On this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, the guys are joined by a very special guest, Cam Haynes, to talk about a crazy piece of jewelry and the crazy things he's done with it. Joe also talks about the time he killed a bear and turned it into a solid gold necklace, and how he got to where he is now, and why he doesn't wear rings anymore. Joe also tells the story of how he almost died in a lake, and what he did to make sure no one would be able to identify him if he was ever found dead in the lake. The guys also talk about what it's like to be a professional MMA fighter, and if it's ever okay to wear a ring made out of solid gold. And of course, they talk about the weird things they like to wear in their everyday life, like watches, necklaces, and other weird jewelry. Just pay the 2.95 postage and you're good to go! Logo by Courtney DeKorte. Theme by Mavus White. Music by PSOVOD and tyops. Art by Cody Garbrandt. Mix by Skynet. Cover art by Ian Dorsch. Produced by Matt Knott. We are working on transcribing and editing this episode and putting it on a website. If you like what you hear, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. or wherever else you re listening to this podcast. Subscribe and share it on your podcast, and we'll be sure to include it in next week's episode on the next week s episode of The Joe Rogans Podcast. Thank you! Subscribe to our podcast, Subscribe and Share it on iTunes and subscribe to our social media! Thank you for listening and Share the podcast! and spread the word out to your friends everywhere else! Cheers, Cheers! Cheers. -Joe Rogan Podcasts! -Joes Podcasts -The Jerks Podcasts - The Jerks' Journey - The Rogans' Journey Podcast - Cheers - The Crew -Jonestown Podcast - by Night Podcasts, Jon Rogan's Journey - by Gorms' Podcasts Podcast, by Night, by Jake, Rene Rinella, Jr. & Nellie, Jr., Jr., and the Rogans Crew, by Kami, Sr.
00:05:45.000I have a tooth that got knocked out and it's like one of those calves.
00:05:51.000And one time we were drinking and I, when I was younger, we were drinking and I was trying to open up.
00:05:57.000It used to be that company that made tequila that had like a sombrero for a lid.
00:06:02.000And I was opening one of these bottles and broke that fake tooth off.
00:06:07.000And all night I'm going on about how I'm getting the gold.
00:06:12.000It's gone, you know, and all night I'm like making a plan, talking all this, and I woke up in the morning and looked in the mirror and I just wanted a white, a regular white tooth bag so bad.
00:06:48.000My old man told me that during the war, guys would carry around dental picks.
00:06:55.000And he fought World War II. He said during the war they would carry it around and they would go and get the gold out of Germans' teeth and save it up in a bag.
00:07:04.000And there were certain guys who were just into it.
00:07:07.000I remember as a kid I asked him, would they ever get it from an American?
00:07:10.000He goes, that'd be a good way to get shot.
00:08:44.000Washington's false teeth were not wooden.
00:08:47.000He obtained them instead from horses, donkeys, cows, and human beings.
00:08:50.000According to his account books, 1784, emulating some of his affluent friends, he bought nine teeth from unidentified Negroes, perhaps enslaved African Americans at his beloved Mount Vernon.
00:10:15.000Get me some fucking gigantic dude who's been swinging a battle axe his whole life.
00:10:20.000They actually used the Achilles tendon, though, because it's much thicker than the original ACL. It's like 150% stronger than an initial ACL. I would do that operation again in a heartbeat.
00:10:32.000I've always told everybody, I've had my knees done both ways.
00:10:35.000I had my left knee done with a patella tendon graft, which was the most painful and took forever to recover from.
00:10:40.000And then I had my right knee done with a cadaver graft.
00:13:19.000If they say there's been a correlation between high consumption of red meat and cancer, people eat red meat five times a week are much more likely than people...
00:13:34.000What they're doing is just trying to come up with some biased interpretation of data that makes it seem more like that meat is killing you.
00:13:42.000I was trying to explain correlation, causation, all that to my kid the other night.
00:13:46.000I was telling him about stuff like this, like education levels and divorce rates, right?
00:13:54.000I'm like, no one's going to untangle what it is, but you can look at these things and see that there's something going on.
00:16:35.000I was talking this the other day with my buddy Seth where people also have a tendency to...
00:16:45.000There's so much conflicting dietary information that people also will find something aligns with their aesthetic.
00:16:53.000Or that aligns with their political sensibility.
00:16:57.000Meaning, if your general tendency is to be opposed to Meat production, certain agricultural practices, and you see an article where it says, you know, high meat diet correlates with cancer.
00:17:16.000They're going to read that with great enthusiasm.
00:18:04.000You understand the building blocks of human beings and, like, what's necessary to promote, you know, all the things that you need that only come from animal tissue, B12, collagen.
00:18:15.000There's, like, there's so much stuff that you can get from meat that you're just not going to get from anywhere else.
00:18:19.000So whenever I see an athlete That starts going on a vegan diet.
00:18:24.000I look at it the same way as like a snake handler.
00:18:26.000Like, okay, let's see how this plays out.
00:20:28.000Like, they allocate resources towards plants that need it more.
00:20:33.000There's evidence that they communicate with each other.
00:20:36.000Like, for instance, the acacia tree, which There's trees in Africa where when giraffes eat them, if they're downwind, the other trees that are downwind will start producing a potent chemical that makes their leaves taste like shit,
00:20:56.000so that they know that they're getting chewed on by, you know, oh my god, there's a giraffe in the neighborhood, start tasting like shit.
00:21:52.000How does the sound of caterpillars eating leaves change the chemical structure of these plants?
00:22:00.000How are they knowing, okay, time to let loose the poison.
00:22:04.000How are they getting it because they're downwind?
00:22:06.000But it gets so bad that animals, some animals that try to eat them, they wind up starving to death because they don't want to eat this stuff because it tastes that bad.
00:22:17.000I can see where you're going with this is that sometime down the road there's going to be some tough decisions for people who are looking for general wealth, like not wanting to harm.
00:23:11.000Like, you know, I'll hunt all manner of stuff, and I used to work as a tree surgeon and would fell trees, but at our place in southeast Alaska, which is in the coastal rainforest, and we're in an area of old growth where our stuff's at,
00:23:28.000I'm in no way condemning people to do.
00:23:32.000I would not be able to put a chainsaw on one of those trees.
00:23:36.000Like, everyone finds their sort of limits.
00:23:39.000And when I'm looking at some tree that's, whatever, 400 or 500 years old, I personally, you know, I could kill a bear without thinking about it.
00:23:48.000Not without thinking about it, but yeah, I could kill a bear and be real happy I did.
00:23:52.000Man, just I personally couldn't put a saw to one of those trees.
00:24:07.000Yeah, it ain't 400. Yeah, I mean, I was in Scotland recently, and they had this tree, like, this is the oldest tree that, you know, is in Europe.
00:24:18.000And I was like, how old's this fucking tree?
00:24:20.000And they're like, it's like a 5,000-year-old tree.
00:24:38.000When you go to Europe, Scotland was amazing.
00:24:41.000I took this trip with my wife, and we went to visit these sites where they have these stone circles that are older than Stonehenge, and they're right in front of this dude's house.
00:24:51.000Like, this dude has a house, and then there's a small street, like a two-lane street, 5,000 years old.
00:25:41.000I'll tell you what it was like when we rode horses everywhere.
00:25:45.000Hey, so, Steve, I was thinking, like, so what's the difference between a person who you said you wouldn't like to cut that tree, or you wouldn't?
00:25:56.000Yeah, but like I said, I don't say that to cast judgment on a logger that does.
00:26:07.000No, I understand that, but then there's some people who take that to, I'm just trying to, I don't know, reason with myself, because around here we've had people chain themselves to trees.
