In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, Joe talks to an old friend of his who has a theory about the mystery of the Great Pyramid of Giza. Dr. Peter Tompkins is a professor of engineering and archaeology at the University of California, Los Angeles, who has been involved in the field of Ancient Egyptology for over 40 years. He has been a long-time member of the Ancient Egypt Society, and is a regular contributor to many publications. He is also the author of the book, "The Great Pyramid: A Lost Science: An Ancient Egyptian Idea." He has worked with some of the world s most famous archaeologists, and has been one of the most influential people in Egyptology. In this episode, we discuss his theories, and how he came up with the idea for the theory, and why he thinks it could be the key to finding the missing piece of the ancient Egyptian artifact known as The Great Pyramid. Joe also discusses his theories about the design of the pyramid, and what it could possibly be used to figure out what is going on in the ancient Egyptian mystery and why it might be a lost science. Thanks for listening to this episode! Joe Rogans Experience is a podcast by day, all day, by night, all the time. Check it out! Check out the show on YouTube: by day. by night. Thank you for tuning in! - all day! Joe's Journeyman Podcast by Night, All Day! by Night. - by Night by Day, All Night by Night by Day by Night - All Day, by Night! by Night? - By Night, By Day, all Day by Day. By Night! (Joe Rogan Podcasts) by Night all Day, By Night? by Night All Day? by Day? By Day: All Day by Morning, by Day: By Day? By Night: By Night - By Day All Day All Day By Night By Night and Night? By Day - All Night? All Day - By Morning? by Evening? , All Day (By Night, by Evening, By Evening? By Evening, All-Day? (By Day) by Day/Night, By Any Day? (By Evening) By Morning, All By Day By Day... By Night... By Evening... By Anytime? By Any Given Day? ?
00:00:37.000In an engineering company in Manchester, England.
00:00:41.000And worked through the apprenticeship, received my journeyman papers, worked for a couple more years in England, and then I was recruited by an aerospace company in America and emigrated to America.
00:00:58.000And what did you do for this aerospace company?
00:01:01.000Well, I started out as a lathe turner.
00:01:11.000So I operated, you know, horizontal lathes, vertical lathes.
00:01:18.000In England, you know, they had what they call them vertical boring mills.
00:01:23.000And in the States, you have to learn a different language right there.
00:01:27.000The cultural differences between, right?
00:01:30.000So you pick up different terminologies for things.
00:01:34.000Like they call over here, they call it a vertical turret lathe.
00:01:38.000In England, they call it a vertical boring mill.
00:01:43.000And so, you're working with machines, and when did you come up with this theory about the pyramid?
00:01:53.000Well, actually, I had been in the States for a while.
00:01:56.000I came over in 1969, and in 1977, I picked up Peter Tompkins' book, Secrets of the Great Pyramid, and I started to examine that book.
00:02:11.000And one of the things that Tompkins, he asked a very significant question in that book, and he said, does the Great Pyramid enshrine a lost science?
00:02:21.000You know, is the Great Pyramid a product of that science?
00:04:24.000And to do that, you take measurements, you determine materials, how it was manufactured, you look for tool marks to see what processes may have been involved in it, whether there were dyes or Whether there's machining marks in areas.
00:04:57.000Let's say, okay, I've got to make something just like this.
00:05:00.000Right, but when you're making some—like, if you're looking at, say, some of the stone work that was done in the pyramid where there's—not in the pyramid, but in some of the quarries where you see these core drill holes.
00:06:24.000And so when you look at the core, the drill holes, the vases are another very fascinating and Real gigantic mystery as to how those were constructed, and we'll talk about those as well.
00:06:42.000But the core holes itself, we had a debate recently with Graham Hancock and Flint Dibble, and one of the things that Dibble had suggested was that they I've heard that theory about how they were done,
00:07:08.000and I know that there has been work done to prove That theory is the correct one.
00:07:17.000But central to explaining at the actual core, if you go back and you read Petrie, he described a spiral groove.
00:07:31.000Around a granite core and he said that it had like a pitch of a hundred thousands per revolution of the drill.
00:07:41.000And so that's what I was going on when I claimed, well, what kind of a process?
00:09:47.000So these drills that they used in Egypt were capable of drilling, with each revolution, 500 times more than modern diamond drills that were used by people who cut into granite.
00:10:02.000So it might have been operating a slower revolution, but when it's going through its full revolution, it's much more effective.
00:10:11.000That's what I concluded in the article.
00:10:15.000Sorry, but is this in multiple different drill holes, or is it one individual sample that they found that seems to operate at this depth per revolution?
00:10:27.000There have been inspections on several different cores.
00:10:32.000And have they all yielded similar results?
00:10:34.000And they have all revealed that the groove is a spiral.
00:10:42.000In other words, it's a continuous spiral around the core.
00:10:46.000The most recent examination of those cores It was in 2018 by two aerospace engineers, Eric Wilson and Josh Gere.
00:11:04.000And they asked the Petrie Museum in London permission to examine the cores in their collection.
00:12:35.000So they took photographs of it and they examined those photographs and they said, no, they're horizontal.
00:12:42.000Now there's a big difference when you talk about a horizontal groove and a spiral groove.
00:12:49.000And so I was like, okay, I suspend all assertions as far as the methods that I proposed for how it may have been done.
00:13:01.000I need to go and examine that item myself.
00:13:06.000And so I booked a flight to England and a friend of mine in Cambridge picked me up at the airport, Nick Annis, and we went to the Peach Museum and I examined the corps.
00:13:24.000The method I used was to just wrap a simple cotton thread around it.
00:13:31.000So you just followed the groove with the thread?
00:14:34.000Yes, I mean, they would say that I screwed it up, obviously.
00:14:38.000But the thing is, Joe, is that, you know, when you're conducting research, anybody, whether you're a scientist or just a, you know, Joe Blow in the tool room, and you say, okay, this is what I found, and these are the methods I used,
00:15:12.000Have they definitively proven one way or the other?
