In this episode, Dr. Bruce Lipton joins Dr. Kelly to discuss his new book, The Truth About AIDS, and how he became a voice in the anti-vax movement. Dr. Lipton is a professor of medicine at the University of California, Los Angeles, specializing in infectious disease and public health. He is also the author of The Truth about AIDS, a best-selling book that argues that the AIDS crisis was actually caused by the use of AZT, a controversial drug used to treat the AIDS pandemic, and that it may have saved millions of lives. He is a frequent contributor to the New York Times, CNN, and the Los Angeles Times, and is one of the most influential people in American history in the field of public health and public policy. In this episode of the podcast, we discuss his journey to becoming a voice against pseudoscientific theories and theories about the AIDS epidemic, and why he believes they re not only false, but dangerous. We also discuss how he came to write the book, and what it means to be anti-vaccination and anti-pharmacist. And why he thinks vaccines should be used to fight HIV/AIDS. in the first place, not in Africa. This episode is a must-listen episode for anyone who wants to know who is telling the truth about something important, not just about it, but about it and why it s important to fight for it. and why they should be in order to protect the truth. Thank you for listening to this episode! and for supporting the podcast and for sharing it with your friends and family. If you like it, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, iTunes, Podchaser, and we'll read it on iTunes and share it on the next episode of this podcast. Subscribe to the podcast on your podcast, and tell us what you think about it on your social media platforms. Thanks for listening and subscribe to our podcast! Timestamps: 3:00 - What's your favorite conspiracy theory? 4: What s the truth? 5:30 - Is it true? 6:15 - Is there a conspiracy? 7: What's the truth really out there? 8: Is it a myth? 9:40 - What is it possible? 11:00 | Is it real? 14:00 15:20 - How do you think it s possible?
00:00:12.000I like them because they keep people from locking in, but one of the things I wanted to make sure I did in this conversation is not interrupt you.
00:00:20.000Because it's very frustrating for me when I'm hearing people talk in these what should be long-form conversations about very important and nuanced things.
00:00:36.000I think one of the things that happens is people are very concerned with letting you say things that is going to get them in trouble or get their channel in trouble.
00:00:46.000There's people that are doing a lot of self-censoring, and I think they're doing that also when they have these conversations with you because they want to establish right away that they have problems with you, and they have problems with some of the positions that a lot of people have problems with.
00:01:23.000I just took it at face value because that's what everybody had said, and in my mind, vaccines have been one of the most important medical advancements in human history, saved countless lives, protected children, and I thought very strongly that they were important.
00:01:40.000I didn't have any information on that either.
00:01:41.000This was also just a narrative that I've adopted from cursory reading of news articles and, you know, not really getting into the subject at all.
00:01:52.000Then the pandemic happens and I had quite a few very reasonable liberal people, rational people, people that I trusted their mind Recommend the real Anthony Fauci, your book.
00:02:06.000And I'm like, Robert Kennedy wrote a book about Anthony Fauci?
00:02:11.000You've got this, what I perceive to be a kind of fringy thinking, you know, almost conspiracy theorist type person that's not based in fact what their argument was.
00:02:23.000And he had written a book on Anthony Fauci.
00:02:26.000And this was right around the time where I was You know, I was very concerned with the way things were going, that people were just blindly trusting that there was only one way out of this.
00:02:38.000That was kind of bothering me, particularly when I had known that so many people had gotten the virus had been fine.
00:02:45.000So I'm like, well, what's the reality of this?
00:02:52.000And I've talked about it multiple times on the podcast, but if what you were saying in that book was not true, I do not understand how you are not being sued.
00:03:01.000You would instantly, immediately be sued.
00:03:08.000It sold a lot of copies, but it was mysteriously absent from certain bestseller lists.
00:03:14.000People were not promoting that book at all, but through word of mouth and through the time that we live in, Through this time where there was so much uncertainty and people were very confused and also Suspicious they were suspicious that they're being told a very a narrative and they were starting to remember that hey This has happened in the past these kind of narratives about medications These are they have happened in the past.
00:03:39.000They just never happened where this is like the whole country is being convinced that this is the way to do it So I read your book and By the end of the book, it was so disturbing that sometimes I had to put it away and just read fiction for a few days.
00:03:56.000I was like, I don't want this in my head right now.
00:05:51.000She was going to read it out of loyalty to me, and I just said, you can't do that because it would have depressed her so much.
00:05:59.000This is not a good advertisement for this book, but there's so much about documentation of corruption and the sort of brutality towards children.
00:06:34.000Who's like 96 years old or whatever, and he looked like 50. And Carl Reiner and all these people who, you know, there's something about laughter that makes, you know, that is good for you.
00:06:46.000And so, you know, I admire anybody who took it on to read that book and made it through.
00:06:55.000I was one of the leading environmentalists in the country.
00:07:03.000I went to work for commercial fishermen on the Hudson River in 1983 when I first got sober.
00:07:11.000I wanted to do something with my life that I felt drawn to.
00:08:21.000Depending on what color they were painting the trucks at the GM plant in Tarrytown, you know, it was really, my father toured it in 1967, and it was just, it was regarded as a national joke.
00:08:33.000Well today, it's an international model for ecosystem protection.
00:08:38.000And the miraculous resurrection, it's the only waterway in the North Atlantic that still has strong spawning stocks of all of its historical species, the migratory fish, of the enajimous fish like striped bass, sturgeon, herring, alewives, blue crab,
00:09:25.000I was representing a bunch of water keepers all over the United States and in the provinces of Canada, suing coal-burning power plants and cement kilns for discharging mercury.
00:09:38.000Two years before, in 2003, the National Academy of Sciences and the FDA had published a report, like a five-year study, that showed that every freshwater fish in America At dangerous levels of mercury in its flesh.
00:09:56.000The CDC simultaneously published a study that showed that one out of every six American women at levels high enough in her core blood that her child would have some kind of intellectual deficiency like lost IQ. And where's the mercury coming from?
00:10:16.000The mercury was largely coming from coal-burning power plants.
00:10:21.000It's in the geology and the coal and it precipitates out when there's rain.
00:10:26.000When you burn the coal, it's an element so it doesn't degrade.
00:10:31.000And when the rain comes, it falls onto the landscapes and it washes off the landscapes into the rivers.
00:10:48.000We were living in a science fiction nightmare where my children and the children of every other American could now no longer engage in the seminal primal activity of American youth that I had grown up with, of your parents taking you to the local fishing hole and then coming home and safely eating the fish.
00:11:06.000You can't do that anymore in the United States of America or anywhere in North America.
00:11:11.000And so we started suing coal plants and cement kilns, which were the primary contributor And there were a lot of people suing coal plants back then.
00:11:21.000They were suing them for other reasons, for ozone particulates, for acid rain, for carbon, etc.
00:11:29.000And the water keepers were mainly focused on mercury.
00:11:34.000So I was also pushing legislation about mercury, lobbying EPA to reduce it, and I was giving lectures all over the place.
00:11:44.000So these women start showing up at every lecture that I give, public lectures, and they would come and sit in the front seat.
00:12:14.000They were women in childbearing years.
00:12:17.000As it turns out, they were all the mothers of intellectually disabled children and they believed that their children had been injured by the vaccines, by mercury in the vaccines.
00:12:26.000So they would say to me in kind of a respectful but vaguely scolding way, if you're really interested in mercury contamination exposure to children,
00:13:07.000My aunt Eunice Shriver, who was my godmother, founded Special Olympics in 1969. But before it was called Special Olympics, it was called Camp Shriver.
00:13:18.000She lived 10 minutes from my house, and I would go over there every weekend.
00:13:23.000To be a hugger and a coach in Special Olympics.
00:13:27.000And then when I was in high school, because this was so much part of my family DNA, I spent 200 hours in, say, a comfort retarded, you know, working, doing service.
00:13:41.000But it wasn't something I wanted to do with my life.
00:13:43.000Other people in my family were devoting their lives to that.
00:14:53.000And by the way, I had worked on the Hudson River with a commercial fisherman And I'd seen so many times when the scientists were wrong and the commercial fishermen were right about what was happening in the Hudson River.
00:15:07.000One time, I'll just give you an example, this commercial fisherman came to me and said, All the goldfish are dying up in the Wallkill Creek.
00:15:18.000And I went up and they said, will you help us get to that?
00:15:21.000Because there's a new sewer plant up there that's discharging chlorine.
00:15:33.000And I went up to the Department of Environmental Conservation.
00:15:38.000They said there are no goldfish in the Hudson River.
00:15:41.000Well, these were people who I'd watched them catch goldfish in the Hudson.
00:15:45.000So anyway, that was just part of the background of my, you know, little bit of skepticism about government scientists, that they're not always right, that sometimes you have to listen to people.
00:15:56.000And that human experience is valid and that if a woman tells you something about her child, you should listen.
00:16:06.000And so then one of these women came to my home and she found my home in Hyannisport at a little bungalow and her name was Sarah Bridges.
00:16:16.000She was a psychologist from Minnesota and she found my home.
00:16:37.000And as it turns out, her son, Porter Bridges, had been a perfectly healthy kid, got a battery of vaccines when he was two and lost the ability to speak.
00:16:56.000He began headbanging and engaging in other stereotypical behavior like stimming, hand flapping, toe walking and got an autism diagnosis and the vaccine court had awarded her $20 million for acknowledging that the child had gotten autism from the vaccines.
00:17:17.000And she didn't want it to happen to other kids.
00:17:20.000And so I sat down with this pile of studies.
00:17:27.000I wanted to be a scientist when I was a little kid.
00:17:30.000And my life, my legal career has been about science.
00:17:34.000It's, you know, virtually all the cases that I've been involved with, hundreds and hundreds of cases, almost all of them involve some scientific controversy.
00:17:45.000And so I'm Comfortable with reading science and I know how to read it critically.
00:17:50.000I know how to look for the flaws in it and, you know, how to weigh the – attribute weight to various studies, etc., And I sat down while she was there and I read through the abstracts of these studies, one after the other.
00:18:06.000And before I was six inches down in that pile, I recognized that there was this huge delta between what the public health agencies were saying, were telling us about vaccine safety and what the actual peer-reviewed published science was saying.
00:18:21.000Then I took the next step, which is I started calling people, high-level public officials, and I had access to everyone.
00:19:27.000And if they said to me, I don't know, why don't you go talk to the coal industry or this lobbyist for the coal industry and he will tell you what we're doing, I would have been very, you know, puzzled and indignant.
00:19:42.000It was weird to me that the top regulators in the country were telling me, go talk to somebody who's an industry insider because we don't understand the science.
00:19:51.000And when I talked to him, I caught him in a lie.
00:19:55.000And both of us knew that he was lying and that both of us recognized that he was lying.
00:20:07.000I said, why is it that CDC and every state regulator...
00:20:17.000Recommends that pregnant women do not eat tuna fish to avoid the mercury, but that CDC is recommending mercury-containing flu shots with huge bolus doses of mercury, I mean massive doses,
00:20:34.000that pregnant women in every trimester of pregnancy.
00:20:38.000And he said to me, he said, well, Bobby, in this kind of patronizing way, and by the way, When I talked to Paul Offit, he started the conversation.
00:20:49.000He was very enthusiastic, and he said, you know, your father was my hero.
00:20:54.000The reason I got into public service and public health was because I was inspired by your father.
00:21:00.000You know, I'm susceptible, like anybody else, to that kind of flattery, so I was inclined to like the guy.
