The Joe Rogan Experience - September 05, 2024


Joe Rogan Experience #2199 - Chris Harris


Episode Stats

Length

2 hours and 57 minutes

Words per Minute

186.13489

Word Count

32,980

Sentence Count

3,463

Misogynist Sentences

32


Summary

In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, the former Top Gear presenter joins the pod to talk about his time on the show, and what it was like being on it. He also talks about why he left the show and why he thinks it was a mistake. Also, he talks about his new car, the Ford Raptor, and his love of the local beer, Heineken and Budweiser. Joe also discusses why he decided to leave Top Gear after 8 years and what he's been up to since then, and why it was probably not a good idea to leave the show at the end of it all. And he explains why he thought it would be a great idea to make a movie about Top Gear, and how he thinks Jeremy Clarkson should have won the Academy Award for Best Original Screenplay. If you haven't done so already, you're missing out on a special bonus episode of the podcast hosted by the late, great comedian and podcaster, J.R. Rogan himself. Check it out! It's a must-listen, and you won't want to miss this one. Enjoy! -Joe Rogan (featuring the excellent automotive journalist John Rocha ( ) and the amazing automotive journalist ( ) (John is a regular contributor to the New York Times, and is one of the most influential automotive journalists in the world, and one of my closest friends in the automotive journalism. ) Joe talks about cars, cars, trucks, and everything in between. He's a bitches, including his love life, and he's also has a good sense of humor, so you should listen to the wholeheartedly. I hope you enjoy it. -J.R.'s podcast is a good one, because it's a lot of fun, and it's good, and that you'll enjoy it, because he's funny and it'll make you feel like you're in a good place. Thank you, Joe's good at it, too. Thanks for listening, Joe, I really appreciate it. -Jon -Jon's new book is out now, Jon's book "The Local Beer Project" is out in paperback, The Local Beer Podcast, which is out on Amazon Prime Video, and I'm looking forward to seeing it soon, too, so don't forget to check it out. Jon's new podcast is out soon, and we'll be shipping it out soon.


