The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2036 - Kurt Angle

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:34.000 Pull that microphone up. 0.83

00:00:37.000 Close to you.

00:00:37.000 There you go.

00:00:38.000 What happened was I got thrown on my head the first round of the Olympic trials and I broke my neck and I didn't know it so I kept wrestling.

00:00:45.000 My arms were numb and my neck was in excruciating pain and I wrestled through the semis and won and then I had to go on to the finals and wrestle and I won there.

00:00:54.000 So I won the first round of the Olympic trials with my neck broken.

00:00:57.000 I went home the next day and I went to my doctor and he took an MRI on my neck.

00:01:01.000 He said, you have four discs or four broken vertebrae and two discs sticking directly in your spinal cord.

00:01:06.000 He said, you can't wrestle anymore.

00:01:07.000 You're done.

00:01:09.000 I was devastated, man.

00:01:10.000 I didn't know what to do.

00:01:11.000 I figured I better get a second opinion.

00:01:14.000 So I went to another doctor and he said basically the same thing, but he said, when is the next round of the trials?

00:01:20.000 I said, six weeks.

00:01:21.000 He said, you know what?

00:01:22.000 I might be able to get you ready by then.

00:01:23.000 I said, what's your plan?

00:01:25.000 He said, well, you're not going to be able to train much.

00:01:28.000 You're going to have to let your neck rest and heal for the next six weeks.

00:01:31.000 And it won't be completely healed.

00:01:32.000 But it'll be healed enough that you can still go.

00:01:34.000 And what I'm going to do is I'm going to have a doctor travel with you.

00:01:37.000 And this doctor's going to stick you with 12 shots of Novocain in your neck five minutes before each one of your matches.

00:01:43.000 He said, therefore you won't feel the pain, you'll forget your neck is broken, and you'll wrestle more freely.

00:01:49.000 But he said, I'm warning you, an hour after your matches are over, you're going to be in excruciating pain from the abuse your neck takes during those matches.

00:01:56.000 And he said, are you okay with this?

00:01:57.000 And I said, yes, and it worked.

00:01:59.000 Wow!

00:02:00.000 What a decision to make.

00:02:02.000 Yeah, I didn't have a choice.

00:02:04.000 I mean, there was no guarantee I was going to make the Olympic team in 2000 or 2004. This is my one time.

00:02:10.000 This is my one shot. 1.00

00:02:11.000 Imagine those guys you beat, realizing a guy with a fucking broken neck just kicked my ass. 1.00

00:02:17.000 I never thought about that. 1.00

00:02:20.000 Not only did he beat me, not only did he win, he won with a broken neck.

00:02:25.000 Amazing.

00:02:26.000 Yeah.

00:02:26.000 So I went to the Olympics and we did the same thing there.

00:02:29.000 Wow.

00:02:30.000 And I was able to get through it and that's when I retired and I retired for a few years and that was that. 0.98

00:02:36.000 Did it heal up a hundred percent or has it always been fucking with you since then? 0.96

00:02:40.000 I always had problems with it, you know, especially my motor skills and my hands. 0.97

00:02:47.000 I broke my neck four more times in the WWE and it got worse and worse.

00:02:52.000 I mean, I have nerve damage in my neck.

00:02:54.000 I don't have I lost three inches in both arms.

00:02:58.000 They atrophied because my neck was just so messed up.

00:03:02.000 And I've had five surgeries and none of them have really worked.

00:03:06.000 I'm going to end up having to have fusion, which will be down the line.

00:03:10.000 Have you done stem cells?

00:03:11.000 I tried.

00:03:12.000 It didn't work.

00:03:13.000 It didn't do it?

00:03:13.000 Where'd you go?

00:03:14.000 I went to South America.

00:03:18.000 I forget which...

00:03:20.000 Which country?

00:03:20.000 I can't remember.

00:03:21.000 Columbia.

00:03:22.000 Yeah.

00:03:22.000 Columbia, yeah.

00:03:23.000 Did you go to BioAccelerator?

00:03:24.000 Did you go to that place?

00:03:24.000 Yes, I did.

00:03:25.000 Yes, I did.

00:03:25.000 A lot of athletes, a lot of fighters go down there.

00:03:28.000 Yeah, it didn't work for me, unfortunately.

00:03:29.000 Really?

00:03:30.000 Just so much damage, huh?

00:03:31.000 Yeah, yeah, just too much.

00:03:33.000 I wonder if you just kept going.

00:03:36.000 So what's the extent of it now?

00:03:39.000 You know what?

00:03:40.000 I can't feel my pinky fingers.

00:03:43.000 You know, I have a lot of atrophy in my arms.

00:03:45.000 I don't have a lot of strength.

00:03:47.000 I can curl for like 20-pound dumbbells.

00:03:49.000 When I do triceps, I can only push the weights about 60 pounds forward.

00:03:56.000 It's just I don't have a lot of strength in my upper body.

00:03:59.000 And so the thing is, if you look at my chest right here, you'll see there's a dip here.

00:04:07.000 Yeah.

00:04:08.000 Okay, that's from my neck.

00:04:10.000 That's a nerve that died and no longer have this muscle in my chest.

00:04:14.000 I have a complete ripple through my chest.

00:04:16.000 It'll never come back.

00:04:18.000 And I'm afraid it's going to happen again, so I'm going to have to have fusion sooner than later, because if I don't, the damage is going to get worse and worse.

00:04:26.000 My arms are going to end up just shrinking to nothing.

00:04:28.000 Have you looked into replacement discs?

00:04:32.000 No, but you know what?

00:04:33.000 I just got an email from a doctor in New York and he told me he was doing it.

00:04:39.000 And so I'm going to call him in this next couple of weeks to see if we can set up an appointment.

00:04:45.000 Aljamain Sterling, the former UFC bantamweight champion, he injured his neck really badly and then got fouled in a title fight.

00:04:54.000 Actually, it was very controversial because Pyotr Jan, the Russian cat who hit him with a knee to the head while he was down, lost his title that way. 0.87

00:05:03.000 So he lost his title because even though Aljamain's a sensational fighter, Everybody was giving him shit because he won the title because of that.

00:05:11.000 So then he goes and gets a disc replaced in his neck, defends the title, and dominates Piotr Jan in the rematch. 0.78

00:05:17.000 Beats him in the rematch.

00:05:18.000 And then goes on to defend the title a couple more times, and then just lost it to Sugar Sean O'Malley.

00:05:24.000 He's got an artificial disc in his neck.

00:05:26.000 It worked extremely well for him.

00:05:27.000 It worked.

00:05:28.000 And he's good.

00:05:29.000 He's good to go now.

00:05:30.000 I need to look into that.

00:05:31.000 Titanium.

00:05:32.000 It's a titanium articulating disc.

00:05:34.000 So instead of fusing the disc, this titanium...

00:05:37.000 See if you can find it online, Jamie.

00:05:39.000 Articulating titanium disc replacement for spinal vertebrae.

00:05:44.000 Cervical, I think.

00:05:46.000 So Eddie Bravo has one in his lower back, too.

00:05:50.000 So they do lower backs, too.

00:05:52.000 Yeah, they do lower backs.

00:05:53.000 And what they do is, this is what it looks like.

00:05:55.000 So instead of fusing your discs, which the problem with fusing your vertebrae is you no longer have any movement.

00:06:03.000 With discs, it allows you to have movement. 0.97

00:06:06.000 And I think it lasts for a long fucking time. 0.97

00:06:10.000 You know, it's crazy. 0.98

00:06:11.000 I had a doctor when I broke my neck the second time.

00:06:14.000 He wanted me to do fusion.

00:06:16.000 And he told me that he's going to have to do three levels and that I'd have to retire.

00:06:21.000 And I was like, oh, that might not be an option.

00:06:23.000 It was the same doctor that Stone Cold Steve Austin had.

00:06:26.000 And Steve still has problems to this day with the fusion.

00:06:29.000 Everybody I know that had fusion has real problems.

00:06:32.000 Yeah, see, that's why I'm nervous about getting it.

00:06:34.000 And that's why I'm glad I found this doctor in New York City that can do it.

00:06:39.000 I didn't know there was a doctor out there that could do that kind of stuff.

00:06:44.000 I'll connect you to Al Jermaine.

00:06:45.000 We'll find out who he used, but his results are excellent.

00:06:49.000 He went on to defend the title.

00:06:52.000 He's a wrestler, so he got caught in neck cranks, guillotines, fought his way out of stuff with this artificial disc.

00:07:00.000 It's crazy that he's fighting with an artificial disc.

00:07:03.000 Fighting and winning against the best in the world. 0.99

00:07:05.000 That's ridiculous, man. 0.88

00:07:06.000 Incredible. 0.94

00:07:07.000 And it seems like that was a pretty quick turnover because that rematch, there wasn't too much space in between.

00:07:11.000 Yeah, it was pretty quick.

00:07:12.000 I mean, I think he was back fighting within eight months.

00:07:16.000 You know what?

00:07:17.000 I was told that when you have that done, you literally...

00:07:21.000 Or out of the hospital and you're working out like three days later.

00:07:24.000 Yeah.

00:07:25.000 It doesn't really rehabilitate you that much.

00:07:28.000 Yeah.

00:07:28.000 You're back to your normal life pretty quickly.

00:07:30.000 I think it might.

00:07:31.000 I mean, I don't want to say.

00:07:33.000 I'm obviously not a doctor.

00:07:34.000 I don't know if you knew that.

00:07:36.000 No.

00:07:37.000 I didn't.

00:07:38.000 I don't know what the best options are, but it's an option.

00:07:41.000 And I think it's probably a better option in some cases than fusion.

00:07:44.000 Oh, definitely.

00:07:46.000 Who wants metal in their neck? 0.99

00:07:48.000 You lose your mobility in your neck, yes.

00:07:51.000 Have you ever seen Yoel Romero run? 0.97

00:07:53.000 Yoel Romero got his neck fucked up in Cuba and they just fused the whole thing. 0.91

00:07:59.000 So his neck is like... 0.97

00:08:01.000 So when he runs...

00:08:03.000 See if you can find a video of Yoel Romero running.

00:08:06.000 His shoulders are up, huh?

00:08:07.000 He's, watch, watch, see, watch, look at him run.

00:08:10.000 Oh my gosh!

00:08:11.000 Yeah, so his neck doesn't move.

00:08:12.000 No mobility at all.

00:08:14.000 Zero mobility.

00:08:15.000 Wow.

00:08:15.000 And one of the best athletes that's ever competed in the UFC with a fused neck.

00:08:20.000 Oh, wow.

00:08:21.000 He, like, there's no flexibility there.

00:08:23.000 Yeah, there's no movement.

00:08:24.000 There's no movement.

00:08:25.000 So the movement is all absorbed in the lower spine and, you know, obviously has giant traps and, you know, huge muscles.

00:08:31.000 Would that give him spinal damage down the road?

00:08:34.000 I mean, who knows?

00:08:36.000 I don't know, you know?

00:08:38.000 But, you know, he had this done quite a while ago.

00:08:40.000 This was when he was competing as an amateur wrestler.

00:08:43.000 Wow, that's incredible.

00:08:44.000 Yeah, and went on and was one, I mean, fought for the title a couple times, was one of the best middleweights in the history of the UFC. He was an animal and just couldn't move his neck.

00:08:56.000 That's crazy.

00:08:57.000 You're fighting and you can't even turn your head.

00:08:59.000 Yeah.

00:09:00.000 The crazy thing is he could take a hell of a shot.

00:09:02.000 And I've always wondered if one of the reasons why he takes a hell of a shot is that his neck doesn't move.

00:09:07.000 It doesn't snap.

00:09:08.000 Like, it doesn't whip when he gets hit.

00:09:10.000 Yeah.

00:09:10.000 You know, we've talked about this on the podcast so many times, but just the physical abuse that wrestlers take, both amateur wrestlers and then maybe even more so in the pro wrestling game.

00:09:22.000 It's crazy.

00:09:23.000 You know what?

00:09:24.000 I've been injured a lot in amateur wrestling.

00:09:27.000 A lot.

00:09:27.000 But nothing compares to pro wrestling.

00:09:30.000 I have been so beaten up there.

00:09:32.000 I barely was ever 100% healthy.

00:09:35.000 I would tear a hamstring or a groin or whatever.

00:09:38.000 That'd be something small.

00:09:40.000 And, you know, it would rehabilitate me a little bit, but I was still able to work around it.

00:09:46.000 You learn as a pro wrestler how to work around injuries.

00:09:48.000 I actually wrestled Brock Lesnar in WrestleMania 19, the main event, with my neck broken.

00:09:54.000 I had to have surgery the following day.

00:09:57.000 Wow.

00:09:58.000 Yeah, so it's crazy. 0.98

00:10:01.000 The pro wrestling is just ridiculous. 0.85

00:10:03.000 You wrestle, you're on plywood. 0.73

00:10:06.000 There's a cloth above it, but it's literally hard like plywood.

00:10:11.000 You know, there's no spring under the ring or it's not a box spring or a bed.

00:10:16.000 It's plywood.

00:10:17.000 That's what you bump on.

00:10:18.000 That's crazy.

00:10:19.000 Why do they do it that way?

00:10:20.000 I don't know because it makes the sound.

00:10:22.000 It makes a loud sound.

00:10:23.000 That's why they don't care about the health of people.

00:10:26.000 They just care about the sound it makes.

00:10:28.000 When you're at one live, it doesn't really translate to TV as cool as it is live.

00:10:32.000 You hear that pop and they probably, I think they have microphones underneath and stuff that accelerate it through the speakers and like, boom, boom.

00:10:41.000 It's very, very exciting.

00:10:43.000 It's one of those things that's a thousand times better live.

00:10:46.000 Isn't there a way they can put a layer of wood and a layer of wood and then the foam so the wood slams into the wood but you feel the foam?

00:10:55.000 Well, if you do that, then they see your little feet pushing into the foam.

00:10:59.000 Oh, yeah.

00:11:00.000 How do you get a run on it?

00:11:01.000 Yeah, I guess.

00:11:03.000 They're like, that's a bed.

00:11:04.000 I mean, not a foam like a bed.

00:11:06.000 I mean, a foam like a wrestling mat.

00:11:08.000 Like something.

00:11:09.000 That might work.

00:11:10.000 It's not a bad idea.

00:11:12.000 Better for the athletes.

00:11:13.000 Definitely.

00:11:14.000 You know, like a tumble track or something.

00:11:16.000 Like something that has some give to it.

00:11:18.000 Well, hopefully WWE's listening.

00:11:21.000 Well, the UFC and the WWE are together now.

00:11:24.000 Yes, they are.

00:11:24.000 Which is very interesting.

00:11:26.000 Very interesting.

00:11:27.000 That's a gigantic corporation.

00:11:29.000 You think they're going to cross the road?

00:11:31.000 I don't know.

00:11:32.000 I think they're definitely going to cross-promote.

00:11:34.000 What I'm interested to see is obviously Brock was the most successful pro wrestler to ever compete in MMA. And CM Punk tried it.

00:11:42.000 I'm going to be interested to see how many other guys.

00:11:44.000 Bobby Lashley did it.

00:11:45.000 How many other guys are going to try it?

00:11:48.000 When I look at that partnership, I see a lot of fighters crossing over to wrestling, but I don't see many wrestlers crossing over to fighting.

00:11:56.000 I mean, that's a completely different beast.

00:11:58.000 I don't think there are many wrestlers that could go in there and mix it up with those guys. 0.97

00:12:03.000 Well, that's what's so sensational about Brock.

00:12:05.000 It is.

00:12:05.000 You know what?

00:12:06.000 He's adapted to everything in his life.

00:12:08.000 The kid is unbelievable.

00:12:10.000 For his size, he's 310 pounds, he's the best athlete I've ever been in a ring with.

00:12:15.000 I mean, he's explosive, he's quick, he's fast, he's strong as hell.

00:12:20.000 I actually did wrestle him one time for real.

00:12:26.000 The thing was, what happened was, when he came up from training from OVW, someone went up to him and asked him how he'd do against Kurt Angle. 0.99

00:12:35.000 He said, I kick his ass. 0.99

00:12:37.000 So, okay, they're stirring the pie, you know, they're getting shit rolling. 1.00

00:12:41.000 So the guy comes to me and says, hey, Brock said he could beat you in a wrestle match. 0.95

00:12:45.000 So I went up to Brock and I said, hey, let's get in the ring right now.

00:12:49.000 And he said, no, no, I have sandals on.

00:12:50.000 I said, let's take our shoes off.

00:12:52.000 I said, we'll go barefoot.

00:12:53.000 He said, no.

00:12:54.000 So I let it go for the week.

00:12:56.000 The following week, he was in the ring with Big Show, and they were wrestling for real, and Big Show was about 530 pounds at the time.

00:13:03.000 Brock was double-legging him, picking him up and slamming him. 0.98

00:13:05.000 I'm like, holy shit. 0.99

00:13:07.000 I don't know if I could beat this guy, right? 0.99

00:13:10.000 So Big Show was facing me.

00:13:12.000 He was on the other side of Brock, and Brock's back was to me, and I said, Big Show, get out.

00:13:16.000 He gets out and I sneak up behind Brock and I tap him on his shoulder and I go, it's time to go.

00:13:20.000 So we went.

00:13:21.000 And we went for about 15 minutes. 0.99

00:13:23.000 And, you know, the wrestlers tell you that I kicked his ass, that I dominated him. 0.99

00:13:27.000 That's not true. 0.99

00:13:27.000 I beat him, but I didn't beat him. 0.99

00:13:30.000 I took him down twice.

00:13:31.000 He didn't take me down at all.

00:13:33.000 I mean, it wasn't like a dominating performance.

00:13:36.000 I did beat him, but, you know, he's the real deal.

00:13:39.000 Oh, he's the real deal?

00:13:40.000 He really is, yeah.

00:13:41.000 You know what?

00:13:42.000 I'm surprised he didn't train for the Olympics.

00:13:43.000 I really am.

00:13:45.000 I wonder how he would have done.

00:13:47.000 I think he would have medaled.

00:13:48.000 That would have been amazing.

00:13:49.000 The athlete he is?

00:13:50.000 Yeah. 0.89

00:13:50.000 Oh, he's an insane athlete. 0.89

00:13:52.000 I'm sure you've seen his combine scores.

00:13:54.000 Oh yeah, yeah.

00:13:55.000 Crazy.

00:13:56.000 You know what?

00:13:56.000 He was the final cut for the Minnesota Vikings.

00:14:00.000 And they wanted him to go to NFL Europe for a year because they had it back then.

00:14:04.000 And Brock said, I don't want to travel.

00:14:06.000 And he said, I'll just do UFC. Like, you know, he's switching sport after sport.

00:14:10.000 Doesn't matter to him.

00:14:11.000 He knows he's going to be good at anything he does.

00:14:14.000 That's incredible.

00:14:15.000 You know, the video we've talked about this so many times, video of him doing that front flip and landing on his head.

00:14:20.000 Oh God, that was with me.

00:14:23.000 Yeah, WrestleMania 19. That's right, that was with you.

00:14:26.000 That video, that would have probably killed most people on earth.

00:14:29.000 I thought he broke his neck.

00:14:30.000 My neck was broken.

00:14:32.000 My neck was broken and Brock was supposed to win the title for me. 0.99

00:14:36.000 When he did this, I was like, oh shit, I'm going to have to pin him. 0.99

00:14:41.000 I mean, that is insane. 1.00

00:14:43.000 Right on his head.

00:14:43.000 On plywood.

00:14:44.000 So I go and cover him, and I'm like, please kick out.

00:14:48.000 Don't let me hold this title for another month.

00:14:51.000 And he kicks out.

00:14:53.000 And then I'm going to start talking to him here, and I'm going to say, Brock, are you okay?

00:14:57.000 And he's like, I don't know.

00:14:59.000 And I was like, Brock, are you okay?

00:15:01.000 He said, I think so.

00:15:03.000 And so I said, I'm going to pick you up.

00:15:05.000 I want you to give me the F5. Can you do it?

00:15:07.000 He said, I think so.

00:15:09.000 Right here.

00:15:09.000 Wow.

00:15:10.000 And you're grabbing his neck.

00:15:11.000 That's what's so crazy.

00:15:12.000 I know.

00:15:13.000 You're grabbing his neck, and he just landed on it.

00:15:15.000 You know what?

00:15:15.000 He didn't hurt his neck at all.

00:15:17.000 He got a concussion.

00:15:18.000 He got a concussion.

00:15:19.000 He didn't hurt his neck?

00:15:19.000 No.

00:15:20.000 No.

00:15:21.000 He doesn't have a neck.

00:15:22.000 That's so crazy!

00:15:24.000 It's so crazy that he came back from that.

00:15:26.000 Yeah.

00:15:27.000 So crazy that he came back from that.

00:15:30.000 And that was it.

00:15:31.000 I was relieved.

00:15:32.000 I got to drop the title and get my surgery the next day.

00:15:35.000 Wow.

00:15:36.000 I was supposed to win.

00:15:38.000 That wasn't supposed to happen.

00:15:40.000 They wanted me to have a nice long title reign, but I broke my neck.

00:15:43.000 Brock broke my neck the month before in a wrestling match.

00:15:46.000 And so I went to the doctor, and he said, you have to have surgery.

00:15:51.000 So I told Vince, I'm not going to wrestle WrestleMania.

00:15:55.000 And I wasn't going to do it, and I was going to have surgery right away.

00:15:59.000 And I went to my next-door neighbors, and this kid, he has Down syndrome, a really nice kid.

00:16:04.000 His name's Johnny.

00:16:05.000 And he said, Kurt, I heard you're not wrestling at WrestleMania.

00:16:08.000 And he gives me this magazine, it's DirecTV, and I'm on the cover with Brock.

00:16:12.000 He said, I really wish you would be able to wrestle.

00:16:14.000 And I thought, you know what?

00:16:16.000 I'm going to wrestle to lose a title to Brock on SmackDown.

00:16:19.000 That's what Vince wanted me to do.

00:16:21.000 He wanted Brock just to kick me in the gut, give me an F5, and beat me.

00:16:24.000 I said, I might as well just go to WrestleMania and tough it out. 0.99

00:16:28.000 Go ahead and do it with a broken neck.

00:16:31.000 Is it going to make it worse?

00:16:32.000 If it does, it does.

00:16:34.000 But back then, there were no liabilities.

00:16:36.000 Now you can't do that stuff.

00:16:38.000 There's no way the WWE is going to clear you to go out there with a broken neck and perform.

00:16:43.000 How did Brock break your neck the month before that?

00:16:46.000 I was on his back.

00:16:48.000 I had him in a chokehold.

00:16:50.000 I had him in a chokehold, and I was on his back, and he was on the other side of the ring.

00:16:54.000 He's really strong, and he could run really fast.

00:16:57.000 So I'm on his back, and he starts running to the other side of the ring, and he goes to turn, so I hit the turnbuckle.

00:17:05.000 Well, we only turned sideways, and my head whiplash really fast, and it snapped.

00:17:10.000 I heard it snap, and I couldn't feel my arm.

00:17:13.000 I couldn't raise my arm.

00:17:15.000 You could tell on the mats when you watch it.

00:17:17.000 My arm's down.

00:17:18.000 I couldn't raise it.

00:17:19.000 My neck was in pain.

00:17:20.000 I knew something was wrong.

00:17:23.000 The next day I went to the doctor and got the MRI and I broke my neck again.

00:17:29.000 So I decided that I was going to have the surgery and then I actually put it off until after Wrestlemania.

00:17:35.000 But what's crazy is, I broke my neck again.

00:17:38.000 Brock broke my neck again six months later.

00:17:41.000 He hit me over the head with a chair like this, straight over top.

00:17:45.000 You're supposed to bring it sideways so you don't have the pressure of your neck, you know, your head going down your neck.

00:17:50.000 So he hit me straight over and broke my neck again.

00:17:53.000 Five vertebrae I cracked.

00:17:55.000 And so I was out again for about—I had surgery again.

00:18:00.000 I was out for about three months.

00:18:02.000 I came back for WrestleMania, and I broke my neck again.

00:18:05.000 Oh, my God.

00:18:07.000 Okay, so I was rushing back before my neck was completely healed.

00:18:11.000 That's what happened.

00:18:12.000 I broke my neck four times in two and a half years in WWE. And what kind of surgery did they do?

00:18:17.000 A quick fix surgery.

00:18:19.000 It's called a lapindectomy.

00:18:21.000 They go in, they let the vertebrae heal.

00:18:23.000 That's why you wait a couple months, let it heal.

00:18:25.000 But they go in and they cut the disc.

00:18:27.000 Whatever's blocking the nerves or whatever's sticking in your spinal cord, they cut out part of the disc.

00:18:32.000 And they leave the rest in there.

00:18:34.000 So right now I have like a little bit of disc in like three different levels of my neck.

00:18:39.000 And they're fusing together right now because I don't have enough disc.

00:18:43.000 And that's why I need to get this rubber disc doctor.

00:18:46.000 Yeah.

00:18:46.000 I really do.

00:18:47.000 Well, I'll connect you to Aljamain.

00:18:48.000 Please do, man.

00:18:49.000 As quick as I can, as soon as we're done here.

00:18:51.000 I wish I'd known about it before.

00:18:53.000 It's such a dangerous area of your body to be injured.

00:18:57.000 It is.

00:18:58.000 It is.

00:18:58.000 It controls everything.

00:18:59.000 It controls your legs, too.

00:19:06.000 So right now, is it pushing against something right now?

00:19:09.000 Is that why you're getting the atrophy?

00:19:11.000 I have nerves that are being pinched.

00:19:14.000 And they're not being able to flow down my arms.

