In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, Joe and Casey talk about how the pharmaceutical industry and food and drug companies are profiting from the opioid addiction crisis, and how our institutions are complicit in it. They talk about the dark side of Washington, D.C., and how we need to wake up to the fact that we are all complicit in the problem, and why we should be worried about it. They also talk about why it s so important that we wake up, and what we can do about it, and who needs to be held accountable for it. Joe also talks about how important it is to be on the right side of the political system, and the role of the media and political system in covering up the problem. And Casey talks about why we have to be worried that we don t have enough people to speak out against the drug industry and the pharmaceutical companies that profit off of the crisis. Check it out! The Joe Rogans Experience is a podcast by day, and Joe's podcast by night, all day. All day, Joe's Podcast by night. If you like what you hear here, you'll love it! -Joe Rogan Podcast by Night, All Day, by Day, All Night, by Night - by Night - Joe's Experience by Night. Joe's introduction to the podcast by Night Podcast by Day: Joe's Train by Day Joe's Journey by Night by Day by Night Joe's Episode on Opioid Addiction by Night: The Dark Side of Washington's Dark Side by Night (featuring Casey and Casey's Story by Casey's Unfiltered by Tucker and Tucker's New York Times Magazine's Tucker Day and Tucker Day, and more, and much more, click here to learn more about Casey's story on Tucker's new book, Tucker Day's new podcast, "Tucker Day's New Year's Day's Day" and more! , click here. , check it out on Tucker Day s new book "The Dark Side's New Day Podcast by Joe's New Years Eve's New Thing by Tucker Day by Casey Day's Book, , and more. - click here for the book, "The Devil's Work Podcast by Casey s New Day's Night's Day, The Good Life by Casey and I'm Too Effing Good Thing by Day's Story, click here and more... - and more - check out Tucker Day & I'll be back with you soon!
00:00:46.000Tell everybody your background, like how you got started with this.
00:00:50.000We were born and raised in Washington, D.C. And I thought being a good young conservative was supporting the pharma industry, supporting the food industry, defending those industries.
00:01:01.000I studied political science and economics and went on campaigns, but then was a lobbyist.
00:01:04.000Everyone bipartisan in D.C. goes to work for the food and the pharma industry.
00:01:09.000And on one morning, I'm working with the farm industry to literally steer money to the dean of Stanford Med School, who's a pain specialist, to be put on an NIH panel to say that opioids in 2011, that the issues around addiction were overblown.
00:01:23.000And we actually helped engineer an NIH panel to issue a report to say, opioids are okay, pain is a crisis.
00:01:31.000And then later in the afternoon, working for food companies, working for Coke, Steering money to institutions of trust, steering money to the NAACP to say that taking Coke off food stamps was racist.
00:01:42.000Coke soda today, to this day, is the number one item on food stamps.
00:01:46.000What I realized fundamentally is that we're profiting.
00:01:50.000The biggest industries, the biggest spenders in the country are profiting from kids, particularly getting addicted, sick, in fear, and then drugging them and profiting from that.
00:01:57.000What is the conversation like when you guys are formulating a strategy to try to pretend that opioids aren't a problem?
00:02:08.000This is really important for people to understand.
00:02:10.000The institutional design of the system, which was greatly impacted by Casey's awakening, is that it takes good people and gives them plausible deniability.
00:02:19.000Nobody's in those back rooms conspiring and trying to be an evil person.
00:02:22.000They're literally talking to these junior staffers like me about the scourge of pain.
00:02:27.000You know, and how we have to get this innovation of opioids to the American people.
00:02:31.000Now it's about obesity and trying to get Ozempic to 60 year olds, which is now the standard of care.
00:02:37.000In the rooms, it's about doing what's right and getting this innovation to the American people and everyone can kind of fool themselves.
00:03:03.000There's pings that's coming through in so many ways of people realizing this really isn't going the right direction.
00:03:10.000I think you see it with suicide rate among doctors, the burnout rate among doctors, the fact that every friend I have from Harvard Business School who went into the pharma industry, who went into the food industry, there's chronic rates of depression among elite business people.
00:03:24.000I think people are starting to realize this, but still, in these rooms, it's about doing the right thing.
00:03:32.000So it's just everyone's sort of captured by this thing and nobody steps out of the lines.
00:03:37.000I mean, the highest level, Joe, you know, I think we don't realize that there's a defining existential issue in our country where our major institutions have been captured.
00:03:47.000I think there's like pings of consciousness trying to alert us to this, like, you know, you having people on that are calling this stuff out, trying to ring the alarm bell and people flocking to this show.
00:03:58.000Iconoclasts from the military industrial complex, from the healthcare industrial complex.
00:04:03.000I think Elon being the richest person, the world's trying to sell us something.
00:04:06.000It's like, let's get resources to these people calling these things out.
00:04:25.000He represents, like, putting finger on something that's just not quite right with institutions.
00:04:29.000And I think the problem is we can't quite wrap our head around how bad it is and how so many people are complicit.
00:04:35.000But there's all these signs right now, and I think we're going to be brought to our knees if we don't realize this, that our institutions have been captured.
00:04:42.000Like, to me, healthcare, what Casey talks about, It's a really visceral example of something just not right with what's happening to food, what's happening to our kids' health.
00:04:51.000And I think it's happening to the military, too, or the military-industrial complex.
00:04:54.000Like, I'm truly worried that we're on the verge of almost a societal-level collapse with what's happening to our food, what's happening to our health, what's happening with the potential nuclear war.
00:05:03.000And I think we have people starting to realize this, and they're trying to, like, lunge out for it.
00:05:46.000Yeah, so just like Callie, you know, we grew up in D.C. I loved biology, went to Stanford Medical School, went on to do surgical residency and head and neck surgery, climbed the ladder, you know, do what every good medical student and resident is supposed to do,
00:06:01.000climb the academic ranks, publish papers, etc.
00:06:04.000And so I was heads down in that journey.
00:06:07.000And Just like Callie's saying, like with what I think is happening with the American people right now and really more globally, like there was something inside of me that was whispering and then speaking a little louder and then finally was a deafening call to me that like something is not right.
00:06:25.000Like I'm operating, I'm working eight hours a week.
00:06:27.000I'm operating, you know, two, three, four or five surgeries a day.
00:06:31.000And, you know, in some ways, I feel good about that.
00:06:34.000You know, people, maybe their sinusitis is a little better for a little while.
00:06:38.000But fundamentally, when you pop up for just a second, which they don't want you to do in healthcare, you know, everyone's working their tails off.
00:06:44.000But when you pop up for just a second and look around at what is happening to American health, children's health, health across the lifespan, as well as global health, it's a disaster.
00:06:56.000People will say that's alarmist, but I... You know, in trying to understand, like, why don't I feel right about my work, I just started looking at the data in a different way, and I started to look at what was happening with health trends.
00:07:08.000And if you just kind of run through the list of what's happening, it's unbelievable.
00:07:11.000Like, we are getting destroyed, and it's very recent, and it's accelerating.
00:07:19.00074% of Americans are overweight or obese.
00:07:22.00050% now of American adults have type 2 diabetes or prediabetes.
00:07:26.000These were diseases where there was 1% of Americans in 1950 had type 2 diabetes.
00:07:30.000Now it's 50% of Americans have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes.
00:07:33.000Alzheimer's dementia are going through the roof.
00:07:36.000Young adult dementias have increased like three times since 2012. So early onset dementias we're seeing You know, this one in two Americans are expected to have cancer in their lifetime now.
00:08:34.000And I could go through so many more diseases.
00:08:36.000Of course, we've got heart disease, which is almost totally preventable as the leading cause of death in the United States, killing around 800,000 people per year.
00:08:46.000And I think as I kind of just looked around, and again, these are just statistics, I started trying to put the pieces together.
00:08:55.000Why are these all going up all at once?
00:08:58.000And that led me on what is now a seven, eight year journey, ultimately leaving the surgical world, putting down my scalpel forever.
00:09:05.000Because what I realized is that when you go to the science with a root cause perspective, you go back to PubMed with a slightly different perspective, not how do I treat these diseases once they emerge, but why are they happening?
00:09:14.000You see a very obvious blaring answer, which is why we had to write a book about it, which is that it's all caused by metabolic dysfunction.
00:09:22.000A term that I never learned in medical school.
00:09:25.000I learned about metabolic syndrome and the different individual diseases that make it up.
00:09:31.000There is a fundamental breaking of our core cellular biology that is caused by our diet and the world we're living in, the modern world we're living in today.
00:09:41.000That is crushing the very way that the human body and our human cells can transmit food energy to life energy, to cellular energy.
00:09:53.000Fundamentally, because metabolic health is how we make energy in the body, The way that our environment is now synergistic to use during our metabolic health, and the science is very clear about this, it's basically like all of us are a little bit dead while we're alive.
00:11:13.000Our human health is simply a reflection of the destroyed ecosystem of our globe.
00:11:19.000The fact that we have forgotten that we're completely connected to nature and we're completely interdependent with nature, but the health crisis is simply a reflection of a destroyed ecosystem and humans have become So powerful and so technologically advanced and so connected in the recent decades that we now actually do have the power to both destroy the world and destroy our health.
00:11:44.000And the health is just the tip of the iceberg of a much bigger thing happening that is existential.
00:12:42.000Just having Marshall around can make my day ten times better.
00:12:45.000I'm sure you love your dog just as much and you want to do your best to help them live longer, healthier, happier lives.
00:12:52.000And a healthy life for your dog starts with healthy food, just like it does for us.
00:12:57.000There's a reason having a balanced diet is so important.
00:13:01.000So how do you know if your dog's food is as healthy and as safe as it can be?
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00:14:34.000I think one of the most disturbing things about it is how few people are speaking out when the data is so obvious.
00:14:41.000And then when you guys lay it out, and when people like Brigham Bueller, Andrew Huberman, when any of these people that are very focused on what the problems are lay it out, The data's all there, but yet we're not being told this anywhere other than the internet.
00:14:57.000It's only independent shows that don't rely on executives and networks where there's pharmaceutical drug companies advertising, or food companies, or any of these things.
00:15:09.000You don't hear any of this stuff, I mean, other than Fox News has allowed you guys on a few times, right?
00:15:47.000And every single disease is going down.
00:15:49.000Alzheimer's is now called type 3 diabetes.
00:15:51.000If you don't have prediabetes or diabetes, you have a very diminished chance of having Alzheimer's.
00:15:55.000And, you know, so it makes total sense.
00:15:57.000But somebody from Harvard Medical School that specialized in Alzheimer's, their entire course load, their entire training, their entire focus is on accepting Alzheimer's, that it's there, that it's growing, and then figuring out marginal improvements for it.
00:16:10.000There's literally people that are the highest educated people in the world do not even understand what causes these diseases.
00:16:15.000They're just accepting that and making the cures for them, the marginal treatments.
00:16:21.000And I would just say also, if you do step back and look at everything holistically, one of the biggest problems with the healthcare industry right now is that it's so siloed.
00:16:28.000We have over 100 different medical and surgical subspecialties.
00:16:31.000And the business model of American healthcare right now is volume.
00:16:38.000You don't get paid for outcomes, you get paid for volume.
00:16:40.000That has incentivized a structure of healthcare where it's most profitable to actually be seen by as many specialists as humanly possible, and that's what the average American is dealing with.
00:16:48.000They go to the primary care doctor with a list of issues and they get eight, ten referrals, and they spend their life going through the revolving doors of these different healthcare I'm just telling you this from sheer experience
00:17:45.00025% of women now are on SSRI. I mean, we're living in the wealthiest, safest country in human history, and 25% of people are on SSRI. That's insane.
