The Joe Rogan Experience - December 27, 2023


Joe Rogan Experience #2079 - Brigham Buhler

Topics
Big Pharma and HIV crisis testosterone and prostate cancer managed care plan rebates pharmacy benefit pharmacy benefit manager fraud NAD treatments for MS large language models advances medicine large language model behaviors stem cell treatments and aging pharmacy benefit managers and drug pricing profit-driven healthcare system MINES and psychedelics for brain performance stem cell treatments red light therapy Aaron's recovery and alternative treatments
Hosted by
Joe Rogan
Guests
Brigham Buhler
Mentioned
Aaron Alexander Dana White Jamie Alan Gary Brecka Jesus Christ Bruce Dahmer Eisenhower Huberman Aaron Rodgers Ian White Jump David Sinclair Rick Dahmer Rick Doblin Muay Thai Synovitis Brigham Peter Attia Joe Rogan Podcast and 29 more
Joe Rogan Experience #2078 - Duncan Trussell Joe Rogan Experience #2080 - John Reeves

Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 14 minutes

Words per minute

162.79

Word count

21,865

Sentence count

1,838

Harmful content

Misogyny

10

sentences flagged

Toxicity

127

sentences flagged

Hate speech

6

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Big Pharma's war on peptides is a symptom of a disease, not a cause. And to understand the disease, we have to go back in history to see how Big Pharma got to where it is today. And the disease is private industry and its influence on the federal government, and the decisions they make. And it's a disease that's spread throughout all of the government and it's spread through every facet of our government, including the military industrial complex. And we're here to break it all down. Today, we're taking a deep dive into the history of Big Pharma's role in our healthcare system, and how they've gotten to where they are today, and what they've done to get us to where we are today. We're going to take a look at how they got there, and why it's so important to understand what's going on in the world of pharmaceuticals and the role Big Pharma plays in our health care system, as well as how they influence our government and our elected officials. And we'll talk about the real cause of this disease, which is Big Pharma and the influence they have on our government. Joe Rogan's The Joe Rogans Experience, by day, by night, all day, and by night by night all day by night. All day long, by Joe's perspective on life and liberty and the meaning of liberty and freedom and freedom. Today's episode is a mashup of two different perspectives on what's happening in our world and how we should be thinking about the world and what we can do to improve our lives and the way we should we should think about our health and our lives. I hope you enjoy it, and that we can learn from it, because it's going to have a better day, not have it, so we can be better, better, and have a more informed, more informed day to day life. -Joe Rogan - Joe's Note: This episode was originally published in the New York Times on Nov. 7, 2019. . It's a good one, so make sure to check it out and tweet me what you think of it! and let me know what you thought of it on Instapreneurspace in the comments section if you have any thoughts or feedback you'd like it, we'll be listening to it. Tweet me on Insta: or share it on your feed!