Transcript

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!
00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
00:00:12.000 So before you press the cord...
00:00:13.000 I have.
00:00:16.000 I'll go most places.
00:00:17.000 And I'm here because I want to tell people the truth about the last eight...
00:00:21.000 I've had a pretty shit two years.
00:00:23.000 Because Top Gear ended in a way that most Americans won't know.
00:00:26.000 But my colleague nearly died in a crash.
00:00:29.000 And then they left us in limbo a bit.
00:00:31.000 I've never told anyone anything about it.
00:00:34.000 Largely because my friend and colleague who was nearly killed in the accident called Andrew Flintoff, who was a presenter on the show...
00:00:41.000 Again, no Americans will know who he is, but he's a massive sports hero in the UK. He plays that weird game called cricket.
00:00:47.000 He was like our best cricket player.
00:00:48.000 Can we use this?
00:00:50.000 Yeah, no, we can.
00:00:50.000 I just want to give you a quick foretaste of it.
00:00:53.000 I'll say some things that people won't have heard before, and they'll make them gasp a bit.
00:00:57.000 Because we're recording now.
00:00:59.000 Yeah, that's fine.
00:01:01.000 What's that?
00:01:04.000 Okay.
00:01:04.000 That's fine.
00:01:05.000 Are we on me?
00:01:07.000 I'm going to go into it all.
00:01:09.000 Okay.
00:01:09.000 But it might be what seems quite revelatory to me.
00:01:12.000 Anyway, good to see you, since we're rolling.
00:01:13.000 Cheers, sir.
00:01:13.000 Ten years.
00:01:14.000 Yeah.
00:01:15.000 It's been a while.
00:01:15.000 And do you know what?
00:01:16.000 I don't ever listen to what I say or watch what I record.
00:01:20.000 I don't watch my own shows.
00:01:21.000 Good for you.
00:01:22.000 You probably don't either, do you?
00:01:23.000 I don't.
00:01:23.000 No.
00:01:24.000 It's good for the soul.
00:01:25.000 Once it's done, it's buried.
00:01:26.000 Exactly.
00:01:27.000 But I think I came to see you...
00:01:30.000 About a month before, I received a phone call saying, do you want to do this television show called Top Gear?
00:01:36.000 Yeah, it was before Top Gear, for sure.
00:01:38.000 And I think it was then.
00:01:39.000 And I think at that point, I'd been fielding a lot of questions about, well, why would you follow Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear?
00:01:45.000 And I'd gone, no one would do that.
00:01:46.000 They'd be an idiot to do that.
00:01:49.000 And then I looked at the sort of monthly payments I needed to live my life, and I got offered a bit of, not much money, but some money.
00:01:55.000 I thought, I'll give it a go.
00:01:56.000 But most importantly, I thought, the 17-year-old me...
00:02:00.000 If he saw me say no to this job, he'll punch me in the face.
00:02:03.000 Right.
00:02:03.000 Because it's my dream job.
00:02:04.000 Right.
00:02:04.000 And I know that Top Gear is a weird thing in the U.S. because I think many U.S. people are aware that it exists, but they've never really seen it because it never was put on a big network here.
00:02:14.000 Yeah, but it became very popular on YouTube.
00:02:16.000 It did.
00:02:17.000 Yeah, I mean, it was a great show.
00:02:20.000 Yeah, I mean, whether my era of Top Gear will be considered great, I don't know.
00:02:24.000 I had lots of fun making it, but following in Jeremy's footsteps was on reflection of a decision.
00:02:29.000 I made the wrong call.
00:02:31.000 I shouldn't have done it.
00:02:31.000 Really?
00:02:32.000 Yeah, I had a great time.
00:02:34.000 But you try following him in the UK. Just because of how much he's loved.
00:02:38.000 Yeah.
00:02:39.000 I didn't realise how deep-rooted it was.
00:02:42.000 I still get hate mail now.
00:02:43.000 I still get hate mail now.
00:02:44.000 Yeah, you could have had the exact same show under a different name if people would have loved it.
00:02:49.000 Yeah.
00:02:49.000 Yeah.
00:02:50.000 And I think we made some good films.
00:02:51.000 And I love what I did.
00:02:53.000 But even if we made a good film, it was always shit because it wasn't Jeremy.
00:02:56.000 I really enjoyed it, though.
00:02:57.000 I enjoyed you being on it.
00:02:58.000 You know, you're great.
00:03:00.000 You're my favorite automotive journalist.
00:03:03.000 Well, that's very kind of you.
00:03:04.000 And I've just seen what you've arrived in as well.
00:03:06.000 And I thoroughly approve of your taste in motor vehicles.
00:03:08.000 Am I allowed to say what it is or not?
00:03:09.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:03:10.000 It's a Raptor R that John Hennessey jumps up to a thousand horsepower.
00:03:16.000 It's fucking ridiculous.
00:03:17.000 I think...
00:03:18.000 I'm often asked, if you lived in America, what car would you drive?
00:03:21.000 And it would always be a Raptor.
00:03:23.000 It comes under the heading of, always drink the local beer.
00:03:26.000 You know, when you go to a city, don't order a Heineken or a Bud.
00:03:29.000 Drink the local beer.
00:03:30.000 And the F-150 Raptor is your local beer.
00:03:33.000 Yeah.
00:03:33.000 Yep, that's about as American as it gets.
00:03:36.000 Dodge Rams and Ford F-150s.
00:03:39.000 Yeah, those are the most American vehicles.
00:03:41.000 1,000 horsepower in a truck.
00:03:43.000 It's ridiculous.
00:03:43.000 We never thought it would be possible, did we?
00:03:45.000 No.
00:03:45.000 Zero to 60 in three seconds for a giant pickup truck.
00:03:49.000 It's awesome.
00:03:50.000 And it sounds great, too.
00:03:52.000 It just has this beautiful rumble.
00:03:53.000 Do you think you'll be allowed to drive that in 10 years time in this state?
00:03:57.000 No.
00:03:58.000 Maybe in this state.
00:03:59.000 Yeah, but if you leave, they'll have people at the border waiting in the bushes to arrest you the moment you cross over if you don't have an EV. In California, they have a mandate.
00:04:09.000 In 2035, after 2035, no internal combustion engine vehicles are allowed to be sold in this state.
00:04:17.000 Same in the UK. No, it was 2035. Then the last administration moved it back to 2030. Good luck.
00:04:26.000 They're not even ready.
00:04:28.000 They're not ready.
00:04:29.000 The grid's not ready.
00:04:31.000 I'm so torn on this because everyone looks to me as the ultimate petrolhead and I'll sit there and go, they're all shit.
00:04:36.000 They're not all shit.
00:04:37.000 They have a place.
00:04:38.000 And the most sophisticated assessment of this that I've come across was just a very normal person I was talking to one day in an airport who said, surely the solution is that you just use...
00:04:49.000 What's pertinent to the energy that's easiest where you live?
00:04:52.000 And I think it's the best way of explaining it.
00:04:54.000 If you live here, you drill a hole in the ground.
00:04:57.000 There's oil around here.
00:04:59.000 If you live in Iceland, you drill a hole in the ground.
00:05:01.000 There's loads of geothermal.
00:05:02.000 So why wouldn't you have an EV there?
00:05:04.000 It's brilliant.
00:05:04.000 It's everywhere.
00:05:05.000 It's quite a small country.
00:05:06.000 I don't need to travel large distances.
00:05:08.000 But Iceland's cold, and the battery capacity, when it gets really cold, diminishes pretty rapidly.
00:05:13.000 Yeah, but also, if you live there and you've got loads of batteries and you have a cartridge system, we can slot them in and out.
00:05:18.000 It's doable, isn't it?
00:05:19.000 I just think we need to be a bit cleverer about it.
00:05:22.000 But at the moment, the subject's approached with...
00:05:24.000 This is good.
00:05:25.000 This is evil.
00:05:26.000 At the moment, we live in a Star Wars reality.
00:05:28.000 So effectively, you're either the Rebellion or you're Darth Vader and his crew.
00:05:33.000 And you will as well.
00:05:35.000 I've been pushed into the corner of being Darth Vader.
00:05:38.000 I just don't think I am.
00:05:40.000 When I can, I use the train.
00:05:42.000 If I'm in a city, I quite like riding a bicycle because it suits me.
00:05:45.000 I like it.
00:05:46.000 It works.
00:05:47.000 But when I want to go out on an open road and enjoy a 9-11...
00:05:51.000 I want to enjoy 9-11.
00:05:52.000 Why can't I? I find it very difficult when I'm told to do things that I don't think are rational or reasonable.
00:05:58.000 No, and there's this religious ideology that's attached to climate change.
00:06:04.000 It has that sort of fever-pitched religious aspect to it.
00:06:10.000 And most people, when you corner them, even the real zealots, most people really don't understand How much data there is on the impact that human beings have on climate change?
00:06:21.000 How much is being done in China and India that will not change at all and is only going to get more extreme?
00:06:27.000 And like what little impact you have comparatively.
00:06:32.000 That's a really interesting point because it's like being a parent.
00:06:36.000 On the one hand, you can respond to that by saying, well, yeah, I'm going to make no difference.
00:06:39.000 I'll just carry on driving around in my Raptor.
00:06:41.000 But then it could be suggested that That means that you should make a difference.
00:06:46.000 But I find it really difficult that we can't understand that if there has to ultimately be a change at some point, if it's rational, I don't know if it's now or it's certainly not 2035, that's not reasonable.
00:07:00.000 We need to prepare ourselves to make logical and progressive changes.
00:07:04.000 I don't think you can mandate those changes.
00:07:06.000 First of all, we have a long history of internal combustion engines as recreation vehicles, and we love them.
00:07:14.000 I think it's completely unfair if you're still running coal plants that power electric vehicles, which is a fact in America.
00:07:22.000 They have coal plants that power electric vehicles.
00:07:25.000 They do far more damage to the environment.
00:07:27.000 And if you tell me I can't have an internal combustion engine while you're doing that to power electric vehicles, I'm going to say fuck you.
00:07:33.000 Because fuck you is the right thing to say, because that doesn't make any sense.
00:07:37.000 And there's also this weird thing that is attached to this.
00:07:41.000 This is a business, the green energy business.
00:07:44.000 And these people that are involved in the green energy business have done a tremendous job We're good to go.
00:08:14.000 Infrastructure or military, there's a lot of money being exchanged, and that's why it's being promoted.
00:08:20.000 This isn't some completely altruistic, we need to save the world, and this is what's wrong.
00:08:27.000 It's not true.
00:08:28.000 It's not true.
00:08:29.000 I think I agree, and there are some basic tests you can apply to it.
00:08:34.000 If you gave most people that love the internal combustion engine an electric vehicle that could do exactly the same thing as well but be electric, they'd take it.
00:08:44.000 But they can't.
00:08:45.000 We cannot.
00:08:46.000 The technology doesn't work at the moment.
00:08:48.000 It just doesn't sound the same.
00:08:50.000 It doesn't feel the same.
00:08:51.000 I'm talking about the non-enthusiast.
00:08:53.000 The non-enthusiast.
00:08:54.000 People like you and I that don't care about that.
00:08:55.000 If you gave them an electric vehicle that did exactly the same job that could do it as well and could be as flexible to their needs...
00:09:03.000 They'd take it because it's as good.
00:09:04.000 But no one can do that at the moment.
00:09:06.000 They don't exist.
00:09:07.000 They don't exist.
00:09:07.000 It takes too long to charge.
00:09:08.000 You can't just pull over and charge.
00:09:10.000 It takes hours.
00:09:11.000 And also, there are so many other industries that pollute so heavily.
00:09:14.000 Why aren't they the subject of so much sort of pernicious legislation?
00:09:18.000 I mean, we talk about shipping.
00:09:20.000 If you start to look into cargo ships, what they emit is extraordinary.
00:09:25.000 Extraordinary.
00:09:25.000 Absolutely extraordinary.
00:09:27.000 Right.
00:09:27.000 Well, do you know that they, I believe it was the UN, passed some sort of regulations on cargo ships, and because of these regulations to make them more, pollute less, the side effect, the unintended consequences were the ocean got warmer.
00:09:44.000 The surface of the ocean where it was measured got warmer because there's no longer a pollution layer over the ocean where these things are traveling.
00:09:53.000 Which is so crazy.
00:09:56.000 So, I know.
00:09:58.000 Do you know that there's more green on Earth today than there was in the last 100 years?
00:10:06.000 No, I didn't know that.
00:10:07.000 It's because of the carbon dioxide.
00:10:08.000 Because trees eat carbon dioxide.
00:10:12.000 I have to say, I'm completely torn on it all.
00:10:15.000 Because I... Some days, you don't have so many diesel vehicles here, but some days I drive around in the UK and I see a diesel throwing some shit out the back of it.
00:10:25.000 And I'm like, that's not good.
00:10:27.000 If I can see it, I don't like it.
00:10:29.000 We have a lot of diesel trucks here.
00:10:30.000 Yeah, and I don't like it.
00:10:31.000 You hit the gas on the highway and you see black smoke.
00:10:33.000 And I do want things to be different.
00:10:36.000 Over time.
00:10:37.000 And I can see that that's the way that we might be heading.
00:10:40.000 But I hate the fact that the timeline is determined by politicians rather than scientists.
00:10:46.000 Exactly.
00:10:47.000 And even the scientists are all bought and paid for.
00:10:49.000 That's part of the problem too.
00:10:51.000 Scientists aren't just scientists.
00:10:53.000 They're scientists that are influenced by the university.
00:10:55.000 They're influenced by whatever research group they're a part of.
00:10:58.000 There's a lot of shenanigans going on.
00:11:00.000 And the internal combustion engine has ironically reached a point where it's Really quite efficient.
00:11:06.000 It's quite a clever thing.
00:11:07.000 If you were to invite an alien down in that vehicle there and try and show off what we're capable of, you might show them a Raptor R and go, we did that.
00:11:16.000 We're quite clever.
00:11:18.000 But I think they'd be like, you're not using gravity?
00:11:20.000 Why don't you guys just go use gravity, manipulate gravity?
00:11:23.000 This is so stupid.
00:11:24.000 I have a Tesla.
00:11:25.000 I have a Model S Plaid, and it's fantastic.
00:11:28.000 It is so fast.
00:11:30.000 It's like a time machine.
00:11:31.000 Has it got the not-real steering wheel?
00:11:33.000 Yes.
00:11:33.000 I don't like that.
00:11:34.000 I don't like the yoke.
00:11:36.000 I ordered a new one.
00:11:37.000 I get it in October.
00:11:38.000 No yoke.
00:11:39.000 Regular wheel.
00:11:39.000 Wheel's better.
00:11:40.000 I like a wheel better.
00:11:41.000 But I get it.
00:11:42.000 There's some benefits to the yoke.
00:11:43.000 It's like you get a clear view of the dash.
00:11:45.000 You basically put your hands on there.
00:11:47.000 And he's moving towards like completely automated.
00:11:50.000 You know, you can press doot doot.
00:11:52.000 You press a button.
00:11:52.000 It'll drive you just based on the navigation.
00:11:54.000 Where do you stand on that?
00:11:56.000 I don't trust it.
00:11:57.000 No, nor do I. I mean, it just doesn't feel right.
00:11:59.000 There's a few times I've been in one of those things with the most advanced.
00:12:02.000 They've all got levels now, haven't they?
00:12:04.000 And I've let it drive me.
00:12:06.000 I'm there thinking.
00:12:07.000 I'm hovering.
00:12:08.000 I don't like it.
00:12:09.000 It's the exact same feeling that I got when Joe Biden was the president.
00:12:13.000 Like, is this okay?
00:12:15.000 Are we...
00:12:16.000 I just...
00:12:18.000 I have to say, I don't...
00:12:20.000 And in this city, there are...
00:12:30.000 We're good to go.
00:12:47.000 Well, there was a bunch of them.
00:12:48.000 They got into a sort of a situation where they created a traffic jam because they all came into an intersection together and no one wanted to move.
00:12:59.000 And there was a bunch of them.
00:13:00.000 Because there's quite a few of them in the city.
00:13:02.000 I've seen several today.
00:13:04.000 Yes, they caused a traffic jam.
00:13:06.000 Yeah, I don't.
00:13:08.000 I mean, probably one day it's going to be the way to do it, the way to get around.
00:13:13.000 But I think you can't deny people the joy of driving, just like you can't deny people their ability to ride horses.
00:13:21.000 If someone wants to ride a horse, they should be able to ride a horse.
00:13:24.000 People have a long history of enjoying horse riding, okay?
00:13:28.000 Let them ride horses.
00:13:29.000 And I have a 1993 RS America.
00:13:38.000 That's a rare car.
00:13:40.000 Oh, I love it.
00:13:41.000 It's so beautiful.
00:13:43.000 Because that was the car they made because you weren't allowed the real 94 RS, were you?
00:13:46.000 Yes.
00:13:47.000 They did a special one.
00:13:47.000 Yes.
00:13:48.000 So this one, I sent it to Shark Works, and they juiced it up to somewhere around 300 horsepower.
00:13:54.000 Nothing crazy.
00:13:55.000 But, oh my God, it's so tactile, and it's alive, and it just...
00:14:01.000 When I drive it, I'm smiling, and I have this big smile on my face like, I'm on a fucking ride.
00:14:07.000 I was going to bring my Gunther Works here today, but it's raining.
00:14:11.000 Have you got one of those?
00:14:12.000 Yeah.
00:14:12.000 Has it got a roof or not?
00:14:13.000 Yeah, it's got a roof.
00:14:15.000 I mean, so where do we stand on the resto mod scene?
00:14:17.000 Do we think it's gone too far or do we believe it's the way forward?
00:14:22.000 Well, I like the ones that look old but drive new.
00:14:26.000 Yeah.
00:14:26.000 Because they're less dangerous.
00:14:28.000 That's the whole idea, isn't it, really?
00:14:30.000 But I don't think there's anything dangerous in that 964. That's mine.
00:14:36.000 That's beautiful.
00:14:37.000 Oh, it's all good.
00:14:38.000 How much power has that got?
00:14:40.000 460?
00:14:41.000 And it's, you know, 2,000 pounds?
00:14:43.000 I've also got to raise my hand here and say that I work for Singer.
00:14:46.000 So I've got to be very careful.
00:14:47.000 I love those too.
00:14:47.000 Well, I actually have a little contract with them.
00:14:50.000 So I've actually professionally got to say I ignore that vehicle.
00:14:54.000 But actually, I love the Resto Mod thing.
00:14:58.000 I think we might be at peak Resto Mod because there's so much of it going on.
00:15:02.000 But it does...
00:15:03.000 It segues into a point I wanted to make about the way we're travelling.
00:15:07.000 One of the ways I find to appease myself, if I do wake up some days and think I'm a pretty wasteful individual or whatever it is, even I have moments where I think Just have a look at yourself in the mirror.
00:15:17.000 Just buy a used car.
00:15:19.000 Then you're not having another one built.
00:15:21.000 There are so many great old cars out there.
00:15:23.000 I just go out and buy something that's 10 years old.
00:15:25.000 Go and look at a 10-year-old AMG. What a machine.
00:15:29.000 That's a vehicle that's already been built.
00:15:31.000 Its wastefulness has already been absorbed into this weird world we live in.
00:15:35.000 Go and buy it.
00:15:36.000 It's there for you.
00:15:37.000 With its 500 horsepower, it's ready to go.
00:15:40.000 The greenest thing you can do is to go and buy an old Ferrari.
00:15:44.000 Right.
00:15:44.000 You'll do no miles in it, because you'll never use it, because it might work now and again.
00:15:49.000 It's the greenest thing you can do in your life, is buy a used Ferrari or a Lamborghini.
00:15:53.000 Right.
00:15:53.000 It's the best thing.
00:15:55.000 But no one seems to express it this way.
00:15:57.000 And the other way is to restomod.
00:15:59.000 It's to, you know, buy something and make it...
00:16:02.000 Make the car that you wish new car makers built now, but they can't.
00:16:06.000 Because they've all been drawn into this need to spend billions on these electric SUVs.
00:16:12.000 There's the other thing that's ironic.
00:16:14.000 They're all SUVs.
00:16:15.000 So you're telling me we've got to have these efficient new EVs, but you're going to make them three tons.
00:16:21.000 Shouldn't they be that big?
00:16:22.000 Not only that, there's a problem with guardrails.
00:16:24.000 Jesus.
00:16:25.000 They're too heavy.
00:16:26.000 They go right through the guardrails like butter.
00:16:28.000 I saw that.
00:16:29.000 I saw that on Instagram, too.
00:16:30.000 It just goes straight through it.
00:16:32.000 Right through it.
00:16:34.000 I do think that people love cars.
00:16:37.000 Just look to old stuff.
00:16:38.000 There's so much of it out there.
00:16:40.000 Yeah, and they're so good.
00:16:42.000 I have a 2005 M3. It's an E46. Peak car.
00:16:48.000 Peak car.
00:16:49.000 It's such a great car.
00:16:50.000 I know.
00:16:50.000 It's not too powerful, but it's so delightful.
00:16:53.000 It doesn't have a radio.
00:16:55.000 It's got cloth seats.
00:16:57.000 Cloth seats, that is rare.
00:16:59.000 Yeah, cloth seats.
00:17:01.000 I just bought the V10. So you had the E60 V10 M5 over here.
00:17:04.000 Crazy machine.
00:17:05.000 Yes.
00:17:05.000 We had the Touring in the UK. They built a Touring, which is a state car.
00:17:10.000 Sorry, a station wagon.
00:17:12.000 And I've got one of those that I bought earlier in the year.
00:17:15.000 And I'm just...
00:17:15.000 Do you know what?
00:17:16.000 I paid £27,000 for it.
00:17:18.000 I probably spent more than that on it already.
00:17:21.000 Just making it right.
00:17:23.000 But actually, the journey of...
00:17:25.000 Of just reconditioning and renewing something like that to use for the next five years, I find more interesting than most new performance cars now.
00:17:32.000 Is that a sad statement or not?
00:17:34.000 No, no, because there's something about, like, seeing the improvement on a vehicle.
00:17:39.000 Like, getting a vehicle and going, yeah, you know, this suspension is okay, but these shocks are like, I could adjust this, and maybe this, and maybe I can get a little wider wheel in this, and...
00:17:49.000 Hmm.
00:17:50.000 You remind me so much of one of my favourite colleagues, Mr. LeBlanc.
00:17:53.000 Because Matt is a much bigger car guy than anyone realises.
00:17:57.000 We actually grew up in the same town.
00:17:59.000 Did you?
00:18:00.000 Yeah.
00:18:00.000 I had friends that knew him, but I never met him.
00:18:03.000 I've still never met him.
00:18:04.000 He's a wonderful man, and he's a brilliant car guy.
00:18:07.000 He would agree with you.
00:18:09.000 He's like that.
00:18:10.000 He can never quite leave something alone.
00:18:12.000 Yeah.
00:18:13.000 And with motorcycles as well.
00:18:15.000 Motorcycles.
00:18:16.000 He...
00:18:17.000 I had a bizarre...
00:18:18.000 Working with him was wonderful, by the way.
00:18:19.000 I loved him to bits.
00:18:20.000 I'd like to make another TV show with him.
00:18:22.000 I got...
00:18:24.000 One of these gangs that steals motorcycles in the UK got me.
00:18:29.000 So I was doing a voiceover in the centre of London.
00:18:31.000 I probably told...
00:18:32.000 I might have written this story.
00:18:33.000 I don't know if I told it or not.
00:18:36.000 And I had a new Ducati I'd bought.
00:18:38.000 I like bikes.
00:18:38.000 I'm not very good on them.
00:18:39.000 But I like bikes.
00:18:40.000 And I was trying to get better.
00:18:42.000 And Matt's a very good rider.
00:18:43.000 And I had this Ducati Panigale...
00:18:46.000 Anniversary with all the...
00:18:47.000 It's the kind of shit you buy when you've just got a TV job, you know, and you think you're the dog's bollocks.
00:18:51.000 Looking back, it's fucking embarrassing.
00:18:53.000 So I've parked it up in Soho, right in the centre of London, where the voiceover studio was.
00:18:59.000 And I was a bit early, so I was milling about, wearing my leathers still.
00:19:04.000 And I saw this bike moving past me, and I thought, that's a nice bike.
00:19:07.000 Oh shit, that's my bike.
00:19:09.000 And I saw these guys, all in black, with stuff.
00:19:13.000 Sort of tinted visors, black everything.
00:19:17.000 What they do is they basically angle grind off the...
00:19:21.000 The steering lock, the male part that goes into the headstock, the angle ground that off, break the steering, and then they have a moped behind or something quite powerful with a leg out and another guy and push your bike away in neutral.
00:19:31.000 And they get it around the corner into a van and away it goes.
00:19:34.000 Wow.
00:19:34.000 And they did it right in front of me.
00:19:36.000 And so I walked up and I was like, this is my bike.
00:19:38.000 I'm small, not a very big guy.
00:19:42.000 I don't present any kind of a threat.
00:19:43.000 And there was three of them.
00:19:46.000 And I challenged them and I said, this is not on.
00:19:48.000 And I started swearing and one of them had a hammer, claw hammer.
00:19:52.000 And we had a tussle and the bike fell over.
00:19:55.000 And as the bike fell over, I'm like, well, that's wrecked that then, hasn't it?
00:19:58.000 Because I could just see the fairing squashed.
00:20:00.000 And then the guy tried to hit me with the hammer.
00:20:02.000 And I was like, I remember screaming.
00:20:05.000 You're trying to steal my bike and now you're trying to hit me with the hammer.
00:20:07.000 And then they left.
00:20:09.000 And I was really shocked.
00:20:10.000 I'd never had anything like that happen to me.
00:20:13.000 So I picked the bike up and I walked it down to the voiceover studio.
00:20:19.000 And I rolled it up and I walked in and Matt was there.
00:20:21.000 It's a long story.
00:20:22.000 And I said, well, he went, how are you?
00:20:24.000 I said, well, someone's just tried to steal my bike and they tried to hit me with a hammer.
00:20:27.000 And he came outside and he looked at the bike.
00:20:30.000 He's got the most lovely deadpan voice.
00:20:32.000 And he goes...
00:20:34.000 You want to get those Ducati performance levers?
00:20:36.000 Those are too long.
00:20:43.000 He was trying to mod it.
00:20:44.000 He didn't even care.
00:20:45.000 You almost get killed by a hammer.
00:20:46.000 Because he's like you.
00:20:47.000 He's like, obviously, you know, tough.
00:20:49.000 He's a big boy.
00:20:50.000 And he's like, he's fine.
00:20:51.000 But those levers are too long.
00:20:52.000 They don't suit that bike.
00:20:54.000 Those levers are too long.
00:20:57.000 Yeah, I think the mod thing is really important to me.
00:21:00.000 I love it.
00:21:01.000 I cannot leave stuff alone.
00:21:03.000 Yeah, I enjoy messing around with stuff, too.
00:21:06.000 It's part of the fun of the older cars.
00:21:11.000 You know, particularly, like, I have a Nissan GTR. And that is...
00:21:19.000 35?
00:21:20.000 Yeah, that is the ultimate mod car.
00:21:22.000 Because they've been around for so long in exactly the same form, and there's such an aftermarket, and everybody just goes crazy.
00:21:28.000 Find me a standard one that don't exist.
00:21:30.000 Yeah, it's very hard to find.
00:21:31.000 A stock R35, the unicorn.
00:21:33.000 Yeah.
00:21:34.000 Very hard to find.
00:21:35.000 How much power does yours have?
00:21:36.000 Well, I got a Nismo.
00:21:37.000 I got last year's model, the Nismo.
00:21:39.000 So I got it new.
00:21:40.000 It was still laying around.
00:21:42.000 But I got it because I know you can fuck around with them.
00:21:44.000 So I'm never going to get rid of it.
00:21:46.000 I'm going to keep it forever.
00:21:47.000 And I'm going to juice it up to probably a thousand horsepower or something stupid.
00:21:50.000 And if they make another one, it'll have to be a hybrid.
00:21:52.000 It'll have to be...
00:21:53.000 Yeah.
00:21:54.000 Yeah, it'll never be the same.
00:21:57.000 I mean, they're about to do that to Porsches, probably.
00:21:59.000 They're about to do that.
00:22:00.000 They're already doing that with the M5, right?
00:22:01.000 The new M5 is a hybrid.
00:22:03.000 I've driven that.
00:22:04.000 The new one?
00:22:05.000 Yeah.
00:22:05.000 I'm not sure whether I can say I've driven it or not.
00:22:08.000 Say it.
00:22:10.000 I think I signed a piece of paper saying I'd get sued for 60,000 euros if I said nothing.
00:22:17.000 There's a point in this process where you have to acknowledge that the main criticism of hybridity in cars is mass, is weight.
00:22:26.000 Right.
00:22:27.000 So everyone says it's too heavy.
00:22:29.000 But for me, mass is just a number unless you can feel it.
00:22:33.000 It's really important.
00:22:34.000 You can't just criticise something because it's heavy.
00:22:36.000 You can't.
00:22:37.000 Because actually, it might affect the way the car drives, but you have to drive it to tell that first.
00:22:42.000 That's where I have a job.
00:22:46.000 I won't talk about the M5 because I think I might get sued.
00:22:49.000 But I can tell you now, the BMW M2 is a small performance car that came out.
00:22:54.000 1,750 kilograms.
00:22:56.000 My friend Tom Segura had one of those that he sent off to get juiced up.
00:23:00.000 I forget, Dinan did it?
00:23:02.000 Yeah.
00:23:02.000 I forget who did it.
00:23:03.000 Well, the new one came out and it was 300 kilograms heavier than the last one.
00:23:06.000 And the internet had a massive collective baby and went, oh, it's fucking ruined.
00:23:11.000 I ran one for six months.
00:23:12.000 It was better than the last M2. Of course it was.
00:23:14.000 Really?
00:23:15.000 Yes, because someone German with a massive forehead and a white coat made it that way.
00:23:20.000 Because these are really clever people.
00:23:22.000 And actually, mass only matters if you can feel it.
00:23:26.000 So if you drive a car and you can feel it's too heavy, fine, I'm with you.
00:23:30.000 And that's the clearest to what I think about the new M5. Judge it.
00:23:34.000 Get in it and judge it before you actually, or drive it before you judge it.
00:23:38.000 And that's what it looks like.
00:23:39.000 God, it looks good.
00:23:41.000 It's a 700 and something horsepower sedan with a BMW badge.
00:23:46.000 Look, 727. When is that coming out?
00:23:49.000 The launch is at the end of this year.
00:23:52.000 It is, it's a beast.
00:23:55.000 I could only imagine.
00:23:55.000 I had an M5. I miss it.
00:23:57.000 Was it the V10 or the V8 one?
00:23:59.000 It was V8. E39. Yeah, I had it in...
00:24:03.000 What year was it?
00:24:06.000 2015 or something?
00:24:07.000 What was that?
00:24:08.000 Which one would that be?
00:24:09.000 That would have been the V10. It wasn't a V10. Was it not?
00:24:11.000 It was the one after the V10. Oh, that would be the F10. Yeah.
00:24:14.000 The F10M. Yeah.
00:24:17.000 I'm a real nerd.
00:24:18.000 I loved it.
00:24:19.000 It's a good car.
00:24:19.000 It was great.
00:24:20.000 And actually, an M car...
00:24:23.000 And your E46 is the definition of this.
00:24:25.000 An M car should be a car that the non-car nerd can't spot it from the normal one.
00:24:29.000 But the car nerd can spot it just for the camber, a little bit of right height, a little bit of shoulder.
00:24:35.000 You can see an M car.
00:24:36.000 You and I can see an M car from a mile.
00:24:38.000 Little hips.
00:24:39.000 But a civilian cannot see an M car from a mile away.
00:24:42.000 Especially an E46 because it's such a plain looking car.
00:24:45.000 That's a gorgeous car.
00:24:46.000 We actually had someone reach out to Jamie.