00:17:54.000Then you go into menopause, perimenopause, that age group, and it's sort of brain fog.
00:17:58.000And then we have full-blown Alzheimer's going up.
00:18:00.000So we've got all these neurodevelopmental issues and neurodegenerative issues sort of across the lifespan.
00:18:07.000And then you look at kind of the hormonal side of things.
00:19:19.000Like, that's what these diseases, these buckets of diseases represent.
00:19:23.000And I think that's why I think it's, you know, we talked about, like, it's the tip of the ice.
00:19:27.000Health is the tip of the iceberg of fundamentally, like, a planetary issue.
00:19:32.000But, like, the planetary issue is the tip of the iceberg of what I think is really, really going on here, which is, like, a spiritual issue.
00:20:04.000We have the technology, the money, and the resources to fix all of this, the planet and health, and we're not.
00:20:10.000And that's why I think there's something darker happening on the consciousness level.
00:20:14.000And I think we could get our way out of this.
00:20:17.000I think it's going to be hard to get our way out of this.
00:20:20.000If we stick to like partisan politics and quibbling about individual policy ideas, I think it has to start with like, are we committed to life and to awe and to connecting with source and then listening and moving our way out of here?
00:20:37.000And if we choose not, which is what I think we're doing, I mean, I think there's huge light happening because that's why everyone's interested in this.
00:20:45.000That's why a lot of people are interested in this issue right now.
00:20:47.000But, like, if we don't, like, I do think we're on the road to existential disaster because we're that powerful now.
00:20:58.000Step one is us deciding, like, what choice do we want to make in this lifetime?
00:21:02.000Do we want to believe that life is a miracle, this universe is a miracle, our bodies are miracles, and we want to connect with God in this lifetime?
00:21:12.000We want to build and respect these temples that are interconnected with the earth to do that?
00:21:18.000And, like, that's the choice we have right now.
00:21:20.000And I think we have to take that very seriously.
00:21:23.000And I think a lot of the political stuff that's happening, Maha, it's all just a reflection of people who Wanting to find a way to fight for life and not knowing how.
00:21:33.000But on the biggest level, that's what I think is kind of happening here.
00:21:38.000And wanting life to make more sense than just this constant state of fatigue and constantly dealing with diseases.
00:21:45.000I want to talk about a couple specific things you said and questions like, why are girls going through periods so much earlier?
00:21:53.000Well, if you ask the New York Times, they'll write a headline that says, girls are going through puberty earlier, and no one has any idea why.
00:22:03.000And of course, that's because there's not a double-blind, placebo-controlled, peer-reviewed RCT in a journal that can exactly pinpoint the one reason why it's happening.
00:22:13.000But again, if we put the dots together...
00:22:16.000Which, of course, I'm going to be called not evidence-based for saying that.
00:22:19.000What's happening in our environment right now?
00:22:21.000So what drives early puberty is excess estrogens, right?
00:22:25.000We're pushing estrogens to basically spark that whole process of puberty.
00:22:49.000There's a billion metric tons of plastic produced on planet Earth since about 1907 when plastic was commercialized.
00:22:56.000And the interesting thing about plastic is that when it breaks down, it acts like a xenoestrogen, an exogenous estrogen molecule that can literally bind to our estrogen receptors and act like estrogens.
00:23:06.000So now we've got, you know, we've got, you know this, like we've got plastic F-ing everywhere.
00:23:11.000It's literally in the air we're breathing, the nanoparticles, it's in our food, it's in our water, it's in everything.
00:23:17.000And we've now found plastics in every human organ.
00:23:20.000So of course that's affecting our bodies and our young girls' bodies.
00:23:23.000It's actually affecting our bodies in utero.
00:23:25.000There was a recent study that was done that showed a hundred percent of placentas that were dissected had microplastics in them.
00:23:36.000So there are pesticides, actually, where their molecular activity is to increase aromatase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen.
00:23:46.000So atrazine, which is banned in Europe, but we spray 70 million pounds of it per year in the U.S., increases aromatase, which converts testosterone to estrogen.
00:24:04.000So China and Germany and other countries are selling us a chemical of which 70 million pounds are sprayed on our food, invisible and tasteless, which upregulates aromatase and converts testosterone to estrogen.
00:24:16.000And then you look at just the fat that we have on our bodies.
00:24:19.000So fat, and especially visceral fat, the metabolically active fat around our midline, that is a metabolically active organ that actually converts testosterone to estrogen.
00:24:29.000So we are living in this like wildly estrogenic It's an environment that is created by humans.
00:24:40.000And, you know, again, it's like, how would you even do this study, right, to show that?
00:24:46.000And yet, if you put the pieces together, it's very clear.
00:24:50.000Now, going to later life and talking about estrogens, we've got a huge percentage of American women on birth control pills.
00:24:55.000That's, of course, hopefully post-puberty.
00:24:58.000But we're putting women on exogenous estrogens For acne, for PCOS, for menstrual irregularity, sometimes, of course, for actual birth control.
00:25:08.000But it's very ubiquitous now in the environment.
00:25:12.000And it's like, when you kind of know this stuff, you're like...
00:25:18.000And then of course it's affecting boys too, right?
00:25:21.000You know, and so I kind of just think about this world we're living in where it's tons of estrogens.
00:25:26.000It's not like there's a bunch of exogenous testosterone, right?
00:25:29.000It's not like the plastics are also stimulating testosterone.
00:25:31.000So you've got these estrogens, then we're Barreled with sugar, and it's literally like it's in our kids' school lunches, the sugar everywhere.
00:25:38.000Sugar is driving the visceral fat in kids, which is turning estrogen to testosterone.
00:25:42.000So it's like we live in a world that's basically feminizing us, which for women, that's going to make puberty early.
00:25:58.000I think in a lot of ways it's depleting American vigor, right?
00:26:02.000Like we're living in this estrogen stew that's hard to get away from.
00:26:07.000This is where I think my experience ties, is that on the foundational level why this is happening, it's because these studies are all funded by the chemical companies, by the food companies.
00:26:18.000We've almost been, I think, misled by the experts when it comes to chronic conditions and when it comes to nutrition to take leaves of our common sense.
00:26:24.000Do we need to wait for a double-blind, placebo-controlled, human-randomized control study to know whether 0.5% of our brains being plastic is a good thing right now?
00:26:35.000Do we need to have a human randomized control 10-year study to know whether an herbicide like glyphosate that's being sprayed on almost all of our food and our children's food that people have to wear hazmat suits to spray and kills every single organism in sight?
00:26:53.000Just as the medical system is siloed, we've siloed all these questions and just taken leave of our common sense.
00:26:59.000Like animals in the wild, Wolves in the wild are not getting chronic rates of obesity, diabetes, metabolic dysfunction.
00:27:05.000We're born with an innate sense of knowing what's good for us, of knowing that the sun is good, of knowing that steak is good, that broccoli is good.
00:27:14.000The problem is we've been lied to by the professors at Harvard, at Stanford, at Tufts Nutrition School that I believe are essentially, from my experience, PR for the food industry and the pharmaceutical industry that accepts all these things as a given.
00:27:28.000I mean, Tufts Nutrition School, 80% of their budget is from food companies.
00:27:33.000You know, by our estimate, 50% of Stanford Medical School's budget comes somehow touches pharma.
00:27:38.000So just fundamentally, like, on the grassroots, like, micro level, these industries have co-opted our institution of trust and let us believe this.
00:27:47.000And you ask why we're the only people speaking out, because we've made it that evidence-based medicine really accepts All this disease growing and happening.
00:27:57.000And 95% of medical spending right now is on disease once it's happened.
00:28:13.000And then it's really just interesting where their emphasis is.
00:28:16.000Like, I was just reading the other day that California, the medical board, is checking the licenses of doctors, putting them under review if they write five vaccine exception notes.
00:28:24.000You literally are on the verge of losing your license.
00:28:27.000If you even go outside the orthodoxy on vaccines...
00:28:45.000The medical system knows how to focus on something.
00:28:48.000They know how to tell Congress that there's no cost too high for something.
00:28:51.000When it comes to pharmaceutical interventions, we're bankrupt in the country with interventions once people get sick.
00:28:56.000I truly believe, and this gets to the solutions and how I actually think this is an optimistic story, people waking up, why it's an existential kind of knife's edge we're on right now.
00:29:07.000The issue is that interest that profit from us being in fear, that just fundamentally is a statement of economic fact, profit from us being sick, profit from us being depressed, profit from us being infertile.
00:29:17.000They have co-opted our institutions of trust, and they've co-opted the clinical guidelines.
00:29:22.000Like, literally, when I was a junior employee, I helped co-file money to the American Diabetes Association, okay?
00:29:29.000The American Diabetes Association says that if you have diabetes, you don't need to worry about your sugar intake.
00:29:33.000They say it's not tied to food, right?
00:29:36.000The American Academy of Pediatrics right now is saying that if your child is overweight, slightly overweight, overweight, 12 years old, Dietary and infants don't wait.
00:29:45.000It says do not wait to see if dietary and infants work.
00:29:48.000It's now being studied on six years old.
00:29:50.000The American Psychiatry Association, right?
00:29:53.000The psychiatrist, the standard of care.
00:29:54.000If your child is a little sad, SSRI. Immediate intervention, right?
00:30:01.000SSRI rates have doubled among high schoolers in the past five years, right?
00:30:04.000If your child's a little fidgety, the standard of care, right?
00:30:07.000It's not asking whether they're in the sunlight, not asking if they're too sedentary, not asking if they're being forced-fed ultra-processed food, which would make any animal crazy if we subject them to what kids are subjected to.
00:30:28.000But they come in, and they get saddled with one skill, they get saddled with a bunch of debt, and then they're realizing this is a rigged system.
00:30:35.000Some people, few people unfortunately, had the courage like Casey to drop out.
00:31:12.000Anything that's not siloed Is considered not scientific, is considered wacky.
00:31:18.000They've called us the woo-woo caucus, talking about these nutrition.
00:31:22.000The medical system enforces this siloed view where diabetes, heart disease, depression, kidney disease, cancer, they're all separate things.
00:31:29.000If you have those conditions, you're seeing five separate doctors.
00:31:33.000That's very profitable, very problematic.
00:31:35.000So the solution Is truly just having the clinical guidelines of how diseases are assessed and how they're intervened changed to following the science, which is these are metabolic conditions.
00:31:49.000Ninety percent of the U.S. medical budget is tied to managing preventable and reversible lifestyle conditions.
00:31:56.000If we had people on Medicaid, instead of jamming with the statins, jamming them with Ozempic, jamming them with SSRIs, you know, lower income people were going bankrupt from Medicaid, $1.3 trillion, it's growing, it's a bigger part of the budget than the defense budget.
00:32:10.000If we literally just ask how do we have that money to spur thriving, to incentivize exercise, to incentivize healthier food for these folks, We'd be a transformed country.
00:32:18.000It's literally that simple, but it takes that moral courage.
00:32:21.000It takes Americans actually saying, no, I am going to go against the NIH. I am going to ask questions.
00:32:31.000Every single public health official in America said you were the enemy number one for talking about sunlight and talking about food and talking about healthy eating.
00:32:49.000Yeah, I think Callie's getting into something also that I think is part of the reason why...
00:32:54.000Fortunately, there are a lot of doctors speaking out right now, and I have so much gratitude for all the other, not only doctors, but NPs, DOs, chiropractors, nurse practitioners, all these amazing people who are speaking up and getting a lot of shit for it.
00:33:12.000This is a primal instinct to not break out of the pact and to not go against what The norm is.
00:33:20.000So I think in a lot of ways that we're dealing with like here is going to come down to like how courageous are we willing to be to move humanity back and by humanity very much also the earth's health because they're interconnected.
