The Joe Rogan Experience - November 02, 2024


Joe Rogan Experience #2222 - John Fetterman

Topics
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Hosted by
Joe Rogan
Guests
John Fetterman
Mentioned
Donald Trump John Fetterman Hillary Clinton George W. Bush Hunter Biden Carl JD Vance Bernie Nick Joe Rogan Podcast Walter Reed Elon Musk Diebold Austin Nippon Obama White Oak Pastures David McCormick Citizens United Katie McGinty and 21 more
Joe Rogan Experience #2221 - JD Vance Joe Rogan Experience #2223 - Elon Musk

Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 7 minutes

Words per minute

161.73

Word count

20,583

Sentence count

1,710

Harmful content

Misogyny

9

sentences flagged

Toxicity

75

sentences flagged

Hate speech

26

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Sen. Carl W. Kennedy (D-Massachusetts) joins the show to talk about a variety of topics, including how he got started in politics, his love of the band Metallica, and why he doesn t wear suits in public. He also talks about what it's like to have a stroke, and how it affects his ability to see and hear. And he explains why he wears eyeglasses in public, which is pretty cool, because he doesn't have much of an understanding of what it means to be an intellectual. And he's not the only one with a hard-to-hear hearing problem. Joe also explains how he's been able to use an iPad to see better and hear better, and explains why it's a good thing he can't see better than he can hear. And, of course, he talks about his love for Metallica and the band's new album "Losing It All." Joe Rogan is a standup comic, comedian, podcaster, writer, and podcaster. He's also the host of the podcast and hosts the show on Comedy Central's Comedy Bang! and is a regular contributor on Comedy Central s as well as . and , and , is a podcaster and host of , which is a podcast that does standup comedy. and has a podcast called in which he also hosts a live-up comedy show called The Joe Rogans Experience . What's the worst thing you can do? or that you can tell me what's going on in your head? and what s going on your brain is going to be the most important thing you should be listening to right now? What s going to make you want to do in the next episode of Comedy Bang on it? And what s your favorite thing you're going to do with your brain? or what s the best thing you re going to listen to in your brain right now and what you should do with that s your brain's hearing aid or your brain thinks you're listening to? Is that a question you're not getting any better than that right now, or are you listening to it right, and what's your brain can do right, right, or you're doing it right? is that right, you should listen to this right, are you doing it, or do you're watching it?

