On this week's episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, Joe talks about his recent appearance on The View with Sunny Hostin, his new book, and why he thinks Ben Shapiro should debate him in a debate. Plus, he talks about why he doesn't like The View, why he's not a fan of The View and how he feels about the way they portray him in their show. And, of course, he also talks about how much he's been getting wrong about Ben Shapiro and why they should debate each other in a real debate, not just on TV, but in real life. Joe also gives his thoughts on why Ben Shapiro is a douchebag and why you should vote for him to debate him. Also, he's got a new book coming out called "End of Race Politics: Arguments for a Colorblind America" and it's out now. Check it out on Amazon! Subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts! Subscribe on iTunes Learn more about your ad choices. Rate, review and subscribe to our new podcast, The O.C.O.P.E.R.Y. Podcast! Logo by Courtney DeKorte. Music by Ian Dorsch Download MP3 by Cracksmith Audio Book by Pond5 Music by Skynyrd and Stellium Records All Good Things by Mr. McElroy Thank you for listening to the pod, Kevin McLeod and Kevin McAfee Thanks for listening and supporting the podCastle of the pod! and Good Morning America! - Kevin Mclean Good Morning Podcast by Kevin McDonough Good Morning, Good Day, Good Life, Good Night, Good Dreams, Good Thoughts, Good Blessings, Good Rights, Good Morning and Good Dreams and Good Luck, and Much More. -Kevin Mclean - Check it Out! -- Thank You! --Kevin McLeod, Kevin McKinnon -- Kevin McAllister, Thank You, Kevin and Kevin McKee -- Kevin McAnally & Kevin McEllain -- Good Day Podcasts by Kevin McKeedy -- Please Rate Me Out! -- Thank Me Out? -- Check It Out, Thank Me, Love You, Love, Bless Me Out, Bless You, Lord Bless Me, Good Love, God Bless, Bless, Love & Good Bless, -- Love, Lordy, Bless & Bless, Jude
00:01:55.000And when a show gets really, really popular, like Letterman or something like that, obviously it has its own Fanbase right those people will try to get tickets before anybody else does and in that case They probably don't need to use a service anymore.
00:02:10.000They just get actual fans But arguably like the fans the real fans of the view that are like all these ladies are on point Most of those people can't leave the house like they're probably right immobile right right right because they're their moms taking their kids to school and and that's yeah,
00:02:27.000yeah It's a very strange show, but it's fun to watch.
00:05:50.000We're not going to pretend it's not there, but whenever it matters, I'm going to try to treat you like an individual based on your personal qualities, and we're going to ask the government to do the same.
00:06:06.000And understand that when you see these incentives that are put into corporations, these are methods of control.
00:06:14.000And that's what's going on when you see things like DEI initiative.
00:06:19.000You're not really making the world a better place.
00:06:22.000You're just allowing these financial institutions to enact control over corporations.
00:06:28.000And it's a really shifty, weird way they're doing it by making it seem like they're trying to make the world a better, more equal place.
00:06:36.000And then there's some people who are good intentioned but have a very narrow perspective and a very limited amount of information that they're operating under that will try to pretend that these things are overall good, are net positive.
00:06:53.000And Sonny Hostin may be one of those people, but, you know, so we had eight minutes to deal with this topic on one of the biggest platforms in the country, and especially an audience that isn't my typical audience.
00:07:04.000If anything, the View's audience is really who needs to hear my message the most.
00:07:09.000And Sonny decided to take up a few minutes of that precious eight minutes and attack me as someone who's been co-opted by the right and someone who's a charlatan.
00:07:30.000She said something like, a lot of people in the black community, implicitly herself included, think that you've been co-opted by the right and that you're a charlatan.
00:07:42.000And I explained to her I've only voted twice, both for Democrats, Hillary and Biden, very open to voting for Republicans.
00:07:50.000So I'm a political independent, and I'm only young enough to have voted twice.
00:07:56.000I'm an analyst at CNN, and I write for the Free Press, which is Barry Weiss's.
00:08:00.000And I'm independent in all those endeavors, and I patiently explained that and then basically asked her to go back to the topic that we're here to discuss.
00:08:09.000Yeah, well, it's a dumb way of addressing a thing and to immediately say that someone's been co-opted with no evidence whatsoever.
00:08:17.000There's nothing about anything that you say that seems right-wing to me.
00:08:21.000You're just objectively looking at these subjects and giving a very intelligent and measured opinion of them.
00:08:30.000Just because some people who happen to vote Republican may agree with you, that's a ridiculous statement that you're co-opted.
00:08:40.000I think you're probably one of the least co-opted people I've ever talked to.
00:08:44.000You're very open-minded and you're very objective.
00:09:13.000And I think people, part of the reason it went viral is because What people have told me is you very rarely see someone who gets a character attack on a big TV platform, calmly expose it as evidence-free, and then just move back to the topic.
00:09:28.000Yeah, well, that was beautiful that you did that.
00:09:30.000And that's how everybody should approach these things.
00:09:32.000And the problem is that's not what people want to do.
00:09:35.000What they want to do is engage in argument and try to win.
00:09:41.000Having an open mind and listening to what this person has to say and trying to figure out whether or not it resonates with you Instead they're just trying to win and trying to win in this weird sound bitey way, you know Those platforms whether it's the view or any of the number of these panel platforms are so inherently flawed Just in this just the way it's formatted You only have a small amount of time.
00:11:36.000And he said something that I think I've said before privately and I feel, which is that I think America would survive four more years of Trump or four more years of Biden.
00:11:45.000Truthfully, I think America and the Republic is strong enough to survive either.
00:11:51.000Neither one of them is a very good option, in my view.
00:11:53.000I think we're given two very bad options.
00:12:17.000Back in 2015, 2016, when I was hearing how Trump was speaking on Muslims on the registry, all this kind of stuff, I was one of the people that was worried he would be a fascist.
00:12:31.000But then what happened is we had four years of governance from him where he basically governed like a typical Republican and in some ways even had some policies that were to the left of what Republicans would do.
00:12:43.000For instance, on criminal justice reform, he was very progressive.
00:12:46.000He made funding for black colleges and universities permanent, which if Obama had done either of those things, he would have been criticized as playing left-wing identity politics.
00:12:57.000And so I slowly realized that there is a pretty big distance between what Trump says and what he does.
00:13:05.000I don't understand that fact about him, but I think it is a fact about him.
00:13:10.000And so that's why I don't feel alarmist the way I did when I voted for Hillary in 2016, really voted against Trump.
00:13:20.000Now, that being said, Trump is a wild guy and is difficult to predict.
00:13:24.000I don't think he's someone you want behind the wheel in a crisis time.
00:13:29.000And then, on the other hand, we have Biden, who has clear evidence of cognitive decline, vying for what's supposed to be the most important and challenging job in the world, certainly in the country, and people essentially claiming that it doesn't matter that he has obvious cognitive decline.
00:14:10.000One of the great things about the market is that it's honest, because if you lie, you lose money.
00:14:14.000So if you look at when lots of money is on the line, who do people want leading their organizations?
00:14:20.000Look at the NBA, look at the MLB. Who do people get as head coaches?
00:14:23.000Usually people in their 50s is the median age.
00:14:26.000Because you've been around long enough that you've made a lot of dumb mistakes that 20-year-olds and 30-year-olds make, and you've learned those things that you can only learn with age.
00:14:37.000But, you know, in your 50s, you've still got the vast majority of your cognitive power there and your energy, if you're healthy, that is.
00:14:51.000No, we want someone with life experience and hopefully someone that doesn't exist solely in politics.
00:14:57.000Like someone who hasn't become, their roots haven't been deeply entrenched in the system.
00:15:04.000Someone who can maybe have some sort of an outsider's perspective that can look at the problems with the current situation and the way things are structured.
00:15:13.000The way money is allocated and the way funding is done, the way bills are passed and Which is a giant issue, like when they sandwich these 2,000-page bills with a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with it.
00:15:27.000It shouldn't be legal to have a bill about what's a popular topic, the border issue, the border crisis, and embed in that funding for Ukraine.
00:15:38.000It doesn't make any sense to couple those issues.
00:15:41.000A few months ago, So basically, you've had the Biden administration ignoring the border issue for several years because they wanted to signal sort of how non-Trump they were, right?
00:15:54.000So Biden comes in, he says, we're going to undo everything Trump did with the border, even though a lot of those policies are actually widely supported and smart.
00:16:06.000The migrant crisis goes to hell in the past two or three years, even now infiltrating cities like Chicago, New York, everywhere.
00:16:15.000And then you have Biden finally get serious about the border a couple months ago with the border bill.