00:21:07.000But then he said this, I asked him about how can you be, you know, telling people not to eat, women not to eat tuna fish, giving them a flu shot that has, you know, these huge doses.
00:21:19.000And he said, well, Bobby, there are, there's two kinds of mercury.
00:21:23.000There's a good mercury and there's a bad mercury.
00:21:27.000And the minute he said – and I knew there's a different kind of mercury in the vaccines.
00:21:31.000It's ethyl mercury in the vaccines and methyl mercury in the fish.
00:21:35.000But I know a lot of – and you can imagine I know a lot about mercury.
00:21:40.000When you sue somebody, you get a PhD in that.
00:21:44.000You know more than anybody in the world.
00:21:45.000You have to or you're not going to win your lawsuit.
00:21:47.000So I knew a lot about mercury and I knew that his argument was not with me but it was with the periodic tables.
00:21:55.000Because there's no such thing as a good mercury.
00:21:57.000And I also knew the history of why he was saying that because, you know, mercury was added to vaccines in a form called thimerosal in 1932. And Eli Lilly, which was a manufacturer, Because people knew then that mercury was horrendously neurotoxic.
00:22:17.000Mercury is a thousand times more neurotoxic than lead.
00:22:20.000You would never shoot lead into your baby.
00:22:24.000It was allegedly introduced as a preservative, but it doesn't kill streptococcus or any of the other contaminants you would be worried about.
00:22:47.000What NIH admitted to me in 2016, the real reason was there as an adjuvant.
00:22:53.000An adjuvant is a toxic material that they add to dead virus vaccines to amplify The immune response.
00:23:06.000This is kind of getting into the weeds, but a live virus vaccine, if they give it to you, it can spread the disease.
00:23:12.000It can mutate in you and spread the disease.
00:23:15.000That's why most of the polio today, 70% of the polio today, is vaccine polio that came from the vaccines.
00:23:22.000So the regulators expressed a preference for dead virus vaccines.
00:23:27.000A dead virus vaccine, however, will not produce a durable or robust immune response enough to get a license.
00:23:34.000The way you get a license for a vaccine is showing that you get an antibody response for a certain amount of time and that it's a strong antibody response.
00:23:43.000But the dead virus vaccine won't produce that.
00:23:46.000Vaccinologists figured out that if you add something horrendously toxic to the vaccine, Your body confuses that toxic product with the dead antigen, which is the viral particle.
00:24:01.000Your body confuses that toxin with the viral particle and gets frightened and mounts this huge, humongous immune response.
00:24:12.000The next time it sees that virus, the immune response is there.
00:24:16.000So at that point, vaccinologists went around searching around the world to find the most horrendously toxic materials to add to vaccines.
00:24:25.000And there's a mantra in vaccinology that the more toxic the adjuvant, the more robust the immune response.
00:24:32.000And so that's why toxicologists and vaccinologists don't get along with each other.
00:24:38.000Because the toxicologist would say to the vaccinologist, well, I understand it gave you your immune response, but then what is the fate of that in your body?
00:24:50.000Is it penetrating the blood-brain barrier?
00:24:53.000And the vaccinologist could not answer those questions and did not want to.
00:24:57.000So they basically moved the toxicologists out of these, you know, out of the vaccine, the whole vaccine universe.
00:25:05.000Anyway, so when it was added in 1932, the industry said, Eli Lilly said, well, the reason, because everybody was saying, how can you put mercury into a child?
00:25:23.000And they said, well, it's a different kind of mercury.
00:25:25.000It's ethomercury, and the ethomercury is excreted very quickly, so it won't stay in your body.
00:25:30.000They had no science to say that, but that's what they were saying for years.
00:25:34.000And then, in 2003, a CDC scientist called Pichiero did a study where he gave tuna sandwiches that were mercury contaminated to children And then measured their blood and the mercury from the tuna sandwich was there a half-life 64 days later.
00:25:58.000And he injected the children with mercury from a vaccine and that mercury disappeared from their blood within a week.
00:26:06.000And this kind of confirmed What Eli Lilly had said in 1932, oh, it disappears really quickly from the body.
00:26:16.000And that was published, I believe, in the Lancaster Pediatrics.
00:26:20.000But immediately, the journal began getting letters from people, including this famous scientist called Dr. Boyd Haley, who is the chair of that chemistry department of the University of Kentucky.
00:26:32.000And he said, but what happened to the mercury?
00:26:36.000Because Pidgey couldn't find it in the children's.
00:26:39.000Urine, or in their feces, or in their hair, or sweat, or nails.
00:26:46.000And NIH actually then commissioned a study.
00:26:50.000Because at that point, they were really trying to figure out whether this was dangerous.
00:26:56.000And they commissioned a very famous scientist called Thomas Burbacher, up at the University of Washington, Seattle, to do a study with monkeys, with macaques.
00:27:06.000And he did the same study Pichero did.
00:27:09.000But he did something you can't do with children, which he then killed the monkeys.
00:27:15.000And what he found was the mercury, yes, it left their blood immediately.
00:27:20.000The ethyl mercury from the vaccines was gone from their blood in a week.
00:27:25.000Methyl mercury from the tuna fish was there a month later, two months later.
00:27:31.000But when he sacrificed the monkeys and did post-mortems, he found that the mercury had not left their body.
00:27:40.000Instead, the reason it was disappearing from their blood is because ethylmercury crosses the blood-brain barrier much easier than methylmercury.
00:27:48.000The ethylmercury from the vaccines was going directly to the brains of these animals and it was lodging there and causing severe inflammation.
00:28:05.000So, when I'm on the phone with Offit and I said, he said, the ethyl mercury is excreted quickly and I said, how do you know that?
00:28:14.000And he said, because of the Picciaro study.
00:28:18.000Because a study by Picciaro found that it was excreted in a week.
00:28:24.000And I said, but you're familiar with the Burbacher study.
00:30:02.000The same vaccine and to South Asian kids.
00:30:05.000And I'll tell you, you know, we now know what that does because the Danish government did a study called Morgensen in 2017 that showed that African kids, and that's published in a journal called eBiopharma, And it was done by the leading deities of African vaccinology,
00:30:26.000all of them pro-vaccine, people like Peter Aabe, whose name is very famous, Sigrid Morgensen, and a bunch of others.
00:30:32.000And they went to Africa and looked at that.
00:30:37.000And Gates had gone to the Danish government and said, You know, give us money because we've saved millions of lives with this vaccine in Africa.
00:30:47.000And the Danish government said, can you show us the data?
00:30:52.000So they went to Guinea-Bissau, which is a country in the west of Africa, In Guinea-Bissau, the Danes for 30 years had been paying for these very advanced health clinics, local health clinics all over Guinea-Bissau.
00:31:08.000And the clinics were weighing every child at three months and at six months.
00:31:15.000In the 80s, they began giving the DTP vaccine at the first visit, a three-month visit.
00:31:27.000But if they didn't hit the child exactly, if they didn't have full 90 days of age, if they were 89 days, they wouldn't give it to them at the six-month visit.
00:31:37.000As it turns out, they had 30 years of data.
00:31:42.000Where half the kids were vaccinated and half the kids were not, between two months and five months of age.
00:31:47.000So it was a perfect natural experiment.
00:31:50.000And they went in there and they looked at it.
00:31:52.000They looked at 30 years of data and they found that girls who got that vaccine, the DTP vaccine, were 10 times more likely to die over the next three months than children who did not.
00:32:10.000And they weren't dying of diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis.
00:32:14.000They were protected against those by the vaccine.
00:32:17.000They were dying of anemia and bilharzia and malaria and pulmonary disease, but mainly they were dying of pneumonia.
00:32:27.000And what the researchers said is that the vaccine is almost certainly killing more children than diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis prior to the vaccine because it was protecting them against the target illnesses, but it had ruined their immune systems.
00:32:41.000So they could not defend themselves against these other minor infections, and nobody noticed for 30 years.
00:32:47.000And it was the vaccinated children who were disproportionately dying.
00:32:51.000And that's the problem with not doing, you know, real placebo-controlled trials.
00:32:56.000None of the vaccines are ever subjected to true placebo-controlled trials.
00:33:00.000It's the only medical product that is exempt from that prior to licensure.
00:33:05.000Anyway, what happened in the DDP vaccine when it was pulled in this country was pulled because so many people were suing the drug companies.
00:33:15.000Wyeth, which is now Pfizer, was the primary manufacturer.
00:33:18.000They went to the Reagan administration in 1986 and they said, you need to give us full immunity from liability for all vaccines or we're going to get out of the business.
00:33:31.000And Reagan actually said to them, they said, we're losing $20 in downstream liability for every dollar we're making in profits.
00:33:40.000And Reagan said to them, why don't you make the vaccine safe?
00:33:45.000And they said, because vaccines are unavoidably unsafe.
00:33:53.000And it's also in the Brucewitz case, which is the Supreme Court decision upholding that statute.
00:34:00.000And so anybody who tells you vaccines are safe, in fact, the industry itself got immunity from liability by convincing the president and Congress that vaccines are unavoidably unsafe.
00:34:12.000Now, the argument against that would obviously be they've prevented disease that would have killed untold numbers of children, right?
00:34:22.000That would be the argument they would use against that.
00:35:26.000And they said fewer than one in 100 are ever reported.
00:35:31.000And they developed a system of machine counting so that it doesn't rely on voluntary reporting.
00:35:36.000What you do is you look at all the vaccine records for a population and all of the medical claims, the subsequent medical claims, and you do machine counting.
00:35:47.000You do a cluster analysis, and it's very, very accurate.
00:35:51.000And they found, CDC at that time was saying one out of a million people were being injured by the vaccine.
00:35:57.000They found one in 37. And so, and CDC had asked this team to design a machine counting system because their system was so heavily criticized by everybody.
00:36:12.000David Kessler, who was the Surgeon General, everybody was saying, it's terrible, it doesn't work.
00:36:17.000And Congress had told them you have to accurately count vaccine injuries and they weren't doing it.
00:36:22.000So when they did it, When they actually looked, they found that it's not one in a million, it's one in 37 kids had, you know, had potential vaccine claims.
00:36:33.000Now, you can't tell whether any of those claims were actually from the vaccine because it's machine counting, so it's statistical, but you can say...
00:36:41.000That the number of injuries is much higher than anybody was admitting.
00:36:47.000And then in the year 2000, CDC did a study with Johns Hopkins called Geyer because there was this emerging claim that vaccines had saved tens of millions of lives around the world.
00:37:02.000And I'm not going to tell you that they don't because nobody should trust my word on this.
00:37:12.000And this is the principal effort by CDC to actually verify that claim.
00:37:18.000And what the Geyer study, and they looked at all the, you know, the history of each vaccine and health claims and What they were trying to say is there was this huge decline in mortalities from infectious disease that took place in the 20th century.
00:37:39.000An 80% drop in deaths from infectious disease.
00:38:17.000Nutrition is absolutely critical to building immune systems.
00:38:20.000And so what was really killing these children was malnutrition.
00:38:26.000And, you know, it was the infectious disease that was kind of knocking them off at the end.
00:38:32.000But the real cause of death was malnutrition and a collapsed immune system.
00:38:36.000And that is what the Geier study says.
00:38:38.000Now, anybody who's listening to this, you know, you can go look at this study.
00:38:43.000So don't blame me and don't say, you know, Kennedy's in denial.
00:38:47.000This is the only time CDC ever looked at this.
