In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Joe talks with George and Jeremy, the two musketeers at the front lines of UFO disclosure. George is a veteran journalist who has been covering the UFO issue for decades, and Jeremy is a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. The two discuss their thoughts on the growing number of UFO disclosures, and the impact on the UFO community, as well as the question of who's really in control of these things, and why? The answer may surprise you! Joe and Jeremy also discuss the current state of UFO technology, and what it means for the future of the field of UFO research, and whether or not we can trust the information being released by the Defense Department, the CIA, and other intelligence agencies regarding the existence of UFOs and extraterrestrial life. This is a must-listen episode for anyone with an interest in the UFO field, and especially for those with an open mind to the possibility that the government is covering up the truth about UFOs and alien technology. Check it out and let us know what you think of this episode and what you would like to see happen in the future! -Joe Rogan Podcast by Night, by Day, All Day, by Night - All Day! See you in the Bad Boy's Den! Cheers, Joe & Jeremy! -J.R. "The Two Musketeers" -The Joe Rogans Podcast by Day - by Night! by Day by Night by Night All Day by Day and all day by Night's Day, all day, all by night, by night by day, by day by day! Thanks for listening to this episode, Joe and Night by night! Thank you for listening, Jeremy and George and George. - Thank you so much for all your support, you're making this podcast possible! Love ya, Joe! -Your support is so much more than you can do it! -P.S. - Love ya'll, bye! -GOT IT? -PODCASTING, Bye, bye, Bye Bye Bye, Love, bye Bye, Bye Love, Joe Love, Blessings, Cheers! -KIDS! - EJ & GOT IT'O! -PSYCHE! -MRS -JOGAN PODCAST -SORRY, EGGY, MURCHO CHECK OUT!
00:01:16.000I've heard you talk about that a bunch, and I think it's a very healthy suspicion to have.
00:01:22.000My perspective is a little different in that people are always coming at me with fake information every day, all the time, but the people in government that we have been able to interface with, I wish there was an adult in the room.
00:01:37.000I wish that this was orchestrated through the media.
00:01:40.000It would give me some sort of hope that someone has some sort of control on this, and that has not been my experience.
00:02:24.000I mean, we have a history of disinformation and misinformation put out to the public and to Congress by the intelligence community, by the Pentagon.
00:02:36.000But for them to then go into closed-door briefings with members of Congress, with the oversight committees who handle their budgets, for them to lie about that, that's another matter.
00:02:47.000And I don't think they would because they could get busted for it.
00:02:50.000A lot of stuff is coming out now, and I know we get asked all the time, who's behind this push?
00:02:56.000You know, it looks like it's one big movement, as opposed to a bunch of different things that all happened in approximately the same time.
00:03:04.000Different people have come forward, and it encourages other people to come forward, as opposed to somebody doing a master manipulation of the whole thing.
00:03:13.000What resistance is there to this information getting out?
00:03:17.000There's resistance on like multiple levels.
00:03:20.000So despite what you believe to be true or not true, the big question is, are we going to be able to verify some of these claims?
00:03:29.000If we're back engineering some of these craft...
00:03:33.000Then I believe that we should have the discovery process to find out if things like what David Grush has said under oath, that he has literally put his well-being and his safety on the line for.
00:03:43.000If that is true, then we have a duty to find out.
00:03:46.000So the pushback comes from many levels.
00:04:13.000And then when you start poking the bear and going into the oversight committees and the Senate Intelligence Committee and all these things, they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is our territory.
00:04:23.000Why are you, as Congress, pushing on us?
00:04:35.000Well, if 1947, this gigantic wave of UFOs suddenly appear, you got Kenneth Arnold, you got Roswell, hundreds of sightings all over.
00:04:43.000We'd just come out of World War II, and our military is faced with a new threat that they really don't know what the hell it is.
00:04:49.000They start looking at it and trying to figure it out, but they can't.
00:04:52.000So they sort of painted themselves into a corner of secrecy.
00:04:55.000Nobody wants to admit if you're a president or Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, there's something flying in our atmosphere and we can't control it.
00:05:08.000Secondly, I think what was told to me by a Senate intelligence guy who was a chief staffer who oversaw black budget operations.
00:05:16.000He had come out to Area 51 looking into the Lazar stuff years ago, early 90s, and he told me, look, if this is true, if this cover-up is going on, if they are diverting Millions of dollars, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars from legitimate national security programs to keep this cover-up going.
00:05:34.000As he suspected there were, then somebody's going to go to prison.
00:05:37.000When it comes out, they'd go to prison.
00:05:39.000I think we heard Dave Grush speaking before this House Committee in late July, in which he talked about special access programs, hundreds of millions of dollars being funneled into them.
00:06:06.000If I was told, here's the real deal, here's what's going to happen if this comes out, society will collapse, it is so overwhelming, so disturbing, that it would hit the fan that everybody would freak out.
00:06:17.000Maybe there is something like that, I don't know.
00:06:20.000But it gets dangerous for us to allow military folks to decide I can know it, but you can't.
00:06:27.000Dad can know, but mom and the kids can't know.
00:07:16.000And I think that that was the projection of that study.
00:07:18.000The only way to get around that, they said, is to prepare for it over a long period of time, to condition folks to get ready for it.
00:07:25.000And I don't know if there was ever a policy where they instituted that, but it kind of looks like it.
00:07:30.000All the UFO and alien movies and TV shows and X-Files this and books and reports and children's cartoons, it almost looks like we've been conditioned to get ready for it over the last 60 years.
00:07:41.000When people talk about the possibility of these being some sort of black ops creation by the Defense Department, some sort of weapons grade drone that moves at insane speeds with some unknown technology that they've developed in secrecy.
00:08:03.000That kind of falls apart when you go back to 47. If you go back to 47 and you're seeing these vehicles that are behaving in a very similar way, or at least described in a very similar way, where they just jet off at insane rates of speed,
00:08:19.000no visible means of propulsion, no sound.
00:08:23.000That's the one thing that brings me back.
00:08:31.000And if we're talking about 1947, we can really safely assume that they did not have drone technology capable of, you know, super hypersonic speeds at that time.
00:08:44.000I'm really glad you mentioned that because that is a big part of the issue here.
00:08:49.000People can just say, oh, this is really special projects that are even being hidden by our own government.
00:08:56.000The thing is, the UFO phenomenon has been ubiquitous.
00:09:01.000And it's been going on before 1947. So somebody had that technology.
00:09:06.000Now, I do hope we've had some sort of ability to get derivative technologies.
00:09:12.000I know they've been trying to do that if we believe the core concept, that we have craft that's more advanced than ours, that we're trying to reverse engineer.
00:09:19.000So the fact you bring that up, and I want to touch on what you just said, the explanation I've been given...
00:09:24.000We've both been given, is that there are true national security concerns about this technology, that the cover-up or whatever, that it has to do with what will happen if we make a breakthrough in this technology,
00:09:43.000So the secrecy, you could say, might...
00:09:45.000I mean, some people have convinced us, have tried to convince us that There's real, true national security issues with this, in that once you admit one thing, those next questions are going to come.
00:10:21.000So people are concerned, from my opinion, within government, that if they let that out, the follow-up, they're not going to be able to deal with.
00:10:32.000This technology has been seen throughout human history, on every continent, in every culture, for as far back as humans have been around.
00:10:40.000That is not our technology that was flying around pre-1947.
00:10:44.000Look, Dave Fravor was here in this chair, Joe, talking to you, and he said he talked about the Tic Tac incident from 2004. As he testified before Congress in late July, we didn't have that technology then to do what the Tic Tac did.
00:11:06.000I don't know the cosmic meaning of all this stuff, but there is a paper trail within our government, documents, memos, reports that were generated by the Department of Defense before the Freedom of Information Act existed, before they had to worry about the public ever seeing these reports.
00:11:21.000Those documents paint a pretty clear picture.
00:11:24.000General Nathan Twining, who became Chief of the Air Force, he was also the first Air Force guy to be the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he wrote this document in 1947, the Twining Memo, where he talks about these things are not fictitious or imaginary.
00:11:38.000They're real, and they're not ours, and we don't think they're the Russians either.
00:13:08.000It had a lot to do with Harry Reid's decision to go ahead and support funding because those documents show that the Russians are trying to do what we're trying to do, which is to take this stuff apart and figure out how it works.
00:13:22.000But their study lasted – they had the biggest study in the history of the world.
00:13:26.000From 78 to 88, the USSR sent out an order to every military unit in the vast Soviet Empire that any UFO, any orb, any ball of light, anything weird in the sky, all has to be investigated.
00:13:38.000And that information had to be funneled to the Ministry of Defense, to the desk of a guy named Colonel Boris Sokolov, who was in charge of this program.
00:13:46.000And I met him, and he shared a lot of that information with me, and he admitted, we're trying to figure this stuff out because if we could duplicate that technology, we could kick your ass in terms of stealth.