00:33:36.000How courageous are we going to be to stand up for that?
00:33:38.000Or are we going to let things slip through our fingers?
00:33:40.000And I think the tribe when I was in medical school like it's amazing Because of the interest and the fact that, you know, Stanford got a $3 million grant from Pfizer while I was there to revamp the curriculum and the fact that the American Diabetes Association that makes clinical guidelines is getting millions of dollars from Coke and Cadbury and the American Diabetes Association is getting millions of dollars from Mead Johnson that makes formula and Abbott Nutrition that makes formula and vaccine companies that make flu vaccines.
00:34:08.000Like the fact that the money, I mean, 8,000 major conflicts of interest were just reported at the NIH with food and pharma.
00:34:14.000So at every level, the medical guidelines that if you step out of, you are at risk for litigation as a doctor, and the NIH, this thing that we all respect, tons of conflicts of interest, and the medical schools accepting money,
00:34:30.000the tribe that then you become a part of as a trainee is a tribe that only hears one thing.
00:34:37.000And so I have a lot of compassion for doctors because I did go through medical school and not learn I think?
00:35:00.000Organ-specific physiology, pharmacology, and then in residency I learned how to do surgery.
00:35:05.000And then, of course, throughout the whole thing I learned how to bill.
00:35:07.000But that is ultimately, those are not the tools that actually generate foundational cellular health.
00:35:13.000You know, 80% of medical schools in the United States don't require a single nutrition course.
00:35:18.000And yet 90% of our healthcare costs are tied to diseases.
00:35:21.000The things that are torturing American lives are tied to food.
00:35:24.000And doctors, it's not a hammer in our toolbox.
00:35:27.000I didn't learn, you know, I didn't learn at Stanford Medical School that 95% of the people on the USDA Food Guidelines for America Committee had a conflict with the food industry.
00:35:37.000I didn't learn that there were 8,000 conflicts of interest at the NIH. I didn't learn that there are 8 billion tons of plastic on planet Earth that are degrading into estrogen analogs.
00:35:48.000I did not learn that there are 6 billion pounds of pesticides sprayed on our global food supply every single year, most from China and Germany, and that these are literally tied very strongly to Alzheimer's, dementia, cancer, obesity, mitochondrial dysfunction,
00:37:10.000You can, in an experimental setting, take a young, healthy person and subject them to sleep deprivation for five nights and they become pre-diabetic.
00:37:17.000Well, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic and type 2 diabetic and we're not sleeping well.
00:37:20.000And I didn't learn not one minute on sleep.
00:37:23.000So all the things and so many more, and of course, nothing about nutrition.
00:37:30.000You know, and Marty Macari talks about this, like, I certainly didn't learn that medical error and medication is the third leading cause of death in the United States.
00:37:38.000I learned that patient comes in and I need to label their diagnosis and give them a pill.
00:37:44.000When I speak of the tribalism, it's like I have so much compassion for doctors who feel stuck right now.
00:37:53.000The tribe that they're a part of has taught them a certain set of things.
00:37:56.000There are huge trillions of dollars of interest to make the things that they learn a specific myopic lens.
00:38:05.000And Putting together dots is risky because if you step outside the guidelines, you're at risk for intense litigation and potentially ridicule.
00:38:15.000I mean, I'm called pseudoscientific alt-right, you know, woo-woo caucus all the time.
00:38:22.000And I think that fundamentally this is again why it comes down to like this is actually more of a consciousness and spiritual issue because it's like we need to pray for courage.
00:38:31.000We need to sit down every morning and decide what we want for the future.
00:38:49.000Is our priority like our house and our mortgage and our boat and our comfortable life that's killing us?
00:38:54.000Or is it to elevate, to be stewards of the future and of the planet and to make some harder choices?
00:39:02.000And I think one thing I would just say, if there are doctors listening, and I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but this tribe on the other side that I think we're all in of promoting health, it's beautiful.
00:39:14.000And people are really healthy and happy.
00:39:17.000And it's not that hard, and it's not that expensive.
00:39:20.000And everyone is welcome here in this tribe of trying to move humanity towards more I think we need to break out of that sort of more...
00:39:57.000I don't think most people were aware of the problems in regards to the food system, in regards to pesticides, in regards to how people...
00:40:12.000I don't think they were really aware of that until about five or six years ago.
00:40:15.000I think it started to creep into the zeitgeist.
00:40:18.000I think before that people just put all their faith in doctors and then I think COVID happened and people lost a lot of faith in the medical system.
00:40:25.000They lost a lot of faith in the NIH. They saw all the contradictory videos of Fauci saying, you know, you're not We're not gonna catch COVID and Rachel Maddow and all that shit.
00:40:36.000And you're like, oh my God, this is all a bought and paid for system to promote profit.
00:40:41.000Yeah, I think Jamal talked a little bit about this, but I think it's so important because nobody realizes this.
00:40:48.000I think a lot of people listening to us years ago, it's just like, this sounds conspiratorial.
00:40:52.000And it's just like, what actually happened?
00:40:54.000And there's a couple like really important dates that happened that are historical that I think like set this structure really intentionally.
00:41:01.000The first was 1909, the Flexner Report.
00:41:04.000So literally John D. Rockefeller's personal lawyer wrote the report for Congress that It basically set the standard today for medical education.
00:41:12.000And it literally says in the binding guidelines that holistic health and nutrition and anything about interconnected to the body is pseudoscience.
00:41:20.000It says we need to name the condition and cut it out or prescribe it.
00:41:32.000A policy, I mean, we can get to policies, but like rescinding the Flexner Report and having updated scientific education and standard of care guidelines based on what we've learned since 1909 about the majesty of the interconnectedness of our body is a really good first start because we're binded under a law,
00:41:51.000just demonstrably, just like, again, not conspiratorial.
00:41:53.000John D. Rockefeller's personal lawyer He wrote this report.
00:41:57.000Because John D. Rockefeller is the father of the pharmaceutical industry and created pharmaceuticals from byproducts of oil production and was the first investor into Johns Hopkins and other major medical schools, University of Chicago, and started the modern education program for health.
00:42:13.000There were some big issues in the health of the Wild West, but he created Johns Hopkins and the standard of residency training As a way to silo diseases very intentionally and then prescribe his products and interventions as the top pharmaceutical maker.
00:42:29.000And the medical schools that he created were basically a distribution system to him.
00:42:34.000Okay, so you get to World War II. Up until World War II, around that time, the 1950s, 1960s, I would argue almost any medical miracle you can think of or any listener can think of was created before that time.
00:42:47.000You know, it's all acute situations, emergency surgical procedures, sanitation procedures, antibiotics to make an infection not deadly.
00:42:55.000Almost every medical miracle we can think of was something that was going to kill you right away, infectious disease, and then you take the pill or take the treatment for a finite period of time and you stop it or do the surgery quickly and you're cured.
00:43:09.000And we had a lot of good things happen up until World War II. Very intentionally, the medical industry saw the birth control pill in the late 1950s, 1960s.
00:43:19.000And the birth control pill was the first pill in world history that people took for longer than a couple weeks.
00:43:24.000It was the first pill ever that is like, oh, interesting.
00:43:27.000You can actually convince someone to take a pill for years, for almost most of their life, recurring revenue.
00:43:32.000And there was a huge emphasis of the medical industry to take the trust engendered up until 1960. RFK talks about this.
00:43:39.000We didn't spend money on chronic disease management.
00:43:55.000In the 1970s, literally the Sackler family, their grandkids and kids did the opioids, their forebearers created Valium.
00:44:06.000And 30% of women in the United States in the 1970s were on Valium.
00:44:10.000Time Magazine, Valium Nation, Mommy's Little Helper.
00:44:12.000So we started creating all these psychiatric conditions, we started medicalizing heart disease, we started medicalizing all these type 2 diabetes, started creating academic research totally funded by the pharmaceutical industry, saying that type 2 diabetes isn't reversible, that it's basically genetic,
00:44:28.000heart disease, all these things, and started pilling them, started pilling them.
00:45:24.000And they did two things very, very intentionally.
00:45:27.000They took over the institutions of trust to say ultra-processed food was healthy, and then they took their scientists and rigged the food itself to make it more addictive.
00:45:36.000Not to kill kids, but to make it more addictive.
00:45:38.000So you had that literal food pyramid, which said ultra-processed food is great, low-fat, carbs, base of the pyramid.
00:45:44.000That was constructed literally by the cigarette industry to promote their addictive products.
00:45:51.000And this weaponization of food, as I call it, it's not just like this conspiracy.
00:45:55.000Literally the cigarette industry, Those two companies, Philip Morris and Archie Reynolds, were the two largest food producers in the United States.
00:46:02.000Like 50% of American food were created by cigarette companies in the 1990s.
00:46:06.000And they have gotten us addicted and weaponized this food, and all chronic conditions have just shot up.
00:46:11.000It's because that ultra-processed food, literally, by tobacco industry scientists, hijacks our evolutionary biology.
00:46:18.000Again, you can't overeat grass-fed steak, but these food, with scientists much smarter than any of us, That's what they're doing.
00:46:26.000They're shutting off our society signals.
00:46:28.000The byproduct of this cheap, addictive food, which we don't even have research for yet, is that it's sprayed with all these chemicals.
00:46:34.000It's sprayed with 10,000 chemicals that are allowed in the United States when only 400 are allowed in Europe.
00:46:39.000All these chemicals to make the food addictive, to make the food cheap, you know, to do the monocropping.
00:46:45.000And we don't need to wait for the research on this.
00:46:47.000These chemicals, these neurotoxins, are destroying our cells, destroying our microbiome in ways we don't fully understand.
00:46:52.000So I just want to make clear to everyone, like, this has happened, like, very intentionally.
00:46:56.000Like, and it can be undone pretty quickly, too.
00:46:59.000But we have to realize this isn't a conspiracy.
00:47:01.000It's true corruption that happened deliberately.
00:47:07.000I would just add a few more, like, dates.
00:47:09.000Like, you know, I think one thing about the research, you know, we're one of the only countries in the world where the burden of proof for harm, like, we allow these chemicals to just enter our food system.
00:47:19.000We have 10,000 chemicals in our food system.
00:47:23.000Europe, only 400. Because they have to show that it's safe before they use it.
00:47:29.000And then, you know, only if there's issues that crop up do people have to do research.
00:47:34.000So, you know, there's this, like, ridiculous, G-RAS generally recognizes safe designation, which is essentially a company self-assesses whether the chemical that they are creating is generally recognized as safe.
00:48:22.000So basically, if the intended use is for food, you can synthesize almost anything you want and put it in food.
00:48:29.000We are being mass drugged and poisoned in our food system with 10,000 virtually unregulated chemicals, which have bought off papers saying that they are safe.
00:48:38.000I mean, you look at what happened with all the Monsanto litigation about non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.
00:48:48.000They ghost-wrote scientific papers saying that glyphosate is safe.
00:48:54.000So there's all this corruption in there where basically we have 10,000 unregulated chemicals in our food system and we're getting sick as hell, obviously.
00:49:01.000And then you've got the evidence-based people saying, well, we need to have a 10-year longitudinal study to show that glyphosate is causing XYZ disease.
00:49:10.000And it's like, obviously that's not the right approach because, first of all, It is the synergistic combination of all the toxins that are now in our environment that are leading to all these pleiotropic health issues.
00:49:28.000So we have to get our heads out of our ass and use our common sense and realize what's going on and not wait 10 years with these NIH-funded studies that are going to be corrupted.
00:49:38.000And I think So that's just one thing about the food chemicals.
00:49:43.000I just wanted to add to your point, Cal, some other dates.