00:15:16.000I don't think there is a really high quality scan that would be necessary.
00:15:23.000I mean I've learned a little bit about scanning.
00:15:25.000It was just being introduced into manufacturing When I retired, just before I retired, we started to look into it and we bought this white light scanning system.
00:15:46.000The systems now are like light years ahead.
00:15:48.000And you would feed it through AI and it would tell you exactly.
00:15:51.000Well, yeah, I mean, you basically, you could slice it, dice it, examine it any way you wish, but you need to have qualified people to do it.
00:16:03.000Not anybody that's not qualified could examine that.
00:19:28.000And so you'd rotate it, rotate it, rotate it.
00:19:31.000And, you know, I set up a jig and a tube and just ground it, ground it, ground it, ground it, just so that I could see the results of that.
00:19:44.000But one thing, they say that copper was the only metal that was available to the ancient Egyptians...
00:19:50.000But when it came to knocking out the core from the hole, I tried copper and it wouldn't budge it, so I had to use a steel chisel.
00:20:03.000Is it possible that they use something else, like heat?
00:20:07.000You know, I'm actually leaning more towards that because of the difference in the finish.
00:20:14.000Like if they poured boiling water in it or something, would that loosen things?
00:20:19.000The difference in the finish, I'm sorry.
00:20:23.000Yeah, that I don't think has been discussed enough or recognized to be important.
00:20:31.000Enough is that when you use an abrasive like sand or like emery or anything to grind out a hole or do whatever, you leave a sanded finish naturally.
00:22:51.000So, if you couldn't do it with the copper, like, when you tried to do it with copper, how long did it take and how much results did you get?
00:24:30.000So there's the drill holes, which are just absolutely fascinating, and then this pottery we'll talk about before we get to the whole what you think the pyramid is.
00:24:41.000So the pottery, like these vases that you're seeing...
00:26:47.000Because even if you just slowly and meticulously, with the finest of craftsmanship, spun this to a perfect accuracy, just with, like, high-grit sandpaper, you know, slowly over time, made it perfectly round, and you got so good at it that you get it within how much of a human hair again?
00:27:52.000If you can't locate that drill, like the drill's real, the hole's real.
00:27:56.000If you can't locate an ancient Egyptian drill, so there's a bunch of pieces of pottery, and all of them have the same sort of similar measurement to them in terms of their perfection?
00:28:09.000Actually, some of them, there's one, I think it's more precise than that one.
00:29:00.000And you're checking the run out on a straight diameter.
00:29:04.000And, you know, you have it, okay, that's within 2000. You only have that one axis that is actually affecting the movement of that indicator that you're using.
00:29:18.000On this bowl, When you're on the side of it, on the crown, not right to the top, but just below it, you're at a place where the movement's in two axes.
00:29:34.000Two axes is affecting the indicator of reading.
00:29:39.000So any error that you have vertically or horizontally...
00:30:07.000And one of the vases that's incredibly impressive is there's one with a longer neck and a lip on the top and then it bowls out of the bottom.
00:30:16.000And it's again all carved out of granite somehow.
00:30:34.000Yeah, we seem to be stuck in a time warp where we're trying to come to terms with how the pyramids were built, with how all these artifacts were built.
00:31:08.000We've got, on one side, you have practical engineers, practical scientists.
00:31:15.000And they want to measure everything exactly exactly.
00:31:24.000And regardless of what current theories prescribe, how they were made, they want to explore other methods.
00:31:39.000However, on the other side, on the side of archaeologists or Egyptologists, they believe that if you're examining an ancient artifact and you're a modern engineer,
00:31:57.000that you have to work under the guidance of an archaeologist or an Egyptologist.
00:32:05.000Otherwise, your work would not be recognized.
00:32:32.000So they wouldn't be able to understand what's required to do that.
00:32:37.000Now, the conventional explanation being some sort of copper and sand, if that's the conventional explanation, there's no evidence of any copper drills, correct?
00:32:51.000If you go to the Cairo Museum, they have a—I think there's a tube that they describe—a small tube that they describe as a— But nothing that can carve those large holes out of ground.
00:33:05.000Yeah, they're just going on the assumption that only copper existed during that period, and so that was the metal that was available to them, that was the metal that they used.
00:33:15.000The tubes that they have in the museum, are these tubes, authentic tubes that were used on the site for something?
00:33:23.000I would have to go back and refresh my memory on that because it was quite a while before I looked at it.
00:33:30.000But the point is like they don't, you know, like they have a replica of an ancient boat.
00:33:34.000They know they have boats, they know what the boats looked like.
00:33:39.000So whether it's something exotic that we didn't know that they had capability to create or whether it's what they think it is, neither one of those exist.
00:33:56.000And so we're stuck in a bit of a time walk, and we're stuck that it's between two disciplines.
00:34:03.000So what is the reluctance of the archaeologists to accept the findings of the engineers if the goal is the truth?
00:34:11.000So if the goal is to figure out, instead of just having assumptions that you're going to cling to as dogma as to what was done, Wouldn't the goal be, let's find out what the truth is, what's capable of doing this?
00:34:24.000If they talk to enough engineers, and especially enough people that actually carve into granite, then you would get an understanding of what we know today.
00:34:32.000This is the only thing that can do this.
00:34:45.000So the reluctance is they don't believe that the Egyptians had any more advanced technology than what we assume they had, which is pulleys and ropes and copper tools and sand and the like.
00:35:57.000If they come down on my side, and who has the most to lose?
00:36:00.000And obviously, those who have the most to lose are the Western institutions who have written the history of the world, have written the history of Egypt.
00:36:10.000And so I decided, well, I have to appeal to Egyptian engineers.
00:36:14.000And so in my second book, Lost Technologies of Ancient Egypt, I put out a challenge to modern Egyptian engineers to go out and check the artifacts for themselves.
