The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1967

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 We're up.

00:00:13.000 What's up?

00:00:13.000 How are you, man?

00:00:14.000 Pleasure to meet you.

00:00:15.000 Thanks for having me on, Joe.

00:00:16.000 It's a pleasure to meet you.

00:00:17.000 Hey, my pleasure.

00:00:17.000 You're a funny motherfucker, man.

00:00:19.000 I enjoy your shit.

00:00:20.000 Thank you, man.

00:00:20.000 How long have you been doing it?

00:00:22.000 23. Nice.

00:00:23.000 Started in October of 2000, did about three and a half years in Philly with DeRosa, Big J, those guys, and then moved to New York at the end of 2003. Nice.

00:00:37.000 Yeah, I was a teacher.

00:00:38.000 I got a master's in special education.

00:00:40.000 I was working with kids who had behavioral problems for about eight years.

00:00:45.000 You seem like a guy who would work with kids with behavioral problems.

00:00:47.000 You're very calm.

00:00:48.000 Yeah.

00:00:49.000 Very calming.

00:00:50.000 Very calming.

00:00:51.000 But it was very, very challenging.

00:00:53.000 Very challenging because kids would flip, you know, a lot.

00:00:56.000 Every day at work was something different, you know?

00:00:58.000 Oh, man.

00:00:59.000 I worked in a behavioral school for a while and then went back at night and got my master's because I figured if I'm going to do this, I might as well teach and then taught in a classroom in three different public school systems.

00:01:11.000 When did you decide to leave to go comedy full-time?

00:01:16.000 I started going to open mics.

00:01:19.000 I was in a relationship, and I thought we were going to get married, and it broke up.

00:01:23.000 I think a lot of comics have this story, you know, where it's like a heartbreak situation, and then I was just on my own, kind of out there, finishing up my master's.

00:01:31.000 So I started just going to open mics at the Laugh House, which is not there anymore.

00:01:35.000 It's a comedy club on South Street.

00:01:38.000 And I just started going every Wednesday.

00:01:40.000 And then I started going on Thursdays and a little bit more.

00:01:43.000 And then I wasn't funny at first.

00:01:45.000 You know, at Bomb, I would do okay, Bomb, do okay, Bomb.

00:01:48.000 But I was like, you know, I'm probably not going to be able to do this, but it's going to help me public speaking wise.

00:01:53.000 It's going to help me somewhere down the line.

00:01:55.000 You know, I got a good vibe for it.

00:01:56.000 So I was like, let me just keep doing it.

00:01:58.000 And at that point, you know, I was, you know, alone and I was going through a tough time.

00:02:03.000 So I was like, I kind of don't care if I fail.

00:02:05.000 I kind of just don't care.

00:02:06.000 I'm going to just fail and just figure it out and just keep coming at it.

00:02:11.000 And because I'm a sensitive guy, so it's like, you know, failure has been tough to take.

00:02:17.000 So I just just kept doing it.

00:02:20.000 I just kind of it kind of dropped off because I was going through a tough time.

00:02:23.000 I didn't care about failure.

00:02:24.000 So I just kept doing it and doing it and doing it.

00:02:27.000 And then at the end of 2003, I was working a job I didn't want to do anymore.

00:02:32.000 And I just decided to move to New York.

00:02:33.000 And that's when it really...

00:02:34.000 I don't know how much time you spent in New York.

00:02:37.000 I know you're a Boston guy.

00:02:38.000 But I'm a product of the New York City comedy clubs, really, is what I like to say.

00:02:44.000 Just hopping.

00:02:45.000 Going from club to club.

00:02:46.000 Just hopping.

00:02:46.000 I mean, it's not so much like that anymore, but it used to be, I don't know how much time you spent there, but it was like you would just run from club to club to club to club to make money.

00:02:54.000 Yeah.

00:02:54.000 And that's how I would do it, you know?

00:02:56.000 And the big club was a comedy cellar.

00:02:58.000 Still is.

00:02:59.000 Sure.

00:02:59.000 But it's like the Boston Comedy Club.

00:03:01.000 I started in New York the last days of the Boston Comedy Club.

00:03:05.000 Oh, okay.

00:03:05.000 With Nate and Dustin Schaaf and a lot of these guys.

00:03:08.000 So I started there, and then what we'd do is I'd go to an open mic first to make sure you got stage time.

00:03:16.000 And then I would go to the Boston, and the Boston, different comics would run the weeknights.

00:03:21.000 So you would go and hang out and see if you could get on.

00:03:24.000 So then I would do that.

00:03:25.000 And then at the end of the night, you would go to the cellar and just hang out.

00:03:29.000 And just hanging out was a big thing back then because you just get your face around, get people to know who you are.

00:03:35.000 And every club had their different, every city has their different scene.

00:03:39.000 And in New York, we'd end up at the cellar with Patrice, Keith Robinson, Jim Norton, those guys.

00:03:46.000 And you'd hang out and they would just break balls at the table.

00:03:49.000 Different time.

00:03:50.000 You know, everybody would break balls, and then people would get to know you slowly.

00:03:54.000 Isn't it crazy you say 2003 is a different time?

00:03:57.000 Different time.

00:03:57.000 You're talking about the 20s.

00:03:59.000 Yeah, but it was a very different landscape back then, and that's what you had to do.

00:04:04.000 You had to hang and get your face around so people would, oh, you know, maybe Mike would be good to open, or maybe so-and-so would be good to open for you on the road, you know, and that's how you would get work.

00:04:13.000 Yeah, I moved to New York in 91, I think, 91 or 92, somewhere around there.

00:04:19.000 And I did the clubs.

00:04:21.000 I did Boston.

00:04:22.000 But mostly I did the road because, like, I lived in New Rochelle.

00:04:27.000 I couldn't afford to live in Manhattan because I couldn't afford a parking spot.

00:04:30.000 And I did road gigs so much.

00:04:31.000 I had a car.

00:04:33.000 And my thought was, I could do these little clubs, but I don't make any money.

00:04:38.000 Or I could do Long Island and Connecticut and Jersey, and I could make 150 bucks, 200 bucks for a show, and I'd have money.

00:04:46.000 And I'd be able to do long sets.

00:04:49.000 And I was always a big fan of Hicks, and I knew that Hicks, he did mostly the road.

00:04:54.000 And he did these real shitholes.

00:04:57.000 As good as he was, I always thought that shitholes made shitty comics.

00:05:01.000 But Hicks kind of changed my mind about that.

00:05:03.000 Like, you could do great comedy in front of shitty rooms.

00:05:06.000 Right.

00:05:06.000 And win them over.

00:05:08.000 Yeah.

00:05:08.000 Yeah, that's really something.

00:05:09.000 That's really what it is.

00:05:10.000 Because if you let the room change you, you can become a shitty comic that way.

00:05:14.000 But if you go, no, I'm going to flip them, but on my terms.

00:05:17.000 Yeah.

00:05:17.000 That's a lost art also, because if you're big, you know, you have your own fans and stuff, that doesn't come into play.

00:05:23.000 But if you're good and you're on the road, you don't have your own fans.

00:05:26.000 It's like you have to, like, keep just working them, working them, working them.

00:05:31.000 I was at the Atlanta Punchline when this happened, where it was a...

00:05:33.000 The crowd, you know, they didn't know me.

00:05:35.000 And there was a drunk woman.

00:05:36.000 It's my birthday!

00:05:37.000 It's my birthday!

00:05:38.000 Like, making it about her.

00:05:40.000 And, like, younger in comedy, I would have just bailed and just tried to score off of her and win and just, you know, do a penalty kill.

00:05:50.000 You know, just play the set out that way and walk away with the victory.

00:05:53.000 But I decided, you know, you know what?

00:05:55.000 Let me neutralize her.

00:05:56.000 I don't want to make it about her.

00:05:57.000 She's being selfish.

00:05:58.000 You know stay in the pocket cuz and I hadn't won the other people over yet.

00:06:02.000 They were still on the fence about this guy.

00:06:04.000 So it's like just keep just keep coming just keep coming and then working them and bringing them to you and bringing them to you and Neutralize her because she's a distraction and just keep bringing them bringing them bringing them and at the end like It was good.

00:06:18.000 It was a good set, but I got off stage.

00:06:20.000 I was like, oh my god, that was so much work, and nobody's gonna know about it.

00:06:25.000 No one's gonna know what happened here.

00:06:27.000 And I walked to the bar, and there's a couple of comics at the bar, and one guy looks at me and goes, I saw what happened.

00:06:34.000 He goes, I saw what you did.

00:06:36.000 That was great.

00:06:36.000 That was masterful.

00:06:38.000 I go, thank you.

00:06:38.000 At least one witness.

00:06:39.000 I got one witness who saw what it was.

00:06:42.000 Who knows what it is and how hard it is to do.

00:06:45.000 It's my birthday!

00:06:46.000 Oh, God.

00:06:47.000 There's so many of them out there.

00:06:48.000 It's really something.

00:06:49.000 You just go to karaoke.

00:06:51.000 What are you doing?

00:06:52.000 Just go to karaoke.

00:06:53.000 Some lady was fucking up Ron Whiteset the other night in our club.

00:06:57.000 She yelled at...

00:06:58.000 Can I get a picture with you?

00:07:01.000 She kept saying that in the middle of his fucking bits.

00:07:04.000 Like he'd be in the middle of the setup.

00:07:05.000 You hear, can I get a picture with you?

00:07:10.000 Ugh, it's the worst.

00:07:12.000 And it's really something, because if the crowd's not on your side and you come too hard at her, you know what I mean?

00:07:17.000 Then they're gonna be like, whoa, what is this guy?

00:07:20.000 This guy's angry now?

00:07:21.000 It's like, they kind of don't get the dynamic of what's happening, but if you just stay and be like, miss, I love you, I don't want you to get kicked out, you know?

00:07:28.000 And eventually she just went to the bathroom anyway, and just, whatever.

00:07:32.000 Did coke.

00:07:34.000 Something.

00:07:34.000 I think she was on it before.

00:07:35.000 Maybe did more coke.

00:07:37.000 Yeah.

00:07:38.000 It's funny how you remember those sets like that like one set that you feel like that was a breakthrough moment, right?

00:07:44.000 Yeah, but it's like the fact that it's like oh I know it I know it and I doubt anybody else is gonna know it but whatever I know it Do you ever stop and think like what if you didn't break up with that girl?

00:07:56.000 Like what if you were still in that relationship and you'd never pursued comedy?

00:08:00.000 Yeah all the time All the time.

00:08:04.000 But you know what?

00:08:05.000 I would have been married.

00:08:06.000 I would have had kids, you know, whatever.

00:08:07.000 And I just would have lived that life.

00:08:09.000 It was a fork in the road.

00:08:11.000 You know what I mean?

00:08:12.000 It was really sad.

00:08:12.000 Because I was teaching at times, working at a behavioral school, and I was with her.

00:08:16.000 And I was like, oh, this is probably how this is going to play out.

00:08:19.000 I don't have the thing in me to go out and get spots.

00:08:23.000 Because going out and getting spots is like...

00:08:26.000 You have to go out and you have to hustle.

00:08:29.000 I was already working hard in my job and trying to get my masters.

00:08:33.000 I was on a different path.

00:08:35.000 So I didn't have that extra in me to go and try to get spots at clubs and stuff.

00:08:39.000 So when you say that, at that moment, you kind of were You weren't in a good place, right?

00:08:48.000 She broke up with me.

00:08:49.000 I was really really we were we dated in college and then we She's from Philadelphia.

00:08:55.000 So I didn't any no ties to Philadelphia.

00:08:58.000 So I moved to Philadelphia to try to find a job be with her she was in law school and So yeah, that's that's what it was.

00:09:06.000 I hope she watches YouTube now I mean, I think she's got a good life.

00:09:11.000 She was a good person.

00:09:13.000 She had her head on her shoulders.

00:09:15.000 It's okay.

00:09:16.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:09:17.000 It hurt, though, man.

00:09:18.000 It hurt.

00:09:18.000 And it's heartbreak like that that causes you to go, oh, yeah, I gotta...

00:09:22.000 It makes you raw.

00:09:24.000 You know, it makes you raw.

00:09:25.000 It makes you go, like, I'm gonna go out and take some chances and...

00:09:29.000 Do what I really want to do.

00:09:30.000 Figure my life out.

00:09:31.000 You know what I mean?

00:09:32.000 Now, if it would have been a thing where I would have been successful right away, then it would have been, oh my god, yeah, it's different.

00:09:37.000 But it's been 20, I've had wins along the way.

00:09:40.000 This is a big win, by the way.

00:09:42.000 But it's like wins along the way.

00:09:44.000 It's like that gradual, I thought I'd moved to New York and it's like, I'll be a star or I'll just get a job.

00:09:49.000 I didn't realize that it was going to be this incremental thing where it's like, get a Tonight Show.

00:09:54.000 That's good.

00:09:55.000 Last Comic Standing.

00:09:56.000 That's good.

00:09:57.000 NBC time, you know?

00:09:58.000 It's like, this happens.

00:09:59.000 Montreal Comedy Festival.

00:10:01.000 It's like gradual throughout the years.

00:10:03.000 Yeah.

00:10:03.000 So that becomes your life.

00:10:05.000 You know what I mean?

00:10:06.000 I describe it to people like making a mountain one layer of paint at a time.

00:10:11.000 Yeah.

00:10:12.000 That's what it's like.

00:10:13.000 Yeah.

00:10:14.000 That really is.

00:10:15.000 Build it, build it, build it out.

00:10:17.000 Yeah.

00:10:17.000 It's so slow.

00:10:18.000 But you don't think that.

00:10:19.000 I didn't think that at the beginning.

00:10:20.000 I thought, oh, I'll just go and I'll win or I'll fail.

00:10:23.000 Either way, it's like, even if I fail, I'm in New York, I'll figure it out in New York, you know?

00:10:27.000 But, yeah, I didn't see this.

00:10:29.000 I didn't see that incremental, the incremental steps that it takes.

00:10:33.000 And, you know, as a comic after that, like, any girl I'd have so protective of.

00:10:37.000 So protective, and I think a lot of comics are that way over my career.

00:10:41.000 Yeah.

00:10:42.000 Like, nothing comes in the way of this.

00:10:43.000 Nothing comes in the way!

00:10:44.000 It's like, you know, I'm not going to sacrifice any of my time for anything else.

00:10:49.000 I'm in this.

00:10:50.000 Well, because it's so fun when it works.

00:10:52.000 Yeah.

00:10:53.000 And the idea of making a living off of doing that is so exciting.

00:10:57.000 Yes.

00:10:57.000 That you think, like, I can't let anything get in the way of this.

00:11:01.000 And relationships would get in the way of this.

00:11:03.000 Like, the early days I dated girls were like, you don't have to go up tonight.

00:11:06.000 I was like, oh, I don't?

00:11:08.000 Yeah.

00:11:08.000 Like, yes I do.

00:11:09.000 Like, you don't know what you're talking about.

00:11:11.000 Like, if you could kill, you would know this.

00:11:14.000 If you know what it feels like to go up there and hit a punchline and have the whole room fall out.

00:11:21.000 Right, right.

00:11:21.000 That's a wild feeling.

00:11:22.000 Yeah, it really is.

00:11:23.000 And not a lot of people ever get to experience that.

00:11:25.000 And it is an art.

00:11:26.000 It's an art form.

00:11:27.000 It's an art form to be able to do that, especially over an hour.

00:11:30.000 Yeah, it's a real art form.

00:11:31.000 It's an art form that sounds like you're just talking.

00:11:34.000 So it's kind of underappreciated because everybody can just talk.

00:11:37.000 Right.

00:11:37.000 And most people are funny sometimes.

00:11:39.000 Yeah.

00:11:40.000 So you see somebody up there and you're like, I can kind of do that.

00:11:42.000 Right.

00:11:43.000 And so you don't really respect it unless someone's just fucking murdering you.

00:11:46.000 Right.

00:11:47.000 It's a funny thing to do with your life.

00:11:49.000 Right.

00:11:50.000 Man, it tests the shit out of you in the beginning, because in the beginning, it just doesn't...

00:11:55.000 There was many times where I was like, this is never gonna happen.

00:11:57.000 Like, I'd bomb, and I'd go back home fucking massively depressed in whatever shitty apartment I was in, going, what the fuck am I doing?

00:12:05.000 Todd Lynn, who was a comic back in the day, passed away since, but he used to say, it's like dating a really hot girl with really bad breath.

00:12:15.000 That's what I'm like, God, he really described it perfectly.

00:12:20.000 Sort of, but you can brush our teeth.

00:12:22.000 I love you to death.

00:12:24.000 Your fucking breath is whack.

00:12:25.000 You know, there's something you can do about that.

00:12:27.000 But comedy, it's just like, it's the whims.

00:12:30.000 It's the crowd.

00:12:31.000 It's who's on before you.

00:12:33.000 It's where you're at in your life.

00:12:34.000 Right.

00:12:35.000 Right.

00:12:35.000 That's all true.

00:12:36.000 And it's a process.

00:12:39.000 I learned that from wrestling, too.

00:12:40.000 Like, wrestling, like, I was good for my area.

00:12:43.000 Like, I learned to wrestle in Ohio.

00:12:45.000 And then which is a great state we had a great program and then I moved to Florida and I finished high school in Florida so I wrestled down there and it's like I was so focused I don't know how you were as a competitor but I was so focused on the win I wanted to get the win I wanted to get it's like yeah yeah yeah it's not and I would psych myself out before matches a lot of times by overthinking it you know and it's like no no no no it's about The process.

00:13:12.000 Yeah, it's about the process train hard and then but when it's time to compete then I wish I would have had this back then It's like you have to just get yourself up and go out there and just Do the things that you train to do.

00:13:25.000 Yeah, and I was too focused on the I want to win I want to feel that I want to feel the victory It's like I want to win.

00:13:31.000 It's like no.

00:13:32.000 No, it's the process stick to the process, but I wish I would have had that and Before I went out and competed like go out there and just cut through this guy.

00:13:40.000 I didn't have that attitude I was tired from cutting weight and you know when you go to these tournaments when you wrestle you weigh in you weigh in and then you would go have breakfast and then there's a time where you digest and lay around on the mat a little bit and then start slowly drilling and getting ready for the match and during that time is when you should be getting your mind right to go out there and like take it to him and And the guys who were successful did that.

00:14:02.000 And I couldn't see it back then, but looking back and having perspective on it, it's like, I wish I was that.

00:14:08.000 So now I keep that in mind in stand-up, you know, because a lot of stand-up is that, you know, being mentally prepared to go up.

00:14:15.000 Yes.

00:14:16.000 You know?

00:14:16.000 Yeah, I always tell comics, don't just go cold.

00:14:20.000 Warm your mind up.

00:14:21.000 I pace around.

00:14:23.000 I breathe deep.

00:14:24.000 I stretch out.

00:14:25.000 I go over my notes.

00:14:26.000 Maybe you don't need to do that, but you should.

00:14:28.000 It's just good for the head.

00:14:30.000 Just get your mind right.

00:14:32.000 What do you think about before you go up?

00:14:34.000 I mean, you're working these arenas now, these gigantic venues, so what do you think about before you go up?

00:14:40.000 Well, arenas, one of the things that I do is I have index cards, so I write out, I'll get there early, and I'll write out, like, just Bullet points of all the sets or all the bits, and I'll put them on cards.

00:14:54.000 Right.

00:14:54.000 Like, this is on this subject, this is on that subject, and I'll lay them out on a coffee table.

00:14:59.000 And writing that out just, like, cements it all in my head, solidifies it all in my head.

00:15:03.000 And then it's just about getting fired up.

00:15:05.000 By the time I'm getting to an arena, though, my set is rock solid.

00:15:08.000 Yeah.

00:15:09.000 That means I've done the clubs, I developed the hour, and then I went to theaters, and I started feeling it.

00:15:14.000 Oh, that's a great way to do it.

00:15:17.000 You can't just go up in front of 16,000 people not knowing whether or not it's going to go well.

00:15:23.000 You have to be tuned in and ready to go.

00:15:27.000 You've got to go out there with a lot of energy.

00:15:30.000 These people, they've got fucking babysitters.

00:15:33.000 They bought the tickets a long time in advance.

00:15:36.000 It's a big deal for them.

00:15:37.000 You've got to treat it like it's very important.

00:15:41.000 Right.

00:15:41.000 Yeah.

00:15:42.000 Right.

00:15:43.000 And just opening for Nate Bargatze, my friend who put my special on.

00:15:47.000 Yeah, theater is a different, especially than the New York City clubs, because it's intimate in New York.

00:15:53.000 Right.

00:15:53.000 And on the road, even.

00:15:54.000 But it's like those theaters, it can be overwhelming.

00:15:57.000 And there's a lot of space to fill, it feels like.

00:16:00.000 Yeah, it's a different timing.

00:16:01.000 With the low ceilings, it's a different vibe.

00:16:04.000 Yeah.

00:16:04.000 Yeah, it's a different vibe with more people.

00:16:06.000 It's a different vibe with the bigger area, like you said, with the high ceilings.

00:16:11.000 And it's just, it's also, you're not connected to them.

00:16:14.000 It's a show.

00:16:15.000 You're up there.

00:16:16.000 You know?

00:16:16.000 One of the things that I really like is the round.

00:16:18.000 When you do arenas in the round, because believe it or not, it's kind of intimate.

00:16:23.000 Because even though there's like 16,000 people, there's people all around you.

00:16:28.000 And you're looking at them, and they're looking at the other people on the other side, too.

00:16:32.000 So it's this big circle of people.

00:16:35.000 It's oddly intimate.

00:16:37.000 As weird as that sounds.

00:16:39.000 That's really something.

00:16:40.000 That's really something.

00:16:41.000 I know when I go, I was very connected to my jokes.

00:16:44.000 I'm like, this is all about these jokes.

00:16:46.000 It's all about these jokes.

00:16:47.000 I fine-tune them and everything.

00:16:48.000 But then I started to realize it is, the preparation is about your jokes, but it's also about two things.

00:16:56.000 One, going up and having a good time.

00:17:00.000 You know what I mean?

00:17:01.000 Like, have fun with it.

00:17:02.000 You did all the preparation.

00:17:03.000 Now go up and be playful with them.

00:17:06.000 Go up and be playful and be loose.

00:17:07.000 I have to tell myself that because I'm connected to that guy.

00:17:09.000 I'm just like, let's go to the jokes.

00:17:11.000 And the other thing I started doing before I would go up is, uh, What you said.

00:17:17.000 Love the crowd.

00:17:19.000 Love them.

00:17:20.000 Like, love them.

00:17:21.000 Because they have hard lives.

00:17:23.000 They're going through divorce, bankruptcy, all kinds of, like, problems.

00:17:28.000 And they came out to get a break from that.

00:17:31.000 And, like, in my joke writing, I would forget that.

00:17:34.000 I was like, this is about the joke.

00:17:35.000 It's about me.

00:17:36.000 It's like, no, no, no, no.

00:17:37.000 Connect with them because they maybe need a break in their life, you know?

00:17:41.000 And be playful and, you know, love them before you go up.

00:17:45.000 That always helps.

00:17:46.000 Even if the set goes bad and you have that mindset going up, it's much easier.

00:17:50.000 It's much easier to deal with.

00:17:52.000 Isn't it interesting that stand-up is such a big thing in terms of like how many people go to see it?

00:17:58.000 And how many people love it?

00:17:59.000 And how many shows there are on the country at any given time?

00:18:04.000 It's a huge art form in terms of how many people pay for it.

00:18:08.000 But very few people share how they do it.

00:18:13.000 And no one teaches it.

00:18:15.000 Right.

00:18:16.000 No one can teach you how to do your way, because your way is different than Nate's way.

00:18:20.000 Nate's way is different than Ari Shafir's way.

00:18:23.000 Everybody's got their own style and their own thing, and you kind of got to teach yourself.

00:18:27.000 And all these things you're saying, like knowing how to just go out and love those people, have a good time, be playful.

00:18:33.000 You gotta learn that on your own.

00:18:34.000 But that's my thing, because I'm connected to the jokes.

00:18:37.000 Like, if you're a guy with a ton of charisma and no act, like, you have a different set of struggles.

00:18:44.000 You know what I mean?

00:18:44.000 So it's like, yeah, my thing is, like, don't be too connected.

00:18:47.000 Be loose with the jokes.

00:18:49.000 And as I've had more experience, it's easier.

00:18:52.000 You know, obviously, get your stage presence down.

00:18:54.000 It's a long, brutal process.

00:18:56.000 And it's funny that the mindset of a competitor, like your mindset of...

00:19:01.000 That can kind of get in the way sometimes.

00:19:04.000 You think?

00:19:05.000 Because you get so focused on, you know, like you're saying, like the jokes, the jokes.

00:19:10.000 And you got to realize, like, no, this is a fun thing that you're doing.

00:19:14.000 Like, you can't get too intense about it.

00:19:17.000 Right.

00:19:17.000 That's absolutely true.

00:19:18.000 But the guys I've seen, the top-level wrestlers that I've seen, the discipline I came from...

00:19:23.000 The guys who are super, super good, Kale Sanderson, that guy, it's like, when he wrestles, I just watched, I went down a rabbit hole and was watching his NCAA finals matches, he just looks fluid.

00:19:36.000 You know what I mean?

00:19:37.000 So it's like, I'm thinking that intense, intense, intense, but when a guy at that level goes out and wrestles, it just, he just looks like he's flowing.

00:19:45.000 You know what I mean?

00:19:46.000 There doesn't seem to be any tension in his body whatsoever.

00:19:49.000 And the guys who are really good, I've found Do that yeah, they're just they just flow they're efficient They're efficient in there and he was like and the guys who are really good offensive machines Like they'll set something up set something up and then and then just go to another thing Mm-hmm,

00:20:05.000 you know, I mean fluid like water, you know Yeah, I feel like wrestling is one of those things that is one of the most difficult sports to compete in and yet one of the most underappreciated in terms of like public perception There's no real professional avenue other than MMA or pro wrestling,

00:20:22.000 which is like entertainment.

00:20:24.000 But it's so hard to do.

00:20:26.000 It's kind of interesting how many sports become really popular.

00:20:31.000 In terms of like being something that people pay to see but wrestling never did that right never connected We know I could see that I could see why though I could see it just because if you don't if you to the untrained eye it just looks like two guys just and Especially if the two guys are at the high at a high high level.

00:20:48.000 It's very like I kind of do,

00:21:05.000 but I kind of feel like it could have been.

00:21:08.000 It feels like...

00:21:09.000 I mean, how's baseball popular?

00:21:10.000 I do not.

00:21:11.000 I'm not a baseball guy at all.

00:21:12.000 I don't get it.

00:21:13.000 Neither do I. I appreciate it if people play it.

00:21:15.000 I appreciate it if you love it.

00:21:16.000 But for me, I just do not understand why that's entertaining.

00:21:20.000 Yeah.

00:21:20.000 And yet, it's the big American pastime.

00:21:23.000 Right.

00:21:23.000 It's a funny thing.

00:21:25.000 Like, wrestling is way more exciting than that.

00:21:26.000 Well, I root for all the wrestlers in the MMA. Oh, yeah.

00:21:29.000 The UFC. It's like...

00:21:31.000 Because it's like entertainment, I root for all the stand-ups.

00:21:34.000 If a stand-up guy is going against an improv guy for a job...

00:21:38.000 I'm rooting stand-up.

00:21:39.000 Oh, yeah.