00:49:47.000You look at the processed food emergence.
00:49:49.000Processed food really didn't start taking off until these mergers.
00:49:53.000There was a little bit of a start of it.
00:49:55.000Ultra-processed foods did not exist before World War II. And, you know, we needed to have shelf-stable food for soldiers and things like that that we could ship, and so there were maybe some good intentions there, but then there was an opportunity there that got seen.
00:50:09.000And we can also, you know, weaponize the feminist movement against, you know, oh, being in the kitchen, you're a slave, you know, your values outside the home, you need to climb the corporate ladder.
00:50:20.000Here, have this convenience food that we basically made for soldiers, and we're going to tell you that this is actually your liberation.
00:50:26.000So, of course, we got people not cooking.
00:50:28.000Families aren't eating together anymore.
00:50:31.000Kids are eating 67% of children's calories now are ultra-processed foods.
00:50:37.000These means foods that come from a factory made by food scientists.
00:50:50.000The 1970s, and we have the advent of high fructose corn syrup, which as Callie talks about, this preceded some of the mergers, but high fructose corn syrup is a weapon of mass destruction that basically food scientists use an understanding about hibernating animals,
00:51:05.000like bears, who fructose is one of the only types of calories where instead of making you feel satiated, it makes you more hungry.
00:51:12.000And this is evolutionarily, and we knew this.
00:51:15.000In the fall, when animals are preparing for hibernation and they start eating fructose-rich berries, they need to put on a ton of fat for winter.
00:51:24.000And so there's a feed-forward mechanism with fructose where it actually gets the bears to be hungry and even violent.
00:51:31.000To out-compete other animals to get as many berries as possible in a short period of time to lay 3D print fat for winter.
00:51:38.000So you have the scientists understanding this and say, hey, we can make liquid fructose a thousand times more potent than the fructose you'd find in berries.
00:51:46.000Same molecule, but in higher concentration.
00:51:52.000We're going to add it to children's school lunches.
00:51:54.000We're going to add it, obviously, to sodas.
00:51:56.000And we're going to make people insatiable.
00:51:58.000We're going to make their bodies and their brains think that they're preparing for winter that's never coming.
00:52:04.000And there has been research that shows that high-risk corn syrup is associated with violence, ADHD in kids, all of these different things.
00:52:11.000Just last thing I'll mention, flash forward, 1986, I think another very important date, which is the date when the litigation went through that said we couldn't sue vaccine manufacturers and the Vaccine Safety Act.
00:52:22.000That's a very important date in the whole history because it is one of the first times where we were able to pass legislation through Congress that said that pharmaceutical companies could not be sued for wrongdoing.
00:52:34.000They basically put together a little paltry little fund that people could apply to get no-fault reimbursements for vaccine harm, but you cannot sue the company.
00:52:45.000So you start to get companies being legally immune from wrongdoing, which has then accelerated, and they're now starting to try and push things like that for pesticides as well.
00:52:52.000So that's just some of the history of why we are where we are today.
00:53:39.000Richard Johnson from University of Colorado wrote Nature Wants Us to be Fat, and then David Perlmutter wrote Drop Acid.
00:53:46.000Both books are about a molecule called uric acid, which is unique to fructose metabolism.
00:53:53.000So when fructose is metabolized in the body, not like glucose, it creates uric acid, which creates oxidative stress and mitochondrial dysfunction in the brain and the body.
00:54:27.000And on top of that, the mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative stress when happening in the brain is what may inspire the violence and the ADHD and all that stuff to make the bears manic so they get as much berries as possible.
00:54:36.000This is what's happening in every kid in every classroom in America now.
00:54:40.000And so that's kind of some of the biology very simply about what's happening with fructose.
00:54:46.000So the apple is probably a bad example, but like cane sugar.
00:54:52.000Well, it generally is going to have sucrose, which is going to have some amount of glucose and fructose.
00:54:58.000But this is the thing about fruit, is that we have 40 trillion cells, and we have the ability to clear uric acid, and we have the ability to process fructose.
00:55:43.000But we can't clear all of it all the time, 24 hours a day, in 100 times the quantity of all these things together.
00:55:50.000And the research and the evidence-based thing and this cult of the science, they love to ignore that.
00:55:57.000The idea of synergistic effects of this Of this overwhelming breaking of our cellular resources is just conveniently forgotten because we study things in isolation.
00:56:08.000That's literally the definition of how a double-blind placebo-controlled study happens.
00:56:13.000It's one variable and one thing that you're testing.
00:56:42.000It recognizes the unison and the interconnectivity of why we're getting sick can't be studied through a double-blind placebo-controlled study.
00:56:50.000You actually have the FDA that's basically created.
00:56:51.000You saw this with the recent MDMA decision.
00:56:54.000It's basically rigged that the only thing that can be approved through the, you know, top way we study things and approved drugs is a synthetic pill.
00:57:04.000That's the only thing that it can basically lead to through a double-blind placebo-controlled study.
00:57:08.000It's like with vaccines, it's like, yeah, I bet that one vaccine probably isn't causing autism.
00:57:12.000But what about the 20 that they're getting before 18 months?
00:57:16.000Like, we don't look at it in synergistic, you know?
00:57:21.000And this is where the cult of the science, and I say the science specifically because science is beautiful, using the scientific method and using that way of inquiry into the natural world is a beautiful art.
00:57:33.000But weaponizing Papers that are often bought for or corrupted.
00:57:42.000And, you know, the leaders of some of our key medical journals have actually even said that 50% of scientific research that publish ends up being wrong.
00:57:49.000So it's bought for, corrupted, or wrong.
00:57:54.000And one interesting trend that we're seeing in our world is that if we do choose to put dots together or use our intuition, our God-given intuition...
00:58:06.000Anything other than this particular way of examining things, you are dangerous.
00:58:14.000And I think that that's something we need to really question.
00:58:16.000You know, I think, especially as a woman, like, and I'm thinking about having kids soon, I'm like, thinking about like, wow, like, I have the ability in my body to build a human, 3D print a human, pull in a soul to that human.
00:58:33.000I don't need a peer-reviewed study or a textbook to tell me how to do that.
00:58:36.000Our body and our intuition and our minds and the subtle things happening inside us are important.
00:58:43.000We have now been told that you can't trust it and you are dangerous if you do that.
00:58:48.000And I think that's one of the reasons why I think parents are very frustrated right now is because Parenting, I'm not a parent yet, but you know, Callie is, but like, you know, when we're being told now that parents are the enemy for using their own judgment about their families and kids, like, I think that's probably, it's deeply frustrating to people.
00:59:05.000And that's basically what we're being asked to do.
00:59:23.000Because I was reading this article that was saying that it was before the advent of seed oils.
00:59:28.000You very, very, very rarely saw it, if at all.
00:59:31.000No, it's been exploding like every single other chronic condition.
00:59:34.000I'll just quickly go in ties to Casey's point you just made.
00:59:37.000This year in 2024 is the highest rates in American history of Alzheimer's, cancer, autoimmune conditions, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, kidney disease, autism.
00:59:49.000Every single chronic disease you can think of is at an all-time high growing at an increasing rate as we spend more money to treat those conditions.
00:59:56.000So, I think one point we're trying to make is that all the NIH, all the FDA, it's all on accepting that trend as a given.
01:00:07.000It's totally washed their hands of it.
01:00:09.000And how do we find marginal pills to make this a little bit better, not asking why?
01:00:13.000And that question about Alzheimer's, the point we're trying to make, is that when it comes to chronic conditions, which Alzheimer's is, You have to really not ask the Alzheimer's question.
01:00:22.000You have to ask why that's one branch on this tree, obesity, right?
01:00:27.000And we talk about, and I think Casey has this amazing framework, you can literally look at five biomarkers, the biomarkers of metabolic dysfunction, HDL, triglycerides, blood sugar, blood pressure, and your waistline.
01:00:41.000If we fired every single researcher and canceled every single grant in the U.S. government for all chronic disease research and all nutrition research and created all policy to maximize those five biomarkers in America, you by definition don't have type 2 diabetes.
01:00:57.000You almost have a zero percent chance of getting heart disease.
01:01:00.000You have very close to zero percent chance of getting Alzheimer's.
01:01:06.000Literally, you go down every single chronic condition that is torturing American life.
01:01:10.000If you're diabetic, you're four times more likely to be depressed or suicidal because there are cells in our head and diabetes is cellular dysregulation.
01:01:18.000So, like, literally, I'm not – like, on the research and the science thing, You know, I think there's great heroes who've been, you know, getting into the weeds on the research, but chronic disease is interconnected to basic lifestyle factors.
01:01:33.000I think this is a political issue, honestly.
01:01:34.000Every American needs to ask, is this an incremental issue where we need slightly better pharmaceutical interventions and slightly better research?
01:01:58.000Like, if you believe what Casey's saying about these statistics about chronic disease, and you actually look at the math that we're growing two times with healthcare spinning the rate of GDP, it's the largest and fastest growing industry in the country.
01:02:10.000The fastest growing industry in the United States is not AI. It's not tech.
01:02:14.000And as it grows, we get sicker, fatter, more depressed, more infertile.
01:02:19.000It is going to bankrupt the country, and it's not slowing down.
01:02:21.000So if you actually believe this, believe we need a new paradigm, is it about getting better research, or is it about actually saying the research is wrong, this whole paradigm of seeing chronic disease in silos is wrong?
01:02:31.000So I'm sure you can talk more about Alzheimer's, but it's interconnected.
01:02:34.000Yeah, no, I think the point about incrementalism versus radical is the question we need to be asking ourselves.
01:02:40.000And so in terms of Alzheimer's, so I think something really interesting framing is that the brain, you know, it's only 2% of our body weight, but it uses 20% of our body's energy.
01:02:52.000And there's been this theory with Alzheimer's of like, oh, it's the plaques in the brain.
01:02:56.000It's the tau and the tangles and the beta amyloid and all these things.
01:03:00.000And so we thought, okay, well, if we can get rid of those with a drug, like maybe it'll improve.
01:03:05.000But no Alzheimer's drugs really work meaningfully.
01:03:08.000And more recently, there's been this understanding of like, okay, metabolic dysfunction is definitely going up.
01:03:13.000We know metabolic syndrome and diabetes are going up.
01:03:15.000And the brain uses 20% of the body's energy.
01:03:18.000And something that's happening in the body, like diabetes, is also happening in the brain.
01:03:23.000Chris Palmer talks about this in such an amazing way in his book, Brain Energy.
01:03:26.000But like, we've somehow decided to separate the brain from the body as if they're different things, when in fact, they're all just made of cells.
01:04:17.000You've got now 30% of teens with prediabetes.
01:04:20.000You've got middle-aged people now 50% with prediabetes or type 2 diabetes.
01:04:25.000Of course, that's also creating an energetic deficit.
01:04:27.000So this neurometabolic, neuroenergetic theory of Alzheimer's, maybe with these cells crying out for health, Help.
01:04:36.000Maybe some of these plaques that we're seeing are actually a protective mechanism.
01:04:39.000The brain actually laying down almost like protective shielding.
01:04:43.000It's a response to an underlying metabolic issue as opposed to the problem itself.
01:04:49.000But of course, in our paradigm, we're like, we just got to get rid of that symptom of the problem.
01:04:53.000When in fact, actually, if we could unencumber the brain to be able to make energy properly, make good energy properly, that's why our book is called Good Energy, they would actually be able to heal itself and to have the power to do its work, which is cognitive thinking.
01:05:09.000I was just going to say, an amazing book about Alzheimer's.
01:05:13.000That just hasn't gotten as much attention as I think it should as Dale Bredesen's book, The End of Alzheimer's, because he talks about when you really look at the research, there are about 36 different biomarkers and factors.