00:36:34.000One man, one engineer, I don't know how many other engineers were involved, but also I'm talking to Egyptology tour guides, and the message I'm getting is that the Pyramid of Tomb theory is pretty much on the way out.
00:36:56.000The young people are being energized and looking at their artifacts in a different way.
00:37:04.000So the engineer that took up the challenge is called Ahmed Adly.
00:37:24.000He presented the Giza power plant theory to a physicist at Cairo University.
00:37:32.000And it's like, wow, times are changing.
00:37:38.000The Egyptian youth are taking hold of the reins, and they're excited about their future.
00:37:46.000You know, just recently, there was like a STEM class.
00:37:54.000It was put on by NARMA, American University.
00:38:00.000It was held at the Grand Egyptian Museum and there were over 200 students that took place and the professors and teachers of these students got Ahmed Adli involved to design experiments to talk about pyramids as energy sources,
00:38:27.000talk about The statues, symmetry, design projects that the kids could do.
00:38:35.000And even to the point of taking a slab of copper and trying to cut a brick using the old method just so that they could get a hands-on feel for what it was like.
00:38:56.000It's all very well to sit at home in your armchair and come up with a theory.
00:39:01.000But, you know, if you don't go out and test it, then, you know, are you just going to buy it?
00:41:19.000Began in the 12th century B.C. in India, Anatolia, or the Caucasus.
00:41:24.000Iron use in smelting and forging for tools appeared in sub-Saharan Africa by 1200 B.C. So it could be that these pharaohs, the one that had the iron dagger made out of a meteorite, maybe that was later.
00:43:39.000So it's just pure speculation as to what they use for the core.
00:43:44.000What is the conventional thought as to how they made these vases?
00:43:48.000I mean, there are demonstrations of crafting ancient vases.
00:43:58.000But I think this recent research and the discovery of the precision of them, which had always been a question mark until just recently.
00:44:10.000People would go through the Cairo Museum or any museum in the world and they'd see these beautiful, finely crafted artifacts made out of igneous rock and they looked extraordinarily precise.
00:44:30.000I mean, I look at them and I was like, wow, I'd like to get one of those in my shop and just check it out, you know, quality inspection.
00:44:39.000And so for years, that was a, for me, it was like always a question.
00:44:44.000I'd love to know how precise those vases are.
00:44:49.000And then in 2018, the owner of that original vase, Adam Young, he came on the tour and he befriended my son Alex.
00:45:04.000And they were talking about the vases, and Alex was a quality inspector, quality engineer, to the company that I worked at.
00:45:15.000Since he worked at another company in Indianapolis, now I think he's working in the metrology lab at Rolls-Royce in Indianapolis.
00:45:27.000And so he's like, well, we should scan them, or do an inspection.
00:45:34.000So, Adam brought his vase down to Indianapolis to where Alex was working, and he got permission from the managers at the shop to do an inspection of them.
00:45:45.000And it seemed like, you know, you talk to people, shop people, right?
00:45:49.000People who are actually out there every day making quality parts.
00:46:06.000And I told him, you know, I said, you know, you're carrying in your hand an artifact that is more precise than some of the parts that were installed in the engine that was on the plane that you flew in.
00:47:22.000Any part that you have, whether it's something for your car, say a crankshaft or something like that, take a crankshaft, it's got very precise features on it,
00:47:41.000and then there are features that are not so precise.
00:48:07.000But now you have, you know, people who are looking at some of these artifacts, like the boxes in the Serapium, and they're finding imprecise areas of the boxes.
00:48:26.000The photograph of me inside one of those boxes with a toolmaker's precision square, I mean, there's nothing simpler, right?
00:48:38.000You take a square, you stick it out, and you check to see if it's square.
00:48:47.000And now you've got guys going around on the outside of the box, And finding inaccuracies, some areas inside boxes that have inaccuracies, and now they're calling me a liar.
00:49:01.000They say that I faked and fudged measurements.
00:49:05.000It's like, I don't know, the cancel culture they want to get away from.
00:50:12.000So when it comes to precision, like the precision of the faces, for instance, and some of the sculptures, what is the conventional explanation for how precise they are?
00:50:25.000Because these are massive faces that were supposedly carved by hand, but the accuracy on either side of the face is so phenomenal.
00:50:47.000But, I mean, as far as the methods that I used, which is like 2D photography and then comparing features in the computer for symmetry, you know,
00:51:02.000and some geometric features, nobody had done that before.
00:51:09.000And so I come along, you know, I say, wow, this is...
00:51:14.000The first time I went to Egypt, and I was at Saqqara, and I was looking down the length of the statue of Ramses at the Open Air Museum there, and I said, well, the nostrils are extraordinarily symmetrical.
00:54:21.000I don't know anybody who is a precision manufacturer who would accept such an explanation.
00:54:30.000And really, at the end of the day, you have to say, okay, well, show me and we'll match, you know, show me and we'll check yours and compare it to the original.
00:54:45.000That's the only way to solve the problem.
00:54:48.000And so this is just one example of one of the mind-blowing mysteries involved in this culture, that they had some kind of capability of not just doing that, and not just making the vases,
00:55:03.000but also making the pyramids themselves, which are beyond comprehension.
00:55:09.000I mean, you know, the thing is, is that you have, I don't think, not all engineers think alike, right?
00:55:16.000But I've never been with an engineer who has examined this subject and been to Egypt that is not absolutely blown away by what they're seeing and are saying,
00:56:14.000So you have a very fascinating hypothesis as to what the pyramid, or theory, as to what the pyramid actually was.
00:56:23.000And it's based on where the supposed king's chamber is, where those passages go through into it, and what do you think that thing was?
00:56:38.000Well, my first book pretty much describes what I thought it was in 1998, which was a power plant.
00:56:45.000The book is then titled The Giza Power Plant.
00:56:49.000My second book has evolved, and I describe it as an electron harvester.
