This is our first podcast coming out as our true selves, we re furries. We talk about how we met at a furry convention and how we got into the furry community. We also talk about wearing a mask in the hot Florida sun in the summer and how it makes us feel like we re in a simulation. Also, we talk about our favorite furry porn and why we re not attracted to furry porn. We hope you enjoy this episode, it s our first ever podcast and we re so excited to be here with you. We ll see you soon! Logo by Courtney DeKorte. Theme by Mavus White. Music by PSOVOD and tyops. All rights reserved. Used by permission. Please do not use this music in any way without permission. We do not own the rights to any music used in this podcast. This podcast was produced and produced by us and is not affiliated with any of the artists mentioned in this episode. Thank you so much for all the support and support we ve gotten from our listeners and supporters. If you like what you re listening, please leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. If you re enjoying this podcast, please consider leaving us a review and a review. We really appreciate it! We really do appreciate it. XOXO. xoxo. Please don t forget to tell a friend about this podcast and tell us what you think about it. We re looking out for us on social media about our podcast and what we re listening to us. We appreciate all the love and support us. Thank you. Love ya. . and we really much, love ya. XOXOXO! - MURFS. - E.A. and we appreciate you. -MURFS! XO. -P.E. -A.S. -E.O.C.O -MOOO.R.Y. -D. ( ) (A.B. (S.M. & A.M., S.I.T. (A) (C. (FURFS) ) (P.A., A.J. A. E. (C) (F. (B.C.) & P.A.) (M. (J. (D. (V. ( ) ) )
00:04:10.000If you were like a very tortured, socially awkward person, your life has just been a mess.
00:04:19.000But you are, for whatever reason, attracted sexually to the idea of it, or maybe not even sexually, maybe just attracted to the idea of it.
00:04:26.000But then you do it, and you get to be not just innocuous, not just like someone that gets picked on, not that, but instead attractive.
00:06:35.000This is having kids right now and like just having like a vague understanding of Kurzweil's predictions for the singularity and just like considering like you know with my kid I will tell him like with the car I'm like you know probably when you're old enough to drive They won't have steering wheels anymore.
00:06:57.000You're probably not gonna be Driving the way I do because definitely don't you think like by if they can just prove see this this meatheads like me That'd be like fuck that bro.
00:07:10.000Yeah, but if they can eliminate all deaths You're gonna have to take cars like that to a track You're going to have to take the cars that I enjoy, you're going to have to take them to a track and drive them around.
00:08:51.000I don't remember who came up with it, but basically they're studying neighborhoods that had huge police presences, bad areas, hyper-low-income areas.
00:09:13.000The cops realized they didn't have to patrol anymore after a certain amount of time because people assimilate the police state inside of them.
00:09:22.000And just like you're saying, now you're policing yourself.
00:09:25.000And that is the ultimate when you think about trying to save money, when you think about controlling populations, or when you think about the huge problem of empire.
00:09:37.000Once you spread out too far, it's incredibly expensive to keep...
00:09:42.000Everything supplied and everything in control and to keep your like commanders doing what you say.
00:09:48.000And so, you know, the best thing for an empire is for people to not even know that they're there, but to be like following the general prescription of the emperor, you know?
00:10:04.000Don't put your fucking face on the coin.
00:10:07.000What you want to do is get your philosophy into the brain of the people that you have caught.
00:10:13.000I think the problem today is that there's so many more interesting narratives than the official narrative.
00:10:22.000It used to be that you had a president that would stand up and talk to people, and he would give these speeches that everyone would listen to.
00:10:30.000And that's Eisenhower at the end of his terms when he's warning America about the military-industrial complex.
00:12:48.000Dude, here's the perfect business model.
00:12:51.000You create a situation where you are selling drugs to people and then arresting them and taking your drugs back, plus all their stuff, and then reselling the drugs, rinse and repeat.
00:13:06.000And you know who to arrest because you're selling it to them.
00:13:12.000And you just keep, it's basically like throwing out fishing nets, man.
00:13:16.000You just throw out the nets, let them sell the drugs long enough to get a shit ton of money, some nice cars, pull the nets back in, you got the drugs, you got the cars, you got the money.
00:13:27.000It's an incredible, and also the, you know, I'm sometimes suspicious regarding the idea that they incinerate the drugs that they...
00:15:54.000And if you could do a chart to the size of your room versus the bad decisions you've made in your life, I bet you would find some correlations.
00:16:05.000Yeah, you do have to, I mean, there's just no way around it.
00:16:09.000This is why I think karma is a wonderful and perfect way to articulate this, which is just like, where you're at, everything around you, That's your karma.
00:18:23.000If you're imparting some of your mind, some of your thinking to a child, I wonder what effect it would have at the age you were when you had the child.
00:19:35.000Exclusive this is a real special coming at this time Al Pacino 83 break silence to celebrate 29 year old girlfriend's pregnancy after claims He demanded paternity test because she hoodwinked him.
00:19:45.000Yeah, there is the actor revealed his girlfriend Noor Alfala Was we're expecting last week initial reports claimed that Al was not pleased over the baby, but how do we know?
00:19:58.000You know, it's like people say things like that Which he has now confirmed.
00:20:03.000Underneath it says, voiced his delight.
00:20:06.000Sources told Daily Mail that wasn't true, which is now confirmed.
00:20:27.000They're basically saying this is not true, so he's delighted to have a baby with his girlfriend, and so people made up this story, and we read it.
00:23:31.000Like that correlation doesn't work because when you look at some countries like I think it's, is it Japan that has a very high rate of, they play a lot of violent video games, but they have way less violence?
00:23:54.000And some people think that it might actually have the opposite effect.
00:23:57.000There is a potential in some humans that they play those violent video games and they would get out any kind of wild, crazy instinct that they might have.
00:24:08.000I want you to imagine if epigenetics are real.
00:24:13.000There's a certain amount of us that are imparting memories Of being in war to other kids.
00:24:42.000No judgments, but it almost makes sense.
00:24:46.000That it would work to actually stop violence.
00:24:49.000So the idea is like, what is promoting violence?
00:24:52.000And my answer to that is like, being a human, poverty Putting someone through a terrible life, forcing someone into bad situations, that's what creates all of it.
00:25:08.000It's very weird the way we address the problem of violence, because we only look at it in terms of the action itself.
00:25:17.000We don't want to go all the way back to the source.
00:25:20.000We don't want to go back and try to fix the source.