00:26:30.000Yeah, it's just, it's weird thinking about, I understand what you're saying, and I totally get that.
00:26:34.000I would probably, I think, I've never cut down a tree, I've never been a tree surgeon, but I would probably feel the same about maybe a 400 or 500 year old tree.
00:26:41.000I might be like, you know man, Cam, you cut it down.
00:27:21.000It's a tough one looking at those trees, but it does seem like...
00:27:25.000You know, some of those trees you look at, it's like you're looking at, it almost seems like some approximation of God, you know, and look at some of those old trees, man, just astounding.
00:28:20.000But yeah, it's like all these different factions of people that, Man, you'd have a hard time saying you're wrong and believing that because that's just what they believe.
00:28:28.000So it's like finding that middle ground.
00:28:30.000You know, the one thing that I never really thought of until I started hunting was the spiritual aspect of hunting.
00:28:38.000It's a part of it that it's almost indisputable.
00:28:46.000When you experience it, like when you first experience it, when you first start eating an animal that you, like the first time you ever took me hunting, when we were in Montana, and I remember when I was eating that mule deer and we were sitting over the fire, and I was like, this is so different than any meal I've ever had in my life.
00:29:07.000I know how difficult it was to do this.
00:29:10.000I know how insane their life is, that this is this wild creature that is 100% gonna die soon, no matter what.
00:29:18.000If it's next year or the year after or the year after that, it doesn't have much time left.
00:29:23.000And if you can move in while, you know, dip your toe into the wild and extract that thing out, to me, that was like, oh, this is the best way to eat meat ever.
00:29:35.000This is 20, 30 times better than just getting a steak from a store.
00:29:40.000I remember when we were sitting around the fire and you're like, what do you think?
00:31:51.000Like, I just want you to come with me one day and watch what I do fucking every day.
00:31:57.000I'm going through that with my kid right now.
00:31:59.000I'm going through that with my kid where my older kid's very interested in bow hunting, but it's just, I'm like, man, you have to appreciate the level of discipline, dude, that you got to shoot, right?
00:32:14.000And I actually pulled the plug on him this year where I said...
00:32:20.000If you shoot every day, like he'd been shooting throughout the summer, I said, if you shoot every day prior to this week, we're going to go bow hunt.
00:32:26.000I said, I want you to shoot every day prior to the week.
00:32:28.000And he didn't do it, and I said, we're not going.
00:32:30.000And I'll see if next year that impacts him, but it's like the discipline.
00:32:35.000It's unfortunate, but I think, you know, there's no way to teach someone that.
00:32:40.000There's no way to really like get it into their head how hard it is unless they're in the field and they're drawing on an animal and then they realize like unless there's some ways to mitigate that like you've had Joel Turner on which you have you've had him on right?
00:33:12.000There's a thing that happens when you're in a high-pressure situation that I recognize from martial arts and from a lot of other things, where you do not have full control of your faculties, and your body is operating on anxiety and adrenaline, And when it's completely unique,
00:33:29.000like a bow hunting thing, where you have Hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of preparation and thinking about it for seconds of action.
00:33:38.000And it boils down to this one movement where you're like, yikes!
00:33:42.000If you don't have a strategy for managing your mental state while that's happening, the odds of you flinching or moving or doing something stupid are really, really, really high.
00:33:55.000And Joel Turner went through that for like fucking 15 years.
00:34:02.000And then when he became a SWAT instructor, he's on a SWAT team, so he was telling me this one story where he had to shoot this guy that was holding a young girl hostage.
00:34:14.000And I think it was with a weapon, I forget, a knife or something.
00:34:18.000And so he has a headshot while this guy is holding onto a girl.
00:34:23.000And he had to figure out, like, what is the mental process that allows people to flinch and panic during these moments?
00:34:33.000And he realized there's a difference between open loop systems and closed loop systems.
00:34:38.000An open loop system is something like Swinging a baseball bat.
00:34:42.000Like, once you start swinging, you're just swinging.
00:37:11.000Because we have a tendency of making things work out in our head the way we want them to.
00:37:17.000And then when it doesn't work out like that because we haven't put in the time or we don't have a process down, and maybe you hit the animal bad, maybe you miss, maybe just shit the bed, and then you're just like...
00:37:49.000No one blows a shot with a bow and comes away saying, I don't know what happened, I did everything right.
00:37:54.000Because you fall into, like you're saying, you fall into this despair and guilt and you're trying to review in your head.
00:38:02.000I've accidentally landed on a thing that's not fail-safe, but somehow when you're saying keep the pin on them, I've landed on this thing like, remember your elbow, remember your elbow.
00:38:11.000And if I remember to like, Because when I'm shooting, just practicing, there's always this thing of sort of consciously being aware of having my elbow raised.
00:38:21.000And that makes everything fall on the line.
00:38:23.000And so if I know I'm going to get a shot, and I can think, like, if you'll do the part...
00:39:17.000I'd be curious if some dude started, like if some dude at 60 years old, you know, some dude at 60 years old started bow hunting, are they going to wig out like a 20 year old?
00:39:45.000That when you force yourself to do things you don't want to do, when you force yourself to get up in the morning and run in the cold and get in the cold plunge and all these different...
00:39:56.000This part of your brain that is able to do things that are uncomfortable Got it.
00:40:00.000That you don't want to do actually grows larger.
00:40:02.000And it seems to be that that's a muscle just like every other muscle.
00:40:06.000Not a muscle, but a thing that is more robust with use.
00:40:11.000And if you're a 60-year-old guy that's just been working in an office and listening to the boss and driving home and, you know, there's no stress.
00:40:21.000Not stress, but no high-pressure, decision-making, in-the-moment choices that you have come accustomed to managing and dealing with and negotiating.
00:40:33.000If you're a person who's fucking gone to war, maybe you've had some crazy high-pressure job and you're 60, you probably got fucking ice water running through your veins by the time you're 60 years old.
00:40:55.000I mean, you're talking about a guy that has fucking played professional football at the highest level, and even he says it's the most exciting shit that he's ever done.
00:41:03.000I've told Cam so many times, dude, I've done a lot of shit.
00:41:07.000I've fought, I do stand-up comedy, I do so many live things that are high-pressure.
00:41:14.000There's nothing like that moment when you're drawing and that thing is like in the field and it drops his head down at 50 yards and starts eating and you draw back and you got the...
00:41:30.000It's such a novel and unique moment that unless you have a bunch of those moments, like, I'm at the point now, you know, 10 years into bow hunting, where when I draw on an animal, I can keep my shit together.
00:41:46.000And now, to me, it's just like making sure I'm steady and the shot's good.
00:42:06.000You can shoot things that people have to kill.
00:42:08.000You know, if you can go to Lanai, where you can get, like, multiple shot opportunities on axis deer.
00:42:13.000That kind of situation, that's, for me...
00:42:16.000The difference between how I feel in September during elk season and some years where I feel great and super confident, it's always that I went on a couple other hunts.
00:45:18.000But isn't that also the case with bow hunters where you've been hunting your whole life hoping to see a 200-inch buck, and then one day you're in the mountains and this mule deer steps out.
00:45:32.000You're imagining, taking the photo, smiling on Instagram, you're imagining, you see this wide mule deer buck, like, this is crazy, this is a real one, I can make this happen, you're like, everything is just full panic!
00:45:46.000Clay Newcomb just did a bear grease episode about a guy, a poacher, and he interviews the guy at length, and this guy played softball on an army base, they had like an athletic complex, And a couple times he sees this giant buck,
00:46:02.000and people were aware of this giant buck.
