The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2170 - Max Lugavere

00:00:12.000 What's up, Max?

00:00:13.000 How are you?

00:00:13.000 Good to see you.

00:00:14.000 I know.

00:00:14.000 What's cracking?

00:00:16.000 Oh, man.

00:00:17.000 Just, first of all, honored to be here.

00:00:19.000 Thank you.

00:00:19.000 Love you and your work.

00:00:21.000 And yeah, I mean, just a national treasure.

00:00:25.000 That's very nice of you.

00:00:26.000 Go out on a limb and say it.

00:00:27.000 But no, I'm super, super excited because I've been working on this documentary for the last 10 years of my life.

00:00:33.000 And it's finally out today, which I'm super pumped for.

00:00:37.000 It's called Little Empty Boxes.

00:00:38.000 And we talked about it the last time I was here.

00:00:40.000 Mm-hmm.

00:00:41.000 And it's a project that means the world to me.

00:00:45.000 I think it's the most important thing I've ever done.

00:00:46.000 And it's the first ever dementia prevention documentary about the science of dementia prevention.

00:00:53.000 But it focuses...

00:00:54.000 It's a very emotional and personal film for me because it follows my mom...

00:01:09.000 I think?

00:01:22.000 And there's a lot of controversy within the field.

00:01:27.000 The last time I was here, we talked about fraud in the research space with regard to the prevailing hypothesis as to what causes Alzheimer's disease, which is the most common form of dementia.

00:01:41.000 And actually, finally, over the past month, that paper was finally retracted.

00:01:44.000 It took two years.

00:01:46.000 Could you explain to everybody what the fraud was?

00:01:49.000 Yeah, so basically, among the dementias, Alzheimer's disease is the most common form of it, and that affects about 6 million people in the United States.

00:01:57.000 And since it was first named in 1906 by physician Alois Alzheimer, the prevailing hypothesis as to what causes Alzheimer's disease, dubbed the amyloid hypothesis, has been that this plaque formed by a precursor protein called amyloid beta accumulates in the brain,

00:02:16.000 And by finding a drug that can potentially remove, extract those plaques from the brain, from the extracellular space around neurons, that we could essentially cure the disease.

00:02:29.000 That the causal factor in the condition was ultimately this amyloid beta protein, which forms the plaque.

00:02:40.000 Trial after trial had been a dismal failure, and it wasn't looking good until in 2006, a paper was published in Nature, which for any scientist publishing in Nature, it's like winning an Academy Award.

00:02:54.000 And that paper, essentially, what that did was it allegedly identified this variant of amyloid beta that connected the plaque to the cognitive dysfunction.

00:03:06.000 So the most important clinical feature Of Alzheimer's disease.

00:03:09.000 Because for a long time, it was known that cognitively healthy people accumulate plaque in their brains.

00:03:15.000 And that plaque doesn't seem to correlate with cognitive impairment or anything like that.

00:03:19.000 And so that was very deflating for researchers in the field until this 2006 paper came out.

00:03:25.000 And what it did was it renewed faith in this hypothesis, which was always a hypothesis.

00:03:32.000 And Continued to send billions and billions of dollars worth of funding down this path and what turned out to be the case just two years ago was that that paper was essentially fraudulent and It represented about 16 years worth of wasted time wasted money Which was hugely deflating for not just the research community,

00:03:54.000 but also for any patient who's ever suffered from Alzheimer's disease and You know, the way that the field is now slowly starting to turn, but this is a drum that I've been beating for the past 10 years, is that we really need to start talking about these conditions in terms of prevention.

00:04:09.000 And that's what inspired me to set down this path of creating this documentary, Little Empty Boxes.

00:04:14.000 What was the fraud?

00:04:16.000 How did they do it?

00:04:17.000 So basically...

00:04:20.000 In the paper, they identified these proteins that they isolated in rat models of the condition, mouse models of the condition, called A-beta star 56. Again, amyloid is...

00:04:36.000 Amyloid is there at the scene of the crime, so to speak.

00:04:38.000 So when you have Alzheimer's disease, somebody who's died of Alzheimer's disease, what they find inevitably in the brains of cadavers who've died from Alzheimer's disease are two features.

00:04:48.000 They see this aggregation of these plaques, amyloid beta plaques, and tangled proteins called tau.

00:04:54.000 And so it was a very seductive narrative that this plaque causes the condition, right?

00:04:59.000 For years.

00:05:00.000 The problem is they've succeeded at reducing the plaque in the brains of people with Alzheimer's disease, but that hasn't led to any improvement in the clinically meaningful features of the disease that we aspire to improve for sufferers of Alzheimer's disease,

00:05:17.000 right?

00:05:17.000 The cognitive, the cognitive function.

00:05:21.000 And in tandem with that, we see that amyloid is produced naturally in all brains and people who are cognitively healthy have amyloid in their brains.

00:05:28.000 There's a degree of amyloid burden that seems to be inevitable as a just general phenomena due to aging.

00:05:37.000 And so it was becoming very clear that amyloid is not the causative feature here, that there is some other factor or factors at play which lead to cognitive degeneration.

00:05:48.000 Until 2006. And in 2006 what happened, this paper basically found this subtype that when injected into a mouse caused profound cognitive dysfunction.

00:06:00.000 And what they did was they illustrated these proteins in what's called a Western blot analysis, which is basically a graphical depiction of proteins.

00:06:10.000 And the peer review process for papers, I mean, people go in and they crunch the numbers and stuff, but they don't look at imagery, and they don't...

00:06:18.000 They don't go through the imagery with a fine tooth comb to make sure that it hasn't been photoshopped, essentially.

00:06:25.000 But one sleuth, who is a scientist himself, this researcher from Vanderbilt named Matthew Schrag, actually identified that a lot of these images had artifacts that made it very clear that they were faked.

00:06:41.000 Yeah.

00:06:42.000 So full-on fraud.

00:06:44.000 Full-on fraud.

00:06:45.000 And by the way, it's been two years.

00:06:48.000 It took two years for that paper finally to be retracted.

00:06:51.000 Are there any consequences towards people that publish that paper?

00:06:55.000 I mean, it's obviously they have a lot of egg on their face, so to speak.

00:06:59.000 I mean, it's hugely humiliating.

00:07:03.000 But no, I don't think that there's...

00:07:05.000 They're still employed?

00:07:07.000 Yeah.

00:07:08.000 The lead researcher is still employed.

00:07:10.000 I mean, they're investigating Sylvain Lesney, who's a university of...

00:07:15.000 He is a...

00:07:17.000 I want to say Michigan, not Michigan.

00:07:20.000 It'll come to me.

00:07:21.000 But the primary researcher is being investigated.

00:07:26.000 As far as I know.

00:07:27.000 So the primary researcher, they're connecting to the Photoshop?

00:07:30.000 Yeah.

00:07:31.000 They're saying this person might have been the one that released it?

00:07:34.000 Yeah.

00:07:34.000 It was very clear.

00:07:35.000 It was very clear.

00:07:36.000 And that, you know...

00:07:37.000 God, it's so dirty.

00:07:38.000 It's so dirty.

00:07:38.000 It's so evil for all the people that are looking for some sort of relief.

00:07:42.000 Yeah.

00:07:43.000 And that, you know, you have this scientific paper you publish and you knowingly release these Photoshopped images in order to validate your paper.

00:07:53.000 There's a ton of fraud and...

00:07:55.000 God.

00:07:55.000 Yeah.

00:07:56.000 It's so evil when you think about how many people suffer from this.

00:07:59.000 So many people.

00:08:00.000 And you're giving them this false hope just to boost up your academic career.

00:08:05.000 Yeah.

00:08:06.000 It's awful, the lost time.

00:08:07.000 And by the way, that paper has been subsequently referenced thousands of times in the medical literature.

00:08:14.000 Basically, you know, negating a ton of research.

00:08:19.000 I mean, like countless papers that have been since published that have referenced that paper in 2006, that Nature paper that was finally retracted.

00:08:27.000 I mean, think about the lost time.

00:08:28.000 Think about the needless suffering.

00:08:30.000 And it's my view that dementia, essentially by the time you are diagnosed with dementia, we'll say Alzheimer's disease, you are in late stage Alzheimer's disease.

00:08:40.000 Yeah.

00:08:40.000 Whether it's mild, whether you were just diagnosed yesterday, this is a disease of midlife with symptoms that appear in late life.

00:08:48.000 And so that's why the field is now slowly, hopefully, I hope, pivoting more towards prevention.

00:08:53.000 And where the money, I think, needs to go is into identifying that golden biomarker that's associated with the onset of the condition.

00:09:03.000 So that clinicians can intervene earlier.

00:09:06.000 Because right now when you catch it, it's sort of like pancreatic cancer, which incidentally my mom passed from in 2018. But it's, you know, pancreatic cancer, most of the time it's diagnosed and it's too late.

00:09:16.000 The tumor is already metastasized.

00:09:19.000 And so this is kind of similar with Alzheimer's disease.

00:09:21.000 By the time it's diagnosed, you're already very late in the game.

00:09:25.000 There's widespread neuronal dysfunction.

00:09:29.000 Glucose metabolism in the brain is diminished by 50%.

00:09:32.000 So again, you're catching it in its latest stages, ultimately.

00:09:36.000 And that's why I think Alzheimer's drug trials have a 99.6% fail rate.

00:09:42.000 Because by the time you catch it, I think reversing it is impossible.

00:09:45.000 I think it can be slowed with exercise, with a multimodal dietary and lifestyle intervention.

00:09:51.000 But yeah, it's really sad.

00:09:53.000 And so that's why 10 years ago when I saw this developing in my mom and I stumbled upon all this research and I began really diving in, it became very clear to me that this is something that anybody with a brain needs to be aware of and talking about.

00:10:05.000 And what's the factors when it comes to someone eventually getting Alzheimer's?

00:10:11.000 Is it purely genetic?

00:10:13.000 Is it lifestyle?

00:10:14.000 Is it diet?

00:10:15.000 Are there environmental factors and toxins?

00:10:17.000 Like, what is it?

00:10:19.000 Yeah.

00:10:19.000 So there are what are called risk factors.

00:10:22.000 So the heritability of Alzheimer's disease is very low.

00:10:25.000 It's like two to three percent.

00:10:27.000 And the variant that is hereditary is early onset familial.

00:10:30.000 But that makes up a very tiny proportion of overall Alzheimer's incidence.

00:10:36.000 And similarly with Parkinson's disease, the heritability of Parkinson's disease is very low.

00:10:41.000 And I definitely want to talk about Parkinson's disease because there's a lot of really interesting new research in that field.

00:10:47.000 But by and large, with regard to Alzheimer's disease, you have what are called your non-modifiable risk factors, which are your age.

00:10:54.000 You can't change your age, your gender. 0.99

00:10:56.000 You can't change your gender. 1.00

00:10:57.000 I think?

00:11:24.000 Type 2 diabetes, if you have type 2 diabetes, your risk for developing Alzheimer's disease increases between two and fourfold.

00:11:32.000 We interviewed in my documentary the researcher who coined the term type 3 diabetes.

00:11:37.000 Have you heard that?

00:11:38.000 Are you familiar with that concept?

00:11:39.000 No, I haven't.

00:11:40.000 So it's looking a lot like Alzheimer's disease might, in fact, be a form of diabetes of the brain.

00:11:46.000 Wow.

00:11:47.000 Which is a mind-blowing way to think about this condition.

00:11:52.000 And in fact, we see that peripheral insulin resistance, so the hallmark of type 2 diabetes is insulin resistance.

00:12:02.000 And we see that the more insulin resistant a person is, the more difficulty their brains seem to have with regard to creating ATP, which is the primary energy currency of our cells.

00:12:14.000 And the researcher who coined type 3 diabetes, her name is Suzanne Delamonte.

00:12:18.000 She's a Brown University researcher.

00:12:20.000 And she is in no way in the public sphere.

00:12:22.000 She's a, you know, purely a bench researcher.

00:12:25.000 She's actually in my documentary.

00:12:27.000 It was like incredible to get to interview her and speak to her.

00:12:30.000 But it seems that insulin resistance causes the brain to suffer in many ways.

00:12:36.000 It damages the blood vessels.

00:12:37.000 Ultimately, when you have type 2 diabetes, it damages the blood vessels that supply the brain with oxygen, nutrients, energy.

00:12:44.000 But there also seems to be an aspect of insulin resistance that reduces the brain's ability to generate energy.

00:12:54.000 Okay.

00:12:56.000 So, when you first started becoming aware of this, when your mother develops this condition, you first start being aware of it, what were the first things that you noticed that started to get you to question whether or not the conventional applications of drugs are on the right path?

00:13:16.000 Yeah, I mean, you know, I grew up in New York City, and when my mom first started to show these symptoms, And how did you notice it?

00:13:23.000 What were the symptoms?

00:13:25.000 I was living in LA at the time and so we would touch base every other day via phone and she started to complain to me about brain fog.

00:13:34.000 And there was some aspect of what she was sharing with me that I thought was just a natural part of getting older.

00:13:41.000 But ultimately, she revealed to me and the rest of my family that she had sought the help of a neurologist.

00:13:49.000 And that seemed odd.

00:13:51.000 You know, why would my mom... 1.00

00:13:52.000 I hadn't had any prior family incidents of dementia, anything like that.

00:13:57.000 Why was my mom suddenly going to see a neurologist? 1.00

00:14:02.000 And, but you know, like I was still in LA living my, my life.

00:14:06.000 I was in my late twenties at the time, but it wasn't until a trip to Miami.

00:14:11.000 My family went down to Miami to hang out with my dad and Because my parents had been separated.

00:14:15.000 And my mom was in the kitchen. 0.97

00:14:17.000 And she confessed to the family that she'd been having memory problems at this point.

00:14:22.000 So it had been described as brain fog.

00:14:24.000 But she revealed that she had sought the help of a neurologist.

00:14:28.000 And, you know, me and my brothers and my dad, we were in total disbelief that my mom was having anything outside of the...

00:14:37.000 Could possibly be having anything outside of the realm of ordinary.

00:14:40.000 And so we were kind of mocking her in a way.

00:14:44.000 And we said, well, if you're really having such profound problems, what month is it?

00:14:48.000 Or I think it was like, what year is it?

00:14:50.000 Or something like that.

00:14:51.000 And she couldn't recall.

00:14:53.000 She couldn't recall what the month was.

00:14:56.000 And she started to cry.

00:14:59.000 And at that point for me, that's when I knew that something was really wrong and that I needed to step in.

00:15:05.000 Because, you know, when you're sick, that's a really scary place to be.

00:15:09.000 It could be frustrating.

00:15:10.000 It could be confusing.

00:15:12.000 And, you know, when you're in these doctor's offices and they're, you know...

00:15:17.000 Oftentimes, they don't have the best bedside manner, and they run a battery of esoteric tests.

00:15:22.000 It can be incredibly overwhelming, and it becomes really hard to advocate for yourself, I've learned, as somebody with a chronic illness, not least of which a chronic illness that's affecting your cognition.

00:15:32.000 And so I decided at that point, essentially, that I had to pack up my LA life.

00:15:39.000 I moved back to New York, and I started going with my mom.

00:15:41.000 From doctor's visit to doctor's visit.

00:15:44.000 And again, you know, I'm pretty privileged.

00:15:48.000 Grew up in New York City.

00:15:49.000 My mom had health insurance resources. 1.00

00:15:51.000 We started going, you know, to all of these different cathedrals to Western medicine, academic, medical insight.

00:15:58.000 And in every instance, I experienced what I've come to call over time, adios, diagnose and adios.

00:16:03.000 A physician would run these tests, titrate up the dose of a medication that she was already on. 0.97

00:16:08.000 One physician actually thought that all of her symptoms were due to depression.

00:16:11.000 There's this idea of the hysterical woman.

00:16:14.000 Today, one in four women over the age of 40 are on an antidepressant drug.

00:16:18.000 One in four?

00:16:19.000 Yeah, over the age of 40. Jesus Christ.

00:16:21.000 Yeah.

00:16:23.000 I mean, I'm not saying there's no use for them, those kinds of drugs, but they're very over-prescribed.

00:16:29.000 I don't think that's controversial.

00:16:32.000 And so my mom was given one of these drugs without full informed consent, I don't think.

00:16:37.000 I mean, ultimately, we tried to get her off of them, which we found out was incredibly difficult to do.

00:16:42.000 Titrating off one of these SSRIs is really, really hard, actually.

00:16:47.000 And it turned out, obviously, to be the case that my mom, that these symptoms were not due to depression.

00:16:52.000 They were due to degeneration in her brain.

00:16:55.000 And we went from doctor's office to doctor's office, ultimately culminating in a trip to the Cleveland Clinic.

00:17:00.000 So just imagine, like, we're in New York City, right?

00:17:02.000 We have, like, multiple hospitals at our disposal.

00:17:05.000 We had to book a trip to the Cleveland Clinic, and it was there that, for the first time, my mom was diagnosed with a neurodegenerative condition.

00:17:11.000 So she was prescribed drugs for both Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease at that time.

00:17:17.000 And that, to me, was...

00:17:19.000 I've always been a pretty chill guy, but that was the first time in my life I've ever had a panic attack.

00:17:25.000 Just Googling the drugs, you know, like any scared kid would do when their mom receives a life-changing diagnosis.

00:17:33.000 And that was the moment for me that I realized that my life had to pivot and I had no choice but to dedicate myself to learning all that I could about these conditions.

00:17:44.000 And so, you find out about the fraud.

00:17:48.000 How long into your research did you find out that most of what people understood about the condition was based on this fraudulent study?

00:17:58.000 Well, it's not even just the study.

00:18:00.000 It's the fact that these conditions begin decades before the emergence of symptoms.

00:18:07.000 You know, again, it's a disease of midlife, essentially.

00:18:11.000 Alzheimer's disease begins 20 to 30 years, if not more, before the first symptom.

00:18:15.000 And so to me, it became very clear that we were approaching these conditions in the wrong way.

00:18:20.000 You know, trying to...

00:18:22.000 Acting in a reactionary way to something that had taken decades to manifest to me just seemed wrong.

00:18:29.000 And I stumbled upon the work of a neurologist at Weill Cornell New York Presbyterian who was talking about Alzheimer's disease as a preventable condition, which is not something that I'd heard prior to coming across his work.

00:18:46.000 And I realized at that time that this was like considered 10 years ago a fringe idea.

00:18:51.000 Dementia prevention was like a fringe idea.

00:18:54.000 Except for through the lens of this neurologist who was working within the confines of, you know, rigorous, randomized research and, you know, and checking all the boxes for scientific credibility.

00:19:06.000 And, um...

00:19:09.000 And so to me, it became really clear that this is a topic that I needed to help amplify using my skill set as a non-medical doctor, as a non-academic scientist.

00:19:17.000 And I also learned really early on that it's not a genetic condition, that we have genetic risk factors, but that That we have a say when it comes to our cognitive destiny, that this is not a natural part of aging.

00:19:31.000 I mean, you know, everything in the body as you get older tends to falter in its functionality.

00:19:36.000 You know, like, our joints don't work as well.

00:19:38.000 And, you know, there is a degree of forgetfulness that I think is...

00:19:43.000 In a way, a natural aspect of getting older, but cognitive impairment, that's not natural.

00:19:48.000 Degeneration of our neurons of, for example, the portion of the brain that drives movement, the substantia nigra, which occurs in Parkinson's disease, that's not normal.

00:20:02.000 And so it began this investigation for me, trying to understand, because I was seeing the person who meant the most to me of anybody in life.

00:20:09.000 You know, degenerating every day in front of my face, getting worse and worse and worse.

00:20:14.000 It instilled this burning desire in me to understand all that I could and to share in the hopes that it might prevent it from happening to others.

00:20:27.000 And yeah, it was also very odd because my maternal grandmother did not have dementia.