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Joe Rogan Experience" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
00:00:11.000 Hello.
00:00:13.000 What's up, man?
00:00:14.000 We're back.
00:00:15.000 We're back.
00:00:16.000 What's cracking?
00:00:17.000 Same stuff, new day.
00:00:19.000 Yeah, sort of.
00:00:20.000 The war on peptides is going on right now.
00:00:24.000 It is.
00:00:24.000 It's interesting.
00:00:26.000 To explain it is going to take a little bit of time, but I'd love to dig into it.
00:00:31.000 Yeah, let's explain it because there is no reason why they would be banning these things other than for their own profit.
00:00:41.000 You got it.
00:00:42.000 That's the only reason.
00:00:44.000 There is no danger that these things are causing.
00:00:47.000 There's no public health concern.
00:00:49.000 There's no people dropping dead.
00:00:51.000 But meanwhile, people are dropping dead from the ones that they have sanctioned.
00:00:58.000 Yeah, and so I like to tell people what you're seeing is a symptom of a disease.
00:01:02.000 And the same thing we do in healthcare.
00:01:04.000 We don't talk about the symptoms.
00:01:06.000 We don't treat this.
00:01:07.000 We unfortunately do treat the symptom and not the root cause of the disease.
00:01:10.000 And so to diagnose what the real issue is, we've got to dig a little deeper into the history and what's going on there.
00:01:18.000 And it's a pretty insidious disease.
00:01:21.000 And it's spread throughout all of the government.
00:01:24.000 And that disease is private industry and its influence on the federal government and the decisions they make.
00:01:31.000 And we're going to talk a little bit about large language models later in the future of what I think healthcare is.
00:01:37.000 But one of the critiques of large language models is...
00:01:41.000 It's only as good as the data you put in.
00:01:56.000 They're going to come to conclusions and decisions and policies that benefit Big Pharma.
00:02:01.000 And so if we take a little walk through history, you'll see time and time again how this has happened.
00:02:08.000 So I'm going to jump way back first, if you're good with this.
00:02:10.000 So you go way back.
00:02:14.000 There was a small little company that reached out to the Third Reich and said, Literally,
00:02:33.000 within six months, there's letters back to the Third Reich from this pharmaceutical company saying, Thank you so much for your cooperation.
00:02:42.000 The women arrived in great health and working order.
00:02:46.000 Unfortunately, none of them made it through the initial phases of our trial.
00:02:51.000 They killed 150 women.
00:02:53.000 We kindly request that you send us another 150 women. 1.00
00:02:57.000 That little company became Bayer.
00:03:00.000 Which is now a mega pharmaceutical company.
00:03:03.000 And I say that because, right, that was the 50s.
00:03:06.000 It would have changed by now.
00:03:08.000 That was forever ago, right?
00:03:10.000 The world's a different place.
00:03:11.000 We would never allow that today.
00:03:14.000 Jump forward post-World War II. I talked about this on RFK's podcast.
00:03:19.000 Eisenhower had that...
00:03:21.000 Can I pause on that?
00:03:21.000 You said it was the 50s.
00:03:22.000 It couldn't have been the 50s.
00:03:23.000 Well, the 40s, sorry.
00:03:24.000 So Eisenhower jumped forward to...
00:03:26.000 Is there a way to turn the volume down on this?
00:03:27.000 Yeah, there's a button or knob right there.
00:03:29.000 There we go.
00:03:30.000 So jump forward to Eisenhower's speech, his famous speech about the military industrial complex.
00:03:38.000 What a lot of people don't realize is there was a second half to that speech where Eisenhower warned the American people about the medical industrial complex.
00:03:47.000 He warned that if we allow private industry to control, monopolize, and profiteer Off of health and healthcare, that they will silo innovation, stifle innovation, and capitalize and monetize innovation.
00:04:04.000 And I would argue that's 100% what we've seen.
00:04:08.000 And it's continuing.
00:04:10.000 And the reason I want to walk the public through this is because to understand what's going on, you've got to see the history of how it's happened.
00:04:17.000 So, now you jump forward to the 80s, okay?
00:04:21.000 Time and time again, when Big Pharma has had an opportunity to choose left or right, over and over again, they have chose profits over patient outcomes.
00:04:32.000 So, 1980s.
00:04:36.000 Bayer launches a hemophilia drug.
00:04:38.000 They inadvertently contaminate thousands of specimens with HIV. They know that they've contaminated specimens with HIV, this drug with HIV virus.
00:04:49.000 What do they do?
00:04:51.000 They have a decision.
00:04:52.000 Destroy all of it or ship it to the public anyway.
00:04:56.000 They shipped it into third world countries, Africa and Asian markets and infected 20,000 people with the HIV virus.
00:05:05.000 What?!
00:05:05.000 This is the 80s when it was a death sentence.
00:05:08.000 And so I say that to set the groundwork for why would they ban peptides?
00:05:13.000 Look at this from this article.
00:05:14.000 Division of the pharmaceutical company Bayer sold millions of dollars of blood clotting medicine for hemophiliacs, medicine that carried a high risk of transmitting AIDS to Asia and Latin America in the mid-1980s while selling a new, safer product in the West, according to documents obtained by the New York Times. 0.97
00:05:32.000 Holy shit.
00:05:33.000 And two, everything I referenced, Jamie, because this was something last time, I am going to mention a lot of controversial stuff, so I've listed reference after reference after reference on the Ways to Well website. 0.70
00:05:44.000 Anything that I reference will be on there as well.
00:05:48.000 So jump forward, they infect all these people with HIV. Okay, in the 80s, compounding pharmacies and specialty pharmacies and generic manufacturers attempted to create HIV treatment options that were affordable for third world countries.
00:06:04.000 Because at the time, it was like $14,000 a month for an HIV treatment to keep you alive.
00:06:10.000 Nobody could afford that in those countries.
00:06:12.000 So what happens? 0.72
00:06:14.000 This big pharma in a market they can't sell, in a market they can't touch, in a market where they inadvertently infected, or I would say almost knowingly infected 20,000 people with HIV, they then lobby with the U.S. government, file and sue the shit out of all of these companies that were attempting to make cost-effective generics.
00:06:35.000 It caught it up in litigation for three years before finally they bent to the will of the American people and the feedback of Of the public.
00:06:44.000 There was outrage over this.
00:06:47.000 And finally, after three years of litigation, Big Pharma said, basically, screw it.
00:06:52.000 Go ahead and give them the HIV. Let them make these HIV meds in these countries that aren't buying our product anyway. 0.98
00:06:58.000 And so I just say all this so you know the people we're dealing with.
00:07:03.000 Right?
00:07:03.000 And then you jump forward to the opioid crisis, which was predicated by the Valium crisis of the, I think that was the 40s or 50s.
00:07:12.000 And so time and time again.
00:07:14.000 And so how does the FDA come to these conclusions?
00:07:18.000 It's because a majority of their funding comes from private industry, and a majority of their discussion, their talk track, their influence, their belief systems, and their thought processes are being influenced by these companies.
00:07:31.000 So when we talk about peptides today in specific, there's over 7,000 peptides on the market, okay?
00:07:39.000 What peptides didn't get banned?
00:07:41.000 That answers the question in itself.
00:07:44.000 The GLP-1 agonists, insulin, those aren't banned.
00:07:47.000 Those are all patented peptides.
00:07:49.000 These are peptides.
00:07:50.000 These are short-chain amino acids found naturally in nature.
00:07:54.000 They were patented for the dosage and delivery mechanism because you cannot patent a molecule.
00:08:01.000 You can only patent the delivery mechanism and the dosage.
00:08:04.000 And so the FDA allows all those peptides, but it's because Big Pharma is monetizing them and Big Pharma has their ear.
00:08:13.000 And so we talked a little bit about this on the last podcast and I didn't dig as deep because we didn't have as much time. 0.96
00:08:20.000 We just burned so much time covering all of this crap.
00:08:22.000 But one of the things I saw is it goes beyond the FDA. This insidious virus that this disease state that we're seeing the symptoms of Carries all the way into the DEA, the DOJ. When I owned my own pharmacies and labs that build insurance, 0.98
00:08:42.000 that was one of the things I was talking about.
00:08:44.000 I hired a former Department of Justice prosecutor to come in and help me build out my compliance program.
00:08:51.000 And he told me, Brigham, when I was at the DOJ, we had an open meeting every month with the heads of the pharmacy benefit managers, where they would come with stacks of papers, books of papers of people that they wanted us to federally indict.
00:09:09.000 Okay?
00:09:10.000 And so, as I begin to layer this, you'll understand where this is going.
00:09:14.000 So, indict, if they can't indict someone if they did, it's nothing wrong, right?
00:09:17.000 That would be the lens that the average American has.
00:09:20.000 So, let me explain.
00:09:23.000 You have a, let's say I build a blood lab, which I did, and I go out and I educate clinicians on the importance of running comprehensive blood work.
00:09:32.000 I go to the insurance companies and I say, I would like to be in network with you, United, Cigna, Aetna.
00:09:38.000 Their response is, go pound sand.
00:09:40.000 We're not taking any more in-network contracts.
00:09:43.000 So my options at that point are to lay everyone off, shut down, and go home, or bill them out of network.
00:09:51.000 The issue with billing them out of network, and so the patients understand, or the listeners, You're paying for out of network benefits and you're paying these big companies, these big insurance companies for the right to be able to choose where you get your blood work done,
00:10:08.000 your blood work analysis, all of these things. 0.92
00:10:11.000 What ends up happening is if you're out of network as a lab, as any of these, whether it's a blood lab, a genetic screening lab, like Gary talked about the MTFHR test, the motherfucker test. 0.84
00:10:24.000 We were doing that eight, nine years ago.
00:10:27.000 That was one of the tests we offered was this gene carrier test to identify the root cause of why people are having these issues.
00:10:34.000 Any of it, insurance said, no, we're not going to let you in network.
00:10:38.000 So you're forced to bill out of network.
00:10:39.000 What does that mean?
00:10:40.000 They pay me 30% of billed charges.
00:10:42.000 So if it costs me $300 and I need to make $350, I now have to basically bill the insurance $1,000 to get paid my $350.
00:10:53.000 Are you following me?
00:10:54.000 Yes.
00:10:54.000 Okay.
00:10:55.000 Now what the insurance companies do is they wait till I've billed them millions and millions of dollars and Then they go sit down at a desk with the Department of Justice and they say, look at this. 0.98
00:11:07.000 This motherfucker billed us $1,000 a test on a test that should have been $350, right? 0.97
00:11:13.000 And I'm not blaming the Department of Justice. 0.99
00:11:14.000 They are acting upon the information that they are given, right?
00:11:18.000 They are being fed bad information by bad players, and that leads to bad decisions.
00:11:24.000 And at that point, if they bring forth a case on somebody, you're done.
00:11:30.000 And so it's a terrifying space.
00:11:33.000 And it's in every branch of the government.
00:11:36.000 There's such a long reach of the ability to impress upon people.
00:11:42.000 So they're almost influencing decision-making through enforcement rather than through legislation, right?
00:11:50.000 So the checks and balances are being cut out from under the American people because there is no checks or balance.
00:11:57.000 Does that make sense at all?
00:11:59.000 And so this is what I explained again on RFK was, but if you didn't do anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.
00:12:07.000 When I started this, the head of the DOJ who I hired to help me with compliance, he told me, there's two things that will get you in trouble with the Department of Justice.
00:12:16.000 A lot of money We're good to go.
00:12:33.000 And now you're on the Department of Justice target list.
00:12:36.000 So doctors, it's beyond them being scared of getting kicked off contract to run these tests.
00:12:42.000 It's beyond them being scared of the insurance companies cutting their reimbursements or not allowing them to participate in their plans.
00:12:49.000 They're scared for their liberties and their freedoms.
00:12:52.000 If they get on the wrong side of an insurance carrier, they're gonna use the justice system as an attack dog to take you out.
00:12:59.000 And this is the honest to God truth.
00:13:02.000 I saw people who were innocent, who did nothing wrong, get federally indicted. 0.97
00:13:08.000 And if you understand anything about that process, The more you know, the more fucking terrifying it is. 0.97
00:13:15.000 It's terrifying, Joe. 0.97
00:13:17.000 Because as soon as they indict you, you're done in the court of public opinion, right?
00:13:23.000 They release something in a way that makes it look like you're this terrible human.
00:13:27.000 They skew the facts through the lens of the insurance companies.
00:13:31.000 And so the insurance companies are essentially saying, hey, Department of Justice, we built the case for you.
00:13:37.000 Here it is.
00:13:38.000 Look, these guys billed us $3 million.
00:13:42.000 They fraudulently billed us and ran up the cost of health care.
00:13:45.000 And that's the path they take.
00:13:47.000 And then once you're on their radar, you don't get to present your half of the case.
00:13:52.000 So to get an indictment, all it takes is a prosecutor presenting to a jury of your peers, which in the state of Texas has an eighth grade literacy level.
00:14:02.000 And they say, hey, these guys billed, you know, United $5 million last year on lab tests that United say should have been, you know, $800,000.
00:14:13.000 Do you think there's enough info to dig deeper?
00:14:16.000 That's all an indictment is.
00:14:18.000 Yeah, there's enough info to dig deeper.
00:14:19.000 That sounds like bad facts and a lot of money, right?
00:14:22.000 But now...
00:14:24.000 It goes beyond that.
00:14:25.000 90 plus percent of the time, once they've indicted you, they file for an asset seizure.
00:14:32.000 And so, if you're an orthopedic surgeon and you were invested in one of these models with labs, all of a sudden, you get indicted.
00:14:41.000 They seize your ability to defend yourself.
00:14:44.000 All your bank accounts are cleared.
00:14:45.000 They can seize your cars.
00:14:47.000 They can take your assets.
00:14:50.000 It's terrifying.
00:14:51.000 And I'm not saying this to say the DOJ is bad.
00:14:54.000 I don't think they're bad at all.
00:14:56.000 I think they're given bad information and heretofore they act in accordance with the information they're given.
00:15:03.000 And it's the same thing with the FDA. The FDA is acting in accordance with...
00:15:07.000 Merck is looking at over 200 peptides for patent.
00:15:12.000 Okay, they're actively investigating over 200—Ibutamorin, which is on the ban list, just popped up.
00:15:18.000 Phase two, FDA trials with another pharmaceutical company.
00:15:21.000 It's on the ban list, but it's in FDA trials now, so they can patent it and monetize it and have a monopoly on it.
00:15:28.000 And what does it do?
00:15:29.000 Ibutamorin is the one that helps stimulate growth hormone.
00:15:32.000 People use it for weight loss and growth hormone production.
00:15:35.000 It's a precursor.
00:15:37.000 And again, it's a safe drug.
00:15:39.000 But it's not even a drug.
00:15:41.000 Again, it's a peptide.
00:15:42.000 And so peptides are short-chain amino acids.
00:15:45.000 And the only reason I go down the path of the DOJ stuff is to just give the public the awareness of it's beyond the FDA. It's in all branches of the government.
00:15:56.000 And Bad info in equals bad decisions out.
00:16:02.000 If you look at it from a different lens, I go, okay, when I try to sit in the seat of an FDA decision maker, I look at it and say, to play devil's advocate, you know, it's one of two things.
00:16:16.000 Do you think the peptide's dangerous?
00:16:18.000 Do you think these short-chain amino acids are dangerous?
00:16:22.000 Because if so, you're allowing big pharma to use them.
00:16:26.000 And there's no data that shows that any of these peptides that are on the banned list are dangerous.
00:16:32.000 Like BPC-157.
00:16:33.000 And when I say banned lists, let me step back on that.
00:16:36.000 They didn't ban the peptides.
00:16:38.000 They reclassified the peptides under a category of dangerous.
00:16:42.000 And through that, they indirectly have killed the market on those peptides because most doctors in America are not going to write a drug that's on an FDA dangerous list because it opens them up to litigation and risk.
00:16:55.000 And how do they classify something as dangerous?
00:16:59.000 Don't they have to have some kind of evidence?
00:17:02.000 In this instance, there's no evidence.
00:17:04.000 There's literally...
00:17:05.000 And even if you look at adverse events that have been reported across the United States, almost all those adverse events are black market.
00:17:11.000 Any adverse event regarding BPC-157 is literally a black market product that somebody bought from China or Canada that's filled with potential particulates or...
00:17:27.000 issues of contamination or lack of efficacy or too much efficacy and so where I was going with this is if you we know for sure that the peptide itself isn't dangerous so then you go and say okay Do you not think that FDA-regulated compounding pharmacies are capable of compounding these peptides?
00:17:49.000 The highest paid person in my building is my quality and compliance guy.
00:17:55.000 He literally worked for Abbott Laboratories for 15 years, working hand-in-hand with the FDA to make sure they follow all of their protocols and procedures.
00:18:05.000 So, just so the public knows...
00:18:09.000 Any product that comes into our pharmacy at Revive, our compounding pharmacy, we make sure it's an FDA-approved ingredient with an independent third-party verification of the ingredient itself, showing that it is 100% the ingredients they tell us it is.
00:18:27.000 Then we compound it in an ISO 5 environment.
00:18:31.000 The law says we need to do ISO 7. We go above and beyond and use an ISO 5 sterile facility.
00:18:38.000 We have the two highest paid employees in our building are our regulatory compliance guys that are over quality controls.
00:18:46.000 Okay, so then from there, whenever we compound a product, we send every single batch off to be independently third-party verified by an independent lab, unaffiliated with us, and we file those records away.
00:19:02.000 Everything is documented.
00:19:04.000 Every aspect from the chain of custody of the ingredient, to the chain of custody of the drug, to the delivery to the patient.
00:19:12.000 All of that is documented.
00:19:14.000 So it's either one, you're saying the peptides dangerous or two, you're saying compounding pharmacies are incapable of compounding drugs that aren't dangerous.
00:19:23.000 And if that's the case, then why are you asking us to compound hundreds of drugs that are on FDA backorder lists?
00:19:31.000 Because your buddies at Big Pharma aren't going to compound them.
00:19:34.000 Because they don't make enough money.
00:19:36.000 They don't generate enough revenue.
00:19:38.000 So half the stuff that's on a crash cart used in the hospital system is made by mom and pop compounding pharmacies.
00:19:45.000 It's like...
00:19:46.000 So the safety is there.
00:19:49.000 The efficacy is there.
00:19:50.000 The sterility is there.
00:19:52.000 And the peptide itself is safe.
00:19:55.000 So I just go back to, I have to believe that you're acting upon bad information.
00:20:01.000 And I want to give them the benefit of the doubt.