00:46:04.000And he was trying to figure out if it was possible to kill it, as he calls it, kill it right or kill it legal.
00:46:09.000And one day he just happens to have his bow in his car and sees it, not anywhere he's supposed to hunt.
00:46:16.000And the way he describes it, he describes it like he was out of his body.
00:50:04.000You probably weren't totally ready for that at that moment.
00:50:06.000But if you have a certain level of proficiency and a certain amount of experience in mitigating high-pressure situations, then I think you could get through it.
00:50:16.000I've been teaching a lot of people to shoot a bow for the first time on the Lift Run Shoot show that I do.
00:50:22.000Joel Turner isn't going to tell them anything.
00:50:25.000There's so many basics you have to get before that.
00:50:28.000But as you said, once you get that routine down and you're kind of more seasoned, then I think that closed loop, open loop, then that would make more sense.
00:50:37.000It was so attractive to me when I first started shooting a bow.
00:50:45.000There's so much going on just in your yard when you're shooting at a target.
00:50:51.000There's so much mental and physical, and there's so many things that have to align.
00:50:57.000I have a checklist that I have on my phone That before I go hunting, like when I'm on the plane flying to wherever I'm going, I look at my notes on my phone and I go over my checklist and I bounce it around in my head.
00:51:21.000Like if I was going to go on like one of those- And you take way more than you need.
00:51:24.000If I was going to go on one of those backpacking mountain hunts where you're carrying your whole camp on your back and you're walking in for fucking 20 miles, I'd be the guy that has the 80-pound pack because I threw in extra batteries and extra broadheads in case this happens.
00:51:38.000Hiding stuff in the bushes on your way up.
00:52:14.000He was being obsessive out there with his rest, just like wrenching on it for hours and changing and doing all this and end up stripping something out because he's like got too crazy on the rest.
00:53:03.000You're going to be shooting at 10 or 20 yards.
00:53:05.000Or a whitetail hunter, they're shooting at 20 yards.
00:53:09.000So if you're going to be shooting long distance, a fletch going through with all that contact through the whisker, basically, that's going to impact long distance.
00:53:17.000Well, apparently it really impacts it when you have helical.
00:53:24.000So helical, for people that are listening, there's an angle that the fletchings are placed in that accentuates the spinning of the arrow, which makes it more accurate and, you know, that's what you want, right?
00:55:42.000Where I live on Lake Austin, there's a buddy of mine who's one of my neighbors who's a fisherman, and he said, man, you should have been here before they brought carp.
00:55:51.000He goes, there's all sorts of vegetation in here, and the bass were everywhere.
00:55:55.000But now, he goes, if you can get a camera and look at the bottom of this lake, it looks like the bottom of a swimming pool.
00:56:04.000There's so many non-native, there's so many invasive species that were unintentional, but the fact that for the most part, The common carp was they were doing everybody a favor.
00:56:14.000I think they thought they were doing a favor for rich people on Lake Austin.
00:56:18.000Because I think they wanted people to have less vegetation so they could take their boats out.
00:57:52.000We'd pour concrete, then we'd go and go try to get carp for bear bait.
00:57:55.000So before they outlawed it in 94 in Oregon, we'd get carp, catch these giant carp, have a wheelbarrow, get them all back.
00:58:04.000Put them in a, like a 55 gallon drum, put the lid on it, and then we'd make stink.
00:58:09.000So we'd call, we needed some stink to get the bear bait going.
00:58:12.000Because if you got that rotten carp in a gunny sack, and you put it way up a tree where they couldn't get it, that stink smell would go for five miles down the draw and then all the bear would come in, right?
00:58:24.000I just remember this one time we had a bunch of carp and 55-gallon drum.
00:58:28.000After a while, that kind of builds pressure.
00:58:30.000We weren't really thinking about this.
00:58:33.000So we go to take that lid off and it freaking explodes.
00:58:38.000And this shit smells so, I mean, maggots.
00:58:43.000Carps, rotten carp, exploded all over us.
00:58:46.000Have you ever seen those videos of when whales explode on beaches?
00:58:50.000Yeah, well, I've seen them when they blow them up.
00:58:52.000This is when Alan just caught this in front of my house the other day.
01:00:00.000I was living in Seattle for a while and we would fish smallmouth and perch and stuff in Lake Washington, which is like right downtown.
01:00:09.000And I was in this neighborhood where they have these apartment buildings that are on pilings.
01:00:14.000So there's just full-on apartment buildings out over the water built on piers.
01:00:20.000And they would cast shadows, and fish would collect there, and you'd be in a boat, man.
01:00:27.000Besides being out in some dude's front yard under their dock, you're fishing where you're right here almost looking into the window of someone eating breakfast, but you're cast right there, which felt much more intimate and kind of creepy.
01:02:25.000You know why I think that That helps when you do the elbow because when you get that elbow right, you're pulling hard against that back wall.
01:02:47.000So I think when you think of that elbow consciously, it makes you think of pulling hard against that wall, which that's where the bow performs best.
01:02:53.000Kyle Douglas pulls so hard that he's made bows break.
01:03:48.000You set it to 72 pounds or whatever it is when you're at a full draw, whatever the drop-off is.
01:03:56.000So they have this resistance setting where you can tweak it in your yard at like five yards or you're right in front of the target and you get it to the point where it's at the back wall and then you just pull a little more and it snaps and breaks.
01:04:09.000And it makes for a perfect release and I used that forever.
01:04:11.000But then when I really started pulling hard in the back wall, I was making it go off When I didn't want it to go off and then when I switched releases then I'm like oh that's definitely the most because you're much more steady when you're like when I'm fucking locked out I'm locked out like I'm engaged in my back when I'm shooting at something I am everything is locked out you know and I find that to be way more stable.
01:04:42.000But then I was listening to this one guy and he said, if you were going to lean against something and want to be totally stable, wouldn't you lock your arm out if you're leaning against a wall and you want it to be completely rigid?
01:04:52.000I was like, oh, that makes total sense.
01:05:34.000Most, like, I just, I know this, well, I shoot with it bent.
01:05:38.000We teach everybody to have it a little bit bent, but Wayne always references this poster of these premier Hoyt shooters, and they all have the exact same form, and they're all slightly bent.
01:07:20.000It's funny, hearkening back to the old days, I just had Waddell on the show, so me, Wayne, and Waddell were shooting at the Bow Rack, and we all have still trigger releases.
01:07:31.000You know, nowadays the cool thing is the handheld, right?
01:09:47.000There's certain things, I remember taking one of those home and messing with it, and I had the same...
01:09:52.000I had the same feeling I had when my nephew was trying to explain chess, like the game of chess to me, where I was like, that's pretty cool.
01:10:03.000Realistically, I'm not going to, right?
01:12:02.000The mindfuck of target panic is crazy.
01:12:05.000When you hear about people that can't get the pin on the target, they can hold like six inches under the target, but once they rise up to the target like, everything starts getting shaky.
01:12:16.000My body wants to put that pin just to the left.
01:12:22.000I don't know why, because I think I don't want to obstruct it.
01:12:25.000Yeah, you want to see what you want to hit.
01:12:28.000When I bring it up, like if I bring a crosshair on something, the crosshair is going to go, if I bring the pin up, it's going to want to sit just left so I can still look.
01:12:38.000And then I got to go like, now I'm going to bring it over where it belongs.
01:12:40.000You know what's the greatest thing of all time?
01:12:42.000It has some problems, but it's the greatest thing of all time, and I know they're going to eventually work this out, is that Garmin release.
01:12:47.000Do you saw that one that I was using last year?