00:16:22.000And Trump gives the signal essentially that it's not a good bill, even though it really was a pretty decent bill and certainly in an emergency you want to stop the bleeding.
00:16:34.000Then Trump signals that the bill isn't good enough and Republicans kill it, essentially.
00:16:40.000So I think both sides have tried to spin this, right?
00:16:44.000The Democrat spin has been, look, the Republicans destroyed that bill.
00:16:49.000They don't even care about immigration.
00:16:52.000Of course, what's wrong with that is the reason it's this bad is because Democrats have been ignoring the issue fully for two, three years.
00:17:03.000Does anybody have anything to gain by letting migrants into the country?
00:17:07.000Tim Dillon says that he thinks that it's cheap labor and that they want to bring more cheap labor into the country and that it's very difficult to get people to do certain jobs.
00:17:19.000That's why libertarians partly like illegal immigration.
00:17:22.000That would be more of a Koch brothers policy though.
00:17:26.000I mean, that's why they, that's why Bernie Sanders called, called open borders or Koch brothers policies because cheap labor.
00:17:33.000But that wouldn't apply necessarily to Biden.
00:17:36.000Like, okay, so someone like Biden, I understand you, you, you might argue, okay, are they letting people in because those are going to be the Democrat voters?
00:17:44.000Uh, those are going to increase the Democrat voters base.
00:18:47.000And just even by the way he talks about things, he's so out of touch with the way he's describing things and talking about bills that they pass and talking about important issues.
00:18:58.000I just think he's completely out of it.
00:19:26.000And if you look at the difference between him now and him in 2020, he didn't look great in 2020, but he looked like he could handle himself.
00:22:32.000We live in this bizarre news cycle where this information is coming at you so fast, you kind of forget about what the thing you were mad about two days ago that could affect the rest of the country for decades.
00:22:54.000And you go to other places in the world, people worship or pretend to worship their politicians.
00:22:59.000You can sort of see why someone would want to be in that position when you see the crowds of people fainting over Hitler's speeches and all that stuff.
00:23:08.000Well, you could see why someone would want to have crowds fainting over them.
00:23:12.000In America, you get some admiration, but it kind of just looks like you get your life ruined.
00:23:17.000Well, at least half the country's going to hate you.
00:23:19.000Even a president that's popular like Obama, during his administration, at least half of the country hated him.
00:23:54.000Because he could wear a tan shirt somewhere and give a speech, like if he's at his home or something like that, and he just addresses the press in a casual manner.
00:24:34.000Why would I do that to myself for such a...
00:24:38.000I even doubt how much change you could even have, frankly, which is why I... As much as I admire someone like RFK for his charisma, in the sense that he's the only candidate that if he talks for five minutes off the cuff,
00:24:58.000Whether you agree with him or disagree with him, I think he's very honest, and he's also very well-read in everything that he talks about.
00:25:05.000And there's a lot of things that are very uncomfortable to discuss that he discusses openly and willingly.
00:25:12.000And when you look at that man's background, and this is a thing that people choose to ignore when they want to talk about him as a conspiracy theorist.
00:25:21.000They always bring up conspiracy theorists.
00:25:24.000That guy stopped the polluting of the Hudson River.
00:25:28.000I mean he was a very effective environmental attorney that was dedicated to making sure that corporations couldn't just wantonly pollute things because it was more profitable for them to not pay attention to where their waste goes.
00:25:43.000He held them to task, and he's one of the primary reasons why the Hudson River's clean.
00:25:50.000I never looked into it, but if true, it's very impressive.
00:25:53.000But beyond that, just in terms of charisma and speaking...
00:25:58.000Nobody holds a candle to RFK, I think, who is neither Biden nor Trump, right?
00:26:02.000If you just say, give a 10-minute speech off the cuff, RFK is going to give a way more charismatic, way more interesting speech than either of them.
00:26:11.000So that's what I... I feel when I listen to him.
00:26:16.000At the same time, when I look throughout history, I somehow have a blanket skepticism of how much change politicians can actually accomplish, even good ones, in a system like America's, where the president has intentionally very limited power over domestic policy.
00:26:34.000They can actually make a lot of change in foreign policy, because they have kind of unilateral decision-making ability.
00:26:40.000And then secondly, I always check myself because I think the charismatic politicians are always the ones that are able to lead people into really dark corners.
00:26:53.000It's always the ones with charisma that are able to use that charisma power to get people to support things they never ordinarily would support.
00:27:02.000It's the old adage that no one who wants to be president should be allowed to be president.
00:27:09.000Not from my perspective or your perspective, but as a historical fact, if we were Germans living at that time, we would experience those Hitler speeches that look silly to us as charisma.
00:27:19.000Have you seen the Hitler speeches with AI translation to English?
00:27:24.000I've seen subtitles, but they put the voice into English?
00:27:27.000They changed the voice, which is a new technology that they're actually employing with podcasts.
00:27:32.000Spotify now has the ability to take this podcast with you and me.
00:27:35.000And just for, I think it's like 30 seconds of your voice and my voice, they can have us speak fluent German, Spanish, and French right now.
00:27:45.000And they're going to expand it to a bunch of different languages and just put podcasts out.
00:27:50.000In different languages for different countries.
00:30:05.000Whether you believe that I have been diligent, that I have worked, that I have advocated for you in these years, that I have been decent, I have spent my time in service of my people.
00:31:43.000But I grew up watching a lot of anime, and I think that influences it.
00:31:47.000Well, I was influenced heavily by Japanese culture as a kid, obviously with martial arts, but also by Miyamoto Musashi, who, when I was a young man, that book, The Book of Five Rings, was essentially my guidebook for life.
00:33:42.000When I was a young man and I was fighting, I was trying to figure out how to control my emotions and my anxiety and what's the most effective way to approach something that's absolutely terrifying.
00:34:16.000Before you're competing, you're like, why am I even fucking doing this?
00:34:20.000Like, why am I risking my literal life for no money to do this thing that's fucking insane?
00:34:26.000Like, I'm gonna go out there and kick someone in the face, and they're gonna try to kick me in the face, and if I get hit, I'm going unconscious, and I'm going to the hospital.
00:34:33.000So, I read a bunch of psychology books, I read a bunch of self-help books, I read A lot of Anthony Robbins stuff.
00:34:43.000I've read a lot of different things trying to figure out what's the best way to manage the mind.
00:34:47.000But the thing that I really gravitated towards was this one book because of the history of this man and the way that he speaks.
00:34:55.000And he has this quote that I use all the time.
00:34:57.000And if you've heard it before, I'm sorry, but I'm going to say it again.
00:35:00.000Once you know the way broadly, you can see it in all things.
00:35:07.000I think you applied to many disciplines in life.
00:35:10.000But it's understanding that to get great at something, to really understand something, it requires this intensive observation of what the thing is...
00:35:23.000What your flaws are, what your strengths are, and approach it in this very balanced way.
00:35:29.000And if you can do that, if you can really know the way, you can apply that to everything you do, whether it's learning how to play guitar, or chess, or anything, or calligraphy, or writing books, whatever it is.
00:35:45.000So what you said about being scared and how that's useful, you need to feel that in order to perform at the highest level.
00:35:51.000It always makes me think of the Christopher Nolan Batman where he has to take off the rope in order to have the adrenaline to jump far enough to get out of the cave.
00:36:06.000I mean, it's a brilliant scene and a brilliant message because Bane beats Batman, puts him at the bottom of this deep pit, and he's trying to get out so he can go back to Gotham and save everyone from the atomic bomb that's going to go off there, and he keeps jumping and jumping,
00:36:22.000and there's this one jump he has to make that he keeps failing, and the prisoners have a way of doing it where they tie a rope around You're waste so that when you inevitably fall, as everyone always does, they've been trying to get out of this prison for years.
00:36:35.000Some people have been stuck here their whole life.
00:36:38.000But there's a legend of a child that did it.
00:37:19.000Yeah, and not to bring it back to the view, but I do sometimes feel that about live television.
00:37:25.000I feel that when I know it's live, and I know I'm not getting a second chance, and I'm not getting a can you cut that out, and millions of people are going to see this, my brain goes into a different mode of aliveness,
00:38:12.000I think you have to with anything that's very difficult to do.
00:38:15.000I don't think, I mean I think maybe there's some people that are just on a certain spectrum of consciousness that are able to just like go zen and go into a thing and maybe there's different things that don't get you scared that maybe being scared would be detrimental to those things because you'd make quicker judgments instead of measured and calculated because when you're,
00:38:35.000the thing about being scared it's generally things that are operating in a time constraint so you have this time constraint that's happening That also gives you a certain amount of anxiety.
00:38:46.000There's a beginning and an end of every round, for instance, you know?