00:38:49.000And it's called G-U-Y-E-R. It's published, as I recall, in Pediatrics, and it's CDC and Johns Hopkins in the year 2000. And I believe the study is true,
00:39:06.000and it's borne out by many, many others.
00:39:09.000There's another study from 1977 called McGinley and McGinley, and it was And that study also said that fewer than 1% of the decline in infectious mortality could be attributed to vaccines.
00:39:28.000And that study was required reading in almost every medical school in this country until the mid-1980s.
00:39:35.000So anyway, I'm just saying that That orthodoxy that you just described, it's not an orthodoxy that should be accepted on faith.
00:39:45.000People should actually look at it, and when they have, it has not borne up.
00:39:50.000I'll just finish this story and I'll try to be brief.
00:39:55.000Because Reagan caved in and it wasn't just Reagan, it was the Democrats.
00:40:00.000My uncle was chairing the health committee at that time and the Democrats also went along.
00:40:05.000They passed the Vaccine Act in 1986 and the Vaccine Act gave immunity from liability to all vaccine companies for any injury, for negligence.
00:40:15.000No matter how negligent you are, no matter how reckless your conduct, no matter how toxic the ingredient, how shoddily tested or manufactured the product, no matter how grievous your injury, you're a vaccine company, you cannot be sued.
00:40:28.000This was a huge gift for this industry because the biggest cost for every medical product is downstream liabilities.
00:40:38.000And all of a sudden, those disappeared.
00:40:40.000So you're not only taking away that cost, but you're also incentivizing the production of many new vaccines.
00:40:51.000You're removing the incentive to make them safe because no matter how dangerous they are, they don't care because they can't be sued.
00:40:59.000But you may say, well, if they're really dangerous, then nobody's going to buy them.
00:41:04.000But the problem with that is nobody has a choice.
00:41:08.000They not only got rid of the downstream liability, but they don't have any advertising or marketing costs because The federal government is ordering 76 million people, essentially ordering 76 million kids to take the product a year.
00:41:24.000If you can get that on the schedule, it's like printing a billion dollars for you.
00:41:41.000You know, I said not one of these 72 vaccines has ever been tested pre-licensing in a placebo-controlled trial where you're looking at vaccinated versus unvaccinated kids and looking at health outcomes.
00:42:28.000Another one was Aaron Seary, the attorney.
00:42:30.000And another one was Lynn Redwood, who's a very, very famous nurse practitioner, public health official in Georgia.
00:42:38.000And during that meeting, there was a referee there from the White House, the West Wing.
00:42:43.000And I said to Fauci, I gave kind of a lecture showing what we knew.
00:42:47.000And I said to him in the middle of it, I had a PowerPoint.
00:42:51.000I said, Tony, you have sent – and by the way, you know, he's known my family forever and, you know, my uncle is chair of the health committee.
00:43:02.000Writing his salary every year, everything else like that.
00:43:05.000And, you know, a very cooperative relationship with him.
00:43:08.000Two of the senators at NIH are named for members of my family, for Unir Shriver and my aunt, my grandmother.
00:43:15.000So, you know, I said to him, Tony, you've said, been telling people I'm a liar.
00:43:20.000When I say no vaccine has ever been, none of the mandated vaccines, what they call recommended, they're actually mandated in many of the states.
00:43:30.000I said, none of them have ever been tested in a placebo-controlled trial and a safety test prior to licensure.
00:43:38.000And I said, can you show me one Vaccine that has been subject to a safety test.
00:44:08.000So Aaron and I sued him, sued HHS, and said, show us one study that's ever been done on, you know, pre-licensing safety testing for vaccines.
00:44:19.000And after a year of stonewalling, they finally gave us a letter and said we don't have any.
00:45:08.000What they've done, especially in a world where we're very aware of the side effects that were hidden from the public with other drugs, whether it's opiates or whether it's Vioxx.
00:45:21.000We're very aware that deception has taken place.
00:45:24.000But for this one, for whatever reason, I think maybe it has to do with protecting children because good parents who don't, you know, they want to trust science and they want to think that medical science is the reason why people live so well today and a lot of that's true,
00:45:43.000but they want to think that it's all connected and that they don't know what they're doing.
00:45:47.000So if they say you're supposed to get 72 shots, you should get 72 shots because they really know.
00:45:52.000Yeah, and you think your doctor did the research but he didn't.
00:45:57.000And you're absolutely right about the opioids.
00:46:00.000I mean, there's many, many other examples, but the opioids is a good one because if anybody goes and looks at that Netflix documentary, Dope Sick, that documentary is— It's Hulu, right?
00:46:17.000That documentary shows how this – all of these subtle forces that lead to agency capture and this collusion, this corrupt collusion between the industry and the regulator – because it was the regulator who agreed It was FDA who agreed to put on the label,
00:46:42.000it's safe and effective and it's not addictive.
00:46:47.000Right, and everybody knew it was addictive.
00:46:51.000You had the entire medical community who said, oh, we must have been wrong because FDA says it's safe and effective.
00:47:00.000You can imagine if they did that for vaccines and then you saw what they did in COVID, you know, and they had to continually change the goalposts.
00:47:09.000It prevents transmission if you get it.
00:47:12.000Grandma won't get sick and, you know, and each time it won't.
00:48:45.000It's just bizarre that it takes so long to get the narrative out to people that when you get a corporation, any corporation, just any group of people that can make money unchecked, it seems to be a normal human characteristic that they do that.
00:49:04.000When they're unregulated or unchecked or when someone's not watching them or when the people that are watching them are compromised.
00:49:10.000And then if you were literally funding media, so you're funding all these shows and they have to essentially self-censor and you're seeing it.
00:49:21.000I'm sure you're aware of the YouTube videos of yourself that have been pulled now.
00:49:25.000You know, the hot boxing with Mike Tyson got pulled.
00:50:56.000So I was looking forward to going on his podcast, but he called me and was like, I don't think we can do it because I'm worried about my livelihood.
00:52:29.000Can I just finish kind of the vaccine saga?
00:52:33.000Because you let me talk so long already.
00:52:35.000I really don't want to talk about this.
00:52:37.000I can talk about other stuff, but I'll just finish this.
00:52:40.000What happened around 1999, the vaccine schedule immediately after they passed, the Vaccine Act exploded because all these companies were rushing to get new vaccines onto the schedule.
00:52:55.000Many of them for diseases that weren't even casually contagious, like ridiculous diseases that are in that, like hepatitis B. You get hepatitis B from shearing needles or from going to a really seasoned prostitute or from sort of compulsive homosexual behavior.
00:53:19.000Oh, but a baby can get it if they get it from their mom.
00:53:36.000The thing is, why would you give it to a one-day-old baby, you know, a three-hour-old baby, and then four more times when that baby's not going to be even subject to it for 16 years?
00:53:48.000I mean, originally what happened is Merck and CDC designed this for prostitutes and for male homosexuals, promiscuous male homosexuals.
00:54:02.000And they couldn't sell any because those cohorts had other better things to do with their money and they weren't going to buy the vaccine.
00:54:12.000Merck went back to CDC and said, we built all these plants and we got the thing and got it approved and we're a billion dollars in.
00:54:44.000All of these new crazy diseases, rotavirus, were all put on the schedule.
00:54:51.000And then they started seeing all of this explosion in chronic disease, and particularly autism.
00:55:00.000So around 1995, Congress said to EPA, what year did the autism epidemic begin?
00:55:09.000And EPA is a captured agency, but it's captured by the coal industry and the oil and the pesticide industry, but not by the pharma, because it doesn't regulate pharma.
00:55:17.000So it actually did a real science, and it said 1989 is the year the epidemic began.
00:55:24.000And 1989 was the year the vaccine schedule exploded.
00:55:28.000That doesn't mean that's a correlation.
00:55:30.000It does not mean causation, but it is something that should be looked at.
00:55:37.000NIH decided to look at it because women were saying it was the vaccine again and again and again and again and again and again.
00:55:45.000Women were coming with the same story.
00:55:47.000I had a perfectly healthy two-year-old, exceeded all his milestones.
00:55:53.000I gave them on their second birthday, 18th month wellness visit, a full battery of six or eight vaccines, and that child spikes a fever that night, has a seizure, and over the next three months loses their language, loses their capacity.
00:56:09.000Make eye contact, finger point, social interactions and languages disappear.
00:56:14.000And it happened so many times that NIH was saying, we got to look to see if it's the vaccine.
00:56:20.000So CDC hired a A Belgian epidemiologist named Thomas Verstraten And they opened up the Vaccine Safety Data Link, which is the biggest database for vaccines, for HMOs.
00:56:37.000All the top 10 HMOs have all their records in there.
00:56:40.000So they have all your vaccination records and all your health claims.
00:56:43.000So you can do these kind of cluster analyses.
00:56:46.000And Verstraden went in there and he looked at one thing.
00:56:50.000He looked at children who got the hepatitis B vaccine within their first month of life.
00:56:55.000And compared those health outcomes in children who did not.
00:57:00.000In other words, children who got it after 30 days or didn't get it at all.
00:57:06.000What he found in his first run through the data is there was an 1135% greater or elevated risk for an autism diagnosis among the kids who'd gotten it in their first 30 days.
00:57:20.000At that point, they knew what caused the autism epidemic.
00:57:24.000Because a relative risk, it's called a relative risk of 11.35.
00:57:30.000A relative risk of two is considered proof of causation, as long as there's biological plausibility.
00:57:38.000The relative risk of smoking a pack of cigarettes a day for 20 years and getting lung cancer is 10. This was 11.35.
00:57:48.000Oh, there was a panic throughout the industry.
00:57:51.000You know, as people heard about this study, the CDC wanted to do a meeting with all of the big panjarams of the industry.
00:57:59.000They didn't want to do it on CDC campus because then they thought it would be subject to a freedom of information law request.
00:58:06.000They wanted to do it to keep it secret.
00:58:09.000So they found this retreat center, a Methodist retreat center in Norcross, Georgia, called Simpsonwood, and they assembled.
00:58:16.000I think there were 72 people there, and they were from the WHO, CDC, NIH, FDA, and all the vaccine companies.
00:58:27.000And all the big academics, the people who basically developed vaccines in the academic institutions, and they were all there.
00:58:35.000And they spend the first day, they give them all a copy of the first rent study, but they have to give it all back because they don't want it out there.
00:58:43.000And then they have a day of talking about it where they're all saying...
01:00:45.000And then they also forget that the four mistakes that were found, that we printed a rata for, that Rolling Stone printed a rata for, were all made by them.
01:00:58.000Because they edited my 16,000 word piece down to a 3,000 word piece.
01:01:03.000And when they were doing that, they made some errors.
01:01:13.000But what happened after that is you had this explosion in chronic disease.
01:02:32.000They try to say, well, we're just noticing it more, which is ridiculous because, first of all, there's all kinds of studies that say that the, you know, really good studies, like Irva Hertz-Pachotto is a very famous scientist, epidemiologist, biostatistician,
01:02:48.000Who was commissioned by the California State Legislature to answer that question.
01:02:53.000She's at the Mind Institute at UC Davis, and she came back and said, no, the epidemic is real.
01:03:01.000It's not, you know, better diagnostic or changing diagnostic criteria.
01:03:08.000Any real scientist now, even the big backers, like, pull off, it won't.
01:04:07.000Because, you know, the CDC releases new data.
01:04:12.000It's called the—I think it's ADM. It's a monitoring system.
01:04:16.000And there's been all kinds of scandals with that because the CDC tries to manipulate the data.