00:25:24.000There's a big problem that happens when you start doing that, is instead of being able to transform violent people into one-dimensional sociopathic creatures, suddenly you like get back far enough and they're, I don't know,
00:25:39.000watching their mom and dad OD on heroin.
00:25:44.000And again, not to say we don't need prisons and justice and all that, but when you realize, oh yeah, you're just looking at like a misplaced defense mechanism that this human had to learn because of whatever they fucking came out of.
00:25:59.000Now, I'm not saying it's all sociopaths had horrific experiences.
00:26:03.000I just, looking at my own shitty defense mechanisms and then like going in therapy and connecting them to the past, it's easy to see Where, like, the aspects of my personality that are not conducive to harmony came from.
00:26:17.000It's just that, you know, the kids are fucking so tough.
00:27:09.000I think when the Younger Dryas impact happened, if it happened 11,800 years ago, they believe, I think the people that survived that were fucking monsters, because they had to be.
00:30:04.000Scientists from archaeology, architecture, engineering, and geology around the world have no understanding who or why the Longyu caves were carved into the earth.
00:30:12.000Currently 24 hand carved caves encompassing a staggering 30,000 square meters have been found so far.
00:30:18.000Each grotto is carved into solid siltstone and descends roughly 30 meters down, with stone rooms, bridges, gutters, and ponds.
00:30:26.000The Longyu caves are supported by pillars that are evenly dispersed throughout the caves, and the walls, ceiling, and stone columns are uniformly decorated with chisel marks in a pattern of parallel lines and ornate designs.
00:30:37.000Despite their magnitude and the work required to build them, no indication of their construction, or even their existence, has been discovered in archival sources.
00:33:50.000You know there's like this humans have this interesting like temporal blindness like the the way that we the way time passes for us produces the illusion of solidity and so that makes that confuses people because they think that there's permanence here when if we could just see if we lived longer and we could see time faster We would feel like we were in some kind of ocean of undulating matter with
00:34:20.000these voids in it that we hang out in, like little bubbles in the ocean.
00:35:35.000This is one of the really funny things about humans.
00:35:38.000We are capable of ignoring internal realities.
00:35:42.000We can somehow distract ourselves from the obvious cause of our suffering and equate it with a million other things than just what it actually is.
00:35:54.000Dude, I got so fat during the pandemic.
00:37:50.000And that's why when you see someone who makes a turn for the best, like you see good things happen to them and they get this sparkle in their eye and they're excited, you get excited too.
00:38:26.000We focus on half of what's really happening.
00:38:31.000People focus on the light and what's good and when things are going right for them, completely ignoring the fact that, in general, When shit's going bad, that's the stuff that's made you interesting.
00:38:46.000Down the road, that's what the stories are told about.
00:38:48.000That's what the jokes are written about.
00:39:00.000Like that though and the two are completely connected like especially if you zoom out of time Yeah, and you'll realize you're growing out of your worst moment Hopefully for the better and the worst moment actually made you smarter It made you like appreciate life more it made you like less like dude once I got my ball cut off that was a fucking Game-changer dude because like you just you just learn how to be in the present moment Like you can't get off.
00:39:31.000Your illusion of immortality is destroyed.
00:44:32.000That someone took the most ferocious predatory beast of the forest that operates in packs and they communicate telepathically and they turn that thing into this adorable loves punch.
00:45:12.000The book is so psychedelic, but, you know, like, the...
00:45:17.000The idea is that the character of McMurphy, Jack Nicholson's character, and again, this is my own analysis.
00:45:25.000I don't know what the actual literary analysis of it is.
00:45:27.000He represents an undomesticated human.
00:45:31.000And the people in the ward Are humans that couldn't function in what he calls society the combine.
00:45:40.000They couldn't function in the combine.
00:45:42.000So they're being brought into the asylums to get like redomesticated just so they could function in the combine.
00:45:49.000And he represents like an undomesticated human who enters into like a conditioning center designed to melt people back down, build them back up and send them out into the world and be good functioning domesticated humans.
00:46:12.000Like Nurse Ratched, and again, because the narrator is chief, that big Native American dude who's in the movie, that's the narrator of the book.
00:46:40.000She'll speed up time so that like a year goes by in a day or slow down time so that like a second lasts like 10 years and that's just one of the many ways that she's basically torturing the people in the ward.
00:46:58.000She's constantly giving them drugs, tying them to their beds and always this threat, this like threat is hovering which is if you fuck up too much, If you get too angry at Nurse Ratched, who is a monster, essentially the way he describes it,
00:47:14.000it's the Demi or just the Antichrist, then you know what happens?
00:47:17.000They're gonna fucking give you a lobotomy.
00:47:20.000They're gonna cut out your brain, turn you into a zombie.
00:48:19.000I see straps, and I see people holding his arms.
00:48:23.000Jesus Christ, you know how fucking terrifying that must be to feel that rod going into your brain, knowing they're gonna turn you into a vegetable?
00:52:15.000Bulandashar region of the Indian forest.
00:52:18.000There resided Dina Sanachar, a feral child of merely six years old.
00:52:23.000Sanachar lived amidst a wolf pack, adapting to their ways and partaking in their activities.
00:52:29.000This remarkable case serves as a vivid demonstration of the impact of environmental factors on human behavior.
00:52:35.000It exemplifies how the availability of resources, the upbringing, environment, and the ability to adapt to surroundings during childhood can shape an individual's physical and mental abilities, ultimately ensuring survival.
00:52:48.000I mean, this is kind of what we've been talking about.
00:53:23.000Like that's a real thing that's happened more than once where a guy will be a serial killer and he'll convert his girlfriend to becoming a serial killer and they can kill people together.
00:53:32.000What does that conversation start off like?
00:53:35.000According to Snopes, the only thing that's not true about that story is that he wasn't the only kid.
00:56:22.000And you know what's really interesting about it?
00:56:25.000Like, you know, I get, like, people on the left are furious with him, and just like people on the right hate Rachel Maddow or whatever, but he was mocked.
00:56:35.000For talking about the UFO wreckage stuff like they People in the comments were like he's talking about UFOs Like it like he like saw a crop circle and talked about it not like let's let's hear it.
00:56:47.000Here it is I expect in the coming days and weeks For the Ukrainian counteroffensive to yield results,
00:57:06.000and I'm here to tell you that the last chapter of the Battle of Bagmut is yet to be written.
