In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, the comedian and podcaster talks about his new movie, Robin DiAngelo, and how he and his co-producer came up with the idea to make a movie about race and reparations. They also talk about how they got the idea for the movie and what it takes to get a white woman to do what they need her to do in order to get the movie to work. Also, they talk about what it's like to be a mascot for a movie and how it's actually hard to make money with a white mascot and how to get them to actually do what you need them to do. Joe also talks about why he thinks the movie would have worked better if it was made by a person of color and why he doesn't think it would have been as funny if it were directed by a white guy. And, of course, there's a special guest appearance by his good friend and former co-worker, Joe's mom, who plays the mascot in the movie. Thanks for tuning in, Joe! Cheers, Joe and Joe xoxo Check it out! -The Joe Rogans Experience -Jon Sorrentino and the crew Music by Ian Dorsch and the team at The Crew Thanks again for letting us use their music stylist and editing skills! -Jon and Ben again, again, for the music and editing and mixing it up! Thank you so much for all the music, Jon and Ben and the editing and sound design and production, and for the sound quality, and all the background music, and thanks for the production design and editing, and the production, we really appreciate all the feedback, it's a lot of effort and love, it really means a lot more than we can't thank you for making it so much, it means so much more than you can do it, we appreciate it. - Thank you, thank you, Jon & Ben, we're really appreciate it, really really much, really appreciate you, we mean it, it. -Jon & the support us, really mean it. Thank you Jon and the support you're amazing, really, really got it, and we appreciate you. -A lot, really much more, really good thanks, really appreciative, really well. -JOE & Ben & the crew. -SORRY FOR ALL THE LOVE, JOE & THE BOYS
00:01:21.000We went to a bar the night before the interview, and we came up with this idea.
00:01:26.000Could we get her to actually pay reparations to Ben, our black producer?
00:01:31.000And we had to kind of talk him into it.
00:01:35.000And, you know, it was really just like...
00:01:37.000In real time, I was there for about two hours, and it was an hour and a half of the most mind-numbing conversation where I'm just—none of that's in the movie because it's just me, like, fluff questions.
00:01:49.000And I'm repeating back to her own ideas so she knows that I'm a safe person.
00:01:53.000It's a safe space, and then you've got to build to it and build to it and build to it, and then finally you get to a point where you can do something a little weird.
00:02:51.000Because if all these people had said, oh yeah, I'll do it for free, or I'll do it for $200, just pay my travel, doesn't really make the point.
00:04:50.000Michelle Obama, when she was first lady, she had multiple stories that she would tell about as first lady being discriminated against because of her race, allegedly.
00:05:00.000And one of them was, she was in line for ice cream or something, and someone cut in front of her.
00:05:07.000And she told this story in some interview, this very dramatic story about, well, they didn't see her because she's black.
00:05:13.000And meanwhile, it's like we've all been cut.
00:05:15.000Lady, people have cut in front of all of us.
00:05:17.000It's just that if it happens to me at Walmart, I don't think of it racially.
00:05:20.000I just think, oh, this person's an asshole.
00:06:12.000It drives me nuts that this is what we do now where if someone does something or says something, someone else is offended by it.
00:06:20.000That person who's offended gets to decide...
00:06:23.000What the intent was behind the other person's action to the extent that if the other person says, no, no, no, this was my intention, I'll tell you what it was, they don't get to have a say in the intentions behind their own actions.
00:06:34.000They are suddenly not authorities in their own behavior.
00:12:54.000But you would think that at least one positive you could draw from that is that, well, at least that means that systemic racism is not a problem in this country anymore.
00:13:03.000I mean, if a black guy could rise to the top of the system and run it, then clearly the system is not racist against black people.
00:13:11.000And in fact, was overwhelmingly voted into that position by Americans.
00:13:16.000So that is evidence that America isn't systemically racist against black people.
00:13:19.000But the race hustlers don't want us to draw that conclusion.
00:13:23.000They're worried that we'll look at Obama as president and say, okay, well, racism isn't a big issue anymore.
00:13:29.000And that's a problem for them because there's a lot of power, money, and influence to be found in the racism narrative.
00:13:34.000So they had to kind of like double up on their efforts to convince us that America is actually racist, which is why during Obama's term, that's when we started getting all these race hoaxes and the race riots and BLM. That's when things like people started talking about microaggressions and all this kind of nonsense.
00:13:52.000They needed to tell us that, yeah, you might think that this issue is kind of solved now, but it's not.
00:13:57.000Racism is actually worse than you ever imagined.
00:14:02.000And then not long after that, they started tearing down Confederate Civil War monuments and stuff.
00:14:08.000Stuff that's been there for like 100 years, which was always weird because 100 years ago, people could walk by a Robert E. Lee monument and not care.
00:14:18.000It wasn't a big deal to them, black or white.
00:14:21.000Now, all of a sudden, it's a bigger deal to us than it was to people whose parents fought.
00:14:28.000They had grandparents who fought in the Civil War, died in the Civil War.
00:16:18.000It's not that far of a leap to go from one to the other.
00:16:23.000And, of course, the issue is that Everybody who lived on Earth prior to about, certainly prior to 100 years ago, is racist by our standards today.
00:16:56.000And there was nobody on the planet who considered slavery to be wrong fundamentally.
00:17:02.000They might have had issues with how slaves are treated in some context, but it took like thousands of years for it to ever even occur to a single human on Earth that slavery is actually fundamentally wrong, which is a crazy thing.
00:17:15.000And that's actually an interesting thing you could talk about and think about.
00:17:19.000How could it be that it's so obvious to us, but some of the greatest minds of history, they never thought of it.
00:17:25.000But we can't talk about that because we have to talk about slavery and racism as if they're exclusively white Western phenomena.
00:17:32.000Well, I've had friends that have a different perspective on the Obama situation, and my friend Willie was talking to me about this, and he was saying that what happened was when you – look, one thing that we can be sure of is that racists are real.
00:17:47.000There are real racists in this country.
00:17:49.000There's real anti-black racists, anti-Asian racists.
00:17:52.000There are certain people that have hateful ideology in this country, just a certain percentage of them in the world.
00:17:59.000And when Obama became president, those people became more emboldened.
00:18:03.000And he said that he saw a lot more of that online and a lot more attacks, especially in uncensored online forums like 4chan and places where you can kind of get away with saying whatever the fuck you want.
00:18:17.000He said he saw a lot more of that on the streets and he said this is probably why he believed Michelle Obama didn't want to run for president because she experienced so much of that hate while they're in the White House.
00:18:28.000Forget about hate for their policies and what you think about them as president and first lady, but the racism hate.
00:18:37.000So his perspective as a black guy was like, you had to be a black person to realize how angry people were that there was a black guy who was president because that was real too.
00:18:46.000It was real that racism in American racial relations in America had changed radically since the 1960s.
00:18:54.000Certainly since the 1920s and 30s and over the years has kept getting better.
00:18:59.000But in his mind, there was something that happened where when Barack Obama got into the White House that the real hardcore racist got very vocal and he experienced it.
00:19:10.000And I think this is akin in some ways to what's going on with anti-Semitism online because I think there's always been a certain amount of people in this country and in the world that are like deeply anti-Semitic.
