The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2100 - Steven Rinella & Cameron Hanes

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day!

00:00:11.000 We're good to go.

00:00:12.000 Alright.

00:00:13.000 Steve Rinella, Cam Haynes, what's happening?

00:00:15.000 Good to see you guys.

00:00:16.000 Yeah, thanks for having me out, man.

00:00:18.000 My pleasure. 0.98

00:00:19.000 Cam, explain that ridiculous thing around your neck. 0.99

00:00:21.000 What are you talking about? 0.99

00:00:24.000 Oh, this?

00:00:25.000 That thing.

00:00:26.000 Oh.

00:00:29.000 Where am I? What camera am I? Right there?

00:00:31.000 Yeah.

00:00:32.000 So this is...

00:00:33.000 How badass is this?

00:00:35.000 Solid gold mold of...

00:00:37.000 This is my first brown bear I killed with Roy.

00:00:40.000 So they made a mold off this claw.

00:00:42.000 I had this just tanned hide laying around.

00:00:45.000 I'm like, I gotta...

00:00:46.000 We gotta...

00:00:47.000 I don't know.

00:00:48.000 What's it going to do?

00:00:49.000 Just lay there?

00:00:49.000 So I'm like, I got to have something.

00:00:51.000 And I took it to Ski's Jeweler, which has been in Eugene for 104 years.

00:00:56.000 So it's kind of a cool little story.

00:00:58.000 And they came up with this crazy necklace.

00:01:00.000 So it's...

00:01:01.000 Oh, they wanted me to tell you.

00:01:03.000 It's a...

00:01:04.000 It's re...

00:01:05.000 What is it?

00:01:06.000 It's not newly mined gold.

00:01:10.000 It's...

00:01:10.000 Oh, reclaimed?

00:01:11.000 Reclaimed, yeah.

00:01:12.000 So they're not ruining the planet to get it.

00:01:15.000 This is like reclaimed gold, but it's solid.

00:01:18.000 And then there's six carats of rubies on there and black diamonds.

00:01:21.000 So the rubies... 0.95

00:01:23.000 If this is a ridiculous thing you're talking about... 0.80

00:01:26.000 Yeah, okay. 0.97

00:01:26.000 That was it. 0.97

00:01:27.000 That's a lot of pawn shop wedding rings laid up in there, man.

00:01:31.000 I know.

00:01:31.000 A lot of failed marriages.

00:01:33.000 Failed dreams.

00:01:35.000 That's where that came from.

00:01:37.000 It didn't come from like gold wiring.

00:01:39.000 Yeah, like 50 failed marriages right here.

00:01:41.000 And the rubies look like blood. 0.99

00:01:43.000 So what they did was, it's pretty fucking dope. 0.97

00:01:46.000 They made the rubies, if you could hold it up for the camera so people could see it. 0.99

00:01:50.000 The rubies look like it's dipped in blood.

00:01:53.000 There's black diamonds too.

00:01:54.000 Oh, nice.

00:01:55.000 That's a lot, dude.

00:01:57.000 You're balling out of control, son.

00:01:58.000 I know.

00:01:59.000 It's crazy.

00:02:00.000 So the last, I had that one from Scooby, the CH. He made me, never worn it since, but I wore it here.

00:02:05.000 Then the last time I had, my son had an ivory from a bull I killed in Arizona.

00:02:10.000 He just put it on a leather strap and that was my last podcast adornment.

00:02:16.000 Now, here we are.

00:02:18.000 Cody Garbrandt gave me one that has my dog's face on one side and the other side that has the JRE logo.

00:02:24.000 I'm like, either one of them is too weird for me to wear.

00:02:26.000 Carved into an ivory?

00:02:27.000 No, no, no.

00:02:27.000 It's solid gold.

00:02:28.000 Oh, solid gold.

00:02:29.000 I was like, that's some intricate carving.

00:02:31.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:02:31.000 It's so ridiculous. 0.98

00:02:33.000 Hey, no, there's no limit now, obviously. 0.92

00:02:35.000 Do you got any jewelry, Nella?

00:02:36.000 Come on, Steve.

00:02:37.000 Uh-uh, no.

00:02:37.000 Nothing?

00:02:38.000 Uh-uh.

00:02:40.000 No tattoos, no jewelry, man.

00:02:42.000 If I ever turn up dead in the lake, they won't be able to identify me.

00:02:46.000 Do you have a rubber wedding ring?

00:02:47.000 Do you wear one of those?

00:02:48.000 Well, I went from regular to silicon to nothing.

00:02:54.000 Yeah?

00:02:54.000 I don't wear one anymore.

00:02:55.000 My wife doesn't wear one very often.

00:02:57.000 Oh, yeah?

00:02:58.000 No, don't wear one.

00:03:00.000 I'd yell at my wife. 1.00

00:03:02.000 Where the fuck are you going? 1.00

00:03:03.000 Put that leash on. 1.00

00:03:05.000 It's not like anyone comes and scams on me now.

00:03:09.000 I smell like a married dude.

00:03:11.000 I don't need that thing.

00:03:12.000 I get it.

00:03:13.000 I don't mind wearing it.

00:03:15.000 And I love these silicone ones.

00:03:17.000 These are great.

00:03:18.000 You can lift weights in them.

00:03:19.000 I don't do...

00:03:20.000 I do everything in them.

00:03:21.000 I had a couple accidents with snagging it and then arced it on a battery, the metal one.

00:03:26.000 Yeah.

00:03:26.000 And then I got on this thing and people were sending us all these pictures too of what they call degloving.

00:03:32.000 Sheething.

00:03:33.000 Yeah, where you pull it off.

00:03:34.000 Man, we got just people sending horrible pictures like guys catching them on a ladder rack on a truck and then like jumping down.

00:03:42.000 Oh, endless...

00:03:44.000 And that cured me forever, that metal one.

00:03:46.000 I kept the metal one in a little baggy.

00:03:48.000 I will wear the metal one if I go to dinner with my wife.

00:03:51.000 Oh, really?

00:03:51.000 Or if I'm doing the UFC, I'll wear the metal one if I have a nice watch on.

00:03:55.000 But I never wear it other than that.

00:03:57.000 Oh, that's cute that you put it on at dinner.

00:03:58.000 I'm going to do that sometime.

00:03:59.000 We do date nights.

00:04:00.000 You put your ring on.

00:04:01.000 Yeah.

00:04:01.000 I'm going to start doing that.

00:04:02.000 Well, I always wear my rubber ring, the silicone ring, but the metal one I'll put out.

00:04:09.000 It's a nice one.

00:04:10.000 Dude, I'm going to take that little tip, man.

00:04:12.000 It's a good tip.

00:04:13.000 It's a good tip for date night.

00:04:15.000 I had to use mine for this.

00:04:18.000 My wedding ring.

00:04:21.000 Your wife's like, where's your wedding ring? 1.00

00:04:23.000 Wow.

00:04:24.000 You know the necklace I got?

00:04:25.000 I still have it.

00:04:27.000 It's just assumed it's Final Four.

00:04:29.000 I wear it all the time.

00:04:30.000 I'm wearing it right now.

00:04:31.000 My buddy in Alaska, his wife kept all of her jewelry in this little box, and her house burnt down.

00:04:41.000 And he later went and found all that stuff.

00:04:43.000 It melted into a blob.

00:04:46.000 So she took that blob and took it to a jeweler and had that blob turned into a big old necklace.

00:04:53.000 So it's just like this amorphous glob.

00:04:56.000 Oh, the glob with no change to it?

00:04:58.000 Oh yeah, like this amorphous glob of gold that she'll put on now.

00:05:01.000 And then it was like all of her stuff in this little pile that melted together. 0.98

00:05:06.000 That must have been a fucking hell of a fire. 0.97

00:05:08.000 Oh yeah, oh no, it was for sure. 0.98

00:05:09.000 And she didn't wear it, wear it, but she would get it out and be like, oh here's all my...

00:05:14.000 All the little lumps.

00:05:15.000 Cheers, all my stuff.

00:05:17.000 Yeah, the jewelry thing is a weird thing.

00:05:20.000 One of the things we're going to do for Protect Our Parks, we've been talking about doing this, is get grills, like the rappers wear.

00:05:27.000 We're all going to wear grills during the podcast, so we're going to get fitted with diamond grills.

00:05:32.000 They take a little diamond dust, and you smile like Paul Wall, and you have a full mouthful of diamonds.

00:05:40.000 I think you'd look badass.

00:05:41.000 That's my next move. 0.92

00:05:44.000 Just fangs.

00:05:45.000 I have a tooth that got knocked out and it's like one of those calves. 0.91

00:05:51.000 And one time we were drinking and I, when I was younger, we were drinking and I was trying to open up.

00:05:57.000 It used to be that company that made tequila that had like a sombrero for a lid.

00:06:02.000 And I was opening one of these bottles and broke that fake tooth off.

00:06:07.000 And all night I'm going on about how I'm getting the gold.

00:06:12.000 It's gone, you know, and all night I'm like making a plan, talking all this, and I woke up in the morning and looked in the mirror and I just wanted a white, a regular white tooth bag so bad.

00:06:23.000 Yeah, there it is.

00:06:24.000 So you opened it up with your tooth?

00:06:26.000 Yeah, I broke that tooth and then like got fired up about getting a gold one and no, never did it.

00:06:32.000 That would have been the closest thing I had toward jewelry, my gold tooth, but chickened out.

00:06:35.000 That would have looked sick.

00:06:36.000 Yeah, I thought about a gold tooth for brief moments, generally while drinking.

00:06:42.000 Get one of them.

00:06:43.000 They have those, or they just put a little diamond on it now.

00:06:46.000 Yeah.

00:06:48.000 My old man told me that during the war, guys would carry around dental picks.

00:06:55.000 And he fought World War II. He said during the war they would carry it around and they would go and get the gold out of Germans' teeth and save it up in a bag.

00:07:04.000 And there were certain guys who were just into it.

00:07:07.000 I remember as a kid I asked him, would they ever get it from an American?

00:07:10.000 He goes, that'd be a good way to get shot.

00:07:13.000 But they'd dig it out of there.

00:07:16.000 Which is a macabre business, man.

00:07:18.000 Yeah.

00:07:18.000 Very macabre.

00:07:19.000 People used to dig up graves to do that, right?

00:07:22.000 Mm-hmm.

00:07:22.000 Yeah.

00:07:23.000 Well, the original fillings, the silver ones, were those lead?

00:07:28.000 Don't know.

00:07:29.000 Because they used to have fillings that were metal. 0.98

00:07:32.000 And I remember people were saying, hey, those are fucking terrible for you. 0.96

00:07:36.000 They figured it out years later. 1.00

00:07:37.000 It's like living your whole life with a fishing sinker in your mouth, man.

00:07:40.000 Right.

00:07:40.000 Have you seen...

00:07:41.000 You saw Shane Gillis last night.

00:07:42.000 Yeah.

00:07:43.000 How funny is that dude?

00:07:44.000 Oh, my God.

00:07:44.000 He's hilarious.

00:07:45.000 He's so funny.

00:07:46.000 He had a bit about George Washington, and it's one of the funniest bits I've ever seen in my life.

00:07:50.000 And George...

00:07:51.000 It's a whole bit about going to the George Washington Museum, because he's a real history buff.

00:07:55.000 But one of the things was George Washington's teeth.

00:07:58.000 Like George Washington's teeth...

00:07:59.000 His wooden teeth?

00:08:00.000 No, no, they weren't wooden.

00:08:01.000 They were set in lead.

00:08:03.000 Oh, is that right?

00:08:04.000 The fake thing that he had was set in lead.

00:08:07.000 The top was horse teeth and the bottom was slave teeth.

00:08:12.000 So they'd have teeth pulled from his slave. 0.95

00:08:15.000 No.

00:08:16.000 Yes, yes.

00:08:17.000 And then that thing was set in lead with springs on it.

00:08:21.000 And that was George Washington's teeth.

00:08:24.000 Hmm. 0.98

00:08:25.000 I mean, how fucking crazy is that? 0.97

00:08:29.000 But his whole bit is about how George Washington had lead poisoning. 1.00

00:08:33.000 He was a fucking maniac. 1.00

00:08:34.000 Because he was at the front of the line. 1.00

00:08:37.000 Just fucking hack. 0.99

00:08:39.000 You have to see the bit. 0.99

00:08:41.000 It's very funny.

00:08:42.000 Folklore notwithstanding.

00:08:44.000 Washington's false teeth were not wooden.

00:08:47.000 He obtained them instead from horses, donkeys, cows, and human beings.

00:08:50.000 According to his account books, 1784, emulating some of his affluent friends, he bought nine teeth from unidentified Negroes, perhaps enslaved African Americans at his beloved Mount Vernon.

00:09:01.000 The price was 122 shillings.

00:09:05.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:09:06.000 I mean, imagine eating with that fucking monstrosity of lead in your face. 0.99

00:09:13.000 So he's got that in his mouth all the time, just getting lead poisoning. 1.00

00:09:17.000 Hmm.

00:09:18.000 That's pretty intense.

00:09:19.000 Pretty intense.

00:09:20.000 Having another dude's teeth in your mouth, too, is wild.

00:09:23.000 Yeah.

00:09:23.000 I had a cadaver bone in my jaw for a while, and you'd get little pieces of it, and you're always spitting out little pieces of some guy.

00:09:34.000 Whoa.

00:09:35.000 Some other dude, you know.

00:09:37.000 You had it for a while?

00:09:37.000 They took it out?

00:09:38.000 Well, no, it just heals up.

00:09:40.000 Oh.

00:09:40.000 So they drill a hole in there, and they fill it full of cadaver bone.

00:09:45.000 Whoa.

00:09:46.000 And I asked who the dude was.

00:09:47.000 You know, they can't figure out who he was.

00:09:50.000 I have...

00:09:50.000 You're like all over your office or whatever.

00:09:52.000 You're like...

00:09:53.000 Some little chunk of a guy you don't know.

00:09:55.000 My right knee is a cadaver ACL 10. But it's not anymore.

00:10:02.000 What happens is your body proliferates it.

00:10:05.000 So it just acts as a scaffolding.

00:10:07.000 And then your body just fills it in with its own tissue.

00:10:10.000 They ever give you info about the person?

00:10:12.000 No.

00:10:13.000 No.

00:10:13.000 I just told them, get me a Viking.

00:10:15.000 Get me some fucking gigantic dude who's been swinging a battle axe his whole life. 0.98

00:10:20.000 They actually used the Achilles tendon, though, because it's much thicker than the original ACL. It's like 150% stronger than an initial ACL. I would do that operation again in a heartbeat. 0.99

00:10:32.000 I've always told everybody, I've had my knees done both ways.

00:10:35.000 I had my left knee done with a patella tendon graft, which was the most painful and took forever to recover from.

00:10:40.000 And then I had my right knee done with a cadaver graft.

00:10:43.000 It was way easier.

00:10:44.000 I went to a party five days after the operation with no crutches, no nothing.

00:10:51.000 I just put a brace on and walked.

00:10:53.000 And I was like, this feels fine.

00:10:55.000 I mean, it was obviously unstable, I guess.

00:10:58.000 It was weaker, so I put the brace on.

00:11:00.000 But I could walk around.

00:11:03.000 It was not that big a deal. 0.99

00:11:05.000 The first one, I was in fucking agony for months. 0.99

00:11:08.000 At least weeks. 0.99

00:11:10.000 Because they have to saw...

00:11:12.000 What they do is they take your patella tendon, which is a very large, thick tendon.

00:11:16.000 You don't need all of that.

00:11:17.000 And they take a strip of it.

00:11:19.000 Like peeling string cheese.

00:11:21.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:11:22.000 And then they take a chunk of your kneecap and a chunk of your shin.

00:11:25.000 So they pull that out.

00:11:27.000 And then they open you up like a fish.

00:11:29.000 And then they screw it in at the top and screw it in the bottom.

00:11:32.000 And that's your new ACL. So it's a part of your body.

00:11:35.000 So your body accepts it.

00:11:36.000 It's not like another person's tissue.

00:11:39.000 Which, you know, could be an issue.

00:11:41.000 Your body might reject it.

00:11:42.000 And then, you know, it takes a long-ass time before you can even get on your knees again.

00:11:46.000 It took like a year before it doesn't bother me to, like, be on my knees, you know, like if you're hammering something or something.

00:11:52.000 I couldn't get on that knee. 0.89

00:11:54.000 It was just so fucking painful. 0.97

00:11:56.000 Because, you know, you got a hole there and a hole in the kneecap. 0.95

00:11:59.000 But it all fills in eventually.

00:12:01.000 Hmm.

00:12:02.000 Wow.

00:12:02.000 Both of them are fine now.

00:12:03.000 But if I had to tell people if they're going to get the operation, get the fucking cadaver. 1.00

00:12:07.000 Get that dead dude. 1.00

00:12:08.000 That's risky.

00:12:08.000 Now, what if you get a vegan that's vaccinated cadaver?

00:12:14.000 Your knee's going to blow out every day.

00:12:18.000 Like flimsy string cheese.

00:12:20.000 Like when your bowstring is getting frayed. 0.97

00:12:23.000 You're like, damn, should I replace this? 1.00

00:12:25.000 Like when your D-loop is fucking vegan. 1.00

00:12:27.000 Screwed me on this ligament. 1.00

00:12:32.000 Yeah.

00:12:32.000 Poor vegans, man.

00:12:34.000 You want to talk about people that have been sold bill of goods.

00:12:37.000 Not very durable, are they?

00:12:38.000 It's not just that.

00:12:40.000 It's like there's so much propaganda that that is good for you.

00:12:44.000 And there's so much evidence that it's not.

00:12:46.000 And this mindset that these folk...

00:12:54.000 I've had conversations with people.

00:12:56.000 We try to be rational with them.

00:12:57.000 Like, if meat really caused cancer, do you know that 95% of the people on Earth eat meat?

00:13:02.000 Like, well, look at all the cancer.

00:13:04.000 Yeah, but look at all the other food they eat.

00:13:06.000 Do you understand how epidemiology studies work?

00:13:09.000 When they have these arguments, no one ever takes it to this rational conclusion.

00:13:16.000 Do you know how they work, the epidemiology studies?

00:13:18.000 No.

00:13:19.000 If they say there's been a correlation between high consumption of red meat and cancer, people eat red meat five times a week are much more likely than people...

00:13:28.000 What are they eating with it?

00:13:30.000 They don't take that into effect because it's not a real study. 1.00

00:13:33.000 It's bullshit. 0.99

00:13:34.000 What they're doing is just trying to come up with some biased interpretation of data that makes it seem more like that meat is killing you. 1.00

00:13:42.000 I was trying to explain correlation, causation, all that to my kid the other night.

00:13:46.000 I was telling him about stuff like this, like education levels and divorce rates, right?

00:13:54.000 I'm like, no one's going to untangle what it is, but you can look at these things and see that there's something going on.

00:14:00.000 Yeah.

00:14:03.000 Yeah.

00:14:21.000 And then you say five.

00:14:22.000 And they say, well, we've gathered up all the data.

00:14:24.000 And the people that eat red meat five days a week are much more likely to have cancer.

00:14:28.000 Yeah, but most people who eat red meat are eating burgers.

00:14:31.000 And they're eating burgers from, like, Jack in the Box or whatever. 0.99

00:14:34.000 Or you get this bullshit bun. 0.99

00:14:37.000 You get these fries that are made in seed oil. 1.00

00:14:39.000 You're probably washing it down with a Coca-Cola. 0.99

00:14:41.000 You're flooding your body with unnatural levels of sugar and these carbohydrates that are all processed with folic acid and bullshit. 1.00

00:14:50.000 And they're fucking terrible for you. 0.99

00:14:52.000 And your gut is just inflamed and your whole body's freaked out. 0.99

00:14:56.000 And then do you smoke cigarettes?

00:14:57.000 And do you drink alcohol? 1.00

00:14:59.000 And do you live near a fucking power line? 1.00

00:15:02.000 Like, just like... 1.00

00:15:03.000 There's so many factors that lead you to...

00:15:07.000 If it was just, like... 0.99

00:15:08.000 I want to see a study on people who eat wild game or grass-fed beef and just fucking vegetables. 0.99

00:15:15.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:15:15.000 Like, are those studies? 0.99

00:15:16.000 Like, I bet those folks aren't getting, like, high instances of cancer.

00:15:20.000 Cancer is, like...

00:15:21.000 There's a lot of environmental factors.

00:15:22.000 There's a lot of genetic factors.

00:15:24.000 There's a lot of things that lead people to get cancer.

00:15:27.000 It's not just what you eat.

00:15:28.000 But...

00:15:30.000 When they say meat, like, what else are you eating?

00:15:33.000 Why are you blaming meat?

00:15:35.000 Well, what I used to do is go to McDonald's.

00:15:37.000 So yeah, I had red meat because in the burger, two plain hamburgers, large fry, apple pie, Diet Coke, and a milkshake. 0.99

00:15:49.000 Think about all the bullshit in there. 0.99

00:15:51.000 And they're like, do you eat a lot of meat? 1.00

00:15:52.000 Uh-huh.

00:15:53.000 Blame the meat.

00:15:54.000 Right. 1.00

00:15:54.000 It was like, to your point, look at all that other shit. 1.00

00:15:58.000 Sugar and carbs. 1.00

00:15:59.000 Exactly.

00:16:00.000 That oil in that meal right there would probably kill you. 0.98

00:16:03.000 Yeah.

00:16:03.000 And some people...

00:16:05.000 It's the same people going through McDonald's or Burger King or Wendy's every single day getting their go-to.

00:16:10.000 Yeah, so those are the people that you're asking about, do you eat red meat?

00:16:13.000 Yeah.

00:16:14.000 And of course they are, but look at all.

00:16:16.000 But yeah, I just got my blood test yesterday from my get it tested every once in a while.

00:16:20.000 And my numbers are phenomenal.

00:16:24.000 I eat meat five times a day.

00:16:27.000 Yeah.

00:16:28.000 I mean, I'm eating meat all day, all wild game meat though.

00:16:33.000 I find that people also have...

00:16:35.000 I was talking this the other day with my buddy Seth where people also have a tendency to...

00:16:45.000 There's so much conflicting dietary information that people also will find something aligns with their aesthetic.

00:16:53.000 Or that aligns with their political sensibility.

00:16:57.000 Meaning, if your general tendency is to be opposed to Meat production, certain agricultural practices, and you see an article where it says, you know, high meat diet correlates with cancer.

00:17:16.000 They're going to read that with great enthusiasm.

00:17:18.000 Yes.

00:17:19.000 Yeah, confirmation bias. 1.00

00:17:20.000 Because they're going to be like, oh, this lines up with a bunch of shit I already think. 0.99

00:17:23.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.99

00:17:24.000 And so, when we were talking about this, we were trying to, I was sort of teasing out, right, like, I like to have a garden.

00:17:32.000 I like to hunt.

00:17:34.000 And I look with fondness upon data that suggests that eating fresh veggies and meat is really good for you.

00:17:42.000 And it definitely feels good.

00:17:45.000 But I'm sort of like, do I make the same mistake that I tease other people for making?

00:17:51.000 If I read some study that said eating mule deers You know, the best thing you can possibly do, I'd be like, no, that's my kind of study.

00:18:00.000 Yeah, but it just makes logical sense.

00:18:03.000 Yeah, it does, for sure.

00:18:04.000 You understand the building blocks of human beings and, like, what's necessary to promote, you know, all the things that you need that only come from animal tissue, B12, collagen.

00:18:15.000 There's, like, there's so much stuff that you can get from meat that you're just not going to get from anywhere else.

00:18:19.000 So whenever I see an athlete That starts going on a vegan diet.

00:18:24.000 I look at it the same way as like a snake handler.

00:18:26.000 Like, okay, let's see how this plays out. 0.86

00:18:29.000 You gotta get bit.

00:18:30.000 It's gonna take some time.

00:18:32.000 Plays out the same every time.

00:18:34.000 It's like I have a friend and he was like, my girlfriend's gonna let me do threesomes.

00:18:39.000 The moment I hear things like that...

00:18:42.000 That's my kind of article.

00:18:43.000 I have the exact same feeling as someone coming up to me saying, hey man, I started making my own bombs.

00:18:51.000 This is not going to work out.

00:18:54.000 I know a guy that went through something like what you're talking about.

00:18:58.000 I remember when he broke it out for me about some deal he had arrived at in his marriage.

00:19:06.000 I was just It looks good on paper. 0.95

00:19:09.000 I've fucking never seen an example once of it working.

00:19:12.000 I can't tell you how I know, but I can just tell you that this is not a classic one. 0.91

00:19:16.000 It never works.

00:19:17.000 Yeah.

00:19:18.000 I mean, if you just sketch it out right here, it might look all right.

00:19:22.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:19:22.000 She's going to kill you in your sleep, bro. 0.99

00:19:24.000 This is not going to work. 1.00

00:19:25.000 This is real.

00:19:26.000 God.

00:19:27.000 Get out now! 1.00

00:19:29.000 Yeah, but the vegan diet thing, it's just so unfortunate that people have been...

00:19:34.000 It's such a...

00:19:36.000 I get how you could come to this sort of idea where if you just eat vegetables, then you're not as responsible for killing.

00:19:45.000 But one of the real problems is, well, first of all, there's a real problem of farming.

00:19:52.000 Especially industrial monocrop agriculture. 0.98

00:19:55.000 Goddamn, they kill a lot of things to get that crop out. 0.99

00:19:57.000 They kill everything that's in the ground when they're using the combines. 1.00

00:20:01.000 They use people to kill groundhogs. 0.99

00:20:04.000 They're killing all the varmints and gophers and everything gets fucking killed, right? 0.99

00:20:09.000 We all know that. 0.98

00:20:10.000 Ground nesting birds, fawns get chewed up.

00:20:13.000 There's a lot of things that happen.

00:20:15.000 But then on top of that, there's emerging evidence that plants have intelligence.

00:20:20.000 That not only do they have intelligence, but they communicate through the mycelium in the ground.

00:20:24.000 And that they share resources.

00:20:28.000 Like, they allocate resources towards plants that need it more.

00:20:33.000 There's evidence that they communicate with each other. 0.97

00:20:36.000 Like, for instance, the acacia tree, which There's trees in Africa where when giraffes eat them, if they're downwind, the other trees that are downwind will start producing a potent chemical that makes their leaves taste like shit, 0.99

00:20:56.000 so that they know that they're getting chewed on by, you know, oh my god, there's a giraffe in the neighborhood, start tasting like shit. 0.94

00:21:02.000 And so they release chemicals. 1.00

00:21:04.000 I mean, how insane is that?

00:21:06.000 Not only is it that, But they have now shown that they can play recordings of insects eating the leaves.

00:21:16.000 And if they play those recordings next to the plant, the plant will start producing those toxic chemicals that make them taste bad.

00:21:25.000 I've read that about willows.

00:21:27.000 I never checked to see how valid it is, but that a willow will send root tendrils in the direction of the sound of running water.

00:21:36.000 That makes sense.

00:21:36.000 I don't know, that's cool.

00:21:37.000 Sorry I counted me to step over your hand.

00:21:39.000 Oh, no, no.

00:21:40.000 I was just saying, so it's sound and also you said, before you said it was downwind.

00:21:44.000 Yeah, downwind too.

00:21:45.000 It's scent and sound.

00:21:47.000 It's a bunch of things that they don't understand because they don't have noses.

00:21:50.000 They don't have ears.

00:21:52.000 How does the sound of caterpillars eating leaves change the chemical structure of these plants?

00:22:00.000 How are they knowing, okay, time to let loose the poison.

00:22:04.000 How are they getting it because they're downwind?

00:22:06.000 But it gets so bad that animals, some animals that try to eat them, they wind up starving to death because they don't want to eat this stuff because it tastes that bad.

00:22:17.000 I can see where you're going with this is that sometime down the road there's going to be some tough decisions for people who are looking for general wealth, like not wanting to harm.

00:22:27.000 Yeah.

00:22:27.000 Creatures.

00:22:28.000 And when you have to face the fact that here's this semi-sentient communicative plant that you're yanking out of the ground.

00:22:37.000 It just can't move quick.

00:22:39.000 And it does move.

00:22:41.000 And if you watch high-speed images of plants growing and moving with the breeze, you're like, oh, it's just a different kind of movement.

00:22:50.000 It's clearly growing.

00:22:52.000 It grows forever.

00:22:54.000 It's not even like another animal. 0.98

00:22:55.000 It's kind of more fantastic because it'll grow for a hundred fucking years and keep growing. 0.85

00:23:00.000 Or if you go to some of those crazy in Northern California, those trees that have been around for a thousand years. 1.00

00:23:07.000 It's wild shit, man. 0.99

00:23:09.000 Yeah, I'll... 0.99

00:23:11.000 Like, you know, I'll hunt all manner of stuff, and I used to work as a tree surgeon and would fell trees, but at our place in southeast Alaska, which is in the coastal rainforest, and we're in an area of old growth where our stuff's at,

00:23:28.000 I'm in no way condemning people to do.

00:23:32.000 I would not be able to put a chainsaw on one of those trees.

00:23:35.000 Yeah.

00:23:35.000 Like, you know what I mean?

00:23:36.000 Like, everyone finds their sort of limits.

00:23:39.000 And when I'm looking at some tree that's, whatever, 400 or 500 years old, I personally, you know, I could kill a bear without thinking about it.

00:23:48.000 Not without thinking about it, but yeah, I could kill a bear and be real happy I did.

00:23:52.000 Man, just I personally couldn't put a saw to one of those trees.

00:23:55.000 Yeah.

00:23:55.000 So people, you know, you find these lines that Well, there's also the renewable resource of bears.

00:24:02.000 You know, if you're going to kill a bear and eat a bear, that bear's nine years old.

00:24:05.000 Nine years is not that big a deal.

00:24:07.000 Yeah, it ain't 400. Yeah, I mean, I was in Scotland recently, and they had this tree, like, this is the oldest tree that, you know, is in Europe.

00:24:18.000 And I was like, how old's this fucking tree? 0.93

00:24:20.000 And they're like, it's like a 5,000-year-old tree. 0.99

00:24:22.000 I'm like, how is that possible?

00:24:23.000 Yeah, it's incredible.

00:24:24.000 See if you can find that, like, the oldest tree in Scotland. 0.97

00:24:28.000 It was a crazy, gnarled-up-looking, fucked-up tree. 0.94

00:24:31.000 I might be wrong with the age, but it was crazy old. 0.98

00:24:34.000 And I was like, whoa, how do you know?

00:24:37.000 How do you know how old this is?

00:24:38.000 When you go to Europe, Scotland was amazing.

00:24:41.000 I took this trip with my wife, and we went to visit these sites where they have these stone circles that are older than Stonehenge, and they're right in front of this dude's house.

00:24:51.000 Like, this dude has a house, and then there's a small street, like a two-lane street, 5,000 years old.

00:24:57.000 Yeah, 5,000.

00:24:58.000 A huge tree.

00:25:02.000 Google says 2-3,000 years old?

00:25:04.000 Okay, so the sign says 3,000. 0.97

00:25:06.000 Well, back when they made that sign, what kind of fucking carbon dating did they have, you know? 0.97

00:25:10.000 Look how old that sign is. 0.97

00:25:11.000 Some dude said, man, that tree must be 5,000 years old.