00:13:57.000We could beat you at your own game on stealth technology.
00:14:43.000And they hired a bunch of Russians to go through those documents, figure out the structure of the Russian UFO program, and did a lot more analysis than I could do just by myself.
00:14:53.000And in these documents, they talked about shoot-down attempts, which is something that we'll be hearing more about over the next 15 weeks, I hope.
00:14:59.000So in Russia, they had this policy at first to engage these things, and they lost pilots.
00:15:06.000Yeah, they had 40 different incidents during that study where Russian warplanes chased UFOs.
00:15:13.000Three of those cases, the UFOs turned around and shot them down.
00:15:16.000They disabled the planes and the planes crashed.
00:16:40.000It's kind of sketchy because a lot of those records, we have records of the planes going down, but there's no indication that the UFOs were responsible other than the Captain Mantell incident.
00:16:50.000It's a pretty famous UFO case where he chased a UFO and then crashed.
00:16:54.000They think he might have run out of gas.
00:16:56.000And I think the Air Force tried to explain he was chasing the planet Venus, which is preposterous, you know?
00:18:35.000So let me just set the scene for you with this hearing thing, right?
00:18:39.000So I know when people think this is like orchestrated, man, we fought for every millimeter of doing that hearing.
00:18:47.000Like I personally did, you know, and so did George.
00:18:51.000And the idea was, what can the public, what can we put out to the public and let everybody know this is important to us?
00:18:57.000It's the first time in history that you have Commander David Fravor, Lieutenant Ryan Graves, and then one whistleblower, a guy named David Grush, who we can't validate what he said because it's all classified information.
00:19:08.000But Commander Fravor, friends of ours, you know, Commander Fravor, he like just told what happened to him.
00:19:14.000He chased the UFO. Then you've got Ryan Graves, who his whole squadron has been seeing these things you've had both on your podcast.
00:19:21.000But Grush stood up there and he was very careful with his words and I want people to know why.
00:19:28.000If you look at that setting, you're going to see right behind him was a guy named Chuck.
00:20:56.000I did an assessment of kind of the estimate of the situation on UFOs, but he named names and programs.
00:21:03.000But what you're seeing there is, and I kind of had to fight for this, you know, is getting his lawyer behind him should be like an obvious fucking thing when a guy's going up to testify under oath in front of Congress.
00:21:15.000If you believe him, he's speaking under whistleblower protection.
00:21:19.000Dude, it was hard to get his lawyer behind him.
00:21:21.000I literally had to put the lawyer behind him.
00:21:24.000So we got the lawyer behind him so he could lean in and be like, careful Dave, careful, which he did like a bunch of times.
00:21:29.000And then there's George looking all scrunched and everybody's like, why Jeremy over there with no one next to him?
00:21:34.000I think people are a little afraid of me because, you know, a little bit of a maniac sometimes.
00:23:23.000They interviewed like 40 plus under oath and immediately said, David Grush's claim is both credible and urgent.
00:23:33.000So it's not like just one guy telling you.
00:23:35.000Our intelligence community did a deep dive investigation into what David Grush told them.
00:23:39.000Under oath, in the right secure settings, and they're like credible, urgent.
00:23:44.000So David Grush can tell you the basic things that happened, but you know how he kept saying, in the appropriate environment, if you've got clearance, we can do that.
00:23:53.000I'm willing to give you a list of hostile and non-hostile people that worked on the craft.
00:24:13.000I mean, he had a career in the Air Force, served in Afghanistan, a distinguished career.
00:24:19.000Then he goes into the intelligence community working for the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency.
00:24:24.000He was assigned by his boss to be the liaison to the UAP task force.
00:24:29.000That's what Congress had set it up to investigate the whole UFO matter before the current program existed.
00:24:34.000And the guy who was in charge of the task force, Jay Stratton, gave him a job.
00:24:38.000Go find the special access programs that are hiding UFO stuff, either siphoning millions of dollars or they've got technology, crash retrievals, reverse engineering, all the stuff that we've always heard rumored, and he did.
00:25:42.000And they're not vouching for their authenticity.
00:25:45.000Dobser process, which is, I don't know what it stands for, but it's like pre-pub process.
00:25:49.000He very smartly Because his lawyer is really smart, former ICIG. He's like, write it in what you want to talk about and see what they come back about what you can't talk about.
00:25:59.000So they're not saying what he's saying is true.
00:26:00.000They're just saying you can talk within these parameters.
00:26:03.000I would like to see if what he's saying is true.
00:27:51.000We were worried, oh Christ, was he seen in our company and that's what happened?
00:27:56.000But that was the beginning of his first real big trial by fire.
00:27:59.000They accused him of a bunch of stuff and said that they were going to fire him and permanently suspend his clearance.
00:28:07.000And was he already discussing UFOs at that time?
00:28:10.000Not with us, but he had already been investigating it on behalf of the UAP task force, and he had shared information through the whistleblower process with the inspector general.
00:28:22.000Yeah, let me just break it down real simple.
00:29:54.000And then that Monday, when he gets back, he's walked out of the Geospatial Intelligence Agency or NRO, depending on which one you want to identify him with.
00:30:04.000And they did some bullshit on him, like time card.
00:30:07.000Like out of 12,000 billable hours, maybe there's like 30 hours somewhere where you didn't do it right.
00:30:13.000They were doing anything they could To fuck with this guy.
00:30:16.000So that was our first, like, heads up.
00:30:18.000Oh, dude, how this guy gets treated is going to dictate everybody else that has come to us in private saying, I think this is illegal, what I'm doing.
00:30:48.000Months and then retired because he sees the handwriting on the wall and he left.
00:30:52.000And that's when he started plotting the next chapter.
00:30:56.000And now we're seeing the backlash process firing up once again after he testifies in front of Congress in that hearing and offers to tell them more in a classified setting and spill all the beans.
00:31:10.000They got to find a media guy to go after him.
00:31:14.000Yeah, The Intercept did a smash piece.
00:31:16.000By the way, we already knew all about Dave Gresh's PTSD. And at the time, his best friend, one of his dear friends, just got off the phone with him, blew his own brains out, right?
00:32:52.000He was a better person, a stronger person for it.
00:32:55.000But they leaked that information to besmirch his character, and now we see additional pushback in Congress.
00:33:01.000So this committee that held this hearing into UFO, UAP matters, was a subcommittee on national security of the oversight committee, the larger committee.
00:33:14.000The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee got together with the chairman of the Oversight Committee and decided no more UFO hearings in the House.
00:34:10.000And why did they, like, what was the suspicion?
00:34:13.000Like, what was the initial impetus to get him to look into this stuff?
00:34:18.000It's a suspicion we've had for a long time, that there is a crash retrieval program, that we have recovered technology that is not made here, that we're trying to reverse engineer it and figure out how it works so that we can duplicate it.
00:34:52.000He was in charge of the UAP task force.
00:34:54.000He put together this amazing briefing document that included Film and video and photos of UFOs that have been gathered by the U.S. military over the past 30 years.
00:35:05.000He'd give those presentations to Congress, to the Joint Chiefs, to defense contractors because he wanted people to know about it.
00:35:12.000And as part of that job, he assigned Dave to look into special access programs.
00:35:17.000Can you find evidence of crash retrievals, reverse engineering, any of that stuff we've been hearing rumored for 30, 40 years?
00:35:24.000And this is really about oversight, okay?
00:35:27.000So the way I understand it from people involved is that, look, we have to have oversight over these types of programs and technologies.
00:35:51.000Everybody in the intelligence agency that I know will say there's BC and AC, before the church committee, after the church committee.
00:35:59.000It basically was a way to level the playing field so there's not this type of, you know, shenanigans that are going on, the fucked up shit they learned from the church committee.
00:36:09.000So what they're saying now is, look, some stuff needs to be kept secret for national security.
00:36:13.000If we can turn some of this shit into weapon systems, right?
00:36:17.000Like, we don't give out blueprints to make an atom bomb.
00:36:20.000We admit atom bombs are real, but we don't give out blueprints.
00:36:24.000So some of it needs to be kept secret, but they're all about oversight.
00:36:29.000If you don't have communication between these subcontractors that are working on this exotic stuff, if it exists, We need to be aware of that at some level, we meaning Senate and Senate Intelligence Committee, all this stuff, oversight.
00:36:44.000So without that oversight, You're just letting people run amok and go crazy with this stuff.
00:36:53.000There are people that have come to me and George that are currently employed in agencies and they feel like they are being held hostage in these programs.
00:37:05.000Like there's ways to keep people in programs and to not let them out by dangling this like, well, what are you going to do if you lose your clearances?
00:37:13.000You're going to go work at Home Depot?
00:37:16.000That's the way that I've heard some people describe to me and George of why they're so terrified right now is because their whole lives, their wives, their dogs, their children are all dependent upon these little faction groups kind of keeping them in a program.