01:05:24.000I think he calls them like the 36 holes in the roof of what creates, like if it's raining and you plug one hole, your house is still going to be filled with water.
01:05:32.000You have to plug all 36 holes to prevent or reverse the We're good to go.
01:05:54.000And there was an amazing Lancet paper from a couple years ago that showed that if we just got on top of some of the basic modifiable factors of our metabolic health, we could slash Alzheimer's rates from happening.
01:06:05.000So, you know, I think, yeah, fundamentally it's one more branch on the tree that is rooted in this metabolic dysfunction in our body, which is fundamentally rooted in three processes that uniquely really hurt the brain, which is oxygen stress, mitochondrial dysfunction, and chronic inflammation.
01:06:21.000These are the three hallmarks of metabolic dysfunction.
01:06:24.000And the brain is so sensitive and such a complex, high processing power organ that these core cellular disturbances that make up metabolic dysfunction, which are caused by our environment, and cannot really be addressed with drugs, mitochondrial dysfunction,
01:06:40.000oxidative stress, chronic inflammation, they're showing up so prominently in the brain.
01:06:45.000I'll just say like there's kind of just a question with all we're hearing about these diseases.
01:06:49.000Is the reason Alzheimer's is skyrocketing because we don't have enough research and don't have enough drugs?
01:06:55.000Is the reason obesity rates are skyrocketing on kids because we don't have enough drugs or not enough research?
01:07:00.000That's the argument that's being given to us.
01:07:03.000After the lessons of COVID, which the COVID lockdowns and what the pharmaceutical industry did with their co-option of our government with COVID was the most significant public policy mistake in American history, at least since World War II. In modern times, I think we can all agree on.
01:07:17.000We are still saying, and it's just people, I think, because we trust the medical system still so much, we are literally thinking societally that That the fact that there's an obesity crisis among six-year-olds is a drug deficiency issue.
01:07:31.000Like, it's a dark, I think, blind spot in our culture right now.
01:07:37.000The reason why I brought up Alzheimer's, there's a couple reasons.
01:07:40.000One, the amyloid plaque research, wasn't that proven to be flawed, like, deeply and maybe even corrupt?
01:07:48.000And then there was another, there's something that came out very recently.
01:09:35.000Over 100 NIH-funded Alzheimer's and Parkinson's research papers contain completely made-up data according to new allegations.
01:09:41.000Billions in funding and years of research now in serious doubt.
01:09:46.000So with Max, actually, with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, with Marty McCary, Chris Palmer, a number of voices, we're engaging members of Congress.
01:09:57.000We're talking, you know, to helping whatever we can with RFK and Trump's leadership on this.
01:10:02.000But I had a somewhat out-of-body experience that kind of hits on what you're getting at.
01:10:07.000I was sitting across from the member of Congress, and I think it's the exact same issue on obesity, who introduced this Treat and Reduce Obesity Act.
01:10:17.000It has 150 co-sponsors, and it's to jam government-funded ozempics.
01:10:44.000And then Medicaid, right, it's six years old.
01:10:46.000It's now being pushed for on six-year-olds.
01:10:49.000The second this bill is signed, $1,600 per patient per month, taxpayer money, which is why Novo Nordics is the ninth most valuable company in the world right now, this Danish company expecting 90% of their profits from the United States on expectation of this bill's passage.
01:11:09.000And I bring up a simple question of, Why is this one-size-fits-all jamming Ozempic into the average American's arm instead of opening up flexibility to potentially explore regenerative food or exercise or incentivizing those things?
01:11:23.000It's not even fully anti-drug, but what clinician said this is the cure?
01:11:29.000Because it's not opening up any money for food or exercise or any other modality that could actually cure the root cause of obesity.
01:11:35.000And he looked at me fully, fully serious and said I'd never thought of that.
01:11:41.000And I told them that it's being pushed on kids and that there's an aggressive effort where Dr. Fatima Cody-Stanford, the top obesity researcher at Harvard, was funded significantly by Novo Nordics and millions of dollars in research grants and went on 60 Minutes where the top funder of 60 Minutes is pharmaceutical companies and said obesity is a brain disease and a genetic.
01:12:15.000I go, you understand, based on the J.P. Morgan estimates, Where they literally presented the estimates of increasing obesity rates at the JP Morgan conference in San Francisco.
01:12:25.000And all the investors clapped like seals, standing ovation.
01:12:29.000Standing ovation as they presented a chart on rising obesity rates showing that as Olympic increases in prescription rates, obesity in the United States will increase.
01:12:46.000And of course, you know, more than 50% of the people that even have insurance funding for it go off of it within six months because it's the highest rate of side effects of any mass drug prescribed in American history.
01:12:58.000And he looked at me in the eye, the person who introduced this bill that is going to be one of the most expensive bills in American history, the market cap of the ninth most valuable company, the most valuable company in Europe.
01:13:08.000They passed LVMH, the fashion company.
01:13:10.000The most valuable company in Europe rests on this bill.
01:13:12.000This is the guy that essentially wrote it.
01:13:27.000The corruption is you have Brad Winstrup.
01:13:32.000If somebody wants to do something, if we want to change the world, email members of Congress, email Brad Winstrup, call his office, and say, we think before we jab six-year-olds with Ozempic, we should fix our food system.
01:13:43.000This thought literally didn't occur to him.
01:13:45.000So what's happening with this corruption, what's happening with obesity, with Alzheimer's, Is the corruption is like, it doesn't even get to people even understanding.
01:13:55.000The boiling frog, it's just so, it's just obviously we're just going to find a drug, not ask why people are getting Alzheimer's.
01:14:01.000Obviously we're just going to jam 60-year-olds with those Zempic and not ask why people are getting obese.
01:14:05.000And then, you know, I literally get talking points in the room as he starts thinking about it.
01:14:10.000It's like, what's happening now is hard.
01:14:11.000Like going to a playground with my two-year-old son and seeing every kid clearly having issues, clearly dealing with obesity, like 60 years old, you know, seeing processed food all over the playground.
01:14:20.000Like what's happening now, poisoning ourselves en masse is pretty hard.
01:14:26.000If Dr. Fauci in 2020 said COVID has strong metabolic links and we need to harden up our immune system, it's a problem.
01:14:32.000We're dying three times at a higher rate than the Japanese per capita.
01:14:35.000That's 16% of all COVID deaths are in the U.S. and we're like 4% of the population.
01:14:40.000This is a warning sign for our immune system.
01:14:42.000We need to shift the healthcare budget to getting fit, to incentivizing exercise, to fixing and talking to Will Harris and other regenerative farmers and consulting them on how to transform our food system, seeing that the medical system has co-opted what drugs are and what medicine is.
01:14:58.000It's nothing short of a moral blind spot that food and exercise aren't seen truly as drugs, that they aren't seen as interventions from the $4.5 trillion we spent on medical systems.
01:15:09.000The Italians are three times less obese and diabetic than us.
01:15:13.000I don't think the Italians, you know, are more vigorous.
01:15:16.000I don't think Americans are lazier than Italians.
01:15:18.000Like, there's something systemic happening where they spend three times less per capita on healthcare and two times more per capita on food.
01:15:25.000And they're living eight years longer.
01:15:48.000I met with Nancy Pelosi two weeks ago.
01:15:50.000Looked her in the eyes because we've been helping RFK, helping Trump and we should talk about that.
01:15:57.000I think there's a really, really important societal dynamic happening with that unison.
01:16:00.000But I'm preparing as much as I can to foster this bipartisan conversation.
01:16:05.000I can tell you, everyone in the room, right, like, is horrified by the statistics.
01:16:11.000But every time, their staffers are slithering behind them.
01:16:15.000And the healthcare staffers in Congress are waiting for their next job with the pharma industry or the insurance industry, and they really drive the place and make the bills.
01:16:22.000But a real problem with the corruption is these people making policies, literally chairs of healthcare committees.
01:16:29.000The simple ideas you're talking about and we're trying to express on metabolic health on this simplicity really of why we're getting sick, it's not being like corruption is like leading them to deny it.
01:16:39.000It's like they just do not understand.
01:16:41.000Like these meetings we're doing and this hearing we did with Max and Brigham and others, Julian Michaels and so many great people, it literally was giving these ideas to these members of Congress for the first time.
01:16:53.000You know, there'll be a lot more on this, but it's so simple, but literally letting your lawmakers know.
01:16:58.000I hear two things again and again from meeting with over 40 members of Congress.
01:17:02.000It's like, I don't understand this, I don't know this, and my phone's not ringing off the hook.
01:17:05.000If I go against pharma, they're getting all the old people to call and say, don't kill me.
01:17:09.000Like, like, like, like, to me, this issue, what's why this issue is becoming so resonant is because we're all feeling and I think it's actually we're hitting on the most important issue in the country.
01:17:17.000I think it's why everyone's flocking to books on this issue.
01:17:22.000Like, why your podcast is the number one podcast.
01:17:25.000I mean, I consider you I've learned more about metabolic health and healthcare listening to guests on your show than I think Casey's probably learned at Stanford Med School.
01:17:31.000So it's like people left to their own devices are flocking to this and we need to channel, we need to make a statement with our politics.
01:17:38.000This is unfortunately a political issue.
01:17:40.000So you were one of the people that helped sort of broker the deal with RFK and Trump and bring the two of those together.
01:18:04.000She died 12 days later, just totally surprisingly.
01:18:07.000And Casey and I, on her grave site, literally hugged each other and said, we want to write a book and we want to make this and evangelize this, inspired by you and others.
01:18:15.000We want to evangelize this and add to the chorus to prevent what's happening because so many Americans are on this pharmaceutical treadmill and then the cancer is random.
01:18:23.000Like all these warning signs that were missed with my mom, her pre-diabetes, her high cholesterol, her high blood pressure, those were pilled, not seen as gifts to get to the root cause.
01:18:33.000And then she was chopped down by cancer.
01:18:38.000And we've been on the path as best we can with companies and evangelizing.
01:18:42.000And through these amazing podcasts like Tucker, we got connected with people.
01:18:46.000So got to know RFK, got to know Democrats, and got to know the Trump campaign.
01:18:51.000And in the past year, I will say this, the Trump campaign has been extremely interested in the policy of why kids are getting so sick.
01:19:00.000And if you go back a year ago, President Trump actually at rallies to loud applause has been talking very similar points to RFK. So we got to know RFK. Sitting watching the first assassination attempt, I had like a spiritual, what I can call it kind of out of body experience.
01:19:21.000The fact that he was getting up to 20% of the vote highlighting this issue, tapping in, I think, to this consciousness and tapping into this stream that you're tapping into, I think it really showed something.
01:19:34.000Actually, it sounds very woo-woo, but I was in a sweat tent with him in Austin at a campaign event six months before, and I just had this strong vision of him standing with Trump and how what RFK represents is actually what Trump represents and actually what almost every American's feeling,
01:19:52.000which is this frustration and this rigged This thing that doesn't quite feel right that you can't quite put your finger on.
01:19:59.000And it was so clear to me that how RFK talks about health personifies this overall kind of institutional capture.
01:20:08.000It makes it real for people in a really visceral way because it's clearly impacting their kids.
01:20:14.000Pick up the phone, called him and just urged him, you know, as a supporter, as a lowly supporter, to consider maybe this is the time as President Trump put his fist up, you know, with all this momentum.
01:20:24.000There's rare moments in history where the deck can change.
01:20:28.000And I really felt and he felt like this could be a realignment of American politics because that moment felt very heavy after the assassination.
01:20:35.000So we went back and forth and he's like, let me talk to him.
01:20:40.000So I worked with Tucker and we connected them that night.