00:20:32.000 So it was really sad and surreal, in fact, that my mom was increasingly requiring around-the-clock care while her mother, who lived in the same home, And was 30 years older was cognitively totally healthy.

00:20:49.000 It was just the oddest thing.

00:20:51.000 My grandmother, my mom's mom, was in her 90s and totally cognitively healthy, able to form cogent senses.

00:20:58.000 And my mom was struggling to express an idea to get out of a bathroom. 1.00

00:21:03.000 And it just, to me, it was so shocking that I... It was traumatic.

00:21:09.000 I mean, I still have PTSD, I think, from those days, but it's, yeah, it's motivated me to do what I can to help.

00:21:18.000 And I saw all in every, you know, by the end of my mom's life, she was on 14 different pharmaceuticals.

00:21:23.000 And I'm not anti-pharma.

00:21:24.000 Like, if there was a drug that would have actually helped my mom, I would have been first in line at the pharmacy to fill that prescription for her.

00:21:30.000 But the drugs don't work at all.

00:21:32.000 And physicians are very quick to, you know, to write a prescription.

00:21:37.000 It's like add a new drug to the arsenal.

00:21:40.000 They're very reluctant to deprescribe.

00:21:45.000 I have never seen a prescription deprescribe to my mom.

00:21:49.000 And by the end of her life, she was on 14 different pharmaceuticals.

00:21:52.000 And there's nobody on earth that understands how all of those different drugs are interacting in a system that's growing increasingly frail.

00:22:00.000 It was just really sad.

00:22:03.000 And, you know, so I started to investigate these modifiable risk factors, you know, whether it's dietary, diet-related, which it, you know, in my mom's case, it may have had something to do with her diet over the years.

00:22:17.000 It might have had nothing to do with her diet over the years.

00:22:19.000 I'll never know.

00:22:20.000 But also now we're starting to see that air pollution is a major contributor to neurodegeneration.

00:22:28.000 We're starting to see now that, well, as of 2020, it was acknowledged that exposure to air pollution is actually one of these newly identified modifiable risk factors for Alzheimer's disease.

00:22:38.000 So exposure to fine particulate matter, PM2.5, actually might cause Alzheimer's disease for some patients.

00:22:46.000 And then Most interestingly, and this is one of the things that I want to talk about with you, which I came across the work of a neurologist named Dr. Ray Dorsey, who's over at University of Rochester, who's done a lot of work publishing on the link between environmental toxicants and Parkinson's disease.

00:23:04.000 Parkinson's disease is now the fastest growing brain disease.

00:23:06.000 And my mom's condition actually had more in common with Parkinson's disease than it did Alzheimer's disease.

00:23:11.000 She had Lewy body dementia, which has more in common with Parkinson's, even though they're both dementia, Lewy body and Alzheimer's.

00:23:20.000 But there's...

00:23:22.000 Data now linking exposure to certain herbicides and pesticides to Parkinson's disease dramatically increased risk.

00:23:29.000 Anywhere between two and a half to six-fold increased risk.

00:23:35.000 Which herbicides and pesticides?

00:23:37.000 So, there's a pesticide called paraquat.

00:23:40.000 There's a great article written in The Guardian by a journalist named Carrie Gillam.

00:23:45.000 And I got to speak on a panel with her recently at a scientific conference in D.C. called Brain and Environment.

00:23:53.000 And paraquat is this compound that it's an herbicide that's produced in China, but its use is banned in China.

00:24:01.000 We import it here.

00:24:02.000 Yeah.

00:24:03.000 It's crazy.

00:24:05.000 Ugh.

00:24:06.000 We use it here, and occupational exposure to this compound is associated with between two and a half to three times the risk for the development of Parkinson's disease.

00:24:20.000 Related compounds are literally used in mouse models to create Parkinson's disease.

00:24:27.000 The company that creates it has been under investigation for years, and what has now come to light is that they knew about the fact that these chemicals accumulate in the brain, in brain tissue, and they seem to selectively target the region of the brain associated with Parkinson's disease,

00:24:48.000 the substantia nigra.

00:24:49.000 Wow.

00:24:50.000 It's very scary.

00:24:53.000 What crops are these used on?

00:24:56.000 Is it specific crops?

00:24:58.000 Is it specific foods to avoid?

00:25:00.000 How do you know if those pesticides or herbicides are being used?

00:25:04.000 Well, the residues and the exposures that you get from eating them is very low, but we don't know what long-term exposure to those low levels is doing to us.

00:25:16.000 My mother is somebody who never believed in Organic produce, right?

00:25:20.000 And organic is not perfect.

00:25:22.000 And natural compounds, some of them are the most dangerous compounds on Earth.

00:25:26.000 So I know, you know, some people listening might say, oh, you know, here we go with the appeal to nature fallacy.

00:25:31.000 But it's very clear that occupational exposure is very hazardous.

00:25:34.000 You have to be licensed.

00:25:35.000 You have to use this stuff very carefully.

00:25:38.000 But some people actually use it to off themselves.

00:25:44.000 I mean, it's a really toxic compound.

00:25:46.000 And we now have data suggesting that it creates this condition, that it selectively targets and destroys dopamine-producing neurons that mediate movement.

00:25:57.000 And it's used in cereal grains, things like that.

00:26:05.000 Why does cannabis oil have a profound effect on Parkinson's patients?

00:26:12.000 You know, I don't know about cannabis oil, but I can tell you about nicotine.

00:26:17.000 And nicotine is a very interesting compound from the vantage point of Parkinsonism.

00:26:23.000 And I know, I mean, a lot of people, you know, love nicotine obviously for its cognitive boosting effects.

00:26:31.000 I'm not going to say that it's a healthy compound.

00:26:33.000 I mean, I think that it has cardiovascular repercussions.

00:26:47.000 Nicotine by itself raises heart rate and it raises blood pressure acutely.

00:26:53.000 Not by much, but presumably And it's vasoconstrictive as well.

00:27:00.000 So there's some evidence suggesting it impedes wound healing.

00:27:07.000 I will occasionally use nicotine as a cognitive enhancer, but I also have...

00:27:13.000 I have chronic low back issues, and I think that, you know, for people with disc issues, this is just a speculation, but I think that it's probably not a good idea to chronically use nicotine if you have disc issues, which are already, your discs and your back are already poorly vascularized,

00:27:29.000 and nicotine is a vasoconstrictor.

00:27:33.000 And smoking, you know, increases your risk for Alzheimer's disease.

00:27:38.000 I don't think that we've identified a relationship between pure nicotine and, well, pretty much anything.

00:27:45.000 The research on pure nicotine by itself is pretty sparse.

00:27:49.000 Most of the research on the health effects of nicotine is confounded by smoking, which is obviously not good for you.

00:27:55.000 But interestingly, there does seem to be an inverse relationship between nicotine use, even via smoking, and Parkinsonism.

00:28:03.000 So people who smoke cigarettes seem to be protected to some degree against Parkinson's disease, which is very odd.

00:28:11.000 And they've shown in mouse models That nicotine actually, when they use some of these mitochondrial toxins, some of these poisons like Paraquat, right?

00:28:22.000 Or another one called MPTP, which has been used as a street party drug, but it's actually profoundly neurotoxic.

00:28:29.000 It's been shown to create chronic Parkinsonism with just acute use.

00:28:34.000 Nicotine actually prevents that in those models.

00:28:38.000 So it's been shown to somehow protect the brain from, in some regards, against Parkinson's disease.

00:28:45.000 So I wouldn't recommend using nicotine unless somebody, and this is again a speculation, but my hypothesis is that if you were exposed occupationally to some of these compounds like Paraquat or Rodinone, or there are other compounds that are being directly connected to Parkinson's disease,

00:29:03.000 too, like trichloroethylene.

00:29:04.000 I would say maybe nicotine is a potentially disease-modifying intervention in those contexts.

00:29:10.000 So when they've studied patients, was there a noticeably smaller instance of people who developed Parkinson's who were smokers, or was it non-existent?

00:29:24.000 They're just...

00:29:25.000 I'm not sure the relative risk decrease, but it's one of these odd things that seems pretty consistent in the literature, that smokers are less likely to develop Parkinson's disease.

00:29:39.000 By what factor?

00:29:40.000 I'm not sure.

00:29:41.000 I'm not sure the factor, but it's significant.

00:29:42.000 It's significant.

00:29:44.000 But smokers are more likely to develop a whole host of other...

00:29:47.000 Oh, yeah.

00:29:48.000 It's terrible for you.

00:29:49.000 Yeah.

00:29:50.000 But that's the interesting thing.

00:29:52.000 It's thought that nicotine protects this one region of the brain in a significant way.

00:29:58.000 Have they looked at people that are taking nicotine in different ways?

00:30:03.000 Like cigars, gum, patches, things along those lines?

00:30:08.000 A lot of the research on nicotine is in animal models, unfortunately.

00:30:15.000 But it does seem to do...

00:30:19.000 If you set the vascular effects aside, which might play a role in neurodegeneration because the brain relies on its vascular network.

00:30:30.000 The brain is a very hungry organ, and vascular dementia is the second most common form of dementia, actually.

00:30:37.000 But nicotine does seem to have some really protective effects on the brain.

00:30:41.000 It seems to reduce neuroinflammation.

00:30:45.000 It...

00:30:47.000 Might act in a way as an antioxidant in the brain.

00:30:49.000 I'm not recommending it because there are risks, of course, but they've shown that it seems to be protective in these animal models against these poisons that would otherwise cause Parkinsonism.

00:31:01.000 And...

00:31:03.000 Some other cool facts about nicotine, actually, because I did do a little bit of a deep dive recently into it, because I do notice a cognitive benefit when I use it.

00:31:11.000 How do you use it?

00:31:13.000 I just use it, I use it, like, before...

00:31:16.000 But what in what form?

00:31:18.000 A lozenge, like a little, like, you know, lozenge.

00:31:22.000 And I don't have an addictive personality, so for me, I'm not like, you know, it's not something that I feel compelled to do every day.

00:31:28.000 But I do it before, like, I have to go on, like, a TV show or do a big podcast or something.

00:31:34.000 And I do see, you know, I do definitely see like a cognitive bit.

00:31:39.000 You know, it's a stimulant.

00:31:40.000 That's pretty well known.

00:31:44.000 But yeah, nicotine also, it has a very short half-life.

00:31:47.000 So its half-life is only about two hours.

00:31:48.000 I mean, you compare that to coffee.

00:31:49.000 Coffee is like eight hours.

00:31:51.000 So it's relatively transient in your system.

00:31:55.000 But then I think the more interesting compound is its primary metabolite, which is called cotinine.

00:32:02.000 Cotinine's half-life is 20 hours long.

00:32:04.000 And it seems to also boost cognitive function, mental health, insofar as animal models can show us that these compounds boost mental health.

00:32:13.000 Might even enhance what's called fear extinction.

00:32:16.000 So for people with PTSD, it might play a role.

00:32:19.000 So it's a really interesting compound.

00:32:22.000 But, you know, again, it's highly addictive.

00:32:27.000 What is cotinine?

00:32:28.000 It's nicotine's primary metabolite in the body.

00:32:31.000 So when you ingest nicotine, nicotine lasts in the body only about...

00:32:36.000 The half-life is two hours, so it lasts presumably about four hours.

00:32:40.000 But it converts to this compound called cotinine in the body.

00:32:44.000 And the half-life of that compound is about 20 hours.

00:32:48.000 So it's in your system for a long time.

00:32:50.000 And that compound doesn't have any of the negative side effects of nicotine.

00:32:54.000 It just seems to do all these interesting, cool...

00:32:57.000 So it has all the positives and none of the negatives?

00:32:59.000 It seems to.

00:33:00.000 I mean, it's not a stimulant.

00:33:01.000 Short and long-term effects of...

00:33:03.000 Oh, that's codeine, bro.

00:33:05.000 It's C-O-T... Different compound.

00:33:12.000 Yeah, that stuff will fuck you up. 0.95

00:33:15.000 That's in cough syrup. 0.87

00:33:16.000 Yeah.

00:33:17.000 Cotinine.

00:33:18.000 Yeah.

00:33:19.000 How do you spell it?

00:33:20.000 C-O-T-I-N-I-N-E, I believe. 1.00

00:33:24.000 Yeah, it's super interesting stuff.

00:33:28.000 And do people take this as a supplement?

00:33:31.000 No, but your body readily will create it from...

00:33:35.000 I don't know if it...

00:33:36.000 It doesn't have the...

00:33:38.000 Cotinine.

00:33:39.000 Yeah, there we go.

00:33:39.000 ...produced by the body after exposure to nicotine, the main metabolite of nicotine.

00:33:43.000 70-80% of nicotine is converted to cotinine.

00:33:45.000 Cotinine is often used as a biomarker for exposure to tobacco smoke.

00:33:49.000 It can be detected in urine.

00:33:50.000 Okay.

00:33:51.000 Cotinine can remain in the body a day or more.

00:33:53.000 Nicotine disappears in a few hours.

00:33:55.000 Yeah, but you can Google like cotinine fear extinction or cotinine cognition.

00:34:00.000 Which is probably why people say that cigarettes relax them.

00:34:03.000 Yeah.

00:34:05.000 Definitely.

00:34:05.000 I mean, it's an anxiolytic.

00:34:06.000 It reduces anxiety.

00:34:08.000 Interesting.

00:34:09.000 Yeah.

00:34:09.000 See, I mean, it does seem to be this, it's like this really interesting compound where it does all these, you know, it has all these effects in the body that many of which I'm sure are negative, but it does seem to do some good stuff for the brain, which is fascinating,

00:34:26.000 you know?

00:34:27.000 So I think, again, I'm not promoting it, but...

00:34:32.000 If you're able to forge, as an adult, a responsible relationship with it, then maybe it's worth experimenting with.

00:34:43.000 Particularly because of its potential to...

00:34:48.000 I don't want this to come off as an endorsement for nicotine, but its ability potentially to protect against Parkinsonism is very interesting.

00:34:56.000 And so when a person, you're saying, so this is something that starts to happen in midlife and then it really expresses itself in dramatic ways years later.

00:35:09.000 Other than the environmental factors, what dietary factors contribute?

00:35:15.000 Except, obviously, pesticides and herbicides that are, unfortunately, a part of our food system now.

00:35:21.000 Yeah.

00:35:22.000 I mean, here's the thing.

00:35:24.000 Organic is...

00:35:26.000 I think?

00:35:41.000 As we've seen, right, with Paraquat and this Chinese company that has shrouded the data, and in fact, they've assembled internally a SWAT team to essentially suppress data suggesting harm due to exposure to this herbicide.

00:35:57.000 Even though it's banned in that country?

00:35:58.000 Even though it's banned in China, yeah.

00:36:00.000 Wow.

00:36:01.000 Just so they can keep selling it.

00:36:02.000 Just so they could keep selling it.

00:36:04.000 But there was another article that came out recently in the publication ProPublica written by, I believe her name was Sharon Lerner, another journalist who I connected with at this DC event that I was at recently, who, it was this crazy,

00:36:19.000 3M has been hiding the health harms, shrouding the health harms, suppressing the health harms due to exposure to these PFAS compounds.

00:36:30.000 That are forever chemicals, known endocrine disruptors.

00:36:34.000 In band-aids.

00:36:35.000 Yeah.

00:36:35.000 So there's like all this corporate collusion and shrouding of the truth.

00:36:40.000 And I'm just like, I think insofar as you can reduce your exposures to these kinds of things and selectively, you know, if money is scarce, you know, selectively buy certain things organic.

00:36:53.000 I think that makes sense.

00:36:54.000 Do they have organic band-aids?

00:36:57.000 That's a good question.

00:36:58.000 I don't know.

00:36:58.000 But they recently identified these compounds, and yeah.

00:37:00.000 Yeah, I read the study about the Band-Aid thing, and I was like, Jesus Christ, is anything safe? 0.99

00:37:05.000 It's not- Fucking Band-Aids? 0.99

00:37:06.000 We've all got microplastics in our balls these days, microplastics in our atheromas, right? 0.99

00:37:11.000 Like they found in our arteries, that the presence of microplastics was associated with two to threefold increased risk of cardiovascular death.

00:37:20.000 So here it is.

00:37:21.000 Partnering with Environmental Health News, a consumer watchdog sent 40 bandages of different brands to U.S. Environmental Protection Agency certified lab.

00:37:29.000 The lab found that 65% of the bandages contained detectable levels of synthetic forever chemicals, or PFAS. Yeah.

00:37:39.000 Wow.

00:37:40.000 Yeah.

00:37:41.000 That is so crazy because it's an open wound.

00:37:44.000 Yeah.

00:37:44.000 It's like literally mainlining right into your bloodstream.

00:37:48.000 It's nuts.

00:37:50.000 And you talk about this stuff today on social media and you're accused of fear-mongering of being alarmist.

00:37:55.000 Yeah, what is that though?

00:37:57.000 Is that trolls from pharmaceutical companies?

00:38:01.000 I mean, that's something that I guarantee you corporations use.

00:38:06.000 If nations use it, and we know they do, and we know we do, we know that there's troll farms in Russia, we know this is a real thing.

00:38:14.000 Why wouldn't corporations use that too, especially if they could farm that off and be removed from it as far as being able to trace back the paperwork?

00:38:25.000 I mean, even within our own government, the USDA, the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 95% of people on that committee have or have had conflicts of interest with the pharmaceutical industry and the food industry.

00:38:42.000 At least 50% that I'm aware of today, working on the 2025 issue, we see all the time there's been a number of great...

00:38:55.000 I think?

00:39:15.000 Yeah.

00:39:15.000 I mean, these companies, they pay these people that are body positive influencers as well.

00:39:21.000 So they're basically paying people that are ill because of eating these things to tell other people it's okay to eat these things and that it's somehow or another phobic, whether it's fat phobic or whatever it is, to not encourage body positivity. 1.00

00:39:38.000 And it's stupid. 1.00

00:39:39.000 It's just stupid. 1.00

00:39:41.000 It's stupid for the people that are getting it. 1.00

00:39:44.000 It's stupid for the people that are promoting it. 1.00

00:39:46.000 It's stupid for our culture to be inundated with this nonsense and misinformation where we have to sort through it and try to do deeper research and consult people who actually understand what's going on. 1.00

00:40:00.000 It's so disheartening that we live in this world that's so compromised by money. 0.98

00:40:05.000 That information about key things like your own health is so distorted that it's hard.

00:40:12.000 Like, you know, you talk to people and so many people have like a basic misunderstanding of what is good and not good for you.

00:40:20.000 And all of it is because of this kind of thing.

00:40:23.000 That it's just so prevalent and it's so confusing.

00:40:27.000 And you're getting expert advice from people, which is one of the wildest ones for me.

00:40:32.000 When you look at...

00:40:33.000 Oh, thank you.

00:40:36.000 Cheers, sir.

00:40:38.000 Cheers.

00:40:38.000 Good to see you.

00:40:39.000 Same. 0.96

00:40:40.000 One of the things that's crazy to me is that we get expert advice from people that are clearly sick.

00:40:45.000 How many times have you had nutrition or dietary advice from someone who Is obese.

00:40:51.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:40:52.000 You're fat. 0.98

00:40:53.000 You have no muscle. 0.99

00:40:55.000 Your body looks like it's just in decay.

00:40:58.000 And you're the person giving advice.

00:41:00.000 Yeah.

00:41:01.000 I mean, most of the social media, you know, personas that I've observed that purport to be experts or that, you know, that seem to have, I don't know whether it's through credentialism, a degree of authority.

00:41:16.000 I mean, I wouldn't send a loved one to.

00:41:18.000 Yeah.

00:41:19.000 It's just gaslighting on a mass scale, because your average person today comes across this ideology that all foods are fine, it's all good, and they try to reduce their consumption of the crap that they're already eating, and they end up failing at that,

00:41:38.000 because it's really hard to moderate your consumption of these foods, which have been engineered to be consumed Quickly and regularly, and then they feel as though they're, you know, they feel moral failure, and then it just creates this vicious cycle of yo-yo dieting.