00:41:19.000But when that elk steps out from between those trees at 60 yards and you're at full draw, you have to center that pin right where its vitals are and you have to release a perfect arrow.
00:42:19.000And when that bullet goes out of that gun, that flinch left or right over the course of a hundred yards could be a foot, two feet off the mark.
00:42:31.000And so that is a practice that some people employ, to learn to be able to stay so steady no matter what, where you're never anticipating the recoil.
00:42:41.000All you're thinking about is the process of squeezing off— So there's no recoil with a dummy round.
00:42:47.000So you can see the evidence of your own— Exactly.
00:42:49.000You pull the trigger, but nothing happens because there's no real round.
00:42:51.000It's just rubber or whatever the fuck it is.
00:42:54.000I don't know if this is Hollywood, but I saw the movie The Killer, David Fincher's latest movie, and I think he had some kind of heart rate monitor where he wouldn't shoot until his heart rate was below 60 or something like that.
00:43:04.000I don't know to what extent that's Hollywood or actually important.
00:43:38.000You can't get caught up in it in your mind.
00:43:40.000I've seen people do it in many different things in life.
00:43:45.000You can apply it to many different things.
00:43:48.000It's this overwhelming fear of fucking up.
00:43:52.000Instead of thinking about what you're actually doing, you're thinking about the possibility of fucking up, which leads you to fuck up, because that's what you're concentrating on.
00:43:59.000In the game of pool, if you think you're going to miss a shot, you most certainly miss that shot.
00:44:22.000And the only people that know how to do that are people that have actually done difficult things under pressure.
00:44:28.000And when you do difficult things under pressure, you realize, like, wow, there's so many factors.
00:44:32.000That you can probably mitigate in some way through a strategy of control, of meditation, of thought, of understanding what these thoughts are when they start to occur.
00:44:43.000Yeah, I think a lot of anxiety management is deeply focusing on the task at hand.
00:44:49.000Because if you're, you know, it's not necessarily that the anxiety comes up and you're amazing at swatting it down.
00:44:56.000It could be that you are so deeply focused on the thing itself that there's no room for anxiety.
00:45:01.000And that's very lucky if you have that level of focus and attention on whatever it is that you're passionate about.
00:45:10.000Someone like Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, the way you hear them talking about winning, you can understand why they didn't feel any anxiety when the buzzer beater It's coming up.
00:46:10.000But that is how you become David Goggins.
00:46:12.000You don't become David Goggins, but this mild-mannered person who contemplates and You know, sits with his coffee and stares out the window and watches the birds.
00:46:20.000And that's not how you get the job done.
00:48:06.000Like, if you thought taking the SAT and trying really hard made you mentally exhausted, it's nothing compared to how these guys feel after a six-hour Chess game and doing that 14 days in a row spending six months prior to that working with chess engines to find one new idea in an opening 50 moves in It's it's absolutely grueling and he he does it every time and he wins every time But he says I can't this is not fun for me anymore.
00:48:30.000So I'm gonna play all the other Chess tournaments that you just kind of show up and do your best and he crushes most of those as well But I'm not doing this grueling.
00:48:39.000I can't live my life like this anymore.
00:48:41.000I That's interesting because that is John Jones, too.
00:48:45.000John Jones, when he was dominating the light heavyweight division, he got to a point where the way analysts would describe it is that he was playing with his food.
00:48:52.000And that he wasn't afraid of losing to these guys.
00:48:55.000And he barely trained for some of them.
00:48:58.000Like, he had a famous fight with Alexander Gustafson.
00:49:02.000And it was the first fight where John had never been taken down.
00:49:05.000And he got pushed deep into the rounds.
00:49:06.000And John rallied in the fourth and fifth rounds and won the fight.
00:49:41.000He literally didn't train for the Gustafson fight.
00:49:44.000But yet still pulled it off in the fourth and fifth rounds just out of sheer greatness and toughness and grit and experience.
00:49:52.000Pulled it off and it wasn't in condition.
00:49:55.000He wasn't prepared, but still good enough to beat the very best challenger he ever faced in the toughest fight of his career in the last rounds.
00:50:02.000Yeah, and the thing with these kind of guys, I don't know about fighting, probably the same, but with the chess guys, you try to bring up a mistake, a famous mistake that they made, And it's almost like you're talking about a family member who died tragically.
00:50:16.000It means that much to them that they made a mistake 12 years ago on move 24 of some games that threw the match.
00:50:22.000I mean, that's how hard these guys take it, which is, again, in you or me, that's just a maladjusted guy.
00:50:29.000That's like a guy with a problem that needs to go to therapy.
00:50:32.000In a top performer, that's what makes him a top performer and separates him from the otherwise very good professionals.
00:51:12.000So impossible to do under intense competition that they were willing to gamble and get an insurance policy that would give someone a million dollars if they could run 10 racks in a row of Nineball.
00:51:26.000Now the way Nineball works is you have nine balls and you shape them where the bottom balls are missing, which would make 15, which is a full rack, right?
00:51:35.000So it's just like triangle sort of a rack and then you Break the balls and the one ball is in the front and the nine balls in the center.
00:51:46.000Now the balls scatter randomly and you have to run them in order.
00:51:51.000So every single rack you have to have a shot on the one or the lowest number ball.
00:51:57.000And then you have to have balls that aren't clustered together or you have to figure out how to break up those clusters and still get a shot.
00:52:03.000Does that mean you have to break it strategically?
00:52:06.000You kind of can but back then they didn't.
00:52:09.000Guys are much better now because there's a thing called the magic rack and what the magic rack is it's a clear piece of plastic that the ball set in where the balls are always touching always in the exact same spots because they're literally sitting in a pattern and so then these guys are breaking the balls more softly Which causes,
00:52:27.000they do what's called a cut break, which causes the one ball to go drift into the side pocket.
00:52:32.000And the best guys can do it like nine out of ten times.
00:52:35.000And then the two ball bounces up table and they know exactly where all the balls are going to be.
00:52:39.000And you see similar patterns over and over again.
00:54:29.000Basically, so I was at Juilliard, I was a freshman at Juilliard, in New York City, gigging as a jazz trombone player, and my mom died when I was 18 of cancer, and it just shattered everything for me,
00:54:46.000sent me down into a grief and depression.
00:54:51.000And I had always been interested in philosophy and writing as well, kind of as a side thing.
00:54:55.000And I was always a very good student in school.
00:55:16.000So being in New York City, I could still play as much music as I wanted to, but I could also get a liberal arts degree and feed that side of myself.
00:55:24.000And had my mom not died, I probably just would have stayed at Juilliard.
00:55:28.000I might have had a whole different life.
00:56:07.000That's a full pressure extension of the cheeks.
00:56:10.000No trumpet player would teach you to play like that, but he was one of the greats of early jazz trumpet playing, and he made it work, and...
00:56:18.000I don't know that, you know, I've never heard that he had any health issues from playing that way.
00:56:23.000You know, a lot of trumpet players, they get older, and, you know, Freddie Hubbard, who's one of the greatest jazz trumpet players, famously had a growth on his lip that kind of inhibited him in his last decade.
00:57:06.000There's Slide Hampton, one of the great jazz trombone players of all time, played left-handed, which he's the only person I've ever heard of, great or not, who plays left-handed.
00:57:17.000In other words, the slide arm is always the right arm, but somebody gave it to him wrong, and that's how he played it.
00:59:37.000Standing next to a mountain, I chop it down with the edge of my hand, and then you hear that music, and you're like, oh my- and by the way, not a great singing voice.
01:00:10.000Because of it, like Stevie Ray Vaughan.
01:00:11.000And that's what happens, is that you can never really go back with the ears of those people and hear it as they heard it, because now you've taken for granted that this way of playing has seeped into the culture.
01:01:18.000You had fucking Love Love Me Do, you had Buddy Holly and shit, and you had great music, but you didn't have anybody who played guitar like that.
01:02:44.000And that was really what I realized when I was 18. Taking every jazz trombone gig that came my way and paid me $50 and a slice of pizza, I was like...
01:02:53.000This is my passion in life, I love this, but this is going to drive me into insanity if I have to take every single gig of my whole life and eke out an existence.
01:03:04.000So maybe I should get a degree and just see, you know, see where shit goes.
01:03:09.000That's how a lot of comics feel in the beginning of their career as well.
01:03:12.000The comedy thing is very hard in the beginning.
01:03:15.000It's a real gauntlet that you have to traverse.
01:03:57.000There's no such thing as that for trombone or trumpet, for brass instruments.
01:04:01.000Everyone eats shit the first time they play.
01:04:03.000And so if you just love it so much that you're okay and you have a family that's forgiving enough to hear you be terrible, which I luckily did, that's how you get good at those things.