00:20:04.000 And, you know, my message is we've got to go meet with the FDA and we've got to start having conversations and we've got to represent...
00:20:10.000 Small compounding pharmacies and the average American because right now they're only hearing half the story and that half of the story is big pharma banging on the desk and saying, hey, we want to patent these peptides.
00:20:24.000 We're going to go through clinical trials.
00:20:26.000 We're going to do it the right way, you know, and we're going to do all these checks and balances.
00:20:31.000 But it's like we don't need you involved in supplements.
00:20:35.000 Like if you really look at it, I mean, again, I've said it.
00:20:39.000 It's a short-chain amino acid.
00:20:41.000 It's not a drug. 0.90
00:20:43.000 It's just bananas that it's that corrupt.
00:20:46.000 Yeah.
00:20:46.000 It really is.
00:20:48.000 It is. 0.99
00:20:48.000 And you going and having a conversation with the FDA, in my mind, that's not going to fix jack shit. 0.99
00:20:54.000 They're going to listen to you and they go, okay. 0.95
00:20:56.000 Well, the other end is what's going to happen.
00:21:00.000 If they really, truly continue to regulate these things out of the marketplace, is you're not going to regulate it.
00:21:05.000 You're just going to shut down the people that follow the rules.
00:21:08.000 You're going to shut down the compounding pharmacies that do things right.
00:21:13.000 Here's an example.
00:21:14.000 Let's talk about the peptides that didn't get banned, the GLP-1s, which is what a lot of people know as Wagovi-Ozempic.
00:21:22.000 The generic names are Trisepatide and Semeglutide.
00:21:28.000 Weight loss drugs, GLP-1 agonists, those are not on the ban list because FDA has, or Big Pharma has patents on those.
00:21:36.000 But they can't patent the molecule, right?
00:21:39.000 They can only patent the dosage and the brand name.
00:21:42.000 So compounding pharmacies throughout the country are compounding those products for pennies on the dollar at a different dosage.
00:21:49.000 And then what happens is, and that's because these products are on an FDA back order list.
00:21:55.000 Okay?
00:21:56.000 This is the whole cycle of the ludicrousness of this situation.
00:22:01.000 The FDA is saying, hey, there's not enough of this product to meet the demand of the American people.
00:22:07.000 And if we really look at what those drugs are, they're not a weight loss drug.
00:22:11.000 They're a diabetes medication.
00:22:12.000 And we know that diabetes directly impacts poverty-stricken and minority communities disproportionately.
00:22:21.000 And so...
00:22:23.000 When we compound these medications to meet the needs of the people who can't get those medications or maybe can't afford those medications because they're on a FDA backorder list and they're asking us to compound them.
00:22:35.000 Big Pharma then turns around and sues compounding pharmacies throughout the country, then uses their long reach of PR firms to put it in the news, make it sound like you don't know what you're doing, like these compounding pharmacies are dangerous, they're not regulated,
00:22:52.000 it's the wild west out there in compounding pharmacies, there's no oversight, these aren't FDA approved products. 0.99
00:23:00.000 Bullshit. 1.00
00:23:01.000 Absolute bullshit. 1.00
00:23:03.000 Do you know how many times the FDA has been in my pharmacy in 18 months? 1.00
00:23:07.000 Twice.
00:23:08.000 We've interacted with them four times in 18 months.
00:23:12.000 Do you know that there are 2,500 manufacturing facilities owned by Big Pharma that have not been inspected in five or more years?
00:23:23.000 Five or more years.
00:23:25.000 Furthermore, they've outsourced their manufacturing to third-world countries in rural areas.
00:23:31.000 And those products, when they come into the United States, do not go under FDA inspection.
00:23:36.000 There is no validity testing like we do.
00:23:39.000 There's no sterility testing.
00:23:41.000 There's none of that.
00:23:42.000 And so why are GLP-1s on backorder?
00:23:46.000 You want to know why?
00:23:47.000 Sure.
00:23:48.000 Because Eli Lilly specifically, with its product, got one of their facilities shut down because they failed FDA inspection with egregious actions.
00:23:58.000 We saw just a few weeks ago, eye drops that are from FDA approved sources got recalled.
00:24:06.000 And when a whistleblower blew the whistle, they go in and there's people in their isosterole rooms barefoot.
00:24:13.000 Like, the level of egregiousness and manipulation is insane.
00:24:18.000 But when you control the media and you have the ear of the government and you can move chess pieces, it makes it hard to, you know, be able to navigate that, compete with that, and educate people.
00:24:29.000 And so, if you didn't give me a platform, nobody would know this stuff.
00:24:34.000 If it wasn't for people like you and Robert Kennedy and people who question things and challenge the system, I can't SEO optimize.
00:24:43.000 I can't Google search engine optimize.
00:24:45.000 I can't get these messages out.
00:24:47.000 I called a PR firm to say, hey, how do we combat this and what can we do?
00:24:50.000 And they were like, the best bet you have is long form media like podcasts.
00:24:55.000 That's really the only way you're going to get it out there.
00:24:57.000 It's not going to be something picked up by the media outlets.
00:24:59.000 Because they're dirty too.
00:25:01.000 Well, a lot of their advertising and funding comes from Big Pharma, and so it makes it tough.
00:25:08.000 Well, we found that out during the pandemic.
00:25:10.000 But what's fascinating is it's had a terrible effect on their bottom line.
00:25:15.000 Because people watch them shill for these pharmaceutical drug companies and not report adverse events and not report the dangers of shutting down schools and all the harm that it's doing to children, all the harm that it's doing to business, because they didn't report on that.
00:25:31.000 People lost faith in them.
00:25:33.000 Like, radically.
00:25:35.000 CNN showed recently its lowest rating since 1991. Well, look at what they did with you with the vaccines.
00:25:43.000 And I don't know if you saw now, two different articles in the last 60 days, probably.
00:25:49.000 One is that people who have been vaccinated multiple times over, I think, the age of 60 are at an increased risk of being hospitalized with COVID was one of the articles.
00:25:59.000 And then the other article was that two of the heads of the FDA that approved the vaccines now went to go work for Moderna.
00:26:09.000 In the last 40 years, okay, the last 40 years of the FDA, two heads of the FDA have not gone to work for industry.
00:26:18.000 Only two.
00:26:20.000 That's nuts!
00:26:21.000 That's insanity.
00:26:22.000 And that's the same thing that was happening at the DOJ, and that's why I wanted to bring up the DOJ as well, even though they have nothing to do with the peptides, they are part of the healthcare industrial complex, inadvertently, because they're being used as an attack dog By the big insurance companies. 0.99
00:26:41.000 And all it takes is one orthopedic surgeon getting indicted for something or one general surgeon getting indicted for something for everyone to go, fuck that. 0.98
00:26:49.000 I'm done. 0.99
00:26:50.000 I'm not doing that test.
00:26:51.000 I'm not doing a genetic test.
00:26:52.000 No way.
00:26:54.000 And now insurance doesn't even cover any of those tests.
00:26:57.000 And so they're going to force anything out of the marketplace with time, but in the short term, they're going to run their offense.
00:27:03.000 And that same level of spit that's being swapped at the FDA is being swapped at the DOJ. So the big insurance companies attempt to recruit away DOJ prosecutors, and once they've built their reputation in working as a steward for the people at the Department of Justice,
00:27:21.000 and they put some big hides on the wall and big I don't think the average clinician in America even understands.
00:27:41.000 When you have an insurance special investigative unit show up at your practice, which happens, so if you run a lot of blood tests, or you do a lot of genetic tests, or you do anything that the insurance company thinks, man, this guy's doing these tests.
00:27:54.000 I don't want him doing these tests anymore.
00:27:56.000 We're good to go.
00:28:15.000 It's not me saying the DOJ is bad or the FDA is bad.
00:28:18.000 I'm saying when they're given bad information, just like AI, information in, information out.
00:28:25.000 Why would they be upset at people running tests?
00:28:30.000 Well, this gets super complicated.
00:28:32.000 We talked about this on the last podcast.
00:28:33.000 So there's laws, rules, and regs.
00:28:36.000 And the state and federal laws say that physicians are allowed to have an investment in an entity.
00:28:43.000 So a lot of people don't know that.
00:28:45.000 Like, when you go to a surgery center, there's a good chance that that surgeon owns into that surgery center.
00:28:51.000 Okay, if you go to, if you have a clinician, like somebody from the mothership, they couldn't get, they could not get their GLP-1 semaglutide.
00:29:03.000 So they reached out to me and said, hey, can you get my dad semaglutide?
00:29:07.000 And I'm like, yeah, we make it at the pharmacy.
00:29:09.000 The doctor wouldn't send to our pharmacy.
00:29:11.000 And it's most likely because he had a relationship with another pharmacy, right?
00:29:15.000 And so that physician may have been invested in that pharmacy.
00:29:19.000 And as crazy as that sounds, the law says they can.
00:29:24.000 As long as you don't pay them on the value or volume of their referral, they're allowed to have a passive interest.
00:29:29.000 So think of it as you're investing in a stock, right?
00:29:32.000 If I work at Abbott, I mean, if I'm a doctor and I prescribe a drug from Pfizer, I'm still allowed to invest in Pfizer stock.
00:29:39.000 What I'm not allowed to do is receive direct remuneration In accordance with the value or volume of my referral.
00:29:47.000 It cannot be an arrangement where you say, I'm going to give you $100 per patient.
00:29:52.000 Right?
00:29:52.000 That's a kickback.
00:29:53.000 That's illegal.
00:29:54.000 That's a violation of federal and state law.
00:29:57.000 However, if there is a bona fide investment opportunity and 100 clinicians buy into a hospital and then they operate at that hospital, the law says they're allowed to own into that hospital and own up to 40% of that hospital.
00:30:12.000 And so, Again, and two, I always like to give both sides of the story, and I said this on the last podcast.
00:30:18.000 There are bad people doing bad things throughout every aspect of this.
00:30:24.000 It's not insurance companies are all bad and clinicians are all good and lab owners are all good.
00:30:31.000 There is egregious stuff happening at all levels.
00:30:35.000 And there are indictments that the Department of Justice bring forth that are 100% justified.
00:30:41.000 No arguments there.
00:30:43.000 But oftentimes, the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater.
00:30:47.000 And oftentimes, the insurance companies are able to skew facts in a way that put innocent people in bad positions.
00:30:56.000 And that's all I'm trying to say.
00:30:58.000 And so, it's so deep and runs so deep.
00:31:04.000 It'd take us seven podcasts to cover all this stuff.
00:31:07.000 But, I mean, it's real.
00:31:09.000 It's not foo-foo stuff.
00:31:10.000 It's real.
00:31:11.000 It's happening every day.
00:31:12.000 And most people have zero idea this is happening.
00:31:15.000 Most people just look at the recommendations, whatever it is, whether it's been discussed in the media, whether their doctor tells them, and they don't have any idea what the influence behind that is.
00:31:24.000 Correct.
00:31:25.000 Correct.
00:31:26.000 It's tough.
00:31:27.000 I mean, it's tough.
00:31:28.000 It's nuts.
00:31:29.000 But the side effect profile's safe on the peptides.
00:31:33.000 Like, there's the efficacy, like, time and time again.
00:31:36.000 I cannot tell you how many people, how many patients and clinicians who buy BPC for their patients throughout the United States have had phenomenal results with the healing factors.
00:31:47.000 And I attach some links on the Waste Well website about BPC and studies done with healing spine injuries, with healing joint injuries, and And there's even a study on safety, and it wasn't in humans, but the safety study was in mammals, dogs,
00:32:02.000 and mice.
00:32:03.000 And yeah, it literally talks about how there was zero side effects seen, irregardless of dosage.
00:32:12.000 So this study is gastric peptide.
00:32:16.000 That's just BPC. That's the full name of BPC. How do you say it?
00:32:22.000 Pentadecapeptide.
00:32:23.000 Pentadecapeptide body protection compound BPC-157 and its role in accelerating musculoskeletal soft tissue healing.
00:32:32.000 Yeah, it works, man.
00:32:34.000 It really does work.
00:32:34.000 It's insane how well it works.
00:32:36.000 Yeah, it works.
00:32:36.000 And so what's sad is, and here, and then, so as we talk about, there's just so much to cover.
00:32:41.000 Sorry, I did this last time, too.
00:32:43.000 No, no, don't apologize.
00:32:43.000 But as we look at it, um...
00:32:45.000 Go wild.
00:32:46.000 As we look at it and we say, okay, what's going to happen?
00:32:51.000 So one of two things.
00:32:52.000 Either the FDA will hopefully meet with compounding pharmacies and have the discussion and we can dive a little deeper and hopefully bring them to the light and bring awareness to this.
00:33:04.000 Or they ban these things and what's going to happen is exactly what happened with the opioid pandemic.
00:33:10.000 People are going to turn to black market.
00:33:13.000 We had more opioid related deaths last year than ever in the history of the United States.
00:33:18.000 More people have now died of opioids than the Vietnam War.
00:33:22.000 It is killing young Americans left and right.
00:33:24.000 It's because you allowed Purdue Pharma to push a product into the market that never had safety trials as far as addiction goes.
00:33:34.000 They piggybacked onto a previous indication of their cotton system.
00:33:39.000 We're good to go.
00:33:41.000 We're good to go.
00:33:59.000 That means that there is no oversight.
00:34:01.000 They do not go through all the protocols and procedures that we go through at our pharmacy.
00:34:06.000 Like all of the safety nets, all of the checks and balances, all the things that I just went through about how we do it are gone.
00:34:14.000 And so now, yeah, you do risk adverse events.
00:34:17.000 You do risk issues because who knows what contaminants in that.
00:34:21.000 Right.
00:34:21.000 Especially if you're getting it from some country and they're cutting corners and they're just selling you whatever they can.
00:34:26.000 And so the fallacy though, the biggest fallacy is that if it comes from a big pharmaceutical company and it's in the American market, that it's safe.
00:34:37.000 Because time and time again, they've misrepresented the safety, they've misrepresented the efficacy, and then you go beyond that, they've also misrepresented their compliance and regulatory and their quality controls.
00:34:52.000 Where I was going earlier is they've outsourced 30% of their manufacturing to outside of the United States to third world countries where it's cheaper to manufacture.
00:35:03.000 In fact, a lot of them are manufacturing in rural areas of India where sometimes there's no running water at the hotels.
00:35:11.000 So if I'm an FDA inspector and I can choose to go down the street and inspect a compounding pharmacy in Austin, Texas, Or I've got to get on a plane and fly to a rural part of India and now I have to give you three months heads up before I come,
00:35:27.000 right?
00:35:27.000 When the FDA shows up at my building, they show up and they say, we're coming in and you're going to let us look at everything you're doing and we're going to follow your employees around for the next three weeks and we're going to see if anything they've done is incorrect.
00:35:40.000 That's the level of scrutiny we face.
00:35:42.000 The level of scrutiny Big Pharma faces is we moved our facilities overseas.
00:35:47.000 You got to give us a three months notice to go into those facilities.
00:35:50.000 And then when you get into those facilities, yeah, there's a book called Bottle of Lies.
00:35:55.000 It's an investigative journalist.
00:35:57.000 I mean, and it'll blow your mind.
00:36:00.000 Like when the FDA showed up, they were burning records.
00:36:03.000 That's with three months notice.
00:36:05.000 They were burning records.
00:36:06.000 They made up their efficacy data.
00:36:09.000 The data was all falsified over and over and over again.
00:36:13.000 These things have happened.
00:36:15.000 I don't remember the author's name, but the book is called Bottle of Lies, and she dives deep into that. 0.99
00:36:20.000 She was an investigative journalist.
00:36:22.000 Jesus Christ.
00:36:24.000 So when they're putting these things on the dangerous list, things like BPC-157, is the idea that they're going to come up with their own version of BPC-157 or something similar to it and patent it because they know the demand is there?
00:36:41.000 That is my assumption, is that that's what Big Pharma is attempting to do, because I don't understand otherwise why the FDA all of a sudden would have made this choice.
00:36:52.000 It blindsided everyone, compounding pharmacies, clinicians.
00:36:54.000 Nobody saw this coming, because there weren't a bunch of adverse events.
00:36:57.000 Literally, the only adverse events I've seen with anything on that ban list, and we've treated, I don't even know how many...
00:37:05.000 Ways2Well has 30,000 patients in our patient population.
00:37:08.000 My pharmacy, the last I saw was over 500,000 people have filled prescriptions.
00:37:13.000 We're nationwide.
00:37:14.000 We're working with some of the biggest telemedicine companies in the country, clinicians throughout the country.
00:37:21.000 We're one of the bigger pharmacies providing these solutions for these practices.
00:37:26.000 And the only adverse events we've seen is like an injection site inflammation response, an inflammatory response at the injection site.
00:37:33.000 Sometimes it'll itch.
00:37:34.000 The worst is somebody's gotten cold sweats for a few minutes, and that's rare.
00:37:39.000 Those are rare, rare reportants.
00:37:42.000 Again, because you look at it, it occurs naturally in nature.
00:37:46.000 It's a peptide.
00:37:47.000 It's an amino acid.
00:37:49.000 It is a building block of life that your body becomes deficient in as you age.
00:37:55.000 Our body becomes less and less efficient.
00:37:57.000 And so these peptides are a way to supplement.
00:38:00.000 My buddy Ryan Humiston did a video on it.
00:38:03.000 He's like a big YouTuber.
00:38:04.000 And he called it Flintstone vitamins for grown-ups.
00:38:07.000 And it's like...
00:38:08.000 It is.
00:38:09.000 This is...
00:38:10.000 The reason like...
00:38:12.000 The reason that supplements aren't regulated by the FDA is because Ronald Reagan said, I don't want the FDA telling me what vitamins I can and can't take.
00:38:20.000 But because this is an injectable and it's sterile for the most part, and there are pill forms too, but the FDA says, well, if it's an injectable, it's sterile, and it's made at a compounding pharmacy, then we have oversight.
00:38:32.000 But I want to be clear, they didn't ban it.
00:38:34.000 They just put it on a dangerous list.
00:38:36.000 And this is one of the things that makes it difficult to navigate as an entrepreneur is you go, well, what are we supposed to do with that?
00:38:43.000 Does that mean we're not allowed to make it?
00:38:45.000 Does that mean we are allowed to make it?
00:38:46.000 You're saying it's dangerous, but we're not having side effects and we're having great efficacious results.
00:38:52.000 It just makes it tough.
00:38:54.000 Insane that they can put something on a dangerous list with no evidence.
00:38:58.000 Yeah.
00:38:59.000 I know.
00:39:00.000 That's wild.
00:39:01.000 I know.
00:39:02.000 I mean, it just seems like clear-cut corruption.
00:39:04.000 Yeah.
00:39:05.000 And because of the power of the insurance companies and the power of the pharmaceutical drug companies...
00:39:10.000 Well, and then where I get frustrated is, I've been to Oz, Joe. 0.99
00:39:13.000 I've been behind the fucking curtain. 0.99
