flopping around like a fish accidentally kneeing some dude in the face while you're going for a move, you're not really progressing if you don't understand that it is about your self-control.

00:30:10.000 So Okay, yeah, that's a self-defense approach to the jiu-jitsu, but I'm also conscious enough to know, okay, I'm going to do this.

00:30:18.000 I'm going to play around with X card and see what happens because I've never done it, and I want to see what that is.

00:30:23.000 How much does training in jiu-jitsu help just your mind, the way you approach life and the way you think about things?

00:30:32.000 Well, like I've mentioned before on your show, this is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

00:30:36.000 This does not come easy for me.

00:30:38.000 I am the perfect example of...

00:30:40.000 A klutzy dude who this is not natural for me to do.

00:30:47.000 And because of that, because of that, forever it was stressful.

00:30:52.000 And so you're activating your mind in a stressful situation and you're still getting oxygen in your blood and you're moving and you're opening up things.

00:31:01.000 But at some point it became more like chess.

00:31:06.000 Instead of this, oh my God, this guy's going to tap me.

00:31:10.000 Well, of course he's going to tap you.

00:31:12.000 If you just get that in your head like, I might lose today.

00:31:16.000 I'm probably going to lose today.

00:31:18.000 Be comfortable in that moment of understanding how to be conscious and aware in that moment so that you can recognize the moment before you get to the moment now for next time.

00:31:29.000 Mm-hmm.

00:31:30.000 That was a weird shift for me, getting to a position of, like, I'm in a compromised position, but I'm going to get to a safe position within the compromised position, take a deep breath, and pay attention to what he does next, so that next time I can be ahead of what he does next.

00:31:48.000 Weird mental thing.

00:31:50.000 And then training enough that you could store all this data and have it accessible when these scenarios present themselves again.

00:31:58.000 Yeah, because again, it's about body control and understanding what your body is going to do naturally now.

00:32:02.000 The drilling, the drilling, the drilling.

00:32:04.000 I cannot stress enough the drilling in a safe environment with somebody who's not trying to tear your head off.

00:32:10.000 With a good training partner who's going to give you the resistance you need.

00:32:14.000 Mm-hmm.

00:32:15.000 To be able to rep, you know, the repetition and then replicate that movement.

00:32:21.000 Yeah, we're talking about jujitsu, but we're not.

00:32:23.000 We're talking about making pasta.

00:32:25.000 We're talking about making wine.

00:32:27.000 These are things that apply to every area of your life.

00:32:30.000 If you can find one that's more difficult for you than the other ones, you'll improve the things that come naturally to you by focusing on the thing that doesn't come naturally to you.

00:32:41.000 Yeah, it's the great quote from Miyamoto Musashi.

00:32:44.000 Once you understand the way broadly, you can see it in all things.

00:32:48.000 Yeah.

00:32:49.000 Yeah, I agree with that.

00:32:50.000 Yeah.

00:32:51.000 That's the beauty of martial arts. 1.00

00:32:54.000 And that's the thing that's missed by people that don't practice it, that think of it as like some sort of brutal endeavor for, you know, macho brutes, assholes. 0.99

00:33:05.000 Yeah, I mean, but, you know, we know those guys. 0.99

00:33:08.000 They exist.

00:33:09.000 Yeah, they exist.

00:33:09.000 But they need to exercise, too.

00:33:11.000 Yeah.

00:33:12.000 Yeah, they do.

00:33:13.000 But, you know, I think...

00:33:18.000 Finding that thing that's actually challenging you physically, mentally, spiritually helps with other things that come along.

00:33:27.000 The world's weird right now.

00:33:30.000 I don't know.

00:33:31.000 I feel like we're helping train people to understand that the world goes through a lot of changes.

00:33:38.000 There's going to be a lot of stress.

00:33:40.000 Nobody's going to And 90% of the people of the world are not going to agree with you.

00:33:45.000 And if you can get through that mentally and emotionally and spiritually to know that there's something on the other side.

00:33:53.000 Yeah.

00:33:53.000 I think things like jujitsu, things like growing food...

00:33:58.000 Resigning yourself to nature and having to navigate farming those kind of things they start to reset you in a way where like it's not this not everything has to be an argument mm-hmm sometimes it's you just having to navigate the fucking weather yeah if you can get to that mindset you get a lot more done honestly and you'll survive shit that some people won't because they're so focused on the petty dumb shit that they're gonna miss the bigger picture I think a lot of the petty stuff is people also want you to agree with 0.68

00:34:28.000 them.

00:34:29.000 That's not really necessary.

00:34:32.000 You know, so many people, they have an opinion and they feel like if they can't convince you that they're correct or they can't force their opinion on you, that somehow or another it invalidates their own perspective.

00:34:44.000 Yeah.

00:34:45.000 I find that, you know, going back, again, we can go right back to jujitsu.

00:34:48.000 We know guys that are like, no, this is the only way to do this move.

00:34:51.000 Right, right, right.

00:34:52.000 Yeah. 0.83

00:34:53.000 Well, I just watched this guy beat the shit out of everyone at ADCC, and he's not doing the things that you're telling me that you're supposed to only do. 0.93

00:35:05.000 Mm-hmm. 0.96

00:35:06.000 You know?

00:35:06.000 And then, like, this is the only way that, well, using Hickson as an example.

00:35:10.000 Hickson says, only do this, this, this, and this.

00:35:12.000 You never do these other things.

00:35:13.000 It's like, Have you not watched his ValiTudo videos?

00:35:18.000 He did everything the opposite of what you just said.

00:35:21.000 He had his nose before his toes.

00:35:23.000 He had all these things that you're not supposed to do.

00:35:28.000 Those things are not necessarily 100%.

00:35:31.000 You have to be open-minded.

00:35:34.000 You have to disagree with it being one way.

00:35:39.000 Yeah.

00:35:40.000 I mean, it really is an art.

00:35:41.000 And then be open to hearing the way that you didn't think it was.

00:35:45.000 And then there's all these variables, like the size of your frame, the way your body moves, whether or not you're flexible.

00:35:52.000 There's so many variables that will present themselves in this sort of equation of how do you express yourself on the mat.

00:35:59.000 Mm-hmm.

00:36:00.000 Now, the one thing that...

00:36:02.000 I was talking to Donald, the guy you just met today.

00:36:06.000 You know, you were trying to convince a couple of friends to take a class.

00:36:10.000 You know, they're not very athletic, but they're, you know, musician friends.

00:36:13.000 Like, yeah, just come in and take the white belt class. 0.98

00:36:15.000 You're in a safe environment.

00:36:18.000 And getting them to understand, like, when you walk in the room and you see a dude shaped like you, that might not be the biggest sniper in the room.

00:36:27.000 It might be that geeky kid in the corner who looks like he probably works in a library.

00:36:32.000 Yeah, oftentimes it is. 0.99

00:36:33.000 And he's the one who's gonna fuck you up. 0.99

00:36:36.000 He looks like he's, like, you know, the nerd in the corner with the glasses and the goofy hair. 1.00

00:36:39.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:36:40.000 He's the guy who's gonna fuck you up. 1.00

00:36:42.000 The nerd assassins. 1.00

00:36:43.000 Yeah.

00:36:43.000 Well, because they're analytical.

00:36:45.000 You know, when jiu-jitsu favors the analytical approach, you analyze positions and analyze possible counters and traps you can set.

00:36:55.000 That's why I love guys like Mikey Musumechi.

00:36:57.000 You know who he is?

00:36:59.000 He is a fascinating fellow.

00:37:02.000 I had him on the podcast.

00:37:04.000 He's like the smiliest assassin, thick glasses, only eats pizza and pasta.

00:37:10.000 And he only eats once a day. 1.00

00:37:12.000 Trains, no bullshit, 12 hours a day. 0.98

00:37:15.000 Just constantly drilling and going over positions. 0.99

00:37:18.000 Big-ass smile on his face.

00:37:20.000 He's multiple-time world champion.

00:37:22.000 Okay. 1.00

00:37:22.000 And he's just fucking assassinating people. 1.00

00:37:24.000 We have a new guy at our gym, Brown Belt, out of Easton. 0.99

00:37:28.000 And he's kind of a geeky dude, tall, with glasses.

00:37:32.000 His name's Clay Wimmer.

00:37:33.000 He's from a mall's gym in Colorado?

00:37:35.000 Yeah, he's out of Centennial.

00:37:36.000 I think he got his brown belt from Velour.

00:37:40.000 And when he's rolling, he's got this creepy grin on his face like, you're creeping me out, dude.

00:37:50.000 Stop grinning. 1.00

00:37:51.000 And he's like, he's one of those backpack fuckers. 1.00

00:37:53.000 He gets red on your back and you're like, you're screwed. 1.00

00:37:55.000 And he got there. 0.98

00:37:56.000 You don't know how he got there, but he got there.

00:37:58.000 And he's grinning the whole time, like sometimes chewing gum.

00:38:01.000 You're like, you're chewing gum and you're grinning.

00:38:05.000 You're creeping me out, man.

00:38:06.000 That's Mikey.

00:38:08.000 Pull up Mikey Musumechi takes Iminari's back.

00:38:12.000 There's a video of him.

00:38:14.000 Watch this.

00:38:15.000 He already took the back.

00:38:16.000 Watch how he takes it back.

00:38:18.000 Go back a little bit of ways, and you see the position.

00:38:21.000 So they're in a scramble, and Iminari, who's like the master leg locker, watch how Mikey takes his back. 0.95

00:38:28.000 This is so fucking beautiful. 0.93

00:38:30.000 He takes him out. 0.98

00:38:30.000 This is Mikey on top here. 0.98

00:38:32.000 And this is, again, this is against Iminari.

00:38:34.000 Look at this back take.

00:38:34.000 Look at that.

00:38:35.000 He got that neck grab.

00:38:38.000 Do you see how sweet that was?

00:38:39.000 Yeah.

00:38:39.000 Look how sweet.

00:38:40.000 Back up a little bit.

00:38:41.000 Look how sweet that was.

00:38:42.000 So he's in the...

00:38:43.000 Look at that, man. 0.99

00:38:45.000 Fucking so slick. 0.99

00:38:47.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:38:48.000 And again, that's him doing it to Iminari, who's just a fucking legend. 0.98

00:38:53.000 And he traps the arm. 0.98

00:38:55.000 I mean, just incredible stuff.

00:38:57.000 Super, super high level.

00:38:59.000 That's Mikey.

00:39:01.000 And I think he's 24. You got it.

00:39:05.000 Look at him.

00:39:07.000 That's Mikey.

00:39:08.000 I love that guy.

00:39:10.000 He's amazing.

00:39:11.000 And it's to me that he's my favorite example when I show people.

00:39:16.000 $15,000 bonus for that incredible performance.

00:39:21.000 Yeah.

00:39:22.000 Wow.

00:39:24.000 He's just such a sweet guy, too.

00:39:26.000 And so talented.

00:39:28.000 That's what I love about Jiu-Jitsu.

00:39:30.000 That's a world champion.

00:39:32.000 Right.

00:39:34.000 It's an art form.

00:39:36.000 He might as well be playing the violin.

00:39:38.000 He might as well be making paintings or something.

00:39:42.000 That's what he's doing.

00:39:44.000 Yeah, it's a beautiful—like I said, it's one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. 0.99

00:39:49.000 It's fucking hard as shit. 0.96

00:39:52.000 There's a bond that you have. 0.99

00:39:54.000 I hung out with Guy Ritchie this past weekend in London, and we had the same sort of conversation.

00:40:01.000 He did my podcast a few years back, and he said, I wanted to do your podcast because I knew you were a jiu-jitsu guy.

00:40:06.000 He's like, I knew we would have, like, very common perspectives on things.

00:40:11.000 Like, there's a thing.

00:40:12.000 If you've done it, and you've gotten to, like, he's a black belt under Henzo.

00:40:15.000 Guy's, he's really legit.

00:40:17.000 You know, and you would never know.

00:40:19.000 Like, he's a super unassuming guy, but then you start talking to him about details and stuff. 0.97

00:40:23.000 Like, oh, you're fucking legit. 0.84

00:40:24.000 He's for real. 0.96

00:40:26.000 I love those guys.

00:40:27.000 Yeah.

00:40:28.000 You know, the guys that... 0.83

00:40:30.000 Doesn't really happen anymore, but the kind of guy that you wish you were at the end of the bar in some scenario where two dudes or one guy is just fucking with the nerd at the bar. 0.79

00:40:40.000 Before cameras.

00:40:42.000 Before these.

00:40:43.000 So he could actually get away with it.

00:40:45.000 In a bar.

00:40:47.000 And I just go, oh, this is going to be great.

00:40:49.000 Did you see the video of Henzo Gracie taking some guy down on the subway?

00:40:54.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:40:54.000 Some asshole just get really shitty. 1.00

00:40:57.000 And he's just like, my friend, you've made a big mistake! 1.00

00:41:03.000 Yeah.

00:41:04.000 Yeah, don't do that anymore.

00:41:06.000 It's a way of life, though.

00:41:08.000 It really is.

00:41:09.000 It's a way of making this thing so difficult that the rest of life seems maybe not less complicated, but more understandable.

00:41:20.000 Mm-hmm.

00:41:22.000 Okay.

00:41:23.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:41:23.000 Yeah.

00:41:25.000 Through that struggle of that thing, you can kind of apply those lessons to other stuff.

00:41:31.000 Yeah.

00:41:33.000 Yeah, I agree.

00:41:34.000 I think it's...

00:41:35.000 I've, over the years, I've applied it to, of course, writing and putting music together.

00:41:41.000 That's definitely that struggle of, like, you hit a wall...

00:41:48.000 You have to navigate, you know, through, around, or over.

00:41:52.000 When you write, do you write on your own?

00:41:56.000 Do you write with other people?

00:41:57.000 Like, how do you create music?

00:41:59.000 Do you create music alone?

00:42:01.000 It's like, for me, it's, okay, I'm gonna train jujitsu.

00:42:06.000 Okay, we're gonna bring it back to that, because that's our base here.

00:42:13.000 If I'm going to train with somebody, every body type is going to be a different thing.

00:42:20.000 And I can't just...

00:42:21.000 You know how it is. 1.00

00:42:22.000 If you're just going to force your will on some other dude, then it's just two idiots trying to force their will on each other and you're going to gas out. 1.00

00:42:30.000 You have to see what this thing is and this person, how they're approaching you. 0.99

00:42:35.000 Are they approaching you standing?

00:42:36.000 Are they butt scooting? 0.79

00:42:38.000 Are they going to...

00:42:40.000 Whatever they're gonna do, each song and every riff or whatever is a reaction to what I'm seeing or hearing, right?

00:42:49.000 So I'm not just gonna come in with a lyric and come up with a line on top of some kind of rhythm or melody.

00:42:54.000 I have to pay attention to what's in front of me and work around that thing and listen to it and pay attention to it and drill.

00:43:04.000 So how does this process start?

00:43:06.000 Like, say you have a blank slate.

00:43:09.000 Blank slate.

00:43:10.000 So for me, there's not really a blank slate.

00:43:11.000 It's me going to, maybe it's me going to Matt and going, okay, just in general, I'd like to see what we can do with, there's some sounds that I heard on this, you know, Maybe it was a movie soundtrack.

00:43:27.000 Maybe it was a record.

00:43:29.000 You know, maybe I'm picking out, like, mandolin or, you know, some kind of a particular pedal from a guitar or a film that has, like, a Rykoot or a riff going through it or something, a vibe.

00:43:41.000 And maybe Matt has picked up, in the case of Existential Reckoning, he picked up a bunch of amazing old synths, like Fairlight and Sinclair and all this kind of cool shit that's, in a way, it's...

00:43:53.000 What are you saying?

00:43:53.000 Synths?

00:43:54.000 Synthesizers.

00:43:55.000 Synthesizers.

00:43:55.000 Yeah, so old school, like, you know, Kraftwerk, you know, Yes, old, like, you know, Michael Jackson's, like...

00:44:02.000 Like, that familiar sound that's from a very specific...

00:44:09.000 And you can manipulate those sounds to a point, but you're kind of boxed in on what those things can do in some cases.

00:44:18.000 Like the Fairlight, it's going to give you a very specific sound.

00:44:23.000 Now there's the framework, and he'll come up with a melody or a thing, and he'll throw it to me, and I'll just drill, drill, drill that thing into my head, driving around with it in my car, truck.

00:44:36.000 You know, putting headphones on on the plane and just listen in the cellar.

00:44:40.000 I'll put it on while I'm working on stuff just to just to put that thing on loop and drill it into my head of what it is so that I can figure out how to go through around or over this thing, work with it, work against it intentionally.

00:44:57.000 So it's it's a it's a mathematical three dimensional geometric puzzle.

00:45:03.000 So when you're listening to it and you're just like going over in your head, you're just like allowing it to talk to you?

00:45:09.000 Correct.

00:45:10.000 You know, just like we were going over today with Danaher.

00:45:13.000 Like, okay, we're in this position, but did the guy retract his elbow or did he leave his elbow forward?

00:45:18.000 Is the riff giving me an elbow?

00:45:21.000 Or is the riff cutting me off on a particular rhythm or a melody?

00:45:25.000 Because, you know, you might have a melody in mind, but you get closer to the end of that riff and it might have changed directions, then your note is sour.

00:45:33.000 So you have to pay attention to what note goes with that thing, and rhythmically as well as sonically, like, you know, melodically.

00:45:42.000 So it's you getting used to this thing, and he might be able to move it.

00:45:46.000 I might go, hey man, can we adjust a few things in here and move forward?

00:45:50.000 So it is definitely a step-by-step piece.

00:45:54.000 I will respond.

00:45:56.000 Then he will give me back a thing that he's developed further.

00:46:00.000 And I'll respond to his response.

00:46:03.000 And then at some point, I'll go to Karina and go, hey, I'd like to hear, before I go too far, I want to hear what you would do over what I've done, over what he's done.

00:46:14.000 And now it's a triad of us navigating that sonic landscape.

00:46:21.000 So it must be an interesting dance in that you have to do it with people that have sort of the same engagement that you do, the same level of discipline, the same...

00:46:32.000 Same level of discipline, but strengths where I don't have strengths, I have strengths where they don't have strengths.

00:46:38.000 So you're kind of filling in each other's gaps with a common goal.

00:46:46.000 So yeah, we definitely have common things that we like, but we also bring different strengths to the table to make it work as a whole.

00:46:54.000 That's one of the more challenging things I would imagine about a band, is that you kind of have to get everybody on the same sort of...

00:47:04.000 You have to remain open.

00:47:05.000 Your listening skills should be as important and as honed as your regurgitating skills.

00:47:13.000 I'm successful and this is what I do. 1.00

00:47:15.000 Fuck you. 1.00

00:47:17.000 No. 1.00

00:47:18.000 Then it just starts sounding the same.

00:47:20.000 You're not really progressing as an artist to reinvent yourself and see things from a different perspective.

00:47:28.000 My opinion.

00:47:29.000 Do you see this process more clearly now than you did years ago?

00:47:39.000 Is this something that you get better at?

00:47:41.000 Oh yeah, like anything.

00:47:44.000 I think you just get better at listening the more you listen.

00:47:49.000 It's like anything.

00:47:54.000 An action, reaction, and then is there some kind of reinforcement of that behavior?

00:47:59.000 Right?

00:48:00.000 I found that when I started listening more and reacting more as a listener, the reinforcement of that behavior was that there was a better thing that came out the other end rather than just sounding like something I'd already done before, jammed over something that somebody else has already done before.

00:48:18.000 So you reinvent.

00:48:20.000 And then the behavior is reinforced because the thing, not from somebody externally, but from the thing that you're hearing, you go, I've never heard me do that before.