00:25:14.000 Put that on the sign.

00:25:15.000 Look at the image of it.

00:25:16.000 That's what it looked like.

00:25:17.000 See the image of it to the right, Jamie?

00:25:20.000 No, slightly to the left of that?

00:25:21.000 Yeah, that's it.

00:25:22.000 That's it.

00:25:22.000 That's exactly what it looked like.

00:25:24.000 That one's 1,000-year-old.

00:25:26.000 North Downs in Surrey, so that's in England. 1.00

00:25:28.000 Yeah, fuck that ugly tree. 1.00

00:25:30.000 That tree looks dope. 1.00

00:25:32.000 It looks dope.

00:25:33.000 That's not the tree Steve was talking about.

00:25:35.000 I think they look cool.

00:25:36.000 That tree looks old.

00:25:38.000 That tree looks like a gnarly old man. 1.00

00:25:40.000 Yeah, like some old dude.

00:25:41.000 I'll tell you what it was like when we rode horses everywhere.

00:25:45.000 Hey, so, Steve, I was thinking, like, so what's the difference between a person who you said you wouldn't like to cut that tree, or you wouldn't?

00:25:56.000 Yeah, but like I said, I don't say that to cast judgment on a logger that does.

00:26:06.000 I'm just saying that I personally.

00:26:07.000 No, I understand that, but then there's some people who take that to, I'm just trying to, I don't know, reason with myself, because around here we've had people chain themselves to trees.

00:26:17.000 Sure.

00:26:17.000 You know what I mean?

00:26:18.000 So, would you do that?

00:26:20.000 No.

00:26:21.000 So, that's what I'm saying.

00:26:22.000 It's like...

00:26:23.000 No, because the passion's not that...

00:26:25.000 Right.

00:26:26.000 The passion's there, but it's not that deep.

00:26:29.000 Right.

00:26:30.000 Yeah, it's just, it's weird thinking about, I understand what you're saying, and I totally get that.

00:26:34.000 I would probably, I think, I've never cut down a tree, I've never been a tree surgeon, but I would probably feel the same about maybe a 400 or 500 year old tree.

00:26:41.000 I might be like, you know man, Cam, you cut it down.

00:26:44.000 Yeah.

00:26:45.000 When I was in Northern California...

00:26:47.000 I don't want to have to deal with any repercussions.

00:26:48.000 We were in the redwood forest and there's a tree that you drive a car through.

00:26:52.000 Yeah.

00:26:53.000 They've cut a hole in the tree and I was like, why did they do that?

00:26:56.000 But it was like 1920 or something when they did it.

00:26:59.000 Yeah, they didn't care about anything. 0.99

00:27:00.000 They didn't give a fuck. 0.97

00:27:02.000 But when you're around those trees, they're so big. 0.98

00:27:05.000 It's so crazy how wide they are.

00:27:07.000 And when they're gone...

00:27:08.000 That's it. 0.99

00:27:09.000 You just chop down something that took thousands of years to grow so you could make, what, a fucking table? 0.97

00:27:15.000 There's a lot of trees that are like 20 years old. 1.00

00:27:18.000 Go kill those. 1.00

00:27:19.000 Yeah, it's a tough one, man. 1.00

00:27:21.000 It's a tough one looking at those trees, but it does seem like...

00:27:25.000 You know, some of those trees you look at, it's like you're looking at, it almost seems like some approximation of God, you know, and look at some of those old trees, man, just astounding.

00:27:34.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:27:36.000 In Oregon, that was a big thing because we had the spotted owls in late 80s, basically, and spotted owls lived in old growth.

00:27:44.000 So we had the whatever, timber activists or whoever those people are.

00:27:50.000 Sure, yeah, spiking trees.

00:27:51.000 Yeah, or living in them.

00:27:53.000 They're like, well, we live here or we chain ourselves to them.

00:27:56.000 But they were up there and so the loggers would get there to do their cut.

00:27:59.000 And there's people living in the trees.

00:28:01.000 Yeah, that one gal spent, her name was like, Joe's probably had her on the show. 1.00

00:28:05.000 I would have her on the show.

00:28:07.000 It was like Butterfly or something, right?

00:28:10.000 But I mean, I guess my point is, it's like you got people, whatever their passions are, they will go to the ends.

00:28:15.000 We defend hunting till the end.

00:28:18.000 That's our passion.

00:28:19.000 That's what we love.

00:28:20.000 But yeah, it's like all these different factions of people that, Man, you'd have a hard time saying you're wrong and believing that because that's just what they believe.

00:28:27.000 That's their passion.

00:28:28.000 So it's like finding that middle ground.

00:28:30.000 You know, the one thing that I never really thought of until I started hunting was the spiritual aspect of hunting.

00:28:38.000 It's a part of it that it's almost indisputable.

00:28:46.000 When you experience it, like when you first experience it, when you first start eating an animal that you, like the first time you ever took me hunting, when we were in Montana, and I remember when I was eating that mule deer and we were sitting over the fire, and I was like, this is so different than any meal I've ever had in my life.

00:29:03.000 It's so different.

00:29:05.000 I feel so connected to this animal.

00:29:07.000 I know how difficult it was to do this.

00:29:10.000 I know how insane their life is, that this is this wild creature that is 100% gonna die soon, no matter what.

00:29:18.000 If it's next year or the year after or the year after that, it doesn't have much time left.

00:29:23.000 And if you can move in while, you know, dip your toe into the wild and extract that thing out, to me, that was like, oh, this is the best way to eat meat ever.

00:29:35.000 This is 20, 30 times better than just getting a steak from a store.

00:29:40.000 I remember when we were sitting around the fire and you're like, what do you think?

00:29:43.000 I'm like, I'm doing this forever.

00:29:45.000 Do you remember that?

00:29:46.000 What year was that?

00:29:46.000 I don't remember that specific conversation.

00:29:48.000 That was a long time ago.

00:29:49.000 Oh, was it really?

00:29:50.000 12 years ago.

00:29:50.000 10 years ago, yeah.

00:29:51.000 2012. Okay, and then you bow hunted in 2014. Yes.

00:29:55.000 Okay, so did you kill...

00:29:56.000 I have two people in this room that introduced me to hunting, and that's our Montana mule deer right there.

00:30:02.000 That's him.

00:30:03.000 Someone lost the nose bones.

00:30:06.000 Oh, the ones out there?

00:30:07.000 Yeah.

00:30:07.000 Well, he's missing his, too.

00:30:08.000 Yeah.

00:30:08.000 You need to shake Jamie down.

00:30:10.000 He might have a pocket full of those nose bones. 0.84

00:30:12.000 I think they boil it out too long.

00:30:15.000 Is that what it is?

00:30:16.000 Yeah.

00:30:16.000 I always glue him back in.

00:30:18.000 But anyways, sorry.

00:30:19.000 But that guy is very special to me.

00:30:21.000 That guy is very special to me. 0.99

00:30:22.000 First kill.

00:30:22.000 And I remember when we were eating him over the fire, I was re-sorting my schedule.

00:30:28.000 I was like, okay, how many times a year can I hunt now?

00:30:31.000 Okay, how long is it going to take to eat a deer?

00:30:33.000 After the first time.

00:30:34.000 Right away.

00:30:35.000 Eating it over the fire, like right away.

00:30:37.000 I was like, oh, I'm doing this forever.

00:30:39.000 This is what I do now.

00:30:41.000 Right away, I was like, okay, now I've got to really research calibers and rifles and how to do this and how to do that.

00:30:47.000 I've got to up my cardio.

00:30:48.000 I've got to start hiking hills.

00:30:50.000 I started thinking all these things immediately.

00:30:52.000 I started planning out, okay, I've got to hunt every four months.

00:30:56.000 What can you hunt?

00:30:57.000 I've got to get pigs because then you can hunt them all year round.

00:30:59.000 Immediately, my brain started spinning like, okay, this is what I do now.

00:31:02.000 I was like, okay, I found it.

00:31:04.000 I've taken quite a number of people on their first hunting trips.

00:31:08.000 I've never had, I mean, probably dozens.

00:31:12.000 Maybe dozens.

00:31:13.000 Either way, I've never had any of them regret it.

00:31:15.000 Like, no one's ever said, I wish I hadn't done that.

00:31:18.000 But I would say the majority, definitely a good, strong majority did not pursue it.

00:31:26.000 Didn't regret it.

00:31:27.000 Glad they did it, but didn't make it part of life.

00:31:30.000 Well, it's difficult.

00:31:32.000 It's difficult.

00:31:33.000 And that's the thing, I think, that is the impediment for a lot of people.

00:31:37.000 It's time-consuming.

00:31:39.000 If you don't have someone like you or someone like you to teach them...

00:31:42.000 I have friends that are like, hey, I want you to take me hunting.

00:31:45.000 I'm like, oh, Christ.

00:31:46.000 I don't have the time.

00:31:47.000 I want to go bow hunting.

00:31:48.000 I'm like, do you know what you're saying?

00:31:50.000 Do you know what you're saying?

00:31:51.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:31:51.000 Like, I just want you to come with me one day and watch what I do fucking every day. 0.99

00:31:57.000 I'm going through that with my kid right now. 0.98

00:31:59.000 I'm going through that with my kid where my older kid's very interested in bow hunting, but it's just, I'm like, man, you have to appreciate the level of discipline, dude, that you got to shoot, right?

00:32:11.000 Like, I'm perpetually rusty.

00:32:12.000 Like, you can't be like me.

00:32:14.000 And I actually pulled the plug on him this year where I said...

00:32:20.000 If you shoot every day, like he'd been shooting throughout the summer, I said, if you shoot every day prior to this week, we're going to go bow hunt.

00:32:26.000 I said, I want you to shoot every day prior to the week.

00:32:28.000 And he didn't do it, and I said, we're not going.

00:32:30.000 And I'll see if next year that impacts him, but it's like the discipline.

00:32:35.000 It's unfortunate, but I think, you know, there's no way to teach someone that.

00:32:40.000 There's no way to really like get it into their head how hard it is unless they're in the field and they're drawing on an animal and then they realize like unless there's some ways to mitigate that like you've had Joel Turner on which you have you've had him on right?

00:32:55.000 No.

00:32:55.000 You never had Joel Turner on?

00:32:56.000 No.

00:32:56.000 The Shot IQ guy?

00:32:57.000 No, I'd like to, but I never did.

00:32:58.000 Oh, I've got to connect you.

00:32:59.000 Do you have his number?

00:33:01.000 No, but I'm familiar with that.

00:33:02.000 He's been recommended by many people, and the guys I work with are familiar, but I haven't had him on.

00:33:07.000 He's absolutely got...

00:33:09.000 And you've recommended him today.

00:33:10.000 Yes.

00:33:12.000 There's a thing that happens when you're in a high-pressure situation that I recognize from martial arts and from a lot of other things, where you do not have full control of your faculties, and your body is operating on anxiety and adrenaline, And when it's completely unique,

00:33:29.000 like a bow hunting thing, where you have Hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of preparation and thinking about it for seconds of action.

00:33:38.000 And it boils down to this one movement where you're like, yikes! 0.83

00:33:42.000 If you don't have a strategy for managing your mental state while that's happening, the odds of you flinching or moving or doing something stupid are really, really, really high. 0.99

00:33:55.000 And Joel Turner went through that for like fucking 15 years. 0.99

00:33:59.000 He couldn't kill an owl. 0.99

00:34:00.000 He was always choking.

00:34:02.000 And then when he became a SWAT instructor, he's on a SWAT team, so he was telling me this one story where he had to shoot this guy that was holding a young girl hostage.

00:34:14.000 And I think it was with a weapon, I forget, a knife or something.

00:34:18.000 And so he has a headshot while this guy is holding onto a girl.

00:34:23.000 And he had to figure out, like, what is the mental process that allows people to flinch and panic during these moments?

00:34:33.000 And he realized there's a difference between open loop systems and closed loop systems.

00:34:38.000 An open loop system is something like Swinging a baseball bat.

00:34:42.000 Like, once you start swinging, you're just swinging.

00:34:46.000 You're just, wah!

00:34:47.000 You know, you're swinging.

00:34:48.000 And unfortunately, with a lot of people, that is the initial reaction.

00:34:53.000 They just go!

00:34:54.000 Yeah, I get it.

00:34:55.000 Like, the final thought you have is that you're going to swing the bat.

00:34:58.000 Yeah.

00:34:59.000 I don't know if a friend of mine's a real home run hitter.

00:35:04.000 I don't know if he would agree, but in my mind, yeah.

00:35:06.000 It's like you've decided to swing and everything else is just nothing.

00:35:09.000 Well, you're not going to stop it in the middle of the swing.

00:35:11.000 Yeah, you're not thinking about, oh, I'm going to go a little higher, a little lower, right?

00:35:14.000 It's like punching.

00:35:15.000 Yeah.

00:35:16.000 Punching, when you're fighting, it's an automatic movement.

00:35:20.000 You slide back, and you don't even realize what's happening.

00:35:23.000 You're already punching.

00:35:25.000 And you're not going to stop that punch once you've launched your shoulder forward.

00:35:30.000 When you're using his system, he has you talking to yourself through every step of it.

00:35:38.000 So you're always conscious.

00:35:40.000 So it's always a closed loop system.

00:35:42.000 You're in complete control.

00:35:44.000 At any step, you can stop.

00:35:45.000 And he's like, sometimes the best shot is a shot you don't take.

00:35:49.000 When you realize you're shaking, you're holding too long, let down.

00:35:53.000 That's the best decision you could ever make. 0.87

00:35:55.000 If you get your mind to, like, just shoot now! 0.93

00:35:58.000 Just go now! 0.99

00:35:59.000 And you're...

00:35:59.000 Now!

00:36:00.000 We've all seen people.

00:36:02.000 There's so many videos online.

00:36:03.000 Dude, I've been there in my...

00:36:04.000 Yeah, everybody has.

00:36:06.000 But there's a way to mitigate that with this.

00:36:10.000 So it's not just the practice.

00:36:11.000 The practice is great.

00:36:13.000 You have to practice.

00:36:14.000 I practice constantly.

00:36:15.000 But you also should have a pre-shot routine.

00:36:18.000 And I actually used Cam's pre-shot routine when I was in Utah.

00:36:22.000 Because I remember Cam had this thing where he's saying, keep the pin on him, keep the pin on him.

00:36:26.000 And you say that while you're shooting.

00:36:28.000 Keep the pin on him, keep the pin on him.

00:36:29.000 I just know if I keep the pin there...

00:36:31.000 Yeah.

00:36:32.000 Arrow's gonna hit good.

00:36:33.000 Yeah.

00:36:33.000 What happens is people drop their bow arm a lot.

00:36:36.000 Yeah.

00:36:36.000 I mean, that's what happens a lot, is that drop that bow arm and they hit too low.

00:36:40.000 Right.

00:36:40.000 So if you keep that pin there, the bow's gonna do his job.

00:36:42.000 Oh, you're saying...

00:36:43.000 He says it to himself.

00:36:44.000 You're telling yourself, be conscious of keeping the pin on it through the shot.

00:36:47.000 Yeah.

00:36:47.000 Not moving, because the moving thing is like, I hope I hit it!

00:36:50.000 Yeah.

00:36:51.000 I hope I hit it!

00:36:52.000 Ah! 1.00

00:36:52.000 And then things go left, right, fucking three, four feet! 1.00

00:36:55.000 And you're like, how?! 0.98

00:36:56.000 You know where people realize that they have a problem? 0.98

00:36:59.000 Is after they make a shitty shot. 0.97

00:37:01.000 Yeah. 0.92

00:37:01.000 And they're just like... 0.92

00:37:02.000 Why didn't I practice more?

00:37:04.000 Why didn't I listen to Joel or Joe or whoever?

00:37:08.000 Because then it's real.

00:37:11.000 Because we have a tendency of making things work out in our head the way we want them to. 0.82

00:37:17.000 And then when it doesn't work out like that because we haven't put in the time or we don't have a process down, and maybe you hit the animal bad, maybe you miss, maybe just shit the bed, and then you're just like...

00:37:27.000 God, what am I doing? 0.92

00:37:30.000 But up until then, you're like, you're the baddest person ever.

00:37:34.000 Of course I'm going to make a great shot.

00:37:36.000 That's an interesting thing between talking to people that blow a shot with a rifle and talking to people that blow a shot with a bow.

00:37:43.000 People will blow a shot with a rifle and they'll assure you they did everything right.

00:37:48.000 Guns on.

00:37:49.000 No one blows a shot with a bow and comes away saying, I don't know what happened, I did everything right.

00:37:54.000 Because you fall into, like you're saying, you fall into this despair and guilt and you're trying to review in your head.

00:38:02.000 I've accidentally landed on a thing that's not fail-safe, but somehow when you're saying keep the pin on them, I've landed on this thing like, remember your elbow, remember your elbow.

00:38:11.000 And if I remember to like, Because when I'm shooting, just practicing, there's always this thing of sort of consciously being aware of having my elbow raised.

00:38:21.000 And that makes everything fall on the line.

00:38:23.000 And so if I know I'm going to get a shot, and I can think, like, if you'll do the part...

00:38:26.000 The elbow?

00:38:28.000 If you do the part, and then that elbow goes up, and then everything else sort of takes care of itself.

00:38:33.000 And then if I take a shot, I might review in my mind, like, I never did that thing.

00:38:38.000 I never did the elbow deal.

00:38:40.000 Which drives all the other actions.

00:38:43.000 It's imperfect, but it's similar to what you're talking about.

00:38:45.000 There's something about staying in a conscious state and being able to maintain your composure during that high pressure situation.

00:38:54.000 Maintaining a conscious state where you're talking yourself through it and not just being a reptile.

00:39:02.000 People black out kind of.

00:39:03.000 They black out.

00:39:04.000 They really do.

00:39:04.000 They don't know what to use.

00:39:06.000 I don't know what happened.

00:39:07.000 I think you use it up maybe.

00:39:09.000 I felt that if anything...

00:39:12.000 Just a gradual dissipation with age and experience perhaps?

00:39:16.000 Experience for sure.

00:39:17.000 I'd be curious if some dude started, like if some dude at 60 years old, you know, some dude at 60 years old started bow hunting, are they going to wig out like a 20 year old?

00:39:31.000 On their first shot?

00:39:32.000 Depends on who they are.

00:39:33.000 Or is there something that's like their brains already chilled out?

00:39:37.000 I think there's a part of your brain that, like, there's a part of your brain that Andrew Huberman talks about.

00:39:43.000 I forget what the exact section.

00:39:44.000 That grows.

00:39:45.000 Yeah.

00:39:45.000 That when you force yourself to do things you don't want to do, when you force yourself to get up in the morning and run in the cold and get in the cold plunge and all these different...

00:39:54.000 It literally grows larger.

00:39:56.000 This part of your brain that is able to do things that are uncomfortable Got it.

00:40:00.000 That you don't want to do actually grows larger.

00:40:02.000 And it seems to be that that's a muscle just like every other muscle.

00:40:06.000 Not a muscle, but a thing that is more robust with use.

00:40:11.000 And if you're a 60-year-old guy that's just been working in an office and listening to the boss and driving home and, you know, there's no stress.

00:40:21.000 Not stress, but no high-pressure, decision-making, in-the-moment choices that you have come accustomed to managing and dealing with and negotiating. 0.97

00:40:33.000 If you're a person who's fucking gone to war, maybe you've had some crazy high-pressure job and you're 60, you probably got fucking ice water running through your veins by the time you're 60 years old. 0.97

00:40:44.000 You've seen it all. 0.99

00:40:45.000 It depends on the human.

00:40:47.000 But for most people, there's a guy like Derek Wolf.

00:40:53.000 You met Derek Wolf?

00:40:53.000 You got him on your podcast?

00:40:55.000 I mean, you're talking about a guy that has fucking played professional football at the highest level, and even he says it's the most exciting shit that he's ever done. 0.99

00:41:03.000 I've told Cam so many times, dude, I've done a lot of shit. 0.99

00:41:07.000 I've fought, I do stand-up comedy, I do so many live things that are high-pressure. 0.97

00:41:12.000 Nothing is like elk hunting.

00:41:14.000 There's nothing like that moment when you're drawing and that thing is like in the field and it drops his head down at 50 yards and starts eating and you draw back and you got the...

00:41:24.000 You're like, is this happening?

00:41:25.000 Is this really going on right now?

00:41:28.000 It's so pressure filled. 0.97

00:41:30.000 It's such a novel and unique moment that unless you have a bunch of those moments, like, I'm at the point now, you know, 10 years into bow hunting, where when I draw on an animal, I can keep my shit together.

00:41:46.000 And now, to me, it's just like making sure I'm steady and the shot's good.

00:41:51.000 There's nothing weird going on.

00:41:53.000 There's no weird wind.

00:41:54.000 And I just go through my process, and I'm very confident now.

00:41:58.000 But it's numbers.

00:41:59.000 It's numbers.

00:42:01.000 I always tell people, like, the more things that you can shoot, the better. 1.00

00:42:04.000 And you can shoot pigs. 1.00

00:42:06.000 You can shoot things that people have to kill. 0.98

00:42:08.000 You know, if you can go to Lanai, where you can get, like, multiple shot opportunities on axis deer.

00:42:13.000 That kind of situation, that's, for me...

00:42:16.000 The difference between how I feel in September during elk season and some years where I feel great and super confident, it's always that I went on a couple other hunts.

00:42:27.000 It's always.

00:42:28.000 So you get that experience.

00:42:29.000 This is how I used to feel fighting, too.

00:42:31.000 A couple times I got injured.

00:42:34.000 And I couldn't fight for like six months, and then I'd fight but it was almost like it was like brand new again.

00:42:39.000 Like when I'd be in there like, whoa, this is crazy.

00:42:42.000 The first time you see people fight, they're in a panic.

00:42:45.000 It's like you can't believe it's actually happening.

00:42:47.000 You're like, are you ready?

00:42:49.000 And you're like, yes!

00:42:51.000 And they get out there and if you're an experienced person, it's one of the reasons why champions have such a massive advantage.

00:42:59.000 They have such a massive psychological advantage because they're the champion.

00:43:04.000 You'd see guys when they would fight Mike Tyson, they had already lost by the time they got in there.

00:43:08.000 They look at him like, oh my god, what is happening?

00:43:11.000 Is this real?

00:43:12.000 Their whole world was like that big.

00:43:13.000 And they were just in full panic and they just couldn't fight.

00:43:17.000 You know, that's kind of similar to how people feel bow hunting elk for the first time.

00:43:22.000 I mean, that bull's coming in.

00:43:23.000 Yeah!

00:43:24.000 They lost.

00:43:26.000 Yeah.

00:43:26.000 When that bull's coming in and it's coming to 20 yards, it's just like, there's a chance.

00:43:32.000 But I remember the first time we had your first bow hunt, we were in Colorado.

00:43:37.000 Two bulls were coming in on this little tight creek we were in, this little draw, coming in at the same time.

00:43:41.000 And they were just bugling.

00:43:42.000 And it was insane.

00:43:44.000 Not even Big Bulls, but just coming in and closing down on us.

00:43:48.000 And you remember that moment?

00:43:49.000 Yeah.

00:43:49.000 You were just like, it was unbelievable.

00:43:52.000 It's so nuts. 0.99

00:43:53.000 Even though all the shit that you've done, this high level crazy stuff, there was nothing that compared to that. 1.00

00:43:58.000 The screaming. 1.00

00:43:59.000 Mm-hmm.

00:44:01.000 When you're there and they're like 30 yards doing that, the sound is so nuts.

00:44:07.000 If you're not a person that's ever been around elk calling, when they do it, when they bugle, it sounds like Lord of the Rings, man.

00:44:14.000 It's such a crazy sound.

00:44:17.000 It's so crazy.

00:44:18.000 It can be intimidating if you're not ready for it.

00:44:21.000 There's a thing Derek Wolfe told me when you're talking about the stress and competitive stress.

00:44:27.000 He told me a thing that had never occurred to me before.

00:44:30.000 He talked about getting in the ring to fight Mike Tyson or whatever.

00:44:34.000 In his thing, there's a thing where you're starstruck.

00:44:39.000 Picture you're an incoming player, and you're real young, and all of a sudden you're like, I'm supposed to go tackle Tom Brady.

00:44:47.000 I've been watching...

00:44:51.000 Through my whole, like, coming up through high school, coming through college, and all of a sudden, like, wow, that's him!

00:44:58.000 Yeah.

00:44:59.000 There's the goat.

00:45:00.000 Right?

00:45:00.000 You've got to sort of put that out of your head, right?

00:45:02.000 You're like, hang tight.

00:45:04.000 Let me get his interview.

00:45:05.000 Let me get his autograph.

00:45:06.000 Then I'll come back, and then I'll tackle him. 0.98

00:45:09.000 Yeah, I mean the goat.

00:45:11.000 You've heard how he's the best to ever do it, and then all of a sudden it's almost like, you know, I'm a big fan.

00:45:16.000 I'd like to meet you.

00:45:17.000 Sorry for having to do this.

00:45:18.000 But isn't that also the case with bow hunters where you've been hunting your whole life hoping to see a 200-inch buck, and then one day you're in the mountains and this mule deer steps out.

00:45:29.000 You're like...

00:45:29.000 Yeah.

00:45:30.000 Like, this is it!

00:45:32.000 You're imagining, taking the photo, smiling on Instagram, you're imagining, you see this wide mule deer buck, like, this is crazy, this is a real one, I can make this happen, you're like, everything is just full panic!

00:45:46.000 Clay Newcomb just did a bear grease episode about a guy, a poacher, and he interviews the guy at length, and this guy played softball on an army base, they had like an athletic complex, And a couple times he sees this giant buck,

00:46:02.000 and people were aware of this giant buck.

00:46:04.000 And he was trying to figure out if it was possible to kill it, as he calls it, kill it right or kill it legal.

00:46:09.000 And one day he just happens to have his bow in his car and sees it, not anywhere he's supposed to hunt.

00:46:16.000 And the way he describes it, he describes it like he was out of his body.

00:46:23.000 And he shoots it.

00:46:25.000 And the minute it falls over, he thinks, you'll never get away with this.

00:46:28.000 God.

00:46:29.000 Where was he?

00:46:30.000 Not only lost...

00:46:31.000 I think he's in Missouri.

00:46:32.000 Yeah, Missouri.

00:46:33.000 So was he in the wrong unit?

00:46:34.000 He was on a military base where you can't hunt.

00:46:39.000 Oh, wow.

00:46:40.000 And not only losing your mind as you're drawn back, he lost his mind in the whole thing.

00:46:49.000 Getting his bow out of his thing and kills the buck. 0.95

00:46:53.000 And then the minute he kills it, it occurs to what he's done. 0.91

00:46:58.000 So what did he do?

00:47:00.000 It's a whole episode.

00:47:01.000 It's two episodes about just horrible.

00:47:04.000 Wow.

00:47:04.000 I mean, you gotta walk a real fine line.

00:47:07.000 I mean, he did like, as he admits, you know, I mean, he did a criminal act.

00:47:12.000 And it's not like sympathetic of the criminal act, but it winds up being a story of the unraveling of someone's life about just...

00:47:20.000 A mistake, but being that sort of lust for that animal.

00:47:25.000 Right.

00:47:25.000 I guess we should be thankful that Derek Wolfe never saw Tom Brady out of pizza then.

00:47:31.000 You know what I mean? 0.62

00:47:32.000 Could just frickin' light him up, sack him. 0.95

00:47:35.000 Yeah, right. 0.95

00:47:36.000 I got him!

00:47:37.000 I got him!

00:47:38.000 Imagine that.

00:47:38.000 What are you doing?

00:47:38.000 He's just lying in front of you at Burger King.

00:47:40.000 You just fuckin' go for it. 0.99

00:47:42.000 I lost my mind. 0.99

00:47:44.000 It was Tom Brady. 0.99

00:47:45.000 I just fuckin'... 0.99

00:47:46.000 I don't know, I've just been programmed to tackle him. 0.99

00:47:50.000 Yeah.

00:47:50.000 No, but that...

00:47:51.000 I think...

00:47:52.000 I was thinking back, too, on...

00:47:53.000 You said when you're not ready for it.

00:47:56.000 My first two years...

00:47:57.000 My first year bow hunting, my first year rifle hunting.

00:47:59.000 I was 15 when I was rifle hunting.

00:48:01.000 We did this drive.

00:48:02.000 We used to do drives, right?

00:48:03.000 Oh, hell yeah.

00:48:04.000 Not really hitting pans.

00:48:04.000 I'll talk drives with you all night, man.

00:48:06.000 Yeah.

00:48:06.000 Not really hitting pans, but not far from it.

00:48:08.000 So you send the guys and then put whoever the shooters on the stand.

00:48:13.000 Can I ask you real quick?

00:48:14.000 Did you call them?

00:48:14.000 What were the names you used?

00:48:16.000 We debate this all the time.

00:48:17.000 What?

00:48:18.000 Who was, okay, what were the terms you used?

00:48:21.000 Pushers, sitters? 0.99

00:48:23.000 Yeah, that was it.

00:48:24.000 Okay, use pushers and sitters. 1.00

00:48:25.000 It's very regional.

00:48:26.000 Or on the stand.

00:48:27.000 Oh, on the stand?

00:48:28.000 Yeah, you're on the stand and then we're pushing to you.

00:48:31.000 Okay, yeah.

00:48:32.000 So I was there, had this, let's see, 300 Savage, just old gun, 15 years old, doing the push.

00:48:41.000 Okay, go here.

00:48:41.000 I didn't even know if I was in the right spot.

00:48:43.000 I'm just like, God, I'm by myself.

00:48:45.000 Just don't know anything.

00:48:47.000 And then all of a sudden I look up and here's this buck.

00:48:49.000 Boom! 0.99

00:48:51.000 Giant mule deer.

00:48:52.000 I don't even know how big it was, but it looked...

00:48:53.000 And I was just like...

00:48:58.000 No clue.

00:48:59.000 I don't know.

00:49:00.000 I never, probably never saw it in the scope.

00:49:02.000 It was like, probably seemed like from me to you.

00:49:05.000 And I was just like, had no idea what happened. 0.98

00:49:07.000 Was I prepared to kill that buck? 0.99

00:49:09.000 Hell no. 0.99

00:49:10.000 So I killed a spike buck like the next day, right? 0.87

00:49:13.000 And that's how it works.

00:49:15.000 You're not ready for a giant.

00:49:16.000 Right.

00:49:17.000 Then same thing with bow hunting.

00:49:19.000 First day bow hunting, this giant bull comes out 7x6 Roosevelt.

00:49:23.000 First day, I'm like, I'm kneeling in this logging road.

00:49:27.000 Felt like my arms were asleep.

00:49:28.000 They're tingling.

00:49:29.000 I'm like, I didn't know if I could draw this bow back.

00:49:32.000 He's broadside, head to the right, butt to the left. 0.99

00:49:36.000 And I shoot at, he's like right at 40 yards, and I miss behind his butt. 0.99

00:49:41.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:49:41.000 So I'm off like six feet at 40 yards and then end up killing a spike bull. 0.99

00:49:47.000 So you're just not ready for the giant, you know?

00:49:52.000 But that's where I think Joel Turner comes into play.

00:49:54.000 I don't know if he could have helped me.