00:57:15.000I'm here to tell you that the Russian military is about to have holy hell unleashed upon them.
00:57:25.000That kind of guy you don't want running anything.
00:57:36.000Just the way to talk that way about something with so much weight on it.
00:57:42.000Yeah, we went at the point that you're like talking like he's gonna move you're celebrating human the human debt like essentially the human sacrifice of conscripts like you're celebrating Human sacrifice in and in some it's human sacrifice that we've written off as being okay Russia gave him a there's an arrest warrant out for him for those comments that he made from Russia He said my crime was speaking truth to power god damn I hate that phrase that phrase gets Fucking thrown around by a lot of morons,
00:58:12.000you know, I mean I know it's a real phrase and people when they mean it I get it But my crime was speaking truth to power that fucking freaks me out it freaks hawks are creepy dude like it's like Somehow they've managed to get to a place where they can publicly celebrate human violent human like the Just essentially,
00:59:39.000You can clearly, from the micro, there are times where you're going to have to use violence in a society.
00:59:48.000There's times where someone's losing their mind, swinging a samurai sword in the middle of the street, and Or whatever and like cops have to take him out.
00:59:58.000There's obviously, this is obvious, but like to then like celebrate that you had to like kill a lunatic or something is so dark.
01:00:11.000Lindsey Graham, if you're so into this shit, why don't we start scalping the fucking Russians?
01:00:17.000We'll just cut pieces, start wearing a necklace of Russian fingers, you know, if you're so into murdering people and also ignoring the demographics of the people who are getting fucking slaughtered.
01:00:32.000I mean, you can see videos of them being dragged out of their houses and taken to the middle of Ukraine to just get thrown into a fucking blender, dude.
01:00:43.000And that's what he's tap dancing about.
01:03:46.000Because if nuclear war breaks out because of all this, and these people are just flippantly supporting this continued conflict with no talk at all about some sort of a compromise.
01:07:04.000So any attempt at, like, stopping a war...
01:07:10.000Without World War III or violence or whatever, it's glorious.
01:07:14.000Even if it fails, even if it makes you look like a weak, pathetic piece of shit, long term you're going to look great if you were a peacemaker in the world versus a Lindsey Graham.
01:07:26.000Lindsey Grahams, man, history does not look at them in a kind way.
01:08:12.000And to, like, make it and boil it down to a rah-rah football pep rally speech is crazy.
01:08:20.000You know, an AI wizard out there who wants to do something that will probably be very controversial?
01:08:25.000Needs to put together a montage of the videos of all the drones blowing up Russians and replace the adults with kids so that you see the children version of them being blown up.
01:08:44.000You know, because that's the weird thing about it.
01:08:47.000Once you get to a certain height At that point, we celebrate you getting exploded.
01:08:54.000But, you know, like, if kids were doing this shit, like, we would end it immediately, regardless of...
01:09:01.000If my kids are squabbling and, like, one of them bites the other or something or, like, whatever, like, it doesn't matter anymore about the fairness or whatever is happening.
01:11:10.000And they killed that guy with a hammer.
01:11:11.000The guy seemed like resigned to his fate.
01:11:14.000Dude, it's crazy that the thing is when you so like the big critique of Russia that Lindsey Graham has is you get arrested if you say anything, right?
01:11:24.000Yeah Meaning if we have prisoners who've been quote recruited fighting out there then the Russia is sending Anti-Putin people into a meat grinder to die.
01:11:38.000So you spoke out against Russia, you've been in a Russian prison, you get recruited, and then they just send you into all of these weapons given to Ukraine by the Western world.
01:11:52.000So that's the, you know, so when you break it down at that level, suddenly these aren't like these fucking Russians are like, let me go invade the place where my mother-in-law lives.
01:12:41.000I could be wrong, but I feel like there was some shift in their censorship model that was happening, but I could be wrong about that.
01:12:47.000Well, it's not when it comes to RFK Jr. They're deleting his old podcasts.
01:12:53.000They deleted one from Theo Vaughn from a year ago, and they deleted one from Hot Boxing with Mike Tyson, which is more than a year ago, too.
01:13:10.000You could say that it's because of misinformation, and this is because he talks about vaccines.
01:13:18.000And, you know, he talks about he was an environmental attorney before he, you know, was anything.
01:13:23.000And, you know, his whole thing was trying to hold companies accountable for what they're doing by ruining the environment and lying about it.
01:13:34.000And for them to take that guy and say, you can't do that with other stuff.
01:13:44.000How come no one wants to hear him out?
01:13:46.000How come no one wants to hear him out?
01:13:49.000That book, The Real Anthony Fauci, is fucking terrifying.
01:13:53.000And if it's not true, why isn't he getting sued?
01:13:57.000If that book is true, if all the things that he's saying and he has references for everything, if it's all accurate, we should all read that book.
01:14:26.000Essentially, you're saying, you're too dumb to parse this information in a rational way, so we're gonna protect you from it because it's like a poison.
01:14:36.000It's gonna infect your brain, and we have to protect you.
01:14:48.000The idea would be that you teach your kid to confront false things, learn why they're not real, and then instead of trying to prevent your kid from seeing everything.
01:15:02.000Like, I'm not letting my kid watch Blade Runner or some shit like that, but just that if you get too overprotective with your kids, like try to hide death from them, for example.
01:15:59.000Obviously, there's no real Santa Claus, but there is a very vivid, living entity within the interconnected minds of everyone who believes in it.
01:16:10.000The problem is, if you tell your kid that Santa's an egregore, and then your kid's gonna tell all the kids at school, and then you're the asshole.
01:17:55.000It's a fucking materialistic panopticon.
01:17:57.000You're being constantly monitored by some mythical North Pole thing that's probably, like, I guarantee if we look at the way Santa is paying those fucking elves, I guarantee it's like they don't want to be there.
01:18:10.000Elves don't want to be in the North Pole.
01:19:41.000The article here was really funny because...
01:19:44.000They're like, okay, we found the receptors that psilocybin is working on, and the way it affects the receptors is a thousand times more potent than antidepressants.
01:19:52.000And now that they know where these receptors are, theoretically, they could invent a medicine that doesn't get people high.
01:20:00.000It's so sad that you're celebrating that?
01:20:59.000That uses you to make money on a regular basis and will oppose anything that gets in the way of that profit, even if that thing is overall net positive for humanity, which psilocybin is.