00:41:55.000 We're not being honest about the way that these foods impact behavior.

00:42:00.000 And today, 60% of the calories that your average person consumes comes from ultra-processed foods, which are foods that are highly calorie-dense.

00:42:07.000 They are nutrient-poor.

00:42:09.000 They are minimally satiating.

00:42:11.000 They're uber-delicious.

00:42:13.000 I mean, they push your brain to a bliss point beyond which self-control is...

00:42:17.000 Seemingly impossible.

00:42:18.000 And by the way, it's these ultra-processed foods that are a major route of ingestion for these kinds of chemicals that we're talking about, these industrial chemicals, forever chemicals.

00:42:28.000 You know, ultra-processed foods are, you know, if you want more phthalates in your body, We're good to go.

00:42:55.000 Which is a very easy, I don't know if easy is the right term, but it's a very simple proxy to use to identify how these compounds might be affecting us, right?

00:43:06.000 But that's only what you can observe.

00:43:07.000 Like, how are these chemicals affecting us in other ways, you know?

00:43:12.000 Right.

00:43:12.000 And so it's crazy.

00:43:15.000 And these are the kinds of foods that we're just eating en masse, day in and day out.

00:43:20.000 And 60% is the average.

00:43:21.000 Children consume about 70% ultra-processed foods today.

00:43:25.000 On average, Black Americans, unfortunately, consume 80% ultra-processed foods.

00:43:30.000 And there's obviously, this is not all choice.

00:43:32.000 There are systemic issues.

00:43:34.000 Many people today still live in food deserts.

00:43:36.000 Accessibility is an issue.

00:43:37.000 Cost is an issue.

00:43:37.000 I know all that.

00:43:39.000 But...

00:43:39.000 The messaging that we're getting from our most trusted sources is essentially that everything's fine.

00:43:45.000 Just eat less, move more.

00:43:48.000 Yeah, and it's so difficult for the average American to access information from people that they can trust or to figure out who to trust.

00:43:57.000 You know, you get experts that tell you, oh, you don't need to take supplements, you just need a well-balanced diet. 0.92

00:44:02.000 And you go, oh, vitamins are bullshit. 0.98

00:44:04.000 And you have people expressing that. 0.99

00:44:06.000 How could someone say that when there's so much data on the efficacy of vitamins and the benefit of vitamin supplementation?

00:44:14.000 Of course.

00:44:15.000 And vitamins, I mean, we need vitamins.

00:44:18.000 Supplements can be really helpful.

00:44:21.000 I get asked this a lot, like, who do you know who to trust on social media?

00:44:24.000 I think a really good heuristic is, you know, somebody actually, I was giving a talk recently, and somebody highlighted that one good indicator of somebody who is likely trustworthy is somebody who is willing to present the opposing viewpoint,

00:44:43.000 and not strawman the opposing viewpoint, but actually steelman the opposing viewpoint, like to actually make clear what the opposing viewpoint is, and then to refute that viewpoint.

00:44:51.000 So they're not ideologically connected to the result.

00:44:54.000 Exactly.

00:44:55.000 So I try to do that.

00:44:57.000 I try to share where I've changed my mind in the past or where I've evolved my viewpoint.

00:45:02.000 I try to be clear about the things that I don't know.

00:45:06.000 I don't know.

00:45:06.000 I'm also not trying to be one of these people on social media that purports to know everything, to have the magic routine or protocol.

00:45:13.000 You know, for everything, you know, as like some kind of, you know, all-knowing arbiter of health information because I feel like there are still so many unknowns and I could easily one day develop what it is.

00:45:28.000 Is that my mom developed?

00:45:30.000 I hope I don't.

00:45:31.000 I had a health scare in 2022 that, um, you know, just proved to me that, you know, there is a lot of like luck that goes into this, you know, into this equation as well.

00:45:43.000 My back hurts.

00:45:44.000 I don't know how to fix that.

00:45:45.000 Like, you know, what have you been doing for your back?

00:45:48.000 Um, well, I try bulging discs.

00:45:51.000 What do you have?

00:45:53.000 Oh man, I have mild, or it's probably progressed, but it's like disc desiccation between L5 and S1. So it's basically a dehydrated disc, which I got from just squatting improperly 10 years ago,

00:46:08.000 and my back's never been the same since.

00:46:13.000 Have you ever used a reverse hyper?

00:46:15.000 No.

00:46:16.000 You don't know about that?

00:46:16.000 No.

00:46:17.000 It was a piece of machinery that was designed by Westside Barbell, Louis Roberts.

00:46:29.000 What's his name?

00:46:30.000 Simmons.

00:46:31.000 Louis Simmons, sorry.

00:46:32.000 Louis Simmons from Westside Barbell developed this machine that strengthens the back and actively decompresses the back.

00:46:39.000 And what it is is your body weight with your chest down sits on this bench and underneath it you hook your legs to this thing that's like a leg curl and you lift up which strengthens your back and on the D cell when it brings it down it's actively pulling your back and it's phenomenal.

00:46:59.000 It's really good.

00:46:59.000 It's really good at decompressing your back.

00:47:01.000 It's really good at strengthening all the muscles around your back to keep your back stable.

00:47:05.000 This is the machine right here.

00:47:06.000 We have one.

00:47:07.000 Yeah, we have the rogue version of it out there in the studio.

00:47:10.000 I could show it to you after we're done here, but I love it.

00:47:12.000 It's phenomenal.

00:47:13.000 And it's great for developing leg strength and hamstring strength and glute strength, but really I use it for lower back, for decompression.

00:47:21.000 Show a video, Jamie, if you would, so we could see how it worked.

00:47:25.000 This is Louie.

00:47:27.000 He was on the podcast back in the day.

00:47:28.000 He was an amazing guy.

00:47:30.000 And very innovative.

00:47:32.000 So he was a power lifter and developed some back problems himself.

00:47:35.000 But you see how on the downswing, it's actually pulling your back and you can feel it pull your back.

00:47:42.000 So you can feel it like separate everything.

00:47:46.000 You feel like little things pop in there and it provides relief.

00:47:50.000 And for him, they were telling them he had to get his disc fused because he had too much compression.

00:47:54.000 He said, well, what about decompression?

00:47:57.000 And they were reluctant to consider that and so he's a genius, a fitness genius, and so he designed a machine that would actively decompress the spine while strengthening the muscles around it.

00:48:09.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:48:10.000 That sounds awesome.

00:48:11.000 Yeah.

00:48:11.000 Have you done any decompression stuff?

00:48:13.000 I bought this thing that you hang upside down on it.

00:48:19.000 This was a couple years ago.

00:48:22.000 I don't know if it helped that much.

00:48:23.000 You know what actually has helped me a lot?

00:48:25.000 I took up during the pandemic boxing.

00:48:27.000 Really?

00:48:28.000 Yeah.

00:48:28.000 Okay, so what's going on is it's strengthening your lower back, which is helping you.

00:48:32.000 That's helped, yeah.

00:48:33.000 Yeah, you need to strengthen it for sure.

00:48:34.000 This is better.

00:48:36.000 Another thing when you're talking about the hanging, you're talking about a teeter, right? 0.99

00:48:40.000 Which teeter, I like that unit, but teeter makes what I think is a far better unit, which is the dex.

00:48:46.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:48:46.000 And so we have that outside, too. 0.71

00:48:48.000 And what that does is, instead of hanging from your ankles so your legs tense up and your legs resist the weight of your body, instead of that, everything hinges down from your hips, and you will, like, immediately feel when you get down there your back popping and decompressing.

00:49:04.000 I use that every day.

00:49:06.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:49:06.000 It's called the DEX2. You know, just buy it off Amazon. 0.71

00:49:12.000 It's not expensive.

00:49:13.000 You also could do back extension exercises on it.

00:49:15.000 It's a very versatile machine, but man, for decompressing the back, I've never found anything better.

00:49:21.000 Changed my life.

00:49:22.000 That's awesome.

00:49:22.000 Thank you.

00:49:23.000 And I also use those kinds of things with weight.

00:49:27.000 So what I'll do is I'll hold two 20-pound dumbbells in my hands, and I'll do back extensions.

00:49:34.000 So I'm developing strength around all those muscles.

00:49:37.000 Lower back issues.

00:49:38.000 I've had a lot of back issues from disc degeneration from jiu-jitsu.

00:49:43.000 You know, 20 years of wrestling with men and getting your neck strangled, and it does a lot of stuff to your back that's not good.

00:49:50.000 And you've never had surgery, right?

00:49:51.000 No.

00:49:52.000 Everyone that I know has had problems.

00:49:55.000 I do not know anyone that has had back surgery.

00:49:57.000 That's like, that's the best thing I ever did.

00:50:00.000 Everyone, like Daniel Cormier, UFC champion, he's like, I was never the same.

00:50:05.000 Once they cut my back open, it was never the same.

00:50:07.000 There's ways to also deal with it with stem cells.

00:50:11.000 And one of the things they're doing now, because the FDA has such restrictive rules on stem cells, people are going overseas and other countries to do it.

00:50:18.000 And I have some friends that run a clinic down in Tijuana, the Cellular Performance Institute.

00:50:24.000 And I know many people, including a good friend of mine, my friend Shane Dorian, who is a world champion surfer who's had pretty severe back problems.

00:50:34.000 He went there and they're injecting directly into the discs.

00:50:38.000 And there's a very strict protocol of recovery.

00:50:41.000 You're not doing anything physical for like a couple of months after that.

00:50:45.000 You can walk.

00:50:46.000 Essentially, they don't want any stress on the back, anything that's going to impede the healing process.

00:50:53.000 He said within six months after that, all of the issues that he had went away.

00:50:57.000 Wow.

00:50:58.000 Getting up in the morning, it was always like, oh, just stiff.

00:51:01.000 No stiff.

00:51:01.000 Like a new back now.

00:51:03.000 Wow.

00:51:03.000 Wild.

00:51:04.000 Wild.

00:51:05.000 And you could do that again, and you could do it again, and you could do it again.

00:51:08.000 It's not like a thing you could only do once.

00:51:10.000 Right?

00:51:10.000 It's not like a surgery that they're going to go in and remove part of your disc.

00:51:14.000 So they do that, the discectomy, they'll take a chunk of your disc out that's pressing against the nerve.

00:51:18.000 But now, guess what?

00:51:19.000 Now you have less disc tissue.

00:51:21.000 You have less cushioning in between your spinal column, which is not good.

00:51:25.000 And this is a way that they're doing now that seems to work.

00:51:29.000 And it's certainly at least worth a try, you know, for people that are considering something that can have life-changing effects.

00:51:37.000 Yeah, I mean, whenever I sneeze, I have back pain, tilting over a sink, putting on my underwear.

00:51:43.000 But I live with it.

00:51:44.000 I'm strong.

00:51:46.000 I'm the strongest I've ever been.

00:51:47.000 I'm in good shape, but it is sort of my Achilles heel.

00:51:52.000 Do you ever do windmills, like kettlebell windmills?

00:51:55.000 No.

00:51:56.000 Another phenomenal lower back exercise.

00:51:59.000 Great for the entire core, but you clean and press a kettlebell and then you turn to the side with like...

00:52:08.000 So if I'm holding the kettlebell up with my right arm, my left foot would be pointed that way with your knee bent.

00:52:14.000 And you drop down like this.

00:52:16.000 Whoa, yeah.

00:52:17.000 And then all the way up like that.

00:52:18.000 And so it's on both sides.

00:52:20.000 It's strengthening all those supporting muscles around your spine.

00:52:24.000 And it just gives you much better range of motion.

00:52:27.000 I can feel things sort of pop and move and twist around when I do it.

00:52:30.000 It's great.

00:52:31.000 Whoa.

00:52:31.000 Love it.

00:52:32.000 Phenomenal.

00:52:33.000 I'm going to do that.

00:52:33.000 Yeah, Turkish get-ups, another one.

00:52:36.000 Do you ever do those?

00:52:37.000 Not a very sexy exercise, but phenomenal for your core and just your overall ability to move things.

00:52:45.000 You know, because it strengthens all of the connecting areas.

00:52:50.000 Instead of strengthening different specific muscle groups, it really is working on strengthening all the weaknesses in your system.

00:52:58.000 You know how Turkish get-up works? 0.93

00:53:01.000 Yeah.

00:53:01.000 So you're lying flat on your back, you press this up, you sit up, you get to one knee, you post the other knee, you get up, you stand up straight, and then you lower yourself back the same way.

00:53:11.000 Damn. 0.99

00:53:11.000 Very, very difficult exercise. 0.99

00:53:13.000 Difficult to do, but phenomenal for the whole thing.

00:53:17.000 Wow.

00:53:18.000 And I think one of the problems that people have when it comes to weightlifting and developing problems, and I've certainly had plenty, Is that you're overloading certain muscle groups and then all the stuff that connects things together, the lower back, the neck, all these different issues.

00:53:34.000 They happen because your whole system is not strong uniformly.

00:53:41.000 You're developing strong muscle groups like quads, but how are the hamstrings?

00:53:49.000 How are the things behind your calves?

00:53:50.000 How are your tib muscles?

00:53:52.000 How's your lower back?

00:53:54.000 What exercises have you done to make sure that your spine is protected?

00:54:00.000 I find that unilateral movements are really helpful, like Bulgarian split squats.

00:54:06.000 As painful as those are to do, I find that those help a lot and they don't aggravate my lower back at all.

00:54:13.000 I can't barbell squat.

00:54:14.000 I can't even really, because my range of motion is now so limited, do leg presses on the machine.

00:54:20.000 Your range of motion for your back?

00:54:22.000 When you do leg presses?

00:54:23.000 It's just limited in the sense that my...

00:54:26.000 I don't know the terminology, but it's like hip mobility or something.

00:54:30.000 My legs only get to a certain point where I get that butt wink thing. 0.91

00:54:35.000 My lower back starts curving up.

00:54:38.000 Words on the leg press, and that's like strain.

00:54:40.000 Do you do slantboard exercises?

00:54:45.000 No.

00:54:45.000 What is that?

00:54:46.000 Okay.

00:54:46.000 There's a guy called the Slantboard Guy that made this dope product.

00:54:50.000 And one of the things I love about his...

00:54:52.000 Go to Slantboard Guy's page.

00:54:54.000 One of the things I love about his is his has these little hooks on the side where you can add bands to it as well.

00:55:00.000 Whoa.

00:55:00.000 And so what a slant board is, is a board that you do squats on where the back of it is raised, so your toes are pointing down, your heels are pointing up, and what this allows you to do is get a very deep bend of the knees, and you get your knees That push out over your toes and you really lower,

00:55:19.000 you know, ass to heels. 0.68

00:55:21.000 And what I do with those, that's it right there. 0.97

00:55:24.000 I have that one at home.

00:55:25.000 He made me one of those.

00:55:26.000 So you can do this.

00:55:27.000 They're doing it with different exercises here.

00:55:29.000 These are just calf strengthening exercises.

00:55:31.000 I do them with bodyweight squats and one of the things I do them with is goblet squats.

00:55:37.000 I have very strong legs, but I never do deadlifts, and I never do like regular squats.

00:55:44.000 The heaviest thing I squat with is a 100-pound kettlebell.

00:55:48.000 So I hold a 100-pound kettlebell in front of me, and then I do goblet squats on that.

00:55:54.000 And what that does is it strengthens...

00:55:57.000 When you have a heavy weight, like a 100-pound kettlebell, and you're holding it in this position...

00:56:03.000 Just to hold it there, your whole body wants to go forward, right?

00:56:06.000 Because it's like, it's all this weight out in front of you.

00:56:09.000 So you're stabilizing it with your lower back, you're stabilizing it with your abs, and then you're dropping down very deep into this bodyweight squat and then up for this goblet squat.

00:56:22.000 And I do it on that, on the slant board.

00:56:24.000 Phenomenal, and it doesn't put a lot of strain on your back.

00:56:27.000 That's awesome.

00:56:28.000 I've noticed that front squats, or, yeah, maybe, I guess I've used dumbbells to do goblet squats.

00:56:34.000 Those are great, too.

00:56:35.000 Yeah.

00:56:36.000 A lot less load on the spine.

00:56:38.000 So that's helped me a lot, too.

00:56:40.000 And really hard to do.

00:56:41.000 Yeah, so this is it, right?

00:56:42.000 This gentleman's doing it right here perfectly.

00:56:44.000 So he's doing a bunch of different variations of it.

00:56:48.000 So he's doing, you know, oh look, yeah, he's going side lunges.

00:56:53.000 So the goblet squat is there.

00:56:55.000 So he's got, who's this guy right here?

00:56:59.000 Oh, it's on the Slantboard Guy's channel?

00:57:01.000 So Slantboard Guy, like I said, he sent me that, and he's been doing this. 0.96

00:57:08.000 He made these quite a long time ago, and I think it's just a phenomenal piece of exercise equipment that I have in every gym.

00:57:15.000 I have here, I have my house.

00:57:17.000 That's freaking awesome.

00:57:18.000 Yeah.

00:57:19.000 Yeah, I mean, fitness is a huge part of my life, but I've been limited for the past decade.

00:57:24.000 Because of the back.

00:57:25.000 Because of the back, yeah.

00:57:26.000 After this podcast, I'm going to take you next door and show you that reverse hyper, and you get to experience that dex.

00:57:32.000 Yeah.

00:57:33.000 Just those two things alone, I think, will provide you tremendous relief.

00:57:36.000 So excited.

00:57:37.000 And the dex you just have in your house.

00:57:39.000 It's simple, easy to set up.

00:57:41.000 I'm so down.

00:57:42.000 Yeah.

00:57:43.000 Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a lot that I, you know, obviously don't know, but I know what I know, and I know that from a nutritional standpoint, from an environmental exposure standpoint, your average American today is inflicting self-harm unwittingly on a daily basis via the foods,

00:57:59.000 via the exposures.

00:58:01.000 Yeah, we're just constantly taking in things that give us inflammation.

00:58:05.000 Yeah.

00:58:06.000 And, you know, our circadian rhythms are all dysregulated.

00:58:10.000 We're more sedentary than we've ever been.

00:58:11.000 We're exposed to...

00:58:12.000 I mean, I believe it was the Environmental Working Group identified 217 industrial chemicals in cord blood, you know, of pregnant women.

00:58:22.000 We're being exposed, you know, from every which way.

00:58:25.000 And it's not necessarily that it's like one compound that's causing all of our problems, you know?

00:58:32.000 But it's cumulative injury.

00:58:34.000 It's like our bodies are resilient, but they can only contend with so much.

00:58:38.000 So you throw all these exposures against the backdrop of widespread nutrient deficiencies, you know, unprecedented sedentary behavior, chronic stress, poor sleep.

00:58:50.000 And it's a recipe for chronic disease.

00:58:53.000 I mean, to me, it's very clear as to why so many of us seem to be suffering.

00:58:58.000 Yeah, and it's very difficult for someone who's swimming in a sea of that to figure out how to course correct.

00:59:04.000 Yeah, and to quote-unquote detoxify, which has become one of these contentious words now on social media, granted maybe possibly for good reason because it's used to sell detox supplements and things like that, but I mean our bodies can detox.

00:59:19.000 We just have to make sure that we're giving our bodies the right raw materials to do that.

00:59:23.000 And that's actually one reason why I think I'm not a carnivore dieter.

00:59:28.000 I'm a big advocate of consuming grass-fed, grass-finished meat.

00:59:31.000 I'm a huge protein guy, but I do think dietary fiber plays an important role in terms of helping us detoxify, release some of these compounds when we go to the bathroom.

00:59:40.000 How does dietary fiber play a role in detoxifying?

00:59:44.000 So, the three primary means in which a body detoxifies is via peeing, pooping, and sweating.

00:59:50.000 And when you release bile acids into the lumen of the gut, with those bile acids compounds of the liver has essentially deemed, has marked for removal from the body.

