The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2220 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Well, I wish there was something to talk about.

00:00:18.000 Guys, you're coming here.

00:00:19.000 I'm like, I love these guys so much.

00:00:20.000 Too bad.

00:00:21.000 There's nothing going on.

00:00:22.000 Well, I heard you might have needed to cancel on us to get Kamala Harris on. 1.00

00:00:27.000 I was not going to do that.

00:00:29.000 I would have had to.

00:00:30.000 I knew you guys flew from England, and I wasn't going to cancel on you because she had an opportunity to come.

00:00:38.000 You could look at this and you could say, oh, you're being a diva.

00:00:40.000 But she had an opportunity to come here when she was in Texas, and I literally gave them an open invitation.

00:00:45.000 I said, anytime.

00:00:46.000 I said, if she's done at 10 o'clock, we'll come back here at 10 o'clock.

00:00:50.000 I go, I'll do it at 9 in the morning.

00:00:51.000 I'll do it at 10 p.m.

00:00:52.000 I'll do it at midnight.

00:00:54.000 She's up. 1.00

00:00:54.000 She wants to, you know, drink a Red Bull, fucking party on. 1.00

00:00:57.000 Yeah, but I think this idea that you're being a diva is silly because you're asking her, you're offering her the opportunity to do exactly what the other candidate did, right? 0.99

00:01:05.000 Well, she actually reached out when she found out that he was coming on.

00:01:09.000 So their camp reached out to me.

00:01:11.000 So I said, great, I would love to talk to her.

00:01:13.000 But it was very difficult to tie it down.

00:01:17.000 And a lot of they wanted to travel.

00:01:19.000 And see, the thing is, like, you can't, if I go somewhere, then there's going to be other people in the room.

00:01:25.000 And they want to control a lot of things, I'm sure, according to the Brett Breyer interview on Fox, like people were waving them off.

00:01:33.000 That's a distraction.

00:01:34.000 People in the room, like my whole goal with her and with him is just talk, just have a conversation like a human being.

00:01:41.000 You find out things about people.

00:01:43.000 You get a sense of them at least, a real sense.

00:01:45.000 That was it. 0.99

00:01:46.000 I don't give a fuck what we talk about. 1.00

00:01:48.000 I really don't. 0.99

00:01:49.000 I just want to talk to you. 1.00

00:01:51.000 Who the fuck are you? 1.00

00:01:53.000 Do you think they think that you're on his side and they're more wary of you? 1.00

00:01:57.000 I don't know.

00:01:58.000 Just because of my appearance, there's always been this assumption that I'm some right-wing MAGA guy.

00:02:05.000 I was a Bernie supporter.

00:02:09.000 I'm a politically homeless person, for sure.

00:02:12.000 I always considered myself a left-wing person.

00:02:15.000 I never thought I would ever vote right-wing.

00:02:18.000 But then the tides of culture shifted in a very bizarre way.

00:02:24.000 And it just made me, over time, much more aware of what this stuff is really all about.

00:02:30.000 Because what this stuff is really all about is just these natural human behavior patterns and these tribal instincts that we have.

00:02:37.000 And it overpowers all discussions.

00:02:41.000 It overpowers what's good for the collective group.

00:02:44.000 It overpowers everything. 0.99

00:02:47.000 It's just people pick a fucking team, and then whatever that team says, they can do no harm. 0.98

00:02:54.000 They will do their best to marginalize the horrible effects of the furthest extreme version of that, whether it's Antifa or the Proud Boys. 0.99

00:03:04.000 They'll minimalize the...

00:03:06.000 It's the same thing, man.

00:03:08.000 It's the same.

00:03:08.000 If you look at what's going on with the liberals right now, so progressives are – they want the war in Ukraine to be funded.

00:03:15.000 They want to censor speech online.

00:03:18.000 And they want to give the World Health Organization, which is deeply influenced by big pharma, including the FDA, deeply influenced.

00:03:26.000 The revolving door between the FDA and pharmaceutical drug companies is legendary.

00:03:30.000 And they want to give them control over what we take and what we don't take.

00:03:33.000 That's crazy!

00:03:35.000 And that doesn't make sense because that's not what the liberals were when I was a kid.

00:03:40.000 My parents were hippies.

00:03:42.000 You know, we lived in San Francisco during the Vietnam War.

00:03:46.000 My parents were like straight-up hippies.

00:03:48.000 That's how I was raised.

00:03:49.000 And so for me, it was always like the liberals were the ones who wanted education and open-mindedness.

00:03:55.000 The liberals who were the ones with the ACLU let the Nazis talk and let them have a rally. 1.00

00:04:01.000 They said you can't infringe on people's free speech because if you infringe on the speech of people that you disagree with, You're being a fucking hypocrite. 0.99

00:04:09.000 The only solution to bad speech is better speech. 1.00

00:04:13.000 We've always known that.

00:04:14.000 But when they had the power over social media and these collective groups of people that all had the same ideology, and then that tribal mentality kicks in and you lose the perspective That you should have as an educated person that recognizes that everyone has to be able to talk and we have to figure out who's right.

00:04:33.000 And you might be wrong.

00:04:35.000 You might be wrong.

00:04:35.000 And you might be clinging to this idea that you're right and you're going to do the whole thing a terrible disservice.

00:04:42.000 You know, the thing that I loved about the left, Joe, was the anti-establishment left.

00:04:47.000 The left that were like, you know, we're going to challenge authority.

00:04:49.000 We're not going to listen to what the parties in charge may be saying.

00:04:54.000 You know, what I used to listen to Bill Hicks when I was a kid, when I was 19, and go, ah, you know, that to me was like a totem of the left.

00:05:04.000 But you just look at what happened to the left and what I saw in my own country and here and it just seemed like this herd mentality came in and the moment you started questioning or pushing back It was the moment you just found yourself exiled from the group,

00:05:24.000 and it just seemed that what I fell in love with at one point in my life no longer existed. 0.99

00:05:30.000 Yeah, because it's bullshit. 0.98

00:05:32.000 And I think we should even stop calling it the left and the right, because it's just tribes. 1.00

00:05:37.000 That is the real problem.

00:05:39.000 When you have people that are supposedly progressive and liberal and they're opposed to the idea that free speech is an absolute right as an American citizen, it's very, very important.

00:05:53.000 It's very important because too many people can decide what you can and can't say.

00:05:58.000 Like when Tim Walz was saying free speech doesn't apply to hate speech and misinformation.

00:06:04.000 Of course it does.

00:06:05.000 First of all, of course it does.

00:06:06.000 But also, you said misinformation?

00:06:08.000 Okay, well, if that's the case, where is all the punishment of all the people that spread misinformation during COVID? Where's the call?

00:06:18.000 Where's the call for accountability?

00:06:19.000 It's non-existent.

00:06:21.000 It's not real.

00:06:23.000 They don't really care about misinformation.

00:06:25.000 They care about controlling information.

00:06:27.000 100%, man.

00:06:28.000 And look, this is going to sound like a party political point.

00:06:31.000 It's not intended to be.

00:06:32.000 But if we look at the facts...

00:06:34.000 From 2016 onwards, we've heard a lot of misinformation.

00:06:37.000 Yes.

00:06:38.000 A lot.

00:06:39.000 A lot of it.

00:06:40.000 And nobody ever got punished for that.

00:06:42.000 Nobody ever went to prison.

00:06:43.000 Some of those people are still in positions of power.

00:06:45.000 And still supposedly the respected arbiters of truth and morality in our society.

00:06:50.000 Sure, they're still making appearances on these cable news talk shows.

00:06:54.000 Yeah.

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00:08:53.000 I think the concern about inaccurate information is perfectly valid and a legitimate thing for us to worry about in an ecosystem where information travels so quickly.

00:09:02.000 It's not an illegitimate thing to be concerned about.

00:09:05.000 But you can't have one side Also, there's this inherent problem with business being entangled in information and that's what happened when these tech companies exploded.

00:09:28.000 So, business, an enormous business, not small business, business like Google and Facebook and Apple, and these are huge businesses.

00:09:38.000 And all of a sudden, they are in charge of information.

00:09:42.000 Not necessarily Apple, but in a way.

00:09:44.000 Because they have, like, banned people from the Apple store and banned people from...

00:09:48.000 But they're businesses, enormous businesses, but they're super left-wing.

00:09:54.000 Not just super left-wing, but super woke left-wing, which is kind of the craziest version of it, where there's no room for negotiation. 0.96

00:10:04.000 Anybody who disagrees is a fascist. 0.67

00:10:06.000 It gets real weird.

00:10:08.000 It gets real weird with ideas.

00:10:10.000 So you have, for the first time ever, human beings are Capable of just with a device they carry around with them that has unbelievable amounts of power.

00:10:20.000 That device has, first of all, you can be on it for like, what, 20 hours now, the new ones? 0.98

00:10:25.000 They're like 20-hour battery life of just you staring at a fucking screen all day. 0.90

00:10:30.000 And you're getting connected with an infinite number of ideas that are constantly coming your way. 0.94

00:10:37.000 And it's almost all in the hands of left wing.

00:10:42.000 The left wing party is Google, it's Facebook, it's all these companies that have massive power.

00:10:48.000 And until Elon stepped in and bought Twitter, there was no counter to that.

00:10:53.000 It was just one side.

00:10:56.000 And that's where things get really weird because businesses like to have monopolies.

00:11:00.000 They like to crush things.

00:11:01.000 And if you have the monopoly of information, you get essentially Microsoft in information form.

00:11:07.000 You know, when they have the antitrust lawsuits against Microsoft and people worry that it's a monopoly.

00:11:12.000 And there's people who think that about Google now.

00:11:14.000 And there's even conversations about Apple being a monopoly.

00:11:17.000 Businesses love that. 1.00

00:11:19.000 They love to kick ass. 1.00

00:11:20.000 They love to fucking dominate the business. 1.00

00:11:22.000 Your goal, if you run a business, you literally have an obligation to your shareholders that you continually grow the business. 0.99

00:11:30.000 There's only one way to do that, kids. 1.00

00:11:31.000 You gotta kick some fucking ass. 1.00

00:11:33.000 And if you're the biggest thing, and what is in your interest? 1.00

00:11:37.000 Well, definitely controlling the information.

00:11:40.000 We would like to control, and we also want some cultural beach balls that we could chuck around so people get distracted and throw them back and forth at each other.

00:11:48.000 There's a bunch of Republicans that love the fact that there's these gender-affirming care centers.

00:11:53.000 They love it.

00:11:54.000 Because it gives them something to yell about.

00:11:56.000 It gives them something, like, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them fund these things. 1.00

00:11:59.000 Some people are fucking crazy. 1.00

00:12:01.000 They're fucking crazy. 1.00

00:12:02.000 Especially if they found out if it's profitable. 1.00

00:12:04.000 Maybe they got a fucking, some sort of a fund and part of it is a, you know, these are privately owned businesses. 0.92

00:12:09.000 The whole thing is just human tribal characteristics applied to the way we're supposed to coexist with each other and share the space. 1.00

00:12:20.000 And it's all fucked up. 0.99

00:12:22.000 It's all fucked up because it's the Cowboys versus the Raiders. 0.99

00:12:26.000 No one's thinking straight. 0.99

00:12:28.000 That's so true.

00:12:29.000 At election time especially, it becomes like that.

00:12:31.000 But I am hopeful.

00:12:32.000 This election, I think there is one thing going on which I'm actually really hopeful about, which is You know, you had Trump on on Friday.

00:12:40.000 Like, the conversation is moving from the clickbait, five seconds, mainstream media, journalists will tell you what to think, to a three-hour conversation, you get to see the real person.

00:12:52.000 If that continues, which it will, and by the time of the next election, this format will be the dominant format, I think.

00:12:59.000 The type of person who is going to be selected for positions of leadership will be a different type of person than the type of person who's selected on 10-second soundbites on mainstream media.

00:13:10.000 But you certainly have a way better grasp of who they are.

00:13:14.000 But the medium is the message.

00:13:17.000 It will change the type of person that succeeds in that format.

00:13:21.000 Right.

00:13:21.000 The Viveks will rise.

00:13:22.000 Right.

00:13:23.000 And that gives us a chance, actually, to change the political leadership in Western elites, which is badly needed.

00:13:31.000 And we've been talking about it for God knows how many years now, that the caliber of people coming through is not high enough, right?

00:13:38.000 Right.

00:13:39.000 If this format takes over, that will change.

00:13:41.000 And I don't know, it might just be a small blip on the road down to oblivion, but it might just be actually the thing that changes the type of leaders we elect.

00:13:48.000 And that's exciting.

00:13:49.000 There's a bunch of people that are out there now that I'm very excited about.

00:13:53.000 One of them is Vivek.

00:13:54.000 A big one is Tulsi Gabbard.

00:13:56.000 And RFK Jr., of course.

00:13:58.000 I love that guy.

00:13:59.000 I love what he's done his entire career.

00:14:02.000 And I love what he's trying to do with health.

00:14:04.000 I mean, this is a real issue that we all face and we're all being poisoned and they're profiting off of it and we're not doing shit about it.

00:14:13.000 Meanwhile, you stop psychedelics from being given to veterans to help them with PTSD. It doesn't make any sense.

00:14:19.000 This makes zero fucking sense. 0.98

00:14:21.000 And they have so much control over what you say and do. 0.98

00:14:25.000 Because if you can decide that something is unsuitable for the population, like the drug schedule program they have in the United States, right?

00:14:36.000 They have Schedule 1, 2, and 3, depending upon if there's any medicinal use for it.

00:14:41.000 And psychedelics are all on Schedule 1. That is crazy.

00:14:44.000 If you're telling me there's no medicinal use, you could get thousands of people to testify in Congress about soldiers in particular.

00:14:52.000 I know so many soldiers.

00:14:54.000 No one prepares them for that.

00:14:56.000 They go over there when they're 19 years old and they see people get blown up.

00:14:59.000 They lose their friends. 0.99

00:15:00.000 They come back and then they're supposed to just integrate and there's no fucking program that can help you do that. 0.95

00:15:07.000 You're on your own and you got to sort through what you've seen that's so different than all these people around you. 0.98

00:15:15.000 You have to sort through seeing your friends die. 0.71

00:15:18.000 You have to sort through having to kill people.

00:15:20.000 You have to sort through that and just exist.

00:15:22.000 And then there's a tremendous amount of veterans who commit suicide.

00:15:25.000 It's a crazy number.

00:15:27.000 And psychedelics are proven to help that.

00:15:31.000 So the fact that there's some sort of an organization that thinks that somehow or another that is bad, that this thing that doesn't kill anybody, literally like the LD50 rate for psilocybin is something insane.

00:15:42.000 It's like you have to take...

00:15:44.000 Well, it's like 100 pounds of it or something.

00:15:46.000 I don't know what it is.

00:15:47.000 Let's find out what's the LD50 rate, which means lethal dose at 50% of the population.

00:15:53.000 What kills half the people?

00:15:54.000 It's like you can't do it.

00:15:57.000 That's not what the concern is.

00:15:58.000 Are there concerns about people losing their marbles when they do it?

00:16:01.000 Yeah.

00:16:02.000 Yeah, there is concerns. 0.99

00:16:03.000 It's not a fucking free ride. 1.00

00:16:05.000 There's some people that are mentally fragile and they have mental issues already. 1.00

00:16:10.000 They shouldn't be doing that.

00:16:12.000 But for everybody else, there should be a conversation where we figure out how to make the world a better place.

00:16:19.000 And one of the ways to make the world a better place is to make people more kind, more compassionate, and more understanding.

00:16:25.000 And that's something that psychedelics provides.

00:16:27.000 And the fact that that is somehow or another listed by a country that is the leader of the free world in the most information-rich time alive.

00:16:38.000 There's so much access to information.

00:16:40.000 We all know what they really are and what they're not, and yet this organization that somehow or another, this shadow organization that controls what we do, tells you you can't have that.

00:16:54.000 If you have it, you go to jail.

00:16:55.000 That's bananas.

00:16:57.000 That doesn't make any sense. 1.00

00:16:58.000 And as long as we keep stupid shit like that, people will never have hope that there's going to be a better horizon, a better future. 1.00

00:17:05.000 They would think that all these things are so – it takes so long just for marijuana. 1.00

00:17:10.000 Look, marijuana is still not federally legal, but it's legal in like half the states. 0.99

00:17:14.000 It took so long for people – they're drinking whiskey on every fucking corner. 0.96

00:17:19.000 People are just doing shots and drinking tequila and – Marijuana is something that gets you locked in a cage. 0.99

00:17:26.000 As long as something like that exists that's preposterous and completely illogical, the good that it serves is the ruling class gets to rule without logic.

00:17:36.000 Because it doesn't have to make sense. 1.00

00:17:38.000 Fuck you, you're going to jail. 1.00

00:17:41.000 As long as they say that, you're like, ah, we raise your taxes, you got to pay them. 1.00

00:17:45.000 Fuck you, you're going to jail. 1.00

00:17:46.000 What the fucking Constitution? 1.00

00:17:48.000 Shut up. 1.00

00:17:49.000 So if there's an illegal situation like that, or an illogical situation like that, rather, it makes you lose faith in the whole system. 1.00

00:17:58.000 But when someone like RFK Jr. comes along and says, hey, I think we can fix this, It's like, give him a fucking chance. 0.95

00:18:06.000 Maybe he can. 0.95

00:18:07.000 Maybe he can fix this whole health system where we've been co-opted by these giant organizations that want you to make money.

00:18:15.000 You know, we interviewed on the show...

00:18:17.000 Or want to make money off you, rather.

00:18:18.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:18:19.000 You know, on our show, we interviewed a guy called Dr. David Nutt, who's a neuropharmacologist.

00:18:25.000 And he's in charge of the hallucinogenic trials in Imperial College London, looking at how these particular drugs can alleviate PTSD, anxiety, other types of mental health disorders and depression.

00:18:40.000 And the results that are coming out of there are fantastic.

00:18:43.000 That is actually showing that a lot of drugs like psilocybin are in fact far more effective than prescription meds when it comes to alleviating conditions like depression.

00:18:53.000 And it's really impressive what they're doing.

00:18:56.000 You know, I've talked to a lot of guys.

00:18:58.000 What is this?

00:18:59.000 What is this, Jamie?

00:19:01.000 I can't hear you, buddy.

00:19:05.000 Oh, the LD50 rate.

00:19:08.000 Your mic's on, brother.

00:19:10.000 Joe, sorry.

00:19:11.000 Could you pass the lighter, please?

00:19:12.000 Yeah, sorry.

00:19:13.000 Thank you, sir.

00:19:16.000 Jamie has to have the mic down because Carl's snoring.

00:19:20.000 He's not asleep, so it's probably a little safer, but that was the LD50. Bro, when he snores, he fucking puts into work. 0.99

00:19:26.000 That little dude. 0.99

00:19:27.000 This is the best I could find.

00:19:28.000 That was 280 per milligrams per mg to kg, which is really hard to understand.

00:19:33.000 So it's 154 pounds.

00:19:35.000 No, no.

00:19:35.000 For an average-sized individual.

00:19:37.000 Oh, that's the weight of the average-sized individual.

00:19:40.000 So the lethal dose, 50%, is...

00:19:44.000 Normal dose would be 20 to 30. It actually says no lethal overdose potential.

00:19:49.000 It says there's no potential for dying.

00:19:52.000 The recommended therapeutic dose for optimum effects is 20 to 30 milligrams for an average-sized individual, 70 kilograms or 154 pounds, for whom the medium lethal dose LD50 is 19,600 milligrams,

00:20:07.000 making it virtually impossible to ingest a lethal dose of psilocybin.

00:20:12.000 But boy, if you got close, you might figure everything out.

00:20:17.000 You just get to the door, and you might be able to come back with enough information like, I've solved it!

00:20:24.000 I've solved it!

00:20:25.000 You know, I did...

00:20:28.000 I've probably told you about this before, but I invited a shaman around to my house a couple of years ago and I did a psilocybin trip.

00:20:34.000 Yeah.

00:20:35.000 And the results of it were so profound.

00:20:38.000 They changed the way I looked at the world.

00:20:41.000 And I remember coming out after that the next day going, oh, all you're doing, all you really are is a conduit for energy.

00:20:48.000 That's all you are.

00:20:49.000 You're a conduit for positive energy or light, or you're a conduit for dark.

00:20:53.000 And that's really your choice as a human being.

00:20:55.000 Do you want to put light and love out into the world, or do you want to put dark?

00:20:59.000 Because we have both of those fundamentally contained within our soul.

00:21:02.000 So it's up to you as an individual, what do you want to put out there?

00:21:06.000 And if you want to put out light and love, you're going to get back light and love.

00:21:09.000 And if you want to put darkness, anger, destruction, you know what?

00:21:13.000 That is going to come back on you threefold.

00:21:15.000 It's true.

00:21:16.000 It really is true.

00:21:17.000 It seems so simplistic and ideal.

00:21:19.000 Oh, that's such a utopian version of the world.

00:21:22.000 But for the most part, there's something real to it.

00:21:25.000 And you do sense that.

00:21:27.000 You do sense that sometimes in life.

00:21:29.000 You know, there's these beautiful moments in life where you kind of like...

00:21:33.000 Oh, this can be navigated.

00:21:36.000 This life can be navigated better.

00:21:38.000 And one of the best ways to navigate life is to avoid conflict at all costs.

00:21:42.000 It never solves anything.

00:21:44.000 It almost always creates problems.

00:21:45.000 And people that want conflict all the time are the most miserable people.

00:21:49.000 They're just constantly embroiled in hate and anger and trying to get people back.

00:21:54.000 And I think that's the negative thing that people associate with Trump.

00:21:59.000 The negative thing that people associate with Trump is, like, you hit him, he's hitting you back harder.

00:22:03.000 Like, he's got this thing, you know?

00:22:05.000 Like, he called some lady that, you know, one of the ladies that he allegedly had an affair with, he called her horseface on Twitter while he was a sitting president.

00:22:14.000 That is so crazy.

00:22:16.000 So that bothers people, because it's like that kind of energy, you know?

00:22:20.000 We don't like that kind of energy, and I think that's something that people are very apprehensive about for a leader.

00:22:27.000 Sure.

00:22:27.000 What was your sense of his energy when he was here?

00:22:30.000 He's very charming, right?

00:22:32.000 So he's very friendly to me and he also, we have a very good mutual friend, Dana White.

00:22:38.000 Dana White loves him.

00:22:39.000 He stuck up for Dana when MMA was a band sport and he let them put on his events in Trump Casino in Atlantic City.

00:22:50.000 So Dana loves the guy and they've always had a good friendship.

00:22:55.000 He got mad at me one time because I said that RFK Jr. was the only guy that makes sense.

00:23:01.000 But I was essentially saying it the same way I'm saying it here.

00:23:04.000 It's like what RFK Jr. is, he talks about facts and talks about reality and he talks about issues and he talks about studies and what we know about things.

00:23:13.000 He's just brilliant with his recall.

00:23:15.000 And he doesn't attack people, and I think we could all use more of that.

00:23:19.000 Even if he's writing something about something, like in that book, The Real Anthony Fauci, it's because it's true, and it's not good information, and it affects all of us.

00:23:28.000 It's not like personally attacking someone.

00:23:31.000 And I think that personal attack stuff is what bothers people.

00:23:34.000 And so what did he do?

00:23:35.000 He just attacked me!

00:23:39.000 But he attacked me in the craziest way.

00:23:40.000 He said, I wonder how loud Joe Rogan's going to get booed at the next time he goes to the UFC. I'm like, hey, bro.

00:23:48.000 Like, out of all the places.

00:23:49.000 That's kind of your home court, I bet.

00:23:51.000 Out of all the places we think I'm going to get booed.

00:23:53.000 Come on, man. 1.00

00:23:55.000 Those fucking people. 1.00

00:23:56.000 I've been working for that company for 27 years. 1.00

00:23:58.000 Like, whatever it's been.

00:23:59.000 I mean, yeah, when did I start?

00:24:01.000 I started in 97. That was the first time I worked for the UFC. Like, come on.

00:24:05.000 That's a crazy thing to say.

00:24:06.000 Or how about, I hate Taylor Swift?

00:24:08.000 I forgot to ask him about that one.

00:24:09.000 Did he really tweet that?

00:24:11.000 I think he put it on True Social when she endorsed Kamala Harris, all capital letters, I hate Taylor Swift.

00:24:17.000 I think he just has this rule.

00:24:19.000 That is so crazy!

00:24:20.000 Like, he just has to go after anyone who says anything negative about him.

00:24:24.000 It's why he's still in the game, though.

00:24:26.000 You have to realize that's the kind of guy that even though they throw 40 felonies at him, he's still in the game.

00:24:33.000 And he's still all day. 0.98

00:24:35.000 He sat here for three fucking hours, man, and didn't have to pee before, didn't have to pee afterwards, just gets on the fucking plane, flies to Michigan, does the other thing, he's two hours late. 0.99

00:24:47.000 He just goes, man. 0.99

00:24:48.000 It's kind of bizarre.

00:24:50.000 You hear about that and you're like, ah, that's not true.

00:24:52.000 No, he really stays locked in.

00:24:55.000 He didn't get tired.

00:24:56.000 He's 78 years old.

00:24:58.000 But he was locked in.

00:24:59.000 He's got a lot of energy.

00:25:01.000 It's unbelievable how much energy he has.

00:25:03.000 And one of the things I said as well is after you watched his first presidency, he didn't age.

00:25:09.000 Do you remember Barack Obama?

00:25:11.000 It was like someone drained the color from him.

00:25:14.000 Same with Blair.

00:25:15.000 Yeah, same with Blair. 0.95

00:25:16.000 Everybody gets hit hard.

00:25:19.000 Look at Biden.

00:25:20.000 Biden basically died.

00:25:23.000 I mean, he got to the point where...

00:25:25.000 You're gonna get a fact check on that, Jack.

00:25:26.000 Every now and then, he...

00:25:28.000 I said basically. 0.99

00:25:29.000 Every now and then, he fucking will hold a press conference, and it's wild. 0.98

00:25:33.000 It's like, so who lets him get to the mic? 0.99

00:25:37.000 He's still the president. 1.00

00:25:38.000 But meanwhile, who's running this motherfucker? 1.00

00:25:42.000 She's doing podcasts. 1.00

00:25:43.000 She's flying all over the place. 1.00

00:25:45.000 There's no way you're paying attention.

00:25:48.000 So who's running this thing?

00:25:49.000 Yeah.

00:25:50.000 Nancy Pelosi?

00:25:51.000 She's in a bathtub filled with diamonds right now. 0.99

00:25:53.000 She's the same age though as well.

00:25:54.000 She's older.

00:25:55.000 She's older than all of them.

00:25:57.000 She's like 83. You know what it kind of feels like?

00:25:59.000 You know when you're in school and the teacher leaves, gets called out, and then it's just you in the class, the rest of the class, and you're looking around going, what the fuck's going on? 0.77

00:26:07.000 Yeah, how are we free?

00:26:09.000 You know what it feels like for me when I use my Tesla and I use auto drive?

00:26:12.000 I'm just hands off like, Jesus, does this work?

00:26:16.000 I know it's supposed to work, but I got to keep my hands here.

00:26:19.000 Thank God for the deep state, huh?

00:26:20.000 Yeah.

00:26:21.000 Well, if that's real, if that's what's running this thing, I assume it's his cabinet that's running everything.

00:26:27.000 But even then, is that really how it's supposed to be?

00:26:31.000 It's kind of not.

00:26:32.000 It's kind of the weird thing about running for president when you already have a job.

00:26:36.000 That's why people get mad at governors who run for president.

00:26:39.000 It's like, hey, bro.

00:26:40.000 You're supposed to be governing.

00:26:41.000 Like, we got a lot of problems here.

00:26:43.000 You're clearly not... 0.98

00:26:44.000 It's like, if you don't want to quit your job to apply for another job, the people that have already employed you are like, hey, fuckface, you're not even here every day. 0.98

00:26:54.000 You're trying to get this other job. 0.99

00:26:55.000 This is nuts.

00:26:57.000 Like, I've never seen an employee where you're not on the job, and yet you're still here, and if you don't get the new job, you get to come back and be in this job?

00:27:04.000 That's crazy!

00:27:05.000 Why did we let that happen?

00:27:07.000 If you want to be governor, okay, you're governor.

00:27:10.000 You want to run for president, you've got to quit being governor.

00:27:13.000 Or you've got to do your term out, because you're going to leave us anyway.

00:27:17.000 So if you have two more years left and the elections are on, you're going to leave us. 1.00

00:27:22.000 You're going to leave us high and dry here, you fuckhead. 1.00

00:27:25.000 Quit the job! 1.00

00:27:26.000 Quit the fucking job! 1.00

00:27:28.000 You can't have two jobs! 1.00

00:27:30.000 So that's the nuttiest thing about running for president for reelection, right?

00:27:35.000 So in Kamala Harris's case, she's not necessarily really running for reelection because she's the vice president, but she's also the vice president that's running for president. 1.00

00:27:44.000 So she has the second most important job in the world, and she's not doing it because she has to run for the first most important job. 0.98

00:27:51.000 So who's doing the job?

00:27:53.000 Who's doing both jobs?

00:27:55.000 Who's doing vice Where's the porters are? 1.00

00:28:00.000 Oh, man.

00:28:02.000 It has that feeling, though, that...

00:28:05.000 You remember, like, in the 90s where you...

00:28:07.000 Like, I don't know if you felt like this, and I was much younger, where you just kind of didn't question it as much.

00:28:12.000 And then all of a sudden, you start questioning things.

00:28:15.000 And all it does is lead you down from one rabbit hole to another rabbit hole to another rabbit hole.

00:28:20.000 You know, it's like... 0.99

00:28:22.000 People always used to say to us when we started trigonometry, they were like, you know, the whole free speech thing is bullshit, blah, blah, blah. 0.98

00:28:28.000 You just want to be able to say racist things. 1.00

00:28:30.000 You're a racist. 0.98

00:28:31.000 And they were right. 0.99

00:28:37.000 And that's why I came to Texas. 0.97

00:28:43.000 Whoever booked him is shitting their pants right now.

00:28:45.000 Why did you do that?

00:28:47.000 I tell all comedians, don't ever do comedy at something that's not a comedy event.

00:28:52.000 Don't do it.

00:28:53.000 Don't ever do comedy at a place that's doing also.

00:28:57.000 Is it going to have a bunch of speakers and you're going to go up and do 10 minutes?

00:29:00.000 Don't ever do that.

00:29:02.000 It's a terrible setup.

00:29:04.000 It's a terrible setup.

00:29:05.000 And it's...

00:29:06.000 A political rally and you're doing jokes like you're in a comedy club.

00:29:10.000 It doesn't.

00:29:10.000 You can't.

00:29:12.000 Don't do it.

00:29:13.000 I don't really blame Tony, though, because Tony is what Tony is, right?

00:29:16.000 Like, if you want an insult comic, Tony is the best in the world.

00:29:19.000 Literally, his great specialty is roasting.

00:29:23.000 Right.

00:29:24.000 He's the best roaster ever.

00:29:25.000 If you book Tony Hinchcliffe, Tony Hinchcliffe is going to be Tony Hinchcliffe.

00:29:29.000 Exactly. 0.96

00:29:29.000 So whoever fucking booked him, that's the person that's made the mistake. 0.96

00:29:32.000 Not just booked him, but apparently went over his material. 0.97

00:29:36.000 Did they go over his material?

00:29:40.000 This is what I've read on the internet, so it must be true.

00:29:44.000 In the words of Donald Trump, someone's getting fired, man.

00:29:47.000 I gotta tell you, that joke kills at comedy clubs.

00:29:49.000 I don't like the joke.

00:29:50.000 It kills.

00:29:51.000 And I said to him, it's just like, if you're Puerto Rican and you hear that in the audience, it's like, oh.

00:29:56.000 But it's a funny joke.

00:29:57.000 The joke does well. 0.98

00:29:58.000 But I said to him, I go, dude, that's the one that's going to get you stabbed. 0.69

00:30:02.000 Really? 0.85

00:30:03.000 Yes.

00:30:03.000 And he used to talk about it on stage, saying, Joe Rogan always says, that's the one that's going to get me stabbed.

