The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2210 - Calley Means & Casey Means, MD

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 What's up?

00:00:13.000 Nice to meet you guys.

00:00:14.000 Thanks for having us, Joe.

00:00:15.000 Thanks for coming here.

00:00:16.000 I'm all happy, but this is not a happy subject.

00:00:18.000 I don't know. 0.99

00:00:19.000 It's probably a bad way to start off a podcast of how fucked we are. 0.90

00:00:23.000 But I really appreciate what you guys have been doing. 0.94

00:00:27.000 I think I first saw you on Tucker and the details of all the stuff you guys have exposed.

00:00:35.000 It's shocking, but it's not surprising.

00:00:40.000 It's really crazy.

00:00:41.000 So can we get into this?

00:00:42.000 You used to be on the dark side.

00:00:43.000 Let's start with you.

00:00:46.000 Tell everybody your background, like how you got started with this.

00:00:50.000 We were born and raised in Washington, D.C. And I thought being a good young conservative was supporting the pharma industry, supporting the food industry, defending those industries.

00:00:58.000 So I went to Stanford with Casey.

00:00:59.000 She studied biology.

00:01:01.000 I studied political science and economics and went on campaigns, but then was a lobbyist.

00:01:04.000 Everyone bipartisan in D.C. goes to work for the food and the pharma industry.

00:01:09.000 And on one morning, I'm working with the farm industry to literally steer money to the dean of Stanford Med School, who's a pain specialist, to be put on an NIH panel to say that opioids in 2011, that the issues around addiction were overblown.

00:01:23.000 And we actually helped engineer an NIH panel to issue a report to say, opioids are okay, pain is a crisis.

00:01:31.000 And then later in the afternoon, working for food companies, working for Coke, Steering money to institutions of trust, steering money to the NAACP to say that taking Coke off food stamps was racist.

00:01:42.000 Coke soda today, to this day, is the number one item on food stamps.

00:01:46.000 What I realized fundamentally is that we're profiting.

00:01:50.000 The biggest industries, the biggest spenders in the country are profiting from kids, particularly getting addicted, sick, in fear, and then drugging them and profiting from that.

00:01:57.000 What is the conversation like when you guys are formulating a strategy to try to pretend that opioids aren't a problem?

00:02:06.000 What are the conversations like?

00:02:08.000 This is really important for people to understand.

00:02:10.000 The institutional design of the system, which was greatly impacted by Casey's awakening, is that it takes good people and gives them plausible deniability.

00:02:19.000 Nobody's in those back rooms conspiring and trying to be an evil person.

00:02:22.000 They're literally talking to these junior staffers like me about the scourge of pain.

00:02:27.000 You know, and how we have to get this innovation of opioids to the American people.

00:02:31.000 Now it's about obesity and trying to get Ozempic to 60 year olds, which is now the standard of care.

00:02:37.000 In the rooms, it's about doing what's right and getting this innovation to the American people and everyone can kind of fool themselves.

00:02:59.000 I think?

00:03:03.000 There's pings that's coming through in so many ways of people realizing this really isn't going the right direction.

00:03:10.000 I think you see it with suicide rate among doctors, the burnout rate among doctors, the fact that every friend I have from Harvard Business School who went into the pharma industry, who went into the food industry, there's chronic rates of depression among elite business people.

00:03:24.000 I think people are starting to realize this, but still, in these rooms, it's about doing the right thing.

00:03:30.000 You convince yourself of that.

00:03:31.000 Wow.

00:03:32.000 So it's just everyone's sort of captured by this thing and nobody steps out of the lines.

00:03:37.000 I mean, the highest level, Joe, you know, I think we don't realize that there's a defining existential issue in our country where our major institutions have been captured.

00:03:47.000 I think there's like pings of consciousness trying to alert us to this, like, you know, you having people on that are calling this stuff out, trying to ring the alarm bell and people flocking to this show.

00:03:58.000 Iconoclasts from the military industrial complex, from the healthcare industrial complex.

00:04:03.000 I think Elon being the richest person, the world's trying to sell us something.

00:04:06.000 It's like, let's get resources to these people calling these things out.

00:04:09.000 I think it's like Donald Trump.

00:04:11.000 Like, I've been thinking about this a lot.

00:04:12.000 Why is he the defining figure of our lifetime?

00:04:15.000 Like, why have voters again and again and again gone to him and said, you know, this MAGA movement?

00:04:20.000 Why are we, like, supporting this person, making him the defining person of our generation?

00:04:24.000 What does he represent?

00:04:25.000 He represents, like, putting finger on something that's just not quite right with institutions.

00:04:29.000 And I think the problem is we can't quite wrap our head around how bad it is and how so many people are complicit.

00:04:35.000 But there's all these signs right now, and I think we're going to be brought to our knees if we don't realize this, that our institutions have been captured.

00:04:42.000 Like, to me, healthcare, what Casey talks about, It's a really visceral example of something just not right with what's happening to food, what's happening to our kids' health.

00:04:51.000 And I think it's happening to the military, too, or the military-industrial complex.

00:04:54.000 Like, I'm truly worried that we're on the verge of almost a societal-level collapse with what's happening to our food, what's happening to our health, what's happening with the potential nuclear war.

00:05:03.000 And I think we have people starting to realize this, and they're trying to, like, lunge out for it.

00:05:09.000 But we're being told it's alarmist.

00:05:12.000 We're being told it's a conspiracy theory.

00:05:13.000 And to me, that's what we've kind of landed on this health issue.

00:05:16.000 Let's just bring it down to the facts of what's happening to kids.

00:05:20.000 Let's bring it down to just, like, forget the conspiracy theory.

00:05:22.000 What even anyone's saying in this room, let's look what's happened to our food and look what's happened to kids.

00:05:26.000 Because by the stats we're seeing, there's something really dark happening.

00:05:30.000 Outside any conspiracy theory, just the statistics of what is happening to our health in this country and uniquely in America is dark.

00:05:37.000 And so, Casey, if you could do the same, sort of explain how you got on this path.

00:05:43.000 You started off with medical school.

00:05:45.000 Yeah.

00:05:46.000 Yeah, so just like Callie, you know, we grew up in D.C. I loved biology, went to Stanford Medical School, went on to do surgical residency and head and neck surgery, climbed the ladder, you know, do what every good medical student and resident is supposed to do,

00:06:01.000 climb the academic ranks, publish papers, etc.

00:06:04.000 And so I was heads down in that journey.

00:06:07.000 And Just like Callie's saying, like with what I think is happening with the American people right now and really more globally, like there was something inside of me that was whispering and then speaking a little louder and then finally was a deafening call to me that like something is not right.

00:06:25.000 Like I'm operating, I'm working eight hours a week.

00:06:27.000 I'm operating, you know, two, three, four or five surgeries a day.

00:06:31.000 And, you know, in some ways, I feel good about that.

00:06:34.000 You know, people, maybe their sinusitis is a little better for a little while.

00:06:38.000 But fundamentally, when you pop up for just a second, which they don't want you to do in healthcare, you know, everyone's working their tails off.

00:06:44.000 But when you pop up for just a second and look around at what is happening to American health, children's health, health across the lifespan, as well as global health, it's a disaster.

00:06:54.000 It's literally a disaster.

00:06:55.000 And again, this isn't...

00:06:56.000 People will say that's alarmist, but I... You know, in trying to understand, like, why don't I feel right about my work, I just started looking at the data in a different way, and I started to look at what was happening with health trends.

00:07:08.000 And if you just kind of run through the list of what's happening, it's unbelievable.

00:07:11.000 Like, we are getting destroyed, and it's very recent, and it's accelerating.

00:07:15.000 The stats speak for themselves.

00:07:17.000 You know this very well.

00:07:19.000 74% of Americans are overweight or obese.

00:07:22.000 50% now of American adults have type 2 diabetes or prediabetes.

00:07:26.000 These were diseases where there was 1% of Americans in 1950 had type 2 diabetes.

00:07:30.000 Now it's 50% of Americans have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes.

00:07:33.000 Alzheimer's dementia are going through the roof.

00:07:36.000 Young adult dementias have increased like three times since 2012. So early onset dementias we're seeing You know, this one in two Americans are expected to have cancer in their lifetime now.

00:07:48.000 One in two.

00:07:49.000 And young adult cancers are going up 79% in the last 10 years.

00:07:53.000 We've got, of course, the autism's rates are absolutely astronomical.

00:07:56.000 One in 36 children has autism now in the United States.

00:07:59.000 That was one in 150 in the year 2000. And in California, where I live, it's 1 in 22. 1 in 22 with a lifetime neurodevelopmental disorder.

00:08:09.000 We've got infertility going up 1% per year.

00:08:11.000 25% of men now, under 40, have erectile dysfunction.

00:08:16.000 A quarter of the country.

00:08:17.000 You know, this is fundamentally a metabolic disease.

00:08:20.000 We've got 77% of young Americans can't serve in the military because of obesity or drug abuse.

00:08:25.000 We've got autoimmune diseases.

00:08:27.000 Some studies are saying they're going up 13% per year.

00:08:33.000 It's really unbelievable.

00:08:34.000 And I could go through so many more diseases.

00:08:36.000 Of course, we've got heart disease, which is almost totally preventable as the leading cause of death in the United States, killing around 800,000 people per year.

00:08:46.000 And I think as I kind of just looked around, and again, these are just statistics, I started trying to put the pieces together.

00:08:54.000 Why is this happening?

00:08:55.000 Why are these all going up all at once?

00:08:58.000 And that led me on what is now a seven, eight year journey, ultimately leaving the surgical world, putting down my scalpel forever.

00:09:05.000 Because what I realized is that when you go to the science with a root cause perspective, you go back to PubMed with a slightly different perspective, not how do I treat these diseases once they emerge, but why are they happening?

00:09:14.000 You see a very obvious blaring answer, which is why we had to write a book about it, which is that it's all caused by metabolic dysfunction.

00:09:22.000 A term that I never learned in medical school.

00:09:25.000 I learned about metabolic syndrome and the different individual diseases that make it up.

00:09:29.000 But there is a problem.

00:09:31.000 There is a fundamental breaking of our core cellular biology that is caused by our diet and the world we're living in, the modern world we're living in today.

00:09:41.000 That is crushing the very way that the human body and our human cells can transmit food energy to life energy, to cellular energy.

00:09:53.000 Fundamentally, because metabolic health is how we make energy in the body, The way that our environment is now synergistic to use during our metabolic health, and the science is very clear about this, it's basically like all of us are a little bit dead while we're alive.

00:10:09.000 That's what metabolic dysfunction is.

00:10:11.000 It's less energy in the body.

00:10:12.000 We're underpowered.

00:10:13.000 And that's very dark.

00:10:15.000 Like when you step back and say, okay, This is clear from the research, and I never learned it.

00:10:21.000 I didn't learn it at Stanford Medical School.

00:10:22.000 I didn't learn it in my surgical residency.

00:10:25.000 And we could fix it.

00:10:27.000 We could fix it really quickly if we all popped up and woke up and looked at the data and put pieces together.

00:10:35.000 But of course, we're not trained to connect dots.

00:10:37.000 That's not our job in medicine.

00:10:39.000 We are trained to follow algorithms and to be reactive.

00:10:42.000 And so I think, you know, just to sort of Yeah.

00:11:09.000 Of what's actually happening in our world today.

00:11:12.000 It is a reflection.

00:11:13.000 Our human health is simply a reflection of the destroyed ecosystem of our globe.

00:11:19.000 The fact that we have forgotten that we're completely connected to nature and we're completely interdependent with nature, but the health crisis is simply a reflection of a destroyed ecosystem and humans have become So powerful and so technologically advanced and so connected in the recent decades that we now actually do have the power to both destroy the world and destroy our health.

00:11:44.000 And the health is just the tip of the iceberg of a much bigger thing happening that is existential.

00:11:51.000 We all want kids to be healthy.

00:11:53.000 We all want humans to be healthy.

00:11:54.000 But this is also interconnected with all the systems and all the issues.

00:12:00.000 I think it's hard for people to totally articulate that, but that is what's happening.

00:12:04.000 And we actually have a choice right now.

00:12:07.000 And I do believe this is the moment that we need to decide.

00:12:12.000 Are we going to address these interdependent issues?

00:12:16.000 And are we going to make the effort and be courageous enough to fight for this?

00:12:23.000 Or are we going to let ourselves be told that there's nothing wrong?

00:12:28.000 Nothing to see here while our health and the health of the planet is just absolutely being destroyed.

00:12:35.000 So that's what our mission is.

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00:14:34.000 I think one of the most disturbing things about it is how few people are speaking out when the data is so obvious.

00:14:41.000 And then when you guys lay it out, and when people like Brigham Bueller, Andrew Huberman, when any of these people that are very focused on what the problems are lay it out, The data's all there, but yet we're not being told this anywhere other than the internet.

00:14:57.000 It's only independent shows that don't rely on executives and networks where there's pharmaceutical drug companies advertising, or food companies, or any of these things.

00:15:09.000 You don't hear any of this stuff, I mean, other than Fox News has allowed you guys on a few times, right?

00:15:14.000 That's right.

00:15:15.000 They're the only ones.

00:15:15.000 Yeah, well, kudos to them.

00:15:17.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:15:18.000 It's a human issue, and the fact that people are willing to take money to not talk about one of the biggest problems that we have.

00:15:25.000 I didn't even know about the childhood dementia thing, or the young adult dementia thing.

00:15:29.000 Type 2 diabetes used to be never seen...

00:15:33.000 You know, among kids in their career.

00:15:35.000 It used to be called early onset.

00:15:37.000 They don't call it early onset anymore.

00:15:38.000 As Casey said, 33% of young adults now have prediabetes.

00:15:41.000 I mean, prediabetes is not some isolated thing.

00:15:44.000 It's the branch of the tree.

00:15:45.000 It's cellular dysregulation.

00:15:47.000 And every single disease is going down.

00:15:49.000 Alzheimer's is now called type 3 diabetes.

00:15:51.000 If you don't have prediabetes or diabetes, you have a very diminished chance of having Alzheimer's.

00:15:55.000 And, you know, so it makes total sense.

00:15:57.000 But somebody from Harvard Medical School that specialized in Alzheimer's, their entire course load, their entire training, their entire focus is on accepting Alzheimer's, that it's there, that it's growing, and then figuring out marginal improvements for it.

00:16:10.000 There's literally people that are the highest educated people in the world do not even understand what causes these diseases.

00:16:15.000 They're just accepting that and making the cures for them, the marginal treatments.

00:16:21.000 And I would just say also, if you do step back and look at everything holistically, one of the biggest problems with the healthcare industry right now is that it's so siloed.

00:16:28.000 We have over 100 different medical and surgical subspecialties.

00:16:31.000 And the business model of American healthcare right now is volume.

00:16:34.000 It's how many people can you see.

00:16:36.000 And so that's what you get paid for.

00:16:38.000 You don't get paid for outcomes, you get paid for volume.

00:16:40.000 That has incentivized a structure of healthcare where it's most profitable to actually be seen by as many specialists as humanly possible, and that's what the average American is dealing with.

00:16:48.000 They go to the primary care doctor with a list of issues and they get eight, ten referrals, and they spend their life going through the revolving doors of these different healthcare I'm just telling you this from sheer experience

00:17:19.000 of being in medical school.

00:17:21.000 We are not trained to see the body as a unified system.

00:17:23.000 We're trained to see it as 20, 30 different parts.

00:17:26.000 And so no one's seen the forest for the trees.

00:17:29.000 But like Kelly's saying, look at what's happening.

00:17:31.000 Look at what's happening with kids.

00:17:33.000 We've got ADHD through the roof, autism through the roof.

00:17:36.000 These are neurodevelopmental issues.

00:17:37.000 Then you look at midlife.

00:17:38.000 Well, women and men are depressed.

00:17:41.000 We have huge rates of mental illness.

00:17:44.000 25% of women.

00:17:45.000 25% of women now are on SSRI. I mean, we're living in the wealthiest, safest country in human history, and 25% of people are on SSRI. That's insane.

00:17:54.000 Then you go into menopause, perimenopause, that age group, and it's sort of brain fog.

00:17:58.000 And then we have full-blown Alzheimer's going up.

00:18:00.000 So we've got all these neurodevelopmental issues and neurodegenerative issues sort of across the lifespan.

00:18:07.000 And then you look at kind of the hormonal side of things.

00:18:09.000 We've got...

00:18:10.000 Girls going through puberty much earlier than they ever were.

00:18:14.000 Of continents on Earth, we are the earliest puberty rates right now.

00:18:19.000 That's gone down on an average six years since 1900. Our puberty rates are way earlier.

00:18:24.000 So girls are reaching sexual maturity at like age 10. We're getting pubic hair. 1.00

00:18:27.000 Then you've got, in midlife, you look at women, and infertility is the roof. 0.98

00:18:32.000 We've got PCOS is affecting 26% of women.

00:18:35.000 This is a metabolic fertility issue. 1.00

00:18:36.000 It's a leading cause of infertility in the country.

00:18:38.000 Then we look at older age, and menopausal symptoms are a disaster for women. 0.99

00:18:42.000 This is why a book like The New Menopause is the number one book in the country for a while, because women are desperate. 1.00

00:18:47.000 So if you step back and look at all these different things, we've got these neuro issues throughout the lifetime all exploding.

00:18:53.000 These hormonal issues throughout the lifetime all exploding.

00:18:56.000 It's happening all over the place, but no one's stopping and asking, why?

00:18:59.000 Like, why is this happening?

00:19:00.000 Instead, we put ADHD in a bucket.

00:19:03.000 We put depression and anxiety in a bucket.

00:19:04.000 We put Alzheimer's in a bucket.

00:19:06.000 And so that's really the problem.

00:19:09.000 And I think, you know, when you think about some of these things, it's like we're becoming infertile.

00:19:14.000 And we're losing our minds across the lifespan.

00:19:17.000 Like, what the hell is happening?

00:19:19.000 Like, that's what these diseases, these buckets of diseases represent.

00:19:23.000 And I think that's why I think it's, you know, we talked about, like, it's the tip of the ice.

00:19:27.000 Health is the tip of the iceberg of fundamentally, like, a planetary issue.