00:21:39.000 You've got to root for the discipline that you came from.

00:21:42.000 Oh, for sure.

00:21:42.000 Yeah.

00:21:43.000 And wrestling is the most important discipline for MMA, I think.

00:21:46.000 You think?

00:21:46.000 Yeah, I think it's the foundation.

00:21:48.000 Because the wrestler can dictate where the fight takes place.

00:21:50.000 You know, if the wrestler chooses to stand, he can stand.

00:21:53.000 If the wrestler wants to get back up, he can get back up.

00:21:56.000 And the wrestler knows how to take the guy down.

00:21:58.000 Whereas, like...

00:21:59.000 Even though every fight starts standing up, and it's a big advantage for the striker while they're standing up, but the wrestler, if the wrestler knows how to strike, the striker has to think about two different things simultaneously.

00:22:10.000 Has to think, maybe this guy's gonna shoot, and what if this guy punches me?

00:22:13.000 What if this guy kicks me?

00:22:14.000 So there's so many more options that the wrestler has, and there's that threat of the takedown that looms large, that paralyzes guys with anticipation.

00:22:23.000 It's the most important foundation.

00:22:25.000 It's everything in MMA. If you can't wrestle, Good luck.

00:22:30.000 Because unless you can land a wild shot like Jorge Masvidal and Ben Askren, unless you get that wild shot off right away and knock the guy out, it's a long night against one of the best wrestlers.

00:22:41.000 Right.

00:22:41.000 And that wild shot, are you going to be able to do that every time?

00:22:44.000 Most likely, no.

00:22:45.000 Yeah, if you look at overall success rate, wrestlers have a huge percentage of wins in MMA. And the really good guys, like Bo Nickel, right away you see him dominating guys with all this experience.

00:22:58.000 Because his skill set, that one skill that he has wrestling, he's so much better than everybody else.

00:23:03.000 That it's just a massive, massive advantage.

00:23:06.000 And the training like I took taekwondo when I was young and it's like forms and you know punches and kicks and forms but When I started wrestling in eighth grade Eighth grade wrestling practice was so intense that I thought that the coach was punishing The football players on that I thought are we being punished for like two months?

00:23:28.000 I had to check it on my friends like no no no this is just what it is.

00:23:31.000 Yeah, and it's so I wrestled one year in high school and I couldn't believe how hard it was.

00:23:36.000 I would remember going home and my legs were so sore after running stadium stairs that I could barely walk.

00:23:43.000 And I was like, this is fucking horrible.

00:23:45.000 And I didn't want to go to class.

00:23:47.000 And I was so tired from wrestling that I was like, Jesus Christ, how does anybody do this?

00:23:53.000 It was nuts.

00:23:53.000 And then the cutting weight also, which I'm sure you had to make weight for competition.

00:23:57.000 And we didn't know anything back then.

00:23:59.000 It's just like, go eat pasta and just eat less.

00:24:02.000 There was no science behind any of it.

00:24:04.000 And you weighed in the day of the match, too, which is terrible.

00:24:07.000 Terrible.

00:24:07.000 One of the best things about the UFC is that they cut weight the day before.

00:24:11.000 I hate cutting weight, period.

00:24:13.000 My opinion on cutting weight for fighting is that it's sanctioned cheating.

00:24:17.000 You're not really 170 pounds.

00:24:19.000 You're 200 pounds.

00:24:21.000 Yeah.

00:24:21.000 But you dry yourself out the week of, and then 24 hours in, you're losing 12, 13 pounds.

00:24:27.000 And then you rehydrate like crazy.

00:24:29.000 Like, what is this stupid thing that they're doing 24 hours before a cage fight, you're literally almost dying.

00:24:35.000 Well, some guys are just naturally close to their weight.

00:24:38.000 I wrestle with guys like that, who are just like 3 or 4 pounds above the weight.

00:24:42.000 They have very low body fat.

00:24:43.000 I wasn't like that.

00:24:44.000 I was like a bulky guy and husky.

00:24:47.000 And it's like, that means, yeah, you gotta cut a lot of weight to get that muscle mass that the other guys might have naturally.

00:24:53.000 Yeah, to make the optimal weight, you know, body weight for competing.

00:24:58.000 Right, because if you wrestle at a high, people just go, wrestle at a higher weight.

00:25:01.000 It's like, then you're wrestling guys who've cut down from a higher weight, and they're gonna just be stronger.

00:25:06.000 Yeah, it's a big advantage if you could do it right.

00:25:08.000 Like, this weekend is Israel Adesanya versus Alex Pajeda, and Pajeda, who beat Adesanya in the last fight, is fucking huge for 185. Like, I stand next to him like, how the fuck is this guy 15 pounds lighter than me?

00:25:22.000 That doesn't even make any sense.

00:25:23.000 He's fucking huge.

00:25:25.000 But when he gets into the cage on fight day, he's 225. It's in boxing too.

00:25:31.000 I'm a huge boxing fan.

00:25:32.000 Me too.

00:25:32.000 And I live by the garden.

00:25:34.000 I go see Lomachenko anytime he's at the garden.

00:25:37.000 I go see him fight.

00:25:38.000 He's unreal.

00:25:39.000 But it's like he's gonna fight Devin Haney.

00:25:41.000 That's a great fight.

00:25:43.000 But he's like, it's a great fight.

00:25:44.000 I'm so happy it's happening at 135. But Haney I think cuts down from 150, 160, something like that.

00:25:51.000 He's walking around.

00:25:53.000 Loma's tiny.

00:25:54.000 Loma's a smaller guy.

00:25:55.000 Yeah, he's much smaller than those guys.

00:25:57.000 You saw that in the Teofimo Lopez fight.

00:26:00.000 Lopez is big and scary.

00:26:03.000 It's just that power is such a big advantage for a big guy who cuts a lot of weight to get to 35. Right.

00:26:10.000 But Lomo won't go down.

00:26:11.000 He won't go down to 130. He's like, nah, I want the challenge.

00:26:13.000 I think he wants the challenge.

00:26:15.000 A lot of these Ukraine, these Eastern Bloc guys, like, they want the smoke, man.

00:26:20.000 They want the challenge.

00:26:21.000 They do, but I was a little disappointed in his perceptions of the Lopez fight after he lost.

00:26:27.000 Like, he thought he won that fight.

00:26:28.000 I was like, that's crazy.

00:26:29.000 I mean, you could see halfway through the fight, his corner must have been telling him, you're in trouble.

00:26:35.000 Yeah.

00:26:35.000 Because he picked up the pace halfway through that fight.

00:26:39.000 It was too late, obviously.

00:26:41.000 He made adjustments, and he had a big 11th round.

00:26:43.000 Yeah.

00:26:43.000 I remember in the 11th, he was really putting it on him.

00:26:45.000 I was like, oh man, maybe Loma's going to take this.

00:26:48.000 Yeah.

00:26:48.000 And then the 12th, Lopez came out strong.

00:26:50.000 Right, right, right.

00:26:51.000 That kid had such a hard jab, too.

00:26:53.000 It's such a dangerous jab to get through.

00:26:55.000 He came out at the beginning of the fight and established it.

00:26:58.000 You know what I mean?

00:26:59.000 I remember that.

00:26:59.000 And it's like, wow.

00:27:00.000 And Lomo takes him two, three rounds to download what the guy's doing.

00:27:05.000 He's a slower starter because he just kind of like is measuring him.

00:27:10.000 Almost to the point, you're like, what's happening?

00:27:12.000 You know what I mean?

00:27:13.000 If you're like unskilled, like I'm just a fan, but it's like he does that for two or three rounds and then he's just like, oh, I figured it out and then picks it up and picks the guy apart.

00:27:21.000 It's too bad that he's so small because if he was larger in like a natural 135 or a natural 140 or something like that, there's so many big fights for him and it would be really exciting to see.

00:27:31.000 Yeah.

00:27:32.000 But to see a guy like that, we really should be fighting 130. Yes.

00:27:35.000 Going up against these guys that are cutting down from 150, 155. It's just a big advantage.

00:27:40.000 But there's a lot of guys at 135 who are very, very tough.

00:27:43.000 You know, the Tank-Ryan fight.

00:27:45.000 Oh yeah, that's a big fight.

00:27:46.000 Can't wait to see that.

00:27:46.000 I'm so happy that got made.

00:27:48.000 Yeah, me too.

00:27:49.000 I'm really interested.

00:27:51.000 I'm a giant Gervonta fan.

00:27:53.000 I think that guy is so unusual.

00:27:55.000 His style is so unusual and his patience.

00:27:58.000 Yes.

00:27:59.000 The Leo-Santa Cruz fight was really something for me because Leo-Santa Cruz is a technician.

00:28:04.000 He's great, Mexican style, but he's also a technician.

00:28:08.000 And the fight was very close before Tank stopped him.

00:28:12.000 But he has that power that can end it.

00:28:14.000 But he finds these openings and he sees them, but he doesn't go after them right away.

00:28:19.000 He waits for the right time.

00:28:21.000 He's so patient.

00:28:22.000 Right.

00:28:23.000 Like when you watch the early rounds of his fights, he's like at a world champions that are competing today at the highest level.

00:28:29.000 He probably has the lowest punch count in the early rounds.

00:28:32.000 Yeah.

00:28:32.000 But he also knows he's got that nuclear option that if he can fucking crack you, most likely he's going to take you out.

00:28:38.000 He's got massive confidence in that.

00:28:40.000 But the thing is, can you rely on that?

00:28:42.000 You know what I mean?

00:28:43.000 Because at the end, you know, that Pitbull Crews fight, it's like, that was very close.

00:28:48.000 Pitbull Crews is a tough guy, Mexican, just staying in the pocket with him.

00:28:52.000 You know what I mean?

00:28:53.000 So it's like a Deontay Wilder thing, where it's like, you're just waiting on that one punch, but it's like, you can't lose every round up to that either.

00:29:01.000 You know what I mean?

00:29:02.000 Yeah, it's interesting, right?

00:29:04.000 Like, you don't know whether someone's ever going to be able to figure that out or whether or not he's just going to keep cracking people.

00:29:09.000 Yeah.

00:29:09.000 You know, so it's part of the fun of watching it.

00:29:12.000 I've talked to a lot of, like, real boxing purists.

00:29:14.000 It's like, you can't rely on that style.

00:29:15.000 Right.

00:29:16.000 He's got to be busier.

00:29:17.000 When he gets to the best guys, it's not going to work out.

00:29:19.000 Like, well, we'll see.

00:29:21.000 Yeah.

00:29:21.000 We'll see, because there's so many good guys.

00:29:23.000 Shakur Stevenson.

00:29:25.000 Shakur Stevenson was at 130. I'd like to see him and Lomachenko.

00:29:28.000 Yes.

00:29:28.000 Even the guy that Lomachenko just beat, Ortiz, which was a sparring partner years ago.

00:29:34.000 Yeah.

00:29:34.000 He looked great.

00:29:35.000 I was at that fight.

00:29:36.000 Yeah.

00:29:36.000 He looked unreal.

00:29:37.000 Yeah, he looked unreal.

00:29:38.000 But for Lomachenko, that was a great adjustment after the Lopez fight, too, right?

00:29:42.000 Yeah.

00:29:42.000 I mean, he really looked like he's coming.

00:29:43.000 He apparently had some shoulder surgery, too.

00:29:45.000 Yes, he was hurt.

00:29:46.000 I think he got hurt halfway through the Teofimo fight, to be honest.

00:29:51.000 I think he hurt a hand or a shoulder.

00:29:53.000 He wasn't himself.

00:29:54.000 Not that Tiafemo fought unbelievably.

00:29:57.000 And then you see what Kambosis did to Tiafemo.

00:30:01.000 And then you see what Devin Haney did to Kambosis.

00:30:04.000 Two fights in a row.

00:30:05.000 Jesus Christ, there's levels.

00:30:06.000 He went to Australia.

00:30:07.000 I mean, I think that's a lot.

00:30:08.000 You deserve a lot of credit for that.

00:30:10.000 Fuck yeah.

00:30:10.000 Oh, he's so good.

00:30:11.000 He's so good.

00:30:12.000 Him and Lomachenko is going to be very interesting.

00:30:16.000 It's a great fight.

00:30:17.000 Very, very interesting.

00:30:18.000 Very technical fight.

00:30:19.000 Yeah.

00:30:20.000 There's so many good fighters now.

00:30:21.000 It's a really good time for boxing.

00:30:23.000 And finally, they're making the Terrence Crawford-Errol Spence fight.

00:30:26.000 For June 17th, right?

00:30:27.000 But I'm following that like crazy.

00:30:29.000 But it's like they tried to do that before, so I don't get too excited.

00:30:33.000 I don't know why.

00:30:34.000 Until they actually make it.

00:30:35.000 What's going on with that?

00:30:36.000 That was weird.

00:30:36.000 When Terrence decided to fight that other dude for his last fight, and everybody was like, what the fuck?

00:30:42.000 I thought you were going to fight Errol Spence.

00:30:44.000 Now it's all falling apart.

00:30:46.000 Yeah.

00:30:46.000 You know, luckily they made it though.

00:30:48.000 So if it's signed and ready to go for June...

00:30:51.000 But it's not signed yet, is it?

00:30:52.000 I don't know.

00:30:52.000 I mean, they're announcing it.

00:30:53.000 They're talking about it.

00:30:54.000 They're announcing it.

00:30:54.000 They're announcing they have plans for it.

00:30:55.000 They do weird shit with boxing like that.

00:30:57.000 Like Usyk and Tyson Fury.

00:30:59.000 I thought it was a done deal.

00:31:01.000 Like, look, it's happening.

00:31:02.000 And now, you know, it gets to this point where Tyson Fury is like, I want 70%.

00:31:07.000 I'm the fucking Gypsy King.

00:31:09.000 I want 70%.

00:31:10.000 And Usyk's like, okay, 70%.

00:31:12.000 And it still fell apart.

00:31:14.000 He offered him 70-30.

00:31:16.000 Yeah, and he took it.

00:31:17.000 I didn't think that Usyk...

00:31:18.000 No one thought Usyk was going to take that.

00:31:19.000 He goes, nah, I'll take it.

00:31:21.000 Yeah.

00:31:21.000 He wants a win.

00:31:22.000 He wants the fight.

00:31:23.000 He wants the legacy.

00:31:24.000 Unreal.

00:31:25.000 I mean, yeah, Tyson is more of a draw.

00:31:27.000 Yeah.

00:31:27.000 So I understand that.

00:31:28.000 But Usyk has three belts.

00:31:30.000 Yeah, but Tyson's more of a draw.

00:31:32.000 Like, if you can do 70-30 and you'll still make a shit ton of money, I mean, that's a fucking big fight.

00:31:37.000 I mean, that's a worldwide, gigantic, you know, $200 million fight.

00:31:42.000 So he'll make 30% of that.

00:31:44.000 Fine.

00:31:45.000 Yeah, but I think the sticking point was the rematch clause.

00:31:47.000 Tyson wanted 50-50 on the rematch clause.

00:31:50.000 So you lose the fight and then the rematch clause is 50-50?

00:31:53.000 You don't have any belts.

00:31:54.000 I would take it.

00:31:56.000 I think it's still worth it because the name...

00:31:58.000 It's like, what brings asses in seats, right?

00:32:01.000 It's the name.

00:32:02.000 If they have the rematch and Usyk instead decides to fight...

00:32:07.000 Whether it's Wilder or whoever, it's not going to be as big a fight, Anthony Joshua.

00:32:11.000 It's not going to be as big a fight.

00:32:12.000 The big fight is Tyson Fury.

00:32:14.000 I think that's reasonable.

00:32:16.000 70-30, if you could beat me, 50-50.

00:32:18.000 I think it's reasonable.

00:32:20.000 Yeah, but after the 70-30, you're going, alright, you're pushing me.

00:32:25.000 But he's the Gypsy King!

00:32:26.000 Yeah.

00:32:27.000 No, I know he's a huge draw.

00:32:28.000 I know he's a huge draw.

00:32:29.000 He's the biggest fucking draw in heavyweight boxing.

00:32:31.000 And he might be the best heavyweight ever.

00:32:33.000 He's a fucking freak of nature.

00:32:35.000 Yeah.

00:32:35.000 I mean, he really is.

00:32:36.000 And he's such a personality.

00:32:38.000 Yeah, he sings that song after the...

00:32:41.000 He sings after...

00:32:42.000 I'm like, this is pretty good!

00:32:43.000 The song is pretty good!

00:32:45.000 It's unbelievable!

00:32:46.000 Yeah, he's like an entertainer.

00:32:48.000 That's a Pacquiao.

00:32:49.000 Pacquiao used to fight.

00:32:50.000 He used to go out and do karaoke after the fights.

00:32:52.000 It's like, that's bananas.

00:32:54.000 You know, Manny Pacquiao is like a professional level pool player.

00:32:56.000 Is he really?

00:32:57.000 Yeah, like really good.

00:32:58.000 Like if he decided to stop fighting and never box again, he can compete as a professional pool player.

00:33:04.000 That's nuts.

00:33:05.000 Yeah, he's really good, man.

00:33:06.000 I've watched him play.

00:33:08.000 I'd watch him and Mayweather do like one-on-one basketball.

00:33:12.000 Right.

00:33:12.000 They both like play basketball, you know, like in the spare time.

00:33:15.000 So competitive.

00:33:16.000 So competitive.

00:33:16.000 Yeah.

00:33:17.000 Mayweather's unbelievable.

00:33:19.000 I mean, watching him fight and some people don't get it.

00:33:21.000 They just like, I had a friend and he was like, he's boring.

00:33:24.000 No knockouts.

00:33:26.000 I go, but he's a top level guy.

00:33:29.000 Multiple-time world champion, and he's dismantling other multiple-time world champions.

00:33:34.000 And not getting hit.

00:33:35.000 Yeah, is there anything there?

00:33:37.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:33:38.000 I go, it's just, he's boring.

00:33:40.000 I don't like him.

00:33:41.000 I go, okay.

00:33:43.000 Maybe, is it possible that you don't know what you're watching?

00:33:47.000 Yeah.

00:33:48.000 Maybe.

00:33:49.000 Could it be that?

00:33:50.000 I don't know.

00:33:51.000 I like knockouts.

00:33:53.000 I go, then you should watch Butterbean.

00:33:56.000 And he goes, yeah, I like Butterbean.

00:33:57.000 I go, good.

00:33:58.000 Watch Butterbean.

00:33:59.000 It ends up being like a five-year-old argument.

00:34:01.000 Good.

00:34:01.000 I will.

00:34:02.000 I go, you should.

00:34:03.000 I will.

00:34:03.000 Good.

00:34:04.000 Good.

00:34:06.000 It ends up being that.

00:34:07.000 You know what I mean?

00:34:08.000 But for him to just have that run is dismantling guys.

00:34:11.000 You're always going to have casuals like that.

00:34:14.000 Yeah.

00:34:14.000 In every sport.

00:34:15.000 In MMA, that's a big thing.

00:34:17.000 People only like knockouts.

00:34:18.000 They boo when fights go to the ground.

00:34:19.000 Right.

00:34:20.000 Okay.

00:34:20.000 But is there a thing in MMA where it's like, are they calling stalemates faster?

00:34:25.000 You mean getting people back up?

00:34:27.000 Yeah, like if the guy's on top and he's not making progress or the guy on bottom isn't getting a wrist or working towards submission, will they stop them and stand them up faster?

00:34:37.000 I think that's better for the sport.

00:34:39.000 In wrestling, they'll hit guys with stalling quick to keep the action moving.

00:34:43.000 I know that's not a thing in MMA, but it does help the optics of it.

00:34:47.000 It used to be in pride, they would give them a yellow card and it would take 10% of your purse.

00:34:53.000 So if you got a yellow card in Pride, that meant you weren't trying to win or you were stalling.

00:34:58.000 And if the referee pulled that yellow card out, people were fucking freaking out.

00:35:01.000 Like, you know, if you're getting paid a million dollars, $100,000 is now gone for that yellow card.

00:35:06.000 You're like, fuck.

00:35:08.000 And that's a big deal.

00:35:10.000 Is it a warning first?

00:35:11.000 They give a warning before they put their yellow card?

00:35:13.000 I think it was up to the referee's discretion and pride.

00:35:15.000 I don't remember exactly how they did it, but when they did it, it was a big fucking deal, and the crowd would cheer, and then the guy would adjust accordingly.

00:35:23.000 Because if you got two yellow cards, you're fucked.

00:35:25.000 Yeah.

00:35:26.000 I mean, I don't even know if they gave two yellow cards.

00:35:28.000 I don't remember that ever happening.

00:35:29.000 I'm sure it did, but I don't remember it ever happening in a fight.

00:35:32.000 But in MMA, the controversy is about whether or not you should stand someone up, because you have five minutes.

00:35:40.000 And if someone takes someone down and they're on top of them, it's up to the person who's on the bottom to get back up.

00:35:47.000 That's your job.

00:35:48.000 And the guy on top, it's up to him to hold you down.

00:35:51.000 I don't believe in stand-ups.

00:35:52.000 It might be more entertaining for the audience, but I'm a purist in terms of like, I think you should control your own destiny in there.

00:35:59.000 And if a guy can hold you down and just punch you in the face while you're on the, even if it's boring, He's doing what he wants to do, and you can't do anything about that.

00:36:09.000 That means he's winning, and I think that any interference of that is against the purity of the sport.

00:36:15.000 That's interesting.

00:36:16.000 Yeah, I do understand that it could be boring if a guy can hold a guy down and control him.

00:36:21.000 Not so much boring, but is the guy on top...

00:36:24.000 Initiating action.

00:36:26.000 I think that's the key.

00:36:27.000 Is he initiating action?

00:36:28.000 Is he trying to win the fight?

00:36:29.000 Is he advancing his position?

00:36:31.000 In wrestling it's advancing your position.

00:36:32.000 Yes, it is in MMA too.

00:36:33.000 But punching in the face is advancing.

00:36:35.000 It's a way of advancing your position in terms of winning the fight.

00:36:38.000 Yeah, but it's open to interpretation.

00:36:40.000 Like, say if he's in side control and he's only occasionally hammer fisting the guy.

00:36:44.000 The guy's in no danger of being stopped.

00:36:46.000 There's an argument that that's stalling.

00:36:49.000 But I don't buy that argument because it's only a five minute round.

00:36:52.000 And for a grappler, it's really hard to take someone down.

00:36:55.000 Like you're dealing with kicks and knees and punches and you're trying to find the opening and then you level change, you get the shot, maybe you switch from a double to a single, you know, you run the pipe, you get the guy on the ground, all that took a minute and a half.

00:37:07.000 And if you're holding the guy down and then the referee comes like, keep moving, action, you know, like advance your position.

00:37:14.000 And then they stand it back up, but what the fuck is that?

00:37:17.000 That guy couldn't get up.

00:37:18.000 If it was no one here to stop that, if this was just a fight out in a field somewhere, that guy on top controls the fight.

00:37:27.000 He does what the fuck he wants to do, and if that guy gets tired, eventually he'll move to mount and just start beating the fuck out of him.

00:37:33.000 But it's important that his skill set is expressed.

00:37:37.000 His skill set is his ability to control the guy.

00:37:40.000 And if you're on the bottom and you can't get back up, I don't care if it's boring.

00:37:44.000 Tough shit.

00:37:45.000 Your job is to get back up, and if you can't get back up, that guy wins.

00:37:48.000 Even if he wins a boring-ass fight where he just takes you down and gives you noogies for five rounds, tough shit.

00:37:54.000 You gotta figure out how to not get taken down, or get back up, or submit them off your back, or find some kind of scramble where you can get on top.

00:38:01.000 And if you can't do that, then you lose, because that's what the fight's all about.

00:38:04.000 And, of course, In terms of the people that go to pay, they are going to pay more to see the exciting people.

00:38:11.000 The Conor McGregors, the Jon Joneses, the people that stop people and finish people.

00:38:15.000 And they're the big draws.

00:38:16.000 But if you can Ben Askren your way to a career, and Ben did it for a long time, we just took guys down and fucking noogied them into a coma.

00:38:24.000 Tough shit.

00:38:25.000 That's my feeling.

00:38:26.000 I don't like stand-ups.

00:38:27.000 I'd hate them.

00:38:29.000 Especially, sometimes they'll stand someone up from a dominant position.

00:38:33.000 Someone will get to side control and the referee will stand them up, and I'm just going, What the fuck are you doing?

00:38:38.000 It's so hard to get there, and you're only giving a guy five minutes to work, and you gotta think it probably took a minute or so to get the guy down.

00:38:45.000 Not just a minute or so, but it is a lot of energy.

00:38:47.000 A lot of energy.

00:38:48.000 You're a lot of energy to take a guy down.

00:38:50.000 And then, if you get taken out of that and stood back up again, now you're tired, and this guy, his striking is probably a strong trait, and now you're in his realm, and you expended all this energy, and it's taken away from you by a bad referee.

00:39:06.000 I fucking hate it.

00:39:07.000 I think it's dumb.

00:39:08.000 I think it should be eliminated.

00:39:09.000 I really do.

00:39:10.000 I don't like it at all.

00:39:11.000 I don't think there's ever a time that they should stand people up.

00:39:14.000 I don't think there's ever a time they should separate someone if they got someone pressed up against the cage and they're kneeing them in the body and elbowing them.

00:39:20.000 Sometimes referees will decide there's not enough action and they separate them.

00:39:23.000 I hate that too.

00:39:24.000 I don't believe in any of it.

00:39:26.000 I don't think you should do anything to make it more exciting for the casuals.

00:39:29.000 Nothing.

00:39:30.000 Zero.

00:39:30.000 Yeah, because the best guys are always gonna be exciting.

00:39:33.000 Yeah.

00:39:33.000 It's just you're gonna have, it's just like everybody's like, I want blood all the time, blood.

00:39:39.000 You don't always get blood.

00:39:40.000 Action movies aren't always action.

00:39:42.000 Sometimes the hero and the woman kiss.

00:39:44.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:39:47.000 That's why Dana stacks the cards, in case you have a fight that's not as exciting.

00:39:55.000 Well, they're very, I mean, it's obviously they're different than me because they're promoters and they're selling a product.

00:40:00.000 I'm a martial artist, and so what I want to see is someone compete to the full ability, the full extent of their abilities.

00:40:07.000 And something that gets in the way of that is stand-ups.

00:40:09.000 I don't like it.

00:40:10.000 But I'm not, it's not like a universal opinion.

00:40:14.000 Most people don't agree with me.

00:40:15.000 A lot of people don't agree with me.

00:40:16.000 Right, because they're casuals.

00:40:18.000 Not even casuals.

00:40:19.000 They're not understanding the technical...

00:40:20.000 Even fans.

00:40:21.000 ...the technical aspect of what you just said.

00:40:23.000 Yeah, but even...

00:40:24.000 I understand that, yeah.

00:40:25.000 Even hardcore, there's a lot of hardcore fans that don't agree with me.

00:40:28.000 They say, no, no, no, you can't just hold the guy down.

00:40:30.000 You got an advanced position.

00:40:32.000 Right.

00:40:32.000 Okay, why?

00:40:33.000 Tell me why.

00:40:34.000 Because the guy wants to win, and if he could just win by taking guys down, and if the audience boos and he doesn't get popular because of it, okay, so what?

00:40:42.000 Willy Pep won fights without throwing a punch.

00:40:44.000 He won a whole round once without throwing a punch.