01:20:43.000And here's the key point I want to make for my small vantage point here.
01:20:51.000And there was not a discussion of polling.
01:20:55.000There was not a discussion of the horse race and how this would impact the race.
01:20:58.000These were tear-filled conversations about why kids are getting so diabetic, about why we have such obese children in the United States, about why we have a fertility crisis.
01:21:08.000This was a true connection of these two men and a true deep bond, which I think you're seeing out there on the campaign trail, that this transcends politics and Trump wants this to be a generational issue for him.
01:21:27.000I think the two most existential issues are nuclear war or what's happening to our health.
01:21:33.000And whatever you think, and I used to be a never-Trumper.
01:21:37.000Watching him care about this issue, watching what's happening with the RFK, watching what's happening of how that's resonating with voters, seeing from my small vantage point inside, there is tremendous connection of these two men and moral clarity of seeing what's happening.
01:21:55.000And my question is this, and to anyone kind of considering voting in this election, Trump is going to say stupid shit.
01:22:04.000There's two important questions to ask.
01:22:06.000Who sees this corruption and institutional capture that's going to destroy our country, I think, to an existential level?
01:22:13.000And who is willing to suffer that blowback?
01:22:16.000Who is willing to go up against these military-industrial complex, the healthcare-industrial complex, the education-industrial complex that's making us a non-competitive system?
01:22:38.000That, to me, is the foundational question.
01:22:40.000And I do consider this the most important election of my lifetime, watching these two men, because it is so genuine.
01:22:48.000And there is like a genuine desire to truly transform, to see our broken corruption and institutions for what it is, and really, truly, I think, prevent nuclear war and dramatically reverse Our health crisis.
01:23:06.000Trump has said that his one big mistake last time was personnel, was that the pharma and the ag slithered in and gave him the list of names.
01:23:14.000Everybody should ask, do you think RFK is going to have an influence on those names based on what Trump has said?
01:23:40.000Be on the verge, I think, of a health population collapse, societally destabilizing event unless true executive leadership sees this corruption and this issue for what it is and says we need a radical transformation in how we see agriculture and how we see health,
01:23:58.000And every single member of Congress I meet with, including Democrats, Say that in order for this issue to get done, we need a president to make this the priority to talk because that gives us air cover and there could be transformational change if a president does that.
01:24:10.000So that's what I've seen from being in this.
01:24:12.000And I can tell you, President Trump has kept every promise to RFK and deeply cares about this issue.
01:24:18.000It also seems like if this isn't done now, they will take steps to make sure it can never be done in the future.
01:24:26.000Look what they're saying about free speech.
01:24:34.000The free speech comes from the rigging of the scientific research.
01:24:38.000Bill Gates said this week that we need immediate AI to scour the internet and take any vaccine misinformation out of the internet automatically on any format, any private webpage.
01:25:58.000There's a war right now between incrementalists And radical change.
01:26:03.000We are living in a great time, but we have existential threats.
01:26:06.000And the question before everyone in this very important election is, do we need more incrementality, or do we need a fundamental rethink of some of our major systems?
01:26:16.000I really think that's what's before us.
01:26:18.000And as Casey said, I think we're in a good period of history right now, certainly, but we're facing, I think, more existential threats that I really think we don't fully appreciate.
01:26:30.000This is a it's such a unique time and it seems like without a person that's a total outsider like Trump that's being so attacked the fact that they it's not just that they disagree with him they attack him is that they do it in unison they do it so coordinated that you realize there is a machine behind this and that they repeat the same talking points over and I mean it's like they're given a script and That there's no repercussions for lies.
01:26:58.000With the Russiagate stuff, with all the various different things that have been concocted to try to take him out, no one gets in trouble and the same people are still disseminating the news.
01:27:08.000And more people, I think, are aware of that than ever before and more people are aware of this institutional capture.
01:27:16.000And I think this is why the freedom of speech issue is actually so important and so existential, because the thing that gives me hope right now, like, this all sounds dark, but we're both extremely optimistic.
01:27:27.000But if the ability to talk about these issues is taken away, that is when I would lose hope, right?
01:27:33.000Because the fact that, you know, independent media Is the most listened to form of media on planet Earth right now.
01:27:56.000People understand that there's a problem.
01:27:58.000Like we see this every day and, you know, Twitter has its issues and whatnot.
01:28:03.000But like people are talking and connecting from around the world to try and Figure out how to solve these issues that we all know on some level in the quietness of our heart are a really big, big deal and that the time is now.
01:28:18.000And if that gets taken away, I worry about what's gonna happen.
01:28:23.000Well, and it is getting taken away in some formats.
01:28:26.000There was something, I believe I retweeted it, see if you can find it, about YouTube taking down a podcast for medical misinformation.
01:29:18.000It may be obvious, but I don't think people realize this.
01:29:22.000The reason there's such a fight against you is because it's this 100-year change of information sources where the biggest issues in the country can no longer dictate what the information sources are.
01:29:35.000When I worked for Pharma, the advertising budget, all the stuff you hear about how much they spend on cable news and 50% of TV news spending is Pharma, it wasn't to impact consumers.
01:30:06.000It was like, we're going to pay off all the news so we have a direct line.
01:30:10.000So if you're paying 50% and a huge funder of all the tech companies' ads, their ad companies, then you've got a direct line.
01:30:22.000And then you've got the Harvard study.
01:30:24.000So when you have the Harvard study that's fully funded by pharma or the food industry, like the food industry, processed food spends 13 times more on foundational nutrition research than the NIH, but even the NIH is really conflicted saying that lucky chums are healthier than beef, literally.
01:31:04.000Restrictions on childhood nutrition, on federally funded school lunch programs, which is the top source, one of them, of calories for young kids.
01:31:11.000If you take sugary cereal like Lucky Charms off that, you're going against the science.
01:31:15.000You're going against the NIH. You can't be asking for farm fresh eggs.
01:31:55.000I think one of the things that we keep highlighting that I think is very important is that most people are not even really aware of this.
01:32:02.000This is very new to most people in the zeitgeist of the common person, the common person who's just trusted their physician and trusted the medical establishment.
01:32:11.000I think this requires a real shift in consciousness of people and a real understanding of what's going on.
01:32:18.000But there's pings of that consciousness happening.
01:32:22.000That's why I think the leadership is so damn important here, Joe.
01:32:26.000It's like when this stuff is under the shadows and when the FDA is able to lobby to fund the organization that's supposed to regulate it, when the USDA is lobbying, excuse me, when food companies are lobbying You know, to have the USDA not have any conflicts of interest.
01:32:41.000When these things, there's not a tension on them, and Americans aren't being explained, this, like, mass corruption that's compromising all of our scientific guidelines and standard of care, where $4.5 trillion of incentives flows to.
01:33:06.000I think RFK standing on the stage with Trump and them grasping hands and saying make America healthy, I think it was one of the biggest political realignments and important moments in American history.
01:33:51.000When RFK starts talking about the CDC needing Dr. Jay Barshari on there and the FDA, You know, and the NIH and starts naming those agencies and starts saying we're going to get to the bottom of why our food for our kids is poison and we're going to reverse childhood chronic disease by taking on this corruption.
01:34:39.000And that they're good people, and if we can get this corruption out of the way, that he's staying in the way of this corruption, and we can unleash the American people if we get this corruption out of the way.
01:34:49.000What he has tapped into is the defining political trend of our lifetimes, this populist uprising that's happening throughout all the world.
01:34:56.000He has tapped into that in a very powerful way.
01:34:59.000He's talked for a long time about pharmaceutical corruption and these issues.
01:35:16.000You just need to put, truly, as a first step, put Dr. J. Bashari at the CDC, right?
01:35:21.000Put someone who's not trying to get their next job at pharma, who's aligned with this fundamental agenda at the NIH, at the FDA, at the HHS. And then have people like Elon.
01:35:31.000Elon's saying he wants to run government efficiency.
01:35:33.000He wants to look at how government's performing.
01:35:36.000HHS is the largest and the most expensive department in all of government.
01:35:42.000What if someone like Elon, people like Bill Ackman who joined this cause, what if they were given an executive order to analyze the HHS, To against the goal of promoting health and thriving and disease reversal for the American people.
01:35:57.000You have the smartest people in the world doing that.
01:36:02.000If you can learn what the pharma has known for the past 30 years, that co-opting our institutions with trust, everything else is downstream of that.
01:36:10.000There's nothing upstream in culture or trust of those agencies, because where do we go about that?
01:36:47.000If you, just with a swipe of a pen and leadership, just demand, day one, that the NIH goes back to population-wide, fearless studies about why we're getting sick.
01:36:57.000We literally need the NIH only asking that question, why are we getting sick?
01:37:01.000What variables are tied to chronic disease?
01:37:04.000Have you anticipated what kind of backlash and how this would be handled?
01:37:09.000Like, what kind of backlash would you get from these captured institutions if this did happen, if Trump and RFK get into office and they start implementing these policies and changing things and bringing new people at the helm?
01:37:48.000This will not change if this issue resonates.
01:37:53.000If we believe that what's happening to our soil and to our bodies and to our kids' health is really the most important issue, it doesn't change without strong moral clarity and executive leadership, even if the person says stupid shit and tweets weird stuff.
01:38:08.000Right, but even if they do get in office, this is my point, what happens?
01:38:36.000It's because there's not focus and marshalling of the American people and light on these things.
01:38:41.000Every single member of Congress tells me, they said, the only thing that beats money is grassroots focus, is Americans focusing on the issue.
01:38:50.000The most powerful issue in American politics actually aren't money issues, they're grassroots issues.
01:38:55.000Guns, abortion, those aren't money issues.
01:38:57.000Those are issues that people are focused on and vote on.
01:39:00.000So what Trump and RFK are starting to do is really tie the foundation of Trump's candidacy, in my opinion, which is really taking the corruption out of the swamp.
01:39:11.000Of course, we got to get the border right, you know, defense, economic agenda.
01:39:15.000But health care is a glaring example of that.
01:39:17.000Where there's been focus on the campaign and a promise of focus, you know, and real political, I think, validity in focusing on that because people are getting really fired up about this.
01:39:29.000There's real visceral political focus on that.
01:39:33.000So if that anger, right, if that same energy stream that's leading people to listen to your podcast and leading people to flock to Elon and leading, you know, leading to, I think people, frankly, to go back to church.
01:39:44.000I mean, millennials are flocking back to religion.
01:39:46.000I, like, Like, there's all these streams in society where people are kind of like trying to...
01:40:13.000Are these the most powerful industries in the country?
01:40:15.000Yes, but again, whatever Trump is tweeting, whatever he's saying, you have to just ask yourself, and this comes from a person who used to be an Ever-Trumper, like, who has the courage to stand up to these interests?
01:41:40.000The PBMs and the insurance companies, all these players.
01:41:42.000You have to have clarity of vision and an agenda, which President Trump and RFK are talking about, that's super, super clear.
01:41:49.000It's like, we are going to get pharma funding out of the FDA. We are going to reorient with an executive order the goal of the NIH back to foundational research.
01:41:59.000We are going to disallow people that make nutrition guidelines for kids to take money from Kellogg's.
01:42:05.000Like, there's 30 things that you can do.
01:42:08.000And I think what President Trump has talked about is like, let's stay high level.
01:42:12.000We're not going to have nuclear war, right?
01:42:15.000We're going to aggressively call out and push on major policy objectives to take the corruption out of the healthcare institutions to attack the incentive that every single healthcare institution in America today makes more money when a child is sicker for a longer period of time, just demonstrably.
01:42:30.000Insurance companies, they make 15% by-law profit margin.
01:43:12.000It's not free market that we're paying 10 times more than Germans.
