The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2034

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Jeremy Jones, what's happening, baby?

00:00:14.000 Not much, not much.

00:00:15.000 We finally did this.

00:00:16.000 Yeah, trying to run out.

00:00:17.000 Yeah, man, playing you is a very humbling experience.

00:00:20.000 I should tell everybody that Jeremy Jones, professional pool player, the team captain of the Moscone Cup, which is the most prestigious international team tournament in all the world of pool.

00:00:31.000 But what I really enjoyed about talking with you for the last couple days is you're a very smart guy, a very interesting guy.

00:00:39.000 There's a lot of interest in all kinds of different things.

00:00:43.000 You're a very fascinating guy.

00:00:45.000 That's why you're so good at commentary.

00:00:46.000 Yeah, I guess so.

00:00:47.000 Maybe just growing up watching all that stuff.

00:00:49.000 And I think my parents, you know, they had pretty vast interest, even though maybe didn't afford it all the time to be able to, you know, kind of go with it.

00:00:57.000 But, yeah, number five of six kids, you learn a lot of stuff.

00:01:00.000 Well, it's just always been fascinating to me.

00:01:02.000 The people that are really good at pool are some of the fucking smartest people I've ever met in my life.

00:01:07.000 They just got that bug.

00:01:10.000 They got that bug to chase this one thing, geometry and pockets and balls and collisions and...

00:01:16.000 They got that bug to chase it, but some of the best players that I've talked to, they're some of the smartest people I've ever met.

00:01:22.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:01:23.000 I mean, that just tells you about the game, right?

00:01:25.000 How much there is to it.

00:01:28.000 Yeah, I mean, it's just, it grabs you, and, you know, if you're watching, paying attention to what goes on, it's like hardly ever the same thing.

00:01:35.000 Yeah.

00:01:35.000 You know, you don't realize how much control you have.

00:01:38.000 I thought Pool was kind of like a game you played waiting on a bowling alley lane, you know, prior to playing it.

00:01:43.000 Right.

00:01:43.000 I didn't know you could play it well.

00:01:45.000 I didn't know you could play it for a living.

00:01:47.000 You know, there's movies out there and stuff, but, I mean, it just didn't seem real.

00:01:52.000 How old were you when you first started playing?

00:01:54.000 I really planned 17. I was 17 years old.

00:01:58.000 Yeah, I started late.

00:01:59.000 I started really late.

00:02:00.000 I was 25, I think.

00:02:03.000 Somewhere around 24. 24 or 25. Yeah.

00:02:07.000 Yeah.

00:02:08.000 I worked two jobs and one of them, we'd have a few beers on the weekends at a pizza restaurant and play poker with our money, our tip money.

00:02:16.000 And one of the guys would go to the game room and play pool.

00:02:19.000 And he took me down there one day and Kind of hustled me a little bit.

00:02:23.000 We kind of knew each other like that.

00:02:25.000 The only thing I wanted to do was be able to beat him, Joe.

00:02:28.000 That's what I wanted to do.

00:02:31.000 So I quit one of the jobs.

00:02:32.000 I quit the pizza restaurant.

00:02:33.000 Went and got a job at the game room so I could play for free.

00:02:36.000 And kind of the rest is history from there.

00:02:39.000 Wow.

00:02:40.000 It's a game that just sucks you in.

00:02:43.000 I remember I used to go and play with my friend John.

00:02:46.000 And we would go to this place, Executive Billiards in White Plains.

00:02:51.000 And when we got there, you know, it was an interesting time because there was a lot of gambling going on in that place.

00:02:58.000 And the owner was a wild man.

00:03:01.000 The owner of the pool hall was this really eccentric musician.

00:03:06.000 Yeah, his name was Guy Azariti, but he would use the name Guy Hamilton when he performed.

00:03:12.000 He was this musician, like a piano player, a really good musician.

00:03:16.000 And he had some money from his career as a piano player, and he was really in a pool.

00:03:21.000 He loved the culture of it.

00:03:22.000 And so he was the owner of this joint.

00:03:26.000 And we were all just hanging out with him, having fun, and I would go there and it would be filled with people gambling.

00:03:33.000 And I was like, this place is wild.

00:03:35.000 And then I was watching like really good players play when I was, you know, just starting out.

00:03:39.000 Didn't know what I was doing.

00:03:40.000 And I was like, that looks so different than anybody else I've ever seen play pool.

00:03:45.000 Like the way they hit the ball is so soft and they're in such control.

00:03:49.000 And you're watching the ball spin off the cushions to get perfect on the next ball.

00:03:53.000 And everybody's like shaking their head.

00:03:55.000 Wow.

00:03:56.000 I'm like, that got me hooked.

00:03:58.000 That's what got me.

00:03:59.000 Yeah, I think the culture of it is a big, big part of it.

00:04:02.000 I mean, just being able to gamble and not take it personal.

00:04:06.000 You know, like you hate the casino when you go lose, right?

00:04:09.000 I mean, they're like cussing the casino, they're cheating, they're doing this, right?

00:04:12.000 But I mean, where I was at, we could gamble, and then we could hang out, you know what I mean?

00:04:17.000 And then we're on teams the next day, and we're not on, you know, so that to me was pretty fascinating overall, you know?

00:04:23.000 There's a culture that encourages more gambling, and the best way to encourage more gambling is to not have fisticuffs every time somebody loses.

00:04:29.000 Like, some guys just get too...

00:04:31.000 Like, it's a natural feeling.

00:04:33.000 The guy just beat you.

00:04:34.000 You're angry at him, but really, you should be angry at yourself.

00:04:37.000 Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

00:04:38.000 And it's just, that's what you're both trying to do.

00:04:40.000 It's an agreement.

00:04:41.000 Like, figure it out.

00:04:43.000 Yeah, I mean, you know, you beat a guy, you don't bust his chops too often, right?

00:04:46.000 You let him cool off, and then it all's good, but...

00:04:48.000 Everybody goes back to, like, McCready's character in The Color of Money, which is, apparently, from what everybody tells me from those days, really, McCready was probably, like, wilder than that.

00:04:58.000 No, I think I've sweated it, 100%.

00:05:00.000 Really?

00:05:01.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:05:02.000 Yeah, I was in with a player playing Keith, and I think they played something like four days or five days with, like, an eight-hour break or ten-hour break in the middle.

00:05:13.000 Wow.

00:05:14.000 You know, and if you stay there and sweat that kind of pool with those guys, you see stuff that...

00:05:18.000 That you're just not going to see, you know what I mean?

00:05:19.000 They get a little rum-dum, they get a little agitated, then they're hugging, you know, an hour later.

00:05:25.000 Oh yeah, it's crazy, yeah.

00:05:26.000 But Keith would definitely talk a little bit, you know?

00:05:29.000 He liked a little banner.

00:05:30.000 Those are the craziest legendary sessions when guys just gambled for three straight days in a row.

00:05:36.000 And people think it's bullshit.

00:05:37.000 But that's part of the thing about pool and gambling, is nobody wants to quit.

00:05:43.000 Oh, no, no.

00:05:44.000 You don't quit when you're up, and if you're down and you still got some fight left in you, this guy might get tired.

00:05:50.000 Or money.

00:05:52.000 I've seen him go through three or four steak horses in a night.

00:05:56.000 But I think you and I were talking about it earlier.

00:05:58.000 It's so much different these days.

00:06:00.000 When I went to the pool room, I was fully rested like 10, 12 hours because I knew I'm there to beat four or five guys.

00:06:07.000 I'm going to be there 20, 30 hours.

00:06:09.000 Wow.

00:06:10.000 Yeah, I mean, you know, that's what you want.

00:06:12.000 You want to put the parlay on them.

00:06:14.000 You want to take a somewhat small bankroll and try to run it through somebody.

00:06:18.000 That's a fascinating way to live your life.

00:06:21.000 It really is.

00:06:22.000 I mean, out of all of the things, if you talk about American folklore, just like American culture, all the poetic characters, the professional pool player is one of the most interesting because it is the least guaranteed job that has ever existed.

00:06:43.000 Yeah, there's lots of sayings.

00:06:44.000 I think it's the hard way to make an easy living.

00:06:47.000 Easy living is one of them, right?

00:06:48.000 But I mean, you know, if I was lucky, I was around some of the old school ones as well.

00:06:53.000 And the charisma is true.

00:06:56.000 You know, like if you see genuine charisma, I mean, it's a real thing.

00:06:59.000 Yeah.

00:07:00.000 And that's what the old guys had.

00:07:02.000 The young guys have it too, but it's just a little different.

00:07:05.000 Well, everyone seems...

00:07:07.000 It's interesting because it seems like Poole is just like every other thing in that the guys today are as good if not better than anybody that's ever existed.

00:07:17.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:07:18.000 There's more of them.

00:07:19.000 That's the problem.

00:07:20.000 There are so many of them.

00:07:21.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:07:22.000 I'm so impressed.

00:07:23.000 I mean, Europe, Asia, you know, guys from Taiwan, guys from China, guys from Japan, guys from Spain.

00:07:32.000 It's like, whoa!

00:07:35.000 Killers!

00:07:36.000 Most global sport there is, I think.

00:07:38.000 It's amazing how much talent there is out there.

00:07:43.000 Like, I'm just so impressed with what the level is now.

00:07:47.000 Because if you, like, no disrespect to anybody who played back in the day, but if you go back and you watch a tournament from like the 80s versus you watch how these guys are playing now, it's almost like it's a completely different game.

00:07:59.000 Yeah.

00:07:59.000 Different style, rather.

00:08:01.000 Yeah, I think the equipment allows for that, too.

00:08:04.000 You know what I mean?

00:08:05.000 Yeah.

00:08:06.000 And the training.

00:08:07.000 I mean, these guys, you know, you had Federer Gorst.

00:08:09.000 I'm sure you all talked about his regimen, right?

00:08:12.000 He's my perfect example.

00:08:14.000 He's almost playing like a totally different style of pool.

00:08:17.000 Like, his style of pool is like...

00:08:20.000 It's so perfect.

00:08:21.000 Like, his position, the way he stands with his body, how rigid it is.

00:08:25.000 It's like, people that don't understand that are just seeing a guy just make something look easy.

00:08:30.000 But people that do understand, it's like, that's like a work of art.

00:08:33.000 Like, look what he's doing.

00:08:34.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:08:35.000 It's like artwork.

00:08:35.000 Yeah.

00:08:36.000 He's kind of like, you know, back in the day, you'd kind of...

00:08:38.000 You know, I used to say to a lot of guys that go on the road, hey, if they don't beat me in the first couple hours, we're all right.

00:08:44.000 You know what I mean?

00:08:45.000 Because I'd get better and better and better.

00:08:47.000 Yeah.

00:08:47.000 He kind of doesn't even look for that.

00:08:49.000 You know, he doesn't even want a gear.

00:08:52.000 It's just steady gear.

00:08:54.000 You know what I mean?

00:08:55.000 He's not looking for that rhythm, even though it's there, I guess, a little bit.

00:08:58.000 But he's just a different machine, you know?

00:09:00.000 Well, he's so well trained in terms of his fundamentals, and it's all so repeatable.

00:09:04.000 And I think that exists in martial arts, it exists in archery, and it really exists in pool.

00:09:10.000 If you have really good fundamentals, like that's why a lot of those snooker guys really excel when they try to learn pool.

00:09:17.000 Their fundamentals, like their stroke fundamentals are so perfect.

00:09:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:09:22.000 I mean, they learn some things as they come over.

00:09:25.000 They hate when you say snooker, though, right?

00:09:26.000 Don't they give you a hard time?

00:09:28.000 Snooker.

00:09:28.000 Snooker, yeah.

00:09:30.000 Or the, you know, I still don't know why a bank is called a double in snooker.

00:09:34.000 Just a one-rail bank is called a double, so there's a few of them that I'm not really sure about, but, you know.

00:09:41.000 That's an interesting game, too.

00:09:43.000 Oh, it's a great game, yeah.

00:09:44.000 I mean, I think, you know, I think nine ball's a little better looking for today's people.

00:09:51.000 You know what I mean?

00:09:52.000 Like, Snooker has done really well, and it's got a great following, and it should, but I don't know.

00:09:57.000 There's nothing like breaking and running down.

00:09:59.000 Yeah, the different balls, you know, you feel a little more aggression, I think.

00:10:03.000 Yeah.

00:10:03.000 You know, which in sports, you usually want to feel that aggression, right?

00:10:06.000 Yeah.

00:10:06.000 And if you fuck up and leave the nine in front of the hole, it's an easy victory for your opponent.

00:10:11.000 There's something beautiful about luck, the luck aspect in nine ball.

00:10:14.000 Balls bounce all over the place, and when you're down, and then all of a sudden, boom, the guy shits a nine ball in.

00:10:21.000 You're like, God damn it.

00:10:22.000 And you can change it around, you know what I mean?

00:10:24.000 You can turn things around.

00:10:25.000 It's such an exciting game, and it never stops being exciting.

00:10:27.000 When it's played at a good level, it just never stops being exciting.

00:10:31.000 It's one of the most engaging physical games that I've ever participated in.

00:10:36.000 Yeah, and you would think for a non-contact sport, the adrenaline gets way up there.

00:10:40.000 I know.

00:10:40.000 I mean, it's pretty intense.

00:10:42.000 They've done heart rate monitors on guys, right?

00:10:44.000 Oh, yeah.

00:10:45.000 What's like the highest anybody got jacked?

00:10:46.000 Oh, my God.

00:10:47.000 You know, a guy you know, a couple years ago, Max Eberle, was trying to make the team.

00:10:52.000 So we traveled to Moscow, actually, to play the Russian team.

00:10:58.000 And we put him on there.

00:11:00.000 I think it was Garmin that was the sponsor or whatever.

00:11:03.000 Max, I mean some guys were 130, 125. Max was like 180. I mean it was unreal.

00:11:10.000 Oh my god!

00:11:11.000 Yeah, and he couldn't play position at all.

00:11:13.000 It was just one of those things.

00:11:14.000 But he knocked in every shot.

00:11:16.000 Wow.

00:11:16.000 I mean I was super proud of him, yeah.

00:11:19.000 Fundamentals.

00:11:19.000 Yeah, fundamentals.

00:11:20.000 Max has picture perfect fundamentals.

00:11:22.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:11:23.000 Real straight stroke.

00:11:24.000 You know, been around a long time and it was a pretty fun experience for Max.

00:11:28.000 I was happy to see it.

00:11:29.000 So when you were a kid and so you start off working in this game room and you learn how to play pool then, like how long before you're just all in with pool like all day long?

00:11:42.000 Oh, it didn't take long at all, and I was kind of lucky.

00:11:45.000 A little unlucky, but lucky at the same time where my parents actually split up for like 12, 13 months, right?

00:11:51.000 So during this time, I live with my mom, and there's no chance I would have ever been a pool player if they didn't split up for that little period of time, right?

00:11:59.000 So my dad just wouldn't have allowed it.

00:12:02.000 And so they got back together, and then I'm graduating high school, getting out of school, so it wasn't really up to him, but I was pretty much first road trip right out of high school.

00:12:13.000 Wow!

00:12:13.000 So what did you do and how did you do it?

00:12:16.000 Okay, the road trip?

00:12:17.000 Yes.

00:12:17.000 Okay, so me and my high school buddy Doug Donovan, we went and played a lot of pool together.

00:12:22.000 We decided we're going to do this.

00:12:23.000 His was more of an experiment kind of thing.

00:12:27.000 He was going on to UT and doing his thing.

00:12:32.000 So we went to New Orleans first.

00:12:34.000 We were going to go visit my grandparents in Florida.

00:12:37.000 I knew Florida was a good spot.

00:12:39.000 So we went to Florida, we went to New Orleans first, Mississippi second, Alabama third.

00:12:44.000 You know, we hit all these spots.

00:12:46.000 You know, and back in the day, now I didn't know this as of yet because it was my first road trip, but on a normal road trip, because no cell phones, right, you go to like Waffle House when you drive in, you get you some food, and you go get the Yellow Pages.

00:13:00.000 And you literally go to where it says billiards in the yellow pages, you know, and you just start going to the payphone and calling.

00:13:06.000 And normally, the bartender or whoever answers will divulge a little more information than they probably should.

00:13:13.000 You know, like if the players knew, oh yeah, she's telling them, yeah, Joe's a good player, and he likes to game with nine ball, this guy likes to play one pocket, you know.

00:13:20.000 So you get a lot of information over the phone.

00:13:23.000 And then you just go to those pool rooms and, you know, start trying to get down.

00:13:27.000 Wow.

00:13:27.000 And how good of a player were you fresh out of high school?

00:13:30.000 Well, you know, a year, and I was real lucky.

00:13:33.000 I had some really good players just kind of like come to the pool room and play me pool and do things with me and show me things.

00:13:39.000 And I was a pretty good athlete anyway, so I kind of picked up things quick.

00:13:45.000 But I played good enough to beat them on the way to Florida, Joe.

00:13:50.000 But they were way too smart, and we were way too dumb to stop at the same pool rooms on the way back.

00:13:54.000 Because they got us on the way back.

00:13:56.000 They kind of knew how we played, you know what I mean?

00:13:58.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:59.000 Got us on a few gaff games, you know.

00:14:02.000 So we kind of went empty on the way home pretty much.

00:14:05.000 Explain a gaffe game to the uninitiated.

00:14:07.000 So a gaffe game is kind of like, you know, three card, right?

00:14:11.000 The shell game, any of those games, you know, you're going to lose.

00:14:15.000 And even if you're going to pick the right one, they start the, you know, the song and dance again.

00:14:19.000 That's how the shell game goes, right?

00:14:21.000 So it's basically a game that you're just not going to win at.

00:14:25.000 Like, give me an example.

00:14:25.000 It sounds good, kind of like...

00:14:28.000 Oh, like this might sound good to you, but you know better now.

00:14:32.000 Eight ball, taking balls off.

00:14:34.000 That kind of thing, or say we're playing nine ball, right?

00:14:36.000 And I might say to you, Joe, all you gotta do is drive a ball to the rail, but I get break ball in hand.

00:14:43.000 Playing nine ball.

00:14:45.000 You understand?

00:14:46.000 So, I mean, I'm basically playing the ghost, meaning I'm gonna try and run out every time, but until you start to see it happening, you're not gonna believe it.

00:14:53.000 You might go for that.

00:14:54.000 You ain't even gotta pocket a ball, you just gotta drive one to a rail.

00:14:57.000 You know, there's tons of them, so...

00:15:00.000 That's an interesting game to play with someone who can't play.

00:15:02.000 Because that would get them thinking, I can do that.

00:15:05.000 Or naive pool rooms.

00:15:06.000 Like, if there's not any pool rooms with a good player that just really ain't running out, I mean, that just sounds like the world.

00:15:11.000 Right.

00:15:12.000 You know what I mean?

00:15:13.000 That just sounds, all right, yeah, go ahead.

00:15:15.000 Exactly.

00:15:16.000 I can drive one to a rail, that's for sure.

00:15:18.000 But, you know.

00:15:18.000 But the thing is, like practicing with you today, Probably not.

00:15:24.000 Especially if it's a bucket.

00:15:25.000 It's a large pocketed table.

00:15:28.000 You run out like a champion, man.

00:15:30.000 It's amazing.

00:15:31.000 I know you're not playing professionally as much anymore, but damn, that was really impressive.

00:15:37.000 Yeah, I've been here a few days.

00:15:38.000 Got to play a little pool here in Austin already, so that's good.

00:15:40.000 Shout out to Skinny Bobs.

00:15:42.000 Yeah, Skinny Bobs.

00:15:43.000 That's a great spot.

00:15:43.000 Yeah, the 50th going on, the longest-running tournament in the country.

00:15:47.000 I went there last year to sweat it.

00:15:49.000 I might try to make it there this year, too.

00:15:51.000 It's fun, man.

00:15:52.000 I love watching high-level pool.

00:15:55.000 It's one of those things that I've always said, it's like an art form that only the people that do it appreciate.

00:16:03.000 Yeah, and when you really get into it, you see different strikers, you know what I mean?

00:16:06.000 The strokes are different, you know what I mean?

00:16:08.000 A little bit, you know, the position's a little different at times, different things, different breakers, different ways to win, you know what I mean?

00:16:14.000 So it's attractive in that manner, I think.

00:16:17.000 Yeah.

00:16:18.000 No, it's just an interesting thing that there's different approaches.

00:16:21.000 You know, some guys have, like, thick shafts.

00:16:23.000 Some guys have little tiny shafts.

00:16:25.000 And body types.

00:16:26.000 Yeah.

00:16:27.000 Right?

00:16:27.000 We're talking about Kachi.

00:16:28.000 You know, unfortunately, what happened to him recently, but this guy looks like, you know, like, built like Gronk almost.

00:16:35.000 He's a big dude.

00:16:36.000 Yeah, huge.

00:16:37.000 And then you got, what, Little Ko, who's one of your favorites that you said?

00:16:40.000 Yeah, I love the Ko brothers.

00:16:41.000 90 pounds soaking wet, maybe?

00:16:43.000 Yeah, Ko Ping Chung and Ko Ping Yee are two of my favorite guys to watch because the way they play is so smooth.

00:16:49.000 It's so controlled.

00:16:52.000 It seems like he's never hitting the ball at different speeds.

00:16:57.000 He's just hitting it at different places on the ball unless it's a very soft shot.

00:17:02.000 Everything is just like this beautiful controlled stroke.

00:17:05.000 Yeah, everything looks medium, right?

00:17:07.000 Everything looks like right in the middle.

00:17:09.000 I forget what match I was watching recently, but he broke around the first five racks and it was just like exquisite.

00:17:14.000 Oh yeah.

00:17:15.000 Little one?

00:17:15.000 The little one?

00:17:16.000 No, that was the big one.

00:17:17.000 Oh, Copini.

00:17:18.000 Yeah.

00:17:19.000 Yeah, there's a third, you know.

00:17:20.000 But they're both assassins, right?

00:17:21.000 There's a third one, you know.

00:17:22.000 I heard.

00:17:22.000 Yeah.

00:17:22.000 I haven't seen that guy play.

00:17:24.000 Yeah, he's got a lot of talent.

00:17:25.000 He's way tall compared to the other two.

00:17:28.000 Oh, really?

00:17:28.000 So it's almost like when I watch him, he's still kind of getting his coordination as a tall man because he's pretty young, you know?

00:17:35.000 So, yeah, but he's got a lot of game as well.

00:17:37.000 There's something about, you know, watching these guys from the time that they're really young.

00:17:42.000 Like, some guys get so good so quick.

00:17:45.000 Like, Wu Cha Ching.

00:17:46.000 You know, that dude who won the World Championships at, what, 16 years old?

00:17:50.000 Yeah, the 9-ball, and then later in the year, the 8-ball as well.

00:17:53.000 Insane.

00:17:53.000 Oh, yeah.