00:49:56.000 I don't know if he could have helped.

00:49:58.000 At that time...

00:49:59.000 He'd have been like, give me that bow.

00:50:01.000 Yeah.

00:50:02.000 It probably wouldn't...

00:50:04.000 You probably weren't totally ready for that at that moment.

00:50:06.000 But if you have a certain level of proficiency and a certain amount of experience in mitigating high-pressure situations, then I think you could get through it.

00:50:16.000 I've been teaching a lot of people to shoot a bow for the first time on the Lift Run Shoot show that I do.

00:50:22.000 Joel Turner isn't going to tell them anything.

00:50:25.000 There's so many basics you have to get before that.

00:50:28.000 But as you said, once you get that routine down and you're kind of more seasoned, then I think that closed loop, open loop, then that would make more sense.

00:50:37.000 It was so attractive to me when I first started shooting a bow.

00:50:41.000 I was like, God, there are so many.

00:50:43.000 You get lost in this.

00:50:45.000 There's so much going on just in your yard when you're shooting at a target.

00:50:51.000 There's so much mental and physical, and there's so many things that have to align.

00:50:57.000 I have a checklist that I have on my phone That before I go hunting, like when I'm on the plane flying to wherever I'm going, I look at my notes on my phone and I go over my checklist and I bounce it around in my head.

00:51:10.000 Look at your process stuff.

00:51:10.000 Yeah, I have a shot process.

00:51:11.000 Not like boots, socks.

00:51:13.000 No, no, no, no.

00:51:14.000 I got all that.

00:51:15.000 That I'm terrible with too.

00:51:17.000 I just stuff everything in there.

00:51:18.000 I'm like, I think I got it all in there.

00:51:20.000 I really need to organize it.

00:51:21.000 Like if I was going to go on like one of those- And you take way more than you need.

00:51:24.000 If I was going to go on one of those backpacking mountain hunts where you're carrying your whole camp on your back and you're walking in for fucking 20 miles, I'd be the guy that has the 80-pound pack because I threw in extra batteries and extra broadheads in case this happens.

00:51:38.000 Hiding stuff in the bushes on your way up. 0.74

00:51:40.000 Two knives just in case.

00:51:42.000 Meanwhile, Adam Greentree has been doing it forever. 1.00

00:51:44.000 That motherfucker saws his toothbrushes in half to cut weight. 1.00

00:51:48.000 He's got it down to a science. 1.00

00:51:49.000 You would do that one time.

00:51:50.000 One time.

00:51:51.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:51:52.000 That's how you learn that.

00:51:53.000 Everybody's learned that. 0.98

00:51:55.000 So my process for packing is just fucking shove it all in there. 0.95

00:51:59.000 And mostly, likely, I always have two range finders and two binos in case I drop something. 0.94

00:52:04.000 And, you know, remember that time we were hunting in Canada and I broke my rest?

00:52:08.000 My rest snapped.

00:52:09.000 But I had a whisper cure biscuit.

00:52:11.000 I was ready.

00:52:12.000 I was like, aha!

00:52:13.000 Yeah, that's good.

00:52:14.000 He was being obsessive out there with his rest, just like wrenching on it for hours and changing and doing all this and end up stripping something out because he's like got too crazy on the rest. 0.93

00:52:23.000 Well, it was fucking up on me. 0.99

00:52:25.000 It was fucking up. 0.98

00:52:26.000 The rest wasn't dropping all the way, so like my arrow was catching it, like the fletchings were catching. 0.99

00:52:32.000 I'm like, what the fuck is going on? 0.88

00:52:34.000 And then I was like, oh, look at my rest. 0.97

00:52:36.000 It's like slightly up above the riser. 0.99

00:52:38.000 I'm like, God damn it, so I'm fucking getting in here. 0.99

00:52:41.000 And they, boing! 0.99

00:52:42.000 Oh, no!

00:52:44.000 Oh, no! 0.99

00:52:45.000 But whisker biscuits, man, I know they take a couple of seconds away from your fee percent, but boy, are those fucking easy to tune. 0.93

00:52:52.000 Oh, yeah, it's a lot less little stuff to go wrong, for sure. 0.98

00:52:56.000 High-level hunters still use whisker biscuits just because they don't want to fuck around with anything. 0.98

00:53:01.000 For that hunt, it's perfect. 0.98

00:53:03.000 You're going to be shooting at 10 or 20 yards.

00:53:05.000 Or a whitetail hunter, they're shooting at 20 yards.

00:53:09.000 So if you're going to be shooting long distance, a fletch going through with all that contact through the whisker, basically, that's going to impact long distance.

00:53:17.000 Well, apparently it really impacts it when you have helical.

00:53:21.000 Yeah.

00:53:22.000 Right?

00:53:22.000 So if you have straight...

00:53:24.000 So helical, for people that are listening, there's an angle that the fletchings are placed in that accentuates the spinning of the arrow, which makes it more accurate and, you know, that's what you want, right?

00:53:37.000 So some people don't use that.

00:53:40.000 They just have straight up and down fletchings, which is still good.

00:53:43.000 You know, you can still shoot very accurately with straight up and down fletchings, but most, like, really good archers prefer a helical.

00:53:49.000 Like, you have a helical.

00:53:50.000 Yeah, give a little direction to that energy so the arrow won't plane.

00:53:54.000 But that whisker biscuit accelerates that spin, makes it immediate.

00:53:57.000 Well, it fucks up the fletchings because it's twisting as it's going through all those hairs.

00:54:04.000 Whereas if you have a straight fletching, it's just going to pass through.

00:54:08.000 It only takes a few feet.

00:54:09.000 Tim Burnett still hunts with a whisker biscuit.

00:54:11.000 I was watching one of his YouTube videos. 0.99

00:54:13.000 I mean, that guy's fucking killed everything. 0.99

00:54:14.000 He's been around forever. 0.99

00:54:15.000 You know, Solo Hunter, you know, Remy's buddy.

00:54:18.000 And, you know, he's a really good hunter.

00:54:20.000 And he uses a whisker biscuit.

00:54:21.000 And I was like, this is crazy.

00:54:22.000 I mean, maybe he's only using it on this one video that I saw.

00:54:25.000 But I was like, there's a lot of people that just go, I want to cut. 0.95

00:54:27.000 Just like a lot of people don't fuck with mechanicals. 0.95

00:54:29.000 Like, there's too many things that can go wrong. 1.00

00:54:31.000 I'm not going to fuck around with it. 0.98

00:54:32.000 The last thing I did with mine is I put it on my fishbow, but it won't float a fiberglass arrow, I realized. 0.99

00:54:38.000 Too heavy.

00:54:39.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:54:40.000 I was like, man, this is going to be genius for fish hunting.

00:54:42.000 But the arrow just goes...

00:54:44.000 Right through it.

00:54:47.000 That looks like a lot of fun, bow hunting for fish.

00:54:49.000 I love it, man.

00:54:50.000 The problem is...

00:54:56.000 You just get limited to a fish that aren't...

00:54:58.000 You get limited in the U.S. You get limited to a lot of fish species that are not as desirable.

00:55:04.000 Right.

00:55:04.000 Like gar and carp and stuff like that.

00:55:07.000 Down in South America, you're hunting the best of the best fish.

00:55:10.000 Yeah.

00:55:11.000 With a bow?

00:55:12.000 Yeah.

00:55:13.000 Oh.

00:55:13.000 But you're hunting the most coveted food fish, which is fun.

00:55:18.000 Because, I mean, how many carp do you want?

00:55:20.000 We used to do it when we were kids, man.

00:55:21.000 We'd shoot all kinds of carp, but...

00:55:25.000 Isn't it wild that Carper prized in Europe?

00:55:28.000 It doesn't make any sense.

00:55:29.000 I shouldn't say it doesn't make any sense that they didn't, but I don't know where we went.

00:55:34.000 I don't know how we went so wrong.

00:55:35.000 Yeah, it's weird, right?

00:55:36.000 They put them all over, thinking everybody's going to eat them all the time, just to not take off.

00:55:41.000 Well, they ruin lakes.

00:55:42.000 Where I live on Lake Austin, there's a buddy of mine who's one of my neighbors who's a fisherman, and he said, man, you should have been here before they brought carp.

00:55:51.000 He goes, there's all sorts of vegetation in here, and the bass were everywhere.

00:55:55.000 But now, he goes, if you can get a camera and look at the bottom of this lake, it looks like the bottom of a swimming pool. 0.99

00:56:00.000 There's fucking nothing there. 0.99

00:56:02.000 Terrible, man. 0.99

00:56:02.000 But the fact that it was intentional. 0.99

00:56:04.000 There's so many non-native, there's so many invasive species that were unintentional, but the fact that for the most part, The common carp was they were doing everybody a favor.

00:56:14.000 I think they thought they were doing a favor for rich people on Lake Austin.

00:56:18.000 Because I think they wanted people to have less vegetation so they could take their boats out.

00:56:22.000 Got it.

00:56:23.000 That's what I think.

00:56:24.000 And that's what he thinks, too.

00:56:25.000 I mean, I got this from him.

00:56:26.000 He was like, I think they just wanted to clean up the vegetation because it was unsightly. 0.98

00:56:30.000 And they fucked this place up. 0.73

00:56:31.000 Because he was on a boat, and when I met him, he was casting under my dock. 0.96

00:56:37.000 And I went out there, and I was like, what's going on, man?

00:56:39.000 You weren't yelling at him?

00:56:40.000 No.

00:56:41.000 I've seen that on your show.

00:56:43.000 No, I like it.

00:56:45.000 When I see those guys, they're always a little nervous.

00:56:48.000 So I was like, how you doing, man?

00:56:49.000 Oh, man, this guy's going to yell at me.

00:56:51.000 I was telling this guy the other day that there's this four-pound bass that lives underneath my dock.

00:56:56.000 I go, hey, man, that's a pretty good bass that lives underneath the dock.

00:56:58.000 And he's like, really?

00:56:59.000 I go, yeah, go ahead and fish it, man.

00:57:01.000 I started talking to him.

00:57:03.000 But this is my friend Alan, shout out to Alan, who's my neighbor.

00:57:06.000 He catches, all he catches is big bass.

00:57:08.000 He goes, I don't even try. 1.00

00:57:09.000 He uses a big ass fucking Rapala. 1.00

00:57:11.000 He has like one of those jointed Rapalas and it's like fucking six inches long. 1.00

00:57:16.000 He's like, I don't even fuck around. 0.99

00:57:17.000 He goes, I just want big bass. 0.99

00:57:19.000 Because there's like 15, 16 pound bass in that lake.

00:57:22.000 And so he catches some big ones.

00:57:24.000 He sends me some whoppers.

00:57:26.000 Defenders, the eight year effort to bring vegetation back to Lake Austin.

00:57:30.000 Yeah, that's it. 0.99

00:57:32.000 Yeah, they fucked it up. 0.99

00:57:34.000 They fucked it up. 0.93

00:57:35.000 There's still good bass there. 0.91

00:57:38.000 Let me show you what Alan catches. 1.00

00:57:39.000 He's catching some big ass fucking bass. 0.99

00:57:41.000 We used to... 0.99

00:57:43.000 Me and Roy used to be addicted to carp hunting because we'd go...

00:57:47.000 They'd be spawning in the spring after we poured concrete.

00:57:50.000 He had a construction company.

00:57:52.000 We'd pour concrete, then we'd go and go try to get carp for bear bait.

00:57:55.000 So before they outlawed it in 94 in Oregon, we'd get carp, catch these giant carp, have a wheelbarrow, get them all back.

00:58:04.000 Put them in a, like a 55 gallon drum, put the lid on it, and then we'd make stink.

00:58:09.000 So we'd call, we needed some stink to get the bear bait going.

00:58:12.000 Because if you got that rotten carp in a gunny sack, and you put it way up a tree where they couldn't get it, that stink smell would go for five miles down the draw and then all the bear would come in, right?

00:58:24.000 I just remember this one time we had a bunch of carp and 55-gallon drum.

00:58:28.000 After a while, that kind of builds pressure.

00:58:30.000 We weren't really thinking about this.

00:58:33.000 So we go to take that lid off and it freaking explodes. 0.99

00:58:38.000 And this shit smells so, I mean, maggots. 0.99

00:58:43.000 Carps, rotten carp, exploded all over us. 1.00

00:58:46.000 Have you ever seen those videos of when whales explode on beaches?

00:58:50.000 Yeah, well, I've seen them when they blow them up.

00:58:52.000 This is when Alan just caught this in front of my house the other day.

00:58:54.000 God dang, that's giant.

00:58:56.000 Yeah, he catches some big-ass bass.

00:58:58.000 That's a real nice fish, man.

00:58:59.000 That'd get me interested in bass fishing.

00:59:02.000 Yeah, he catches a lot.

00:59:03.000 Here's another one he just got.

00:59:04.000 Whenever he catches one, he sends it to me.

00:59:07.000 We're homies now.

00:59:08.000 Those are a big fit.

00:59:09.000 But yeah, the weird thing is the dock thing.

00:59:11.000 I encourage it.

00:59:12.000 I'm happy when I see people.

00:59:14.000 I love all manner of outdoor activities.

00:59:16.000 I would never want someone to not fish near my dock. 1.00

00:59:19.000 That's so stupid. 1.00

00:59:20.000 Yeah, I think it's a repulsive behavior. 1.00

00:59:23.000 It's repulsive.

00:59:24.000 Yeah, it's not your...

00:59:25.000 It's a dock.

00:59:27.000 Let people fish.

00:59:28.000 You should talk to them.

00:59:29.000 They're your friends.

00:59:30.000 They're like, wouldn't you do it?

00:59:31.000 If you didn't have a dock and there was a dock and you knew the fish hang out under the dock, wouldn't you fish there?

00:59:36.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:59:37.000 What the fuck is wrong with you? 0.99

00:59:38.000 Yeah, or it's like, well, you're going to have to move your dock because there's a fish under there that I'm not going to fish for. 0.99

00:59:45.000 But this is the situation where that's where they go.

00:59:50.000 They go where it's shade.

00:59:51.000 They go where they can ambush. 0.96

00:59:52.000 And they all go under docks and, you know, hanging trees and anything they can get because they fucked it up with carp.

00:59:59.000 Yeah.

01:00:00.000 I was living in Seattle for a while and we would fish smallmouth and perch and stuff in Lake Washington, which is like right downtown.

01:00:09.000 And I was in this neighborhood where they have these apartment buildings that are on pilings.

01:00:14.000 So there's just full-on apartment buildings out over the water built on piers.

01:00:20.000 And they would cast shadows, and fish would collect there, and you'd be in a boat, man.

01:00:27.000 Besides being out in some dude's front yard under their dock, you're fishing where you're right here almost looking into the window of someone eating breakfast, but you're cast right there, which felt much more intimate and kind of creepy.

01:00:43.000 Yeah.

01:00:44.000 That's weird.

01:00:45.000 That felt weird.

01:00:46.000 Weirder than, you know, like I said, where you got a house, then a yard, then a dock.

01:00:50.000 Like, that's not weird.

01:00:51.000 But you could get where you could basically, like, awkwardly wave at someone in their bathroom while you're trying to fish.

01:00:58.000 Yeah, just don't make eye contact. 0.99

01:01:00.000 Sitting there taking a shit, looking out the window. 0.98

01:01:03.000 Yeah, the dock thing is a weird one, man. 1.00

01:01:08.000 It's a weird one because I get it if you're not a fisherman and you're just some asshole that just doesn't want anybody near your house. 0.98

01:01:14.000 What they're going to tell you, what they always tell you, is that some guy's going to take a lead head jig and chip the paint. 0.98

01:01:21.000 Chip the paint on the boat, ding the dock.

01:01:25.000 That's their claim.

01:01:26.000 Okay.

01:01:27.000 Is that they're going to whack your stuff with a lead head jig.

01:01:31.000 I feel like that's the same as if you're driving off-road and you're worried about pebbles. 0.99

01:01:36.000 We've got to get these fucking pebbles out of here. 0.99

01:01:39.000 You're driving off-road. 0.99

01:01:40.000 Yeah, be like, well, don't put your stuff out over the public water.

01:01:44.000 Yeah, and what are you doing?

01:01:45.000 A boat's not a car, man.

01:01:47.000 Like, it's a boat.

01:01:48.000 It's supposed to get scratched up a little.

01:01:49.000 You don't want your boat scratched up a little?

01:01:51.000 Some people don't, no. 0.99

01:01:53.000 What the fuck? 1.00

01:01:54.000 I don't get it. 1.00

01:01:55.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:01:58.000 If you're on a ranch and you've got those stripes down the side of your truck...

01:02:03.000 Arizona pinstripes.

01:02:05.000 That's kind of cool.

01:02:06.000 You break it in.

01:02:07.000 That's what you do when it's new.

01:02:08.000 You kind of want that.

01:02:10.000 I kind of want that. 0.99

01:02:12.000 I like a car that's been fucking used. 0.98

01:02:15.000 Well, you have 20 cars. 0.99

01:02:17.000 I do.

01:02:18.000 Even if I didn't.

01:02:19.000 I'm pretty sure that's how I'd think.

01:02:22.000 I was thinking about your shot.

01:02:25.000 You know why I think that That helps when you do the elbow because when you get that elbow right, you're pulling hard against that back wall.

01:02:32.000 A lot of people creep on their shot.

01:02:35.000 They'll aim and everything's going good.

01:02:38.000 They're pulling hard.

01:02:39.000 And then as they're aiming, they're kind of relaxing.

01:02:42.000 And then that cam is kind of rolling over.

01:02:44.000 It's called creeping.

01:02:46.000 That'll throw off your shot.

01:02:47.000 So I think when you think of that elbow consciously, it makes you think of pulling hard against that wall, which that's where the bow performs best.

01:02:53.000 Kyle Douglas pulls so hard that he's made bows break.

01:02:57.000 He's broken bows.

01:02:58.000 Like pulling into the back wall.

01:03:01.000 I never thought about what you're saying, but it makes good sense.

01:03:03.000 I think that's why it helps you.

01:03:05.000 Kyle Douglas, who's one of the best of the best archers.

01:03:09.000 Yeah, it changed my shot quite a bit when I started pulling really hard against the wall.

01:03:14.000 Really hard. 0.99

01:03:15.000 You know, I pull fucking hard. 0.99

01:03:17.000 I have that locked in. 0.97

01:03:18.000 And it also changed when I stopped using a resistance attention release.

01:03:23.000 Because Dudley had me on what's called a silverback.

01:03:27.000 Which is, I think, one of the best methods for learning how to shoot, because you have a safety.

01:03:32.000 You pull, and then it's all tension-based.

01:03:34.000 So when you have the safety on, you can pull it hard, and then when you release the safety, you just pull a little more, and it goes off.

01:03:42.000 And you can set it to like two, three pounds, whatever the amount of difference.

01:03:46.000 Say if you have a 70-pound bow.

01:03:48.000 You set it to 72 pounds or whatever it is when you're at a full draw, whatever the drop-off is.

01:03:56.000 So they have this resistance setting where you can tweak it in your yard at like five yards or you're right in front of the target and you get it to the point where it's at the back wall and then you just pull a little more and it snaps and breaks.

01:04:09.000 And it makes for a perfect release and I used that forever.

01:04:11.000 But then when I really started pulling hard in the back wall, I was making it go off When I didn't want it to go off and then when I switched releases then I'm like oh that's definitely the most because you're much more steady when you're like when I'm fucking locked out I'm locked out like I'm engaged in my back when I'm shooting at something I am everything is locked out you know and I find that to be way more stable.

01:04:35.000 Is your front elbow locked out?

01:04:37.000 My front elbow is locked out.

01:04:39.000 Norm?

01:04:39.000 Yeah.

01:04:39.000 I mean...

01:04:40.000 I used to bend it.

01:04:41.000 I used to bend it a little.

01:04:42.000 But then I was listening to this one guy and he said, if you were going to lean against something and want to be totally stable, wouldn't you lock your arm out if you're leaning against a wall and you want it to be completely rigid?

01:04:52.000 I was like, oh, that makes total sense.

01:04:54.000 No, that's...

01:04:55.000 When you want strength, it's bent.

01:04:58.000 Like, if you fall...

01:04:59.000 You're not falling like this.

01:05:01.000 Mm-hmm.

01:05:01.000 You're falling.

01:05:02.000 Right.

01:05:02.000 Yeah, but when you're, like, benching, like, when you have strength like that, it's not locked out, though.

01:05:07.000 You're stronger.

01:05:08.000 Yeah, I think it's trying to push your...

01:05:09.000 Right.

01:05:09.000 When your buddy's car gets stuck and you're trying to help him push, you're not locked out.

01:05:13.000 Right, but that's strength.

01:05:15.000 I'm not looking for strength.

01:05:16.000 I'm looking for stability.

01:05:17.000 Yeah.

01:05:18.000 I mean, I have plenty of strength.

01:05:19.000 The strength is not the issue.

01:05:20.000 The thing is, for me, is if I'm locked out, that's less movement.

01:05:24.000 Mm-hmm.

01:05:24.000 I'm completely lost.

01:05:25.000 I mean, I'm not saying, you know, I'm anything but a competitive archer, but yeah, I've never heard that in my life.

01:05:33.000 Dudley doesn't agree with it.

01:05:34.000 Most, like, I just, I know this, well, I shoot with it bent.

01:05:38.000 We teach everybody to have it a little bit bent, but Wayne always references this poster of these premier Hoyt shooters, and they all have the exact same form, and they're all slightly bent.

01:05:50.000 Yeah.

01:05:51.000 Oh, man.

01:05:52.000 I find myself better when I'm locked out.

01:05:54.000 Hey, listen. 0.99

01:05:55.000 The thing is, if it works for you, who gives a fuck what anybody else says? 0.99

01:05:59.000 Because everybody says, I anchor wrong with my thumb behind my neck. 0.99

01:06:02.000 So it's like, you know, whatever.

01:06:05.000 That doesn't make any sense to me.

01:06:06.000 If the arrow's going where it's supposed to...

01:06:10.000 The problem with the thumb behind the neck makes no sense to me.

01:06:13.000 That seems to me to be way better.

01:06:15.000 Because if you're anchored behind your neck, that's one more part of contact, and that's one more thing that's locked in.

01:06:20.000 You're like completely rigid.

01:06:22.000 That thumb only has that much give, and then it's behind your neck.

01:06:25.000 I would do it if my neck wasn't so big.

01:06:26.000 I keep needing to see what all this is.

01:06:29.000 I can see.

01:06:29.000 That doesn't seem crazy.

01:06:30.000 No, no.

01:06:31.000 Well, you see Cam do it? 1.00

01:06:32.000 Cam, he gets his fucking thumb behind his head. 1.00

01:06:35.000 And the reason why... 1.00

01:06:36.000 And your thumb's looking for a little spot, probably, too, right?

01:06:38.000 Yeah.

01:06:39.000 Kinda, yeah.

01:06:39.000 Now I just...

01:06:40.000 You know where it's at.

01:06:40.000 I don't even think about it.

01:06:41.000 But how it used to be back in the day when we started, everybody...

01:06:46.000 Like, there was 30-inch bows, 29-inch bows, and that's about it, draw length.

01:06:51.000 So mine, 27 and a half.

01:06:53.000 I just had, like, a bow that was way too long.

01:06:55.000 So I'm just like this, and that's where it started.

01:06:58.000 Oh, you're just looking for something.

01:06:59.000 I'm like, God, I'm trying to, like, just hold it.

01:07:02.000 A lot of guys do that behind the neck, and they'll tell you not to do it.

01:07:04.000 I do not understand the logic of don't do it.

01:07:06.000 We started because the bow, the draw length thing, people weren't really fitting bows to the shooter at that time.

01:07:12.000 It was just like, here's the bow, here's what we got, good luck.

01:07:15.000 And that's what we do.

01:07:16.000 Or it's like your brother's bow or whatever.

01:07:18.000 Yeah, somebody gave it to you.

01:07:20.000 It's funny, hearkening back to the old days, I just had Waddell on the show, so me, Wayne, and Waddell were shooting at the Bow Rack, and we all have still trigger releases.

01:07:31.000 You know, nowadays the cool thing is the handheld, right?

01:07:34.000 Right.

01:07:34.000 But we're all old school, still shooting, you know, like my Spog.

01:07:39.000 Index finger.

01:07:39.000 Wise guy, just a trigger release like that.

01:07:41.000 And we were shooting pretty dang good.

01:07:43.000 We had a shooting contest all in the X's.

01:07:46.000 And I said, let's get a picture of these releases, because it's Kind of a novelty now.

01:07:50.000 It's like just the old guys shoot those. 0.99

01:07:52.000 Well, there's still real good competitive archers like Gillingham.

01:07:56.000 Gillingham is one of the greatest of all time, and he uses a trigger, you know?

01:07:59.000 And he'll tell you, and the way he says it, he goes, this thing about target panic, he goes, it's all just a mental weakness.

01:08:07.000 He's like, when you're looking at a target, I mean, obviously he's like one of the best of the best.

01:08:11.000 It's a different animal.

01:08:12.000 But he's like, when you're looking at a target, if you're practicing in your yard, you can do it, right?

01:08:17.000 You can hit it and not flinch.

01:08:19.000 He's like, it's a mental weakness.

01:08:20.000 That's all it is.

01:08:21.000 And he's like, I prefer to command fire.

01:08:23.000 He goes, I know when that pin is over that target and I can stay steady and let it go.

01:08:28.000 But he's got all kinds of wild, wacky releases. 0.92

01:08:31.000 He's always tinkering with shit, so he has weird releases that are like six inches long and then you're leaning forward and pulling. 0.98

01:08:37.000 He gets it in his head. 0.99

01:08:39.000 Modern stuff.

01:08:40.000 Yeah, modern stuff, but he adjusts his stuff.

01:08:42.000 He's got some weird ones, man, where you look at the extended releases.

01:08:46.000 He's got a lot of wacky...

01:08:48.000 I wouldn't want to emulate it unless you were him. 0.98

01:08:51.000 He's also a fucking giant 6'6 dude, and he's got crazy long... 0.98

01:08:57.000 He's shot so much, he has a crease in his nose. 0.99

01:09:01.000 I swear to God, from the string.

01:09:04.000 That's good.

01:09:04.000 I know guys that wore a groove and their teeth cut fish line, you know?

01:09:07.000 Yeah, same thing.

01:09:09.000 He's got that, just where that string sits, it's like a crease.

01:09:13.000 Yeah.

01:09:13.000 Guy's shot a lot of arrows.

01:09:15.000 That's great.

01:09:16.000 I like a handheld, because I've been doing handhelds for so long, but when I'm here, I practice with your release.

01:09:21.000 In my range, I have the wise guy.

01:09:23.000 I think for hunting, I think it's an advantage.

01:09:25.000 I think for just...

01:09:27.000 Controlled situations where you got all day, I think the handheld's the way to go.

01:09:31.000 In an animal, you have to do command sometimes.

01:09:34.000 Oh, sometimes you do, yeah. 0.99

01:09:35.000 You have to punch the fuck out of that trigger. 1.00

01:09:37.000 I've killed a lot of animals doing it. 1.00

01:09:39.000 Yeah, sometimes, if you can keep it together. 0.92

01:09:41.000 There's moments where you're like, you gotta shoot now.

01:09:44.000 You can't wait for the hinge to break.

01:09:46.000 Right.

01:09:46.000 Yeah.

01:09:47.000 There's certain things, I remember taking one of those home and messing with it, and I had the same...

01:09:52.000 I had the same feeling I had when my nephew was trying to explain chess, like the game of chess to me, where I was like, that's pretty cool.

01:10:03.000 Realistically, I'm not going to, right?

01:10:06.000 I'm not going to figure this out.

01:10:08.000 I admire it.

01:10:09.000 And I took that attention thing out in my yard.

01:10:13.000 And after a couple minutes, I'm like, are you honestly?

01:10:16.000 I'm going back to checkers.

01:10:17.000 Are you honestly going to figure this out?

01:10:19.000 And I was like, at my age, as much as I shoot, I'm just not gonna. 0.98

01:10:24.000 And I went back and I just, so I shoot a trigger and I'll shoot that trigger until I'm dead. 0.90

01:10:29.000 You shoot the same trigger he does. 1.00

01:10:30.000 You shoot the wise guy. 0.95

01:10:31.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:10:32.000 That's a good one too because it's hot.

01:10:33.000 You're not yanking on it and pulling it and there's not a lot of weird movement. 1.00

01:10:37.000 When you touch that fucker, it's going off. 0.99

01:10:42.000 Yeah, there's a type of trap called a MB-750. 1.00

01:10:47.000 That release, it just seems like really nice little mechanical contraptions.

01:10:51.000 I just like it.

01:10:52.000 It's like you pull it.

01:10:53.000 It's so clean.

01:10:56.000 Well, I use a thumb trigger now.

01:10:58.000 I've been using a thumb trigger the last few years.

01:11:00.000 And I still use a hinge, too.

01:11:03.000 You know, I like a hinge, too.

01:11:04.000 Because there's something about a hinge where I hear that click, and I know, okay, here we go.

01:11:09.000 And that keeps me in the moment.

01:11:10.000 So I hear that, I pull, I hear that click, I'm like, okay, everything.

01:11:14.000 Keep the shot process going.

01:11:16.000 And then it goes off.

01:11:18.000 But the problem with that is when it's windy.

01:11:21.000 One of the things that I found, especially hunting at Tahon, you know how windy it gets up there in those canyons?

01:11:25.000 When you're trying to punch as it drifts over?

01:11:27.000 You can't do it.

01:11:28.000 You have to have a trigger.

01:11:29.000 You have to be able to control fire occasionally.

01:11:33.000 But it helps you to have that process of recognizing that a surprise shot is important.

01:11:39.000 At least an element of surprise where it's not like, now!

01:11:42.000 But it's like, just go to the...

01:11:44.000 With a thumb trigger, you can make it go off.

01:11:50.000 Yeah.

01:11:51.000 Yeah.

01:12:01.000 That's what happens to some people.

01:12:02.000 The mindfuck of target panic is crazy.

01:12:05.000 When you hear about people that can't get the pin on the target, they can hold like six inches under the target, but once they rise up to the target like, everything starts getting shaky.

01:12:16.000 My body wants to put that pin just to the left.

01:12:22.000 I don't know why, because I think I don't want to obstruct it.

01:12:25.000 Yeah, you want to see what you want to hit.

01:12:28.000 When I bring it up, like if I bring a crosshair on something, the crosshair is going to go, if I bring the pin up, it's going to want to sit just left so I can still look.

01:12:38.000 And then I got to go like, now I'm going to bring it over where it belongs.

01:12:40.000 You know what's the greatest thing of all time?

01:12:42.000 It has some problems, but it's the greatest thing of all time, and I know they're going to eventually work this out, is that Garmin release.

01:12:47.000 Do you saw that one that I was using last year?

01:12:49.000 The Sight.

01:12:49.000 I stopped using it because I had some problems ranging things, but damn it, when it works, it's a clear window with just a LED dot.

01:13:02.000 No obstruction. 0.95

01:13:03.000 Just like a red dot with a pistol. 1.00

01:13:04.000 It's fucking magic. 1.00

01:13:06.000 It's magic. 1.00

01:13:07.000 Because there's no obstruction.