00:24:48.000 That's how I bought it.
00:24:49.000 Because we were talking about how great they are.
00:24:50.000 I was like, I'd love to find a low mile one.
00:24:52.000 And this one has super low miles.
00:24:54.000 I forget what it is, but it's really low miles.
00:24:57.000 Emtek cloth is rare.
00:24:58.000 Yeah.
00:24:58.000 I look at the cars I missed out on.
00:25:00.000 There was a white manual Emtek on 18-inch wheels, E46 M3. And why I didn't buy it, I don't know.
00:25:06.000 But then, I suppose I could say there are about 1,000 cars that I wish I'd bought or I hadn't sold.
00:25:12.000 I wish you never sold that green Porsche.
00:25:14.000 Do you know what?
00:25:15.000 That...
00:25:16.000 I know who owns it.
00:25:17.000 It appears in the UK now and again, and I see it.
00:25:20.000 It was a cool thing.
00:25:22.000 But I had to realize early on that I couldn't afford to keep all these things.
00:25:26.000 But that thing was a masterpiece.
00:25:27.000 It was lovely.
00:25:28.000 But look where...
00:25:29.000 That was done by Tuttle, right?
00:25:30.000 And look where they are now.
00:25:32.000 They just come back from Pebble Beach with this GT1 amazing-looking thing, which you might have seen.
00:25:36.000 You googled GT1 Tuttle.
00:25:38.000 Doesn't he have a car that goes to 10,000...
00:25:40.000 11,000 RPMs?
00:25:42.000 That's so nuts!
00:25:43.000 Yeah, it's a lovely thing that he developed with a friend of ours called Philip Kodori who obviously runs the Quail.
00:25:50.000 And it's...
00:25:51.000 So K has...
00:25:52.000 It's a very good name, isn't it?
00:25:53.000 It's a 911K developed by a guy called Kodori.
00:25:58.000 K for Kodori.
00:25:58.000 And it revs for 11,000 RPM. 911K. It's my favourite car name ever.
00:26:03.000 I've driven it.
00:26:04.000 There's a video online of that in this gold thing.
00:26:06.000 How is it?
00:26:07.000 You need to sit down after driving it.
00:26:09.000 Because it's just...
00:26:10.000 It's just so...
00:26:13.000 Visceral.
00:26:13.000 It's one of the few cars that you're aware of just how fast that crank is spinning, and you have to keep it revving, and it just keeps going.
00:26:20.000 And your eye says it's gone to eight.
00:26:21.000 You've got to stop now.
00:26:22.000 I'm going to have bits of metal coming out the side of the engine, but it never does.
00:26:25.000 Wow.
00:26:26.000 And it's so light.
00:26:27.000 Everything's carbon, so it's about 900 kilograms.
00:26:30.000 Wow.
00:26:30.000 Yeah, you'd love that.
00:26:31.000 That's very basic.
00:26:34.000 Intravenous performance, that is.
00:26:36.000 How light did you get your green card down, dude?
00:26:38.000 Is that it?
00:26:39.000 What is that?
00:26:39.000 So that's what they've just done.
00:26:40.000 So Tuttle did the GT1. He's just launched that at Pebble Beach.
00:26:43.000 Wow.
00:26:44.000 Look at that.
00:26:45.000 That looks...
00:26:45.000 I hate the wheels.
00:26:47.000 But God, that looks amazing.
00:26:47.000 But again, I've got to be careful.
00:26:48.000 I work for Singer.
00:26:49.000 I love Singer.
00:26:50.000 I love Singer, too.
00:26:51.000 Singer amazing, but that's my friend Richard's just done that.
00:26:53.000 Can you get me a picture of a Singer?
00:26:54.000 Why are the wheels so gross?
00:26:57.000 Because they're supposed to look like 80s wheels from Le Mans.
00:27:01.000 Yeah, let that go.
00:27:02.000 Yeah, I think you might be right.
00:27:03.000 I'm 100% right.
00:27:05.000 Those wheels are disgusting.
00:27:07.000 The 911K is an amazing thing.
00:27:10.000 And maybe if I was Porsche or another car maker, I'd be starting to cry foul.
00:27:16.000 Because what's happened is the Restomod thing is actually a movement that reminds car makers that they're not being given or being offered a fair crack at the whip now.
00:27:27.000 Because you can come along.
00:27:29.000 You and I could establish the Monkey and Joe car company tomorrow.
00:27:33.000 Right.
00:27:34.000 And we could find a car.
00:27:34.000 We could say, right, we're going to make an E46 M3. We're going to buy 100 good E46 M3s and we're going to turn them into the Joe and Monkey M3. And we're going to sell them for $300,000.
00:27:47.000 They're going to have a nice new interior.
00:27:49.000 They're not going to stray too far from the original philosophy of the car.
00:27:51.000 Everyone's going to love them.
00:27:52.000 And we wouldn't have to meet any kind of crash legislation.
00:27:56.000 Smog would be, according to the vehicle, age.
00:27:59.000 In Europe, there's even less to do.
00:28:01.000 It comes under very low volume approval.
00:28:03.000 You don't have to do anything.
00:28:04.000 We don't have to meet any emissions regs, really, in Europe.
00:28:07.000 You can do what you want.
00:28:08.000 But if you're called BMW, you cannot make that car.
00:28:13.000 And I'm not sure that's fair.
00:28:15.000 Right, like what Ruff does.
00:28:16.000 Yeah.
00:28:17.000 That's not even really a Porsche.
00:28:19.000 Well, it has its own chassis plate.
00:28:21.000 It's a really grey area, but I think it's unfair on the car companies in many ways, because they can't go out and do that.
00:28:27.000 Right.
00:28:27.000 They can't make a restomod.
00:28:29.000 Porsche could not make a Singer.
00:28:32.000 They could, but they'd have to establish a new co-op.
00:28:37.000 Or they'd have to buy a company.
00:28:39.000 But could Porsche make restomods of their vehicles?
00:28:44.000 I think they potentially could.
00:28:47.000 But they'd be terrified, I suspect, of the potential litigation.
00:28:52.000 Right.
00:28:52.000 Because if one of them went into a wall, you get to sue Porsche.
00:28:57.000 Right.
00:28:57.000 Right.
00:28:58.000 Also, especially if you're selling something like one of those old Widowmakers, and people don't understand that if...
00:29:04.000 I mean, I have a 2007 GT3 RS, and it's still like around corners.
00:29:12.000 You let off the gas, it'll whip around on you.
00:29:15.000 Yeah.
00:29:16.000 The new ones don't really do that that much.
00:29:17.000 The new ones are much better.
00:29:19.000 They've got this rear steer on them, which definitely helps, but they'll still rotate.
00:29:24.000 Yeah, just the engine out the back.
00:29:27.000 You add that to an old design.
00:29:31.000 It's less prominent now because tyre technology has moved on so much.
00:29:35.000 I remember the first time I got to drive a lot of these things.
00:29:38.000 I didn't quite understand the Widowmaker tag.
00:29:44.000 Because they had new tires.
00:29:45.000 They had these new tires.
00:29:46.000 Tires are everything.
00:29:48.000 I'll tell you a Top Gear story.
00:29:50.000 It's fairly interesting.
00:29:52.000 My colleague, called Paddy McGinnis, who's one of the co-hosts, whose claim to fame for me in America is...
00:30:00.000 He had to be subtitled in America for Top Gear because his accent is so broad from the North of England he had subtitles.
00:30:06.000 It's like watching Peaky Blinders.
00:30:08.000 Yeah, no, it's worse than that.
00:30:10.000 Anyhow, he crashed a Lamborghini when we were filming and it was all over the press in the UK. It helped it was red, like proper dog-knob red Lamborghini goes off the road.
00:30:19.000 Anyhow, at the end of it all, the car's on a low loader and I look at the tyres.
00:30:25.000 They're 20 years old.
00:30:26.000 Oh God, yeah.
00:30:28.000 It had been borrowed for the job.
00:30:30.000 You know, old tire technology matched with age as well.
00:30:34.000 It's terrible.
00:30:35.000 That's the story with the guy from Fast and the Furious.
00:30:39.000 What's his name?
00:30:39.000 Paul Walker.
00:30:40.000 Paul Walker.
00:30:41.000 Paul Walker.
00:30:41.000 That's the story with him.
00:30:42.000 They had old tires on that car.
00:30:44.000 So Paddy gets eviscerated in the press because he can't drive and everything else.
00:30:48.000 I could have been in that car.
00:30:49.000 I'd have crashed it.
00:30:50.000 I can drive a bit.
00:30:51.000 Anyone.
00:30:52.000 You cannot.
00:30:53.000 If you get in these old cars with old tires on them, they have nothing.
00:30:58.000 Absolutely nothing.
00:30:59.000 It's incredible how much the technology has come along in that regard.
00:31:03.000 I'd say Michelin, at its best, some of it's like witchcraft.
00:31:09.000 If you get in a new Porsche GT3 RS now, the tire they've developed for that probably has four compounds across it.
00:31:18.000 You know, so the high wear stuff where it needs the grip.
00:31:22.000 They're so clever.
00:31:24.000 They really are.
00:31:25.000 The performance they add to the vehicle, no one knows.
00:31:28.000 How come no one can figure out how to make a tire without air?
00:31:34.000 It's a really, really interesting point.
00:31:36.000 They must have done.
00:31:37.000 For me, it comes under the same heading as someone must have made a light bulb that you never need to replace.
00:31:42.000 But why would they make it?
00:31:44.000 Well, the tire without air thing, for safety purposes, there's a lot of reasons why you would want a tire that...
00:31:50.000 I mean, I know they did bake them.
00:31:51.000 They do have them.
00:31:52.000 There's this tire that looks like a sort of spring.
00:31:55.000 You know that Adidas shoe that has the sort of lattice?
00:31:57.000 Yes.
00:31:58.000 It looks a bit like that.
00:31:59.000 Yeah, I have seen those.
00:32:01.000 But I suppose you're still dealing with a...
00:32:03.000 At that point, it's a sprung mass, which would interfere with suspension.
00:32:07.000 I don't have an answer for you.
00:32:08.000 You think that's what it is?
00:32:09.000 It's like it's heavier?
00:32:10.000 I don't know.
00:32:11.000 Because there's no air in it?
00:32:12.000 That makes sense.
00:32:13.000 Because you'd have so much more rubber.
00:32:14.000 But I think they tried to mitigate that by having it clear, so you see through it.
00:32:19.000 There were some shots of one recently.
00:32:21.000 I have to assume there's only two reasons you wouldn't make it.
00:32:25.000 One, it doesn't work.
00:32:27.000 Two, it gets in the way of your ability to make money.
00:32:31.000 Right.
00:32:32.000 Normally the latter.
00:32:34.000 Yeah, I don't know.
00:32:35.000 It's probably a performance issue, too, because by manipulating the tire pressure, you can get it just right, whereas you're not going to be able to manipulate anything once the compound is...
00:32:46.000 Exactly.
00:32:46.000 Yeah.
00:32:47.000 The more you get into cars, tires are a fascinating subject.
00:32:52.000 That's a good opener when you meet some of the opposite sex.
00:32:56.000 But it's never worked for me.
00:32:59.000 But actually, they are.
00:33:00.000 Because they're the only contact you have with the ground.
00:33:03.000 So it stands to reason they're the most important part of the performance package.
00:33:06.000 F1 commentators, and I'm actually slightly less so in the US, but in Formula 1, the commentators spend most of the time talking about tyres.
00:33:13.000 Because it's the main factor.
00:33:16.000 But they're not sexy.
00:33:17.000 Tyres are not sexy by definition.
00:33:19.000 So, you know, car makers will tell you, we've got a new damper system that's got eight settings, and we've got this and this and this.
00:33:25.000 They can't tell you that they've spent five years developing a tyre that's revolutionary.
00:33:30.000 Nobody cares, because it just looks like a tyre.
00:33:32.000 Yeah, it just looks terrible.
00:33:33.000 What are you showing me?
00:33:34.000 And when they come to replace that tyre, they'll just give me the cheap one.
00:33:37.000 I don't want to spend that money on that one.
00:33:40.000 Right, right, right.
00:33:42.000 So, your experience at Top Gear...
00:33:47.000 Yeah, that's interesting.
00:33:48.000 So I've never really spoken about it because I keep my mouth shut.
00:33:53.000 I like to remain dignified.
00:33:56.000 It's been quite a journey.
00:33:59.000 It's come to an end now.
00:33:59.000 I really feel it's a full stop.
00:34:01.000 The show has been put on hold in the UK indefinitely, is the terminology from the BBC. That means it's an end.
00:34:10.000 But strangely, it exists in other formats around the world.
00:34:12.000 There's been an American one.
00:34:14.000 There's one in Finland.
00:34:16.000 There's one in Australia.
00:34:17.000 There's one in France.
00:34:18.000 So the license and the brand exists elsewhere, but not at its home in the UK. And it came to an end for me one day in December 2022 in a way that...
00:34:32.000 I'd like to say I hadn't expected, but I had.
00:34:35.000 And I think that's the bit that I've found very difficult to deal with over the last couple of years.
00:34:41.000 Fundamentally, I'm quite a happy-go-lucky person.
00:34:44.000 I'm very privileged with the life I've had.
00:34:46.000 And I love the fact that I earn a living doing what I love.
00:34:49.000 You must have the same thing.
00:34:50.000 To wake up, what a joy.
00:34:51.000 I don't push a desk.
00:34:53.000 I get to wreck other people's tires.
00:34:55.000 And also, my subject is one that is surrounded by joy.
00:34:58.000 No one wants to hear.
00:34:59.000 The last person you want to hear from is the miserable car road tester.
00:35:03.000 Right.
00:35:03.000 He can fuck off.
00:35:04.000 Yeah, he can fuck off.
00:35:05.000 You know?
00:35:06.000 And I don't want to be that guy.
00:35:07.000 I hate those guys.
00:35:08.000 Yeah, but actually, I'd be lying if I said, you know, I feel good today.
00:35:14.000 I've had a good few months.
00:35:15.000 But the last 18 months, I've been bad.
00:35:19.000 Because I just didn't know what to do.
00:35:22.000 Because I'd like to sit here and say I never saw it coming, but I did.
00:35:25.000 So what happened?
00:35:28.000 The accident that my friend Andrew had, known as Fred, I won't go into too much because it's sort of out there what happened.
00:35:36.000 He rolled a Morgan three-wheeler.
00:35:40.000 He wasn't wearing a crash helmet.
00:35:42.000 And if you do that, even at 25, 30 miles an hour, the injuries that you sustain are profound.
00:35:48.000 I was there on the day.
00:35:50.000 I was the only presenter with Fred that day.
00:35:52.000 I wasn't actually right by him, but I was close by.
00:35:57.000 I remember the radio message that I heard.
00:36:00.000 I always used to have a radio in my little room at the test track where I was sitting inside so I could hear what was going on.
00:36:05.000 And I heard someone say, there's been a real accident here.
00:36:09.000 The car's upside down.
00:36:12.000 So I ran to the window, looked out, and he wasn't moving, so I thought he was dead.
00:36:16.000 I assumed he was.
00:36:18.000 Then he moved.
00:36:19.000 I can tell you now that he...
00:36:22.000 Unless he's a physical specimen, Fred.
00:36:24.000 He's a big guy.
00:36:26.000 Six foot five, six foot six, strong.
00:36:28.000 And if he wasn't so strong, he wouldn't have survived.
00:36:31.000 He's a great advert for physical strength and conditioning, because if he hadn't been that strong, he'd have just snapped his neck, he'd be dead.
00:36:39.000 So I couldn't believe he survived.
00:36:42.000 And that sort of, that moment of realisation that he'd survived has kind of defined my thoughts on the subject since.
00:36:50.000 Because I believe that anything after that is a bit of a bonus, you know?
00:36:54.000 He should be dead, really.
00:36:56.000 And the fact that he survived it is remarkable, and it's given him and his family a chance to move on under very difficult circumstances.
00:37:04.000 So that day was very difficult, made even more difficult by the fact that the build-up to that particular shoot...
00:37:13.000 I knew that we were, at the last minute I knew we were using a Morgan three-wheeler.
00:37:17.000 It's a very, it's a difficult car.
00:37:20.000 You know, it's by, it just, the name tells you its physics is complicated.
00:37:23.000 It doesn't mean it's inherently dangerous.
00:37:24.000 You just drive it according to what it is.
00:37:26.000 You have to be aware of its limitations.
00:37:28.000 And I think that, that really was difficult.
00:37:32.000 There were, and you need experience.
00:37:34.000 There were two people that had driven a Morgan three-wheeler before, present that day.
00:37:38.000 Me and someone else, a pro driver.
00:37:40.000 And we were sitting inside at that time.
00:37:42.000 No one had asked us anything about the car.
00:37:44.000 They'd just gone on and shot it without us.
00:37:46.000 And I think, if I'm looking in the mirror, I find it very difficult, even now, that Andrew, who I love to bits, a lovely man, he...
00:37:57.000 He was a pro cricket player.
00:37:59.000 He wasn't an automotive guy.
00:38:02.000 But he was a real enthusiast.
00:38:04.000 He was great.
00:38:04.000 Much like you.
00:38:05.000 He loved cars.
00:38:06.000 And he would always come up to me before a shoot and say, tell me how it is.
00:38:13.000 I've got all the advice.
00:38:14.000 Give me the last bit of advice on what I should do, what I should expect.
00:38:18.000 And that was the first, because of the call times that day, that was the first time we'd never had the chance to talk about How he might approach a difficult vehicle.
00:38:27.000 And that was the one day that it went wrong.
00:38:29.000 I find that very difficult to live with.
00:38:31.000 And I feel partly responsible because I didn't get the chance to talk to him.
00:38:35.000 But my situation is nothing compared to his.
00:38:39.000 Anyhow, the bit that I find really difficult is that In the aftermath of that accident, the show was put on hold.
00:38:48.000 Andrew had to recover from, frankly, awful injuries, and has done so, but profound injuries.
00:38:56.000 We all kept quiet.
00:38:57.000 We said nothing, and I said nothing because I wanted to look after him.
00:39:00.000 It wasn't my story, was it?
00:39:03.000 I was caught up in the collateral damage.
00:39:05.000 I lost my job immediately because they cancelled the show and my contract was up.
00:39:09.000 So suddenly I haven't got a job.
00:39:11.000 But again, you look in the mirror and think I'm alive.
00:39:13.000 I've got three beautiful children.
00:39:14.000 I'm not in Fred's position.
00:39:16.000 Andrew and Fred are the same person.
00:39:17.000 Sorry, that's his nickname.
00:39:20.000 And I just sort of got my head down.
00:39:25.000 But I had seen this coming.
00:39:27.000 There was a big inquiry, a lot of soul searching.
00:39:31.000 The BBC's good at that.
00:39:34.000 But what was never spoken about was that three months before the accident, I'd gone to the BBC and said, unless you change something, someone's going to die on this show.
00:39:47.000 So I went to them.
00:39:48.000 I went to the BBC and I told them of my concerns from what I'd seen.
00:39:52.000 As the most experienced driver on the show by a mile, I said, if we carry on, at the very least we're going to have a serious injury.
00:39:59.000 At the very worst, we're going to have a fatality.
00:40:01.000 Let's explain to people that aren't aware of what Top Gear is and how Top Gear works, because I know there's a lot of Americans that never watch the show.
00:40:09.000 You guys do a lot of really crazy stunts with automobiles, not necessarily just cars, but big trucks and all kinds of crazy things, and some of them are quite ridiculous.
00:40:21.000 Yeah, there was a bit of an arms race.
00:40:25.000 Between us and maybe the other big car show, the Grand Tour at the time, to go ever more stupid.
00:40:30.000 And we did do some big stunts.
00:40:32.000 And a lot of the time...
00:40:33.000 And the Grand Tour is the original cast of Top Gear, Jeremy Coffs and Richard May.
00:40:37.000 In their Amazon show.
00:40:38.000 Which time did they just end it.
00:40:39.000 It was a great show.
00:40:42.000 So, and also, I'm not of the health and safety world.
00:40:49.000 I'm not risk averse.
00:40:50.000 I love a bit of risk.
00:40:51.000 And I also absolutely believe that if you enter into a show like Top Gear, you know what you're taking on.
00:40:56.000 I believe that there is no such thing as great risk-free television like that.
00:41:03.000 I just turn up and I assess what I see and I do what I'm comfortable with.
00:41:08.000 And I want to make great television.
00:41:10.000 That's it.
00:41:10.000 And if sometimes it got a bit sketchy, so be it.
00:41:13.000 We've all done that.
00:41:14.000 That's the way the world lives.
00:41:16.000 And I think...
00:41:17.000 What happened with Top Gear was...
00:41:22.000 I saw repeatedly, too many times, my two co-hosts who didn't have the experience I had in cars.
00:41:28.000 This is the critical thing.
00:41:29.000 I'm qualified to make those decisions because I've done it a long time.
00:41:32.000 They weren't.
00:41:33.000 One of them is an actor-comedian.
00:41:34.000 The other guy is a pro-cricket player.
00:41:36.000 Brilliant entertainers.
00:41:37.000 They were great hosts.
00:41:38.000 But their roles were to make people laugh, and my role was to tell people what cars were like.
00:41:42.000 And all too often, in the last year, I saw situations where...
00:41:48.000 It got too dangerous.
00:41:49.000 And it culminated actually in us being in Thailand.
00:41:52.000 Myself and Paddy were in Thailand.
00:41:54.000 And we did a go-kart race down a hill in just compacted mud on wooden go-karts with no engines.
00:42:00.000 And I just looked at them and I said, this is just...
00:42:03.000 So it's not a question of whether we get injured, it's how injured we get.
00:42:06.000 So just have an ambulance at the bottom because something's going to go wrong.
00:42:08.000 Sure enough, I broke something in my hand, broke a finger or what have you.
00:42:12.000 And I just thought, which sounds ridiculous from your background, because you're all super tough guys, but it hurt.
00:42:18.000 No, I don't want to break my fingers.
00:42:19.000 And also, it was a shit piece of television.
00:42:22.000 So I always said, I don't mind breaking my hand if we get a BAFTA for it, or an award.
00:42:27.000 But this was just a shit skit, and I ended up damaged.
00:42:31.000 And it went on too much.
00:42:32.000 So anyhow, I went to the BBC and I said, I want to have a meeting with the head of health and safety, because this is not good.
00:42:39.000 And what's really killed me is that no one's ever really acknowledged the fact that I called it beforehand.
00:42:45.000 And it's very difficult to live with that initially for me.
00:42:50.000 When I knew, I thought I'd done the right thing.
00:42:52.000 I'm not very good at that.
00:42:53.000 I normally just go with the flow.
00:42:55.000 But I saw this coming.
00:42:57.000 I thought I did the right thing.
00:42:58.000 I went to the BBC. And I found out really that no one had taken me very seriously.
00:43:04.000 I did a bit of digging afterwards.
00:43:06.000 The conversation I had with those people was sort of acknowledged.
00:43:09.000 Then they tried to sort of shut me down a bit.
00:43:12.000 And then they didn't look after me at all.
00:43:14.000 They just sort of left me to rot.
00:43:16.000 And I... Even now, I'm totally perplexed by the whole thing.
00:43:21.000 To actually say to an organisation...
00:43:24.000 This is going to go wrong.
00:43:25.000 And then be there the day that it goes wrong is a position I never expected to be in and I never want to be in again.
00:43:32.000 It's strange and pretty heartbreaking in many ways.
00:43:36.000 I love that show.
00:43:37.000 So did the conversation between you and the network completely stop after the accident?
00:43:44.000 They just sort of left me to sweat, really.
00:43:47.000 I just sat in where I live and drank whiskey.
00:43:51.000 I didn't have much contact with them at all.
00:43:53.000 Everything went quiet.
00:43:54.000 They had two inquiries into the accident commissioned, neither of which I had access to.
00:44:00.000 I pushed very hard to have access to the second one and saw some of it.
00:44:06.000 This is one of the most bizarre interactions I've had.
00:44:08.000 I sat down with someone from the BBC who was going to talk me through bits of the second inquiry into the accident.
00:44:15.000 And I'd already been told that I no longer had a job.
00:44:17.000 So I'd been told that Top Gear was done.
00:44:21.000 And at the beginning of it, he said to me, I won't name him, he said, I want to thank you so much for taking part in this, because it's really going to help us as an organisation going forwards.
00:44:30.000 I said, well, it doesn't really help me, I've lost my job.
00:44:35.000 And I'm always reminded of that old adage from a very brilliant BBC comedy show, which was, never commit an inquiry that you don't know the outcome of in the first place.
00:44:46.000 So, I don't...
00:44:47.000 The whole thing...
00:44:49.000 The whole situation was ridiculous.
00:44:52.000 And I've never told anyone that.
00:44:54.000 You know, I think...
00:44:55.000 And I want to tell people that I did...
00:44:57.000 Because a bit of me thought, as the experienced driver, do members of the public think that I didn't do enough to protect Andrew?
00:45:06.000 But I... And Paddy as well.
00:45:08.000 They both experienced other incidents on that show that I think were unacceptable.
00:45:23.000 Right.
00:45:28.000 Well, that is the problem with those shows, is they always want to keep pushing the limit.
00:45:32.000 And it's generally the producers who don't quite understand the limitations of the vehicles.
00:45:37.000 Yes, they don't have the experience of what it's like to actually be in control of that vehicle or what is possible.
00:45:43.000 Right, right.
00:45:44.000 So all too often it's, can you just do that?
00:45:46.000 Right.
00:45:46.000 And then you want to be a crowd pleaser.
00:45:48.000 You want to be the guy that can do it.
00:45:50.000 We had that on Fear Factor.
00:45:51.000 Yeah.
00:45:52.000 When I was hosting Fear Factor, there was a couple of times where I was like, what the fuck are we doing?
00:45:58.000 Especially the second season.
00:46:00.000 Fear Factor started in 2001 and went to 2007, and then we came back again in 2011, and we only did six episodes.
00:46:08.000 And they tried to make it just really ramped up.
00:46:11.000 And when it was canceled, it was actually canceled because people had to drink donkey sperm.
00:46:16.000 Yeah.
00:46:17.000 Which was pretty minor.
00:46:19.000 I mean, it's disgusting, but it wasn't anything that was going to risk anyone's lives.
00:46:24.000 But I was really feeling like, if this keeps going, the stunts are so spectacular and so big.
00:46:30.000 We're launching cars through moving trains.
00:46:33.000 There was a moving train, and then the train had all these cardboard boxes in it.
00:46:37.000 We launch a car off a ramp, like sideways, and it goes through the train.
00:46:43.000 You have to time it just right so you don't hit the car into one of the big metal...
00:46:49.000 And someone in the car?
00:46:50.000 Yeah, driving it, yeah.
00:46:52.000 Oh, yeah.
00:46:53.000 My experience of that now is that if you establish really big stunts that have big vision and are ambitious, they tend to come with them a level of rigor that means they are executed well.
00:47:08.000 The difficult area is the kind of just being at a test track with a smaller crew and someone says, give that a go.
00:47:14.000 That's when it goes wrong.
00:47:16.000 Because no one's really thought about it.
00:47:18.000 They're saying, well, we've done the risk assessment, but just give that a go while you're here.
00:47:23.000 I think that goes wrong.
00:47:24.000 And also, my experience, and this is why everyone that's shot with me will be reminded of this now and again.
00:47:31.000 Close or play.
00:47:32.000 End of the day.
00:47:34.000 That's when it goes wrong.
00:47:35.000 If you're on a test track, the light's coming down, there's 10 minutes to go, and the director says, just do that.
00:47:41.000 I go, no.
00:47:42.000 Because everyone's tired.
00:47:43.000 Someone's going to have ignored the lockdown on the circuit.
00:47:46.000 There'll be someone coming driving the other way with the coffee cups over there.
00:47:49.000 Or it's the end of the day.
00:47:52.000 If it's 6 o'clock, 5.30, I'm gone.
00:47:54.000 I'm not because I'm work shy.
00:47:55.000 I'll stay around and pick stuff up.
00:47:57.000 But at the end of the day, when you start rushing, And I think there was an element of that day at Dunsfold, that was a shoot that was rushed for me.
00:48:08.000 I know that that was a, we need to use this day shoot.
00:48:12.000 That's another one that's another red flag for me.
00:48:14.000 We've got a day at a track, we need to fill it.
00:48:17.000 Well, you've reverse engineered that, you know?
00:48:20.000 Right.
00:48:21.000 Your priorities are already to fill something up.
00:48:23.000 And I look back, some of the stuff that we did on Top Gear, I look back, that was dangerous, visually dangerous, and definitely was in practical terms, I'm very proud of because we executed it well.
00:48:35.000 Like, Andrew, Fred Flintoff went off a dam in a metro and did a car bungee.
00:48:40.000 It was an extraordinary piece of footage.
00:48:43.000 You can see it.
00:48:43.000 It was just an amazing film.
00:48:45.000 But it was rigorous.
00:48:46.000 It was done properly.
00:48:47.000 There has an amazing stunt crew that did it.
00:48:49.000 I mean, I couldn't have done it.
00:48:50.000 It was brave and it was a really memorable piece of television.
00:48:54.000 That.
00:48:55.000 What a legend.
00:48:57.000 And he's got me in his ear.
00:48:59.000 He sat like that for 45 minutes.
00:49:01.000 Look how far down that thing goes.
00:49:05.000 And I think I'm very proud of what the team did there.
00:49:09.000 And Andrew was magnificent.
00:49:11.000 Dude, fuck that.
00:49:12.000 Can you imagine?
00:49:13.000 Fuck that.
00:49:15.000 Because if it goes wrong, you're dead.
00:49:17.000 Yeah, and he's got that chirpy little shit in his ear as well.
00:49:20.000 I think...
00:49:21.000 And there's other stuff that we did that I can't understand what we were doing.
00:49:25.000 So we also did...
00:49:26.000 And you won't find this.
00:49:26.000 I think they've removed it from YouTube.
00:49:28.000 There's a...
00:49:30.000 Oh my god.
00:49:30.000 How about that?
00:49:32.000 That's so insane.
00:49:34.000 How about that?
00:49:35.000 Look at when it goes over itself like that.
00:49:37.000 Oh my god.
00:49:38.000 That is so ridiculous.
00:49:42.000 And then the yank.
00:49:45.000 Oh.
00:49:46.000 But that, you know, when I said to you earlier a bit of me regrets doing it, I look at that and I think, what a thing to have been part of.
00:49:55.000 It's ridiculous.
00:49:57.000 Yeah.
00:49:58.000 And I'm proud of that stuff.
00:50:00.000 One thing we did do, which, again, on reflection, was just madness.
00:50:06.000 There are these guys that go to motorcycle meets and shows in the UK that have these titanium skid plates on their boots, and they hold onto the back of the bike.
00:50:15.000 You might have seen them.
00:50:16.000 And they go really fast, and the sparks go out the back.
00:50:21.000 And...
00:50:23.000 We decided it would be a good idea if we did this.
00:50:25.000 So each of us had a vehicle we were using, or you were the person that was pushing that vehicle.
00:50:30.000 You're an advocate for that car in the film.
00:50:33.000 And I think I had the new Land Rover Defender.
00:50:35.000 You've seen those.
00:50:36.000 I had a short wheelbase Defender.
00:50:37.000 And I had to hang off the back of it wearing these shoes.