00:48:32.000 Great.

00:48:34.000 Keep honing that knife.

00:48:36.000 How long can you do that for?

00:48:39.000 Ever?

00:48:40.000 Forever.

00:48:41.000 Yeah, just listen forever.

00:48:42.000 Because you're going to be hearing it at a different age.

00:48:46.000 You're going to be hearing it differently than you would 10 years ago or 20 years ago.

00:48:49.000 Right.

00:48:50.000 Because you have different life experiences.

00:48:52.000 As long as it's engaging and as long as it's fascinating, you keep doing it.

00:48:55.000 Right.

00:48:56.000 I will definitely, you know, probably already, you know, I have my head up my own ass, but, you know, I won't be relevant to the TikTokers of the world because it's just not on their radar. 1.00

00:49:09.000 It's not those people that listen to the things they listen to and the people that respond to the things they respond to now.

00:49:16.000 I'm not necessarily relevant.

00:49:18.000 But there's an entire generation of people that's not just my generation.

00:49:24.000 There's people older than me and much younger than me that have grown with this thing.

00:49:32.000 And so as they're aging, they're discovering it.

00:49:38.000 Right.

00:49:38.000 Right?

00:49:39.000 Do you think about that, though?

00:49:41.000 Do you think about whether or not you're relevant or whether or not...

00:49:44.000 You can't. 1.00

00:49:45.000 Because you'll start being desperate and getting plastic surgery and looking like a fucking alien and trying to insert yourself into some stupid fucking thing. 1.00

00:49:54.000 I'm not talking about anybody. 1.00

00:49:55.000 Yeah.

00:49:56.000 No, you can't.

00:49:56.000 I'm not talking about my peers.

00:49:59.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

00:49:59.000 If you're alive, you have to assume other people are going to... 1.00

00:50:02.000 If you're on a vibe, there's other people that are going to be on that vibe.

00:50:06.000 There's so many people.

00:50:07.000 Yeah.

00:50:08.000 The quest for relevancy is like, oh boy.

00:50:11.000 It turns to desperation very quickly.

00:50:15.000 Yeah.

00:50:15.000 It reeks.

00:50:16.000 So just maintain your art, dude.

00:50:18.000 And then, I don't know, we're having fun creating.

00:50:23.000 Well, you guys are also so diverse.

00:50:24.000 Like, your sounds are so diverse.

00:50:26.000 And I think that's one of the strengths of you, is that with Tool and Pussifer and, like, you know, Perfect Circle, you've done so much different stuff.

00:50:36.000 It's like...

00:50:37.000 That's the listening part.

00:50:38.000 What does Billy do?

00:50:40.000 What do Adam, Justin, and Danny do?

00:50:42.000 What does Matt and Karina do?

00:50:43.000 I'm listening to what they're doing.

00:50:46.000 And having that conversation with them and building on those relationships.

00:50:51.000 They're different conversations.

00:50:52.000 They're different people with different life experiences.

00:50:54.000 The art and the sounds that come out of those people is going to be 100% different.

00:50:59.000 Even if I'm the common thing, if nobody knew that I was in Puccifer...

00:51:06.000 And you were just listening to it, you might pick up that it kind of sounds like the guy from Perfect Circle, but probably not.

00:51:14.000 It would be a whole different experience if you didn't know that I was involved.

00:51:18.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:51:19.000 That's why I think these kind of conversations are so interesting to other artists.

00:51:23.000 Because they get to see this sort of like, you know, you've been around long enough that you have a foundation.

00:51:31.000 You know, you're solid in your approach.

00:51:34.000 And there's a lot of people out there that are like, am I doing it right?

00:51:36.000 I mean, what am I doing?

00:51:37.000 I don't know.

00:51:38.000 Is this the right way to do it?

00:51:40.000 Should I change it?

00:51:41.000 What should I do?

00:51:42.000 I have that.

00:51:45.000 I'm fairly confident in some things, but I try to change it up as much as I can.

00:51:51.000 I guess I'm going to start roasting coffee soon, so maybe that's one of those resets of I don't know what I'm doing.

00:51:59.000 Let's relearn this thing that I don't have any idea and it might suck.

00:52:03.000 Those are valuable, right?

00:52:04.000 Those new things?

00:52:05.000 I think, I think so.

00:52:07.000 I think just that, you know, it could be written off to like midlife crisis, but I think it's also just understanding that chaos and change is part of life.

00:52:19.000 And if you can kind of get yourself to recognize that things aren't, you're not going to just get to a spot and it's going to be that for the rest of your life.

00:52:30.000 It's always going to be something changing.

00:52:32.000 I think it also speaks to the complex aspect of thinking itself because like You know, what are our thoughts and creativity and how do you keep them inspired and engaged?

00:52:47.000 And I think one of the ways to do it is to become a beginner again.

00:52:50.000 Yeah.

00:52:51.000 To just try some...

00:52:53.000 I started getting back into jujitsu.

00:52:56.000 It took me forever to get back in because I was living in a remote area.

00:52:59.000 But then when I got into it, I was progressing.

00:53:02.000 And then I felt like, okay, I need to, you know...

00:53:08.000 I need to ruin my day.

00:53:09.000 So I took up Muay Thai, which is like...

00:53:12.000 Way.

00:53:13.000 Like, I'm not great at jujitsu. 1.00

00:53:16.000 Holy shit, I really suck at Muay Thai. 0.98

00:53:18.000 Well, you also did it after a hip replacement, which is pretty wild. 1.00

00:53:22.000 Yeah, well.

00:53:24.000 I'm not smart.

00:53:26.000 But you are, because it's like, why not? 0.99

00:53:29.000 Fucking, they fixed it. 0.98

00:53:31.000 Yeah, but that kind of a reset, where you're jolting your brain into understanding a whole different thing you're not familiar with, the reset is huge. 0.99

00:53:47.000 I'm a fairly successful musician.

00:53:49.000 I have a backup plan.

00:53:50.000 I have these things.

00:53:51.000 I think on some level I can do that.

00:53:54.000 Not a lot of people can think in terms of their entire career or a reset of their entire career because there might not be something for you.

00:54:01.000 You might not be able to do that.

00:54:04.000 I can kind of get away with that for now.

00:54:08.000 Well, it's also harder if you're boxed into it, like if you're a pop star, you know, you're boxed into it.

00:54:13.000 You know, you have like a very specific genre that you're successful in.

00:54:18.000 Very hard for those people to branch out.

00:54:20.000 Yeah. 0.52

00:54:22.000 You know, because I'm sure you've met people that are fucking huge in their genres, that are just pop star huge. 0.58

00:54:33.000 And I don't know. 0.62

00:54:35.000 I haven't met a lot of those people.

00:54:36.000 I have no idea if there's a core person to have a conversation with.

00:54:42.000 I have no idea.

00:54:44.000 There is with some of them.

00:54:45.000 I don't travel in those circles.

00:54:46.000 Like with Miley Cyrus, there is.

00:54:48.000 She's fascinating.

00:54:50.000 She's a unique little artist. 0.91

00:54:52.000 I've met her.

00:54:53.000 She's wild.

00:54:54.000 She's very interesting.

00:54:55.000 She's a real artist, but she's also a pop star. 0.98

00:54:58.000 I make fun of her in our new show.

00:55:00.000 Not bad.

00:55:00.000 I think she would find the joke very funny.

00:55:02.000 I'm sure she would.

00:55:03.000 She's got a good sense of humor.

00:55:04.000 She's fun. 1.00

00:55:05.000 But, you know, she's a pop star, but she's also, like, she experiments with shit. 1.00

00:55:11.000 She's trying to find whatever it is that's engaging to her. 0.99

00:55:16.000 Right.

00:55:18.000 Yeah, and I have friends that are mutual friends with her, and I think that's what I'm hearing.

00:55:27.000 Yeah.

00:55:28.000 She's digging.

00:55:30.000 I became interested in her when she did, she covered Jolene.

00:55:33.000 You know, I heard that song.

00:55:34.000 I'm like, Jesus.

00:55:35.000 Like, there's a soul to that girl's voice that belies her age and, you know, and what you would expect from her.

00:55:44.000 Right. 0.99

00:55:44.000 You know, to cover that Dolly Parton song and do it in a very unique way with a beautiful fucking sound to it. 0.99

00:55:52.000 Right. 0.99

00:55:53.000 You know?

00:55:54.000 Yeah.

00:55:55.000 But again, trapped in that machine.

00:55:57.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:55:59.000 And that was...

00:55:59.000 You know, she literally had to start swearing every other word to break out of at least part of that.

00:56:06.000 You're so trapped into Hannah Montana...

00:56:11.000 Right. 0.99

00:56:11.000 In order to get out of that, you had to start, you know, almost like go full Mike Patton and start smearing shit on everything. 0.99

00:56:17.000 Just to fucking erase it, you know, to start over. 0.98

00:56:21.000 Well, that just happens to a lot of those people. 0.98

00:56:23.000 They just get stuck in this thing that's like uber successful.

00:56:28.000 But, you know, it seems like she's figured out a way to wiggle.

00:56:32.000 She has.

00:56:32.000 And broaden out of it.

00:56:35.000 Yeah.

00:56:35.000 Wiggle out of it.

00:56:36.000 But, man, what a fucking... 1.00

00:56:38.000 What a salmon trip up the fucking waterfall that is. 0.99

00:56:42.000 Yeah, because there's so many people with their hands out, so many people that have a piece of that, so many people that don't want you to branch out because, you know, anything you do that's not that they think could ruin the gravy train that they're enjoying, 0.98

00:56:58.000 right?

00:56:58.000 So we can see how that might be.

00:57:01.000 And...

00:57:02.000 The egos involved, like of the popularity and the attention and the money, the people that you get to hang out with.

00:57:12.000 Yeah.

00:57:12.000 I'm just not, I'm not in that circle.

00:57:15.000 So I don't know, I don't know, I'm not wired for it.

00:57:19.000 I'm not, I'm not, that's not part of my world.

00:57:21.000 I'm not judging it at all, but that's not part of my world.

00:57:25.000 I don't know how I would react.

00:57:27.000 Yeah.

00:57:27.000 If all of a sudden, you know, if I can name five huge pop celebrities of actors and musicians, if they go, hey, we want to come to your show, like, what did I do?

00:57:41.000 What is what I'm doing of any interest to you?

00:57:48.000 I don't know what that would look like.

00:57:51.000 Or what are you seeing?

00:57:54.000 It's somebody what?

00:57:56.000 I would be very suspicious of those people coming and actually reacting to what we're doing.

00:58:01.000 But is that because you box them yourself?

00:58:05.000 Like you decide that like what they've created is all they are?

00:58:08.000 No.

00:58:08.000 No, I just would be wondering what...

00:58:11.000 Yeah, maybe.

00:58:12.000 I guess maybe I'm being judgmental.

00:58:14.000 It's easy to do, right?

00:58:16.000 Yeah, but...

00:58:16.000 Especially, it's fun to do.

00:58:18.000 But, like, because I know that I'm busy, and those people are busy.

00:58:22.000 So why would they stop what they're doing to come and do...

00:58:25.000 To pay attention to this thing? 1.00

00:58:28.000 They already have all this shit going on. 0.99

00:58:30.000 Like, why would they come to the thing? 0.99

00:58:31.000 And I'm talking about numbers.

00:58:32.000 Not just one person.

00:58:33.000 Like... 0.91

00:58:34.000 Five or six people at once decided to come, you know, like, you know, Gwyneth Paltrow and fucking Brad Pitt and somebody, somebody, somebody wants to come to your show. 0.94

00:58:41.000 I'd be like, were they promised something? 0.94

00:58:45.000 Is there something I don't know?

00:58:46.000 Like, why would you come here?

00:58:48.000 Right.

00:58:48.000 What interest would you have in this thing?

00:58:53.000 How is this even on your radar?

00:58:55.000 You know, I would be very suspicious of that.

00:58:57.000 That's funny that you'd be suspicious.

00:58:59.000 Yeah.

00:58:59.000 Do you watch Black Mirror?

00:59:02.000 I started to back when it first came out and some of those episodes are pretty fucking amazing. 0.87

00:59:09.000 Amazing. 0.73

00:59:10.000 Well there's a really wild one with Miley Cyrus and in this one she has like this evil aunt who's like controlling her career and they download, spoiler alert, they download her mind. 0.87

00:59:25.000 Into this little doll, like this robot doll that you can buy.

00:59:30.000 And it's like your little Miley Cyrus friend, but it actually is her inside this thing.

00:59:38.000 So multiple versions of her.

00:59:40.000 Yeah, but it's like, I don't want to fuck this up, because people should watch it.

00:59:45.000 It's a fun episode.

00:59:45.000 But it's her trying to escape her pop lifestyle, but she's being controlled by all these people that have a vested interest in her making extraordinary amounts of money with that genre.

00:59:57.000 And then she gets out of it eventually.

00:59:59.000 Right.

01:00:00.000 But it's pretty wild.

01:00:01.000 But it's that thing.

01:00:02.000 It speaks to that struggle.

01:00:04.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:00:04.000 It's like, you know, you assume that Justin Bieber's just that fucking guy that sings like a girl. 1.00

01:00:10.000 You know, like, he sounds, like, first heard Justin Bieber, like, what a beautiful voice that girl has. 0.99

01:00:15.000 And then, like, that's a guy.

01:00:16.000 I'm like, oh, what?

01:00:18.000 Oh, he's young.

01:00:19.000 Oh, okay.

01:00:20.000 And then, you know, he matures over time, and he becomes this different thing.

01:00:23.000 It's like, but it's still a human.

01:00:25.000 You know?

01:00:25.000 Like, if you wanted to go see a Pussifer show, I could imagine you'd be like...

01:00:30.000 What?

01:00:31.000 He would be welcome.

01:00:32.000 Sure.

01:00:33.000 Sure.

01:00:33.000 I would never say those people can't come to my...

01:00:37.000 I would be happy to entertain. 1.00

01:00:39.000 I'm an asshole, but not that kind of an asshole. 1.00

01:00:42.000 You're not a snob. 1.00

01:00:42.000 I'm not a snob, no. 1.00

01:00:44.000 You're 100% welcome to come to those things.

01:00:47.000 But, yeah, I wouldn't exclude anybody from that art.

01:00:51.000 It's art.

01:00:53.000 Something might resonate with them that would end up showing up in something that they did next, right?

01:01:01.000 Artists all feed off each other in some way.

01:01:04.000 I'm inspired by a bunch of different films, TV shows, bands, visual artists.

01:01:13.000 Those things inspire me and they get me thinking on the next thing that I'm going to do and how do I build on that and make it make sense.

01:01:21.000 Well, music is inspirational in such a weird way, too.

01:01:24.000 It's like a drug, you know?

01:01:26.000 Like Prison Sex, that song, there's something about that song that makes me want to lift.

01:01:31.000 Like when I'm lifting weights, that song is just like the guitar riff.

01:01:34.000 It just like gives you extra juice.

01:01:39.000 Okay.

01:01:39.000 You know, there's something about music that it provides, like it opens up a specific pathway in you.

01:01:48.000 It's like a drug.

01:01:49.000 It really is.

01:01:50.000 It's an amazing drug of inspiration.

01:01:52.000 And it can be a neural map in a way that opens up whatever that is you're getting.

01:02:02.000 There's a rhythm and a tone to that thing that's inspiring those myelin connections in you to do a thing.

01:02:10.000 I could see that.

01:02:11.000 Yeah.

01:02:12.000 And also it speaks to, especially like older music is like a time map.

01:02:18.000 It's like a map of the culture when that song was created, who this person is, how they fit into the culture, whether or not they're around anymore.

01:02:27.000 Like whenever I listen to Hendrix in particular, it's like a Hendrix, to me, is like a map of the 60s in a lot of ways.

01:02:34.000 It's like the rebellion from the Vietnam era.

01:02:37.000 It's a wine.

01:02:38.000 It's something that happened on that day, at that time, on that site, in that place, made that certain way.

01:02:44.000 That's a time capsule of that moment.

01:02:46.000 Yeah.

01:02:48.000 Yeah, it really is.

01:02:49.000 And unique in that way, that you could kind of listen to it, and it transports you.

01:02:55.000 It takes you there.

01:02:57.000 Like, Janis Joplin does that for me, too.

01:02:59.000 It brings me to that time, you know, just like trying to imagine the context of When it was created, who she was.

01:03:08.000 So going back to your original question of how we write, you have to be true, to me, for the way that I write, is I'm trying to be true to who I am today.

01:03:20.000 Because those are waypoints, as you pointed out.

01:03:23.000 Those are waypoints along your particular history and your experiences.

01:03:28.000 So if I can be in the present moment when I'm writing those things about what's happening, how I'm feeling...

01:03:35.000 Even though some of the experiences are lifelong experiences, how I perceive those experiences today and how I can attach those to a bed of rhythms and sounds and melodies will end up hopefully being what you're talking about.

01:03:51.000 It's a waypoint for that moment in time that now you can go back and revisit.

01:03:55.000 Yeah.

01:03:57.000 It's such a unique art form in that way.

01:04:03.000 It just encapsulates so many different things.

01:04:05.000 Lyrics and sounds and feelings and you can just turn it on any time you want.

01:04:11.000 I mean, what a weird time, too, because you just talk to your phone and tell your phone, hey, play me this.

01:04:18.000 Yeah.

01:04:20.000 So strange.

01:04:21.000 It is wild.

01:04:23.000 The access to that art is so instantaneous now.

01:04:27.000 Just so bizarre.

01:04:30.000 But like anything, it's a hammer, right?

01:04:33.000 You can use that hammer to build something.

01:04:35.000 You can use that hammer to destroy something.

01:04:37.000 This is...

01:04:38.000 This is such an awful thing and such an amazing thing, depending on how you're dealing with it.

01:04:46.000 You can use it to gain more control, more money, or you can use it to share things with people and help them find a way.

01:04:58.000 And also, like, having a level of discipline is so important when engaging with that thing.

01:05:03.000 Because that thing can, you know, we were talking about TikTok earlier today, about how the parent company of TikTok is using TikTok to specifically monitor the locations of American individuals and how fucking crazy that is.

01:05:19.000 I deleted it.

01:05:20.000 Yeah, I never had it.

01:05:22.000 Right away, I was like, what?

01:05:24.000 And then when they were talking about banning it, I started looking into it.

01:05:27.000 I was like, that's a problem.

01:05:29.000 And then we read on one day during the podcast, we read the terms of service and what it's allowed to do, which nobody reads.

01:05:40.000 Agree.

01:05:41.000 Yeah, you agree.

01:05:42.000 Everybody agrees. 0.99

01:05:43.000 But it's so fucked up that when I read it, I couldn't believe that it was real. 0.99

01:05:47.000 I had to go over it from multiple different sites. 0.99

01:05:50.000 Am I being accurate with this?

01:05:53.000 Does it really have access to your computers that aren't connected to TikTok?

01:05:57.000 If you use the same email account, if you have the same computer and a network, yes.

01:06:02.000 Yes, it does.

01:06:03.000 It has access to everything you do. 0.99

01:06:05.000 Which is fucking bananas. 0.97

01:06:07.000 So I read that over and one of my kids came home and she said that her friend was mad because her mom listened to me talk about the terms of service and made him delete TikTok from his phone. 0.98

01:06:21.000 Yeah, it's...

01:06:24.000 New world.

01:06:25.000 It's a whole new world.

01:06:26.000 But on the other side, there's so much interesting stuff that you can get off of it.

01:06:31.000 I'm so much more educated about so many different subjects because of it, because of that access to data.