01:43:14.000We're the biggest buyer of drugs in the country.
01:43:15.000Why are we subsidizing the rest of the world and subsidizing the pharmaceutical industrial complex?
01:43:19.000That could be one stroke of a pen, right?
01:43:21.000One stroke of a pen to Reset and say, no price setting, you can charge whatever you want, but we're not going to pay more than the Germans.
01:43:53.000So, you know, to anyone kind of, and I've gone through this process, it's like, we know who he is.
01:44:00.000But we also know that he's going to put good people in charge and not stand in their way and wants to be bold.
01:44:06.000And there is the benefit of him having already been in and understanding all the red tape and all the problems and all the influences and all the stuff that he couldn't correct in four years.
01:44:17.000I also just can't imagine like if what's Callie's talking about from the top is happening and putting voice to power to some of these things that people feel and people know if this is actually right now it is silenced at the top.
01:44:30.000We went through four years of COVID without a single healthcare leader at an agency ever telling us to get on top of our metabolic health and how to do that ever.
01:44:41.000So if we are able to give voice at the highest level to these concepts, I just wonder also what that ripple effect through our country is going to be like when people are part of that tribe and can actually speak about it without the fear of being called...
01:44:58.000Just totally alt-right, you know, crazy person for even talking about these things.
01:45:02.000That grassroots momentum that I think could happen would be incredibly powerful, where we can all come together to work on this, because as opposed to it being adversarial with the top, it's connected to what the top is talking about.
01:45:16.000We so believe, you know, parents don't want their kids getting sick.
01:45:52.000People don't want their kids to be eating this plastic meat in school, but Lunchables and Kraft Heinz and the USDA forged a deal that's now putting Lunchables in schools that serve 7 billion meals to children per year.
01:46:06.000And doctors then don't get a single minute of nutrition education in 80% of medical schools.
01:46:12.000You just imagine, like, we've got people who want to be healthy.
01:46:16.000We truly believe that Americans want to be healthy.
01:46:18.000And for the first time in many years, this could be an opportunity for that to be aligned with the country's vision and priority as opposed to adversarial to it.
01:46:30.000Who's one of the co-founders of Who Kitchen talked about, if 5% of revenue of some of these big companies like Kellogg's and General Mills drops because people are no longer willing to buy these food because there's a real movement about it, they will change.
01:46:43.000They will re-innovate towards what people actually want.
01:46:46.000But right now, it's controversial to even push.
01:46:55.000You have to have so much strength to be healthy in this country.
01:46:58.000And not only that, you have to have financial resources and strength, strength of courage.
01:47:03.000And so he says, yeah, if people change their buying decisions, which I think will be easier to do culturally, If we are talking about these things on the highest level, then it's going to change.
01:47:16.000I think a potential light-filled vision of what could happen is that some of these companies might adapt to consumer demand and do better processes.
01:47:27.000We need to get back to American agriculture being regenerative agriculture.
01:47:32.000We're totally screwed if we don't do that.
01:47:34.000We cannot continue with this mass poisoning of our farmland.
01:47:37.000Not only is it horrible for our farmers who are dying at astronomical rates from chronic disease, but it's terrible for our children and our bodies.
01:47:45.000And if people start understanding that because people like RFK are in the leadership positions and that's becoming part of the zeitgeist It will change the way people buy and what they're willing to tolerate.
01:47:56.000But right now, the norm, because of corrupt incentives in a rigged system, is to be unhealthy.
01:48:01.000And I think when people get permission to push back against that, we could see an incredibly bright, beautiful future in a very short period of time in America.
01:48:20.000We operate on momentum, and if you've lived your life eating bad food and being sedentary, you're going to continue to do so unless something jolts you out of that.
01:48:27.000And if there's a moment in the zeitgeist Where a good percentage of people start shifting in a very particular direction taking care of themselves and the people around them see that and see the benefits and see these people improve and Then they become inspired to do it.
01:48:42.000It could have a huge effect on the population There's a lot of Americans that are not lazy People want to live.
01:50:29.000As much as Pfizer has tried, when I worked for Pfizer, the definition of medicine in the IRS tax code is not a synthetic pill made by a large pharmaceutical industry.
01:50:37.000The definition of medicine is something that's recommended by a medical practitioner for the prevention, reversal, cure, mitigation of a condition.
01:50:43.000The problem is that they've co-opted what medicine is in our brains.
01:50:48.000And at Stanford Med School, nobody understands this.
01:50:49.000So we've actually been educating members of Congress about this.
01:50:52.000But there's $150 billion in these HSA funds.
01:50:58.000But I would say it's much wider than that.
01:51:02.000Go to your doctor and demand a letter of medical necessity when they're taking out the prescription pad for the statin, for the metformin, for the SSRI, right?
01:51:11.000Study after study shows they have two courts of people.
01:51:14.000They've got people that exercise and eat whole foods, and then they have people that do antidepressants and go to therapy.
01:51:21.000The people that don't go to therapy, no drugs, but exercise and eat better food, demonstrably better outcomes in depression.
01:51:28.000So I think where this all over hits the road, and this is an important thing, I think, from conservatives to liberals, it's not about lecturing Americans.
01:51:35.000The answer is not lecturing Americans what to eat.
01:51:38.000I mean, they're buying books, they're listening to Dr. Huberman, but a lot of people are on a health journey.
01:51:42.000But with our clinical incentives, we should be incentivizing the clinically appropriate intervention for what health issues we're facing.
01:51:53.000We are facing a chronic disease metabolic health crisis.
01:51:56.000It's 9 out of 10 killers of Americans and 95% of medical spending.
01:52:00.000So just clinically, and Europe is actually doing this, right?
01:52:04.000If you have PCOS, infertility, in Europe, most countries, you get a subsidized keto diet because PCOS, which is the leading cause of female infertility, is insulin resistant.
01:52:16.000It's basically on the diabetes spectrum.
01:52:18.000And the most effective intervention, the most effective intervention to reverse PCOS and become more fertile is going on a 12-week keto diet.
01:52:31.000Doctors, good friends, and actually my good friend that I always reference is an OBGYN from Harvard now is educating his patients about this and we've had good conversations, but doctors from Harvard Medical School who are OBGYNs do not know when they're sitting across from a patient who's infertile what causes PCOS. It's immediate,
01:52:47.000the standard of care, the standard of care is immediate jamming hormone pills down that woman's throat and on a quick route to IVF. IVF should absolutely of course be legal, but that's an invasive Procedure, right?
01:52:59.000And no woman listening, I'm sure, who's going through the traditional medical system, and most, you know, women, many, it's an epidemic right now, PCOS, they're not told this.
01:53:10.000So the key in the policy here is opening up flexibility for Americans to work with their doctor to trust that they don't want to kill themselves.
01:53:22.000But we're way, way over-indexed on that right now.
01:53:26.000Like, could you imagine what would happen if, you know, Americans who are pre-diabetic or their kids are obese had the ability, instead of the $1,600 that we're mandating for six-year-olds a month of government-funded money to get Olympic, if that could give mom the choice.
01:53:43.000We would have a transformation of our food system.
01:53:46.000And, yeah, so that's what I kind of decided to push on in my life, and really, every American, the most defiant thing you can do personally, 80% of people have an HSA and FSA account, and Max those out.
01:53:59.000If you're battling a chronic condition or even trying to prevent a chronic condition, get your eight sleep, get your athletic greens, get your gym membership.
01:56:07.000And, you know, it's like Callie's saying, like, it is a free country and people should be allowed to make choice, but we don't need to pay for the bad choices for people, which is what we're doing.
01:56:17.000We don't incentivize cigarettes for kids.
01:56:20.000We're putting it in their school lunches.
01:56:21.000We are also making those foods cheaper through the farm bills and through our complete and utter support, a $500 billion program, the farm bill program.
01:56:33.000And it's all In terms of the crops, he's going towards commodity crops that are turned into ultra-processed foods and making them cheaper.
01:56:39.000Less than 1% of the entire Farm Bill budget goes towards fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, legumes...
01:56:52.000And truly, I mean, if people want to do something before the election, they're trying to slide the Farm Bill five-year extension under our noses right now.
01:57:00.000They're trying to vote on that right now because they're trying to get it in before Trump gets in because they know Trump's going to blow stuff up.
01:57:05.000If you want to call your member of Congress, take one minute, ask them to do food and You know, not have just government-funded OZIMPIC before fixing our food system, the Treat and Reduce Obesity Act, and tell them it needs to be a one-year extension on the farm bill.
01:57:34.000As a conservative growing up, I used to work for, you know, conservative think tanks used to pay us, too, along with the NAACP. Excuse me, we used to pay conservative think tanks, the pharma industry.
01:57:48.000So we rig the system, and then we pay conservative influencers to say it's nanny state to question the rigged system.
01:57:54.000Think about how screwed up that is, right?
01:57:55.000We rig the system beyond recognition, tens of millions of dollars of lobbying spending to ensure that sugary drinks, that diabetes water is on food stamps, and then the moment you question that, You get attacked by the conservative influencers saying you're nanny state.
01:58:11.000We're waking up, and I think Trump's really realigned the parties to where when I grew up, you know, as a young conservative, it's like you trust the farmer, trust food without question, and it's totally against orthodoxy on the conservative side to question any corporation.
01:58:22.000That's changed, which is a very good thing.
01:58:25.000But you still have little remnants of that.
01:58:28.000Fixing a rigged market is not an attack on the free market.
01:58:57.000They're the highest spender on research.
01:59:00.000They fund the regulatory agencies themselves, right?
01:59:04.000They fund the NAACP and civil rights groups and weaponize issues like feminism, racism, and body positivity very strategically to get it to shut up.
01:59:13.000They are just demonstrably, the healthcare industry is the lifeblood of every single institution that we trust in America.
01:59:20.000And to question that is not an anti-state.
01:59:23.000That's something Trump and RFK have kind of bashed through.
01:59:28.000We need to come together with the farmers.
01:59:32.000You know, with the brave people in healthcare and have a reset.
01:59:35.000And I would just ask you, does it feel like it's a marginal issue or does it feel like, you know, we kind of need to have almost a spiritual reset here?
01:59:52.000I think it's also an information ripple effect and this is why it's so important to have people like you lay this out so clearly is that most people haven't heard it said.
02:00:02.000I think you guys have said it as clearly as anybody I've ever heard and the message is so clear and it's so concise and then it gets out there.
02:00:16.000I didn't think that there was medical capture.
02:00:18.000I didn't think there was a problem with the NIH before COVID. I had no idea that there was this prevailing issue.
02:00:24.000I would have been the first person to defend vaccines.
02:00:27.000I would have been the first person to defend the medical establishment.
02:00:30.000They're working very hard to create drugs to help people with all these diseases, and we've got problems.
02:00:36.000People are getting the information now in a way they've never gotten it before through the internet.
02:00:41.000And I think because it's not regulated, I think that's one of the things that freaks these people out.
02:00:45.000And that's why you have people like Bill Gates who have profited tremendously from vaccines.
02:00:52.000And his global healthcare initiative, air quotes, that this guy would be so bold as to say we have to remove vaccine misinformation when what studies have been done on vaccines?
02:01:04.000Like, you tell me, how clear are you when there is some sort of a correlation?
02:01:10.000There's a rise in all these issues, and there's a rise in all these vaccines in children, and you're saying that the work has been done.
02:01:47.000I think COVID, obviously, as you've said, it broke something open.
02:01:50.000It broke something open that I feel like is light because it's awareness.
02:01:55.000And I was probably a little more cynical having been in the healthcare system going into COVID because I was raised as a young surgeon with the mantra, as a surgeon, you eat what you kill.