00:19:32.000 But, like, the planetary issue is the tip of the iceberg of what I think is really, really going on here, which is, like, a spiritual issue.

00:19:38.000 Like, we...

00:19:40.000 We are not fighting for life in this world anymore.

00:19:44.000 And I think that's more of a consciousness issue.

00:19:47.000 We talk about, why is no one covering this?

00:19:50.000 I think people see it.

00:19:52.000 I think in some way we have totally lost respect for the miraculousness Of life.

00:20:00.000 That's what our actions are reflecting.

00:20:02.000 We know a lot.

00:20:04.000 We have the technology, the money, and the resources to fix all of this, the planet and health, and we're not.

00:20:10.000 And that's why I think there's something darker happening on the consciousness level.

00:20:14.000 And I think we could get our way out of this.

00:20:17.000 I think it's going to be hard to get our way out of this.

00:20:20.000 If we stick to like partisan politics and quibbling about individual policy ideas, I think it has to start with like, are we committed to life and to awe and to connecting with source and then listening and moving our way out of here?

00:20:36.000 Or are we not?

00:20:37.000 And if we choose not, which is what I think we're doing, I mean, I think there's huge light happening because that's why everyone's interested in this.

00:20:45.000 That's why a lot of people are interested in this issue right now.

00:20:47.000 But, like, if we don't, like, I do think we're on the road to existential disaster because we're that powerful now.

00:20:53.000 And so, you know, I think...

00:20:58.000 Step one is us deciding, like, what choice do we want to make in this lifetime?

00:21:02.000 Do we want to believe that life is a miracle, this universe is a miracle, our bodies are miracles, and we want to connect with God in this lifetime?

00:21:12.000 We want to build and respect these temples that are interconnected with the earth to do that?

00:21:17.000 Or do we not?

00:21:18.000 And, like, that's the choice we have right now.

00:21:20.000 And I think we have to take that very seriously.

00:21:23.000 And I think a lot of the political stuff that's happening, Maha, it's all just a reflection of people who Wanting to find a way to fight for life and not knowing how.

00:21:33.000 But on the biggest level, that's what I think is kind of happening here.

00:21:38.000 And wanting life to make more sense than just this constant state of fatigue and constantly dealing with diseases.

00:21:45.000 I want to talk about a couple specific things you said and questions like, why are girls going through periods so much earlier?

00:21:53.000 Well, if you ask the New York Times, they'll write a headline that says, girls are going through puberty earlier, and no one has any idea why. 0.98

00:22:03.000 And of course, that's because there's not a double-blind, placebo-controlled, peer-reviewed RCT in a journal that can exactly pinpoint the one reason why it's happening.

00:22:13.000 But again, if we put the dots together...

00:22:16.000 Which, of course, I'm going to be called not evidence-based for saying that.

00:22:19.000 What's happening in our environment right now?

00:22:21.000 So what drives early puberty is excess estrogens, right?

00:22:25.000 We're pushing estrogens to basically spark that whole process of puberty. 0.96

00:22:31.000 Well, look at our world.

00:22:34.000 Why would we be having extra estrogens?

00:22:36.000 Well, let's look at our environment, the plastics.

00:22:39.000 So we've got plastics, as you know, everywhere.

00:22:42.000 I love you.

00:22:42.000 We're talking about this, I think, with Brigham.

00:22:44.000 You've got the metal cups, and I love it.

00:22:46.000 But there have been eight...

00:22:49.000 There's a billion metric tons of plastic produced on planet Earth since about 1907 when plastic was commercialized.

00:22:56.000 And the interesting thing about plastic is that when it breaks down, it acts like a xenoestrogen, an exogenous estrogen molecule that can literally bind to our estrogen receptors and act like estrogens.

00:23:06.000 So now we've got, you know, we've got, you know this, like we've got plastic F-ing everywhere.

00:23:11.000 It's literally in the air we're breathing, the nanoparticles, it's in our food, it's in our water, it's in everything.

00:23:17.000 And we've now found plastics in every human organ.

00:23:20.000 So of course that's affecting our bodies and our young girls' bodies.

00:23:23.000 It's actually affecting our bodies in utero.

00:23:25.000 There was a recent study that was done that showed a hundred percent of placentas that were dissected had microplastics in them.

00:23:32.000 So that's one.

00:23:33.000 Number two, look at the pesticides.

00:23:36.000 So there are pesticides, actually, where their molecular activity is to increase aromatase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen.

00:23:46.000 So atrazine, which is banned in Europe, but we spray 70 million pounds of it per year in the U.S., increases aromatase, which converts testosterone to estrogen.

00:23:58.000 Illegal overseas.

00:23:59.000 And We buy it from other countries.

00:24:04.000 So China and Germany and other countries are selling us a chemical of which 70 million pounds are sprayed on our food, invisible and tasteless, which upregulates aromatase and converts testosterone to estrogen.

00:24:14.000 So that's number two.

00:24:16.000 And then you look at just the fat that we have on our bodies.

00:24:19.000 So fat, and especially visceral fat, the metabolically active fat around our midline, that is a metabolically active organ that actually converts testosterone to estrogen.

00:24:29.000 So we are living in this like wildly estrogenic It's an environment that is created by humans.

00:24:38.000 And it's all invisible.

00:24:40.000 And, you know, again, it's like, how would you even do this study, right, to show that?

00:24:46.000 And yet, if you put the pieces together, it's very clear.

00:24:50.000 Now, going to later life and talking about estrogens, we've got a huge percentage of American women on birth control pills. 1.00

00:24:55.000 That's, of course, hopefully post-puberty.

00:24:58.000 But we're putting women on exogenous estrogens For acne, for PCOS, for menstrual irregularity, sometimes, of course, for actual birth control.

00:25:08.000 But it's very ubiquitous now in the environment.

00:25:12.000 And it's like, when you kind of know this stuff, you're like...

00:25:17.000 How are we allowing this to happen?

00:25:18.000 And then of course it's affecting boys too, right?

00:25:21.000 You know, and so I kind of just think about this world we're living in where it's tons of estrogens.

00:25:26.000 It's not like there's a bunch of exogenous testosterone, right?

00:25:29.000 It's not like the plastics are also stimulating testosterone.

00:25:31.000 So you've got these estrogens, then we're Barreled with sugar, and it's literally like it's in our kids' school lunches, the sugar everywhere.

00:25:38.000 Sugar is driving the visceral fat in kids, which is turning estrogen to testosterone.

00:25:42.000 So it's like we live in a world that's basically feminizing us, which for women, that's going to make puberty early. 0.95

00:25:47.000 For men, it's going to feminize them. 0.78

00:25:49.000 And then we also have an entire food system that's driving visceral fat to make us... 0.58

00:25:55.000 More estrogen sort of rich.

00:25:57.000 And what is this doing?

00:25:58.000 I think in a lot of ways it's depleting American vigor, right?

00:26:02.000 Like we're living in this estrogen stew that's hard to get away from.

00:26:07.000 This is where I think my experience ties, is that on the foundational level why this is happening, it's because these studies are all funded by the chemical companies, by the food companies.

00:26:18.000 We've almost been, I think, misled by the experts when it comes to chronic conditions and when it comes to nutrition to take leaves of our common sense.

00:26:24.000 Do we need to wait for a double-blind, placebo-controlled, human-randomized control study to know whether 0.5% of our brains being plastic is a good thing right now?

00:26:35.000 Do we need to have a human randomized control 10-year study to know whether an herbicide like glyphosate that's being sprayed on almost all of our food and our children's food that people have to wear hazmat suits to spray and kills every single organism in sight?

00:26:51.000 Do we need to wait for a study?

00:26:53.000 Just as the medical system is siloed, we've siloed all these questions and just taken leave of our common sense.

00:26:59.000 Like animals in the wild, Wolves in the wild are not getting chronic rates of obesity, diabetes, metabolic dysfunction.

00:27:05.000 We're born with an innate sense of knowing what's good for us, of knowing that the sun is good, of knowing that steak is good, that broccoli is good.

00:27:13.000 We can't overeat those things.

00:27:14.000 The problem is we've been lied to by the professors at Harvard, at Stanford, at Tufts Nutrition School that I believe are essentially, from my experience, PR for the food industry and the pharmaceutical industry that accepts all these things as a given.

00:27:28.000 I mean, Tufts Nutrition School, 80% of their budget is from food companies.

00:27:33.000 You know, by our estimate, 50% of Stanford Medical School's budget comes somehow touches pharma.

00:27:38.000 So just fundamentally, like, on the grassroots, like, micro level, these industries have co-opted our institution of trust and let us believe this.

00:27:47.000 And you ask why we're the only people speaking out, because we've made it that evidence-based medicine really accepts All this disease growing and happening.

00:27:57.000 And 95% of medical spending right now is on disease once it's happened.

00:28:01.000 It's on managing conditions.

00:28:02.000 And there's no higher levels of trust in our society than the NIH, than the FDA, than Harvard Med School, than Stanford Med School.

00:28:11.000 So all of them are enforcing this.

00:28:13.000 And then it's really just interesting where their emphasis is.

00:28:16.000 Like, I was just reading the other day that California, the medical board, is checking the licenses of doctors, putting them under review if they write five vaccine exception notes.

00:28:24.000 You literally are on the verge of losing your license.

00:28:27.000 If you even go outside the orthodoxy on vaccines...

00:28:30.000 But where is that level of emphasis?

00:28:32.000 Where is that level of focus?

00:28:34.000 Where is that level of rigor around metabolic health for kids, around nutrition for kids?

00:28:38.000 I think it is a big deal of kids getting polio, but 50% of teens are obese or overweight right now.

00:28:43.000 We have pre-diabetes skyrocketing.

00:28:45.000 The medical system knows how to focus on something.

00:28:48.000 They know how to tell Congress that there's no cost too high for something.

00:28:51.000 When it comes to pharmaceutical interventions, we're bankrupt in the country with interventions once people get sick.

00:28:56.000 I truly believe, and this gets to the solutions and how I actually think this is an optimistic story, people waking up, why it's an existential kind of knife's edge we're on right now.

00:29:05.000 We can change this really quick.

00:29:07.000 The issue is that interest that profit from us being in fear, that just fundamentally is a statement of economic fact, profit from us being sick, profit from us being depressed, profit from us being infertile.

00:29:17.000 They have co-opted our institutions of trust, and they've co-opted the clinical guidelines.

00:29:22.000 Like, literally, when I was a junior employee, I helped co-file money to the American Diabetes Association, okay?

00:29:29.000 The American Diabetes Association says that if you have diabetes, you don't need to worry about your sugar intake.

00:29:33.000 They say it's not tied to food, right?

00:29:36.000 The American Academy of Pediatrics right now is saying that if your child is overweight, slightly overweight, overweight, 12 years old, Dietary and infants don't wait.

00:29:45.000 It says do not wait to see if dietary and infants work.

00:29:48.000 Ozempic.

00:29:48.000 It's now being studied on six years old.

00:29:50.000 The American Psychiatry Association, right?

00:29:53.000 The psychiatrist, the standard of care.

00:29:54.000 If your child is a little sad, SSRI. Immediate intervention, right?

00:30:01.000 SSRI rates have doubled among high schoolers in the past five years, right?

00:30:04.000 If your child's a little fidgety, the standard of care, right?

00:30:07.000 It's not asking whether they're in the sunlight, not asking if they're too sedentary, not asking if they're being forced-fed ultra-processed food, which would make any animal crazy if we subject them to what kids are subjected to.

00:30:16.000 No discussion of that.

00:30:17.000 It's just not in the clinical guidelines.

00:30:19.000 So these doctors, these good people like Casey, go into the medical system.

00:30:23.000 We're this magnet for smart people.

00:30:25.000 We get them in for the right reasons.

00:30:27.000 There's easier ways to make money.

00:30:28.000 But they come in, and they get saddled with one skill, they get saddled with a bunch of debt, and then they're realizing this is a rigged system.

00:30:35.000 Some people, few people unfortunately, had the courage like Casey to drop out. 1.00

00:30:39.000 I thought she was an idiot. 1.00

00:30:40.000 I was like, what are you doing? 1.00

00:30:41.000 We were kind of brainwashed to do the traditional system.

00:30:44.000 I couldn't believe it.

00:30:44.000 We didn't talk for a year.

00:30:47.000 But it just is hard for people to understand that you can walk away from this because our society stamps these credentials on people.

00:30:54.000 Like, what's better than being the dean of Stanford Med School?

00:30:58.000 The dean of Stanford Med School right now was Casey's same specialty.

00:31:00.000 Had a neck surgery.

00:31:01.000 And the way you rise up in medicine is you do a specialty.

00:31:04.000 You focus on, you know, a couple inches of the face.

00:31:05.000 And then he focused on a fellowship on an even narrower part of the body.

00:31:10.000 Like, that's how you rise up.

00:31:11.000 You've siloed the situation.

00:31:12.000 Anything that's not siloed Is considered not scientific, is considered wacky.

00:31:18.000 They've called us the woo-woo caucus, talking about these nutrition.

00:31:22.000 The medical system enforces this siloed view where diabetes, heart disease, depression, kidney disease, cancer, they're all separate things.

00:31:29.000 If you have those conditions, you're seeing five separate doctors.

00:31:31.000 They aren't speaking to each other.

00:31:33.000 That's very profitable, very problematic.

00:31:35.000 So the solution Is truly just having the clinical guidelines of how diseases are assessed and how they're intervened changed to following the science, which is these are metabolic conditions.

00:31:49.000 Ninety percent of the U.S. medical budget is tied to managing preventable and reversible lifestyle conditions.

00:31:56.000 If we had people on Medicaid, instead of jamming with the statins, jamming them with Ozempic, jamming them with SSRIs, you know, lower income people were going bankrupt from Medicaid, $1.3 trillion, it's growing, it's a bigger part of the budget than the defense budget.

00:32:10.000 If we literally just ask how do we have that money to spur thriving, to incentivize exercise, to incentivize healthier food for these folks, We'd be a transformed country.

00:32:18.000 It's literally that simple, but it takes that moral courage.

00:32:21.000 It takes Americans actually saying, no, I am going to go against the NIH. I am going to ask questions.

00:32:27.000 But of course, we have violent...

00:32:29.000 Just reading back, what was it, 2022?

00:32:31.000 Every single public health official in America said you were the enemy number one for talking about sunlight and talking about food and talking about healthy eating.

00:32:38.000 COVID was a metabolic condition.

00:32:40.000 COVID was a foodborne illness.

00:32:41.000 If you were metabolically healthy, you did not die of COVID, pretty demonstrably.

00:32:45.000 And you were threat number one.

00:32:49.000 Go ahead.

00:32:49.000 Yeah, I think Callie's getting into something also that I think is part of the reason why...

00:32:54.000 Fortunately, there are a lot of doctors speaking out right now, and I have so much gratitude for all the other, not only doctors, but NPs, DOs, chiropractors, nurse practitioners, all these amazing people who are speaking up and getting a lot of shit for it.

00:33:08.000 But this is very tribal.

00:33:09.000 And I think that when you think about...

00:33:11.000 And it's hard.

00:33:12.000 This is a primal instinct to not break out of the pact and to not go against what The norm is.

00:33:20.000 So I think in a lot of ways that we're dealing with like here is going to come down to like how courageous are we willing to be to move humanity back and by humanity very much also the earth's health because they're interconnected.

00:33:33.000 They're one in the same.

00:33:36.000 How courageous are we going to be to stand up for that?

00:33:38.000 Or are we going to let things slip through our fingers?

00:33:40.000 And I think the tribe when I was in medical school like it's amazing Because of the interest and the fact that, you know, Stanford got a $3 million grant from Pfizer while I was there to revamp the curriculum and the fact that the American Diabetes Association that makes clinical guidelines is getting millions of dollars from Coke and Cadbury and the American Diabetes Association is getting millions of dollars from Mead Johnson that makes formula and Abbott Nutrition that makes formula and vaccine companies that make flu vaccines.

00:34:08.000 Like the fact that the money, I mean, 8,000 major conflicts of interest were just reported at the NIH with food and pharma.

00:34:14.000 So at every level, the medical guidelines that if you step out of, you are at risk for litigation as a doctor, and the NIH, this thing that we all respect, tons of conflicts of interest, and the medical schools accepting money,

00:34:30.000 the tribe that then you become a part of as a trainee is a tribe that only hears one thing.

00:34:37.000 And so I have a lot of compassion for doctors because I did go through medical school and not learn I think?

00:35:00.000 Organ-specific physiology, pharmacology, and then in residency I learned how to do surgery.

00:35:05.000 And then, of course, throughout the whole thing I learned how to bill.

00:35:07.000 But that is ultimately, those are not the tools that actually generate foundational cellular health.

00:35:13.000 You know, 80% of medical schools in the United States don't require a single nutrition course.

00:35:16.000 Not one minute of nutrition.

00:35:18.000 Wow.

00:35:18.000 And yet 90% of our healthcare costs are tied to diseases.

00:35:21.000 The things that are torturing American lives are tied to food.

00:35:24.000 And doctors, it's not a hammer in our toolbox.

00:35:27.000 I didn't learn, you know, I didn't learn at Stanford Medical School that 95% of the people on the USDA Food Guidelines for America Committee had a conflict with the food industry.

00:35:37.000 I didn't learn that there were 8,000 conflicts of interest at the NIH. I didn't learn that there are 8 billion tons of plastic on planet Earth that are degrading into estrogen analogs.

00:35:48.000 I did not learn that there are 6 billion pounds of pesticides sprayed on our global food supply every single year, most from China and Germany, and that these are literally tied very strongly to Alzheimer's, dementia, cancer, obesity, mitochondrial dysfunction,

00:36:04.000 infertility, I think?

00:36:26.000 A little bit, 7,000 steps, which takes like 45 minutes.

00:36:29.000 You slash your risk of every major, you know, chronic disease.

00:36:33.000 I didn't learn that we need to be getting sunlight because circadian biology dictates our cellular health.

00:36:41.000 Like we are diurnal animals that have biologic processes that happen during the day and other biologic processes that happen at night.

00:36:49.000 And the way your body knows, whether it's day or night, is if you get photons hitting your retina and your skin cells.