01:22:24.000Like, this doesn't make sense for any – like, generally anything has, like, more side effects than this shit that they gave whoever she was.
01:22:34.000But the point is, man, like, to imagine that stopped.
01:22:38.000To imagine like that was the only time that's happened and that will never happen again with pharmaceutical companies is really crazy.
01:22:46.000Well, it's really crazy that all it took was the pandemic for people to think that way.
01:22:50.000But the problem is the way you think about it with the information that you have about thalidomide, with the information you have about the opioid crisis and...
01:23:46.000Every commercial makes you think that you're gonna be at that barbecue.
01:23:49.000You're like, I don't have any friends, but if I take this, I'll be laughing and I'll be on that raft with everybody else, going down the river, having a good old time.
01:24:31.000When a corporation has growth, when they have massive growth, like these pharmaceutical drug corporations had when they were manufacturing a medication that everybody had to take, when they make that money and then it's over, they don't want to go back to 2018 levels.
01:24:53.000And I think when you get in those corporations, when you're working in them, it's a filter bubble.
01:24:58.000So like, you know, if you look at corporations as cults, you know, there's a cult-like aspect to corporations.
01:25:04.000So you get into the cult and then over time you get indoctrinated into like resonating with whatever their particular version of reality, whatever their reality tunnel is.
01:25:14.000And so I think in that reality tunnel, They truly believe that everything they're doing makes sense, that it's good to do, that it's all justified.
01:25:26.000Because some of them, when confronted, they seem authentically shocked.
01:25:29.000They seem like, wait, we're trying to help.
01:25:34.000They don't seem to have connected to how weird it is to have that massive a profit margin When it comes to giving people medicine to heal them.
01:26:18.000So then there's that weird, you know, if you want to sell umbrellas, you need a terrain.
01:26:22.000So then, you know, weirdly, the moment you start making mega profit off of people's sickness, you have, like, under the surface of everything, you need people to be sick to continue to take those great fucking vacations.
01:26:38.000And so that's where it gets really creepy, right?
01:26:46.000And then, I don't know, if you looked up, I don't know the exact amount, but apparently there's a huge percentage of money coming into networks from the pharmaceutical companies that's holding them up, which is why, I guess you could just understand how much money they're getting.
01:27:03.000Just every time you see a pharmaceutical company commercial come on on anything you're watching, Make note of that.
01:27:09.000And then you can see how much that programming is being paid for by these companies.
01:27:16.000Dude, that's really spooky, man, because then...
01:27:20.000Then they become kind of the de facto government.
01:28:30.000So it says Anderson Cooper was given $12 million to promote vaccines.
01:28:34.000Yeah, there's a website called, it's not a reputable website that says Pfizer pays millions to CNN for COVID jab promotion, which is like, that's...
01:29:16.000You know, I think that the issue is, regardless of whether someone's writing someone a check, Or whether or not it just is in your paycheck from the company that's getting checks from another place,
01:29:33.000it's just like it's adding this extra...
01:29:35.000It's like the people who put their money in the Cayman Islands or whatever.
01:29:37.000It's like adding this extra layer to you getting money from those corporations.
01:29:42.000It's also what they do at firing squads, right?
01:30:23.000Robert Kennedy Jr. claims that 80% of Anderson Cooper's $12 million salary comes from Pfizer.
01:30:29.000I read an article that was saying that he was...
01:30:31.000I couldn't find the interview yet, but in an interview he said that 10 million of that 12 is coming directly from Pfizer and he's promoting it separately, but I don't know where he got that information from.
01:30:41.000Can you find what percentage of advertising dollars for CNN comes from pharmaceutical companies?
01:30:47.000Not CNN specifically, but in that same article I've seen with this, he makes the claim, which we've read before, is that 75% of advertising revenues in the mainstream media comes from that.
01:30:56.000But I just found an article from Last month, February.
01:31:00.000It says at least for TV that's down, but it's because they're changing the spending to digital buys.
01:32:32.000They're putting people like that against people they found at a bar and were like, I want to be on TV! Or it's just some girl who's hot and wants a lot of money for her Instagram.
01:32:42.000They're out in the wilderness for two days and are like, I have to see my kids!
01:33:25.000I don't understand the filming process, because, like, I was looking at some of the shots, and it's like, how are they getting these shots?
01:34:14.000So you can film the animal coming in, you can film the flight of your arrow, and it's actually good For ethical reasons, because you can see whether or not you made a perfect shot, and so if you made a perfect shot, just let the animal die, and don't freak it out and chase it.
01:37:04.000According to State Farm, between July 21 and June 22, they're down 5.5% from the previous 1.9 million animal collisions, and 67% of those are deer.
01:37:31.000My friend Cam Haynes in his hometown, or near his hometown rather, some guy hit a deer with his car and it flew through the air and came through the window and killed the guy behind him.
01:38:47.000To think your whole life you're thinking you're going to do a heart attack or old age and a fucking deer is going to slam into you one night.
01:38:56.000You get up in the morning and go, you know what?
01:43:45.000It's so creepy that We're at this time where all this UFO information is coming out, but yet people are still very reluctant to buy into it or even give it attention.
01:44:54.000Not only are we not alone, but some people know we're not alone and they're not sharing it with everybody else because they want to profit.
01:45:03.000Because they want to back-engineer these things, because they want it for national security reasons, because they want to protect us from the possibility that China gets this technology or Russia gets this technology and then everybody has spaceships.
01:45:21.000You don't get to decide whether or not human beings go from cradle to the grave without information that you have that would literally change the way we think about the universe itself.
01:45:32.000Like, for you to hold on to that because you want to win?
01:46:41.000So if you have a spaceship from another planet, I do not think that if you're actively trying to back-engineer that thing that you're not going to involve defense contractors.
01:46:53.000You're not going to involve people that make jets?
01:48:19.000And they think that there's different, like, some alien life is probably, you know, 100,000 years ahead of us, 700,000 years ahead of us, a million years ahead of us.
01:48:32.000But some alien life is probably millions and millions of years ahead of us.
01:48:37.000They probably don't want to fuck with us anymore.
01:48:39.000But I bet the intermediate classes, I bet they're like the watchdogs for the universe, to make sure that intelligence reaches that crescendo.
01:48:48.000That it reaches that moment where you can join the intergalactic hive of minds.
01:48:56.000The moment where all the barbaric instincts of our primate DNA are expunged.