00:19:17.000 So, my fingers are freezing cold.

00:19:19.000 They're always cold.

00:19:20.000 I don't have any circulation.

00:19:22.000 My arms, I've lost, look, this shows you how much weight, how much mess I lost.

00:19:27.000 This is all extra skin because of where the size of my arms used to be.

00:19:32.000 And I'm just, I'm barely making it right now.

00:19:35.000 I literally, you know, my arms are 15 inches now.

00:19:38.000 They used to be 18, 19 inches.

00:19:40.000 Wow.

00:19:41.000 So, it's, you know, I'm struggling right now.

00:19:46.000 The sheer volume that you guys have to do in terms of the amount of shows, it's just such an insane workload on your body.

00:19:55.000 The punishment that you guys take, the fact that you do it.

00:19:58.000 How many nights a year were you wrestling?

00:20:01.000 Well, we were probably going 260, 270. I mean, there was a time in WWE where they were going 320. It was ridiculous.

00:20:12.000 They were going seven days a week and doing nine shows.

00:20:16.000 So they would do five Monday through Friday, and then they would do four in the weekend.

00:20:20.000 They'd do a double shot on the weekends.

00:20:22.000 That's how it was back in the 80s and 90s.

00:20:25.000 But then around 2000s when they changed it, they started having five shows a week.

00:20:30.000 So you had two days off.

00:20:31.000 Usually one day was a travel day, so you really had one day off.

00:20:35.000 Where you were home.

00:20:36.000 And on top of all that, at your level, those are longer matches.

00:20:39.000 You know, it's not even a normal thing.

00:20:42.000 You were doing that main event.

00:20:43.000 No, being on the main event level, yeah.

00:20:43.000 You're gonna have a lot longer matches, yeah.

00:20:45.000 Like those are 35 minutes or an hour or 50 minutes or 40 minutes of putting on the biggest show.

00:20:52.000 I know there was a time where people were talking to you about competing in MMA. Yes.

00:20:58.000 You know what?

00:20:59.000 I've got this story wrong so many times.

00:21:02.000 Dana and I have been on the opposite ends of the spectrum with this thing, but now I think I got it right.

00:21:08.000 There were things I would leave out, but Dana treated me really well.

00:21:13.000 I'm not gonna lie to you.

00:21:14.000 He offered me a couple of deals.

00:21:17.000 The thing is, the second time, the first time I won't even talk about it.

00:21:21.000 The second time, he wanted me to go on the show Ultimate Fighter with Kimbo Slice.

00:21:29.000 And I said, Dana, those guys don't get paid.

00:21:32.000 They're on that show for free.

00:21:34.000 I said, I need to get paid.

00:21:36.000 He said, well, I'll give you a substantial amount of money.

00:21:38.000 So he was going to pay me to be on the show.

00:21:40.000 But he said, if you win, you're going to get a six-fight deal.

00:21:43.000 And if you lose, I'll probably still give you a six-fight deal because I think you're going to be really good.

00:21:48.000 And he said, but I need you to take a physical.

00:21:51.000 I said, okay, let's take the physical.

00:21:53.000 Well, I took the physical and I didn't pass it.

00:21:56.000 So I'm glad I didn't because my neck and all this stuff...

00:22:01.000 I broke my neck five times up until this point when I went to see Dana.

00:22:05.000 And I couldn't do five push-ups.

00:22:07.000 And here I am, I want to fight with these world-class fighters...

00:22:11.000 And my neck is so messed up.

00:22:14.000 My arms, I can't do push-ups.

00:22:15.000 I can't do anything. 0.99

00:22:17.000 And I would have got my butt handed to me. 0.97

00:22:20.000 I might have ended up getting paralyzed, to be honest with you. 0.95

00:22:24.000 I was in no shape or condition to be able to compete with those guys.

00:22:29.000 And I was full on myself, and I'm glad I failed the physical.

00:22:33.000 Because I probably would have went through with it.

00:22:37.000 That's a different mentality.

00:22:38.000 That is a different mentality.

00:22:40.000 I mean, you want to talk about toughness?

00:22:42.000 The toughness of pro wrestlers, the mentality that you have to have to be able to do 260 plus nights a year, that's insane.

00:22:49.000 Yeah, you know what?

00:22:50.000 I wouldn't say you're a badass. 0.97

00:22:53.000 Well, you're a glutton for punishment. 0.99

00:22:55.000 You're abusing yourself. 0.98

00:22:57.000 That's what it is.

00:22:59.000 You're not beating up people.

00:23:01.000 You're beating yourself up.

00:23:02.000 That's what it is.

00:23:04.000 But you can do it over and over. 0.99

00:23:06.000 Just the fact that you knew you had a broken neck going into that match with Brock, who the fuck does that? 0.99

00:23:11.000 I don't know. 0.95

00:23:16.000 When you look back on it now, is there anything you would have changed?

00:23:21.000 Well...

00:23:22.000 Throughout my career, was there anything that I would change?

00:23:25.000 Well, we'll get into this topic, I guess.

00:23:29.000 After I broke my neck the second time, the first time in WWE, I was introduced to painkillers.

00:23:35.000 And when I started taking them, I really liked it.

00:23:40.000 I mean, it masked the pain.

00:23:43.000 I couldn't feel the pain.

00:23:44.000 It kind of gave me an energetic feel.

00:23:46.000 It didn't make me feel nauseous like it does a lot of people.

00:23:49.000 And I started taking them.

00:23:50.000 I was taking one every four to six hours, like I was told.

00:23:53.000 But after a while, you build a tolerance and one doesn't work anymore.

00:23:56.000 Then you have to take two, then two lead to four, four lead to eight.

00:23:59.000 Was this Oxycontins?

00:24:00.000 This was extra strength Vicodin.

00:24:02.000 Oxycontins are a lot more powerful than Vicodin.

00:24:05.000 But I was taking 65 extra strength Vicodin a day.

00:24:09.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:24:10.000 That's how out of control I got.

00:24:11.000 And I was hiding it from the company.

00:24:14.000 And, I mean, I was in serious trouble.

00:24:18.000 And does that even make you high at that point?

00:24:20.000 Does it just keep you from going into withdrawals?

00:24:23.000 It kept me from going through withdrawals, but there were times where I passed out.

00:24:28.000 I mean, the company knew.

00:24:30.000 Some of my friends knew.

00:24:32.000 You know, I'll give you an example.

00:24:34.000 I... There was one point.

00:24:37.000 This is how bad it got.

00:24:40.000 There was one point in my career where my brother called me.

00:24:46.000 I was at a house show, an un-televised show for WWE. It was the night before I was going to have the biggest match of my career with Brock Lesnar the next day.

00:24:54.000 It was an Iron Man match on SmackDown.

00:24:56.000 And my brother calls me and says, hey, your sister just out of a heroin overdose.

00:25:03.000 And it crushed me.

00:25:06.000 I mean, I was crying.

00:25:08.000 I was in such pain thinking about my sister, who was only 40 years old, dying from a heroin overdose.

00:25:14.000 And the thing is, I wasn't able to talk to her because I told her eight months prior, if she doesn't get clean, I'm not going to talk to you.

00:25:25.000 So I didn't talk to her for 8 months.

00:25:27.000 And then this happens.

00:25:30.000 So here I am, I'm in the hotel room, and I look at my pills. 1.00

00:25:36.000 I said, fuck it. 1.00

00:25:37.000 I took 20 of them, threw them in my mouth, chewed them up, and swallowed them. 1.00

00:25:41.000 I didn't wake up until 5 o'clock in the afternoon the next day.

00:25:44.000 And I had the biggest match of my career.

00:25:46.000 Oh my god.

00:25:46.000 That night.

00:25:47.000 So what time did you have to be to the arena and did you do it?

00:25:49.000 Well, we had to be there at 1, but I didn't get there until 5.30.

00:25:52.000 Right.

00:25:52.000 Yeah.

00:25:53.000 But, yeah, I ended up doing it.

00:25:55.000 The WLB was trying to call me the whole time.

00:25:58.000 They wanted to tell me that, hey, you can go home, plan a funeral for your sister, you don't have to do this match.

00:26:04.000 But I kept thinking, I know my sister will want me to.

00:26:08.000 And I knew that I wouldn't have to feel that pain of losing my sister, at least for that hour.

00:26:13.000 Yeah.

00:26:14.000 So I went ahead and did it.

00:26:16.000 And it was actually one of my best performances of my career, which is kind of crazy.

00:26:20.000 But that was a really rough time.

00:26:23.000 The painkillers are the one thing that I do regret I did in the company.

00:26:27.000 I wish I was never introduced to them.

00:26:29.000 But do you think you had to take them?

00:26:31.000 I mean, it sounds like you were in such excruciating pain all the time.

00:26:35.000 There were times I needed to take them and there were times I didn't.

00:26:38.000 But I was so far deep into it that I had to.

00:26:42.000 I mean, I'm not going to lie to you.

00:26:44.000 I would go to sleep at night.

00:26:45.000 I would have 15 pills sitting on the desk next to me for when I wake up because I knew I was going to have withdrawal when I got up.

00:26:52.000 I'd wake up sweating, shaking, and I'd grab those, throw them in my mouth, chew them up, and swallow them.

00:26:57.000 Fifteen at a time.

00:27:02.000 Most people at 15 at a time will kill you. 0.98

00:27:04.000 Well, they killed me.

00:27:06.000 I took 20 at one time when my sister died.

00:27:10.000 I've been really lucky.

00:27:11.000 I've been blessed.

00:27:12.000 Honestly, I don't think I should be here today.

00:27:14.000 How'd you get off of them?

00:27:16.000 Okay.

00:27:17.000 Well, what happened was I left the WWE because they wanted me to go to rehab.

00:27:21.000 I didn't want to go.

00:27:22.000 So I ended up going to another company called Impact Wrestling.

00:27:25.000 And I got my painkiller problem under control there because I found a doctor that got me...

00:27:30.000 On MS-Contin, there are two morphine pills.

00:27:36.000 They're very tiny, but they'll keep you from going through withdrawal.

00:27:39.000 So I would take one in the morning, one at night, and no more painkillers.

00:27:43.000 They were painkillers because they were morphine, but they were high dose.

00:27:46.000 It was just two of them that I had to take.

00:27:48.000 Well, I started having anxiety about breaking my neck over and over again, so they put me on Xanax.

00:27:54.000 So now I'm taking Xanax.

00:27:55.000 And then I switched to TNA, Impact Wrestling, and everybody drank there, so I started drinking alcohol.

00:28:02.000 So I'm mixing and having these cocktails, and I'm so out of control that I'm driving from town to town, drinking a 12-pack of beer, and I got four DUIs in five years.

00:28:15.000 I lost my reputation, everything I worked for.

00:28:17.000 I was at the lowest point in my life.

00:28:20.000 And I remember calling my wife from jail after my fourth DUI and she said, listen, I can't do this anymore.

00:28:25.000 You either go to rehab or I'm taking the kids and I'm leaving.

00:28:28.000 So I went to rehab because I didn't want to lose my wife and my kids.

00:28:32.000 And I was scared in rehab.

00:28:33.000 I literally thought...

00:28:35.000 I was so nervous.

00:28:36.000 First of all, the withdrawal was the worst experience I ever had.

00:28:39.000 I'll never go through that again because I'm never going to take another painkiller.

00:28:43.000 That was the worst thing I've ever done.

00:28:45.000 Or drink another drop of alcohol.

00:28:47.000 That was the absolute worst thing I've ever been through.

00:28:50.000 And I forget what I was going to say, though.

00:28:54.000 So with the rehab, how do they get you off of it?

00:28:57.000 They don't do it cold turkey, right?

00:29:00.000 Do they?

00:29:01.000 Yes, they do.

00:29:02.000 I thought they were going to wee me off.

00:29:04.000 They put you in a room and let you sleep, and they check on you every couple hours.

00:29:09.000 How many days?

00:29:10.000 About six days for me to go through the withdrawal symptoms.

00:29:13.000 It seemed like forever.

00:29:15.000 Six days, you just in a room by yourself.

00:29:18.000 Just thinking.

00:29:20.000 And you know what?

00:29:21.000 You want to stay in there.

00:29:23.000 And they start forcing you out.

00:29:25.000 You've got to come move around.

00:29:26.000 You've got to come out and talk to people.

00:29:28.000 You've got to live your life.

00:29:30.000 And you're so exhausted.

00:29:33.000 For the first two and a half weeks, I didn't want to move.

00:29:35.000 I just wanted to stay in my bed.

00:29:37.000 But they were forcing me to get out of bed and conversating with people and trying to go and eat and go to meetings and do all that stuff you do in rehab.

00:29:48.000 So it was really tough.

00:29:51.000 How long did it take before you felt normal?

00:29:55.000 Well, I would say two weeks where I really felt normal. 0.85

00:29:59.000 But the thing is, the last two weeks, because I spent a month in rehab, the last two weeks I was so nervous that I was going to fuck up again. 0.80

00:30:08.000 I literally didn't want to leave rehab. 0.92

00:30:10.000 I was scared that I was going to go back to it right when I got out.

00:30:14.000 So many guys do.

00:30:15.000 It's so crazy.

00:30:16.000 That's why.

00:30:16.000 I hear all these stories and I'm like, oh, it's going to happen to you too, man.

00:30:20.000 But the one thing that I kept going across in my mind was going through a draw.

00:30:27.000 I don't want to do that again.

00:30:29.000 And I know if I start taking them, I'm going to have to experience that again, and I don't want to.

00:30:33.000 It was that bad?

00:30:34.000 It was that bad.

00:30:35.000 What is it like?

00:30:35.000 What is the withdrawal feeling?

00:30:36.000 Okay, you're sweating because you're hot and you're cold at the same time. 0.89

00:30:40.000 You're shitting your pants. 0.90

00:30:42.000 You're throwing up. 0.99

00:30:44.000 You can't think straight.

00:30:46.000 Your body's shaking.

00:30:48.000 You're getting hot sweats, cold sweats.

00:30:52.000 You feel like you don't have anything inside of you.

00:30:54.000 No insides, no organs, nothing.

00:30:56.000 You feel like you're hollow.

00:30:58.000 It's just the craziest thing.

00:31:00.000 It's the most painful thing I've ever gone through.

00:31:02.000 And, you know, I'm sure people have been in a lot more pain than that with certain things they've had done to themselves.

00:31:08.000 But for me, that was the worst.

00:31:11.000 What's crazy is when you think about how mentally strong you are, how difficult it is for you to go through that.

00:31:17.000 Now, think of the average person.

00:31:19.000 You know, have you seen that painkiller show on Netflix?

00:31:22.000 I watched some of it, yeah. 1.00

00:31:24.000 Fucking what they did to this country is so crazy. 0.99

00:31:28.000 Oh, I know. 1.00

00:31:29.000 They're advertising it.

00:31:31.000 Hey, this is the best drug since whatever and, you know, this will keep you, you know, keep you moving every day and give you a healthy lifestyle.

00:31:39.000 Meanwhile, they didn't tell you that they're opiates and they're addictive and that they could kill you.

00:31:44.000 Yeah.

00:31:44.000 The one to start and the one to stay with.

00:31:47.000 What was the slogan that they used, Jamie?

00:31:49.000 Do you remember?

00:31:50.000 We talked to Peter Burke, who made that show, and he obviously had to do a lot of research on the Sackler family and what they did and how they engineered this and how they knew that People weren't just taking painkillers back then.

00:32:04.000 It wasn't a normal thing.

00:32:05.000 When I was a kid, for someone to take heroin was crazy.

00:32:11.000 When you found out someone was taking heroin, you're like, Jesus Christ, Mike's taking heroin?

00:32:15.000 But when those pills came around, because it was prescribed by a doctor, everybody's like, it's fine.

00:32:21.000 It's okay.

00:32:22.000 I thought it was too.

00:32:24.000 This is legal.

00:32:25.000 My doctor's giving it to me.

00:32:27.000 This is what I need.

00:32:28.000 But I knew after I started taking more than four and I was taking five, six, seven, eight, I knew I wasn't doing the right thing.

00:32:36.000 I knew that I was...

00:32:37.000 Going against what the doctors wanted.

00:32:39.000 You know what I would do?

00:32:41.000 I literally had 12 doctors that I was calling.

00:32:46.000 And I had 12 different pharmacies because you can't go to the same pharmacy twice in one month.

00:32:51.000 And I had a Mexican Contact where I got them illegally. 1.00

00:32:56.000 So I was getting about 2,700 pills a month.

00:33:00.000 Oh my God!

00:33:02.000 And you know what?

00:33:04.000 That's all you think about.

00:33:05.000 That's all you think about is how you're going to get your drug the next time.

00:33:08.000 So I have this calendar and every day it tells me which doctor to contact or contact your Mexican contact down in Mexico.

00:33:17.000 So I have all these things set up so that I can get what I need.

00:33:20.000 And it takes over your life.

00:33:23.000 You're no longer living your life.

00:33:25.000 Your marriage, you're not worried about your marriage, your kids, your job, nothing.

00:33:30.000 You're just worried about how you're going to get the drugs. 0.58

00:33:37.000 So crazy.

00:33:38.000 And it's so crazy that this didn't exist.

00:33:41.000 This didn't exist in America until, what, a couple decades ago?

00:33:45.000 Yeah.

00:33:45.000 When it started?

00:33:46.000 Yeah.

00:33:47.000 Now, who's the people that...

00:33:49.000 The Sackler family.

00:33:50.000 Okay.

00:33:50.000 Are they affiliated with Purdue?

00:33:52.000 Yes.

00:33:53.000 Purdue Pharma.

00:33:54.000 Yeah.

00:33:54.000 Okay.

00:33:55.000 Yeah, the story from the documentary is sensational.

00:33:58.000 The series on Netflix is sensational. 0.99

00:34:00.000 It just shows how fucking evil, evil those people were. 0.96

00:34:05.000 Well, I wonder if they actually knew the dangers that were involved when they first started. 0.99

00:34:10.000 It seems like they knew.

00:34:11.000 They did?

00:34:11.000 It seems like they knew a lot.

00:34:13.000 They absolutely knew it was addictive.

00:34:15.000 That's why the FDA wouldn't approve it.

00:34:17.000 And then they took this guy, there was one guy from the FDA that approved it.

00:34:22.000 And this guy would not approve it.

00:34:24.000 He was like, this is heroin.

00:34:25.000 Like, I'm not gonna approve this. 0.99

00:34:26.000 And then they took this guy and they took him to a fucking hotel and they had him in a hotel for two days. 0.98

00:34:31.000 I don't know what they did. 0.99

00:34:32.000 Like, no one knows what they did in this hotel for two days.

00:34:36.000 But after the two days, he came out and instead of saying it's non-addictive, For the first time ever, they said, it is believed to not be addictive.

00:34:49.000 Wow, they said the opposite.

00:34:50.000 Somebody said it.

00:34:51.000 Somebody believes it.

00:34:52.000 Do you believe it?

00:34:53.000 Yeah, I don't think it's addictive.

00:34:54.000 Okay, it's believed to not be addictive.

00:34:56.000 I mean, to use that sort of terminology, you just need one person or someone.

00:35:01.000 Yeah, just approval for one person.

00:35:03.000 For one of the most dangerous drugs that this country's ever experienced.

00:35:06.000 It is the most dangerous drug, yeah.

00:35:08.000 Look at the amount of people that have died from it.

00:35:11.000 The opiate overdoses in America are somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 a year. 0.96

00:35:16.000 That's ridiculous. 0.93

00:35:16.000 Which is so crazy. 0.93

00:35:18.000 So in 10 years, a million people die from this stuff.

00:35:20.000 And who knows how many people committed suicide, how many people died from car accidents, how many lives and families were wrecked.

00:35:27.000 Yeah, the PECO is being affiliated with that, too.

00:35:30.000 Yeah, so many.

00:35:33.000 And it's just insane.

00:35:35.000 It's insane how much power money has.

00:35:39.000 And that a pharmaceutical company could influence people in that way.

00:35:44.000 And in this documentary they show, in the docu-series, they show how they did it.

00:35:49.000 And it's scary because a lot of those doctors, you know, when they're younger or whatever, they're like, I want to help people.

00:35:53.000 I want to make people feel better.

00:35:55.000 I want to help humans.

00:35:57.000 And then they're in the business a little bit and they realize, well, if you want a vacation or if you want a yacht, if you want this, you got to play the game.

00:36:05.000 Yep.

00:36:05.000 Also, you have liability insurance.

00:36:07.000 You also have medical school bills.

00:36:10.000 You have, you know, the cost of running your business.

00:36:13.000 It becomes like the stock market.

00:36:16.000 It becomes like anything else where you're just thinking about numbers.

00:36:18.000 You're not thinking about people.

00:36:19.000 It's not your responsibility. 0.90

00:36:21.000 And the crazy thing is then they would shame the people when there was a strategy they had to say, oh, you're a drug addict.

00:36:31.000 It's not the pills are the problem. 0.91

00:36:32.000 You're a drug addict. 1.00

00:36:34.000 You're an addict. 1.00

00:36:35.000 And the people are like, oh, I'm a drug addict. 0.99

00:36:38.000 No, they turn you into one. 1.00

00:36:40.000 Everybody's a drug addict if you give them 20 fucking pills a day. 1.00

00:36:43.000 Right. 1.00

00:36:43.000 They all become drugs. 1.00

00:36:44.000 Every human being.

00:36:46.000 Every human being, if you give them OxyContin all day, they will become that.

00:36:51.000 Everybody has the ability to be addicted.

00:36:53.000 Oh, yeah.

00:36:54.000 I believe that.

00:36:54.000 Everyone.

00:36:55.000 I think everyone.

00:36:56.000 I had a wisdom tooth taken out like a decade ago.

00:36:58.000 And this doctor was so nice.

00:37:00.000 He was like a cool, smart guy.

00:37:02.000 And he's like, I'm going to send you home with these 12 Vicodin or whatever they were.

00:37:07.000 And if you feel pain, take one or two of them.

00:37:10.000 You'll be great.

00:37:11.000 And I started to feel pain like four, six hours after.

00:37:14.000 I remember it was the day that the WWE Network came out.

00:37:17.000 Because I got it.

00:37:18.000 I'm like, this will be fun to watch.

00:37:20.000 Catch up on old stuff.

00:37:21.000 Which it was.

00:37:21.000 It was amazing when that debuted.

00:37:23.000 But anyway.

00:37:23.000 So I have that on.

00:37:25.000 Pain starts kicking in.

00:37:26.000 And I take a half of one.

00:37:28.000 Just a half.

00:37:30.000 And 20 minutes later, I just start sweating and smiling like a super villain.

00:37:36.000 I mean, I could not take the smile off of my face.

00:37:39.000 I was just in glory.

00:37:42.000 And immediately, I'm like, this is bad.

00:37:46.000 And even though I had never been happier, like my body was just, it was like just an overall orgasm for the entire life.

00:37:55.000 You see your fingertips are sweating with excitement and I went and I flushed those other whatever nine and a half or eleven and a half pills down the toilet.

00:38:04.000 I knew immediately.

00:38:06.000 I'm like this is trouble.

00:38:09.000 Good for you.

00:38:10.000 I mean, even if I would have taken the whole one, I probably would have been... 0.98

00:38:14.000 I could have changed my fucking entire life right then and there. 0.99

00:38:18.000 Easy. 1.00

00:38:18.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:38:19.000 Well, they weren't around when I got my first knee surgery, but when I got my first knee surgery when I was in the hospital, they had me on a morphine drip, and I remember lying in that hospital bed feeling so good.

00:38:29.000 I was like, this is amazing.

00:38:32.000 And I had an ACL reconstruction where they did the patella tendon graph, right?

00:38:37.000 So, you know, they cut your knee open, they take a slice of your patella tendon, and then they screw it in where your ACL used to be.

00:38:43.000 And then they have you on this constant motion machine while you're in the hospital bed.

00:38:46.000 So this thing is extending your knee and closing it out.

00:38:50.000 And then you had a button, and you hit the button and the morphine drips.

00:38:53.000 And I'm just lying in bed.

00:38:54.000 I should have been in agony.

00:38:56.000 And I'm like, wee!

00:38:57.000 But wait a minute.

00:38:58.000 There had to be a limitation to what you could do.

00:39:00.000 Yeah, imagine.

00:39:01.000 I don't know.

00:39:02.000 I mean, we're talking 1993. I don't know.

00:39:05.000 Oh, there might not have been.

00:39:06.000 That was my first one.

00:39:09.000 And my second one, my second knee surgery I got was in 2000, my second ACL reconstruction I got was in 2003, I think.

00:39:18.000 Maybe four.

00:39:19.000 And that time, I didn't take anything. 0.99

00:39:21.000 I was like, I'm not taking shit. 0.94

00:39:22.000 Because I don't like the way those things make me feel. 0.98

00:39:25.000 I don't like it, and I'm scared.

00:39:27.000 I like it too much.

00:39:29.000 I had friends in high school that were addicted to drugs.

00:39:33.000 Before I was 30 years old, all I did was drink.

00:39:35.000 I would occasionally have...

00:39:38.000 I'd smoked pot maybe like six times until I was like 30 years old.

00:39:42.000 And then when I had surgery, I was like, I just associated pain pills and that stuff with your life falling apart.

00:39:51.000 Luckily.

00:39:52.000 Because I know how good it was.

00:39:54.000 Peter Berg was talking about that.

00:39:55.000 He took one recreationally and he's like, this is amazing.

00:39:58.000 Amazing.