01:00:05.000 And fiber, dietary fiber, soluble fiber specifically, sequesters these bile acids.

01:00:12.000 And because they're absorbed by the soluble fiber, they disallow reabsorption.

01:00:17.000 And so you poop them out.

01:00:19.000 That's one of the reasons...

01:00:20.000 That's actually the mechanism by which soluble fiber can reduce LDL cholesterol, ApoB, because it sequesters bile acids, which your liver creates using cholesterol.

01:00:32.000 And...

01:00:34.000 So you essentially poop out lipids, toxins.

01:00:37.000 I mean, if you're not pooping on a regular basis, you're harboring toxins.

01:00:41.000 That's why I think that's probably one of the mechanisms by which fiber seems to be so consistently associated with healthspan, lifespan.

01:00:52.000 And those observations are not necessarily causal.

01:00:55.000 There's healthy user bias there.

01:00:56.000 I think obviously people who eat more fruits and vegetables today They likely have other healthy dietary and lifestyle habits.

01:01:05.000 That's clear, right?

01:01:06.000 But I do think there's a mechanism for fiber to help remove some of these toxins and the like.

01:01:12.000 And is the idea behind that mechanism that fiber encourages defecation?

01:01:18.000 Fiber, the soluble fiber, like, traps.

01:01:21.000 Basically, bile acids get released into the lumen of the gut, which help break down fats, right?

01:01:26.000 You need these compounds to break down and assimilate fats from your diet, right?

01:01:31.000 But there's a very small, I believe it's at the end of the small intestine where these acids essentially would otherwise get reabsorbed, but because they're trapped by the soluble gel-forming fiber, They get passed.

01:01:42.000 And so how is that different than what would happen if you just ate meat and you have these compounds?

01:01:50.000 That's a big question mark, but I think that that's something that is not often discussed and should be discussed.

01:01:57.000 One of the potential benefits of fiber is the fact that it helps trap toxins in the gut.

01:02:01.000 And meat does not?

01:02:02.000 No.

01:02:03.000 Meat is a low residue food.

01:02:05.000 Meat is largely absorbed in the small intestine.

01:02:07.000 I mean, when people...

01:02:08.000 You know, the bulk of stool is made up of fiber and dead bacteria and cells that have been sloughed off the, you know, epithelial layer of the large intestine, small intestine.

01:02:22.000 But yeah, fiber is generally what makes up, you know, the majority of a stool.

01:02:27.000 And if you just eat meat, then what is your stool?

01:02:32.000 Well, I've never personally done a carnivore diet and I'm not a gastroenterologist, but carnivore dieters say that they poop fine, but I think it's a missed opportunity to not be getting fiber in your diet.

01:02:45.000 I don't think that the carnivore diet long-term is optimal.

01:02:50.000 Short-term, and also I will say that people that see reprieve from awful conditions like So the primary function of fiber that you think is beneficial versus having a carnivore diet is the fact that it can absorb these compounds inside the gut,

01:03:16.000 whereas if you're just eating meat, that's not going to happen.

01:03:20.000 Correct.

01:03:20.000 I think that's one of the benefits of fiber.

01:03:23.000 I think fiber has a few benefits.

01:03:26.000 So for one, fiber is satiating.

01:03:28.000 It's not as satiating as protein, but it does mechanically stretch out the stomach, which turns off the hunger hormone ghrelin.

01:03:35.000 So fiber containing foods are beneficial because they're satiating.

01:03:44.000 Two, for this lipid regulation, hormone regulation, toxin removal function that fiber plays.

01:03:54.000 But then three, fiber seems to promote...

01:04:00.000 Gut bacterial diversity.

01:04:02.000 There are some studies that suggest otherwise, that it's not necessarily the fiber, it's fermented foods that play a larger role in promoting gut bacterial diversity.

01:04:11.000 But we know that fiber feeds gut bacteria, and as a result, we get beneficial postbiotic compounds like sodium butyrate, which is anti-inflammatory, feeds cells in the gut.

01:04:25.000 I think there are a few benefits to fiber consumption.

01:04:31.000 I don't think that fiber is the primary thing that we should be looking for in the diet necessarily.

01:04:40.000 I prioritize protein.

01:04:41.000 I think eating a protein-rich diet, there seems to be many benefits of that.

01:04:47.000 And fiber is not an essential nutrient, but it does seem to do good things in the body.

01:04:54.000 So, I mean, I'm not anti-fiber.

01:04:56.000 Yeah, it's one of the weird arguments from the carnivore diet side is that fiber is not necessary.

01:05:03.000 And, you know, when you see these people that have been eating nothing but meat for 5, 10 years and show an alleviation of all sorts of symptoms of different autoimmune conditions and different issues that they've had, it's interesting.

01:05:16.000 Totally.

01:05:18.000 First of all, there's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all diet.

01:05:21.000 And plants, people have different tolerances to different plants.

01:05:27.000 Red meat, for example, is much more well-tolerated by the vast, vast majority of people.

01:05:33.000 I mean, there's a complication of Lyme disease known as alpha-gal syndrome, where people develop a sensitivity to red meat.

01:05:38.000 But by and large, red meat, provided you're producing enough stomach acid, You should be able to...

01:05:43.000 Is that officially a Lyme disease?

01:05:45.000 I thought it was from the Lone Star Tick.

01:05:47.000 It's a different...

01:05:48.000 That, yes.

01:05:49.000 Yeah.

01:05:50.000 Yeah, I believe you're right.

01:05:51.000 I believe you're right.

01:05:53.000 I'm not 100% sure, but it's associated with one of these tick-borne...

01:05:58.000 Yeah, a buddy of mine got it.

01:05:59.000 Yeah, my friend Evan had it for a year.

01:06:01.000 And it actually went away and then came back again.

01:06:04.000 Crazy.

01:06:04.000 Yeah.

01:06:05.000 For a year he couldn't eat red meat.

01:06:06.000 He was allergic to red meat.

01:06:08.000 I feel for those people.

01:06:09.000 Yeah, it was rough.

01:06:09.000 He's a hunter too.

01:06:11.000 Wow.

01:06:12.000 So he's eating chicken.

01:06:14.000 Yeah.

01:06:15.000 I mean, I love my steak.

01:06:18.000 Yeah.

01:06:21.000 So, you know, like, red meat, generally very, very well tolerated.

01:06:25.000 Chicken, very well tolerated.

01:06:26.000 But it's these plant products, these plant items that seem to, you know, people have different sensitivities to them.

01:06:33.000 So I wouldn't say, like, you have to eat broccoli or you have to eat spinach.

01:06:36.000 Like, people have different...

01:06:37.000 You know, and we're also, today there's widespread gut dysbiosis.

01:06:42.000 So people have problems with their guts.

01:06:43.000 They have immune systems that are not fully competent, as evidenced by the soaring prevalence of autoimmune conditions and allergies and the like today.

01:06:53.000 Which I think is attributed to there are many factors that play a role.

01:06:56.000 You know, it could be overuse of antibiotics.

01:06:59.000 It could be the hygiene hypothesis.

01:07:01.000 We've just become so sterile as a culture.

01:07:04.000 Fewer people today are being, or kids are being breastfed or being born via C-section.

01:07:10.000 Travel can play a role.

01:07:11.000 You know, you travel to some foreign country, you get an infection.

01:07:14.000 That changes the microbiome.

01:07:17.000 And so I think like we have these sensitivities that are not surprising.

01:07:21.000 But I think by and large for most people, these plant foods have a lot of good to offer.

01:07:27.000 You know that the benefits, generally speaking, outweigh risks.

01:07:32.000 I'm glad you brought up the overuse of antibiotics because there's a very interesting case.

01:07:37.000 That belt on the wall up there, the Abu Dhabi Combat Club, that's the most prestigious grappling competition in the world.

01:07:46.000 And the guy who won that is the greatest grappler of all time.

01:07:49.000 His name is Gordon Ryan.

01:07:50.000 And he's a guy who's only 28 years old, which is really wild.

01:07:54.000 And he hasn't been beaten in, like, forever.

01:07:58.000 And it's not whether or not he beats people, it's how he beats them.

01:08:02.000 He's that good.

01:08:03.000 He's one of the most dominant athletes of any sport of all time.

01:08:07.000 But he had staph infection, which is very common amongst grapplers.

01:08:11.000 It's very common.

01:08:12.000 People get a lot of staph infections.

01:08:13.000 Well, he was getting it so often that he was essentially on antibiotics for a whole year.

01:08:19.000 And his gut is fucked up real bad to the point where he's like constantly nauseous. 0.66

01:08:25.000 He's seen a bunch of different doctors, they've tried to fix it in a bunch of different ways, and no one can really figure it out. 0.72

01:08:32.000 Like, when someone has developed a really destroyed gut biome because of antibiotics and long-term, like, really irresponsible long-term use of antibiotics, what can someone do to try to come back from that?

01:08:48.000 Yeah, I mean, most people would reach for a probiotic, but there was actually a study that came out a couple years ago that found that probiotics, after a course of antibiotics, I believe the antibiotic was Cipro, actually delayed recolonization of the gut by healthy bacteria.

01:09:04.000 How so?

01:09:05.000 I don't know.

01:09:06.000 The microbiome is a big buzz term, and there are still so many more unanswered questions than there are answers.

01:09:14.000 I think based on my assessment of the literature, and I've written about it in my books, I think that the best thing to do would probably be just to slowly get back to a diet.

01:09:26.000 That contains fermented foods.

01:09:29.000 I think fermented foods have been shown to be really supportive of gut bacterial diversity.

01:09:34.000 That's what I like.

01:09:35.000 I love kimchi.

01:09:35.000 More so than probiotic supplements, I think fermented foods are really what's up.

01:09:40.000 Kimchi, I'm a huge fan of natto. 1.00

01:09:42.000 Raw sauerkraut, raw pickles, you have to make sure that they're raw, not pasteurized.

01:09:48.000 But yeah, that seems to be really helpful.

01:09:50.000 And then essentially just feeding, eating, because what you feed, you breed.

01:09:54.000 You know, so eating...

01:09:56.000 Well, he has a hard time even keeping food down.

01:09:59.000 Yeah.

01:10:00.000 He's in this position where he's like constantly nauseous and he tries to train, but he gets nauseous while he's training sometimes.

01:10:07.000 That's rough.

01:10:08.000 What would you recommend to someone like that?

01:10:11.000 Yeah, I would say...

01:10:13.000 I mean, it depends.

01:10:15.000 You know, some people do really well on low FODMAP diets.

01:10:17.000 So, like, you know, these fermentable carbohydrates that include fiber, but also include other specific carbohydrates that are easily fermented.

01:10:27.000 Like, what are those?

01:10:28.000 You know, like, there's certain prebiotic carbohydrates that are found just across the...

01:10:38.000 You know, like throughout the produce section of the supermarket that are...

01:10:43.000 Usually eliminated when attacking SIBO, bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine.

01:10:50.000 People can Google.

01:10:51.000 There's a whole list of...

01:10:53.000 It's a low FODMAP diet.

01:10:56.000 Because Gordon has been doing this, trying to deal with this for a couple of years now.

01:11:02.000 Here it is.

01:11:03.000 Low FODMAP diet.

01:11:04.000 So vegetables, fruits, dairy, alternatives.

01:11:07.000 These are all high.

01:11:08.000 High FODMAP groups.

01:11:09.000 These are low down here.

01:11:11.000 And the low stuff is vegetables like eggplants, green beans, bok choy, bell peppers, fruits, cantaloupe, capes.

01:11:18.000 Okay, so all sorts of different things that you can eat that can potentially help you.

01:11:24.000 Yeah, so I would...

01:11:25.000 He's on a bunch of medications.

01:11:26.000 It's like nothing's happening.

01:11:28.000 I mean, I would probably adopt a low FODMAP diet and at a certain point, you know, again, I'm just speculating.

01:11:37.000 So, I mean, this could be the worst advice.

01:11:39.000 So don't take with a grain of salt.

01:11:40.000 But I would probably adopt one of those diets and then, you know, first, maybe even like an elimination diet, like a really aggressive one.

01:11:49.000 Because people with serious gut issues, I mean, again, I'm not like a carnivore advocate, but seem to do really well, at least in the short term on these carnivore diets.

01:11:57.000 So I would say maybe try something like that.

01:12:00.000 If that is too restrictive, then I would try maybe a low FODMAP diet.

01:12:04.000 Have you ever thought about trying a carnivore diet just to see what's up?

01:12:09.000 I've thought about it.

01:12:11.000 I would do it.

01:12:12.000 I have nothing against it.

01:12:13.000 I would do it.

01:12:14.000 I just, you know, I think I enjoy dark leafy greens.

01:12:18.000 I think there's benefit in them.

01:12:21.000 But just to see how I felt on it, I would try it.

01:12:25.000 It's very interesting.

01:12:27.000 One of the interesting things...

01:12:28.000 You do it every year, right?

01:12:29.000 Yeah.

01:12:30.000 I pretty much do it most of the time now.

01:12:32.000 But I'm not strict.

01:12:34.000 I'll eat fruit.

01:12:35.000 I certainly like kimchi.

01:12:37.000 I like to eat kimchi and steak together.

01:12:39.000 That's like a nice combination.

01:12:40.000 I love that.

01:12:41.000 But most of my meals are meat and eggs.

01:12:44.000 The vast majority, 85-90% of my meals are meat and eggs.

01:12:49.000 And the regulation of my energy level is incredible.

01:12:52.000 It's just changed everything.

01:12:54.000 I used to get tired in the afternoon.

01:12:56.000 You know, it used to be like the afternoon, I'd be like, oh, then I'd have to power through, get a cup of coffee, wake up, figure out what to do, and then go to a show.

01:13:05.000 That's not the case anymore.

01:13:06.000 Like, I'm wide awake all day long.

01:13:08.000 It's very different.

01:13:10.000 It's very different in when you eliminate...

01:13:13.000 Essentially, most carbohydrates from your diet and then your body starts to produce glucose via gluconeogenesis through absorption of protein and meat.

01:13:23.000 The whole thing changes.

01:13:24.000 You have a steady, manageable level of energy throughout the entire day.

01:13:30.000 And cognitively, it's been one of the best things I've ever done.

01:13:33.000 When I first started doing it again, I'd gotten off of it for a while and I first started doing it again.

01:13:38.000 All of a sudden I was like, Jesus Christ, I have like an extra gear in my brain.

01:13:42.000 It's like conversationally, it's like for podcasting for me.

01:13:46.000 I found it very beneficial.

01:13:48.000 That's awesome.

01:13:50.000 Yeah, you know, I'm like, I don't...

01:13:52.000 But again, you said like there's no like one size fits all.

01:13:56.000 Yeah.

01:13:56.000 For me, that seems to work.

01:13:58.000 I eat a...

01:13:59.000 I... I would consider myself carnivore-adjacent in the sense that I am a huge fan of, I think, red meat's a health food, which I know.

01:14:10.000 I mean, saying that in and of itself is a controversial statement today.

01:14:14.000 I take a very protein-forward approach with my diet.

01:14:17.000 Like, I think that protein, there are many benefits to prioritizing protein.

01:14:21.000 It's the most satiating macronutrient.

01:14:23.000 You've got a six-fold higher thermic effect of eating protein as compared to carbs and fat.

01:14:28.000 Obviously, your body is made of protein.

01:14:30.000 It supports muscle protein synthesis.

01:14:32.000 It halts muscle protein.

01:14:33.000 There's so many benefits to prioritizing protein, which I do.

01:14:36.000 But I do think that, you know, like dark leafy greens, for example, is known to be one of the most nutrient-dense forms of produce because of its low calorie density, and it's a great source of vitamin C,

01:14:52.000 folate, But also I think dark leafy greens, I mean, take kale.

01:14:57.000 Kale's the top source of these carotenoids called lutein and zeaxanthin, which we know directly support eye health and brain health.

01:15:05.000 And so I don't see a reason to deprive myself of these greens that I know have these compounds that Literally migrate up to the brain where they help to reduce oxidative stress.

01:15:15.000 They might even improve the way, you know, cognitive function and the like.

01:15:19.000 I think the arguments against eating those to me always are like some of the silliest is that plants are producing these chemicals to avoid predation.

01:15:28.000 Yeah.

01:15:28.000 And that these phytochemicals are bad for you like Jesus Christ in a world today where there's so much that's bad for you.

01:15:37.000 To concentrate on salad seems fucking crazy. 0.90

01:15:41.000 I don't think anybody's dying from salad. 0.99

01:15:44.000 I don't think you should live off salad. 0.99

01:15:47.000 And everybody that I know that tries to eat only vegetables winds up feeling like shit. 0.99

01:15:52.000 And there's only a few exceptions to that. 0.98

01:15:55.000 And again, there's no one-size-fits-all diet.

01:15:58.000 But the people that I know that have gone into a vegan diet, almost all of them get bad blood work.

01:16:03.000 Oh, yeah.

01:16:04.000 And they try to figure out what's wrong and then many of them try to supplement and then one day they'll have a piece of salmon and feel like their body just returned on and then they go, okay, I gotta stop doing this.

01:16:15.000 I hear that all the time.

01:16:16.000 Yeah, veganism is a psyop to me.

01:16:18.000 It's an ideology.

01:16:20.000 It's an ideology just like any other cult.

01:16:22.000 And once you become a part of that, you lose all objectivity and you're no longer willing to talk about these things in a rational way.

01:16:30.000 You're defending your religion.

01:16:32.000 Yeah.

01:16:33.000 I think one thing that's really interesting is that, you know, even within the nutritional orthodoxy, saturated fat still continues to be demonized, right?

01:16:42.000 But only 3% of the saturated fat that your average American intakes, ingests, comes from steak, comes from meat.

01:16:50.000 The vast majority of saturated...

01:16:52.000 Like, if you were just to accept that saturated fat is the worst dietary nutrient one might ingest...

01:16:57.000 By the way, that's a psyop.

01:16:59.000 Yeah.

01:17:00.000 Literally, from the sugar company.

01:17:02.000 Because saturated fat...

01:17:03.000 A fat isn't a fat.

01:17:04.000 Like, are we talking about saturated fat in dairy?

01:17:06.000 Because that seems to have no negative cardiovascular impact, right?

01:17:10.000 Yeah.

01:17:11.000 But 3% comes from red meat, excluding mixed dishes.

01:17:15.000 The vast majority of saturated fat that your average American ingests comes from desserts, comes from mixed dishes like pizza, lasagna, egg rolls, things like that.

01:17:24.000 The good stuff.

01:17:25.000 Dairy.

01:17:25.000 Yeah.

01:17:26.000 Dairy makes me hungry.

01:17:28.000 But it's like we've demonized steak, right?

01:17:30.000 Which is like one of the most nutrient dense things a person can eat, right?

01:17:34.000 Yeah, we're in a very strange position, this country at least, with regards to our understanding of what is actually good and not good for you.

01:17:43.000 You know, when I tell people that I eat mostly meat, they're like, what about your cholesterol?

01:17:47.000 I'm like...

01:17:51.000 To try to walk them down the rabbit hole of good cholesterol, bad cholesterol, the balance of cholesterol, cholesterol as it relates to plaque in your arteries.

01:18:04.000 What's really wrong?

01:18:06.000 And is it actual food that most people eat?

01:18:09.000 Is that really what the problem is?

01:18:11.000 Because I doubt that it is.

01:18:12.000 I doubt that it's meat.

01:18:13.000 I doubt that it's eggs.

01:18:15.000 I doubt that that's the problem. 0.99

01:18:16.000 And when people are willing to readily consume this processed bullshit on a daily basis, but then demonize steak, I'm like, that is one of the dumbest things that we have become accustomed to. 0.99

01:18:30.000 This idea that a steak is delicious, but it's ultimately bad for you. 0.99

01:18:33.000 Yeah.

01:18:34.000 No, it's...