00:19:28.000And when something happens where all of a sudden now it's okay to criticize Jews because of Israel's position in Gaza and what they've done, now you see anti-Semitism just pop out of the woodwork.
00:19:41.000I think there's something like that, where people feel emboldened to talk about things.
00:19:46.000So, like, maybe we just don't have an accurate account of how fucked up some people are.
00:19:50.000But the general population, and whether you're conservative or whether you're liberal, everybody kind of agrees that racism is a stupid thing.
00:20:01.000There's amazing people of all ethnicities and colors, and you should judge people, like Martin Luther King said, by the content of their character.
00:20:10.000But there's a certain amount of people that are always going to be racist.
00:20:16.000But when you start looking for it everywhere and saying everything is racist, first of all, it's an insult to real racism.
00:20:24.000It's an insult to the people that are the victims of real racism when you consider microaggressions or cutting in line in front of you to get ice cream.
00:20:32.000There's people that are real victims of racism.
00:20:36.000And pretending that everything is racist just minimizes that and, in fact, probably makes more people racist.
00:20:43.000It's going to make a bunch of dumb liberals, like, drop to their knees or give you money for reparations.
00:20:49.000But it's going to make a bunch of other people really resentful.
00:20:52.000And it just polarizes us and drives people further and further apart.
00:22:57.000And you're right that then it's got this pendulum thing where, okay, well, if you go after white people and you demonize them relentlessly, and you do it practically from birth now through the school system, some of those white people are going to end up being stricken by guilt,
00:23:13.000and they're going to walk around feeling like they're guilty for something.
00:23:29.000And there's going to resentment that builds up, and you actually create more of it, which I think they're happy about.
00:23:34.000If actual racism is increasing in society, I don't know if it is or not, but I think the people that call themselves anti-racist are quite happy about that.
00:23:43.000But the other thing is, think about Robert D'Angelo, who you said just lives in her own bubble and really didn't know who you were and didn't catch on at any point in time that any of this stuff was ridiculous.
00:23:56.000Like, these people, if that's all you think about, and that's all you...
00:24:00.000Like, I have friends that live in California, and every now and then I'll talk to them, and some politics issue will come up.
00:24:08.000And they give me this fucking CNBC, they give me this MSNBC, this fucking propaganda viewpoint on something that's so wrong.
00:25:23.000And even when they're not, there's still power and influence, and they're being consulted as kind of these moral gurus, which strokes the ego.
00:25:34.000The more interesting thing is, what about the people who go to those people And consult them as moral gurus.
00:25:41.000I mean, in the movie, we have this race to dinner where you got these white women who sit around a table and they invite these other two women, Cyra Rao and Regina Jackson, to come to dinner.
00:25:52.000They pay them to come to dinner and call them racist for two hours.
00:25:56.000And it's like, why would you subject yourself to that?
00:25:59.000It seems like the most miserable experience to volunteer to be broken down and insulted and degraded, which is what happened to these women.
00:26:13.000They go around the table, confess their racist sins, and then they each go and they say what their racist sin, like, what's a racist thing you've done recently?
00:26:23.000They all confess, and I'm listening to it, and it's like, none of you have actually done anything racist.
00:27:05.000Like, I'm going to make sure I'm not racist.
00:27:06.000So I'm going to become an anti-racist.
00:27:08.000You know, I talked about this before, but when my kids were young, like my youngest was pretty young when they started doing this anti-racism thing at the school where they said it's not enough to be not racist.
00:28:01.000They just want to play with the people who are nice to them and who they have fun with and laugh with.
00:28:06.000And here you've got some fucking grifter who latches themselves onto some school system that's filled with all these terrified liberals that are just terrified of being called out for anything.
00:28:18.000And all the rules are changing and everybody's like, oh!
00:28:40.000I mean, I remember when my oldest daughter was five, we were at the mall or something, and a black family walked by, and she pointed at them and said...
00:29:15.000I think with these anti-racist people, if I was listening to them, I should have...
00:29:20.000This would have been an opportunity for me to give her a whole lecture about racism and make her feel really bad for noticing that and asking about it.
00:30:18.000When that's the threat, when being called racist is a threat, you can get them to do anything.
00:30:27.000Spoilers or whatever, but the last thing in the movie when I do my own anti-racist workshop with these people, and they're all real people, and we get them to join in on some things that are really morally repugnant.
00:30:43.000Because they're terrified of being called racist publicly.
00:30:48.000And the other thing that happens with kids is...
00:30:51.000If you have a thing, like you're telling the kid they have to be anti-racist, well, some kids are going to use that as a platform to increase whatever social cred that they have, and they get feedback from it.
00:31:05.000It's positive feedback, and they get very vocal, and the more vocal, the more people are impressed, and the more work they do, the more people are going, you're doing great work.
00:31:13.000And then you get what's essentially like the racial version of Greta Thunberg, Like, what is that lady?
00:31:19.000That lady's moral outrage at, what have you done?
00:31:58.000The moment they're out of their house, the moment they don't have their parents telling them what to do anymore, now they can tell other people what to do.
00:32:04.000It's one thing that you see online from people who have been bullied in the past.
00:32:11.000The people that have been picked on and fucked with, boy, they like to do it to people, like online, on Twitter mobs.
00:32:52.000Well, you're emotionally scarring people online every day, and you think you're doing it through this...
00:32:58.000It's like one of the things, Elon's talked about this, that one of the things that woke does, it allows really mean people, this ideology allows Really mean, shitty people to have a virtuous way of expressing that.
00:33:43.000But then people think that, well, okay, if I just say this on Twitter, I put it in a YouTube comment section, and it's this heinous, awful thing, it doesn't count.
00:33:51.000It doesn't mean I'm a bad person because it's not real life.
00:33:56.000Writing on a loose-leaf paper, calling someone a piece of shit and handing it to them, and then they get mad at you, and you say, hey man, it's the paper, it's not real life.
00:34:07.000It's a method for communicating, and so I think people have been...
00:34:13.000It's a condition that in this world it's like a moral exception so you can do and say whatever you want and you don't have to feel bad about it.
00:34:20.000And then it turns people into sociopaths after a while, I think.
00:35:16.000The kind of conflict, verbal conflict, that people engage in online all day long has the same sort of effects on your psyche.
00:35:23.000You are perceiving the world to be this—this is one of the things that's so polarizing about this particular election, right?
00:35:30.000That people are willing to accept propaganda because it feeds into their view of the world, which is that they're engaged in this moral battle, good versus evil.
00:35:41.000And both sides think they're good, and both sides think the other side is going to be the end of the world.
00:35:47.000And it's accentuated heavily by mentally ill people that are on Twitter all day long.
00:38:10.000The problem is if you do, and you do it just once, and then you get feedback, and then people say, hey, I really like what you posted.
00:38:17.000And then all of a sudden you're connected.
00:38:19.000And then you're looking for this feedback, so you're trying to post things to get likes, and you're trying to post things to get reposts, and get comments, and you're engaging in the comments, and now you're fucked.
00:38:29.000Now you're locked into this weird ecosystem with these people you don't even know.
00:40:36.000I mean, you're the product of what you take in, even if that information is, like, low impact.
00:40:42.000It's not the same impact as being there when the hitmen show up and gun the guys down in front of the cafe.
00:40:48.000I've seen these videos where it's just mass shootings.