00:50:41.000 The big problem with some of these ones is that Andrew was so brave, he would go first, and set such a high benchmark, you'd have to go, shit, I need to really go here.
00:50:49.000 So he went out and did like, I thought he'd do 40 miles an hour, I think he did 75 miles an hour, hanging on the back, wearing these titanium shoes.
00:50:56.000 Anyhow, Paddy gets in and tries to go really fast, and he falls off.
00:51:01.000 And he's okay, but someone goes, Paddy's over.
00:51:04.000 I look left, the ambulance driver was having a cigarette.
00:51:08.000 At our end of the runway, and he was two miles down there.
00:51:11.000 And that was one of those moments where I thought, this has got a bit loose.
00:51:15.000 If you're going to do these things, that guy should have been running parallel.
00:51:19.000 And I didn't like that.
00:51:22.000 Two minutes of two miles, it's a long time.
00:51:24.000 I know.
00:51:25.000 Although the end of that was quite...
00:51:26.000 I can give you some levity there.
00:51:28.000 I did my run.
00:51:29.000 I didn't get quite as close as I did.
00:51:30.000 I think I did nearly 80 miles an hour or something.
00:51:33.000 And I fell off at the end and it hurt a bit.
00:51:35.000 And I got in the back of the crew car, which I think was another Land Rover.
00:51:39.000 And I was sitting there thinking, this smells terrible.
00:51:41.000 Have I done something wrong here?
00:51:42.000 There's a really acrid smell.
00:51:44.000 Not from the colon, but definitely I thought this is not a good smell.
00:51:48.000 Like a chemical smell?
00:51:49.000 Yeah.
00:51:49.000 And then I was told to get out.
00:51:51.000 What had happened was the shoes were red hot.
00:51:53.000 And I'd got in the car and they just melted straight through the carpet.
00:51:56.000 And it was just smouldering on fire.
00:51:59.000 I look like a shit Marvel superhero.
00:52:02.000 Yeah, I think I'm very happy and proud to have done Top Gear, but I'm so sad at the way it ended.
00:52:15.000 That's the ultimate.
00:52:16.000 No one had control of that that day.
00:52:18.000 That's what the insurance industry calls an act of God, whether you believe in him or not.
00:52:23.000 But what happened afterwards was really sad.
00:52:25.000 Because I've arrived here.
00:52:28.000 You've got your crew.
00:52:28.000 You've got your people.
00:52:30.000 They were my people.
00:52:31.000 And from that day, I've never really spoken to them.
00:52:34.000 The producers, everyone else, no one really.
00:52:37.000 It just went like that.
00:52:39.000 Bang.
00:52:40.000 Done.
00:52:40.000 And that was very hard.
00:52:42.000 Because I just couldn't believe it had happened.
00:52:46.000 They're just gone.
00:52:47.000 And you spend five, six years of your life more...
00:52:52.000 I was always torn on those type of moments on Top Gear because I just wanted to watch car reviews.
00:53:00.000 I wanted to watch people have fun with cars.
00:53:02.000 But then for the casual people, you have to do something stupid like bungee jump with a car off the side of a dam.
00:53:10.000 It's like...
00:53:11.000 I'm not interested.
00:53:12.000 Maybe it's because I hosted Fear Factor for so long.
00:53:14.000 I've seen so many things like that.
00:53:16.000 They're not interesting to me.
00:53:17.000 I want to hear a car enthusiast rave about the fun they're having while they're driving an automobile.
00:53:24.000 Maybe you should produce a car show.
00:53:26.000 I've got an idea.
00:53:27.000 I'll pitch it to you afterwards.
00:53:28.000 But you're quite right.
00:53:30.000 There's plenty of market for that.
00:53:32.000 There is.
00:53:33.000 And actually, this is the country for it.
00:53:36.000 Maybe in Europe it's less.
00:53:37.000 But I know that when we did geeky car stuff that was very, you know, for you and I, the numbers did that.
00:53:44.000 And the moment you did something hyperbolic and ridiculous, the numbers did that.
00:53:48.000 But what about online?
00:53:49.000 Online is totally different.
00:53:51.000 Yes, right?
00:53:52.000 So that's where it belongs.
00:53:53.000 Right.
00:53:54.000 Like, where I found about you was online.
00:53:56.000 Yeah.
00:53:56.000 You know, and I don't remember what was the first video that I watched of you, but I do remember that green Porsche.
00:54:01.000 Yeah.
00:54:01.000 I remember that.
00:54:02.000 That's a long time ago.
00:54:03.000 Oh, my God.
00:54:04.000 And that's where I started out, and I suspect I'll return there.
00:54:07.000 You know, I've got plans to relaunch the YouTube channel in the next month or two, and there's content coming.
00:54:13.000 And I'm...
00:54:13.000 YouTube's a very different place to when I left it, and it's pretty surprising.
00:54:17.000 There's so much motoring content out there.
00:54:19.000 It's almost saturated.
00:54:20.000 It's very, very saturated.
00:54:21.000 And there's so many different types of markets now, too.
00:54:24.000 Yeah.
00:54:25.000 And the algorithm...
00:54:26.000 The idea of being at the behest of an algorithm...
00:54:28.000 It's terrifying.
00:54:29.000 If you've just received a check from a network for six years of your life, suddenly going, oh, I'll go in with the algorithm, that's quite scary.
00:54:37.000 It is, but all you need is one thing to take off, and then all of a sudden you're being suggested to millions and millions of people, which is interesting about the algorithm.
00:54:47.000 And if you just look at one type of vehicle, then you're...
00:54:52.000 I really just got interested recently in the Ineos Grenadier.
00:54:57.000 Yeah.
00:54:57.000 I was like, what a fascinating idea.
00:55:00.000 Take...
00:55:00.000 I mean, what a limited market, by the way, too.
00:55:02.000 Well, that actually, ironically, is the only example of a brand new resto mod, isn't it, really?
00:55:07.000 Yes, yes.
00:55:08.000 Similar.
00:55:09.000 I mean, it's essentially a new vehicle, but if you...
00:55:11.000 For the casual, it looks like a Defender.
00:55:14.000 Yeah.
00:55:14.000 It really does.
00:55:15.000 But it's kind of better.
00:55:16.000 Kind of quite a bit better.
00:55:18.000 Yeah.
00:55:18.000 And, you know, really interesting.
00:55:20.000 BMW, six-cylinder, supercharged engine...
00:55:23.000 And so now when I open up YouTube, it's like all Grenadiers.
00:55:26.000 It's all Ineos.
00:55:27.000 It's just constantly all these off-roading Australia dudes and all these different people sending me these things.
00:55:34.000 I think you're right.
00:55:36.000 It does belong on YouTube.
00:55:38.000 I mean, linear television.
00:55:38.000 I joined a TV show when...
00:55:41.000 Linear television still survived.
00:55:43.000 Well, you know, I understand.
00:55:45.000 Destination television, it's gone now.
00:55:47.000 It's gone.
00:55:47.000 The world's changed completely.
00:55:49.000 Top Gear still has a place in it.
00:55:51.000 You know, many of my previous colleagues make a lot of online content for Top Gear.
00:55:54.000 They do a great job.
00:55:55.000 There's some really good films.
00:55:57.000 But there's something quite romantic for me about the sit-down, squidge onto the sofa as a family and watch 8 o'clock Sunday night.
00:56:05.000 It was a quasi-religious experience, really.
00:56:09.000 But it was in a time where people didn't have smartphones.
00:56:12.000 You're quite right.
00:56:12.000 That's gone.
00:56:14.000 That waiting for a very specific time to watch a program, no one is interested in that anymore.
00:56:20.000 I know.
00:56:20.000 It's strange, isn't it?
00:56:21.000 Because it's logical that they wouldn't because no one has any patience because of the immediacy of these things.
00:56:26.000 Yes.
00:56:27.000 But there's equally something quite lovely about what we used to do.
00:56:31.000 Right.
00:56:31.000 I can't really reconcile it.
00:56:34.000 I totally acknowledge the excitement of the new, but I'm slightly wistful for the past.
00:56:40.000 Is that fair enough?
00:56:40.000 I see what you're saying.
00:56:41.000 The only thing that still exists that you have to wait for is live sports.
00:56:44.000 Yeah.
00:56:45.000 So live sports, when you're watching a game, the game starts at 8pm.
00:56:48.000 You have to be there at 8pm.
00:56:50.000 It's not going to wait for you.
00:56:51.000 There it is.
00:56:52.000 The podcast as a concept is amazing as well.
00:56:55.000 I've got to be a bit cheesy.
00:56:56.000 I have got a podcast.
00:56:58.000 When's this going to go out?
00:56:59.000 Is this going out a day after we record this?
00:57:00.000 Yeah, pretty soon.
00:57:01.000 Well, the day after that, my new podcast launches.
00:57:03.000 I didn't realize that.
00:57:04.000 What's it called?
00:57:05.000 It's a really, really interesting name.
00:57:07.000 Chris Harris and Friends Car Podcast is what it's called.
00:57:11.000 Because I just thought, well, it's Heinz Tomato Ketchup.
00:57:14.000 And that really is a nerd product.
00:57:17.000 So one of the things I did, by way of therapy, was I did a car podcast in the immediate aftermath of this accident.
00:57:23.000 Because I realized I wanted to have contact with this world.
00:57:26.000 I think that the moment your life gets difficult, you regress to what is your comfort food.
00:57:31.000 My comfort food is cars.
00:57:32.000 Right.
00:57:33.000 And I love cars.
00:57:35.000 They make me happy.
00:57:36.000 Well, I would much prefer you without producers and network executives and all these different people telling you what to do.
00:57:44.000 What I like about podcasts, what I like about YouTube content from people like Matt Farah, is I know it's one human being.
00:57:52.000 This is their perspective.
00:57:53.000 This is what they enjoy.
00:57:54.000 They really do love these vehicles.
00:57:56.000 And they talk about it without any influence of other human beings.
00:58:00.000 So you're getting this Yeah.
00:58:04.000 Yeah.
00:58:17.000 Is what I found very difficult on Top Gear.
00:58:19.000 Because I came there, I arrived as the rigorous car tester.
00:58:23.000 You put me with some comedians, put me with whoever.
00:58:25.000 I don't need to do that.
00:58:26.000 They'll do the heavy lifting.
00:58:27.000 They'll make people laugh.
00:58:27.000 But if you want to know whether the new M2 is any good or not, please give it to me and I'll tell you.
00:58:32.000 And the M2 is a good example.
00:58:33.000 When the first M2 came out, I was giving it to review for Top Gear.
00:58:36.000 And I just said, well, I'd like to just do a review of the car.
00:58:39.000 We've got a test track.
00:58:39.000 I'll slide it around and tell you what it's like.
00:58:42.000 Then move on.
00:58:42.000 Someone else can make them laugh.
00:58:44.000 But that wasn't enough.
00:58:45.000 They had a section of this where I was given this piece of testing equipment called the Pantometer 3000 or something just made up.
00:58:54.000 I had to put on these underpants which were going to tell people...
00:59:00.000 You know, whether my sphincter was moving faster in this vehicle.
00:59:03.000 I don't know what it was.
00:59:05.000 I look back and I should have just said, fuck off.
00:59:09.000 I don't do that.
00:59:10.000 It's just an embarrassing moment in my life.
00:59:12.000 But that was exactly...
00:59:13.000 They felt the need to augment the test.
00:59:17.000 With something stupid to draw in the casual viewer.
00:59:20.000 And that's where YouTube is brilliant.
00:59:22.000 Because YouTube doesn't feel the need to do that.
00:59:25.000 It can just cater for us nerds.
00:59:27.000 Whatever you're into, YouTube can deliver it without someone from a network messing with it.
00:59:34.000 What's really spectacular about YouTube is there's only one YouTube.
00:59:38.000 You think about how big the internet is.
00:59:39.000 Ah, there is in China, though.
00:59:41.000 Well, that's different.
00:59:42.000 I'll tell you a good story about that.
00:59:44.000 About, I don't know, eight years ago or so, I was at the Geneva Motor Show, the biggest car event in my world.
00:59:51.000 And this Chinese guy comes up to me and he's like, really, really grateful.
00:59:55.000 He's like, I'm so glad to meet you.
00:59:56.000 I want to say thank you.
00:59:57.000 I went, why don't I say thank you?
00:59:59.000 He said, because you've made such a difference to my life.
01:00:01.000 I'm like, I'm not the second coming.
01:00:03.000 I don't know what I've done to you.
01:00:04.000 He goes, because, you know, I host all of your videos on a channel in China and they've made me, like, loads of money.
01:00:11.000 LAUGHTER Heisman.
01:00:15.000 Sorry?
01:00:16.000 Yeah.
01:00:16.000 So I did a bit of research.
01:00:17.000 He has.
01:00:18.000 He's made lots of...
01:00:19.000 He just ripped them all off YouTube and hosted them.
01:00:21.000 Wow.
01:00:22.000 But there's no regulation.
01:00:23.000 Wow.
01:00:24.000 So he's just telling you he ripped you off.
01:00:26.000 But he thought he had no...
01:00:29.000 It wasn't like he had no shame.
01:00:30.000 He couldn't even see what he'd done wrong.
01:00:33.000 Right, right, right.
01:00:33.000 He's just like, thanks.
01:00:34.000 Well, China has Apple stores that aren't even Apple.
01:00:38.000 Does it?
01:00:39.000 Yes.
01:00:39.000 China has full Apple stores where they're selling counterfeit laptops, phones, everything.
01:00:47.000 None of it is really Apple.
01:00:48.000 I don't even know if they do phones anymore.
01:00:49.000 But they had Apple stores that Apple found out about that nothing was Apple.
01:00:57.000 Creating content in the last 10 years has become a really fascinating situation because I'm sure you felt the same when you started out.
01:01:06.000 If you produce something, you own it by definition.
01:01:09.000 It doesn't matter whether you're within a network or what have you.
01:01:11.000 The international property in your head is that's mine.
01:01:13.000 Right.
01:01:14.000 And content producers over the last five years have had to accept the fact that that is no longer the proposition.
01:01:20.000 People can do what they want.
01:01:21.000 You can't hunt them down.
01:01:23.000 And it's shameless.
01:01:25.000 And I still occasionally get engaged.
01:01:28.000 I don't look at the Instagram message thing very often.
01:01:30.000 But sometimes I'll just see someone saying, I'm just going to post this.
01:01:34.000 Do you mind?
01:01:35.000 And sometimes I'll go, well, yes, I do.
01:01:37.000 I went out there at three in the morning.
01:01:39.000 Right.
01:01:39.000 I nearly crashed that car.
01:01:41.000 I paid for those rear tires.
01:01:42.000 Right.
01:01:42.000 Why should you get the chance to monetize that for your channel?
01:01:45.000 Exactly.
01:01:46.000 What are you offering me?
01:01:47.000 Right.
01:01:47.000 Nothing.
01:01:48.000 I just find it really odd.
01:01:49.000 It's very odd.
01:01:50.000 Yeah.
01:01:51.000 And it's also, they feel like they could just say a few things, you know, like, hey, look at Chris Harris doing this.
01:01:56.000 And that's enough.
01:01:57.000 And also- That's enough of an alteration.
01:02:00.000 In their professional world, could you imagine if one of them was an accountant and I walked in and said- Right.
01:02:04.000 Right, I've got my books.
01:02:05.000 I can't add up.
01:02:06.000 I'm really disnumeric and I'm an idiot.
01:02:08.000 Just do those for free, will you?
01:02:10.000 Just do them.
01:02:11.000 No, he'll say, I want some money for that.
01:02:14.000 No, no, no, just do them.
01:02:15.000 And also, shut the fuck up and do them.
01:02:19.000 No other world works like that.
01:02:21.000 No, the content world is very strange.
01:02:23.000 It's very strange where people can use your stuff and do entire shows based entirely on your stuff.
01:02:30.000 Oh, it's just extraordinary.
01:02:32.000 But the Chinese example was the best for me, though.
01:02:35.000 I love that.
01:02:35.000 Well, the best is that he had no shame about it.
01:02:38.000 He thought he was doing nothing wrong.
01:02:40.000 Culturally...
01:02:41.000 They don't think there's anything wrong with that at all.
01:02:43.000 I mean, you have to take the Chinese car industry seriously now.
01:02:47.000 But 15 years ago, there used to be a sort of underground recess at the Detroit Motor Show where the Chinese car companies would be.
01:02:53.000 And it was a sort of...
01:02:55.000 It was a grim catacomb of...
01:02:57.000 I think?
01:03:16.000 I reacted terribly at the time.
01:03:18.000 I sort of understand now that if you don't get that from the age of one, you can't learn it afterwards.
01:03:24.000 Right.
01:03:25.000 But they were shameless.
01:03:26.000 And I can remember being, again, at the Geneva Motor Show.
01:03:29.000 You'd go to the, particularly the Japanese cars, and you'd want to sit in the back of a new one.
01:03:35.000 You couldn't, because there'd be Chinese engineers from car companies measuring them there.
01:03:40.000 It'd be like 20 minutes.
01:03:41.000 They'd have these laser rules out just getting all the measurements of the interiors and of the engines and stuff.
01:03:46.000 Can I look at that?
01:03:47.000 No, they'd be there for 20 minutes shamelessly just copying, scanning the car in broad daylight.
01:03:54.000 It's amazing.
01:03:56.000 They make incredible electric cars now, though.
01:03:59.000 Oh, they've stolen a march on everyone.
01:04:02.000 They really have.
01:04:02.000 China has made...
01:04:03.000 They make some unbelievable cars.
01:04:06.000 I've watched some of them reviewed online.
01:04:08.000 You can't even get them in America.
01:04:09.000 But I've watched some of them reviewed online, and they're just fucking fantastic.
01:04:14.000 They've definitely had an advantage over Europe.
01:04:18.000 I can't say for America, because you have Tesla, which is the only other...
01:04:22.000 I'm a global leader in that area, but the European car industry has been caught napping.
01:04:27.000 And it's a bit of a worry for someone like me that, you know, I'm very fond of a lot of the European brands, but they're struggling.
01:04:33.000 They're struggling to respond to this.
01:04:35.000 There are boats full of very impressive, very good value electric cars that have landed in Europe in the last six months.
01:04:41.000 There's also a problem with European cars in that European cars are always known for having a great resale value.
01:04:48.000 Particularly like Lamborghini and Porsche and like Ferrari.
01:04:53.000 You can actually make more money off of them in a few years than...
01:04:57.000 But not electric ones.
01:04:59.000 Nope.
01:05:00.000 That's the problem.
01:05:01.000 Like electric Ticans, you know, those things are gorgeous.
01:05:05.000 That's an incredible vehicle.
01:05:06.000 Good luck trying to sell that thing.
01:05:08.000 I saw Lucid Airs, which is a fantastic car.
01:05:11.000 Have you been in one of those?
01:05:12.000 No, I haven't.
01:05:13.000 Wow.
01:05:14.000 I've heard that Sapphire is magnificent.
01:05:16.000 It's extraordinary.
01:05:19.000 You're going to get like half the price of that thing in a year.
01:05:23.000 It's just fucking nuts.
01:05:25.000 I know.
01:05:25.000 The Taycan in the UK early won £30,000.
01:05:31.000 Unbelievable.
01:05:31.000 Someone paid £120,000 for that three years ago.
01:05:34.000 Crazy.
01:05:35.000 And it's still really good.
01:05:36.000 It is.
01:05:37.000 It's a very, again...
01:05:40.000 For particular people.
01:05:41.000 Maybe the point I didn't make earlier, I have to excuse myself for a bit of jet lag for my confused thoughts sometimes, is that the electric car has one unspoken fact about it.
01:05:54.000 It's for rich people.
01:05:56.000 That's what I find quite difficult.
01:05:57.000 There's a meritocracy about the motor car that I find appealing.
01:06:02.000 You can have a Bugatti Veyron or Chiron, or you could be some guy that lives in India that's got a little thing that costs 100 quid or $100.
01:06:11.000 You're ultimately getting the same thing.
01:06:13.000 You have the freedom to travel, to choose where you're going.
01:06:16.000 And I think, like you, I don't want to be told what to do.
01:06:21.000 And I think it's really important that that vehicle can take you where you want to go.
01:06:25.000 But the electric vehicle is for rich people, isn't it?
01:06:29.000 You think about it.
01:06:29.000 You show me the electric vehicle for normal people.
01:06:32.000 Well, it's terrible for people that live in apartment complexes.
01:06:35.000 It doesn't exist.
01:06:36.000 Unless you have some sort of a charging station where you park your car and everybody has one so you could leave it charged overnight.
01:06:41.000 It's rough.
01:06:43.000 But look at the cost of them.
01:06:44.000 Yeah.
01:06:44.000 Very expensive.
01:06:46.000 Terrible resale value.
01:06:47.000 Yeah.
01:06:49.000 It's a very flawed concept at the moment.
01:06:51.000 But as you say, the performance of them can be...
01:06:55.000 Your Plaid is a great example.
01:06:57.000 It's a time machine.
01:06:58.000 Yeah.
01:06:58.000 Yeah.
01:06:58.000 It's a time machine.
01:06:59.000 It really is.
01:07:00.000 It merges in traffic silently.
01:07:03.000 It goes faster than anything.
01:07:05.000 It doesn't seem real.
01:07:07.000 It's incredible.
01:07:08.000 And the new one that I'm getting, it's already sent to Unplugged Performance.
01:07:13.000 Are you aware of those guys?
01:07:15.000 So they tune them, do they?
01:07:16.000 Yes.
01:07:17.000 Because it needs to be faster, doesn't it?
01:07:18.000 No, they change the suspension.
01:07:20.000 It's not any faster.
01:07:22.000 They use the same powertrain, but they change the suspension, they widen the front and rear, and they upgrade the brakes.
01:07:30.000 They make it much more agile.
01:07:34.000 I think the main thing it needs is some sort of jet-washable, pressure-washable floor, because I think passengers will eventually shit kidneys out.
01:07:43.000 They're so fast.
01:07:46.000 They're shocking.
01:07:47.000 Roadster, which is going to be insane, which is basically vaporware now.
01:07:50.000 Didn't people pay full price for those things five years ago?
01:07:54.000 He's fascinating.
01:07:55.000 I know he's been on your show.
01:07:58.000 I don't know what to make of him.
01:07:59.000 I just love the fact that he's...
01:08:02.000 He's the ultimate disruptor.
01:08:04.000 He's come along.
01:08:06.000 He's seen an industry.
01:08:07.000 He's gone, that's ready for a shake-up.
01:08:10.000 And he's had a go.
01:08:12.000 With multiple industries.
01:08:13.000 Yeah.
01:08:14.000 That's what's crazy.
01:08:15.000 But the one that's pertinent to me, the two questions I'm asked most are, what do you think of the electric car revolution?
01:08:23.000 And its effect on the environment.
01:08:26.000 But also, what do you think about Mr. Musk?
01:08:28.000 I almost don't really have an opinion on him.
01:08:30.000 I just let him do what he does.
01:08:32.000 What I do know is I'm always fascinated what he's going to do next.
01:08:35.000 And that's all you need to know.
01:08:37.000 And the stuff that he's produced...
01:08:40.000 Ten years ago, there were not many Teslas on the road in the UK. Now they're everywhere.
01:08:44.000 I don't know any other vertical that's witnessed penetration like that.
01:08:49.000 If I walk into a white goods store, I'm not seeing fridges made by companies I hadn't even heard of ten years ago.
01:08:55.000 But the second most expensive thing you'll ever buy is a civilian.
01:08:59.000 And he's managed to have that level of penetration.
01:09:01.000 That will go down in the history books.
01:09:03.000 Yeah.
01:09:04.000 It's undeniable.
01:09:05.000 Yeah, it's undeniable.
01:09:06.000 And it's also, he's doing that with rockets, and he's also doing that with the internet.
01:09:09.000 So he bought X or Twitter and turned it into X. And that's a massive disruptor too.
01:09:14.000 Do you do Twitter?
01:09:15.000 Whatever it's called now.
01:09:16.000 See, I left it because I got so much abuse.
01:09:20.000 Initially when I did Top Gear, that's when I got...
01:09:22.000 You can't read comments.
01:09:23.000 No, you can't.
01:09:24.000 But then you'd get drawn into conversations.
01:09:26.000 And actually leaving it was the best thing I ever did at that time.
01:09:31.000 And I haven't gone back.
01:09:32.000 Because I didn't really need it to promote anything.
01:09:35.000 And the toxicity was long before he bought it for me.
01:09:38.000 The toxicity is just an inherent quality of people being able to post anonymously.
01:09:44.000 You're never going to get away from that.
01:09:45.000 But you just don't read it.
01:09:46.000 That's the most important thing.
01:09:47.000 If you're a public figure, people are always going to have opinions of you.
01:09:51.000 And there's a lot of shitty people out there.
01:09:52.000 And they're the most vocal and they're the most persistent.
01:09:56.000 Let them talk.
01:09:57.000 Do you think in 50 years' time, You won't be able to post or comment without your identity being revealed.
01:10:05.000 I hope that's not the case, but probably.
01:10:07.000 I think they would like to do that in America.
01:10:09.000 But I think it's important for whistleblowers.
01:10:13.000 It's important for...
01:10:15.000 People that work in an organization, they want to expose corruption, they want to expose something, they want to expose some illegal thing they're doing in regards to the environment.
01:10:24.000 It's very important.
01:10:25.000 You have to have people.
01:10:27.000 They want to expose the government.
01:10:29.000 It's very important to allow people to be anonymous.
01:10:32.000 When you're in a dark place, as I was 18 months ago, you can feel that very pertinently.
01:10:37.000 There was a lot of very unkind things said about Andrew's accident and Top Gear afterwards.
01:10:43.000 I thought to myself, all those anonymous keyboard warriors, fuck you.
01:10:47.000 And you know this, I was almost at that state, which is the ultimate low, the Kelvin of human behaviour, which is, I'll meet you in that car park so we can have a fight.
01:10:57.000 You know how bad that is?
01:10:59.000 I couldn't do it as well as you.
01:11:00.000 But when you step back from it, Yeah, but I don't engage in any of that stuff.
01:11:04.000 I don't read negative things and I don't engage in it.
01:11:09.000 I'm not afraid of it.
01:11:11.000 I know what it is and I don't like it.
01:11:13.000 I don't think it's necessary.
01:11:14.000 I don't think it's good for you.
01:11:15.000 I don't think anybody gets any benefit out of it.
01:11:19.000 I don't think the person gets benefit out of you calling them a cocksucker.
01:11:21.000 I don't think you get any benefit out of calling them a cocksucker.
01:11:24.000 I don't think it helps.
01:11:25.000 And I just look at it.
01:11:27.000 I do what I call post and ghost.
01:11:29.000 Post things and I go away and I don't care what happens in the comments and and also I'm very aware of bots I'm very aware because we've done a lot of research and research We've done a lot of com we'd have a lot of conversations and done a lot of reading about the amount of content that's on especially Twitter and That's not organic.
01:11:49.000 And it's an extraordinary amount.
01:11:50.000 There's an FBI analyst that estimated it to be in the range of 80%.
01:11:54.000 Eighty percent of all the accounts he thinks are bullshit.
01:11:57.000 And they're used to promote specific narratives.
01:12:01.000 They're used to argue and shame people.
01:12:03.000 They're used to attack certain political figures and public figures.
01:12:08.000 And then that conversation becomes completely changed because there's a swarm of people that have a very specific narrative and then the casual person really, well, maybe they're right.
01:12:18.000 Hey, this guy is a piece of shit.
01:12:20.000 I always thought he was a nice guy.
01:12:21.000 And then everything changes.
01:12:24.000 Just don't engage.
01:12:27.000 I'm interested in reading people and their toxic opinions sometimes, but oftentimes I'll go, that doesn't seem real.
01:12:34.000 And then I'll go to their account and sure enough, they have 39 followers and it looks like they're probably in, you know, fucking Russia somewhere in a troll farm.
01:12:45.000 The pernicious side to it is like all the aspects of life that we know are bad and we shouldn't go there.
01:12:52.000 Be they alcohol or, you know, relationships, whatever it is.
01:12:56.000 If you're in a bad place, you're susceptible.
01:12:58.000 And that's what I find very difficult about that side of the internet.
01:13:04.000 Sure, if you're in a bad place, especially you after that accident.
01:13:07.000 Then it's a magnet.
01:13:08.000 It's like, it's just there.
01:13:09.000 It's the crab with its claw open.
01:13:10.000 You're like, everything's saying, don't put your finger there.
01:13:13.000 You can't.
01:13:13.000 But you do.
01:13:14.000 I don't.
01:13:15.000 And I did very briefly.
01:13:18.000 I'd actually left Twitter before then, but I couldn't believe some of the heartless comments that were made afterwards.
01:13:25.000 It's because they're not there.
01:13:26.000 It's a very inhuman way to communicate.
01:13:30.000 We're communicating in text to a person that you don't see their face, you don't look in their eyes, you don't feel the pain of what you're saying to them.
01:13:37.000 It's not the way human beings are meant to communicate with each other.
01:13:41.000 We're meant to communicate with each other like this.
01:13:43.000 I know.
01:13:43.000 That's one of the reasons why podcasts are so successful, and one of the reasons why I only do them with people in the room also, because the only person I've done without that in recent times is Edward Snowden, for obvious reasons.
01:13:56.000 But you don't want to...
01:13:58.000 That's not a good way to communicate.
01:14:00.000 It's not even a good way to communicate with your friends through text message.
01:14:03.000 No.
01:14:03.000 You want to be there talking so the person says something and go, Oh, okay.
01:14:08.000 I get it.
01:14:08.000 I get it.
01:14:09.000 So why did you think that?
01:14:11.000 But it's the cadence of conversation and also the quality of silence and the way that you respond.
01:14:16.000 And actually, I'm now going to say something terrible.
01:14:18.000 My podcast is done over Zoom, but it's the same voices every week.
01:14:22.000 So people become used to the cadence of conversation and they can actually...
01:14:27.000 I do believe relate to it.
01:14:28.000 The comments confirm that.
01:14:29.000 Well, there's nothing wrong with doing podcasts over Zoom.
01:14:32.000 The problem is with guests.
01:14:34.000 Exactly.
01:14:34.000 It doesn't work with guests.
01:14:35.000 Yeah.
01:14:35.000 It doesn't work with...
01:14:36.000 You can do it, but I know people that do it with guests, and they're fine.
01:14:40.000 They adjust, and they're very good podcasts.
01:14:43.000 I listen...
01:14:43.000 My friend Duncan does a lot of people through Zoom, and they're great.
01:14:46.000 They're great conversations.
01:14:47.000 But if you had to sit down and speak to a room full of young people about how to manage...
01:14:53.000 Third-party opinions of you on the internet.
01:14:56.000 What would you say to them?
01:14:57.000 Just ignore.
01:14:57.000 Yes.
01:14:58.000 Yeah, well, you have to be self-assessing, though.
01:15:04.000 You can't be a person that is clueless about how other people see you.
01:15:09.000 Yes.
01:15:10.000 Because that's not good either.
01:15:11.000 So you have to be a person who's objective and introspective, and you have to be able to honestly assess whether or not what you've done is good or bad.