00:39:59.000 He's like, oh my god, I can never do that again. 0.99

00:40:01.000 Because it's fucking, because it's just too good. 0.99

00:40:04.000 It's too good. 1.00

00:40:05.000 And that's the problem. 1.00

00:40:06.000 Too many people that get hooked on that stuff, the problem is their life is shit because they've been a drug addict. 0.99

00:40:12.000 And then they get off of it, and so they're super depressed because their life is terrible because they wrecked their life. 0.99

00:40:17.000 And the only thing that makes them feel good is the drugs.

00:40:20.000 You're absolutely right.

00:40:21.000 And no one can tell you any different.

00:40:23.000 No one can fix you.

00:40:24.000 You gotta kinda do it yourself.

00:40:26.000 Your family can tell you.

00:40:27.000 You gotta stop doing drugs.

00:40:28.000 You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:29.000 And then you go buy some and...

00:40:30.000 It's all you.

00:40:31.000 Yeah.

00:40:31.000 And it's wild.

00:40:32.000 It only takes one charismatic, smart, sounding, seeming doctor.

00:40:38.000 Because I've always avoided drugs as well.

00:40:42.000 And, uh...

00:40:43.000 And it was just one orthodontist that's like, yeah, no problem whatsoever.

00:40:48.000 Just take one of these.

00:40:50.000 You have no worries.

00:40:52.000 No problems.

00:40:53.000 They'll give them to you even if you're not in pain.

00:40:55.000 That's what's crazy.

00:40:56.000 I had a nose operation.

00:40:58.000 I had a deviated septum fix, and my doctor prescribed me two different kinds of painkillers.

00:41:02.000 And I was like, I'm not in pain.

00:41:04.000 And he's like, but you might be.

00:41:05.000 I'm like, Jesus Christ.

00:41:07.000 I'm like, I'm not feeling this.

00:41:09.000 He's pushing them on you.

00:41:10.000 Yeah, he was pushing them on me.

00:41:11.000 He was telling me to take them.

00:41:12.000 These guys want to be one of the 12 doctors on a list to get their kickbacks.

00:41:17.000 If you're supposed to, like, those numbers, you've got to keep those numbers coming in.

00:41:20.000 They'll come to you.

00:41:21.000 Hey, buddy, what's going on?

00:41:23.000 So they actually do get paid?

00:41:25.000 Oh, yes.

00:41:25.000 Wow.

00:41:26.000 Yeah, there's some sort of kickbacks.

00:41:28.000 And there's also bribes.

00:41:30.000 And the bribes are in the form of vacations and dinners.

00:41:33.000 And my wife's nurse, my wife's mother, rather, was a nurse. 0.68

00:41:36.000 And she would say that the pharmaceutical reps would come to the clinic, to the hospital, and they would, like, take everybody to dinner.

00:41:45.000 Come on.

00:41:47.000 We're going to take you to dinner.

00:41:48.000 They'd take them out to these nice steak dinners.

00:41:50.000 And everybody would eat whatever you want.

00:41:51.000 A nice bottle of wine.

00:41:53.000 And so, like, they were on the side of these pharmaceutical drug companies.

00:41:57.000 So when the patients would say, hey, what do you think about this stuff?

00:41:59.000 They were like, oh, you should take it.

00:42:01.000 It's very good.

00:42:02.000 It's a good company.

00:42:03.000 You know, so it's just you build loyalty with these people.

00:42:07.000 You know, Brigham, from ways to well.

00:42:09.000 Brigham started off his career.

00:42:10.000 He's a good buddy of ours who now owns a stem cell clinic.

00:42:13.000 And, you know, now he's into wellness and prescribes peptides.

00:42:16.000 Is he in the United States?

00:42:17.000 Yes.

00:42:18.000 He's in Austin.

00:42:19.000 Okay.

00:42:20.000 And, you know, back then, when he was a pharmaceutical drug rep, it was all about relationships with the people.

00:42:27.000 Like, you would go to the kids' games, you would know all these people, you would know all the doctors and nurses, you had to be on a first name, but you were their friend!

00:42:38.000 And so the more they liked you, the more likely they were to prescribe your drugs, the more they would give it out to people.

00:42:44.000 They were building trust.

00:42:45.000 Building trust.

00:42:46.000 And in Painkiller, in the documentary, the Netflix series, they hire these really hot young girls that were the representatives that would go to the doctors and sell this stuff and bring the brochures and they had a little spiel that they would sell. 0.97

00:43:01.000 It's crazy.

00:43:02.000 It's crazy what they did.

00:43:03.000 I mean, they followed the law.

00:43:04.000 Look, if you want to be an evil sociopath, it's really that the way they did it was that's the way to do it.

00:43:09.000 And it's the most effective way to make a lot of money. 0.50

00:43:11.000 They made billions.

00:43:13.000 And you know what?

00:43:14.000 They didn't break the law, I guess.

00:43:16.000 Sort of, kind of.

00:43:17.000 But what's interesting now is because of the Netflix series, they were going to sign some sort of a deal where they give $6 billion and they were going to have immunity to prosecution.

00:43:27.000 And a judge looked at it after the series and went, hold on.

00:43:31.000 We're not signing off on this. 0.99

00:43:32.000 We need to find out what the fuck is going on. 0.96

00:43:34.000 What did you guys do? 0.99

00:43:35.000 What did you do to the world?

00:43:37.000 What did you do to the country?

00:43:39.000 So are they looking for more?

00:43:40.000 More money?

00:43:41.000 Well, they're not just looking for more money.

00:43:43.000 They're now talking about criminal prosecution.

00:43:45.000 I don't know what's going to happen.

00:43:47.000 I mean, it's like you would like people to be held responsible for it, but...

00:43:53.000 Unfortunately, they have so much money they can pay the lawmakers, they can pay the Congress, they can do anything.

00:43:58.000 It's very weird.

00:43:59.000 It's very weird that they allowed them to...

00:44:01.000 I mean, it's evil.

00:44:02.000 It's really evil.

00:44:03.000 They ruined the lives of untold millions of people.

00:44:06.000 I don't know if I could ever do something like that.

00:44:08.000 Of course you couldn't.

00:44:09.000 Come up with something that I know people are going to get addicted to and lie to them.

00:44:15.000 I think it's one of those things where you become accustomed to it because everyone like you is doing it and it becomes part of what you do.

00:44:24.000 You know, I think it's just people adapt to whatever environment they're in.

00:44:28.000 And if your environment is in getting pills to people, that's your job.

00:44:32.000 Your job is to get pills to people.

00:44:35.000 The pharmaceutical drug reps, they come to you.

00:44:37.000 That's all they're thinking of is how I get my pills to these people.

00:44:41.000 That's what your job is.

00:44:42.000 Your job is to do that.

00:44:43.000 Your job is not to help these people.

00:44:45.000 There was one doctor in the series that was an ethical doctor that kicked the lady out of his clinic. 0.99

00:44:50.000 He's like, get the fuck out of here. 1.00

00:44:51.000 You're selling heroin. 0.99

00:44:52.000 It's an interesting scene because that's rare.

00:44:56.000 Because most doctors are rule followers.

00:44:58.000 You've got to think, most doctors, they go to college, they get their medical degree, they go to medical school, they do the residency.

00:45:05.000 Everything is by the book.

00:45:06.000 You've got to do what they say to do.

00:45:08.000 And then you're working for a hospital, which...

00:45:11.000 This is how naive I was.

00:45:13.000 I didn't even know that most hospitals are privately owned.

00:45:16.000 Like, I didn't know that there were for-profit businesses to try to push medicine on people.

00:45:21.000 I thought, they're just here to help you.

00:45:23.000 Like, wouldn't that be the best thing?

00:45:25.000 Like, if hospitals were just places where the doctors get paid well because they're really good at their job, but what they're trying to do is make you better.

00:45:31.000 No, those hospitals are trying to make as much money as possible.

00:45:34.000 They want to keep you in as much as possible, prescribe as much medication as possible.

00:45:38.000 You know what?

00:45:38.000 I'll give you an example of that.

00:45:40.000 It's not really drug-related, but I went to a hospital.

00:45:43.000 I had pneumonia, and they accidentally gave me the hospital bill of everything that they used on me.

00:45:53.000 Like, if I had ginger ale, diet ginger ale, It was a little six ounce, those little ones.

00:46:00.000 I had like 20 of them while I was there.

00:46:02.000 They were charging $12 for each one of those.

00:46:06.000 They had on the bill like the linen, what the linen costs and this and that.

00:46:11.000 Linen was $200, just the bed sheets.

00:46:14.000 I saw all this stuff on this bill.

00:46:16.000 The bill ended up being for five days, it was $165,000.

00:46:21.000 How could you spend $165,000 just laying in a hospital bed?

00:46:27.000 You know, they're serving three meals a day.

00:46:29.000 Yeah.

00:46:30.000 I mean, $167,000. 0.76

00:46:32.000 It's ridiculous. 0.76

00:46:34.000 It's business. 0.97

00:46:35.000 That's what's crazy about business, right?

00:46:37.000 Businesses, people just want to make the most money possible. 0.88

00:46:40.000 It's fucking crazy when it's involving pills and people's health. 0.81

00:46:44.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:46:45.000 God.

00:46:46.000 So how many years have you been clean now?

00:46:49.000 Twelve.

00:46:50.000 Twelve years.

00:46:50.000 That's awesome.

00:46:51.000 Congratulations.

00:46:52.000 That must be very nice.

00:46:54.000 Yeah, it's nice.

00:46:55.000 You know, I don't have a lot of, thank God, I don't have a lot of triggers anymore.

00:47:00.000 I used to when I had, because I was going through a lot of pain, and I had my knees replaced, I had my back surgery, so I'm actually on the med now.

00:47:09.000 When did you have your knees replaced?

00:47:10.000 I had the shoulder replaced, too.

00:47:12.000 I had them replaced a year ago.

00:47:14.000 How'd that go?

00:47:15.000 Really good, really good.

00:47:19.000 My doctor was really progressive.

00:47:22.000 He got me out of bed the day of surgery, had me walking around. 0.64

00:47:26.000 It was ridiculous.

00:47:28.000 Did you do one at a time or both at the same time? 0.95

00:47:30.000 Both at the same time.

00:47:31.000 Oh my god.

00:47:31.000 So you're walking around with two new knees?

00:47:34.000 I left the hospital without using anything.

00:47:36.000 I walked out of the hospital the next day.

00:47:39.000 Yeah, and he wanted me to walk up the steps and down the steps.

00:47:42.000 Wow!

00:47:43.000 It was crazy.

00:47:44.000 I mean, it didn't take me long to recover, though.

00:47:47.000 Probably four or five months.

00:47:49.000 It usually takes a year, but I did in probably four or five months.

00:47:52.000 Wow.

00:47:52.000 Yeah.

00:47:54.000 Wow.

00:47:54.000 And with no painkillers?

00:47:55.000 No painkillers.

00:47:57.000 Do you take CBD or anything like that?

00:47:59.000 I tried CBD. It doesn't really work on me.

00:48:02.000 I think the volume of pain you're dealing with is probably outside of CBD's pay scale.

00:48:08.000 Is there a way to OD on CBD? No, I don't believe so.

00:48:11.000 It might be.

00:48:12.000 I mean, it might be bad for you as I look at a kill cliff with CBD in it.

00:48:16.000 This is 25 milligrams.

00:48:19.000 This is nothing.

00:48:20.000 Yeah, CBD is for people that have mild arthritis and general discomfort and inflammation.

00:48:27.000 It's not for what you were dealing with.

00:48:30.000 Shoulder replacements, knee replacements, disc replacements.

00:48:34.000 I can't wait to get my neck done.

00:48:37.000 I mean, I need that number of that doctor, man.

00:48:39.000 That's all I'm thinking about right now, Joe.

00:48:41.000 Yeah, well, as soon as we get out of here, I'll contact Al Joe and try to get that hooked up and find out, because his is amazing.

00:48:47.000 I mean, the fact that he was able to get that surgery, I believe Chris Weidman got the same surgery.

00:48:52.000 I don't know if it's from the same doctor, but several guys in the UFC have gotten that surgery.

00:48:57.000 You know what?

00:48:57.000 John Cena had it, too.

00:48:59.000 Oh, yeah?

00:49:00.000 I believe, but his was a rubber disc.

00:49:02.000 Interesting.

00:49:03.000 How long ago was this?

00:49:05.000 Probably seven or eight years ago.

00:49:08.000 He had neck surgery.

00:49:09.000 I believe he had a rubber disc put in his neck.

00:49:12.000 I'm not so sure that's going to last as long as the other one, the doctor that does yours.

00:49:19.000 That's the scary things they'll tell you, like we'll replace something, whether it's a hip or whatever, but in 20 years you're going to need a new one.

00:49:26.000 I know, I know.

00:49:28.000 They told me to take care of your knees because they won't last forever. 1.00

00:49:31.000 What did they give you, like a timeline?

00:49:33.000 15, 20. But I told them, can I run on them?

00:49:36.000 They said, no, but I run on them.

00:49:38.000 Jesus!

00:49:42.000 You do a lot of cardio to make up for all the stuff that you can't do?

00:49:48.000 I only run two miles two or three days a week because of my knees. 0.97

00:49:54.000 I don't want to overdo it because I know they'll probably go to shit in a year or two if I abuse them too much. 0.99

00:50:00.000 So I do very little. 0.99

00:50:02.000 I run a couple miles three days a week.

00:50:04.000 Not a lot.

00:50:05.000 You know, as bad as the pharmaceutical drug companies are in pushing painkillers, thank God the medical, like the technological side of it, of the medical community, is developing these incredible replacements.

00:50:19.000 That's crazy, huh?

00:50:20.000 Yeah.

00:50:21.000 Getting new knees, new shoulders, yeah.

00:50:23.000 Like Matt Serra, who's the UFC welterweight champion, he just got his knee replaced.

00:50:26.000 He's back to jiu-jitsu, training again hard.

00:50:28.000 He's gonna get his other one done.

00:50:30.000 I mean, it's kind of incredible.

00:50:31.000 Now will he compete again?

00:50:32.000 No, he's not competing anymore.

00:50:34.000 But he's 50, you know, close to it at least.

00:50:36.000 You know, what he's doing is just training and doing normal stuff.

00:50:40.000 At least he can do what he was doing before.

00:50:42.000 Yeah, at least he can do what he was doing before.

00:50:44.000 I mean, there's a lot of guys that they do some pretty high-level athletics with knee replacements, which is pretty crazy.

00:50:51.000 Does it hurt?

00:50:53.000 What do the knees feel like?

00:50:54.000 No, but you know what?

00:50:56.000 They only bend.

00:50:58.000 You can't go sideways with them.

00:51:00.000 Oh, really?

00:51:01.000 It's almost like it's done like this.

00:51:05.000 It's like a hinge.

00:51:06.000 So it doesn't twist.

00:51:07.000 You can't cut left and right.

00:51:10.000 Not real well.

00:51:12.000 It's kind of like this.

00:51:13.000 It's insane because all the wrestlers that we've had on All unbelievable athletes, right?

00:51:22.000 But The Undertaker, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan especially, mostly known for their big characters, the entertainment side of things.

00:51:32.000 And Kurt's also known for that.

00:51:34.000 But really, Kurt is considered, I mean, Triple H, John Cena, they've all said that he is the best athlete in the history of the sport.

00:51:44.000 So compared to the people that we've had on, you've done more.

00:51:48.000 He was throwing people more and landing on his head more and doing longer matches at the peak of it all.

00:51:57.000 So it's wild to hear.

00:51:59.000 A lot of them have had replacements and this and that, but it's almost a miracle that that's all that you've had.

00:52:06.000 Yeah, you know what, especially with everything that I've gone through, it is really brutal.

00:52:13.000 I wrestled pro wrestling, I think it was 19 years, and I did amateur for about 22. So, I mean, both of them have affected me.

00:52:26.000 I'm not going to lie to you.

00:52:27.000 I had probably eight knee injuries and four surgeries in college and high school.

00:52:34.000 Mostly meniscus stuff?

00:52:35.000 Yeah, I had one was ACL, but most of it was meniscus.

00:52:42.000 I also blew out my PCL and I never had it replaced.

00:52:46.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:52:47.000 Still like it.

00:52:48.000 Well, now that they gave me a knee replacement, it doesn't really matter.

00:52:51.000 Right.

00:52:52.000 Yeah, but I had my knee, I could shift my leg.

00:52:58.000 Three inches back and forth.

00:52:59.000 Wow!

00:53:00.000 It was really loose because my PCL wasn't there anymore.

00:53:03.000 That's insane.

00:53:04.000 And you were wrestling with that.

00:53:06.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:53:07.000 See, everyone wants to complain.

00:53:10.000 Forty hours a week is such a long week.

00:53:13.000 I'm so tired.

00:53:17.000 This levels to what people have to tolerate in this life.

00:53:22.000 What they have to endure.

00:53:24.000 But I guess going through all that, you could probably go through basically anything.

00:53:28.000 I don't know, man.

00:53:29.000 Bring it on. 1.00

00:53:33.000 I've gone through a lot of shit, man. 1.00

00:53:35.000 I have. 0.99

00:53:37.000 What are you doing these days to keep yourself occupied?

00:53:40.000 Well, I just finished a movie called Thy Will Be Done.

00:53:44.000 It's a really good independent movie.

00:53:46.000 And I have a movie that I'm going to be doing at the beginning of next year with Michael Tadros Jr. Brandy Couture is going to be in it.

00:53:55.000 Oh, that's awesome.

00:53:55.000 Yeah.

00:53:56.000 So I'm looking forward to that.

00:53:57.000 So I've been doing some of that stuff.

00:54:00.000 I run a podcast, The Kurt Angle Show.

00:54:03.000 Oh, nice.

00:54:04.000 Yeah.

00:54:04.000 And I also own a supplement company.

00:54:07.000 I have...

00:54:08.000 A company called Physically Fit, and we have a product called Smart Snacks.

00:54:15.000 They're little crispy protein bites.

00:54:19.000 They're a bunch of flavors, 11 different flavors.

00:54:22.000 They're really good, high-protein, low-carbohydrate.

00:54:24.000 They're doing pretty well.

00:54:26.000 Right now, we're going into Walmart.

00:54:31.000 We're in the quick...

00:54:33.000 Quick fill stores, a bunch of grocery stores, a bunch of convenience stores.

00:54:39.000 So they're doing okay.

00:54:41.000 Do you got a website that people can go to to get that?

00:54:42.000 Yeah, physicallyfit.com.

00:54:44.000 How'd you get that?

00:54:47.000 That's incredible.

00:54:49.000 Yep.

00:54:49.000 How'd you get that?

00:54:50.000 That's a fucking incredible URL. It is. 0.99

00:54:53.000 You know what?

00:54:54.000 That's what people, when they look, when they want to get in shape, the first thing they type up is, how do I get physically fit?

00:54:59.000 Yeah.

00:55:00.000 And we're the first thing that pops up.

00:55:02.000 It was clever on my co-owner's part to do that.

00:55:05.000 That's very clever.

00:55:06.000 So what are those chicks in... 1.00

00:55:08.000 What is that?

00:55:09.000 How do you say that?

00:55:09.000 Chicken snacks.

00:55:10.000 Chicken snacks.

00:55:11.000 Yeah.

00:55:12.000 Those are chicken protein.

00:55:15.000 Oh.

00:55:15.000 They're made with chicken.

00:55:17.000 The ones, whey protein at the top, those are whey protein. 0.98

00:55:22.000 And I believe, I think they're whey protein.

00:55:26.000 They might be the organic plant protein, but I can't.

00:55:29.000 Crispy protein bites.

00:55:30.000 So you sell all kinds of stuff.

00:55:32.000 Yeah, well, we just sell the protein bites. 0.99

00:55:35.000 Oh, okay.

00:55:35.000 They're all different.

00:55:36.000 One's chicken, one's plant, one's whey.

00:55:38.000 Oh, okay.

00:55:39.000 Yeah.

00:55:40.000 Well, that's a great URL. Okay, so go to physicallyfit.com, folks.

00:55:44.000 Go ahead and get some of that.

00:55:47.000 So, that's great that you're doing movies, too.

00:55:50.000 Randy Couture is probably the best example of a UFC fighter that went from, you know, fighting to, I mean, he was in Expendables.

00:55:58.000 I mean, wrestling and fighting.

00:55:59.000 Fighting into movies.

00:56:01.000 Yeah, I mean, he's done a great job.

00:56:02.000 He has.

00:56:03.000 He's done a great job.

00:56:05.000 I know he's been doing...

00:56:06.000 He's what?

00:56:07.000 He's done two Expendable movies?

00:56:10.000 How many of them are there?

00:56:11.000 Gosh, there's like...

00:56:12.000 11 or 12?

00:56:15.000 There's four of them?

00:56:16.000 I said 11 or 12. It's hilarious.

00:56:18.000 You're watching these really old guys just kicking the shit out of everybody. 1.00

00:56:21.000 I know, I know. 0.99

00:56:22.000 I'm one of them now.

00:56:24.000 If they ever pick me to do it, I'm going to be 55. So it's just funny that they're all over 50, over 60, mostly, yeah.

00:56:33.000 Well, Stallone.

00:56:34.000 Stallone's pushing 80, right?

00:56:35.000 He looks great.

00:56:36.000 He does look great.

00:56:37.000 He's a canary in the coal mine.

00:56:38.000 Yes, he is.

00:56:41.000 Keep it going as long as that guy has.

00:56:42.000 He broke his neck on one of those.

00:56:44.000 I think he got his neck fused.

00:56:46.000 I heard about that.

00:56:47.000 Yeah, he got fusion and everything.

00:56:50.000 He was doing a stunt because he was doing his own stunts and he got thrown into a wall or something.

00:56:54.000 Snapped his neck.

00:56:57.000 I guess he was getting a little too old and he stuck with it a little bit too long.

00:57:02.000 Well, he's hardcore.

00:57:03.000 You know, imagine wanting to do your own stunts when you're 70. Like, yo, throw me through the wall!

00:57:08.000 Let's go! 1.00

00:57:09.000 It's like a fucking psycho. 1.00

00:57:14.000 I'm a big Stallone fan. 1.00

00:57:15.000 I love the guy.

00:57:16.000 How can you not be?

00:57:17.000 I mean, the guy can act, too.

00:57:19.000 That's what's crazy about Stone.

00:57:20.000 Like, that movie Copland.

00:57:21.000 You ever see that movie Copland?

00:57:23.000 Good movie.

00:57:23.000 Very good movie, man.

00:57:24.000 It was like one of his first movies where, you know, he gained weight.

00:57:29.000 He actually got fat for that movie on purpose.

00:57:31.000 Like, just to show, like, it's not just all about being.

00:57:34.000 God, he probably gained 40 or 50 pounds.

00:57:36.000 Yeah.

00:57:36.000 And had a tremendous performance, like, as an actor.

00:57:40.000 Just as an actor, like...

00:57:42.000 And he's always used to dieting down for his movies.

00:57:45.000 Looking ripped, taking his shirt off.

00:57:47.000 He's done a lot of those movies, too, obviously.

00:57:49.000 But, you know, that was a very impressive movie.

00:57:53.000 The fact that he...

00:57:54.000 I mean, it's got to be hard for a guy like that, too.

00:57:56.000 Your whole career, you're looking great, shredded, rocky.

00:57:59.000 Oh, yeah.

00:57:59.000 And then I'm sure it set him into a little bit of a depression, to be honest with you.

00:58:04.000 Probably.

00:58:05.000 Yeah.

00:58:05.000 But then he probably also enjoyed the accolades from the movie because a lot of people really respected him after that.

00:58:11.000 For a lot of those, like, action guys, they don't, you know, that's, like, the thing they don't get respect for is their actual acting ability.

00:58:19.000 The agility is incredible.

00:58:20.000 I watched this Gary Oldman.

00:58:22.000 I don't know if I told you about this.

00:58:23.000 I found this.

00:58:24.000 Gary Oldman, like, there's, like, a nine-minute video on YouTube of him and all of his different characters that he's done, and you can't You can't even tell it's him, 80% of them.

00:58:36.000 The guy is such a freak.

00:58:37.000 Remember True Romance?

00:58:39.000 Oh, God.

00:58:40.000 And that's just one of them.

00:58:41.000 Just one of them.

00:58:42.000 How about Dracula?

00:58:43.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:58:44.000 He was really good. 0.98

00:58:45.000 He was fucking incredible. 0.99

00:58:46.000 Unbelievable. 0.99

00:58:46.000 And he played old Dracula and young Dracula in the same movie. 0.99

00:58:51.000 He's so versatile.

00:58:53.000 I think he's kind of...

00:58:54.000 Is he retired from acting?

00:58:55.000 He might be one of those guys like...

00:58:58.000 There's a lot of those guys that just get so tired of being other people, like, who am I? Right.

00:59:03.000 Yeah, man, I mean, but his character, he really went way out there.

00:59:08.000 Yeah, way out there.

00:59:09.000 No two are anywhere near the same.

00:59:12.000 This thing that you're watching, because it just switches every 20 or 30 seconds to a different thing.

00:59:16.000 Yeah.

00:59:17.000 And so many people get kind of typecasted, like Christoph Waltz from Inglourious Bastards.

00:59:22.000 That character that he played was so cool that it almost seems like in every movie they're trying to get him to do that again.

00:59:28.000 Yeah.

00:59:28.000 Alright, you're going to be a villain in this, you're going to be smooth-talking and over-enunciating.

00:59:33.000 They try to get it again.

00:59:35.000 And it's so interesting, the guys that test themselves and push themselves like that.

00:59:40.000 Yeah.

00:59:40.000 It's got to be hard when your whole identity is wrapped up in pro wrestling to just stop.

00:59:48.000 How difficult was it for you to just stop wrestling?

00:59:51.000 It was hard.

00:59:53.000 I mean, when you leave, you get depressed.