01:18:35.000 We should consume less meat.

01:18:36.000 Bill Gates saying it with a big pot belly.

01:18:39.000 Yeah.

01:18:39.000 Like, Jesus Christ.

01:18:41.000 No, it's crazy.

01:18:42.000 I mean, I, you know, especially contextually today with the, you look at health statistics, right?

01:18:48.000 Like one in two people are almost obese today.

01:18:51.000 40% of people are obese today.

01:18:53.000 And by the year 2030, half are going to be not just overweight, but clinically obese.

01:18:57.000 Okay.

01:18:58.000 Half of adults today are, have some degree of insulin resistance, right?

01:19:02.000 We know that 90% of adults have some degree of metabolic dysregulation if you factor in things like waist circumference, low HDL, triglycerides, and things like that.

01:19:13.000 And so for a health expert today to demonize any whole food, any whole food to me is just absurd and actually really unethical.

01:19:25.000 And red meat is, you know, again and again it comes up.

01:19:37.000 I mean, iron deficiency anemia is still a major global health problem, last I checked, and red meat is the ultimate iron supplement.

01:19:46.000 It's highly bioavailable.

01:19:47.000 It provides zinc.

01:19:47.000 It provides creatine.

01:19:49.000 It provides carnosine, carnitine, all these really incredible and valuable micronutrients.

01:19:54.000 And again, when talking about steak, that's where 3% of the saturated fat is.

01:19:58.000 So what's wrong with steak?

01:19:59.000 What's the big problem with it from a health standpoint?

01:20:01.000 I don't think there is any, to be honest.

01:20:03.000 And yet there's people that will tell you, you need to eat less.

01:20:06.000 Yeah.

01:20:07.000 Which is so strange.

01:20:09.000 Well, our beef consumption actually over the past few decades has declined.

01:20:13.000 Our chicken consumption has gone up, but we are eating less red meat.

01:20:16.000 And look at our health is trending worse and worse and worse.

01:20:20.000 Today, your average American is largely on a plant-based diet.

01:20:24.000 It's a plant-based diet of ultra...

01:20:25.000 It's not a whole foods plant-based diet.

01:20:27.000 I'll concede that.

01:20:28.000 It's a largely ultra-processed plant-based...

01:20:30.000 Bread and ketchup.

01:20:31.000 Yeah.

01:20:32.000 Yeah.

01:20:32.000 But, I mean, but it really is a huge problem.

01:20:38.000 And, you know, foods like eggs.

01:20:40.000 I mean, you know, there was this, like, thing where for a while it was like all animal source foods are bad, right?

01:20:48.000 The antidote to disease is to...

01:20:54.000 Shun all animal-sourced foods, right?

01:20:55.000 But then we started to see, oh, wait a minute, fish is actually associated with better health outcomes.

01:21:00.000 So let's eat more fish.

01:21:02.000 And then the data came out showing us that, oh, wait a minute, cholesterol, this nutrient that we've demonized for decades, actually has no negative downside, no downside with regard to cardiovascular risk.

01:21:13.000 For the vast majority of people consuming dietary cholesterol, very little impact on serum cholesterol, right?

01:21:19.000 And then dairy.

01:21:20.000 Turns out that, oh my god, wait a minute.

01:21:22.000 It's not low-fat and reduced-fat dairy that seems to be associated with better health.

01:21:26.000 It's full-fat dairy that seems to be associated with better health.

01:21:29.000 What the hell?

01:21:30.000 Right?

01:21:31.000 And so I think, I mean, I do think it's just a matter of time before we realize that there is a lot of good to be gained from foods like red meat.

01:21:43.000 But, you know, there's so much politicization Yeah.

01:21:47.000 And then people cite things like the China study, which is very flawed.

01:21:52.000 Yeah.

01:21:53.000 I mean, it's a narrative.

01:21:54.000 It's just a narrative.

01:21:56.000 And, yeah.

01:21:59.000 I mean, I think, like, insofar as red meat is...

01:22:03.000 It's highly nutrient-dense.

01:22:04.000 It's very satiating.

01:22:05.000 It's, I mean, the perfect antidote to boxed mac and cheese.

01:22:10.000 I mean, how many people for dinner in this country are eating boxed mac and cheese for dinner?

01:22:13.000 Noodles with butter, you know?

01:22:14.000 Or margarine, worse.

01:22:16.000 And I just think it's a huge shame.

01:22:19.000 And I grew up in a household that was largely...

01:22:24.000 You know, my mother had a bias towards vegetarianism.

01:22:28.000 She wasn't a vegetarian.

01:22:28.000 She ate chicken.

01:22:29.000 She ate occasionally fish.

01:22:30.000 But she was very concerned about heart disease.

01:22:33.000 And so she, you know, growing up, we were, like, she never ate, I never saw her eat red meat.

01:22:38.000 And she never ate any eggs.

01:22:39.000 And when she served me my first egg when I was a child, she served me it with a warning to not eat these with any significant frequency because they have the potential to clog your arteries.

01:22:50.000 Wow.

01:22:51.000 Yeah, she was psyopped. 1.00

01:22:52.000 She bought into, you know, the advice at the time.

01:22:56.000 She didn't have the internet.

01:22:57.000 She wasn't, you know, online.

01:22:59.000 But she, whatever the magazines or the TV, you know, the nightly news would share about healthy eating, and certainly whatever the marketing, you know, in the supermarket, as she was pushing her shopping cart around the supermarket aisle, anything with a red Heart Healthy logo on it would end up in my shopping cart at some point,

01:23:14.000 make its way through my kitchen.

01:23:16.000 And so I grew up on a diet that was largely ultra-processed and mainly, you know, I was encouraged to eat a low cholesterol, low saturated fat diet.

01:23:28.000 I mean, I grew up consuming margarine.

01:23:30.000 And I remember the big plastic tub of corn oil that we always had out by the stove.

01:23:34.000 Yep.

01:23:35.000 Crazy.

01:23:36.000 Crazy.

01:23:37.000 Yeah. 0.82

01:23:37.000 Crazy they trick people into taking that stuff. 0.82

01:23:40.000 And that's also when you see, like, instances of Alzheimer's kick in.

01:23:44.000 Like, a lot of that starts to happen right when ultra-processed foods get introduced into the American diet.

01:23:50.000 You see an uptick in Alzheimer's.

01:23:51.000 Yeah.

01:23:52.000 Well, we now have data.

01:23:53.000 So, like, even when I wrote my first book, Genius Foods, This data hadn't even yet come out yet, but we now see for every 10% increment in ultra-processed food consumption, there's a 25% higher risk of developing Alzheimer's disease.

01:24:08.000 Crazy.

01:24:09.000 Yeah.

01:24:09.000 Crazy.

01:24:11.000 It's like...

01:24:12.000 It's the craziest scam to ever get pulled off that the commonly known foods that people have eaten for eternity, forever...

01:24:22.000 Are the ones that are the problem.

01:24:24.000 And that these ultra-processed foods that have recently been introduced into the American diet, those are the things that you should gravitate towards.

01:24:35.000 And you still have these personas on social media, credentialed social media personas going to bat for them.

01:24:43.000 Yeah.

01:24:44.000 Acting as apologists.

01:24:45.000 And getting paid.

01:24:46.000 And getting paid.

01:24:46.000 And getting paid, which is the dark part of it.

01:24:48.000 It's like...

01:24:49.000 They are committing a crime against humans, an information crime against humans, and it will result in those people taking choices that are negatively going to affect their life.

01:25:03.000 100%.

01:25:04.000 There was an umbrella review just published.

01:25:06.000 People can look it up.

01:25:07.000 Ultra-processed food consumption linked to 32 negative health outcomes.

01:25:11.000 In this review, they looked at all of the available research linking ultra-processed foods to negative health outcomes.

01:25:17.000 They couldn't find one single benefit of ultra-processed food consumption.

01:25:21.000 It was all bad.

01:25:24.000 And, again, I think it goes back to the fact that these foods are, you know, we tend to overconsume them, and they're a route of ingestion for these, you know, for these forever chemicals and the like.

01:25:44.000 Yeah, it's just not good.

01:25:45.000 They drive obesity.

01:25:46.000 They drive insulin resistance when consumed en masse.

01:25:49.000 I'm not saying that you can't consume any.

01:25:51.000 I think it's important to be a pragmatist.

01:25:53.000 And it's not like my diet is 100% free of ultra-processed foods.

01:25:58.000 We consume too many today.

01:26:00.000 And I think part of that has to do with the fact that we're not adequately taught.

01:26:04.000 It's never informed consent.

01:26:05.000 We're not adequately taught how these foods influence behavior.

01:26:11.000 And yeah, it's very unfortunate.

01:26:14.000 Well, I think people are more aware of it now, fortunately, because of people like you that are spreading this information and people hear podcasts and they get like an adjusted sense of why they've been misinformed.

01:26:25.000 And that's a new thing, you know, and the ability to access information from unofficial sources now.

01:26:34.000 It turns out to be real information and very beneficial.

01:26:37.000 That's a new thing.

01:26:39.000 And so in that sense, we're lucky.

01:26:41.000 But boy, is it an uphill slodge.

01:26:43.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:26:44.000 You know, there's so much shit you have to deal with. 1.00

01:26:47.000 And so many people are just so... 0.99

01:26:49.000 Their informed idea is so incorrect that in order to shift that, it takes so much effort.

01:26:58.000 And then they have to deal with all the people around them.

01:27:00.000 Like, oh my god, cholesterol.

01:27:02.000 Oh my god, you're gonna get this and that.

01:27:05.000 You're gonna have a heart attack.

01:27:06.000 You're gonna have a heart attack.

01:27:07.000 Like, what?

01:27:07.000 Yeah.

01:27:09.000 I know.

01:27:09.000 There's so many competing voices and misinformation out there on social media and fear-mongering today.

01:27:16.000 I mean, fear-mongering with regard to animal source foods, which I think is a problem.

01:27:20.000 I mean, as I've said, I'm not a carnivore dieter.

01:27:24.000 I think it's just, yeah, it's really insane that today anybody would fear-monger, you know, Any sort of whole food.

01:27:34.000 And I think that really, you know, like I used to be more interested in what's the appropriate, for example, ratio of carbs and fats to one's diet for optimal health.

01:27:43.000 And I really do think it's, you know, for most people, the big lever, dietarily speaking, is to reduce your consumption of these kinds of foods.

01:27:53.000 What are essentially vending machine foods?

01:27:56.000 Things you can just sit on a shelf forever and still be edible.

01:27:58.000 Yeah.

01:27:59.000 And there are other tools.

01:28:00.000 You know, I think intermittent fasting is something that a lot of people are talking about today.

01:28:04.000 I think that's like, you know, there's nothing magic about it, but that can be used as a tool.

01:28:07.000 There are lots of tools at people's disposal, and it frustrates me sometimes on social media where you see, you know, people, especially those in the so-called evidence-based community, that get so down on what they're simply not up on.

01:28:20.000 They tend to write these tools off as being trivial or they'll even talk disparagingly about them.

01:28:31.000 I think whatever tool is at your disposal that you have the ability to use today, I think that's a great thing.

01:28:40.000 The more awareness we have, the better.

01:28:45.000 So for your documentary, when you're discussing the causes and what you can do to sort of mitigate the effects of these things, what's the primary concern and when does some...

01:29:03.000 So you say this is a disease that starts to show itself in middle age or begins, and then by the time you see the symptoms, you're in late stage.

01:29:12.000 Yeah.

01:29:13.000 So it's by the time you present and you're diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, I think that it's irreversible at that point.

01:29:23.000 So I think the sooner you can get a handle on your risk factors, you know, some of which include nutrition, but also social isolation is a risk factor.

01:29:35.000 That's interesting.

01:29:37.000 Yeah.

01:29:37.000 And what is it about that that causes it to become a risk factor?

01:29:41.000 Well, I mean, there's that 80-year-long ongoing study at Harvard, the study of human development that found that loneliness is a toxin on par with smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol.

01:29:52.000 And, you know, I think humans are, first and foremost, we're social beings.

01:29:57.000 That's one of the reasons why, you know, a human neonate is born half-baked. 0.99

01:30:01.000 I mean, we continue our development in the presence of others.

01:30:04.000 You know, they call it the fourth trimester.

01:30:07.000 Relative to other animals in the animal kingdom, a human is born with zero capacity to survive.

01:30:13.000 You know, we need those around us.

01:30:16.000 And so I think it's just hardwired into who we are as a species, that we are social beings.

01:30:21.000 And today, whether it's attributed to, you know, living in cities and remote work or social media, It's taking a huge toll on us from the standpoint of mental health, and that creates downstream biochemical consequences.

01:30:34.000 I mean, this is not just an emotional phenomenon.

01:30:37.000 This is something that actually has a real-life health impact.

01:30:42.000 What about exercise in terms of like seeing people who develop Alzheimer's or dementia?

01:30:51.000 How many of those people are sedentary and how many people develop it that are avid exercise enthusiasts?

01:30:58.000 That's a great question.

01:30:59.000 I mean, exercise is medicine when it comes to the brain.

01:31:02.000 With regard to the epidemiology of exercise and dementia risk, I don't think that's clear because also as people get older, they tend to become more sedentary.

01:31:15.000 But we do know that exercise does have a profound impact, even just light activity.

01:31:20.000 But is there an instance or like a measurable decrease in instances of people that have dementia and Alzheimer's with people that are enthusiasts that have never stopped exercising, like people that are like 70-year-old marathon runners?

01:31:34.000 Yeah.

01:31:35.000 I mean, people with greater cardio-respiratory fitness, particularly in midlife, seem to have reduced risk in late life for an Alzheimer's diagnosis.

01:31:43.000 Because again, it's about being healthy in midlife that really seems to move the needle.

01:31:48.000 So midlife obesity is associated with increased risk for Alzheimer's disease down the line.

01:31:54.000 Being actually heavier in late life is associated with lower risk because people tend to become less well-nourished as they get older.

01:32:04.000 So the obesity and Alzheimer's disease connection is actually quite interesting.

01:32:07.000 So midlife obesity is associated with With increased risk for Alzheimer's disease, but people who are of heavier weight as opposed to more frail in late life seem to be protected.

01:32:18.000 Interesting.

01:32:18.000 Yeah.

01:32:19.000 So just by virtue of one of the things I've always said about heavy people is if boy if you can get that person to lose weight They're gonna be so strong because they've been carrying around all this weight all the time.

01:32:30.000 Yeah, you know like my friend Ralphie Mae Ralphie was How big do you think Ralphie was his heyday?

01:32:40.000 455?

01:32:42.000 Easy, right?

01:32:43.000 Maybe 500 pounds.

01:32:45.000 Easy over 400 pounds.

01:32:48.000 Wow.

01:32:49.000 The guy had these massive legs.

01:32:50.000 I was like, Ralphie, if you could just lose weight, you'd be kicking holes through people. 1.00

01:32:56.000 Like, your legs are fucking machines. 1.00

01:32:58.000 They're carrying you upstairs. 1.00

01:33:00.000 I couldn't walk up those stairs.

01:33:04.000 Whoa! 0.71

01:33:04.000 What? 0.71

01:33:05.000 Ralphie Mae used to weigh over 800 pounds? 1.00

01:33:07.000 I don't know if that's true.

01:33:09.000 Ralphie might have exaggerated that.

01:33:10.000 He lost 350 when he did this.

01:33:13.000 That's like worthy of a TLC show.

01:33:14.000 Or down to 350. He got down to 350. Interesting.

01:33:18.000 He had a couple of gastric bypasses.

01:33:21.000 He ate through them.

01:33:22.000 Whoa.

01:33:22.000 Yeah, he had a real problem.

01:33:24.000 Oh my god.

01:33:24.000 He's not with us anymore.

01:33:25.000 I mean, a lot of this research is done using the BMI, which we know is imperfect.

01:33:30.000 Yeah, I'm obese.

01:33:31.000 Yeah, according to the BMI, right?

01:33:32.000 Yeah.

01:33:33.000 But you're obviously not.

01:33:33.000 I have 10% body fat and I'm obese.

01:33:35.000 That's crazy.

01:33:36.000 Yeah, I mean, it's obviously a shitty diagnostic tool, but as a screening tool, that's how they do a lot of this research.

01:33:42.000 So people with higher BMI and late life seem to have a degree of protection.

01:33:46.000 Yeah.

01:33:47.000 But that's because frailty is the worst thing.

01:33:49.000 Right.

01:33:50.000 Particularly sarcopenic obesity.

01:33:54.000 So you're fat, but you're under-muscled.

01:33:56.000 And so this is one of the reasons why being well-muscled is so important from the standpoint of longevity.

01:34:03.000 And that's where protein plays a role.

01:34:05.000 Obviously, resistance training plays a really important role.

01:34:08.000 But the key is to make sure in midlife...

01:34:11.000 Yeah.

01:34:12.000 That you're healthy.

01:34:13.000 Midlife healthy and fit and then later in life you just have to make sure you don't get frail.

01:34:19.000 Yeah, and at a certain point you could ride the wave of the health that you've, you know, the robustness that you've cultivated in midlife.

01:34:26.000 But that's why we should, the earlier you start with these dietary and lifestyle principles and adopting them and living them, the better.

01:34:34.000 Yeah, that's one of the craziest statistics that significant muscle mass has a reduced impact on all-cause mortality.

01:34:41.000 Having significant muscle mass.

01:34:43.000 Yeah, having like real strong muscles.

01:34:45.000 You'll notice like significant decrease in all-cause mortality.

01:34:48.000 Oh, yeah.

01:34:50.000 But it just makes sense because you're stronger.

01:34:52.000 You're healthier.

01:34:52.000 Your body's more vital.

01:34:53.000 It's more robust.

01:34:54.000 It can deal with all kinds of things because it's gone through significant stressors on a daily basis in order to achieve this muscle, right?

01:35:02.000 So you're forcing your body to work.

01:35:04.000 You're forcing your body to stay strong.

01:35:05.000 You reduce the effects of atrophy and all the confounding effects.

01:35:10.000 Yeah.

01:35:11.000 I mean, your muscles produce BDNF, which is brain-derived neurotrophic factor, which is like a miracle-grow protein for the brain.

01:35:17.000 It helps to promote the growth of new neurons.

01:35:20.000 It encourages the survival of your existing neurons.

01:35:23.000 It's a compound that's produced in your muscles and passes its way across the blood-brain barrier.

01:35:28.000 And we also know that your muscles are the primary site of glucose disposal.

01:35:33.000 You store sugar in your muscles.

01:35:35.000 Your muscles are, obviously, for mobility, super important, improving insulin sensitivity.

01:35:41.000 There's no better way to cultivate insulin sensitivity than to resistance train regularly.

01:35:47.000 And we see, again, that insulin resistance is related to glucose hypometabolism in the brain, which is one of the hallmarks of Alzheimer's disease.

01:35:56.000 Another thing they've found is that exercise training with weights, specifically strength training, is one of the best methods to reduce anxiety.

01:36:05.000 It's great.

01:36:06.000 Yeah.

01:36:08.000 There's lots of evidence now, meta-analyses even, Showing us whether it's resistance training, I mean, cardiovascular, it's such an important tool for brain health.

01:36:18.000 And that's part of the reason why I love fitness.

01:36:21.000 And most of it is due to what fitness does for my brain, my brain health, my mental health.

01:36:28.000 Me too.

01:36:29.000 I can't imagine.

01:36:30.000 I mean, I've taken a couple of days off, just a couple of days off, which is like the most I ever take. 0.69

01:36:34.000 And by the end of the second day, I'm like, Jesus, I feel fucking weird.

01:36:38.000 Yeah. 0.58

01:36:39.000 I feel like I have to do something or my body's going to fall apart.

01:36:42.000 I just feel gross.

01:36:44.000 I feel anxious.

01:36:47.000 Anxiety is coming on.

01:36:48.000 I just don't feel good.