01:15:20.000 And we've all done good things, and we've all had bad work.
01:15:24.000 And when you put out bad work, and you know it's bad...
01:15:27.000 Just accept the fact that it's bad, feel that pain, grow because of it, use it as fuel to be better in the next thing that you do, and that's it.
01:15:36.000 But don't wallow in other people telling you you suck or other people attacking you.
01:15:41.000 There's no benefit.
01:15:42.000 There's another side to that that I had to teach my other co-hosts on this podcast who weren't from a media background at all.
01:15:48.000 I personally believe that to ignore the negativity, you can't wallow in the positivity either.
01:15:54.000 I just think you don't have the right to just pick and choose what people say about you.
01:15:59.000 You can't just absorb the nice stuff and ignore the bad stuff.
01:16:02.000 That's just as bad for you.
01:16:04.000 Because then you're like, I'm pretty fucking amazing.
01:16:06.000 You know, that's bad for everybody too.
01:16:09.000 That's not good.
01:16:09.000 Nobody benefits from being told they're amazing.
01:16:12.000 You know if you did something that's good.
01:16:15.000 So congratulations.
01:16:16.000 You worked hard.
01:16:18.000 You put out something that's good.
01:16:19.000 Leave it alone.
01:16:20.000 Keep moving.
01:16:21.000 Keep moving.
01:16:22.000 Don't read all that positive shit and blow your head up.
01:16:25.000 And that happens to a lot of people.
01:16:27.000 They get enamored.
01:16:28.000 It's called audience capture.
01:16:30.000 One of the things that happens, particularly with comedians, you see, especially if they start getting involved in political commentary, they start getting audience capture.
01:16:42.000 You see it a lot with people who lean right.
01:16:45.000 Because there's not as many right-wing voices on the internet.
01:16:47.000 You get a tremendous amount of support.
01:16:49.000 All these people say, you're the only one out there speaking the truth.
01:16:53.000 And they're like, you're out there speaking the truth.
01:16:55.000 And you start believing that bullshit and then you change your perspective.
01:16:59.000 Yes.
01:17:00.000 Audience capture.
01:17:01.000 Yes.
01:17:01.000 Yeah.
01:17:02.000 That's dangerous too.
01:17:03.000 Yeah, when you're becoming conditioned by the environment you're in without realising it.
01:17:08.000 I think, actually, without a segue back to the BBC, I've seen that with that network I work with.
01:17:14.000 I think there's a lot of high-quality people that work at the BBC. And at the moment, they're under a lot of pressure, and everyone's judging them as individuals within the organisation.
01:17:22.000 I think the organisation, that environment, is almost impossible to work in now.
01:17:28.000 And it's changing them.
01:17:29.000 They almost have nowhere to go.
01:17:31.000 Well, they're also – it's like it's an unhealthy relationship in the first place because you have executives and producers who want to make a thing, but they're not the talent.
01:17:39.000 And so they're also not the experts.
01:17:42.000 So they have their own ideas, and they have to have some sort of an impact on it to justify their position.
01:17:48.000 So you see people having ridiculous suggestions that everybody has to entertain because Bob is an executive.
01:17:55.000 Okay, Bob is the fucking co-producer.
01:17:57.000 We've got to listen to Bob.
01:17:58.000 And Bob's got some stupid fucking idea that you have to hear out.
01:18:01.000 And if you say, Bob, it's not going to work because of this, now you're in an argument with Bob and Bob's mad at you.
01:18:06.000 Would you ever make television again like that?
01:18:08.000 No.
01:18:09.000 Done.
01:18:10.000 I've just finished something for the BBC, which this podcast is going to be, he's going to put the cat on the television.
01:18:14.000 So I've got one thing I've just done with the BBC, which is not car related, which will be my last thing I've done for the BBC, probably.
01:18:20.000 I did it with Paddy.
01:18:21.000 I loved it.
01:18:22.000 It was actually about wellness and trying to, you know, which is a word I fucking hate.
01:18:25.000 It's a captured word.
01:18:27.000 It's not even a word.
01:18:27.000 It's like mindfulness.
01:18:28.000 I can't believe I just said it.
01:18:29.000 I apologize to you.
01:18:30.000 Wellness and mindfulness have both been captured.
01:18:33.000 Spirituality as well.
01:18:34.000 Basically, it's about me having let myself go.
01:18:37.000 I'm a shit.
01:18:38.000 I let myself go.
01:18:39.000 I'm a bit better now, but you should have seen me a year ago.
01:18:41.000 And we've gone off and done three one-hour shows about...
01:18:44.000 Was that as a response to...
01:18:47.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:18:48.000 I sat and I drank world-class quantities of single malt.
01:18:54.000 Yeah.
01:18:54.000 I had made, I like a single malt, and I had built up a nice little collection.
01:18:59.000 You know, a really nice little collection.
01:19:01.000 I was quite disciplined.
01:19:02.000 I'd pour myself, you know, a beautiful Glen Farkless 25, and I'd enjoy it, and I'd put it away.
01:19:08.000 I did that collection in the first month after the Top Gear incident.
01:19:12.000 The whole lot gone.
01:19:13.000 Oh, wow.
01:19:14.000 And then I slipped into the full, you know.
01:19:16.000 It was terrible.
01:19:17.000 Alcoholism.
01:19:18.000 Yeah, and I don't look back on it as being, I now realize how bad it was, but I'm a bit of a box ticker.
01:19:26.000 Like, you have to, you can't talk about it unless you've done it.
01:19:30.000 I've done it.
01:19:31.000 So that was the box you wanted to tick?
01:19:32.000 Let's try being an alcoholic.
01:19:33.000 I didn't want to, but now I've done it.
01:19:35.000 I get it.
01:19:36.000 I get it.
01:19:36.000 And also, I was doing a weekly podcast.
01:19:40.000 My sort of decline was quite publicly documented.
01:19:43.000 Some people saw it.
01:19:44.000 Some people didn't.
01:19:45.000 But sometimes I'd see someone say, is he alright?
01:19:49.000 And I'm like, no, he really fucking isn't.
01:19:53.000 Where was I with that?
01:19:54.000 But I do think that the...
01:19:56.000 Yeah, if you start going down that route, it's a problem.
01:20:01.000 It really is a problem.
01:20:02.000 Yeah, it's a real problem.
01:20:04.000 I should say...
01:20:06.000 Mindfulness, wellness, what other words?
01:20:08.000 Wellness is worse than mindfulness.
01:20:10.000 They're both the same to me.
01:20:11.000 We went to...
01:20:12.000 So this show we did, and this is...
01:20:15.000 I'm not promoting it.
01:20:15.000 It was interesting because I like cars.
01:20:19.000 And the BBC had me, all I wanted to do was present stuff about cars.
01:20:22.000 And this organisation decided to send me off to go to Sweden to see what it's like, why they have a good quality of life.
01:20:28.000 I know they do.
01:20:29.000 I've got a lot of Swedish friends.
01:20:30.000 I've been to Sweden.
01:20:30.000 It's a fucking great place.
01:20:32.000 It was an amazing experience.
01:20:34.000 I loved it.
01:20:35.000 But it didn't involve cars.
01:20:36.000 And I want to be making shows about cars.
01:20:38.000 That's what I love doing.
01:20:40.000 That's the difference between being hired and doing your own thing.
01:20:43.000 There you go.
01:20:43.000 And I'm grateful for it.
01:20:44.000 And I think there's some really entertaining television.
01:20:46.000 Although we missed out one bit.
01:20:47.000 You talk about having to drink donkey semen.
01:20:51.000 Yeah.
01:20:51.000 There's a clip from this show that doesn't make it.
01:20:55.000 But I'm given this substance to drink by this guy who's got an impish grin.
01:20:59.000 And I'm that guy that'll eat most things.
01:21:02.000 If you've filmed Top Gear and you've been around the world, you've eaten...
01:21:04.000 Stuff you shouldn't have eaten.
01:21:06.000 As long as you've survived, it's another box ticked.
01:21:08.000 I never thought I'd eat a sheep's rectum, but it's fine.
01:21:12.000 It's a bit chewy.
01:21:13.000 But I was given this vial of liquid, and I drank it, and it tasted a bit like a really peaty single malt.
01:21:22.000 Imagine an Ardberg that's really peaty.
01:21:25.000 I was like, cool.
01:21:28.000 And on the label it said beaver.
01:21:29.000 I was like, okay, what's that?
01:21:32.000 And this Swedish guy said, it's essence of a beaver that we make liquid alcohol with.
01:21:39.000 So you flavour like a shine with beaver because it was strong.
01:21:43.000 And he sort of fudged it and moved on.
01:21:46.000 I was like, the flavour was in my mouth.
01:21:50.000 I couldn't get rid of it.
01:21:51.000 Transpires, this is a secretion from the anal gland of the beaver.
01:21:56.000 So I ate beaver arse.
01:21:58.000 I drank it.
01:22:00.000 What a secretion.
01:22:02.000 So someone milked a beaver.
01:22:04.000 Oh, boy.
01:22:05.000 And I drank it.
01:22:06.000 It wasn't that bad.
01:22:07.000 What's the benefit of this, supposedly?
01:22:08.000 It has some quality.
01:22:10.000 It does.
01:22:10.000 And, you know, if you see the average Swedish guy walking around, you're like, I'll have some of that beaver juice if I look like that.
01:22:14.000 Are they all drinking it?
01:22:15.000 I don't think they're all drinking it.
01:22:17.000 Are some of them drinking it?
01:22:18.000 Yeah, I think so.
01:22:18.000 Really?
01:22:19.000 It's popular over there?
01:22:20.000 It's for sale.
01:22:23.000 Does it have to be fresh?
01:22:24.000 What happens if you get a tainted one?
01:22:27.000 Here it is.
01:22:28.000 Tales from the Fringe.
01:22:29.000 Beaver gland vodka.
01:22:31.000 Wow.
01:22:32.000 So that's the beaver's butt right there.
01:22:35.000 The gland in the vodka.
01:22:37.000 Ten days later, I was in Japan.
01:22:40.000 Doing some other work.
01:22:42.000 And I remember my host saying, what do you think of that food?
01:22:47.000 And what I wanted to say to them was, I can just taste beaver ass.
01:22:50.000 Ten days later, my olfactory system, such as it is, was only registering beaver.
01:22:58.000 For ten days?
01:22:59.000 Every food I ate tasted of beaver.
01:23:02.000 Did you try to wash it out with alcohol or anything?
01:23:04.000 I tried everything.
01:23:06.000 Wow.
01:23:06.000 It's incredibly pungent.
01:23:08.000 What about fire spitting?
01:23:10.000 I didn't do that.
01:23:12.000 I must try that.
01:23:14.000 I was thinking, how did you burn it off?
01:23:15.000 I don't know.
01:23:16.000 You'd have to just get a new head.
01:23:19.000 Wow.
01:23:19.000 So it eventually just dissipated in time?
01:23:21.000 It did disappear.
01:23:22.000 But after 10 days, you still had it?
01:23:23.000 It was still there.
01:23:25.000 You know, when it's just there as a sort of residual taste?
01:23:28.000 I would have been so upset.
01:23:29.000 Yeah.
01:23:30.000 You motherfucker.
01:23:30.000 You ruined 10 days worth of meals.
01:23:32.000 But also, when I found out I hadn't made the cut, I was like...
01:23:38.000 I went to do the voiceover and it's not in.
01:23:42.000 That's so crazy.
01:23:44.000 But I, wellness as a concept is something that I, as a word, I hate.
01:23:50.000 And I'm proud of the show that will come out at some point.
01:23:53.000 But I like cars.
01:23:56.000 I want to make shows about cars.
01:23:57.000 And I will go, of course, I will go back to the internet.
01:24:00.000 That's where you belong.
01:24:01.000 You belong doing your own thing.
01:24:03.000 Chris Harris on Cars was awesome.
01:24:04.000 We might bring it back.
01:24:06.000 Yeah, do that.
01:24:07.000 I've got some, we've made some films, and I'm going to give it another month, and then we'll give it another go.
01:24:12.000 Well, a bunch of people were trying all these different things.
01:24:14.000 Like, they were trying to monetize it so you had to subscribe online or to access the content.
01:24:18.000 We did that.
01:24:19.000 It just doesn't work.
01:24:20.000 It doesn't work.
01:24:20.000 You lose 99.9% of people.
01:24:23.000 There's too much good stuff for free.
01:24:25.000 Yeah.
01:24:25.000 People have...
01:24:26.000 That's another thing.
01:24:27.000 We come back to that idea of this Chinese guy going, thanks for educating my children or whatever I'd done.
01:24:33.000 There is no monetary value placed on content now.
01:24:37.000 There's a few firewall systems that work.
01:24:39.000 I think New York Times and the London Times work, so I pay for that.
01:24:43.000 And I think they make money.
01:24:44.000 It works barely.
01:24:46.000 But they've had to work so hard.
01:24:47.000 They have been diminished greatly by the lack of people wanting to buy paper newspapers.
01:24:53.000 It's been a big impact on them.
01:24:55.000 It also changes the way they do journalism, because now everything's very click-baity, which is a real problem as well.
01:25:01.000 But the expectation is that content is now free.
01:25:03.000 Right.
01:25:04.000 How many listeners would you lose, do you think, if you put a paywall up for this?
01:25:08.000 Well, I lost 50% when I went over to Spotify.
01:25:11.000 Did you?
01:25:12.000 Yeah, initially.
01:25:14.000 Yeah, we lost like half.
01:25:15.000 But we got it back pretty quickly.
01:25:17.000 Yeah.
01:25:17.000 Yeah.
01:25:18.000 I think the way that we relate and interact with content is fascinating.
01:25:23.000 It is.
01:25:24.000 There's an ever bigger appetite.
01:25:25.000 These devices mean that the immediacy means that there can never be too much content.
01:25:30.000 I was pointing that out when I first saw you here, that you have the tiniest little iPhone, the little baby mini.
01:25:37.000 My friend Yoni has one of those too.
01:25:39.000 I admire it.
01:25:40.000 I admire that you don't even have a case on yours, which is even crazier.
01:25:43.000 Well, the iPhone's a funny thing because it's a bit like a steering wheel in a car.
01:25:48.000 That's your contact point.
01:25:49.000 It was designed to feel brilliant.
01:25:51.000 And the iPhone, with that metal ridge, is one of the most pleasing objects you'll ever pick up.
01:25:55.000 So why put a condom on it?
01:25:57.000 Because you don't want it to break.
01:25:59.000 It's made out of glass.
01:26:00.000 It's still working.
01:26:01.000 And I want an unsheathed phone.
01:26:02.000 Also, mine has a nice little kickstand.
01:26:04.000 Look at this.
01:26:05.000 Oh, what's that?
01:26:07.000 Yeah, look at that.
01:26:08.000 Yeah, when I'm sitting at the kitchen table.
01:26:10.000 But when I sit down, when I get in a car, I don't want something...
01:26:14.000 Oh yeah, those are disgusting.
01:26:15.000 I judge people so harshly when I get in their car and they have some stupid fucking thing on their steering wheel.
01:26:20.000 I'm like, what is wrong with you?
01:26:22.000 Who are you?
01:26:23.000 Do you wear mittens on top of that, you fucking idiot?
01:26:26.000 What are you doing?
01:26:26.000 I've come here briefly for two reasons.
01:26:29.000 One, because I want to be on this podcast, see you.
01:26:31.000 The other thing I've come to do in this state, and I'm going to need some help with this, and I'm not here for much longer, is I saw a bumper sticker advertised on That I think is the greatest bumper sticker ever created.
01:26:43.000 And it simply says, Texas is bigger than France.
01:26:48.000 That's it.
01:26:49.000 It's the statement.
01:26:50.000 And it's for sale online.
01:26:52.000 And I've got eight hours now to go and find it before I fly back.
01:26:55.000 But I have to get this bumper sticker.
01:26:57.000 Oh, we'll get you one.
01:26:58.000 It says, it literally just says, it's a statement.
01:27:00.000 It is the greatest statement made by any state or country.
01:27:06.000 It's quite a bit bigger than France, isn't it?
01:27:08.000 Where is it?
01:27:09.000 Yeah.
01:27:13.000 Okay.
01:27:14.000 I just love it.
01:27:15.000 Look at that there.
01:27:16.000 Yeah, it's kind of funny.
01:27:18.000 It's brilliant.
01:27:18.000 And I want that.
01:27:19.000 I have a...
01:27:21.000 Really, we were talking about this at the beginning before we got rolling, but it really is its own country.
01:27:26.000 Yeah.
01:27:27.000 It's very different than the rest of the country.
01:27:29.000 Yeah.
01:27:29.000 It's very independent.
01:27:30.000 And one of the reasons is the history of this place.
01:27:32.000 Like, for the longest time, the Comanche dominated this territory, and you couldn't get across the land.
01:27:38.000 And so the people that eventually figured out how to fight off the Comanche and settle down, they're the craziest, most rugged individuals ever.
01:27:47.000 That's the Texas Rangers.
01:27:48.000 They figured out how to cold camp, and there's a photograph of Jack Hayes, who's the original Texas Ranger, out in the lobby, and that's why he's there.
01:27:57.000 Like, without those psychopaths that figured out a way to fight off the most ferocious band of Indians that ever existed in the Plains.
01:28:07.000 No one would be here.
01:28:08.000 So they were very reluctant to join this whole union thing.
01:28:11.000 Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
01:28:13.000 Also, they've been conditioned to become...
01:28:16.000 Animals, you know, to be extreme fighters.
01:28:19.000 Once their battle's finished, they don't stop being fighters.
01:28:22.000 Right.
01:28:22.000 Well, it just flavours the independence of the entire state and the pride of the state.
01:28:27.000 How does Austin fit into that?
01:28:29.000 Because I think it's viewed as this centre of cosmopolitan life within a state that's known to be a bit different.
01:28:37.000 So how does that work?
01:28:38.000 It's good.
01:28:40.000 It's a balance.
01:28:41.000 So Austin is this preposterous, progressive, blue city that's surrounded by ranchers with guns.
01:28:48.000 So there's a saying, keep Austin weird and surrounded.
01:28:51.000 And I think that's accurate.
01:28:53.000 Because you've got a lot of universities here, you have some really intelligent, interesting people here, great restaurants, great nightlife.
01:29:01.000 But also you're surrounded by Texas, Texas.
01:29:05.000 The real Texas.
01:29:06.000 The majority of Texas is like ranchers and small town people and they're heavily armed.
01:29:15.000 That's the thing about being an English person, sorry, a British person.
01:29:20.000 The gun thing is totally foreign to us.
01:29:22.000 I'm not going to offer any opinion at all other than say that it's just foreign.
01:29:26.000 It really is.
01:29:27.000 And at times, I'm sure people in the UK would quite like to feel the security of having that about them.
01:29:32.000 But it's amazing driving around here as a British person thinking...
01:29:37.000 That person in that car has almost certainly got a gun.
01:29:39.000 Yeah.
01:29:40.000 Almost certainly.
01:29:41.000 We don't have that.
01:29:56.000 You can't just force people to go to jail.
01:29:58.000 You can't...
01:29:59.000 That was an issue also in Australia.
01:30:01.000 Australia, they took everyone's guns away after one mass shooting, I think, in the 1990s.
01:30:06.000 And they were able to round people up and put them in camps when they found out they had a cold.
01:30:12.000 It was crazy.
01:30:13.000 You can't do that in America.
01:30:15.000 The Second Amendment protects the First Amendment.
01:30:19.000 It's...
01:30:20.000 Maybe the...
01:30:23.000 What's transpired for me, having travelled here so many times and worked here so often in the last 25 years, is that because we speak the same language and we all look quite similar, we assume our countries are really, really similar, but they're not.
01:30:37.000 They're really quite different.
01:30:38.000 Well, you have a real caste system over there.
01:30:40.000 You have a class system over there.
01:30:41.000 And actually, they're both wonderful places.
01:30:43.000 I love coming here.
01:30:45.000 There's something about all of the states I've visited that I love.
01:30:49.000 And I have no strong opinions.
01:30:51.000 Maybe this is the older you get.
01:30:52.000 I no longer have strong opinions, really, about the way other people live their lives.
01:30:55.000 So that's what you do.
01:30:57.000 I don't have any opinion about that at all, really.
01:31:00.000 It's what you do.
01:31:00.000 It works for you.
01:31:01.000 And in the UK, we're different as well.
01:31:05.000 The older I get, the more emollient I become, I think, about that.
01:31:08.000 When I was young, I would have had stronger opinions about that.
01:31:10.000 But, you know, the way that Texas operates is Texas' stuff.
01:31:15.000 It's the way you do things.
01:31:17.000 And I'd have to be here a long time to fully understand the layers of it, the nuances of it.
01:31:23.000 And if you came to North Somerset, where I live, there's aspects of it that look, because we speak the same language, that look like they're straightforward, but they're not.
01:31:32.000 Everything has subtleties, doesn't it?
01:31:34.000 Yeah.
01:31:35.000 That's where I see it.
01:31:37.000 I think maybe to come back to some of the comments, it's when people become partisan, Without any real information that we have problems.
01:31:46.000 People always giving me their fucking opinion about stuff when they haven't stopped to consider it.
01:31:52.000 I'm not trying to dodge issues here.
01:31:54.000 You can probably tell I'm completely apolitical.
01:31:56.000 I just don't like politicians.
01:31:59.000 I don't care what side of the fence they sit on.
01:32:01.000 I'm deeply suspicious of people that go into a career of politics.
01:32:04.000 As you should be.
01:32:06.000 I don't profess to be one side or the other.
01:32:09.000 All of them...
01:32:11.000 I think the idea that we've created a system where you get promoted because you're inexpert is ridiculous.
01:32:18.000 And in my world, that manifests itself in transport.
01:32:21.000 I've never come across a transport minister in the UK that really has any idea what's going on or any interest or even uses fucking transport other than being driven around.
01:32:30.000 They're just bureaucrats.
01:32:31.000 It's ridiculous.
01:32:32.000 So that's my position on it.
01:32:34.000 Is I just sit there bewildered by what's going on.
01:32:38.000 And maybe where I am a total soft cock is I don't have the spine to stand up and shout about it.
01:32:44.000 But I just...
01:32:45.000 It's bizarre for me that we have inexpert people making decisions for us.
01:32:51.000 Hence our discussion about electric cars.
01:32:53.000 But also we have people that have the right to say whatever they want online without having stopped to think of anything...
01:33:00.000 That they were talking about or to research what they're saying.
01:33:03.000 It's remarkable.
01:33:04.000 But there's also this...
01:33:05.000 Because of that, because there's these shitty opinions and nasty people and all this information flowing around and bots and all this other stuff, it makes you consider the nature of speech.
01:33:17.000 And it makes you consider, like, what...
01:33:19.000 It gives you a choice.
01:33:21.000 Do I choose to engage in this kind of stuff?
01:33:23.000 Do I choose to read this kind of stuff?
01:33:24.000 Or do I just recognize it for what it is?
01:33:26.000 Like, I don't drink moonshine.
01:33:28.000 I don't go to the...
01:33:29.000 If I go to the supermarket and there's a jug of Moonshine, I'll go, well, I need to buy that and start drinking it.
01:33:33.000 No, I don't want it.
01:33:35.000 I know it's there.
01:33:36.000 I don't drink it, right?
01:33:37.000 So you can choose to avoid the things that suck in life.
01:33:41.000 You can, but through the prism of parenthood, I've got three kids.
01:33:46.000 I do as well.
01:33:48.000 That's where it gets tricky.
01:33:49.000 Yes.
01:33:49.000 And I don't know whether you've probably experienced this as well, but when I was first on Top Gear...
01:34:04.000 I love Top Gear.
01:34:16.000 For what I was doing for a living was very difficult.
01:34:19.000 Yes.
01:34:19.000 I found that very difficult.
01:34:21.000 Yeah.
01:34:22.000 It's crazy that people go after someone's kids for a television show about cars.
01:34:27.000 Like, what kind of a piece of shit are you?
01:34:29.000 If I was a political broadcaster or someone that was talking about the NRA, I can understand it.
01:34:33.000 I'm talking about the motor car.
01:34:34.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:34:35.000 Not the third world debt.
01:34:36.000 It's ridiculous.
01:34:38.000 But it doesn't matter.
01:34:39.000 It's just shitty human beings with bad lives that want to affect you.
01:34:43.000 When they go for your kids, I'll tell you something.
01:34:45.000 How about this?
01:34:47.000 Never said this publicly.
01:34:49.000 I had a phone call one day from a family home saying that my youngest child had been out skateboarding.
01:34:58.000 He's been skateboarding on some little lane.
01:35:02.000 When I heard that, I thought, why would he skateboard there?
01:35:03.000 It's really rough.
01:35:04.000 He'd just fall over.
01:35:06.000 But two people in a car had approached him and tried to coax him into the car.
01:35:13.000 It turned out it was two tabloid journalists that were trying to get some dirt on me.
01:35:17.000 But they tried to coax my child into the back of the car.
01:35:21.000 Oh my God.
01:35:22.000 And I agree with you that I want to have a sensible view of this world we live in.
01:35:28.000 But when you've experienced those things, or when you've had to sit down and speak to your kids' teachers about the awful things that are being said to them, just because their dad happens to present a TV show, it does change you a bit.
01:35:42.000 You don't come back from it completely.
01:35:43.000 Well, you recognize the real shit nature of some human beings.
01:35:47.000 Yeah.
01:35:47.000 And when you're confronted with it, we're kind of always aware there's bad people in the world.
01:35:51.000 But when you're confronted with it over such a superficial thing.
01:35:54.000 You're so right.
01:35:55.000 So refreshing to hear you say that.
01:35:57.000 It's just a car.
01:35:58.000 Yeah.
01:35:58.000 I deal in the least serious subject on the planet.
01:36:02.000 Yeah.
01:36:02.000 It's a motor car.
01:36:03.000 It's just being attached to that iconic name.
01:36:06.000 That's all it is.
01:36:07.000 And then also the way that show was cancelled because Jeremy punched a producer.
01:36:10.000 Did you have to work with the same producer Jeremy punched?
01:36:12.000 No.
01:36:13.000 That guy had left.
01:36:15.000 I met him once, shook his hand.
01:36:17.000 I never didn't know who he was.
01:36:18.000 I'm on Team Jeremy.
01:36:20.000 Yeah, he's brilliant at what he does.
01:36:23.000 If he punched the guy, the guy probably sucks.
01:36:26.000 Jesus, I'm not coming to you on that.
01:36:28.000 I'm going to get in trouble.
01:36:29.000 But I do...
01:36:31.000 If no one's ever really asked me what I think of Jim, I think he's just the best.
01:36:35.000 He's quite a fucking character.
01:36:36.000 And I shouldn't have...
01:36:38.000 Maybe I shouldn't have tried to follow him, but I wasn't trying to follow him.
01:36:41.000 I think what I now realise I was trying to do is I was trying to be part of the solution.
01:36:46.000 I knew I could do the driving bit, but I thought the other people could carry off the Jeremy bit.
01:36:52.000 And I now realise that's very difficult.
01:36:55.000 It's a difficult act to follow.
01:36:56.000 Yeah, you're not going to follow that.
01:36:57.000 You're just going to be different.
01:36:59.000 He's a completely unique person.
01:37:01.000 I think they did Elon dirtier than anybody ever did.
01:37:05.000 Oh, they were naughty with that.
01:37:07.000 They did a terrible thing.
01:37:08.000 They were naughty with that.
01:37:09.000 They did a terrible thing, and I talked to him about it, and he was furious.
01:37:13.000 They pretended that his car died, and they did it for a sketch.
01:37:17.000 And this is the early days of Tesla, when Tesla had just that little tiny car that was basically a Lotus with an electric engine.
01:37:24.000 Yeah.
01:37:25.000 That was called the Roadster.
01:37:26.000 That was the original Roadster.
01:37:27.000 Yeah, the original one, which is a cool looking little car.
01:37:29.000 And they pretended that it died on them.
01:37:33.000 And they did it for a sketch and they got away with it because it's entertainment.
01:37:36.000 And they were allowed to create a script.
01:37:39.000 And apparently someone had got a hold of the script and read in the script before they even filmed it.
01:37:44.000 Then the car dies.
01:37:46.000 And then we have to figure out why the car died.
01:37:47.000 So what kind of an impact do you think that had on the sales of his car?
01:37:52.000 I mean, it had to be extraordinary.
01:37:54.000 You're watching the most popular automobile show in the world, and they say your car sucked so bad that it died when they were testing it, when it didn't die.
01:38:03.000 You've got to be careful what I say here, but without wanting to shatter anyone's illusions, that's the way those car shows are made.
01:38:09.000 That's the way a lot of reality shows are made, unfortunately.
01:38:12.000 So ultimately, you reverse engineer an outcome.
01:38:15.000 So you're being told, this is what you're going to find.
01:38:18.000 This is what's going to happen.
01:38:20.000 All we need to do is, you've got to help us get there.
01:38:22.000 Now, in reality TV, I can understand it.
01:38:25.000 But if you're reviewing a product, as you say, that tens of thousands of people make and they rely on...
01:38:31.000 That thing's selling for their livelihood.
01:38:33.000 And you're just lying.
01:38:35.000 You're lying.
01:38:36.000 You're lying about this car breaking.
01:38:38.000 It did not break.
01:38:40.000 One of the biggest problems on Top Gear for me was when things didn't break.
01:38:43.000 So often the producers, and I understand why, they'd want stuff to break.
01:38:48.000 That was the joy.
01:38:48.000 Normally with the older cars we'd buy and mess around with.
01:38:51.000 But actually, older cars are quite reliable now.
01:38:55.000 You buy something and expect the engine to blow up.
01:38:57.000 It won't.
01:38:58.000 Well, how many of those 1988 Toyota Land Cruisers are still on the road with hundreds of thousands of miles?
01:39:05.000 Well, they did a brilliant film about that, and they're trying to kill a Land Cruiser, and they just couldn't.
01:39:10.000 Ended up dropping off a building, and it drove away.
01:39:13.000 It's the cockroach of the car world.
01:39:15.000 They're incredible.
01:39:16.000 I have a 200-series Land Cruiser V8 diesel, 157,000 miles on it.
01:39:21.000 I have an 80 series.
01:39:23.000 It's just...
01:39:23.000 They are...
01:39:24.000 They're brilliant vehicles.
01:39:25.000 And actually, I lobbed a bomb on Instagram the other day by saying, I drive around in my Land Cruiser feeling sorry for Range Rover drivers.
01:39:32.000 And I just got a whole lot of...
01:39:33.000 I didn't read it.
01:39:35.000 But I do think that...
01:39:37.000 I have some sympathy for people that make television because, you know, they say they don't work with children and animals, but working with cars can be difficult.
01:39:46.000 And one side of Top Gear that I found unpalatable, not just the sort of silly comedy bit, which I didn't like, was quite often you'd be given a script.
01:39:55.000 I'd be given a script and my review was in it.