00:36:55.000 Pretty basic.

00:36:56.000 Pretty foundational for human health.

00:36:58.000 Didn't learn anything about it.

00:36:59.000 Didn't learn anything about sunlight.

00:37:00.000 Didn't learn anything about photons.

00:37:02.000 Didn't learn anything about sleep.

00:37:03.000 You know, we're sleeping 20% less on average than we were 100 years ago.

00:37:08.000 And sleep is a huge risk factor.

00:37:10.000 You can, in an experimental setting, take a young, healthy person and subject them to sleep deprivation for five nights and they become pre-diabetic.

00:37:17.000 Well, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic and type 2 diabetic and we're not sleeping well.

00:37:20.000 And I didn't learn not one minute on sleep.

00:37:23.000 So all the things and so many more, and of course, nothing about nutrition.

00:37:30.000 You know, and Marty Macari talks about this, like, I certainly didn't learn that medical error and medication is the third leading cause of death in the United States.

00:37:38.000 I learned that patient comes in and I need to label their diagnosis and give them a pill.

00:37:44.000 When I speak of the tribalism, it's like I have so much compassion for doctors who feel stuck right now.

00:37:51.000 They're stuck in a broken system.

00:37:53.000 The tribe that they're a part of has taught them a certain set of things.

00:37:56.000 There are huge trillions of dollars of interest to make the things that they learn a specific myopic lens.

00:38:05.000 And Putting together dots is risky because if you step outside the guidelines, you're at risk for intense litigation and potentially ridicule.

00:38:15.000 I mean, I'm called pseudoscientific alt-right, you know, woo-woo caucus all the time.

00:38:20.000 And so it's scary.

00:38:22.000 And I think that fundamentally this is again why it comes down to like this is actually more of a consciousness and spiritual issue because it's like we need to pray for courage.

00:38:31.000 We need to sit down every morning and decide what we want for the future.

00:38:36.000 What do we want?

00:38:37.000 We're all players.

00:38:38.000 We're all important.

00:38:39.000 We all need to use our voices.

00:38:41.000 Being complicit, like, what future do we want and what are we willing to do for it?

00:38:46.000 And get our priorities straight.

00:38:49.000 Is our priority like our house and our mortgage and our boat and our comfortable life that's killing us?

00:38:54.000 Or is it to elevate, to be stewards of the future and of the planet and to make some harder choices?

00:39:02.000 And I think one thing I would just say, if there are doctors listening, and I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but this tribe on the other side that I think we're all in of promoting health, it's beautiful.

00:39:14.000 And people are really healthy and happy.

00:39:17.000 And it's not that hard, and it's not that expensive.

00:39:20.000 And everyone is welcome here in this tribe of trying to move humanity towards more I think we need to break out of that sort of more...

00:39:57.000 I don't think most people were aware of the problems in regards to the food system, in regards to pesticides, in regards to how people...

00:40:10.000 Learn nutrition in medical school.

00:40:12.000 I don't think they were really aware of that until about five or six years ago.

00:40:15.000 I think it started to creep into the zeitgeist.

00:40:18.000 I think before that people just put all their faith in doctors and then I think COVID happened and people lost a lot of faith in the medical system.

00:40:25.000 They lost a lot of faith in the NIH. They saw all the contradictory videos of Fauci saying, you know, you're not We're not gonna catch COVID and Rachel Maddow and all that shit. 0.78

00:40:36.000 And you're like, oh my God, this is all a bought and paid for system to promote profit.

00:40:41.000 Yeah, I think Jamal talked a little bit about this, but I think it's so important because nobody realizes this.

00:40:48.000 I think a lot of people listening to us years ago, it's just like, this sounds conspiratorial.

00:40:52.000 And it's just like, what actually happened?

00:40:54.000 And there's a couple like really important dates that happened that are historical that I think like set this structure really intentionally.

00:41:01.000 The first was 1909, the Flexner Report.

00:41:04.000 So literally John D. Rockefeller's personal lawyer wrote the report for Congress that It basically set the standard today for medical education.

00:41:12.000 And it literally says in the binding guidelines that holistic health and nutrition and anything about interconnected to the body is pseudoscience.

00:41:20.000 It says we need to name the condition and cut it out or prescribe it.

00:41:23.000 And what year is this?

00:41:24.000 1909. So they're still going by the recommendations of 1909. We still follow the Flexner Report.

00:41:32.000 Yeah.

00:41:32.000 A policy, I mean, we can get to policies, but like rescinding the Flexner Report and having updated scientific education and standard of care guidelines based on what we've learned since 1909 about the majesty of the interconnectedness of our body is a really good first start because we're binded under a law,

00:41:51.000 just demonstrably, just like, again, not conspiratorial.

00:41:53.000 John D. Rockefeller's personal lawyer He wrote this report.

00:41:56.000 Why?

00:41:57.000 Because John D. Rockefeller is the father of the pharmaceutical industry and created pharmaceuticals from byproducts of oil production and was the first investor into Johns Hopkins and other major medical schools, University of Chicago, and started the modern education program for health.

00:42:13.000 There were some big issues in the health of the Wild West, but he created Johns Hopkins and the standard of residency training As a way to silo diseases very intentionally and then prescribe his products and interventions as the top pharmaceutical maker.

00:42:29.000 And the medical schools that he created were basically a distribution system to him.

00:42:34.000 Okay, so you get to World War II. Up until World War II, around that time, the 1950s, 1960s, I would argue almost any medical miracle you can think of or any listener can think of was created before that time.

00:42:47.000 You know, it's all acute situations, emergency surgical procedures, sanitation procedures, antibiotics to make an infection not deadly.

00:42:55.000 Almost every medical miracle we can think of was something that was going to kill you right away, infectious disease, and then you take the pill or take the treatment for a finite period of time and you stop it or do the surgery quickly and you're cured.

00:43:08.000 Those are medical miracles.

00:43:09.000 And we had a lot of good things happen up until World War II. Very intentionally, the medical industry saw the birth control pill in the late 1950s, 1960s.

00:43:19.000 And the birth control pill was the first pill in world history that people took for longer than a couple weeks.

00:43:24.000 It was the first pill ever that is like, oh, interesting.

00:43:27.000 You can actually convince someone to take a pill for years, for almost most of their life, recurring revenue.

00:43:32.000 And there was a huge emphasis of the medical industry to take the trust engendered up until 1960. RFK talks about this.

00:43:39.000 We didn't spend money on chronic disease management.

00:43:41.000 All medicine was acute issues.

00:43:43.000 Chronic disease, diabetes, obesity, that was outside the doctor's office.

00:43:47.000 They saw that you could medicalize chronic conditions.

00:43:51.000 Today, 90% to 95% of spending is on chronic conditions.

00:43:54.000 So what do we do?

00:43:55.000 In the 1970s, literally the Sackler family, their grandkids and kids did the opioids, their forebearers created Valium.

00:44:06.000 And 30% of women in the United States in the 1970s were on Valium.

00:44:10.000 Time Magazine, Valium Nation, Mommy's Little Helper.

00:44:12.000 So we started creating all these psychiatric conditions, we started medicalizing heart disease, we started medicalizing all these type 2 diabetes, started creating academic research totally funded by the pharmaceutical industry, saying that type 2 diabetes isn't reversible, that it's basically genetic,

00:44:28.000 heart disease, all these things, and started pilling them, started pilling them.

00:44:31.000 Then what happened to food?

00:44:33.000 Chronic disease wasn't that big of a deal in the 1970s, 1980s.

00:44:37.000 You look at the graph.

00:44:39.000 You look at the graph of all chronic conditions.

00:44:41.000 There's just a sharp turn in the 1980s.

00:44:44.000 It's literally almost to the year of the Surgeon General report saying smoking wasn't great.

00:44:50.000 So the second that report came out, Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds were two of the largest companies in the world.

00:44:56.000 It wasn't like Microsoft and Google on the top companies list.

00:44:59.000 It was like cigarette companies.

00:45:00.000 You know, dopamine is a really good thing to sell, which the tech companies do now.

00:45:05.000 And they used their cash piles.

00:45:06.000 And by 1990, the three largest M&A deals in American history, in world history, were cigarette companies buying food companies.

00:45:13.000 So you had Nabisco bought by R.J. Reynolds.

00:45:16.000 You had Kraft and U.S. Food buy.

00:45:17.000 And you see those graphs of all the food companies owned by like a couple companies?

00:45:23.000 That was the cigarette companies.

00:45:24.000 And they did two things very, very intentionally.

00:45:27.000 They took over the institutions of trust to say ultra-processed food was healthy, and then they took their scientists and rigged the food itself to make it more addictive.

00:45:36.000 Not to kill kids, but to make it more addictive.

00:45:38.000 So you had that literal food pyramid, which said ultra-processed food is great, low-fat, carbs, base of the pyramid.

00:45:44.000 That was constructed literally by the cigarette industry to promote their addictive products.

00:45:51.000 And this weaponization of food, as I call it, it's not just like this conspiracy.

00:45:55.000 Literally the cigarette industry, Those two companies, Philip Morris and Archie Reynolds, were the two largest food producers in the United States.

00:46:02.000 Like 50% of American food were created by cigarette companies in the 1990s.

00:46:06.000 And they have gotten us addicted and weaponized this food, and all chronic conditions have just shot up.

00:46:11.000 It's because that ultra-processed food, literally, by tobacco industry scientists, hijacks our evolutionary biology.

00:46:18.000 Again, you can't overeat grass-fed steak, but these food, with scientists much smarter than any of us, That's what they're doing.

00:46:26.000 They're shutting off our society signals.

00:46:28.000 The byproduct of this cheap, addictive food, which we don't even have research for yet, is that it's sprayed with all these chemicals.

00:46:34.000 It's sprayed with 10,000 chemicals that are allowed in the United States when only 400 are allowed in Europe.

00:46:39.000 All these chemicals to make the food addictive, to make the food cheap, you know, to do the monocropping.

00:46:43.000 And that food is absolutely...

00:46:45.000 And we don't need to wait for the research on this.

00:46:47.000 These chemicals, these neurotoxins, are destroying our cells, destroying our microbiome in ways we don't fully understand.

00:46:52.000 So I just want to make clear to everyone, like, this has happened, like, very intentionally.

00:46:56.000 Like, and it can be undone pretty quickly, too.

00:46:59.000 But we have to realize this isn't a conspiracy.

00:47:01.000 It's true corruption that happened deliberately.

00:47:07.000 I would just add a few more, like, dates.

00:47:09.000 Like, you know, I think one thing about the research, you know, we're one of the only countries in the world where the burden of proof for harm, like, we allow these chemicals to just enter our food system.

00:47:19.000 We have 10,000 chemicals in our food system.

00:47:23.000 Europe, only 400. Because they have to show that it's safe before they use it.

00:47:27.000 We're allowed to use it.

00:47:29.000 And then, you know, only if there's issues that crop up do people have to do research.

00:47:34.000 So, you know, there's this, like, ridiculous, G-RAS generally recognizes safe designation, which is essentially a company self-assesses whether the chemical that they are creating is generally recognized as safe.

00:47:48.000 No one's overseeing it.

00:47:49.000 And Brigham talks about this, like, compassion for the FDA. They're overwhelmed.

00:47:52.000 There's a lot of stuff to do.

00:47:54.000 It's kind of like a hoarder's house.

00:47:55.000 Where do we even start?

00:47:57.000 I don't necessarily know if I buy that.

00:47:59.000 I think that it's pretty bad and bought off that we have all these chemicals.

00:48:02.000 But they basically just have to self-designate if it's generally recognized as safe and then it can go into our food system.

00:48:07.000 One thing that I find really interesting that I really reflect on a lot is, what is the difference between a food chemical and a drug?

00:48:14.000 They're all just synthetic molecules that are made in factories, in labs by scientists.

00:48:20.000 Do you know what the difference is?

00:48:21.000 Intended use.

00:48:22.000 So basically, if the intended use is for food, you can synthesize almost anything you want and put it in food.

00:48:29.000 We are being mass drugged and poisoned in our food system with 10,000 virtually unregulated chemicals, which have bought off papers saying that they are safe.

00:48:38.000 I mean, you look at what happened with all the Monsanto litigation about non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.

00:48:43.000 They had to release...

00:48:45.000 This whole thing called the Monsanto papers.

00:48:47.000 They were declassified.

00:48:48.000 They ghost-wrote scientific papers saying that glyphosate is safe.

00:48:54.000 So there's all this corruption in there where basically we have 10,000 unregulated chemicals in our food system and we're getting sick as hell, obviously.

00:49:01.000 And then you've got the evidence-based people saying, well, we need to have a 10-year longitudinal study to show that glyphosate is causing XYZ disease.

00:49:10.000 And it's like, obviously that's not the right approach because, first of all, It is the synergistic combination of all the toxins that are now in our environment that are leading to all these pleiotropic health issues.

00:49:26.000 That's very hard to study.

00:49:28.000 So we have to get our heads out of our ass and use our common sense and realize what's going on and not wait 10 years with these NIH-funded studies that are going to be corrupted. 0.56

00:49:38.000 And I think So that's just one thing about the food chemicals. 0.97

00:49:43.000 I just wanted to add to your point, Cal, some other dates.

00:49:47.000 You look at the processed food emergence.

00:49:49.000 Processed food really didn't start taking off until these mergers.

00:49:53.000 There was a little bit of a start of it.

00:49:55.000 Ultra-processed foods did not exist before World War II. And, you know, we needed to have shelf-stable food for soldiers and things like that that we could ship, and so there were maybe some good intentions there, but then there was an opportunity there that got seen.

00:50:09.000 And we can also, you know, weaponize the feminist movement against, you know, oh, being in the kitchen, you're a slave, you know, your values outside the home, you need to climb the corporate ladder. 1.00

00:50:20.000 Here, have this convenience food that we basically made for soldiers, and we're going to tell you that this is actually your liberation.

00:50:26.000 So, of course, we got people not cooking.

00:50:28.000 Families aren't eating together anymore.

00:50:31.000 Kids are eating 67% of children's calories now are ultra-processed foods.

00:50:37.000 These means foods that come from a factory made by food scientists.

00:50:41.000 Not just processed, ultra-processed.

00:50:43.000 The highest form of processing, 67% of calories.

00:50:47.000 Then you go to...

00:50:50.000 The 1970s, and we have the advent of high fructose corn syrup, which as Callie talks about, this preceded some of the mergers, but high fructose corn syrup is a weapon of mass destruction that basically food scientists use an understanding about hibernating animals,

00:51:05.000 like bears, who fructose is one of the only types of calories where instead of making you feel satiated, it makes you more hungry.

00:51:12.000 And this is evolutionarily, and we knew this.

00:51:15.000 In the fall, when animals are preparing for hibernation and they start eating fructose-rich berries, they need to put on a ton of fat for winter.

00:51:24.000 And so there's a feed-forward mechanism with fructose where it actually gets the bears to be hungry and even violent.

00:51:31.000 To out-compete other animals to get as many berries as possible in a short period of time to lay 3D print fat for winter.

00:51:38.000 So you have the scientists understanding this and say, hey, we can make liquid fructose a thousand times more potent than the fructose you'd find in berries.

00:51:46.000 Same molecule, but in higher concentration.

00:51:48.000 And we can add it to everything.

00:51:49.000 We can add it to salad dressing.

00:51:51.000 We're going to add it to ketchup.

00:51:52.000 We're going to add it to children's school lunches.

00:51:54.000 We're going to add it, obviously, to sodas.

00:51:56.000 And we're going to make people insatiable.

00:51:58.000 We're going to make their bodies and their brains think that they're preparing for winter that's never coming.

00:52:04.000 And there has been research that shows that high-risk corn syrup is associated with violence, ADHD in kids, all of these different things.

00:52:11.000 Just last thing I'll mention, flash forward, 1986, I think another very important date, which is the date when the litigation went through that said we couldn't sue vaccine manufacturers and the Vaccine Safety Act.

00:52:22.000 That's a very important date in the whole history because it is one of the first times where we were able to pass legislation through Congress that said that pharmaceutical companies could not be sued for wrongdoing.

00:52:31.000 And that still is present today.

00:52:34.000 They basically put together a little paltry little fund that people could apply to get no-fault reimbursements for vaccine harm, but you cannot sue the company.

00:52:45.000 So you start to get companies being legally immune from wrongdoing, which has then accelerated, and they're now starting to try and push things like that for pesticides as well.

00:52:52.000 So that's just some of the history of why we are where we are today.

00:52:56.000 It's not rocket science.

00:52:57.000 This has all been very institutionalized and structured, and it's the last 50 years.

00:53:02.000 We can undo all of this with leadership.

00:53:06.000 So that's just a little bit of the picture of how we are where we are today.

00:53:10.000 Can I just say one thing about the fructose corn syrup?

00:53:12.000 I'm so glad you brought that up because I didn't know that there was a unique way that it makes it more addictive and kills your satiety.

00:53:19.000 Oh yeah.

00:53:20.000 Or increases it, or kills it rather.

00:53:23.000 I'd always thought that sugar was sugar.

00:53:26.000 And this is one of the arguments that a lot of people that are poo-pooing all this stuff.

00:53:30.000 Like, oh, this is nonsense.

00:53:31.000 Sugar is sugar.

00:53:32.000 Yeah.

00:53:32.000 Like, there's no difference between the sugar in high fructose corn syrup versus the sugar in an apple.

00:53:36.000 No, it's really interesting.

00:53:37.000 There's two amazing books on this.

00:53:39.000 Richard Johnson from University of Colorado wrote Nature Wants Us to be Fat, and then David Perlmutter wrote Drop Acid.

00:53:46.000 Both books are about a molecule called uric acid, which is unique to fructose metabolism.

00:53:53.000 So when fructose is metabolized in the body, not like glucose, it creates uric acid, which creates oxidative stress and mitochondrial dysfunction in the brain and the body.

00:54:05.000 We're good to go.

00:54:27.000 And on top of that, the mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative stress when happening in the brain is what may inspire the violence and the ADHD and all that stuff to make the bears manic so they get as much berries as possible.

00:54:36.000 This is what's happening in every kid in every classroom in America now.