01:36:50.000 And then I work out and I'm like, huh, I'm okay.

01:36:52.000 Yeah.

01:36:52.000 I'm fine.

01:36:53.000 Totally.

01:36:54.000 It's like your body telling you.

01:36:57.000 You want to exist in a robust state.

01:37:03.000 There's only one way.

01:37:05.000 There's only one way.

01:37:05.000 You have to work out.

01:37:06.000 It's the only way.

01:37:08.000 You're not going to be strong unless you work out. 0.97

01:37:11.000 There's certain genetic factors, certain people that have really great genes and they're strong and they don't do fucking anything. 0.98

01:37:18.000 It's crazy. 0.97

01:37:19.000 But they would be better off if they worked out.

01:37:21.000 They would be healthier.

01:37:22.000 Think about how crazy it is that like older generation... 1.00

01:37:24.000 Because I feel like we're now...

01:37:25.000 We obviously can appreciate this.

01:37:28.000 And younger generations, we have gyms.

01:37:31.000 I think...

01:37:31.000 Was it like Arnold Schwarzenegger that helped popularize the gym?

01:37:34.000 Like that gym culture?

01:37:36.000 Probably.

01:37:36.000 Maybe.

01:37:38.000 But like my mom's...

01:37:39.000 Yeah.

01:37:40.000 But like my mom's generation... 1.00

01:37:42.000 There was no, I mean, nobody was resistance training for fun, certainly not women, right? 1.00

01:37:46.000 And they were the targets of like, they were the bullseye of precisely that messaging, avoid cholesterol, avoid saturated fat, you know, low-fat this, low-fat that.

01:37:58.000 And they weren't working out.

01:38:00.000 And it's really sad when you look around and you see that generation, you know, and their health.

01:38:06.000 Yeah, and the differences between, I mean, there's been a bunch of internet memes about this, the difference between like an 80-year-old woman who regularly strength trains and has been doing it her whole life and another 80-year-old woman who's in a chair, you know, and she's rolling around on a scooter because she can't walk right anymore.

01:38:23.000 Yeah.

01:38:24.000 Yeah, it's really sad.

01:38:26.000 So, I mean, I think we're definitely making progress.

01:38:28.000 I think that's one of the upsides of the wellness industry and this, I think, this fervor surrounding wellness and whether it's group workouts or gym culture.

01:38:40.000 I think it's amazing that people across the age spectrum now have embraced fitness as a lifestyle.

01:38:46.000 And women are lifting weights, and I think that's just incredible. 1.00

01:38:49.000 How bad is tap water?

01:38:52.000 I mean, I'll say that I grew up drinking tap water.

01:38:55.000 I grew up in New York City.

01:38:56.000 As did I. Yeah.

01:38:57.000 Grew up drinking it.

01:38:58.000 Garden hoses.

01:38:59.000 Yeah.

01:39:00.000 I think...

01:39:01.000 Yeah, same.

01:39:02.000 I think you'd be well-suited filtering your water.

01:39:08.000 Because also, I mean...

01:39:09.000 So one of these compounds that has been directly linked to Parkinsonism that Dr. Ray Dorsey from University of Rochester has published on...

01:39:20.000 It's called trichloroethylene, and it's still being used in dry cleaning today, but it was used until the 70s for certain medical applications.

01:39:29.000 It was used as an anesthetic for pregnant women.

01:39:32.000 It was used to decaffeinate coffee.

01:39:33.000 It was used to extract vegetable oils.

01:39:37.000 Readily infiltrates groundwater.

01:39:39.000 And about 30%, I believe, of groundwater in the United States is still contaminated with this compound, trichloroethylene.

01:39:46.000 And we know that there are traces of pharmaceuticals and various compounds in tap water that...

01:39:54.000 I think, you know, the dose makes the poison to some degree.

01:39:58.000 So now and then I think it's probably fine.

01:40:00.000 But I do think, you know, filtering your water, running it through a charcoal filter, maybe even a reverse osmosis purifier is probably beneficial.

01:40:09.000 Does that get the fluoride out?

01:40:11.000 A reverse osmosis purifier does, yeah.

01:40:13.000 But not a charcoal filter?

01:40:14.000 No.

01:40:15.000 There are some.

01:40:15.000 There's one brand, I don't remember the name, but there are some pitcher filters that do claim to remove fluoride, but...

01:40:24.000 Does the reverse osmosis remove the minerals from the water as well, though?

01:40:28.000 Yeah, it removes everything.

01:40:29.000 Oh, that's not good.

01:40:31.000 Yeah.

01:40:31.000 So you need minerals.

01:40:32.000 You do need minerals.

01:40:33.000 What is hard, when you get hard water from a well, you get that white stuff? 0.96

01:40:37.000 Too much.

01:40:38.000 What is that?

01:40:39.000 Too many, yeah, too many minerals.

01:40:41.000 Is that bad for you?

01:40:42.000 You know, I don't know.

01:40:44.000 Probably.

01:40:44.000 I mean, it's probably, you know, in some way if that's all you're drinking and who knows what else that water has been able to leach through the pipes or what have you.

01:40:54.000 Speaking of which, have you seen the recent study that came out, it was very recent, on these dishwashing pods? 0.98

01:41:05.000 Damn. 0.99

01:41:06.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:41:06.000 No. 1.00

01:41:07.000 Dishwasher pods are putting forever chemicals all over your glasses and plates.

01:41:13.000 Can you find that?

01:41:14.000 See if you can find that?

01:41:15.000 I think it just came out very recently.

01:41:19.000 This is not recent.

01:41:21.000 Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids.

01:41:25.000 Yeah.

01:41:26.000 Is that what you're talking about?

01:41:27.000 I think it's one of them, yeah.

01:41:28.000 When was this study published?

01:41:30.000 December 22. 22. There was something that I read, I believe I read yesterday, but that they're starting to seriously consider.

01:41:41.000 Health news.

01:41:44.000 Okay.

01:41:44.000 So you know what one of the major problems with endocrine disruptors are, Joe?

01:41:49.000 What?

01:41:50.000 Is that in the field of toxicology, there's this maxim that the dose makes the poison.

01:41:56.000 Right.

01:41:56.000 Right?

01:41:58.000 That we establish what's called the no observed adverse effect level for a given compound, and then we assume that below that, exposure is safe, right?

01:42:08.000 And so that's why you always hear that exposure to these compounds is fine because the dose makes the poison, and they're very small in terms of the doses that we're being exposed to.

01:42:17.000 But the problem with endocrine disruptors, and this is not fully appreciated, I think, by the vast majority of people, Is that unlike most compounds which follow a linear dose response where, you know, you consume too much water at a certain point fast enough and it'll kill you,

01:42:33.000 but below that, you're fine.

01:42:36.000 A lot of these endocrine disrupting compounds have what's called a non-monotonic dose response.

01:42:42.000 So a non-monotonic dose response means that at a low level, you might have effects, and you might not have effects for a period above that dose, and then you might have toxic effects at a much higher dose.

01:42:56.000 You might have completely different effects at a low dose.

01:42:59.000 So low dose toxicity, that's the issue.

01:43:01.000 And hormesis is a perfect example of this working in our favor, and it's a perfect example of a non-monotonic dose response that we actually want.

01:43:09.000 Like broccoli sprouts.

01:43:10.000 Like broccoli sprouts, yeah.

01:43:12.000 So at a very low dose, broccoli sprouts, this compound sulforaphane, produced by broccoli sprouts, creates a beneficial effect in the body, a response, where it causes our livers to increase production of glutathione, and we seem to have this protective,

01:43:27.000 adaptive response to it, right?

01:43:28.000 But if you were to consume too much sulforaphane, it would kill you, right?

01:43:33.000 And so one of the issues with these compounds like phthalates and other endocrine disruptors, but phthalates in particular, Is that they have what's called a non-monotonic dose response, which makes them really difficult to study.

01:43:44.000 And it makes guidelines surrounding them really tricky.

01:43:49.000 And so the idea is that you might experience effects due to a low dose exposure that aren't necessarily killing you, right?

01:43:59.000 But that are still deemed safe, you know?

01:44:03.000 So it's not quite a linear dose response.

01:44:06.000 It can be, you know, a U-shaped curve, for example.

01:44:11.000 And so that's a big issue.

01:44:13.000 It makes these chemicals hard to study.

01:44:17.000 And that's one of the major concerns within the field of toxicology surrounding these kinds of compounds.

01:44:23.000 The hermetic effect is very interesting, right?

01:44:25.000 Because something can be bad for you in large doses, but beneficial in small doses.

01:44:32.000 And like this is similar to like what's going on with cold plunges and saunas as well, right?

01:44:37.000 Like your body has a response to this thing that...

01:44:40.000 You stay in that cold water for a long time, it will kill you.

01:44:43.000 You stay in that sauna for a long time, it will kill you.

01:44:46.000 But if you can get a healthy dose over a determined period of time and you build up to whatever that is, then you have these great benefits.

01:44:54.000 Yeah.

01:44:55.000 Where your body has to go through that stress and then responds to that stress and creates a more robust body.

01:45:01.000 Exactly.

01:45:02.000 So you have an effect at various dosing.

01:45:07.000 I think?

01:45:23.000 I don't necessarily, you know, it's not so clear that a low dose is necessarily safer than a high dose.

01:45:29.000 And that's one of the problems.

01:45:31.000 That's why I think you're better off, you know, when people say that, oh, well, the level of phthalates in these ultra-processed foods, they're in the parts per billion.

01:45:40.000 You know, we don't actually know how those, you know, how those, even as minute as they are, doses to that degree are affecting us.

01:45:47.000 You know, in the short term, certainly not the long term, but also, you know, when combined with all of the other exposures that your average person, you know, incurs over a day-to-day basis, it's just, yeah, it's a looming question mark.

01:46:02.000 And so that's why I think it's better to be safe than sorry and practice the precautionary principle and to reduce your exposure when you can.

01:46:09.000 So for pretty much anyone listening to this that's concerned about Alzheimer's and any form of degeneration, whether it's Lewy body or any kind of dementia, so first of all, be healthy, be fit,

01:46:25.000 stop eating processed foods, start exercising, limit your exposure to whatever these chemicals are, whether they're You know, all the endocrine disruptors.

01:46:38.000 What else can someone do?

01:46:40.000 Yeah, air pollution.

01:46:41.000 Air pollution.

01:46:42.000 How much of a factor is the air pollution?

01:46:45.000 It's a big factor.

01:46:46.000 And is it brake dust?

01:46:48.000 Is it...

01:46:48.000 Yeah.

01:46:49.000 So this is known as fine particulate matter, PM 2.5.

01:46:54.000 And we're now starting...

01:46:55.000 I mean, there have been studies in Mexico City where they've looked at the brains of cadavers across the age spectrum.

01:47:01.000 And even in children, they see pathology that looks a lot like Alzheimer's disease.

01:47:15.000 I'm sorry to interrupt you, but that's showing that electric cars, unfortunately, produce more of that.

01:47:21.000 In the production of electric cars or just in the brakes?

01:47:24.000 Yeah, in the brakes because they're heavier.

01:47:26.000 Whoa.

01:47:26.000 Because it's a heavier vehicle and there's more of that.

01:47:30.000 And I wondered like if they included Teslas in those because I have a Tesla and it has regenerative braking, right?

01:47:37.000 So what that means is like it doesn't coast.

01:47:40.000 As I'm driving, so if I'm driving 60 miles an hour and I see up ahead there is a stoplight that just turned yellow, and I know it's going to turn red, and I have a few hundred yards, I just let off the gas and my car slows down.

01:47:56.000 It slows down considerably to the point where I barely have to use the brakes.

01:48:00.000 So a lot of people, when they talk about driving Teslas, they talk about one-foot driving.

01:48:05.000 Because you have to use the brakes.

01:48:07.000 You have to stop short or something's going on.

01:48:09.000 But for the most part, if you know how the vehicle works, you rarely touch the brakes.

01:48:16.000 It slows down a lot when it comes near a red light.

01:48:19.000 As you come close to red light, let off the gas, it slows down a lot.

01:48:24.000 Wow.

01:48:25.000 Yeah, I don't have an electric car, and that's shocking.

01:48:27.000 I know that the production, you know, has...

01:48:31.000 There's obviously an environmental toll to the production of these vehicles.

01:48:36.000 What is this?

01:48:37.000 Generally produce less brake dust than gas-powered cars, but that's just Teslas.

01:48:42.000 My wife has a Porsche that doesn't have regenerative braking, and it's an electric car.

01:48:47.000 Regenerative braking converts a vehicle's kinetic engine.

01:48:50.000 You're right, but what about the ones that show that electric cars...

01:48:54.000 Produce more brake dust.

01:48:58.000 EVs can produce more tire dust because they're heavier and have more torque, which can cause them to wear out tires faster.

01:49:05.000 I think that what they were saying in the one study that I read, though, was that with many of them, because I don't think most electric cars use the regenerative braking aspect.

01:49:17.000 I don't think that's as common.

01:49:19.000 It's just wild to me that, I mean, it's like hubris.

01:49:22.000 You know, we think, one day we think we're doing good for the environment, and then the next day, you know, we find out that there are all of these downstream...

01:49:29.000 It's kind of like, you know, people don't, I think, can't wrap their head around the fact that plant production actually leads to crop death.

01:49:37.000 You know, critters and moles and moles on, but it's just like works.

01:49:42.000 If you're partaking in modern life today, there is blood on your hands and I don't think there's any way to get around it.

01:49:49.000 You know, you're leaving a footprint.

01:49:51.000 And I actually think that the focus on greenhouse gas emissions is super important, but I think it's unfortunately taken the focus away from corporations who Seem to get a hall pass when it comes to releasing these kinds of volatile organic compounds and these forever chemicals into the environment.

01:50:09.000 I think that's a real major environmental concern that not enough people are talking about.

01:50:12.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:50:13.000 We're breathing it in.

01:50:14.000 I mean, the nose is the front door to the brain.

01:50:16.000 And that's why I think air pollution, you know, is now being linked to Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, and the like.

01:50:22.000 And it's really concerning.

01:50:24.000 So, the uptick in highly polluted environments like Mexico City and the like, how much of an effect does that have statistically?

01:50:35.000 I mean, the data that I've seen, proportionally, I'm not sure, but I know that it's significant, and it depends, obviously, on parts of the world.

01:50:44.000 And more research needs to be done because, obviously, a very polluted...

01:51:00.000 I think we're good to go.

01:51:07.000 I think we're good to go.

01:51:09.000 I think it depends on where you are, and I don't think there's one cause of dementia for every person with dementia.

01:51:16.000 I think there are different causes, but certainly when you look at these studies and you see that they had PM2.5 in their brains, and around the PM2.5, these particles...

01:51:29.000 There's the aggregation of these plaques that we associate with late-onset Alzheimer's disease.

01:51:33.000 I mean, that's startling.

01:51:34.000 So I don't know the proportion, but I do know that it's a significant concern.

01:51:40.000 I don't know if it's, you know, here in the United States, where we have better regulations now.

01:51:47.000 I mean, LA used to be very polluted.

01:51:48.000 It's a lot less so these days, for example.

01:51:50.000 I live in LA. And yet people are still developing Alzheimer's disease, unfortunately, in Southern California.

01:51:57.000 I don't know if that's as big of a contributor in LA, but...

01:52:03.000 Still very polluted, right?

01:52:05.000 I mean, LA is...

01:52:07.000 I mean, relative to a rural area, yeah. 0.99

01:52:09.000 Well, also, not only that, especially in the valley, just the way the topography is, like, it accumulates all the shit in the valley. 0.95

01:52:18.000 Yeah, you see it sometimes, like, on a... 0.97

01:52:20.000 Yeah, it's thick.

01:52:21.000 Yeah.

01:52:22.000 I mean, I have an air purifier in my house.

01:52:25.000 I think it's really important to reduce your exposure.

01:52:31.000 I think an air purifier makes sense.

01:52:34.000 I think making sure that your HVAC system has changed that filter regularly, make sure that it's a good filter.

01:52:39.000 I mean, there are ways to mitigate exposure.

01:52:43.000 You can damp, you can wet dust, as opposed to using a dry duster that just redistributes dust.

01:52:50.000 I mean, dust oftentimes harbors a lot of these chemicals that we're talking about, whether it's trichloroethylene or plastic-related compounds.

01:52:58.000 You want to sequester the dust in a damp cloth, throw that cloth away or wash it.

01:53:03.000 Vacuuming, I think, is really important.

01:53:05.000 Make sure that your home is well-ventilated because homes are now becoming increasingly insulated as a cost-saving measure.

01:53:13.000 Which has led to an increase in exposure to certain volatile organic compounds in the home.

01:53:20.000 So, yeah, I mean, you might not be at risk in your house for exposure to fine particulate matter, per se, but, you know, you're breathing in all this other stuff, which isn't great for you.

01:53:31.000 And so when you set out to do this documentary, were you...

01:53:37.000 Trying to just highlight all the issues we're trying to present cures or potential Mitigating techniques that people can use like what were you trying to do?

01:53:47.000 Yeah, so I wanted to on the one hand Capture what it was that my mom was going through and as an artist.

01:53:54.000 I mean it was an incredibly painful for me and my family and so I felt in many ways that by documenting it It was giving meaning to the whole experience for me, which would otherwise just be purely traumatic.

01:54:10.000 And so I wanted to document what my mom was going through and pay tribute to her and also to pay tribute to the science of dementia prevention, which again, 10 years ago, nobody was talking about.

01:54:25.000 I wouldn't consider it a diet film.

01:54:27.000 There's no magical diet that's proposed.

01:54:30.000 The hope with the film was to unravel a lot of this sort of misinformation that I think we've been doled out over the past few decades with regard to what we should and shouldn't be eating.

01:54:40.000 But there are other factors that are covered.

01:54:43.000 In the documentary, of course.

01:55:04.000 Why we see rates increasing so starkly today.

01:55:07.000 And she talks about how it's unlikely to be genetic due to genetics.

01:55:11.000 It's likely to be due to exposure to whether the standard American food environment or something else.

01:55:20.000 And we also have one of my mentors, Richard Isaacson, who's the Alzheimer's prevention specialist who I was at New York Presbyterian, Weill Cornell, whose work I stumbled upon really early.

01:55:33.000 So it's really to drive home the notion that this condition doesn't begin overnight.

01:55:38.000 You have decades to set yourself down a different path if you simply become aware of the fact that your choices do impact your brain health.

01:55:50.000 And so it's in part informational, but it's also a tribute to...

01:55:58.000 My mom, and it's a tribute to anybody really who's ever experienced dementia, both as a patient or as a caregiver.

01:56:06.000 It's a film that people will find solace in.

01:56:12.000 And yeah, it's really cinematic.

01:56:14.000 It's hard for me to watch, but it's a film that is, I think, really emotional.

01:56:20.000 It's a really intimate look into what dementia is like.

01:56:23.000 And my mom is such a charismatic light, you know?

01:56:28.000 And she's so relatable.

01:56:29.000 And she's young, you know?

01:56:30.000 She's like in her early 60s in the film.

01:56:33.000 And so for anybody who thinks that this is something that, you know, only affects old people, you know, people, grandma, grandpa, I think it's going to shatter a lot of unhelpful misconceptions that people have about these conditions.

01:56:46.000 Was there anything that your mother found or that you found that helped your mother and mitigated some of the symptoms?

01:56:54.000 Exercise definitely helped.

01:56:56.000 I think it slowed the progression of the condition, but it also, in a significant way, lifted her spirits.

01:57:06.000 Because, I mean, we know that exercise is really important for mental health, and it certainly helped with hers.

01:57:15.000 But it also, I mean, there is evidence that exercise, whether Parkinson's disease or Alzheimer's disease, I mean, it's profoundly effective as a, you know, I mean, potentially in terms of slowing the condition, improving symptomology,

01:57:31.000 improving quality of life.