00:30:11.000 Wow.

00:30:11.000 Which is so crazy.

00:30:13.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:30:13.000 I think he'd pig stabbed at this point, given the shit that's going down. 1.00

00:30:16.000 I think it'll blow over, just like all these things do. 0.99

00:30:19.000 Yeah, of course.

00:30:20.000 There's people that are always gonna hate someone like Tony, and it's gonna make other people love him more.

00:30:24.000 It's just like, he's going through it right now.

00:30:27.000 Yeah.

00:30:27.000 He's going through the storm.

00:30:29.000 As somebody who, you know, has wound up, you know, who winds people up, you know, we've wound people up on our time.

00:30:35.000 Yeah, you guys are winders.

00:30:37.000 We get called something beginning with W, mate. 1.00

00:30:40.000 Oh, well, you guys, that's a negative over there, wanker. 0.96

00:30:43.000 You can call someone a wanker here and it's just like... 0.98

00:30:44.000 Yeah, sure. 0.97

00:30:45.000 It's like calling him a cracker.

00:30:47.000 It doesn't really work.

00:30:48.000 But when I saw what Tony did, I went, all right, mate, you're in a different league now to me.

00:30:53.000 That is another level.

00:30:55.000 Yeah, Obama was quoting his bit, but he's quoting it like it was a statement.

00:30:59.000 Right. 0.99

00:30:59.000 Which is really fucked up. 0.99

00:31:00.000 He was quoting it like he was saying someone called Puerto Rico an island of garbage. 1.00

00:31:04.000 But you know that's a joke. 0.99

00:31:06.000 That's like going to a Quentin Tarantino movie, and then the man killed that woman.

00:31:09.000 Like, he didn't really kill that woman. 0.96

00:31:11.000 That's like a doll. 0.81

00:31:12.000 Yeah.

00:31:13.000 You know, this is a movie.

00:31:14.000 No one died.

00:31:15.000 Everyone's fine.

00:31:16.000 They all like each other.

00:31:16.000 But if you give them ammunition...

00:31:18.000 Yeah, that's the problem.

00:31:19.000 We were discussing this in the bathroom.

00:31:20.000 It's like, that's their job!

00:31:22.000 That's what they have to do!

00:31:23.000 That's their job!

00:31:25.000 You give them ammunition, they're gonna use it.

00:31:26.000 Of course they're gonna do it.

00:31:27.000 That's what they do.

00:31:28.000 Like, you can't assume they're gonna be a good person and not use it in this critical moment.

00:31:34.000 How many days are we?

00:31:35.000 Like, eight days?

00:31:36.000 Before the election?

00:31:37.000 That's crazy.

00:31:38.000 That's so soon.

00:31:40.000 Of course you're going to use everything.

00:31:41.000 I'd use it too.

00:31:42.000 But you know what?

00:31:43.000 It nicely encapsulates modern politics because it's a storm about nothing.

00:31:48.000 It's a storm about a joke at a rally.

00:31:51.000 And actually, everybody's focusing on that instead of the huge problems that America has, which we all need to be discussing.

00:31:58.000 And we need to be discussing in a calm, serious, and sober manner.

00:32:02.000 Because, for example, if you have an open border, that's an existential crisis.

00:32:07.000 Because if you can't If you control your borders, you don't have a country.

00:32:10.000 But we don't talk about that, really. 0.98

00:32:12.000 We're getting upset because Tony Hinchkaff came along and called Puerto Rico an island of trash. 0.97

00:32:18.000 He didn't even call him. 0.97

00:32:19.000 He made a joke, right?

00:32:20.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:32:20.000 He made a joke.

00:32:21.000 There's an island of trash and it's called Puerto Rico. 0.99

00:32:23.000 Here's where that joke comes from. 0.99

00:32:26.000 Tony is actually obsessed with the Pacific garbage patch.

00:32:33.000 We were talking about recycling.

00:32:35.000 Recycling doesn't work.

00:32:36.000 They don't do it.

00:32:38.000 Most of your bottles when you throw in a recycler, they get put in landfills.

00:32:41.000 So there's a landfill in Puerto Rico that's way overflowed.

00:32:45.000 Puerto Rico has a legitimate trash problem.

00:32:48.000 Because they're on an island. 1.00

00:32:49.000 Like, where are you going to put it?

00:32:50.000 Right?

00:32:51.000 There's all these people living on that island.

00:32:52.000 Where are you going to put it?

00:32:53.000 And so they have landfills. 1.00

00:32:54.000 Their landfills are way over capacity.

00:32:56.000 So that's where the joke came from.

00:32:57.000 Right.

00:32:58.000 Like, the joke came from, like, Tony being environmentally conscious.

00:33:04.000 Yeah, they don't seem to have taken it that way.

00:33:06.000 But from his roaster perspective, that's where the joke comes from.

00:33:09.000 Totally.

00:33:09.000 I think it's called Puerto Rico.

00:33:10.000 And you say it, and everybody laughs.

00:33:12.000 Yeah.

00:33:13.000 And actually, we were at the rally, and people say no one laughed.

00:33:16.000 Not quite true.

00:33:17.000 Like, it didn't get a big laugh, but it got a bit of a laugh.

00:33:21.000 It's a funny joke.

00:33:22.000 Yeah.

00:33:22.000 You know, even Jon Stewart said it was a funny joke, which I thought was great of him.

00:33:26.000 He had much better ones that got a bigger response.

00:33:28.000 It's terrible.

00:33:30.000 People are like, well, it wasn't funny.

00:33:31.000 Right.

00:33:32.000 Because it was a terrible setup for comedy.

00:33:34.000 Everything was wrong.

00:33:35.000 If you were at a comedy club and the guy did that set, you'd be laughing.

00:33:38.000 It's just a bad setup.

00:33:39.000 Everything's wrong.

00:33:40.000 It's like, you don't go to see acoustic music while people are using jackhammers around you, right?

00:33:46.000 Like, it's not the right setup.

00:33:47.000 You want to go where someone's quiet.

00:33:49.000 And stand-up comedy should be done in a comedy environment, in a club.

00:33:54.000 I mean, there is a great video, though, I should say, of Don Rickles.

00:33:59.000 Don Rickles in the...

00:34:00.000 Have you seen that?

00:34:01.000 The Reagan's inauguration?

00:34:03.000 Don Rickles was a G, boy.

00:34:05.000 He was a funny man.

00:34:06.000 He was so good.

00:34:08.000 It really translates today.

00:34:10.000 You watch that set.

00:34:11.000 It really translates today.

00:34:13.000 But I think Don Rickles was almost like He was in this category of ultra-famous comedian, right?

00:34:23.000 He was in this Dave Chappelle type category, where just seeing Don Rickles, all of a sudden it was a comedy show.

00:34:29.000 Like, oh my god, Don Rickles is here.

00:34:31.000 Tony Hitchcliffe does not have that, right?

00:34:33.000 If Dave Chappelle went up and did 10 minutes in front of Donald Trump, or 10 minutes in front of Kamala Harris, that's a different thing.

00:34:41.000 Because it's like, he's a cultural icon, and you immediately go into stand-up comedy mode. 0.98

00:34:46.000 Like, oh shit, Chappelle's here. 0.99

00:34:48.000 Right? 1.00

00:34:48.000 That's what Don Rickles had with Reagan. 1.00

00:34:50.000 Tony doesn't have that.

00:34:51.000 It's a bad thing to do.

00:34:53.000 The whole thing's bad.

00:34:55.000 It's like doing a bachelor party. 0.99

00:34:57.000 Like when you have to do comedy at bachelor parties, it's like they want whores and cocaine. 1.00

00:35:01.000 Why is this guy telling jokes? 0.97

00:35:04.000 But it's just a bad environment.

00:35:06.000 It's a bad environment for comedy. 0.98

00:35:07.000 And, you know, that joke, I would have told him, don't you fucking dare do that joke. 0.61

00:35:13.000 I never, like, sat down with him. 0.88

00:35:15.000 I didn't know what bits he was going to do.

00:35:17.000 But then I heard he did that joke.

00:35:18.000 I was like, oh, Jesus, Tony.

00:35:21.000 Here it comes.

00:35:22.000 I think there are comedians probably who...

00:35:25.000 I think Tony is the wrong type of comedian for that environment.

00:35:27.000 If you had someone come in who wasn't a roast comedian, who actually made everyone feel good and like...

00:35:33.000 You know who could do it and just talk about cultural issues and get everybody to laugh is Jimmy Dore.

00:35:39.000 Jimmy Dore is really good at that.

00:35:41.000 He could do something like that because he's so knowledgeable when it comes to politics.

00:35:46.000 He could bridge the gaps between humor and fact and reality and what we're up against.

00:35:53.000 He could do that.

00:35:54.000 But it's not Tony's wheelhouse, man. 0.99

00:35:56.000 Tony's just talking shit about people's clothes and stuff. 1.00

00:35:59.000 He's very fucking, very shallow with that. 1.00

00:36:02.000 Like, his comedy is all just, you're a loser. 1.00

00:36:05.000 But it's fun. 0.99

00:36:06.000 It's like, and he'll get through it.

00:36:09.000 You know, he's going through a storm.

00:36:10.000 And that's what happens with all these things, with people like that.

00:36:15.000 But it's good for him, too.

00:36:16.000 Like, when he got cancelled in the past, he came back way stronger as a comic because he felt like he had to prove something.

00:36:22.000 Like, it made him really tighten up his material, like, really edit things well and really, like, write sharp stuff.

00:36:29.000 That's what'll happen with him.

00:36:30.000 He'll come back better.

00:36:31.000 The thing I really like about Tony is Tony's a fighter.

00:36:34.000 You can tell.

00:36:34.000 When we interviewed him on our show and we talked to him, I'm like, you're a fighter.

00:36:38.000 You know, that's who essentially he is.

00:36:41.000 And he's going to come back from this better and stronger.

00:36:44.000 And look, everybody who is smart realizes that this is a storm about nothing.

00:36:51.000 And it's being used and politicized and weaponized by the Democrat Party because...

00:36:57.000 That's what they do.

00:36:58.000 That's what every side does.

00:37:00.000 Well, it's also because it's effective.

00:37:01.000 Like, that's their job.

00:37:03.000 Like, it makes sense that they would do that.

00:37:06.000 That's literally their job. 1.00

00:37:07.000 Their job is to win this fucking election. 1.00

00:37:09.000 And if they can win this election by finding some lady who says Trump fingered her in the 80s, roll her out! 1.00

00:37:17.000 Roll her out! 1.00

00:37:18.000 Who else you got?

00:37:19.000 There's all kinds of crazy allegations on both sides.

00:37:23.000 I've seen nutty things that I don't even want to repeat about Kamala Harris, and I'm sure aren't true, but it doesn't matter.

00:37:29.000 They're just throwing things out there as much as possible.

00:37:32.000 The thing is, most people aren't even paying attention to them.

00:37:36.000 It makes me so angry.

00:37:37.000 My great-grandfather, he died on the Eastern Front fighting actual Nazis.

00:37:43.000 These comparisons are just illegitimate.

00:37:46.000 And what they do also is they take the power away from the words.

00:37:50.000 Because now if you say, this guy is a Nazi, there are some Nazis. 1.00

00:37:53.000 Open your fucking Twitter feed. 1.00

00:37:55.000 There's some Nazis out there. 1.00

00:37:56.000 Oh, there's some real Nazis. 0.95

00:37:56.000 Right? 0.95

00:37:57.000 But if you say that guy's a Nazi, no one takes it seriously anymore.

00:38:01.000 Right, but there were some other things at the rally that people got offended by, and one of them, was that guy's name, Stephen Miller?

00:38:06.000 Was that his name?

00:38:07.000 Yeah.

00:38:07.000 He yelled something like, America is for Americans.

00:38:13.000 Something like that.

00:38:14.000 Let's see what he said.

00:38:15.000 See what he said.

00:38:15.000 I don't remember that part.

00:38:16.000 That was a weird one, I thought, because I'm like, okay, what's an American?

00:38:20.000 They're all immigrants.

00:38:21.000 It's a literal country full of immigrants. 0.91

00:38:24.000 It's not like saying Germany is for Germans, right?

00:38:28.000 That has a different vibe to it.

00:38:30.000 It does.

00:38:31.000 It does.

00:38:32.000 A bad example.

00:38:33.000 I should have said, like, Portugal is for Portuguese.

00:38:37.000 When they got Germany's for the Germans, you're like, all right, mate. 0.98

00:38:40.000 Chill out, chill out.

00:38:41.000 But it's that same kind of rhetoric to get people like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:38:45.000 Why are you yelling that?

00:38:47.000 Like, what are you saying?

00:38:48.000 Like, I really like the way J.D. Vance talks.

00:38:50.000 It's not screamy, yelly.

00:38:52.000 It's, like, very smooth.

00:38:53.000 And he's very coordinated.

00:38:55.000 Very good.

00:38:56.000 He's a sharp guy.

00:38:58.000 Very good at being a very intelligent guy, very good at being a politician.

00:39:01.000 And he does these interviews, which is interesting, too, because he'll talk to all these people.

00:39:05.000 He'll talk to CNN, all these people that corner him, they try to corner him on stuff.

00:39:08.000 It's interesting what people admit to and what they won't admit to, what they won't talk about.

00:39:13.000 You know, like, did you see Jake Tapper and him got at it?

00:39:16.000 Yeah.

00:39:18.000 He's so good with the media, man.

00:39:20.000 He's very good at breaking the traps that they say.

00:39:22.000 So what does he say?

00:39:23.000 Americans for Americans only? 0.62

00:39:24.000 Let's see how he says it.

00:39:28.000 Listen to how he says it.

00:39:34.000 Settle down, bro. 0.66

00:39:35.000 That's goofy.

00:39:36.000 That's goofy because, yeah, right, but what is America?

00:39:40.000 America is literally a country of immigrants. 0.74

00:39:42.000 I want you guys to be Americans.

00:39:45.000 I know people that have moved here that become Americans.

00:39:48.000 Best pool player in the world, Fedor Gerst.

00:39:50.000 He's from Russia.

00:39:52.000 Became an American citizen.

00:39:54.000 He's American now.

00:39:54.000 He plays literally on the Moscone Cup, which is like America's pool team.

00:39:58.000 He's American.

00:39:59.000 America is everybody from everywhere.

00:40:01.000 That's literally what we are.

00:40:02.000 We are the actual melting pot.

00:40:05.000 So America is for Americans only. 0.96

00:40:08.000 Okay.

00:40:09.000 What does that mean?

00:40:10.000 Yeah.

00:40:10.000 How about let's not let in criminals, rapists, and murderers?

00:40:13.000 How about that?

00:40:14.000 How about let's vet the terrorists before they come across?

00:40:17.000 How about say that?

00:40:19.000 America is for Americans only. 0.99

00:40:20.000 Like, okay.

00:40:22.000 Totally.

00:40:22.000 And, you know, we've traveled to many countries.

00:40:25.000 I have to say, when it comes to legal immigration, I haven't been to a place that's more pro-immigrant at the level of the ordinary person than this country.

00:40:33.000 Well, we love an immigrant success story.

00:40:35.000 Right.

00:40:35.000 We love a guy who comes here from Nigeria, and now he's worth a billion dollars, and he made his own computer company.

00:40:40.000 Like, holy shit, look at that. 0.99

00:40:42.000 This guy came from nothing. 1.00

00:40:43.000 We love a come from nothing.

00:40:45.000 That's the things that my friends from England always tell me, is that there's this real sort of, there's an idea in the culture to keep people in their place. 0.99

00:40:56.000 And they don't like when someone has wild aspirations, and they'll try to shit on you. 0.50

00:41:01.000 He says there's no support at all for you chasing your dreams. 0.99

00:41:04.000 Tall poppy syndrome, we call it.

00:41:05.000 Yeah.

00:41:06.000 Well, look, Francis was born in the UK. I came there when I was 11. I love Britain, but there is this element where you're not supposed to strive.

00:41:15.000 You're not supposed to think you're special.

00:41:17.000 You're not supposed to try and achieve too much.

00:41:20.000 Like, everyone loves you as long as you're not too successful.

00:41:22.000 But if you really think you want to be successful, it becomes more difficult.

00:41:27.000 And that's why a lot of those people end up coming here. 0.99

00:41:29.000 They fucking give up. 0.99

00:41:30.000 Your tabloids are brutal. 1.00

00:41:33.000 Your tabloids over there are brutal.

00:41:34.000 And the laws are like different.

00:41:36.000 And now the tax system too, with this government that we have now, they're literally, we're losing more millionaires than any other country in the world except China.

00:41:44.000 Didn't France do that at one point in time?

00:41:45.000 Enact an enormous tax and a shit ton of people left and they wound up losing money?

00:41:51.000 Lots of countries done it.

00:41:52.000 It doesn't work because rich people don't have to live there.

00:41:55.000 That's why we have to have one world government.

00:41:57.000 Don't you understand?

00:41:58.000 You can't just keep letting people move.

00:42:02.000 Move to favorable spots.

00:42:04.000 That's how America got started in the first place.

00:42:06.000 What we're seeing in the UK, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm sure Constant has his own view on this, is we're seeing, for me, the slow creep of...

00:42:16.000 I would say soft authoritarianism, but not even that.

00:42:18.000 You look at Scotland.

00:42:20.000 So Scotland, on April the 1st, ironically enough, brought in a hate speech bill, they called it.

00:42:26.000 It came into law, and that has now criminalised public performance, which includes stand-up comedy.

00:42:33.000 Yeah, I've heard that, but the problem is they have that enormous festival there every year.

00:42:37.000 Yeah, the Edinburgh Comedy Festival.

00:42:39.000 Yeah, Edinburgh is, like, famous worldwide.

00:42:41.000 It's the biggest arts festival in the world.

00:42:43.000 Yeah, Ari Shaffir's done it, like, multiple times. 1.00

00:42:45.000 He raves about it.

00:42:46.000 He's like, you have to go.

00:42:47.000 You have to go, Edinburgh.

00:42:48.000 I'm like, no, I don't. 1.00

00:42:49.000 Shut up. 1.00

00:42:50.000 Nah, you don't. 1.00

00:42:50.000 You don't have to go. 1.00

00:42:51.000 He said it's like you should go there and do American stand-up, because they're basically, like, a lot of them are telling stories, and they have a theme every year.

00:42:58.000 But he goes, it's really cool, though.

00:42:59.000 It's a cool, like, art environment.

00:43:02.000 So if they come along and say that all that stuff's hate speech now, you've killed the whole thing.

00:43:07.000 Well, Tony would be, if he'd done that joke there, he would be being investigated by the police right now.

00:43:12.000 Well, he'd probably be in jail if he was in Canada.

00:43:15.000 This is not an exaggeration.

00:43:16.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:43:17.000 No, I'm sure he would be.

00:43:18.000 Yeah.

00:43:19.000 Yeah, that's dangerous.

00:43:21.000 That's the whole thing we're talking about.

00:43:22.000 It's like left-wing ideas used to be free speech is important.

00:43:27.000 I mean, that's why if you go back and, like, even in...

00:43:31.000 Like, left-wing magazines and...

00:43:35.000 Like, remember when Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley had that debate?

00:43:40.000 That was a brilliant moment, right?

00:43:43.000 Because that was kind of like one of the first podcasts.

00:43:46.000 Because they played it on...

00:43:47.000 If you haven't seen that...

00:43:48.000 What is the documentary about something best...

00:43:52.000 Something Enemies?

00:43:54.000 It's a great documentary.

00:43:55.000 But it shows that the network that put it on, I think it was ABC, was getting killed in the ratings.

00:44:01.000 And otherwise they would have never done this.

00:44:03.000 And so they just decided, like, let's just take a chance.

00:44:06.000 And it became this enormous success.

00:44:08.000 Because everybody was under Best of Enemies.

00:44:10.000 It's really fantastic.

00:44:12.000 It's a great documentary.

00:44:13.000 And, you know, William F. Buckley's kind of this stuffed shirt, kind of douchey right-wing guy with a pretty good vocabulary.

00:44:20.000 And Gore Vidal, who is brilliant, but a weirdo, man.

00:44:23.000 He wrote that nutty book about a transgender woman who, like, Raquel Welch played in the movie. 0.99

00:44:29.000 It's the craziest book. 0.81

00:44:32.000 That he turned into a movie.

00:44:34.000 It's a really nutty movie about, like, a guy becomes a woman and she's really hot and then becomes a man again. 0.87

00:44:40.000 And it's like there's a lot of sex in the movie. 0.98

00:44:42.000 Like, it's just like a perverted, bizarre, twisted movie. 0.97

00:44:45.000 Sounds very progressive, John.

00:44:47.000 It was! 0.99

00:44:48.000 It was so progressive that nobody understood what the fuck he was doing. 0.99

00:44:52.000 He was so far ahead of his time. 0.98

00:44:55.000 But, you know, that was the left back then.

00:44:58.000 You were kind of free to talk about anything.

00:45:03.000 But this is the thing that is fascinating about that Scottish bill.

00:45:07.000 Myra Breckenridge.

00:45:08.000 I bought it on DVD. I'm not surprised, mate.

00:45:11.000 Because you can't stream it anywhere.

00:45:13.000 Raquel Welch.

00:45:13.000 First of all, the idea that any man could ever look like Raquel Welch.

00:45:16.000 Like, shut the fuck up. 0.99

00:45:18.000 Unless she's in Thailand. 1.00

00:45:20.000 This is not...

00:45:22.000 The picture was controversial for sexual explicitness, including acts like female on male rape, but unlike the novel, received little to no critical praise and has been cited as one of the worst films ever made.

00:45:37.000 In subsequent decades, the film has developed a cult following.

00:45:40.000 It's a crazy movie.

00:45:42.000 It's so interesting, the way that things were seeded at one point in culture and now they've become mainstream.

00:45:50.000 I was at the gym and then the song Lola by The Kinks came out.

00:45:56.000 Yeah, transgender song. 0.96

00:45:57.000 Yeah, I'm not dumb but I can't understand why she walks like a woman and talks like a man. 1.00

00:46:02.000 Yeah, it's a great fucking song. 0.99

00:46:07.000 Yeah, yeah, and then you listen to it and you go this is really progressive and then it ends with I know what she is. 0.99

00:46:14.000 She's a man So and then I'm like well you'd get cancelled for this bit now, bro You know the craziest song the crazy song is brown sugar.

00:46:21.000 Oh, yeah Rolling Stone doesn't even play brown sugar anymore I went to see them in concert and they said they would not put what they've already said in interviews It's like it's too controversial song and then I saw the lyrics Like, I had only heard the song.

00:46:35.000 I had never, like, read the lyrics. 0.98

00:46:37.000 And so, you know when Team Mick Jagger's singing, it's hard to understand what the fuck he's saying. 0.97

00:46:42.000 You know, it's like, he's singing. 0.98

00:46:43.000 Like, he's making sounds out of the words that are pleasing.

00:46:47.000 More than he's communicating, like, really clearly.

00:46:50.000 Pull up the lyrics to Brown Sugar.

00:46:53.000 Wait till you read this.

00:46:55.000 Have you read it?

00:46:56.000 I remember some lines, but not the full thing.

00:46:59.000 Let's see this.

00:47:00.000 Bro.

00:47:01.000 This one is like, yo.

00:47:04.000 I saw an interview with Keith Richards where they were like, where the person said to him, and maybe this was Keith Richards fucking about with the journalist, where the journalist went, so, you know, obviously Brown Sugar's about heroin.

00:47:17.000 Yes. 0.99

00:47:17.000 And Keith Richards went, no, bro, it's about sleeping with black women. 0.99

00:47:21.000 And he went, okay, let's change the subject. 0.99

00:47:23.000 Not just black, it was slaves. 1.00

00:47:25.000 Gold Coast slave ship bound for cotton fields, sold in the market down in New Orleans. 0.93

00:47:31.000 Scarred old slaver knows he's doing all right.

00:47:34.000 Hear him whip the women just around midnight.

00:47:38.000 Brown sugar, how come you taste so good?

00:47:40.000 Brown sugar, just like a young girl should. 1.00

00:47:44.000 Drums beaten, cold English, blood runs hot.

00:47:47.000 Lady of the house wondering when it's going to stop.

00:47:50.000 House boy knows that he's doing alright.

00:47:53.000 You should have heard him just around midnight.

00:47:55.000 Brown sugar, brown sugar.

00:47:57.000 Oh, get it on, brown sugar. 0.90

00:48:00.000 How come he tastes so good, baby?

00:48:02.000 Okay. 0.97

00:48:03.000 Just like a black girl should. 1.00

00:48:04.000 Now I bet your mama was a tent show queen and all her boyfriends were sweet 16. I'm no schoolboy, but I know what I like.

00:48:13.000 You should have heard me just around midnight.

00:48:16.000 It's a crazy song.

00:48:18.000 It's a stone cold banger though.

00:48:19.000 It's a banger.

00:48:20.000 It's a banger.

00:48:21.000 It's a fantastic song.

00:48:22.000 But imagine if you put that song out today.

00:48:25.000 People would be like, yo! 1.00

00:48:27.000 What the fuck? 1.00

00:48:29.000 That should get you cancelled. 1.00

00:48:30.000 Like, if you did that at a Trump rally.

00:48:35.000 The Rolling Stones came out and did brown sugar at a Trump rally.

00:48:40.000 If they opened up, ladies and gentlemen, the Rolling Stones, and they did brown sugar.

00:48:45.000 Bro, but the world has changed so fast.

00:48:47.000 Yeah.

00:48:47.000 My wife and I watched Friends the other day.

00:48:51.000 You couldn't make friends now.

00:48:52.000 Right, right.

00:48:53.000 You can't.

00:48:54.000 We used to watch it regularly.

00:48:56.000 We watched one episode. 1.00

00:48:57.000 We were like, this is like, it's transphobic, it's racist, it's a whole bunch of shit. 1.00

00:49:03.000 That's why it's funny. 1.00

00:49:04.000 Well, have you ever seen Ace Ventura, Pet Detective?

00:49:07.000 Oh, yes! 1.00

00:49:08.000 Holy shit! 1.00

00:49:09.000 Try watching that again! 1.00

00:49:12.000 You're like, yo, you couldn't make this movie at all today.

00:49:15.000 So many great comedies. 0.96

00:49:17.000 There's no fucking way Tropic Thunder gets made today. 0.99

00:49:19.000 No way. 0.96

00:49:20.000 It's one of the greatest comedies of all time.

00:49:22.000 It's a phenomenal movie.

00:49:24.000 You couldn't make it.

00:49:25.000 Do you think this is outright a bad thing or outright a good thing?

00:49:29.000 Or do you think it's kind of halfway?

00:49:31.000 What do you make of it?

00:49:32.000 It's going to force courage.

00:49:34.000 Right?

00:49:35.000 Because people obviously want to see those kind of movies.

00:49:38.000 It's just someone's going to have to have the courage to make it.

00:49:40.000 And if they do have the courage to make it, it will get criticized, but it will also be wildly successful. 0.96

00:49:46.000 If they really went for it and made a Superbad today, like a fucking all-out crazy comedy... 0.98

00:49:54.000 It would be huge. 0.99

00:49:55.000 People would be so happy.

00:49:57.000 So the only people that are reaping the rewards of that desire for rebellion are comics.

00:50:02.000 We're the only ones.

00:50:04.000 Comics and podcasters and mostly podcasters are comics.

00:50:07.000 Like a lot of them are at least, at least the comedy podcasts.

00:50:10.000 But that's the thing.

00:50:11.000 There is now a vacuum.

00:50:13.000 There is now a vacuum for people to step in because it got to the point, particularly with TV comedy in the UK, and I remember saying it to comics and a comedy club, people's WhatsApp group is now funnier than TV comedy.

00:50:26.000 And part of the reason is because if everybody saw your WhatsApp group, we'd all be cancelled.

00:50:31.000 Right, right, right.

00:50:32.000 Especially the ones I have.

00:50:35.000 But it's not just you, man.

00:50:37.000 It's everybody.

00:50:38.000 Everybody's hiding, right?

00:50:40.000 Everybody's hiding. 1.00

00:50:40.000 It's talking shit, right? 1.00

00:50:42.000 This is what's fun about memes. 0.99

00:50:44.000 Like, I don't believe the thing in the meme is true, but it's funny.

00:50:48.000 It's a funny, crazy thing to say.

00:50:49.000 But why did we get to a point where we just believe that every joke was true, that every joke was a statement of fact?

00:50:58.000 We don't believe it, but certain people want to use it because they're words written on paper or words spoken out loud, and they want to use it as if it's a real statement.

00:51:07.000 Just like the analogy I made about Quentin Tarantino movies.

00:51:09.000 It's not really killing anybody in those movies.

00:51:11.000 It's like you want to pretend that this thing that this person's doing, you could decide it sucks, you could decide it's hateful, you don't like it, it's not your kind of comedy, it's punching down.

00:51:22.000 You can come up with all sorts of reasons why you don't like it.

00:51:24.000 But that's like the same kind of reasons why you don't like ACDC, you know, and you like Liz Phair.

00:51:30.000 Like everybody has their own thing that they like and don't like.

00:51:34.000 But you can't pretend that it's a statement.

00:51:36.000 It's not a statement.

00:51:37.000 It's comedy. 0.99

00:51:38.000 And I swear to God, if you see him do it on stage, it fucking kills. 0.99

00:51:42.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:51:43.000 This is why I am excited, though, man, because look at you.

00:51:45.000 You just had one former president, presidential candidate.

00:51:49.000 By the time of the next election, it's going to be everyone's going to be doing podcasts.

00:51:52.000 There's no getting away from it.

00:51:53.000 What's interesting is something happened.

00:51:57.000 I'm sure it was a mistake at YouTube where you couldn't search for it.

00:52:00.000 I'm sure it was a mistake.

00:52:02.000 It has to be a mistake, Joe.

00:52:03.000 There's no way that was on purpose.

00:52:04.000 And so if you Googled Rogan Trump, They got to Joe.

00:52:08.000 They got to Joe.

00:52:09.000 He's apologizing.

00:52:09.000 You could only get clips.

00:52:11.000 You couldn't watch the whole episode.

00:52:13.000 You couldn't find it.

00:52:14.000 And so we reached out to them a couple of times and they fixed it to their credit.

00:52:18.000 So now you can find it.

00:52:19.000 But so in the meantime, Elon was furious.

00:52:22.000 And so Elon contacted Daniel Ek at Spotify and they put it on Ekz as well.

00:52:27.000 So now it's on Ekz.

00:52:29.000 So now it has way more views.

00:52:31.000 Because I think on Elon's alone, what is it on Elon's alone?

00:52:35.000 Because Elon posted it and I posted it.

00:52:36.000 This morning, I posted it last night.

00:52:38.000 I woke up.

00:52:39.000 It was like six and a half million views on mine and eight plus million on his. 0.99

00:52:44.000 So it's just, you can't suppress shit. 0.99

00:52:48.000 It doesn't work. 1.00

00:52:49.000 This is the internet.

00:52:51.000 This is 2024. People are going to realize what you're doing.

00:52:53.000 If you try to make it so that something can't come up in a search engine because it's too popular. 0.99

00:52:58.000 First of all, If that's not trending, you tell me what the fuck is. 0.85

00:53:02.000 Okay, so what's it at now? 0.96

00:53:03.000 8.6 million on mine, and what's it at on Elon's?

00:53:07.000 Because he has a lot more people on his than me.

00:53:09.000 So that's just from last night. 1.00

00:53:11.000 But you can't fucking suppress shit anymore. 0.99

00:53:15.000 Like, when you're saying that that's... 0.99

00:53:17.000 Why is that not in the trending?

00:53:19.000 You have a trending thing?

00:53:21.000 What's your trending thing, really, then?

00:53:22.000 If one show has 36 million downloads in two days, like, that's not trending?

00:53:29.000 Like, what's trending for you?

00:53:30.000 Mr. Beast?

00:53:31.000 I know he gets a little more than that, but...

00:53:33.000 12 million for Elon.

00:53:34.000 So he's at 12. 20 million total.

00:53:36.000 It hit 20 million in a day just on X. And that's just us.

00:53:40.000 There's a ton of clips.