00:59:55.000 You miss the action.

00:59:57.000 You miss the fans' responses.

01:00:01.000 I understand why...

01:00:05.000 You know, a lot of wrestlers have fell into depression, that started taking drugs, ended their lives a lot quicker than other professions.

01:00:18.000 But it is.

01:00:20.000 It's a very addictive form of entertainment.

01:00:24.000 I mean, once you're in it, you love it, and you never want to leave it.

01:00:28.000 And the problem is, everybody gets to an age where they can't do it anymore.

01:00:32.000 So you have to come to grips with it.

01:00:34.000 If you don't, You're probably not going to survive much longer.

01:00:37.000 But look at Ric Flair.

01:00:39.000 You know what?

01:00:40.000 He's living the dream.

01:00:41.000 He's still Ric Flair.

01:00:42.000 Every day.

01:00:43.000 He's still Ric Flair.

01:00:43.000 He's just not wrestling in the ring.

01:00:45.000 He's just doing it in the streets everywhere.

01:00:47.000 It is unbelievable.

01:00:48.000 Tell the story about how you were partying with him the other day.

01:00:51.000 Dude, so...

01:00:52.000 So he's in town, and he hits me up on a Sunday at, like, noon.

01:00:58.000 He's like, let's hit the streets tonight, show me the city.

01:01:02.000 Let's have some drinks and pick up some babes. 1.00

01:01:05.000 I'm like, okay.

01:01:07.000 He goes, I'm done with this comic book signing at 5pm.

01:01:10.000 I'm like, sweet, I'll meet you at 5. About a half hour later, he goes, I'm gonna be done with the comic book signing at 1.30.

01:01:18.000 That's Rick!

01:01:21.000 He shafted the fence three and a half hours.

01:01:23.000 Oh, man.

01:01:25.000 I go, okay, I'll meet you.

01:01:27.000 Where do you want me to meet you?

01:01:28.000 He's like at this hotel bar.

01:01:30.000 I go to this hotel.

01:01:31.000 I find the first security guy I know.

01:01:34.000 I go, where's the bar?

01:01:36.000 And he points like that.

01:01:37.000 It was just right over his shoulder.

01:01:39.000 And I just see that white flanking hair. 0.90

01:01:42.000 And there are, on each side of him, three and three just flanking. 1.00

01:01:47.000 Flight attendants, fucking nurses. 1.00

01:01:51.000 I mean, just a gaggle of geese. 1.00

01:01:54.000 And I'm walking up and I'm like, this is like what I've heard about forever.

01:01:59.000 I'm like walking up to like a music video or the story or the cartoon of Ric Flair.

01:02:07.000 And sure enough, he introduces, these ladies work at Southwest Airlines, this one's a this, this is that. 0.98

01:02:14.000 And he goes, let's hit the streets, I'll get us a car.

01:02:17.000 And he gets a car, he gives the guy a stack of hundreds, he goes, you're gonna be our driver for the day.

01:02:24.000 This random Uber driver's like, okay.

01:02:27.000 He's like, you're gonna be our driver.

01:02:29.000 Oh, it's unbelievable.

01:02:31.000 And he is just the man.

01:02:34.000 I mean, he was already pounding vodka cranberries.

01:02:37.000 He's like, what do you want to drink?

01:02:38.000 I'm like, I'll have what he's having.

01:02:39.000 I haven't had a vodka cranberry since I was like 17 years old.

01:02:43.000 And I swear to God, we went all day.

01:02:46.000 We went from 1.30 to...

01:02:48.000 He didn't leave me until like 8 p.m.

01:02:50.000 He like knew his limit.

01:02:52.000 He's like, I'm gonna get back.

01:02:53.000 He didn't seem drunk at all.

01:02:56.000 He must have had 17 vodka cranberries.

01:02:59.000 I think it's because he's drunk all the time.

01:03:03.000 That's what I think.

01:03:04.000 And he's so nice to everybody.

01:03:06.000 There's a part of me when you're, you know, I've been around so many big people for so long where I'm like kind of, if they're with me, I'm like kind of protective.

01:03:13.000 Like, come on, give them some air, this and that.

01:03:16.000 But he was just embracing everybody.

01:03:18.000 He was so cool.

01:03:20.000 So nice.

01:03:21.000 And everyone gravitates towards him.

01:03:24.000 Waka Flock Aflame, rappers.

01:03:27.000 Who talk to anybody.

01:03:28.000 Yeah.

01:03:29.000 Waka Flock Aflame, one of the great rappers, shows up.

01:03:33.000 He goes, yeah, Rick, I heard you were here.

01:03:34.000 What's up?

01:03:35.000 Let's hang out.

01:03:36.000 People find out where he is and gravitate towards him.

01:03:40.000 It's everything you hear about.

01:03:42.000 It's like being inside of a story.

01:03:46.000 It's hard to describe.

01:03:47.000 He's a lot of fun.

01:03:48.000 He is a living legend.

01:03:50.000 He's a real living legend.

01:03:51.000 He lives a gimmick 24-7.

01:03:53.000 And he says he's making more money now with his cannabis company than he ever made in pro wrestling.

01:03:59.000 You know what?

01:03:59.000 He told me when he was in WCW, he was only making...

01:04:04.000 $600,000 a year.

01:04:06.000 $600,000 a year.

01:04:07.000 And it's because when WCW bought out Crockett, the promotion down in the South, when they bought it out, they bought out Rick's contract.

01:04:18.000 His contract was $600,000.

01:04:20.000 So the WCW kept it at that for the rest of Rick's career. 0.98

01:04:24.000 Which was bullshit. 0.53

01:04:26.000 Rick should have been getting paid four or five times that. 0.95

01:04:29.000 So, you know, he always had money, but he was running out because he wasn't making as much as people thought he was.

01:04:34.000 Right, and he was living that life.

01:04:36.000 He lives a life, he does.

01:04:38.000 Whatever came in, came out.

01:04:39.000 He lives a life, yeah.

01:04:40.000 Well, he and a lot of these guys, they did the small circuit, and then they came up, and then they eventually got to the WWE or the WWF back then.

01:04:52.000 You went from the Olympics.

01:04:55.000 Mm-hmm.

01:04:56.000 Right into the big time.

01:04:58.000 Yeah.

01:04:58.000 Did you do any small shows to prepare?

01:05:01.000 No.

01:05:02.000 Nothing.

01:05:03.000 Okay, the crazy thing was I didn't even watch pro wrestling.

01:05:07.000 Wow.

01:05:08.000 So I was relatively new.

01:05:10.000 When I called the WWE in 1998, they offered me a contract in 1996, right after the Olympics.

01:05:16.000 I went up and met with Vince, and he gave me a multi-million dollar deal and threw it on the desk, and he said, hey, 10-year deal, let's do it.

01:05:24.000 I said, can I go home and think about it?

01:05:26.000 So I went home and went to my agent, and he grabbed the contract he threw in the trash.

01:05:31.000 He was a former amateur wrestler, also an NFL football player, former NFL player.

01:05:35.000 His name's Ralph Sindrich. 0.99

01:05:38.000 So he said, you're not going to do that crap. 0.99

01:05:39.000 You're the real deal. 0.99

01:05:40.000 I'll get you a better job.

01:05:42.000 So he gets me a job as a sportscaster in Pittsburgh for Fox.

01:05:46.000 And it was the worst experience of my life.

01:05:49.000 I mean, I was really bad.

01:05:53.000 And the thing is, it was a startup station, so I didn't get to rehearse.

01:05:57.000 So the first night on the air, here I am, I'm anchoring the sports, and my teleprompter goes out.

01:06:04.000 And my scripts, when I went into the studio, I ran to the producer and they all went up in the air and fell out of order.

01:06:10.000 So when I put them down, they were out of order.

01:06:12.000 So I'm looking at the teleprompter, the producer says, just look at the teleprompter, don't look at anything else, just read it.

01:06:18.000 And I go to read it and it goes black.

01:06:20.000 It goes out.

01:06:21.000 And I'm just sitting there for like a minute.

01:06:23.000 And the producer says, Kurt, say something, say anything.

01:06:27.000 So I remembered like the first story was Duquesne basketball.

01:06:32.000 They played tonight.

01:06:33.000 Let's go to the highlights because I didn't know what else to say.

01:06:35.000 And so the next sport, I had to guess what it was.

01:06:40.000 And I guess it was baseball and it was actually football.

01:06:43.000 So the whole segment turned out to be a disaster.

01:06:46.000 That was my first night on the air.

01:06:47.000 You had a guess!

01:06:48.000 And it didn't get any better.

01:06:50.000 So anyway, so I spent a year there.

01:06:53.000 So at the end of 1997, I started watching WWE, and I fell in love with a character named Stone Cold Steve Austin.

01:07:00.000 He was just... 0.99

01:07:02.000 Kicking ass. 1.00

01:07:03.000 I mean, he was, you know, he's flipping off his boss. 1.00

01:07:06.000 I thought he was the coolest thing in the world.

01:07:08.000 And so I decided to call the WLB in early 1998. And I said, does that contract still stand from 1996?

01:07:15.000 They said, no, but you can come up and try out.

01:07:18.000 So I went up and tried out.

01:07:19.000 After the first day, I picked up on it pretty quickly.

01:07:21.000 So they gave me a contract and I trained for about seven months.

01:07:25.000 And they literally, they had me training.

01:07:28.000 The first three months was a week a month where I just went up to WWE. I went into their studio and I would train with a couple of wrestlers.

01:07:37.000 And so I'd only do that one week a month for three months.

01:07:41.000 Then the following four months, they sent me to Memphis, to a smaller territory down in Memphis.

01:07:47.000 And I worked there for four months where I did one TV a week for four months.

01:07:52.000 And then Vince brought me up on the TV. I was only work training for seven months.

01:07:57.000 I wasn't ready to be on TV. And he wanted me to go on TV at that point in time.

01:08:02.000 So I was like, Vince, I... You want me to cut a promo tonight?

01:08:06.000 I don't even know how to cut a promo.

01:08:08.000 I didn't learn that down in Memphis.

01:08:10.000 I did one or two promos in Memphis, and they were horrible.

01:08:14.000 And now Vince wants me to cut a promo for five minutes.

01:08:17.000 And he's going to tell me it.

01:08:20.000 He's not even going to write it down.

01:08:21.000 He's going to tell me what it is, and he wants me to go out there and do it. 0.99

01:08:25.000 I'm like, holy shit, there's no way. 0.71

01:08:27.000 So I said, okay, go tell me the promo. 0.99

01:08:28.000 So he starts talking, and the whole time I'm just thinking, this is fucking long. 0.96

01:08:33.000 This is really fucking long. 0.95

01:08:35.000 I'm not going to remember any of this. 0.89

01:08:36.000 So when he gets done, I said, Vince, I'm sorry, but I didn't hear a word you said.

01:08:40.000 You're going to have to repeat it again.

01:08:43.000 He said, I'm going to tell you one more time, and you got to go out there and do it.

01:08:46.000 You either sink or swim.

01:08:47.000 Wow.

01:08:48.000 So I went out and I did about 80% right, and he was like...

01:08:52.000 I think I have somebody here.

01:08:53.000 I think it's a guy I can work with.

01:08:55.000 So I was learning on the job and I was getting better and better every week.

01:08:59.000 And Vince continued to push me.

01:09:01.000 I mean, within three months I was at the main event level.

01:09:04.000 It was like, whoa, like what's going on here?

01:09:06.000 Why am I getting, you know, why am I getting pushed so hard?

01:09:10.000 And he just wanted to create another star and he thought I had the ability to do it.

01:09:14.000 And I was able to follow up on it.

01:09:17.000 I did all the promos the right way, did all the pre-tapes, my matches were great.

01:09:22.000 Did you get like a coach on how to do the promos?

01:09:24.000 Like how'd you learn how to do them?

01:09:25.000 No, I learned on the job.

01:09:27.000 They were giving me promos. 0.96

01:09:28.000 I had a great writer that wrote for me and I had a lot of funny shit I did in WWE. Yeah you did. 0.91

01:09:33.000 Was a lot of that you?

01:09:34.000 You and your writer laughing with each other?

01:09:37.000 Like does this come from Vince?

01:09:38.000 It was my writer writing it for me.

01:09:39.000 So like the milk?

01:09:40.000 Yeah.

01:09:41.000 That's him?

01:09:41.000 That was my writer, Brian Gwartz.

01:09:43.000 He sprayed people with milk.

01:09:47.000 I did a lot of stuff.

01:09:49.000 I did a battle rap with John Cena.

01:09:53.000 What else did I do?

01:09:54.000 I did the Sexy Kurt when I imitated Shawn Michaels.

01:09:58.000 I'll give you something that I did, for example. 1.00

01:10:01.000 I was such an idiot. 1.00

01:10:03.000 I always fucked up. 1.00

01:10:06.000 There was one night where I was supposed to wrestle Rey Mysterio. 0.99

01:10:10.000 I was like, Rey Mysterio, you're a boy in a man's world, and I'm a man who loves to play with boys.

01:10:16.000 And I'd go, no, no, that's not what I meant to say. 0.98

01:10:19.000 And then I would say something else and that would fuck me up too. 0.89

01:10:22.000 I'd be like, no, not that either. 0.98

01:10:24.000 So fans got to make fun of me and laugh with me.

01:10:27.000 It was a really cool relationship I had with them.

01:10:31.000 I was the bad guy, but they kind of loved me.

01:10:34.000 At one point in time, Tony was going to get hired by the WWE, but he didn't want to move to Connecticut.

01:10:39.000 He was going to be one of the writers.

01:10:41.000 Yeah.

01:10:42.000 Like, tell that story.

01:10:43.000 Because it's kind of a crazy story.

01:10:44.000 We almost lost you.

01:10:46.000 You have to move there.

01:10:47.000 You have to.

01:10:47.000 Yeah, you have to move there.

01:10:48.000 Now, some of them don't live there anymore, but they have to go up there, like, right after TV and stay up there for the whole week.

01:10:55.000 Right.

01:10:55.000 And they only go home for one day.

01:10:57.000 Yeah.

01:10:57.000 So...

01:10:58.000 Connecticut, which is absolute hell. 1.00

01:11:01.000 And expensive as shit. 1.00

01:11:02.000 Middle of nowhere. 0.99

01:11:03.000 And yeah, somehow I can't even remember.

01:11:06.000 It was so long ago, but I got this meeting with them.

01:11:09.000 Somebody wanted to talk with me.

01:11:10.000 They heard that I was a pro wrestling fan.

01:11:12.000 And I just destroyed at this meeting and I gave them a bunch of crazy ideas that I just had in the back of my head forever.

01:11:19.000 Stuff for The Undertaker to do, stuff for this, stuff for that.

01:11:23.000 And I killed it at this meeting and they offered me a full-time job.

01:11:27.000 But at the time, I was already three, four, five years into stand-up comedy and working at the store.

01:11:32.000 I devoted everything to stand-up comedy.

01:11:35.000 So there's no way I could go backwards, especially for like a job with a boss and bosses and word on the street.

01:11:41.000 Like Patrice O'Neill, a great comedian, would Took the job.

01:11:45.000 And famously, anybody who takes the job, they're like, it's hell.

01:11:48.000 It's fun.

01:11:49.000 I didn't know Patrice took that job.

01:11:50.000 Oh, he was doing it.

01:11:51.000 Really?

01:11:52.000 He was in it.

01:11:52.000 Oh, yeah.

01:11:53.000 He went to Connecticut the whole deal?

01:11:54.000 Well, they pay you so good.

01:11:56.000 It's like hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

01:11:59.000 Because they make so much money.

01:12:01.000 And the writers are so important because they're putting out so much content.

01:12:05.000 Two, three shows a week.

01:12:07.000 Pay-per-views.

01:12:08.000 All of these big, long, drawn-out storylines, like week after week.

01:12:12.000 Yeah, they write six months ahead of time.

01:12:15.000 And they rewrite the day of.

01:12:17.000 So it's a nightmare.

01:12:19.000 Vince will go, I hate it, change everything.

01:12:21.000 The day of, famously.

01:12:23.000 An hour before.

01:12:25.000 And as a real fan...

01:12:26.000 That's happened many times.

01:12:28.000 Yeah.

01:12:29.000 Yeah.

01:12:29.000 And you hear these things and it's like, God, I, you know, it would have been cool if it would have been cool.

01:12:36.000 What I mean by that is like, if I could do it during the day and then take a train to New York City and do stand up, that would have been fine.

01:12:42.000 But it's not that kind of job.

01:12:43.000 It's we need you in the office right now.

01:12:45.000 Where are you?

01:12:46.000 That type of thing.

01:12:47.000 So you could have had a gig.

01:12:48.000 You would have had to cancel your gig.

01:12:49.000 Yeah.

01:12:50.000 Yeah.

01:12:51.000 But yeah, McMahon fired him six times.

01:12:54.000 Yeah.

01:12:55.000 According to this article I'm reading about it right now.

01:12:57.000 That's what they do.

01:12:57.000 They fire you.

01:12:58.000 Who not fired six times?

01:12:59.000 Patrice, because he had stand-up gays conflicting with his WWE stuff. 0.72

01:13:03.000 And they hired him back.

01:13:04.000 Yeah, it says Stephanie incredulously fired him six times.

01:13:07.000 Yeah.

01:13:07.000 That's hilarious.

01:13:08.000 I had no idea Patrice did that.

01:13:10.000 I never heard that story.

01:13:12.000 Yeah.

01:13:12.000 I can't believe I haven't mentioned it before.

01:13:14.000 I can't believe I didn't know.

01:13:15.000 Yeah.

01:13:18.000 The money, especially then, I mean I was so broke it was crazy for me to turn down the job. 0.97

01:13:25.000 I mean I was fucking starving. 0.88

01:13:27.000 This is like right before I start writing on the roasts and on television. 0.99

01:13:32.000 Right before.

01:13:33.000 And I'm not headlining yet.

01:13:34.000 Couldn't sell a ticket to my name.

01:13:36.000 Just some Comedy Store door guy.

01:13:38.000 So, like, I should have. 0.96

01:13:40.000 On paper, I am a moron for not taking the job, but it was a huge gamble that, thank God, paid off. 0.96

01:13:47.000 Yeah, well, you believed in yourself. 0.96

01:13:49.000 But yeah, I mean, it also would have been fun.

01:13:51.000 It'd be fun to have a clone of me and live that life for a bit, because I think I would have done some really crazy stuff.

01:13:57.000 I think I would have worked my way up really fast and probably been...

01:14:00.000 Oh, you would have been a mastermind at that stuff, because you're such a fan. 0.99

01:14:04.000 And you're so good at writing shit for other people, too. 0.99

01:14:07.000 You know, Brian Gewurz, that's what he was. 1.00

01:14:10.000 He was a huge fan.

01:14:12.000 I don't know if you know who Brian is.

01:14:14.000 Well, he's the one that he wrote for The Rock, for me, for Chris Jericho, Edge and Christian.

01:14:20.000 He would write for guys he had certain chemistry with.

01:14:24.000 And he actually wrote a book this past year and he's had a lot of success.

01:14:28.000 Actually, you know who hired him?

01:14:31.000 Stole him from WWE, The Rock.

01:14:33.000 The Rock, he works for his production company now.

01:14:36.000 Oh, nice.

01:14:36.000 Yeah, Seven Bucks Productions.

01:14:38.000 That's where Brian is now.

01:14:39.000 And that's what you were part of.

01:14:41.000 This guy was part of peak entertainment.

01:14:44.000 You look at Cena, The Rock, Kurt Angle.

01:14:47.000 This was all every Monday, every Sunday, every Thursday, every Friday.

01:14:53.000 I mean, everybody's a star.

01:14:55.000 They stayed stars.

01:14:58.000 Hogan's movie career, well, you know, he was in some stuff.

01:15:02.000 It was always like, you know, kind of low budget.

01:15:05.000 Tonight on the USA Network, a Hulk Hogan movie. 0.97

01:15:08.000 Whereas, you know, The Rock is fucking, he's number one, right? 0.98

01:15:12.000 Yes, yes. 1.00

01:15:13.000 And Cena and Batista are kicking ass. 0.99

01:15:14.000 Yeah, Batista, exactly. 0.99

01:15:16.000 And this is all his class.

01:15:18.000 These are his people.

01:15:19.000 Batista's doing some real movies, man.

01:15:21.000 He is.

01:15:21.000 He's challenging himself.

01:15:22.000 That Glass Onion movie?

01:15:24.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:15:24.000 That's a great fucking movie, man. 1.00

01:15:26.000 He was great in that. 0.99

01:15:28.000 Yeah, he's talented.

01:15:30.000 Very talented.

01:15:31.000 You know, it's crazy, man.

01:15:32.000 He was like a...

01:15:33.000 I guess he was a doorman for a bar in D.C. And, you know, he was always a big, jacked-up dude.

01:15:41.000 And someone came up to him and said, Hey, you should be a pro wrestler.

01:15:43.000 Look at him.

01:15:45.000 It worked out.

01:15:46.000 Yeah, it worked out.

01:15:47.000 He's doing all these movies and just having a lot of success.

01:15:52.000 And he seems to be okay physically.

01:15:54.000 Like, he's gotten through it physically.

01:15:55.000 I'm really surprised at how well he moves around, considering his age and what he's been able to go through.

01:16:03.000 But it's crazy.

01:16:04.000 I mean, he actually...

01:16:07.000 He actually is, like, working out like he's 30 years old.

01:16:11.000 That's crazy.

01:16:12.000 Yeah, and he's probably, what, 55, 57 years old?

01:16:14.000 Probably, and he looks great.

01:16:16.000 It's just amazing that he's been able to do it without any of the real big injuries.

01:16:20.000 Yeah, you're absolutely right.

01:16:20.000 Because he wrestled for a long time, right?

01:16:22.000 How long did he wrestle for?

01:16:24.000 20 years.

01:16:26.000 Wow, that's incredible.

01:16:28.000 That's really incredible.

01:16:30.000 Thank you.

01:16:33.000 What is it like working for Vince? 0.99

01:16:35.000 That guy's got to be fucking... 0.99

01:16:36.000 I mean, we need to get him in here. 1.00

01:16:38.000 Yeah.

01:16:38.000 You know what?

01:16:39.000 That's a good idea.

01:16:40.000 I would love to get him in here.

01:16:41.000 Especially now that he's got this relationship with the UFC. Now that they're...

01:16:45.000 Is that thing working?

01:16:47.000 Nope.

01:16:50.000 Yeah.

01:16:52.000 You know what?

01:16:53.000 Vince is very, very talented.

01:16:57.000 He's a workaholic, though.

01:17:00.000 Very, very, very much a workaholic.

01:17:02.000 Oh, clearly.

01:17:03.000 Yeah, he works seven days a week.

01:17:07.000 Even when he's on vacation, he makes his riders go down to the vacation with them.

01:17:12.000 Really?

01:17:13.000 They're sitting in a hotel room or on the beach talking about work.

01:17:17.000 Wow.

01:17:18.000 He's working 24-7.

01:17:19.000 And he's in his 70s.

01:17:20.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:17:21.000 And you know what's crazy?

01:17:22.000 When he's done, he goes to work out when he gets home, which, like, when he's on the road traveling, TVs are over at midnight.

01:17:31.000 He'll go to the gym at 1 o'clock, train till 3. He'll go to sleep from 4 to 6. Then he'll wake up and he just repeats the cycle.

01:17:40.000 How?

01:17:40.000 He only sleeps two hours a day.

01:17:41.000 I don't know.

01:17:43.000 It's real.

01:17:44.000 How?

01:17:44.000 He's the real deal.

01:17:45.000 He's a workaholic, man.

01:17:47.000 He's a machine.

01:17:49.000 And he's created an entire universe that people, generations and generations, grandfathers, their sons, and their sons all have their favorite people and favorite things that have happened.

01:17:59.000 I love the guy.

01:18:01.000 I love the guy.

01:18:01.000 He's always treated me right.

01:18:03.000 I never had a problem with Vince.

01:18:07.000 I'm just glad he got the money he got because I never thought he was going to sell the company.

01:18:12.000 I thought you would have to take it from his cold dead hands, pry it from his cold dead hands when he died.

01:18:18.000 I really thought he was going to keep the company forever.

01:18:22.000 Yeah, I saw the meme the other day.

01:18:24.000 He bought it.

01:18:25.000 I can't remember the exact numbers, but for $1 million in whatever, 1982, from his father, he bought it.

01:18:31.000 $1 million, yeah.

01:18:31.000 To $9 billion.

01:18:33.000 Yep, $9 billion at the valuation last week.

01:18:36.000 Wow.

01:18:36.000 $1 million to $9 billion.

01:18:38.000 Wow.

01:18:39.000 Yeah.

01:18:40.000 He put his heart and soul into it, though, man.

01:18:43.000 Obviously. 0.99

01:18:43.000 It just goes to show you, nobody becomes that successful unless they're fucking driven. 0.99

01:18:51.000 Insane work ethic. 0.99

01:18:52.000 There's no other way.

01:18:53.000 There's no other way.

01:18:54.000 You're absolutely right.

01:18:56.000 That's crazy.

01:18:57.000 No one works hard, and he does.

01:18:58.000 Two hours sleep in your 70s?

01:19:00.000 Yeah.

01:19:00.000 I know.

01:19:02.000 I mean...

01:19:02.000 I need eight now.

01:19:04.000 I need eight.

01:19:05.000 I just don't...

01:19:06.000 I don't get it.

01:19:07.000 I mean, it's incredible.

01:19:09.000 I don't know how you can function like that.

01:19:11.000 He works out continuously. 1.00

01:19:13.000 He's fucking jacked! 1.00

01:19:14.000 He's jacked and he's in his 70s. 1.00

01:19:17.000 Yeah.