01:06:38.000 Yeah, I just harvested some of the stuff from our produce from our garden.

01:06:45.000 I'm like, I have these random things.

01:06:47.000 I'm going to try to do something with these random things.

01:06:51.000 Just type in the random ingredients recipe.

01:06:55.000 Like all these things. 0.99

01:06:56.000 And there's 12 fucking recipes involving these things. 0.98

01:07:01.000 And now I can make this amazing salad with these things. 0.99

01:07:03.000 It's fucking delicious. 0.98

01:07:04.000 And my wife's going... 1.00

01:07:05.000 What the fuck is this? 0.99

01:07:07.000 So there's those benefits of like, how do I roast coffee again? 0.99

01:07:11.000 How do I make this particular sauce for a pasta?

01:07:16.000 It's all right there.

01:07:17.000 How do I fix this specific power washer that's broken?

01:07:21.000 How do I fix this power washer so I can get back to cleaning bins?

01:07:25.000 Oh, here's a whole...

01:07:26.000 Four video options of understanding how to fix that mechanical thing that you would have to take it to somebody ten years ago.

01:07:38.000 Yeah, we just don't have the user manual for how to use it correctly.

01:07:44.000 Right.

01:07:45.000 It's like everyone knows you can't drink whiskey all day long.

01:07:50.000 You'll die.

01:07:52.000 But you can have a drink or two and it can enhance conversation.

01:07:57.000 And it's a social lubricant.

01:07:58.000 You feel great.

01:07:59.000 But we know that.

01:08:00.000 Right.

01:08:00.000 Because we have a human history of use that dates back hundreds and hundreds of years of doing that.

01:08:05.000 There's no thing going, turn this fucking thing off. 0.99

01:08:08.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:08:08.000 I just got a notification from my phone the other day that said my screen time is down 77%. 0.98

01:08:15.000 Congratulations.

01:08:16.000 Yes.

01:08:17.000 Congratulations.

01:08:18.000 I did it.

01:08:19.000 Yeah.

01:08:20.000 But that's because of that, trying to make my own user manual.

01:08:25.000 I find that the reason I'm on it more than I would be is because three bands, three wineries, you know, all the businesses that I have going on, I end up being on it a lot more than I want to be just because I'm answering questions or inspiring plans or whatever.

01:08:43.000 Yeah.

01:08:43.000 I just have to be responsive.

01:08:45.000 Yeah, for me it's a quest for interesting shit to stimulate my mind. 0.87

01:08:50.000 I mean, I'm always looking for, like, what's a new place for me to go to find things? 0.96

01:08:54.000 You know, and I sometimes feel boxed in.

01:08:57.000 I'm only going to like a specific six or seven different sites to try to get information.

01:09:01.000 Well, I need a new site.

01:09:03.000 I need a new thing.

01:09:04.000 How do I get that thing?

01:09:05.000 Right, right.

01:09:05.000 Where is it?

01:09:08.000 How do I get access to a new perspective that I didn't consider before? 1.00

01:09:13.000 And not get overwhelmed by fucking pop-up ads and bullshit and nonsense. 1.00

01:09:18.000 Right. 1.00

01:09:18.000 Yeah, I do. 1.00

01:09:19.000 We're currently on the road.

01:09:22.000 This is a stop on the way.

01:09:24.000 We're playing Texas with the new version two of the Pussyford Tour.

01:09:28.000 And I find that when I'm in the break after soundcheck or before training jujitsu with whatever person I can find in that town, I end up, rather than going to those things that I should, like you're talking about, I'll just go back and I'll be watching in my dressing room just old episodes of stuff.

01:09:49.000 So it's almost like, for me, it's like I'm turning my brain off with my Apple TV. I'm just gonna zone out and have whatever light lunch I'm gonna have before the show, play with my dog and just let that kind of be almost background noise.

01:10:06.000 What's going on.

01:10:07.000 So I feel like there's an unconscious Zen thing happening with that eye candy and, you know, familiarity.

01:10:17.000 Like, how many times can I watch Talladega Nights?

01:10:21.000 Many more, to be honest.

01:10:23.000 I'm going to watch that many more times.

01:10:24.000 But, like, that kind of thing, just being there on the background as a familiar comfort, you know, blanket, you know, to have it on so that I'm not thinking too much.

01:10:36.000 So in a way, I'm putting that on, so I'm not on this.

01:10:38.000 Right.

01:10:38.000 So you're learning.

01:10:40.000 I'm learning to just put a movie on that, like, it's going, and meanwhile I'm cleaning out a drawer in the road case of shit that I didn't need. 0.84

01:10:46.000 Like, everybody hands me t-shirts. 0.74

01:10:48.000 I'm trying to figure out, like, okay, do I really want to hang on to this t-shirt?

01:10:51.000 There's so many t-shirts.

01:10:52.000 Yeah, there's so many shirts.

01:10:54.000 So many shirts. 0.99

01:10:55.000 I intentionally didn't bring you anything today, because, like, I always, like, I feel like you're probably just every fucking time somebody comes in there, they're just giving you shit. 0.99

01:11:04.000 Yeah, but, you know, every now and then you get good shit. 0.99

01:11:07.000 That's true. 0.99

01:11:08.000 That's true.

01:11:08.000 It's cool.

01:11:09.000 I have a lot of cool shit because of that. 0.99

01:11:11.000 Right. 0.99

01:11:11.000 Some of it's nonsense, but... 0.99

01:11:13.000 Right.

01:11:14.000 But it's, again, it's like the phone thing.

01:11:16.000 You've got to filter out what is nonsense.

01:11:17.000 Yeah.

01:11:19.000 What are you doing in Texas?

01:11:21.000 Which shows?

01:11:22.000 We just played, Pussifer just played San Antonio and El Paso.

01:11:26.000 We play Houston tomorrow and Fort Worth the day after. 0.99

01:11:32.000 And I don't know where the fuck we go from there. 0.97

01:11:35.000 I think it's, I want to say Louisiana, Baton Rouge and New Orleans. 0.98

01:11:42.000 Eventually I think Halloween we're actually playing in Nashville, which I'm kind of excited about because I love Nashville.

01:11:47.000 Nashville's awesome.

01:11:48.000 It's getting a little weird.

01:11:50.000 It's getting a little Hollywood.

01:11:52.000 Yeah, but every place is going to get that way.

01:11:55.000 Of course.

01:11:56.000 Again, right back to this and right back to a podcast like this, I say, oh, I love Nashville, and that now people are going to, you know, there's going to be, even if it's five people that decide to go to Nashville because of hearing you say you like Nashville or me saying I like Nashville.

01:12:13.000 You know, when did somebody say something about Austin that made you move to Austin?

01:12:18.000 Because, you know, somebody said something and inspired you to move to Austin, which, when I used to be here, it was a much different town when I hung out here in 1985 at what's now Elysium is the club now on Red River.

01:12:36.000 It used to be, it might still be, it was like a gay bar.

01:12:40.000 And on one night a week, it would have a thing called Club Iguana.

01:12:44.000 And it was like a kind of a goth, punk rock night in that location.

01:12:50.000 And that area was, you know, it was like the sketchy 7th Street was all the, you know, kind of cool alternative gay bar, punk rock thing. 0.80

01:12:59.000 And the 6th Street was all the frat boy things.

01:13:01.000 I think it's still kind of that.

01:13:04.000 Sixth Street's pretty weird now. 0.98

01:13:06.000 It's got a lot of cool shit. 0.99

01:13:07.000 Is it? 1.00

01:13:07.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:13:08.000 It's like hip-hop clubs.

01:13:10.000 Yeah.

01:13:10.000 Well, Elysium now is like, I think, I could be completely wrong, but it's more like, now it's goth most of the time.

01:13:17.000 Oh, really?

01:13:18.000 But I don't know that.

01:13:18.000 I haven't been in years.

01:13:20.000 Oh, I started coming here in 99. And I just, I always liked the fact that it seemed different than any other city.

01:13:27.000 Yeah.

01:13:28.000 It's got its own, is this it here?

01:13:29.000 This is Austin in 1985. Nice.

01:13:34.000 They look like they're dancing to Wham.

01:13:36.000 Wake me up!

01:13:37.000 And where is this?

01:13:38.000 I typed in that club you said, and this is a video that popped up.

01:13:42.000 Club Iguana?

01:13:42.000 Yeah.

01:13:43.000 I don't know that it's it specifically, but it's someone interviewing people on the street down there.

01:13:47.000 Okay.

01:13:48.000 How fucking amazing would it be if you see me in this video? 0.96

01:13:53.000 I was hoping. 0.97

01:13:54.000 Yeah.

01:13:57.000 By day, I had my army cap on and my full BDUs.

01:14:02.000 And then as soon as we had the weekend hit and we had the time off, hat comes off, two-tone hair, mohawk, wear some Adamant-looking, Sgt. Pepper-looking jacket.

01:14:13.000 I forgot about Adamant.

01:14:15.000 And then wearing stretchy blouse for pants with a belt.

01:14:19.000 So it's actually a shirt.

01:14:21.000 You're wearing it almost like tights.

01:14:24.000 We had a fun time.

01:14:25.000 It was a good time. 0.99

01:14:26.000 If you saw photos of me, you'd be like, I'm posting this shit on the internet, dude. 1.00

01:14:31.000 Fucking don't you fucking dare post that on the internet. 1.00

01:14:34.000 But that was a good time. 0.99

01:14:36.000 It was fun because it was something I wasn't used to.

01:14:38.000 In Michigan, we didn't have a club like that.

01:14:41.000 And it was such a mixed, diverse group of people.

01:14:47.000 I just love that area.

01:14:49.000 And so I've always had a thing.

01:14:51.000 Since then, I've always had a thing for Austin.

01:14:53.000 But I've watched Austin change over the years.

01:14:56.000 But it seems like it has this great, I don't know if the word's libertarian or, you know, whatever.

01:15:03.000 But you've got a mix of everybody here, and they've managed to get along and not kill each other.

01:15:09.000 Well, it's a good combination of a blue city and a red state, which is kind of my favorite.

01:15:14.000 Right.

01:15:15.000 It's like open-mindedness and progressive, but yet surrounded by people with guns who farm.

01:15:22.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:15:24.000 Yeah, and that's kind of what we have kind of up in, like in Jerome, Sedona area.

01:15:30.000 It's very much that mix.

01:15:32.000 Yeah.

01:15:33.000 But, you know, it's, I don't know, I've always had a thing for Austin.

01:15:37.000 I just like coming here.

01:15:39.000 It's that town that makes sense to me.

01:15:42.000 Yeah, as did I. That's why I moved here.

01:15:44.000 Los Angeles, I don't resonate with Los Angeles.

01:15:48.000 I don't resonate with far kind of more right cities either.

01:15:54.000 Is there a right city?

01:15:56.000 I don't know.

01:15:56.000 It just seems like there's...

01:15:57.000 They don't even exist, do they?

01:15:59.000 That's the thing about you get a group of people together.

01:16:01.000 They almost always become a Democrat city.

01:16:04.000 That could be, yeah.

01:16:06.000 It's weird.

01:16:07.000 It's fascinating that you just get enough numbers and they go blue.

01:16:11.000 Almost always.

01:16:13.000 Alright.

01:16:14.000 That's the big fear about Texas, is that you get enough people come here, it's gonna go blue. 0.84

01:16:20.000 They're all worried that they're gonna lose that fucking weird edge of freedom that makes Texas unique and independent. 0.92

01:16:27.000 Yeah, Texas. 0.97

01:16:29.000 I don't think you have anything to worry about, Texas.

01:16:32.000 Texas is an amazing state, and it's just going to maintain its identity through whatever.

01:16:38.000 Hopefully.

01:16:38.000 Yeah.

01:16:39.000 Yeah, I like it.

01:16:40.000 I hope.

01:16:42.000 It's just...

01:16:44.000 When you see that video from 1985, what's interesting about that, that was pre-internet, right?

01:16:50.000 So the identity of that was kind of organic.

01:16:53.000 People just decided to all meet at this point.

01:16:58.000 That was ground zero for ecstasy.

01:17:01.000 Dallas was, right?

01:17:02.000 Yeah, but when I was at that club, it had come here in its purest form, and I was still in the military, and I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to chance that.

01:17:13.000 Getting caught with it?

01:17:15.000 Yeah, or I don't know.

01:17:15.000 Like, they said you couldn't...

01:17:16.000 It wasn't technically illegal.

01:17:18.000 It just wasn't legal.

01:17:19.000 You know, it was that weird thing.

01:17:20.000 But, like, there's just always that clause in the military of, like, da-da [...]-da, but up to our discretion.

01:17:27.000 Wow.

01:17:28.000 So, like, you know, and I'm not going to... 1.00

01:17:30.000 I'm not going to chance it because maybe they would detect it somehow and, you know, I'd be fucked and sent to fucking the brig. 0.99

01:17:38.000 There's a podcast called Psychedelic Salon. 0.98

01:17:41.000 There's a guy named Lorenzo who runs it, who has also been a guest on the podcast.

01:17:44.000 But he was a pretty straight-laced guy and he was living in Texas.

01:17:49.000 I think it was Dallas.

01:17:50.000 And then did Ecstasy for the first time.

01:17:53.000 And was like, whoa.

01:17:54.000 Like, okay. 1.00

01:17:56.000 Like, this is a different fucking world. 0.99

01:17:58.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:17:59.000 I can see why people might do this.

01:18:01.000 Yeah.

01:18:01.000 And then he became not just a hippie, but a guy who runs a podcast that plays, like, old Alan Watts speeches and Terence McKenna things.

01:18:11.000 I mean, Psychedelic Salon is probably, like, the best resource of, like, just psychedelic conversations and...

01:18:21.000 And it's run by this guy who's – God, I think he was a lawyer, wasn't he?

01:18:25.000 Do you remember?

01:18:26.000 I forget what his – but he was like a super straight-laced guy who someone turned him on to it.

01:18:31.000 It's like Jack Harrow, the guy who wrote The Emperor Has No Clothes.

01:18:34.000 That guy was a – Like a Goldwater Republican and got divorced, met some new gal, they smoked pot together, and then all of a sudden they became this like hemp activist and, you know, became this like super open-minded hippie who's writing books on mushrooms and marijuana.

01:18:57.000 Yeah, I can see that.

01:18:58.000 Because those things are, you know, they alter your perspective and they open up neural pathways that hadn't been open to you before.

01:19:07.000 Now, I wonder if you're a kid who grew up in that thing as a young kid and you tried it.

01:19:14.000 If it wouldn't have the same effect because you're not—that consciousness shift, that near-death kind of thing in your body or whatever that shifts your perspective, that opens up new possibilities, if that was always kind of present in you,

01:19:31.000 are you a person who would build something interesting or go down some interesting path, or would it take you— Trudging along in the world that you live in and all of a sudden having that moment, that consciousness opening thing that you've already established what you think the world is and then it changes your perspective.

01:19:52.000 Yeah, I've met some people that started out that way.

01:19:56.000 They started out like very liberal, open-minded, progressive, drugs and free thinking.

01:20:03.000 And then they got annoyed with all the negative aspects of it and they eventually became conservative.

01:20:09.000 They eventually realized like, hey, hard work and dedication and discipline are very important components of a successful existence.

01:20:19.000 Interesting how that flips, right?

01:20:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:20:23.000 I can see that.

01:20:24.000 I can see that.

01:20:24.000 That makes sense.

01:20:25.000 Yeah.

01:20:26.000 It's just...

01:20:27.000 What's one of the beautiful things about America is that there are so many different ways to live.

01:20:32.000 And you can find these little patches of humans that sort of have just gotten to this different mindset together.

01:20:43.000 You know?

01:20:44.000 Yeah, not easy to arrive at.

01:20:46.000 No.

01:20:46.000 It's like there's so many – I mean there's different ways to live your life and there's different cities that you can go to and they'll help you with that.

01:20:55.000 They'll feed that vibe or destroy it or turn you into them or, you know, turn you jaded like the New York City vibe.

01:21:06.000 Yeah.

01:21:08.000 I grew up in a small town, so that's kind of where I resonate more.

01:21:12.000 I feed off of a larger city vibe when I'm there in it for those temporary moments.

01:21:21.000 But then I got to retreat back to population 500. Yeah, even when I lived in LA, I didn't live in LA. I lived outside of it in Ventura County and just, you know, dealing with coyotes and shit.

01:21:37.000 That to me made more sense. 0.98

01:21:38.000 I need some peace.

01:21:40.000 I mean, I have friends that love to be on top of it.

01:21:42.000 They love living in Manhattan on the 34th floor. 0.95

01:21:46.000 I always kind of lived right in that kind of near between Cahuenga and Wilton in the Hollywood Hill area where you get like coyotes the size of fucking Buick area.

01:22:02.000 The Hollywood Hills, it's always been weird, because it is kind of urban, but it's kind of not.

01:22:08.000 Like, it's really quick to get into, like, you get to Chateau Marmont in, like, five minutes. 0.99

01:22:13.000 Or, you know, needles and bum shit. 0.98

01:22:16.000 Like, that's right there, and Chateau Marmont's right there, and then, like, the Gucci's right there, and then there's, like, a coyote and, you know, fighting over a fucking raven and fighting over a rabbit. 0.99

01:22:26.000 Well, especially now.

01:22:28.000 Like, have you been now and seen the, like, the human wildlife is out of control now?

01:22:33.000 Yeah, it's nuts.

01:22:35.000 I don't know what to, you know, I have no...

01:22:39.000 I can't really speak on it because I have no solution.

01:22:41.000 I don't like speaking about things that I don't think I have maybe like a suggestion of a solution.

01:22:45.000 I just, it's a mess.

01:22:50.000 I can acknowledge it's a mess and I have no idea how to get out of it.

01:22:54.000 Does it shock you?

01:22:55.000 Do you see how much different things are like three years, like post-COVID? Yeah.

01:23:00.000 It does.

01:23:00.000 I just assume.

01:23:02.000 And I guess my retreat is to try to grow more food, to teach my friends how to grow food, and to understand how to, you know, distillation, roasting coffees, like growing things,

01:23:17.000 producing things in-house.

01:23:21.000 That's my default of understanding, like, whatever's going to happen, unless it's a meteor or something crazy that interrupts, you know, what we recognize to be as weather patterns and growing seasons and those kind of things.

01:23:36.000 Whatever's happening politically, financially in the world, if we can just remember how to secure fresh water and grow things and survive whatever this is, I don't have any answers other than that.

01:23:50.000 That's, you know, that's my default, is to grow things and to not hoard, to actually be active and conscious, aware, in the space to figure out how to survive this thing.

01:24:06.000 It might be the only thing you can do.

01:24:08.000 Because it doesn't seem to me that anybody has real answers.

01:24:11.000 They have opinions and they express those opinions and some are more confident than others.

01:24:16.000 But it doesn't seem like there's any real clear path as to how things...

01:24:20.000 I think it's just a time thing.

01:24:22.000 I think it's like the Hindus came up with the concept of the yugas, the different ages of civilization.

01:24:31.000 I think that was very astute.

01:24:34.000 I think they were accurate.

01:24:36.000 I think there's something to that, that things have to go in sort of a natural cycle of success and decay.

01:24:41.000 It'll come to a head and we'll figure out a way through it.

01:24:45.000 Yeah, you just gotta take care of yourself while it's all getting weird.

01:24:49.000 Yeah.

01:24:50.000 And also help other people take care of themselves, too.

01:24:53.000 Right. 0.99

01:24:54.000 That's where the walking dead shit goes sideways when people are just... 1.00

01:25:01.000 Not taking care of each other. 1.00

01:25:04.000 Right.

01:25:04.000 Yeah, that's what's interesting about that show or interesting about any concept of the apocalypse end times.