01:14:57.000And the other thing about the Garmin that's really fantastic is If you can't range, like say if you're at 20 or you're at 40 yards and you range him and then he walks out and you're pretty sure it's like 50 or 60, you can also press a button and you get a full range of pins.
01:15:15.000So you get 20, 30, you get 5 LED lights.
01:15:22.000So if you're in a situation like we were at when we were rattling and the bucks just come running in and you know that's 20 yards or 30 yards, like you just pull it up and you got your pins.
01:16:22.000And in the end, you kind of be like, well, why is it even on your mind?
01:16:26.000In the end, if you look where it's gone, in the end, they made the right call.
01:16:30.000In open country, they made the right call.
01:16:33.000Other things I think that you might look and try to picture where it's headed and then maybe come back and correct.
01:16:41.000There was a time, I remember the first time Montana came out with anything about two-way communications.
01:16:46.000It was no two-way communications in the field the first year.
01:16:51.000People are like, if I'm hunting with my 13-year-old and my 80-year-old dad, I can't give them a radio so that if they have a problem, they can get a hold of me?
01:17:00.000And like, oh, yeah, I guess we didn't really mean that.
01:17:03.000And in the next year, there's a modification.
01:17:05.000In the next year, there's a modification as they try to gauge what's going on.
01:17:08.000But I think that as technologies come in, there's a tendency to...
01:17:32.000Or that every waterhole would have 50 different dudes that have trail cams over that water.
01:17:49.000But you'll see a thing that doesn't entirely make too much sense.
01:17:53.000I think that's part of the gamble and struggle of getting it right.
01:17:56.000Another thing that I think is winning out is they used to say, well, you can't have dogs hunting deer, of course.
01:18:03.000And then people have been like, but I want a recovery dog.
01:18:07.000The dog doesn't do any good until I've already wounded the thing.
01:18:10.000And once I've wounded it, why would you do anything to impede me getting it back?
01:18:15.000And they kind of are settling in on a, yeah, you can't run deer with a dog in most states, but they're coming around to saying, but for recovery, you can track a wounded deer with a dog.
01:18:28.000And so you have – there's a sort of compromise gets struck.
01:18:32.000Right, or even a dead deer where you can't find it, like heavy timber.
01:19:12.000It's like, look, lighted knocks allow you to more clearly see your impact and find the arrow so you're not littering.
01:19:19.000So instead of like an arrow just alone in the woods, you see that green light in the distance and you can find it.
01:19:26.000That one doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
01:19:28.000I wonder if someone, if in defining the legislation, there's a little bit of a, well, what else is going to be on an arrow that's electronic?
01:19:48.000Yeah, I mean, that's been out for years.
01:19:50.000So you could find the arrow with an app?
01:19:52.000And so what they would say that if somebody's just going to shoot an animal in the ass, just get an arrow stuck in it, then they'll find it.
01:20:02.000So is it going to perpetuate shitty, unethical shots?
01:20:06.000Like if I can just get a piece of it, I'm good.
01:20:48.000They changed, but it might be to what Steve was alluding to.
01:20:51.000It's like you try to course correct, or they didn't want to get too far down the road before they tried to come back, because that user group was established, and we'd been doing it, and now they fight back on that.
01:21:04.000Yeah, I just think all it does is allow you to make more ethical shots.
01:21:08.000That's all I think that a range-finding site does.
01:21:11.000I mean, they could say that, well, rifle hunting is more ethical than bow hunting, so why do we need to bow hunt?
01:21:46.000And a state will run a bow season, and then the general firearm, and everybody gets down to the real serious business of killing.
01:21:54.000And you can look at the archery harvest, and the archery harvest winds up in comparison being...
01:21:59.000I don't want to say negligible, but in comparison, it's a blip in the harvest.
01:22:05.000And so the desire to limit bringing in crossbows, certain technologies, be like, let's keep it simple, traditional, low-efficacy, low-harvest, and then allow for greater length of seasons and greater opportunity.
01:22:24.000And if you get to, and I know it seems impossible, but if you...
01:22:29.000Can you use technology to get it up where your harvest rates really start to spike, you're going to have the same thing you run into in other areas where you start being like, hey, we've got to limit the opportunity pool.
01:23:02.000You know, you're going to pay for it somehow.
01:23:04.000That's what, you know, a lot of detractors of archery will say.
01:23:08.000And I don't want to say, I mentioned earlier that maybe you just eliminate bow hunting if you want to be, you know, more efficient with killing, just make a rifle.
01:23:16.000I believe archery is just as deadly and just as ethical as rifle hunting.
01:23:27.000But the success rate is lower, to Steve's point.
01:23:32.000And what the guys back home have said, the detractors of bowhunting, is that, and this could just be old boy talk, the bowhunters are killing all the big bulls.
01:23:48.000And you kind of get lulled into this trap, especially with social media, that you're thinking, God, is everybody killing a fucking giant bull?
01:25:24.000Got up, set up, got there, first shot out of this gun, had the wind gauge up there, and I'm like, okay, the wind's going here, I'm going to hold on the left side of the steel, boom, 990 yards, first shot, smacked it.
01:26:19.000Well, now everybody has shooting sticks and, you know, bipods and all sorts of different things that they used to set up to make them more stable or prone.
01:27:04.000See, I hesitate to say anything, because I don't want to give anyone ideas, but if you were going to try to, like, I can't even think if you were going to try to regulate...
01:28:16.000Not the power, that's not the right word for it.
01:28:18.000They do have the ability to come in and really nitpick your gear.
01:28:22.000Right down to weird stuff that you could have people not even know what the hell you're talking about when you say true to bore projectile.
01:28:30.000But that hasn't come into General Firearm.
01:28:36.000And in fact, I can't really think of anything out there besides you can't use anything that projects light.
01:29:45.000Not just magnification, but also like you're changing the zero of it.
01:29:49.000So, but you're doing it based on the distance, based on the load, based on everything else that goes into the phone.
01:29:56.000The wind was not the greatest because you could check the wind at the gun, but when you're a thousand yards, so that's why you needed that flag out there.
01:30:23.000But again, it's, you know, social media, it makes it seem like, for anybody, that people are, everyone's successful, everyone's killing bulls, and it's just not the case.
01:30:34.000It's just not, success rate is still 10% on bulls with a, well, not even just bulls, elk with a bow.
01:30:43.000Well, social media has just fucked up our perceptions of everything.
01:30:46.000Of people's bodies, of people's faces, filters, wealth.
01:30:50.000But in September, God, it does seem like everybody's getting a big mega bull, don't it?
01:30:54.000Well, there's so many people with Instagram accounts, and everybody can't wait to post those photos.
01:30:59.000You know, when I asked what year that was, I've seen some graphs on hunting.
01:31:08.000And I see some graphs on hunting, and I, you know, We all get blamed for a lot of ills that probably we don't deserve in regard to hunting.
01:31:17.000But I saw this graph talking about the hunters, you know, 50 years ago, there's this many hunters.
01:31:23.000And right around 2015, I mean, it was plummeting.
01:31:29.000On the graph I saw, the number of hunters was just going straight down.
01:31:34.000And then I was trying to like, is that when you started coming in?
01:31:38.000And we talk about hunting here, and then now it's, you know, maybe there's a little bit of an...
01:31:43.000I know there's an uptick from where it was going, but I was thinking...
01:32:35.000I once saw a graph, it was a diagram or something, and it showed in Michigan.
01:32:45.000Average age of fur trappers, people that held a fur harvester license, the average age every year of someone holding a fur harvester license actually went up one year.
01:34:11.000They say mountain lion, bobcat, and then lynx.