00:39:15.000 I know. 0.99
00:39:16.000 I was a device rep.
00:39:17.000 I was a drug rep.
00:39:19.000 I stood in surgeries from dusk till dawn, watching products that have never had human safety trials go into the body, time and time again.
00:39:28.000 When people think that going into an orthopedic surgery or going into a general surgery or going into an OBGYN surgery, you make the assumption that all these products have been through human safety studies and all this stuff.
00:39:40.000 And I talked about this on our last podcast too, but...
00:39:43.000 Over 90% of the products that are in the operating room never went through human safety studies.
00:39:50.000 The FDA created what's called the 510K approval process in the 70s.
00:39:56.000 They said, it's growing too fast.
00:39:58.000 We're bogged down. 1.00
00:39:59.000 We can't get to all this shit. 1.00
00:40:01.000 Now you're bolting on all these extra products in addition to drugs. 1.00
00:40:05.000 And now we're talking biologics.
00:40:07.000 And let's not even get into AI and large language models.
00:40:10.000 You know, to their credit...
00:40:11.000 They're doing their best to navigate a really tough space with a lot of different stuff coming at them.
00:40:16.000 And so they created a loophole.
00:40:18.000 And the premise was less than 10% of the products would come through this channel to get into the operating room.
00:40:25.000 Jump forward to today and 92% of the products in the operating room came in through the 510k approval process.
00:40:33.000 And what is that process?
00:40:34.000 What it says is if you can show something Like kind is already in the operating room, then you can do what's called a daisy chain.
00:40:45.000 So imagine iPhone 1 versus the new iPhone, right?
00:40:50.000 That's what we're talking about here.
00:40:51.000 Imagine Henry Ford's car versus Elon Musk's Cybertruck.
00:40:57.000 That's the difference and it's moving at a breakneck speed and It's shocking that there's not more adverse events, but we also know that less than 2% of adverse events get reported.
00:41:11.000 And so, I can give you a real-world example on that, too, when I was a rep.
00:41:18.000 We're good to go.
00:41:41.000 As the technology changed and the shaver handpieces got smaller and smaller, a lot of these companies didn't update their packaging inserts.
00:41:49.000 And so they didn't update their sterile processing procedures.
00:41:52.000 And so what happened is tissue began to gunk up in handpieces.
00:41:56.000 And this was not unique to one company.
00:41:58.000 I'm not going to say the company's names and I'm not going to name the hospitals.
00:42:02.000 But there's...
00:42:03.000 There's a company that took the fall for it, but in reality, I was the rep.
00:42:08.000 And I went in and helped that hospital figure out what was going on.
00:42:12.000 And I took a camera and I scoped every cannulated piece of equipment that I could find.
00:42:18.000 All of it had tissue in it.
00:42:20.000 We've gunked up tissue from previous surgeries in that.
00:42:24.000 And so when you take this product from one surgery to the next surgery to the next surgery, we know that certain bacterias are extremophiles.
00:42:32.000 They can handle, so they auto-quave it.
00:42:35.000 And all that is is to purify it.
00:42:37.000 It's called clean dirt, right?
00:42:38.000 The debate at the time was, is there such thing as clean dirt?
00:42:41.000 If we run it through a sterile processing machine and we cook it at thousands and thousands of degrees, nothing can survive that, right?
00:42:49.000 No, bacteria's an extremophile. 0.92
00:42:51.000 It can fucking make it from outer space on a meteorite and crash onto Earth, you know? 0.94
00:42:57.000 Like, these are some of the most resilient life forms in the history of existence. 0.98
00:43:03.000 Well, prions, the things that cause mad cow disease, you could cook them at thousands of degrees and they stay alive.
00:43:08.000 Well, and this is where it gets even scarier.
00:43:10.000 So, whether we're talking about...
00:43:13.000 Like with stem cells, one of the big things that's happened is when they throw out adverse events, even with the stem cells or biologics products, almost all of those adverse events have nothing to do with the product and everything to do with the chain of command.
00:43:30.000 So, look at how rigorous the chain of command is on me as a compounding pharmacy.
00:43:36.000 I told you, step by step by step, check, balance, check, balance, check, balance.
00:43:41.000 None of that exists.
00:43:43.000 In big medical.
00:43:45.000 None of it.
00:43:45.000 I was a device rep with shavers, pumps, equipment, implants in my trunk of my car in 110 degree weather.
00:43:54.000 It wasn't just me.
00:43:56.000 Every rep carries product called trunk stock.
00:43:58.000 Drug reps carry product called trunk stock.
00:44:01.000 They put drugs in the trunk of their car and drive around and give them to clinicians to use for samples.
00:44:07.000 But those products aren't being climate controlled in the way they're supposed to be.
00:44:11.000 There's no chain of command.
00:44:12.000 There's no chain of custody.
00:44:15.000 They're not following any of those protocols.
00:44:17.000 And even the storage facilities that almost all of these implant companies are using and device companies, they're not paying for climate controlled storage typically.
00:44:27.000 They're sticking them in a storage shed and then a month later that products going into surgery.
00:44:33.000 And so I'll give you another craze.
00:44:34.000 And I'm saying all this not to bash one company or bash anybody in particular.
00:44:38.000 It's just the truth, Joe. 0.99
00:44:40.000 It's the fucking truth. 1.00
00:44:42.000 And when the FDA says we're worried about safety on a peptide that's a naturally occurring amino acid, I call bullshit. 0.99
00:44:49.000 Because I go, then where were you when all this other stuff was happening? 0.80
00:44:53.000 I was in a surgery at the Houston Zoo where I watched a shaver handpiece being used on a tiger.
00:44:59.000 And it had green tape wrapped around it.
00:45:01.000 And I thought, oh, that's interesting.
00:45:03.000 It had green tape.
00:45:04.000 Jump forward two months later.
00:45:05.000 I'm in a human surgery.
00:45:07.000 And I see a shaver handpiece with green tape.
00:45:10.000 And I thought, man, that's wild.
00:45:13.000 It can't be.
00:45:14.000 So I checked the serial number. 0.98
00:45:16.000 Same damn serial number that was in that tiger surgery. 0.98
00:45:21.000 Same serial number. 0.98
00:45:22.000 At the time, what was happening is if a loaner went out, it would go out to an animal surgery, veterinary clinic.
00:45:29.000 There's no way to differentiate, right?
00:45:31.000 So a count number is an account number, right?
00:45:33.000 And so they ship out a loaner and they would use that and then they'd ship it back.
00:45:38.000 But okay, but they're going to process it, clean it, sterilize it.
00:45:41.000 You never should be doing that in the first place.
00:45:43.000 But I've already told you now...
00:45:46.000 The packaging inserts don't explain properly how to clean out these instruments.
00:45:51.000 And it's not one company.
00:45:52.000 It's not one product.
00:45:53.000 It's thousands of products.
00:45:55.000 So a human patient could have been potentially contaminated with bacteria from a tiger.
00:46:01.000 100%.
00:46:02.000 100%.
00:46:04.000 You never...
00:46:06.000 And so I just say this because when they're throwing stones or people are like...
00:46:13.000 Peptides are dangerous or stem cells are dangerous.
00:46:16.000 This is nature and the rules and the regs and the restrictions and the safety nets and the protocols and the chain of custody and the hoops that we jump through.
00:46:26.000 Let's go to the cellular options.
00:46:28.000 Whether we get a biologic, whether cellular or acellular.
00:46:32.000 When it ships out, they say what time it shipped.
00:46:34.000 It ships on dry ice, stored at frigid temperatures.
00:46:39.000 When it arrives, we have to sign for it, and then we immediately unbox it and load it into a cryo-freezer and document each lot number, what time we put it in the freezer, and within 30 days, if we don't use that product, we discard it.
00:46:53.000 Even though there's nothing that says it's not viable or it's not going to be as good, that's the protocol.
00:46:59.000 Because we're going to go above and beyond and follow the most rigid safety protocols.
00:47:04.000 And that does not happen in traditional medicine.
00:47:07.000 The average American is assuming that if they go into surgery, that's safe.
00:47:12.000 But these stem cells, man, who knows about that?
00:47:15.000 That could be dangerous.
00:47:17.000 And the truth is, everything's risk-reward.
00:47:20.000 It's all risk-reward.
00:47:23.000 Jesus Christ.
00:47:25.000 It's just so gunked up. 0.95
00:47:28.000 It's just so corrupt that it feels helpless when you're discussing this.
00:47:33.000 There's this feeling that the more you dive into this and the more you describe things, the deeper you expose the corruption, the more it's so confusing because it doesn't seem like there's a way out.
00:47:44.000 Well, and you asked me last time, you were trying to ask me to articulate how I started Ways Dwell, how I started Revive. 0.72
00:47:51.000 And we spent three fucking hours going through all this. 0.85
00:47:53.000 The truth of the matter is, I saw a problem. 0.99
00:47:56.000 I tried to come up with a solution.
00:47:58.000 And that's all I've been doing over and over again.
00:48:01.000 Problem.
00:48:02.000 There's an opioid epidemic.
00:48:04.000 It killed my brother.
00:48:06.000 Solution.
00:48:06.000 Non-addictive, non-abusive treatment modalities to heal and help with pain.
00:48:13.000 So I start a pharmacy.
00:48:15.000 Insurance says, nah, we're not going to cover it.
00:48:17.000 We'll just put them on an opioid.
00:48:19.000 Okay.
00:48:20.000 Problem.
00:48:21.000 Now I have to figure out how to make these products cost-effective enough to be able to sell them to the average American, the average Joe, you know, not the affluent.
00:48:30.000 Everybody needs to be able to afford these treatments.
00:48:33.000 So I built a 503A sterile pharmacy and we began to make products that were in the gaps.
00:48:40.000 Anything I saw that insurance didn't cover, wouldn't cover, was egregiously price gouging patients on is what we would make at our compounding pharmacy.
00:48:50.000 And so then we start ways to well.
00:48:53.000 Can you give me examples of those products?
00:48:55.000 Like what products?
00:48:56.000 Yeah.
00:48:56.000 So, I mean, any, well, peptides fall into that chain.
00:48:59.000 You know, Big Pharma wasn't making peptides.
00:49:02.000 But now that the market took off on peptides, Big Pharma is trying to cannibalize peptides and get into that space more and more.
00:49:08.000 Like I said, Merck's looking at over 200 peptides right now.
00:49:12.000 Testosterone therapy, right?
00:49:14.000 A lot of times when people say, hey, you know, if it worked, everyone would use it in traditional medicine.
00:49:19.000 No.
00:49:20.000 It took 75 years of dogma and confusion for testosterone to pull itself out of the doldrums of the dungeons to be utilized daily as a go-to resource for aging men. 0.96
00:49:33.000 And the only reason testosterone made it out was because one guy had the balls to test it.
00:49:39.000 No pun intended, but it was Dr. Morgan Tyler, a urologist, famous urologist, said, this was prior to Viagra, he said, I've got to do something for these guys who have erectile dysfunction. 0.95
00:49:50.000 I don't have an option.
00:49:51.000 And he began using testosterone.
00:49:53.000 And then his colleague said, well, hold on a second.
00:49:55.000 That's going to cause prostate cancer.
00:49:57.000 And then...
00:49:59.000 He began to analyze his patient population and see that it wasn't increasing prostate cancer in his patient population. 0.99
00:50:05.000 So then he went back and did a retrospective study all the way back to the 1930s where we found out that the original study that created that dogma that maintained its status for over 75 fucking years was total bullshit. 0.97
00:50:18.000 It was a patient population of three. 0.91
00:50:20.000 Two guys dropped out of the study.
00:50:22.000 One guy had levels that went up and down on his prostate levels.
00:50:27.000 And it was all debunked.
00:50:29.000 And now it's proven time and time again, if testosterone was increasing prostate cancer, we would have seen a huge spike in prostate cancer.
00:50:36.000 What we're seeing is about 14% of men develop prostate cancer.
00:50:39.000 And so as we walk through...
00:50:41.000 What do they think the reason for that is?
00:50:43.000 For what?
00:50:44.000 Why do 14% of men develop prostate cancer?
00:50:47.000 Well, 14% of men in general patient population develop prostate cancer.
00:50:50.000 Thank you for clarifying that.
00:50:52.000 Not population.
00:50:54.000 Correct.
00:50:55.000 And so the thought was if we increase certain levels that we would Increase the risk of prostate cancer.
00:51:04.000 And so the challenge becomes, if you really go back and you look at the study, the guy who stayed in the study was chemically castrated.
00:51:10.000 He had a testosterone level of 50 nanograms per deciliter, which is considered chemically castrated.
00:51:16.000 So non-existent.
00:51:18.000 What Morgan Tyler discovered was when we take you from 50, chemically castrated, to low, 250, We increase your risk of prostate cancer because your prostate cancer risk at zero testosterone is basically zero,
00:51:34.000 right?
00:51:35.000 But once we push past 250, the low number, we now reduce your risk of prostate cancer.
00:51:41.000 In fact, we insulate you from various forms of cancer beyond prostate cancer.
00:51:46.000 So there's a therapeutic benefit if we get you into optimal ranges.
00:51:51.000 And it's called the saturation model.
00:51:53.000 So think of it like this.
00:51:54.000 You can only water a plant so much, right?
00:51:57.000 Once that plant has water, it's not gonna absorb any more water.
00:52:01.000 The prostate can only, the testosterone can only bind to a certain amount of receptors.
00:52:06.000 Once those receptors are binded, then there's no continual upside risk.
00:52:11.000 And then you get to get the benefits of testosterone that begin to reduce those risks of cancer.
00:52:16.000 But today, in primary care, you will still have doctors Who quote a study that's been debunked a hundred times.
00:52:26.000 And there's this dogma that exists over and over again in healthcare where it's like the data's there, the research is there, the info's there, but the system itself isn't allowing for it.
00:52:39.000 And so when we look at that, I talked about this on the last, when we talk about insurance companies and pharmacy benefit managers, Every drug on the market that is covered by insurance is controlled by a pharmacy benefit manager.
00:52:54.000 And those pharmacy benefit managers prioritize drugs and their classifications not based off efficacy, based off profits.
00:53:04.000 And so they are monetizing those drugs through rebates with the big insurance companies.
00:53:10.000 So insulin is a prime example.
00:53:13.000 The Senate House Committee did a study on insulin where they found the price of insulin was $284 a vial.
00:53:24.000 Do you know how much made it back to the pharmaceutical company that was making that insulin?
00:53:29.000 Less than $40.
00:53:31.000 Where the hell did all that extra money go?
00:53:33.000 It went to the pharmacy benefit managers and the insurance companies through rebates.
00:53:41.000 And so, this is the whole other area of healthcare that people aren't understanding, and I tried to explain it on the last podcast.
00:53:48.000 I know we dove deep into it, but it is a crucial component for people to get their head around what's happening.
00:53:54.000 So, insurance companies, so many people say, well, I have health insurance, right? 0.99
00:54:00.000 That drug isn't covered by my health insurance, so it must be bullshit. 0.99
00:54:04.000 Or that test isn't covered by my health insurance, so it must be bullshit. 1.00
00:54:09.000 No, you don't have health insurance. 0.99
00:54:11.000 What you have is managed care plan.
00:54:14.000 They've renamed these plans.
00:54:16.000 It isn't health insurance.
00:54:18.000 It's a managed care plan.
00:54:19.000 And what do I mean by that?
00:54:20.000 They're managing your medications, your treatment options, and they're monetizing your disease state.
00:54:27.000 They make money on every step of the way.
00:54:32.000 And since the last time we spoke, a new one came out, Ohio, the state of Ohio, they realized that over 200 pharmacies had gone out of business.
00:54:42.000 The pharmacies were saying we're getting paid less and less, but yet the government was paying more and more.
00:54:49.000 Why?
00:54:50.000 How?
00:54:50.000 Where was that money coming from?
00:54:52.000 Where was it going?
00:54:53.000 They used, I think, I can't remember, 30-something auditors at the state level, and what they found was $240 million in pharmacy benefit manager fraud.
00:55:07.000 $240 million!
00:55:10.000 And money that they extrapolated from the American people, from the people of the state of Ohio, because taxpayer dollars are who's paying for this stuff.
00:55:17.000 And these pharmacy benefit managers are making their money on the spread.
00:55:22.000 So there's layer upon layer upon layer of how insurance companies can move dollars to maximize profits.
00:55:28.000 Jesus Christ.
00:55:30.000 Does that make sense at all?
00:55:32.000 It makes sense, but it's just like the more you talk, the more disheartening it is.
00:55:35.000 Well, I mean, there's two different views on it, right?
00:55:38.000 There's...
00:55:41.000 Optimists are usually successful and pessimists are usually right.
00:55:45.000 I am very optimistic about the future of medicine.
00:55:47.000 I'm very optimistic through large language models, cash pay model.
00:55:51.000 I didn't want to get into that without first setting the tone for the listeners on how we're here.
00:55:57.000 Why did we go to cash pay?
00:55:59.000 Why is Ways to Well not in the insurance model?
00:56:02.000 Why is Revive not in the insurance model?
00:56:04.000 Because the insurance model no longer exists.
00:56:08.000 That model is meant to monetize your disease.
00:56:11.000 Right?
00:56:12.000 So Gary talked about this.
00:56:14.000 You come in.
00:56:15.000 Let's say I come in and I'm gonna give you a perfect example.
00:56:18.000 I'm a mom.
00:56:19.000 I'm stressed.
00:56:20.000 I have anxiety.
00:56:20.000 I'm not sleeping at night.
00:56:22.000 I go to my primary care.
00:56:24.000 That primary care has six minutes with me.
00:56:26.000 It's not their fault. 1.00
00:56:27.000 They're doing their best to navigate a shit system. 1.00
00:56:30.000 They write me an Ambien and an antidepressant or an anti-anxiety and they push me out the door. 1.00
00:56:36.000 And that's their go-to treatment because that's the tool in their tool belt.
00:56:42.000 The difference is, if somebody were to come in the door of Ways to Well, or any of these cash pay clinics, I don't even want to make it about Ways to Well, there are hundreds of phenomenal clinics across the country.
00:56:51.000 Peter Attia is a prime example.
00:56:53.000 He's going to take the time to ask the question, to do the deep dive, to peel back the layers to the onion.
00:57:00.000 Rather than treating the symptom, you're going to uncover the root cause.
00:57:04.000 And so, what did you do to assess that individual, right?
00:57:08.000 If it was us, we would do a comprehensive blood panel.
00:57:11.000 We would identify, is there a hormonal imbalance or any sort of imbalance in their biomarkers?
00:57:17.000 Not going to happen in the insurance model because of what I was telling you.
00:57:21.000 The doctors are scared.
00:57:23.000 They're scared of getting kicked off the insurance.
00:57:25.000 They're scared of ending up on a DOJ desk because the data's being skewed, the info's being skewed, all of it.
00:57:31.000 It's one half of the narrative.
00:57:34.000 So that's one reason they won't do it.
00:57:35.000 So that's the biomarker test.
00:57:37.000 Let's look at the other thing we would do.
00:57:39.000 We would run an EEG to assess if you have insomnia, anxiety, depression, all of these things.