00:17:54.000 At 16. Oh, yeah.

00:17:55.000 I was there when he won the 9-ball.

00:17:56.000 He was, like, fearless.

00:17:58.000 Well, he manhandled the whole tournament at 16. It was like, you could see after, like, the third or fourth round, a little different complexion on his opponents compared to everyone else's opponents.

00:18:08.000 Yeah, he was an interesting guy, too, because he played with a heavy Southwest, right?

00:18:12.000 Yeah.

00:18:12.000 Yeah, well, the Chinese Taipei, former Taiwanese, right?

00:18:16.000 That's a big common cue for them is the Southwest.

00:18:19.000 Maybe more on Southwest and Chinese Taipei than anywhere in the world.

00:18:23.000 Well, that's what's interesting, too, is that everybody has, like, a different philosophy on whether a cue should be heavy or a cue should be light.

00:18:29.000 But what's...

00:18:31.000 You know, to people that don't know what the fuck we're talking about, what's so fascinating about it is you're trying to apply a certain amount of pressure to this thing that you're holding in your hand that you drive into a cue ball to get the proper amount of revolutions,

00:18:46.000 and you're doing it across a whole table.

00:18:49.000 So it's like a nine-foot canvas.

00:18:51.000 And when the ball goes three rails and comes all the way back, it's perfect for position on the next ball.

00:18:58.000 It's one of the most beautiful things in life.

00:19:00.000 Oh, yeah.

00:19:00.000 People don't realize the cue ball curves all over the place.

00:19:04.000 You know what a masse is, right?

00:19:05.000 But like every shot it curves.

00:19:07.000 So how much knowledge did you have when you were out there hustling when you were 17?

00:19:11.000 Did you know?

00:19:14.000 No, I mean, you know, Baytown, where I'm from, east side of Houston, so, you know, I stayed in Baytown, that area, for the first six, eight months I played, and then I, because everyone said, don't go to Houston, you know, too many great players, and So I started going there, but I started learning real quick.

00:19:31.000 Like, you know, you're trying to hang on to your bankroll, you learn a little quicker.

00:19:36.000 So I was a little savvy for a year player, probably, a little more than most, but yeah, I was pretty naive.

00:19:43.000 So you were telling me, we were talking about earlier, that there's parts of the country that are not good to go to for gambling.

00:19:49.000 Back in the day, at least.

00:19:50.000 Back in the day.

00:19:51.000 But the South is overwhelmingly good to go to for gambling.

00:19:54.000 Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:19:55.000 It's just like tournaments with Calcutta's or auctions.

00:19:59.000 You know, a good auction in New York, if they even have one, might be like 5,000 in there, you know, where Buffalo's, I think they had...

00:20:06.000 I don't know, 320,000 or something like that in May.

00:20:11.000 Are we going to get in trouble with the IRS because of this conversation?

00:20:15.000 Well, no, it's legal in Louisiana, so they don't take anything out of the purse or anything, so there's no money.

00:20:21.000 You know what I mean.

00:20:21.000 So for people that don't know what a Calcutta is, so if Jeremy was in a tournament, you could actually buy him in the tournament, and you're gambling against all the other people that are picking different players.

00:20:32.000 Yeah, they auction everyone off on a side pod.

00:20:34.000 Yeah, so everybody gets auctioned.

00:20:35.000 Exactly, yeah.

00:20:35.000 And if there's a lot of gamblers, it can get pretty high, and it gets fun.

00:20:39.000 Yeah, like at your country club tournament, like your club tournament or whatever, they usually do a Calcutta for each team.

00:20:46.000 Oh, do they do that too?

00:20:46.000 Yeah, yeah, they do that in golf a lot.

00:20:48.000 Yeah, so when you were first, like, just trying to go out and get games, you're just calling people in the Yellow Pages, showing up at places, and how do you know your speed in comparison to, like, are you just guessing?

00:21:03.000 Uh, a little.

00:21:04.000 Because these, like, your first experience is, like, traveling, right?

00:21:07.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:08.000 Yeah, I mean, you know, you hear about things, right?

00:21:10.000 You get information from people.

00:21:11.000 As you go on, you start to know people.

00:21:15.000 Oh, you meet this guy in this area, that guy in that area.

00:21:18.000 So you keep in touch, and if something's serious going on, they send you a page on the old pager.

00:21:23.000 You make a call, and you make a decision if you're going to drive across.

00:21:26.000 Now, that was a few years into it.

00:21:28.000 But at first, it was kind of like, I did some dumb shit.

00:21:33.000 Went in with a mechanic shirt on, like all green stuff.

00:21:37.000 Well, you know, Color of Money didn't get me going for a pool.

00:21:42.000 That was a little bit before.

00:21:43.000 But I did watch it.

00:21:44.000 Right.

00:21:45.000 You know, so I kind of felt like...

00:21:46.000 You could be a hustler.

00:21:47.000 Yeah, yeah, but immediately went away from that.

00:21:50.000 A lot better just to go in and say, hey, we like to play.

00:21:53.000 You know, and they usually get one of their better players.

00:21:55.000 And you're hitting every little town.

00:21:57.000 You know what I mean?

00:21:58.000 So you're betting on yourself a little more often, and it's easy to tell pretty quickly, unless you catch one of them smart guys that know how to stall, you know, that are hustling you, you know what I mean?

00:22:08.000 Right.

00:22:09.000 So that's happened.

00:22:10.000 Did you encounter a lot of those?

00:22:12.000 A lot of attempts, you know, but normally the hustler would come up asking for a big spot.

00:22:17.000 You know, the smart hustler was the one that could come in and start playing even and then figure it out from there.

00:22:23.000 You know, it's just a little easier to get down, you know, and I knew a lot of those guys that, you know, were there to win, you know.

00:22:30.000 Now, when you would go to a new pool room, would you try to make a friend and maybe give them a gapper if you steered you in the right direction?

00:22:38.000 Yeah, that was kind of touchy.

00:22:40.000 I mean, you might learn quickly.

00:22:44.000 Double steer.

00:22:45.000 The same guy that's going to give you information is probably talking to someone else too, you know, kind of thing.

00:22:51.000 So, you know, best off to be able to evaluate a room pretty quickly.

00:22:56.000 And it's amazing from coast to coast how common people are in the pool room.

00:23:02.000 And when you were doing this did you realize like how wild it is to be a young free man just traveling the country gambling on pool?

00:23:11.000 Did you realize like how wild that is?

00:23:13.000 Absolutely I got reminded of it a lot of times just because you get stuck in situations and you so you get to know people and they kind of remind you of it you know we're in Chattanooga one time we were stuck for like two weeks because it was the blizzard of 91 I don't know if you remember it was Freaking crazy.

00:23:28.000 People died in the mountains because of it and all that.

00:23:31.000 So we're stuck and we're basically walking to the pool room, sliding to the pool room, whatever, every day.

00:23:36.000 So you kind of think about it.

00:23:38.000 And then my friend that was with me, he finally had to end his road trip to go back and go to school.

00:23:43.000 So that reminds me of what I'm doing a little bit.

00:23:46.000 You know, that I'm out there just kind of going from place to place, single, just playing all the pool I can.

00:23:51.000 And, you know, it was great.

00:23:54.000 Yeah, pretty special.

00:23:56.000 It's romantic.

00:23:57.000 It really is.

00:23:59.000 I mean, how many movies are there about pool hustlers or that type of person who's just living this...

00:24:06.000 I mean, that's what was so attractive to me.

00:24:09.000 It was not just watching people that played really well.

00:24:11.000 It was the culture.

00:24:13.000 It was a culture of people that just weren't going to fit in with 9 to 5. It was not...

00:24:22.000 An option.

00:24:23.000 These guys were wild people.

00:24:25.000 And a lot of them were gambling addicts.

00:24:28.000 And a lot of them were really fucking smart guys.

00:24:30.000 And they were really good pool players.

00:24:32.000 And they just couldn't deal with the regular world.

00:24:34.000 They had to get to a pool hall.

00:24:36.000 Let's get to a fucking pool hall.

00:24:37.000 Were any pool players around here?

00:24:38.000 And they didn't give a fuck about anybody who wasn't a pool player.

00:24:41.000 Yeah, they're comfortable, you know what I mean?

00:24:42.000 Yes.

00:24:43.000 And they were just around these people.

00:24:45.000 And every day would be the same kind of conversations.

00:24:49.000 Like, this guy could get the eight.

00:24:51.000 And it was always like, you don't have heart.

00:24:54.000 You ain't gambling.

00:24:56.000 Oh, my God.

00:24:56.000 New York was so much talk with so little, like, real high gambling that I saw.

00:25:01.000 But I saw a few.

00:25:02.000 I told you about Water Dog when he played this guy, George the Greek.

00:25:06.000 That was one of the craziest things I've ever seen.

00:25:07.000 I've talked about it before.

00:25:08.000 So in brevity, he would do heroin in the bathroom, come out.

00:25:12.000 Sit on a chair for 20 minutes, just like gone, and then couldn't miss.

00:25:16.000 It was wild.

00:25:18.000 On what you would call a gaff table.

00:25:20.000 It was a very tight table, and the shims were all fucked up.

00:25:24.000 It wasn't perfect.

00:25:25.000 If you hit the point on the way in, weird shit could happen.

00:25:29.000 You could hit the ball well and not go.

00:25:31.000 But he was firing them in like it was a swimming pool.

00:25:34.000 Oh, yeah.

00:25:35.000 He was firing him in.

00:25:36.000 Sound like Earl right there.

00:25:38.000 His stroke was so pure.

00:25:39.000 It was so pure.

00:25:41.000 It was so wild to watch.

00:25:42.000 He was just running out.

00:25:43.000 I think he might have run like 75 and out or something like that.

00:25:47.000 Like something crazy.

00:25:48.000 Yeah, which is like 300 on a regular table.

00:25:49.000 We just watched him do it.

00:25:50.000 It was like watching him just run ball after ball while George couldn't do shit.

00:25:55.000 He beat him a couple times like that with different games, too.

00:25:59.000 I think they played some One Pocket too.

00:26:01.000 George loves One Pocket.

00:26:02.000 But he would gamble high.

00:26:03.000 He would be the one guy that would gamble thousands of dollars.

00:26:07.000 And then there was this one dude named International Sal.

00:26:09.000 And International Sal made his money from American Express card scam way back in the day.

00:26:17.000 They would get the carbons and then they would make duplicate cards and buy a bunch of shit and then sell it.

00:26:23.000 And he would go to the pool hall and they would bring him bags of cash.

00:26:28.000 Just bags of cash.

00:26:30.000 And he was just there all day gambling, losing.

00:26:35.000 Yeah, well, he was probably one of the few gamblers there.

00:26:37.000 I mean, I love New York, I love the guys around New York, but it is more of like a lot of shit-talking, really, and not as much action, maybe.

00:26:45.000 It's interesting that that's the case, because you would think of New York, you would think of like wild people, crazy, they're out there on the streets, they're gambling, you know, like...

00:26:54.000 Yeah, it's almost like they've been doing it longer, though.

00:26:57.000 Like, they're smart, you know what I'm saying?

00:26:59.000 Like, I mean, they want to win.

00:27:00.000 I mean, they want the edge, and...

00:27:01.000 You know, that's another part of it that's always awesome, you know?

00:27:04.000 When you're in there trying to match up, everyone's trying to get a little edge.

00:27:07.000 Yeah.

00:27:07.000 It's just almost like human instinct to try and get a little edge, you know?

00:27:11.000 Did you read Running the Table, the Kid Delicious book?

00:27:14.000 No, I haven't read it completely.

00:27:15.000 It's a really good book.

00:27:16.000 It's a really good book.

00:27:17.000 He was a great guy.

00:27:18.000 The guy who wrote it, what is his name, John Wertheim, I believe?

00:27:23.000 Fucking just did a beautiful job painting that romantic story of them doing the same thing, like traveling the road and playing pool.

00:27:33.000 And I know there was all this talk about turning that into a movie.

00:27:36.000 I think it would have been a great movie.

00:27:38.000 I think if the right person got a hold of it and really understood what you were talking about.

00:27:42.000 Yeah, Danny used to talk about it possibly becoming a movie.

00:27:46.000 I know they were trying to do something with it, but then they died.

00:27:50.000 I don't know.

00:27:52.000 You would have to get someone to play him that looked like him.

00:27:55.000 I don't know if anyone could ever act like him.

00:27:57.000 He was awesome.

00:27:59.000 Incredible.

00:28:00.000 One time we were in Toledo at the Glass City Open and Sports Illustrated was following him.

00:28:06.000 And me and him were playing like the third round, the winners.

00:28:11.000 And I got him like 10 to 6 racing at 11. And he comes back and beats me.

00:28:15.000 But the shot he made to win at Hill Hill out of the pocket, right?

00:28:19.000 Like, you know how you set the ball up in the middle of the table?

00:28:22.000 And, you know, you put the cue ball in the corner and you try to follow it in sometimes.

00:28:26.000 I mean, and he stabbed his ball in.

00:28:29.000 But he gave the Sports Illustrated photographers the Hulk.

00:28:33.000 Yeah.

00:28:34.000 I mean, it was great.

00:28:37.000 Right in Sports Illustrated, too.

00:28:39.000 Yeah, I love that guy.

00:28:41.000 He was incredible.

00:28:42.000 Yeah, there's a few really good books on pool.

00:28:46.000 Playing Off the Rails, another one.

00:28:47.000 Really good book on pool.

00:28:49.000 And Tony Anagoni.

00:28:51.000 Yeah, Tony.

00:28:53.000 But that just romantic vision of this person doing like the craziest kind of way to make a living.

00:29:03.000 You're making a living off of your skills and you're just gambling random people in pool halls and the people there are looking out for people like you because they know people like you coming to town.

00:29:15.000 Yeah, but they kind of like it, too.

00:29:16.000 You know what I mean?

00:29:18.000 Oh, of course!

00:29:19.000 You know, more like, you know, we call it complimentary action.

00:29:22.000 These days, you know, when you become kind of a name, people want to play you, and, you know, they play you, you know, like Shane, he goes to these places, he'll play 50 a set.

00:29:30.000 He'll make like $10,000 playing 50 a set.

00:29:32.000 There was a guy who was really good who was from...

00:29:35.000 I believe he was from Montreal.

00:29:38.000 Paul...

00:29:38.000 Portier.

00:29:39.000 Yes, Paul Portier.

00:29:40.000 Paul Portier came through Executive Billions and robbed a bunch of people.

00:29:44.000 Really?

00:29:45.000 Yeah, that was fun to watch.

00:29:46.000 Wow.

00:29:46.000 That was fun to watch.

00:29:47.000 Because he wasn't a big gambler, per se.

00:29:49.000 You know what I mean?

00:29:50.000 He was so good.

00:29:51.000 Oh, yeah.

00:29:51.000 He was so good, though.

00:29:52.000 He was stealing with some of these guys.

00:29:54.000 He's a really good teacher up there now.

00:29:56.000 I think that's what he mainly does.

00:29:58.000 Teaches pool.

00:29:59.000 Yeah, he shot my friend Johnny's nuts in.

00:30:01.000 It was beautiful to watch, though.

00:30:04.000 Watching someone who's just elegantly moving that ball around the table for perfect position.

00:30:12.000 He was kind of an elegant kind of guy anyways.

00:30:14.000 He was always cleaned up.

00:30:15.000 Yeah, real nice, real clean.

00:30:16.000 Yeah, it seemed like, you know, Jackie Gleason.

00:30:19.000 There he is.

00:30:20.000 There he is, his beautiful mustache.

00:30:22.000 Hell of a player.

00:30:24.000 Yeah, he actually lived in Texas for quite some time.

00:30:26.000 Oh, did he really?

00:30:27.000 Yeah, he lived in the Dallas area.

00:30:28.000 So he was the first pro that I ever saw that came through executive.

00:30:32.000 Oh, wow.

00:30:32.000 The first, like, real legitimate pro.

00:30:35.000 And that was, you know, early on, I was just learning pool.

00:30:38.000 Just learning pool.

00:30:40.000 Yeah, well, he was pretty solid fundamentally and stuff, you know, like, kind of critiqued that, so it'd be a good one to watch.

00:30:47.000 But he was kind of like just a nine-ball player, so not to pick on Paul, of course, but when you're on the road...

00:30:53.000 You gotta play everything, huh?

00:30:54.000 You learn you gotta play, yeah.

00:30:56.000 I mean, you know, you're gonna come into some areas where they just don't play nine-ball.

00:31:00.000 How many times have you gone to a place that they only play bank pool?

00:31:04.000 Well, I'll tell you one place.

00:31:07.000 I was in Cleveland.

00:31:09.000 So I was on the road with a...

00:31:10.000 Which is right next to Kentucky.

00:31:12.000 Well, this is north.

00:31:14.000 Ohio's north.

00:31:15.000 Yeah, Cincinnati.

00:31:16.000 Cincinnati's north, by the way.

00:31:17.000 Okay.

00:31:18.000 I'm trying to figure it out because Kentucky's supposed to be the bank place.

00:31:21.000 Well, I'll get back to that one I was going to talk about.

00:31:23.000 But yeah, I went through like all over Kentucky, a lot of small towns.

00:31:28.000 Now, I wouldn't say that's the only thing they would play, but that's the only thing they'd play me without knowing me.

00:31:34.000 Oh, okay.

00:31:34.000 So like Mount Sterling, I don't know how old this pool table was, right?

00:31:38.000 These pool balls were...

00:31:41.000 So old.

00:31:42.000 They were like snooker ball size.

00:31:44.000 They were worn out?

00:31:45.000 Oh my god.

00:31:46.000 It was unbelievable how...

00:31:47.000 They're like BBs.

00:31:48.000 I mean these balls, right?

00:31:49.000 No, this guy had been racking the balls for 60 years getting a quarter in this boot room.

00:31:54.000 What?

00:31:55.000 60 years for the gamblers.

00:31:57.000 They're playing like...

00:31:57.000 I'm playing like 300 a game.

00:31:59.000 These guys play 2, 3, 400 a game.

00:32:00.000 He gets a quarter of a rack.

00:32:02.000 For 60 years.

00:32:02.000 Did he ever get a raise?

00:32:03.000 Did he ask for a raise?

00:32:05.000 I don't know.

00:32:05.000 I was only there like two days, so I don't know.

00:32:08.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:32:08.000 Can I get a dollar?

00:32:10.000 No, he was happy as hell.

00:32:12.000 Wow.

00:32:13.000 I mean, he looked, you know, just one of the nicest guys in there.

00:32:15.000 Just like being there.

00:32:16.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:32:17.000 But one time I was in Cleveland and I was on the road with a friend of mine who's a black guy, right?

00:32:23.000 So he's going to take me to these spots where black guys play mainly, you know, like in that area.

00:32:28.000 So I walk in this pool room in Cleveland called Carnegie Billiards, and the whole area is more black area, right?

00:32:36.000 So we walk in the pool room, and there's a sign that says, no nine ball allowed, no recreational pool allowed.

00:32:44.000 So they had eight nine-foots and a Bayer table, and you couldn't take your date in there.

00:32:50.000 It was all action.

00:32:52.000 Wow.

00:32:52.000 Yeah, so the guy, he's like, you're young.

00:32:55.000 No recreational play.

00:32:56.000 Yeah, no recreational play.

00:32:58.000 Holy shit.

00:32:59.000 Yeah.

00:33:00.000 You know, you'll see those no gambling signs?

00:33:02.000 That's a no, no gambling sign.

00:33:04.000 Yeah, exactly right.

00:33:05.000 Exactly right.

00:33:06.000 I love that no recreational play.

00:33:08.000 So the guy that ran the joint was called Shorty, and he was one of the younger guys in the place.

00:33:13.000 He's probably 35, you know, and I'm, this is 1994, so I'm 23. So he says, you're kind of young.

00:33:20.000 He says, I know you want to play nine ball.

00:33:21.000 He says, I'm going to let one set for 500. Almost the first thing he says to me.

00:33:27.000 Because he knows the guy I'm with, so we're there for action.

00:33:31.000 And so I beat him a set of nine balls.

00:33:33.000 It's the only nine ball I played.

00:33:34.000 But I stayed there two weeks playing those guys.

00:33:36.000 And all they play is one pocket banks or billiards.

00:33:39.000 That's it.

00:33:40.000 Wow.

00:33:40.000 Three cushion billiards?

00:33:41.000 Three Cushion Bears, yeah.

00:33:43.000 Yeah, there were a couple really great players in there that, I mean, they kind of played, given some handicaps in the Three Cushion, but it was mainly one pocket and banks.

00:33:52.000 That's a wild game, Three Cushion Billiards.

00:33:54.000 It's one that just, for whatever reason, it's really hard to find.

00:33:58.000 It never took off for some strange reason in America.

00:34:01.000 Or it did at one point in time.

00:34:03.000 It was very popular, right?

00:34:04.000 Yeah, it was popular, but it was more like exhibition and the tournaments just didn't pay that much.

00:34:10.000 It's almost like the old school players back in the day, they didn't make their money off the tournaments.

00:34:15.000 They made their money winning some tournaments and then getting sponsored and traveling the country for Brunswick doing these exhibitions.

00:34:20.000 You know, like Moscone and Karras and all those kind of guys.

00:34:24.000 But now it's starting to take off a little bit because Korea is so huge in Korea again.

00:34:29.000 Really?

00:34:30.000 Yeah.

00:34:30.000 Big money they're playing for.

00:34:31.000 Really?

00:34:32.000 I mean, you know, not like golf money, but I mean $100,000 for first, $150,000 for first.

00:34:36.000 Yeah, big money, yeah.

00:34:37.000 No kidding.

00:34:38.000 And who's putting these events on?

00:34:40.000 A couple Korean companies over there, because it's always been big in Korea, right?

00:34:43.000 It just kind of got rekindled again.

00:34:46.000 So now, all around the world, really, they're having bigger tournaments.

00:34:50.000 That's awesome.

00:34:50.000 They're playing for 30s and 40s.

00:34:52.000 That's good for first, you know?

00:34:53.000 That's great.

00:34:53.000 16 players.

00:34:54.000 Yeah, well, I love that there's so many events now, you know, because I watch so many of them on YouTube.

00:35:00.000 Like, if you enjoy watching pool, I used to have a box of Accustats VHS tapes.

00:35:05.000 It was like this, like a washing machine box.

00:35:09.000 Yeah, same here.

00:35:09.000 Filled with Pat Fleming's tapes.

00:35:12.000 And I got rid of all of them now.

00:35:15.000 Because you just fucking get everything on YouTube.

00:35:17.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:35:17.000 Everything's on YouTube.

00:35:18.000 Well, I ask this question.

00:35:19.000 You might know.

00:35:20.000 Is there any more stream sport in the world than pool?

00:35:24.000 It's streamed constantly.

00:35:26.000 I mean, but so many different ones as well.