01:19:18.000 Actually, he might be...

01:19:20.000 How old is he, Jamie?

01:19:21.000 He's got to be closer to 80, right?

01:19:23.000 He's pushing it.

01:19:23.000 Let me see a picture of him now.

01:19:24.000 That's fucking bananas. 0.99

01:19:25.000 That's the real canary in the coal mine. 1.00

01:19:27.000 Yes, he is.

01:19:28.000 He just turned 78. 78!

01:19:30.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:19:32.000 You know what he told me when I came back to WWE? He said, listen, I'm going to have this company for a lot longer than you think, Mr. Angle.

01:19:43.000 I'm 73 right now.

01:19:45.000 My mom lived to be 101. I plan on living till I'm 120. He said, so...

01:19:53.000 And he said, I'm never letting the company go.

01:19:55.000 I'm always going to be working here.

01:19:58.000 And they're going to have to pull it from my cold, dead hands.

01:20:04.000 He really, Vince, that's what keeps him going.

01:20:09.000 This is why I'm a little, not nervous, but what's he going to do now?

01:20:15.000 What's he going to do now?

01:20:16.000 Because his whole life was wrestling, wrestling, wrestling.

01:20:19.000 Isn't he still involved in the company, though?

01:20:21.000 Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's still going to be there.

01:20:23.000 Okay, I heard he stepped back from the creative position.

01:20:25.000 Kind of, but that's what he says, right?

01:20:28.000 Okay, okay, so it's not true.

01:20:30.000 You've got to wonder with him how much of it is a storyline.

01:20:33.000 I'm back! 0.99

01:20:35.000 Goddammit! 0.98

01:20:36.000 If I want it done right, I have to do it myself! 0.99

01:20:38.000 Yeah, just see him fucking walking in there. 0.99

01:20:40.000 Power walk. 1.00

01:20:41.000 Yeah, I mean, he's just a fucking maniac. 0.99

01:20:44.000 I mean, the head of creative on paper is Triple H, who is his son-in-law, who, I mean, that's the most, like, dominant. 1.00

01:20:53.000 I mean, that's his former employee.

01:20:56.000 Like, he's got Triple H. No, no, I guess if Triple H is head of creative, then Bench is.

01:21:02.000 Look at him!

01:21:03.000 The head of creative.

01:21:04.000 Look at that picture of him.

01:21:06.000 In his 70s.

01:21:07.000 That's his personal trainer that travels with him everywhere.

01:21:11.000 At 3 a.m.

01:21:12.000 Yep.

01:21:13.000 Worked out at 3 a.m.

01:21:14.000 Wow.

01:21:15.000 3 a.m.

01:21:17.000 After Raw.

01:21:18.000 Wow.

01:21:19.000 And seeing 3 a.m.

01:21:20.000 workouts despite being 76. Oh, I wasn't wrong.

01:21:22.000 It was 3 a.m.

01:21:24.000 Yes, that was only two years ago. 0.99

01:21:25.000 So there was 76 there with a fucking big motorcycle chain around his neck. 1.00

01:21:30.000 He's jacked! 1.00

01:21:31.000 He is, man.

01:21:32.000 That guy's something special.

01:21:34.000 That's incredible.

01:21:35.000 It's just incredible that you could keep doing that.

01:21:37.000 But I guess if you don't stop, you know, you eat the right foods, take the right supplements, wink, wink, and just keep...

01:21:44.000 Make some chips to Mexico. 0.99

01:21:50.000 Keep that fucking train a-rolling. 1.00

01:21:52.000 Like that fucking Aerosmith song. 1.00

01:21:54.000 Train kept a-rolling all night long. 1.00

01:21:56.000 Look at him there.

01:21:57.000 Squatting almost 1,000 pounds.

01:22:00.000 Belt squat 1,000 pounds in 76. I mean, that's fucking bonkers. 0.99

01:22:04.000 That's bonkers. 1.00

01:22:05.000 Good for him. 1.00

01:22:06.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

01:22:07.000 There's very few humans like that out there. 1.00

01:22:09.000 They just have that kind of drive.

01:22:10.000 There's only one Vince.

01:22:11.000 I can tell you that.

01:22:12.000 There's only one Vince.

01:22:14.000 I've seen him at his best and his worst, and that guy, he's unbelievable.

01:22:19.000 I mean, he is...

01:22:22.000 He's the hardest working and most dedicated person I've ever been around.

01:22:27.000 He really is.

01:22:28.000 He sticks to his diet.

01:22:30.000 He works all day.

01:22:32.000 He makes sure he gets his workout in.

01:22:34.000 Everything is like a line for him.

01:22:36.000 Everything has to go a certain way for Vince.

01:22:39.000 Everything lined up just perfectly.

01:22:42.000 He's an animal. 0.83

01:22:44.000 He really is. 0.80

01:22:45.000 He's an animal. 0.88

01:22:46.000 Clearly. 0.90

01:22:46.000 I mean, that's what he looks like. 0.90

01:22:48.000 You don't look like that when you're 76 unless you're a fucking complete psycho. 0.99

01:22:52.000 And again, the creativity, like it never ends. 1.00

01:22:55.000 He puts out two, three hours of content every Monday for 30, what is it, 35 years now or something crazy?

01:23:02.000 30 something years, yeah.

01:23:03.000 Here's something to think about.

01:23:04.000 He's two years younger than Biden.

01:23:09.000 Wow, man.

01:23:10.000 That's a big difference.

01:23:12.000 Jeez Louise.

01:23:13.000 With everything.

01:23:14.000 Not just his body, but the mental sharpness.

01:23:17.000 The mental sharpness.

01:23:18.000 I mean, that's just incredible.

01:23:20.000 He's still sharp as a rock.

01:23:23.000 He really is. 1.00

01:23:24.000 Crazy. 0.99

01:23:26.000 Alan, rocks are sharp. 0.98

01:23:27.000 A jaded rock.

01:23:28.000 I know what you're saying, though.

01:23:29.000 Like a flint stone that they used to cut mammoth meat with.

01:23:34.000 Diamond, perhaps.

01:23:36.000 Yeah, something sharp.

01:23:37.000 Are diamonds really that sharp?

01:23:39.000 I guess they can be.

01:23:40.000 Diamond drills.

01:23:42.000 Diamond drill bits.

01:23:43.000 Yeah, well, they're just hard, really.

01:23:46.000 But yeah, I know what you're saying.

01:23:48.000 It's just extraordinary when you see someone who's such an outlier.

01:23:52.000 I mean, if you've got all the 78-year-old guys on Earth, that's number one. 0.73

01:23:57.000 Oh, yeah.

01:23:58.000 Oh, 100%.

01:23:58.000 Yeah.

01:23:59.000 Like, if you had to ask me, like, who's the fittest, most driven, on top of it, 78-year-old guy?

01:24:06.000 Vince McMahon.

01:24:07.000 Yeah.

01:24:08.000 100%.

01:24:08.000 Who's competing with him?

01:24:10.000 Who the fuck else? 0.98

01:24:11.000 Who's out there? 0.99

01:24:12.000 You would have heard of him.

01:24:14.000 If there's another guy like that out there, you would have heard of him.

01:24:17.000 No, you're right.

01:24:18.000 There's only one Vince.

01:24:19.000 I know that for sure.

01:24:20.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:24:20.000 What a maniac. 1.00

01:24:21.000 Yeah.

01:24:22.000 And with this new union, man, I mean, this is something that I've been talking about for a while, is like the power of and how close the UFC and the WWE can be.

01:24:33.000 But yeah, it's mostly going to be, I picture it being a transfer, almost like a retirement transfer.

01:24:39.000 Party to go to the WWE. I mean imagine what a, you know, Diaz brothers or something like that could do in pro wrestling, slapping people around.

01:24:49.000 Conor McGregor, yeah, these guys.

01:24:51.000 But, you know, I just don't see...

01:24:54.000 Well, I guess there are guys...

01:24:57.000 I'm just wondering if...

01:24:59.000 I know that Dana and Vince...

01:25:03.000 Their contracts have specifically that you can't go to WWE or you can't go to UFC. They're like...

01:25:13.000 Going against each other when they shouldn't be.

01:25:15.000 They should be worried about AEW. WWE should be worried about them and not the UFC. This merger, that's a part of the contract?

01:25:22.000 Or Bellator, you know.

01:25:23.000 No, before the merger.

01:25:25.000 I don't know what's going on now.

01:25:26.000 But in their contracts, you couldn't cross over to UFC. Interesting.

01:25:31.000 UFC couldn't cross over to WWE. Interesting.

01:25:33.000 That's what's crazy.

01:25:35.000 One's MMA and one's wrestling, you know?

01:25:38.000 Yeah, I think Derek Lewis.

01:25:40.000 Oh, yeah.

01:25:41.000 Derrick Lewis.

01:25:42.000 Oh, yeah. 0.97

01:25:43.000 He's the number one heavyweight that I would say could transfer over to WWE and be a fucking huge star. 0.96

01:25:47.000 Oh, yeah. 0.96

01:25:48.000 He's so funny.

01:25:49.000 He's entertaining.

01:25:50.000 Oh, my God.

01:25:50.000 He's entertaining.

01:25:51.000 And he's legit.

01:25:52.000 You know, everybody would know.

01:25:54.000 He's had the most heavyweight knockouts in the history of the sport.

01:25:58.000 And he's funny.

01:26:00.000 He's funny.

01:26:01.000 He's giant.

01:26:02.000 Funny is a big part of it, man.

01:26:03.000 It's a big part of it.

01:26:04.000 I'll tell you what, I think Conor McGregor could have done really well in it, too.

01:26:08.000 He might still, but he's got so much money, it'll be hard. 0.99

01:26:11.000 When a guy's got a half a billion in the bank, it's very hard to get a guy like that to fucking... 0.99

01:26:17.000 Get slammed. 0.99

01:26:18.000 You're not getting him out of bed.

01:26:19.000 Yeah, I mean, that's what's really impressive about some of these guys that go over and do things in the WWE, like Floyd Mayweather went over there, and the Paul brothers.

01:26:32.000 These guys are willing...

01:26:34.000 They're making money hand over fist, and they're going over there.

01:26:36.000 Yeah, they're still willing to get out there and put it all on the line.

01:26:40.000 Well, the thing for the Pauls and...

01:26:42.000 For Logan Paul and for...

01:26:45.000 It's really just Logan, right?

01:26:46.000 Does Jake done WWE? Bad Bunny?

01:26:49.000 Well, yeah, but they can promote their own things as well.

01:26:53.000 So Logan Paul goes out there drinking a prime energy drink.

01:26:56.000 So a Conor could conceivably go out there with a bottle of...

01:27:00.000 Yeah, Proper 12. Yeah.

01:27:02.000 I think he sold that too, though.

01:27:03.000 Oh, okay.

01:27:04.000 But I mean, he's probably still a part of the company, probably in stock or something.

01:27:07.000 He sold it.

01:27:08.000 I think so.

01:27:09.000 I'm pretty sure.

01:27:10.000 Something like that.

01:27:10.000 See if we can find that.

01:27:11.000 I think he got paid. 0.99

01:27:15.000 I think he got fucking paid. 0.99

01:27:17.000 It's everywhere. 1.00

01:27:18.000 I see it everywhere.

01:27:19.000 They got it in there.

01:27:20.000 I've never even tried it.

01:27:21.000 Have you tried it?

01:27:22.000 I don't think so.

01:27:23.000 Here it goes.

01:27:23.000 How much did Conor McGregor sell at Proper 12?

01:27:25.000 600 million.

01:27:26.000 600 million.

01:27:29.000 Cha-ching! 1.00

01:27:30.000 Made $100 million from the Mayweather fight and just started rolling.

01:27:35.000 Wow.

01:27:36.000 It's worth a half a billion dollars.

01:27:38.000 And he's, you know...

01:27:39.000 35?

01:27:41.000 Is that it?

01:27:42.000 That's it.

01:27:43.000 Yeah.

01:27:43.000 I mean, if it wasn't for his leg snap, he's still in the prime of his career.

01:27:47.000 But that leg snap's a real problem.

01:27:49.000 That's a real problem.

01:27:50.000 Yeah, he's not coming back from that, huh?

01:27:52.000 I don't know.

01:27:53.000 I mean, if he does, he'll be the first.

01:27:55.000 And if anybody does, maybe he can do it.

01:27:57.000 If anybody can do it, maybe it's him.

01:27:59.000 Because he snapped his leg in the prime of his career.

01:28:02.000 Anderson was a little older, I believe.

01:28:03.000 He was 36 or 37 when he snapped his leg.

01:28:06.000 Chris Weidman was a little older.

01:28:09.000 It's a hard one to come back from.

01:28:11.000 Nobody really comes back from that one.

01:28:13.000 Is it because you have to have metal put in there?

01:28:16.000 You do.

01:28:17.000 You have to have plates, and then it's also, you've got to think the difference is you're kicking, you know, and you're taking kicks.

01:28:24.000 Like guys are going to kick you in that shin for sure. 0.81

01:28:26.000 They're going to kick you in your calf. 0.95

01:28:27.000 Sprite tissue and everything, yeah. 0.65

01:28:29.000 Nerve damage, all the above.

01:28:31.000 And you gotta think, when that leg snaps, it snaps like that, right?

01:28:36.000 And then you got all that broken bone that's damaging all that tissue inside of it, and I don't know the extent of, you know, how much damage was done, but it's been two years.

01:28:47.000 Right?

01:28:47.000 Is it about two years now?

01:28:49.000 Since he last competed?

01:28:51.000 I believe it's about two years.

01:28:52.000 And, you know, there's all this talk about him and Michael Chandler fighting from the Ultimate Fight.

01:28:57.000 I know he's sparring.

01:28:58.000 I've seen footage of him sparring and he looks good.

01:29:01.000 He looks real good.

01:29:02.000 But he also looks saucer.

01:29:04.000 You know, so there's that.

01:29:06.000 So, like, you gotta get off that.

01:29:08.000 And then there's a six-month period where USADA has to test him randomly, which I think is a mistake.

01:29:18.000 I really think they should do all that in-house.

01:29:20.000 Because USADA does stuff like, well, they don't do it anymore, but they were doing stuff like waking guys up at 6.30 in the morning, like the day of the weigh-ins, and testing them. 0.81

01:29:27.000 It was fucking insane. 0.99

01:29:28.000 Fucking insane. 0.99

01:29:28.000 For world title fights. 0.99

01:29:30.000 Fucking insane. 0.96

01:29:31.000 I just think that if anybody can do it, it's going to be Conor. 0.96

01:29:34.000 If anybody is going to come back from that and fight again, it's going to be Conor.

01:29:38.000 But, you know, it's that famous Marvin Hagler quote.

01:29:42.000 It's, you know, it's hard to get out of bed and run in the cold when you're sleeping in silk sheets. 0.96

01:29:47.000 You know, when you're the champ and you're rich as fuck like he is, and he doesn't have to do nothing forever. 0.97

01:29:53.000 He's got generational wealth. 0.98

01:29:55.000 Oh, yeah.

01:29:56.000 And yet, here we are in a situation where he's still in the prime of his athletic career.

01:30:04.000 He lost that fight to Dustin Poirier, but it was a great fight up until the moment his leg snaps.

01:30:09.000 Well, you know what?

01:30:11.000 He is a different breed, man. 1.00

01:30:12.000 He's a fucking savage. 1.00

01:30:14.000 He's a real savage. 1.00

01:30:15.000 I hope he comes back. 0.99

01:30:17.000 I mean, it would be an amazing story and I would love to see someone actually come back from that injury because so far Weidman, you know, came back and not taking anything away from Brad Tavares because Brad Tavares is a fucking beast. 0.91

01:30:28.000 He looked great in that fight. 0.84

01:30:29.000 He looked so good.

01:30:30.000 But Weidman looked a step behind.

01:30:32.000 But you've got to think Weidman took two years off as well.

01:30:35.000 It's hard.

01:30:36.000 Taking two years off and then jumping right in the heap with a top 15 guy.

01:30:40.000 And a guy like Tavares is a real veteran, is real talented, and real driven too.

01:30:46.000 Super disciplined, always in great shape, always fights well, and is a real good striker.

01:30:51.000 And he was just chewing Weidman up.

01:30:54.000 Weidman just couldn't get off.

01:30:56.000 Wow.

01:30:57.000 It's a bummer.

01:30:58.000 Yeah, it is a bummer. 0.98

01:30:59.000 It's a bummer because that fucking injuries, man, it's like all these other, I mean, so many other injuries guys can come back from. 0.99

01:31:05.000 Soft tissue tears, you get them fixed, you come back. 1.00

01:31:08.000 That one is, that's a motherfucker, man. 1.00

01:31:11.000 I mean, think about it. 1.00

01:31:13.000 You break your leg right in half.

01:31:15.000 Yeah.

01:31:16.000 Frank Mir came back from that.

01:31:17.000 Frank Mir got a motorcycle accident where he got T-boned by a guy who ran a red light.

01:31:23.000 And got sent flying.

01:31:25.000 I think they said he flew like 30 feet through the air.

01:31:28.000 And snapped his femur.

01:31:30.000 So his upper leg.

01:31:31.000 And it took a long time before Frank was like back again.

01:31:36.000 And arguably never really reached the same form that he had.

01:31:40.000 He still beat really good guys though after that.

01:31:43.000 He still beat really good guys.

01:31:44.000 Frank was still a real world class heavyweight after that break.

01:31:48.000 And he might be the only guy now that I think about that's ever come back like that.

01:31:51.000 Right.

01:31:52.000 But everybody, that was, you know, I don't know the extent of that injury.

01:31:55.000 I do know that he had, like, real problems with that leg, though, and there was a real touch-and-go moment where they didn't know if he was going to make it.

01:32:02.000 I mean, you snap a femur, that's that big bone, and there's some blood flow.

01:32:08.000 It's so thick, you know, to snap that thing, you know how hard it is to snap that?

01:32:11.000 Yeah, it's just, when you get in a car, you know, it's a different situation.

01:32:15.000 But it's just...

01:32:16.000 That lower leg snap, apparently it's just very difficult for it to fully heal.

01:32:21.000 It's not like an arm.

01:32:23.000 Like, you break your arm, they put a pin in it, you're good to go.

01:32:25.000 I know a lot of guys who broke their forearms, and they went back, and Paul Felder, a lot of guys, they get their forearms snapped like blocking a kick, and they get back in there, and they're okay.

01:32:34.000 There's a difference.

01:32:35.000 You know, you walk on your legs.

01:32:37.000 Big difference.

01:32:38.000 Big difference.

01:32:38.000 You don't walk on your hands.

01:32:39.000 Right.

01:32:40.000 Yeah.

01:32:40.000 And, I mean, that's the argument also for him not being in the USADA pool.

01:32:44.000 Of course.

01:32:45.000 I mean, if anybody shouldn't be in the U.S. Auto Bowl, like, yeah, get him out of that.

01:32:49.000 Like, let him do everything he can to come back, especially in the prime of his athletic career.

01:32:55.000 I mean, that's...

01:32:56.000 And also, there's a real problem where they're stopping guys from taking things like BPC-157.

01:33:02.000 All that stuff does is let you heal.

01:33:04.000 Right, right.

01:33:04.000 It's like, you know, it's just letting you heal.

01:33:07.000 You need things to let you heal.

01:33:07.000 So that's on the ban list.

01:33:09.000 It is now.

01:33:09.000 I think they're trying to bring it back.

01:33:11.000 You ever use that?

01:33:13.000 No.

01:33:13.000 I use it.

01:33:14.000 It's great.

01:33:14.000 It's fantastic.

01:33:15.000 It's very good.

01:33:16.000 Very good when you get injured.

01:33:17.000 You'd probably love it.

01:33:19.000 I need to hear more about this.

01:33:21.000 They call it the Wolverine drug?

01:33:23.000 Is that what it's called?

01:33:24.000 Yeah, it's a peptide, essentially.

01:33:25.000 It's called Body Protection Peptide 157. Body Protection Peptide Calm Town.

01:33:31.000 It's a really good peptide for healing injuries.

01:33:36.000 A lot of people have very good success with it.

01:33:38.000 So a lot of people recover from injuries.

01:33:39.000 I can connect you with someone who can take care of that for you, too.

01:33:44.000 You know, I don't know.

01:33:45.000 I think athletes should be able to use everything they can, especially in a sport like MMA. I agree.

01:33:51.000 Everything they can.

01:33:52.000 But, you know, the problem was it used to be they used to be able to do testosterone.

01:33:55.000 Well, I think they should still do it.

01:33:58.000 I do too.

01:33:59.000 I think it's a good...

01:33:59.000 Well, the thing is, like...

01:34:01.000 With testosterone, you can take a guy who's an older athlete, who has an older mind, who thinks like a veteran.

01:34:10.000 They really understand the game.

01:34:12.000 Because a lot of those guys, by the time they get to that certain age, they think real well.

01:34:17.000 They understand the game better.

01:34:18.000 They're more mature.

01:34:19.000 But their body just doesn't work the same anymore.

01:34:21.000 They're a step behind.

01:34:21.000 They don't have testosterone in their bodies anymore.

01:34:23.000 Exactly.

01:34:24.000 And also, especially fighting.

01:34:26.000 With fighting, with football, with a lot of things, those knocks to the head There's a guy named Dr. Mark Gordon who's a friend of mine who specializes in traumatic brain injuries.

01:34:35.000 And he says one of the real problems is you get damage to your pituitary gland.

01:34:39.000 So the damage to the pituitary gland from getting knocked in the head a bunch of times is your body's just not producing testosterone anymore or other hormones.

01:34:47.000 And your body's just like very deficient in hormones, which makes those guys depressed too.

01:34:52.000 So they're dealing with all that.

01:34:54.000 They're dealing with depression.

01:34:55.000 They're dealing with...

01:34:56.000 You know, fatigue all the time, and it's just like...

01:35:00.000 But the problem is with fighters, you tell them they can take testosterone, some of them, they go VTored out.

01:35:05.000 Oh, yeah.

01:35:06.000 Like, when VTor was in his prime, I still, to this day, think that the TRT VTor was one of the greatest fighters of all time. 0.99

01:35:14.000 When he was juiced to the tits, he would come out there like a fucking alien and just attack. 0.98

01:35:18.000 He was so confident, too, because he was just so juicy. 1.00

01:35:21.000 Yeah.

01:35:22.000 He was juiced up.

01:35:23.000 And so skilled.

01:35:24.000 It was a combination of those things.

01:35:26.000 So he's an older athlete.

01:35:27.000 So he had been fighting.

01:35:29.000 I mean, I was at the first UFC that Vitor fought at in UFC 12. I was actually training at the same gym as him.

01:35:35.000 I was at Carlson Gracie.

01:35:37.000 Carlson Gracie's gym in Hollywood.

01:35:40.000 Vitor was 19 years old when he went over and he fought John Hess in Hawaii. 0.98

01:35:44.000 And everybody was like, holy shit, look at this guy. 0.97

01:35:47.000 We knew. 0.98

01:35:48.000 Like, all the guys in the gym knew, like, Vitor was the future.

01:35:51.000 And then, you know, when he gets older, you know, it's like your body's slowing down.

01:35:55.000 And also, he did a lot of stuff when he was younger, too, and that limits your natural production of testosterone.

01:36:01.000 So as soon as they start telling you, you know, like, you've got to fight on the natch, everything's just slower.

01:36:08.000 You know what?

01:36:10.000 When you get older, you lose testosterone.

01:36:12.000 Now, I'm on a program right now, my wellness doctor, that I'm on the level of testosterone that I was when I was 30 years old.

01:36:22.000 So he only gives me a certain amount.

01:36:24.000 I take a half a cc of testosterone a week to keep my testosterone at the level that it should be.

01:36:31.000 I'm not going above and beyond and trying to abuse it.

01:36:36.000 So I take a half a shot of test a week just to keep my testosterone at the right level.

01:36:42.000 Between 600 and 800, I think is what it is.

01:36:44.000 That's a good level.

01:36:45.000 I do the same.

01:36:47.000 Yeah, and that allows you to function.

01:36:49.000 Your body functions like a young man.

01:36:51.000 Like, I'm 56 years old.

01:36:52.000 I don't have any problems in terms of, like, my body working well.

01:36:55.000 Yeah, me neither.

01:36:56.000 I mean, except for my injuries.

01:36:58.000 Yeah, except for your injuries.

01:36:59.000 But other than that, it keeps your energy level.

01:37:01.000 It also helps your immune system.

01:37:03.000 A lot of people have it in their head that it's cheating, right? 0.99

01:37:07.000 They think about Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa and all that shit and getting busted. 0.97

01:37:12.000 You know, they think it's got a negative connotation in a lot of people's minds that testosterone placement is, oh, you're doing steroids, you're cheating. 0.94

01:37:20.000 But if you're intelligent about it and if you do it with a good doctor and you get your blood work done and you don't abuse it, it's very good for you.

01:37:27.000 It is.

01:37:28.000 It is.

01:37:28.000 And that's why I do it.

01:37:30.000 Yeah, me as well.

01:37:31.000 And I condone anybody.

01:37:34.000 Out there that's in their 40s or 50s that's, you know, doesn't have a lot of energy and was wondering what's going on, go get tested.

01:37:42.000 It would be good if they did it with fighters if, like, the UFC administered it.

01:37:49.000 Like, you can't administer it on your own. 0.96

01:37:51.000 They have to randomly test you to make sure you're not fucking off and doing something crazy. 0.80

01:37:54.000 But, like, this is the amount you get. 0.93

01:37:56.000 Let's make sure that your blood work stays within this very normal line.

