The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2045 - Jimmy Carr

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:13.000 Hello, Jimmy.

00:00:14.000 Hey, Joe.

00:00:15.000 How are you?

00:00:15.000 Good to see you, buddy.

00:00:16.000 It's very nice to see you.

00:00:17.000 This is...

00:00:18.000 It's a hell of a setup.

00:00:19.000 Thank you.

00:00:20.000 I'm like in Austin, Texas.

00:00:21.000 I've been here about 18 hours, and it's, yeah, five stars on TripAdvisor so far.

00:00:26.000 Did you do a set last night?

00:00:27.000 I didn't do a set, but I went to the club.

00:00:29.000 Yeah?

00:00:29.000 And the club is...

00:00:51.000 It's phenomenal.

00:00:52.000 Thank you.

00:00:52.000 Yeah, you can.

00:00:54.000 Go eat afterwards.

00:00:56.000 There's so many places to eat on 6th Street.

00:00:58.000 There's a nice pizza place right next door.

00:01:00.000 Your neighbors are going to love you as well because it's that thing if you go, yeah, it creates a bit of a community and it's full.

00:01:05.000 It's like packed with people and it's kind of, yeah, it's phenomenal.

00:01:09.000 Great space.

00:01:09.000 Well, it's one of those Kevin Costner things, you know, you build it, they will come from the field of dreams.

00:01:14.000 Yeah.

00:01:14.000 Well, it feels kind of bigger than that as well in terms of, you know, you've come out here, and what are you giving back?

00:01:20.000 And comedy's given you everything, as it has me, and you go, well, what can you give back?

00:01:25.000 What can you do for your community?

00:01:27.000 And it feels like that's a great thing to do.

00:01:30.000 Well, it also seemed like I kind of had to do it, because when I moved here, I had this idea that I'd just be able to, like, do whatever local spots I could and then go on the road.

00:01:39.000 And I kind of could...

00:01:41.000 But one of the things that I've realized is that comics need community.

00:01:46.000 It's very important.

00:01:47.000 Like, and that's one of the things that we really had at the Comedy Store that made the Comedy Store so special, is that it wasn't just that it was a great place to work and come up with new material and work on it, but it was also a great place to meet other people that were doing the same thing.

00:02:01.000 It's interesting, comedy as opposed to acting.

00:02:04.000 Yeah.

00:02:04.000 You know, Alan Havy said this great thing to me.

00:02:06.000 He said, comedians, we're out for ourselves, but in it together.

00:02:10.000 I thought, oh, that's...

00:02:12.000 It's really interesting, that thing of going, yeah, everyone's doing their own thing.

00:02:15.000 Comedy is not like acting.

00:02:17.000 It's not a zero-sum game.

00:02:19.000 So you doing your thing, no matter how successful you are, has no impact on my thing.

00:02:24.000 If anything, you pull me up.

00:02:26.000 So comedy becomes a bigger thing.

00:02:29.000 If someone does fantastically and they're playing hockey arenas, then more people are pulled up through the clubs and the theatres into the arenas.

00:02:37.000 It feels like...

00:02:39.000 It feels like we're living in a golden age for comedy.

00:02:41.000 It feels to me like this is what it must have felt like to work in music or movies in the 70s.

00:02:47.000 Yeah.

00:02:48.000 It feels like there's something culturally going on with comedy where it feels like it's got a value that people need it.

00:02:57.000 People need to go out and feel like they're part of a community.

00:02:59.000 And I suppose when you think about what we're doing on stage, It is pretty special.

00:03:04.000 We're letting people into our minds, and we go into their bodies.

00:03:09.000 We're possessing them.

00:03:10.000 We change their physical state.

00:03:11.000 It's extraordinary.

00:03:13.000 It is extraordinary.

00:03:14.000 It really is like a drug.

00:03:15.000 You're giving people a happy drug.

00:03:16.000 Well, it's the endorphin, because you don't quite know when the punch is coming, and then the serotonin of laughter.

00:03:22.000 And the live experience as well.

00:03:25.000 It's like the live experience is so incredible for comedy, even as opposed to music.

00:03:31.000 Because what you get when you go out to a comedy club, you'll laugh 30 times more than watching the footage.

00:03:38.000 And really, and props to Netflix.

00:03:40.000 Netflix have been part of the reason comedy is having this golden age.

00:03:43.000 But you go watching something on screen, it's like, that's how you find out what you want to go and see live.

00:03:48.000 Yeah, and live is so much better.

00:03:50.000 Because physically, it gets you in a different way.

00:03:53.000 And you see people kind of coming, their body language changes, their whole, and they get into this kind of state with a performer.

00:04:00.000 They breathe with the performer.

00:04:02.000 They roll with it.

00:04:03.000 And it's so immersive.

00:04:05.000 And you don't remember a word of what the comedian said.

00:04:08.000 You remember how they made you feel.

00:04:10.000 Yeah.

00:04:10.000 There's also this shared experience of being there with other people that really feels good for people when you're laughing with a bunch of people.

00:04:16.000 Especially in a world where the individual has become sacrosanct and the tribe has been left to the side.

00:04:23.000 And people want to feel a bit tribal.

00:04:25.000 They want to feel like they're part of something.

00:04:26.000 Why do people want to go to music festivals in South by Southwest and Glastonbury and they want to go and see a comedy show.

00:04:31.000 They want to be in a room with a thousand people that all have the same sense of humor and feel a bit bonded.

00:04:36.000 It's nice.

00:04:37.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:04:37.000 Yeah, and there's also, with our art form, it's uniquely coming from one person.

00:04:45.000 Unless you're a singer-songwriter or an author, those are probably the only other people.

00:04:50.000 Any other mass form of entertainment that you're seeing, you're seeing a lot of different people collaborating, which is good, like in a film.

00:04:59.000 You have to have that. 0.98

00:05:01.000 But there's something about an individual's perspective and someone going, what the fuck is this? 0.95

00:05:08.000 I mean for me that thing of stand-up is naturally progressive. 0.76

00:05:14.000 For me it's like stand-up is about – there's an Overton window about what – that theory of the Overton window, what is and what isn't acceptable to talk about publicly.

00:05:23.000 Right.

00:05:23.000 And comedy is always pushing the edge of that.

00:05:25.000 Not just edgy comedy.

00:05:27.000 I do quite edgy stuff.

00:05:28.000 It's not about being edgy particularly.

00:05:30.000 Even someone doing observational stuff.

00:05:32.000 Seinfeld saying the world is crazy.

00:05:34.000 Nothing makes any sense. 0.98

00:05:35.000 This is ridiculous. 0.76

00:05:36.000 He says the thing and it pushes or someone talking about their relationships and their kids. 0.91

00:05:41.000 It pushes what's acceptable to talk about in everyday life Further.

00:05:45.000 And it expands that window.

00:05:47.000 And so we have more open, meaningful conversations.

00:05:50.000 Like you go and see a comedy show, you have a much more interesting chat afterwards.

00:05:54.000 You go to comedy on a date night, it becomes like a more interesting conversation because something the guy said sparks something.

00:06:00.000 It pushes the conversation.

00:06:02.000 It's naturally progressive.

00:06:04.000 Yeah, it is.

00:06:05.000 And also, in this day and age, it's one of the rare places where you can hear people speak freely about controversial subjects.

00:06:13.000 And in my club, we lock up the phone so people don't, they're not self-conscious, and they're also not distracted.

00:06:18.000 And then you don't have to worry about people filming clips.

00:06:21.000 It is weird, isn't it?

00:06:22.000 The locking up the phones is such an interesting point because that's what people want.

00:06:27.000 They want that boundary of going, I'm in a live...

00:06:30.000 There's lots of people that would...

00:06:32.000 You would watch your favorite show.

00:06:34.000 You'd watch whatever you like, like Game of Thrones or an MMA fight or whatever.

00:06:39.000 And if you have your phone near you, there's a temptation to check the news and refresh and refresh and see what's going on and to ruin the experience for yourself.

00:06:48.000 But somehow being out in public...

00:06:51.000 Like, you're aware.

00:06:52.000 Like, it's performative being in a crowd.

00:06:54.000 Like, we're not the only ones performing at a comedy club or in a theatre.

00:06:58.000 The audience are performing.

00:07:00.000 People, how are you doing?

00:07:01.000 Like, you ask an audience, how are you doing?

00:07:03.000 And they go, yay!

00:07:05.000 No one says that one-on-one.

00:07:07.000 No one's ever said, hey, how are you doing, Joe?

00:07:08.000 Yeah! 0.99

00:07:10.000 You sound psychotic. 0.96

00:07:12.000 But in an audience, it's entirely acceptable to be that person, to dance and to clap along. 0.95

00:07:17.000 You'd look strange listening to a band play live and just standing and listening.

00:07:24.000 And not dancing in the crowd.

00:07:26.000 And that thing about going, well, it's performative being in the audience.

00:07:30.000 Don't think you're the only one performing.

00:07:32.000 They're all with you.

00:07:34.000 They're all, the laughter is, partly you're signaling.

00:07:37.000 It doesn't mean that it's fake laughter, but you're signaling to other people that you got it.

00:07:41.000 And you're applauding when you kind of agree a little bit.

00:07:45.000 There's a rhythm to it.

00:07:46.000 Being in an audience is a performance.

00:07:49.000 And it's so fun to do.

00:07:50.000 Yeah, it is.

00:07:51.000 It's my favorite thing to watch still.

00:07:53.000 After all these years, I loved it.

00:07:55.000 I watched Christina Pazitzky last night.

00:07:57.000 It was awesome.

00:07:57.000 Was it fantastic?

00:07:58.000 Oh, she's so funny.

00:07:59.000 But it's just, it's fun.

00:08:01.000 It's fun to laugh.

00:08:02.000 It's fun to see someone's writing and see, like, where they're going with ideas.

00:08:06.000 And it's also, it's the same and totally different.

00:08:10.000 It's a guy on stage with a mic, a girl on stage with a mic, and it just...

00:08:16.000 What's he doing with this?

00:08:17.000 It's a totally different thing.

00:08:18.000 It's, you know, that self-authored thing.

00:08:21.000 I mean, the thing I'm working on at the moment, I'm slightly jealous of the club, I'll be honest.

00:08:26.000 I saw the club last night and went, this is quite something to do, to set up a club and to have that community, and it's great.

00:08:35.000 I'm working at the moment on a, I don't know whether it's a book or whether it's a, I think it might be like an online course, but a comedy course.

00:08:44.000 And how to do stand-up?

00:08:46.000 How to write jokes.

00:08:47.000 How to be a stand-up.

00:08:48.000 That's great.

00:08:49.000 I think, here's my vision for it.

00:08:51.000 I think we're going through a golden period.

00:08:54.000 But maybe it's just beginning.

00:08:55.000 Comedy is quite a new medium anyway.

00:08:57.000 We get to be the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, or certainly someone in our generation does.

00:09:02.000 If you think about it like George Carlin and Richard Pryor were John the Baptist, or someone's coming through. 0.86

00:09:10.000 It feels like it's getting bigger and bigger.

00:09:13.000 My vision is it gets taught in schools.

00:09:17.000 So we teach music, and we teach drama and art, and I think stand-up comedy is an art form, and I think we need to get less magical thinking and more, okay, let's put down a language, like music, you can write it,

00:09:32.000 let's come up with a, I mean, I'm working on like 50 joke types, but let's come up with a way of analyzing this and teach people how to do it, because what does it give you?

00:09:43.000 Like, if your kid does stand-up comedy, Okay, well, they have to find their voice.

00:09:48.000 They have to look at things from a different angle, a different perspective.

00:09:53.000 It's about pattern recognition.

00:09:54.000 These are all transferable skills.

00:09:56.000 And it's about finding your voice.

00:09:58.000 The reason every stand-up is interesting to watch is because it's individual voices.

00:10:02.000 And really, what's growing up about?

00:10:03.000 What's school about?

00:10:05.000 Finding your voice, finding out what you're about, finding out who you are.

00:10:09.000 Like, I don't think it's a dumb idea to teach stand-up comedy and to say, well, everyone should give this a go.

00:10:15.000 Because even people that have done...

00:10:16.000 I've got a couple of people that come and see me live or whatever that tell me, oh, I did like four or five gigs ten years ago.

00:10:23.000 But they enjoy stand-up comedy more than the average person.

00:10:26.000 It's like someone who can play a little bit of guitar goes and sees...

00:10:31.000 And goes, well, this is...

00:10:33.000 They have an inkling of how good it is.

00:10:35.000 Someone that does a little bit of jiu-jitsu, I imagine, goes and sees an MMA fight and goes, he's good.

00:10:41.000 They've got some idea.

00:10:44.000 It's like they've gone from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence.

00:10:49.000 Yeah.

00:10:50.000 We've actually talked many times about putting together a course, and we've thought about doing it maybe at the club, and just having professional comics that are on their way up, that are just starting, and having a workshop where we could talk to them about material,

00:11:08.000 about the importance of editing, about getting to the point quickly, and how to...

00:11:15.000 I think it would be great because how many comics do we know, guys that do this for a living and are doing great, that do have magical thinking?

00:11:23.000 Well, it just comes to me and I need to do this to make it happen.

00:11:28.000 Understanding how to write music has never damaged anyone's creativity.

00:11:34.000 So I think the idea of analyzing it and treating it like a job and how do you sit down and write?

00:11:38.000 And some people go, well, I don't sit down and write.

00:11:40.000 It just occurs to me.

00:11:42.000 Well, okay, but there's a great quote by Chuck Close.

00:11:47.000 You know the artist Chuck Close?

00:11:48.000 No.

00:11:48.000 He's a great artist, a pointillist.

00:11:50.000 And he said, inspiration is for amateurs.

00:11:53.000 The rest of us just go to work.

00:11:55.000 Yeah, it's similar to Steven Pressfield's work, you know, The War of Art.

00:12:00.000 Oh, I love that book.

00:12:02.000 Yeah, fantastic book.

00:12:03.000 It's really something, isn't it?

00:12:04.000 But I think I'm onto something here because I think a lot of people want to do something creative with their lives.

00:12:09.000 I think a lot of people want to, they like stand-up comedy.

00:12:12.000 It's becoming a bigger thing.

00:12:14.000 I think more people will want to try it.

00:12:16.000 And just giving them the kind of the instruction manual early on.

00:12:20.000 Yeah.

00:12:20.000 Because then what they're having to do is what we did.

00:12:23.000 You watch a lot of comedy and then you kind of reverse engineer what you hear people do.

00:12:28.000 So you watch the greats.

00:12:29.000 You watch Stephen Wright and Emo Phillips and Rita Rudner and Wanda Sykes and whatever you're looking at.

00:12:34.000 And you go, okay.

00:12:36.000 So they must have had the punchline first.

00:12:38.000 And then they must have, if they were doing that wordplay, that's probably how they did it.

00:12:44.000 Okay.

00:12:44.000 So you can take all the structure.

00:12:48.000 You can steal the structure and then come up with your own content.

00:12:52.000 It's a great kind of, you know...

00:12:53.000 Yeah.

00:12:54.000 Well, that's what a lot of people do in the beginning, right?

00:12:56.000 They make jokes that are similar to a joke that someone that they enjoy would write.

00:13:02.000 Yes.

00:13:02.000 It's in their voice.

00:13:03.000 It's in their...

00:13:04.000 They find themselves kind of doing...

00:13:06.000 And then there's different ages in comedy where certain people kind of come through and have a real effect on how everyone's performing.

00:13:12.000 Like Dave Attell.

00:13:14.000 Yeah.

00:13:14.000 Patrice O'Neill used to always talk about how many babies he had.

00:13:18.000 Yeah.

00:13:18.000 Like, in that so many comics copied his voice.

00:13:21.000 And Dave Vittel's, like, probably one of the bigger ones.

00:13:23.000 Well, I think he's been incredibly influential.

00:13:26.000 It feels like there's...

00:13:29.000 He's got the props later on.

00:13:31.000 But, I mean, it kind of...

00:13:33.000 He's the worst at promoting. 0.97

00:13:36.000 There's two brilliant comedians that are fucking terrible at promoting, and because of that, they don't get the credit they deserve. 0.99

00:13:42.000 Colin Quinn and Dave Attell. 0.98

00:13:44.000 Those are, in my opinion, those are the two that should be selling out arenas.

00:13:49.000 Yeah.

00:13:49.000 I mean, Colin Quinn's solo shows, I think there's three or four now.

00:13:54.000 He just did one at the club a couple weeks ago, and The whole staff, everyone, the comics, the staff, everyone was raving about how brilliant his writing was, the timing.

00:14:06.000 They said he put on a masterclass.

00:14:08.000 It's almost like everything he says is in that comedic tone.

00:14:11.000 He's been incredibly influential.

00:14:15.000 Fabulous.

00:14:16.000 And then, you know, a tale, it feels like you haven't put out enough material.

00:14:20.000 I'm kind of almost like, I don't want to be morbid here, but David Tell's not going to live forever.

00:14:24.000 And at some stage you go, there's not enough.

00:14:26.000 I mean, there's shanks for the memories, which is great. 1.00

00:14:29.000 And there's lots of kind of appearances here and there, but it feel like I want more.

00:14:34.000 Yes.

00:14:35.000 I mean, I love Bumping Mics. 1.00

00:14:36.000 I thought Bumping Mics was like, that's another great Netflix, hats off, to give Jeff Ross and Dave, to make it kind of feel like it was in three parts and it felt like a visit to New York.

00:14:49.000 And those shows, whenever there's a festival and those guys come and play, it feels like, oh, well, that's the late night hang.

00:14:55.000 Yeah, it's fun.

00:14:55.000 Yeah, and it's so improvisational, and they're both so good off the cuff.

00:15:01.000 Magnificent.

00:15:01.000 I think what Dave enjoys is just the work.

00:15:06.000 I mean, when you talk to him, he gets up in the morning, or whenever he gets up, he goes to the coffee shop, smokes a cigarette, drinks coffee, and starts writing.

00:15:14.000 Goes over the news, finds out what's going on.

00:15:16.000 When he goes into a town, like say he's in Cleveland, What's going on in Cleveland?

00:15:20.000 Oh, there's a scandal with the mayor.

00:15:21.000 Oh, okay.

00:15:22.000 There's something going on with the roads.

00:15:23.000 Oh, okay.

00:15:24.000 And then he starts writing things about it. 0.99

00:15:26.000 The team sucks. 0.99

00:15:27.000 Oh, let's write about that. 1.00

00:15:28.000 This is the life, right?

00:15:30.000 It's the...

00:15:30.000 I don't know.

00:15:31.000 I mean, maybe he's as successful as he needs to be because really, what's this about?

00:15:37.000 It's quite stoic, I think.

00:15:38.000 I've become quite the stoic on going, well, I... The world ordered a stand-up comedian.

00:15:44.000 I need to honor that.

00:15:45.000 Yes.

00:15:45.000 I'm a stand-up.

00:15:46.000 So anything that's not writing jokes or performing jokes is not doing the thing.

00:15:51.000 Right.

00:15:51.000 And the thing is all I care about.

00:15:53.000 I would add to that that it's good to experience life, too.

00:15:57.000 And then I think one of the things that accentuates life is accentuating your perspective on things.

00:16:02.000 And that comes from experiences.

00:16:04.000 And there's one problem that some comics have...

00:16:08.000 Where they just perform and travel all the time, and a lot of their jokes...

00:16:11.000 Airplane material.

00:16:12.000 Yeah, you know, revolves around what they know.

00:16:15.000 It's hard.

00:16:15.000 Work-life balance is very tricky.

00:16:17.000 I've had kids quite late in life, and work-life balance is hard.

00:16:22.000 You know, it's difficult.

00:16:24.000 Being a comedian, here's the first world problem I have.

00:16:28.000 You know, work is more fun than fun.

00:16:31.000 Yeah.

00:16:32.000 It's more fun than fun.

00:16:33.000 More fun than any vacation.

00:16:34.000 What are you doing on a night out?

00:16:36.000 Yeah.

00:16:37.000 No, we went and had dinner.

00:16:38.000 Okay.

00:16:39.000 Did a thousand people clap when you walked in the restaurant?

00:16:42.000 No.

00:16:43.000 No, they didn't.

00:16:44.000 Did you get a standing ovation as you left the restaurant?

00:16:47.000 Right.

00:16:47.000 Well, no, I didn't.

00:16:48.000 And I thought I did very well at dinner.

00:16:50.000 I have often thought of how many people live from the cradle to the grave and never kill.

00:16:55.000 And what a sad thing that is to never experience that.

00:16:59.000 Just destroying the audience for an hour.

00:17:01.000 Here's the depressing thought.

00:17:03.000 Some people live and die and they never hear their own voice.

00:17:08.000 So maybe teaching stand-up comedy.

00:17:10.000 I kind of think that might be the next thing.

00:17:12.000 I'm 50 now.

00:17:13.000 I feel like that might be the next thing of going.

00:17:16.000 I'm kind of looking for things that will make me feel like an imposter.

00:17:22.000 I want to feel like an imposter.

00:17:23.000 I want imposter syndrome.

00:17:25.000 I like it.

00:17:26.000 And I feel very comfortable in a theatre stage now playing to 2,000 people.

00:17:29.000 Great.

00:17:30.000 I want to play arenas so I don't feel as comfortable.

00:17:32.000 And I want to kind of become a bit of a teacher because I think becoming a teacher, I think I'll go, I'm not good enough to teach anyone.

00:17:41.000 I can't wind your neck in.

00:17:42.000 You're being presumptuous.

00:17:43.000 I think that's a good feeling to chase.

00:17:45.000 Yeah.

00:17:46.000 Because imposter syndrome is the most normal thing in the world.

00:17:49.000 As you level up through life, you should always feel like a bit of an imposter.

00:17:53.000 I've talked to virtually every great comic, and they all have had that.

00:17:58.000 Yeah.

00:17:58.000 They all have had that moment in their life.

00:18:00.000 They're like, when the people are clapping, and they're introducing their name, and everybody goes crazy, like...

00:18:05.000 Why are they clapping?

00:18:07.000 I used to open with that.

00:18:10.000 Let's manage our expectations, people.

00:18:13.000 It's a terrible thing when you get, like, when the applause is louder when you walk on than when you walk off.

00:18:19.000 Oh, yes.

00:18:20.000 And we've all had, like, okay, you were excited to see me, but the show wasn't ready yet.

00:18:24.000 Right.

00:18:24.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:25.000 There's always that.

00:18:26.000 It's also, there's an incredible lack of documentation about the process of stand-up comedy.

00:18:34.000 And it's one of the great things about podcasts is that it has served as an archive where you can...

00:18:42.000 I mean, I've had dozens and dozens of conversations with great comics where I ask them about their process.

00:18:48.000 It is.

00:18:48.000 I mean, partly that's the thing driving it.

00:18:50.000 I mean, I think the podcast thing has taken off and it turns out talking about comedy in the process is interesting.

00:18:56.000 I mean, I think there's breadcrumbs there.

00:18:58.000 Like Steve Martin's book, Born Standing Up.

00:19:00.000 Mm-hmm.

00:19:01.000 I think that's the...

00:19:02.000 If anyone's interested in the secrets of comedy, they're out there, and it's about $10.99 in all good bookshops.

00:19:08.000 But it's that thing of decoding that and making that kind of a...

00:19:12.000 Yeah, coming up with a language.

00:19:14.000 Coming up with something that you could go give a 14-year-old and they could write their own jokes.

00:19:19.000 I mean, they might not do it as a career, but it might be a fun hobby to have.

00:19:24.000 At the moment, comedy feels like it's for the professionals.

00:19:27.000 And there's no amateur circuit.

00:19:29.000 But like music and sports...

00:19:31.000 You've got professionals, okay?

00:19:33.000 You've got the greats.

00:19:35.000 And then you've got people that just do it for fun.

00:19:38.000 Why not have that going on?

00:19:40.000 Why not have more comedians, more comedy clubs?

00:19:42.000 Yeah.

00:19:43.000 Well, one of the things that we set up at our club is two nights of open mic nights.

00:19:47.000 So we have open mic night on Sunday and open mic night on Monday.

00:19:50.000 And then we have the staff of the club, all the door people, are all professional comedians who audition for that job with their act.

00:19:59.000 So there are people that aspire to be professionals, and this is sort of like in a practice show.

00:20:04.000 I met a couple of them last night.

00:20:05.000 I mean, it's kind of great.

00:20:06.000 It's great!

00:20:07.000 Yeah, it's just, it's, but the whole vibe of the place then is it's, you know, everyone is in service of this night, of this thing, of a theatrical performance.

00:20:19.000 Well, it's the only art form that is consumed all over the world, loved by everyone, cherished by people, but does not have a direct professional path in order to be successful.

00:20:30.000 It's not like music.

00:20:32.000 You learn how to play guitar.

00:20:34.000 You can take online classes.

00:20:37.000 You can figure out how to compose music.

00:20:39.000 You can get together with bands and practice and put it together.

00:20:43.000 There's a path.

00:20:45.000 With stand-up comedy, it's just go up and figure it out.

00:20:49.000 Go up and figure it out.

00:20:50.000 And it's very clunky and it's a lot of wasted time.

00:20:54.000 And I think a lot of that time can be sort of repurposed if we can give people more clear guidelines.

00:21:03.000 There's no way anyone can tell you how to do your style.

00:21:07.000 Because your style is going to be different than Tony Hinchcliffe's style, which is going to be different than Dave Chappelle's style.

00:21:12.000 Everybody's style and who they are and what they present, their view of the world.

00:21:17.000 I think comedians leak is always my kind of theory.

00:21:19.000 You can't watch someone for an hour and not know who they are.

00:21:22.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:21:23.000 I mean, I'm joke to joke.

00:21:25.000 I'm just joke to joke on stage.

00:21:27.000 And yet people know when I'm telling the truth and when I'm bullshitting and when it's real and when it's not real.

00:21:31.000 People get a real sense of you through your act, through watching you.

00:21:35.000 Do you travel around the world much?

00:21:37.000 Do you do much overseas?

00:21:38.000 Yeah, I haven't been lately, but I did the O2 Arena a few months back.

00:21:43.000 Actually a year ago.

00:21:44.000 I did it in October last year.

00:21:46.000 Yeah.

00:21:47.000 I did that just for fun.

00:21:48.000 I mean, I'm like, I think I'm 40 countries in now.

00:21:51.000 And you go, what's happened the last 10 years?