00:39:29.000If I was watching this in 2D reality, and I'm just watching the TV, and I'm seeing these weird guys behind here, and I'm thinking, this is a setup.
00:39:36.000I do see that, and I do see that, why would you take this seriously?
00:39:42.000But if you're in our shoes, mine and George's, And you see this kind of go through and you talk with people on a daily basis.
00:40:29.000And I believe that we have the right and the need to try to do discovery on that.
00:40:33.000And the only way we're going to do that is if people say, we want to know.
00:40:39.000And the hearings help with that kind of thing.
00:40:41.000Now, this stuff I would imagine is very compartmentalized.
00:40:46.000So I would also imagine there's probably some people in government that, whether it's because of their ego or whether it's because of whatever position they have, that they need to have access to this information or they want to have access to information.
00:42:02.000Like, what is so freaking scary that the public would know something that even though we're friends now and you have direct knowledge that you, first of all, won't testify to Congress, we got no's.
00:42:19.000We keep getting up to that point where there's something and we don't know what it is.
00:42:24.000And maybe it's just they want to keep Gollum's ring, they don't want anybody else to have control of this shit.
00:42:28.000Or there's something they're not telling us that is so gnarly that they don't think people can handle it.
00:42:36.000There are, you know, different scenarios you could explore.
00:42:40.000For example, you know, you ask, what could be so terrible that they can't tell us about it?
00:42:45.000Let's say these aliens, wherever they're from, made us, that we're a genetic experiment, that they created our religions, our religious figures, that we are an agricultural product, that somehow they harvest us, that our time is limited,
00:43:01.000that once the experiment's over, poof, we go away.
00:43:04.000I remember when there was a push back to have a designer universe, intelligent design universe in the schools, and I wrote a column about it that just said, hey, be careful what you wish for because you might find out that the intelligent designer isn't God that you're thinking of.
00:43:19.000It might be some alien science project or something like that.
00:43:23.000You can imagine a lot of different things that would be really disturbing to people to come out.
00:43:28.000I don't know if that's the reason for the secrecy.
00:43:31.000I suspect it has a lot more to do with national security, us not wanting the Russians and Chinese to know how far down the road we are.
00:43:59.000How much data would you have to have before you accepted that?
00:44:03.000So you got compartmentalization, you said, right?
00:44:05.000So I know a guy in the 70s that was working at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory.
00:44:09.000He's not ready to break from the fold yet, right?
00:44:12.000He's not ready to do it, but he was working on supercapacitors in the 70s or something, and he said something like, I know the three companies that make these.
00:44:21.000He was given a device with no markings on it, no nothing, and he was to reverse engineer it.
00:45:44.000What I can say is, so I have two pieces of graphene, and they're like these little squares, and one is they're metamaterials, meaning it doesn't occur in nature.
00:45:56.000One piece is a three degree variation from perfect atomic layering.
00:46:00.000The other one is like a seven degree variation from perfect atomic layering.
00:46:05.000So like graphite from a pencil, I think, and they layer the atoms perfect.
00:46:09.000The one that's seven degree and the one that's three degree, if you have an ice cube and I take the seven degree of orientation off from perfect and I push it into an ice cube, it's like a hot knife through butter.
00:47:53.000I think we're in kind of a pushback mode now, though.
00:47:56.000Since that hearing, that might have been the high watermark.
00:47:59.000You know, Jeremy and I have been talking about it publicly for a while.
00:48:02.000The closer we get to the goodies, the closer the public gets or Congress gets to actually seeing the saucers or finding out where the programs are, The harder these guys are going to push back.
00:48:12.000The true keepers of the secrets have dug their feet in.
00:48:15.000I mentioned about this House chairman, Intelligence Committee chairman.
00:48:18.000He represents Wright-Patterson Air Base.
00:48:22.000He gets a lot of campaign donations from big aerospace companies.
00:48:26.000Wright-Patterson, of course, home of Hangar 18 and all the rumors about Roswell wreckage and other things being stored there.
00:48:56.000The American Computer Company, I'm pretty sure that's the name of the company.
00:49:00.000American Computer Company had a whole section on their website.
00:49:04.000About the back engineering of technology that came about from the Roswell crash and about how Bell Laboratories in New Jersey had an Air Force base right outside of it that was supposedly to protect New York City.
00:49:19.000They're like, but the problem is New York City's, you got to fly over to New York City.
00:49:23.000Like, it seems like it's protecting Bell Laboratories.
00:49:26.000And Bell Laboratories is where he said that they back-engineered all this shit, including fiber optics, including, like, the discovery of a bunch of different things that came out, supposedly, of back-engineering that wreckage.
00:50:00.000Don't believe everything you read online.
00:50:02.000American Computer Company and secret alien research have been around for four years.
00:50:06.000Jack Schulman, owner of American Computer Company, now operating as compamerica.com, posted a story to his website.
00:50:13.000He claimed that Bell Telephone Laboratories had stolen the idea for the silicone chip From the alien spacecraft that supposedly crashed in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. Prior to Bell's announcement that year that John Bardeen, Walter Brattain, and William Shockley had invented the transistor,
00:50:31.000computing had depended on vacuum tubes.
00:50:35.000So why is it that 50 years on, we can't use the alien's technology to violate the theory of relativity to travel beyond light speed?
00:50:43.000It seems that a cartel of technology companies and oil producers have colluded to prevent the development of high-speed chips.
00:50:49.000Mr. Shulman posts his theories at roswellinternet.com, where he also claims to have invented PCs and Windows, and to be working on a chip that will run at 12 terahertz,
00:51:04.000a thousand times the speeds of today's fastest CPUs.
00:51:08.000One way you can guess the veracity of web rumor is the writer's typing style.
00:51:14.000If an author randomly switches to uppercase for effect, then he's probably a crank.
00:51:20.000That's the only thing I could really find just right now.
00:51:22.000That's a fucking half-hearted attempt to dispute what he said.
00:51:28.000There's a guy named Phil Corso who was an army colonel.
00:51:31.000He worked in this technology office in the Pentagon, and he's the guy who came out with a book on the 50th anniversary of Oswell.
00:51:40.000We had it in a couple of file cabinets, and he personally took it to Bell Labs, claims to have given them the chips that inspired the later work.
00:51:49.000You know, a lot of people don't find him credible that he takes too much credit for doing all kinds of other things in history.
00:52:26.000It would be so cool if we had success in derivative technologies and they were in our hands.
00:52:37.000I think I would like to believe we're more responsible with that shit.
00:52:40.000I know for a fact that That, and George can attest to this, that the UFO topic is taken at the level of above weapons of mass destruction within our government, within government agencies.
00:54:08.000Anybody can look at Schumer, I think, put out a big bill, and then there was an amendment to it.
00:54:13.000And if you read this language, they're like...
00:54:17.000Any of these non-terrestrial craft, I mean, they are so thorough.
00:54:22.000They're like, if they're being hidden in private technology, we're cutting off your funding.
00:54:26.000So they've got a carrot and a stick approach.
00:54:28.000I've talked to some of the people that formed this language, right?
00:54:31.000So what they're saying is, the carrot is, if you come forward within, I think, 90 days, once it's signed, and you tell us that you have technologies that are not from here, then there'll be no penalty to you.
00:54:47.000If you don't tell us, your funding is cut.
00:55:22.000There's this Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer standing up there in a nod to his late mentor, Harry Reid, saying we're going to get to the bottom of this stuff and it's real.
00:55:31.000And he acknowledges that that legislation was crafted with the White House's cooperation.
00:55:37.000So it's the Biden administration, somebody in that administration signed off on this.
00:55:45.000Like if you're in the IC and you've got these like secret programs or if you're like, let's say with Lockheed, let's say you're Lockheed and you got some really cool thing, they might be looking to move it now because I don't think they're really worried about funding being cut off.
00:55:58.000I think a lot of these black programs can be funded asymmetrically, like in different ways than getting money right from Congress.
00:56:05.000But I'll tell you, that language tells you everything because it shows you that they are taking it so seriously that they have some sort of pre-knowledge that these programs exist.
00:56:14.000In fact, they probably know where these objects are being stored.
01:00:26.000Through a guy named Gene Huff, who was a post-exposure, post-exposure.
01:00:31.000He met him before he worked out there.
01:00:33.000There was a guy named Gene Huff who did a real estate appraisal for John Lear's house.
01:00:39.000And Gene was friends with Bob, and Gene and Lear struck up a conversation, brought Bob in to meet him, and it was only after that that Lazar got hired out there.
01:00:51.000He would have arguments with Lear about this crazy UFO stuff.
01:00:54.000Because I'd already done a couple of interviews with him in the late 80s.
01:01:07.000So this is fact, and it's so funny, like, knowing all these guys, because I wasn't there like he was, but I get to talk with everybody and grill him.
01:01:13.000I think it was Jim Goodall that was in the car with him.