01:38:00.000 In that parameter.

01:38:00.000 Yeah.

01:38:01.000 Right, so you're not cheating.

01:38:02.000 You're just maintaining.

01:38:03.000 Exactly.

01:38:04.000 That would be a good call.

01:38:05.000 But it's just hard to regulate, especially you got guys who are, you know, they're in Russia, they're in Thailand, they're trained, you know, you gotta send people over there to test them.

01:38:16.000 You see them over in Thailand, they look like a human pit bull. 1.00

01:38:22.000 But the thing is, if you're on that stuff like that, my god, you could train fucking three times a day. 0.92

01:38:28.000 If you really go crazy with the test, like Alistair Overeem in his prime, like that guy, he's my favorite example. 0.88

01:38:37.000 Alistair Overeem when he fought Brock.

01:38:39.000 Jesus Christ.

01:38:40.000 Oh my God.

01:38:41.000 Jesus Christ.

01:38:42.000 He was so juicy.

01:38:43.000 But he was so good, too.

01:38:45.000 He's so skilled.

01:38:46.000 It wasn't just a guy on juice.

01:38:48.000 It's a guy on juice who was a K-1 Grand Prix champion who has also won the Abu Dhabi.

01:38:54.000 Have you seen him now?

01:38:56.000 Alistair now is a vegan.

01:38:59.000 He lost 60 pounds of muscle. 0.99

01:39:02.000 Yeah, he looks like fucking Kurt Metzger. 1.00

01:39:05.000 Oh my god. 0.99

01:39:09.000 See if you can find Alistair over him now.

01:39:12.000 He's lost so much weight.

01:39:14.000 It's crazy.

01:39:14.000 And he only eats vegetables now.

01:39:16.000 No, no meat.

01:39:17.000 He's like, meat is bad for you.

01:39:19.000 I'm like, no, it's not.

01:39:20.000 Who are you talking to?

01:39:21.000 Oh, man. 0.98

01:39:21.000 Let me get you some really good scientists that fucking actually understand nutrition. 0.98

01:39:26.000 He's talking to some fucking kook in Holland who's got wooden beads around his neck. 1.00

01:39:30.000 Look at him now. 1.00

01:39:30.000 Oh, my gosh. 1.00

01:39:32.000 That's not the same person.

01:39:33.000 It's not the same person.

01:39:34.000 I mean, I think he's probably natural now.

01:39:36.000 I mean, also, maybe, look at Phineas. 1.00

01:39:38.000 I think you just kind of get tired of being a fucking assassin. 0.99

01:39:42.000 You just want to be a nice guy. 1.00

01:39:44.000 Yeah.

01:39:45.000 You're like, I'm done!

01:39:47.000 I'm tired of braining people. 0.99

01:39:49.000 I mean, you know, Alistair was fucking kicking people in the face and knocking their teeth out for 30 fucking years. 0.99

01:39:55.000 He was a vicious fighter. 0.99

01:39:57.000 You've got to think, he's still competing up until recently.

01:39:59.000 He fought Chuck Liddell in Pride in, like, 2004 or something like that?

01:40:05.000 I know, almost 20 years ago.

01:40:06.000 Yeah.

01:40:07.000 Is this him now?

01:40:08.000 This is 16 weeks ago.

01:40:10.000 It was around his birthday, so...

01:40:12.000 Well, he looks good there.

01:40:13.000 Yeah, he's just not gigantic.

01:40:15.000 Yeah, he looks lighter.

01:40:16.000 I mean, he's a lot lighter.

01:40:17.000 Now, go to Aleister Overeem weighing in for the Brock Lesnar fight.

01:40:22.000 Because that's crazy.

01:40:24.000 That's him right there.

01:40:25.000 Look at that!

01:40:26.000 Look at that!

01:40:28.000 Jesus Christ!

01:40:30.000 Jesus!

01:40:30.000 I'm in awe.

01:40:31.000 Look at me behind him.

01:40:32.000 I'm like, Jesus!

01:40:34.000 That's Uberim.

01:40:35.000 That's when he was at his prime. 1.00

01:40:36.000 He was a fucking destroyer. 1.00

01:40:38.000 I swear to God, if they never outlawed testosterone, here's what you're smashing people. 1.00

01:40:43.000 This is when he was in K1. Bro, he was a fucking monster. 1.00

01:40:47.000 He was a monster. 1.00

01:40:48.000 Because he was huge, he was powerful and fast, but he was also supremely skilled.

01:40:54.000 He was a real elite striker.

01:40:56.000 I'm just surprised anybody could beat him.

01:40:59.000 Well, you know, he put it on the line.

01:41:01.000 He fought everybody.

01:41:02.000 He fought Badr Hari when Badr Hari was in his prime, knocked Badr Hari out, and then Badr Hari knocked him out in the rematch.

01:41:08.000 Those guys got knocked out a lot, and that's part of the problem.

01:41:12.000 If you look through Alistair's career, I don't know how many times Chuck knocked him out.

01:41:16.000 I don't know how many times he got knocked out.

01:41:18.000 Francis Ngannou knocked him into veganism.

01:41:23.000 Bro, he sent him to the Darklands.

01:41:25.000 Oh, we were there for that one.

01:41:27.000 And it's different, you know, sometimes it's different not on TV. Yeah.

01:41:32.000 When you're there and you physically watch somebody's head go backwards like that.

01:41:36.000 And their soul leave their body. 0.99

01:41:37.000 Oh my, that's one of the all-time fucking ones. 0.99

01:41:40.000 Did you see that knockout? 0.99

01:41:40.000 No, I did. 0.99

01:41:40.000 Okay, fine. 0.99

01:41:41.000 Francis Ngannou knocks out Alistair Overeem.

01:41:44.000 And by the way, this is Alistair Overeem post-USADA, right?

01:41:47.000 So this is a different Alistair.

01:41:48.000 This is Alistair natural.

01:41:50.000 Gotcha.

01:41:51.000 And also natural after taking supplements for who knows how long.

01:41:55.000 He was still a big guy, but look how small he is in comparison.

01:41:58.000 And Francis is a natural 265+.

01:42:01.000 Francis has to cut weight to make 265. Francis is fucking huge and also the absolute scariest fucking guy to ever compete in the heavyweight division. 0.99

01:42:12.000 Francis fucking scared everybody. 1.00

01:42:14.000 He is a badass. 1.00

01:42:15.000 Oh, he's so good and his fucking knockout power is so ridiculous. 1.00

01:42:18.000 He's such a heavy striker. 1.00

01:42:21.000 Here it is.

01:42:21.000 Boom!

01:42:22.000 Boom! 0.99

01:42:24.000 Now, did he ever fight Jon Jones?

01:42:27.000 No, he didn't.

01:42:28.000 But he might still.

01:42:30.000 They've left that door open.

01:42:32.000 Francis is actually coming in soon.

01:42:33.000 And I'm going to talk to him about this.

01:42:35.000 Because I think, watch this.

01:42:37.000 Look at this left hook.

01:42:38.000 Boom! 0.99

01:42:41.000 I mean, insane.

01:42:42.000 His head snaps back to where he's looking at his heels.

01:42:47.000 Look how far his head snaps back.

01:42:48.000 Oh, God.

01:42:49.000 You ever been knocked out?

01:42:50.000 Not out cold.

01:42:51.000 I got TKO'd in my last kickboxing fight, but I've never been knocked out like that.

01:42:57.000 I've seen a lot of people.

01:42:59.000 It's got to be a scary situation when you wake up and come to.

01:43:03.000 There's one where I got knocked out.

01:43:05.000 Is this one right here?

01:43:06.000 Yeah, the table gave too early and my head hit the concrete floor.

01:43:09.000 Oh, God!

01:43:10.000 Oh, God!

01:43:11.000 My hands were behind my back.

01:43:12.000 I was on Loopy Street.

01:43:15.000 Look, I start trying to get up and Hunter's gonna pull me back down.

01:43:19.000 Like, he wanted me to stay there.

01:43:21.000 He was snoring.

01:43:22.000 Yeah, and so what happened was...

01:43:26.000 Okay, this has been fast-forwarded, but what happened was I was supposed to pretend to get knocked out.

01:43:33.000 That's why we did the thing on the table.

01:43:35.000 So it was supposed to be a pretend spot, so I'd get taken to the back, and then I was supposed to come back to finish the match.

01:43:43.000 You know what's crazy?

01:43:44.000 Is that you guys use regular tables. 1.00

01:43:46.000 Don't you think you should use a fucking wrestling table? 0.99

01:43:48.000 Shouldn't someone design a table that can take... 1.00

01:43:52.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.99

01:43:52.000 The kind of fucking weight that you guys catch? 0.99

01:43:54.000 No, no, you're right. 1.00

01:43:54.000 You guys have regular conference tables from Costco. 1.00

01:43:57.000 They're just rolling at fucking regular tables. 0.99

01:44:00.000 Hey, that's wrestling, man. 0.99

01:44:01.000 Yeah.

01:44:02.000 They don't spare any expense.

01:44:04.000 They just use what they have.

01:44:05.000 So did you wake up and realize what was happening?

01:44:07.000 All right.

01:44:08.000 I don't remember any of it.

01:44:10.000 What happened was they wheeled me back, and Rock and Triple H were out there still wrestling because it was a triple threat match.

01:44:17.000 I was part of it.

01:44:19.000 And they wheeled me back, and I'm back there.

01:44:22.000 And they're getting ready to do a live shot of me.

01:44:26.000 They're getting ready to do a live shot of me where I was gonna tell them, Stephanie was gonna say, Kurt, I want you to go out and help Triple H. Do it for me.

01:44:34.000 And I was gonna say, all right, I'll do it for you, Steph.

01:44:37.000 So they told me to say it, and I forgot.

01:44:40.000 So I said, what am I saying again?

01:44:41.000 And Stephanie said, just say, I'll do it for you.

01:44:44.000 I said, what am I saying again?

01:44:46.000 I did this like eight times.

01:44:48.000 And Vince is in the background.

01:44:49.000 He's like, goddammit, get him some smelling salts and get him out there.

01:44:52.000 So I end up going back out.

01:44:55.000 And I don't remember.

01:44:57.000 I don't remember any of it.

01:44:58.000 They carried me through the match.

01:45:00.000 And there were spots where I had to duck.

01:45:02.000 And they actually pulled my head down and would hit somebody else when I was supposed to duck.

01:45:08.000 I wasn't able to do it.

01:45:11.000 So I was out there just...

01:45:14.000 You know, being a dead human being, you know?

01:45:17.000 And they're like pulling me around and they're...

01:45:19.000 In pro wrestling, you can still have a match even if one person is incoherent.

01:45:25.000 So the other person carries that person and tells them to do whatever.

01:45:30.000 So they were telling me what to do during that match.

01:45:33.000 But I don't remember anything.

01:45:34.000 I ended up in the hospital that night and I came to and said, what happened?

01:45:38.000 They said, oh God, you don't remember anything?

01:45:40.000 Then I said, no, I don't remember anything.

01:45:42.000 They should have probably taken you to the hospital immediately, which is what's crazy about pro wrestling.

01:45:47.000 I'm like, no, no, no, the show must go on.

01:45:50.000 Well, listen, that wouldn't happen now.

01:45:52.000 This was in the 2000s.

01:45:54.000 It was a different time.

01:45:56.000 That's what's crazy is that they really didn't understand head trauma until, I mean really that movie, Concussion, when that movie came around then people started looking at like what's going on with football players and what's going on with boxers and they really started looking at it more differently.

01:46:12.000 You know what, I'm wondering if, you know, they're starting to like, like pro wrestling has this, what's it called, a concussion roll, okay?

01:46:23.000 So if you had concussions, they'll take care of it.

01:46:29.000 So what I'm saying is, don't you think UFC... That a lot of their fighters are going to end up with some kind of brain damage?

01:46:39.000 100%.

01:46:40.000 And that there's going to be some liability that comes out?

01:46:42.000 Well, I don't know if there's going to be some...

01:46:44.000 I'm just wondering if something like that is going to happen because these guys don't use gloves.

01:46:50.000 They...

01:46:50.000 You know, they got the small ones.

01:46:52.000 Well, not only that, you're getting kicked. 0.99

01:46:53.000 Yeah, kicked in the head, yeah. 0.99

01:46:55.000 Yeah, you're getting kicked, kneed, you're getting slammed in your head. 0.91

01:46:58.000 You see all the damage that's done in boxing. 0.64

01:47:00.000 Yes.

01:47:00.000 And, I mean, UFC is, MMA is probably worse.

01:47:04.000 Think about when Leon Edwards knocked out Kamaru Usman.

01:47:07.000 Think about that kind of a strike.

01:47:08.000 You're getting head kicked by one of the greatest strikers to ever do in sport. 0.99

01:47:12.000 Might as well get hit in the head with a baseball bat. 0.99

01:47:14.000 Might as well. 1.00

01:47:15.000 A leg of an athlete like that is...

01:47:17.000 Just as hard as a wooden bat.

01:47:19.000 It's just bone.

01:47:20.000 You're getting bone, shin bone, right to your neck.

01:47:23.000 You know, it's crazy.

01:47:24.000 And, you know, who knows?

01:47:26.000 I mean, they do their best to mitigate some of that in training, but some guys don't.

01:47:32.000 Some guys spar real hard in training.

01:47:33.000 And it's part of the sport.

01:47:38.000 And they know it coming in, and there's no denying it.

01:47:42.000 You're literally in the brain damage business.

01:47:44.000 Here it is.

01:47:45.000 Boom! 0.99

01:47:46.000 Oh, jeez.

01:47:47.000 And when you know how good Camaro takes a shot, to see Camaro go out like that is just nuts.

01:47:52.000 Now, what kind of long-term damage do you think that just occurred to that guy?

01:47:56.000 It's a real good question.

01:47:57.000 And it varies with everyone.

01:47:59.000 There's some guys that got knocked out a bunch of times and they're fine.

01:48:02.000 There's a thing called, I think it's called APOE4. There's like a gene expression that if you have that, you're more susceptible to CTE than other people.

01:48:13.000 And it's different.

01:48:15.000 But it doesn't mean that you're immune to it if you don't have it. 0.66

01:48:18.000 I mean, you're getting kicked and punched.

01:48:22.000 Headbutts, guys clash heads all the time.

01:48:24.000 It's a very, very, very hard sport.

01:48:27.000 And without doubt, there's going to be guys who the rest of their lives are dealing with the consequences of that.

01:48:33.000 And we see it.

01:48:34.000 We see it with the older fighters.

01:48:36.000 Some of these guys are just in complete agony.

01:48:39.000 Like Don Frye.

01:48:40.000 Don the Predator Frye is a legend.

01:48:41.000 One of the greatest ever.

01:48:43.000 Don was in here.

01:48:44.000 I mean, he's hurt, man.

01:48:45.000 It's hard for him to walk.

01:48:47.000 It's like everything is in pain.

01:48:49.000 He can't hardly move that good.

01:48:50.000 You're talking about an old-school fighter.

01:48:52.000 That guy was a badass. 1.00

01:48:54.000 He's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

01:48:56.000 He's a real old-school man. 1.00

01:48:57.000 He's there at the beginning.

01:48:58.000 Yeah.

01:48:58.000 Oh, yeah.

01:48:59.000 The very, very, very early days.

01:49:02.000 Mark Coleman, too.

01:49:03.000 Mark Coleman's got a celebrity boxing match in October against Montel Griffin.

01:49:09.000 Montel Griffin fought Roy Jones Jr. Is that why Mark's been training?

01:49:14.000 Okay.

01:49:15.000 Yeah.

01:49:16.000 Hammer House for life! 0.98

01:49:18.000 Yeah, if you watch his Instagram, he's a maniac. 0.98

01:49:19.000 You know what?

01:49:20.000 He was one of my opponents to make the Olympics.

01:49:22.000 Was he really?

01:49:23.000 Yeah, him and Mark Kerr.

01:49:24.000 Oh, wow. 0.65

01:49:25.000 Yeah, they were badasses.

01:49:27.000 Those two gave me the worst problems in 1993 and 1994. Really?

01:49:31.000 They're the ones that were beating me, and then I ended up beating them in 95, 96, but...

01:49:38.000 I went through, if you saw my documentary, it's about my training and what I did.

01:49:45.000 What I was doing was exhaust training.

01:49:47.000 That's when you train until you're exhausted and that's when the training actually begins.

01:49:50.000 And it's almost a form of torture.

01:49:53.000 I learned it from the University of Iowa.

01:49:55.000 Head wrestling coach Dan Gable. 1.00

01:49:56.000 Dan Gable's a fucking man. 1.00

01:49:57.000 He taught us wrestlers this. 1.00

01:49:59.000 And it's about staying in someone's face and just keep going at it.

01:50:02.000 Just never back off.

01:50:04.000 Just stay in there and just keep hand fighting and keep attacking.

01:50:08.000 And that's what I was doing.

01:50:09.000 I was staying on my opponents and getting them tired.

01:50:12.000 Once they got tired, I was scoring.

01:50:14.000 And so I wasn't the biggest or the fastest or the strongest or the most technical.

01:50:18.000 But what I knew I could be is the most well conditioned.

01:50:21.000 Here it is.

01:50:23.000 This is Kerr.

01:50:24.000 This is Mark Kerr.

01:50:25.000 Wow.

01:50:26.000 This is Mark Kerr when he was a normal size.

01:50:28.000 Yeah.

01:50:29.000 Mark Kerr went on to fight in the UFC and went on to fight in Pride.

01:50:33.000 Oh, my God.

01:50:34.000 Oh, the Smashing Machine.

01:50:35.000 When he was the Smashing Machine, yeah.

01:50:36.000 That documentary is insane.

01:50:38.000 Have you seen that?

01:50:39.000 Yeah, I did.

01:50:40.000 The documentary on Kerr?

01:50:41.000 I did.

01:50:42.000 Mark Kerr submitted Dan Bobish in the UFC. I was there for this fight.

01:50:46.000 He got on top of him and he stuck his chin in Bobish's eye socket. 0.99

01:50:53.000 Grabbed the back of his head and drove his fucking chin into his eye socket. 0.99

01:50:57.000 And he has his pointing chin too, man. 1.00

01:51:00.000 And he was just a giant of a man.

01:51:03.000 He is.

01:51:03.000 Show Mark Kerr in his prime.

01:51:06.000 I mean, his trap started at the top of his ears.

01:51:09.000 I know. 0.92

01:51:09.000 He was an animal. 0.92

01:51:10.000 He was so fucking huge. 0.99

01:51:12.000 He got, listen, by the time 96 came around, he didn't look like that anymore. 0.99

01:51:16.000 He was like 250. And he wasn't that big.

01:51:22.000 He wasn't that big.

01:51:22.000 Look at the size of him, bro.

01:51:24.000 He's got to be 300 pounds there. 0.78

01:51:25.000 He was a monster. 0.95

01:51:26.000 He was a monster. 1.00

01:51:28.000 And then he was a monster in pride. 0.99

01:51:29.000 He was such a machine.

01:51:31.000 But he's another guy who fell victim to pain pills.

01:51:35.000 And what's crazy about that documentary, The Smashing Machine, is they caught him in his prime and what they were documenting in that documentary was a guy who was like this unstoppable force.

01:51:47.000 They didn't know.

01:51:48.000 That he was at the verge of collapse.

01:51:50.000 They didn't know that he was in the middle of his pain addiction.

01:51:52.000 Oh, they were just doing the documentary because of how dominant he was.

01:51:57.000 Yes.

01:51:57.000 Wow.

01:51:57.000 Yes.

01:51:58.000 The documentary originally was just about this guy who was this unstoppable force who was competing in Japan in the height of pride.

01:52:05.000 In the height of pride, they were doing this, like, Japan is so different. 0.92

01:52:10.000 When we have the UFC in Japan, they're so knowledgeable and so respectful.

01:52:14.000 It's such a part of the culture.

01:52:16.000 That, you know, the matches were huge.

01:52:20.000 They did the Saitama Super Arena.

01:52:22.000 It was 90,000 people.

01:52:24.000 And that was when Kerr was in his prime.

01:52:26.000 So what they were documenting was this guy from America, this insane wrestler, this gigantic man that they called a smashing machine, going over there and dominating.

01:52:35.000 And they caught him right when it was all falling apart.

01:52:38.000 Oh.

01:52:38.000 And that's where the story changed, right?

01:52:41.000 Yes, and that's the documentary.

01:52:43.000 And it is about pain pills.

01:52:45.000 It's about pain medication.

01:52:46.000 I think he was on a bunch of different things.

01:52:48.000 But it was just dealing with the constant injuries.

01:52:51.000 He was the most talented individual I've ever stepped on the mat with.

01:52:55.000 I mean, he was really good.

01:52:57.000 Really?

01:52:57.000 Really good, yeah.

01:52:58.000 Yeah, he won the NCAAs at 190 my senior year.

01:53:02.000 I wanted heavyweight.

01:53:04.000 And then he moved up to my weight class.

01:53:06.000 Wow.

01:53:07.000 Yeah.

01:53:08.000 He just kept getting bigger and bigger.

01:53:09.000 I mean...

01:53:11.000 Kid's 6'4", so he had a lot of range.

01:53:13.000 Long arms.

01:53:15.000 You knew he could fill in.

01:53:16.000 I didn't know he was going to end up being 310 pounds.

01:53:19.000 Yeah, and then back then, you were either going to go into pro wrestling or you were going to go into MMA. And back then in MMA, Mark was competing in the early days, a bare knuckle.

01:53:30.000 You bare knuckle, wearing wrestling shoes, and Coleman as well, with headbutts.

01:53:36.000 That was the other thing back then.

01:53:37.000 Yeah, they were legal.

01:53:38.000 Yeah, headbutts were legal. 0.88

01:53:39.000 I wonder if you could still do that eye socket move.

01:53:42.000 I don't even know if that's illegal.

01:53:43.000 I've never seen anybody do that since.

01:53:46.000 See if you can find that.

01:53:47.000 Mark Kerr submits Dan Bobish.

01:53:50.000 Did he submit him with it?

01:53:51.000 Yes.

01:53:51.000 Oh, he tapped him.

01:53:52.000 Yes.

01:53:53.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

01:53:53.000 He tapped him with a fucking chin to the eye socket. 1.00

01:53:56.000 By the way, Bobish was fucking huge, too. 1.00

01:53:59.000 Bobish was a giant of a man. 0.96

01:54:01.000 So for him to do that to Bobish, but Bobish is just not that level of wrestler.

01:54:05.000 When you get that big, I mean, there's big, and then there's that big, but also talented.

01:54:11.000 And that was Mark Kerr.

01:54:12.000 That big...

01:54:13.000 He had like a head arm and drove his chin in?

01:54:16.000 I want to say he mounted him.

01:54:18.000 I think he mounted him.

01:54:20.000 So here he is.

01:54:21.000 No, side control. 0.97

01:54:22.000 So he got on top of him, shoved his chin in his eye socket and just fucking drove it in there and tapped him. 0.99

01:54:28.000 I mean, the guy's in fucking agony. 0.99

01:54:31.000 Wow. 0.99

01:54:31.000 And you look at the size of Bobish. 0.99

01:54:33.000 Bobish is fucking huge too. 0.99

01:54:34.000 He's selling his eye too. 1.00

01:54:35.000 Look at Kerr.

01:54:37.000 Jesus Christ.

01:54:38.000 Oh, he does have a scary chin.

01:54:40.000 Yeah, he just shoved that thing right in his eye socket.

01:54:44.000 I don't think anyone's ever done that since.

01:54:46.000 A Leno choke.

01:54:47.000 It wasn't a choke man.

01:54:50.000 I lost a lot of sleep over this guy.

01:54:52.000 Look at this.

01:55:05.000 Look at that.

01:55:06.000 Early days.

01:55:07.000 So I guess he was wearing gloves in this one.

01:55:08.000 But when he started, he definitely was in the no-glove stage.

01:55:12.000 Who started first, Kerr or Coleman?

01:55:14.000 Well, Coleman was the first ever UFC heavyweight champion.

01:55:17.000 Okay.

01:55:18.000 Coleman beat Dan Severn, and that was in 1997. That was the first UFC that I worked.

01:55:24.000 Is that when you made him tap out with a headlock?

01:55:25.000 That's how strong Coleman was.

01:55:26.000 Yes, he was very strong.

01:55:28.000 He got him in like a judo, like a head and arm.

01:55:33.000 Yeah.

01:55:33.000 So it was a choke, but, you know, it was a power choke.

01:55:37.000 So what he did is he basically got head and arm inside control and got a hold of him.

01:55:42.000 See if you can find that.

01:55:44.000 Dan Severn, Mark Coleman.

01:55:45.000 To me, it looked like a headlock, and he was like, I know how strong he is.

01:55:49.000 Yeah.

01:55:49.000 So I was like, I would probably tap out to him.

01:55:52.000 Yeah, it was a headlock, but he had him completely trapped in there. 0.99

01:55:56.000 And that's Coleman in his fucking prime. 0.99

01:55:59.000 He had a stint with alcohol, too. 0.99

01:56:01.000 He's been sober for a while.

01:56:02.000 Yeah, and he talks about that.

01:56:05.000 That's another big thing about his...

01:56:07.000 That's bare knuckle, too.

01:56:09.000 You see, he's got no gloves on.

01:56:11.000 Both guys have no gloves on.

01:56:13.000 So he got him down.

01:56:15.000 And by the way, Dan Severin was a hell of a wrestler as well.

01:56:18.000 I wrestled Dan.

01:56:19.000 I wrestled Dan.

01:56:20.000 It was my freshman year in college.

01:56:22.000 He was about 28 at the time.

01:56:24.000 I was 10 years younger than him.