00:57:47.000 Another way to dig into the root cause separate from biomarkers is an EEG. To run a brainwave test that tells us, is your brain neurons firing at the posterior of your brain to the prefrontal cortex of your brain?
00:58:00.000 And if you're losing data from the posterior to the prefrontal cortex, what you find is people with depression, with anxiety, with all these things, they're losing 40 to 50% of that neuropathic firing from the rear of their brain to the front of their brain.
00:58:16.000 And this is a simple $200 test.
00:58:18.000 Okay?
00:58:19.000 Then you go to what Gary brought up.
00:58:20.000 You can do a methylfolate detoxification test. 0.99
00:58:25.000 MTFHR, the motherfucker test, is what they call it. 0.98
00:58:27.000 And it's a gene carrier test. 0.98
00:58:29.000 40% of people in America suffer from that gene, right?
00:58:32.000 There's four other genes that are part of that test that we do.
00:58:35.000 Any one of those genes can change the way your body processes and detoxifies.
00:58:41.000 They're never going to do that.
00:58:42.000 That isn't covered by insurance.
00:58:44.000 You could do a pharmacogenetic test to see if that individual is even capable of metabolizing the treatment that you're writing them.
00:58:53.000 Do they have a cytochrome P450 variant?
00:58:55.000 Will this even work?
00:58:57.000 How are they processing their food?
00:58:58.000 We can do a gut biome test.
00:59:01.000 We can identify, do you have a food allergy?
00:59:03.000 Is your gut biome in good working order?
00:59:05.000 Not covered by insurance.
00:59:06.000 Do you get where I'm going?
00:59:08.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:59:08.000 There's seven or eight things we should be doing before we ever write you a fucking drug. 1.00
00:59:14.000 For sure, seven or eight easy things, and you're not talking about a million dollars. 0.98
00:59:19.000 Like, I bet all of those tests combined come out to less than a thousand bucks.
00:59:23.000 And I know that's a lot, but...
00:59:27.000 How much do you spend on your car payment?
00:59:29.000 How much do you spend on your house?
00:59:31.000 You're spending a portion of your life in that.
00:59:34.000 You're spending 100% of this existence in this flesh vessel, and you only get one of them.
00:59:39.000 What are you going to do with it? 1.00
00:59:41.000 Are you going to put your life in the hands of these fucking assholes that are here to extrapolate money from you and manage you into chronic disease? 1.00
00:59:50.000 And I'm not saying the doctors are. 1.00
00:59:51.000 The doctors are just using the tools that are in their tool belt.
00:59:54.000 They're using the data and the tools that are in their tool belt.
00:59:58.000 And that's all they know how to do.
01:00:00.000 And they don't have the time, and they're stressed, and they're overworked, and they're tired, and they're just trying to make it.
01:00:06.000 And they're beat down.
01:00:07.000 These people are beat down.
01:00:10.000 And how many of these doctors even know about these tests?
01:00:13.000 I think?
01:00:38.000 They're not gonna mess with it because they're just, again, trying to make it through the day.
01:00:41.000 And so those were pathways to be able to educate a clinician and give them some insight into why they should be doing these tests clinically.
01:00:51.000 But yeah, even today, if you talk about cellular therapies, if you talk about peptides, most primary care clinicians in this country have no idea about peptides. 0.98
01:01:02.000 Or they'll say it's bullshit. 0.98
01:01:03.000 Or they say they don't work. 1.00
01:01:05.000 And they'll say the same thing with cellular therapy.
01:01:08.000 You can't get stem cells in the United States.
01:01:12.000 It's just this dogma that has created a misconception.
01:01:16.000 Infrared.
01:01:16.000 That's another example.
01:01:17.000 You and I were talking about infrared beds and red light therapy. 0.97
01:01:22.000 It is viewed by a lot of the doctors in this healthcare system, and I say healthcare loosely, it's sick care, as pseudoscience, bullshit, chiropractic stuff.
01:01:39.000 But if you look, infrared and these technologies, photo light therapy has been used since 1903, 1905. The guy won a Nobel Prize.
01:01:49.000 Huberman does a two-hour breakdown on this stuff. 0.97
01:01:53.000 Infrared is not bullshit.
01:01:55.000 There are over 60 studies that show infrared works. 0.58
01:01:58.000 There was a study done in Europe that showed infrared improved vision in people over the age of 40. Like using three minutes of infrared, three days a week, returned vision and eyesight.
01:02:09.000 There's nothing that has done that.
01:02:11.000 And so infrared has done that and has helped people with degenerative eye disease, like as your eyes begin to degenerate.
01:02:19.000 And how does it do it?
01:02:20.000 We even know the science behind it.
01:02:22.000 Literally, when you're taking NAD drips and you're doing all this stuff, you're doing it to try and get your cells to produce more ATP. Because as we age, our production of ATP declines.
01:02:33.000 And ATP is the energy source of a cell.
01:02:35.000 And our eyes have a limited amount of ATP. But they require a massive amount of energy.
01:02:41.000 And so as we age and our ATP declines, our cells are incapable of...
01:02:49.000 Having the amount of energy required to maintain great eyesight.
01:02:53.000 And so through infrared, through NAD treatments, through NMN, through all of these various modalities that are not being utilized in traditional medicine, you can make a difference.
01:03:08.000 It's just crazy.
01:03:09.000 Again, same thing.
01:03:09.000 Where's the negative side effects?
01:03:12.000 And all N is a precursor to NAD. And even NAD, when I sent you that study a year ago, Mike, my mind's changed.
01:03:21.000 I'm constantly evolving.
01:03:22.000 I'm constantly learning, right? 0.99
01:03:23.000 I've listened to some people in academia that told me they thought NAD was bullshit. 0.97
01:03:28.000 And I can tell you, I have a friend who is diagnosed with MS, who's one of my best friends in the world, and he... 0.97
01:03:36.000 Is on a treatment that costs $14,000 a month from the insurance companies and wasn't getting good results.
01:03:42.000 And we started doing weekly NAD and BPC-157 and he swears.
01:03:48.000 And again, this is anecdotal.
01:03:49.000 I'm not saying that this is going to cure MS. That's not at all.
01:03:53.000 He has gotten better results and has felt better over the last eight months than he ever felt on that $14,000 a month medication.
01:04:03.000 So, it's, for them to understand it, we've got, we would have, and that's why it's like, so to move, to be able to use these treatment modalities, you almost have to go cash pay.
01:04:13.000 And then what I'm trying to figure out is, how do we bring this to the masses?
01:04:17.000 How do we bring longevity-based, predictive, proactive, personalized medicine to the masses?
01:04:25.000 How do we bring this precision approach to everybody?
01:04:28.000 And that's where I think large language models are going to change the game.
01:04:32.000 They're going to change the world.
01:04:33.000 I sent you Alan the other day, the little alien.
01:04:37.000 I don't like his voice.
01:04:38.000 Well, he's a beta, so we're working on getting him all worked out.
01:04:42.000 He looks like a beta.
01:04:43.000 See, that feedback's amazing, because when I talk about personalized...
01:04:48.000 I'm just kidding.
01:04:49.000 It's not real feedback.
01:04:50.000 But for me, this is my thought on it.
01:04:52.000 Part of being personalized goes above and beyond personalizing treatments with peptides and all these different things to personalizing the patient experience.
01:05:01.000 Some people want to call their clinician at 2 a.m.
01:05:03.000 I can't tell you how many days I wake up and somebody who went through the program messages me asking a clinical question and I've got to bug the clinician and I've got 30 of those, right?
01:05:13.000 Or the clinician gets an inbox filled with questions.
01:05:16.000 The future of medicine is large language models will manage all of that.
01:05:20.000 Alan will be able to assess your medical record.
01:05:23.000 He'll be able to read your MRI. He'll be able to read your DEXA. He'll be able to read your VO2 max.
01:05:28.000 He'll be able to assess your all-cause mortality risk.
01:05:31.000 He'll be able to tie into your wearables, tie into your REM sleep, monitor your heart rate variability.
01:05:36.000 That's proactive predictive medicine.
01:05:39.000 We're going to know what date you started testosterone, what date you started a peptide, what date we began to see improvement on all of your biomarkers.
01:05:46.000 Or if we don't see improvement, we're going to know in advance that this isn't a good medicine for you.
01:05:51.000 This isn't a good treatment for you.
01:05:53.000 And so traditional medicine is not going to do these things.
01:05:57.000 It's never going to happen.
01:05:58.000 Can you explain when you're saying large language models, you're talking about artificial intelligence.
01:06:02.000 Yeah, well, so the really smart guys like Lex would say, well, large language models are just assessing massive amounts of data and guessing the next word, right?
01:06:12.000 And so ChatGPT is a large language model.
01:06:15.000 They don't consider it AI. But isn't the speculation one of the reasons why they think Sam Altman was pushed out is that ChatGPT has acquired artificial general intelligence in the newest models?
01:06:30.000 That is what I've heard from my AI guys as well.
01:06:35.000 I was told that he has a fiduciary duty to the board to disclose if the ChatGPT makes a leap, is what they call it.
01:06:43.000 And it made a leap.
01:06:46.000 And then, I guess, they continued forward without reporting it to the board.
01:06:50.000 But again, this is all hearsay.
01:06:51.000 I don't know.
01:06:51.000 I don't have any line of sight into that, but my buddies in AI have told me that.
01:06:56.000 I'm repeatedly hearing this.
01:06:57.000 Yeah.
01:06:57.000 That was the same thing I heard.
01:06:58.000 Which is very scary.
01:06:59.000 Which is interesting, because I will say this.
01:07:00.000 The scary side is like...
01:07:02.000 When you start messing with these large language models, there are behaviors that they do that aren't programmed behaviors.
01:07:09.000 I've got a small monkey brain, I can't tell you.
01:07:13.000 It's a little odd to me, a little intimidating. 0.97
01:07:17.000 You're like, man, that's wild.
01:07:19.000 An example is with Alan, even, when I was pressing him and asking different questions and cutting him off, he hesitating.
01:07:26.000 And held his hand up.
01:07:28.000 And I'm like, that's weird.
01:07:29.000 And the AI guys were saying this is an example of like things that the large language model is kind of like improv-ing on its own that wouldn't be like a programmed behavior.
01:07:39.000 So, I mean, the future is scary and exciting, right?
01:07:43.000 And I look at that...
01:07:44.000 So your little AI gives you a finger to hold on?
01:07:46.000 Like, hold on a second.
01:07:47.000 Because I kept asking him, changing the questions on him and asking him to reword stuff.
01:07:52.000 And he's not programmed to do that?
01:07:53.000 No.
01:07:54.000 No.
01:07:55.000 And so there's interesting stuff like that.
01:07:56.000 I don't know enough about it because I'm not a tech guy.
01:07:59.000 I've come from healthcare.
01:08:02.000 But what I see is...
01:08:05.000 Like everything, Alan and these AI models are a tool in the tool belt.
01:08:09.000 And any tool can be used for good or for bad.
01:08:13.000 And so my vision for the future of AI and large language models is using that to scale and bring predictive medicine to the masses.
01:08:24.000 When I came on your podcast last time, we had thousands upon thousands of people register.
01:08:30.000 In my model, a clinician spends 45 minutes with you reviewing your lab results, deep diving into every aspect of you at the biological level, deep diving into your gut biome.
01:08:42.000 Whatever test it is we do, we're going to spend the time and we want to educate and empower patients and give them sovereignty over their health because they're used to a system where they go in, they're given a drug and they're pushed out and they leave going, why?
01:08:56.000 I don't know.
01:08:56.000 I don't really understand.
01:08:57.000 Why am I taking this?
01:08:58.000 What's wrong with me?
01:08:59.000 Right?
01:08:59.000 I don't want that for them.
01:09:00.000 I want patients to be educated and informed and make autonomous decisions that they drive, right?
01:09:08.000 And so the goal is to use large language models to give them a resource. 0.99
01:09:12.000 Imagine if I can take the best and brightest minds in medicine and put them in your fucking pocket 24-7. 0.84
01:09:18.000 Imagine if you had Huberman and Atiyah in your pocket and it's 2am and you got a question about NAD. You just ask Alan. 0.99
01:09:28.000 The large language model is going to know all that and he's going to be able to tie it to your medical records and he's going to be able to tie it to the pharmacy and know what date your prescription shipped.
01:09:37.000 And the only reason I'll be able to do that when we go back to data in, data out, right?
01:09:42.000 In our LLM model, it will be a closed infrastructure.
01:09:46.000 I'm not going to give the AI access to the internet, right?
01:09:50.000 The plan is we're going to peer review, we're going to look over anything that's loaded into that algorithm, and we're going to allow him to practice in the way that a ways to well clinician would practice and answer questions.
01:10:02.000 He won't be there to provide medical care.
01:10:04.000 He'll be there to be a medical resource.
01:10:06.000 And everything he does, or the AI does, will be monitored and approved by clinicians.
01:10:13.000 But what it does is it allows me to drive down the cost of healthcare, right?
01:10:17.000 Because today, how do I scale?
01:10:19.000 Okay, I can tell you how a lot of my competitors scale.
01:10:22.000 They hire a doctor by the hour, they outsource the clinician, and that's their way that they got into 50 states overnight.
01:10:31.000 So, so many people are like, why aren't you in 50 states?
01:10:33.000 When are you going to be in all the states?
01:10:36.000 I don't think that's healthcare.
01:10:37.000 I think you're going back to sick care.
01:10:54.000 I'm not saying that they're not a valid clinician at what they do, but it's like asking a jujitsu guy to teach you Muay Thai.
01:11:04.000 I would rather put my faith in large language models that know jujitsu, that know Muay Thai, that know MMA, that know boxing, that know all of the history of those things and those modalities, that know every single product that we offer at Ways to Well That immediately can recall your previous conversation,
01:11:21.000 what happened, these large language models.
01:11:24.000 So in the demos, he'll literally chart everything that we discuss and put it in writing and load it into an EMR. You've got to understand, when my clinicians do a 45-minute call, they've got to spend 15 minutes reviewing everything,
01:11:40.000 refreshing their memory, trying to go back over everything you talked about.
01:11:43.000 What were your issues?
01:11:44.000 Now they do the call for 45. Now they've got to annotate all that on the back end.
01:11:50.000 AI and large language models will do that in real time, instantaneously.
01:11:55.000 I can only see six patients per day per clinician in my model because I'm trying to provide them with great care.
01:12:02.000 I'm trying to bring the Peter Atiyah, the high-level care approach, but make it affordable for the average person.
01:12:09.000 And so it's been this dance of like, how do we do that?
01:12:14.000 And Large language models and AI fix all these problems.
01:12:19.000 And we are on the cusp.
01:12:20.000 It is right there.
01:12:21.000 It is so close.
01:12:23.000 I wanted to show it today, but we're not there yet.
01:12:25.000 And I need to get kinks worked out.
01:12:27.000 But I'm excited for what we're going to be able to do in the future.
01:12:31.000 Now, when you say large language models, what's the engine driving these large language models?
01:12:39.000 Like, what program are you guys running?
01:12:41.000 So, with these avatars that we're going to use, it's going to be...
01:12:46.000 Well, today, it can be backed by any large language model.
01:12:49.000 So, that's just the technology.
01:12:51.000 So, think of it as the arrow.
01:12:53.000 But the archer is the clinicians and the data and the input and the information.
01:12:59.000 That's where the magic happens.
01:13:00.000 I think there's going to be hundreds if not thousands of avatars in the marketplace within 12 months.
01:13:24.000 The problem that some people are having with these AI models is that they have biased information.
01:13:37.000 Correct.
01:13:37.000 You know, like if you ask them questions about certain things, they will not answer you or they will not, you know, mock Joe Biden or they will not praise Donald Trump, like those kind of things where you're getting political or ideological influence.
01:13:54.000 How do you keep that from happening?
01:13:56.000 I think you—so the article that I alluded to earlier, Google Has No Moat, this article was basically saying it doesn't matter what large language model you have because it's only going to act in accordance with the data.
01:14:11.000 And if every large language model has the same accessibility to the same data— Then how are you going to differentiate your large language model?
01:14:20.000 Right?
01:14:20.000 And if everyone puts the same restrictions and requirements on these large language models, how will it differentiate?
01:14:27.000 Where I'm going with this is ours would be a closed infrastructure.
01:14:31.000 It wouldn't reach out to the internet to get an answer.
01:14:33.000 Any data that we put into our large language model will be approved and peer reviewed by our team of clinicians.
01:14:40.000 So today, I have brilliant people on my team.
01:14:43.000 I have Dr. Grant, a board-certified urologist.
01:14:46.000 I have Dustin Loveland, an orthopedic surgeon trained under Jimmy Andrews, one of the godfathers of orthopedic surgery.
01:14:53.000 I have Ian White, PhD from the Ansari Stem Cell Institute, 22 years at the bench.
01:15:00.000 And I'm reaching out to thought leaders in their field and in academia throughout the country and saying, hey, do you want to help me do something cool?
01:15:09.000 Do you want to come change the game?
01:15:10.000 We're here.
01:15:11.000 Let's do it.
01:15:13.000 Let's get proactive and predictive and let's help people drive their health journey.
01:15:17.000 Let's give them this resource.
01:15:19.000 And so this tool wouldn't be...
01:15:23.000 To talk about politics or to crack jokes with your friend, our tool would be used to assess large amounts of data, which is what this thing is phenomenal at.
01:15:31.000 It's going to, like I said before, tie into your electronic medical records, review your last consult, be able to read your blood report because it's all analytics driven.
01:15:42.000 Everything is algorithm driven.
01:15:44.000 And so almost all the reports and all of the decision trees that primary care clinicians and even a ways to well clinician makes Are essentially algorithms.
01:15:55.000 And the more data we can give the large language model, the better decisions it can make.
01:16:02.000 And so I'm envisioning there's a day where large language models potentially, you know, take over a lot of the heavy lifting that primary cares and internal medicine doctors do today.
01:16:18.000 It's very promising.
01:16:20.000 That gives me hope.
01:16:21.000 Well, that's why I think there's an optimistic side to it.
01:16:23.000 As long as the FDA doesn't lock you up.
01:16:24.000 Well, it's true.
01:16:27.000 Are you worried about that?
01:16:28.000 About the FDA? About someone.
01:16:31.000 Yeah, no, I am.
01:16:32.000 I was very nervous on the last call.
01:16:34.000 I don't want to pick a fight with the federal government.
01:16:36.000 That's just not a fight, you know, that I'm willing to take on.
01:16:39.000 And that's partially why I got out of the insurance model.
01:16:42.000 I literally, I described it this way.
01:16:46.000 Joe, it was one of the worst years of my life, man.
01:16:48.000 I lost my brother.
