The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2023 - Brian Keating

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Thank you very much for coming, man.

00:00:13.000 And thank you for bringing all this cool stuff.

00:00:15.000 What is this old-timey telescope?

00:00:17.000 Is that one of the ones the sailors used to use?

00:00:20.000 That's my spyglass.

00:00:21.000 This is exactly the spyglass.

00:00:23.000 This thing is actually one of the most important inventions ever made.

00:00:28.000 And it really is the reason I'm probably sitting here with you.

00:00:32.000 It's the actual tool.

00:00:35.000 Not this one, but the telescope is really the machine that changed the world the most.

00:00:41.000 What's so cool about it, it acted like a lever that moved the Earth from being the center of the universe back in Galileo's time.

00:00:50.000 What year did they invent it?

00:00:51.000 The telescope was invented around the early 1600s.

00:00:54.000 And there's a popular misconception that Galileo invented it, but he didn't.

00:00:57.000 He actually perfected it.

00:00:59.000 So he took it from, like, you know, zero to one, basically.

00:01:02.000 He took this spyglass, which was really never...

00:01:06.000 It's amazing.

00:01:06.000 People are using eyeglasses.

00:01:09.000 For many years, and nobody ever thought to go take one lens, take another lens, and go like this.

00:01:15.000 No one had ever done that.

00:01:17.000 There was a guy, Ben Leeuwenhoek, and this guy Hans Lippershey, they had been making glass, and they were experts at making glass.

00:01:25.000 I think we're good to go.

00:01:44.000 Because with a telescope, you could see a ship in the Venetian Lagoon a day or two out before it would come on shore and you could see it from the ground.

00:01:54.000 So the distance back then was stealth technology.

00:01:57.000 This took away the stealth.

00:01:59.000 It would be like turning off the B2's, you know, ability to have stealth.

00:02:02.000 So he improved it so much, it was just inarguable this would change the world.

00:02:06.000 So when was the eyeglass invented?

00:02:09.000 Eyeglass was invented, you know, it's kind of cool.

00:02:12.000 The eyeglass was invented in probably the late 1500s, these lenses. 0.96

00:02:17.000 Glass used to be total crap. 0.96

00:02:19.000 It would be like looking through a piece of ice today. 0.95

00:02:21.000 These lenses are super clear and super clean, you know, modern lenses.

00:02:24.000 This isn't a great telescope, but it's illustrative, and we can use it to do things.

00:02:29.000 But what was so interesting to me, it's just like a quirk of history, is when these lenses were invented, before then, you didn't...

00:02:37.000 I don't know what your vision is, but mine's about 2020. It's getting worse as I get older, obviously.

00:02:42.000 But before then, there were no standards for how good a person's eyesight was.

00:02:46.000 Until they had, say, the Gutenberg Bible was published.

00:02:49.000 So in the 1400s and 1500s, the first movable fixed type, we had a calibrated standard where you knew how big the type font was.

00:02:57.000 And you could say, well, Joe can only see something at five feet away that Brian can see at 10 feet away or something like that.

00:03:03.000 So then they realized, hey, I can't see what Brian can see or I can't see what Joe can see.

00:03:08.000 I need some kind of augmentation.

00:03:10.000 And they would put lenses on.

00:03:12.000 So that was in the original direction from directly from the Gutenberg Bible to glasses.

00:03:18.000 And then what's so funny is the glasses then led to making a telescope.

00:03:22.000 And then the telescope led to the Earth being moved away from being the center of the universe, which the Gutenberg Bible, you know, in some connotations, suggested that we were.

00:03:32.000 So there's a direct line from the Gutenberg Bible to the glasses to the telescope to then now religion is not so centralized in the age of scientific reason.

00:03:39.000 Wow.

00:03:40.000 So when they first started using telescopes, what kind of power are we talking about?

00:03:45.000 Like when Galileo improved upon it, you said it was like zero to one.

00:03:48.000 Yeah.

00:03:48.000 Like how many levels of magnification?

00:03:51.000 So a good telescope that you can get, I was joking, I'm not a doctor, but I'm not a real doctor.

00:03:56.000 But the only prescription Dr. Keating makes is that you should buy your kid a telescope.

00:04:01.000 And actually, the reason I said this is the reason I'm probably sitting here with you is because I became a scientist thanks to getting a telescope at about age 12. And you can actually see something.

00:04:09.000 I know you've been to, like, the Keck Observatories, and you've seen the night sky from there, and that is wonderful.

00:04:15.000 But every single thing that Galileo saw with his 20-power telescope, which is not that much.

00:04:20.000 Not much at all.

00:04:21.000 You can get one of those, you know, on my website.

00:04:23.000 No, I'm just kidding.

00:04:24.000 But that was a big improvement.

00:04:26.000 That was a huge improvement.

00:04:27.000 Because now you can see there were craters on the moon.

00:04:29.000 Now you can see there were mountains on the moon.

00:04:32.000 The moon wasn't this perfect crystalline sphere that the Bible and the ancients had talked about.

00:04:37.000 It had flaws, imperfections.

00:04:38.000 It looked like it had oceans.

00:04:39.000 That's why they're called mare, mare, seas, the sea of tranquility.

00:04:42.000 You know what really bummed me out?

00:04:44.000 What was that?

00:04:44.000 When Samsung, when they got exposed for their digital zoom for the moon, that bummed me out.

00:04:50.000 I thought I was taking a real picture of the moon.

00:04:52.000 That's right.

00:04:52.000 I was like, this is amazing.

00:04:53.000 There's the flag.

00:04:54.000 Look what my phone can do.

00:04:55.000 There's the flag.

00:04:56.000 It looks so clear.

00:04:57.000 Like, how do they do that?

00:04:58.000 And then someone took a photo of a blurry photo of a moon on a screen.

00:05:05.000 And it did it to that.

00:05:06.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:05:07.000 So it cleared up the image.

00:05:09.000 It ruined the illusion.

00:05:11.000 They should not do that.

00:05:12.000 No, they should not do that.

00:05:14.000 So, yeah, when Galileo, like, boosted the magnification from just a few times, that was sufficient.

00:05:19.000 With just a two-power thing, like a spyglass, like a toy thing, you really can't see craters on the moon.

00:05:24.000 You can't see that there's other, like, mountains and so forth.

00:05:26.000 But Galileo really, because of the telescope...

00:05:30.000 Invented the scientific method, you know, of hypothesization, of observation, collecting data, refining things.

00:05:38.000 And then a lot of people forget the scientific method is predicated a lot of times on serendipity, like just holy crap, something happens.

00:05:44.000 He didn't expect this email.

00:05:46.000 And he wasn't saying, my hypothesis is that it formed from the same planetary system as the Earth.

00:05:50.000 He just saw it. 0.98

00:05:51.000 Holy crap. 0.88

00:05:52.000 And what was the very best telescope that he created as he made them better? 0.95

00:05:58.000 It only went up to about 20 times because the ability to grind glass was always the limiting factor.

00:06:04.000 He understood the mathematics of it, which was also part like what's called the Lenz equation.

00:06:09.000 How does that work?

00:06:10.000 How does light get refracted and focused and in so doing bend and magnify light?

00:06:15.000 And so he understood it mathematically and could prove it.

00:06:17.000 But he also did something really cool which people don't appreciate.

00:06:20.000 The lens in this telescope, I don't know, should I show it?

00:06:25.000 The lens in the telescope is actually bigger than this brass piece that surrounds it, okay?

00:06:30.000 And that owes to Galileo's activity.

00:06:33.000 So what Galileo realized is sometimes you don't want to use everything that you have.

00:06:38.000 Sometimes you want to do what's called stopping down.

00:06:40.000 So you have for aperture stops in photography.

00:06:42.000 So when you stop down something, it does something really important.

00:06:46.000 It reduces what are called systematic effects, aberrations, unwanted effects.

00:06:52.000 So instead of maximizing, say, oh, I got the biggest telescope, which is, well, now astronomers fight, but my telescope's bigger than yours.

00:06:59.000 He said, no, no, no, you want to stop it down, and that will actually improve the quality.

00:07:03.000 And you can actually see this with your own fingers.

00:07:05.000 So take your fingers out, Joe.

00:07:07.000 Look at some light source.

00:07:08.000 Look at these stars above us.

00:07:09.000 Make a tiny little triangle with your fingers, with your two fingers and your thumb.

00:07:14.000 And then go around, like, one of the stars up there, and you can actually see it.

00:07:18.000 Pinch it down to almost a point.

00:07:20.000 And you can almost see that it will magnify a tiny, tiny bit.

00:07:25.000 Do you get that effect?

00:07:26.000 It's very subtle.

00:07:28.000 But you're actually reducing some of the rays outside of your peripheral vision, essentially, that would otherwise come in if you have any cataracts or anything like that.

00:07:37.000 So what Galileo said is, no, don't use everything you have.

00:07:40.000 Actually stop it down, make it smaller, make it seem less efficient, but actually improve the quality, not the quantity, tremendously.

00:07:48.000 And when did they first start getting them to the point where you get telescopes like the Keck Observatory?

00:07:55.000 Oh, yeah.

00:07:56.000 So the Keck Observatory and the modern telescopes that we use today are not this type of telescope.

00:08:02.000 This is called a refracting telescope.

00:08:04.000 It uses lenses.

00:08:05.000 The lenses change the speed of light inside of the medium, and that causes light waves at different angles to travel through different thicknesses and travel slower, and that causes them to converge or diverge as necessary.

00:08:17.000 Nowadays, so this telescope was invented by this guy Hans Lippershey and perfected by Galileo.

00:08:24.000 Isaac Newton came along almost 100 years later, actually he was born when Galileo died in 1642, and he invented not a refracting telescope, but a reflecting telescope of the type that the Keck telescopes you've seen are.

00:08:39.000 These are telescopes that use mirrors, like, to focus the light.

00:08:45.000 What?

00:08:52.000 What?

00:09:05.000 They don't know what a telescope is?

00:09:06.000 They were like, what is this?

00:09:08.000 Are you going to use it as a weapon?

00:09:10.000 But they can only be made 30 times the diameter of this telescope, of this little tiny thing.

00:09:15.000 Really?

00:09:15.000 The biggest refracting telescope.

00:09:17.000 So those ones that look like a garbage can in people's backyards.

00:09:21.000 Those are reflecting telescopes.

00:09:23.000 The biggest refracting telescope is in Yerkes Observatory outside of Chicago or Southern Wisconsin.

00:09:28.000 And it is only 39 inches across.

00:09:31.000 So what happens is, imagine you have a piece of glass.

00:09:34.000 Over time, the glass will start to...

00:09:37.000 Is that it right there?

00:09:37.000 That's it.

00:09:38.000 Perfect.

00:09:38.000 Oh, that's pretty good.

00:09:40.000 Powerful, Jamie.

00:09:40.000 I heard Jamie's good.

00:09:41.000 Wow.

00:09:41.000 That is amazing.

00:09:42.000 He's the best.

00:09:42.000 So that's here, Keith.

00:09:44.000 That's puny compared to what you've seen in the Keck Observatories, which are 10 meters across, 10 times that diameter.

00:09:51.000 Interesting.

00:09:51.000 And what kind of power does that one have?

00:09:53.000 So you can get a telescope that has arbitrary power.

00:09:57.000 The power is not the important thing.

00:09:59.000 What's important is how clear and high quality the image can be.

00:10:03.000 You can have like the digital zoom.

00:10:04.000 It could be when they zoom in on your phone, say, you know, if you zoom in, the image quality gets crappy.

00:10:10.000 But even though it says, oh, you've magnified it 300 times.

00:10:12.000 So you can magnify arbitrarily just by choosing the right ratio of the curvature of the lens and the distance between these two lenses.

00:10:19.000 But to get higher quality, that Yerkes Observatory lens started to sag, and it has other problems.

00:10:25.000 Light acts, no matter what, gets distorted when it goes through a medium.

00:10:30.000 It's actually getting distorted right now as it goes through the air.

00:10:34.000 And you've seen this effect.

00:10:35.000 Here's my second prop of the day.

00:10:37.000 This is a prism.

00:10:38.000 This is a prism made of just like ordinary glass, plexiglass, and that refracts light depending on its wavelength.

00:10:45.000 This is like the kind of stuff a hippie girl would keep on her desk, right? 0.99

00:10:49.000 That's right.

00:10:50.000 You can make it into a pendant for your wife.

00:10:53.000 So that is changing the color.

00:10:56.000 The speed of light is getting modified depending on its color as it goes through that medium.

00:11:01.000 The lesson is glass affects the color of light's propagation speed.

00:11:07.000 I think we're good to go.

00:11:33.000 I've actually done quite a lot of work with binoculars because I was trying to figure out what's the difference in binoculars for outdoor activities, hunting and stuff.

00:11:43.000 And there's such a difference when you get to the higher quality binoculars.

00:11:47.000 It's really fascinating because they both have the same, you know, they have different, you know, like it's 10x42.

00:11:54.000 So I guess 42 would be...

00:11:56.000 42 is usually the eyepiece relief.

00:11:59.000 It's basically related to the field of view.

00:12:02.000 And how much light it takes in.

00:12:03.000 Yeah, and the 10 is the magnification.

00:12:05.000 The superior ones, when you get to, like, Swarovski is probably the best.

00:12:10.000 Their glass is so clear.

00:12:12.000 Exactly.

00:12:13.000 Like, if you look through a 10X binocular that's fairly cheap and inexpensive, you look at it like, yeah, it looks good.

00:12:19.000 I can see it.

00:12:20.000 And then you put the Swarossi's on and you're like, oh my god!

00:12:23.000 It's like headphones, right?

00:12:23.000 You can get like a piece of, you know, the stock headphones from your iPhone.

00:12:26.000 And you can get really high quality ones.

00:12:28.000 And so these headphones do not distort, because they're premium headphones, they don't distort the different wavelengths of sound.

00:12:35.000 Just like the wavelengths of light or its colors, wavelengths of sound should not be distorted.

00:12:40.000 And it's hard to amplify a signal of higher frequency or a shorter wavelength.

00:12:44.000 So the net effect was they realized you could only build a telescope using glass that was that big.

00:12:50.000 Wow.

00:12:51.000 But a telescope using mirrors, right now in space, we've got, you know, the six-meter diameter Webb telescope, which is, you know, six times bigger than the Yerkes Observatory, and that's in space.

00:13:01.000 That's a million miles away from the Earth.

00:13:03.000 But that's built with reflecting technology.

00:13:05.000 So when you see a mirror, mirrors reflect colors independently.

00:13:09.000 It doesn't change the color.

00:13:10.000 You don't see, oh, I look different if I'm in a red light versus a blue light.

00:13:14.000 They have no chromatic aberration.

00:13:16.000 They also can be supported from behind.

00:13:19.000 With our Simons Observatory, which I'm working with some amazing scientists around the world.

00:13:24.000 This is a sticker for you.

00:13:25.000 So this is in Chile.

00:13:27.000 This is currently the world's highest operating astronomical observatory.

00:13:30.000 It's at 5,200 meters, 17,200 feet above sea level.

00:13:35.000 And the telescope that's pictured there is the 6-meter diameter, we call it the Large Aperture Telescope, that my friend Mark Devlin Is this the VLT one that I keep hearing about?

00:13:45.000 No, this is just called the Simons Observatory.

00:13:48.000 So when our mutual friend Eric Weinstein was on last time, he talked a lot about this man, James Simons, who organized and ran the math department at the State University of New York in Santa Barbara.

00:14:00.000 But he's one of the most successful hedge fund managers in the world.

00:14:04.000 So this is a precursor observatory.

00:14:06.000 This is led by my friends Suzanne Staggs and Mark Devlin at Princeton, Penn, not respectively, but the other way around.

00:14:17.000 And then the Simons Observatory on the left, if you go over just a tiny bit, Jamie, yeah, there it is.

00:14:21.000 So if you click on the Wikipedia there, there it is.

00:14:24.000 Those are two reflecting enormous 6-meter diameter mirrors.

00:14:28.000 What happens is light comes in from above, from the cosmos, Reflects off the one that's tilted at a 45 degree angle here.

00:14:36.000 Bounces up to the other one on the left.

00:14:39.000 Then that shoots across here.

00:14:41.000 Actually, let me try this.

00:14:43.000 I'm a Professor Joe, so this won't show up on the screen.

00:14:46.000 But then it goes across, and it goes into that white little chamber over there.

00:14:50.000 That white chamber, like, I could sit on your back and we would have plenty of room inside there.

00:14:55.000 That's over six and a half feet across.

00:14:58.000 This is also built by Mark Devlin and his group and detectors by my friend Suzanne Staggs at Princeton.

00:15:04.000 And this is going to be the world's most sensitive and the world's highest operating observatory when we start taking data with it next year.

00:15:11.000 But you see it's reflected.

00:15:12.000 It's supported from the bottom.

00:15:13.000 You could not do this with lenses.

00:15:15.000 And a project like this, this magnitude, how many years did it take to construct something like this?

00:15:20.000 With or without COVID is the question.

00:15:22.000 Oh, okay, yeah.

00:15:23.000 So we started in 2016. My friend David Spergel, who's now the president of the Simons Foundation, and is leading NASA's UAP task force.

00:15:32.000 So I hope we can talk about that at some point.

00:15:34.000 Oh, yeah.

00:15:36.000 So David's like one of the greatest mentors I've ever had.

00:15:39.000 He and I and others, Adrian Lee at Berkeley, we decided, oh, we want to build the world's most capable astronomical observatory, and I happened to be very close and connected to James Simons.

00:15:50.000 His original job was math professor at the State University of New York called Stony Brook.

00:15:56.000 And he hired my father, my late father, which maybe we'll talk about later.

00:16:01.000 And they were best friends for a long time.

00:16:03.000 And then Jim Simons went on to become one of the most successful hedge fund managers.

00:16:10.000 He quit being a math professor and said, I'm going to start trading futures and commodities back in the early 70s.

00:16:16.000 Nobody did this.

00:16:17.000 And he developed algorithms that, to this day, still return over 30% a year on investments.

00:16:23.000 So Jim is, I think, the 26 richest man in the world.

00:16:26.000 He's dedicated his fortune to two things.

00:16:29.000 One, fighting autism because it's extremely close to his heart.

00:16:33.000 And two, to solving basic physics problems in science and math and chemistry and computer science.

00:16:39.000 So he's not doing applied stuff.

00:16:41.000 He's not trying to make technology.

00:16:43.000 He's not trying to make a better iPhone or something like that.

00:16:46.000 He's dedicated purely to making advances in pure science with no application.

00:16:51.000 So this experiment was started, we pitched it to him, David Spergel and I and Mark Devlin and Suzanne Staggs and Adrian Leigh.

00:16:57.000 We pitched it to him in 2016. And we got funding for it around that time.

00:17:03.000 And since then, we've had COVID, we've had tremendous numbers of, you know, Strikes and things going on in Chile.

00:17:10.000 And don't forget, Chile is in the Southern Hemisphere.

00:17:13.000 So when we had our first wave of COVID, they got their first wave six months later because it was out of phase with our seasons.

00:17:18.000 It was a nightmare.

00:17:20.000 And you can't just say to my graduate student, hey, come back in two years when the pandemic, or come back when there's a vaccine, or do whatever you want.

00:17:27.000 We instead said, no, we kept it going.

00:17:29.000 And the Foundation kept paying us.

00:17:31.000 And we kept it going.

00:17:32.000 So now we just yesterday, my colleague Adrian Lee, They deployed the first receiver, along with Nikolitsky, who's a professor right up the street here at UT Austin.

00:17:40.000 They deployed this telescope camera, and we're about to start taking data for the first time in our project history.

00:17:46.000 Wow, that's very exciting.

00:17:47.000 It is.

00:17:48.000 It's insane.

00:17:49.000 And how much more capable is it?

00:17:51.000 Is it more capable, but is it also the position that it's in, in terms of the altitude that it's at?

00:17:57.000 It's a lot of those things.

00:17:58.000 So the altitude is 17,200 feet.

00:18:01.000 So when you're up there, you need oxygen.

00:18:03.000 When you were up at Mauna Kea, I've been there a few times, I get out of breath if I walk up a flight of stairs in Mauna Kea.

00:18:09.000 When I'm at the site in Chile, I get out of breath walking down a flight of stairs.

00:18:14.000 I'm not in the best shape.

00:18:15.000 17,200 feet.

00:18:19.000 It's like being on the surface of Mars.

00:18:21.000 You would love it.

00:18:23.000 First of all, the people there are incredible.

00:18:25.000 They've been doing astronomy since, you know, 1,000 years before our country was even founded.

00:18:29.000 There were people in the Inca societies, the ancient Incas.

00:18:32.000 They were studying their interpretation of the cosmos.

00:18:35.000 That flows through all to today where they have prioritized astronomy as central to Chile's GDP. Oh, wow.

00:18:42.000 It's such an amazing place to be.

00:18:44.000 That's incredible.

00:18:45.000 And so what we do there is at such a high altitude site, you're above half the oxygen content that we fill here near sea level in Austin.

00:18:53.000 Up there, you're wearing nasal cannulas.

00:18:56.000 You have to breathe pure oxygen almost all the time.

00:18:58.000 Wow.

00:18:58.000 And if you don't, you'll pass out and we won't let you up there.

00:19:02.000 Nobody could just hang around, not even like Wim Hof, the Iceman?

00:19:05.000 He probably could, yeah.

00:19:06.000 He'd have to sign a waiver before I'd let him up there.

00:19:09.000 I'd be happy to do that! 1.00

00:19:11.000 That fucking dude would be up there deep breathing on the moon. 1.00

00:19:14.000 It's got like insane ultraviolet exposure up there. 1.00

00:19:18.000 You can basically, when you're up there and you look straight up here, when you're at that altitude, it's like you're looking into space.

00:19:25.000 Because when you're above that altitude, there's not enough water in the atmosphere to really precipitate out.

00:19:31.000 Remember, you grew up in Boston.

00:19:33.000 Remember some days in the past, we used to get, I grew up in New York outside of Long Island.

00:19:38.000 Some days you'd get this thing on the news channel, on the radio.

00:19:41.000 You'd hear it.

00:19:41.000 You'd be so happy.

00:19:42.000 It's snowing today or whatever, right?

00:19:44.000 Oh, you got a snow day.

00:19:45.000 This is awesome, right?

00:19:46.000 But some days, they'd say, oh, unfortunately, whatever.

00:19:50.000 We were saying, it's too cold to snow.

00:19:52.000 You remember sometimes it would be like, it's just too cold to snow. 0.64

00:19:56.000 And you're like, what the hell?

00:19:57.000 Why is it too cold to snow?

00:19:58.000 So we wouldn't get a snow day.

00:19:59.000 Sometimes the air temperature can be so low that the water vapor can't crystallize, nucleate, and form snow.

00:20:06.000 And that's what happens there a lot of the time.

00:20:08.000 So it's so clear.

00:20:09.000 It's incredible.

00:20:10.000 It's the second most incredible place I've ever been.

00:20:13.000 I've never been able to recreate my experience the first time I went to the Keck Observatory.

00:20:18.000 But we just caught lightning in a bottle.

00:20:22.000 And I remember when we were driving up there, we had been staying on the Big Island.

00:20:26.000 And we stayed on the Big Island specifically because I wanted to go to the observatory.

00:20:29.000 I was like, I just want to see it.

00:20:31.000 I keep hearing that it's insane.

00:20:33.000 And as we were driving up the mountain, it was cloudy. 0.98

00:20:37.000 I was like, oh, this sucks.

00:20:38.000 We got a cloudy day. 0.94

00:20:40.000 Oh, well.

00:20:41.000 You know, we'll go up there anyway and we'll see what it's like and look at their telescopes and all that chance.

00:20:46.000 But then you drove through the clouds.

00:20:49.000 So it was so high up there that you passed through the clouds and then it was just crystal clear.

00:20:54.000 And I swear, it changed my life.

00:20:56.000 Like, just looking at it that way, I don't think...

00:20:59.000 I know...

00:21:00.000 Everyone knows that we're in space.

00:21:03.000 But you don't see it that way all the time because I just don't think it's possible unless you live in some very rural area.

00:21:11.000 You mentioned this.

00:21:12.000 You said it's a tragedy that we suffer from light pollution, so much so, you said, that we don't even know what we don't see.

00:21:18.000 Yeah, we have no understanding of what's above us and that the ancients used to see every single day.

00:21:25.000 That's what they saw every night.

00:21:27.000 So much so that this is a beautiful picture that Jamie's showing.

00:21:30.000 This is the ALMA. This stands for Atacama, which is the desert that we're in.

00:21:34.000 It's the driest desert on Earth.

00:21:35.000 It's the highest desert on Earth because it's, you know, 5,000 meters, 17,000 feet in the Andes Mountains.

00:21:41.000 And this picture is showing this band that's arcing overhead.

00:21:45.000 That's the Milky Way galaxy.

00:21:46.000 I'm a professional astronomer, Joe.

00:21:48.000 When I go down there, I can't recognize the constellations that I know and I've known since I was 12 years old because there's no contrast.

00:21:57.000 Like every star just is like blowing you away and it's just magnified so much by the clarity and the distance and the remove from light pollution.

00:22:05.000 It is a toxic...

00:22:07.000 You know, it is preventing our children from understanding what the ancients knew.

00:22:12.000 But the great thing about that shot, Jamie, if we could keep it up for just a second longer.

00:22:16.000 So you see on the left there are these two smudges there.

00:22:19.000 Those you can barely see from Hawaii.

00:22:21.000 I don't know if you saw them.

00:22:22.000 Those are called the large and small Magellanic clouds.

00:22:24.000 Those are satellite galaxies of the Milky Way galaxy.

00:22:29.000 We're in the Milky Way galaxy.

00:22:31.000 We're in this disk.

00:22:32.000 And what I brought here, this is a representation of the cosmic microwave background.

00:22:36.000 This is made by my friends Lyman Page and David Spergel and others on the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe.

00:22:43.000 This is God's view of the cosmos, if you will.

00:22:46.000 So this is what you'd see if you were sensitive to microwave vision instead of optical light.

00:22:52.000 So microwaves are longer than infrared light, they're longer wavelength, they're shorter than radio waves, and they're longer than infrared light, much longer than visible light.

00:23:00.000 This would be your microwave constellations.

00:23:03.000 In other words, if you could see, these are unchanging fixed patterns on the sky that are only visible to microwave instruments.

00:23:09.000 This satellite made this image.

00:23:11.000 Running across here, this orange band around it, is the Milky Way, but as seen in microwaves.

00:23:17.000 So you just saw it as seen in optical.

00:23:20.000 So the Milky Way emits at all frequencies.

00:23:22.000 You can't get rid of it because we're inside the galaxy.

00:23:25.000 So this, as I say, this is as if God is, like, looking down.

00:23:28.000 We're actually at the center of this ball here, and we're looking out of that galaxy, out towards the galaxy.

00:23:34.000 But we're on one of the arms of the spiral galaxy.

00:23:36.000 Yeah, there's one of the gloves, and there's a little telescope.

00:23:38.000 Something's horning into my racket there.

00:23:39.000 Little Planet Factory.

00:23:40.000 Watch yourself.

00:23:41.000 Watch yourself.

00:23:42.000 I got the little telescopes and the microwave beach ball.

00:23:46.000 So that's what the galaxy looks like.

00:23:48.000 And what is all that schmutz? 0.73

00:23:50.000 What is all that blue stuff like?

00:23:52.000 I don't see that when you're in Mauna Kea, right?

00:23:54.000 That is dust.

00:23:56.000 That's dust in the Milky Way galaxy.

00:23:58.000 Put that back up, please.

00:23:59.000 Yeah.

00:24:00.000 So, actually, if you go back, Jamie, to the Alma picture that you showed just a second ago, the Incas were a really fascinating culture, and astronomically speaking.

00:24:13.000 We look at the stars, like, I don't know how many constellations you can recognize.

00:24:19.000 But the Incas, they didn't use our constellations, obviously.

00:24:22.000 They didn't, like, say...

00:24:23.000 The Big Dipper.

00:24:24.000 Yeah, the Big Dipper.

00:24:25.000 But they instead focused on those dark blotches.

00:24:29.000 Those dark blotches are not regions representing the absence of stars.

00:24:35.000 Those dark blanches are obscured.

00:24:38.000 There are billions of stars there, but they're obscured by clouds of dust, basically like smoke.

00:24:44.000 Particles of carbon, of silicon, metals I'm going to show you in just a bit.

00:24:48.000 They pollute and they obscure and make opaque the stars behind them.

00:24:54.000 So the Incas could see this much more clearly.

00:24:57.000 We can't see these from where we are in the northern hemisphere.

00:24:59.000 But the Incas could see it. 0.98

00:25:01.000 So they made their constellations shapes that they saw in those dark, dusty globules.

00:25:08.000 So if you were born back then, let's see, you just had your birthday, right?

00:25:13.000 So you were born back then, August...

00:25:16.000 Eleven?

00:25:16.000 Eleven, yeah.

00:25:17.000 So you're born in August.

00:25:18.000 I forget, what's your sign?

00:25:20.000 Libra?

00:25:21.000 Leo.

00:25:21.000 Leo, okay.

00:25:22.000 So instead of being a Leo, they would represent you by what constellation, what dust blob there was, and they had names for it.

00:25:29.000 There was a toad, there was a llama.

00:25:32.000 My favorite one, Joe, there was a constellation called the Umbilical Cord of the Llama.

00:25:37.000 Whoa.

00:25:38.000 Can you imagine going to a bar to the mothership?

00:25:40.000 Hey, baby.

00:25:41.000 What's your song?

00:25:42.000 I'm an umbilicus of the llama. 0.98

00:25:44.000 It's just ridiculous, right? 0.95

00:25:46.000 But that's what they saw. 0.97

00:25:47.000 Wow.

00:25:48.000 And we can't see that today, not because of light pollution, but we can't see all the other things because of light pollution.

00:25:54.000 But yeah, those two little smudges on the left, those are galaxies or dwarf galaxies that are bound to the dark matter.

00:26:01.000 And the gravitational pull of the Milky Way, they're actually satellite galaxies.

00:26:06.000 They're separate from the Milky Way.

00:26:07.000 And how many stars are in those galaxies?

00:26:09.000 A couple billion.

00:26:11.000 We have 100 billion at least.

00:26:13.000 You know what's insane is the density of stars.

00:26:16.000 That was one of the things that was so overwhelming.

00:26:19.000 Because I always knew there was a lot of stars, but just the density that...

00:26:24.000 It's as much star as it is black when you look at the sky.

00:26:28.000 It's like you're seeing a different perspective, completely different perspective.

00:26:32.000 It felt like I was in the cockpit of a massive spaceship, like looking at it through glass.

00:26:38.000 And when you go up there, you probably weren't on oxygen because you were on a tour or something like that.

00:26:42.000 If you go up a little bit higher, so I'm a pilot.

00:26:45.000 I fly little planes around Southern California.

00:26:48.000 But if you go above the altitude that you were at, it's legally required that you wear oxygen.

00:26:52.000 Or you have an oxygen provider, a pressurized plane or whatever.

00:26:55.000 So you would wear a cannula if you were in like a little Cessna or something like that.

00:26:58.000 And they can get up to that altitude easily.

00:27:01.000 But if you don't have oxygen on, And you go up there.

00:27:05.000 Next time you go up there, you look up.

00:27:07.000 You close your eyes for a second.

00:27:09.000 You hold your breath.

00:27:11.000 I'm not suggesting this.

00:27:13.000 It's not me telling you to do this.

00:27:15.000 But if you do it, you will see apparitions of the stars.

00:27:19.000 It will make you feel like you're tripping.

00:27:22.000 So I'm told.

00:27:23.000 I've never tripped.

00:27:24.000 So because you're holding your breath?