01:49:40.000It's this insane like pause in civilization and then there's this sort of like rapid desire to claim ground and to reformulate and re-change and re-imagine and restructure.
01:49:57.000And the government's gonna try to get involved, and social groups are gonna try to get involved.
01:50:01.000There's a money grab, and then there's donations, and you find out that some of the people that are involved in the organization are buying mansions.
01:50:07.000They're like, don't worry about this mansion, I'm out here doing good work.
01:50:13.000But I think that's a microcosm of what probably happened when the fucking asteroid slammed into us.
01:50:20.000I think when civilization got wiped out, I really believe that it was the worst of the worst.
01:50:27.000And that's why we have such horrible instincts.
01:50:30.000I think we're just not far enough removed from that to get it, like, strung out of your DNA. Yeah.
01:50:38.000And if you look at, like, Pinker's work, if you look at any of these people that are studying crime and violence over time, like, if you just...
01:50:45.000I know about anecdotal experiences, I know about your own personal life, but you've got to set that aside for a moment and just look at overall.
01:52:38.000Like, I think that the weird voodoo that has fallen upon so many people believing that what's in your phone, what you're looking at, is a reflection of truth It's really bad.
01:52:53.000Like if you want to talk about- The problem is that sometimes it is.
01:52:55.000Well, yeah, I mean, but you- That's the problem.
01:52:57.000The job is you have to discern one from the other.
01:53:01.000The idea with educating people wasn't like teach them how to do fucking algebra.
01:53:06.000It was like teach them how to be rational.
01:53:08.000Separate truth from non-truth because the moment people are incapable of doing that, then they become susceptible to con artistry at the highest level.
01:53:17.000And the moment that happens, you get all the awful events that have happened throughout history.
01:53:21.000So the problem is, man, this replication of reality.
01:53:27.000We're getting second-hand, no matter what it is, if you're watching TV or you're looking at your phone or whatever, you're getting second-hand digitized reality.
01:54:17.000Yeah, like Americans go to other countries and they're all fucking freaked out.
01:54:21.000And just completely anxiety-ridden because of the connection to world events or a reality tunnel that's being presented to them by...
01:54:34.000Wizards who are getting gold from the alchemists.
01:54:39.000That's basically what's happening is the alchemy guild is paying the media wizards and the media wizards are like casting a spell on everyone to believe this very specific Reality tunnel.
01:56:07.000So if I could just give you some bullshit information, you will forget I told it to you in a hot tub when my eyes were dilated and I was just like rambling about something.
01:56:19.000You might accidentally remember that truth is truth because you forgot the source.
01:56:49.000You don't want to, like, be rambling about fucking aliens at pharmaceutical companies with a nasty fucking- That just makes you more human, Duncan.
02:00:27.000Dude, let me tell you, man, the fucking day they cut canned lemon, a quiver went through everyone at CNN. Like, Jesus fucking Christ, we're all in danger here.
02:02:54.000He does it with Don Lemon, and Don Lemon is there just like, like a curator of a child that was just given some psychoactive drugs and they're bouncing off the walls.
02:04:47.000I'd like to think this whole thing is just so ridiculous to him.
02:04:50.000He can't believe his son has fucking dropped his laptop off at a fucking repair shop filled with all sorts of evidence of crimes and dick porn, feet porn, chaos.
02:06:26.000Yeah and coke and he's running the mob Yeah, it's great.
02:06:29.000I mean the episodes I saw it's fucking great and the end they're just sitting there and this guy seems to be paying attention to them and Oh really?
02:08:05.000And somehow we're letting that happen.
02:08:07.000Like, globally, we're letting people who are clearly not okay up here, who are clearly, like – Imagine you walk into a 7-Eleven and you see some old dude talking like Biden was talking to Don Lemon.
02:08:26.000If you didn't stop and say, hey, are you okay?
02:11:17.000So you need more money for training, more money for funding, more money for salary, and make them feel like a respected, appreciated part of the community, and then have oversight over them.
02:11:26.000Make sure that the people that have oversight over them are good people.
02:13:54.000It's just a weird bag of greedy miscreants who are all getting various checks from various sometimes competitive industries and making laws based on that.
02:17:23.000I could just like leave and go anywhere, right?
02:17:26.000Yeah, man that formed you yeah that forms you and if you grow up on private jets and if you grow up always knowing that you're gonna have money always knowing that you're gonna be fine always knowing that You're gonna be a part of an empire at one point that has wealth the likes of which no one will ever be able to explain and Where your children will be billionaires.
02:17:52.000You can divide it evenly amongst their children.
02:18:09.000There's like extra gears that you have that you're born with when you live in poverty.
02:18:15.000I think that's what you look at all the great athletes almost all of them Unless they grew up in households that were like very strong households where the father really encouraged athletics and was like really a Great coach and the kid like grew up competing and really enjoyed it.
02:18:29.000That's possible too, but in fighting in particular Boy, it's a lot of people from fucking dire poverty.
02:18:36.000It's a lot of people but don't you think it's possible as a parent because like I mean My kids aren't scraping by, and I know your kids aren't.
02:18:47.000Isn't it possible as a parent, if you're lucky enough to not have to worry about that shit our parents worried about, to still create a childhood and a life that isn't imbalanced And has within it the possibility for failure and having to figure out how to do shit.
02:19:13.000Like in life presenting you with challenges that you could have never predicted, you didn't ask for, and they're right in front of you and you have to deal with them.
02:19:21.000People that go through that sort of a life, I think they have way more defenses up, way more awareness of deception, way more awareness of people's ulterior motives and people who are creepy, people who aren't being genuine.
02:19:39.000And you and I have both encountered plenty of people like that.
02:19:54.000They're not going to have been in dangerous situations where they had to, like, realize the consequences of not recognizing these kind of people early.
02:21:19.000You have to confront the learning curve.
02:21:21.000Yeah, so you got to learn how to get better at stuff and then you got to be excited about that feeling that you get when you get better at stuff.
02:22:45.000Like, if you want to do fascism, that's how you do it.
02:22:47.000Like, you don't do fascism by saying, like, hey, I'm going to control the shit out of you motherfuckers.
02:22:51.000You do it by saying, hey, you better watch out, because this thing is coming, and I'm the only one who can keep you from that thing coming.
02:23:00.000Bro, when they lock people out of their bank accounts for protesting, when they have the Freedom Convoy, they lock people out of their bank accounts.