00:21:55.000 Like, the English language has become bigger.

00:21:58.000 And the English language was big to begin with.

00:22:00.000 But things like YouTube and Netflix has meant, because there used to be a thing in certain countries where they would dub every movie and every TV show into the local language.

00:22:09.000 And they would get it a little bit later, and it wouldn't matter.

00:22:12.000 And the local actors would do the voice, and the show would be a hit.

00:22:15.000 Great.

00:22:16.000 That's all gone now.

00:22:17.000 In the age of kind of global, you know, interconnectivity, people know what Game of Thrones was on last night and the new specials by Joe is out this evening.

00:22:27.000 So they watch it sort of straight away and they watch everything in English.

00:22:31.000 YouTube doesn't bother translating things.

00:22:33.000 So everyone's English has kind of gone up a gear.

00:22:35.000 So you can go to quite obscure places and everyone wants to come out and see stand-up comedy and they all know who you are.

00:22:42.000 And they're all listening.

00:22:43.000 It's kind of, it's an amazing way to see the world.

00:22:47.000 It is.

00:22:48.000 It is an amazing way to see the world.

00:22:49.000 And it is interesting how comedy translates into these other places and how they absorb comedy.

00:22:57.000 It's very different.

00:22:58.000 Like, I took Tony to Stockholm.

00:22:59.000 I love Stockholm.

00:23:01.000 It was great.

00:23:02.000 But he was like, dude, I feel like I bombed.

00:23:04.000 And I go, you did really well.

00:23:06.000 Why?

00:23:06.000 He goes, because they were quiet in between the jokes.

00:23:10.000 I was like, that's interesting.

00:23:11.000 Yeah, you go to some places, though, and it's like...

00:23:13.000 They laugh and stop laughing.

00:23:15.000 Finland, Denmark, Sweden.

00:23:16.000 Laugh, stop laughing.

00:23:17.000 And then at the end of the show, nuts.

00:23:19.000 Because it's more like a theatrical performance is the thing that they've seen before.

00:23:24.000 Yes, yes.

00:23:25.000 I'm like, they laughed at all your jokes.

00:23:28.000 He's like, yeah, I know, but it just felt like it was disjointed.

00:23:31.000 I go, you're just used to these rowdy American crowds that there's always noise going on.

00:23:38.000 If you're used to playing the clubs as well, I play mainly theatres, so if I go into a club, I'm very disturbed.

00:23:45.000 They're serving drinks during the set.

00:23:48.000 What's going on?

00:23:49.000 What's happening here?

00:23:50.000 Because you're not in that field.

00:23:52.000 There's certain countries where you'll get a standing ovation like Canada, America, Australia.

00:23:56.000 Love a standing ovation.

00:23:57.000 They're getting up to leave anyway.

00:23:59.000 They might as well.

00:24:00.000 The UK, the risen Christ could come on stage and they'd go, yeah, I don't think.

00:24:07.000 Well done.

00:24:07.000 It's like, that's just not the thing.

00:24:09.000 Why is that?

00:24:10.000 Or maybe it's me.

00:24:10.000 My friends from the UK that have come to America, one of the things that they've all sort of said is that in the UK, they kind of want you to not do well.

00:24:19.000 Whereas in America, they sort of celebrate you succeeding.

00:24:22.000 I think culturally, if you think about what America is about, it's, you know, it really...

00:24:29.000 I suppose it dares to dream.

00:24:32.000 There's a bit of a tall poppy syndrome in the UK where people do too well.

00:24:35.000 It's like, well, let's cut him down to size.

00:24:37.000 Whereas America is for dreamers and they're going to do something and they're going to...

00:24:41.000 It's exciting.

00:24:43.000 I mean, Austin's got a real feel at the moment for...

00:24:46.000 You know that every city whispers to you.

00:24:49.000 So Los Angeles says be more famous and New York says make more money.

00:24:52.000 And Austin seems to be saying be creative and weird and...

00:24:56.000 They're happy we're here, too.

00:24:57.000 That's what's really cool.

00:24:59.000 It's like they've embraced it because, you know, a scene moved into a city where there's 15 world-class comedians that live here now that didn't live here three years ago.

00:25:11.000 Was Ron White the first?

00:25:12.000 Yes.

00:25:13.000 Yeah, Ron White's a guy that means nothing in the UK. Like, he's not famous in the UK. I can't see why.

00:25:19.000 He's so good.

00:25:21.000 He's so good.

00:25:22.000 And he's retired except for my club.

00:25:25.000 So he's at the club all the time.

00:25:27.000 Have you got Polaroids of him?

00:25:28.000 No!

00:25:29.000 He loves me.

00:25:30.000 That poor man's trying to retire, and you keep on dragging him back.

00:25:32.000 He doesn't really want to retire.

00:25:34.000 He just wants to not travel anymore.

00:25:36.000 And I said, Ron, you don't have to travel.

00:25:39.000 You can get a new crowd every night of the week.

00:25:42.000 Anytime you want, you can go up.

00:25:43.000 And so he'll just text me.

00:25:45.000 You know, hey, you doing a show tonight? 0.99

00:25:47.000 I'm like, fuck yeah, you coming? 1.00

00:25:49.000 He's like, fuck yeah. 1.00

00:25:50.000 And then he comes down and he's doing acid and it's fucking, he's an animal. 1.00

00:25:54.000 He's so fun and he's so good. 0.98

00:25:57.000 And it's like for him, it's taken all the negativity out of stand-up comedy, which is the travel and the weariness.

00:26:03.000 He just leaves his house, drives 15 minutes, he's at the club, does a set, hangs out.

00:26:10.000 We all party and laugh and have fun and then he leaves.

00:26:12.000 And so he's there three, four nights a week sometimes.

00:26:15.000 That's fantastic.

00:26:16.000 Oh, it's so much fun.

00:26:17.000 I like the travel, I've got to say.

00:26:18.000 I like everything about...

00:26:20.000 I think that thing when you have a job, when you're living your dream, you're doing what you want to do in life.

00:26:25.000 I think it's on you to enjoy all of it.

00:26:28.000 So the airport lounges and the delays and the early mornings or whatever, or the flights, the whole thing, you have to embrace it all.

00:26:35.000 Good for you.

00:26:36.000 I'm glad you take that perspective.

00:26:37.000 That's very healthy.

00:26:38.000 Yeah, that's what everybody should take.

00:26:40.000 But it's that thing, isn't it, that thing in life.

00:26:42.000 Disposition is more important than position.

00:26:44.000 Yes.

00:26:44.000 You know, how you are in your head.

00:26:46.000 We all know billionaires that are miserable. 1.00

00:26:48.000 Yes.

00:26:48.000 And people sweeping the streets very happy.

00:26:51.000 Yes.

00:26:51.000 And it's that thing of, like, disposition.

00:26:53.000 And it seems to be, I know it's trite, but it seems to be the thing is gratitude.

00:26:57.000 Yes.

00:26:59.000 Gratitude is the cure for resentment.

00:27:01.000 Yes.

00:27:01.000 And there's so much resentment around.

00:27:03.000 It's such a maligned word because it gets attached to woo-woo bullshit and people wear wooden beads and, you know, it gets attached to posing. 0.94

00:27:13.000 But I think it's real. 0.88

00:27:14.000 I think gratitude as well is like...

00:27:16.000 People imagine it's about the thing, not the...

00:27:20.000 Like, the environment is the thing we should be grateful for.

00:27:23.000 Like, that we live in this time.

00:27:25.000 You know that Steven Pinker, Enlightenment Now book?

00:27:28.000 Where you sort of go, well, now.

00:27:30.000 Yeah.

00:27:30.000 Now.

00:27:31.000 I had a hot shower this morning.

00:27:32.000 No one...

00:27:34.000 Before 1930, no one had had one.

00:27:36.000 Right.

00:27:36.000 People didn't know what hot showers were.

00:27:37.000 They washed once a week in cold water.

00:27:39.000 Good luck, everyone.

00:27:41.000 Everyone smelled disgusting. 0.99

00:27:42.000 The world that we live in now is so fucking great. 0.99

00:27:45.000 Yeah. 0.94

00:27:46.000 We just don't appreciate it because we're so accustomed to it.

00:27:49.000 Well, it's that, what do they call that?

00:27:51.000 It's the hedonic treadmill.

00:27:53.000 You get used to the good things really quickly.

00:27:56.000 Yes.

00:27:56.000 And so you're searching for more.

00:27:58.000 But you look around, it's just, it's an extraordinary, well, the idea that, like, comedy is a thing at the moment.

00:28:04.000 Imagine if we'd been born in the 1940s.

00:28:07.000 Not really.

00:28:10.000 I guess we could have gone on before the band and said something, but it wasn't quite.

00:28:14.000 Who were the first people in America?

00:28:16.000 Lenny Bruce.

00:28:17.000 Lenny Bruce.

00:28:18.000 He was really the first to do our style of comedy.

00:28:22.000 But it was our style of comedy, where he's just talking about life.

00:28:26.000 Everybody before that was like, two Jews walked into a bar. 0.94

00:28:29.000 They buy it.

00:28:30.000 You know, it was like, set up punchline.

00:28:32.000 I mean, it's very old-timey, really, in a sense, because I do jokes.

00:28:38.000 So they stand and fall.

00:28:39.000 It's very high wire.

00:28:41.000 It's binary.

00:28:41.000 This is funny or not.

00:28:42.000 There's no story behind it that you can...

00:28:44.000 I mean, sometimes I do longer form.

00:28:46.000 But really, it's quite like old-school jokes.

00:28:49.000 But, yeah, Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, like, people that started playing theatres and clubs and had to draw a crowd.

00:28:55.000 So you weren't just...

00:28:56.000 And then Pryor was the first one to really do it well.

00:29:00.000 I never think Dick Gregory gets enough props.

00:29:03.000 He doesn't.

00:29:03.000 He doesn't get enough props.

00:29:04.000 People don't talk about what he did and part of the struggle, and he's incredible as a figure.

00:29:09.000 Well, you know, he's also the one that exposed the Kennedy assassination.

00:29:13.000 No, I didn't know that.

00:29:13.000 Dick Gregory went on the Geraldo Rivera show 12 years after Kennedy was assassinated.

00:29:19.000 Who had conspiracy theories 35 minutes in? 0.99

00:29:21.000 I have it fucking every 20 minutes. 0.99

00:29:24.000 Wait a second. 1.00

00:29:24.000 So hang on. 1.00

00:29:26.000 Because I know he was at a big part in the civil rights movement and was incredibly brave.

00:29:32.000 He's kind of drew a great documentary, like a proper Judd Apatow, three-hour Dick Gregory, here's everything you need to know documentary.

00:29:41.000 I would love that.

00:29:42.000 Yeah, I would love a documentary on him as well.

00:29:45.000 We've sang his praises many, many times.

00:29:48.000 Showtime put one out two years ago.

00:29:50.000 Oh, they did.

00:29:50.000 Oh, The One and Only Dick Gregory, 2021. Wait a second, Showtime have a time machine and they used it to steal this idea?

00:29:58.000 I think so. 1.00

00:29:59.000 Motherfuckers. 1.00

00:29:59.000 He was fantastic during the Vietnam War. 1.00

00:30:02.000 He was fantastic during the Civil Rights Movement.

00:30:04.000 Get back to the Kennedy thing.

00:30:05.000 So he went on the Geraldo Rivera show in 1975. How old is Geraldo?

00:30:12.000 He's old as fuck. 1.00

00:30:13.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:30:13.000 But he looked good back then. 1.00

00:30:14.000 He looks pretty fucking good now. 0.96

00:30:16.000 So Dick Gregory went on, and he went on with the Zapruder film. 0.97

00:30:20.000 And it was the first time the Zapruder film was ever exposed to the public.

00:30:24.000 So Geraldo Rivera played the Zapruder film, and you see Kennedy grabbing his neck where he got shot from the front.

00:30:31.000 And Dick Gregory...

00:30:32.000 Yes, Dave Gregory brought the film to Harado and played it.

00:30:36.000 And our next guest is a comedian for a bit of light relief.

00:30:39.000 He's going to show you the Zagruba film.

00:30:43.000 How many concert gigs did you do?

00:30:45.000 How many appearances?

00:30:46.000 I don't know exactly what in the video he talks about it because it's a long, it's a 20 minute video.

00:30:50.000 Okay.

00:30:50.000 Well, screw ahead.

00:30:52.000 So he shows the video of Kennedy being shot and then he goes, and I'm going to be at the Laugh Factory in Miami Beach on Thursday.

00:30:58.000 Come see me.

00:30:59.000 The net effect of that is to make more people watch it.

00:31:02.000 Well, I'm telling you right straight out that if you are at all sensitive, if you're at all queasy, then don't watch this film.

00:31:13.000 Just put on the late night movie because this is...

00:31:19.000 Very heavy.

00:31:20.000 It's the film shot by the Dallas dress manufacturer, Abraham Zapruda, and it's the execution of President Kennedy.

00:31:29.000 And Bob and Dick, would you please narrate what we're seeing as we show this film?

00:31:35.000 This is commercial footage leading into Dealey Plaza.

00:31:40.000 This is the car on Main Street.

00:31:43.000 So this film was taken by actual newsmen.

00:31:45.000 This was spliced together with the Abraham Zapruder film?

00:31:49.000 Yes.

00:31:49.000 Alright, so this is the beginning of the motorcade.

00:31:51.000 What you're seeing now is in slow motion so that you can grasp what is happening.

00:31:56.000 This is a film taken by Marie Muchmore that leads into the Zapruder film.

00:32:01.000 It's for time continuity.

00:32:04.000 The president is waving to the crowd here.

00:32:06.000 And Jacqueline Kennedy, of course, is sitting alongside him in the open car.

00:32:10.000 Right.

00:32:11.000 This is from Orville Nix's film.

00:32:13.000 This is originally 8mm footage, and they're heading now toward Elm Street.

00:32:20.000 They're on Houston Street now.

00:32:22.000 They're going to make a left-hand turn.

00:32:24.000 It's on the corner where they're going to make the turn there that the book depository was.

00:32:27.000 Now, this is the Zapruder film.

00:32:29.000 Okay, so the cars are coming along now into Dealey Plaza?

00:32:33.000 Yes.

00:32:33.000 These are the lead motorcycles of the motorcade.

00:32:35.000 All right.

00:32:36.000 Now, with the President and Mrs. Kennedy is also Governor Connolly.

00:32:39.000 Right.

00:32:39.000 Now, before he goes behind the sign, the President is waving to the crowd.

00:32:43.000 When he comes out from behind the sign, he is shot.

00:32:45.000 Then Governor Connolly is shot.

00:32:47.000 He's already been hit?

00:32:48.000 He's already been hit.

00:32:50.000 And now?

00:32:51.000 At the bottom of the screen, the hit shot.

00:32:54.000 That's the shot that blew up his head.

00:32:55.000 It's the most horrifying thing I've ever seen in the movie.

00:32:58.000 It is.

00:32:58.000 I mean, it's genuinely shocking watching it now, isn't it?

00:33:01.000 Yes, it's genuinely shocking, but it was the first time people saw that his head moves back and to the left, indicating a shot from the front.

00:33:08.000 And that fell against the narrative that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

00:33:14.000 There was a ton of eyewitnesses that said that they heard gunshots from the grassy knoll.

00:33:19.000 And then there was also this ridiculous magic bullet that they had to attribute to Lee Harvey Oswald's gun because one bullet had hit an underpass and ricocheted and hit a person.

00:33:33.000 So they knew that one of the bullets that got shot missed Kennedy, hit the underpass, hit a curb and ricocheted and hit this guy and he got brought to the hospital.

00:33:41.000 How on earth do we not have an answer to this now?

00:33:45.000 Well, they keep hiding the data.

00:33:48.000 They won't release it.

00:33:50.000 In 2017, they were due to release it.

00:33:53.000 They wouldn't release it then.

00:33:55.000 It was, again, I believe in 2021 they were supposed to release it.

00:33:59.000 It's very odd.

00:34:01.000 I mean, conspiracy theories are sort of fascinating because they're simple solutions to complex problems.

00:34:07.000 You know, so a lot of them, I kind of go, well, you know, I'm not sure whether there's any validity in that.

00:34:12.000 It just seems like an easy solution to this thing, which is incredibly nuanced and complex.

00:34:18.000 But the Kennedy thing, you go, well, how has the president got shot?

00:34:23.000 How could they have covered this up?

00:34:25.000 1963. There was no independent journalism.

00:34:32.000 There was no YouTube.

00:34:33.000 There was no online commentators that weren't captured by a system. 0.97

00:34:39.000 They weren't a part of an enormous structure like the New York Times or the Washington Post or whatever the fuck it was.

00:34:45.000 And the Zapruder film, again, had been archived for 13 years.

00:34:50.000 Or 12 years.

00:34:52.000 12 or 13?

00:34:53.000 I didn't realize that. 0.90

00:34:55.000 I assumed, stupidly, that he got shot and the film came out the next week. 0.97

00:34:59.000 No, no, it didn't. 0.98

00:35:00.000 12 years.

00:35:01.000 I believe, was it 75 that it came out?

00:35:04.000 I remember reading into this book, though...

00:35:06.000 It was like the frame, like frame 313 or something like that, that hadn't been seen.

00:35:12.000 They did have it as a Pruder film and they posted a lot of it in screenshots in Life.

00:35:18.000 In Life magazine, because Life magazine owned it.

00:35:20.000 But they left some of it out.

00:35:21.000 And then somehow or another Dick Gregory acquired it and that was around 75. And that's when he aired it on television.

00:35:27.000 And when he aired it on television, it just opened up everyone's eyes.

00:35:31.000 They're like, well, anyone who'd ever seen anything get shot knows that when you get hit with something from the back, you don't go back towards the shot.

00:35:40.000 The impact throws the head back.

00:35:42.000 You see the spray of the bullets, and it appears he's getting hit multiple times from multiple angles.

00:35:46.000 What's your feeling on it there?

00:35:48.000 I mean, you've looked into it.

00:35:49.000 You're a big conspiracy guy.

00:35:51.000 But who do you think orchestrated JFK's...

00:35:54.000 That's a good question.

00:35:55.000 I mean, Tucker Carlson came out on television and said the CIA killed Kennedy, and I think that's probably one of the reasons why he could remove from Fox.

00:36:03.000 I don't know who did it. 0.99

00:36:04.000 I really would be talking down my ass. 0.99

00:36:06.000 I'm amazed it hasn't been like a deathbed confession or something. 0.99

00:36:09.000 Because, I mean, conspiracies more broadly, you kind of go, well, it involves cognitive dissonance.

00:36:14.000 Wasn't there a deathbed confession from E. Howard Hunt?

00:36:16.000 I was going to say there was something.

00:36:18.000 Yeah, I think it was E. Howard Hunt, who was one of the people that was supposedly on the grassy knoll.

00:36:24.000 Woody Harrelson's father was supposed to be involved in this, too.

00:36:28.000 He was apparently a hitman.

00:36:30.000 There was, according to the lore, the last confessions of E. Howard Hunt, the ultimate keeper of secrets regarding who killed JFK, Yeah, that's how you keep a secret, a pipe.

00:36:42.000 I think on his deathbed, he said that he was involved in the conspiracy to kill the president.

00:36:48.000 I don't know who was involved.

00:36:50.000 I mean, I think it was probably a bunch of people.

00:36:52.000 There was a lot of people that wanted Kennedy out of there.

00:36:54.000 I mean, he wanted some pretty radical changes.

00:36:56.000 He wanted to disband the intelligence agencies.

00:36:58.000 He thought that secrecy was abhorrent, and he talked about it openly and openly.

00:37:02.000 This one speech that he gave about secret societies and he...

00:37:24.000 Well, it's different.

00:37:26.000 What I want to do...

00:37:27.000 You can't say the government, right?

00:37:28.000 Because the government is a blanket.

00:37:30.000 That's like saying drugs.

00:37:31.000 Drugs are bad.

00:37:32.000 Well, I'm drinking coffee.

00:37:33.000 It's not bad.

00:37:34.000 Everybody drinks coffee. 0.99

00:37:35.000 For that thing of going, what we need is some of those guys from the deep state over here for a week to deal with the regular shit. 0.97

00:37:42.000 We need someone on transit duties. 0.97

00:37:44.000 We need someone from the deep state to look at hospitals.

00:37:47.000 Well, in a lot of ways, those are more complex issues than assassinating someone and covering it up.

00:37:53.000 Because back then, again, it's not like information today where people have, like, everyone has a cell phone.

00:38:00.000 Like, if the Kennedy assassination happened today, there would be footage from a hundred different angles.

00:38:05.000 Yes.

00:38:06.000 There'd be so many people there and we would have high-resolution footage.

00:38:08.000 It's amazing how much there is, really.

00:38:09.000 It is amazing.

00:38:10.000 But it was just because he was so important.

00:38:12.000 And back then, you know, there were a few people that were enthusiasts that had their own personal video cameras.

00:38:17.000 And the thing, I guess, with conspiracy is some of it's true.

00:38:21.000 Like, the biggest conspiracy, I think, probably of our lifetime was paedophilia in the Catholic Church.

00:38:26.000 Yeah.

00:38:26.000 I remember that being talked about when I was a kid.

00:38:29.000 Well, how about in the UK? My mother was crazy. 1.00

00:38:31.000 Jimmy Savile. 0.98

00:38:33.000 Just hiding in plain sight.

00:38:34.000 How crazy is that?

00:38:36.000 It's really crazy. 0.99

00:38:37.000 And that guy looks like a pedophile. 0.98

00:38:39.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:38:39.000 I mean, he looked like such a fucking creep. 1.00

00:38:42.000 Here's the story I heard on Jimmy Selva, which is interesting. 0.99

00:38:44.000 He had a big show on TV called Jim'll Fix It.

00:38:47.000 Yeah.

00:38:47.000 Which was him making dreams come true for kids or whatever.

00:38:50.000 You know, they'd write in with a wish.

00:38:52.000 Yeah.

00:38:52.000 And he'd make them come through.

00:38:53.000 But he had that nickname before.

00:38:55.000 So he was kind of a fixer.

00:38:57.000 You know, he invented the turntable, the two...

00:39:00.000 Two record players together, that turntable.

00:39:03.000 Oh, like for a DJ? For a DJ. He invented the dual turntable.

00:39:07.000 Really?

00:39:07.000 Yeah.

00:39:08.000 I mean...

00:39:08.000 Not all bad.

00:39:10.000 Pretty much all bad.

00:39:12.000 99.9% bad.

00:39:15.000 Real bad.

00:39:16.000 What was my joke about him? 0.99

00:39:17.000 It's a very British joke, but Jimmy Salvo, the only man in human history to have fucked more miners than Thatcher. 0.94

00:39:23.000 That requires quite a lot of information about mining, Margaret Thatcher, what she did to the miners, and also, ah, it's a long way to go. 0.96

00:39:31.000 It's a good joke, though.

00:39:32.000 Yeah, no, he was hiding in plain sight and was part of the establishment.

00:39:36.000 Yeah.

00:39:37.000 But I think that thing of like going, the story I was told was he was kind of connected very high up because of what he did in terms of fixing things.

00:39:47.000 Like, so the guy that, are you familiar with the Perfumo affair?

00:39:50.000 No.

00:39:51.000 So it was the idea that the minister for, I think the Ministry of Defense was having, he was having an affair with a lady who was also, Christine Keeler, who was also having an affair with a Russian agent.

00:40:03.000 And she had been procured by this other guy who then got assassinated.

00:40:09.000 Or they think got assassinated.

00:40:11.000 And so I think the story I heard was Jimmy Savile had a similar role for procuring certain things for certain people.

00:40:18.000 Interesting.

00:40:18.000 So I wonder what he was doing for the police or for the Secret Service that gave him...

00:40:23.000 What gave him that ability to just...

00:40:27.000 That immunity.

00:40:27.000 Total immunity.

00:40:28.000 Well, that's what's the really scary idea, is that there's a ring of people that are pedophiles.

00:40:34.000 That's what terrifies people.

00:40:35.000 That there's a ring of powerful people that...

00:40:38.000 That's the...

00:40:39.000 You know, if you want to go full QAnon tinfoil hat, that's what a lot of people believe.

00:40:43.000 But I think that is like...

00:40:45.000 I presume Jimmy Salva was acting alone.

00:40:48.000 I mean, I presume that's...

00:40:50.000 But why?

00:40:51.000 Why?

00:40:52.000 But why covered up?

00:40:54.000 I don't know.

00:40:55.000 I mean, what if other people were also involved?

00:40:58.000 What if other people were also doing the same thing?

00:41:00.000 Oh, it's a terrifying thing.

00:41:01.000 I mean, there's a similar case in America with Sandusky, you know, who...

00:41:07.000 Jerry Sandusky, he was the coach that did a lot of things with kids and worked with kids, and everybody had this image that he was this great guy, when it turns out the entire time he had been molesting kids.

00:41:20.000 It's pretty horrific, isn't it?

00:41:21.000 Yeah, it's horrific, but that's often the role they play.

00:41:25.000 The role they play as...

00:41:26.000 Well, they have to get themselves into a mission where they're close to...

00:41:29.000 Yes, yes.

00:41:30.000 Which is like Boy Scout masters and priests.

00:41:34.000 Which is, you know, it's a terrible thing because something like the Scouts, which is very good for kids, go and play together and learn those things and those skills. 0.96

00:41:40.000 It's a great organization, and yet that's absolutely fucking ruined it.

00:41:44.000 That's the first thing you think of now when you think of the Scouts. 0.98

00:41:47.000 Yes.

00:41:47.000 Well, the Catholic Church is the greatest example of that, right?

00:41:49.000 I mean, you cannot say Catholic priest without someone thinking pedophile. 0.93

00:41:53.000 There's no other occupation on earth that has such a connection to pedophilia. 0.84

00:41:58.000 Yeah.

00:41:58.000 Someone was talking to me about the history of the Catholic Church and what happened and the idea of the thing that turned the Catholic Church bad was the plague.

00:42:10.000 Really?

00:42:11.000 So the plague hit in the Middle Ages.

00:42:14.000 And before then, the priest was the smartest guy you'd ever met.

00:42:18.000 The smartest guy in the town became a priest.

00:42:21.000 Could read Latin.

00:42:22.000 This guy could read.

00:42:23.000 This guy can read.

00:42:24.000 It just shapes on a page to us.