00:56:57.000So, you know, it's kind of like—you could describe it as both, but today, when you do—or, you know, people— In any decade, they think of a power plant and then they see these huge chimneys with,
00:57:54.000An electron harvester, you could say that, you know, say a wind, you have a windmill, you have a generator inside it, and then you're collecting electrons off the commutator in a generator.
00:58:10.000And that's where the electricity comes from.
00:59:10.000But I do have a different terminology for them as they function.
00:59:16.000Now, the initial surface of the Great Pyramid is covered in smooth limestone, right?
00:59:23.000So it's polished and shiny, and apparently it would collect insane amounts of light.
00:59:30.000Well, the outer surface of the Great Pyramid mostly is missing, but it has been described as, if it was finished, and depending on the polish that it received, yeah, it could reflect a lot of light.
00:59:49.000Do you think that that had something to do with the design of this power plant?
00:59:54.000I don't think there's any part of that pyramid that did not serve a practical function.
01:00:03.000Okay, so this is the image that you have here, and what this image shows us is the King's Chamber, the various shafts, the southern shaft, the northern shaft, and these shafts have been described as portals to stars because people have looked up through there,
01:00:19.000and you go through the shaft, you see stars, but what you're saying is something entirely different.
01:00:24.000What do you think these shafts were for?
01:00:27.000Well, I think they serve two different purposes.
01:00:32.000Actually, four different purposes, if you will.
01:00:35.000Because in the theory that I propose, which is, I don't know, it's a speculation, the whole process is kind of like a heuristic Process where you're grabbing information,
01:01:18.000For the southern shaft and the northern shaft of the Queen's Chamber, that was a huge mystery to me.
01:01:26.000And I tried to fit it into what were they doing.
01:01:35.000I mean, if you look at the details, the facts of their design and what the ancient Egyptians were doing, why they designed them that way, you have...
01:01:44.000Two conduits coming into a chamber, but they're not connected to the chamber.
01:01:50.000And we didn't even know they existed until 1872 for Wayman Dixon.
01:01:58.000Can you show me that image again, please?
01:02:01.000So they're coming into the chamber, but they don't enter into the chamber, so they stop.
01:02:06.000Their original design had the shafts ending five inches before coming into the chamber.
01:02:20.000So you had like five inches of limestone that was left in the block.
01:03:58.000I think there's a lot there right now.
01:04:01.000And it's been investigated now, but there's things that have been revealed through scanning, like Muography, the Scan Pyramid Project, and they found that large void above the Grand Gallery.
01:04:18.000Which is larger than the King's Chamber, right?
01:04:22.000It's longer than the King's Chamber, yeah.
01:04:25.000And so that's not even represented here on this?
01:04:27.000It's about the size of the cabin on a Boeing 707. Wow.
01:04:33.000So if these shafts came through and then they met limestone at the end, what do you think was going on?
01:04:43.000In order to answer that question, I had to look at the rest of the pyramid, okay?
01:06:35.000Because, you know, I was looking for answers, suggestions, brainstorming, anything, right?
01:06:41.000And he's like, so these shafts right here, and he looks at it, and he was into electronics, electronic engineering, and he's like, hmm, they look like waveguides to me.
01:08:35.000They had—we are bombarded with microwaves every day.
01:08:41.000I mean, it's the signal from, they say, the Big Bang.
01:08:45.000And, you know, it comes from atomic hydrogen out in the universe, in outer space.
01:08:53.000So we're being bombarded, and you believe that these passages were collecting this— Yeah, so anyway, so then you say, okay, if we build a device and we want to energize hydrogen, we bring it to a higher energy state,
01:09:11.000and just like, you know, in a laser, where you have microwave amplification through stimulated emission, right?
01:09:23.000So if we want to collect energy that is in a gaseous medium, say that it's hydrogen medium, and the electrons in the hydrogen are pumped up to a higher energy state and we want to collect the energy in that, Introduce a microwave signal,
01:09:41.000direct it through that gas, and stimulate the emission of the energy, collect that energy, and shoot it up the sun's shaft.
01:09:50.000And so that was like, okay, that might work.
01:10:39.000So they add some sort of chemicals to it.
01:10:42.000And what function does the limestone have at the end that keeps it from going into the King's Chamber, keeps it blocked off?
01:10:49.000Well, to answer that question, I was having a chat with a A civil engineer who was putting in a septic system for me with a leach field, and he was doing a percolation test,
01:11:38.000And he said, well, if your limestone is permeable and basically you follow the same steps that you would as if you were digging into earth, you know, Just dirt.
01:11:55.000You dig a hole, you cut a hole in the limestone, and you determine how quickly the water would disperse or would actually seep out.
01:12:38.000How would you determine the flow rate of a column of water, right, going through limestone?
01:12:47.000And he said, well, that would depend on the head pressure, how much pressure, what weight is pushing against the limestone, right?
01:12:59.000And I go, uh-huh, okay, that's interesting.
01:13:03.000So then I go back to the drawing boards, I go back to my Blueprints of the Great Pyramid, and I'm looking at the The southern northern shaft of the Queen's Chamber, and I see that both of these shafts go up to an area that nobody knows where it goes.
01:13:26.000At that time, when I was doing research, nobody knew where they ended.
01:13:37.000If they are feeding a chemical, they would need to be assured that they can maintain a particular head pressure.
01:13:50.000That would be calculated, the weight of the column.
01:13:54.000And essentially, as these are on an angle, you know, your calculations may get a little more complicated, but you would figure it out, or you could do it by trial and error.
01:14:11.000But not all the evidence was in to really kind of solidify that theory, right?
01:14:20.000It's like, okay, I've got this much data.
01:14:30.000And then in 1993, A German engineer, Rudolf Gantenbrink, he was invited to Egypt and he was working under the German the German mission in Cairo.
01:14:52.000They wanted him to actually examine, get a robot, examine all those shafts, both the king's chamber and the queen's chamber.