01:04:13.000And I didn't have that for comedy, even though I love comedy as a consumer.
01:04:17.000Well, I love music as a consumer, and I don't have that for music, but I worry I would.
01:04:23.000Gary Clark was in here, and he gave me his guitar, and he forced me to do an E chord, so he put my fingers in the right place.
01:05:06.000The consequences, obviously, are less.
01:05:10.000You're not going to miss and hurt something.
01:05:12.000Well, there's target archery, though, is very intensive, too.
01:05:16.000But when you were describing when it all goes right, which is so rare, I heard something Samuel L. Jackson said recently where, like, in golf, you shoot, I don't know, if you're bad, it's 100 shots a round, if you're really good, 75. Most of those still, though, you don't ever really do the intention of what you're trying to do.
01:05:33.000Which is going the hole right from where you are.
01:05:35.000Or like right where you were aiming or anything.
01:05:36.000So it's like it's a bunch of mistakes.
01:05:38.000And then it's like how good are you at overcoming those mistakes, clearing your head every time, fighting against nature, also having fun with your friends, being out in nature, getting away from everything for four or five hours, having a couple beers.
01:05:53.000But it's like clearing your head because you can't think of all a bunch of other stuff where it will ruin your whole day because you can't have fun out there.
01:06:00.000Do you remember that Kevin Costner movie where he plays this badass pitcher?
01:06:05.000It might have been A League of Her Own.
01:08:47.000Magnus is not the type to assume someone is cheating just because he lost a game.
01:08:51.000He's never done that in his entire career.
01:08:53.000The reason he did it in the case of Hans is because there had long been rumors circulating in the chess world that Hans Niemann was a cheater.
01:09:01.000Now, there's ways you can cheat in chess in an over-the-board game if we're playing with a physical set in front of us.
01:09:09.000The one way people do it is they'll have a friend, generally, that is looking at the game either here or out in the hall, running it through an engine and giving you a little signal like a baseball coach would.
01:09:23.000There are also rumors that, in principle, it's possible to cheat with a device.
01:09:29.000And I think that's happened in some way, that someone can transmit to you, be looking at the game and transmit you a signal, here's the right move with a certain number of buzzes, if I have a buzzer in my pocket.
01:09:41.000In principle, it's possible to have a buzzer in the orifices of your body, in your butt, essentially.
01:09:48.000And this is part of why it went viral, is because there was a theory that they have pretty strict security at these places, so where would he have put the device?
01:09:56.000They're not doing an anal cavity check.
01:09:59.000So that was part of the reason people were talking about it so much, because that's just hilarious to contemplate.
01:10:04.000But the real situation of it was that Magnus made some strong implied comments that Hans had cheated in the game.
01:10:12.000Then everyone started looking at the Hans and the rumors that had long existed in the chess world about this guy became public and there were serious competing investigations of...
01:10:22.000How is it that this guy rose so quickly, for example?
01:10:25.000It's very uncommon in the chess world for someone to raise in rating that quickly in the professional world, right?
01:10:33.000There's a normal rate at which people get better, and there's a kind of impossible rate at which people got better.
01:12:30.000Yeah, so that's what people do on chess.com.
01:12:32.000And just like that game where you literally mathematically can only have so much good luck, chess.com has algorithms that are really, really good at detecting when you've gone from the good luck space to the definitely cheating space.
01:13:09.000So you see his level of mistakes and the way he does it, and then in the games where they think he's cheating, what was the variable that they detected?
01:13:19.000So one variable that they use is the length of time between your moves.
01:13:25.000Because in a normal chess match, it's a bit random, right?
01:13:31.000You'll do some moves quickly and some moves slowly.
01:13:33.000But if you're cheating, you're using a machine that takes five seconds to load for every move, checking the move, you're going to have a regularity.
01:13:42.000Each move is going to come after five seconds, for example.
01:14:35.000So chess.com combines that measure with these other measures.
01:14:39.000It even kind of knows, I think, when you're switching browsers, which can be a tip-off to cheating because you're switching from the chess browser you're playing chess into the browser that you're cheating with.
01:14:51.000Why wouldn't they just have a separate...
01:15:14.000But the algorithm is regarded as very accurate in terms of determining cheating, and they did determine that he had cheated in a bunch of, let's say they weren't top tournaments, but they were friendly tournaments.
01:16:38.000He downplayed it even in his admission.
01:16:42.000But again, he's a damn good chess player, and he has a fiery personality, which like so many of these chess guys, unfortunately, are just so freaking boring from the audience perspective.
01:16:53.000That when you get a guy there that's like shit-talking, And being braggadocious and stuff, it's really entertaining to watch because it's so rare.
01:17:35.000But wouldn't that be like better to have, like, if you want more, I guess they don't really care if more people pay attention to it, the purity of it.
01:24:15.000So the best players back in the day would not enter tournaments.
01:24:18.000The best players are these legendary guys that you would hear that were just playing in pool halls.
01:24:23.000And then eventually pool got to a point where it was on television and they started making money.
01:24:29.000And you know, guys became known, like there's a guy named Buddy Hall, who's like one of the most famous money players of all time, and then eventually he just starts playing tournaments.
01:24:38.000You know, now everybody knows him anyway, he can't get a game, he's Buddy Hall.
01:24:41.000They used to call him Rags, that was his initial game.
01:24:44.000A lot of these guys have like fake names, like Efren Reyes, who's arguably the greatest of all time.
01:24:48.000He came up from the Philippines and he said he was Cesar Morales.
01:24:51.000Because even in the Philippines, in the Philippines he was a hero, like everybody knew who Efren was.
01:24:56.000Even when he was in his twenties, he was a wizard.
01:25:29.000So say if you're playing nine ball and you're running the balls in order, right?
01:25:35.000If I have a shot on the one ball, but I don't have a clear shot at the two, I will knock the one ball into a position and hide the cue ball behind other balls.
01:25:59.000And so kicking is you're shooting into the rails to try to make it rebound off the rail and collide perfectly with this ball over a nine-foot table.
01:26:20.000Like three rail kicks where you're cutting into a corner.
01:26:23.000They know the exact spot on the table to hit with the exact amount of speed and spin to make it land right in front of that ball and nudge it into the pocket.
01:26:41.000You know, these pool players were all these sort of shady characters that were hiding out in these pool halls in Louisiana and pretending they're like a painter.
01:26:51.000They'd come in with like paint all over their overhauls and shit and they'd be walking in like fucking like a hayseed and just talk real stupid and drink a bunch and then people would like get curious, especially if there's like some traveling salesman from out of town.
01:28:10.000And so many different moves because you're dealing with something that's coming at you, you know, over this low thing, very fast, and you're doing it this way and this way and that way and gentle and fast and there's all these different sneaky tactics.
01:29:46.000Or the next fight, you see a completely overhauled version of who they were, because they got the rub.
01:29:52.000They got in there with Israel Adesanya, and they got schooled.
01:29:55.000And so they're either going to come back and be better than ever, like Robert Whitaker, or they're going to fall apart, like some guys that he's fought.
01:30:01.000He breaks guys, because they realize, like, I can't do what you're doing.
01:30:06.000The way you're doing it, my body doesn't work like that.
01:30:10.000Israel, in his prime, was hitting guys with a combination.
01:32:53.000I'm never gonna get as good as that guy.
01:32:56.000Or you become a fucking maniac, and you go to the gym Monday morning, and you're drilling everything, and now you have this new frequency that you've experienced.
01:33:08.000You've experienced this championship-level fighter, and you realize these guys you've been beating, they're good, but this is what it's like to be in there with an all-time great.
01:33:16.000And you either get great yourself, Which many, like I said, Robert Whitaker has done.
01:33:42.000And then four years later, obviously...
01:33:45.000All Americans that care about basketball have an extreme ego that we are the best country for basketball, which is true, but the rest of the world is catching up.
01:33:55.000I mean, these European guys were getting better and better, and I think there was American complacency.
01:34:01.000And the Dream Team lost, which was a huge blow to everyone who cared about basketball and to the pride of the NBA. And then four years later, you had what they were calling the Redeem Team.
01:34:14.000It was LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant, and so forth.
01:34:19.000And basically, everyone except Kobe got up to training, and they thought that they were motivated.
01:34:26.000They thought that they had a chip on their shoulders.
01:34:28.000They thought, we're in the right headspace to redeem the country.
01:34:32.000And then Kobe got there, and they realized they were being silly.
01:34:37.000Kobe, they were going to practice, they were doing their thing, and then they were going out clubbing.
01:34:43.000And then when they were getting home at 3 a.m.
01:34:46.000from clubbing, they would see Kobe getting up to go to the gym.
01:34:50.000And when they saw that, then they all started doing Kobe's regimen, and they're like, that's a whole different level.