00:54:40.000 And so that's kind of some of the biology very simply about what's happening with fructose.

00:54:46.000 So the apple is probably a bad example, but like cane sugar.

00:54:50.000 Is cane sugar fructose based?

00:54:52.000 Well, it generally is going to have sucrose, which is going to have some amount of glucose and fructose.

00:54:58.000 But this is the thing about fruit, is that we have 40 trillion cells, and we have the ability to clear uric acid, and we have the ability to process fructose.

00:55:08.000 In a physiologic amount.

00:55:10.000 We're never gonna have the uric acid increasing and overloading the mitochondria if we're eating an apple.

00:55:15.000 It's when you're eating 20, 30 times the fructose that an apple has and you're literally pouring it down.

00:55:23.000 Starbucks.

00:55:43.000 But we can't clear all of it all the time, 24 hours a day, in 100 times the quantity of all these things together.

00:55:50.000 And the research and the evidence-based thing and this cult of the science, they love to ignore that.

00:55:57.000 The idea of synergistic effects of this Of this overwhelming breaking of our cellular resources is just conveniently forgotten because we study things in isolation.

00:56:08.000 That's literally the definition of how a double-blind placebo-controlled study happens.

00:56:13.000 It's one variable and one thing that you're testing.

00:56:17.000 You can't do it on food.

00:56:18.000 That doesn't make sense.

00:56:19.000 We live in a toxic stew.

00:56:22.000 The only answer of double-blind placebo-controlled studies, which every guest comes on, is just like, that's just the gold standard.

00:56:27.000 Everyone just accepts that that's what you need.

00:56:29.000 A double-blind placebo-controlled study, the only answer is a pill, like, essentially.

00:56:33.000 You can't test psychedelics on that way.

00:56:35.000 You can't test food.

00:56:37.000 You can't test exercise.

00:56:38.000 You can't blind those things.

00:56:40.000 So anything that actually...

00:56:42.000 It recognizes the unison and the interconnectivity of why we're getting sick can't be studied through a double-blind placebo-controlled study.

00:56:50.000 You actually have the FDA that's basically created.

00:56:51.000 You saw this with the recent MDMA decision.

00:56:54.000 It's basically rigged that the only thing that can be approved through the, you know, top way we study things and approved drugs is a synthetic pill.

00:57:04.000 That's the only thing that it can basically lead to through a double-blind placebo-controlled study.

00:57:08.000 It's like with vaccines, it's like, yeah, I bet that one vaccine probably isn't causing autism.

00:57:12.000 But what about the 20 that they're getting before 18 months?

00:57:16.000 Like, we don't look at it in synergistic, you know?

00:57:19.000 And so that's a big problem.

00:57:21.000 And this is where the cult of the science, and I say the science specifically because science is beautiful, using the scientific method and using that way of inquiry into the natural world is a beautiful art.

00:57:33.000 But weaponizing Papers that are often bought for or corrupted.

00:57:42.000 And, you know, the leaders of some of our key medical journals have actually even said that 50% of scientific research that publish ends up being wrong.

00:57:49.000 So it's bought for, corrupted, or wrong.

00:57:52.000 We rely on this.

00:57:54.000 And one interesting trend that we're seeing in our world is that if we do choose to put dots together or use our intuition, our God-given intuition...

00:58:06.000 Anything other than this particular way of examining things, you are dangerous.

00:58:12.000 You are dangerous.

00:58:14.000 And I think that that's something we need to really question.

00:58:16.000 You know, I think, especially as a woman, like, and I'm thinking about having kids soon, I'm like, thinking about like, wow, like, I have the ability in my body to build a human, 3D print a human, pull in a soul to that human.

00:58:33.000 I don't need a peer-reviewed study or a textbook to tell me how to do that.

00:58:36.000 Our body and our intuition and our minds and the subtle things happening inside us are important.

00:58:41.000 They are incredible.

00:58:43.000 We have now been told that you can't trust it and you are dangerous if you do that.

00:58:48.000 And I think that's one of the reasons why I think parents are very frustrated right now is because Parenting, I'm not a parent yet, but you know, Callie is, but like, you know, when we're being told now that parents are the enemy for using their own judgment about their families and kids, like, I think that's probably, it's deeply frustrating to people.

00:59:05.000 And that's basically what we're being asked to do.

00:59:10.000 Yeah.

00:59:10.000 I want to talk about Alzheimer's.

00:59:12.000 That was the other thing that I wanted to talk about when we talked about early puberty.

00:59:15.000 You mentioned escalating risks of Alzheimer's.

00:59:19.000 When did Alzheimer's become a thing?

00:59:23.000 Because I was reading this article that was saying that it was before the advent of seed oils.

00:59:28.000 You very, very, very rarely saw it, if at all.

00:59:31.000 No, it's been exploding like every single other chronic condition.

00:59:34.000 I'll just quickly go in ties to Casey's point you just made.

00:59:37.000 This year in 2024 is the highest rates in American history of Alzheimer's, cancer, autoimmune conditions, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, kidney disease, autism.

00:59:49.000 Every single chronic disease you can think of is at an all-time high growing at an increasing rate as we spend more money to treat those conditions.

00:59:56.000 So, I think one point we're trying to make is that all the NIH, all the FDA, it's all on accepting that trend as a given.

01:00:07.000 It's totally washed their hands of it.

01:00:09.000 And how do we find marginal pills to make this a little bit better, not asking why?

01:00:13.000 And that question about Alzheimer's, the point we're trying to make, is that when it comes to chronic conditions, which Alzheimer's is, You have to really not ask the Alzheimer's question.

01:00:22.000 You have to ask why that's one branch on this tree, obesity, right?

01:00:25.000 This tree.

01:00:27.000 And we talk about, and I think Casey has this amazing framework, you can literally look at five biomarkers, the biomarkers of metabolic dysfunction, HDL, triglycerides, blood sugar, blood pressure, and your waistline.

01:00:39.000 I'm not joking.

01:00:40.000 I'm not being hyperbolic.

01:00:41.000 If we fired every single researcher and canceled every single grant in the U.S. government for all chronic disease research and all nutrition research and created all policy to maximize those five biomarkers in America, you by definition don't have type 2 diabetes.

01:00:57.000 You almost have a zero percent chance of getting heart disease.

01:01:00.000 You have very close to zero percent chance of getting Alzheimer's.

01:01:03.000 You are not obese by definition.

01:01:06.000 Literally, you go down every single chronic condition that is torturing American life.

01:01:10.000 If you're diabetic, you're four times more likely to be depressed or suicidal because there are cells in our head and diabetes is cellular dysregulation.

01:01:18.000 So, like, literally, I'm not – like, on the research and the science thing, You know, I think there's great heroes who've been, you know, getting into the weeds on the research, but chronic disease is interconnected to basic lifestyle factors.

01:01:33.000 I think this is a political issue, honestly.

01:01:34.000 Every American needs to ask, is this an incremental issue where we need slightly better pharmaceutical interventions and slightly better research?

01:01:41.000 I don't know.

01:01:47.000 I don't know.

01:01:57.000 This is dark right now.

01:01:58.000 Like, if you believe what Casey's saying about these statistics about chronic disease, and you actually look at the math that we're growing two times with healthcare spinning the rate of GDP, it's the largest and fastest growing industry in the country.

01:02:10.000 The fastest growing industry in the United States is not AI. It's not tech.

01:02:13.000 It's healthcare.

01:02:14.000 And as it grows, we get sicker, fatter, more depressed, more infertile.

01:02:19.000 It is going to bankrupt the country, and it's not slowing down.

01:02:21.000 So if you actually believe this, believe we need a new paradigm, is it about getting better research, or is it about actually saying the research is wrong, this whole paradigm of seeing chronic disease in silos is wrong?

01:02:31.000 So I'm sure you can talk more about Alzheimer's, but it's interconnected.

01:02:34.000 Yeah, no, I think the point about incrementalism versus radical is the question we need to be asking ourselves.

01:02:39.000 Like we're not, yeah.

01:02:40.000 And so in terms of Alzheimer's, so I think something really interesting framing is that the brain, you know, it's only 2% of our body weight, but it uses 20% of our body's energy.

01:02:52.000 And there's been this theory with Alzheimer's of like, oh, it's the plaques in the brain.

01:02:56.000 It's the tau and the tangles and the beta amyloid and all these things.

01:03:00.000 And so we thought, okay, well, if we can get rid of those with a drug, like maybe it'll improve.

01:03:05.000 But no Alzheimer's drugs really work meaningfully.

01:03:08.000 And more recently, there's been this understanding of like, okay, metabolic dysfunction is definitely going up.

01:03:13.000 We know metabolic syndrome and diabetes are going up.

01:03:15.000 And the brain uses 20% of the body's energy.

01:03:18.000 And something that's happening in the body, like diabetes, is also happening in the brain.

01:03:23.000 Chris Palmer talks about this in such an amazing way in his book, Brain Energy.

01:03:26.000 But like, we've somehow decided to separate the brain from the body as if they're different things, when in fact, they're all just made of cells.

01:03:34.000 We're good to go.

01:03:55.000 We're good to go.

01:04:17.000 You've got now 30% of teens with prediabetes.

01:04:20.000 You've got middle-aged people now 50% with prediabetes or type 2 diabetes.

01:04:25.000 Of course, that's also creating an energetic deficit.

01:04:27.000 So this neurometabolic, neuroenergetic theory of Alzheimer's, maybe with these cells crying out for health, Help.

01:04:36.000 Maybe some of these plaques that we're seeing are actually a protective mechanism.

01:04:39.000 The brain actually laying down almost like protective shielding.

01:04:43.000 It's a response to an underlying metabolic issue as opposed to the problem itself.

01:04:49.000 But of course, in our paradigm, we're like, we just got to get rid of that symptom of the problem.

01:04:53.000 When in fact, actually, if we could unencumber the brain to be able to make energy properly, make good energy properly, that's why our book is called Good Energy, they would actually be able to heal itself and to have the power to do its work, which is cognitive thinking.

01:05:09.000 I was just going to say, an amazing book about Alzheimer's.

01:05:13.000 That just hasn't gotten as much attention as I think it should as Dale Bredesen's book, The End of Alzheimer's, because he talks about when you really look at the research, there are about 36 different biomarkers and factors.

01:05:24.000 I think he calls them like the 36 holes in the roof of what creates, like if it's raining and you plug one hole, your house is still going to be filled with water.

01:05:32.000 You have to plug all 36 holes to prevent or reverse the We're good to go.

01:05:54.000 And there was an amazing Lancet paper from a couple years ago that showed that if we just got on top of some of the basic modifiable factors of our metabolic health, we could slash Alzheimer's rates from happening.

01:06:05.000 So, you know, I think, yeah, fundamentally it's one more branch on the tree that is rooted in this metabolic dysfunction in our body, which is fundamentally rooted in three processes that uniquely really hurt the brain, which is oxygen stress, mitochondrial dysfunction, and chronic inflammation.

01:06:21.000 These are the three hallmarks of metabolic dysfunction.

01:06:24.000 And the brain is so sensitive and such a complex, high processing power organ that these core cellular disturbances that make up metabolic dysfunction, which are caused by our environment, and cannot really be addressed with drugs, mitochondrial dysfunction,

01:06:40.000 oxidative stress, chronic inflammation, they're showing up so prominently in the brain.

01:06:45.000 I'll just say like there's kind of just a question with all we're hearing about these diseases.

01:06:49.000 Is the reason Alzheimer's is skyrocketing because we don't have enough research and don't have enough drugs?

01:06:55.000 Is the reason obesity rates are skyrocketing on kids because we don't have enough drugs or not enough research?

01:07:00.000 That's the argument that's being given to us.

01:07:01.000 We're literally being told.

01:07:03.000 Right?

01:07:03.000 After the lessons of COVID, which the COVID lockdowns and what the pharmaceutical industry did with their co-option of our government with COVID was the most significant public policy mistake in American history, at least since World War II. In modern times, I think we can all agree on.

01:07:17.000 We are still saying, and it's just people, I think, because we trust the medical system still so much, we are literally thinking societally that That the fact that there's an obesity crisis among six-year-olds is a drug deficiency issue.

01:07:31.000 Like, it's a dark, I think, blind spot in our culture right now.

01:07:37.000 The reason why I brought up Alzheimer's, there's a couple reasons.

01:07:40.000 One, the amyloid plaque research, wasn't that proven to be flawed, like, deeply and maybe even corrupt?

01:07:48.000 And then there was another, there's something that came out very recently.

01:07:52.000 See if you can find this, Jamie.

01:07:53.000 I think Jay Bhattacharya might have tweeted it.

01:07:56.000 You were talking about this with Max Legevier.

01:07:58.000 Yeah.

01:07:59.000 Oh, Max Legevier.

01:08:00.000 He tweeted it.

01:08:00.000 But Dr. J is great.

01:08:01.000 Yeah.

01:08:02.000 So that there was rampant corruption.

01:08:06.000 Oh, yeah.

01:08:07.000 Well, this is coming out every day.

01:08:08.000 We're hearing about a new premier researcher who's published hundreds of papers in their field who literally are...

01:08:16.000 Western blots are one of these things you see in scientific papers that basically show you protein levels.

01:08:21.000 Copied and pasted Western blots in, like, papers across their career.

01:08:26.000 Like, just made-up data that then has served as foundational dogma for future research.

01:08:33.000 So you think about the ripple effect...

01:08:35.000 SSRIs, too.

01:08:36.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:08:37.000 And so this...

01:08:39.000 But this is...

01:08:39.000 It really gets back to the core problem that's above all the problems, which is an incentive problem.

01:08:46.000 Like, it's a simple economic incentive problem that's basically...

01:08:51.000 And I think it's that what we're striving for in this country is ultimately economic growth and value.

01:09:03.000 That is what we care about.

01:09:05.000 And so, you know, in each industry, you see people fighting for that, including at the NIH, including researchers.

01:09:11.000 We're all motivated by this carrot that is destroying us.

01:09:15.000 And yeah, it's very, very dark because, yeah.

01:09:20.000 Jamie, see if we can find that Max Lugavere.

01:09:23.000 Twitter wasn't working.

01:09:24.000 Twitter's off.

01:09:25.000 The Russians. 0.71

01:09:28.000 Max Lugavere posted it on Instagram as well.

01:09:31.000 Yeah, Max.

01:09:32.000 Over a hundred and...

01:09:35.000 Over 100 NIH-funded Alzheimer's and Parkinson's research papers contain completely made-up data according to new allegations.

01:09:41.000 Billions in funding and years of research now in serious doubt.

01:09:46.000 So with Max, actually, with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, with Marty McCary, Chris Palmer, a number of voices, we're engaging members of Congress.

01:09:57.000 We're talking, you know, to helping whatever we can with RFK and Trump's leadership on this.

01:10:02.000 But I had a somewhat out-of-body experience that kind of hits on what you're getting at.

01:10:07.000 I was sitting across from the member of Congress, and I think it's the exact same issue on obesity, who introduced this Treat and Reduce Obesity Act.

01:10:17.000 It has 150 co-sponsors, and it's to jam government-funded ozempics.

01:10:24.000 So it starts with Medicare.

01:10:26.000 80% of people on Medicare, old people, are obese or overweight.

01:10:29.000 So the second this bill is signed, you have open season on all people on Medicare.

01:10:34.000 And then the second something's approved for Medicare, it always goes to Medicaid for lower income people.

01:10:38.000 Because why would an old person be eligible for something but not a poor person in the United States? 0.64

01:10:42.000 So that immediately goes to Medicaid.

01:10:43.000 That's the game.

01:10:44.000 And then Medicaid, right, it's six years old.

01:10:46.000 It's now being pushed for on six-year-olds.

01:10:49.000 The second this bill is signed, $1,600 per patient per month, taxpayer money, which is why Novo Nordics is the ninth most valuable company in the world right now, this Danish company expecting 90% of their profits from the United States on expectation of this bill's passage.

01:11:05.000 So we're sitting across from him.

01:11:07.000 And I bring these things up.

01:11:09.000 And I bring up a simple question of, Why is this one-size-fits-all jamming Ozempic into the average American's arm instead of opening up flexibility to potentially explore regenerative food or exercise or incentivizing those things?

01:11:23.000 It's not even fully anti-drug, but what clinician said this is the cure?

01:11:28.000 This is the one cure?

01:11:29.000 Because it's not opening up any money for food or exercise or any other modality that could actually cure the root cause of obesity.

01:11:35.000 And he looked at me fully, fully serious and said I'd never thought of that.

01:11:41.000 And I told them that it's being pushed on kids and that there's an aggressive effort where Dr. Fatima Cody-Stanford, the top obesity researcher at Harvard, was funded significantly by Novo Nordics and millions of dollars in research grants and went on 60 Minutes where the top funder of 60 Minutes is pharmaceutical companies and said obesity is a brain disease and a genetic.

01:11:59.000 She said that.

01:12:00.000 Top Harvard researcher.

01:12:02.000 And she said it needs to be aggressively intervened for kids.

01:12:04.000 I said there's open season on kids.

01:12:06.000 The guy who introduced the bill, he said, that's not true.

01:12:10.000 I'm going to put in the bill that kids can't use it.

01:12:12.000 I'm like, you'd be going against the FDA guidance on that.

01:12:14.000 You can't do that.

01:12:15.000 I go, you understand, based on the J.P. Morgan estimates, Where they literally presented the estimates of increasing obesity rates at the JP Morgan conference in San Francisco.

01:12:25.000 And all the investors clapped like seals, standing ovation.

01:12:29.000 Standing ovation as they presented a chart on rising obesity rates showing that as Olympic increases in prescription rates, obesity in the United States will increase.

01:12:37.000 Unpack that one for me.

01:12:38.000 They show that graph and everyone claps.

01:12:40.000 Because it's a lifetime drug.

01:12:42.000 Because it's a crash diet.

01:12:43.000 It's liquid anorexia.

01:12:44.000 It makes you not want to eat.

01:12:45.000 Crash diets don't work, right?

01:12:46.000 And of course, you know, more than 50% of the people that even have insurance funding for it go off of it within six months because it's the highest rate of side effects of any mass drug prescribed in American history.