01:25:11.000 The real concern is other humans, is how humans react to this deterioration of civility.

01:25:18.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:25:20.000 Yeah, I would like to think, because I'm an idiot and romantic, I'd like to think that we would—most of us would choose the right way to do a thing.

01:25:28.000 But when faced with impossible situations, I think that we're probably going to go back to our primitive— I think many of us will choose the right way.

01:25:38.000 But the problem is there's been so many people that developed in sort of a— An environment where you didn't really have to have earned character, you know,

01:25:54.000 where you don't really develop the concepts of discipline and of, you know, of postponing pleasure and, you know, to farm off All the important things that need to be done to have society function correctly on other people but yet expect it to work.

01:26:21.000 And then it goes away and you never really developed the discipline or the skill or the understanding of what's required.

01:26:30.000 Yeah, just understanding, you know, and I don't, this is of, I don't know, I'm just kind of making this up, but it seems like that 40-hour work week, I know that's kind of a standard, like, you know, that's your weird corporate,

01:26:45.000 that's the way we've grown up, but if you can do a thing and focus on doing a thing where you're, you know, you're working your 30- to 60-hour week of something that you're doing...

01:26:58.000 That I feel like as long as it's feeding you in some way, that's what I do.

01:27:04.000 I don't have like... 0.98

01:27:06.000 I don't work like, I don't know, 10 hours and then coast for the rest of the fucking week. 0.97

01:27:14.000 I'm working... 0.90

01:27:18.000 That moment where you're starting your workout and your heart rate's going up and you're like, man, I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this today.

01:27:26.000 Well, you've got to just get past that first five minutes of getting to the next thing. 0.97

01:27:33.000 And then you can do that thing for fucking 70 hours a week. 0.96

01:27:37.000 You can get past that little initial... 0.99

01:27:42.000 The resistance.

01:27:43.000 The resistance.

01:27:44.000 Yeah.

01:27:45.000 That's the thing that people don't learn how to do.

01:27:47.000 And, you know, now people are struggling with remote work because they don't want to go back to an office where they're forced to actually get past the resistance. 0.99

01:27:56.000 You can kind of like fuck off and you use an app that pretends your cursor is moving around and you get caught jerking off on Zoom. 0.99

01:28:05.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:28:06.000 No, I didn't.

01:28:09.000 When?

01:28:37.000 I want to say accomplishment, but that's not really the word.

01:28:40.000 It's like engagement where life becomes rewarding and stimulating.

01:28:50.000 It's like you have these robust moments, these exciting things that are happening in these endeavors, these things that you're choosing to do that are complicated and difficult to do and if you can get past that initial resistance.

01:29:03.000 But some people just never develop that and that's what's unfortunate to me about people that just work.

01:29:10.000 They just have a job and the job doesn't engage them and they just want to get out of there.

01:29:15.000 It's like there's other ways to live life and if you could find a life that is engaging and if you could find things that do stimulate you and find things that you do Get real satisfaction out of the complexity of them and the learning and the growing and the constant stimulation of those things.

01:29:37.000 I think part of it, and this is just my upbringing, I don't know that this was everybody's, but my dad and my stepmother were very inspirational for me to be able to always Yeah.

01:30:15.000 And at the end of the day, you're not going to know what you just did.

01:30:19.000 We're not going to know until like next week or four weeks from now or six weeks from now.

01:30:23.000 Now we're weeding that spot to make sure that this thing survives.

01:30:28.000 And then you're harvesting that thing and we're going to have that thing for dinner. 0.61

01:30:31.000 When you start connecting that all the way back to the cause and effect, that was a very important lesson in how some of the things I did wrong so we don't get to have this part.

01:30:44.000 So understanding everything you had to do for your day to enjoy the thing you're doing, but also understanding you're doing it for a bigger purpose.

01:30:53.000 You have a connection with it.

01:30:56.000 I don't know.

01:30:57.000 That was instilled in me early.

01:30:59.000 And I think you're right.

01:31:00.000 People that don't really understand, if you're doing this thing just because you're trying to survive and you're not connecting...

01:31:08.000 The beginning to the end. 0.97

01:31:10.000 Yeah, I guess you are miserable.

01:31:12.000 You're going to pick up the app that's going to move the cursor around because you're not really helping anyone.

01:31:18.000 They don't have examples of those people around them, which is part of the problem of all of us.

01:31:24.000 You were talking about how all art is kind of inspired by other art.

01:31:30.000 Well, this is kind of an art to living life.

01:31:33.000 And sometimes we don't have local examples of someone who's doing it in a way that you find engaging and stimulating.

01:31:41.000 And so you don't know what to do.

01:31:43.000 And if you're surrounded by people that are just using that app to move the cursor around, you think this is just the way to do it.

01:31:49.000 And then you seek thrills in drugs or in entertainment or in something that just numbs you.

01:31:57.000 The dopamine addiction?

01:32:00.000 Yeah. 0.89

01:32:01.000 Dopamine, alcohol, jerking off, gambling, anything. 0.69

01:32:05.000 Something that just, like, removes you from the... 0.97

01:32:07.000 Sounds like a Saturday morning to me, sir.

01:32:11.000 A Sunday morning and a Monday morning and a...

01:32:14.000 I'm just kidding.

01:32:15.000 I don't gamble.

01:32:17.000 At all?

01:32:21.000 Yeah, I feel like it's a treading water disconnect from the bigger picture of things.

01:32:32.000 Yeah, that's a whole other six-hour conversation, right?

01:32:37.000 Are you just a clock?

01:32:41.000 You're just like an hourglass?

01:32:44.000 Yeah.

01:32:45.000 You're just marking time until you're done?

01:32:47.000 That's a lot of people.

01:32:48.000 That's sad to me.

01:32:51.000 Well, it's sad to them, too.

01:32:52.000 That's why so many people are depressed.

01:32:55.000 It's one of the reasons.

01:32:56.000 Well, you know, we've talked about before, like, the action-reaction, the immediate, like, the immediacy of everything.

01:33:01.000 I want this thing, and I'm bitching because Amazon didn't deliver it to me. 1.00

01:33:07.000 Before I ordered it.

01:33:08.000 They should already know what I want.

01:33:10.000 And it should come yesterday.

01:33:14.000 Life is just not like that. 1.00

01:33:15.000 And when that goes away and you're trying to figure out how to find fresh water, fuck, good luck to you. 0.98

01:33:21.000 There are so many people that develop things that do give you that immediate satisfaction. 0.99

01:33:29.000 Like TikTok.

01:33:31.000 You're just constantly getting stimulated versus being a farmer.

01:33:37.000 I've always been fascinated with farmers because when you talk to them...

01:33:41.000 That's the long game, dude.

01:33:42.000 Oh my god, that's the long game.

01:33:44.000 The amount of work involved, you talk to a real farmer, a real get-up-at-five-in-the-morning farmer, work till dark, and be exhausted, and then do it all over again, and not get rich!

01:33:58.000 And, you know, all the challenges come along with it because now I'm getting my phones blowing up the last couple days because we're spotting a bobcat in the neighborhood.

01:34:07.000 Well, that means now I've got to bring...

01:34:09.000 I'm not even there and I've got to make sure that I'm checking with Jen and make sure she's bringing the ducks home early and paying attention in the morning.

01:34:17.000 Don't let them out too soon because we want to make sure there's people around. 0.98

01:34:21.000 And I'm literally doing things like peeing into a fucking water bottle and spreading it around the perimeter of the fence because some of those predator cats, they don't like... 0.98

01:34:33.000 They think that that territory's been marked. 0.99

01:34:37.000 Does that work? 1.00

01:34:38.000 Well, I hope so because I'm the idiot not to mow in bottles of piss along the fence line. 1.00

01:34:43.000 My buddy Andrew's like, yeah, you piss along the fence line. 0.99

01:34:46.000 I'm like, dude, I'm not going to go out in my yard and pee on the fence with all my neighbors staring at me.

01:34:50.000 I'm going to have to like...

01:34:51.000 Do the weirder thing, which is pee in a bottle than four.

01:34:55.000 If it works, then great, because I've got, you know, two dozen ducks that I have to protect them.

01:35:01.000 So what do you do?

01:35:01.000 Do you hire someone to, like, watch the ducks or kill the bobcat?

01:35:06.000 Well, you can't really kill the bobcat.

01:35:08.000 It's protected.

01:35:09.000 So you just have to pay attention to when the ducks are by themselves and do things like pee on your fence line and, like, hope that they just pick...

01:35:17.000 Are you allowed to chase the bobcat off?

01:35:19.000 What are the laws in terms of...

01:35:21.000 I think you have to call the local fish and game to see if they can relocate it, maybe.

01:35:30.000 But if that bobcat finds out I have ducks...

01:35:35.000 There's not much I'm gonna be able to do.

01:35:37.000 It will come back until it gets all of the ducks. 0.99

01:35:40.000 Yeah, we had that in California with chickens and coyotes. 1.00

01:35:44.000 They got all my fucking chickens. 1.00

01:35:46.000 Just a matter of time. 1.00

01:35:47.000 Just mark your calendar because eventually, like, in about, you know, a year you're gonna, like, the video surface where I'm out there half-naked peeing on a fence chasing off a bobcat, you know, with a fucking paintball gun. 0.99

01:36:02.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:36:04.000 A lot of people just hire someone to deal with that.

01:36:08.000 But that's not us.

01:36:09.000 This is what we do.

01:36:10.000 This is part of our world.

01:36:12.000 We raise ducks.

01:36:13.000 We raise quail.

01:36:15.000 My wife's a, I don't know if I told you this, she's a falconer, licensed falconer now.

01:36:20.000 So we have a hawk named Loki.

01:36:24.000 Whoa.

01:36:25.000 So she has a full-on hawk. 0.97

01:36:27.000 So when you say licensed falconer, do you use that falcon to go do stuff?

01:36:32.000 Is that falcon going to snatch some quail for you?

01:36:35.000 Well, yeah, it loves the quail, but we can take it around the vineyards eventually, and it'll chase off ground squirrels and rabbits out of the vineyard.

01:36:44.000 I was at a Tohono Ranch recently, which is in central California, and there's more ground squirrels than you could possibly imagine.

01:36:54.000 They were telling me that the body mass The biomass of ground squirrels is greater than the biomass of cows they have.

01:37:02.000 So they have beef cows everywhere.

01:37:04.000 There's enormous cows everywhere.

01:37:06.000 But there's more body weight in ground squirrels than there are cows.

01:37:11.000 That's nuts.

01:37:11.000 There's so many of them.

01:37:13.000 There's little holes everywhere you go.

01:37:14.000 I have a solution.

01:37:15.000 His name's Loki.

01:37:16.000 Loki would have to go to work.

01:37:18.000 I watched an eagle catch something.

01:37:20.000 I don't know what it caught, but a golden eagle.

01:37:22.000 I watched it snatch something and then drag it up into the cover.

01:37:27.000 I couldn't see.

01:37:28.000 But I watched it come down, snatch this thing, and then it was moving with this thing on the ground.

01:37:33.000 It's incredible how they can see that from so far away and like...

01:37:39.000 Boom! 1.00

01:37:39.000 And those little fuckers are trying to get away from that eagle, too. 1.00

01:37:42.000 This is a beautiful dance. 1.00

01:37:43.000 But to be there, right when it caught it, was wild.

01:37:46.000 I tried to get close enough to take a photo of it, but I couldn't.

01:37:50.000 But it's, you know, that's the balance.

01:37:52.000 Like, you have to have that.

01:37:54.000 And when you fuck that balance up with, like, a giant pack of ducks that are all in this one, it's like, this is so much food in this one spot.

01:38:01.000 Why am I going anywhere else? 1.00

01:38:03.000 Fuck ground squirrels. 1.00

01:38:04.000 These things don't even fly. 1.00

01:38:05.000 Yeah, and they'll come after your ducks.

01:38:07.000 Yeah.

01:38:08.000 What do you use the ducks for?

01:38:09.000 Eggs?

01:38:09.000 Or you eat them?

01:38:10.000 Eggs.

01:38:10.000 No, the eggs.

01:38:12.000 I make the...

01:38:13.000 Well, Chris at the Osteria makes...

01:38:16.000 uses the yolks for our pasta, and then eventually when I open up the brunch place, we'll use the whites to do a quiche.

01:38:25.000 Duck eggs have a weird way of, like, coating the surface of your mouth.

01:38:30.000 Yeah.

01:38:30.000 Like, the roof of your mouth, like...

01:38:31.000 Yeah.

01:38:32.000 It's a weird egg.

01:38:34.000 Yeah.

01:38:35.000 That's why I like when you put them in the pasta, it actually works better.

01:38:37.000 Rather than just having the scrambled duck egg, I don't prefer the scrambled duck egg.

01:38:42.000 I like using the yolk for the pasta.

01:38:44.000 We'll use a couple of yolks, but mainly like an egg white with some yolks, quiche base.

01:38:49.000 We were talking about this before I know, but are you getting your wheat from other sources?

01:38:54.000 Like you getting it from outside the United States?

01:38:56.000 Yeah, the best, generally speaking, the best wheat flour is an Italian milled flour, but a significant portion of that flour is actually hard wheat,

01:39:14.000 winter wheat from Arizona.

01:39:16.000 So you mix them like a blend?

01:39:18.000 Well, they do.

01:39:18.000 All the wheat that gets grown around the Midwest and Arizona ends up going to a central commodity, so it goes to a central area.

01:39:28.000 Then it gets shipped to a place like Italy, and they mill it and blend it and sell it back to you.

01:39:33.000 And what's the benefit of adding the Arizona wheat?

01:39:37.000 Just the way that it works with pasta, the gluten structure of the pasta, that hard winter wheat from Arizona is a good ingredient to make it.

01:39:51.000 Just for texture?

01:39:53.000 Texture.

01:39:54.000 Holding the pasta together, keeping the form.

01:40:00.000 It's pretty cool to know that there's a significant amount of Arizona wheat in our flour that we use.

01:40:10.000 Even though it's not milled in the state, it's a part of the blend.

01:40:15.000 And is this an heirloom wheat?

01:40:17.000 Is this a modified wheat?

01:40:19.000 We were using quite a bit of heirloom flour from Arizona, but the combination of the blend, whatever the Italians do to blend that thing together, it just ends up being better.

01:40:30.000 So we're trying as much as we can to use Arizona wheat blended in.

01:40:33.000 We blend more in.

01:40:35.000 When it comes in, just because we're trying to support the flour from Arizona.

01:40:40.000 But at the end of the day, it's got to have structure.

01:40:44.000 It's got to be tasty.

01:40:46.000 So we've got to do what we've got to do to make the end product be presentable and awesome.

01:40:51.000 How much do you pay attention to glyphosate and the real debate now about how much glyphosate is getting into our food supply?

01:41:01.000 You don't know what Roundup is?

01:41:02.000 Oh yeah, Roundup.

01:41:03.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:41:04.000 We don't use it in the vineyard.

01:41:07.000 We used to because we thought that's what you're supposed to do, right?

01:41:11.000 And then our southern Arizona, the 80-acre vineyard down there, we have awesome ground cover down there.

01:41:16.000 And so we just mow the ground cover down or mulch it down. 0.88

01:41:20.000 So we're not using any of the pre-emergent or the weeding shit anymore. 0.83

01:41:24.000 It's a big debate now because there was a recent study that I think it was like 80% of people they tested had glyphosate in their bodies. 0.95

01:41:31.000 I would imagine it's all of us.

01:41:33.000 Yeah.

01:41:35.000 That makes sense.

01:41:36.000 Because we used it on everything forever.

01:41:40.000 Yeah, it's a creepy herbicide.

01:41:43.000 And also, I think they've genetically modified certain foods to have glyphosate in them.

01:41:50.000 Yeah.

01:41:51.000 Which is crazy.

01:41:52.000 Yeah.

01:41:53.000 It's like...

01:41:53.000 So we're doing our best to not, you know, we use as much as we can just, you know, manual weeding or we use the ground cover in the vineyard to eliminate that part of the process.

01:42:06.000 Do you pay attention to people like Joel Salatin from Polyface Farms or any of these people that have, like, regenerative agricultural practices where they...

01:42:14.000 It's interesting because I don't know if it's scalable.

01:42:18.000 Like, the big question is, like...

01:42:20.000 That ends up being the issue.

01:42:23.000 Too many people.

01:42:23.000 Right.

01:42:25.000 Too many people not growing food, which is the big problem in cities.

01:42:28.000 Too many people not growing food, too many people in general, or just the scale of doing that thing with the current, the way we do farming.

01:42:38.000 Like, you know, the debate of, you know...

01:42:40.000 Migrant workers coming in and working on things.

01:42:45.000 It's a lot.

01:42:47.000 It's a lot to do.

01:42:48.000 So that's why you end up defaulting to things like Roundup and those things because they're trying to make the margin and cut the corner to get the thing done.

01:42:56.000 It's an economy of scale, I guess.

01:43:01.000 So we're trying as best we can to do that in-house.

01:43:05.000 We grow our own food for The Trattoria Osseria in the place in Scottsdale, we do as much as we can to grow food for those locations.

01:43:14.000 So the stuff that's on the pizza, the stuff that's stuffed in the raviolis, the salad you get on the Labrador plate.

01:43:22.000 A significant amount of that is what we grow.

01:43:25.000 You start to supplement.

01:43:27.000 So when we supplement, we supplement from local growers in Arizona that are, you know, organic growers that are not using the Roundup.

01:43:35.000 But again, you're dealing with a couple medium-sized restaurants.

01:43:40.000 Three restaurants, yeah.

01:43:41.000 We're not talking about a chain of olive gardens across the country.

01:43:45.000 Right.

01:43:45.000 Or just a city.

01:43:47.000 Yeah.

01:43:47.000 A city of 15 million people that aren't growing food.

01:43:52.000 Right.

01:43:52.000 Just the sheer bulk of the amount of stuff that's consumed.

01:43:56.000 Right.

01:43:57.000 That's the weirdest thing about cities, is that we've figured out this way to make these centers where you have extraordinary populations with, you know, cement structures and, you know, water piped in underground, but there's no food.

01:44:11.000 Everything has to be trucked in.

01:44:13.000 Yeah.

01:44:14.000 Yeah.

01:44:14.000 I don't know.

01:44:15.000 I'm sure there's somebody smarter than me could figure that out.

01:44:19.000 But it's all at margins, isn't it?

01:44:22.000 I don't know.

01:44:42.000 You can't put a bunch of hamsters in a terrarium or aquarium for people to come and buy.

01:44:47.000 Because if you put too many in there, you'll come back and half of them are dead.

01:44:51.000 They eat themselves? 1.00

01:44:52.000 They'll fucking kill each other. 1.00

01:44:53.000 Really? 1.00

01:44:54.000 Yeah.

01:44:54.000 Just from overpopulation?

01:44:56.000 They will turn on each other and they will eat each other.

01:44:58.000 I've read a study once where we're talking about rat population density studies that their behavior mirrors the behavior of high population cities.

01:45:07.000 That you have a certain amount of mental illness that occurs, a certain amount of violence that occurs.

01:45:11.000 I can see that, yeah.

01:45:13.000 That's just a function of...

01:45:15.000 And then, you know, we would get in the shipment of the new hamsters this week, and I would have to take this aquarium, move it away, put a new aquarium there, put fresh shavings and stuff in it, and then move those hamsters and those and put them in together that way.

01:45:30.000 If I put the new hamsters in with the old hamsters in their environment that they've been pissing in for a couple days, they fight.

01:45:38.000 You have to basically introduce them to a new environment so that it's new to all of them, and it's new smells, and then they won't fight as much.