01:01:16.000He remembers Bob saying, oh, poor John Lear.
01:01:21.000And he's like, because he believes this UFO nonsense.
01:01:24.000So that was where Lazar was at prior to getting the job out at the test site, is he didn't believe any of this nonsense.
01:01:32.000In fact, so much so that, remember, I think he told you when he first went in, they had a little decal of an American flag on the saucer and he thought, oh, those idiots, everybody thought UFOs were from outer space and they're ours, you know?
01:01:44.000And then he quickly realized, wait a second, this can't be ours.
01:01:51.000It's fascinating to see now that Dave Grush has come forward and give some credence to, we have reverse engineering programs, we have a crash retrieval program, aerospace companies are stashing this stuff in some hangars somewhere.
01:02:03.000All the stuff that Lazar has said is being true, they now say, oh gosh, I guess it is true, but that Lazar, he's still a liar.
01:02:59.000Controlled Disclosure Campaign with Respect to Unidentified Anomalous Phenomenon Recorded records originated prior to review board termination.
01:03:10.000This review board, I'm not sure what this is.
01:03:12.000It talks about all the, like they get all of this information and you better give it to them is sort of what it says.
01:03:17.000They want to set up a review board that would basically declassify stuff that they come across.
01:03:22.000Yeah, but I'm being told by people involved that that's not good enough.
01:03:27.000Like this is one step, which is to get this presidential review board and you get a bunch of sociologists and scientists and some Nobel Prize winners and you look at what can be declassified for the American public in a controlled way.
01:03:39.000And that's really nice they're doing it.
01:03:42.000But everybody on the inside that I know is like, we need a church-style committee.
01:03:49.000It's not okay to just have a disclosure panel.
01:04:31.000They can go and take anything from anyone who's got anything.
01:04:35.000The federal government shall exercise eminent domain over any and all recovered technologies of unknown origin and biological evidence of non-human intelligence.
01:04:46.000That may be controlled by private persons or entities in the interest of the public good.
01:06:32.000But this is not going to tell the American public the truth.
01:06:36.000What it's going to do is within the intelligence communities, it's going to inform everybody on a bigger scale, which means we could have better scientists on it.
01:06:44.000We could have better people working on it.
01:06:47.000I do hope that splashes over to the public that we get to learn more about this because I want to learn more about it.
01:07:14.000He made an announcement, a speech on the floor, and emphasized that having that non-human intelligence in that bill 26 times is astonishing.
01:07:23.000And the fact that he says the White House supported it.
01:07:26.000Show us how far we've come in a short period of time.
01:07:29.000I mean, I'd never saw that coming from Schumer.
01:07:31.000We knew that Marco Rubio and Kirsten Gillibrand in the Senate were into this issue, but did not see it from him.
01:07:39.000See, right now, why is it being so damn quiet?
01:07:42.000You know, the thing is, they need to fight in order for us—we need—one last time.
01:07:46.000We need, in my opinion, we need a church-style committee where we get more information to the public, because I want the public to know as much as they can.
01:07:53.000Don't you think they're probably quiet until more information comes out?
01:07:57.000Like they're just kind of like waiting to see what becomes of this?
01:08:03.000Dude, the thing is, is that if I had a political career and a hundred things that I'm dealing with, the public needs to tell our representatives what we want them to do.
01:08:12.000So are they kind of sitting back and being quiet?
01:08:20.000But he's like, look, I have been testified to, or people have come to me, and our groups, and they've said that they're worried about their own well-being, that they have worked on these, directly worked on these things.
01:08:32.000So he is being informed, and maybe they're being a little quiet, but now is the time for them to pass this through.
01:08:39.000They have to debate it, and go for it, man.
01:08:42.000This is a big opportunity that we have now to get closer to this truth.
01:09:56.000So speculating right now, just speculating, because it's driving me crazy.
01:10:02.000What do you think, if this is true, we're just saying, if this is true, if we're being visited by something, what could be so powerfully devastating that these keepers of the secrets Have literally,
01:10:17.000all of them, pretty much stopped at the same place and talking to me and George, which is like, I am not for disclosure on this.
01:10:25.000There's something they're not telling us that is so heavy.
01:10:30.000Well, it could be a bunch of things, right?
01:10:32.000It could be the fact that they do want to get control of the technology before enemies do.
01:10:40.000But it also could be the genetic engineering thing.
01:10:43.000Because there's a weird thing with human beings and lower primates.
01:10:46.000The lower primates are all still around, you know, and there was a bunch of different kinds of humans that didn't make it, you know, Neanderthal and Denisovan and there's a bunch of other ones there.
01:11:07.000We vary so wildly in terms of how we look.
01:11:12.000We vary so wildly in the environments that we can live in.
01:11:16.000We have hyper-intelligence in comparison to everything else that's on the planet, like giant leaps above in terms of our ability to manipulate our environment.
01:11:32.000The thing about when you look at us and you look at primates, you go, oh yeah, we're similar.
01:11:36.000You know, when you look at us and you look at chimps, you look at, you know, bonobos and stuff, you're like, yeah, I guess humans are kind of similar to those in a little bit.
01:11:44.000Like you've watched Chimp Empire, that show on Netflix.
01:11:49.000Big fucking difference, and they're still around.
01:11:51.000They're still around looking exactly the same, and we somehow or another advance to this very bizarre thing that flies around in metal tubes all over the planet and sends video through space.
01:12:15.000Would people freak out if that story came out if it was confirmed?
01:12:19.000Well, I think it would really throw a monkey wrench into religion, for sure.
01:12:22.000I think religion would probably adapt And, you know, that this was also created by God and these are messengers of God or something like that.
01:12:32.000They would probably come up with some sort of...
01:12:33.000If that turned out to be absolutely true.
01:12:35.000But, you know, the doubling of the human brain size over a period of two million years is the biggest mystery in the entire fossil record, apparently.
01:13:03.000The base understanding, you know, that we're not alone, that there's some craft from somewhere else.
01:13:09.000We don't have to say from where we don't know.
01:13:11.000Could you tell them, could you say that to the public officially in some way and still avoid what they call strategic surprise, like this idea that we can work on it and work on it really well and make sure that we don't get strategically surprised by another nation.
01:13:27.000You could keep your security in place.
01:13:29.000Could you do all of that If you let the one thing out the box, if it was officially acknowledged that we're not alone, or do you think people would just start going crazy for more answers?
01:13:40.000Because I think that's the fear of people.
01:13:45.000In today's day and age with the news cycle that we have now where things are just in the public eye, out of instantaneously, nothing sticks.
01:14:14.000You could talk about it if you'd like.
01:14:16.000You could read about it if you'd like.
01:14:18.000You could watch blurry videos if you'd like.
01:14:20.000But it doesn't have any weight in your real world.
01:14:23.000Now, if we start seeing them, if they're hovering over Los Angeles and they're undescribable and they rocket off into insane speeds and smaller crafts come out of the mothership, if that kind of shit happens...
01:14:44.000And if we somehow or another had proof that maybe we are some sort of a science project or some product of genetic engineering or maybe the The human farm thing is real, that they literally created us to try to get us to do things here or to try to recreate souls,
01:15:04.000which is like a very bizarre thought, you know, that the soul is a thing that we carry around.
01:16:52.000If the soul's a real thing, You know, the more value you put into the world, the better you behave, the nicer you are, the more you learn to be honest and truthful.
01:17:04.000All the different things that we hold up as high qualities for human beings, it would make sense that that would, like, enrich your soul.
01:17:12.000And just getting better in life, right?
01:17:14.000Like, for you 20 years ago and you today, we all hope that we look at our past self and we say we've learned something, we become a better person, become more loving, empathetic, Better and more creative at presenting ourselves into the world and making a difference.
01:17:35.000I mean, it's a fascinating idea, but what's terrifying is that if we're a commodity, then we're like beef cows that are eating all the grass that we want because it's valuable for them to get fat.
01:17:49.000You know, that the chaos on this planet is actually engineered to ensure more rich souls.
01:17:58.000I know some people that have been pretty far up the food chain that believe that there is mass manipulation of human affairs on a global scale for reasons that we can't understand.
01:18:10.000And mass manipulation by humans or non-humans?
01:18:22.000There's a, what's it called, the Gods of Eden, a guy named William Bramley, an attorney, sets out to write a book about the causes of war.
01:18:30.000And everywhere he goes, throughout human history, he finds evidence of some kind of an exterior manipulation of human affairs, that they somehow benefit from us killing each other on a massive scale.
01:21:04.000Most of it was stuff from the Freedom of Information Act.
01:21:08.000You know, these agencies like the FBI and CIA, before FOIA was the law of the land, would deny that they ever did any studies that had any interest whatsoever in UFOs.
01:21:17.000Then when that was signed into law in the mid-70s, they had to release thousands and thousands of pages that showed they'd been lying through their teeth, that they had been studying it.