00:42:26.000 But had access to books, was reading, was the most erudite, brilliant guy.

00:42:30.000 The bishop was even smarter than that.

00:42:32.000 The pope was a genius.

00:42:33.000 Great.

00:42:34.000 So the plague happens.

00:42:35.000 And the plague wipes out.

00:42:36.000 I think it's a third of the European population, but it might have been more than that.

00:42:40.000 And it wiped out a third of regular people, but it wiped out 90% of priests because priests had to give last rites.

00:42:47.000 So they were around the plague more than regular people.

00:42:50.000 I need the last rites, I'm dying. 0.99

00:42:52.000 Okay, then he dies.

00:42:53.000 So the barrier to entry For getting into the priesthood went from, you've got to be great, to, ah, you seem to have all your own teeth and you can string a sentence together, you'll be great.

00:43:05.000 So all of that stuff that comes after, downstream of that, like the plenary indulgences, this thing where you could buy your way into heaven in the Middle Ages, you could sort of pay someone to go, yeah, you can make sure I'm okay when I get there, though.

00:43:18.000 That kind of nonsense came along afterwards when it had all kind of...

00:43:22.000 Corruption.

00:43:23.000 Yeah.

00:43:24.000 The corruption and the...

00:43:25.000 Interesting.

00:43:26.000 Yeah.

00:43:26.000 I had heard that it was connected to celibacy and that initially there was no celibacy clause.

00:43:33.000 No, that came in the Middle Ages.

00:43:35.000 So it was that thing of they wanted to be more like Christ, who was celibate.

00:43:41.000 And so they went, well, I'm going to be, you know, one priest said, well, I'm going to be more like him, live like Christ.

00:43:46.000 I'm going to be celibate, not have a wife.

00:43:47.000 And then that kind of took off as an idea. 0.76

00:43:49.000 That's interesting because what I heard was that they were banging all the women. 1.00

00:43:54.000 Because the priests were rock stars. 0.83

00:43:56.000 I mean, if you have a community where the priest is literally connected to God, and he's a biological male, and he's horny, and these women worshipped him and came to them for...

00:44:08.000 It's the original show business.

00:44:09.000 I mean, if we were doing, if we were who we are in the 13th century, 100% priests.

00:44:15.000 Or gestures.

00:44:16.000 I can get up in front of these people and talk to them for an hour a week.

00:44:19.000 Right.

00:44:20.000 Done.

00:44:20.000 Right.

00:44:21.000 Yes, put me down for one of those.

00:44:22.000 Right. 1.00

00:44:23.000 And they'd seek guidance from you, you'd get all these accolades, and apparently they were allowed to have sex with women, and they were fucking everybody. 1.00

00:44:30.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:44:31.000 Just like rock stars, because they were probably the most popular people in the town.

00:44:34.000 The other thing that ties...

00:44:35.000 That's very interesting.

00:44:36.000 The other thing that ties it to...

00:44:38.000 There's often been, and it's a very unpleasant thing, but there's often been a conflation between homosexuality and pedophilia, which is so... 1.00

00:44:46.000 It's just fucking nonsense. 1.00

00:44:48.000 Right. 1.00

00:44:48.000 It's nonsense. 1.00

00:44:49.000 It's nonsense, but it keeps on kind of rearing its head in a weird way. 0.99

00:44:52.000 But there is something with the Catholic Church where it's hard to remember how vilified gay guys were a generation ago, let alone two generations ago. 0.97

00:45:04.000 Yeah, well, very recently, in the 90s.

00:45:08.000 It's crazy, but it's true.

00:45:10.000 So there's a weird thing where, okay, so let's say you're a gay guy in, I don't know, 1890. You knew you were gay when you were 14 or whatever. 0.50

00:45:19.000 Everyone else is getting married and going off, and you go, I'm a gay guy. 0.82

00:45:22.000 The priesthood was a smart move. 0.89

00:45:25.000 Because you want, well, I don't have to get married.

00:45:27.000 And I know I'm not about that, so I'll join the priesthood.

00:45:29.000 So you join the priesthood. 0.99

00:45:30.000 You're a gay guy. 1.00

00:45:31.000 There were other gay guys that had the idea. 0.92

00:45:33.000 Great.

00:45:34.000 Now, here's the weird thing.

00:45:37.000 Paedophilia was the same level sin in the eyes of the church at that level.

00:45:43.000 So one covered for the other. 0.99

00:45:45.000 It was all, you were all damned and going to hell. 1.00

00:45:47.000 It was all terrible. 1.00

00:45:49.000 Which is obviously some fucking nonsense. 1.00

00:45:52.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:45:53.000 Yeah.

00:45:54.000 Well, there's also there's a different attitude towards same sex minors and adults that is with some people in the gay community.

00:46:05.000 In fact, there was a law that they were trying to pass In California, where they were saying that the age of consent being 18 was in somehow or another anti-LBGTQ because some young men sought mentors in older gay men,

00:46:26.000 some young men who are gay.

00:46:28.000 I mean, that sounds like some... 0.78

00:46:29.000 Wasn't there...

00:46:29.000 Was it Klein?

00:46:31.000 Is that what his name?

00:46:31.000 There's a politician in California that was very controversial because he was promoting this.

00:46:36.000 It's going to be controversial because he's promoting pedophilia.

00:46:38.000 Yeah, that's going to be controversial.

00:46:40.000 Well, I think his idea was like 16 and 17-year-old boys and that that should be okay, which is, you know, it gets very sketchy.

00:46:51.000 Let's wind it back.

00:46:52.000 Here's something that we could do, right?

00:46:53.000 Here's something we could start a campaign for.

00:46:55.000 Those laws about, you know, at the age of consent in the UK is 16. Yeah.

00:46:59.000 But those laws should be for 17 and 18-year-old boys.

00:47:03.000 Yes.

00:47:03.000 They shouldn't apply to us.

00:47:05.000 Right.

00:47:05.000 It shouldn't apply to a 55-year-old man.

00:47:07.000 So Romeo and Juliet law, I think they have it in New York.

00:47:09.000 They have it in certain states where you go...

00:47:11.000 Yeah, that's the age of consent is 16 for her. 0.98

00:47:14.000 And that guy who's 17 and it's her boyfriend and they've come up at school together.

00:47:18.000 That makes sense.

00:47:19.000 And then at 18 maybe, okay, go and do whatever you're going to do.

00:47:24.000 I remember when I was 18 years old, when I turned 18, my girlfriend was a year younger than me and she was 17. And I was terrified that I was going to go to jail.

00:47:35.000 Because I was a legal adult and she was still a child.

00:47:40.000 Right.

00:47:41.000 Even though we started dating when I was 16. No, I was 17 and she was 16. And then when I turned 18, I was like, oh my god.

00:47:53.000 Could I get in jail for this?

00:47:54.000 I remember thinking that.

00:47:56.000 Like, is this illegal?

00:47:57.000 Because it kind of technically is.

00:48:00.000 I think if you're dating a girl like that.

00:48:02.000 I mean, this is 1985. So Gavin Newsom signed a law that could give judges a say on whether to list someone as a sex offender for having oral or anal sex with a minor. 0.95

00:48:13.000 The bill would expand discretion currently granted judges in statutory rape charges as promoted by bringing fairness under the law to LBGTQ defendants.

00:48:23.000 The current law, in place for decades, permits judges to decide whether a man should be placed on California's sex offender registry if he had voluntary intercourse with someone from 14 to 17 years old and was no more than 10 years older than the person.

00:48:37.000 Right.

00:48:38.000 I don't want to come to your show and be all controversial, but I think, broadly speaking, don't be a paedophile.

00:48:44.000 Right.

00:48:44.000 I think that's a good thing to say.

00:48:45.000 But that discretion says only apply to a man who had vaginal intercourse. 0.96

00:48:50.000 The new law changes permits – the new change, rather, permits judges to use the same discretion when the case involves voluntary oral or anal sex.

00:49:00.000 The measure won't apply when a minor is under 14, when the gap is larger than 10 years, or when either party says the sex wasn't consensual.

00:49:10.000 The law does not change the age of consent in California, which is 18. Adults caught having sex with minors will still face statutory rape charges.

00:49:19.000 Yeah, Scott Wiener.

00:49:20.000 That's the guy.

00:49:21.000 San Francisco Democrat.

00:49:22.000 Great name.

00:49:23.000 Great name for the guy.

00:49:24.000 Yeah.

00:49:24.000 Isn't it funny how those Wiener guys keep getting in trouble?

00:49:26.000 Anthony Wiener, Scott Wiener?

00:49:28.000 Nominative determinism.

00:49:29.000 It's a thing.

00:49:30.000 It's like the simulation theory.

00:49:32.000 It's like the universe is playing little jokes on you.

00:49:34.000 It's like...

00:49:35.000 But this guy, like, there's photos of this guy at gay pride parades, like, wearing a dog collar, like, you know, he's...

00:49:43.000 I mean, that's...

00:49:44.000 I got zero problem with that.

00:49:46.000 I got a problem with him saying...

00:49:48.000 Let's just quote on it.

00:49:48.000 I think the article continued.

00:49:50.000 The law ends discrimination by treating LGBTQ young people the exact same way that straight young people have been treated since 1944, Wiener said in a statement, adding, today California took yet another step towards equitable society. 0.87

00:50:03.000 So what that seems to me is like there was a law already in place giving judges discretion, but it was only for vaginal sex, and he thought that it should apply to oral and anal sex.

00:50:11.000 It seems like the law is the issue, right? 0.98

00:50:14.000 Because 10 years old, if someone's 26, another person's 16, or 15 and 25, that's crazy.

00:50:22.000 There's a reason why it's 18. 18 is reasonable.

00:50:25.000 And I think you have to give people agency at some point.

00:50:28.000 At some point you have to give people agency and go, look, you're allowed to make your own decisions now.

00:50:31.000 Do as you please.

00:50:32.000 Yes.

00:50:33.000 I mean, you are certainly a young person at 18, but if you're a young man at 18 and you decide to have sex with a man who's 30 years old, that's completely reasonable. 0.84

00:50:41.000 I think it's also, you know, try telling an 18-year-old they're not...

00:50:44.000 Right.

00:50:45.000 I mean, it's a weird thing.

00:50:46.000 I wonder in the future, because the mind, your brain isn't fully developed.

00:50:51.000 I think it's 25. Well, 25 is the age your frontal cortex is fully formed, I believe, as a male.

00:50:58.000 Do you think...

00:50:59.000 I think for females, females like mentally mature earlier than men, too. 0.54

00:51:04.000 I wonder what age it is.

00:51:05.000 They're generally smarter than men.

00:51:07.000 I wonder in a generation's time, will everyone go... 1.00

00:51:10.000 Sorry, you were fucking a 21-year-old. 0.97

00:51:13.000 I wonder, will it ever go the other way? 1.00

00:51:15.000 That seems silly.

00:51:17.000 Especially men and women. 0.98

00:51:18.000 I mean, if it's a 21-year-old man, a 30-year-old woman has sex with you, she's going to be brought up on charges. 0.52

00:51:23.000 That's insane.

00:51:24.000 You had that great bit about that.

00:51:26.000 Yeah.

00:51:27.000 I said there's no sexual equality when it comes to child molesting.

00:51:30.000 I said because a grown man can molest a 16-year-old girl, but a grown woman can't really molest a 16-year-old boy. 1.00

00:51:37.000 She can only let him fuck her. 1.00

00:51:39.000 Like, what's the worst thing that happened? 1.00

00:51:41.000 You found out about something awesome early? 1.00

00:51:43.000 Like, poor Billy got his dick sucked by the hot teacher. 1.00

00:51:46.000 He's never going to recover. 1.00

00:51:48.000 It's very good.

00:51:49.000 Thank you.

00:51:49.000 And we're not denigrating the suffering of men that have been molested.

00:51:53.000 No, no, no, no.

00:51:53.000 But it's always like...

00:51:54.000 Dimitri Martin had a great line on that as well. 0.99

00:51:56.000 He said something about some guy that fucked his teacher. 0.99

00:51:58.000 And Dimitri said, yeah, he died. 1.00

00:52:00.000 He got high-fived to death.

00:52:01.000 I think that was Zach Galifianakis.

00:52:03.000 Was that Zach?

00:52:04.000 I think so.

00:52:05.000 I think it's Dimitri.

00:52:06.000 You might be right.

00:52:07.000 I mean, those guys are both phenomenal writers.

00:52:10.000 I think it might have been Galifianakis.

00:52:12.000 But either way, great joke.

00:52:14.000 But it's a high-five to death.

00:52:16.000 But it's a difference.

00:52:18.000 There's a difference.

00:52:19.000 And it's also the difference in how we...

00:52:21.000 It's unfortunate, but there's a prejudice about women having sex versus men having sex, that a woman is being taken advantage of by the man, that they don't have agency,

00:52:37.000 whereas the man is the pursuer and the predator.

00:52:41.000 So there's an aspect of that that goes along with it.

00:52:47.000 We don't think of a 16-year-old boy having sex with a hot 30-year-old woman as that boy being molested.

00:52:54.000 We just don't.

00:52:56.000 Yeah, well, I suppose, you know, increasingly, you know, we will.

00:52:59.000 I haven't given it a lot of thought, but it does strike me that that thing of, like, agency and being 18 and being a grown-up in society.

00:53:05.000 I suppose the problem is that thing, what's that book, is it Jonathan Haidt, The Coddling of the American Mind?

00:53:12.000 That idea of going, if there's no freedom for kids anymore...

00:53:16.000 Like, you're not allowed to go and play on your own.

00:53:18.000 You're not allowed to leave the house and mess around.

00:53:21.000 And, you know, the only freedom you have now as a kid is online.

00:53:25.000 So you're not allowed to go and experience that thing of being out in the world.

00:53:28.000 And danger.

00:53:29.000 Yeah.

00:53:29.000 And knowing what's safe and what's not safe and having experiences with people that are sketchy.

00:53:35.000 So then, if you don't get any of that until you're 18, and then suddenly you get all of that.

00:53:40.000 But you've not been drip fed it.

00:53:41.000 Right.

00:53:42.000 Like that thing of like, I know what your childhood was like.

00:53:44.000 We were pretty, you know, grew up in Slough, quite sort of working class to the west of London.

00:53:51.000 And we were a nice little bit and we would go out on bikes in the morning and you would come back for your dinner in the evening.

00:53:58.000 You would just be out for the day.

00:54:00.000 Same.

00:54:01.000 Yeah, my childhood was very similar.

00:54:04.000 No, that's almost like child abuse.

00:54:07.000 It's almost like neglecting your parental duties.

00:54:10.000 Just let your kid just roam out of the house and come back at dinner.

00:54:13.000 14-year-olds used to be babysitters.

00:54:16.000 Now 14-year-olds need babysitters.

00:54:18.000 And I don't think anything's changed about humanity.

00:54:20.000 So I think the idea that you go, you have agency at 18, but it goes from 0 to 60. Yes.

00:54:28.000 In one day.

00:54:29.000 Right.

00:54:29.000 That's a good point.

00:54:30.000 The drinking age is 21 here.

00:54:31.000 It's 18 at home.

00:54:32.000 But you go, well, actually, everyone assumes in the UK you're going to drink a little bit when you're 14 in the park with your friends.

00:54:39.000 There's a little bit of that.

00:54:44.000 When I was in high school, the first girlfriend that I had, she had a single mom, and she was essentially on her own and left to roam around from the time she was very young.

00:54:55.000 She had been going to concerts when she was 12 and 13 years old, and she had already had sex before I had.

00:55:02.000 She was a year younger than me, and when we met, I was a virgin, and she wasn't.

00:55:06.000 And so it was, you know, she was more worldly and mature than I was.

00:55:12.000 Like, she knew how to go to concerts.

00:55:14.000 She knew how to get backstage and meet people. 0.84

00:55:15.000 The idea that we're saying, you know, an age like 18, every 18, you know, oh, that's just a solid state.

00:55:20.000 Everyone's the same.

00:55:21.000 Everyone's different.

00:55:22.000 Very different.

00:55:23.000 Everyone comes to it from a very different perspective.

00:55:25.000 Sure.

00:55:25.000 People mature at different speeds.

00:55:26.000 It's very, I mean, there'll be young people listening to this as well.

00:55:28.000 It's that thing where it seems like such a race when you're young. 0.99

00:55:31.000 Yes.

00:55:32.000 To get there, to do everything.

00:55:34.000 To be grown up.

00:55:34.000 And you feel like you need to make all the decisions when you're 19. Okay, which college degree?

00:55:41.000 What am I going to do in life?

00:55:44.000 It's a panic.

00:55:45.000 Well, that's what's so predatory about America, because that's when student loans come in. 0.76

00:55:48.000 And you get shackled up with these student loans that you can never get out of debt with.

00:55:54.000 Student loans in America, I don't know how you have it in the UK. You have free education, right?

00:55:59.000 No, we used to have free education.

00:56:00.000 So when I went to college, it was free.

00:56:02.000 You had to pay for your kind of bed and board.

00:56:05.000 And it was free.

00:56:06.000 I went to university.

00:56:08.000 I got a free education.

00:56:09.000 It feels ridiculous that we let that go.

00:56:13.000 And maybe it's like, okay, so if it's too expensive, then I can see an argument to say, well, on academic merit, we cut the number of places until we can afford for it to be free.

00:56:26.000 But it's free for everyone.

00:56:28.000 Well, it certainly benefits the greater good of society to have more people educated.

00:56:32.000 And what greater thing to spend tax dollars on?

00:56:35.000 I think?

00:56:52.000 And then you're absolved of that debt.

00:56:54.000 If you get a student loan, you are never absolved of that debt.

00:56:58.000 You must pay that debt, and the interest keeps increasing over time.

00:57:01.000 Well, you know what I'm hearing here.

00:57:02.000 What?

00:57:02.000 We need to get into the student debt business.

00:57:04.000 It sounds like you can't lose.

00:57:06.000 You think you're making money in comedy?

00:57:07.000 On podcasts?

00:57:09.000 Please.

00:57:09.000 The real money is in student debt.

00:57:11.000 And it's pushed on people because everybody feels like they have to go to college or they're going to be a loser.

00:57:15.000 And there's people right now in America that are getting Social Security money, and their Social Security money is getting docked because they owe student loans.

00:57:25.000 So you're at the end of your life.

00:57:29.000 A college degree now is a luxury good.

00:57:33.000 It's like a Louis Vuitton handbag.

00:57:35.000 So you get the luxury good.

00:57:37.000 But what can you do with it?

00:57:39.000 What's the benefit?

00:57:40.000 Well, it really depends on the degree, right?

00:57:42.000 Some things like your medical degree.

00:57:44.000 Yeah, you need a degree.

00:57:45.000 Engineer.

00:57:46.000 Something like that.

00:57:47.000 But if it's just an arts degree.

00:57:48.000 Gender studies.

00:57:50.000 Then you go, well, what are you going to do with that degree?

00:57:52.000 Like, the map is not the territory.

00:57:55.000 Who would you rather employ?

00:57:58.000 You know, someone with an MBA or someone who's got two failed startups?

00:58:02.000 Failed startups, please.

00:58:03.000 You know, someone that's been in the trenches and tried it and done it.

00:58:06.000 You know, so I think that thing of...

00:58:08.000 I don't know what advice you would give an 18-year-old today.

00:58:12.000 It would really depend upon what they want to do.

00:58:15.000 I mean, I'm the worst person to give that advice because of my childhood and the way I grew up, very unstable, divorced parents, stepdad, moved to a new place all the time.

00:58:29.000 I was terrified of rigidity.

00:58:32.000 I was terrified of a job.

00:58:34.000 I really felt like a loser because I felt like all these people can keep jobs.

00:58:39.000 Why do I hate them so much?

00:58:42.000 Because it's interesting.

00:58:43.000 What I see in you, and I don't know you that well personally, but I see your work.

00:58:49.000 And the thing flowing through it is discipline.

00:58:52.000 Discipline and freedom seem to be the two things.

00:58:55.000 And you go, and obviously those things have been separated in our minds.

00:58:58.000 But discipline and freedom are not the same.

00:59:00.000 They're exactly the same.

00:59:00.000 Discipline gives you freedom.

00:59:02.000 Yeah, that's Jocko Willink.

00:59:03.000 That's what he says.

00:59:04.000 Discipline equals freedom.

00:59:05.000 Exactly right, right?

00:59:06.000 So that idea of going, well, it's martial arts, which is all discipline.

00:59:09.000 It's stand-up, which I know is all discipline.

00:59:13.000 Everyone's got ideas.

00:59:14.000 Everyone talks a good game.

00:59:15.000 It's in the execution.

00:59:16.000 It's in doing it.

00:59:17.000 So that thing of going, couldn't hold down a job.

00:59:19.000 But I mean, you're pretty good at showing up to stuff.

00:59:21.000 Well, I realized later that it was just I wasn't interested in those things.

00:59:27.000 And what I was terrified of is being forced to do something that I wasn't interested in forever.

00:59:31.000 And I saw so many people that they would just wait until they got home every night and just get drunk and then do it all over again in the morning and then their bodies were deteriorating and they all wound up getting cancer and getting sick and they all died young.

00:59:44.000 It was sad and depressing and gloomy.

00:59:48.000 It's work to live as opposed to live to work.

00:59:50.000 Yes.

00:59:51.000 So your thing is, you know, work is the fun stuff.

00:59:56.000 It's all the stuff that you're passionate about.

00:59:58.000 You try and make that your career.

00:59:59.000 That's very good.

01:00:01.000 Advice for anyone that's young listening to this, like, what are you interested in?

01:00:05.000 What do you pay attention to?

01:00:07.000 Do that.

01:00:08.000 Do that.

01:00:09.000 You know, because that 10,000 hours thing, it slightly loses the, what could you stand to do for 10,000 hours?

01:00:17.000 10,000 hours is the minimum.

01:00:18.000 I don't think there's any mastery in 10,000 hours.

01:00:20.000 Right.

01:00:21.000 You become a professional at 10,000 hours.

01:00:23.000 Yeah.

01:00:24.000 Well, with me, I just, when I got into martial arts, then I realized, like, oh, I'm not lazy.

01:00:30.000 I'm just not interested in those other things.

01:00:33.000 And then when I got into martial arts, I was extremely disciplined, like, fanatically.

01:00:38.000 Like, I trained every day.

01:00:40.000 I literally lived at the gym.

01:00:43.000 I taught.

01:00:44.000 You're preaching to the choir.

01:00:46.000 You can't beat your environment.

01:00:47.000 No.

01:00:48.000 And that thing of finding your tribe, finding your thing.

01:00:51.000 So a lot of people that are lost just haven't found their tribe, their thing.

01:00:54.000 It's hard if you haven't found it yet because you kind of go, well, it's easy for you to say you found it.

01:00:58.000 I was also not around people that were following their passions.

01:01:02.000 Everyone that I was around was working.

01:01:04.000 You know, we lived in a blue-collar community, and it was surrounded by a white-collar community, and these people that had all worked really hard, got a very good education, and got a respectable job, either as a doctor or a lawyer or an accountant or whatever, and they had a wonderful home, and they worked well.

01:01:21.000 I looked at them as like these deteriorating vessels of flesh that were barely getting by in the world and I didn't want to do what they were doing.

01:01:29.000 And I didn't know until I got into martial arts that there were people that were doing different things and that they were surviving and thriving, teaching something that they loved.

01:01:39.000 And so that was my path.

01:01:40.000 My path was competition and teaching.

01:01:43.000 It's interesting, the teaching thing, because if I think of your stand-up career, you've done what you've done in stand-up and now you're building a club and, you know, you've lowered a rope and you're pulling people up.

01:01:55.000 Well, it was also I learned how to talk in front of people.

01:01:58.000 Because I was painfully shy and socially awkward as a kid.

01:02:02.000 I'd have anxiety going to a bank teller, that I was going to have to talk to the bank teller.

01:02:08.000 I remember that.

01:02:09.000 What is wrong with me?

01:02:10.000 I remember being 16 years old, having to deposit a check and just being so nervous, getting up to the teller.

01:02:16.000 I don't think that's you.

01:02:18.000 I think that's being 16. I think being a teenager is about being slightly uncomfortable in your own skin and deciding who you're going to be.

01:02:25.000 Yes.

01:02:25.000 I worry for the future generations coming up now because of Facebook.

01:02:31.000 Because something like Facebook connects you to your past in a way that we don't have.

01:02:36.000 So I reinvented myself a couple of times.

01:02:39.000 Yes, me too.

01:02:39.000 I was 16 and I moved schools.

01:02:43.000 And it seems like a trivial thing to move school from one grammar school to another grammar school, kind of who cares?

01:02:49.000 But it just allowed me to kind of go, oh, I didn't really behave that well at that school.

01:02:53.000 I kind of messed around.

01:02:55.000 I was a ne'er-do-well.

01:02:56.000 And then I got to the new one and went, I think I might go to Cambridge.

01:02:59.000 I think I might be really academic.

01:03:01.000 And everyone went, okay.

01:03:04.000 Right.

01:03:04.000 Okay, yeah.

01:03:05.000 Be that guy.

01:03:05.000 No, that's Jimmy.

01:03:06.000 He's a fucking loser. 1.00

01:03:08.000 When I would go back to my town that I grew up in later in life, if I'd visit, I would get nervous. 1.00

01:03:16.000 And when I'd go near my high school, I'd feel terrible.

01:03:18.000 I used to have nightmares that I'd have to go back to school.

01:03:21.000 I didn't really graduate.

01:03:22.000 I had to go back.

01:03:23.000 Isn't that a lovely feeling in stand-up?

01:03:25.000 I was a couple of years in and I realized, I'm never going to need my resume again.

01:03:31.000 It's done.

01:03:32.000 No one's ever going to care about my exam results again.

01:03:35.000 It's a very freeing thing to go, that was great, but none of that matters anymore.

01:03:42.000 I wasn't interested in academic things at all.

01:03:47.000 I read a lot, but everything I read was fiction.

01:03:50.000 And I would only read because I was on the train getting to the Taekwondo school.

01:03:54.000 I used to read fiction voraciously.

01:03:58.000 And when I started doing comedy, I stopped.

01:04:01.000 I didn't need the stories anymore.

01:04:03.000 Interesting.

01:04:03.000 Now I read non-fiction, voraciously, but I like non-fiction, but I don't feel like I need the stories because I'm doing something creative.