01:13:09.000 You just put that pin right where it is.

01:13:10.000 You can see through the pin because it's an LED. It's amazing.

01:13:15.000 But it's just...

01:13:16.000 There's some problems with ranging, like when I'm in my yard and I'm at 74 yards.

01:13:21.000 I know it's 74 yards, but I'll put that pin on, I hit the button, and then it'll say 67, 85, 73. I'm like, what the fuck? 0.98

01:13:30.000 And I'm like, I can't have this mindfuck. 1.00

01:13:33.000 And so last year I stopped using it. 0.99

01:13:35.000 Oh, I stopped using it because when we went to Utah, they made it illegal.

01:13:39.000 So I hunted a full day with that release and luckily didn't shoot anything.

01:13:44.000 And then we went back and then Colton said, you know, I think that's illegal here now.

01:13:49.000 And I'm like, what?

01:13:50.000 I don't think you didn't hunt.

01:13:52.000 You just practiced.

01:13:53.000 Well, I definitely didn't shoot anything.

01:13:54.000 No.

01:13:55.000 But I did go out with it.

01:13:56.000 I didn't even go to full draw.

01:13:57.000 But I didn't go out with it.

01:13:59.000 Luckily, I found out. 0.60

01:14:00.000 I was thinking, imagine if you killed something.

01:14:03.000 And you did a photo with that.

01:14:04.000 And you didn't know.

01:14:05.000 Because the year before, I had shot my elk with that.

01:14:07.000 They changed it in April.

01:14:08.000 Yeah.

01:14:09.000 And it's just, you know, some little change in the law that...

01:14:13.000 Yeah, that I didn't know about.

01:14:14.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:14:14.000 It's a dumb change because it only makes it more effective. 0.95

01:14:17.000 And it's not easier. 0.97

01:14:19.000 It's just you're more ethical.

01:14:21.000 Yeah, but there's a...

01:14:22.000 I mean...

01:14:23.000 It's a rangefinder.

01:14:25.000 Yeah, but the states are going to have...

01:14:26.000 They have to try to play the technology game because they just have to.

01:14:32.000 I agree to a certain extent.

01:14:34.000 But if you're going to allow rangefinders, why do you allow rangefinders?

01:14:37.000 Because you don't want people guessing.

01:14:38.000 Well, there's a lot of guessing when you're gap pinning.

01:14:41.000 There's a lot of guessing.

01:14:42.000 When you range an animal at 50 yards and then he takes three or four steps, there's a lot of guessing.

01:14:48.000 And you're just going to hold high or you're going to do something.

01:14:50.000 With the Garmin, all you do is just press that button again and you get a new pin.

01:14:56.000 And it's perfect.

01:14:57.000 And the other thing about the Garmin that's really fantastic is If you can't range, like say if you're at 20 or you're at 40 yards and you range him and then he walks out and you're pretty sure it's like 50 or 60, you can also press a button and you get a full range of pins.

01:15:15.000 So you get 20, 30, you get 5 LED lights.

01:15:19.000 You know, instead of just one.

01:15:21.000 So there's an advantage of that too.

01:15:22.000 So if you're in a situation like we were at when we were rattling and the bucks just come running in and you know that's 20 yards or 30 yards, like you just pull it up and you got your pins.

01:15:31.000 And you can do that.

01:15:32.000 Or if you're at 60, like I shot the Neil guy, you can hold it and then you get a pin.

01:15:37.000 That's what it looks like. 0.99

01:15:39.000 It's the shit, but it just makes me nervous. 1.00

01:15:42.000 They're just trying to protect... 1.00

01:15:43.000 What they'll say is the primitive integrity of archery.

01:15:46.000 Yeah.

01:15:46.000 It's still pretty primitive.

01:15:47.000 You're still using a rangefinder.

01:15:49.000 Yeah.

01:15:49.000 It's just a rangefinder that's incorporated in your site.

01:15:50.000 But they're also trying to imagine where it's going, like...

01:15:54.000 You'll see some level of herky-jerkiness as they bring in regulations, as they try to get a sense of what's coming.

01:16:02.000 Because if you wait too long on certain technologies, you develop a user group, and then you develop a level of resistance.

01:16:10.000 Think, the second drones became a thing.

01:16:18.000 It was like immediate, like 13 states.

01:16:21.000 Nope.

01:16:22.000 And in the end, you kind of be like, well, why is it even on your mind?

01:16:26.000 In the end, if you look where it's gone, in the end, they made the right call.

01:16:30.000 In open country, they made the right call.

01:16:33.000 Other things I think that you might look and try to picture where it's headed and then maybe come back and correct.

01:16:41.000 There was a time, I remember the first time Montana came out with anything about two-way communications.

01:16:46.000 It was no two-way communications in the field the first year.

01:16:51.000 People are like, if I'm hunting with my 13-year-old and my 80-year-old dad, I can't give them a radio so that if they have a problem, they can get a hold of me?

01:17:00.000 And like, oh, yeah, I guess we didn't really mean that.

01:17:03.000 And in the next year, there's a modification.

01:17:05.000 In the next year, there's a modification as they try to gauge what's going on.

01:17:08.000 But I think that as technologies come in, there's a tendency to...

01:17:17.000 Right.

01:17:23.000 Right.

01:17:32.000 Or that every waterhole would have 50 different dudes that have trail cams over that water. 1.00

01:17:49.000 But you'll see a thing that doesn't entirely make too much sense.

01:17:53.000 I think that's part of the gamble and struggle of getting it right.

01:17:56.000 Another thing that I think is winning out is they used to say, well, you can't have dogs hunting deer, of course.

01:18:03.000 And then people have been like, but I want a recovery dog.

01:18:07.000 The dog doesn't do any good until I've already wounded the thing. 0.97

01:18:10.000 And once I've wounded it, why would you do anything to impede me getting it back?

01:18:15.000 And they kind of are settling in on a, yeah, you can't run deer with a dog in most states, but they're coming around to saying, but for recovery, you can track a wounded deer with a dog.

01:18:28.000 And so you have – there's a sort of compromise gets struck.

01:18:32.000 Right, or even a dead deer where you can't find it, like heavy timber.

01:18:36.000 Oh, yeah, that's where it's put.

01:18:38.000 In some states, you had to have it on a leash, but whatever.

01:18:41.000 But coming around being like, yeah, we meant – You can't hunt deer with a dog.

01:18:47.000 We didn't mean you shouldn't be able to find a wounded or dead deer with a dog, and then they make a gradual correction.

01:18:52.000 Well, that's also the first step they do to outlaw mountain lion hunting, right?

01:18:56.000 No mountain lion hunting with dogs.

01:18:58.000 Yeah, but that's coming from a completely different agenda.

01:19:03.000 Yes.

01:19:04.000 That's not trying to help hunters out.

01:19:06.000 That's trying to screw hunters. 0.97

01:19:08.000 Some of them I don't understand.

01:19:09.000 Like lighted knocks. 1.00

01:19:10.000 That, to me, is the dumbest one. 0.98

01:19:12.000 It's like, look, lighted knocks allow you to more clearly see your impact and find the arrow so you're not littering. 0.99

01:19:19.000 So instead of like an arrow just alone in the woods, you see that green light in the distance and you can find it.

01:19:26.000 That one doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

01:19:28.000 I wonder if someone, if in defining the legislation, there's a little bit of a, well, what else is going to be on an arrow that's electronic?

01:19:38.000 I don't know.

01:19:39.000 Well, they are doing something like that now where there's talk of Bluetooth technology.

01:19:44.000 They have that.

01:19:45.000 Yeah.

01:19:46.000 Is it utilized now?

01:19:48.000 Yeah, I mean, that's been out for years.

01:19:50.000 So you could find the arrow with an app? 0.99

01:19:52.000 And so what they would say that if somebody's just going to shoot an animal in the ass, just get an arrow stuck in it, then they'll find it. 0.99

01:20:02.000 So is it going to perpetuate shitty, unethical shots? 0.99

01:20:06.000 Like if I can just get a piece of it, I'm good. 0.83

01:20:09.000 Right, then I'll just track it.

01:20:10.000 Yeah, like a whale.

01:20:11.000 You know, like you put a harpoon in a whale.

01:20:13.000 Yeah, Oregon was...

01:20:15.000 Oregon was very late on allowing mechanical heads and lighted knocks.

01:20:19.000 I mean, it was just recently.

01:20:21.000 That's why I was like fixed blade forever because At home, I couldn't even shoot expandable.

01:20:27.000 So Oregon, Idaho, they were pretty late coming to the game on the electronics, because they call it a lighted, not an electronic.

01:20:33.000 And I still don't think Garmin sites are even legal in Oregon.

01:20:40.000 There's like 10 states where I think they're illegal, at least.

01:20:43.000 But Utah, it's interesting that they did it this year.

01:20:47.000 Yeah, I know.

01:20:48.000 They changed, but it might be to what Steve was alluding to.

01:20:51.000 It's like you try to course correct, or they didn't want to get too far down the road before they tried to come back, because that user group was established, and we'd been doing it, and now they fight back on that.

01:21:04.000 Yeah, I just think all it does is allow you to make more ethical shots.

01:21:08.000 That's all I think that a range-finding site does.

01:21:11.000 I mean, they could say that, well, rifle hunting is more ethical than bow hunting, so why do we need to bow hunt?

01:21:16.000 You know what I mean?

01:21:17.000 Right.

01:21:18.000 Well, you could also outlaw traditional bow hunting then, because that's just all guesswork.

01:21:21.000 A large part of it...

01:21:24.000 Cam already alluded to this.

01:21:26.000 A large part of it is a desire to protect archery seasons.

01:21:35.000 You can kind of hold them out as low harvest.

01:21:40.000 Limited efficacy, high-opportunity hunts, right?

01:21:46.000 And a state will run a bow season, and then the general firearm, and everybody gets down to the real serious business of killing.

01:21:54.000 And you can look at the archery harvest, and the archery harvest winds up in comparison being...

01:21:59.000 I don't want to say negligible, but in comparison, it's a blip in the harvest.

01:22:05.000 And so the desire to limit bringing in crossbows, certain technologies, be like, let's keep it simple, traditional, low-efficacy, low-harvest, and then allow for greater length of seasons and greater opportunity.

01:22:24.000 And if you get to, and I know it seems impossible, but if you...

01:22:29.000 Can you use technology to get it up where your harvest rates really start to spike, you're going to have the same thing you run into in other areas where you start being like, hey, we've got to limit the opportunity pool.

01:22:41.000 Because these guys are too good.

01:22:43.000 If you look at a general raw number, just generally an archery elk hunter has a 10% chance of success.

01:22:51.000 It fluctuates, but generally there's a 10% chance of success.

01:22:56.000 If that became 2030, You're going to pay for it somehow.

01:23:02.000 Right.

01:23:02.000 You know, you're going to pay for it somehow.

01:23:04.000 That's what, you know, a lot of detractors of archery will say.

01:23:08.000 And I don't want to say, I mentioned earlier that maybe you just eliminate bow hunting if you want to be, you know, more efficient with killing, just make a rifle.

01:23:16.000 I believe archery is just as deadly and just as ethical as rifle hunting.

01:23:22.000 I believe that that's the way to go.

01:23:24.000 It certainly is for you.

01:23:27.000 But the success rate is lower, to Steve's point.

01:23:32.000 And what the guys back home have said, the detractors of bowhunting, is that, and this could just be old boy talk, the bowhunters are killing all the big bulls.

01:23:42.000 I haven't heard that one.

01:23:44.000 They're rutting.

01:23:45.000 We can call them in. 0.89

01:23:46.000 We're getting prime rut time. 1.00

01:23:48.000 And you kind of get lulled into this trap, especially with social media, that you're thinking, God, is everybody killing a fucking giant bull? 0.99

01:23:56.000 Because that's what you see. 0.99

01:23:57.000 But now with these long-range shooters, man.

01:24:00.000 With a rifle, you mean?

01:24:01.000 Yeah.

01:24:01.000 These long-range rifle guys are taking 700, 800-yard shots, and they're really good at it.

01:24:07.000 You know what's crazy?

01:24:08.000 I don't even rifle hunt.

01:24:10.000 I mean...

01:24:11.000 I haven't rifle hunted since 89. You're missing out.

01:24:15.000 I took Kat Bradley, I know we talked about it before, to get her first buck in Oregon. 0.93

01:24:21.000 And so my buddy Kevin had this SIG gun.

01:24:24.000 She was going to shoot and it was all good.

01:24:25.000 But this other guy, he reminded me of, God, remember Mark Wahlberg in that movie where he was like this recluse, lived up in the mounds.

01:24:36.000 Not Boogie Nights.

01:24:37.000 No, not Boogie Nights.

01:24:40.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

01:24:41.000 Damn it. 1.00

01:24:42.000 Go on. 1.00

01:24:43.000 Good movie.

01:24:44.000 So they wanted...

01:24:45.000 Somebody was going to assassinate the president.

01:24:47.000 They tried to get him because he was this ballistic expert.

01:24:50.000 They wanted to get him to tell him where they'd kill him from.

01:24:52.000 Anyway, they...

01:24:53.000 Yeah, right here.

01:24:54.000 Shooter.

01:24:55.000 Shooter.

01:24:55.000 So, anyway, this guy down there where we took Kat reminded me of...

01:25:00.000 Mark...

01:25:00.000 No, not Mark.

01:25:01.000 This old guy he went to talk to that knew the history of...

01:25:03.000 Anyway, he had these guns set up in this steel out there at 990 yards.

01:25:10.000 And I can shoot, but I never shoot.

01:25:13.000 I haven't done it in years.

01:25:14.000 And I was just like...

01:25:15.000 I go, how far is that far one?

01:25:17.000 He's like, 990. And I'm like, what do you got here that'll shoot?

01:25:20.000 And so he had this fucking sweet setup, right? 0.99

01:25:23.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:25:24.000 Got up, set up, got there, first shot out of this gun, had the wind gauge up there, and I'm like, okay, the wind's going here, I'm going to hold on the left side of the steel, boom, 990 yards, first shot, smacked it. 0.99

01:25:39.000 And I'm like, I fucking never shoot! 0.98

01:25:42.000 I can hit this steel this big at 990 yards? 0.97

01:25:46.000 So, to your point about this long range thing, that's changing the game too.

01:25:51.000 Oh, yeah.

01:25:52.000 People want to talk about archeries evolving and getting too far ahead of ourselves.

01:25:56.000 God dang, these long-range rifle guys.

01:25:58.000 My kids can shoot steel at distances that we didn't know you—that when I was a kid, you didn't know you could shoot.

01:26:05.000 300 yards was a long way when I was— The farther shot you could take was across that cornfield.

01:26:10.000 Yeah.

01:26:11.000 300 yards.

01:26:12.000 If the corn was down.

01:26:13.000 You were like a great shooter if you could hit anything at 300. Yeah.

01:26:16.000 Oh, that was the...

01:26:18.000 Yeah.

01:26:19.000 Well, now everybody has shooting sticks and, you know, bipods and all sorts of different things that they used to set up to make them more stable or prone.

01:26:27.000 Oh, yeah.

01:26:28.000 I mean, a bipod wasn't even a thing when I started rifle hunting.

01:26:32.000 It was like, you had a sling.

01:26:35.000 You could put your arm in there a little bit, and that might help a little bit.

01:26:38.000 But you're offhand.

01:26:39.000 Offhand still.

01:26:40.000 Yeah.

01:26:41.000 So, I mean, when we kill Blacktail, it's like, if you get...

01:26:45.000 You don't want to be past 100. Can you imagine if they said with rifle hunting, no more prone shots?

01:26:52.000 Too easy?

01:26:53.000 No, I don't think they would...

01:26:54.000 They would approach it a different way.

01:26:56.000 They wouldn't approach it that way.

01:26:57.000 Well, they would start with bipods, right?

01:26:59.000 No.

01:26:59.000 If someone wanted to?

01:27:00.000 No, they would probably...

01:27:04.000 See, I hesitate to say anything, because I don't want to give anyone ideas, but if you were going to try to, like, I can't even think if you were going to try to regulate...

01:27:12.000 Well, I'll put it to you this way.

01:27:15.000 So, we have muzzleloader seasons, okay?

01:27:17.000 A lot of states have muzzleloader seasons, and just very generally, a state's big game hunt would go archery.

01:27:25.000 And then general firearm, and you go into late season muzzleloader.

01:27:28.000 And states will regulate muzzleloaders down to whether you have powder, so loose powder pellets.

01:27:40.000 They'll regulate it down to open sites or no open site.

01:27:45.000 They'll regulate it down to whether you have a projectile that's true to bore.

01:27:50.000 Or encase in a little casing called a Sabot.

01:27:56.000 What other kind of stuff do they throw at you?

01:27:58.000 Meaning they really nitpick your gear.

01:28:02.000 In some cases, they're like rifles now.

01:28:04.000 They'll regulate ignition systems.

01:28:07.000 In some cases, they break it down to completely primitive muzzleloaders.

01:28:09.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:28:12.000 So they do have the power...

01:28:16.000 Not the power, that's not the right word for it.

01:28:18.000 They do have the ability to come in and really nitpick your gear.

01:28:22.000 Right down to weird stuff that you could have people not even know what the hell you're talking about when you say true to bore projectile.

01:28:30.000 But that hasn't come into General Firearm.

01:28:36.000 And in fact, I can't really think of anything out there besides you can't use anything that projects light.

01:28:48.000 Like a laser.

01:28:50.000 Yeah.

01:28:51.000 You see regulations around projecting light.

01:28:56.000 And I think there's some regulations about the scope can't have electronics in it, meaning lighted reticles.

01:29:01.000 I think in some states you can't have lighted reticles.

01:29:03.000 But so far you haven't seen a real nitpicking of long-range rifle equipment.

01:29:09.000 I don't even know where you'd start, man.

01:29:12.000 That they would regulate the magnification, that they would somehow regulate laser rangefinders.

01:29:18.000 Imagine if they regulate distance.

01:29:19.000 Just so you can't shoot over blank distance?

01:29:21.000 Yeah.

01:29:22.000 I don't know.

01:29:23.000 It'd be a real puzzle if someone was tasked with figuring out how to rein in... 0.99

01:29:28.000 I would pay a lot of attention to that, because I guarantee whatever they come up with is shit I use. 0.99

01:29:34.000 In that case with shooting the 990, it reminded me of... 0.99

01:29:37.000 You do all the calculations on your phone.

01:29:39.000 And then you set the scope to whatever this says.

01:29:43.000 The scope has...

01:29:45.000 Not just magnification, but also like you're changing the zero of it.

01:29:49.000 So, but you're doing it based on the distance, based on the load, based on everything else that goes into the phone.

01:29:56.000 The wind was not the greatest because you could check the wind at the gun, but when you're a thousand yards, so that's why you needed that flag out there.

01:30:04.000 Right.

01:30:05.000 To set the scope to hold right on, that's all done on the phone on an app or something.

01:30:11.000 So, crazy.

01:30:12.000 Let's go back to talking about bow hunters killing all the big stuff.

01:30:15.000 Yeah, I know. 1.00

01:30:16.000 Those bastards. 1.00

01:30:18.000 I honestly haven't heard, I've heard everything, I haven't heard that. 1.00

01:30:21.000 I get it, the rut.

01:30:23.000 But again, it's, you know, social media, it makes it seem like, for anybody, that people are, everyone's successful, everyone's killing bulls, and it's just not the case.

01:30:34.000 It's just not, success rate is still 10% on bulls with a, well, not even just bulls, elk with a bow.

01:30:43.000 Well, social media has just fucked up our perceptions of everything.

01:30:46.000 Of people's bodies, of people's faces, filters, wealth.

01:30:50.000 But in September, God, it does seem like everybody's getting a big mega bull, don't it?

01:30:54.000 Well, there's so many people with Instagram accounts, and everybody can't wait to post those photos.

01:30:59.000 You know, when I asked what year that was, I've seen some graphs on hunting.

01:31:06.000 Oh, that, sorry.

01:31:07.000 Yeah, that buck.

01:31:08.000 And I see some graphs on hunting, and I, you know, We all get blamed for a lot of ills that probably we don't deserve in regard to hunting.

01:31:17.000 But I saw this graph talking about the hunters, you know, 50 years ago, there's this many hunters.

01:31:23.000 And right around 2015, I mean, it was plummeting.

01:31:29.000 On the graph I saw, the number of hunters was just going straight down.

01:31:34.000 And then I was trying to like, is that when you started coming in?

01:31:38.000 And we talk about hunting here, and then now it's, you know, maybe there's a little bit of an...

01:31:43.000 I know there's an uptick from where it was going, but I was thinking...

01:31:46.000 I think it's a downtick now, right?

01:31:48.000 Now it's a downtick.

01:31:49.000 Now, after the COVID, yeah, now it's going back down.

01:31:51.000 But if you look at the graph that I saw before you started talking about hunting, who knows where the hell would be?

01:31:59.000 If you follow that line down to where it was going...

01:32:02.000 There'd be no hunters from 2015 to 2024. It's like it was, I don't know where this graph was, but It's, I don't know.

01:32:13.000 Well, it just makes sense.

01:32:15.000 I mean, think about the amount of millions of people that have been exposed to talking about hunting now.

01:32:20.000 So it's not just, oh yeah, hunting's in a more healthy spot because we do need hunters to champion our cause, right?

01:32:29.000 But it's not just that, oh, that's good, but...

01:32:33.000 Imagine without that where we'd be.

01:32:35.000 I once saw a graph, it was a diagram or something, and it showed in Michigan.

01:32:45.000 Average age of fur trappers, people that held a fur harvester license, the average age every year of someone holding a fur harvester license actually went up one year.

01:32:57.000 No one knew.

01:32:59.000 It's like these same people, and they're just, you know.

01:33:03.000 I mean, how many new people are getting into trapping that have never trapped?

01:33:08.000 Some.

01:33:08.000 God, it's got to be small.

01:33:10.000 Not like it is when fur prices shoot up.

01:33:12.000 Right.

01:33:12.000 Yeah.

01:33:13.000 Well, that's different, right?

01:33:14.000 Yeah.

01:33:15.000 But no, it's super small, man.

01:33:16.000 No, it's super, super small.

01:33:18.000 And then anytime, yeah, fur prices skyrocket, then it brings people in.

01:33:22.000 If fur prices are low, it's just...

01:33:24.000 No one.

01:33:24.000 One of the things you told me once that blew me away was at one point in time the richest man in the country was a beaver trapper.

01:33:30.000 A beaver man, John Jacob Astor.

01:33:34.000 That's crazy.

01:33:35.000 That was the most precious commodity, was beavers.

01:33:40.000 I mean, you talked about Colorado.

01:33:42.000 Man, it's a crazy time right now because there is that measure out there.

01:33:47.000 I think it's a ballot measure.

01:33:50.000 It is.

01:33:51.000 They want to label lion hunting as trophy hunting.

01:33:58.000 And there's a guy there who's very passionate.

01:34:00.000 He's been doing a lot of good work.

01:34:01.000 His name is Dan Gates with Colorado for Responsible Wildlife Management.

01:34:06.000 For people listening who don't know what we're talking about, we should say mountain lion.

01:34:09.000 Mountain lion, yeah.

01:34:11.000 They say mountain lion, bobcat, and then lynx.

01:34:13.000 They throw in lynx, but you can't It's not even legal, but they love putting this trophy hunting moniker out there because it's really easy to hate trophy hunting, which isn't even legal. 0.97

01:34:26.000 I read this article from Colorado Sun or something like that, where they want to eliminate people who kill mountain lions and just go cut their head off. 0.99

01:34:37.000 Who fucking does that? 1.00

01:34:38.000 Nobody does that. 1.00

01:34:39.000 Nobody does that.

01:34:39.000 But people who don't know think, oh my god, that's despicable.

01:34:43.000 Let's outlaw this.

01:34:43.000 We need to serve them some outline.

01:34:45.000 Yeah, what the aim here is the attempt to create a legal term.

01:34:56.000 The attempt to create trophy hunting as a legal term.

01:35:00.000 When you have a ballot measure...

01:35:03.000 Both sides argue about the language.

01:35:06.000 Like, when voters go in, what are they going to read?

01:35:08.000 Obviously, you could write any ballot.

01:35:10.000 If you could just write the ballot initiative how you wanted it to, you'd win every time.

01:35:14.000 But people got to debate the wording.

01:35:16.000 That's what they did with the wolf thing.

01:35:18.000 Did you read the wolf thing?

01:35:20.000 I never actually read it.

01:35:21.000 I couldn't even tell what was for wolves and what wasn't. 0.99

01:35:25.000 It's like, what the fuck? 0.99

01:35:26.000 I don't even know which one I'm against. 0.99

01:35:28.000 It was like forcing, it was should the state, does the state need to implement a reintroduction or discovery effort or something like that?

01:35:41.000 And this is, they're trying to, the debate comes around to, can you say trophy hunting?

01:35:46.000 Yeah.

01:35:47.000 In a ballot measure.

01:36:12.000 I don't know.

01:36:31.000 Because there's no precedent.

01:36:32.000 They really don't understand like...

01:36:34.000 Oh, there's precedent.

01:36:35.000 Obviously with Montana, with Yellowstone.

01:36:38.000 Idaho's Frank Church, Yellowstone.

01:36:40.000 But long term, I mean, we've only been since the 1990s.

01:36:44.000 There's a reason why they eradicated wolves.

01:36:48.000 I don't agree with it, but when you have ranchers and you have all these people that they're living based entirely on the stock that they have...

01:36:57.000 And whether or not they make money enough to keep their farm running or not is depending upon how many animals they bring to market.

01:37:04.000 And then you have wolves?

01:37:06.000 And then you just bring in wolves?

01:37:07.000 Yeah, well, so there's a, if I got the tinfoil hat on, they want to eliminate hunting.

01:37:15.000 I mean, they want to eliminate hunting and ranching.

01:37:18.000 So they don't care about ranchers losing their animals.

01:37:20.000 They would love people just to be 100% consumers, relying on the government so they can control them.

01:37:27.000 They say, here's your food.

01:37:28.000 Here's what you're getting.

01:37:29.000 You're getting it from us.

01:37:30.000 You're not out there hunting it for yourself.

01:37:31.000 They hate hunters.

01:37:33.000 If I was thinking about, you know, the governor of Colorado, which is Polis, his husband, Is anti-hunting.

01:37:41.000 Yeah, he's an animal rights activist.

01:37:43.000 That's where all this is coming from.

01:37:44.000 But if you look at the bigger picture, hunters are usually capable, confident, they have a skill set.

01:37:59.000 You can't control people like that.

01:38:02.000 Government wants people they can control.

01:38:04.000 That'll be afraid when they're supposed to be afraid.

01:38:07.000 Wear this mask when we tell you. 0.99

01:38:08.000 Get this shot when we tell you.

01:38:10.000 You get your food from the store, here it is.

01:38:13.000 I think there's certainly an element of that.

01:38:15.000 Hunters are the opposite of that. 0.97

01:38:16.000 Yeah, I think there's certainly an element of that, but I think it really all boils down to people that love animals.

01:38:21.000 I definitely detect that there's a complete disinterest in what hunters think about it, and they think that That for someone to come in and argue, by doing this wildlife measure, you're impacting,

01:38:37.000 like, you would like this animal on the landscape for viewing pleasure.

01:38:42.000 Mm-hmm.

01:38:43.000 I like certain animals on the landscape for hunting, consumption, eating, whatever, and there's a conflict here where by doing this, you're going to lower—by increasing your likelihood of having viewer pleasure,

01:39:00.000 you're having a potentially— Really negative impact on my use of natural resources.

01:39:08.000 I think that they would look at you as though you're ridiculous or evil or don't have a point in saying that you want to limit predation on a resource you rely on.

01:39:21.000 And they don't accept that as a reality. 0.53

01:39:28.000 I haven't encountered a lot of really, really forceful wolf advocates that are serious hunters.

01:39:38.000 There's a trend there.

01:39:40.000 The thing that bothered me most about the Colorado reintroduction is that while the ballot measure was going forward, wolves showed up on their own.

01:39:52.000 I would have imagined, even if I was on, and I'm not anti-wolf, but When they showed up on their own, I don't even know if it's legally possible, I would have halted that whole thing.

01:40:04.000 Because the social friction is so much less if they walk in on their own.

01:40:11.000 Diane Boyd, who is the Montana wolf specialist for many years, she even came to believe in hindsight that the Idaho-Montana reintroductions were Ultimately were unnecessary.

01:40:27.000 And that you would have gradually achieved the same thing with wolves walking in on their own and had a very different societal perception of what was going on.

01:40:36.000 People would look at it as a natural dispersal, a natural occurrence, and not a government action.

01:40:43.000 Right.

01:40:44.000 Yeah, but I think they wanted that pomp and circumstance.

01:40:47.000 Like, Polis was there, I think, when they released the wolves.

01:40:50.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

01:40:50.000 With a big, stupid smile on his face. 1.00

01:40:52.000 Yeah, they want... 1.00

01:40:52.000 Everybody else, all the biologists all had this, like, what are we doing? 1.00

01:40:55.000 And he was like, yay!

01:40:57.000 Yeah, they wanted...

01:40:59.000 Right, they wanted that.

01:41:00.000 You know, and if they knew the truth of how nature balances itself, it doesn't really balance.

01:41:05.000 It's over...

01:41:06.000 You know, predators kill way too many prey animals because there is no tag limits.

01:41:10.000 They're not like...

01:41:11.000 For example...

01:41:12.000 They talk about trophy hunting lions or mountain lions.

01:41:15.000 To hunt in Colorado, you have to take—it's very regulated.

01:41:18.000 You take this test, so you learn how to identify a tom and a female.

01:41:23.000 You learn how to age a little bit, you know, based on the coloring.

01:41:27.000 You learn, you know, what size a track.

01:41:29.000 So there's—you have to go through this before you hunt.

01:41:31.000 And the whole quota system?

01:41:33.000 Yeah, so the quota where I was in the unit I was hunting was 34 lions.

01:41:38.000 Every night after 5, you call in to see where we're at.

01:41:43.000 When I got there, it was at 31. I was there for 6 days.

01:41:46.000 It was up to, 34 was the limit, it was up to 33, so one more lion could get killed.

01:41:52.000 And then it's done.

01:41:53.000 So it's not like...

01:41:55.000 What happens if, like, you kill the same...

01:41:57.000 You're in the woods, no signal, and someone else kills too until it hits 36. It could.

01:42:01.000 That's why you check in.

01:42:02.000 There's a window.

01:42:03.000 After 5. Yeah.

01:42:05.000 So I think...

01:42:05.000 And it'll usually click in, like, a 24-hour clock.

01:42:08.000 Maybe they might have been immediate.

01:42:09.000 I don't know.

01:42:10.000 It was...

01:42:10.000 You have 48 hours to turn it in there.

01:42:14.000 But anyway, point is, you're not over-harvesting.

01:42:17.000 The estimate goes up to as high as 7,000 mountain lions in Colorado, probably maybe 5,000.

01:42:25.000 But in the whole state, hunters are allowed to kill 450. And they've been doing this.

01:42:30.000 And it's not like they're out there killing mountain lions, cutting their heads off, no regard for the numbers, wiping them out.

01:42:37.000 It's so regulated.

01:42:39.000 You know, you don't have to call and report your deer and elk.