00:40:47.000 Just moving and dancing.

00:40:49.000 It was so masterful that people had to agree.

00:40:51.000 It's like, what do you want him to do?

00:40:53.000 Just Arturo Gatti and fucking just stand right in front of him and just throw bombs like Mickey Ward?

00:40:58.000 Yes.

00:40:59.000 Sometimes it's fun.

00:41:00.000 It's unreal.

00:41:01.000 Then you saw what happened when Arturo Gatti fought Floyd Mayweather.

00:41:05.000 That shit didn't work against a master.

00:41:07.000 Not at all.

00:41:08.000 Yeah.

00:41:08.000 Not at all.

00:41:09.000 It was great.

00:41:10.000 Diego Corrales versus Julio Luiz Castillo.

00:41:12.000 Oh my god.

00:41:13.000 That fight was crazy.

00:41:15.000 I mean, I love the Gotti Ward fights, but that fight for me is the greatest fight in history that I've seen in the modern era.

00:41:23.000 Because he came back?

00:41:24.000 The first ten rounds, you expected Diego, because of his reach, to keep him on the outside, and he didn't.

00:41:31.000 He just stood in a phone booth with them, and they just traded, and it was...

00:41:35.000 You're like, oh my god, can this continue?

00:41:38.000 They're just in a phone booth, and...

00:41:41.000 Just at a high, high skill level working on the inside.

00:41:45.000 Both of them.

00:41:46.000 And just trading brutal shots and nobody taking a step backwards.

00:41:49.000 Yeah.

00:41:50.000 And it was unreal.

00:41:51.000 And then the 10th round where he gets knocked down and he spits the mouthpiece out.

00:41:56.000 Goosen puts it back in.

00:41:57.000 And then he stops.

00:42:00.000 I mean, it was just...

00:42:01.000 Insane.

00:42:02.000 I think they play that...

00:42:03.000 I'm sorry.

00:42:04.000 I think they play that at corporate retreats.

00:42:08.000 They play round 10 of that.

00:42:09.000 They should play the whole fight.

00:42:11.000 But they play round 10 of that fight in corporate retreats to be like, just never give up.

00:42:19.000 You never give up.

00:42:19.000 Sometimes you should give up.

00:42:24.000 That round 10, I mean, it's almost like watching a Rocky movie.

00:42:29.000 Yeah, there it is.

00:42:29.000 It's emotional to watch.

00:42:32.000 Oh my god.

00:42:32.000 It was an incredible fight.

00:42:34.000 It was an incredible fight.

00:42:36.000 And he was in real trouble multiple times in that fight.

00:42:40.000 And when he got dropped, I mean, there was several times where it looked like the end.

00:42:43.000 Look at that left hook.

00:42:44.000 Oh my god.

00:42:45.000 Did you see the Caleb Plant-Benavidez fight last weekend?

00:42:49.000 Yes.

00:42:50.000 Fucking...

00:42:50.000 Hey, man.

00:42:51.000 And you know what?

00:42:52.000 And that's a good stoppage.

00:42:54.000 That's a good stoppage, too.

00:42:55.000 He looked like he was out on his feet.

00:42:56.000 But you could make an argument that Corrales could have got stopped earlier than that.

00:43:00.000 Yeah.

00:43:00.000 I mean, it's one of those things.

00:43:02.000 It's very subjective.

00:43:03.000 Yeah.

00:43:03.000 Referees have stopped fights for way less before.

00:43:05.000 Well, the Fury-Deontay Wilder fight, where he's down and, you know, he opens his eyes.

00:43:10.000 You know, the famous, he opens his eyes and gets back up.

00:43:13.000 Jack Reese is the ref, I think.

00:43:15.000 And Deontay's camp was complaining that he wasn't counting, whatever.

00:43:19.000 But it's like...

00:43:19.000 Jack Reese is great.

00:43:21.000 He's a great ref.

00:43:22.000 He always gives the guy the opportunity.

00:43:23.000 He's like, I'm going to count the 10. He gives the opportunity for the guy to get up.

00:43:26.000 Just you never thought Fury was getting up.

00:43:28.000 No way.

00:43:29.000 His eyes were closed on the ground.

00:43:31.000 He's laying on his back with his arms above his head like he's just flatlined.

00:43:35.000 It's unbelievable.

00:43:36.000 And then he rises and wins the rest of the round, which is crazy.

00:43:40.000 And that win for the rest of the round made the blueprint for the second fight.

00:43:44.000 Because you realize, like, Wilder has a hard time when people put him on his heels.

00:43:47.000 Right.

00:43:47.000 People back him up and so then he came out the second fight just backing him up and stopped him.

00:43:52.000 Look at that.

00:43:53.000 I mean look at this.

00:43:54.000 His arms are flailed to the side.

00:43:57.000 His eyes are rolled back.

00:44:01.000 He looks like he's done.

00:44:02.000 Yeah, he really does.

00:44:04.000 And he looks at the referee, the referee's counting, he goes, okay, back to work.

00:44:06.000 Right.

00:44:07.000 And I was watching at home, I remember screaming, oh my god!

00:44:11.000 Yeah.

00:44:11.000 I was by myself, screaming, oh my god!

00:44:15.000 And then he got back up, I was like, wait, no way.

00:44:18.000 No way.

00:44:19.000 And he's like, I'm fine.

00:44:21.000 Let's go.

00:44:21.000 And the referee says, okay.

00:44:23.000 Walk to here.

00:44:23.000 That's great.

00:44:24.000 Look at this fucking shot, too.

00:44:26.000 Jesus.

00:44:26.000 My God.

00:44:27.000 And the right hand before it, too.

00:44:29.000 So he cracks him with the right hand.

00:44:30.000 Boom!

00:44:31.000 And nobody punches harder than Deontay Wilder.

00:44:34.000 He's unreal.

00:44:34.000 He's got the touch of God.

00:44:35.000 I mean, those two punches are unbelievable.

00:44:40.000 And look, Wilder's 100% convinced as he walks off that it's over.

00:44:43.000 And he makes the throat cut thing.

00:44:46.000 He does a little dance.

00:44:47.000 And then you see the look in his eyes when Tyson gets up.

00:44:50.000 He's like, oh shit.

00:44:51.000 How?

00:44:52.000 Look at this.

00:44:53.000 He does the throw cut thing.

00:44:55.000 I mean, nobody on earth other than Tyson Fury is getting up there.

00:44:59.000 Which is so crazy.

00:45:01.000 Deontay Wilder is the greatest knockout artist in the history of the heavyweight division.

00:45:05.000 There's no one that's had one-punch knockouts like that guy.

00:45:08.000 The Luis Ortiz fight just catches him on the forehead with flat lines.

00:45:12.000 Was losing every round.

00:45:13.000 Yes.

00:45:14.000 Yeah.

00:45:14.000 I mean, and then you see Deontay's like, I can't believe this motherfucker is still up.

00:45:19.000 And then there's also like an emotional thing that happened.

00:45:22.000 Look at the wildest of Deontay.

00:45:25.000 To be able to survive that.

00:45:26.000 First of all, I mean, I have a huge respect for mental toughness.

00:45:29.000 And the mental toughness it takes to get up.

00:45:32.000 And then you know the guy who just did that to you is waiting on the other side of the ring to come and do it again.

00:45:40.000 And then he moves forward.

00:45:42.000 He survives the initial barrage, and then he starts moving forward.

00:45:45.000 Then he dings Deontay.

00:45:46.000 And you see Deontay got rocked at one point, and he starts pushing him back.

00:45:50.000 I'm like, oh my god, he won the rest of the round.

00:45:52.000 Like, he literally made it like a 9-9 round.

00:45:56.000 Yes.

00:45:57.000 Which is crazy.

00:45:58.000 I love that.

00:45:58.000 But I love the fortitude that it takes in that moment.

00:46:01.000 The composure.

00:46:02.000 First of all, the mental toughness to get up.

00:46:04.000 And then the fortitude.

00:46:06.000 All of these intangibles.

00:46:07.000 Like, I'm a boxing guy, but it's all of these underlying things which makes me love the sport.

00:46:11.000 You know?

00:46:12.000 The composure that it takes.

00:46:14.000 You know?

00:46:15.000 It's really unbelievable.

00:46:17.000 That's why I love the sport so much.

00:46:18.000 Well, you're not a casual.

00:46:20.000 Look at him.

00:46:21.000 He's dancing.

00:46:22.000 He thought it was...

00:46:23.000 Now, walk through and look at his face when he sees Tyson get up.

00:46:26.000 Like, they start counting, and he's like, this fight is fucking over!

00:46:30.000 I don't know if they're gonna show it here, but there's a look where you see Deontay's face right there.

00:46:35.000 He's like, aw, shit.

00:46:36.000 I don't believe this.

00:46:37.000 Let me start breathing differently.

00:46:39.000 Let me start breathing differently, because I gotta go finish the job here.

00:46:42.000 Yeah.

00:46:43.000 And then he gets up, and, you know, Deontay, I'm sure, thought he was going to put him away.

00:46:47.000 He puts everybody away.

00:46:48.000 But they're talking now about Deontay versus, I think they're talking about Andy Ruiz.

00:46:54.000 That's a great one, too.

00:46:55.000 That's a great one.

00:46:55.000 But they might be also talking about Deontay and Usyk, because I think Usyk is open now.

00:47:01.000 I just hope they put that fight together.

00:47:04.000 Just figure it out, boys.

00:47:05.000 That's the fight.

00:47:06.000 The fight's Tyson Fury and Usyk.

00:47:08.000 It's the undisputed World Heavyweight Championship.

00:47:11.000 Deontay Wilder training as promoter cancels another Vegas date.

00:47:15.000 Okay.

00:47:16.000 So Andy Ruiz Jr. potentially is now canceled.

00:47:19.000 See, that's the thing that boxing does.

00:47:21.000 It drives me nuts.

00:47:22.000 They set these fights up.

00:47:23.000 They get your dick hard.

00:47:25.000 Right.

00:47:25.000 And then they pull them away from you like fucking Lucy with this football.

00:47:28.000 Yeah.

00:47:29.000 Yeah.

00:47:29.000 That's right.

00:47:30.000 That's right.

00:47:31.000 But I think the thing is, like the Crawford Spence date, it's like we're floating the date of June 17th.

00:47:37.000 It's like...

00:47:38.000 Alright.

00:47:39.000 Because that gets everybody's hopes up for it.

00:47:41.000 And then they go, well, now we've got to negotiate.

00:47:43.000 We've got to come to the table.

00:47:44.000 And it's like, yeah, how's that going to go?

00:47:47.000 It didn't go well last time.

00:47:48.000 And as a result, Terrence, I think, just got frustrated with the negotiations.

00:47:52.000 He's like, I'm just going to fight somebody.

00:47:53.000 You don't think I'm...

00:47:54.000 I'll walk away.

00:47:55.000 I'll go fight somebody else.

00:47:56.000 You're saying it's April Fool's because they reported on April 1st?

00:48:00.000 Is that what they're saying?

00:48:00.000 I was trying to figure it out, too.

00:48:02.000 This is the best I could get.

00:48:03.000 The last he said is, it's April Fool's.

00:48:06.000 Yeah, what does that mean?

00:48:08.000 So they announced April 22nd during Javante Davis.

00:48:11.000 Oh, so it will be announced.

00:48:13.000 So they're hoping it will be announced.

00:48:14.000 If Crawford isn't playing around, it will disappoint many fans who want to see him fight Spence.

00:48:17.000 Yeah, that's the big fight at welterweight.

00:48:19.000 That's a big fight.

00:48:21.000 Right.

00:48:21.000 But I think if they don't make the fight, then they have to fight the number one contender then.

00:48:28.000 There's Virgil Ortiz at 147. There's Boots Ennis, who's a guy out of Philly who's unreal.

00:48:32.000 Boots Ennis is amazing.

00:48:33.000 Okay, so you've got to fight that...

00:48:34.000 Yeah.

00:48:34.000 Why are the mandatories not being forced, is my question.

00:48:38.000 I think it's just money.

00:48:39.000 They're just trying to make the biggest fights possible.

00:48:40.000 Well, the problem is that you have these individual promoters, and you have these, there's too many IBF, WBC, these sanctioning organizations, and it's like, you have to force, you have to force these fights.

00:48:51.000 Yeah.

00:48:51.000 You can't, I understand that ticket sales and all that stuff is important, but if you want to maintain your integrity as a sport, You have to force these fights.

00:49:00.000 Boots Ennis should not be sitting there as the number one contender for five years.

00:49:04.000 Right, exactly.

00:49:05.000 Good point.

00:49:05.000 And also, the world needs to know how good Boots Ennis is.

00:49:09.000 Yes!

00:49:09.000 When you watch that guy fight, switch stances, and ooh, he's such an artist in there.

00:49:14.000 He's so exciting.

00:49:15.000 Yeah.

00:49:16.000 And hopefully people catch on, but you do run the risk of a guy like that not being recognized because he's in this sort of Weird situation where other people are getting shots and he doesn't.

00:49:26.000 Right.

00:49:27.000 But it's a weird situation because I think Teddy Atlas has said this on multiple occasions.

00:49:31.000 It's structured badly.

00:49:33.000 The sport is structured badly.

00:49:34.000 Whereas like in UFC, it's Dana making the decisions.

00:49:38.000 Yeah.

00:49:38.000 And you need that.

00:49:39.000 You need a guy at the top going, now this is going to happen.

00:49:43.000 And if you don't want it to happen, or if a guy's having personal problems, like Jon Jones or whatever that was, like, okay, I mean, you're still a legend, and you will get the shot when you're ready to come back, but the show goes on.

00:49:55.000 Tom Brady, you know, gets hurt, rips his knee, football doesn't stop.

00:50:00.000 Right.

00:50:01.000 You know?

00:50:01.000 Yeah.

00:50:02.000 There's a great advantage that the UFC has in being the promoter.

00:50:05.000 And so it's the organization, it's the sanctioning body, and it's also the promoter.

00:50:09.000 Right.

00:50:09.000 But it does take away leverage from the fighters.

00:50:12.000 Like, you can't say, I want 70-30.

00:50:15.000 You can't say...

00:50:16.000 Right.

00:50:18.000 There's too many promoters and there's too many world titles.

00:50:20.000 But the opposite is the UFC where it's like there's really only one title that means something.

00:50:25.000 There's Bellator titles and One FC titles, but what everybody wants to be is the UFC champion of the world.

00:50:33.000 That's what everybody wants to be.

00:50:34.000 Everybody.

00:50:35.000 Nobody says, I'd rather be the Bellator champion.

00:50:37.000 No disrespect to Bellator.

00:50:38.000 Yeah.

00:50:39.000 But the reality is, that's not the same.

00:50:42.000 Right.

00:50:42.000 And the real reality is, there's fighters in Bellator that are world championship UFC caliber fighters.

00:50:48.000 And they might not ever get their due.

00:50:52.000 Right.

00:50:52.000 And they might lose their competitive prime competing against other people in an organization where less people are going to watch, and maybe even more importantly, less people are going to respect.

00:51:01.000 Right.

00:51:03.000 But in boxing, you know, you can't fight once a year.

00:51:08.000 No.

00:51:08.000 You can't fight once every 18 months and expect me to still be interested in what you're doing.

00:51:12.000 Right.

00:51:12.000 Like, you have to fight more.

00:51:13.000 You have to fight, like, three, to Canelo's credit, three, four times a year.

00:51:19.000 Yeah.

00:51:19.000 I understand these camps are like 12 weeks now, and that's brutal.

00:51:23.000 It's brutal, the preparation, but...

00:51:25.000 You know, three, four times a year.

00:51:28.000 I mean, if you're fighting every two years, it's like it holds up the division.

00:51:32.000 Yep.

00:51:33.000 And it's, you know, it's less competition.

00:51:35.000 It does.

00:51:35.000 And there's so many big fights.

00:51:37.000 The Canelo thing is very interesting, right?

00:51:39.000 Because he loses to Bival and then he comes back and beats Triple G and looks pretty good.

00:51:43.000 But then he had to get wrist surgery.

00:51:45.000 Right.

00:51:45.000 And, you know, then you see what Benavidez did to Plant.

00:51:47.000 Like, Benavidez beat the fuck out of Caleb Plant.

00:51:50.000 Yes, he did.

00:51:50.000 Yeah.

00:51:50.000 And how tough is Caleb Plant?

00:51:52.000 Caleb Plant is so tough and he's a very, very skilled guy.

00:51:55.000 Damn, he's tough.

00:51:56.000 So skilled guy.

00:51:56.000 He was an Olympian.

00:51:57.000 He was an Olympian.

00:51:58.000 So very skilled guy.

00:51:59.000 And for David to do that, it was really impressive.

00:52:02.000 He's a murderous puncher, man.

00:52:04.000 But Caleb has a fucking chin on him, man.

00:52:07.000 Holy shit.

00:52:07.000 He stayed in it and refused to get knocked out and really tried to win the fight.

00:52:11.000 Battered.

00:52:11.000 I mean, he got fucking battered.

00:52:13.000 I'm super impressed with Benavidez.

00:52:16.000 Like, that was a big test for him, and Caleb in the beginning was very slick.

00:52:19.000 But Benavidez just kept pressing and putting it on him, and then towards the latter half of the fight, that's traditionally been a problem with Caleb, that he starts to fade in the later rounds.

00:52:28.000 It's so much energy to keep a guy like that off you, I think.

00:52:31.000 You gotta have power to keep a guy like that off you.

00:52:33.000 Because that guy, Benavidez, and many guys like to have a suffocating style.

00:52:38.000 You can hit him.

00:52:39.000 And that does something to you mentally, I think.

00:52:42.000 Where you hit a guy twice, you hit him with your best stuff, and he just walks.

00:52:45.000 He's walking through it.

00:52:47.000 Walking forward, walking you down.

00:52:49.000 It's like...

00:52:50.000 Alright, I guess this is gonna be, I'm gonna have to move.

00:52:54.000 It's a tremendous amount of energy.

00:52:55.000 I feel like, I wonder if Caleb could do something about his strength and conditioning that takes it to another level.

00:53:01.000 Because I feel like if he could maintain the kind of pace that he has in the early rounds of the Canelo fight, the early rounds of the Benavidez fight, if he can do that, like, man, it's gonna be really hard for people to fuck with him.

00:53:13.000 Yeah.

00:53:13.000 But he has a mark, there's a noticeable slowing down that happens.

00:53:19.000 Right.

00:53:19.000 I wonder if that's psychological.

00:53:21.000 I don't know how you would mimic that pressure, like I've never been in a fight camp before, so I don't know how you would mimic that pressure in sparring.

00:53:29.000 I think it would have to be in strength and conditioning.

00:53:32.000 I think you would have to all out dedicate yourself to taking your VO2 max to a completely new level.

00:53:39.000 Yeah.

00:53:39.000 And you would have to, like, really dedicate yourself in that regard to just absolutely annihilating your boundaries and pushing your strength and conditioning to the point where you can get...

00:53:50.000 Like, there was this guy, B.J. Penn, who's one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time.

00:53:55.000 And there was one point in time where B.J. Penn, he started training with Marv Marinovich.

00:54:00.000 And Marv Marinovich was a fucking...

00:54:03.000 The Marinovichs, like...

00:54:06.000 They had a style of training where they believed that you already have the skill, and what's more important than anything is cardio.

00:54:16.000 And so they would do just ruthless plyometrics.

00:54:19.000 That was the entire camp for whatever amount of weeks that you're doing it.

00:54:25.000 Most of your time was dedicated to strength and conditioning.

00:54:29.000 And it was very systematic, and it was very scientific.

00:54:33.000 Checking your resting heart rate, your heart rate variability, monitoring your recovery, and making sure you're getting the right nutrients and rest and rehydration and all that stuff.

00:54:44.000 But the most important thing was the gas tank.

00:54:46.000 Because you already know how to fight.

00:54:48.000 And what happens in fights, you still know how to fight, but your gas tank starts to fail.

00:54:52.000 And so when BJ Penn was at his prime...

00:54:55.000 In like the, if you look at, there's a bunch of different fights like Diego Sanchez, Sean Shirk, where he was just destroying these guys.

00:55:04.000 He had a limitless gas tank.

00:55:06.000 And he had this incredible skill set that he already had.

00:55:09.000 And there's a good argument for that, that like at a certain level, what's most important is cardio.

00:55:15.000 So there's like several schools of thought when it comes to that.

00:55:17.000 Right, but even with the plyometric and strength, you have to mimic that.

00:55:23.000 In sparring.

00:55:24.000 Yes.

00:55:24.000 You have to mimic that in training so that you can utilize it.

00:55:27.000 Well, they did all that, too.

00:55:28.000 I mean, it wasn't like you only did strength and conditioning, but strength and conditioning was primary.

00:55:33.000 But what's that look like?

00:55:34.000 Is that like a shark bait type situation?

00:55:36.000 We call it in wrestling, shark bait, where one guy in the middle, and they just keep sending you fresh guys.

00:55:41.000 Yeah.

00:55:41.000 They certainly did that.

00:55:43.000 But honestly, most of it was work like plyos, box jumps, all these different things where you just had your ability to work.

00:55:52.000 It was all about your cardio, all about your ability to constantly work.

00:55:57.000 Right.

00:55:58.000 And you already had efficiency in your striking and your grappling, all these different things.

00:56:02.000 And so you would do drills for those things.

00:56:05.000 So you keep all your weapons sharp.

00:56:07.000 But the primary focus was strength and conditioning.

00:56:10.000 And I'm always intrigued by that because it's the most brutal way to do it.

00:56:14.000 It's so hard to stay motivated because sparring is fun.

00:56:17.000 If you're in there sparring, you know, there's something exciting about it.

00:56:21.000 There is nothing fun about box jumps.

00:56:23.000 No, there isn't.

00:56:23.000 There's nothing fun about running hills.

00:56:25.000 Box jumps and running hills till fail.

00:56:29.000 Till fail is the key there.

00:56:31.000 Because everybody thinks, no, no, no, no.

00:56:34.000 It's like the goal is to throw up.

00:56:37.000 Yeah.

00:56:38.000 The goal is to break your body.

00:56:39.000 Yes.

00:56:39.000 And then have it right there where it's broken and then recover.

00:56:43.000 Right.

00:56:43.000 And then get yourself right back there again and recover.

00:56:46.000 And now all of a sudden your threshold bumps up a little more.

00:56:49.000 Right.

00:56:49.000 And so now you can go an extra round.

00:56:51.000 Now you can go an extra minute.

00:56:52.000 Now you can go an extra minute 30. Now you're really pushing it, and now you're seeing these things that used to kill you.

00:56:59.000 Now you can get through them, and at the end you're recovering quicker.

00:57:03.000 And that's the idea.

00:57:04.000 And I wonder if a guy like Caleb Plant, if you could get him to an insane level of cardio, where he could compete at that pace that he does in the early fight, because in the early part of the fight, that guy's slipping.

00:57:16.000 Yes, very skilled guy.

00:57:19.000 He's moving nice, but then he starts standing in front of Benavidez, and then Benavidez, he's so accurate, and he gets his punches around your guard, and up the front, and uppercuts, and jabs.

00:57:33.000 I'm just, I love his style.

00:57:34.000 He throws punches and bunches, too.

00:57:36.000 He's not throwing one punch.

00:57:37.000 No, he smothers you.

00:57:39.000 Yeah.

00:57:39.000 Stays on you.

00:57:40.000 And he's a brutal puncher, too.

00:57:42.000 And at the end of the fight, he didn't even have a scratch on him.

00:57:44.000 No, he didn't.

00:57:44.000 It's crazy.

00:57:45.000 Caleb looked like he'd been through a meat grinder.

00:57:47.000 Yeah, it's really something.

00:57:48.000 So I think that's the fight at 168. Yeah, I think so, too.

00:57:51.000 Is Benavidez Canelo.

00:57:52.000 But everybody's calling for that Bivol Canelo rematch, and I just don't see it.

00:57:58.000 I don't, I think we saw it.

00:58:00.000 Yeah.

00:58:01.000 You know, with some of these fights, it's like, I think we saw it.

00:58:03.000 We don't need a trilogy.

00:58:04.000 Yeah.

00:58:05.000 And I think we saw it.

00:58:06.000 Maybe.

00:58:06.000 You know, but when you've got a champion like Canelo, he thinks he can do it better.

00:58:10.000 And he thinks he's like, okay, I understand what he did, and maybe he knew coming into that fight, because he did have a wrist problem that he had in the Triple G fight, too.

00:58:19.000 So he probably had that problem already.

00:58:22.000 Right.

00:58:22.000 Who knows?

00:58:23.000 But I think for Bival, the big fight is better be-if.

00:58:27.000 Archer Betterbeef is a fucking monster.

00:58:30.000 I saw him fight at the Garden, Joe Smith.

00:58:32.000 Oh, yeah.

00:58:33.000 It was a pro Joe Smith.

00:58:34.000 I was rooting for Joe Smith, you know, New York guy, Long Island, Union, all the Union guys out.

00:58:39.000 Yeah, but the atmosphere is just like, Joe, yeah, let's go, Joe, and then Betterbeef comes in the ring, and the fight starts, and it's just, no disrespect to Joe Smith, he's unbelievable, but it looked like just a man fighting a small child.

00:58:54.000 Yeah.

00:58:54.000 It was just...

00:58:56.000 Brutal, man.

00:58:57.000 Better be of his.

00:58:58.000 And he gets no headlines.

00:59:00.000 He gets no headlines.

00:59:01.000 I know.

00:59:02.000 And what is he, like 19-0 at 19 knockouts?

00:59:05.000 He's the only, I think it's 19, he's the only boxer at a world championship level that stopped every single one of his opponents in every fight he's ever been in.

00:59:15.000 And he's super skillful, but he fights like a fucking destroyer.

00:59:18.000 Just moves straight towards you.

00:59:20.000 That Russian style.

00:59:21.000 19-0 with 19 knockouts.

00:59:24.000 Fucking crazy!

00:59:26.000 The Anthony Yard fight, like, holy fuck, man.

00:59:28.000 I think Anthony Yard was happy just to go that far into the fight.

00:59:32.000 Like, he considers that a win.

00:59:34.000 That's crazy.

00:59:34.000 Probably.

00:59:35.000 Because Betterbeev is so tough.

00:59:37.000 Nobody knows who he is.

00:59:38.000 If it wasn't for people talking about him in YouTube clips, he gets zero press.

00:59:42.000 He gets zero press, and they ask him about, have you seen this guy fight?

00:59:47.000 What about this guy?

00:59:47.000 He's like, I'm not really a boxing fan.

00:59:50.000 That's what he said.

00:59:51.000 That's what he said.

00:59:52.000 He goes, I'm not really a boxing fan.

00:59:54.000 I just like to focus on my family.

00:59:55.000 That's crazy.

00:59:56.000 And that accent is like, bro, you're like, nah, I'm just kind of focused on my family.

00:59:59.000 Boxing is my job.

01:00:01.000 It's funny when you hear him talk.

01:00:01.000 A lot of those guys have that mentality where it's like, boxing is my job.

01:00:04.000 And I guess he kind of, that's how it keeps him sane because his work rate is fucking preposterous.

01:00:10.000 I mean, you ever see that guy train?

01:00:12.000 Holy shit, man.

01:00:13.000 He's a monster.

01:00:14.000 He's a monster.

01:00:15.000 And then when you hear him talk, he's so, like, respectful and low-key.