01:45:46.000 So we need to start a new country, as you're saying?

01:45:48.000 Correct.

01:45:49.000 That's the move.

01:45:50.000 Hey.

01:45:50.000 Where do we go?

01:45:51.000 Maybe with global warming, Greenland will be available.

01:45:54.000 Yeah.

01:45:55.000 Or we could just take all the garbage and pile and compact it into bricks and make an island.

01:46:00.000 Ah! 0.99

01:46:02.000 Garbage island.

01:46:03.000 That's not a bad idea. 0.93

01:46:06.000 Something has to happen.

01:46:07.000 I patented that just now.

01:46:09.000 Copyright.

01:46:10.000 Yeah, I wonder.

01:46:11.000 I wonder when you look at the human race is approaching 8 billion people.

01:46:16.000 At what point in time do we all exhibit?

01:46:21.000 Is that the future of the human race?

01:46:23.000 It's like the worst aspects of urban living.

01:46:26.000 Just universally?

01:46:28.000 I think it's going to sort itself out.

01:46:30.000 I think it's going to end up coming to a head in some way.

01:46:33.000 I don't know.

01:46:34.000 Civil War, meteor, virus, something will...

01:46:39.000 Alien invasion?

01:46:41.000 Alien invasion, turn us into fuel. 0.95

01:46:46.000 Or the other concept is that when people live in these urban areas, they actually have less kids.

01:46:55.000 And that slowly population growth sort of declines naturally because people could become obsessed with their careers and, you know...

01:47:04.000 That doesn't seem to be happening.

01:47:05.000 It is happening in some places, apparently.

01:47:09.000 It's like Japan has an issue with that right now.

01:47:11.000 And some different cities do have...

01:47:14.000 They don't have the sustainable population for their future of what they're doing?

01:47:17.000 Yeah, the thought is that people are having so few children that ultimately, at one point in time, you're going to see a population decline.

01:47:27.000 And that there's going to be this sort of an implosion.

01:47:30.000 Like Elon's actually talked about that, the importance of...

01:47:33.000 Having children, you know, like so many people aren't having children that live in these urban areas that you're going to see a collapse.

01:47:41.000 You know, I'm sure there's a mathematician out there that can say, okay, for every person, how many kids should I have?

01:47:48.000 One?

01:47:49.000 Two?

01:47:50.000 Right.

01:47:51.000 You know, so if between my wife and I, there's two kids, is that enough?

01:47:55.000 That seems like enough.

01:47:57.000 One.

01:47:57.000 But if you only have one, then naturally you're going to have a decline.

01:48:01.000 Two people have one kid, you've got to decline.

01:48:03.000 Right.

01:48:03.000 That's a lot of what's going on, and maybe some people are not having kids at all.

01:48:07.000 Right.

01:48:08.000 Because they're dedicated to their careers.

01:48:10.000 Okay, makes sense.

01:48:12.000 Yeah.

01:48:12.000 Voucher system.

01:48:14.000 Voucher?

01:48:15.000 Oh, then you've got the government involved.

01:48:17.000 Telling people what to do and not to do.

01:48:19.000 That's never good.

01:48:22.000 Sometimes it's okay.

01:48:24.000 You live in, like, how many people live in Jerome?

01:48:28.000 500. Jesus.

01:48:30.000 That might be the way to go.

01:48:33.000 You like it, huh?

01:48:34.000 But the contrast between that and touring has got to be pretty cool.

01:48:40.000 But if you just live there with no touring, you might get a little bored.

01:48:43.000 You know, you've got Flagstaff to the north, you've got Sedona, you've got Phoenix to the south.

01:48:48.000 Right, you can visit other spots.

01:48:49.000 Yeah, it's not that far away.

01:48:51.000 Prescott's a little hopping little town.

01:48:53.000 It's pretty great.

01:48:54.000 Prescott's a hopping little town.

01:48:56.000 It's kind of cowboy, but it's got some fun activities.

01:49:01.000 There's one area, maybe it's Prescott, that's one of the best places to observe the night sky.

01:49:09.000 Well, a lot of places are like that.

01:49:10.000 Jerome's amazing for that because there's definitely a light discipline as far as like an ordinance is about having too many lights on.

01:49:18.000 Is there?

01:49:18.000 Yeah.

01:49:19.000 So you can actually see.

01:49:20.000 It's like this.

01:49:21.000 It's crazy.

01:49:21.000 And it's just for that purpose?

01:49:23.000 I think.

01:49:24.000 Partially.

01:49:25.000 You can only do that in smaller areas.

01:49:27.000 Yeah, it's amazing.

01:49:28.000 The stars in Arizona are incredible because there's less humidity in the air.

01:49:37.000 So just that less humidity in the air doesn't kind of disperse the light.

01:49:41.000 So it's focused.

01:49:42.000 You can see all the stars and you can see the Milky Way.

01:49:45.000 Oh, yeah.

01:49:46.000 You can tell when that's Venus.

01:49:48.000 You can tell that that's Venus, you know?

01:49:50.000 That's a planet.

01:49:51.000 That's a star.

01:49:53.000 That's the beautiful thing about living in a place where it doesn't have light pollution.

01:49:57.000 There's a humbling aspect to staring out at the cosmos that really lets you know, like, hey, we're a part of this enormous, impossibly big thing.

01:50:08.000 And it's not just about your career.

01:50:10.000 It's not just about your credit card debt and how much you owe in your car.

01:50:15.000 The noise of the big city can kind of drown a lot of that out.

01:50:18.000 The noise and the light.

01:50:20.000 I mean, it's not a...

01:50:24.000 That environment where you have extreme light pollution and no access to the stars, it's very unnatural and very unusual in terms of a human history.

01:50:35.000 It's never happened before.

01:50:36.000 Up until the last couple hundred years with the invention of electricity and the Industrial Revolution.

01:50:41.000 Yeah, I never really think of that, yeah.

01:50:42.000 They didn't have that.

01:50:44.000 So people had sort of a, there was a humbling aspect to the night that allowed people to just like get a perspective and also just the beauty and the majesty of the sky and the looking at the cosmos and looking at the Milky Way.

01:51:02.000 It put things into focus in a way that I don't think people in cities have access to now.

01:51:13.000 Come visit the desert.

01:51:14.000 Did you ever see anything up there in the sky?

01:51:16.000 Look at that.

01:51:17.000 Where's that?

01:51:20.000 Prescott.

01:51:20.000 That's Prescott.

01:51:21.000 So is it Prescott?

01:51:22.000 Is that the place?

01:51:23.000 I don't know.

01:51:24.000 I was trying to find that specifically.

01:51:25.000 Prescott.

01:51:25.000 Say it right.

01:51:26.000 I'm sorry.

01:51:27.000 Prescott.

01:51:27.000 Like Biscuit.

01:51:28.000 Prescott.

01:51:29.000 Prescott, Arizona.

01:51:30.000 You'll get yelled at by the locals. 1.00

01:51:32.000 Well, fuck them. 1.00

01:51:33.000 That's what you want to yell at me about? 1.00

01:51:35.000 That's beautiful, though. 1.00

01:51:36.000 Goddamn. 0.99

01:51:36.000 Yeah, it's insane. 0.99

01:51:37.000 And that's pretty much what I see at night.

01:51:40.000 It looks that good.

01:51:41.000 Yeah, well, sometimes like that, one of those, go down to that one there, you can see the Milky Way more.

01:51:48.000 Yeah.

01:51:49.000 Wow.

01:51:50.000 So, you know, that's, you know, when you're at night on my porch, that's, I can see that.

01:51:58.000 That's a little intense because they've definitely, like, done more of a time lapse, so it's kind of, like, really sunk in, but, like, on your average night in Arizona, I can see all those things.

01:52:08.000 Wow. 0.97

01:52:09.000 That's fucking amazing. 0.99

01:52:11.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:52:11.000 Do you ever see some weird shit flying around? 1.00

01:52:14.000 Well, I didn't. 0.99

01:52:16.000 I was abducted.

01:52:19.000 What'd you learn? 0.90

01:52:20.000 I learned that I don't like butt stuff.

01:52:23.000 Yeah. 0.70

01:52:26.000 Allegedly.

01:52:28.000 I don't know.

01:52:29.000 I don't really see anything there.

01:52:30.000 I haven't seen anything weirder, you know, kind of extraterrestrial in nature that I know of.

01:52:38.000 I might be looking right at a thing and I didn't know that it was a thing, but I don't know.

01:52:42.000 I'm just so enamored with that sky that that to me is like, that's extraterrestrial enough for me just to see that's just a majesty.

01:52:51.000 Were you living in Arizona when the Phoenix Lights thing happened?

01:52:56.000 Yeah, that was there.

01:52:57.000 Yeah.

01:52:58.000 No idea what that was.

01:52:59.000 You know, one of those things where...

01:53:01.000 Did you ever see any of it?

01:53:02.000 No, I didn't see it.

01:53:03.000 I saw videos of it, but I didn't see it.

01:53:05.000 Do you know anybody who saw any of it?

01:53:09.000 That's a weird moment in urban history, where, like, mass sightings in this one area.

01:53:16.000 You know, I think of...

01:53:17.000 I might have talked about this with you at some point.

01:53:20.000 Like, to me, it's almost like it's...

01:53:23.000 I feel like as we go forward in time, maybe there's some kind of technology that allows us to look back in time.

01:53:31.000 You pay your fee at Disneyland, and you can put the goggles on, and it opens a portal in a time frame where you're just allowed to look.

01:53:41.000 You can just look.

01:53:42.000 You can't touch.

01:53:43.000 But then if you're paying attention, you see the dude looking.

01:53:48.000 Right, you see the portal occasionally.

01:53:50.000 Yeah, the portal occasionally.

01:53:51.000 And it's just a remote viewing from a future time when they can actually, like, peak.

01:53:58.000 They can't meddle, they can't touch, they can just look.

01:54:01.000 And it's just an anomaly in our simulation.

01:54:05.000 I was reading this thing about quantum computing today.

01:54:09.000 And you could probably relate to this because you've done some music with the Fibonacci sequence.

01:54:14.000 And where they entered the Fibonacci sequence into quantum computing and they found it had something to do with different ways that time expresses itself.

01:54:28.000 So you can find this because I'm going to butcher this.

01:54:30.000 But I was reading it and I remember here it is.

01:54:32.000 Scientists fed the Fibonacci sequence into a quantum computer and something strange happened.

01:54:37.000 You can have the system behave as if there are two distinct directions of time.

01:54:43.000 I think it's just a matter of time before they figure something like that out.

01:54:46.000 But should we?

01:54:48.000 We're going to.

01:54:50.000 Aren't there movies that start this way?

01:54:52.000 There are, but there are movies that start that way because we understand how the human mind works.

01:54:56.000 This constant lust for technological innovation is never going to be quenched.

01:55:02.000 And I think if we continue to stay alive, we're going to come up with something that's going to change everything about the way we interact with reality.

01:55:13.000 And it's probably going to happen within our lifetime.

01:55:15.000 It seems like the exponential...

01:55:17.000 Yeah.

01:55:18.000 And I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing.

01:55:20.000 It probably depends on who's at the wheel.

01:55:23.000 It's a thing.

01:55:24.000 Good or bad is, you know, relative.

01:55:27.000 But I think it's going to...

01:55:30.000 We live in an amazing time because both things exist.

01:55:35.000 You have wine, and you have farmers and people cultivating food and creating art, and you also have these disruptive technologies that are being implemented in a way that we really have no idea what the consequences are.

01:55:50.000 And it's all happening simultaneously.

01:55:53.000 And it makes the hikes in the mountains more attractive.

01:55:57.000 It makes the staring at the sky in Prescott more interesting.

01:56:02.000 That you do live in these simultaneous sort of timelines.

01:56:07.000 Yeah.

01:56:10.000 That's a good thought.

01:56:11.000 Yeah.

01:56:14.000 You're not going to stop it.

01:56:16.000 I was having this conversation with my kids one night at dinner recently.

01:56:19.000 We were saying, if we just stop making new stuff right now, life's pretty good.

01:56:23.000 If we said, all the phones that we have right now, no more.

01:56:26.000 iPhone 14's the end of the line.

01:56:29.000 Just keep making them and keep fixing them, and that's it.

01:56:33.000 We don't need anything new.

01:56:35.000 But we'll never do that.

01:56:36.000 We're all just talking about it like, yeah, you're right.

01:56:38.000 That's why we're in a constant state of invading some other area that has some natural resources because we've got to get to the 16, right?

01:56:46.000 Yeah.

01:56:47.000 Gotta get to the Tesla that goes zero to 60 instantaneously. 0.95

01:56:52.000 That, you know, operates on some fucking gravity drive that allows you to punch a hole through space and time and pop up in Australia in half a second. 0.95

01:57:01.000 It's coming. 0.99

01:57:02.000 Just need a Subaru brat, man.

01:57:04.000 You'll get there.

01:57:06.000 Well, I'd imagine where you live, robust vehicles are probably very valuable.

01:57:12.000 Yeah, I have an old 73 FJ. Oh, yeah.

01:57:17.000 Those are the best.

01:57:18.000 Yeah.

01:57:18.000 FJ40? Yep.

01:57:21.000 Yeah, and it's...

01:57:22.000 Of course, we redid it.

01:57:23.000 It's like a V8 engine in it.

01:57:25.000 Do you use like an LS swap?

01:57:27.000 Is that what they did?

01:57:28.000 Like an LS V8? Like a Chevy?

01:57:30.000 Probably.

01:57:31.000 Like a GM V8? Yeah.

01:57:32.000 It's a pretty amazing...

01:57:34.000 Those are beautiful cars, man.

01:57:36.000 Those FJ40s, like Icon out of California makes those where they do the V8 swap and it's just, when you're in one of them, they're so satisfying.

01:57:47.000 It's so mechanical and everything about it is like it speaks to you and it's so robust and Yeah, mine has little ammo boxes.

01:57:58.000 Look at that.

01:57:58.000 Is that what you have?

01:57:59.000 One of those?

01:58:00.000 Yeah.

01:58:01.000 That's how you get around?

01:58:02.000 Yeah.

01:58:03.000 That keeps you grounded.

01:58:05.000 I mean, you know.

01:58:07.000 Is it a manual?

01:58:08.000 No, it's automatic. 1.00

01:58:09.000 I'm a pussy. 1.00

01:58:10.000 Oh, how dare you. 1.00

01:58:11.000 Yeah, I know.

01:58:11.000 Why didn't you get a manual?

01:58:14.000 Because...

01:58:15.000 You hate life?

01:58:17.000 You know, I'm lazy.

01:58:20.000 Yeah, see that one right there, 350 powered?

01:58:22.000 There's my, the other one, the tan one.

01:58:25.000 That's you?

01:58:26.000 Yeah, that's kind of one I have.

01:58:27.000 Those are gorgeous.

01:58:29.000 There's something about those.

01:58:30.000 That's like one of the coolest shapes that people have ever figured out for sort of an industrial vehicle or a That's perfect for a farm.

01:58:41.000 Yeah.

01:58:41.000 Do you know how to fix it?

01:58:42.000 Or do you hire someone to do it?

01:58:43.000 I've got guys that fix it.

01:58:46.000 I still have the old Subaru Brat.

01:58:49.000 You weren't kidding.

01:58:50.000 You really do have a Subaru Brat.

01:58:52.000 My wife stole it for the 24 hours of lemons races. 1.00

01:58:57.000 What the fuck is that? 1.00

01:59:00.000 That's your homework. 1.00

01:59:02.000 Fuck Le Mans. 1.00

01:59:03.000 Is that it? 1.00

01:59:04.000 Fuck yeah, man. 0.99

01:59:04.000 That's hilarious, is the El Camino of Japanese cars. 0.99

01:59:08.000 Yep.

01:59:10.000 But, you know, that was one of my first cars, so I knew how to change out the alternator, fix the clutch cable.

01:59:17.000 I can fix that one, to a point.

01:59:20.000 I would have to have a friend come in and help me if I had to rebuild an engine on it.

01:59:23.000 Yeah, I would have to go to another friend.

01:59:26.000 I can fix that.

01:59:27.000 The new cars and stuff, like, no, I'm lost.

01:59:32.000 No, no one can. 0.99

01:59:33.000 I mean, you have to really have a fucking education in computers. 0.97

01:59:36.000 The weirdest thing about cars today is, like, they're having a hard time finding chips for them. 0.98

01:59:40.000 Right.

01:59:41.000 It's like, it's hard to buy a new car.

01:59:42.000 Some of the new cars, there's, like, a backorder because they don't have chips.

01:59:46.000 Right.

01:59:47.000 Because everything relies on some sort of a centralized computer.

01:59:50.000 You know what doesn't have a chip?

01:59:53.000 Super Brat.

01:59:55.000 No.

01:59:55.000 Does that 73 Toyota with the V8, does that have a chip?

01:59:59.000 Well, no, I think the engine is just old enough to where maybe it doesn't, but I don't know.

02:00:04.000 I would have to ask my guys.

02:00:05.000 Because a lot of the new ones, they actually do have, unfortunately, they do have a computer that powers it.

02:00:09.000 Probably is, yeah.

02:00:10.000 Yeah, because if you LS swap, they have like an ECU that sort of runs it.

02:00:15.000 Most likely it is that.

02:00:19.000 Still.

02:00:20.000 Like, those older Japanese cars are the very best cars when it comes to, like, robustness.

02:00:26.000 Like, those Toyota FJs, the FJ60s, the 62s.

02:00:30.000 Yeah, my dad, back in the day, like, 1973, the original little, it's not even the Tacoma, it's just the Toyota truck.

02:00:39.000 That thing back in 1973, he had it for decades.

02:00:42.000 The thing had, like...

02:00:43.000 One million miles on it or something insane.

02:00:48.000 Yeah, they're very valuable today because of that reason.

02:00:51.000 Because people realize, like, this is kind of fucking unique that these things are that robust.

02:00:57.000 They can last for so long. 0.82

02:00:59.000 I think by the time he actually had sold it to a guy, sold it to a guy, and they actually took it to the dump, and, like, they picked it up and it broke in half because, like, the engine was still good.

02:01:10.000 500,000 miles, I think, was on it.

02:01:13.000 But the frame was gone.

02:01:15.000 Like it was, you know, foot through the floor under Fred Flintstone down the road.

02:01:21.000 Yeah, but all that stuff can be repaired.

02:01:23.000 Yeah.

02:01:24.000 It's just to be in a place like yours and to have those kind of vehicles, it's got to be very grounding for you.

02:01:31.000 You're driving around that farm and...

02:01:34.000 Yeah, you can't have a choice.

02:01:35.000 I have friends that show up and go, hey man, let's, you know, I want to go out and check out the vineyard.

02:01:39.000 And I look at their car and like, yeah.

02:01:41.000 Not in that thing.

02:01:42.000 Hop in.

02:01:43.000 Hop in.

02:01:44.000 How big is your vineyard?

02:01:45.000 How many acres is it?

02:01:46.000 I have 80 acres in southern Arizona.

02:01:49.000 I have several sites up in northern Arizona.

02:01:52.000 A 2-acre, a 3-acre, a 4-acre, a 30-acre, and a 5-acre.

02:01:59.000 And how do you pick these areas that you're going to acquire?

02:02:02.000 Available water.

02:02:04.000 Paying attention to water rights, ditch rights, groundwater rights.

02:02:09.000 And you expand based on the need?

02:02:12.000 Yeah.

02:02:15.000 Just expense.

02:02:16.000 I mean, there's a huge expense in terms of vineyards.

02:02:19.000 Just quick math.

02:02:21.000 Let's assume you own a piece of land.