01:04:10.000 I think it was that part of me that wanted that.

01:04:13.000 It's like, I've got an outlet now.

01:04:14.000 I found the outlet.

01:04:15.000 Yes.

01:04:16.000 Which is, you know, God, you'd love that for everyone, wouldn't you?

01:04:18.000 I would love that for everyone.

01:04:19.000 I would love it for everyone to be able to do something that excites them.

01:04:22.000 Whether it's making tables or knives or, you know, building houses.

01:04:28.000 Like, whatever the thing is that really gets you...

01:04:31.000 Unfortunately, a lot of people don't find that.

01:04:33.000 Yeah.

01:04:34.000 Well, it is hard to find.

01:04:35.000 I mean, it's a life's journey.

01:04:36.000 There's two great adventures in life.

01:04:39.000 One is finding what you want to do, and the second is doing it.

01:04:42.000 And tragically, most people don't get to do either.

01:04:45.000 Right.

01:04:45.000 You want that for everyone.

01:04:46.000 Well, especially if you get captured early, and that's what I was talking about with the student loan thing.

01:04:50.000 You get trapped in debt, and then you're on this path to a career, and then along the way, someone says, hey, have you ever thought about doing comedy?

01:04:59.000 And you're like, oh, my God.

01:05:00.000 I'm so tired when I get out of here.

01:05:01.000 I just want to go have a meal and go to sleep.

01:05:04.000 And you're thinking about finding a woman and settle down and having kids.

01:05:08.000 I used to work for a big oil company.

01:05:11.000 Oh, really?

01:05:11.000 When I was in my mid-twenties, I worked for Shell Oil.

01:05:14.000 I was in marketing for Shell.

01:05:15.000 And I very nearly bought a place.

01:05:18.000 I very nearly bought a flat.

01:05:19.000 And that thing of the things you own end up owning you.

01:05:22.000 Oh, yeah.

01:05:23.000 I think I'd still be there.

01:05:25.000 And it would have been a good life.

01:05:27.000 I mean...

01:05:29.000 Not this life, but it would have been good.

01:05:30.000 But that thing of the good is the enemy of the best.

01:05:32.000 I think people now, 18 to 21, going, you should be taking risks.

01:05:39.000 Big risks.

01:05:40.000 Big swings.

01:05:41.000 You should also be surrounded by people that are also doing the same so you can learn from each other.

01:05:46.000 If you're a lone person on an island out there taking risks, it's very difficult to assess whether or not you're on the right path or whether or not it's viable.

01:05:54.000 Yeah.

01:05:54.000 One of the beautiful things about stand-up and one of the things I love about the club is all these young risk-takers are around people that are the same and that are maybe 10 years ahead of them.

01:06:02.000 And we talk all the time.

01:06:04.000 You know, I ask them, like, are you doing gigs?

01:06:06.000 Are you doing the road?

01:06:07.000 Like, what's going on?

01:06:07.000 How are you doing?

01:06:08.000 Are you working on new stuff?

01:06:09.000 How many gigs in is always the thing.

01:06:09.000 How often do you write?

01:06:10.000 I always think that thing of going to young comics, How many shows?

01:06:15.000 Because it's like airline pilots.

01:06:17.000 We're like airline pilots.

01:06:18.000 It's not really about how many years you've been doing comedy.

01:06:21.000 Right.

01:06:21.000 It's about...

01:06:22.000 You know, when you talk to an airline pilot, they tell you how many hours they got in the sky.

01:06:26.000 Yeah.

01:06:26.000 And I feel like hours on stage.

01:06:28.000 How many shows you done?

01:06:29.000 Yes.

01:06:29.000 That's the thing.

01:06:30.000 I'm like 250 on the year.

01:06:32.000 Yeah.

01:06:32.000 And I feel like, okay, I'm in a groove.

01:06:34.000 Yes.

01:06:35.000 Like, it's that thing of, like, you're match fit for this thing.

01:06:38.000 One of the things that we found in L.A. is that...

01:06:42.000 Like when I was doing the Comedy Store and the Improv and the Ice House and going back and forth and doing, you know, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then I'd go on the road Friday and Saturday.

01:06:54.000 You get this groove where you just kind of know how to make something funny.

01:07:00.000 And so it's easier to create new material as well.

01:07:02.000 You get this, you hit this vibration.

01:07:06.000 And then if I had to take time off, that's one of the things that I found that was terrifying during COVID is I took like four months off.

01:07:13.000 You know, because everything was shut down.

01:07:14.000 And then I came to Texas to do shows.

01:07:16.000 I first did the Houston Improv, and that was in July.

01:07:22.000 So March, everything was shut down in July.

01:07:24.000 Only Texas and a couple other places were allowing you to do shows.

01:07:27.000 And I came out here to do shows.

01:07:30.000 And I had to listen to recordings.

01:07:33.000 Sorry, four months.

01:07:34.000 Cry me a river.

01:07:35.000 We did about a year and a half in the UK. In the United States, most places did that.

01:07:40.000 In New York, you had to be vaccinated to go to the clubs.

01:07:43.000 That was like a year later.

01:07:44.000 Los Angeles was a year and a half.

01:07:45.000 You know the gratitude here?

01:07:46.000 The gratitude is it brought you to Austin.

01:07:48.000 Yes.

01:07:49.000 It brought you to this place.

01:07:50.000 You set up your own club.

01:07:51.000 You've got this community around you.

01:07:53.000 People have come out with you.

01:07:54.000 It feels like it's the silver lining on that terrible time.

01:07:59.000 Well, it wasn't a terrible time.

01:08:00.000 It was a time of change.

01:08:01.000 And it was also a time of realization that...

01:08:04.000 Oh my god, the power went out.

01:08:07.000 I guess whoever... 0.99

01:08:09.000 That Jimmy Savile guy's got more power than you fucking think. 0.98

01:08:11.000 Are you still recording? 0.99

01:08:12.000 No.

01:08:12.000 It seems like the mics are still on.

01:08:15.000 Yeah.

01:08:15.000 Do we hit a circuit breaker or something?

01:08:17.000 Everything except for my main audio is still recording.

01:08:20.000 So the video is still recording?

01:08:21.000 Yeah.

01:08:21.000 Wow.

01:08:22.000 Interesting.

01:08:22.000 Exciting.

01:08:23.000 What should we do here?

01:08:24.000 This is fun.

01:08:24.000 Let's do this.

01:08:25.000 Pick five.

01:08:27.000 What do you think it is?

01:08:28.000 Hi.

01:08:29.000 Huh?

01:08:29.000 You think it's circuit breakers?

01:08:31.000 I think it's the deep state.

01:08:32.000 Oh, they're back.

01:08:32.000 We're back.

01:08:32.000 Yeah.

01:08:33.000 I think the deep state are on to us. 1.00

01:08:34.000 You guys are talking too much shit. 1.00

01:08:35.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:08:36.000 I don't like what you said about the Kennedy assassination.

01:08:38.000 Oh, I tell you, the other thing I was going to say about...

01:08:40.000 Reset it?

01:08:40.000 Okay.

01:08:40.000 Should we pause?

01:08:41.000 Pause?

01:08:42.000 No, I mean, I'm trying...

01:08:44.000 Are we recording or not?

01:08:45.000 Technically, I can fix it.

01:08:46.000 We can have a conversation even if we're not recording it.

01:08:48.000 You know that, right?

01:08:49.000 Maybe I'll take a pee.

01:08:50.000 Shall I take a pee?

01:08:51.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:08:51.000 Let's take a pee and we'll figure it out.

01:08:52.000 Sounds good.

01:08:53.000 All right.

01:08:53.000 This is fun, man.

01:08:54.000 It's very fun.

01:08:55.000 I'll be back in one second.

01:08:57.000 What are we chatting about?

01:09:00.000 I don't remember.

01:09:02.000 People following their dreams, how difficult it is.

01:09:06.000 It is hard.

01:09:07.000 Et cetera, et cetera.

01:09:08.000 Taking risks.

01:09:08.000 Yeah, it is.

01:09:09.000 It's so confusing as a young person where the path is not clearly laid out and you don't know what choice to make.

01:09:18.000 One choice could be disastrous.

01:09:19.000 One choice could be advantageous.

01:09:21.000 Well, I think as well, there's certain professions.

01:09:23.000 And I hope comedy in a generation becomes like being a musician.

01:09:28.000 You can see what to do.

01:09:29.000 But it's not like being a doctor now.

01:09:31.000 It's a very hard thing to do to be a doctor.

01:09:33.000 But you always know what the next step is.

01:09:35.000 And with being a professional comedian, it's sometimes very difficult to know how to get that first rung of the ladder.

01:09:41.000 But taking the risk of taking a shot, it's that thing of like...

01:09:45.000 Taking risks on things that are reversible as opposed to irreversible.

01:09:49.000 Yes.

01:09:49.000 Having a kid, irreversible decision.

01:09:51.000 If you have a kid, it's a big commitment.

01:09:53.000 That's forever.

01:09:53.000 Great.

01:09:55.000 There's lots of things people worry about, like giving up their job.

01:09:57.000 And you go, yeah, just give up your job.

01:09:59.000 You'll find another job.

01:10:00.000 Yeah, but they're just so terrified that someone else is going to get ahead of them.

01:10:02.000 There's other folks that are in the same position, and you're going to take two years off and come back, and they'll be your boss now.

01:10:08.000 Well, that thing, I wish I'd heard it earlier in life, that thing of, like, you're only in competition with you last year.

01:10:14.000 I'm trying to work on this thing at the moment.

01:10:16.000 I was chatting to my friend, Chris Williamson, who does that.

01:10:18.000 I love Chris.

01:10:19.000 Oh, he's amazing.

01:10:20.000 We're chatting about like, what's the, I think there might be a book idea in this.

01:10:24.000 Like, I'm trying to live for me in 24 hours time.

01:10:28.000 I'm trying to do things today that I'll be happy I did tomorrow.

01:10:31.000 It's that very simplistic, short timescale, like living for the future self.

01:10:37.000 You can give yourself gifts in the future.

01:10:39.000 So I'm now trying to do a thing like, just super simple, trying to try new jokes at every single show.

01:10:44.000 Doesn't matter where I'm doing a gig, doesn't matter how big the gig.

01:10:47.000 Get out a notepad and do jokes at the end. 0.98

01:10:49.000 At the end of 90 minutes, do some new shit and see what works. 0.96

01:10:53.000 Because that's the thing that makes you, well, have to write some new stuff today. 0.99

01:10:56.000 Have to have some stuff to do tonight at the mothership.

01:10:59.000 And it forces you, all that thing of like, I'm not going to eat that because I'm going to feel terrible tomorrow.

01:11:03.000 The future is, I didn't get that until recently.

01:11:07.000 There's an interesting thing about God is the future.

01:11:12.000 God is an analogy for the future.

01:11:15.000 Work hard now for a better life in the future.

01:11:19.000 So that was, have a good life here, so paradise.

01:11:22.000 But that lesson is the whole of self-help, is the whole of, you know, hard choices now, easy life later.

01:11:29.000 Yeah, but there's also this thought that one day you're going to get somewhere and you'll have, air quotes, made it.

01:11:34.000 And that's not real either.

01:11:36.000 Even though if you're successful, you're still just on this path.

01:11:40.000 But getting there isn't half the fun.

01:11:42.000 It's all the fun.

01:11:43.000 It's that thing of going, why do I want to put together a course on stand-up comedy?

01:11:48.000 Why do I want to go and play arenas now?

01:11:50.000 Isn't it enough?

01:11:51.000 Well, no, because I want to feel outside my comfort zone.

01:11:53.000 I want to feel like I'm beginning again.

01:11:55.000 I want to feel like I'm on a road going somewhere again.

01:11:58.000 And when I get there...

01:11:59.000 There'll be another place to go.

01:12:01.000 Yes.

01:12:23.000 Kind of depressing.

01:12:25.000 I mean, they're great.

01:12:26.000 You're in the trenches.

01:12:26.000 You're doing something together.

01:12:28.000 You finish the, ah.

01:12:30.000 Yes.

01:12:30.000 It's kind of depressing.

01:12:31.000 Like, finishing school is kind of, ah.

01:12:33.000 Yeah.

01:12:33.000 But a task without end, like being a stand-up comedian, trying to be a better stand-up comedian.

01:12:38.000 Mm-hmm.

01:12:38.000 So if there's a Mount Rushmore of comedy, we could be two faces on that.

01:12:43.000 We're not.

01:12:44.000 We could be.

01:12:45.000 At some stage.

01:12:46.000 Yeah.

01:12:47.000 That feels like it's the never-ending task of going, could you be better at this?

01:12:52.000 Yeah.

01:12:52.000 Because there are people doing it better than me.

01:12:54.000 Yeah, and that's one of the beautiful things about people that are doing it better than you.

01:12:57.000 It's so inspirational.

01:12:59.000 I love it.

01:13:00.000 I mean, that thing of like, you go and see any show.

01:13:01.000 Yeah.

01:13:02.000 If it's terrible, you get something from it.

01:13:04.000 If I go and see a show and it's genuinely...

01:13:08.000 Terrible writing, but he sold it.

01:13:10.000 I go, well, that performance, I could learn something.

01:13:12.000 It's often the people you dismiss early on.

01:13:14.000 Like, if someone wants to be a professional comedian and they go, I don't like that comedian.

01:13:19.000 I go, are you ready to be a professional?

01:13:22.000 Like?

01:13:22.000 I don't care what you like.

01:13:24.000 What did you learn?

01:13:27.000 Can you see what they did?

01:13:28.000 And it's often the thing that you're bad at.

01:13:31.000 Is the thing that they do so well.

01:13:33.000 It's like for years, I didn't really get charming.

01:13:37.000 Because I work on charisma.

01:13:39.000 So charming for me is like, the guy didn't have anything.

01:13:43.000 But then you look at charm, you look at how people...

01:13:45.000 Because I think those words are conflated in our worlds, right?

01:13:48.000 Charm and charisma.

01:13:49.000 But like, Donald Trump is charismatic.

01:13:52.000 Obama is charming.

01:13:54.000 Charisma is, you come to me.

01:13:57.000 Charm is, I come to you.

01:13:58.000 Obama, look at his speech pattern, his head to the side.

01:14:01.000 He's like this super welcoming, we're going to find common ground here.

01:14:07.000 Trump is, you come to me.

01:14:08.000 No matter what you think of them politically, one is one, one is the other.

01:14:11.000 Angelina Jolie is charismatic.

01:14:14.000 Jennifer Aniston is charming. 1.00

01:14:17.000 They both get to fuck Brad Pitt. 1.00

01:14:18.000 They're both great things. 0.98

01:14:19.000 But knowing what you are strikes me as a very important part of, again, another reason to study stand-up comedy is like you find out who you are.

01:14:26.000 Find out what your voice is.

01:14:28.000 What do you work on?

01:14:30.000 What's your thing?

01:14:31.000 If I try and be charming, it comes across as smarmy because I don't have that gear.

01:14:37.000 Yeah.

01:14:38.000 Interesting.

01:14:39.000 Yeah, it is interesting.

01:14:41.000 And I think there's also a real unfortunate aspect to stand-up comedy where people don't like when other people are doing well.

01:14:49.000 There's some people that don't like comics because they don't like other people doing well.

01:14:52.000 It's almost like they wish that they were the only one doing well.

01:14:55.000 There is that strange issue. 1.00

01:14:59.000 I mean, stupid. 1.00

01:15:00.000 Like, there's a little bit of that occasionally, but I mean, beyond a certain level. 1.00

01:15:07.000 Here's, look around.

01:15:09.000 If you're making a living as a stand-up comic, congratulations, you made it.

01:15:15.000 If you're not as rich and famous as you think you should be, well, you don't even know what game you're playing.

01:15:21.000 We're all in this.

01:15:22.000 We're all doing the same job.

01:15:24.000 It's all incredible.

01:15:26.000 The idea that we're literally living off our wits.

01:15:28.000 Yes.

01:15:29.000 And how few of us there are.

01:15:31.000 I mean, there's no one doing this.

01:15:33.000 That's why I think it's like virgin territory.

01:15:35.000 Imagine if there was like a hundred musicians that have released an album.

01:15:42.000 That's how many people with like a special that's gone global.

01:15:45.000 Yeah.

01:15:45.000 Maybe a hundred.

01:15:47.000 Yeah.

01:15:47.000 It might be more.

01:15:48.000 It might be 200. Right.

01:15:49.000 It's not many.

01:15:50.000 Not many.

01:15:51.000 You kind of get to be the first in.

01:15:53.000 This is the ground floor.

01:15:55.000 And that thing of...

01:15:56.000 And when you think about humanity...

01:15:59.000 I read this book recently, David Deutsch, The Beginning of Infinity, and it's like it blew my mind.

01:16:06.000 It was the idea that there's been 100 billion people so far, right?

01:16:12.000 And there's 9 billion people currently or close to, and there might be trillions in the future.

01:16:19.000 There might be because we found this meme that is the scientific method.

01:16:23.000 And maybe we could go interplanetary.

01:16:25.000 And maybe humanity could expand beyond this universe.

01:16:29.000 Maybe we could get somewhere.

01:16:31.000 Maybe physics delivers and we get to a new place.

01:16:35.000 And there could be generation upon generation upon generation.

01:16:38.000 Well, we're still at the ground level of this thing where people find a voice and find a perspective on things, and it's called stand-up comedy.

01:16:45.000 It's kind of an American medium, and it's new.

01:16:49.000 This is what it must have felt like in the jazz clubs in the 30s.

01:16:53.000 How exciting is this life?

01:16:55.000 And when someone says to me, oh, but that comedian, he's playing a bigger room than me, and he's sold out faster. 1.00

01:17:01.000 Oh, fuck off. 1.00

01:17:03.000 Yeah, fuck off. 1.00

01:17:04.000 You can fuck all the way off. 1.00

01:17:07.000 You get to do this. 1.00

01:17:09.000 Who gets to do this? 0.98

01:17:11.000 Yeah, it's so silly.

01:17:12.000 I mean, there's people listening to this podcast with real jobs who are working to live. 0.99

01:17:18.000 And God fucking bless them.

01:17:20.000 And I hope for them, all of them, no matter what age they are, that thing of like, they get to do something that fulfills them, that makes them truly happy. 0.97

01:17:29.000 And they get to, it's not even do something, to be.

01:17:33.000 It's to be, not to do.

01:17:35.000 You are a stand-up comic.

01:17:36.000 That's your job.

01:17:37.000 That's your role.

01:17:37.000 And you meet all these other incredible people along the road.

01:17:40.000 And they're so different.

01:17:42.000 And that thing that you're doing is a vehicle for developing your human potential.

01:17:46.000 As you get better at that thing and you understand what it takes, you can apply that to all aspects of your life.

01:17:52.000 Yeah.

01:17:52.000 I wrote like a self-help book based on stand-up comedy.

01:17:56.000 Really?

01:17:57.000 Yeah.

01:17:58.000 Well, they paid me to write an autobiography in basically in the lockdown in the UK. We had choices.

01:18:04.000 Our managers all called us and they said, look, you can start a podcast or you can write a book.

01:18:09.000 And I took the gentleman's option.

01:18:12.000 I wrote a book.

01:18:13.000 Good luck with this.

01:18:14.000 Let's see if it works out.

01:18:16.000 I wrote a book and I wrote like this before and laughter, I called it.

01:18:20.000 And it was like a self-help thing of going, well, what stand-ups taught me?

01:18:25.000 Because it did make me a better person.

01:18:27.000 If you think about what's the core skill, it's pattern recognition.

01:18:34.000 Well, that's strange.

01:18:35.000 I've noticed a pattern there.

01:18:36.000 Like, jokes are very simple patterns.

01:18:38.000 Like, the rule of three joke is the shortest pattern you could get.

01:18:42.000 And it's all pattern recognition, noticing difference.

01:18:45.000 And it rewards, what does it reward?

01:18:47.000 Or verbal dexterity.

01:18:49.000 I mean, we've both avoided any hard work in our lives through verbal dexterity.

01:18:53.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:18:53.000 Fucking terrific. 0.98

01:18:54.000 It's amazing. 0.99

01:18:55.000 Long may it last.

01:18:56.000 I've never done a day's work.

01:18:58.000 I've done a lot of day's work, which is one of the things that makes me appreciate it.

01:19:02.000 Yeah.

01:19:02.000 It's interesting, that thing.

01:19:03.000 I worked until I was maybe 25, advertising and marketing or whatever.

01:19:09.000 And I do still think that's a very valuable thing.

01:19:13.000 It is, because it makes you realize what you don't want to do.

01:19:16.000 Yeah.

01:19:16.000 I did a lot of construction jobs when I was a kid, and that...

01:19:21.000 We'll wake you up to what real hard work is.

01:19:24.000 You know, I spent an entire summer building a ramp, a wheelchair ramp at the Knights of Columbus Hall.

01:19:29.000 So the entire summer I carried cement bags and pressure treated lumber.

01:19:35.000 And it was in the hot sun in the summer.

01:19:37.000 And I would get out of there and I'd go to the gym at night and I was exhausted.

01:19:41.000 I couldn't train.

01:19:42.000 I was so tired.

01:19:45.000 You'd go to the gym at night after carrying cement bags all day?

01:19:48.000 Yeah, I had to.

01:19:49.000 I was competing still, so I was still fighting.

01:19:53.000 That feels like a training sequence from Rocky III. Is that the one with the Russian? 0.98

01:19:59.000 He's training in high tech.

01:20:00.000 You've gone back to logs.

01:20:02.000 Cement.

01:20:03.000 It wasn't making me stronger.

01:20:04.000 It was making my resolve to not work stronger.

01:20:07.000 It was making me realize, there's got to be a better way to make money.

01:20:10.000 I can't do this.

01:20:11.000 Because this was physically exhausting and boring.

01:20:15.000 It wasn't something I enjoyed doing.

01:20:17.000 It was boring. 0.99

01:20:18.000 It sucked. 0.97

01:20:18.000 You were in the sun all day. 0.97

01:20:20.000 And also, I was not good at recognizing that you had to stay hydrated and take vitamins and take care of your body.

01:20:27.000 I was just like eating Subway sandwiches and drinking Coca-Cola.

01:20:29.000 Yeah, but that's what your 20s is for.

01:20:31.000 Sure, yeah.

01:20:32.000 No one seems to know that early on.

01:20:34.000 No one seems to grasp it.

01:20:35.000 And it doesn't matter how much you tell young people, like, yeah, I'll be fine.

01:20:38.000 Yeah, you have to learn.

01:20:40.000 But those hard jobs made me realize, like, this could be your life if you don't take a chance, if you don't really go for it.

01:20:48.000 But it's that thing if you go...

01:20:49.000 Someone told me this thing recently about the difference between ambition and entitlement.

01:20:55.000 And it's, okay, so it's where you are now and where you want to be.

01:21:00.000 And if you want to do something about it and you're going to do something about it, that's ambition.

01:21:04.000 And if you think someone else should, that's entitlement.

01:21:07.000 And giving people agency, high agency people, giving them like the power to do that is what the whole school system should be set up to do.

01:21:17.000 Yeah, and teaching people the difference between those things and that you are not doing enough.

01:21:23.000 You may think that you're doing enough and that you should be receiving more, but you get what you deserve for the most part.

01:21:29.000 Well, I mean, that's very Biblical.

01:21:32.000 It's very Cain and Abel.

01:21:33.000 It's the idea of, you know, Cain's sacrifice wasn't enough.

01:21:37.000 And then he's bitter and resentful of that.

01:21:40.000 And that resentment thing is like, there's a great line on resentment.

01:21:43.000 Like, if you think, you know, that guy jealous of another comedian doing better, cry me a river.

01:21:48.000 But that thing of, like, resentment is, you think someone else has ruined your life.

01:21:52.000 And you're right.

01:21:53.000 Someone has.

01:21:54.000 And it's you.

01:21:55.000 Yeah.

01:21:56.000 It's that quote, all criticism is a tragic result of unmet needs.

01:22:02.000 Hang on.

01:22:03.000 Yeah.

01:22:03.000 Give me a second with that.

01:22:04.000 Yeah.

01:22:04.000 It's more complicated than that.

01:22:06.000 The actual quote is longer.

01:22:07.000 Cool.

01:22:08.000 That's fantastic.

01:22:09.000 But it's perfect.

01:22:10.000 That snippet of it is absolutely perfect because that's what a lot of – the reason why most people criticize is because they feel like someone has something they don't deserve.

01:22:20.000 Obviously, there's criticism for people that are doing something terrible or doing something badly or just ruining something.

01:22:26.000 Well, I had this theory about envy and jealousy.

01:22:29.000 And I don't mind which word you use for which.

01:22:32.000 But for me, I would say envy is very good, jealousy is very bad.

01:22:37.000 So envy tells you what you want.

01:22:40.000 It's fuel.

01:22:41.000 What's the most fundamental question in life?

01:22:43.000 It's what do you want.

01:22:44.000 Right.

01:22:45.000 Because no wind is favorable if you don't know what direction you're going in.

01:22:49.000 Yes.

01:22:49.000 So envy, sometimes you see someone on stage and you go, I want that.

01:22:53.000 I want to be the guy on stage.

01:22:55.000 Yes.

01:22:55.000 Great.

01:22:56.000 Okay, so now we know what we want.

01:22:58.000 We're going to move towards that.

01:22:59.000 And who knows how, but we're going to try.

01:23:01.000 Yes.

01:23:01.000 Okay.

01:23:02.000 Jealousy is when you don't want someone else to have what they've got.

01:23:05.000 Right.

01:23:06.000 That's not anything.

01:23:08.000 What you recognize is bad feeling.

01:23:10.000 And the bad feeling is the jealousy.

01:23:12.000 The bad feeling is you wish you had what that person has.

01:23:15.000 So instead of looking at the reality of your existence and your life and whether or not you deserve it or whether or not you put the work in or whether or not you've achieved a level of proficiency that would allow you to get that...

01:23:26.000 You just want it and they have it and you're mad at them because they make you feel bad. 0.98

01:23:33.000 It's like dumb guys that wind up hating women because they keep getting rejected. 0.99

01:23:37.000 So they associate women with negative feelings and bad feelings because these women reject them. 1.00

01:23:43.000 So they decide they hate women. 1.00

01:23:44.000 Rather than just becoming someone that someone would want to be attracted to.