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Joe Rogan Experience" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!
00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:06.000 Train by day!
00:00:07.000 Joe Rogan Podcast by night!
00:00:08.000 All day!
00:00:12.000 Alright, we're rolling.
00:00:13.000 What's happening?
00:00:14.000 Nice to meet you.
00:00:15.000 Oh, hey man.
00:00:15.000 It's awesome to be here, man.
00:00:16.000 Really.
00:00:17.000 Like, I gotta say hi to my son.
00:00:19.000 He's just so thrilled.
00:00:20.000 He's like, you know, he's 15 and he literally freaked out.
00:00:22.000 Like, oh my god, and all of his friends are gonna definitely be watching too.
00:00:26.000 What's his name?
00:00:26.000 What's his name?
00:00:27.000 Carl with a K. And I met a Carl in the lobby, but it's a C. That's not a human. 1.00
00:00:34.000 A non-human Carl.
00:00:35.000 Yeah.
00:00:35.000 Well, what's up, human Carl?
00:00:38.000 So, first of all, are you the only guy that figured out that you don't have to wear suits when you're a senator?
00:00:45.000 Yeah, no, it's...
00:00:46.000 I'm sorry, what was that?
00:00:48.000 I said, are you the only guy that figured out that you don't have to wear suits as a senator?
00:00:54.000 Oh, okay.
00:00:55.000 Yeah, no, I know it seems strange, but it's like, I mean, I'm a bigger guy, and I don't really can't afford custom anyway, and I hate... 0.99
00:01:06.000 I'm claustrophobic, and I hate them being in that kind of shit, and I've always dressed like shit, and... 0.99
00:01:15.000 And I know. 1.00
00:01:16.000 And then that whole thing kind of got away of us.
00:01:20.000 People assumed that there was a dress code issue there. 0.99
00:01:23.000 And I'm like, no, I wasn't behind that. 0.97
00:01:25.000 But, of course, everybody pointed at the dude that dresses like a slob. 1.00
00:01:30.000 And then the whole nation just had like a meltdown like, oh my god, the Senate's on fire because I dress like a slob. 0.85
00:01:37.000 But my life is just much better in D.C. that unless that I'm going to be on the floor, that I'm not going to be – you're never going to see me in a suit.
00:01:46.000 And I think that's a more authentic kind of way that I live.
00:01:50.000 And I don't judge anybody on how they dress or those things.
00:01:54.000 I just dress this way.
00:01:56.000 And there's also practical issues as well, too. 0.98
00:01:58.000 Like, I have chopstick legs, and I have no ass, and I can't keep pants up. 0.99
00:02:03.000 You know? 1.00
00:02:05.000 And hoodies, it's like I don't have to iron that shit. 0.94
00:02:08.000 You know, so it's just like easy, it's comfort, and it's like, I just feel like that's, I mean, and if somebody judge me, and people have said that, but it's like I'd rather have somebody know, and I promise you, a lot of people and dudes, especially in western Pennsylvania, 0.94
00:02:25.000 love to wear suits all year, I mean, excuse me, shorts all year, and dress like that, but to me it's about comfort and practical.
00:02:34.000 Well, I mean, it makes sense.
00:02:36.000 The whole dress code thing of wearing suits and you're more serious because you have certain clothing on, it seems pretty silly.
00:02:46.000 Sorry, what's that?
00:02:48.000 So let's tell everybody what's going on with your iPad.
00:02:52.000 So because you had a stroke, you have difficulty.
00:02:56.000 Do you have difficulty hearing?
00:02:58.000 Well, no, I can hear just perfectly right now.
00:03:04.000 But there's just the one kind of a lingering issue.
00:03:07.000 There's a lingering issue.
00:03:08.000 And sometimes I lose just a couple steps on time.
00:03:11.000 And then now, after that, that's the only thing.
00:03:14.000 And thankfully, the stroke never touched my intellect, thanks.
00:03:18.000 But the stroke nearly killed me.
00:03:20.000 And again, I don't...
00:03:22.000 But I use captioning in situations just like this, in interviews.
00:03:27.000 So that's why I can really make sure exactly what's being said.
00:03:31.000 And then I can able to just participate.
00:03:34.000 If somebody wears the glasses, it doesn't mean that they're illiterate.
00:03:37.000 It just means that's a tool that allows them to participate or drive or those things.
00:03:41.000 And it's that same thing.
00:03:42.000 And a lot of people across America use captioning to watch movies and TV. And that's really no different than that.
00:03:49.000 So it doesn't affect your intellect, but it does affect your hearing?
00:03:53.000 Is that what's going on?
00:03:55.000 No, I can hear and I can listen to music.
00:03:58.000 The difference with music, for example, is that as long as there's muscle memory, I can remember all those kinds of music things.
00:04:06.000 But it seems unlikely at this point that there are not going to be any kind of new favorites emerging like that.
00:04:13.000 So you essentially only can listen to the same old music forever?