02:24:02.000But what it is is spooky because that guy is not being honest about what he did during COVID. He's saying they never forced anybody to get vaccinated.
02:24:52.000I remember that because somebody I knew was a DJ up there.
02:24:56.000The bill makes changes to Canada's Broadcasting Act.
02:24:59.000The legislation requires streaming services such as Netflix and Spotify.
02:25:02.000It also requires platforms to promote Canadian context.
02:25:06.000Specifically, the bill says online undertakings shall clearly promote and recommend Canadian programming in both official languages as well as Indigenous languages.
02:25:15.000The changes give the Canadian Radio, Television and Telecommunications Commission Canada's broadcast regulator broad powers over digital media companies, including the ability to impose financial penalties for violations of the Act.
02:25:30.000The government says that legislation is necessary to impose the same regulations and requirements in place for traditional broadcasters on online media platforms.
02:25:40.000Right now, broadcasters are required to spend at least 30% of their revenue on supporting Canadian content.
02:25:47.000Online streaming has changed how we create, discover, and consume our culture, and it's time we updated our system to reflect that, a government news release on the bill says.
02:26:00.000Because them saying, are we or are we not moving to a global...
02:26:07.000Entertainment world for the English language.
02:26:09.000Because it seems like it's kind of moving in that direction, right?
02:26:12.000I mean, some of the best podcasts in the world, like Trigonometry, comes out of the UK. There's a lot of stuff out of America that's very popular over there.
02:27:04.000The bill's journey through Parliament has been difficult.
02:27:07.000Rodriguez tabled the legislation in the House of Commons in February 2022. Nearly a year later, the Senate sent C-11 back to the House Commons with amendments.
02:27:18.000The House accepted most of the amendments but rejected others.
02:27:40.000It's not intended, but it could be used in that way.
02:27:43.000They're just going to have more power to tell you what to do.
02:27:45.000And if you are a Canadian person who is broadcasting a podcast out of Vancouver, And you have a narrative that doesn't fit with what Trudeau wants you to say.
02:28:14.000If you subscribe to whatever the particular modality of your government is in regards to censorship, controlling art, controlling public dialogue, right?
02:28:35.000Trudeau's online censorship law, Bill C-11, passes Parliament.
02:28:42.000But dude, the problem is The problem is, you are thinking your government is going to stay controlled by the people whose ethics you believe in, but you look historically at the world, coups happen.
02:28:59.000Secret coups happen, and then all of a sudden, all these rights you gave away, you've given them to the people who you were fighting against.
02:35:21.000Yeah, and who is in control of saying, this is Canadian content, this is not, what if Americans go to Canada, shoot something, is that Canadian content?
02:35:29.000How about they just do 30% of their programming is Tom Green?
02:40:27.000Just do no harm, don't fuck people over, and you should all be, like, the same ethical and moral considerations should be applied to all civilizations.
02:40:35.000But the idea that these people can't just, like, drop out and fucking sell grilled cheese sandwiches at a Grateful Dead concert, like, says who?
02:40:47.000Yeah, they should be able to do whatever they want.
02:40:48.000And I think one of the things that I feel has come out of the internet is there's more of an understanding Of the idea that there's not just one way to live your life.
02:40:59.000This idea of everyone has to get up at the same time and drive to some place to sit in a room with a fucking computer in front of them, entering information or dealing with whatever the fuck they're doing.
02:41:30.000But if you want to, I feel like you should be able to if you're informed, if you really know what you're getting into, if you really understand it.
02:41:39.000What we're scared of is young people getting sucked into cults.
02:41:43.000Because that's a great way to get control over people.
02:41:46.000You tell them all to come with you, and you all do acid in the field, and then you don't do acid, and you tell these people that you're a god, and you fucking freak them out, and that's the fucking guy that owned the One World Theater.
02:42:46.000But I think that it's really, really important that we understand that this structure, the way this is all set up, is all set up by people that didn't have happy lives.
02:43:04.000So many of them look so unhealthy and so sad and so just confused as to what this is all about and very few of them have had psychedelic experiences.
02:43:29.000I think that's a pretty big assumption.
02:43:30.000I think that assumption, which we've all had, who've benefited from psychedelics, that you get fucking Lindsey Graham a nice whopping 500 microgram dose of LSD, he's going to come out the other side of that a new Lindsey Graham.
02:44:59.000In this book, they're sort of talking about what happens when you die before your next life.
02:45:06.000Now, obviously, you're going to have to subscribe to the model of reincarnation for this, but it's really interesting, which is what you're talking about, these proclivities.
02:45:59.000So if you have not gotten past your spontaneous decisions that cause lack of harmony in your life, then that will be the momentum that carries you into your next birth, which is why in Buddhism you'll hear shit like meditation is preparing for death or practice of death.
02:46:20.000It's like you're trying to make it so that when you die, And if you die, nothing happens and you're dead forever, congratulations.
02:46:30.000But if you die and you keep going and that model is correct, then you don't want to be reactive in between lives because you will freak out, number one, that you're dead and you still have consciousness.
02:46:43.000That's very disturbing for some people who thought that you'd die forever.
02:46:48.000Now you're like, oh fuck, I'm still here.
02:46:50.000And then you don't like not having a body anymore.
02:46:54.000In the same way, so you fucking just, you see, you just dive into the next life as quick as you can, instead of like having a little bit of like consideration in between, you know, and not just that, you're essentially your projections, the proclivities, they become holograms basically.
02:47:12.000So in that sense, do you believe in old souls?
02:47:18.000I believe that we have one, right now, where am I right now is, I think that consciousness or awareness, awareness, or what's called non-conditioned awareness, before the overlay, I think we all share that consciousness.
02:47:33.000And we're like little ripples in that consciousness.
02:47:51.000But I guess there could be the potential that certain people's addiction to being within the emptiness and having a body and a self and an identity probably keeps them coming back here over and over and over again.
02:48:11.000Again, this is a cosmology that is unquantifiable and I don't think it matters necessarily if it's real or not, at least for me.
02:48:20.000I use it as a tool to help give me the motivation to be less of an asshole.
02:48:27.000I mean, and also when you're dying and you know, whatever the next life may be for you or nothing, who gives a fuck?
02:48:33.000It's like you reincarnate in a lifetime.
02:48:36.000Like you have many incarnations in any given human lifetime.
02:48:39.000You will go through so many different phases and the more you gain control of your ability to not react, the more you will inform what you're growing into.