01:23:49.000 Someone who was worth being around.

01:23:51.000 Someone who would want to have a relationship with.

01:23:53.000 Yes, I mean, kind and caring.

01:23:55.000 Yeah.

01:23:55.000 It's a weird thing.

01:23:56.000 Women are looking for kind and caring men, and men are looking for people with big tits. 1.00

01:24:02.000 But that's because all women are kind and caring, or the vast majority of women are kind and caring. 0.99

01:24:07.000 Much more than men, yeah.

01:24:08.000 So we don't need to have that as our primary.

01:24:11.000 Okay, let's look for that.

01:24:12.000 People talk about toxic masculinity, but it's an easy fix, isn't it?

01:24:15.000 Be a mensch, be a gentleman. 0.71

01:24:17.000 Yes.

01:24:18.000 Done.

01:24:18.000 You'll do very well.

01:24:20.000 And then there's also this thing where you can kind of bypass that if you're extraordinarily successful.

01:24:26.000 Like if you're a billionaire, you know, people will just seek you out.

01:24:30.000 And they'll even accept a certain amount of personality flaws and physical flaws because you just have this extraordinary wealth.

01:24:38.000 You know, so there's people that just go in that direction.

01:24:40.000 They just try to achieve this like undeniable material success.

01:24:46.000 Yeah, I don't know where that goes.

01:24:47.000 I mean, billionaires do seem to be giving away their money.

01:24:52.000 Left and right.

01:24:53.000 The number one reason why women get rich is divorce. 1.00

01:24:56.000 But actively, you know, the altruistic thing of like they're giving away their money, they're trying to do something.

01:25:02.000 Oh, I see.

01:25:02.000 But the idea they're giving away their money and you go, well, that's interesting.

01:25:07.000 Like, what matters?

01:25:10.000 Because money is a magic lamp, right?

01:25:14.000 It was the quote.

01:25:16.000 But you have to know what to wish for.

01:25:18.000 For me, wishing wells work.

01:25:20.000 But wishing wells work before you think they work.

01:25:23.000 You throw the coin in and you make a wish.

01:25:27.000 And that's what...

01:25:28.000 Deciding what to wish for is how they work.

01:25:31.000 Knowing what you want in life strikes me...

01:25:34.000 That's what we were talking about earlier.

01:25:36.000 That first adventure in life.

01:25:37.000 Finding out what you want.

01:25:38.000 Who you want to be.

01:25:39.000 And you're kind of...

01:25:41.000 It's hard.

01:25:42.000 It's the hero's journey for everyone.

01:25:44.000 Mm-hmm.

01:25:45.000 Yeah, and that's a real tragedy when people don't find the thing, and some people never find a thing that they want.

01:25:51.000 Listen, there's different lives that you can lead.

01:25:56.000 I mean, for me, I had kids pretty late in life, but I do feel like it makes every other status game look petty.

01:26:05.000 Yes.

01:26:05.000 It's suddenly you go, ah, I thought I had skin in the game.

01:26:11.000 I thought, risking everything, leaving my job to become a stand-up comedian.

01:26:15.000 Right.

01:26:16.000 I didn't have any skin in the game.

01:26:17.000 It was only me.

01:26:17.000 Right.

01:26:18.000 And now I've got my girl, I've got my kids.

01:26:19.000 I go, oh, now things could go south.

01:26:23.000 Now I've got stuff that's...

01:26:24.000 Right.

01:26:25.000 You know, so I thought I'd kind of gamed the system, but actually I was playing a very low-stakes game. 0.98

01:26:32.000 And so that thing of going, listen, if you're working in a job you hate, but you're feeding your family, fucking fair play to you. 0.98

01:26:39.000 Yes. 0.98

01:26:40.000 You're doing great.

01:26:41.000 Yes, you're definitely, you're succeeding.

01:26:44.000 Yeah.

01:26:45.000 But, you know, if you want a dream, if you have a thing that you're striving for, and you don't chase it, that's a terrible way to live your life, to wake up one day and realize that you didn't go for it.

01:26:57.000 You didn't take the chances.

01:26:59.000 You didn't follow this thing that has been always in the back of your mind, just talking to you.

01:27:04.000 Yeah.

01:27:05.000 I made like a list years ago of people that made it late in life.

01:27:12.000 Like Morgan Freeman and Samuel L. Jackson didn't have their leading roles until they were in their 40s.

01:27:19.000 It's a good list.

01:27:20.000 It's a good list.

01:27:21.000 I put it in the book and I found it quite calming for going.

01:27:25.000 It's not a race.

01:27:26.000 Most comics don't do their best work until they're in their 50s.

01:27:31.000 It's not kind of a young man's game.

01:27:33.000 I find that very comforting.

01:27:35.000 It's like most of my favorite, most of the stuff that I... It's not just stuff you watch, stuff you re-watch.

01:27:41.000 That's great.

01:27:41.000 That's a great bit.

01:27:43.000 If everything goes well, your perspective will be enhanced with every day you're on this planet and every life experience that you have and that you learn from.

01:27:52.000 That will enhance your ability as an artist to express yourself.

01:27:56.000 You'll know more.

01:27:57.000 You'll understand more.

01:27:58.000 You'll understand yourself more.

01:27:59.000 You'll understand how other people see you.

01:28:01.000 You'll understand how to get these ideas into people's heads better.

01:28:04.000 It's interesting that thing of light going, another reason to teach stand-up, the idea of knowing how you're perceived in the world is such an underrated skill.

01:28:12.000 Very.

01:28:13.000 Because knowing how you change the atmosphere when you walk in a room, it's often the way with like, I don't know if you've ever noticed this, like very, very beautiful people, like super symmetrical, beautiful people tend to speak very slowly.

01:28:29.000 Hmm.

01:28:31.000 Never been interrupted.

01:28:32.000 Hmm.

01:28:33.000 No one's ever interrupted the...

01:28:35.000 Right.

01:28:36.000 You're a what?

01:28:37.000 You're a...

01:28:37.000 Mm-hmm.

01:28:38.000 You're a, you know, agent provocateur model.

01:28:42.000 What?

01:28:42.000 Right.

01:28:43.000 What?

01:28:44.000 Yeah.

01:28:45.000 Hanging on every word.

01:28:46.000 I speak very quickly because this.

01:28:48.000 But, you know, you've got that thing of like, you don't quite know.

01:28:53.000 I'm sure Marilyn Monroe just thought that's how people, when you walk in a room, everyone turns around and looks.

01:28:59.000 Yeah.

01:29:00.000 That's how rooms work.

01:29:01.000 Isn't that what it was?

01:29:02.000 Because she never gets to experience the world through someone else's eyes.

01:29:06.000 Isn't that Socrates' quote?

01:29:07.000 Was it Socrates that said, beauty is a short-lived tyranny?

01:29:10.000 Oh, that's good.

01:29:12.000 Yeah, that's a good one.

01:29:13.000 That's good, yeah.

01:29:15.000 You dominate with symmetry, you know, and you don't really have to be that interesting if you're gorgeous.

01:29:21.000 But listen, people that are gorgeous and listening, lean into it.

01:29:25.000 You might as well use what you've got while you've got it.

01:29:28.000 Oh, yeah.

01:29:29.000 But then you've got to invest in the other things.

01:29:32.000 If you're smart, you'd invest in all those other things, too.

01:29:34.000 Well, isn't it interesting how we think people that are born beautiful are lucky.

01:29:39.000 She's just lucky.

01:29:40.000 It's easy for her or him.

01:29:41.000 It's easy because they were born beautiful.

01:29:43.000 We never say that about smart people.

01:29:45.000 We never think, oh, it's easy for Joe Rogan.

01:29:47.000 He was born really smart and inquisitive.

01:29:49.000 Yeah.

01:29:50.000 It's easy for him to write comedy because he's got that noggin on him.

01:29:53.000 So it's easy.

01:29:55.000 No one ever thinks that.

01:29:56.000 People go, well, no, he did the work.

01:29:58.000 And that's the great illusion of our culture.

01:30:00.000 There's two great lies.

01:30:02.000 One is talent and one is hard work.

01:30:04.000 And they're both lies and we know they're lies.

01:30:07.000 I'll tell you who Michael Jordan is without hard work.

01:30:11.000 Yeah.

01:30:12.000 No one.

01:30:13.000 No one, yeah.

01:30:13.000 I mean, he had all the talent in the world, physical prowess, and obviously not everyone can do that.

01:30:19.000 So it's a mix of the two.

01:30:20.000 It's always going to be that.

01:30:21.000 I talk about it as edge.

01:30:23.000 What's your edge in life?

01:30:25.000 What could you do?

01:30:28.000 Better than anything else.

01:30:29.000 You have to do it the best in the world, but what's your thing that you bring to the party?

01:30:33.000 What's the thing that you...

01:30:34.000 Here's a great question.

01:30:35.000 What do you find easy that other people find hard?

01:30:38.000 It's interesting you talked about being shy when you were 16. Yeah.

01:30:41.000 And yet you've lent into it to a degree where your whole life is putting people at ease and welcoming them and talking to them.

01:30:51.000 Yeah.

01:30:51.000 And you were nervous talking to a bank teller.

01:30:54.000 I was entirely dyslexic as a kid.

01:30:56.000 I couldn't read until I was about sort of 11. And I spend my life now reading autocue.

01:31:01.000 I was so terrified of reading out loud in class.

01:31:04.000 How did you fix dyslexia?

01:31:04.000 How does dyslexia manifest itself?

01:31:07.000 I don't think it's a real thing.

01:31:08.000 Really?

01:31:09.000 Well, because you can't take a blood test for it.

01:31:11.000 So it's a way of thinking.

01:31:13.000 So what did you see when you said you couldn't read until you were 11?

01:31:16.000 What did you see?

01:31:17.000 When I write, so people, I think when you write, when most people write, they sort of just write the word.

01:31:24.000 I need to think of every letter in the word as I write.

01:31:27.000 And so as I read, I read individual words.

01:31:30.000 So I'm quite, like I read, I read pretty slowly even now, like compared to, I I don't know what my reading age is, but it's definitely not commensurate with where I should be.

01:31:41.000 But I managed to kind of game the system.

01:31:43.000 You find your way around it.

01:31:44.000 Did you take lessons?

01:31:46.000 No.

01:31:47.000 No, no.

01:31:47.000 I mean, I got into Cambridge.

01:31:49.000 I did very well academically.

01:31:51.000 Right, but how did you overcome?

01:31:53.000 You just basically, I sort of, I figured out early on that pattern recognition thing of going, okay, I need to get A's in my A-levels, like whatever you call the end of school.

01:32:03.000 I need to graduate with a whatever.

01:32:06.000 I need to do very well.

01:32:08.000 So I found the brightest guy in the school and I said, can I read your essays?

01:32:13.000 He said, yeah.

01:32:13.000 I read what he'd done and I didn't copy the essay, but I copied the structure.

01:32:18.000 And so I kind of learned to go, okay, well, in academia, what do you need to do to kind of game the system?

01:32:25.000 And how can I get around it?

01:32:27.000 And it's just that thing you go, well, that's – you have to – I think there's a fair bit of acceptance in it.

01:32:31.000 You have to go, well, my mind works a bit differently to other people's.

01:32:35.000 I'm not as gifted in that, so it's going to take me longer to read something.

01:32:39.000 What do they say – when they say, what is dyslexia, like technically?

01:32:43.000 Like when they give you a definition of it, like what's the root cause?

01:32:47.000 Like, Google dyslexia.

01:32:49.000 I'm looking all over.

01:32:50.000 I would Google it, but I wouldn't be able to spell it.

01:32:52.000 I often get a thing like, with spellcheck on my computer, it would just go, huh?

01:32:58.000 Right, what are you trying to say?

01:32:59.000 I don't even know what you're shooting for there.

01:33:01.000 Give me a clue.

01:33:02.000 Put it in a sentence.

01:33:03.000 Isn't that a beautiful thing, though, that you do get that little red squiggly line under your words?

01:33:08.000 Like, oh, thank goodness.

01:33:09.000 I say I wrote a book.

01:33:10.000 I co-wrote a book.

01:33:11.000 Yeah.

01:33:11.000 With spellcheck.

01:33:12.000 Yeah.

01:33:13.000 Yeah.

01:33:14.000 Without spellcheck, it's not anything.

01:33:15.000 What the hell is this?

01:33:17.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:33:18.000 It is oftentimes when I'm typing a text.

01:33:21.000 Learning disability, yeah.

01:33:22.000 I was in special ed all the way through primary school.

01:33:26.000 It happens because of disruptions in how your brain processes writing so you can understand it.

01:33:30.000 Most people learn they have dyslexia during childhood, and it's typically a lifelong issue.

01:33:35.000 This form of dyslexia is also known as developmental dyslexia.

01:33:40.000 Dyslexia falls under the umbrella of specific learning disorder.

01:33:43.000 This disorder has three main subtypes.

01:33:45.000 Reading, dyslexia, writing, dysgraphia, and math, dyscalculia.

01:33:51.000 Yeah.

01:33:51.000 So, I mean, I think it's one of those things where I don't think that's helpful.

01:33:55.000 For me, I don't think it's helpful.

01:33:56.000 I don't think the label ever helped me.

01:33:58.000 I remember getting, like, properly diagnosed at university just so I could get a free laptop.

01:34:04.000 And they would give you an extra half an hour in the exam.

01:34:07.000 Oh.

01:34:08.000 But my written word, I'm not great at cursive.

01:34:13.000 So it's interesting.

01:34:14.000 The slowdown processing can affect everything that follows.

01:34:17.000 That includes slowed reading because you have trouble processing and understanding words, difficulties with writing and spelling, problems with how you store words and their meanings in your memory, trouble forming sentences to communicate more complex ideas.

01:34:28.000 Dyslexia is uncommon overall but widespread enough to be well known.

01:34:32.000 7% of the population worldwide.

01:34:34.000 I'd say that's pretty widespread.

01:34:36.000 Yeah, it's pretty widespread.

01:34:37.000 Yeah.

01:34:38.000 It may affect up to 20% of the people worldwide.

01:34:40.000 Yeah.

01:34:41.000 Wow.

01:34:41.000 What causes it?

01:34:42.000 Okay, what's the symptoms?

01:34:43.000 Hang on, what have we got?

01:34:44.000 Genetics.

01:34:45.000 Highly genetic and runs in families.

01:34:47.000 It's all genetic, isn't it?

01:34:48.000 That's a good point.

01:34:50.000 I wonder what it is about genetics that would cause it.

01:34:54.000 A child with one parent with dyslexia has a 30% to 50% chance of inheriting it.

01:34:59.000 Well, I wonder what the...

01:35:02.000 What the advantage was.

01:35:04.000 There's always a Darwinian advantage somewhere.

01:35:06.000 Well, it says if you are dyslexia, if you have dyslexia rather, you're neurodivergent.

01:35:11.000 It means your brain formed or works differently than expected.

01:35:14.000 Research shows that people with dyslexia have differences in brain structure, function and chemistry.

01:35:21.000 So a bunch of things can happen.

01:35:23.000 Infections, toxic exposures, and other events can disrupt fetal development and increase the odds of later development of dyslexia.

01:35:31.000 Oh, we did fine.

01:35:32.000 Here's my thing.

01:35:33.000 I don't think it's helpful to have...

01:35:35.000 I mean, I went to, you know, arguably the best university in the UK. I guess Oxford would have issues with that, but I think Cambridge was great, and did very well academically.

01:35:43.000 And it was hard.

01:35:45.000 Maybe it was harder for me to do than it was for my friends that were just naturally gifted academically.

01:35:52.000 But I really wanted that thing.

01:35:54.000 And what was the driver to get that thing?

01:35:57.000 Well, the driver was the humiliation of being in the special ed class and not being able to read out in class.

01:36:04.000 I remember my friend telling me the stories of what was happening in Lord of the Rings.

01:36:09.000 Because I couldn't read it.

01:36:12.000 So I was going, what happens?

01:36:13.000 And being really excited by that.

01:36:15.000 So that thing of like that poor kid going, feeling less than, going, well, I need to get this academic achievement to do something.

01:36:22.000 So you were going up to the bank teller shyly at 16. The gift that shy kid gave you Was the drive for this.

01:36:31.000 So it's all gratitude.

01:36:33.000 It's all like, well, great.

01:36:34.000 What are you motivated by?

01:36:36.000 Not everyone's motivated towards something.

01:36:39.000 Sometimes it's just away from something.

01:36:41.000 So if you grew up and you weren't wealthy as a kid, I mean, it was great for us because it was pre-internet.

01:36:47.000 So I grew up in Slough and we didn't, you know, have many foreign holidays.

01:36:51.000 Fine.

01:36:52.000 Didn't matter.

01:36:53.000 My mother was fantastic and it was a great childhood.

01:36:56.000 And I didn't have to look at everyone else's childhood on my phone.

01:37:00.000 I didn't have to look at what everyone else had.

01:37:02.000 I just knew the people around me and we were all kind of in the same boat.

01:37:05.000 It was lovely.

01:37:07.000 I kind of think that comparison is the thief of joy.

01:37:11.000 It's just so true.

01:37:12.000 Another great quote.

01:37:13.000 That's amazing.

01:37:14.000 Yeah.

01:37:14.000 Yeah, it really is.

01:37:16.000 And, you know, you can, instead of having that experience, you can compare and be inspired.

01:37:24.000 And that's just a switch that you have to make in your mind, and that's the difference between being jealous and envious, right?

01:37:31.000 If you're envious, you can use that as fuel.

01:37:33.000 This is disposition is more important than position.

01:37:35.000 If you keep going back to kind of gratitude, like, okay, we're fine, you can kind of do anything.

01:37:41.000 Yes.

01:37:42.000 You know, because it's quite empowering as well, that thing of, like, it's just a happy mood to be in.

01:37:47.000 Yeah.

01:37:48.000 Yeah, you can choose to interface with life in a more positive way.

01:37:52.000 And, you know, sometimes people need things that happen to them, near-death experiences, tragedies, psychedelics, something that, like, snaps you out of this state that you're in, this groove that's been deeply cut into your consciousness and the way you approach life.

01:38:09.000 You need something different that sort of allows you to see, like, okay, I can look at things differently and that would be a better thing for me.

01:38:18.000 That would help me achieve what I'm trying to achieve in life.

01:38:20.000 And then as you do do that and apply it and you see the results that are positive, Then you gain momentum in this very good direction.

01:38:28.000 I mean, for me, I think grief is a huge driver.

01:38:31.000 You know that great, there's lots of great quotes, it's always the same with me, but that thing of every man has two lives, and the second begins when he realizes he only has one.

01:38:45.000 Yes.

01:38:46.000 That for me, I remember hearing that and going, oh yeah, oh yeah, this is it.

01:38:51.000 There's no rehearsal.

01:38:53.000 So I think that thing of when you're a kid, you're kind of living Sort of for someone else.

01:38:58.000 You're sort of trying to impress your parents or someone at school or there's that kind of weird memetic desire for I want what they've got.

01:39:06.000 You know, they've got those trainers so I want those training shoes.

01:39:09.000 You know, they've got that car, I want that car.

01:39:12.000 You're in competition with the world to kind of keeping up with people.

01:39:16.000 Yeah.

01:39:17.000 And then there's people that tell you the direction you are supposed to go in, and they're angry at you if you don't follow it.

01:39:23.000 If you have, like, very controlling parents, that can be a real issue.

01:39:28.000 You have to figure out a way to snap out of that.

01:39:32.000 It's very hard though, isn't it?

01:39:34.000 Because different people, like childhoods, this is a real tough love thing.

01:39:38.000 This isn't popular, but there has to be a statute of limitations on childhood trauma.

01:39:44.000 Because for an 18-year-old to tell me, I'm not doing so great because my mum's a narcissist...

01:39:49.000 Right.

01:39:50.000 Yeah.

01:39:51.000 Man, that must have been really tough.

01:39:53.000 If a 40-year-old tells me that, though...

01:39:55.000 Right.

01:39:56.000 Time to get over it.

01:39:57.000 Mate.

01:39:57.000 Yeah.

01:39:57.000 But at what stage do we...

01:39:59.000 Is there, like, should there be a ceremony at 25 where we go, okay, everyone, that's all done.

01:40:06.000 It's your responsibility now.

01:40:07.000 Well, that's a good point, what you just said, because that's, I think, one of the things that we're missing that has always existed in cultures is the rites of passage.

01:40:15.000 Some sort of a ceremony that allows you to recognize that you are now held to a higher standard.

01:40:20.000 You are in a new stage of existence and that this stage requires you to now you are a man or now you are a woman.

01:40:27.000 And now you have to take agency over your own life and you have to take responsibility for your decisions.

01:40:33.000 And you have to think of yourself as an adult now. 0.97

01:40:36.000 And, you know, there's people that are 35 years old who are still living with their parents and they're still fucking off and never really matured and became a man. 0.98

01:40:44.000 They got stuck in this... 0.97

01:40:47.000 And listen, it's all very well for us.

01:40:49.000 You know...

01:40:51.000 Sure.

01:41:10.000 Yeah, you can get out there.

01:41:11.000 Get out there.

01:41:12.000 If you're a 40-year-old single man and you're a good guy, there's a woman going, ah, where is he?

01:41:19.000 Yeah, you can still make it.

01:41:21.000 But that's the thing too, right?

01:41:22.000 Of course you can.

01:41:23.000 It's hard though because you're in that groove and you're coming from behind.

01:41:27.000 And you might feel like, well, I'm coming from behind.

01:41:29.000 But who cares?

01:41:30.000 It's just hard to internalize that, right, for a lot of people.

01:41:35.000 And there's books on that.

01:41:37.000 There's books that you can learn a better way to think and a better way to approach things.

01:41:42.000 I mean, there's a lot of inspirational books that are nonsense.

01:41:46.000 There's a lot of people that write books about going for it and chasing your dreams.

01:41:49.000 But addressing the root cause of each individual psychological roadblock that you have in your mind, you can learn from those.

01:41:59.000 I found CBT very...

01:42:01.000 Interesting.

01:42:01.000 What is that?

01:42:02.000 Cognitive behavioral therapy.

01:42:04.000 Oh, okay.

01:42:04.000 So they have these kind of list of, we could pull it up, just the list of thought patterns is brilliant for like, just look at you, you think actually the problems in the world today could be solved with a good session of this.

01:42:18.000 It's like, just like things like magical thinking.

01:42:21.000 Some people just do magical thinking or they, you know, it's kind of, they just put up their own, well, if I do this, then that.

01:42:28.000 Mm-hmm.

01:42:29.000 Kind of weird cycles of thought.

01:42:31.000 And just being aware of it seems to change it.

01:42:34.000 Mm.

01:42:35.000 Have you got the list of them?

01:42:37.000 I don't know if there's a specific list I'm looking for.

01:42:40.000 Yeah, CBT kind of thought patterns.

01:42:42.000 When did you get involved in that?

01:42:44.000 Mm.

01:42:46.000 Well, here's a weird thing.

01:42:47.000 I got into kind of West, I suppose, West Coast kind of human development, human potential movement through shale oil.

01:42:57.000 So I was working for a big oil company and there was a training budget.

01:43:01.000 Now, I wasn't on the oil rigs.

01:43:03.000 This will shock you.

01:43:04.000 But I was in the office.

01:43:05.000 I know I seem like a real alpha dude, but I was in the office pushing paper, talking about marketing and adverts.

01:43:11.000 And so they had a training budget for everyone.

01:43:13.000 So we used our training budget to go and do, like, courses.

01:43:16.000 So we did a lot of neuro-linguistic programming, and we did a lot of kind of CBT-type stuff, you know, talking to people.

01:43:22.000 And it was all about kind of, you know, what are you going to do career-wise and what's happening within the corporate structure.

01:43:27.000 But for me, it was like...

01:43:29.000 I found it such a pleasing.

01:43:30.000 I kind of lost my faith in my mid-twenties, or maybe very slightly earlier.

01:43:35.000 And then it was like this sort of replaced that in terms of like, it's a way of seeing the world.

01:43:41.000 So the central, I mean, NLP's got its critics, but the idea of going, the map is not the territory.

01:43:47.000 How you see the world isn't how the world is.

01:43:49.000 It's just how you're seeing it.

01:43:51.000 And you could see it differently.

01:43:53.000 You could change the world or you could change your perspective on the world.

01:43:57.000 And it strikes me, one of those is a lot easier.

01:43:59.000 It's not easy, but it's a lot easier than the other one.

01:44:01.000 Yeah, a lot easier.

01:44:02.000 And it was very freeing.

01:44:05.000 Okay, what's this?

01:44:06.000 All or nothing thinking?

01:44:07.000 Catastrophic thinking?

01:44:09.000 Overgeneralizing?

01:44:09.000 Yeah, these are all great.

01:44:12.000 Most people...

01:44:12.000 Go to the top of that?

01:44:13.000 What's the top one?

01:44:14.000 Jamie, scroll down.

01:44:15.000 So all or nothing thinking.

01:44:17.000 Thinking in extremes, for example, something's either 100% good or 100% bad.

01:44:20.000 Okay, so the boyfriend doesn't call you back.

01:44:23.000 Oh, he hates me.

01:44:24.000 He hates me then.

01:44:25.000 Okay, it's over.

01:44:27.000 Catastrophizing follows that.

01:44:28.000 Jumping to the worst possible conclusion.

01:44:30.000 Yeah.

01:44:31.000 So, I mean, you know, stand-up comics that we know It's the all or nothing thinking.

01:44:37.000 My career's in the toilet.

01:44:39.000 I'm useless when you've had a bad show.

01:44:41.000 Seeing a pattern based on a single event, overgeneralizing, mental filter, only paying attention to certain types of evidence.

01:44:49.000 That doesn't count.

01:44:50.000 Yes.

01:44:51.000 In quotes.

01:44:52.000 Well, it's an interesting thing that of like when you think politically, if you're having a political conversation with anyone, I always like try and ask...

01:45:00.000 What would you need to see to change your mind?

01:45:02.000 And if they don't have an answer, if it's a matter of principle, it means they're not willing to listen to reason.

01:45:07.000 Right.

01:45:07.000 They're ideologically balanced.

01:45:09.000 Yeah.

01:45:09.000 I mean, I must say, the thing about your show, like coming on here or whatever, I've seen your show a lot.

01:45:14.000 And the openness is fantastic.

01:45:17.000 The openness to...

01:45:18.000 Okay.