01:04:22.000And there's all kinds of whistleblowers from the different states who say that they're pressured to not report cases and that kind of thing.
01:04:30.000But the CDC releases new data every year, and every year it gets worse.
01:04:44.000Yeah, the rates of vaccinations have gone up.
01:04:46.000And, you know, the mercury has been removed from a lot of the vaccines, but there's aluminum in those vaccines, which, you know, operates along the same biological pathways and does the same kind of damage.
01:07:36.000The second category is autoimmune diseases.
01:07:39.000And all those neurological diseases explode in 1989. As I say, autism just exponentially explodes.
01:07:48.000And if you're my age and you're listening to this, you know, and I know you've got a younger demographic, but you will remember that you didn't know anybody who looked like this when you were, you know, in school.
01:08:04.000The autoimmune diseases like diabetes, juvenile diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, Crohn's disease, all of this stuff suddenly appeared.
01:08:12.000I didn't know any of these diseases when I was a kid.
01:09:48.000And of course, this is one of the reasons we had the highest death rate during COVID, because we have the highest chronic disease burden in the world.
01:09:56.000And, you know, listen, it's not just the vaccines, and I never have said that.
01:10:01.000Our children are swimming around in a toxic soup.
01:10:05.000What we can say is most of it started in 1989, and there are only a certain – there's a finite number of culprits that you can point to and say – It has to come from a toxic exposure because genes don't cause epidemics.
01:10:20.000They can provide a vulnerability, but you need a toxic exposure.
01:12:17.000Yeah, it's like you should not be – and you should not let your kids carry their cell phones on their breasts, particularly a woman because they're associated with – they shouldn't be holding them in their breast pocket.
01:12:31.000If you have to, put them in your butt pocket.
01:12:35.000You should not be having them near your head when you're sleeping.
01:12:39.000You need to get away and you should never put one next to your head.
01:12:43.000I will never put this next to my head.
01:12:45.000I put it on speakerphone or use earphones.
01:12:53.000On this issue, suing FCC and FDA about it, and the court sided with me, so now they're going to have to go back to the drawing board and do it.
01:13:04.000But the Russians know more about Wi-Fi radiation than anything they developed as a weapon, and a lot of the really good science came out of Russia.
01:13:13.000And, you know, the Russians won't let kids use cell phones in kindergarten or, you know, in grade school.
01:13:19.000A lot of the schools in Russia don't let cell phones in there because of the danger.
01:13:23.000And the levels of radiation that they allow from cell phones is like one one-hundredth of what – and I don't know exactly what it is.
01:13:31.000You know, so that's a number people shouldn't hold me to.
01:13:33.000But it is a tiny fraction of what we allow in this country.
01:13:40.000So the Wi-Fi radiation is obviously different than cell phone radiation.
01:13:44.000So you're talking about people that are just in a room with Wi-Fi are being exposed to something that's dangerous?
01:13:50.000People have different sensitivities to it.
01:14:04.000We have a woman who developed an allergy to Wi-Fi.
01:14:10.000She was in the Israeli Defense Forces and she was in their cyber warfare unit.
01:14:16.000She was in a room with it all the time and suddenly she developed – and she's a brilliant In this movement to make sure that they don't put Wi-Fi antennas on elementary schools,
01:15:12.000Radio frequency radiation exposure has been shown to affect the permeability of the blood-brain barrier as well as altering the expression of micro RNA within the brain which researchers state could lead to adverse effects such as neurodegenerative disease.
01:15:31.000There's a doctor that did a study and said that it's been expanded on researches in China and there's a published article here but I was looking around at the page and They call it leaky brain.
01:15:42.000The findings were followed by suppression, misinformation, and a shutdown of government-funded research in the United States.
01:16:42.000And that's probably a lot of reasons for that, but one of the reasons has got to be the burden that we have of chronic disease in our country.
01:16:49.000And we spend $4.3 trillion on healthcare every year in this country.
01:16:55.000Eighty percent of that goes to chronic disease.
01:17:00.000I wanted to talk to you about glyphosate because you brought it up.
01:17:03.000And one of the things I noticed when there was a test that came out or a study that came out recently that showed that an enormous percentage of Americans, it was somewhere in the 90% range, when they were tested, had glyphosate in their blood.
01:17:16.000And then I saw a bunch of apologists online that were saying that these numbers that they're used to detect are so minuscule And then someone I talked to said, yes, but that is the average.
01:17:31.000So you're going to get some people that are exposed to tremendous amounts and that it could be toxic levels.
01:17:37.000Then some people are exposed to very, very little.
01:17:43.000Is there data on long-term, even low-dose glyphosate in your system?
01:17:50.000Glyphosate, we should just tell people, is Roundup.
01:17:52.000Yeah, glyphosate is the active ingredient of Roundup.
01:17:59.000When we sued Monsanto, there's many, many diseases that are linked to glyphosate exposure.
01:18:15.000Including non-alcoholic fatty liver cancers are very, very closely linked.
01:18:20.000A lot of kidney diseases and then severe damage to the microbiome because it's designed to kill plants and there are structures in your In your gut biome that are critical structures in your gut biome Which have plant-like metabolisms which are destroyed by glyphosate.
01:18:52.000And so what happened is glyphosate was originally developed as a tank scalant.
01:19:05.000So to scale the calcium and other deposits, metal deposits, rust deposits from the inside of You know, underground tanks.
01:19:15.000And in 1973, Monsanto had to stop producing DDT. Because, you know, we passed the laws at that time, and that was its flagship product.
01:19:30.000And I figured out that glyphosate, somebody at some point apparently threw some glyphosate out in the back in the yard, and everything green died where they touched it, where it touched glyphosate.
01:19:44.000And so somebody said, oh, this will be a good herbicide because it kills all plants.
01:19:49.000Originally, Monsanto developed it as an herbicide, but the way that it was applied initially from 1973 to 1993 was in backpack sprayers.
01:20:02.000So guys would walk down the corn rows Early in the season, when the corn was competing with nearby weeds for sunlight, they would shoot the individual weeds.
01:20:15.000And then in 93, somebody figured out a way that glyphosate, there were certain bacteria that glyphosate would not kill.
01:20:27.000And they said we could take a gene out of that bacteria and put it into a corn seed and develop a corn that cannot be killed by glyphosate.
01:20:39.000And that corn, you can pour glyphosate all over it and it will do nothing to it.
01:20:43.000So now you could fire all of those workers who were expensive And you hire one airplane and they fly over the fields.
01:20:52.000They saturate the entire landscape with glyphosate.
01:20:55.000Everything dies except the Roundup Ready corn.
01:20:58.000And within a couple of years, Roundup Ready corn was now on 90% of the corn, 95% of the corn in the United States is now Roundup Ready corn.
01:21:11.000And then they developed it for soybean and for barley, for sorghum, for a lot of other plants.
01:21:20.000But it was still being applied early in the season.
01:21:24.000Then in 2000, around 2006, they discovered that if you sprayed it on wheat late in the season, it would desiccate the wheat.
01:21:36.000One of the big losses for farmers in wheat is if it rains during the harvest season, You can't harvest it because it gets moldy.
01:21:45.000And so if you can spray a deskin on it and dries it out and kills it, you can harvest it right away and it won't get moldy.
01:21:52.000So all the wheat in our country started being sprayed that year in 2006 with glyphosate.
01:21:57.000And that's the year you saw this explosion of celiac diseases and gluten allergies and all of this stuff that people – that you may have noticed around then.
01:22:08.000The first time they're spraying it directly on food because it used to be they were spraying it early in the season and it would wash off and the corn would get higher than the weeds and you wouldn't have to do it.
01:22:24.000But now they're spraying it directly on our food.
01:23:00.000When you litigate, when you're suing somebody for a chemical exposure, you have to go through a threshold called the Daubert hearing.
01:23:12.000And the Daubert hearing is a hearing that says, is there sufficient science that it's now considered kind of mainstream That we can show this to a jury.
01:23:26.000And the judge has to make that decision because the judge doesn't want people saying, you know, coming in and saying...
01:23:39.000And then a good attorney might be able to convince a jury that, yeah, my client got crazy because he heard a loud noise.
01:23:48.000So the judge needs to make a threshold decision about whether there's sufficient science to show a jury, and that is a very high threshold.
01:23:57.000So of all of the diseases that are probably caused, almost certainly caused by glyphosate, the only one to pass that threshold was the case that we bought for non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.
01:24:11.000So at that point, we had enough rat studies, enough human studies.
01:24:18.000And we were able to go to the judge and say, we've got enough science on this now to show that That non-Hodgkin's lymphoma is being caused by glyphosate.
01:24:28.000So those were the only cases we brought.
01:24:32.000The other thing, but there are a lot of, you know, really interesting studies that show links between injuries to children and the amount of glyphosate in a woman's urine and the mother's urine, you know, including a lot of,
01:26:59.000Yeah, we had Dr. Shanna Swan who wrote that book Countdown that's all about this, about the declining fertility rates, the higher rates of miscarriage with women.
01:27:28.000You went through a lot with your father being assassinated, with your uncle being assassinated, you being a part of this very public, both in service and in just being famous family.
01:27:41.000And then you take on this thing and even members of your own family sort of disavowed your opinions and attacked you for it.
01:27:53.000What I find remarkable, genuinely, is the way you have been able to communicate with people who approach you with this erroneous idea of what you stand for.
01:28:05.000And that you can just rationally have a conversation with them and say, if I'm wrong, I'd like you to tell me where I'm wrong.
01:28:12.000And those conversations are fascinating.
01:28:15.000It's because people will just want to shut you down.
01:28:17.000They just want to stop talking about it.
01:28:19.000They don't want to give you the time like you just had to lay all this out.
01:28:26.000It's a thing people don't want to believe.
01:28:28.000What is that like to be a person who carries around a thing that people don't want to believe?
01:28:39.000First of all, I want to say this, that what you let me do just now, which probably lost a lot of your listeners, because nobody wants to listen to...
01:28:52.000I'm so grateful to you, because for 18 years, nobody's let me do that.
01:28:58.000Actually, Jon Stewart let me do that in 2005. You can go look at his – and Scarborough, Joe Scarborough, in 2005 when my article came out, and that was it.
01:29:13.000And they immediately, a week later, were disavowing me.
01:29:21.000I mean you're an institution that's kind of a critical institution of this era.
01:29:29.000Because you've maintained this little island of free speech in a desert of suppression and of critical thinking.
01:29:40.000You've been a champion of critical thinking.
01:29:43.000My aunt Jackie met my uncle, John Kennedy.
01:29:49.000He was a senator and a confirmed bachelor.
01:29:54.000And she was a reporter, a journalist, and she did this kind of man-on-the-street interviews with people, these kind of quick kind of interview.
01:30:04.000And she asked him what his best quality was.
01:30:08.000And she expected him to say courage because he'd been a war hero and he had written a book and run the Pulitzer Prize for Profiles in Courage.
01:30:17.000But the answer that he gave her was curiosity.
01:30:22.000And I think that is the quality that made him a great president because he was able to put himself in other people's shoes.
01:30:29.000He had a level of empathy about other humans where he was always thinking about what it would be like.
01:30:35.000You know, why would people do things and act in certain ways, including Khrushchev and Castro?
01:30:43.000And when he had conversations and exchanges with those people, he was able to put himself in their shoes.
01:30:51.000And actually his most important speech was the speech he gave 60 years ago.
01:31:00.000It was the 60th, June 10th of 1963. And it was this speech at American University about trying to persuade Americans to change their minds because they weren't universally against the nuclear atmospheric Tasman Treaty that he was trying to push.