01:15:06.000Actually, no, mostly the King's Chamber.
01:15:08.000They wanted to ventilate the pyramid, and so they wanted to make sure that the shafts were clear and that when they installed their fans that there wouldn't be any obstruction.
01:15:21.000And so he built a robot to go through these, clean the shafts out, and then install fans in the King's Chamber.
01:15:31.000But it had always been a mystery as far as the Queen's Chamber shafts.
01:16:17.000And there was a mechanism for the upper track that caused it to grip the ceiling and it was able to climb up the shaft.
01:16:27.000And they were looking for where it ended.
01:16:32.000And they found where it ended, after a few kind of obstacles, one being what he called a tank trap, which was like a depression in the floor of the shaft,
01:16:54.000I don't think the full truth of why that is there has been figured out yet or explained, but they're working on it.
01:17:04.000And so his robot got so far up the shaft and they discovered that there was a block at the end of the shaft and through the block are two metal fittings.
01:17:32.000And how far is it from the outside edge of the pyramid?
01:17:37.000Well, you do ask some awkward questions.
01:17:40.000I don't have that information in front of me.
01:17:42.000But I would say that if you are wanting to reach the end of where that southern shaft is, the shortest route that you could take would be through a horizontal passage that goes directly out to the outer surface of the Great Pyramid.
01:19:36.000So the Queen's Chamber shaft, what is the difference and why do you think that there was chemicals poured in that and not into the King's Chamber?
01:19:43.000Because the Queen's Chamber was a reaction chamber, so that's where the hydrogen was produced.
01:19:52.000The hydrogen filled the interior spaces of the Great Pyramid, which included the King's Chamber.
01:20:01.000And then through the action, different actions, whether it be the Freund effect, which we can talk about, and that's the release of electrons from the lithosphere, or the accumulation of vibration,
01:20:18.000or the collection of vibration, and how it was centered or focused into the King's Chamber, it created a highly energized atmosphere.
01:20:33.000So, have they found access to the northern and southern shafts in the Queen's Chamber?
01:21:16.000And it kind of wraps around or is, you know, close to the northern shaft.
01:21:25.000That's an interesting place for it to be too, which prompted my research associate, Eric Wilson, who's an aerospace engineer, to suggest that that actually feature, if it is what he thinks it is,
01:21:42.000would complete my theory because it would serve as a A preamp for the microwave.
01:21:51.000He said that was the thing that was missing in my theory was that there was no preamp.
01:21:58.000So is there an image that we can look at that shows where this new chamber, the newly discovered, I should say, chamber?
01:23:50.000When the fluid level dropped, it would open the circuit and signal the need for more chemicals to be pumped in, in order to maintain the head pressure, in order to make sure that there is an accurate supply of that chemical.
01:24:08.000And so that chemical would pool up inside of the Queen's Chamber?
01:24:28.000I suspect that it had something to do with It may have been an evaporation tower or something like that where the chemicals mixed and wicked up through some materials.
01:26:17.000You have the Grand Gallery, the Ascending Passage, the Descending Passage, all of these things are there for a reason.
01:26:26.000And so the subterranean chamber, how do you think that worked?
01:26:30.000I would speculate that, and actually if you read Tesla and some of his writings, he suggests that with very little energy you could build a device that imparts energy or thrusts into a structure.
01:26:54.000And if it is in harmony or the exact frequency with that structure, it could bring the structure down just by an accumulation of energy, of vibration.
01:27:10.000And if you kept pounding it and pounding it and pounding it, eventually it would all come down.
01:27:16.000I mean, that's why they instructed soldiers when they're on the march to break step, when they cross a bridge, because their footsteps might cause the bridge to oscillate and destroy.
01:27:35.000It's a very destructive force, this frequency.
01:27:45.000So what kind of device in the subterranean chamber would do that?
01:27:51.000He built a device that delivered thrusts and powers.
01:27:56.000It was an electromagnetic earthquake machine, it's called, right?
01:28:01.000You could do an electromechanical, you could do an electrohydraulic, or, you know, just anything.
01:28:08.000But you have to be able to time the action.
01:28:14.000And so, okay, you think of it like you've got a device, you've got a cylinder, you've got a shaft coming out of it, and you've got a hammer or you've got a copper pad or whatever at the end of it, and you design it so that that shaft is going to push out At a particular frequency.
01:28:52.000You might hit one with a fist and don't think it would resonate at all, but...
01:28:57.000If you go, the first trike may impart enough energy to move something, maybe a couple of angstroms, right?
01:29:08.000And so it's like very, very minute movement.
01:29:12.000The next one will move it a little more.
01:29:15.000Then you just keep pounding it, just keep pounding it.
01:29:18.000And as you pound it, the oscillations become bigger, the amplitude becomes bigger, and if you keep doing it, You can bring the whole thing down.
01:29:30.000So the key is to do it at a rate that is able to utilize the hydrogen?
01:29:38.000Well, at this point, hydrogen has nothing to do with it.
01:29:41.000I mean, this is just a totally separate subsystem.
01:29:45.000It doesn't care if there's hydrogen in the pyramid.
01:29:48.000But this subsystem exists to vibrate the king's pyramid.
01:29:52.000Just to connect the pyramid with the earth.
01:30:39.000What happens with the vibration of the pyramid through this thing that's connected to the earth and the subterranean chamber constantly hitting, boom, boom, boom, vibrating.
01:30:50.000The hydrogen flows into the great chamber, the king's chamber, or the king's chamber is vibrating, and then you have these shafts that come from the outside of the king's chamber into it.
01:31:31.000So Friedemann Freund did research on earthquake lights and his objective was to try to determine if we could detect or if we could have an early warning system for earthquakes.
01:31:50.000And he was using NASA satellites to survey the Earth and to observe for when earthquake lights show up.