01:45:19.000 What do you got?

01:45:20.000 Tell me.

01:45:21.000 It's like, it's such an unusual thing, because most of what we have in our society, everything seems very, looking at America as a visitor here, thanks for having me, it feels like there's a cold civil war.

01:45:35.000 There is.

01:45:36.000 Where people are on this side and this side.

01:45:37.000 And I could ask you your opinion on any one of five issues.

01:45:41.000 And I could tell you what you think about everything else.

01:45:44.000 And that's a bit depressing.

01:45:45.000 I want to be surprised.

01:45:46.000 Like individuals, I want them...

01:45:48.000 It's almost like kind of joining a political party, it strikes me, is a little bit ordering from the set menu at the Chinese restaurant.

01:45:55.000 If you've never had Chinese food before, okay, I'll go with that. 0.67

01:45:59.000 The set menu, you tell me.

01:46:01.000 But like following a political party, you agree with them...

01:46:04.000 About everything.

01:46:05.000 Right.

01:46:06.000 That seems far-fetched.

01:46:07.000 I don't agree with anyone about everything.

01:46:09.000 Right.

01:46:10.000 Yeah.

01:46:11.000 It would seem crazy.

01:46:13.000 I've learned how to do that, though.

01:46:15.000 I was most certainly in that camp at one point in my life.

01:46:18.000 And then doing this podcast and having this incredible opportunity to talk to so many different people that are brilliant and so many different people that have completely different perspectives and my genuine curiosity as to why they think the way they think and learning how to not judge them because the way they think is different than mine,

01:46:39.000 than my thoughts, but instead to try To try to put myself in their mind and try to see from their perspective and also give them the most charitable take on them that I can.

01:46:57.000 It's the other question.

01:46:59.000 Before you get into any kind of political debate with anyone, first question, do you believe people can change?

01:47:05.000 And if someone goes, no, they are what they are, Why are we even talking?

01:47:10.000 Forget that. 0.91

01:47:12.000 That's such a silly perspective that so many people share. 0.54

01:47:15.000 But it's that thing of like going, if you have the same political views that you had when you were 21 and you're now 45, you haven't been thinking much. 0.85

01:47:25.000 You've just been rearranging your prejudices.

01:47:28.000 That's not thinking.

01:47:30.000 Yeah, you're biased.

01:47:31.000 Like, what was the last thing you changed your mind about is such an interesting question.

01:47:35.000 Yeah.

01:47:35.000 What was the last thing, like, big thing that you went, I used to think that, and now I think this.

01:47:41.000 And it's a really interesting question.

01:47:44.000 What would yours be?

01:47:45.000 What was the last thing that you...

01:47:46.000 The medical establishment.

01:47:47.000 I used to think that medicine was there purely to heal people and make people better, and that all the doctors were on board with that.

01:47:56.000 And what do you think now?

01:47:57.000 No, I think they're captured by an enormous industry and that this enormous industry first of all it starts with Dictating where funds go.

01:48:07.000 So there's one group that decides what studies are going to be run, what research is going to be funded.

01:48:14.000 And so all of those doctors that receive that funding have to step in line.

01:48:18.000 Then you have the enormous impact that we have in this country of pharmaceutical drugs are allowed to advertise on television.

01:48:24.000 We're one of two countries in the world.

01:48:26.000 You and New Zealand, right?

01:48:27.000 Yes, that's it.

01:48:27.000 Why isn't that just, I mean...

01:48:29.000 But New Zealand's far more restrictive than America. 0.98

01:48:31.000 America's insane.

01:48:32.000 But I mean, that thing of like, there's a lot of comedy routines have fallen out of that.

01:48:35.000 That's the good that's come of it.

01:48:36.000 Let's be grateful.

01:48:38.000 Hey, these sound effects sound worse than the thing.

01:48:40.000 But that idea of like, that's such an easy...

01:48:43.000 It's not.

01:48:44.000 It's because the entanglement is so deep.

01:48:46.000 You're not talking about the biggest industry in the world.

01:48:47.000 Yes.

01:48:48.000 It's bigger than anything else.

01:48:50.000 And then there's also, like we were talking about this oversimplification, they make a lot of amazing medications that have helped so many people, that have prolonged lives, saved lives, helped people.

01:49:01.000 I invest a lot of my money in a cancer company.

01:49:05.000 It's a great thing to do.

01:49:07.000 Because that thing of like going, well, whatever you give to charity in a year, whatever that sum is, you know, go with God, good luck.

01:49:13.000 But whatever you give to charity won't be as much as you invest.

01:49:17.000 For most people, right?

01:49:18.000 Unless you're incredibly altruistic.

01:49:20.000 Right.

01:49:20.000 So invest in something that's worth something.

01:49:23.000 Yes.

01:49:23.000 So that idea if you go, well, it's also the medical establishment, there's lots of problems, but when you're sick, who are you going to call?

01:49:30.000 Yeah.

01:49:31.000 It's your only option and it seems to be...

01:49:34.000 Yeah.

01:49:35.000 It's just disturbing to realize that they've been captured and that the media has been captured so hard.

01:49:42.000 And that was a real revelation that was very uncomfortable for me to accept.

01:49:49.000 And a lot of the information that I got from that was from doctors, from heterodox doctors, doctors that would explain to you what the problems with the system were and how they were discouraged and doctors that were fortunate enough to go independent.

01:50:02.000 Well, it's the interesting thing about your show.

01:50:04.000 Is the thing about the Overton window and how much you're willing to push.

01:50:09.000 Because when you said it's a lab leak, you were in trouble.

01:50:15.000 And then 18 months later, everyone goes, yeah, but it probably was a lab leak, though.

01:50:19.000 Yeah, but I wasn't saying it because I was guessing.

01:50:23.000 I was saying it because brilliant people were willing to stick their neck out who were actual experts in viruses.

01:50:30.000 And they had studied it and they understood it.

01:50:32.000 But in this forum, you said it and it moved the conversation forward.

01:50:36.000 You saying that moved the Overton window of like, actually, I think it might be okay to say that.

01:50:40.000 I think it might be okay to talk about that.

01:50:42.000 Like, it's that thing if you want to know where real power is in any community.

01:50:47.000 Who can't you criticize?

01:50:49.000 Yeah.

01:50:49.000 And that thing of like going, okay, well, that's interesting.

01:50:52.000 Sorry, we're not allowed to discuss this.

01:50:54.000 Right.

01:50:55.000 Sorry, that's not right.

01:50:59.000 I want to have a conversation about it.

01:51:01.000 And as a comic, isn't that the one thing that we always tune in on?

01:51:05.000 Like moths to a flame.

01:51:06.000 Exactly.

01:51:07.000 What are you saying?

01:51:07.000 I can't talk about that?

01:51:09.000 Why?

01:51:10.000 Well, what about this?

01:51:12.000 You're just a conspiracy theorist.

01:51:14.000 Well, doesn't comedy live between...

01:51:17.000 I think it kind of operates somewhere between public and private discourse.

01:51:22.000 So when you watch the news, no one talks like that.

01:51:26.000 And they don't even think that.

01:51:29.000 And then a private conversation in a bar, in a car, in bed, talking about stuff.

01:51:35.000 You can question things.

01:51:37.000 And it feels like comedy is in a public sphere where you can have those conversations.

01:51:42.000 And you can push things.

01:51:44.000 And it's like, why are people drawn to comedy?

01:51:47.000 Why is there so many comics coming up?

01:51:48.000 Why are people so interested in going out and seeing shows?

01:51:51.000 This is what's going on.

01:51:53.000 I mean, I think that thing of...

01:51:55.000 I agree with what you're saying about...

01:51:59.000 Captured seems like it's very strong language, but you go and there's so many incredible doctors out there and nurses out there and physios and the medical profession and researchers.

01:52:12.000 There's so much incredible work going on.

01:52:15.000 And I don't know.

01:52:16.000 I mean, if Peter Attia and David Sinclair, if you believe, maybe we'll all live to be 120, 130. They're finding these things.

01:52:23.000 The research is metformin and ripamycin and all this kind of incredible stuff.

01:52:28.000 It's exciting.

01:52:30.000 It's great, but also there's something else going on as well.

01:52:37.000 I've got a very positive disposition.

01:52:40.000 I try and see the good.

01:52:41.000 Oh, I do too.

01:52:42.000 I think generally people overall are good.

01:52:46.000 The problem with being captured is when your livelihood depends upon you towing the line and then everyone does it.

01:52:54.000 That gets really scary for the general population that's ignorant to what's really going on.

01:52:58.000 Yeah.

01:52:58.000 Especially when it deals with something like them prescribing pharmaceutical drugs.

01:53:03.000 I mean, the opioid crisis in America is the greatest example of that.

01:53:07.000 I can't see an argument for...

01:53:11.000 I mean, it's incredible.

01:53:13.000 Because it didn't happen anywhere else.

01:53:16.000 Right.

01:53:16.000 It's not like you can go, well, look at the UK and Germany and France and South Africa and Australia.

01:53:22.000 Look at all these other places.

01:53:23.000 They all had an opioid crisis.

01:53:25.000 Exactly.

01:53:25.000 No.

01:53:25.000 Just here?

01:53:26.000 Just here.

01:53:27.000 Just here.

01:53:27.000 And predicated on kind of an assumption that there should be no pain.

01:53:33.000 Yeah.

01:53:34.000 That's what it was...

01:53:35.000 But that's kind of...

01:53:36.000 The root was no one should be in any discomfort ever.

01:53:39.000 Right.

01:53:40.000 And isn't that kind of the issue with the world?

01:53:45.000 I mean, listen, I don't want to be mean to people, but...

01:53:49.000 What are comics good at?

01:53:51.000 Well, very good at being uncomfortable.

01:53:53.000 Yeah.

01:53:53.000 Dying on stage.

01:53:54.000 They call it dying for a reason.

01:53:56.000 Yeah.

01:53:57.000 It's dying.

01:53:58.000 Bombing.

01:53:59.000 It's called bombing because the sound, it's like after, when you see a movie and they see Black Hawk down and the bomb blast goes off and everyone's ears are blown out.

01:54:06.000 It's just nothing. 0.99

01:54:08.000 It's just fucking nothing. 0.98

01:54:10.000 But being uncomfortable is like, what... 0.99

01:54:15.000 What are you unwilling...

01:54:16.000 What discomfort are you unwilling to experience?

01:54:20.000 Yeah.

01:54:20.000 And conversely, the other side of it is killing.

01:54:22.000 Killing. 0.99

01:54:23.000 Yeah. 0.97

01:54:24.000 I got him. 1.00

01:54:26.000 I killed. 0.95

01:54:27.000 You get off stage, they're roaring with laughter and they cheer. 0.93

01:54:30.000 We got him.

01:54:31.000 They killed it.

01:54:33.000 And the experience for the audience of being in that.

01:54:37.000 It's the greatest experience for me as an audience member. 0.99

01:54:41.000 To this day, the thing that I love the most is being in the audience when someone is just fucking... 0.97

01:54:46.000 Whether it's music or comedy, it's the same thing for me. 0.95

01:54:49.000 It's just this beautiful experience of someone just in there.

01:54:52.000 I went to see Post Malone recently in Houston. 0.99

01:54:56.000 And it was a fucking incredible show. 1.00

01:54:58.000 God damn it was good. 1.00

01:55:00.000 It was so good. 0.99

01:55:01.000 So much energy.

01:55:03.000 The lights and the sound and his passion for it and the crowd loved him.

01:55:07.000 And I left there, I felt like I was a better person.

01:55:10.000 I left there, I was like, God, I just got elevated.

01:55:13.000 I find if you see a great band live, I saw The Killers recently, I went to see them in Edinburgh.

01:55:17.000 They're here real soon.

01:55:18.000 I love those guys.

01:55:20.000 Ronnie and Brandon are the best.

01:55:22.000 But that thing of like, you see a great band, it kind of anchors you.

01:55:27.000 You feel Seventeen again.

01:55:29.000 There's something in you that just...

01:55:31.000 This is just...

01:55:32.000 Yeah.

01:55:33.000 It's that spirit of it.

01:55:35.000 Yes.

01:55:36.000 I suppose the great thing about music, it's non-verbal communication.

01:55:39.000 We don't really sort of think of it as such, but it just cuts to that thing of, here's an interesting thing, right?

01:55:44.000 So we want old music, new movies.

01:55:48.000 And it's primitive mind, higher mind.

01:55:51.000 So the primitive mind wants to do things again and again. 1.00

01:55:57.000 Eating, fucking, listening to the same song. 0.99

01:56:00.000 You want to do these things again and again and again and again and again. 1.00

01:56:03.000 That's the primitive mind.

01:56:04.000 And music taps into that somehow.

01:56:06.000 It's somehow kind of...

01:56:09.000 Gets into your system.

01:56:10.000 And that thing of like those, like your favorite album.

01:56:12.000 I don't know what your favorite album is, but I know it came out when you were 18. I know at 17, 18, when you first got a driver's license, that first sense of freedom, that album that you had on in the car.

01:56:21.000 For me, it would be the Stone Roses, the Stone Roses, whatever it is for you.

01:56:24.000 But it'll be from that age with 95% of people.

01:56:28.000 And then, I mean, I listen to a lot of new music.

01:56:30.000 I'm kind of obsessed by it.

01:56:32.000 But there's something about a familiar tune.

01:56:33.000 And yet movies, we want new stories, because it's for the higher mind.

01:56:37.000 I was chatting to my friend Johnny McDade recently, who's a songwriter, and we're chatting about story songs, because he's got this idea to write songs with stories, to kind of connect, try and connect the two.

01:56:50.000 It's an interesting concept.

01:56:52.000 Well, that is one of the reasons why country music, new country music in this country, is taking off.

01:56:57.000 Yeah, because it's stories.

01:57:00.000 Yeah.

01:57:00.000 Like, almost all the songs are about someone's life and some story in their life or some passage in their life or some moment where everything changed.

01:57:09.000 Yeah.

01:57:10.000 It's interesting.

01:57:11.000 It's like country is...

01:57:12.000 It's kind of...

01:57:14.000 It's rock and roll without the irony.

01:57:16.000 It's really interesting.

01:57:18.000 It hasn't got that...

01:57:19.000 It's very emotionally raw.

01:57:21.000 Yes.

01:57:21.000 I don't know if you've ever been around.

01:57:22.000 I've written a couple of songs with friends or whatever.

01:57:24.000 That thing of like...

01:57:25.000 It's very exposing.

01:57:27.000 Yes, sure.

01:57:28.000 In a way that, jokes you can kind of hide behind a little bit.

01:57:31.000 I'm just messing around here.

01:57:32.000 But the exposing kind of nature of going, no, no, this is heartfelt.

01:57:36.000 This is what I feel.

01:57:38.000 It's beautiful.

01:57:39.000 Yes.

01:57:40.000 And it's really someone showing their neck.

01:57:43.000 Yes.

01:57:44.000 And when you connect to that, when you hear a song and go, well, that's just, that's exactly how I feel.

01:57:50.000 Yeah.

01:57:50.000 I mean, it's a weird thing, like, there's certain emotions that I can only, like, grief, I think, is one of them.

01:57:56.000 I often have a thing with songs, like a song will come on the radio, and the grief that comes over you, you remember exactly where you were when you heard that song with the person, and it's, like, really beautiful.

01:58:11.000 Music, it's extraordinary.

01:58:12.000 Especially, I mean, I can play the guitar a tiny bit, but the idea of, like, the mastery that these guys have.

01:58:19.000 And there's so much great stuff.

01:58:22.000 It's constantly being created.

01:58:24.000 There's constantly new music that's coming out.

01:58:26.000 I feel a bit, like, bad for musicians now in terms of going, there's a lot of comedians filling arenas, and it's only getting bigger, and theatres, and comedy clubs, and lots of comics.

01:58:38.000 They're very evenly spread, it feels to me.

01:58:41.000 It feels like music has gone the way of film.

01:58:46.000 It used to be 100 movies came out every year, 200 movies.

01:58:50.000 And yeah, sure, one did better than the others.

01:58:52.000 It's a big hit.

01:58:53.000 But lots of movies did okay.

01:58:55.000 Now it feels like less is made, and they just, they all, the top ten, or books, the top ten books.

01:59:02.000 We sell as many books now as we sold in the 80s.

01:59:05.000 We sell as many records as we sold in the 80s.

01:59:07.000 But ten artists sell all of them.

01:59:10.000 Hmm.

01:59:11.000 It's not a spread.

01:59:13.000 And I think it's because the corporations got involved.

01:59:16.000 Hmm.

01:59:17.000 So think about 70s cinema and how incredible.

01:59:19.000 I just read the Quentin Tarantino cinema speculation.

01:59:22.000 I'm only watching 70s movies now.

01:59:24.000 It's so impassioned hearing him talk about the movies that he loved.

01:59:29.000 Yeah.

01:59:30.000 It kind of went through the book.

01:59:31.000 It's infectious.

01:59:32.000 Oh, it's like the passion, the genius.

01:59:35.000 He was an amazing guy to talk to.

01:59:37.000 I mean...

01:59:38.000 I mean, his mind is so fascinating.

01:59:41.000 The way he approaches the art form, it's so different than anybody else.

01:59:45.000 And also, his films are grandfathered in.

01:59:49.000 Like, there's hyper-violence in his films that would be, like, really criticized today if it was a new film.

01:59:55.000 There's, like, male-on-female violence.

01:59:58.000 There's a scene in...

02:00:00.000 I always talk about this scene from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where Brad Pitt kills one of the Manson girls by smashing her head against a mantelpiece.

02:00:07.000 And it's like, Jesus Christ, it's so wild.

02:00:11.000 Yeah.

02:00:11.000 I mean, that movie was incredible.

02:00:13.000 Incredible.

02:00:14.000 All of his films.

02:00:15.000 He doesn't have a bad movie.

02:00:16.000 I don't know if that movie is the same for people that didn't know the story.

02:00:19.000 Because I was so tense watching the movie going, oh, I know what's going to happen.

02:00:24.000 Oh, my God, I can't believe it.

02:00:26.000 And then it doesn't happen. 0.98

02:00:27.000 And you go, oh, it's the same Twinkies and Glorious Bastards. 0.99

02:00:30.000 Yes, yes. 0.81

02:00:32.000 So fantastic.

02:00:33.000 But at that point I was making about like, right, okay, so 70s cinema was like kind of, yeah, there was a studio system, but it was a bit independent.

02:00:40.000 The corporations hadn't got hold of it.

02:00:41.000 And then in the 80s it became packaged and...

02:00:44.000 The algorithm hadn't been created yet.

02:00:46.000 And now you go...

02:00:48.000 Well, there's great cinema being made.

02:00:49.000 There's wonderful movies and filmmakers out there telling proper stories.

02:00:52.000 But a lot of movies now, the big ones, children's movies.

02:00:55.000 Yeah.

02:00:56.000 Anything with a good guy and a bad guy and no nuance...

02:01:00.000 Well, in this country, the biggest movies are superhero films.

02:01:04.000 And they're great.

02:01:05.000 And they're really enjoyable.

02:01:07.000 They're enjoyable.

02:01:08.000 But it's not One Flew of the Cuckoo's Nest.

02:01:10.000 Right.

02:01:11.000 It's not Taxi Driver.

02:01:12.000 I didn't realize until Milos Forman died.

02:01:15.000 I read the obituary of Milos Forman, and I had to watch One Flew of the Cuckoo's Nest again.

02:01:21.000 I went, oh, it's about capitalism and communism.

02:01:26.000 Really?

02:01:26.000 I didn't get it.

02:01:27.000 I didn't get it. 0.96

02:01:28.000 I felt like such a dummy.

02:01:29.000 I went back and watched it again.

02:01:31.000 I think he came from what was Yugoslavia.

02:01:35.000 And obviously the book existed, Ken Casey.

02:01:38.000 And then when he made the movie, for him, it was about the communist system versus the freedom of...

02:01:46.000 I watched it as a young man and I watched it again maybe three years ago.

02:01:50.000 Oh my god.

02:01:52.000 That movie is...

02:01:53.000 It's a phenomenal movie.

02:01:55.000 I need to watch it again.

02:01:56.000 I haven't watched it in decades.

02:01:57.000 That thing of like, if you keep communism, capitalism kind of in your head of like, what's the subtext of this?

02:02:02.000 It's just...

02:02:03.000 I've got some time this weekend.

02:02:05.000 I'll watch it again.

02:02:06.000 Oh, it's really rewarding.

02:02:08.000 There's a few of those films that I really need to go back and watch again.

02:02:11.000 I said Taxi Driver because that's another one that I've been really thinking about watching again.

02:02:15.000 There's a few of those old films, you know.

02:02:18.000 Well, you know this theory on Lindy Books?

02:02:21.000 Have I heard that theory?

02:02:22.000 I know that term, but I forgot what it means.

02:02:24.000 Okay, so it's like, it's the idea, like, the lifespan of something is the life.

02:02:28.000 So most of what is consumed in our world on phones, most of what people are looking at was produced in the last 24 hours.

02:02:36.000 And will be gone in 24 hours.

02:02:39.000 No one ever says this.

02:02:41.000 No one ever goes, you've got to see this TikTok from two years ago.

02:02:44.000 It's my favorite.

02:02:45.000 It's never been said.

02:02:46.000 No one's had that conversation.

02:02:48.000 Right.

02:02:48.000 So it's disposable, disposable, disposable.

02:02:50.000 What stood the test of time?

02:02:52.000 So it's the books is the first thing, right?

02:02:54.000 So you go, well, these books are great books and they've been around for 100 years or they've been, you know, George Orwell or Dostoevsky or those great books.

02:03:03.000 Why have they stood the test of time?

02:03:06.000 Margaret Atwood, whatever it is, whatever the great book that you enjoy, why is that stood the test of time?

02:03:12.000 That's worth reading.

02:03:13.000 That's worth giving your time to.

02:03:15.000 What's the record?

02:03:17.000 That's been around and people still talk about now.

02:03:20.000 What's the thing that you could listen to that you go, oh, this is really going to be brilliant.

02:03:25.000 I know this is good.

02:03:27.000 And I kind of find that an interesting idea with cinema.

02:03:30.000 We're all so drawn to the new, the new, the new all the time that we never go back and go, well, what are the greats?

02:03:36.000 Yeah.

02:03:37.000 And especially in our industry, in comedy or whatever, we are, you know, shout out to Dick Gregory, but going back and watching the people that invented what we do, I find that the frequency has changed in comedy.

02:03:52.000 Like the laughs per minute has just increased.

02:03:55.000 You watch stuff from the 70s and 80s.

02:03:56.000 It's not quite the frequency.

02:03:57.000 And I think it's that thing of the comedians were working with an audience that hadn't seen this before.

02:04:03.000 It's the audience that have come with us.

02:04:06.000 Those comics, I mean, Richard Pryor is as good as anyone working today.

02:04:09.000 But his gags per minute was led by, he's waiting for the audience to catch up to the ideas.

02:04:14.000 Yes, yes.

02:04:16.000 Yeah.

02:04:17.000 I think people are very educated about comedy now.

02:04:19.000 One of the beautiful things about this club is that I see that a lot of these people are really hardcore comedy fans.

02:04:27.000 I met guys on the plane out.

02:04:28.000 I met some guys in the airport lounge who were flying out from Newcastle in the north of England to come to the club tonight.

02:04:36.000 And that was their holiday.

02:04:38.000 They said, yeah, I'm going to Austin, Texas to go to Joe Rogan's club.

02:04:42.000 Because they asked me what I was doing.

02:04:43.000 I said, I'm going out to do Joe Rogan.

02:04:45.000 And they went, oh, we're going to the club as well.

02:04:46.000 What night are you going?

02:04:47.000 I went...

02:04:48.000 Well, I'm doing the podcast. 0.99

02:04:50.000 I'm a fucking big deal. 0.98

02:04:55.000 Yeah, it's become comedy tourism here. 0.99

02:04:57.000 It's really nice.

02:04:58.000 Yeah.

02:04:59.000 It's nice too because I don't have to travel.

02:05:01.000 I've been able to do a lot of shows and just people come to us.

02:05:05.000 Rereading books, watching old movies.

02:05:08.000 I don't think you can see the same movie twice.

02:05:11.000 Right.

02:05:12.000 It's like you can't stand in the same river twice.

02:05:15.000 Different river, different man.

02:05:17.000 Right.

02:05:17.000 People think different river.

02:05:18.000 It's a different man.

02:05:20.000 Yes.

02:05:20.000 Like if you saw One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest 20 years ago and you rewatch it, you go, well, this is just phenomenal.

02:05:26.000 And really, what do you remember?

02:05:27.000 Yeah.

02:05:28.000 You kind of remember maybe one or two kind of snippets of a scene, something visual, but like rereading old books.

02:05:33.000 Mm-hmm.

02:05:35.000 Especially with non-fiction, you kind of go, well, I'm getting totally different things from it this time.

02:05:39.000 Yes, because you have a different perspective, a different person, different information that you have at your disposal.

02:05:48.000 Have you got that imprint app?

02:05:50.000 No.

02:05:51.000 What is that?

02:05:52.000 It's like it does visuals on books.

02:05:55.000 So if you've read a nonfiction book like Black Swan, it does...

02:06:00.000 It's like the...

02:06:03.000 I don't know what you would call it here, like the short version, the York notes, we would call it in the UK? Yeah, cliff notes.

02:06:08.000 Cliff notes on the book.

02:06:10.000 Fantastic for things that you've...

02:06:12.000 I read years ago and you kind of go, oh yeah, no, I remember that.

02:06:15.000 And it's all the kind of salient points from the book.

02:06:17.000 It's really interesting to kind of re-look at stuff.

02:06:19.000 But it's also great for looking at stuff and going, I don't need to read that.

02:06:23.000 You know, some self-help stuff.

02:06:25.000 That's nothing.

02:06:26.000 And then some of them you kind of look at it and go, oh, I think I should read that.

02:06:29.000 That feels like it would be my thing.

02:06:31.000 It's great, like, quick...

02:06:32.000 Check.

02:06:33.000 I love those things.

02:06:35.000 Like Blinkist, I love as well.

02:06:37.000 You know, that kind of just when they do the, okay, this is what the book is, but go and read it if you, you know.

02:06:43.000 At the end, you can click and buy it.

02:06:45.000 Whatever's great.

02:06:45.000 And sometimes it's good to read something like that after you've read it.