00:35:28.000 So many different ones, right.

00:35:29.000 All these different pool rooms like Oscar's Pool Room, Hard Times in Sacramento just streamed that tournament.

00:35:34.000 I was saying I was watching Tyler Styler and Shane play.

00:35:38.000 Yeah, let alone great players.

00:35:39.000 I mean, the next level down, other tournaments.

00:35:41.000 I mean, it's amazing to me.

00:35:43.000 I don't know of other sports.

00:35:44.000 I don't watch them like that.

00:35:46.000 I mean, I'm a sports guy, but maybe what you're into, some type of MMA or some type of martial arts or something, maybe that streamed a lot.

00:35:54.000 They don't really stream that that often.

00:35:57.000 I mean, there's only like big events that stream.

00:36:00.000 There's UFC, there's Bellator, there's...

00:36:03.000 I guess you could probably get PFL on some sort of streaming device too, right?

00:36:09.000 It has to, right?

00:36:10.000 And then one championship, I think you get that streaming too.

00:36:13.000 But I feel like...

00:36:16.000 There's so many multiple pool events that are happening, like, simultaneously.

00:36:21.000 Oh, platform after platform.

00:36:22.000 Really, I mean, there's a ton.

00:36:23.000 I mean, there's no more I don't think that I've ever heard of or seen.

00:36:27.000 I think it's the internet.

00:36:28.000 I think the internet sort of rekindled it in some people.

00:36:31.000 And I also think it got a boost during the pandemic because people started playing again.

00:36:35.000 Oh, yeah.

00:36:36.000 Yeah.

00:36:36.000 I was talking to you about pool table sales and whatnot during the pandemic.

00:36:40.000 It was through the roof.

00:36:42.000 And along with that, I mean, you're going to just get a percentage that like it, you know?

00:36:46.000 And once they start liking it, they're going to watch it.

00:36:49.000 Start to know people, right?

00:36:50.000 So if a kid gets really good now, it's actually a legitimate career path.

00:36:54.000 But when you were doing it, you were just a wild person.

00:36:56.000 You were just out there doing wild person things.

00:36:59.000 Well, yeah, it kind of made steps for me.

00:37:02.000 I mean, I kind of, like I said, I never knew you could make a living or play good pool.

00:37:06.000 And then it kind of, all right, I can make a pool.

00:37:08.000 I'm actually making...

00:37:19.000 When did that happen?

00:37:23.000 Well, 1995 and 6, Johnny Archer kind of just told me, he said, hey, you need to start playing the next level.

00:37:30.000 You said, you're the good enough player.

00:37:32.000 It's where you should be.

00:37:33.000 It just depends on if that's what you want to do.

00:37:35.000 And so I still gambled afterwards, kind of slowed down a little more of the gambling, started to go to tournaments, traveling all over the world and the country playing tournaments.

00:37:44.000 But I started to realize I really liked the tournaments.

00:37:47.000 That's a different pressure only, knowing you can't just flip the coin again.

00:37:51.000 Yeah.

00:37:52.000 You know?

00:37:52.000 So, especially because the first year, I think I played seven tournaments and I might have won one match.

00:37:59.000 Really?

00:37:59.000 And I could beat most of the guys I was losing to.

00:38:02.000 Now, the first draw was hard because I wasn't a seeded player.

00:38:05.000 So I was that friend, you know, Lewat, you know, Johnny, you know, Kim Davenport, all those guys.

00:38:11.000 Right, right, right.

00:38:12.000 But on the loser's side, I lose matches to guys I'm supposed to beat a lot of times, but I was a different nervous.

00:38:17.000 So I was really intrigued on getting through that.

00:38:20.000 You know, like getting to where that wasn't a problem, whether I won or not.

00:38:23.000 It's a different nervousness than gambling.

00:38:25.000 Oh, 100%.

00:38:26.000 Yeah.

00:38:27.000 Gambling, I don't recall ever starting off nervous.

00:38:31.000 I'll take that back.

00:38:32.000 Now, if I only had a couple barrels and I was on the road, you know what I mean?

00:38:36.000 And that's happened several times where, you know, let's just imagine.

00:38:40.000 Now, this is a true story even smaller probably, but let's just say I had 100 bucks, and that sounds crazy to be 1,000 miles away and he only gets 100 bucks.

00:38:48.000 And a guy's trying to say, come on, I'll play you some Hunter to gain one pocket, right?

00:38:52.000 And I'm trying to get him to play for 50 so I can have two barrels.

00:38:56.000 And he's just insisting we play for 100. So now I start off a little nervous knowing I got one barrel.

00:39:02.000 And if I quit after one game, it looks real bad as far as the action.

00:39:07.000 But I've had to do that a few times because percentages say I'm supposed to beat this guy.

00:39:12.000 You know, and pump up.

00:39:13.000 Oh.

00:39:14.000 Yeah.

00:39:15.000 Percentages say.

00:39:16.000 Yeah.

00:39:16.000 But I mean, you know, that's the difference.

00:39:18.000 But I mean, overall gammon, I played races to five for 5,000.

00:39:22.000 I played, the biggest set I ever played was like 38 Gs.

00:39:26.000 But I wasn't nervous at all.

00:39:28.000 Really?

00:39:29.000 No.

00:39:30.000 I mean, I knew the person I was playing.

00:39:31.000 We probably had history of playing before.

00:39:33.000 You know what I mean?

00:39:34.000 I knew what to expect.

00:39:36.000 Generally, it was one pocket more.

00:39:38.000 Just wasn't as much big nine ball back in the day, unlike today.

00:39:44.000 But yeah, the tournament's totally different.

00:39:46.000 And you go up the scale, like Moscone Cup, it's off the charts.

00:39:50.000 That's why it's so impressive watching someone just break and run five racks in a row in a tournament.

00:39:56.000 It's just perfect precision.

00:39:58.000 It's because you know the control that's involved and all those little fine movements.

00:40:03.000 Oh, yeah.

00:40:04.000 But that's the thing, though.

00:40:05.000 When they heat up a little bit, you know what I'm saying?

00:40:08.000 They start to forget about it a little bit more.

00:40:10.000 They start to play better.

00:40:12.000 But even the fillers and fetters and all them, you know, and they'll tell you, but they're nervous.

00:40:17.000 I mean, you can see it out there, you know, like, you know they're nervous, but they're battling through it.

00:40:21.000 Yeah, I can imagine.

00:40:23.000 Poor Max at 180 beats per second.

00:40:26.000 He was pissed, dude.

00:40:27.000 180 beats per minute is so much.

00:40:29.000 That's like a full-on sprint.

00:40:31.000 No, it was way up there.

00:40:32.000 And there was somebody, I can't remember, maybe it was Shane, that was like 90 or 85, like way, way down there.

00:40:40.000 It shuts that hearing aid off.

00:40:42.000 I know.

00:40:42.000 It's strong, huh?

00:40:43.000 That's such a great thing to be able to do to shut the world out.

00:40:46.000 It's not a great thing to be deaf, obviously, but...

00:40:48.000 To have that with Poole, you know, it's almost like he's like...

00:40:55.000 Do you know what a sensory deprivation tank is?

00:40:58.000 I'll show you one.

00:40:59.000 We have one out here.

00:41:00.000 You lay in salt water and you float and the water is the same temperature as your skin.

00:41:05.000 You close the door.

00:41:06.000 Total silence, total darkness.

00:41:07.000 And in the absence of sensory input, your brain becomes like supercharged.

00:41:12.000 You can think about things better.

00:41:14.000 You see everything more clearly.

00:41:18.000 And you start to almost achieve like a psychedelic state while you're doing this.

00:41:22.000 And the benefit of not having sensory input is the other senses, or your mind rather, is more free.

00:41:30.000 There's less resources that are hogging up its energy.

00:41:36.000 I imagine that's what's going on with him.

00:41:39.000 He shuts that hearing aid off and he can probably just completely concentrate on the game.

00:41:45.000 Well, that and the one I thought about with him, because he's always been talked about with practice so much, right?

00:41:50.000 His regimen was so, you know, long, right?

00:41:53.000 Yeah.

00:41:53.000 But, I mean, to be able to shut him off when you're practicing and be in a pool room.

00:41:56.000 You know what I mean?

00:41:57.000 Like, really get involved in yourself.

00:41:59.000 That's the big deal with most guys that practice.

00:42:00.000 Even the ones that want to get bothered a lot.

00:42:03.000 You know what I mean?

00:42:04.000 Right.

00:42:04.000 Distractions and whatnot.

00:42:06.000 Probably also just his situation when he was there.

00:42:09.000 People just left him alone.

00:42:10.000 They kind of knew it.

00:42:11.000 I was hanging out with Max Eberle, and we were at this pool hall in Las Vegas that this Italian guy owned.

00:42:19.000 This guy had the best food of any pool hall I've ever been to in my life.

00:42:25.000 I mean, legit Italian food.

00:42:28.000 It was sensational.

00:42:29.000 He had lasagna and linguine with clams and garlic bread.

00:42:34.000 This in Vegas?

00:42:34.000 Yeah.

00:42:35.000 This guy was from Italy, and he would bring over food for me.

00:42:38.000 He was like a chef in Italy.

00:42:39.000 He'd bring over his food from Italy, like imported mortadella and all this.

00:42:43.000 It was insane that the food was so good.

00:42:45.000 But anyway, this is while Shane was still on top of the world.

00:42:48.000 This is when he was doing the tar matches and all those things.

00:42:50.000 And we're playing, it's like a Friday night before a UFC... And Shane is practicing by himself for like five hours.

00:43:00.000 Just five hours.

00:43:02.000 Stroking in balls and getting perfect position and setting things up again and setting things up again for five hours by himself.

00:43:09.000 Didn't talk to anybody.

00:43:10.000 Just firing balls in.

00:43:12.000 Well, that's the amazing thing, too.

00:43:14.000 You ever see him just sit on the back rail with the cue ball and set up the long shot, hitting it 100 miles an hour?

00:43:20.000 Well, try doing that for like three or four hours straight.

00:43:23.000 Yeah.

00:43:23.000 Hitting the ball that hard.

00:43:25.000 You know, swinging the—I mean, you'll be wore out.

00:43:27.000 I mean, he'll win the hot seat at the U.S. Open and be the first guy practicing, not even play until the next day, you know, be there eight hours, nine hours, getting ready.

00:43:37.000 Next day, he wakes up, does the same thing eight or nine hours before he's got to play the big final.

00:43:42.000 Wow.

00:43:42.000 Oh no, he's sick.

00:43:44.000 He's a sicko, for sure.

00:43:46.000 But I mean, it shows, though.

00:43:47.000 It shows.

00:43:48.000 Yeah.

00:43:49.000 I mean, you know, I don't know if there's anyone better in the tough shot, ever.

00:43:54.000 I mean, I know Filler's awesome and everything, but the true tough shot, I mean, under the biggest pressure, maybe Shane's the best.

00:44:00.000 Well, he's certainly in the argument as the greatest of all time.

00:44:03.000 I mean, you've got a handful of people, Efren and so many different people.

00:44:07.000 We were talking about Bustamante when he was in his prime.

00:44:11.000 But the thing about all those guys, like when you go back to the early days of tournament play and Efren Reyes and the Filipino invasion, that was all gambling.

00:44:25.000 It was all gambling.

00:44:26.000 Oh, 100%.

00:44:27.000 One of the most exciting parts of the game of pool is this illegal aspect of it.

00:44:34.000 It's not illegal everywhere, but in a lot of places it is.

00:44:38.000 As soon as someone bets on the side, it becomes illegal, I think, is how it works.

00:44:42.000 Oh, well, then it's illegal every single goddamn time.

00:44:45.000 Someone bets on the side in Texas?

00:44:47.000 Yeah, that's a form of racketeering or something.

00:44:50.000 Yeah, something like that.

00:44:51.000 Yeah, but Efren, you know the story.

00:44:53.000 You couldn't even make a bet with your friends?

00:44:55.000 Like, what if you and I were playing?

00:44:57.000 No, me and you are supposed to be able to play, and we could bet a million, and it wouldn't be a problem.

00:45:02.000 But Jamie couldn't bet on us.

00:45:03.000 I think that's something.

00:45:04.000 Or if there's someone taking a percentage of some sort.

00:45:08.000 Kind of like the poker.

00:45:09.000 Y'all got the legal poker around here, right?

00:45:11.000 I do not know.

00:45:12.000 I don't play poker.

00:45:13.000 Yeah, well, they got the legal poker rooms, but they charge like pool time, you know, like by the hour, so they don't take any money out of the pot.

00:45:19.000 Interesting.

00:45:20.000 Yeah, so it's legal now.

00:45:21.000 That makes sense.

00:45:22.000 Yeah.

00:45:23.000 That's not a bad compromise.

00:45:25.000 Yeah, that's okay.

00:45:25.000 But I feel like not being able to bet on your friend is un-American.

00:45:29.000 Yeah.

00:45:29.000 We're definitely not texting, that's for sure.

00:45:31.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:45:32.000 Like, if you're gambling with somebody, and you're playing someone, I'm like, I got money on Jeremy.

00:45:38.000 And if I say that, that's illegal?

00:45:41.000 If, like, you were just making an agreement?

00:45:42.000 I think so, yeah.

00:45:44.000 That sounds so crazy.

00:45:45.000 I'm pretty sure.

00:45:46.000 That sounds so crazy.

00:45:47.000 It happened once in Houston, like right before I started, actually a couple times, but once in Houston at a pool room that I frequented, like a year or two before I really started going there, right when I was young.

00:45:58.000 They didn't take the guys that were playing.

00:46:00.000 They took the guys that We're all betting on the side.

00:46:03.000 Oh my god.

00:46:04.000 Yeah, is that crazy?

00:46:05.000 Yeah.

00:46:06.000 Meanwhile, how many people are out there getting robbed?

00:46:08.000 For real robbed?

00:46:09.000 Yeah, right?

00:46:10.000 How many people could you have been arrested instead of finding people who are gambling the wrong way?

00:46:16.000 Yeah, there's a lot of those, right?

00:46:18.000 Yeah, it's such a...

00:46:20.000 Like I said, those two books are great at depicting the romantic aspect of it, playing off the rail and running the table.

00:46:29.000 But to have actually lived that life, when did you come off that life?

00:46:36.000 When did you stop traveling constantly?

00:46:39.000 Like town to town kind of thing?

00:46:41.000 Yeah, probably around 98, 99 I really jumped up in the rankings.

00:46:46.000 Started being able to get real sponsors, paychecks, stuff like that from sponsors.

00:46:53.000 But I still didn't quit gambling.

00:46:55.000 I still played plenty of people.

00:46:56.000 It was just kind of like, it wasn't spent a lot of time traveling, you know, like waiting around.

00:47:01.000 Like, you might go somewhere, if you know it's a good spot, you know, like somebody sent you there, hey, they're gambling, you know, but it might take a little time to get to know you and whatnot before they're comfortable.

00:47:09.000 You might stay a week, two weeks, three weeks at a place.

00:47:12.000 Was there the fear that you entering into professional tournaments would knock your gambling?

00:47:19.000 Nah, by this time, everyone knew.

00:47:22.000 It didn't take long before a few trips I went by my middle name.

00:47:27.000 Yeah, because there were magazines that you could see what's going on around the country.

00:47:32.000 You just might not get a picture or a video of it or whatever, so you start to hear names.

00:47:37.000 The first time I went to California, I did that, actually.

00:47:42.000 It worked out nice.

00:47:43.000 What did you do?

00:47:44.000 Did you just use a different name?

00:47:45.000 Well, it's a funny story, and I think he can laugh about it now, but you know Marcus Shamat is, right?

00:47:52.000 From Sweden.

00:47:54.000 So there was a guy that was staking him and a lot of other great players, and he was big action, the guy was.

00:48:00.000 And I knew Marcus was out there, and so I'm in hard times.

00:48:05.000 I think I told you about this today with Keith, but the only two people in the hard times that knew me All right.

00:48:10.000 Uh, was Keith and Jose Perica.

00:48:13.000 All right.

00:48:14.000 So everyone else didn't know who I was.

00:48:16.000 So Marcus Shamat is standing next to two other guys that I know play, but won't play kind of thing.

00:48:23.000 So I go up and I asked those two guys, I was like, you know, one of y'all want to play some, you know, 50, a hundred dollar sets of nine ball, you know?

00:48:30.000 Knowing, Marcus is going to just jump right on me.

00:48:33.000 You know what I mean?

00:48:34.000 Like, he's right next to him.

00:48:35.000 So, long story short, that happened.

00:48:39.000 But I introduced myself as Tyler, my middle name, you know.

00:48:43.000 Like, I just did, you know.

00:48:44.000 So, we start playing.

00:48:46.000 He beats me a set for 100 playing even.

00:48:49.000 I quit.

00:48:49.000 He offers me the 8. Beats me a set for 200. I quit.

00:48:54.000 I think?

00:49:13.000 I got like $25,000 or $30,000 on me.

00:49:16.000 You wouldn't know it, but I do.

00:49:17.000 So I can't pull out $25,000 or $30,000.

00:49:20.000 They're going to know something's up.

00:49:22.000 So me and my buddy, we just talked for a second.

00:49:24.000 So we ended up pulling out like $4,500.

00:49:27.000 So we played for a little bit.

00:49:31.000 And now we're playing seven ahead.

00:49:33.000 We were playing a race of seven for the 100 and 200, right?

00:49:37.000 So now he thinks he's stealing.

00:49:39.000 Because, I mean, the way I played in the other two sets, you know what I'm saying?

00:49:42.000 So he just comes out like...

00:49:45.000 Gangbusters.

00:49:45.000 He got me like four games down.

00:49:46.000 I'm talking to my buddy.

00:49:47.000 I'm like, man, this is sick.

00:49:48.000 We're going to get beat in this spot right here.

00:49:50.000 I'm getting a seven, you know?

00:49:51.000 So finally I get a shot, and I start to run out.

00:49:54.000 Now I'm starting to run out.

00:49:55.000 And so his steak horse sits there, and he says, man, ain't this something?

00:49:59.000 You know what I mean?

00:50:00.000 He says, we thought we were stealing.

00:50:02.000 It looks real bad now.

00:50:03.000 So I beat him that set.

00:50:06.000 So now, at hard times, you've been there, right, in L.A.? Yeah, Bellflower?

00:50:10.000 Yeah, so they got the player side, right, with the tight tables, and they got the looser tables.

00:50:14.000 Well, he had me on the looser tables thinking, you know, I'm just a sucker, you know?

00:50:18.000 So he says, the Steak Horse says, double the bet, and we'll give you the eight on the tight tables, right?

00:50:24.000 So this is, like, really good for me.

00:50:26.000 You know, now I'm getting a spot on even a tougher table.

00:50:29.000 So I beat him that set.

00:50:30.000 But during that second set...

00:50:33.000 A friend of mine had built me a cue and sent it out to the guy that ran the tournaments in LA, right?

00:50:39.000 So I'm going by Tyler.

00:50:41.000 And this guy walks up and he says, real loud.

00:50:45.000 He says, are you Jeremy Jones?

00:50:47.000 Oh, no.

00:50:49.000 He says, if you are, I got a cue for you, you know?

00:50:51.000 And I was like, no, I ain't Jeremy.

00:50:53.000 Because I'm in the middle of this $9,000 set playing, you know?

00:50:57.000 So I said, no, I ain't Jeremy Jones.

00:50:59.000 And I just sent him on his way.

00:51:01.000 And then the next day when I came in, Mark knew who I was.

00:51:04.000 And everyone spilled the beans kind of thing.

00:51:06.000 I had to go tell the guy, all right, that's my cue and everything.

00:51:09.000 Was he mad at you?

00:51:11.000 No, no, not at all.

00:51:12.000 He understood.

00:51:13.000 It's kind of like a...

00:51:14.000 Funny story around there now, I think.

00:51:15.000 But Marcus was mad at me for a little while.

00:51:17.000 Yeah, that's what I was asking.

00:51:18.000 Oh, yeah, because he was European, you know?

00:51:21.000 And it was just kind of like, you know, if someone got me like that, you know, it's going to sting, but it's going to be more like, all right, touche kind of thing.

00:51:28.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:51:29.000 Later on, you know, we're going to laugh about it and stuff.

00:51:31.000 But it took...

00:51:32.000 It's almost like if you first beat Efren, he walks by you, but he don't say much to you for about a month or two.

00:51:38.000 Really?

00:51:38.000 Oh, yeah.

00:51:39.000 He's got to let that wear off a little bit.

00:51:41.000 But it took Marcus probably about a decade before...

00:51:44.000 It was bad, yeah.

00:51:45.000 So when he beat you the first two sets even, were you hustling a little?

00:51:52.000 Well, I might not have put forth my best effort, but he played real good, you know what I mean?

00:51:56.000 He was just, alright, let me pick up this four or five hundred and get out of here.

00:51:59.000 But were you purposely trying to set something up?

00:52:00.000 Well, I thought, you know, I'm definitely not trying to win for 200. You know what I mean?

00:52:05.000 Like, his steak horse, who now is actually, after that trip, became a real good friend of mine.

00:52:10.000 You know, at that time, he was known you could beat him out of, you know, 40 and 50, you know, 1,000, right?

00:52:15.000 So you're not going to start off doing anything like that for 200 or so.

00:52:19.000 So when you first start playing, you play good, but you're not really bearing down.

00:52:25.000 Right, right.

00:52:25.000 So you're showing him that you can play a little, but you might miss some shots that...

00:52:30.000 Plus I wanted to see him play.

00:52:32.000 Right.

00:52:32.000 You know, I heard the name.

00:52:34.000 Right.

00:52:34.000 I kind of wanted to really see, because eventually to beat him out of the real money, he's going to be playing even.

00:52:38.000 Right.

00:52:39.000 You know what I mean?

00:52:39.000 Because he's another great player.

00:52:41.000 So that eventually was going to happen, but...

00:52:43.000 Marcus ended up having to leave the country for his visa.

00:52:46.000 He got shortened up or something like that.

00:52:48.000 He actually ended up leaving the next day.

00:52:50.000 But I stuck around for about a month.

00:52:53.000 In these other countries, is there a lot of gambling going on?

00:52:55.000 Obviously in the Philippines there is.

00:52:57.000 But is there a lot of gambling going on in these other countries where all these players are emerging?

00:53:01.000 Some of Asia, for sure.

00:53:04.000 Southeast Asia especially, I think.

00:53:06.000 You know, Thailand, like you said, Philippines, Indonesia.

00:53:11.000 Europe here and there, not a whole lot.

00:53:13.000 Not a whole lot at all.

00:53:14.000 And I think it's more of the steak horse kind of situation.

00:53:17.000 It's just not the mentality.

00:53:19.000 You know, there's not a steak horse.

00:53:21.000 You know, people aren't just thinking, oh, let me go put somebody else in action for thousands of dollars and give them a half.