01:31:21.000And that speech turned the country around.
01:31:23.000It was one of the most important, impactful speeches in history.
01:31:27.000And in that speech, he told Americans what it was like to be Russian.
01:31:33.000And, you know, because I was raised, and most Americans of that era were raised thinking that we won World War II. And he said to them, you know, we believe this.
01:31:44.000I was watching combat, Vic Morrow with combat, you know, every week with my brothers.
01:31:49.000It was all about how the Americans won.
01:31:51.000And he said, that's not what happened.
01:32:14.000And he was telling Americans, you know, they're not evil.
01:32:20.000They're having a rational reaction when they develop a nuclear We have to somehow make them feel safe if we're going to have peace in this world.
01:32:36.000It came, I think, because he had that gift of curiosity.
01:32:40.000You have this love for critical thinking and this admiration.
01:32:47.000You have this parade of people on here, like the Weinsteins and all these other people who are thinking out of the box and who are not...
01:32:56.000We're not subsumed in orthodoxies, but are able to break away from those orthodoxies and see the humanity in everybody and everything.
01:33:08.000So I think when the history of this time is written, you will have the role that you played in it.
01:33:16.000And if we manage to get our way out of this totalitarian trajectory, I think a lot of that will be because of what you did.
01:33:26.000In answer to your question, this is a roundabout answer, but about two weeks before he died, my father gave me a book.
01:33:37.000And the book was a book by Camus, who was one of his favorite writers.
01:33:42.000My father, after my uncle's death, went through a period of kind of reassessment of his own sort of relationship with God and with the Catholic Church and religion.
01:33:52.000And he never rejected the Catholic Church.
01:33:56.000But he began to look for meaning in other areas, in poetry and Shakespeare, and particularly in the existentialists.
01:34:06.000And one of the existentialists was Camus.
01:34:09.000And Camus had written this book called The Plague.
01:34:13.000My father gave it to me and he told me with this kind of peculiar intensity, I want you to read this.
01:34:20.000And he had given me, he always gave me stuff to read and poetry and stuff, but he said this with this directness that after he died, I ended up reading that book about three times trying to figure out kind of what the message was that he was trying to give me.
01:34:40.000And the book is about a doctor who is in a city in North Africa where there is an unnamed plague ravaging the city.
01:34:49.000It's a walled city and it's quarantined.
01:34:52.000And the plague is something nobody's ever seen before.
01:34:56.000And most of the people who get it are dying.
01:37:28.000And the more people he abuse on me, the bigger the gift is in some way.
01:37:36.000Was the book, The Real Anthony Fauci, was that the first time – and because it happened during the pandemic, that was the first time I noticed a break in the narrative where more people were paying attention to you and people weren't dismissing you as easily anymore.
01:37:52.000And the book itself was a critical hit amongst a lot.
01:37:56.000Yeah, the book sold a million copies I think in three months.
01:38:12.000It sold a million copies in three months.
01:38:15.000And then it sold, you know, since then, I don't know how many, but It's continued to kind of hover up in the top 100 on Amazon.
01:38:27.000Most of the booksellers wouldn't sell it.
01:38:28.000Like the independent booksellers, Barnes& Noble, took it out of most of their stores.
01:38:33.000They wouldn't sell it in most of their stores.
01:38:35.000And the independent booksellers almost all boycotted it.
01:38:38.000The only place you could really reliably get it was Amazon.
01:38:44.000It was odd because those are people who are usually against censorship and yet they were, you know, all of this weird stuff happened with the censorship and we're people.
01:38:57.000I know, you know, you consider yourself a liberal and as do I. What it means to be a liberal has changed in a lot of ways.
01:39:09.000And it's not about the social issues as much as it is about this subscribing to whatever the orthodoxy or whatever the ideology preaches.
01:39:21.000And it seems like when it comes to things like vaccines, that is something you never question.
01:39:27.000And this is the name that shall not be uttered.
01:39:30.000And when you start questioning things, people get angry at you.
01:39:59.000They gave up like six billion dollars out of how many whatever billions they made selling these things that they knew absolutely to be addictive.
01:40:11.000There's enough people now that feel duped that they're willing to open their mind.
01:40:15.000There's still some people that are dug in, and that's what's going to be interesting about this.
01:40:19.000It is interesting because it's unclear to me.
01:40:24.000If you want some tea, we've got a cup right there.
01:41:39.000It's bizarre to witness because, you know, I've witnessed it with people that I, you know, I was a fan of intellectually, and then all of a sudden I'm seeing them buy into this, and then I see these telltale signs of them not willing to adjust with new data,
01:41:58.000with new information, and understanding that they've been duped and still digging their heels in, because they've already defended themselves once, so now they defend themselves, and now they double down, and now they seek out all these...
01:42:10.000I've seen people defend the natural spillover hypothesis, which at this point seems kind of ridiculous.
01:42:15.000And Michael Schellenberger actually just published something today about that, where there's even more evidence that it was from the very lab that they think it's from.
01:42:39.000Senator, you do not know what you are talking about.
01:42:44.000This appeal to authority, this trying to diminish what he's saying when what he's saying is what people have been quietly saying that understood what was going on.
01:43:46.000And so this idea that even after getting it and getting over it, that somehow or another they had to get injected and it didn't make any sense to them.
01:43:55.000Like this doesn't follow what even the studies are showing about natural immunity due to previous infection.
01:44:04.000Because they had a previous infection, they knew that there were supposedly at some point in time The studies were showing that it was seven times more effective than getting a vaccine.
01:44:15.000And the vaccine, the effectiveness it was showing, it was very short.
01:44:19.000And even then, even after I got over COVID, I had people that I like, that I admire.
01:44:25.000They were telling me, you should get vaccinated now.
01:45:29.000It's very bizarre but the fact that that's a news organization that did that is so terrifying because it's such a trivial thing and that they concentrated on this one medication that my doctor prescribed for me which was Ivermectin.
01:45:42.000They didn't concentrate on all the other stuff that I took.
01:46:07.000The narrative is like Joe Rogan is taking veterinary medication and then Rolling Stone.
01:46:12.000I printed an article saying that these hospital emergency rooms were getting overrun with people overdosing on horse medication and gunshot victims had to wait in line.
01:46:26.000Well, first of all, how many people are getting gunshot in Oklahoma?
01:46:46.000But it's crazy that somehow or another that snuck through Rolling Stone.
01:46:51.000Well, Rolling Stone has made a big change.
01:46:53.000The guy who runs that now is a guy called Noah Schlackman.
01:46:57.000And I used to have a great relationship.
01:46:59.000You know, I grew up with Jan and his kids and stuff, and I published there a lot.
01:47:04.000But the guy who runs it now is a guy with deep connections to the intelligence community and, you know, is really deep, deep in the orthodoxy.
01:47:14.000It's not a counterculture magazine anymore.
01:47:24.000The one thing I wanted to mention to you, one of the incredible studies that came out, which is not surprising, but the Cleveland Clinic study.
01:47:35.000I could be wrong about this, but I just was reading the abstract for somebody the other day, and it looked like what that study shows is that The vaccine gives you some protection in the first two months,
01:47:50.000but then it wanes precipitously and it wanes into negative efficacy after seven months.
01:47:58.000So, in other words, if you got vaccine, you're more likely to get sick.
01:48:14.000But what that study shows, the more vaccines you get, the more likely it is that you're going to get sick.
01:48:21.000And that the people who are most vaccinated have 3.5 times the rate, and I could be wrong about this, but I think this was 3.5 times the risk of illness that people who are unvaccinated.
01:48:36.000Oh, I mean, that's not a good profile for, you know, a medical product.
01:48:43.000I mean, we would have done better if they'd just given everybody vitamin D. But what I found was really fascinating, there was a lot of people after I got sick that wanted me to immediately get vaccinated to join the team.
01:48:53.000That's what it seemed like they wanted me to do.
01:48:56.000It seemed like there was a battle for some sort of ideological high ground, and they wanted me to say, wow, I should have gotten vaccinated.
01:49:04.000I'm like, look, I've had diseases that were worse than this.
01:49:07.000I've had the flu that was worse than this.
01:49:08.000But also, I'm aware of ways to treat certain colds and flus and things.
01:49:14.000You can actually do things to improve your immune system.
01:50:29.000Plenty of studies on what happens to people when they're nutrient deficient as well.
01:50:33.000All of your systems are functioning incorrectly.
01:50:37.000And there's also studies on people that got administered to the ICU with COVID that somewhere above 70% were deficient in vitamin D. Yeah, I think it was over 90%.
01:50:49.000To have a conversation with someone who doesn't take vitamins and is telling you you have to take this medication, it's like, this is a crazy conversation because you know what health is.
01:50:59.000Metabolic health is a very nuanced thing, and there's a lot going on with it, and it has a lot to do with what you put in your body.
01:51:06.000It has a lot to do with the foods you consume.
01:51:08.000It has a lot to do with exercise and drinking water.
01:51:10.000It has a lot to do with your electrolyte balance.
01:51:12.000It has a lot to do with the nutrient content of your diet.
01:51:15.000So if you're not doing any of that, And you're telling everybody they got to get jabbed.
01:51:22.000Well, all that, you know, metadata that I was talking about in the Geyer study, you know, and it's really interesting that the graphs that go along with it, one of the, you know, the graphs that go through each disease and they show when the disease was killing people and then there's this huge decline and then it goes flat so it's not killing anybody more.
01:51:50.000It's all because people started getting better nutrition and their immune systems were okay.
01:51:58.000And if you look at the kids in Africa who die from measles or these other infectious disease, they're all malnourished.
01:52:06.000In fact, the only people really dying from measles in the 60s before they introduced the vaccines, I think the The death rate had gone down from tens of thousands per year to a couple of hundred a year.
01:52:21.000This was by 63, and they were all kids.
01:52:25.000Most of them were kids in the Mississippi Delta, black kids.
01:52:29.000They were severely malnourished and they were dying of measles.
01:52:32.000This was before the war on poverty, before my father visited Delta.
01:52:38.000It's hard for a disease to kill a healthy person.
01:52:41.000It's hard for an infectious disease to kill a healthy person with a rugged immune system.
01:52:46.000Well, not the Spanish flu though, right?
01:52:48.000Well, the Spanish flu was not a virus.
01:53:28.000So when we say – but they still – so what was their – so you're saying they had a compromised immune system already, but why – But a lot of the bacteriological illnesses can kill you.
01:53:42.000It's that a lot of the viral illnesses, you know, if you're super healthy, it's pretty hard for them to kill you.
01:53:49.000I mean, and I'm just saying this, not on any individual basis, but on a population basis.
01:53:55.000If you look at populations that are well-nourished, you don't see infectious disease mortalities anymore.
01:54:03.000And that's across – I don't think anybody would argue with that.
01:54:06.000So what are you saying that the Spanish flu was and what is the documentation?
01:54:14.000You said that Fauci has publicly admitted that it's not a flu?
01:54:18.000Fauci wrote an article in 2008 and I'm pretty sure it's 2008. In which he acknowledged that it was not the flu that was killing those people.
01:55:13.000Predominant role of bacterial pneumonia as cause of death and pandemic influenza implications.
01:55:18.000Yeah, of pandemic influenza preparedness.
01:55:22.000So what this is saying is that bacterial pneumonia was the cause of death, but these people obviously, they were saying that they were sick before this, correctly?