01:12:56.000 But he didn't know all that.

01:12:58.000 And he looked at me in the eye, the person who introduced this bill that is going to be one of the most expensive bills in American history, the market cap of the ninth most valuable company, the most valuable company in Europe.

01:13:08.000 They passed LVMH, the fashion company.

01:13:10.000 The most valuable company in Europe rests on this bill.

01:13:12.000 This is the guy that essentially wrote it.

01:13:15.000 He said, no, no, no.

01:13:16.000 It's a short-term solve.

01:13:17.000 Oh, it's a short-term solve.

01:13:18.000 Look at me right in the eyes.

01:13:19.000 I'm like, no.

01:13:20.000 It literally says there's metabolic issues and it warns somebody going off the drug.

01:13:24.000 It says you have to take it for life.

01:13:26.000 He did not know that.

01:13:27.000 The corruption is you have Brad Winstrup.

01:13:32.000 If somebody wants to do something, if we want to change the world, email members of Congress, email Brad Winstrup, call his office, and say, we think before we jab six-year-olds with Ozempic, we should fix our food system.

01:13:43.000 This thought literally didn't occur to him.

01:13:45.000 So what's happening with this corruption, what's happening with obesity, with Alzheimer's, Is the corruption is like, it doesn't even get to people even understanding.

01:13:55.000 The boiling frog, it's just so, it's just obviously we're just going to find a drug, not ask why people are getting Alzheimer's.

01:14:01.000 Obviously we're just going to jam 60-year-olds with those Zempic and not ask why people are getting obese. 1.00

01:14:05.000 And then, you know, I literally get talking points in the room as he starts thinking about it.

01:14:08.000 Oh, it's hard.

01:14:09.000 Dietarian treatments are hard.

01:14:10.000 It's like, what's happening now is hard.

01:14:11.000 Like going to a playground with my two-year-old son and seeing every kid clearly having issues, clearly dealing with obesity, like 60 years old, you know, seeing processed food all over the playground.

01:14:20.000 Like what's happening now, poisoning ourselves en masse is pretty hard.

01:14:24.000 So there are simple ways to do this.

01:14:26.000 If Dr. Fauci in 2020 said COVID has strong metabolic links and we need to harden up our immune system, it's a problem.

01:14:32.000 We're dying three times at a higher rate than the Japanese per capita.

01:14:35.000 That's 16% of all COVID deaths are in the U.S. and we're like 4% of the population.

01:14:40.000 This is a warning sign for our immune system.

01:14:42.000 We need to shift the healthcare budget to getting fit, to incentivizing exercise, to fixing and talking to Will Harris and other regenerative farmers and consulting them on how to transform our food system, seeing that the medical system has co-opted what drugs are and what medicine is.

01:14:58.000 It's nothing short of a moral blind spot that food and exercise aren't seen truly as drugs, that they aren't seen as interventions from the $4.5 trillion we spent on medical systems.

01:15:08.000 They do that in Europe.

01:15:09.000 The Italians are three times less obese and diabetic than us.

01:15:13.000 I don't think the Italians, you know, are more vigorous. 0.99

01:15:16.000 I don't think Americans are lazier than Italians.

01:15:18.000 Like, there's something systemic happening where they spend three times less per capita on healthcare and two times more per capita on food.

01:15:25.000 And they're living eight years longer.

01:15:26.000 Eight years longer.

01:15:26.000 Well, and everybody notices it when you go over there and eat.

01:15:28.000 Oh, yeah.

01:15:29.000 You feel good.

01:15:30.000 Eat that pizza, you know?

01:15:31.000 It's like the only place in the world I can eat gluten because it doesn't destroy my gut.

01:15:35.000 Yeah.

01:15:35.000 It's crazy.

01:15:36.000 It's crazy and it's weird that all these things that you say are so clear and they make so much sense.

01:15:42.000 It just doesn't occur.

01:15:43.000 Well, it speaks to capture.

01:15:47.000 Industry capture.

01:15:48.000 I met with Nancy Pelosi two weeks ago.

01:15:50.000 Looked her in the eyes because we've been helping RFK, helping Trump and we should talk about that.

01:15:57.000 I think there's a really, really important societal dynamic happening with that unison.

01:16:00.000 But I'm preparing as much as I can to foster this bipartisan conversation.

01:16:05.000 I can tell you, everyone in the room, right, like, is horrified by the statistics.

01:16:11.000 But every time, their staffers are slithering behind them.

01:16:15.000 And the healthcare staffers in Congress are waiting for their next job with the pharma industry or the insurance industry, and they really drive the place and make the bills.

01:16:22.000 But a real problem with the corruption is these people making policies, literally chairs of healthcare committees.

01:16:29.000 The simple ideas you're talking about and we're trying to express on metabolic health on this simplicity really of why we're getting sick, it's not being like corruption is like leading them to deny it.

01:16:39.000 It's like they just do not understand.

01:16:41.000 Like these meetings we're doing and this hearing we did with Max and Brigham and others, Julian Michaels and so many great people, it literally was giving these ideas to these members of Congress for the first time.

01:16:53.000 You know, there'll be a lot more on this, but it's so simple, but literally letting your lawmakers know.

01:16:58.000 I hear two things again and again from meeting with over 40 members of Congress.

01:17:02.000 It's like, I don't understand this, I don't know this, and my phone's not ringing off the hook.

01:17:05.000 If I go against pharma, they're getting all the old people to call and say, don't kill me. 1.00

01:17:09.000 Like, like, like, like, to me, this issue, what's why this issue is becoming so resonant is because we're all feeling and I think it's actually we're hitting on the most important issue in the country.

01:17:17.000 I think it's why everyone's flocking to books on this issue.

01:17:20.000 Why podcasts?

01:17:22.000 Like, why your podcast is the number one podcast.

01:17:25.000 I mean, I consider you I've learned more about metabolic health and healthcare listening to guests on your show than I think Casey's probably learned at Stanford Med School.

01:17:31.000 So it's like people left to their own devices are flocking to this and we need to channel, we need to make a statement with our politics.

01:17:38.000 This is unfortunately a political issue.

01:17:40.000 So you were one of the people that helped sort of broker the deal with RFK and Trump and bring the two of those together.

01:17:46.000 Tell me how that got started.

01:17:48.000 Tell me how that worked out.

01:17:50.000 Yeah, I mean, when I think about that story, I literally think about 2021, our mom abruptly dying of pancreatic cancer.

01:17:57.000 She was taking a hike, got a pain in her stomach.

01:18:00.000 Got a text the next day after getting a scan saying she has stage 4 pancreatic cancer.

01:18:03.000 We rushed to her side.

01:18:04.000 She died 12 days later, just totally surprisingly.

01:18:07.000 And Casey and I, on her grave site, literally hugged each other and said, we want to write a book and we want to make this and evangelize this, inspired by you and others.

01:18:15.000 We want to evangelize this and add to the chorus to prevent what's happening because so many Americans are on this pharmaceutical treadmill and then the cancer is random.

01:18:22.000 It's not random.

01:18:23.000 Like all these warning signs that were missed with my mom, her pre-diabetes, her high cholesterol, her high blood pressure, those were pilled, not seen as gifts to get to the root cause.

01:18:33.000 And then she was chopped down by cancer.

01:18:35.000 This is happening to everyone.

01:18:36.000 So we want to evangelize that.

01:18:38.000 And we've been on the path as best we can with companies and evangelizing.

01:18:42.000 And through these amazing podcasts like Tucker, we got connected with people.

01:18:46.000 So got to know RFK, got to know Democrats, and got to know the Trump campaign.

01:18:51.000 And in the past year, I will say this, the Trump campaign has been extremely interested in the policy of why kids are getting so sick.

01:19:00.000 And if you go back a year ago, President Trump actually at rallies to loud applause has been talking very similar points to RFK. So we got to know RFK. Sitting watching the first assassination attempt, I had like a spiritual, what I can call it kind of out of body experience.

01:19:16.000 And I felt the need to call Robert.

01:19:19.000 I think what he has done is historic.

01:19:21.000 The fact that he was getting up to 20% of the vote highlighting this issue, tapping in, I think, to this consciousness and tapping into this stream that you're tapping into, I think it really showed something.

01:19:32.000 And I had this vision for a year.

01:19:34.000 Actually, it sounds very woo-woo, but I was in a sweat tent with him in Austin at a campaign event six months before, and I just had this strong vision of him standing with Trump and how what RFK represents is actually what Trump represents and actually what almost every American's feeling,

01:19:52.000 which is this frustration and this rigged This thing that doesn't quite feel right that you can't quite put your finger on.

01:19:59.000 And it was so clear to me that how RFK talks about health personifies this overall kind of institutional capture.

01:20:08.000 It makes it real for people in a really visceral way because it's clearly impacting their kids.

01:20:12.000 That was all the context.

01:20:14.000 Pick up the phone, called him and just urged him, you know, as a supporter, as a lowly supporter, to consider maybe this is the time as President Trump put his fist up, you know, with all this momentum.

01:20:24.000 There's rare moments in history where the deck can change.

01:20:28.000 And I really felt and he felt like this could be a realignment of American politics because that moment felt very heavy after the assassination.

01:20:35.000 So we went back and forth and he's like, let me talk to him.

01:20:40.000 So I worked with Tucker and we connected them that night.

01:20:43.000 And here's the key point I want to make for my small vantage point here.

01:20:48.000 They had weeks of conversations.

01:20:51.000 And there was not a discussion of polling.

01:20:55.000 There was not a discussion of the horse race and how this would impact the race.

01:20:58.000 These were tear-filled conversations about why kids are getting so diabetic, about why we have such obese children in the United States, about why we have a fertility crisis.

01:21:08.000 This was a true connection of these two men and a true deep bond, which I think you're seeing out there on the campaign trail, that this transcends politics and Trump wants this to be a generational issue for him.

01:21:21.000 And I just want to say something.

01:21:22.000 I think we're at a big moment here.

01:21:26.000 We're debating trivia.

01:21:27.000 I think the two most existential issues are nuclear war or what's happening to our health.

01:21:33.000 And whatever you think, and I used to be a never-Trumper.

01:21:37.000 Watching him care about this issue, watching what's happening with the RFK, watching what's happening of how that's resonating with voters, seeing from my small vantage point inside, there is tremendous connection of these two men and moral clarity of seeing what's happening. 1.00

01:21:55.000 And my question is this, and to anyone kind of considering voting in this election, Trump is going to say stupid shit. 1.00

01:22:01.000 He is Trump. 1.00

01:22:02.000 We know who he is.

01:22:04.000 There's two important questions to ask.

01:22:06.000 Who sees this corruption and institutional capture that's going to destroy our country, I think, to an existential level?

01:22:13.000 And who is willing to suffer that blowback?

01:22:16.000 Who is willing to go up against these military-industrial complex, the healthcare-industrial complex, the education-industrial complex that's making us a non-competitive system?

01:22:25.000 They are ready.

01:22:27.000 Who is going to appoint?

01:22:28.000 This is a question I have.

01:22:30.000 Who do we believe is going to appoint people like RFK, people like Elon Musk, to stir stuff up?

01:22:37.000 Who is going to do that?

01:22:38.000 That, to me, is the foundational question.

01:22:40.000 And I do consider this the most important election of my lifetime, watching these two men, because it is so genuine.

01:22:48.000 And there is like a genuine desire to truly transform, to see our broken corruption and institutions for what it is, and really, truly, I think, prevent nuclear war and dramatically reverse Our health crisis.

01:23:06.000 Trump has said that his one big mistake last time was personnel, was that the pharma and the ag slithered in and gave him the list of names.

01:23:14.000 Everybody should ask, do you think RFK is going to have an influence on those names based on what Trump has said?

01:23:19.000 And I think he is.

01:23:20.000 And I think people like Elon are going to be involved.

01:23:22.000 I think there's this coalition of people that are coming together and Trump's going to put in power and listen to.

01:23:29.000 And this is a bipartisan issue.

01:23:31.000 And no matter what happens, we have to solve this issue.

01:23:33.000 But I will say this so clearly with the most conviction I can.

01:23:38.000 We will...

01:23:40.000 Be on the verge, I think, of a health population collapse, societally destabilizing event unless true executive leadership sees this corruption and this issue for what it is and says we need a radical transformation in how we see agriculture and how we see health,

01:23:56.000 our two largest industries.

01:23:57.000 I think we have to have that.

01:23:58.000 And every single member of Congress I meet with, including Democrats, Say that in order for this issue to get done, we need a president to make this the priority to talk because that gives us air cover and there could be transformational change if a president does that.

01:24:10.000 So that's what I've seen from being in this.

01:24:12.000 And I can tell you, President Trump has kept every promise to RFK and deeply cares about this issue.

01:24:18.000 It also seems like if this isn't done now, they will take steps to make sure it can never be done in the future.

01:24:26.000 Look what they're saying about free speech.

01:24:28.000 Yeah.

01:24:28.000 Right now.

01:24:29.000 You know, you probably covered this.

01:24:31.000 It's just absolutely wild.

01:24:34.000 The free speech comes from the rigging of the scientific research.

01:24:38.000 Bill Gates said this week that we need immediate AI to scour the internet and take any vaccine misinformation out of the internet automatically on any format, any private webpage.

01:24:50.000 This is wild.

01:24:51.000 And he said because the second that virus spreads in people's minds, the damage is done.

01:24:56.000 So his number one use case for AI is to scour the internet and remove any vaccine misinformation from the internet.

01:25:04.000 That is because the largest and fastest growing industry in the country has completely co-opted the most trusted.

01:25:13.000 Parts of the country.

01:25:13.000 There's no higher level than the NIH, than Harvard Med School.

01:25:17.000 They know that.

01:25:18.000 Harvard Med School is a subsidiary pharma, just demonstrably.

01:25:21.000 The FDA is 75% funded by pharma.

01:25:24.000 Like, this isn't a conspiracy.

01:25:27.000 And there's a revolving door.

01:25:28.000 And you've got people like Scott Gottlieb, I think the people like Trump's talking about, still thinking he's going to have power.

01:25:37.000 This person that goes straight to Pfizer.

01:25:40.000 And you've got him and people like this.

01:25:42.000 And I've met with many of them.

01:25:44.000 Oh, this book is amazing.

01:25:46.000 Good Energy is amazing.

01:25:47.000 The food, you know, of course, we've got to get kids healthier. 0.83

01:25:50.000 We've got to work with pharma.

01:25:52.000 We've got to work with all the stakeholders, insurance companies.

01:25:56.000 We've got to be incremental here.

01:25:58.000 There's a war right now between incrementalists And radical change.

01:26:03.000 We are living in a great time, but we have existential threats.

01:26:06.000 And the question before everyone in this very important election is, do we need more incrementality, or do we need a fundamental rethink of some of our major systems?

01:26:16.000 I really think that's what's before us.

01:26:18.000 And as Casey said, I think we're in a good period of history right now, certainly, but we're facing, I think, more existential threats that I really think we don't fully appreciate.

01:26:30.000 This is a it's such a unique time and it seems like without a person that's a total outsider like Trump that's being so attacked the fact that they it's not just that they disagree with him they attack him is that they do it in unison they do it so coordinated that you realize there is a machine behind this and that they repeat the same talking points over and I mean it's like they're given a script and That there's no repercussions for lies.

01:26:58.000 With the Russiagate stuff, with all the various different things that have been concocted to try to take him out, no one gets in trouble and the same people are still disseminating the news.

01:27:08.000 And more people, I think, are aware of that than ever before and more people are aware of this institutional capture.

01:27:16.000 And I think this is why the freedom of speech issue is actually so important and so existential, because the thing that gives me hope right now, like, this all sounds dark, but we're both extremely optimistic.

01:27:27.000 But if the ability to talk about these issues is taken away, that is when I would lose hope, right?

01:27:33.000 Because the fact that, you know, independent media Is the most listened to form of media on planet Earth right now.

01:27:42.000 That is a good thing.

01:27:43.000 We can still discuss ideas and the light can connect across the globe.

01:27:49.000 But when you start severing that ability, like there's a beautiful force happening right now.

01:27:54.000 I think we all see it.

01:27:55.000 Like people are waking up.

01:27:56.000 People understand that there's a problem.

01:27:58.000 Like we see this every day and, you know, Twitter has its issues and whatnot.

01:28:03.000 But like people are talking and connecting from around the world to try and Figure out how to solve these issues that we all know on some level in the quietness of our heart are a really big, big deal and that the time is now.

01:28:18.000 And if that gets taken away, I worry about what's gonna happen.

01:28:23.000 Well, and it is getting taken away in some formats.

01:28:26.000 There was something, I believe I retweeted it, see if you can find it, about YouTube taking down a podcast for medical misinformation.

01:28:34.000 And there was none.

01:28:36.000 And this is without Twitter, without X, without Elon buying it, and this person being able to post, I think it was Schellenberger.

01:28:46.000 Was it Schellenberger?

01:28:48.000 See my Twitter feed?

01:28:49.000 Is it up there?

01:28:54.000 Well, this is the...

01:28:56.000 Oh, here we go.

01:28:56.000 It's below the...

01:28:58.000 Hold on.

01:28:59.000 We need people like Dr. J. Empower.

01:29:06.000 Maybe I didn't tweet it.

01:29:09.000 Should we rethink the Constitution?

01:29:11.000 Is the First Amendment a major roadblock?

01:29:12.000 These are questions.

01:29:14.000 I can talk a little...

01:29:16.000 This game is known.

01:29:18.000 It may be obvious, but I don't think people realize this.

01:29:22.000 The reason there's such a fight against you is because it's this 100-year change of information sources where the biggest issues in the country can no longer dictate what the information sources are.

01:29:35.000 When I worked for Pharma, the advertising budget, all the stuff you hear about how much they spend on cable news and 50% of TV news spending is Pharma, it wasn't to impact consumers.

01:29:51.000 It was to impact the news itself.

01:29:54.000 The spend on news shows came out of DC lobbying offices, not the New York, Madison Avenue advertising offices.

01:30:03.000 It was like, we're going to...

01:30:04.000 It was in the lobbying budget.

01:30:06.000 It was like, we're going to pay off all the news so we have a direct line.