01:34:13.000They throw in lynx, but you can't It's not even legal, but they love putting this trophy hunting moniker out there because it's really easy to hate trophy hunting, which isn't even legal.
01:34:26.000I read this article from Colorado Sun or something like that, where they want to eliminate people who kill mountain lions and just go cut their head off.
01:35:26.000I don't even know which one I'm against.
01:35:28.000It was like forcing, it was should the state, does the state need to implement a reintroduction or discovery effort or something like that?
01:35:41.000And this is, they're trying to, the debate comes around to, can you say trophy hunting?
01:36:40.000But long term, I mean, we've only been since the 1990s.
01:36:44.000There's a reason why they eradicated wolves.
01:36:48.000I don't agree with it, but when you have ranchers and you have all these people that they're living based entirely on the stock that they have...
01:36:57.000And whether or not they make money enough to keep their farm running or not is depending upon how many animals they bring to market.
01:38:16.000Yeah, I think there's certainly an element of that, but I think it really all boils down to people that love animals.
01:38:21.000I definitely detect that there's a complete disinterest in what hunters think about it, and they think that That for someone to come in and argue, by doing this wildlife measure, you're impacting,
01:38:37.000like, you would like this animal on the landscape for viewing pleasure.
01:38:43.000I like certain animals on the landscape for hunting, consumption, eating, whatever, and there's a conflict here where by doing this, you're going to lower—by increasing your likelihood of having viewer pleasure,
01:39:00.000you're having a potentially— Really negative impact on my use of natural resources.
01:39:08.000I think that they would look at you as though you're ridiculous or evil or don't have a point in saying that you want to limit predation on a resource you rely on.
01:39:21.000And they don't accept that as a reality.
01:39:28.000I haven't encountered a lot of really, really forceful wolf advocates that are serious hunters.
01:39:40.000The thing that bothered me most about the Colorado reintroduction is that while the ballot measure was going forward, wolves showed up on their own.
01:39:52.000I would have imagined, even if I was on, and I'm not anti-wolf, but When they showed up on their own, I don't even know if it's legally possible, I would have halted that whole thing.
01:40:04.000Because the social friction is so much less if they walk in on their own.
01:40:11.000Diane Boyd, who is the Montana wolf specialist for many years, she even came to believe in hindsight that the Idaho-Montana reintroductions were Ultimately were unnecessary.
01:40:27.000And that you would have gradually achieved the same thing with wolves walking in on their own and had a very different societal perception of what was going on.
01:40:36.000People would look at it as a natural dispersal, a natural occurrence, and not a government action.
01:44:05.000And as uncomfortable as that sounds for people, wildlife biologists, they have an understanding of the carrying capacity and the resources of the land.
01:44:14.000They understand how many hunters there are.
01:44:24.000For a long time, these people have painstakingly researched these numbers.
01:44:30.000They know exactly what they're doing, but when it comes to this game of reintroduction of animals, the first step is they say there's a carrying capacity for the amount of wolves.
01:44:42.000When it gets to that, we will agree to open up a season on wolf hunting.
01:44:46.000But every time that happens, there's lawsuits.
01:44:50.000There's lawsuits to try to stop that hunt, and then the wolves get larger and larger.
01:44:55.000And then you have larger and larger populations.
01:44:57.000I was looking at a graph the other day where they showed reintroduction of wolves to the Yellowstone, the amount of elk that existed, and now the amount of wolves versus the amount of elk.
01:46:27.000Every night, not every night, many nights I'll check and y'all get notifications, like the other night I got a notification, whatever the hell, 313, whatever it was, unit had hit its quota, region 5 had hit its quota, I'm talking about in Montana, whatever region hit its quota.
01:46:43.000At this point, we've hit at, it is a...
01:46:49.000There's a stable population of wolves across a big chunk of range that are managed as a renewable natural resources, that are managed as a big game species.
01:47:01.000It still gets litigated all the time, but the whole idea that they're going to be pushed back onto the ESA, onto the endangered species list, the state doesn't want that.
01:47:09.000That'd be the worst thing that could happen to the state.
01:47:11.000They're not going to shoot them into oblivion.
01:47:13.000It's like, we have wolves on the landscape.
01:47:16.000And you could have the extremes of people that want to live in a world where there aren't any.
01:47:23.000You have extremes where people want to live in a world where there's as many as possible and there's no regulation on them, which isn't extreme because we could live in that landscape.
01:47:32.000But right now we're living in a landscape where there are wolves on the ground, there's a healthy population, there's hunting for them, there's an equilibrium emerging.
01:50:27.000And I've heard they want to turn Colorado into a...
01:50:31.000Almost like a viewing state like you know how they do the safaris over in Africa where there's no hunting you're just out taking pictures that's what they want Colorado to be so they want low numbers of elk and deer so there is no hunting so then they can say well we don't really need hunters and by the way do you guys need guns now i i don't know if you need guns because you said you needed them for hunting so that's a big portion some people say yeah we want our everyday carry for protection a lot of people say we want to hunt With no hunting,
01:52:04.000But at the same time, they'll say, oh, but they would be a great tool for controlling wildlife diseases which populate among overpopulated ungulates.
01:52:14.000So you wind up getting this crosstalk.
01:52:18.000On one hand, it's not that catastrophic for big game herds, but it really lowers big game herds.
01:53:16.000I didn't retain the hide, but I kept the meat.
01:53:19.000On a wolf, I didn't keep the meat, but I retained the hide.
01:53:21.000I took the thing of highest value to me.
01:53:23.000Wasn't there some trappers you were telling me that wolf meat was their favorite meat?
01:53:27.000Oh, there's an Arctic explorer, Viljalmer Stephenson, and he had a book, My Life with the Eskimo.
01:53:38.000And he made first contact with a lot of Eskimo Inuit hunters in the Canadian high Arctic, and he always claimed that was his favorite game meat.
01:55:50.000Well, if you do it right, like one of the things that we learned when we were hunting with Jesse last year, like diver ducks, which people normally say they taste like shit because they eat the stuff on the bottom of the lakes.
01:57:04.000Done in a very surgical fashion, at the right time, the right place, with the right level of intensity, they have found that it is effective.
01:57:16.000Well, you gotta bring in a fucking special ops unit.
01:57:18.000No, like, you can, there's, man, if you have imperiled populations of pronghorn or imperiled populations of mule deer, and you go in, like, during calving season, like, In the right areas at the right time,
01:57:34.000you can move the needle on recruitment.
01:57:39.000Does you now and then, if you have a ranch, and you now and then see a coyote and get it, are you doing effective predator control?
01:57:52.000Done in a timely fashion, like I said, surgically, a timely fashion with the right approach at the right time, you can absolutely move the needle on wildlife recruitment.
01:58:01.000You see it in Alaska, you see it in Arizona, you see it all over the place.
01:58:04.000But the issue is, statewide or locally, that might be the case, but they will then spread out.
01:58:12.000Now they're in every state, they're in every city in the country because of that, because people have hunted them.
01:58:17.000So I put this to someone the other day.
01:58:33.000I knew the minute the journalist called me and he's talking about banning wildlife killing contests.
01:58:39.000And I said, can we please say hunting contests at least?
01:58:44.000Do we have to say wildlife killing contests?
01:58:46.000And I'm like, you know, my buddy Doug has a doe derby.
01:58:51.000Where they're in an area where they're trying to lower deer numbers for issues of disease transmission, habitat improvement, and he has a little derby where you win some prizes because the state is explicitly trying to encourage Dough harvest?
01:59:09.000Is he having a wildlife killing contest?