00:40:51.000This one video I saw the other day of some gang violence situation.
00:40:54.000These guys drove by, gunned these guys down, and then the guys started shooting back, and they were all shot while they're shooting back, and then the car backs up, and then they gunned them down more.
00:41:31.000But it's like Twitter in that it's not a full experience.
00:41:35.000Like if you were having the kind of exchanges that some people have with each other where they're just ruthlessly insulting and shitty to people, if you were having those in person, there's a high probability that that's going to lead to violence.
00:41:47.000Actual violence like if two men are in a room and one man starts insulting this other person like really like viciously and Talking about their life and their family and all kinds of crazy shit that people do online.
00:42:00.000There's a probability It's more than zero percent that this is gonna result in violence, but there's zero possibility of it online It's just it's just free.
00:42:09.000It's a free shot And that's a part of the problem as well, is that it's not a real human interaction.
00:42:17.000So you're getting like these little doses of shittiness from people, but you're not getting this one burst where you and this guy are about to throw down.
00:42:25.000Because he's insulting you to the point where this person is actually dangerous.
00:42:31.000This could be a real bad situation here.
00:42:34.000And I think much like that exists on Twitter where you have these little shitty interactions.
00:42:39.000It's like 1% of real hate and it just adds up over time.
00:42:43.000That's the same thing as seeing violence, seeing all these executions, seeing all these botched robberies, seeing all these people that get murdered in some third world country.
00:42:54.000You just get a little tiny piece of it all the time, and it normalizes it.
00:43:00.000It's probably really, really bad for us.
00:43:03.000Do you pay attention to what people say about you online?
00:44:52.000But then at a certain point, you just have to sort of give into it and realize this is the way the internet works, I guess.
00:44:58.000Well, it's also who knows who's doing it.
00:45:00.000And at this point in time, we have to accept the reality of propaganda.
00:45:04.000And that there, you know, we've talked about this ad nauseum, but I'll say it again.
00:45:08.000There was an FBI former analyst did some sort of a study on Twitter, where he was estimating the amount of bots versus, this is like right around the time when Elon was saying that it's more than 5%.
00:45:23.000He thinks 80% of the accounts, yeah, 80% of the accounts are fake accounts.
00:45:28.000Which, just stop and think about if you're in a country, okay?
00:45:33.000Let's imagine you want the politics of America to swing in a certain direction, because we most certainly do this in other countries.
00:45:41.000I mean, we don't have to educate people on the long history of interventionist foreign policy, where we have gone in and installed new Leaders of countries and organized all kinds of shit.
00:45:55.000So we do it, and we do it, and we know they do it, but isn't it like the cheapest way to do it?
00:46:00.000Wouldn't it be to do it on social media?
00:46:02.000And if you did it, why would you do it like one account?
00:46:05.000Why wouldn't you have a million accounts?
00:46:07.000Like, just gotta get a computer that keeps making new accounts.
00:46:11.000And you run a program, it's not the most difficult thing to do.
00:46:13.000For people that know how to actually code operating systems, you don't think there's someone out there that can code a computer program that can operate millions of different Twitter accounts and you run it through some sort of AI that you've developed, some large language model on things to say about MAGA or things to say about abortion.
00:46:50.000And anytime there's a post about anything controversial, you insert something in there that gets people even more riled up.
00:46:57.000You could get people, you could swing the vote.
00:46:59.000You could swing the vote in one way or another, especially with fence-sitters, with people that are not sure, like, I don't know, is Trump really the answer?
00:47:06.000And then you get online and you see all this hateful shit, or you might get on a MAGA forum, and you go, oh, they are eating cats.
00:47:16.000ABC's biased and you could swing it one way or the other and I think they're all trying to manipulate it.
00:47:21.000All these foreign governments and I think internally in the United States, I'm sure there are groups that are doing it too, that are manipulating things in one way or the other in a disingenuous way because it's available.
00:47:35.000I think the only way for you to not personally be really Affected by it is you have to understand that it exists, and then you have to recognize that some of these takes are not even real human beings.
00:47:49.000So instead of saying, Jesus Christ, people would think that way, go, maybe not.
00:47:54.000Maybe there's a few people that think that way, but you're being led to believe that it's a huge movement of people.
00:48:01.000But the problem is when it, even if it's fake, people are so stupid that even if it's a fake thing that becomes a bit of a movement online with fake, dumb people will jump in there and then it'll become a real thing.
00:48:45.000But the thing is, that's how dumb people are.
00:48:47.000That you can have a fake thing and say it enough times, and enough people jump in and be on board with it, and then it becomes a real thing.
00:48:56.000And then you don't even have to, like, use propaganda anymore.
00:49:54.000And people that believe that there's a collusion that's so large that all of the space agencies from Japan, from China, from Russia, all of them are liars.
00:50:06.000That all of them are colluding together to hide the true shape of the Earth, because if we really knew the Earth is flat, then it always is connected to some sort of a Bible thing.
00:50:18.000Like, it's the firmament, and they believe that we're hiding the fact that God is real, and somehow there's some mass conspiracy that all these world governments and every person that ever was involved in the space agencies, they've all hid from us.
00:50:59.000Because it's exactly what you just said about...
00:51:01.000Well, there's a lot of reasons, but...
00:51:03.000The main thing is what you just said about the Earth.
00:51:05.000The vastness of the conspiracy that would be required to fake that, it's so vast that it's a lot more incredible to believe that we faked it than to believe that we just went...
00:51:17.000And going to the moon, it's a massive achievement, but I think the greatest human achievement of all time.
00:51:44.000And for some reason haven't blown the lid on it.
00:51:46.000So they're letting us take this achievement that they know.
00:51:50.000Why haven't the Russians come out and said...
00:51:52.000All those things you're saying are true.
00:51:54.000I don't argue with any of the things you're saying.
00:51:57.000But one of the things that I think you have to consider is...
00:52:00.000If it's not possible for human beings to safely go through the Van Allen radiation belts and out into deep space without much protection and face the temperatures that are on the surface of the moon, which get up to 250 degrees and 250 degrees below zero in the shadows.
00:52:23.000Micrometeorites are flying into the moon all the time.
00:52:26.000They're flying through space all the time.
00:52:28.000We've never had a single biological organism go out into deep space, pass the Van Allen radiation belts, and then come back to Earth and come back alive, except human beings during the Apollo missions.
00:52:40.000Every single space station mission, every single space shuttle mission, All of them are inside 350 miles from the Earth's surface.
00:52:48.000The only time human beings have ever been past that, and through the Van Allen radiation belts, was the Apollo missions.
00:52:55.000And we were the only humans that were ever able to do that.
00:52:58.000The Russians never figured out how to do it.
00:53:00.000No one else figured out how to do it, but the Apollo astronauts.
00:53:03.000And we did it seven times, six successfully, from 1969 to 1972. If you said to me, do you think that they could fake the moon landing today?
00:55:46.000There's lunar reflectors that they placed on the moon, that's another.
00:55:51.000And there's a couple problems with those.
00:55:53.000First of all, the Soviets put laser reflectors on the moon as well.
00:55:59.000And also, the moon itself, in many places where you shine lasers on it, it bounces back by itself.
00:56:05.000The reflective quality of the moon, the reason why the moon is so bright and white in the sky when the sun hits it, you get a certain amount of bounce back off of different things with lasers.