01:32:06.000His theory, it's not really a theory, it's a scientific fact, is that in the minerals in igneous rock, you have these positive charge carriers that when they are stressed,
01:32:27.000And the positive charge carriers, they call them holes, He describes it as a new physics, but it's kind of related to semiconductor physics, which is a little above my head.
01:32:38.000But still, he's talking about releasing electrons from deep within the Earth.
01:32:45.000And those electrons, when they're stimulated to move, they move very, very quickly through the pyramid.
01:33:00.000So, you have Tesla on one side, and he's saying that if you could put a, like an earthquake machine and just drive, you know, a frequency into the planet, you might be able to release the stresses in the Earth's crust.
01:33:22.000And also reduce the possibility of an earthquake.
01:33:27.000I'm not saying eliminate it entirely, but at least...
01:33:35.000Yeah, you would release some pressure.
01:33:37.000And so, you know, with that, it becomes, you put in these little bits of disparate information together and you combine them and you say, oh, maybe there is something here.
01:33:51.000I think, you know, the biggest discovery, which is not talked about very much, It's Friedemann Freund's discovery of the physics behind earthquake lights.
01:34:11.000And he actually experimented in his lab.
01:35:31.000Okay, so you've got the mechanical energy of this thing that's striking.
01:35:34.000You have the passages that are filled with chemicals that's causing the accumulation of hydrogen.
01:35:40.000The hydrogen is making its way into the king's chamber.
01:35:43.000And then what is the function of these passageways that go into the king's chamber from the outside?
01:35:49.000Well, the northern shaft carries a microwave signal.
01:35:52.000That signal passes through an amplifier, and then the signal enters into the chamber and collects the energy that has been Accumulating in that space.
01:37:41.000So, this King's Chamber, when it has the hydrogen in it, you have the electrons, you have the vibration of the thing, you have the microwaves coming in.
01:39:11.000And so since then, we got the CAD drawings of Rudolf Gantenbrink when he did an examination.
01:39:22.000And he did a great, great job measuring everything, every angle, distance, all the way to the outside.
01:39:30.000And so this is taken from his CAD drawing, and I just kind of, you know, made it a little more striking, clear, or people could understand the complexity of that shaft.
01:39:47.000And also to point out some of the details that are...
01:40:43.000But the other thing is, and this information, of course, is common.
01:40:49.000I mean, I've talked to people who worked on waveguides.
01:40:53.000Eric Wilson is very familiar with them.
01:40:56.000And he did a study of Gantenbrink's drawings, and he said, yeah, this, this, this.
01:41:03.000And he's pointing out Different unusual features in the shaft that seem to appear in the design of modern waveguides because you have changes in dimension, you have these steps,
01:41:19.000there is like a bump in an area, and it's all to kind of massage, manipulate the beam as it comes into the pyramid.
01:41:30.000But then when it comes to entering into the king's chamber, it goes through four bends.
01:41:40.000He said that's to be able to correct the beam so that when it does enter the pyramid, it is coherent and it goes in straight.
01:43:29.000If you take the level where the shaft enters the King's Chamber and you take it straight past the Grand Gallery, you're looking at dimension E,
01:44:37.000So, the way it's set up here, especially when you're looking at it from this, it really does kind of make sense that this is a passageway for gases and energy.
01:44:51.000The way I'm looking, I mean, it looks like, if you're looking at it like this, it looks like a system.
01:46:58.000And so, the southern shaft and the northern shaft have different functions.
01:47:05.000And you believe that the northern shaft is collecting the microwave energy?
01:47:10.000It is channeling the microwave energy.
01:47:13.000Yeah, I mean, they would have some system on the outside to collect them.
01:47:16.000I mean, they may have a very large area actually collecting microwaves and feeding it to a reflector that is directed down the northern shaft.
01:47:28.000I mean, you know that there are eight sides to the pyramid, right?
01:47:42.000I don't know where that reflector would have been positioned, but they could have been reflecting microwaves off the surface of the Great Pyramid to a reflector at a distance away, and that reflector...
01:48:02.000So either way, you believe that the northern shaft was somehow or another collecting microwave energy, and the southern shaft, what would they do with that energy?
01:48:45.000I can only imagine if they can dream up how to build this system, how they machined those precision vases, how they built the boxes in the Serapium,
01:49:00.000how they created the statues, and knowing that there is so much missing from that culture.
01:49:26.000So you're saying that you used the pyramid to create energy, and with that energy, you powered your power tools to build the Great Pyramid.
01:50:31.000So this gives us an understanding of what it would look like originally.
01:50:36.000There was a gold cap on the top, smooth limestone on the sides.
01:50:41.000What do you think the function of that gold cap was?
01:50:43.000Because gold is used in electricity, in electronic components.
01:50:48.000It's a great conductor of electricity.
01:50:49.000Well, this is where you combine the Tesla's technology and also Freund's laboratory experiments.
01:51:03.000And in the laboratory, what Freund did is he got a granite slab A few feet long.
01:51:17.000And he put it in a hydraulic press in order to test his theory that if, you know, igneous rock is put under pressure, it releases electrons.
01:51:58.000So there has to be some kind of a connection.
01:52:01.000So you've got electrons moving, you've got positive charge carriers shooting through the granite, and then they're handshaking at the end with the negative electrons.
01:52:14.000Everybody does a happy dance and fires up their microwaves.
01:54:49.000You know, I mean, and that is actually a key question because, you know, if you're an examiner or if you are pleading something or somebody is...
01:55:32.000And if it is a machine, how did the machine operate?
01:55:37.000So that's basically what my state of mind was, and the evidence that I was looking at was evidence of a level of sophistication and a structure that actually demonstrated the highest Or any culture.
01:56:49.000Not only that, it's like, you know, if you're going to replicate...
01:56:54.000I was asked that question when I was in Egypt in 2021. And I was with Hamada Anwar and Dr. Haney Hillel, who used to be the Minister of Science and Higher Education.
01:57:11.000Both extremely, extremely good guys, and they are both on the Scam Pyramid mission team.