00:27:26.000 Because you're oxygen deprived, the intensity of starlight and the contrast, as you just said, between the blackness and the lightness and the points of light, it will be essentially like you're basically out of your senses.

00:27:39.000 You won't be able to process it.

00:27:41.000 I wonder if we're going to get to a point with technology that we figure out how to use some sort of diffuse lighting everywhere where we minimize light pollution, at least minimize it to the point where you do see stars.

00:27:54.000 I think it really is a bad thing for us.

00:27:57.000 I think it's akin to people not getting sunlight in the winter.

00:28:01.000 They don't do well because they don't get vitamin D. I think there's something psychological.

00:28:07.000 There's a medicine to the awe-inspiring cosmos.

00:28:11.000 It's so funny you say that.

00:28:13.000 I haven't met Andrew Huberman.

00:28:15.000 He used to be a professor at UC San Diego, where I am now.

00:28:18.000 He's the best.

00:28:18.000 Love that guy.

00:28:19.000 He's such an amazing contributor.

00:28:22.000 His whole shtick is get out in the morning, see the morning sunlight.

00:28:26.000 What I want to talk to him about – because he's an expert in the eye and the physiology of the eye as well as all the other stuff that he does for his laboratory, right?

00:28:34.000 But I want to ask him about astronomical things.

00:28:36.000 Like we see that night sky.

00:28:39.000 What will it mean to our physiology and to our psychology to not – to have that robbed from a whole – we're doing an experiment.

00:28:47.000 Nobody knows what will happen as you just said.

00:28:49.000 What will happen?

00:28:50.000 Will it be like sitting is the new smoking or sitting is the new crack?

00:28:54.000 I don't know what it is.

00:28:55.000 But that's the point.

00:28:57.000 What will it mean?

00:28:58.000 There's something deeply into the human mind.

00:29:00.000 The reasons that constellations have names is because there was no Netflix.

00:29:05.000 There was no Netflix 2,000 years ago.

00:29:06.000 So people identified things and they could navigate.

00:29:09.000 I can sort of navigate.

00:29:11.000 I know the constellation is incredible, which doesn't sound so big a deal as an astronomer.

00:29:16.000 But most astronomers don't really care.

00:29:18.000 They don't know the constellations.

00:29:19.000 Really?

00:29:20.000 One of the jokes is like, don't ask me what constellation that is.

00:29:22.000 I'm an astronomer. 0.99

00:29:23.000 I always give them crap. 0.99

00:29:25.000 I'm always like, yeah, if you were a geography professor, I'd say, where's Mexico? 0.99

00:29:28.000 He'd say, don't ask me. 0.97

00:29:29.000 It's kind of ridiculous.

00:29:31.000 But not having that experience, and just like you and I remember what it was like to have it at some level, or we can go and travel too.

00:29:37.000 People can't in L.A., but they can do something, which is quite phenomenal, with the same telescope.

00:29:43.000 That you can get an actual version of this.

00:29:45.000 You can connect it to your smartphone.

00:29:46.000 You can have a tripod.

00:29:47.000 It's $50.

00:29:48.000 I made a video once.

00:29:50.000 I said, this is the best Christmas gift you could possibly get a kid.

00:29:54.000 Because with it, you can see the same craters on the moon that Galileo saw.

00:29:59.000 Light pollution does not obscure I'm not advocating for light pollution, but I'm just saying right here in the middle of Austin or in the middle of San Diego, I can see the exact same things that caused Galileo to realize that the sun is the center of the solar system using scientific reasoning and evidence based on observation.

00:30:21.000 How good are the telescopes?

00:30:22.000 Like, say, if you wanted to look at Jupiter, how much can you see?

00:30:25.000 You can see a lot.

00:30:26.000 What you can see...

00:30:27.000 See the shape?

00:30:27.000 You can see the shape that it's a planet.

00:30:29.000 Do you know what that word planet means or where it derives from?

00:30:31.000 No.

00:30:32.000 So, I love that etymology.

00:30:33.000 And stop me if I'm nerding out too much.

00:30:35.000 But planet means wanderer in Greek.

00:30:37.000 Wanderer.

00:30:38.000 What is it wandering against?

00:30:39.000 The fixed stars.

00:30:40.000 So, the fact that you have names for things...

00:30:43.000 You know, I always think it's funny.

00:30:44.000 Like, I'm Jewish.

00:30:45.000 And we have a name for people that aren't Jewish.

00:30:47.000 Goyim.

00:30:48.000 Goyim.

00:30:48.000 It's not an insult.

00:30:49.000 It just means nation.

00:30:51.000 Actually, Israel is a Goy, which is a nation. 0.89

00:30:53.000 But we're 0.2% of the world's population.

00:30:56.000 Like, what the hell?

00:30:57.000 Why are you making up names? 0.97

00:30:59.000 They should make names for you, right?

00:31:00.000 But we have names as astronomers.

00:31:03.000 There were only five things they could see that would move in space, and those were the planets from Mercury, Venus.

00:31:09.000 Obviously, they could see Mars and Jupiter and Saturn.

00:31:12.000 But they couldn't see anything else, so they named those things the Wanderers, and they wandered against the fixed stars.

00:31:17.000 Now we know the stars do move, and actually the whole galaxy moves, and potentially, we'll get to this maybe later, and maybe the universe, in some sense, could be said to be moving in a vaster landscape called the multiverse, which we can get to at a certain point.

00:31:32.000 But the planets, you can see them.

00:31:34.000 But what's so important is what Galileo saw.

00:31:37.000 Jamie, if you could show this, it would be amazing.

00:31:39.000 Galileo, in the winter of 1610 in northern Italy, where he was living, He used a telescope not any better than this.

00:31:48.000 In fact, this might be better because the glass is better, even though it's a Chinese piece of junk I bought on eBay. 1.00

00:31:54.000 But he mapped.

00:31:56.000 He was able to measure Jupiter and see it, and hopefully we can see it on the screen.

00:32:01.000 And he saw it as a disk.

00:32:04.000 So if you want to see planets, you can differentiate them right now by the fact that they do not scintillate.

00:32:10.000 They do not sparkle.

00:32:12.000 They do not twinkle-twinkle like stars do.

00:32:14.000 Because they're extended objects that we can actually see through the same and different parts of the atmospheric column.

00:32:21.000 That's what causes scintillation.

00:32:22.000 You know, like a sniper rifle?

00:32:23.000 They correct for it.

00:32:24.000 They use what's called adaptive optics.

00:32:26.000 That's to avoid like the thermal radiation from the earth.

00:32:29.000 Like you're shooting something or elk or whatever at great distance, there's thermal radiation close to the ground and then the air is much cooler and so you get these boundary layers of the atmosphere that causes differential refraction which changes the color and the position of where the deer is and that's not good,

00:32:44.000 right?

00:32:45.000 So they have to correct for that using what's called adaptive optics.

00:32:48.000 Anyway, but the same phenomenon happens for the planets.

00:32:51.000 They're so big, they're so close to us.

00:32:53.000 They're not bigger than the stars.

00:32:54.000 Stars are massively bigger than any of our planets, including Jupiter, the biggest planet in the solar system.

00:32:59.000 But because they're close to us, they don't appear to be points.

00:33:04.000 And only points will twinkle.

00:33:06.000 So if you want to identify a star versus a plane versus a planet, the planet will be the thing that doesn't move.

00:33:12.000 And doesn't twinkle.

00:33:14.000 That's called scintillation.

00:33:15.000 They do not scintillate the same way that stars do.

00:33:17.000 So what Galileo did in January of 1610 is he made a series of observations of the planet Jupiter.

00:33:24.000 He knew exactly where it was.

00:33:25.000 He also invented the tripod.

00:33:27.000 He was the first person.

00:33:29.000 These things that we just take for granted, like, Joe, do you know that they didn't have clocks back then?

00:33:33.000 There was no clock.

00:33:34.000 They had sundials, right?

00:33:36.000 They had sundials, but what are you going to do at night?

00:33:37.000 Well, it was the first clock.

00:33:39.000 So Galileo tried to invent the first clock.

00:33:41.000 It was actually part of a precursor to the Nobel Prize.

00:33:44.000 It was something called the Longitude Prize.

00:33:46.000 They offered a prize.

00:33:47.000 I don't know if you've ever done any boating or whatever, but when you're out on the ocean, it's extremely hard to determine what your longitude is.

00:33:54.000 It's easy to find your latitude.

00:33:56.000 You just look for Polaris, the North Star.

00:33:58.000 You measure your elevation, and that's going to complement where you are latitudinally on the But it was impossible to tell where you are east to west from the prime meridian unless you had an accurate way of measuring time.

00:34:13.000 So Galileo was one of the first people to try to compete to win this prize which was worth like a million dollars back then in those days.

00:34:22.000 And he tried a couple different ways to invent time pieces.

00:34:26.000 But the one that he's tried to settle on was this use of the planet Jupiter's moons.

00:34:32.000 Jupiter has four moons.

00:34:36.000 I came for that look, Joe.

00:34:37.000 I came for that look.

00:34:38.000 I can die happy.

00:34:40.000 I got the look.

00:34:41.000 Jupiter has four moons.

00:34:43.000 And you can see them with this telescope.

00:34:44.000 And I'm going to give this as a gift to you for your birthday.

00:34:46.000 That little tiny one?

00:34:47.000 You can see it, yeah.

00:34:48.000 If Jupiter's out and you know where to look and you kind of use a little bit of creative...

00:34:52.000 This one's about 12, 15 power.

00:34:54.000 So you could do it with 15 binoculars?

00:34:57.000 Yeah.

00:34:58.000 You'll see what you'll see.

00:35:00.000 These four moons.

00:35:01.000 But I wonder if, Jamie, if you could find something that wasn't great.

00:35:06.000 If you look up Starry Messenger, Galileo, Sketch, Jupiter.

00:35:16.000 So what Galileo did is he turned the telescope to the moon in 1609, and then in 1610, there they are, Jamie, on the right with those stars.

00:35:26.000 Look at that illustration of Galileo.

00:35:28.000 That's his handwritten.

00:35:30.000 I've seen a friend of mine owns this copy, a first edition of these books, and you're looking at it and actually- A first edition?

00:35:36.000 The actual copy that he wrote on?

00:35:37.000 Not only that, yeah, the first edition, but it has his handwriting on it in pencil.

00:35:41.000 Whoa.

00:35:42.000 It's insane.

00:35:43.000 Oh my god, that's got to be worth a billion dollars.

00:35:45.000 Jamie, could you please go back to those illustrations?

00:35:48.000 I have this thing.

00:35:49.000 That's the handwritten stuff?

00:35:50.000 I couldn't tell what this was, that's why I didn't want to bring it up.

00:35:54.000 Imagine having a piece of paper that that guy wrote on.

00:35:57.000 Can you imagine?

00:35:57.000 So this is a depiction of him showing, so Galileo's the guy with the beard looking down, like Andrew Huberman, at the guy with the white beard.

00:36:06.000 He does look like Andrew Huberman.

00:36:08.000 Look at that beautiful chiseled beard.

00:36:09.000 That's right.

00:36:10.000 Muscular.

00:36:11.000 So he's showing these Venetian senators because they were in charge of the military budget.

00:36:17.000 So even back then there was a scientific military connection that he realized because Galileo was kind of a cad.

00:36:25.000 He had a bunch of mistresses. 0.99

00:36:26.000 He had some illegitimate children.

00:36:28.000 How dare you, Galileo?

00:36:30.000 He had a support.

00:36:31.000 How dare you not be pure?

00:36:33.000 He had to support his brother, who's kind of a no-good Nick.

00:36:37.000 But anyway, the sketches in the lower right show the planet as you will see it with this telescope.

00:36:42.000 And I'll let you know when it comes out.

00:36:44.000 And those four little dots, there was an image a couple of pages back, Jamie, that showed the planet as a disk.

00:36:51.000 And then there are four stars.

00:36:52.000 And if you go back one, I'll point it out to you.

00:36:55.000 Yeah, see that thing in the lower right, Jamie?

00:36:57.000 Oh.

00:36:57.000 It's a Pinterest thing.

00:36:59.000 I don't know if that's a bad...

00:36:59.000 Yeah, click on that.

00:37:01.000 So here's a couple of...

00:37:02.000 See, it says January...

00:37:03.000 It's hard to see.

00:37:04.000 It's January 1610. That's Galileo's handwriting.

00:37:07.000 Wow.

00:37:07.000 And Ionis is like Jupiter, okay?

00:37:09.000 He had shit handwriting. 0.99

00:37:11.000 Oh, I know, yeah. 1.00

00:37:12.000 I always thought people back then just wrote perfectly with feathers.

00:37:15.000 Yeah.

00:37:15.000 Who knew how to read it?

00:37:17.000 That's a good point.

00:37:18.000 That's a very good point.

00:37:20.000 He's got like a doctor's handwriting.

00:37:22.000 Exactly.

00:37:23.000 So this is his first major book.

00:37:25.000 In the upper left, you see the sketch of the moon with these giant craters on it.

00:37:31.000 That crater, yeah, so if you go back, so click on that, James.

00:37:33.000 That's his sketch?

00:37:34.000 That's his sketch of the moon through this telescope, essentially, okay?

00:37:38.000 Now, the interesting thing is, see that big crater?

00:37:40.000 That doesn't exist.

00:37:41.000 Really?

00:37:42.000 That does not exist.

00:37:42.000 The one on the top?

00:37:43.000 No, the one on the bottom.

00:37:44.000 That one.

00:37:45.000 Doesn't exist?

00:37:45.000 Does not exist.

00:37:47.000 Now, why is it there?

00:37:48.000 He was a smart guy.

00:37:49.000 He was an artist, too, by the way.

00:37:51.000 His father, Vincenzo, was a beautiful musician, a well-known musician.

00:37:53.000 He was a sketch.

00:37:54.000 I mean, that's hand-drawn.

00:37:56.000 Why did he put that there?

00:37:57.000 Because, Joe, he wanted to convey not only what it looked like, but how it felt.

00:38:05.000 Hmm.

00:38:06.000 He was conveying.

00:38:07.000 And when you see it, you'll feel like it's like that big.

00:38:09.000 But if you actually measure it, it's about 10 times smaller than that.

00:38:11.000 Oh, so he just made it larger than it really is.

00:38:14.000 To emphasize it.

00:38:15.000 And what's so cool about that, if you want to know, you've had on like my friend Sean Carroll.

00:38:20.000 He talked about the Higgs boson when he was on the first time.

00:38:23.000 If you want to feel what it was like to discover the Higgs boson, you need 10 to 20 billion euros and you need a Large Hadron Collider.

00:38:31.000 Okay, good luck.

00:38:32.000 I don't know if Spotify is going to hook you up there.

00:38:36.000 But the feeling that Galileo had, you can have that tonight.

00:38:40.000 You can feel what it's like to see things for the first time in human history because it's your own history.

00:38:47.000 You're experiencing it for the first time.

00:38:48.000 There's no other scientific tool, nothing.

00:38:51.000 Even the microscope, it's not the same viscerally.

00:38:54.000 You will be connected to Galileo 400 years ago feeling he was terrified.

00:38:59.000 When he saw those pictures of those dots, he realized what he was looking at was not just like some stars that happened to be next to Jupiter.

00:39:07.000 He realized he discovered another solar system A system in which there was a massive gravitating object, Jupiter, and around it were orbiting satellites, were orbiting moons around it.

00:39:18.000 Today they're called the Galilean satellites.

00:39:20.000 He actually named them after his benefactor, those patrons, the Medicis, who were the richest, you know, people in that part of northern Italy.

00:39:27.000 So he was clever, right?

00:39:29.000 He was trying to curry favor.

00:39:31.000 It would be like if we named the, you know, whatever, the Higgs boson, we named that after, you know, the European equivalent of the IRS, right?

00:39:40.000 He was kind of a kiss-up, you know, in some ways.

00:39:43.000 But it had to save his life and he needed money and stuff.

00:39:46.000 But when he drew that, he realized, wait a second, the Bible and all teaching heretofore said there is only one center to the solar system and it's the Earth.

00:39:57.000 Not the Sun.

00:39:58.000 This is called geocentrism.

00:40:00.000 Everybody believed that.

00:40:02.000 Aristotle, Plato, everybody had believed that for a long time because it said it was natural that heavy things should fall towards a center, and the center that everything seemed to fall towards was the center of the Earth or the Earth itself.

00:40:14.000 Therefore, the Earth must be the center of the universe.

00:40:17.000 Remember, the solar system was the universe for a long time.

00:40:19.000 Then for an equally long time almost, the galaxy was the whole universe.

00:40:23.000 And now there's the universe and maybe the multiverse that we'll talk about.

00:40:28.000 So this was just incredible realization to him.

00:40:31.000 Imagine like you come upon this thing and you realize you're the first person in human history ever to feel that.

00:40:36.000 Is there any documentation of his struggle with trying to convey these ideas to people that had very strong religious beliefs?

00:40:46.000 Yeah.

00:40:47.000 Because obviously it turned out to be a catastrophe for him.

00:40:50.000 That's right.

00:40:51.000 But did he convey in his writing the frustration that he had?

00:40:57.000 He's such a fascinating person.

00:40:59.000 I always make a provocative statement that, like, we don't need English departments.

00:41:02.000 We should just teach, like, Physics and astronomy, because some of the great scientists of history, men and women, were tremendous orators, they were tremendous writers, and they could convey things through the written word that was pure artistry and mastery.

00:41:17.000 And Galileo would say things like, I do not believe that the same God who has given us senses to understand the world would require that we not use that, and I'm butchering the quote, not use them in order to better understand it.

00:41:29.000 He would write things that he had discovered things, you know, only as a way to open a portal into the universe such that minds more astute than mine may be able to walk through this portal.

00:41:43.000 And he was being a little falsely humble.

00:41:46.000 But Newton was the same way.

00:41:48.000 Newton would write as a great order.

00:41:49.000 So you can learn a lot from scientific writing.

00:41:52.000 So therefore, if you only had to choose one thing, I would take the books of Galileo.

00:41:56.000 And this geocentric version of the universe that they've...

00:42:00.000 How is it written in the Bible?

00:42:02.000 Like, how do they describe?

00:42:04.000 It's actually, you know, the atheists, so... 0.99

00:42:07.000 I call myself a practicing agnostic, which I can define later if you like.

00:42:12.000 But you had on my friend Stephen C. Meyer, which is partially the reason I'm here, I think.

00:42:16.000 But to have the discussion about, you know, the influence of religion on science.

00:42:21.000 And he made the claim that without religion, we wouldn't have science on the show a couple weeks ago.

00:42:25.000 In other words, we wouldn't have the tradition that the world is intelligible.

00:42:29.000 It's not the capricious will of gods, you know, playing with human beings as Greeks and others had identified.

00:42:36.000 So the notion of, you know, how religious a scientist could be or how religion impacted him was very clear.

00:42:44.000 He was a very religious person.

00:42:46.000 In fact, two of his daughters were nuns and because of his You know, I always say, like, imagine we're living in a time where someone like Anthony Fauci or, you know, Francis Collins or somebody, that they had—they were not only the scientists, the expert scientists,

00:43:03.000 say, but they also control the government.

00:43:05.000 In other words, the most powerful force on Earth at that time, at least where Galileo was, was the Vatican.

00:43:10.000 He never left Italy.

00:43:11.000 He never left...

00:43:12.000 Italy didn't exist back then, by the way.

00:43:14.000 They were only city-states, right?

00:43:15.000 Tuscany and Venice and Rome and so forth.

00:43:18.000 But the notion...

00:43:19.000 It was a Catholic, you know, band of jurisdiction and Catholic Church had sway over that part of Italy and Tuscany where he was.

00:43:25.000 He was very religious, but he thought that he could say things like if he proved that something scientifically was true, he didn't understand why that couldn't be part of the religious canon.

00:43:39.000 So he was surprised.

00:43:40.000 In other words, he felt that the signature of God Yeah.

00:44:00.000 It could lead, I'm not saying it's good, but it could lead them to want to suppress that, right?

00:44:05.000 Because it could lead to insurrections, it could lead to whatever, and rebellions.

00:44:10.000 And that could be perceived as very threatening to the state.

00:44:12.000 But to answer your question, the Bible doesn't say anything about geocentrism.

00:44:17.000 There are passages in the Bible, there's two famous ones.

00:44:19.000 The most famous one is that Joshua, in the Battle of Jericho, he caused the sun to stand still.

00:44:27.000 And that, to many people, implies that the sun was orbiting around the Earth.

00:44:33.000 It certainly could be construed that way.

00:44:35.000 But to answer your question, there is no real cosmology.

00:44:38.000 You know, I would say, like, let me ask you, I don't know how much, I know you've had some exposure to Christianity, but I don't know how much you've ever read of the Old Testament and the Hebrew Bible, but the beginning of Genesis, right?

00:44:51.000 So I know that you're interested in origin stories, right?

00:44:54.000 Mm-hmm.

00:44:54.000 So why is it that a book about, you know, a nomadic band of Bronze Age, you know, peasants, why does it begin with the creation of the world, of the universe?

00:45:06.000 Isn't that weird?

00:45:06.000 Like, shouldn't it be like, oh, there's something really delicious that you're going to want to eat.

00:45:10.000 It's called a pig.

00:45:12.000 You know, don't eat, like, why doesn't it start with that?

00:45:14.000 Why does it start with the origin of the universe?

00:45:16.000 Well, isn't that the ultimate question that man would have?

00:45:20.000 I think you're right.

00:45:22.000 I think another way to interpret it is if God created the universe, then it's kind of like he has title to everything, right?

00:45:29.000 He then could make a claim that, look, there's no God above me.

00:45:32.000 And think about the milieu that the Hebrew Bible came about in.

00:45:38.000 It was pantheistic.

00:45:39.000 It was in direct contradistinction to the other great religion of the time, which was, you know, necropolism, which was basically Egypt. 0.68

00:45:47.000 Egypt was a culture fixated on death. 1.00

00:45:51.000 The pyramids, giant tombs.

00:45:53.000 They had mummification to preserve you into the afterlife.

00:45:56.000 They named everything after themselves.

00:45:59.000 They had statues.

00:46:00.000 Their Bible was called the Book of the Dead.

00:46:02.000 In other words, in contradistinction to the Jewish Bible, the Torah is like the Book of Life, we call it. 0.83

00:46:09.000 So Judaism is operating under that where there were gods and the gods were within nature and they controlled man. 0.93

00:46:16.000 The Hebrew Bible was meant to show that no, God is above nature and controls nature.

00:46:22.000 Therefore, the sun—everything was weird that the sun is created on the fourth day.

00:46:26.000 In the Genesis description, the sun doesn't come about until the fourth day.

00:46:30.000 What's the day?

00:46:31.000 What's first?

00:46:32.000 Right.

00:46:32.000 Let there be light.

00:46:34.000 Let there be light from what?

00:46:35.000 From creation ex milio.

00:46:38.000 Right, you know?

00:46:38.000 The multiverse.

00:46:39.000 If it's not from the sun, there is no light.

00:46:41.000 That's right.

00:46:42.000 So what planets are we talking about?

00:46:44.000 Exactly, right.

00:46:45.000 But getting back to the original question, Galileo was very religious.

00:46:49.000 But where does it say in the Bible that the Earth is the center of everything?

00:46:54.000 It's very interesting.

00:46:56.000 What ended up happening was the reason it was dangerous for him, and he was accused of apostasy.

00:47:02.000 It was because he was claiming against the doctrine of—effectively of Aristotle, and actually Stephen Meyer taught this to me in a conference that I went to with him last year, just a conversation.

00:47:15.000 I always wondered, why is it that the Catholic Church—Catholicism branches Christianity, which came from Judaism, right?

00:47:24.000 I mean, the origin of—they accept the Hebrew Bible, right?

00:47:27.000 So why is it that a sect of, say, the scientific and technological elite of the Catholic Church, why did they want to support a doctrine which really traced itself back to Aristotle?

00:47:42.000 The Aristotelian notion was that everything was centered on the earth.

00:47:47.000 There's nothing in the Bible that says the earth is the center of the solar system or doesn't say that.

00:47:51.000 But Aristotle made such logical sense to the Christians, to the early Christians and later to the Catholic Church, that they basically sanctified and made Aristotle effectively into a saint.

00:48:03.000 Wow.

00:48:04.000 And so therefore it was blasphemy for Galileo to contradict Aristotle.

00:48:09.000 Wow.

00:48:11.000 That's incredible.

00:48:13.000 It's really strange because, you know, Aristotle was a pagan, right?

00:48:18.000 He was pantheistic, which is the number one law of the Ten Commandments, right, is I am the Lord, you shall have no other gods before me, meaning that Judaism came to destroy pantheism and to accept monotheism and establish it throughout the world, and now three billion people are affiliated with it in some way, 0.92

00:48:34.000 right?

00:48:35.000 So that was its key enemy.

00:48:37.000 And so we didn't have a sun god.

00:48:39.000 That's why if God creates the sun, God Hashem or, you know, the God of Allah or whatever, that is more powerful than the sun.

00:48:47.000 So it supersedes it.

00:48:49.000 God controls the sun to do things for us and the moon to do things for us for our benefit, not for us to worship.

00:48:56.000 That is crazy!

00:48:58.000 Questioning Aristotle became blasphemy and that's the idea of the geocentric universe.

00:49:05.000 Wow!

00:49:06.000 That's amazing!

00:49:08.000 That's really amazing.

00:49:09.000 It was very surprising.

00:49:11.000 Because didn't they recognize that in Galileo they had essentially someone like Aristotle.

00:49:18.000 Yeah.

00:49:18.000 A very unique mind that shapes its generation and many generations to come right in front of them.

00:49:24.000 And like, no, you're committing blasphemy for being brilliant.

00:49:27.000 And you know what's amazing?

00:49:28.000 Galileo has never been pardoned formally by the Catholic Church.

00:49:33.000 Pope John Paul...

00:49:34.000 We really don't want to get into that.

00:49:36.000 The Catholic Church is... 0.99

00:49:38.000 But that's part of the reason I became an astronomer.

00:49:41.000 Interesting.

00:49:41.000 Yeah.

00:49:41.000 Galileo was my hero.

00:49:43.000 I got a telescope.

00:49:44.000 So I was born Jewish.

00:49:45.000 Both my parents were Jewish.

00:49:46.000 My father passed away.

00:49:48.000 But they're both biologically Jewish.

00:49:51.000 When I was seven, my father abandoned me and my older brother, Kevin, and he started a new life.

00:49:58.000 And my mother remarried an Irish Catholic man by the name of Ray Keating.

00:50:02.000 And he was very devout Catholic.

00:50:04.000 He's still alive, thankfully, and he lives on the East Coast.

00:50:08.000 And his family was ten brothers and sisters.

00:50:12.000 And they welcomed me into their home, and my older brother Kevin...

00:50:17.000 With such love and graciousness and just touching humility and this big Irish Catholic family, they basically would call – they thought that we became their biological grandchildren, cousins, nephews and so forth.

00:50:31.000 OK? I'm still close with them.

00:50:32.000 That's amazing.

00:50:33.000 And I became so overawed by it.

00:50:35.000 And in contradistinction to that, anything I remember about Judaism from age zero to seven was just like, okay, well, like you have to not eat, you know, once you can't eat that tasty bacon. 0.93

00:50:45.000 It was all things you can't do and so forth, right?

00:50:48.000 So this was like Christmas, Easter, hanging out, like just boisterous 50 cousins at Christmas.

00:50:54.000 So I became, at the traditional age that a Jewish boy starts learning for his bar mitzvah at age 12, I became an altar boy in the Catholic Church in Chappaqua, New York.

00:51:06.000 And at the exact same time, I was saving up money to buy my first telescope.

00:51:13.000 Because one night I had fallen asleep and I woke up in the middle of the night and outside the window I saw this huge bright light and I didn't think there was a street light out there in the middle of summer looking at it.

00:51:27.000 And I was like, wait, that's the moon?

00:51:29.000 And there was something next to the moon that was like, it looked like a little fragment of the moon had broken off and was just like to the left of it.

00:51:35.000 It was as bright as the moon, but much, much smaller.

00:51:37.000 And I was like, what the hell?

00:51:38.000 And this is in 1986, right?

00:51:40.000 There's no Google.

00:51:41.000 And I remember like what it was like before the internet.

00:51:44.000 So I was like, what the hell is that thing?

00:51:47.000 And I had to wait until Sunday.

00:51:49.000 The New York Times used to print a section called Cosmos.

00:51:52.000 And in Cosmos, it would say, like, what's happening in the skies?

00:51:55.000 There's going to be this, there's that.

00:51:56.000 You know, it's the first phase of the moon.

00:51:57.000 And it showed a picture of the moon and some stars and, like, a map like this, but for stars.

00:52:03.000 And there was a thing next to it that said Jupiter.

00:52:07.000 I was like, what the hell?

00:52:08.000 Like, I saw a planet?

00:52:10.000 Like, I didn't know you could see a planet without a, like, Hubble space, you know, whatever, or without a satellite.

00:52:16.000 And so I just got really interested, and I kept watching them night after night.

00:52:19.000 And I was unknowingly, and I always joke, I have a pretty big ego, but I'm not going to compare myself to Galileo.

00:52:25.000 But indirectly, I kept doing the things that Galileo had done, like seeing, oh, wait, the moon has craters on it?

00:52:30.000 Oh, wait, the moon has mountains on it?

00:52:32.000 And maybe I could measure the height of those mountains from the size of the shadow and knowing the distance to the moon?

00:52:37.000 And the planet Jupiter has these four little dots around it, and they would change their position night to night.

00:52:43.000 And like a lesser intellect like mine, you know, not intelligent at the time, looking at it, would have just said, oh, you know, Jupiter's just next to some stars, and it's going to move, tomorrow will be different.

00:52:53.000 But no, Galileo realized he was looking at a mini solar system edge-on.

00:52:58.000 If you looked out above, he'd see these four moons going around like this, but he was looking at it like this, so they were kind of going like this back and forth, and it was periodic.

00:53:06.000 And he kept doing it for night after night after night.

00:53:09.000 And it kind of got boring in his book, The Sidereus Nuncius, which is otherwise an amazing book.

00:53:14.000 But when you look at it, he realized, hey, it's so periodic, I could use it as a clock.

00:53:20.000 So he tried to win this prize to invent the first stable, accurate clock that could be used by mariners on the ocean's surface far from land to determine the time difference between them and Greenwich, therefore determining their longitude.

00:53:33.000 And what's the mechanism that he proposed to try to measure these planets going around?

00:53:38.000 Yeah, so if you just plotted their distance over enough time, it was periodic, so you could just calculate it, just like the moon.

00:53:45.000 Right, but I mean in terms of the actual mechanical clock itself?

00:53:48.000 Is it just a calculated clock on paper?

00:53:52.000 You'd look up in a table, like a database.

00:53:55.000 He would have it printed forever.

00:53:56.000 But you'd still need to see the planets and moons surrounding it.

00:54:01.000 So basically it was the first virtual reality helmet.

00:54:05.000 It's called like a cellophone or something.

00:54:08.000 So it was actually a helmet that you'd put on, and then it had these two short versions of his telescopes on his eyes.

00:54:14.000 Whoa.

00:54:15.000 And then like you'd go on the ship, and they'd be moving around like this, and you'd try to do it.

00:54:18.000 It failed.

00:54:19.000 He didn't win it.

00:54:21.000 And it would probably make you like totally nauseous.

00:54:24.000 Yeah.

00:54:24.000 So you were wearing a helmet with telescopes in the front.

00:54:28.000 At night, on the ocean.

00:54:28.000 And then you're supposed to stare up at Jupiter and count?

00:54:32.000 Yeah.

00:54:32.000 I don't understand.

00:54:34.000 You just look at the positions.