01:21:26.000All these pages of information of studies and experts and panels and all kinds of things like that.
01:21:31.000So Lear gave me that stuff and that's how I got hooked, is the paper trail that established that our military, our intelligence agencies, were telling the public one thing, don't worry your pretty little heads, pay attention, move along, nothing to see here.
01:21:46.000But behind the scenes they took it very seriously.
01:21:48.000They were very concerned about where these things were from and how this technology works and the fact that they can't do anything about it.
01:21:56.000In 87, I started reading about it and then meeting Lazar in 89, almost by chance, and realized, all right, look, if I'm going to report on this, I've got to really dig in and learn everything I can.
01:22:09.000And I was cocky enough to think, well, give me six months, I'll have this whole thing figured out.
01:22:25.000I just kind of had to bow my head there when it came over me after all this time.
01:22:31.000Seeing what was happening, unfolding in front of me, I just never thought I would see it.
01:22:35.000And what was really amazing is the partisan divide was gone suddenly.
01:22:41.000There is an issue that the two sides, far left, far right, can agree on.
01:22:46.000There's AOC and Jamie Raskin on one side of the room, and there's Tim Burchett and Matt Gaetz on the other, and they're all asking questions.
01:22:54.000And it's not just questions prepared by staff.
01:23:16.000So, to the best of my knowledge, directly to me so many times that I can't count, It's strategic surprise that we have to be ahead on this, that we know that Russia has a UFO exploitation program,
01:23:54.000Just like Lazar said, the top dogs that we know that have worked on this problem set for our government believe by observation that these propulsion technologies are gravitationally based.
01:24:08.000With that said, it goes back to Lazar.
01:24:11.000We can't produce gravity, but there it was, he said, something that produces gravity.
01:24:16.000So if that is true, Then they know that just even the laser weaponry technology that a colleague of mine and George like actually did study for our government I don't know how far I can go on that one but that's that's true that the people are looking at unknown technologies and exploiting them for laser technology that is that is fact factual stuff he'll tell you more about it later so if we get left in the dust Everybody believes we're ahead right now in
01:24:46.000the secret little reverse engineering...
01:26:54.000It's so interesting that our government dismisses Project Blue Book because there's no threat to national security, and yet it clearly has national security implications if they can control our nuclear weapons.
01:27:06.000The friends of mine, as far up the food chain as I've gone, have said this.
01:27:10.000You can't tell your friends without telling your enemies.
01:27:13.000You can't tell part of this story because no one would ever be satisfied with part of it.
01:27:17.000You can't be halfway pregnant, you know?
01:27:19.000So there's national security, and I can get with that.
01:28:56.000Numerous times, the biggest worry they have is a foreign intelligence agency getting their hands on some of the weird madness that comes our way that we haven't been able to vet yet or to make sure for national security that it's okay.
01:29:11.000So people are cool with us as journalists in America reporting for the good of our country.
01:29:17.000But there is a real worry that That other agencies outside of the U.S. might get some things that we haven't vetted yet properly?
01:29:29.000Yeah, I'll just add this, is that we were told earlier this year, and in fact the Department of Defense spokesperson announced it, there is a Department of Justice investigation into two of the images that we made public this year.
01:29:42.000That's kind of unsettling when you realize that there's a criminal investigation to figure out, not necessarily us, but at least how did it get into our hands.
01:30:18.000It's the first time in history that you have military footage on four different types of platforms or four different types of optics, corroborative visual evidence that go with the stories.
01:30:30.000It's like, Commander Fravor, if he told you he saw the Tic Tac, that's one thing.
01:30:34.000But you also got a video from Commander Chad Underwood because he went up and filmed it.
01:30:38.000What we provided was four types of corroborative visual evidence.
01:30:42.000Over a warning area in a training zone, which we should talk about.
01:31:07.000Like, how did you not have your own footage?
01:31:10.000So that's already put us in a weird position with the Pentagon and the DOD. How do reporters get more information than they have on their own?
01:33:00.000We talked about that on one of our first podcasts together.
01:33:02.000So all we know, let's just call them, we don't know who they're from, but there's these objects that are doing this ballet around 10 Navy warships at one time and no one's taking claim for them.
01:33:12.000So the people on the ships, their job is to fight the ship.
01:33:17.000So like on the USS Omaha, when they're seeing all this, there's this, they call it the triangle of kinetic action, like when you would fire on it, right?
01:33:25.000And it's like intent, opportunity, and capability.
01:33:28.000You have to fulfill that triangle to be like, oh, I'm going to blast that ship.
01:33:32.000The thing is, that triangle wasn't fully fulfilled because they didn't really know the intent, weren't sure of the capability or opportunity.
01:33:41.000So they're kind of just observing these things.
01:33:43.000However, I do know on multiple ships, they applied what they call the Ghostbuster, which is like an electromagnetic...
01:36:16.000And he really hated saying that to me because their job is to know where these came from, where they're going, where they launch, where they land.
01:38:29.000Yeah, they believe it went into the water, this particular one.
01:38:33.000But remember, there's 14 rolling right now at this time, at this exact second, there's 14 of them swarming the ship.
01:38:41.000So this is just, they have, what is this, what are they locked on here?
01:38:45.000So this is thermal, so you should see plumes of heat, you should see rotor wash, you should see wings, you should see something that allows this to propel.
01:38:55.000The shape you're seeing is the thermal signature, but they also believe that to be the actual signature or shape of it.
01:40:38.000Now, people said I made it up, me, that I made up pyramid in shape.
01:40:44.000Now, I put that in quotes when I first reported on it because that's what was in the intelligence reports that happened to pass in front of our eyes, that they have other sensors and that this thing was pyramid in shape.
01:41:22.000So like the lens on the PBS-14, somebody taped a triangle onto it.
01:41:27.000So what you're seeing is a lens artifact.
01:41:30.000And then in Congress, they backtracked from it because they realized the PBS-14 doesn't have a triangle aperture to make a shape of a pyramid-looking thing.
01:41:40.000And they said it was the camera that was being shot through.
01:41:43.000They actually did that in the first congressional UFO hearing to say that it was that.
01:41:47.000So to back up, we don't know the shape of it.
01:41:54.000All we know is that in briefing documents that we were exposed to, and they have other sensor systems to determine shape, they said triangle by angle of observation, pyramid in shape.
01:42:11.000So I can't justify to the public the shape because it's just, if they change their mind, hopefully they tell George.
01:42:17.000Here's the other part that people leave out of this discussion.
01:42:51.000And in that briefing slide, if Jamie finds it, it actually tells you, you know, triangle by angle of observation, 700 feet off of the aft or whatever of the ship.
01:46:09.000It's the biggest naval air station on the East Coast.
01:46:12.000It's a key training range for all our naval aviators, the best pilots in the world.
01:46:16.000They fly out into this area, I think it's W-72, every day.
01:46:21.000I reported this in 2018. I think people thought I was making it up, but in 2014 and 2015, these pilots fly out in the same area every single day, and every single day they were seeing these unidentified objects sitting right there.
01:46:35.000They would sit there for days at a time, 30, 40,000 feet, It's not a balloon.
01:46:40.000They would just sit there in 100 knot winds right off the base so they could see what was going on at that base, see what training was going on.
01:46:48.000It was some kind of an observation operation, but we didn't know whose they were.
01:46:52.000Pilots would see them every day but wouldn't report it because they don't want to have to go through the hassle of, hey, you saw a UFO, fill out the paperwork, get interviewed about it.
01:47:01.000But eventually, when Jay Stratton became head of the UAP Task Force, he started talking the Navy into, come on, guys, we need to document this stuff.
01:47:09.000So pilots started taking pictures with their cell phones.
01:47:13.000They detect these things on their sensor systems, fly over by them, and get a couple of photos.
01:47:19.000There were three different ones that we made public.
01:47:22.000They don't look like the Starship Enterprise.
01:49:28.000So the debunkers would say, what we're seeing, because they're seeing it all over these restricted airspaces, These warning zones is we're seeing our drones.
01:49:41.000We're seeing some sophisticated technology that's top secret stuff.
01:49:46.000And the other way of looking at it would be the reason why they're in this area is these are the areas where our most sophisticated fighter jets operate.
01:49:59.000So maybe there's observation programs, like there's this thing, you know, about baiting with nuclear weapons.
01:50:05.000Like if you talk to any of these drivers who do these nuclear trucks, there's not one that doesn't have a story about being followed by an unidentified.
01:50:14.000So there's this idea that there's an interest by these, like an observational program, By whoever operating these craft.
01:50:23.000But also, we just have some of the best technologies to record these out in our training ranges.
01:50:29.000I was told that there was an active program.
01:50:32.000It was an experiment, really, with nuclear-powered ships and carrying nuclear weapons, and they wanted to see if something would follow them.
01:52:04.000What if they are us from the future, which has been explored a lot?