01:55:42.000Post-mortem samples were examined from people who died of influenza during the 1918 to 1919, rather, uniformly exhibited severe changes indicative of bacterial pneumonia, bacteriologic and histopathologic results.
01:55:58.000From published autopsy series, clearly and consistently implicated secondary bacterial pneumonia caused by common upper respiratory tract bacteria in most influenza fatalities.
01:56:12.000And some people have suggested that came from getting people to wear masks.
01:56:29.000The majority of deaths from the 1918-1919 influenza pandemic likely resulted directly from secondary bacterial pneumonia caused by common upper respiratory tract bacteria.
01:56:41.000Less substantial data from the subsequent 1957 and 1968 pandemic are consistent with these findings.
01:56:50.000If severe pandemic influenza is largely a problem of viral bacterial copathogenesis, pandemic planning needs to go beyond addressing the viral cause alone.
01:57:02.000Example of influenza vaccines and antiviral drugs.
01:57:06.000Prevention diagnosis, prophylaxis, and treatment of secondary bacterial pneumonia as well as stockpiling of antibiotics and bacterial vaccines should be high priorities for pandemic planning.
01:57:25.000Let me ask you something that you were talking about before, because you said a lot of the comedians were skeptical, but what I saw was the opposite.
01:57:39.000I saw the comedians that should have been questioning everything that were sort of canceling People who ask questions and including all the ones, you know, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert,
01:58:22.000I try to stay off Twitter because I generally think, especially when it comes to things that are high anxiety subjects, whether it's climate change, the war in Ukraine, or COVID, I think it facilitates mental illness.
01:58:41.000I think a lot of these people, they fester on things, and they have high anxiety.
01:58:47.000And when you subject them to being locked inside their home and you offer them only one way out, and that way is this vaccine, and they trust the science because they're smart people.
01:58:58.000And they believe that we have to all be in this together, and you're a good person if you go out and get vaccinated.
01:59:03.000So you show your picture on your little Instagram page, got vaccinated, And everybody knows you're a good person.
01:59:08.000And then there's this sort of feedback loop.
01:59:10.000And then they start attacking people that differ from this.
01:59:13.000And then they start, you know, calling you, my mother died from this, or my grandmother died from this, as if you somehow or another did it, not the fucking people that did this.
01:59:22.000Crazy research in Wuhan China and then lied about it and then we're like no one's mad at them for the same people who are mad at comedians for questioning it We're applauding Fauci even though there was all these there's clear conversations that showed that yes They were doing what would we consider to be gain-of-function research there?
01:59:42.000Yes, the NIH funded this yes, this is all true and when he's being confronted By Rand Paul and you see him like he's essentially just lying in front of the American people.
01:59:57.000And the same people that generally are these critical thinkers, they were so enamored by this narrative and then so captive by it and then also captive by their initial assertions.
02:00:12.000They're a prisoner of their initial statements on it and they didn't want to say they were wrong.
02:00:16.000It took a lot of people a long time To say, I fucked up.
02:01:01.000And I feel, honestly, even though I was in the center of it all, I felt very fortunate because I can have no questions about how it actually works, how the system actually works to go against people that are dissenters.
02:01:12.000I can have no questions because I was in the middle of it.
02:01:16.000I saw the CNN thing where they made my face yellow and said I was taking horse medication, which is that the most – to say that and repeat that over and over again is such a clear indication that they conspired.
02:01:54.000They had to discredit ivermectin because there's a federal law.
02:01:59.000The emergency use authorization statute says that you cannot issue an emergency use authorization to a vaccine if there is an existing medication that has been approved for any purpose that is demonstrated effective against the target illness.
02:02:21.000So they had to destroy ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine and discredit it and they had to tell everybody it's not effective because if they had acknowledged that it's effective in anybody, the whole $200 billion vaccine enterprise would have collapsed.
02:02:37.000It's a very strange and difficult to navigate subject because there's so many studies.
02:02:45.000And there's a lot of studies that seem to point to the fact that ivermectin doesn't work well for people that have COVID. Yeah, you know, we've looked at all the studies.
02:02:56.000And we, you know, there's over 100 studies on ivermectin, and, you know, I think they're on our website, on CHC's website.
02:03:06.000And then there were a series of studies, and this is what they always do, this is what they did with autism.
02:03:15.000In fact, they designed studies, and the way they designed them to fail is by giving people lethal doses of ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine.
02:03:23.000In fact, in Brazil, the researchers were charged with homicide, and that was one of those I forget whether it was called the Solidarity Study, but it was one of the studies that was commissioned by WHO, paid for by Bill Gates and his people,
02:03:41.000and they were literally giving people four or five times the prescribed doses.
02:03:49.000of ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine in order and you know these were elderly people on their deathbeds and a lot of them could not take that level of toxicity and died and so then they were able to say oh it kills people but it wasn't killing anybody they gave the prescribed doses to and you know and Gates knew what the prescribed dose was for hydroxychloroquine because his foundation Gives it
02:04:19.000to hundreds of millions of people every year in Africa for malaria control.
02:04:23.000And so it wasn't, you know, it's hard to say that it was a mistake that they were overdosing these people.
02:04:30.000So it was a situation where you have the emergency use authorization and that won't work if you have a medication that also works.
02:04:38.000And then you have this medication that also works that happens to be generic.
02:04:42.000Yeah, that costs five cents a pill instead of $3,000 a dose like remdesivir.
02:05:02.000They didn't want something that was prophylactic or early cure.
02:05:07.000That would have meant the whole vaccine issue would have fallen apart.
02:05:14.000Remdesivir was crazy because remdesivir in 2019, so right before the pandemic, Fauci had remdesivir in an Ebola trial with four other drugs in Africa.
02:05:30.000And the IRB, the safety panel, you have to have a safety panel.
02:05:38.000It's called the Institutional Review Board for every clinical trial.
02:05:43.000The safety panel stepped in and pulled remdesivir out because it was killing so many people.
02:05:50.000It was killing more people than the Ebola.
02:05:52.000Ebola kills 53% of the people who get it.
02:06:01.000So why would you take that out of an Ebola, that got thrown out of an Ebola trial, and give it to people with a disease that has an infection fatality rate of 1%?
02:06:11.000Well, I would say that's insane if I didn't know that there was a history of doing similar things.
02:06:18.000In the AIDS crisis with AZT. AZT, which was initially a chemotherapy medication that was killing people in a two-week dose.
02:06:27.000They were giving them—two weeks of this stuff was killing people faster than AIDS was killing people.
02:06:44.000With cancer, in the simplest terms, you're giving a chemotherapy drug that is going to kill you, 100% of the time it's going to kill you, at least at that era, because it's designed to kill human tissue, and you're hoping that it will kill the tumor before it kills the person.
02:07:04.000And it was thrown out as too dangerous to use for two weeks in chemotherapy.
02:07:11.000And now they decided, OK, we're going to give it to people, lifetime course of it, to people of AIDS. And of course, it's going to kill – anybody on it is going to kill.
02:07:22.000Well, the Arthur Ashe thing blew me away because I didn't know that Arthur Ashe was asymptomatic when he – and then he died right after he started taking AZT. And he said publicly, I don't want to be on this.
02:07:37.000I think it's hurting me, but my doctor is going to get mad at me if I get off of it.
02:08:07.000You know, just the fact that that playbook existed.
02:08:12.000They've done it this way in the past and gotten away with it.
02:08:16.000And that when they have drugs that are approved, and they already have these drugs, and if these drugs didn't work on that thing, they'll try them on this thing.
02:08:25.000And then they'll say, in the case of AZT, there's a video of Fauci saying, the reason why it's the only drug we recommend that is prescribed is because it's safe and effective.
02:08:35.000He actually said that about AZT. And he knew at that time— Which is a crazy thing.
02:08:40.000The only way—I mean, one of the tricks they were using is the people who were getting the ACT, they were also giving blood transfusions to.
02:08:50.000Which were keeping them alive and making it seem—if you give somebody a blood transfusion, it perks them up and keeps you alive longer.
02:09:01.000And so they were keeping those people alive artificially in order to, you know, make the drug look like it actually was efficacious.
02:09:10.000That's the crazy thing is what they're allowed to do in studies.
02:09:13.000And one of the first correspondence that you and I had was we had read something where the description of why the COVID vaccines were 100 percent effective.
02:09:26.000And what they used to make that distinction.
02:09:31.000Explain that, because it's such a bizarre—the way they do it, it seems like it should be illegal.
02:09:38.000What they did with the COVID vaccine is they gave the COVID—this is the Pfizer trial.
02:09:45.000We know a lot about the Pfizer trial because that was the one—Pfizer was the one to get an approved vaccine.
02:09:56.000It got one of its vaccines approved, the Cominardi vaccine, but that vaccine was not available in this country.
02:10:03.000But they were able to say to people, oh, we have an approved vaccine, and that made it okay for the colleges and everybody else to force you to take an emergency use authorization vaccine, which is illegal.
02:10:13.000Nobody can tell you to participate in a medical experiment.
02:10:18.000And so they played this kind of shell game.
02:10:20.000But in order to get that, they had to reveal their...
02:10:27.000And what they did was they gave 22,000 people the vaccine and 22,000 similarly situated people the placebo.
02:10:41.000And after six months, and they actually promised to do a five-year study, but then they Cut it back to two months or four months and unblinded it right at the beginning, which is total deception.
02:10:58.000Now we don't know what any of the long-term effects are.
02:11:01.000There's a lot of impacts from vaccines, like every other drug, that have long diagnostic horizons and long incubation periods.
02:11:12.000And if you don't have a five-year placebo-controlled trial, as Fauci himself said, you need eight years, he said.
02:11:19.000You're going to miss a lot, and you could have mayhem, and that's exactly what happened.
02:11:22.000So they used the excuse that this pandemic was so deadly that they had to unblind the trial and give this medication to everyone, otherwise it would be unethical.
02:11:31.000Yeah, otherwise it would be unethical.
02:11:44.000So what they did is they had 22,000 people got the vaccine, 22,000 had done it, and they have six months of data.
02:11:51.000Some of that is unblinded, but it's six months.
02:11:54.000And during that six-month period, in the vaccine group, one person died of COVID. And in the placebo group, two people died from COVID. So that allows Pfizer to tell the public and FDA to tell the public,
02:12:11.000oh, this vaccine is 100% effective because two is 100% of one.
02:12:18.000What they should have been telling Americans and what they're required to under the law Is to give them a number that is called the NNTV, the number needed to vaccinate to save one life.
02:12:31.000How many people do you have to vaccinate to save one life?
02:12:33.000And the answer, of course, is you need to vaccinate 22,000 people to save one life.
02:12:44.000If you can vaccinate 22,000 people to save one life, you better make sure the vaccine itself is not killing anybody.
02:12:51.000Because if it kills one person per 22,000, you've now cancelled out the entire benefit of the product.
02:12:59.000And when they looked at the key metric, which was all-cause mortality, in other words, how many people died of all, not just from COVID, but of all causes in the vaccine group, and how many died from all causes in the placebo group?
02:13:12.000The placebo group had 17 people die, and the vaccine group had 21. So what that means is There were – more people died in the vaccine group.
02:13:34.000That means you're – But didn't the placebo group eventually take the vaccine because they were unblinded?
02:13:53.000But anyway, they gave us the six months of data for the two designated groups and it's an alarming result because there were four to five people who died of cardiac arrest in the vaccine group and only one in the placebo group.