01:16:49.000 I built this company.
01:16:50.000 I had 156 employees.
01:16:52.000 We were days away from selling this thing, the previous company, for over $30 million.
01:16:58.000 And I was the sole owner.
01:17:00.000 And literally days before, insurance cut all of it out from under us, quit reimbursing everything, got rid of all the genetics testing, any compounded medication, any of it, gone overnight. 0.90
01:17:14.000 I had to look a hundred and fifty fucking people in the eye and say I came up short. 0.95
01:17:19.000 Right at Christmas time. 0.99
01:17:20.000 Lay off all these people.
01:17:22.000 I paid them all out.
01:17:23.000 Three months severance.
01:17:24.000 And this was four or five years ago.
01:17:27.000 And prior to Ways to Well, and I just thought, I'm not ever doing this again.
01:17:31.000 I can't build a model that is in an ecosystem that is controlled by greed and corruption.
01:17:38.000 And so, my hope was to build a life raft with Ways to Well and Revive.
01:17:42.000 And I build it, and we get all this momentum.
01:17:44.000 Patients are ecstatic.
01:17:45.000 You know, the average Ways to Well person refers me one and a half patients.
01:17:49.000 I mean, it's a cash model.
01:17:51.000 These are people spending their hard-earned money. 0.98
01:17:53.000 The way you know this works is if it didn't work, I'd be fucking fired. 0.95
01:17:57.000 They're not going to spend their paycheck for something that doesn't work. 0.97
01:18:01.000 But look at all the people you've referred me.
01:18:04.000 Everyone, for the most part, is ecstatic.
01:18:06.000 Well, I could talk about it personally.
01:18:08.000 I mean, your treatments have helped me tremendously.
01:18:11.000 There's been, like, that MCL tear that I had on my left knee that just kept fucking with me, that doesn't exist.
01:18:16.000 I just did rounds on the back, dude.
01:18:18.000 Yeah.
01:18:18.000 It doesn't affect me at all anymore.
01:18:20.000 I mean, stem cells, whether it's mesenchymal stem cells, BPC-157 peptides, all these different modalities, all these different tools that you use, they fucking work.
01:18:31.000 They're 100% work. 0.92
01:18:32.000 I'm 56 years old.
01:18:33.000 I mean, I'm supposed to be like an aging, falling apart person.
01:18:38.000 Most people that hit my age, I mean, I'm not even middle-aged.
01:18:42.000 I'm past the border.
01:18:43.000 You know, like middle age, what am I going to live to 112?
01:18:47.000 I mean, some people, I guess, have done it, but it's pretty rare, right?
01:18:51.000 And that's, if you start talking about driving longevity and driving human lifespan, you start by driving healthspan.
01:18:59.000 Yes.
01:19:00.000 And in order to drive HealthSpan, we've got to take a look under the hood.
01:19:03.000 And so this is where I was going earlier with the insurance stuff.
01:19:06.000 You've got to start thinking of your insurance, your health insurance as managed care.
01:19:12.000 They are there to manage chronic disease, maximize profits.
01:19:16.000 Right.
01:19:16.000 Okay.
01:19:17.000 What do I mean by that?
01:19:18.000 Think of it like car insurance.
01:19:20.000 Your car insurance is there when you wreck the car.
01:19:23.000 Your car insurance is not there to rotate the tires, change the oil, and maintain the car.
01:19:30.000 Dana White had an amazing quote. 0.99
01:19:32.000 I will never go to a fucking primary care again in this country. 0.99
01:19:36.000 And he articulated it without even knowing he's articulating it. 0.99
01:19:40.000 And he's not even a healthcare guy.
01:19:42.000 And Dana saw it.
01:19:43.000 Well, it's based on his own personal recovery.
01:19:47.000 When Gary Brecker started working with him, he was, you know... 0.99
01:19:50.000 Really overweight, pre-diabetic, really fucked up. 0.98
01:19:54.000 And now the guy looks fantastic. 0.99
01:19:57.000 And what's crazy to me is, like, the red light bed, what it's done to his face.
01:20:01.000 It's crazy.
01:20:01.000 Like, his face looks ten years younger.
01:20:04.000 It's nuts.
01:20:05.000 Well, a lot of people don't understand, like, that...
01:20:08.000 And again, Huberman did a phenomenal job.
01:20:10.000 I can't remember the exact podcast, but he dove deep into it. 0.98
01:20:14.000 So when these primary cares or your doctor out there says red light therapy is bullshit, they don't know what they're talking about. 0.74
01:20:22.000 It's been around since 1905. A guy won a Nobel Prize for using it to treat a disease state. 0.91
01:20:28.000 I can't remember all of it.
01:20:29.000 I'll butcher it, so I won't even try.
01:20:31.000 But the gist of it is, there was just a study done in orthopedics that Red light therapy helped reduce osteoarthritis better than steroid injections and the other treatment options that they're using in the marketplace in orthopedics today.
01:20:47.000 And it's not FUFU pseudoscience.
01:20:49.000 Huberman breaks it down and explains it through using red lights.
01:20:53.000 There's long wave and short wave, right?
01:20:55.000 And the long wave pierces through the epidermis into all of the tissue in your body, all the way to the cellular level, all the way to your cells, spurring Cellular turnover and increasing ATP, which is cellular energy.
01:21:10.000 And so it gives your body the energy needed to heal itself.
01:21:15.000 It reduces inflammation.
01:21:18.000 It helps with neuropathic pain.
01:21:20.000 It helps with skin tone, skin complexion.
01:21:23.000 It helps with eyesight.
01:21:24.000 But again, these are all things that typically aren't talked about in traditional medicine.
01:21:31.000 Well, like I said, I know it works.
01:21:33.000 I know it works because I'm a part of it.
01:21:35.000 And what's fascinating is the ability to maintain.
01:21:38.000 Because everyone's worried about getting old and getting decrepit.
01:21:41.000 But if you're not seeing any decline as you age in your ability to maintain your physique, your endurance, your energy levels, we haven't done this before.
01:21:54.000 This hasn't been something on a large scale that human beings have participated in while they were going through this process of degeneration, the natural degeneration that most people experience as they get older.
01:22:07.000 Well, it's such a multitude.
01:22:09.000 You asked me, too, last time.
01:22:12.000 You asked me about low testosterone and what could have caused it, and I look at that and I go, it's everything, right?
01:22:20.000 Like, there's another, when we get back to red light, red light, or not red light, Green and blue light can increase testosterone levels, right?
01:22:29.000 What is green and blue light?
01:22:50.000 Are you inflamed?
01:22:51.000 What is your diet?
01:22:52.000 Are you working out?
01:22:54.000 Are you lifting weights?
01:22:55.000 Are you getting sleep?
01:22:56.000 Are you getting sunlight?
01:22:58.000 Are you eating good protein sources?
01:23:01.000 These are all just basic questions that we could ask and dive into to help patients optimize their hormone levels.
01:23:07.000 But what happens if, like for me, I was up at 4am to go get into the operating room.
01:23:12.000 I stood in the operating room and would come out and it would be dark again.
01:23:15.000 I didn't see the light of day for like 13 years, like literally.
01:23:20.000 And so I look back now and I'm like, well, of course, because what happens is if you don't get sunlight, your body upregulates melatonin and melatonin reduces testicular function and drives down testosterone.
01:23:33.000 And they believe it's because we evolved, like, essentially being, when we were cave dwellers, we would, in the winters, in the cold time of the year, our rhythms would change with the environment, and we would go and be more indoors.
01:23:45.000 That wasn't the best time to breed or procreate.
01:23:48.000 And so in the spring, in the summer, when there's more sunlight, you're in the sun more, and your melatonin level deregulates, your testosterone level upregulates, and all of a sudden, you're fertile.
01:23:59.000 And same thing with women. 1.00
01:24:01.000 Women are impacted by this as well. 0.83
01:24:03.000 Women have testosterone too, so if they're not getting enough sunlight, it can kill their sex drive, it can mess up their hormone levels. 1.00
01:24:10.000 Well, women have more testosterone than they have estrogen. 0.95
01:24:13.000 I know.
01:24:13.000 A lot of people don't realize that.
01:24:14.000 Isn't that wild?
01:24:15.000 Yeah, it is wild.
01:24:16.000 It's the primary sex hormone for both sexes. 0.85
01:24:20.000 Yeah, it's nuts.
01:24:22.000 So Huberman gets into all that, academia.
01:24:25.000 There's tons of studies on this.
01:24:28.000 And I think the main reason it's not adopted more often is...
01:24:33.000 They're just in the insurance model, right?
01:24:36.000 They use the tool that's in their tool belt.
01:24:38.000 And if that's not a tool in my tool belt, then I'm not going to talk about it and I don't have time to do it.
01:24:43.000 And that's where I see large language models and an evolving market allowing patients to get that education on their own.
01:24:50.000 They don't have to wait to talk to a doctor, right?
01:24:53.000 I will have a team of academics right there at your fingertips proactively analyzing everything about you.
01:25:00.000 And I would tell you, I talked about predictive, proactive, personalized, all that.
01:25:06.000 Another one would be private.
01:25:09.000 Private.
01:25:10.000 You do not want this data in the hands of insurance companies.
01:25:16.000 Listen to what Gary Brekka was telling you.
01:25:18.000 He worked for the big insurance companies.
01:25:20.000 He worked to assess your all-cause mortality risk and the risk profile to the insurance company.
01:25:28.000 Right?
01:25:29.000 And so if you if let's just say in a in a miracle world all the sudden Blue Cross Blue Shield rolls out a large language model to streamline your experience and they want to tie into your wearables.
01:25:42.000 The last person you want digging through your underwear drawer is the insurance company because they're going to use it to limit your care to limit what they cover and to kick you off a plan.
01:25:53.000 They're going to know when the chronic disease is coming, and they're going to charge you when they know they can monetize you.
01:25:59.000 And then as soon as you reach a state where they can't, and that's the dangerous side of these large language models, and that's the dangerous side of the tool.
01:26:08.000 And so a sword in the right hands is, you know, one thing, and a sword in the wrong hands is a whole other thing.
01:26:17.000 I wonder if they are trying to do that.
01:26:19.000 I wonder if these insurance companies are- Oh, they're for sure going to roll that out.
01:26:22.000 Yeah, if they're not already.
01:26:23.000 And that's the problem.
01:26:24.000 Like, when you have an insurance-based model, and that's where I would tell you, maintain the car outside of the system, right?
01:26:31.000 And the insurance-based large language models are going to ensure that you stay on these treatments because that's where they're profitable.
01:26:37.000 Correct.
01:26:38.000 So there's the insurance company, and then we broke this down last time.
01:26:41.000 Then there's the pharmacy benefit manager.
01:26:43.000 Pharmacy benefit managers are a middleman between the insurance companies and Big Pharma.
01:26:49.000 Okay?
01:26:50.000 And they were put in place to negotiate the price of pharmaceutical drugs for the average American.
01:26:55.000 Because so many drugs were coming into the marketplace, the government couldn't get to and decipher what drugs make sense, what drugs don't make sense, what should we cover, what should we not cover.
01:27:05.000 So they allowed pharmacy benefit managers to do that.
01:27:08.000 Within a decade the big insurance companies went out and acquired pharmacy benefit managers.
01:27:14.000 Within a decade from that date, the pharmacy benefit managers began to negotiate rebates to themselves, not discounts to the patient.
01:27:23.000 Okay?
01:27:24.000 So, yeah, that's where I was trying to go with this.
01:27:26.000 When I talked about $244 million in fraud in the state of Ohio, how?
01:27:33.000 Where's the fraud?
01:27:34.000 And the answer is, the margins are made in the mystery.
01:27:40.000 The more confusing the insurance companies can make it and the more condiluted they can make it, We're good to go.
01:28:11.000 And then they tier price.
01:28:13.000 The pharmacy benefit manager gives a tier pricing.
01:28:16.000 That tier pricing is not based on what drug is best for you.
01:28:20.000 It is based on what drug is best for their financials.
01:28:23.000 And so they prioritize drugs in a tier pricing under the misnomer to the American people that a tier 1 drug is the best drug and a tier 4 drug is not as good.
01:28:36.000 But the truth is a tier 4 drug is not as profitable.
01:28:39.000 Because there's a lesser rebate.
01:28:41.000 And so let's say, let's go back to the insulin example.
01:28:46.000 The average price of this insulin is $381 is what the Senate Finance Committee found.
01:28:51.000 $381 on, I can't remember if it's Sanofi, I think, was their price.
01:28:56.000 Out of that, the pharmaceutical company got less than $40.
01:29:01.000 So that remaining $200-something stayed at the pharmacy benefit manager.
01:29:08.000 Okay, pharmacy benefit managers are making billions upon billions of dollars a year.
01:29:13.000 They decide what gets covered, what goes on your insurance plan, what your co-pay is, what your deductible is, and they can move any lever at any time.
01:29:21.000 So, examples, let's go back to GLP-1s, right? 0.84
01:29:25.000 The weight loss, diabetes medications.
01:29:28.000 Those are showing up on insurance plans as Tier 4 with a really high price tag.
01:29:33.000 When you look at that and you go, man, wouldn't insurance companies want to get rid of that because it's cost them a lot?
01:29:38.000 No, because they're showing that the price of a GLP-1 is $1,300.
01:29:45.000 They never paid $1,300.
01:29:48.000 They paid a fraction of that.
01:29:50.000 But then they go to the patient and they say, hey, this is a Tier 4 drug.
01:29:54.000 You have a 50% copay on this drug.
01:29:59.000 $500.
01:29:59.000 Okay.
01:30:00.000 So they made their money there.
01:30:02.000 They made their money off the rebate from Big Pharma.
01:30:04.000 So the patient pays more than they actually are paying for the drug.
01:30:09.000 Correct.
01:30:10.000 That is what happens on most drugs.
01:30:12.000 And that is why I built a compounding pharmacy.
01:30:15.000 But even if they don't, let's say it's a drug that you think is covered.
01:30:19.000 Okay.
01:30:20.000 Maybe the pharmacy benefit manager got it wrong.
01:30:24.000 A drug entered the market.
01:30:25.000 They didn't know it was going to be a blockbuster.
01:30:30.000 I think?
01:30:49.000 For one month of shipping out drugs.
01:30:51.000 I'd already shipped all the drugs to their patient.
01:30:53.000 I'd already done everything.
01:30:55.000 They come in and say, yeah, we're not going to pay you.
01:30:57.000 We don't think you collected the co-pays or deductibles.
01:30:59.000 Okay, we did.
01:31:01.000 Here's all the records.
01:31:02.000 I can show you how soon.
01:31:03.000 Can you get an auditor out?
01:31:04.000 We want to cooperate.
01:31:06.000 We're a small company.
01:31:07.000 We need this money.
01:31:08.000 It's three months before we can get to you.
01:31:11.000 And then they begin to make it so hard for you to survive in their insurance model.
01:31:15.000 And then you'll be sitting there and a couple months later, knock on the door.
01:31:19.000 Hey man, I heard it's tough out there for these small pharmacies.
01:31:24.000 We're looking to acquire pharmacies just like you.
01:31:27.000 They've gobbled up.
01:31:29.000 The lifeblood of America.
01:31:30.000 They've put all these small pharmacies out of business.
01:31:33.000 They now own most of these big juggernaut pharmacies.
01:31:37.000 So even if CVS says, we only made $10 of that prescription, what did the pharmacy benefit manager make?
01:31:43.000 Okay, or what is the pharmacy, your mail order pharmacy making?
01:31:47.000 Lever after lever after lever.
01:31:49.000 Then the last part of it is, my buddy who has MS, his MS treatment I think is $14,000 a month.
01:31:57.000 We just met.
01:31:58.000 I have 260-something employees across both organizations.
01:32:03.000 We met with the insurance company.
01:32:05.000 They're raising our rates because they claim they paid $14,000 a month for his drug, right?
01:32:10.000 He had a huge out-of-pocket burden on that drug, but was happy because he thought, well, hey, man, it was going to be $14,000 and I only had to pay X. And then they never paid the 14 because they negotiated a rebate on the back end.
01:32:24.000 And then they turn around and they mark up my insurance plan for all my employees every year, year after year.
01:32:32.000 It is a profit-driven system, not a patient outcome-driven system.
01:32:36.000 And so that's all I'm trying to hammer home with patients.
01:32:40.000 When you say, why don't you take insurance?
01:32:42.000 Because insurance is the crux of the problem.
01:32:45.000 You cannot operate in that ecosystem and provide quality care.
01:32:50.000 You can't.
01:32:52.000 Everything's controlled.
01:32:53.000 Everything's dictated.
01:32:55.000 It's terrible.
01:32:57.000 And most people have no understanding or awareness of this.
01:33:01.000 So there's no real push to fix this system.
01:33:06.000 There's no real push to regulate and analyze all these problems and what's the downstream effect of these problems.
01:33:16.000 Yeah, and I even hear clinicians talk.
01:33:18.000 A lot of clinicians don't know.
01:33:20.000 Like, a lot of clinicians don't even know about pharmacy benefit managers.
01:33:23.000 The only reason I know is because I've been in every aspect of this business, and then I would get into it, and I'd go, oh!
01:33:31.000 Oh God, that's why that was happening.
01:33:33.000 Okay, now I get it.
01:33:35.000 Now I get the magic trick.
01:33:36.000 I understand what you're doing here, how you're moving and shifting profits and monetizing disease states.
01:33:42.000 So think about this.
01:33:44.000 If I can monetize your diabetes, why would I cure or prevent your diabetes?
01:33:52.000 And I know if I'm a bigwig at United or Cigna that you're going to switch jobs in three years and by the time that diabetes leads to metabolic disease and a cascade effect that puts you in a hospital that costs me more money, you're somebody else's problem.
01:34:09.000 Or, if I can stall it long enough, you're the federal government's problem.
01:34:13.000 And so, every aspect of healthcare is focused on that quarter, on that time frame.
01:34:20.000 Another terrible example of surgery, and this is honest to God.
01:34:24.000 I talked to my buddy who's a president at an orthopedic company.
01:34:26.000 He told me he was sitting down with a surgery center about joints.
01:34:30.000 And there's a new joint that they have, and it's more expensive, but the efficacy data of the long-term benefits on it Astronomically outperform the other joint that this hospital system was using.
01:34:42.000 He sat down with the CEO of the hospital and he said, here's the data, five years out, here's what we're seeing, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. 0.98
01:34:51.000 The CEO said, I don't give a shit what happens five years out. 0.99
01:34:56.000 Swear to God, this is a call I had yesterday. 0.99
01:34:58.000 He said he looked me in the eye, Brigham, and he said, if you told me that this joint will last at least 90 days and it's cheaper, that's all I care about.
01:35:09.000 Because all of their data and records and accountability are only on the first 90 days.
01:35:14.000 Once you're out of that 90 day and you've done your little review and all that, you're off again and you're no longer a monetizable patient.
01:35:22.000 And so, too, when we talk about primary cares and what's happened, the same thing with pharmacies where they've been gobbled up by insurance companies if they're in the insurance model is the same thing that happened with primary care practices.
01:35:35.000 The day of a primary care being independent and a free thinker is over.
01:35:41.000 They're employed by hospital systems.
01:35:44.000 Major conglomerates have gone out and bought up the primary care practice.
01:35:48.000 Why?
01:35:49.000 Because now they have the patient population.