01:59:12.000Or is he having a derby as a management tool?
02:00:09.000But I did want to say one thing about the mountain lion hunting.
02:00:12.000As I say that I will kill a coyote just because I think it's to kill, I didn't kill a lion in Colorado because one of the biggest benefits to using dogs is identifying If that's the animal you want to kill.
02:00:25.000What happens now, like in Oregon where they outlawed running lions with dogs, is if you kill one, it's just one you saw and you don't know what it is.
02:00:53.000Where dogs are allowed or baiting for bears allowed or even hunting black bear with dogs is allowed, you're killing the animal that should be killed, the older male generally, and you're identifying it, you're taking out the right one.
02:01:07.000Without those measures in place, as hunting a dog is a tool, without those measures in place, it's not nearly as controlled.
02:01:15.000And it's not like people are just going out there just going to kill any lion up the tree, just like I didn't kill one because I didn't see an old male lion.
02:01:23.000Houndsmen are the one that originally pushed for lion regulations.
02:01:26.000They were pushing for lion regulations when no one was paying any attention to lion conservation.
02:01:37.000We were having this conversation where people say that coyote hunting actually increases coyote numbers.
02:01:46.000And I see what I'm talking about because it disrupts pack dynamics and can lead to animals shooting off in new directions and starting packs.
02:01:52.000It also leads to them having more offspring.
02:01:54.000But I said, well, if you're super pro-coyote, why would you not encourage that?
02:06:54.000Yeah, that's one argument that I... People like to lump, kind of an aside, but lump hunters into trophy hunters or meat hunters, which I think we would all agree, you can be both.
02:07:05.000I take every ounce of the meat from the animals I kill.
02:07:09.000Every ounce is more valuable than gold to me.
02:07:12.000And I take all the antlers, the hide, I got claws.
02:07:18.000That's all part of that memory of that hunt.
02:10:06.000They kind of can skirt around some regulations.
02:10:10.000And that was part of the things that people didn't like.
02:10:12.000When you hear in the gun control debate, people about trying to close the gun hole loopholes or trying to put it that they should be subject to FFL transfers.
02:10:22.000But like when my dad died and I got my dad's guns, we didn't do an FFL transfer.
02:10:41.000Yeah, there's a lot of regulations that make sense, and there's a lot of them that don't, and most of the ones that come out of California don't.
02:10:47.000I mean, the limiting magazines, that's a fucking insane one, like down to 10 rounds or certain guns you can't even buy.
02:10:53.000They're trying to do in Oregon five rounds.
02:11:31.000And then, as they're trying to lower snow geese numbers to protect Arctic habitats, they've gone in and undone.
02:11:40.000They've made an exception to allow unlimited capacity magazines to hunt snow geese.
02:11:46.000So it's one of those weird areas where you see a real reversal of a time-honored tradition, which is three rounds in your gun, to make it that people can kill more snow geese.
02:11:57.000That's an animal that I want to hunt with you one day.
02:12:15.000A friend of mine, he's right, where he said, watching one of those come down out of the sky is like watching a folding lawn chair hit the ground.
02:13:37.000They have the lobbyists working for them.
02:13:41.000Meanwhile, hunters, fuck, we can't get out of our own way on half the shit.
02:13:46.000Yeah, but I have a long history of being a public person, and I understand it from a different dynamic.
02:13:50.000Because there's just a thing that happens with men.
02:13:54.000Where they become jealous of other men and hateful of other people's success and then they look at other people for whatever reason as anytime they do something it takes away from them or they look at someone getting attention and somehow another it takes away from them and they focus entirely on that person's success.
02:14:12.000Or who that person is, and they try to find flaws with them.
02:14:15.000It's a natural thing with jealous, weak-minded men.
02:14:49.000That is anti-comedy about controversial subjects that people are excited to go to see them that are real comedy fans that are really good comics.
02:14:57.000There's not a single anti-controversial joke comic that other comics seek out to go see.
02:15:04.000What's interesting is half your guests are your competitors.
02:15:42.000It doesn't do you any good, but it can do the opposite.
02:15:44.000It can do the opposite if you have a good mindset.
02:15:46.000If you have a good mindset and you see someone and you're envious, that can be fuel for your success.
02:15:51.000As long as you manage it in your mind like almost everything else that's complicated, you have to manage it in your mind as like, This can fuel me and be a fantastic resource.
02:16:03.000When I see someone's success, I get inspired to work harder.
02:16:07.000So I am happy that that person is successful.
02:16:09.000So if you saw a comet coming up and they were kind of in your wheelhouse and nipping on your heels, you'd be like, I'm going to have that son of a bitch on the show.
02:16:52.000That's all I worry about—or not all I worry about, but with hunters, we just— We have a hard time giving other people credit, being supportive of each other, some of us, and so with this disjointedness, that's what I get worried about.
02:17:09.000This gets out there in the zeitgeist, people hear it, they recognize their own failings, their own shortcomings, and their own thought processes, and then they realize this is not admirable.
02:17:49.000I was introduced to Howell by my colleague Giannis, who's a supporter, and we've done some things to support them, but man, that name, I probably met him, but just right now I'm spacing it if I am, so apologies to him.
02:18:56.000And when you're a man and you can't recognize another man's success or you see a man and you measure yourself up to him and you fall short and so you start shitting on that person, everybody knows what you're doing.
02:19:06.000Every man knows what you're doing, especially every exceptional man.
02:19:54.000But if you're a king around other kings, you realize, wow, these guys are all fucking getting up earlier than me, working harder than me, thinking smarter than me.
02:20:02.000Being more effective, recognizing their shortcomings, fixing them, talking about it with other people that do the same, and growing from each other.
02:20:12.000You know, we have, like, in The Mothership, the comedy club that I own, when we get together in the green room during the shows, we're always breaking down bits.
02:20:50.000Yeah, now we all learn from each other.
02:20:52.000But if you see this one guy that's out there that's putting in all this extra work and succeeding, and you just start shitting on him, everybody knows what you're doing.
02:21:03.000You know what you're doing, motherfucker.
02:21:06.000You know, in your heart of hearts, you know you're being a bitch.
02:21:10.000And you can live with that if you like, but I can't.
02:21:52.000If someone is doing exceptional work and doing an exceptional job of being very unusually successful, and then you start picking on all the little flaws in that person, and people are gonna look at you.
02:22:05.000They're gonna go, But you're kind of fat and lazy and you fuck up all the time and you're always drunk and you've got this problem and that problem.
02:22:12.000How come you're not looking at your own self with the same scrutiny that you look at this extremely successful person?
02:22:45.000You know, to your point last night, I saw two of the funniest people I've ever seen, Shane and Tony, both putting notes in their phone from comments that were made in the green room.
02:23:17.000And I was trying to explain that to one of the managers.
02:23:20.000I was like, the reason why we have to, like, when comics get together, like, we're at the comics bar and we're all just talking shit.
02:23:26.000Like, if someone is sensitive and they get in that and they start complaining about jokes that are being told, hey, you've got to leave now.
02:23:33.000Because this is literally how we spar.
02:23:37.000If you're complaining that someone is making fun of this person or picking on that person, creating an unsafe work environment, okay, well, you can't be here.
02:23:45.000It's like if you go to the gym and you're trying to be a boxer and you're like, everybody's trying to hit me.
02:25:10.000The thing about comedy is if you're not funny, we find out real quick.
02:25:14.000Nobody laughs at you just because your tits are out.
02:25:16.000The thing about hunting, though, there's gals that become very popular online that are just hot wearing camo.
02:25:24.000But how I looked at it is, if I can't be more whatever, stand out more than this girl just because she's hot, I must not be that fucking good.