01:42:43.000 But lions are like a whole other level as far as control.

01:42:47.000 And think about that quota system.

01:42:48.000 If you have a horrific snowstorm...

01:42:53.000 That pushes all kinds of deer and elk out of high country.

01:42:56.000 And like everybody and his brother, like a perfectly timed snowstorm, and everybody and his brother is just piling up deer and elk.

01:43:04.000 They don't go, uh-oh!

01:43:07.000 Shut it down.

01:43:08.000 Yeah.

01:43:09.000 They sit back and they'll go like, wow.

01:43:11.000 Yeah.

01:43:12.000 Motherload.

01:43:12.000 What a harvest.

01:43:13.000 Yeah.

01:43:14.000 But with lions, they would come in and go, oh, done.

01:43:17.000 Yeah.

01:43:18.000 It's a perpetual motion machine where they've had a really healthy, stable population.

01:43:27.000 Minimum harvest.

01:43:28.000 Yeah.

01:43:29.000 That just goes on.

01:43:30.000 It's under 10% harvest. 0.98

01:43:31.000 What's the thing that we should talk about when it comes to these reintroduction of predators, which, listen, I fucking love wolves. 0.91

01:43:39.000 I mean, if you look out here, I have all these photos of wolves. 0.88

01:43:41.000 It's long-distance photos of wolves.

01:43:43.000 I'm happy that they exist. 0.99

01:43:44.000 I think they're fucking amazing. 0.98

01:43:46.000 I got a big one on my wall in my living room. 0.99

01:43:49.000 They're probably my favorite animal. 0.98

01:43:50.000 I just think they're the fucking coolest animal of all time. 0.99

01:43:52.000 I really do. 0.98

01:43:53.000 I just look in their eyes, photos of them. 0.99

01:43:55.000 If I come across photos on my Instagram, I'm always like, holy shit, look at that thing. 0.98

01:43:59.000 They're majestic. 0.96

01:44:02.000 But...

01:44:03.000 Their numbers have to be banished.

01:44:05.000 And as uncomfortable as that sounds for people, wildlife biologists, they have an understanding of the carrying capacity and the resources of the land.

01:44:14.000 They understand how many hunters there are.

01:44:16.000 They understand how many...

01:44:17.000 That's how tags are allocated.

01:44:18.000 Yeah, it's not a guessing game.

01:44:19.000 Yeah, it's a way people need to understand this.

01:44:21.000 It's like they've done this...

01:44:24.000 For a long time, these people have painstakingly researched these numbers.

01:44:30.000 They know exactly what they're doing, but when it comes to this game of reintroduction of animals, the first step is they say there's a carrying capacity for the amount of wolves.

01:44:41.000 This is the number.

01:44:42.000 When it gets to that, we will agree to open up a season on wolf hunting.

01:44:46.000 But every time that happens, there's lawsuits.

01:44:50.000 There's lawsuits to try to stop that hunt, and then the wolves get larger and larger.

01:44:55.000 And then you have larger and larger populations.

01:44:57.000 I was looking at a graph the other day where they showed reintroduction of wolves to the Yellowstone, the amount of elk that existed, and now the amount of wolves versus the amount of elk.

01:45:06.000 And it's pretty shocking.

01:45:07.000 It's a giant drop.

01:45:08.000 And they're so good at hunting. 0.99

01:45:10.000 They're fucking amazing. 0.99

01:45:12.000 But hunting wolves Is insanely difficult. 0.99

01:45:16.000 It's really hard to do. 0.99

01:45:18.000 They're really fucking smart. 0.97

01:45:20.000 They're really aware. 0.99

01:45:21.000 Their senses are light years beyond what we can even physically imagine an animal to be capable of doing.

01:45:28.000 In our minds, like we know that deer could... 0.96

01:45:31.000 I remember I was watching an episode of your show where a bear winded you guys like fucking 500 yards or something. 0.97

01:45:37.000 Like, it's incredible. 0.99

01:45:39.000 Their noses are fucking amazing. 0.99

01:45:41.000 Their senses are amazing. 0.99

01:45:43.000 I don't think we really...

01:45:45.000 It's almost like looking at the size of the universe.

01:45:48.000 Like, you know it's 13 point whatever billion light years across. 0.99

01:45:51.000 You don't fucking... 0.99

01:45:52.000 That's just going in your head. 1.00

01:45:54.000 The kind of power that the senses of a wolf have.

01:45:59.000 I don't think we could even really fathom it.

01:46:01.000 So our thought is people are just going to go in there and wipe out the wolves like they did before.

01:46:07.000 That's just ignorance.

01:46:08.000 The way they wiped out before was strict not.

01:46:10.000 Well, at this point, you can go and say that that's not the reality.

01:46:13.000 Because after the delisting in the Northern Rockies, after the delisting, that didn't happen.

01:46:21.000 Right.

01:46:23.000 Did they ever reach their quotas?

01:46:25.000 Yeah, they reached quotas.

01:46:27.000 Every night, not every night, many nights I'll check and y'all get notifications, like the other night I got a notification, whatever the hell, 313, whatever it was, unit had hit its quota, region 5 had hit its quota, I'm talking about in Montana, whatever region hit its quota.

01:46:43.000 At this point, we've hit at, it is a...

01:46:49.000 There's a stable population of wolves across a big chunk of range that are managed as a renewable natural resources, that are managed as a big game species.

01:47:00.000 There is no problem.

01:47:01.000 It still gets litigated all the time, but the whole idea that they're going to be pushed back onto the ESA, onto the endangered species list, the state doesn't want that.

01:47:09.000 That'd be the worst thing that could happen to the state.

01:47:11.000 They're not going to shoot them into oblivion.

01:47:13.000 It's like, we have wolves on the landscape.

01:47:16.000 And you could have the extremes of people that want to live in a world where there aren't any.

01:47:20.000 That's not realistic.

01:47:22.000 You lost that fight.

01:47:23.000 You have extremes where people want to live in a world where there's as many as possible and there's no regulation on them, which isn't extreme because we could live in that landscape.

01:47:32.000 But right now we're living in a landscape where there are wolves on the ground, there's a healthy population, there's hunting for them, there's an equilibrium emerging.

01:47:42.000 And it's very livable.

01:47:43.000 But in Colorado, if hunters saw that there was a pathway to finding the extent of it, they would probably feel a lot better.

01:47:54.000 But right now, they're like, we're going to lose 50% of elk.

01:47:57.000 We're going to lose 75% of elk.

01:47:59.000 This is going to get litigated.

01:48:01.000 It could be 100 years from now.

01:48:03.000 We could have 90 years of full recovery objective.

01:48:07.000 There's still no regulated harvest on wolves.

01:48:10.000 And they're apprehensive.

01:48:12.000 Rightfully so.

01:48:13.000 And it's also for high population areas, which is the ones that vote the most.

01:48:16.000 I mean, that's where the people are that are voting.

01:48:19.000 These are generally urban areas that don't have any understanding of what they're even voting on.

01:48:23.000 Yeah, they're hoping to see one.

01:48:24.000 Like exactly what's going on in BC when they made it illegal to hunt grizzly bears.

01:48:30.000 And the people that live up in BC, like my friend Mike, who lives in northern BC, is like, Jesus Christ.

01:48:36.000 First of all, this is a way that a lot of people make a living is by having these bear hunts.

01:48:43.000 This is a part of their lifestyle.

01:48:45.000 They're guides.

01:48:47.000 They guide people to hunt grizzlies.

01:48:49.000 And it's important to maintain their population because if you don't, nothing is.

01:48:53.000 And these people in these urban areas, they think of it as trophy hunting.

01:48:57.000 But at least people know that you eat bear.

01:49:00.000 Nobody's eaten wolves.

01:49:01.000 So that is like one of the most difficult to defend when you say I'm gonna go wolf hunting. 1.00

01:49:06.000 Like what a piece of shit you are. 1.00

01:49:08.000 You're gonna hunt wolves? 1.00

01:49:09.000 The fuck is wrong with you? 1.00

01:49:10.000 You mentioned, Steve, that it's kind of at a stable level with the wolves now. 1.00

01:49:17.000 You call and check in and wolves are introduced.

01:49:20.000 They're still being hunted.

01:49:21.000 So that works in Montana.

01:49:23.000 In Idaho, I think.

01:49:25.000 Wyoming, Idaho, Montana.

01:49:27.000 Right.

01:49:27.000 So I sent this to you.

01:49:28.000 I was just looking this up.

01:49:29.000 In Alaska, of course.

01:49:30.000 Right.

01:49:32.000 In Idaho-Lolo region, in 95, 12 wolves were introduced.

01:49:37.000 In 2005, 512 wolves were present.

01:49:41.000 In 2011, 800 wolves were present.

01:49:44.000 So the elk from 95, there's 16,000 elk in this region.

01:49:49.000 In 2016, there was 1,000 elk.

01:49:52.000 So it went from 16,000 to 1,000.

01:49:55.000 So that's what wolves can do.

01:49:57.000 That's insane.

01:49:58.000 When you say, and they can hunt them in Idaho.

01:50:03.000 In Colorado, when there is no wolf hunting, and now these wolves are back...

01:50:07.000 And there won't be.

01:50:08.000 Not under this, their governor now.

01:50:13.000 And that's what I say.

01:50:14.000 It's like, once these prey animals get down, then they can say, well, we don't need hunters.

01:50:20.000 There's nothing to hunt.

01:50:22.000 Well, that's the objective in California.

01:50:23.000 That's a regulated objective in California.

01:50:25.000 It's a state objective.

01:50:27.000 And I've heard they want to turn Colorado into a...

01:50:31.000 Almost like a viewing state like you know how they do the safaris over in Africa where there's no hunting you're just out taking pictures that's what they want Colorado to be so they want low numbers of elk and deer so there is no hunting so then they can say well we don't really need hunters and by the way do you guys need guns now i i don't know if you need guns because you said you needed them for hunting so that's a big portion some people say yeah we want our everyday carry for protection a lot of people say we want to hunt With no hunting,

01:50:58.000 you don't need guns.

01:50:59.000 So there's this big diabolical plan.

01:51:01.000 You could say, is this what's happening?

01:51:03.000 But all I know is that where there's wolves, there's way less elk.

01:51:06.000 It's openly stated on this wolf conservation website that that's their ultimate goal.

01:51:11.000 Their ultimate goal is to remove firearms because you won't need them if you don't need them for hunting.

01:51:16.000 You wind up with this attitude about it that...

01:51:22.000 A lot of people that are just really, and again, I'm stuttering here because I'm not an anti-wolf person, right?

01:51:35.000 I'm like pro hitting a recovery objective and then having a managed resource.

01:51:42.000 But you'll find that a lot of wolf advocates will really try to, in one breath, tell you that they don't actually do that.

01:51:52.000 They don't actually cause the decline of elk numbers.

01:51:55.000 Like when elk numbers collapsed with the coming of the wolf in the northern Rockies, there's other factors that could have explained that.

01:52:02.000 They don't actually do that.

01:52:04.000 But at the same time, they'll say, oh, but they would be a great tool for controlling wildlife diseases which populate among overpopulated ungulates.

01:52:14.000 So you wind up getting this crosstalk.

01:52:18.000 On one hand, it's not that catastrophic for big game herds, but it really lowers big game herds.

01:52:26.000 It helps the disease transmission.

01:52:28.000 And it's part of that.

01:52:29.000 That kind of stuff really frustrates people.

01:52:33.000 You're getting all this... 1.00

01:52:35.000 They're like shit rainbows. 1.00

01:52:38.000 And it pisses people off. 1.00

01:52:42.000 Well, it's also, like we were saying, it's almost indefensible to someone who's an anti-hunter.

01:52:47.000 You could say, I hunt for food, and people go, I don't agree with you, but I get it.

01:52:52.000 Nobody gets wolf hunting.

01:52:56.000 Do you want to go hunt a wolf?

01:52:58.000 I don't want to hunt a wolf.

01:52:59.000 I don't want to shoot a wolf.

01:53:01.000 I love them.

01:53:02.000 I think they're amazing.

01:53:03.000 You could say I harvested an animal and took the thing of highest relevance and value to me.

01:53:13.000 On a deer, I didn't keep the hide.

01:53:16.000 I didn't retain the hide, but I kept the meat.

01:53:19.000 On a wolf, I didn't keep the meat, but I retained the hide.

01:53:21.000 I took the thing of highest value to me.

01:53:23.000 Wasn't there some trappers you were telling me that wolf meat was their favorite meat?

01:53:27.000 Oh, there's an Arctic explorer, Viljalmer Stephenson, and he had a book, My Life with the Eskimo.

01:53:38.000 And he made first contact with a lot of Eskimo Inuit hunters in the Canadian high Arctic, and he always claimed that was his favorite game meat.

01:53:45.000 Well, why?

01:53:46.000 If people eat mountain lion, and mountain lion, you told me it's delicious.

01:53:50.000 Yeah.

01:53:51.000 Why don't they eat wolves? 0.98

01:53:52.000 It's weird, man.

01:53:52.000 I mean, I've never gotten a wolf.

01:53:54.000 You ate a coyote once.

01:53:55.000 Yeah.

01:53:55.000 I've never gotten a wolf.

01:53:58.000 And I've never eaten a wolf.

01:53:59.000 But I know people that have eaten it, but it's not a, you know, eating, like, lion hunters eating mountain lions is very common.

01:54:08.000 I don't believe that, I believe there's some people that eat some wolf meat, because I've heard of it and seen it.

01:54:14.000 I don't think it's widely practiced.

01:54:16.000 Have you ever talked to someone who's eaten wolf?

01:54:18.000 Yeah, I do know a couple guys that have eaten wolf.

01:54:24.000 My friend Buck Bowden's eaten wolf.

01:54:27.000 That's the guy that makes the bowls?

01:54:29.000 Yep.

01:54:30.000 He had eaten it.

01:54:33.000 What did he say?

01:54:34.000 Didn't Randy Newberg eat a wolf?

01:54:36.000 He might have.

01:54:37.000 Yeah, I think he ate a wolf.

01:54:38.000 What did Buck Bowden say it tastes like?

01:54:41.000 There's a story about Buck Bowden where someone's talking to him and he's cleaning a Wolverine skull.

01:54:48.000 When he's trapping Wolverines, he's cleaning a Wolverine skull with a knife at a counter and someone's talking to him.

01:54:53.000 And as he's talking to him, he's eating the hunks of meat that he scrapes off the skull with his knife.

01:54:59.000 But I don't remember what he told me about it.

01:55:01.000 I remember him telling me the one thing he can't get that he's tried every which way is brown bears eating salmon.

01:55:08.000 I remember him telling me that was the one food that he had a hard time with.

01:55:12.000 Well, you were telling that story about how you borrowed your friend's smoker.

01:55:16.000 Yeah.

01:55:17.000 Coastal black bears.

01:55:18.000 Yeah.

01:55:18.000 And you were like, man, you gotta clean your smoker.

01:55:21.000 It smells like fish.

01:55:22.000 He's like, I've never cooked fish on that smoker.

01:55:23.000 Yeah, you know, I hadn't used that for that.

01:55:25.000 And I was like, oh, that's my bear.

01:55:28.000 My bear ham did that to me.

01:55:29.000 How did the bear taste?

01:55:31.000 Oh, I don't mind it.

01:55:32.000 You know what's funny?

01:55:32.000 You know Dirt, right?

01:55:34.000 Dirt, I'm really liking that.

01:55:36.000 He liked that bear that tastes like smoked salmon.

01:55:39.000 He's like, well, I like smoked salmon, and I like meat, and this is the full package.

01:55:44.000 That's fusion.

01:55:45.000 No, we hate it, but I'll just eat stuff.

01:55:47.000 I don't care.

01:55:48.000 If I have it, I'll eat it. 0.97

01:55:50.000 Well, if you do it right, like one of the things that we learned when we were hunting with Jesse last year, like diver ducks, which people normally say they taste like shit because they eat the stuff on the bottom of the lakes. 0.77

01:56:01.000 Not when he cooks them.

01:56:03.000 Jesse Griffiths can cook some diver duck that makes it like literally one of my favorite foods I've ever eaten in my life.

01:56:09.000 You can figure anything out.

01:56:10.000 You can figure anything out.

01:56:11.000 It depends how much work you want to put into it.

01:56:13.000 Right.

01:56:13.000 And, you know, obviously it doesn't hurt being an amazing chef.

01:56:17.000 But he's got it down to a fucking science. 0.99

01:56:20.000 Those diver ducks are sensational. 0.99

01:56:23.000 But if you talk to the average duck hunter, they're like...

01:56:25.000 If I got a wolf, I would definitely want to have a couple chews off it.

01:56:29.000 But, I mean, I could tell you that you'd never separate me from the hide off that thing.

01:56:35.000 But I would go into it and be like, I'm going to try it just because I want to see what it's all about.

01:56:40.000 But it wouldn't be my primary objective in getting one. 0.99

01:56:43.000 Some of those animals just need to be killed. 1.00

01:56:46.000 Like coyotes, wolves, they just need to be killed. 0.97

01:56:50.000 And whether you eat them or not, I don't know, their numbers need to be managed.

01:56:54.000 The wildest thing about coyotes is it doesn't work.

01:56:57.000 It has the opposite effect.

01:56:59.000 Well...

01:57:02.000 Depending on how good you are at it.

01:57:04.000 Done in a very surgical fashion, at the right time, the right place, with the right level of intensity, they have found that it is effective. 0.99

01:57:16.000 Well, you gotta bring in a fucking special ops unit. 0.64

01:57:18.000 No, like, you can, there's, man, if you have imperiled populations of pronghorn or imperiled populations of mule deer, and you go in, like, during calving season, like, In the right areas at the right time, 0.99

01:57:34.000 you can move the needle on recruitment.

01:57:39.000 Does you now and then, if you have a ranch, and you now and then see a coyote and get it, are you doing effective predator control?

01:57:47.000 Probably not.

01:57:49.000 That does not mean that you cannot...

01:57:52.000 Done in a timely fashion, like I said, surgically, a timely fashion with the right approach at the right time, you can absolutely move the needle on wildlife recruitment.

01:58:01.000 You see it in Alaska, you see it in Arizona, you see it all over the place.

01:58:04.000 But the issue is, statewide or locally, that might be the case, but they will then spread out.

01:58:12.000 Now they're in every state, they're in every city in the country because of that, because people have hunted them.

01:58:17.000 So I put this to someone the other day.

01:58:19.000 You know how you don't do media?

01:58:21.000 Yeah.

01:58:22.000 You don't like doing interviews?

01:58:23.000 Yeah.

01:58:24.000 I now and then get suckered into doing an interview.

01:58:27.000 And I did an interview about a contentious issue.

01:58:30.000 It was about states banning...

01:58:33.000 I knew the minute the journalist called me and he's talking about banning wildlife killing contests.

01:58:39.000 And I said, can we please say hunting contests at least?

01:58:44.000 Do we have to say wildlife killing contests?

01:58:46.000 And I'm like, you know, my buddy Doug has a doe derby.

01:58:51.000 Where they're in an area where they're trying to lower deer numbers for issues of disease transmission, habitat improvement, and he has a little derby where you win some prizes because the state is explicitly trying to encourage Dough harvest?

01:59:09.000 Is he having a wildlife killing contest?

01:59:12.000 Or is he having a derby as a management tool?

01:59:16.000 Right?

01:59:16.000 Anyways, I do this interview and shouldn't have done it because the quote they pulled for me was not the right quote.

01:59:24.000 Now I'm so mad about that guy.

01:59:25.000 I can't remember what point I was driving at.

01:59:28.000 You were going to say that they tried to lump it in as a killing contest.

01:59:32.000 Oh, the outlaw, the contest...

01:59:35.000 Of killing animals, basically. 0.96

01:59:37.000 But I had some, like, broader-ass point. 0.91

01:59:39.000 I can't remember now what it was.

01:59:40.000 Apologies.

01:59:41.000 Got so riled up about talking to that guy.

01:59:43.000 Yeah.

01:59:44.000 Yeah. 0.78

01:59:44.000 And so I do want to revisit one thing, because I said, like, for me, anytime I see a coyote, if I got a license and it's legal, I kill it. 0.78

01:59:54.000 I killed one this year.

01:59:57.000 My personal thing is I kill so many prey animals a year, whatever that number is, I'm going to try to kill a number of predators also. 0.92

02:00:05.000 I feel like that's doing my part to whatever. 0.63

02:00:08.000 To balance it.

02:00:09.000 To balance it.

02:00:09.000 But I did want to say one thing about the mountain lion hunting.

02:00:12.000 As I say that I will kill a coyote just because I think it's to kill, I didn't kill a lion in Colorado because one of the biggest benefits to using dogs is identifying If that's the animal you want to kill.

02:00:25.000 What happens now, like in Oregon where they outlawed running lions with dogs, is if you kill one, it's just one you saw and you don't know what it is.

02:00:35.000 You don't know how old it is.

02:00:37.000 You don't know male, female. 1.00

02:00:39.000 Because you don't have time.

02:00:39.000 Right.

02:00:41.000 But that's the only way you can hunt them.

02:00:42.000 So now they have, the season is open all year.

02:00:45.000 It never closes in Oregon.

02:00:47.000 There is no dog.

02:00:48.000 So lion numbers are going way up, deer numbers going way down.

02:00:51.000 That's kind of what happens.

02:00:53.000 Where dogs are allowed or baiting for bears allowed or even hunting black bear with dogs is allowed, you're killing the animal that should be killed, the older male generally, and you're identifying it, you're taking out the right one. 0.89

02:01:07.000 Without those measures in place, as hunting a dog is a tool, without those measures in place, it's not nearly as controlled.

02:01:15.000 And it's not like people are just going out there just going to kill any lion up the tree, just like I didn't kill one because I didn't see an old male lion.

02:01:23.000 Houndsmen are the one that originally pushed for lion regulations.

02:01:26.000 They were pushing for lion regulations when no one was paying any attention to lion conservation.

02:01:32.000 I finally remember my point.

02:01:34.000 Am I allowed to go back to time?

02:01:37.000 We were having this conversation where people say that coyote hunting actually increases coyote numbers.

02:01:46.000 And I see what I'm talking about because it disrupts pack dynamics and can lead to animals shooting off in new directions and starting packs.

02:01:52.000 It also leads to them having more offspring.

02:01:54.000 But I said, well, if you're super pro-coyote, why would you not encourage that?

02:02:01.000 It's true.

02:02:02.000 And I was just throwing it out there as a rhetorical question.

02:02:04.000 Well, it is a rhetorical question, but it actually does have merit.

02:02:06.000 You know, Dan Flores' book, Coyote America, which is an amazing book. 0.93

02:02:11.000 Fucking incredible book when you realize how wild those things are. 0.93

02:02:14.000 And when they get killed, When they do their roll call and there's a coyote missing, the female coyotes will produce more pups. 1.00

02:02:23.000 I mean, that's the reason why they're everywhere.

02:02:25.000 Yeah.

02:02:27.000 I'm friends with Dan.

02:02:28.000 I studied under Dan.

02:02:30.000 I have massive respect for Dan.

02:02:32.000 I have Dan on the show.

02:02:33.000 There's certain little tidbits of this debate that Dan and I don't see eye to eye on.

02:02:38.000 And this is one of them.

02:02:40.000 Yeah.

02:02:41.000 But the effect...

02:02:43.000 Love him.

02:02:43.000 The effect is hard to argue.

02:02:45.000 They literally have gone from 100 years ago, where they were primarily in the Southwest and in the West, to everywhere.

02:02:53.000 In New York City. 0.98

02:02:54.000 I mean, they have coyotes in fucking Central Park. 1.00

02:02:57.000 It's crazy. 0.99

02:02:57.000 Yeah, and some of their... 0.99

02:02:58.000 You gotta realize, too, like...

02:03:01.000 Wildlife dynamics can play out very slowly.

02:03:04.000 So, in some ways, it's possible they're still responding from the elimination of the wolf.

02:03:11.000 Right.

02:03:12.000 Right?

02:03:12.000 Right.

02:03:12.000 Like, some of this stuff takes so long.

02:03:14.000 Just look at, like, why does this very gradually...

02:03:18.000 Why do raccoons and possums keep going north and west?

02:03:23.000 It's just so weirdly gradual.

02:03:25.000 Javelinas, right, move over time.

02:03:27.000 So you see these things that happen so slowly that you can't picture them playing out.

02:03:32.000 But with the coyote, it seemed like there was a gradual movement and then just an explosion.

02:03:37.000 I remember them coming into our area.

02:03:39.000 I was a red fox trapper, and we didn't have coyotes.

02:03:43.000 I remember the first coyote I ever saw.

02:03:45.000 And now, it's like, for the most part, red fox are gone, and coyotes are there.

02:03:52.000 And that was part of the, not just the gradual increase, that was the explosion in the 90s, where they just...

02:04:02.000 I don't know.

02:04:02.000 They suddenly figured something out.

02:04:04.000 Something clicked.

02:04:05.000 I don't know what it was, man.

02:04:06.000 Well, I was in this conversation with some guy in the Hollywood Hills.

02:04:09.000 You know, people up there terrified of losing their dogs.

02:04:13.000 They lose their dogs all the time.

02:04:14.000 Dogs and cats get killed by coyotes constantly.

02:04:17.000 And he was telling me about this. 0.99

02:04:18.000 And he's like, fucking hate them. 1.00

02:04:20.000 They're everywhere. 1.00

02:04:20.000 I go, yeah, I get it. 1.00

02:04:22.000 But you love rats?

02:04:24.000 Because if it wasn't for coyotes, rats would be everywhere.

02:04:27.000 They'd be everywhere.

02:04:28.000 They also keep the population of things down that you don't want.

02:04:33.000 I mean, they're an essential part of the ecosystem.

02:04:36.000 There's a reason why, like where I used to live in California, it's not infested with rats.

02:04:42.000 Because it's got a lot of coyotes. 0.99

02:04:44.000 They're fucking everywhere. 0.99

02:04:45.000 And yeah, don't leave your dog out. 1.00

02:04:48.000 Yeah, don't let a kitten roam around your backyard and you're not looking.

02:04:54.000 Because they'll get it.

02:04:55.000 You know, they killed all my chickens.

02:04:56.000 But they're also, like, they're a very important part of that system.

02:05:01.000 Again, I don't dislike them.

02:05:03.000 Yeah, I love them.

02:05:04.000 I like them.

02:05:05.000 Every year I flesh and stretch a few and send them to the tannery.

02:05:08.000 Someday I'm going to have a big, giant bedspread out of coyotes.

02:05:12.000 How many do you have now?

02:05:13.000 What's that?

02:05:13.000 How many do you have?

02:05:17.000 I mean, I used to sell them.

02:05:19.000 Now I got saved up maybe 10 of them.

02:05:22.000 How many did you need for a bedspread?

02:05:24.000 I haven't done the math yet.

02:05:26.000 Maybe my body sent in.

02:05:27.000 We had 50 beavers and we did two blankets, two big blankets out of 50 beavers.

02:05:31.000 Oh, wow.

02:05:34.000 Beautiful.

02:05:35.000 I'll show you a picture sometime.

02:05:36.000 The fur thing is a fascinating one, too.

02:05:38.000 Because there's people that are really anti-fur, but yet they're wearing leather.

02:05:42.000 And they probably don't like the oil industry.

02:05:46.000 But they drive.

02:05:47.000 But they drive a car.

02:05:48.000 Well, that was my favorite.

02:05:49.000 I talked about that on stage last night. 1.00

02:05:51.000 The fucking stop oil people that block the highway with their fucking paint on their sign that's made with oil. 1.00

02:05:58.000 Wearing shoes that are made with oil. 1.00

02:06:00.000 Wearing clothes that are made with oil.

02:06:01.000 Unless they're dressed in fur, it's made out of oil.

02:06:03.000 On antidepressants that were made from oil.

02:06:06.000 You know, they use oil for everything.

02:06:08.000 I didn't know that.

02:06:09.000 Oh yeah, man.

02:06:10.000 That's something that happened in the early 1900s.

02:06:15.000 They figured out how to use petroleum-based things to make medicine.

02:06:21.000 Yeah.

02:06:21.000 They got their fingers in everything, don't they?

02:06:23.000 Everything.

02:06:24.000 Not fur.

02:06:25.000 Not fur.

02:06:26.000 Yeah.

02:06:26.000 Everything.

02:06:27.000 But it's like, the weird thing is people don't like animal skins that have fur on it.

02:06:32.000 That's the crazy part. 1.00

02:06:33.000 Like, if you have fur boots, people are like, oh, you piece of shit. 1.00

02:06:36.000 But if you have leather boots, like, oh, a guy's got boots on. 1.00

02:06:38.000 Yeah.

02:06:39.000 It's almost over-noticed, but it always drives me crazy.

02:06:41.000 It's weird.

02:06:41.000 Like, why has it become bad?

02:06:43.000 Why is it so much better to take the fur off?

02:06:45.000 It's weird.

02:06:46.000 It's weird.

02:06:47.000 The skin itself is leather, and that's fine. 0.99

02:06:49.000 But if you leave the fur on, oh, you fucking creep. 0.99

02:06:53.000 It's weird. 0.99

02:06:54.000 Yeah, that's one argument that I... People like to lump, kind of an aside, but lump hunters into trophy hunters or meat hunters, which I think we would all agree, you can be both.

02:07:05.000 I take every ounce of the meat from the animals I kill.

02:07:09.000 Every ounce is more valuable than gold to me.

02:07:12.000 And I take all the antlers, the hide, I got claws.

02:07:18.000 That's all part of that memory of that hunt.

02:07:21.000 I'm honoring that.

02:07:22.000 That memory and that harvest, essentially.

02:07:25.000 But I'm also sharing that meat.

02:07:28.000 We eat the meat every night or every day.

02:07:30.000 And it's like, we're both.

02:07:31.000 We're not just...

02:07:32.000 Because I meet people and they say, well, you're not a trophy hunter, are you?

02:07:36.000 I'm like, yeah.

02:07:37.000 Yeah, I am.

02:07:38.000 Yeah, I'd be like, I'm all kinds of hunters.

02:07:41.000 Yeah.

02:07:41.000 Well, you know, here's what's interesting.

02:07:43.000 We're so separated from the idea of animals and just the wilderness itself being a resource in order to sustain you.

02:07:53.000 But during COVID... There was a bunch of people that reached out to me and wanted to start hunting because they had this thought.

02:08:02.000 My friend Duncan went to the supermarket and he sent me a picture.

02:08:05.000 He was like, dude, there's no food.

02:08:07.000 He sent me a photo of the meat shelf and there was literally a package of ground beef left.

02:08:12.000 There was nothing left, because the supply chain got interrupted.

02:08:15.000 And people started thinking, oh my god, we could get to a part where I don't have any food.

02:08:20.000 Like, that's a real reality.

02:08:21.000 Yeah, people felt vulnerable.

02:08:23.000 They felt vulnerable.

02:08:23.000 So two things started happening to me during that.

02:08:26.000 People started reaching out, asking me about hunting, and then when the George Floyd riots kicked in, people wanted to borrow guns.

02:08:34.000 People asked to borrow guns.

02:08:36.000 How many guns do you have?

02:08:37.000 Can I have one of your guns?

02:08:39.000 I was like, that's not legal!