02:06:48.000 It just sort of refreshes those ideas in your head.

02:06:51.000 Because acquiring information is one thing, but retaining information is another.

02:06:57.000 Well, here's what no one talks about.

02:06:58.000 People are obsessed by diet, right?

02:07:00.000 Because everyone wants to get more trim or better shape or fitter or whatever.

02:07:05.000 You think about what you put in your body.

02:07:08.000 And then you say, well, I watched eight hours of Love Island and Married at First Sight.

02:07:15.000 Well, that's...

02:07:17.000 That's McDonald's and Subway.

02:07:19.000 Yes.

02:07:19.000 That's not...

02:07:20.000 I mean, great.

02:07:22.000 Once in a while.

02:07:23.000 Yeah.

02:07:24.000 Come on.

02:07:24.000 Delicious.

02:07:25.000 Once in a while, yeah.

02:07:26.000 Have a McDonald's burger.

02:07:27.000 Yeah, treat yourself.

02:07:27.000 Great.

02:07:28.000 Once in a while, watch 90 Day Fiance.

02:07:30.000 Yes, once in a while.

02:07:32.000 Yeah.

02:07:32.000 But what's your regular diet?

02:07:33.000 What's the thing you're putting in your body?

02:07:35.000 So this show, for a lot of people, is...

02:07:38.000 Is food.

02:07:39.000 You know, food for thought, literally.

02:07:41.000 And for me as well.

02:07:42.000 But you go, well, that thing about going, well, what else are you reading?

02:07:45.000 What are you taking in?

02:07:47.000 Are you just watching the same stuff again?

02:07:49.000 That thing of like listening to new music, I think, is like, because it does open up a different pathway.

02:07:54.000 Yes.

02:07:55.000 Yeah, it definitely does.

02:07:57.000 Yeah.

02:07:57.000 And old music sort of refreshes these old pathways.

02:08:03.000 I saw the Rolling Stones recently.

02:08:07.000 There's a racetrack out here, Circuit of the Americas, and they did this outdoor concert, this enormous venue.

02:08:13.000 Right.

02:08:13.000 And it was incredible.

02:08:14.000 Security wasn't done by the Hells Angels again, is it?

02:08:17.000 No, not this time.

02:08:17.000 Not this time.

02:08:18.000 They've learned from that mistake.

02:08:19.000 Guys, we're giving you one more try.

02:08:21.000 But if anyone dies, there's going to be trouble.

02:08:23.000 You know what I started rereading recently is Hells Angels, the Hunter S. Thompson book.

02:08:27.000 Oh, is it?

02:08:28.000 I've never read it.

02:08:29.000 It's incredible.

02:08:29.000 Because there's that movie coming in.

02:08:31.000 I watched the trailer for the new Tom Hardy.

02:08:34.000 Is that?

02:08:35.000 Have you seen?

02:08:35.000 Let's put it up.

02:08:36.000 Is that about the book?

02:08:37.000 No, it's about Hell's Angels?

02:08:39.000 I think it's called Motorbikers or Motorbike Riders.

02:08:43.000 Motorbike Riders.

02:08:44.000 Bike riders. 1.00

02:08:45.000 It looks phenomenal.

02:08:48.000 The movie's incredible.

02:08:49.000 Or the book, rather, is incredible.

02:08:51.000 It's Hunter S. Thompson, the beginning of his career, when he was first experimenting with this gonzo journalism thing, which is like...

02:08:59.000 He's essentially using fiction and non-fiction together.

02:09:04.000 And he made up a lot of things, apparently, and he pissed a lot of the Hells Angels off because a lot of what he did was very similar to what he did with Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

02:09:13.000 What's their motto?

02:09:13.000 The Hells Angels' motto is, two can keep a secret if one is dead.

02:09:17.000 Guys, guys, we're trying to attract new members.

02:09:21.000 Team meeting.

02:09:22.000 Well, he also goes into the roots of how they got established, and it's a lot of people that were disenfranchised from the Vietnam War.

02:09:30.000 They were just shell-shocked and broken.

02:09:33.000 PTSD. Yeah, and they couldn't fit in with society anymore, and then they found this wild group of people that also couldn't fit in with society, and they found a brotherhood, much like the brotherhood that they had in the military.

02:09:44.000 I met a guy when I was in...

02:09:45.000 I was doing a gig in...

02:09:46.000 I'm just trying to think where it was.

02:09:48.000 It was somewhere, I think, Hamilton in New Zealand, where they have kind of biker gangs and they've got some...

02:09:55.000 Oh, yeah?

02:09:55.000 And I was...

02:09:56.000 You know, they've got big biker gangs in New Zealand, yeah.

02:09:57.000 Oh, I didn't know that.

02:09:59.000 Have you played New Zealand?

02:10:00.000 No.

02:10:01.000 You've got to go.

02:10:02.000 I mean, it's phenomenal.

02:10:04.000 Phenomenal place.

02:10:05.000 New Zealand, Australia, I was there for three months this year.

02:10:08.000 It's just the best.

02:10:09.000 The best audiences.

02:10:10.000 Wonderful people.

02:10:11.000 Anyway, I'm there.

02:10:12.000 I'm on stage.

02:10:13.000 I'm chatting to a guy in the front row.

02:10:14.000 What do you do?

02:10:16.000 I'm in the Hells Angels.

02:10:18.000 And the guy kind of looked kind of scrawny.

02:10:20.000 I said, what do you do?

02:10:20.000 He said, accounts.

02:10:23.000 Accounts?

02:10:23.000 The accounts guy.

02:10:24.000 Wow.

02:10:25.000 The accounts guy.

02:10:26.000 And he told you he's in the Hells Angels?

02:10:29.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:10:29.000 I mean, I think he may have been a fucking idiot. 1.00

02:10:34.000 Full disclosure, he may have been a fucking idiot, but he was wearing the biker thing, he had the biker tats, but a really scrawly guy. 1.00

02:10:39.000 I just love the idea, someone joined a biker gang and gone, right, what am I doing? 1.00

02:10:44.000 Am I in charge of...

02:10:45.000 You guys need shell accounts.

02:10:47.000 Am I getting the crystal meth?

02:10:49.000 Am I running the hookers? 1.00

02:10:50.000 Am I protection?

02:10:53.000 No, we need someone to do double entry bookkeeping because this is getting out of hand.

02:10:57.000 Someone's got to...

02:10:58.000 There's no toilet paper.

02:11:00.000 Someone's...

02:11:00.000 Who's...

02:11:02.000 Someone's doing the admin for like...

02:11:05.000 It's a weird thing.

02:11:06.000 Someone's doing that for the Hells Angels.

02:11:08.000 I guess.

02:11:08.000 You have to or else it'll fall apart.

02:11:10.000 Office admin.

02:11:11.000 Yeah.

02:11:12.000 Wild.

02:11:12.000 Yeah.

02:11:13.000 Yeah.

02:11:14.000 Those sort of groups of people that are outcasts of society have always been attracted to people.

02:11:20.000 Well, I mean, what are you talking about?

02:11:21.000 Yeah.

02:11:22.000 Outcasts in society that all come together and find a brotherhood.

02:11:25.000 You just opened a comedy club, did you?

02:11:26.000 Yeah.

02:11:27.000 It's the same thing of like that.

02:11:29.000 It's back to that Alan Havy.

02:11:31.000 It's we're out for ourselves, but in it together.

02:11:34.000 Who said it to me?

02:11:35.000 Mike Wilmer.

02:11:36.000 In a room of 3,000 people with a one person facing the wrong way.

02:11:40.000 Mmm, right.

02:11:42.000 That's a lovely...

02:11:43.000 That's a great way to put it.

02:11:45.000 I think comics are people that could fit in, but chose not to.

02:11:49.000 Most comedians I know, you go, well, at high school, I was in like four different groups.

02:11:55.000 Or university at four different friendship groups and kind of kept them kind of separate from each other.

02:12:00.000 I don't know why, but I was kind of attracted to that kind of having my own stuff.

02:12:05.000 I always think like the question for comedians, if I meet a comic I don't know, you want to get to know them, I always go, which one of your parents was sick?

02:12:13.000 Interesting.

02:12:14.000 I think, I mean, I hit the bullseye 90% of the time.

02:12:17.000 Because for most comics, someone was sick physically or mentally sick, and you had to make it okay.

02:12:23.000 You had to have the ability to change the mood in the household.

02:12:27.000 Yeah.

02:12:28.000 To make things okay.

02:12:30.000 To be funny.

02:12:32.000 That thing of like...

02:12:34.000 Breaking the tension.

02:12:35.000 What's being funny?

02:12:36.000 What are we doing?

02:12:38.000 Funniness has a root in our evolution that people don't...

02:12:42.000 Laughter is a million years older than language.

02:12:46.000 It's a different part of the throat that you laugh with.

02:12:48.000 I mean, my weird...

02:12:48.000 I've got a weird laugh.

02:12:50.000 I laugh on an in, not an out, but...

02:12:52.000 Even regular laughs.

02:12:53.000 It's a million years older than language.

02:12:54.000 And really, if you talk to Robin Dunbar, I did a documentary with him, who's the guy that came up with the Dunbar number, of like, how many friends can you have?

02:13:02.000 Because he talked about a lot on social media.

02:13:05.000 So silverback gorillas can have about 60 in a pod. 0.70

02:13:09.000 I think it's called a pod of gorillas.

02:13:11.000 So silverback gorillas can have about 60 in the group, and they groom each other. 1.00

02:13:16.000 And then it gets to 65, and there's five guys going... 0.96

02:13:20.000 I don't even fucking know that guy. 0.82

02:13:22.000 Start our own pod. 0.98

02:13:23.000 And they start their own pod.

02:13:25.000 Now, that doesn't sound very interesting.

02:13:28.000 But human beings, because we had laughter, it was remote grooming.

02:13:36.000 So we could have bigger pods.

02:13:38.000 We could have 150 people in our little groups.

02:13:42.000 And 150 people allow specialization.

02:13:46.000 And specialization allows civilization.

02:13:50.000 So it's an incredibly important thing.

02:13:53.000 And really, when you think about what most laughter is, it's this thing where you go, I'm not a threat.

02:13:59.000 Everything's all right.

02:14:00.000 We're all fine here.

02:14:01.000 We're all good.

02:14:02.000 We all get it.

02:14:03.000 Other animals, when we show our teeth, it's trouble.

02:14:07.000 And we do it to show it.

02:14:08.000 It's OK. It's in the spirit of play.

02:14:11.000 That is fascinating, the teeth thing, right?

02:14:14.000 Yeah.

02:14:14.000 How wild is that?

02:14:15.000 That we are so far removed from using our teeth as weapons that when we show our teeth, it's like, ah!

02:14:22.000 It's fun.

02:14:23.000 But it's also, it's in the spirit of play.

02:14:25.000 Yes.

02:14:25.000 Because it's the same as like, well, tickling is if you tickle someone in the street, try it.

02:14:31.000 They're not going to laugh.

02:14:32.000 A random stranger in the street, try and tickle them.

02:14:34.000 It has to be playful.

02:14:35.000 Both people have to be involved.

02:14:37.000 Yeah.

02:14:37.000 Like a little play fight.

02:14:39.000 Yeah.

02:14:40.000 It's...

02:14:42.000 It's testing the boundaries of what's okay.

02:14:45.000 Yeah.

02:14:46.000 And laughter does the same thing.

02:14:48.000 I think that thing about what it does, it rewards pattern recognition, verbal dexterity, and it allows us to get on in bigger groups.

02:14:59.000 The importance can't be overstated.

02:15:01.000 And you unite people in some strange way.

02:15:04.000 People with completely different opinions about things.

02:15:07.000 It's one of the things that I've said that's amazing about comedy as well is that you can go on stage and have an opinion and I can be in the audience and I have a completely different opinion and I don't agree with you at all.

02:15:16.000 I'm like, I don't agree with this guy.

02:15:18.000 But if you go on stage with an opinion and you make me laugh, You have somehow or another, you've injected that idea into my mind and now I have to consider how the irony and how the comedic value of your expressing that opinion.

02:15:35.000 Unfortunately, unfortunately, you're not the first guy to notice this.

02:15:39.000 So, I mean, Hitler knew it and that's why cabaret is such a great piece because those clubs, those cabaret clubs in Germany, And if you laugh with someone, it's like...

02:15:54.000 How did Hitler use that?

02:15:55.000 He shut down the clubs.

02:15:57.000 Really?

02:15:58.000 He shut down all...

02:15:59.000 Have you never seen Cabaret?

02:16:00.000 No.

02:16:01.000 Oh, you've got to see Cabaret.

02:16:02.000 So these incredible German clubs...

02:16:05.000 What year is that from?

02:16:06.000 Well, cabaret, like the movies, Liza Minnelli's 72 maybe.

02:16:11.000 And that's what it's about?

02:16:12.000 Yeah.

02:16:12.000 So these clubs, it's like the end of it is like the heartbreaker.

02:16:16.000 I'm kind of ruining the ending.

02:16:17.000 But it's these clubs in Germany in the 30s of like these incredible, full of life, magical people.

02:16:24.000 And, you know, lots of Jewish people in those cabaret clubs.

02:16:32.000 We're good to go.

02:16:48.000 But if you can make them seem like other, then it's very dangerous.

02:16:52.000 So that thing of going, nailing the landing of...

02:16:55.000 I remember seeing one, Alan Cummings, doing cabaret in London.

02:16:59.000 And these people that you've seen singing and dancing and living their lives.

02:17:04.000 And then at the end of the show, they're in pyjamas in the snowfalls.

02:17:09.000 And you realise they all got wiped out.

02:17:11.000 It's like...

02:17:17.000 What's really horrific about human beings is how recent that was and how we have sort of dismissed that as an artifact of time and that it's not possible today.

02:17:28.000 It's very scary.

02:17:30.000 I think people give themselves...

02:17:33.000 It's not everyone, but people sort of think, well, if slavery was going on today, I'd fight it.

02:17:39.000 And if there was if Hitler was around today, I'd fight it. 0.98

02:17:42.000 And you go, but he is and there is this 40 million slaves currently in the world.

02:17:47.000 Yeah.

02:17:48.000 More slaves in the world right now than during 1865 when they abolished slavery in America.

02:17:55.000 It's horrific.

02:17:55.000 And look at North Korea.

02:17:58.000 That's the best example.

02:18:00.000 You know, if you want to see a state where—I mean, we have very little news from there.

02:18:04.000 Very few people get out, but the ones that do, it's— Horrific.

02:18:07.000 George Orwell's 1984, it's happening right now.

02:18:12.000 Somewhere.

02:18:13.000 Yeah.

02:18:13.000 I mean, I kind of thought that was like an interesting idea on America's original sin is slavery.

02:18:21.000 And there's no way to change the past.

02:18:25.000 But one thing you could do, if you can't work out reparations and people don't seem to be able to work out what to do with that, but one thing you could do is make America's foreign policy, why don't we just stop slavery?

02:18:36.000 Who couldn't get behind that?

02:18:37.000 Right.

02:18:38.000 Globally, to say, well, just, you've got an incredible military, there's injustice going on in the world.

02:18:44.000 That idea of being the world's policeman, I don't know, I mean, freeing slaves, who could disagree with that?

02:18:52.000 Who's putting up a case against it?

02:18:53.000 The problem is that you're addressing the way the United States interfaces with the world as if we're just trying to do overall good.

02:19:00.000 That's not really what happens with this whole empire building thing.

02:19:04.000 What's really going on is controlling resources and coming up with some reason that you have to intervene.

02:19:12.000 In order to acquire these resources or control these resources or protect your resources.

02:19:17.000 You know what I think that is?

02:19:19.000 Short money.

02:19:20.000 Short money.

02:19:21.000 Because what's a resource?

02:19:22.000 There's things that are resources now that won't be in 20 years.

02:19:26.000 You know what the biggest industry in the world was in 1903?

02:19:29.000 Beavers.

02:19:30.000 Very close.

02:19:32.000 I'll pass you.

02:19:34.000 I'll give you a C. Whaling was the biggest industry in the world in 1903. And whaling disappeared overnight.

02:19:41.000 Like in a year and a half, it was gone.

02:19:43.000 Those towns were just emptied because the whale oil wasn't required anymore.

02:19:49.000 Because suddenly we discovered petrochemicals.

02:19:52.000 Electricity too.

02:19:53.000 Petrochemicals was really the thing.

02:19:54.000 Yeah, the whale oil, electricity, Edison, all of that stuff for Tesla.

02:19:59.000 It's really interesting how that industry just fell away.

02:20:02.000 It's like the story of horse manure in New York City.

02:20:06.000 You know this?

02:20:07.000 No.

02:20:08.000 So horse manure.

02:20:09.000 You know why the brownstones have got steps up to the front door?

02:20:12.000 You ever wondered about that?

02:20:13.000 Why is the ground floor not on the ground floor?

02:20:16.000 Why is it up steps?

02:20:17.000 Why? 0.83

02:20:18.000 Horseshit. 0.97

02:20:19.000 Really? 0.99

02:20:19.000 There was horseshit everywhere. 0.99

02:20:20.000 They've always got those metal scrapers by the side. 0.92

02:20:23.000 Yeah, to get the horseshit off.

02:20:24.000 You know the old movies, they always talk about smelling salts.

02:20:26.000 There's a lot of references to smelling salts.

02:20:28.000 Yeah, the smell was horrific.

02:20:29.000 If a horse died in the street, you had to wait for it to atrophy.

02:20:33.000 To cut it up and take it away.

02:20:36.000 New York was the sound.

02:20:37.000 Cobbled streets, metal wheels on the carts.

02:20:40.000 Horses everywhere.

02:20:41.000 So they made a law to say, right, horses, we're going to put a tax on them.

02:20:45.000 Didn't change anything.

02:20:46.000 Made another law the next year.

02:20:47.000 We're doubling the taxes.

02:20:49.000 Right, we're going to do a thing with, we're going to say, if you have a horse, then you have to do this, you have to do that, whatever it was.

02:20:55.000 Kept on, kept on, kept on.

02:20:57.000 And what stopped it?

02:20:58.000 Henry Ford.

02:21:00.000 Cars came along.

02:21:01.000 All gone.

02:21:02.000 There's five of them left in Central Park.

02:21:04.000 Right.

02:21:05.000 All gone in no time.

02:21:07.000 Whaling disappeared over the night.

02:21:08.000 That thing of, like, what's a resource now?

02:21:10.000 America trying to get resources overseas.

02:21:13.000 I mean, I don't want to sound like a Boy Scout, but I think freeing slaves would be a much better thing to do than trying to get control of an oil field somewhere where you go, that's not going to be a resource in ten years' time.

02:21:24.000 Yeah, the problem is it's a resource now.

02:21:26.000 And it's a phenomenal one in terms of the amount of money that you could acquire.

02:21:30.000 But I mean, cobalt wasn't a resource.

02:21:32.000 Right.

02:21:33.000 20 years ago.

02:21:34.000 Right.

02:21:35.000 And now we really need cobalt.

02:21:37.000 And suddenly, I mean, the things that are happening to get it are just horrific.

02:21:41.000 Yeah.

02:21:42.000 I had Siddharth Kara on the podcast.

02:21:44.000 He's a journalist that went to the Congo to document this and brought back video footage.

02:21:49.000 The Democratic Republic of Congo?

02:21:51.000 Mm-hmm. 0.99

02:21:51.000 Any country with democratic in the name, that's a fucking red flag, isn't it? 0.99

02:21:55.000 That's a red flag. 0.99

02:21:56.000 They go, hey, we're democratic.

02:21:58.000 Are you, though?

02:21:59.000 Are you?

02:22:00.000 Yeah.

02:22:01.000 I mean, it's hell on earth out there.

02:22:03.000 It's happening right now.

02:22:05.000 I think that thing of people saying, well, I would go and make a difference.

02:22:07.000 Well, there's stuff going on now if you want to get involved.

02:22:09.000 Well, what's so ironic is that it's one of the most horrific conditions that human beings are imposed, that's imposed upon human beings, but yet it is required in order for you to have a cell phone and complain about the injustices of the world.

02:22:24.000 Every single person that has one of these things, you have in it minerals that were carved out of the ground by people living in the most insane conditions.

02:22:33.000 Child labor, slavery.

02:22:34.000 Slavery, and not just that, like people with babies on their back that are breathing in this cobalt dust, horrific health consequences, everything, all the above.

02:22:45.000 Abject poverty, no electricity.

02:22:47.000 The big thing, again, gratitude.

02:22:52.000 Go back to gratitude.

02:22:53.000 We don't live there.

02:22:55.000 Anyone listening to a podcast, we're doing great.

02:22:59.000 What can we do about it?

02:23:00.000 I don't know.

02:23:01.000 I mean, this is part of the anxiety of the modern world because we're surrounded by problems, told about problems that we have no agency there.

02:23:08.000 We can't sort of do anything.

02:23:10.000 But it's, I don't know.

02:23:12.000 I mean, what's going to be the next resource?

02:23:14.000 Because environmentalism is clearly their right.

02:23:18.000 It's fossil fuels.

02:23:19.000 It needs to stop.

02:23:21.000 But we've already got the downside volatility from splitting the atom.

02:23:25.000 We've already got all the weapons.

02:23:27.000 We could already destroy the world.

02:23:29.000 We've got all of that.

02:23:30.000 Why are we not building?

02:23:32.000 And the tests have been done, right?

02:23:33.000 There's nuclear submarines.

02:23:35.000 You know what the range is on a nuclear submarine?

02:23:38.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:23:39.000 It's unlimited.

02:23:40.000 It's unlimited.

02:23:42.000 They can go forever.

02:23:44.000 I mean, it's crazy.

02:23:46.000 Why isn't every town powered by one of those?

02:23:49.000 Yes.

02:23:49.000 Well, people have this bad taste in their mouth because of the few disasters that have existed when nuclear power was not...

02:23:57.000 Fukushima, right?

02:23:59.000 Yeah.

02:23:59.000 What's the death toll on Fukushima?

02:24:00.000 It's very low, but the toxic pollution...

02:24:02.000 I think it might be nothing.

02:24:04.000 I think it's one person.

02:24:05.000 But the toxic environmental effect of them not being able to shut down that reactor is pretty devastating.

02:24:13.000 Yeah, I tell you what it's not as devastating as.

02:24:16.000 Fossil fuels.

02:24:17.000 So it's as opposed to what is always the question.

02:24:20.000 Burning coal.

02:24:21.000 Right.

02:24:22.000 So burning coal, endlessly burning coal.

02:24:24.000 And anyone that says the environmental problem can be fixed by us cutting back is living in a dream world.

02:24:30.000 Right.

02:24:31.000 Because you go, well, you can't deny...

02:24:35.000 We owe a debt to future generations, and we owe a debt to people that are in different geographies to us.

02:24:41.000 Like, there's no way you can say with good conscience, well, you need to cut back China and India. 1.00

02:24:48.000 I mean, most people in the world, a third of the world don't have flushing toilets.

02:24:52.000 Like, they're living in poverty.

02:24:55.000 So the idea that they won't need energy is insane.

02:24:58.000 And we've nailed the technology, and we just never...

02:25:04.000 We got nervous.

02:25:06.000 Worse than that, Germany shut down their nuclear power plants.

02:25:09.000 I mean, people shut them down because there's this negative connotation.

02:25:14.000 There's this negative association that people have with nuclear.

02:25:17.000 Well, I mean, I don't know about...

02:25:20.000 I'm not an expert, but Fukushima, I think, was a 40-year-old technology.

02:25:26.000 Yes.

02:25:26.000 There is new tech in that now.

02:25:28.000 Yes.

02:25:29.000 Oh, yeah.

02:25:29.000 I mean, I can't understand why, like, the big oil companies...

02:25:33.000 Why isn't someone, like, instead of just going, you've got to, every time there's an oil spill, you've got to clean up the seabirds better, or, you know, the Gulf of Mexico disaster was horrific what happened.

02:25:44.000 You go, why don't you just say you've got to invest half of your profits in nuclear?

02:25:49.000 Take it private.

02:25:50.000 Private seems to get things done quicker than governments.

02:25:52.000 Yeah.

02:25:53.000 The real problem is there's still an insane amount of money to be made from fossil fuels.

02:25:57.000 You know, there's a desire for it and there's a market for it and people are already making money doing it.

02:26:03.000 I don't know though, but okay, so if you want ants, put down sugar.

02:26:09.000 The incentives need to be there.

02:26:12.000 Yeah.

02:26:13.000 So let's put down some...

02:26:15.000 BP could be the next traditional oil major to invest in the quickly evolving nuclear fusion sector.

02:26:20.000 I mean...

02:26:21.000 Join a list of companies including Chevron, E&I, and...

02:26:24.000 But that happened after I said it, right?

02:26:27.000 May 19th.

02:26:28.000 I said...

02:26:28.000 What?

02:26:29.000 A few months ago.

02:26:30.000 Ah, change the date.

02:26:32.000 Jesus.

02:26:32.000 That would...

02:26:33.000 I think that's kind of the...

02:26:35.000 Because those guys, you go, would you buy stock in Shell Oil today?

02:26:39.000 I wouldn't.

02:26:40.000 Because if you're buying stocks and you said, look, I'm going to leave my kids a bunch of stocks and shares, what do I think is going to be there in 30 years' time?

02:26:47.000 Yeah.

02:26:49.000 I'm sure.

02:26:50.000 And I don't know whether it'll be like someone gluing themselves to a jumbo jet.

02:26:56.000 I think it's going to be someone goes, there's more money to be made, like in New York with Henry Ford and like the whaling industry.

02:27:06.000 You know, if those guys want to make money, they worked for Rockefeller.

02:27:10.000 Well, obviously they realize that as well, which is why they're investing so much money.

02:27:13.000 But I love the idea of that.

02:27:14.000 I've gone, well, we could be a generation that goes, look, do you see Oppenheimer?

02:27:18.000 I haven't seen it yet, no.

02:27:19.000 I heard it's amazing.

02:27:21.000 Is it out on iTunes yet?

02:27:23.000 Can you get in?

02:27:25.000 That's the problem.

02:27:26.000 You've got to go to a movie theater.

02:27:27.000 But it's worth going to a movie theater.

02:27:29.000 I'm sure it is.

02:27:29.000 I think that thing with Christopher Nolan movies as well.

02:27:31.000 You kind of go, it's a bit like, I don't know, Tarantino or Kubrick.