02:25:34.000I think of it in terms of effectiveness.
02:25:37.000Like, if a girl's really hot and she's got big tits and camera, but she's also a beast and she's out there really killing a lot of things.
02:25:52.000Like, if there's a girl that's hot and she gets on stage and she's bombing all the time, no one's like, yeah, she's only up there because she's hot.
02:29:01.000But it does create a situation for a woman comic that if a woman comic can navigate that, they become undeniable.
02:29:11.000If you can navigate all those preconceived ideas that people have about you before you go on stage, but yet you still succeed at making them laugh, that's black belt shit.
02:30:05.000If in Colorado they lose this ballot initiative about hunting bobcats and hunting mountain lions around this definition of trophy hunting, and America's hunters get together in the green room and workshop what went wrong,
02:30:22.000I think they're going to determine that what went wrong is not...
02:30:30.000Identifying with and fighting for people who are engaged in a specific segment of the activity that you're not engaged with.
02:30:40.000And needing to come into the awareness that as this plays out, this will get around to impacting you.
02:31:16.000And you'll be the one that you ignored when other...
02:31:19.000You'll be ignored when other traditional use practices were getting eliminated because it didn't affect you and then now here it is on your doorstep.
02:31:28.000There's also a thing about Hunters where they're competitive in a different way than, like, say, in comparison to stand-up comics.
02:31:34.000Because stand-up comics, you have that audience to yourself.
02:31:38.000It's not like they killed the audience.
02:32:42.000And if you're a public land hunter, and there's a specific unit, and there's, you know, that's allocated 150 tags for a specific unit, and everybody's in there hiking out, and one guy shoots this big-ass bull, that's a big-ass bull that you're not going to be able to kill.
02:32:57.000And so there's a different level of competition, because...
02:33:01.000Even though it's a renewable resource, it's a limited resource, and there's also exceptional aspects of that resource, like an enormous animal, a very unusual, rare outlier of an animal, that if someone kills it, now you can't.
02:33:15.000And then there's also the fucking dick measuring thing, where guys are taking grip and grins.
02:33:21.000You know, one of the things that's really disturbing to me is the numbers thing.
02:33:24.000You know, I was talking to a friend of mine who was a guide, And he was furious because this guy, who is this well-known hunter, shot a mule deer.
02:36:09.000I don't know many people that if they said, hey man, we're going to go on family vacation and we found this sweet spot, but then we got to thinking we should actually go to family vacation in a shitty spot.
02:39:01.000Now, it crosses a line, and I do understand when people are killing high-fence animals in small properties, and they're making it look like this is a wild animal.
02:39:30.000If you have a- 15, 20,000 acre high fenced property.
02:39:34.000I'm like, okay, what are the odds those animals, unless it's a mule deer, it's a migratory animal, what are the odds those animals would ever get out of that 15,000 acres in their normal natural life?
02:39:44.000As long as you're not feeding them, if you're not like, I'm standing over a feeder waiting for them to show up at 5 p.m., as long as it's not that, it's just hunting.
02:39:53.000And when people start talking about private land versus public, I understand the appeal.
02:39:59.000And I understand that public land should be available to everybody, and I agree.
02:40:02.000And I think it's an amazing thing that we have here in America, where we have these resources where any person can go to a place where you can get a general tag and go to public land and hunt.
02:41:12.000There's so many morons that are doing it.
02:41:15.000I think the best case scenario is human beings interacting with absolutely wild animals in a way where these animals aren't acting as Natural as they would be as if human beings didn't exist.
02:41:56.000Because I remember, here's how much I wanted to protect my...
02:42:01.000In that same logging country, I would go out and the road would end maybe...
02:42:05.000I don't want to drive out to the logging unit because that's going to spook all the deer, especially in the headlights before it's light and you're out there waiting.
02:42:12.000So I'd park like half a mile back and walk out there.
02:42:16.000But I didn't want anybody else driving out there, so I'd park in the middle of the road sideways, leave my truck there.
02:42:21.000It's like, I'm not saying you can't come out there, but you're not driving.
02:44:18.000I've never done it, and I've had, like...
02:44:23.000Occasion to debate people about it, but maybe I used to be a little friskier about arguing about all the finer points, but I haven't done it.
02:45:02.000It's a collision of husbandry and animal husbandry.
02:45:06.000Of hunting and animal husbandry where you're using the sort of harvest tactics of hunting, but you're employing a lot of the principles of animal husbandry.
02:47:08.000I mean, when it was like a ball of fur, dude, and she comes squirt.
02:47:12.000Well, I'm kind of simplifying it, where there was a forky I didn't know about, and she got up right next to this forky, and then the lion blew out, and kind of first tried to roll that forky, and then sort of sprang out of that and tried to get the doe.
02:47:30.000But it was like he was flock shooting.
02:48:47.000The first three or so deer I got, I got on when I was a kid.
02:48:52.000I killed the first deer when I was 13. The first three or so deer I got, I got all on private property.
02:48:57.000And then I killed, I went into the White River, kind of the, we used to call it the White River Swamp, but down on National Forest land and killed a fawn one October with my bow.
02:49:12.000And People didn't celebrate public land hunting then.
02:49:19.000You were there because you didn't know any farmers.
02:49:24.000If you went out on public land in Michigan and you went to anybody that was on public land and said, hey, do you want to hunt the farm over there?
02:49:32.000No one is like, out of principle, by God, I'm staying here.
02:51:28.000As someone who shot bulls with rifles and shot bull with a bow and arrow, you cannot compare.
02:51:33.000The way it makes me feel, when I make a perfect 52-yard shot and I watch that arrow go into the crease behind the shoulder and you watch that bull buck up and you know you got him, you're like, woo!
02:52:34.000When I finally released that arrow, and it hit that bull, and I heard that whack, and the bull literally ran 30, 40 yards and piled up, the woo that I let out, you could have heard it a fucking mile away.
02:52:49.000They heard it on the other side of the canyon.
02:52:51.000They were watching with binoculars, and they heard, whoa!
02:55:47.000But if it wasn't for that, having someone like you to show me how to do it and take me out and to have you be my guide, like, fuck, what are the odds?
02:55:56.000I'll see people making, like, young hunters or people just starting to hunt.
02:56:00.000Now I'll see them make horrible decisions, you know?
02:56:04.000We're like, oh, I think I'm going up there in the morning.
02:56:38.000Well, they're just going to take it on.
02:56:40.000And then some people are going to sit and be like, I don't have it in me to really figure this hard-ass thing out.
02:56:47.000Well, until you've experienced success, it's very difficult to justify the work and it seems insurmountable.
02:56:54.000And for a lot of people that don't have someone like you or someone like you taking them out, it's almost insurmountable because there's so many things you have to learn.
02:57:02.000It's something that you have to figure out through trial and error or you have to read a lot or watch a lot of videos and absorb all that information.
02:57:09.000Yeah, mostly it's you have to learn it yourself, you know, because you can read.
02:58:19.000But he has a program where he'll take you, he'll teach you how to shoot, he'll teach you how to hunt, he'll teach you how to butcher, teach you how to cook.
02:58:36.000An emeritus is like a somewhat contradictory new school of traditional cooking.
02:58:40.000But that's so valuable, where someone can take you through the whole process, and there's not a lot of that available, unfortunately.
02:58:49.000And even if it was available, it would be very difficult to screen applicants to make sure that it's even worth taking your time.
02:58:56.000Because if you've got a guy and he's 50, 60 pounds overweight and got a bad knee, and you want to take him on a mule deer hunt in the mountains, we can't really do this.