02:08:40.000 Because in Texas, I could just give you one, which is wild.

02:08:44.000 In Texas, you don't even have to fill out paperwork.

02:08:47.000 If you were a Texas resident and I was a Texas resident, I'm like, you like that gun?

02:08:50.000 You can have it.

02:08:51.000 Oh, yeah.

02:08:51.000 I should say most places, but that's the norm.

02:08:54.000 That's the norm.

02:08:55.000 But in California, I was like, I can't do that.

02:08:57.000 It's absolutely illegal.

02:08:59.000 I could go to jail for giving you a gun.

02:09:01.000 You have to go through the whole process, and then the lines outside the gun stores were wild.

02:09:06.000 Because what you can't do is you can't go down and...

02:09:10.000 You can't go down to the FFL, the federal...

02:09:14.000 You can't go down to a dealer and buy it and say it's for you, but it's actually your buddy buying it.

02:09:23.000 That you definitely can't do.

02:09:25.000 But in terms of you legitimately went and bought it for yourself...

02:09:29.000 And then you decided that you did not want it?

02:09:31.000 You can gift that to a friend.

02:09:34.000 What they're trying to prevent is your buddy saying, hey, go down and buy it for me.

02:09:38.000 I'm a felon and can't.

02:09:39.000 Right.

02:09:40.000 That makes sense. 1.00

02:09:40.000 That's your ass. 1.00

02:09:41.000 So they don't... 1.00

02:09:41.000 Oddly, they... 1.00

02:09:44.000 They don't really prosecute people for lying on FFL statements.

02:09:48.000 Interesting.

02:09:48.000 It's a real issue.

02:09:50.000 Yeah, that could be definitely an issue if someone's a felon.

02:09:53.000 I mean, but then there's also the...

02:09:54.000 They'll reject the purchase and not go after the person. 0.97

02:09:56.000 But when they have those gun fucking conventions, when you can go and just... 0.96

02:10:01.000 What do they call those things? 0.99

02:10:01.000 Gun shows. 0.99

02:10:02.000 Gun shows, where people just...

02:10:04.000 That's a weird one, right?

02:10:05.000 Yeah.

02:10:06.000 They kind of can skirt around some regulations.

02:10:10.000 And that was part of the things that people didn't like.

02:10:12.000 When you hear in the gun control debate, people about trying to close the gun hole loopholes or trying to put it that they should be subject to FFL transfers.

02:10:22.000 But like when my dad died and I got my dad's guns, we didn't do an FFL transfer.

02:10:29.000 Right.

02:10:30.000 How does any kid get a deer hunting rifle?

02:10:33.000 Right.

02:10:33.000 You get it for your dad.

02:10:34.000 Or your grandpa.

02:10:35.000 Yeah.

02:10:35.000 Or like, here you go, son.

02:10:37.000 Right.

02:10:37.000 Like, that's just how it works.

02:10:38.000 It's wrapped up under the tree, man.

02:10:39.000 Yeah.

02:10:40.000 Right.

02:10:41.000 Yeah, there's a lot of regulations that make sense, and there's a lot of them that don't, and most of the ones that come out of California don't.

02:10:47.000 I mean, the limiting magazines, that's a fucking insane one, like down to 10 rounds or certain guns you can't even buy.

02:10:53.000 They're trying to do in Oregon five rounds. 0.97

02:10:56.000 Oh my god, that's hilarious.

02:10:57.000 Washington already did that, right?

02:10:59.000 Maybe so, maybe that's what I'm...

02:11:01.000 That is so crazy.

02:11:02.000 Yeah.

02:11:02.000 So what do you do if you have a Glock 16?

02:11:04.000 You don't?

02:11:05.000 Yeah.

02:11:05.000 I'm not sure.

02:11:07.000 I mean, that's fucking insane. 0.99

02:11:08.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:11:09.000 It's insane.

02:11:09.000 I can't remember.

02:11:10.000 I shouldn't speak to that, but I know that there's, I don't know about, on long guns, there's a restriction, a magazine restriction.

02:11:18.000 What's interesting is for hunting waterfowl, Federally regulated migratory waterfall.

02:11:25.000 There's always been a magazine restriction in the field.

02:11:29.000 Three rounds.

02:11:31.000 And then, as they're trying to lower snow geese numbers to protect Arctic habitats, they've gone in and undone.

02:11:40.000 They've made an exception to allow unlimited capacity magazines to hunt snow geese.

02:11:46.000 So it's one of those weird areas where you see a real reversal of a time-honored tradition, which is three rounds in your gun, to make it that people can kill more snow geese.

02:11:57.000 That's an animal that I want to hunt with you one day.

02:11:59.000 The ribeye in the sky.

02:12:01.000 Oh, the cranes!

02:12:02.000 Yeah, sandhill cranes.

02:12:04.000 I've heard those are insanely delicious.

02:12:06.000 It's crazy when you see a bird that has like a dark red meat.

02:12:10.000 It's like, what is this?

02:12:11.000 This isn't a chicken.

02:12:13.000 What the hell kind of bird is this?

02:12:15.000 A friend of mine, he's right, where he said, watching one of those come down out of the sky is like watching a folding lawn chair hit the ground.

02:12:22.000 It's just a wild bird to hunt.

02:12:25.000 I bet.

02:12:25.000 You know, I asked this question to Waddell the other day.

02:12:29.000 What do you guys think would end hunting, if anything does?

02:12:33.000 Do you think it would be...

02:12:35.000 Um, anti-hunters, politics, or fellow hunters causing division and infighting and whatever.

02:12:44.000 Public referendums, politics.

02:12:46.000 Politics.

02:12:47.000 Yeah, urban centers.

02:12:48.000 Urban centers where people vote and they don't have an understanding of what they're voting on.

02:12:52.000 You don't got to wonder about it.

02:12:54.000 It's happening.

02:12:55.000 Yeah.

02:12:56.000 It's not theoretical.

02:12:57.000 Well, why would you say hunters, though?

02:12:59.000 Like, hunters, in what way?

02:13:01.000 Well, because I see fellow hunters.

02:13:04.000 There's so much infighting.

02:13:06.000 Whereas you look at the anti-hunters, they're so aligned.

02:13:09.000 They're not like...

02:13:10.000 Oh, parsing out the this and that.

02:13:12.000 Yeah, this guy is the number one anti-hunter in the United States.

02:13:17.000 No, he's not. 1.00

02:13:18.000 He's a piece of shit. 1.00

02:13:20.000 Hunters love tearing each other. 1.00

02:13:23.000 He ain't a real anti-hunter.

02:13:25.000 Yeah, no, I'm... 0.99

02:13:28.000 He's a fucking private land anti-hunter. 0.99

02:13:30.000 He's ruining it for all of us anti-hunter. 1.00

02:13:33.000 He's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

02:13:34.000 It doesn't happen.

02:13:35.000 They are so aligned.

02:13:37.000 Right.

02:13:37.000 They have the lobbyists working for them.

02:13:41.000 Meanwhile, hunters, fuck, we can't get out of our own way on half the shit. 1.00

02:13:46.000 Yeah, but I have a long history of being a public person, and I understand it from a different dynamic. 1.00

02:13:50.000 Because there's just a thing that happens with men.

02:13:54.000 Where they become jealous of other men and hateful of other people's success and then they look at other people for whatever reason as anytime they do something it takes away from them or they look at someone getting attention and somehow another it takes away from them and they focus entirely on that person's success.

02:14:12.000 Or who that person is, and they try to find flaws with them.

02:14:15.000 It's a natural thing with jealous, weak-minded men.

02:14:19.000 Right.

02:14:19.000 So, we have that in hunting.

02:14:21.000 Yeah, you gotta have that in everything, though.

02:14:22.000 We have that in comedy.

02:14:23.000 It's a real issue with stand-up comedy.

02:14:25.000 We have that in fighting.

02:14:26.000 But nobody's trying to ban comedy.

02:14:29.000 They are.

02:14:30.000 You're wrong. 0.95

02:14:31.000 Yeah, there's shitty comics that try to tell people what they can and can't joke about. 0.94

02:14:38.000 Like woke comments? 1.00

02:14:39.000 Yep, they all suck. 0.99

02:14:40.000 There's one thing they have in common, they're all not funny. 1.00

02:14:43.000 100% of them.

02:14:44.000 Every single one.

02:14:45.000 There's not a single one that's exceptional.

02:14:47.000 Not a single one.

02:14:49.000 That is anti-comedy about controversial subjects that people are excited to go to see them that are real comedy fans that are really good comics.

02:14:57.000 There's not a single anti-controversial joke comic that other comics seek out to go see.

02:15:04.000 What's interesting is half your guests are your competitors.

02:15:07.000 Yeah.

02:15:08.000 Half your guests are comics.

02:15:10.000 Yeah, but I don't think of comics ever as competitors.

02:15:13.000 They're my tribe.

02:15:14.000 I try the best I can to get them more famous.

02:15:19.000 I want them to be huge.

02:15:20.000 My daughter had a book that described, she had a book about jealousy and it described jealousy as a hot prickly feeling. 0.99

02:15:32.000 I've heard it as a vessel that poisons the thing that carries it, or a substance that poisons the vessel that carries it.

02:15:40.000 That's the best way to look at it.

02:15:42.000 It doesn't do you any good, but it can do the opposite.

02:15:44.000 It can do the opposite if you have a good mindset.

02:15:46.000 If you have a good mindset and you see someone and you're envious, that can be fuel for your success.

02:15:51.000 As long as you manage it in your mind like almost everything else that's complicated, you have to manage it in your mind as like, This can fuel me and be a fantastic resource.

02:16:03.000 When I see someone's success, I get inspired to work harder.

02:16:06.000 I get inspired to do more.

02:16:07.000 So I am happy that that person is successful. 1.00

02:16:09.000 So if you saw a comet coming up and they were kind of in your wheelhouse and nipping on your heels, you'd be like, I'm going to have that son of a bitch on the show. 1.00

02:16:16.000 100%. 1.00

02:16:17.000 Every time.

02:16:18.000 I do it all the time.

02:16:19.000 I'm going to shine a spotlight on that individual.

02:16:21.000 100%.

02:16:21.000 That's why I used to take Joey Diaz on the road with me.

02:16:25.000 Because I couldn't follow him.

02:16:27.000 I was like, he's so funny.

02:16:29.000 He was the funniest guy alive.

02:16:30.000 And people were like, you take Joey Diaz on the road with you? 1.00

02:16:33.000 Are you out of your fucking mind? 0.99

02:16:35.000 And I'm like, yeah, but if I can ride that wave— You set yourself up to be that one guy that wasn't as funny as the other guy. 1.00

02:16:41.000 Oh, I would hear it all the time.

02:16:43.000 People would say, you know, your opening act's funnier than you.

02:16:46.000 I'm like, yeah, he's the best.

02:16:48.000 You have a unique mindset.

02:16:52.000 That's all I worry about—or not all I worry about, but with hunters, we just— We have a hard time giving other people credit, being supportive of each other, some of us, and so with this disjointedness, that's what I get worried about.

02:17:06.000 But you know how that changes?

02:17:07.000 These conversations.

02:17:09.000 This gets out there in the zeitgeist, people hear it, they recognize their own failings, their own shortcomings, and their own thought processes, and then they realize this is not admirable.

02:17:18.000 Some people never will.

02:17:19.000 We can't afford it.

02:17:20.000 We can't afford it.

02:17:22.000 So I'm thankful for outfits like Dan Gates is in Colorado, and then there's another one I wanted to mention called Howl.

02:17:28.000 Is it John Stallone?

02:17:31.000 Man, I know we had Dan Gates join us at a live show, and we got him scheduled to come on the podcast.

02:17:38.000 As voting starts heating up, we start nearing the date for the initiative in Colorado.

02:17:47.000 I'm familiar with Howell.

02:17:49.000 I was introduced to Howell by my colleague Giannis, who's a supporter, and we've done some things to support them, but man, that name, I probably met him, but just right now I'm spacing it if I am, so apologies to him.

02:18:01.000 I believe it's John Stallone.

02:18:03.000 But anyway, they are helping keep us organized, make it easy to send letters to legislators.

02:18:12.000 Yeah, they're leading the fight on the hunting bands.

02:18:16.000 Right.

02:18:17.000 Especially in that arena right there.

02:18:19.000 That's a positive.

02:18:20.000 That's a big one.

02:18:21.000 They're still, in the grand scheme of things, small.

02:18:24.000 If you look at numbers of followers or things like that, they're making an impact.

02:18:29.000 I want to support them and help where we can.

02:18:33.000 It's just this...

02:18:36.000 You're unique when you look at a hot comic coming up and you want to celebrate them.

02:18:40.000 I wish hunting could be more like that.

02:18:42.000 It can be.

02:18:43.000 These weak people have to understand that we know what they are.

02:18:47.000 We see right through them.

02:18:49.000 And you're not admirable.

02:18:50.000 Not only are you not admirable, you're not respected by your peers. 1.00

02:18:53.000 Everybody knows you're a bitch. 1.00

02:18:54.000 Nobody likes a bitch. 1.00

02:18:56.000 And when you're a man and you can't recognize another man's success or you see a man and you measure yourself up to him and you fall short and so you start shitting on that person, everybody knows what you're doing. 1.00

02:19:06.000 Every man knows what you're doing, especially every exceptional man.

02:19:10.000 They know 100% what you're doing.

02:19:12.000 So you have to live with that.

02:19:14.000 And that's how it's a poison that ruins the vessel that carries it.

02:19:19.000 It's not good for anybody.

02:19:20.000 And it's just a thing that people do.

02:19:23.000 People have always been jealous of other human beings throughout time.

02:19:27.000 But you gotta understand, for your own personal benefit, that feeling It can be changed inside of you to fuel.

02:19:36.000 And it will make you a better person.

02:19:38.000 It'll make you better at what you do.

02:19:40.000 It'll make you understand that competition is critical and vital in order for you to reach your full potential. 1.00

02:19:46.000 You don't reach your full potential if you're the king and everybody else is a pussy. 1.00

02:19:50.000 Because then you're like, well, I'm the king. 1.00

02:19:52.000 Everybody else is just a bitch. 1.00

02:19:53.000 I don't have to be any better. 1.00

02:19:54.000 But if you're a king around other kings, you realize, wow, these guys are all fucking getting up earlier than me, working harder than me, thinking smarter than me.

02:20:02.000 Being more effective, recognizing their shortcomings, fixing them, talking about it with other people that do the same, and growing from each other.

02:20:12.000 You know, we have, like, in The Mothership, the comedy club that I own, when we get together in the green room during the shows, we're always breaking down bits.

02:20:20.000 We don't, like, hold secrets.

02:20:23.000 We don't have, like, trade secrets.

02:20:25.000 I don't want to tell anybody how I write.

02:20:27.000 I tell everybody how I write.

02:20:29.000 I tell everybody how I correct things.

02:20:30.000 I'm like, this is a thing that I've noticed that helps me.

02:20:32.000 Here's a thing that I've added.

02:20:33.000 I started listening to my recordings and doing this afterwards.

02:20:37.000 When I get home, I always do.

02:20:39.000 If you just do that one hour every night, just think over time.

02:20:43.000 And then my other friends have said, I started doing that, dude.

02:20:45.000 You're right.

02:20:46.000 I just sat down for 10 minutes.

02:20:47.000 I had a new bit.

02:20:47.000 I wouldn't have come up with that bit if I didn't do that.

02:20:49.000 Like, yes!

02:20:50.000 Yeah, now we all learn from each other. 0.97

02:20:52.000 But if you see this one guy that's out there that's putting in all this extra work and succeeding, and you just start shitting on him, everybody knows what you're doing. 1.00

02:21:03.000 You know what you're doing, motherfucker. 1.00

02:21:06.000 You know, in your heart of hearts, you know you're being a bitch. 1.00

02:21:10.000 And you can live with that if you like, but I can't. 0.99

02:21:14.000 I'm allergic to that feeling in me.

02:21:16.000 I hate that feeling.

02:21:18.000 I've experienced it.

02:21:19.000 I know what it is.

02:21:20.000 It'll still bubble up every now and then if someone's killing it.

02:21:23.000 I'm like, wow, that guy's doing so good. 1.00

02:21:25.000 I'm gonna fuck him. 1.00

02:21:26.000 You know, like that fuck him part of you is always there. 1.00

02:21:28.000 But you gotta go, oh, you little bitch. 1.00

02:21:31.000 I know what you are. 1.00

02:21:32.000 You're a little bitch. 1.00

02:21:33.000 But if you can do that... 1.00

02:21:35.000 This is in the mirror.

02:21:36.000 Yeah.

02:21:37.000 It generally never gets the mirror. 1.00

02:21:40.000 It's like I try to squash that fucker as soon as it comes up like a weed. 1.00

02:21:43.000 I pull it out right away. 1.00

02:21:45.000 But if you don't do that, it's not good.

02:21:48.000 It's not good for you.

02:21:49.000 You never change people's opinions.

02:21:52.000 If someone is doing exceptional work and doing an exceptional job of being very unusually successful, and then you start picking on all the little flaws in that person, and people are gonna look at you. 0.99

02:22:05.000 They're gonna go, But you're kind of fat and lazy and you fuck up all the time and you're always drunk and you've got this problem and that problem. 0.99

02:22:12.000 How come you're not looking at your own self with the same scrutiny that you look at this extremely successful person? 1.00

02:22:18.000 It's because you're jealous.

02:22:21.000 That's all it is.

02:22:22.000 It's a natural human instinct.

02:22:24.000 But that feeling can be repurposed.

02:22:27.000 That thought can benefit you.

02:22:30.000 That feeling of comparing yourself and coming up short.

02:22:33.000 What you're supposed to do is going, what do I need to do so I don't have this feeling anymore?

02:22:37.000 Well, I need to work harder.

02:22:38.000 I need to work smarter.

02:22:38.000 I need to do some things that I'm not doing that maybe make me uncomfortable.

02:22:43.000 And that's what I need to do to get better.

02:22:45.000 Yeah.

02:22:45.000 You know, to your point last night, I saw two of the funniest people I've ever seen, Shane and Tony, both putting notes in their phone from comments that were made in the green room.

02:22:57.000 Yeah.

02:22:58.000 Oh, really?

02:22:58.000 Oh, we always do that.

02:22:59.000 Yeah.

02:23:00.000 So they're like, just like, oh, that's okay.

02:23:02.000 I'm going to put this down so I don't forget it.

02:23:04.000 Trying to grow.

02:23:05.000 You know, that's exactly what you're talking about.

02:23:07.000 They're almost at the top of the game, still trying to get better based on feedback from other comics.

02:23:13.000 We always do that.

02:23:14.000 We workshop constantly.

02:23:16.000 We're always in that green room.

02:23:17.000 And I was trying to explain that to one of the managers. 0.99

02:23:20.000 I was like, the reason why we have to, like, when comics get together, like, we're at the comics bar and we're all just talking shit.

02:23:26.000 Like, if someone is sensitive and they get in that and they start complaining about jokes that are being told, hey, you've got to leave now. 0.75

02:23:33.000 Because this is literally how we spar.

02:23:35.000 Like, this is what we do.

02:23:37.000 If you're complaining that someone is making fun of this person or picking on that person, creating an unsafe work environment, okay, well, you can't be here.

02:23:45.000 It's like if you go to the gym and you're trying to be a boxer and you're like, everybody's trying to hit me.

02:23:50.000 Like, that's what they do.

02:23:51.000 This is how you get better.

02:23:53.000 You hit each other.

02:23:54.000 You don't like being hit?

02:23:55.000 You can't be here. 1.00

02:23:56.000 You can't fucking be here. 1.00

02:23:57.000 And this is the reality of what we do. 0.99

02:24:00.000 And the only people that really truly know that are the practitioners.

02:24:04.000 The ones who are doing this very difficult thing.

02:24:06.000 Look, With stand-up comedy, there's a lot of hunters. 0.99

02:24:10.000 There's a thousand of us on Earth that are worth a fuck. 0.99

02:24:14.000 It might be less. 0.99

02:24:15.000 I'm being generous.

02:24:16.000 It's probably 500. It might be 250 that I want to see.

02:24:20.000 On planet Earth!

02:24:22.000 250 comics that I would go out of my way to see.

02:24:26.000 That's not a lot. 0.98

02:24:27.000 Like, we gotta fucking stick together. 0.97

02:24:29.000 There's so few of us. 1.00

02:24:31.000 You'd be shitting on this guy because he's selling out arenas. 0.98

02:24:33.000 Why do you think people like him? 0.99

02:24:35.000 What is it?

02:24:37.000 What's he doing well?

02:24:38.000 He's doing something. 0.99

02:24:40.000 Fucking figure it out. 0.99

02:24:41.000 Get better. 0.99

02:24:43.000 I'm curious, does comedy have the same...

02:24:46.000 In hunting, it was a big deal when the girls started coming in, right? 1.00

02:24:50.000 So a lot of guys would say, oh, she's just getting this because she's got her tits out or whatever. 1.00

02:24:56.000 Right, which is true. 0.99

02:24:57.000 But I could see comedy being the same.

02:25:01.000 Because there are women comics. 1.00

02:25:02.000 Did you guys look at women and be like, she shouldn't be up there.

02:25:05.000 She's only up there to get to stage time because she's hot. 1.00

02:25:08.000 Well, comedy is a meritocracy.

02:25:10.000 The thing about comedy is if you're not funny, we find out real quick. 0.99

02:25:14.000 Nobody laughs at you just because your tits are out. 1.00

02:25:16.000 The thing about hunting, though, there's gals that become very popular online that are just hot wearing camo. 1.00

02:25:24.000 But how I looked at it is, if I can't be more whatever, stand out more than this girl just because she's hot, I must not be that fucking good. 0.97

02:25:34.000 I think of it in terms of effectiveness. 0.99

02:25:37.000 Like, if a girl's really hot and she's got big tits and camera, but she's also a beast and she's out there really killing a lot of things. 1.00

02:25:43.000 Okay, that's not very many. 0.99

02:25:45.000 Right.

02:25:45.000 So what are you worried about?

02:25:47.000 I'm not.

02:25:47.000 I know.

02:25:48.000 I know you're not, but some guys are.

02:25:50.000 But what are you worried about?

02:25:51.000 They're not effective.

02:25:52.000 Like, if there's a girl that's hot and she gets on stage and she's bombing all the time, no one's like, yeah, she's only up there because she's hot.

02:25:59.000 Like, you don't care.

02:26:00.000 If she's bombing, if someone bombs all the time, you're like, ugh, get away from me.

02:26:05.000 You don't want to be around them.

02:26:07.000 It's contagious.

02:26:08.000 But if someone's good, like Whitney Cummings. 0.95

02:26:10.000 Whitney Cummings is hot, but she's also really fucking funny. 1.00

02:26:14.000 And so when Whitney's just a real comic, when we're around Whitney, no one thinks, oh, here's that hot chick. 1.00

02:26:22.000 It's just like, oh, it's Whitney.

02:26:23.000 What's up?

02:26:24.000 It's like, she's one of us, but she also is hot. 0.97

02:26:27.000 It's hard to be that person. 0.96

02:26:29.000 It's very fucking rare. 0.94

02:26:31.000 But it's doable. 0.98

02:26:32.000 But she had to go through all these ladders to get there.

02:26:35.000 Because it is preconceived notions when you see a woman go on stage. 0.75

02:26:39.000 You're like, immediately, a lot of men, I've been guilty of it.

02:26:43.000 You know, what are the odds she's funny?

02:26:45.000 She's too hot. 1.00

02:26:46.000 It's like you almost immediately think...

02:26:47.000 You can't have it all.

02:26:49.000 Well, it's not so you think, how did she ever...

02:26:51.000 Christopher Hitchens, rather, wrote a long piece for Vanity Fair once called Women Aren't Funny.

02:26:57.000 I remember that.

02:26:58.000 It was brilliant. 0.98

02:26:59.000 He was so fucking smart. 0.95

02:27:02.000 Who wrote that? 0.99

02:27:03.000 Christopher Hitchens.

02:27:03.000 Okay.

02:27:04.000 Because he could attack things from a level of...

02:27:11.000 Intellectual introspection.

02:27:12.000 He has looked at this in a way, analyzed his own thoughts on funny, how he feels, how other people feel.

02:27:20.000 He broke it down so clearly that female comics really couldn't even say anything about it, because what he was saying was true. 1.00

02:27:27.000 He was like, the ones that are funny are kind of dykey. 1.00

02:27:30.000 They're kind of like...

02:27:31.000 And then he's like, no, I'll go back to attacking religion and other safe subjects.

02:27:40.000 But it's that thing.

02:27:42.000 It's like, why are men funny?

02:27:44.000 Men are funny for a lot of reasons, to impress women.

02:27:47.000 That's how they learn to do it, to impress their friends.

02:27:49.000 It's a part of the natural banter that men have when they get together.

02:27:53.000 Women don't necessarily have that same banter. 1.00

02:27:56.000 Some do, but most don't.

02:27:58.000 And women don't have to be funny to attract men. 1.00

02:28:01.000 They just have to look good.

02:28:02.000 So they think they're funny because guys are laughing at anything because they want to sleep with them.

02:28:06.000 They're like, oh, you're so funny.

02:28:08.000 I remember when we were young, someone pointing out that for a girl to say a guy was nice is not good.

02:28:15.000 Oh, right.

02:28:16.000 They're like, dude, she said you're nice.

02:28:19.000 They're like, if she says that he's funny, that's a real good sign.

02:28:22.000 Yeah, yeah, it's true.

02:28:24.000 It's true.

02:28:25.000 Because you don't want the nice thing. 0.94

02:28:26.000 There's less funny women, but the women that are funny, I respect the shit out of them. 1.00

02:28:31.000 Because it's so hard to do.

02:28:33.000 Especially, first of all, your subject matter's limited.

02:28:36.000 Because nobody wants to see a woman talking about politics on stage. 1.00

02:28:40.000 Very few men want to see a woman with very strong political opinions. 1.00

02:28:44.000 They're like, shut the fuck up, they get mad. 1.00

02:28:46.000 And then if you talk about sex, you talk about sex too much, oh, she's a slut. 1.00

02:28:50.000 There's all these thoughts. 0.99

02:28:52.000 That's always struck me as the unfair thing is how much guys get uncomfortable by that.

02:28:56.000 Oh, totally unfair.

02:28:58.000 Totally unfair.

02:28:59.000 Guys get real like, oh.

02:29:01.000 But it does create a situation for a woman comic that if a woman comic can navigate that, they become undeniable. 0.99

02:29:11.000 If you can navigate all those preconceived ideas that people have about you before you go on stage, but yet you still succeed at making them laugh, that's black belt shit. 1.00

02:29:20.000 That's high-level comedy. 0.98

02:29:22.000 That's what Whitney can do.

02:29:24.000 I've seen people look at her when she gets on stage, and they're like, she's hot! 1.00

02:29:30.000 She's hot! 1.00

02:29:31.000 And then she starts killing, and they're like, goddammit, she's fucking funny. 1.00

02:29:35.000 And then after a while, you just give in. 1.00

02:29:36.000 They're like, wow, she's fucking great! 0.99

02:29:38.000 And then you're laughing, you're just enjoying yourself. 0.99

02:29:40.000 But it's much more complex.

02:29:42.000 Whereas a fat guy gets on stage, and he's already funny.

02:29:46.000 He's funny-looking. 1.00

02:29:47.000 Big, fat, stupid-looking guy, and he starts talking about himself being fat, and then, you know, you got a lot of leeway. 1.00

02:29:54.000 You know, I want to return to, for a minute, you talked about after, you know, comics being in the green room, workshopping. 1.00

02:30:03.000 Mm-hmm.

02:30:05.000 If in Colorado they lose this ballot initiative about hunting bobcats and hunting mountain lions around this definition of trophy hunting, and America's hunters get together in the green room and workshop what went wrong,

02:30:22.000 I think they're going to determine that what went wrong is not...

02:30:30.000 Identifying with and fighting for people who are engaged in a specific segment of the activity that you're not engaged with.

02:30:40.000 And needing to come into the awareness that as this plays out, this will get around to impacting you.

02:30:49.000 Yes.

02:30:50.000 But you have to have that ability to do that.

02:30:51.000 This is going to get around.

02:30:53.000 The next thing that comes up is going to be something that is going to strike at you near and dear.

02:30:58.000 It's going to be bow hunting is cruel.

02:31:02.000 Unnecessarily cruel.

02:31:03.000 Right.

02:31:03.000 Yeah.

02:31:04.000 There are people that have that perspective that are hunters.

02:31:07.000 Yeah.

02:31:07.000 And then you're going to be like, you're going to freak out.

02:31:11.000 Yeah.

02:31:12.000 Yeah.

02:31:12.000 When they start coming...

02:31:13.000 This is going too far, you know?

02:31:15.000 Yeah.

02:31:15.000 Then you'll...

02:31:16.000 And you'll be the one that you ignored when other...

02:31:19.000 You'll be ignored when other traditional use practices were getting eliminated because it didn't affect you and then now here it is on your doorstep.

02:31:28.000 There's also a thing about Hunters where they're competitive in a different way than, like, say, in comparison to stand-up comics.

02:31:34.000 Because stand-up comics, you have that audience to yourself.

02:31:38.000 It's not like they killed the audience.

02:31:40.000 The audience doesn't exist anymore.

02:31:42.000 Like, I had a great audience. 1.00

02:31:43.000 Did you kill them all, you fucking piece of shit? 1.00

02:31:45.000 That's a good point. 1.00

02:31:46.000 Now they're gone.

02:31:46.000 You used them up.

02:31:47.000 Yeah.

02:31:48.000 But if, like, you go to the mountains and you kill a 400-inch bull, like, that's a 400-inch bull that's gone now. 0.50

02:31:55.000 I can't kill that bull. 0.99

02:31:56.000 Now, aw, he fucking kills all the big bulls, no bulls left. 0.99

02:32:00.000 Audiences are always there, and the more comics that are really funny, the more it makes comedy grow, and you get more audiences. 0.99

02:32:07.000 You're not assassinating them.

02:32:09.000 Yeah, but you could be competing with them on any given night, though.

02:32:13.000 You're both in Toledo on Monday.

02:32:15.000 Sort of, but when it's your opportunity, it's your opportunity.

02:32:19.000 And it's just your own shortcomings that are allowing you to fail in comparison to them.

02:32:24.000 It's not them doing something. 0.58

02:32:25.000 It's not like they're yelling at you from the side of the stage trying to fuck up your routine. 0.66

02:32:29.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:32:30.000 Yeah.

02:32:31.000 But it's like, when you have your time, that's your time.

02:32:34.000 Yeah.

02:32:35.000 I think, you know, with a bull, there's more bulls, though.

02:32:39.000 You know, it's not like there's just one.

02:32:40.000 There are, but there's not a lot of 400-inch bulls.

02:32:42.000 No.

02:32:42.000 And if you're a public land hunter, and there's a specific unit, and there's, you know, that's allocated 150 tags for a specific unit, and everybody's in there hiking out, and one guy shoots this big-ass bull, that's a big-ass bull that you're not going to be able to kill.

02:32:57.000 Yeah.

02:32:57.000 And so there's a different level of competition, because...

02:33:01.000 Even though it's a renewable resource, it's a limited resource, and there's also exceptional aspects of that resource, like an enormous animal, a very unusual, rare outlier of an animal, that if someone kills it, now you can't.