02:48:49.000The more it is a mindful or intentional Personal evolution versus a kind of chaotic like mutation based on just you instantly doing everything your brain tells you to do exactly in the moment.
02:49:54.000If you could translate, first of all, if you could go back to the oldest version they have, which I think the oldest version is the Dead Sea Scrolls.
02:50:04.000That's the oldest version of the stories that wound up in the Bible.
02:51:10.000That book is fascinating because that guy studied the Dead Sea Scrolls for 14 years and he was an ordained minister who became agnostic when he started studying theology.
02:51:21.000He was like, hmm, hold on, let me reserve judgment.
02:51:24.000And he was a straight scholar and it was his determination after all these years of studying the Dead Sea Scrolls that the entire Christian religion was a misunderstanding.
02:51:35.000That what we think of it as today, what it really was, was about the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms and fertility rituals.
02:51:43.000And that it was all baked into the stories.
02:51:46.000And that the stories, like even like the apple, like the forbidden apple, I mean, they're talking about the Amanita muscaria mushroom that looked like an apple.
02:52:34.000Imagine if you had access to God and you had a marauding, intrusive army that's about to come into it, but you want to document all this stuff.
02:52:43.000You have to kind of fucking document it in parables.
02:52:48.000Draw fish in the sand to let people know you're a Christian, which is so cool.
02:52:54.000The underground Christianity is so cool.
02:52:57.000And the stories of the Christian saints getting fucking butchered and ignited and then crying, not because they're being immolated, but for the people immolating them.
02:54:03.000Which is what I would say, if you want to find like what the Demiurge is, it is the hypnotic zeitgeist that is being presented to us by hierarchical power structures that presents a universe of suffering and sorrow and hell with no solution ever offered.
02:57:03.000And everybody's so scared of him, no one's like, dude, relax.
02:57:07.000Why are you fucking rocking like that?
02:57:08.000Like, take some CBD. Someone on a podcast had the story, it might have been Dan Carlin, but there was a story about when Hitler, maybe it wasn't, I'm not sure, Hitler went to visit Mussolini and apparently he had just got back from a campaign and he was exhausted and so they shot him up with testosterone and they shot him up with cocaine and Mussolini was gonna try to get out of the war and Hitler just fucking cornered Mussolini and just talked at him for like six hours.
02:58:16.000Goes to visit him with his, like, you know, I don't know, chariot, you know, the imperial regalia, because he wants to co-opt the philosopher.
02:58:27.000That's what the state wants to do, is to create a connection between the philosopher and the state.
02:58:32.000So he goes there, and he says to him, you know, I'll give you anything you want.
03:00:08.000It's not worth it even for the people that are perpetuating it because you're not going to live forever.
03:00:11.000You're going to live and you're going to die and everybody's on the same fucking path.
03:00:15.000We gotta make it better for everybody.
03:00:17.000And the only way to make it better for everybody, the only way to make it better for everybody is you gotta remove money and influence from any of these decisions.
03:00:26.000You can't let people make money because you've made decisions to kill folks.
03:00:32.000You can't let people make money because you've made decisions to imprison people.
03:01:10.000Don't let anybody trick you into thinking that they're God.
03:01:15.000Don't let anybody trick you into thinking that they are some...
03:01:19.000Whatever the fuck it is, don't let a middleman...
03:01:24.000Tell you that he's got a direct line to the divine that you don't have.
03:01:28.000Because whatever that may be, whether it's literally God, whether it's some access to some world of scientific information that you're too dumb to understand, whatever it may be, don't fall prey.
03:01:39.000Don't succumb to that level of manipulation.
03:01:42.000And the best way to do that is to look for the truth.
03:02:05.000They could still work, but it doesn't work as well.
03:02:08.000It's like if someone's giving you waku steak and then they're like, hey, do you want to go eat delicious steak with me here or should we just go to Sizzler?
03:03:04.000But you got to anchor yourself in something other than the world or the world will drag your ass all over the place.
03:03:10.000Well, the world that we live in is the world of the animal.
03:03:13.000We are animals, and we're so connected to this biological existence that has fueled our evolution.
03:03:20.000That's what we were a long time ago, and we still have that DNA, that DNA of the survival animal that is being threatened, that's encroached upon by the competition of survival of the fittest amongst the breed.
03:03:35.000I mean, you watch it in that Chimp Empire show.
03:04:42.000Because what's really nuts is you're spending, at least I'm basing this on scanning Twitter, apparently all of your day angry at the government or angry at people who don't like the government and the whole time that that's happening your life is just rotting away rotting and melting away your chance to like be in the world and experience actual reality where the daddy is
03:05:12.000the seasons and the daddy is gravity and the daddy you space Space!
03:05:20.000And so instead of connecting to sky mind, as it's called sometimes, you're connecting to this one pixel in a tiny little fragmentary part of human history.
03:05:35.000And you are generating powerful emotions from the machinations of whoever this person may be.
03:05:43.000It's very sad just because you're missing out.
03:06:16.000Because even if it's all bullshit and there's just something built into the DNA of humanity that when we invoke a deity it makes our lives better...
03:06:27.000Even if it's some materialist explanation behind why the majority of people on the planet believe in prayer and will claim that it has made their life better, great!
03:06:37.000You've figured out some, like, hack for your biology, you know?
03:06:57.000It's not like you have to believe it forever either.
03:07:00.000But also, if it's a God beyond your comprehension, beyond the comprehension of the mere mortal brain, to just even envision what that means, Wouldn't it mean something that created the universe?
03:07:25.000And you might say, well, it doesn't exist because there's not really a man in the clouds and there's not a guy with a beard, some patriarchal asshole who runs the world and doesn't like gays.
03:10:08.000Maybe the idea that we aren't part of God, that if God is the totality of all things and the sum total of all lives that have ever lived outside and inside of time, you're part of God.
03:11:43.000I'll tell you that, it'll shake everything off and start again every fucking billion years if it wants to.
03:11:49.000I think it's very scary at first if you really acknowledge the reality of how finite you are and how the planet that you're on Is uncontrollable.
03:13:19.000We're all on some weird, infinite journey.
03:13:22.000And I think some people have gotten a little confused into thinking that they don't understand that their attempt to, like, quote, save the planet, which, again, please do, is actually an attempt to keep themselves from dying.
03:14:20.000I just don't see how a strategy that has built into it condescending aggression is going to create the massive changes that you are prescribing.