00:53:43.000 There's a ton of other accounts that have done it illegally where they've taken the episode, the full episode and uploaded it.

00:53:49.000 So who knows how many views those have.

00:53:51.000 So Joe, can I just check?

00:53:52.000 Why do you say you're certain it was just a mistake?

00:53:55.000 It's just a mistake.

00:53:57.000 I'm being sarcastic.

00:53:58.000 Oh, I didn't get that.

00:54:00.000 It was my turn to miss the sarcasm.

00:54:03.000 There's no way it was a mistake.

00:54:05.000 That's too convenient.

00:54:06.000 But it could have been some rogue engineer.

00:54:08.000 There's a lot of people that are working behind the scenes. 1.00

00:54:11.000 That is so dumb, though. 0.99

00:54:14.000 But there's a video. 0.99

00:54:14.000 You could watch the video of people searching for it. 0.99

00:54:18.000 I did it.

00:54:19.000 It wasn't showing up for me.

00:54:20.000 You couldn't find it.

00:54:21.000 I couldn't find it.

00:54:22.000 I couldn't find it.

00:54:22.000 And then it got to the point where you only had to write Joe Rogan—they fixed it a little—where you write Joe Rogan Trump interview, and then it would come up.

00:54:32.000 But if you just wrote Rogan Trump, only you get the clips.

00:54:36.000 Do you think— It kind of worked for the Hunter Biden laptop story, what they did and their tactics around it.

00:54:44.000 Now, obviously, it came out later and it was a big scandal, but at the time, it kind of worked.

00:54:49.000 Do you think they might have thought, well, you know, it kind of worked for this, therefore we should try it for this?

00:54:54.000 I think they're desperate because they had no idea it was going to be that popular and it's a runaway train and they hate it because ideologically they're opposed to the idea of him being more popular.

00:55:04.000 It's just like what we were talking about before, the left wing being in control of these massive Media distribution companies like YouTube or like Facebook.

00:55:14.000 They're massive companies They have so much influence on everything and they didn't like that this one was slipping away and so they did something and Jamie showed me like the image of the Interactions like when it when they did that it dropped off a cliff Because people couldn't find it so they just gave up or they just watch the clips So you see like how much downloads it's getting and then it just What about that claim about the reporting taking it down?

00:55:42.000 What's that?

00:55:42.000 Yeah, that could be it too, right?

00:55:44.000 They were saying that if you mass report something enough...

00:55:47.000 So what was the actual claim?

00:55:48.000 Like, somebody posted...

00:55:49.000 I sent it to you, right?

00:55:50.000 Basically what you're about to say.

00:55:51.000 If you mass report something enough, it might have just taken it out of the search.

00:55:54.000 Because it wasn't...

00:55:55.000 Like, they didn't delete the video from our channel or anything.

00:55:57.000 Right, right.

00:55:57.000 So that could be it.

00:55:58.000 They just couldn't find it in the search.

00:55:59.000 That could be it.

00:55:59.000 But that's also the same thing, right?

00:56:01.000 Because it's people that are on the left that are mass reporting something to try to silence it rather than just letting people do it.

00:56:07.000 So maybe it's not the company itself, but it's the people that are attached to the ideology that the company follows.

00:56:13.000 And they think that you should be able to do something about a conversation like that. 1.00

00:56:17.000 But it's so stupid, Joe. 1.00

00:56:19.000 It's so ridiculous. 1.00

00:56:20.000 Because I look at that and I go, like you said, all you're going to do is you're going to bring more eyeballs to it. 0.96

00:56:27.000 Because everyone's going to think, hang on, well, I'm definitely going to watch it now.

00:56:31.000 So I just don't understand.

00:56:34.000 And this is me being a little bit naive and whatever else.

00:56:37.000 And go, why not, for the Democrat Party, why don't you do this?

00:56:40.000 I know it's going to blow everyone's mind.

00:56:42.000 Why don't you get the best possible candidate that you can...

00:56:46.000 And just go in on Trump.

00:56:48.000 He's got flaws.

00:56:49.000 That's why this election is so dangerous.

00:56:52.000 The reason why this election is so dangerous is we've accepted that someone could be the representative without going through a primary.

00:56:59.000 So, because we had to get rid of Joe Biden, and everybody kind of agreed after the debate, like, oh my god, he's literally falling apart.

00:57:06.000 And they decided not to have a primary.

00:57:09.000 And so, once they do that, then you have the whole machine behind it, because there's a desperate attempt to redefine who this person is in front of everybody's eyes.

00:57:19.000 This person that everybody thought, like, uses word salad, and all of a sudden, now they're the number one person.

00:57:25.000 This is our savior.

00:57:27.000 Barack Obama's behind her.

00:57:29.000 Everybody's behind her.

00:57:30.000 Like, it has to happen like that.

00:57:31.000 And that's kind of crazy because they don't have much time and they're kind of manufacturing a thing.

00:57:39.000 So, like, they're going to try everything.

00:57:41.000 It's like a desperado time.

00:57:44.000 This is part of the problem with right now. 0.99

00:57:46.000 I would have thought they would have learned that lesson the last election because they tried this shit and it backfired massively. 0.97

00:57:52.000 That's why Zuckerberg is now stepping back from it. 0.98

00:57:54.000 I don't know if you saw Jeff Bezos' article in the Washington Post.

00:57:57.000 Yeah, I did.

00:57:58.000 It feels to me like at least among those guys, the tide is turning, man.

00:58:03.000 They don't seem to be keen to interfere in anything like the way that they did before.

00:58:07.000 And also as well, just a final point, it's not like the Dems don't have form for this as well.

00:58:11.000 Look what they did to Bernie in 2016. Right.

00:58:14.000 So you just go, what, again and again and again you're going to do it?

00:58:18.000 How are people going to have faith in your party?

00:58:20.000 Yeah, but people don't look at that.

00:58:22.000 Isn't that wild?

00:58:23.000 They don't look at the idea that Bernie was getting too popular.

00:58:26.000 And that was the first experience that I really had with getting attacked by the mainstream news. 0.99

00:58:32.000 Like CNN was saying that Bernie was on my show, that my show was sexist and racist or whatever the fuck it was. 0.98

00:58:41.000 And, you know, that Bernie was doing a terrible thing by coming on my show. 0.98

00:58:46.000 And that was when I saw, I was like, oh, they're trying to get rid of Bernie.

00:58:51.000 This is really interesting.

00:58:53.000 You have the most popular podcast in the country.

00:58:56.000 Why wouldn't he want to express his ideas out to the world?

00:58:59.000 Because they didn't want him, and he was appealing after that kind of a conversation.

00:59:04.000 And you're like, oh, so you're just going to take a fraction of a penny off of speculative trades, and you'll be able to fund all these things like education?

00:59:12.000 Really?

00:59:13.000 Can you really do that?

00:59:14.000 And I was like...

00:59:15.000 Okay.

00:59:16.000 Tell me what you can do. 0.99

00:59:17.000 Like, you've been around this fucking rodeo for a long-ass time. 0.98

00:59:20.000 Maybe this guy's got a way of looking at things that is, uh, maybe it'll work. 0.99

00:59:26.000 And then I saw the machine.

00:59:28.000 And then they got him out of the primaries.

00:59:29.000 I was like, whoa, this is kind of crazy.

00:59:33.000 They're willing to do that.

00:59:35.000 They did it with RFK. They would not let him have a primary.

00:59:39.000 They wouldn't allow him to compete against Joe Biden. 1.00

00:59:42.000 No fucking way. 0.99

00:59:44.000 They had one guy, and that was Joe Biden, until it wasn't. 0.99

00:59:47.000 And then when it wasn't, it was like, Kamala, you gotta be it and then they just went hard pushing her through and it worked really good until some of these interviews, right?

00:59:59.000 Because that those interview things are just a super unnatural way to talk You know you have live cameras in front of you and all these people and already She's got to be aware of how many people are hating on her. 0.95

01:00:11.000 She has to be aware She has to be aware of how many people don't think she deserves a spot. 0.98

01:00:16.000 She just got in and Joe, can I ask you something?

01:00:20.000 Who is the they, right? 1.00

01:00:22.000 This is the thing I'm genuinely wondering.

01:00:25.000 Who is the they that's trying to get Bernie not to run?

01:00:27.000 Well, first of all, it's the DNC, clearly, if you read Donna Rice's book.

01:00:34.000 But there's got to be, like, one guy or one gal at the top of that, right? 0.84

01:00:37.000 I don't think so.

01:00:38.000 I think there's an organization.

01:00:39.000 I think, you know, you've got your Nancy Pelosi's and all the people that are in power.

01:00:43.000 And one thing to consider if you're thinking about, like, why would they want Kamala Harris over anybody else?

01:00:49.000 Because, first of all, everybody who works in the administration right now is in the Biden-Harris administration.

01:00:54.000 They would like to keep those jobs.

01:00:56.000 Well, I'd like to keep this job.

01:00:57.000 What do I have to do to keep this job?

01:00:59.000 And those are essentially the people that are running the show because she's busy and he's not there.

01:01:04.000 So, like, those people want to keep their job.

01:01:06.000 So that's what you're experiencing right now.

01:01:09.000 But man, you know, sorry, Francis, just to finish.

01:01:12.000 Like, it sounds like a trite and rather obvious thing to say, but you're running to be the leader of the most powerful country in the world.

01:01:21.000 Right. 0.99

01:01:22.000 You've got to be able to fucking talk, man. 0.99

01:01:26.000 Yes, yes. 0.98

01:01:27.000 Well, if a primary- We don't even say this because it's so fucking obvious, but you've got to be able to communicate.

01:01:33.000 Well, that's why we have primaries, right?

01:01:35.000 Because being a leader is a little bit more than having qualifications, right?

01:01:41.000 It's being able to execute in real time under pressure.

01:01:44.000 That's what those debates are all about.

01:01:46.000 It's not just about, like, who's got the better ideas.

01:01:48.000 You could have them both write an article and find out who's got the better ideas.

01:01:51.000 It's about seeing them kind of perform under pressure and respond under pressure.

01:01:56.000 We want to see how you handle the cooker.

01:01:58.000 That's why we like those crowds, you know, when you do those debates in front of crowds.

01:02:03.000 It's a bigger cooker.

01:02:04.000 You know, we're trying to figure out whether or not you can handle it.

01:02:07.000 And by having no primary...

01:02:09.000 And having her just go right through.

01:02:11.000 And then keeping RFK Jr. away from Biden even before that.

01:02:15.000 This does not give a lot of people faith that you are following the ideals that this country was founded on.

01:02:22.000 And if you're going on your own way just because you want to win, you've kind of taken over this system and subverted it.

01:02:31.000 You've changed it.

01:02:31.000 Well, let's say you get elected, though.

01:02:33.000 You're going to be sitting across from Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin. 0.99

01:02:39.000 If you can't fucking talk, how's that gonna go? 0.99

01:02:42.000 Well, good thing they don't speak English. 0.99

01:02:49.000 You know, they're not worried at all.

01:02:53.000 But also, they have been doing that job for how long?

01:02:56.000 How long has Putin been in charge of Russia?

01:02:58.000 How many years now?

01:02:59.000 Since 1999, 25 years.

01:03:00.000 Okay, 25 years being a leader of Russia, and Xi Jinping controls China with an iron fist, and he's been doing that for how long?

01:03:07.000 I don't know, but a long time.

01:03:08.000 A long time.

01:03:09.000 So you have people that- it's one of the vulnerabilities of American politics is its strength.

01:03:14.000 And one of the strengths is that you don't have someone who stays in and just keeps running things and becomes a dictator.

01:03:20.000 You have to get out of there after eight years at most. 0.58

01:03:23.000 The bad part about it is every four fucking years we have someone who's new doing the hardest job in the world that's- they've never done it before. 0.97

01:03:32.000 Even Trump said at the beginning of his term, he did not know how to appoint people. 0.98

01:03:36.000 He didn't know who to trust.

01:03:38.000 And he trusted a bunch of people he shouldn't have trusted.

01:03:39.000 And he put a bunch of people in there that he shouldn't have put in.

01:03:42.000 So for years of that, he got a handle on it.

01:03:46.000 And now he has a completely different perspective.

01:03:48.000 Why?

01:03:48.000 Because he did the job already.

01:03:49.000 Because he's already been in there running it.

01:03:52.000 He goes, oh, kind of...

01:03:54.000 He's a businessman. 0.96

01:03:55.000 It's like, I see why this is fucking up, and I need to get smarter people in here. 0.94

01:03:59.000 And so what does he do? 0.87

01:03:59.000 He talks to Chamath about being the head of the FDA. He talks to Elon about coming up with some government efficiency agency. 0.87

01:04:08.000 He talks to RFK about taking care of healthcare.

01:04:12.000 He's, like, delegating to people that are very good at it now.

01:04:16.000 And, like, these people that could actually impart a real change. 0.94

01:04:21.000 Not like a sort of fucking fugazi change where you're just, like, putting on a different mask. 0.86

01:04:26.000 No, a real change of the system. 0.67

01:04:28.000 And that's one of the reasons why the resistance against it is so hard, because so many people are going to be out of work.

01:04:34.000 And you know what I found really interesting looking at the Democrats?

01:04:37.000 If you look back at the Bernie 2016 thing, they didn't appoint Bernie, they appointed their person, Hillary, right?

01:04:44.000 Trump took a lot of Bernie's talking points and went on and won the election.

01:04:49.000 Because it spoke to the average American.

01:04:52.000 And the average American felt no connection with Hillary whatsoever. 0.95

01:04:57.000 So you're actually going, if you had just got and been fair, Bernie might actually have won.

01:05:04.000 He might actually have won because he had cut through with the average American.

01:05:08.000 But they didn't want that.

01:05:09.000 They appointed their person and then they ended up losing.

01:05:12.000 And then they had a tantrum and said it was Russia interference and all the rest of it.

01:05:15.000 No, it was you.

01:05:17.000 You stopped the person who actually could have won the election for you, who could have cut through to the average American.

01:05:24.000 You didn't want that and you screwed it up for yourself.

01:05:27.000 And then you had a tantrum at the end of it blaming everyone.

01:05:30.000 And then there was also the polls, right?

01:05:32.000 The polls had her winning, like, by a huge margin.

01:05:35.000 I think on election night, it was like a 90% chance she was going to be the president, something crazy. 0.91

01:05:41.000 So for him to show that the polls were bullshit, It's good in a way, but it's also like now they're going to tighten things down significantly. 0.91

01:05:51.000 If the same sort of apparatus that would keep a guy like Bernie Sanders out or a guy like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. out, they're not playing fair. 0.97

01:05:59.000 They're not interested in playing fair.

01:06:01.000 They're interested in winning. 0.99

01:06:03.000 Whatever the fuck it takes to get through this thing and win. 0.99

01:06:06.000 They want to keep their jobs. 0.99

01:06:07.000 It's like...

01:06:08.000 They're they're engaging in corporate warfare.

01:06:11.000 It's like or legal fair It's like they're used they're weaponizing the justice system to go after their opponent They're doing everything they can all of the things.

01:06:19.000 What's your sense of how it's gonna go?

01:06:22.000 I have zero idea zero idea I do not like that people are suing to make sure that voter ID isn't required.

01:06:32.000 People are suing to stop people from using ID to vote.

01:06:39.000 The only reason why you would do that is you want people to vote that shouldn't be voting.

01:06:42.000 That's the only reason.

01:06:44.000 That doesn't make any sense.

01:06:45.000 You know, we've been here a week now.

01:06:46.000 I've had to show ID to get into a bar, to rent a car, to rent a hotel room.

01:06:51.000 Yeah. 0.66

01:06:52.000 It's just ridiculous. 1.00

01:06:53.000 Everyone has fucking ID. But the saying it's racist to require ID is so crazy. 1.00

01:06:57.000 Or it's bad for poor rural Americans to require ID. That's crazy.

01:07:02.000 They have cars.

01:07:03.000 Everyone has a car.

01:07:04.000 I saw some data on the internet.

01:07:06.000 It might be wrong, but it's showed that ethnic minorities actually have a higher support for ID for voting than white people. 1.00

01:07:13.000 Probably because they went through it to get a fucking ID. Right. 1.00

01:07:16.000 Right?

01:07:17.000 Ethnic minorities went through it, became American citizens, actually got the legal right to vote, they're proud of it, and they're like, hey, do what I did.

01:07:24.000 Don't just cheat.

01:07:26.000 You guys are cheating!

01:07:27.000 Seems like a reasonable point.

01:07:28.000 That's so reasonable!

01:07:30.000 But anybody who would say that that's not reasonable only wants to win, right?

01:07:35.000 You know, I'm pretty left of center for the most part.

01:07:38.000 And I see that.

01:07:40.000 I'm like, that's crazy.

01:07:41.000 You can't...

01:07:42.000 That doesn't make any sense at all.

01:07:44.000 You can't say people...

01:07:46.000 Don't need IDs because it's racist or it's whatever it is.

01:07:50.000 It's classist.

01:07:52.000 And the thing is, they talk about classes, right?

01:07:54.000 I used to work, when I was teaching, I used to work in a lot of deprived communities.

01:07:59.000 Really, really, people were struggling.

01:08:02.000 If people made it to the end of the week with food on the table and they paid their bills, That was a win.

01:08:07.000 That was an absolute win.

01:08:09.000 And having worked in those communities, those people are more anti-illegal immigration than the inverted commas elites.

01:08:17.000 Because illegal immigration brings down their wages. 1.00

01:08:21.000 It brings down their ability to earn.

01:08:25.000 It means that the jobs that they do get obliterated and they can no longer afford to feed their families.

01:08:32.000 It's basic economics. 0.99

01:08:33.000 So this idea that, oh, you know, immigration is a right-wing issue, it's bullshit. 0.97

01:08:39.000 Immigration is actually a left-wing issue. 0.95

01:08:42.000 And you look at all staunch what you would consider to be old-school lefties, they are all...

01:08:48.000 No!

01:08:49.000 We need to control immigration to protect the rights and wages of workers. 1.00

01:08:53.000 It's why when we had Brexit in our country, people said, oh, it's right-wing.

01:08:58.000 It wasn't.

01:08:59.000 I know so many blue-collar guys who voted Brexit.

01:09:02.000 They weren't racist.

01:09:03.000 They weren't any of those things.

01:09:05.000 But as one of them explained to me, he was like, look, Francis, I've got no problem with immigration.

01:09:09.000 But at this point, it just feels like my wages are getting lower and lower and lower.

01:09:14.000 I've got a kid on the way.

01:09:15.000 I can't afford to live on this.

01:09:17.000 And to then smear that person as right wing, it's obscene.

01:09:23.000 It's also you're giving power to the people that take advantage of these illegal immigrants, air quotes, because they can get those people to work for less money.

01:09:31.000 So you're empowering bad people to use cheap illegal labor.

01:09:37.000 And that becomes a problem because they'd use it all the time, especially if there's no inspections.

01:09:42.000 I mean, how many different plants have been busted across the country using illegal aliens? 0.99

01:09:47.000 It happens all the time.

01:09:48.000 Construction sites.

01:09:49.000 Happens all the time.

01:09:51.000 In fact, Tim Dillon said that that was one of the, he believes, one of the motivations of having the border so porous, he thinks, is to get cheap labor.

01:10:01.000 Because it's hard to get cheap labor.

01:10:02.000 And so if you're working a construction site and you got a bunch of illegals working for you, they have no rights. 0.99

01:10:07.000 You know, they can work for a fraction of the minimum wage and it's way more money than they were getting when they were in Mexico.

01:10:12.000 And then you're putting them up in a house so they all live together.

01:10:16.000 They're pickled peach. 1.00

01:10:19.000 They're fucking happy as shit. 1.00

01:10:21.000 They can't believe they're in America and they're actually making money and there's a road to at least some level of prosperity that exists here. 1.00

01:10:30.000 So they'll work for less money. 0.95

01:10:31.000 So you're empowering scumbags to pay people below, you know, standard wages. 0.92

01:10:37.000 And then you're crippling all the people that are the workers, who don't have any say, who are illegally, who are, you know, they know what they're supposed to get. 0.96

01:10:47.000 They demand fair wages and health insurance and all the things that you should get employees.

01:10:51.000 Yeah, and it's also as well, look, my mom's Venezuelan, so, and I've got family in this country, I know a lot of Venezuelan people in this country, and then I see what illegal Venezuelans are doing, like El Tren de Aragua, that gang.

01:11:06.000 I like how you rolled your bars on there, it's pretty good.

01:11:09.000 I always make fun of him for that.

01:11:11.000 You know, I'm just...

01:11:13.000 I'm Latino.

01:11:14.000 You did a good job.

01:11:16.000 I need to do it, otherwise no one believes me, Joe.

01:11:19.000 But, you know, I can tell you this for a fact.

01:11:22.000 Every single Venezuelan who came here legally works hard, went through the hoops, To escape Venezuela, to create a better life for themselves and their family, are utterly mortified and horrified at the actions of those criminals and what is happening in this country.

01:11:39.000 Because not only is it terrible for the victims, but it also reflects badly on us.

01:11:45.000 Like, you now go on Venezuelan and people think, oh what, like that criminal gang?

01:11:49.000 Well, it's also weird that it's taking place in what they call a sanctuary city, where the cops are kind of, they're handcuffed as to what they can do with these people.

01:11:58.000 And one of the weirdest ones was someone was having a conversation with this woman where they were talking about these gangs.

01:12:04.000 I forget who it was.

01:12:05.000 It might have been J.D. Vance.

01:12:07.000 I forget who it was.

01:12:08.000 But the woman was saying that it's only a couple of apartment complexes that have been taken over.

01:12:15.000 Who was that with?

01:12:16.000 I think it was J.D. Vance.

01:12:17.000 Yeah.

01:12:18.000 And he was like, do you hear yourself?

01:12:19.000 Right.

01:12:20.000 In the United States of America, armed gangs from Venezuela have taken over a couple of apartment buildings in your city.

01:12:28.000 And you think it's not a big deal?

01:12:30.000 You're trying to minimize that?

01:12:31.000 How crazy that is? 0.80

01:12:32.000 That illegal aliens who came across, who are armed to the tits, are part of a dangerous, enormous, organized gang, have taken over apartment buildings and are extorting all the people that live there. 0.90

01:12:42.000 And you don't think that's a problem?

01:12:44.000 That's wild.

01:12:45.000 And if you say that, they go, that's a right-wing talking part.

01:12:48.000 That's wild. 0.99

01:12:48.000 What are we fucking talking about? 0.99

01:12:50.000 What are we talking about? 1.00

01:12:50.000 What if your mom lives in that building? 1.00

01:12:52.000 Like, what are you talking about?

01:12:53.000 That's crazy.

01:12:55.000 You're saying crazy things.

01:12:57.000 It doesn't make any sense.

01:12:58.000 It doesn't.

01:12:58.000 And, you know, we were in L.A. last year.

01:13:01.000 And because I have a Russian name, you know all the Lyft and Uber drivers in L.A., they're all Armenian, right?

01:13:06.000 So they all speak Russian.

01:13:07.000 They recognize my name.

01:13:08.000 So they talk to me in Russian.

01:13:11.000 The...

01:13:12.000 The guys who came in the 90s, they all came legally.

01:13:15.000 They got their documentation and everything.

01:13:17.000 One guy was telling me he smuggled his 83-year-old father, who's disabled, in a wheelchair through the southern border.

01:13:25.000 Like, all the guys that are coming now are coming through the southern border.

01:13:28.000 They're not getting documentation.

01:13:29.000 Why would you bother?

01:13:30.000 Right.

01:13:31.000 Why would you bother?

01:13:32.000 And that...

01:13:33.000 You can't...

01:13:34.000 Americans are the most pro-immigration people that I've ever seen.

01:13:37.000 But I also think when you have high levels of illegal immigration, that undermines people's confidence in the entire system.

01:13:45.000 And the worst thing is it doesn't make any logical sense.

01:13:48.000 Can anyone explain to you why it is beneficial to America to have an open border?

01:13:53.000 What is the benefit to Americans? 0.55

01:13:54.000 I think 84% of Americans don't agree with it. 1.00

01:13:58.000 Well, no shit. 0.99

01:13:58.000 I think it's a large number of Americans don't agree with it, and yet it's happening. 0.99

01:14:02.000 And the real fear is that it's being used to buy votes.

01:14:06.000 That's the real fear.

01:14:08.000 Do you believe that, though?

01:14:09.000 It's a great strategy.

01:14:10.000 If I wanted to buy votes, I mean, if I was a sociopath, right, which is what a corporation really is, right? 0.81

01:14:16.000 As a psychopath, how do they... 0.71

01:14:18.000 Isn't that...

01:14:18.000 There's a great book about that, right?

01:14:20.000 Defining a corporation as a psychopath, as we talked about before this...

01:14:25.000 Need to constantly grow, and this obligation to your shareholders to do whatever it takes to make the most amount of money.

01:14:33.000 If you were a corporation and you wanted to control the whole country, what would you do?

01:14:37.000 Well, I would incentivize people to vote one way, and I would move them in and make their life way better than it ever was before, and then let them in, and the other side saying, we're going to deport you.

01:14:48.000 Well then, the other side's definitely not who you're gonna vote for.

01:14:50.000 So now all I have to do is let you vote.

01:14:54.000 So I can either let you vote by telling you how you don't need ID, just go ahead and vote.

01:14:58.000 I can do it by offering amnesty to a certain amount of people.

01:15:02.000 And then there's this thing that they keep saying that these people are here legally.

01:15:06.000 But the way they're here legally is a new thing.

01:15:10.000 And this new thing that they started doing during COVID is they use this shipping app To schedule amnesty meetings now.

01:15:18.000 So they allow you to get into the country with this app that was really only for shipping.

01:15:23.000 Pull that app up again, Jamie.

01:15:25.000 So this app was originally used, so like say if you came here from England or whatever and you wanted to sell some stuff, you could be here for a while while you're shipping and bringing your stuff over.

01:15:35.000 This is like a way that you could register so they know where you are and then you could leave.

01:15:39.000 So now they changed it during COVID and made it so this app now allows you to schedule an entrance into the country.

01:15:48.000 So you don't have to have...

01:15:49.000 There's no vetting.

01:15:50.000 There's no checking on you.

01:15:52.000 There's no who you are.

01:15:53.000 But through this app, you could schedule time.

01:15:55.000 They'll compensate you.

01:15:56.000 They put you up.

01:15:57.000 They bring you to places.

01:15:58.000 So this is U.S. Customs Border Protection app.

01:16:02.000 So it's...

01:16:05.000 CBP1, Mobile Passport Control, MPC, and MyCBP.

01:16:10.000 So it was launched in October 2020. CBP1 is a free app that provides access to a variety of CBP services.

01:16:17.000 It uses guided questions to help users find the right services, forms, or applications.

01:16:22.000 CBP1 was originally used to help commercial trucking companies schedule cargo inspections.

01:16:29.000 In 2023, the app was expanded to allow unauthorized migrants to request asylum and book appointments at the U.S.-Mexico border.

01:16:38.000 But that's good.

01:16:38.000 You want people to book an asylum appointment so that you could make sure whether they're legitimate claimants or not.

01:16:44.000 That's a good thing, right?

01:16:45.000 The problem is when people are allowed in and they don't have a good case, right?

01:16:50.000 Because America would let some people in who claim asylum.

01:16:53.000 I think the American people are very generous in that way.

01:16:54.000 I wonder how many people they deny that try to use that app.

01:16:57.000 That's a different question.

01:16:58.000 The real question is why are so many of them showing up in swing states?

01:17:02.000 That's the real question.

01:17:04.000 That seems a little suspect.

01:17:06.000 If you're moving people to swing states and then you have people like Nancy Pelosi and I forget who else it was...

01:17:13.000 They were making the argument that we need immigrants because Americans are not having enough babies.

01:17:18.000 You know, this is Elon's argument.

01:17:20.000 He's made this population collapse argument, which doesn't seem right to people because they're stuck in traffic, but it is right. 0.65

01:17:25.000 If you really pay attention to the amount of people that are actually having children and what it's going to be like in the future, South Korea apparently is a gigantic disaster.

01:17:34.000 Japan as well.

01:17:35.000 We had this guy Stephen Shaw on the show to talk about.

01:17:37.000 He did a great documentary about it.

01:17:39.000 He went all around the world looking at population.

01:17:42.000 Decline. 1.00

01:17:42.000 And it is a real fucking problem. 1.00

01:17:44.000 It's a real problem. 1.00

01:17:45.000 It's a real problem. 1.00

01:17:46.000 And so their argument, and this is a, I think it's a bullshit argument. 0.99

01:17:49.000 It's like, we're letting these people in because Americans aren't having any babies. 0.99

01:17:52.000 Like, oh, you just figured that out? 0.99

01:17:53.000 Yeah, but this is, see, this is, this is, this is such bullshit though, because America has a legal immigration system. 0.98

01:18:01.000 You could have billions of people coming to the United States legally. 0.97

01:18:04.000 If you needed babies, there's a queue of a billion people who would come to America legally if you let them. 0.99

01:18:09.000 Right.

01:18:09.000 That is not an argument for legal immigration.

01:18:11.000 How much can you learn about someone in a short period of time when they're coming to the border?

01:18:16.000 Because there's those numbers of, I think it's over the last 10 years, how many murderers have come through, how many rapists have come through.

01:18:22.000 It's staggering numbers, right?

01:18:23.000 And then there's the unreported ones.

01:18:25.000 A lot of these gang members, they snuck in.

01:18:27.000 The coast is wide open.

01:18:29.000 The coast is weird. 0.96

01:18:30.000 You could be in a boat and beat yourself in San Diego and no one knows what the fuck to do. 0.51

01:18:34.000 And then you jump out and you're in a van. 0.96

01:18:36.000 There's a lot of that stuff goes on.

01:18:37.000 So it's like, how many people are actually getting in that aren't reported?

01:18:41.000 That's the real question.

01:18:42.000 And they know that they've caught people that are on the terrorist watch list.

01:18:46.000 They know they've caught people at the border that absolutely are up to no good.

01:18:51.000 So it's like, how many people didn't they catch?

01:18:53.000 How many people snuck through?

01:18:57.000 How in danger are we because of that?

01:18:59.000 How much of an October 7 type attack could happen in the United States because of that?

01:19:03.000 To say no percentage is crazy.

01:19:06.000 So to say that it's possible means that you've been derelict in your duty.

01:19:10.000 You haven't saved us from the potential of us being invaded.

01:19:14.000 And it's also as well, then what you are naturally going to get, if that is a concern, a major concern for the average working person, you are going to get a politician who is going to address those concerns and is going to make it front and center of their campaign.

01:19:31.000 Of course they are.

01:19:32.000 Because that is politics and that's how it works and that's a good thing.

01:19:36.000 You need those people to address the concerns of ordinary people.

01:19:39.000 But then they come in and then they start going, this is a Nazi rally, this is so...

01:19:45.000 And you're just going, oh, not only do you not want to have the conversation, not only do you want to justify your ideas, you want to bully, smear and harass those people with perfectly legitimate concerns.

01:19:58.000 Yes.

01:19:59.000 In order to shut them up.

01:20:01.000 So what you're going to get is what happens when someone has a very real concern about something and you smear them and you call them horrendous names.

01:20:10.000 Those concerns aren't going to go anywhere.

01:20:12.000 They're going to get really angry, they're going to fester, and eventually it will turn into something nasty.

01:20:19.000 Yes.

01:20:20.000 And so...

01:20:21.000 By doing this and continually ratcheting up the police, like a pressure cooker, continually ratcheting up the pressure, eventually it's going to boil over.

01:20:31.000 And I look at them and I think to myself, do you know the forces that you are messing with?

01:20:37.000 Do you understand what you're doing?

01:20:40.000 Because eventually, this is going to turn nasty.

01:20:43.000 And I really don't want it to.

01:20:45.000 I hope it doesn't.

01:20:47.000 But you can only do this place so many times before people go, you know what?

01:20:52.000 You're gonna do that? 1.00

01:20:53.000 Fuck you. 1.00

01:20:53.000 And this is what I'm gonna do. 1.00

01:20:55.000 Yeah, and they run the risk of that in Aurora, Colorado.

01:20:57.000 They really do.