02:33:13.000 So there's that competition. 0.95

02:33:15.000 And then there's also the fucking dick measuring thing, where guys are taking grip and grins. 0.99

02:33:21.000 You know, one of the things that's really disturbing to me is the numbers thing. 0.99

02:33:24.000 You know, I was talking to a friend of mine who was a guide, And he was furious because this guy, who is this well-known hunter, shot a mule deer.

02:33:35.000 And it was a beautiful mule deer.

02:33:37.000 But it was only 189 inches.

02:33:41.000 He wanted a 190?

02:33:42.000 He wanted a 200-inch.

02:33:44.000 Oh.

02:33:44.000 And he didn't think of it as like, he's like, it's just a buck.

02:33:48.000 It's just a buck. 1.00

02:33:48.000 And this guy was like, I would cut off my left nut to shoot that fucking buck. 1.00

02:33:52.000 And this guy is this rich, famous hunter who goes in and he's complaining about it. 1.00

02:33:57.000 He's not even appreciating this thing.

02:34:00.000 Ah, it's a buck.

02:34:00.000 Just a buck.

02:34:01.000 Just a buck.

02:34:02.000 That's a giant buck.

02:34:03.000 It's a giant old seven, eight-year-old deer.

02:34:06.000 That's a giant deer.

02:34:07.000 Yeah, but it's funny.

02:34:09.000 I'll get something.

02:34:10.000 I have a lot of stuff that I've never measured, never will.

02:34:14.000 I got a really nice moose this year.

02:34:16.000 No one measures.

02:34:18.000 I should say no one.

02:34:19.000 Pretty much no one measures moose.

02:34:21.000 You talk about how wide they are, and you leave it at that.

02:34:24.000 But I will have stuff where now and then someone's around me that likes to do that, and I'll be like, dude, measure that thing.

02:34:30.000 I'm just curious about it.

02:34:32.000 I don't hate the...

02:34:34.000 It's a point of reference.

02:34:35.000 Yeah, I don't hate the number system.

02:34:37.000 I'm curious about all aspects of...

02:34:40.000 All aspects of hunting and wildlife and the Boone and Crockett system is of interest to me.

02:34:47.000 I don't live and die by it.

02:34:48.000 At times, I'm not curious what that is, but if someone shot a real stomper, I might be like, what did it tape out to?

02:34:58.000 That's what I do, too.

02:35:00.000 I don't necessarily care about what...

02:35:01.000 If I kill something, it's just because...

02:35:03.000 I just was there. 0.64

02:35:05.000 Mature animal.

02:35:05.000 I'm not thinking about, is this 400?

02:35:07.000 Is this anything?

02:35:09.000 No.

02:35:09.000 And I said this the other day in talking to Waddell.

02:35:11.000 It's like, you know, people talk about that you get great opportunities to hunt.

02:35:16.000 You know, I mean, that's just all there is to it.

02:35:18.000 But I said, Joe, I've never heard Joe talk about a score of something or he didn't want to kill it because I said he doesn't care.

02:35:26.000 There's been one antlered elk that he's like, he would kill it.

02:35:32.000 I've tried to.

02:35:33.000 The guides pulled me off.

02:35:35.000 I'm like, I don't care.

02:35:36.000 I'm going to eat that.

02:35:37.000 And he's a big bull.

02:35:39.000 I think it's kind of cool when they have broken antlers.

02:35:41.000 It doesn't bother me at all.

02:35:42.000 People will take shots at you because you killed a giant bull and this and that, and they've been hunting their whole lives. 0.99

02:35:48.000 It's like, you don't give a fuck. 1.00

02:35:50.000 You just want to hunt. 1.00

02:35:51.000 You're hunting.

02:35:52.000 And you don't care what it scores.

02:35:53.000 You're not after the biggest bull on the mountain.

02:35:55.000 You just love hunting.

02:35:57.000 And that's the truth.

02:35:59.000 People can turn it into whatever they want.

02:36:01.000 They're wrong.

02:36:02.000 I'm like Daniel Boone, man.

02:36:03.000 I go to the best hunting place I can go.

02:36:06.000 Yeah, you should.

02:36:07.000 Who wouldn't?

02:36:09.000 I don't know many people that if they said, hey man, we're going to go on family vacation and we found this sweet spot, but then we got to thinking we should actually go to family vacation in a shitty spot.

02:36:19.000 Yeah.

02:36:20.000 Well, it's also...

02:36:21.000 It's the same thing that we were talking about with jealousy. 1.00

02:36:24.000 If those people had the resources that I have, and if you didn't do what I do, you're a moron. 0.99

02:36:29.000 You don't go to the places where there's elk screaming all over the place and it's awesome? 0.99

02:36:33.000 Yeah, I'm always looking for good opportunities.

02:36:35.000 I mean, I'll take the shitty ones, too, because I'm looking to get out all the time.

02:36:38.000 So I'll take the shitty ones, I'll take the good ones, but I'm going to generally...

02:36:42.000 If I'm at a fork in the trail...

02:36:46.000 And one side is, like, good and one side's bad.

02:36:49.000 I'm going up the good one.

02:36:51.000 A hundred percent of the time.

02:36:52.000 Yeah.

02:36:54.000 It's just a resource thing.

02:36:56.000 You know, like, do you have the ability to do that?

02:36:58.000 If you don't, you might criticize people to do.

02:37:01.000 Oh, ever since I was a little kid.

02:37:03.000 I did the best thing, you know?

02:37:08.000 I went to the best spot I could get my hands on.

02:37:10.000 Find the best fishing hole always.

02:37:12.000 Whatever it's like.

02:37:13.000 Yeah.

02:37:13.000 I mean, you're right.

02:37:15.000 It's a resource thing.

02:37:16.000 Because when I started, where I killed that spike bull that I talked about earlier, that was Warehouse or Timber Company land.

02:37:22.000 Anybody could go there.

02:37:24.000 Everybody could go there.

02:37:25.000 Freaking hard hunting. 0.98

02:37:27.000 To kill a bull with a bow, so hard up there. 0.76

02:37:30.000 That was as tough as it got, right?

02:37:32.000 So then I'm like, well, God, we could go to the wilderness.

02:37:36.000 It's more open.

02:37:37.000 It's on the east side of the state where I was hunting the west side of the state.

02:37:39.000 The bulls are more vocal.

02:37:41.000 It's the high country.

02:37:42.000 That's better hunting.

02:37:43.000 God, but that cost...

02:37:45.000 We've got to drive all the way eight hours across the state.

02:37:47.000 We need gas money.

02:37:48.000 We need food when we're there.

02:37:49.000 We're not just going home every night.

02:37:50.000 But it was better hunting.

02:37:52.000 So, yeah.

02:37:53.000 Roy sold a gun.

02:37:54.000 We got some money.

02:37:55.000 We drove over there.

02:37:57.000 Better hunting. 1.00

02:37:58.000 Then it was like, shit, Oregon... 1.00

02:38:01.000 Oregon sucks hunting-wise compared to other states. 1.00

02:38:03.000 It's like, I wonder if I could hunt Wyoming, put in for a general tag in Wyoming, drew it, killed a 6x6 bull. 0.98

02:38:12.000 Next time I drew it, killed a 7x6. 1.00

02:38:14.000 I'm like, God, this is so much better than Oregon, but it's $1,100 for this premium elk tag that I was putting in for.

02:38:20.000 Got to work a little harder.

02:38:21.000 Got to come up with some more resource.

02:38:22.000 You said it's a resource that you're allocating.

02:38:26.000 Worked a little harder.

02:38:27.000 That was better hunting.

02:38:28.000 It's just that process.

02:38:30.000 I started with the shittiest hunting you can get in the shittiest state to hunt.

02:38:33.000 Maybe Washington's about as bad. 0.60

02:38:35.000 No, my state was way shittier than your state.

02:38:38.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:38:40.000 But you keep working for these... 0.97

02:38:42.000 Don't you give me shitty state stuff. 0.99

02:38:46.000 Michigan? 0.99

02:38:47.000 Is that where?

02:38:48.000 I'll tease it, but no.

02:38:49.000 I had it quite good.

02:38:51.000 I'm just joking with you.

02:38:52.000 But that's how people think.

02:38:53.000 No, it is true.

02:38:54.000 You're right.

02:38:55.000 But anyway, the point is, you keep working, you keep moving up the ladder to get to better hunting.

02:39:00.000 Yeah.

02:39:01.000 Now, it crosses a line, and I do understand when people are killing high-fence animals in small properties, and they're making it look like this is a wild animal.

02:39:12.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:39:12.000 There comes a line, and that line gets crossed all the fucking time right here in Texas. 0.98

02:39:18.000 Yeah, I don't like- Because I know people that have- I know a guy who has a 200-acre high-fence property, and I'm like, ooh. 0.97

02:39:26.000 Yeah, that's rough.

02:39:28.000 I don't think I can go there.

02:39:28.000 That's rough.

02:39:29.000 I can't go there.

02:39:30.000 If you have a- 15, 20,000 acre high fenced property.

02:39:34.000 I'm like, okay, what are the odds those animals, unless it's a mule deer, it's a migratory animal, what are the odds those animals would ever get out of that 15,000 acres in their normal natural life?

02:39:44.000 As long as you're not feeding them, if you're not like, I'm standing over a feeder waiting for them to show up at 5 p.m., as long as it's not that, it's just hunting.

02:39:53.000 And when people start talking about private land versus public, I understand the appeal.

02:39:59.000 And I understand that public land should be available to everybody, and I agree.

02:40:02.000 And I think it's an amazing thing that we have here in America, where we have these resources where any person can go to a place where you can get a general tag and go to public land and hunt.

02:40:12.000 I think it's amazing.

02:40:14.000 But you're also dealing with animals that are acting in a very unnatural way because they're highly pressured.

02:40:19.000 So if you have a lot of hunters and a lot of pressured animals, you're dealing with an animal that's not acting like a wild animal.

02:40:27.000 You're dealing with something that's being constantly harassed.

02:40:30.000 And that, to me, is unnatural.

02:40:32.000 Well, that...

02:40:33.000 Then you get into, like, a history debate because you're on landscapes that have been hunted.

02:40:38.000 But I would agree that high-pressure...

02:40:47.000 Absolutely.

02:40:47.000 Changes everything about how they conduct their business.

02:40:51.000 You're also competing with other guys.

02:40:53.000 I've talked to guys that have had situations where they know that they are downwind, or they're upwind, rather.

02:41:00.000 Their wind is going to come down on an animal, but they see someone stalking that animal, and they try to get to it first.

02:41:05.000 And they know they're going to bust it. 0.99

02:41:06.000 They know it, and they don't give a fuck. 1.00

02:41:08.000 They would rather bust it than have the other guy kill it. 1.00

02:41:10.000 Yeah, that's a tough one, man. 1.00

02:41:12.000 There's so many morons that are doing it. 0.99

02:41:15.000 I think the best case scenario is human beings interacting with absolutely wild animals in a way where these animals aren't acting as Natural as they would be as if human beings didn't exist. 0.99

02:41:29.000 That's best case scenario.

02:41:31.000 Yeah, and if you can get to the most remote places That's where you can get that in the most wild places.

02:41:37.000 I will say Your example about you didn't want somebody else to kill us.

02:41:41.000 Are you going to go down?

02:41:42.000 I've probably done that before.

02:41:44.000 When I was hunting, it's like every man for himself.

02:41:49.000 I've raised people.

02:41:51.000 I've also backed out of races.

02:41:53.000 It just felt too weird.

02:41:55.000 I'm like, I'm not going to do this.

02:41:56.000 Because I remember, here's how much I wanted to protect my...

02:42:01.000 In that same logging country, I would go out and the road would end maybe...

02:42:05.000 I don't want to drive out to the logging unit because that's going to spook all the deer, especially in the headlights before it's light and you're out there waiting.

02:42:12.000 So I'd park like half a mile back and walk out there.

02:42:16.000 But I didn't want anybody else driving out there, so I'd park in the middle of the road sideways, leave my truck there.

02:42:21.000 It's like, I'm not saying you can't come out there, but you're not driving.

02:42:26.000 People... 1.00

02:42:27.000 People lost their shit. 1.00

02:42:29.000 I mean, I would hear gunshots going off of my truck. 1.00

02:42:32.000 Then I'm like, fuck, are they shooting my truck? 0.99

02:42:35.000 Or are they going to shoot me? 1.00

02:42:37.000 So I did a lot of this crazy stuff.

02:42:40.000 I mean, I'm very competitive.

02:42:42.000 I did want to also clarify one point.

02:42:44.000 Because you said animals on 15,000 acres wouldn't be reacting.

02:42:50.000 They wouldn't know they were an offense type thing. 0.99

02:42:52.000 Because I've seen people say crazy shit about... 0.99

02:42:56.000 Or are hunting. 0.99

02:42:57.000 But the bulls you kill are not an offense.

02:43:00.000 No, there's no offense.

02:43:00.000 I've never been an offense.

02:43:01.000 No.

02:43:01.000 Always been fair chase.

02:43:03.000 I've even said, oh, these bulls are on beta blockers. 1.00

02:43:06.000 Some crazy bullshit. 1.00

02:43:07.000 Beta blockers? 1.00

02:43:08.000 Beta blockers.

02:43:09.000 On bulls?

02:43:11.000 To limit their adrenaline spike?

02:43:13.000 I don't even know what the hell it'd do.

02:43:15.000 Beta blockers, like athletes, can't use them. 0.98

02:43:18.000 And there's certain sports.

02:43:19.000 They should not be scared.

02:43:20.000 Yeah, it kills your adrenaline spike. 1.00

02:43:22.000 People say crazy shit. 1.00

02:43:23.000 I don't want them turning in that you were... 1.00

02:43:26.000 Validating a big high fenced area.

02:43:29.000 No, I've never done that.

02:43:30.000 I don't do that.

02:43:31.000 The bulls you're hunting are wild, fair chase.

02:43:35.000 There's predators around.

02:43:36.000 There's lions.

02:43:36.000 There's bears.

02:43:38.000 I mean, this is wild elk. 1.00

02:43:40.000 I just want to make that clear because people say crazy shit. 0.99

02:43:44.000 Maybe even 15,000 acres is not a good example. 0.99

02:43:46.000 Let's say the 4-6 ranch that my friend Taylor Sheridan owns.

02:43:51.000 It's 270,000 acres.

02:43:54.000 Wow.

02:43:55.000 Yeah.

02:43:55.000 Really?

02:43:56.000 Yeah.

02:43:56.000 He hasn't fenced that.

02:43:58.000 No.

02:43:58.000 God, that would be a lot of money in a fence.

02:44:00.000 You know what I'm saying? 1.00

02:44:00.000 But even if he did, you know, that's like, the fuck? 1.00

02:44:05.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:44:05.000 Like, that's where they live. 0.99

02:44:07.000 You know?

02:44:07.000 You just put a fence to keep other people from going in.

02:44:09.000 You're really not...

02:44:10.000 That's like natural habitat.

02:44:12.000 Yeah, I mean, the whole karma is fenced in by oceans.

02:44:16.000 You could look at it that way.

02:44:18.000 I've never done it, and I've had, like...

02:44:23.000 Occasion to debate people about it, but maybe I used to be a little friskier about arguing about all the finer points, but I haven't done it.

02:44:37.000 I don't really think about it.

02:44:39.000 It's not the same thing.

02:44:40.000 When I talk to guys who hunt out here, and most of them are pretty honest about it, the way they do it, like the hunt over feeders.

02:44:47.000 These are not people that hunt a lot.

02:44:48.000 They don't practice a lot.

02:44:50.000 But when they get a chance, it's essentially like a kind of harvesting animals.

02:44:53.000 It's almost like a type of farming.

02:44:55.000 If you're hunting over a feeder, they'll put you in a tree stand and say, alright, the feeder goes off at 5 o'clock.

02:45:01.000 You're like, what?

02:45:02.000 It's a collision of husbandry and animal husbandry.

02:45:06.000 Of hunting and animal husbandry where you're using the sort of harvest tactics of hunting, but you're employing a lot of the principles of animal husbandry.

02:45:15.000 Yeah.

02:45:16.000 It's not the same thing.

02:45:17.000 It's not going into the mountains like we do.

02:45:20.000 We're hunting in Utah or you're going to Colorado.

02:45:22.000 You're going in the mountains.

02:45:24.000 Yeah, well...

02:45:24.000 These are wild animals.

02:45:25.000 They're unfenced.

02:45:27.000 And to that point, it's not guaranteed.

02:45:29.000 Not at all.

02:45:30.000 I mean, when we were there this last season, it's great property.

02:45:34.000 I mean, nobody could argue that it's incredible elk hunting.

02:45:37.000 But there was hunters the week we were there who didn't kill.

02:45:40.000 The week after we were there, seven guys did not kill.

02:45:44.000 Well, the week we were there, only three did.

02:45:48.000 Only three guys killed a bow.

02:45:50.000 People make it sound like it's just shooting fish in a barrel guaranteed 100%.

02:45:54.000 How many hunters were there the week we were there?

02:45:57.000 I'm not sure.

02:46:00.000 There had to be 30. I don't know.

02:46:04.000 It's a big piece of property. 0.97

02:46:05.000 And it's fucking hard, man. 0.99

02:46:07.000 And you've got to be in shape. 0.99

02:46:09.000 Yeah.

02:46:09.000 We put in miles.

02:46:10.000 Miles.

02:46:11.000 Ten miles a day.

02:46:12.000 Ten miles a day.

02:46:13.000 Through the mountains. 0.97

02:46:14.000 At the end of the day, you're fucking exhausted and you're eating everything you can get in your face. 0.99

02:46:18.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:46:18.000 You're so tired. 0.99

02:46:19.000 And then you're getting up in the morning and you're doing it again.

02:46:21.000 And the idea that somehow or another that's cheating...

02:46:25.000 You can think that if you like.

02:46:27.000 But if you do it and you go there, you won't think that.

02:46:29.000 If you go there, you're like, oh, this is just an amazing opportunity in a beautiful landscape where wild animals live unmolested.

02:46:39.000 There's still lions there.

02:46:40.000 Oh, the one that we saw.

02:46:42.000 That was the first time I ever saw a full-grown, big-ass cat in the wild.

02:46:46.000 I was like, wow!

02:46:47.000 I got to watch one miss a deer down in Mexico this year.

02:46:50.000 It was really cool.

02:46:52.000 Watched him come in.

02:46:53.000 It was a doe.

02:46:55.000 She was traveling.

02:46:56.000 I watched him come in ahead of her and he kept looking down and trying to guess her trajectory and got and laid down and then missed her.

02:47:06.000 Did he go after her and missed her?

02:47:08.000 I mean, when it was like a ball of fur, dude, and she comes squirt.

02:47:12.000 Well, I'm kind of simplifying it, where there was a forky I didn't know about, and she got up right next to this forky, and then the lion blew out, and kind of first tried to roll that forky, and then sort of sprang out of that and tried to get the doe.

02:47:30.000 But it was like he was flock shooting.

02:47:33.000 Oh, he didn't have a target.

02:47:35.000 If you asked him, he probably had a target.

02:47:37.000 But man, they ran like hell.

02:47:39.000 Wow.

02:47:39.000 It was cool to see, dude.

02:47:40.000 That was the second lion I saw that night.

02:47:42.000 Oh, wow.

02:47:42.000 That was a rarity.

02:47:44.000 When I was in Colorado this year, in the week that I was there, I killed a bull, buck, and a bear in that week.

02:47:51.000 I saw four lions.

02:47:52.000 Hmm.

02:47:53.000 So many lions in that country.

02:47:55.000 That's a lifetime supply for seeing them without dogs.

02:47:58.000 It was insane, but it's, yeah.

02:48:02.000 I was going to say, that story reminds me of, you said the flock shooting?

02:48:06.000 I remember this old guy coming back to hunting camp when I first started.

02:48:09.000 He's like, you see anything?

02:48:10.000 He's like, yeah, yeah.

02:48:13.000 So I got on a good herd.

02:48:14.000 I said, did you get a shot?

02:48:15.000 He's like, yeah, yeah.

02:48:17.000 What happened?

02:48:18.000 He's like, well, I shot over some and I shot under some.

02:48:25.000 I could just envision that there's a herd and try to get an arrow in one of them. 0.99

02:48:32.000 Can you imagine being a Native American with a fucking handmade bow chasing after those things? 1.00

02:48:40.000 I bet shit didn't spook 200 yards away back then. 1.00

02:48:42.000 I bet it. 1.00

02:48:42.000 Yeah, that's true. 1.00

02:48:44.000 The first...

02:48:46.000 I'm trying to think, man.

02:48:47.000 The first three or so deer I got, I got on when I was a kid.

02:48:52.000 I killed the first deer when I was 13. The first three or so deer I got, I got all on private property.

02:48:57.000 And then I killed, I went into the White River, kind of the, we used to call it the White River Swamp, but down on National Forest land and killed a fawn one October with my bow.

02:49:12.000 And People didn't celebrate public land hunting then.

02:49:16.000 It was like you were slumming it.

02:49:19.000 You were there because you didn't know any farmers.

02:49:24.000 If you went out on public land in Michigan and you went to anybody that was on public land and said, hey, do you want to hunt the farm over there?

02:49:32.000 No one is like, out of principle, by God, I'm staying here.

02:49:35.000 They would go to the farm.

02:49:37.000 But when I did get that fawn deer, which I killed over a bait pile in the White River swamp, It felt good, man.

02:49:48.000 You know what I mean?

02:49:48.000 I was aware of having did this thing that I would have regarded as almost semi-impossible to pull that off.

02:49:59.000 I have a deep respect for people that can shoot mature animals on public land.

02:50:04.000 That is very hard to do.

02:50:06.000 And I get that you would have a higher sense of pride.

02:50:09.000 I totally get it.

02:50:11.000 I've gotten a handful.

02:50:13.000 I've gotten four big mule deer.

02:50:18.000 Nice mule deer.

02:50:19.000 I've never killed a mule deer on private property.

02:50:23.000 And I got four good mule deer on public property.

02:50:25.000 And I can't deny that that sort of means a thing to me.

02:50:33.000 Not that I wouldn't.

02:50:35.000 Tomorrow, if I drew some tag in some area and some guy's like, oh, hunt my ranch.

02:50:39.000 I'd go hunt that ranch all day long.

02:50:41.000 But it just happens that that's true, and I don't look at it and think differently of it the same way all kinds of factors play into it.

02:50:51.000 But every year, I've gotten some big coos deer, and all the coos deer I've killed on big private ranches in Mexico, except for Arizona.

02:51:00.000 But I've gotten a nice deer on big private ranches in Mexico and loved the experience.

02:51:06.000 I'm into all that stuff, man.

02:51:07.000 Yeah, I get why people would think a certain way because it's very similar in a lot of ways to bow hunting versus rifle hunting.

02:51:14.000 If you see someone that kills a big bull with a rifle, you're like, yeah, that's a big bull, man.

02:51:21.000 That's awesome.

02:51:21.000 But if you see someone that kills a big bull with a bow, you're like, whoa, that's a bigger deal.

02:51:25.000 It feels way different.

02:51:28.000 As someone who shot bulls with rifles and shot bull with a bow and arrow, you cannot compare.

02:51:33.000 The way it makes me feel, when I make a perfect 52-yard shot and I watch that arrow go into the crease behind the shoulder and you watch that bull buck up and you know you got him, you're like, woo!

02:51:47.000 It's like there's nothing like it.

02:51:49.000 There's nothing like it.

02:51:51.000 There's nothing.

02:51:52.000 I was hunting with Evan Hafer from Black Rifle Coffee this past October.

02:51:56.000 We were both elk hunting at this ranch.

02:51:58.000 And I shot this bull.

02:52:00.000 And it was like on the fifth day of a six-day hunt.

02:52:04.000 It was a lot of huffing. 0.99

02:52:05.000 There was a lot of fucking missed opportunities. 0.99

02:52:07.000 A lot of getting winded. 1.00

02:52:08.000 A lot of shit went down. 0.99

02:52:10.000 But when I finally snuck in, and it was a long-ass stalk, it was like... 1.00

02:52:16.000 It took me an hour and a half to cover about 40 or 50 yards because the elk was bedded and I was barefoot.

02:52:25.000 I was just in my socks and I was just slowly creeping, slowly creeping.

02:52:31.000 And every time he'd move his head, I'd stop.

02:52:32.000 And I was slowly creeping. 0.98

02:52:34.000 When I finally released that arrow, and it hit that bull, and I heard that whack, and the bull literally ran 30, 40 yards and piled up, the woo that I let out, you could have heard it a fucking mile away. 0.73

02:52:49.000 They heard it on the other side of the canyon. 0.95

02:52:51.000 They were watching with binoculars, and they heard, whoa!

02:52:55.000 Because it's so different. 0.80

02:52:57.000 If I shot it with a rifle, I'd still be pumped.

02:52:59.000 It's a beautiful bowl. 0.96

02:53:00.000 It's meat.

02:53:00.000 I'm psyched.

02:53:01.000 I got all this food now.

02:53:02.000 This is incredible.

02:53:03.000 This is what I wanted.

02:53:04.000 This is what I was working for.

02:53:05.000 But it's harder.

02:53:06.000 It's harder to do on public land.

02:53:08.000 It's harder to do with a bow.

02:53:09.000 There's all these little factors.

02:53:12.000 Any accomplishment, there's all these little factors that wind up...

02:53:19.000 Essentially.

02:53:20.000 An elevating experience or some other thing.

02:53:23.000 And then you get into where I'm at now in life where, for me, the most elevated experience is to witness my kids do something.

02:53:32.000 To take my kids hunting.

02:53:33.000 Well, Cam always talks about his favorite experiences when he takes people for their first time.

02:53:38.000 You were telling me about the time you took that woman.

02:53:40.000 Yeah, Cat.

02:53:42.000 Yeah.

02:53:42.000 And she shot that deer and you guys are eating it.

02:53:44.000 Like, is it getting any better than this?

02:53:46.000 No.

02:53:46.000 You introduce something to this thing that you love, you have deep passion for.

02:53:49.000 They get to experience.

02:53:50.000 You see them get lit up.

02:53:51.000 I mean, you've done that so many times, I'm sure.

02:53:54.000 Oh, I wanted to take Steve on that hunt.

02:53:56.000 I think I mentioned that to you.

02:53:57.000 Yeah, we had a text about that.

02:53:58.000 Yeah, that was...

02:53:58.000 So I missed out?

02:53:59.000 You missed out.

02:54:00.000 You're done.

02:54:01.000 That's it.

02:54:02.000 But, no, I just...

02:54:03.000 Especially that one, because that's Oregon blacktail, which I grew up hunting in Western Oregon.

02:54:07.000 So I really love sharing...

02:54:09.000 You know, the small little logging community, the badass loggers there that are tough as hell.

02:54:15.000 Just that little Western Oregon vibe.

02:54:17.000 I love sharing that.

02:54:19.000 But then she also killed a big 4x4 buck with the eye guards. 1.00

02:54:24.000 Just this old, big old buck.

02:54:27.000 Then we, of course, packed it out as a steep logging unit.

02:54:31.000 Then we cooked it up the next morning.

02:54:34.000 Definitely the highlight, I killed quite a few animals this year.

02:54:38.000 None better than that.

02:54:39.000 That was the highlight.

02:54:40.000 I didn't kill it.

02:54:41.000 Yeah.

02:54:42.000 But it was just that experience.

02:54:43.000 It's, yeah, there's nothing, you know, and my kids, I took Truett the same, he killed a buck down there too this year.

02:54:49.000 So yeah, it's a, you know, you get to where, and I said I was very competitive, very tunnel vision.

02:54:55.000 It was all about me.

02:54:57.000 And that, you know, with age, that changes.

02:55:00.000 And then you're like, no, I want to, I want to share this with people.

02:55:03.000 Yeah.

02:55:03.000 So it's a, Well, if you don't do that, how are they going to find out?

02:55:08.000 And one of the things that you've talked about so many times, Steve, is the barrier to entry.

02:55:12.000 For someone who's like, they're thinking about hunting.

02:55:14.000 Like, I thought about it for years.

02:55:16.000 My wife used to go crazy because I would be at home watching Spirit of the Wild.

02:55:22.000 Why are you watching Ted Nugent?

02:55:24.000 And I'm like, I want to figure out how to do this someday.

02:55:27.000 And then I watch your show.

02:55:28.000 I've got to be here in case he plays Fred Bear.

02:55:31.000 The Whackmaster. 0.56

02:55:32.000 When I first saw your original show, The Wild Within, right?

02:55:35.000 That was what it was called?

02:55:35.000 When I first saw that show, I was like, oh, I want to talk to that guy.

02:55:38.000 And that was before Meat Eater even started.

02:55:41.000 And then when you invited me to come hunting with you, I was like, oh...

02:55:45.000 Finally, now I can figure this out. 0.99

02:55:47.000 But if it wasn't for that, having someone like you to show me how to do it and take me out and to have you be my guide, like, fuck, what are the odds? 0.97

02:55:56.000 I'll see people making, like, young hunters or people just starting to hunt. 0.98

02:56:00.000 Now I'll see them make horrible decisions, you know?

02:56:04.000 We're like, oh, I think I'm going up there in the morning.

02:56:06.000 And on one hand, I'll feel bad.

02:56:11.000 I'll be like, oh my god, it's a horrible idea.

02:56:13.000 On the other hand, I'm like, dude, yes!

02:56:16.000 Like, that's all the stuff that I had to do when I was figuring anything out.

02:56:20.000 Yeah.

02:56:20.000 Like, hats off to you, dude.

02:56:22.000 Yeah.

02:56:23.000 You're going to get up and go, like, you don't know it, but you're getting up early, you're going to go try something. 0.98

02:56:27.000 I recognize that that's the dumbest thing you could possibly do, but, like, that's how you do it, man. 0.97

02:56:31.000 That's how you learn. 0.99

02:56:38.000 Well, they're just going to take it on.

02:56:40.000 And then some people are going to sit and be like, I don't have it in me to really figure this hard-ass thing out.

02:56:47.000 Well, until you've experienced success, it's very difficult to justify the work and it seems insurmountable.

02:56:54.000 And for a lot of people that don't have someone like you or someone like you taking them out, it's almost insurmountable because there's so many things you have to learn.

02:57:01.000 It's not intuitive.

02:57:02.000 It's something that you have to figure out through trial and error or you have to read a lot or watch a lot of videos and absorb all that information.

02:57:09.000 Yeah, mostly it's you have to learn it yourself, you know, because you can read.

02:57:13.000 Reading helps, watching helps, talking helps.

02:57:17.000 You just got, just as you said, that's how they learn.

02:57:20.000 They get out there, they do it themselves, and then they're like, God, well, that didn't work.

02:57:24.000 Now what?

02:57:25.000 And that's how you learn.

02:57:26.000 That's what's hard about hunting with that barrier to entry is that experience accumulates slow for most people.

02:57:35.000 Like, when I was hunting back home, I would get a week for elk, so a week a year.

02:57:41.000 And that's it.

02:57:42.000 You know, so I had to go out, take photos, try to be out there amongst them, learn body language, learn what they like to do.

02:57:49.000 And that takes years.