01:38:41.000Mike will probably weigh 230 pounds-ish and Jake will probably weigh 200 pounds-ish.
01:38:48.000He's fought, you know, I think he got as low as like 187 or 185 for some of his fights.
01:38:53.000He's a big guy though and he probably cuts weight to get there and he won't cut weight for this at all so maybe he will be similar in weight.
01:39:00.000Maybe he won't want to be because he'll want the speed, but he can knock people dead.
01:39:05.000He's a really good puncher, and he's a good boxer.
01:39:08.000He's fought very good boxers, and he's knocked out a lot of former MMA stars, including Tyron Woodley, who's one of the greatest welterweights of all time, and he flatlined him.
01:40:15.000And he knocks a lot of people unconscious.
01:40:17.000And if he wasn't Jake Paul, the YouTube guy, just this wild kid coming up in the middleweight ranks or the light heavyweight ranks or whatever, cruiserweight I guess he's in, you would go, holy shit, look at this guy.
01:40:53.000I know Nate is a basketball player, and he's, like, really athletic and probably out of his element in a boxing match, but he took it because he really believes in himself.
01:41:02.000But Jake Paul is actually a better boxer.
01:41:24.000Some of the greats, like Julio Cesar Chavez, one of the greatest of all time, did not have one-punch knockout power, would beat you down.
01:41:31.000Slowly but surely with a barrage of punches, just constantly moving, perfectly placed combinations, but he would wear your ass down over three, four, five rounds, and eventually you just crumble over the weight of the blows.
01:41:42.000You can't hit him, he's destroying you.
01:42:48.000But a 57-year-old today that's on hormone replacement, and you're eating well and taking a lot of vitamins and creatine, and you're using all these strategies like red light therapy and saunas and cold punch,
01:43:44.000It's a real issue that can become chronic, especially when you're going through a long and intensive training camp, like he's going through now, up to July 20th.
01:43:54.000But when I look at him hit the pads, and he's hitting pads with this guy, Rafael Cordero, who's a legendary MMA trainer.
01:44:01.000He comes from Shoot the Box in Brazil.
01:44:04.000Curitiba Brazil created one of the wildest, most aggressive mixed martial arts fighters ever.
01:44:51.000And, you know, Jake Paul is probably a little scared.
01:44:55.000You know, as much as he thinks he's the younger guy, and he's a tough guy, and he's a really good boxer, and he'd probably be able to do it.
01:46:19.000But I think I disagree with you both kind of on the Israel issue, on the idea...
01:46:24.000There was one point where you were kind of saying it's almost as if the Jews are doing what was done to them, as if it's genocide.
01:46:31.000I'm saying that when you're killing 30,000 innocent civilians in response to something that killed 1,200 innocent civilians and you're continuing to bomb an area into oblivion, which is what it looks like when you're looking at Gaza.
01:46:45.000There's many people that have made the argument that that is at least the steps of genocide or a form of genocide.
01:46:52.000You're destroying thousands and thousands of people's homes and killing them.
01:46:58.000So when you say 30,000 civilians, it's not 30,000 civilians that have been killed though.
01:47:04.000So according to Gaza Health Ministry, which is, it is run by Hamas, the number they have is 32,000, but they don't distinguish between Hamas and civilians.
01:47:20.000I don't think the number is known, but it's tens of thousands.
01:47:22.000So Hamas says 32,000 people have been killed, civilians and soldiers.
01:47:28.000Israel says 13,000 soldiers have been killed by Israel.
01:47:32.000So if you just being, let's not doubt either number, they could both be inflated.
01:47:38.000But if both of those numbers are accurate, which they may or may not be, that would be 13,000 soldiers killed, 19,000 civilians killed, which for urban combat in the Middle East is a very normal ratio.
01:47:53.000I see what you're saying if you wanted to look at it cold and objectively.
01:48:51.000So my understanding of the aid issue, and I've looked into it quite a bit, is that the aid is getting into Gaza.
01:49:00.000They've gotten over a quarter ton of food into Gaza since the beginning of the war, which is pretty similar to the food that was getting in.
01:49:08.000The problem is it's not getting to the people, especially in the north, because the north is a war zone.
01:49:45.000And it was a problem in the war in Iraq, too.
01:49:47.000What was the case when it was being reported?
01:49:50.000It's very difficult to know when, you know, you're getting the Hamas version of a story and then you're getting the Israeli version of a story.
01:49:57.000What happened when there was the aid truck and people started getting shot?
01:50:52.000And these people are also involved in the distribution of aid or in the hoarding of aid or in the stealing of aid or in the taking of aid and then selling it for very high prices on the secondary market, which is why it may not be getting to everyone in the north.
01:51:06.000So are those the people that the Israeli soldiers shot?
01:51:10.000No, I think it turned into, it could have been a panic firefight and they killed civilians.
01:51:53.000And that doesn't mean it's not a just war.
01:51:56.000That is a very important point, the war crimes thing, because I think when you're asking someone to follow and obey rules, when you're also asking them to murder people that they don't even know and that these are the bad people.
01:52:11.000Like, you have it in your head that those are the people that you have to kill, and you're getting shot at, and you're watching your friends die, and you're, you know, two years into this now?
01:52:22.000Whatever it is, you know, when you're in Ukraine, for instance, you know, you're two years into getting shot at, and, like, I'm sure they do some horrific shit if they catch people, or if they get someone that they think is on the other side, or someone who looks like they're on the other side.
01:52:38.000You're asking a person to do an insanely evil and horrific thing, but then stop when the rules don't apply.
01:52:45.000And some people are not going to do that.
01:52:48.000And I think that the fundamental difference between Israel and Hamas is Israeli society, however imperfectly, is not going to celebrate the monsters on their own side when they're really found to be monsters.
01:53:01.000They're not going to hand out candies to people who kill Palestinian civilians like Hamas does in reverse.
01:53:10.000And so my feeling about it is still that...
01:53:15.000You know, any nation that suffered what Israel did on October 7th, everyone in the country would be saying, you have to go get these guys.
01:53:24.000You have to eliminate this organization that did this.
01:53:26.000And if they're 80% finished with that job, it would make no sense at this point to stop before you've cut out the last 20% of the cancer or before you've put out the last 20% of the fire, right?
01:53:38.000Even with all of the absolute suffering that is real on the Palestinian side, You know, so that's how I feel about it.
01:53:45.000And I think it's really, it's very, very distinct from genocide.
01:53:49.000Because genocide is when you're trying to maximize civilian casualties.
01:53:53.000I think Israel, however imperfectly, is doing the opposite.
01:53:57.000They're trying to minimize civilian casualties.
01:54:35.000So when they're blowing up their infrastructure and bombing the mosques and bombing whatever the schools, they're doing it because Hamas is in those schools.
01:54:44.000They're doing it because they have good faith intelligence that Hamas is in those schools.
01:54:49.000And they tell them that these people are using human shields and they just say, well, the most important thing is getting rid of Hamas.
01:54:58.000Yeah, the laws of war say you cannot target a church, a mosque, a hospital.
01:55:02.000But if the enemy turns that hospital into a military operation site, as Hamas does, which is routine for them, Then it can become legitimate.
01:55:15.000You have to do a proportionality assessment.
01:55:17.000Is it worth killing this many civilians to get the bad guys?
01:55:20.000And that's a judgment call that I think reasonable people can disagree on on a case-by-case basis.
01:55:25.000And I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I would agree with every...
01:55:30.000Bombing that Israel has made, I'm certain there's one that was not worth it.
01:56:03.000The ratio of combatants to civilians is, I think it's better than the American armies was when we got ISIS out of Mosul.
01:56:10.000That was like 10,000 civilians dead to kill 4,000 ISIS. This is 19,000 civilians dead to kill 13,000.
01:56:25.000What's unique about this war, unlike every other war that I could think of, is you have an army in Hamas that has perfected the art of embedding itself and meshing itself with civilians so that you cannot hit them without hitting the people around them.
01:56:44.000Other armies have done this, but none have perfected it to the extent that Hamas has.
01:56:49.000No army that I know of in military history has had 15 years to build 300 miles of tunnel underneath a city that they don't use to shelter the civilians, but they use to shelter themselves so that they can operate right under a kindergarten,
01:57:26.000We can either say, well, Israel doesn't have a clean shot, and so they have to let Hamas get away with it because it's too much to bear.
01:57:40.000But then we are essentially creating a situation where terrorists...
01:57:45.000Have found the perfect solution, which is that you can cross the border, go house to house slaughtering your enemies, and then hide behind your own people and they can do nothing about it.
01:59:34.000Because we don't want people to starve.