01:20:58.000 They run the risk of that with these gangs taking over apartment buildings and them not stopping it.

01:21:03.000 All of it's very scary, because that's what everyone's worried about.

01:21:06.000 What everyone's worried is that our level of crime is going to rise up, because you're bringing people from crime-ridden areas that have criminal backgrounds, and you're letting them in without vetting them, and you're going to increase the crime.

01:21:15.000 And you're going to increase organized crime and cartel crime.

01:21:17.000 That scares the fuck out of people, and it should.

01:21:19.000 And you can't let that in just because you want to win. 0.73

01:21:22.000 You can't let that in as a side effect of this goal that you have to bring in these people that are probably wonderful people that just want a better life, and they take this crazy journey where they walk on foot across the country.

01:21:36.000 I would do it, too.

01:21:37.000 I would 100% do it, too, and I think you would as well.

01:21:39.000 If you were living in those countries and the Red Cross gave you a map and said, this is what you got to do, you got to make it up here and go to these people to give you a cell phone, like, okay, you would do it.

01:21:48.000 Why wouldn't you do it?

01:21:49.000 If they know you're going to get let in and then you get money and food stamps and they'll put you up at a house?

01:21:54.000 What?

01:21:55.000 Of course you'd do it.

01:21:56.000 And then you have these places like New York City where these enormous luxury hotels are completely occupied.

01:22:03.000 With immigrants. 0.99

01:22:04.000 What was that movie that that luxury hotel was in?

01:22:07.000 There's like a famous movie.

01:22:09.000 Is it the Jennifer Lopez movie, Made in Manhattan?

01:22:11.000 Is that the movie where they have those people...

01:22:14.000 Hold up.

01:22:15.000 Find out if that's it.

01:22:16.000 But it's like a famous luxury hotel. 0.99

01:22:20.000 And then all the poor people in America are like, hey, motherfucker, what about us? 0.99

01:22:25.000 What about us? 1.00

01:22:26.000 What about the veterans?

01:22:27.000 What about homeless people?

01:22:28.000 What about all these people that are down on their luck?

01:22:30.000 What about all these people that are single moms? 0.99

01:22:32.000 All these people that have no money?

01:22:33.000 What about them?

01:22:34.000 Well, this is the question I'd be asking.

01:22:36.000 You mentioned 84% of Americans are concerned about this.

01:22:39.000 If I was a Democrat, That's what I'd be asking.

01:22:42.000 Here it is, the Roosevelt Hotel.

01:22:44.000 Wow.

01:22:45.000 That is crazy.

01:22:46.000 The Roosevelt Hotel is a famous hotel, and look how beautiful it is on the inside.

01:22:51.000 It was just over a year ago when the Roosevelt Hotel...

01:22:54.000 ...and became the one-stop shop...

01:22:59.000 So this entire hotel...

01:23:01.000 So if you're a hotel guy, right, and Homelands, whoever it is that runs this program, comes along and says, hey, we'll fully occupy your hotel...

01:23:13.000 24-7 will give you X amount of money.

01:23:17.000 Maybe it's more money than you would get if you were at full occupation.

01:23:21.000 You're like, okay.

01:23:22.000 Sounds like a great deal.

01:23:23.000 And so now you have housing for all these people.

01:23:26.000 And then the people that are living here are very upset.

01:23:29.000 And they should be.

01:23:31.000 You see it all the time. 0.99

01:23:32.000 People in Chicago are fucking fed up, man. 0.98

01:23:34.000 They're like, we've been trying to solve the crime and the poverty problem here forever. 0.98

01:23:40.000 Citi would not say how much it costs to keep the facility running every day, but Immigrant Affairs Commissioner Manuel Castro emphasized how the cost should be coming from the federal government.

01:23:50.000 We hope that the federal government does more in support of asylum seekers.

01:23:55.000 Okay.

01:23:55.000 Well, it's like what you said.

01:23:56.000 The federal government is giving money to hotel owners.

01:23:59.000 Yeah.

01:23:59.000 And so everybody's happy.

01:24:00.000 Yeah.

01:24:01.000 Everybody's happy, except the people of America.

01:24:03.000 Well, except the people that have to deal with the problems that come along with allowing people in that aren't vetted.

01:24:08.000 You know, especially people that come from a place where it's violent, you know, and crime is rampant and normal.

01:24:15.000 Well, this is what I was going to say.

01:24:17.000 It's like, if I were one of those Democrats who secretly harbored these concerns, the question I'd be asking is, why isn't my party...

01:24:27.000 If all of America basically agrees this is a problem, why is it a party political issue?

01:24:33.000 Why isn't it a thing that both parties agree on, by the way, as they used to?

01:24:38.000 All the major Democrat figures 20 years ago, I had a whole chapter in my book about it.

01:24:42.000 They all used to say exactly what Donald Trump is saying now.

01:24:46.000 Yeah.

01:24:46.000 Yeah, they do.

01:24:47.000 And especially Barack Obama.

01:24:49.000 You know, he talked very...

01:24:50.000 Clinton, Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, all of them.

01:24:53.000 They all talked about the importance of a secure, safe border.

01:24:56.000 It's always been an issue because you want to protect American citizens.

01:24:59.000 It's not racist.

01:25:00.000 Like, I'm all for immigration.

01:25:01.000 I just think maybe we need to spend more money on letting people in legally.

01:25:06.000 But how do you vet those folks?

01:25:07.000 That's the real question.

01:25:08.000 Like, how much paperwork do they have?

01:25:10.000 How much of a...

01:25:11.000 It's pretty thorough, man.

01:25:12.000 Like, Francis and I have had to apply for visas to come.

01:25:14.000 Right, but you guys did it legally the right way.

01:25:16.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:25:16.000 But they look everywhere, man.

01:25:18.000 Like, every cavity is fucking examined, you know what I mean? 0.93

01:25:20.000 But even people coming through, I mean, if they're coming through the wrong way, and you want to vet them, how can you even? 0.95

01:25:28.000 You can.

01:25:28.000 Can you?

01:25:29.000 Really?

01:25:30.000 I don't think it's beyond the American system.

01:25:33.000 But if you're from a third world country with very little paperwork, how do they do that?

01:25:39.000 Interviews, I would guess.

01:25:40.000 They try and find out where you live.

01:25:43.000 Oh my god, how much resources would that require? 0.99

01:25:45.000 Yeah, but compare that to how much resources it requires to host people in a five fucks and star fucking hotel. 0.99

01:25:50.000 Yeah, very good point. 0.99

01:25:50.000 You could be talking to those people the entire time. 0.99

01:25:52.000 So, where are you from, Bob?

01:25:54.000 What'd you do over there?

01:25:55.000 Where'd you get those scars? 0.97

01:25:56.000 America would save a lot of money if it put a lot more money into finding out who's coming here, making sure people have a legitimate claim, they've applied legally, and then you're spending the money where it's supposed to be spent, and then you've got a safe fucking country. 0.91

01:26:10.000 Yeah, and then...

01:26:11.000 And this is a really important point when people go, because they do the argument about, look, we have to let these people in.

01:26:20.000 You're letting people smugglers flourish.

01:26:22.000 You're letting sex traffickers flourish.

01:26:25.000 How many of those poor women and kids are getting brought over and basically being turned into a sex slave? 1.00

01:26:31.000 They've got no identity.

01:26:33.000 They've got no rights.

01:26:35.000 How many of them are now in this country?

01:26:36.000 No one knows.

01:26:37.000 It's not zero.

01:26:38.000 No.

01:26:38.000 It's not zero.

01:26:39.000 It's a real concern.

01:26:41.000 And that's not something that's being brought up.

01:26:42.000 Instead, they're bringing up Tony Hinchcliffe's joke.

01:26:44.000 Right.

01:26:45.000 Right?

01:26:45.000 Because this is an inconvenient political issue that is very dangerous.

01:26:49.000 The Republicans harp on it.

01:26:51.000 The Democrats ignore it and minimize it.

01:26:53.000 It's a giant issue.

01:26:54.000 The human smuggling thing is a giant issue.

01:26:57.000 There's something like 300,000 kids that are missing that came across the border.

01:27:00.000 They have no idea where they are.

01:27:02.000 There's so many people.

01:27:04.000 I mean, what is the number over the last four years that have come across illegally?

01:27:09.000 What's even the estimate?

01:27:10.000 What's the estimated number of crossings?

01:27:12.000 It's the highest ever that's ever been in modern history.

01:27:16.000 I think under Biden has been around 10 million total from what I've read, but I'm sure we'll check us on that.

01:27:20.000 Boy, that is five Austins.

01:27:23.000 Yeah.

01:27:23.000 I mean, and what effect is that having on society?

01:27:28.000 Because also, there's a law of unintended consequences.

01:27:30.000 What's going to be the effect, not only now, but five years down the line, 10 years down the line, 20 years down the line?

01:27:36.000 Do they have jobs for these people?

01:27:38.000 Here's the thing.

01:27:39.000 Well, they do for like $2 an hour, yeah.

01:27:41.000 Right, but here's the thing, like if there was more American manufacturing, and this is one of the things that Trump really wants to pursue, is incentivizing American manufacturing and putting tariffs on things that are brought in from overseas.

01:27:54.000 If there's more American manufacturing, first of all, one of the things that was exposed during COVID, it was a big one, was how much we rely on stuff that comes from other countries, you know, especially medications.

01:28:03.000 A lot of it was coming from China.

01:28:05.000 And there's a lot of equipment, a lot of things got stuck.

01:28:08.000 So here it is.

01:28:10.000 What's the number?

01:28:11.000 Did you say the number, Jamie?

01:28:12.000 11 million since 2019, I think.

01:28:14.000 11 million, yeah.

01:28:16.000 This article's also, like, not blaming, but saying a lot has to do with, in 2023, the end of Title 42, where they couldn't expel people for COVID-related reasons anymore.

01:28:26.000 And then that, I don't know.

01:28:27.000 How many people they tested for COVID that coming across the Rio Grande River with a backpack?

01:28:31.000 Right. 1.00

01:28:32.000 Shut the fuck up. 1.00

01:28:33.000 The one thing I wish the right did better on this, though, is to talk in more humane terms about it. 1.00

01:28:37.000 It's always, there is a kind of like, these fucking illegals. 1.00

01:28:41.000 Right, right, right. 1.00

01:28:42.000 We would all do what they're doing.

01:28:44.000 We would.

01:28:45.000 Yeah, and the way they talk about it, you know, like Trump did that too.

01:28:50.000 They're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats.

01:28:53.000 Also, a lot of them are very hard workers.

01:28:55.000 If you talk to Springfield, Ohio, one of the things that these people that employ some of these people are saying is they're so thankful that they have this opportunity there.

01:29:04.000 Haitians are just like everybody else, man. 1.00

01:29:07.000 They're just fucking people that want to do better. 0.99

01:29:09.000 And a lot of these people that hire these folks are saying they're super hard workers, they're doing jobs that nobody wants, they're very thankful for it, it's an opportunity for them. 0.99

01:29:17.000 And then also you have bad people.

01:29:19.000 Just like all groups of people that come from war-torn, fucked-up places, and they come over here, you're gonna have good ones and bad ones. 1.00

01:29:27.000 I'm just saying, I just wish that ire, which is perfect, like what you're saying, Francis, this is the point you made very well, is like, you just wish that ire was directed at the people who are allowing this to happen instead of the people who are coming, because that's not going to make things better either.

01:29:42.000 What we need is, we need to vet people, but also we need protections to make sure that people aren't being forced to work for inhumane wages. 0.95

01:29:50.000 And if we start doing that in America, we're no different than Foxconn in China with the fucking suicide nets around the building. 0.83

01:29:57.000 We're allowing people to take advantage of people that have no hope. 0.96

01:30:02.000 One of the great things about American manufacturing, if you have a plant in America and you have regulations in terms of what they're supposed to be paid and healthcare and the amount of hours they work...

01:30:16.000 You can ensure that you don't have to feel bad about buying a thing from those people.

01:30:33.000 It's made in America.

01:30:34.000 So then, wait, you don't have to feel bad that, like, that's what's going on with all these people coming across here, ironically. 0.98

01:30:41.000 They moved so many jobs and so many things over to Mexico to get people to work for almost nothing so that these fucking corporations can make a little bit more money. 1.00

01:30:50.000 And we allowed that to happen. 0.99

01:30:51.000 And when we allowed that to happen, they killed American manufacturing.

01:30:55.000 They killed it.

01:30:56.000 That's that Roger and Me movie.

01:30:58.000 Have you ever seen Michael Moore's documentary on it about Flint, Michigan?

01:31:01.000 It's a great documentary, but they just pulled out of Michigan, where they were making all the cars, and then these people have nothing.

01:31:08.000 They were check to check while they were working there, and then instant Extreme poverty.

01:31:15.000 It's a horrifying documentary.

01:31:17.000 And what these people don't realize is the effects that has on the community, not only the poverty element of it, but work brings dignity, Joe.

01:31:27.000 It brings purpose.

01:31:28.000 Yes.

01:31:29.000 It doesn't matter, like, you know, the level of job that you have, but if you're going out, particularly for men, and you're doing a job, maybe you hate it, but you know what?

01:31:38.000 You're earning enough money, you can feed your kids, you can feed your family, you go, I'm doing my job as a man.

01:31:44.000 I am doing what I am meant to do.

01:31:46.000 When you take those jobs, which a lot of, like, for instance, in our country, in the UK, a lot of these places were built around the factory.

01:31:55.000 The plant, they were the literal hub of the community, and then you had bars and cafes and restaurants around that.

01:32:01.000 When you take that out of a community, you are ripping the literal soul out of it.

01:32:06.000 And all of a sudden, these people who once had purpose and dignity have got nothing.

01:32:12.000 And it doesn't matter.

01:32:13.000 Even if you give them money and you go, look, here's your benefits.

01:32:16.000 Nobody wants that.

01:32:18.000 Nobody wants a life that's aimless.

01:32:20.000 Nobody wants a life where you are dependent on handouts.

01:32:24.000 This is what scares me about the future, really, because of AI. What scares me about the future, and Andrew Yang was really the first guy to bring this up.

01:32:32.000 He was talking about automation, and I think that automation and AI, they built a whole road in China in a very short period of time, just using robots and AI. Did you see that?

01:32:46.000 I didn't know.

01:32:46.000 They're much more advanced than we are with drone technology.

01:32:50.000 Have you seen some of the light show, drone shows that they do in China?

01:32:55.000 They're unbelievable.

01:32:58.000 Unbelievable.

01:32:59.000 Like dragons moving across the sky.

01:33:01.000 It's incredible.

01:33:01.000 All these drones moving in synchronicity.

01:33:04.000 They're all coordinated by AI and computers.

01:33:06.000 And they're flying together, making objects in the sky.

01:33:10.000 It's beautiful.

01:33:12.000 So their AI technology and their drone technology and their automation has already allowed them...

01:33:17.000 This was a resurfacing project, it says.

01:33:19.000 Here it is.

01:33:20.000 So this is no humans, man.

01:33:22.000 This is all robots. 1.00

01:33:24.000 And they did this shit in record time. 1.00

01:33:26.000 They did the whole road. 1.00

01:33:28.000 Like, if you're a guy who this is your livelihood, you should be fucking terrified. 0.83

01:33:33.000 And that was the source of this recent... 0.96

01:33:39.000 This recent thing that was going on with the Longshoremen's Union, right? 0.97

01:33:42.000 Because the Longshoremen were going to go on strike and they're like, hey, we're going to get fucking replaced. 0.97

01:33:47.000 We know what's going on here. 0.96

01:33:48.000 We want some protections in place.

01:33:50.000 Because they see what's happening.

01:33:51.000 In other countries, I think it's...

01:33:52.000 Is it Singapore that has a completely...

01:33:56.000 Automated system for removing cargo and you watch it and it works 24 hours a day.

01:34:01.000 You don't have to pay it.

01:34:02.000 It doesn't have kids.

01:34:03.000 No injuries.

01:34:03.000 No injuries and it's really good.

01:34:06.000 They're fucking super effective and they're gonna get more effective. 0.89

01:34:09.000 So you have less mistakes. 0.98

01:34:11.000 You completely eliminate human error.

01:34:14.000 You know, and then once they iron the systems out and they get them even better and better and more robust, you're gonna have no need for so many people that are working.

01:34:23.000 So what do you do?

01:34:23.000 You give them universal basic income?

01:34:26.000 You tell them find something that gives you purpose?

01:34:28.000 Like, oh Christ! 0.98

01:34:30.000 At the same time, they have AI goggles and fucking, they're watching virtual reality all day and they're not even living in the world anymore. 0.99

01:34:38.000 You're just getting a check from the government and free food? 1.00

01:34:40.000 And an AI girlfriend. 0.99

01:34:41.000 And an AI girlfriend that makes you kill yourself. 0.57

01:34:43.000 So there are plus points. 0.99

01:34:45.000 I mean, it could get really fucking strange in this country in a short amount of time.

01:34:51.000 But you talk to these people, right? 0.57

01:34:52.000 You talk to Elon.

01:34:53.000 What does he say about stuff like that?

01:34:55.000 They all think it's inevitable.

01:34:57.000 I think they're all right.

01:34:58.000 I don't think you could stop it unless something disastrous happens, like a nuclear war or some sort of a horrific natural disaster that kills the grid.

01:35:06.000 We are probably just a decade away from an unrecognizable world.

01:35:14.000 2014 is not that different than 2024. It's kind of real similar.

01:35:18.000 Cars look the same.

01:35:20.000 You still have an iPhone.

01:35:21.000 It's not that you still have a laptop.

01:35:23.000 How much is different?

01:35:23.000 Your internet's a little faster.

01:35:25.000 How much is different?

01:35:26.000 Not that much. 0.98

01:35:27.000 2024 to 2034 is going to be fucking bananas. 0.94

01:35:32.000 We could see a complete upheaval of society. 0.84

01:35:35.000 If you have one party that's completely in control of the political process, you know like there's no room for a third party now because they've kind of boxed out The third party.

01:35:43.000 There's libertarians, but like, good luck.

01:35:46.000 Good luck.

01:35:47.000 I voted for a couple of them.

01:35:48.000 Good luck.

01:35:49.000 They can't win, right?

01:35:51.000 Maybe you could get to that point where Republicans can't win.

01:35:54.000 That could be real.

01:35:55.000 And then the Democrats are going to act just like all tyrants, all groups of people that have massive control over everything.

01:36:01.000 They don't want to relinquish some control for the sake of democracy. 1.00

01:36:06.000 Shut the fuck up. 1.00

01:36:07.000 The only people that have ever did that were the Greeks, and they were on drugs. 1.00

01:36:10.000 They were doing acid.

01:36:12.000 And they said, hey, everybody should have a vote.

01:36:14.000 You know, and if you have a populace that is basically just dependent on handouts, what you've got is a docile, defeated population.

01:36:23.000 Yes.

01:36:24.000 Dependent.

01:36:24.000 They're dependent on you for survival.

01:36:26.000 They're dependent on you for survival, so it's not even in their interest to challenge you.

01:36:30.000 It's completely outside their interest.

01:36:32.000 They have no leverage. 0.99

01:36:34.000 They have no fuck you money. 0.99

01:36:35.000 So, you know, what are they going to do? 0.99

01:36:38.000 The thing that worries me is I was reading about the driving jobs and how many driving jobs there are in this country.

01:36:46.000 And driving is still a very, very well-paid job in this country.

01:36:49.000 If you're a lorry driver, you earn a really good salary in this country.

01:36:53.000 And that's great.

01:36:54.000 That's brilliant.

01:36:55.000 But the moment automated driving comes in, that's a whole swathe of mainly men who have got nowhere to go. 0.95

01:37:03.000 It's a very good point.

01:37:04.000 It's millions of jobs.

01:37:05.000 So they think it's inevitable, huh?

01:37:07.000 Yeah, they think it's inevitable, yeah.

01:37:09.000 I agree with them.

01:37:10.000 I don't know how we adjust to that.

01:37:12.000 You know, human beings have had to make some major adjustments over the course of human history, right?

01:37:17.000 Moving into cities, dealing with mechanized things like cars and trucks and trains.

01:37:24.000 These are massive adjustments that we had to make.

01:37:26.000 But I don't think any of them are like this one.

01:37:28.000 Yeah, this is the industrial revolution on steroids.

01:37:30.000 Yeah, and it's also coming at the same time as transhumanism.

01:37:35.000 It's coming at the same time as this potential integration with artificial intelligence that we're experiencing.

01:37:43.000 Augmented goggles, which is like the tip of the spear, and then you're going to eventually get chips.

01:37:48.000 You know, once things like Neuralink and there's a few other competing programs, once they develop something that enhances human productivity, enhances your mental capacity, your ability to perform, maybe physical capacity, 0.95

01:38:04.000 You know, they're gonna be able to do things in our lifetime that are gonna make being a regular human seem stupid. 0.99

01:38:12.000 Just like being naked in the cold seems stupid. 1.00

01:38:15.000 Like, why would you be naked? 1.00

01:38:16.000 You could just be warm, you fucking idiot. 1.00

01:38:19.000 They're freezing when you can have a nice down jacket on, you fucking moron. 1.00

01:38:23.000 And that's what it's gonna be like cognitively. 1.00

01:38:25.000 Like, why would you want to be depressed when you can have clarity and enlightenment?

01:38:29.000 And you could have instantaneous access to the wireless grid as long as you don't have bad thinking, as long as you don't do anything that we don't like, as long as we don't have to shut you off.

01:38:39.000 Well, there is a book about this, you know, right?

01:38:41.000 Yeah!

01:38:42.000 Well, it seems... 0.97

01:38:43.000 Have some Soma and chill the fuck out. 1.00

01:38:45.000 Bro, that book, when you've read it, Especially because I read it in high school, I think, which was already 1984. So it's like, oh, this is bullshit. 1.00

01:38:54.000 It's like Space 1999. Didn't really work out that way. 0.99

01:38:57.000 You know, there was a TV show about people living in space in 1999, because that's what they thought.

01:39:01.000 So in the 80s, when did Orwell write that book?

01:39:08.000 30?

01:39:09.000 No, because he was in a sanatorium.

01:39:12.000 No, he was dying of consumption TB at the time.

01:39:15.000 I think it was 46 it came out.

01:39:17.000 He wrote it while he was dying?

01:39:18.000 Yeah, he wrote it.

01:39:19.000 That's why it was kind of dark, man.

01:39:21.000 1949. Oh, 49. So he writes it right after the fascism of Nazi Germany and all that stuff.

01:39:27.000 And Stalin.

01:39:28.000 Yeah, and Stalin.

01:39:29.000 Yeah.

01:39:29.000 And so he writes this book, and it just seems ludicrous at the time, but now it's like a prophecy.

01:39:36.000 Yeah.

01:39:37.000 Especially the wrong think stuff.

01:39:39.000 Like, that is wild.

01:39:41.000 Yeah.

01:39:41.000 You know, just touching on the AI thing, what's interesting about AI is it's also obliterating middle class jobs.

01:39:49.000 Yes.

01:39:50.000 Middle class jobs. 0.88

01:39:50.000 Like graphic designer, pretty soon, that's going to be... 0.88

01:39:53.000 Not just middle class, but all the coders. 0.98

01:39:55.000 Yeah.

01:39:56.000 All the coders are going to be gone.

01:39:58.000 You're going to look at the law, accountancy.

01:40:01.000 Why are you going to employ an accountant?

01:40:03.000 Right.

01:40:03.000 When you've got an AI to do all your books.

01:40:05.000 Yeah.

01:40:05.000 You just feed it into the algorithm, it will sort it all through.

01:40:08.000 Boom! 0.99

01:40:08.000 My fear is that it's going to get to a point where why don't we use AI for government and have really objective government that doesn't have greed or lust or desire or the need for power, ego, or to be validated. 0.99

01:40:21.000 It doesn't need any of those things.

01:40:23.000 It doesn't ever tweet out, I hate Taylor Swift.

01:40:26.000 It just... 0.99

01:40:28.000 It just fucking runs everything with the objective is to make the world better. 0.97

01:40:34.000 And the objective is equal allocation of resources, particularly like natural resources that are really all of ours. 0.98

01:40:42.000 Why should we have these corporations that control all the oil when the oil's in the ground? 0.99

01:40:45.000 The ground belongs to the humans. 0.99

01:40:47.000 Why should anybody have an unbelievable amount of influence on everybody else just because they pull oil out of the ground?

01:40:54.000 That seems crazy.

01:40:55.000 Until it goes rogue and goes, you know what?

01:40:59.000 Humans do a lot of damage to the planet.

01:41:01.000 Yeah, that's the problem with being objective. 1.00

01:41:03.000 You guys got to get your shit together. 1.00

01:41:04.000 We're going to kill you all. 1.00

01:41:06.000 It'll have a meeting with us and say, hey... 1.00

01:41:08.000 We need to get the robbery, murder, rape rate down to zero.

01:41:13.000 Let's put all the men in prison! 1.00

01:41:15.000 If we don't, we're just going to kill everybody. 1.00

01:41:19.000 Oh, man. 0.99

01:41:20.000 You know, that's why you feel that...

01:41:26.000 I know people always hype up elections.

01:41:31.000 They always hype up elections.

01:41:32.000 Americans, you do show business in elections better than anyone.

01:41:35.000 I went to that Trump rally.

01:41:37.000 It's one of the greatest shows I've ever seen.

01:41:39.000 You must not have watched MSNBC because it's a Nazi rally.

01:41:43.000 They showed.

01:41:43.000 There were so many Israeli flags there, it was unbelievable.

01:41:46.000 Yeah, there was a lot of Israeli flags there.

01:41:48.000 Israeli flags, loads of Jews, loads of people recognized it.

01:41:50.000 Super hard to call it a Nazi flag with a lot of Israeli flags. 1.00

01:41:53.000 I mean, it's just so silly, this bullshit. 0.99

01:41:55.000 But that's what they're doing. 1.00

01:41:57.000 They're just trying to win.

01:41:58.000 They're trying to win. 0.99

01:41:59.000 But you can't, you can't, the words have fucking meaning, Joe. 0.99

01:42:03.000 They do, yeah. 0.98

01:42:03.000 They're supposed to. 0.98

01:42:04.000 And for a reason.

01:42:05.000 And that word, it's supposed to have a very specific meaning. 0.93

01:42:08.000 And it's like, it was a kind of a thing where, like, if someone said that about somebody, you'd go like, holy shit, I better really make sure this guy isn't that. 0.75

01:42:15.000 I better really make sure this isn't that. 0.99

01:42:17.000 Yeah, it used to be like, oh my god, that guy's a Nazi?

01:42:19.000 Like, you'd want to follow him, see where he's going to some secret meeting. 0.96

01:42:23.000 Like, oh my god, he's really a Nazi. 0.97

01:42:24.000 It's so irresponsible. 1.00

01:42:25.000 It really grinds my gears, that shit, man. 1.00

01:42:27.000 It's just, I know you want to win, but this isn't winning. 1.00

01:42:30.000 This is making the whole thing fucking worse. 0.79

01:42:32.000 Yeah, it's not good. 0.99

01:42:34.000 It's not good and it also is not good for them because all those mainstream media companies, all the MSNBCs of the world that are doing this kind of shit, you're gonna lose more and more credibility. 0.95

01:42:46.000 Like you're already hemorrhaging credibility.

01:42:48.000 This is the reason why the Washington Post, why Jeff Bezos had to make that Write that article.

01:42:52.000 So we need more representation of conservative voices.

01:42:56.000 We can't be just endorsing presidents because you all agree to one thing and you want to, like, educate the world.

01:43:03.000 We're not activists.

01:43:05.000 We're supposed to be journalists.

01:43:06.000 This is the reason why this business is hemorrhaging money and lost amazing amounts of credibility.

01:43:11.000 Like, stunning.

01:43:12.000 We've never seen a time where more people have lost faith in mainstream news.

01:43:17.000 But here's the thing.

01:43:18.000 And you talk about this.

01:43:19.000 It's one of the things you talk about, and you talk about it brilliantly.

01:43:22.000 Words have changed their meaning.

01:43:24.000 Words no longer mean what they used to.

01:43:26.000 I saw this post from Marc Maron, and it's like he was going for the world record about trying to mention the word fascist every other sentence.

01:43:34.000 And I'm going, and I'm sure, look, I'm sure Mark's a decent guy and whatever else, but I'm sure if you sat down with Mark and you'd go, Mark, explain to me what fascism is.

01:43:44.000 What do you mean by it?

01:43:45.000 It's virtue signaling.

01:43:46.000 It's signaling to the tribe.

01:43:48.000 It's what it is.

01:43:50.000 And it's also, there's a lot of jealousy.

01:43:52.000 Mark used to be at the top of the heap.

01:43:54.000 He used to have the number one podcast.

01:43:55.000 Now it's like it's not even the top 200. He was a great guy when he was number one.

01:43:59.000 It was a lot of fun. 0.98

01:44:00.000 He was apologizing to everybody for being a dick when he was younger. 0.99

01:44:03.000 Oh, man. 0.99

01:44:06.000 Nuance is very important.

01:44:07.000 It's very important with human beings. 0.99

01:44:09.000 And as soon as you conveniently categorize something as fascist and white supremacy, I think is another word he likes to use, you're being silly and you're ruining your own credibility. 0.96

01:44:20.000 You're going to get a bunch of people that agree with you. 0.98

01:44:21.000 Yeah, right on, man. 1.00

01:44:22.000 But they're silly, too. 0.99

01:44:24.000 We're just a bunch of human beings trying to coexist. 0.97

01:44:27.000 What we want out of this election is a greater country.

01:44:30.000 The country's supposed to be a team.

01:44:31.000 That's what it's supposed to be.

01:44:32.000 It's the most amazing thing, this idea that we're all in this together.

01:44:37.000 Collectively, we're a tribe of people. 1.00

01:44:39.000 But we, because of our fucking stupid instincts to be on teams, we've divided ourselves right down the middle, essentially. 0.99

01:44:47.000 I mean, depending on whose poll or what you want to read, it's kind of like pretty close down the middle. 1.00

01:44:54.000 And one side thinks the other side is the end of everything, and the other side thinks the same. 1.00

01:44:58.000 Yeah, it's it's so stupid It's so stupid and it's just we don't have much time human beings live a hundred if you're lucky I'm 57 some three-quarters of the way dead if I'm lucky if everything goes great Why spend any time on nonsense? 1.00

01:45:15.000 Why spend any time? 1.00

01:45:18.000 Just pledging allegiance to your tribe.

01:45:20.000 Why not just try to have a perspective that will enhance this situation and let people understand that we're really over our skis. 1.00

01:45:28.000 We're out of our fucking minds. 0.98

01:45:30.000 We're really like foaming at the mouth here. 0.99

01:45:33.000 There's important things, and the important thing is we've got to figure out a way that we don't have a nuclear war.

01:45:39.000 We've got to figure out a way to make it easier to make a living.

01:45:42.000 We've got to figure out a way to make it safer for people.

01:45:44.000 We have to figure out a way to secure the borders and make sure that we're not letting in terrorists. 0.99

01:45:48.000 We've got to figure out a way to not have terror cells activated because it's going to be convenient politically.

01:45:56.000 We've got to figure out a way to not have FBI agents inciting people to enter the Capitol building. 0.94

01:46:02.000 We've got to figure out a way to – there's a lot of shit we have to figure out collectively as a group. 0.97

01:46:06.000 And there's also the tragic element of it. 0.97

01:46:08.000 And people don't talk about this tragic element enough.

01:46:11.000 If you think about it, we live in an ever more atomized society.

01:46:14.000 We hang out less.

01:46:17.000 Our social groups are getting smaller and smaller.

01:46:20.000 That's just a fact of how society's going.

01:46:24.000 Think about the people who've lost friends.

01:46:28.000 Whose relationships broke up, marriages broke up over politics. 0.97

01:46:33.000 There's a guy right now in the UK waking up in a little flat somewhere and he's looking around and he went, oh fuck, I lost my marriage, I don't see my kids anymore because of Brexit. 0.99

01:46:46.000 It's crazy. 1.00

01:46:47.000 That's dumb. 1.00

01:46:48.000 It's not just Brexit. 1.00

01:46:49.000 It's over here.