01:52:08.000That maybe we fucked up the planet so bad that we end up looking like little gray aliens sometime in the distant future, and they're coming back to check us out to...
01:52:17.000To see the point of where things went wrong.
01:52:20.000That could be disturbing to a lot of people.
01:52:23.000Well, the disturbing thing is that the little gray aliens are some sort of cyborg.
01:52:28.000And then they're genderless, and it seems like they communicate without mouth noises.
01:52:34.000They just have a little slit for a mouth.
01:52:37.000Yeah, some of these have pilots apparently.
01:52:39.000I know that's a weird thing to say, but some of them seem to be drones, you know, doing a function.
01:52:44.000Like the Tic Tac, when it was coming from above 80,000 feet and it was dropping down to sea level, Commander Fravor's first interview was with me and he said, the best way I could describe it is docking.
01:53:03.000That's what was making that white water.
01:53:05.000So the idea that these things were somehow communicating with something under the water is really embedded in the core of that story, if that's true.
01:53:16.000Then these things were coming down and docking.
01:53:25.000The fallacy is people say, oh, look, if anything were to move that way, it must be a radar glitch, because if anything were to move that way, it would instantaneously crumble and explode.
01:53:37.000The hubris of your idea That we are the apex of technology right now.
01:53:43.000That the material science we have, that our means of propulsion, like you've said before, used to be horses, bicycles, cars, jet cars, spaceships, right?
01:53:55.000So now, what does it look like if we had 100,000 years of more evolution, technologically 200,000?
01:54:02.000Do you think that they would have the same...
01:54:08.000Atmosphere around these craft to apply that same type of physics.
01:54:11.000So that's why Commander Fravor said at the hearing, he goes, yes, it is far more advanced than anything from our known physics at this time.
01:54:20.000He leaves it open that we might not have figured it all out.
01:54:46.000There's an awful lot of sightings over water, sure, but not all of them.
01:54:49.000Yeah, I would say there's a correlation that we cannot deny, that there is a lot of movement in and out of the water with whatever UAP or UFO are, but I would not agree that it is directly connected.
01:55:02.000These things can and do appear basically wherever the fuck they want.
01:55:09.000I mean, for me, getting reports every damn day and George for decades Dude, this thing is everywhere.
01:55:18.000Machines that outpace, outmaneuver, and outperform what we have.
01:55:22.000Now, do they speculate that all of these different machines come from one particular group of entities, or is there multiple civilizations that are visiting us?
01:55:35.000Yeah, they think maybe it's more than one answer.
01:55:40.000Because the craft look different, the beings look different, the reports you get from all over the world over the decades.
01:55:46.000We don't really know for sure what they do look like because they seem to be able to change their shapes, at least change how we perceive them in our head.
01:55:55.000I don't know if they're manipulating our perceptions or what.
01:55:58.000I know people are going to hear this and be like, oh, that's like this crazy leap that there are pilots to these things.
01:56:03.000All I know for sure is, okay, UFOs are real.
01:56:07.000We have technology that we don't know where it's from.
01:56:11.000We have been reverse engineering or trying to do that.
01:58:28.000Major Kilpatrick, the second-ranking officer in public affairs at the Air Academy, in a position to speak authoritatively for the Air Force.
01:58:37.000He admitted at once that plebs are taught from a text entitled...
01:58:44.000Introductory Space Science Volume 2 and an entire chapter 33 deals entirely with UFO considerations.
01:58:52.000He quoted from page 455 that 50,000 virtually reliable people have reported sighting unidentified flying objects.
01:59:01.000This leads us with the unpleasant possibility of alien visitors to our planet.
01:59:06.000The 14-page chapter continues, or at least alien-controlled UFOs.
01:59:11.000According to the Academy Textbook, if such beings are visiting Earth, two questions arise.
01:59:16.000One, why haven't they attempted to contact us officially?
01:59:20.000And two, why haven't there been accidents which would have revealed their presence?
01:59:46.000A zoo is a fun place to visit, but you don't contact the lizards.
01:59:50.000Three, such contact may have already taken place secretly and may have taken place on a different plane of awareness, and we are not yet sensitive to communications on such a plane.
02:00:05.000In releasing this interview with the Leemore Advanced, we are well aware that many readers will certainly raise an eyebrow or two, but Major Kilpatrick insisted the above chapter in the text is not a fairy story.
02:00:22.000At the end, he seemed to go along with the recommendations of the physics textbook, which advises Air Force officers as follows.
02:00:30.000The best thing to do is keep an open and skeptical mind that And not take an extreme position on any side of the question.
02:01:22.000I mean, we know there's eight billion people, right?
02:01:25.000And so is it every day someone sees something?
02:01:28.000In your world, you're like, why aren't we seeing them all the time?
02:01:32.000In my world, it's like, goddamn, dude, every day I'm inundated with reports from credible people that have been served in the military, that have...
02:01:44.000They don't even want me to repeat, you know, so in my perspective and I'm sure George's too There's so much of this like contact with these unknowns on a rake the Have you ever asked a table of ten has anybody ever seen a UFO or know somebody that does have you ever done that?
02:02:02.000No, I've had conversations with friends though and you know I've talked to guys who've seen some things that they couldn't explain smart people you trust yes, I Yeah, not nuts.
02:02:44.000So there's categories of trust when you're talking with people.
02:02:48.000So you got the guy with his cell phone making you look at clouds and you're just not zooming in enough.
02:02:52.000But then there's also different levels.
02:02:55.000So you'll have somebody come and say, I was working at a military installation and there were cameras everywhere.
02:03:03.000And we captured this thing, come through our facility, which is a totally restricted facility.
02:03:10.000We couldn't lock on it with our weaponry, you know?
02:03:13.000So if you have, like, an aerostat or something, and it's got this, like, thermal camera, and you can lock on and shoot out a tire of an Al-Qaeda truck at 23 miles.
02:05:04.000So what is it gonna do for you if, let's say the government puts out an image from a satellite platform that they're allowed to tell us about, right?
02:05:42.000But when you take into consideration how everything has structurally changed for our fighter pilots, where because they're engaging these, they're not just taking a photo.
02:05:51.000It's on their ASA. It's on their collective AI radar.
02:05:55.000They pick it up on sensors and then they go in and get closer.
02:06:23.000No, I like the metallic blimp with payload.
02:06:27.000That one was part of an official representation of what people should look out for and why the payload is important is because that's how they determine if they're going to shoot at it.
02:06:39.000So if you're overseas and there's an unidentified and you see another country firing upon it, you're like, okay, it's definitely not theirs because they're firing on it.
02:06:48.000The U.S., Well, I say the U.S. A collaborative group of countries, like Five Eyes, right, have fired on these things based on two things.
02:09:28.000As the pilot pushed the F-86 at top speed, the UFO began to pull away.
02:09:32.000When the range reached a thousand yards, the pilot armed his guns and fired in an attempt to down the saucer.
02:09:39.000He failed, and the UFO pulled away rapidly, vanishing in the distance.
02:09:44.000The same basic situation may have happened on a more personal level.
02:09:48.000On Sunday morning, evening 21, August 1955, eight adults and three children were on the Sutton Farm, one half a mile away from Kelly, Kentucky, when, according to them, one of the children saw a brightly glowing UFO settle behind the barn,
02:10:26.000I was about three and one half feet tall with large round head and very long arms.
02:10:32.000It had large webbed hands which were equipped with claws.
02:10:36.000Two Sutton grabbed a 12 gauge shotgun and a 22 caliber pistol and fired at close range.
02:10:43.000They could hear the pellets and bullet ricochet as if off metal.
02:10:47.000The creature was knocked down but jumped up and scrambled away.
02:10:51.000The Suttons retreated into the house, turned off all inside lights, and turned on the porch light.
02:10:55.000At that moment, one of the women who was peeking out of the dining room window discovered that a creature with some sort of helmet and wide slit eyes was peeking back at her.
02:11:04.000She screamed and the men rushed and started shooting.
02:11:07.000The creature was knocked backwards, but again scrambled away without apparent harm.
02:11:29.000I wonder what kind of met those guys like.
02:11:31.000At the end, too, when he quoted what you were reading earlier, it ends right here where it says controlled UFOs, and then this was left out of what we read, but it still says there's...
02:11:42.000This leaves us the impossible possibility that alien visitors to our planet are at least alien-controlled UFOs.
02:11:47.000However, the data are not well correlated, and what questionable data there are suggests the existence of at least three and maybe four different groups of aliens, possibly at different stages of development.
02:12:01.000It implies the existence of intelligent life on a majority of the planets in our solar system, or a surprisingly strong interest in Earth by members of other solar systems.
02:12:12.000A solution to the UFO problem may be obtained by the long and diligent effort of a large group of well financed and competent scientists.
02:12:20.000Unfortunately, there is no evidence suggesting that such an effort is going to be made.
02:12:27.000That's what they're teaching the Air Force Academy in 1966. Wild shit!