00:54:35.000 That's the thing?

00:54:36.000 That's what it looks like?

00:54:37.000 Wow.

00:54:37.000 Set alone.

00:54:38.000 Thank you, Jamie.

00:54:38.000 That looks so crazy.

00:54:40.000 When I saw that in the battlefield, I'd run.

00:54:41.000 I'm like, they have evil weapons.

00:54:43.000 They have satanic weapons.

00:54:44.000 And then, first of all, you can't see Jupiter for part of the year when it's behind the sun, so that's useless.

00:54:50.000 It's got a candle on it.

00:54:51.000 It's got a candle!

00:54:53.000 Oh my god, that's hilarious.

00:54:55.000 They didn't have clocks.

00:54:56.000 Right.

00:54:56.000 Forget about lights.

00:54:57.000 They didn't have clocks.

00:54:58.000 So when was the first mechanical clock?

00:55:00.000 So the first mechanical clocks were developed, I think, in Switzerland and in Northern Europe, Germany and Switzerland.

00:55:06.000 There were wind-ups and springs and so forth.

00:55:09.000 First pendulum clocks.

00:55:11.000 And what year was that around?

00:55:12.000 This was in the early 1700s.

00:55:13.000 So it was finally won, I believe.

00:55:15.000 The Longitude Prize was won in the mid-1700s.

00:55:18.000 Wow.

00:55:18.000 But actually Galileo tried to do this from his youth.

00:55:22.000 He would be in church and I remember even though I was an altar boy and I loved it and I had good experiences in the Catholic church even though I abandoned it later on as I'll describe.

00:55:31.000 But one day Galileo was in church and the priest was giving some boring sermon and Galileo was just sitting there like this.

00:55:42.000 And he looked up and there was a lantern and like some horse cart had gone through or whatever and the lantern was going back and forth like a pendulum.

00:55:49.000 And Galileo put his fingers on his pulse.

00:55:53.000 And he timed the period of the pendulum and he realized it didn't change.

00:55:58.000 It was constant.

00:56:00.000 And no matter what he would use for the pendulum, as long as it had the same length, it would have the same period.

00:56:06.000 So all the lanterns with the same length chain All the chandeliers, they were all having the same periods.

00:56:14.000 But those of a shorter one would go back and forth faster.

00:56:16.000 So he discovered the law of pendulums.

00:56:18.000 And he was like five years old.

00:56:19.000 Like those old grandfather clubs.

00:56:21.000 My grandpa's parents used to have one of those.

00:56:23.000 It would swing.

00:56:24.000 It had this brass thing.

00:56:25.000 There it is.

00:56:26.000 And it would swing.

00:56:27.000 Yep.

00:56:27.000 So they have all these things.

00:56:28.000 He invented the first thermometers.

00:56:30.000 Jamie, if you want to look up a Galileo thermometer.

00:56:32.000 How did they discern the amount of minutes in an hour, the amount of hours in a day?

00:56:38.000 So, to get to a level of precision now, or then, to a few minutes or a fraction of a day, that was easily significant enough to make measurements of longitude.

00:56:49.000 So, the actual kind of level of precision, that didn't occur into the 1800s, to get really good clocks.

00:56:55.000 And now, I talk to, you know, people, Bill Phillips on my podcast, the Nobel Laureate, At NIST, National Institute of Standards and Technology in Maryland, and they are making clocks that are accurate to one part in a thousand trillionth of a second.

00:57:11.000 This thing will not lose time over the age of the universe.

00:57:14.000 And this is a mechanical clock?

00:57:15.000 This is what's called an atomic clock.

00:57:17.000 It's optical lattices, and they cool things down to almost absolute zero.

00:57:21.000 But the reason is the Earth used to be...

00:57:23.000 The Earth was the first clock, right?

00:57:24.000 The Earth turns around once per day, right?

00:57:27.000 And the Babylonians decided that they'd like to do it in units of 60, even though we have 10 fingers and toes.

00:57:33.000 They did it in fractions of 60, 60 minutes, 60 seconds, 3600 seconds in an hour.

00:57:37.000 Right, but why did they do that?

00:57:40.000 That's your game.

00:57:42.000 I mean, I don't know why they think about these things.

00:57:44.000 I mean, 60 has a lot of divisors, and so it's convenient.

00:57:47.000 You know, it's divisible by 15, 12, 10, 5, 6. I wonder if there was an argument.

00:57:51.000 I mean, when they first decided, okay, right now it's 1 o'clock.

00:57:54.000 You know, it starts right now.

00:57:56.000 Like, how do you start the day?

00:57:57.000 How do you decide?

00:57:58.000 Like, it's fascinating that the whole world has adopted this system, essentially, other than military, which uses a 24-hour system.

00:58:05.000 That's right, yeah.

00:58:05.000 When you think about that, the whole world just decides...

00:58:09.000 You know, okay, we're all going to agree.

00:58:10.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:58:11.000 You know, and then some places are like, fuck you with Daylight Savings. 1.00

00:58:14.000 Exactly. 1.00

00:58:14.000 We're not playing that game. 1.00

00:58:15.000 Arizona.

00:58:16.000 Yeah.

00:58:16.000 There's a few places like that, right?

00:58:18.000 Like, Arizona doesn't do anything all year.

00:58:19.000 They don't play that game.

00:58:20.000 That's right. 1.00

00:58:21.000 They're like, fuck off with your fucking pretend clocks. 1.00

00:58:23.000 We do things our way up here. 1.00

00:58:24.000 But I mean, and then, you know, obviously there's time zones and, you know, with traveling, the way we do now, it's so fascinating because you could literally fly somewhere and it's 10 hour difference in time zone.

00:58:35.000 Or like Nova Scotia or Prince Edward Island, it's half hours.

00:58:37.000 Got half hour time zones out there.

00:58:39.000 So all this is bringing up a notion of what's called calibration.

00:58:42.000 So I'm an experimental physicist.

00:58:44.000 The hardest thing about doing a measurement for me is not like knowing what I measure, it's knowing how I screwed up the measurement.

00:58:50.000 It's like, what went wrong?

00:58:51.000 How do I know?

00:58:52.000 Like you said, how do I know what the base level zero point is of this measurement?

00:58:56.000 What's the calibration?

00:58:57.000 When you buy this cup of coffee, When you buy the Black Rifle or the Onnit or whatever, how do you know you're getting exactly what they say?

00:59:04.000 It's just printed on there, right?

00:59:05.000 So I'll ask you.

00:59:06.000 You're one of the owners, right?

00:59:07.000 So how do you ensure that?

00:59:08.000 Have you ever thought about that?

00:59:10.000 Do you go in and count all the items?

00:59:11.000 No, we had issues with that in the past when we first started the company.

00:59:15.000 Well, we were getting stuff made in these places that do supplements.

00:59:20.000 And so we were third-party testing our stuff and finding things in our supplements that weren't supposed to be in there, like different vitamins.

00:59:27.000 Like, why is that in there?

00:59:28.000 And then trace amounts.

00:59:29.000 And it turns out it's contamination.

00:59:30.000 That's right.

00:59:31.000 And that's a lot of athletes actually get popped from small levels of steroids that are in like protein powders and creatines and things that they buy from, you know, kind of shade organizations.

00:59:44.000 Yeah, my man, Fernando Tatis, he got nailed for that last year, right?

00:59:47.000 What does he do?

00:59:48.000 He's a San Diego Padres.

00:59:50.000 He's the right fielder now.

00:59:51.000 There's a lot of claims that people get popped for that.

00:59:56.000 Canelo said he had tainted meat from tacos.

00:59:58.000 Oh, they just happen to have steroids in them? 1.00

01:00:01.000 And you look jacked as fuck? 1.00

01:00:02.000 Okay, bro. 1.00

01:00:04.000 Settle down, sir.

01:00:05.000 Do steroids work if you're not going to the gym?

01:00:09.000 No, they do not.

01:00:10.000 But for athletes, they have a significant advantage and they allow you to recover much quicker.

01:00:15.000 You know, there's certain sports...

01:00:18.000 Well, if you go out bodybuilding a sport, right?

01:00:20.000 It's impossible.

01:00:21.000 It's impossible without steroids. 0.99

01:00:22.000 Some of these guys are just insane.

01:00:23.000 You cannot get to that size. 0.79

01:00:25.000 You don't get to Ronnie Coleman's size.

01:00:27.000 You don't get to, like, Dorian Yates' size.

01:00:28.000 You don't get there without steroids.

01:00:29.000 My mother-in-law's size. 0.99

01:00:30.000 My mother-in-law, tragically, she lost her...

01:00:34.000 Would have been my oldest brother-in-law when he was about 16 years old.

01:00:38.000 My wife's oldest brother.

01:00:40.000 And she dedicated her life to just, like...

01:00:43.000 Just being the best person she could be.

01:00:45.000 And she entered, she built her body up. 0.95

01:00:47.000 My mother-in-law Allison, I'm like emotional thinking about her because I love her so much.

01:00:50.000 And she built her body and she did this as like a Jewish grandmother, you know, basically. 0.77

01:00:56.000 Wow.

01:00:56.000 And she's totally ripped.

01:00:58.000 I mean, she's still in great shape, but this is like 10 or 15 years ago, maybe 20 years ago.

01:01:02.000 And I used to joke when I was dating my wife Sarah, I was like, you know, normally I take a girl out, you know, scared of her father, like, I'm terrified of your mother. 0.99

01:01:09.000 She kicked my ass. 0.99

01:01:11.000 But, like, she never used steroids. 1.00

01:01:12.000 I mean, she's, you know, it's not her way, anyway.

01:01:14.000 But you can get cut, I think.

01:01:16.000 You can get, like, low body fat without taking illegal stuff, probably.

01:01:20.000 But you probably can't get the musculature, is what you're saying.

01:01:22.000 Oh, you can get very big without taking steroids.

01:01:24.000 There's a lot of people that are massive without taking steroids.

01:01:27.000 There's a lot of people that have fantastic genetics.

01:01:30.000 There's a lot of people that have just thick, heavy builds.

01:01:33.000 You know, it's natural.

01:01:35.000 There's many, many people like that.

01:01:38.000 But to get to the size of a bodybuilder is superhuman.

01:01:42.000 It's not possible without steroids.

01:01:44.000 That is a science project.

01:01:45.000 When you look at these people that have just traps that start at the top of their ears and boulders for sure, bowling ball shoulders.

01:01:55.000 That's not possible. 0.78

01:01:57.000 I've met many people that are really fit and look fucking huge and they don't do steroids.

01:02:04.000 There's a lot in the UFC. The UFC USADA tests everybody. 0.93

01:02:08.000 So they'll show up at your house at 6.30 in the morning.

01:02:10.000 Wake up, sir.

01:02:11.000 We need a urine test and we need a blood sample.

01:02:14.000 And they do that all the time, and these jacked people don't get caught. 0.69

01:02:21.000 Either they're doing it so sophisticated that even with USADA, which is the most sophisticated anti-doping program that we have available, and very invasive, right?

01:02:29.000 Because it's a real problem. 0.79

01:02:31.000 It wakes guys up on weigh-in days and shit like that. 0.97

01:02:33.000 It's not good. 0.87

01:02:34.000 And they're trying not to do that now, but you have to make sure that it's completely right.

01:02:38.000 You can catch them.

01:02:40.000 So there's some short-acting testosterone supplements that you can take that Particularly now, apparently there's some new ones that they leave the body in like two and a half hours.

01:02:52.000 So you can take them and get an elevated level of testosterone.

01:02:56.000 You can take them multiple times a day and it doesn't affect your natural testosterone production and it also doesn't show up if you get past that two and a half hour window.

01:03:06.000 So there could be a lot of people who are just rolling the dice.

01:03:09.000 I see, I see.

01:03:09.000 And how do the weigh-ins work?

01:03:11.000 Because one of the things I was going to mention is when you weigh something, what are you comparing it against?

01:03:17.000 The weigh-ins are sanctioned cheating.

01:03:19.000 That's what it is.

01:03:20.000 It is 100% sanctioned legal cheating.

01:03:24.000 It's more than fasting.

01:03:25.000 They use very sophisticated methods.

01:03:29.000 This guy, Sugar Sean O'Malley, who just won the Bantamweight title, Dan Gardner is his nutritionist, and I was actually just going back and forth with him on Instagram because I watched one of the videos that he did, and I was like, that is really impressive stuff.

01:03:46.000 Dan Gardner is, what is his profile here?

01:03:51.000 I think it's Dan Gardner Nutrition.

01:03:56.000 G-A-R-N-E-R. They're detailing how they cut weight. 1.00

01:04:03.000 One of the things they do is they eliminate carbs very close out.

01:04:07.000 They do all these different things to water load, so your body gets used to dumping water out a lot.

01:04:13.000 It's very sophisticated.

01:04:15.000 When a guy weighs in, In this case, Sugar Sean weighted at 135 pounds.

01:04:20.000 He's 135 pounds for all of like an hour or so.

01:04:24.000 And then he weighs in, and when he fights, he'll be in the 150s.

01:04:27.000 He'll be somewhere in the 150s.

01:04:29.000 And that's mild.

01:04:30.000 His opponent, Aljamain Sterling, is absolutely massive for the weight class.

01:04:34.000 So Aljamain, even though he weighs in at 135 pounds, he's walking around.

01:04:39.000 I've seen him walking around in the 170s.

01:04:41.000 Wow, 135 is my birth weight.

01:04:43.000 Well, he's not that small.

01:04:45.000 When you stand next to him, show an image of me standing next to him when I was interviewing him. 0.99

01:04:51.000 He's fucking shredded. 0.98

01:04:53.000 There's no way that guy's 135 pounds. 0.99

01:04:56.000 I mean, a 135-pound person is a fairly small man. 1.00

01:04:58.000 This guy's fucking jacked. 0.99

01:05:01.000 And so it's a magic trick. 1.00

01:05:03.000 The best at it is this guy, Alex Pajeda.

01:05:06.000 Alex Pajeda, who was the middleweight champion, he weighs in at 185 pounds.

01:05:11.000 He fights at 220 plus.

01:05:14.000 He's so massive.

01:05:16.000 Like, you cannot believe...

01:05:20.000 Okay, so that's him on the weigh-in day.

01:05:24.000 Okay, it's not him weighing in, though.

01:05:26.000 So he's significantly rehydrated by that point.

01:05:29.000 Is there an image of me interviewing him at the post-fight?

01:05:33.000 Is there a technique to put on weight health, like, safely before a fight?

01:05:37.000 Like, you're just drinking, electrolytes?

01:05:39.000 It's not safe.

01:05:39.000 It's not.

01:05:39.000 It's not safe.

01:05:40.000 Are you saying these guys are compromising their lifespan?

01:05:42.000 Yes, 100%.

01:05:43.000 It's very bad for your organs.

01:05:44.000 It's very bad for your body.

01:05:45.000 But, okay, so that's him.

01:05:47.000 So look at that.

01:05:47.000 Oh, man.

01:05:48.000 That's 135 pounds. 1.00

01:05:49.000 How the fuck? 0.99

01:05:50.000 I weigh 200. So look at me next to him. 1.00

01:05:53.000 He's fucking gigantic. 0.97

01:05:55.000 And I think he's, if not the best weight cutter in the sport, him and Pajeda, they're in the running for it. 0.98

01:06:01.000 Because Pajeda, now show Alex Pajeda. 0.99

01:06:04.000 This fucking guy. 1.00

01:06:05.000 This guy. 1.00

01:06:06.000 You can't...

01:06:07.000 When he weighs in, I don't see the actual weigh-in.

01:06:11.000 I go there for the ceremonial weigh-ins.

01:06:12.000 And he's already put on probably 10 pounds of water by a time.

01:06:15.000 So he'll weigh in first thing in the morning.

01:06:17.000 And then by the time...

01:06:18.000 That's him right there.

01:06:19.000 Click on that link right there with me standing next to him.

01:06:22.000 The one that you just had with his flexing upper right-hand corner of those yeah that that one so that's him weighing in and these his cheeks are sucked in and he'll gain literally 40 pounds almost Between them and Fight Night. 0.96

01:06:39.000 It's fucking bananas. 0.89

01:06:40.000 They did a study, I think in the 80s, with Olympic hopefuls, and they said, they made the following test of sprinters. 0.99

01:06:47.000 They said, would you trade the following, a gold medal, guaranteed gold medal at the next games, if it meant you'd die at age 35?

01:06:56.000 They all say yes.

01:06:57.000 They all say, like half of them said yes. 0.99

01:06:59.000 The other ones are losers. 0.97

01:07:01.000 But I've thought... 0.99

01:07:02.000 I thought about it in the context of the Nobel Prize.

01:07:05.000 You know, it's like, how many scientists, you know, have these things?

01:07:09.000 Because what are these, Joe?

01:07:10.000 These are, we call them, like, we don't think about idol worship.

01:07:14.000 Like, have you ever been tempted to bow down to an idol, Joe?

01:07:17.000 Not recently.

01:07:18.000 No.

01:07:18.000 We have different idols, right?

01:07:20.000 There's different things that we aspire to.

01:07:22.000 But even people that aren't, like, in the religious sect, that think of themselves as atheists, let alone agnostic, but are atheists.

01:07:30.000 They all have religions.

01:07:31.000 Right.

01:07:31.000 And I think for some of these guys, yeah, I mean, if it's sacrificing your lifespan, your healthspan, whatever Peter or Tia would talk about, what's it worth?

01:07:41.000 I mean, is that high worth it, like, to be champion for a day?

01:07:45.000 Right.

01:07:45.000 Like, can you name, like, an Olympic sprinter from the 1980s, you know, besides, like, Flojo and...

01:07:51.000 I mean, there are a couple, but I don't think she said that she would trade it.

01:07:53.000 But, I mean, it's so transitory, and it's so applicable only to the small cadre of people within your technical network.

01:08:01.000 Like, you can't probably name more.

01:08:04.000 You've had a couple Nobel Prize winners on the show.

01:08:07.000 But can you name more?

01:08:08.000 No, because you're not.

01:08:08.000 I can name every one.

01:08:09.000 I'm just like, I could name Ben Rose.

01:08:11.000 That's what I'm saying, yeah.

01:08:13.000 But you're also amongst the very few people that get to interview people like him on a daily basis.

01:08:18.000 Yeah, it's a god to them.

01:08:20.000 It's this thing that very few people achieve.

01:08:24.000 So when you get this, when you win, I mean, I won a Nobel Prize.

01:08:26.000 I mean, my book is called Losing the Nobel Prize, my first book.

01:08:29.000 And, spoiler alert, you know, I didn't win the Nobel Prize.

01:08:32.000 Is this what it looks like?

01:08:34.000 That's a chocolate replica.

01:08:36.000 Yeah, I know you won't eat that, and I hope you don't.

01:08:38.000 I'll eat it.

01:08:38.000 Well, it's 15 years old, Joe, be careful.

01:08:40.000 Why?

01:08:40.000 You think it's bad?

01:08:41.000 What happens to chocolate?

01:08:42.000 Would you eat it?

01:08:43.000 Try it.

01:08:43.000 It would be a shame if I ate it because it's old.

01:08:45.000 Isn't that interesting?

01:08:46.000 Like, if you found old candy and it's still edible, like, why'd you eat it?

01:08:49.000 It's from the 1800s. 1.00

01:08:51.000 Who wants this fucking candy? 1.00

01:08:52.000 Honey lasts forever, right? 1.00

01:08:53.000 Right, it does.

01:08:53.000 You can study honey in the Egyptian furnace too.

01:08:55.000 Isn't that bizarre?

01:08:56.000 It's wild.

01:08:57.000 That's the only substance that's made by an insect.

01:09:01.000 Which is, you're not allowed to eat insects and kosher. 0.86

01:09:04.000 Jewish people aren't allowed to eat it.

01:09:05.000 But it's something made by a non-kosher animal that you're allowed to eat. 0.82

01:09:09.000 So it's kosher.

01:09:10.000 We can eat honey even though it's made from a...

01:09:12.000 Like you can't drink pig's milk because it's made from a pig.

01:09:15.000 Right.

01:09:16.000 But look at this thing.

01:09:17.000 So the second commandment talks about not making graven images.

01:09:22.000 Or maybe it's the third...

01:09:23.000 When you win a Nobel Prize, so my very close friend and mentor, Barry Barish, he won the 2017 Nobel Prize for discovering gravitational weight.

01:09:31.000 He'd be an amazing guest for you, by the way, if I can have the temerity to even make such suggestions.

01:09:36.000 But he invented or co-invented the LIGO experiment, which was this experiment.

01:09:40.000 One branch of it's in Louisiana and one's in Washington State.

01:09:45.000 1.2 billion years ago, in a galaxy we have no idea where it is to this day, two black holes were orbiting around each other, just like Roger Penrose had predicted, and they came together, and each one was about 30 times, one was 30 times the mass of the Sun,

01:10:01.000 one was 32 times the mass of the Sun.

01:10:03.000 They combined.

01:10:04.000 They made a giant black hole, even bigger, but it only had the mass of, say, 60 times the mass of the Sun.

01:10:11.000 So like two masses worth of the Sun vanished.

01:10:14.000 And it didn't produce light because they're black holes.

01:10:17.000 And the energy supplied by them did not go anywhere else except into making what are called gravitational waves.

01:10:24.000 Waves in the fabric of space-time, such that if one were coming through this room right now, I mean, you couldn't notice it, but technically it would make your weight go up and down, like these guys on the weigh-in would love it.

01:10:35.000 It would make it go up and down, except it would take, you know, a couple hundred days for it to even change by a billionth of a percent.

01:10:41.000 But it changes your physical manifestation of gravity.

01:10:45.000 It gives you anti-gravity for a second, and then many seconds, and then the longer it makes you heavier, lighter.

01:10:50.000 That's what a wave of gravity is.

01:10:52.000 It's distorting the feel and force of gravity.

01:10:55.000 Well, these two black holes coalesced, and one or two sun's masses of these black holes was converted into shaking up spacetime itself.

01:11:07.000 Wow.

01:11:08.000 Then these waves of gravity propagated from somewhere.

01:11:11.000 We don't know exactly where in the universe it was.

01:11:13.000 They came to the Earth.

01:11:14.000 It took 1.2 billion years to get to the Earth.

01:11:17.000 One instrument in Hanford, Washington state, and one instrument in Louisiana.

01:11:23.000 They registered the same event, the same exact signal, but separated by the speed of light divided into the distance.

01:11:31.000 In other words, these waves of gravity were traveling at the speed of light.

01:11:34.000 Shaking up and exactly consistent with the merger of two smaller black holes into one enormous black hole.

01:11:40.000 Okay, so when Barry and his team, Ray Weiss and Kip Thorne, they won the Nobel Prize for this.

01:11:45.000 I interviewed 15 Nobel – on Thursday I'm interviewing my 15th Nobel Prize winner.

01:11:50.000 But I've interviewed 14 of them so far on my podcast.

01:11:54.000 And we all – at the end of each podcast, I always ask them the same question.

01:11:58.000 It's related to the name of the podcast.

01:12:00.000 It's called Into the Impossible.

01:12:02.000 It's a quote from Sir Arthur C. Clarke.

01:12:04.000 Arthur C. Clarke said, the only way of determining the limits of what's possible is to go beyond it into the impossible.

01:12:10.000 So I always say that to each guest.

01:12:11.000 I say at the end, it's kind of like my wrap-up, you know, what advice would you give yourself as a 20-year-old to give you the courage to do as you've done to go into the impossible?

01:12:19.000 And I asked Barry Bauer.

01:12:21.000 She's 80 years old.

01:12:21.000 I said, Barry, what would you do?

01:12:23.000 He said, I would make sure to tell my 20-year-old self to get over the imposter syndrome because I still haven't gotten over it.

01:12:32.000 I said, what the hell are you talking about? 0.99

01:12:33.000 You won the freaking Nobel Prize. 0.98

01:12:37.000 There's more people in the NBA right now, Joe, that won the Nobel Prize in Physics that are alive. 0.95

01:12:42.000 It's a very small group of people.

01:12:44.000 At most, three people can win it every year.

01:12:46.000 They typically win it when they're in the 70s and 80s, so their life expectancy isn't super long.

01:12:51.000 Sir Roger's 92 now.

01:12:52.000 But when you win it, I said, how could you possibly have the imposter syndrome, this fear of inadequacy, that you don't belong where you're at, that you don't deserve the accolades that you've had?

01:13:03.000 You won it.

01:13:04.000 It was selected by 400 nerds in Sweden that said you were good enough to win the Nobel Prize.

01:13:09.000 He said, no, Brian, when you win a Nobel Prize, you get the golden medal.

01:13:13.000 Like Flavor Flav, you know, you put it on.

01:13:15.000 And you get the million dollars or your portion of the million dollar purse.

01:13:20.000 But they also want to make sure that you receive it.

01:13:23.000 You're not going to come back later and say, where's my Nobel Prize?

01:13:25.000 So they make you sign a ledger.

01:13:28.000 They make you sign, like, remember those old-fashioned autograph books?

01:13:32.000 And they make you sign it.

01:13:33.000 And he said, Barry told me, he said, I'm a curious guy, so what do I do?

01:13:37.000 I look, you know, who won it last year?

01:13:39.000 I saw some of my friends and advisors maybe.

01:13:41.000 Richard Feynman, wow, that's pretty cool.

01:13:43.000 Marie Curie, Albert Einstein.

01:13:45.000 His actual signature in this book.

01:13:48.000 Because it's only been around for 116 years or something like that.

01:13:52.000 So, you know, it goes back to Einstein and he won in 1922. When he saw Einstein, he said, I am not worthy.

01:14:00.000 I'm just some humble kid from Nebraska.

01:14:02.000 I don't belong here.

01:14:04.000 How could I possibly be in the same book as Albert Einstein?

01:14:07.000 And I said, Barry, I've got good news and I've got good news.

01:14:12.000 I said, did you know that Albert Einstein felt the imposter syndrome?

01:14:16.000 He's like, you're kidding me.

01:14:17.000 How could that possibly be?

01:14:19.000 I said, no, Barry, he did.

01:14:21.000 I looked up this quote and I showed it to him.

01:14:23.000 I said, Albert Einstein called Isaac Newton not only the greatest scientist in history, but the man who single-handedly changed Western civilization more than any other person through the principia and the study of natural determinism and laws.

01:14:39.000 And I said, but wait, there's more.

01:14:41.000 I said, Newton had the imposter syndrome.

01:14:44.000 He said, you're kidding me, Newton. 0.99

01:14:46.000 Because Newton was kind of a prick. 0.97

01:14:48.000 Newton had a huge ego. 0.97

01:14:49.000 He was not kind to his friends.

01:14:51.000 He tortured people as the master of the mint, or he had them tortured.

01:14:55.000 Tortured people?

01:14:55.000 Yeah.

01:14:56.000 Physically tortured people?

01:14:57.000 Yeah.

01:14:58.000 Not him.

01:14:59.000 Push that microphone so it's in your face.

01:15:01.000 Okay, yeah.

01:15:02.000 There you go, like that.

01:15:02.000 He tortured people?

01:15:05.000 He was responsible for the equivalent of the IRS in England.

01:15:12.000 So people would cheat.

01:15:14.000 They would scrape down pennies.

01:15:15.000 Oh, that's right.

01:15:16.000 I read this.

01:15:16.000 He was the master of the mint, it was called.

01:15:18.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:15:19.000 I forgot about this.

01:15:20.000 He was also an alchemist. 0.99

01:15:21.000 He was an amazing guy, but he was kind of a prick. 0.99

01:15:23.000 And he had imposter syndrome as well. 0.98

01:15:25.000 So he had imposter syndrome.

01:15:26.000 Who could he have imposter syndrome about?

01:15:28.000 You might wonder.

01:15:29.000 And if you read his writings, do you know what Isaac Newton, the creator of calculus, the first person to understand universal gravitation, discovered laws of optics.

01:15:38.000 Do you know what his biggest accomplishment, according to him, was?

01:15:43.000 What?

01:15:43.000 He died a virgin.

01:15:45.000 Yeah, that was a weird one, right?

01:15:46.000 Yeah, I was gonna bring that up.

01:15:48.000 He was celibate.

01:15:48.000 You know why?

01:15:49.000 Why?

01:15:50.000 Because there's only one way that he could emulate his hero.

01:15:54.000 His, the person before whom he felt the imposter syndrome.

01:15:59.000 And who was that?

01:16:00.000 That was Jesus Christ.

01:16:01.000 Oh boy.

01:16:02.000 So he wanted to be Christ-like.

01:16:04.000 He wanted to emulate Christ.

01:16:06.000 And the only way he could do it, he couldn't, like, fast or, I don't know, he couldn't walk on water, he couldn't turn water into wine, he couldn't turn loaves into fishes or whatever Jesus also did.

01:16:15.000 But he could die celibate.

01:16:17.000 And that's who he had imposter syndrome in there.

01:16:19.000 But the lesson is...

01:16:20.000 Is this from his writing that he spoke of this?

01:16:23.000 Yeah.

01:16:23.000 Are you sure he just didn't...

01:16:24.000 It was like an excuse for he didn't like sex?

01:16:26.000 I don't know. 0.98

01:16:27.000 I mean, it sounds nutty.

01:16:29.000 How do you figure that out when you're like 14, 15 years old?

01:16:33.000 You know, you're young and full of hormones and you've made this decision to be like Jesus?

01:16:38.000 Yeah.

01:16:38.000 Yeah, no, he was a strange guy.

01:16:41.000 He sounds insane.

01:16:42.000 He definitely was.

01:16:43.000 He was not like Galileo.

01:16:44.000 You would want to hang out with Galileo.

01:16:45.000 I'd really want to hang out with him, too, for a little bit, just to see what it's like.

01:16:50.000 So when you win the Nobel Prize, you go there, and what is the commandment about idol worship?

01:16:55.000 It's that you shall make no gilded, golden, graven, like engraved, images.

01:17:01.000 So who is that?

01:17:02.000 Do you know who that is?

01:17:03.000 Albert Noble.

01:17:04.000 Albert Noble.

01:17:04.000 Yeah, it's Alfred Nobel.

01:17:05.000 That's right.

01:17:05.000 And, you know, he invented dynamite.

01:17:07.000 And he also died.

01:17:09.000 He died never having been married.

01:17:11.000 I don't know if he was celibate.

01:17:12.000 Holla.

01:17:13.000 So he was never married.

01:17:15.000 But he established this prize.

01:17:17.000 When you win it, you literally, the king of Sweden comes up to you and you must bow down to him.

01:17:22.000 And he puts the gilded graven image on your head.

01:17:25.000 So for all the trappings and all the 90% of National Academy members who do not believe, actively profess a belief in God, this can become, at some level, a religion.

01:17:35.000 And it's a kosher one. 0.90

01:17:36.000 It's okay to worship this, right?

01:17:38.000 Well, the unattainable that's maybe perhaps attainable to a very select few is always the thing that people are chasing after, especially like high achievers.

01:17:48.000 That's right.

01:17:48.000 But many, many that I know that get there do have imposter syndrome, including MMA world champions.

01:17:55.000 Like some of them, they get there like, this isn't real.

01:17:57.000 This can't be real.

01:17:58.000 I can't be the man.

01:17:59.000 Because they've set this up their whole life.

01:18:01.000 Yes.

01:18:02.000 Look, you can get to the promised land, but you can't stay in it.

01:18:05.000 How many baseball teams have won the World Series year after year forever?

01:18:09.000 I mean, even the Yankees haven't done that.

01:18:11.000 Even your Bo Sox haven't done that, right? 0.99

01:18:12.000 They're not mine.

01:18:13.000 Okay, fine.

01:18:15.000 But for me as a young kid, this is what I aspire to.

01:18:18.000 And actually as an adult, I wanted to win this.