01:30:10.000 So if you're paying 50% and a huge funder of all the tech companies' ads, their ad companies, then you've got a direct line.

01:30:22.000 And then you've got the Harvard study.

01:30:24.000 So when you have the Harvard study that's fully funded by pharma or the food industry, like the food industry, processed food spends 13 times more on foundational nutrition research than the NIH, but even the NIH is really conflicted saying that lucky chums are healthier than beef, literally.

01:30:42.000 You've got those studies.

01:30:44.000 So what is this person at the news station or YouTube to do when you've got the Harvard study?

01:30:49.000 They've realized that you can weaponize this thing.

01:30:51.000 So that's how it's connected.

01:30:52.000 And then time and time and time again, I hear from members of Congress on major committees, that's the corruption.

01:30:58.000 That's where the corruption happens.

01:30:59.000 They got the lobbyists just throwing studies.

01:31:02.000 If you put...

01:31:04.000 Restrictions on childhood nutrition, on federally funded school lunch programs, which is the top source, one of them, of calories for young kids.

01:31:11.000 If you take sugary cereal like Lucky Charms off that, you're going against the science.

01:31:15.000 You're going against the NIH. You can't be asking for farm fresh eggs.

01:31:19.000 Farm fresh eggs are down here.

01:31:20.000 Lucky Charms are up here.

01:31:21.000 Like, it's funny, these studies, but that's what they do with them.

01:31:24.000 And then I hear time and time again from these members of Congress who are good people, but it's like, Callan, I'm a military guy.

01:31:30.000 Or I come from business.

01:31:31.000 I don't understand this stuff.

01:31:33.000 You just gotta defer.

01:31:34.000 So that's how the corruption works.

01:31:36.000 And that's how the research connects to PR. Is this it?

01:31:44.000 No.

01:31:45.000 I know I saved it.

01:31:46.000 So give me one second and I'll pull it up off of my phone because I definitely saved it if I didn't retweet it.

01:31:52.000 But it's...

01:31:55.000 I think one of the things that we keep highlighting that I think is very important is that most people are not even really aware of this.

01:32:02.000 This is very new to most people in the zeitgeist of the common person, the common person who's just trusted their physician and trusted the medical establishment.

01:32:11.000 I think this requires a real shift in consciousness of people and a real understanding of what's going on.

01:32:18.000 But there's pings of that consciousness happening.

01:32:22.000 That's why I think the leadership is so damn important here, Joe.

01:32:26.000 It's like when this stuff is under the shadows and when the FDA is able to lobby to fund the organization that's supposed to regulate it, when the USDA is lobbying, excuse me, when food companies are lobbying You know, to have the USDA not have any conflicts of interest.

01:32:41.000 When these things, there's not a tension on them, and Americans aren't being explained, this, like, mass corruption that's compromising all of our scientific guidelines and standard of care, where $4.5 trillion of incentives flows to.

01:32:52.000 Like, it's hard...

01:32:53.000 But I would push back.

01:32:55.000 I mean, I just...

01:32:56.000 I don't think it's fully formed in people's heads, but, like, I think people are, like, clamoring to put these pieces together.

01:33:03.000 And that is what...

01:33:05.000 That is...

01:33:06.000 I think RFK standing on the stage with Trump and them grasping hands and saying make America healthy, I think it was one of the biggest political realignments and important moments in American history.

01:33:16.000 Kennedy endorsing Trump.

01:33:17.000 I think a lot of us feel it.

01:33:21.000 I think you see it on the ground.

01:33:23.000 This Kennedy-Trump thing is powerful.

01:33:26.000 The media denigrates it, but Kennedy is explaining this.

01:33:29.000 The media denigrates it, but I don't think people have any faith in the media anymore.

01:33:34.000 Even the New York Times, which used to be the number one, I don't think people have faith in the media anymore.

01:33:40.000 They're clamoring, they're clamoring to this message.

01:33:43.000 Like, watching RFK and Trump at a rally, it's the most electric political experience I've ever seen.

01:33:48.000 Like, it was the loudest applause I've ever heard.

01:33:50.000 There's something visceral.

01:33:51.000 When RFK starts talking about the CDC needing Dr. Jay Barshari on there and the FDA, You know, and the NIH and starts naming those agencies and starts saying we're going to get to the bottom of why our food for our kids is poison and we're going to reverse childhood chronic disease by taking on this corruption.

01:34:07.000 When they say that, it's electric.

01:34:09.000 It's like a release.

01:34:10.000 It's like a release.

01:34:11.000 So it's everything.

01:34:12.000 Everyone's been listening to you reading these books, trying to put the pieces together.

01:34:15.000 I think RFK is more effectively putting the pieces together.

01:34:18.000 And I think people ask, oh, President Trump, he eats unhealthy.

01:34:22.000 No.

01:34:23.000 President Trump's, the foundation of his existence is taking on corruption.

01:34:26.000 Like, that is why he's on the political stage.

01:34:29.000 That is why he's been the defining, for whatever you think of, the defining political figure of our generation.

01:34:33.000 Like, because he's tapped into this frustration of voters that something isn't quite right.

01:34:39.000 Right.

01:34:39.000 And that they're good people, and if we can get this corruption out of the way, that he's staying in the way of this corruption, and we can unleash the American people if we get this corruption out of the way.

01:34:46.000 That thesis is correct.

01:34:49.000 What he has tapped into is the defining political trend of our lifetimes, this populist uprising that's happening throughout all the world.

01:34:56.000 He has tapped into that in a very powerful way.

01:34:59.000 He's talked for a long time about pharmaceutical corruption and these issues.

01:35:03.000 He understands it innately.

01:35:05.000 But RFK, really, I think better than anyone alive, is sharpening this issue.

01:35:11.000 And he's arguing, as we're trying to argue, it's very simple.

01:35:14.000 It's actually not that complicated.

01:35:16.000 You just need to put, truly, as a first step, put Dr. J. Bashari at the CDC, right?

01:35:21.000 Put someone who's not trying to get their next job at pharma, who's aligned with this fundamental agenda at the NIH, at the FDA, at the HHS. And then have people like Elon.

01:35:31.000 Elon's saying he wants to run government efficiency.

01:35:33.000 He wants to look at how government's performing.

01:35:36.000 HHS is the largest and the most expensive department in all of government.

01:35:42.000 What if someone like Elon, people like Bill Ackman who joined this cause, what if they were given an executive order to analyze the HHS, To against the goal of promoting health and thriving and disease reversal for the American people.

01:35:57.000 You have the smartest people in the world doing that.

01:36:00.000 I mean, you'd have radical change.

01:36:02.000 If you can learn what the pharma has known for the past 30 years, that co-opting our institutions with trust, everything else is downstream of that.

01:36:10.000 There's nothing upstream in culture or trust of those agencies, because where do we go about that?

01:36:16.000 Right.

01:36:16.000 So they dictate everything.

01:36:18.000 They dictate the nutrition guidelines.

01:36:19.000 They dictate our agriculture incentives.

01:36:21.000 They dictate our standard of care that's jamming a drug down 40% of teens' throats right now. 0.99

01:36:27.000 If you can not co-op them like pharma's doing, but get them back to unbiased science.

01:36:33.000 The NIH right now, 95% of NIH grants they're spending is on marginal pharmaceutical R&D. It's literally an outsourced R&D lab for pharma.

01:36:39.000 Every person listening would expect the NIH job is to do foundational research.

01:36:44.000 That's literally what everyone's saying.

01:36:46.000 It's not.

01:36:46.000 Not at all.

01:36:47.000 If you, just with a swipe of a pen and leadership, just demand, day one, that the NIH goes back to population-wide, fearless studies about why we're getting sick.

01:36:56.000 That's what we need.

01:36:57.000 We literally need the NIH only asking that question, why are we getting sick?

01:37:01.000 What variables are tied to chronic disease?

01:37:04.000 Have you anticipated what kind of backlash and how this would be handled?

01:37:09.000 Like, what kind of backlash would you get from these captured institutions if this did happen, if Trump and RFK get into office and they start implementing these policies and changing things and bringing new people at the helm?

01:37:24.000 There's one candidate.

01:37:25.000 They're shooting it.

01:37:26.000 Yeah.

01:37:27.000 There's one candidate.

01:37:30.000 Executive leadership is existential to this issue.

01:37:34.000 I have a company.

01:37:36.000 I'm meeting with members of both sides.

01:37:39.000 This doesn't change without executive leadership.

01:37:41.000 It's just a factual statement.

01:37:43.000 I hate that health is political.

01:37:45.000 It's not.

01:37:45.000 It's bipartisan.

01:37:46.000 It is political in the next 40 days.

01:37:48.000 This will not change if this issue resonates. 1.00

01:37:53.000 If we believe that what's happening to our soil and to our bodies and to our kids' health is really the most important issue, it doesn't change without strong moral clarity and executive leadership, even if the person says stupid shit and tweets weird stuff. 0.99

01:38:08.000 Right, but even if they do get in office, this is my point, what happens? 0.99

01:38:12.000 Like, have you thought about this?

01:38:14.000 Like, the amount of money we're talking about these people losing...

01:38:18.000 Every single member of Congress.

01:38:21.000 Let me make this super clear.

01:38:23.000 I want everyone to understand this.

01:38:25.000 It's powerful, these interests, but we all know this.

01:38:28.000 I think we can feel this too.

01:38:29.000 They're not monolithic.

01:38:30.000 It's a paper tiger.

01:38:33.000 We can overcome this.

01:38:36.000 It's because there's not focus and marshalling of the American people and light on these things.

01:38:41.000 Every single member of Congress tells me, they said, the only thing that beats money is grassroots focus, is Americans focusing on the issue.

01:38:50.000 The most powerful issue in American politics actually aren't money issues, they're grassroots issues.

01:38:55.000 Guns, abortion, those aren't money issues. 0.97

01:38:57.000 Those are issues that people are focused on and vote on.

01:39:00.000 So what Trump and RFK are starting to do is really tie the foundation of Trump's candidacy, in my opinion, which is really taking the corruption out of the swamp.

01:39:10.000 And there's other issues.

01:39:11.000 Of course, we got to get the border right, you know, defense, economic agenda.

01:39:15.000 But health care is a glaring example of that.

01:39:17.000 Where there's been focus on the campaign and a promise of focus, you know, and real political, I think, validity in focusing on that because people are getting really fired up about this.

01:39:27.000 I can't express this enough.

01:39:28.000 Watch the rallies with RFK and Trump.

01:39:29.000 There's real visceral political focus on that.

01:39:33.000 So if that anger, right, if that same energy stream that's leading people to listen to your podcast and leading people to flock to Elon and leading, you know, leading to, I think people, frankly, to go back to church.

01:39:44.000 I mean, millennials are flocking back to religion.

01:39:46.000 I, like, Like, there's all these streams in society where people are kind of like trying to...

01:39:50.000 If leadership can channel that...

01:39:52.000 You know, these are paper tigers.

01:39:53.000 These are paper tigers. 0.77

01:39:54.000 But you need the president to say, F you, to these industries that are profiting from kids being sick.

01:40:01.000 And tell Congress, I'm giving you air cover.

01:40:03.000 Tell those lobbies to get the hell out of your office. 0.99

01:40:06.000 That's the message from the president.

01:40:07.000 With that leadership...

01:40:08.000 Now, are these powerful interests?

01:40:10.000 Is this the biggest industries in the country?

01:40:12.000 Right?

01:40:13.000 Are these the most powerful industries in the country?

01:40:15.000 Yes, but again, whatever Trump is tweeting, whatever he's saying, you have to just ask yourself, and this comes from a person who used to be an Ever-Trumper, like, who has the courage to stand up to these interests?

01:40:28.000 Who has the courage?

01:40:29.000 Does anyone think that Trump is afraid to put RFK, put Elon, put brave doctors in charge?

01:40:38.000 To put people that are distrustful of the military-industrial complex in charge of our military.

01:40:42.000 Like, does anyone think he's not going to do that?

01:40:44.000 Does anyone think he's going to really stand their way and not take some blowback from these industries?

01:40:49.000 He said this very clearly.

01:40:50.000 The biggest mistake of his last presidency was not trusting his gut.

01:40:55.000 Was listening to the list of people, you know, from the industry.

01:40:59.000 Well, it's also, I would imagine, and if I talked to him, my number one question would be, what happens when you get in there?

01:41:06.000 What is that experience like?

01:41:08.000 Because no one really knows until you're in office.

01:41:11.000 They don't tell you how it's going to go down if you don't make it.

01:41:15.000 They don't reveal all that.

01:41:17.000 So what is that experience like, and how can you prepare for it without actually being elected president?

01:41:23.000 So from my opinion, from my small vantage points, what happens is you get bombarded with complexity, right?

01:41:31.000 What the industries do, oh, you can't touch agriculture incentives even though they're broken.

01:41:35.000 That's going to hurt farmers. 1.00

01:41:36.000 You can't, you know, oh, the PBMs.

01:41:39.000 I'm hearing this all the time.

01:41:40.000 The PBMs and the insurance companies, all these players.

01:41:42.000 You have to have clarity of vision and an agenda, which President Trump and RFK are talking about, that's super, super clear.

01:41:49.000 It's like, we are going to get pharma funding out of the FDA. We are going to reorient with an executive order the goal of the NIH back to foundational research.

01:41:59.000 We are going to disallow people that make nutrition guidelines for kids to take money from Kellogg's.

01:42:05.000 Like, there's 30 things that you can do.

01:42:08.000 And I think what President Trump has talked about is like, let's stay high level.

01:42:12.000 We're not going to have nuclear war, right?

01:42:15.000 We're going to aggressively call out and push on major policy objectives to take the corruption out of the healthcare institutions to attack the incentive that every single healthcare institution in America today makes more money when a child is sicker for a longer period of time, just demonstrably.

01:42:30.000 Insurance companies, they make 15% by-law profit margin.

01:42:34.000 They want premiums to grow.

01:42:35.000 That's what's happening.

01:42:37.000 Pharma companies make money on interventions when people are sicker for longer periods of time.

01:42:40.000 Hospitals, as Casey talks about, makes money on interventions, does not make money when people are healthy.

01:42:44.000 Medical schools make money from the sick care system.

01:42:48.000 Just a clear-eyed set of objectives, I think it can fit on a small piece of paper.

01:42:52.000 What you do is you have a lobbyist come in and say it's complex.

01:42:56.000 There's just simple questions.

01:42:57.000 Why are we paying 10 times more for drugs than Germany?

01:43:00.000 Why in the United States is 10 times more expensive to buy Ozempic than in Germany or Scandinavia?

01:43:06.000 There's these simple, simple things.

01:43:08.000 You can do that.

01:43:09.000 Trump's talked about it.

01:43:10.000 Biden's talked about it.

01:43:11.000 It's bipartisan.

01:43:12.000 It's not free market that we're paying 10 times more than Germans. 0.92

01:43:14.000 We're the biggest buyer of drugs in the country.

01:43:15.000 Why are we subsidizing the rest of the world and subsidizing the pharmaceutical industrial complex?

01:43:19.000 That could be one stroke of a pen, right?

01:43:21.000 One stroke of a pen to Reset and say, no price setting, you can charge whatever you want, but we're not going to pay more than the Germans. 0.95

01:43:29.000 Charge whatever you want.

01:43:30.000 We have every right to do that.

01:43:31.000 That's one stroke of pen.

01:43:32.000 And then you get the blowback.

01:43:34.000 You get, oh, you're going to hurt innovation.

01:43:35.000 It's not our job to fund innovation for Europe.

01:43:38.000 Charge us the same price.

01:43:39.000 You're going to hurt, you're going to lead to drug shortages. 0.98

01:43:42.000 Well, F you.

01:43:43.000 Charge a higher price.

01:43:44.000 You can do, but it's literally just clear focus.

01:43:48.000 And I think Trump, he's talking about this.

01:43:52.000 He's seen it.

01:43:53.000 So, you know, to anyone kind of, and I've gone through this process, it's like, we know who he is.

01:44:00.000 But we also know that he's going to put good people in charge and not stand in their way and wants to be bold.

01:44:06.000 And there is the benefit of him having already been in and understanding all the red tape and all the problems and all the influences and all the stuff that he couldn't correct in four years.

01:44:17.000 I also just can't imagine like if what's Callie's talking about from the top is happening and putting voice to power to some of these things that people feel and people know if this is actually right now it is silenced at the top.

01:44:30.000 We went through four years of COVID without a single healthcare leader at an agency ever telling us to get on top of our metabolic health and how to do that ever.

01:44:39.000 And yet people were talking about it.

01:44:41.000 So if we are able to give voice at the highest level to these concepts, I just wonder also what that ripple effect through our country is going to be like when people are part of that tribe and can actually speak about it without the fear of being called...

01:44:58.000 Just totally alt-right, you know, crazy person for even talking about these things.

01:45:02.000 That grassroots momentum that I think could happen would be incredibly powerful, where we can all come together to work on this, because as opposed to it being adversarial with the top, it's connected to what the top is talking about.

01:45:16.000 We so believe, you know, parents don't want their kids getting sick.

01:45:22.000 We don't want to be sick.

01:45:23.000 We don't want to see our parents dying of Alzheimer's and cancer.

01:45:31.000 I think?

01:45:52.000 People don't want their kids to be eating this plastic meat in school, but Lunchables and Kraft Heinz and the USDA forged a deal that's now putting Lunchables in schools that serve 7 billion meals to children per year.

01:46:06.000 And doctors then don't get a single minute of nutrition education in 80% of medical schools. 0.92

01:46:12.000 You just imagine, like, we've got people who want to be healthy.

01:46:16.000 We truly believe that Americans want to be healthy.

01:46:18.000 And for the first time in many years, this could be an opportunity for that to be aligned with the country's vision and priority as opposed to adversarial to it.

01:46:30.000 Who's one of the co-founders of Who Kitchen talked about, if 5% of revenue of some of these big companies like Kellogg's and General Mills drops because people are no longer willing to buy these food because there's a real movement about it, they will change.

01:46:43.000 They will re-innovate towards what people actually want.

01:46:46.000 But right now, it's controversial to even push.

01:46:51.000 You exercise, you're far right.