00:56:17.000There's some photographs that are interesting.
00:56:37.000Which one was the moon rock they gave that turned out to be petrified wood?
00:56:41.000So the Apollo astronauts gave a moon rock to some foreign dignitary, and it turned out to be a piece of petrified wood.
00:56:50.000They do have samples of moon rocks that came from the moon, but we also have those on Earth.
00:56:57.000In fact, Wernher von Braun, in 1968, I believe, went to Antarctica.
00:57:02.000There's all these photographs of him in Antarctica.
00:57:04.000Antarctica is a great place to take moon rocks because Antarctica is just this gigantic sheet of white and you can spot the meteorites in the ground.
00:58:21.000Been obsessed about this his whole life and absolutely believes that we never went to the moon.
00:58:24.000And there's enough shit that you go, okay, if he's right about any of these things, it's weird.
00:58:31.000One of the things was some of the photographs of the moon, they ran through one of those AI detectors that can tell you whether or not something's false or artificially generated.
00:58:42.000And it showed different images from, I think it was a Chinese satellite of the moon.
00:59:04.000Again, this is not saying that we didn't go to the moon.
00:59:07.000It could be, and this was a fact with the Gemini 15 program, where Michael Collins, there was a photograph of Michael Collins that they took in one of his training exercises, where he had those packs that they put on where they can move around while they're doing moonwalks Not moonwalks,
00:59:27.000spacewalks, where they're connected by a tether.
00:59:30.000And he was in this harness and manipulating this device.
00:59:34.000And what they had done is taken a photograph of him training, and then someone, probably some overzealous PR person, had taken that photograph and then blacked out the background and tried to pass it off as a really clear photograph of him training.
00:59:52.000Out there on a spacewalk, which is probably very difficult to get, right?
00:59:55.000You'd have to have another person at the camera frame it right.
01:01:14.000Well, there's actually a psychological condition that they talk about, this sort of understanding that we're all connected.
01:01:20.000It's akin to a religious experience that many astronauts get when they go up to the space station and look down at the Earth and go, oh my God, what are we doing?
01:01:28.000We're all together in this thing, and we're so alone in the universe.
01:01:31.000And for us to be fighting over these trivial differences and these stupid lines in the dirt that we draw, when we are just clinging to this ball in the middle of everything.
01:01:41.000So then what would you say, or someone who is a full-on believer...
01:03:44.000But if we're going to assert that a major historical event, probably the greatest, the most significant historical event in history over one of them, did not happen at all, no one did it, then, like I said, that's...
01:03:57.000So what you're actually claiming is that some other thing, this...
01:04:00.000They went somewhere and they pulled off this hoax and they planned it and they did...
01:04:04.000Like an event happened where they were faking it.
01:04:10.000Has anybody come out, any whistleblower, ever to say, hey, I was involved in the shoot, or I'm in Hollywood, I talked to a guy who was there?
01:05:06.000Can we really send a biological entity into space, go through that radiation, which is thick, covering the earth, and have it come back alive?
01:05:19.000This is the only time people had done it and supposedly the way they did it was by going through the top area of the earth where the Van Allen radiation belts, it's kind of like a donut that covers the earth.
01:05:32.000It's not uniform and there's an area at the top where you can go out.
01:05:37.000But according to Bart Sabrell, they didn't go that way, because he would have had to launch from Antarctica to do that.
01:05:42.000It's not really possible that that happened, that they went that way.
01:05:44.000So he thinks that if they did go through that, there is no other examples of living things that have done that and come back alive.
01:05:56.000And they've known that this is an issue.
01:05:57.000They've known that this Van Allen radiation belts, which is this band of heavy radiation that covers the earth and protects us.
01:06:05.000They've known that it's out there because they tried to blow it up once.
01:06:08.000There was a thing called Operation Starfish Prime where they launched one of several nuclear bombs into the radiation belt to try to blow a hole through it.
01:06:35.000And, you know, you've got nuclear bombs, and you can't blow people up, but you're still doing studies.
01:06:39.000So they're doing tests all throughout Nevada.
01:06:41.000I mean, that's what killed John Wayne.
01:06:43.000John Wayne got cancer because he was working on a set doing a Western.
01:06:47.000Right next to where they were blowing up nuclear bombs.
01:06:50.000Like 200 people on the set got cancer.
01:06:53.000Starfish Prime high altitude nuclear test conducted by the United States, a joint effort of the Atomic Energy Commission and the Defense Atomic Support Agency, July 9th, 1962. So this is like while Kennedy was in office.
01:07:06.000They were trying to figure out how we will get to the moon, not in this decade, but in the other, or whatever he said.
01:09:05.000I think we should care about that, but most people don't care about...
01:09:10.000If we found out that we didn't have to dig for lithium, that we could just go to the moon and pull giant chunks of it out and not have slave labor and no one has to feel bad about using your iPhone, you don't think that they would do that?
01:09:25.000Of course they would do that, if they could.
01:09:26.000If you could have a mining station on the moon, no problem at all, totally safe, of course they would do that.
01:10:15.000Phones are in your fucking pocket now, and they have more computing power than the entire cluster that they used to launch the Apollo program.
01:10:23.000The Apollo program was a fucking giant room full of computers.
01:10:39.000There was a stupid show called Space 1999, and they thought, boy, by 1999, we'll be flying around spaceships and people will be living on the moon.
01:10:46.000Every time they've done, like in the past, like after the moon landings, every time they did...
01:10:52.000Any sort of like science fiction movie.
01:10:54.000It always involved like colonies already established on the moon and on Mars and people traveling.
01:11:00.000Because we thought that was going to happen.
01:11:28.000But then now you have supersonic jets like 100 years later.
01:11:31.000Now you have insane capabilities of like Air Force fighter jets.
01:11:36.000Unbelievable power and maneuverability far beyond anything anybody would have possibly imagined when Orville and Wilbur had that stupid fucking bird-looking flimsy thing.
01:12:17.000Especially if you take a historical perspective, a longer-term historical perspective, it just takes a while to get from one thing to the next.
01:12:34.000The next thing is to go to Mars, most people agree.
01:12:38.000That's so much far, exponentially farther away and harder to do.
01:12:42.000And so if that takes, if it takes decades more to figure out how to do that, that doesn't seem that crazy to me.
01:12:48.000And the second thing I'll say is that I do think, I get your point about resources on the moon, there's a reason to go back.
01:12:54.000I agree, you know, Practically speaking.
01:12:57.000But it's just true that it requires a society that deeply values exploration for its own sake and is willing to make the sacrifices, is willing to send people off to do things just for the sake of exploration,
01:14:01.000It wasn't, but unfortunately, but politicians are the ones who decided.
01:14:04.000People vote for those politicians, and unfortunately, there are a lot of Americans who are basically okay with sending money to Ukraine, which they shouldn't be.
01:14:11.000I agree with you, but what my point is, is that if you had a skillful politician who got on television and explained that we have found a solution to all of our energy problems, and it's mining on the moon, and through this mining on the moon, we are going to increase the overall Way of life for every single human being on on America's soil.
01:14:34.000We are going to raise everybody above the poverty level.
01:14:37.000There'll be no impoverished people because we have literally found trillions of dollars in very very valuable minerals and by using our United States taxpayers funds to Fund this program and to finance it.