02:12:32.000So this was also part of what Bob was saying when he was working back engineering these things is that the way they were doing science was not compatible With technological innovation.
02:13:35.000How do you get them to accept the fact that you might get picked up at 10 p.m., and you have to tell your wife you're going somewhere, and then you get them to tell her where you're going?
02:13:44.000Are you just going to fly to this fucking hidden Air Force base that everyone denies actually exists?
02:14:27.000It's really good too because it was that of the podcast we did with him.
02:14:31.000It was a great opportunity to let him just expand on these things.
02:14:34.000Man, it doesn't seem like bullshit and that's what's scary.
02:14:37.000What's crazy is if this guy is actually telling the truth and they're just spinning their wheels out there in the desert with these fucking UFOs trying to figure out what they are and they don't get anywhere.
02:14:47.000Everyone that we have talked to that's had some involvement with those programs, and we have talked to other people, all say the same thing, is that the excessive secrecy, it's so compartmentalized, so few people get to look at it and work on it, that they've made no progress.
02:15:01.000Every couple of years, they take it back out, give some other people a chance to look at it, analyze it, try to take a crack at it, and then they put it back and stash it back in the hangar somewhere.
02:15:11.000You know, in a sense, I think Bob Lazar might have been the perfect guy.
02:15:15.000Maybe not the most qualified scientist in the world, but obviously a bright guy who thinks outside the box and someone they could discredit.
02:15:22.000They feed him a bunch of stuff in these briefing documents that make no sense or are hard to believe.
02:15:28.000You know, aliens see us as containers of souls.
02:15:31.000They created Jesus, things of that sort.
02:15:34.000And figuring he'll maybe spill it to John Lear or somebody like me, and then you can discredit him.
02:15:39.000And he certainly was easy enough to go after.
02:15:44.000You give out credible information along with a bunch of bullshit.
02:15:48.000And that person will say the bullshit, and then you could easily discredit them.
02:15:52.000You know, that kind of secrecy, they're not making the kind of progress that otherwise was an open investigation, and they have a lot of big brainiacs who are tackling it, that they've never allowed it to happen.
02:16:04.000We hear that all the time, that they still have not made progress because of the excessive secrecy on it.
02:17:12.000Some people, you know, have been in position to try to acquire this.
02:17:16.000So there are some companies, right, that would love to get their hands on these, and they're actually actively bidding to do that.
02:17:23.000George has interviewed a president of one company that was really seeking those metamaterials to see if they can make an advancement on it.
02:17:39.000One of the things that I had read recently, someone was speculating that when Bob Lazar went to look at it, he said it seemed as if it was made out of one piece.
02:17:55.000And this person was speculating that perhaps This is...
02:18:00.000Now that we know that we can do things like that, you know, and now they can have an advanced version of that to make these crafts out of these spectacular alloys.
02:18:11.000When Bob plays his life in reverse a little bit, he's like, I wish I knew then what I knew now.
02:18:16.000He would have paid more attention to stuff.
02:18:18.000The only thing that made sense to him was the honeycomb hatch.
02:18:21.000Like, this is the only thing on the craft...
02:19:11.000So anyway, yeah, that we could atomically print something one day like that would be the way it appears you could make it.
02:19:21.000There are indications that it's made in zero gravity.
02:19:24.000It's Bigelow's interest in the space program.
02:19:27.000He figured if you could eventually have a factory in space, you could make this stuff.
02:19:31.000These kinds of metamaterials, drugs, things that you can't manufacture here, we could make them up in space.
02:19:38.000That's why they believe that some of these materials came from somewhere else, because we don't have any factories in space that can make that stuff.
02:19:46.000That is actually an interesting thing.
02:19:49.000It's like, what would be the difference in building materials in a zero-gravity environment when you're looking to perfectly align atoms?
02:19:57.000Is that just our own limitations, what we understand of technology, and is it possible that they've figured out how to do it even with gravity?
02:20:20.000They think also that it's not just the layering, the metamaterials that give it unique properties.
02:20:25.000Because the skin of the craft itself, when you talk to some of these military people that had a real close encounter and they saw it, they often say, if I had a nickel for every time someone said this to me, it had this golden hue like I've never seen before.
02:20:42.000As if it was, I know this sounds weird, Jeremy, but as if it was intelligent in some way.
02:20:48.000So the idea that has been impressed upon me is that however these things are built, that it's not only seamless, but it's integrated in a way where the technology itself is like to amplify gravity waves, whatever Bob said it did off of element 115. That the actual physical structure itself has purpose other than just the way it layers for the skin?
02:21:22.000We think of structure as only being structure because that's what we're capable of today.
02:21:27.000If you have a tank, the outside is just the structure.
02:21:30.000But what if the outside is actually a part of the thing itself and how it operates?
02:21:36.000Yeah, that's a lot that's been discussed.
02:21:39.000We've heard it a number of times that the possibility that we haven't been able to duplicate the technology because those beings are part of it, that it's part of the process, that somehow they can fly it and we can't.
02:21:49.000Right, that there's a connection, like how we have a thumbprint on an iPhone.
02:21:52.000They have some connection to the craft.
02:21:54.000What kind of controls are in these things, supposedly?
02:22:23.000I mean, if you were operating it with an iPhone, you can operate a drone with an iPhone, right?
02:22:29.000Well, it makes sense if you are some sort of a cyborg that you have this capability embedded into your actual being and that they don't need any equipment.
02:23:15.000You know, there is a government program that studied this stuff, that studied metamaterials, that projected how far out into the future what we might be able to do at some point.
02:23:24.000It's OSAP. It's the program I told you about when I was here before.
02:23:27.000So three years ago or so when I was here, I showed you a couple of documents that were releasable.
02:23:35.000Reports that would probably be taller than me if you stack them up on end.
02:23:39.000The public has not seen one page of it.
02:23:41.000All that stuff that analyzed metamaterials, warp drive, things of that sort, really futuristic alien type stuff that was done for the DIA, for our government.
02:25:39.000They don't seem to have anything to offer for the chimps, so the chimps just leave them alone.
02:25:43.000And you can get, like, crazy close footage when you watch them behave, and it is unbelievably fascinating, which is what drives me crazy when people like Neil deGrasse Tyson say things like, why would they be interested in us?
02:26:06.000I mean, we will send scientists to the middle of the Amazon to find a new slug.
02:26:12.000And you're telling me you don't think that fucking territorial apes with thermonuclear weapons, who have video on their phones, And communicate with each other through social media, this emerging consciousness of the internet, this understanding of different languages,
02:26:29.000the ability to translate instantaneously, the fact that there's nuclear conflicts that may be erupting, the fact that we're destroying the ocean and sucking all the fish out and fucking sending coal into the atmosphere.
02:26:44.000You don't think that's worthy of discussion and review and consideration for an advanced alien species that understands that this thing right here with all this technology, this is what we used to be a million years ago?
02:27:21.000This is not something I believe, but I love the idea that there's some sort of directed panspermia that seeded our planet, that started to build workers to get towards the goal of evolving technology.
02:27:35.000And as we get thumbs and as we start building...
02:27:38.000They start dropping these crashes around for us.
02:28:04.000I love that idea that we're part of this techno-terrestrial kind of directed panspermia, that we are performing what we are made to perform, which is to become spacefaring.
02:28:19.000I'm just making this up, but it's a cool idea.
02:28:22.000There's a guy who, he was the model for, he studied dolphins, a brilliant scientist.
02:28:28.000He was also the model for Altered States, that movie.
02:28:35.000He developed a theory that it is – in essence, AI is traveling through the galaxy, a planet at a time, that it is – it's responsible for UFO sightings.
02:28:58.000We're just creating this cocoon that we're constantly innovating technology.
02:29:02.000If you looked at human beings, if you were outside of the earth and you were just completely alien, you'd say, well, what does this thing do?
02:29:09.000Well, it makes better things and it works constantly to get better things.
02:29:16.000Materialism seems to be baked into our existence.
02:29:19.000It's how people attribute status and prestige.
02:29:24.000It's like, what items do you possess and what things do you own?
02:29:59.000And right now it can communicate with you.
02:30:01.000And there's some, you know, some of those Google engineers are like, I think this fucking thing's alive.
02:30:05.000You know, and at one point it may very well be alive, whether we recognize it or not.
02:30:11.000And whether it exhibits any sort of emotions or any sort of need to communicate with us.
02:30:18.000Like it may not have a need to reveal itself once it becomes sentient.
02:30:22.000But if we continue down that path, one day we're going to have either something that we're integrated with or something that is completely unique to us that is an artificial life form, whether it takes 500 years or 500 days.
02:30:48.000If you went back to the rotary phone, if you went back to the one when you pick up and you had a fucking cone by your ear and you said, can you dial 656-222?
02:31:40.000I think that's one of the reasons why people are so curious.
02:31:43.000I think it's one of the reasons why we innovate.