01:46:55.000 You have to have so much strength to be healthy in this country.

01:46:58.000 And not only that, you have to have financial resources and strength, strength of courage.

01:47:03.000 And so he says, yeah, if people change their buying decisions, which I think will be easier to do culturally, If we are talking about these things on the highest level, then it's going to change.

01:47:16.000 I think a potential light-filled vision of what could happen is that some of these companies might adapt to consumer demand and do better processes.

01:47:27.000 We need to get back to American agriculture being regenerative agriculture.

01:47:32.000 We're totally screwed if we don't do that.

01:47:34.000 We cannot continue with this mass poisoning of our farmland.

01:47:37.000 Not only is it horrible for our farmers who are dying at astronomical rates from chronic disease, but it's terrible for our children and our bodies.

01:47:45.000 And if people start understanding that because people like RFK are in the leadership positions and that's becoming part of the zeitgeist It will change the way people buy and what they're willing to tolerate.

01:47:56.000 But right now, the norm, because of corrupt incentives in a rigged system, is to be unhealthy.

01:48:01.000 And I think when people get permission to push back against that, we could see an incredibly bright, beautiful future in a very short period of time in America.

01:48:11.000 We believe that's possible.

01:48:12.000 I believe it's possible, too, and I think it's incredibly cynical and unpatriotic to think that all Americans are lazy. 0.74

01:48:18.000 It's crazy.

01:48:20.000 We operate on momentum, and if you've lived your life eating bad food and being sedentary, you're going to continue to do so unless something jolts you out of that.

01:48:27.000 And if there's a moment in the zeitgeist Where a good percentage of people start shifting in a very particular direction taking care of themselves and the people around them see that and see the benefits and see these people improve and Then they become inspired to do it.

01:48:42.000 It could have a huge effect on the population There's a lot of Americans that are not lazy People want to live.

01:48:51.000 People want to thrive.

01:48:53.000 They want to be energetic.

01:48:54.000 They want to have health.

01:48:55.000 And they want to be successful in life.

01:48:58.000 And one of the best ways to be successful in life is to have more energy to pursue the things you're interested in.

01:49:02.000 And the only way you do that is if your body's healthy.

01:49:05.000 Many listeners are battling, surely, chronic conditions, diabetes, obesity, heart disease, etc.

01:49:11.000 I don't think any listener in their head wants to be sick.

01:49:15.000 I don't think any man wants to not walk their daughter down the aisle.

01:49:19.000 My mom wanted to be healthy.

01:49:21.000 She wanted to meet her grandchild, which she wasn't able to do.

01:49:23.000 I think there's this slur and this lie.

01:49:26.000 We are a free country.

01:49:28.000 We should have sugar-filled foods, right?

01:49:31.000 We should have beer.

01:49:32.000 Drugs should be legal.

01:49:33.000 But we should not be subsidizing Coca-Cola with food stamps.

01:49:38.000 This standard of care is wrong.

01:49:39.000 Like, after my awakening with Casey, I thought, what do I want to do with my life?

01:49:42.000 I started a company and it writes letters of medical necessity, doctor's notes, for food and exercise.

01:49:49.000 We realized something that nobody in the healthcare system knows.

01:49:51.000 Casey didn't learn this at Stanford.

01:49:53.000 I never, ever learned in medical school or residency that I could write a prescription for food or exercise.

01:49:57.000 It's totally legal.

01:49:59.000 And if you do that, it can be covered by...

01:50:02.000 You can use tax-advantaged dollars tax-free.

01:50:04.000 Never learned that in nine years.

01:50:07.000 So you mean you could use tax dollars to give people gym memberships?

01:50:10.000 Yes.

01:50:10.000 That is right now legal.

01:50:12.000 I never learned that.

01:50:13.000 It's called a letter of medical necessity.

01:50:15.000 Our company, TruMed, this year will do 500,000 gym membership recommendations from providers.

01:50:22.000 We initially got a lot of questions from the industry because they've never heard these letters of medical necessity.

01:50:27.000 We've walked in the law.

01:50:29.000 As much as Pfizer has tried, when I worked for Pfizer, the definition of medicine in the IRS tax code is not a synthetic pill made by a large pharmaceutical industry.

01:50:37.000 The definition of medicine is something that's recommended by a medical practitioner for the prevention, reversal, cure, mitigation of a condition.

01:50:43.000 The problem is that they've co-opted what medicine is in our brains.

01:50:48.000 And at Stanford Med School, nobody understands this.

01:50:49.000 So we've actually been educating members of Congress about this.

01:50:52.000 But there's $150 billion in these HSA funds.

01:50:55.000 And this is a message to everyone.

01:50:57.000 Our company's doing it.

01:50:58.000 But I would say it's much wider than that.

01:51:02.000 Go to your doctor and demand a letter of medical necessity when they're taking out the prescription pad for the statin, for the metformin, for the SSRI, right?

01:51:11.000 Study after study shows they have two courts of people.

01:51:14.000 They've got people that exercise and eat whole foods, and then they have people that do antidepressants and go to therapy.

01:51:21.000 The people that don't go to therapy, no drugs, but exercise and eat better food, demonstrably better outcomes in depression.

01:51:28.000 So I think where this all over hits the road, and this is an important thing, I think, from conservatives to liberals, it's not about lecturing Americans.

01:51:35.000 The answer is not lecturing Americans what to eat.

01:51:38.000 I mean, they're buying books, they're listening to Dr. Huberman, but a lot of people are on a health journey.

01:51:42.000 But with our clinical incentives, we should be incentivizing the clinically appropriate intervention for what health issues we're facing.

01:51:53.000 We are facing a chronic disease metabolic health crisis.

01:51:56.000 It's 9 out of 10 killers of Americans and 95% of medical spending.

01:52:00.000 So just clinically, and Europe is actually doing this, right?

01:52:04.000 If you have PCOS, infertility, in Europe, most countries, you get a subsidized keto diet because PCOS, which is the leading cause of female infertility, is insulin resistant.

01:52:16.000 It's basically on the diabetes spectrum.

01:52:18.000 And the most effective intervention, the most effective intervention to reverse PCOS and become more fertile is going on a 12-week keto diet.

01:52:26.000 Okay?

01:52:27.000 It spurs...

01:52:28.000 So what happens in the United States?

01:52:31.000 Doctors, good friends, and actually my good friend that I always reference is an OBGYN from Harvard now is educating his patients about this and we've had good conversations, but doctors from Harvard Medical School who are OBGYNs do not know when they're sitting across from a patient who's infertile what causes PCOS. It's immediate,

01:52:47.000 the standard of care, the standard of care is immediate jamming hormone pills down that woman's throat and on a quick route to IVF. IVF should absolutely of course be legal, but that's an invasive Procedure, right? 1.00

01:52:59.000 And no woman listening, I'm sure, who's going through the traditional medical system, and most, you know, women, many, it's an epidemic right now, PCOS, they're not told this.

01:53:08.000 They're not told this.

01:53:10.000 So the key in the policy here is opening up flexibility for Americans to work with their doctor to trust that they don't want to kill themselves.

01:53:21.000 Sometimes drugs might be the answer.

01:53:22.000 But we're way, way over-indexed on that right now.

01:53:26.000 Like, could you imagine what would happen if, you know, Americans who are pre-diabetic or their kids are obese had the ability, instead of the $1,600 that we're mandating for six-year-olds a month of government-funded money to get Olympic, if that could give mom the choice.

01:53:42.000 Give the mom the choice. 1.00

01:53:43.000 We would have a transformation of our food system.

01:53:46.000 And, yeah, so that's what I kind of decided to push on in my life, and really, every American, the most defiant thing you can do personally, 80% of people have an HSA and FSA account, and Max those out.

01:53:59.000 If you're battling a chronic condition or even trying to prevent a chronic condition, get your eight sleep, get your athletic greens, get your gym membership.

01:54:09.000 Talk to your doctor about it.

01:54:10.000 We want a revolution of people actually demanding.

01:54:13.000 Something Casey and I talk a lot about, acute versus chronic.

01:54:16.000 This is very important.

01:54:18.000 If you are about to die with an infection, a burst appendix, a gunshot wound, go to the doctor.

01:54:27.000 Go to the doctor.

01:54:28.000 Take pause on chronic.

01:54:31.000 Kids are being now kind of, you're anti-science if you don't get on those metformin statins, SSRIs, Ozempic.

01:54:36.000 The studies are kind of shaming those moms, these poor moms on Medicaid, single moms trying to make ends meet. 0.95

01:54:44.000 Medicaid is just a disaster.

01:54:46.000 We poisoned poor kids and then jammed drugs down their throat.

01:54:49.000 Moms don't know what to do. 1.00

01:54:51.000 We just have to incentivize and just ask that question.

01:54:55.000 And every patient should know, you have the ability to step back.

01:54:59.000 Your kid's not going to die tomorrow if they don't take the statin.

01:55:03.000 There's another route you can go.

01:55:04.000 We have a chapter Don't trust your doctor.

01:55:08.000 What is it?

01:55:09.000 Trust yourself, not your doctor.

01:55:11.000 But like, the evidence on chronic conditions.

01:55:14.000 On chronic issues.

01:55:14.000 Which is where they have abjectly failed.

01:55:15.000 They've failed.

01:55:16.000 Like, yeah.

01:55:17.000 Yeah, I mean, if you think about what's happened over the past 50 years, all of these chronic diseases are exploding.

01:55:21.000 And the more we medicate them, the higher the disease rates are.

01:55:24.000 Like, the more SSRIs we prescribe, the more depression we're getting.

01:55:28.000 The more metformin we're prescribing, type 2 diabetes rates are going up.

01:55:32.000 The more clomiphene we are...

01:55:35.000 Prescribing the more we're having to do IVF procedures.

01:55:37.000 It's not making sense.

01:55:39.000 The more hypertension, ACE inhibitors, beta blockers, the more hypertension's going up.

01:55:45.000 And so it doesn't really make sense that we would say, oh, they're crushing it on these diseases by prescribing more pills.

01:55:54.000 We're prescribing 221 million prescriptions for statins per year.

01:56:00.000 And heart disease is continuing to be the leading cause of death in the United States.

01:56:05.000 This doesn't make any sense.

01:56:07.000 And, you know, it's like Callie's saying, like, it is a free country and people should be allowed to make choice, but we don't need to pay for the bad choices for people, which is what we're doing.

01:56:17.000 We don't incentivize cigarettes for kids.

01:56:18.000 We're incentivizing sugar.

01:56:20.000 We're putting it in their school lunches.

01:56:21.000 We are also making those foods cheaper through the farm bills and through our complete and utter support, a $500 billion program, the farm bill program.

01:56:33.000 And it's all In terms of the crops, he's going towards commodity crops that are turned into ultra-processed foods and making them cheaper.

01:56:39.000 Less than 1% of the entire Farm Bill budget goes towards fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, legumes...

01:56:52.000 And truly, I mean, if people want to do something before the election, they're trying to slide the Farm Bill five-year extension under our noses right now.

01:57:00.000 They're trying to vote on that right now because they're trying to get it in before Trump gets in because they know Trump's going to blow stuff up.

01:57:05.000 If you want to call your member of Congress, take one minute, ask them to do food and You know, not have just government-funded OZIMPIC before fixing our food system, the Treat and Reduce Obesity Act, and tell them it needs to be a one-year extension on the farm bill.

01:57:19.000 This is happening right now.

01:57:20.000 I'm getting literally from heroes and members of Congress are asking me to talk about this.

01:57:25.000 They're trying to jam this farm bill that it's 90% subsidizes ultra-processed food ingredients. 0.65

01:57:31.000 I mean, we're...

01:57:31.000 Oh, more than that.

01:57:34.000 As a conservative growing up, I used to work for, you know, conservative think tanks used to pay us, too, along with the NAACP. Excuse me, we used to pay conservative think tanks, the pharma industry.

01:57:48.000 So we rig the system, and then we pay conservative influencers to say it's nanny state to question the rigged system.

01:57:54.000 Think about how screwed up that is, right?

01:57:55.000 We rig the system beyond recognition, tens of millions of dollars of lobbying spending to ensure that sugary drinks, that diabetes water is on food stamps, and then the moment you question that, You get attacked by the conservative influencers saying you're nanny state.

01:58:09.000 We are still in that situation.

01:58:11.000 We're waking up, and I think Trump's really realigned the parties to where when I grew up, you know, as a young conservative, it's like you trust the farmer, trust food without question, and it's totally against orthodoxy on the conservative side to question any corporation.

01:58:22.000 That's changed, which is a very good thing.

01:58:25.000 But you still have little remnants of that.

01:58:28.000 Fixing a rigged market is not an attack on the free market.

01:58:31.000 It's a necessity.

01:58:34.000 The pharmaceutical industry spends five times more on lobbying and public affairs than the oil industry.

01:58:39.000 There's five pharmaceutical lobbyists for every single government official.

01:58:44.000 The healthcare industry, just as the economics, is the highest funder of TV news.

01:58:51.000 They're the highest funder of politicians themselves.

01:58:56.000 Literally by far.

01:58:57.000 They're the highest spender on research.

01:59:00.000 They fund the regulatory agencies themselves, right?

01:59:04.000 They fund the NAACP and civil rights groups and weaponize issues like feminism, racism, and body positivity very strategically to get it to shut up.

01:59:13.000 They are just demonstrably, the healthcare industry is the lifeblood of every single institution that we trust in America.

01:59:20.000 And to question that is not an anti-state.

01:59:23.000 That's something Trump and RFK have kind of bashed through.

01:59:27.000 We need a reset.

01:59:28.000 We need to come together with the farmers.

01:59:32.000 You know, with the brave people in healthcare and have a reset.

01:59:35.000 And I would just ask you, does it feel like it's a marginal issue or does it feel like, you know, we kind of need to have almost a spiritual reset here?

01:59:43.000 And that's kind of, I think we can.

01:59:45.000 Like, if we keep focusing on this and keep pushing, I think we can really unleash what everyone wants, honestly.

01:59:52.000 Yeah.

01:59:52.000 I think it's also an information ripple effect and this is why it's so important to have people like you lay this out so clearly is that most people haven't heard it said.

02:00:02.000 I think you guys have said it as clearly as anybody I've ever heard and the message is so clear and it's so concise and then it gets out there.

02:00:11.000 This wasn't available five years ago.

02:00:13.000 It just wasn't.

02:00:14.000 I'd never heard it.

02:00:16.000 I didn't think that there was medical capture.

02:00:18.000 I didn't think there was a problem with the NIH before COVID. I had no idea that there was this prevailing issue.

02:00:24.000 I would have been the first person to defend vaccines.

02:00:27.000 I would have been the first person to defend the medical establishment.

02:00:30.000 They're working very hard to create drugs to help people with all these diseases, and we've got problems.

02:00:36.000 People are getting the information now in a way they've never gotten it before through the internet.

02:00:41.000 And I think because it's not regulated, I think that's one of the things that freaks these people out.

02:00:45.000 And that's why you have people like Bill Gates who have profited tremendously from vaccines.

02:00:52.000 And his global healthcare initiative, air quotes, that this guy would be so bold as to say we have to remove vaccine misinformation when what studies have been done on vaccines?

02:01:04.000 Like, you tell me, how clear are you when there is some sort of a correlation?

02:01:10.000 There's a rise in all these issues, and there's a rise in all these vaccines in children, and you're saying that the work has been done.

02:01:20.000 Show me that work.

02:01:21.000 Yeah.

02:01:21.000 Well, that work doesn't exist.

02:01:22.000 And that's why this medical misinformation label is fucking horseshit. 0.98

02:01:27.000 And it's scary that someone of great influence and extreme wealth would be promoting that when he profits off of it. 0.99

02:01:36.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:01:37.000 I mean, if all these medications were crushing it and there were no side effects, everyone should probably take them.

02:01:41.000 Yes!

02:01:42.000 Right?

02:01:42.000 But if that's not really the case, then we need to silence anything that talks about it.

02:01:46.000 Which is crazy.

02:01:47.000 I think COVID, obviously, as you've said, it broke something open.

02:01:50.000 It broke something open that I feel like is light because it's awareness.

02:01:55.000 And I was probably a little more cynical having been in the healthcare system going into COVID because I was raised as a young surgeon with the mantra, as a surgeon, you eat what you kill.

02:02:08.000 That is the unofficial mantra of the surgical world, which is that as a private practice surgeon, what you eat, i.e.

02:02:14.000 what your salary is going to be, is what you kill, how many surgeries you sell and book.

02:02:18.000 And so it was very black and white to me to understand that the financial security of everyone in the healthcare system is dependent on how much we actually do to people, how much we, you know, unfortunately, see these bodies essentially a box that we can either take things out of or put things in.

02:02:38.000 You know, surgery is taking things out.

02:02:41.000 Or put medications in.

02:02:42.000 It's very dark.

02:02:43.000 That's why I left.

02:02:44.000 That's why I literally just put down my scalpel because I was heading out of residency into private practice and I thought, I can't do this.

02:02:50.000 I can't.

02:02:51.000 That's crazy, right?

02:02:52.000 That this is like the business model of my industry because it's very personal.

02:02:57.000 You know, I had a really good friend who was with me in the hallway before taking a job as a cancer surgeon and, you know, tearful, saying, you know, I don't know if I can do this.

02:03:09.000 Like, when people come through the doors of the surgical oncology department here, they are going to get a surgery whether they need it or not.

02:03:16.000 Those are her exact words.

02:03:17.000 Oh, my God.

02:03:22.000 Every doctor I know is a good person, went into healthcare for noble reasons.

02:03:28.000 But if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

02:03:32.000 If that's what you know and that's what you can offer people, that is what you're going to offer people.

02:03:35.000 And especially with cancer, when people are hopeless and desperate and you have something you can do for them and it happens to be really profitable, this revolving door keeps happening.

02:03:48.000 You know, and then there's these, like, then just always getting back to systems issues, because that's where Callie and I really focus.

02:03:53.000 Like, you look at some of these things, like, that sound good on paper, you know?

02:03:57.000 And I think this is actually a lot what's happening with politicians, is they see these bills, lots of things coming across their desk, and they kind of sound good on paper.