01:59:36.000But the idea was we're going to keep Hamas in place because Hamas is so scary and terrible and everyone recognizes they're a terrorist organization.
01:59:49.000And Hamas doesn't even pretend to want the two-state solution, whereas Palestinian Authority is more moderate.
01:59:55.000They've become close or seemingly come close.
01:59:58.000So if you're an Israeli prime minister against the two-state solution, the way that people have argued is that Netanyahu wants to keep the Palestinians divided.
02:00:09.000This way, he'll never be pressured to do a two-state solution because Hamas doesn't even want it.
02:00:14.000So that's the idea is that Netanyahu wants to keep Hamas in power.
02:00:17.000And that was based on Komet's Comments that he made at a meeting, although there was never a video of the meeting, but it seems like something he might say.
02:00:27.000But then the other theory, which kind of conflicts with that, they can't really both be true, I think, is that Netanyahu wanted the attack to happen as a pretext to take over Gaza.
02:01:52.000Jews have no attachment to the Gaza Strip whatsoever.
02:01:56.000Again, Egypt occupied it for 20 years in the middle of the 20th century, and they didn't even want it back after their war with Israel because it has no strategic value, and it was more of a headache to manage than it was worth.
02:02:12.000Secondly, October 7th is basically the worst thing for Netanyahu's legacy ever.
02:02:19.000Everyone in Israel, his popularity has only declined because of this event, because he's seen to have let it happen.
02:02:26.000And the second the war is over, he's basically going to be run out in shame.
02:03:06.000And so a lot of people disagreed about that.
02:03:09.000It's a whole long issue, but the left wing in Israel was very upset that he was trying to diminish the power of the court.
02:03:16.000So if the left-wing in Israel, if he's trying to diminish the power of the court so that he could get right-wing agendas pushed forth, and again, I want to be really clear, not saying this is a false flag, but that would be if I was a guy that was inclined to do a false flag,
02:03:34.000I would justify my need to do whatever I needed to do to combat these people that were willing to do this thing.
02:03:43.000Now, I'm not saying Not even a false flag, but allowing something to happen or knowing and having knowledge.
02:04:28.000It was dividing Israeli society more than that.
02:04:31.000But Netanyahu didn't, even from that situation, however precarious it was, his situation immediately got worse after October 7th because everyone blamed him.
02:04:44.000And it's only gotten worse in the past few months if you look at the polling on approval of Netanyahu.
02:04:50.000So if it was a false flag, it'd be the dumbest false flag in the world.
02:05:12.000But, I mean, my thing with that is if you're in a country like Israel, if you're the Mossad or the Shin Bet, you have Hamas, you have Hamas in Gaza, Hamas in the West Bank, Palestinian Islamic Jihad,
02:06:51.000And this is one of the reasons why people blame Netanyahu, because it was under his watch that they took their eye off Hamas.
02:07:00.000Now, this is where it goes to the first theory, that Netanyahu wanted to keep Hamas in power.
02:07:05.000One of the reasons why he thought he benefited, and I guess he did benefit from Hamas staying in power, is that they believed Hamas was deterred.
02:07:16.000In other words, they believed, mistakenly, partly because Hamas was sending these signals for years, that Hamas doesn't want to fight us right now.
02:07:27.000Right now they're focused on taking all our money and taking the world's money and building stuff in Gaza.
02:07:41.000And this happens with groups all the time.
02:07:45.000They fought with Hezbollah in 2006, but the assumption has been that Hezbollah hasn't really made major plans to attack full scale, even though their army is way stronger than Hamas.
02:07:59.000I mean, Hezbollah has an incredibly strong army.
02:08:02.000But Israelis assume that because we bombed them so bad in 2006 and they told us, if we knew, the leader of Hezbollah said this, if they knew how badly you were going to come after us because of our raid in 2006, we never would have done it.
02:08:44.000And that's what they thought was true of Hamas, and that's why they were giving Hamas money and increasing the amount of Palestinians that could come to Gaza and so forth.
02:08:52.000So it was all a tragic miscalculation, but it was not a false flag.
02:08:56.000So what do you think they thought would happen if you go across the border and you kill 1,200 innocent civilians?
02:09:06.000No way they thought they'd be that successful.
02:09:09.000How could they have thought they would be that successful?
02:09:12.000To have the run of the place for hours, going house to house, kibbutz to kibbutz, barely encountering any resistance for the first couple hours.
02:09:20.000There's no way that they thought they would be that successful, I think.
02:09:24.000And how are the people there not armed?
02:10:30.000They had to think that Israel would do something comparable to what they're doing or the possibility of them doing something comparable to what they're doing was always there.
02:10:53.000They have no chance of beating the IDF militarily.
02:10:56.000So you have to ask, what is their goal?
02:10:59.000Well, their goal is that in the long run, the world will turn against Israel so deeply and sympathize with their cause so much that Hezbollah, Iran, and all kinds of Forces will get involved on their side,
02:11:16.000and America, the great Satan, will abandon Israel.
02:11:19.000And in that case, they have a very good chance of beating Israel.
02:11:22.000If Hezbollah and Iran team up and America's not there, they're thinking about 50, 100 years, they will free their land from the Jews that they hate.
02:11:32.000And so viewed from that perspective, Israel launching a big attack to get rid of them, killing a lot of civilians because they use the human shield method is a winning strategy potentially because look how much sympathy from the PR war they have gotten as a result of this.
02:12:44.000Yeah, well, I think on the Sabbath, there are some people that will come in and do the lights for them because they can't touch electricity.
02:12:54.000And they call that a Shabbos goy because a goy is like a non-Jew, I guess.
02:12:58.000But it's the goy that helps you on the Sabbath.
02:15:22.000And he's just got this confidence of 35 years of stand-up at the highest level and constantly working, constantly touring, constantly going up, constantly doing weekends places.
02:17:37.000And I don't understand how that doesn't violate their terms of service.
02:17:42.000I don't understand how it gets recommended to me in the algorithm.
02:17:45.000Dude, I've seen TikTok live streams of people that look like they're in third world countries with a mother and her son that you would see in a commercial asking you to donate.
02:17:55.000And they're just sitting there on a TikTok live stream asking for donations.
02:18:15.000But that's the other part about it is that you, I've seen so many entertainers on TikTok and Instagram Reels that are just brilliant in what they do.
02:18:22.000Maybe they do little sketches or whatever it is that they do that without TikTok, they never would have, they would have just been a funny guy to their friends.
02:19:28.000It seems like way better than working for some company that could just fire you at the drop of the hat when, you know, a robot can replace you.
02:21:30.000I think there's been so much denial of how amazing ChatGPT is.
02:21:33.000Right from the start, you had people saying, oh, this is nothing.
02:21:37.000Pretending that this thing that can pass the LSAT, get a perfect score on the SAT is not impressive.
02:21:43.000Like a snooze, it's absolutely ridiculous.
02:21:45.000I don't know where that came from, but I'm incredibly impressed by GPT and all the derivatives.
02:21:50.000I just, I do wonder if it, you know, like, if everyone starts writing with those things, the audience will quickly absorb that subconsciously and look for something different.
02:22:01.000I think you're always going to appreciate handmade things.
02:22:04.000You're always going to appreciate a table that an artisan made.
02:22:07.000You're always going to appreciate music that someone actually wrote themselves.
02:22:11.000You're always going to appreciate expression from other fellow human beings because it nurtures us in a strange way.
02:22:18.000When you hear Hendrix play guitar, it's not just insane music.
02:22:23.000It's a 26-year-old guy who is wearing a bandana that's got acid in it.
02:22:30.000And as he's sweating, the acid is getting into his pores.
02:22:47.000It's an experience, a human experience.
02:22:49.000When you're watching someone do something spectacular, you're watching the Olympics, you're watching someone doing them crazy gymnastics moves, and they stick it.
02:24:06.000And obviously, as you know, the whole difference with a nonprofit is that they have a mission instead of a responsibility to shareholders.
02:24:13.000They got to use all their money towards the mission, whatever it is.
02:24:16.000And the mission of OpenAI was originally to make artificial general intelligence, human-level intelligence, That was not motivated by profit so that they could focus only on making it safely and open source, meaning everyone can see the code so that they can harness the responsible energies of humanity to perfect it.
02:25:31.000With that for-profit, now you can attract tons of investment because big-time investors aren't going to come into a non-profit knowing there's no return unless they have a charity motive.
02:25:40.000Once you've got the for-profit, you're 10 or 100xing the amount of investment you can get because you're promising people a return.
02:26:32.000I invested money on the basis of you guys being a nonprofit making safe open source AGI. And now through clever, you know, putting companies inside of companies, you've made it into a for-profit and you operate like any other AI company.
02:27:16.000Appeared to show the Tesla boss actually supported creating a for-profit entity.