01:18:21.000 Basically at all costs.

01:18:22.000 This became my...

01:18:24.000 But it was acceptable because people told me, you know, like, if you discover these waves of gravity manifest in the cosmic background radiation that I study, you're guaranteed to win the Nobel Prize.

01:18:35.000 And for me, it was...

01:18:37.000 I don't know about you with your, you know, relations with your father, but I had a very difficult relationship with my father.

01:18:44.000 And in it, it was really predicated the way that some kids would like get into fights or, you know, with their father or maybe they would try to be a better football player than their dad or whatever.

01:18:54.000 My father was a great scientist and mathematician.

01:18:57.000 And the one thing, the one prize he never won was a Nobel Prize.

01:19:02.000 And so after he abandoned us, this became kind of the way that I could supersede him.

01:19:07.000 And it became an obsession to me, as well as being scientifically interesting to be a part of, there are very few projects that are eligible to win a Nobel Prize, let alone that can win it.

01:19:17.000 But for me, it was kind of an added dimension that came with it.

01:19:20.000 And that was, you know, a normal kid might have it with sports and their dad or maybe the other way around.

01:19:26.000 When you're a dad, you might treat your kids like that.

01:19:29.000 Like, oh, you think you could take me on or whatever.

01:19:32.000 And so for that, that was the main source of driving impetus for my personal quest to get this particular idol in my life.

01:19:40.000 That's wild.

01:19:42.000 Are you aware of Ronald Mallet?

01:19:45.000 Do you know who he is?

01:19:46.000 No.

01:19:46.000 He is, I believe he's out of the University of Connecticut.

01:19:51.000 He studies time travel and he became obsessed with time travel after his father died when he was a young boy because he felt like if he worked hard enough he could develop a time machine and go back and save his father.

01:20:05.000 It's literally a Spider-Man origin story.

01:20:08.000 This guy has been dedicated his life to finding a working model of a time machine.

01:20:15.000 And I think, was it Kurt Godel?

01:20:18.000 How do you say his name?

01:20:20.000 It's that weird umlaat.

01:20:23.000 How do you say it?

01:20:24.000 What's the word?

01:20:25.000 Girdle.

01:20:26.000 Girdle.

01:20:26.000 It's like people that say Van Gogh.

01:20:28.000 And now it's really Van Gogh.

01:20:30.000 Excuse you.

01:20:33.000 But he developed a working model, but it just required something like the size of the solar system.

01:20:39.000 No, you're right.

01:20:40.000 I don't know how you know that.

01:20:41.000 But yeah, he had a spiraling, he had a rotating cosmos where you could have what are called world lines.

01:20:45.000 You could have your Just like you could walk around the surface of the Earth, and if you go in the same direction, eventually you'll come back to where you started.

01:20:51.000 If the universe was somehow rotating in the way that he envisioned it, you could have it end up on a time start where you began in the beginning.

01:20:59.000 Yeah, see that traveler's lifelike, time-like curve.

01:21:03.000 Wild.

01:21:03.000 Gödel's interesting because he and Einstein were buddies back at the Institute for Advanced Study.

01:21:09.000 I don't know if you saw Oppenheimer.

01:21:11.000 I haven't seen it yet.

01:21:11.000 You should see it.

01:21:12.000 I don't go to the movies.

01:21:13.000 I do go to the movies.

01:21:14.000 I saw Barbie.

01:21:18.000 My girls are not old enough to drive you there. 1.00

01:21:20.000 It's fun!

01:21:21.000 My friend Ben Shapiro, your former guest, hated it.

01:21:24.000 I don't understand Ben.

01:21:26.000 He needs to have a sit down with me about this.

01:21:28.000 He needs to chill out about that. 0.99

01:21:30.000 Everything's a goddamn culture war. 0.99

01:21:32.000 I know. 0.99

01:21:32.000 That's what I love about astronomy. 0.99

01:21:34.000 No one ever freaking wakes up and says, see that comet over there?

01:21:42.000 You're studying things that are so immense and so spectacular that it makes all this stuff seem like nonsense.

01:21:51.000 This stuff that people fill their days up with complaining about. 1.00

01:21:54.000 A fucking Barbie movie. 1.00

01:21:56.000 Jesus Christ. 1.00

01:21:58.000 I mean, that would be like someone who's a pacifist reviewing the Ultimate Finding Championship.

01:22:05.000 Exactly.

01:22:06.000 And saying they hit each other too much.

01:22:07.000 Like, that's what it's for.

01:22:09.000 There's a joke about Einstein goes to heaven, and somebody comes up to him and says, Oh, you're Albert Einstein.

01:22:15.000 You know, you're great.

01:22:16.000 I can't wait to talk to you.

01:22:17.000 And Einstein says, First, you must tell me your IQ. And the guy goes, I have 140 IQ. Oh, we could talk about the math and string theory and this and that.

01:22:26.000 And then another guy comes up, what's your IQ? It's 130. Oh, we can talk about the stock market, and we can talk about all these financial...

01:22:35.000 And then someone comes up, I have 100 IQ. We can talk about culture wars.

01:22:43.000 I think it's more of a tribal thing than anything with us.

01:22:47.000 I think what's going on is just something that's like written into the human reward system.

01:22:53.000 That there's a lot of social value in being part of a tribe.

01:22:57.000 There's a lot of social value in being part of a committed ideology, whether it's a religion or a cult or politics.

01:23:05.000 Well, that's what's impressive.

01:23:06.000 I mean, you know, not to be too overbearingly praiseworthy, but, you know, there's a Yiddish saying, if you stand in the middle of the road, you get hit from both sides of the street.

01:23:14.000 But you seem to, like, defy that.

01:23:16.000 You know, and it's always interesting to me.

01:23:18.000 If I talk to somebody, I talk to Noam Chomsky.

01:23:21.000 I personally hate his politics or whatever.

01:23:23.000 But if I'm talking about linguistics and aliens and communication, you know, I'll talk to them.

01:23:28.000 But, you know, or I talk to Ben Shapiro.

01:23:30.000 People just go, well, how could you possibly platform him?

01:23:33.000 Ben doesn't need Brian Keating's help to platform him.

01:23:35.000 That talk is nonsense.

01:23:37.000 There's only one way to find the holes in someone.

01:23:39.000 I mean, how many revealing interviews have you seen where people were supposedly platformed?

01:23:44.000 And in those conversations, you reveal, like, the way that they look at the world is very flawed.

01:23:49.000 It's very easily pick a partable.

01:23:51.000 You could just like go through it and say, well, this is illogical.

01:23:54.000 This doesn't fit in with your whole philosophy of freedom.

01:23:58.000 Like there's so many things that are inconsistent with the way you view this one thing.

01:24:02.000 Like why do you view this one thing this way?

01:24:04.000 I think the human mind hates ambiguity, right?

01:24:07.000 Like, no one would say, like, you can abort a five-year-old.

01:24:11.000 I mean, I hope so.

01:24:12.000 There are people.

01:24:13.000 There's a guy in print.

01:24:14.000 Anyway, I don't want to get into it.

01:24:15.000 I'm sure there's a few persons out there.

01:24:16.000 You know, my dad used to say when I was 30. He's like, I believe in abortion up until the 33rd trimester.

01:24:24.000 But, you know, but on the other hand, you know, no one say, like, you know, before the parents meet, like, you can't have it.

01:24:30.000 Like, it doesn't make sense, right?

01:24:31.000 So there's clear-cut benefits to being polarized because it simplifies it, gives you a hack, an algorithm.

01:24:38.000 Like, I can easily say, well, you should not have an abortion. 0.94

01:24:41.000 So, therefore, I must be in the people that say you should never have an abortion.

01:24:43.000 Or, like, gun control.

01:24:44.000 Like, should you have, like, an AK-47?

01:24:46.000 Maybe.

01:24:47.000 Should you have a tow, a tank-operated weapon?

01:24:49.000 Probably not.

01:24:49.000 Should you have a little boy?

01:24:51.000 Well, you have a little boy.

01:24:53.000 It's not of that kind, right?

01:24:54.000 They're not that explosive.

01:24:55.000 But it's because human beings hate these Schrodinger kind of ambiguities.

01:25:00.000 They just hate them.

01:25:01.000 And so they must cleave to the direction that they understand.

01:25:04.000 Yeah, it's a very unfortunate thing that doesn't get taught out of people.

01:25:08.000 Instead of that, we teach them to subscribe to whatever ideology the teacher is promoting.

01:25:15.000 And I think that's a real issue with people.

01:25:18.000 We need to give people the space.

01:25:22.000 To figure out things for themselves and decide how they view all these different subjects, not have this predetermined group of questions and answers that they're a part of the ideology.

01:25:39.000 You must subscribe to them wholeheartedly, wholesale.

01:25:41.000 Trevor Burrus And even by you, like apparently – so Lex mentioned that Andrew Huberman's Wikipedia page because you platformed – I'm like, the guy is a Kennedy.

01:25:51.000 OK? First of all, he's a Democrat.

01:25:53.000 Trevor Burrus Well, this is all that happened.

01:25:55.000 Andrew Huberman commented on a post that I made about Robert Kennedy Jr. He said, I think this is great.

01:26:01.000 I hope more presidential candidates do long form podcasts.

01:26:04.000 That's it.

01:26:05.000 So Wikipedia removed the research section of his page.

01:26:10.000 He's got 70 published papers.

01:26:15.000 He's very well respected.

01:26:17.000 And they removed that because they had decided that they were going to...

01:26:21.000 I don't know what their thought process was, what their motivation was, but it appears that what they're doing is punishing him for what he said by labeling him in a very...

01:26:30.000 They're maligning him in multiple different ways.

01:26:33.000 I thought about saying, like, well, you know who else Joe Rogan had on this guy named Peter Hotez?

01:26:37.000 Yeah, well, I try to have a lot of people on.

01:26:40.000 There's nothing wrong with having a guy who's running for president on a podcast to discuss things.

01:26:46.000 Like, what are you talking about?

01:26:48.000 It's nonsense.

01:26:49.000 And the way they did that to Huberman when he was just saying that he hopes more presidential candidates do long-form podcasts.

01:26:59.000 You can't do that. 0.99

01:27:01.000 That's like tyrants do shit like that. 1.00

01:27:04.000 That's horrible. 0.99

01:27:05.000 If I could, you know, indulge your, you know, forbearance, you know, because how often do I – it's the first time I ever met you.

01:27:11.000 But trying to study, you know, how to be a better podcaster, to be better at my, you know, microscopic emulation, right?

01:27:18.000 So I have on all different types of people.

01:27:20.000 But sometimes I have on people.

01:27:21.000 And look, I'm a scientist.

01:27:23.000 I'm not a podcaster.

01:27:24.000 I'm a tenured professor of physics at a major university.

01:27:27.000 So it's not my data. 0.71

01:27:28.000 But nevertheless, I feel like I owe it to people to translate what my fellow scientists are doing into layman's terms that they can understand because they pay our freaking salary.

01:27:37.000 Trevor Burrus It's very valuable what you do.

01:27:38.000 It's very valuable.

01:27:40.000 It means it's so important to have people do exactly what you just described.

01:27:44.000 Translate it to people that are not going to study it in any other way and it's a very consumable way.

01:27:48.000 I get pushed back.

01:27:49.000 Pretty digestible.

01:27:49.000 I said – like yesterday or a couple of days I said on Twitter, I said, why is it that science – that there are science popularizers?

01:27:56.000 Like we don't have like UFC popularizers.

01:27:59.000 We don't have movie popularizers.

01:28:01.000 We don't have TikTok popularizers.

01:28:03.000 But we have this whole class of people called science popularizers.

01:28:07.000 I've talked to Neil deGrasse Tyson, Mitch York.

01:28:09.000 I've talked to these people.

01:28:10.000 It's fine.

01:28:10.000 Maybe – and I do it at some level.

01:28:12.000 Brian Cox, Brian Greene.

01:28:13.000 I'm the third Brian to come on the podcast, as far as I know.

01:28:17.000 But the thing is, we as scientists have been given this incredible script, the script of nature or of God, if you will.

01:28:25.000 We have this incredible present.

01:28:28.000 And we are so bad at communicating what we do.

01:28:32.000 And worse than that, we don't feel like it's our obligation.

01:28:36.000 I always joke, and maybe it's not even a joke.

01:28:39.000 Scientists have a moral obligation to communicate what they do to the people that fund them, but they also have, you know, just common sense.

01:28:46.000 If the public gets turned off to science because the scientists say, ah, I am too specialized for you, Joe.

01:28:53.000 I can't break it down for an everyman to understand.

01:28:55.000 What I do is very—I should stay in the lab because we need people that just stay in the lab and don't get—you know, I always joke, like, how do you know a scientist is outgoing?

01:29:03.000 Have you ever heard this one?

01:29:04.000 No.

01:29:04.000 They look at your shoes when they talk to you.

01:29:09.000 That's very funny.

01:29:10.000 But if I don't teach my students these things, if I don't teach them, look, part of the soft skills that will get you farther in life and all the Nobel laureates that I've talked to, they all have that in common.

01:29:19.000 They're not just awesome and the top elite killers of science, Joe.

01:29:24.000 They're incredible communicators, persuaders, salesmen, saleswomen.

01:29:28.000 Because you don't just make a great idea and everyone accepts it.

01:29:31.000 You have to convince people, editors, peer reviewers, funding agencies, and you're in a complex battle against the world's other killers.

01:29:40.000 And what if you're just a little bit better than them?

01:29:43.000 Because you have learned that it's important for you to communicate to your bosses, to your funding agents, such that we don't have this elite that the general public can't understand.

01:29:53.000 So they just defer to whichever way the wind's blowing, and we have what we've had for the last few years.

01:29:58.000 Well, don't you think that...

01:30:00.000 I mean, the reason why you have so many science influencers or science educators is because science is way more complicated than all those other things.

01:30:08.000 I don't know.

01:30:09.000 Is it?

01:30:09.000 Yeah.

01:30:10.000 Of course it is.

01:30:11.000 It is and isn't.

01:30:12.000 It is and isn't?

01:30:14.000 Do you know the difference?

01:30:15.000 I don't want to say it like that.

01:30:16.000 I'm going to say there's a difference between complex and complicated.

01:30:20.000 Okay.

01:30:20.000 So a complicated thing is building a 787 Dreamliner.

01:30:24.000 That's freaking complicated.

01:30:26.000 There's over 700 million parts to it.

01:30:29.000 There's a supply chain.

01:30:30.000 F that.

01:30:32.000 People don't know how to build a pencil.

01:30:34.000 There's no one person that knows how to get the graphite and the wood and the eraser and the metal and the paint.

01:30:40.000 There's no one person.

01:30:42.000 Something as simple as a pencil could be considered complicated.

01:30:45.000 But complicated means if you follow it, my PhD thesis, if you follow it, you will build a polarimeter that's capable of measuring the cosmic microwave background's polarization.

01:30:55.000 It's just linear steps.

01:30:57.000 There's complexity.

01:30:58.000 Like if you try to make a sand pile and have exactly the same number of grains of sand, or if you want to have this particular thunderstorm that's brewing in the plains of Austin, Texas tonight, that is a complex system.

01:31:11.000 That is a system that is not capable of being described by a finite number of steps.

01:31:15.000 It may have properties.

01:31:16.000 It may have phases.

01:31:17.000 It may have building phase, dissipating phase, hail, whatever.

01:31:21.000 And it may have commonalities, but like the butterfly effect, the flapping of the wind, you cannot replicate the sensitivity to the initial conditions that then lead to a complex event.

01:31:31.000 Science can be both complicated and complex, but there's no way around this.

01:31:37.000 If you can't explain it to somebody who is not an expert, you've failed at a certain level.

01:31:43.000 Because just imagine if you were working, like, do you think it's complicated to be an accountant at a top 10 accounting firm?

01:31:51.000 Of course.

01:31:51.000 Yeah.

01:31:51.000 So imagine your boss, the CFO of that company, comes and says, hey, Joe Rogan, what you been working on?

01:31:57.000 He says, what I've been working on is very complicated.

01:32:00.000 Yeah.

01:32:01.000 It's very sophisticated.

01:32:02.000 It's very complex.

01:32:04.000 You won't understand it.

01:32:05.000 That's the implication.

01:32:06.000 You're insulting the person.

01:32:08.000 I'm insulting the general public.

01:32:10.000 If I say, I can't explain to you why this is the freaking absolute coolest thing in the world to do, and if you didn't pay me, or Gavin Newsom, my boss, your former governor, if he didn't pay me to do it, Joe, I would do it for free.

01:32:23.000 In other words, we are so animated by it, but why don't we do it?

01:32:27.000 Because, actually, it's the converse of what you said.

01:32:30.000 Communicating to the public is hard to scientists.

01:32:32.000 It's not the science that's hard to do.

01:32:34.000 It's to learn how to distill it and teach it.

01:32:37.000 I've had over 2,000 students in my career.

01:32:39.000 I don't think I'm the best teacher, but I think I can do a good job enough to take somebody who was a layperson, and now they're an expert, and now they're teaching down the street from you here, and they're much better and smarter than I am.

01:32:51.000 How did that happen?

01:32:53.000 I didn't dedicate some time to it.

01:32:54.000 But what scientists will say is, no, I want to study wormholes, and it's not really that important.

01:33:00.000 That's the subtext.

01:33:01.000 With Neil deGrasse Tyson, it's not that important.

01:33:04.000 What he's doing, he can't do real—this is the rap.

01:33:07.000 I'm not saying I believe this, but this is the rap.

01:33:09.000 He is not a real scientist.

01:33:11.000 He won't say—he's not doing research.

01:33:13.000 He doesn't have students.

01:33:14.000 But he's not really a scientist the way that I, Brian Keating, am a scientist.

01:33:19.000 Because he's not actively in the trenches.

01:33:21.000 Because if he were, he wouldn't have time to go out.

01:33:23.000 That's BS. I'm sorry.

01:33:25.000 That's BS. Well, what I meant is that it's complicated to do in terms of expressing that to people.

01:33:33.000 And there's so many things to cover.

01:33:34.000 There's so many things.

01:33:35.000 And you also have to captivate people's attentions.

01:33:38.000 I mean, I don't think it's...

01:33:40.000 And there's also various...

01:33:42.000 I mean try explaining string theory to regular people.

01:33:46.000 You can do it.

01:34:01.000 Well, that's a bias called the expert effect.

01:34:04.000 Like, you're so smart, you just don't realize what it was like.

01:34:06.000 You can do things in the gym, I'm sure, like you don't even know that you're doing them, but to teach it to me would be impossible, right?

01:34:11.000 Because it's just like encoded viscerally into your DNA by this point.

01:34:15.000 I think I can teach you.

01:34:17.000 You can teach?

01:34:17.000 Yeah.

01:34:18.000 If your body moves normal, I can teach you.

01:34:21.000 I guess the thing is, people say, well, no, that's really not my skill set to teach in that sense.

01:34:25.000 By the way, I mean, half of our jobs as professors is supposed to be to teach, not just to raise money and do research, right?

01:34:32.000 So, like, you'd think, well, you're a professor.

01:34:34.000 You are a science communicator, at least to a small class. 0.97

01:34:37.000 Basically, and if you take your job seriously and you're not a schmuck and you think that I have integrity...

01:34:43.000 I'm going to learn how to do that beyond because what would happen if the public cut off science? 0.93

01:34:48.000 If they said, look what happened in the last couple of years.

01:34:50.000 We don't know who to believe.

01:34:51.000 We don't know where is the ground truth.

01:34:53.000 Who do we believe?

01:34:54.000 I hear RFK. So we're going to defund science.

01:34:56.000 Yeah.

01:34:56.000 We're going to defund science.

01:34:57.000 So you're unemployed.

01:34:58.000 By the way, I only have the job I have now and not like building some weapon because we're not at war.

01:35:03.000 I think it was 60 years ago in Oppenheim, and you'll watch it, you know, like they took the killers of science, and they were all in the desert in Los Alamos, and they were squirreled away, and they didn't tell anybody.

01:35:13.000 And the same thing was going on in London and England, working on radar, and the same thing was going on at MIT. And it's just, we serve at the pleasure of the public as scientists.

01:35:23.000 And too few of us realize this, and too few of us view it as a moral obligation to communicate back to the public.

01:35:28.000 And so therefore, we have this industry of science popularizers, and some people make quite a good living.

01:35:33.000 Yeah, well, it's great that people are interested in it now and it's one of the things that I think Podcasts like Lex Friedman's and many other ones that platform these people and have these discussions It's like makes things digestible.

01:35:48.000 Absolutely.

01:35:49.000 It's very important because it's very fascinating.

01:35:51.000 I wanted to bring this thing up before I forget Because we kind of skipped over it or we talked about the web.

01:35:56.000 Yeah, the web telescope How old is the universe?

01:35:59.000 Okay.

01:36:00.000 So you had this tweet that took over the internet and Instagram posted.

01:36:04.000 Well, it was actually something that I had heard before that.

01:36:07.000 Someone was saying there was something like a quasar that they had discovered that seemed to be far older than it was supposed to be.

01:36:13.000 So ever since the Webb Telescope, Webb Telescope was launched on Christmas Day 2021, and it's been traveling out to a million miles past the Earth-Moon system.

01:36:22.000 It's about a million miles from the Earth.

01:36:24.000 And there it orbits—it's cool.

01:36:26.000 It orbits around a blank piece of space that orbits around the Earth and the Sun.

01:36:30.000 So it's a wild thing that was figured out a couple hundred years ago and is only possible to be used now.

01:36:35.000 But anyway, this orbit allows James Webb and its cameras to see things in what's called the infrared portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.

01:36:45.000 So if you take—here, I brought another GIF for Joe.

01:36:48.000 So these are called a diffraction grating.

01:36:50.000 So this is like a billion mini-prisms.

01:36:53.000 I got one for Jamie, too.

01:36:55.000 After the show, I'll give it to you, Jamie.

01:36:57.000 So now if you hold this up to a source of white light, look at the source of white light above us.

01:37:02.000 You see these beautiful rainbow halos, right?

01:37:06.000 And it's almost a continuum.

01:37:08.000 In other words, you can't tell where the red leaves off, the orange begins.

01:37:12.000 You know, it's fuzzy, right?

01:37:14.000 You can't really tell.

01:37:15.000 But now look behind you at the Joe Rogan Experience neon light.

01:37:19.000 Okay?

01:37:19.000 You'll basically just see the yellow.

01:37:22.000 You'll see the orange.

01:37:23.000 And that's because that's made of gases that only emit light at very, very narrow wavelengths, very, very small wavelengths.

01:37:31.000 What am I not supposed to see?

01:37:32.000 So you don't see the halo of a pure rainbow around, say, the O. You see a couple of colors, but you don't see the continuous.

01:37:39.000 See how it kind of breaks apart?

01:37:40.000 Yeah.

01:37:41.000 Here's another example, Joe.

01:37:42.000 I'll put this on the wall.

01:37:43.000 This is a laser spot.

01:37:45.000 Okay?

01:37:46.000 So now look at this through there.

01:37:47.000 What do you see?

01:37:48.000 I can't see it.

01:37:49.000 Oh, sorry.

01:37:49.000 There you go.

01:37:50.000 Oh, yeah.

01:37:50.000 I see a bunch of them.

01:37:51.000 You just see a bunch of green dots.

01:37:52.000 Yeah, they're everywhere.

01:37:53.000 But now if I do this, here's a white light.

01:37:59.000 I'll do it.

01:37:59.000 I'll point it right close.

01:38:00.000 I don't want to blind you, but here, look at me.

01:38:02.000 Okay.

01:38:02.000 Look at that light.

01:38:03.000 Now you see a rainbow, right?

01:38:04.000 Isn't that cool?

01:38:05.000 That's beautiful.

01:38:06.000 That's cool, right?

01:38:06.000 That's really pretty.

01:38:07.000 So this diffraction grating separates light out into all of its different wavelengths.

01:38:12.000 It's called the spectrometer.

01:38:14.000 It's dispersing it according to its color.

01:38:16.000 Now, Isaac Newton and William Herschel figured out something really cool.

01:38:20.000 They said, I believe if I look at a light source, like the sun or something like that, And I block off all the light.

01:38:27.000 Here's the red light.

01:38:28.000 It's going to be on this side.

01:38:30.000 If I put a thermometer, imagine you put a thermometer like right here.

01:38:34.000 The thermometer would register 70 degrees or whatever it is in this room.

01:38:37.000 If you go outside and the sun's out, and the sunlight's not directly hitting the thermometer, and you put it where the red comes out over here, it starts to heat up.

01:38:48.000 The thermometer gets warmer.

01:38:50.000 And they realize there's light that you cannot see beyond the red that's responsible for the perception of heat.

01:38:56.000 That's heat.

01:38:57.000 That's called infrared radiation.

01:38:59.000 If you keep going in this direction, if such a thing were possible, you eventually get to microwaves, which is what I study.

01:39:05.000 Those are wavelengths of about a millimeter to three or four millimeters in wavelength.

01:39:10.000 Visible light is 500 millionths of a meter.

01:39:13.000 It's incredibly small.

01:39:14.000 Then there's infrared, et cetera, et cetera.

01:39:17.000 And then finally there's radio waves way off over there that you can't see with something like this, obviously.

01:39:21.000 You can't even see infrared light with this.

01:39:23.000 So they realize there's invisible light beyond the red, invisible to the eye, but visible to sensors and detectors.

01:39:30.000 So what Webb has are a series of detectors like these things.

01:39:34.000 These are actually superconductors, which I want to talk to you about this recent claim of detectors that can conduct electricity with no resistance.

01:39:42.000 But these are superconductors.

01:39:44.000 But nevertheless, these are like computer chips like Dell makes around the corner here, right?

01:39:48.000 So if you put that, but they detect heat, those detectors don't detect light.

01:39:53.000 They don't care about light.

01:39:55.000 They care about heat.

01:39:56.000 So if you put them at the focus of a telescope...

01:39:58.000 And you spread out the light using something like this to disperse the light, such that only infrared light falls on that telescope, then you'll be detecting infrared radiation from whatever objects you look at.

01:40:09.000 Now, if you pointed at a galaxy that's far off in the distance, or a quasar, that light has been red-shifted.

01:40:16.000 It's been moved all the way from where it started in the visible light, because those galaxies are made of suns and stars just like ours, so they should have visible light, but they're mostly red.

01:40:26.000 Only the Webb Telescope can see those with the kind of clarity and distinction that they're able to perceive it.

01:40:32.000 What was claimed by a paper, and actually I've been communicating with the author, so one of the cool things about having a podcast is that when someone puts out a claim, oh, like a superconductor that works at room temperature, which would revolutionize, or there's fusion, not fission, but fusion that exists now for the first time,

01:40:49.000 I can call them up and say, hey, I have this fun podcast.

01:40:52.000 Would you like to come on?

01:40:53.000 I've had Nobel Prize winners and billionaires and whatever.

01:40:55.000 And they come on and I can nerd out about science.

01:40:58.000 So that's super fun.

01:40:59.000 So I did an interview with this woman, this poor friend of mine, Alison Kirkpatrick in Kansas. 0.52

01:41:06.000 She was quoted as saying, like, I can't sleep.

01:41:09.000 Like, the universe is not the way it's supposed to be.

01:41:12.000 Webb has revealed and just...

01:41:14.000 Shattered all my dreams about what the universe is really like.

01:41:18.000 And this guy, I don't want to use their names, but this guy pulled that quote and said, this proves the Big Bang never happened.

01:41:26.000 That was the first thing that happened after Webb came out last year.

01:41:29.000 This gentleman is claiming that the universe is infinitely old, and that the reason that you see red galaxies is not because they're red-shifted by the expansion of this—if I kept blowing up this beach ball, these things would be moving apart from each other, red-shifting their wavelengths away from one another.

01:41:47.000 He's saying, no, that's not what's happening. 0.95

01:41:49.000 Instead, astronomers are foolish. 0.97

01:41:51.000 They've been overwhelmed by this notion of the Big Bang. 0.92

01:41:54.000 The Big Bang never happened, but light is losing energy and getting more and more red as it travels to us in an infinite universe that's infinitely old.

01:42:04.000 Is this person qualified to make this statement?

01:42:06.000 This person has marginal qualifications.

01:42:09.000 They give away the tell and poker language of this guy's non-seriousness is that he wrote the same thing 30 years ago when the Hubble telescope was launched.

01:42:17.000 He's had the same thing, and he has a book.

01:42:19.000 But the second thing that you tweeted relative to was not that the universe was infinitely old, that it was twice as old as we thought.

01:42:25.000 Yeah, it's like 26-something billion years old.

01:42:28.000 So I did a podcast with Alison Kirkpatrick, and she and I went through this guy's claims.

01:42:35.000 And then the next day, we showed what he was saying is slightly different.

01:42:39.000 He's saying the universe has a finite age, that a Big Bang-like event happened, but because of these properties of galaxies that I'll explain in just one minute, because of the properties of the galaxies, the universe has to be much, much older than astronomers claimed. 0.98

01:42:54.000 He doesn't say you guys are fools and idiots, and he's a legitimate professor in Ottawa. 0.98

01:42:57.000 His name is Rogers Gupta. 1.00

01:42:59.000 The day after...

01:43:01.000 So we went through it, took it apart.

01:43:03.000 I thought it was pretty convincing.

01:43:04.000 And he even agreed that there are problems with it.

01:43:07.000 And worse or better...

01:43:09.000 He has integrity.

01:43:11.000 Let me just say that.

01:43:11.000 He told me that his media office was kind of responsible for eventually leading to the tweet that you produced.

01:43:20.000 Because what happens in academia...

01:43:24.000 Well, so I call this the academia media hype complex.

01:43:28.000 So ordinarily you're working on something and let's say you discover, oh, there's this new material and it has a breaking point of 10,000 kilograms per millimeter.

01:43:38.000 So I'm like, okay, it's cool.

01:43:39.000 It's interesting.

01:43:40.000 It's important.

01:43:40.000 It's incremental.

01:43:41.000 No one's saying it's going to revolutionize spirituality, theology, and have our meanings restored.

01:43:47.000 But it's important.

01:43:50.000 But sometimes there'll be something that will be enough of a surprise that the professor, like me, will then go and say to their dean, hey, this is a cool result.

01:44:02.000 I'm kind of sitting on it.

01:44:03.000 I think it could be kind of big.

01:44:04.000 Then the press office, we have a press office at UCSD. I've done this before.

01:44:09.000 There's going to be some big news coming out about our result.

01:44:12.000 It's very interesting.

01:44:13.000 The university starts to promote it.

01:44:16.000 Then a local newspaper, in my case, the San Diego Union Tribune, in his case, you know, the Ottawa Times or whatever, they'll start to, you know, kind of promote it.

01:44:24.000 And then if it's really provocative, it might make national news or in the physics news.

01:44:29.000 And then if it's incredibly provocative, you know, one of the world's foremost influencers might say something about it.

01:44:35.000 And then Elon Musk might retweet and say that actually he thinks dark matter is even more sketchy than the age of the universe.

01:44:41.000 So this and, like, the astronomer community just sent people into apoplexy.

01:44:46.000 They were going, no, these guys should not be talking about...

01:44:49.000 Like, I have friends...

01:44:50.000 Like, Elon Musk shouldn't even talk about this because he launched a satellite in SpaceX whose main job is to detect Darwin.

01:44:56.000 I'm like, what are you guys talking about?

01:44:59.000 Like...

01:44:59.000 When laypeople—and Elon's a technically-minded person.

01:45:02.000 He has a physics background as an undergraduate.

01:45:04.000 He's not a physicist.

01:45:05.000 He's not a scientist working to discover new laws of nature and employ the scientific method.

01:45:09.000 He's good at engineering, and he's an incredible businessman and a visionary person.