02:02:23.000 And depending on where that land is, it's going to be a different price.

02:02:27.000 Like if you buy an acre of land in the Verde Valley, it's going to be $50,000 to $100,000 for an acre of empty land.

02:02:36.000 Now you've got to put power and water on it.

02:02:38.000 So if you're getting a vineyard, you're not going to do an acre.

02:02:40.000 You're going to do 20 acres or whatever.

02:02:43.000 Southern Arizona, maybe 15 grand an acre, maybe 10. So depending on where you're going to do it.

02:02:50.000 So let's say you own the land, you've already paid whatever that number is.

02:02:53.000 Now you got to make sure that there's power and water to that.

02:02:55.000 So let's say you've got it graded, you've got power and you've got water on it.

02:02:59.000 That's a huge expense just by itself, right?

02:03:02.000 Just to plant an acre of vineyards, Yeah.

02:03:20.000 Whoa.

02:03:21.000 So you're not going to see your first grape.

02:03:23.000 And even if you get your grape, now you got to wait, you know, you got to make it, you got to age it, you got to bottle it, you got to sell it.

02:03:28.000 So from your first, assuming you own the acres, and assuming you have power and water and it's been graded, and you're $30,000 in for your first, for that first planting, that first year, you're not going to see your first dollar for at least six,

02:03:44.000 seven years.

02:03:45.000 So when you acquired your first farm, was it an existing winery?

02:03:52.000 No.

02:03:53.000 The land that I planted the Judas block on, I planted that vineyard.

02:03:56.000 And I was sourcing fruit from other vineyards for a while.

02:04:00.000 How long did you think about doing that before you actually pulled the trigger?

02:04:03.000 I was kind of mulling it over from starting around 99, 2000. Wow.

02:04:08.000 And then I planted my first vineyards in 2003. Were you like, what the fuck am I doing? 0.98

02:04:14.000 Yes. 0.99

02:04:16.000 Today, in this very moment, I'm wondering what the fuck did I do and what am I doing? 0.94

02:04:22.000 How many people do you have working for you now if you have that many different farms? 0.96

02:04:26.000 Between Pucifer, the Pucifer store, all of our distribution people, our retail people, our behind-the-scenes seller workers, I'm about 110 families that we employ around Arizona.

02:04:47.000 And so when you develop a piece of land, say if you want to start and expand into a new piece of land, Who do you have?

02:04:58.000 Does the person have to relocate there?

02:05:00.000 Do you have to have someone that can commute to the spot and make sure it's running okay for the four years?

02:05:06.000 So down in southern Arizona, Jesse lives on site with his wife, and we have a couple full-time people.

02:05:13.000 And if you're farming it properly, you need seasonal work, you need people to come in, like a large number of people to come in and prune, a large number of people to come in and do...

02:05:23.000 Shoot thinning and blah, blah, blah.

02:05:24.000 And then for picking, of course, you've got that season.

02:05:28.000 You have people around that you have to do the pick and you have to work with a labor contractor to make sure that you have those numbers of people there to do that.

02:05:35.000 But annually, year round, those two or three people are on site all year round.

02:05:41.000 I would imagine that is always in the back of your head, that you have all these different moving parts going on constantly.

02:05:48.000 Yeah.

02:05:51.000 How do you rest?

02:05:53.000 Um, you just, you either do or you don't, right?

02:05:57.000 You just rest, you know?

02:06:00.000 But that's a lot of, a lot of noise, constantly.

02:06:03.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:06:06.000 That's why you watch television nights and fall asleep.

02:06:11.000 God, from the time that you started doing that, did you ever imagine that it would be what it is now?

02:06:16.000 No, I thought it was going to be a much smaller thing.

02:06:20.000 It's still a pretty small thing, but as far as all the moving parts and all the beautiful things that we've accomplished, no regrets.

02:06:31.000 I think there's a pretty cool thing we're doing.

02:06:33.000 It is very cool.

02:06:34.000 That's when I really started getting interested in you, honestly, when I found out about your vineyard.

02:06:38.000 I was like, huh. 0.99

02:06:40.000 What a fucking weird guy. 1.00

02:06:42.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:06:42.000 He's doing that? 1.00

02:06:43.000 There's a couple people in our genre, not even really our genre, just like musicians.

02:06:49.000 There's a couple people that are doing stuff.

02:06:51.000 I think Pink is involved in her wine production in some way.

02:06:57.000 But other than her and a couple people, not anybody here that has a wine label, generally speaking, is...

02:07:05.000 They're just putting their name on it, or they have somebody doing it for them, and they might be kind of involved, but they're not as involved as I am.

02:07:13.000 No.

02:07:14.000 It's so involved.

02:07:19.000 Do you ever anticipate not doing music and just doing that, or do you think you're always going to be doing everything?

02:07:24.000 I think I'll be doing everything.

02:07:25.000 I don't really see any reason to give up either one, because they can coexist.

02:07:29.000 There's definitely time for both, especially if you're Organized like I am and create those spaces for creating music and touring, but knowing that it's not up to you when it's harvest season, this is harvest season.

02:07:45.000 So I like that balance of like, I had to respond to what Mother Nature says on this front, but on the music side I can kind of have a little more flexibility and create when the spirit moves me.

02:07:58.000 It has to be a wild challenge though to figure out how to scale that.

02:08:02.000 As it was happening, how did you figure out how to make it all work?

02:08:08.000 I don't know that I have yet.

02:08:11.000 We're figuring it out still.

02:08:15.000 Wow.

02:08:18.000 It's very complex, but it makes for a very unique experience, I would imagine, in life. 0.99

02:08:28.000 Well, again, going back to, like, you started this thing, and seven years later, and then I put that wine in a bottle, and I try to forget about that bottle, to then open that bottle another ten years later, to go, oh, fuck, man, 0.97

02:08:43.000 that's... 0.97

02:08:45.000 I did that.

02:08:46.000 Yeah.

02:08:47.000 And there's a time when you should open it too, right?

02:08:50.000 Depends on the grape.

02:08:51.000 Honestly, you know.

02:08:52.000 How do you know?

02:08:53.000 You don't.

02:08:54.000 I mean, especially in an area that we're growing and the grapes that we're not quite sure about yet.

02:08:59.000 There's definitely things in wine that help it be an ageable wine that won't fall apart right away.

02:09:10.000 But, you know.

02:09:12.000 There's chemical things you can kind of figure out, like what do we think might age better.

02:09:19.000 But until you actually open that bottle 15 years later, you don't really know.

02:09:23.000 You think.

02:09:23.000 You might know, but you don't know.

02:09:26.000 Have you ever heard of a book called The Immortality Key?

02:09:29.000 There's a guy named Brian Murorescu who became obsessed with the Lucidian mysteries and the ancient Greeks who drank wine and invented democracy and invented all these different things in this like one particular area of enlightenment.

02:09:47.000 And he started studying this and found very distinct evidence that the wine, what they were calling wine back then, was wine that was mixed in with a bunch of different things.

02:10:01.000 And a lot of it was like ergot, and a lot of it was psychedelic compounds.

02:10:07.000 And through this, they've actually developed a field of study at Harvard Okay.

02:10:31.000 It would be there.

02:10:32.000 That's the cool thing about those.

02:10:34.000 There's always going to be some chamber that's going to be unearthed that nobody knew was there.

02:10:39.000 And if it's Greece or early Roman times, there's going to be wine in that thing.

02:10:45.000 That's what wine was.

02:10:46.000 There's going to be some bottles in there.

02:10:47.000 Wine was like fermented grapes, but it was mixed in with a bunch of other stuff.

02:10:52.000 That was what they used to...

02:10:54.000 When we think of wine, we think of what you make.

02:10:56.000 But what you make is not just the grapes, right?

02:11:00.000 Not just fermented grapes.

02:11:01.000 There's stuff in there.

02:11:02.000 No, no.

02:11:02.000 It's just grapes.

02:11:04.000 But you add some sort of yeast?

02:11:08.000 Well, yeah.

02:11:09.000 I mean, well, no.

02:11:10.000 The yeast already exists on the grapes.

02:11:13.000 And so our fermentation process is kick-started by the yeast that exists on those grapes.

02:11:20.000 So I just do wild ferments.

02:11:22.000 I don't add yeast.

02:11:24.000 Some instances I do, depending on the fruit coming in, and if I'm observing there's going to be maybe some problems with that particular batch of fruit.

02:11:32.000 Yeah, maybe I'll do an inoculation for that thing, but we're 95% wild ferments.

02:11:39.000 But I do also do mead, which is honey, water, yeast.

02:11:45.000 So we do that fermentation to do canned.

02:11:48.000 I think I brought you some last time.

02:11:50.000 Yes, you did.

02:11:50.000 The canned meads.

02:11:51.000 We had some at your Osteria.

02:11:53.000 It was amazing.

02:11:53.000 Yeah.

02:11:54.000 It's really wild tasting, like different than anything I think I'd ever drank before.

02:11:58.000 Yeah, but that we also were about to can it.

02:12:00.000 But I actually did a fermentation with the mead where I did one with lavender, One with hibiscus, one with bergamot, and one with star jasmine.

02:12:10.000 Just to see what that would lend as far as a floral nature in that mead. 0.89

02:12:16.000 We'll see.

02:12:17.000 We haven't actually canned it yet to see how that went.

02:12:20.000 You also have like a natural sparkling, like a white wine.

02:12:25.000 Yeah, the pet gnat we call it.

02:12:27.000 It's an ancient method of letting the wine finish fermentation in a bottle.

02:12:35.000 So it's kind of like champagne.

02:12:37.000 Yeah.

02:12:38.000 But different.

02:12:38.000 But more different tasting.

02:12:41.000 It was kind of more complex.

02:12:44.000 Yeah.

02:12:44.000 I think if you're a champagne person versus like an Italian sparkling, now I'm getting all geeky with people that are wine drinkers, but what we're doing in Arizona is far more like a filtered drink.

02:13:01.000 Ancient method, Italian sparkling, because it's Malvisia, Bianca, and Chardonnay, 50-50.

02:13:08.000 So if people are, for people listening, if you're wondering what kind of sparkling I'm doing, that's a pet nat.

02:13:14.000 It's very much an Italian sparkling approach, rather than a champagne.

02:13:20.000 The reason why I brought up the Brian Murray Rescue book, because I've always been fascinated, like if that was what wine used to be, that wine was the fermented grapes mixed in with psychedelics and all these other compounds that they're sort of discovering, when did modern,

02:13:35.000 what we think of as wine now, which is like what you make, when did that start?

02:13:41.000 No idea.

02:13:42.000 Yeah.

02:13:44.000 It could very well be some kind of way before pre-prohibition kind of stuff in Europe.

02:13:52.000 I have no idea.

02:13:53.000 But, you know, I know that there's people that have done like botanicals where they're kind of doing almost like beer, beerish, wine-ish botanical fermentations.

02:14:04.000 Various, you know, varying results, but I don't know.

02:14:07.000 I've really researched it.

02:14:08.000 Did you ever see the documentary Sour Grapes?

02:14:11.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:14:11.000 Wild shit, right? 1.00

02:14:13.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:14:13.000 That guy was amazing. 1.00

02:14:15.000 Crazy.

02:14:15.000 Yeah.

02:14:16.000 Yeah.

02:14:17.000 One of my good friends is in that documentary.

02:14:20.000 I met that gentleman who got arrested.

02:14:24.000 I met him at a wine tasting.

02:14:26.000 Me too.

02:14:27.000 Did you?

02:14:27.000 Me too, yeah.

02:14:28.000 Really?

02:14:28.000 I was with Peter Gago from Penfolds.

02:14:31.000 They were doing a whole Penfolds Australian wine dinner at the Australian consulate's house or whatever.

02:14:38.000 And that guy was sitting right here next to me.

02:14:39.000 What was his name again?

02:14:40.000 I don't remember his name.

02:14:43.000 It was right at the tip of my...

02:14:44.000 It was like an American name. 0.80

02:14:49.000 I met him because my friend is a wine dork.

02:14:53.000 And he had a birthday party.

02:14:55.000 So I went to his...

02:14:56.000 I want to say it's 2003. And we all were sitting around and they would serve this incredible food with flights of wine.

02:15:05.000 And...

02:15:07.000 They'd all brought their own wine.

02:15:09.000 They were popping corks.

02:15:11.000 Rudy.

02:15:12.000 Rudy.

02:15:13.000 Yeah, he's out now.

02:15:15.000 Yeah.

02:15:16.000 His, you know, never mind the shady shit he was up to. 0.99

02:15:20.000 That's, you know, that's why he went to prison, buddy. 1.00

02:15:22.000 But his palate and his ability to mimic those things was fucking otherworldly. 0.98

02:15:29.000 He was really good at that. 0.98

02:15:32.000 And his perception of things in that bottle, in that glass, to be able to reproduce that the way he did was exceptional.

02:15:40.000 Well, that was why I brought it up.

02:15:41.000 Like, did he reproduce it accurately?

02:15:44.000 Enough.

02:15:45.000 Enough to fool complex palates.

02:15:47.000 Just enough.

02:15:48.000 Because, you know, there's bottle variation on things.

02:15:51.000 So it could be like, oh, this one doesn't quite taste like the ones I've had before.

02:15:56.000 Right.

02:15:57.000 Right.

02:15:57.000 And that could be expressed in legitimate bottles.

02:16:00.000 Yeah.

02:16:01.000 But from 2000 what to 2000 this and different climate, different weather was different that year.

02:16:09.000 Yeah.

02:16:10.000 The funny part was like people that were totally duped.

02:16:12.000 Yeah.

02:16:14.000 What?

02:16:15.000 Yeah.

02:16:16.000 No, mine are cool.

02:16:19.000 I'm not a dupe.

02:16:20.000 Well, what's funny, the people who are self-professed wine experts was like, this one's real. 0.98

02:16:26.000 And then another guy would come along and go, this is garbage.

02:16:29.000 I'm like, well, how can there be such a varying opinion amongst people that are actually... 0.96

02:16:33.000 There's always been that kind of like, you know, you can't taste how expensive a wine is.

02:16:37.000 Well, no, of course you can't taste how expensive a wine is.

02:16:40.000 But there are guys who are really good at identifying right down to the year and the producer by what they're tasting in a glass. 0.99

02:16:49.000 And it's like, I think it's fucking, it's voodoo. 0.98

02:16:52.000 It's incredible how they can do that. 0.99

02:16:54.000 They can narrow it down.

02:16:56.000 And that's, of course, from an established region that has a history that you can kind of track it to a point through time, and having maybe had that wine. 1.00

02:17:07.000 And they have that fucking lockbox. 0.99

02:17:12.000 They can log that shit away, and it's like a steel trap of recollection of those things. 1.00

02:17:18.000 Those guys are incredible. 0.99

02:17:19.000 Yeah, I've talked to sommeliers that claim to be able to do that, and I've tried to Get it from them.

02:17:27.000 Like, what are you doing?

02:17:28.000 Like, how are you doing that?

02:17:29.000 Like, what is it about a want?

02:17:31.000 Like, you can drink it and say...

02:17:32.000 There's a checklist that they go through.

02:17:35.000 It's a very rigorous drilling of a checklist of things that they identify.

02:17:39.000 The first thing they identify, the second thing they identify.

02:17:42.000 And it's not, you know, it's more like, okay, when I walk into, when I pull into your parking lot, is this a house?

02:17:50.000 Or is this an industrial complex?

02:17:51.000 Or is this a barn?

02:17:52.000 Or is this an airport?

02:17:54.000 Well...

02:17:55.000 It's an additional complex.

02:17:56.000 Okay, now, is there parking?

02:17:58.000 Yes, there's parking. 0.95

02:17:59.000 Okay, when we walk in, is it, you know, so you're going through this checklist of just super general shit down to very specific things. 0.94

02:18:08.000 Have you tried to learn that? 1.00

02:18:10.000 Fuck no, man. 1.00

02:18:11.000 I got way too much shit in my head to deal with that shit. 1.00

02:18:14.000 But I would imagine, like, in... 1.00

02:18:17.000 Making wine, like you do.

02:18:19.000 You have to have some sort of a palate.

02:18:23.000 Yeah, but you know, at the same time, I don't have to sound like Led Zeppelin, I just have to sound like me.

02:18:28.000 So I'm only expressing, these grapes are going to tell me what they're going to do, and I'm going to try to get out of the way to make sure that these grapes grow from grapes to wine.

02:18:37.000 And I'm going to do everything that I know how to do to get out of the way to make sure that thing is that thing.

02:18:42.000 Now, me describing that thing to you like a psalm describes it, I can't do that for you.

02:18:48.000 But I can get out of the way to make it get to the thing that you can describe.

02:18:52.000 That's your job.

02:18:53.000 But when you decided to do this in 2000, you must have had some sort of an esoteric appreciation.

02:19:01.000 Yes, 100%.

02:19:03.000 I just couldn't describe that to you and I couldn't map out what year was what wine.

02:19:07.000 I could just tell you that everything about this wine is inspirational in some way.

02:19:13.000 Whether it's like the age on it, the acid structure, something, all the pistons were firing in terms of like...

02:19:21.000 All the sensory alarms that are going off in my mouth, the length of the experience, like how it's changing in the glass.

02:19:30.000 Yeah, that was very inspiring to me. 0.99

02:19:32.000 As far as actually being able to map that out for you, I'm an idiot. 0.99

02:19:36.000 I couldn't do it. 0.95

02:19:37.000 Did you go through any sort of education in terms of what is involved in the creation of a wine that you appreciate?

02:19:44.000 I just thought time in cellar, spending time in Adelaide Hills at Penfolds for a very short amount of time.

02:19:53.000 Seeing it happening around the world, going to wineries while on tour, while they're trying to time it where I can go when they're going to actually harvest today to see, what's the equipment they're using?

02:20:03.000 What are you doing?

02:20:04.000 Like, how are you doing this thing?

02:20:06.000 Like, when did that spark get ignited?

02:20:08.000 Like, what?

02:20:09.000 99. So it was like right before you started?

02:20:12.000 Mm-hmm.

02:20:13.000 So before that, were you a wine connoisseur?

02:20:16.000 Were you a wine appreciator?

02:20:17.000 I started appreciating wine maybe around 96. Really?

02:20:21.000 Yeah.

02:20:22.000 So just a few years later, you own a vineyard?

02:20:24.000 Yeah.

02:20:24.000 That's crazy.

02:20:26.000 Yeah, it just resonated.

02:20:27.000 Whatever it was, it just clicked.

02:20:29.000 It's like, you know, going back to, I was talking to Donald today, like he walked into Hickson's place on Pico back in the day.

02:20:38.000 Henry Ankins walked in the same week that I walked in to Hickson's Academy back in 95. Henry Akins is one of the best black belts I've ever met.

02:20:49.000 I can barely tie my belt.

02:20:54.000 It resonated with him.

02:20:55.000 It resonated with him.

02:20:56.000 It made sense to him.

02:20:57.000 It clicked and it went.

02:20:59.000 And there's no way you can figure out what that is to make him what he is.

02:21:04.000 I was not that guy.

02:21:05.000 I had to work harder on it.

02:21:07.000 Wine?

02:21:08.000 It was like I'd been doing it my whole life.

02:21:10.000 Almost instantly?

02:21:12.000 It made sense.

02:21:13.000 And then slowly backing up and understanding the chemistry of it, working with people to go action-reaction and logging that in to develop that constantly.

02:21:25.000 But the process, just the basic logistics of making wine made sense to me almost instantaneously.

02:21:32.000 And this was from 96?

02:21:34.000 No, my first wine that I actually was involved in making was 2004. Oh.

02:21:42.000 But in 96, when you first started getting interested in it, you went to a vineyard?