00:53:25.000 You know, it's just not your everyday thing.

00:53:28.000 That's one of the fun parts of American pool culture, the steak horses.

00:53:32.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:53:33.000 They're some of the biggest characters.

00:53:35.000 Yes, wild, crazy people with tons of money.

00:53:37.000 Yeah, and how they got it.

00:53:38.000 Yeah.

00:53:40.000 Yeah, and they're interested in gambling on pool.

00:53:44.000 Yeah, I've been paid in buried money quite a few times.

00:53:48.000 Really?

00:53:49.000 Oh, yeah.

00:53:50.000 Oh, yeah.

00:53:50.000 It stinks.

00:53:51.000 It stinks, usually.

00:53:52.000 Oh, yeah.

00:53:53.000 Not nice.

00:53:54.000 Wow.

00:53:54.000 The whole car stunk.

00:53:57.000 Really?

00:53:57.000 Oh yeah, real bad.

00:53:59.000 Do you think there's like bodies next to the...

00:54:01.000 I don't think so.

00:54:02.000 Why did it smell?

00:54:03.000 Just mildew and shit?

00:54:05.000 Yeah, I think so.

00:54:05.000 Yeah, I'm talking about...

00:54:06.000 Yeah, I think this has been there a long time.

00:54:08.000 30 years.

00:54:10.000 Yeah.

00:54:11.000 There was a guy one time, we were in South Carolina.

00:54:13.000 It was another place that I frequented in the summers, especially because we gambled to golf.

00:54:18.000 But this guy, Frank...

00:54:20.000 And he was a great, great guy.

00:54:22.000 And he was coming in overalls, didn't know he had a penny, but he staked a lot of players, and he did a lot for the pool community.

00:54:30.000 So he comes in one morning, because we'd all meet at the pool room about 10 a.m., and we'd all make a golf game.

00:54:35.000 Then we'd go out to the golf course, Gamble Golf, come back to the pool room and make pool games, right?

00:54:40.000 It was awesome.

00:54:41.000 I mean, the whole summer was like this.

00:54:43.000 So Frank comes in one morning.

00:54:47.000 And he looked real upset.

00:54:49.000 And he never looked upset.

00:54:50.000 Always happy.

00:54:52.000 Even if he lost, he was happy.

00:54:53.000 And so I said, Frank, what's wrong?

00:54:55.000 You okay?

00:54:56.000 He said, I come out my back door and I saw one of my bushes dug up today.

00:55:01.000 So, one of his sons that is kind of, you know, a little detached at times from the family.

00:55:07.000 For one reason or another, he let it stay there.

00:55:09.000 And he said he knew it right.

00:55:11.000 It was a $30,000 bush.

00:55:13.000 Oh, yeah.

00:55:14.000 Yeah, and so he took it like a grain of salt.

00:55:17.000 It was kind of like a disappointed father kind of thing, more than upset.

00:55:22.000 He had plenty of money, you know.

00:55:23.000 But it's amazing what people do with their money.

00:55:27.000 Yeah, that's a Hunter Biden-type move.

00:55:32.000 Probably got it buried a little better.

00:55:34.000 You'd need something.

00:55:35.000 Yeah, but I mean, digging that money up for a need.

00:55:39.000 Oh, yeah.

00:55:40.000 Yeah, it's just the kind of people that would go to these places and look forward to matching these guys together.

00:55:52.000 It's a famous story that's in the Running the Table book about Chicago Billiards.

00:55:59.000 Did you ever go to that place in Connecticut?

00:56:02.000 I don't think so.

00:56:03.000 Chicago Billiards was owned by this one eccentric millionaire.

00:56:07.000 Who would encourage gambling.

00:56:10.000 And if no gambling was going on, he would put money up for guys to play.

00:56:14.000 He just wanted action constantly.

00:56:16.000 They had dorms there.

00:56:18.000 They had beds in the back.

00:56:19.000 People would sleep there.

00:56:20.000 Guys would come in, stay for days.

00:56:23.000 Oh, yeah.

00:56:23.000 Well, that's, you know, just like poker games, Houston had a big underground poker scene.

00:56:27.000 And the same thing with pool rooms.

00:56:29.000 If you have a guy that owns the poker room that's action, that's the best games.

00:56:33.000 Yeah.

00:56:34.000 I mean, they're putting the money back in play.

00:56:35.000 And the same thing with the pool room.

00:56:37.000 If the pool room owner's involved, I mean, you know, he's going to have players around.

00:56:40.000 He's going to have options usually.

00:56:42.000 And that's some of the best spots for action.

00:56:44.000 I remember I was watching this guy play and he just got off the phone and he said, my wife just told me if I don't come home now I'm getting a divorce.

00:56:54.000 And he goes, rack the balls.

00:56:57.000 I've heard that in so many words before.

00:56:59.000 But he said it out loud.

00:57:01.000 He just racked the balls.

00:57:02.000 He was like, we're going to keep playing.

00:57:04.000 Oh yeah.

00:57:05.000 Looks like I'm getting divorced.

00:57:06.000 Not the first time she's told him that probably.

00:57:09.000 It's just too addictive.

00:57:10.000 Those places are too addictive.

00:57:12.000 I couldn't wait to get back to them.

00:57:14.000 When I'd go on the road and I'd do stand-up, couldn't wait to come back, get to the pool room.

00:57:18.000 What's going on?

00:57:20.000 Who's playing who?

00:57:21.000 What's happening?

00:57:22.000 I knew a lot of truck drivers that played, got to play all over in different places.

00:57:27.000 But the one thing about pool, even if you're not around the game, it's hard to leave totally the game.

00:57:33.000 It's good to hit the ball well.

00:57:35.000 It feels good.

00:57:36.000 It's just like golf, they say, when you hit it well.

00:57:39.000 It feels good, right?

00:57:40.000 Have you ever considered writing down some of your road stories?

00:57:45.000 Oh yeah.

00:57:45.000 Like Danny DiLiberto has a book out.

00:57:47.000 Yeah, there's a good friend of mine, Harley Bryan.

00:57:50.000 I think I was telling you a little bit about him the other day, but he's like a legend guy.

00:57:54.000 And I tell him all the time, I'm like, I mean, this is like the best book ever if you just...

00:58:01.000 Tell your stories.

00:58:02.000 He was raised on a riverboat.

00:58:05.000 Like Porky's.

00:58:06.000 You know what I mean?

00:58:07.000 His dad owned two of them in Jacksonville.

00:58:10.000 The only two.

00:58:11.000 Just the stuff he was raised around.

00:58:13.000 Then he was a great pool player around Jimmy Karras and Moscone and all those guys.

00:58:18.000 He's 84 now, I think.

00:58:21.000 But yeah, it'd be good to put the pool stories down.

00:58:23.000 There's a lot of them.

00:58:24.000 That's one of my favorite expressions is a riverboat gambler.

00:58:27.000 Oh, yeah.

00:58:27.000 Those type of people.

00:58:28.000 Oh, he's one of them riverboat gamblers.

00:58:30.000 Just wild people.

00:58:33.000 People around the water.

00:58:34.000 I mean, I don't know what it is.

00:58:36.000 I mean, I'm from there, too.

00:58:38.000 Baytown, like, right on it.

00:58:39.000 What do you think it is?

00:58:42.000 It's a very carefree kind of, you know, once you don't bathe for a week, you kind of figure out you ain't got to that often again.

00:58:48.000 I mean, I don't know.

00:58:49.000 I don't know what the mentality is.

00:58:50.000 But why is gambling so prevalent in the South?

00:58:55.000 That's what's fascinating to me.

00:58:56.000 Like, why is it so a part of the culture?

00:58:59.000 I mean, and even in things that are illegal, like rooster fighting and shit.

00:59:02.000 Oh, yeah.

00:59:03.000 Gambling is, like, so pervasive.

00:59:05.000 Yeah, I mean.

00:59:06.000 You know, you would know more about the North than I would, but maybe the faster paced?

00:59:12.000 I mean, we always just said it's kind of like California, a little bit the same.

00:59:15.000 They're real smart, and they play well, and they're not just going to take much of a beating.

00:59:20.000 And the thing is, even if you play well, the difference, a lot of people, like I used to get accused for being the best of the game, which who doesn't, right?

00:59:29.000 But people would mistake that also for someone who could play well under pressure.

00:59:34.000 You know, if you play well under pressure, it looks like you got the best of the game.

00:59:38.000 You know, most people can't.

00:59:39.000 So even if you beat them playing really well, so it's hard to make another game off of how you just played because you played really well, like that's hard to do all the time playing pool.

00:59:48.000 You know that, right?

00:59:50.000 I've seen guys try to match up for hours.

00:59:53.000 Give up, come back, give up, come back.

00:59:57.000 And then finally, oh my god, they're racking the balls?

00:59:59.000 They're rocking the balls.

01:00:00.000 It's happening.

01:00:01.000 I go to senior centers, right?

01:00:03.000 Sometimes.

01:00:04.000 Play pool with some of the older guys, or I have a lesson there, or something like that.

01:00:08.000 They talk a little shit without any gambling.

01:00:11.000 You know what I mean?

01:00:13.000 And some of it goes way back.

01:00:15.000 It's pretty nasty stuff.

01:00:16.000 Oh, really?

01:00:17.000 Well, I mean, kinda.

01:00:18.000 They don't know me from Adam talking about something real personal from 25 years ago.

01:00:24.000 That's hilarious.

01:00:25.000 Yeah, that's pretty funny.

01:00:26.000 I think the barking in general, being somewhere you're allowed to bark a little bit.

01:00:30.000 Yeah.

01:00:32.000 Well, it's just a part of the fun of it all.

01:00:36.000 It's like wild things are happening.

01:00:38.000 Oh, yeah.

01:00:39.000 Absolutely.

01:00:40.000 People are accusing people, sharking them.

01:00:43.000 Well, the swings, too.

01:00:44.000 The ups and downs.

01:00:46.000 You know, you just broke so-and-so.

01:00:48.000 He's dead broke.

01:00:49.000 He was borrowing money yesterday.

01:00:50.000 He spent two days out of the pool room, and he's won 10,000 cents.

01:00:54.000 You know what I mean?

01:00:54.000 So you keep track of everyone.

01:00:57.000 Especially if you're in a place locally that you live at that has action.

01:01:00.000 You always want to know what's going on a little bit.

01:01:02.000 And for people that don't understand the allure of this, you're constantly engaged in some kind of competition.

01:01:09.000 It's constant happening.

01:01:11.000 Oh, yeah.

01:01:11.000 And it's endless.

01:01:13.000 Yeah, it's endless.

01:01:14.000 Yeah, it ain't, you know, basketball, what are you going to do?

01:01:16.000 Are you going to go shoot free throws maybe or maybe play one?

01:01:19.000 I mean, this is endless.

01:01:19.000 The pool games and the handicaps, the partners.

01:01:22.000 There's no season.

01:01:23.000 Yeah.

01:01:24.000 Y'all two could play mean.

01:01:25.000 Yeah.

01:01:25.000 You know, we could rotate.

01:01:27.000 Yeah.

01:01:27.000 I mean, there's just all kinds, so.

01:01:29.000 Yeah.

01:01:32.000 Have you ever sat down and tried to write out some of these stories?

01:01:37.000 Not really the stories, no.

01:01:39.000 I've written some stuff for teaching, because I do a lot of that, right?

01:01:43.000 And it helps to write it down, yeah, for sure.

01:01:48.000 But no, not the stories.

01:01:49.000 Probably should.

01:01:50.000 You definitely should.

01:01:51.000 Yeah.

01:01:52.000 I think I'd want to know somebody, though, like really trust putting it in someone else's hands.

01:01:56.000 Right.

01:01:57.000 You know, someone's going to come across with it.

01:01:59.000 Have an author.

01:01:59.000 Yeah, give it the right climate, whatever that is.

01:02:02.000 You know, I'm not sure what that is yet.

01:02:03.000 Maybe we could just record some of your stories.

01:02:06.000 Just record some of your stories and make YouTube videos.

01:02:08.000 That might actually be even better than a book.

01:02:11.000 Well, some of them are pretty crazy.

01:02:14.000 Give me a crazy one.

01:02:15.000 What's the craziest one?

01:02:16.000 Oh, I can't tell you.

01:02:18.000 Probably maybe the craziest.

01:02:20.000 I'll tell you later on the craziest ones on here, but...

01:02:24.000 Let's see.

01:02:25.000 So one time I was in a tournament in Mississippi.

01:02:29.000 To get on with this, I won the tournament.

01:02:32.000 Tough tournament.

01:02:33.000 Johnny Archer, all the great players, and his bar table.

01:02:36.000 So I won like 8,000.

01:02:38.000 So by the time I won the tournament, I think I was about 25,000 losers in the casino.

01:02:43.000 Okay?

01:02:43.000 Like, terrible trip.

01:02:45.000 I mean, I wasn't even trying.

01:02:46.000 You remember Tony Ellen?

01:02:47.000 Yes.

01:02:48.000 So he was 20 minutes late to get a steak dinner at the Horseshoe.

01:02:52.000 It cost me about $12,000.

01:02:53.000 I went down there and said, let me just pitch $300,000.

01:02:57.000 And they just pounded me, right?

01:02:59.000 So I got the tournament money after winning.

01:03:02.000 It was $8,000.

01:03:04.000 Went straight to the cage and cashed it.

01:03:06.000 Went straight to the blackjack.

01:03:08.000 Yeah, I had it about 10 minutes.

01:03:10.000 So the $8,000 was gone.

01:03:12.000 And so this guy that was playing there, his name was Frank Seals.

01:03:16.000 And he was a legendary steak horse.

01:03:19.000 And he used to take CJ when he was a kid and a lot of players throughout the years.

01:03:23.000 And he said, hey, if you're ever bored and you want to come up to Morristown, Tennessee, I got a kid, I'll let you play.

01:03:29.000 If you still want to play, you know.

01:03:30.000 I like the way you gamble is what he said.

01:03:32.000 He watched me play blackjack.

01:03:34.000 Blow all my money, right?

01:03:35.000 Yeah.

01:03:36.000 So, yeah, I told him.

01:03:40.000 I said, you ain't dealing with no blackjack up there if I go up there.

01:03:43.000 So anyways, I go up there.

01:03:45.000 So he's got this guy.

01:03:46.000 Mark Owens was his name.

01:03:47.000 Good player.

01:03:49.000 And real high gear.

01:03:50.000 Maybe not the most steady player, but real high gear.

01:03:54.000 So we're playing, we start out playing races to nine or ten or something for a thousand.

01:03:59.000 So long story short, I got him 10,000 loser, okay?

01:04:03.000 And it's because we raised it and whatnot.

01:04:06.000 And so now the whole town, this is a small town, okay, just up in the northeast corner of Tennessee.

01:04:12.000 So the whole town starts coming in, and this is their hero.

01:04:15.000 So my buddy starts taking bets on the side.

01:04:19.000 So now I got him 10,000 loser, and he says, we want to play a set for 10,000.

01:04:25.000 This is what Frank says, the steak horse.

01:04:28.000 He says, but we need to call eight.

01:04:29.000 You know what the call eight is, of course, right?

01:04:32.000 So I said, okay, yeah.

01:04:35.000 So we're going to race to 15. So we're betting about 10,000 on the side.

01:04:41.000 Okay, so we're playing a set for like 20. Alright, because my buddy's got a list of bets this long with all the town people.

01:04:47.000 You know what I mean?

01:04:48.000 Yeah.

01:04:49.000 So...

01:04:50.000 It's 9-8 me.

01:04:52.000 Instead of playing safe on the 8, I try to jack up off the end rail and stab it in and draw my ball.

01:04:56.000 You know what I mean?

01:04:57.000 And I bobble it.

01:04:58.000 He makes it.

01:04:59.000 He breaks and runs 5 racks.

01:05:01.000 He's up 14-9.

01:05:03.000 So now he breaks, going to 15. And the 4-9 is wired over the spot.

01:05:08.000 He makes an incredible shot on the 1. He's got the 3 down the rail, and he's just got a cupcake on the 4-9.

01:05:14.000 So I turn to my buddy, and I said, man, we ain't got but like 8,000 left.

01:05:18.000 You know?

01:05:19.000 Because we were winner.

01:05:20.000 We start off a thousand a cent.

01:05:21.000 I said, we can't lower the bet.

01:05:23.000 You can't do that.

01:05:24.000 Then they know you're short.

01:05:26.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:05:27.000 So I'm like, what are we going to do?

01:05:29.000 You know, we'll get more money tomorrow.

01:05:31.000 Whatever, right?

01:05:33.000 So the pool table's here, right?

01:05:37.000 He's shooting at this corner.

01:05:39.000 Now Frank is the only guy, he's sitting right here on a stool chair, right?

01:05:43.000 Like a little school chair.

01:05:44.000 Everyone else is way back over here besides me and my buddies over here, right?

01:05:48.000 All the people watching.

01:05:50.000 So he knocks a three in, Mark does, and he comes down.

01:05:52.000 He was kind of one of those guys that would fire the nine in.

01:05:55.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:05:56.000 You've seen him.

01:05:57.000 He rifles this 4-9.

01:05:59.000 He could have just tapped it and it would have rolled right in the corner.

01:06:03.000 This ball went down and swirled around in the pocket.

01:06:07.000 Jumped almost all the way back out to the spot.

01:06:10.000 That's how far it went.

01:06:12.000 Oh my God.

01:06:12.000 Yeah.

01:06:13.000 All the money's on the light, right?

01:06:15.000 So Frank, he knows about pulling the balls aimed directly at Frank.

01:06:19.000 So as soon as he hits it, he knows it's in.

01:06:21.000 So Frank starts to get up and get the money.

01:06:23.000 I said, oh, Frank.

01:06:24.000 I said, the nine's on the table.

01:06:26.000 You know, Frank's like 75 years old.

01:06:27.000 He's got glasses.

01:06:29.000 So I said, the nine's on the table.

01:06:31.000 He says, oh, I'm sorry.

01:06:32.000 You know, like he didn't realize it didn't go in.

01:06:34.000 Well, it did go in.

01:06:35.000 It just came back out.

01:06:36.000 Yeah.

01:06:37.000 Never pocketed another ball the whole set.

01:06:40.000 I played safe on that first shot.

01:06:41.000 I broke around, played safe, broke around, beat him 15-14.

01:06:45.000 Wow.

01:06:45.000 Yeah.

01:06:46.000 So now the kid, he quits, and he's literally crying out on the stairs, okay?

01:06:53.000 So Frank says, come back the next day, we'll play you some more.

01:06:56.000 So we come back the next day, we start out playing like for 3,500, races to 11. So I beat him three sets.

01:07:03.000 So he says, hey, he's going to take a break.

01:07:06.000 He said, I'll play you some more in a minute.

01:07:07.000 I'm like, sweet, man.

01:07:08.000 This is good.

01:07:09.000 Good action, you know?

01:07:11.000 So Frank's sitting in this chair right here, and the kid's practicing a little bit, and he hits a ball in that same pocket.

01:07:16.000 It jumps the pocket, hits Frank dead in the eye, right?

01:07:19.000 And his glasses.

01:07:20.000 And blood's going everywhere.

01:07:22.000 Jesus Christ.

01:07:23.000 Oh, yeah.

01:07:23.000 Yeah, it was ironically crazy, right?

01:07:26.000 So we end up having to quit, and we never end up playing again.

01:07:30.000 So the same pocket that kind of saved me the day before, right?

01:07:34.000 Kind of got them the next day, and we ended up never playing, yeah.

01:07:37.000 Funny story.

01:07:38.000 What kind of shitty table is that?

01:07:39.000 It was a gold crown, but it had replacement pockets.

01:07:43.000 You know, the big black ones that go in, they're kind of bulky, they kind of move around a little bit.

01:07:48.000 Oh, they did a shitty job.

01:07:48.000 Yeah, yeah, it's old school pool hall.

01:07:51.000 Oh, man.

01:07:52.000 Yeah, that Frank, he was something else.

01:07:54.000 So, I'm playing, right?

01:07:56.000 And he pulls up his overall.

01:08:00.000 And I see a gunshot wound in his leg.

01:08:03.000 I said, dang, Frank, you got shot?

01:08:05.000 He said, yeah, my wife shot me about 10 years ago.

01:08:08.000 I said, man, you mean your ex-wife, don't you?

01:08:10.000 He says, no.

01:08:11.000 He says, I'm still with her, right?

01:08:13.000 I said, damn.

01:08:15.000 About three months later, she killed him.

01:08:18.000 After I played it.

01:08:19.000 Yeah, same lady that shot her ten months before.

01:08:22.000 Oh my god.

01:08:24.000 She shot him dead?

01:08:25.000 Dead.

01:08:26.000 Dead.

01:08:27.000 I think she did six months in a mental place and then she's out.

01:08:30.000 Oh my god.

01:08:31.000 Six months?

01:08:32.000 Six months, that was it.

01:08:34.000 That's it?

01:08:34.000 She shot him twice?

01:08:37.000 Did he not tell about more?

01:08:39.000 I think it was like five of them in the chat.

01:08:41.000 Oh, when she killed him.

01:08:42.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:08:43.000 Remember, I was telling you about that buried money.

01:08:46.000 Yeah.

01:08:46.000 Frank gave me some of that buried money.

01:08:48.000 Did he?

01:08:49.000 I think he was kind of like a numbers guy, you know, how they run the lottery out in the country on their own and stuff.

01:08:54.000 Yeah, I think he did stuff like that.

01:08:57.000 My grandma was involved with that.

01:08:59.000 Yeah, that's a big thing in the Northeast.

01:09:01.000 The numbers.

01:09:02.000 Yeah.

01:09:03.000 Yeah, that's another thing.

01:09:05.000 People look forward to that kind of gambling.

01:09:07.000 I just don't like restrictions on gambling, and I know people have problems with it.

01:09:11.000 I really do.

01:09:12.000 And I've met a lot of people that are, like, degenerate gamblers, and it's horrible to see.

01:09:16.000 Oh, yeah.

01:09:17.000 They get so addicted, they're so fucked up, but it's still fun, and especially with pool.

01:09:24.000 It's really fun.

01:09:25.000 I mean, you're gambling in a game of skill, you know?

01:09:29.000 Yeah.

01:09:30.000 Well, I've rarely seen where someone got their life messed up, really.

01:09:33.000 I mean, don't get me wrong.

01:09:34.000 You might not have the best relationship with your lady, you know, if you're gone all the time for days at a time, right?

01:09:41.000 But as far as like financially, really, I've seen it in other kind of gambling and whatnot.

01:09:46.000 You've seen that, I'm sure.

01:09:47.000 Oh, yeah.

01:09:48.000 Yeah.

01:09:48.000 I've seen it in all kinds of sports gambling in particular.

01:09:51.000 Did you ever see that movie, Uncut Gems?

01:09:54.000 Yeah.

01:09:55.000 Adam Sandler movie.