01:39:57.000 And I'd be like, well, I haven't driven it yet.
01:40:00.000 So this is the part where you say it's great.
01:40:03.000 But what if I think it's shit?
01:40:04.000 Right.
01:40:05.000 But I can understand why the producer and the director is thinking, well, we've got to get all this packaged together.
01:40:10.000 That's our hour there.
01:40:11.000 That's our hour there.
01:40:11.000 But we haven't stopped to actually evaluate this thing we're supposed to be evaluating.
01:40:16.000 And I have some sympathy with people that make television because actually that bit is just – they don't care about that.
01:40:22.000 But for me, that's all that matters.
01:40:24.000 I want to give an honest opinion of the car.
01:40:27.000 Well, that's where you shine and that's why you should only be doing things on your own.
01:40:32.000 I think I will after this.
01:40:34.000 Fuck that wellness show, too.
01:40:37.000 Listen, I have to take a leak.
01:40:38.000 Let's come back.
01:40:39.000 We'll take a little quick break.
01:40:41.000 Dogs in cars is a good subject.
01:40:43.000 Yeah.
01:40:44.000 I love having my dog in the car.
01:40:46.000 My dog loves going in the car.
01:40:47.000 He knows we're going to go do something fun.
01:40:49.000 The dog, so is it sensible to suggest that the dog is the ultimate car companion?
01:40:54.000 Sure, because they're never upset.
01:40:56.000 Yeah.
01:40:56.000 Yeah, they're like, yay, we're in the car.
01:40:59.000 It must mean we're going somewhere.
01:41:00.000 I love, so I've got a GT3 Touring 991. You bring the dog in that?
01:41:05.000 What kind of dog?
01:41:06.000 He's an English Bull Terrier.
01:41:07.000 How big is he?
01:41:09.000 Quite a size.
01:41:10.000 But, you know, he's on with the shark face.
01:41:11.000 It just looks like he's going to kill you.
01:41:13.000 But all he'd do is lick you to death.
01:41:14.000 He's a gorgeous animal.
01:41:15.000 And from the very – from as a pup, all dogs have access to all cars.
01:41:20.000 It's really important for me.
01:41:21.000 Really?
01:41:22.000 If you have a car that's a million dollars, the dog's going in there.
01:41:25.000 Really?
01:41:26.000 For me, it's like a – it's close as it gets to religion for me.
01:41:30.000 I love it.
01:41:31.000 Because for me, it's a demonstration of – Of who I am.
01:41:34.000 I want my things I love the most to share the things I love the most, right?
01:41:37.000 So the dog goes in it.
01:41:38.000 And I love patination on cars.
01:41:40.000 So my cars are known for being not that clean, let's say.
01:41:44.000 They just live in them.
01:41:45.000 And you know the handle on a GT3 under the bucket seat where that lovely handle that you move so it falls backwards?
01:41:50.000 On mine, they're all chewed where he chewed them as a puppy.
01:41:53.000 And I leave them like that.
01:41:54.000 So when people get in, they go, fuck, what was that?
01:41:57.000 And I go, I thought you'd that.
01:41:59.000 But the only time I've come to grief is that I now am very suspicious of switchgear that's laid on the horizontal.
01:42:07.000 Because I was on a slip road in an M3 of mine.
01:42:12.000 Last year.
01:42:13.000 No, sorry.
01:42:13.000 No, it'd be the GT3. And I came off a slip road and I accelerated.
01:42:17.000 It was wet.
01:42:18.000 And I thought I'd lean on the systems, you know, when you just get that...
01:42:21.000 You lean on the traction or the ABS. And the car went fully sideways.
01:42:27.000 On a slip road in the middle of the day, and it looked outrageous.
01:42:30.000 I mean, that's what I'm quite good at.
01:42:31.000 So I went, well, there you go.
01:42:32.000 That's sideways.
01:42:34.000 Wound it off again.
01:42:34.000 The dog had put his paw on the ESP button.
01:42:38.000 Oh, no.
01:42:39.000 He had turned all the systems off without me knowing.
01:42:42.000 Oh, no.
01:42:43.000 So now I'm aware of that.
01:42:45.000 He's not allowed to do that.
01:42:46.000 Yeah, they shouldn't be right there.
01:42:47.000 But I suddenly thought, that's...
01:42:49.000 There he is.
01:42:50.000 Oh, what a cutie.
01:42:51.000 That's in the back of the M5, the V10 M5. That's Pip Dog.
01:42:54.000 Oh, that's nice.
01:42:55.000 He's an absolute legend, he is.
01:42:59.000 But he's a great dog companion.
01:43:01.000 No dog sickness.
01:43:03.000 I just love going crazy with him.
01:43:04.000 As long as they're accustomed to it, that's the thing.
01:43:07.000 When I have had dogs in the past that I didn't take in cars often, then you take them in a car, they're kind of freaking out.
01:43:13.000 Why are we moving?
01:43:13.000 They start throwing up.
01:43:14.000 But it's awful.
01:43:15.000 I don't want to see a dog like that.
01:43:16.000 No one wants to see an animal stressed.
01:43:17.000 Right.
01:43:18.000 And I have rejected cars because my dogs didn't like them.
01:43:22.000 I borrowed one and I bought a Golf R Estate.
01:43:29.000 I'm not sure you got them over here, but they did a combi sort of station wagon.
01:43:33.000 There's a theme here, I love station wagons.
01:43:35.000 Why do you like station wagons?
01:43:37.000 I think long roofs and curtailed arses look better.
01:43:41.000 Really?
01:43:42.000 Yeah.
01:43:42.000 The three box thing doesn't do it as much for me.
01:43:44.000 I like long down.
01:43:46.000 I don't know why.
01:43:46.000 Oh, I think they look gross.
01:43:47.000 Yeah.
01:43:48.000 I love them.
01:43:48.000 I see them.
01:43:49.000 I'm like, what did you do to that fucking thing?
01:43:52.000 This is the new one.
01:43:53.000 That's actually good looking.
01:43:54.000 I bought the old one.
01:43:55.000 So you type in, click in 2015 Goldfire Estate there.
01:43:59.000 And I... Any one of those, yeah, that'll do.
01:44:04.000 So I went and bought one of these, so that'll be good.
01:44:07.000 And that's not, it's not too showy, and it'll do the job.
01:44:10.000 And at that point, I had my old dog, Poz, a Weimarana, and I put him in the back, and he just got out again.
01:44:17.000 I was like, he hasn't done that before.
01:44:19.000 I put him in the back again, and it was quite evident he did not like the car.
01:44:22.000 I don't know why.
01:44:24.000 So you didn't like the car because you didn't like the car?
01:44:26.000 So I took the car back, and the guy who saw it said, what's the problem?
01:44:29.000 I said, Dom doesn't like it.
01:44:30.000 And he went...
01:44:32.000 What?
01:44:32.000 The dog?
01:44:33.000 What do you mean?
01:44:33.000 I said, well, the dog doesn't like it.
01:44:34.000 I can't live with it because the dog lives with me.
01:44:36.000 So it goes.
01:44:38.000 Absolutely.
01:44:39.000 Yeah, no, the dog's opinion matters.
01:44:40.000 What could it possibly have been?
01:44:43.000 Who knows?
01:44:44.000 Dogs are, as we know, the most incredible things.
01:44:48.000 We don't deserve them.
01:44:50.000 They are wonderful, but they see and they perceive things differently to us.
01:44:55.000 He knew.
01:44:56.000 It could be that he didn't like the cologne that the German guy that assembled the boot interior with.
01:45:03.000 You know, dogs operate on a level of perception we can't even understand.
01:45:07.000 Right.
01:45:08.000 So, yeah, your fascination with bears, you know, could a man...
01:45:13.000 Be beaten up by...
01:45:14.000 Could a man defeat a bear?
01:45:15.000 I always love that.
01:45:16.000 It's like, well, what are you thinking of?
01:45:17.000 I love...
01:45:18.000 I often like walking around trying to think what my dog's seeing of a situation.
01:45:23.000 What's he smelling?
01:45:24.000 Oh, they must be smelling just so many different things.
01:45:27.000 I know.
01:45:27.000 They apparently can...
01:45:28.000 If you have a hamburger that has, like, cheese, pickles, onions, ketchup, they can smell all the individual items in the hamburger.
01:45:37.000 They smell everything.
01:45:39.000 They have, like, a reference of...
01:45:41.000 A menu.
01:45:43.000 Yeah, it's just very different than ours.
01:45:44.000 So do they have, like, terminator vision?
01:45:46.000 Is there red code going across and they're like...
01:45:48.000 Well, they have no language, too, right?
01:45:51.000 So it's all on instincts, which is fascinating because, you know, nobody taught my dog to pee on things.
01:45:57.000 No.
01:45:58.000 He just knows that you step...
01:45:59.000 What's this?
01:46:00.000 Pee's on it, you know?
01:46:02.000 When I, like, take him on trails and he finds out where all the other dogs have peed, like, oh, I gotta pee there, too.
01:46:07.000 But my...
01:46:08.000 There's an emotional sensitivity to these animals as well.
01:46:11.000 That thing there you've just seen a picture of.
01:46:12.000 I mean, yeah, it was bred to fight.
01:46:14.000 Bulls and bears.
01:46:15.000 That was what it was bred to do.
01:46:17.000 But if, let's just say, at certain times in the month, if my girlfriend is feeling down, my dog will go and cuddle her and sit with her all night and provide heat to the part of her body that's in pain.
01:46:29.000 He will do that consistently.
01:46:32.000 Every single time.
01:46:33.000 He knows.
01:46:34.000 He just knows.
01:46:35.000 He knows she's uncomfortable.
01:46:36.000 They're empaths.
01:46:38.000 Especially when they really love you, there's something about them.
01:46:42.000 My dog understands language.
01:46:43.000 He doesn't know just, like, sit, give me your paw, lie down, stay.
01:46:49.000 But tone.
01:46:49.000 I bet you he knows tone.
01:46:50.000 Yeah.
01:46:51.000 He knows things.
01:46:52.000 Like, we could be going towards the house.
01:46:54.000 I go, nah, let's go around the back.
01:46:56.000 And he's like, okay, we're going around the back.
01:46:58.000 Like, he knows what I'm saying.
01:47:00.000 It's, like, real subtle.
01:47:02.000 Real simple.
01:47:03.000 I wonder if we over-project on them.
01:47:04.000 Because when we were discussing earlier about some of the...
01:47:07.000 This sense of being just so disappointed about...
01:47:10.000 Our fellow homo sapiens.
01:47:12.000 I over-project onto my dog.
01:47:14.000 The more I get disappointed by human beings, the more I revel in dogs.
01:47:18.000 Well, they're like human beings, though, in that it depends on the life of the dog.
01:47:22.000 Like, people get killed by wild dogs.
01:47:25.000 Yeah.
01:47:25.000 Like, in Georgia, some couple recently was attacked and somebody was killed by wild dogs.
01:47:30.000 Because the dogs are fending for themselves.
01:47:32.000 They live horrible lives.
01:47:33.000 Now, people that live horrible lives are shit people, right?
01:47:36.000 They're dangerous shit people.
01:47:38.000 Whereas a dog like Marshall that said nothing but love, and he's a golden retriever, he's bred that way, he's just a genuine joy.
01:47:45.000 Everyone he meets, like, you're my new friend!
01:47:48.000 Everybody he just assumes.
01:47:50.000 But you've met dogs that see people, they're sketchy, they're scared of men, maybe they were beaten.
01:47:59.000 Exactly, exactly.
01:48:00.000 Dogs are just like us.
01:48:02.000 They're just like us.
01:48:03.000 You get a dog like Carl, Carl thinks everybody loves him, and everybody wants to play, and that's what he does.
01:48:09.000 He just runs up to you and tries to play, because that's his whole life.
01:48:12.000 That's all he's ever experienced, is being taken care of.
01:48:14.000 I want some bear chat.
01:48:15.000 So I'm slightly fascinated by...
01:48:19.000 These really large bears, big Grizzlies.
01:48:22.000 And I do find myself sometimes at four in the morning when I can't sleep, Googling just the size of them, their potential power, the potential statistics of what they can and can't do.
01:48:33.000 Are they as awe-inspiring as I should think they are?
01:48:36.000 Oh yeah, and beyond.
01:48:38.000 There's a great story that you can find that's on YouTube.
01:48:42.000 There's a clip of my friend Steve Rinella and he was on a Fognac Island and they were elk hunting and they had shot an elk and And a Fognac Island is an incredibly difficult place to traverse.
01:48:57.000 The bush is dense and thick and the bears are enormous.
01:49:02.000 A Fognac is connected to Kodiak.
01:49:06.000 By a small land strip, I believe.
01:49:08.000 It's certainly, like, right next to Kodiak.
01:49:11.000 I might be wrong about the—I think it maybe used to be—I'm not sure.
01:49:14.000 But the point is, they are coastal brown bears.
01:49:17.000 And coastal brown bears are the same thing as a grizzly bear, but their diet is very different.
01:49:22.000 So their diet is so rich in protein from salmon.
01:49:25.000 They're enormous.
01:49:27.000 They could be 1,800 pounds.
01:49:30.000 They could be 11 feet tall.
01:49:32.000 They're fucking huge.
01:49:35.000 They're preposterously big.
01:49:36.000 And you can't imagine how big they are unless you really encounter them.
01:49:40.000 So my friend Steve...
01:49:42.000 He was with a group of friends, they had shot this elk, and he was filming it for a television show called Meat Eater.
01:49:47.000 They shot this elk, and they put most of it up in the tree, and they carry some of it back to camp, and camp is six hours of trekking through the train.
01:49:58.000 So then they come back the next day, they trek six hours, they find the spot, they sit down, and they start eating lunch.
01:50:07.000 They don't realize that a bear has claimed that meat.
01:50:11.000 And so the bear charged through the camp and one of the guys winds up on top of the bear.
01:50:21.000 The bear barrels through the people and this guy is literally riding the back of the bear for about 30 yards before he falls off of it.
01:50:31.000 One of my friends, my friend Giannis, it is gnashing its teeth about 18 inches from his face as it runs by.
01:50:39.000 Now, imagine a head this big.
01:50:41.000 I mean, the head is like this, isn't it?
01:50:43.000 Like this.
01:50:44.000 Enorm.
01:50:45.000 I mean, so big.
01:50:46.000 Just impossibly big.
01:50:48.000 And it's gnashing its teeth 18 inches away from his head as it runs by.
01:50:53.000 He hits it with a trekking pole.
01:50:55.000 Like, whacks it with a trekking pole.
01:50:57.000 The way Steve described it, he said...
01:51:00.000 The most reptilian part of your brain is ignited, where you no longer have like, what should I do?
01:51:09.000 There's no, there's no thinking in terms, there's no language, chaos, full chaos, full chaos, terrifying chaos.
01:51:18.000 No one had their gun in front of them.
01:51:20.000 No one, no one knew what to do.
01:51:21.000 They were all, like pistols were in the packs, rifles were sitting down over there.
01:51:25.000 No one was prepared.
01:51:27.000 No one thought the bear was there.
01:51:28.000 They didn't understand that it was there.
01:51:32.000 Yeah.
01:51:33.000 I think as a Northern European, we're always fascinated by the shit we haven't got.
01:51:41.000 Right.
01:51:41.000 And grizzly bears are up there with Chevy Suburbans, most muscle cars.
01:51:49.000 Honestly, the idea of the other, the foreign, is really fascinating for any person that doesn't have that.
01:51:54.000 Sure.
01:51:55.000 And the same with Australia.
01:51:56.000 You go to Australia, it's a very different thing.
01:51:58.000 They have little shit that will kill you.
01:52:00.000 Right, spiders.
01:52:01.000 You go there, and someone will casually go, yeah, mate, that bites you, you're fucked.
01:52:06.000 You're like, what do you mean?
01:52:07.000 It's a spider.
01:52:09.000 No, mate.
01:52:10.000 Jesus.
01:52:11.000 It's not like a big furry thing.
01:52:12.000 Right.
01:52:13.000 But in South America, it's big and furry.
01:52:15.000 Its whole presentation is, I'll kill you.
01:52:19.000 Right.
01:52:19.000 These ones are not quite like that.
01:52:20.000 Right.
01:52:21.000 So I do have this fascination with this stuff.
01:52:23.000 And again, that's why YouTube's great.
01:52:25.000 Because as a kid growing up, if you wanted to find out about this stuff, you couldn't really.
01:52:29.000 You had to go and get a book or...
01:52:31.000 There was no VHS. If you went to Blockbuster, you couldn't buy...
01:52:35.000 Documentary on Grizzly Bears, could you?
01:52:37.000 Right.
01:52:37.000 You wouldn't get it.
01:52:38.000 Right.
01:52:38.000 Now it's all over there.
01:52:39.000 But even a documentary is not going to do it.
01:52:42.000 You have to experience them.
01:52:45.000 You have to actually be around one and see it.
01:52:47.000 So you have been up close with these things?
01:52:49.000 I've only seen one grizzly bear in the wild and it wasn't big.
01:52:53.000 It was about six feet, but it looked at me so much different than any other animal that I've ever seen.
01:52:57.000 It looks right through you, like, am I gonna eat you?
01:53:00.000 Yeah, so you were a food source.
01:53:02.000 Yeah, are you a food source?
01:53:03.000 Am I gonna eat you?
01:53:04.000 What are you?
01:53:05.000 One of the best things I've done Top Gear was with Matt LeBlanc, who, as you can tell, I'm very fond of.
01:53:15.000 He's great fun, but he had this idea around Bigfoot.
01:53:21.000 So he's a believer.
01:53:22.000 He's a believer.
01:53:22.000 In his own way.
01:53:23.000 He's not a believer, but he presents a really strong argument.
01:53:27.000 I like people that, as you can tell, I like to apply tests to things.
01:53:32.000 He's not a believer, but he likes to apply tests.
01:53:35.000 He said, stand in the Washington State Forest and tell me that we know everything that's in there.
01:53:40.000 And if you come from a little island off Europe, the size of your forests are awe-inspiring.
01:53:46.000 And the idea there's so much stuff that we might not know about does interest me.
01:53:50.000 There probably at one point in time was something.
01:53:53.000 Yeah.
01:53:53.000 That's what it really is.
01:53:55.000 And there's an actual animal called Gigantopithecus that existed alongside human beings that was an 8 to 10 foot tall bipedal ape that lived in Asia and could have come across the Bering Land Bridge.
01:54:07.000 Yeah.
01:54:07.000 It is possible.
01:54:08.000 It is possible.
01:54:09.000 And there's also Native Americans have some enormous number of names for these creatures.
01:54:15.000 Different tribes.
01:54:16.000 So they don't have fake animals.
01:54:19.000 They don't have a bunch of dragons and stuff that doesn't exist.
01:54:21.000 It's not a mythical creature.
01:54:22.000 Right.
01:54:23.000 And I don't want to pitch Matt into something, you know, he's not some crazy believer.
01:54:27.000 And actually the premise of the whole film was fun.
01:54:30.000 He was there going, I think there's something here, let's go have a look for it.
01:54:34.000 And I was just acutely aware as we were in, we shot it in Northern California, so in North San Francisco.
01:54:41.000 The forest at night is a sketchy place.
01:54:46.000 It really reminds you of just how insignificant we are and how vulnerable we are without our man-made objects to defend ourselves.
01:54:54.000 Sure.
01:54:55.000 In the context of that, a bear, for me, was terrifying, actually.
01:54:59.000 I just thought they were creatures I'd seen on nature programs.
01:55:02.000 The idea that there was something out there that viewed me as food, that if you live in England, we don't have that.
01:55:08.000 We simply don't.
01:55:09.000 We don't have mountain lions.
01:55:10.000 I'm not going to get eaten by a badger.
01:55:12.000 I think the largest carnivore in the UK is probably a fox or a badger.
01:55:15.000 We don't have these things that you have.
01:55:17.000 All right.
01:55:18.000 It's difficult for you to understand.
01:55:19.000 There's nothing that views me as a food source.
01:55:21.000 California killed all the bears, all the grizzlies.
01:55:24.000 Did it?
01:55:24.000 Well, the California state flag is a grizzly bear.
01:55:27.000 Yeah.
01:55:28.000 And their bears were similar, I believe, in size to coastal brown bears, the grizzlies, the brown bears that used to live there.
01:55:37.000 And there's a place in California called Levesque, there's a town called Levesque that was named after, I believe his name was Stephen Levesque.
01:55:44.000 He was the last man to get killed by a brown bear in California before they eradicated them.
01:55:50.000 So this is in the 1800s, I guess?
01:55:52.000 So they just started killing them all.
01:55:54.000 They just killed them.
01:55:54.000 Fuck these things.
01:55:55.000 They're killing everybody.
01:55:56.000 Yeah.
01:55:56.000 Let's just kill them.
01:55:57.000 You can sort of see why.
01:55:58.000 Oh, yeah.
01:55:59.000 But a polar bear is even more madness again, isn't it?
01:56:02.000 Oh, yeah.
01:56:03.000 Have you ever seen that BBC show where they put the guy in the glass cube?
01:56:05.000 Oh, my God.
01:56:08.000 I mean, what was going on there?
01:56:11.000 That is so terrifying!
01:56:13.000 The thing is just smelling meat inside that cube and trying to get through it to get to him.
01:56:18.000 It's biting it, and you see its massive jaws, and they don't eat anything but meat.
01:56:23.000 Yeah.
01:56:24.000 So they're the most dangerous of all polar bears.
01:56:27.000 And ironically, they're the ones that we make seem to be the cutest.
01:56:31.000 This.
01:56:32.000 Fuck that thing!
01:56:33.000 How do you know that's gonna work, by the way?
01:56:35.000 Did you try that out on a bear?
01:56:36.000 It looks like a shit X-Wing fighter, doesn't it, from the inside?
01:56:39.000 And this bear just gets to it, it's like, oh, there's meat in there.
01:56:42.000 How do I get to that meat?
01:56:44.000 I just...
01:56:45.000 And we make those things out to be our friends.
01:56:48.000 You know, that's the, you know, what would you do for a Klondike bar?
01:56:52.000 You know, they sell Coca-Cola, they sell Klondike bars, and this bear is just a fucking super predator.
01:57:01.000 Baloo.
01:57:02.000 Baloo was a bear.
01:57:03.000 What's Baloo?
01:57:05.000 Baloo.
01:57:06.000 Jungle Book.
01:57:07.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:57:08.000 It's amazing, isn't it, that we anthropomorphize bears more than just about any other creature.
01:57:13.000 Yogi.
01:57:14.000 Paddington bear.
01:57:15.000 Sure.
01:57:15.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:57:16.000 Friendly, cuddly.
01:57:17.000 I think because they do look quite appealing.
01:57:21.000 And they are dog-like, aren't they?
01:57:23.000 They're slightly dog-like.
01:57:24.000 Snout.
01:57:25.000 Sure.
01:57:25.000 Shape of head.
01:57:26.000 Well, we put hats on them and shit.
01:57:28.000 Only you could prevent forest fires.
01:57:32.000 And they want to eat you.
01:57:33.000 Yeah, they want to eat you.
01:57:34.000 They want to eat anything that's slow.
01:57:36.000 I mean, that's what they're there for.
01:57:37.000 They're nature's cleanup crew.
01:57:38.000 A friend of mine walked to the North Pole for some reason.
01:57:40.000 I don't know why.
01:57:43.000 And he had a lot of training before.
01:57:45.000 And this is a long time ago.
01:57:46.000 But the polar bear training that he talked about was quite...
01:57:57.000 Right.
01:57:58.000 Right.
01:58:00.000 Right.
01:58:09.000 That had a solid bolt, just a solid bolt in it.
01:58:12.000 And if you could get that one thing off, you could stop it.
01:58:15.000 But there's no gauge of shotgun that was going to stop one of these things.
01:58:18.000 It was coming at you.
01:58:20.000 So they carried this thing.
01:58:21.000 They carried this thing that had a solid bolt in it.
01:58:23.000 That's all he had.
01:58:24.000 I don't know much about guns, but that's what they said they were given.
01:58:28.000 There's some pistols that you can effectively unload into a bear and stop them.
01:58:34.000 A.50 cal would stop it, would it?
01:58:35.000 Yeah, well sure, a.50 cal.
01:58:37.000 I don't even have a.50 cal pistol, but they have 40 magnums, 44 magnums.
01:58:42.000 Well that would stop a bear.
01:58:43.000 You'd have to shoot it multiple times.
01:58:46.000 Yeah, not one.
01:58:49.000 If you have a.38 or a 9mm, good luck.
01:58:54.000 Good luck.
01:58:54.000 It'll bounce right off its head.
01:58:56.000 Their heads are so thick.
01:58:58.000 You could literally shoot it in the forehead and it'll probably bounce off its forehead.
01:59:04.000 I mean, they bite each other.
01:59:05.000 You've seen them go to war with each other when they bite each other.
01:59:08.000 They have insane amounts of power and bite force and they're just clamping down on each other's face and they'll do it for half an hour and walk away like it was nothing.
01:59:17.000 Okay, that versus a big gorilla.
01:59:19.000 That's a good question.
01:59:21.000 We've had that question many times.
01:59:22.000 What is it?
01:59:23.000 I think the gorilla is at a severe disadvantage because it doesn't really kill anything.
01:59:28.000 Yeah.
01:59:29.000 So the gorilla just gnashes its teeth at other gorillas and makes like he's a badass and they have incredible power, but they don't even eat meat.
01:59:36.000 Whereas the bear, all it does is run around killing things.
01:59:40.000 It's all it does.
01:59:41.000 Kills things and eats dead things.
01:59:43.000 And that's what it wants to do.
01:59:45.000 I got my money on the bear.
01:59:47.000 I love it.
01:59:48.000 I love it.
01:59:48.000 What I know about is cars, and I'm here asking questions about bears.
01:59:52.000 Well, they're fascinating.
01:59:53.000 It's a fascinating part of our world.
01:59:55.000 And anthropomorphizing is a really fascinating aspect of it.
01:59:59.000 And I think in America it happened with Teddy Roosevelt, with the teddy bear.
02:00:03.000 I think that's the beginning of the end.
02:00:05.000 And then Disney movies were a huge problem.
02:00:07.000 Disney movies are a huge problem.
02:00:09.000 Because all the bears are your friend.
02:00:10.000 They all talk to everybody and say, why would you kill the bear?
02:00:13.000 That is a giant forest dog.
02:00:16.000 That's an evil animal that it doesn't give a fuck about you or your kids.
02:00:20.000 It'll pull you out of your tent.
02:00:22.000 It'll eat you.
02:00:23.000 100%.
02:00:24.000 And they're wonderful, and they're beautiful, and we should definitely keep a healthy population of them.
02:00:28.000 I'm not saying we should eradicate them, but know what they are, and don't be influenced by these goddamn cartoons, cartoons and movies, which have fucked people's heads up.
02:00:38.000 Yeah.
02:00:40.000 As a parent, you realize it as well.
02:00:42.000 Particularly in the UK, we don't have dangerous species of animals like that, but we do...
02:00:54.000 Sure.
02:00:56.000 Yeah.
02:01:04.000 The fox is a clever creature.
02:01:06.000 And it worked out that it was much easier to come into town and raid bins than it was to stay out there trying to find rabbits in the countryside.
02:01:12.000 And these nighttime foxes, they were very clever.
02:01:16.000 No one really knew they were there.
02:01:17.000 The BBC made a fantastic documentary, I think, against Attenborough in the early 80s about urban foxes.
02:01:23.000 And they've spread throughout the UK. And the fox is this, you know, in most cartoons, it's a lovely, cuddly thing with a bushy tail.
02:01:30.000 It's a beautiful colour.
02:01:32.000 But they're predators.
02:01:35.000 They're a real problem for farmers and they eat a lot of poultry.
02:01:39.000 I'm not even going into fox hunting.
02:01:40.000 That's not my world.
02:01:43.000 But there's been a few stories recently of foxes going into people's houses and, you know, attacking babies and stuff like that.
02:01:51.000 And then you see on Instagram people feeding the foxes in their back gardens and you think, that's not a domesticated animal.
02:01:57.000 Yeah, you can't do that.
02:01:59.000 You've got to decide one or the other.
02:02:02.000 Also, if you feed them, then they become accustomed to getting food from that particular area and then you kind of fuck them up because then they lose their ability to hunt.
02:02:11.000 Yeah.
02:02:11.000 If you do it too often, if you provide them with food every day, you're going to fuck them up.
02:02:16.000 I've just had my holiday down in Newquay on the north coast of Cornwall, which is just one of the most beautiful places on the planet.
02:02:22.000 And when you buy fish and chips from the fish and chips outlets, they all have a seagull warning now on the shop front saying, when you buy your fish and chips, protect it.
02:02:32.000 Because all the seagulls just dive bomb people.
02:02:35.000 Wow.
02:02:35.000 It's like that scene in that Jurassic Park film where the pterodactyls are coming down.
02:02:40.000 You ever seen a seagull eat a rat?
02:02:42.000 Yeah, hole.
02:02:43.000 Hole.
02:02:44.000 Just throw it down.
02:02:47.000 They'll do it to pigeons.
02:02:48.000 They'll do it to everything they can catch.
02:02:50.000 There's a wonderful Instagram clip.
02:02:52.000 I'm admitting too much about my search history here.
02:02:54.000 I think it's a cormorant just being given like a black oily thing.
02:02:58.000 Just being given fish.
02:03:00.000 And it eats like five.
02:03:02.000 Yeah, I've seen that.
02:03:02.000 You think the volume of fish you've eaten there is greater than the mass of your body.
02:03:07.000 There's no way.
02:03:08.000 I didn't think you could eat that.
02:03:10.000 No, there's so many videos of, like, different birds throwing down a whole largemouth bass, and it's like, how is it even getting in your mouth?
02:03:18.000 They have these skinny little necks, and they swell up, and they have the fins popping out, the tails popping out of their mouth.
02:03:27.000 Yeah, they're pretty extraordinary creatures, and they're essentially dinosaurs.
02:03:30.000 And actually, to come back to the content discussion, YouTube, whatever it is, I do love the fact it's all out there.
02:03:37.000 I love the fact it's being recorded.
02:03:39.000 I had never seen this stuff.
02:03:41.000 I've got a particular phobia, and it is a phobia.
02:03:43.000 I hate crabs, and I'm not talking about the STD style.
02:03:47.000 I'm talking about crustacea.
02:03:49.000 Why?
02:03:50.000 Why?
02:03:52.000 I think they're horrid to look at.
02:03:55.000 I won't eat them.
02:03:56.000 I'll eat all other seafood, but I won't eat a crab.
02:03:59.000 You'll eat lobster?
02:04:00.000 Yep.
02:04:00.000 How weird is that?
02:04:02.000 Insight into the addled brain.
02:04:04.000 I hate the crab.
02:04:05.000 I also think it's a totally unnecessary looking creature.
02:04:10.000 They're so delicious though.
02:04:11.000 You love them.
02:04:12.000 Everyone I know loves them.
02:04:12.000 My children adore them.
02:04:14.000 But if there's a big brown crab on a plate, I can't even sit in a room with it.
02:04:17.000 Fuck off.
02:04:19.000 Just an awful thing.
02:04:21.000 Also, and this is a good example, right?
02:04:23.000 In the pantheon of hateful aesthetics, right?
02:04:27.000 Right.
02:04:28.000 You have an exoskeleton.
02:04:30.000 So you're inside out.
02:04:33.000 This thing or someone or something has decided that's going to be inside out.
02:04:36.000 So it has a shell to protect its soft, cuddly, and as you described, delicious innards.
02:04:42.000 Why would you make that exoskeleton hairy?
02:04:45.000 That's unnecessary.
02:04:46.000 It's also disgusting.
02:04:47.000 This thing has hairs growing out of a shell.
02:04:50.000 That's the worst aesthetic of anything.
02:04:52.000 Well, very lucky they're small.
02:04:54.000 It's also interesting that people, they catch them and snap their claws off and throw them back in the water because their claws will regenerate.
02:05:00.000 And they'll grow another claw.