01:14:52.000We are going to allow the entire country to share in some of this wealth, and we're going to change energy distribution and consumption in this country in an incredible way.
01:15:02.000It's going to be beneficial to everybody, and it's going to make a bunch of people really rich, too.
01:15:05.000But it's going to change the quality of life for every person in this country, and this is how we're going to do it.
01:15:12.000Yeah, but nobody's made that case, really.
01:15:14.000Right, but you could make that case with the amount of minerals and the amount of valuable resources you can get, not just from the moon, but also from mining asteroids, which they're attempting to do now.
01:15:24.000If you can get people out there, if you really can get people out there...
01:15:30.000If you couldn't do it, if they knew they couldn't do it, but they wanted to show that they could do it, could they Compartmentalize things.
01:15:39.000Could they feed a computer program that is, instead of the actual binary data that shows the distance between the lunar module and the surface of the Earth at any given time, could they just calculate that out with computers?
01:15:54.000Could they, if they couldn't get human beings into deep space and have them come back alive because they couldn't figure out a way to get through the Van Allen radiation belts and survive micrometeors and all the other shit that you deal with, could they Get enough people to shut the fuck up because it's in the best interest of national security.
01:16:10.000Of course they could, especially in 1969. People were fucking terrified.
01:16:15.000They had just killed the president six years earlier.
01:16:17.000People were absolutely terrified of getting Under the sites of the intelligence agencies, and if you have top-secret clearance, if you're involved in some sort of a project, look at the Manhattan Project.
01:17:07.000Sybil, the guy who made this documentary, he asserts that they went somewhere into Earth's orbit, like, you know, in space, but not through the Van Allen radiation belts and not to the surface of the moon and back.
01:17:20.000And that they had video footage that they had done in some scenario.
01:17:27.000Some people think it's in the Nevada desert.
01:17:30.000But they had this footage of people bouncing around and they said they got it on the moon and then they brought this back.
01:17:36.000Does he have any evidence of that event occurring?
01:17:41.000Would he say, well, I know they only went so far and came back because of this?
01:17:46.000Well, he has a bunch of different things, and one of them is the one that's very hotly debated, and it's the different light sources in the photographs.
01:17:56.000So a lot of the photographs from the surface of the moon have intersecting shadows.
01:18:01.000So you have a shadow that's going this way and another shadow that's going that way, indicating more than one Light source or a close-by light source that's you know coming in not something that's you know thousands millions of miles away like the like the Sun There's those there's the photographs there's the photographs that run through AI he has this other video of what looks like them filming the earth through one of the round portal windows with everything blacked out in the cabin and And then they pull down the things that were blocking
01:18:31.000off the other light sources and the cabin floods with light and it looks like they're in near-Earth orbit.
01:18:42.000Because if they really are in deep space and they really are filming this small image of the Earth because that's all they can see from 200,000 miles out...
01:18:52.000Well, why, when they take those things down, does it look like the whole cabin is filled with light?
01:18:58.000Why does it look exactly like they're in near-Earth orbit?
01:19:42.000This is a fun one because you're dealing with the kind of power with complete control over the media, complete control over newspapers and what they reported, the interest of national security, the Cold War with Russia, the space war with Russia.
01:19:59.000We wanted it so bad, we brought in some of the most heinous human beings that have ever lived to run our NASA program.
01:21:06.000Which I can understand that mentality.
01:21:09.000But the thing is, you can go back in history...
01:21:12.000And you can look at, for the sake of discovery and exploration, you can look at what other men have done hundreds of years ago that arguably is more impressive than going to the moon.
01:21:27.000Take any famous explorer from the 1500s to the 1800s, and whether it's Magellan or James Cook or Christopher Columbus or any of them, What they were able to do, navigating this vast ocean,
01:21:44.000going to places, having no modern technology at all, being able to go from where their starting point hit some little tiny island somewhere and then go around and navigating a world that they don't even know what it looks like.
01:22:02.000I don't know how in the world, not knowing what the world looks like, having no map, having no GPS, having no modern navigation whatsoever, how in the world could you possibly get on a ship launching out of France or Portugal or wherever and make it anywhere across the ocean?
01:22:53.000But it also took centuries to get to the point where it could be easily recreated.
01:22:56.000But it got better right after each one did it because they had maps now.
01:23:00.000And then they also used their sextants and they understood constellations in a way that most people don't today.
01:23:06.000And sextants, if you actually use them correctly and you understand which way the tides go and which way the water currents are going, Which way the flow is happening?
01:23:16.000They had a deep understanding of the currents of the Earth.
01:23:18.000They knew travel lanes, and they knew which ways they could go with ships.
01:23:24.000So applying that to the open ocean, applying that to these continents they weren't even sure were there, was very iffy, very dangerous, very courageous.
01:23:34.000But once they did it, Then everybody else could do it easier.
01:23:37.000And then they started doing it better and better, and then people started coming to America, and then ba-ba-ba-ba-ba, and now here we are.
01:23:43.000Anybody with enough resources can have a boat that can travel those routes.
01:23:48.000No one can just say, I want to go to the moon today and get their private moon craft and fucking shoot off into the atmosphere and land on the moon.
01:23:58.000So, no one's done that since 1969. That's a recent occurrence in terms of like human history, but not technologically.
01:24:07.000The technology from 1969 is not even, it's like cave people shit compared to what we have today.
01:24:12.000So you really can't compare The courageous, amazing deeds of these early explorers.
01:24:19.000Because what they did was absolutely fantastic.
01:24:21.000But they left a clear record of how to do it, and then each person improved upon it, and now it's easy to do.
01:25:29.000He and I will watch it with the sound on and we'll tell everybody else to just go to the website or go to the YouTube video so we don't get pulled off of YouTube.
01:25:38.000We'll watch it and we won't say anything and then after it's over we'll come back.
01:25:42.000So play it because I want them to hear it.
01:26:41.000If they want to sell you something on late night TV, they use an English accent because it makes someone look more intelligent, more sophisticated.
01:28:53.000It would require a lot of people to be on board.
01:28:55.000But I also think it could be compartmentalized.
01:28:58.000The people that make the rockets, what you're doing is you're making a specific part and this guy's making another part and you have the engineers put this thing together and you launch this thing into space.
01:29:09.000The people that would have to know are the people that are actually charting the trajectory You could.
01:30:00.000They're just kind of like fanciful, whatever, projections.
01:30:07.000And the ones that I don't find convincing are where they usually start with, There's a so-called official narrative of a thing that happened.
01:30:17.000There's a couple of things about what actually happened that are kind of weird.
01:30:22.000And we look at that and go, that's a little bit weird.
01:30:24.000And then the conspiracy theorists in that case, they come in and they find these little tiny cracks, if you want to call it.
01:30:31.000And then inside the cracks, they shove this whole, like...
01:30:35.000Hollywood cinematic narrative that they have created to explain what's actually like a pretty tiny crack.
01:30:41.000You don't need this whole thing to explain that.
01:30:44.000So with the moon thing, I mean, one of the first weird aspects of the moon landing that I think started kind of the conspiracy theories about it was the flag, the fact that the flag's moving in the picture.
01:30:58.000And so, yeah, it's like when you look at that, you don't really understand.