01:45:13.000 But he's not—so he's kind of a proxy for a smart layman, right, in this sense.

01:45:18.000 There's nothing wrong with that.

01:45:20.000 But people then perceive this as like now these influencers are now overturning the work of literally thousands of astronomers and physicists working right now on legitimate scientific topics.

01:45:33.000 Let's get back to the actual claim itself.

01:45:35.000 Yeah.

01:45:36.000 So this is where we're getting away from this a little bit.

01:45:39.000 So this claim of 26 billion years.

01:45:42.000 Is that – does it make any sense?

01:45:45.000 So it can make sense in the following context.

01:45:49.000 Imagine you see a planet and on that planet there are people and they're playing around with like these electrified pieces of silicon.

01:45:58.000 And you'd be like, wait a second.

01:46:00.000 Like, that's really weird.

01:46:02.000 Like, that planet's only 4 billion years old.

01:46:04.000 How is it possible that they're not only able to talk on electrified silicon, but they're also, like, having an internet and space flight?

01:46:11.000 No, no, no.

01:46:12.000 It takes longer.

01:46:13.000 In my model of how civilizations form, it must have taken 8 billion years for that to happen.

01:46:18.000 So therefore, it's impossible to reconcile with the Earth being 4.3 billion years old.

01:46:25.000 Therefore, the Earth must be 8 billion years old.

01:46:27.000 What he said, this guy Gupta said, there are properties of galaxies.

01:46:31.000 They're rotating.

01:46:32.000 They're appearing too early on the universe's early history.

01:46:37.000 To have developed into the spiral characteristics and the population distribution of them is too numerous to have occurred in a universe that's only, quote unquote, 13 billion years.

01:46:47.000 And you actually said that.

01:46:48.000 You said like...

01:46:49.000 I always thought, you know, 13 billion's a pretty big number.

01:46:51.000 You know, now they're saying 27, so what's the difference?

01:46:53.000 But there's a big difference, because implicit in that criticism is that there are flaws and imperfections in how we understand the Big Bang, okay?

01:47:02.000 When in reality, at best, he could be correct about the formation of galaxies.

01:47:08.000 But you see, those are two separate things, right?

01:47:10.000 The formation and the structure of a galaxy has no bearing on how old the universe is, necessarily.

01:47:16.000 It tells you something about your models of computer simulations, is what he's effectively criticizing.

01:47:22.000 Not criticizing the evidence that something like a Big Bang occurred at a very definite point in the universe's past.

01:47:30.000 That we believe to about one...

01:47:32.000 We have equivalent precision for me to say...

01:47:34.000 I know how old you are, exactly.

01:47:36.000 But if you looked at a 50-year-old person, you could say, you know the day they were born, plus or minus a week.

01:47:42.000 Like, that's the precision with which modern astronomers know the age of the universe.

01:47:47.000 And one guy is coming up with this idea that because there are certain galaxies within it, That have formed this.

01:47:53.000 Again, imagine if we found a hyper-advanced civilization that has warp drives and does type 3 Dyson civilizations or whatever, they would not cast doubt on the evolution and the history of the universe itself.

01:48:08.000 That would not cause me to question that.

01:48:10.000 It would cause me to question my models of how popular people form and aliens form and stuff like that.

01:48:15.000 But it wouldn't cause me to question the age of the universe.

01:48:17.000 There's nothing related to it.

01:48:19.000 When we are studying the age of the universe and the vastness of space, Is there potentially new technology that would expose more than we currently can view that would change your model?

01:48:36.000 In the sense that we are jobs as scientists, especially me as an experimentalist, in contrast to people like Brian Cox, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Eric Weinstein, etc.

01:48:48.000 My job is not to prove theories right.

01:48:51.000 My job is actually to prove them wrong.

01:48:53.000 That's really what I get paid to do is to narrow and winnow out so much so that what is left is the truth.

01:49:00.000 There's a quote by Isaac Asimov.

01:49:02.000 He said, if you think the earth is flat, you're wrong.

01:49:05.000 If you think it's a perfect sphere, you're also wrong.

01:49:14.000 It's a sphere than to say it's flat.

01:49:25.000 Find the flaws, the cracks, that as, you know, it's said, you know, the cracks let the light in.

01:49:32.000 Our job is to find the flaws in the existing paradigms, shatter those, and refine those.

01:49:37.000 And there's countless, you know, examples of that throughout scientific history.

01:49:41.000 So there are ways that I would be caused to doubt the formation story of galaxies.

01:49:47.000 Absolutely.

01:49:47.000 I mean, that's almost like predicting hurricanes.

01:49:50.000 You know, I just came through a hurricane to see you, right?

01:49:52.000 There's a big hurricane in San Diego this week, and it's like an inch of rain, okay?

01:49:56.000 You know how we drive in Southern California, right?

01:49:58.000 So even a slick of a trace of rain causes us to go into total terror.

01:50:04.000 But we didn't know where it was going to make exact landfall because climate is an example, as I said earlier, not of something that's merely complicated.

01:50:13.000 It's complex.

01:50:14.000 The best way to simulate the Earth's climate is with another Earth.

01:50:19.000 In other words, there's no irreducible way to reduce the amount of complexity to describe a physical system than the system itself.

01:50:26.000 That's a notion of complexity.

01:50:28.000 That's a definition of complexity.

01:50:30.000 So in the context of what you said, absolutely.

01:50:33.000 And people like Allison and others, Kirkpatrick, they definitely would be more thrilled than anybody to discover, well, we don't understand there's something wrong with our model of how the universe – not how the universe form, but how galaxies form.

01:50:47.000 So what I'm asking is, with the levels of detection that we have available, How significant is the change in what the web is able to do, and is it possible that, like, when we're looking, is it whatever levels of detection,

01:51:05.000 whatever methods of detection we have now, is it absolute that if you go to 13 point whatever billion years, we couldn't have better methods of detection?

01:51:16.000 There's no way we would get more data and more information, and would it change?

01:51:20.000 Oh, I'm sorry, yeah.

01:51:21.000 No, no, I misinterpreted what you said.

01:51:22.000 What I'm saying is like, is it possible that with new technology we would get more information, we'd be able to see more, and then you would remap this idea?

01:51:32.000 Yes, let me explain.

01:51:33.000 Sorry, I misinterpreted what you said earlier, but now I can correct it.

01:51:36.000 Yes, and the good news is that's what the Simons Observatory is trying to do.

01:51:40.000 The Webb telescope was never built for, nor can it say anything about the Big Bang or what caused the Big Bang.

01:51:47.000 It's just galaxy formations.

01:51:48.000 Not just, by the way.

01:51:50.000 That's a pretty big deal.

01:51:51.000 Galaxy formations, properties of stars, exoplanets, the atmospheres, the chemistry, civilizations on exoplanets.

01:51:58.000 It can do so much cool stuff.

01:52:00.000 Now, that's not my scientific area of expertise.

01:52:03.000 What I study is this, the cosmic microwave background.

01:52:07.000 There are only three long-range messengers that can be used in astronomy.

01:52:13.000 Astronomy is really hard.

01:52:14.000 Unlike, say, biology.

01:52:16.000 Remember in high school you had like a frog or...

01:52:22.000 There's another frog.

01:52:23.000 Your buddy could do it better than you, and you should get the same results.

01:52:26.000 There's multiple examples.

01:52:28.000 You can do a control.

01:52:29.000 You can leave that frog alone, and then dissect this frog, and then put formaldehyde, whatever.

01:52:34.000 I don't know what these biologists do, to be honest with you.

01:52:37.000 When I dissected the frog, it came back to life.

01:52:39.000 I was terrible at biology.

01:52:40.000 That's when I became an astronomer.

01:52:41.000 It came back to life?

01:52:42.000 What?

01:52:42.000 No, I'm just kidding.

01:52:45.000 So you can do a variable and a control.

01:52:48.000 How do you do a control when there's only one thing?

01:52:51.000 Universe.

01:52:52.000 There's only one cosmos, right?

01:52:54.000 We can't do experiments.

01:52:55.000 But what we can do is we can make use of everything that comes to us in various forms.

01:53:00.000 There's only really three or four different types of things that come to us from great distances.

01:53:04.000 I brought some of those here with me today to give to you and to Jamie.

01:53:08.000 So some of them are meteorites, right?

01:53:10.000 There's a meteorite.

01:53:11.000 So there's a meteorite.

01:53:14.000 That's going to be Jamie, so be careful with it.

01:53:17.000 Now you, your birthday, is the peak of the Perseid meteor shower.

01:53:21.000 It's one of the best meteor showers of the year, typically.

01:53:24.000 So next year on your birthday, I'll remind you, go out, go to a dark spot, and just look up.

01:53:29.000 You don't need binoculars.

01:53:29.000 You don't need a telescope.

01:53:30.000 You don't need nothing.

01:53:32.000 And you'll see, on average, a couple of meteors per hour burning up in the atmosphere.

01:53:36.000 Those came from parts of our solar system, or Avi Loeb, our mutual friend, has discovered what he claims and seems to be pretty likely is fragments of a meteorite from another solar system that could potentially contain alloy.

01:53:52.000 In other words, not metal.

01:53:53.000 This is pure metal.

01:53:54.000 So this is your birthday gift.

01:53:56.000 This is one of your birthday gifts.

01:53:57.000 Wow.

01:53:57.000 Thank you.

01:53:57.000 So that's pretty heavy, right?

01:53:59.000 That's a real meteorite.

01:54:00.000 Now, how do you know it's a meteorite?

01:54:02.000 So check it out.

01:54:03.000 That is a fragment of the early solar system.

01:54:06.000 It's actually older than the Earth.

01:54:08.000 It's about 4.3 billion years old.

01:54:11.000 How do I know with a magnet?

01:54:12.000 Well, so these materials are very, very unusual in terms of their composition relative to things on Earth.

01:54:19.000 Here's a more powerful magnet.

01:54:21.000 That's more powerful than this big one?

01:54:22.000 Yeah, look at it. 1.00

01:54:23.000 Yeah, that's some cheap Chinese piece of junk. 1.00

01:54:25.000 Wow, that's crazy, the difference. 1.00

01:54:27.000 Yeah, check this out.

01:54:27.000 They just have pull force.

01:54:28.000 This is a robbery.

01:54:30.000 That was like, yeah.

01:54:32.000 So that big meteorite crashed in Argentina about 7,000 years ago.

01:54:39.000 It was found by tribesmen and tribeswomen in the 1500s, I believe.

01:54:44.000 And they started to take it.

01:54:45.000 And what would you do with a chunk of metal back in the 1500s, Jeff?

01:54:48.000 Make swords out of it.

01:54:49.000 They made arrowheads, which you would do too probably, right?

01:54:52.000 So they just made it into weapons of war and whatnot.

01:54:54.000 And then finally it was realized in the 1800s, 1900s it was a meteorite.

01:54:57.000 How big was it?

01:54:58.000 It was huge.

01:54:59.000 Thousands and thousands of pounds.

01:55:01.000 Tens of thousands of pounds.

01:55:02.000 Wow.

01:55:02.000 I have one big sample even bigger than that one.

01:55:05.000 So here's – and I have some information for you.

01:55:07.000 Now these little guys, I give these away on my website.

01:55:10.000 These are much, much tinier little fragments.

01:55:14.000 Those would be some very exclusive arrowheads if you could get a hold of those.

01:55:17.000 Yeah.

01:55:17.000 So my dream is to make these things into rings.

01:55:20.000 You know how Ryan Holiday has these Memento Mori coins or whatever?

01:55:25.000 So my merch, someday my dream is to make these into rings.

01:55:28.000 Because they look super cool.

01:55:29.000 Ever seen the Rolex meteorite watch?

01:55:31.000 Yeah, the meteorite surface.

01:55:33.000 That's the stone?

01:55:34.000 That's it.

01:55:35.000 That's the rock.

01:55:36.000 That's the metal chunk.

01:55:37.000 And how many years ago did this slam into the earth?

01:55:39.000 That's 7,000 years ago.

01:55:41.000 Wow.

01:55:41.000 That must have done a fuckload of damage.

01:55:45.000 Yeah, it's a big crater.

01:55:46.000 And that's just one fragment of it.

01:55:47.000 It's strewn over several kilometers, and some of the pieces are even bigger than that one.

01:55:51.000 Wow.

01:55:52.000 So now the Argentinian government has banned export of it.

01:55:55.000 So actually you can't get these.

01:55:56.000 So this is like a stockpile that I have.

01:55:58.000 I give them away, but these are fun.

01:56:01.000 So we did an isotopic test on it.

01:56:03.000 We found out what's the ratio of it.

01:56:05.000 So these can only form in space.

01:56:06.000 They have certain properties that can only form in space.

01:56:08.000 So this is one of the four long-range messengers that come throughout the cosmos.

01:56:12.000 The other one is gravitational waves.

01:56:15.000 We talked about those earlier.

01:56:16.000 Those travel at the speed of light.

01:56:18.000 These travel 20,000 miles per hour, but it's pretty fast, but it's not speed of light, which is 186,000 miles per second.

01:56:24.000 The other type of thing that travels near the speed of light, possibly at the speed of light, are called neutrinos.

01:56:30.000 Neutrinos are these ghost particles that are basically almost massless.

01:56:34.000 They interact with almost nothing except for other types of weakly interacting material.

01:56:40.000 And then the third thing are photons.

01:56:41.000 So you asked the question, could new technology reveal properties, not about the age of galaxies, but the age of the universe that would cause me to question things?

01:56:50.000 And that's exactly what I do.

01:56:51.000 So our telescope, the Simons Observatory, the one that I talked about earlier, it's a $110 million project, which will last over a decade.

01:56:59.000 And that project is aimed at not just measuring the light.

01:57:04.000 The earliest light in the universe is called the cosmic microwave background radiation.

01:57:09.000 It's the leftover heat that was left over after the first atoms formed.

01:57:15.000 The smallest, most simple atom, hydrogen, when it formed, there was still heat in the universe at that time.

01:57:20.000 That was about 400,000 years after the Big Bang.

01:57:25.000 So you can't see further back than that light, because that's when the first light is produced.

01:57:29.000 You can't see light earlier than that.

01:57:32.000 The galaxies that Webb is seeing is 300 million years old.

01:57:36.000 In other words, that's from the universe, it's a thousand times older than what we can see just with microwaves.

01:57:41.000 But that's not good enough, right?

01:58:02.000 Some say that there was a universe that existed before our universe and it collapsed.

01:58:08.000 And the material that would later become our universe emerged from what's called a big crunch or a bouncing, collapsing universe.

01:58:15.000 And these are different models.

01:58:17.000 My job is not to prove them, right?

01:58:18.000 It's to eliminate whatever ones of those I can with my team, obviously.

01:58:23.000 And in so doing, our new technology, which is the most cutting-edge technology ever made, it might be the last of its kind...

01:58:30.000 Operating in Chile, which is turning on later this year, is going to start revealing the answer to those questions.

01:58:37.000 And the way that it will do that is really a combination of three different tools.

01:58:43.000 The only three tools astronomers have are telescopes, detectors and telescopes, brains, you know, that do theoretical work and make models, and then computers to simulate and to assess the data.

01:58:54.000 We synthesize those three tools.

01:58:56.000 We hope that we'll find new information.

01:59:00.000 Will it change the age of the universe from 13.8 billion years to 26 billion years?

01:59:06.000 I don't want to say absolutely not, but there's almost no chance of that.

01:59:09.000 Because it's fundamentally almost like a different type of science.

01:59:12.000 It's like saying, I'm going to tell you about the age of Homo sapiens on Earth based on planetary geological forces.

01:59:19.000 Like, okay, you can't have a person before there was a planet, so there's some relationship, but it's very tenuous.

01:59:25.000 Interesting.

01:59:26.000 Very tenuous.

01:59:27.000 What, if anything...

01:59:31.000 Can be done other than what we're doing right now to try to detect whether or not there is either signals from an intelligent species out there somewhere or some sort of evidence of them in terms of some manipulation of their atmosphere or something like that.

01:59:51.000 Yeah, this is obviously a big, big topic.

01:59:53.000 And I really wouldn't have gotten so interested in it.

01:59:56.000 I used to really dismiss it.

01:59:57.000 And I still am, probably you'd call me an alien minimalist because I think there's almost no chance that there are aliens.

02:00:05.000 Certainly there's almost, I would say there's almost no chance that there's intelligent technological aliens.

02:00:11.000 In other words, it could be slime mold on some exoplanet Proximus in Turi B, but we never know about it because they don't have thumbs and technology, right?

02:00:18.000 But I even think that that might be impossible or as close to impossible.

02:00:22.000 As a good scientist, I should never say zero chance they're aliens or zero.

02:00:26.000 But as you go down the logical chain, as you go down the evolutionary chain of, say, alien technology, as you said, could they be communicating with us?

02:00:34.000 Well, we only know of these three different ways that they can communicate with us.

02:00:38.000 The three things I brought here, you know, the meteorites that could send objects, trash. 0.62

02:00:43.000 Avi Loeb thinks these are trash, you know. 0.92

02:00:45.000 He went to Papua New Guinea.

02:00:46.000 He scooped up some of these little fragments of a meteorite.

02:00:49.000 You should definitely have him back on.

02:00:50.000 It was a phenomenal episode with him.

02:00:52.000 He and I had a conversation, very technical, but I like to think I can compliment some of the cool stuff that you do by going deep into the astronomy so that my colleagues actually get some interest out of it, too.

02:01:03.000 But when we think about craft, now you're not sending things other than sending neutrino beams to us or sending gravitational waves to us or sending light.

02:01:15.000 Those are all things that propagate near the speed of light.

02:01:17.000 This is very slow.

02:01:18.000 This is very, very slow.

02:01:20.000 To get this here, that took thousands and thousands of years just orbiting around the Earth.

02:01:25.000 But even if it came from another solar system, we have no idea where it came from.

02:01:28.000 I'm going to stop you because you went way off track a little bit.

02:01:34.000 I want to be clear on what you're saying.

02:01:36.000 Do you think there's no possibility for alien life in the universe?

02:01:40.000 I think it's – I didn't say it's no probability.

02:01:43.000 I think the probability is very low and I can explain why.

02:01:46.000 So have you ever heard of the Drake equation?

02:01:49.000 Yes.

02:01:50.000 Yeah.

02:01:50.000 So the Drake equation is essentially a parameterization of our ignorance about certain things in the universe.

02:01:56.000 And we've kind of checked off seven of the terms and the eight terms of the Drake equation, thanks to new technology, thanks to new telescopes, how many stars have planets around them, how many totals.

02:02:07.000 But there's a couple terms in there, the lifetime of a civilization and a certain fraction of how much that civilization can dedicate its energy or what have you towards broadcasting its presence, right?

02:02:20.000 So for us to know that they exist, they have to have made technology for them to exist.

02:02:25.000 And they have to exist in the first place.

02:02:27.000 So how many of such objects are there?

02:02:29.000 That's what the Drake equation is really parameterizing.

02:02:33.000 Now, I propose that you should be able to do the following thing.

02:02:37.000 If there's life in the universe, just life, slime mold, I don't care what it is, you should be able to set limits on it in the following sense.

02:02:46.000 And what I'm going to do is do a radicchio ad absurdum.

02:02:49.000 I'm going to prove...

02:02:50.000 I'm going to motivate, hopefully I can't prove, but I'm going to motivate the illogic of suspecting that there are extraterrestrial intelligence civilizations.

02:02:59.000 Okay, here it goes.

02:03:00.000 Let me just tell you, my colleagues discovered that there's a planet, and it's around a star that's just like our sun.

02:03:08.000 And it's next to another planet.

02:03:10.000 And that planet's full of life.

02:03:13.000 And the other planet's almost identical to that planet.

02:03:17.000 It's almost the same size.

02:03:18.000 It has a day the same length as the day of the planet that has just rotten with life.

02:03:24.000 It's crawling with Kardashians and slime molds and whatever, right?

02:03:28.000 Okay.

02:03:28.000 So it's out there.

02:03:29.000 Just like us.

02:03:29.000 Yeah.

02:03:30.000 I said to you, Joe, what do you think the odds are that those two neighboring planets, there's no reason physically they shouldn't both be identical.

02:03:37.000 What are the odds that the other one should not have life?

02:03:41.000 What would you say?

02:03:42.000 With the same environment?

02:03:44.000 It's the same solar system environment, same properties, rocky planet, had liquid water, it has an atmosphere, it has a magnetic field, you know, has all sorts of things.

02:03:53.000 I would think it would be more likely that it would have life.

02:03:56.000 Very likely.

02:03:57.000 It would be extremely likely.

02:03:58.000 Okay, now let me tell you that that planet exists.

02:04:01.000 It's called Mars, and I brought you a piece of it here, okay?

02:04:04.000 Oh.

02:04:04.000 This is a fragment.

02:04:06.000 Okay, so this goes in order of expense.

02:04:08.000 Okay.

02:04:08.000 So these things I give away.

02:04:11.000 That big meteorite is a present for you.

02:04:13.000 Thank you.

02:04:14.000 This is a piece of Mars.

02:04:16.000 This I only give to you.

02:04:17.000 I don't have one for Jamie.

02:04:18.000 That's an actual piece of Mars.

02:04:20.000 That's an actual piece of Mars.

02:04:20.000 So from an asteroid?

02:04:22.000 So what happened was the Earth gets hit by meteors, right, all the time.

02:04:27.000 But so do all the other planets.

02:04:29.000 Sometimes some of that material from Mars gets impacted.

02:04:32.000 Imagine something that big that Jamie showed before slamming into it.

02:04:35.000 It's going to eject it from the surface of Mars. 0.88

02:04:37.000 That's going to orbit in the clouds of Mars.

02:04:39.000 It's eventually going to get outside the atmosphere of Mars if the impact is great enough.

02:04:42.000 Carrying some of the debris, the surface, the crust of Mars, etc.

02:04:45.000 And that will then percolate throughout the solar system for tens of millions of years, perhaps, until the Earth smashes into it and it lands.

02:04:52.000 In this case, it landed in Africa.

02:04:53.000 That was recovered from Africa.

02:04:55.000 That little third of a gram is a slice off a bigger chunk, okay?

02:05:01.000 And not only does that piece of Mars doesn't have any signature of life on it.

02:05:06.000 We've been to Mars.

02:05:07.000 We've stuck probes into Mars.

02:05:08.000 We have a helicopter, freaking helicopter, flying around on Mars right now.

02:05:12.000 It's insane.

02:05:13.000 We don't see anything.

02:05:15.000 Now, that doesn't mean that life didn't exist there before.

02:05:18.000 It doesn't mean that if we don't fly into a lava cave, there won't be.

02:05:21.000 But does it not say something?

02:05:23.000 This is called panspermia.

02:05:25.000 It's something that sounds dirty, but it's not right.

02:05:27.000 No, I know that term.

02:05:28.000 Yeah.

02:05:28.000 So we exchanged material.

02:05:30.000 And actually, Sir Fred Hoyle, the guy who came up with the idea for the name of the Big Bang, he actually believed in the steady state model.

02:05:37.000 He believed that's how life was seeded on Earth.

02:05:40.000 The fact is that we've been exchanging material for literally billions of years from when the Earth was, you know, just bacteria and Mars was flowing with water.

02:05:49.000 We know Mars was rich with water.

02:05:51.000 Now, the fact that we don't see any is that proof it never had absolute and not.

02:05:55.000 But I'm just saying it's a piece of evidence.

02:05:57.000 And that evidence is very hard to come by, right?

02:05:59.000 It's hard to prove a negative, right?

02:06:01.000 It's hard to say that like Mars definitely never had life.

02:06:03.000 Can I stop you there?

02:06:04.000 Yeah.

02:06:04.000 How much detection do we have?

02:06:07.000 I mean, how much technology is currently on Mars that's looking at signs of life?

02:06:13.000 There have been probes since, you know, Viking and so forth.

02:06:16.000 How many of them are capable of detecting signs of life other than like physical things?

02:06:20.000 All of them have had some capability for precursors to life.

02:06:23.000 In other words, some have been able to detect water.

02:06:25.000 Some have had spectrometers that could detect gases.

02:06:28.000 Right.

02:06:28.000 So like how many of them are landed?

02:06:30.000 Probably 15 or 20. And Mars is, what is it?

02:06:33.000 How much smaller than Earth?

02:06:35.000 A third?

02:06:36.000 Yeah, it's a little bigger than the Moon, but a lot smaller than Earth.

02:06:39.000 So it seems like a lot of space that we didn't detect things on or didn't even visit.

02:06:45.000 Right.

02:06:45.000 But isn't that the converse of the usual argument that I hear?

02:06:49.000 There's 100 billion stars in the Milky Way.

02:06:53.000 Many of them are like the Sun.

02:06:54.000 There's 100 billion galaxies or more.

02:06:57.000 Like the Milky Way, so it's 100 billion squared.

02:07:00.000 The universe is 13.8 billion years old.

02:07:03.000 So what are the odds?

02:07:04.000 So usually astronomers will do calculations a following way, instead of asking what's the probability of that.

02:07:12.000 For example, I've been to Antarctica twice.

02:07:14.000 I'm in the South Pole, which you would just be bored out of your mind probably, because all it is is going out into the middle of the Pacific Ocean and freezing it.

02:07:22.000 There's nothing to do there.

02:07:23.000 The coast of Antarctica is really cool.

02:07:25.000 So this is a rock from there.

02:07:26.000 They have volcanoes there.

02:07:28.000 That's not for you, but that one I've got to take back because that cost me $50,000.

02:07:31.000 That cost you, the taxpayer, $50,000.

02:07:33.000 But this you can keep.

02:07:35.000 This is from the South Pole's gift shop, Joe.

02:07:37.000 That's a patch from the United States.

02:07:39.000 We have such cool freaking scientists, man, our country and the world.

02:07:44.000 I heard something.

02:07:45.000 I was like, I wonder if Joe knows this.

02:07:48.000 It's totally random, but just how cool is freaking science?

02:07:52.000 It's pretty cool.

02:07:53.000 Do you know they can measure, and I'll get back to your question in just a second.

02:07:56.000 They measure, like, the stress levels of whales.

02:07:59.000 And they can use the stress of whales to determine if, like, the Soviets or the Russians are testing bombs under the ocean floor.

02:08:08.000 Like, what the hell?

02:08:09.000 I heard this talk recently. 0.63

02:08:10.000 A woman studying whale earwax.

02:08:13.000 So whales don't have ears, like, are the stick out.

02:08:15.000 They'll not be good for, like, swimming around, right?

02:08:17.000 There's a lot of friction.

02:08:18.000 But they have, like, these vestigial things because they, like, evolve from wolves.

02:08:22.000 I always thought stuff came out of the water and that whales evolved into wolves.

02:08:26.000 No, no.

02:08:26.000 They think that wolves turned into whales.

02:08:28.000 Really?

02:08:28.000 Yes.

02:08:29.000 Wolves?

02:08:30.000 Yes.

02:08:30.000 I don't know.

02:08:31.000 Jamie Haspel, because I am a total ignoramus, but this is a going theory, that whales evolved from wolves.

02:08:37.000 So like most mammals, they have ears.

02:08:39.000 Those ears have been covered over.

02:08:41.000 And what happens to a whale is that it retains earwax.

02:08:45.000 And there's earwax in the whale.

02:08:47.000 The whale doesn't hear with its ears.

02:08:48.000 It hears through its jawbone.

02:08:50.000 And that reverberates, and that's how it senses sound.

02:08:52.000 And it still has vestigial earwax.

02:08:54.000 They sample the earwax of dead whales, and they can measure how much cortisol, the stress hormone, is in the whale.

02:09:02.000 And they know the migratory patterns of the whale.

02:09:05.000 And they do some of this research in Antarctica.

02:09:07.000 That's really fascinating.

02:09:09.000 We're kind of getting off topic.

02:09:10.000 I want to understand how you can look at all of the variables that are possible in terms of the composition of planets, in terms of temperature, in terms of also different kinds of environments for life that we haven't encountered yet but could be real.

02:09:26.000 Different kinds of life.

02:09:28.000 Things that are very, very alien to what we perceive of as carbon-based life forms.

02:09:33.000 I just don't understand how you're looking at one planet that has a very different environment than Earth, even though Earth has life and it doesn't, and using that one example to sort of dismiss the possibility that in the insanely vast universe that there couldn't be something that's very similar to the conditions of Earth.

02:09:53.000 Yeah.

02:09:54.000 No, 100% right.

02:09:55.000 You're 100% right.

02:09:56.000 And I'm not saying that.

02:09:57.000 I'm not saying I'm ruling it out.

02:09:59.000 I'm saying there's what's called evidence, prior information.

02:10:02.000 Right.

02:10:03.000 And you should be able to say that how likely it is, you should be able to run a simulation, say for every time there's a planet that's rotten with life like the Earth, there's some odds in the overlapping communal history of those two planets in a binary planet system that they should share life.

02:10:17.000 And then you get a number.

02:10:18.000 I'm not saying I know that number.

02:10:20.000 But you should be using that as information to sort of say, what is the fecundity?

02:10:25.000 How likely is it for life to get started?

02:10:27.000 And once it starts going, I believe evolution can take over.

02:10:31.000 But you just kept this notion that because the universe is so vast...

02:10:36.000 But the reason I brought up Antarctica and these whales, and I know it sounds totally irrelevant, but I've been there twice, okay?

02:10:43.000 There's four different animals that I've seen in Antarctica, okay?

02:10:46.000 And there are these giant seagulls called skuas that will frickin' rip your face off if you leave it outside, you know? 0.62

02:10:53.000 They're just nasty birds, okay?

02:10:55.000 There's penguins on the continent itself.

02:10:58.000 And there's seals and then there's people, okay?

02:11:01.000 So this is one-seventh of the continents of Earth.

02:11:04.000 There's almost no other life on Earth.

02:11:06.000 But imagine you could make the same argument.

02:11:08.000 The Earth is so big and like wherever there's a continent, there should be life.

02:11:12.000 But you don't see cities in Antarctica.

02:11:14.000 You don't see other, not even like other people.

02:11:17.000 You don't see like, well, there's still Neanderthals down there. 0.82

02:11:20.000 There were dinosaurs there at one point, but I'm saying right now.

02:11:23.000 So just by saying that there's the large number hypothesis, Right.

02:11:47.000 And we know that there's an insane amount of planets out there that could replicate this environment.

02:11:54.000 Right.

02:11:54.000 So wouldn't you then say, again, if you knew that life is so incredible, there's these extremophiles that live in volcanic vents 3,000 meters under the ocean.

02:12:03.000 So again, You have to say, like, what are the odds that we would not see life on Mars or on Enceladus?

02:12:09.000 And I'm not saying, again, I'm not saying there is no other life.

02:12:11.000 But it's just Mars.

02:12:11.000 It's one example.

02:12:12.000 And it could be that life requires a very narrow window that we enjoy.

02:12:17.000 Sure.

02:12:17.000 That may be.

02:12:18.000 But look at all the other factors that go into the life existence on Earth.

02:12:21.000 We talked about Jupiter before.

02:12:23.000 There are scientists that believe that without Jupiter we wouldn't be here because Jupiter is like a big vacuum cleaner.

02:12:29.000 There are scientists that believe that if the moon wasn't as close as it is, you know, that the moon is exactly the same angular diameter as the sun from the earth.

02:12:38.000 Do you know what that implies for you?

02:12:39.000 And next April 8th when I come and visit you again, there's a total eclipse of the sun.

02:12:44.000 Oh, wow.

02:12:45.000 So I'm going to take you, if you're willing, I'm going to take you to show you the eclipse of the sun.

02:12:48.000 Yeah, sure.

02:12:48.000 That sounds like a lot of fun.

02:12:49.000 It'll change your life.

02:12:50.000 Where would we go?

02:12:51.000 We're going to go up to San Antonio.