01:00:20.000 It's weird watching that demon come out when he gets inside the ring.

01:00:23.000 Yeah.

01:00:24.000 It just looks like he doesn't, and a lot of these Russians have that, where it looks like it's just workmanlike.

01:00:29.000 They don't have, like, the emotion that we do here in the West.

01:00:32.000 It looks like they're just in there, and regardless of what you throw at them, it's just workmanlike what they're gonna do.

01:00:39.000 It's pretty crazy.

01:00:40.000 Well, it's, you know, they're coming from a hard world.

01:00:42.000 He's from Chechnya.

01:00:44.000 Yeah.

01:00:44.000 That is a fucking hard world.

01:00:47.000 There's something about those European or Eastern Bloc, like from Soviet Union, former Soviet Union guys, and from Russia and Dagestan.

01:00:56.000 They're so tough.

01:00:58.000 So tough.

01:00:59.000 There's something to be said.

01:01:01.000 It's just like kids from the ghetto in the United States.

01:01:03.000 Those are the best fighters.

01:01:05.000 People who just came from the heart, like Mike Tyson coming from Brownsville.

01:01:09.000 Those are the people.

01:01:10.000 From Bedford Stuy, those are the people that are just the fucking monsters in there.

01:01:13.000 And then with the training, with the training also, it hones that.

01:01:17.000 You know, I think there should be something that would help boxing.

01:01:21.000 You watch Showtime has all access now.

01:01:25.000 HBO used to have 24-7, the documentary series.

01:01:29.000 I think that should be for every fight.

01:01:31.000 It would make boxing far more popular because these guys have such impressive stories.

01:01:39.000 And to tell that story, it's like there's documentaries about everything now, about nonsense.

01:01:44.000 It's like...

01:01:45.000 They should have a documentary for each fight because you want to see their journey, like where they came from.

01:01:51.000 It's really something to see a kid who has nothing, born into extreme poverty, become a world champion.

01:01:56.000 Like Javante Davis.

01:01:58.000 Coming from poverty, his story to being a world champion.

01:02:02.000 It's an inspiring story.

01:02:03.000 It is and it's great for everyone because it gives you fuel.

01:02:07.000 Like for a person who's coming up in life, even if you're not a fighter, you see what someone's gone through and you see the success of that hard work has created and it can be a roadmap for your own life.

01:02:18.000 It really can be.

01:02:19.000 It translates.

01:02:20.000 Oh man, for sure.

01:02:22.000 And that's what Goggins Goggins is my favorite.

01:02:25.000 He's my favorite guy, man.

01:02:26.000 I watch all this stuff I put on there's this thing on now YouTube called Goggins motivation So I'll be stretching and it's just him talking.

01:02:33.000 Yeah, it's just he's unreal man No, he's unreal and that's that guy you want to talk about mental toughness that guy's destroyed knees Yeah, and he runs thousands of miles.

01:02:44.000 It's just like every day He's running 15 20 right every day right destroyed knees But he's taken his life where he came from, which is a terrible, terrible situation, and transformed himself.

01:02:56.000 That's what I love about him.

01:02:57.000 And he's able to articulate it.

01:03:00.000 And he does it very well.

01:03:02.000 And he also talks about mental toughness in a way that I've never heard anybody talk about mental toughness.

01:03:06.000 You know, when I was growing up, maybe it's the same for you.

01:03:08.000 It's like, you gotta be mentally tough.

01:03:10.000 You gotta be mentally tough.

01:03:11.000 You gotta suck it up.

01:03:12.000 Suck it up.

01:03:12.000 And it's like, you're processing that, but he breaks down what does that actually mean in the suck, which is what he called it.

01:03:19.000 You know what I mean?

01:03:20.000 Like, it's that conversation that you're having with yourself that we all have with ourselves when we're suffering.

01:03:25.000 Well, what Dave does is he does it in silence.

01:03:28.000 Like, there's no one around.

01:03:29.000 He's doing it.

01:03:30.000 No one's forced him to do it.

01:03:31.000 And he does it because he wants to learn about himself.

01:03:35.000 Right.

01:03:35.000 And the way I've had conversations with him about it where he goes, I'm getting that deep knowledge.

01:03:40.000 When I'm suffering, when I'm out there running those miles, I get that deep knowledge.

01:03:43.000 I'm downloading information.

01:03:45.000 I'm like...

01:03:46.000 The way he's thinking about it, like, his fucking heart is pounding, his knees are aching.

01:03:50.000 Yeah.

01:03:51.000 He doesn't want to keep going, but he's, like, finding his own threshold, finding his own limitations, and then knowing that he can push through that because he's done it before.

01:04:00.000 I mean, he's almost died, like, multiple times.

01:04:03.000 Yeah.

01:04:03.000 Rhabdo and doing those 200-mile races and pissing fucking Diet Coke out of his dick.

01:04:08.000 Right.

01:04:09.000 So that's what it looks like.

01:04:10.000 Your body's breaking down.

01:04:11.000 Your kidneys are breaking down.

01:04:13.000 And, you know, the guy goes to the hospital.

01:04:15.000 He ran, I think it was the Moab 240. They had to take him out of the race because he got rhabdo.

01:04:21.000 So he goes to the hospital, recovers, goes back to the spot where they had to pull him, and finishes the race.

01:04:28.000 God, I love that.

01:04:29.000 He's like, you're not beating me.

01:04:31.000 That's so great.

01:04:32.000 He's like, I'm going to complete this fucking race, even if it's two weeks later.

01:04:36.000 Yeah.

01:04:37.000 Yeah, drop me off at the spot where I stopped.

01:04:38.000 That's amazing.

01:04:39.000 Yeah.

01:04:40.000 It's inspiring.

01:04:41.000 It's very, very inspiring.

01:04:42.000 It's also him talking about shutting out the noise.

01:04:44.000 Because that's the society we live in now.

01:04:47.000 There's a lot of noise around.

01:04:48.000 There's a lot of things that can addict you.

01:04:51.000 I think you have to be more disciplined now than ever.

01:04:54.000 For the kids coming up too, all this stuff wasn't around when we were coming up.

01:04:58.000 It's like social media and all this other stuff that's just not good for you.

01:05:03.000 He talks about going silent and just quieting your mind and focusing.

01:05:08.000 On the other hand, for fighters, the good aspect of the digital world that we live in now is you have access to like Marvin Hagler versus Tommy Hearns.

01:05:18.000 You know, you could watch Vito Anafermo fight.

01:05:20.000 You can watch all these people from bygone days where you could see their technique and their movement and what they did.

01:05:27.000 And you can get inspiration from that instantaneously off your phone.

01:05:31.000 Yes.

01:05:32.000 I do love that.

01:05:33.000 Fuck, it's incredible.

01:05:34.000 And that's why people are so good today.

01:05:36.000 In everything.

01:05:37.000 Right.

01:05:37.000 In everything.

01:05:38.000 In comedy.

01:05:39.000 You're seeing these comedians.

01:05:40.000 I'm watching these fucking door guys that we have hired at the mothership.

01:05:43.000 And these fucking guys are like three years in.

01:05:45.000 And they're like, I just watch comedy on YouTube.

01:05:48.000 I'm constantly watching comedy.

01:05:49.000 And you're watching them on stage like...

01:05:50.000 These guys are kind of advanced.

01:05:52.000 For three years in, I was fucking terrible.

01:05:54.000 I was terrible three years in.

01:05:56.000 And these guys are doing really well.

01:05:58.000 They have good structure.

01:06:00.000 Their jokes are written well.

01:06:01.000 Good stage presence.

01:06:02.000 They have an understanding of it that's a next level because they've seen the Rodney Dangerfields, the Eddie Murphy, the Chris Rock.

01:06:09.000 They've seen all these people and they get a sense of what it's all about.

01:06:13.000 Whereas those guys had to get it from being in the clubs.

01:06:16.000 Only from being in the clubs.

01:06:18.000 These guys, before they even step into a club, have, like, an education in stand-up comedy.

01:06:24.000 Right.

01:06:24.000 And that's the beautiful thing about the digital world.

01:06:27.000 Yeah.

01:06:27.000 It's just, this thing requires discipline.

01:06:29.000 Yes, it does.

01:06:29.000 It requires a lot of fucking discipline.

01:06:31.000 And if you don't have that, you're gonna get sucked in.

01:06:33.000 Right.

01:06:34.000 You know, and I see it.

01:06:35.000 I see it with my own kids.

01:06:37.000 We have to take their phones away when we eat dinner.

01:06:39.000 Like, come on, put the phone over here.

01:06:40.000 That's great.

01:06:41.000 On the counter, we're all going to sit down and have a meal together.

01:06:43.000 We take it away from them on Sundays.

01:06:45.000 No phones.

01:06:46.000 We're all hanging out.

01:06:47.000 Let's just do it this way.

01:06:48.000 But if you leave them a phone, they'll, I'm just going to put it on my chair.

01:06:51.000 Okay.

01:06:52.000 And then you see them checking TikTok.

01:06:53.000 Get out of there!

01:06:54.000 Get out of there, you little fuck.

01:06:56.000 Stop looking at that.

01:06:57.000 You'd be surprised how many families don't have those rules.

01:07:00.000 Yeah, you got to have those rules.

01:07:01.000 You got to have the rules.

01:07:02.000 And they have to see it with you.

01:07:04.000 That's what's important.

01:07:05.000 They have to see the parents can leave it alone.

01:07:08.000 If the parents are hanging out with them and they're not paying attention, that's a problem.

01:07:12.000 It's easy to do.

01:07:14.000 With me, I would make excuses like, I gotta work, I gotta answer these emails, I gotta do this.

01:07:19.000 Which is true, but still not.

01:07:22.000 Don't do it.

01:07:24.000 We all have problems.

01:07:25.000 These are the most addictive things in terms of attention that anybody's ever experienced in history.

01:07:30.000 Yeah.

01:07:31.000 Absolutely.

01:07:31.000 Because, you know, you're doing your job, whatever.

01:07:34.000 It's a little vacation, you know, to go and scroll and take your mind off everything.

01:07:39.000 But it just, you're right.

01:07:40.000 What you said, you nailed it.

01:07:41.000 It's like it sucks you in.

01:07:42.000 It sucks you in.

01:07:43.000 But there's so much good information out there.

01:07:45.000 That's really true.

01:07:46.000 On how to improve your life.

01:07:48.000 Yeah.

01:07:48.000 Like it's right there.

01:07:49.000 Oh, yeah.

01:07:49.000 And then references on books you can read and all kinds of other stuff where you can like, oh, no, let me get focused here.

01:07:55.000 And there's also plenty of people talking about the dangers of addiction to social media.

01:07:59.000 Yeah.

01:08:00.000 Where you really can get an understanding of.

01:08:03.000 It's not like it's just sneaking up on you.

01:08:05.000 Everybody kind of knows what's happening while it's happening.

01:08:07.000 And then it's up to you.

01:08:09.000 Either you set up a screen time thing where you only have an hour on this app and after a while it just shuts you out.

01:08:18.000 Or you just decide, like, I'm going to get things done, you know, and if I'm gonna look at social media for 10 minutes or whatever the fuck it is, that's my little reward.

01:08:28.000 Just don't get sucked in.

01:08:30.000 I do it in the morning.

01:08:31.000 It's a real problem in the morning for me.

01:08:33.000 Because I take a shit when I wake up, right?

01:08:36.000 So I take a shit, I got that phone, and next thing you know, I'm like, it doesn't take 20 minutes to take a shit, stupid.

01:08:41.000 Like, what are you doing in here?

01:08:42.000 You're just pretending to be going to the bathroom while you're scrolling through social media.

01:08:47.000 Isn't that something that you have to have that truthful conversation with yourself?

01:08:51.000 Still to this day.

01:08:52.000 Yeah.

01:08:53.000 And it's good that you can call yourself out on that.

01:08:55.000 I was like lying to myself in there.

01:08:57.000 I was lying to myself.

01:08:58.000 Yeah.

01:08:59.000 I lie to myself every morning.

01:09:01.000 I'm like, I'm just going to check it real quick.

01:09:03.000 Don't you do a cold plunge?

01:09:04.000 Yeah.

01:09:05.000 Yeah, man, do that thing first.

01:09:06.000 That cold plunge, you're not thinking about anything else.

01:09:09.000 Yeah, I do the cold plunge, but I usually have to go to the bathroom first.

01:09:12.000 That's the problem.

01:09:13.000 I don't go to the bathroom without my phone.

01:09:15.000 So sometimes I'll wake up at 8 o'clock and it's 8.40 before I get in the water.

01:09:21.000 Like, why did it take so long?

01:09:22.000 Well, because I had to say hi to the dog.

01:09:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:09:25.000 I had to get up.

01:09:26.000 But plus you're not rushing to get to that water either.

01:09:28.000 No.

01:09:29.000 No.

01:09:30.000 I do it every day, but I don't want to do it every day.

01:09:32.000 So every day, like, as I'm walking towards, there's all this self-talk where my brain's like, come on, man.

01:09:38.000 You don't have to do this.

01:09:39.000 And then there's the other part of me is going, shut the fuck up.

01:09:42.000 Just get in there.

01:09:43.000 And I always do it.

01:09:45.000 But that talk, it's never like I'm looking forward to it.

01:09:49.000 It's a smooth walk there.

01:09:51.000 There's no mental hiccups.

01:09:53.000 That's happened zero fucking times.

01:09:56.000 I love that.

01:09:56.000 Every fucking time I've gone, walk toward that thing, pick up the lid, I'm like, oh my god, are you really doing this?

01:10:01.000 I set the timer on and my foot hits the water.

01:10:04.000 I'm like, okay, we're in.

01:10:06.000 But once I'm in, it's fine.

01:10:08.000 Once I'm in, it's fine.

01:10:10.000 But there's always that moment, like 30 seconds in, where your body's like, let's get the fuck out of here.

01:10:15.000 And you're like, hey, shut up, pussy.

01:10:17.000 We're in here for three minutes, no matter what happens.

01:10:20.000 So just fuck And then when I get out, I'm always happier.

01:10:24.000 Yes.

01:10:24.000 But it's just that fucking talk that you have to have in your brain while you get up there.

01:10:31.000 Like, I know I'm not gonna listen.

01:10:32.000 I know that inner bitch is not going to win.

01:10:36.000 That's power though, man.

01:10:37.000 But that motherfucker is so persistent.

01:10:39.000 I love it though.

01:10:40.000 Every day he's like, come on.

01:10:42.000 We don't have to do this.

01:10:42.000 That's the power, man.

01:10:44.000 Overcoming it.

01:10:44.000 It never goes away.

01:10:45.000 Not listening to it.

01:10:46.000 Like, nah, we're going to do this.

01:10:47.000 Yeah.

01:10:47.000 We're going to do this.

01:10:48.000 And I think that lends you power to other parts of your life.

01:10:50.000 Oh, it definitely does.

01:10:52.000 It's really great.

01:10:52.000 I do cold showers.

01:10:53.000 You know, I don't have a plunge, but I do cold showers and it's never pleasant.

01:10:57.000 Cold showers in the East Coast are rough.

01:11:00.000 I do the steam and then I'll just, no matter what, I'll put it on and just do the Wim Hof, do the breathing in the cold.

01:11:07.000 The problem with Texas is the water never really gets cold enough.

01:11:10.000 No.

01:11:10.000 It does in the winter.

01:11:11.000 It gets pretty cold.

01:11:12.000 I've taken some cold showers in the winter.

01:11:14.000 I'm like, ooh, it's pretty cold.

01:11:15.000 But it's not enough.

01:11:17.000 It's just...

01:11:18.000 The cold shower here is mildly unpleasant.

01:11:21.000 I want brutal.

01:11:23.000 I know.

01:11:23.000 I want brutal.

01:11:24.000 And it's like...

01:11:26.000 Getting through that, at the beginning of the day, first of all, it raises up your dopamine, like Andrew Huberman and Susanna Soberg have put out all these scientific papers and podcasts and have all these discussions about the benefits for your dopamine increases 200%,

01:11:41.000 it lasts for hours, norepinephrine, all these real tangible benefits.

01:11:46.000 The resilience, like having the ability to say to that inner bitch, fuck you.

01:11:52.000 If you watched me, you would think, oh my god, this guy's so stoic.

01:11:55.000 He's a soldier.

01:11:56.000 He just walks in that thing every day.

01:11:57.000 But you don't know what's going on in my head.

01:11:59.000 In my head, I'm like, come on, pussy.

01:12:01.000 I love that.

01:12:01.000 Let's go have a coffee first.

01:12:03.000 That's so great.

01:12:04.000 That's like Gog is looking at his shoes for four hours.

01:12:06.000 Exactly.

01:12:06.000 Looking at his shoes for four hours.

01:12:08.000 Sometimes I stare at those motherfuckers for a half hour before I put them on.

01:12:12.000 But he just lets you know.

01:12:14.000 You're never going to win that battle.

01:12:17.000 You always win, but you're never going to not have that inner conversation where the comfort...

01:12:22.000 Everybody wants that comfort.

01:12:24.000 It's just being the boss.

01:12:26.000 My friend John Joseph always says, when it's time to tell, your mind tells your body who the fuck's the boss.

01:12:33.000 And that's really what it is.

01:12:35.000 It's a philosophy.

01:12:36.000 It's a mental philosophy that you have to have and you have to implement.

01:12:39.000 Yeah.

01:12:39.000 Yeah, but if you have the philosophy, that's the first, that's it.

01:12:42.000 As long as you adhere to it.

01:12:44.000 As long as you adhere to it.

01:12:46.000 But boy, it's so easy to not do it.

01:12:48.000 Like, today I got some stem cells shot in my knee, and I can't do the cold plunge for 72 hours.

01:12:53.000 So for 72 hours, I get to be a bitch.

01:12:56.000 But the problem is, in my head, I know, three days from now, that fucking cold plunge is like, hey pussy, remember me?

01:13:03.000 It's even colder now.

01:13:05.000 That's That's great.

01:13:05.000 I'm feeling that too when I'm in a warm climate like this and then go back to New York and hit those cold showers there.

01:13:10.000 I'm gonna feel it.

01:13:11.000 Yeah, it's gonna be a wake-up.

01:13:12.000 Yeah.

01:13:13.000 If you get to a point where you got a yard and you can get a cold plunge, I can't recommend it enough.

01:13:18.000 It's so...

01:13:19.000 And a sauna.

01:13:20.000 If you have the two of them.

01:13:21.000 Yeah.

01:13:21.000 Because they both test you in a different way.

01:13:23.000 Right.

01:13:23.000 A sauna's 20 minutes, you know, and at 189 degrees, which is what I... That's my sweet spot.

01:13:28.000 When I get to like 15 minutes and I check my watch, I'm like, fuck.

01:13:33.000 Those last five minutes are rough.

01:13:35.000 They're rough.

01:13:36.000 But I think it does elevate your mood and it really does fight depression.

01:13:40.000 100%.

01:13:40.000 It really does fight depression.

01:13:42.000 It's crazy.

01:13:43.000 It's kind of crazy that struggle fights depression.

01:13:46.000 But it really does.

01:13:47.000 If you don't have any physical struggle in your life and you're just dealing with the anxiety of existence, that's what I find when I get hurt.

01:13:56.000 When I get injured and I have to take a few days off, I'm like, boy, do I rely on that for my mood.

01:14:01.000 Yeah.

01:14:03.000 Overcome adversity and deal with all the bullshit of pressure of life, right?

01:14:08.000 But adversity is necessary and that thing that's the things been kind of overrun today in society the society that we live in now people don't recognize that I don't think All of my friends who don't do anything physical, they're the ones who struggle the most mentally.

01:14:23.000 Right.

01:14:23.000 I have so many friends that have so many weird mental problems, anxiety problems, especially comics, that don't do anything physically.

01:14:32.000 But the ones that do something physically, they have such an advantage.

01:14:36.000 Right.

01:14:37.000 Because you're calmer.

01:14:38.000 It's like you're taking a drug that allows you to deal with the bullshit.

01:14:42.000 Right.

01:14:42.000 Mind-body connection's huge.

01:14:43.000 Yeah.

01:14:44.000 It is real.

01:14:45.000 Yeah.

01:14:45.000 And unfortunately, a lot of smart people don't recognize that because they're so concentrated on the mind.

01:14:50.000 They think of the body and concentrating on the body being frivolous.

01:14:53.000 But it's not.

01:14:55.000 It's actually the mind that you're strengthening by concentrating on the body.

01:14:59.000 Because it's your will, which is a part of your mind.

01:15:02.000 Everyone thinks your mind is just calculus and learning how to write and learning language.

01:15:07.000 No, no, no, no.

01:15:08.000 The mind is also will.

01:15:10.000 It's also dedication.

01:15:11.000 It's also discipline.

01:15:13.000 And that is your mind.

01:15:15.000 And the mental strength you get from physical activities applies to mental pursuits and to intellectual pursuits.

01:15:22.000 Yeah.

01:15:23.000 Absolutely.

01:15:24.000 I could feel it.

01:15:25.000 I could feel my mood change when I do those right things, you know?

01:15:28.000 Oh, yeah.

01:15:28.000 Definitely.

01:15:29.000 Green juice in the morning, that's another big thing.

01:15:31.000 Nutribullet.

01:15:31.000 Oh, yeah.

01:15:32.000 Okay.

01:15:32.000 Spinach, celery, cucumber, lemon, ginger.

01:15:36.000 You gotta be careful with that stuff, though.

01:15:38.000 One of the things that I've found that I didn't know when I used to drink a lot of kale shakes is you get a high level of oxalates from that stuff, from non-cooked vegetables.

01:15:47.000 And some people, not everyone, but some people develop kidney stones and things along those lines.

01:15:54.000 Yeah, oxalates can be a problem.

01:15:57.000 When you're grinding up kale and spinach and eating it raw, you're taking an exorbitant amount of oxalates.

01:16:05.000 I just love those raw vegetables and that lemon just like kicks you too, man.

01:16:08.000 It just sets the tone to eat better for the rest of the day too.

01:16:11.000 Sure.

01:16:11.000 I generally just take athletic greens and most of my diet is just meat.

01:16:18.000 It's like the majority of my diet is meat and fruit.

01:16:20.000 I would say like Occasionally, I'll have a piece of bread.

01:16:23.000 Occasionally, I'll have a dessert.

01:16:25.000 Occasionally, I allow myself little treats, but the vast bulk, probably like 90% of what I eat is just wild game meat, ribeye steaks, and fruit.

01:16:36.000 That's it.

01:16:36.000 What about olive oil?

01:16:37.000 I love all of it.

01:16:38.000 Yeah, it's great too.

01:16:39.000 I made that mistake on a keto diet too, not satiating myself with enough fats.

01:16:45.000 You know what I mean?

01:16:46.000 So, you make that mistake and then you stray off it and people go, well, if you start eating about the keto diet, you start eating carbs again, you gain the weight right back.

01:16:55.000 It's like, go figure.

01:16:56.000 Well, the keto diet is a weird one because it seems very culty to me.

01:17:00.000 Yeah.

01:17:00.000 All the people that are in the keto, it's like there's something about it.

01:17:03.000 It just becomes, there's great benefits to it.

01:17:06.000 There's great benefits to elevating your ketones for mental clarity, for your energy levels through the day.

01:17:13.000 And, you know, I've had Dom D'Agostino on the podcast, who's a scientist out of Florida, who's a very interesting guy because he's super fit, like really like very strong, very athletic.

01:17:24.000 And adheres to a keto diet, which is unusual for a scientist to be that jacked and that dedicated to working out, but also very, very educated in the pros and benefits and the studies that show that there's real benefits to just living off of fats,

01:17:42.000 and that's probably what most of our ancestors did back in the day before agriculture and grains and things like that.

01:17:49.000 But cutting sugars is huge.

01:17:51.000 It is.

01:17:52.000 It really is.

01:17:52.000 It slows you down.

01:17:53.000 And I used to get ferociously hungry.

01:17:56.000 And I was like, is it because I'm lifting too much?

01:17:58.000 It's like, no, no, no, no.

01:17:59.000 It's your sugars.

01:18:00.000 Your sugars are too high.

01:18:01.000 We gotta cut.

01:18:02.000 We're all addicted to sugar.

01:18:04.000 I'm sure you've seen those pictures of people from the 1960s.

01:18:07.000 On the beach versus like 2020 on the beach.

01:18:10.000 And it's like, what the fuck happened?

01:18:12.000 Sugar happened.

01:18:13.000 Corn syrup happened.

01:18:15.000 Processed carbohydrates.

01:18:17.000 That's what happened.

01:18:17.000 The high fructose corn syrup is the worst, man.

01:18:20.000 Kills you.

01:18:20.000 It's in everything.

01:18:21.000 It's so nuts how many things have corn in it.

01:18:23.000 Have you ever seen that documentary, King Corn?

01:18:25.000 No.

01:18:26.000 Great fucking documentary.

01:18:27.000 But the documentary goes over, like, all the different things that have corn in them.

01:18:33.000 Yeah.

01:18:33.000 And that it's because corn is subsidized, because corn is a cheap substitute for things, and you can add it to stuff for corn sweetener and, you know...

01:18:41.000 It's just in everything.

01:18:42.000 And your body doesn't do anything with it.

01:18:44.000 Your body's like, what is this?

01:18:46.000 That's why you shit out corn.

01:18:48.000 When you look at corn in the toilet, that's because your body's like, what the fuck is this?

01:18:51.000 You don't find watermelon in there.

01:18:55.000 Watermelon just gets absorbed by your body.

01:18:58.000 Your body knows what to do with it.

01:18:59.000 It's normal.

01:19:00.000 Your body with corn is like, what the fuck is this thing?

01:19:04.000 Feeling good every day is the goal.

01:19:07.000 Feel good every day and you'll be able to do great things.

01:19:10.000 You gotta feel good every day.

01:19:12.000 Yeah, you just gotta take care of your body.

01:19:14.000 That's something that, unfortunately, with comics...

01:19:16.000 You want some coffee?

01:19:17.000 Yeah, I'll take some.

01:19:17.000 The thing about comics is a lot of us are fucking impulsive.

01:19:21.000 You're spending the night at the clubs drinking and partying and hanging out with a bunch of other assholes and everybody's having fun and it's easy to just...

01:19:31.000 And also you're a creative.

01:19:32.000 You know, you're a creative type and creative types, you know, tend to be by nature less disciplined.

01:19:37.000 And more indulgent.

01:19:38.000 Yeah.

01:19:39.000 So if you could just keep the discipline.

01:19:40.000 Yeah.

01:19:41.000 Yeah, they're not mutually exclusive.

01:19:43.000 People want to think that creativity and discipline like they fight against each other.

01:19:48.000 They don't.

01:19:50.000 It's just impulsive people, they tend to fuck things off and not do them.

01:19:54.000 It's also like why you got into comedy in the first place, because you didn't want a job.

01:19:58.000 You didn't want to grind.

01:20:00.000 And so you figured out, like, well, I'm not being a garbage man.

01:20:03.000 That sucks.

01:20:04.000 I'm going to go to open mic night.

01:20:05.000 And you figure out how to make- I'm a star!

01:20:08.000 Yeah!

01:20:09.000 I'm special!

01:20:10.000 I'm special!

01:20:11.000 Yeah, that's the weirdest thing, right?

01:20:14.000 And then there's the other thing.

01:20:15.000 That's the thing that happens when you get famous.

01:20:17.000 Like, you have to fight that demon now.