01:57:33.000 And so, yeah, I mean, we got her on an exercise regimen.

01:57:36.000 We hired a trainer.

01:57:39.000 And that was really the first time in her life that my mom ever really took exercise seriously, which is crazy to think about.

01:57:44.000 But yeah, we've got it.

01:57:47.000 Yeah, there's a whole generation that didn't think it was necessary.

01:57:50.000 It's wild to me.

01:57:51.000 I mean, it's such an important part of my life.

01:57:53.000 And it's just so good for you from a metabolic health standpoint, mental health, brain health, cardiovascular health.

01:58:00.000 It's just like...

01:58:01.000 And we've become so sedentary, generally.

01:58:05.000 We have to schedule our activity today.

01:58:10.000 So, yeah, it's not, you know, there is no magic bullet, unfortunately.

01:58:14.000 It's a multifaceted problem, and we don't yet have all the answers, unfortunately, but my intent was to show people, to convince people that, you know, even though...

01:58:28.000 We don't have all the answers.

01:58:29.000 We don't need to sit idly on our hands as we, you know, particularly with the degree of self-harm that your average person is self-imposing on a day-to-day basis with the foods that they're eating, with their lifestyles.

01:58:42.000 Like, we can do things a little bit differently, and the research tends to support that by changing the way that we're doing things, it'll buy us additional years or maybe even decades of cognitive health.

01:58:54.000 Well, that alone, I mean, that's an amazing thing.

01:58:58.000 That's a hope.

01:58:59.000 I mean, what my family went through was awful.

01:59:01.000 I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy.

01:59:03.000 And I think that if there's a way that my work can, you know, affect people and prevent one additional case, I mean, that would be amazing, right?

01:59:14.000 Are there any medications that have promise?

01:59:21.000 Well, there's research now looking at these, like semaglutide, these peptides.

01:59:30.000 Semaglutide for decades was used as a type 2 diabetes medication, and now obviously it's being used for weight loss.

01:59:39.000 And they're now pushing it on children, and people are using it for vanity reasons, which I don't support.

01:59:46.000 But insofar as it can lower blood sugar, they're looking now to see if it reduces risk for the development of Alzheimer's disease.

01:59:57.000 They've already shown that it can reduce risk for cardiovascular events, which I think is great.

02:00:04.000 I mean, if it's a last line of defense for you and you need that medication, I'm happy that we have it.

02:00:08.000 And they've shown that it can reduce cardiovascular events.

02:00:12.000 They're looking now to see if it can reduce risk for Alzheimer's disease.

02:00:16.000 And there have already been a few trials showing that it might improve cognitive function.

02:00:21.000 Now, the reason for that Is that semaglutide actually increases insulin secretion.

02:00:28.000 And this is, I think, just a band-aid.

02:00:31.000 This isn't a fix for the condition.

02:00:33.000 But we've known for a decade now at this point that intranasal insulin can actually improve cognitive function.

02:00:39.000 Because the brain has become essentially insulin resistant.

02:00:41.000 So you're just like hitting it with insulin.

02:00:44.000 And it seems that that can lead to an acute improvement in cognitive function in patients with Alzheimer's disease, I believe.

02:00:51.000 Has anybody ever done it, like, for a performance-enhancing drug?

02:00:56.000 That I don't know, but there are studies.

02:00:58.000 Suzanne Kraft is one of the lead researchers who's published a lot on this over at, I believe, Wake Forest University.

02:01:04.000 Nasal insulin.

02:01:04.000 Intranasal insulin, yeah.

02:01:07.000 Yeah.

02:01:07.000 Squirt.

02:01:08.000 Squirter?

02:01:08.000 Yeah.

02:01:09.000 Wow.

02:01:10.000 Yeah.

02:01:10.000 I mean, for somebody with...

02:01:14.000 Because in the brain of somebody with Alzheimer's disease, glucose metabolism is dramatically constrained.

02:01:20.000 And so you're basically like you're shooting insulin straight up into the brain because whatever goes up your nose is like you bypass the blood-brain barrier.

02:01:30.000 Because you've got these olfactory neurons that extend into the nasal cavity.

02:01:34.000 This is one of the reasons why air pollution is so harmful when we breathe it in through our noses.

02:01:38.000 And one of the reasons why people sniff coke.

02:01:40.000 There you go.

02:01:41.000 So they're blowing insulin up the nose, and they're seeing that that improves cognitive function.

02:01:47.000 And I think they've already...

02:01:49.000 I could be wrong, but I think they've already shown in a phase one and phase two trial that it leads to an improvement in cognitive function in patients with Alzheimer's disease, semaglutide.

02:02:00.000 And so, you know, I think that's potentially...

02:02:05.000 Acute administration of intranasal insulin beneficially affected spatial memory and executive function in healthy, normal-weighted adults.

02:02:14.000 Interesting.

02:02:15.000 While the longer-term application has also improved decorative memory.

02:02:20.000 What is the difference?

02:02:21.000 What's decorative memory, rather?

02:02:24.000 I think it's...

02:02:25.000 I mean, I'm actually not sure.

02:02:27.000 Improved gait.

02:02:29.000 Interesting.

02:02:31.000 They're walking better.

02:02:32.000 Yeah.

02:02:33.000 How weird.

02:02:34.000 Verbal memory.

02:02:35.000 But the thing is, in the brain of somebody with Alzheimer's disease, so one of the reasons why they're calling it type 3 diabetes is because there's insulin deficiency and insulin resistance.

02:02:46.000 So it kind of has the hallmarks of both type 1 and type 2 diabetes.

02:02:51.000 Interesting.

02:02:52.000 Hmm.

02:02:53.000 Memories that are directly accessible to conscious recollection.

02:02:56.000 Okay.

02:02:57.000 Interesting.

02:02:58.000 Facts, data, experiences that are acquired through learning.

02:03:01.000 Retrieval of this information is usually intentional and requires the awareness of the individual.

02:03:06.000 Interesting.

02:03:07.000 Decorative memory.

02:03:08.000 So it seems to, you know, you're basically shooting up the brain with a peptide.

02:03:14.000 Insulin is a peptide that causes it to dramatically, you know, maybe uptake glucose.

02:03:23.000 Insulin's role in the brain is different than its role elsewhere in the body.

02:03:28.000 For example, skeletal muscle, it plays multiple functions in the brain.

02:03:34.000 But yeah, intranasal insulin has been shown in some studies.

02:03:38.000 Who knows?

02:03:39.000 Maybe spraying insulin up into the brain on a chronic basis increases insulin resistance, and then you become dependent on that.

02:03:45.000 So as a last line, maybe it's helpful in some capacity, but I think that's one of the reasons why semaglutide might help for somebody who's already experiencing cognitive decline.

02:04:05.000 But then also, I mean, yeah, I wouldn't...

02:04:09.000 Drugs that are helpful in the setting of somebody who's already been diagnosed, there really isn't much.

02:04:15.000 There isn't much.

02:04:16.000 I mean, there were these drugs that were...

02:04:23.000 We're approved and have recently been essentially abandoned.

02:04:27.000 One of the drugs being aducanumab by Biogen, because they found it to be effective at reducing the plaque in the brain, but it led to, first of all, there were awful side effects.

02:04:36.000 It actually increased, these drugs increased brain atrophy and didn't lead to any significant improvement in cognitive function.

02:04:43.000 So, I mean, those were a big fail.

02:04:45.000 And the drugs prior to these monoclonal antibodies, like aducanumab and the Minimally effective.

02:04:53.000 My mom was on pretty much all of them.

02:04:54.000 They didn't do anything for her.

02:04:56.000 So it's unfortunate.

02:05:00.000 I don't think that drugs really have a fighting chance when it comes to a condition that has taken decades to develop.

02:05:08.000 So the only thing that really seemed to help her was exercise.

02:05:12.000 Exercise helped.

02:05:15.000 Exercise helped.

02:05:17.000 And, you know, it's not like I put her on some crazy diet.

02:05:22.000 I mean, there is really no evidence that any dietary pattern, other than maybe the ketogenic diet...

02:05:29.000 Would serve any purpose.

02:05:31.000 I mean, the ketogenic diet, potentially, particularly earlier on in Alzheimer's disease, might improve certain aspects of quality of life.

02:05:40.000 But it's not a cure and it's a very difficult diet to adhere to.

02:05:44.000 Is this because your brain starts functioning on ketones rather than glucose?

02:05:49.000 So up to 60% of the brain's energy needs can be furnished by ketones.

02:05:53.000 Normally, under fed conditions, your brain is using glucose 100% as a fuel source.

02:06:00.000 But your brain also can use ketones.

02:06:03.000 And it seems to be the case that the brain of somebody with Alzheimer's disease, their ability to generate ATP from glucose is diminished by 50%, but their ability to generate energy from ketones is unperturbed.

02:06:20.000 So you can basically supplement The brain's energy needs with ketone bodies.

02:06:26.000 But when a person develops Alzheimer's disease, their preference for sweet foods increases.

02:06:33.000 They actually develop a sweet tooth, which is thought to be the brain essentially crying out for sugar because it's starving essentially for energy.

02:06:42.000 And so getting somebody with Alzheimer's disease to adhere to a ketogenic diet, incredibly difficult to do I would imagine.

02:06:52.000 Interesting.

02:06:53.000 What about exogenous ketones?

02:06:55.000 I think those might help.

02:06:57.000 There's not good data on exogenous ketones, but there is an FDA-approved medical food.

02:07:04.000 I believe it's called Axona, which is a medium-chain triglyceride-based product.

02:07:08.000 Medium-chain triglycerides are converted by the liver directly to ketones.

02:07:13.000 We're good to go.

02:07:33.000 A pediatrician.

02:07:34.000 She's a neonatal pediatrician named Dr. Mary Newport, who's been an advocate for this research for decades at this point, whose husband, Steve, developed Alzheimer's disease.

02:07:47.000 And knowing what she knew about neonatal nutrition, she started giving him coconut oil before the availability, the widespread availability of MCT oil and these ketone products.

02:07:59.000 And this is an anecdote, but she has written about and reported that when she initially started giving her husband these ketones, he had Alzheimer's disease.

02:08:09.000 She saw a dramatic improvement in his cognitive function.

02:08:13.000 Wow.

02:08:14.000 Like dramatic.

02:08:15.000 She kept giving it to him.

02:08:16.000 Did you say what the dosage was of this coconut oil?

02:08:18.000 Multiple tablespoons a day.

02:08:20.000 But now we've got better options than that.

02:08:23.000 Is that a bad option?

02:08:24.000 Is coconut oil a bad option?

02:08:26.000 It's not bad, but it's not purely...

02:08:29.000 So coconut oil is...

02:08:32.000 There are a few fractions of coconut oil.

02:08:34.000 It's predominantly lauric acid, and then you've got capric acid, caprylic acid.

02:08:38.000 There are all these other components of coconut oil.

02:08:41.000 But now you can buy...

02:08:42.000 I believe the most ketogenic fatty acid that comprises coconut oil is caprylic acid, C8, I believe.

02:08:50.000 And it's just a more potent ketone precursor.

02:08:54.000 This is basically based on anecdote, but at first she started giving him coconut oil, and she reported a significant improvement.

02:09:06.000 But now we have all these other ketone products on the market, like C8, which might play a role.

02:09:12.000 I would love to have more research on this, obviously.

02:09:15.000 But certainly worth a shot.

02:09:18.000 The one caveat I'll say is that it can cause diarrhea when you overconsume this stuff.

02:09:23.000 So just be mindful of that.

02:09:25.000 Be careful, kids.

02:09:26.000 Yeah.

02:09:27.000 Nobody wants that.

02:09:28.000 What other things can be done?

02:09:32.000 Hmm.

02:09:34.000 I mean, you know...

02:09:36.000 What about cold exposure, heat exposure?

02:09:38.000 Does any of that, cold plunge and sauna, have any effects?

02:09:42.000 It obviously has a big effect on dopamine and norepinephrine.

02:09:48.000 There's research out of the University of Finland showing that sauna use is associated with Pretty dramatically reduced risk for Alzheimer's disease.

02:10:00.000 Also stroke, hypertension, cardiovascular disease.

02:10:03.000 All cause mortality.

02:10:04.000 All cause mortality.

02:10:05.000 Yeah.

02:10:06.000 Now that's an observational study, but I think it's potentially more telling that it was a study done in Finland because in Finland, Finland is the sauna capital of the world.

02:10:17.000 There's one sauna on average per household in Finland.

02:10:20.000 And so it kind of removes a bit of the healthy user bias that you might see doing that same study here.

02:10:25.000 You know, people here in the United States, people who regularly use saunas, maybe they're more well-off, they have spa access, you know, they've got fancy gym memberships, or they can afford to have a sauna in their homes.

02:10:38.000 But in Finland, it's like one sauna.

02:10:39.000 It's like a shower.

02:10:40.000 It's like one sauna per house.

02:10:42.000 And in that observational study, they saw consistent health benefits due to regular sauna use.

02:10:48.000 Two to three times a week, I think it was like...

02:10:50.000 I want to say close to 20% reduced risk.

02:10:55.000 Four to seven times a week, 35 to 50% reduced risk.

02:10:59.000 Again, observational, but mechanistically...

02:11:02.000 And saunas, they do get your heart rate going.

02:11:05.000 They do seem to ultimately reduce blood pressure, even though they raise it acutely when you're sitting in a sauna.

02:11:10.000 It's like a workout that you can self-impose while sitting absolutely still.

02:11:15.000 Yeah.

02:11:15.000 Which is amazing.

02:11:16.000 Yeah, it is amazing.

02:11:17.000 Stationary cardio.

02:11:18.000 Stationary cardio.

02:11:19.000 Exactly.

02:11:20.000 It's a great way to put it.

02:11:21.000 And it's good for mental resilience.

02:11:22.000 Yeah.

02:11:23.000 I'm a huge fan.

02:11:25.000 I don't get to do it as often as I would like.

02:11:27.000 And it's also when you sweat, you're releasing...

02:11:29.000 Like, you sweat out phthalates.

02:11:31.000 You know, you release a lot of these chemicals that we're being exposed to on a daily basis through your sweat.

02:11:36.000 You poop them out.

02:11:37.000 You pee them out.

02:11:38.000 And so I think it's a really great health modality.

02:11:43.000 I mean, it's not...

02:11:43.000 We don't yet know for sure that it's causally related to, you know, to...

02:11:48.000 Alzheimer's prevention, but I mean, I would assume that there's a real effect happening there.

02:11:56.000 When you look at all of the different things that are available today to improve your health, when you look at lifestyle choices, dietary choices, exercise choices, is there a way,

02:12:12.000 like if a person's listening to this, what's the best step forward?

02:12:17.000 If you're listening to this, you know what?

02:12:19.000 I'm making a choice.

02:12:22.000 My life is...

02:12:23.000 A disaster. 1.00

02:12:24.000 I eat like shit. 1.00

02:12:25.000 I'm sedentary. 1.00

02:12:27.000 Yeah.

02:12:29.000 How do I jump in?

02:12:30.000 How do I jump in?

02:12:32.000 Well, I think you don't want to break off more than you can chew.

02:12:35.000 I think that's a big mistake that people make.

02:12:38.000 You want to try to adopt one new habit at a time.

02:12:40.000 And after that habit cements, then you can try adding in another habit.

02:12:45.000 But for some people, it might be as simple as Drinking a glass of water before your first cup of coffee in the morning.

02:12:52.000 You know, just like hydrating yourself before that first cup of coffee.

02:12:55.000 And then once you start doing that, maybe start to look at breakfast.

02:12:59.000 You know, breakfast, there's all this data now coming out showing us that...

02:13:04.000 I used to think...

02:13:04.000 And this is an area where my thinking has evolved.

02:13:06.000 I used to think that breakfast was...

02:13:08.000 Non-essential, some like, you know, that the later in the day we can push our first meal, the better.

02:13:14.000 You know, we would get some kind of like autophagy brownie point or something like that.

02:13:18.000 But actually the data has come out showing us that when we eat a protein-rich breakfast first thing in the morning, and we consistently eat that every day, it does a really good job at regulating our hunger levels throughout the day.

02:13:29.000 We subsequently, when we eat a high-protein breakfast, we eat fewer calories over the subsequent 24 hours.

02:13:35.000 And I think that's really important.

02:13:38.000 I mean, how many people today start their days with a, you know, coffee drink from, you know...

02:13:43.000 And then maybe a bowl of cereal.

02:13:44.000 Yeah.

02:13:45.000 It's like starting your morning with dessert.

02:13:47.000 Right.

02:13:48.000 That's how so many people start their mornings today, right?

02:13:50.000 A bowl of sugar-sweetened cereal, coffee with sugar, and...

02:13:56.000 Fruit juice, you know?

02:13:57.000 Yeah.

02:13:58.000 And it's a...

02:13:59.000 I mean, you're setting yourself up for hunger dysregulation.

02:14:05.000 It's just no bueno.

02:14:06.000 Stress, you know?

02:14:08.000 And so try starting your day with a protein-rich breakfast.

02:14:13.000 Try to hit 30, 40, maybe even 50 grams of protein with your first meal of the day.

02:14:17.000 It's a great way to assuage your hunger to make sure that you're going to be Come lunchtime, you're not going to be up against the wall looking for the quick sugary fix from the vending machine or from the rec room or the cafeteria or whatever.

02:14:30.000 I think it's a great first healthy habit to adopt.

02:14:35.000 And that's going to influence your behavior subsequently down the line.

02:14:40.000 I also think it can be really useful to try to be as present with your food as possible.

02:14:46.000 I mean, I'm guilty of eating on the run just as much as anybody else today, but studies show that when we're distracted when we're eating, we tend to consume more calories, about 15% more calories, which doesn't seem like a lot, but you consume...

02:15:00.000 You know, 15% more calories with every meal every day, and that adds up to a spare tire over time, you know?

02:15:10.000 You really want to major in the majors, as opposed to the minors, which I think many people do today.

02:15:16.000 So prioritizing whole foods, if there's one dietary tip, I really think that that's it.

02:15:25.000 Because in so doing, you are optimizing for satiety.

02:15:29.000 We know, thanks to NIH-funded research, that when people eat largely an ultra-processed diet, they tend to...

02:15:39.000 Overconsume their calorie budget for the day by about 500 additional calories.

02:15:45.000 And this is intentional.

02:15:46.000 I mean, this is something that's been engineered into these over-processed foods.

02:15:49.000 Engineered.

02:15:50.000 Yeah, it's engineered.

02:15:51.000 And nobody's being honest about this.

02:15:52.000 You know, that these foods are literally designed to be overconsumed.

02:15:57.000 You're not a failure for over-consuming them.

02:16:00.000 That's how you're meant to respond to those foods.

02:16:04.000 And it's the food industry, right?

02:16:05.000 They're certainly playing a role, but it's also your own biology.

02:16:08.000 It's like how your brain and your taste buds have evolved.

02:16:11.000 Because the ubiquity of food hasn't always been a thing.

02:16:16.000 For the vast majority of our time on this planet, food scarcity was a real issue.

02:16:20.000 There were more underweight people walking the earth than underweight.

02:16:23.000 Now that seesaw has flipped.

02:16:25.000 Now we are living in the...

02:16:26.000 For the first time in human history, there are more overweight people walking the earth than underweight.

02:16:30.000 Due to, you know, this phenomena, this westernization of our diets.

02:16:35.000 I think it's also very important what you said about not biting off more than you could chew and just try to take on one healthy habit at a time and build up to that.

02:16:44.000 Because it's been shown that habits, if you can continue them for a predetermined period of time, I think it's 90 days or something like that, once it gets to around 90 days, those habits become sort of cemented in to who you are.

02:17:00.000 Yeah.

02:17:01.000 I mean, I started making my bed a year ago.

02:17:06.000 I'm in my 40s.

02:17:08.000 I've never made my bed until about a year ago.

02:17:11.000 And it's a habit that now I've cemented, you know?