01:46:50.000 It's like if you're married to a Trump supporter and you're a Harris supporter and you're fighting over the dinner table, that person's the enemy.

01:46:56.000 It happens to people all the time.

01:46:57.000 Or people get red-pilled, you know, and then they sort of like want to leave their ideological group and then the other person that you're with, maybe a business partner, maybe your lover, they hate you now.

01:47:11.000 Did you You're part of the enemy. 0.99

01:47:13.000 And a bunch of people that don't give a fuck about you. 0.99

01:47:16.000 They don't care about you. 0.99

01:47:17.000 And you've pledged allegiance to people that don't even know your name.

01:47:21.000 They don't know a thing about you.

01:47:23.000 And they're lying on TV every night.

01:47:25.000 And you're still all in for them.

01:47:27.000 You're making homemade signs.

01:47:29.000 Running out the door and holding...

01:47:34.000 Why are you putting signs up on your lawn?

01:47:36.000 But righteousness is such a drug, man. 1.00

01:47:38.000 Like when we were standing in that line in New York, there was a guy that walked past and he was like, enjoy your fucking Nazi rally to like a family with young kids. 1.00

01:47:45.000 You're not a good guy. 1.00

01:47:47.000 You're not a good guy when you're doing that.

01:47:49.000 I don't care what your politics is.

01:47:50.000 You're not a good guy.

01:47:51.000 No.

01:47:52.000 You feel good when you're shouting, but you're not behaving in the right way. 0.97

01:47:56.000 But it just gives cunts the ability to scream at people because they think they're right. 0.95

01:48:01.000 Especially if you've already labeled those people Nazis. 0.99

01:48:04.000 Enjoy your Nazi rally. 0.96

01:48:06.000 You could yell whatever you want at Nazis.

01:48:08.000 That was the whole thing back in the day.

01:48:09.000 Remember punch a Nazi? 0.55

01:48:11.000 But who gets to determine who the Nazis are? 0.99

01:48:14.000 If you're in World War II, yeah, you have to punch a Nazi. 0.79

01:48:19.000 But if you're in Brooklyn, I bet that guy's not really a Nazi. 0.84

01:48:22.000 He might just have a tie on.

01:48:24.000 Or listen to this podcast.

01:48:26.000 Yeah, he might be listening to this podcast. 0.75

01:48:30.000 He might get punched on the subway.

01:48:32.000 But you know what?

01:48:33.000 I would love Kamala Harris to come on this podcast. 0.96

01:48:35.000 That's the podcast I want to see the most in this election.

01:48:38.000 I would too.

01:48:39.000 But I just feel like very strongly that if it's going to be done, it has to be done like a regular podcast because that's the only way it works.

01:48:46.000 The only way it works is just sit down and talk with somebody.

01:48:49.000 You can't go to some ballroom and some hotel where they control everything and they have cameras ready and they want to edit stuff out.

01:48:55.000 It's like...

01:48:56.000 That's just too weird.

01:48:57.000 It's not the same thing.

01:48:59.000 Go to see Colbert.

01:49:01.000 You're on his set.

01:49:02.000 You don't ask him to make a set at the White House.

01:49:06.000 You're doing it where he does it.

01:49:07.000 Totally.

01:49:08.000 Yeah.

01:49:09.000 But that is why I'm still...

01:49:10.000 We've had a depressing conversation.

01:49:11.000 I'm still excited because that thing you're talking about, Jeff Bezos, that's the market working.

01:49:17.000 Your ratings are tanking.

01:49:18.000 No one trusts you. 1.00

01:49:19.000 No one buys your fucking newspaper. 1.00

01:49:21.000 Okay. 1.00

01:49:21.000 Well, who's doing shit right? 1.00

01:49:23.000 Let's have a look around. 0.97

01:49:23.000 Who's successful? 0.97

01:49:24.000 Oh, it's this.

01:49:26.000 Okay.

01:49:26.000 Maybe we need to do that thing you were talking about, Gore Vidal-Buckley.

01:49:30.000 Maybe we need to actually have a conversation.

01:49:32.000 Maybe we need to have...

01:49:33.000 I'd love for you to have Trump and Harris in here.

01:49:37.000 That'd be interesting.

01:49:38.000 Well, that's what I said to him.

01:49:39.000 I said, what really should be the two of you sit down and have a conversation for as long as it takes.

01:49:44.000 Just no moderator, no one there.

01:49:47.000 Not even a moderator?

01:49:48.000 Not you?

01:49:49.000 I don't think I need to be in the way.

01:49:50.000 It would be hilarious.

01:49:54.000 How long would it take?

01:49:56.000 How are you going to fix the economy?

01:49:58.000 How are you going to fix the economy?

01:49:59.000 Like, I want to do this.

01:50:00.000 That was my idea.

01:50:03.000 No time limit.

01:50:04.000 No time limit.

01:50:05.000 Like the UFC back in the day, right?

01:50:06.000 Yeah, I mean that would be how you'd really, like when you see two people on a panel and they're talking about things and one person really knows what they're talking about like Bill Maher or whatever.

01:50:16.000 When that happens, it's always fascinating to watch someone like way out of their league and they get exposed.

01:50:22.000 But that same person could be doing a softball interview and they look like a wizard.

01:50:27.000 They look like a genius.

01:50:29.000 Because they already have their predetermined answers to questions that have already been presented to them.

01:50:34.000 So they prepare.

01:50:35.000 And that's essentially what you've been getting a lot with Kamala Harris.

01:50:38.000 You've been getting a lot of this prepared stuff.

01:50:40.000 You know, well, I was born in a middle class family.

01:50:43.000 And she has this thing that she's going to say and, you know.

01:50:47.000 Yeah, it's, you know what to me is, I would love to see this, but broaden it out in society.

01:50:54.000 To me, the most interesting conversations are when you talk with people who disagree with you, who see the world in a different way.

01:51:01.000 Yes.

01:51:01.000 Because that does two things.

01:51:03.000 Not only do you learn something, but number two, you find out some of the things you think are bullshit. 0.99

01:51:08.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:51:09.000 And they're wrong.

01:51:10.000 And then they go, hang on.

01:51:11.000 Actually, that ain't true.

01:51:12.000 Look at this.

01:51:13.000 Look at this.

01:51:13.000 And you're like, oh, wow.

01:51:15.000 Actually, you know what?

01:51:16.000 You're right.

01:51:16.000 So it makes your ideas stronger and you become a more fully rounded human being.

01:51:21.000 But that requires good faith.

01:51:23.000 Yes.

01:51:23.000 That requires good faith.

01:51:24.000 Those conversations don't happen if both of the people are playing to an audience.

01:51:29.000 People have a really hard time with good faith.

01:51:31.000 Because the problem with good faith is you also have to admit you lost.

01:51:34.000 Yes.

01:51:35.000 And people get so attached to an idea. 0.99

01:51:38.000 They say an idea, and once they said it, that's a part of their fucking DNA, and they will argue for that. 0.97

01:51:43.000 They don't want to be wrong. 0.99

01:51:45.000 They don't want to be wrong.

01:51:46.000 Even smart people.

01:51:47.000 Especially smart people.

01:51:49.000 I had an argument with a friend of mine once about divorce and that women get more in divorce. 0.69

01:51:55.000 We were talking about how the divorce system is kind of fucked because lawyers prey upon it in order to jack up their rates, and then they turn the couple against each other. 0.90

01:52:06.000 They're like, wait, well, he said this. 1.00

01:52:07.000 Put that motherfucker. 1.00

01:52:09.000 And then next thing you know, I want more. 1.00

01:52:10.000 And then really what's happening is the lawyer's jacking up his rates.

01:52:13.000 He's dragging things out.

01:52:15.000 And then I know guys that have been devastated by divorces.

01:52:18.000 And his argument was like, yeah, but isn't it fair that the woman gets all the money? 0.99

01:52:22.000 Because women only make 75 cents a dollar for what men make. 1.00

01:52:26.000 I go, do you know that's not true?

01:52:28.000 Do you understand what that is?

01:52:29.000 And he didn't want to believe it.

01:52:30.000 He was like, no, that's not what it is.

01:52:31.000 I go, they have different jobs.

01:52:33.000 And they work different hours.

01:52:35.000 That's where the 75 cents comes from.

01:52:36.000 It's not like a guy and a woman work together at the same job. 0.99

01:52:40.000 They both do the same job and the guy makes a dollar and she makes 75 cents. 0.90

01:52:43.000 That's not how it works. 0.99

01:52:44.000 He was like, no fucking way. 0.99

01:52:46.000 I goes, yeah. 0.99

01:52:46.000 And then we looked it up. 0.99

01:52:47.000 He's like, whoa. 0.99

01:52:50.000 Because in his mind, it was always the labor market is unfair because women are getting fucked over because men take advantage of them the way we're talking about them taking advantage of illegal immigrants and making them work for less. 0.98

01:53:04.000 No, if you were working in a corporation, a woman does just as good a job as a man, and yet she's willing to work for 75 cents, you'd have only women working for you. 1.00

01:53:11.000 They just want to make money. 1.00

01:53:12.000 They don't give a fuck about all that DEI shit. 1.00

01:53:16.000 That's just how they can make more money. 0.99

01:53:17.000 What do I have to do to get a part of this?

01:53:19.000 What do I have to do to get grants?

01:53:20.000 What do I have to do to get...

01:53:21.000 Do I get more loans?

01:53:24.000 Like, what do I have to do? 0.99

01:53:25.000 Like, that's all that shit is. 0.99

01:53:26.000 Yeah, and it's, again, the problem is, is it makes everything so divisive. 0.99

01:53:31.000 Yep.

01:53:32.000 Because, look, the vast majority of people The vast majority only care about fairness.

01:53:38.000 They want it to be fair, or as fair as possible.

01:53:41.000 And when something is so egregious and so unfair, that's where anger takes hold, that's where resentment takes hold, and that's when people get nasty.

01:53:49.000 Because they feel that they've been cheated, and in some cases they have, and they go, you know what, I'm not going to take part in your game, your game's rigged. 1.00

01:53:57.000 So you know what, fuck you, fuck your game, and this is what I'm gonna do. 0.99

01:54:00.000 And once that happens, you don't have conversations, you don't have good faith, and you don't have any type of solution to the problem. 1.00

01:54:08.000 Yeah, and the thing that's gonna help that is psychedelics. 1.00

01:54:13.000 Take it off the schedule one, you fucking dumbasses. 1.00

01:54:17.000 Bunch of people that have never experienced it. 0.99

01:54:21.000 There's a lot of hope in the future, and I think one of the big hopes is that these kind of conversations that we have are popular, where that wasn't even a thing 20 years ago.

01:54:31.000 It was impossible to get.

01:54:32.000 If you were having a conversation about issues, it would be on television, and it would be approved experts.

01:54:39.000 It'd be someone who's an expert from a university or someone who's an expert from a corporation, and they would be talking to you about things, or someone from the government.

01:54:47.000 They had full control of the narrative.

01:54:50.000 They don't have that anymore.

01:54:51.000 No.

01:54:52.000 That's what's weird.

01:54:52.000 And we have it for a small amount of time before AI takes over.

01:54:57.000 There's like this brief window where people have access to like real discussions and then AI is going to take over.

01:55:05.000 Well, this is happening though.

01:55:06.000 Like in the UK, the Conservative Party is having an election now.

01:55:09.000 Like whoever wins that, we'll have them on our show and have a conversation and find out, you know, what they're all about.

01:55:15.000 And by the time of the next election here and in the UK... I think this is going to be the primary vehicle if you want to get your message out there, this kind of conversation.

01:55:22.000 Well, I think they're probably all going to do their own, too, which would behoove them.

01:55:27.000 Let's say someone like Rand Paul. 0.53

01:55:30.000 If Rand Paul decided to make a podcast, I bet that would be pretty fucking popular, real popular. 0.66

01:55:35.000 Look what happened to Tucker Carlson after he left Fox News. 0.71

01:55:39.000 They fired him from Fox News because they didn't like what he was talking about.

01:55:43.000 I don't know what the whole story was.

01:55:45.000 I've heard a bunch of different versions of it, but the bottom line is he became way bigger.

01:55:50.000 If you thought he was a problem when you had him under control, when he was working for a corporation, now he can talk about whatever he wants. 1.00

01:55:57.000 He's got some guy on who said he sucked Obama's dick. 1.00

01:56:05.000 This is fucking nuts. 1.00

01:56:07.000 I was like, what are you doing? 1.00

01:56:08.000 Like, this is crazy. 0.99

01:56:10.000 But that's the kind of shit you can do if you don't have any sort of guardrails. 0.99

01:56:14.000 You don't have any executives. 0.99

01:56:16.000 You don't have any producers.

01:56:17.000 But the thing that gives me hope, Joe, is most people, they're not going to want that.

01:56:23.000 Most people, what they're going to want...

01:56:25.000 But hold up. 1.00

01:56:26.000 Obama sucking the guy's dick? 1.00

01:56:28.000 That guy sucking Obama's dick, a lot of people are going to want that one. 1.00

01:56:31.000 Everybody likes dick sucking. 1.00

01:56:34.000 I mean, that is true. 1.00

01:56:36.000 It is.

01:56:37.000 It is.

01:56:38.000 But I think when people are craving a middle ground, people crave that.

01:56:46.000 People desire that.

01:56:47.000 One of the reasons that the BBC is in free fall at the moment and they're hemorrhaging viewers and listeners and all the rest of it is because people think that they're biased and they have every right to.

01:56:58.000 But when people talk about the demise of the BBC, most people, they're not happy about it.

01:57:04.000 They're sad because they know that it was a valuable place where people from left and right came together to debate ideas, to share ideas, and people would listen and make up their own minds.

01:57:16.000 People still crave that, Joe, and that's what gives me hope, is that that's what people want.

01:57:21.000 You're going to get people who want to listen to, you know, I was in a gangbang with Obama or whatever it was.

01:57:26.000 People are going to...

01:57:28.000 People are going to clip that now and whatever, but you know, that's a fringe.

01:57:34.000 But the average person is curious and they just want to hear a center ground.

01:57:41.000 And they want a source that's interesting and reliable, and that's what the BBC used to be.

01:57:45.000 You know, the BBC, they put on that Attenborough documentary where we went to the Congo.

01:57:51.000 The first time they ever saw chimpanzees eat monkeys.

01:57:53.000 Remember that?

01:57:54.000 That's Attenborough.

01:57:55.000 That's BBC. The BBC had one of the best documentaries on the Congo I've ever seen in my life.

01:58:01.000 It's incredible.

01:58:02.000 I used to have it on VHS. It's a multi-part documentary on the Congo.

01:58:07.000 They used to do incredible stuff.

01:58:09.000 But in America, to a lesser extent, that was Vice News.

01:58:12.000 Like, Vice News used to be incredible.

01:58:15.000 Vice News used to do all this really interesting stuff, and I had Shane Smith on from Vice News, who started it, used to be the head of it, and then he walked away from it, and it completely fell apart.

01:58:24.000 Went woke, went broke.

01:58:25.000 Because he left?

01:58:26.000 No.

01:58:27.000 Well, he left, and then it wasn't just that he left.

01:58:30.000 It was also like, who were the people that were coming in, right?

01:58:33.000 There are these young, woke kids that are coming in from universities, and all of a sudden, they had this idea of what they should be doing in journalism. 0.98

01:58:40.000 And it's journalism slash activism, and it just became bullshit. 0.96

01:58:45.000 And nobody paid attention to it anymore, and it lost all its money. 0.99

01:58:48.000 Well, that's why I always say, like, people love to shit on the mainstream media, as I do to some extent. 0.97

01:58:52.000 But my view is, we need a mainstream media, just not this one. 0.97

01:58:57.000 Well, I think the way to do it is the way it's probably going to be independent mainstream media.

01:59:04.000 And when it stops being independent, people will give up on it and go to a real independent one.

01:59:09.000 And unfortunately, there'll probably be fake independent ones that are like state-sponsored that are trying to make it look like they're real.

01:59:15.000 You're going to get a bunch of CIA plants and a bunch of different intelligence agencies that infiltrate podcasts.

01:59:21.000 You're going to have that kind of stuff. 0.91

01:59:22.000 But that's just like, you know, that's like the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping case when you have 12 different FBI informants and two people that don't know what the fuck is going on. 0.54

01:59:34.000 These are the people that are coordinating the kidnapping. 0.98

01:59:36.000 It's mostly the FBI informants, which is just nuts.

01:59:39.000 Things get infiltrated.

01:59:41.000 But it's got to suck to be that vice guy because you build this thing and it's working and it's great.

01:59:46.000 Not just that, he went broke.

01:59:47.000 Wow.

01:59:48.000 I mean, not broke broke, but I think he lost a billion dollars.

01:59:52.000 Wow.

01:59:54.000 Maybe more.

01:59:55.000 Wow.

01:59:55.000 Yeah, nuts.

01:59:57.000 But again, I come back to it, which is...

02:00:02.000 There is so much potential now.

02:00:04.000 There is so much space.

02:00:06.000 And if you are one of those journalists...

02:00:08.000 And look, let's be honest as well.

02:00:10.000 We've all got our biases.

02:00:11.000 Everyone here has got a bias.

02:00:12.000 Not me, mate.

02:00:13.000 I'm perfectly neutral.

02:00:15.000 But everyone's got what they think.

02:00:17.000 But if you do and you're open about it, people accept that.

02:00:21.000 People go, you know, okay, you know, Joe's, you know, whatever Joe is, I'm whatever you, Constantine is whatever he is.

02:00:28.000 But...

02:00:29.000 They will be far more accepting of that because you are honest, you're authentic.

02:00:34.000 It's like David Mamet said, words that come from the heart go to the heart.

02:00:37.000 And if you are prepared to have that honest conversation whilst admitting that this is what you think and this is what you believe, that is a far richer, more fulfilling experience for the viewer or the listener than someone just giving out talking points and saying, I agree, because that rapidly gets very boring.

02:00:54.000 There's an audience for it, but, you know, back and forth and the cut and thrust and hang on, you said this, but I love watching that.

02:01:02.000 I love listening to that.

02:01:03.000 Yeah.

02:01:04.000 Well, real honest discourse is fascinating, especially by two intelligent people that have different perspectives.

02:01:10.000 It's fascinating, because you say, this guy's obviously very smart, and this person's obviously very smart, and they're talking, and you get a chance to see, like, how do you come to your conclusions?

02:01:19.000 Are you willing to admit that other people have points?

02:01:23.000 Or are you just steamrolling them when they question you about something that's contradictory about the way you think?

02:01:29.000 Like, how are you thinking?

02:01:30.000 And I think we all learn by watching other people think and discuss things.

02:01:34.000 Absolutely.

02:01:35.000 But the difference is, this is where the medium is, the message point really applies, is that takes a lot of time.

02:01:41.000 Take any issue that's in any way controversial.

02:01:44.000 The reason issues are controversial is that people don't agree.

02:01:49.000 That's what controversial means, right?

02:01:51.000 People don't agree.

02:01:52.000 People have different perspectives.

02:01:53.000 The reason they have different perspectives is that that is an issue which is difficult to have consensus on.

02:02:00.000 Right.

02:02:01.000 That means that issue is so complicated you cannot discuss it in five minutes.

02:02:05.000 It's going to take hours and something really it's going to take you know sometimes it's going to take years of research to come to a conclusion about certain things.

02:02:13.000 The idea that you can adjudicate that through the medium of two people having a bust up on a show where they're just it's optimized for anger and outrage. 0.96

02:02:22.000 That's ridiculous. 0.91

02:02:23.000 That's not how you get to the truth. 0.94

02:02:25.000 The way you get to the truth is you take your time and you have a conversation.

02:02:29.000 Yeah.

02:02:29.000 And that's why I think we keep using that word hope, but that's why I do have hope, as you say, before AI takes over.

02:02:35.000 That format allows...

02:02:37.000 I'm not saying that's the only way these conversations go. 1.00

02:02:40.000 There are a lot of dumb shit. 1.00

02:02:42.000 There's a lot of dumb shit being said on podcasts all the time as well. 1.00

02:02:45.000 But there is the space for that kind of conversation as well. 0.99

02:02:48.000 And that is good.

02:02:50.000 Yeah, podcasts are a lot like Twitter conversations. 1.00

02:02:53.000 It's a lot of dumb shit, but a lot of good shit, too. 0.99

02:02:56.000 And that's very similar in that they're both kind of unregulated. 1.00

02:03:00.000 Yeah, but it's important that you hear dumb shit. 1.00

02:03:04.000 It's important. 1.00

02:03:04.000 It's really important that you hear it. 1.00

02:03:07.000 And also, it's why I believe, you know, I hate political correctness because it stops conversations from happening.

02:03:14.000 Or what it does is it means, like, take immigration.

02:03:18.000 If, like, you say, or if you say this point of view, that's racist, you're only going to talk about 70% of the problem.

02:03:25.000 You're not going to talk about this 30% here.

02:03:27.000 If you don't talk about this 30% here because it's politically incorrect, you are never going to solve the problem because the only way to solve the problem is to talk about every facet of the problem.

02:03:37.000 And if you're not going to approach that 30%, we ain't ever going to come to a solution.

02:03:42.000 And that's when you get riots like we had in the UK. That's how that happens.

02:03:46.000 When you try and suppress the discussion, that's what happens.

02:03:49.000 And you guys don't have guns.

02:03:50.000 And we don't. 0.99

02:03:51.000 Thank the fuck we don't have guns because it's getting pretty heated, man. 0.99

02:03:53.000 Yeah, I've seen some stuff. 0.99

02:03:55.000 Seems wild over there, man.

02:03:57.000 It is.

02:03:58.000 You know, the real fear if Trump wins is civil discourse or civil unrest, rather, in this country.

02:04:06.000 A lot of people are scared of that because they remember what happened when he won in 2016. You know, and there was some of it that was real peaceful, like the Women's March.

02:04:14.000 There was no violence at the Women's March to speak of.

02:04:17.000 I'm sure there was some, but it wasn't like the BLM marches.

02:04:21.000 The BLM marches were crazy. 0.55

02:04:22.000 Right.

02:04:23.000 Do you think that's going to happen if he wins?

02:04:26.000 I think there's a certain amount of that that's coordinated, and I think there's a certain amount of that that they do to initiate civil unrest to further their political goals.

02:04:39.000 I think there's a certain amount of that that's real.

02:04:42.000 I think that's always been the case.

02:04:43.000 There's always been agent provocateurs that go into peaceful protests and start smashing things so the cops can come in and shut everything down.

02:04:54.000 And then there was during the BLM, I'm sure you saw during some of the protests and riots that there was these bricks that were just left everywhere.

02:05:03.000 Did you see that?

02:05:05.000 Yeah, there was at some places there was pallets of bricks that were just left in the middle of the course of where these protests would be.

02:05:12.000 Didn't make any sense.

02:05:14.000 Like, why is this there?

02:05:14.000 And there was all these conspiracy theories and there's all these people that are absolutely dismissing the conspiracy theories.

02:05:20.000 I'm like, why would you dismiss it?

02:05:22.000 Do you think that some people benefit from civil unrest?

02:05:25.000 They certainly do.

02:05:26.000 If you wanted to get the public riled up, you just start smashing things and lighting them on fire and give people this feeling that they can do that.

02:05:36.000 That was a wild time, man.

02:05:37.000 Crazy time.

02:05:38.000 That was a while and and a lot of the people who were right at the front of that cheerleading it on from the sidelines It's like what they did with Joe Biden like Yesterday he was the leader of the free world this perfect guy.

02:05:49.000 He's got no cognitive issues and then tomorrow bam He's done well the defund the police stuff You know that was all that was all about defunding the police. 1.00

02:05:57.000 Are you out of your fucking mind? 1.00

02:05:59.000 Do you you don't know jack shit about police work? 1.00

02:06:02.000 And you're saying defund the police but even some people that knew about it were using it as a political tool and Kamala Harris was saying defund the police. 0.99

02:06:09.000 Totally.

02:06:10.000 Would you ask her about that if she comes on?

02:06:11.000 Sure, sure.

02:06:13.000 Yeah, I'd ask her about changing perspectives.

02:06:14.000 I think it's important that people change perspectives.

02:06:16.000 Like, people say, oh, they flip-flopped.

02:06:18.000 Well, that's probably good.

02:06:19.000 That means maybe they were faced with better evidence and they realized they were incorrect. 0.99

02:06:24.000 I would rather have that when someone, like, sticks to some stupid erroneous idea forever. 0.99

02:06:28.000 The real question is, did they actually change their mind? 0.99

02:06:31.000 Right.

02:06:32.000 That's the question.

02:06:33.000 Or are they just a politician?

02:06:34.000 Like some people are car salesmen.

02:06:36.000 Some people tell you you need the undercarriage protection.

02:06:38.000 You need that undercarriage protection.

02:06:42.000 It's very important.

02:06:44.000 They'll sell it.

02:06:45.000 And it's also the way they marketed that.

02:06:47.000 They were like, this is a left-wing idea.

02:06:50.000 I'm telling you right now, people who are poor want police. 0.97

02:06:55.000 Yeah.

02:06:55.000 If you live in a poor deprived area with high rates of crime, you want police.

02:07:01.000 Yeah.

02:07:01.000 You don't want a drug dealer on your selling crack.

02:07:05.000 You don't want armed gangs roaming around.

02:07:07.000 You want them to come and protect your family.

02:07:10.000 So the idea that we're going to get rid of police and all of a sudden all the rapists are going to go, you know what, mate?

02:07:15.000 Decide not for me.

02:07:16.000 Well, there was also so many weird ways to handle the riots.

02:07:20.000 Like one of the things they did in New York City is just let people do whatever they wanted to do and let it burn out.

02:07:26.000 Which is...

02:07:27.000 apparently that was a way that people theorized it was the best way to deal with civil unrest way back into the 60s.

02:07:36.000 But it was proven to not be correct. 0.99

02:07:38.000 It's not a good idea because it encourages people to do more shit. 0.99

02:07:41.000 You've got kids, Joe. 1.00

02:07:42.000 Yes.

02:07:42.000 If your kids are running riot...

02:07:45.000 Do you let it just burn out?

02:07:47.000 No. 1.00

02:07:47.000 Fuck no. 1.00

02:07:48.000 No. 1.00

02:07:48.000 Well, especially when people... 1.00

02:07:50.000 If you're in New York, I'm sure you saw Saks Fifth Avenue, all these different stores that got their windows smashed and people just... 1.00

02:07:59.000 Stole millions of dollars worth of shit. 0.99

02:08:01.000 Smashed, destroyed, lit things on fire. 1.00

02:08:04.000 Why would you ever want to come back to that city?

02:08:06.000 Why would you ever want to have a business there?

02:08:08.000 You're going to kill the businesses that keep people coming to the city and help the economy?

02:08:13.000 That's insanity.

02:08:15.000 It's dispiriting.

02:08:16.000 It's actually dispiriting because when you saw those events happening, you just felt like...

02:08:22.000 I was watching it going, what is happening?

02:08:24.000 What is happening to society?

02:08:26.000 Because every time someone commits a crime and they get away with it and you see it, it has a demoralizing effect on you because you think, hang on a minute, I work hard.

02:08:36.000 I pay tax.

02:08:36.000 I do all of this, and you're allowed to just go around, roam scot-free, nick all the stuff, and then there's no repercussions for it.

02:08:45.000 So why am I taking part in a system which is effectively punishing me?

02:08:50.000 Yeah, it's disheartening.

02:08:51.000 That's the best way to put it.

02:08:52.000 I've got to pee real quick.

02:08:53.000 We'll do that and we'll come back.

02:08:54.000 I'll do that too.

02:08:54.000 All right, cool.

02:08:56.000 Much better.

02:08:57.000 Can't concentrate when I have to pee.

02:08:59.000 It's impossible.

02:09:01.000 Yeah.

02:09:03.000 That is so true.

02:09:04.000 The moment you meet...

02:09:05.000 I remember doing a gig at the Edinburgh Festival and the crowd were just awful.

02:09:10.000 They just weren't going for anything.

02:09:11.000 And I was like, why is this?

02:09:13.000 And one of the comedians turned around to me.

02:09:15.000 It was raining outside.

02:09:17.000 I'm like, so?

02:09:17.000 He went, they've all got wet socks.

02:09:20.000 You can't be happy when you've got wet socks on.

02:09:24.000 Maybe you should have tried some hate speech.

02:09:29.000 Didn't the guy get arrested in Ireland because he refused to call a boy or a girl in class?

02:09:36.000 Yeah, the teacher.

02:09:38.000 They literally put him in jail, right?

02:09:40.000 Yeah.

02:09:41.000 How long is he in jail for?

02:09:43.000 It's been a while.

02:09:44.000 It's been a while.

02:09:46.000 That's dystopian.

02:09:48.000 That's really crazy. 1.00

02:09:49.000 But it's a logical conclusion of this hate speech bullshit, right? 1.00

02:09:53.000 Jail. 1.00

02:09:53.000 If it's hate speech, then you have to prosecute it. 1.00

02:09:55.000 If you prosecute it, you have to punish people.

02:09:57.000 If you punish people, how do you punish people? 1.00

02:09:59.000 You put them in a fucking cage. 1.00

02:10:00.000 Fucking crazy. 1.00

02:10:01.000 And it's also, as well, it's that whole safetyism issue, which is we need to keep people safe. 0.99

02:10:06.000 Yeah.

02:10:07.000 And words are violence.

02:10:09.000 That's another one.

02:10:09.000 Yeah.

02:10:10.000 And if somebody is going around spreading hate speech, he's making people unsafe.

02:10:14.000 Even if they just feel unsafe.

02:10:16.000 Yeah.

02:10:16.000 Francis, they feel unsafe.

02:10:17.000 They feel unsafe.

02:10:18.000 Yeah.

02:10:20.000 And that's what it's all about.

02:10:21.000 You've made me feel unsafe.

02:10:22.000 Therefore, I am unsafe.

02:10:24.000 And what do we need to do about that?

02:10:26.000 You need to be got rid of.

02:10:28.000 You can't have it here.

02:10:29.000 Not just that, but you set a massive example to anybody else.

02:10:31.000 You step out of line, we're going to put you in a cage.

02:10:33.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:10:34.000 So it's time to start calling boys girls or girls boys or whatever the fuck we tell you to. 0.99

02:10:39.000 It's just completely illogical. 0.99

02:10:40.000 It says he was jailed because he broke like a trespassing order kind of for going back there when they told him not to.

02:10:47.000 That would be the third time though, right?

02:10:48.000 Yeah, so tell him to go back to the school?

02:10:50.000 Yeah, he went back to the school to talk to people or something and that's what he got arrested for.

02:10:54.000 So he got fired.

02:10:56.000 Why?

02:10:58.000 He was not arrested for his position on transgender pronouns, as claimed in misleading social media posts.

02:11:04.000 Social media users shared a video, Burke's arrest outside the school September 2nd, where he's heard saying, I have a right to work here, I have a right to be here, not to tell students that they need to take puberty blockers.

02:11:14.000 Oh, wow.

02:11:14.000 But, Jamie, this is the third time, though.

02:11:15.000 What was he arrested for initially?

02:11:17.000 Because that's really kind of what we're talking about, right?

02:11:20.000 Scroll down at the bottom, though.

02:11:20.000 Let me hear what it says more.

02:11:22.000 It says there, um, other people off camera also say you're arresting him because he won't endorse gender, transgender ideology.

02:11:29.000 And Enoch Burke, teacher, being arrested for not accepting transgenderism.

02:11:33.000 People circulating the clip online suggest Burke was arrested for his views with some writing, breaking Irish police arrest teacher Enoch Burke for not endorsing trans ideology.

02:11:43.000 So was he fired for not that?

02:11:45.000 Terms of injunction that instructs him to stay away from the school.

02:11:49.000 So he must have been fired for that.

02:11:51.000 And then he refused to just leave.

02:11:53.000 And so he kept coming back and then they arrested him.

02:11:56.000 I mean, you know...

02:11:57.000 No, but that said he was arrested for a third time.

02:11:59.000 Yeah.

02:11:59.000 So I'm guessing the previous two arrests might not have been for trespassing.

02:12:03.000 They might have been for things that he'd said.

02:12:05.000 Well, let's find that out.