01:20:19.000 I'm sure.

01:20:20.000 I'm sure that's a whole other...

01:20:21.000 It's a whole other thing.

01:20:22.000 And a lot of people crack.

01:20:24.000 There's a lot of Chris Tuckers out there in the world that got really famous and then just like, ah!

01:20:28.000 Martin Lawrence cracked.

01:20:29.000 A lot of people crack.

01:20:31.000 And some of them, it's like legit mental health issues.

01:20:34.000 And some of them, it's just the overwhelming pressure of fame.

01:20:38.000 And, you know, and maintaining...

01:20:40.000 Focus and discipline.

01:20:41.000 And also you got everybody around you that's kissing your ass.

01:20:44.000 That's a big thing.

01:20:44.000 Yeah, you start believing it.

01:20:46.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:20:46.000 That's another big thing.

01:20:47.000 You have a lot of people not telling you the truth.

01:20:49.000 Yeah.

01:20:49.000 And calling yourself out on stuff.

01:20:52.000 Are you ready for that?

01:20:53.000 I think so.

01:20:54.000 Now.

01:20:55.000 I mean, I'm older now.

01:20:57.000 I'm 50. Yeah, that helps.

01:20:59.000 That definitely helps.

01:21:00.000 Back in the day, maybe not.

01:21:02.000 I was always pretty disciplined, but yeah.

01:21:04.000 Yeah, I would not want to get famous at like 18, 19 years old like some of these kids are.

01:21:09.000 Depends how you're raised, too, you know what I mean?

01:21:10.000 If you're raised with that discipline.

01:21:12.000 Like, my father never let me get too out of control.

01:21:15.000 Well, that's good.

01:21:16.000 It was very much like, you think this is all free?

01:21:18.000 Where do we live here?

01:21:19.000 We're living here for free.

01:21:20.000 What do you think this is?

01:21:21.000 You know what I mean?

01:21:22.000 A hotel?

01:21:23.000 Do you think your mother just cooks and does your laundry and it's all for free?

01:21:26.000 I love that.

01:21:26.000 It's like that Italian, you know what I mean?

01:21:28.000 They push it and make sure that you appreciate where you're coming from.

01:21:32.000 Immigrant mentality.

01:21:33.000 Yeah, I had a lot of that growing up.

01:21:35.000 Yeah, that's good for you.

01:21:36.000 That is good for you.

01:21:37.000 But still, some people succumb to that fucking demon.

01:21:41.000 That demon of fame.

01:21:42.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:21:42.000 Look at Elvis.

01:21:43.000 Look at everybody.

01:21:44.000 Everybody cracks.

01:21:45.000 Yeah.

01:21:45.000 It's really interesting.

01:21:47.000 When you think about people like Elvis or Michael Jackson, when they got famous like that, there had been no roadmap.

01:21:54.000 Right.

01:21:54.000 There was no one that famous before them.

01:21:56.000 Right.

01:21:57.000 So it's like all of a sudden you're Elvis Presley.

01:21:59.000 Did you see the movie?

01:22:00.000 I didn't see it.

01:22:01.000 It's fucking good.

01:22:01.000 I didn't see it.

01:22:02.000 It's really good.

01:22:03.000 It's like television, because there was no television.

01:22:06.000 So television changed the game and made these guys international stars.

01:22:11.000 And they weren't used to that.

01:22:13.000 Yeah.

01:22:14.000 I mean, they're doing...

01:22:15.000 All these late night talk shows and they're performing in front of millions of people.

01:22:20.000 Before Elvis came along, no one had ever been really that famous.

01:22:26.000 I don't think there was anybody like that before him.

01:22:31.000 And then this guy's got to figure it out and he's got people handing him pills and he's banging all these broads.

01:22:37.000 Right.

01:22:37.000 Good luck.

01:22:38.000 Yeah.

01:22:39.000 Good luck sorting that out.

01:22:40.000 My favorite Elvis is Elvis on pills doing karate.

01:22:44.000 Those are my favorite Elvis's.

01:22:46.000 I fucking love those videos.

01:22:48.000 Have you seen those videos?

01:22:50.000 No.

01:22:50.000 I've seen him do karate, like to a montage, songs, but I've never seen him actually, just a long stretch of it.

01:22:58.000 I've seen him in a karate outfit doing it.

01:23:00.000 Well, he would wear a karate outfit with One of those big collared shirts on under the gi.

01:23:06.000 That's great.

01:23:06.000 In case you had to perform?

01:23:07.000 I don't even know why he was doing it.

01:23:09.000 He didn't want to be anywhere without his collared shirt.

01:23:12.000 And so, you know, he's clearly high as fuck.

01:23:15.000 And he's doing, like, kind of fake karate.

01:23:19.000 Look at him.

01:23:20.000 He's all pilled up, sweating like a pig.

01:23:22.000 And this was like, look, sunglasses on.

01:23:25.000 Elvis, why do you have sunglasses on?

01:23:27.000 Like, what the fuck is going on?

01:23:29.000 And he was training under a legitimate karate guy in Ed Parker.

01:23:35.000 Like, Ed Parker was the fucking man.

01:23:37.000 I mean, he was like the absolute, legit karate guy.

01:23:41.000 And that's who Elvis got his black belt from.

01:23:44.000 Was it a real black belt?

01:23:46.000 I don't know.

01:23:47.000 You see these demonstrations.

01:23:49.000 Look at this.

01:23:51.000 Watch this.

01:23:52.000 Back that up a little bit.

01:23:53.000 This is what I'm going to do, man.

01:23:54.000 I'm going to put a gun on my back.

01:23:55.000 I'm going to turn them on like this.

01:23:57.000 Look at this.

01:23:58.000 I'm going to turn on them real quick.

01:23:59.000 I mean, it's the dumbest shit of all time.

01:24:01.000 And then I'm going to...

01:24:02.000 Get him right in the face because he's not even going to notice it coming down my elbow and I'm going to trip him here.

01:24:07.000 Like, this is so bad.

01:24:08.000 This is so dumb.

01:24:10.000 By the way, that guy shot you five times already.

01:24:13.000 Your liver has four holes in it.

01:24:15.000 You're dead.

01:24:16.000 It's so dumb.

01:24:18.000 Grab him by the face.

01:24:19.000 What you going to do?

01:24:20.000 I mean, and if you listen to him talk back then, he's like clearly intoxicated.

01:24:25.000 He's just fucked up on downers, just doing karate, feeling like a champ.

01:24:32.000 Now the other side of it is Gary Coleman.

01:24:34.000 Gary Coleman who, that's great.

01:24:37.000 Gary Coleman loses everything and becomes a security guard.

01:24:40.000 Yeah.

01:24:41.000 And then like he's working as a security guard protecting like on a set where Pamela Anderson and a bunch of TMZ guys come in and Gary Coleman launches on, there's video of it, where he launches onto the car and is like, yeah, you're not going anywhere.

01:24:56.000 I actually love that.

01:24:57.000 I love like, A person, especially a famous person who's now doing a menial job, but is doing it to the best of their ability.

01:25:04.000 I love that.

01:25:05.000 There's not a lot of people that become famous and then do a regular job.

01:25:08.000 Yeah.

01:25:09.000 People do get really interested in those people when they do do that.

01:25:12.000 Like, look, he's like one of us again.

01:25:14.000 Yeah.

01:25:14.000 Look.

01:25:15.000 Yeah.

01:25:15.000 But everybody loves to shame that guy.

01:25:17.000 Yeah.

01:25:17.000 Everybody loves to shame him, but I actually, I love that.

01:25:20.000 Isn't that fucked?

01:25:22.000 Isn't that fucked?

01:25:22.000 Because if you just saw a security guy, you'd be like, hey man, what's up?

01:25:25.000 How you doing?

01:25:26.000 I'm going building four.

01:25:27.000 All right, take it easy.

01:25:28.000 It's normal.

01:25:29.000 But if you're like, hey, you're that fucking guy, you fucking loser.

01:25:33.000 Look at you now.

01:25:34.000 Nobody thinks that about a regular security guy.

01:25:37.000 See, a regular security guy is just a guy.

01:25:40.000 But a regular security guy who's on like Falcon Crest, like, oh, look at you, loser.

01:25:45.000 It's weird.

01:25:46.000 Yeah.

01:25:46.000 That's the problem with fame.

01:25:48.000 You don't want to be a has-been.

01:25:50.000 A has-been is worse than it never was.

01:25:52.000 Which is very strange.

01:25:54.000 At least the guy fucking made it for a little while.

01:25:57.000 He's got pictures.

01:25:58.000 And I love the mental focus of the fact that you're doing this job now to the best of your ability.

01:26:03.000 I actually love that a lot.

01:26:05.000 Any menial job, anybody doing any quote-unquote menial job, there's not much money, there's no reason really to excel, but I love there's people who go above and beyond in those jobs, and I actually love that.

01:26:18.000 Yeah, well, there's a stoic discipline to that that's very admirable, to someone who just does the job to the best of their ability and says, how you do one thing is how you do everything.

01:26:29.000 Right.

01:26:29.000 And if you could instill that in a kid, that's a tremendous benefit to have that.

01:26:36.000 Bro, I gotta piss.

01:26:37.000 We'll be right back, folks.

01:26:38.000 You don't get a mugshot because he's the president?

01:26:40.000 Is that what it is?

01:26:42.000 He was the president?

01:26:44.000 I think there's just too much going on.

01:26:46.000 Secret service people, everything, looking at him.

01:26:49.000 Yeah, there's some pictures that I think they're AI-generated of him standing in the street, walking down the street with a giant crowd of people behind him with American flags.

01:26:58.000 I'm like, that's gotta be fake.

01:26:59.000 Is that fake?

01:27:00.000 There was only him, like, he was barely seen walking in and out of a building, I think, like, officially, so I don't know what the AI picture you saw was.

01:27:08.000 It was like him on the street in public, and there's a throng of fans behind him.

01:27:13.000 He's walking on the center of the street.

01:27:14.000 I'm like, that looks fake.

01:27:15.000 You can't tell anymore.

01:27:16.000 No.

01:27:17.000 Well, you saw the fake images of Trump being arrested.

01:27:20.000 Did you see those?

01:27:21.000 Mm-mm.

01:27:21.000 There's, like, all these fake images of them, like, grabbing him.

01:27:24.000 He's screaming, and it's like...

01:27:26.000 They can, there's fake images of him in the orange jumpsuit.

01:27:29.000 Wow.

01:27:29.000 AI can do such insane things now.

01:27:33.000 It can do our jokes.

01:27:34.000 Yeah.

01:27:35.000 See that?

01:27:36.000 Yeah.

01:27:36.000 Where it's like you could just put in a comic.

01:27:38.000 Yeah.

01:27:39.000 And then it just can spit out jokes.

01:27:40.000 Write a joke in Nate Bargatze style talking about going to a baseball game.

01:27:43.000 Yeah.

01:27:44.000 And it'll do it.

01:27:44.000 Yeah.

01:27:45.000 I mean, that's eventually going to get better.

01:27:47.000 It'll get so good that shitty comics can have ChatGPT write their premises and write their material, which is...

01:27:55.000 I guess...

01:27:56.000 I mean...

01:27:57.000 I mean, am I against that?

01:28:00.000 I don't know if I'm against that.

01:28:01.000 I kind of am, because I don't think you get...

01:28:05.000 Like a really unique creative style, like a Jim Gaffigan, a weird, like very specific style.

01:28:11.000 Unless you learn how to do that in front of crowds over and over and over again for years.

01:28:17.000 You know, and that guy, like, you know, he's writing, he's performing, he's trying it, he's fucking around, he's doing all these different things.

01:28:24.000 Like Dave Attell.

01:28:25.000 Every morning that motherfucker gets up with a pack of cigarettes and...

01:28:28.000 And a fucking newspaper and a cup of coffee and he's just like writing things down, going over stuff and fucking with it in his head.

01:28:35.000 The idea that ChatGPT could do that for him, I don't like it.

01:28:39.000 I don't like it either, at all.

01:28:41.000 Where does that leave us?

01:28:42.000 But, if I was an open-miker...

01:28:44.000 And I needed some premises, which are, that's the one thing that drives me fucking crazy when people steal premises.

01:28:51.000 It is so hard to come up with a premise.

01:28:54.000 It is fruit that you've like climbed to the top of a tree and risked your life to grab that apple.

01:29:00.000 Right.

01:29:00.000 And someone goes, oh, I'll take that apple.

01:29:02.000 And then I'll write my own thing on that apple.

01:29:04.000 Okay, you motherfucker.

01:29:05.000 You saw that guy grab that apple.

01:29:08.000 That's his apple.

01:29:10.000 And people go, well, I could write a joke on the subject, too.

01:29:12.000 Yeah, yeah, sort of, but your joke is completely derivative of his.

01:29:19.000 That's the great thing about Attell.

01:29:20.000 You'll get a text from him at 3 in the morning.

01:29:23.000 He's like, give a joke about a clown on a tricycle who's on meth.

01:29:28.000 It's like, Dave, not only do I not have that, I've never...

01:29:31.000 Well, he thinks when things come to him too easy.

01:29:35.000 Because I've had that happen to me, too.

01:29:38.000 I'm like, God, have I heard this before?

01:29:39.000 Because my memory is really good and also really bad.

01:29:43.000 Like, it's really good, but sometimes it sucks.

01:29:45.000 It's so inconsistent sometimes.

01:29:47.000 Right.

01:29:48.000 Because if something's important to me, I can remember everything about it.

01:29:51.000 But if it's something like, I kind of remember this.

01:29:54.000 Am I remembering that wrong?

01:29:55.000 Right.

01:29:56.000 We did it yesterday.

01:29:57.000 There's this video that I had that I was like, oh, that's that Bob Seska video.

01:30:00.000 And then I'm watching.

01:30:01.000 I'm like, no, it's not.

01:30:02.000 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:30:03.000 That was different.

01:30:04.000 And then we corrected it.

01:30:05.000 I'm like, oh, no, no, no.

01:30:06.000 His was different.

01:30:07.000 I can't even find the...

01:30:08.000 Have you found that Bob Seska video?

01:30:10.000 I found a few.

01:30:11.000 I mean, there's become a lot of videos on that topic.

01:30:13.000 On that topic, yeah.

01:30:14.000 Well, McKenna made it so...

01:30:16.000 It's the stoned ape theory.

01:30:18.000 It's a theory that when chimpanzees ate mushrooms or lower primates ate mushrooms, it advanced their intelligence and that's how they became human.

01:30:26.000 It's a very interesting theory, because it's scientific.

01:30:28.000 It really is, believe it or not.

01:30:30.000 Like, there's actual scientists that believe, like this guy Dennis McKenna, who believes that that is probably how human beings evolved.

01:30:37.000 That's really funny.

01:30:38.000 That's really crazy.

01:30:39.000 That's really something.

01:30:40.000 Yeah.

01:30:41.000 There was a video about it, and I couldn't remember.

01:30:44.000 I saw the video, and I had conflated them in my head, and I had this other video that Bob Seska did a long time ago about aliens fucking with monkeys and turning them into people, and I had fucked them up, and I realized while I was watching, like, no, no, no, this is not it.

01:30:59.000 So, like, my memory is really good and also sucks.

01:31:02.000 Right, right.

01:31:02.000 So when I come up with a bit too easy, it comes to me, I'm like, God damn it, have I heard that before?

01:31:08.000 And then you've got to Google it or figure it out.

01:31:10.000 But Google's nice, though, because you can Google that joke on something and then it's like, oh, look, Mitch Hedberg had a joke on that.

01:31:17.000 Like, oh, okay, that's where it came from.

01:31:19.000 Yeah, well, with TikTok now, it's kind of crazy because it just seems like everything is just fair game.

01:31:25.000 I'm not even on TikTok, but I'm on TikTok.

01:31:27.000 Yeah.

01:31:28.000 I don't have TikTok.

01:31:29.000 You know, my thought was that's Chinese spyware.

01:31:32.000 I don't want to get my fucking passwords and all of a sudden my email gets compromised.

01:31:36.000 And there's a balloon over your house.

01:31:37.000 Yeah.

01:31:40.000 Just for the weather.

01:31:41.000 What was the deal with those fucking balloons?

01:31:44.000 Did they ever figure out whose balloons those were?

01:31:46.000 That had to have been them timing our response.

01:31:48.000 I thought of something yesterday.

01:31:49.000 That's a response time thing.

01:31:50.000 That's not actually a weather balloon thing.

01:31:51.000 Maybe, but I had heard also that those balloons were flying around when Trump was president and they didn't tell him about it.

01:31:57.000 Because they didn't want Trump going crazy and like shooting nukes at the fucking They nuked the balloon.

01:32:06.000 Yeah, I mean, it's great.

01:32:07.000 Fucking wild, man.

01:32:08.000 With the TikTok being from China, which it is, the last, I don't know how many, I was thinking back how many iPhones I bought, they come directly from China.

01:32:16.000 They're shipped from China.

01:32:17.000 Oh, yeah.

01:32:17.000 Yeah.

01:32:18.000 TikTok's already on them?

01:32:19.000 No, no, no.

01:32:20.000 But the phone itself is shipped right from there, so how do we know that they're not intercepting?

01:32:25.000 Well, this is one you have to think of.

01:32:28.000 According to Gavin DeBecker, who's a security expert, like a legitimate genius, he told me that there was an original Pegasus application that was invented by the Israelis, and it was a spy program, and it required you to click a link.

01:32:40.000 And this is how MBS got Jeff Bezos.

01:32:43.000 Remember when Jeff Bezos had some dick pics get leaked?

01:32:45.000 I don't remember that, huh?

01:32:47.000 Well, what happened was, allegedly, someone sent him a link on WhatsApp.

01:32:53.000 He clicked on that WhatsApp link, and then it downloaded this spyware onto his phone that he wasn't aware of.

01:33:00.000 But apparently now, with Pegasus 2, all they need is your phone number.

01:33:05.000 So all these security companies, I'm sure the NSA, anybody else, they just need your...

01:33:09.000 I got a conversation with a friend of mine about this last night.

01:33:12.000 He's like, how do you handle that?

01:33:13.000 I go, I assume that the government or someone is listening to everything I say, every email, so I just don't say anything that stupid.

01:33:22.000 I mean, if you go through...

01:33:24.000 That's good to live by, just in general.

01:33:26.000 If they wanted to go through my meme collection, you know, the things that I see, like, you know, I have a chat with Shane Gillis, Mark Norman, and Ari Shaffir, like, Protect Our Parks, we have a group chat, and it's the most fucking ridiculous shit, it's constant chaos, it's like,

01:33:42.000 you can take any one of those things, it looks horrible, you pull it out, but it's not for you!

01:33:46.000 It's for us, it's four comics talking shit to each other, having fun.

01:33:50.000 That's great.

01:33:51.000 That's just part of the program.

01:33:53.000 Luckily, I have the ability to explain that.

01:33:56.000 Like I've said, did you do a thing with Greta Thunberg getting fucked in a gangbang?

01:34:00.000 I didn't make it.

01:34:02.000 Somebody said it to me, and I thought it was funny.

01:34:05.000 I'm sorry if I think inappropriate things are funny, but...

01:34:09.000 But you have to make that assumption.

01:34:12.000 Kids don't understand that.

01:34:14.000 And I'm so glad there was no phones around when I was 15. There'd be a thousand pictures of my dick.

01:34:19.000 I'd be sending them to everybody.

01:34:21.000 I think everybody would have back in the day.

01:34:24.000 Chinese weather balloon that flew over U.S. gathered intelligence from military sites.

01:34:29.000 I found this recorded two days ago.

01:34:31.000 This is an Irish site, independent Ireland, and another site called The Times.

01:34:36.000 I don't know where it was from.

01:34:37.000 Interesting.

01:34:38.000 Adblock, but there is reporting that, and I don't know Mmm.

01:34:44.000 Yeah.

01:34:45.000 And they just basically explained it by saying it was a weather balloon.

01:34:49.000 I mean, that's...

01:34:50.000 Do we really need weather balloons anymore?

01:34:52.000 That's a pretty bad lie.

01:34:53.000 Don't we have satellites?

01:34:55.000 Why do you have a balloon?

01:34:55.000 It's a weather balloon.

01:34:56.000 It just is what it is.

01:34:57.000 Yeah.

01:34:58.000 I mean, I think it's also probably a fuck you.

01:35:01.000 Just fly a balloon over the fucking country.

01:35:04.000 What are you going to do, Mitch?

01:35:04.000 I think so, too.

01:35:05.000 Yeah.

01:35:05.000 It was a push.

01:35:06.000 It was a push to see our response time on it, I think.

01:35:09.000 I guess.

01:35:10.000 To see what we would do.

01:35:12.000 It's a weird world.

01:35:15.000 Chinese spy balloon captured sensitive military info after all.

01:35:19.000 U.S. officials say Beijing obtained U.S. military intelligence from a spy balloon that was shot down in early February.

01:35:26.000 I've had Mike Baker on multiple times as a friend of mine.

01:35:30.000 The Fox guy, yeah.

01:35:30.000 Yeah, he's a former CIA operative.

01:35:32.000 And he essentially said that one of the things that China's been doing, the way they gather intelligence, is they sell cell phone towers at a very low rate.

01:35:43.000 And they install them all around these sensitive areas.

01:35:47.000 So if you go to where these military sites are, what is it, Wyoming?

01:35:52.000 Is that where it was, what he was explaining to us?

01:35:54.000 Idaho, like in the...

01:35:55.000 Yeah.

01:35:56.000 And all these areas where this sensitive intelligence is going on, it's like China has all these cell phone towers set up there, and it's their equipment that they put in.

01:36:08.000 And we already know that that's the reason why they banned Huawei from the United States, and Mike talked about that as well, that Huawei was using, whether it's routers or all their different types of equipment that they were selling, Had third-party access, so they could steal data,

01:36:25.000 and they could steal intellectual property.

01:36:28.000 That's one of the things China does.

01:36:30.000 Anytime the United States has an idea, they just copy it and make it better.

01:36:34.000 And they constantly do that.

01:36:36.000 And Huawei was genius at it.

01:36:38.000 Huawei, before they banned them, had the fucking best phones that you could get.

01:36:42.000 And I was about to buy a Huawei phone right before they got rid of them, because they had these crazy cameras.

01:36:49.000 And that's a Chinese company?

01:36:51.000 Yeah.

01:36:52.000 They just push stuff to the edge, make the best shit available, and then steal all the data.

01:36:58.000 You know?

01:36:59.000 Yeah.

01:37:00.000 I mean, I don't understand technology at all.

01:37:03.000 I'm barely able to function on my phone.

01:37:05.000 Probably better that way.

01:37:06.000 Yeah.

01:37:07.000 I mean, it's a rabbit hole that if you go down to...

01:37:09.000 I got my Instagram jacked, and it's like I fell into a phishing scam or whatever, and I got it taken from me.

01:37:18.000 How'd they get you?

01:37:19.000 They said, do we have intellectual property something?

01:37:24.000 You're using something, clips or something that, you know, it's my clip, but it was from, like, TV. And it's like this intellectual property issue.

01:37:35.000 And it's like, click here to figure it out or to clean it up.

01:37:40.000 And I clicked on it and the guy was like, he texted me, he's like, we got you.

01:37:44.000 Yeah, he's like, we got you.

01:37:46.000 So what did he say to you?

01:37:47.000 Send me $5,000 and I'll give you your account back.

01:37:51.000 Wow, so did you?

01:37:53.000 No, I said, um, but your sister says she's having a good time with me.

01:38:00.000 I just didn't respond because I didn't know, you know, whatever.

01:38:03.000 But I was like in a panic then because I was like, do they have other, I don't know, I don't know stuff.

01:38:09.000 So it's like, Do they have my account, all my information?

01:38:13.000 I don't know if it's just Instagram.

01:38:15.000 I don't know what's connected to what.

01:38:16.000 Credit card, Facebook.

01:38:17.000 I start panicking.

01:38:18.000 I start flipping out.

01:38:19.000 You know what I mean?

01:38:20.000 So I call my friend who's a tech guy, Ben Rosenfeld.

01:38:22.000 Shout out to Ben.

01:38:23.000 And he's also a comic.

01:38:25.000 And he helped me try to figure it out.

01:38:29.000 But there is no recourse.

01:38:31.000 There's no recourse for it.

01:38:33.000 It's like you can file a complaint, but it's just basically gone.

01:38:37.000 You can start a new account.

01:38:39.000 Oh, wow.

01:38:40.000 So your account's gone?

01:38:41.000 No, I didn't have to do that.

01:38:42.000 I had another friend help me to get it back.

01:38:46.000 He has an account with a company, and the company helped me get it back, fortunately.

01:38:52.000 But, I mean, as an individual, as a private citizen trying to get that back, it's like, deaf ears, man.

01:38:58.000 They don't care.

01:38:59.000 Well, there's just too many of them, I think.

01:39:00.000 I think it's happening at scale.

01:39:02.000 It's like you're dealing with someone, a company like, say, Instagram.

01:39:06.000 How many people do they, let's guess, how many people are on Instagram?

01:39:09.000 What do you think?

01:39:10.000 Well, there's 350 million people in the country, right?

01:39:13.000 But in the world.

01:39:14.000 Oh, yeah.

01:39:15.000 Instagram is worldwide.

01:39:16.000 Yeah, billions.

01:39:17.000 How many people do you think?

01:39:19.000 Billions.

01:39:19.000 2 billion?

01:39:20.000 What do you think?

01:39:21.000 3 billion.

01:39:22.000 I'll say 2. What do you think?

01:39:24.000 How many people do you think are on it?

01:39:25.000 It's probably about 1. 1 billion?

01:39:27.000 But daily active users would be less too.

01:39:28.000 Let's find out how many accounts are on Instagram.

01:39:31.000 Let's Google that.

01:39:32.000 How many individual accounts are on Instagram?

01:39:34.000 I'm saying 2 billion.

01:39:36.000 What do you think, Jamie?

01:39:37.000 You say one, you say like two, three?

01:39:39.000 Yeah, three.

01:39:40.000 Facebook's the most, and it's not over two billion yet.

01:39:43.000 Oh, it isn't?

01:39:44.000 I'm pretty sure.

01:39:45.000 I thought it was.

01:39:47.000 Facebook's worldwide.

01:39:48.000 Facebook changes elections in places.

01:39:51.000 Like, that's crazy.

01:39:51.000 Right.

01:39:52.000 I had Zuckerberg on, and you could tell, having a conversation with that guy.

01:39:56.000 Dang, I'm off.

01:39:57.000 Instagram is 2.35 billion active users.

01:40:01.000 Wow, that's you.

01:40:02.000 Wow, that's you.

01:40:03.000 Wow, that's crazy.

01:40:05.000 Yeah, I guess it would be hard for them to field complaints or whatever.

01:40:11.000 Meanwhile, that's fourth amongst the biggest social media networks globally, so that's number one.

01:40:17.000 Facebook's number one, 2.9 billion.

01:40:20.000 YouTube is 2.2 billion.

01:40:21.000 I don't really consider YouTube social media, not that much.

01:40:25.000 Right.

01:40:26.000 Because maybe it is.

01:40:27.000 I guess it is.

01:40:28.000 But I don't use it that way.

01:40:29.000 I use it for entertainment.

01:40:31.000 Yeah.

01:40:31.000 If I'm watching YouTube, I'm watching stuff like fights or...

01:40:34.000 Clips, yeah.

01:40:35.000 WhatsApp is 2 billion.