01:56:27.000 Yeah, there it is right there where you just had it, Jamie.

01:56:31.000 Well, you got it right there.

01:56:33.000 So he gets him this.

01:56:34.000 So he gets him in this, like, side control head choke.

01:56:39.000 That'll do it.

01:56:40.000 And it's really like a neck crank he got him in.

01:56:43.000 This was the first UFC that I worked at.

01:56:46.000 I never wrestled a guy as strong as Coleman.

01:56:49.000 He was such a...

01:56:50.000 He was so strong.

01:56:52.000 I knew he was going to tap out here.

01:56:55.000 I watched his fight the night it happened.

01:56:57.000 Yeah, look at him.

01:56:57.000 He's crushing him.

01:56:59.000 I know how strong Coleman is.

01:57:01.000 You can see Dan Severn's arm is almost like green.

01:57:04.000 There's just no blood getting there.

01:57:06.000 Well, this is a legit joke, too.

01:57:09.000 If you can get a guy's arm trapped like that in between your thigh and his hand and with the amount of weight that Mark had...

01:57:16.000 And he's just pressing down on him.

01:57:18.000 And that pressure.

01:57:19.000 The more he steps that way, the tighter it gets. 1.00

01:57:22.000 Yeah, Dan's fucked. 1.00

01:57:23.000 Oh. 1.00

01:57:25.000 I remember in Carlson Gracie's after this fight, look, he's poking him in the eyes.

01:57:30.000 God!

01:57:30.000 Yeah.

01:57:31.000 He tapped right there.

01:57:32.000 That was it.

01:57:34.000 And that was how Coleman became the first ever UFC heavyweight champion.

01:57:39.000 Wow.

01:57:40.000 That was, uh...

01:57:42.000 UFC 12. And I had to go and interview him afterwards.

01:57:45.000 He was like, who the fuck are you? 1.00

01:57:47.000 Just jacked out of his mind. 1.00

01:57:49.000 It was me interviewing him.

01:57:53.000 Mark, we can get a couple words of you.

01:57:55.000 Congratulations.

01:57:56.000 Unbelievable, impressive performance.

01:57:59.000 Thank you.

01:58:01.000 He's the first guy I ever interviewed.

01:58:03.000 ...for you to win the first super fight where two wrestlers meet in the finals.

01:58:08.000 Very important, huh?

01:58:10.000 Look at the size of him, dude.

01:58:15.000 It's amazing that he wrestled at 220 pounds.

01:58:18.000 I think he was still competing in wrestling at the time, too, or wanted to compete in wrestling.

01:58:23.000 Wait a minute.

01:58:24.000 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:58:24.000 What year was this?

01:58:25.000 97. This was a year after.

01:58:27.000 His last competition was 96. He was 32 at the time.

01:58:31.000 So you said you wrestled him when he was 28 and you were?

01:58:35.000 Seven.

01:58:36.000 I wrestled.

01:58:36.000 And what happened there?

01:58:37.000 He beat me 1-0.

01:58:39.000 It was a college match.

01:58:41.000 I was a freshman in high school.

01:58:42.000 I was 18. He was 28. He was already on the USA team.

01:58:46.000 So I'd say I did pretty good for a young upcoming kid.

01:58:50.000 He's 28, but he still has that full mustache probably.

01:58:52.000 Yeah, yeah, he did.

01:58:53.000 That mustache is amazing.

01:58:54.000 But I wrestled Coleman quite a bit, man.

01:58:57.000 We beat each other quite a few times, but...

01:58:59.000 We went at it for a while, but it was really cool to see these guys having success in UFC. I mean, this is when I won the Olympics, and I was kind of bragging rights, you know, I beat these guys to win the UFC title.

01:59:12.000 Well, people talked about that, too, because back then you were brought up a lot, like people were saying, because there was some talk, like, would Kurt Angle ever fight in the UFC? In the early days of the UFC, there was a lot of that, because there was quite a few guys that did Royce Alger, Yeah,

01:59:28.000 Royce tried it out, I know that.

01:59:30.000 Quite a few real elite wrestlers that competed in the UFC, and that skill set is the best skill set for MMA. When you dictate where the fight takes place, because if that guy wanted to take you down, he's taking you down.

01:59:44.000 Back then, the guys just did not have the ability.

01:59:47.000 There were so many karate guys and so many jiu-jitsu guys, they just did not have the ability to stop that guy from taking him down.

01:59:52.000 I mean, you look at Khabib, how scary. 1.00

01:59:54.000 He gets you down.

01:59:55.000 He puts his legs underneath your legs. 0.60

01:59:58.000 Now you have nowhere to go.

02:00:00.000 There's no standing up.

02:00:01.000 There's no jujitsu where there's no option like that.

02:00:04.000 Like, jujitsu...

02:00:06.000 I did a competition called The Contenders.

02:00:09.000 Do you remember that?

02:00:09.000 Yes.

02:00:10.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:00:10.000 Okay, so it was jujitsu versus wrestling.

02:00:12.000 Yeah, I remember that.

02:00:14.000 Wrestling didn't do that well.

02:00:16.000 Well, because they didn't understand submissions.

02:00:17.000 Right.

02:00:18.000 You know, that was when, you know, Frank Shamrock was there.

02:00:21.000 I think he tapped...

02:00:24.000 I think he tapped Dan Henderson.

02:00:27.000 I think he got him in an ankle lock.

02:00:28.000 I think so, yes.

02:00:30.000 They just didn't understand the positions.

02:00:32.000 And these guys were so good at submissions.

02:00:36.000 kevin jackson yeah kevin jackson monday that's right yeah kevin jackson fought um frank shamrock and he got armbarred they just didn't understand the positions but if they did but if they did if they had real training having that ability the wrestler's ability first of all wrestlers are the very best at controlling bodies they're very the very best at taking people down and then the next step is just understanding those submissions The hardest guys to deal with for sure in jiu-jitsu are guys who are great wrestlers who learn jiu

02:01:06.000 -jitsu.

02:01:06.000 Because they already know how to control bodies.

02:01:08.000 So then they understand these new positions and they just have this massive advantage in being able to control bodies.

02:01:15.000 It's still the cornerstone for MMA. If you can't wrestle, you can't fight.

02:01:19.000 Because guys just take you down.

02:01:21.000 No matter how good a striker.

02:01:23.000 They're stand-up fighters and they try to get in there and do it, they get crushed.

02:01:29.000 Yeah, there's not a lot of guys who can't wrestle, whoever wind up doing well in the sport.

02:01:34.000 Yeah, I saw a funny thing, again, it's all on Instagram, these memes lately, or videos, but I saw a good one of Derek Lewis going, wrestling's not that big of a deal, all you have to do is stand up.

02:01:45.000 And then it shows this reel of wrestlers taking him down and he just rolls over and starts planting a foot.

02:01:52.000 Not with Daniel Cormier.

02:01:54.000 Daniel Cormier got him down and submitted him.

02:01:57.000 It's just who you're doing it to.

02:01:59.000 When you deal with a wrestler as elite as Cormier, here's Derek just standing up.

02:02:04.000 But Derek is just a giant of a man and has ferocious knockout power.

02:02:09.000 Look, he just pushes people off.

02:02:10.000 The ability to plant a foot and just stand up is incredible.

02:02:15.000 But that reach around move, that's a legit move, whether he knew it or not.

02:02:19.000 Craig Jones does that.

02:02:20.000 That reach from the position, you get into that spot.

02:02:23.000 He actually has, I think he calls it the octopus guard.

02:02:27.000 Or reach around.

02:02:28.000 Craig's really funny.

02:02:30.000 But Craig actually does that.

02:02:31.000 But he stands up with everybody.

02:02:33.000 And that's with Roy Nelson, who's a great grappler.

02:02:36.000 But, you know, when you've got Derek throwing punches at you, there's not a human alive. 0.98

02:02:40.000 I mean, that guy punches so fucking hard. 0.99

02:02:43.000 Scary. 0.99

02:02:43.000 He's so crazy powerful. 0.99

02:02:45.000 He just gets up.

02:02:47.000 Jeez.

02:02:47.000 He just gets up.

02:02:48.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:02:48.000 And if you're fucking Roy Nelson, you're like, aw, shit. 1.00

02:02:52.000 Like, someone's going to get him in Americana, he's like, yeah, I think I'll just stand up. 1.00

02:02:56.000 He'll get up, plants a foot, stands up, then turns around.

02:03:01.000 That's a guy Derek, I think, would shine in pro wrestling at the end of his career.

02:03:05.000 He just signed a new deal with the UFC. I think it's an eight-fight deal.

02:03:09.000 They're really giving him a lot of money, so I'm happy for him.

02:03:12.000 Do you think he'll go all eight fights?

02:03:14.000 I don't know.

02:03:15.000 Who knows?

02:03:16.000 It's so hard in that sport.

02:03:17.000 But the heavyweight division is so shallow.

02:03:21.000 All he needs is string together a few wins and he can fight for the title.

02:03:24.000 Because there's really only... 0.86

02:03:26.000 I mean, there's like fucking 15 or 20 elite heavyweights. 0.87

02:03:30.000 Whereas you go into lightweight, 155, there's a sea of them. 0.97

02:03:36.000 170, there's a sea of them.

02:03:38.000 185, there's so many guys.

02:03:40.000 So there's like five times as many.

02:03:42.000 Yeah.

02:03:43.000 Heavyweight is probably the shallowest division.

02:03:47.000 Hasn't it always been?

02:03:49.000 Yeah, I mean, it's just, there's not that many.

02:03:51.000 Those guys go into the NFL. You know, those guys go into the NFL, NBA, pro basketball.

02:03:58.000 But I also think that, you know, the average human being is right in the middle, you know, 165, 175. And I think that most of the people, like, I'll tell you this, in amateur wrestling, most of the wrestlers are in the middleweights.

02:04:13.000 And then as you go up and down, they become less and less and less and less.

02:04:17.000 And then when you're at the very lightest weight, there's very few.

02:04:20.000 And at the heaviest weight, there's very few.

02:04:22.000 So there's like an average weight of people, of human beings, and when you go higher and lower, it gets lighter.

02:04:29.000 There's another guy that everybody wanted to see compete in MMA, and that's Corellin.

02:04:32.000 Did you ever get a chance to see Corellin compete?

02:04:35.000 Yeah, yeah, man.

02:04:36.000 You know what?

02:04:36.000 These guys were so scared of him that when he would pick him up for the reverse gut wrench, they would pin themselves.

02:04:42.000 They'd roll over and pin themselves.

02:04:44.000 I went to the World Championships one year, and this guy's in the finals with Corellin.

02:04:50.000 And Corellin goes to lift him up and the guy turns over and pins himself.

02:04:52.000 I'm like, why'd you do that?

02:04:54.000 Like, you arrested Corellin and at least, you know, try to beat him.

02:04:58.000 They were worried about getting smashed.

02:05:00.000 Yeah, they didn't want to get hurt.

02:05:01.000 Because he would pick you up and hit you with the world. 1.00

02:05:04.000 He would basically, I mean, there's a photo that we have in the gym out here that I put up just to remind myself of what a pussy I am. 1.00

02:05:11.000 It's Corellin. 0.99

02:05:12.000 Show that photo.

02:05:13.000 It's this black and white photo of Corellin where he's about to pick this guy.

02:05:17.000 That photo right there. 1.00

02:05:17.000 Look at that fucking photo! 1.00

02:05:19.000 I mean, tell me that's not... 1.00

02:05:20.000 That dude was 300 fucking pounds and moved like a panther. 0.99

02:05:24.000 You know what's crazy? 1.00

02:05:25.000 That he got beat his last match.

02:05:27.000 Yeah, well, he got beat by a new rule, right?

02:05:29.000 A technicality.

02:05:31.000 Yeah, the technicality was when you broke the grip, it counted as one point.

02:05:34.000 And that was really at the end of his career.

02:05:37.000 But Rulon Gardner was also a tank, too.

02:05:39.000 He was, he was.

02:05:41.000 And Rulon went on to fight, and he did fairly good.

02:05:44.000 Yeah, he did well in pride.

02:05:46.000 Yeah.

02:05:47.000 But I just had Rulon on my podcast, and he said that, you know, wrestling Corellin, at that point in his career, he knew that Corellin wasn't in the best form of shape.

02:06:00.000 Right, he wasn't the same.

02:06:01.000 Yeah, yeah, but he was still Corellin.

02:06:04.000 He was still Corell.

02:06:05.000 Yeah, doesn't matter.

02:06:07.000 I mean, he's the baddest dude on the planet.

02:06:08.000 He was so big.

02:06:09.000 And for Rulon to stay close with him and then end up beating him on a technicality, that's still pretty impressive.

02:06:16.000 Very impressive.

02:06:16.000 If you watched Corell in training, though, what was so fantastic about Corell was his mobility.

02:06:22.000 Yeah.

02:06:22.000 Even though he was this enormous guy, his mobility was sensational.

02:06:26.000 See if you can find some of that footage of Corral and training.

02:06:29.000 Incredible athlete.

02:06:30.000 For a giant guy, he really emphasized his movement.

02:06:35.000 The Soviet training, what they were doing with those guys back then was so technical.

02:06:40.000 Well, you know the rumor about him, right?

02:06:42.000 They called him the experiment.

02:06:44.000 His parents were like small.

02:06:46.000 They were like my size.

02:06:48.000 And then, you know, all of a sudden they have this kid that just looks like some science project.

02:06:53.000 He does.

02:06:53.000 He does look like an experiment.

02:06:55.000 It's like who Ivan Drago was based off of her.

02:06:58.000 Bro, he would have picked Ivan Drago up and spiked him to China. 0.99

02:07:03.000 His feet would have been poking out of the fucking top of the earth. 0.95

02:07:06.000 But if you watch his training, like a lot of his training was like box jumps and kettlebells and mobility. 0.98

02:07:12.000 A lot of it was like movement-based.

02:07:15.000 He was very, very flexible.

02:07:18.000 So you see that when you kind of fast-forwarded through that, but what they showed before when he was on the mats there, look at that.

02:07:25.000 Him wiggling around on the top of his shoulders.

02:07:28.000 Wow.

02:07:28.000 Look at that kind of agility.

02:07:29.000 That's called mobility.

02:07:30.000 Yeah, for a 300-pound guy.

02:07:33.000 I mean, and this is at the end of his career, too. 0.95

02:07:35.000 But he was all about athleticism and, you know, and also being fucking enormous and incredibly strong, but moved like a panther. 0.74

02:07:44.000 Now, why didn't he fight? 0.94

02:07:47.000 He had one kind of fake fight.

02:07:51.000 I think he had one, like, in Japan?

02:07:56.000 What was interesting about Japan, Japan had real fights mixed in with fake fights in the beginning.

02:08:02.000 They eventually became all real fights.

02:08:04.000 That was pride, right?

02:08:05.000 Yeah.

02:08:05.000 There were some fights that they had, and also in some other organizations, some smaller organizations.

02:08:10.000 So is this Karelin?

02:08:11.000 Yeah.

02:08:13.000 So this was kind of like a fake fight.

02:08:18.000 I think he gets tapped in here.

02:08:20.000 And this is at the end.

02:08:21.000 He wasn't wrestling anymore.

02:08:23.000 And I think they just probably gave him a lot of money.

02:08:26.000 I forget how he loses here, but it seemed suspicious.

02:08:32.000 You think he just threw it?

02:08:34.000 I think so.

02:08:36.000 I don't know.

02:08:39.000 I'll be honest with you.

02:08:41.000 Watching him compete, I always thought that if he ever fought, he would just dominate.

02:08:46.000 I think he would have too.

02:08:48.000 In his prime, I don't think a human being would have been able to stop him.

02:08:52.000 That was the end?

02:08:53.000 Okay, so he didn't lose.

02:08:54.000 I thought, I don't want to think.

02:08:56.000 Maybe he fought more than once.

02:08:59.000 I don't think it was a real MMA fight, though.

02:09:03.000 Because it just didn't...

02:09:04.000 I don't know.

02:09:05.000 It was weird over there, because Japan had such a history of pro wrestling that a lot of their early stars in MMA were also stars in pro wrestling, like Takata.

02:09:19.000 When Takata fought in the first UFC. But he fought Hicks and Gracie, and that was a real fight.

02:09:25.000 And Hickson was quite a bit smaller than him, but Hickson was the master of jiu-jitsu back then.

02:09:30.000 I mean, he was so...

02:09:31.000 Yeah, he was the man, huh?

02:09:33.000 He was the man.

02:09:34.000 And, you know, he was the guy that when Hoist Gracie won the UFC, everyone said, listen, Hoist is great, but his brother is literally a hundred times better than that.

02:09:44.000 That's what I heard.

02:09:45.000 Yeah, and then you'd see him roll.

02:09:47.000 What Hickson would do famously is he would teach a seminar with world champions in the crowd, black belts. 1.00

02:09:53.000 Teach a seminar, explain to him certain principles that he used, and then at the end of the seminar, he'd roll with everybody.

02:09:58.000 And he would roll with them one at a time.

02:10:00.000 So these guys would wait, and then these black belts, world champions, like the top of the food chain.

02:10:05.000 They would go in there and roll with Hickson, and Hickson would tap them all.

02:10:08.000 There's videos of it, of him just effortlessly tapping everybody.

02:10:13.000 Just rotating in and out, huh?

02:10:15.000 Rotating.

02:10:15.000 No breaks.

02:10:16.000 Bring in the next guy, my friend.

02:10:18.000 And they would come in and he would tap them too.

02:10:20.000 It's just his level of Jiu-Jitsu was so advanced.

02:10:23.000 His dad was Elio Gracie.

02:10:25.000 He started when he was a kid.

02:10:27.000 And the thing that separated him from some of those other guys was his physicality.

02:10:31.000 Because Hickson, his knowledge was better than anybody's.

02:10:36.000 But his movement and his physicality, he was jacked.

02:10:40.000 He was like one of the first jacked Gracies. 1.00

02:10:43.000 Well, let me ask you this.

02:10:44.000 Why was Hoist the one they pushed?

02:10:47.000 There's a lot of talk about that.

02:10:49.000 Is it because of Hickson's age?

02:10:50.000 No, no, no, no.

02:10:51.000 Because Hickson was still young.

02:10:54.000 One thing was that Horian Gracie, who started the UFC, he could control Hoist.

02:11:00.000 And you couldn't tell Hickson what to do.

02:11:03.000 And the thought was, if Hoist ever lost, then they bring in Hickson.

02:11:06.000 But Hoist didn't lose.

02:11:08.000 Hoist was tapping everybody.

02:11:09.000 And it was also, in some ways, a better advertisement for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

02:11:15.000 Because you had this guy in Hoist, who was 175 pounds, who was tapping guys like Dan Severn with a triangle choke from his back.

02:11:21.000 He was smaller, yeah.

02:11:22.000 He was smaller than everybody.

02:11:23.000 So it showed just that jiu-jitsu was superior.

02:11:27.000 Right.

02:11:28.000 Because the early days of the UFC was really an advertisement for Gracie jiu-jitsu.

02:11:32.000 Yes, it was.

02:11:33.000 Horian was a genius.

02:11:34.000 And his idea was like, look, he knew that jiu-jitsu was superior if you didn't know it.

02:11:39.000 Right.

02:11:39.000 So all these guys that didn't understand what those submissions were, they didn't understand those positions, and Hoist wore the gi.

02:11:44.000 So when he would grab ahold of guys, guys would instinctively grab his gi.

02:11:48.000 They didn't understand.

02:11:50.000 They didn't know how to push him off.

02:11:52.000 They didn't know how to leg kick him.

02:11:53.000 They didn't know how to do any of those things back then.

02:11:55.000 So they would wind up getting dragged to the ground, and Hoist was just so much better than everybody.

02:12:00.000 But still, his brother was so much better than him.

02:12:03.000 Hickson, yeah.

02:12:03.000 Yeah, Hickson was the man.

02:12:05.000 And everybody said...

02:12:07.000 There's like...

02:12:08.000 There was no argument back then.

02:12:10.000 It was like, who's the best at jiu-jitsu?

02:12:12.000 Everyone said Hickson.

02:12:14.000 Everyone.

02:12:14.000 That doesn't happen.

02:12:16.000 There's always debate.

02:12:18.000 You know, like even in boxing, like when Terence Crawford fought Errol Spence, everybody was like, you know, maybe Spence is too big, maybe Spence, I don't know.

02:12:25.000 Back then, when it came to fighting, when it came to jiu-jitsu, everyone said it was Hickson.

02:12:31.000 But Hickson went over to Japan, and he competed in Vale Tudo, Japan in 1994. And that was, what was it, 96?

02:12:40.000 I forget.

02:12:40.000 It might have been 96. And that was when, you know, MMA was really just emerging.

02:12:46.000 And the first Pride, Pride 1, was with Hickson.

02:12:50.000 Hickson versus Toccata.

02:12:51.000 Oh, Toccata worked with Hickson, yeah.

02:12:54.000 See if you can find that.

02:12:55.000 Pride 1, Hickson versus Toccata. 1.00

02:12:57.000 But it's just like, once Hickson got you to the ground, man, you were just fucked. 1.00

02:13:02.000 You were fucked. 1.00

02:13:03.000 He was just too good. 1.00

02:13:04.000 He was too good and he was strong.

02:13:05.000 He was just a different guy.

02:13:07.000 He was just different.

02:13:09.000 He was bigger than Hoise, right?

02:13:10.000 Yes, he was bigger.

02:13:11.000 Didn't he have like a good Gracie documentary explaining how these guys basically invented jujitsu and stuff?

02:13:17.000 Yeah, Gracie in action is very good, but this is Hickson when he was young, when he was in his prime.

02:13:23.000 I mean, this is, that's Hoyler behind him.

02:13:26.000 And this is like, and Takata at the time was this pro wrestler.

02:13:31.000 And, you know, I don't know what he knew in terms of real martial arts.

02:13:37.000 And Hickson, I mean, this is a different world.

02:13:39.000 I mean, even if you just see how these guys are moving around, Hickson just stood straight up and walked towards him.

02:13:47.000 He doesn't look scared.

02:13:48.000 No, not at all.

02:13:49.000 He just knew all he has to do is get a hold of you.

02:13:51.000 But again, he's not fighting a guy who's like a real legit striker.

02:13:56.000 Right.

02:13:56.000 And when he did, he fought Funaki, and Funaki wound up fracturing his orbital bone, but Hickson choked him to sleep in one of the most dramatic finishes ever in MMA. He literally had him asleep out cold in a choke with blood all over the place.

02:14:12.000 It was pretty wild.

02:14:14.000 Was it his orbital bone or was it his opponent's?

02:14:16.000 Oh, he got hit by Funaki, and Funaki fractured his orbital.

02:14:20.000 So now Hickson, like, assumes mount.

02:14:22.000 And by the way, this is, you know, nobody was as good as Hickson back then.

02:14:26.000 His jiu-jitsu was so good.

02:14:28.000 And look, you see how different he is than Hoyce.

02:14:30.000 He was muscular.

02:14:31.000 So he was very physically strong, incredibly agile.

02:14:35.000 He could do yoga.

02:14:36.000 He was an incredible yogi.

02:14:39.000 So he had, like, the physicality, but also the incredible... 0.99

02:14:42.000 So right now, that right arm of Takata's fucked. 0.97

02:14:47.000 So as he's reaching with his arms right there, he doesn't understand. 0.98

02:14:50.000 Hicks is just kind of softening him up here.

02:14:53.000 He is kind of taking it easy on him, huh?

02:14:55.000 Well, he's just cooking them.

02:14:57.000 They would just take their time, and once he's got you in mount, you're not getting out, and he gets him in the arm bar here.

02:15:03.000 So he picks an arm, whichever arm he chose.

02:15:06.000 I think he chose the left arm.

02:15:09.000 And he's basically just pushing down on him, and yeah, see his right knee comes up, and that's it.

02:15:13.000 Whap! 1.00

02:15:14.000 And now you're fucked. 1.00

02:15:15.000 Now you're fucked. 1.00

02:15:17.000 And he tapped him. 1.00

02:15:20.000 Now see find Hickson vs.

02:15:22.000 Funaki.

02:15:23.000 That was Coliseum in the year 2000, I believe.

02:15:27.000 And that year was the year that, that was when Fedor was emerging and all these other guys were emerging.

02:15:35.000 And this was Hickson's final fight.

02:15:39.000 You didn't fight after this?

02:15:41.000 This is it?

02:15:41.000 No, this was it.

02:15:42.000 This was his last fight.

02:15:43.000 And they were talking about him fighting and competing against Fedor.

02:15:49.000 That was the big one.

02:15:50.000 And he wanted a very large sum of money that they probably should have paid him because that would have been insane.

02:15:57.000 How good was Fedor?

02:15:58.000 Fedor was amazing.

02:16:00.000 He was amazing.

02:16:01.000 He might have been the best heavyweight of all time.

02:16:04.000 He certainly was in that argument.

02:16:06.000 In his prime.

02:16:07.000 So he's beating him up here.

02:16:09.000 And then he eventually gets his back and strangles him.

02:16:12.000 And he puts him to sleep.

02:16:13.000 And it's so dramatic.

02:16:15.000 Because there's blood coming out of Funaki's face.

02:16:18.000 And he catches the choke here.

02:16:20.000 And Funaki doesn't tap either.

02:16:22.000 He just goes out.

02:16:23.000 He goes out.

02:16:23.000 Yeah, he just goes out cold, but he goes out with his eyes open.

02:16:26.000 So when you watch the choke, when they show up right here, like this is it.

02:16:32.000 It's a wrap right here.

02:16:33.000 Oh, my God.

02:16:33.000 So look at his eyes.