01:31:01.000Well, that is weird because there's no wind on the moon.
01:31:03.000But then you understand that, okay, for example, when you put the flag down, it creates reverberations.
01:32:05.000But if they can't really do that, and they never have done that, and the only time they say they've done that is these missions, it gets real weird.
01:32:12.000And since they haven't done it since then, it gets real weird.
01:32:26.000There's a lot of weirdness to the footage.
01:32:28.000The physics don't line up exactly the same.
01:32:31.000If you go to the early days of the Apollo 11 footage and you look at the difference between when they were playing golf and jumping around the moon, they move different.
01:32:52.000Maybe they actually did do it, but the cameras weren't able to handle the radiation and the film, which, you know, you wouldn't even be able to send your film through the radar detector at the airport back then, because it would get fucked up.
01:33:04.000Maybe the radiation space fucks up the film, so even though they did do it, they show you recreations or show you these test runs that they did, and they film it because the actual film footage is impossible to obtain.
01:34:57.000So that might not have actually happened on the moon, okay?
01:35:00.000That might be footage that they filmed in the Nevada desert, and the footage they got on the moon got all fucked up, and so they tried to pass that off on people, and they thought no one would know.
01:35:08.000It doesn't necessarily mean we didn't go to the moon, but that does look weird.
01:35:48.000That's how they got that footage of them inside the craft filming through that circular hole.
01:35:52.000Because they don't air everything on television, but you have archives.
01:35:55.000So you have all these archives and these kooks go through the archives and they find things like that.
01:36:00.000Okay, but that doesn't even mean that that was actual moon footage.
01:36:04.000That could have been some of the training footage.
01:36:06.000I'll tell you what would convince me to, not that it's a fake, but at least would make me open to it.
01:36:12.000One thing that would shake my faith considerably in the moon landing, if Elon Musk were to come out and say, yeah, I don't know about this moon landing thing.
01:36:23.000And I'm not saying this is my whole reason for believing it happened, but Elon Musk, first of all, if the moon landing was fake, he knows it was.
01:36:48.000I'll be the first one to go to the moon because they faked it.
01:36:51.000And he hasn't said that, so I also find that to be pretty compelling, the fact that he, as someone who wouldn't know, the problem is that you and I, most people that talk about this, we have no direct access to knowledge about space.
01:37:04.000This is all being given to us by other people.
01:37:07.000So you've got to go to people that are actually working with this stuff.
01:37:11.000And so the fact that he has no time for this theory at all, I also find to be...
01:37:21.000But also, he has a contract with NASA, and he has to be very careful about what he says and does, and for him to say something incredibly insane, like we never went to the moon, even if he believes it.
01:37:31.000That would be a big risk with zero reward, because there's no way to prove, as you've said, there's no way to prove that we didn't go to the moon.
01:37:39.000And to say that we didn't go to the moon is a kook take.
01:37:45.000You can say stupid things like that when you're a comedian who's a podcast host.
01:37:49.000But if you have contracts with NASA and you run SpaceX and you are legitimately making some of the greatest breakthroughs in space travel that human beings have ever known, like what they're doing with those falcons when they have them land, fucking insane.
01:38:08.000I mean, if he really is going to get people to Mars, something has got to be addressed eventually as to, you know, if they do it and they pull it off and it's easy and comfortable, okay, we probably did it in 1969. If they go to the moon and there's no problem going through the Van Allen radiation belts with no particular insulation other than what the spaceship had,
01:40:08.000It's akin to turning Kamala Harris into the most compelling presidential candidate since Barack Obama.
01:40:14.000Like, there's things that they can do with propaganda and spin that are truly amazing.
01:40:18.000And watching her become this, like, celebrated character when just a few months ago everybody was upset that she was on the ticket and, oh my god, if Joe Biden dies and she becomes president, people are freaking out.
01:40:29.000Now all of a sudden everybody's like, yes, she should be president.
01:43:20.000We do not know whether Mrs. Harris wore one of our products.
01:43:24.000The resemblance is striking, and while our product is not specifically developed for the use at presidential debates, it is nonetheless suited for it.
01:43:35.000To ensure a level playing field for both candidates, we are currently developing a male version and will soon be able to offer it to the Trump campaign.
01:43:42.000The choice of color is a bit challenging, though, as orange does not go well with a lot of colors.
01:46:35.000I mean, they are full of shit, but also it would not shock me if, because we're so easily distracted, if people really did just forget and don't care a week later, two weeks later.
01:46:46.000Well, as long as it's not in the news, and it's not in the news, you don't care about it.
01:46:49.000Also, there was no press conference, so that's kind of crazy.
01:46:54.000There was no disclosure of all the information about this young man's prior history, what led him to this.
01:47:01.000They went to his apartment, and it was professionally scrubbed.
01:48:30.000Not only that, think about how perfect it would have been for a plan to assassinate someone if you do get this lone, crazy kid You give him whatever, I mean, there's been no toxicology examination of his body that's been released, right?
01:48:43.000So who knows what the fuck this kid's on?
01:48:45.000If you're gonna try to convince someone to go shoot the former president, you'd probably dope him up with some crazy shit, right?
01:48:51.000And then that would be in his system, and then it would be like, be able to trace, okay, how do you get this?
01:48:57.000Let's talk to all the people that are on his cell phone, all the people that are in his email, let's investigate and find out where the fuck he got this stuff that he's on when he shoots at the president.
01:49:07.000So this guy, somehow or another, figures out how to get on the roof, take these shots, and then they kill him.
01:49:15.000Now, if he shot and hit Trump, if Trump didn't turn his head at that pivotal moment where they talk about it, and it's a headshot, Trump is dead, the world's in chaos, and this kid's dead seconds later.
01:50:35.000And the fact that it went away is even more insane.
01:50:37.000And the fact that there was a brief moment where even Biden was saying that we have to stop being so polarized and stop attacking each other and just try to help this country heal.
01:50:46.000And then, eh, a week later, fuck that guy.
01:51:13.000Even at the Republican convention, I just felt like the fact that this guy was almost killed two days ago should be like the centerpiece of this thing.
01:51:22.000I mean, you've got all the cameras on you for four days.
01:51:25.000And so everything you were planning for the convention should change now because of this.
01:51:30.000And it should take on an extra seriousness and just the whole tone should change.
01:51:36.000Because of this incredible historic event, fist up, fight, fight, the whole thing.
01:51:41.000And, I don't know, they just went to the Republican convention and they started parading around the normal, you know, they had their celebrity.
01:51:49.000They've got Instagram influencers and they've got, you know, they've got MAGA rappers from YouTube and it's just like, you're not, you're...
01:51:56.000You are not showing us how serious this thing is, and so I think that was a mistake.
01:52:02.000Well, I think you only want to address it once, and it's probably...
01:52:04.000Look, he's got a great ability to push things aside, and it's one of the reasons why he didn't age like everybody else ages when they get into the White House.
01:52:20.000And I think he's got this ability because so many people have hated him for so long and he gets attacked so often, he knows how to just shut it off and shut it out.
01:52:28.000And I think he probably did that with the assassination attempt too.
01:52:30.000It's one of the reasons why he said, I'm going to talk about it once and I'm not going to talk about it again.