01:40:36.000 Well, WhatsApp is a communication app.

01:40:38.000 I don't think that's social media.

01:40:40.000 Instagram, 2.35.

01:40:42.000 TikTok.

01:40:42.000 TikTok's only 1 billion?

01:40:44.000 That's interesting.

01:40:45.000 I would have thought it was way more.

01:40:47.000 I think it is.

01:40:47.000 I think it's on the rise, though.

01:40:49.000 Isn't TikTok like a thing?

01:40:50.000 And then Instagram Reels is competing with it, right?

01:40:53.000 Where's Twitter?

01:40:54.000 Where's Twitter in that?

01:40:56.000 Twitter's never been in the top 10. Really?

01:40:59.000 But it's not even in the top.

01:41:00.000 Oh, it's way down there.

01:41:01.000 397 million.

01:41:02.000 Wow.

01:41:03.000 Look at all these ones that are fucking way more.

01:41:06.000 Like Pinterest?

01:41:08.000 Pinterest is 475 million?

01:41:11.000 Reddit!

01:41:11.000 Look at Reddit.

01:41:12.000 430 million.

01:41:13.000 Woo!

01:41:13.000 I'm not on Reddit at all.

01:41:14.000 Reddit's chaos.

01:41:16.000 Jesus Christ.

01:41:17.000 I know guys who go on Reddit and they read about themselves and they go down a dark.

01:41:19.000 They get their feelings hurt bad.

01:41:21.000 Oh, there's a bunch of intelligent vipers on Reddit.

01:41:25.000 Facebook runs three of the top five, which is a little strange because they've split them all up and there could just be one app.

01:41:32.000 Facebook Messenger could just be Facebook.

01:41:34.000 Wasn't that one of the things that they asked ChatGPT?

01:41:37.000 Like, do you think that Facebook is a monopoly and should it be broken up?

01:41:40.000 I mean, absolutely.

01:41:41.000 They said yes.

01:41:42.000 What did Zuckerberg say?

01:41:43.000 Well, I didn't ask him about that.

01:41:45.000 No.

01:41:45.000 But for him, it was interesting because he's a very nice guy.

01:41:49.000 Yeah.

01:41:49.000 And, you know, people think of him as, like, a robot.

01:41:51.000 And I think he's not that at all.

01:41:53.000 He's a guy who created this thing a long-ass time ago with no anticipation of what it was going to become.

01:41:59.000 And then it became this fucking worldwide monster.

01:42:03.000 Right.

01:42:03.000 This thing that's just, it's so big.

01:42:06.000 Yeah.

01:42:06.000 And, you know, he's a pretty interesting guy.

01:42:08.000 And very forthcoming, he was explaining, like...

01:42:17.000 I'm sure.

01:42:31.000 And then it just was fucking giant news.

01:42:34.000 I mean, this guy just created a fucking dating site for college kids, you know, X amount of years ago.

01:42:40.000 But he was instrumental in growing it, though, too, you know what I mean?

01:42:43.000 And with that comes, like, bad stuff, obviously, you know, not just the good parts of it.

01:42:48.000 And also, I mean, most recently, he took a big blunder with that whole meta thing where they thought that everybody was going to put on headsets and delve into the metaverse.

01:42:57.000 Oh, yeah.

01:42:57.000 And that shit didn't work at all.

01:42:58.000 No, why?

01:43:00.000 It's too weird.

01:43:01.000 I love VR. I mean, that's close to, I mean, that will mess.

01:43:06.000 I mean, you want to talk about social media fucking with your mind.

01:43:09.000 Like that meta stuff, like in an alternate reality.

01:43:12.000 We all just live in...

01:43:13.000 You're basically getting closer to just being in a pod.

01:43:16.000 You know what I mean?

01:43:17.000 And having that on.

01:43:18.000 Yes.

01:43:19.000 You know, as your reality.

01:43:20.000 It's going to happen.

01:43:21.000 Yeah.

01:43:21.000 It's going to happen.

01:43:22.000 It's just like, look, when I was a kid in the 1980s and 90s, there was...

01:43:27.000 God, good times.

01:43:28.000 Good times.

01:43:29.000 But there was times back then where people thought virtual reality was going to be the future.

01:43:33.000 But the technology wasn't available.

01:43:35.000 It didn't really work.

01:43:36.000 But it was always this thought, you know, that one day we're going to live in virtual reality.

01:43:41.000 And that was the Matrix.

01:43:42.000 That was like all these different things.

01:43:44.000 But it was like science fiction-y enough that it was so far ahead.

01:43:47.000 And then the technology was kind of clunky, so it never really took off.

01:43:51.000 But then when Oculus came around and what were the other ones?

01:43:55.000 There was another big one other than Oculus.

01:43:59.000 Vive, that's right, the HTC Vive.

01:44:01.000 They were so good, you're like, ooh, maybe we're close.

01:44:04.000 And there's some fun fucking games you can play on that.

01:44:07.000 Apparently there's an alien, like Alien 1, the movie game, that is fucking terrifying.

01:44:11.000 And you play it, and you're on the Nostromo, that spaceship, and the fucking alien's in the spaceship, and you're going down dark corridors, and rain's dripping, and the thing just jumps out at you.

01:44:24.000 It's fucking terrifying, apparently.

01:44:26.000 But that, for whatever reason, they thought that was just going to just sweep the whole country and everyone was going to...

01:44:33.000 And it was a virtual reality mask that you put on?

01:44:35.000 The Oculus is.

01:44:36.000 Over your eyes.

01:44:36.000 Yeah, the Oculus.

01:44:37.000 It's very light.

01:44:38.000 The new one is very light.

01:44:39.000 Like the old ones, we had the HTC Vive at the studio and it had to be attached to a backpack and there was like a cable that came above you and we had the cable suspended from the ceiling so we had like a sectioned off area where you could play in it.

01:44:52.000 And then it got better and John Carmack got involved and they made even better versions of it.

01:44:59.000 And then it became something you just sit on your head.

01:45:01.000 And then when that happened, I was like, oh boy, we're getting close now.

01:45:04.000 Because now it just sits in your head and you have these two controllers in your hand.

01:45:07.000 But it's still just people are not that interested in it, which is interesting.

01:45:12.000 That's good, I think.

01:45:14.000 I think it's a good thing not to be on it.

01:45:16.000 I think it's going to be the future.

01:45:19.000 It's going to be something that's so wonderful and so exciting that you can't get out of it.

01:45:25.000 It's going to be weird how it morphs with your mind.

01:45:27.000 It's going to eventually morph with your mind, right?

01:45:30.000 So it'll be like part of you, kind of.

01:45:32.000 That's where we kind of morph into the robot world, I guess.

01:45:36.000 That's happening.

01:45:36.000 It's going to happen.

01:45:37.000 It's just a matter of like, what is it, 10 years?

01:45:40.000 Is it 20 years?

01:45:40.000 Whatever it is.

01:45:41.000 But technology is going to reach a point where it's so...

01:45:44.000 Look, no one ever would have thought that you would have a thing in your pocket where you couldn't stop looking at it.

01:45:49.000 Right.

01:45:50.000 I'm still amazed by it.

01:45:52.000 Like, I'm in New York, you know, and I'm watching people.

01:45:54.000 And I'm watching people just walk down the street with it.

01:45:57.000 And they're not conscious of anything else that is going on.

01:46:00.000 And they're just walking down the street.

01:46:02.000 New York's fucking dangerous.

01:46:02.000 It's dangerous.

01:46:03.000 There's cars that could hit you.

01:46:04.000 It's like all the...

01:46:05.000 They're just walking down the street just immersed in it.

01:46:08.000 Actually, if you're on the subway and you're not on it, if you're just staring forward, you're the weird one.

01:46:15.000 You're the weird one.

01:46:17.000 Everybody else is like, what's this guy doing?

01:46:19.000 If you get on the subway with a book, who the fuck is this guy?

01:46:22.000 Throwback!

01:46:23.000 You're reading a book?

01:46:24.000 A real book?

01:46:25.000 It's not even a Kindle?

01:46:26.000 Yeah, it's unreal.

01:46:28.000 It's unreal.

01:46:30.000 I have the books on my phone now, so I'm reading it on my phone.

01:46:33.000 That's amazing to me, I think, to have all that information.

01:46:36.000 Just a library.

01:46:38.000 With a library app, you can just download books from the library on your phone and read them and return them.

01:46:43.000 That's fantastic.

01:46:44.000 Well, I have most of the books that I consume.

01:46:46.000 I consume audiobooks on the way to work, coming home from work, in the sauna.

01:46:51.000 That's where I do most of my listening to books.

01:46:54.000 And I probably have 200, 300 books on this little tiny phone.

01:46:59.000 It's unreal.

01:46:59.000 And they're all hours long.

01:47:01.000 It's a terabyte of data on that phone.

01:47:03.000 So there's so much room.

01:47:05.000 And also, it just stores it in the cloud anyway.

01:47:07.000 So if there's no room, it's in the cloud.

01:47:09.000 Then you download it.

01:47:11.000 There's never been a time that you could have more access to information.

01:47:14.000 But there's also never been a time where you're more distracted.

01:47:18.000 Yeah.

01:47:19.000 That's the rub.

01:47:20.000 That's the rub.

01:47:21.000 But if you're focused on the information, it's college.

01:47:24.000 It's basically a college in your pocket.

01:47:27.000 It's unbelievable.

01:47:28.000 And people listening might be like, because people grew up with this, but we didn't.

01:47:34.000 I knew a time where this didn't exist at all.

01:47:36.000 Me and my brother had a room together.

01:47:38.000 It was both of us.

01:47:39.000 No TV allowed in the room.

01:47:41.000 Dinner together at a certain time.

01:47:42.000 Unless you're working or you...

01:47:43.000 Or you're at a sports practice, you're having dinner.

01:47:47.000 My father's playing music while we have dinner.

01:47:50.000 We're talking about our day.

01:47:52.000 And when we go to sleep, it's like a room, no television.

01:47:55.000 Because he didn't want us in our room watching television on our own.

01:47:58.000 You want to watch television, you're out with the family.

01:48:00.000 You know, it's that kind of thing.

01:48:02.000 So, I guess...

01:48:04.000 You know, it's a different world.

01:48:06.000 Yes.

01:48:06.000 And it's been a gradual thing, but it's still very, very different.

01:48:09.000 Like, I don't have kids, so I don't know how that would be.

01:48:13.000 But I guess, I mean, like, what you do, what you implement with your children...

01:48:16.000 It's difficult.

01:48:17.000 ...sounds like the right thing.

01:48:18.000 They get mad at you.

01:48:19.000 Yeah.

01:48:19.000 Put your phone down.

01:48:20.000 Yeah.

01:48:21.000 They get mad because that little dopamine rush, and it's not even a big rush.

01:48:25.000 That's what's weird.

01:48:26.000 It's like this little drip of dopamine.

01:48:29.000 But you go like, there's this pull.

01:48:33.000 I see some people on the podcast.

01:48:36.000 They can't help it.

01:48:37.000 They reach for their phone.

01:48:38.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

01:48:38.000 They just check their text messages.

01:48:41.000 And this is your podcast.

01:48:42.000 And it's giant.

01:48:43.000 There's millions of people watching.

01:48:44.000 Someone just look at their phone.

01:48:45.000 It's nuts.

01:48:46.000 But they can't help it.

01:48:47.000 They just get so sucked in.

01:48:49.000 I've done it to the point where it's like when I first get up, I make sure I don't look at it and do other things first.

01:48:56.000 And then I set time aside and I mentally prepare myself.

01:48:59.000 I go, okay, now I'm going to look at it.

01:49:01.000 I'm going to look at it.

01:49:02.000 I'm going to do as much as I want for 15 minutes.

01:49:05.000 Check everything.

01:49:06.000 Make sure everything's up.

01:49:08.000 Check the comments.

01:49:09.000 And now that the special is out, respond to people as much as I can.

01:49:13.000 And then after that window is over...

01:49:17.000 Not again.

01:49:17.000 Yeah, that's good.

01:49:18.000 Now the trick is YouTube, because I like to watch stuff on YouTube, but it's like, I don't want to get addicted to scrolling on YouTube either.

01:49:25.000 Right.

01:49:26.000 So that's the difference there.

01:49:28.000 I'm definitely addicted to watching stuff on YouTube.

01:49:30.000 Yeah.

01:49:30.000 Yeah, when I have breakfast, I fucking, I got this little, it's pretty cool, this little kickstand thing that sticks up to your phone.

01:49:37.000 Oh, that's great.

01:49:38.000 I think this is called a coup case or something like that.

01:49:40.000 I forget what it's called.

01:49:41.000 But it's like, bam!

01:49:43.000 So I just sit there and watch stuff while I'm eating.

01:49:46.000 And I think I'm not addicted that way.

01:49:49.000 But that's YouTube.

01:49:51.000 You're watching substance there instead of mindlessly scrolling, which is what I was doing.

01:49:56.000 And that creates so many bad emotions and stuff.

01:49:59.000 It's like, I don't want to feel that way.

01:50:02.000 Isn't that weird that mindlessly scrolling creates bad emotions?

01:50:05.000 Like, what is that?

01:50:06.000 Why does it do that?

01:50:07.000 Is it just you feel like you're wasting time?

01:50:09.000 You're wasting time, you're seeing a bunch of different things, like, you know, the energy coming from the thing, I'm a big energy guy too, it's like the energy coming from it is, it hits, even when you're looking at your, I tried that for a while, looking at my own, I'll just look at my own stuff, I won't look at everybody's stuff,

01:50:25.000 but then you start getting like, how many likes does this have?

01:50:29.000 That's not true.

01:50:29.000 Yeah, you end up swimming in your own narcissism.

01:50:32.000 So it's like, no, stop that now.

01:50:34.000 Yes, absolutely.

01:50:35.000 But my point is, I'm navigating this at 50, when my mind has already been developed.

01:50:40.000 What chance do kids have developing through this time period?

01:50:44.000 It's a different world, but I think they're going to be fine.

01:50:48.000 I really do.

01:50:49.000 I think there's going to be a transitionary period where we lose a lot of kids.

01:50:53.000 They don't know what the fuck they're doing, and they get lost in it.

01:50:57.000 But there's going to be enough kids that recognize, like, okay, this is just the new reality of life, and if you want to be successful, just like you when you were young, when you had focus and dedication, you realize there's a lot of people out there that don't do that, and, you know, I can learn from them what not to do.

01:51:11.000 There's kids that are doing that now, too.

01:51:13.000 And, like, I have friends that very much limit their kids' access to social media.

01:51:17.000 They don't allow them on things.

01:51:19.000 They don't allow them to have a phone.

01:51:22.000 I don't think that's the way to do it, because this is a reality, and I think that if you give the kids the tools and the understanding to handle that, this is a new level of adversity that they have to deal with that we didn't have to deal with.

01:51:36.000 But the way I look at it, it's like cold weather.

01:51:39.000 If you grew up in a place with cold weather, you developed an understanding of what the fuck that means.

01:51:44.000 You gotta shovel snow, you gotta deal with it.

01:51:46.000 I think they have a new level of adversity because of the pressures of social media and because of the shit-talking, especially with girls.

01:51:55.000 Girls are fucking mean to each other.

01:51:58.000 They reputation destruct in the comments and shit on each other and group chats.

01:52:03.000 It gets real nasty.

01:52:05.000 And you developed a level of resilience from being able to handle that.

01:52:09.000 And after a while, you get okay with it.

01:52:12.000 And you have to understand what that is.

01:52:13.000 Yeah, you have to understand what that is.

01:52:16.000 And you're right.

01:52:17.000 Going in with that mindset is the important thing.

01:52:20.000 But if you're just caught off guard with it, then it can crush you.

01:52:24.000 And it has.

01:52:24.000 It's driven people to suicide.

01:52:26.000 It definitely has done that.

01:52:27.000 And there's also a thing, the FOMO aspect, and the comparison.

01:52:32.000 And this is apparently very bad with girls as well, because there's a lot of people that are using filters, and they're changing their body.

01:52:38.000 And these girls see these people, and they look perfect, and then they see themselves in the mirror, and they have zits, and they look like shit, and maybe they're a little overweight, and they get massively depressed.

01:52:48.000 And then they think, well, the only way, for me, I have to be like that person, so I have to do what they're doing, and be completely focused on my looks.

01:52:57.000 And some people just unfortunately, through a genetic roll of the dice, they don't have good features.

01:53:02.000 They don't look good.

01:53:03.000 They don't have a good body.

01:53:04.000 And then they just feel fucking depressed because they're comparing themselves to this thing.

01:53:08.000 See, like, if you are a comic and you want to be a great comic and you're kind of funny and you're figuring out, you can see, like, Chris Rock and you go, maybe I could get to that spot.

01:53:20.000 Maybe I can get there.

01:53:21.000 But if you're a girl, and you're born with an unfortunate appearance, and you compare yourself to some bombshell who's doing squats with her giant ass in front, you're like, I can't be that person.

01:53:33.000 It's not attainable.

01:53:35.000 That's very, very depressing.

01:53:36.000 Very difficult.

01:53:37.000 Very hard.

01:53:38.000 Very difficult to deal with.

01:53:39.000 Because the pressures of that, it's like that is one of the most important things on social media is to be attractive.

01:53:46.000 It's a currency in and of itself.

01:53:49.000 There's people that I see on Instagram that are like, they have 45 million fucking followers.

01:53:55.000 All they're doing is squats and looking pretty.

01:53:59.000 And there's also a thing with placing undue value on that.

01:54:03.000 Like 45 million, I'm a winner.

01:54:06.000 You have less, you're not.

01:54:08.000 You know what I mean?

01:54:09.000 That kind of thing.

01:54:10.000 And there's also something to be said for just being bored.

01:54:16.000 Just let yourself be bored.

01:54:17.000 Yeah.

01:54:18.000 Let yourself be uncomfortable.

01:54:21.000 Let yourself, you know, just sit in a void once in a while and not be bored.

01:54:25.000 Be unhappy.

01:54:26.000 It's okay to be unhappy.

01:54:27.000 It's okay to be uncomfortable.

01:54:28.000 And I think that gets lost a lot because of this instant gratification.

01:54:33.000 I think for comics being bored is very important because that's where some of the ideas come from.

01:54:36.000 Yeah.

01:54:37.000 You know and the people that don't like Goggins when he runs.

01:54:40.000 Yeah, he don't listen to shit.

01:54:41.000 That's that's that's crazy.

01:54:43.000 Yeah He listens to his uh breath.

01:54:46.000 Maybe he listens his inner demons.

01:54:48.000 Yeah his conversations with The fucking room in hell that he has in the back of his head And he tells those demons who the fuck the boss is.

01:54:56.000 Yeah.

01:54:57.000 Yeah, that's uh, you know I mean, I don't but the guy who wrote Game of Thrones is uh, you know that guy's from Staten Island So it's like, you know The level of imagination, the detail that he must have had in imagining this world,

01:55:12.000 if he would have had a phone, maybe that doesn't happen.

01:55:15.000 Sure, maybe.

01:55:16.000 Yeah, maybe.

01:55:18.000 It's possible, but I mean, it's also possible.

01:55:20.000 Or if he was a hot guy.

01:55:21.000 You know what I mean?

01:55:22.000 Like, if he was a hot guy and had an option of all these women and going to the beach and lifting and all that stuff, like, maybe he doesn't write that, but, you know.

01:55:30.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:55:32.000 I mean...

01:55:33.000 I'm not reading Mario Lopez's book.

01:55:35.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:55:37.000 He's too hot!

01:55:39.000 He's too hot!

01:55:40.000 Good looking guy, fucking great body, looking fancy.

01:55:43.000 Yeah, just a winner all the way through in his life.

01:55:45.000 Yeah, what is that guy?

01:55:46.000 And supposed to be a pretty good boxer.

01:55:48.000 Yeah, he's a very good boxer.

01:55:49.000 Yeah, he's done jujitsu now too.

01:55:51.000 Competed in tournaments.

01:55:52.000 He's a good blue belt in jujitsu.

01:55:54.000 Really?

01:55:55.000 Yes!

01:55:55.000 And Abs, when he was on Saved by the Bell, he was like a wrestler on Saved by the Bell.

01:56:01.000 Saved by the Bell fan, by the way.

01:56:02.000 And he just was shredded then.

01:56:06.000 Yeah.

01:56:07.000 You know what I mean?

01:56:08.000 And shredded all the way, always.

01:56:09.000 I'm sure he works hard.

01:56:12.000 Oh, yeah.

01:56:13.000 But physically gifted.

01:56:14.000 Right, but he's not going to write a Game of Thrones.

01:56:16.000 Right.

01:56:16.000 Maybe it will.

01:56:17.000 What the fuck do I know?

01:56:18.000 But the odds are that that's not going to happen.

01:56:22.000 One of my favorite authors is the guy who wrote Conan, Robert E. Howard.

01:56:27.000 And Robert E. Howard was a recluse, a shut-in, lived with his mother, committed suicide in his early 30s.

01:56:33.000 But the fucking books that he wrote, like those fantasy novels of Conan, they were fucking amazing when I was a kid.

01:56:39.000 And this is a guy who was kind of a shut-in and kind of very depressed.

01:56:45.000 Right.

01:56:46.000 And he wrote about this conqueror.

01:56:48.000 It was like this perfect man who just destroyed things and fought off dragons and demons.

01:56:53.000 And it was amazing work.

01:56:56.000 But if he was some beautiful, hot man, probably that wouldn't have gotten written.

01:57:02.000 Right.

01:57:03.000 Yeah.

01:57:03.000 Right.

01:57:04.000 That's the thing about creativity.

01:57:06.000 It's like, it's this very strange sort of force that you have to figure out how to tune into.

01:57:14.000 And if you're tuned into other stuff, you're not going to give it the time that it deserves.

01:57:18.000 Yeah, but the fact that he couldn't be that hot, popular guy, it forced his mind.

01:57:24.000 Mine is just so powerful.

01:57:26.000 And it forced you to go to another place.

01:57:28.000 Yeah, well, the ability to write fiction is so fascinating and it's so engaging when someone writes a good book and you're into this character and these fucking scenarios and it's like all fake.

01:57:43.000 All invented in this person's mind.

01:57:46.000 Your fucking heart is pounding.

01:57:48.000 Your hands are clamming.

01:57:48.000 And it's not like a movie because there's no filter on it.

01:57:51.000 It's just their thoughts.

01:57:52.000 It's them constructing it.

01:57:54.000 So there's not these other people putting their hands into it.

01:57:58.000 That's why it's raw.

01:57:59.000 Yeah, that's a big one, right?

01:58:01.000 There's not a bunch of...

01:58:03.000 Jackoffs.

01:58:03.000 Fuck them with the stew.

01:58:04.000 Yeah.

01:58:05.000 Adding their own ingredients.

01:58:07.000 Because they want to be part of it.

01:58:08.000 Have you ever worked on a television show where that...

01:58:11.000 No, I was fortunate enough for Attell, like, to bring me into his, like, Days Old Porn.

01:58:16.000 Oh, you were there with that?

01:58:17.000 I consulted with all that, Days Old Porn, yeah.

01:58:19.000 I fucking never did an episode.

01:58:20.000 And Comedy Underground with Dave Attell.

01:58:21.000 Did I do an episode of that?

01:58:23.000 Wait a minute.

01:58:24.000 Wait a minute.

01:58:25.000 I think I did.

01:58:26.000 I think I did.

01:58:27.000 Maybe when he was out, yeah.

01:58:28.000 That's how many fucking things I've done.

01:58:30.000 I don't even remember what I've done.

01:58:31.000 That's pretty great.

01:58:32.000 That's bizarre.

01:58:32.000 I did do it.

01:58:33.000 Ginger Lynn.

01:58:34.000 Isn't that hilarious?

01:58:35.000 Like, I was about to say, I don't know, fucking, I wish I did that.

01:58:38.000 I thought you did.

01:58:38.000 Meanwhile, I did do it, yeah.

01:58:40.000 But Dave, like, that was a fun thing for him, because he's kind of a pervert.

01:58:46.000 So for him to watch porn with the old porn stars and sit there and joke around.

01:58:52.000 Yeah, the classic porn.

01:58:55.000 There's something about those watching things, like Mystery Science Theater, like that kind of thing, watching and mocking things.

01:59:00.000 Yeah, there it is.

01:59:01.000 Ah, that's great.

01:59:02.000 Ah, hilarious.

01:59:06.000 If you don't remember doing it, you probably won't remember if that was in New York or L.A. I believe it was in L.A. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was in L.A. Because I was on set when he was shooting the ones in New York.

01:59:16.000 Oh, okay.

01:59:17.000 I think me and Kurt Metzger worked with Dave.

01:59:20.000 Metzger's the best.

01:59:21.000 I love that dude.

01:59:22.000 He's great.

01:59:22.000 He's so funny.

01:59:23.000 Yeah, he's great on Jimmy Dore's show.

01:59:25.000 I don't know if you've ever seen him on the Jimmy Dore show.

01:59:28.000 Jimmy Dore has a YouTube channel, like a political thing, and Kurt is like his sidekick.

01:59:32.000 Oh, really?

01:59:32.000 And so Kurt is always like chiming in about things, but what's interesting is like, you know, I've been friends with Kurt for a long time, and now, like whenever I talk to Kurt, he's always fucking scaring the shit out of me.

01:59:43.000 Because he's so well-read about what's going on in the world.

01:59:48.000 You know, Kurt Metzger was the first person that contacted me about this restrict bill, which is like what they're using to say they need to stop things like TikTok.

01:59:56.000 And then you go into what the restrict bill is.

01:59:58.000 You're like, oh my god, this has nothing to do with TikTok.

02:00:01.000 They want the ability to lock down anything that's on social media and stop people from spreading information that's dangerous to whatever narrative they're trying to push.

02:00:09.000 And we went over it in depth yesterday.

02:00:11.000 It's fucking terrifying.

02:00:13.000 The ambiguity, the way that they're able to frame what they're able to target.

02:00:21.000 It'll come down to keywords, I'm sure.

02:00:25.000 Metzger is so involved in that world now because he's on Jimmy's show that he's always looking at corruption and this and that and what's happening in Ukraine.

02:00:34.000 It's a comedy, right?

02:00:37.000 Well, it's a political social show where Jimmy Dore is a comic and Metzger is a great comic and the two of them together, they just talk shit and laugh about how fucking crazy modern day politics and influence and insider trading and all the shit that's going on and Sam Bank from Fried and FDX and where the money was coming from and how they were all doing it and how they got away with it.

02:01:02.000 He scares the shit out of me every time I talk to him.

02:01:05.000 When I get a text from Kurt, I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ, am I gonna go fucking panic now?

02:01:09.000 And I just start reading his stuff.

02:01:11.000 Have you heard about this?

02:01:12.000 Have you seen this?

02:01:13.000 I'm like, no, don't do this to me.

02:01:15.000 I know, Kurt on coffee is the best.

02:01:18.000 But no, it was really a good time because we'd sit and watch these and think of jokes, you know, all the jokes about this old porn, and it was great.

02:01:26.000 So I was very fortunate to be brought into that.

02:01:28.000 That was early on.

02:01:29.000 That was a long time ago.

02:01:30.000 It was a long time ago now.

02:01:32.000 Because I would do spots late at the Comedy Cellar, and that's when Dave would be there.

02:01:37.000 And so I would, you know, do my set, and then watch his set, and then we would hang out, talk jokes and stuff afterwards.