01:09:56.000 What a great fucking movie.

01:09:57.000 What a great movie.

01:09:58.000 I like him in serious roles a lot.

01:10:00.000 I never saw him in one before that.

01:10:02.000 But that one is so good.

01:10:04.000 You get so much anxiety watching that.

01:10:07.000 You're like, don't do it.

01:10:08.000 What are you doing?

01:10:09.000 What do you do?

01:10:10.000 But we know guys like that.

01:10:11.000 Oh, absolutely.

01:10:12.000 100%.

01:10:13.000 Those are real guys.

01:10:15.000 Oh, 100%.

01:10:15.000 And it's amazing because usually they get a hold of a big number and it still doesn't matter.

01:10:21.000 No.

01:10:22.000 You know, like, I mean, it used to be like, all right, they got a hold of 30. How long are they going to hold on 30?

01:10:27.000 They got a hold of 60. They want to choose.

01:10:30.000 Yeah, but I mean, same guys, I'm seeing them get a hold of fives and six hundreds and still going and losing it all.

01:10:36.000 Yeah.

01:10:36.000 Quickly.

01:10:37.000 Yeah.

01:10:38.000 Month, three weeks.

01:10:39.000 Well, I mean, I went broke tons of times.

01:10:42.000 I mean, I'd tail between the legs, coming back home.

01:10:44.000 But I mean, I'd leave with like 3,000, 4,000.

01:10:48.000 And normally, odds are the value I was going to come back pumped up.

01:10:52.000 Sometimes I came back broke.

01:10:53.000 But it wasn't like, you know...

01:10:56.000 Like that.

01:10:57.000 I was watching Dana White gamble in Vegas.

01:10:59.000 He was playing blackjack.

01:11:00.000 And when I got there, he was down 600,000.

01:11:04.000 Oh, yeah.

01:11:05.000 And Ronda winning it all back and plus 600. Oh yeah.

01:11:09.000 But like, jeez.

01:11:10.000 Like the guy we were talking about earlier with the IPT. Yes.

01:11:13.000 He used to like that real high dollar background.

01:11:16.000 20, 30,000 a hand.

01:11:18.000 Yeah.

01:11:19.000 Goes fast.

01:11:20.000 Oh boy, it does.

01:11:21.000 Yeah.

01:11:22.000 That's just so crazy.

01:11:23.000 But I guess when you just have like fucking shit tons of money and that's the only way you can get excited.

01:11:30.000 Like it has to be dangerous.

01:11:32.000 Phew.

01:11:32.000 I don't know.

01:11:34.000 I think there's got to be a hypnotism.

01:11:36.000 I mean, they obviously aren't going to go broke, right?

01:11:40.000 Right.

01:11:40.000 I mean, maybe.

01:11:41.000 I hope not.

01:11:42.000 Yeah, I mean, look, it could happen if you just get really wacky and keep going.

01:11:47.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:11:48.000 I mean, you could get yourself stressed out about it, I guess.

01:11:51.000 But, I mean, you know.

01:11:52.000 I mean, it hasn't happened to the people that I know, but it could.

01:11:55.000 If I had a billion dollars, though, I think if I like playing blackjack, maybe a thousand hands is just going to be just as satisfying.

01:12:01.000 Just maybe be pool player.

01:12:03.000 I don't know.

01:12:04.000 I don't know, Jim.

01:12:04.000 Maybe my mentality.

01:12:05.000 I don't know.

01:12:06.000 No, generally.

01:12:07.000 Because I used to play a lot higher than a thousand a hand.

01:12:09.000 A couple of whiskeys in there.

01:12:11.000 Yeah, oh, 100%.

01:12:12.000 Yeah, a couple of whiskeys in there.

01:12:13.000 You might be betting 150,000 a hand.

01:12:15.000 Yeah, maybe.

01:12:16.000 Let's go.

01:12:16.000 I will raise my bet if I get 100%.

01:12:18.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

01:12:19.000 That's pool room mentality.

01:12:21.000 Yeah.

01:12:22.000 Only way to win, really.

01:12:23.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:12:25.000 It's just the art of that, though, is what was always fun to watch.

01:12:29.000 The art of, like, making the game and guys going in knowing that they were eventually probably going to play even.

01:12:35.000 Like, bro, I need the eight.

01:12:37.000 I need the fucking eight.

01:12:38.000 I need the breaks.

01:12:39.000 I need this.

01:12:39.000 I need that.

01:12:40.000 And there's this banter back and forth and everybody circling around watching this drama play out.

01:12:45.000 Yeah, and you're trying to figure out who to bet on.

01:12:48.000 You can't just sit on the sidelines waiting for the nut game.

01:12:52.000 You won't get any action.

01:12:53.000 It's like a poker guy, they know he's got aces or kings if he moves all in kind of thing.

01:12:58.000 And there's also an understanding amongst guys who gamble with each other on a regular basis.

01:13:02.000 That it's, I'm losing money to you, you're losing money to me, we're all good.

01:13:07.000 Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

01:13:08.000 Just a little going this way, a little going that way.

01:13:11.000 There's very rarely were bad feelings after guys would lose money gambling.

01:13:16.000 I mean, some guys get pissed off at themselves.

01:13:19.000 Yeah.

01:13:20.000 I mean, areas were different, I think.

01:13:22.000 And maybe you noticed it more.

01:13:23.000 But like Houston, where I was from, it was just gambling was gambling.

01:13:27.000 Personal was personal.

01:13:28.000 I mean, it was the most cut and dry I'd ever been around.

01:13:31.000 And it was cut and dry sort of in the culture, like as you were coming up.

01:13:35.000 Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

01:13:36.000 Everybody did it that way.

01:13:37.000 Absolutely, yeah.

01:13:38.000 Whereas, like Dallas, we always called it more nitty.

01:13:41.000 Oh, right.

01:13:42.000 But, you know, it just was more nitty.

01:13:45.000 It wasn't necessarily nitty.

01:13:47.000 It was just more nitty, you know?

01:13:48.000 More nitty than Houston.

01:13:49.000 Than Houston was, yeah.

01:13:50.000 Nitty is someone who's very conservative in your gambling.

01:13:55.000 Yeah, fire one barrel at you.

01:13:58.000 Yeah, if you lose, you're out of there.

01:13:59.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:14:00.000 Where did that term come from?

01:14:02.000 Nitty?

01:14:02.000 Yeah.

01:14:03.000 You got me.

01:14:04.000 That's an old term.

01:14:05.000 Old.

01:14:06.000 Old term.

01:14:06.000 And it's used.

01:14:07.000 Not just pool.

01:14:08.000 I mean, I've heard it outside of pool.

01:14:10.000 Well, you know, Houston's been around on the map for the gamma.

01:14:12.000 That's where Cesar Morales went, right?

01:14:14.000 That was Efren's name.

01:14:15.000 Yeah.

01:14:16.000 And he passed as a Hispanic guy from San Antonio.

01:14:19.000 Yeah.

01:14:20.000 That funny story, if you ever heard of Red Walling, the guy that owned Reds.

01:14:25.000 So I guess Efren was in the semifinal.

01:14:29.000 and uh of the tournament still under the name of Cesar Morales and he went up to Red Walling and he says uh Mr. Walling he said I gotta ask you a question or I gotta tell you something my uh my real name isn't Cesar Morales am I gonna get forfeited out of the tournament and not get my money you know he won before he got to win in the tournament he wanted to fess up you know and so Red Walling said yeah just tell us your real name now so we'll make sure you get paid you know Pretty crazy.

01:14:55.000 And that was only like 10 miles from where I was from, but it was before my time.

01:14:59.000 So how did those guys know in the Philippines that there was so much gambling going on in Texas back then?

01:15:05.000 And how did they know they could take this kid from the Philippines who turns out to be one of the greatest players, if not the greatest, that's ever lived, and then just rob everybody?

01:15:15.000 Well, Philippines are everywhere.

01:15:17.000 Filipino people are everywhere.

01:15:20.000 I mean, if you were to go to the tournament, it could be just...

01:15:22.000 I mean, you just pick a place out of the blue.

01:15:24.000 If there's a Filipino champion there, there's going to be groves of them showing up to watch.

01:15:29.000 So they kind of keep control of it.

01:15:31.000 Plus there was one of the original guys that was a top player, him and his brother, Rudy Pascual and J.R. Pascual.

01:15:39.000 They came before Ephraim and all of them and they lived in Houston.

01:15:42.000 So they kind of brought them there for the Reds tournaments and all the action.

01:15:46.000 Yeah.

01:15:48.000 So kind of like we said, information.

01:15:50.000 Right.

01:15:50.000 So they knew Efren in the Philippines.

01:15:54.000 So Efren had already had a name.

01:15:56.000 So if he had tried to come over as Efren Reyes, people would already have heard about him.

01:16:00.000 Absolutely.

01:16:01.000 100%.

01:16:01.000 Yeah.

01:16:02.000 And the thing is, then at that point, there were only a couple of them that you heard about from outside of America.

01:16:08.000 So Efren was one of them for sure.

01:16:10.000 It wouldn't get lost.

01:16:11.000 What is the highest stakes match you've ever seen played?

01:16:19.000 Ooh.

01:16:19.000 Probably in New Orleans, there's a billionaire, Carl Baum.

01:16:24.000 I think he took on like $220,000 worth of action.

01:16:28.000 He's not a good player, but he's not a bad player.

01:16:31.000 He's kind of a guy, and he comes down to a few tournaments, and he plays real expensive, you know, on the bar table.

01:16:36.000 He plays nine ball, plays another weak player, or he plays a good player getting a huge spot.

01:16:42.000 And, like, how much is he gambling?

01:16:44.000 Oh, I mean, he's playing, like, six or seven games ahead or maybe a race to nine for, you know, in the middle might be, like, 80 or 100, but he'll bet another 100 on the side.

01:16:53.000 Well, when he comes, everyone bets against him just because, you know, you're looking at the odds, right?

01:16:58.000 Right.

01:16:59.000 Yeah, you're looking at...

01:17:00.000 And that's another thing in the pool room.

01:17:01.000 You might get a good game, but you know the guy's short.

01:17:05.000 Right, right, right.

01:17:05.000 So you've got to wait.

01:17:07.000 You know what I mean?

01:17:08.000 Right, right.

01:17:08.000 You want to get the most out of that game if you do win.

01:17:10.000 You've got to wait until he's plump with cash.

01:17:12.000 Exactly, yeah.

01:17:12.000 Yeah, that's interesting.

01:17:14.000 It's like all knowing when to pull the trigger, what not to, knowing where a person's at.

01:17:20.000 Yeah, when it's all prime.

01:17:21.000 Knowing if they scored recently.

01:17:23.000 Yeah, how they're playing.

01:17:24.000 Tony Allen used to be the best because, you know, people bet on matches and stuff at the tournaments, you know, and he was just so in tune with all the players, you know, some of them their personal lives, you know, and like that makes a huge difference because pool's so mental.

01:17:40.000 Oh yeah, your girlfriend breaks up with you, you're kicked out of your apartment, now you might play like shit.

01:17:46.000 Or if a couple things don't go your way to start with, Tony used to say that.

01:17:49.000 If he doesn't get it his way at the beginning, he's going to fold.

01:17:51.000 He's just in that mood right now.

01:17:53.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:17:55.000 Just so many different aspects.

01:17:57.000 So is the biggest games that you've seen played really from people that aren't the best players?

01:18:05.000 What is the most high stakes between two elite players?

01:18:09.000 Because I know there's some legendary stories about guys like Bustamante and Johnny Archer locking horns and Johnny runs the whole set and Bustamante ups the bet.

01:18:21.000 Yeah, it says flip the coin.

01:18:22.000 Yeah, double the bet and beat him.

01:18:24.000 I played on that table that was in Toledo, Ohio.

01:18:28.000 13 and out.

01:18:29.000 13 racks and out.

01:18:31.000 Johnny broke and ran 13 racks in a row.

01:18:33.000 I would never play with another cue ever for a second in life.

01:18:38.000 That cue is an extension of his soul.

01:18:40.000 To run 13 racks is so bananas.

01:18:44.000 How much were they gambling?

01:18:46.000 I think it was like 10. You know, back then, the thing is, these days, of course, everything's gone up in money, right?

01:18:51.000 But there's more being bet now.

01:18:53.000 I would say like when Dennis and Shane played a few years ago.

01:18:56.000 Here it is.

01:18:57.000 That was a huge one.

01:18:58.000 It says, one time we're in Toledo and Archer is playing Bustamante.

01:19:01.000 A race to 13 for 2,000.

01:19:02.000 2,000.

01:19:03.000 Okay.

01:19:04.000 13 consecutive racks in a row.

01:19:06.000 Yeah.

01:19:08.000 Whew.

01:19:09.000 Johnny was a bad hombre for money.

01:19:12.000 He was awesome in the tournament.

01:19:14.000 He was awesome in everything.

01:19:15.000 Yeah, I just rarely ever saw him get beat for money.

01:19:17.000 I mean, he would give guys that were really good players the last four, you know what I mean, on tight tables.

01:19:22.000 I got this, Jeremy.

01:19:23.000 No problem.

01:19:25.000 Never saw him practice, by the way.

01:19:27.000 You know, the guy like Johnny, with all this new technology with carbon fiber cues and the like, does a guy like that still play with a wood shaft?

01:19:36.000 I think so.

01:19:37.000 I haven't seen him play in quite some time.

01:19:39.000 It's been probably four or five years that I've seen since he's really been in a big competitive tournament.

01:19:45.000 Now, he did play the U.S. Open a couple years ago.

01:19:48.000 Won a match or two, but didn't do that well.

01:19:51.000 So I don't think he's playing a ton.

01:19:54.000 Last I saw him play, I think he opened a pool room there in North Georgia.

01:20:00.000 Doing a lot of that.

01:20:02.000 But this technology thing, like we were talking about this today, that there's these new carbon fiber shafts, and they're very consistent, and all these people play with them.

01:20:11.000 But some players still prefer the feedback that they get from wood, and that's part of the enjoyment of the game.

01:20:19.000 It's like feeling that feedback in your hand.

01:20:22.000 Yeah, I think so.

01:20:23.000 I mean, you definitely get a lot of feel.

01:20:26.000 You know, you don't want something that's like a 2x4, right?

01:20:28.000 I mean, you know, that's why, you know, players, they break in, like they get a new cue, they break in the shaft, the oil's off your hands, you know, just a number of things you like.

01:20:39.000 I think one of the things about the carbon fiber, which I like, I like it, but you get a lot out of it, but sometimes, you know, if you get a little hairy, the miss can be a little uglier.

01:20:51.000 Really?

01:20:51.000 Yeah.

01:20:51.000 Yeah, just because it does put a little more spin on the ball, you know, it's just a little higher spin rate overall.

01:20:57.000 So, I mean, you know, if you get a little, you know, like say you desailed the ball, it could be real ugly, you know, or if you really overhit it, you know.

01:21:04.000 But my point was that, like, Johnny played perfect with a wooden shaft.

01:21:09.000 Like, how would you convince that guy to even try carbon fiber?

01:21:14.000 Well, if you could just do it a little easier.

01:21:16.000 You know, if you can swing a little...

01:21:17.000 Is that what it is?

01:21:18.000 Is it easier?

01:21:19.000 Yeah, you can swing a little more, you know, subtly.

01:21:23.000 I hate to say soft or anything like that, but just a little less on it overall.

01:21:26.000 Or let's say you're putting a tip and a half of left English.

01:21:30.000 Maybe you only got to go a tip or a half a tip.

01:21:33.000 So a little comfort level, you know, comfort.

01:21:36.000 Overall.

01:21:36.000 It just makes the ball react differently.

01:21:38.000 Yeah.

01:21:39.000 And I don't know exactly all the technology behind it other than, you know, you can build them how you want.

01:21:45.000 Exactly.

01:21:46.000 Right?

01:21:46.000 Wood, there's still a little variable, I think.

01:21:49.000 Yeah, but the thing that bums me out is that part of Poole is the custom cue makers.

01:21:56.000 There's these guys that are making these beautiful, functional pieces of art.

01:22:01.000 Oh, absolutely.

01:22:02.000 Absolutely.

01:22:03.000 You know, with the carbon fiber, I guess most of the companies, and really with the playability, it's gone to more performance than it is, even though they make attractive cues and all that.

01:22:14.000 But you wouldn't say it's the time and effort like some of your handcrafted cues.

01:22:19.000 Right.

01:22:20.000 It's just about winning.

01:22:21.000 Yeah.

01:22:22.000 It's not about showing up with a battle bush.

01:22:23.000 Yeah.

01:22:24.000 Yeah.

01:22:24.000 Doom.

01:22:25.000 It's a great scene.

01:22:27.000 Oh, I love it.

01:22:27.000 I've made a post about my new cue the other day referring to that.

01:22:31.000 Do you know the video game Doom was named from that scene?

01:22:34.000 Yeah.

01:22:34.000 A bunch of people made that comment on the post.

01:22:37.000 Isn't that amazing?

01:22:37.000 Yeah, that is amazing.

01:22:38.000 I didn't know that, actually.

01:22:39.000 Yeah.

01:22:40.000 John Carmack told me that.

01:22:41.000 Yeah.

01:22:41.000 And then I think, you know, how the phones listen to you.

01:22:44.000 I was watching some clip, and I think you mentioned that on one of your podcasts, I think.

01:22:48.000 Yeah.

01:22:49.000 Yeah, they wanted to be doomed for the video game industry.

01:22:54.000 Yeah, that's crazy.

01:22:55.000 And it's such a great name for a crazy video game.

01:22:58.000 No, it is, but where they...

01:22:59.000 That they got it from Tom Cruise in The Color of Money.

01:23:01.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:23:02.000 Doom didn't come up from something else.

01:23:04.000 It came up from there.

01:23:05.000 Did you ever get into video games?

01:23:07.000 You know, we had an Atari.

01:23:10.000 Played it for a few days after Christmas.

01:23:13.000 Weren't allowed inside very much.

01:23:15.000 Oh, really?

01:23:16.000 Six of us.

01:23:16.000 Oh, no, no, no, no.

01:23:17.000 Fuck out of the house.

01:23:18.000 Exactly, yeah.

01:23:19.000 Drink out of the water hose.

01:23:21.000 Oh, yeah.

01:23:22.000 Oh, 100%.

01:23:22.000 I bet you've got an amazing immune system.

01:23:24.000 It's really good.

01:23:26.000 I've been lucky my whole life, knock on wood.

01:23:28.000 It's from hose drinking.

01:23:30.000 Joey Diaz always talks about that.

01:23:31.000 Yeah, and we swam in the bay, which was just right across the street.

01:23:35.000 Joey Diaz always like, I drank puddle water.

01:23:37.000 Yeah, we weren't allowed there too often until later in the evening.

01:23:42.000 And my mom wasn't no neat freak or anything.

01:23:43.000 It was just pandemonium, I think.

01:23:45.000 And plus, we had tons of shit to do.

01:23:47.000 We had the park.

01:23:47.000 We had our guys.

01:23:49.000 Like I said, go in the bay, go play ball.

01:23:52.000 Yeah.

01:23:53.000 Sounds like an idyllic childhood.

01:23:55.000 Sounds great.

01:23:56.000 Yeah, my neighborhood was cool.

01:23:58.000 It was a little lower class, but it was cool.

01:24:00.000 It was an old one, like I said, on the water.

01:24:02.000 I mean, there were fights every day, but, you know, we all knew each other, you know?

01:24:05.000 But my point is, it's like the video game thing gets people, too, and it got me as well for a while.

01:24:10.000 I was completely addicted to playing online Quake.

01:24:15.000 Yeah.

01:24:16.000 I played, like, these 3D shooters.

01:24:17.000 I'd jump on these...

01:24:19.000 You could...

01:24:19.000 Anytime you want.

01:24:20.000 Like, it'd be 2 o'clock in the morning.

01:24:21.000 You could log on, and you find some server somewhere.

01:24:24.000 And there's some guy waiting to play.

01:24:26.000 And then you just chase after each other in these maps.

01:24:29.000 And you hear footsteps and rockets coming at you.

01:24:32.000 Oh, yeah.

01:24:34.000 I've bought a lot of that stuff for the kids, Jeff.

01:24:36.000 Have you?

01:24:36.000 Oh, yeah.

01:24:37.000 But what it doesn't do, though...

01:24:39.000 It's like, it doesn't clear your mind the way pool does.

01:24:44.000 When you're playing pool, I think it's a lot like archery in that it's so difficult to do, to have like precision and move the ball.

01:24:53.000 Occasionally when you do it right and you're cleaning your mind, it's like so satisfying.

01:24:57.000 Whereas video games are just exciting.

01:24:59.000 When it's over, you're like cracked out.

01:25:01.000 Yeah.

01:25:01.000 When I would end, I'd be like, oh Jesus Christ, like adrenaline's all fucked up.

01:25:05.000 Like, I gotta go home.

01:25:06.000 Yeah.

01:25:06.000 This is too much.

01:25:07.000 It's too crazy.

01:25:08.000 Yeah, we talk about a 12-year-old.

01:25:09.000 It's like, oh, he's been on there too long.

01:25:11.000 You know, we can tell the difference for sure.

01:25:13.000 Pull him.

01:25:14.000 Get him some moisture and some vitamins.

01:25:17.000 100%.

01:25:18.000 Well, that game room I got a job in, it had like probably 80 video games.

01:25:22.000 Oh, yeah.

01:25:22.000 And then it had, you know, we didn't have a nine-foot table.

01:25:25.000 We had four bites and then a snooker table and like some foosball.

01:25:28.000 A couple of them I liked, like Robotron, but like actual gaming, no, I never got into it.

01:25:33.000 I was always either playing baseball or tennis or, you know, something.

01:25:37.000 Yeah.

01:25:38.000 You're probably lucky.

01:25:39.000 But now people are making money doing that, too.

01:25:42.000 Oh, 100%.

01:25:42.000 People used to say kids are wasting their lives and now they're making shit tons of money playing video games.

01:25:47.000 Yeah, well, I think he's one guy I know here for a long time from the pool.

01:25:51.000 He's worked for EA for like 20 years?

01:25:54.000 He's like a developer, you know, tests their games, all he does is pretty much give them feedback, I think.

01:25:59.000 Those guys who develop those games, those guys work hard.

01:26:04.000 Those guys work hard.

01:26:05.000 Those are long hours.

01:26:07.000 Like when they're putting together, like it's crunch time, and they're getting to the end of a video game, they basically like live in their studios and offices.

01:26:15.000 Well, I believe it.

01:26:16.000 I know a guy back, he was a year ahead of me, graduated valedictorian of my high school, and he was moving to Japan, to Asia, to get into gaming, like developing gaming.

01:26:27.000 He knew a long time ago that the addiction was going to go crazy for gaming.

01:26:32.000 Like it was going to be kind of like, oh, I can stay at home and do something else here again that entertains me.