02:17:14.000 So you can teach an old dog new tricks.

02:17:16.000 That's a funny one.

02:17:17.000 Yeah, I've started making my bed.

02:17:18.000 Yeah, and that could also be walking around the block.

02:17:21.000 It could be...

02:17:22.000 You know, having an exercise routine.

02:17:24.000 You start off with just simple push-ups and sit-ups and body weight squats or something every morning.

02:17:28.000 Get your day going with that.

02:17:30.000 Exactly.

02:17:30.000 And if you can do it every day over a long period of time, you'll see results.

02:17:35.000 And if you're really sedentary, like if you've never stepped foot into a gym, you don't know what to do.

02:17:40.000 First of all, gyms are the most welcoming places to newbies.

02:17:42.000 So don't be intimidated by that.

02:17:44.000 Some of the most jacked guys in my gym are the sweetest dudes and are always willing to, you know, That's their thing that they enjoy doing.

02:17:51.000 They're happy when more people do it.

02:17:52.000 Yeah.

02:17:53.000 I mean, I don't know if it's because of the way this is revealing, but I've never been asked for my advice in the gym.

02:18:01.000 But I'm happy to give it.

02:18:04.000 But generally, people in the gym are friendly.

02:18:06.000 They're nice.

02:18:07.000 Yeah.

02:18:09.000 They're also experiencing the endorphin rush of the exercise and they're happier.

02:18:14.000 I love giving out unsolicited advice.

02:18:16.000 I do it sometimes in the gym and I get weird looks.

02:18:19.000 I probably shouldn't because I live in West Hollywood.

02:18:21.000 But it's...

02:18:23.000 Yeah, I mean...

02:18:26.000 People get intimidated by the gym environment, and I think it's really a shame because some of the nicest people, you know, are...

02:18:31.000 Most people don't know where to start, you know?

02:18:33.000 That's the problem.

02:18:34.000 And it's so intimidating to, like, walk into this place where everyone's so familiar, they're already so far on their fitness journey path that, you know, you look at their body like, that is not my body.

02:18:46.000 I can never be like that.

02:18:47.000 I can't.

02:18:47.000 I'm never going to look like that.

02:18:49.000 They had to start somewhere.

02:18:50.000 They had to start somewhere.

02:18:50.000 And here's the thing about fitness is that it's like, it's not, once you adopt it into your life and you embrace it and you embrace the lifestyle, it's like the rising tide that lifts all the boats in your harbor.

02:19:04.000 Because the discipline, you know, the discipline that it takes that you, you know, that habit once cemented, I mean, you can apply the things that you learn in fitness to so many other areas of life.

02:19:18.000 It's so powerful.

02:19:20.000 And if lifting weights is intimidating to you, if you're not even walking on a daily basis, then start there.

02:19:28.000 Maybe just go on more walks.

02:19:30.000 Yeah.

02:19:31.000 Just to walk around your block.

02:19:33.000 It's good.

02:19:34.000 It doesn't seem like you're doing much, but you really don't walk that far on a normal basis.

02:19:40.000 You walk to your car, you walk to your office, you walk to the lunchroom, whatever you're doing.

02:19:46.000 If you can just force yourself to walk a mile, just one mile, that's like so much more than you ever walk in one unbroken period of time.

02:19:56.000 Oh, yeah.

02:19:57.000 I mean, living in L.A., it's really difficult sometimes to get those steps in, but...

02:20:03.000 The whole 10,000 steps thing is a bit...

02:20:06.000 That kind of came from nowhere, actually.

02:20:08.000 10,000 steps.

02:20:09.000 Sort of like six feet distancing?

02:20:11.000 Yes!

02:20:12.000 Yeah.

02:20:13.000 Just like that, actually.

02:20:16.000 Although, unlike six feet distancing, there has been some research to come out since that kind of hit the cultural zeitgeist.

02:20:25.000 Yeah.

02:20:26.000 Showing that, you know, it's actually a pretty good target, you know?

02:20:31.000 Somewhere in the range of 7,000 to 10,000 steps a day.

02:20:34.000 And it's doable and it doesn't kill you.

02:20:36.000 It's not that hard.

02:20:37.000 Yeah.

02:20:38.000 Like, if you listen to a book on tape and you go for a walk or a podcast, It's easy.

02:20:42.000 It's not that bad.

02:20:44.000 Yeah.

02:20:44.000 And if you can just do that every day and then work your way up to some other stuff.

02:20:49.000 And then once you get the courage up, take a class.

02:20:53.000 Take a yoga class.

02:20:55.000 Take a martial arts class.

02:20:56.000 Do something where it's fun to do and you're getting your exercise in.

02:20:59.000 Exactly.

02:21:00.000 Which is a really great way to do it.

02:21:02.000 I go to the gym and I just walk on the treadmill.

02:21:04.000 I'm not a runner.

02:21:05.000 I've never liked running.

02:21:06.000 I know many people do, and power to them.

02:21:09.000 I've never liked it, and now with my low back stuff, it's become even more aggravating.

02:21:15.000 But I get on the treadmill and I walk.

02:21:17.000 I walk on the treadmill.

02:21:19.000 And it's incredibly gratifying.

02:21:22.000 You can put that incline up to 6, 7, 8, 9, and it's a fantastic cardiovascular workout.

02:21:30.000 It really is.

02:21:30.000 Yeah.

02:21:31.000 Yeah, especially with a high incline.

02:21:33.000 I do it with a weighted vest and a high incline.

02:21:35.000 Rocking?

02:21:36.000 Yeah.

02:21:36.000 Yeah, that's awesome.

02:21:37.000 I just watch a movie. 1.00

02:21:38.000 Just fucking suck. 1.00

02:21:40.000 Just suck trudging. 1.00

02:21:42.000 It's amazing how hard it is on your feet. 0.98

02:21:45.000 That's what's kind of crazy.

02:21:47.000 Like, your feet get tired.

02:21:48.000 Yeah.

02:21:49.000 You know?

02:21:50.000 But it's so good.

02:21:51.000 I mean, it's like...

02:21:52.000 You know, when your body is, I mean, it's a very intricate network of tubes and pipes, and not every fluid in your body has its own heart.

02:22:01.000 You know, so the movement is actually, I mean, it can help prevent cancer.

02:22:08.000 Exercise is a powerful cancer protective modality because you've got, you know, these immune vessels.

02:22:13.000 Your lymphatic system relies on movement, right?

02:22:16.000 Flexing your muscles actually pushes fluids around your body that don't otherwise have a pump.

02:22:23.000 And your brain, when you're sitting for an extended period of time, blood literally drains from your brain.

02:22:28.000 And just a brief walk, every 20 minutes of sedentary time, brief walk, just, you know, it oxygenates the brain.

02:22:36.000 And you can feel it.

02:22:37.000 What's one of the reasons why writers like to go for walks after they write?

02:22:41.000 It helps them review their material.

02:22:44.000 Like, a lot of guys do that.

02:22:45.000 They'll write early in the morning, and then they go for a walk, and they'll bring a tape recorder or their phone so they can use the voice notes.

02:22:52.000 And as they're walking, they'll start reviewing their material and thinking about their material as they're walking.

02:22:58.000 And then, like, maybe a new idea will come.

02:23:01.000 Because, you know, you're getting the heart rate.

02:23:04.000 The oxygen, all the endorphins, and then you're also in this thing where you're just walking and just thinking.

02:23:14.000 And as you do that, ideas start to sprout.

02:23:18.000 Very common amongst riders to go for a walk after the initial ride of the day.

02:23:22.000 Hmm.

02:23:22.000 Yeah, also helps blow off steam, and yeah, it's incredible.

02:23:27.000 Reminded me of this post of Rhonda Patrick.

02:23:28.000 Rhonda Patrick.

02:23:29.000 10 bodyweight squats every 45 minutes is more effective at blood sugar regulation than a 30-minute walk.

02:23:35.000 Well, that's even better.

02:23:36.000 How about that?

02:23:37.000 Easier to do, also.

02:23:39.000 Oh, yeah.

02:23:39.000 10 bodyweight squats every 45 minutes.

02:23:42.000 Is that for the whole day?

02:23:43.000 I mean- During an eight-hour period of sitting.

02:23:47.000 Yeah.

02:23:48.000 Not hard.

02:23:48.000 Brief, intense bursts of activity, often called exercise snacks, offer a potent strategy to mitigate the health risks associated with our sedentary lifestyles.

02:23:57.000 Yeah.

02:23:58.000 Exercise, snacking.

02:23:59.000 Yeah, that's a thing.

02:24:00.000 That's a thing that's been referenced in the exercise literature and seems to be super effective.

02:24:07.000 I know a friend who did that that radically improved his pull-ups.

02:24:11.000 And so he put a pull-up bar in his house and he would just walk by the pull-up bar and just do a couple.

02:24:16.000 Wow.

02:24:16.000 And he would just do it throughout the day.

02:24:18.000 Just every now and then do a couple of pull-ups.

02:24:21.000 I mean it sort of like lines up with the strength first philosophy of Pavel Totsilin and all the the talk of kettlebell work like do you do any that stuff?

02:24:31.000 Do you know what his ideas were?

02:24:33.000 No, not really.

02:24:34.000 The idea was you should never do anything to failure and that this idea of doing things to failure is you're just trying to rush results by you know forcing yourself to do that and that strength should be thought of as a skill and And the way to practice skills is to not be tired.

02:24:50.000 And so when you do kettlebells, like, I follow these principles.

02:24:54.000 So say if I'm doing clean and presses with 70 pounds, I could probably do 25 reps if I wanted to get to failure.

02:25:05.000 If I really wanted to get to, like, the last one, like, ugh!

02:25:07.000 So I don't do that.

02:25:09.000 I do ten and at ten I'm fine.

02:25:11.000 I could totally keep going but I put it down and then I walk away and then It looks like I'm lazy because I'll just like watch TV I'll watch a fight on TV and I won't do a thing for five minutes So in between my sets, I'm not the guy that like unless I'm doing endurance training I'm not the guy that like goes through these sets like all right,

02:25:34.000 let's go next one push it I don't do any of that And I've gotten significantly stronger.

02:25:40.000 I just wait a long time in between sets and my workouts, like my kettlebell workouts might take two and a half hours.

02:25:46.000 Wow.

02:25:47.000 So I'm lifting weights for two and a half hours, but in between I'm drinking electrolyte filled water.

02:25:53.000 I'm taking, I take this alpha brain pre-workout that has beta alanine in it, a lot of different things.

02:26:00.000 I drink that stuff.

02:26:01.000 And I get all the reps in if I just burnt myself out by sandwiching them together.

02:26:08.000 But I'm doing it at a point where when I'm doing my third set of 10 reps, I'm not tired.

02:26:15.000 I can do that third set, no problem.

02:26:17.000 And I put it down.

02:26:18.000 And then I go to my next exercise and I follow the same protocol for my next exercise.

02:26:22.000 So whatever that is, whether it's Renegade Rose, same thing.

02:26:26.000 I don't go to failure.

02:26:28.000 I get like whatever the rep number is with whatever the weight it is over time.

02:26:31.000 I figured it out.

02:26:33.000 And then I take a big break.

02:26:35.000 Big break.

02:26:36.000 Five minutes.

02:26:36.000 Ten minutes even maybe sometimes.

02:26:38.000 For the last set, I really want to be fresh.

02:26:41.000 And then when I'm hitting these, I'm not fatigued.

02:26:44.000 And it's decreased my soreness substantially.

02:26:47.000 It has allowed me to get all the repetitions that I would get in a shorter workout, but I'm never in a point of fatigue where I'm having a difficulty controlling the weight.

02:26:58.000 And I think the Russians used this strength training method, you know, a long time ago, and they realized that this idea of, like, train smarter, not harder.

02:27:08.000 Hmm.

02:27:09.000 Now, is this optimizing for strength or hypertrophy?

02:27:12.000 Strength.

02:27:13.000 Strength, primarily.

02:27:14.000 Strength, yeah.

02:27:15.000 I mean, hypertrophy, a lot of times, like bodybuilders, if you ever observe, they'll do really lightweight and extremely high repetitions, like 100 curls with, like, 15 pounds.

02:27:27.000 Hmm.

02:27:28.000 Because they're just trying to blow out those muscle fibers. 0.98

02:27:31.000 But I don't necessarily think that contributes to strength the same way lifting things that are heavier does.

02:27:39.000 Yeah, I've always heard that lower on the rep range as opposed to higher in the rep range tends to promote more strength.

02:27:48.000 And then hypertrophy you can achieve across the rep range now.

02:27:53.000 I think we now understand.

02:27:56.000 I wonder how it reconciles, because for hypertrophy, I've never been all that strong, and so my workouts have been...

02:28:03.000 I've primarily focused on hypertrophy, but I've always thought that while you don't necessarily need to go to failure on every set, you do want to get close to it, and maybe even hitting failure on the last set seems to promote good gains,

02:28:19.000 at least in terms of muscle growth.

02:28:21.000 Yeah, maybe if you want to get jacked.

02:28:24.000 I just want to be strong.

02:28:25.000 And I want also to be strong functionally.

02:28:28.000 I don't do anything in isolation.

02:28:30.000 I don't have any isolation exercises.

02:28:31.000 Not a single one that I do.

02:28:33.000 No preacher curls.

02:28:36.000 Nothing.

02:28:37.000 Everything that I do involves the whole body.

02:28:40.000 Are you familiar with this concept of stretch-mediated hypertrophy that people have been talking about?

02:28:45.000 I am, but explain it to people.

02:28:47.000 It's super interesting.

02:28:48.000 So obviously, working through the entire rep range of a movement is beneficial and should, I think, generally be the default.

02:28:56.000 But my understanding is that when the muscle is in its most lengthened position, under load, you seem to get a lot of bang for your buck.

02:29:04.000 And that's where the benefits of Lengthened partials comes into play, but also really kind of emphasizing that stretched position of any move, you know, of any exercise, whether it's like the bicep curl or the chest fly or even the chest press,

02:29:21.000 you know, making sure that you're really stretching out that muscle.

02:29:26.000 There seems to be a lot of reward to be gained from that.

02:29:31.000 Whereas opposed, I think, maybe what's most interesting about it is that we tend to think of most of the gains being achieved when fully contracted.

02:29:42.000 You know, like we squeeze the full contracted position, for example, of the chest fly.

02:29:46.000 Whereas I think what this research is starting to suggest is that you actually get more benefit from that stretched position.

02:29:51.000 So really emphasizing that.

02:29:53.000 And making sure that you're really, as opposed to kind of just doing like this like partial range of motion, like really kind of extending out and carrying that kind of philosophy to, you know, on through, you know, every lift.

02:30:07.000 I think there are some, there's some thinking that, you know, the...

02:30:14.000 Certain exercises, there might be some risk incurred with that.

02:30:18.000 For example, preacher curls, for example.

02:30:20.000 I've seen some horror story videos on Instagram where people snap their biceps.

02:30:25.000 But just generally speaking, That's sort of like a big buzz thing now within the fitness community.

02:30:34.000 The stretch-mediated hypertrophy, which is interesting.

02:30:39.000 It kind of makes sense because it's kind of the most vulnerable time of the lift.

02:30:44.000 Especially if you have a chest fly in your back, you feel so vulnerable.

02:30:47.000 Whereas here, you feel pretty strong.

02:30:49.000 Once you have achieved a certain amount of distance pulling the cables, you get to here.

02:30:55.000 Now you feel pretty strong.

02:30:56.000 And then at the end of it, you're like...

02:30:59.000 Yeah, you really feel vulnerable in the beginning in the beginning everything feels like I got to get past this where it's enjoyable And it's kind of enjoyable in this rep range like as you're bringing the hands together Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm not I'm not definitely not like an expert on the topic But I'm a student of of it of fitness science and and I've put it into practice and I've seen some pretty significant gains As a result,

02:31:21.000 it is interesting.

02:31:23.000 But primarily, you generally want to complete the full range of motion, but then just maybe throwing in some length and partials.

02:31:30.000 Just a few extra reps at the bottom. 0.93

02:31:33.000 Yeah, you can go past failure.

02:31:36.000 Adding more volume always seems to be helpful from the standpoint of hypertrophy.

02:31:41.000 Provided you're not adding junk volume, you're not just building fatigue, you're actually adding stimulus.

02:31:47.000 Seems effective.

02:31:47.000 I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that people make in the gym is that they don't train with adequate intensity.

02:31:51.000 I see a lot of people in my gym, they're lifting weights...

02:31:57.000 And I see them putting the weight down when they clearly had five, six additional reps in the tank.

02:32:03.000 And they're not lifting weight that's all that heavy compared to how you described your new lifting style.

02:32:09.000 They're kind of just going through the motions of the exercise, but they're not actually sending the adequate stimulus to the muscle that it needs to adapt, grow stronger, or we're going to die.

02:32:19.000 And then they wonder why they don't get any results.

02:32:21.000 Exactly.

02:32:21.000 They're half-assing it.

02:32:22.000 Yeah.

02:32:23.000 That's what a lot of people do with everything in life, unfortunately.

02:32:26.000 And you pay for that, whether you realize it or not.

02:32:29.000 What you don't pay in the gym, you pay for with the rest of your life.

02:32:35.000 Yeah, 100%.

02:32:36.000 Yeah.

02:32:37.000 So true.

02:32:38.000 Anything else, Max, you want to bring up while we're here?

02:32:41.000 Oh, man.

02:32:43.000 I'm just super psyched to be here, to get to do what I do, to share...

02:32:52.000 Evidence-based research with people, but in a way that's practical and that acknowledges the limitations of the research that I share and just the general landscape of nutrition science, which tends to be incredibly weak.

02:33:07.000 I think that's not...

02:33:08.000 Yeah.

02:33:28.000 Not smart, borderline unethical.

02:33:32.000 And so yeah, insofar as I get to provide a more authentic, high integrity, highly actionable path for people, I'm just grateful that I get to do what I do.

02:33:45.000 And I do it on my podcast, The Genius Life.

02:33:47.000 And I'm super excited for people to watch the film, which I've worked on for the past 10 years.

02:33:53.000 And again, I think it's the most important thing I've ever done.

02:33:55.000 And I'm super proud of it.

02:33:57.000 And Grateful to be here, so thanks for having me.

02:34:00.000 I'm grateful to have you.

02:34:01.000 You are a really important resource, and I think it's a great pleasure to have people like you available to provide free information for people to learn about all these different ways that they can benefit their health.

02:34:17.000 And it's just so important to have someone like yourself out there that really focuses on it and does a great job of disseminating that information.

02:34:25.000 Thank you, brother.

02:34:26.000 Appreciate you.

02:34:27.000 It means a lot.

02:34:28.000 Tell everybody how they can see your documentary.

02:34:31.000 LittleEmptyBoxes.com.

02:34:32.000 LittleEmptyBoxes.com.

02:34:33.000 You can, as of today, you can buy it.

02:34:36.000 You can rent it.

02:34:37.000 We've got some cool limited-time bonuses, like a signed poster.

02:34:41.000 But I'm so excited for you guys to see this film.

02:34:43.000 I've put my heart and soul, blood, sweat, and so many tears into it.

02:34:48.000 And listen to my podcast, The Genius Life.

02:34:51.000 And I've got books, The Genius Life, Genius Foods, and Genius Kitchen.

02:34:55.000 And your Instagram and Twitter, what are those addresses?

02:34:59.000 Yeah, at Max Lugavere.

02:35:01.000 Come say what's up.

02:35:02.000 Spell it to people.

02:35:03.000 M-A-X-L-U-G-A-V-E-R-E. All right. 1.00

02:35:07.000 You too, man, Joe.

02:35:07.000 Thank you, Max.

02:35:08.000 Appreciate you, brother.

02:35:09.000 Thank you.

02:35:09.000 All right.

02:35:09.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - June 27, 2024

Joe Rogan Experience #2170 - Max Lugavere

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