02:05:02.000 That's from a film.
02:05:02.000 That's not real.
02:05:03.000 No, it's real.
02:05:04.000 No, it shouldn't be allowed.
02:05:05.000 In other words, it should be fiction.
02:05:07.000 Right.
02:05:08.000 That's from a horror movie.
02:05:09.000 I know what you're saying.
02:05:10.000 Type in coconut crab.
02:05:11.000 Oh yeah, those are crazy.
02:05:13.000 They're huge.
02:05:14.000 Like anything that you're scared of, you're fascinated by it.
02:05:16.000 Someone did some research into the claw, bite force of these things.
02:05:22.000 And they were absolutely shocked at the torque and power they could generate.
02:05:26.000 Look at that guy holding one.
02:05:27.000 You get a perspective.
02:05:29.000 What is that?
02:05:30.000 The size of that thing.
02:05:31.000 What is that?
02:05:32.000 Come on, that's unnecessary, isn't it?
02:05:33.000 Well, um...
02:05:35.000 So type in claw strength of coconut crab and you will be absolutely horrified at what they found.
02:05:44.000 Wow.
02:05:45.000 Look at the size of that thing.
02:05:46.000 They are freakish.
02:05:48.000 Where do they live?
02:05:49.000 They live on a couple of islands.
02:05:52.000 3,300 newtons.
02:05:59.000 That's so nuts.
02:06:01.000 That could take your hand off.
02:06:03.000 Oh, yeah.
02:06:04.000 Wow.
02:06:07.000 It's stronger than the bite of most land animals, including leopards, bears, and wild dogs.
02:06:15.000 And it looks like something from a horror movie.
02:06:17.000 Do you know there's some speculation that that's what the fate of Amelia Earhart was?
02:06:21.000 Yes.
02:06:22.000 So when I read that, I just...
02:06:23.000 That she crashed, got on this island, and the coconut crabs ate her.
02:06:30.000 That's insane.
02:06:31.000 I mean, luckily, I think they clamp slowly.
02:06:33.000 Yeah, but more than a leopard.
02:06:35.000 What the fuck, man?
02:06:37.000 So what is that thing biting through?
02:06:38.000 Is that metal?
02:06:39.000 Oh, they're just horrendous.
02:06:41.000 There's that lovely guy on Instagram who's a fisherman who does the experiments with the lobsters and he gets the lobster crushing claw and he puts stuff in the claw and works out what they can chop in half.
02:06:52.000 I find that thoroughly addictive.
02:06:54.000 But crustacea like that, that's my ultimate nightmare.
02:06:57.000 It's a hard life.
02:06:59.000 It's a hard life for them, you know?
02:07:01.000 Yeah.
02:07:02.000 And you can't make them pets.
02:07:03.000 No.
02:07:04.000 That's how they're wired.
02:07:06.000 But the stats of that, so stronger than a leopard bite.
02:07:09.000 That's so bizarre.
02:07:10.000 I would have never imagined that.
02:07:12.000 I would have never guessed.
02:07:13.000 No.
02:07:14.000 And I stay up at night worrying about this sometimes.
02:07:17.000 There's something called the Japanese with a giant spider crab.
02:07:20.000 So where I used to go on holiday as a kid was this lovely old sort of Victorian style hotel in Cornwall.
02:07:25.000 It was run a bit like Forty Towers.
02:07:27.000 In fact, it was like Forty Towers.
02:07:28.000 Had the guy that ran it that was the curious guy that made lots of jokes that people found a bit rude, but he was wonderful.
02:07:33.000 And they only had about three magazines in their very smelly lounge area where all the old people would sit.
02:07:38.000 And one of them was a National Geographic magazine from about 1975. But I'd always sit and read when my parents were doing other stuff.
02:07:46.000 And it had an article about Japanese giants, these giant spider crabs.
02:07:50.000 And there was just one picture of one in a tank with its legs like seven feet apart or something.
02:07:56.000 Let me see this thing.
02:07:57.000 It stayed with me.
02:07:59.000 It stayed with me.
02:08:01.000 For years.
02:08:01.000 What is it called?
02:08:02.000 I was reading about these crabs.
02:08:03.000 Sorry.
02:08:04.000 I got locked into the crabs.
02:08:05.000 Giant spider crab.
02:08:07.000 Okay, spider crab.
02:08:07.000 Japanese spider crabs.
02:08:09.000 That's where these are from, too.
02:08:10.000 Giant spider crab.
02:08:11.000 Oh, the coconut crabs are from Japan as well?
02:08:13.000 Giant spider crab.
02:08:15.000 Can't believe I'm sharing all this.
02:08:17.000 Crabs are a huge problem for me.
02:08:20.000 They really are.
02:08:21.000 My children know.
02:08:22.000 Look at this.
02:08:24.000 What's that?
02:08:25.000 Wow.
02:08:28.000 Are those things, do they taste good?
02:08:29.000 Look at that!
02:08:30.000 Are the coconut crabs delicious?
02:08:32.000 I don't think, I've never heard of anyone eating a coconut crab.
02:08:34.000 I wonder why.
02:08:37.000 Jesus Christ, that's insane.
02:08:40.000 That's so big.
02:08:42.000 I had no idea that there was a crab that's longer than a human being.
02:08:46.000 Absolutely disgraceful thing.
02:08:49.000 Can you eat a Japanese spider crab?
02:08:51.000 Oh, I think you do, yeah.
02:08:52.000 It looks like they got them on ice, so it looks like they're preparing a Japanese spider crab is no easy task.
02:08:58.000 Oh, you gotta find a big pot.
02:08:59.000 Yeah, right?
02:09:00.000 You gotta break it up, I guess.
02:09:02.000 Wow.
02:09:04.000 Now, what about, find out about the coconut crab.
02:09:07.000 Can you eat coconut crabs?
02:09:09.000 I might want to eat one.
02:09:12.000 I'm going to send you a picture if I get one.
02:09:15.000 I'll be glad to see that it's no longer moving.
02:09:19.000 I just cannot get my head...
02:09:21.000 Can you eat them?
02:09:22.000 I want...
02:09:23.000 Yes, it says above that.
02:09:25.000 Above that?
02:09:26.000 An aphrodisiac.
02:09:26.000 An aphrodisiac.
02:09:27.000 Oh, but look, it says...
02:09:28.000 Yes, coconut crabs are eaten as a delicacy on some islands and are considered an aphrodisiac in other places.
02:09:34.000 Some say they're tasty and don't need any extra seasoning or cooking and can be eaten after boiling for about 10 to 15 minutes.
02:09:41.000 However, the species is threatened by intensive hunting.
02:09:44.000 Aw, poor babies.
02:09:45.000 They ate Amelia Earhart.
02:09:47.000 Whose fucking side are you on?
02:09:49.000 When I was reading, they don't have shells.
02:09:51.000 That's why their claws are like their protection.
02:09:53.000 Oh.
02:09:54.000 And they mostly, on one island, only eat other crabs.
02:09:57.000 Oh, wow, they're cannibals?
02:09:58.000 Yeah.
02:09:59.000 Like they eat red crabs, I guess?
02:10:01.000 Oh, they eat other crabs.
02:10:02.000 Well, we mostly eat other animals, and we're animals.
02:10:05.000 Deary me.
02:10:06.000 Well, I've shared too much there.
02:10:07.000 So that's my ultimate fear.
02:10:09.000 Crabs.
02:10:09.000 I can remember several times we'd be asked on Top Gear when we were going away, you know, are you okay with everything?
02:10:15.000 And I'd be thinking, I'll do anything.
02:10:18.000 I'll eat my own feces.
02:10:19.000 But if there's crabs there, I've got problems.
02:10:21.000 And only once did we go somewhere where there was...
02:10:24.000 We were just in Cuba.
02:10:26.000 Filming the opening for this film.
02:10:28.000 And we were in Bay of Pigs.
02:10:31.000 So we were actually there.
02:10:33.000 We were right there with a Maserati and an old Camaro filming this intro to a film.
02:10:38.000 Totally random.
02:10:39.000 What is it like being in Cuba?
02:10:42.000 I'll give you that in a minute.
02:10:43.000 Okay.
02:10:44.000 And I was so punch drunk with just travel and filming and working so hard.
02:10:51.000 You'd almost just wake up and go, oh, it's another mad place.
02:10:54.000 I was in Kazakhstan today.
02:10:55.000 I was like, okay, we'll get on with it.
02:10:56.000 And looking back, I was in Kazakhstan for 10 days with Matt LeBlanc from Friends.
02:11:02.000 That's a mad thing to do.
02:11:03.000 That's pretty mad.
02:11:04.000 But at the time, it was just like work.
02:11:06.000 Anyhow, it's a Bay of Pigs.
02:11:07.000 And I looked at my phone.
02:11:08.000 I thought, this is...
02:11:09.000 This is the Bay of Pigs.
02:11:10.000 Fucking hell.
02:11:11.000 This is where it all went a bit wrong for America.
02:11:15.000 This is historically quite a significant place.
02:11:17.000 It could have been a real problem.
02:11:17.000 Yeah.
02:11:18.000 Anyhow.
02:11:19.000 And I'm looking around and there's lots going on.
02:11:22.000 And I look left.
02:11:22.000 I'm filming the opening piece of the camera, which was typically bad for me.
02:11:26.000 But the reason why it was really bad was I look left.
02:11:28.000 There was a crab down there shuffling around.
02:11:30.000 And I'm like, I need that.
02:11:32.000 Gone.
02:11:33.000 But I can't admit to people that that big is worrying me.
02:11:36.000 That is really worrying me.
02:11:37.000 I'm thinking, that's going to crawl up my leg.
02:11:40.000 Something totally irrational.
02:11:42.000 I think we all have a creature maybe, a bogeyman or a bogeywoman or whatever it is, that maybe we fear.
02:11:48.000 Do you have one or not?
02:11:49.000 No, but I think where that comes from, I have a feeling it's genetic memory.
02:11:53.000 I think that's where aphidiophobia comes from and arachnophobia, fear of snakes and spiders.
02:11:58.000 I think, because some people, we've experienced that on Fear Factor as well.
02:12:02.000 Some people have a real, it seems like a genetic irrational fear of certain things.
02:12:08.000 And I really feel like that is some memory from either an ancestor getting bit or seeing someone get bit and die.
02:12:17.000 I think there's something to that.
02:12:19.000 There's a reason why it exists in some people and not in others.
02:12:23.000 Because it can't be completely irrational, can it?
02:12:25.000 Right.
02:12:26.000 No, I think it's completely a genetic memory.
02:12:30.000 That's my number one guess.
02:12:32.000 Cuba was fascinating because I suppose as an American citizen you can't go there, can you?
02:12:36.000 Can you go there now?
02:12:37.000 I think you used to be able to go there.
02:12:39.000 I think during the Obama administration they made it so you can go there.
02:12:42.000 It's an amazing place because it's one of the few...
02:12:47.000 Which is kind of crazy.
02:12:48.000 Your government can tell you you can't go somewhere.
02:12:50.000 Like, fuck.
02:12:50.000 Yes.
02:12:51.000 Someone that's so close to you as well.
02:12:53.000 Exactly.
02:12:53.000 You can go there on a rowboat.
02:12:55.000 It's a museum, is what it is.
02:12:57.000 It's a fully functioning museum.
02:12:59.000 For automobiles.
02:13:01.000 For life in many ways.
02:13:03.000 You know, it's not something that's been allowed to develop.
02:13:07.000 Right.
02:13:27.000 Weird Soviet intervention and Americana from the 50s and, well, up to 50s.
02:13:33.000 So they've kept these American cars going that should have died.
02:13:37.000 They've also got a whole load of Soviet-era ladders that came in when the Russians wanted to help them out.
02:13:44.000 And also, that's where their power stations come from.
02:13:47.000 Their power station, they have a coal-fired power station on the north side of the island that, when it's operating, has a plume of smoke that goes as far as the eye can see.
02:13:56.000 It's an amazing thing.
02:13:58.000 I couldn't believe it.
02:13:59.000 It's sort of slightly hidden from all the tourists.
02:14:04.000 Yes, it's a country that hasn't been allowed to develop at the same speed as the rest of the world.
02:14:09.000 And it's, what, 100 miles from the coast of the US or something?
02:14:14.000 I think it's 90. Is it?
02:14:15.000 Yeah.
02:14:16.000 It's amazing.
02:14:17.000 It's well worth visiting if you can go just to see it.
02:14:21.000 It just shows you what happens when human beings act absurdly.
02:14:24.000 Do you feel safe over there?
02:14:27.000 Totally.
02:14:27.000 Totally safe.
02:14:30.000 In many ways, I loved it.
02:14:32.000 In many ways, I wouldn't want to go again.
02:14:34.000 It's one of those curious places where I thought, I've seen the right side of it.
02:14:38.000 If I scratch too deeply, am I going to see something I don't want to see?
02:14:42.000 Maybe that was it.
02:14:43.000 Well, you certainly will.
02:14:44.000 I mean, there's a reason why people are escaping there.
02:14:46.000 Yeah, of course.
02:14:47.000 They're trapped.
02:14:47.000 Yeah.
02:14:48.000 They're trapped in a communist dictatorship.
02:14:49.000 Yeah.
02:14:50.000 It's not good.
02:14:51.000 Yeah.
02:14:51.000 But as a tourist, you obviously presented something completely contorted, aren't you?
02:14:55.000 That's what happens when you're making a TV show.
02:14:58.000 It's also a communist dictatorship that's in a very unusual predicament because they're not allowed to trade, right?
02:15:05.000 So China is a communist dictatorship, but we buy everything from China.
02:15:09.000 They're arguably worse than Cuba, but we're not allowed to trade with Cuba because some shit that happened in the 60s.
02:15:15.000 But Cuba can sell stuff to other countries other than America.
02:15:18.000 So, you know, we're full of their cigars and their rum and...
02:15:21.000 But not America.
02:15:22.000 I think you can get them now in limited quantities, but it used to be if you got a hold of Cuban cigars, I would get them.
02:15:29.000 I'm going to tell you a thing I did that was illegal.
02:15:31.000 I used to get them from England, and I used to get Cuban cigars.
02:15:34.000 I had a friend who lived in England, and he would send me Cuban cigars, and then later he would send me the labels.
02:15:40.000 So he would send me the cigars with no labels, like in a Ziploc bag, send me a few cigars, and then he would send me the labels in an envelope a couple days later.
02:15:52.000 The pollution in Havana was the worst I've ever experienced of a city.
02:15:56.000 I think when the wind changed, that power station just bloomed straight over.
02:16:00.000 Well, there's a place, was it in Indiana, where there's three coal-fired power plants?
02:16:06.000 And if you go outside, you can run your finger over someone's windshield and you have black coal dust on your finger.
02:16:12.000 And all these people in that area have all sorts of weird fucking diseases because they're just breathing in particulates every day.
02:16:19.000 We went to one of the best things I did with Top Gear again, a repeat phrase, maybe only to reconsider my negativity, was the Kazakhstan thing with Matt.
02:16:29.000 So we went there, and Rory was there as well, and we ended up at Baikonur, which is the Cosmodrome.
02:16:35.000 Where the Russian space program is based.
02:16:40.000 And it's an incredible area.
02:16:41.000 I mean, it's just mind-bendingly brilliant.
02:16:44.000 The vastness of that part of the world, the Soviet Union, if we think that the United States of America is big, the Soviet Union was on a scale that you cannot comprehend.
02:16:54.000 Kazakhstan was just a small bolt-on to Russia, but in itself has, I think, the fourth longest border of any country with Russia.
02:17:01.000 It's enormous.
02:17:03.000 And this area called Baikonur, the way that the Russians worked was once they'd used the launch site, they'd just go somewhere else.
02:17:10.000 Because it was so big, they'd just abandon that one and move on to another one.
02:17:13.000 It's a bit like rabbit warrens, you know, just move on.
02:17:15.000 And they plotted all of it in a map.
02:17:17.000 Anyhow, we went there and we watched, well, when we got close, you were aware of the amount of heavy industry.
02:17:23.000 It was just, the place was, it was the first place I'd been to where I thought, I'm not sure I should be breathing this.
02:17:27.000 It just felt like you were breathing in stuff that was hurting you.
02:17:31.000 I'd never, I've been to, you know, Indian cities where there's heavy pollution, but that's just sort of diesel and petrol fumes.
02:17:37.000 There's something else here, you know, you're like going, what is that?
02:17:42.000 But they, it culminated with us watching a Soyuz rocket take off.
02:17:46.000 And they let us get much closer to film it than you would normally be allowed to be.
02:17:51.000 And I've never watched a rocket take off before.
02:17:54.000 I haven't been to Cape Canaveral or anywhere in the US. It was one of the most awe-inspiring things I've ever seen.
02:18:00.000 Sounds like such a cliché.
02:18:01.000 But watching a vehicle that has enough power to leave our atmosphere...
02:18:06.000 It's something I'd advise anyone to do if they have the chance.
02:18:11.000 There's a sort of ripping sound in the air that people who have seen it will understand.
02:18:16.000 It does feel like just the power of this thing is shredding the atmosphere around you.
02:18:21.000 And it hits you in the solar plexus.
02:18:23.000 You have no control over this sort of rattling in your chest.
02:18:27.000 I think we were less than a kilometre away from where it went off.
02:18:31.000 It was absolutely sensational to witness.
02:18:34.000 Wow.
02:18:34.000 Just power.
02:18:36.000 Raw power.
02:18:38.000 Wow.
02:18:38.000 And the idea that Mr. Musk has got something that's more powerful than Saturn V about to take off, that fascinates me.
02:18:45.000 All of that side of things.
02:18:47.000 We talk about power and engines.
02:18:49.000 Your rat has got a bit of grunt.
02:18:50.000 But these things, they just rattle you.
02:18:53.000 But the smell afterwards is interesting.
02:18:56.000 Oh, it's gotta be horrible.
02:18:58.000 Every time they launch, I mean, how many cars does that account for?
02:19:02.000 You think about the amount of pollution that's put out, the amount of carbon that's put out by the burning rockets.
02:19:09.000 I can't even begin to quantify it.
02:19:10.000 100,000 cars?
02:19:12.000 What are they burning as well?
02:19:14.000 What's in there?
02:19:15.000 What's in there?
02:19:16.000 Talking about ropey fuels, I was talking to some guys that used to race sports cars and Formula One back in the 80s when they were using some very funky fuels because there was lots of technology left over in the Second World War that the Germans had for jet engines that they had pioneered.
02:19:34.000 We're good to go.
02:19:46.000 And the drivers, after one lap, were gone.
02:19:48.000 They were just spent.
02:19:50.000 There was also great stories about the fact that they'd sometimes have a sort of area outside the Formula One garage.
02:19:55.000 It wasn't as developed as a sport then, but they still had sponsors and guests.
02:19:59.000 And one particular team had, you know, all the trees they put outside just died in an afternoon.
02:20:05.000 LAUGHTER Because this fuel was so obnoxious.
02:20:07.000 And I think actually a guy called Andy Wallace, who's a fantastic racing driver, who's now the chief test driver for Bugatti, tells some amazing stories about literally being hauled out of Group C race cars after qualifying because the fuel was just impossible, just poisoning them.
02:20:22.000 Wow!
02:20:23.000 But it gave them an extra 100 horsepower for that lap.
02:20:25.000 Well, how about leaded gasoline?
02:20:27.000 Leaded gasoline, there's been studies that show that in the places with higher amounts of leaded gasoline, you can see the lower IQ in the kids.
02:20:36.000 And they think that it has dropped people's IQ by a measurable amount.
02:20:41.000 Like, people that grew up around leaded gasoline, which is me, during that time, we are dumber because of leaded gasoline.
02:20:50.000 The pipes in our homes 150 years ago were made of Lead.
02:20:55.000 Lead pipes.
02:20:56.000 Well, my friend Shane Gillis is in a hilarious bit about George Washington.
02:21:01.000 And George Washington had lead dentures.
02:21:03.000 So he had this lead thing where these fake teeth were...
02:21:07.000 So he had like lead in his mouth.
02:21:10.000 So he's getting lead poisoning all day long.
02:21:12.000 I have somewhere in my house something I bought from the internet, which is...
02:21:18.000 Boots chemists.
02:21:19.000 So our chemists, your CVS, we have Boots, which is our standard chemist.
02:21:23.000 It's a logo of healthcare, of stuff that's good for you.
02:21:28.000 Boots used to sell cigarettes for coughs.
02:21:32.000 Duh!
02:21:35.000 I've got some.
02:21:35.000 I've got a tin somewhere.
02:21:36.000 It's brilliant.
02:21:37.000 And it shows you how you should smoke them to get rid of your cough.
02:21:41.000 Oh, boy.
02:21:42.000 So, I think...
02:21:43.000 That wasn't that long ago.
02:21:44.000 No, that's probably after the Second World War.
02:21:47.000 No, before the Second World War.
02:21:49.000 Crazy.
02:21:49.000 I would have thought so.
02:21:50.000 A hundred years ago, they thought cigarettes were good for coughs.
02:21:52.000 Of course they did.
02:21:53.000 But then someone...
02:21:54.000 I just Googled it.
02:21:55.000 Something like it to see if I'd find the ad.
02:21:59.000 And AI says that menthol cigarettes are flavored to help with coughs.
02:22:03.000 Oh, come on.
02:22:05.000 What?
02:22:05.000 It says the menthol can decrease the cough reflex.
02:22:08.000 Which can help with coughs.
02:22:10.000 I've never heard of that.
02:22:11.000 By reducing airway pain and irritation, menthol can reduce the pain and irritation caused by cigarette smoke.
02:22:16.000 Decreasing the cough reflex, menthol triggers cold, sensitive nerves in the skin, which can decrease the cough reflex.
02:22:23.000 Soothing a dry throat.
02:22:25.000 Menthol can soothe the dry throat feeling.
02:22:27.000 That's funny that AI is willing to say something that's very un-PC. You think the AI fucked up here?
02:22:32.000 Yeah.
02:22:32.000 Because I've never heard that.
02:22:33.000 Well, it's probably true.
02:22:34.000 It's terrible for you.
02:22:36.000 Yeah, so hover smoking can make you cough more.
02:22:38.000 Duh.
02:22:38.000 Interesting.
02:22:39.000 That's so weird.
02:22:41.000 Can't you take menthol without it being in the format of a cigarette?
02:22:44.000 I'm sure.
02:22:46.000 Yeah, it's a cough drop, I think.
02:22:48.000 But what we've learned about metallurgy Is fascinating.
02:22:53.000 And it does mean that that's why we have to apply that to what we currently witness in the motor car, in the automobile industry.
02:23:02.000 There's technology out there that will change something at some point.
02:23:05.000 We just don't know what it is yet.
02:23:07.000 It's going to happen because we're having to relearn so much of what we thought was facts in other areas of our lives.
02:23:13.000 And I think maybe that's what I get frustrated by.
02:23:15.000 You can't wait for that unprecedented change to come.
02:23:19.000 Necessarily, but you have to assume at some point, someone's going to make a battery that runs on wasp piss or fucking water or something, aren't they?
02:23:26.000 It's going to happen.
02:23:27.000 Scientists are clever.
02:23:28.000 They have big foreheads for a reason.
02:23:30.000 At the moment, the argument is where there's not enough cobalt or where to get the lithium from.
02:23:34.000 It's a slightly speechless argument because I think it won't always be like that.
02:23:38.000 Someone will invent something that means that we won't need the cobalt and the lithium.
02:23:42.000 Well, some guy invented a water-powered car a long time ago and he was murdered.
02:23:47.000 Do you know that story?
02:23:48.000 It's one of the great conspiracy theories.
02:23:50.000 He met with some people that wanted to talk to him about this design, and then he yelled, they poisoned me, and he ran outside and died.
02:24:01.000 Yeah, and then nobody ever heard about the water-powered car ever again after that.
02:24:06.000 So, what is all that?
02:24:07.000 I don't know.
02:24:08.000 What the fuck is all that shit?
02:24:09.000 So, the mysterious death of Stanley Meyer and his water-powered car.
02:24:14.000 It's a wonderful conspiracy theory.
02:24:16.000 I haven't looked into it enough to know how much of it is true.
02:24:19.000 It looks like a Tamiya model underneath.
02:24:20.000 Look at it.
02:24:21.000 It looks like the wild one.
02:24:24.000 So, this guy developed this water-powered car that, you know, had incredible mileage.
02:24:30.000 Interesting messaging on the side of the vehicle.
02:24:32.000 Yeah.
02:24:33.000 Jesus Christ, a lady?
02:24:36.000 No, it says it's Lord.
02:24:37.000 Oh, Jesus Christ is Lord.
02:24:39.000 Oh, okay.
02:24:41.000 This is cursive.
02:24:43.000 Did Stanley Meyer die because he knew how to turn water into fuel?
02:24:48.000 This is a British newspaper.
02:24:49.000 Is it?
02:24:50.000 The Express.
02:24:51.000 Mmm.
02:24:52.000 When was this?
02:24:52.000 Go back to 80?
02:24:54.000 I can't remember.
02:24:55.000 This thing is ridiculous on the screen.
02:24:57.000 What kind of shit website is this?
02:24:59.000 It's some really bad one.
02:25:00.000 Let's see if there's another article.
02:25:02.000 I'm sure there's other articles about that.
02:25:03.000 The Car That Ran on Water.
02:25:05.000 This is where it happened.
02:25:05.000 It happened outside in Columbus.
02:25:08.000 Oh, okay.
02:25:08.000 North City.
02:25:10.000 So, his bizarre death at age 57 ended work that, if proved valid, scroll up, could have ended reliance on fossil fuels.
02:25:18.000 People who knew him said his work drew worldwide attention, mysterious visitors from overseas, government spying, and lucrative buyout offers.
02:25:24.000 I know that.
02:25:25.000 He was offered money to sell.
02:25:27.000 I think the Y Files did an episode on this.
02:25:30.000 The Myers death was laced with all sorts of story and conspiracy, cloak and dagger stories.
02:25:34.000 Grove City Police Lieutenant Steve Robinette How did it run on water?
02:25:51.000 I don't know.
02:25:53.000 Stephen Meyers featured in numerous internet sites, a significant portion of the 1995 documentary, It Runs on Water, narrated by science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke, aired on BBC, focused on his water fuel cell invention.
02:26:06.000 It's a fuel cell, okay.
02:26:08.000 Hmm.
02:26:09.000 He was ignored, called a fraud, and died without his hometown even remembering him with so much as a plaque.
02:26:16.000 Hmm.
02:26:18.000 But I have to believe that A piece of technology will emerge in the next 50 years that will make us all wonder why we all got so freaked out, you know?
02:26:31.000 Yeah, right, especially over exhaust, right?
02:26:34.000 It says, A match is lighted.
02:26:46.000 The volatile gases explode and prove that water is separated into its components.
02:26:51.000 Meyer said his invention did so by using much less electricity than physicists say is possible.
02:26:57.000 Videos show his contraption turning water into a frothy mix within seconds.
02:27:02.000 Takes so much energy to separate H2 from the O, said Ohio State University professor emeritus Neville Rieh.
02:27:10.000 Physicists for more than 41 years that energy is pretty much not changed with time It's a fixed amount and nothing changes that Myers work defies the laws of conservation of energy Which states that energy cannot be created or destroyed?
02:27:23.000 Basically, it says you cannot get something for nothing He may have had a nice way to store hydrogen and use it to make a very effective motor But there is no way to do something fancy and separate hydrogen with less energy hmm So who knows?
02:27:41.000 But when he said, the Lord sent me, okay, now it gets odd.
02:27:45.000 His first few words were, the Lord sent me here to this home.
02:27:49.000 I'd like to use your home as an experiment.
02:27:52.000 Okay, hold on.
02:27:53.000 Meyer's creativity seemed to peak when he met Charles and Valerie Hughes, truck drivers who lived in the Jackson Township.
02:28:00.000 Julia Hughes, the youngest of the seven children, was five years old when Meyer rang the doorbell of her home on Mar Lane Drive.
02:28:09.000 His first few words were, the Lord sent me here to this home.
02:28:12.000 I'd like to use your home as an experiment, she said.
02:28:14.000 Maybe it was just a two-story garage shop or the privacy of towering oak and sycamore trees.
02:28:19.000 Julia isn't sure what Meyer saw there, but she knew her parents didn't have room for a struggling inventor.
02:28:25.000 Yet after visiting with the family for several hours, Meyer stayed the night and then the next few years in the late 1970s.
02:28:32.000 In return, Meyer built the family a solar silo designed to both heat and cool the home.
02:28:38.000 The structure required thousands of clear resin light guides, a crude form of fiber optics which Meyer baked and molded in the family kitchen.
02:28:47.000 Jesus.
02:28:48.000 Julia Hughes recalled the chemical stench the system was supposed to channel the sun's rays into the tower base to heat water and generate electricity for an air conditioner.
02:28:58.000 Despite extensive efforts that included re-plumbing the house, the invention never worked.
02:29:02.000 Oh, so he might have been a kook.
02:29:04.000 Hard to tell.
02:29:05.000 But I tell you what, you love a conspiracy theory.
02:29:09.000 Oh, I love them.
02:29:09.000 I know you do.
02:29:10.000 I'm less...
02:29:11.000 I'm seduced by some.
02:29:13.000 Yeah.
02:29:14.000 But I'm probably less into them than you are.
02:29:18.000 I will say this.
02:29:20.000 The more you delve into the relationship between business and science and the way that our lives run, it's very difficult not to...
02:29:30.000 To assume that many ideas are quashed because they're not helpful for certain businesses.
02:29:36.000 Unquestionable.
02:29:36.000 And I think the automotive industry is and has been at the forefront of that.
02:29:41.000 Well, the oil business.
02:29:43.000 Just the oil business in general.
02:29:44.000 Speaking of, before we go too far, one of the kids remembered some people showed up at the house and offered him, quote, $250 million to stop.
02:29:55.000 Yeah, the Arabs wanted to offer me 250 million dollars to stop today.
02:29:59.000 You and this lovely family can live in peace and prosperity the rest of your days.
02:30:04.000 Meyer told them this.
02:30:05.000 The army officials meanwhile had questioned Meyer about what foreigners wanted, thinking that the deal might have been struck.
02:30:12.000 Charlie recalled Meyer telling the family, Meyer discussed the offer in the Clark documentary many times over the last decade have been offered enormous amounts of money.
02:30:29.000 Hmm.
02:30:34.000 I'll tell you why.
02:30:36.000 Sure.
02:30:37.000 An event that happened here that did shake my...
02:30:41.000 I'm less cynical.
02:30:43.000 I'm less likely to be as interested in conspiracy theories.
02:30:49.000 Maybe I lack your imagination.
02:30:51.000 I don't know what it is.
02:30:53.000 Maybe I'm terrified of the fact that I'm being taken for a ride in too many areas of my life.
02:30:58.000 But Dieselgate, the Volkswagen thing that happened in this country, really shook me.
02:31:03.000 Because I didn't think something could have happened on that scale.
02:31:06.000 Explain it to people, because it's pretty crazy.
02:31:09.000 Well, effectively, Volkswagen were...
02:31:14.000 Able to put software into their vehicles that allowed them to cheat in emissions tests.
02:31:20.000 And a load of vehicles that had stated emissions qualities didn't have them when they were not on the test rig.
02:31:29.000 And actually that process had been going on in many different ways for most motorcars forever.
02:31:36.000 But the scale on which they offended and the fact they did it in the US meant they got absolutely hammered for it.
02:31:41.000 But if you have an Audi RS4 from 2007 and you start the engine up, it idles in an odd way.