02:04:04.000 It's going to be good for farmers.

02:04:05.000 It's going to be good for abs.

02:04:07.000 It's going to reduce obesity.

02:04:08.000 Sounds great, but the devil's always in the details.

02:04:10.000 You know, you look at what happened with...

02:04:15.000 We're good to go.

02:04:35.000 The easiest, by far, evidence-based way to make a patient healthier for a lower cost is to have them eat real food and exercise and go in the sunshine and sleep, right?

02:04:44.000 And manage their stress, obviously.

02:04:46.000 Not drugging them for life.

02:04:48.000 And unfortunately, even that...

02:04:50.000 That whole project got co-opted by industry because what happened was industry got their fingers in it and the quality metrics that doctors were going to have to report on to get that increased payment, instead of it being quality, good outcomes, being a healthier patient who reversed their disease,

02:05:09.000 quality, good outcomes was measured by how many of the patients in that doctor's practice were medicated on long-term medication therapy.

02:05:17.000 So a doctor, instead of saying, I reversed these 50 patients' diabetes and now they are non-diabetic, they would report that they had their patient panel on long-term diabetes medication and they were compliant with it.

02:05:29.000 That was a good outcome.

02:05:30.000 So even something that sounds good, Obamacare, value-based care, can get corrupted if we don't look at the details.

02:05:40.000 There's a new bill right now that's been introduced that's All about, you know, protecting farmers that's basically going to allow the EPA, which is totally bought off, to decide at a federal level whether these different pesticides are safe or not.

02:05:55.000 And so if the EPA says that a particular pesticide is safe, then state by state, it's going to be similar to the vaccines where people cannot sue for harm caused by pesticide injury if it's got the label that the FDA said it I think COVID broke something open that is good because it's basically giving people the

02:06:25.000 courage in the face of total There's a lot to clean up, and I think that just seeing it firsthand in the healthcare system, I have a little cynicism about it because of the way the incentives are in the business model,

02:06:44.000 but I think, like Callie said, with executive leadership, this could change rapidly.

02:06:47.000 It sounds complicated.

02:06:49.000 This can be unwound very quickly.

02:06:52.000 Nobody wants this.

02:06:53.000 You need executive leadership, strong executive agenda, and then strong legislative priorities.

02:07:00.000 And you need, with the executive agenda, to have transformational change eventually get to some real bipartisan.

02:07:06.000 But I would argue, just listening to what Casey's talking about in these systems issues, we all think, oh, we got to...

02:07:11.000 Who are the experts, the uncorrupted medical experts who can figure this out?

02:07:14.000 I think people like Elon Musk are much more important healthcare thinkers, systems thinkers.

02:07:19.000 We need systems thinkers to literally just start top-down looking at these agencies, looking at the web of incentives, and asking what is something that makes sense to spur American health and disease reversal.

02:07:29.000 We're like, we spend $4.5 trillion.

02:07:31.000 This is on Parson, right?

02:07:33.000 We spend $4.5 trillion.

02:07:35.000 It's growing at double the rate of GDP on basically managing Americans poisoning themselves.

02:07:41.000 It's like, how do we successfully use that money to reverse these trends?

02:07:46.000 It's actually when you get down to and start going down these rabbit holes, there's some major things you could do that are very dramatic.

02:07:51.000 And it does get to core bureaucratic, you know, change.

02:07:56.000 And you get to incentive change.

02:07:58.000 You get to reorienting the incentives of these industries.

02:08:00.000 And you get to eventually where all the money is, which is where are the subsidies going to and where are those $4.5 trillion of healthcare spend going to.

02:08:09.000 And you just have to demand that that follows the science and go to the right standard of care.

02:08:13.000 And frankly, again, I can't stress this enough.

02:08:15.000 Just let Americans choose.

02:08:16.000 Give the Americans the information.

02:08:18.000 Like, fearlessly.

02:08:19.000 Let's give them the information on diabetes.

02:08:22.000 Let's give them the information on obesity.

02:08:23.000 Let's give them the information on the 72 vaccines.

02:08:26.000 Let's give them the information on everything.

02:08:27.000 And trust that the American people aren't suicidal enough to just want to kill themselves.

02:08:32.000 We've infantilized the American people with our healthcare industry.

02:08:34.000 And I think there's actual cultural and spiritual ramifications from that.

02:08:38.000 We have told, the USDA says that it's dangerous to grow food in your backyard.

02:08:43.000 Right?

02:08:44.000 Literally, there's a war on whole food.

02:08:47.000 Bill Gates says it's pseudoscience, as you said, that, you know, trees help with global warming.

02:08:51.000 He's literally putting up sun blockers.

02:08:54.000 He's saying that it's anti-science to say that the future for developing country and feeding them is anything other than lab-grown meat and all to process food.

02:09:01.000 Like, we're in a bizarro world here.

02:09:03.000 We need moral clarity.

02:09:05.000 Do we need studies to tell us that regenerative ranching and more natural processes and not Raping our soil to where there's only 40 crop cycles left and trying to out-hack everything and spray poison over all the crops.

02:09:19.000 We just need to get back to basics.

02:09:21.000 I was just going to say, the immediate response to what Callie's saying is that's going to decrease access.

02:09:26.000 People are going to starve.

02:09:28.000 This is an equity issue.

02:09:29.000 People can't afford regenerative agriculture. 0.70

02:09:31.000 By design, right?

02:09:33.000 That is also a systems issue. 0.97

02:09:35.000 The fact that people can't afford that food is because we're subsidizing the shitty food.

02:09:40.000 So it's like, that's why at every level, you know, the immediate backlash to saying any of this is that, oh, that's elitist, classist, racist, whatever, you know, because not everyone can afford this.

02:09:52.000 But that is literally by design, and that could be changed as well.

02:09:56.000 Well, just think about these congressional meetings, and it's not a blink of an eye that that podiatrist, Representative Windstrup, Bill, Ozempic, $1,600, trillions of dollars in ratification, not even a blink.

02:10:09.000 He didn't even read the bill.

02:10:10.000 Of course we'll make this happen.

02:10:11.000 He didn't even read the bill.

02:10:11.000 And then we get lectured at the next meeting about how not poisoning kids is too expensive.

02:10:18.000 Or complicated.

02:10:19.000 How are we going to get the food there?

02:10:21.000 It's not complicated.

02:10:22.000 You know what's complicated?

02:10:23.000 Sitting a 12-year-old down once a week to get an injection for their obesity.

02:10:28.000 This is insane.

02:10:29.000 Like going to the pharmacy, having to pay for that, having to get the kid to accept the injection.

02:10:34.000 All the other comorbidities that kid is going to have because they're not addressing the root cause.

02:10:37.000 That kid's still going to be living in a toxic stew.

02:10:39.000 They're still going to have a totally challenged life. 0.66

02:10:43.000 Is that Ozempic going to go into their cell and somehow clear out the mitochondria of all the other toxic crap that we're still living in? 0.97

02:10:49.000 Absolutely not.

02:10:50.000 So it's like we are being gaslit.

02:10:53.000 We are being gaslit to think that for some reason the pharmaceutical approach Only legitimate science.

02:11:01.000 It's the only thing we should be passionate about.

02:11:03.000 It's the only thing that defies complexity or cost and silence on kids need to be outdoors playing.

02:11:11.000 Right now, the average kid in America is spending less time outdoors than a maximum security prisoner.

02:11:16.000 We should think about that.

02:11:17.000 The fact that the pesticides, the plastics, the sleep, all the things, and somehow that's all too complicated, but we can jam kids for life with a shot weekly for $690 a month.

02:11:28.000 There's no reason for this.

02:11:30.000 You just hear this and if it makes sense and you ask, how can this be undone?

02:11:35.000 This could be undone.

02:11:37.000 It's just because we haven't had focus on it.

02:11:40.000 But you can get this done in a year.

02:11:42.000 I truly believe that RFK and Trump will focus on this.

02:11:46.000 I think it's also something that truly should be a nonpolitical issue in terms of bipartisan.

02:11:54.000 It's like, I know they're labeling exercise, and I've seen them even label red meat consumption as being some sort of a far right thing.

02:12:02.000 And liking sunlight.

02:12:03.000 Right. 0.98

02:12:03.000 It's all horseshit. 0.98

02:12:05.000 And I think most people realize it's all horseshit. 0.99

02:12:07.000 It's not like the abortion issue. 0.98

02:12:09.000 It's not like immigration. 0.89

02:12:10.000 It's not like one of these things that people are ideologically captured to side on one side of the fence or the other.

02:12:16.000 I think it's a fundamental human thing that would resonate with most folks if it starts getting going.

02:12:22.000 Everyone wants this.

02:12:24.000 Everyone wants this.

02:12:24.000 I mean, again, we are idealistic, but this is a legacy issue.

02:12:31.000 It's not a partisan issue.

02:12:33.000 Again, I think that executive leadership, we have to be clear-eyed.

02:12:36.000 If we don't have moral clarity and people that are going to say, go away to these industries and have clear, level-headed thinking on what's actually happening, we're screwed.

02:12:46.000 But there are members of Congress and there's bipartisan appetite.

02:12:51.000 Again, we've been meeting with dozens of them.

02:12:53.000 I've been getting personal DMs from members of Congress.

02:12:56.000 On this journey, people are clamoring for answers here, and I do believe that a focus on chronic disease reversal can be a banner bipartisan initiative that will go down in history.

02:13:12.000 You know, I think in a history book, if we're still around in 100 years, we'll talk about this moment where we, I mean, the shame we'll have for what we did to kids on obesity, like childhood obesity.

02:13:23.000 There's no greater moral standard in our country.

02:13:26.000 It's like 3% in Japan.

02:13:27.000 It's like 50% of teens are overweight or obese here.

02:13:30.000 So just like, what are we doing?

02:13:32.000 And if we're not thinking about this, like, what are we doing with our time?

02:13:36.000 Right.

02:13:36.000 You know, I just really don't understand sometimes, but I think that that gets into some of the tech and the more cultural issues.

02:13:42.000 Like, we're so distracted.

02:13:44.000 And by design, right?

02:13:45.000 Like, we're so obsessed with, on our phones, We're good to go.

02:14:08.000 We're good to go.

02:14:38.000 It's obviously the beautiful sides to that, but also it's like we've totally lost our priorities and we're giving away our attention freely so that we're so distracted that we're missing the existential issues that are happening here now.

02:14:53.000 And I think that what Kelly and I really want to share is that...

02:14:57.000 There's a way to get back to, I think, deep fulfillment and genuine health.

02:15:03.000 But the chronic disease epidemic is just part and parcel with all of this because our brains and our bodies are basically getting destroyed.

02:15:13.000 And then it's a vicious downward cycle where if our bodies aren't strong and our minds aren't strong, we're actually less strong to be able to We're good to go.

02:15:26.000 We're good to go.

02:15:37.000 Easy to succumb to the phone that hits the dopamine or the drugs down the road.

02:15:42.000 I think you talked about this with Brigham, like you put the rats in a group and if they're in community and they have kind of that purpose of community, they're not going to choose the heroin water, right?

02:15:51.000 They're going to just choose the regular water, but that's why the food is so interlinked with all of it.

02:15:56.000 Like, I just look at the food we're feeding our kids and we're doing this because families feel strapped for time and money, you know, and that's a societal issue.

02:16:03.000 And we've also bought into this idea that both parents may be working all the time for women to have any value in society, which is insane, and forgotten that parenting is the most precious, incredible act we possibly could do, I think, as humans, and raising healthy, strong, critical-thinking people.

02:16:19.000 But because of all of these forces, we are just giving food to our families that is literally dead.

02:16:25.000 Ultra-processed food is dead food.

02:16:28.000 People don't really understand this.

02:16:30.000 Doctors certainly don't.

02:16:30.000 The second food comes out of the earth or is killed if it's an animal, it starts degrading.

02:16:35.000 That's just what happens.

02:16:36.000 And the food has tens of thousands of molecular components in it that work miraculously with our cells to generate health.

02:16:44.000 And right now, the average piece of food, I mean, 67% of our calories are ultra-processed food, totally dead, totally stripped of all those miraculous nutrients.

02:16:52.000 And the average piece of fresh food is traveling 1500 miles from the soil to our plates and is usually out of the ground for weeks.

02:16:58.000 So we are literally eating dead food that has lost all of its magic that is God-given for us to have cells that function properly.

02:17:07.000 And all of this is tied in to all these cultural societal factors that are being used against us to make us think that our priorities are basically just climbing the corporate ladder.

02:17:17.000 It's all interconnected.

02:17:18.000 And fundamentally, we need to just wake up and really focus on, again, get back to the core basics below all of this, above all of this, which is that our life is a miracle.

02:17:31.000 It is a miracle that we are here, that you're here, that I'm alive, that Callie's alive, that we're all here.

02:17:37.000 It is so insane that we get to have this experience and privilege to be alive once.

02:17:43.000 And to have these finite number of days.

02:17:47.000 And we're squandering that because we're distracted.

02:17:50.000 And we are allowing ourselves to live in fear.

02:17:57.000 When in fact we don't need to have fear.

02:17:58.000 Because we are these incredible, miraculous beings.

02:18:03.000 We're talking a lot about policy and it's really important, but I think a lot of this is going to come down to us having a reckoning in our families and our communities with ourselves of getting back to that higher level of like, Jesus Christ, we're alive.

02:18:16.000 This is insane.

02:18:18.000 And this body is our temple.

02:18:19.000 It's our one home.

02:18:21.000 And we're destroying it.

02:18:23.000 And that's not the best idea.

02:18:26.000 Like, we could actually be doing it differently.

02:18:28.000 We could be honoring it, respecting it, letting it produce the energy it needs to produce to be able to reach our highest purpose in this one lifetime.

02:18:36.000 And it's not that complicated.

02:18:38.000 And I don't understand fully.

02:18:40.000 I reflect on this every day with Callie.

02:18:42.000 Like, why are there dark?

02:18:44.000 Why are there forces that don't want that to happen?

02:18:46.000 I don't understand.

02:18:47.000 I don't know if it's just money.

02:18:50.000 Like...

02:18:50.000 Because it's big, right?

02:18:52.000 Like, everything we're saying is not the direction we're going in as a country, as a world.

02:18:57.000 And, you know, I don't understand that.

02:19:00.000 It feels like we have an opportunity to elevate consciousness here on this planet for future generations, and we're choosing not to, but we could make a different choice today, all of us, by...

02:19:12.000 By really digging deep into our spiritual strength and being bold right now.

02:19:21.000 I think now's the moment.

02:19:22.000 And it's above political.

02:19:23.000 There are political tactics that I think can help bring it to fruition, but fundamentally it starts with us, each of us individually believing that this life is a miracle and fighting for it.

02:19:33.000 Well said.

02:19:34.000 I think we might want to end it right there because that was so perfect.

02:19:37.000 Anything else?

02:19:40.000 Thank you.

02:19:41.000 Thank you.

02:19:42.000 Thank you guys.

02:19:42.000 Listen, this message is so important.

02:19:44.000 You guys lay it out so well.

02:19:46.000 And I think people are waking up.

02:19:49.000 I really do.

02:19:50.000 And I hope that this being connected to Trump doesn't put people off To the point where they're not able to recognize that this is about all of us.

02:19:59.000 It has nothing to do with political party.

02:20:00.000 It has nothing to do with ideology.

02:20:02.000 It's just about being a human being and that money and that the pursuit of constant money from these corporations has created this diffusion of responsibility thing where each person inside that organization doesn't feel responsible for the overall result.

02:20:17.000 And that they're not all bad people, and it's not demons running all these organizations.

02:20:22.000 They're people that have been captured by a system that's been captured, and it's all about money.

02:20:26.000 And that's why those people cheered when they found out that Ozempic was going to be prescribed for everyone.

02:20:30.000 Yeah.

02:20:31.000 Yeah.

02:20:31.000 So thank you very, very much.

02:20:33.000 Please tell people, is there, obviously your book, Good Energy, that's available.

02:20:40.000 Is there a way, do you guys have a website where people can reach out to as well?

02:20:44.000 Yeah, I'm at CaseyMeans.com.

02:20:46.000 I have a weekly newsletter that examines all of these things.

02:20:49.000 I'm also the co-founder of a company called Levels, which is part of this whole mission, which is to basically empower people.

02:20:56.000 We have democratized access to continuous glucose monitors so that people can actually understand their own metabolic health, because it's the most important aspect of our health.

02:21:03.000 And right now, that technology has been actually, by the healthcare system, been sequestered just to people who already have type 2 diabetes.

02:21:10.000 And the vision of the company is to help people Before they get these diseases to understand how their diet and their lifestyle are affecting their metabolic health by using these totally available, not very expensive sensors and pairing it with intelligent software.

02:21:22.000 So we've seen amazing things.

02:21:24.000 We've had people lose 120 pounds just by having awareness of what this disaster food is doing to our blood sugar.

02:21:31.000 So Levels.com, KCMeans.com, and then of course our book, Good Energy.

02:21:36.000 And I think the most important thing we can do today is steer our medical dollars to these root cause metabolic interventions like exercise.

02:21:42.000 We could do that right now with HSAs, FSAs, which is why I started TruMed.com.

02:21:46.000 Everyone listening should look at your HSA, FSAs.

02:21:48.000 You can go to TruMed.com, figure out how to spend that money if you qualify on real medicine.

02:21:54.000 If we can get our dollars to real medicine and away from waiting to get sick for pharma, we can do some major things.

02:22:00.000 And most people are doing their HSA contributions right now.

02:22:05.000 Inchronicdisease.org is something I set up.

02:22:07.000 It just connects you with your member of Congress with some scripts to talk about this.

02:22:10.000 I do think if people are compelled, we talked about the political.

02:22:14.000 There's a real spiritual level here.

02:22:16.000 And I think getting a little bit more involved, just calling your member of Congress for a couple minutes does make a difference.

02:22:20.000 So I'd urge that inchronicdisease.org.

02:22:23.000 Thank you.

02:22:24.000 Thank you.

02:22:24.000 Thank you both.

02:22:25.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 08, 2024

Joe Rogan Experience #2210 - Calley Means & Casey Means, MD

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Summary

Transcript