02:14:13.000What that means is if you take the vaccine, you're, you know, 21% more likely to die over six months, according to this data, according to this data, which is, you know, not good data and not enough of a large enough group to really make these kind of predictions,
02:14:33.000If you take the vaccine, you're 21% more likely to die of all causes.
02:14:38.000And And when you look at the data, you see that there's four cardiac arrests, four to five, because one of them looks like a cardiac arrest, but it may not be.
02:14:48.000There's at least four cardiac arrests in the vaccine group and only one in the placebo group, which means If you take the vaccine, you're 400% more likely to die of a cardiac arrest over the next six months than if you didn't.
02:15:14.000You were explaining to me when we were outside, before we came in here, I said I wanted to talk about it here instead.
02:15:18.000You were explaining how, instead of using the VAERS system, that there's a method of analyzing a whole host of data to find out about deaths, how many coffins are ordered,
02:15:34.000how many people die of heart attacks, strokes.
02:16:19.000He saw the 2008 crash coming because he's a numbers guy.
02:16:23.000He sees the world in terms of numbers.
02:16:26.000During the pandemic, he had no kind of early exposure to the medical freedom movement or anything else.
02:16:33.000He just started seeing data that made no sense to him.
02:16:38.000It was the all-cause mortality deaths.
02:16:42.000He started seeing people dying after vaccination that shouldn't have been dying.
02:16:46.000You know, kids on the ball fields, all of these, you know, the athletes, etc.
02:16:51.000But he was looking at these non-conventional data sources like the ones that you spoke of.
02:16:58.000He was looking at insurance industry data that showed excess deaths.
02:17:06.000Particularly in younger groups, spiking after the vaccine and seeing it all over the world.
02:17:12.000And he ended up doing a book on this that is designed to be read in I think an hour or 90 minutes, and it's an extraordinary book because it has all of these graphs that are incredibly convincing,
02:17:30.000But it's the kind of book, if you have a skeptic and you can get them to Sit down for 90 minutes with this book.
02:17:39.000When they get up, they will have converted.
02:17:45.000One part of the book has maybe 1,000 photos of local newspapers reporting athletes dying on playing fields.
02:17:56.000These stories never made the national news, but the local papers were, you know, because they'd happened at the local game, and the local papers were covering them.
02:18:07.000So there was no censorship in the local papers, and it's really, it's sickening.
02:18:12.000I mean, it's terrible, you know, these beautiful children who were dying on the playing field, and COVID was killing people, but it was old people, yeah.
02:20:06.000But in 1976, when they had this, you know, really bad flu shot that they did the same thing with.
02:20:14.000They did a global rollout and everybody had to take it.
02:20:18.000And they pulled the shot after 25 deaths, reported.
02:20:21.00025. So now, I mean, there are, you know, we're living in a different universe now in terms of public health.
02:20:28.000I mean, the pharmaceutical industry has Has captured the regulatory structure and just changed the entire way that people think about public health.
02:20:39.000What do you think could be done about that?
02:20:41.000And what do you think you could do about that?
02:20:43.000You know, I think I am – and I don't want this to sound self-promoting, but I'm ideally suited to do this because I've spent so much time litigating and writing about these agencies.
02:20:58.000I know how to unravel corporate capture.
02:21:00.000I know exactly what to do when I get in there.
02:21:03.000For a lot of them I know the individuals that have to be moved out and the kind of individuals that need to be moved in.
02:21:10.000But also you need to get rid of these really corrupting financial entanglements between The pharmaceutical industry and the regulatory agencies that has put agency capture on steroids, for example, almost 50% of FDA's budget comes from pharmaceutical companies.
02:21:31.000They're working for the pharmaceutical company with CDC. CDC has a $12 billion budget, and about almost $5 billion of that goes to buying vaccines in sweetheart deals from these four companies.
02:21:48.000And then promoting them to the public.
02:21:50.000And so they're really partners with the pharmaceutical industry and the way that you get a promotion at CDC and the way you get recognition and salary increases and good performance reviews is by increasing vaccine uptake, not by finding problems with vaccines.
02:22:08.000It's no longer serving as a regulatory agency.
02:22:12.000NIH has probably even the worst If you work at NIH and you work on a vaccine or other medical product, you are allowed to actually to pocket Royalties from that product.
02:22:28.000So any product that you work on, you can collect royalties on.
02:22:32.000You can collect royalties that are now capped at $150,000 a year for life forever.
02:22:38.000Not just life, but for your children's lives, et cetera.
02:22:41.000As long as that product is sold, you have margin rights for the patent.
02:22:44.000If you worked on it at NIH, so the Moderna vaccine, Which is half owned by NIH, which means NIH will get half billions and billions of dollars from the sales of that vaccine, which they made.
02:22:58.000They're telling everybody, you need to get this.
02:23:01.000But also, there's either four or six individuals who were Anthony Fauci's direct deputies.
02:23:09.000Who themselves are collecting $150,000 a year for life, forever, from that product.
02:23:16.000So the mercantile interest in making...
02:23:20.000Those are people who are not going to find problems with the product because they're paying for their boats, they're paying for their mortgages, they're paying for their kids' education.
02:23:28.000I'm making sure that as many of those vaccines are sold as possible.
02:24:54.000And, you know, we changed the rule in 1997. Prior to 1997, like cigarettes and liquor You couldn't advertise on TV. We changed those rules, and FDA allowed the pharmaceutical companies to advertise.
02:25:12.000And they not only now have a platform from which they can tell everybody, you're sick, you need this, you need that, but also they are able to dictate content on television.
02:25:23.000So they can dictate content on the local news.
02:27:49.000Like, how can you be so sure to say this definitely doesn't, but you're telling me there's a bunch of environmental factors that do cause it and we're aware of those factors, but you're not aware of them and you're an expert in this?
02:29:50.000But nobody in 18 years has been willing to debate me.
02:29:56.000What is that like to carry that around?
02:29:59.000I mean, I know you kind of described it earlier in the Sisyphus analogy, but it's I mean, it's got to be insanely frustrating.
02:30:13.000I mean, you really handle it incredibly well.
02:30:19.000You know, it's frustrating, but I mean, listen.
02:30:25.000I look at some of my friends that I've made over time who have children who were affected, children who were perfectly healthy kids, who exceeded all their milestones,
02:30:40.000and then they lost everything in their two years.
02:30:44.000And a lot of these kids are so severely affected They'll never, you know, hold a job.
02:31:14.000A lot of these parents, for most of them, because the children have these severe anger and violence and they have these tactile sensitivities and light sensitivities and don't like strangers, the parents can't go out.
02:31:30.000You can't get a babysitter to take care of that child.
02:31:35.000And the parents just stop going out on dates.
02:34:07.000It's become the party of pharmaceutical companies, of, you know, the neocons, this very aggressive, belligerent foreign policy, forever wars.
02:34:17.000And then, you know, the kind of political suppression that we saw.
02:34:23.000And this really, this kind of, this bizarre Turning our backs on the American middle class, which is the only thing that sustains democracy.
02:34:35.000If you don't have a middle class, any political scholar, political scientist will tell you that if you have large aggregations of wealth at the top and widespread poverty below, that formulation is too unstable to support democracy.
02:34:59.000And the middle class has just been wiped out in this country and nobody's talking about it.
02:35:05.000And I think that's why Trump was so popular.
02:35:10.000He was the one guy who was talking to those people.
02:35:15.000And they're angry because nobody's listening to them.
02:35:19.000And Trump said, you know, I'm listening to you and I'm going to go break things for you.
02:35:24.000And they're angry and they want things to get broken.
02:35:27.000And I think, you know, my father used to look at Latin America.
02:35:38.000It was widespread poverty below and it was wealth above.
02:35:41.000And US foreign policy was to sort of fortify those oligarchies and support with weapons, et cetera, the military hunters that were keeping those people in suppression because they were anti-communists.
02:35:55.000And my father said, there's going to be a revolution in those countries.
02:35:59.000And if we continue those policies, The communists are going to own the revolution and they're going to own the future.
02:36:08.000And we have to give aid directly to the poor and stop giving it to the oligarchs and stop giving it to the military.
02:36:13.000And that's why my uncle and father started the Alliance for Progress and USAID. To do something that had never done before, which is to develop middle class by funding the development of middle class to the poor.
02:36:26.000And I would say the same thing is happening in this country today, where the oligarchs are running things and the military, and there's got to be a revolution, and either it can be owned by Donald Trump,
02:36:42.000or we can try to marshal and mobilize that energy for a more idealistic vision of our country.
02:36:54.000When my father ran In 1968, he put together a populist coalition of left and right, and he was able to do that.
02:37:06.000He was able to do that by telling the truth to people, including truths that they didn't want to hear.
02:37:14.000On the last day that he died, the day he died, he won the most urban state in our country, which was California, and the most rural state, which was South Dakota.
02:37:25.000He had bridged the gap between, and when I, you know, I was with him when he died.
02:37:31.000In Los Angeles, and then we flew his body back on U.S. to, you know, on Humphreys plane.
02:37:37.000Vice President Humphreys plane to New York.
02:37:40.000And then we waked him in St. Patrick's Cathedral.
02:37:43.000And the crowds just, you know, it was like a flood of humanity on that street.
02:37:53.000People standing ten feet deep for half a mile.
02:37:57.000And then we brought him from Penn Station in Washington.
02:38:01.000He was in the caboose in the coffin, and then there was a train that we took to Union Station in Washington, D.C. And the people on that train were the people who would have been probably one of the greatest governments in United States history.
02:38:21.000And that train ride was supposed to take two and a half hours.
02:38:31.000They were people in military uniforms.
02:38:33.000They were Boy Scouts standing saluting.
02:38:36.000I remember passing a little league field where all of the people, all the kids on both sides were standing, holding their gloves and saluting, and the coaches and all the people in the stand.
02:38:48.000There were Catholic priests, there was rabbis.
02:38:56.000A pickup truck that had six or seven nuns in their habits standing in the bed of the truck, and they were waving rosaries and handkerchiefs at us.
02:39:08.000In the major urban centers, the train stations, we crept through at a crawl to avoid hitting people, but they were just jammed with people, almost all black people in Trenton and Newark and Baltimore and Wilmington.
02:39:24.000And they were singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic.
02:39:54.000And when we got to the mall, my father and Martin Luther King had been talking together.
02:40:03.000And they were talking about how do we get poor people the right, you know, because the Vietnam War was sucking all the money out of the war in poverty.
02:40:11.000And they said, how do we get poor people to get politically mobilized?
02:40:15.000And they said, we need to call them all to Washington, D.C. and have them camp here until Congress acts.
02:40:21.000And so King had died two months before.
02:40:26.000Marian Wright Edelman had brought all these people there, you know, working for the two of them, and there were thousands of men that were encamped in these plastic shanties on the Mall.
02:40:36.000And they all came to the sidewalk and they bowed their heads and held their hats to their chairs and we drove slowly past them up to Arlington Cemetery and we buried my dad next to my uncle.
02:40:49.000Four years later, so that was 68, four years later in 1972, I was studying politics in Boston and American history, and I came across this demographic data that showed that the people, the white people who had lined that train track and who had supported my father in Maryland and Delaware,
02:41:09.000Pennsylvania, and New Jersey during the 68 campaign in the primaries, in 72 did not vote for George McGovern, who was very simpatico with my father on all these issues, very much aligned But they voted instead for George Wallace,
02:41:27.000who was absolutely antithetical to everything my father believed.
02:41:31.000He's a rampant, fierce segregationist, and I knew him very well in his old age.