02:12:06.000 That'd be worth checking out.

02:12:08.000 You know, this is the thing that I find the most egregious is when you get kids involved.

02:12:16.000 Because the thing is with kids...

02:12:18.000 Kids don't know. 0.83

02:12:20.000 They don't understand the concept, a lot of them, especially at a young age, of gender.

02:12:25.000 And they're very impressionable of children.

02:12:28.000 Of course they are.

02:12:29.000 So you can pump them full of this stuff, and eventually they can believe it.

02:12:33.000 They're not like adults who go, hang on a minute, mate.

02:12:36.000 The odd kid is, but the majority of them are highly suggestible.

02:12:40.000 That's why children have parents, because they're not capable of making their own choices.

02:12:45.000 It really is that simple.

02:12:47.000 That's why there's teachers.

02:12:48.000 That's why there's adult leaders.

02:12:51.000 So they go to them.

02:12:52.000 You are not capable of making this decision because your brain is not mature enough.

02:12:57.000 It is not developed enough.

02:12:58.000 I am an adult.

02:12:59.000 I will be the one making your choices.

02:13:01.000 And then when you get to whatever age, age 18, 21, depending on the thing, then you can go off and you can live your life and you can do whatever you want.

02:13:10.000 Until then...

02:13:11.000 I am the one in charge.

02:13:13.000 And to this idea that then you then let something as huge as this, where there's going to be medical intervention and surgeries, I'm going to call it what it is, Joe.

02:13:22.000 That's child abuse. 1.00

02:13:24.000 It showed abuse.

02:13:25.000 At least they've stopped it in the UK in terms of the surgeries and puberty blockers.

02:13:31.000 Sort of describing more, but it's still like he said he didn't want to call the student they, so they told him administrative leave and he kept coming back to the school.

02:13:41.000 So that's what it is.

02:13:44.000 Um, instructed staff that a pupil who was transitioning to another gender wished to be referred to by a new name and the pronouns they, a change supported by the pupil's parents.

02:13:54.000 Burke from Castle Bar, County Mayo, who teaches history, refused, citing his religious beliefs.

02:14:00.000 The school put Burke on paid administrative leave after he allegedly confronted the principal at a public event and questioned her in a heated manner, a claim Burke denies.

02:14:08.000 After Burke continued to attend the school, It obtained a court order barring him from the campus.

02:14:13.000 He continued to show up, prompting his jailing for contempt of court.

02:14:17.000 Right.

02:14:17.000 So it sounds like a guy making a stand, basically.

02:14:19.000 Yeah.

02:14:21.000 And you know what's even more nuts about this?

02:14:25.000 Ireland's a Catholic country.

02:14:27.000 Yeah.

02:14:27.000 Ireland is a country that...

02:14:29.000 With Mohammed being the number one name for young boys.

02:14:32.000 In Ireland?

02:14:33.000 Yeah.

02:14:34.000 Really?

02:14:34.000 Yeah.

02:14:36.000 That's the number one name for boys.

02:14:38.000 I mean, the Catholic faith has changed a lot since I've done it.

02:14:44.000 Well, a lot of people moved there.

02:14:46.000 Yeah.

02:14:47.000 Yeah.

02:14:48.000 But you know what, as well, it's...

02:14:50.000 Find that statistic, because that statistic's crazy.

02:14:53.000 Yeah.

02:14:53.000 It's just like...

02:14:54.000 I typed it in and it didn't pop up right away, so I don't know.

02:14:56.000 There might be a way in which it is.

02:14:59.000 Maybe it's number two.

02:15:00.000 Maybe it's number two.

02:15:00.000 I think it was number one for young boys in one of the most recent years.

02:15:05.000 I hope they're not calling the girls that.

02:15:07.000 That would be so cruel.

02:15:09.000 You can't even draw her.

02:15:11.000 Maybe in one city it says in Ireland.

02:15:14.000 In Galloway City.

02:15:16.000 Is it Galloway?

02:15:17.000 Galway.

02:15:18.000 Galway, yeah.

02:15:19.000 That's what pops up when I typed in Muhammad on top of it.

02:15:21.000 It said Ryan's the number one name in Ireland.

02:15:23.000 Brian?

02:15:23.000 Ryan, alright.

02:15:26.000 But, you know, this again is what gives me hope, Joe, is that, especially in the UK, we have fought really long and hard against this stuff.

02:15:35.000 There was a report done by one of the...

02:15:39.000 One of the most important pediatricians called Dr. Cass and the Cass Report. 0.99

02:15:44.000 And it basically took a bulldozer to all of this crap. 0.98

02:15:48.000 To all of it. 0.96

02:15:49.000 And you go, this is what we can do if...

02:15:54.000 We just start challenging and we go, no, boys cannot become girls. 0.84

02:15:59.000 Girls cannot become boys. 1.00

02:16:01.000 That doesn't mean that if somebody is having gender dysphoria, they have therapy.

02:16:07.000 Talk to them.

02:16:08.000 Help them.

02:16:08.000 Of course, all of this thing.

02:16:10.000 We need to look at the reasons why girls are wanting to transition in their droves. 1.00

02:16:14.000 Why is this?

02:16:15.000 Particularly 40% of girls who are Wanting to transition, they've got autism.

02:16:20.000 We need to talk about this, we need to investigate it, and we need to help these kids.

02:16:25.000 But just giving puberty blockers and sending them on this stream to essentially have their life medicalized for the rest of time, that ain't a solution.

02:16:34.000 And it's profitable.

02:16:36.000 Which is even scarier.

02:16:37.000 So once these institutions become established and start making money off of it, they want to continue to.

02:16:43.000 Well, that's why I think we're ahead of the US in the UK, because we don't have that profit motive to do it.

02:16:49.000 I was going to ask you, do you think we've reached peak work, Joe?

02:16:52.000 Do you think we're past it now?

02:16:53.000 Do you think we've turned the tide?

02:16:55.000 It's still here.

02:16:56.000 I mean, it's like we killed off most of the wolves, but there's still a lot.

02:17:03.000 I think it's always going to be a thing that people ascribe to.

02:17:07.000 There's always going to be a thing that people join up with because it's very...

02:17:12.000 They're very aggressive in the ideology.

02:17:15.000 People like aggressive things.

02:17:17.000 Just like Nazis never really went away.

02:17:19.000 There's just like way less of them.

02:17:20.000 You know?

02:17:21.000 Like when you get on Twitter today, you can still find some real Nazis, which is kind of crazy.

02:17:25.000 Because you would have thought after 45, ah, we hit peak Nazi. 0.72

02:17:30.000 It's over.

02:17:31.000 But it's not.

02:17:32.000 There's always going to be woke people. 0.99

02:17:34.000 There's always going to be crazy, ridiculous people that take things to the extreme. 0.98

02:17:38.000 In the 60s, it was the weather underground. 1.00

02:17:41.000 You're always going to have people that are out of their fucking mind. 0.99

02:17:42.000 You're always going to have Antifa. 0.99

02:17:44.000 You're always going to have something like that where people believe the most extreme version of something.

02:17:51.000 Because it gives them meaning.

02:17:52.000 And it's a group you can just join.

02:17:54.000 Anybody can join.

02:17:55.000 And then you start fighting for it because those other people are the downfall of civilization.

02:18:00.000 You know, I wonder about that online stuff because based on what I see, I don't see it reflected in like normal day-to-day life. 0.98

02:18:06.000 And we had Ashley St. Clair on our show last time we were in the U.S. And she was talking about all these idiots running around going, repeal the 19th. 0.99

02:18:14.000 You've heard this bullshit? 1.00

02:18:15.000 And she said at the time, she said a lot of this is foreign influence. 0.99

02:18:20.000 And I was like, okay, I mean, I don't know.

02:18:23.000 And then you had this tenant media thing.

02:18:25.000 Did you follow this?

02:18:26.000 What is it?

02:18:27.000 Tenant Media.

02:18:28.000 It was Tenant Media.

02:18:29.000 Did you follow that?

02:18:31.000 Not much.

02:18:32.000 Yeah.

02:18:32.000 So it was basically the Russian government through various proxies gave $10 million to people in America.

02:18:38.000 I think it was Lauren Chen and her husband's company.

02:18:41.000 Oh, that's right.

02:18:42.000 So what was going on with that?

02:18:44.000 Were they saying positive things about Russia?

02:18:47.000 I don't think, from what I've seen, I may be wrong about this, I didn't see any evidence that any of the influencers who ended up being paid were on the payroll to do specific things.

02:18:59.000 Do you think it's valuable to them to give the money just so those people can be dismissed?

02:19:05.000 It's so that those people can pollute the space, right?

02:19:07.000 If everyone thinks the right wants to repeal women's right to vote, that divides society and it creates chaos.

02:19:15.000 Like when I see all these Nazis talking online, I don't see that reflected.

02:19:18.000 Like we went to the Trump rally, none of them were there.

02:19:20.000 Every time Israel got mentioned, there was a big cheer.

02:19:23.000 You know what I mean?

02:19:24.000 So I don't see that reflected in reality.

02:19:26.000 And I wonder how many of those thousands of likes and retweets are real.

02:19:30.000 Right.

02:19:31.000 That's a factor.

02:19:32.000 Did you see the thing that happened at the Trump boat rally in Florida where a Nazi boat pulled up and they had like swastikas and everything and the whole deal and with masks on and everybody just started hosing them? 0.99

02:19:45.000 Get the fuck out of here because it's a kind of agent provocateur type deal. 0.98

02:19:49.000 Where you probably have someone, some group, that wants to make all the Trump people look like Nazis, so they show up. 0.99

02:19:56.000 And then I saw media outlets report on it, like the Nazi flags we're seeing at the Trump rally.

02:20:02.000 Yeah, and it's a great point, but the thing we always focus on with the right is the far right, and we should focus on them, and we should talk about them.

02:20:09.000 We never talk about the far left and communism.

02:20:12.000 Right.

02:20:13.000 And, you know, people on, like...

02:20:15.000 I'm Venezuelan.

02:20:17.000 There were people in the Labour Party eulogising Chavez round about 2005 at the same time as he was putting my relatives in jail.

02:20:26.000 And then they were just there going, and then they've all moved on.

02:20:30.000 And they've disappeared like butterflies in the wind and no one addresses it anymore.

02:20:34.000 And everyone's like, oh, well, that's fine.

02:20:36.000 And you go, so where's the consistency?

02:20:38.000 If you're going to hold the right to account, and you should hold the right to account, you've got to hold your own side to account with people who are like, well, communism was never tried.

02:20:48.000 And you're going, I think it was, mate.

02:20:50.000 Yeah.

02:20:51.000 Just wasn't tried right.

02:20:52.000 Well, the reason I ask you...

02:20:54.000 Those kids in Brooklyn haven't figured out.

02:20:56.000 Yeah.

02:20:57.000 The reason I ask you about peak woke is I heard Rahm Emanuel.

02:21:00.000 Remember, he was Obama's chief of staff, mayor of Chicago.

02:21:02.000 He was on Sam Harris's podcast.

02:21:05.000 And they had a very interesting conversation where people in the center of the left, they are backtracking on wokeness and quickly.

02:21:13.000 They're like, oh, that was just a moment.

02:21:15.000 Yeah, we led some crazies.

02:21:16.000 That's kind of how they're talking about.

02:21:17.000 Is that where Sam's at right now?

02:21:18.000 I don't know about Sam.

02:21:20.000 Sam is, I think, Sam is uber anti-woke.

02:21:22.000 He always has been. 0.99

02:21:23.000 And he was pushing Emmanuel to kind of go, why doesn't Kamala Harris come out and say, look, I went along with all this woke shit, like many of us did, right? 0.98

02:21:33.000 That was a moment. 0.98

02:21:34.000 You know, I was wrong about that.

02:21:36.000 We're not talking about that now.

02:21:37.000 We're talking about make America better, make America richer.

02:21:40.000 Why don't those people just draw a line under it and say that was a mistake?

02:21:47.000 And a lot of people on the center-left now are awake to this moment, I think.

02:21:51.000 That's why I asked you, because there does seem to be something happening.

02:21:55.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:21:56.000 Something's happening and I think it was inevitable because it's so much of what people are dealing with is just stupid. 0.99

02:22:03.000 There's so much pushback against it and that's what Trump represents. 0.98

02:22:07.000 That's what the reason why there were 75,000 people outside of Madison Square Garden and the place was overflowing with humans. 0.58

02:22:16.000 That's what it represents.

02:22:18.000 People are tired of being badgered.

02:22:21.000 They're tired of being lectured to.

02:22:22.000 They're tired of being told what to think and what to say and what to believe.

02:22:26.000 And they don't like it.

02:22:27.000 They don't like that this one party is – keep talking about change, but they've been in control for 12 out of the past – no, 14 out of the past 16 years.

02:22:37.000 That's crazy.

02:22:38.000 How can you be talking about change?

02:22:41.000 They're tired of it.

02:22:42.000 They want something to be different that makes them feel like there's hope.

02:22:45.000 And they're also tired of being called bad people.

02:22:48.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:22:48.000 Because at the end of the day, left and right, they're both half the fucking country. 0.99

02:22:52.000 Right. 1.00

02:22:53.000 Right?

02:22:53.000 So you can't run a country by claiming that half the country is evil in some way.

02:22:59.000 You can't do that about the right.

02:23:01.000 You can't do that about the left.

02:23:02.000 Look, the people on the right, they are the firefighters and the police officers and the soldiers.

02:23:07.000 It's stereotypically speaking.

02:23:08.000 Of course, there's left-wing firefighters.

02:23:09.000 You know what I mean.

02:23:09.000 Yeah.

02:23:10.000 Right?

02:23:11.000 You're gonna run a country without firefighters and police?

02:23:13.000 Right.

02:23:14.000 You're gonna run a country without soldiers?

02:23:16.000 Right.

02:23:16.000 I mean, we tried running a country without police, mate.

02:23:19.000 Yeah, it doesn't work very well, right?

02:23:20.000 Yeah. 0.87

02:23:21.000 And likewise, you need also the more creatively minded people who are on the left and who run the administrative shit and other kinds of things. 0.57

02:23:28.000 Yeah. 0.91

02:23:28.000 You need both sides to realize in this country, you're all Americans. 0.91

02:23:33.000 In our country, you're all British. 1.00

02:23:35.000 Like, you want to be tribal, go for it, but let's agree we're all one, and then we can go be tribal against China or whatever.

02:23:41.000 You know what I mean?

02:23:41.000 We need someone who's a leader who can articulate that, that's a part of one of the major parties, who can say that and sort of unite people.

02:23:49.000 And you're not getting that from either side. 1.00

02:23:51.000 Either side is, the other side is stupid, and they're going to be the downfall of us, and this is a dumb person, this is an evil person. 1.00

02:24:01.000 There's no uniting. 1.00

02:24:03.000 It should be...

02:24:04.000 I don't think you have to do it that way.

02:24:07.000 I really don't.

02:24:08.000 Because I think if somebody just avoided all that stuff and just focused entirely on the good things that are possible if we all work together, everybody is not going to listen to their opponent who's constantly shitting on them. 0.99

02:24:20.000 If this one person is shitting on the other person relentlessly and the other person doesn't even respond to it, just talks about what they want to do, that person looks really stupid and petty. 0.99

02:24:27.000 Hmm. 1.00

02:24:28.000 But as soon as you engage, now you're just like them.

02:24:31.000 And now it's like, I had to hit them back.

02:24:33.000 Like, do you?

02:24:34.000 Do you really?

02:24:35.000 How about just say what you think you can do and say what needs to be done and how you're going to do it?

02:24:40.000 And I think this is a reason why we in the UK have made far greater strides with the whole...

02:24:48.000 Medical intervention with children issue is because it's not really a political issue.

02:24:55.000 People on the left have spoken out against it and people on the right and the people like heroes like JK Rowling and the moment you get people like that talking about it on both sides people are then able to listen because it's someone from their side who they think is inverted commas a good person going oh she's talking about it.

02:25:13.000 Did you see the thing that she tweeted about the puberty blocker study that they wouldn't release?

02:25:18.000 Yeah.

02:25:19.000 It's so crazy.

02:25:20.000 They made a puberty blocker study.

02:25:22.000 They found out it doesn't help the kids, doesn't help their mental health, and they thought that it would embolden the other side.

02:25:29.000 So they decided not to release it.

02:25:31.000 So you found out that it's bad for kids.

02:25:33.000 You don't want people to know that it's bad for kids.

02:25:35.000 And she wrote, so you could keep doing terrible things to kids.

02:25:40.000 But again, it just shouldn't be a partisan issue, right?

02:25:44.000 Of course, especially with children.

02:25:46.000 Jesus Christ, that's crazy.

02:25:48.000 Also, the thing in the UK, you guys have socialized medicine.

02:25:52.000 So there's not this giant machine behind it the way it is here.

02:25:54.000 The other thing about America is advertisement.

02:25:57.000 So this is one of two countries in the world where pharmaceutical drug companies can advertise and that's not good.

02:26:04.000 That's clearly not good. 0.72

02:26:05.000 We're fucking full-on captured by them and the amount of money that they can make and then the whole system behind them is so deeply ingrained in money. 0.88

02:26:14.000 You know, it's just they've got their hooks in deep in politics and television and media. 0.96

02:26:19.000 They got their hooks in deep and that's not good and that's why You can have these conversations in America and medical stuff gets connected to left or right wing.

02:26:29.000 But the great thing is with America is your First Amendment.

02:26:35.000 You're so lucky to have that, Joe.

02:26:37.000 You're so lucky that you don't have...

02:26:40.000 What we have, where politicians are openly talking about we need to tackle Islamophobia.

02:26:47.000 I was talking to a very, very senior member of the police.

02:26:52.000 He came to one of my gigs.

02:26:53.000 And then we got on the tube home.

02:26:55.000 And this is a very, very senior guy.

02:26:57.000 Deals with government.

02:26:58.000 And I go to him, how long do you think until we have hate speech laws in England?

02:27:04.000 Because Scotland has a different legal system.

02:27:07.000 And he went probably two to two and a half years.

02:27:11.000 And the fact that this guy was just very matter-of-fact about it made me realize that we're in trouble.

02:27:22.000 We're in trouble.

02:27:23.000 Because if the government comes in and starts legislating, starts clamping down, that's when you're living under authoritarian regime and run authoritarian rule.

02:27:33.000 But the fact you have this free speech amendment, and you've said it yourself, if you don't believe in free speech, you're not American, That is such a beautiful thing.

02:27:42.000 This is the way people have to look at it.

02:27:44.000 You would think that stopping hate speech would be a good thing, and it would.

02:27:47.000 It would be great if everybody voluntarily stopped using hate speech.

02:27:50.000 It would be wonderful.

02:27:52.000 But as soon as you can define hate speech in as simple a terms as calling someone by their original name when they've decided to change genders, Like, if you don't want to be Francis anymore, but I insist on calling you Francis, and you can put me in jail for that, that's really crazy.

02:28:07.000 And it's dangerous, because it's just control.

02:28:11.000 And you can't allow that kind of control to be in the hands of any government body where, because of the words out of your mouth, they can now put you in a cage.

02:28:21.000 That's a crazy precedent to set.

02:28:22.000 Forget it.

02:28:23.000 Put yourself outside of who's right or who's wrong and just think about the concept of the words that you say and opinion that you espouse can put you in a cage.

02:28:33.000 You don't ever want to give the government that because that can keep moving.

02:28:37.000 That definition of what is hate can keep moving. 0.86

02:28:40.000 It can keep moving to a really ridiculous place.

02:28:43.000 Which I think it is if you're doing things like gender identity.

02:28:47.000 Especially if someone decides, like if Admiral Levine, that person, that Rachel Levine person, if you can't say, hey, that looks like a guy.

02:28:55.000 If you can't say that, now you're getting locked up for what?

02:29:00.000 Accurate observations.

02:29:01.000 This is nuts, and it's dangerous because once you set a precedent, then they can keep moving that further and further down the line.

02:29:09.000 They attach you to a social credit score system, and then they decide whether or not you can buy groceries.

02:29:14.000 And now they can kind of dictate your behavior in the way you talk and think, and now we're in 1984. Legit.

02:29:20.000 And you don't have to even be a genius to understand this.

02:29:23.000 If you look at history, look at all the societies where speech is heavily restricted.

02:29:27.000 You would not want to live in any of those places.

02:29:30.000 And you don't get any creativity.

02:29:31.000 You miss out on everything that it is to be an American.

02:29:34.000 You miss out on all the cool...

02:29:36.000 This is like the...

02:29:37.000 In terms of like entertainment, how much entertainment comes out of the United States that the world consumes in terms of music, comedy, movies?

02:29:45.000 A giant percentage of the world's entertainment comes out of right here because you have the ability to freely express yourself.

02:29:52.000 Yeah, and that's the reason Hollywood's in the doldrums now, because they don't have the ability to freely express themselves. 0.99

02:29:59.000 You know who doesn't get fucked with? 0.99

02:30:00.000 Rappers. 1.00

02:30:02.000 They can still get wild. 0.97

02:30:04.000 They get wild. 1.00

02:30:05.000 They get fucking wild. 1.00

02:30:07.000 They still do. 1.00

02:30:07.000 They say crazy shit in rap songs that you could never get away with in any kind of rock and roll song or pop song. 1.00

02:30:15.000 That Mexican OT, do you know who that guy is? 0.99

02:30:17.000 I have that dude in here, he's awesome.

02:30:19.000 He's hilarious.

02:30:20.000 But he's got this song, he's like... 0.78

02:30:22.000 The rap is ridiculous, it's so crazy, but it's like that old-school, braggadocious, fun kind of music. 0.91

02:30:37.000 Again, entertainment. 0.96

02:30:38.000 He's a wonderful guy.

02:30:39.000 You meet him, he's a really nice guy.

02:30:40.000 Very cool.

02:30:41.000 Very cool dude.

02:30:42.000 Very fun.

02:30:42.000 But it's an art form.

02:30:44.000 It's an art form, just like death metal is an art form.

02:30:47.000 It's like a kind... 1.00

02:30:48.000 People like different shit. 1.00

02:30:50.000 And rap, for whatever reason, has gotten a pass. 1.00

02:30:53.000 Because people are scared of being called racist.

02:30:57.000 That's black privilege, Sean, right? 0.99

02:31:00.000 Poor Mexican. 1.00

02:31:01.000 In this guy's case.

02:31:03.000 They should have had him open the Trump ratings.

02:31:05.000 That would have been amazing.

02:31:08.000 I think he performed in front of Andrew Schultz's special.

02:31:12.000 I think he did.

02:31:14.000 Or at least Andrew used his song.

02:31:16.000 I mean, what they did to Andrew was wild as well.

02:31:18.000 Did you follow this?

02:31:19.000 Oh, it was fascinating.

02:31:20.000 But again, had the opposite effect.

02:31:22.000 So that was this Brooklyn theater.

02:31:26.000 They found out right after he did the Trump podcast, three hours later, they pulled his special.

02:31:32.000 He was supposed to be filming a special there.

02:31:34.000 He'd already done a walkthrough of the theater, approved the theater.

02:31:37.000 They were going to sell tickets, and they pulled it.

02:31:40.000 And it's just a political thing.

02:31:45.000 I'm assuming business people, right?

02:31:47.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:31:47.000 What the fuck do they think they're achieving by doing? 0.99

02:31:49.000 Do they think they're going to suppress his special? 0.99

02:31:52.000 Yeah, they think, well, no.

02:31:53.000 They know he'll do it somewhere else.

02:31:55.000 He's big enough where it doesn't matter.

02:31:56.000 Andrew can do anything.

02:31:58.000 He's huge.

02:31:59.000 So he could go anywhere else.

02:32:01.000 Every other place would be happy to have him.

02:32:02.000 But they take a stand.

02:32:04.000 They're signalling to their audience.

02:32:06.000 Yes, they're signalling to their community that people don't feel safe.

02:32:12.000 It has the opposite effect.

02:32:16.000 It just makes Andrew bigger.

02:32:17.000 People find out about it, they get outraged, they can't wait to get tickets for his new place.

02:32:21.000 So now he's going to go to a new place that's bigger and better, and their special will be even bigger.

02:32:28.000 He's an undeniable guy.

02:32:30.000 There's certain people that are just undeniable forces.

02:32:33.000 They're undeniably talented. 1.00

02:32:35.000 And they'll find a way through all this stupid shit. 1.00

02:32:37.000 Tony's one of them. 1.00

02:32:38.000 He's undeniable.

02:32:40.000 He'll make his way through this and be better than ever.

02:32:43.000 This attacking that they did with Andrew just was so ineffective and it just made him bigger.

02:32:48.000 But it wasn't really attacking. 0.93

02:32:50.000 They just said they don't want to be a part of it, which I guess if it's your fucking theater and you just have this decision and you want to do it and it's not really going to harm him. 0.84

02:32:58.000 If you understand the publicity effect, what it's going to do is the opposite. 0.83

02:33:02.000 It's going to make this person who just interviewed Trump even more popular.

02:33:06.000 Go have at it.

02:33:07.000 Did you have a lot of pushback after you had Trump on?

02:33:09.000 I have no idea.

02:33:10.000 I don't pay attention.

02:33:12.000 That's a smart thing to do.

02:33:13.000 It's the only way to do it.

02:33:14.000 I've adopted that a long time ago, and I wasn't going to change it for Trump, for the Trump interview.

02:33:20.000 I'm not paying attention.

02:33:21.000 I don't know.

02:33:22.000 But figures like Andrew and Tony are really important for the culture because they send a very, very strong message to everybody else.

02:33:32.000 You are not going to cancel me.

02:33:34.000 You are not going to win.

02:33:35.000 And in fact, the tactics that you use to try and suppress me, to try and stifle me, all they're going to do is make me better, bigger and stronger.

02:33:44.000 And that's such a beautiful message to send out to everybody.

02:33:47.000 Just go, you know what?

02:33:48.000 You tried to stop me.

02:33:50.000 All you're doing is making me even more powerful.

02:33:53.000 I think people are realizing that now.

02:33:55.000 I think it really worked back in the day.

02:33:58.000 Like, you could cancel some people back then.

02:34:00.000 There's some people that have been legit, like Milo.

02:34:02.000 He got legitimately canceled.

02:34:04.000 Remember, that guy used to be on, he was on Bill Maher's show.

02:34:07.000 He was everywhere.

02:34:08.000 He was, oh, these videos.

02:34:10.000 He would sit down.

02:34:11.000 I had him on the podcast.

02:34:12.000 The guy was great. 0.99

02:34:13.000 Back in the day, Bill Maher actually compared him to Christopher Hitchens, and everybody's like, shut the fuck up, they're mad. 0.98

02:34:19.000 He's a funny, articulate gay guy with a bit of a drug problem that is a Republican. 1.00

02:34:25.000 Everybody's like, what the fuck are we going to do with this? 0.95

02:34:27.000 And for him, it was a great avenue to get through, and so wildly popular. 0.95

02:34:31.000 They remove him from Twitter, they remove him from everything, they remove him from YouTube, and he kind of goes away.

02:34:37.000 What did he say?

02:34:38.000 Well, he talked about his own experiences as an underage man.

02:34:44.000 Oh, that's what.

02:34:45.000 So it sounded like he was kind of condoning.

02:34:48.000 He was kind of condoning.

02:34:49.000 And he was kind of saying it, not just on my podcast, but there was another podcast where he talked about these men becoming like mentors to young gay boys and that it actually helps them.

02:35:02.000 And everyone's like, you're talking about pedophilia.

02:35:04.000 The Greek model, right? 0.87

02:35:05.000 That's what the Greeks used to do. 0.68

02:35:07.000 It's considered different when you think about man to boy who is a gay boy versus man to heterosexual girl.

02:35:17.000 People get much more offended at the idea of a grown man and a young girl that's heterosexual.

02:35:23.000 That's molesting. 1.00

02:35:25.000 Whereas with a lot of gay guys, and I'm not saying this is right, but their attitude is this is what they wanted when they were 14. That's what Milo said, like, I was a predator. 0.98

02:35:35.000 That's literally what he said on the podcast.

02:35:37.000 Believe me, I was the predator. 0.99

02:35:39.000 It's like, ridiculous. 0.89

02:35:40.000 But that's his experience, and he was talking about it, and they were like, that's all we needed. 0.96

02:35:45.000 Like, this guy is defending pedophilia, and they went after him.

02:35:49.000 And that was back in the day when Twitter was solely controlled by the left.

02:35:53.000 And you could cancel a guy like that.

02:35:56.000 And it was effective.

02:35:57.000 And, you know, I remember a lot of arguments when people were trying to de-platform people, like when they de-platformed Trump and there was a few other people that got de-platform, they were saying de-platforming works.

02:36:07.000 This is what's been shown, de-platforming works. 0.93

02:36:10.000 Right, for a little while, you fucking idiots, it's actually gonna, if someone crazy like Elon comes along and has the money to back it up and says, I'm gonna step in and I'm gonna make a Wild West Twitter, When I had Jack on the podcast, he was talking about doing two versions of Twitter. 0.99

02:36:27.000 Doing a regulated, moderated Twitter, and then a Wild West Twitter. 0.99

02:36:32.000 And I was like, when's the Wild West Twitter?

02:36:34.000 And that's what Elon did.

02:36:35.000 He opened up a Wild West Twitter. 0.99

02:36:37.000 Dude, there's some shit that I find on Twitter that I'm like, what? 0.99

02:36:41.000 Like, this is nothing. 0.99

02:36:43.000 They're doing a pretty good job of hiding that, where you've got to click through to see some of the more egregious things that people say.

02:36:50.000 But yeah, I mean, the problem is as well is that you de-platform, there's gonna be somebody out there who's gonna go, you know what?

02:36:58.000 We're gonna build a platform.

02:36:59.000 Right, but you know what they did with those platforms?

02:37:01.000 They infiltrated those platforms with hate, right? 0.97

02:37:05.000 So like, if maybe reasonable right-wing people decided to leave and start their own thing, you saw these bots that would go to these unregulated places and say the most outrageous, horrible shit, and they might not even be real people.

02:37:20.000 And according to, we've talked about this many times, but according to an FBI analyst who was examining Twitter and the interactions on Twitter, his estimation was it could be as high as 80% bots.

02:37:33.000 So if you try to open up, whether it's Truth Social or just pick a name, Gab.

02:37:39.000 Gab had a problem with that.

02:37:40.000 You just get bombarded by bots who are trying to ruin your company, right?

02:37:47.000 Whether that's the government or whether it's competing social media companies.

02:37:51.000 Like, if there's no laws about this, if there's no laws about creating bots and you're running, you know, whatever it is, threads, and then this other thing opens up and you go, you know what?

02:38:01.000 Let's fill that place up with Nazis. 1.00

02:38:03.000 And you just start... 1.00

02:38:05.000 You're having these computers that you have connected to all these accounts just posting the worst shit possible. 1.00

02:38:11.000 Michelle Obama's got a dick and the White House is filled with pedophiles and you just like flood it with craziness and now nobody wants to go there. 0.99

02:38:19.000 You go there and you're looking for like a reasonable Republican conservative social media platform that you could join and you could talk about things that are bothering you. 1.00

02:38:27.000 You can't even go there.

02:38:29.000 Yeah, and what they did is in the case of Parler is that they then shut it down and they pulled the plug.

02:38:35.000 Do you remember that?

02:38:35.000 Take their servers away all of that.

02:38:37.000 Right.

02:38:37.000 It's a perfect example, right?

02:38:39.000 Now you don't have this right-wing version of this thing.

02:38:42.000 Well, this is one thing I'm really hoping Elon gets to because he's been kind of busy, as we know. 0.86

02:38:47.000 And I think him taking over Twitter is fucking awesome. 0.71

02:38:49.000 It's really... 0.93

02:38:50.000 Opened up a lot of things that needed opening up.

02:38:52.000 But one of the things you talked about early on was bots.

02:38:55.000 And I feel like there's probably a lot more work to do on that.

02:38:58.000 So when they get around to that, that would make Twitter better.