02:16:36.000 Oh.

02:16:37.000 Yeah, he's out cold.

02:16:38.000 They're stuck open.

02:16:39.000 Yeah, he's just out cold.

02:16:41.000 Jeez.

02:16:42.000 The early days, Kurt Angle.

02:16:44.000 That was the early days.

02:16:46.000 It was barbaric.

02:16:47.000 It was wild.

02:16:48.000 It's wild.

02:16:48.000 And to see where it is now, and to see what's really crazy is this Francis Ngannou Tyson Fury fight that's going to happen.

02:16:55.000 It is?

02:16:56.000 It's happening.

02:16:57.000 Wow.

02:16:57.000 October.

02:16:58.000 Yeah, that's what Francis is coming in to talk about.

02:17:00.000 He's been training for it.

02:17:01.000 Yeah.

02:17:02.000 Is that in America?

02:17:03.000 No, Saudi Arabia.

02:17:05.000 Oh, okay.

02:17:06.000 Yeah, those Saudi Arabians, man. 1.00

02:17:08.000 Oh, yeah.

02:17:09.000 They're throwing that money around.

02:17:10.000 Oh, yeah.

02:17:11.000 Yeah.

02:17:11.000 I don't know how Francis is going to do.

02:17:14.000 This is a boxy match, right?

02:17:16.000 Well, conventional wisdom says Tyson Fury, who's one of the greatest heavyweight boxers of all time, is going to box his face off.

02:17:22.000 I mean, that's conventional wisdom.

02:17:23.000 But there's also the possibility that he overestimates things, underestimates Francis, and gets clipped.

02:17:31.000 Who knows?

02:17:32.000 A few months, Tyson Fury could be a vegan.

02:17:34.000 Ha! 0.89

02:17:35.000 Ha! 0.89

02:17:41.000 Yeah, I mean, look, I'm just happy Francis is getting a lot of money.

02:17:46.000 Dana White talked about this recently, that there is a possibility that if Francis fights Tyson Fury and after that comes back and fights Jon Jones, that would be the ultimate.

02:17:58.000 Yeah.

02:17:59.000 Well, that could be two straight losses for it, too.

02:18:04.000 Yeah.

02:18:05.000 Yeah, probably.

02:18:06.000 That's the thing about Jon, too.

02:18:08.000 Jon could do everything.

02:18:09.000 Yeah, you know what?

02:18:10.000 He's my favorite.

02:18:11.000 Always has been ever since...

02:18:14.000 He came out, man.

02:18:16.000 He is the most overall talented fighter I've ever seen.

02:18:19.000 So talented.

02:18:20.000 So intelligent, too.

02:18:21.000 Just knows what to do.

02:18:22.000 By the time he gets in the octagon with someone, he knows everything about them.

02:18:27.000 He knows all their tendencies.

02:18:28.000 He knows what they do with their right legs forward.

02:18:31.000 Oh, yeah.

02:18:32.000 He's meticulous about it.

02:18:34.000 It's not luck that makes John that good.

02:18:37.000 I thought it was talent.

02:18:39.000 It's talent, too.

02:18:40.000 It's talent, too.

02:18:40.000 But it's one of those things, right?

02:18:42.000 To be the best of the best, it can't just be talent.

02:18:45.000 There's got to be so many factors.

02:18:46.000 It's mindset.

02:18:47.000 It's that warrior mindset.

02:18:49.000 It's having an incredible skill set.

02:18:53.000 It's just knowing so much about the art of fighting.

02:18:57.000 And you've got to realize John has been fighting at a world championship level for, God, what year did he win the title?

02:19:05.000 I mean, he won the title when he was 22 years old when he fought Mauricio Shogun Hua.

02:19:11.000 And since then, every fight he has had since then, except for like one or two, has been a world title fight.

02:19:17.000 Wow.

02:19:17.000 Which is just nuts.

02:19:18.000 Yeah.

02:19:19.000 Just nuts.

02:19:20.000 Talk about consistent.

02:19:21.000 Yeah.

02:19:22.000 And again, that wrestling base.

02:19:25.000 He's got that wrestling base.

02:19:26.000 I mean, that wrestling base is, in my opinion, the best base ever to enter into MMA. And it's also what you were talking about with the training with Dan Gable.

02:19:34.000 It's the mental toughness.

02:19:36.000 There's no one more mentally tough.

02:19:37.000 Yeah, wrestlers do have a lot of mental toughness.

02:19:40.000 You know, it's a tough sport.

02:19:43.000 It really is, yeah.

02:19:45.000 It's as tough as it gets.

02:19:46.000 I mean, and there's no money in it, right?

02:19:49.000 So you have to be just tough.

02:19:50.000 You can't be tough because, you know, you're going to buy a house.

02:19:53.000 Tough because you want to drive a Bentley.

02:19:56.000 Even the weight cutting alone.

02:19:58.000 Oh, yeah.

02:19:59.000 Did you ever have trouble cutting weight?

02:20:01.000 I didn't cut weight.

02:20:02.000 I wrestled up a weight class, always.

02:20:06.000 God, what a dream.

02:20:07.000 I actually weighed 199 at the Olympics, and the lower weight class was 198. Wow!

02:20:15.000 I could have made that.

02:20:16.000 I wrestled at 220. Smart.

02:20:19.000 And also I wrestled, I weighed 197 when I wrestled Sylvester Turquay in the NCAA Championship, Division I Championship my senior year.

02:20:28.000 He was 270, he was about 6'6", real big, big kid.

02:20:33.000 Looks like a Greek god.

02:20:35.000 And you were 199?

02:20:36.000 I was 197. Wow!

02:20:39.000 What was the mindset behind that of not cutting that extra pound?

02:20:44.000 Why?

02:20:45.000 Why do I want to Now, I could have made it easily, but what I did is I tricked myself and said, you don't have to diet.

02:20:54.000 You just eat whatever you want.

02:20:55.000 You can stay where you are.

02:20:57.000 So I figured, you know, why?

02:21:01.000 Well, I'm sorry.

02:21:04.000 College is 190, not 198. That's Olympics.

02:21:07.000 That was the old weight classes in the Olympics.

02:21:10.000 College is 190. I would have had to lose seven pounds to make it.

02:21:15.000 So why starve myself when I don't have to?

02:21:17.000 I could win at heavyweight.

02:21:18.000 Wow.

02:21:19.000 That was my...

02:21:21.000 That was my reason.

02:21:22.000 Well, that's incredible because that's how good you were.

02:21:24.000 You actually did that.

02:21:26.000 Yeah, nobody else has that problem.

02:21:29.000 Right, that's the whole mindset of weight cutting. 0.72

02:21:31.000 Like, I'd rather be the bigger guy.

02:21:33.000 I was a hand fighter and I had great positioning.

02:21:35.000 And that's why I won so many matches.

02:21:39.000 Nobody could score on me and I was always on them.

02:21:43.000 I was getting them tired.

02:21:45.000 I never let them breathe.

02:21:48.000 I was all over them. 0.85

02:21:49.000 Just hand fighting and attacking them and staying in their face, head butting them. 0.97

02:21:54.000 Anything I could do.

02:21:55.000 The time that you wrestled Brock, do you remember what you did?

02:21:58.000 Was it double leg takedowns?

02:22:00.000 Did you like...

02:22:01.000 Duck-unders. 1.00

02:22:02.000 Ah, yes.

02:22:02.000 Yeah, because Brock would come with these double legs.

02:22:06.000 He'd come up and I'd jack him up and duck under and get behind him.

02:22:10.000 It would be like in a flurry.

02:22:12.000 I wouldn't just do a move.

02:22:14.000 He'd do something, I'd counter and do it.

02:22:17.000 You'd be happy to know I beat up on our friend David Lucas, who weighs about 330 pounds with a duck under.

02:22:23.000 Who did?

02:22:24.000 I did.

02:22:24.000 You did?

02:22:25.000 At 145 pounds.

02:22:27.000 Well, David was tired in 13 seconds.

02:22:31.000 Yeah.

02:22:33.000 David's a little overweight.

02:22:34.000 All of his training is exhaust training.

02:22:37.000 Yeah.

02:22:38.000 He starts out exhausted.

02:22:40.000 He's tying his shoes.

02:22:42.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:22:43.000 But there was a lot of shit talking before that. 0.99

02:22:45.000 They wrestled on the stage at the Vulcan Comedy Club. 0.99

02:22:48.000 Yeah.

02:22:48.000 It was hilarious.

02:22:49.000 He was talking shit for months. 1.00

02:22:52.000 There he is. 1.00

02:22:53.000 Oh, my God.

02:22:55.000 David was done.

02:22:57.000 See me counting the score?

02:22:58.000 Two points.

02:23:01.000 We had Chinese dumplings right before that.

02:23:07.000 Whiskey, tequila, Chinese dumplings, and blunts.

02:23:09.000 So it's not exactly a sanctioned wrestling match.

02:23:12.000 It definitely was not that.

02:23:13.000 It definitely was not that.

02:23:15.000 I had to take off my cowboy boots to do that.

02:23:17.000 I still have a bandana wrapped around my neck.

02:23:18.000 I think he was wearing socks too.

02:23:21.000 What's just incredible about your career was that you were able to accomplish that by violating that one cardinal rule.

02:23:27.000 You want to fight and be the biggest you can in your weight class. 1.00

02:23:30.000 And you were like, fuck it. 1.00

02:23:31.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

02:23:33.000 I didn't want to have to do that.

02:23:35.000 I didn't want to have to lose weight.

02:23:36.000 I was like, why?

02:23:38.000 You know, I just wrestled 220 for the Olympics and heavyweight for college wrestling.

02:23:43.000 How much do you think you weighed in the Olympics?

02:23:45.000 I weighed 199 when I wrestled 220. Wow.

02:23:51.000 And the weight class below was 198. Were you faster?

02:23:55.000 So I was a pound over.

02:23:55.000 Were you a little bit faster than the big guys?

02:23:57.000 This was Turkey.

02:23:57.000 This is a guy, 6'6".

02:23:58.000 He was 270. And I was 197 here.

02:24:03.000 Incredible.

02:24:06.000 That's incredible.

02:24:07.000 Look at the size difference.

02:24:09.000 This kid was a pinner.

02:24:14.000 He pinned everybody.

02:24:15.000 Actually, he pinned all five opponents before this match.

02:24:18.000 Wow.

02:24:20.000 Within a minute.

02:24:21.000 Did any of your coaches try to get you to go down to the next weight?

02:24:26.000 They...

02:24:27.000 They never fought me on it.

02:24:29.000 They knew my mind was made up.

02:24:32.000 They didn't care.

02:24:33.000 I was winning titles.

02:24:35.000 I guess as long as you're winning.

02:24:37.000 But it's so crazy that you violated that conventional wisdom.

02:24:40.000 You know what?

02:24:41.000 I would have won at 190, too.

02:24:44.000 Not that I'm bragging, but Mark Kerr won the NCAAs.

02:24:49.000 When Kerr started beating me, he got bigger, but I think I could have probably beaten Kerr in college.

02:24:56.000 It wasn't like I was trying to stay away from people.

02:24:59.000 I just didn't have to lose weight.

02:25:02.000 That's amazing.

02:25:03.000 You know, that's one of the biggest problems in MMA, is the weight cutting.

02:25:07.000 It's a real problem.

02:25:09.000 You know what, not only that, not only is it hard, it takes the fun out of it, and then you don't enjoy what you're doing anymore. 0.97

02:25:17.000 And not only do you have to worry about the fight, now you have to worry about your weight too, and it's just like, you just have so much shit, so much stress going on at one time. 0.95

02:25:25.000 The last thing you need to be worrying about is your weight. 0.99

02:25:27.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:25:29.000 And all you're worrying about, at least from my high school experience, all you're worrying about is your weight until the match.

02:25:36.000 And then you're like, okay, now I get to fight. 0.99

02:25:39.000 And then you're like, oh shit, I have to fight. 0.99

02:25:40.000 And I will also agree with you because when you're cutting weight, you're not training properly. 0.99

02:25:46.000 Right.

02:25:47.000 You're not able to have the energy to train right.

02:25:50.000 Right, right.

02:25:50.000 So now all you're doing is you're letting someone beat you up while you have plastics on.

02:25:53.000 You're rolled up in a ball and this person's just beating the shit out of you and trying to get you to sweat. 0.93

02:25:58.000 Yeah. 0.86

02:25:59.000 It really lowers your work ethic.

02:26:01.000 Yeah.

02:26:02.000 So you don't want to do that.

02:26:03.000 I've always said it about MMA. It's the one thing that I would cut out if I could.

02:26:07.000 I think there should be more weight classes, and I think they should make guys fight at whatever the weight they are.

02:26:12.000 I think it's sanctioned cheating.

02:26:13.000 I mean, I really do.

02:26:14.000 I really think that's what it is.

02:26:15.000 When you got guys like Alex Pajeda is probably the best example.

02:26:19.000 He weighed in at 185 when he fought Israel Adesanya and won the title.

02:26:23.000 When he got into the octagon, he was 226. He gained that much weight.

02:26:29.000 He gained 40 pounds.

02:26:31.000 You know what?

02:26:31.000 That is what I was scared of.

02:26:33.000 That's what happened to me for the Olympics.

02:26:36.000 Like Mark Kerr, Mark Coleman, they would cut down to 220 and get up to 245. Yeah.

02:26:41.000 And I was wrestling down at, you know, 200, 299 pounds. 0.97

02:26:45.000 I was like, holy shit, man. 0.98

02:26:46.000 Like, this is not right. 0.99

02:26:48.000 But, you know, I guess...

02:26:49.000 But they probably tired more.

02:26:51.000 Yeah, yeah, they did.

02:26:52.000 They did.

02:26:53.000 I mean, especially if you have a full belly and you're wrestling on a full belly.

02:26:58.000 Right, because they've been starving themselves forever.

02:27:00.000 So you know when they finally get a chance to eat, they're going to eat.

02:27:02.000 That's going to slow them down.

02:27:03.000 But then the mindset is, but at least I'm going to be bigger.

02:27:06.000 Yeah, yeah, you're right.

02:27:08.000 Yeah.

02:27:08.000 Well, that's the ultimate triumph of skill and mindset over everything else.

02:27:13.000 You know, it didn't matter what you weighed.

02:27:15.000 No. 0.98

02:27:16.000 It's pretty fucking impressive. 0.96

02:27:17.000 I didn't have to worry about it. 0.97

02:27:17.000 And you know what? 0.97

02:27:18.000 My training was better than anyone else's.

02:27:21.000 I had more intense training.

02:27:22.000 I was able to do whatever I wanted to do.

02:27:24.000 And I could eat whatever I wanted to eat.

02:27:26.000 And you could recover better.

02:27:28.000 Yeah, I was recovering a lot quicker than everybody else.

02:27:30.000 Yeah.

02:27:31.000 Yeah.

02:27:32.000 Well, I really wish they would do something about that in MMA. I really do.

02:27:36.000 Yeah.

02:27:36.000 I mean, I just think if they just had more weight classes, there's just only eight weight classes.

02:27:40.000 They should have more weight classes. 0.96

02:27:41.000 That's not enough.

02:27:42.000 No, I don't think so.

02:27:43.000 I'd say about 12. I think 12. 12 would be right, yeah.

02:27:46.000 I think every 10 pounds is the right way to go.

02:27:48.000 Yeah.

02:27:48.000 I mean, in boxing, I mean, you've got, it's so much different.

02:27:52.000 You've got 135, then you've got 140, and then you've got 147, and then you've got 154, and then you've got 160, and then you've got 168, and then you've got 75. That, to me, makes more sense.

02:28:02.000 It makes a lot more sense.

02:28:04.000 But, just for whatever reason, this is just how people have been doing it for a long time in MMA. Like, when you stand...

02:28:11.000 Like, there's guys that weigh 185 pounds, and I stand next to them when I'm interviewing them. 0.99

02:28:15.000 I'm like, how the fuck did you ever weigh... 0.99

02:28:18.000 Like, Pajeda, how the fuck are you ever 185 pounds? 0.99

02:28:21.000 Right, what's he, 210? 0.99

02:28:22.000 He's giant!

02:28:23.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:28:24.000 And he's fucking dense like this table. 0.99

02:28:26.000 Like, when you put your hand on the guy, he feels like a table. 0.99

02:28:28.000 Right.

02:28:29.000 Wow.

02:28:30.000 It's just nuts.

02:28:31.000 And it takes a lot out of their body, too.

02:28:33.000 It's terrible for their kidneys, terrible for their overall body.

02:28:39.000 24 hours before an MMA fight, you're literally on death's door.

02:28:44.000 Almost dead.

02:28:45.000 You're exactly right.

02:28:46.000 There have been a lot of guys that cut weight that have been rushed to a hospital.

02:28:49.000 There's Pajeda before and after.

02:28:51.000 It's hard to tell.

02:28:53.000 See there?

02:28:54.000 99 kilograms.

02:28:55.000 So what is 99 kilograms?

02:28:56.000 220-something? 0.99

02:28:58.000 Holy shit. 1.00

02:28:59.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:28:59.000 Yeah, that's 220. And then he went up to light heavyweight and he just beat Jan Bohovic at light heavyweight, who was the former light heavyweight champion. 0.99

02:29:06.000 But he's a real freak.

02:29:08.000 He's the greatest example of weight cutting.

02:29:10.000 Like, no one cuts weight like that guy.

02:29:12.000 No one's that big at 185 pounds.

02:29:14.000 He has some tricks up his sleeve.

02:29:16.000 He's able to cut weight like that?

02:29:17.000 I don't know what he's doing.

02:29:19.000 It's a lot of mental toughness, too.

02:29:21.000 A lot of mental toughness.

02:29:22.000 Maybe genetics. 0.86

02:29:23.000 Maybe his body's just able to do it better.

02:29:25.000 Some guys just...

02:29:26.000 Their body breaks down.

02:29:28.000 They're trying to dehydrate themselves like that.

02:29:29.000 It's hard.

02:29:30.000 Brushing your teeth the morning of.

02:29:32.000 That's the thing I always remember.

02:29:33.000 The Saturday mornings.

02:29:34.000 Brushing your teeth.

02:29:35.000 Your mouth wants to drink the water.

02:29:39.000 Swallow the toothpaste.

02:29:40.000 Because it's in your mouth.

02:29:41.000 There's been nothing in your mouth for days.

02:29:43.000 Yeah, you want to swallow it.

02:29:44.000 Exactly.

02:29:45.000 What's crazy about wrestling is you have to compete the day of.

02:29:48.000 Yeah.

02:29:48.000 That's what's nuts.

02:29:49.000 Yeah, you weigh in and then you compete.

02:29:51.000 That's what's nuts.

02:29:51.000 Yeah.

02:29:52.000 That's really nuts, because with MMA, the stark contrast, they also now, they weigh in in the morning, and then what we do is we have an official weigh-in ceremony at 5 p.m.

02:30:06.000 So when I announce it, I'll say, you know, like, Robert Whitaker, official weight, 186. But he's not 186 when he's standing there.

02:30:15.000 He's really probably like 200 pounds.

02:30:16.000 Yeah.

02:30:17.000 It's like 186 is like for a couple minutes.

02:30:20.000 He gets down there, sucks it up, and then they start rehydrating the electrolytes.

02:30:26.000 During the wake-up.

02:30:28.000 Yeah, so here's during the wake-up. 0.99

02:30:30.000 I mean, the guy's fucking dying. 0.99

02:30:31.000 Look at him. 1.00

02:30:32.000 He's just lying there.

02:30:33.000 They're covering him with plastics and thermal suits.

02:30:37.000 No, I mean, he's literally dying.

02:30:40.000 I mean, you can't do this very long. 0.98

02:30:42.000 And it takes a long fucking time for him to drain himself down to 185. And I think he's more suited at 205 anyway. 0.93

02:30:50.000 How tall is he?

02:30:51.000 He's big.

02:30:51.000 He's about 6'4".

02:30:52.000 Oh, gosh.

02:30:53.000 Yeah.

02:30:54.000 He's big.

02:30:55.000 And he's got giant mitts. 1.00

02:30:57.000 I mean, his fucking hands are huge. 1.00

02:30:59.000 Guy's got just paws. 0.99

02:31:02.000 Massive knockout power and a huge size advantage, but also I think it affects your chin. 0.79

02:31:08.000 I think when you do cut that kind of weight, you can't take a shot as well.

02:31:12.000 Right.

02:31:12.000 I think you take a shot better when your body's like healthy.

02:31:15.000 Yeah.

02:31:16.000 When you're eating right and you're mentally and physically strong.

02:31:20.000 So when Tyson Fury fights Francis Ngannou, Francis Ngannou used to cut weight to make 265, which is crazy.

02:31:28.000 Because the UFC has a weight limit.

02:31:30.000 Is he going to have to cut weight or not?

02:31:31.000 No.

02:31:31.000 Good.

02:31:31.000 The UFC had a weight limit, which is nuts.

02:31:34.000 On their heavyweights?

02:31:35.000 On their heavyweights, yeah.

02:31:36.000 Interesting.

02:31:37.000 Yeah, because there's a super heavyweight division that we've never used.

02:31:40.000 Has anybody ever used it?

02:31:42.000 Pride, you know, but Pride has crazy rules.

02:31:45.000 Like Pride, they're allowed to do steroids. 1.00

02:31:46.000 Like when Ensign Inouye was on my podcast, he explained that in Pride they had in the contract, in all capital letters, we do not test for steroids. 0.99

02:31:57.000 No shit. 0.98

02:31:59.000 You know, I'm not telling you what to do, but I'm telling you what to do. 0.99

02:32:02.000 Right, right, take them.

02:32:04.000 They wanted you to look awesome.

02:32:06.000 You know, they wanted you to fight at your best and look huge.

02:32:10.000 That'll help.

02:32:11.000 That'll help, yeah.

02:32:13.000 Might mean for sure.

02:32:14.000 Yeah.

02:32:16.000 Crazy sport.

02:32:16.000 Yeah.

02:32:18.000 Well, Kurt Angle, it's been an honor and a privilege having you in here, man.

02:32:22.000 I'm a giant fan. 0.99

02:32:23.000 You're a fucking stellar human being. 0.99

02:32:24.000 Can I ask one more question? 1.00

02:32:27.000 Yeah, please do.

02:32:27.000 I've always wanted to know, where does one keep a gold medal like yours?

02:32:31.000 Good question.

02:32:32.000 Is it in a sock?

02:32:32.000 Is it in a safe?

02:32:33.000 Is it right when you walk into your house in a glass case?

02:32:37.000 I'll tell you what happened.

02:32:38.000 I used to take it with me to all my events whenever I would speak or do appearances.

02:32:43.000 The actual one?

02:32:45.000 Yeah.

02:32:45.000 Wow.

02:32:46.000 And so one time I took it to an appearance and this little kid grabbed it and he was holding it.

02:32:52.000 Then he kind of grabbed the ribbon.

02:32:54.000 Then he started flinging it.

02:32:55.000 Oh no.

02:32:56.000 And he let it go and it hit the wall.

02:32:58.000 So there was a big dent in my gold medal.

02:33:01.000 So I never took it to another event again.

02:33:04.000 It's been in my safe because my kids, they were playing Barbie one day and they had the gold medal around the Barbie and I was like, okay, they're just going to get makeup on this.

02:33:15.000 So I decided from now on I'm going to keep it in the safe.

02:33:18.000 So it's away from my kids and it's away from anybody that's going to do any damage to it.

02:33:24.000 Because I already had damage done to my metal and I'm not going to have it again.

02:33:27.000 There's a kid out there somewhere listening to this cringing.

02:33:30.000 How old do you think that kid is now?

02:33:32.000 Oh god, that was 10 years ago.

02:33:34.000 He'd be about 18. He's probably listening going...

02:33:37.000 Fuck! 1.00

02:33:42.000 You know what? 1.00

02:33:42.000 I never even thought about that. 1.00

02:33:44.000 Oh, that poor kid.

02:33:45.000 You're just a little kid.

02:33:46.000 You don't know any better.

02:33:47.000 Yep, I did it.

02:33:48.000 Yeah, whoops.

02:33:49.000 Sorry, kid.

02:33:51.000 Listen, thank you very much for being here, man.

02:33:53.000 I really appreciate it.

02:33:54.000 It was awesome having you.

02:33:55.000 I appreciate it.

02:33:55.000 And I just want everybody out there to watch my documentary.

02:33:58.000 It's called Angle.

02:33:59.000 It's on Peacock.

02:34:00.000 All right.

02:34:01.000 And one more time, the supplement is Physically Fit?

02:34:05.000 Physicallyfit.com.

02:34:06.000 Yeah.

02:34:07.000 All right.

02:34:07.000 It's called Chicken Snacks and Smart Snacks.

02:34:09.000 All right.

02:34:10.000 Yeah.

02:34:11.000 Thank you very much.

02:34:12.000 Oh, and Kill Tony, you guys sold out the arena.

02:34:14.000 You have another one now.

02:34:15.000 Yeah.

02:34:15.000 Second show.

02:34:16.000 December 30th.

02:34:17.000 Which is wild.

02:34:17.000 Wild.

02:34:17.000 Yeah, it's already halfway sold out.

02:34:19.000 That is wild.

02:34:21.000 Yeah.

02:34:21.000 Podcast in an arena.

02:34:23.000 The HEB arena right here in Austin.

02:34:24.000 In Austin.

02:34:25.000 Unbelievable.

02:34:26.000 Yeah, and I'm on tour all over the country.

02:34:28.000 TonyHinchClick.com.

02:34:29.000 All right.

02:34:29.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - September 19, 2023

Joe Rogan Experience #2036 - Kurt Angle

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