02:21:49.000 It was just dinners.

02:21:50.000 You start to all of a sudden went from a dude who grew up in a lower middle class family with parents at a teacher budget, cutting wood for the winter, to being on tour with a band and all of a sudden I can afford a bottle of wine that was more than $50.

02:22:11.000 You know, going, oh, this is cool. 0.76

02:22:13.000 Seeing all the agents and the lawyers and the fucking promoter and the manager and the fucking accountant all backstage having a nice glass of wine while I'm drinking Bud Light over here. 1.00

02:22:25.000 Going, what the fuck's that? 1.00

02:22:27.000 And I want to know. 0.99

02:22:28.000 And I grabbed a glass and tried it and went, this is a new thing.

02:22:33.000 This is something I want to know about.

02:22:35.000 And when was the first time you actually went to a...

02:22:37.000 Do you remember the first vineyard you visited while they were doing all that?

02:22:41.000 Um...

02:22:42.000 I wanna say it was like 97...

02:22:44.000 I think.

02:22:46.000 98?

02:22:47.000 It was, um...

02:22:50.000 Pegasus Bay in New Zealand.

02:22:52.000 In New Zealand?

02:22:55.000 Watching the process, watching...

02:22:57.000 No, I think they were doing Saint Blanc, I think.

02:23:01.000 It might have been Pinot.

02:23:02.000 I think it was Pinot.

02:23:04.000 But they were de-stemming, and I was watching the stemming process going, okay, okay.

02:23:09.000 Machine.

02:23:10.000 I can afford a machine.

02:23:12.000 And you just thought, one day I'm going to do that.

02:23:15.000 Yeah.

02:23:16.000 And then the wheels started getting into motion.

02:23:18.000 Yeah.

02:23:18.000 Wow.

02:23:19.000 Wow. 1.00

02:23:20.000 How many people around you are going, Maynard, what the fuck are you doing? 0.99

02:23:23.000 All of them? 0.99

02:23:27.000 All. 0.98

02:23:28.000 It just seems like such a fucking intensive... 0.99

02:23:35.000 Complicated endeavor. 0.99

02:23:37.000 Yeah.

02:23:38.000 But it's rewarding.

02:23:39.000 It's work.

02:23:41.000 You're grounding.

02:23:42.000 There's setup.

02:23:43.000 There's cleanup.

02:23:44.000 There's logistics.

02:23:45.000 Tim and I are like the logistics Nazis.

02:23:50.000 There's a way to do it to not get in your own way to understand the 16 steps.

02:23:56.000 Like today, dealing with that triangle, I kept getting my foot caught up and trying to get the leg around the head because I was getting in my own way.

02:24:03.000 I didn't shift enough to make it so that I wasn't in my own way.

02:24:07.000 In the cellar, I'm not in my own way.

02:24:09.000 I'm thinking five steps ahead, and I'm not going to put a thing down in the way that I have to move and add six steps to getting to the next step.

02:24:16.000 And this is a thing that you get better at?

02:24:18.000 I get better at with every harvest, but I was already naturally inclined that way as far as logistic.

02:24:25.000 Tetris is my thing.

02:24:27.000 Hmm.

02:24:28.000 Wow.

02:24:30.000 That's wild because there's nothing like that in my mind that I'm fascinated by, that I would want to go and start developing a company that makes these things.

02:24:40.000 It seems like it's just so rare that something like a light bulb goes off and you're like, I need a wine press.

02:24:49.000 Yeah.

02:24:53.000 Wow.

02:24:55.000 So when you, like, crack open a bottle of wine today, do you ever open one and go, I should have waited?

02:25:04.000 I mean, yeah, there's those instances.

02:25:05.000 Or I open up some of my stuff from before and go, yeah, I fucked that up.

02:25:10.000 This is a good bottle.

02:25:11.000 It's okay.

02:25:12.000 But I know that I could have done better on this bottle.

02:25:15.000 And what would you have done to do better?

02:25:17.000 Well, it depends on the grade.

02:25:18.000 It depends on what I did.

02:25:19.000 And it depends on the thing.

02:25:20.000 But, you know, there's adjustments that I've made over the years that have made it so that there's a higher percentage of success for that year.

02:25:30.000 What are those variables?

02:25:31.000 It all depends on the grape, depends on how we picked it, depends on what it did.

02:25:37.000 Is it too much oak?

02:25:38.000 Is it not enough oak?

02:25:40.000 Oak in the casket?

02:25:42.000 When you're putting stuff in barrels, is it too new?

02:25:45.000 Is there too much flavor?

02:25:47.000 Am I imparting too much flavor on the wine?

02:25:50.000 Going back and tasting some of the stuff I earlier did, it's because they were new.

02:25:53.000 I just bought the barrels.

02:25:55.000 So there's a lot of oak on some of the earlier wines that I did.

02:25:59.000 It's not there now because now their older barrels are no longer imparting that flavor of oak.

02:26:05.000 In hindsight, I can't change it.

02:26:08.000 It's done.

02:26:09.000 But I might have...

02:26:11.000 Aged the barrels?

02:26:12.000 Yeah.

02:26:13.000 Get a couple new, but buy some neutral ones from somebody instead, so that there was just a kiss of oak on it rather than a lot of new oak.

02:26:21.000 So this is a company that specializes in creating barrels?

02:26:25.000 No, you just go to some of the other wineries that are cycling through some of their barrels and you can buy used barrels from reputable wineries.

02:26:32.000 I was going to ask you next, do you reuse your barrels?

02:26:35.000 I use as much as I possibly can because I don't necessarily want the oak influence on the wine.

02:26:41.000 Does the wine that was in the barrel influence future wines?

02:26:45.000 No, you're rinsing it out pretty good.

02:26:46.000 You're cleaning them out.

02:26:48.000 What do you clean it with?

02:26:49.000 Steam.

02:26:50.000 So there's no chemicals, no nothing, just water?

02:26:53.000 Steam and water, yeah.

02:26:54.000 Wow. 0.99

02:26:56.000 How the fuck do you have time for all this? 0.99

02:26:58.000 I just don't understand this. 0.98

02:27:01.000 Logistical time management.

02:27:03.000 I understand, but I don't understand where it's coming from.

02:27:05.000 I'm looking at a clock.

02:27:07.000 I'm going, okay, this goes around.

02:27:09.000 There's 12 of those, and then there's another 12. Like, where the fuck is the time? 0.98

02:27:12.000 Yeah, organizational skills. 0.97

02:27:14.000 Do you ever anticipate doing anything else with this sort of...

02:27:19.000 The amount that's involved?

02:27:21.000 No, I think because when it comes to...

02:27:24.000 Tim and I are probably going to develop a gin, but that will be 100% us just coming up with a label, coming up with a concept, coming up with maybe a recipe, and then handing that to some...

02:27:36.000 I don't even know what gin is.

02:27:38.000 I know it's an alcohol.

02:27:39.000 I have no idea what you make it out of.

02:27:41.000 Well, depending on the gin, it can be grain-based, but I'm probably going to go more for a molasses-based spirit.

02:27:51.000 Molasses?

02:27:51.000 You ferment the molasses to give you the spirit.

02:27:54.000 Is that a common thing for gin?

02:27:57.000 Some of my favorite ones are.

02:27:58.000 A lot of it ends up being more the grain, you know, grain-based, but there's also people that have done honey.

02:28:05.000 Honey gin?

02:28:06.000 Yeah.

02:28:06.000 So what gin is, like, when you're saying gin, I know it's an alcohol.

02:28:11.000 Juniper is the key ingredient to it.

02:28:13.000 To make it a gin, juniper is one of the botanicals that comes into either during the distillation process or post-distillation, juniper is involved.

02:28:23.000 But you can also do other things and other botanicals and things to make it a more unique gin.

02:28:29.000 Now, what about tequila?

02:28:32.000 Tequila is agave, but I don't know the process on tequila that much.

02:28:38.000 I'd like to know, but I think gin is going to be more accessible to me because just the process of over-farming and tearing up land, if I can put in agave, I don't know what that sounds like.

02:28:52.000 Over-farming?

02:28:53.000 Yeah, I've heard rumors of just fucking tearing through Mexico and fucking up entire landscapes to deal with the agave thing. 0.97

02:29:02.000 It's a controversial subject. 0.95

02:29:04.000 Oh, really?

02:29:04.000 I think so.

02:29:06.000 What I was reading about...

02:29:07.000 I'm trying to hurt it and I was like, I don't want to hear about it right now. 0.99

02:29:11.000 I got other shit to think about. 0.98

02:29:13.000 I was reading about the health aspects of tequila. 0.99

02:29:18.000 That tequila actually has a probiotic benefit to it and that it has less sugar in it.

02:29:24.000 So people find it to be more healthy than drinking other forms of alcohol.

02:29:30.000 Maybe.

02:29:31.000 I mean, you know, I suppose me not having five of those one night is probably not the smartest thing.

02:29:37.000 Yeah.

02:29:37.000 Waking up the next day going, not feeling very probiotic.

02:29:40.000 Right.

02:29:41.000 But, you know, if you exercise restraint, which I'm not sure I know that word, but, yeah, restraint.

02:29:49.000 Do you do anything to recover from hangovers specifically?

02:29:52.000 Do you have sort of a routine?

02:29:55.000 Water.

02:29:55.000 Just a lot of water.

02:29:57.000 The sauna.

02:29:59.000 There's some stuff you'll drink.

02:30:01.000 Electrolytes.

02:30:02.000 Electrolytes.

02:30:02.000 I do the old school British Baraka if I have to.

02:30:07.000 What's that?

02:30:08.000 It's like a fizzy, like vitamin C, multivitamin fizzy thing you drink with water.

02:30:13.000 It dissolves in the water.

02:30:14.000 So it's just a vitamin sort of...

02:30:16.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:30:18.000 Oh, we have some.

02:30:19.000 There it is.

02:30:19.000 Does that work?

02:30:20.000 Yeah.

02:30:21.000 Well, I mean, the best thing for a hangover is drinking heavily the night before.

02:30:26.000 Then you'll for sure get a hangover.

02:30:28.000 If you want to avoid the hangover, don't drink heavily the night before.

02:30:32.000 It just is what it is.

02:30:33.000 It just is what it is.

02:30:34.000 So, you know, just exercise restraint and drink a lot of water when you're drinking.

02:30:42.000 Like, if I'm going to have the tequilas, I have to force myself to be double-fisted. 0.99

02:30:45.000 Mm-hmm.

02:30:47.000 Water in one hand, drink in the other, so that way I'm hydrating as I'm drinking.

02:30:52.000 Right. 0.98

02:30:53.000 Because a lot of it's the dehydration that's fucking with you.

02:30:57.000 So that's why the electrolytes in the next morning help.

02:31:01.000 And just, you know, pounding water.

02:31:04.000 During the process.

02:31:05.000 During the process and the next day.

02:31:06.000 Resign yourself to the fact you're going to pee a lot.

02:31:08.000 Yes.

02:31:09.000 Yeah.

02:31:10.000 Yes.

02:31:10.000 Do you have a hard time keeping up with the demand?

02:31:13.000 Because I would imagine you can only grow so much wine.

02:31:17.000 Yeah, we're doing great with respect to that.

02:31:20.000 We're at the balance of what we can produce and what we sell.

02:31:24.000 It's a nice spot to be in.

02:31:27.000 But do you feel pressure to expand?

02:31:30.000 We want to expand because a healthy wine region has a healthy bulk wine market.

02:31:38.000 So if I can make wine out of all those grapes, but I only need 80% of it, I sell my 20% of juice to other winemakers just so they can supplement their programs.

02:31:50.000 That's a healthy winemaking environment.

02:31:55.000 You're familiar with the wine The Prisoner?

02:31:57.000 No.

02:31:58.000 You know The Prisoner?

02:31:59.000 Oh, the one that has the mug shots on it?

02:32:02.000 No, it's got a guy in chains.

02:32:04.000 It's a very popular bottle of wine called The Prisoner.

02:32:10.000 For the most part, that was all bulk wine.

02:32:13.000 That's a California project that took off, that made fucking distributors and people a shitload of money because the person was just basically going around initially to just get bulk wine from all these different houses that had bulk wine that put a cool blend together,

02:32:29.000 and it was priced perfectly, and wholesalers made a shitload of money on that thing because it hit. 0.91

02:32:39.000 But it was bulk wine.

02:32:40.000 It wasn't some weirdo like me in a cellar making wine.

02:32:45.000 Hmm.

02:32:48.000 So that's a person that doesn't actually even own a vineyard?

02:32:51.000 They're just getting...

02:32:52.000 There's a lot of that.

02:32:53.000 Like in California, there's people that don't own a vineyard, don't even own a winery.

02:32:57.000 They're just putting together in a house.

02:32:59.000 They're producing a blend of wine from bulk wines and presenting you a bottle.

02:33:06.000 Which is totally fine because it's...

02:33:09.000 As long as it's labeled properly, that's a California red wine.

02:33:12.000 Okay, that's fine.

02:33:14.000 How do they even know what it's going to taste like?

02:33:16.000 They're putting together, because they're only buying it if it goes with the blend.

02:33:21.000 So they're getting samples, samples, samples, blending, and then picking the samples, the blend, and buying that wine in bulk and putting it together.

02:33:30.000 Is this the most you've ever talked about wine in the two and a half hour period?

02:33:34.000 No.

02:33:35.000 I can go.

02:33:36.000 I can go for a long time. 1.00

02:33:37.000 I can bore the fuck. 1.00

02:33:38.000 I can put you all to sleep. 1.00

02:33:39.000 No, it's fascinating.

02:33:41.000 I'm fascinated by it.

02:33:42.000 I'm fascinated by anything that anybody is deeply interested in.

02:33:46.000 And it's clear that you're deeply interested in this.

02:33:48.000 Yeah, so to answer your question, I wouldn't mind expanding the vineyard so that I have flexibility because what happens if I get hail and it takes out half my vineyards?

02:33:56.000 If I have way more vineyards than I need, then I can kind of, in that year, I can kind of massage what I have Maybe use bulk wine from the year before to supplement into a blend.

02:34:06.000 But if I've made all the grapes from the vineyard we didn't get, whether that wine is always valuable to somebody else to sell as a bulk product.

02:34:14.000 Hale can take out half of your product?

02:34:16.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

02:34:17.000 It fucking... 1.00

02:34:18.000 It sucks. 1.00

02:34:20.000 Is there a way you can mitigate that? 0.99

02:34:22.000 Put tarps over it or something?

02:34:23.000 Hail netting, yeah.

02:34:24.000 Hail netting.

02:34:25.000 Yeah, so it looks like bird netting, but it's hail net.

02:34:27.000 So it serves two purposes.

02:34:30.000 It combats the hail and birds.

02:34:35.000 Jesus Christ.

02:34:35.000 It's expensive and looks weird.

02:34:39.000 There it is.

02:34:40.000 Hail.

02:34:40.000 Yep.

02:34:41.000 Fuck. 1.00

02:34:42.000 Look at that. 1.00

02:34:43.000 And that just destroys everything.

02:34:45.000 Well, those vines are probably, if they're not dead completely, they're definitely not getting any grapes off those vines for the next three years.

02:34:51.000 Oh my god.

02:34:53.000 Yeah.

02:34:54.000 And it could very well be that those vines are done.

02:34:56.000 Done, done.

02:34:59.000 I'm just overwhelmed by the amount of commitment that's involved in this.

02:35:02.000 I start thinking about my own head, like how I would handle this.

02:35:06.000 I'm like, I just...

02:35:07.000 I couldn't.

02:35:08.000 Tequila.

02:35:10.000 Something.

02:35:12.000 Hey, we got hail. 1.00

02:35:13.000 Fuck. 1.00

02:35:17.000 Listen, man, you balance it out. 1.00

02:35:18.000 I don't know how you do it.

02:35:20.000 I think we kind of got a better perspective on what's involved through this conversation, but I don't know how you do it.

02:35:28.000 It's a lot.

02:35:29.000 Well, I don't do it by myself.

02:35:31.000 You have to delegate and you have to trust people.

02:35:37.000 If somebody wants to buy your wine, what's the best retail outlet?

02:35:41.000 Caduceus.org is our website.

02:35:43.000 You can go buy it off of Caduceus.org.

02:35:45.000 We ship to most states.

02:35:48.000 We're only in distribution in maybe 12 or 14 states.

02:35:51.000 You couldn't get it at a grocery store unless we're actually in that state.

02:35:55.000 Texas, we're in stores here in Texas, Colorado, Arizona, California.

02:36:02.000 But the best way to get it is just to order it offline.

02:36:05.000 All right, that's what I'm going to do.

02:36:06.000 And if you want to review, you have to ask Drew Dober because I just sent him some wine.

02:36:11.000 Oh, really?

02:36:11.000 You sent some to Drew?

02:36:12.000 Yeah.

02:36:12.000 I love that dude.

02:36:13.000 Yeah, we had a bet.

02:36:15.000 In his last fight, I said, if you win the fight, I'll send you wine.

02:36:19.000 If you lose the fight, you have to wear a shirt in public.

02:36:22.000 A Caduceus shirt?

02:36:23.000 Any shirt.

02:36:24.000 Just any fucking shirt. 0.99

02:36:25.000 Well, if I was Bill I Kim, I wouldn't wear shirts in public either. 1.00

02:36:27.000 No shit. 1.00

02:36:27.000 I'm so jealous of this fucking... 1.00

02:36:31.000 That was the Terrence McKinney fight, right? 1.00

02:36:33.000 Yeah.

02:36:33.000 That was a wild fight.

02:36:34.000 It was a good fight.

02:36:35.000 That was a crazy one.

02:36:37.000 That Terrence McKinney is wild.

02:36:39.000 Did you see the Sugar Sean fight?

02:36:42.000 Yes, I did.

02:36:43.000 The look on his face at the end, I was like, he normally runs his mouth pretty good as a good old Arizona boy, but he had that look on his face like, Did I win that?

02:36:52.000 Did I win?

02:36:53.000 Well, he was very honest.

02:36:55.000 He said, I'm gonna have to watch this afterwards to see if I actually won it.

02:36:59.000 A lot of people were shocked.

02:37:03.000 There's a video of Khabib watching the decision.

02:37:06.000 And Khabib's like, how?

02:37:08.000 How?

02:37:09.000 How?

02:37:10.000 How?

02:37:10.000 How did he win?

02:37:11.000 How?

02:37:11.000 Yeah, I was right there 50. I wasn't sure because I thought the other guy won.

02:37:17.000 But I think the bigger takeaway is that...

02:37:23.000 He was in it.

02:37:24.000 He was certainly in it against Piotr Jan.

02:37:26.000 He was a former champion, one of the best in the division by far, the number one contender.

02:37:30.000 It was a very close fight.

02:37:31.000 And he definitely hurt Piotr in multiple occasions.

02:37:35.000 Caught him with that big knee, rocked him.

02:37:37.000 The question is, how much is the takedown worth?

02:37:41.000 How much is control worth?

02:37:43.000 Right.

02:37:44.000 I assume that when I saw all the takedowns, then Jan won.

02:37:48.000 Because there's a lot of takedowns.

02:37:50.000 Yeah, but takedowns without damage.

02:37:52.000 It's like, what is that value?

02:37:54.000 I mean, and I'm not denying that I thought Piotr Jan won, because I did think he won at the end of it.

02:38:00.000 But takedowns without damage versus stand-up with damage.

02:38:03.000 Because Sugar landed more strikes standing and had big moments. 1.00

02:38:09.000 Jan had some big moments, too.

02:38:11.000 One big left hand that rocked him.

02:38:12.000 The question is, like...