01:57:18.000So I had a meeting with them, and I gave my book to Dr. Halal, and Hamada already had one.
01:57:31.000I gave my book to Haney Halal, and I described it briefly.
01:57:37.000And he asked me a question I never thought I would hear in Egypt.
01:57:41.000And he says, well, could the Great Pyramid be restored and function as you envisioned that it did?
01:57:55.000And I was like, I'd pondered that question before, and I thought, I can't see that happening.
01:58:03.000You know, I mean, if you were going to, you know, replicate it or create another one, I would do another one, you know, because of the political climate.
02:01:50.000So if they did that, let's just imagine a world where people say, hey, we're going to do this, but we could always reverse it.
02:01:59.000We're not going to do any permanent damage to the pyramid, but it's possible to restore it to the exact state and find out if this theory is correct.
02:02:52.000Let's imagine we enter into a world where people say, you know what, it's better if we know, and there's only one way to know, and it's possible to do.
02:03:00.000So let's cover that thing the way it was done before.
02:03:25.000Could it be more possible today through use of AI? You would need, well...
02:03:31.000Whoever is in control of the AI who's driving...
02:03:35.000Right, but let's look at best case scenario.
02:03:37.000Let's pretend there's some objective scientists that are not ideologically driven at all and they're in control of this AI and they utilize it the exact way we would like it to be utilized.
02:03:46.000What I would love is for some PhD student to take on as a dissertation project the Acoustic modeling of the interior of the Great Pyramid.
02:04:04.000Get all the dimensions, scan everything, find out all the dimensions, what they are, and then you start to simulate the behavior of the movement of sound within that space.
02:04:19.000I mean, we're using human instruments.
02:04:25.000To detect resonance and report on the vibrations and how they feel when they hear it.
02:04:36.000There's a lot of magical experiences that are happening.
02:04:44.000But the magic, I mean, if you've ever read Arthur C. Clarke, it's kind of like sufficiently advanced technology is first seen as magic, right?
02:04:58.000So if you have an alien race and they have sufficiently advanced technology, you would look at it as magic.
02:05:15.000People wouldn't know what to do with them.
02:05:17.000And if this culture had something that's not where we are, but 500 years more advanced than us, which is why they were able to create something like that.
02:05:37.000As an example, as an example of what is possible physically, because if you consider that, you know, those UAPs can descend from 80,000 feet to sea level in a few seconds,
02:05:56.000the G-forces that they would pull on a 90-degree turn would be like 1,000 Gs.
02:06:04.000It would destroy any of our craft and the people inside it.
02:06:08.000If it was even possible to make such a turn, which it's not.
02:07:39.000And say, okay, where are you getting your power from?
02:07:42.000I don't see any train cars carrying tons of coal and belching chimneys out in the distance, right?
02:07:52.000Well, if there's a time machine, if there was ever a time machine, I've always said if I could go back to one place, I'd go back to Africa when they were doing that.
02:08:20.000And if you're correct, if they really did have some sort of a machine that makes electricity that to this day, I mean, if you want renewable electricity, there you go, kids.
02:08:46.000I'm digging through an article right now of some audio engineers that got access to the Great Pyramid.
02:08:51.000Like they took in a bunch of high-powered speakers and whatnot.
02:08:54.000Very first thing this guy recognized here, he says he noticed that there's a very specific precise frequency when the wind blows across some of the air shafts.
02:09:06.000Yeah, and that appears in the, I think, Tom Danley, who was a NASA engineer, and he was on a team and did acoustic testings inside the Great Pyramid.
02:09:23.000He measured the frequencies in the King's Chamber and reported that even with all his equipment turned off, the King's Chamber was still vibrating.
02:10:05.000It's also found in human DNA, I believe, yeah.
02:10:11.000And there was a Dr. David Diemer who actually mapped the frequencies of DNA. As an engineer, I will note 16 hertz is just below the human threshold of hearing.
02:10:23.000The best you can hear is 20. Interesting.
02:11:48.000You would need, yeah, I mean, just a very, very subtle laser, which, you know, is like micro heat, expand the strings, and you would get, they would vibrate.
02:12:57.000There's so many questions and so many places to take it to.
02:13:02.000The real question is like, how did they do it?
02:13:06.000Where did they learn all this stuff from?
02:13:08.000And did they implement this somewhere else?
02:13:11.000Is this the only power plant they ever created?
02:13:14.000The other pyramids, do they have similar function?
02:13:19.000I think that fundamentally, perhaps the science of tapping into or harvesting electrons through stimulating movement in the lithosphere was probably known.
02:13:38.000And that knowledge was advanced and developed.
02:13:44.000But if you have what this design, what you believe, the Great Pyramid, how it was used as a power plant, what do you think is going on with the other two pyramids that are near it?
02:13:52.000Same thing, except they have different interior designs.
02:14:27.000Okay, so you design a project, you propose a project, you gather the resources to complete the project, you describe it to, you know, your investors.
02:14:43.000I mean, ultimately it's about follow the money.
02:14:48.000How much is it going to cost and what's the return on investment?
02:14:51.000And so you have, okay, I want to build a great pyramid, and we're going to have all this, you know, we're going to have all this energy, and I'll build another few pyramids around it, and they'll just be tourist attractions?
02:15:07.000No, I mean, if you've got the whole plateau and the lithosphere beneath it, I mean, Freund said that the lithosphere is actually a giant...
02:17:36.000Yeah, I mean, it's the electrons coming from the earth and ionizing the air.
02:17:40.000It says, according to Judith Brewesque, the Marfa Lights of West Texas have been called many names over the years, such as Ghost Lights, Weird Lights, Strange Lights, Car Lights, Mystery Lights, or Chianti Lights.
02:17:53.000My favorite place from which to view the lights is a widened shoulder on Highway 90, about nine miles east of Marfa.