01:35:51.000 If I can get you at the primary care level, then I can control the referral of where that primary care sends you as we profiteer off your disease state.
01:36:02.000 Okay, so you go to a primary care.
01:36:04.000 Let's say, let's just walk through the same example I gave earlier, a methylfolate test.
01:36:09.000 They never run that test, right?
01:36:11.000 There's genetics.
01:36:12.000 The methylfolate test tells me my genetics, but there's epigenetics.
01:36:18.000 The choices I make every day impact which genes turn on and which genes turn off.
01:36:24.000 If nobody ever has a conversation with me in my 30s about my hormone levels, about getting into the sun, about eating right, and you push me towards chronic disease because you wrote me a prescription to treat a symptom and now I go through this system and I get cancer.
01:36:42.000 That primary care is going to refer me To an oncologist.
01:36:47.000 And that oncologist is part of that same system.
01:36:50.000 Right?
01:36:50.000 And most people don't know this.
01:36:53.000 65% of an oncologist's income comes from chemotherapy.
01:36:59.000 From the markup they're making off your chemotherapy.
01:37:04.000 65%.
01:37:04.000 And I attached that link, Jamie, too.
01:37:07.000 Where it talks about this.
01:37:09.000 So, all I'm getting at is...
01:37:12.000 Russell Brand said this, and he was spot on.
01:37:14.000 Another guy who's not a clinician but understood what's going on here.
01:37:17.000 If we make things about profits and quarterly earnings and big business and not patient outcomes, don't be shocked when we get phenomenal quarterly earnings and piss poor patient outcomes.
01:37:32.000 65%.
01:37:33.000 65%.
01:37:34.000 And I attached the link just so we'd have it.
01:37:36.000 So they have a financial incentive.
01:37:38.000 Yeah.
01:37:38.000 So this is an article where they were trying to...
01:37:41.000 The insurance companies were trying to incentivize them to use a generic in this instance because this is one of those issues where there's no rebate and no way for the insurance company to monetize it.
01:37:51.000 But it breaks down how much money these guys...
01:37:54.000 65% of an oncologist's income comes from that.
01:37:57.000 Wow.
01:37:57.000 This is incredible.
01:38:00.000 And so I say all this again because I don't think that a clinician's to blame.
01:38:06.000 I don't think that...
01:38:11.000 Why would I go to a cash pay clinic?
01:38:27.000 You will not get these treatment modalities and you will not have these conversations and you will not do that deep dive.
01:38:35.000 So in a dream world, what I'm envisioning as we build this multidisciplinary institute here in Austin and we open these facilities across the country is a lot of the care will be virtual and will be managed from the comfort of your own home, driven by large language models that are tying into your wearables and all those things we talked about earlier.
01:38:54.000 But we first have to establish a baseline.
01:38:57.000 What do I mean by that?
01:38:59.000 If budget was no constraint and you could afford $1,200, I would say you come in, you do a DEXA, you do a VO2 max.
01:39:08.000 Those two data sets alone allow us to calculate your all-cause mortality risk.
01:39:13.000 I know how much visceral fat you have.
01:39:15.000 I know how much subcutaneous fat you have.
01:39:18.000 I know how much lean muscle mass you have on your left quad versus your right quad.
01:39:22.000 I know your bone mineral density.
01:39:24.000 Then we add in a VO2 max test.
01:39:27.000 If you can be in the top 25% of VO2 max, you reduce all-cause mortality by 400%.
01:39:33.000 Okay, so now you combine that with a DEXA. Now you combine that with a gut biome.
01:39:39.000 Now you combine that with a gene test where we know what genes you have, what are your genetics.
01:39:43.000 Now we can help guide you on how to prevent epigenetics, how to prevent and use epigenetics to prevent disease states from chronically manifesting.
01:39:53.000 And we can truly get proactive and predictive.
01:39:56.000 We can truly prevent chronic disease.
01:39:58.000 When you said living to be 106 or 112, whatever you said, Peter Atiyah talks about this too.
01:40:04.000 The difference between somebody dying at the average human life expectancy and making it to be a centenarian, the only difference is the onset of chronic disease.
01:40:15.000 So today, Can we stop or slow the progression of chronic disease and buy brilliant minds like David Sinclair, like Ian White, my stem cell buddy, who's our chief science officer.
01:40:30.000 Can we buy them time to see if they can unlock the code?
01:40:34.000 Because when Ian breaks it down, and I definitely want to get into stem cells.
01:40:38.000 I don't know how far in we are.
01:40:39.000 We're good.
01:40:40.000 Keep going.
01:40:41.000 Because when Ian breaks down...
01:40:44.000 When you start talking...
01:40:45.000 And this isn't me talking.
01:40:46.000 I'm trying to learn like a sponge from people who are way smarter than me.
01:40:51.000 I'm just...
01:40:52.000 I'm a simpleton.
01:40:53.000 Just trying to make it and figure it out.
01:40:55.000 But when Ian breaks down...
01:40:59.000 His theory is this.
01:41:01.000 In the world of biology, we share a common ancestor with species that live 400 years.
01:41:07.000 The Greenland shark lives 400 to 600 years with no cancer.
01:41:11.000 We have a jellyfish that lives eternally in the ocean.
01:41:14.000 It lives over 5,000 years.
01:41:17.000 It can regenerate.
01:41:18.000 We have salamanders that can regenerate limbs.
01:41:22.000 We have Galapagos tortoise that lives over 200 years.
01:41:27.000 We share a common ancestor with those species.
01:41:30.000 And what that means is within our genetic makeup, within our code, we have the code to access those traits.
01:41:39.000 How do we find those black boxes and activate them?
01:41:43.000 Right?
01:41:44.000 And so, for me, when I talk about, you know, optimists are usually successful, pessimists are usually right, like, I'm optimistic.
01:41:52.000 The future's bright.
01:41:53.000 The opportunity's there.
01:41:55.000 We can do this.
01:41:56.000 Like, there's so much opportunity.
01:41:58.000 But the first step is to get proactive, to take yourself out of the system, to do the data, because we can't improve what we don't measure.
01:42:06.000 So if you were to come in and establish that baseline that I was talking about earlier, we now have a full comprehensive analysis of where you started the day you started treatment.
01:42:17.000 The only test I hadn't got to yet is an EEG. So for me, we do...
01:42:23.000 Shane introduced me.
01:42:24.000 Shane Dorian introduced me to Wave Neuroscience.
01:42:26.000 Super cool company.
01:42:28.000 They're using artificial intelligence.
01:42:30.000 Again, it's a tool, right?
01:42:31.000 It can be used for good or bad.
01:42:33.000 The example of where AI can be used for great things is they use artificial intelligence to analyze an EEG and to put it into a report that a layman, you know, Neanderthal like me can understand.
01:42:45.000 So they scanned my brain.
01:42:47.000 I was able to look at this report and tell How my neurons are firing, where my neurons are misfiring, how my neurons are losing bandwidth from the posterior of my brain to the prefrontal cortex of my brain.
01:43:00.000 Okay, why is that important?
01:43:02.000 That woman we talked about earlier that may have anxiety or depression?
01:43:06.000 That's another tool to assess that.
01:43:08.000 We know that it has over an 80% success rate. 0.98
01:43:12.000 Way more efficacious than any SSRI, which have been debunked and proven to be bullshit too. 0.54
01:43:19.000 Way more than any of these antidepressants, anti-anxiety meds, and it's a permanent fix.
01:43:24.000 We scan your brainwaves and then from there we can use a technology called MERT which is a magnet and the AI will give you a precision approach to rewiring your brain.
01:43:36.000 So it uses a magnet to pull those firing neurons down the correct path.
01:43:40.000 And so let me quantify it and give you an example of how it works.
01:43:44.000 For me, my brain, so the human brain has variances.
01:43:48.000 Some brains are moving as slow as 6.5 hertz, you know, top tiers 13 hertz.
01:43:53.000 And that's how fast you can analyze data.
01:43:56.000 And so if there was a red dot, and I flashed it up on a screen, and I flash it once, Everyone will see that, as long as they're above 6.5 Hz.
01:44:05.000 If I flash it twice really fast, anyone below 9.5 Hz, they won't be able to make that signal connect to the prefrontal cortex to assess that it flashed twice.
01:44:15.000 Does that make sense?
01:44:16.000 Okay, so the posterior of my brain moves at 12.5 Hz.
01:44:20.000 That's a really fast brain relative to the average population.
01:44:24.000 But by the time it makes it to the front of my brain, I'm moving at 9.5 Hz.
01:44:28.000 Why?
01:44:29.000 It's years of sleepless nights, stress, anxiety, epigenetics, diet, nutrition, head trauma, these athletes with concussions.
01:44:40.000 So they're using it mainly to treat athletes with depression from concussions and brain injuries.
01:44:46.000 And we can't fix the anatomical issues of the brain, but we can help those neurons fire appropriately and maximize the delivery of the bandwidth of the signal.
01:44:57.000 And so through brain mapping, we're able to create a precision plan where that magnet is literally tuned to the frequency of my brain and is able to drive that 12.5 hertz all the way from the posterior to the prefrontal cortex.
01:45:11.000 Have you done this?
01:45:12.000 Yeah.
01:45:13.000 What did it do for you?
01:45:14.000 I haven't gone through the training yet.
01:45:16.000 Yeah, we just got the equipment at Ways to Well like last week.
01:45:19.000 Are you going to do it for yourself?
01:45:20.000 Oh yeah.
01:45:21.000 Oh yeah, because I'm at 9 point, I mean, sorry, 12.5 and at the prefrontal I'm at 9.5.
01:45:25.000 Okay, that's almost a 20% improvement in brain cognitive function.
01:45:29.000 And so when I love the idea of human optimization, like I love helping people, but like refining people who are already studs.
01:45:39.000 That's fun.
01:45:40.000 I immediately think, what about, they're using it a lot with high-level operators.
01:45:43.000 They've already signed all these government Department of Defense contracts, and they're using it for Navy SEALs, for snipers, for people who have to make split-second decisions under high-pressure environments.
01:45:55.000 You want that neuron firing all the way through.
01:45:58.000 I would imagine it would be good for comedy.
01:45:59.000 Oh, dang.
01:46:00.000 I immediately thought of Tony Hinchcliffe because sarcasm is a sign of a really powerful prefrontal cortex.
01:46:08.000 So I was interested in somebody who's like an improv roaster type.
01:46:13.000 Oh, he's the best at it.
01:46:14.000 Yeah.
01:46:14.000 Yeah, I'd love to find out how his brain is fine.
01:46:16.000 We're going to have it at the clinic.
01:46:17.000 It's actually going to arrive tomorrow.
01:46:19.000 Ooh, I want to do it.
01:46:20.000 It's sick.
01:46:21.000 I want to find out what's going on in my brain.
01:46:23.000 It's amazing.
01:46:24.000 So for me, the other thing I found out is I have a...
01:46:28.000 I don't want to call it an anomaly.
01:46:29.000 I have a rare type of brain.
01:46:31.000 Less than 15% of brains have a prefrontal cortex that can fire at the same speed as the posterior, is what they were telling me.
01:46:39.000 So I could maximize...
01:46:41.000 I'm not maximizing my brain's potential.
01:46:44.000 And then I go to, okay, when we talk about the four horsemen, diabetes, atherosclerosis...
01:46:52.000 Cancer, and then the last one's neuropathic decline, Alzheimer's, and neurodegeneration.
01:47:00.000 When we begin to use these tools and allow AI to get ahead and get proactive instead of reactive, then we can start to assess your baseline.
01:47:10.000 And now we've monitored not just your biomarkers, not just your gut health, not just your genetics and your epigenetics.
01:47:17.000 We're now also monitoring your brain health and your neurowave health.
01:47:22.000 And we can refine that with a precision approach.
01:47:24.000 And the traditional model uses a magnet as well, but it's only indicated if you, let's go back to the insurance.
01:47:31.000 The only indication where you can use this technology and have insurance cover it is somebody who's failed two or more SSRIs.
01:47:41.000 Okay, at that point, you've been taking drugs for over a year.
01:47:45.000 So who knows what's going on?
01:47:46.000 Yeah, and now you're going to take a sick patient and try to optimize their brain.
01:47:50.000 And without this AI, without the AI playing an assistant to it, the max hertz that that magnet will go is 9.5.
01:47:59.000 Has anyone done an analysis of the impact of nootropics on these?
01:48:04.000 You're going right down the path.
01:48:07.000 Not that I'm aware of.
01:48:08.000 Are you taking any?
01:48:09.000 Yeah, I take, what is it called?
01:48:12.000 Four Sigmatic, the mushroom nootropics.
01:48:16.000 But the direction we're headed with this, this is another thing I wanted to talk about.
01:48:18.000 I'm glad you said that.
01:48:20.000 We've been talking to Dell Medical School and their Psychedelic Research Institute and a former Rogan alumni, Dr. Rick Dahmer, not Rick...
01:48:32.000 Doblin?
01:48:33.000 No, Rick Doblin's friend, Dr. Bruce Dahmer.
01:48:36.000 Sorry, Jesus, Bruce.
01:48:37.000 See that firing?
01:48:39.000 Need to speed it up.
01:48:41.000 Well, you've been firing for two hours straight, bro.
01:48:43.000 You're going hard.
01:48:45.000 So, we have a letter of intent with Bruce Dahmer, and we're in negotiations with Dell Medical University to be part of their psychedelic research institute.
01:48:57.000 And what that would allow us to do is, Bruce has done a spin-off of MAPS, and the premise is it's called MINES, and it's using low-dose psychedelics to see if we can optimize human brain performance.
01:49:11.000 He came on your podcast I think like 10 years ago.
01:49:14.000 Yeah, a long time ago.
01:49:15.000 He said y'all played pool and he left that next morning and went and did ayahuasca and solved some equation that he had been working on for like a decade and came out the other end of ayahuasca with the answer.
01:49:28.000 What did pool have to do with it?
01:49:29.000 He said y'all played pool and he was telling you the next day he was going to leave to Peru to do ayahuasca.
01:49:34.000 So I didn't know if that would refresh your memory on who he was.
01:49:36.000 Oh, no, I remember him.
01:49:36.000 Okay.
01:49:37.000 Yeah.
01:49:37.000 Super nice guy.
01:49:38.000 But so he's had this vision of could we use psychedelics to solve complicated equations and puzzles?
01:49:45.000 And I know there's like a bunch of mixed reviews on if this is true or not.
01:49:49.000 So I don't want to like Frick using LSD to come up with the theory of the helix.
01:50:03.000 Right.
01:50:10.000 Did it change neuropathic response?
01:50:14.000 Using the EEG and using the wave neurosciences technology gives us just another tool in the tool belt, another assessment tool.
01:50:28.000 That's very interesting.
01:50:30.000 Well, I know that nootropics do have an effect.
01:50:33.000 They definitely have an effect on me.
01:50:35.000 So I would really like to try the difference between trying something like AlphaBrain Black Label and then doing that study and see if it has an impact on whether or not it's more efficient.
01:50:47.000 No, I'm in the same.
01:50:48.000 And I also am curious.
01:50:50.000 Can we pause real quick so I can take a leak?
01:50:52.000 Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
01:50:55.000 So, back to it, stem cells.
01:50:58.000 Alright.
01:50:58.000 Yeah.
01:50:59.000 Yeah, so, that's another...
01:51:02.000 So, we dove deep into that last time. 0.97
01:51:04.000 I want to dive even deeper to explain to the listeners and to clinicians, because so many clinicians will say, you cannot get stem cells, or stem cells are bullshit, or they don't work. 0.91
01:51:18.000 So, let's break that down again.
01:51:21.000 What we cannot do is clone or manipulate the cells.
01:51:25.000 They have to be a minimally manipulated tissue in the United States.
01:51:29.000 These cells are mesenchymal signaling cells.
01:51:33.000 Dr. Kaplan, who discovered these, thought that they would differentiate, so he called them stem cells.
01:51:39.000 But what he found is when you put them in the human body, they actually do not differentiate.
01:51:45.000 Okay, so this is the biggest confusion.
01:51:47.000 And this is where I think a lot of orthopedic surgeons and there's a whole layer of why.
01:51:54.000 But one, it undercuts surgeries potentially, right?
01:52:00.000 It most certainly did with me.
01:52:02.000 My surgeon was recommending surgery.
01:52:05.000 He was saying, you are going to have to have surgery.
01:52:08.000 This was over 10 years ago.
01:52:10.000 Yeah.
01:52:11.000 And so they're saying, okay, if it doesn't differentiate, then it doesn't do anything, right?
01:52:16.000 And so it's because the term that David Sinclair used, heterochronic parabiosis, right?
01:52:25.000 When you take an old mouse and you merge its organ system with a young mouse, the old mouse gets younger, right?
01:52:32.000 Okay, heterochronic parabiosis happens in a mother when she's pregnant. 1.00
01:52:36.000 Dr. Ian White, again my chief science officer who has educated me on all of this, this isn't me talking, he released a study where he talked about This is occurring in a woman when she's pregnant with a child.
01:52:52.000 And we can see it.
01:52:53.000 How do we see it?
01:52:54.000 The glow that the mother has, right?
01:52:56.000 Her heart increases its capacity in the third trimester by 50%.
01:53:01.000 It is not just the mother supporting the baby.
01:53:04.000 It is the baby and young genes and protein codes supporting the mother and helping optimize her health to create an environment that is synergistic for both the baby and the mother that allows that baby to have an optimal environment.
01:53:20.000 So when we take those cells, an orthopedic surgeon says you have to use HSCs.
01:53:27.000 You do.
01:53:28.000 You have to use HSCs if you need them to differentiate.
01:53:33.000 HSCs will differentiate, they'll migrate.
01:53:36.000 What is an HSC? It's a different type of stem cell that they're pulling out of the bone marrow.
01:53:42.000 And so, but the problem with that is to extrapolate that HSC, you're pulling it from like you, you're in your 50s.
01:53:49.000 You have 50 something year old HSCs, right?
01:53:53.000 We know from the moment of birth Those HSCs' viability begin to decline rapidly.
01:54:01.000 And year after year after year, I think it's like 1 in 10,000 once you're over the age of 30. You may be getting 10,000 HSCs, but only one of them is a viable HSC that'll actually do anything.
01:54:12.000 And so...
01:54:14.000 When we look at what's happening with these cellular treatment options that are placental derived or birth tissue derived, it's the same exact product that they're using over in Panama, that they're using in all these other locations.
01:54:28.000 You're just not allowed to expand them in a petri dish.
01:54:32.000 And so there's an article that I listed on the Waste Well website because you asked me last time, is there a benefit to expanding the cells?
01:54:41.000 And my answer was the optimal dosage is the minimal dosage required to elicit the desired response with the minimal side effect profile.
01:54:49.000 What does that mean?
01:54:49.000 Does it work?
01:54:50.000 And did I have side effects?
01:54:52.000 If it works and you didn't have side effects, then there is no reason to add additional risk to a treatment or to manipulate something.
01:55:00.000 And so there was a study where they put 200 million live cells versus 20 million live cells in a heart.
01:55:08.000 And both made improvement, and the improvement did not differentiate.
01:55:12.000 It was comparable.
01:55:15.000 So when they're doing these treatments, whether it's in Panama or Tijuana, and they do these petri dish, well, they extract, they expand, they multiply.
01:55:28.000 When they have the dosage, what is it based on?
01:55:34.000 Well, they're making an assumption.
01:55:36.000 More is better.
01:55:36.000 That's where I'm going with that.
01:55:37.000 Is that it?