01:52:34.000And he's basically held to that, other than briefly mentioning it, that he thinks he got shot in the head because of the way they talk about him, which I would agree.
01:52:43.000I mean, we've watched that footage right before the podcast of Trump on the Colbert show that apparently never aired.
01:52:52.000But Jamie says you can get it on Colbert's website.
01:52:57.000No, no, no, but it's just saying that it never aired.
01:54:06.000But everybody thought he was a joke back then.
01:54:08.000Yeah, I think it was that they were happy that he ran, and they wanted him to win the nomination because they thought that he easily beat him.
01:54:17.000So this really is a Frankenstein kind of story from their perspective, because they look at him as a monster, this monstrous figure.
01:54:54.000It's like they're projecting because they realize that they did this and they just can't get over it, I think.
01:55:02.000Well, there's definitely this overcorrection.
01:55:04.000You know, Robert Epstein talked about that.
01:55:07.000You know, Robert Epstein has done all that work on Google and these ephemeral instances of interacting with Google where it shows you with search results and with news stories that get brought to your feed that they're temporary.
01:55:23.000And what he has found through his research is that, especially with people that are on the fence, Like people that are 50-50, you could swing 50-50 to 90-10.
01:55:35.000Like people that don't know who they're going to vote for, you could make it 90-10 just through these interactions with Google.
01:55:45.00090-10, like say if you want Hillary to win or you want Trump to win, whatever candidate you choose, if you manipulate the search results, if you manipulate just the fill-in, you know, the suggestions, is Matt Walsh A, and then it just fills it in.
01:56:01.000Just through that, just through the suggestions, they can manipulate it to a significant difference for people that are on the fence, that are independents or that are undecided.
01:56:10.000And he said you can take 50-50 and turn it to 90-10, which is fucking stunning.
01:56:19.000And one of the things that happened was after Trump won in 2016, there was some sort of a meeting at Google where they were openly talking about this.
01:56:28.000And they were talking about, we can't let this happen again, which is such a crazy thing to say, that we can't let the people decide who they want to be president again.
01:56:38.000If that is what they said, if that is what they, and let's find out what the actual quote was.
01:56:44.000I could see how someone would say that if they worked at an insurance company and they're a pro, you know, a diehard Democrat, blue no matter who, and they were like, we can't let this happen again.
01:56:55.000I could see how you say that if you're just an individual voter who doesn't really have an impact.
01:56:59.000But if you're someone who can shift undecided voters from 50-50 to 90-10, as Robert Epstein is alleging, if that's true, That's a crazy thing to say.
01:57:10.000Because you're deciding you're going to decide the result of the election.
01:57:15.000And you don't give a fuck about debate and free speech and people being able to decide for themselves because you think that you're right.
01:57:22.000And you think everybody else should agree with you.
01:57:25.000You also think that you are or you've told yourself that you are the the vanguard Protecting democracy and our way of life.
01:58:29.000It's weird that you can get people to just ideologically be captured and join this team and lose all ability to look at things objectively and just understand nuance and understand the influence of propaganda and, like, how many people are spending money on this?
01:58:44.000Why does all the news have this one specific narrative?
01:58:48.000And then Fox News is a totally different...
01:58:53.000And not only can you get them to, obviously they hate Trump, but to also demonize, you know, half of the country's population.
01:59:04.000I mean, there was just, I think it was MSNBC yesterday, one of these pundits was talking about Trump and said, well, he's despicable, he's terrible, but his supporters are too.
01:59:59.000And I don't mind, because you can go back farther in American history and you can find, like back to the beginning, and they're in Congress beating each other over the head with Sure.
02:00:28.000There have been multiple cases recently of congressional hearings where they start screaming at each other.
02:00:34.000Marjorie Taylor Greene and AOC. And who's the other one?
02:02:52.000One of the things that's always interesting to me is that they are so desperate to stop Trump and that they act like it's, you know, the future of the planet hangs in the balance.
02:03:08.000I mean, they own all the institutions, Google, you know, the federal government.
02:03:12.000So the truth is that Trump could get into office We're good to go.
02:03:36.000That's the problem, is that even when Trump gets in there, he's handicapped in his ability to do anything because the entire federal government, he might be at the top of it, but everybody underneath him despises him, and they're all leftists.
02:03:52.000They could just reverse it the second that he leaves.
02:03:55.000And yet they still act like if he's in there, it's the end of the world.
02:04:04.000It still won't matter because we're still going to be in charge of everything.
02:04:07.000Did you see the conversation where this woman was talking to someone from Trump's team, saying worried that he was going to weaponize the judicial system once he got into office, that if he got into office,
02:04:23.000he would weaponize the judicial system and go after his enemies?
02:04:31.000For you saying that and asking whether or not Trump would do that, You have to acknowledge the fact that that's absolutely happening to him right now.
02:04:41.000And then she tries to push back against it and he does a brilliant job of explaining how she's incorrect.
02:04:47.000I'm going to find this, Jamie, because this is a good one.
02:06:56.000It's like, because they can say something, and it can be not true, but yet enough people repeat it, and then it just becomes a narrative that everyone just...
02:07:05.000I mean, like, it's true that he's a convicted felon now, but is it true that it makes any sense?
02:07:46.000I hate when I save something and I don't know where I put it, but I know I do.
02:07:50.000And the funny thing, these are also people who otherwise would say that the court system is entirely corrupt, that just because you're a convicted felon, it really doesn't mean anything at all, necessarily.
02:08:54.000And that might actually happen if he doesn't become president.
02:08:57.000If he doesn't become president, they might actually lock him up for 25 years for that, which is essentially the rest of his life will be behind bars at Rikers.
02:09:20.000Maybe it's naive of me to think, but would they do that, or would they rather just, he loses, Kamala wins, and then they'd want Trump to just fade into obscurity and never talk about him again?
02:10:16.000If Kamala wins and then they really go after Trump and try to put him in jail, and if they actually do put him in jail, I don't see how it helps them politically.
02:10:23.000I think that's just going to radicalize people on the right even more than they already are.
02:10:27.000It will radicalize people on the right.
02:10:34.000So it doesn't help them politically, but I think he has to pay the price for defying them for so many years.
02:10:41.000But if he does get in office, then it gets very interesting.
02:10:44.000Because then it's like, what can he do now?
02:10:46.000Like, how much different is his take on it now?
02:10:49.000Because one of the things that he said is the first time he got in, he didn't know anything about governing.
02:10:53.000He's like, I had to find people, and I picked some of the wrong people, but I know better now, and I could do a better job of it now, which kind of makes sense.
02:11:01.000Because if I wanted to talk to him, one of the things I really want to ask is, what is it like?
02:11:06.000When you actually get in there, they don't think you're going to be in there, and now all of a sudden you're the actual president.
02:11:26.000Because we all have this sort of mystical view of what it's like to be the actual president, but very few people and only one ever that's not a part of the system has ever snuck through and attained that position.
02:11:39.000Yeah, I'd be interested to hear his answer to that.
02:11:41.000It wouldn't surprise me if, in a weird way, when you become president, you You feel very powerless once you're sitting there because you realize that you're overseeing this gigantic mammoth thing that's just so unwieldy.
02:13:42.000What's also going to be very interesting to see, what do they do to try to prevent this from happening in the future?