02:01:46.000 So I was very fortunate in that way because he's an all-time great.

02:01:51.000 He's one of my favorite comics of all time.

02:01:52.000 He's one of my favorite people, too.

02:01:54.000 He really is.

02:01:54.000 I don't see him that much anymore because I don't put him late at the cellar, but just really great times, man.

02:02:01.000 Really great times.

02:02:01.000 He's a wonderful guy.

02:02:03.000 Yeah.

02:02:03.000 And he's so sweet to everybody.

02:02:05.000 Like when he does clubs, he brings candy for the waitresses and stuff.

02:02:09.000 He's just so nice, man.

02:02:11.000 Like in that, all that guy cares about is stand-up comedy.

02:02:15.000 Yeah.

02:02:15.000 It's stand-up comedy.

02:02:16.000 He came here and he takes care of his mom in New York.

02:02:20.000 And all he cares about is just getting up and doing jokes.

02:02:22.000 And his attitude was like, I want to go on early.

02:02:25.000 These young guys, let them have their spots.

02:02:28.000 I don't want to interrupt.

02:02:29.000 I don't want to get in the way.

02:02:30.000 I just kind of come in and just work on my new stuff.

02:02:32.000 So he'll get up at 1 o'clock in the morning.

02:02:34.000 Yeah.

02:02:35.000 So it's like 1 o'clock in the morning in the cellar, there's 14 people there, and it's Dave Attell's on stage.

02:02:39.000 Right.

02:02:39.000 One of the best comics that's ever lived.

02:02:41.000 It's unreal.

02:02:41.000 And he's there because that's when he wants to go up.

02:02:44.000 Right.

02:02:44.000 Like, he can go up at 9 p.m.

02:02:46.000 He can do whatever he wants.

02:02:47.000 Hot crowd.

02:02:48.000 Yes.

02:02:48.000 And just murder every night with old material.

02:02:50.000 Yeah.

02:02:50.000 He does not.

02:02:51.000 Nope.

02:02:52.000 No, he's a fucking real pro.

02:02:54.000 He likes to go on late, and it's just, it's unbelievable.

02:02:57.000 Yeah, and it's really a great example for up-and-coming comics.

02:03:00.000 Yeah.

02:03:01.000 You get to see how that guy does it.

02:03:02.000 Yeah.

02:03:03.000 Because you just like, when you think you're pretty good, you know he's going up to a tired crowd.

02:03:10.000 I was opening for him at the Wilbur in Boston, and for some reason they didn't have a liquor license or something.

02:03:17.000 Really?

02:03:18.000 The Wilbur did it?

02:03:19.000 Yeah, yeah, it didn't, for some reason when we were there.

02:03:22.000 Oh, okay.

02:03:23.000 So it was a two-man show.

02:03:24.000 I was going up, and then I was bringing him up, and there's no liquor, so I was like, oh, this is probably going to be pretty tough.

02:03:29.000 So I go up and do 20, and I'm murdering and killing really hard, and I bring him up.

02:03:33.000 And then I'm sitting on the side of the stage, kind of feeling good about myself.

02:03:37.000 I go, you know what?

02:03:38.000 Time is coming.

02:03:39.000 I got it.

02:03:40.000 I'm doing pretty good for myself.

02:03:42.000 The way that I slayed that cold crowd was pretty awesome.

02:03:46.000 I think I'm on my way.

02:03:48.000 And then I started just listening to him and the laughs he was getting.

02:03:52.000 And I was getting laughs, but he was just getting, you know, the depth.

02:03:55.000 Of the laughter and with every joke was hitting harder and harder and his setups were hitting and then the punchlines obviously hitting and then two tags on the end hitting it's like the guy does comedy the way that Pacquiao used to fight he would like hit you and then turn two more times turn you and then two or three more times and then get out and you're like the guy's just like on the ground by that point so he's doing that and he I'm just listening and it's like I'm at the cellar late,

02:04:22.000 so I know the material, but he's doing material I haven't heard before, and he's murdering at a level that's just crazy.

02:04:30.000 And at the end of it, it's like none of those people in that crowd even remembered who I was.

02:04:37.000 It's like, that's how good he is.

02:04:40.000 Yeah, they leave the show going, oh my god, David Teller's the best.

02:04:43.000 That first guy was okay.

02:04:44.000 First guy's pretty funny.

02:04:45.000 I don't even think they remember there was a first guy.

02:04:48.000 It's like, that's how hard he hits.

02:04:50.000 Yeah, he went up at the improv one night, and it was the improv in Hollywood.

02:04:54.000 And it was a pretty late show, and I had gone on earlier in the night, and then I saw Dave at the bar.

02:05:01.000 I'm like, what's up?

02:05:01.000 What's going on?

02:05:02.000 When are you going up?

02:05:03.000 And the crowd was kind of tired, and a couple people went up.

02:05:07.000 When you have a late show, like a 10 p.m.

02:05:10.000 show, when it gets like 11, 30, 12 o'clock, People are checking their watch.

02:05:13.000 They've got to be up at 7. And they start thinking about leaving.

02:05:16.000 And then I was like, wow, this crowd's getting...

02:05:19.000 It's kind of done.

02:05:20.000 Night's done.

02:05:20.000 And Attell went up and it was like he plugged the audience back into the electricity.

02:05:26.000 Yeah.

02:05:27.000 And just fucking murdered.

02:05:30.000 Effortless murdering.

02:05:32.000 And just tag after tag.

02:05:34.000 And I remember sitting in the back going, my God, this guy's a treasure.

02:05:37.000 A treasure is the right word for him.

02:05:39.000 National treasure.

02:05:40.000 National treasure.

02:05:41.000 National treasure.

02:05:42.000 And I don't think enough people understand it.

02:05:44.000 Like, he should be in arenas.

02:05:45.000 Yeah.

02:05:46.000 Dave Attell should be selling out Madison Square Garden anytime he wants to, instantly.

02:05:50.000 And he's doing clubs.

02:05:51.000 And he loves it.

02:05:52.000 And he's happy.

02:05:54.000 He's like a real club comic.

02:05:55.000 He likes doing all the sets.

02:05:56.000 He likes doing four shows on a weekend.

02:05:58.000 He likes it.

02:06:00.000 And he's not a fame guy either.

02:06:03.000 He's not a fame guy.

02:06:04.000 He'll talk to me.

02:06:05.000 He's not a fame guy at all.

02:06:07.000 We were at the cellar.

02:06:10.000 It's like, uh, Chris Rock will come there.

02:06:12.000 Like, he's not there all the time, but it's not, you know, if you see Chris Rock there, you know, it's not crazy.

02:06:18.000 It's not uncommon.

02:06:19.000 Chappelle, the same way.

02:06:21.000 If you see him there, it's not crazy.

02:06:23.000 Uh, Seinfeld, once in a while.

02:06:25.000 But, um, Adam Sandler was there one time, and it's like, they sit at the back table, and you could just feel the energy when there's somebody like a Chappelle or a Chris Rock back.

02:06:32.000 The energy kind of changed.

02:06:33.000 It's like, People perk up that the people who are there eating everybody notices the comics start their antennas go up and I understand you know the energy so Adam Sandler happens to be back there and He's never there and Dave walks in with his you know goes to the bar to get his coffee or whatever hood up and Adam Sandler goes Dave Dave Dave Dave!

02:06:58.000 And Dave's just in his own world.

02:06:59.000 Atel!

02:07:00.000 Atel!

02:07:01.000 And finally he comes up to him and he goes, Hey Dave!

02:07:03.000 He goes, Hey what's up Adam?

02:07:05.000 And then he goes, How you doing man?

02:07:06.000 Doing pretty good.

02:07:07.000 How are you?

02:07:08.000 Good.

02:07:09.000 And then he goes outside and smokes.

02:07:11.000 He just cuts out and goes outside.

02:07:13.000 Everybody's like angling to see if they can talk to Adam Sandler.

02:07:17.000 And Adam Sandler's like screaming Dave's name until he gets his attention.

02:07:20.000 How are you?

02:07:20.000 Pretty good.

02:07:21.000 Good, man.

02:07:22.000 Okay.

02:07:22.000 And then he goes out and smokes on the porch.

02:07:25.000 Isn't it great?

02:07:26.000 It's classic, man.

02:07:26.000 He's a real comics comic.

02:07:28.000 Yeah.

02:07:29.000 Like the best version of a comics comic.

02:07:31.000 Like a master of his craft who doesn't get the appreciation that he deserves and who is universally respected by his peers.

02:07:40.000 Yeah.

02:07:41.000 That's Dave.

02:07:42.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:07:43.000 He is.

02:07:44.000 He's one of the greats of all time in my mind.

02:07:46.000 Me too.

02:07:46.000 It's so important to have guys like that around.

02:07:50.000 The guys in New York are so fortunate.

02:07:52.000 And unfortunately, also, he has a lot of babies, like what Patrice would call babies.

02:07:57.000 It's like someone who copies your stuff.

02:07:59.000 You'll hear guys talking like this.

02:08:02.000 They have a setup and a punch on it.

02:08:05.000 It sounds like day.

02:08:06.000 You gotta stop listening to him.

02:08:07.000 I did that for a while, too.

02:08:08.000 It's like, you gotta stop listening to him.

02:08:10.000 You gotta stop after a while.

02:08:12.000 And it's hard, because you want to go...

02:08:13.000 Because he'll turn you, if you're watching him, it's like he'll turn you...

02:08:17.000 When you're watching another comic, you'll go, what's his angle on this?

02:08:20.000 What's his angle on this?

02:08:21.000 I'm curious to see what his angle is on...

02:08:23.000 Even Chris Rock, some of the greats, you know?

02:08:25.000 But with Attell, if you go down with that mindset, like, I wonder what his angle is on this...

02:08:30.000 After three jokes, you just become a fan because you're gut laughing.

02:08:35.000 You're gut laughing like the rest of the people in the crowd.

02:08:38.000 You know what I mean?

02:08:39.000 So it's that.

02:08:40.000 He turns you into a comedy fan.

02:08:42.000 And then the problem is you go on thinking about his act and then you compare your own material.

02:08:48.000 You're like, oh my god, I hate my jokes.

02:08:50.000 Oh my God, that's the biggest thing.

02:08:52.000 It's like his throwaway stuff is better than your main stuff.

02:08:57.000 Well, that's one of the best things about those showcase style clubs is that you do work with these killers and you have to sort of reevaluate your material.

02:09:05.000 If you know you're going to go on after Shane Gillis, like Shane was in town this week and Shane right now, In my mind, for my money, he's got 15 minutes that could fuck with anybody's 15 minutes that's ever lived.

02:09:17.000 He's a goddamn assassin.

02:09:20.000 He was going on stage as a mothership, and I watched some of these comics that had to follow him going, oh, fuck.

02:09:26.000 Because he's just throwing heaters.

02:09:30.000 It's like 99 mile an hour fastball after 99 mile an hour fastball.

02:09:34.000 And he's so likable.

02:09:36.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:09:37.000 And he's such a good guy and he's so funny.

02:09:40.000 Yeah, he really is.

02:09:40.000 And his facial expressions are so great.

02:09:42.000 Yeah.

02:09:42.000 And he's just, he's got his, like, when he got canceled, that whole SNL thing.

02:09:47.000 Right.

02:09:48.000 And he got kicked off of SNL, devastated.

02:09:50.000 But he emerged like a fucking phoenix from the ashes.

02:09:54.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:09:54.000 He's way better than he was back then.

02:09:56.000 Right.

02:09:56.000 He's like one of the best top 10 comics on planet Earth without doubt right now.

02:10:02.000 He's fantastic.

02:10:03.000 And he came out of that pressure.

02:10:04.000 Yeah.

02:10:05.000 And now he's the one who like freaks people out.

02:10:08.000 Yeah.

02:10:08.000 When they know that Shane's going up, he's going to do that Trump impression.

02:10:11.000 When he does Trump at the debates, like the fucking show is over.

02:10:15.000 And it's not just that.

02:10:16.000 It's very punched up all the way through.

02:10:18.000 It's like that New York style.

02:10:19.000 And he came out of Philly.

02:10:20.000 Yeah.

02:10:21.000 And it's great.

02:10:22.000 It's great to see his success.

02:10:23.000 It's punched up and it's also like, it's so smart.

02:10:27.000 Yeah.

02:10:27.000 Like, he's got a bit about George Washington.

02:10:30.000 Because Shane has a deep knowledge of history.

02:10:32.000 He really reads a lot about history.

02:10:34.000 He knows a lot about history.

02:10:35.000 So he can incorporate that and there's like layers to his comedy because of his understanding of things.

02:10:42.000 So he's setting things up and he's doing it in a fun way where even the setups are funny.

02:10:47.000 That's a big thing.

02:10:48.000 That's a discipline in and of itself to get a laugh on the way to the punchline.

02:10:53.000 And to structure it that way and to re-evaluate and go, okay, there's probably a funnier way to get into this.

02:10:59.000 Let me figure out the right way.

02:11:01.000 It's nice to see the funniest guys win.

02:11:03.000 It really is.

02:11:04.000 Well, don't you think that in stand-up, there is a meritocracy in stand-up that's undeniable?

02:11:08.000 There's guys who get more popular than maybe the Attell guys, and so you go, well, maybe there's not a meritocracy, but for us it is.

02:11:18.000 The best guys are always the best guys.

02:11:20.000 If you're sitting around with a group of comics and you just watch the show, you're like, oh my god, this guy fucking killed.

02:11:26.000 Like, holy shit, that was good.

02:11:27.000 That meritocracy, that exists in stand-up.

02:11:31.000 If you're not funny, if it doesn't work, nobody cares about you.

02:11:35.000 And that's just how it is.

02:11:36.000 There's no cult of personality that can carry you over.

02:11:40.000 You can't dress in a way that's going to get people to like you more.

02:11:43.000 You know, like, boy, did you see his outfit?

02:11:45.000 Nobody gives a fuck about your outfit.

02:11:46.000 Attell wears the same goddamn outfit every night.

02:11:49.000 He probably has, like, three versions of that black button-up shirt, three versions of that baseball hat, the same goddamn jeans.

02:11:55.000 It doesn't matter.

02:11:57.000 He's so nondescript.

02:11:59.000 It's almost like he wants to blend in.

02:12:02.000 He wants to blend in and wants to just be the vehicle for the material.

02:12:05.000 Right.

02:12:05.000 But to your point, there's a skill set at play.

02:12:08.000 And we all know the skill set.

02:12:10.000 And other hardcore comedy fans know the skill set.

02:12:13.000 Yes.

02:12:13.000 And the waitresses.

02:12:14.000 Yes.

02:12:14.000 Because they see it every night.

02:12:15.000 Oh, yeah.

02:12:16.000 Yeah, so they know smoke and mirrors.

02:12:17.000 Yes.

02:12:17.000 And they know what's real.

02:12:19.000 Do you know Eleanor Kerrigan?

02:12:20.000 Yes.

02:12:21.000 So Eleanor was a waitress at the Comedy Store for like, I don't know, like maybe 10 years before she ever did stand-up.

02:12:28.000 And we were always, I would go to Eleanor when someone would say, oh, this guy's really funny.

02:12:33.000 And I'd go to, have you seen him?

02:12:34.000 And she'd go, he's a fucking hack.

02:12:35.000 I go, really?

02:12:36.000 And she goes, yeah, it's all tricks and bullshit and smoke and mirrors.

02:12:39.000 I'm like, whoa.

02:12:40.000 She'd have like a fucking tray of drinks.

02:12:42.000 I'm like, he sucks.

02:12:43.000 They know.

02:12:43.000 And then you would watch them and go, oh my god, she's right.

02:12:46.000 So she was a comedy fan from being there and then eventually, we all knew she was hilarious.

02:12:54.000 It just took time for her to have the courage to go on stage.

02:12:58.000 Now she's a headliner, killing all over the country.

02:13:00.000 It's amazing.

02:13:01.000 But knowing her as an open-miker and knowing her as a waitress before she was an open-miker, she was one of the people that I would go to if I would ask her, like, hey, how did this person do?

02:13:13.000 How was this person?

02:13:14.000 And she would tell you in a way that, like, she wasn't jealous because she wasn't a comic, but she was, like, deeply embedded in the comedy world.

02:13:22.000 Because you can kill without a skill set.

02:13:24.000 Yes.

02:13:25.000 You can kill without a skill set.

02:13:27.000 Personality.

02:13:27.000 Right, right, right.

02:13:28.000 And goofiness.

02:13:29.000 Yes.

02:13:29.000 Yeah, you can.

02:13:31.000 And some people are great at it.

02:13:34.000 Right.

02:13:34.000 And that's their whole career.

02:13:35.000 Right.

02:13:36.000 You know, but there's something about the well-crafted act.

02:13:40.000 Yeah.

02:13:41.000 To me, it's like I will watch that every time.

02:13:44.000 Me too.

02:13:44.000 Yeah.

02:13:44.000 I like that a lot.

02:13:45.000 If I'm leaving and then I find out someone really good is going on stage, I'm like, I'm gonna stick around.

02:13:48.000 Yeah.

02:13:49.000 I need to see that.

02:13:50.000 And that's the real education that a guy gets if you're in New York.

02:13:54.000 Like if you are, you know, you're on these shows with Greer Barnes, you're on these shows with Dave Attell, you're on these shows where you get to watch all these fucking killers over Over and over and over again.

02:14:04.000 And as a comic, you know it's real.

02:14:06.000 And you're like, God, I'm blown away by this.

02:14:08.000 Greer Barnes is another one.

02:14:09.000 I've known Greer forever.

02:14:11.000 I did shows with him in the 90s.

02:14:13.000 So great.

02:14:14.000 And such a pleasant guy to see.

02:14:17.000 Every time I see him, it's like a hug.

02:14:19.000 He's just a fantastic guy.

02:14:20.000 And he's in the back.

02:14:21.000 If he's listening, he'll just laugh.

02:14:23.000 You'll hear him laughing in the back.

02:14:25.000 He's such a supportive guy.

02:14:27.000 Yeah.

02:14:27.000 Colin Quinn is another guy.

02:14:29.000 Okay, now that I'm not doing at the cellar late anymore, I'm more early, so I'll see Colin Quinn more.

02:14:35.000 He's just, I mean, he's another guy.

02:14:37.000 He's brilliant, man.

02:14:37.000 I remember I did Tough Crowd, and when I did Tough Crowd, Colin would do stand-up in front of the audience.

02:14:44.000 I love that.

02:14:47.000 He fucking murdered so hard, and then the show would go on, and I wanted to say, you know, this show is great, but it's not as good as a stand-up.

02:14:57.000 It's almost like people don't know.

02:15:00.000 He's just the host of the stand-up, and he's kind of the ringleader, and so he's wrangling all these cats and getting all these comics to stay on topic of all the different things they're talking about on Tough Crowd, but I'm like, my God, the best thing is the warm-up.

02:15:12.000 And Colin's famous.

02:15:13.000 He's famous.

02:15:14.000 He's just, you know what I mean?

02:15:15.000 But I don't think that people appreciate him at the level that they need to appreciate him.

02:15:20.000 It's like a tell.

02:15:21.000 It's like, yeah.

02:15:22.000 Yeah, it's the same kind of thing.

02:15:23.000 Like, we appreciate him.

02:15:24.000 Like, if we know that Colin's going on stage, everyone's going to watch him.

02:15:27.000 But I think for the average person, but it's also, that's why they're so good, because they don't have this desire for fame.

02:15:33.000 They just have desire to do great work.

02:15:36.000 And they're not thinking about promoting.

02:15:38.000 Is Colin even on social media?

02:15:40.000 I don't think I've ever seen a post of his.

02:15:42.000 I think he's on Twitter.

02:15:43.000 I don't know if he's on Instagram.

02:15:45.000 I don't think I've ever even saw a thing that he put up.

02:15:49.000 But he's universally respected amongst comedians.

02:15:53.000 It's just like he's a purist.

02:15:56.000 He does those one-man shows like Red State, Blue State.

02:16:00.000 Brilliant stuff.

02:16:01.000 Super prolific.

02:16:02.000 Always working in writing.

02:16:04.000 Yeah.

02:16:06.000 That's one of the real beautiful things about these communities, like a community.

02:16:12.000 And that's what I'm trying to establish here in Austin.

02:16:16.000 That's why I put together that club.

02:16:18.000 And that's why I set it up so there's open mic night, two nights a week, every Sunday, every Monday.

02:16:23.000 That's really great.

02:16:23.000 And it's like all the people that work there, like the doorman and all the...

02:16:27.000 Those are all comics.

02:16:28.000 And they auditioned as comics to get that job.

02:16:32.000 That's great.

02:16:32.000 So they had to do sets in front of Adam Egan.

02:16:34.000 They do these sets.

02:16:36.000 People evaluate their sets, and then you have the ability to do these door guy showcases where you're going in front of fucking packed houses, and it's amazing.

02:16:45.000 It's good that there's a ladder in place, you know?

02:16:48.000 Because I went through that in the city as far as, like, in 2008 I did Live at Gotham.

02:16:52.000 You know, me and Nate did it the same year, Live at Gotham.

02:16:54.000 Then 2010 I did a Comedy Central half hour.

02:16:56.000 I don't know if they even still have...

02:16:58.000 That anymore.

02:16:59.000 But a Gotham set is 8 minutes.

02:17:01.000 Half hour is 22 minutes.

02:17:02.000 Then you work your way up to an hour.

02:17:04.000 You know what I mean?

02:17:04.000 It's like there's a ladder to climb with your skill set.

02:17:09.000 Unfortunately, it doesn't really exist anymore.

02:17:11.000 Well, one of the things we want to establish here is we want to have a real clear path to becoming a professional.

02:17:17.000 And that if you put together like a real set and then you start doing guest sets on the big shows in the big room, and then maybe a guy like David Lucas or a guy like Bryan Simpson will take you on the road and say, hey, you want to open for me in Seattle?

02:17:31.000 And then you go with him.

02:17:32.000 It flies you out, and then you get to see what it's like to be in a new state and a new crowd.

02:17:38.000 And then you'll have a clear path to being a professional.

02:17:42.000 And the more professionals there are, the better it is for everybody.

02:17:45.000 The more guys make it, the more girls make it, the more it is...

02:17:49.000 It's just better for comedy.

02:17:50.000 Yeah.

02:17:50.000 All around.

02:17:51.000 And it's better that it's nice that you're doing it according to the skill set.

02:17:54.000 Because some guys develop, like I think Shane developed fast.

02:17:57.000 He developed very quickly.

02:17:59.000 Not that he didn't even put in the work, but some guys are like that.

02:18:01.000 Some guys run a 4-2-40.

02:18:03.000 You know what I mean?

02:18:03.000 Right, right, right.

02:18:04.000 So it's like if you're developing fast, like Tommy John again was a guy like that.

02:18:06.000 I think he did a Comedy Central half hour, like three years into comedy.

02:18:11.000 But he just, he had it.

02:18:12.000 He was very good.

02:18:13.000 I don't know him.

02:18:14.000 Yeah, he's a writer now.

02:18:16.000 He's not doing stand-up anymore?

02:18:18.000 I think he's kind of dabbling, but he was writing on network shows.

02:18:21.000 That's a trap.

02:18:22.000 Supremely talented person.

02:18:23.000 That's a trap.

02:18:24.000 Writing on a network show?

02:18:25.000 Yeah, there's a lot of guys who are a really funny guy.

02:18:28.000 Do you know Owen Smith?

02:18:30.000 Yes.

02:18:30.000 Owen Smith's one of the best comics a lot.

02:18:32.000 Yeah.

02:18:32.000 And I would see Owen at the store and I'd be like, Jesus Christ, how is this guy not world famous?

02:18:39.000 Right.

02:18:39.000 I didn't understand.

02:18:40.000 He has the personality, the charisma, the timing, the material, the writing, everything.

02:18:47.000 Everything.

02:18:48.000 But...

02:18:48.000 He works in Hollywood, and he's always writing.

02:18:51.000 And so he's always writing on these sitcoms, and he exists in that world, and it's a steady paycheck.

02:18:57.000 He's got a family, and you get trapped.

02:18:59.000 And I've seen guys get sucked into that, and they don't get the career that they deserve.

02:19:04.000 It wouldn't be a trap for a less talented person.

02:19:07.000 Right.

02:19:07.000 But for him, it's like, he should be like...

02:19:10.000 Right, there's some guys that are really good writers, but they're just not comfortable performing, and they don't like it, and it gives them anxiety, and they would rather just write.

02:19:17.000 They're more introverted.

02:19:18.000 But they're really talented.

02:19:19.000 For them, that's great.

02:19:21.000 But there's guys that are talented performers that get that gig, and then they get that steady paycheck every week, and then you get in that system.

02:19:30.000 Where, oh, there's a new show.

02:19:31.000 We want you to be a co-executive, this or that.

02:19:34.000 Right, right, right.

02:19:35.000 And then, you know, you go, well, the wife wants a pool.

02:19:37.000 That's right.

02:19:38.000 The next thing you know, you're trapped.

02:19:39.000 That's right.

02:19:40.000 And then you see these other guys that started even after you, and they're doing arenas.

02:19:44.000 And you're like, oh, my God, if I had stayed on the path, I would be doing arenas.

02:19:47.000 Right.

02:19:47.000 Like, in my mind, Owen Smith should be doing arenas.

02:19:50.000 Like, 100%.

02:19:51.000 When I see him at the store, I'm like, Jesus, that guy's good.

02:19:53.000 Yeah.

02:19:53.000 But he's on that network path.

02:19:57.000 He's on that sitcom.

02:19:58.000 I think he's a showrunner now, which is great.

02:20:00.000 That's great.

02:20:00.000 I mean, that's really good money.

02:20:02.000 But it's that stability thing.

02:20:04.000 As a comic, I want the world to know.

02:20:06.000 I want the world to know how good that guy is.

02:20:09.000 Right.

02:20:10.000 But it's the stability versus the, you know, rolling the dice.

02:20:13.000 It's a trap.

02:20:14.000 Just because you're that good doesn't mean you're going to get that kind of exposure.

02:20:18.000 Maybe eventually it'll happen.

02:20:20.000 It's way more likely.

02:20:21.000 But you might have to walk through fire.

02:20:22.000 You're gonna walk through fire.

02:20:23.000 Yeah.

02:20:23.000 No matter what.

02:20:24.000 If you don't have a draw, but you do have the skill set, you're walking through fire.

02:20:28.000 I don't give a fuck, because you're gonna do a half-filled show in Columbus, Ohio, where they have to paper the room, because no one knows who you are yet.

02:20:34.000 Right.

02:20:35.000 And even if you're a fucking killer, it takes years and years, which is the problem, right?

02:20:40.000 It's like it kind of takes like 10 years of that grind on the road before the word gets out, or a few years at least.

02:20:46.000 And that's hard to do when you're used to those steady checks, and it's really hard to do if you have people relying on you.

02:20:52.000 That's the hard one.

02:20:53.000 Yeah, because then you have to explain it to them.

02:20:54.000 You're not going to.

02:20:56.000 Yeah, you're just gonna take that job and you're gonna hope that something magic happens and it allows you to like leapfrog everything and then just go straight into big theaters and arenas, but it doesn't happen.

02:21:07.000 It really doesn't.

02:21:08.000 Yeah.

02:21:09.000 Because you're just not focused on it.

02:21:10.000 I get it.

02:21:11.000 Yeah.

02:21:11.000 And that's one of the things that I tell these young comics today.