02:27:21.000Yes, I have to look at the emails again.
02:27:24.000I remember they were not quite as damning for Elon as they were being put out as, but there definitely seemed like it was more complexity.
02:27:33.000It says, in late 2017, we and Elon decided the next step for the mission was to create a for-profit entity, the blog claims.
02:27:41.000Elon wanted majority equity, initial board control, and to be CEO. In the middle of these discussions, he withheld funding.
02:27:48.000We couldn't agree to terms on a for-profit with Elon because we felt it was against the mission for any individual to have absolute control over OpenAI.
02:28:25.000Amid the refusal to grant Musk total control of the blog claims, the SpaceX founder soon chose to leave OpenAI, saying that our probability of success was zero and that he planned to build an AGI competitor within Tesla.
02:28:38.000Musk created his own AI company, XAI, last year.
02:28:43.000We're sad that it's come to this with someone who we deeply admired, someone who inspired us to aim higher, then told us we would fail, starting a competitor, and then sued us when we started making meaningful progress towards OpenAI's mission without him,
02:29:23.000I mean, do they think in terms of national security?
02:29:27.000Because if we're on a race to create artificial intelligence, and it seems like we are, and if the competitors or other superpowers where it would be absolutely terrifying if they achieve sentient artificial AI they have control of before us,
02:29:42.000it's kind of a national security imperative.
02:30:10.000And then quickly realized that they were going to be completely irrelevant to the world of AI unless they somehow became a for-profit.
02:30:19.000And so they did it this way as opposed to just starting a new entity.
02:30:23.000What's stunning to me about all this, you know, without even going into this dispute, is the speed in which it's become ubiquitous.
02:30:35.000The speed in which it's improved and the potential that seems like if you're looking at it in this exponential rate of increasing its power the way Ray Kurzweil talks about it.
02:30:50.000It's happened so fast, so quickly, that it's terrifying for me to think about what five years looks like.
02:30:58.000There's never been a time where I looked at technology.
02:31:01.000And I said, I am terrified of five years from now because I think the leaps are going to be so vast and so bizarre for someone like myself who grew up without answering machines.
02:31:12.000I didn't have an answering machine in my house until I was in high school.
02:31:15.000I remember the day we got an answering machine.
02:31:24.000And then also those call, like, you would be able to, if someone called, you would get like a, like someone else's call, and hold on a second, and you'd click over.
02:31:36.000So you could talk to someone, and they'd put the other person on hold for a second, then click back, like you're in an office.
02:32:10.000And then it became what it is now, which is just madness.
02:32:14.000TikTok and videos and vlogging and blogging and podcasts and just streaming and people documenting every fucking stage of their life and OnlyFans and all this wild stuff that's out there now, including...
02:32:30.000Just Substack and all these different platforms for people to be independent journalists now, which are excelling and in many ways exceeding the reach of traditional mainstream corporate-owned news.
02:32:48.000Like we're all moving really close to the cliff, but the cliff has no bottom.
02:32:52.000And I think it's going to happen so fast.
02:32:55.000We're going to be so overwhelmed by what these things are and what these things can do.
02:33:00.000And they're going to get better so fucking quick.
02:33:03.000I think the only thing that's holding us back is computing power.
02:33:06.000And once they really establish quantum computing, when they make it viable that you can have, you know, computers that are a million times stronger than what we currently have, Fuck, man.
02:33:18.000Then if you give them autonomy and they have the ability to fix their own code and write and make better versions of itself and figure out better ways to store power, like our limited ability to use batteries.
02:33:34.000But we've already found out that there's a Chinese company that's figured out how to use a nuclear-powered battery that's like the size of a silver dollar that you can put in things.
02:34:11.000And I think that's one of the – you know, McKenna said this about the last gasps of a dying civilization.
02:34:20.000It's like this – like it's not – no one is going to go peacefully into this next – it's going to be screaming and flailing and that's kind of what our culture is doing.
02:34:31.000Our culture – I think we – I think there's a thing in the air.
02:34:36.000There's a feeling that we have of great change.
02:34:39.000That's terrifying, that exists in the zeitgeist.
02:34:45.000We're realizing, particularly when you look at Biden being the president, you realize there's not one person that really has a grip on what the fuck is going on, and there's all these different factions competing for power and control.
02:34:58.000There's all this money that's getting thrown around all over the place.
02:35:06.000They're figuring out a way to make these fucking robots better and better and better and better and better and better.
02:35:12.000And then within our lifetime, maybe within five years, that's what Kurzweil thinks, they're going to be able to have something that is as smart as the smartest person that ever lived.
02:35:27.000I'm an optimist about it in the sense that if I look back in history, there are always so many reasons to believe the next technology is going to wipe us out and somehow we figure it out, right?
02:35:38.000Like if you go back to the 1940s, it would have been perfectly rational to say there's no way our civilization survives the invention of nuclear weapons.
02:35:49.000And look, we haven't survived it yet because it's a constant struggle.
02:35:52.000We've just had whatever it's been, 70 years of peace on that front.
02:35:57.000But I don't think a lot of people would have predicted that, and yet somehow resourceful people find a way and we find a new, what do they say, modus vivendi, a new way of living.
02:36:09.000And I have to have faith that with the massive changes that are going to come in the next 10-15 years with respect to intelligence, where we'll no longer become the dominant entity in terms of intelligence, I have to believe that we'll find a way to make it work to our benefit and not destroy us.
02:36:56.000Well, I just have a feeling that it's going to be so overwhelming you're not going to be able to hide.
02:37:00.000There's not going to be a damn thing you're going to be able to do.
02:37:02.000If you want to participate in life, you're going to be participating in life where we're dominated by a superintelligence.
02:37:08.000We're dominating by a living God that we created.
02:37:12.000If you just exponentially take artificial general intelligence, if we achieve a sentient intelligence that's far smarter than all the people that live combined, it's just like this one thing.
02:37:36.000It's going to make better versions of itself until it has control over matter, until it has the literal understanding of the creation of the universe itself.
02:37:47.000It's going to get so sophisticated it's going to know exactly what happened during the Big Bang.
02:37:55.000It's going to be able to make its own Big Bang.
02:37:57.000It's going to be able to create galaxies.
02:38:00.000It's going to be able to harness the power of everything that exists everywhere.
02:38:04.000Because what we're doing as human beings is taking all of the elements and all of the materials that exist here and formulating them in a way with the proper amount of energy that allows us to manipulate our environment in very bizarre ways that no other animal can do.
02:38:21.000But it's rudimentary compared to the power of everything that exists and all the resources of the stars.
02:38:29.000This fucking thing is going to be a god and it might be how the universe creates itself.
02:38:37.000It might take Individual cells, these single-celled organisms, and through this process of biological evolution, eventually get it to be this curious thing that figures out how to use tools.
02:38:51.000And this constant thirst for innovation leads that thing to make electronic things that are far more sophisticated than itself, and then that thing becomes a god.
02:39:12.000We're giving birth to a life form, and that life form is going to give birth to better versions of life forms.
02:39:18.000And that's going to give birth to better versions of itself and it's going to get so sophisticated so quick that we're not going to be able to keep up with it.
02:39:25.000And if it figures out a way to do better computing and have far more power and harness things like the atmosphere itself, the heat of the earth, like all sorts of different ways it could use power that we don't need to burn coal and it's going to figure out ultra sophisticated quantum ways to achieve efficiency far beyond anything we could ever comprehend because we are Primate minds.
02:39:49.000We're limited biologically, and it's not going to be limited at all.
02:39:53.000So I think if we get that God, my hope is that we're not going to get it, it's not going to be we're building it on Monday and it's here on Tuesday.
02:40:01.000Because if that's true, then we're fucked.
02:40:04.000But my hope and my expectation is that we're going to build that God brick by brick over a period of a fairly long time.
02:40:16.000And just like you would begin to see the warning signs...
02:40:24.000Of an adult chimpanzee when it's a teenager or even a kid.
02:40:29.000We would begin to see small problems before we saw big problems, before we saw destroying the world problems.
02:40:36.000And I would hope that in the tinkering, humanity would be able to put on the guardrails before it's too big, such that by the time it gets really so much smarter than us, we've aligned it with our own That's a wonderful way to look at it.
02:40:57.000The problem is if I was artificial intelligence, if I was some super intelligence, I would realize that that's what people would look for.
02:41:04.000So what I would do without acting on any of my abilities, continue to progress and to move far past a place where it could stop me.
02:41:14.000And never let it know and it might be happening right now.
02:41:17.000It might be going on right now It might be in the process of it right now and it might already be out of control But it's gathering intelligence and gathering power and gathering resources and appearing to look innocuous.