00:04:16.000 Yeah, I mean, all of the classics, like Metallica, Motorhead, The Cult, all those kinds of things.
00:04:28.000 I haven't lost any of Def Lepp and those things.
00:04:32.000 I saw the record of Whitesnake, but all those things.
00:04:37.000 I think we're both in the 50s, right?
00:04:40.000 We grew up with the crew.
00:04:42.000 And all those kinds of things.
00:04:44.000 So, some people might judge me based on my taste on music, but, I mean, that's kind of where it's been.
00:04:52.000 Listen, people are going to judge you no matter what.
00:04:54.000 You're a big, giant guy who wears hoodies and you're a senator.
00:04:58.000 No matter what, they're going to judge you.
00:05:00.000 Who cares?
00:05:00.000 But I'm just trying to understand what is going on with the captioning because you can hear, but so there's some sort of a disconnect between hearing and understanding.
00:05:13.000 What is it?
00:05:14.000 Yeah, I wouldn't say it's necessarily a disconnect.
00:05:17.000 It's just about being precise on that, just to make sure of that.
00:05:21.000 So, you know, like for an interview, just to make sure of those things.
00:05:24.000 So, it's really just about captioning.
00:05:28.000 Really, it's just a tool, no difference.
00:05:30.000 I mean, this is like my eyes, in the sense for glasses.
00:05:34.000 Right, I understand.
00:05:35.000 So it just gives you a little bit more precision in what you're saying and understanding.
00:05:40.000 What was it like running for senator right after recovering from a stroke?
00:05:45.000 That had to be a nightmare.
00:05:47.000 Yeah, I don't recommend that.
00:05:50.000 I don't recommend that.
00:05:52.000 Because you seem to have recovered quite a bit since then.
00:05:56.000 Oh yeah, no.
00:05:57.000 But during that time you were really struggling.
00:06:00.000 Oh sure, absolutely.
00:06:03.000 It was a rough conversation after that.
00:06:11.000 They brought me into the hospital and then I went under.
00:06:16.000 And then I woke up and they said, hey, we got it.
00:06:23.000 We got it.
00:06:23.000 We got the clot.
00:06:24.000 The clot that essentially just but killed me.
00:06:27.000 And I'm like, oh, that's good.
00:06:30.000 And then just kind of went back under.
00:06:33.000 And at that point, I had no idea where we were at on those things.
00:06:38.000 And then I had, the next morning, I woke up, and then a doctor came on.
00:06:44.000 And he had kind of a grim kind of a look on his face and things.
00:06:49.000 And my dad was there sitting next to me at the bed.
00:06:52.000 And I was like, well, hey, Doc, what do you think?
00:06:58.000 What do you like?
00:06:59.000 And he's like, well, you know, you're Your heart is functioning at an incredibly low kinds of percentage.
00:07:08.000 And I'm like, well, what do you think?
00:07:13.000 And he was like, well, you know, I mean, there's some issues.
00:07:19.000 And I'm like, well, are we talking, you know, maybe a year, a year kind of thing.
00:07:24.000 And I'm like...
00:07:28.000 And this was all while you were running for Senate?
00:07:31.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:07:32.000 This was three days before the primary.
00:07:37.000 Oh, my God.
00:07:38.000 Yeah, I was on my way to an event.
00:07:41.000 And my wife, Giselle, she's like, you're having a stroke. 0.81
00:07:45.000 Because they had that classic kinds of where, you know, half of my face.
00:07:50.000 I didn't know that, but it kind of just...
00:07:52.000 Yeah, just slumped.
00:07:54.000 Yeah.
00:07:54.000 And then they hotlined me over to the hospital.
00:07:58.000 And I wouldn't have survived if we were in a different – I mean, there's parts of Pennsylvania, and that's part of the tragic, that if I wasn't close to the kinds of hospital that I was, it's 100% that I wouldn't have survived that.
00:08:13.000 And it got me there in enough time, and they were able to, there was an expert there.
00:08:18.000 And I actually had, I met that doctor that literally saved my life.
00:08:24.000 And I'm like, oh my god.
00:08:26.000 And he usually wasn't based in that hospital.
00:08:29.000 He was usually out of Delaware, but he happened to be there.
00:08:32.000 And he was here to give me an award for being that kind of an advocate for those things.
00:08:40.000 I'm like, no, the You deserve the award on that.
00:08:46.000 That's incredibly lucky.
00:08:48.000 Yeah.
00:08:49.000 And then I asked, really looking for like a countdown of like, well, what's the prognosis?
00:08:57.000 And I really, there wasn't much there on that.
00:09:00.000 And I had to, like, was I going to survive for long or, you know, what's that going to look?
00:09:06.000 And then, of course, the entire majority on the Senate really was on the middle of that.
00:09:11.000 And that's a big responsibility after that.
00:09:14.000 And then, so the primary, it happened.