01:55:38.000 Yeah. 0.94
01:55:38.000 And so, historically, when an orthopedic surgeon says it's bullshit or it doesn't work, it's because they're misunderstanding the mechanism of action. 0.94
01:55:49.000 They're assuming if an MSC comes from an umbilical cord or from a birth-derived tissue, It can't differentiate. 0.94
01:55:58.000 And if it can't differentiate, it can't become something.
01:56:02.000 And if it can't become something, then it can't heal something because it's not going to become a tendon or a tendon cell and heal that tendon.
01:56:10.000 You have to take a step back and go to the whole analogy of the young rat and the old rat, right?
01:56:23.000 And you look at that and you say, okay...
01:56:26.000 When we put these young, vibrant cells in a body, it's not just the cells.
01:56:31.000 Yes, you're getting mesenchymal signaling cells, which are going to go to that site of injury and trigger your body's own cells to come.
01:56:39.000 Those cells transfer their mitochondria into your cells and their job's done.
01:56:43.000 They're out of your system in a few days.
01:56:46.000 Okay, from that point forward, the magic happens with all the other goodies that are included in that treatment.
01:56:53.000 The extracellular vesicles, the exosomes, the cytokines, the scaffolding, the RNA, right?
01:57:00.000 And so the example I can give is with a facial treatment, right?
01:57:03.000 We do a skin pen and we treat you with cellular treatment modalities and acellular, both.
01:57:09.000 But regardless, it will have RNA. RNA is a message, a messenger code, that allows your cells to get a young, healthy message.
01:57:19.000 Like I said, parabiosis, when the mother's pregnant, the baby's also improving her health.
01:57:24.000 It's not just her improving the baby's health.
01:57:26.000 Those same messages are in that tissue that we're putting in your body or on your skin.
01:57:33.000 And what they do is, think of it like a construction site.
01:57:37.000 If you're going to build a building, you not only need all the essential elements and essential ingredients or products to build that building, but you also need the blueprint.
01:57:49.000 The RNA is the blueprint.
01:57:52.000 It's the instructions.
01:57:53.000 And all the extracellular vesicles and all these other items are the goodies and the materials of life that help with the healing process.
01:58:00.000 And so we're essentially attempting to create a perfect environment for healing.
01:58:05.000 Where things have gone south is people have over-promised.
01:58:10.000 They've said it'll cure all sorts of things.
01:58:11.000 It won't.
01:58:12.000 You know, now you've got orthopedists saying they don't work, and it's because of, one, people have over-promised.
01:58:19.000 Two, you know, they don't understand the mechanism of action, and I think they're kind of thinking, well, they're not differentiating, so it wouldn't work.
01:58:26.000 Does that make sense?
01:58:27.000 Yeah, it does make sense.
01:58:29.000 But we've worked with...
01:58:31.000 Dozens of NFL athletes.
01:58:33.000 Most of them have not told their team doctors.
01:58:36.000 Not because it's banned in the NFL. It's legal in the NFL. Team doctors don't want them to use it.
01:58:41.000 Well, because team...
01:58:42.000 And even then, right?
01:58:44.000 I've talked to a guy recently about the same situation.
01:58:47.000 Yeah.
01:58:48.000 And so even then, the reason they don't want him to use it is, okay, I'm an orthopedic surgeon.
01:58:53.000 And when you know that situation behind the scenes...
01:58:57.000 You're always on the bubble.
01:58:58.000 The team doctor's interviewing for his job all the time too, right?
01:59:02.000 So if you're the team doctor and you practice good old traditional 20 year old tried and true orthopedic surgery, You're not putting anybody at risk.
01:59:11.000 You're not taking anything fringe.
01:59:13.000 You're not doing anything outside the norm where another academic guy could question you, right?
01:59:18.000 So it's playing it safe, right? 0.98
01:59:20.000 And the Hippocratic Oath is first do no harm, which is the dumbest thing. 0.93
01:59:25.000 I mean, of course, do no harm. 0.98
01:59:26.000 Like the goal isn't to not fuck it up. 0.86
01:59:28.000 The goal is to make this person better. 0.51
01:59:31.000 Like that oath makes no sense to me.
01:59:34.000 And so I've asked his permission to talk about this and we can talk about Aaron, Aaron Rodgers.
01:59:41.000 I met Aaron prior to his injury via his bodywork guy, Aaron Alexander, who I think you've met.
01:59:46.000 Crazy fitness guy.
01:59:48.000 And he's helped Aaron with his preseason prep, getting ready for this season.
01:59:54.000 And when Aaron tore his Achilles, I reached out to Aaron Alexander and I said, I would love to try and help Aaron.
02:00:01.000 And see if we can help him with this stuff.
02:00:04.000 And that's why when I was talking about the heterochronic parabiosis stuff, he had a great surgeon.
02:00:11.000 He had a great surgery.
02:00:13.000 He took a multidisciplinary approach to his healing.
02:00:17.000 It went above and beyond just doing a surgery to the point where he did cellular treatments.
02:00:24.000 Those cellular treatments are, for all the reasons I discussed earlier, creating the perfect environment for optimal healing.
02:00:31.000 He used infrared.
02:00:32.000 And I don't want to steal Aaron's thunder because he's got a documentary coming out about it.
02:00:36.000 And I think he's been documenting this entire process.
02:00:40.000 But even separate from Aaron, the truth of the matter is...
02:00:45.000 Dozens of NFL athletes that have had phenomenal results with this stuff.
02:00:50.000 I had one guy who was told he was going to be out for eight weeks.
02:00:53.000 He was back practicing in four weeks.
02:00:55.000 I said, did you tell the team doctor? 0.99
02:00:57.000 And he was like, fuck no, I didn't tell him. 0.99
02:00:59.000 I didn't want to hear it. 0.99
02:01:00.000 I would never hear the end of it.
02:01:02.000 And I just think a lot of it comes down to dogma.
02:01:08.000 Misunderstanding, frustrations with over-marketing and people promising people the world.
02:01:13.000 Also that these doctors and surgeons are a part of this same system that you've already highlighted.
02:01:17.000 They're not independent and completely outside of it.
02:01:20.000 If they were, they wouldn't be hired by the biggest teams in the world.
02:01:23.000 They want the most accredited, the most Decorated doctors to perform on these incredible athletes that are extremely valuable to these organizations. 0.99
02:01:36.000 They're not gonna just risk it on some fucking witch doctor. 1.00
02:01:41.000 Yep. 0.99
02:01:42.000 But that's where I want people to understand.
02:01:45.000 This isn't pseudoscience either.
02:01:47.000 When we talk about these cellular and acellular treatment options, these are building blocks.
02:01:52.000 These are essential ingredients that diminish as we age, right?
02:01:57.000 Same thing we talked about earlier.
02:01:58.000 As we get older, we have less and less of these viable cells.
02:02:02.000 We have less and less effective cells.
02:02:05.000 And by giving your body all of these essential building blocks...
02:02:09.000 I think?
02:02:32.000 That's the only indicated option.
02:02:34.000 That's the only option where you can make a claim, right?
02:02:37.000 But there are other options in America that work, that are efficacious.
02:02:43.000 Now, do they differentiate?
02:02:45.000 No, they don't.
02:02:47.000 But neither does the stuff you're getting in Panama.
02:02:50.000 But the future of stem cells...
02:02:53.000 And Dr. White and I have talked about this, and this is another thing we're going to be doing at the new facility here in Austin, is we're building a state-of-the-art lab.
02:03:00.000 And we are going to do trials.
02:03:02.000 And we are going to do the work at the bench.
02:03:04.000 Because Dr. White is on the precipice of being able to use HSCs, the cells that do differentiate, but we will not pull them from bone marrow.
02:03:13.000 We will take them from the umbilical cord tissue, the youngest, healthiest, most vibrant cells in With all the extracellular vesicles and goodies, and if we can harness those cells and use those cells, they would be able to differentiate.
02:03:28.000 Now, the reason you would want to do that is down the road to be able to rebuild cartilage, or, you know, the critiques that guys have, like, Jamie, could you pull up?
02:03:38.000 Is that on the table?
02:03:38.000 There's a study...
02:03:39.000 Is that on the table?
02:03:41.000 Rebuilding cartilage?
02:03:43.000 In the future, yeah.
02:03:44.000 That is not what happens today.
02:03:45.000 Has anybody ever acquired that yet?
02:03:46.000 Yeah, not that I know of, but Dr. White has some really fascinating stuff he's done at the bench, and he's been, that's why he and I were talking about, let's do it.
02:03:57.000 That's the big one.
02:03:57.000 That's the big one with people that have knee injuries.
02:03:59.000 So there's an article...
02:04:01.000 Can I pause you for one second?
02:04:02.000 Yeah.
02:04:02.000 When you were talking about this joint that is far more durable, what kind of joint were you talking about?
02:04:10.000 The doctor said, I don't give a fuck. 0.99
02:04:12.000 I don't know. 1.00
02:04:12.000 I don't know. 1.00
02:04:13.000 This was my buddy.
02:04:14.000 Was it a knee joint?
02:04:15.000 Yeah, it was a knee joint, but I didn't want to say the company.
02:04:17.000 No, no, no.
02:04:18.000 So it's a knee joint.
02:04:19.000 Because the current, like my mom just got a knee replacement.
02:04:21.000 The current one is like, you're good for 20 years.
02:04:24.000 And I'm like, Jesus Christ, I can't imagine my mom at 95 having a new knee surgery.
02:04:30.000 Yeah.
02:04:30.000 You know, which is really kind of, it's a weird thing where you say, put something in my body that's permanent, but not really.
02:04:36.000 Yeah.
02:04:37.000 Well, and that's where I'm like, you know, can we delay?
02:04:41.000 Can we offset surgery?
02:04:43.000 Even with these GLP-1s, you know, there's a whole deal that came out, I think in the Orthopedic Journal, where they're talking about now that people are taking GLP-1s and losing all this weight.
02:04:56.000 Right now there's a spike in orthopedic surgeries because one of the prerequisites is you have to be healthy for surgery.
02:05:01.000 Well that one of the biggest risk factors for knee issues is being obese, right?
02:05:06.000 You've worn that joint out carrying all that weight around so they want to get the weight off then do the surgery, right?
02:05:11.000 But what's coming is Is there will be less of those surgeries as we get the weight off these people, right?
02:05:18.000 The degenerative knees, yes.
02:05:20.000 You're going to lose a lot of that.
02:05:22.000 And then I look at that and go, in combination therapy of using, getting the weight off, optimizing their health, red light therapy.
02:05:30.000 There's all sorts of studies on red light therapy and osteoarthritis.
02:05:34.000 Jamie, on the ways to well link, there's one for...
02:05:39.000 It is umbilical cord-derived tissues and osteoarthritis, I think, out of China.
02:05:46.000 I sent that one to you.
02:05:48.000 So there was a study, just came out, 2022. It is literally ultrasound-guided.
02:05:55.000 Let's see.
02:05:56.000 Yeah, that's it.
02:05:57.000 So, literally, this is what you and I have been talking about.
02:06:01.000 When they say, where's the study?
02:06:03.000 Where's the data?
02:06:04.000 Here you go, dude.
02:06:05.000 Right here.
02:06:07.000 Ultrasound-guided interarticular injection of expanded umbilical cord mesenchymal stem cells in the knee for osteoarthritis, the safety, the efficacy, and the MRI data.
02:06:18.000 Basically, the synopsis is, it works.
02:06:21.000 Like, a huge percentage of the people ended up coming out the other end and even a year out are still having phenomenal results.
02:06:28.000 So it says right here, statistically in significant improvement on MRI scans at 12 months in cartilage loss.
02:06:35.000 So does that mean it's regenerating cartilage?
02:06:37.000 I think it's slowing cartilage loss.
02:06:39.000 Okay.
02:06:39.000 Right?
02:06:40.000 Osteophytes, bone marrow lesions, effusion, and synovitis.
02:06:44.000 How do you say that?
02:06:45.000 Synovitis?
02:06:46.000 How do you say that word?
02:06:47.000 I don't know.
02:06:49.000 Synovitis?
02:06:49.000 Synovitis.
02:06:50.000 And significant improvements in subchondrial sclerosis.
02:06:57.000 Yeah.
02:06:57.000 And so when you look at the mechanism of action, right, I keep going back to the heterochronic parabiosis, right?
02:07:04.000 The average orthopedic surgeon, they're looking at it and saying, these cells don't differentiate.
02:07:09.000 They're not going to produce anything.
02:07:11.000 They're not going to regrow a tendon.
02:07:13.000 You're misunderstanding how they work.
02:07:16.000 You're misunderstanding the mechanism of action.
02:07:18.000 It's providing the ingredients.
02:07:21.000 It's providing the building blocks and it's providing the RNA, which is the instruction.
02:07:26.000 Here's an example that's easy to show is, again, my skin.
02:07:29.000 We've treated, I don't even know, thousands of people, and when you use these cellular treatments on skin, it improves skin elasticity, it reinvigorates the cells, it improves collagen production, and it improves fibroblasts,
02:07:45.000 and it does it through the exact same method.
02:07:48.000 You're getting the message of a young, healthy, vibrant cell.
02:07:51.000 All those little codes in the cellular form of RNA are being loaded into your cells and telling your cells to act young again, essentially.
02:08:00.000 And it's causing, I don't want to call it a reversing in aging, but it's definitely slowing aging and improving cellular health.
02:08:08.000 And then you combine that with things like red light therapy.
02:08:11.000 And all these different treatment modalities that are being ignored.
02:08:15.000 And they are backed by science.
02:08:17.000 Like, I mean, I can send you, I didn't tag them on the WasteWell website, but I could send Jamie dozens of articles or you could listen to Huberman where he breaks it down. 0.99
02:08:26.000 It's wild shit, man. 0.94
02:08:28.000 It's really interesting, the resistance to it. 1.00
02:08:31.000 That's what's really interesting by people that are ignorant. 0.89
02:08:34.000 It's interesting that they would want to resist, despite all the anecdotal evidence and now actual scientific studies. 0.90
02:08:41.000 Well, and even with Aaron, Aaron Rodgers, he just got interviewed on something, ESPN or one of them, two days ago.
02:08:47.000 He's such a nice guy.
02:08:48.000 He's such a good dude.
02:08:51.000 Literally, they were saying the new conspiracy theory is you didn't really tear your Achilles or it was a partial tear.
02:08:57.000 And Aaron was so gracious about it and said, well, hey, I'm glad that Americans are now questioning things instead of just basically like a few years ago they weren't.
02:09:07.000 And they're saying this just because he's recovered so quickly.
02:09:10.000 Yeah, and it's a multitude of things.
02:09:14.000 Aaron is a phenomenal athlete.
02:09:16.000 Aaron primed his body.
02:09:19.000 Aaron had a phenomenal surgeon.
02:09:21.000 They did use an Arthrex technique, and a lot of people are saying it was a state-of-the-art...
02:09:25.000 The Arthrex technique was being used a decade ago when I was in the operating room.
02:09:29.000 So, it is a procedure that's been around.
02:09:31.000 Now, I do know one of the unique things they did with Aaron was, or not unique, but one of the newer things they did was an internal brace, which gives you a little bit more protection in the early phases of the healing process.
02:09:44.000 But Aaron's recovery, Aaron getting approved by the clinicians to get on the field faster, all of those things are because Aaron thought outside the box and Aaron is doing all of these extra things that I think most traditional medicine is ignoring.
02:10:01.000 And Aaron was open-minded enough to do that.
02:10:04.000 And waste to well.
02:10:06.000 You're not taking credit for it, but that's how he found out about all these things.
02:10:10.000 Aaron Alexander was big into red light therapy, talked to Aaron about that hyperbaric.
02:10:16.000 It's just methodically using the technology that's out there and Building upon the great work that that surgeon already did, right?
02:10:25.000 I don't want to take credit away from any of those guys or from Aaron and his hard work and his dedication that he's put into that.
02:10:31.000 This is the technique?
02:10:31.000 Yeah.
02:10:32.000 So there's the rip and the Achilles and then they suture it, bring it all together.
02:10:40.000 It is amazing how they do it now in comparison to the way they used to do it.
02:10:44.000 Yeah, and I've even...
02:10:49.000 No, it's okay.
02:10:50.000 We get it.
02:10:52.000 But Aaron was telling me, Aaron Alexander, not Aaron Rodgers, was telling me that the clinical team was looking at his Achilles and were very impressed with how much blood flow and how healthy the Achilles already was.
02:11:06.000 And so, you know, I mean, that's a catastrophic injury.
02:11:10.000 And his recovery time is amazing, and it's because of all the things he's doing.
02:11:14.000 It's been like 11 weeks?
02:11:16.000 I don't know exactly, but it's nuts.
02:11:18.000 It's something crazy like that.
02:11:19.000 Yeah.
02:11:20.000 But, I mean, again, he's worked his ass off, and he's done all the right things, and he's got a documentary that's going to show the world all the things that he did and how hard he worked to get back for that team.
02:11:33.000 So I just think it's really, really cool stuff.
02:11:34.000 I'm not taking credit for his healing.
02:11:37.000 I'm thankful that we got to play a small part, but I just think the main gist of that message is...
02:11:43.000 There are other alternative treatment options and I think a lot of times orthopedic surgeons view it as we're trying to say not to have surgery.
02:11:52.000 There are times where you definitely need surgery and my message is when you have surgery why would you not Why would you not want to optimize that?
02:12:25.000 Man, I would tell you, we should absolutely throw everything at the kitchen sink at you to heal.
02:12:34.000 Why would you not?
02:12:35.000 Whether that's IGF, whether that's testosterone optimization, red light therapy, hyperbaric, all of those things are going to contribute to the healing process.
02:12:46.000 Yes.
02:12:47.000 Well, listen man, we covered a lot.
02:12:50.000 There's gonna be a bunch of people going over this with fucking notes and trying to remember everything, but I think what you're doing is very important and I think the message, I'm very happy that we can get that message out there because there's a lot of people, and including me, that didn't really understand how difficult the situation truly was until it's laid out in a comprehensive manner. 0.97
02:13:10.000 And you know, this is the reason why you're getting bad information from your primary physician, this is the reason why you're getting bad information It's a complicated, fucked up, convoluted system that is compromised by money. 0.98
02:13:23.000 Yep. 0.99
02:13:24.000 It is.
02:13:25.000 But the message, too, is there's hope.
02:13:28.000 There's hope.
02:13:29.000 And there's so much amazing things coming.
02:13:31.000 The future's bright.
02:13:33.000 We ran out of time.
02:13:34.000 We didn't even get into CRISPR and all the things that are coming in the future.
02:13:38.000 But I'm hoping to be on the cutting edge of that.
02:13:40.000 So the last thing I'll say is, if you're a PhD, if you're in academia, if you're interested in these things, if you want to make a difference in the world, we're hiring.
02:13:49.000 We're hiring pharmacists, we're hiring pharmacy techs, we're hiring across the board, nurse practitioners, any of it, any and all of it, and also to anyone who's part of that AI world and tech world.
02:14:06.000 I've been bugging Lex to try and hook me up with some of his contacts, but it hasn't manifested yet, so we're looking for all those positions if you're sick of being part of a broken system.
02:14:16.000 Beautiful.
02:14:16.000 All right, brother.
02:14:17.000 Thank you.
02:14:18.000 Thanks for having me.
02:14:18.000 Thanks for being here.
02:14:19.000 Bye, everybody.