02:21:14.000 I'm like, the best thing that you could do is concentrate on yourself.

02:21:18.000 Right.

02:21:18.000 Meaning that work on your act and instead of like hoping to get hired to do something, create your own thing.

02:21:24.000 Create a podcast.

02:21:25.000 Right.

02:21:25.000 And that's the most freedom you're ever going to have.

02:21:28.000 Yeah.

02:21:28.000 And it's the best vehicle.

02:21:29.000 And you can make it whatever you want.

02:21:30.000 Yeah.

02:21:30.000 You know?

02:21:31.000 It doesn't have to be, you know?

02:21:32.000 And then it's a lot of trial and error.

02:21:35.000 For sure.

02:21:35.000 You know?

02:21:36.000 And it grows.

02:21:37.000 It grows over time.

02:21:38.000 But even that, I know comics that want to start a podcast now, and then they're like, oh, only 2,000 people are downloading my shit.

02:21:45.000 Like, yeah, next week it'll be 2,100.

02:21:48.000 Right.

02:21:48.000 And that's how it goes.

02:21:49.000 Or sometimes you need to end the podcast and shift to something else, like another idea.

02:21:54.000 Maybe.

02:21:54.000 I think.

02:21:55.000 But I think with podcasts, the most important thing is consistency.

02:21:57.000 Consistency, yeah.

02:21:58.000 And a lot of guys, they start out, and they do it for a little while, and then they lose focus, and then they stop doing it, and they, oh, I'm going to restart my podcast.

02:22:05.000 When people say that, that's the feeling that I used to get when people stopped fighting and then they would take like three years off and then come back to the gym again.

02:22:13.000 Now I'm thinking about taking some fights.

02:22:14.000 I'm like, okay.

02:22:16.000 Okay.

02:22:16.000 Right.

02:22:17.000 Yeah, you're lost.

02:22:18.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:22:18.000 You gotta stay on the path.

02:22:21.000 Right.

02:22:22.000 Because, like we were talking about, you're building a mountain out of layers of pain.

02:22:26.000 Right.

02:22:26.000 And if you take a few years off or whatever you're taking off, those layers don't stay at the level they were at before.

02:22:33.000 They deteriorate.

02:22:35.000 Now you have to rebuild.

02:22:36.000 And that's a daunting process.

02:22:38.000 I think, but that's probably the case with anything that's hard to do.

02:22:41.000 Right.

02:22:41.000 I think that's true.

02:22:42.000 I think that's true, but I think it's wonderful that you're creating an environment where people can work hard, raise their level, and then they get to another level, and they're working their way up.

02:22:54.000 That's very important as far as motivation goes.

02:22:56.000 Also, they're getting to see killers.

02:22:57.000 They're getting to see these people, like Big Jay Oakerson was there last night.

02:23:01.000 One of the funniest people.

02:23:02.000 Oh, he was amazing.

02:23:03.000 Ari Shaffir was there last night.

02:23:05.000 So they're getting to see these people that they've seen on television, they've seen on YouTube, and it's exciting to see them in real life and know.

02:23:13.000 And if that person comes up to them and goes, hey man, I love that bit.

02:23:17.000 When you're a young person coming up and someone tells you that your thing is good, it's so exciting.

02:23:22.000 But it's a very unselfish thing for you to do because you could be doing whatever you wanted now.

02:23:28.000 And to put your focus back on that by pulling other people up.

02:23:32.000 It's also selfish.

02:23:33.000 It's also selfish because it helps me.

02:23:35.000 I wouldn't say it's selfish, but it's not like I don't benefit from it.

02:23:39.000 I benefit from it by having that environment where I can work out.

02:23:42.000 And I know that if you put together a gym filled with killers, you could say like, oh, well, that's great that you did that for those guys.

02:23:50.000 Yeah, but it's for me, too.

02:23:51.000 Right.

02:23:51.000 Because that's what you need.

02:23:54.000 I always tell comics, you can't be the funniest guy in Poughkeepsie, New York.

02:23:58.000 Right.

02:23:59.000 Because there's no one else there.

02:24:01.000 And so it's hard to develop a real act.

02:24:05.000 If you want to learn jujitsu and you're only training with white belts, you're only going to get so good.

02:24:09.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:24:10.000 You've got to be around killers.

02:24:11.000 Right, you gotta be around killers.

02:24:12.000 And that's the thing with comedy and I think it's probably the thing with music and it's probably with everything else.

02:24:16.000 You get inspired by the excellence of other people around you and it raises your own personal expectations.

02:24:22.000 That's absolutely true.

02:24:24.000 Yeah.

02:24:24.000 I know that just from wrestling.

02:24:25.000 You're wrestling in a tough, tough...

02:24:27.000 Sure!

02:24:28.000 You become much, much tougher.

02:24:30.000 Yeah, I mean, you came out of Ohio.

02:24:31.000 How many fucking animals come out of Ohio?

02:24:33.000 Yeah.

02:24:33.000 Jesus Christ, there's a long history of killer wrestlers that come out of Ohio.

02:24:38.000 But you are as tough as you're...

02:24:39.000 And especially for a guy like me, athletically, I wasn't the most athletic guy.

02:24:42.000 So it really depended on the program in the room.

02:24:46.000 If I was in a good program, I was tough.

02:24:48.000 But when the program fell off, I wasn't as good, wasn't as effective.

02:24:51.000 Of course, because...

02:24:52.000 It's hard to push yourself.

02:24:54.000 It's hard to push yourself to the level that a great room will push you by yourself.

02:24:58.000 Almost impossible.

02:25:00.000 Yeah.

02:25:00.000 That level of competition.

02:25:01.000 And it's the same in stand-up.

02:25:02.000 You know, guys coming out of New York, you know, like, it's like, guys are good.

02:25:06.000 Mark Norman, Shane, you know, these guys, Sam Morrell, these guys, Chris D. Yeah, yeah.

02:25:12.000 These guys have all been on the show.

02:25:13.000 It's like, these guys came up through that club system.

02:25:16.000 It's also the Coder.

02:25:18.000 Dan Soder is my roommate.

02:25:20.000 Oh, that's great.

02:25:21.000 For 10 years.

02:25:21.000 I love Dan.

02:25:22.000 Love him.

02:25:22.000 But it's also the camaraderie.

02:25:24.000 No one understands comics like comics do.

02:25:27.000 So that's a place where you can be yourself.

02:25:29.000 No matter what, you're around these people.

02:25:32.000 When I'm around comics, it's not like, oh, there's that Joe Rogan guy, the podcast guy.

02:25:37.000 It's like, no, these are my friends.

02:25:39.000 It's normal.

02:25:40.000 I know you guys.

02:25:41.000 I've known everybody for 20 years.

02:25:42.000 You can hang out.

02:25:44.000 It's more comfortable.

02:25:45.000 It's like they're your peers.

02:25:47.000 That's your group.

02:25:49.000 That's the other thing people don't realize, like how long we've known each other.

02:25:53.000 Yeah.

02:25:53.000 A lot of us.

02:25:53.000 Like I've known guys in New York, like I've known them for like 20, since I've been there, 20 years.

02:25:59.000 And it's like somebody new comes into this situation and it's all good.

02:26:01.000 But I don't know if they realize how long we've been in that scene together.

02:26:06.000 Right.

02:26:06.000 In a long time.

02:26:07.000 It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll.

02:26:10.000 It's a fucking long way.

02:26:12.000 It's not something that's going to happen quickly.

02:26:15.000 Everybody in this world wants things to happen quickly.

02:26:18.000 They want to be a millionaire by the time they're 25. They want to do this and that.

02:26:23.000 I have all these expectations and aspirations, which is great.

02:26:26.000 It's great to be ambitious.

02:26:28.000 If you want to do that with comedy, if you want to write material and you want your act to develop, that is a fucking grind.

02:26:35.000 You are running through rose bushes naked for years.

02:26:39.000 Yeah.

02:26:40.000 And there's nothing other than that that's going to get you there.

02:26:44.000 That's right.

02:26:44.000 And it's a process.

02:26:45.000 Yeah.

02:26:46.000 And it's like, that's the thing.

02:26:47.000 You got to fall in love with the process.

02:26:49.000 Yeah.

02:26:49.000 But that's also what helps being around fun people.

02:26:52.000 Because even if it's like a brutal, bloody process, you can still hang out with the guys and talk shit and laugh.

02:26:58.000 And all kinds of personal shit happens along the way too.

02:27:01.000 And it's like you rely on these people for support or your friends or your peers and like picking you up and trying to turn it into a bit or trying to turn it into something, you know, fantastic.

02:27:13.000 Yeah.

02:27:14.000 It's a fun gig, man.

02:27:15.000 It's a fun way to make a living, and it's a fun way to get through life.

02:27:18.000 We were talking about it last night where we just did a show, and afterwards we're all sitting around relaxing and having fun, smoking pot, and I was like, could you imagine living your whole life and never killing?

02:27:29.000 Yeah.

02:27:30.000 Because we went through that with the pandemic where comedy was stopped, and I was like, I guess maybe I'll never do comedy again.

02:27:36.000 Right.

02:27:36.000 I've told this story, it's a crazy story, where Ron White had kind of resigned himself to retirement.

02:27:42.000 He's like, I think I'm done.

02:27:43.000 I fucking did it all.

02:27:45.000 You know, Blue Collar Tour.

02:27:46.000 I got a jet.

02:27:47.000 I'm gonna fucking sell my boat.

02:27:49.000 He's like, I'm just gonna fucking relax.

02:27:51.000 I got money in the bank.

02:27:52.000 I'm gonna play golf.

02:27:53.000 And then we did a show in November of 2020 at the Vulcan Gas Company down the street on 6th Street.

02:28:00.000 And Tony Hinchcliffe had the show.

02:28:03.000 He put it up.

02:28:04.000 And he put Ron White up.

02:28:05.000 And I was already talking about putting together a comedy club.

02:28:09.000 I was trying to find a spot.

02:28:11.000 And then I was actually telling everybody I think I found the spot and I wound up not using that place and getting another place, but Ron goes on stage and he hadn't been on stage in like a long time, like eight months or something like that.

02:28:24.000 Went on stage and fucking murdered.

02:28:27.000 Wow.

02:28:27.000 Murdered.

02:28:28.000 And then he comes off stage and he grabs me by the shoulders.

02:28:30.000 He goes, whatever the fuck we have to do to keep doing that, we're gonna do it.

02:28:35.000 That's great.

02:28:35.000 He goes, get your fucking club open.

02:28:37.000 Let's go.

02:28:38.000 And I was like, God damn it.

02:28:39.000 Damn!

02:28:39.000 That's great.

02:28:40.000 It was like he had electricity coming off.

02:28:42.000 Yeah.

02:28:43.000 That just goes to show it doesn't matter how much money you have.

02:28:46.000 It doesn't matter.

02:28:47.000 Like that feeling, that feeling is what's important to us.

02:28:50.000 Yeah.

02:28:50.000 There's nothing like it.

02:28:51.000 It's also, you understand more than anybody how hard it is to put all that stuff together and to figure out a way to say it in a way that's going to get the laughs and resonate.

02:29:02.000 That's it.

02:29:02.000 That's really it.

02:29:02.000 There's nothing like when you're sitting there and you're turning the bit, however you're doing it, writing it out, I do notes on my phone, but you're like kind of saying it in your head, and then you're like, that moment where you're like, I think I got something here.

02:29:15.000 I think I really got something here.

02:29:16.000 And then the satisfaction of taking that and trying it on stage, and then getting the, you're like, Okay, I got it.

02:29:23.000 I got a punchline.

02:29:24.000 And it's like, now I'm gonna keep coming.

02:29:27.000 I don't know what your process is.

02:29:28.000 Mine's like, just keep coming at it.

02:29:30.000 Just keep coming.

02:29:31.000 Keep coming.

02:29:32.000 Every morning, jokes.

02:29:33.000 Keep throwing jokes at it.

02:29:34.000 Keep asking questions about it.

02:29:36.000 And then when you have it, it's just, there's no feeling like it.

02:29:40.000 Even fame, whatever.

02:29:41.000 It's like money.

02:29:42.000 It's like there's no feeling like it.

02:29:44.000 Having that bit and just having it murder like all the way through from beginning to end.

02:29:49.000 Having a new tagline?

02:29:50.000 Yeah.

02:29:51.000 Yeah, just something that simple.

02:29:54.000 It's the best!

02:29:54.000 I really love it, man.

02:29:55.000 It's the best!

02:29:56.000 I really love it.

02:29:57.000 Do you write in front of a computer?

02:29:59.000 Do you write on a notebook?

02:30:01.000 Do you just write on your phone?

02:30:02.000 How do you do it?

02:30:02.000 I used to do journaling.

02:30:03.000 You know, I was like, you know, because coming up with premises, it's like there's so many funny things that happen to us every day or potentially funny things.

02:30:11.000 It's like just journaling makes you conscious of it, because there's so many things that slip by.

02:30:15.000 Like on the way here, I had brass knuckles, but they're wood.

02:30:21.000 I worked Hilarities in Cleveland, and the owner, Nick Costas, he gives me a gift every time I do it.

02:30:26.000 I don't know if he does it for everybody, but the time before, he gave me a baseball bat, and this time it was wooden brass knuckles.

02:30:33.000 He's a great guy.

02:30:35.000 It's a fantastic club.

02:30:36.000 So we can see these wooden brass knuckles, and I'm going through security at Fort Lauderdale Airport to come here, and they flag my bag, and they bring it over, and the guy goes, what's this?

02:30:47.000 I immediately go, Nick Costas, hilarity, I immediately give up his name, and snitch.

02:30:51.000 I'll wear a wire.

02:30:52.000 I'll wear a wire.

02:30:53.000 I am a snitch.

02:30:55.000 Wooden brass knuckles are illegal?

02:30:57.000 They're not even brass though.

02:30:58.000 No, they're not brass.

02:30:59.000 They're wooden.

02:31:00.000 And I don't know how I would hijack a plane.

02:31:03.000 It's like, take this to Yemen or this guy gets a splinter.

02:31:06.000 You know?

02:31:07.000 So it's like, but they were like, and I was rushed.

02:31:11.000 So he's like, do you want to check your bag or do you want, you could just give it up.

02:31:14.000 I'm like, I'll just give it, you know, I'll just give it up.

02:31:16.000 But it's like a brass, like, for them to take that, and I think they're wooden, he gave them to me, wooden, so they would get through security.

02:31:24.000 That's funny.

02:31:25.000 But for them to do it.

02:31:26.000 But, like, my point is that journaling, like, I never would have thought twice about that, but it's like journaling brings that out, so sometimes I'll do that if I feel like nothing is happening.

02:31:34.000 But then I'll take bits on my phone, and I'll just, like, I went to jury duty.

02:31:40.000 And I'll just...

02:31:41.000 I'm like, there's so many funny things here about jury duty.

02:31:44.000 Trying to get out of it.

02:31:45.000 The way they threaten you.

02:31:46.000 In New York anyway.

02:31:47.000 They go, you have to serve or you're going to go to jail for a year.

02:31:49.000 It's like...

02:31:50.000 Really?

02:31:50.000 Well, they're going to have to pick a jury for my trial.

02:31:54.000 Is it really the case?

02:31:55.000 You go to jail for a year?

02:31:57.000 They say it's a year or a $60,000 fine or something like that.

02:32:01.000 It's like...

02:32:02.000 I don't know, maybe $60,000 was too high, but it's like a year in prison and a fine or both.

02:32:07.000 The point is they threaten you hard to make sure that you go to jury duty.

02:32:11.000 Oh my God.

02:32:11.000 And it's like, I don't know if this is how much faith I have in the justice system with your threatening me, a private citizen, for a year to come to jury duty.

02:32:19.000 Anyway, so you end up going and it's like...

02:32:23.000 As comics, we're in this conundrum because it's like, it could be a three-week trial.

02:32:27.000 It's like, yeah, I cannot serve for three weeks.

02:32:30.000 I have road dates.

02:32:31.000 Money is at stake.

02:32:32.000 Flights are booked.

02:32:33.000 Like, all of this stuff matters to me.

02:32:35.000 Like, I need this money.

02:32:36.000 So, you know...

02:32:38.000 But they just don't care.

02:32:39.000 There's nobody to call.

02:32:41.000 There's nobody to complain to.

02:32:43.000 So it's like you come and you check in and you just hope that you're not called into the thing.

02:32:49.000 So we're sitting there and we're just waiting.

02:32:51.000 But that's like, there's so many funny with emotions and feelings that come through there.

02:32:56.000 And like, how do I get out of this?

02:32:58.000 It's like a felony.

02:33:01.000 A felony.

02:33:02.000 If you have a felony, you can't serve.

02:33:03.000 It's like, I could sucker punch the bailiff.

02:33:05.000 You know what I mean?

02:33:06.000 It's like, that's a felony.

02:33:07.000 He's a cop.

02:33:08.000 And then you start punching that up and crafting it and then going in there.

02:33:14.000 And what really happened is I went in there and they go, you know, we have a jury pool outside.

02:33:18.000 We need to take them first.

02:33:20.000 So instead of holding here, we'll see you guys tomorrow.

02:33:22.000 Meanwhile, I have to fly out the next day.

02:33:25.000 So I go to the bailiff.

02:33:26.000 I go, hey, I can't come back tomorrow.

02:33:27.000 I'm sorry.

02:33:28.000 I have to fly out.

02:33:29.000 I cannot come back tomorrow.

02:33:30.000 He goes, wait here.

02:33:31.000 He goes, he gets a piece of paper and he goes, give this to holding downstairs.

02:33:35.000 They might reissue you another date.

02:33:39.000 They might cut you.

02:33:40.000 So I go, alright.

02:33:41.000 So I go down there.

02:33:42.000 I give it to her.

02:33:43.000 She's like, give me a minute.

02:33:44.000 Just sitting there waiting.

02:33:45.000 And she comes back.

02:33:46.000 She's like, see you in four years.

02:33:48.000 You're cut.

02:33:49.000 I was like, oh, thank God.

02:33:51.000 But that whole thing, like the tension of that, like that's, I'll put that on my phone and I'll just keep coming, keep coming at it.

02:33:58.000 Mmm.

02:33:59.000 Yeah, that's good.

02:34:00.000 That's a good way to do it.

02:34:01.000 Everybody has their own way, you know?

02:34:03.000 Right.

02:34:04.000 What's your way?

02:34:05.000 I write in front of a computer.

02:34:07.000 I sit down and I write.

02:34:08.000 I write about subjects, and it's a lot of wasted time.

02:34:12.000 There's a lot of it that's fucking useless, but I have to find out where the jokes are.

02:34:16.000 Right.

02:34:17.000 So I'll write on a subject, and I'll just start expanding on that subject, and then I'll come up with one funny thing and then I'll take that and I'll copy it and paste it into a new file and then I'll write with that thing that like one paragraph that I think is funny and then I'll expand upon it and then I'll come back to it the next day and I'll smoke some weed and drink a cup of coffee and stare at it some more and then I'll write I write like basically an essay and then in that essay I'll find the funny

02:34:47.000 stuff and extract it.

02:34:48.000 It's not an efficient process because it doesn't come out looking like stand-up.

02:34:53.000 It's like basically I'm farming premises and I'm doing it through just time and like Forcing myself to sit in front of it and so I do it a lot of it at night which is kind of hard because I'm tired It's like sometimes I'll like literally see myself like nodding out in front of the computer while I'm writing But if it's just one fucking line like I have one line in one of my new jokes that came from that and it fucking murders just one line That's like a new bit and

02:35:23.000 this one line like defines that bit and it came out of the middle of the night It was like two o'clock in the morning and I'm just sitting there writing like oh Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:35:32.000 Like, oh, there it is.

02:35:32.000 There it is.

02:35:33.000 That's what I was looking for.

02:35:34.000 I'm panning for gold.

02:35:35.000 I love that.

02:35:36.000 And then I'll find that, and I'll copy and paste it, and then I put them all on my phone.

02:35:40.000 So then if you look at my phone, I go into, like, I have a material folder, and it's all, like, stuff that I've written over the last few months.

02:35:49.000 That's great.

02:35:49.000 And it's like I go over those bits and then I know which ones are in the act right now.

02:35:54.000 And then the ones that aren't in the act, when I'm trying to add new stuff, then I'll take that, okay, let's talk about this.

02:36:01.000 Boom.

02:36:01.000 And then I'll put that up on the computer and then I'll start writing.

02:36:03.000 And then when I want something to be really memorized, like the little post-it notes or the little...

02:36:11.000 Index cards, that's when I write down physically with my hand, because that's what really commits it to memory.

02:36:19.000 Writing something down commits things to memory far better than any other way.

02:36:22.000 I think that's true.

02:36:24.000 So do you take a note card up with the new material on it, or you're just developing, you know the beats in the bit?

02:36:30.000 Yeah, I don't bring notes on stage.

02:36:32.000 I lay out those notes on the coffee table if I'm doing an arena or even a theater sometimes I'll do it.

02:36:38.000 If I do it at a comedy club, I just have the notes on my phone because it's more casual.

02:36:42.000 But when I do actual physical writing, we're trying to come up with new ideas.

02:36:48.000 I can type way faster than I can write.

02:36:51.000 And I don't have to look at my fingers.

02:36:52.000 So I can just look at the screen and in the process of writing, like if I'm sitting there, I get into like a trance where I'm only thinking about the ideas.

02:37:03.000 But it's hard because you get distracted.

02:37:05.000 You want to surf the web.

02:37:06.000 You want to look at YouTube videos.

02:37:07.000 You just gotta like make...

02:37:09.000 I'll like say, okay, you're not doing jack shit until you have 900 words.

02:37:13.000 After you have 900 words, then you can fuck off and do whatever you want.

02:37:17.000 Or not, depending on if you're hot, if you got something.

02:37:20.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:37:20.000 You want to keep that.

02:37:21.000 I mean, I might get something one out of ten times.

02:37:24.000 So it's like nine times.

02:37:25.000 It's a trudge.

02:37:26.000 But I know that if I do that ten times, then I'll have a bit that I didn't have before.

02:37:31.000 But if I don't do it, that bit doesn't exist.

02:37:34.000 That's like the Steven Pressfield, the guy who wrote The War of Art.

02:37:37.000 He talks about that, like summoning the muse.

02:37:41.000 And then if you are a professional and you sit down and you just do the work, those ideas will come to you.

02:37:47.000 But if you don't, if you don't sit there and summon that muse, they're not coming.

02:37:52.000 And I know it's a weird, painful, goofy, uncomfortable process to just sit there and not have anything to say.

02:37:59.000 It's messy.

02:37:59.000 Yeah.

02:38:00.000 The whole thing is messy.

02:38:01.000 But...

02:38:01.000 Yeah.

02:38:02.000 That's the way to do it, for me.

02:38:03.000 I also take notes, like if something hits me during the day that I think is funny, even if it's not a joke, just something peculiar, I'll write it down to just general notes.

02:38:11.000 But then I'll have topics like jury duty, working on this thing on the electric chair now, and it's just like, use that as a topic.

02:38:19.000 It's like, I got a couple of jokes that are working there.

02:38:21.000 It's like, why not keep coming at it, keep coming at it until it's a solid bit.

02:38:26.000 Well, it's the thing that we were talking about before.

02:38:28.000 It's like the process of getting good as a comic.

02:38:31.000 It's a long process.

02:38:33.000 And the more you can do, like listening to sets, watching sets, you know, watching other people perform, writing, the more you put in this overall time and hours, that's going to manifest itself in better performances and better material and better sets.

02:38:50.000 There's no other way to do it.

02:38:52.000 When I talk to Shane about his act, I'm like, dude, your fucking material is so good right now.

02:38:57.000 It's so exciting.

02:38:58.000 He goes, it's all I care about.

02:39:00.000 It's really great.

02:39:01.000 Yeah, but that's why it's so good.

02:39:03.000 He cares so much.

02:39:04.000 It's all he cares about, which is why it's so hot.

02:39:08.000 That's the fucking thing, man.

02:39:09.000 It's just how much attention and energy are you putting into it?

02:39:13.000 Even if you're not going to sit down and write the way that you do, and you don't feel like it, maybe you traveled that day, maybe something else happened, it's like, just check in on them.

02:39:22.000 Just check in on the jokes.

02:39:24.000 Just see how they are.

02:39:25.000 It's like, maybe you have a cup of coffee and you're burned out, you did it, whatever.

02:39:28.000 It's like, maybe just have a cup of coffee and check in.

02:39:30.000 Just commit it to memory.

02:39:32.000 Commit it to thought.

02:39:33.000 Get those ideas bouncing around in your head.

02:39:36.000 It's a fucking process, man.

02:39:38.000 And that's what I wonder.

02:39:40.000 I wonder if ChatGPT is going to bypass that process.

02:39:43.000 People are not going to need that anymore.

02:39:45.000 I mean, hopefully I'm gone by that time.

02:39:48.000 I hope to be out.

02:39:49.000 I don't know, man.

02:39:50.000 I hope to be out by then.

02:39:51.000 I don't know if we will be.

02:39:52.000 I don't know if we will be.

02:39:53.000 But I'm excited to have you at the show tonight.

02:39:55.000 We're going to have a good time.

02:39:56.000 There's two shows tonight, and then there's also two shows in the Little Room, too.

02:39:59.000 We run four shows a night.

02:40:00.000 I can't wait to see it, man.

02:40:01.000 It's exciting, my friend.

02:40:03.000 So tell everybody about your special.

02:40:05.000 How can they get it?

02:40:06.000 There it is.

02:40:07.000 It's called Mike Vacchione, The Attractives.

02:40:10.000 And it was produced by Nate Bargatze, my friend, who gave me the opportunity to put it on his platform.

02:40:16.000 That's awesome.

02:40:16.000 The Nate Land platform.

02:40:17.000 Where did you film it?

02:40:18.000 Nashville.

02:40:19.000 Oh, were you at Zanies?

02:40:20.000 Nashville Zanies, yeah.

02:40:22.000 Oh, that's great.

02:40:22.000 They turned it in.

02:40:22.000 It looks like a theater.

02:40:23.000 Zanies people are just fantastic.

02:40:25.000 Oh, that's fucking great.

02:40:26.000 And 800-pound gorilla.

02:40:28.000 These guys did a great job on it.

02:40:29.000 That's fucking awesome.

02:40:31.000 Really looks good.

02:40:32.000 Zanies is a great club.

02:40:33.000 It's a really good club.

02:40:34.000 That place is...

02:40:36.000 Laughter soaked into the walls at that place.

02:40:38.000 Yeah.

02:40:39.000 It's unbelievable.

02:40:40.000 So you can find it on YouTube, Mike Vecchione, The Attractives.

02:40:43.000 Can I plug my social media?

02:40:44.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:40:45.000 At ComicMikeV on all social media platforms, at ComicMikeV.

02:40:48.000 All right.

02:40:49.000 Well, thanks, brother.

02:40:49.000 Thank you so much for having me, man.

02:40:51.000 My pleasure.

02:40:52.000 I really appreciate what you're doing.

02:40:53.000 Very, very funny guy.

02:40:54.000 Thank you, buddy.

02:40:55.000 It's fun to see.

02:40:56.000 And we're going to have fun tonight.

02:40:58.000 All right.

02:40:58.000 Thanks, buddy.

02:40:59.000 All right.

02:40:59.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 06, 2023

Joe Rogan Experience #1967 - Mike Vecchione

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