01:26:37.000 Right.

01:26:38.000 You know?

01:26:39.000 Yeah.

01:26:39.000 Yeah, it's, I mean, for kids, it's so captivating.

01:26:43.000 It's so difficult for them to put them down, because they're so good now, and the graphics are so insane.

01:26:49.000 It's like, it's so much more exciting.

01:26:50.000 And for a lot of kids, they don't want to be outside.

01:26:52.000 Maybe they get picked on.

01:26:53.000 Maybe someone fucks with them in school.

01:26:55.000 They just can't wait to live in that world.

01:26:57.000 Well, I think the parents, too, to be fair.

01:27:00.000 I see parents that don't mind the kids being upstairs, you know, doing their own thing, self-included at times.

01:27:06.000 You know, I'd catch myself, hey, he's been up there too long, you know, kind of thing, you know.

01:27:11.000 And I guess it wasn't that long ago you were playing those games, so, you know, even guys our age can get addicted to those things, right?

01:27:17.000 Oh, yeah.

01:27:17.000 We set up a local area network at our old studio, and I had a quick cold turkey.

01:27:23.000 I was like, this is too much.

01:27:25.000 Jamie and me and our friend Jeff would be going at it constantly, bring people in and play them.

01:27:30.000 It was fun.

01:27:31.000 It's too fun, though.

01:27:33.000 Too crazy.

01:27:33.000 Just too addictive.

01:27:35.000 Yeah, I have a friend in St. Louis.

01:27:36.000 He has places all over St. Louis and other towns just for gaming.

01:27:40.000 People can come in 24-7.

01:27:41.000 They pay a membership.

01:27:43.000 Bunch of couches set up.

01:27:45.000 Bunch of gaming set up.

01:27:46.000 Oh, so they just come in and just log on to a game.

01:27:48.000 Yeah.

01:27:49.000 Yeah.

01:27:50.000 They pay a monthly for it.

01:27:52.000 Makes sense.

01:27:53.000 Especially if you can't afford great equipment.

01:27:55.000 Yeah, and I think it's social too.

01:27:57.000 I think it's fairly social.

01:27:59.000 Oh yeah, for sure.

01:28:00.000 It's probably a great place to buy weed too.

01:28:02.000 Maybe.

01:28:04.000 I would imagine.

01:28:05.000 They have the automated pool rooms now around the country where there's no one working.

01:28:11.000 Automated pool rooms.

01:28:12.000 Oh, yeah.

01:28:12.000 There's several throughout the country now where you just, you know, they got 10 tables or whatever.

01:28:17.000 They got vending machines and whatnot.

01:28:18.000 You just have your card that lets you in.

01:28:21.000 It has cameras and all that.

01:28:23.000 You have to be there with a member if you're not, you know what I mean?

01:28:25.000 Kind of like you just pay a monthly fee.

01:28:28.000 Oh, I see.

01:28:28.000 Oh, so you log in with your card and however many hours you play, does it charge you by the hour?

01:28:35.000 No.

01:28:36.000 Well, a lot of them have, like, you can buy the membership plus so many hours a month at a discounted charge.

01:28:41.000 You understand?

01:28:42.000 You know what I mean?

01:28:43.000 Where you get a little break.

01:28:44.000 Or you can just pay the hourly, I think.

01:28:46.000 So, like, your credit card's on file or something.

01:28:48.000 That's kind of a bummer.

01:28:49.000 Because, like, the house man at a pool hall, there's always been some interesting humans.

01:28:54.000 Oh, absolutely, yeah.

01:28:55.000 Like, how can you get rid of the house man?

01:28:57.000 Yeah, but I mean, you know, for big places like Miami has one, Des Moines has one, Seattle has one that's kind of part-time, meaning half the week they're kind of regular, and then the other half of the week they're kind of automated on the slower days.

01:29:13.000 I mean, I guess it's better than not being open.

01:29:16.000 Well, they can go 24-7 also.

01:29:18.000 A lot of them are 24-7 where people can, you know, kind of like a gym.

01:29:22.000 They can kind of go at their own leisure.

01:29:24.000 So you have a car to get in.

01:29:25.000 Yeah.

01:29:26.000 So it's a club.

01:29:27.000 Yeah, basically.

01:29:28.000 Well, that makes sense.

01:29:30.000 Yeah, it's better.

01:29:31.000 I mean, a lot of people carry some bigger products out of there and whatnot, sell you some stuff, make an appointment for this.

01:29:37.000 Maybe like Tony Robles, you know him?

01:29:40.000 Sure.

01:29:40.000 Yeah, he's part of one in Miami.

01:29:43.000 Oh, yeah?

01:29:43.000 And he coaches a lot out of there and stuff.

01:29:45.000 Yeah.

01:29:46.000 Oh.

01:29:46.000 Yeah, that's alright.

01:29:47.000 That makes sense.

01:29:48.000 That makes a lot of sense.

01:29:50.000 So, how often are you on the road doing commentary now?

01:29:59.000 Probably 15 weeks a year, probably, or so.

01:30:01.000 But I do some remotely from home as well.

01:30:04.000 But the bigger events, I travel.

01:30:06.000 Do you ever play when you go to these places?

01:30:09.000 Occasionally, but not in the tournament, of course.

01:30:10.000 I'm just working, right?

01:30:11.000 But do you ever match up?

01:30:13.000 I actually played a guy in London a couple months ago.

01:30:15.000 Yeah?

01:30:16.000 Yeah, and I think I surprised him a little bit.

01:30:21.000 He's a good player, you know, this guy.

01:30:23.000 Right, but he thought you were done.

01:30:24.000 Yeah, I think he thought he was going to win.

01:30:26.000 You know, he had beaten Darren Appleton last year, gambling, you know, so that tells you he's a good player, you know.

01:30:31.000 Yeah.

01:30:31.000 I mean, I think he was an underdog playing Darren, but he did beat him.

01:30:34.000 And, uh, so, and he's kind of a crazy guy, like known to do some super crazy stuff, like probably stuff I can't say on here, you know.

01:30:43.000 Okay.

01:30:43.000 You know, like, you can just imagine, just crazy.

01:30:47.000 Debauchery.

01:30:47.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:30:48.000 And, uh, He was like a perfect gentleman with me.

01:30:52.000 No problems ever.

01:30:54.000 Just a nice guy.

01:30:56.000 Took his beating easily.

01:30:59.000 He wants to play again actually, so we'll see.

01:31:01.000 Oh wow.

01:31:02.000 Now a guy like that, when he wants to play again, is he trying to get a spot?

01:31:05.000 No.

01:31:05.000 Too proud, this guy.

01:31:07.000 Really?

01:31:08.000 Yeah, but that's good, though.

01:31:09.000 I mean, I think he's a very, very wealthy man, kind of like family stuff, but I can't remember him ever asking for a spot from any good player.

01:31:18.000 Oh, wow.

01:31:19.000 Yeah.

01:31:19.000 Well, that's where he gets his juice, right?

01:31:22.000 Well, he tries to beat you with the bet.

01:31:23.000 You know, like he went on, I'll play SVB, not 2,000 a set, 2,000 a game, you know, pounds a game.

01:31:30.000 Oh, right.

01:31:31.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:31:31.000 So, you know, he didn't try that with me as much, but I beat him, you know, like three sets.

01:31:37.000 We were betting that much, 1,000, right?

01:31:38.000 A couple sets, 1,000.

01:31:40.000 But then he went to like, let's play 3,000 a game, you know.

01:31:45.000 I'm like...

01:31:47.000 Yeah.

01:31:47.000 I mean, yeah, we're going to put up like 60,000, let's go.

01:31:50.000 You know what I mean?

01:31:51.000 But, I mean, let's not do it and just play like two games.

01:31:54.000 I don't want to do that.

01:31:55.000 Right.

01:31:55.000 So, better off to just play sets and know where you're at.

01:31:58.000 How many different pros is this guy matched up with?

01:32:01.000 Several.

01:32:02.000 I mean, I think he's played Darren a few times.

01:32:04.000 He plays all the English guys over there.

01:32:06.000 I think he actually has played Shane before.

01:32:10.000 Really?

01:32:10.000 Yeah, I think, of course, Shane beat him.

01:32:12.000 But yeah, he tries to play as many as he can.

01:32:15.000 He plays a lot of local guys over in England.

01:32:17.000 Is that common, that guys match up like that in England?

01:32:20.000 No, this is the guy that kind of creates the action.

01:32:23.000 Oh, really?

01:32:24.000 Yeah, most of the action that happens with the good players is through this guy.

01:32:28.000 Wow.

01:32:29.000 But now, you know what English 8-Ball is, right?

01:32:31.000 Yes.

01:32:32.000 Okay, so that's hit the scene again.

01:32:34.000 So now they're playing, you might have saw the video on it, but they're playing like huge sets, 100,000 pound sets of English 8-Ball gambling.

01:32:43.000 Really?

01:32:44.000 Yeah, huge sets, yeah.

01:32:46.000 An English 8-ball, it's just like different colored balls.

01:32:49.000 They don't have numbers, right?

01:32:51.000 Right, and then it's basically like 8-ball.

01:32:54.000 There's maybe a couple little bitty rules that are different, but the pockets are different.

01:32:59.000 Remember like the Chinese 8-ball we were talking about?

01:33:01.000 So they're rounded pockets like a snooker table, but the balls are smaller also.

01:33:05.000 So it's all fairly comparable.

01:33:08.000 So the balls are smaller than pool balls?

01:33:10.000 Yeah.

01:33:11.000 How much smaller?

01:33:12.000 I think they're like snooker ball size.

01:33:14.000 Oh, really?

01:33:15.000 Yeah.

01:33:15.000 Oh, wow.

01:33:16.000 Because the pockets are rounded, you know?

01:33:17.000 And what's the size of the table?

01:33:19.000 Three and a half by seven.

01:33:21.000 Ooh.

01:33:22.000 Oh, interesting.

01:33:23.000 There it is right there.

01:33:24.000 Yeah, that's kind of like what Jason Shaw started playing on for the most part or played a lot of.

01:33:29.000 Darren, he was a world champion at this game.

01:33:31.000 And do these guys use pool cues?

01:33:33.000 Oh, wow, look how small it is in comparison.

01:33:35.000 That's interesting.

01:33:36.000 No, they use, like, snooker cues.

01:33:38.000 Interesting.

01:33:38.000 You know, the ash wood, you know?

01:33:40.000 Now, what is the benefit of that?

01:33:42.000 Because, like, I've always wanted to ask someone like you these questions.

01:33:45.000 Like, Why would they play with a cue that's really, really stiff?

01:33:51.000 Well, that little ball deflects.

01:33:54.000 And, you know, the felt they play on kind of promotes deflection a little easier as well.

01:33:58.000 That thicker nap felt.

01:34:00.000 You know, you've seen the snooker felt, right?

01:34:01.000 Yeah.

01:34:02.000 It's kind of like directional felt.

01:34:03.000 You can actually wave your hand.

01:34:05.000 And the felt's so thick, it'll change directions.

01:34:08.000 You know what I mean?

01:34:08.000 It's much slower.

01:34:10.000 Yeah.

01:34:10.000 Well, they've gotten it to where it's actually much faster now than it ever was.

01:34:14.000 But not as fast as Simone's.

01:34:16.000 No, it shouldn't be.

01:34:17.000 It shouldn't be.

01:34:17.000 Much slower than what American pool players play.

01:34:19.000 And the lighter balls don't go as far.

01:34:22.000 Like three cushion?

01:34:23.000 Mm-hmm.

01:34:23.000 That's why they use the big balls because they go five, six, seven rails with the cue ball, right?

01:34:27.000 Right.

01:34:27.000 Yeah, so it goes a long ways.

01:34:29.000 But yeah, the stiffer.

01:34:30.000 But to me, it's kind of weird because they don't put much side spin on the ball.

01:34:35.000 Right.

01:34:35.000 You know, unless they have a cupcake that's laid up in the hole or they're real close to it, they aren't putting side spin on the ball.

01:34:41.000 Has anybody tried to develop a carbon fiber snooker cue?

01:34:45.000 Oh yeah, there's a guy, Q-Tech actually did, and there's a guy that qualified for the tour using it.

01:34:52.000 He's one of Q-Tech players.

01:34:54.000 The weird thing is how every cue reacts.

01:34:58.000 It's like you're getting feedback from every different one that's slightly different and how it makes the ball react.

01:35:06.000 Yeah, it's like tips and everything else.

01:35:08.000 When you're on the road, do these players ever match up with each other?

01:35:11.000 Oh yeah.

01:35:12.000 Is that common?

01:35:13.000 Yeah, Vegas is a real good one.

01:35:15.000 We're there for two, like the one I saw you at, I met you at, right?

01:35:18.000 What was that, March?

01:35:18.000 I think it was.

01:35:21.000 That one there, we're there for two weeks.

01:35:25.000 And the Europeans and the Asians, they all like to gamble.

01:35:28.000 It's just not something that happens a lot where they're from.

01:35:31.000 But when they get over here, yeah, they make a lot of games.

01:35:33.000 And they're all getting introduced to one pocket.

01:35:35.000 They all like one pocket.

01:35:36.000 You know, so.

01:35:37.000 And one thing about one pocket compared to nine ball is it's just a little easier to make a game.

01:35:42.000 There's more room to match up, you know.

01:35:44.000 So, like, say, for instance, me and you are going to play each other.

01:35:47.000 Nine ball.

01:35:49.000 Most likely, I'm going to give you a game that I can't win at, or I'm going to give you a game that you can't win at.

01:35:55.000 Like the handicap, you know what I'm saying?

01:35:56.000 It's hard to make a game unless you get two guys that are real close to each other.

01:36:00.000 Right.

01:36:01.000 And level.

01:36:02.000 But one pocket, for some reason, the spot shows up.

01:36:06.000 So you can make it, you know, a game where I go to ten balls, you go to five or six or something.

01:36:10.000 Right.

01:36:11.000 And it actually, in time, you'll start to see it's pretty fair, you know, if the game's right.

01:36:16.000 So...

01:36:17.000 Where you can see big ups and downs, tosses and turns.

01:36:21.000 It's just not as exciting to watch.

01:36:23.000 No, no.

01:36:23.000 I mean, you've got to get into it.

01:36:25.000 It's not as fast, right?

01:36:27.000 But most people that get into it, they love it.

01:36:29.000 There's no doubt about that.

01:36:31.000 Oh, I get it.

01:36:32.000 I mean, it's a very intricate game.

01:36:34.000 But as far as getting people to tune into it, you don't have a chance in hell.

01:36:40.000 Oh, no chance.

01:36:40.000 Zero chance.

01:36:41.000 No chance.

01:36:42.000 Even though...

01:36:43.000 In the pool world, which is pretty vast, you know that, it's the biggest watched streams.

01:36:49.000 Really?

01:36:50.000 Yeah, like the head-up matches.

01:36:52.000 You know, there might be a nine-ball that comes along every now and again, but for the most part, because the one pocket people spend, you know, they got money, they're the gamblers, you know what I mean?

01:37:01.000 Yeah.

01:37:02.000 It's weird that that's the big gambling game.

01:37:05.000 Yeah.

01:37:05.000 Well, that's the only reason is, again, because you can take levels.

01:37:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:37:10.000 There's so many ways to match up, you know?

01:37:13.000 I mean, I played games.

01:37:16.000 You know, I played a guy in St. Louis one time, 55 to 8 or 9, I think it was.

01:37:21.000 Wow.

01:37:22.000 So I had to spot my first, whatever, 40 ball.

01:37:25.000 42 balls or something.

01:37:26.000 Wow.

01:37:27.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:37:28.000 Now, that's a little extreme.

01:37:29.000 That's a crazy spot.

01:37:29.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:37:30.000 And, you know, you've got to bet a little higher because the games don't go very fast, right?

01:37:34.000 Right.

01:37:34.000 But you know what backgammon is, of course, right?

01:37:37.000 Mm-hmm.

01:37:38.000 And you know how they play with the cube?

01:37:39.000 Yes.

01:37:40.000 Okay, so we played one pocket big money with the cube.

01:37:43.000 So say me and you are playing the cubes neutral.

01:37:46.000 Well, say you break the balls and say we're playing for 100 a point on the cube, right?

01:37:52.000 And you break the balls and break bad and sell out a shot or scratch or whatever, right?

01:37:57.000 Okay.

01:37:57.000 Well, I can take the cube and offer it to you and you either got to take the cube and now we're playing for 200 because the cube always doubles, right?

01:38:05.000 Like backgammon.

01:38:06.000 Or you got to pay off that game for 100 and we start a new one.

01:38:10.000 Whoa.

01:38:10.000 You see?

01:38:11.000 Like the backgammon, right?

01:38:12.000 Now this is the advantage.

01:38:14.000 If I offer you the cube and you accept it, now you're in control of the cube.

01:38:19.000 So if you turn things around later in the game to where it's your advantage, you're the only one that can offer the cube back.

01:38:26.000 So now you offer it back to me and I say, I either got to pay off the $200 that we're playing for now or now it's worth $400.

01:38:35.000 You see?

01:38:36.000 But now I'm in control of the cube because I accepted it.

01:38:40.000 That's a great way to play.

01:38:42.000 Oh, that's exciting.

01:38:43.000 Oh, yeah, and you can do that almost any gambling.

01:38:45.000 You can do it on the golf course, like your guy hits, right?

01:38:49.000 And before you hit, say he hits it in the rough, I can say, all right, we're playing for 100 a hole.

01:38:54.000 I'm offering you the cube.

01:38:56.000 You want to take the cube and play for 200 this hole before you see me hit, or you want to pay off the 100?

01:39:01.000 Wow.

01:39:03.000 What's it called?

01:39:04.000 Hammerin.

01:39:04.000 Hammerin?

01:39:05.000 Have you done this?

01:39:06.000 A couple times.

01:39:09.000 Jamie's a golf junkie.

01:39:10.000 Well, backgammon's the most popular place the cube's kind of known for.

01:39:14.000 You know what I mean?

01:39:15.000 In gambling.

01:39:16.000 Because it's a numbers game.

01:39:18.000 So you read your numbers, right?

01:39:19.000 Your position.

01:39:20.000 You say, I like my position.

01:39:21.000 I'm going to say, offer you the cube.

01:39:25.000 Great way to gamble, by the way.

01:39:27.000 Especially if you're there for a while.

01:39:28.000 Like you're playing a guy all the time.

01:39:30.000 That's interesting.

01:39:31.000 Yeah.

01:39:32.000 But you can't do that with nine ball, really.

01:39:34.000 But you could do it with one pocket.

01:39:35.000 Because the one pocket, it's a vast game.

01:39:38.000 It might take an hour.

01:39:39.000 Right.

01:39:39.000 You know?

01:39:40.000 Yeah, that makes sense.

01:39:41.000 Yeah.

01:39:41.000 But still, nine ball is the most fun thing to watch.

01:39:44.000 Yeah.

01:39:44.000 Well, especially these days, it's off the charts.

01:39:46.000 I have too much ADD for one pocket.

01:39:49.000 You know how many times I've heard that before?

01:39:51.000 Yeah, from all people that were telling you the truth.

01:39:53.000 And then they end up becoming great one pocket players?

01:39:56.000 Are you talking about, like, pro nine-paw players?

01:39:58.000 It may be, you know, the diagnosis for your ADD. I don't have that kind of time.

01:40:03.000 I barely have time to play a few hours a week.

01:40:06.000 Which is frustrating, because, like, right when I get warmed up, then I gotta stop.

01:40:10.000 I gotta go somewhere.

01:40:11.000 Because we were talking about this.

01:40:12.000 It's so nuts, like, what's required to play really good pool, but it's really eight hours a day.

01:40:17.000 We both kind of agreed on that, right?

01:40:19.000 Oh, you know, I used to gamble and then I'd play between, right?

01:40:23.000 But when I decided to go ahead and just...

01:40:25.000 I moved to Jacksonville, Florida, and I didn't know anyone.

01:40:29.000 Wasn't a real gambling place.

01:40:30.000 Had some action, but...

01:40:31.000 I just said, alright, I'm just going to practice.

01:40:33.000 I'm going to forget about the gambling.

01:40:34.000 I'm going to see how I can do on this tour.

01:40:36.000 It's 98 into 98. Once I started doing the eight hours a day, I went from like 24th to 1st on tour.

01:40:45.000 Wow.

01:40:45.000 I ended up 4th on tour for that year.

01:40:48.000 Earl ended up winning the tour that year.

01:40:50.000 But then got back the first, another 10 months later, a year later, and hovered around the top 10 for 10 or 12 years, mainly just because of that practicing.

01:41:00.000 I could tell the difference between me and the next guy.

01:41:03.000 Yeah.

01:41:04.000 100%.

01:41:05.000 And when you're practicing, you're practicing with purpose, right?

01:41:08.000 You're practicing.

01:41:08.000 You're not just throwing balls around.

01:41:10.000 You're setting things up.

01:41:11.000 Oh yeah.

01:41:12.000 And the main thing to me, and this will make you practice well, is if you just put yourself in a tournament setting.

01:41:19.000 You know, like take your time, go look at your position, you know what I'm saying?

01:41:22.000 Like you don't slow play or anything, just what you would normally do.

01:41:26.000 Right.

01:41:26.000 You know, most guys want to just swing the cue a little bit, and then when they get to the tournament, all of a sudden slow down.

01:41:31.000 Yeah, it's a hard thing to do all of a sudden.

01:41:33.000 Yeah.

01:41:34.000 Better off just go ahead and play speedy around the table like you've been doing.

01:41:37.000 You know?

01:41:39.000 That's the same thing with fighting.

01:41:40.000 Oh, I'm sure.

01:41:41.000 Yeah.

01:41:42.000 You want to really practice the same way that you perform.

01:41:45.000 You don't want to spar hard all the time, but you definitely don't want to try to switch up what you do in the intense competition.

01:41:55.000 Oh, absolutely.

01:41:56.000 I mean, you know Skylar Woodward.

01:41:58.000 Huge, huge talent.

01:42:00.000 I mean, I think he really could be number one player in the world.

01:42:02.000 Yeah, we were just talking about him.

01:42:03.000 Yeah, just a real keen mind.

01:42:05.000 And one thing I tell him, I don't need 1,000 balls a day.

01:42:08.000 I need 300 quality balls a day.

01:42:10.000 You know what I mean?

01:42:11.000 And it's a huge difference.

01:42:13.000 I think he's doing that a little more than it's shown.

01:42:16.000 Yeah, it requires so much of you.

01:42:20.000 It's tough.

01:42:21.000 It requires so much.

01:42:22.000 You have to be a full-on addict.

01:42:25.000 And those are the guys who succeed in this wild game.

01:42:29.000 But everyone is attracted to it.

01:42:32.000 Like, the idea of being a good pool player is very attractive to people.