02:02:08.000That is the unofficial mantra of the surgical world, which is that as a private practice surgeon, what you eat, i.e.
02:02:14.000what your salary is going to be, is what you kill, how many surgeries you sell and book.
02:02:18.000And so it was very black and white to me to understand that the financial security of everyone in the healthcare system is dependent on how much we actually do to people, how much we, you know, unfortunately, see these bodies essentially a box that we can either take things out of or put things in.
02:02:38.000You know, surgery is taking things out.
02:02:44.000That's why I literally just put down my scalpel because I was heading out of residency into private practice and I thought, I can't do this.
02:02:52.000That this is like the business model of my industry because it's very personal.
02:02:57.000You know, I had a really good friend who was with me in the hallway before taking a job as a cancer surgeon and, you know, tearful, saying, you know, I don't know if I can do this.
02:03:09.000Like, when people come through the doors of the surgical oncology department here, they are going to get a surgery whether they need it or not.
02:03:22.000Every doctor I know is a good person, went into healthcare for noble reasons.
02:03:28.000But if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
02:03:32.000If that's what you know and that's what you can offer people, that is what you're going to offer people.
02:03:35.000And especially with cancer, when people are hopeless and desperate and you have something you can do for them and it happens to be really profitable, this revolving door keeps happening.
02:03:48.000You know, and then there's these, like, then just always getting back to systems issues, because that's where Callie and I really focus.
02:03:53.000Like, you look at some of these things, like, that sound good on paper, you know?
02:03:57.000And I think this is actually a lot what's happening with politicians, is they see these bills, lots of things coming across their desk, and they kind of sound good on paper.
02:04:35.000The easiest, by far, evidence-based way to make a patient healthier for a lower cost is to have them eat real food and exercise and go in the sunshine and sleep, right?
02:04:50.000That whole project got co-opted by industry because what happened was industry got their fingers in it and the quality metrics that doctors were going to have to report on to get that increased payment, instead of it being quality, good outcomes, being a healthier patient who reversed their disease,
02:05:09.000quality, good outcomes was measured by how many of the patients in that doctor's practice were medicated on long-term medication therapy.
02:05:17.000So a doctor, instead of saying, I reversed these 50 patients' diabetes and now they are non-diabetic, they would report that they had their patient panel on long-term diabetes medication and they were compliant with it.
02:05:30.000So even something that sounds good, Obamacare, value-based care, can get corrupted if we don't look at the details.
02:05:40.000There's a new bill right now that's been introduced that's All about, you know, protecting farmers that's basically going to allow the EPA, which is totally bought off, to decide at a federal level whether these different pesticides are safe or not.
02:05:55.000And so if the EPA says that a particular pesticide is safe, then state by state, it's going to be similar to the vaccines where people cannot sue for harm caused by pesticide injury if it's got the label that the FDA said it I think COVID broke something open that is good because it's basically giving people the
02:06:25.000courage in the face of total There's a lot to clean up, and I think that just seeing it firsthand in the healthcare system, I have a little cynicism about it because of the way the incentives are in the business model,
02:06:44.000but I think, like Callie said, with executive leadership, this could change rapidly.
02:06:53.000You need executive leadership, strong executive agenda, and then strong legislative priorities.
02:07:00.000And you need, with the executive agenda, to have transformational change eventually get to some real bipartisan.
02:07:06.000But I would argue, just listening to what Casey's talking about in these systems issues, we all think, oh, we got to...
02:07:11.000Who are the experts, the uncorrupted medical experts who can figure this out?
02:07:14.000I think people like Elon Musk are much more important healthcare thinkers, systems thinkers.
02:07:19.000We need systems thinkers to literally just start top-down looking at these agencies, looking at the web of incentives, and asking what is something that makes sense to spur American health and disease reversal.
02:07:58.000You get to reorienting the incentives of these industries.
02:08:00.000And you get to eventually where all the money is, which is where are the subsidies going to and where are those $4.5 trillion of healthcare spend going to.
02:08:09.000And you just have to demand that that follows the science and go to the right standard of care.
02:08:13.000And frankly, again, I can't stress this enough.
02:08:44.000Literally, there's a war on whole food.
02:08:47.000Bill Gates says it's pseudoscience, as you said, that, you know, trees help with global warming.
02:08:51.000He's literally putting up sun blockers.
02:08:54.000He's saying that it's anti-science to say that the future for developing country and feeding them is anything other than lab-grown meat and all to process food.
02:09:05.000Do we need studies to tell us that regenerative ranching and more natural processes and not Raping our soil to where there's only 40 crop cycles left and trying to out-hack everything and spray poison over all the crops.
02:09:35.000The fact that people can't afford that food is because we're subsidizing the shitty food.
02:09:40.000So it's like, that's why at every level, you know, the immediate backlash to saying any of this is that, oh, that's elitist, classist, racist, whatever, you know, because not everyone can afford this.
02:09:52.000But that is literally by design, and that could be changed as well.
02:09:56.000Well, just think about these congressional meetings, and it's not a blink of an eye that that podiatrist, Representative Windstrup, Bill, Ozempic, $1,600, trillions of dollars in ratification, not even a blink.
02:11:17.000The fact that the pesticides, the plastics, the sleep, all the things, and somehow that's all too complicated, but we can jam kids for life with a shot weekly for $690 a month.
02:12:33.000Again, I think that executive leadership, we have to be clear-eyed.
02:12:36.000If we don't have moral clarity and people that are going to say, go away to these industries and have clear, level-headed thinking on what's actually happening, we're screwed.
02:12:46.000But there are members of Congress and there's bipartisan appetite.
02:12:51.000Again, we've been meeting with dozens of them.
02:12:53.000I've been getting personal DMs from members of Congress.
02:12:56.000On this journey, people are clamoring for answers here, and I do believe that a focus on chronic disease reversal can be a banner bipartisan initiative that will go down in history.
02:13:12.000You know, I think in a history book, if we're still around in 100 years, we'll talk about this moment where we, I mean, the shame we'll have for what we did to kids on obesity, like childhood obesity.
02:13:23.000There's no greater moral standard in our country.
02:14:38.000It's obviously the beautiful sides to that, but also it's like we've totally lost our priorities and we're giving away our attention freely so that we're so distracted that we're missing the existential issues that are happening here now.
02:14:53.000And I think that what Kelly and I really want to share is that...
02:14:57.000There's a way to get back to, I think, deep fulfillment and genuine health.
02:15:03.000But the chronic disease epidemic is just part and parcel with all of this because our brains and our bodies are basically getting destroyed.
02:15:13.000And then it's a vicious downward cycle where if our bodies aren't strong and our minds aren't strong, we're actually less strong to be able to We're good to go.
02:15:37.000Easy to succumb to the phone that hits the dopamine or the drugs down the road.
02:15:42.000I think you talked about this with Brigham, like you put the rats in a group and if they're in community and they have kind of that purpose of community, they're not going to choose the heroin water, right?
02:15:51.000They're going to just choose the regular water, but that's why the food is so interlinked with all of it.
02:15:56.000Like, I just look at the food we're feeding our kids and we're doing this because families feel strapped for time and money, you know, and that's a societal issue.
02:16:03.000And we've also bought into this idea that both parents may be working all the time for women to have any value in society, which is insane, and forgotten that parenting is the most precious, incredible act we possibly could do, I think, as humans, and raising healthy, strong, critical-thinking people.
02:16:19.000But because of all of these forces, we are just giving food to our families that is literally dead.
02:16:36.000And the food has tens of thousands of molecular components in it that work miraculously with our cells to generate health.
02:16:44.000And right now, the average piece of food, I mean, 67% of our calories are ultra-processed food, totally dead, totally stripped of all those miraculous nutrients.
02:16:52.000And the average piece of fresh food is traveling 1500 miles from the soil to our plates and is usually out of the ground for weeks.
02:16:58.000So we are literally eating dead food that has lost all of its magic that is God-given for us to have cells that function properly.
02:17:07.000And all of this is tied in to all these cultural societal factors that are being used against us to make us think that our priorities are basically just climbing the corporate ladder.
02:17:18.000And fundamentally, we need to just wake up and really focus on, again, get back to the core basics below all of this, above all of this, which is that our life is a miracle.
02:17:31.000It is a miracle that we are here, that you're here, that I'm alive, that Callie's alive, that we're all here.
02:17:37.000It is so insane that we get to have this experience and privilege to be alive once.
02:17:43.000And to have these finite number of days.
02:17:47.000And we're squandering that because we're distracted.
02:17:50.000And we are allowing ourselves to live in fear.
02:17:57.000When in fact we don't need to have fear.
02:17:58.000Because we are these incredible, miraculous beings.
02:18:03.000We're talking a lot about policy and it's really important, but I think a lot of this is going to come down to us having a reckoning in our families and our communities with ourselves of getting back to that higher level of like, Jesus Christ, we're alive.
02:18:26.000Like, we could actually be doing it differently.
02:18:28.000We could be honoring it, respecting it, letting it produce the energy it needs to produce to be able to reach our highest purpose in this one lifetime.
02:18:52.000Like, everything we're saying is not the direction we're going in as a country, as a world.
02:18:57.000And, you know, I don't understand that.
02:19:00.000It feels like we have an opportunity to elevate consciousness here on this planet for future generations, and we're choosing not to, but we could make a different choice today, all of us, by...
02:19:12.000By really digging deep into our spiritual strength and being bold right now.
02:19:23.000There are political tactics that I think can help bring it to fruition, but fundamentally it starts with us, each of us individually believing that this life is a miracle and fighting for it.
02:19:50.000And I hope that this being connected to Trump doesn't put people off To the point where they're not able to recognize that this is about all of us.
02:19:59.000It has nothing to do with political party.
02:20:02.000It's just about being a human being and that money and that the pursuit of constant money from these corporations has created this diffusion of responsibility thing where each person inside that organization doesn't feel responsible for the overall result.
02:20:17.000And that they're not all bad people, and it's not demons running all these organizations.
02:20:22.000They're people that have been captured by a system that's been captured, and it's all about money.
02:20:26.000And that's why those people cheered when they found out that Ozempic was going to be prescribed for everyone.
02:20:46.000I have a weekly newsletter that examines all of these things.
02:20:49.000I'm also the co-founder of a company called Levels, which is part of this whole mission, which is to basically empower people.
02:20:56.000We have democratized access to continuous glucose monitors so that people can actually understand their own metabolic health, because it's the most important aspect of our health.
02:21:03.000And right now, that technology has been actually, by the healthcare system, been sequestered just to people who already have type 2 diabetes.
02:21:10.000And the vision of the company is to help people Before they get these diseases to understand how their diet and their lifestyle are affecting their metabolic health by using these totally available, not very expensive sensors and pairing it with intelligent software.
02:21:24.000We've had people lose 120 pounds just by having awareness of what this disaster food is doing to our blood sugar.
02:21:31.000So Levels.com, KCMeans.com, and then of course our book, Good Energy.
02:21:36.000And I think the most important thing we can do today is steer our medical dollars to these root cause metabolic interventions like exercise.
02:21:42.000We could do that right now with HSAs, FSAs, which is why I started TruMed.com.
02:21:46.000Everyone listening should look at your HSA, FSAs.
02:21:48.000You can go to TruMed.com, figure out how to spend that money if you qualify on real medicine.
02:21:54.000If we can get our dollars to real medicine and away from waiting to get sick for pharma, we can do some major things.
02:22:00.000And most people are doing their HSA contributions right now.
02:22:05.000Inchronicdisease.org is something I set up.
02:22:07.000It just connects you with your member of Congress with some scripts to talk about this.
02:22:10.000I do think if people are compelled, we talked about the political.