02:18:01.000Are most often reported at distant spots of brightness distinguishable from branch lights and automotive headlights on 67. So primarily distinguished by their aberrant movements.
02:18:12.000So these things just sort of fly around.
02:18:16.000Mm-hmm The first historical record of the Marfa Lights was 1883 when a young cowhand Robert Reed Ellison saw a flickering light while he was driving cattle through the Paisano Pass and wondered if it was a campfire of the Apache.
02:18:30.000Other settlers told him they often saw the lights, but when they investigated they found no ashes or evidence of a campsite.
02:18:38.000So what is happening again with these lights?
02:18:41.000It's electrons going through the earth?
02:18:43.000If you consider Freund's theory and the Freund effect, it's the release of positive charge carriers from the lithosphere shooting up to the surface and ionizing the air.
02:19:14.000Roy doesn't support that idea, I don't think.
02:19:17.000But it would sort of support this theory that if you could find places where that is happening naturally, like Marfa, and you established the pyramid there.
02:19:26.000You had one other thing that you just said to me when we took a break, that there was some evidence that you knew about this Dibble-Hancock debate that had come to light?
02:20:11.000And so I talked to him and he sent me several papers.
02:20:20.000Where other studies have been done and that show the same kind of markers that you see in that period of time in the paper that he presented on the podcast.
02:20:40.000So, you know, everybody should have a chance to fix their mistakes, right?
02:20:49.000They are, could you pull them up, Jamie, and we could just go through them.
02:20:58.000Okay, so what is wrong, so what you're saying is that, what he was saying is that the evidence of industrialization only occurs after a specific time in the core samples.
02:21:09.000Right, that they weren't, there's no evidence of them in the Ice Age.
02:21:18.000I mean, this is out of my wheelhouse, so I'm not an expert witness on it.
02:21:24.000But this gentleman posted this in response.
02:21:27.000I'm just saying that if there is, you know, another body of evidence or other papers, That have been conducted, where research has been conducted, that go further back into the past,
02:21:42.000in the period of time that Nibble's paper deals with, then they should be introduced into the record.
02:23:17.000So, the title of this is, for anybody who wants to find it, is Lead Pollution Recorded in Greenland Ice Indicates European Emissions Track Plagues, Wars, and Imperial Expansion During Antiquity.
02:25:27.000What Graham was saying might actually have some weight to it, that there was a highly advanced civilization before the Ice Age and that it went away.
02:25:37.000And then when you see lead in the future, you're just seeing sort of a re-understanding of this process.
02:25:46.000And it doesn't have to be a really highly advanced civilization like ours.
02:25:51.000It just means that there is industrial activity, whatever that shape or form that takes.
02:25:57.000Well, the real fascinating thing is if the Egyptians had figured out how to generate power without any damage to the environment, which is really wild.
02:26:09.000But if they figured that out with that Great Pyramid, if that process is how they generated electricity, I mean, that's about as green as you're ever going to get.
02:29:51.000So aerospace manufacturing engineers know all about how cones are made and they know how to measure them and they know how to transmit geometric data to the customer.
02:30:46.000A corruption of the evidence right away.
02:30:52.000What happens with a 2D photograph taking a 3D object?
02:31:00.000You can go through these series of cones that are made.
02:31:04.000This is a A cone that has horizontal lines around it, right?
02:31:10.000And you can see that they're horizontal.
02:31:15.000So you can assume, okay, I took a 2D photograph of this, okay?
02:31:22.000I took a 2D photograph of that, and then I brought it into my computer, but there are some things that happen to the arc length on the original.
02:31:43.000If you take a 2D photograph, You are using the cord length as the arc length.
02:33:47.000If you read a scientific paper or if you are working on a scientific project, if you're in school or if you're anywhere, and so you prepare your report, you publish your report, you describe the methods that you use and the tools that you use,
02:34:08.000how you did it, and then you publish your results.
02:35:02.000But then you have a college professor who scoops up all that research and they become cited sources in their work.
02:35:11.000Well, he probably was just respecting their work and thinking that your work is one of those alternative guys that's not a part of the system, not a part of the academic system.
02:35:35.000I'm not saying that what he said is his own invention.
02:35:45.000I'm just saying that he was certainly well-schooled and he had the answers to some of these mysteries, right?
02:35:52.000And he had been given information and pretty much he Reeled it out when the question was raised.
02:36:03.000The other thing that I thought of after the fact, and we actually kind of covered it, but I never connected the dots, was that one of the things that we were talking about when we were talking about Gobekli Tepe.
02:36:15.000Gobekli Tepe was created by these people that didn't need agriculture because the place they lived was so bountiful.
02:36:23.000But what if they just didn't What if agriculture to them wasn't plants?
02:36:29.000What if agriculture was animal agriculture and they fed their animals with wild plants?
02:36:34.000If the wild plants were in such abundance that they could just go out and chop down the wild plants and use them to feed their animals, that's still agriculture.
02:37:20.000But also, are we only thinking of agriculture as plant agriculture?
02:37:23.000And do we have to grow plants in an agricultural setting to feed animals?
02:37:29.000Well, doesn't that entirely depend on how we're raising these animals?
02:37:34.000Because if these animals are free-ranging and you have an enormous area, then no.
02:37:40.000Then you could harvest them out free-ranging.
02:37:45.000You could have agriculture in terms of animals.
02:37:49.000And you could have these animals that you're farming.
02:37:53.000You're just farming them with wild plants.
02:37:55.000And if you could do that for Gobekli Tepe, which is what they're saying, at least they're saying that either they just hunted all the animals that were around there.
02:38:04.000There were so many animals around them, they could hunt them very easily to feed everybody, so they'd have enough resources to build this thing.
02:38:10.000Or maybe they had some kind of agriculture in terms of animal agriculture, but just hadn't planted things.
02:38:58.000And so many mysteries and so many questions.
02:39:00.000And I just want to thank you for putting in so much time and having so much energy of your life dedicated to trying to figure this thing out.