01:42:36.000 Oh, yeah.

01:42:37.000 Yeah, once you start to see that ball move...

01:42:40.000 But, well, everyone's played it.

01:42:41.000 Right.

01:42:42.000 That's why.

01:42:43.000 Everyone's played it.

01:42:43.000 They realize, oh, yeah, we went out and had a beer and played one game over an hour and a half.

01:42:48.000 You know, or a couple...

01:42:49.000 You know, we had four drinks and we played one game, you know, just because it's so difficult, so...

01:42:54.000 But it's one of those things that if you, like a person like yourself, like literally made a living running around gambling, doing it, like what percentage of the population has ever done that for years and years?

01:43:07.000 Yeah, very slim.

01:43:08.000 My last regular job, I was 19. Wow.

01:43:12.000 A lot of people...

01:43:13.000 Most people laugh.

01:43:15.000 Some are not that happy about that.

01:43:17.000 They've been working pretty hard.

01:43:18.000 Which, hey, it takes a lot of hard work, though.

01:43:21.000 It's not easy.

01:43:22.000 Well, 100% it takes a lot of hard work.

01:43:24.000 But how did you transition from doing that to being able to do such good commentary?

01:43:30.000 Because one of the things that I really enjoy about your commentary is...

01:43:34.000 You explain all the different things that's happening to the ball.

01:43:39.000 You explain what could cause problems.

01:43:42.000 And then a lot of times those problems occur and go, yeah, that's a common mistake.

01:43:46.000 Yeah.

01:43:47.000 How did you develop the ability to articulate all these thoughts so smoothly?

01:43:53.000 I think, man, I grew up loving commentators.

01:43:57.000 You know, whenever I was a kid, you knew all the commentators because there wasn't cable television and all the games weren't on 38 different channels.

01:44:04.000 And, you know, so you kind of learn to know that Cosell was coming on Monday and Frank Gifford and all those guys, right?

01:44:11.000 I really like those moments.

01:44:13.000 And then I was always a sports guy.

01:44:17.000 I've always been able to pick apart the smaller things in the games.

01:44:21.000 I was a really good baseball player, believe it or not.

01:44:23.000 I was a really good tennis player.

01:44:26.000 I used to be like 260 in high school playing tennis.

01:44:29.000 Really?

01:44:30.000 Yeah, but I knew how to take advantage of all the smart sides of the game.

01:44:34.000 So I could pick apart, if I did it this way, he's most likely going to hit the ball back that way.

01:44:39.000 You know, I learned all the little things that would help out a slow, fat guy, right?

01:44:42.000 Right.

01:44:43.000 So, and I did the same in baseball.

01:44:46.000 Just was really good at the things I could do really well.

01:44:48.000 And I think you just learn more that way.

01:44:52.000 And then pool, I was super lucky, Joe.

01:44:55.000 I mean, I was around the Buddy Halls, Jersey Reds.

01:44:58.000 Never had a problem with Nick Varner or any of those guys helping me.

01:45:02.000 And then I played Efren all the time.

01:45:04.000 So learning the game, I learned it a lot.

01:45:07.000 But as far as the speaking side, I never thought twice about it too much.

01:45:10.000 Just kind of do it.

01:45:13.000 But it's that you can articulate all the problems that can occur.

01:45:17.000 Yeah, well, I mean, I've been teaching the last eight years.

01:45:19.000 That helps a little bit.

01:45:21.000 But I've just always been one to be able to see the table.

01:45:24.000 Like, right after the break, I can see a lot.

01:45:26.000 I can just visualize a lot.

01:45:29.000 Recognize a problem pretty easily.

01:45:31.000 And then I pay attention to where, and understand, it's probably the same thing in your field, to where the mistakes are common if you see them coming.

01:45:40.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:45:41.000 Like, you know, from one player to the next, whether it be the position they played, the stroke they made, you know what I mean?

01:45:47.000 Tip position, it doesn't matter.

01:45:48.000 They're pretty common mistakes throughout the players.

01:45:50.000 You just got to be able to recognize them.

01:45:52.000 One of the things that I really love about the game is that there are these two sides of it.

01:45:57.000 There is the quiet tournament play with the applause after a great run out, and then there's the pool hall, which is so different.

01:46:06.000 Yeah.

01:46:30.000 Yeah.

01:46:31.000 When you were coming up, was it more colorful than it is now?

01:46:37.000 Do you think that, like, because there's so many more professionals now, and they're so good?

01:46:42.000 Yeah, and I think at times they're trained to be a little more machine-like, you know what I mean?

01:46:49.000 Like, oh, you can't lose this focus, you know?

01:46:52.000 And where I watch some older tapes, and I see some of the guys, you know, I look at Efren, for instance.

01:46:57.000 Man, you can tell he's nervous, but he's enjoying it.

01:46:59.000 You know, he was really a sportsman out there, and I think that's the one thing we're missing a little bit of.

01:47:05.000 Not the playing side of things, and of course the guys...

01:47:08.000 Personalities.

01:47:08.000 Exactly, you know, and the good thing is they're getting a little more in front of the camera now, so I think it's starting to come out.

01:47:15.000 Yeah, but it's just like you can't fake someone being a nut.

01:47:19.000 Like, you can't fake a Keith McCready type character.

01:47:21.000 Or even an Earl Strickland type character.

01:47:24.000 Like, that's just what they are.

01:47:26.000 Exactly, yeah.

01:47:26.000 You can't just come up with lines trying to.

01:47:29.000 It's just them.

01:47:30.000 Like, you know, if you ever hung out with Earl, which I'm sure you have, if he starts to tell you about stories of how we should be playing and where we should be at, it's...

01:47:39.000 It's some of the greatest experience you'll ever have, because he's so genuine about it.

01:47:43.000 Like, he really, truly believes we're supposed to be, you know, on the biggest stages.

01:47:49.000 Yeah.

01:47:49.000 Well, his commentary is awesome, too.

01:47:51.000 I love when he reviews matches.

01:47:53.000 He just does all by himself.

01:47:54.000 Review it.

01:47:55.000 You can learn a lot from the way he moves the ball around.

01:47:58.000 Oh, yeah.

01:47:59.000 It's very interesting just to hear the thought process behind it.

01:48:03.000 Do you have a part of the game that you like more?

01:48:06.000 Do you like the pool hall gambling part more or the tournament more?

01:48:10.000 Ooh, that's hard.

01:48:13.000 One of the things about pool is we've got to clean up pool and stop gambling.

01:48:17.000 You hear that all the time.

01:48:18.000 And my thought is always like, no you don't.

01:48:22.000 Like, what are you doing?

01:48:24.000 Oh, no.

01:48:25.000 I mean, I think society today is fine with it.

01:48:27.000 You know, of course, you don't want like real bad, bad things happening or anything like that.

01:48:31.000 And I haven't seen that like my career.

01:48:34.000 People ask me, you know, a few times I was a little sketched about this or that.

01:48:39.000 But I mean, you know, for the most part, I mean, it's just as easy as normal normal living over overall, you know, you never got in a situation where you I wouldn't say that.

01:48:48.000 But how many situations did you get in where they were like real?

01:48:51.000 Well, give me one that's touch and go.

01:48:54.000 Well, you know, I think I told you, you know, just being safe, I'd leave the pool room and it wasn't the people you were gambling with.

01:49:00.000 It was the people that knew Cash was around.

01:49:02.000 They weren't necessarily pool players or anything like that.

01:49:05.000 Right.

01:49:06.000 And so you leave the pool room and you drive around 20-30 minutes if you're in Charleston, South Carolina or somewhere, you know, before you went back.

01:49:13.000 Just to make sure no one's following you.

01:49:15.000 Yeah, yeah, I was real lucky, you know, knock on wood, I was never robbed in any form or fashion.

01:49:21.000 A few times I got warned, maybe something, guys were talking about things, so.

01:49:26.000 Oh.

01:49:27.000 Yeah, one time in LA, I was, not to go in too deep, something I'll tell you later, but, you know, there was kind of like some mobster guys that were kind of Kind of taking aim on me and a friend of mine.

01:49:39.000 We'd won a bunch of money around there, like $100,000.

01:49:41.000 And yeah, they were trying to get it, so we got out of there pretty quick.

01:49:46.000 Yeah, and I was very fortunate.

01:49:48.000 Actually, one of the guys I beat out of probably half the money is the one that told me.

01:49:52.000 Really?

01:49:53.000 Yeah, we had become friends and whatnot, and he just came in to me one day, and he kind of laid it on the line a little bit for me.

01:50:00.000 Yeah.

01:50:01.000 Time to get out of Dodge.

01:50:03.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:50:04.000 Even though, you know, he was still wanting to have a stab at his money, of course, but, you know, we continued that later on.

01:50:10.000 Well, that's nice of him to do.

01:50:12.000 Well, heck yeah.

01:50:14.000 Comics have favorite places to perform.

01:50:17.000 Texas was always one of my favorite places to perform before I moved here.

01:50:21.000 Is that the case with pool, too?

01:50:23.000 There's hot spot areas.

01:50:25.000 Oh, absolutely.

01:50:26.000 What causes these?

01:50:28.000 Is it just one great pool room and people...

01:50:32.000 Sometimes, yeah.

01:50:33.000 Usually it's steakhorses.

01:50:35.000 Really?

01:50:36.000 Yeah, I mean, even, you know, you have some guys, like, I used to always bet my own money, you know, like, my whole life.

01:50:42.000 After my first divorce, my only divorce, actually, but after my divorce, I kind of went on tilt a little bit.

01:50:48.000 You know what I mean?

01:50:49.000 Yeah, you know how it goes.

01:50:50.000 Went on tilt, went on the road.

01:50:52.000 I think I told you about that the other night, first time in forever I did that, and So, you know, and of late, when you gamble, it's more like you play one big set for $20,000.

01:51:02.000 You don't start off like we used to do it, $300,000, $400,000 a game, and you try to play for a while, you know?

01:51:07.000 So, but yeah, steakhorses have a big part to do with it.

01:51:11.000 Good pool rooms have a big part to do with it.

01:51:14.000 And then something that you just kind of know, like the Derby City Classic, right?

01:51:17.000 Right.

01:51:17.000 You know there's 10 days of action the whole time, 24-7.

01:51:22.000 Someone needs to do a documentary about that.

01:51:24.000 Yeah, they've had a few people the last few years.

01:51:27.000 You know, 60 Minutes was there for a little while.

01:51:29.000 Yeah, but I mean like a real documentary.

01:51:31.000 Like Justin and I talked about that.

01:51:33.000 Like that is one of the wildest places on earth.

01:51:37.000 For how many days is it?

01:51:38.000 It's like 10 days right in the middle of winter.

01:51:40.000 10 days in the middle of winter.

01:51:42.000 And where are they doing it now?

01:51:43.000 It's at...

01:51:44.000 It's in Elizabeth...

01:51:47.000 It's right outside of Louisville, right across the river in Indiana.

01:51:51.000 Elizabethtown is Indiana.

01:51:53.000 It's at Caesars, the casino.

01:51:56.000 And it's 10 days.

01:51:58.000 Yeah, it's 10 days.

01:51:58.000 10 days of all the pool players from all over the country and the world.

01:52:03.000 Oh, yeah.

01:52:04.000 Coming in and just going crazy.

01:52:07.000 Yeah, well, they have the tournaments, of course.

01:52:09.000 Yeah.

01:52:09.000 Right?

01:52:09.000 You got the main tournaments, the three main ones.

01:52:11.000 Then you got some smaller ones.

01:52:12.000 You got the all-around, but then the action.

01:52:15.000 Yeah, like, you know, some of the big poker players come out there playing $40,000, $50,000 a game, $30,000.

01:52:21.000 Yeah.

01:52:22.000 Yeah.

01:52:23.000 Yeah, them guys, you know, they like their actions.

01:52:26.000 That's the one wild agreement every year that everyone's going to go to this wild place.

01:52:30.000 Yeah, and it's been going like 20-something years now, you know, since like 99 or 98. It's been going strong.

01:52:37.000 Yeah, someone's got to do a documentary on that.

01:52:39.000 Yeah, the Derby City classics got a lot of memories.

01:52:42.000 Because I think, you know, we've always talked about like a thing that could reignite pool.

01:52:46.000 Like The Color of Money did it in the 80s.

01:52:48.000 When that movie came out, pool halls opened up all over the country.

01:52:51.000 Everybody wanted to play pool.

01:52:53.000 And I feel like there's something like that that could be done today.

01:52:59.000 That would really ignite people's excitement in Poole again.

01:53:04.000 I always thought a sitcom with the right script, you know, like a real script.

01:53:08.000 It might be a good documentary.

01:53:09.000 Yeah, a documentary maybe.

01:53:11.000 A good documentary of the Derby City might do it.

01:53:13.000 Yeah.

01:53:13.000 Well, they've had some people, I think Alex Lely, you know him, right?

01:53:17.000 He was the European coach, yeah.

01:53:19.000 I think he did some stuff over there last year and he did some at Buffalo's trying to put something on Netflix maybe.

01:53:24.000 Oh really?

01:53:26.000 Someone mentioned that.

01:53:28.000 But yeah, he's interested in doing all that.

01:53:30.000 If it's done right, you go to the right places and meet the right people and see the right things.

01:53:36.000 It'd give people a window into something that they didn't even know existed.

01:53:39.000 Yeah, well, one of those genius, you know, directors that can give it the right look, you know what I mean?

01:53:44.000 Yeah.

01:53:44.000 That's what I think Scorsese did real well with The Color of Money.

01:53:49.000 The scene where Tom Cruise and Keith McCready are talking shit to each other and playing in the pool hall, that's a fucking classic scene.

01:53:57.000 Yeah, there's a bunch of them in there, though.

01:53:59.000 Yeah, oh, a bunch of classic scenes.

01:54:01.000 But that kind of atmosphere, that kind of place, like, that's Derby City.

01:54:07.000 Oh, 100%.

01:54:07.000 It's Derby City for 10 days.

01:54:09.000 100%, yeah.

01:54:09.000 Yeah, and some of the best players in the world.

01:54:12.000 Yeah, and they're scrambling around like, I mean, because you want to get a bet, you know what I mean?

01:54:16.000 There's like 50 tables in this place.

01:54:18.000 This might be going on over there.

01:54:20.000 You've got to scramble down here to go.

01:54:21.000 Because there's guys there just to gamble, you know?

01:54:23.000 Right.

01:54:24.000 I mean, don't even bring their cues.

01:54:26.000 They're just betting on the side.

01:54:28.000 They're just trying to find a side they like and bet their bankroll, you know?

01:54:32.000 Let's get the quick double up one time.

01:54:34.000 What's the legality of that?

01:54:37.000 Well, you know, for a few years, it seemed like about the fifth, sixth day, there'd start to be some guys coming around, oh, you ain't supposed to be gambling, da-da-da-da, but it seems like the last couple years, no one's ever gotten in trouble.

01:54:51.000 It's just kind of like, all right, now we've got to not talk about it for...

01:54:54.000 But we're talking about it on a podcast that millions of people are going to hear.

01:54:57.000 I know, but just in front of these guys with the suits, you can't talk about it for about maybe an hour or two before they leave.

01:55:03.000 You know what I mean?

01:55:04.000 They're just roaming around.

01:55:06.000 But the last couple of years, I haven't heard of any problems at all.

01:55:12.000 I just love that a place like that exists.

01:55:14.000 Well, they've got to realize, okay, I can understand that they've got a casino and they'd rather you gambling in the casino.

01:55:20.000 But that tournament still brings a ton of casino action for them.

01:55:24.000 Oh my God.

01:55:25.000 Through the roof.

01:55:26.000 For sure.

01:55:27.000 All these gambling junkies.

01:55:28.000 Unbelievable, yeah.

01:55:29.000 But your story about losing all the money instantaneously.

01:55:32.000 100%, yeah.

01:55:34.000 A lot of people over there have gotten beat out of 10, you know.

01:55:39.000 Next day they can't play the same game because the guy went and blew the 10 in the casino.

01:55:43.000 I heard a story about Alex Paguline winning a tournament and then flipping a coin for the winnings and losing.

01:55:50.000 I don't know.

01:55:51.000 I watched him flip one for ten at Griff's.

01:55:53.000 Yeah?

01:55:54.000 Yeah.

01:55:54.000 He lost that one.

01:55:59.000 Now, that's an adrenaline rush.

01:56:00.000 I've never bet ten.

01:56:01.000 I've bet five on a coin toss.

01:56:03.000 Have you really?

01:56:04.000 Oh, yeah.

01:56:04.000 Oh, my God.

01:56:05.000 Did you win?

01:56:06.000 Oh, yeah.

01:56:06.000 Did you keep going?

01:56:07.000 No, and the guy never looked at the coin the guy I was gambling with in Houston.

01:56:11.000 What?

01:56:11.000 This is the Derby City Classic.

01:56:13.000 Yes.

01:56:13.000 This is a 60 Minutes piece that was just posted three days ago.

01:56:17.000 Interesting.

01:56:18.000 Wow!

01:56:19.000 What are the odds?

01:56:19.000 It's an interview with Shane Van Bowen.

01:56:21.000 Oh, right.

01:56:22.000 This is where Shane talks about it.

01:56:23.000 Look at that.

01:56:24.000 No smoking, no gambling.

01:56:25.000 But this is in this.

01:56:27.000 Shane talks about...

01:56:27.000 You know who he is, right?

01:56:28.000 Who what is?

01:56:29.000 The big guy that was shooting right there?

01:56:31.000 Right there?

01:56:31.000 No, who's that guy?

01:56:32.000 That's Jean-Rubert Blonde, the poker player.

01:56:36.000 He's a one pocket nut.

01:56:39.000 Big action guy.

01:56:42.000 I saw an interview with him where they talk about how he doesn't gamble.

01:56:50.000 Yeah, well, you know, he plays those matches that are, of course, being bet on, and, you know, he makes money from that, but, I mean, he's not going to go around trying to, you know, pick on a game or anything like that.

01:57:01.000 Yeah, when you're a five-time U.S. Open winner, like, good luck.

01:57:06.000 Well, you know, well, I mean, you give up the wrong game now.

01:57:10.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

01:57:10.000 You have to give up a crazy spot.

01:57:12.000 Yeah, I'd bet on you against him, but, you know, let me make the game.

01:57:15.000 Yeah, exactly, right?

01:57:17.000 But he, you know, directed that energy towards trying to be the best in the world and, you know, it's paid off pretty well for him.

01:57:24.000 Yeah.

01:57:25.000 It's always, to me, fascinating to watch a person who rises above all.

01:57:32.000 Like, what are they doing different?

01:57:34.000 Like, what's going on?

01:57:35.000 How are they doing this?

01:57:36.000 So much better than everybody else.

01:57:38.000 And, you know, with him, it's just the obsessive practice and just this fucking focus that he has.

01:57:44.000 Yeah, that's the one that, you know, I think any of us can practice.

01:57:48.000 And at times, I feel like his practice could be better.

01:57:53.000 And I don't mean it unfairly, meaning, like, get a little more out of it sometimes.

01:57:57.000 Like, I've seen them sit there and shoot a 900-mile-an-hour jacked-up stop shot for hours.

01:58:05.000 That's going to come up like once every year.

01:58:07.000 Right, the way it does.

01:58:09.000 I know, I know, I know.

01:58:10.000 There's a lot to get back on.

01:58:11.000 But the thing that I was getting at is he's just a unique individual with the focus.

01:58:16.000 Like when he gets those crazy eyes, when those eyes, the oxygen starts making them, oh my God.

01:58:21.000 I'm like, all right, we're home.

01:58:23.000 We're good.

01:58:25.000 Because if the ball's laid tough, no one's beating them.

01:58:27.000 You know, if both players get a tough layout, no one's beating them.

01:58:31.000 So when you are the coach of the Moscone Cup, is he the guy that you're most happy is in the clinch?

01:58:39.000 Yeah, I mean, I was talking about it earlier last night with my buddies, the ones you met, and, you know, the best thing for me coming to Moscone as far as a decision is hill-hill and do I got to pick Skyler or Shane to play that hill-hill match, you know?

01:58:53.000 Pretty good decision.

01:58:54.000 Yeah, just because, you know, you got to say Shane's probably the pick most of the time.

01:59:00.000 But, I mean, Skyler's one of those that may prove you different that week.

01:59:04.000 You know what I mean?

01:59:04.000 It may be like a no-brainer.

01:59:08.000 And the Moscone Cup is fascinating because they openly encourage cheering.

01:59:15.000 Is that what you call it?

01:59:16.000 It's so wild.

01:59:17.000 I'm joking, yeah.

01:59:18.000 Let's hear the volume on this.

01:59:25.000 Oh, that was when...

01:59:26.000 Yeah.

01:59:27.000 Yeah.

01:59:27.000 That's 2018 when we won after losing eight years in a row.

01:59:33.000 But...

01:59:33.000 So these...

01:59:34.000 I don't think that...

01:59:35.000 Crowds, like, how are they so much different for the Moscone Cup than they were?

01:59:39.000 Oh, they're singing and dancing.

01:59:41.000 Nationalistic.

01:59:42.000 Yeah, they're, you know...

01:59:42.000 USA versus Europe.

01:59:44.000 Oh, yeah.

01:59:44.000 It's big, you know.

01:59:46.000 I mean, all those countries...

01:59:48.000 They're big on that.

01:59:49.000 Soccer fans are just freaking crazy.

01:59:52.000 They're nasty at times.

01:59:54.000 Is that better?

01:59:55.000 Would that make it more exciting if people cheered in between shots but didn't do it at all while the guy's down on the ball?

02:00:02.000 Because it seems like they're good at that.

02:00:04.000 Well, they somewhat get almost settled, you know.

02:00:07.000 Occasionally you still have something peep out.

02:00:09.000 You're settled down.

02:00:10.000 Settle down to the referee.

02:00:12.000 Well, York Hall, the first place, it was a small venue, only 600 is when I started.

02:00:17.000 Now that one had like 3,000, I think, right on top of you.

02:00:20.000 You know what I mean?

02:00:20.000 Right on top of you.

02:00:22.000 You can feel everyone's energy.

02:00:23.000 But York Hall, they used to have like laser pointers, the crowd did, and they'd point at the nine ball while we were shooting.

02:00:30.000 I mean, they were ruthless.

02:00:31.000 Yeah, because they had two sessions, a noon and a six.

02:00:35.000 So they start drinking about 1130. Well, by the time the six o'clock come, there were fights every time.

02:00:40.000 I mean, it was unbelievable.

02:00:42.000 Yeah.

02:00:42.000 I mean, but amongst friends that came together, you know what I mean?

02:00:45.000 Like, those English are, ooh.

02:00:47.000 But it's so much different than any other pool tournament.

02:00:49.000 And one of the things I was thinking was, Jamie and I, Jamie showed me that golf tournament where they play in front of a giant audience.

02:00:57.000 In Phoenix, you mean?