02:39:01.000 Because I do hear from a lot of people who are just like, I'm glad it's more open now. 1.00

02:39:06.000 But every time I open my For You thing, it's like, fuck! 0.97

02:39:09.000 But the thing is, it's like, okay, if you decided that the way to eliminate bots is to require ID... This is where it gets weird because there's data breaches. 0.98

02:39:17.000 So if you're posting something under Skippy McCoy 69, you got some crazy fake name, and then all of a sudden it gets revealed that this is you and maybe you work in a right-wing office and you're posting something about abortion rights and people just decide, 0.99

02:39:34.000 let's get rid of that fucking guy because now we know it's you. 0.99

02:39:37.000 It's complicated. 1.00

02:39:38.000 Yeah, for sure.

02:39:39.000 People have been fired from things they posted on Reddit.

02:39:41.000 Yeah.

02:39:42.000 Where they're shitposting.

02:39:43.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:39:43.000 Shitposting on Reddit is a lot like talking shit when you don't mean it in a group chat. 1.00

02:39:48.000 We're just saying ridiculous. 1.00

02:39:49.000 Like Ari Shaffir says the most horrendous things. 0.98

02:39:52.000 He doesn't mean it.

02:39:53.000 Ari's a great guy.

02:39:54.000 He's saying something because it's funny to say.

02:39:57.000 And when you stop that because you can go and investigate who this person is, People say things they don't mean just because they want to get a rise out of people because they're bored and they're like an anonymous person. 1.00

02:40:09.000 They'll say horrible shit. 0.98

02:40:10.000 They'll come up with a horrible meme. 1.00

02:40:12.000 Are we really gonna fire these people?

02:40:13.000 They're gonna lose their livelihood for something that is just for them.

02:40:17.000 It's like sport almost.

02:40:19.000 Definitely not.

02:40:20.000 But what I'm saying is to the extent of foreign governments interfering with what we think is the truth and what we think is the real conversation.

02:40:27.000 To the extent that other nefarious actors are trying to manipulate views, clicks, etc. 0.98

02:40:32.000 That's a big fucking problem. 0.99

02:40:34.000 It's a big fucking problem and it's a problem that doesn't seem to be addressed at all. 1.00

02:40:38.000 No. 0.99

02:40:39.000 And we don't even know how many people are involved in this because it's so difficult.

02:40:42.000 If you're going through a VPN and you've got a computer bank and you've got these people that look real because you can now you can make artificial photos of families.

02:40:52.000 You can decide, I want a black woman and a Chinese man, and this is their family, and AI. I want you to create their kids. 0.95

02:41:00.000 And so you can have all these posts on Instagram like, oh, you can follow these people over the years. 1.00

02:41:04.000 It's all bullshit. 0.98

02:41:06.000 And that's so easy to do now. 1.00

02:41:08.000 And you can do it on Twitter.

02:41:09.000 It's way more easy because nobody even wants to see pictures of you. 1.00

02:41:12.000 So you can have a bunch of posts about things that happen to you during the day that make you look like a real person, and just Nazi shit! 0.97

02:41:20.000 And this is the issue as well, is that when people talk about hate speech, they're making an incredibly complex issue very simple. 0.99

02:41:28.000 Because they go, oh yeah, we're going to get rid of hate speech.

02:41:30.000 And then you go, well, what does that mean?

02:41:33.000 And what is going to be the effects of that?

02:41:36.000 And also as well, look, there's a lot of young kids on social media. 1.00

02:41:39.000 I don't know about you, but when I was a young kid, I said lots of dumb shit. 0.99

02:41:43.000 Are you then going to destroy someone's life for the next 20 years because they said something that could be racist or maybe is racist when they're 15 years old? 0.99

02:41:52.000 Also, there's some things that people see that people have attempted to make mainstream that people have rejected.

02:42:01.000 Like, one of them is minor attracted persons.

02:42:03.000 Right!

02:42:04.000 Right?

02:42:04.000 You've seen this, right?

02:42:05.000 It's MAP, Joe, please.

02:42:07.000 Let's have some respect.

02:42:08.000 I've seen legitimate professors say that it's offensive to call someone a pedophile and you should call them a minor attracted person and not to marginalize them.

02:42:19.000 What if it becomes hate speech to call someone a pedophile, right?

02:42:22.000 That is not...

02:42:24.000 When you see how far we've gone, that's not outside of what could be possible. 0.95

02:42:28.000 Yeah, because if you follow this train of thought to its logical conclusion, and if they are a minority, and all minorities need to be protected, particularly from a majority who dislike them, and particularly in the case of pedophiles where the majority fucking hate them,

02:42:44.000 then you go, well, you know, this person can't help who they are, therefore they need protection and they are a marginalized group.

02:42:50.000 Yeah, and how much of that is being manipulated by foreign entities?

02:42:54.000 How many people are out there trying to get us riled up about stuff?

02:42:58.000 I remember the Renee DiResta thing where she found out that there was a Texas separatist meeting that was organized by these troll farms right across the street from this Muslim meeting. 0.85

02:43:10.000 Like, they literally had them on the same block. 1.00

02:43:12.000 So they're both protesting like, fuck you, fuck you! 1.00

02:43:17.000 And they're just riling people up. 1.00

02:43:19.000 And the idea was that they're doing this to...

02:43:22.000 There's a certain percentage of that that's going to diminish our faith in democracy, that's going to diminish our faith in our system.

02:43:30.000 Well, this is what Yuri Bezmenov was talking about.

02:43:31.000 You've seen the stuff, right?

02:43:33.000 And I 100% believe there's a lot of that going on right now.

02:43:36.000 100%.

02:43:37.000 It's too accurate.

02:43:38.000 That speech that he gave in 1984, when you apply it today, it's like, oh my god.

02:43:43.000 He was off by like a decade or so. 0.68

02:43:45.000 But not by much, because a couple of decades ago, if you were in a university, it's still pretty ridiculous.

02:43:50.000 There's just no social media to amplify it to the rest of the world.

02:43:53.000 It was like slowly taking root, but the thing that amplified it to the rest of the world was social media.

02:44:00.000 And that was the unseen element that really threw the gasoline on the fire.

02:44:06.000 I really think this issue actually, in my opinion, is a national security issue.

02:44:10.000 Yeah.

02:44:11.000 And I think that when you look at, it's not just this social media influencing, but it extends beyond that.

02:44:17.000 It's other countries, hostile countries funding colleges and universities.

02:44:21.000 It's doing all of that kind of stuff.

02:44:23.000 I really think the West needs to get serious about that and go, do we want foreign countries to be dictating to our citizens what the truth is? 0.94

02:44:31.000 Right.

02:44:32.000 And we're going to have to reckon with that.

02:44:34.000 That can't just be left to its own devices because it's not going to end well.

02:44:38.000 Yeah, it's not.

02:44:39.000 And it's scary that most people aren't aware that it's even taking place.

02:44:43.000 You know, they think that these people with these opinions, this represents a sizable portion of the country and it's real.

02:44:49.000 And a lot of it is not real.

02:44:51.000 And we're not sure how much of it is real.

02:44:54.000 And so we don't even really know what the conversation actually is between all of us.

02:44:59.000 And then there's no like reasonable people who are calling for civility, where people go, hey, I like how that guy's talking.

02:45:06.000 There's no reasonable people calling for some sort of a coming together and a compromising.

02:45:12.000 I mean, the most interesting people in the Republican Party right now are people who used to be Democrats, which is fascinating.

02:45:18.000 It's like people of abandoned ship.

02:45:20.000 Yeah.

02:45:21.000 And the thing that worries me is, I talk to a lot of young people, and we've had young people on the show.

02:45:29.000 One person in particular was talking about the fact that young people don't believe in democracy anymore.

02:45:35.000 Right.

02:45:35.000 They just go, the system doesn't work.

02:45:37.000 It doesn't represent me.

02:45:39.000 Whenever we elect someone, they don't do what we want them to do.

02:45:44.000 What's the point?

02:45:46.000 What we need is an oligarchy. 0.98

02:45:48.000 We need strong men to come in and sort this out.

02:45:51.000 And you're like, whoa!

02:45:54.000 Careful what you wish for, because I've seen that.

02:45:56.000 Or socialism, which always leads to an oligarchy.

02:45:59.000 Yeah.

02:45:59.000 Or just a dictator.

02:46:01.000 That's why there are people on the fringes of the right who are obsessed with Bukele. 0.59

02:46:05.000 And Bukele has done a lot of good things in his country.

02:46:09.000 Who's Bukele? 1.00

02:46:09.000 He's the president of El Salvador. 1.00

02:46:14.000 Incredibly popular.

02:46:15.000 He basically took anyone who was a gang member and just threw them in prison.

02:46:19.000 Right.

02:46:20.000 And the country is a lot better.

02:46:22.000 Right.

02:46:22.000 I've seen all that online.

02:46:24.000 And, you know, I don't know enough about it to say whether it's entirely a good thing or a bad thing, but you can see the temptation to kind of go, well, why don't we just have one guy come in and sort this shit out? 0.98

02:46:34.000 Right. 0.97

02:46:36.000 But, you know, the real problem is how did they get there in the first place?

02:46:39.000 Yeah.

02:46:40.000 Where the real problem is, instead of cutting off the cancer, saying, why are we getting cancer?

02:46:45.000 What are we eating?

02:46:46.000 What are we consuming?

02:46:47.000 What's wrong with our society that's giving us these people that are gang members?

02:46:51.000 And she's, I'm not a gang member, you're not a gang member.

02:46:53.000 So, okay, a lot of people grow up and they don't become gang members.

02:46:56.000 So, how do we make more of that?

02:46:58.000 How do we make more people that are productive, normal people that are integrated into society, and less gang members?

02:47:05.000 And?

02:47:06.000 Some people are going to be gang members and there's no getting away from that.

02:47:10.000 And those people, we have the police for that if we haven't defunded them.

02:47:14.000 So you have to have a combination.

02:47:16.000 On the one hand, you teach people how to live a good life, what you're talking about. 0.95

02:47:19.000 On the other hand, if you don't want to follow the rules, we're going to crack down on you pretty fucking hard.

02:47:25.000 Those two things together is how you get a good society.

02:47:27.000 Right.

02:47:27.000 And when you make excuses for why people are doing it, you call it systemic racism and all these different things, and you treat them with leniency, then you're encouraging people to do crimes because there's no repercussions.

02:47:38.000 So you're, again, not getting to the root of what's causing them to be like that in the first place, but you're minimizing what they're doing because you address the fact that there's a root.

02:47:49.000 So, again, you're dealing with the cancer, you're like, let the cancer grow.

02:47:52.000 Cancer is part of life.

02:47:54.000 Instead of saying, why am I getting cancer?

02:47:56.000 Yeah.

02:47:57.000 And also, the dangerous thing with Bukele, I went on a date with a girl who's now a Salvadorian journalist, and I said, look, I don't know anything about Bukele. 0.71

02:48:06.000 Tell me about him.

02:48:07.000 And she went to me that he gets his people to turn up if he doesn't like a story in the news.

02:48:18.000 And his guys have a word.

02:48:22.000 And to get this suppressed.

02:48:23.000 Well, this is the fear of the big strong man, right?

02:48:27.000 And this is the fear that a lot of people have of Trump.

02:48:29.000 They're scared that he would do that.

02:48:31.000 The thing that they keep bringing up, which is ironic, is him turning the justice system on his enemies. 0.99

02:48:37.000 You guys are so crazy. 1.00

02:48:39.000 This is like hookers getting mad at strippers. 1.00

02:48:44.000 What are you saying? 0.98

02:48:48.000 He hasn't even done it yet. 1.00

02:48:50.000 She gets her tits out. 1.00

02:48:51.000 This is so nuts. 1.00

02:48:54.000 The way they're talking about it, it's almost like they don't know what they're doing.

02:48:59.000 They're not aware of what they're doing.

02:49:01.000 Well, they know what they're doing. 0.99

02:49:01.000 I don't give a fuck. 0.99

02:49:02.000 Yeah, one of those. 0.99

02:49:04.000 Either one's not good.

02:49:05.000 But, you know, from my conversation with Trump, I don't think he's the monster that everybody thinks he is.

02:49:11.000 And I think for sure there's been a gross distortion of a lot of the things that he said that's led to this, you know, the fine people hoax, the Russiagate hoax. 0.99

02:49:20.000 There's so many different, the suckers and losers hoax. 0.84

02:49:23.000 There's all these different things that people attribute to him to try to make him way worse than he really is. 0.96

02:49:28.000 Instead of just, like, addressing the things you don't like about him that are real.

02:49:32.000 You know and so it's this distortion and we know there's a distortion and that's why When he sits here and he talks for three hours people are so interested It's not just because what he says is interesting. 0.88

02:49:44.000 It's because we know you've been bullshitting We know that you've used the legal system to try to arrest this guy you've done some banana Republic shit where you're Trying to weaponize the legal system to go after your political opponents. 0.79

02:49:59.000 We know that so when you get a chance to see that guy talk You're like, oh, so this is who he is. 0.96

02:50:05.000 And again, he's being charming.

02:50:06.000 He knows millions of people are listening.

02:50:08.000 He's talking to me.

02:50:09.000 I've met him before.

02:50:10.000 We have a mutual good friend in Dana White. 0.99

02:50:12.000 He knows I'm not going to be an asshole. 0.99

02:50:14.000 So he's comfortable. 0.99

02:50:15.000 But you get a chance to see, well, he is that guy.

02:50:18.000 Part of him is that guy.

02:50:20.000 Like, it's not an act.

02:50:21.000 That's who he is.

02:50:22.000 He is that guy.

02:50:23.000 He's not a terrible person.

02:50:25.000 It's just you may or may not agree with his approach.

02:50:27.000 You may or may not agree with how he runs his business and how he wants to do things.

02:50:32.000 But if you keep using the word fascist against him, you ratchet up the pressure, you ratchet up the tension.

02:50:39.000 So people are looking at him going, well, this guy's a fascist. 0.81

02:50:44.000 He's Hitler. 0.95

02:50:45.000 Therefore, we need to do everything in our power to stop Hitler coming to power. 0.96

02:50:49.000 Because if they did that in the 1930s, we wouldn't have World War II. Six million Jews wouldn't be exterminated.

02:50:55.000 Whoopi Goldberg was just saying he's gonna separate interracial couples.

02:50:58.000 What?

02:50:59.000 Oh, come on. 0.87

02:51:00.000 See if you can find that.

02:51:01.000 See if you can find that.

02:51:01.000 Really?

02:51:02.000 Yeah, I couldn't even watch it.

02:51:03.000 I saw the clip and I was like, I can't even watch this.

02:51:05.000 I'll lose my marbles.

02:51:07.000 It's so crazy.

02:51:08.000 Yeah.

02:51:08.000 But it's like, put you in camps.

02:51:10.000 I've heard that too.

02:51:11.000 They're gonna put people in camps. 0.97

02:51:12.000 They're gonna put gay people in camps too. 0.98

02:51:15.000 What? 0.99

02:51:15.000 He was president for four years. 0.99

02:51:17.000 None of these things happened.

02:51:18.000 He was already president.

02:51:19.000 This is part of the problem with saying this.

02:51:22.000 If he wasn't president before and he was saying outrageous things like, what if this guy gets in power?

02:51:26.000 But he was president.

02:51:28.000 He was president for four years.

02:51:29.000 And it's interesting from people who keep talking about hate, how much of that they're projecting onto him.

02:51:35.000 Well, let's have a look at this.

02:51:36.000 It's going to sound so crazy.

02:51:40.000 We'll get some volume.

02:51:42.000 We're good to go.

02:52:00.000 What we heard at that rally should be enough to shake folks away.

02:52:06.000 Because he's talking about you.

02:52:09.000 All of you.

02:52:10.000 All of you.

02:52:11.000 He's talking about you.

02:52:12.000 It's us.

02:52:13.000 He's not going to be, he's not going to, you know, say, oh, you're with a white guy.

02:52:17.000 I'm going to keep you from being deported. 0.76

02:52:20.000 No, he's going to deport you and put the white guy with someone else.

02:52:22.000 The man is out there.

02:52:26.000 Yeah, that's a large jump from what he's ever said.

02:52:30.000 That's a crazy thing to say.

02:52:32.000 That's why I thought you were very wise to bring the view up as the first thing you talked to him about, right?

02:52:37.000 Because you're just going, this is how it used to be.

02:52:40.000 And I remember the exact moment...

02:52:41.000 Nine years ago.

02:52:42.000 I remember...

02:52:44.000 It wasn't that long ago!

02:52:47.000 Our friend, Donald Trump.

02:52:49.000 They all come and hug him and kiss him.

02:52:51.000 Everybody loves you.

02:52:52.000 They were talking about how they love him.

02:52:54.000 Yeah man.

02:52:54.000 And the audience was cheering.

02:52:57.000 He was getting cheered on The View.

02:52:59.000 It is so wild to watch.

02:53:01.000 We didn't play it for him because we didn't want to give anybody any excuse to give us a copyright strike.

02:53:06.000 Because I wanted to play it.

02:53:07.000 I wanted to start the show off with him listening to him being on The View and go, what is this like?

02:53:12.000 Because there's no one ever that's had the machine turn on them.

02:53:16.000 Whether you agree with him or not agree, you must admit the Steele dossier, all the crazy stuff they put out on him, they've turned this machine on him in this way you've never seen before.

02:53:26.000 And this is how they used to look at him just nine years ago.

02:53:29.000 It was longer than that.

02:53:31.000 It was 2011. Oh, was it?

02:53:32.000 When he was running for president?

02:53:33.000 No, he wasn't running for president then.

02:53:35.000 Oh, he was talking about running for president?

02:53:36.000 He might have mentioned it then, but I don't think...

02:53:38.000 Well, he went on The View multiple times.

02:53:40.000 How many times did he go on?

02:53:41.000 He's been on...

02:53:42.000 When was the last time he went on?

02:53:43.000 That could have been his last appearance, I think.

02:53:45.000 Well, that makes sense, right?

02:53:46.000 Because Barbara Walters, when did she stop being on it? 1.00

02:53:49.000 Yeah, she was on that appearance.

02:53:50.000 And she looked pretty young back then.

02:53:53.000 So 2011. So, okay, 13 years ago.

02:53:55.000 Still nuts. 0.78

02:53:56.000 Still nuts.

02:53:57.000 It's not that long ago.

02:53:58.000 Not that long ago.

02:53:59.000 And for that complete about turn to go from the greatest guy who everyone wants to be the president to the devil incarnate in 13 years.

02:54:08.000 From the same people.

02:54:09.000 Joy Behar hugging him.

02:54:11.000 Whoopi Goldberg hugging him.

02:54:13.000 All of them hugging him.

02:54:14.000 That's quite a transformation.

02:54:16.000 Well, it's like they got their marching orders.

02:54:18.000 Yeah.

02:54:20.000 He was in the 2012 race.

02:54:22.000 Bows out of the 2012 U.S. President.

02:54:24.000 So that was when he was thinking about doing it in 2012?

02:54:26.000 Oh, remember at the White House press correspondence dinner when Obama roasted him?

02:54:31.000 And said, but I'm one thing that you'll never be.

02:54:34.000 President of the United States.

02:54:35.000 And everybody went, ah!

02:54:36.000 And he was like... 1.00

02:54:37.000 Alright, motherfucker. 1.00

02:54:39.000 You got the wrong dude! 1.00

02:54:42.000 There's fucking dudes out there that are like the boogeyman. 1.00

02:54:45.000 They just will keep coming. 1.00

02:54:46.000 Well, that's part of his appeal, man.

02:54:48.000 It's like when he got shot.

02:54:49.000 And he's badass.

02:54:51.000 Fight, fight, fight.

02:54:53.000 Fight, fight, fight.

02:54:54.000 And, you know, at this rally, there was this point when he was just...

02:54:59.000 It really struck home for me why people like him.

02:55:02.000 It was like he was talking about China and somebody had said...

02:55:06.000 Put out a report that if America had a war with China, America would lose.

02:55:10.000 And he was like, first of all, why would you put out that report? 1.00

02:55:13.000 And secondly, we would kick their ass. 0.99

02:55:18.000 And you kind of go, if you're an American and you want your country to be great, you want it to be successful, left or right, whatever your position is, do you want to be on the side of the people who think America's future is behind it? 1.00

02:55:31.000 Right.

02:55:32.000 Or do you want to be on the side of the people who think, yeah, we're going to kick ass, we're going to succeed, we're going to make money, we're going to be successful? 0.52

02:55:38.000 And there's also, like, looking at some of his foreign policy decisions and whether or not he was correct, one of them was the embargoes on Iran.

02:55:50.000 That seemed to have freed up a whole lot of money when the Biden administration Let those funds free, and then October 7th happens shortly thereafter.

02:56:02.000 And when you know that they fund these various terrorist organizations, this is something Iran's done. 0.83

02:56:10.000 This is not a big stretch to think that one of the reasons why these things are happening was because people went a different way than Donald Trump did when he was in office.

02:56:20.000 And a lot of people feel like that.

02:56:22.000 Like, logical, reasonable, left-wing people even.

02:56:27.000 It's because it's true. 0.72

02:56:28.000 Yeah.

02:56:28.000 It's true.

02:56:28.000 If you give the Iranians a shit ton of money, and also if they don't fear repercussions.

02:56:34.000 Right.

02:56:35.000 You put those two things together, is it a surprise?

02:56:38.000 No.

02:56:38.000 Do you think part of the problem is we think everyone just thinks like us?

02:56:42.000 So we're like, you know what, if we give more money to the Ayatollah, you know what he's going to do?

02:56:47.000 Yeah, alright, he's a bit nuts, but he's going to put money into social programs.

02:56:51.000 The average Iranian is going to be happier, healthier, wealthier.

02:56:56.000 Did you ever see that interview where this woman was asking the Taliban whether or not they're going to let women run for office now?

02:57:03.000 They just burst out laughing in her face. 0.99

02:57:06.000 Like, what are you talking about?

02:57:08.000 You don't understand this place at all.

02:57:10.000 It's called mirror image bias.

02:57:11.000 Actually, a lot of foreign intel guys, they get trained for years to not think that everyone is like them.

02:57:16.000 Because they're absolutely not.

02:57:18.000 The people in charge of Iran, they want to wage jihad against America and Israel. 1.00

02:57:25.000 What do jihadis do when they have money and opportunity?

02:57:28.000 Yeah, they go to Jihad.

02:57:31.000 They start going.

02:57:32.000 It's not complicated.

02:57:33.000 It's not complicated.

02:57:34.000 And Trump was aware of that.

02:57:37.000 Some of the decisions that he made were better decisions.

02:57:43.000 That's objectively true.

02:57:44.000 And now Israel is having to deal with these terrorist groups that are armed and funded to the teeth.

02:57:49.000 Yeah.

02:57:51.000 And then we're in this place where we're arguing about jokes.

02:57:55.000 Weird, right?

02:57:56.000 Yeah.

02:57:57.000 It is. 0.98

02:57:57.000 Fucking weird. 0.98

02:57:58.000 Because it's easier to argue about jokes than it is to talk about the Middle East and be actually honest about it and go, what Israel is facing is an existential fight for survival and Israel is causing, you know, 0.99

02:58:14.000 there are war crimes happening, whatever.

02:58:16.000 But you can't just let terrorist groups attack a country.

02:58:20.000 You can't let Hezbollah from October the 8th fire rockets into northern Israel.

02:58:27.000 That can't be allowed to continue.

02:58:29.000 It's either going to escalate or you're going to need to de-escalate.

02:58:32.000 Because the one thing with jihadists is, you know, they're committed.

02:58:36.000 You know, they're committed, and they believe in a global Islamic caliphate, and they want to wipe Israel off the map, and then they want to wipe all sovereign nations off the map so they get a global Islamic caliphate, 0.94

02:58:51.000 which is why so many moderate Islamic countries crack down on these people really hard, because they understand the threat from these people. 0.85

02:58:59.000 And then there's the reality that what Israel's doing is also horrific, right? 0.94

02:59:04.000 You see the murdered children and women and you see the videos of people getting blown up with indiscriminate bombing of apartment buildings because someone underneath it is Hamas. 0.99

02:59:15.000 That's fucking terrifying too. 0.97

02:59:17.000 So there's no win because no one can justify that. 0.99

02:59:19.000 You watch that and you see how many innocent people died? 0.99

02:59:22.000 This is fucking insane. 0.99

02:59:23.000 And then there's the argument that, well, but Hamas is using them as human shields. 0.99

02:59:27.000 Like, there's no other way to do this?

02:59:29.000 Than to just bomb where you know civilians are going to be, because bad guys are there also?

02:59:35.000 This is the crazy thing about war, because in the past, I think this was a strategy that would have been employed by almost any powerful nation trying to wipe out an enemy, but we don't...

02:59:48.000 Look, what did we do in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

02:59:51.000 We just indiscriminately killed everybody.

02:59:54.000 Just dropped a nuclear bomb on an entire city.

02:59:59.000 But the question is, what should Israel do instead?

03:00:01.000 That's a good question.

03:00:02.000 That's a real good question.

03:00:02.000 And this is the problem, because I take your point, but the issue is that Hamas have openly stated on numerous occasions that they want to maximize civilian casualties.

03:00:12.000 They're doing it deliberately.

03:00:13.000 So the question is, and we've had pro-Palestine guests on the show, we've had pro-Israel guests on the show, and we've asked them basically trying to get to the bottom of this.

03:00:21.000 Like, how do you do this?

03:00:22.000 I get that what's happening is terrible.

03:00:25.000 It is terrible.

03:00:26.000 No one would dispute that. 0.98

03:00:27.000 No one who has a conscience or a heart would look at what's happening in Gaza and think that's fucking great. 0.97

03:00:33.000 Nobody. 0.90

03:00:34.000 But at the same time, the question ultimately is, after October 7th, what is Israel supposed to do?

03:00:40.000 I think?

03:00:55.000 I'm asking that question.

03:00:57.000 I haven't heard a persuasive answer of what they're supposed to do instead.

03:00:59.000 The problem is when you have very religious, ideologically convinced people that their thing is also about if you die, you go to heaven.

03:01:12.000 Yes.

03:01:12.000 And you're a martyr, and that's a worthy goal.

03:01:17.000 There's not another religion that espouses that.

03:01:20.000 There's another religion that enforces that idea in people.

03:01:23.000 Right. 0.99

03:01:24.000 That scares the shit out of people, that they're okay with people dying.

03:01:29.000 I would love for somebody to have an answer to this, but I just tell you, as you know, I have relatives in Ukraine.

03:01:34.000 What did they do when the war started? 0.98

03:01:36.000 They turned every fucking basement into a bunker to protect civilians. 0.99

03:01:40.000 That is not what Hamas are doing. 1.00

03:01:41.000 They have these tunnels.

03:01:43.000 They don't let civilians in there.

03:01:45.000 That's where the terrorists hang out.

03:01:47.000 So what do you do?

03:01:49.000 What is Israel supposed to do? 0.88

03:01:50.000 Didn't Eric Prince have some sort of an idea to flush out the tunnels?

03:01:53.000 Flush out the tunnels, yeah.

03:01:53.000 It's not a bad idea.

03:01:54.000 Why didn't they implement that?

03:01:56.000 I have no idea.

03:01:57.000 I have no idea.

03:01:58.000 Because that would have kind of killed everybody, wouldn't it?

03:02:01.000 If he really could do that? 0.87

03:02:02.000 Yeah, probably kill hostages too. 0.99

03:02:04.000 Yeah. 0.99

03:02:05.000 Oh, yeah.

03:02:05.000 But they're probably already dead.

03:02:07.000 Or if not, they want to be dead.

03:02:08.000 I mean, imagine an October 7th hostage is still alive.

03:02:13.000 For a year, man.

03:02:14.000 And this is why I'm asking the question, because I just think, what would the UK do?

03:02:18.000 What would America do if you had a rampaging terrorist attack across the border and missiles from the north?

03:02:23.000 It's a very good question.

03:02:24.000 I think it's also from the perspective of people that live in Israel versus the perspective of people that live in America where we haven't been invaded.

03:02:31.000 And the people in Israel who have mandatory military service and they're constantly on threat.

03:02:37.000 I had a buddy of mine who's my kickboxing coach, Shuki, and he's from Israel.

03:02:40.000 And he was always playing the bongo drums.

03:02:43.000 I went to his house for dinner.

03:02:44.000 Everybody's dancing and singing.

03:02:45.000 I was like, why are you guys so happy?

03:02:47.000 Everybody's so joyful.

03:02:48.000 He goes, man, when you live in Israel, any day could be your last.

03:02:51.000 So it's like, just party, have a good time.

03:02:53.000 And they had this idea.

03:02:56.000 And I think if you're an American and you don't feel that threat, it just feels abstract, you're not going to understand the mentality of someone who lives in a place that's surrounded by people who hate them.

03:03:07.000 Yeah.

03:03:08.000 And we had Nick Freitas.

03:03:10.000 Do you know Nick Freitas?

03:03:11.000 No.

03:03:11.000 He's a Green Beret, former Green Beret.

03:03:13.000 He has a YouTube channel, I think, as well.

03:03:15.000 And we asked him about this.

03:03:17.000 He served in Iraq, I think, at two tours.

03:03:21.000 And he talked about this.

03:03:22.000 We've got this interview coming out.

03:03:23.000 And it's like, there is no...

03:03:25.000 There is no way to deal with terrorists who are hiding behind civilians, rather than by going in and dealing with it.

03:03:31.000 There's no other way.

03:03:32.000 I wish there was.

03:03:34.000 I'm genuinely asking the question, what is the other way?

03:03:37.000 And if it is, Israel should use it. 0.98

03:03:39.000 But if there isn't, what are they supposed to do?

03:03:43.000 It's also a crazy subject in America, right?

03:03:46.000 Because there's people on the left that do not want to support Israel, and they think that Palestine is...

03:03:53.000 You know, that Palestine should be free, and they'll say, from the river to the sea, and they chant it out, and they don't exactly even know what they're saying, which means, like, an annihilation of Israel.

03:04:02.000 From the river to the sea, that's literally what that means.

03:04:05.000 But then they're now this sort of, there's like this anti-Semitic thing that's on the left, which didn't exist before.

03:04:14.000 It's just like the anti-Israel, anti-Semitic thing that you never heard before from the left.

03:04:20.000 The left was always, like, super pro-Israel.

03:04:22.000 But it makes sense, doesn't it?

03:04:23.000 Because if you've had a decade of wokeness, the point of wokeness is the people who are successful, the people who have the upper hand, they're the bad guys.

03:04:34.000 Right.

03:04:34.000 Always.

03:04:35.000 Colonizers.

03:04:36.000 Right.

03:04:36.000 So Israel is the bad guy by default.

03:04:38.000 And by the way, that doesn't mean that the situation in Gaza has been perfect.

03:04:44.000 Nobody would argue that, right?

03:04:45.000 But just because a country is succeeding in its military campaign doesn't mean they're the bad guys.

03:04:51.000 The problem with Jews, though, is they're too successful. 1.00

03:04:57.000 The Jews are too successful. 1.00

03:05:01.000 That's the problem with Jews. 1.00

03:05:02.000 They're too successful. 0.92

03:05:03.000 This tiny minority of people who've been oppressed throughout history and yet they're still succeeding.

03:05:09.000 They're making money.

03:05:10.000 They're successful.

03:05:11.000 The country they've built is more powerful than all its neighbors.

03:05:15.000 It's not a good look if you're woke. 1.00

03:05:20.000 How are these fuckers? 1.00

03:05:21.000 That's the argument. 1.00

03:05:22.000 So what's the anti-Semitism on the left that you're talking about?

03:05:25.000 It's the logical conclusion of wokeness, which is why I could never understand why Jews went along with wokeness. 1.00

03:05:34.000 Massively.

03:05:35.000 Massively.

03:05:36.000 Like Jews vote like 60, 70, 75% for the Democrat Party in this country. 1.00

03:05:41.000 That was before October 7th.

03:05:44.000 I think that's, you know, talking to a lot of people.

03:05:45.000 We just had Bill Ackman on the show.

03:05:47.000 That's changed people's minds quite a bit.

03:05:50.000 I'm not saying he was woke before that, but you know what I mean.

03:05:52.000 Yeah.

03:05:53.000 And it's also as well, you talk about the left, but the left in the UK has always had a problem with anti-Semitism, Joe.

03:05:58.000 Really?