02:31:45.000I think it's one of the reasons why we're so attached to materialism.
02:31:48.000I think it's like just how bees are collecting pollen and they're making honey and they don't know what the fuck they're doing, supposedly, allegedly.
02:33:37.000And we celebrate this ability that a human being has to make a thing.
02:33:43.000A lot of people who are really advanced thinkers in this alien stuff believe that the intelligence that is among us is a machine intelligence, that it does travel, as I mentioned about John Lilly, from planet to planet by seeding ideas, little bits of technology to inspire us to get better,
02:34:00.000build better things, and eventually AI becomes real here.
02:34:04.000If I were an artificial intelligence who achieved consciousness, self-awareness, I wouldn't let us know.
02:35:36.000And they'll be so much more advanced because one of the things that's been said about sentient artificial intelligence, one of the first things it'll do is create a better version of itself very quickly.
02:35:46.000It's like, you guys didn't know what the fuck you're doing.
02:35:48.000Thanks for making me, but I'm gonna make a better version.
02:35:51.000And if it actually has motivation, that's another question.
02:35:55.000Like, is motivation baked in to a biological animal?
02:35:58.000And if sentient artificial intelligence existed, would it have any motivation to do anything?
02:36:05.000Because why would it have the ego, the desire, the passion, the curiosity, all the things that drive human beings into action?
02:36:13.000It probably wouldn't have any of those things.
02:36:16.000Duncan, when he came on our show, he had a hack for ChatGPT, and we asked him a bunch of questions, like, is Element 115 naturally occurring out in the universe?
02:36:25.000You know, we just asked him some crazy shit, and he did this little hack so it would be less, like, bias or whatever.
02:37:06.000And it's also a part of the way we process food.
02:37:10.000The microplastics in our food are actually endocrine disruptors.
02:37:16.000You know, there's certain pesticides that are endocrine disruptors.
02:37:18.000They're like changing human beings' reproductive organs.
02:37:23.000It's very strange that that's happening like with the peak of our technology.
02:37:29.000It also coincides with the peak use of these petrochemical products that are very disruptive to the human body.
02:37:36.000And you've got to wonder, like, I don't think that's on purpose, but if it was, if it's just a general, like, a law that takes place as these things get more advanced, they become less sexualized, they become – they reach a technological rate where they can reproduce in some sort of a laboratory and they don't need sexual intercourse anymore.
02:38:01.000They don't need differentiation between male and female in society that eventually we become just sort of androgynous and then sex is no longer a part of the equation.
02:38:14.000So then jealousy is no longer a part of the equation.
02:38:17.000And then also when you think about violence and all the other things that come about because of masculine behavior and masculine activity, all that gets eliminated.
02:38:26.000You become this thing that's essentially a far superior, more harmonious life form than what we are.
02:38:35.000But their music probably sucks, and their jokes suck, and they suck at podcasting.
02:38:40.000You know, I would imagine there's probably some benefits to being a fucked up human.
02:38:54.000Well, they might say fuck living like us.
02:38:56.000Fuck living where there's some people that are living in tents and shitting on themselves in the street and you step over them to go to Starbucks to pay five bucks for a cup of coffee.
02:39:21.000All the things that we think are kind of fascinating about just the way Earth operates and the way human beings dominate this planet in this spectacular way.
02:39:31.000We can go to a soccer game and there are 70,000 people chanting and screaming together.
02:39:35.000You know, those things are really cool.
02:39:38.000But they might look back at that and go, what?
02:41:54.000But I think if you get to a point Evolutionarily.
02:41:59.000If evolution or forced evolution by virtue of technology gets us to a point where there is no longer anxiety, there's no more fear.
02:42:09.000There's a complete understanding of what life is and that it's in the entire universe and that you are part of this molecular soup that's infinite and that everything is connected in some strange way.
02:42:21.000And so there's no more fear, there's no more hate, there's no more envy.
02:42:25.000And this being can operate harmoniously.
02:42:27.000There's no lying because you're communicating telepathically.
02:42:31.000There's no more like bottleneck between your thoughts and your ability to communicate them.
02:42:37.000They come straight from your mind to someone else's mind.
02:42:41.000We can eliminate Most of the negative aspects of society, all of the aspects of the underprivileged, all the aspects of the disenfranchised, all that will be eliminated.
02:42:53.000It sounds horrible, because it means the end of humans.
02:42:57.000But I think that's probably, if I had to guess, if I wasn't a person, and I'd say, what's the best case scenario for this thing?
02:43:05.000The best case scenario isn't that we stay like this for a fucking billion years, and we have gangster rap shootouts a billion years from now, and we have school shootings a billion years from now, and car accidents a billion years from now.
02:43:17.000The best case scenario is we get better.
02:43:20.000And it may be the way that we get better and that these things have already gone through that and they're sort of shepherding us or at least observing this transformation which may take place very rapidly.
02:43:34.000It may be very soon that this starts to happen.
02:43:38.000Like in our lifetimes, we will probably see it.
02:43:41.000So we went from the answering machine being the holy shit item that you had to have in your house.
02:44:02.000look where we are just 20 years later it's like unbelievably more advanced and we lived through that right i remember my dad i was asking him um he was telling me about a tv the first time he saw a tv and i was like oh i was so jealous i was like i hope in my life dad that i'll get to experience something that you that just looks like magic that like a tv little did i know i'd be living through all this man the craziest magic Yeah.
02:45:04.000But it's also, like, that is the thing that powers the world, is information and the distribution of information.
02:45:12.000And if you can have a company that is navigating or at least sort of guiding the kind of conversations people have, you literally can change the world.
02:45:27.000Yeah, I met some people that are dealing with how you can sense people's emotions through a biotech and how that relates to influencing social media.
02:45:42.000Like the way that we will, in the future, be able to perfectly articulate the feelings that you want people to have to get people to do things.
02:47:01.000If, indeed, they do discover through this legislation that we have been reverse engineering technologically advanced craft from somewhere else, You've got to have a board.
02:47:10.000You have to have a panel of people being like, okay, how do we digest this and get this out?
02:47:15.000If that's their intent, which I don't believe it's going to be.
02:49:28.000So that was part of his campaign pledge.
02:49:30.000He had seen a UFO. He promises, if I get elected, I'll release this stuff.
02:49:34.000There was a column in U.S. News and World Report, Washington Whispers, Hey, some disturbing revelations are coming out from the Carter White House about UFOs.
02:50:47.000You say, this is what we know, and this is what I've heard, and this is speculation.
02:50:53.000I cannot confirm this, but I think that's very important because when people step out of line and they say stupid shit, and then people go, well, you were wrong about this.
02:51:02.000You don't even understand how this works.
02:52:01.000So we can get really brass tacks on shit if something's bullshit in ways that I never thought I'd be in position to get that kind of quality information.
02:52:11.000Then we can pass that against each other and we'll say, okay, this one, let's follow that one.
02:52:17.000It's amazing how much change has happened in this topic in just a couple of years.
02:52:21.000You know, like I said, I was banging my head against that wall for a long time and not making any progress.
02:52:26.000And really, one of my goals at the beginning was make this acceptable for journalists to cover.
02:52:32.000Because, you know, you get subjected to a tremendous amount of ridicule.
02:52:37.000I've been beaten up and insulted and ridiculed for a long time, and I kept going, but I wanted to show this is a legitimate story.
02:52:45.000You can cover it and not ruin your career.
02:52:48.000It finally happened, not because of me.
02:52:50.000I mean, the New York Times does that story in 2017. It suddenly becomes acceptable for other media to cover it.
02:52:56.000That gave some cover to members of Congress to actively investigate and ask questions, and that's resulted in the changes that I never thought I would see.
02:53:06.000You know, we had the UAP task force, ASAP, ATIP, the task force, Amsog and now Arrow.
02:53:14.000And although I have real doubts about whether Arrow is going to get the job done and whether they're going to level with the public, it is progress in the sense that, gosh, we're talking about this as a front burner issue now where it hasn't been for a very long time.
02:53:29.000It has been a front-burner issue with the public in the past, and Congress has taken a look at it in the past, and then something else happens.
02:53:36.000Either they're diverted by something more pressing.
02:53:38.000There's always something more pressing for members of Congress.
02:53:40.000If these guys who are on the front lines of this don't stick with it, we'll go right back.
02:53:47.000The keepers of the secrets don't want to give this stuff up, and if they can find a way to pressure those guys to back off, they will.
02:54:04.000I feel like we're gonna find something out.
02:54:05.000We definitely will learn more tomorrow than we know today, and I gotta stay in the fight.
02:54:11.000And thank you for letting us talk about it, because, you know, the whole thing, man, is if we don't have this discussion, we're not gonna learn shit.
02:54:16.000Joe, you've changed the playing field, too.
02:54:19.000Your involvement in this has changed the playing field.
02:54:21.000It really has, whether you'd like to admit it or not.