02:31:49.000 The car feels very aggressive for the first 30 seconds that you start it.
02:31:52.000 That's because there's an air pump inside the car that is basically forcing air through the exhaust faster than it needs to, so that when you put it on a test rig, it has lower emissions than it should do.
02:32:03.000 This has been going on for a long time.
02:32:05.000 But the scale of it was, I suppose, an industrial subterfuge that I didn't think could happen.
02:32:14.000 Right.
02:32:15.000 Especially with a large corporation like Volkswagen.
02:32:17.000 I know.
02:32:18.000 That did shake me.
02:32:20.000 I'm a flag bearer for my industry.
02:32:22.000 I'm proud to be part of the wider car industry.
02:32:25.000 And I didn't think that could happen.
02:32:26.000 And it wasn't just a bit of naughtiness.
02:32:30.000 It was lies.
02:32:32.000 And how many people knew about it?
02:32:38.000 One has to assume quite a few.
02:32:40.000 Yeah, you'd assume.
02:32:41.000 But I think there was a moral complication to it because they were still making very clever, really quite clean vehicles.
02:32:51.000 They weren't trying to cover up something absolutely hideous.
02:32:57.000 They were in the margins.
02:32:59.000 But it was still wrong.
02:33:01.000 It was morally completely wrong.
02:33:03.000 And once they got away with it, they were stuck with it.
02:33:06.000 They couldn't suddenly backtrack on it.
02:33:08.000 Right.
02:33:09.000 And I think the...
02:33:12.000 It shook my confidence in those large corporations.
02:33:15.000 I thought they were being more honest with us and probably made me more likely to believe conspiracy theories afterwards.
02:33:21.000 So I thought, well, if they're capable of that, what else are they doing?
02:33:25.000 Conspiracy theories are fascinating because some of them are bullshit and some of them are real and it's hard to figure out what's what.
02:33:31.000 Yeah.
02:33:32.000 You know, there's some crazy ones like the earth is flat and then there's some ones like the CIA might have killed JFK. Yeah.
02:33:38.000 And you're like, ooh, they might have.
02:33:41.000 They might have.
02:33:42.000 It makes very good listening.
02:33:44.000 I love listening to you talk about it.
02:33:45.000 Oh, they're fascinating.
02:33:46.000 But I suppose I tend to sit a bit further back and just, I'd like to hear other people talk about them.
02:33:51.000 But when it enters your world, when something becomes pertinent to you, you suddenly go, hang on a minute, what else have they been doing here?
02:33:59.000 And how bad was it?
02:34:00.000 And how many of them did they get away with?
02:34:03.000 Yeah.
02:34:04.000 For everyone that gets caught, it's not like they catch every conspiracy.
02:34:07.000 Yeah.
02:34:07.000 There's no way.
02:34:09.000 No.
02:34:09.000 No, some of them sneak through and manage to be effective.
02:34:13.000 Do you know the latest one about this gentleman who was a billionaire who had apparently overvalued his company and went to court for it and the possibility of him...
02:34:27.000 Winning this court battle was something like one half of one percent.
02:34:31.000 This is Mike Lynch, is it?
02:34:32.000 Yeah, the guy who just died on the boat.
02:34:35.000 And then right after he gets out, the guy who he's with, the co-defendant, gets hit by a car, and then he gets hit by a freak water spout and sinks his yacht.
02:34:47.000 I was discussing this over a few glasses of wine with some friends.
02:34:51.000 It's a good one.
02:34:51.000 It's got Rogan written all over it.
02:34:53.000 It's perfect for you.
02:34:55.000 It's so juicy.
02:34:56.000 I'm not going to pass any comment.
02:34:57.000 I'm going to be a soft cock again.
02:34:59.000 But I'm going to say that I read it and my eyes, well, my eyebrows raised.
02:35:04.000 I thought, that seems like a coincidence.
02:35:06.000 Didn't the lawyer die as well?
02:35:09.000 Who else died?
02:35:10.000 The co-defendant was hit by a car.
02:35:13.000 In Cambridge.
02:35:15.000 One incident was a cycling incident in the UK. Was it a hit and run?
02:35:20.000 No, the person that hit the cyclist, I think they have got.
02:35:25.000 But they were asking for information around it.
02:35:27.000 Did the person that hit the cyclist have any connection to anybody?
02:35:32.000 I don't know.
02:35:33.000 Was it suspicious?
02:35:35.000 I just read it and thought, like you, I'm like, oh my god.
02:35:38.000 Yeah, billionaire autonomy co-founder Mike Lynch and Stephen Chamberlain's careers were intertwined for years in a fraud trial.
02:35:46.000 Then they died on the same day, miles apart.
02:35:52.000 I think, I suppose, the difficulty I have with that is...
02:35:58.000 That's a tragedy.
02:36:00.000 They fucked over some billionaires.
02:36:02.000 They fucked over some very, very powerful...
02:36:05.000 It was Hewlett-Packard.
02:36:06.000 Yeah.
02:36:06.000 So they sold autonomy to Hewlett-Packard and there was a big...
02:36:11.000 He was extradited to the US and...
02:36:15.000 I don't know.
02:36:16.000 It's not my world.
02:36:17.000 I suppose the conspiracy theory thing is fascinating.
02:36:21.000 But then when it's in the context of people losing their lives like that, I'm like, do I want to comment?
02:36:25.000 Because it's so awful what happened.
02:36:27.000 And also going down in a boat was right up there for me.
02:36:32.000 Jesus Christ.
02:36:34.000 Also a freak water spout.
02:36:35.000 Have you seen the size of this boat?
02:36:37.000 Yeah.
02:36:38.000 It's like 300 feet long.
02:36:40.000 Yeah.
02:36:41.000 How?
02:36:41.000 Yeah.
02:36:42.000 How did it sink?
02:36:43.000 What happened?
02:36:44.000 I know.
02:36:44.000 You love it, don't you?
02:36:45.000 Love it.
02:36:45.000 You absolutely love it, don't you?
02:36:47.000 Love it.
02:36:47.000 Because I gotta think that there's people in this world that have the ability to do certain things to certain people that fuck them over.
02:36:56.000 I think you're right.
02:36:57.000 Yeah.
02:36:57.000 And that seems like that would qualify.
02:37:01.000 We're talking about they got ripped off by billions of dollars and then somehow or another this guy gets off and then dies right away.
02:37:10.000 Yeah.
02:37:11.000 And dies in the weirdest of ways?
02:37:13.000 A freak water spout?
02:37:15.000 How many people die every year in freak water spouts on 300 foot yachts?
02:37:21.000 I'm doing my uncomfortable face.
02:37:24.000 It's so out there.
02:37:26.000 It's so out there.
02:37:27.000 Yeah.
02:37:28.000 It really is.
02:37:29.000 And I'll bring it back to something more mundane.
02:37:32.000 There were quite a lot of things that happened in Formula One, a sport that I follow the most closely probably, in the 90s and noughties, that looking back...
02:37:42.000 You think there must have been, someone had a button that could make things happen.
02:37:46.000 Because it was so beyond a coincidence.
02:37:49.000 And I never stopped to think of the implications of that thought.
02:37:52.000 But if someone could do that in a sport, they can do it in the rest of your lives, aren't they?
02:37:56.000 And they've always rigged sports.
02:37:58.000 I mean, people have been rigging sports since the beginning of sports betting.
02:38:02.000 But the sport that you're involved with, can you rig that?
02:38:04.000 Oh, yes.
02:38:05.000 People have rigged it.
02:38:06.000 People have gotten in trouble for rigging it.
02:38:09.000 Certain fighters may have an injury.
02:38:12.000 There's a controversy about a certain trainer that was involved in betting and an online discord.
02:38:20.000 Server and they would talk about bets and he'd make a lot of bets and he was making more money betting than other things and there was a fighter that he was taking care of and that fighter apparently had a knee injury and went into the fight and then all this money got bet on this guy losing in the first round and so he throws a kick in the first round,
02:38:41.000 falls down, gets beat up, loses by TKO in the first round, blows his knee out.
02:38:45.000 His knee had apparently already been fucked.
02:38:47.000 And so this guy, who is the trainer, he's being investigated by the feds.
02:38:52.000 He gets kicked out of the sport.
02:38:55.000 No one from his gym is allowed to compete in the UFC anymore.
02:38:58.000 And he's under investigation.
02:39:00.000 And if it turns out that what they're saying about him is true, he's really rightly fucked.
02:39:05.000 Yeah.
02:39:06.000 I think, actually, there's a crossover here between conspiracy and cheating.
02:39:11.000 Now, I think the greatest book that's not been written And never will be written is the greatest cheats in motorsport.
02:39:18.000 Some of the stories I've heard over the years are so good.
02:39:22.000 Because what they do is they reveal the competitive nature of human beings, but also ingenuity.
02:39:30.000 You'll see people that are most ingenious when they're cheating, not when they're abiding by the rules.
02:39:34.000 And Formula One is about...
02:39:36.000 The phrase that the great Mark Donoghue, one of your great drivers, Mark Donoghue was a Can-Am driver who did a bit of Formula One as well.
02:39:42.000 He coined the phrase the unfair advantage, which is a phrase I love because it just defines so many sports.
02:39:49.000 Whether we like it or not, we're searching for the unfair advantage, aren't we?
02:39:53.000 And in motorsports, some of the cheats I've heard about are just brilliant.
02:39:56.000 Like what kind of stuff?
02:39:59.000 I can remember hearing a guy called Wynne Percy, who was a touring car driver from the UK in the 60s and 70s, describing how there was a famous commentator we had called Murray Walker.
02:40:11.000 He was the voice of our motorsport for 40 years.
02:40:14.000 He had a very distinctive voice.
02:40:16.000 He was a lovely man.
02:40:17.000 Met him a few times.
02:40:18.000 And he'd often describe Wynne Percy getting out of this particular car he'd been racing covered in sweat because it was such a monster to drive.
02:40:27.000 But it turned out that it was a V12 and it was very, very thirsty.
02:40:30.000 So to make sure that when they did a fuel check at the end of the race, to make sure they were abiding by the rules, he would be furiously pumping a hand pump underneath the seat to inflate a bladder in the fuel tank to cut off a load of the volume.
02:40:44.000 Ah!
02:40:45.000 And he told this story about it.
02:40:46.000 I don't think I'm misquoting it.
02:40:47.000 He said, well, that's why I was knackered.
02:40:48.000 It wasn't because it was a V12, because on the warm-down lap, I knew I had to pump this thing, like, 40 times to fill up the bladder.
02:40:55.000 Wow.
02:40:55.000 And there's amazing stories of just ingenious cheats.
02:41:00.000 I mean, there's so many of them.
02:41:01.000 I mean, Formula One is about...
02:41:03.000 Not getting caught.
02:41:04.000 That's really what it's about.
02:41:06.000 What's the line between interpreting rules and not getting caught?
02:41:10.000 And I love all of that.
02:41:12.000 And I have a few times said to people I know in those sports, can I write that book?
02:41:17.000 Will you tell me?
02:41:18.000 They went, no.
02:41:18.000 I won't tell you any of the stories.
02:41:20.000 I'll tell them to you now as a friend.
02:41:22.000 But if they're ever published, I'm a dead man.
02:41:25.000 Right.
02:41:25.000 Because of all the money involved.
02:41:27.000 But the ingenious cheating.
02:41:28.000 I mean, in 1995...
02:41:31.000 Toyota was excluded from the World Running Championship because it just had a brilliantly simple piece of cheating.
02:41:38.000 All the world running cars were turbocharged, and you have what's called a restrictor, an intake restrictor, so you actually make sure that you can't take more than a certain amount of air into the turbocharger, which should limit the power and make it a level playing field.
02:41:51.000 But they created this brilliantly simple bypass valve that meant that when the car was running, the air would just go round, and the intake restrictor was completely redundant.
02:42:00.000 What they didn't realise was that the World Rally Championship had a couple of situations where the cars would run side by side.
02:42:07.000 It would be a drag race.
02:42:08.000 And so the Toyota just fucked off into the distance.
02:42:12.000 And everyone went, well, they're cheating, aren't they?
02:42:14.000 And then they found it.
02:42:16.000 But this was perpetrated by Toyota, by a car company.
02:42:21.000 And I suppose those things I find fascinating.
02:42:24.000 Wouldn't you tell them to don't get ahead in the straightaway?
02:42:27.000 They didn't tell.
02:42:28.000 The driver and co-driver didn't know.
02:42:33.000 Dirty.
02:42:34.000 They just knew that sometimes when they got in a car, someone did that with a lever.
02:42:38.000 They didn't know.
02:42:40.000 And Formula One is not big in America, which is odd.
02:42:44.000 So how do you feel about it here in Austin?
02:42:46.000 Well, I saw it in Austin.
02:42:47.000 It's amazing.
02:42:48.000 I love it.
02:42:49.000 I went to CODA. We have that up there.
02:42:52.000 That's CODA. My friend Bobby owns the place.
02:42:55.000 So he took me around and showed me and we went there for the races.
02:43:00.000 It's incredible.
02:43:01.000 They put on one of the best races of the season here, isn't it?
02:43:03.000 Awesome.
02:43:03.000 The track's incredible, and it's so fast.
02:43:05.000 They're going so fast.
02:43:06.000 It's so wild to watch.
02:43:08.000 And I find it amazing how huge NASCAR is here, where they're just going around in an oval.
02:43:14.000 They do have some street circuits, don't they?
02:43:15.000 They do have some shorter ovals, but yeah, Formula One is more complex.
02:43:20.000 Way more complex.
02:43:20.000 And the vehicles themselves are so incredible, and they're so expensive.
02:43:27.000 It's just unbelievable how much money is involved in Formula One.
02:43:31.000 So it makes sense why people cheat a little bit.
02:43:34.000 I think it's this grey area of interpreting a rulebook that's complicated, but also trying not to get caught.
02:43:42.000 And just the way that they've, through the years, and it creates subterfuge.
02:43:49.000 It creates games.
02:43:50.000 Another great story, we covered this on Top Gear, was one of the great interpreters of the rulebook was Colin Chapman, who was the man that founded Lotus.
02:43:58.000 And he had found a way in something called the Lotus.
02:44:02.000 I think it was 77. It was a car that Andretti won the championship in.
02:44:07.000 They created something called ground effect.
02:44:10.000 So it's now a common thing.
02:44:11.000 But he worked out that if you sealed the sides of a car on the road, you could effectively accelerate air underneath the car and create a low-pressure area which basically sucked the car to the ground.
02:44:21.000 So you were generating downforce, not through wings, but through accelerating air under the car.
02:44:26.000 By the way, any engineers listen to this, I'm not an engineer, but I'm basically understanding of it, having driven these things.
02:44:30.000 But if my terminology is wrong, I apologise.
02:44:33.000 But effectively, you're generating downforce in a way that you can't see it on the vehicle.
02:44:37.000 It's not got wings.
02:44:40.000 And what they would do is they'd lower these...
02:44:41.000 There was a sort of a handle.
02:44:42.000 They'd lower these skirts when they went out onto the track.
02:44:44.000 So when the car went out on track, in the paddock, it looked like a normal car.
02:44:50.000 But they were going so much faster than everyone else, he needed to find a way of diverting the attention to the other teams.
02:44:58.000 So what he would do was, at the end of a test session, quite often, he'd have a guy scuttle from the back of the garage.
02:45:04.000 It was something underneath a piece of, like, cotton or something, or a blanket, and run over towards a service truck.
02:45:11.000 And everyone would see him do it.
02:45:12.000 So all the teams were like, they've got a trick differential, they've got something special.
02:45:16.000 But it wasn't.
02:45:17.000 It was a kettle.
02:45:19.000 It was a kettle this guy was running around with underneath the towel, just so everyone thought it was a component.
02:45:24.000 It was a total diversion.
02:45:26.000 And I met the guy that used to just run around with this.
02:45:30.000 It was like a teapotty kettle thing.
02:45:32.000 He was just told, at the end of the session, put that under there and run away with it.
02:45:35.000 So everyone thinks it's like a differential or something.
02:45:38.000 And I think that's where I love motorsport.
02:45:42.000 Because it brings out these bizarre competitive human behaviours.
02:45:47.000 But it's also the margins of victory are so slim.
02:45:50.000 If you have the same horsepower, same compound tyres, just different engineers...
02:45:57.000 Putting it all together in different drivers.
02:45:58.000 But they are completely different vehicles.
02:45:59.000 Yes, they may have the same tyres.
02:46:01.000 Right.
02:46:01.000 But these are a bunch of people, 400 people in different parts of the world are told, this is the rule book, away you go and they are within a tenth of each other on a track.
02:46:13.000 Yeah.
02:46:13.000 It's amazing.
02:46:14.000 Amazing.
02:46:15.000 It is amazing.
02:46:15.000 Yeah.
02:46:16.000 But they're all at it.
02:46:18.000 See, there's always some conspiracy at the moment.
02:46:20.000 Red Bull...
02:46:21.000 Apparently everyone thought they had some special brake system that they've now had to get rid of because the FIA was aware of it.
02:46:28.000 Now Red Bull's complaining that McLaren and Mercedes have got flexible front wings.
02:46:32.000 It is the politics of the playground being played out with billions of dollars on a racetrack.
02:46:40.000 And that's why I'm totally addicted to it at the moment.
02:46:42.000 And how much of that engineering and technology gets to consumer cars?
02:46:46.000 It's a good question.
02:46:50.000 I think direct crossover, there's some, but not as much as you'd hope.
02:46:55.000 But it's undeniable that the brains that are involved in that sport, when they go over to the road car side, carry with them a curiosity and a skill set that's been so enhanced by what they learned on the racetrack that we all benefit.
02:47:10.000 I believe that.
02:47:11.000 I think if you look for direct crossovers in all of these places, you come away disappointed.
02:47:17.000 But if you tell me that the person that has run Max Verstappen's car for the last three years If he went to be involved in the next Tesla Model 3, he's going to have a profound effect on it.
02:47:28.000 He's going to know shit.
02:47:29.000 He's going to have a way of looking at that project that's going to make it profoundly better.
02:47:34.000 I believe that.
02:47:35.000 I once wrote a story for some in-house magazine, I think for BAR Racing, when they had a race team, about the crossover between aeronautical engineering and Formula One.
02:47:44.000 That's profound.
02:47:45.000 That really is.
02:47:46.000 I mean...
02:47:47.000 The way a Formula One car sucks itself to the track is an upside down plane.
02:47:50.000 But there were further things as well.
02:47:52.000 The carbon ceramic brake disc was developed for what?
02:47:55.000 Concorde.
02:47:57.000 Really?
02:47:58.000 They couldn't stop Concorde.
02:47:59.000 It was going through brakes, obviously.
02:48:02.000 And someone went, well, why don't we use different material for the rotor?
02:48:05.000 And that's where the carbon ceramic brake came from.
02:48:09.000 So there was this huge crossover in metallurgy.
02:48:12.000 And actually, to broaden that, what's the greatest legacy of your, frankly, amazing, mind-boggling...
02:48:19.000 National Space Programme.
02:48:21.000 It's what we learned about materials, isn't it?
02:48:24.000 NASA served to teach us all about materials.
02:48:28.000 We are benefiting now.
02:48:31.000 There's something about the Raptor you'll go home in.
02:48:34.000 That wouldn't be there if NASA hadn't needed to have some weird material with a property that hadn't been required before.
02:48:41.000 I really believe that.
02:48:42.000 That's the incredible corollary of projects that are ambitious projects on that scale.
02:48:49.000 It has to be with the Defense Department and the construction of fighter jets.
02:48:54.000 Oh, aren't they?
02:48:55.000 I'm just fascinated by them.
02:48:57.000 We did a film with the F-35.
02:48:59.000 I raced an F-35 in a McLaren Speedtail.
02:49:04.000 And the level of classification around the vehicle was so difficult.
02:49:07.000 Because I didn't realise that we don't...
02:49:09.000 As a British government, we don't own those planes.
02:49:11.000 We lease them from you.
02:49:12.000 We're not allowed to own them.
02:49:14.000 Really?
02:49:14.000 Yeah.
02:49:14.000 So the IP stays with you guys.
02:49:16.000 And what we do with them is kind of up to you.
02:49:19.000 But we weren't allowed any cockpit shots at all.
02:49:22.000 We weren't allowed to see it inside it.
02:49:24.000 I just got a description from the pilot of what the aircraft could do.
02:49:27.000 Well, you know, they're doing those fighter jets now with AI running them.
02:49:32.000 And they beat human pilots 100% of the time in dogfights.
02:49:36.000 Do they?
02:49:36.000 Yeah.
02:49:37.000 The F-35 was one of the coolest man-made objects I've ever seen.
02:49:41.000 They're incredible.
02:49:42.000 We had to go up there to...
02:49:44.000 So actually, it was a bit like that bungee jump thing.
02:49:47.000 This was so serious that we had to be rigorous.
02:49:50.000 For example, in the theatre of war, I'm not sure you can decide whether the ground is full of chips of stones or not, but they have a decontaminated area.
02:50:00.000 You're not allowed to go in there and drop litter because it can get sucked up when it's doing that hovering thing.
02:50:05.000 So you go in there, you're decontaminated.
02:50:07.000 And we spent several days working out how to run this drag race.
02:50:11.000 It started out with a genuine drag race between me in a McLaren and this F-35.
02:50:16.000 And they had their data on how it accelerated.
02:50:19.000 And we had McLaren there with their data.
02:50:21.000 And they worked out that the car would get off the line much quicker than the plane would overtake at a certain point.
02:50:26.000 But I was told very clearly...
02:50:29.000 I couldn't get in the wash of the aircraft as it took off because it would just flip the car backwards.
02:50:34.000 And we had to sort of choreograph that bit.
02:50:36.000 Not fake it, but choreograph it.
02:50:38.000 So anyhow, first run we did, I was told that I'd be absolutely safe.
02:50:42.000 I'd be so far ahead of the plane.
02:50:43.000 That the plane would then be in the air by the time it went over me and we'd be away.
02:50:48.000 Anyhow, first run we do, I'm like this in this McLaren.
02:50:51.000 It's fucking fast.
02:50:52.000 And it accelerates and I look left and I hear a noise and there's a plane coming past me on the ground.
02:50:59.000 And I thought, I'm in trouble here.
02:51:00.000 And the front wheels of the car came off the ground.
02:51:03.000 Whoa!
02:51:04.000 At about 137 miles an hour.
02:51:06.000 It didn't do that.
02:51:09.000 Any racing driver would tell you, and I'm a pretty poor racing driver, you know when the front wheels aren't on the ground.
02:51:14.000 What do you do?
02:51:15.000 Well, you just shit yourself.
02:51:18.000 And you're so invested in it.
02:51:19.000 You're like, well, if it's going over, if it's going over, this is the greatest piece of television ever.
02:51:24.000 And I hope it doesn't.
02:51:25.000 And the thing went.
02:51:27.000 It just went next to me.
02:51:29.000 And again...
02:51:31.000 This is why I want to be someone that expresses joy.
02:51:36.000 What a thing to have done.
02:51:38.000 And when an F-35 comes past you and it's just got off the ground...
02:51:42.000 Is this right here?
02:51:42.000 Yeah, you were.
02:51:43.000 When this thing comes past you, it just started screaming, Fuck!
02:51:48.000 Does it show your front wheel?
02:51:50.000 Look at that!
02:51:50.000 Look at that thing there!
02:51:51.000 Wow, that's incredible.
02:51:53.000 It's so nuts that they put you next to that thing, though.
02:51:56.000 When it was right by me, it fucking...
02:51:59.000 We never showed.
02:52:01.000 You're going 218 miles an hour?
02:52:03.000 No, that's the kilometers.
02:52:04.000 Oh, kilometers.
02:52:04.000 It comes past me like that.
02:52:06.000 Bang!
02:52:08.000 And I just thought, as it did it, the front wheels just went...
02:52:12.000 And I thought, well, I'm in trouble here.
02:52:16.000 Wow.
02:52:18.000 But the power and the sound.
02:52:20.000 You know, you talk about the internal combustion engine.
02:52:22.000 Why these electric things make no sound.
02:52:24.000 We are amateurs compared to what they get to play with.
02:52:27.000 Yeah.
02:52:27.000 And they have like, what, 30 minutes of flight time before they run out of gas?
02:52:31.000 I don't think that thing can go very far.
02:52:33.000 But, you know, all this vecturing.
02:52:35.000 The way it can just decide to be hanging like a helicopter.
02:52:38.000 Yeah, incredible.
02:52:40.000 It's remarkable.
02:52:41.000 But they don't share the IP at all.
02:52:43.000 You're not allowed to.
02:52:43.000 We were not allowed to see inside it.
02:52:46.000 That is so wild that it can do that.
02:52:48.000 Just hover in the air like that and shoot its draft down.
02:52:52.000 Fucking crazy.
02:52:53.000 Maybe that's the TV show.
02:52:55.000 I just think there's a whole...
02:52:57.000 Is it boys' toys?
02:52:59.000 There's a whole load of stuff that's got moving past.
02:53:03.000 I think you're overthinking it.
02:53:04.000 I just love it.
02:53:05.000 I think you and your passion for automobiles is all you need.
02:53:08.000 Do it on the internet.
02:53:09.000 It'll be huge.
02:53:10.000 I hope so.
02:53:11.000 I think so.
02:53:12.000 I don't think you need anything else.
02:53:13.000 I quite like those things though.
02:53:15.000 They're pretty badass.
02:53:16.000 If you can get a hold of one of those, that's great too.
02:53:18.000 With an F-22, have you been to an air show and seen one of those?
02:53:20.000 I flew in an F-A-18.
02:53:22.000 Did you?
02:53:22.000 Yeah, with the Blue Angels.
02:53:23.000 Wow.
02:53:24.000 It was insane.
02:53:25.000 Insane.
02:53:26.000 Yeah, insane.
02:53:27.000 Just the G-4, the physical effect on your body is so extraordinary.
02:53:31.000 Yeah.
02:53:31.000 You know, they don't use G-suits either.
02:53:33.000 They don't use gravity suits.
02:53:34.000 So you have to hook.
02:53:35.000 So you hold on to the...
02:53:37.000 And then you do that blurry thing.
02:53:39.000 Hook, hook, hook.
02:53:39.000 You're forcing blood, and you feel your consciousness closing like an elevator door.
02:53:44.000 You see it.
02:53:45.000 You see the darkness coming from the left and the right, and you're fighting it off.
02:53:48.000 I wasn't very good at it.
02:53:49.000 I thought I'd be...
02:53:50.000 I always thought I'd be quite good, because people of our height should be quite good at it.
02:53:54.000 But I felt it...
02:53:55.000 I got put up in one of those extra 300s, the stunt planes.
02:53:58.000 It's a prop thing, but they're the ones that they use in the Red Bull air races.
02:54:02.000 And once he got to sort of 6, 7 Gs, I started to see...
02:54:07.000 Yeah, you have to fight it all.
02:54:09.000 I think I got to 7.5 Gs, but those guys can go to like 9, 10 Gs like that.
02:54:13.000 It's fucking insane.
02:54:14.000 The pressure and the maneuverability of these things.
02:54:18.000 The pilot took me through like this canyon and you're, you know, 100, 200 feet off the ground.
02:54:26.000 Just flying through his can sideways.
02:54:28.000 It's fucking insane.
02:54:30.000 Insane.
02:54:31.000 I did a ridiculous film, looking back, with a guy called Andy Green.
02:54:35.000 Do you know who Andy Green is?
02:54:36.000 Fastest man on earth.
02:54:37.000 He's the one that still holds the world's land speed record.
02:54:39.000 So he drove Thrust SSC. He was the first man to go supersonic in a car.
02:54:46.000 And they had this thing called Bloodhound.
02:54:50.000 This is the last thing I'll bore you with on this podcast.
02:54:52.000 So they had this thing called Bloodhound, which was supposed to go 1,000 miles an hour.
02:54:56.000 And they were going to drive it on some salt flats or something that had dried out in South Africa, I think.
02:55:04.000 Anyhow, it was supposed to be funded by industry.
02:55:07.000 They lost a lot of sponsors and they decided to try and publicly fund it and they couldn't.
02:55:11.000 And Andy, during that phase, said...
02:55:14.000 I've got an extra 300. He's an ex-pilot, fighter pilot, because they're the only people that can drive these things.
02:55:19.000 Racing drivers are useless because the decision-making is so quick and profound.
02:55:22.000 They identified early on they need pilots, not racing drivers.
02:55:26.000 He said, I've got an extra 300, and this car has got various stages of propulsion.
02:55:30.000 You start off with a jet, then it goes to a rocket, and he goes...
02:55:36.000 It's madness.
02:55:37.000 He goes, I've got an extra 300 and I've developed a way of doing aerobatic moves that will demonstrate the change in G-force during the run.
02:55:46.000 So he's put...
02:55:47.000 Just bore yourself with it.
02:55:48.000 He's put...
02:55:49.000 There's a film.
02:55:50.000 If you type in my name...
02:55:52.000 Look at that fucking thing.
02:55:53.000 Type in my name and his name.
02:55:54.000 And there's a film on YouTube of him taking me up in this stunt plane to put me through the Gs that he'll have in the part.
02:56:02.000 And honestly, by the end of it, How fast did he go in this thing?
02:56:07.000 Oh my god, look at that.
02:56:08.000 He had oversteer at over 600 miles an hour.
02:56:12.000 Look at it!
02:56:14.000 That was in the US. Wow.
02:56:18.000 But the way he put me through the G-forces, I would have been a terrible fighter pilot.
02:56:24.000 I kept getting gray, kept graying out.
02:56:27.000 I was pumping and everything.
02:56:28.000 Yeah, well, those guys are all jacked.
02:56:29.000 That's one thing I found out about the Blue Angels they had.
02:56:31.000 Like, when you go to their training facility, there's weightlifting equipment everywhere.
02:56:36.000 You have to have muscle because you're literally...
02:56:39.000 It's like brute force.
02:56:41.000 But you should have been brilliant at it then.
02:56:42.000 Yeah, it's not fun.
02:56:45.000 It's a lot of work.
02:56:46.000 So when I do some YouTube videos with cars, can I come and drag you into a car?
02:56:51.000 Yes!
02:56:51.000 Let's do it.
02:56:52.000 I'm in.
02:56:53.000 Let's go.
02:56:54.000 I've loved talking to you.
02:56:55.000 Thank you very much.
02:56:55.000 I love talking to you too.
02:56:56.000 Thanks for being here, man.
02:56:57.000 It's great to see you again.
02:56:58.000 After all these years.
02:56:59.000 I'll be back in 10 years.
02:57:01.000 Nah, let's have it quicker.
02:57:02.000 And let's definitely get you on YouTube, on the internet.
02:57:06.000 Do your own thing, man.
02:57:07.000 It'll happen soon enough.
02:57:08.000 You don't need other people.
02:57:09.000 Thank you, man.
02:57:09.000 Fuck those people.
02:57:10.000 See you.
02:57:10.000 Bye, everybody.