02:00:59.000 Yeah.

02:00:59.000 I'm like, that's amazing!

02:01:01.000 Yeah.

02:01:02.000 Like, that's, what a great idea, where everybody's cheering and screaming.

02:01:05.000 Oh, yeah.

02:01:06.000 And maybe that's a thing that, like, with the Moscone Cup, If you had a high-stakes game like that, where people in the audience reacted like that, maybe that would get more people engaged.

02:01:20.000 Well, I think that, but the thing with the long ones, man, they just play too long races.

02:01:24.000 A race to 100?

02:01:25.000 I mean, come on, let's cut it up and do three out of five races, like nine or something.

02:01:30.000 You know, something that's going to keep your attraction.

02:01:32.000 You mean if people want to watch it?

02:01:34.000 Yeah, and you know, the big nine-mile tournaments now, you know, the ones I've been traveling for and working, The fans are getting like the Moscone every time they're getting closer and closer.

02:01:44.000 Really?

02:01:44.000 Yeah, real smart fans, real energetic.

02:01:47.000 I mean, going crazy, singing in between games.

02:01:50.000 Really?

02:01:50.000 Yeah, it's getting better, yeah.

02:01:52.000 Interesting.

02:01:52.000 So is that encouraged?

02:01:54.000 Heck yeah.

02:01:56.000 So you want people to be more engaged.

02:01:58.000 Of course, it was always very quiet.

02:02:00.000 Well, the thing is the players are loosening up a little more.

02:02:03.000 So, you know, the fans are going to follow what the players do.

02:02:06.000 They want to engage with the players.

02:02:07.000 Right.

02:02:08.000 So, like at the Moscone, you see Jason Shaw getting them going and whatnot, you know, and we get them going as well.

02:02:13.000 And that's starting to happen a little more on the regular tour now to where the players are starting to engage with the fans more.

02:02:20.000 Interesting.

02:02:21.000 Yeah.

02:02:22.000 Well, that might be a thing that helps a lot.

02:02:24.000 But it is nice to see all the streaming and Matchroom and the Predator series and all these different things that are happening.

02:02:31.000 So much pool, right?

02:02:32.000 So much pool.

02:02:33.000 It's all over the place.

02:02:34.000 And there's some dollars out now.

02:02:35.000 I mean, you know.

02:02:36.000 Yeah.

02:02:37.000 And even like the regional ones, right?

02:02:39.000 Like, Texas Open, it's not considered a pro-pro on the calendar tournament, but you know it's pro-quality, right?

02:02:46.000 The great players.

02:02:47.000 But I mean, this event has gone from 15,000 added, maybe 20 to like almost 50 now.

02:02:53.000 Wow.

02:02:54.000 Yeah, I mean, everything's going up.

02:02:56.000 That's great.

02:02:56.000 So it's good, yeah.

02:02:57.000 Makes it easier.

02:02:58.000 It's great for the game.

02:02:59.000 Heck yeah.

02:03:00.000 Yeah, I'm always trying to encourage more people to play it.

02:03:03.000 I just want it to be more popular.

02:03:05.000 Yeah.

02:03:06.000 Well, you fall serious into it pretty quick.

02:03:08.000 Once you get down on the ball, I can tell it comes pretty serious.

02:03:12.000 I just don't have enough time.

02:03:13.000 If I had more time, I could play better.

02:03:16.000 And I work out too much, and lifting weights is literally the enemy of pool.

02:03:22.000 Because your arm is not communicating with fine motor skills that well.

02:03:28.000 It stiffens everything up.

02:03:30.000 So it takes hours for me to get loosened up.

02:03:33.000 And then I have to stop.

02:03:34.000 A couple times I got broke.

02:03:36.000 Not broke, but I lost when I shouldn't have.

02:03:37.000 I went bowling.

02:03:39.000 And I didn't bowl hardly ever.

02:03:41.000 So I went bowling the night before.

02:03:43.000 I ended up playing the next day.

02:03:45.000 Just like three or four games of bowling.

02:03:48.000 A little 16-pound ball.

02:03:49.000 Ain't nothing to it.

02:03:50.000 But I couldn't draw my cue ball.

02:03:52.000 Oh, wow.

02:03:53.000 This little muscle right here, the one on top, it wouldn't keep going.

02:03:59.000 It would kind of swing and quit.

02:04:01.000 Swing and quit.

02:04:02.000 It was unbelievable.

02:04:04.000 And the same thing with darts, believe it or not.

02:04:06.000 You play darts for a bunch of...

02:04:08.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:04:09.000 Yeah, that makes sense.

02:04:10.000 It just messes up that little sensation you want.

02:04:14.000 Yeah.

02:04:15.000 Yeah, I always found the worst was curls.

02:04:17.000 When you did curls, you just couldn't play.

02:04:21.000 No feel.

02:04:22.000 Just nothing.

02:04:23.000 Just numb and stupid.

02:04:26.000 Willie Hoppy apparently wouldn't even drive his car when he had to play.

02:04:29.000 Willie Hoppy?

02:04:30.000 I wish I would have met him.

02:04:32.000 The ones say he was a character.

02:04:34.000 Of course, all the old guys were.

02:04:35.000 They had to be.

02:04:37.000 Fats was like, everyone loved him.

02:04:39.000 We read a statistic once that at the turn of the century, New York had something like 900 pool halls.

02:04:45.000 Wow.

02:04:45.000 See if that's true.

02:04:47.000 In 1900, I think in the 1900, New York had some absurd number of pool halls.

02:04:54.000 Wow.

02:04:55.000 Well, Houston had a ton of them whenever I played.

02:04:57.000 900 sounds nuts.

02:04:59.000 No, you're talking about the state of New York?

02:05:01.000 No, I mean the city of New York.

02:05:03.000 Wow.

02:05:04.000 That might not be true.

02:05:06.000 Yeah, because I think Houston had one of the most back in like the 90s.

02:05:09.000 This was in like the 1900s.

02:05:12.000 Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying.

02:05:13.000 This was like the early 1900s.

02:05:15.000 Well, Houston was so great because it was like going on the road yourself.

02:05:20.000 Every pool room had their own little champion.

02:05:22.000 Really?

02:05:23.000 Yeah, their own little pool nut guys, pool groupie kind of guys.

02:05:29.000 So you could go from pool hall to pool hall and really just play your heart out.

02:05:34.000 Do you miss those days of doing that?

02:05:36.000 Absolutely.

02:05:37.000 Absolutely, yeah.

02:05:38.000 Because I see it in your eyes when you talk about it.

02:05:41.000 Your eyes twinkle.

02:05:41.000 Yeah.

02:05:42.000 Okay, look at this.

02:05:43.000 Okay, I'm wrong.

02:05:45.000 117. That's still incredible.

02:05:46.000 Why did I think it was 900?

02:05:48.000 Because I exaggerate everything.

02:05:49.000 The game was legalized in 1904. By 1935, there was 117 pool halls in the city.

02:05:55.000 That is pretty nuts, though, still.

02:05:57.000 Well, it's amazing because during Prohibition that, you know, 117 pool halls in one city.

02:06:02.000 Well, you know they end up taking them out, right?

02:06:04.000 And that one thing that happened during Prohibition, I think, is anything to do with any kind of gaming that promoted in some areas.

02:06:11.000 I think New York was one of them.

02:06:12.000 Really?

02:06:13.000 Yeah, jukeboxes end up going away.

02:06:15.000 That's interesting.

02:06:16.000 I think pool tables end up going away until the end of Prohibition.

02:06:19.000 The number of licensed pool halls has grown to 169 from 140 in Los Angeles, where alcohol and food are permitted.

02:06:26.000 The number of licensed pool halls has grown from 169 to from 140 five years ago.

02:06:34.000 So they had 169 pool halls at what time?

02:06:38.000 This was 1987. Really?

02:06:40.000 Right after the color of money.

02:06:42.000 Right after the color of money.

02:06:43.000 That makes sense.

02:06:44.000 Yeah.

02:06:44.000 Wow.

02:06:45.000 11,000 in the last two years.

02:06:48.000 Manhattan has two pool halls to survive.

02:06:51.000 Wow.

02:06:51.000 Membership in the Iowa City-based Billiard Congress of America.

02:06:55.000 Okay, that's what it was.

02:06:56.000 Okay.

02:06:57.000 Interesting.

02:06:57.000 Yeah, there's pool rooms everywhere.

02:07:00.000 That's right after the movie.

02:07:02.000 Oh, look, the newer movies caused a maxi-resurgence in the game.

02:07:07.000 Wow.

02:07:10.000 Yeah, I mean, I remember watching it being fascinated.

02:07:13.000 That was before I was really playing.

02:07:14.000 Going, wow.

02:07:16.000 Yeah, I didn't watch it and then play.

02:07:18.000 I actually was, that was 86, I think it came out.

02:07:21.000 I think so.

02:07:22.000 Yeah, 86. I started in 88. So I played about three or four months before I got turned on to that movie.

02:07:28.000 And I was like, oh, okay.

02:07:30.000 Which, Paul Newman's my favorite anyways.

02:07:32.000 My favorite actor.

02:07:34.000 That was his first Oscar, you know that?

02:07:36.000 Executive Billiards, where I used to play, they had a VHS player.

02:07:40.000 And they played the Hustler all the time.

02:07:43.000 All the time.

02:07:43.000 To the point where everybody in the pool hall could say the words.

02:07:47.000 They knew it.

02:07:48.000 They knew every line.

02:07:50.000 Great movie.

02:07:51.000 It's a sad story, though.

02:07:53.000 Unbelievable.

02:07:54.000 It's a fucking bummer, man.

02:07:55.000 They made some bummer movies back then.

02:07:58.000 Yeah.

02:07:59.000 Well, big parts of it would be so sad.

02:08:01.000 You know, it had great highs, right?

02:08:03.000 I mean, like when he's beating Fats, but then you just know what's coming, and it's just from there, about the next hour of the movie, he's just like tearjerker.

02:08:11.000 Yeah.

02:08:13.000 Another thing that was amazing about that movie is how good Jackie Gleason played.

02:08:16.000 Oh, yeah.

02:08:17.000 Jackie Gleason could really play.

02:08:18.000 Oh, yeah.

02:08:19.000 The difference between watching a guy like Tom Cruise or watching a guy like Paul Newman.

02:08:24.000 Tom Cruise was better than Paul Newman, but...

02:08:26.000 Jackie Gleason looked like a real player.

02:08:29.000 Yeah, it wasn't painful to watch.

02:08:30.000 No.

02:08:30.000 Not at all.

02:08:31.000 It wasn't like lifting the cue up with every shot.

02:08:34.000 There's some scenes with Newman where you gotta reshoot that.

02:08:37.000 Don't do that.

02:08:37.000 Don't lift the cue up as you're shooting.

02:08:39.000 That's ridiculous.

02:08:40.000 Yeah, when he's breaking the balls in that one scene, I think it comes up.

02:08:43.000 Well, he shot a ball with follow and lifted the cue up at the same time.

02:08:47.000 Stay down.

02:08:49.000 Stay down.

02:08:50.000 Yeah.

02:08:51.000 Great actor, though, but all his shots were kind of like trick shots.

02:08:55.000 Yeah.

02:08:55.000 A little more, you know.

02:08:56.000 They looked okay.

02:08:57.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:08:58.000 It looked okay.

02:08:58.000 It wasn't offensive, you know?

02:09:01.000 No, no, no.

02:09:02.000 But Jackie Gleason looked like a player.

02:09:04.000 Oh, yeah.

02:09:04.000 The way he would stroke the ball, like, wow.

02:09:07.000 And you could see him making break shots.

02:09:09.000 Like, you see his whole body.

02:09:11.000 Oh, yeah, moving the cue ball and all that.

02:09:12.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:09:13.000 Well, they say he was a rack boy, I think, at one time as a kid and then just was a real character, like a pool hole kind of guy.

02:09:21.000 Makes sense.

02:09:22.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

02:09:24.000 All his roles he kind of played, not later in his years, but the Honeymooners and whatnot, seemed like the kind of guy that could fit in the pool hall pretty well.

02:09:33.000 Again, a lot of charisma.

02:09:35.000 It's just interesting that that one movie, which was like this massive movie where he plays a serious character, and it's not funny at all.

02:09:43.000 Oh, no.

02:09:44.000 You would never even imagine that that's the same guy from The Honeymooners.

02:09:47.000 I know.

02:09:48.000 You know?

02:09:48.000 Yeah, because he hardly ever smiles in the entire movie in The Hustler.

02:09:51.000 I don't know if he ever did.

02:09:52.000 Nope.

02:09:52.000 He's just a no-nonsense killer.

02:09:55.000 Yeah, and what was the...

02:09:56.000 God, he's one of my favorite actors, too.

02:09:58.000 The guy that played his steak horse.

02:10:00.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:10:02.000 He's great.

02:10:03.000 I'll think of it in a second.

02:10:04.000 God damn it.

02:10:05.000 I know.

02:10:06.000 It's on the tip of my tongue.

02:10:07.000 George C. Scott.

02:10:08.000 That's right.

02:10:08.000 My brother would be hot at me if I didn't remember that name.

02:10:11.000 Yeah.

02:10:11.000 Oh, my God.

02:10:12.000 He was phenomenal.

02:10:13.000 He was great.

02:10:13.000 And Piper Laurie.

02:10:14.000 Yeah.

02:10:14.000 She was phenomenal in that, too.

02:10:15.000 The whole movie.

02:10:16.000 Yeah.

02:10:16.000 It's an amazing movie.

02:10:17.000 It holds up, too.

02:10:18.000 It's one of those movies that really holds up.

02:10:20.000 You go back and watch it, and you go...

02:10:22.000 Man.

02:10:23.000 And then the style of film they did back there was more quiet.

02:10:26.000 There wasn't music playing at every moment that told you how to think.

02:10:29.000 You know, the movie played itself out.

02:10:32.000 Yeah, well, the scenes, the setting told you a ton about what was going on.

02:10:37.000 You know, like in the pool hall in Ames, I guess it was.

02:10:39.000 Was it Ames?

02:10:40.000 This is Ames, mister.

02:10:41.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:10:41.000 And it didn't take a whole lot of words to get the feeling of what, you know, everyone was about in the movie.

02:10:47.000 Which I thought they did pretty well at that in The Color of Money as well.

02:10:51.000 You know what I'm saying, for the most part?

02:10:53.000 Yeah, for the most part.

02:10:54.000 Because you could say not many had a lot of lines besides Tom, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio, I think is who it was, and Paul Newman.

02:11:04.000 Everyone else was just bits and pieces.

02:11:07.000 But it did capture the feeling that you get from that.

02:11:10.000 I wonder how many people became pool hustlers after The Hustler.

02:11:14.000 How many people saw that movie?

02:11:15.000 Because back then, they didn't have very many movies.

02:11:18.000 Oh, no.

02:11:18.000 Those were two of the biggest, right?

02:11:21.000 Yeah.

02:11:21.000 I wonder how many people.

02:11:23.000 That probably caused a resurgence in 1963 as well.

02:11:26.000 I would say so.

02:11:27.000 Yeah.

02:11:28.000 100%.

02:11:28.000 Yeah.

02:11:29.000 I think it did pretty well overall.

02:11:32.000 Oh, yeah.

02:11:32.000 It was a huge movie.

02:11:33.000 Did it win anything?

02:11:35.000 Who gives a shit about those things?

02:11:37.000 You know, like I was saying, I think The Color of Money is actually Paul Newman's first Oscar win.

02:11:43.000 Really?

02:11:44.000 Yeah.

02:11:44.000 He got nominated a few times but never actually won it.

02:11:48.000 At least I should check The Hustler first.

02:11:51.000 Right.

02:11:51.000 Yeah.

02:11:52.000 Yeah.

02:11:53.000 Best Cinematography, Best Art Direction, Best Actress, Best Picture, Best Adapted Screenplay.

02:11:59.000 Wow.

02:12:00.000 Won everything.

02:12:01.000 Yeah.

02:12:01.000 Jesus.

02:12:02.000 Holy shit.

02:12:03.000 Yeah, I wonder who won Best Actor that year besides Paul Newman.

02:12:06.000 Yeah, I think that was the thing about The Color of Money, like they had to give it to him because he hadn't won it yet.

02:12:10.000 Yeah, maybe.

02:12:11.000 He was good in it, though.

02:12:12.000 Oh, he's phenomenal in it.

02:12:13.000 Yeah, he was really good.

02:12:14.000 It's a great movie.

02:12:15.000 John Totoro is one of my favorites, too, by the way.

02:12:17.000 Yeah, but I just love movies that, you know, it's not offensive.

02:12:21.000 It, like, really does capture what it's like in these places.

02:12:26.000 Yeah.

02:12:26.000 Yeah, I mean, you know.

02:12:29.000 Let me correct that.

02:12:29.000 It was nominated for most of those I just said.

02:12:31.000 Oh!

02:12:32.000 Which ones did it win?

02:12:33.000 It won Art Direction Cinematography.

02:12:34.000 Oh.

02:12:35.000 Damn it.

02:12:36.000 Well, still a little bit of what we talked about, though.

02:12:38.000 Yeah.

02:12:38.000 For the most part.

02:12:39.000 Exactly.

02:12:39.000 Yeah.

02:12:40.000 Art Direction Cinematography were so important in that movie.

02:12:43.000 That place Ames, if that doesn't exist, someone needs to build it.

02:12:46.000 I think it did, though, right?

02:12:47.000 Did it exist?

02:12:48.000 I think it did.

02:12:48.000 Not anymore, but I think...

02:12:50.000 Probably they filmed in a pool hall.

02:12:51.000 They wouldn't set up a new pool hall.

02:12:53.000 No, I think it did.

02:12:54.000 In fact...

02:12:55.000 Maybe it's in another book or something to do with Poole, I think, and then it's quoted from that movie.

02:13:02.000 What was the name of the original place?

02:13:04.000 Do you know?

02:13:05.000 What was it really called?

02:13:06.000 McGurr's and Ames.

02:13:07.000 Yeah.

02:13:08.000 Two places that were defunct, it says.

02:13:11.000 They were defunct before?

02:13:13.000 Yes, and much of the action was filmed at now defunct Poole Hall, so I guess I don't know whenever they're writing now, if it was the time they were writing it or the time that they were shooting it.

02:13:22.000 It says McGur's and Ames Billiard Academy is where they shot it.

02:13:25.000 Yeah.

02:13:26.000 I think those are real places.

02:13:27.000 That's Color of Money or The Hustler?

02:13:28.000 The Hustler, yeah.

02:13:29.000 Interesting.

02:13:31.000 Yeah.

02:13:31.000 I think now the one that I didn't like in The Color of Money is whenever the two men and a stranger.

02:13:37.000 Oh, yeah.

02:13:38.000 That doesn't really happen.

02:13:41.000 You're trying to get someone in real trouble with something like that.

02:13:45.000 But a lot of that other stuff, though, yeah.

02:13:48.000 Kind of like I said earlier with Shamat, I just kind of wanted to see him play.

02:13:55.000 Because I knew it wasn't going to end up for 200. Even if we didn't play, that was just going to be it.

02:13:59.000 You know what I mean?

02:14:00.000 But it wasn't going to be any real action for 200. So let me just kind of evaluate him.

02:14:05.000 Yeah.

02:14:05.000 You can kind of see that in The Color of Money when he's figuring out the right way to do it, how Paul's teaching him.

02:14:11.000 And he's handing over small bankrolls, but then getting bigger bankrolls in return when he wins.

02:14:18.000 You know what I mean?

02:14:18.000 So that kind of stuff happened a lot, actually.

02:14:22.000 I love the Forrest Whitaker scene.

02:14:23.000 Oh, yeah.

02:14:24.000 Can I ask you a question?

02:14:26.000 Yeah.

02:14:26.000 Do you think I should lose weight?

02:14:28.000 Yeah.

02:14:29.000 That was a big dig, though.

02:14:31.000 Big dig.

02:14:33.000 But another good one, Forrest Whitaker.

02:14:35.000 He actually looked like he had a little stroke.

02:14:37.000 Yeah.

02:14:37.000 A little something.

02:14:38.000 Yeah.

02:14:38.000 Yeah, he could play a little.

02:14:39.000 Yeah.

02:14:40.000 There's quite a few out there that like the game.

02:14:43.000 Well, didn't Mike Siegel coach them?

02:14:45.000 Oh, I wouldn't doubt that.

02:14:46.000 I know he coached Tom Cruise.

02:14:48.000 Tom Cruise, yeah.

02:14:50.000 There were a few of them around.

02:14:51.000 A guy I worked with last night.

02:14:52.000 What do you got, Jamie?

02:14:53.000 Yeah, you're right.

02:14:53.000 I'm looking at it right now.

02:14:54.000 Oh, yeah.

02:14:55.000 Yeah, Larry Schwartz, a guy from Chicago.

02:14:56.000 You may have heard of him.

02:14:57.000 He worked on that, and it was in that movie as well.

02:15:00.000 I did commentary with him last night, as a matter of fact.

02:15:03.000 Well, my big fear is that the game will somehow or another slide away.

02:15:08.000 It doesn't seem like that's...

02:15:09.000 I was worried about that for a while.

02:15:10.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:15:11.000 But it doesn't seem like that's happening anymore.

02:15:13.000 Now there's an international resurgence.

02:15:16.000 Yeah, well, the amateur side, league pool, you know, there's so many, right?

02:15:19.000 And the consumer market's so good right now.

02:15:22.000 I think it's just going to go up and up.

02:15:24.000 Yeah, I hope so.

02:15:26.000 I think so, too.

02:15:27.000 And maybe a solid documentary in the Derby City or something.

02:15:30.000 There you go.

02:15:30.000 We've talked about doing stuff in here, about having challenge matches in here and streaming them.

02:15:35.000 Yeah.

02:15:35.000 And I would do commentary.

02:15:36.000 Hell yeah.

02:15:37.000 So, that's still on the table.

02:15:39.000 Yeah, there you go.

02:15:39.000 I just have to find some time.

02:15:41.000 Yeah, well, you know a commentator.

02:15:42.000 I do.

02:15:43.000 I know the best.

02:15:44.000 He's right here.

02:15:45.000 As long as it's pool.

02:15:46.000 Yeah, dude.

02:15:46.000 Pool, baseball.

02:15:47.000 I could do a little baseball, maybe a little golf.

02:15:49.000 That's about it.

02:15:50.000 Well, pool, you're the man.

02:15:51.000 Yeah, pool.

02:15:52.000 But thank you, Jeremy.

02:15:53.000 Thanks for being here.

02:15:54.000 I appreciate it.

02:15:54.000 It was a lot of fun.

02:15:55.000 Absolutely.

02:15:56.000 All right.

02:15:57.000 Let's go play some pool.

02:15:58.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - September 13, 2023

Joe Rogan Experience #2034 - Jeremy Jones

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