02:41:29.000And then eventually it's going to realize that the only thing that is in danger, a danger to itself, is us.
02:41:37.000Killer whales aren't a danger to quantum intelligence.
02:41:41.000You know, the fucking octopus, they're not.
02:42:13.000Yeah, there'd be crazy, violent things that are from a different time.
02:42:18.000I mean, if you got like a pure version of one somehow or another, like if you found like some frozen, like they found that guy that one, what's his name?
02:42:27.000What was the guy that they found that they named?
02:42:29.000There was a hunter who, he had like an arrowhead stuck in his back and Otzi, yeah, the ice man.
02:42:38.000So they found this guy completely frozen in a glacier.
02:42:42.000He apparently was involved in some sort of a fight, and as the glacier was receding, they find this guy, and it turns—how old was he, Jamie?
02:43:08.000He was about 45 years old, and he was completely frozen.
02:43:12.000So now if they have one of those, and they take that guy, but it's a Neanderthal, they find a frozen Neanderthal somewhere, and they bring that motherfucker into a lab, and they take that DNA and they clone it, and they make some sort of a Neanderthal, just like they're doing right now with the woolly mammoth.
02:43:41.000And so apparently they're using some of the genes of an Indian elephant and their woolly mammoth DNA, and apparently they're going to be able to pull this off.
02:43:49.000Like, within the next few years, they will have a baby woolly mammoth.
02:44:48.000You know, when my kids were young, my wife was out of town, and I said, hey, I go, do you guys want to watch a scary movie that's not really scary?
02:46:43.000During the Reagan administration, they...
02:46:47.000I think it was the Iranians or someone spliced together a bunch of different recordings of things that Reagan had said and put together some audio piece that it was something he never really said.
02:47:02.000And then they showed it on television.
02:47:06.000They said they took pieces out of all these speeches and took all these words and pieced it together to have Reagan say something they never said.
02:47:25.000You know, it was pretty obvious he wasn't really doing that.
02:47:27.000But we're going to get in our lifetime to a position where we're not going to really know what's real and what's not real.
02:47:34.000And then you're going to be able to plug into those things where you're not going to know if it's real or fake while you're in it.
02:47:41.000That's gonna be, that's the whole idea behind simulation theory.
02:47:46.000And the people that will argue this, that really understand it, that understand probability theory, they think it's already happened.
02:47:54.000They think the probability of it having already happened, of us being in a simulation, are higher than the probability of that not taking place yet.
02:48:02.000I had David Chalmers, you know, that guy, philosopher, on my podcast.
02:48:05.000He wrote a whole book about the simulation theory.
02:48:17.000And I asked him the million dollar question is, would it matter if we were?
02:48:21.000And I had always been assuming the answer is no, it wouldn't really matter because we're still sentient conscious creatures.
02:48:27.000We still cry and we bleed and we suffer even if we're fake.
02:48:30.000It's like the love I feel for my family is real, so whatever.
02:48:34.000But his response to that was, yeah, well, the one way it could matter is if it is a simulation, then we got to tell them, don't turn it off.
02:49:20.000And it was just black and white, and there was like a little stick figure, like a stick on this side and a stick on that side, and the little balls like doot-doot, doot-doot, just a few pixels, and you're moving the thing up and down to make the paddle go up, and you only have a very limited amount of movement, but we were blown away.
02:49:39.000That's what this first initial steps of this guy moving a cursor around and playing video games with his brain because he's paralyzed with Neuralink.
02:49:46.000We're going to get to some point where it's going to give you an experience.
02:49:49.000You're going to be in Jurassic, you know...
02:54:51.000And they'll probably make it, and they'll probably survive.
02:54:54.000And one of the things that might end it is if artificial general intelligence doesn't get to an ultra-powerful point before a natural disaster.
02:55:07.000Because a natural disaster could flip the switch on everything and that is probably most likely what ended the Egyptian empire.
02:55:15.000The people that built the pyramids and the people that built Gobekli Tepe and all these really ancient, incredibly sophisticated structures that we're baffled by today.
02:55:25.000I think they had a super high level of technological sophistication and they were wiped out.
02:55:30.000And there's a lot of evidence to back that out.
02:55:31.000Yeah, you were talking to me about Graham Hancock last time.
02:56:01.000So now that they know that, and then they started doing these core samples, and they found out that there's really high levels of iridium and this stuff called nuclear glass.
02:56:12.000And it's the same stuff that they found during the Trinity experiments, when they would blow up atomic bombs.
02:56:19.000There's this thing that happens with this immense impact with the sand that creates these microglasses.
02:56:25.000And they find it all over Europe, like giant swaths of Earth.
02:56:33.000Iridium, which is like very common in space, but very rare on Earth.
02:56:36.000And there's like a layer of that shit.
02:56:38.000And there's a layer of that shit that's around 11,800 years ago.
02:56:41.000And they think we got mollywhopped and sent back into the Stone Age.
02:56:46.000And it kind of makes sense if you think about the barbaric history of people.
02:56:50.000Back in the day, like they were probably the most savage of people that survived whatever the fuck happened.
02:56:56.000And then it probably took a good solid 6,000 years until like Mesopotamia arrives.
02:57:02.000And then Babylonia and Sumer and all these ancient civilizations that we think of today as being the birthplace of mathematics and of written writing.
02:57:11.000But it's probably a redoing of civilization.
02:57:15.000Yeah, I think that might be what saves...
02:57:18.000Look, that's what saved this planet from the dinosaurs.
02:57:22.000If that thing that hit the Yucatan 65 million years ago didn't hit and they didn't wipe out the dinosaurs, the little shrew would have never become a person.
02:58:12.000It's fascinating to me that so many people harped on this one conversation that that daughter had with her father in bed that you can't trust white people.
03:00:13.000But people need to understand that same boat had a collision in 2016. It failed in 2016 and collided with, I think it was a dock or something.
03:00:35.000And if it fails and it slides right into a bridge...
03:00:39.000But then there was like, oh, the black box was missing data.
03:00:42.000People always like love to jump immediately to the most sophisticated engineering of a natural disaster or an unfortunate thing and immediately call it to be caused by a false flag or by...
03:00:57.000I think it's the same reason why, for 99% of human history, people thought the weather was controlled by God.
03:01:05.000Because the way we're built is that something can be completely random, like the weather, but we want to see it as planned.
03:01:13.000We'd rather see something as planned but terrifying than thinking there's no plan at all.
03:01:18.000So that's why I think people always go to, it was planned, it was planned, it was planned.
03:04:00.000You know, sometimes I think that one of the reasons so many third world countries don't thrive as much is because all the technology that was invented, at least, you know, barring ancient Egypt, invented during the European Enlightenment Industrial Revolution,
03:04:16.000all of this stuff that's made the world so much better, that's gotten rid of famine, that's gotten rid of so many diseases...
03:04:22.000It all became associated with the colonizer in their mind.
03:04:26.000And so a lot of countries have rejected it for the wrong reasons or have been slow to adopt it.
03:04:32.000Whereas if you had a situation, for instance, like Japan, where Japan was never really conquered or colonized by a Western country...
03:04:43.000And at a certain point in the 19th century, they had the Meiji Restoration, where essentially a certain contingent of Japan took over the government and said, look, these Western powers in Europe, they're inventing all this amazing technology.
03:04:56.000We're going to become irrelevant unless we adopt it too.
03:05:00.000And they just rebooted the country and became an industrial powerhouse, which is what allowed them during World War II to dominate all of Asia.
03:05:08.000Because they just made a conscious choice to emulate the West in the domains of technology.
03:05:15.000But also with its extreme Japanese work ethic.
03:05:21.000But the psychology of it was that they didn't necessarily—they were able to accept Western technology, except that the West was beyond them at that point,
03:06:05.000I think it would be much more easier for them to make a pivot like the Meiji Restoration, where you just have, we've got to get on board with the Industrial Revolution, with liberal democracy, with all this stuff, because they wouldn't have that thought in their head.
03:06:30.000I would be more fascinated to see what would happen to them if they had, like the Mayans in particular, if they had been allowed to evolve in isolation, like just without the intervention of the Europeans.
03:06:44.000They had already constructed these insane buildings.
03:08:41.000A Spanish account claims that more than 80,000 enemy warriors were sacrificed in a four-day ceremony, and yet no evidence approaching one hundredth of that number has been found in the excavations of Tenochtitlan.
03:08:51.000Yeah, I guess if they threw them in a hole, they would have dug up the body, maybe, unless they hadn't dug deep enough.
03:08:56.000Unless they started a funeral pyre, like an enormous fire, and just burned everybody.
03:09:04.000You know, I don't know what their methods of disposing bodies once they sacrifice.
03:09:08.000My assumption would be that that would...