02:12:52.000 Oh, nice.

02:12:53.000 We're going to drive.

02:12:54.000 It's easy.

02:12:54.000 Or we'll fly.

02:12:55.000 It's only a 90-minute drive.

02:12:57.000 It's not even 90 minutes, right?

02:12:58.000 Have you ever experienced a total solar eclipse?

02:13:01.000 I didn't experience it because I remember, was it Donald Trump that was staring at the sun?

02:13:07.000 Wasn't it?

02:13:08.000 It was him.

02:13:09.000 I was like, I'm not going to be that guy.

02:13:10.000 I think I did try to look at it.

02:13:13.000 Yeah, now that I'm remembering this.

02:13:14.000 But it didn't come through here.

02:13:15.000 No, it was in California.

02:13:17.000 If you were to see it, the experience that you had on Mauna Kea will seem like you're just going down to the bar or something.

02:13:25.000 Really?

02:13:26.000 This has changed your life.

02:13:27.000 Okay, I'm in.

02:13:28.000 This will change your life. 0.99

02:13:28.000 Damn it, we told everybody we're going to San Antonio on April 8th. 0.99

02:13:30.000 It's going to be a real problem. 0.99

02:13:32.000 Well, we'll find a secret place.

02:13:34.000 A lot of freaks.

02:13:34.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:13:35.000 Freaks are going to show up.

02:13:36.000 So the reason I bring that up is because it happens to have the exact – have you ever seen the far side?

02:13:41.000 There's no dark side of the moon.

02:13:42.000 There's a far side of the moon.

02:13:43.000 It's riddled with craters.

02:13:44.000 Guess what?

02:13:44.000 Each one of those is a secret service agent that took the bullet for us.

02:13:50.000 Any one of those could have exterminated.

02:13:52.000 The fact that we did have a huge impact 65 million years ago that led to the advent of the mammals to replace the dinosaurs.

02:14:01.000 The fact that we have internal terrestrial magnetism that then allows cosmic radiation to avoid impacting the Earth where the population is the largest of all species, the auroras are in the North.

02:14:14.000 They're not in the equator.

02:14:16.000 We don't see them here.

02:14:18.000 The existence of plate tectonics, which is lubricated.

02:14:23.000 The going theory about plate tectonics, I don't know if you've heard this, but it's actually a lubricant.

02:14:28.000 You ever heard of dry graphite as a lubricant that you put in guns or whatever?

02:14:33.000 That the continental shelf is moving over these things.

02:14:35.000 They think that that's a precursor, a requisite for life.

02:14:39.000 Let's do the following very simple calculation.

02:14:41.000 Imagine there's eight things.

02:14:42.000 You're God.

02:14:43.000 You say, to have an iPhone, you're going to need eight things.

02:14:47.000 I think there's like trillions and trillions of things.

02:14:49.000 But imagine there's eight of them, okay?

02:14:50.000 And imagine each one, that the Earth has a moon that's just the right distance to have tides to slosh biological material back and forth from the early...

02:14:58.000 And that has plate tectonics.

02:14:59.000 That's two.

02:15:00.000 It has a Jupiter nearby.

02:15:01.000 It eventually gets hit by a Chicxulub meteor that kills off the big dinosaurs.

02:15:07.000 It has a diurnal period that's compatible.

02:15:10.000 It has a magnet.

02:15:11.000 Let's just say there's eight of them, right?

02:15:13.000 Let's say each one has a probability in your godlike cosmic roulette wheel of one in a thousand for each one of those eight things to occur.

02:15:23.000 1 over 1,000.

02:15:25.000 Now, if you take that problem, and I think it's like 1 over 10 trillion for some of these things, right?

02:15:29.000 Now, take each one of those.

02:15:31.000 So take 1 over 1,000, raise it to the eighth power.

02:15:34.000 You get 1, 10 to the 24th.

02:15:37.000 Guess what that number is?

02:15:38.000 What?

02:15:38.000 It's the same as the number of stars in the whole universe throughout history.

02:15:42.000 In other words, one thing, only eight different things that had to occur to make life in my simplified God computer that Joe Rogan is controlling.

02:15:50.000 And the probability of those eight things only is only one part in 10 to the 24th.

02:15:56.000 Then the problem is you're multiplying a large number by a number that's completely unknown.

02:16:02.000 The probability that all these events can line up to make life.

02:16:05.000 And you're saying anything times infinity is finite.

02:16:08.000 Can I stop you?

02:16:10.000 We're not necessarily saying that.

02:16:12.000 First of all, is it conceivable that there would be solar systems that don't have the sort of asteroid and meteor activity that we do?

02:16:20.000 Of course, yeah.

02:16:22.000 So wouldn't they maybe not get as pelted by asteroids and meteors and have more time to develop?

02:16:30.000 Isn't that conceivable that there could be a different kind of life?

02:16:34.000 If we find so much variety of life, like we talked about the volcanic vents, isn't it possible that there could be other ways that life could form in different environments that may be hostile to biological life on Earth, but not to whatever evolves there?

02:16:50.000 We're talking about an infinite number of variables.

02:16:52.000 We're talking about so many different planets.

02:16:55.000 But why is it that the large number—see, again, that's the Carl Sagan, you know, if there's no life in the universe, it's a big, awful waste of space.

02:17:04.000 But that implies— I don't think that's true.

02:17:06.000 I think that's— That's what he said.

02:17:08.000 Well, I believe that he said that.

02:17:09.000 I'm not saying that he didn't say that, but I don't think that way at all.

02:17:12.000 I think we're so silly to think that this finite thing that we call biological life is the most significant thing and something that we know is at least 13 whatever billion years old. 0.97

02:17:24.000 That's so insane that human life, which is just like this never-ending cycle of birth and death with this one particular organism, That that thing is the most important thing that's going on in the fucking universe. 0.98

02:17:39.000 That's so crazy. 0.97

02:17:41.000 As much as I love people...

02:17:42.000 I know, but you don't have any evidence for that, right?

02:17:44.000 I mean, there's...

02:17:44.000 What do you mean?

02:17:45.000 Evidence for what?

02:17:46.000 I mean, you can't say that we are not alone.

02:17:48.000 Right.

02:17:49.000 You can't say we're not alone.

02:17:50.000 But...

02:17:51.000 I mean, it's just the idea that that's the most important thing.

02:17:55.000 That biological life is the most important thing.

02:17:57.000 I mean, I'm coming from a religious perspective, right?

02:17:59.000 So I'm going to say that we believe that humans have infinite worth and that we're made in the image of God, right?

02:18:06.000 That we have God-like abilities.

02:18:07.000 So how many other God-like things could there be in the universe?

02:18:11.000 And again, I don't want this said that Brian Keating, astrophysicist, believes that there's definitely no...

02:18:16.000 I believe that there could be life.

02:18:18.000 In fact, I believe that there is life outside of the Earth, but I think it came from the Earth.

02:18:22.000 Interesting.

02:18:23.000 Yeah, interesting.

02:18:24.000 You mean in the whole universe itself that it's come from the Earth?

02:18:28.000 Well, even the most...

02:18:29.000 And I think you had Adam Frank, professor at University of Rochester, on about five or ten years ago.

02:18:33.000 He does the following calculation.

02:18:35.000 He basically proves that it's likely that we're not the only technological civilization in the universe.

02:18:40.000 Mm-hmm.

02:18:46.000 I'm listening.

02:18:49.000 I'm listening.

02:19:02.000 Planets and stars in the universe.

02:19:04.000 That there's been one civilization throughout 13.8 billion years.

02:19:07.000 That doesn't mean in our solar system.

02:19:10.000 It doesn't mean in our galaxy.

02:19:11.000 It doesn't mean in Andromeda, the small Magellanic clouds.

02:19:14.000 It doesn't even mean right now.

02:19:15.000 It could be that life could have formed 100 million years after the Big Bang and is gone.

02:19:20.000 So is it relevant to you?

02:19:22.000 Like, it's unknowable.

02:19:23.000 I'm saying what he's saying is at best it's unknowable because we can't contact the species that's extinct.

02:19:29.000 We'll never travel to a place that's beyond a few light years from Earth.

02:19:33.000 And so then you can say, of course, well, why don't we think that there are more laws of physics than we even know about?

02:19:38.000 Of course, if we lived 100 years ago, we'd think there are two laws of physics, right?

02:19:41.000 So I don't want to be arrogant.

02:19:43.000 I don't want to say, I know for sure.

02:19:44.000 That's why I will never say that.

02:19:45.000 But I'm saying, right now, if you had a bet, if you had a bet, and there's some kind...

02:19:50.000 You would make that bet, yes, there is life.

02:19:52.000 And maybe you even bet there's technological life, because maybe you believe that there are extraterrestrial beings that are visiting us, or perhaps there could be the possibility.

02:20:00.000 You would say yes.

02:20:01.000 I would say no.

02:20:02.000 And I would say, based on what evidence, can you say that there's life outside of the Earth?

02:20:06.000 I'd say, right now there's zero evidence.

02:20:08.000 You would have to admit that, right?

02:20:09.000 There's no evidence.

02:20:10.000 But a lack of evidence is not evidence that it doesn't exist.

02:20:13.000 That's absolutely true.

02:20:14.000 So when you are seeing all this UAP disclosure talk and all this stuff, what is your take on this stuff?

02:20:21.000 So I've talked to people, Ryan Graves, who you've had on, I've talked to, I actually did a podcast with his wingman, one of his former Navy pilot wingmen.

02:20:29.000 I listened to it.

02:20:30.000 Yeah, oh good, thanks.

02:20:31.000 It was very good.

02:20:32.000 Yeah, I shouldn't say thanks before you said it was good.

02:20:35.000 Thank you.

02:20:36.000 It was very good.

02:20:38.000 Thank you.

02:20:38.000 It was very, very interesting.

02:20:39.000 I appreciate it.

02:20:39.000 I'll put that on my resume.

02:20:46.000 Remember earlier, like two hours ago, I was going to ask you for advice, and I'm such a blabbermouth, I didn't get to ask you for advice as a podcaster.

02:20:52.000 The advice I want to ask you is, when you're talking to somebody, and for one reason or another, maybe it's your past history, maybe it's researches you've done independently that even an expert hasn't done, and you're thinking this person's wrong, or this person's making a mistake.

02:21:05.000 Has that ever happened to you?

02:21:06.000 And if so, how do you deal with that as a podcaster?

02:21:09.000 It's complicated.

02:21:10.000 I mean, I always do or try to do my very best to let someone express himself fully before I interject.

02:21:18.000 But there are some times we have to say that's not true.

02:21:21.000 That this is not what you're saying has been disproven.

02:21:25.000 And this is like we should show how it's been disproven.

02:21:29.000 Or, you know, you could be talking about something that I'm an expert in.

02:21:33.000 Like if someone wants to bring, like from UFC, for example, somebody wants to say, if you wanted to fight in the UFC, all you need to do is learn kung fu.

02:21:43.000 If someone said that, I'd be like, you're out of your mind.

02:21:46.000 Or it's as fake as wrestling.

02:21:47.000 You could say you're totally full of it.

02:21:48.000 Well, that's someone that's delusional.

02:21:50.000 But I mean, anybody who watches the fights, they know they're real.

02:21:52.000 But if someone had this very distorted perspective on something that I know a lot about, Yeah, maybe I would be like, you shouldn't say that, because this is why that's not accurate.

02:22:05.000 So I'm talking to Ryan Graves, and I've talked to Lieutenant Anne Dietrich, who is the wing woman, I guess you'd say, of Commander David Fravor, who you've had on.

02:22:14.000 I've talked to them, and I've talked to them, okay, look, I'm a pilot, I fly a little Cessna, it's not going to be like... 0.96

02:22:21.000 You know, I'm talking to super hornet pilots, I'm like a schmuck, right?

02:22:24.000 But, you know, when you see things like, I'm told, like, I can't question them because I didn't serve in the military, or they have great hand-eye coordination, or they're trained observers. 0.94

02:22:33.000 I actually know, my flight instructor told me a couple of things.

02:22:36.000 He said to me, he said, you relying on hand-eye coordination, or you relying on your innate abilities as a pilot, or your, you know, your ability to perceive things is going to get you killed.

02:22:47.000 And he wasn't some military pilot.

02:22:49.000 I don't know who my stepfather was.

02:22:50.000 But the point being, you're trained to ignore your senses and pay attention to your instruments.

02:22:56.000 Therefore, the human factor is irrelevant.

02:22:59.000 The fact that he can land on a carrier at night in the middle of a typhoon doesn't have anything to do with the fact that he is not necessarily better at judging evidence versus me as a scientist or even as a layperson.

02:23:11.000 Okay.

02:23:12.000 So we're talking, and then I hear things like, well, he witnessed this, or he saw this, or he has data about this.

02:23:19.000 And by the way, he's been to my house.

02:23:20.000 I've had him for Shabbat dinner.

02:23:22.000 And I like Ryan a lot, and I like Ann Dietrich, and Fravor sounds really great.

02:23:27.000 When you hear them say things, and then they will say things like you and Eric talked about, okay?

02:23:32.000 They're defying the laws of physics, or these things cannot occur within what we understand about physics.

02:23:37.000 Right.

02:23:37.000 They're not physicists, and I'm not a pilot, okay?

02:23:40.000 But we can use our various skills.

02:23:42.000 When I see things like, he saw this.

02:23:45.000 No, he didn't see it.

02:23:46.000 He didn't claim to see it.

02:23:47.000 And even in your interviews.

02:23:48.000 Ryan Graves did.

02:23:49.000 Ryan Graves did not see anything with his eyes.

02:23:51.000 He saw things on radar with a system that was newly upgraded in the Super Hornet Mark D that he was flying, okay?

02:23:57.000 Recently upgraded.

02:23:58.000 Yeah.

02:23:58.000 Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

02:24:00.000 Fravor and Dietrich, when they were flying, they, you know, saw things and they tried to perceive them from great altitude, something the size of a school bus, you know, and how fast it was moving relative to the ground.

02:24:11.000 Okay, then there's data.

02:24:12.000 Then there's things from the Princeton.

02:24:14.000 So I've looked into these things.

02:24:15.000 I know the limitations.

02:24:16.000 I know an awful lot about radio technology, radar sensing.

02:24:20.000 So I don't think that being a military pilot, as much as I don't have the balls to do what any of them do, and I never had the guts to sign up to the military, though I might have liked to, Doesn't mean that we accept what they say uncritically.

02:24:33.000 And in Ryan's case, I find it unpersuasive.

02:24:36.000 I don't mean to say that it's not important.

02:24:38.000 It's very important, very significant what he's doing.

02:24:40.000 Because I think at best, at worst rather, it could save the lives of pilots if it's some Chinese spy balloon. 0.90

02:24:47.000 It could be American PSYOP. It could be doing all sorts of things.

02:24:50.000 Or Grush. 0.67

02:24:50.000 I don't know if you've talked to him. 0.67

02:24:51.000 I haven't talked to him.

02:24:52.000 You know, claiming non-human biologics, which is, you know, non-cow animal.

02:24:57.000 Okay, what is that?

02:24:58.000 What does that mean?

02:24:58.000 Is a slime mold, you know, my favorite thing?

02:25:01.000 What did you think of the Fravor video evidence?

02:25:04.000 So this is the tic-tac or the...

02:25:06.000 Yeah.

02:25:07.000 Yeah.

02:25:07.000 So this is going back to 2004. And by the way, all these things occur in military...

02:25:13.000 Preponderance occur in military areas.

02:25:15.000 Very important point.

02:25:16.000 What's happening with Ryan, and I've flown through that area.

02:25:18.000 You know, you can fly through it.

02:25:19.000 If I take up my little Cessna, I will fly you through this warning area.

02:25:23.000 It's not something like a secret thing where Area 51 is blowing up stuff or nuking alien artifacts.

02:25:28.000 Is there restricted airspace out there, though, that you're not allowed to travel?

02:25:30.000 It's a warning area, which means that if you go into it, you could be intercepted, but for fun.

02:25:35.000 Not for fun, for training.

02:25:37.000 So what an F-18 will do...

02:25:38.000 Oh, Jesus Christ, they're going to practice on you?

02:25:40.000 Oh, my God.

02:25:41.000 That's how they train their radar systems. 1.00

02:25:43.000 Oh my god, they gotta practice on you if you fly your little fucking propeller plane. 0.99

02:25:47.000 Do you know how horrifying that would be? 0.99

02:25:51.000 Those dudes just buzzed up on you in a fighter jet. 1.00

02:25:54.000 Those are serious killers. 0.99

02:25:55.000 Oh my god, and those things are so fucking fast. 0.99

02:25:58.000 They're fast. 0.56

02:25:58.000 I flew with the Blue Angels once. 0.56

02:26:00.000 You did?

02:26:00.000 Yeah, it was amazing.

02:26:02.000 No, that's awesome.

02:26:02.000 It was amazing.

02:26:02.000 Did you puke?

02:26:03.000 Yeah, I did.

02:26:04.000 I did puke.

02:26:05.000 I did puke and I was so embarrassed because I'd gotten through seven and a half G's and I made it, you know, from hooking, you know, the thing you do where you go, You're forcing blood into your brain, and I did that at seven and a half G's, and then I failed to do it on a lesser turn, and I blacked out.

02:26:21.000 You blacked out.

02:26:22.000 Tito Ortiz. 1.00

02:26:22.000 I just fucked up. 1.00

02:26:24.000 No, it wasn't like, his was crazy. 1.00

02:26:26.000 He was in one of those, yeah, that thing's insane.

02:26:30.000 What I did was, I could have survived that one easier.

02:26:34.000 It was not as bad, but I didn't do it in time.

02:26:36.000 And it was like, it came upon me so quick, and then when I came out of it, I threw up.

02:26:39.000 This guy, Hazard Lee, he's a great, he's got a good...

02:26:42.000 It's wild because it's like an elevator door.

02:26:45.000 You see the black closing on the sides, like literally like an elevator door.

02:26:50.000 And it's almost like you're forcing the door open, like hoot, hoot, hoot.

02:26:54.000 When you're doing that, you're forcing that blood into your head and it keeps you conscious.

02:26:58.000 Have you ever been knocked out?

02:26:59.000 No, never been unconscious.

02:27:00.000 That's wild.

02:27:01.000 Yeah.

02:27:01.000 I haven't either, thankfully, but my kids are getting bigger.

02:27:04.000 Everybody can be.

02:27:05.000 I just haven't been hit the right way by the right person.

02:27:07.000 That's right.

02:27:07.000 Thank God.

02:27:08.000 God, I've seen a lot of them.

02:27:10.000 But the point is that, like, that...

02:27:12.000 If you're dealing with... 0.96

02:27:14.000 Like, that kind of speed is fucking insane.

02:27:17.000 But the thing that they're describing, that Ryan Graves is describing, is something that's able to stay stationary at 120 knots of wind. 0.71

02:27:24.000 The thing that the Commander Fravor and what their radar detected was that this thing had gone from 50,000 feet to 50 feet in a second.

02:27:32.000 Okay.

02:27:33.000 So what would happen if that happened?

02:27:34.000 You're actually holding right over there.

02:27:36.000 What would happen if that happened?

02:27:37.000 You had any kind of material traveling through the Earth's atmosphere at such a speed would be at least illuminated and at least probably be incinerated.

02:27:46.000 But, okay, so then the argument becomes, well, maybe they have advanced metamaterials that we don't have access to.

02:27:50.000 Okay.

02:27:51.000 So you can keep adding things onto it, which is exactly, by the way, what this guy Gupta and the galaxy thing did.

02:27:55.000 He keeps adding – if you keep adding parameters to your theory in order to make it fit observations that otherwise don't compare.

02:28:01.000 Yeah, but observations backed by data, and this data is from these very advanced military detection systems that did detect this physical object that was witnessed by two fighter jets.

02:28:14.000 Isn't another possibility that there's some method of propulsion that doesn't—it's not propulsion at all— Instead, it's manipulating gravity, manipulating whatever the fuck it's doing to go from one point in space to another point in space almost instantaneously.

02:28:32.000 But not biological.

02:28:34.000 Not like a physical thing inside of it.

02:28:37.000 I'm talking about like a drone.

02:28:38.000 Okay.

02:28:38.000 So the reason you've heard, or I mentioned this Chicxulub, which is the meteor crater off the Yucatan Peninsula.

02:28:44.000 That was the theory in which that was kind of unveiled was a physicist, nuclear physicist, Nobel Prize winner named Luis Alvarez, who plays a small role in Oppenheimer that you'll see.

02:28:53.000 And that he was responsible for radar in World War II as part of one of his jobs.

02:29:00.000 And he realized something that they could do.

02:29:03.000 So radar works by interrogating an object with radio frequency waves that travel at the speed of light and bounce off an object.

02:29:11.000 And you can get timing between when they get bounced off and when it comes back.

02:29:16.000 And you can measure the distance to them and you can measure the speed if you get a couple of those measurements.

02:29:19.000 That's how radar works.

02:29:20.000 And it's totally similar in concept to what you described with the advanced military instrument.

02:29:26.000 Luis Alvarez was a creative, incredibly brilliant scientist.

02:29:30.000 When he was working on that plan, he knew that the Germans and the Japanese could have similar technology.

02:29:35.000 And in fact, they were starting to develop it.

02:29:37.000 It turns out the Allies were good at not only the Manhattan Project, but they were good at developing radar and both were the technologies that were crucial.

02:29:43.000 But the Germans were developing it too.

02:29:45.000 He realized there's something called the inverse square law, which is that the signal gets weaker, not as the distance away from it, but it gets diminished by the distance to the second power.

02:29:54.000 Meaning that if, as you go away from something, the gravitational force that you feel, if I double the distance, is four times lower.

02:30:00.000 That's Newton's law of gravity.

02:30:02.000 The gravity force decreases as inverse square.

02:30:05.000 It also holds for radar reflections.

02:30:07.000 So Alvarez said, I could spoof the Germans by intentionally, when they send me a signal, I'm going to send them a signal when I'm coming closer to them, I'm going to take their signal, I'm going to diminish it, I'm going to shoot it back exactly as the inverse square, because he knew how far away they were too. 0.70

02:30:22.000 So he spoofed them and he transmitted the signal.

02:30:25.000 So even though he was getting closer, they thought, oh, nothing to worry about.

02:30:28.000 He's getting farther away.

02:30:29.000 And then the planes would blow up the radar sites and then they'd be blind.

02:30:32.000 Okay.

02:30:33.000 And now that's just one example.

02:30:35.000 Now, what would the German radar operator have said?

02:30:38.000 That object defied the laws of physics.

02:30:41.000 It was getting closer, but my radar showed it getting farther away.

02:30:44.000 I'm not saying that's what happened, Joe, but haven't I provoked a little bit of a doubt that maybe there could be other explanations other than alien technology?

02:30:53.000 In other words, you combined...

02:30:54.000 I don't necessarily think it's alien.

02:30:56.000 What do you think it is?

02:30:58.000 I think it's...

02:30:59.000 No.

02:31:00.000 I think there's a real issue with it being in these areas of heavy military activity.

02:31:05.000 I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that the United States has developed some black ops secret project where they've figured out a way to do something with drones that's unprecedented. 0.98

02:31:20.000 When they're talking about it openly, as soon as they start talking about it openly, crafts out of this world, I smell bullshit. 0.92

02:31:30.000 Like I said, I've said it multiple times in the show, there's something about this that doesn't feel real. 0.90

02:31:36.000 And I also gave myself the possibility that maybe if disclosure did happen, it would be so preposterous and so strange and alien just in the idea that there's life outside this planet and that it's more advanced than us and that it's been visiting us forever.

02:31:52.000 Maybe that would feel so fake because it's so crazy.

02:31:56.000 Yeah.

02:31:56.000 That there would be no context other than fiction movies.

02:32:01.000 So I wouldn't be able to fit it in anywhere and it would seem fake.

02:32:05.000 But that's not what I'm getting out of this.

02:32:07.000 When I'm watching all this, I'm like, man, I feel like someone's lying to me.

02:32:11.000 I feel like I'm being duped.

02:32:13.000 And I don't know why.

02:32:14.000 You know what really spoke to me?

02:32:15.000 And I felt sorry because, again, I haven't met Fravor and he seems like a patriot. 0.98

02:32:20.000 And again, he's got bigger balls than I do. 0.82

02:32:22.000 When he got back to the carrier, do you know what they kept doing? 1.00

02:32:25.000 Yeah, they're fucking with him saying he saw UFOs. 0.87

02:32:27.000 But a lot of those guys had seen him. 0.97

02:32:28.000 And they had not just seen him like one time.

02:32:31.000 They'd seen many of them. 0.99

02:32:33.000 And I just have this idea that if they were going to do something with some really advanced shit, wouldn't they do it in restricted airspace where the fucking military operates all the time? 0.97

02:32:43.000 Of course, is it weird that it's happening off the coast of Virginia and also off the coast of San Diego? 0.98

02:32:49.000 It seems to me that that's more likely.

02:32:55.000 But then again, then there's these instances of people encountering these things.

02:33:01.000 And the concept of interdimensional travel, whatever that means, whatever interdimensional travel.

02:33:08.000 I know Grush tried to sort of explain that in some sort of a strange way.

02:33:11.000 And physicists pulled it apart and said, this doesn't make sense.

02:33:15.000 That's not how it works.

02:33:16.000 But the concept of exposing other...

02:33:20.000 Like, wasn't there some...

02:33:21.000 What was this?

02:33:22.000 Let me find.

02:33:23.000 There's something I saved that I wanted to bring up with you.

02:33:28.000 Some...

02:33:28.000 God, was it like a new...

02:33:32.000 I'll find it.

02:33:33.000 But the point being that there was some new discovery that could lead to the possibility of travel to other dimensions, or at least detecting other dimensions in a manner where you could conceivably prove that there is something else outside of what we're physically capable of experiencing.

02:33:55.000 Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.

02:33:56.000 And that beings could come from there.

02:33:58.000 Okay.

02:33:58.000 That's where it gets.

02:33:59.000 That's next level.

02:34:00.000 That's a wormhole too far.

02:34:01.000 Yeah.

02:34:02.000 But it is true. 0.90

02:34:03.000 In fact, when I said the inverse square law, that is a very, very accurate way.

02:34:08.000 I want to find that.

02:34:09.000 Yeah, sure.

02:34:09.000 I'll just talk about this.

02:34:11.000 Please do.

02:34:11.000 In a higher dimensional space than three spatial dimensions plus one time dimension that we enjoy.

02:34:17.000 I found it.

02:34:18.000 The light and or gravity would decrease with an exponent greater than two.

02:34:22.000 And so these black holes that crash together and release gravitational wave energy, again, my friend David Spurgle, they've been able to set limits on the dimensionality of space-time.

02:34:32.000 And it's very, very close to three dimensions of space.

02:34:35.000 And from an object that's a billion light-years away, Joe.

02:34:37.000 So, yes, beyond that, anything goes.

02:34:40.000 But go ahead with your research.

02:34:42.000 I sent it to Jamie.

02:34:43.000 This is the thing.

02:34:43.000 It's definitely not my research.

02:34:45.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:34:46.000 Oh, fucking pop-ups. 1.00

02:34:48.000 New force of nature. 1.00

02:34:49.000 Scientists closed on a fifth force.

02:34:51.000 Oh, yeah.

02:34:51.000 So what is this?

02:34:52.000 They discover mysterious subatomic particles disobeying the laws of physics.

02:34:56.000 I just want to look at your face when you get incredibly let down.

02:34:59.000 Okay, here we go.

02:34:59.000 Yes, let me down.

02:35:01.000 So when we talk about forces of nature, so there are four main forces of nature.

02:35:07.000 Gravity that we're familiar with, right?

02:35:08.000 And then there's the electric force, and then there's the magnetic force, and then there's two types of nuclear force.

02:35:14.000 One is called the weak nuclear force, that's like radioactive decay, and then there's a strong nuclear force that's responsible for things like fusion and so forth.

02:35:23.000 When we look at these particles, we say for each type of force, there's a corresponding object that responds to that force, say it could be mass, like matter, like we're made up of.

02:35:32.000 And there's a boson, and the boson communicates the force to that massive object.

02:35:38.000 So the Higgs boson is what gives particles mass, and that's the mechanism by which we acquire mass and inertia, resistance to motion.

02:35:46.000 Electricity and magnetism, they're communicated by a boson called the photon.

02:35:50.000 The photon is the gauge carrying force that propagates the interaction between magnetic fields, electric fields, charges.

02:35:59.000 And then there's strong and weak nuclear forces.

02:36:02.000 This is saying that there seems to be a new calculation, a new data that's been discovered in what are called muons.

02:36:10.000 And these muons have a relationship between their charge and their spin. 1.00

02:36:15.000 And that charge-spin relationship, for one reason or another, should be exactly in a ratio of two.

02:36:20.000 So their spin versus their magnetic type of property to their spin.

02:36:25.000 And so this little dreidel, one of your last pieces of GIFs here.

02:36:30.000 So there it goes there.

02:36:32.000 It's a top.

02:36:33.000 See how long you can get that to spin for.

02:36:35.000 Okay, so what they're showing is that, so see that thing is not only spinning on its axis, but the axis is moving around, Joe?

02:36:41.000 Yes.

02:36:42.000 That's called precession.

02:36:43.000 That precession for a muon, you can think of as a little tiny spinning top also, and that will have a special relationship between its magnetic properties as it's spinning to its physical angular momentum, which is what this thing is doing.

02:36:56.000 It's like the procession of the equinoxes.

02:36:58.000 Exactly wrong.

02:36:59.000 No, no.

02:37:00.000 Yes, I think you're right.

02:37:02.000 It's still going.

02:37:03.000 No, it's true.

02:37:03.000 Yeah.

02:37:04.000 Okay.

02:37:04.000 And now I'm going to do something else for you.

02:37:05.000 Okay.

02:37:06.000 So you got that to spin for like, I will give you $100,000 if you can get this thing to spin in both directions over 20 times.

02:37:17.000 This thing?

02:37:17.000 This thing.

02:37:18.000 That's all I want you to do.

02:37:19.000 So, each direction.

02:37:20.000 What is this thing?

02:37:21.000 It doesn't matter what it is, Joe.

02:37:22.000 I found it in a crashed UFO. No.

02:37:25.000 No, that didn't count.

02:37:26.000 You can keep trying.

02:37:28.000 I'll give you as many tries as you want.

02:37:29.000 Okay, that's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

02:37:32.000 Now, do the other way.

02:37:35.000 Try it again.

02:37:36.000 What's the best way to do it?

02:37:37.000 I'm not going to tell you.

02:37:38.000 I'm not going to give you a hundred grand.

02:37:39.000 I'm just trying to...

02:37:41.000 I don't have Spotify money.

02:37:43.000 That was the original way you did it.

02:37:44.000 Now do it the other way.

02:37:46.000 Do it counterclockwise.

02:37:47.000 We'll get better at it.

02:37:49.000 Can't do it.

02:37:50.000 Why is that?

02:37:51.000 Look at it.

02:37:52.000 It's symmetrical.

02:37:54.000 Isn't that cool?

02:37:55.000 There's nothing crazy about it.

02:37:57.000 It's called a rattleback.

02:37:59.000 That thing has symmetry about more than one axis, such that when you spin it in the direction clockwise, it'll spin forever, like the dreidel.

02:38:07.000 But if you try to spin it the other way, it stops and goes back because there's torque being...

02:38:13.000 But that is the other way.

02:38:13.000 That's counterclockwise.

02:38:14.000 That's the first way.

02:38:15.000 That's counterclockwise.

02:38:16.000 Do it the other way.

02:38:20.000 Ah, interesting.

02:38:21.000 Yeah, isn't that cool?

02:38:22.000 But to the ordinary eye, if I just showed you this, it stops and goes the other direction.