02:41:37.000But it occurred to me then, and it struck me many times since, that every nation, like every individual, has a darker side and a lighter side.
02:41:47.000And the easiest thing for a politician to do is to appeal to our hatred and our bigotry and our fear and our xenophobia and our mistrust of immigrants or whatever.
02:42:00.000And that every once in a while, you know, politicians like my dad come along who have a different approach, which is to persuade people one way or another to transcend their narrow self-interest and see themselves as part of a community,
02:42:18.000A larger adventure, you know, and be willing to take risks for neighbors who don't look like them because they feel like they're part of something important, you know, part of maybe reconstructing our country and making it live up to its promises and to avoid the seduction of the notion that we can advance ourselves as a people by leaving our poor brothers and sisters behind.
02:42:43.000And my dad was able to do that successfully.
02:43:08.000And, you know, I would like to be able to do that for this country.
02:43:12.000And I think it's, you know, it's the only way that we're going to save this country if people can find a way to unify.
02:43:21.000You know, people from the left and the right and to build the kind of populist movement that my father was able to build in 1968. What has it been like?
02:43:33.000What has the experience been like for you of making the decision to run and then now running and doing these interviews and seeing all these hit pieces written about you and even in the New York Times?
02:44:19.000And the thing is that I'm not going to win this by winning the sympathies of the mainstream media.
02:44:27.000I really think these podcasts have the capacity to change politics in this country this year.
02:44:34.000And you know, it's interesting because in 1960, my uncle, President Kennedy, had realized that this new media called television, which had never been used in a political campaign before, was a media that was very friendly to him for a variety of reasons.
02:44:52.000In other words, he was It was a media that he was able to master pretty well, that people liked to see him on it.
02:45:02.000And it won him the election, which was the narrowest election at that time in American history.
02:45:09.000And then in 2016, Donald Trump recognized a new technology, which was Twitter, that he could communicate in this kind of way that was unique to him.
02:45:21.000You know, these kind of soundbites, very powerful soundbite, You know, outrageous remarks on Twitter that built him an audience.
02:45:46.000Well, I'm not saying that's the only thing that he did.
02:45:49.000He had a lot of other stuff going for him.
02:45:51.000But he had a new media, as I'm – what I'm saying.
02:45:54.000And I think this year the podcasts are going to be – are going to, you know, have the potential to revolutionize American politics because – For the first time, you can end-run the mainstream media.
02:46:08.000I mean, I was talking to somebody about this the other day.
02:46:12.000CNN now has a viewership of, I think, something like 350,000 people a night.
02:46:19.000Tucker, when he was at Fox, had a viewership, at the end, about 4.5 million.
02:46:26.000So he was 10 times as big as CNN. And you, at your top, like McCulloch, I think you were getting almost 40 million or something.
02:46:38.000You are then 10 times bigger than Tucker and 100 times bigger than CNN. And there's a lot of people out there, and this is, for me, it's a good media for a variety of reasons, and I've been able to reach a lot of people.
02:47:25.000And I think there's a lot more that are going to be willing to have you on.
02:47:29.000The question is going to be, like, what happens with those episodes on YouTube?
02:47:33.000We don't have to worry about that with this episode, but with other people, they would.
02:47:39.000People that I know would probably be interested in having you on, but YouTube dangles those strikes over your head.
02:47:46.000And they also dangle demonetization over your head, which is – so say if you have an episode that's very popular but controversial, they can demonetize that episode.
02:47:55.000And if they choose to do so, you lose all the revenue, which could be pretty substantial.
02:47:59.000And so people self-censor because of that.
02:48:03.000Yeah, but the thing is that I'm not running on vaccines.
02:48:09.000The only time that I will talk about vaccines is if somebody asks me about it.
02:48:15.000If you wanted to do this whole interview and never talk about vaccines, it would be fine for me.
02:48:19.000I mean, I think I'll never do an interview like this again, probably, because this is the only place I could do this and really sort of lay out the whole thing.
02:48:29.000Otherwise, this would not survive for two minutes.
02:49:16.000So how did he win with 70 percent of the vote?
02:49:23.000He won because he ran on a peace platform promising to sign the Minsk Accords, which was an agreement that Russia, France and Germany had all agreed to.
02:49:34.000Which would have left Donbass as part of Ukraine, as an autonomous region, so they can now enjoy their own language, the ethnic Russians, and protect themselves from attack by the central government, which was US-installed central government,
02:49:53.000and that NATO would stay out of the Ukraine.
02:49:57.000And that's what the Russians wanted, a pledge that NATO will never go in, which we should have made for them.
02:50:03.000We have no business putting NATO on the Ukraine.
02:50:32.000And Iraq is now worse off than we found it.
02:50:35.000We killed more Iraqis than Saddam Hussein.
02:50:37.000We forced Iraq into this bondage to Iran where they're now a proxy state of Iran.
02:50:44.000We've reduced that nation into this incoherent mess that is just a battle between Shia and Sunni death squads.
02:50:53.000We created ISIS. We then had to do the Syrian war, the Yemen war, the Afghan, Pakistan.
02:50:59.000We drove two million refugees into Europe and destabilized every democracy in Europe for the next two generations and created Brexit.
02:51:07.000That's what we got for that $8 trillion and the ravaged middle class in our country.
02:51:13.000The same people who we thought, the neocons who ran that operation, lied to us about weapons of mass destruction, tricked us into that war, and who we thought were now out of government forever, pariahs, you know, in disgrace.
02:51:28.000They're now all back in the Biden administration with a new project.
02:51:32.000And, you know, Lloyd Austin, who's Aydin, the cement secretary, said the purpose of the war for us is to exhaust Russia and degrade its capacity to fight any place in the world.
02:51:44.000Well, that's not good for the Ukraine because the way we're exhausting Russia is by butchering 350,000 Ukrainian kids.
02:51:53.000I mean we have turned that nation into an abattoir of death for the flower of Ukrainian youth.
02:52:02.000Putin is a thug, a monster, a gangster who illegally invaded and didn't need to.
02:52:08.000We need to take responsibility for the provocations which we have, you know, which these neocons have been provoking for, you know, for over a decade.
02:52:17.000And by the way, the reason we're in that war is because Americans are good people.
02:52:24.000And, you know, we were convinced, granted we're using these kind of comic book depictions, That they're now, you know, the military industrial complex is now expert at sowing from us this kind of good versus evil, you know, this whole thing that gets us into these wars.
02:52:43.000And keep, you know, that war is a money laundering racket for the military contractors.
02:52:48.000The money is going there and coming right back and then they all go on CNN, you know, the generals, etc., who if you look at their resumes, they're all working for General Dynamics and The military contractors and they tell us we need to be in this war and tell us horror stories,
02:53:05.000But we're there because Americans are good people and they have compassion and they want to redress a wrong butt.
02:53:12.000By the way, my son went over there and fought.
02:53:17.000Without telling us, he left law school and had a summer job and he went over there and joined the Foreign Legion and fought as a As a machine gunner for a special forces unit during the Kharkiv offensive.
02:53:31.000The Ukrainian people, the valor of those people and the anguish that they're suffering is beyond any description.
02:53:44.000We need to look at our role in it and we need to look for roads to peace and try to end the killing.
02:53:55.00030,000 to 80,000 Russians with kids who have died there, too.
02:53:59.000And, you know, we shouldn't be exulting over that.
02:54:02.000We should be trying to find ourselves.
02:54:04.000The U.S. should be the grown-up in the room that's saying, how do we stop the bloodshed?
02:54:09.000That's what we should be doing over there and not to achieve these.
02:54:12.000And I'll just say one other thing, Joe.
02:54:50.000I have a friend who is a commercial fisherman who spent his life on the fisheries, had a business, put it together, but because it's a private business, because we are working a lot for other people, he doesn't have benefits.
02:56:19.000That's $24 trillion that they had to print to pay for nothing.
02:56:25.000That money, the way they're paying it back, they're not going to tell us they're raised taxes because you can't do that.
02:56:30.000It's a hidden tax called inflation, and it hits the poor and the middle class, and it has dismantled the middle class in this country.
02:56:37.000My friends, food bills for basic foods like chicken, dairy, and eggs has increased 76% in two years to pay for the Iraq war, the Ukraine war, the Iraq war, and the lockdowns.
02:56:52.000His food prices are going up and now the government's selling him, while we have plenty of money for the military and the banks, we don't have it for Americans who are hardworking people.
02:57:17.000We were told after – in 1992, when the Soviet Union collapsed, we were told we were going to get a peace dividend.
02:57:26.000The military expenditure was going to go from $600 billion a year to $200 billion and we were going to stop making billion-dollar stealth bombers that can't fly in the rain.
02:57:37.000And that we're going to take that money home and build schools with it and build infrastructure and give health care, good health care in the inner cities.
02:58:06.000If you include national security apparatus and all the stuff that you have to walk through at the airports, and if you include the 300 billion to the veterans, which you can't cut.
02:58:21.000You know, the veterans are, you know, we have 29 a day killing themselves.
02:58:27.000You know, these wars are not good for our country or our kids, and we need to stop being an empire and instead come home, rebuild the middle class, and then project economic power the way the Chinese do, who are eating our lunch because they know not to project military power,
02:58:59.000So he was surrounded by military-industrial conflicts.
02:59:05.000And he learned very early at an intelligence apparatus that he realized early on that the purpose of the CIA and the intelligence apparatus was to create a constant pipeline of new wars for the military-industrial complex three days before he took the oath of office.
02:59:26.000Eisenhower, who was the outgoing president, gave what is probably the most important speech in American history, which was where he warned against the military-industrial complex.
03:00:36.000And in the middle of it, in the night, they came to him and said, they're getting wiped out on the beach and you need to send in the military and invade.
03:00:43.000And he said, we're not going to do it.
03:02:03.000And he signed that day a national security order ordering all troops out of Vietnam, U.S. troops.
03:02:09.000The first thousand over the next month, and then the rest by the beginning of 1965. And then a month later he was killed.
03:02:22.000But what his view was is that he believed that the view of Americans abroad should not be a soldier with a gun.
03:02:31.000It should be a Peace Corps volunteer building wells and it should be USAID helping poor people and it should be Alliance for Progress building middle class.
03:02:52.000In Africa today, there are more statues to John Kennedy, more boulevards named after him, more hospitals, schools, universities, avenues, and all the major cities named after him than any other president.
03:03:05.000The Chinese have taken that template and done the same thing now.
03:03:14.000All these countries that were supposedly allied with us Are now realigning with the Chinese and they're switching to their currency because the Chinese are not there to kill people.
03:03:26.000They're there to build roads, to build universities, to build colleges.
03:03:31.000And it turns out that people like that a lot more.
03:03:35.000And we should be projecting economic power around the globe and not military power.
03:03:42.000But what do you think happens when you get into office?
03:03:46.000Like, if you're talking about your uncle who's assassinated and you believe the intelligence agencies were part of that, what happens to you?
03:04:00.000I'm aware of that and I'm not – I'm aware of that danger and I don't live in fear of it at all but I'm not stupid about it and I take precautions.
03:04:15.000So I do things that I don't want to do.
03:04:21.000And I live my life now, you know, in ways that I don't want to.
03:04:25.000I like to be out, you know, shaking hands with people and going alone into communities.
03:04:31.000And, you know, there's things I can't do anymore.
03:04:35.000But I do it because I know those risks exist and I know that I pose a big threat to many vested interests and that there is a danger in that.