03:05:59.000 Yes.

03:05:59.000 There's always been a faction of the left that has looked at Jews and seen financiers, business people, rich people.

03:06:07.000 They control the means of production.

03:06:10.000 They're the ones keeping the ordinary man on the street down.

03:06:14.000 We need to get rid of these financiers, the oligarchs, the bankers, and then we'll be able to liberate people.

03:06:20.000 And there's always been that faction on the UK left.

03:06:26.000 That's what we need to do.

03:06:27.000 And when Jeremy Corbyn was in power, well, wasn't in power, was leader of the Labour Party.

03:06:32.000 I thought I missed the meeting.

03:06:37.000 There was Jewish MPs, Labour MPs, who literally walked out of the party because they were saying that he was not tackling and dealing with anti-Semitism and that this was allowed to run rampant within the Labour Party.

03:06:50.000 Interesting.

03:06:50.000 You know, Thomas Sow was once asked, what do Jews need to do to stop antisemitism?

03:06:54.000 And he paused for a second and went, fail.

03:06:59.000 That guy's so wise.

03:07:00.000 Oh man, he's incredible.

03:07:02.000 Fascinating person.

03:07:03.000 And what kind of intellectual courage to step out on those limbs that he does and say these logical things that are against the, it's, you know, heretic.

03:07:12.000 Yeah.

03:07:13.000 I'm such a great admirer of his.

03:07:15.000 He's such an interesting writer.

03:07:17.000 He's got so many counter-intuitive ideas.

03:07:19.000 Yeah.

03:07:20.000 Super informative.

03:07:21.000 He's great in interviews, too.

03:07:22.000 Yeah.

03:07:22.000 What if he still does them?

03:07:24.000 I think he's very old now.

03:07:26.000 Yeah.

03:07:26.000 I think we tried to get him when we nearly had a phone interview with him, but it didn't quite happen.

03:07:30.000 But I'd still love to make that happen.

03:07:32.000 Yeah.

03:07:32.000 But he's getting old, unfortunately.

03:07:34.000 I've seen some of the Noam Chomsky interviews now.

03:07:36.000 You're like, yo.

03:07:37.000 Stop doing those.

03:07:40.000 I mean, when he came out, he was hardline on the vaccine.

03:07:44.000 Yeah, like, have you done any research at all?

03:07:46.000 Yeah.

03:07:47.000 But I think that's an old person thing. 0.95

03:07:49.000 I think old people get really scared of diseases. 0.93

03:07:52.000 Yeah.

03:07:52.000 Yeah, and they've got every right to be scared of diseases because they're far more vulnerable to them.

03:07:56.000 Exactly.

03:07:56.000 So they're thinking of something that can kill you, whereas the young people are thinking, oh, it's going to be inconvenient.

03:08:01.000 Yeah.

03:08:01.000 And also, you know much better than either of us, every great champion has to retire at some point, right?

03:08:07.000 Yes.

03:08:08.000 Yeah. 1.00

03:08:08.000 Your shit doesn't work right anymore, including your brain. 1.00

03:08:12.000 It's gonna come a point in time where you're not thinking well, you're not very logical, and you're not objective. 1.00

03:08:17.000 But the thing that made you a champion is the thing that's gonna make you not want to retire.

03:08:21.000 Yep, that's what fighters, for sure.

03:08:23.000 That's why they fight way past their prime and it gets really sad.

03:08:27.000 They never want to let it go.

03:08:28.000 Yeah.

03:08:29.000 Because why would you?

03:08:30.000 Why would you want to let it go?

03:08:31.000 Right, especially if that's what you do.

03:08:32.000 Imagine if what you do relies on a very brief window of power that you have physically, where your hormones are firing.

03:08:41.000 You don't have that much time.

03:08:43.000 And then when it slips away, you still feel like you're you, but you just can't move.

03:08:48.000 I remember when watching Tyson Fury.

03:08:51.000 I can't remember who he fought.

03:08:52.000 He fought in London.

03:08:54.000 And Constance and I were talking about it because we were going, oh, is he going to retire?

03:08:57.000 He said he's going to retire.

03:08:58.000 And then he entered the stadium on a gold throne carried by people. 0.98

03:09:03.000 I'm like, bro, he ain't going to fucking retire anytime soon, man. 0.87

03:09:07.000 He's fighting Usyk again. 0.99

03:09:09.000 Oh, man.

03:09:09.000 That's a tough fight.

03:09:10.000 Yeah.

03:09:11.000 That Usyk guy is tough.

03:09:13.000 He's so talented.

03:09:14.000 He's so small for a heavyweight, too.

03:09:17.000 He's nonstop movement and his footwork and everything, it's so different than anybody else.

03:09:22.000 Joshua didn't know what to do with him.

03:09:24.000 He's like, where is this guy gonna be when I'm throwing punches?

03:09:28.000 He was moving all over the place.

03:09:30.000 Yeah, it's so different.

03:09:31.000 It's so different.

03:09:33.000 I remember when I was watching the Joshua Usyk fight, it made me realize the importance of technique.

03:09:38.000 Because Joshua is a real physical specimen.

03:09:41.000 And has great technique too.

03:09:42.000 Yeah, but he doesn't have that elite level of technique that Usyk had.

03:09:46.000 And you could see the combinations, the way he was throwing punches.

03:09:49.000 He just didn't have an answer to it because he's never been exposed to that level of technique.

03:09:54.000 Well, you know what it is?

03:09:54.000 He's a heavyweight and the heavyweights were never really that good in terms of that kind of technique.

03:10:00.000 It's like you need it at like middleweight and light heavyweight because everyone's super talented and technical.

03:10:06.000 When you get up to the heavyweight division, guys tend, it tends to be like a lower bar, you know, and so when you have an elite athlete like Joshua who's like fast and knockout power, he can excel without having the kind of technique that a guy like Lomachenko and Usyk were trained by the same guy.

03:10:22.000 They were both trained by Lomachenko's father.

03:10:24.000 So they both have extreme technique.

03:10:27.000 And then you have Bival and Bitterbeef that just fought.

03:10:31.000 Same thing.

03:10:32.000 Both like super Soviet-style boxing.

03:10:35.000 And you go, whoa, this is technique.

03:10:38.000 Like really, really high-level technique.

03:10:40.000 But it's rare that someone with that kind of technique gets into the heavyweight division.

03:10:45.000 And that's why Fury is just a magnificent fighter.

03:10:48.000 Because Fury is from a gypsy background. 1.00

03:10:52.000 And those boys are taught to fight at the age of three, four years old.

03:10:55.000 And it's in their culture, they all fight, they all trained as boxers.

03:10:59.000 And telling you as someone who has broken up fights with gypsy kids when I used to teach them, they are taught never to back down. 1.00

03:11:06.000 You never back down.

03:11:07.000 You always go for it until the very end.

03:11:10.000 I remember when I was watching the Fury, the Wilder fight, and I remember someone saying to me, like, he's knocked down.

03:11:18.000 He ain't getting up.

03:11:19.000 I'm like, mate, trust me.

03:11:20.000 He's going to get up.

03:11:21.000 He's going to get up.

03:11:22.000 Yeah, but that's why Fury's a force of nature.

03:11:25.000 It's that technique he has, which has been instilled in him from basically the moment he could walk.

03:11:30.000 Technique and huge.

03:11:31.000 And if you watch the Usyk fight, he was touching Usyk up in the beginning of the fight.

03:11:35.000 I mean, that reach and that jab, the accuracy that he has, he was doing really well in that fight until he started to slow down a little bit, and Usyk wound up just catching him.

03:11:45.000 Yeah, bro.

03:11:46.000 It's an exciting moment in UFC as well.

03:11:48.000 The one that would just happen. 1.00

03:11:49.000 Chimaya, fuck me. 1.00

03:11:50.000 Bro, he's terrifying. 1.00

03:11:52.000 He does it to everybody.

03:11:53.000 Everybody he gets a hold of, he just ragdolls. 1.00

03:11:55.000 Even like really elite wrestlers.

03:11:57.000 It's very extraordinary.

03:11:58.000 His talent is undeniable.

03:12:01.000 And Robert Whittaker, seeing him breaking Robert Whittaker's jaw just by squeezing him across his face.

03:12:06.000 Apparently Robert Whittaker had a broken jaw when he was a child, and it worked on, but it's always been vulnerable.

03:12:13.000 His front teeth had been pushed in before.

03:12:15.000 In the Dracus Duplessis fight, he had a problem with it as well, apparently.

03:12:18.000 But this was different.

03:12:19.000 Because this was like Chemayev got the blade of his forearm across the jaw and it was like just crushing those teeth and it goes into his mouth. 0.77

03:12:28.000 You saw the photo?

03:12:29.000 Yeah.

03:12:29.000 Yeah man.

03:12:31.000 Do you think if that doesn't happen Whitaker stands up?

03:12:35.000 Who knows?

03:12:36.000 I mean Chemayev was smothering him.

03:12:38.000 Whitaker looked exhausted.

03:12:39.000 It was very early in the fight, too.

03:12:41.000 Yep, first round.

03:12:42.000 I mean, it's just the amount of technique that Hamzat has and the intensity of his attack is unlike anybody else. 0.95

03:12:50.000 He's so talented.

03:12:51.000 He's so good at grappling. 0.99

03:12:53.000 And his stand-up is fucking dangerous, too. 0.96

03:12:56.000 And I think he's way better at 185. I really do. 0.99

03:12:58.000 I think at 170 he was killing himself to make that weight.

03:13:01.000 And now that you see him at 185, I think he has more energy.

03:13:05.000 And he's more than big enough for those guys.

03:13:07.000 He's huge.

03:13:08.000 He's a big guy.

03:13:09.000 He's good, man. 0.97

03:13:10.000 He's really fucking good. 0.98

03:13:11.000 But Ilya Teporia, that was the most shocking. 0.99

03:13:13.000 It says that Robert only landed two strikes.

03:13:16.000 Wow!

03:13:16.000 That's crazy.

03:13:17.000 I don't even know what he hit him with. 0.66

03:13:20.000 Might have hit him with a leg kick. 0.99

03:13:21.000 I don't remember.

03:13:22.000 I don't remember.

03:13:23.000 I just remember Hamzat shooting.

03:13:24.000 Two leg kicks.

03:13:25.000 Yeah, there it is.

03:13:26.000 Two leg kicks. 0.99

03:13:27.000 So Hamzat just shot in on him and just started beating the fuck out of him. 0.98

03:13:32.000 It was so relentless and overwhelming. 0.75

03:13:34.000 And when Robert got up once, Hamzat dove on him again and had him down again in a second.

03:13:39.000 So it's demoralizing.

03:13:40.000 Yeah.

03:13:41.000 Reminded me of Khabib as well, where you get up, you get straight back down, and then you just run out of energy, right?

03:13:46.000 Maybe even more intense, because maybe even more dominant.

03:13:50.000 To do that to Whitaker, like that, a guy who's a world champion, like even the Conor fight, it took a while before he overwhelmed him, you know? 0.99

03:13:59.000 It took a while before he was just beating Conor's ass. 0.98

03:14:02.000 The beginning of the fight is more competitive. 0.99

03:14:05.000 This was just an overwhelming victory.

03:14:10.000 Hamzat just charged in, dove in, got him down, and mauled him. 0.91

03:14:14.000 Mauled him until he broke his face.

03:14:17.000 Do you think it's different with Duplessis?

03:14:19.000 I don't know.

03:14:19.000 Because he can wrestle.

03:14:20.000 He can wrestle.

03:14:21.000 He's got very good jujitsu. 0.98

03:14:22.000 He hits fucking hard, and he's a big, durable dude. 0.94

03:14:26.000 But I don't know if he's going to be able to wrestle with that guy. 0.99

03:14:29.000 Like, I don't know, man.

03:14:30.000 The Hamzat skill is so high level, it makes me wonder. 0.96

03:14:35.000 Some guys, like, you see it in jujitsu.

03:14:37.000 There's some guys that look really good until they fight somebody who's really, really good.

03:14:41.000 And then they get manhandled.

03:14:42.000 You know, it's like everybody looks good until they face Gordon Ryan.

03:14:45.000 Like, Gordon Ryan can do that to anybody.

03:14:47.000 Like, is Hamza at that level?

03:14:49.000 Well, it kind of appears that he is.

03:14:51.000 It appears that he's, in terms of, like, the grappling that he possesses, seems magnitudes greater than anybody else in his division.

03:14:59.000 But it's that skill thing that we talk about.

03:15:01.000 You can have athleticism, you can have strength, but when you come up against someone whose skill is far superior to yours, eventually you're going to burn out because there's only a fine amount of strength and power that you have got.

03:15:16.000 And eventually, if you're fighting somebody who can match you physically but also has the skill on top of it, I mean, you're kind of done, really, unless you get lucky with a punch.

03:15:25.000 I guess counter-argument might be, and you'll correct me, Joe, Gilbert Burns fight, I mean, he won, but he was close.

03:15:33.000 It was very close.

03:15:34.000 I think it's at 170. I don't think he's the same guy at 170. I also think Gilbert is tough as fuck.

03:15:39.000 And at that point in time, Gilbert had, he challenged Usman for the title and lost, but then came back and was one of the best 170-pounders in the world. 0.98

03:15:49.000 It was a big step up in competition that I don't think Hamza had faced before.

03:15:53.000 And Gilbert is a world champion in jiu-jitsu.

03:15:56.000 He's a very, very, very good grappler.

03:15:59.000 So there's a difference there.

03:16:00.000 When you get Gilbert to the ground, it's not that simple.

03:16:02.000 You're fighting off arm bars and triangles and guillotines, and he's back up to his feet.

03:16:07.000 There was a lot of wild scrambles.

03:16:08.000 It was just... 0.99

03:16:10.000 Gilbert's a little older now, but back then he was really in his prime or close to it, and he's just that fucking good. 0.96

03:16:16.000 That's why that fight was so close. 0.94

03:16:18.000 Gilbert, especially in that fight, he was that good.

03:16:21.000 I mean, it was a war.

03:16:22.000 He dropped Chemayev, he cracked him with a right hand, but Chemayev, even when he got dropped, he dove in and took him down. 0.98

03:16:27.000 He's fucking good. 0.97

03:16:28.000 Good, man. 0.99

03:16:29.000 He's good.

03:16:30.000 What he did to Whittaker was just...

03:16:32.000 Nobody thought that was going to happen.

03:16:33.000 That was crazy.

03:16:34.000 That was scary.

03:16:35.000 Yeah.

03:16:35.000 That was scary.

03:16:36.000 And then what Ilya did to Max is even scarier, too.

03:16:38.000 Oh, wow!

03:16:39.000 Because I saw Max as being totally in control of that entire fight.

03:16:44.000 I was like, he's got it tactically.

03:16:47.000 He's got him.

03:16:48.000 He's going to win this.

03:16:49.000 I wouldn't have said that.

03:16:50.000 I wouldn't have said that.

03:16:51.000 I would have said there's always danger with Taporia. 1.00

03:16:53.000 He's fucking so dangerous. 0.99

03:16:55.000 When he hits you, it's different, especially with his hands. 1.00

03:16:58.000 His fucking boxing is so high level. 0.99

03:17:01.000 And there's shots that he was landing that would thud, and you could see it in Max's face. 0.99

03:17:06.000 He caught him with a bunch of good shots before that.

03:17:08.000 But Max was landing a lot of stuff, too.

03:17:11.000 But he was forced into these exchanges.

03:17:13.000 And when you're forced into these exchanges, Ilya has superior technique.

03:17:16.000 His punches come straight down the pipe.

03:17:19.000 His hooks are perfect.

03:17:20.000 His distance management is perfect.

03:17:22.000 He's super aggressive.

03:17:24.000 And the consequences of getting hit by him are so grave.

03:17:28.000 That left hook he caught Max with, oh my goodness.

03:17:31.000 Just spun his head around.

03:17:33.000 And you rarely see, I mean, in the UFC, you see obviously people who are multi-disciplined, but it's rare that you see someone who's so pure with the way they hit.

03:17:43.000 I was watching him going, this guy looks like a boxer the way that he hits.

03:17:47.000 But he's that way with everything.

03:17:48.000 He's that way with his grappling, he's that way with his submissions. 0.97

03:17:51.000 He's just really, really fucking good. 0.94

03:17:54.000 And he's the new guard, right? 0.97

03:17:56.000 Every generation comes up with a new guy who's a new high-water mark of technique.

03:18:02.000 That's where Ilya is.

03:18:03.000 So who's going to challenge him now, do you think?

03:18:05.000 Volkanovski.

03:18:06.000 They're going to have a rematch.

03:18:07.000 I think Volkanovski taking that fight three months after getting head kicked into a KO, that's kind of crazy to do.

03:18:14.000 Three or four months later, he's fighting Ilya Toporia, the most dangerous puncher he's ever faced.

03:18:19.000 I think that was crazy.

03:18:21.000 And I think now he's had a long time to recover. 0.99

03:18:24.000 But it's always going to be in his head that that guy just knocked me the fuck out. 0.93

03:18:28.000 And look, that's the kind of thing that drives a guy like Volkanovski, because he's such a warrior.

03:18:33.000 He doesn't shy away from the most difficult challenges.

03:18:36.000 Because if he did, he could have taken some fights with some up-and-coming contenders.

03:18:39.000 He could have said, there's probably someone who wants to challenge him.

03:18:43.000 There's some guy he thinks he could definitely beat.

03:18:44.000 Let me just get this fight under my belt.

03:18:47.000 And then, you know, but he's no.

03:18:48.000 He wants to go right back in there and fight for the title again.

03:18:51.000 And am I right in thinking there it's power versus speed?

03:18:55.000 Because Volkanovski is so fast.

03:18:57.000 So quick.

03:18:58.000 Ilya's fast too, man.

03:18:59.000 There's no difference in speed.

03:19:01.000 Really?

03:19:02.000 No, I don't think so.

03:19:03.000 Oh, wow.

03:19:03.000 I don't think there's...

03:19:04.000 There's a little bit of difference when you're loading up.

03:19:05.000 You're not going to hit as fast.

03:19:07.000 You know, if you're just trying to, like, touch someone, you can touch them much faster. 0.99

03:19:11.000 But Illy is fast as fuck. 1.00

03:19:13.000 He's not slow at all. 0.99

03:19:14.000 He doesn't have any disadvantages.

03:19:16.000 He doesn't have any weaknesses, man.

03:19:19.000 That's why I say he's the new high-water mark.

03:19:21.000 There's people that are thinking maybe he's the best pound-for-pound fighter alive.

03:19:25.000 There's a lot of discussion about that online.

03:19:28.000 A little premature, especially when Jon Jones is still out there and there's other elite guys that are still out there, but Islam Makachev is another one. 0.90

03:19:37.000 It's a real argument that he's the best pound-for-pound guy alive, but it's fucking close.

03:19:41.000 Ilya, he might be the best.

03:19:43.000 And if you think about Volkanovski, a fire is never the same after they've been knocked out, particularly a blow like that.

03:19:48.000 Especially twice in a couple of months' time, four months' time.

03:19:52.000 So there's already an injury there.

03:19:53.000 There's already a propensity to get knocked out.

03:19:56.000 There's a weakness.

03:19:57.000 And then you're going up against a fighter with that power.

03:20:01.000 You think all he's going to need to do is just connect, and he may be Sparco again.

03:20:05.000 Who knows?

03:20:06.000 I mean, I don't know what kind of strategy Volkanovski will employ.

03:20:09.000 I don't know if they'll try to do something different.

03:20:11.000 City kickboxing, the place that he trains at, is very, very, very high level.

03:20:14.000 And those guys always have excellent game plans.

03:20:17.000 So maybe there's something they saw that Volkanovski...

03:20:19.000 I think?

03:20:38.000 So now he gets knocked out again by Ilya.

03:20:40.000 Now he's had a long time to rest.

03:20:42.000 And that's what you really need if you've been knocked out like that.

03:20:45.000 You need treatments.

03:20:46.000 There's like concussion protocols.

03:20:48.000 There's a bunch of different things that people can do to help their brain health.

03:20:51.000 But like when Manny Pacquiao got knocked out by Juan Manuel Marquez, Freddie Roach didn't let him fight for a year.

03:20:58.000 He said, no, you've got to do anything for one year.

03:21:00.000 Nothing.

03:21:01.000 Nothing.

03:21:01.000 I don't want you doing anything.

03:21:02.000 You can train.

03:21:03.000 That's it.

03:21:03.000 Work out.

03:21:04.000 Hit the bag.

03:21:04.000 No fights.

03:21:06.000 I was just going to say, it's a really interesting moment because UFC is very much in the ascendancy when compared to boxing.

03:21:15.000 But you've looked at all this Saudi money that is being pumped into boxing now.

03:21:20.000 And, you know, because previously, you know, the thing that we're in boxing, as we all know, is promoters, you know, teams not wanting to put their great fighter against their other great fighter because they want to protect their asset.

03:21:32.000 I'm thinking now, you look at kind of the Saudis, they're just going to flood, they're flooding it with money. 1.00

03:21:36.000 Oh, yeah.

03:21:37.000 So are we actually going to see interesting fights again?

03:21:41.000 Because at the moment...

03:21:42.000 You're starting to see it happen more and more in the heavyweight division.

03:21:45.000 Yeah, you're going to see it.

03:21:46.000 The Saudis are doing a great service in that regard, giving people fights they want to see. 1.00

03:21:51.000 Because there's a lot of interesting fights that can be made.

03:21:54.000 If you can get Benavidez versus Canelo, for instance.

03:21:57.000 That is a fight that everybody wants to see at 168. That's a fascinating fight.

03:22:02.000 Benavidez at 168 is a monster.

03:22:04.000 And Canelo is the king.

03:22:05.000 So it's like that would be an amazing fight.

03:22:08.000 If they could get them to do that, that would be awesome.

03:22:11.000 They might fight at 175. Who knows?

03:22:12.000 But if they can do that, if the Saudis can come up with enough money, and the other one is Terrence Crawford.

03:22:17.000 Terrence Crawford versus Canelo. 0.90

03:22:18.000 That's fucking interesting. 0.99

03:22:20.000 That's really interesting. 0.99

03:22:21.000 If they can pay them enough money to get them to do it.

03:22:24.000 Because if they can pay enough money, then what you have is a real competitor to the UFC. Because at the moment, I like watching UFC, but I'm a boxing guy.

03:22:33.000 I love it.

03:22:34.000 That's how I was raised.

03:22:36.000 We always have an argument about it, but it's undeniable that UFC is more entertaining because they're the fights that you want to see.

03:22:43.000 But it's not just that.

03:22:43.000 This is what I was going to ask you, Jay.

03:22:45.000 It's not just about the headline fight.

03:22:46.000 The difference between the UFC and boxing is if you're watching UFC, you're going to see five great fights.

03:22:53.000 Right.

03:22:54.000 Minimum.

03:22:55.000 Right.

03:22:55.000 On a card.

03:22:56.000 Right.

03:22:56.000 With boxing, no one watches the undercard.

03:22:59.000 Well, the Saudi's doing a much better job of that.

03:23:01.000 Riyadh season's done a fantastic job of putting compelling undercard fights.

03:23:05.000 And that is also because they're throwing that money around.

03:23:08.000 You know, like the Bival better be a fight.

03:23:12.000 Riyadh season put that on.

03:23:14.000 That was a fight that a lot of people didn't know if it was ever going to happen.

03:23:17.000 Because both guys are undefeated.

03:23:19.000 Both guys are like...

03:23:21.000 World champions.

03:23:22.000 You can make a lot of money just beating up other guys.

03:23:24.000 You don't have to lose your O. You don't have to have these two guys go to war like this.

03:23:28.000 And all of a sudden, it's made boxing interesting.

03:23:31.000 Yep.

03:23:31.000 Because lots of people are talking about sports washing, and obviously that's a different conversation.

03:23:35.000 But finally now, I'm seeing fights, and I'm like, I want to watch this fight.

03:23:39.000 Yes, yes, it is.

03:23:40.000 It's a fun time to be a sports fan.

03:23:46.000 It's probably one of the greatest moments ever for combat sports, like right now.

03:23:50.000 Feels like it.

03:23:51.000 It has to be with the UFC, because the UFC has kind of redefined what combat sports are, and it's the greatest time ever for the UFC. And then at the same time, boxing is still thriving.

03:24:00.000 And it's becoming exciting because you're seeing great fights.

03:24:04.000 And for people like us who grew up and saw the great fighters of the 80s and the 90s, all of a sudden we see this happening again and we're just like, ah, actually I remember why I fell in love with this sport.

03:24:17.000 How about Anthony Joshua and Dubois?

03:24:21.000 Dubois is coming into his own, man.

03:24:22.000 That's what that is.

03:24:23.000 He's only like 27, right?

03:24:25.000 Yeah.

03:24:26.000 He's coming into his own. 0.99

03:24:27.000 That guy is fucking scary. 1.00

03:24:29.000 He's dangerous. 1.00

03:24:30.000 And you know, the interesting thing was, is that at least the press in the UK, they didn't give him a hope.

03:24:35.000 Everybody was talking about, you know, like when Joshua gets Dubois out of the way, then we can move on to the next fight.

03:24:41.000 And this is a fight that we want to see.

03:24:43.000 It seems like Joshua believed that going into that fight.

03:24:47.000 It seems like he believed that he was just going to dominate him.

03:24:49.000 Yeah, and he just got ruthlessly exposed.

03:24:52.000 The power of Dubois.

03:24:54.000 I remember, I bought into it.

03:24:56.000 I was like, okay, so I'll watch it, but this is going to be a stepping stone match.

03:25:00.000 It wasn't a stepping stone.

03:25:01.000 Aggression, too.

03:25:02.000 Man, he was so aggressive.

03:25:04.000 He was just in the pocket constantly, just forcing Joshua to go to war.

03:25:08.000 It was wild.

03:25:09.000 Yeah, and it rapidly became apparent that Joshua couldn't match him.

03:25:13.000 He just couldn't go to war with him.

03:25:14.000 And at the end, this showed what the fight was like.

03:25:17.000 Everybody was like, look, to Joshua, I think you're done.

03:25:21.000 And nobody predicted that.

03:25:23.000 Isn't that crazy?

03:25:23.000 Right after he knocks out Francis Ngannou and everyone's like, you're back.

03:25:26.000 Yeah.

03:25:27.000 You know?

03:25:28.000 I mean, he flattened Francis Ngannou and everyone's like, oh, Joshua's back.

03:25:31.000 Look how good he looked. 1.00

03:25:33.000 Ruthless fucking game, man. 1.00

03:25:35.000 You mentioned in Ghana. 1.00

03:25:36.000 I'm so gutted.

03:25:37.000 I just heard Dana White say that that fight with Jon Jones is never going to happen. 0.85

03:25:41.000 I'm so gutted about that, man.

03:25:42.000 Yeah, I'm going to stay out of that one.

03:25:45.000 I love Francis.

03:25:46.000 I love Dana.

03:25:47.000 I don't get it.

03:25:48.000 I don't know what happened between those two.

03:25:49.000 They apparently have some sort of a personal thing with each other.

03:25:52.000 Dana says he's not a good guy.

03:25:54.000 Every interaction I've ever had with him, he's a great guy.

03:25:59.000 I really love talking to him.

03:26:00.000 I've had him on the podcast a couple of times.

03:26:02.000 His story about being a child working in a sand mine is crazy.

03:26:07.000 His story about making his way from Cameroon all the way to the coast and then getting sent back to the Sahara Desert like six times.

03:26:17.000 It's a crazy story.

03:26:20.000 You know, being homeless in France and walking into a gym and all of a sudden becoming the UFC heavyweight champion of the world.

03:26:26.000 It's nuts!

03:26:27.000 It's a crazy story.

03:26:28.000 It's a literal story out of a movie.

03:26:31.000 You know, I don't know what their beef is.

03:26:34.000 No, I don't want to get involved in any beef. 0.99

03:26:36.000 I'm just saying that's a great fucking fight. 0.98

03:26:38.000 Yeah, I wish he fought Jon Jones. 0.99

03:26:40.000 But I'm interested in Jon Jones versus Stipe.

03:26:43.000 Especially if Stipe is healthy.

03:26:45.000 I'm very interested in that.

03:26:46.000 I in no way wish to be disrespectful, but just a layman perspective, a lot of people I have heard saying Stipe is too old now.

03:26:55.000 We don't know.

03:26:56.000 He hasn't fought since he got knocked out by Francis. 0.97

03:26:58.000 And Francis looked fucking unbelievable in that fight. 1.00

03:27:02.000 He was patient and calculated, and his power is just so extraordinary that if he just catches you a couple of times, you're fucked. 1.00

03:27:08.000 I mean, Francis hit so hard. 0.96

03:27:10.000 And so him knocking out Stipe was not as much as, like, Stipe doesn't have it anymore.

03:27:15.000 It was that Francis is that good, that big, that scary, a natural 265-pound knockout machine.

03:27:23.000 Yeah, but Jon Jones, man, come on.

03:27:25.000 Yeah, Jon Jones is the highest fight IQ of all time next to Mighty Mouse. 1.00

03:27:29.000 Like, fuck, man. 1.00

03:27:31.000 He finds a way to win, you know? 1.00

03:27:33.000 And he's an unbelievable grappler.

03:27:35.000 That's why that would be such a good fight.

03:27:36.000 His super high fight IQ, use of distance, better than anybody.

03:27:41.000 And then this ability to know how to win.

03:27:44.000 And can he win versus that guy?

03:27:46.000 Because if you get clipped once, just once, what he did to Cain Velasquez, just inside, caught him with an uppercut, you see Cain's just lights go out.

03:27:54.000 Like, Cain can take a shot, man.

03:27:57.000 That guy's, his power is different.

03:27:59.000 It's just extraordinary.

03:28:02.000 But I think you hit the nail on the head.

03:28:04.000 He knows how to win.

03:28:05.000 And you see it with all great athletes and teams.

03:28:09.000 Even if they're not doing well, even if they're not fighting well, even if they're not playing well, they have that extra gear that they can go into.

03:28:15.000 And then suddenly you go, how did he do that?

03:28:18.000 How did they do that?

03:28:19.000 They were on the ropes.

03:28:20.000 Makes people different and it probably drives you crazy. 0.99

03:28:24.000 They say Michael Jordan was out of his fucking mind when he was at his best. 0.99

03:28:28.000 Of course. 0.99

03:28:29.000 But, you know, Johns has looked, you know, I wouldn't say beatable, but there are a couple of guys that pushed him.

03:28:35.000 Two or three.

03:28:36.000 He was playing with his food.

03:28:38.000 It's mostly John was bored.

03:28:40.000 He was so dominant that he would not train.

03:28:42.000 You know, when he fought Alexander Gustafson, they said he barely trained at all. 0.96

03:28:46.000 Still beat him in the stretch and then the rematch wanted to prove a point trained really hard and beat the shit out of Gustafson, you know?

03:28:54.000 With John it's a lot of it is he's so much better than everybody else like when he's really threatened like with Cormier Then you see how good he really is like when he knocked out Cormier with that head kick and that's when you see how good he is when he's when he's pushed Yeah, when you see John Jones with a real challenge in front of him and Hopefully that's what the John Jones will see with Stipe Yeah,

03:29:13.000 let's hope Stipe pushes him Listen, gentlemen, it's always a pleasure.

03:29:17.000 We just did, like, forever.

03:29:18.000 Five o'clock here.

03:29:19.000 It's a long-ass podcast.

03:29:21.000 But always a pleasure talking to you guys, man.

03:29:23.000 Always a lot of fun.

03:29:24.000 Appreciate you.

03:29:25.000 Appreciate you.

03:29:26.000 Thank you, John.

03:29:26.000 Tell everybody how to see your show.

03:29:28.000 We're on YouTube, Trigonometry.

03:29:30.000 We both have a substack now as well.

03:29:32.000 So check those out, too.

03:29:33.000 Look at you.

03:29:34.000 Fancy.

03:29:35.000 Fancy journalists.

03:29:38.000 All right.

03:29:39.000 Thank you.

03:29:40.000 Appreciate you, brother.

03:29:41.000 Bye, buddy.

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 30, 2024

Joe Rogan Experience #2220 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

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Summary

Transcript