02:38:27.000 So muons will have this property that they don't have this exact relationship that's predicted by theory.

02:38:32.000 Again, this is what scientists do.

02:38:33.000 They have a model for how nature should behave.

02:38:35.000 We make observations.

02:38:36.000 Now those observations disagree at a very significant level, such that the odds of it occurring by fluke chance is about 1 in 30 million or something like that.

02:38:45.000 And so now they're saying the one way to explain it is if there's another type of boson, which would mean another type of force, which would be the fifth force for those caping score at home.

02:38:55.000 So that's all that means.

02:38:56.000 It doesn't mean that there's like a wormhole and that they're communicating through it.

02:38:59.000 There are theories like that, but not for the muon experiment.

02:39:02.000 Okay.

02:39:04.000 What do you – bring it back to the UAB thing.

02:39:07.000 What do you think is going on?

02:39:10.000 Well, you know, the Occam's razor approach is to think about it as, you know, maybe it's a variety of sources.

02:39:17.000 First of all, Grush, where is he from?

02:39:19.000 Grush, sorry.

02:39:22.000 And I'd love to talk to him.

02:39:23.000 He seems like an interesting patriotic guy.

02:39:25.000 Well, he doesn't have physical experience with anything.

02:39:28.000 He doesn't even have direct eyewitnesses.

02:39:30.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:39:30.000 But he's not claiming he does.

02:39:33.000 What he's claiming is that he uncovered these programs that he thinks as a patriotic American and as a citizen of the world, that people should know that there's crash retrieval programs and that they are in possession of biological entities that they keep in freezers.

02:39:48.000 Again, I don't want to condemn him.

02:39:50.000 I don't want to have any smattering of an ad hominem attack, but I'll say one thing.

02:39:55.000 And just you tell me if I'm being an a-hole, okay?

02:39:58.000 He was given the opportunity, on perhaps the greatest stage I'll ever have, to name names and to say different things.

02:40:03.000 And he didn't name them.

02:40:04.000 And I've heard things from, like, Lou Elizondo indirectly.

02:40:07.000 My friend Kurt Jamungo has talked to him many times.

02:40:09.000 But I've never talked to him.

02:40:11.000 But they'll say things like, I can't do that.

02:40:15.000 It'll ruin my life. 0.92

02:40:17.000 And look, Joe, I'm a coward compared to both of these gentlemen, right?

02:40:21.000 But at a certain level in front of senators, congressmen, women, to say, like, I can't disclose that.

02:40:28.000 But you're a whistleblower.

02:40:30.000 Like, you're blowing a whistle.

02:40:31.000 You have protection.

02:40:32.000 We will protect you.

02:40:33.000 We will defend the frick out of you.

02:40:35.000 But he's not done.

02:40:36.000 What he's trying to do is get permission to discuss more things.

02:40:40.000 So he has permission to say what he said so far.

02:40:43.000 This is according to him.

02:40:44.000 Right.

02:40:45.000 He is attempting to get permission to discuss more.

02:40:48.000 These are the things that he could have discussed with them in the SCIF. That's why he brought it up this way.

02:40:53.000 He's trying to do this all by the book.

02:40:55.000 And it appears that there's both resistance and support for this.

02:41:00.000 Well, this is the argument I had with Avi Loeb when he came on my show.

02:41:04.000 He talked about this object, Oumuamua, which is this interstellar object that he claims is either a junk debris or maybe it's a tourist scout or a spy drone.

02:41:12.000 It's much more reflective, rather, right?

02:41:15.000 It has properties that can't be explained by the typical astronomical pedantic ways of explaining things.

02:41:20.000 And I told him when he came on my podcast, and I love Avi, I've had him on many times.

02:41:24.000 I said, Avi, you know, you happen to also be friendly, because I said, would you go, why don't you go after this thing and go track it down?

02:41:32.000 Oh, no, no, no, no.

02:41:33.000 He said, in a couple of years, one of the most ambitious and important observatories is coming online, and I'm happy to recommend people that work on it to you when it comes out, called the Vera Rubin Observatory in Chile, not too far from where our Simon's observatory is.

02:41:46.000 And that observatory, he said, is going to capture thousands of these things, if I'm right.

02:41:51.000 And I said, Avi, what if you're wrong?

02:41:53.000 You know, what if this is one time only event?

02:41:56.000 I said, Avi, I live in San Diego, and San Diego has the following properties.

02:42:01.000 It's the absolute best and easiest place to be a meteorologist on the planet, except for yesterday.

02:42:07.000 Freaking hurricane.

02:42:09.000 And a tornado and an earthquake.

02:42:12.000 But it's the absolute worst place to be a sportscaster because we, of all the major cities in the United States, we have never won a world championship in any sport, okay?

02:42:21.000 So it's horrible.

02:42:22.000 So last year, then the Padres got into the division series, and I'm a huge Padres fan.

02:42:28.000 I should not have said, well, the Padres are in the Division Series, even though it's the first time since Tony Gwynn was playing and they've been around for 55 years.

02:42:39.000 I'll just wait until next year.

02:42:40.000 No, no, no, no, no.

02:42:42.000 I tried to get tickets.

02:42:43.000 I scalped.

02:42:44.000 I couldn't get tickets.

02:42:45.000 Because you don't know if your calculations are correct, but if you believe in what you're saying, track this thing down.

02:42:52.000 Oh, by the way, Avi, you happen to know a guy named Yuri Milner, who's already paying your team and funding you, not personally.

02:42:59.000 He's funding a team called the Breakthrough Starshot.

02:43:02.000 Have you heard about this?

02:43:03.000 No.

02:43:04.000 They're going to send billions of little cell phone cameras to Proxima Centauri B. You're not supposed to laugh.

02:43:12.000 That sounds insane.

02:43:14.000 Anyway, they're spending $100 million on it.

02:43:16.000 And they're going to shoot these things there and they'll get there in 20 years and they'll transmit at the speed of light.

02:43:21.000 It'll take another four years to get back to the Earth because it's four light years away. 0.91

02:43:25.000 Instead of having him spend $100 million on that, why don't you get him to get a little CubeSat and shoot it off and go catch up to Oumuamua while it's still in your freaking neighborhood? 0.81

02:43:33.000 So that's totally possible to do? 0.59

02:43:35.000 Totally possible.

02:43:36.000 It's not impossible.

02:43:36.000 So you think he's resisting that because it doesn't...

02:43:40.000 He doesn't want it to be disproven because he's getting a lot of attention off of this idea that this interstellar object is something from an alien civilization.

02:43:48.000 I think that's too venal.

02:43:49.000 I don't think he's doing it for attention.

02:43:51.000 I just think he's too in love with his numbers.

02:43:54.000 He's too in love with his calculation.

02:43:55.000 Too in love with the idea of it.

02:43:56.000 There's so many of them.

02:43:57.000 There has to be a temptation to getting recognition.

02:44:01.000 Because I had never heard of him until a few years ago, and now I hear about him constantly.

02:44:05.000 He's in all these interviews, and this is not disparaging.

02:44:09.000 No, no.

02:44:09.000 It's just that there's an impulse that people have to continue to do something that gets them a lot of recognition.

02:44:15.000 Oh, sure.

02:44:15.000 I mean, this is the number one.

02:44:18.000 If it's possible to go take a look at that thing, how much would it cost to go take a look at that thing?

02:44:23.000 It would probably cost less than a billion dollars, say.

02:44:26.000 And this guy that he's friends with is...

02:44:28.000 Far be it for me to tell a billionaire how to spend his or her money, but I'm just saying...

02:44:31.000 I don't think you're going to talk Elon Musk into going on looking at it.

02:44:34.000 Right.

02:44:34.000 Well, Elon's another kid.

02:44:35.000 So I know you've talked...

02:44:37.000 So you have this piece of Mars, right?

02:44:38.000 So he's trying to get to Mars now, right?

02:44:40.000 He wants to die on Mars.

02:44:41.000 Yeah.

02:44:41.000 Hopefully, God willing, it won't be on impact, okay?

02:44:44.000 That would be horrible if he dies on impact.

02:44:46.000 But, Joe, I've ever thought, like, which one of his ten kids?

02:44:51.000 I mean, Kanai Nahara, he's got ten kids.

02:44:53.000 Who's he going to leave behind?

02:44:55.000 Like, who...

02:44:56.000 Like, to do that...

02:44:58.000 If he goes to Mars?

02:44:58.000 I think he's, like, he wants to go to Mars.

02:45:00.000 He said he wants to die on Mars.

02:45:02.000 By the time he is able to do this, they'll probably be fully grown adults.

02:45:06.000 Maybe they can go visit him.

02:45:07.000 They can come with him.

02:45:08.000 Apparently, the idea is to be able to come back.

02:45:11.000 Just like, okay.

02:45:12.000 I saw The Martian.

02:45:14.000 Did you like that?

02:45:15.000 Yeah, I love The Martian.

02:45:16.000 Andy Weir is a UCSD... He didn't graduate from UCSD, but he wrote it.

02:45:20.000 Yeah.

02:45:21.000 But...

02:45:22.000 I mean, it is possible that one day we will have the technology to colonize other planets, right?

02:45:31.000 Do we have the reason to do it, Joe?

02:45:34.000 What is the reason?

02:45:36.000 Isn't it sometimes the reason just to be able to do it?

02:45:39.000 Or maybe to ensure that human race survives if there's some sort of a natural disaster on Earth?

02:45:45.000 Do you know what Nixon wrote on the plaque that went to the moon on Apollo 11?

02:45:49.000 No, what?

02:45:50.000 He said, we came in peace for all mankind. 0.99

02:45:52.000 That's part of bullshit, right? 0.99

02:45:53.000 It was a war against the Soviets. 1.00

02:45:55.000 It was part of the Cold War.

02:45:56.000 And it was important.

02:45:58.000 It did a lot for science.

02:45:58.000 Guess what?

02:45:59.000 We haven't been back to the moon in 50 years, right?

02:46:01.000 So if it was so important for peace and for technology, why haven't we been back, okay?

02:46:06.000 So to say what we did, it's the Edmund Hillary thing, you know, climb Everest because it's there, right?

02:46:10.000 But Elon has said the following.

02:46:13.000 He has said, I want to go to Mars so that humankind becomes interplanetary.

02:46:18.000 Then you ask – I love to keep asking why questions, right?

02:46:21.000 Because they're so annoying.

02:46:22.000 Like your kids keep asking you why.

02:46:23.000 You know what the ultimate answer is because I freaking said so.

02:46:26.000 Go to sleep, right?

02:46:28.000 So with him, I keep asking why.

02:46:30.000 Why do you want to send people to Mars?

02:46:32.000 Why should humankind be interplanetary so that the flame of consciousness never gets extinguished?

02:46:41.000 Why?

02:46:41.000 Why can't you go under the ocean?

02:46:43.000 Why can't you build bubble cities? 0.95

02:46:44.000 Why can't you build floating cloud cities? 0.96

02:46:46.000 Well, if the earth gets destroyed.

02:46:47.000 Okay, but why?

02:46:49.000 Why what?

02:46:50.000 Why continue with humanity?

02:46:52.000 Not just humans.

02:46:53.000 He's talking about human consciousness, which could also mean like AI stuff or whatever.

02:46:57.000 But here's my bigger point.

02:46:59.000 You had Ryan Holiday on recently.

02:47:01.000 He's got these memento mori coins, right?

02:47:04.000 Memento mori means right. 0.80

02:47:05.000 Remember, you're going to die.

02:47:06.000 Allegedly, Roman emperors would have some courtesan walking next to them so they wouldn't have too much hubris. 1.00

02:47:12.000 They would say, remember, you're mortal, you're going to die.

02:47:15.000 That was done to motivate them to suck the marrow out of life while you're alive, right?

02:47:20.000 So my question at some level is, well, is that true only of individuals?

02:47:25.000 Right.

02:47:26.000 Or, like, could it be true of a civilization as a whole?

02:47:29.000 Could it be true that, like, hey, wait, we shouldn't be dedicating all this effort?

02:47:33.000 And I think it's—I wouldn't say it's as unlikely as life, you know, having iPhones on Proxima Centauri B, but I'd say it's pretty unlikely that we're going to do that in the next hundred years to have colonized Mars.

02:47:44.000 It's— It's incredibly difficult from a technological standpoint, from a biological standpoint, a psychological standpoint.

02:47:52.000 There's a tremendous number of reasons that it's not possible.

02:47:54.000 Sure, but if technology progresses the way it has since 1800, the world's unrecognizable.

02:48:02.000 You could conceivably say that if it continues in the same direction and we don't blow ourselves up, we may very well have the ability to do something like that.

02:48:10.000 And if you say why, well, why not?

02:48:13.000 Well, why not is always a good answer.

02:48:15.000 Because it's fascinating.

02:48:16.000 Right.

02:48:16.000 Because it's interesting.

02:48:17.000 Because people want to do it.

02:48:18.000 Because it would be significant to have human life living on a terraformed Mars.

02:48:23.000 To put it on our resume.

02:48:24.000 Maybe we could use Mars as like a test to like how to recharge an atmosphere if we fuck it up.

02:48:29.000 Right.

02:48:29.000 But isn't it better just not to fuck it up?

02:48:31.000 Yeah, it is better not to fuck it up.

02:48:33.000 But it's also interesting.

02:48:34.000 Like, why go to the moon?

02:48:35.000 Why send satellites out there?

02:48:37.000 Why look at stars?

02:48:39.000 Why all those things?

02:48:40.000 It's part of this human desire to constantly innovate and move forward.

02:48:45.000 But I question the Moore's Law kind of compatibility.

02:48:48.000 And actually, you talked about this with Michio Kaku.

02:48:50.000 And he was in his new book about quantum supremacy.

02:48:53.000 Mm-hmm.

02:48:55.000 Which is this kind of faith in these exponential curves.

02:48:58.000 And exponential curves are really tricky mofos because, you know, they sneak up on you for a long time like this, right? 0.82

02:49:04.000 Well, one of the things that they do after they do this is they do this.

02:49:07.000 They come down, right?

02:49:09.000 You've heard of peak oil and stuff like that.

02:49:11.000 There's only a finite amount of oil because there's only a finite amount of precarbonous fossil fuels, etc.

02:49:18.000 But it's worse than that.

02:49:19.000 As we get more and more kind of technologically capable, We get better and better at keeping the Ponzi scheme going in a sense.

02:49:28.000 Like the ore grade of gold used to be like in California, 1849, right?

02:49:33.000 They would stumble upon a huge brick rock of gold.

02:49:35.000 That never happens anymore.

02:49:37.000 The amount of gold per ton is like a gram per ton.

02:49:40.000 It's incredibly small.

02:49:41.000 And it's going down.

02:49:42.000 All these things are going down.

02:49:43.000 All these diminishing S-curves, they call them. 0.74

02:49:45.000 They start off really high and so you get the go-go 90, you know, and then it goes, drops off to zero.

02:49:50.000 There's no saying that that might not also happen for both extraction of resources that you need to build a colony on Mars, fuel, rocket parts, etc., but also for the coming AI and computing revolution.

02:50:03.000 In other words, Moore's Law is saturating For a very interesting reason.

02:50:07.000 It's not that the speed of the computers is still doubling, but the amount...

02:50:12.000 Do you care about the speed of your computer?

02:50:14.000 No, you care about what I can do with it, right?

02:50:15.000 How fast does the web page load up, right?

02:50:17.000 Well, so you can have the fastest computer, but it's loading really slowly because there's so many other people that want to take advantage and use that same resource.

02:50:24.000 It's a very highly in demand resource.

02:50:26.000 That will happen with quantum computing, too.

02:50:28.000 It's already happening with classical supercomputers.

02:50:30.000 In other words, their speed is going up, but the number of floating point operations they do is saturating because so many people want to use them because they're so good.

02:50:37.000 They're a victim of their own success in a certain sense.

02:50:39.000 Same thing can happen with mineral.

02:50:41.000 So the question is, do we get there?

02:50:42.000 And if not, well, what would that mean?

02:50:45.000 Would we have like a civilization existential crisis?

02:50:48.000 I don't know.

02:50:49.000 I really don't know.

02:50:50.000 But even all the things you just stated, isn't that just within our technological limitations as of today and our understanding of how to put together computers, our understanding of what technology can consist of in terms of minerals, in terms of like stable materials?

02:51:06.000 Yes and no.

02:51:06.000 But like I said, there's only so much carbon in the Earth.

02:51:09.000 There's only so many prebiologic fossils.

02:51:11.000 Can it be recycled?

02:51:12.000 Can we find new ways to use it?

02:51:14.000 Can't we figure out a way to...

02:51:16.000 Sure.

02:51:17.000 Yeah, we can.

02:51:18.000 But the question is, these different things have to overlap.

02:51:20.000 And actually, I just, you know, because I kind of was interested to go back just to the UAP thing for one minute, which was...

02:51:27.000 Think about the human factors involved in what Grush is describing.

02:51:33.000 Imagine that you have this ability to go back and start with like something happened in 1947 in Roswell.

02:51:40.000 Let's just say something happened.

02:51:41.000 It definitely happened, right?

02:51:42.000 So there were some people there that witnessed something.

02:51:45.000 They might have been in the military.

02:51:46.000 They might have been a research scientist.

02:51:48.000 People had to go there, identify it, notify people.

02:51:52.000 Then people had to go there and pick it up, clean it up, bring it in a flatbed truck, transport it, store it, keep it processed.

02:51:59.000 Then there's biologics, right?

02:52:00.000 He's saying there's biologics.

02:52:01.000 So biologics had to be processed by a biologist, not by the same corpsman who collected it.

02:52:06.000 And guess what?

02:52:07.000 All these guys have wives or husbands or bosses or friends and stuff.

02:52:12.000 So my friend James Altucher is a very big influence in my podcasting career as well.

02:52:17.000 He talks about a conspiracy number.

02:52:19.000 Like, what's the maximum number of people that can possibly be part of a conspiracy before it gets out, right?

02:52:25.000 Before it's exposed.

02:52:26.000 And there's also overlap between that and their time scales, right?

02:52:30.000 You're talking about a sustained conspiracy.

02:52:32.000 Let's give him the benefit of the doubt that this is true.

02:52:36.000 But this is now coming out now.

02:52:39.000 And you tweeted about this, or you mentioned this a couple of weeks ago on a podcast, I forget with whom.

02:52:44.000 But you said the atomic age coincided with the age of Roswell.

02:52:49.000 You mentioned that, and that's true.

02:52:51.000 And there was another thing that happened during that age, the quantum age.

02:52:53.000 So quantum mechanics, which is discovery of forces, fields, maybe fifth forces and unseen things, spooky action at a distance.

02:53:01.000 I think?

02:53:23.000 Right?

02:53:23.000 And all these things are united, and we have global climate change, right?

02:53:26.000 I always say, there's a concept called the von Karmen Line, which is the boundary between the Earth and the space.

02:53:31.000 It's about 60 miles, 100 kilometers above the Earth's surface.

02:53:35.000 And basically, almost everything that we're dealing with existentially happens below that line, right?

02:53:48.000 We're good to go.

02:54:10.000 Kept secret.

02:54:11.000 There's a probability of that happening, but we should be precise about it, and we should do that and not dismiss it, but also be precise about it.

02:54:19.000 Well, it also depends upon what kind of people you're talking about.

02:54:22.000 You know, if you're talking about only high-level military people that have a long history of being able to keep secrets, that it's a part of the culture, and these are the only people that have access to these vehicles or this thing, I could conceivably see how someone could keep something quiet for a very long time.

02:54:39.000 And then you have people that have claimed to have seen these things and worked on these things, and it's always hard when you're dealing with anecdotal evidence and people discussing things, and you don't know what's true and what's not true.

02:54:52.000 What is fascinating to me is, have you seen the Go Fast video?

02:54:58.000 Yeah.

02:54:58.000 What do you think about those videos where there's no heat signature, no visible means of propulsion, and these things are whipping through the sky?

02:55:07.000 I mean, you've talked to Mick West and other people, and I'm not saying he's a scientist in the sense that someone like I am.

02:55:13.000 But some of these things are, you know, it always comes down to like, well, whose data is it?

02:55:18.000 Right.

02:55:18.000 See, these are fighter jet pilots that are seeing these things, and they're discussing it.

02:55:24.000 Play that video so you could listen to their discussion of it while they're seeing this thing.

02:55:29.000 What do you think it is?

02:55:31.000 So when I look at those things, there's a couple of different things that you have to look at from an optical perspective, from a sensor perspective, from a...

02:55:39.000 Let me hear them talk.

02:55:40.000 Yeah.

02:55:46.000 So right now we're looking at this video where this thing seems to be trying to tracking it.

02:55:51.000 Their systems are trying to track it.

02:55:54.000 Oh, God!

02:55:58.000 So they're locked onto it now.

02:56:15.000 So obviously they're freaking out.

02:56:17.000 They locked onto it with their weapon system.

02:56:20.000 Yeah.

02:56:21.000 So there's something called scale invariance, which is where you can't really tell in certain phenomena.

02:56:26.000 Fractals are like, have you ever seen like the Mandelbrot set?

02:56:28.000 So no matter how much you zoom into it or zoom out of it, it looks the same.

02:56:31.000 And there are lots of features like that.

02:56:33.000 One of the manifestations of that is the ocean surface.

02:56:36.000 There are waves on top of waves.

02:56:37.000 You ever seen the beautiful Japanese woodcutter where it's like wave on top?

02:56:39.000 It's incredible.

02:56:41.000 So there you're seeing a lot of waves, but it's impossible to have any depth perception, right?

02:56:45.000 Because we're only getting a single view of it.

02:56:47.000 And there's a gyroscopic stabilization tool that they're using in the FLIR system that's measuring it, right?

02:56:52.000 So there is a heat signature.

02:56:53.000 That's how I can see it on FLIR if the four are looking in forever.

02:56:56.000 I mean propulsion.

02:56:58.000 It's universal.

02:56:59.000 It's not like there's something coming out the back, like a jet engine where you can see it clearly.

02:57:02.000 So there have been mock-ups and simulations done for this where it's like you could have a balloon, you could have something spherical, or something that's actually going with the wind.

02:57:10.000 Can't they detect how fast it's moving?

02:57:13.000 No.

02:57:14.000 Not from that video.

02:57:15.000 You can't necessarily.

02:57:16.000 From their systems?

02:57:17.000 From their weapon systems?

02:57:18.000 They can't detect how fast?

02:57:20.000 Clearly they're having a hard time locking onto it.

02:57:22.000 So I asked Ariel Kleinerman and Ryan about this, and they said it's classic.

02:57:26.000 Like, they wouldn't tell me what their radar is capable of saying, only that they can use it to determine certain properties of things.

02:57:31.000 But it seemed very evident in that video that they were having a hard time catching it, because it was moving at a very high rate of speed.

02:57:38.000 This is what, 2004, I think, this video?

02:57:40.000 Was that one?

02:57:41.000 Yeah.

02:57:41.000 So they're trying to lock onto this thing, and it's moving too fast.

02:57:45.000 And you see the crosshairs try to keep up with it, and then finally it locks onto it, and that's when they cheer that we got it.

02:57:50.000 And they say, look at that thing go.

02:57:52.000 Right.

02:57:53.000 Don't you think they would have an understanding of the speed that something's moving and not think of it as a balloon that's just floating around?

02:58:01.000 Well, remember, this is stabilized, so they're locking on, so they're moving in a perspective where it's...

02:58:05.000 Right, but don't you think their equipment has the ability to detect speed?

02:58:09.000 Do you know how big the field of view of that thing was?

02:58:11.000 I don't.

02:58:12.000 Yeah, so we don't either.

02:58:13.000 I don't know if they released how large they estimate it is.

02:58:18.000 I mean, this is all leaked video, right?

02:58:20.000 Right.

02:58:20.000 So if you were to look through this telescope at the moon, and there was a balloon floating in front of the moon, and you could see it, and it was big in a Chinese spy balloon or something like that.

02:58:31.000 And it's moving.

02:58:32.000 And you're moving.

02:58:33.000 And you don't know the relative field of view compared to the size of this object.

02:58:37.000 It may appear that it's going...

02:58:39.000 If that thing is the size of an Ember Air jetliner, yeah, that's freaking fast, right?

02:58:43.000 If it's the size of a balloon being carried by the wind that you are stabilized in a parcel of wind, it might not be that impressive.

02:58:49.000 We're assuming that there's wind.

02:58:51.000 We're assuming it's being carried by the wind in the same direction.

02:58:56.000 We don't know which way the wind was blowing.

02:58:58.000 But my point is that they seem to think that that was very unusual.

02:59:03.000 And these aren't guys that are just like, oh my god, a balloon, shoot it.

02:59:06.000 Well, that's why I went back to the...

02:59:08.000 Feeling of pity that...

02:59:09.000 And again, he doesn't even have pity.

02:59:10.000 But let's say your life, you were seeing these things.

02:59:14.000 And let's just say...

02:59:15.000 Let's forget it.

02:59:16.000 It's a Chinese war drone, military drone, that's coming to blow up the Nimitz, okay? 1.00

02:59:21.000 Or whatever they were on, okay?

02:59:23.000 And so you then, your compatriot, your comrade, comes back to the deck.

02:59:28.000 And you put, like, Independence Day posters on his rug.

02:59:32.000 And you've seen it, too.

02:59:33.000 It doesn't...

02:59:35.000 That's not what I would do.

02:59:36.000 If my kid comes to me and says, I saw, you know, the boogeyman or something, she's like really nervous.

02:59:41.000 I don't say like, well, you know, like, let me tease her about it.

02:59:44.000 Like, no, no.

02:59:45.000 Okay, I wouldn't do that to my kid, but I would definitely do that to my friends.

02:59:49.000 If one of my friends said they saw an alien, 100%.

02:59:51.000 Oh, Joe, you would do it.

02:59:52.000 I would take a rubber alien, I'd put it in their bed, have it tucked in. 0.99

02:59:56.000 Yeah, but just for fun.

02:59:57.000 And that's what those guys were doing to him.

02:59:59.000 You're making it seem like they, like, horribly insulted him. 0.99

03:00:03.000 They were just busting balls. 0.98

03:00:04.000 Let me say this. 0.98

03:00:05.000 Your pilot, let's say you charter a private jet sometime.

03:00:08.000 You're out with Lex and you're going to Vegas.

03:00:10.000 And you charter a private jet, right?

03:00:13.000 You're on the jet.

03:00:13.000 The guy is in there, is flying the plane.

03:00:16.000 And you found out that he actually was an ex-military pilot and he did see one of these things.

03:00:20.000 And so you get one of your friends, your buddies, dresses up as an alien.

03:00:25.000 Bust into the cockpit and starts, I'm the alien! 0.58

03:00:29.000 That seems like a silly comparison.

03:00:31.000 I'm just making a comparison. 0.99

03:00:32.000 What you're talking about is a guy who comes back from a flight claiming to have seen UFOs and his friends bust his balls. 0.98

03:00:38.000 This happened many times. 0.98

03:00:39.000 But that's in the military. 1.00

03:00:41.000 That's normal military shit. 0.99

03:00:42.000 But Ryan's saying the opposite now. 0.99

03:00:45.000 These people are scared for their safety now.

03:00:46.000 Now he's doing the Americans for Safe Aerospace.

03:00:49.000 And part of their mission is to protect pilots and destigmatize them.

03:00:52.000 This is because of close encounters with these things, right?

03:00:54.000 And destigmatize.

03:00:55.000 This is the square in a circle.

03:00:58.000 The cube around a sphere.

03:01:01.000 Is it a cube around a sphere?

03:01:02.000 Is that what it is?

03:01:03.000 It could be.

03:01:03.000 Which way is it?

03:01:04.000 Is it a black cube?

03:01:05.000 It's on my video.

03:01:06.000 I made a very expensive thumbnail for my video with Ryan Graves.

03:01:10.000 A sphere inside a cube?

03:01:12.000 Yeah.

03:01:13.000 So this sphere inside a cube is a repeating theme, right?

03:01:17.000 They see a lot of these.

03:01:18.000 On the East Coast.

03:01:19.000 On the East Coast.

03:01:19.000 Yeah, on the West Coast.

03:01:20.000 So do you think these things are drones?

03:01:22.000 What do you think these things are?

03:01:24.000 Well, do you remember the Chinese spy balloon, you know, that came about recently?

03:01:29.000 And do you remember how we didn't shoot it down?

03:01:31.000 Do you remember when that came about?

03:01:32.000 It was like right before this disclosure was about to get kicked off.

03:01:36.000 I mean, there's some weird things that are going on.

03:01:38.000 You connect those two things together, one thing that moves in a very bizarre way that they can't seem to replicate.

03:01:45.000 They don't know how these things stay stable at 120 knots.

03:01:49.000 According to all of his equipment, unless their equipment totally sucks, and this is like the equipment that got upgraded in 2014. Right, but then they say, I can't tell you about the equipment.

03:01:57.000 Right, but they can tell you that when the equipment was upgraded, that's when they started detecting these things.

03:02:02.000 So if the equipment is accurate, and the equipment is upgraded, and then they put it on these jets, and these guys are detecting these things, and then there's visual...

03:02:25.000 We're good to go.

03:02:33.000 They didn't say.

03:02:35.000 I'm sure that, well, I had Mike Baker on who used to be with the CIA and he was explaining all these Chinese balloons.

03:02:41.000 Oh, this is from, Eric Weinstein shared this yesterday.

03:02:43.000 He said there's these three different, it's on the screen, there's a map of three different NORAD shots that happened from time.

03:02:50.000 He just says, I don't remember these happening.

03:02:52.000 You know how much each one of those missiles cost, by the way?

03:02:54.000 No.

03:02:54.000 It's over a million dollars.

03:02:55.000 Didn't they miss once?

03:02:56.000 Yep.

03:02:57.000 Haha. 1.00

03:02:57.000 Where'd that fucking missile go? 1.00

03:03:00.000 These balloons, people don't realize it. 0.99

03:03:01.000 When you're at altitude, it's not like this.

03:03:03.000 So the pressure outside is almost equal to the pressure inside.

03:03:06.000 So if you shoot it with bullets and pepper it with a bullet, it does nothing.

03:03:10.000 It's just like opening a door in a warehouse.

03:03:11.000 You have to detach it from the payload.

03:03:14.000 That's why they shot it with a missile.

03:03:15.000 Oh, wow.

03:03:16.000 Those are a million bucks a pop.

03:03:17.000 But I wanted to just get back to the- The possibility of what they are.

03:03:21.000 The possibility of what they are.

03:03:22.000 So I always have to look for the simplest explanation of what they could be.

03:03:26.000 And certainly the simplest- I don't think anyone would disagree.

03:03:29.000 The simplest explanation is certainly not- These are interdimensional beings that have traveled across the literal equivalent- Of, you know, trillions upon trillions of miles or, if you like, thousands of light years or billions of light years as objects only to navigate that whole way and end up being sighted off of Catalina Island and Newport News,

03:03:50.000 Virginia.

03:03:51.000 Maybe they don't care if they get sighted.

03:03:53.000 Maybe that's part of their fun.

03:03:54.000 Yeah, right.

03:03:55.000 So then there's a teleological explanation.

03:03:57.000 We're trying to propose a mechanism by which that motivates some species or something to do that, right?

03:04:02.000 Now, Avi, to get back and give him his credit, because I don't want to be perceived as I'm denigrating him in any way, but he has built this Galileo project.

03:04:10.000 And I should say, I never got interested in any of this stuff, Joe.

03:04:15.000 Although, I do think if it were true, you know who should be the most interested in it are physics professors and physics researchers, right?

03:04:22.000 Because if this is true that they have mastered, there are creatures that have mastered the interdimensional manipulation of space-time, that would shortcut me and my colleagues four or five centuries, right?