02:38:14.000 How much is...

02:38:16.000 How valuable are those takedowns?

02:38:19.000 And how valuable is that top game and that control?

02:38:22.000 And that's way out of my, you know...

02:38:24.000 The problem...

02:38:25.000 There's several problems.

02:38:26.000 But one of the problems is that I feel, and I've said this ad nauseam, that I feel that we're very limited by this 10-9 This 10-point must-scoring system.

02:38:35.000 Because someone can win a round 10-9 and it can be a very close round.

02:38:40.000 And someone can win a round clearly and it can be 10-9.

02:38:44.000 And that doesn't make any sense to me.

02:38:46.000 And I feel like the system is designed for boxing and it's a good system for boxing.

02:38:53.000 I don't think it's a good system for MMA. I think MMA needs a much more comprehensive system.

02:38:59.000 Like, if a guy can hold you down with no damage at all for three minutes, versus a guy who holds you down and damages you for 30 seconds, what's worth more?

02:39:09.000 You know, what hits you with three or four good hard shots, is that worth more?

02:39:12.000 Or is, like, the predominance of a round, like, if you spend the majority of a round on top of a guy, even if you're not damaging him, how much is that worth?

02:39:22.000 How much is a leg kick worth?

02:39:24.000 How much is a submission worth?

02:39:25.000 Like, a submission attempt?

02:39:28.000 I think we need a much more comprehensive system.

02:39:32.000 It's not a 10-point must.

02:39:33.000 I don't think that's the right system for MMA. I think it should be a completely different system.

02:39:38.000 We just sort of adopted the boxing system. 0.97

02:39:41.000 So the first round of Aljamain Sterling and TJ Dillashaw, that is a fucking dominant round. 0.98

02:39:47.000 Like, what is that? 0.98

02:39:48.000 Is it a 10-7?

02:39:49.000 Is it a 10-6?

02:39:50.000 I mean, that's an all-Algermaine round. 0.83

02:39:52.000 He beat the shit out of TJ Dillashaw. 0.99

02:39:55.000 Took him down, dominated him, took his back, beat the fuck out of him. 1.00

02:39:59.000 Like, what's that? 0.99

02:40:00.000 How do you score that round?

02:40:01.000 And, you know, how could...

02:40:03.000 How could that be better scored with a better system?

02:40:08.000 I think there's definitely room.

02:40:09.000 I feel like that UFC was probably my top five UFCs ever.

02:40:15.000 It was amazing.

02:40:16.000 We watched it.

02:40:18.000 Jamie hooked it up from my iPad to a television through an HDMI connection in the O2 Arena.

02:40:25.000 We're in London.

02:40:26.000 We just did the show.

02:40:27.000 We had no idea what happened, luckily.

02:40:29.000 We got off stage, ordered food, and Jamie set up the iPad to a big screen TV that was in the room.

02:40:35.000 We were all in there.

02:40:36.000 There was like 20 of us in there watching. 0.99

02:40:38.000 It was fucking incredible. 0.99

02:40:39.000 It was incredible. 1.00

02:40:40.000 He'll sue you.

02:40:41.000 No, he wanted me to.

02:40:42.000 He gave me the link to it.

02:40:45.000 I have a Fight Pass membership.

02:40:47.000 But that's how we watched it.

02:40:49.000 But it was such a good fight.

02:40:51.000 And then watching Islam and Charles Oliveira, that was what a fight that was. 0.72

02:40:59.000 Islam Makhachev must have the most incredible squeeze. 0.99

02:41:04.000 His squeeze must be out of this world.

02:41:07.000 Because you see how quick Charles tapped once he clamped that on him.

02:41:10.000 I mean, poof!

02:41:12.000 He had all the points covered, and he just, like, I've been done.

02:41:16.000 That dude is on another level.

02:41:19.000 I mean, he is the truth.

02:41:22.000 I was always impressed with him, but, I mean, I was saying, leading up to him getting a shot at the world title, he's the boogeyman of that division.

02:41:30.000 He was the guy that everybody was saying, like, is the most dominant of all the contenders.

02:41:35.000 And then when he tapped Dober, that was a big one. 0.97

02:41:37.000 When he tapped Dan Hooker, that was a big one, too.

02:41:39.000 It's like the way he's tapping these guys who are these world-class fighters. 0.98

02:41:43.000 He's just fucking running through them. 0.93

02:41:45.000 But the fact that he got on Oliveira and mounted him and then submitted him with an arm triangle, head and arm choke like that. 0.99

02:41:54.000 Yeah, that's a statement.

02:41:56.000 He submitted the guy with the most submissions in the history of the sport. 0.97

02:42:00.000 And the way he did it was just, he was so fucking methodical and dominant. 0.93

02:42:05.000 And Oliveira tested him. 0.97

02:42:07.000 I mean, he got out of bad positions in the first round, got back up to his feet. 0.99

02:42:12.000 Hit him with some good shots, but Makachev, he's the fucking truth. 1.00

02:42:18.000 Interesting that he's going to fight Volkanovski next. 0.99

02:42:21.000 That's kind of a crazy thing for Volkanovski to go right up to 55 from 45. Yeah.

02:42:28.000 I don't know. 0.93

02:42:29.000 I'm interested in that, because Volkanovski is fucking amazing.

02:42:34.000 The fights with Holloway, especially the last fight with Holloway, we see the evolution of his game, and he's gotten so much better. 0.51

02:42:43.000 Yeah, it's interesting.

02:42:45.000 Don't you have an iPad on stage with you sometimes?

02:42:47.000 Oh, yeah.

02:42:47.000 While you're playing or watching the fights?

02:42:49.000 Yeah.

02:42:51.000 Because I want to know.

02:42:53.000 Of course, it's fighter-specific.

02:42:56.000 There's people that I definitely pay attention to more than other fighters just because I want to see what happens because, you know...

02:43:03.000 I back these people's career.

02:43:05.000 I just want to know what's going to go on.

02:43:08.000 I don't watch every UFC in that context, but if I know Thug Rose is fighting, I'll iPad on the stage.

02:43:17.000 I've got to see.

02:43:17.000 Nate Diaz, I'm going to have the iPad up there for sure.

02:43:23.000 No joke.

02:43:24.000 I think that's hilarious. 0.99

02:43:26.000 You're in the middle of a fucking wild concert and you've got an iPad sitting on the stage. 0.99

02:43:34.000 I know, it's awful. 0.99

02:43:36.000 No, it's not awful.

02:43:37.000 They do it like, come on, we're here to watch this, you know, watch the show.

02:43:39.000 I go, so you get an extra show.

02:43:41.000 You get a thing that's like, not just us doing our thing.

02:43:44.000 I'm going to deliver what I'm going to deliver. 0.88

02:43:46.000 I'm not going to not sing the song, but I'm going to run over here and you should be laughing at the fact that I have this weird fucking obsession with UFC for your show. 0.88

02:43:55.000 Do the people know? 0.89

02:43:57.000 No, not mostly.

02:43:58.000 They know now.

02:43:59.000 They know now.

02:44:01.000 What's that weird glow?

02:44:03.000 What?

02:44:04.000 Why does he keep looking down there where that speaker is?

02:44:06.000 Is he got a teleprompter?

02:44:09.000 Oh, no!

02:44:11.000 Get up, get up, get up, get up!

02:44:12.000 Have you ever had a moment where something shocking happens and you react?

02:44:16.000 Yeah.

02:44:17.000 Yeah.

02:44:18.000 I can't remember the fight, but I have the video somewhere.

02:44:21.000 I'll send it to you.

02:44:26.000 Backstage.

02:44:26.000 Yeah.

02:44:27.000 Do you ever get a chance to go see many of them live?

02:44:31.000 UFCs?

02:44:31.000 Yeah.

02:44:32.000 Only when it's like maybe Arizona.

02:44:34.000 Yeah.

02:44:35.000 Have you been to some of the ones?

02:44:36.000 Did you go to the one with where Olivera fought?

02:44:41.000 Who did he fight?

02:44:42.000 Where he won?

02:44:43.000 Justin Gaethje?

02:44:44.000 I missed that.

02:44:45.000 I think I was out of town for that one. 1.00

02:44:46.000 The one I saw was I was screaming like a Fucking idiot, man. 1.00

02:44:53.000 That was front row. 1.00

02:44:54.000 And it was when Diaz caught Sterling.

02:45:01.000 Is that Sterling?

02:45:02.000 No.

02:45:03.000 He didn't win.

02:45:04.000 He got him down and he started a showboat.

02:45:06.000 Oh, Leon Edwards.

02:45:07.000 Edwards. 1.00

02:45:08.000 I'm like, dude, finish the fucking fight. 1.00

02:45:10.000 I'm like, I'm on my feet screaming my fucking head off. 1.00

02:45:14.000 Finish it! 1.00

02:45:16.000 Because, you know, and he didn't.

02:45:18.000 Well, easier said than done.

02:45:20.000 Yeah, I know. 0.99

02:45:20.000 But I was like, you know, armchair fucking dude down on the ground. 0.99

02:45:25.000 I was just so excited for him that he caught him. 0.98

02:45:27.000 Yeah.

02:45:27.000 And he was down for a second.

02:45:29.000 We should go to one live.

02:45:30.000 It was in my mind.

02:45:31.000 Let's go to one live when I'm not working.

02:45:33.000 Okay.

02:45:33.000 We should come see one at the Apex Center.

02:45:36.000 The Apex Center's great.

02:45:37.000 It's the best.

02:45:38.000 We went to...

02:45:40.000 We did a combat sports trifecta.

02:45:43.000 We saw Abu Dhabi.

02:45:45.000 We saw Gordon Ryan compete in Abu Dhabi.

02:45:47.000 Then we went to the UFC and saw Corey Sanhagen and Yong Sedong at the Apex Center.

02:45:53.000 And then we went to see Canelo Alvarez versus Triple G in a boxing fight.

02:45:58.000 It was an incredible day.

02:45:59.000 How do you think Silva's gonna do?

02:46:01.000 Against Jake Paul?

02:46:02.000 Well, it's interesting.

02:46:05.000 Jake Paul is a big, heavy-handed, young guy.

02:46:09.000 And if Jake Paul was just a boxer and not a YouTuber, I think people would take him very seriously.

02:46:14.000 Right.

02:46:15.000 And I think people, for whatever reason, think that he's— I think you have to take him seriously.

02:46:19.000 You have to take him very seriously.

02:46:20.000 He knocked out Tyron Woodley with one punch. 1.00

02:46:22.000 He's legit as fuck. 0.99

02:46:24.000 Anderson Silva is one of the greatest combat sports athletes of all time, one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time. 0.99

02:46:31.000 And as a boxer, even though he's 47 years old, he did beat Julio Cesar Chavez Jr., who was a legitimate former world champion, and he knocked out Tito Ortiz to show you that he's got power.

02:46:43.000 Obviously Tito's not a boxer.

02:46:45.000 I'm curious.

02:46:47.000 I'm curious.

02:46:48.000 I don't know what's going to happen.

02:46:49.000 47 is old.

02:46:51.000 Because for me, there's the UFC and then there's Anderson Silva.

02:46:55.000 Yeah.

02:46:55.000 So I'm very precious about Anderson as a fan.

02:47:00.000 Well, I was very fortunate to be able to commentate against while, excuse me, when Anderson was competing in his prime against the best in the world.

02:47:10.000 When Anderson was in his prime, he was a magician.

02:47:15.000 He was spectacular.

02:47:16.000 To see him fight in his prime, like when he knocked out Vitor with that front kick to the face, when Anderson beat Chael Sonnen with a triangle in the last round, a fight that he was losing, when he just beat the shit out of him in the rematch, Anderson during his prime was something extraordinary.

02:47:34.000 He really...

02:47:36.000 People forget because you see him towards the decline after he got his leg broken by Chris Weidman in that fight.

02:47:44.000 He was never really the same again.

02:47:46.000 But if you remember...

02:47:48.000 You should look at a fighter in terms of what they were when they were at their best.

02:47:55.000 And Anderson, at his best, was one of the greatest, if not the greatest, of all time.

02:47:59.000 He was amazing. 0.96

02:48:01.000 He was fucking amazing when he was in his prime.

02:48:03.000 Yeah, I had friends that would watch the fights with me, and they're going, what is he doing? 0.93

02:48:07.000 Like, he's not doing anything. 0.52

02:48:08.000 The first time I go, he is testing every single fucking boundary right now to figure out what he's going to do in the second round. 0.88

02:48:17.000 He's downloading data. 0.96

02:48:19.000 Yeah, downloading data.

02:48:20.000 I'm going to go like this, see what he does.

02:48:21.000 I'm going to go like this, see what he does.

02:48:22.000 I'm going to go like this, see what he does.

02:48:23.000 He was extraordinary.

02:48:26.000 And then second round, boink.

02:48:27.000 I was a fan of his before he ever got to the UFC. And I remember there was a betting line when he was fighting Chris Lieben.

02:48:35.000 And I was like, whatever the betting line is, put the fucking house on the Brazilian. 0.99

02:48:38.000 I'm like, you have to understand what you're about to see. 0.99

02:48:41.000 Like, this guy is on many different levels.

02:48:44.000 And he was in his prime.

02:48:45.000 Because I was watching him compete.

02:48:47.000 He was initially competing in Japan.

02:48:49.000 And then he started competing in London, in England.

02:48:53.000 Was it Cage Rage, I think it was called?

02:48:56.000 That promotion was when he came into his own.

02:48:59.000 That's when he fought Lee Murray.

02:49:00.000 That's when he fought George Oliveira.

02:49:03.000 He was in his prime then.

02:49:06.000 And that's when he came to the UFC right after that.

02:49:08.000 I'm like, when he fought Tony Fricklin and he hit him with this preposterous upward elbow.

02:49:14.000 He was so good.

02:49:15.000 And I was like, we're getting Anderson when he came into his own, and that's when he entered into the UFC. So people got to see this just perfect striker.

02:49:25.000 He was so good.

02:49:27.000 But he's 47. When I'm looking at this fight coming up, I'm like, hmm, I don't know.

02:49:33.000 He's also 47, and I don't know what kind of testing they're doing.

02:49:37.000 That changes everything.

02:49:39.000 That changes the whole world.

02:49:41.000 Because if he's on all sorts of Mexican supplements, then we could see a turning back of the clock. 0.95

02:49:47.000 Extra mustache?

02:49:48.000 Yes.

02:49:49.000 Could have an extra mustache.

02:49:50.000 He's most likely going to be supplementing.

02:49:55.000 I wouldn't imagine he's not.

02:49:57.000 At 47, I wouldn't imagine he's not taking something.

02:50:01.000 If you're taking something in your 47, that is not what we think of as 47. That is 47 with a body that responds like a 30-year-old.

02:50:09.000 Is that the case?

02:50:10.000 I don't know.

02:50:11.000 Is that enough?

02:50:11.000 I don't know.

02:50:12.000 I'm interested.

02:50:13.000 I'm in.

02:50:13.000 I'm gonna watch it.

02:50:15.000 I'm definitely gonna get it.

02:50:16.000 You know?

02:50:17.000 Even if it's on stage.

02:50:19.000 Yeah.

02:50:19.000 Right over here.

02:50:20.000 Yeah.

02:50:21.000 I didn't do that.

02:50:22.000 I couldn't do that.

02:50:23.000 With comedy, I can't do that.

02:50:25.000 True.

02:50:25.000 I can't.

02:50:26.000 But afterwards, I'm like, I just got to stay away from my phone and get to the iPad and watch it.

02:50:32.000 Yeah.

02:50:33.000 But it's an amazing time to be a fan of combat sports.

02:50:38.000 There's so much going on.

02:50:39.000 I agree.

02:50:42.000 Yeah, almost too much.

02:50:43.000 Well, yeah.

02:50:45.000 I love that the ADCC has gone to the level that it's gone.

02:50:49.000 Yeah, we saw that Thomas& Mack was sold out.

02:50:52.000 12,000 people in Vegas.

02:50:54.000 The arena was packed to the gills and it was nuts.

02:50:58.000 The energy in the place was incredible.

02:51:01.000 And to be there, like, to have it this popular, it's not a coincidence that it's this popular while Gordon Ryan is at his peak, who is the greatest jiu-jitsu athlete of all time, at 27 years old, which is so crazy to say.

02:51:13.000 He looks amazing.

02:51:14.000 And I talked to John before you got there today, and John and I were talking, and he's like, he's not even in his prime.

02:51:20.000 He's like, he's not even at 100%.

02:51:21.000 He's still getting over his stomach issues.

02:51:23.000 He's like, but Gordon Ryan at 70% destroys everybody.

02:51:26.000 Yeah.

02:51:27.000 And he's getting better. 0.96

02:51:29.000 It was impressive to see because most of the things that he was doing were very simple, methodical, cutting off all your fucking exits and trapping you into a thing. 0.98

02:51:44.000 Nothing fancy. 0.97

02:51:45.000 Just...

02:51:48.000 This.

02:51:48.000 Now this is mine.

02:51:49.000 Now this is mine.

02:51:50.000 Now this is mine.

02:51:51.000 Now this is mine.

02:51:52.000 And you're done.

02:51:53.000 We were talking to him before the finals.

02:51:55.000 We were hanging out outside.

02:51:57.000 And when he was fighting Nicky Rod in the finals, he said, I'm just going to give him my leg.

02:52:02.000 Because the only way he can win is in a wrestling match.

02:52:04.000 He goes, I'm just going to give him my leg and make him do jiu-jitsu with me.

02:52:08.000 And so he walks out there and he just kind of gives him his leg.

02:52:11.000 Nicky grabs him, takes him down.

02:52:13.000 Gordon grabs ahold of his leg, laces it up, taps. 0.99

02:52:16.000 And I'm like, holy shit! 0.99

02:52:18.000 Like, that's exactly how he called it. 0.99

02:52:20.000 I mean, he was so calm in the way he described it.

02:52:23.000 I'm just gonna give him my leg.

02:52:26.000 He did it.

02:52:27.000 Have you been to an Abu Dhabi live?

02:52:29.000 Two years from now, let's go.

02:52:31.000 I think they're going to do it again in Vegas.

02:52:33.000 If that's the case, let's go.

02:52:35.000 It'll be worth it.

02:52:36.000 It's pretty fucking amazing. 0.98

02:52:38.000 And it's pretty amazing as a jiu-jitsu lover to be able to see jiu-jitsu get the attention that it deserves and to see this fucking rabid fan base. 0.98

02:52:46.000 Because basically everyone in the audience trains.

02:52:48.000 So there's like 12,000 people who are jiu-jitsu trainers and fans and practitioners that are there enjoying that.

02:52:55.000 Yeah.

02:52:57.000 Alright, we got a date.

02:52:58.000 Alright.

02:52:58.000 Two years from now.

02:52:59.000 Yes. 1.00

02:53:00.000 Maynard, you're the fucking man. 1.00

02:53:01.000 Thank you, sir. 1.00

02:53:02.000 Thank you very much.

02:53:04.000 Give people information on all the stuff that we talked about earlier for everything you got going on, the pay-per-views.

02:53:11.000 Yeah.

02:53:13.000 Pusserfortv.com.

02:53:14.000 There it is.

02:53:15.000 And the tour dates.

02:53:17.000 Yeah, we're still going, man.

02:53:18.000 This is going to be all the way up to Thanksgiving.

02:53:23.000 There it is.

02:53:24.000 Pussiver.com forward slash tour.

02:53:26.000 Yep.

02:53:26.000 Alright, brother.

02:53:27.000 Thank you very much.

02:53:27.000 Thank you.

02:53:28.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 25, 2022

Joe Rogan Experience #1887 - Maynard James Keenan

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