02:57:50.000 So when somebody comes in late, they can't shortcut that experience part.

02:57:54.000 We were lucky to grow up doing it.

02:57:57.000 And now we're in a position where we can share it.

02:57:59.000 But it's tough if you didn't grow up doing it.

02:58:02.000 Yeah, there's a few places people will teach you how to do it.

02:58:06.000 You know, Jesse Griffiths has that school.

02:58:07.000 What is it called?

02:58:08.000 New school style.

02:58:09.000 What is it?

02:58:10.000 What is it again?

02:58:11.000 His school?

02:58:12.000 But he has a literal, like, limited edition...

02:58:15.000 It's not the new school, but that's in it.

02:58:16.000 Yeah, something.

02:58:18.000 So he has...

02:58:18.000 Jamie will pull it up.

02:58:19.000 But he has a program where he'll take you, he'll teach you how to shoot, he'll teach you how to hunt, he'll teach you how to butcher, teach you how to cook.

02:58:26.000 The whole thing.

02:58:27.000 He'll take you through the whole process.

02:58:29.000 That's so valuable.

02:58:30.000 If there's something that you can do, and especially with a renewable resource like PIGS, Yeah.

02:58:34.000 New school of traditional cooking.

02:58:36.000 An emeritus is like a somewhat contradictory new school of traditional cooking.

02:58:40.000 But that's so valuable, where someone can take you through the whole process, and there's not a lot of that available, unfortunately.

02:58:49.000 And even if it was available, it would be very difficult to screen applicants to make sure that it's even worth taking your time.

02:58:56.000 Because if you've got a guy and he's 50, 60 pounds overweight and got a bad knee, and you want to take him on a mule deer hunt in the mountains, we can't really do this.

02:59:07.000 You're going to have to lose weight.

02:59:08.000 You're going to have to get in shape.

02:59:09.000 You're going to have to figure out a way to be able to get to where these animals are.

02:59:12.000 Or get into something different.

02:59:13.000 This is not an easy task.

02:59:15.000 I think the truth, like, there's an area, and I don't think everyone needs to get there, there's an area of expertise or a level of expertise that I think is admirable, and it's, you know, you learn how to hunt some particular spot, and that's your hunting spot,

02:59:33.000 and you get it really figured out, and that's a wonderful journey, and that's really good.

02:59:37.000 I think that getting to the point where you get that place and thing that you're comfortable at, And then you go and be like, okay, I'm going to take whatever it is I learned there and try to apply it to something totally different.

02:59:49.000 And figure that different thing out.

02:59:52.000 And get where you're good at these spots and these things, but you become good at deciphering, figuring out, and being able to move into totally new things and carry that accumulative knowledge into these new spots.

03:00:09.000 That becomes pretty fun.

03:00:11.000 And I regard that as being, not better, but a high level of expertise.

03:00:18.000 Well, there's also variables that maybe some people that are successful in other disciplines don't recognize as they enter into this new world that there's different parameters.

03:00:27.000 Like, for instance, if you got someone who's a successful whitetail hunter that hunts out of a tree stand, a really good archer, But they're used to shooting a 65-pound bow with a 350-grain arrow, and they're used to shooting these animals that are fairly small.

03:00:42.000 And then you take them on an elk hunt, and you're like, hey, that setup, this three-blade mechanical with a 60-pound bow, you're shooting a fucking enormous animal with huge bones. 0.74

03:00:55.000 You might not even get through the ribs with that thing. 0.95

03:00:57.000 You might center a rib, and that's a wrap.

03:01:00.000 You have to recognize you're dealing with a totally different thing, and you can't just be weak.

03:01:06.000 You have to be physically strong.

03:01:08.000 You have to be capable of making it to...

03:01:09.000 You're not going to sit in a tree stand.

03:01:11.000 You've got to change everything about the way you approach it.

03:01:14.000 Yeah, you got very successful with this one aspect of this thing, but you've got a whole new thing now you have to apply it to, and if you don't, you're going to wound animals.

03:01:24.000 You're going to have problems, or you're going to just not be successful at all.

03:01:28.000 I remember the first time I went out with a guy deep dropping for swordfish, so I watched a guy catch a couple swordfish in 1,300 feet of water, and I realized I knew nothing about fishing.

03:01:39.000 Do you know what I mean?

03:01:41.000 That's so specific.

03:01:42.000 Oh my God, man. 1.00

03:01:43.000 All the shit you think you know that you go out there, and you're like, you're not going to catch a fish out here. 1.00

03:01:49.000 You can't do that. 0.99

03:01:51.000 But nowadays with fishing, you know, Steve, I sent you that thing the other day where the guy had a screen on his phone and there was some sort of a camera attached to his line.

03:02:03.000 Oh, that guy.

03:02:04.000 Yeah, that was crazy.

03:02:05.000 Wild!

03:02:05.000 So this guy cast out, and he's looking at a screen with a lid over it to shield the sun on his rod as he's reeling.

03:02:14.000 He's seeing the fish coming towards his bait.

03:02:17.000 Yeah, not like ice fishing with a camera, but he has a camera of He's casting and has a camera watching fish interact with his bait while he does a retrieve.

03:02:29.000 I've never seen that before.

03:02:32.000 I was like, this is great.

03:02:33.000 But the things that I sent you, the ice fishing guys, that's nuts, man. 0.99

03:02:37.000 They got fucking cameras down there and a fully heated shack where they're watching television. 0.98

03:02:44.000 I'll tell you, my kid don't want to ice fish without the camera. 1.00

03:02:48.000 Well, it's an added element.

03:02:50.000 You see the fish, you're like, this is so cool.

03:02:52.000 You can watch them sneak up to it.

03:02:55.000 It reminds me, there's something new in hunting now, which I don't like, but it's that...

03:03:02.000 The heat-seeking binoculars.

03:03:05.000 I think it's heat-seeking.

03:03:06.000 Oh, thermals.

03:03:07.000 Thermals.

03:03:09.000 And to me...

03:03:11.000 Yeah, but you can't use it for big game hunting.

03:03:13.000 No, it's not.

03:03:14.000 There's some states where it's not...

03:03:16.000 Regulated?

03:03:17.000 It's not regulated.

03:03:17.000 They don't even mention it.

03:03:19.000 No, no, no.

03:03:19.000 You can't.

03:03:19.000 But yeah, you can't get outside illegal shooting hours.

03:03:22.000 No, but to find them.

03:03:23.000 Oh, I see what you're saying.

03:03:24.000 Are there states where you're allowed to find game with thermal?

03:03:27.000 I think it's just not disallowed.

03:03:31.000 Yeah, I got it.

03:03:31.000 It's not addressed.

03:03:32.000 Well, there's an issue now where they're banning drones that use thermal for recovery.

03:03:37.000 But I don't...

03:03:39.000 Because the argument is you're scouting too.

03:03:41.000 Of course. 1.00

03:03:41.000 You could be if you're a piece of shit. 1.00

03:03:43.000 But what guys could conceivably do, like in Oregon, as I'm talking about in Western Oregon, glassing those big, huge logging units and finding deer is an art. 1.00

03:03:52.000 I mean, it is hard to pick those things up.

03:03:54.000 But if you could just put, you know, and find the thermal register of it.

03:03:58.000 Sure.

03:03:59.000 Oh, it's right there.

03:04:00.000 And that's like a big part of killing a buck.

03:04:03.000 I don't like that.

03:04:05.000 That needs to be regulated.

03:04:06.000 Giannis was just hunting in Latvia.

03:04:08.000 And in Latvia, they get out in a clear cut. 0.94

03:04:11.000 Middle of the day, whatever.

03:04:13.000 They're going to get out in a clear cut and put a thermal up and be like, nope.

03:04:16.000 Hop back in the car and roll out.

03:04:17.000 Yeah, I don't know.

03:04:18.000 And he's like, I can't believe you guys do that.

03:04:21.000 Like, I can't believe you don't do it.

03:04:23.000 Yeah, right. 1.00

03:04:24.000 It works, stupid. 1.00

03:04:27.000 When I was in Scotland, their stag, where we were at, I was like, this is amazing. 1.00

03:04:31.000 They had a hunting ranch out there, and they said, do you want to hunt?

03:04:35.000 And I said, do you guys use rifles?

03:04:38.000 And he goes, yeah.

03:04:39.000 I go, can you use a bow?

03:04:40.000 Can I bring a bow?

03:04:41.000 And they go, no, we don't allow it in the country.

03:04:43.000 And I was like, what?

03:04:45.000 Can you watch me shoot first?

03:04:48.000 Can I talk to the governor? 0.79

03:04:51.000 Let me set up a target at 80 yards and show you.

03:04:55.000 I know what I'm doing.

03:04:57.000 Let me do this.

03:04:58.000 You can't.

03:05:00.000 Yeah, I think South Africa, there was quite a lobbying effort to allow archery equipment.

03:05:08.000 Really?

03:05:09.000 Wow.

03:05:11.000 Yeah, there's some countries over there that didn't have it.

03:05:14.000 I think Ted Nugent was involved in something about having to show how lethal it was before they would allow it.

03:05:23.000 Yeah, it was a lethality concern.

03:05:24.000 Yeah, and I don't know what it was for.

03:05:26.000 I don't know if it was for an elephant or something like that.

03:05:28.000 But isn't that always the case when people just don't know?

03:05:30.000 And you think of a bow and arrow, you're like, well, that's not as effective. 1.00

03:05:34.000 Use a gun, stupid. 1.00

03:05:35.000 You know, it's so much more effective. 1.00

03:05:37.000 When I have that conversation with people that are non-hunters, and they're like, why do you use a bow and arrow? 1.00

03:05:42.000 I go, it says you're more connected.

03:05:44.000 It's quiet.

03:05:45.000 It's like there's so many things about it that are just, it's more difficult to do.

03:05:50.000 It requires more discipline and concentration.

03:05:52.000 It's more rewarding when you do it.

03:05:54.000 Isn't a rifle better, though?

03:05:55.000 Oh, yeah.

03:05:57.000 Are you trying to get meat?

03:05:59.000 Yes.

03:05:59.000 Do you support spear hunting?

03:06:01.000 I have zero problem.

03:06:04.000 Zero problem with spear hunting.

03:06:06.000 I don't think it's going to be a thing that impacts game numbers.

03:06:09.000 Impossible. 0.98

03:06:09.000 I 100% support it with pigs. 0.98

03:06:13.000 When I say support it, I mean I feel that if you had a regulation... 0.96

03:06:18.000 I feel that...

03:06:20.000 That if someone wanted to say, we'd like to open it up that people could hunt with a spear, I would probably generally say, okay, because I don't think that this is going to be a thing that reduces opportunity.

03:06:32.000 Well, you remember the thing that happened in Canada with Josh Bomar?

03:06:35.000 They banned spear hunting because of this one controversial moment where it was totally legal.

03:06:40.000 Everything he did was totally legal.

03:06:42.000 Yeah.

03:06:43.000 Just a thing no one realized.

03:06:45.000 Because there's things that are legal, and they're legal because they're not illegal.

03:06:48.000 Right.

03:06:49.000 Right.

03:06:49.000 That's a good point.

03:06:50.000 That's a good point.

03:06:51.000 Yeah.

03:06:52.000 Yeah.

03:06:52.000 I mean, I don't want to hunt with a spear, but I get it.

03:06:55.000 But I always feel like it's a gimmick.

03:06:57.000 Like when I see someone hide in a tree and they spear a pig.

03:06:59.000 They're showing that it can be done.

03:07:00.000 Yeah.

03:07:01.000 It's kind of a gimmick.

03:07:02.000 I haven't done it.

03:07:05.000 I can't picture getting into it by any stretch, but I just don't think it...

03:07:09.000 I think it hits traditional, for sure, and then I think it's not like...

03:07:16.000 I don't think it's going to throw off population levels and lead to decreased opportunity.

03:07:25.000 No.

03:07:25.000 I don't think anyone's going to be like, the spear guys got them all.

03:07:28.000 Right.

03:07:28.000 They got all the big bulls.

03:07:29.000 Like the bow hunters. 0.97

03:07:30.000 Because they can hide in trees.

03:07:31.000 Yeah.

03:07:32.000 I mean, even if they wouldn't have made it illegal, who the hell was going to spear hunt a bear besides Josh up there?

03:07:38.000 Right. 0.98

03:07:38.000 It was just- You need a real psycho. 0.98

03:07:42.000 It caused such a stir that they had to address it, essentially.

03:07:47.000 But yeah, it wasn't going to have an impact on the population.

03:07:49.000 Yeah.

03:07:49.000 Well, it caused a stir because it was discussed publicly.

03:07:53.000 It was a social media thing.

03:07:55.000 And it gets into this weird area where some people have a really hard time with people exploiting hunting on social media because they say that you're kind of like...

03:08:07.000 You're bastardizing this beautiful thing and you're making it just like showing things on Instagram.

03:08:14.000 Just like all the other things that you show off on Instagram. 1.00

03:08:17.000 Your private jet or your big house or your fucking yachts and shit. 1.00

03:08:21.000 You're cheapening this beautiful moment. 1.00

03:08:25.000 When I was a kid, you had to go down to the local sporting goods store and staple your picture up to the brag board, man.

03:08:31.000 Yeah.

03:08:31.000 On the community brag board.

03:08:32.000 You had to go down there to see what all was happening.

03:08:35.000 Well, it's essentially just a limited version of what Instagram is.

03:08:39.000 It's a global brag board.

03:08:41.000 Yeah, but that's the thing, too.

03:08:42.000 You're not getting people that come into that local sporting goods store that don't understand hunting.

03:08:47.000 Yeah.

03:08:47.000 No, I think that is a big deal because I think – and a big deal in that we need to think about how we're presenting things.

03:08:56.000 You know, where – whatever.

03:08:58.000 If you're down at the local sporting – that's only hunters pretty much seeing that.

03:09:01.000 Just like – When you'd write an article like when I wrote for Eastman's Journal or whatever, that was just hunters.

03:09:07.000 Or if you're an outdoor channel, it's just hunters.

03:09:09.000 Nobody besides hunters is watching that.

03:09:12.000 Now, everybody's on social media.

03:09:14.000 So I think we just need to be very cognizant of what we're putting up there.

03:09:19.000 Well, you do a fantastic job of that.

03:09:20.000 And you have a very specific protocol you follow.

03:09:23.000 You know, you'll show photos of the hunt, then you'll show the meat.

03:09:26.000 You know, you'll show harvesting the meat, cleaning the meat, and then eventually you'll show a photo of the animal that you killed.

03:09:32.000 Sometimes I don't even do that.

03:09:34.000 Sometimes I just show the whatever.

03:09:37.000 Just because the grip and grins...

03:09:39.000 For some people, and I have a lot of people that follow that don't hunt, they have a hard time with those pictures.

03:09:47.000 And I'm just like, I get it.

03:09:49.000 Whatever.

03:09:50.000 You haven't grown up around this.

03:09:51.000 I have.

03:09:52.000 To me and people like me, this is part of it.

03:09:55.000 But I understand.

03:09:56.000 I've never had anybody get mad at me for cooking an elk steak.

03:09:59.000 Exactly.

03:09:59.000 And it's just not going to happen.

03:10:00.000 So it's just like, do we need to put the grip and grin up?

03:10:04.000 I mean, is it necessary?

03:10:06.000 I don't care if people do it.

03:10:08.000 I just want them to think about What they're saying when they put it up, how they do it.

03:10:13.000 To me, I lead up to it.

03:10:15.000 I show the country, the animals, the journey.

03:10:19.000 Like on this lion hunt, I actually also showed a lion killed a beef calf.

03:10:27.000 Didn't eat any of it because they killed it in the creek.

03:10:30.000 The lion wasn't big enough to drag it out of the creek.

03:10:32.000 So just left it and went and killed an elk.

03:10:34.000 That's interesting.

03:10:35.000 Followed the tracks.

03:10:37.000 For three miles and I would see the lion go and was sitting behind a tree.

03:10:42.000 All the deer tracks were there, so the lion was hunting.

03:10:46.000 And I shared all that.

03:10:48.000 That's all part of the journey.

03:10:49.000 That's all the cool stuff people...

03:10:51.000 So I say, share things like that.

03:10:53.000 And you can share your kill shot.

03:10:55.000 It's great.

03:10:55.000 But also share what else stood out from the hunt.

03:10:58.000 There's also a problem with hunting TV shows in that you're condensing something that might be seven days of 10-hour days.

03:11:05.000 In 22 minutes.

03:11:05.000 Yeah.

03:11:06.000 Yeah.

03:11:06.000 And then you want to pick the interesting 22 minutes.

03:11:11.000 It's like you randomly pull out segments out of your 100 hours of footage.

03:11:16.000 I think that's been a big benefit to tell more of the journey now that Steve's on YouTube.

03:11:23.000 His videos on YouTube have tons of views.

03:11:26.000 So he's able to explain why the hunt's important, what stood out to you.

03:11:30.000 It's a more intellectual approach to it.

03:11:33.000 Whereas you didn't really have time on an Outdoor Channel show.

03:11:36.000 You didn't have time to get into that.

03:11:38.000 Some of my favorite shows of yours on Meteor, you're unsuccessful.

03:11:41.000 And I love that you have those.

03:11:43.000 You know, I remember that one where you're getting real introspective about your father.

03:11:47.000 That's like one of my favorite episodes you ever did.

03:11:49.000 And it was just you unsuccessful hunting.

03:11:53.000 And it's like, yeah, that's also a part of it.

03:11:55.000 Like, this is not easy.

03:11:56.000 And it's often unsuccessful.

03:11:58.000 And I was always, you know, was always, am always bummed to not get something, too.

03:12:03.000 Like, I'm trying.

03:12:04.000 But we'd be, you know, back in the early days, we were making 16 shows. 0.83

03:12:10.000 So you weren't gonna, you know, if you went and spent a week busting your ass and you didn't get something, it wasn't, the option wasn't there to ditch it. 0.59

03:12:19.000 Like, we were gonna make something out of it. 0.98

03:12:20.000 And in the end, it was great.

03:12:22.000 Glad we did it.

03:12:23.000 But, uh...

03:12:25.000 I've never gone in the woods hoping to be unsuccessful.

03:12:29.000 It definitely happens.

03:12:32.000 But I always wished it was otherwise.

03:12:35.000 Of course.

03:12:37.000 But it's just the editing it down in 22 minutes.

03:12:41.000 It gives people that are on the outside a completely different perspective.

03:12:45.000 They think it's so easy.

03:12:47.000 I mean, how many times have you heard that?

03:12:48.000 If you're a real man, you'd go hunt it with a knife or something like that. 1.00

03:12:52.000 Something stupid. 1.00

03:12:53.000 Oh, what a coward. 1.00

03:12:55.000 You're shooting it from a distance with a rifle. 1.00

03:12:57.000 And in that 22 minutes, too, there's also sponsor obligations when it's on TV. So it's not even 22 minutes of hunting.

03:13:04.000 You have to have the tips and tactics brought to you by Mosler or whatever.

03:13:10.000 So it's like you get down to the hunt.

03:13:12.000 We're good to go.

03:13:33.000 Honest and relatable fashion, hopefully, and explain why it's difficult and people understand it.

03:13:38.000 What kind of restrictions has YouTube put on hunting videos now?

03:13:42.000 You can push it a little far and get dinged.

03:13:46.000 What is it pushing for? 0.95

03:13:47.000 The kill shot? 0.88

03:13:48.000 Is it blood?

03:13:49.000 No, like blood and skinning shots, any kind of graphic.

03:13:56.000 The first ding you hit is you hit a demonetization thing, right?

03:14:01.000 And then you can hit other levels of dings, and there's like a little scorecard, but oddly...

03:14:09.000 We had something like, just examples of doing a necropsy on something.

03:14:17.000 Just too graphic.

03:14:19.000 Organs, things like that.

03:14:20.000 Disassembly.

03:14:21.000 That'll get you dinged.

03:14:23.000 You can get demonetization.

03:14:25.000 I believe there's levels of demonetization you can get around...

03:14:30.000 Certain firearms issues, but the primary thing is just, like, gore.

03:14:34.000 But even put in terms of a necropsy, so I'm sure at some level it's like, I'm sure it begins as an AI thing, right?

03:14:44.000 Scouring all this footage and finds something that's, like, bloody and graphic, and at some level it gets elevated.

03:14:49.000 We've argued and gotten our stuff back.

03:14:52.000 You know, if you can get someone's ear and you can get it tested by a person and gotten it back...

03:14:58.000 But that is the primary thing, is gore.

03:15:00.000 There was talk of them eliminating kill shots.

03:15:04.000 I haven't heard that.

03:15:05.000 I think that got rescinded, but I think there were some issues.

03:15:09.000 Here it goes.

03:15:10.000 You can turn on ads for this content.

03:15:13.000 Hunting content where there's no depiction of graphic animal injuries or prolonged suffering.

03:15:18.000 Hunting videos where the moment of kill or injury is indiscernible.

03:15:22.000 And no focal footage of how this dead animal is processed for trophy or food purposes. 0.97

03:15:28.000 Boy, that's pretty fucking limited. 0.97

03:15:30.000 Yeah. 0.97

03:15:30.000 Well, like for me, I had one that was limited in age restriction. 0.97

03:15:36.000 So people 18 and under couldn't watch it.

03:15:39.000 Was it a firearms infraction?

03:15:41.000 No, no.

03:15:42.000 Just archery. 0.99

03:15:44.000 And I don't monetize any of my hunting videos because I just don't even want to deal with, oh, you're killing for fucking profit or whatever the hell. 0.83

03:15:52.000 So I'm like, I don't make any money off these. 0.63

03:15:54.000 You don't turn monetization on?

03:15:55.000 No, not for hunting.

03:15:56.000 I do it for my lift run shoot and my podcast.

03:15:59.000 But for just the hunting, I'm not...

03:16:02.000 That's a good way to...

03:16:03.000 But I still got that age restriction because of, they said, the gore.

03:16:08.000 Then there was an outfit that, what's his name, Jason?

03:16:14.000 I think Sportsman's Alliance, maybe?

03:16:16.000 But anyway, they wrote, they appealed it for me.

03:16:19.000 They got in touch with YouTube and appealed their decision and got it overturned.

03:16:24.000 So they, for people like me, or for like us, creators, they will go to bat for us and Yeah, oftentimes I've seen cases.

03:16:33.000 I remember our senator in Montana got dinged on one of the social media platforms for having a picture of him and his wife with a pronghorn.

03:16:46.000 And his account got taken down.

03:16:49.000 And the minute...

03:16:51.000 Humans became aware of this or like the right humans became aware of this.

03:16:55.000 They did like a very quick reversal.

03:16:58.000 So the way we'll generally look at it with putting up video content is we'll try to avoid demonetization because Being demonetization meaning you cross some line,

03:17:16.000 right?

03:17:16.000 But the thing is, I haven't found it to be like...

03:17:18.000 It's not like an onerous process.

03:17:20.000 I feel that it's pretty...

03:17:21.000 If you compare it to other channels of distribution, I have not found YouTube to be dramatically over-restrictive, especially compared to any kind of...

03:17:35.000 Especially compared to any kind of network parameter.

03:17:38.000 They might be bad, but they're not bad compared to anybody else.

03:17:44.000 And that one, that was Jason Quick who helped me with that.

03:17:47.000 I just remembered his last name.

03:17:48.000 But that one, I killed this bull on San Carlos, and I think I showed the lungs or where the arrow hit.

03:17:56.000 And that's what got it.

03:17:57.000 And it wasn't, once I appealed it myself, they said, no, we're upholding the restriction.

03:18:03.000 And then they did get it overturned.

03:18:05.000 It took, so it took a couple times, but still is reasonable.

03:18:09.000 And they took, they had age restrictions on other ones I didn't even know about, but I didn't notice that the viewership was down.

03:18:15.000 And, um, And so they lifted all those.

03:18:20.000 It's kind of a weird situation where, although there are many, many video platforms, YouTube essentially has an overwhelming majority of people into the point where it's almost a monopoly.

03:18:33.000 And if you have things like that that are very valuable to people, like, I want to see where the arrow hits.

03:18:41.000 I like when I see blood pouring out of an animal because I know that that's a lethal shot.

03:18:49.000 That's what you want.

03:18:51.000 It might be graphic to some people, but if I see a rage hit behind the shoulder on a deer and I see that blood squirting out as soon as the deer starts moving, I'm like, that guy got that deer.

03:19:02.000 That's a dead deer.

03:19:02.000 That's what you want.

03:19:04.000 It doesn't seem awful to me.

03:19:06.000 It seems better.

03:19:08.000 Because that's a lethal shot.

03:19:09.000 That's a successful hunt.

03:19:11.000 That's what you're trying to do.

03:19:13.000 To pretend that's not what you're trying to do...

03:19:16.000 Boy, that seems insane. 0.99

03:19:18.000 And if you're doing it only to protect the ignorant, that seems insane too. 0.96

03:19:22.000 It's like you don't have to watch those videos. 0.82

03:19:25.000 And if you're going to allow those videos on the platform, you should allow those videos to be a realistic depiction of what everybody's trying to do, which is a lethal shot on an animal.

03:19:35.000 And if you hit a lethal shot on an animal and you hit it in the vitals and you use a strong arrow with a great broadhead, you're going to get blood squirting out of it because that's what you want.

03:19:46.000 The last thing you want to see is an arrow hit an animal and no blood comes out.

03:19:52.000 Yeah.

03:19:52.000 And that's okay?

03:19:54.000 Well, and meanwhile, they show people getting killed, I think, on YouTube, don't they?

03:19:58.000 I do not know.

03:19:59.000 But they show them being injured.

03:20:02.000 Yeah, well, you see it on the war videos.

03:20:06.000 You see it blocked out or obscured.

03:20:09.000 Yeah.

03:20:11.000 Some of the hunting networks used to have self-imposed...

03:20:17.000 Restrictions that they felt were cleaning up hunting for the sake of non-hunters looking in.

03:20:25.000 And it was counterproductive because they would have a restriction that they didn't want to see raw meat.

03:20:33.000 They didn't want to see bare bone.

03:20:36.000 And so it created this sense of, when I say counterproductive, if you were looking in and watching it, We're good to go.

03:21:14.000 One of the things that I really appreciated about your shows, particularly early on, is that you have a lot of segments where you cook the meat.

03:21:20.000 And there's a lot of shows where they don't cook the meat.

03:21:23.000 That was our trademark, dude.

03:21:25.000 It's a big difference.

03:21:26.000 Big difference.

03:21:27.000 I mean, it's much more enjoyable.

03:21:29.000 Like, one of my favorite videos is you when you shot that black bear that had the blueberries.

03:21:33.000 Sure.

03:21:33.000 And you're watching, like you're explaining, like look how purple this fat is because this thing's just been gorging on blueberries.

03:21:40.000 Then you're cooking it and eating it.

03:21:42.000 That to me is like, that's a full range of what the experience of hunting is about.

03:21:47.000 I wish more people would do that.

03:21:49.000 I find now looking back on those days, it's like I sometimes look back and I'd be like, it was just shocking that that wasn't...

03:21:56.000 It's shocking that that wasn't out there more at the time.

03:22:00.000 It was something so simple and elemental, and it was just surprise people.

03:22:05.000 It was almost non-existent.

03:22:07.000 Yeah, surprise people.

03:22:08.000 On those outdoor channel shows, you very, very rarely saw someone cooking the animal that they killed.

03:22:14.000 It was, I think it was kind of assumed, just because of how we grew up.

03:22:19.000 And in magazines, they never talked about that.

03:22:21.000 You never read an article where they talked about how they processed the meat or ate it. 0.96

03:22:26.000 They'd have a recipe, a finished, like a recipe with shit you take out of the freezer, but there was an ignored part. 0.89

03:22:34.000 There was the old Fred Bear videos. 0.91

03:22:37.000 You know, Fred Bear was making videos way before we ever started hunting.

03:22:41.000 The meat was never shown.

03:22:43.000 So it was just kind of like, that's just how we learned.

03:22:46.000 Then Steve, a brilliant idea, meat eater.

03:22:50.000 Yeah.

03:22:51.000 I mean, meat eater.

03:22:52.000 Right there, you got the forks on the frickin' moose. 0.95

03:22:56.000 Yeah.

03:22:56.000 So it's like...

03:22:58.000 That was the best decision ever because it addresses that part of it, which was kind of like, it's impressive that you foresaw what might be a challenge for us, you know, explaining hunting.

03:23:11.000 So that was just like brilliant to come up with that.

03:23:13.000 But to our defense, that was never a thing.

03:23:17.000 We just knew, I mean, I read this old article, my first deer, I killed that spike that I said when I was 15. I wrote this little thing for the school newspaper and said I got 37 pounds of hamburger from it.

03:23:28.000 And I don't know why, because I don't know why I said that.

03:23:31.000 That's a great school newspaper entry.

03:23:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

03:23:34.000 Because nobody ever talked about it, but it was like...

03:23:37.000 That's hilarious.

03:23:38.000 Yeah, it was funny.

03:23:38.000 I said something like, my mom was happy because we got 37 pounds.

03:23:42.000 That's probably all we got off that deer.

03:23:43.000 It was pretty small.

03:23:44.000 Yeah.

03:23:45.000 But yeah, so I mean, it has changed.

03:23:49.000 It certainly opens people's eyes up that are non-hunters, and I think it's a very valuable addition to this whole video depiction of what hunting is all about.

03:24:00.000 And also, you're a really good cook, so you'd get really...

03:24:04.000 Involved and make some pretty cool recipes and, you know, you cook for your staff and you've got episodes like that where you cooked all these different preparations of different wild game.

03:24:15.000 It's cool.

03:24:16.000 Yeah.

03:24:16.000 It adds to it.

03:24:17.000 Well, I think you appreciate it.

03:24:19.000 Well, listen, let's wrap it up.

03:24:22.000 Let's bring this bad boy home.

03:24:24.000 Meat Eaters available.

03:24:26.000 It's essentially only online now, right?

03:24:27.000 Yep.

03:24:28.000 Yeah.

03:24:28.000 Well, we have the fast channels, but yeah, you can find everything we do on YouTube.

03:24:34.000 So, I just want to say, to me...

03:24:36.000 Huge honor.

03:24:37.000 You guys are the voices of hunting. 1.00

03:24:39.000 You're the voices of hunting, bitch. 1.00

03:24:40.000 Shut the fuck up. 1.00

03:24:41.000 No, you guys are so well versed in how to discuss and how to explain it. 1.00

03:24:45.000 As are you.

03:24:46.000 It's like, I am honored to be here and to have a podcast with Steve.

03:24:51.000 We've done a lot of podcasts, but to have all three of us here, it means a lot to me.

03:24:55.000 So thank you.

03:24:56.000 That's great.

03:24:56.000 Thank you.

03:24:57.000 It means a lot to me.

03:24:57.000 You two are the main reason why I got into hunting.

03:25:01.000 100%.

03:25:01.000 And without you, Taking me out to shoot that one mule deer that sits proudly on that table, it's changed my life.

03:25:08.000 Thanks, man.

03:25:09.000 Both of you did.

03:25:10.000 Appreciate you.

03:25:11.000 Love you, too.

03:25:12.000 All right.

03:25:13.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 09, 2024

Joe Rogan Experience #2100 - Steven Rinella & Cameron Hanes

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