02:27:36.000 Like that thing of like, you know when movies you go, I wish I'd been there to see Kubrick movies on the big screen back in the day.

02:27:42.000 I remember seeing the last Tarantino.

02:27:46.000 I remember going really clearly to Once Upon a Time in America and going, well how many movies has this guy got left?

02:27:51.000 Maybe three or four.

02:27:52.000 Right.

02:27:53.000 Because they take a long time to make more.

02:27:54.000 I think only one.

02:27:55.000 We said one, but please.

02:27:57.000 Make more. 0.55

02:27:59.000 But sitting in the movie theater, I haven't seen this movie.

02:28:01.000 It's my first time seeing it.

02:28:02.000 I know I'm going to see it four or five times.

02:28:04.000 And it's such a...

02:28:07.000 Yeah, the way it's meant to be seen.

02:28:09.000 It's so special.

02:28:10.000 With the sound and the immense screen.

02:28:12.000 Yeah.

02:28:14.000 It's the way it's meant to be seen.

02:28:15.000 It's incredible.

02:28:16.000 I think the Nolan things as well for me, I mean, you know, whether you've got favorites or not, but they're visually just, it's stunning.

02:28:24.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:28:26.000 No, I'm definitely going to see it.

02:28:27.000 I just, going to the movie theater to me is just, last time I went to see a movie, I brought my kids to see Barbie and there was a group of people just talking, just talking out loud.

02:28:37.000 Right.

02:28:38.000 And someone had to shut them up and just, a lot of people were frustrated before they shut them up and You know, it's like that thing, rude people.

02:28:45.000 It's tricky that, like, do you intervene or not?

02:28:51.000 Right, because then people get in fights.

02:28:53.000 Yeah, people get in fights, and it's not worth getting in a fight over, but you go, especially if you're sort of telling someone off and going, oh, guys.

02:28:59.000 Be quiet, please.

02:29:01.000 Sometimes you get it in comedy shows where you go...

02:29:04.000 I've done it before where we went to see a show in the West End of London and a lot of people at the show had never been out to the theatre before because it attracted a broader audience.

02:29:15.000 So people were on their phones and people were kind of chatting a little bit but you kind of went, okay, but they're...

02:29:20.000 They're learning this thing.

02:29:21.000 Like, no one's expected to get it the first time.

02:29:23.000 Right.

02:29:23.000 But you go, there's a certain etiquette to this.

02:29:26.000 It's like, you go to a comedy club, the first time you're there, you might think, yeah, I could just...

02:29:29.000 Because you're used to watching it on Netflix.

02:29:31.000 So, you can get your chat and be on your phone, and then you're told, and the second time, you know what's going on.

02:29:36.000 Like, it feels like some...

02:29:38.000 But would you tell it, I'm in an American theater?

02:29:41.000 I wouldn't...

02:29:41.000 You've got open carry here.

02:29:43.000 I wouldn't take the risk.

02:29:44.000 Yeah, it does happen.

02:29:46.000 People definitely get in fights in movie theaters.

02:29:49.000 That's why.

02:29:49.000 Some people are just very rude.

02:29:52.000 They don't give a fuck about other people's experiences. 0.94

02:29:55.000 And that's this sort of agreement that you make when you go to a movie theater is that you're going to be polite and you're going to sit there and enjoy the film and you're not going to disrupt it for other people. 0.96

02:30:04.000 Some people don't care.

02:30:05.000 I think it's...

02:30:08.000 I think people are fundamentally good.

02:30:09.000 Yes.

02:30:10.000 And I think that thing of, they've not realized that and they're embarrassed because they got caught out. 0.98

02:30:16.000 Like if it, I mean sometimes like, you know, 14, 15 year old kids might just be, they didn't give a fuck or whatever. 0.96

02:30:21.000 They're in their thing and they're fronting. 0.98

02:30:23.000 Great. 1.00

02:30:24.000 But I think most people, most grown people go, oh yeah, shit, sorry. 1.00

02:30:27.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:30:28.000 But you can't say that because it's that weird status game you get into.

02:30:34.000 Did you read that Will Storr book, The Status Game?

02:30:38.000 No.

02:30:38.000 Really good.

02:30:39.000 Like, really interesting about, like, there's kind of a weird status game going on in every interaction in life.

02:30:44.000 It's his premise.

02:30:46.000 You go, yeah, there is.

02:30:47.000 Like, there's that weird thing when you go into a coffee shop, you order a coffee, and someone comes in after you, and they serve their coffee before you get yours.

02:30:55.000 No. 0.99

02:30:56.000 No, what the fuck is going on here? 1.00

02:30:58.000 Right. 0.98

02:30:59.000 That weird reaction of going, you're never going to see them again.

02:31:02.000 You don't know who this is.

02:31:04.000 And somehow yet you're annoyed and perturbed by that because our egos are quite fragile.

02:31:09.000 But realizing we're in those status games all the time.

02:31:12.000 So that thing of like, why fights in cinemas?

02:31:14.000 Because there's a weird status game going on with a perfect stranger you're never going to see again.

02:31:19.000 Just...

02:31:20.000 Silencing you.

02:31:21.000 Chastising you.

02:31:21.000 You've done martial arts or whatever, and I think that thing that teaches kids should really be...

02:31:28.000 Again, we should teach comedy in schools.

02:31:30.000 I think martial arts would be a great shout because the guys I know that have done that very rarely get into fights.

02:31:37.000 Yeah.

02:31:37.000 It's very rare.

02:31:38.000 It would stop bullying, believe it or not.

02:31:40.000 It sounds counterintuitive, but most bullies bully because they're insecure.

02:31:44.000 And they want other people to feel bad so that they feel powerful because they don't feel powerful.

02:31:49.000 And if you could just teach them martial arts, they wouldn't do that.

02:31:53.000 Most of them.

02:31:54.000 There are a few that would.

02:31:55.000 But that's always just going to have...

02:31:57.000 There's just such a spectrum of psychological issues that some people have.

02:32:01.000 Yeah.

02:32:02.000 But most people, if you taught the martial arts, the difficulty of doing it, first of all, it drains all of the anxiety and stress out of your body because it's so physically demanding.

02:32:12.000 So you're more calm and peaceful because of that.

02:32:14.000 It is an interesting thing when you think about what...

02:32:15.000 I suffer a little bit with anxiety.

02:32:17.000 Not so much the last while, but I have done historically.

02:32:20.000 And it's that...

02:32:22.000 Anxiety, what is it?

02:32:23.000 Well, you're trying to solve a future problem now, something that hasn't happened.

02:32:27.000 It's like a counterfactual in your head, an imagined problem, and you're trying to solve that.

02:32:33.000 And your mind, if you have a creative mind, is whirring away, trying to do that.

02:32:37.000 And you're trying to...

02:32:38.000 And you're obsessing on it.

02:32:40.000 You're obsessing about this thing.

02:32:42.000 And so giving yourself something to do in the moment, if you have to bench press something, I'm afraid it's very difficult to worry about the imagined future problem.

02:32:51.000 Right.

02:32:52.000 You're in the moment.

02:32:53.000 Yeah.

02:32:53.000 And I presume even more so, I've never done martial arts, but even more so if someone has got you in a headlock.

02:32:59.000 100%.

02:33:00.000 And you're having to tap out.

02:33:01.000 100%.

02:33:01.000 Yeah.

02:33:02.000 And it teaches you discipline.

02:33:04.000 There's a lot of things that, you know, bullies need and people that are insecure need.

02:33:12.000 It's a very interesting perspective there to go, because our thing is on dealing with bullying, it's the people that are bullied come forward and tell someone.

02:33:22.000 But actually, that's a very interesting point because upstream of that is the bully. 0.98

02:33:27.000 And what the fuck is going on there? 0.99

02:33:30.000 Most of them are abused. 1.00

02:33:31.000 You'd be much more upset to hear that your kid is a bully than is being bullied. 0.71

02:33:38.000 I mean, they're both bad. 0.90

02:33:39.000 Yeah, they're both bad. 1.00

02:33:40.000 They're both bad, but if your kid's a bully, it's like, ah, fuck. 1.00

02:33:43.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:33:45.000 He's a dick. 1.00

02:33:45.000 Or you've raised someone who's victimizing others. 1.00

02:33:48.000 Something bad happened to your kid is bad.

02:33:51.000 Yes.

02:33:52.000 Your kid doing something bad is worse, I would argue.

02:33:54.000 So that thing of going, how do we do something for them?

02:33:57.000 Right.

02:33:58.000 Listen, there'll be young people listening.

02:34:00.000 If you have that in you, Go to that.

02:34:04.000 Yes.

02:34:04.000 Go to discipline.

02:34:06.000 Yes.

02:34:06.000 Yeah.

02:34:07.000 And learn how to conquer those demons.

02:34:10.000 And most bullies have been abused.

02:34:12.000 The vast majority of them have been physically abused.

02:34:15.000 Something happened to them and now they want to impose it on other people.

02:34:19.000 It's very sad.

02:34:21.000 It's very sad.

02:34:21.000 And it causes so many suicides and so many people's wrecked lives.

02:34:26.000 I met people that have never gotten over experiences that they had in grade school.

02:34:31.000 Yeah.

02:34:33.000 It's an epidemic.

02:34:34.000 I mean, the suicide epidemic is so bad.

02:34:38.000 And that line, it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

02:34:44.000 It's just a lack of perspective.

02:34:46.000 It's a lack of being able to see you want this feeling to end.

02:34:50.000 Not life, this feeling.

02:34:52.000 And this too shall pass.

02:34:54.000 You'll get through it.

02:34:56.000 There's another side to this.

02:34:59.000 Your perspective is just—but in that moment, it's so locked in.

02:35:05.000 It's a horrible place to find yourself in.

02:35:08.000 It is.

02:35:08.000 And it's so difficult to understand someone else's perspective, too, because we all have— A certain amount of discomfort in our life, a certain amount of anxiety, a certain amount of depression.

02:35:18.000 And with some people, it's just insurmountable.

02:35:21.000 Yeah, I think it's, yeah, that thing of like, how difficult is it for them?

02:35:25.000 And you kind of can't understand.

02:35:27.000 I mean, we've had quite a lot of friends, I mean, in the comedy world.

02:35:30.000 Yeah.

02:35:31.000 That have taken their own lives.

02:35:32.000 And I always think the surprising thing is how few people in comedy haven't.

02:35:36.000 It's like, we should see what comedy does for people.

02:35:40.000 Because a lot of people are drawn to it.

02:35:42.000 They're drawn to that light because of the darkness.

02:35:46.000 And it's amazing, actually, the cathartic nature of what we do.

02:35:52.000 And sadly, some people still do.

02:35:56.000 Yeah, it's so devastating when someone who's loved, like a Robin Williams type person does it.

02:36:00.000 I don't think as well.

02:36:01.000 I don't think you can make the pain go away if you commit suicide.

02:36:05.000 All you can do is dissipate that pain.

02:36:08.000 And the people that you love...

02:36:09.000 They will experience that pain.

02:36:12.000 It's like it's an energy force that goes, okay, it's got to be felt by someone.

02:36:17.000 It's just so awful.

02:36:18.000 Yeah, I first experienced suicide when I was on news radio, when I was on a sitcom.

02:36:26.000 One of the writers, who's a good friend of mine, killed himself.

02:36:28.000 He was going through some marital thing and called his wife on the phone and shot himself in the head while he was on the phone with his wife.

02:36:37.000 And knowing that was just so devastating.

02:36:40.000 It was just so horrible.

02:36:42.000 Because he was such a great guy.

02:36:44.000 What was he called?

02:36:45.000 What was his name?

02:36:46.000 Drew.

02:36:47.000 Drew.

02:36:47.000 Yeah, I don't want to put his last name out there.

02:36:50.000 I always think it's nice to...

02:36:51.000 You know that old thing of like, you die twice.

02:36:54.000 You die when you die, and you die the last time someone says your name.

02:36:57.000 It's nice to remember people. 0.83

02:36:59.000 Drew shot himself.

02:37:01.000 I wish he hadn't.

02:37:02.000 But it's that thing.

02:37:03.000 It's nice to remember people.

02:37:05.000 It's a horrible pain to go through.

02:37:08.000 It's so confusing, though, when you love a guy and you think he's a great person and you really love being around him.

02:37:14.000 You're happy when you see him.

02:37:16.000 And then either whatever the hell they're going through is just in their mind.

02:37:22.000 But the most important relationship you're going to have in your life is the relationship you have with yourself.

02:37:27.000 And the way some people treat themselves and their internal dialogue and how they speak to themselves.

02:37:33.000 They would never treat another person like that.

02:37:36.000 Right.

02:37:37.000 It's awful.

02:37:38.000 And like that circle of compassion that they had, you know, the good to everyone else in their life, and yet they can't be good to themselves.

02:37:46.000 They can't include themselves in that group.

02:37:49.000 They're somehow just a voice.

02:37:53.000 Yeah.

02:37:53.000 You know, there's a lot of factors, too, in how they grew up.

02:37:57.000 Well, I mean, yeah, there's environmental, but also there's genetic things.

02:38:02.000 I mean, some people have a predisposition towards depression.

02:38:06.000 I mean, I also think there's that thing of, like, there's things that get conflated, like depression and sadness.

02:38:12.000 Like, in my mid-20s, I thought at the time I was depressed.

02:38:16.000 I was working for a big company.

02:38:18.000 I hadn't started doing comedy yet.

02:38:19.000 I hadn't found what I wanted to do in my life.

02:38:21.000 And I thought I was depressed, and I wasn't.

02:38:22.000 I was sad.

02:38:23.000 And being sad is somehow less socially acceptable than being depressed.

02:38:28.000 But being sad is great.

02:38:29.000 Because when you're sad, it's like circumstantial.

02:38:32.000 I don't like the circumstance that I find myself in.

02:38:34.000 Yes.

02:38:35.000 But you can do something about that.

02:38:37.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:38:37.000 If you have a depression, a serotonin imbalance in your head, that's a hard fucking road. 0.99

02:38:42.000 It's a hard fucking road. 1.00

02:38:44.000 It really is. 1.00

02:38:45.000 Yeah.

02:38:46.000 I mean, I do hear great things about, I mean, I've got a mutual friend of ours that was clinically depressed for 25 years.

02:38:55.000 And...

02:38:59.000 Yes.

02:39:06.000 Yes.

02:39:17.000 You know, that thing of whatever's in ayahuasca, I don't know what it's made from, but someone's going to be going, okay, that experience that people are having, like the microdosing mushrooms that they're giving to veterans and having incredible results with PTSD and, you know, reintegrating those guys is phenomenal.

02:39:32.000 I mean, it's amazing.

02:39:34.000 It feels like that will be...

02:39:37.000 We talked about the Overton window a bunch of times today, but that thing of like pushing this conversation, pushing what is acceptable to talk about, what people can do.

02:39:46.000 Yes, and that is a great example of that Overton window because that was not acceptable to talk about just a few decades ago.

02:39:54.000 Just a few years ago.

02:39:55.000 Yeah.

02:39:55.000 I mean, really, after Timothy Leary, it all got shut down and kind of, okay, the classification for drugs went crazy.

02:40:02.000 It strikes me that the You know that William Gibson, the sci-fi writer?

02:40:08.000 I've heard of him.

02:40:09.000 He said this brilliant thing.

02:40:10.000 He said, the future is here, but it's not evenly distributed.

02:40:14.000 I've heard that about the apocalypse.

02:40:16.000 But the idea that you go, okay, well, the apocalypse comes to us all.

02:40:19.000 Yeah, well, the apocalypse is here.

02:40:20.000 It's just not here.

02:40:23.000 It's in the Congo.

02:40:24.000 Yeah.

02:40:27.000 But that idea of going, we kind of have best practice in everything you care about somewhere in the world.

02:40:33.000 Yes.

02:40:34.000 So, like, Portugal is my favorite example of this.

02:40:36.000 So Portugal, Lisbon, the drug laws.

02:40:39.000 Lisbon used to be the roughest.

02:40:41.000 I mean, one of the roughest towns in Europe.

02:40:42.000 It was like, it's a port city.

02:40:44.000 It was a big heroin town.

02:40:46.000 It was rough.

02:40:47.000 And I think 15 years ago now, they legalized all drugs.

02:40:52.000 Yes.

02:40:54.000 And here's the thing.

02:40:55.000 That's where the story ends for a lot of people.

02:40:57.000 But that's not what happened.

02:40:58.000 What they did was they legalized all drugs.

02:41:00.000 They figured out how much money they were spending on the war on drugs.

02:41:03.000 And they spent it all on rehabs and education and facilities.

02:41:08.000 I brought up that argument about America.

02:41:10.000 I mean, that's the cure to the fentanyl crisis.

02:41:13.000 Is if they legalize drugs in America and put all the money that they're...

02:41:17.000 People don't want to be on it.

02:41:19.000 They want to be in rehab.

02:41:20.000 So you go, all of the DEA law enforcement stuff goes into therapeutic things.

02:41:25.000 No one seems to get addicted to mushrooms and ayahuasca.

02:41:28.000 Once you get the message, you hang up the phone.

02:41:31.000 So that thing of whatever the method is that works for you, it might be 12-step.

02:41:35.000 It could be some psychotropic.

02:41:38.000 Whatever it is, whatever works for you.

02:41:39.000 But imagine the research that could go into that with that budget.

02:41:44.000 And you go, look, you're not going to win the war on drugs.

02:41:46.000 You don't even, like, there's prisons, high security, category A prisons, and they've got drugs in them.

02:41:53.000 You can't even keep the drugs out of there.

02:41:56.000 Good luck with the borders.

02:41:58.000 Yeah.

02:41:59.000 It strikes me as like you go, just admit you're not going to win that fight.

02:42:04.000 Right.

02:42:05.000 And what are we going to do?

02:42:07.000 And that best practice of going, well, that's going on in Portugal now.

02:42:10.000 They've done a 15-year test case.

02:42:12.000 We know it works.

02:42:14.000 I mean, Lisbon now.

02:42:15.000 Have you been to Lisbon?

02:42:16.000 No.

02:42:16.000 You've gone to Lisbon.

02:42:17.000 Yeah.

02:42:18.000 Food is, I mean, I mean the Portuguese, it's fabulous.

02:42:22.000 It's such a great city.

02:42:24.000 Such a great city.

02:42:26.000 Lisbon and Porto.

02:42:27.000 I mean, I don't really know the rest of Portugal that well, but they're both phenomenal places to play gigs and they love stand-up comedy.

02:42:33.000 Isn't it crazy that that little country was like conquering the world at one point in time?

02:42:37.000 Sorry, I'm from Great Britain.

02:42:38.000 Hi.

02:42:39.000 Hi.

02:42:40.000 Yeah, you guys did too.

02:42:41.000 We had a great run.

02:42:43.000 It wasn't bad.

02:42:44.000 I'll tell you what we used to own.

02:42:45.000 This.

02:42:47.000 Sort of.

02:42:48.000 Crazy.

02:42:48.000 Yeah.

02:42:49.000 Crazy, right?

02:42:50.000 It is crazy.

02:42:51.000 It's crazy how empires rise and fall.

02:42:53.000 And that's one of the things that people are wondering currently about America.

02:42:57.000 If we're in the last throes of a dying empire.

02:42:59.000 Well, here's my...

02:43:00.000 I got a hot take on this.

02:43:01.000 Please.

02:43:01.000 I don't think they do.

02:43:03.000 So, I don't think the Roman Empire fell.

02:43:05.000 I think it became a church.

02:43:08.000 I think the, so the Rome fell, but the Roman Empire became the church.

02:43:13.000 Where's all the money from the Roman Empire?

02:43:16.000 The Vatican.

02:43:17.000 In the basement of the Vatican is where it is, yeah.

02:43:19.000 I don't think the British... 1.00

02:43:21.000 The Vatican.

02:43:22.000 Yeah.

02:43:23.000 It's incredible.

02:43:24.000 Bizarre.

02:43:25.000 It's incredible.

02:43:26.000 It's a city within a city.

02:43:27.000 The wealth, the sheer wealth in art is overwhelming.

02:43:32.000 Yeah.

02:43:32.000 Like St. Peter's Basilica, when I walked in there, my mouth was open the entire time I was there, like...

02:43:40.000 You just can't believe the amount of craftsmanship, the architecture, the art, the painting.

02:43:47.000 Well, I mean, if you think about culturally what happened, every song, every painting was about God until 100 years ago.

02:43:55.000 And now every song's about love.

02:43:58.000 I think they're talking about the same thing, but that's me being an old hippie.

02:44:02.000 So Roman Empire became a church. 0.81

02:44:04.000 British Empire became a bank.

02:44:07.000 So we gave our empire back.

02:44:09.000 We said, oh yeah, sorry about that.

02:44:11.000 You can have that back.

02:44:13.000 We gave, you know, Saudi Arabia back and all these other places that we'd sort of taken the resources.

02:44:19.000 And then they had their own money.

02:44:21.000 And then we went, oh, what are you doing with that money?

02:44:25.000 Because we've got this thing called the City of London.

02:44:27.000 I'll tell you what.

02:44:28.000 It's your money, but we're going to hold it.

02:44:31.000 We'll have it over here.

02:44:32.000 Is that okay?

02:44:33.000 Yeah, fine.

02:44:34.000 Great.

02:44:34.000 So we've still got that thing of like...

02:44:36.000 And culturally, I think, you know, America is...

02:44:40.000 I mean, America's extraordinary.

02:44:42.000 It's an extraordinary place.

02:44:44.000 It's kind of based on this amazing premise.

02:44:46.000 It strikes me that America is...

02:44:52.000 It's better now objectively than it has ever been and subjectively worse than it's ever been.

02:45:02.000 Mm.

02:45:03.000 So you go, the experience, it seems bad.

02:45:07.000 But objectively, when you look at the metrics, it's good.

02:45:10.000 So that's kind of Steven Pinker thing.

02:45:11.000 But I mean, subjectivity is important.

02:45:13.000 Like people aren't...

02:45:14.000 People feel like they're at war.

02:45:16.000 Mm-hmm.

02:45:17.000 And actually, this is the land of milk and honey.

02:45:19.000 You know, it's...

02:45:21.000 And I think it's still got a bit of that thing of like the...

02:45:25.000 Austin, Texas maybe has it as much as anywhere.

02:45:29.000 It's whispering, you know, go and be yourself.

02:45:33.000 The pursuit of happiness.

02:45:34.000 It's still got that kind of dream.

02:45:38.000 Well, I'm always fascinated how people from other parts of the world see it.

02:45:42.000 That's what's interesting.

02:45:43.000 When someone comes here and they just, like, look around.

02:45:46.000 Like, I had the Trigonometry guys here the other day.

02:45:49.000 Oh, yeah.

02:45:49.000 Yeah.

02:45:50.000 Francis and Constantine.

02:45:52.000 And when we were here and we were coming to the club, they were like, mate, this place is incredible.

02:45:58.000 Like, just the freedom that you guys have and the wildness that's in the air.

02:46:03.000 Like, it's so intoxicating and exciting.

02:46:07.000 Like, this is something, something's really happening here.

02:46:11.000 Well, you know, it's a beacon.

02:46:13.000 It's always been a bit of a beacon, America, because it's kind of founded on an idea.

02:46:17.000 And, you know, it's that...

02:46:19.000 The devil's in the detail.

02:46:22.000 I always think of the Statue of Liberty.

02:46:23.000 You've ever seen...

02:46:24.000 There's a thing in Paris, in the Musée d'Orsay.

02:46:27.000 There's the model.

02:46:28.000 They made a model of the...

02:46:30.000 Because it was crowdfunded, the Statue of Liberty.

02:46:32.000 It was a gift from the people of France to the people of America.

02:46:35.000 Right?

02:46:36.000 Kind of post-revolution.

02:46:37.000 They thought, well, that's a good idea.

02:46:38.000 Yeah, we'll get them something nice.

02:46:40.000 We'll get them a nice statue.

02:46:42.000 So they funded it.

02:46:43.000 The French people gave money.

02:46:44.000 And when you see it, when you see the model of the Statue of Liberty, you realize she's not just carrying a torch.

02:46:49.000 She's walking forward.

02:46:52.000 You realize she's moving forward.

02:46:54.000 And it kind of changes it.

02:46:55.000 Yeah.

02:46:57.000 Yeah.

02:46:58.000 It's, you know, there'll be, I think there's potential for, I mean, I think America hasn't seen its finest days yet.

02:47:04.000 I would hope.

02:47:06.000 I would hope as well.

02:47:07.000 I mean, Britain has to find a new place in the world.

02:47:09.000 You know, Brexit and everything happened.

02:47:10.000 We need to find, you know, it's purpose.

02:47:13.000 I think with people, with nations, with the world, it's like finding purpose is very important.

02:47:19.000 Yeah.

02:47:19.000 And what's the next, you know, purpose going to be?

02:47:21.000 How are we going to fit in?

02:47:23.000 What's our place going to be?

02:47:26.000 Yeah.

02:47:27.000 Let's end there.

02:47:28.000 It's perfect.

02:47:30.000 Fun talking. 1.00

02:47:31.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

02:47:32.000 Appreciate you, brother. 0.99

02:47:34.000 Thank you very much.

02:47:34.000 Thanks for being here.

02:47:35.000 Oh, tell everybody about your tour.

02:47:38.000 Oh, I'm shilling a tour.

02:47:40.000 Yeah, okay.

02:47:41.000 Hi.

02:47:42.000 Hi.

02:47:42.000 My name's...

02:47:43.000 Now, I know we talked a lot about suicide, but I'm a really funny guy.

02:47:48.000 Come see me live.

02:47:49.000 That's a gear change, isn't it?

02:47:51.000 It is.

02:47:52.000 If you care to buy the best, come and see me live.

02:47:55.000 I'm a one-liner guy.

02:47:56.000 Very edgy.

02:47:57.000 I'm on Netflix.

02:47:58.000 Check me out before you come to the show.

02:47:59.000 It might not be for you.

02:48:00.000 It might be.

02:48:01.000 You're a very funny guy.

02:48:02.000 I'm a fan.

02:48:03.000 Thank you very much.

02:48:04.000 Appreciate it.

02:48:04.000 Thank you, man.

02:48:05.000 My pleasure.

02:48:06.000 All right.

02:48:06.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 07, 2023

Joe Rogan Experience #2045 - Jimmy Carr

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Transcript