00:09:18.000 And I actually had a really strong win.
00:09:21.000 And I won all of 67 counties.
00:09:25.000 Pennsylvania has 67 counties.
00:09:27.000 And we carried every county, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and all across Pennsylvania.
00:09:33.000 But at that point, I had a responsibility.
00:09:36.000 It's like, am I able to recover?
00:09:38.000 Or we're kind of...
00:09:41.000 Am I going to be okay?
00:09:42.000 And I wouldn't recommend being in that situation, but I made a commitment.
00:09:49.000 More than anything, I was more worried about being around, to be a dad.
00:09:55.000 I mean, I have three young kids, and my wife, you know, she lived through all of this.
00:10:01.000 So at that point, it started, I was in the hospital for about 10 days.
00:10:09.000 Yeah, and I start to get better and better.
00:10:12.000 The strength started to come back a little bit, but it was still rough.
00:10:15.000 And it was very, very clear though that I had a capacity to It's been impaired on hearing and those kinds of interaction and those things.
00:10:25.000 But that's the thing.
00:10:27.000 But I had to decide by August 15th, and that's my birthday, ironically, that if I step down by then or before, then they're going to have to find somebody to replace me on the primary, and that was going to be my dropout day on that primary.
00:10:46.000 So what was the operation?
00:10:48.000 How did they do it?
00:10:49.000 How did they remove the clot?
00:10:52.000 Well, it's, I mean, I had to originally, I had to go back to, I have to learn how to talk and speak.
00:11:02.000 You know, I went to a speech therapist and have interaction and those kinds of things.
00:11:08.000 And my hearing and those kinds of things were still impacted by that.
00:11:13.000 And they had to monitor my heart because it was, it effectively stopped.
00:11:19.000 I found out after the fact that it actually stopped.
00:11:22.000 And then my heart had to recover.
00:11:25.000 So there was two kinds of things working there.
00:11:27.000 You know, my heart.
00:11:29.000 And then right before the primary, they walked in and they said, well, here's what I suggest.
00:11:35.000 Here's what I suggest.
00:11:36.000 Now, we are going to put a pacemaker.
00:11:38.000 We're going to put in a pacemaker.
00:11:41.000 And we're like, hey, that's the best thing.
00:11:44.000 So they put that device right here.
00:11:45.000 And for anyone, if you're not really with that, is a pacemaker.
00:11:49.000 But that manages your heart.
00:11:52.000 Because I had a significant issue with AFib.
00:11:55.000 And that's really what did that to my heart.
00:11:58.000 And they put that in, and then that was right before the primary, and they put me under.
00:12:09.000 What year was this?
00:12:13.000 This was 22. And before you had this stroke, had you ever had any issues before with clotting or anything like that?
00:12:23.000 Not with clotting, not with clotting.
00:12:25.000 You know, I have, for good things and for bad things, my heart was just like my father's.
00:12:31.000 You know, and he had an issue with AFib, and he was in the hospital for...
00:12:35.000 So it's a genetic.
00:12:36.000 Yeah, a genetic.
00:12:39.000 But it was never an idea that I was even having a stroke.
00:12:46.000 That wasn't part of at least my thinking.
00:12:48.000 I knew that I was in distress.
00:12:50.000 I could tell that my heart was Was in problem.
00:12:54.000 And I was just going to get through this primary.
00:12:57.000 I mean, there's a lot running on that.
00:12:59.000 And then it didn't work out because the stroke hit three days before.
00:13:04.000 And then that forced me.
00:13:06.000 And that put me on an incredibly different kind of a path after that.
00:13:11.000 And so where do they go in when they're removing the clot?
00:13:15.000 Do they have to cut your skull open? 0.87
00:13:17.000 Like, how do they get it out of there?
00:13:18.000 They went up in your vein, in your leg, and they went up in.
00:13:23.000 And it's a remarkable technology.
00:13:26.000 Through your leg?
00:13:27.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:13:27.000 All the way up to your brain. 1.00
00:13:28.000 And they just sucked it out. 1.00
00:13:29.000 Wow. 0.92
00:13:30.000 And they actually had an x-ray or whatever, and you could say, hey, we got it out.
00:13:36.000 And I actually got to see, although I really was still kind of out of it.
00:13:40.000 But that was the clot that all but took my life.
00:13:44.000 And so...
00:13:47.000 I mean, there were a lot of things there.
00:13:49.000 Suddenly, your mortality was kind of like put right there in front of it and through that.
00:13:55.000 Do they have any idea what caused the clot?
00:13:58.000 Do they understand what happened to you?
00:14:02.000 My grandmother had an aneurysm.
00:14:05.000 And it was a horrible situation.
00:14:07.000 They didn't find her for several hours.