03:04:33.000 And it would be just a revolution.

03:04:34.000 Think of the Nobel Prizes you could win, right?

03:04:36.000 Think of 10. If you were allowed to have access to it.

03:04:39.000 Right.

03:04:40.000 If they do have some sort of a back engineering program, who could conceivably be qualified to do that?

03:04:48.000 This is where I disagree with Eric.

03:04:50.000 I always say, Eric, you know, Eric is my atomic clock.

03:04:54.000 You know, they say like a broken clock's right twice a day.

03:04:57.000 Like, Eric's almost always right.

03:04:58.000 He's in my atomic clock.

03:05:00.000 So I get a great deal from Eric.

03:05:01.000 But when he says that these objects that we need, where are the theoretical physicists studying this?

03:05:10.000 I claim you don't really need theoretical physicists to study it yet.

03:05:14.000 You might instead want experimental physicists such as myself, my colleagues, people that are used to dealing with data, with sensors, with actually building technology, observing things, again, observing the skies.

03:05:25.000 We've been watching the skies in all wavelengths.

03:05:27.000 By the way, you only see it with visible light.

03:05:29.000 How come these aren't showing up only in the radar microwave region of the spectrum, infrared?

03:05:34.000 Why would they choose the narrow band of wavelengths that some marginal species of, you know, primitive apes, you know, evolved apes have sensitivity to, namely this narrow window?

03:05:44.000 This is infinitesimal.

03:05:45.000 You're saying why wouldn't they hide themselves?

03:05:47.000 Why wouldn't there be other modalities in which they're observed other than visible sightings, eyewitness sightings, which, in other words, why couldn't they manipulate the signatures that they travel?

03:05:58.000 Maybe they'd be neutrinos.

03:05:59.000 Maybe they could be using gravitational waves.

03:06:01.000 Who knows?

03:06:02.000 But that you don't need Edward Witten to help you with, right?

03:06:06.000 You don't need a theoretical physicist.

03:06:08.000 You need an experimental physicist, an observational astronomer who's used to looking through telescopes.

03:06:13.000 My whole job, Joe, Staring up at the sky with things like this in all different dimensions and looking for objects that don't seem to make sense or looking for phenomena that have never been observed before.

03:06:24.000 Why would you assume that they would want to hide?

03:06:26.000 I'm not saying they would want to hide.

03:06:27.000 I'm just saying they seem to be evasive, right?

03:06:29.000 Maybe just the way they travel is so insane that you can't really detect them.

03:06:35.000 They only go on Catalina Island and Newport News.

03:06:37.000 In other words, how come they're not over the observatory that's in western Texas that the University of Texas operates?

03:06:43.000 How come they get spotted Right over military bases.

03:06:45.000 Well, that's what I'm saying.

03:06:46.000 So does that lead you to...

03:06:47.000 So if I just told you nothing, but they happen to appear in restricted warning areas, military areas, would you say that makes them more likely to be aliens?

03:06:56.000 I wouldn't say that.

03:06:57.000 I wouldn't say more likely.

03:06:58.000 I would say if I was an alien and I came here to observe a territorial ape with nuclear weapons, I would probably check out where the nuclear weapons are. 1.00

03:07:08.000 I'd be like, what are these fucking crazy assholes up to? 1.00

03:07:12.000 They're blowing themselves up by dropping bombs out of planes, and they have enough missiles pointing at each other all over the world to essentially eliminate all life. 1.00

03:07:20.000 Well, that's the opposite.

03:07:21.000 I think I would look.

03:07:22.000 I think that's where I would look.

03:07:24.000 I think I would look over those military bases, and I think I'd maybe let myself be known.

03:07:28.000 Only in America?

03:07:29.000 Shut them all down.

03:07:30.000 Eh, America, we're the best.

03:07:31.000 We're number one.

03:07:32.000 We are number one.

03:07:33.000 The aliens know it.

03:07:33.000 I mean, there have been multiple sightings.

03:07:35.000 I'm sure you know about this.

03:07:36.000 Yeah, but if you look at the map of sightings, it's far more America.

03:07:41.000 It's a very American-themed idea, particularly because of Roswell.

03:07:46.000 Correct.

03:07:47.000 And you know that when Venus, the planet Venus, is not visible, that UFO sightings go down by over 40 percent?

03:07:53.000 Oh, I'm sure.

03:07:54.000 Well, I mean, you can explain away the vast majority of them.

03:07:58.000 And then you could also have...

03:07:59.000 There's people that hallucinate.

03:08:01.000 There's people that have...

03:08:02.000 They have mental health breakdowns where they actually believe that things happen that didn't really happen.

03:08:09.000 And some of those things could be a UFO abduction.

03:08:13.000 We know that people have wild, vivid dreams.

03:08:16.000 And then we know that the border to dreams and consciousness is...

03:08:21.000 Why all these UFO abduction stories at night?

03:08:25.000 Were you dreaming, Bob?

03:08:27.000 Bob, were you dreaming? 1.00

03:08:28.000 Did they really touch your butt and take your sperm? 1.00

03:08:31.000 You know what I mean? 1.00

03:08:33.000 It's not like they happen while you're at work.

03:08:37.000 It's not like they abduct you when you go to the restroom and all of a sudden something hovers outside the window and pulls you through.

03:08:44.000 You know what I mean?

03:08:45.000 It's like always in the middle of the night.

03:08:47.000 But let me ask you this.

03:08:48.000 So when I brought this up, when I first got interested in this, I was really – I should say I have this disposition as you've already uncovered that I don't believe that there's extraterrestrial technology in the whole universe with high confidence or even with moderate degree of confidence.

03:09:08.000 So therefore, I certainly don't believe that there are, you know, I'm not predisposed to believe that there are alien technology crafts visiting the Earth, right?

03:09:16.000 But when I talk about that and I say, look, there are these astronomers and there are these people like me who study things and NASA. And part of the reason I got interested to take this seriously is my friend David Spergel.

03:09:27.000 He's one of my mentors.

03:09:28.000 And he is leading NASA's UAP investigation for NASA, which didn't report last month.

03:09:34.000 And so on Twitter, this whole thing is like, well, how come you're not at the reporting thing and we don't have any reason to trust NASA? There's a whole subculture, which I think is like almost like denialism, whatever form you want to employ for that.

03:09:47.000 But that won't accept any explanation unless it's aliens.

03:09:50.000 And there's a huge subculture, right?

03:09:52.000 So how should I, as a scientist, interact with a lay person who's educated, well-meaning perhaps, but has this deep distrust of science, scientists, the scientific method?

03:10:02.000 I mean, I don't think they necessarily have a deep trust of science or the scientific method.

03:10:07.000 I think there's a large number of people that have a vested interest in believing that aliens are amongst us and that UFOs are real and that disclosure is about to happen.

03:10:17.000 Partially because it's fun.

03:10:19.000 It's very fun.

03:10:20.000 The idea of thinking that there's aliens out there is so exciting.

03:10:23.000 I love it.

03:10:25.000 Really?

03:10:27.000 But I'm also skeptical of things that just seem fake.

03:10:33.000 There's something about this whole thing that seems like a show.

03:10:36.000 And it really kind of brings me back to...

03:10:39.000 I mean, I'm not accusing people of mind control experiments, but...

03:10:44.000 It has been done in this country many, many times.

03:10:47.000 And one of the big ones was MKUltra and Operation Midnight Climax, where the CIA literally set up brothels and gave these Johns LSD and monitored them through two-way mirrors.

03:11:01.000 We know that there's been psyops before. 0.99

03:11:04.000 And when there's all this discussion about, like, out-of-world crafts and not of this world, and we have alien bodies, I'm like, yeah, fucking stop talking. 1.00

03:11:14.000 Show me some shit. 1.00

03:11:15.000 You know? 1.00

03:11:16.000 At a certain point in time, you're gonna have to stop talking and show me some shit. 0.98

03:11:19.000 Because right now, I'm like, I don't like the way this sounds. 0.99

03:11:23.000 It sounds funky.

03:11:25.000 Let's take a moment.

03:11:25.000 And this is someone who thinks that aliens are real.

03:11:27.000 No, I know you do, yeah.

03:11:28.000 I just think there's something about this.

03:11:30.000 Like, I believe Commander David Fravor.

03:11:32.000 I believe him.

03:11:33.000 I believe that he knows what he saw.

03:11:35.000 I believe he saw something extraordinary.

03:11:38.000 I'm just not...

03:11:39.000 I don't know where it came from.

03:11:40.000 Right.

03:11:41.000 But the idea that we had something like that in 2004 is even weirder.

03:11:44.000 Yeah, you're right.

03:11:45.000 That's even weirder because it's like, now we're talking about aliens.

03:11:49.000 There's a giant difference between 19 years ago, the physics of 19 years ago, our understanding of propulsion systems, technology, computing, everything.

03:11:58.000 iPhone plethora.

03:11:59.000 We didn't have an iPhone back then.

03:12:00.000 We didn't have anything back then. 0.99

03:12:01.000 We had shitty little fucking flip phones. 0.99

03:12:02.000 It's just such a different world. 1.00

03:12:05.000 Well, let me run this by you.

03:12:07.000 What the United States government did to Native Americans, tremendous atrocities, right?

03:12:12.000 But there was almost as much done – I don't want to say almost.

03:12:15.000 There was a lot of intertribal warfare where we would cause them to fight with each other.

03:12:21.000 And that was part of our strategy to atomize them and to reduce their capability to mount some kind of a force against the United States government, which is truly awful part of our history.

03:12:32.000 But, nevertheless, they, you know, so that there was also a plausible deniability.

03:12:36.000 Well, you Indians were fighting against each other, too.

03:12:38.000 It wasn't like you guys had, you know.

03:12:40.000 So, I'm wondering, at this level, is there a possibility?

03:12:43.000 They're going to set up alien wars, fake alien wars to blame them. 0.54

03:12:47.000 Or just anything that polarizes us, right?

03:12:49.000 Because that's good for them.

03:12:50.000 It allows them to sell, you know, Viagra, right?

03:12:53.000 I mean, something that attracts attention that's almost impossible to disregard.

03:12:57.000 I mean, anybody who's curious and knows what an alien is or has seen an alien, we've seen so much, But I don't know.

03:13:04.000 I don't know either.

03:13:05.000 I feel like if they kept it a secret for 80 years, that's very fascinating.

03:13:11.000 And if it is real, also very fascinating.

03:13:13.000 But there's just something about the way this is all being discussed that just feels fake.

03:13:20.000 And I don't know why.

03:13:22.000 And maybe it's real.

03:13:23.000 Maybe, again, maybe it is just my natural reaction to something that is so outside of the norm that I don't have a context for it.

03:13:32.000 I don't have a place for it.

03:13:33.000 There's a religious component to it.

03:13:35.000 There's a religious component to it.

03:13:36.000 Space daddy.

03:13:37.000 Yeah, the simulation hypothesis, right?

03:13:39.000 This is another one that people just look to and they act as an explanation why we don't have free will because they don't want to be held to their accountability.

03:13:46.000 I always say to these people like Sam Harris who doesn't believe in free will, I'm like, have you ever met someone, I don't know, have you ever met someone who acts as if they don't have free will?

03:13:55.000 I'm not talking about someone who's insane.

03:13:56.000 Imagine Sam Harris, totally rational, reasonable, brilliant, intellectual person.

03:14:01.000 But like him, but he's like, I don't believe in free will.

03:14:04.000 Therefore, I'm going to act in accordance with that belief.

03:14:06.000 I've never met somebody like that.

03:14:08.000 Like, I'm determined to do this because of the Big Bang.

03:14:11.000 Well, I think it's a complex or complicated scenario where you're trying to say that determinism is the only thing that causes people to do things and that you're not responsible or not.

03:14:22.000 You're not necessarily saying you're not responsible, but that there's you have no choice.

03:14:27.000 There's these factors all play a part of it.

03:14:29.000 It seems like a lot of choice.

03:14:31.000 It seems like we encourage choice in the right direction.

03:14:34.000 We discourage choice that we feel like is in the wrong direction.

03:14:38.000 It seems like there's a part of us socially, collectively as a group that wants the right choices to be made because we know that people have the ability to make decisions.

03:14:50.000 Can I ask you a podcast question?

03:14:51.000 Sure.

03:14:52.000 So you've done 2040, 30 something, Jamie?

03:14:56.000 Yeah, more than that when you count Fight Companions and MMA shows.

03:15:01.000 So have you ever gone back and listened to like...

03:15:04.000 No.

03:15:05.000 Okay.

03:15:14.000 Yeah.

03:15:24.000 And I've just wondered, you know, like, because I never go back and listen to my podcast.

03:15:28.000 I've listened to it.

03:15:28.000 I should not lie.

03:15:30.000 I've listened to a couple because, like, it was a Graham Hancock one and I wanted to reabsorb some of the stuff that he said or, you know, someone was just really interested.

03:15:38.000 Yeah, sure.

03:15:39.000 Yeah.

03:15:39.000 But what I'm getting at is, you know, writing a book and, like, encapsulating that.

03:15:46.000 I mean, surely you've thought about it.

03:15:47.000 And I'm just wondering, you know, a book is something different.

03:15:51.000 You know, it's really the operating system of humankind, whereas audio is incredible.

03:15:56.000 But, like, what are the odds your great-grandkids are going to listen to, you know, a preponderance of it versus the distilled wisdom of Joe Rogan?

03:16:04.000 Put into a book form for posterity.

03:16:07.000 I've definitely thought about doing that.

03:16:08.000 I'm just very busy. 0.99

03:16:10.000 It's hard to take the time to write a fucking book. 0.99

03:16:13.000 I'm not going to get any help. 0.99

03:16:15.000 No, no, I don't mean a ghostwriter.

03:16:16.000 I just mean people to, like, research and, like, well, this thing, thematically.

03:16:20.000 It would all be you, but it would be...

03:16:22.000 Yeah, I don't know.

03:16:23.000 I've bandied it about.

03:16:26.000 I'm trying not to overload.

03:16:28.000 I think people get a little too ambitious, and I've been guilty of it myself.

03:16:31.000 How so?

03:16:32.000 Like, just doing too many things.

03:16:34.000 Like, I do enough things.

03:16:36.000 Like, slow down.

03:16:37.000 And concentrate on the things I do more, you know?

03:16:40.000 What gives you the most life or most, like, energy force?

03:16:44.000 As far as occupations?

03:16:46.000 No, all these things that keep you busy.

03:16:48.000 But what thing causes time to pass such that you're in a flow state the most?

03:16:54.000 Oh, I don't know if there's any one thing that does.

03:16:57.000 You know, I think it's just all the different things.

03:17:03.000 I'm very fortunate that I have a lot of different things that I like to do, you know, in terms of...

03:17:11.000 And I have a lot of great people in my life in terms of family and friends.

03:17:15.000 So I'm just very fortunate in that way.

03:17:17.000 But they're all interesting in their own different way.

03:17:21.000 I think they all complement each other.

03:17:22.000 And that's one of the things that I like about doing podcasts and doing stand-up and even doing UFC commentary.

03:17:28.000 I think somehow or another they complement each other.

03:17:31.000 Do you ever, when you do stand-up, I was able to do a TEDx talk a long time ago.

03:17:37.000 And before I did it, I wanted to get the experience of bombing on stage in front of an audience of possible hostile people.

03:17:43.000 So I went to the comedy store in La Jolla and I did a set and I only wanted to do it clean because my wife and my rabbi was there.

03:17:50.000 So I tried to...

03:17:50.000 I did a clean.

03:17:51.000 I had some good jokes, I think, that I could work on the audience.

03:17:56.000 But it was after, like, you know, seven women talking about how they menstruated, this, and I was the only one who did this.

03:18:02.000 Was it an open mic night?

03:18:03.000 It was open mic, yeah.

03:18:04.000 It was just two minutes set.

03:18:05.000 I was the last person to go.

03:18:07.000 Well, I used my A material.

03:18:09.000 But anyway, we came out, and afterwards I was like, you know what?

03:18:13.000 You know, it was enjoyable.

03:18:14.000 I'm glad I did it.

03:18:15.000 I could say I did two minutes of stand-up.

03:18:17.000 But...

03:18:18.000 Actually, I didn't like the people in the audience.

03:18:22.000 I mean, they were drunk and like, whatever.

03:18:24.000 I mean, I think my wife was there, but my cousin.

03:18:27.000 Well, it's open mic night, first of all. 0.96

03:18:28.000 A lot of maniacs are in the audience.

03:18:30.000 Like, who's going to watch some amateurs do stand-up? 0.87

03:18:32.000 Oh, I know.

03:18:33.000 If you have a certain amount of time with your day, how many people are going to go watch amateurs do stand-up?

03:18:37.000 I guess I just felt like this.

03:18:39.000 I never felt like I didn't like my students.

03:18:42.000 And I'm sure you don't feel like you don't like your audience of podcasts.

03:18:46.000 But do you ever, when you're doing stand-up, it just seems like there's people in there.

03:18:49.000 First of all, there are people in there that want to see you mess up or heckle.

03:18:52.000 Not you, but I'm saying one, a comedy.

03:18:54.000 Sure, at a comedy club, for sure.

03:18:56.000 And especially at an open mic night.

03:18:57.000 Yeah, it's the dregs of humanity.

03:18:59.000 Yeah, exactly.

03:18:59.000 And on top of that, a lot of people that are there are there because they want to do comedy.

03:19:03.000 Exactly.

03:19:03.000 So you're doing stand-up to other wannabe comedians.

03:19:06.000 Some of them are out of their fucking minds. 0.99

03:19:09.000 Not some of them, like a good chunk. 1.00

03:19:11.000 Right.

03:19:11.000 Yeah.

03:19:12.000 And I guess the last couple of podcast questions, if you'd indulge me on them.

03:19:16.000 So, you know, when I think about, you know, the kind of animating impulse for me to do what I'm doing and trying to do, you know, Hardcore science and keep people interested and engaged and give the public some ROI and their money that supports my salary.

03:19:32.000 I'm a public – I went to public college, schools.

03:19:35.000 I went to public – I teach at a public school.

03:19:38.000 When I think about it, like there's – it's difficult to get a sense of pleasing your audience and then also doing legit science.

03:19:49.000 And I think – You know, finding that balance for me, that is hard for me, and I don't know, like, I mean, obviously one solution is stop podcast.

03:19:57.000 I mean, I'm not going to stop being a scientist because it's who I am.

03:19:59.000 It's physically written into my DNA almost.

03:20:01.000 Why would they be incompatible?

03:20:03.000 I guess, you know, it's like I could always be doing real science.

03:20:07.000 You know, I could always be, for every hour I'm reading a book of a guest that's coming up, I could be doing an hour with, you know, in the laboratory.

03:20:13.000 Right, but don't you, we've already talked about that what you're doing is very beneficial, and that you think that that's actually part of what scientists should be doing.

03:20:20.000 I think they look down on it.

03:20:21.000 Right.

03:20:21.000 Some of them look down on that?

03:20:23.000 Yeah.

03:20:23.000 Yeah, don't listen to them.

03:20:25.000 Fuck those people. 1.00

03:20:27.000 There's always going to be people that are purists and there's always going to be people that have negative comments. 1.00

03:20:34.000 You should only read so many things that people have said about your work.

03:20:38.000 And I think you get to a certain point in time when you're oversaturated and then you get overwhelmed.

03:20:42.000 And I see that happen with a lot of people.

03:20:44.000 I see that happen with a lot of people that come from academia and then they get into podcasting.

03:20:50.000 And it's very disheartening.

03:20:52.000 But you're just dealing with insane numbers.

03:20:57.000 So of course you're going to have a lot of negativity.

03:21:00.000 There's no ways around that.

03:21:02.000 It doesn't matter what you talk about. 0.88

03:21:04.000 I've seen some of the most fucking insane takes on some of the nicest people ever. 0.86

03:21:09.000 It's just you can't do anything about that. 0.95

03:21:12.000 There's certain people that are there and that's fine.

03:21:14.000 That's part of the way the world works.

03:21:15.000 I don't know why certain people like certain kinds of music or certain kinds of art forms.

03:21:21.000 It's just like people like different things.

03:21:23.000 And when you're talking about whether it's science or comedy or what, you're gonna have people that don't like what you do.

03:21:29.000 That's just how it goes.

03:21:31.000 And if I could do my last question, because I'd love to have you on my podcast, but I don't know if that's ever going to happen.

03:21:37.000 We're going to talk about aliens the entire time.

03:21:39.000 I would love it!

03:21:40.000 That would be my bread and butter, man. 1.00

03:21:42.000 I would kill. 0.91

03:21:42.000 I'd be number 10 on Spotify. 0.91

03:21:45.000 Yeah.

03:21:46.000 So I always ask the following question, which is related to the name of the podcast I mentioned earlier.

03:21:51.000 So Arthur C. Clarke had all these quips, and some of them are really funny.

03:21:54.000 One of them is like, for every expert, there's an equal and opposite expert.

03:21:57.000 That's true.

03:21:58.000 And he would say things...

03:21:59.000 Especially paid experts.

03:22:00.000 And this famous quote of any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

03:22:06.000 And then the name of my podcast comes from a statement that the only way to determine the limits of the possible is to go beyond them into the impossible.

03:22:13.000 And I always phrase that in terms of your 20-year-old self advice.

03:22:16.000 So, like, you were going back to Joe and, you know, back then, you're 20 years old.

03:22:20.000 You know, you had 30 seconds with him.

03:22:23.000 What are you going to tell him? 1.00

03:22:24.000 I ain't going to tell him shit. 1.00

03:22:26.000 I wouldn't tell me shit. 0.99

03:22:28.000 Why? 0.99

03:22:28.000 I wouldn't tell me nothing. 0.99

03:22:30.000 Why?

03:22:30.000 Because you figure it out on your own.

03:22:32.000 There's nothing I could have told him.

03:22:34.000 You need life, and you need a bunch of people that you interact with, and you learn, and you keep absorbing information, and you keep trying to do a better job at being a human being, and you get better.

03:22:46.000 But you're gonna have to go through it. 0.71

03:22:48.000 There's not a goddamn thing I can say to my 20-year-old self like, wow, This is the magic thing. 0.95

03:22:53.000 Like, it doesn't exist. 0.98

03:22:54.000 It doesn't exist.

03:22:55.000 It's a grind.

03:22:56.000 It's not like a Willy Wonka golden ticket.

03:22:59.000 Life is a grind.

03:23:01.000 It's a great grind.

03:23:02.000 It's a lot of fun, and if you have a lot of fun friends, you can really enjoy it. 0.77

03:23:07.000 But progress comes incrementally with a lot of fucking work, and you're gonna have a lot of heartache, and there's gonna be a lot of heartbreak, and there's gonna be a lot of disappointment, and then there's gonna be a lot of great moments.

03:23:22.000 And the great moments don't dwell on them too much. 0.94

03:23:25.000 You gotta figure out how to not get intoxicated by great moments and just enjoy it as part of the process.

03:23:31.000 And then just keep trying to do whatever you're doing.

03:23:33.000 Whatever it is you're trying to do, whether you're trying to do science, whether you're trying to do art, whatever you're trying to do.

03:23:39.000 That would be, if I give any advice, it's just like, Don't expect this.

03:23:44.000 Don't expect to hit the lottery. 1.00

03:23:46.000 That shit is not coming. 1.00

03:23:47.000 And don't expect the fucking golden age of retirement either. 1.00

03:23:50.000 Don't think you're going to get to 65 and one day I'm going to quit and then it's going to be amazing. 0.98

03:23:54.000 I'm going to sit on my porch. 0.99

03:23:56.000 No, you're going to die.

03:23:57.000 That's what happens to people when they do that.

03:23:59.000 They have nothing to do.

03:24:00.000 They get sad.

03:24:02.000 They get sad and they get bummed out.

03:24:03.000 Just enjoy it. 1.00

03:24:04.000 Just enjoy this fucking thing. 1.00

03:24:06.000 Would you want to live forever? 1.00

03:24:11.000 That would be the scariest thing would be doing it all over again.

03:24:14.000 Not living alive forever.

03:24:16.000 Because if you just were like, if I had, like, look, I love life.

03:24:19.000 I have a great time.

03:24:21.000 If someone said you have to do this forever, I wouldn't be terrified to do it.

03:24:24.000 Like, why not?

03:24:25.000 It's fun.

03:24:26.000 So you're saying I keep doing fun things forever?

03:24:28.000 Do I keep getting better at stuff?

03:24:29.000 Because if I can keep getting better at stuff, as long as I don't physically deteriorate too much, and I can keep getting better at stuff, that would be fun.

03:24:36.000 I wouldn't hate it.

03:24:37.000 Just like I don't want to die now.

03:24:38.000 Why would I not want to live forever?

03:24:41.000 It's a kind of weird sort of way of looking at it, because both of them are equally terrifying.

03:24:45.000 The idea of living forever is terrifying, and the idea of dying tonight is terrifying.

03:24:49.000 Yeah, I mean, I always see these guys, you know, Brian Johnson, you know, these guys are trying to extend their lives.

03:24:53.000 I'm like, you can't extend.

03:24:54.000 You can live forever.

03:24:55.000 And actually, it's possible that anybody can live forever.

03:24:59.000 But you can't be a greedy SOB. You can't be greedy and want your body to come with you and your money and your, you know, the denial of death is why they built these pyramids, right?

03:25:09.000 So...

03:25:09.000 Is that real, though?

03:25:10.000 We don't really know why they built those pyramids.

03:25:11.000 Well, yeah, I don't know.

03:25:13.000 You know that each pyramid has a base, the base of each pyramid, Joe?

03:25:16.000 Mm-hmm.

03:25:16.000 Is a multiple, an exact integer multiple of pi?

03:25:20.000 Did you know?

03:25:21.000 Yes.

03:25:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

03:25:21.000 I did know that.

03:25:23.000 Do you know why?

03:25:23.000 Why?

03:25:24.000 Because what they would do is they would measure back then, like a surveyor, they'd measure the distance with a wheel that would roll.

03:25:31.000 And the wheel has a circumference equal to pi times its diameter.

03:25:35.000 So they would get some number of wheel rolls and the circle was their measuring tape, basically.

03:25:40.000 So they would just count off how many complete revolutions of the circles.

03:25:43.000 Is this theoretical?

03:25:44.000 That's what they believe, yeah.

03:25:46.000 That's the best evidence.

03:25:47.000 There's a lot of weirdness to the pyramids.

03:25:50.000 Just the mass alone.

03:25:51.000 3 million or 2,300,000 stones.

03:25:54.000 Some of them from hundreds of miles away.

03:25:57.000 I know.

03:25:57.000 It's nuts.

03:25:58.000 It was the biggest thing until the Eiffel Tower.

03:25:58.000 Have you ever looked into any of that Younger Dryas impact theory?

03:26:03.000 This is the theory that coincides with the end of the Ice Age and it's also backed up by core samples where they believe that Earth was hit somewhere around 11,800 years ago and that all over Earth was hit with a comet storm,

03:26:20.000 you know, that we went through a barrage of large objects and it destroyed civilization and that There was an advanced civilization in Egypt and in many other places where there's actual physical evidence now.

03:26:34.000 Mexico.

03:26:35.000 Yeah.

03:26:35.000 Well, physical evidence now, Turkey and Gobekli Tepe, because back then they'd thought that 11,000 plus years ago it was just hunter-gatherers.

03:26:44.000 But then they found this Gobekli Tepe. 0.81

03:26:46.000 Did you know about that?

03:26:48.000 No, I've never heard of them.

03:26:48.000 It's fascinating because it's like very complex stone structures that are immense.

03:26:52.000 And they have 3D carvings on them, which is very unique.

03:26:55.000 And they have lizards, but the lizards are 3D on the outside.

03:26:59.000 It's not like they carved into the stone.

03:27:01.000 They carved the stone around the lizards. 0.99

03:27:04.000 And these fucking immense structures. 0.98

03:27:07.000 And then they've only uncovered 5% of them. 0.98

03:27:10.000 With LiDAR, they've found so many more of them.

03:27:11.000 That's what the 3D carved structures look like.

03:27:13.000 So they carbon dated all this stuff, too, because it was purposely covered somehow or another, and they don't know who or why, but it was purposely covered somewhere around 11,000 plus years ago.

03:27:24.000 And they think it was a comet?

03:27:25.000 I mean, that would seem to have astronomical evidence for it.

03:27:28.000 No, the comet thing is 11,800 years ago.

03:27:32.000 And they think again somewhere around 10,000 years ago as well, but it coincides with the end of the Ice Age, and it also coincides with...

03:27:41.000 There's a lot of evidence of iridium when they do the core samples, you know, in that area.

03:27:47.000 The element.

03:27:47.000 Yeah, and then also nanodiamonds from impacts.

03:27:50.000 Interesting.

03:27:51.000 It's very fascinating because it just speaks to, like, maybe civilization, maybe this isn't just this emergence from Genghis Khan to us today.

03:28:01.000 Maybe there was, like, a reset.

03:28:03.000 And maybe many thousand years ago, like, these people that built these structures.

03:28:07.000 Do some people say the lizards are like aliens?

03:28:10.000 No, there's no alien lore in this.

03:28:13.000 This is just humans that had reached a very advanced state and then got hit.

03:28:19.000 But it wasn't until this Younger Dryas Impact Theory that they had all the physical evidence that goes with this.

03:28:26.000 And when Randall Carlson discusses this, it's very crazy because he talks about just the immense amount of water that moved through North America In a very short amount of time, it just carved massive trails and canyons through the earth.

03:28:42.000 And he thinks it happened because of an instantaneous meltdown from asteroid impact.

03:28:47.000 Because we know that the U.S. alone was half of it was covered in more than a mile high sheet of ice up until that point.

03:28:56.000 And he thinks that's what caused it.

03:28:57.000 So it coincides with physical evidence for these core samples, and there's a bunch of legitimate scientists that are working on this.

03:29:03.000 It's really interesting.

03:29:04.000 I always say astronomers are kind of like space archaeologists.

03:29:08.000 Things travel through time and space, and we have to analyze them.

03:29:11.000 It's really fascinating stuff.

03:29:13.000 They don't have to deal with the multiverse with archaeology.

03:29:17.000 Well, listen, man.

03:29:17.000 April 8th.

03:29:18.000 April 8th.

03:29:19.000 Alright, we're gonna go check out and you say it's gonna be more insane than that.

03:29:22.000 It'll blow your mind.

03:29:23.000 I'm sure it will and I really appreciate you and thank you very much for the meteor and the shitty magnet and the good magnet and the stickers and the prism. 0.69

03:29:32.000 This is dope.

03:29:33.000 Happy birthday, man.

03:29:34.000 Thank you very much.

03:29:34.000 I really appreciate it and I appreciate your time.

03:29:36.000 Thank you for having me.

03:29:37.000 And then tell everybody how to get your podcast as well.

03:29:39.000 Oh, well, so the best place is BrianKeating.com.

03:29:41.000 That's my website and I have links to Spotify.

03:29:44.000 There it's called.

03:29:45.000 There it is. 0.99

03:29:45.000 Look at you, you handsome devil. 0.99

03:29:46.000 Thank you, my brother.

03:29:47.000 Then, yeah, there's our friend Eric, who we didn't talk too much about.

03:29:50.000 Yeah, he sends his best.

03:29:52.000 I talked to him today.

03:29:53.000 And I've done, yeah, I've done it.

03:29:54.000 14 Nobel Prize winners, 15 by Friday.

03:29:56.000 Beautiful, beautiful.

03:29:58.000 And BrianCady.com.

03:29:58.000 And they're very good.

03:29:59.000 Thank you very much for being here.

03:30:00.000 Appreciate you.

03:30:01.000 All right, bye everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - August 22, 2023

Joe Rogan Experience #2023 - Brian Keating

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