02:59:15.000I think the truth, like, there's an area, and I don't think everyone needs to get there, there's an area of expertise or a level of expertise that I think is admirable, and it's, you know, you learn how to hunt some particular spot, and that's your hunting spot,
02:59:33.000and you get it really figured out, and that's a wonderful journey, and that's really good.
02:59:37.000I think that getting to the point where you get that place and thing that you're comfortable at, And then you go and be like, okay, I'm going to take whatever it is I learned there and try to apply it to something totally different.
02:59:52.000And get where you're good at these spots and these things, but you become good at deciphering, figuring out, and being able to move into totally new things and carry that accumulative knowledge into these new spots.
03:00:11.000And I regard that as being, not better, but a high level of expertise.
03:00:18.000Well, there's also variables that maybe some people that are successful in other disciplines don't recognize as they enter into this new world that there's different parameters.
03:00:27.000Like, for instance, if you got someone who's a successful whitetail hunter that hunts out of a tree stand, a really good archer, But they're used to shooting a 65-pound bow with a 350-grain arrow, and they're used to shooting these animals that are fairly small.
03:00:42.000And then you take them on an elk hunt, and you're like, hey, that setup, this three-blade mechanical with a 60-pound bow, you're shooting a fucking enormous animal with huge bones.
03:00:55.000You might not even get through the ribs with that thing.
03:00:57.000You might center a rib, and that's a wrap.
03:01:00.000You have to recognize you're dealing with a totally different thing, and you can't just be weak.
03:01:08.000You have to be capable of making it to...
03:01:09.000You're not going to sit in a tree stand.
03:01:11.000You've got to change everything about the way you approach it.
03:01:14.000Yeah, you got very successful with this one aspect of this thing, but you've got a whole new thing now you have to apply it to, and if you don't, you're going to wound animals.
03:01:24.000You're going to have problems, or you're going to just not be successful at all.
03:01:28.000I remember the first time I went out with a guy deep dropping for swordfish, so I watched a guy catch a couple swordfish in 1,300 feet of water, and I realized I knew nothing about fishing.
03:01:51.000But nowadays with fishing, you know, Steve, I sent you that thing the other day where the guy had a screen on his phone and there was some sort of a camera attached to his line.
03:02:05.000So this guy cast out, and he's looking at a screen with a lid over it to shield the sun on his rod as he's reeling.
03:02:14.000He's seeing the fish coming towards his bait.
03:02:17.000Yeah, not like ice fishing with a camera, but he has a camera of He's casting and has a camera watching fish interact with his bait while he does a retrieve.
03:03:41.000You could be if you're a piece of shit.
03:03:43.000But what guys could conceivably do, like in Oregon, as I'm talking about in Western Oregon, glassing those big, huge logging units and finding deer is an art.
03:03:52.000I mean, it is hard to pick those things up.
03:03:54.000But if you could just put, you know, and find the thermal register of it.
03:06:20.000That if someone wanted to say, we'd like to open it up that people could hunt with a spear, I would probably generally say, okay, because I don't think that this is going to be a thing that reduces opportunity.
03:06:32.000Well, you remember the thing that happened in Canada with Josh Bomar?
03:06:35.000They banned spear hunting because of this one controversial moment where it was totally legal.
03:07:55.000And it gets into this weird area where some people have a really hard time with people exploiting hunting on social media because they say that you're kind of like...
03:08:07.000You're bastardizing this beautiful thing and you're making it just like showing things on Instagram.
03:08:14.000Just like all the other things that you show off on Instagram.
03:08:17.000Your private jet or your big house or your fucking yachts and shit.
03:08:21.000You're cheapening this beautiful moment.
03:08:25.000When I was a kid, you had to go down to the local sporting goods store and staple your picture up to the brag board, man.
03:12:04.000But we'd be, you know, back in the early days, we were making 16 shows.
03:12:10.000So you weren't gonna, you know, if you went and spent a week busting your ass and you didn't get something, it wasn't, the option wasn't there to ditch it.
03:12:19.000Like, we were gonna make something out of it.
03:15:44.000And I don't monetize any of my hunting videos because I just don't even want to deal with, oh, you're killing for fucking profit or whatever the hell.
03:15:52.000So I'm like, I don't make any money off these.
03:16:16.000But anyway, they wrote, they appealed it for me.
03:16:19.000They got in touch with YouTube and appealed their decision and got it overturned.
03:16:24.000So they, for people like me, or for like us, creators, they will go to bat for us and Yeah, oftentimes I've seen cases.
03:16:33.000I remember our senator in Montana got dinged on one of the social media platforms for having a picture of him and his wife with a pronghorn.
03:16:58.000So the way we'll generally look at it with putting up video content is we'll try to avoid demonetization because Being demonetization meaning you cross some line,
03:17:21.000If you compare it to other channels of distribution, I have not found YouTube to be dramatically over-restrictive, especially compared to any kind of...
03:17:35.000Especially compared to any kind of network parameter.
03:17:38.000They might be bad, but they're not bad compared to anybody else.
03:17:44.000And that one, that was Jason Quick who helped me with that.
03:18:05.000It took, so it took a couple times, but still is reasonable.
03:18:09.000And they took, they had age restrictions on other ones I didn't even know about, but I didn't notice that the viewership was down.
03:18:15.000And, um, And so they lifted all those.
03:18:20.000It's kind of a weird situation where, although there are many, many video platforms, YouTube essentially has an overwhelming majority of people into the point where it's almost a monopoly.
03:18:33.000And if you have things like that that are very valuable to people, like, I want to see where the arrow hits.
03:18:41.000I like when I see blood pouring out of an animal because I know that that's a lethal shot.
03:18:51.000It might be graphic to some people, but if I see a rage hit behind the shoulder on a deer and I see that blood squirting out as soon as the deer starts moving, I'm like, that guy got that deer.
03:19:18.000And if you're doing it only to protect the ignorant, that seems insane too.
03:19:22.000It's like you don't have to watch those videos.
03:19:25.000And if you're going to allow those videos on the platform, you should allow those videos to be a realistic depiction of what everybody's trying to do, which is a lethal shot on an animal.
03:19:35.000And if you hit a lethal shot on an animal and you hit it in the vitals and you use a strong arrow with a great broadhead, you're going to get blood squirting out of it because that's what you want.
03:19:46.000The last thing you want to see is an arrow hit an animal and no blood comes out.
03:20:36.000And so it created this sense of, when I say counterproductive, if you were looking in and watching it, We're good to go.
03:21:14.000One of the things that I really appreciated about your shows, particularly early on, is that you have a lot of segments where you cook the meat.
03:21:20.000And there's a lot of shows where they don't cook the meat.
03:22:58.000That was the best decision ever because it addresses that part of it, which was kind of like, it's impressive that you foresaw what might be a challenge for us, you know, explaining hunting.
03:23:11.000So that was just like brilliant to come up with that.
03:23:13.000But to our defense, that was never a thing.
03:23:17.000We just knew, I mean, I read this old article, my first deer, I killed that spike that I said when I was 15. I wrote this little thing for the school newspaper and said I got 37 pounds of hamburger from it.
03:23:28.000And I don't know why, because I don't know why I said that.
03:23:31.000That's a great school newspaper entry.
03:23:49.000It certainly opens people's eyes up that are non-hunters, and I think it's a very valuable addition to this whole video depiction of what hunting is all about.
03:24:00.000And also, you're a really good cook, so you'd get really...
03:24:04.000Involved and make some pretty cool recipes and, you know, you cook for your staff and you've got episodes like that where you cooked all these different preparations of different wild game.