02:13:49.000Because one of the things that has been discussed is cracking down on misinformation, and that free speech doesn't include misinformation, which is a wild thing to say after what we just went through with COVID, where what people were saying was misinformation turned out to be 100% true.
02:14:04.000And not just about COVID, but about a bunch of things.
02:14:40.000To have that big filter through the government is an insane position.
02:14:46.000And yet, that's something that they talk about, and this is something, bizarrely, that the left supports.
02:14:52.000Well, even if, because even if it is misinformation, most of the stuff they call misinformation isn't, but in the case when there's something that is misinformation, it's just not true, plenty of that goes around the internet, that's still free speech, too.
02:15:03.000You have the right to say things that are not, as long as you're not slandering somebody, You have the right to make claims about the world that don't happen to be true.
02:15:11.000So the idea that that doesn't qualify as free speech is, of course, absurd.
02:15:16.000But then that also requires some central authority to be the arbiter of what is true and what is not.
02:15:28.000Because one of the only ways that people find out if something is correct or not is let someone say something that's incorrect and then someone who knows a lot more comes along and corrects them.
02:15:48.000And Eric Weinstein, who's a genius, like a legitimate genius and a mathematician, explained him, like, very patiently and carefully, this is why you're wrong, and this is what you need to know, and you've got some good ideas, but you're off on all these different things.
02:16:43.000And everybody who listens to that has a better understanding of all these different really weird complex things that they're discussing that maybe otherwise you would never have illuminated in that way.
02:16:54.000You would never really be able to understand it.
02:16:56.000That's why I think the free speech thing is people act like it's a complicated...
02:17:54.000There are going to be people that say a bunch of things that aren't true.
02:17:57.000But the way to combat that is not put the government in charge of what's true, especially when they've been wronged so many times, or they just out and out lied so many times.
02:18:06.000That's a crazy position for the left to take, the ones who are supposed to be the party of science and reason, and the ones who are supposed to be the most educated.
02:18:13.000It's just a bizarre perspective just because you don't want Trump to win.
02:19:33.000And it implies that all hatred is automatically bad, or at least it puts the people in power in a position where they can decide what kind of things you're allowed to hate and what you're not.
02:21:01.000It's like, you know, you punch a hole through a cloud.
02:21:04.000And a lot of times when they say that the rocket malfunction or something is actually doing exactly what it was supposed to do, this is a test run or whatever.
02:21:11.000Yeah, they have to test tolerances and parameters.
02:21:13.000I mean, they have a lot of them blow up.
02:21:15.000That's what you have to do until you get one that doesn't blow up.
02:21:36.000Of course, social media gives a platform for people who are not doing anything at all to just sit and snicker at the few people in the world who are trying to achieve something.
02:22:15.000You have a better understanding of human behavior.
02:22:18.000You have a better understanding that people are capable of, you know, being really interesting, intelligent people, but also being buffoons at the same time.
02:22:27.000And that, you know, we're all subject to all these various influences.
02:22:31.000And especially through the use of social media, which just, like I said before, it's an anxiety-creating machine.
02:22:37.000And there's so many of these people that are attached to it that are so deeply rooted in these online conversations and so disconnected from the natural world.
02:22:48.000They're there for an education, an understanding, a greater understanding of the weird nuances of human thinking.
02:22:56.000Because that's genuinely what this whole thing is all about.
02:22:59.000All the ideologies and all the, you know, left and the right and the immigrants are great and immigrants are terrible and they're eating ducks.
02:23:05.000All of it is just human thinking, trying to figure out what's the correct and incorrect way that we all cohabitate and what's the best way for all of us to sort of get along.
02:23:16.000I mean, that's the catch-22 of social media because it could be...
02:23:19.000If you use it exactly the right way, it does give you access to all these human beings and the way that they're thinking about things, which can be quite enlightening.
02:23:31.000But most people don't use it the right way.
02:23:57.000They should learn how to navigate it, too.
02:23:58.000I think it is very addictive, but also there's people that know how to walk away from it and know how to self-regulate, and I think that's a valuable skill that I think everyone's going to have to learn.
02:24:21.000We haven't given them the tools to understand how to use this stuff, like the emotional and intellectual tools.
02:24:28.000So you've got to introduce it at some point, but...
02:24:32.000Most kids today, I don't know what the latest figure is, but millions of kids today have smartphones by the time they're like 8 or 9 years old.
02:24:39.000A lot of my kids with friends when they come over are 8, 9, 10 years old and they've got phones.
02:24:44.000I just think it's like, it can only harm them.
02:25:13.000We don't even know what the kids of today who are on the internet who are subject to the same sort of horrific images that you and I are talking about earlier.
02:25:21.000What is that doing to people long term?
02:25:23.000I never got exposed to anything like that when I was seven.
02:25:26.000How many kids are getting exposed to murder videos when they're 10 years old?
02:26:12.000I mean, the kind of thing you're being exposed to, how often you're being exposed to it, how ubiquitous it is now, how readily available it is, it's not at all the same.
02:26:20.000Well, you know, we had the guys on from that Chimp Crazy show.
02:26:24.000You know that new show on HBO where the people have pet chimps?
02:26:40.000They get addicted to pornography and they watch it all the time.
02:26:43.000Like these certain chimps that get older, they give them iPads, they give them phones, and they show them, you know, they get on the internet.
02:26:50.000And if someone shows them pornography, they get addicted to pornography.
02:27:16.000And our kids, they don't have tablets and all that stuff, but if we go on a long car trip, it's the one time we make an exception.
02:27:22.000If we're going on a 20-hour car trip, just for our own sanity, we'll let them have tablets in the car, just with games and books and stuff.
02:27:59.000And the addictions to phones, which we all have, then the addictions to social media, which a lot of people have, and then you get these weird insulated groups that live in echo chambers, and that's, I think, one of the things you highlight the most about this show,
02:28:17.000this Am I Racist film that you made, is the struggle sessions, where these people all get...
02:28:38.000Like, what is going on in your life that you've been exposed to this version of the world that seems so ridiculous to someone who's not in that bubble?
02:28:59.000And that in particular is like a support group for white people who are struggling with their white grief because they have privilege and they're grieving their whiteness and their privilege.
02:29:10.000And there's this woman, Bershia Wade, I think his name is.
02:29:29.000That was like an hour and a half, two hours in the room in real time.
02:29:32.000When did they start figuring out who you were?
02:29:38.000At some point, midway through, they started looking at me strange because I was intentionally making it really awkward just because it was funny.
02:29:48.000But then, as you can see in the movie, I get emotional because I'm on my own journey of self-discovery.
02:29:53.000And I had to leave because there's one rule that all these people have.
02:33:21.000That was, for me, making the movie the most shocking thing to me that happened, that really took me back, was in that moment and the way they responded to it, which I was not expecting.
02:33:39.000It's a great movie, man, and it's just like what is a woman in sort of the same vein of just it almost feels like satire, but you realize it's not.
02:34:55.000With both movies, the whole point is to create an environment where the other person feels comfortable saying what they actually think and what they really believe and doing what they would really do And that means not react because if you laugh at them,
02:38:51.000And I think it's a great way to expose how ridiculous some of this shit is.
02:38:57.000You can expose it by being angry and yelling and arguing with people on Twitter, but to do it the way you did it and just make it a hilarious hour and a half movie is really good.