03:15:55.000And the energy that you are invoking every day is hot, angry, fiery energy.
03:16:02.000It affects everyone around you, and then it affects them as they affect other people.
03:16:06.000So since you're part of the planet, aside from doing all the things that make sense regarding carbon emissions or whatever it is that you think is going to fix things, you have to do something a lot harder than recycling.
03:16:18.000You have to calm down and get real peaceful because I think that's what you want in the world.
03:16:26.000That's what everybody wants in the world.
03:16:27.000But it's just hard when you don't have it in yourself.
03:16:29.000So if you don't have it in yourself, you have to take control of your own biology and your own mind and help yourself first.
03:16:35.000Once you help yourself and you put that energy out there, you could affect the people around you.
03:16:41.000They can affect the people around them.
03:16:43.000That's why some neighborhoods are better than, you know, not just because of economics, but also because some neighborhoods are like filled with nicer people.
03:17:03.000And his fucking house caught on fire and my friend Bud actually had his house fire put out because he was friends with the firemen and he stayed in while they evacuated.
03:17:14.000I was so happy that they saved this guy's house.
03:17:55.000It's like intentionally cutting you off from your fucking neighbors, presupposing that whatever their particular political ideologies are, they're brutes compared to you.
03:18:08.000You are creating the problem you're trying to fix.
03:18:12.000Just via the mechanism you're using to fix the world is condescending, fucking patronizing signs designed to infuriate your fucking neighbors.
03:18:22.000That is a weird one when you see those signs on people's lawns.
03:20:08.000People used to have friends that were Republicans and friends that were Democrats and everybody was okay together.
03:20:12.000Now everybody's like isolated in a tribe after Trump.
03:20:15.000Trump, because he's so bombastic and he's got so much ego and it's so crazy, like...
03:20:20.000I think even if he's good to get us away from the swamp, he's bad for the way people interact with each other because they hated him so much.
03:20:28.000There's never been a guy that, like, people openly hated like that, that was running for president.
03:20:33.000I mean, name one that was president that people openly hated.
03:20:36.000Because even W, after 9-11, people were on his side.
03:21:29.000If we, regardless of whatever the fucking news is telling us, why we should hate this person and why we should like that person, if we ignore all that shit, and we all just start finding ways to connect with each other, at the very least, just stop judging people as harshly as you are, I think the government will follow.
03:21:46.000I think, like, we'll wag the dog, so to speak.
03:21:49.000That the government is like a reflection of us, and that the more we, like, just...
03:22:17.000And also the people that get into the government, people that grow up with this message, instead of being indoctrinated into that system, they come in there with like...
03:22:26.000An eye for change, like a mind for change.
03:23:16.000Because if there is anything that's gonna wake people the fuck up to how weird this whole thing is, is if all these people that are coming forward All these people that are talking about us having retrieved alien crafts,
03:23:33.000the Varginia incident in Brazil that they documented in that film, A Moment of Contact, which is an amazing James Fox movie.
03:23:44.000It seems like there was a crashed UFO. It seems like there was a crashed UFO in Varginia, Brazil in 1996. And you go into the town, they have a replica of it that's at the beginning of the town.
03:23:56.000It's like when you're entering into the town, they have a fucking UFO. Everyone who was alive back then has a story of seeing these things flying through the air.
03:24:04.000The people that made contact with these creatures, one of them died of a horrible bacterial infection.
03:24:11.000There's record of them transporting it to three different hospitals.
03:24:30.000Why'd they give away their UFO? Because they probably had to.
03:24:35.000Look, governments give countries aid, they do this, they do that, we work this, we'll protect you from that, we'll do this to help you from that.
03:24:44.000There's a lot of weird shit going on, and if there's one country that really does have both possession of crashed UFOs and has a whole division, a secret division, where they find crashed UFOs and retrieve them,
03:25:01.000and this is what this guy David Grush is saying.
03:25:03.000He's saying they do have that, and they are in possession of that, and that they're lying to Congress.
03:25:07.000They're not showing Congress this, and they're not showing the American people this.
03:25:11.000But if they did, if we knew, how much of, I mean, that's the Ronald Reagan speech to the United Nations.
03:26:01.000The guy from Harvard, John Mack, who did all those hypnotic regression sessions with people that claimed to have been abducted, and they were eerily similar.
03:26:13.000But apparently people have questioned his methodology and people have questioned the leading nature of whether or not he led people into these thoughts by questioning and asking them, what have you experienced?
03:26:27.000Have you been encountering UFOs as an alien?
03:28:50.000And then when they're in this environment where he's talking to them one-on-one, they're kind of all remembering what they talked about in that room.
03:30:19.000What was the effect on you when you felt it wanted to have you go with it?
03:30:24.000I just unmoved to when I started crying.
03:30:27.000They came running up here in such a panic.
03:30:30.000And I mean, even if we had staged it, they could not have run all together like that.
03:30:34.000Even if we practiced it, I don't know how many times.
03:30:37.000They came up here like a living snake.
03:30:40.000We were in a staff meeting and we just heard them screaming, screaming, and a child can't make that up.
03:30:48.000I was very skeptical in the beginning as well.
03:30:51.000I believed that they'd seen something, but I wasn't prepared to accept that it was anything supernatural, anything like that.
03:30:58.000So if we know now that they actually do visit, and that there actually has been some sort of contact, and when that guy was describing, you have physical bodies He's saying if you have a crashed vehicle, sometimes you have a dead pilot.
03:31:22.000So imagine you're in Zimbabwe and you're a kid just hanging out at school and a fucking actual UFO lands and aliens get out and you think they're thinking about taking you?
03:33:03.000There was these ancient birds that lived, oh fuck, I don't know how long ago, man, but they were fucking enormous.
03:33:12.000Look, there's some images of like what one looked like next yeah the up top where it looked like no no no up top up top That's the that's that's how big they were so you could have ridden one of these Oh, yeah fucking for sure if it didn't eat your dick immediately it would swallow you whole you ever see like a Fucking pelican swallow a seagull whole dude.
03:33:31.000That would be what it would be doing to a human gulp you down That was a real animal, dude.
03:33:36.000That is how I would dress if I rode one.
03:33:39.000Imagine if you could fucking get one of those things to follow your lead.
03:33:42.000Look, he's got a bite, a thing in its mouth, a bridle.
03:33:45.000But the reality was, I think they were way before people.