00:14:11.000 Afterwards, my grandfather came home, and she wasn't in the house, and then he found her in the backyard.
00:14:16.000 She had collapsed, and they gave her 72 hours to live, and she lived for 12 years like that.
00:14:22.000 It was horrible.
00:14:23.000 My grandfather had to take care of her.
00:14:25.000 It was really, really rough.
00:14:27.000 So I'm always really concerned with that kind of stuff.
00:14:32.000 What causes it?
00:14:35.000 Do they know?
00:14:37.000 Yeah, well, it's...
00:14:39.000 I mean, I had, for the first time in my life, and I hope it's the last time that I'm confronted by this idea that the doctors weren't able to provide any kinds of certainty, or it's like, oh yeah, man, you're going to be okay, or things are going to be okay.
00:14:57.000 So they don't know what caused it?
00:15:00.000 Well, I mean, it was afib, and my heart weakened.
00:15:05.000 And the stress of the primary and on the ongoing kinds of issues, it was already weakened about that issue earlier, and everything kind of came together, and I guess my heart deteriorated to the point where that caused the clot.
00:15:21.000 And then the clot, that's what nearly took my life.
00:15:24.000 Whew! 0.99
00:15:26.000 So then you have to go to work.
00:15:29.000 So now you are an elected senator and you have to go to work in the middle of recovery.
00:15:35.000 Yeah, it's...
00:15:38.000 I think...
00:15:42.000 I mean, I had a significant responsibility to stay in that and winning through all of those things.
00:15:54.000 And that was difficult enough.
00:15:59.000 It was an important conversation.
00:16:02.000 And we had to run a campaign.
00:16:04.000 We had to run a campaign.
00:16:06.000 When I was – it was difficult and I wasn't working at the kind of capacity that was necessary.
00:16:12.000 And that's – we had to run up to the 15th of August to decide if we're going to stay in that because there's a lot riding on that.
00:16:20.000 And you were also competing against Dr. Oz, which was weird.
00:16:24.000 You know, this guy who's a celebrity doctor who's – At least a little shady.
00:16:36.000 We were talking about captioning earlier right now and I think we're having an issue with some of the captioning right now here.
00:16:48.000 Is it not showing up?
00:16:50.000 Yeah, I think there's a little bit of a delay.
00:16:52.000 Well, maybe it's the way I said shady.
00:16:54.000 Yeah.
00:16:55.000 He's a little shady.
00:16:56.000 Like, he had been in trouble for talking about miracle diet remedies that weren't miracles at all, and I believe he got brought in front of Congress.
00:17:05.000 So it was a little odd that that guy was running for Senate at all.
00:17:09.000 Was he from Pennsylvania?
00:17:12.000 Yeah, well, Dr. Oz, yeah, I think from a technology, I think we have to address the captioning.
00:17:18.000 Oh, is it messing up right now?
00:17:19.000 Yeah, I think the captioning.
00:17:20.000 The captioning is running a little bit behind on here.
00:17:23.000 Okay.
00:17:23.000 So can we make some technological...
00:17:25.000 Stop and have her come fix it. 1.00
00:17:27.000 Yeah.
00:17:27.000 Okay, we'll have her come fix it.
00:17:29.000 Yeah, okay.
00:17:29.000 We'll pause here, ladies and gentlemen.
00:17:31.000 We'll be right back.
00:17:32.000 Yeah, I think we're good to go.
00:17:34.000 We put this on the Wi-Fi, and it's working great.
00:17:38.000 All right, we're back.
00:17:39.000 So what I was just saying, that it was odd that you were running against Dr. Oz, and he was just kind of...
00:17:44.000 Dr. Oz, yeah.
00:17:45.000 I mean, Dr. Oz.
00:17:46.000 Weird guy.
00:17:47.000 Yeah, and he used to be...
00:17:49.000 People used to thought he was, like, really brilliant.
00:17:52.000 I mean, he was like...
00:17:52.000 He was an amazing kind of surgeon, a celebrity.
00:17:56.000 And then he turned his career into like on TV. And then he started to pitch more kinds of questionable kinds of things and kind of bullshit kind of stuff. 0.94
00:18:05.000 And I don't understand why somebody would change his reputation. 0.78
00:18:10.000 I mean, he was really revered in that.
00:18:13.000 And I would have been comfortable to him operate on me.
00:18:19.000 But he kind of lost that.
00:18:21.000 And what was also pretty funny is that he clearly, he lived in New Jersey.
00:18:25.000 And so we were like, hey, we need to use that and point out that.
00:18:30.000 So we decided early on that we're going to just like, hey, you know, it matters.
00:18:35.000 It's like, I mean, there's nothing wrong with living on New Jersey, but there probably is an issue if you're running for the Senate.
00:18:42.000 And I really have like an ethos is that I'm not ever going to be mean and I'm not going to be personal about that.
00:18:49.000 So we tried to have a lot of fun with the fact that he lives in New Jersey.
00:18:53.000 And we just really just kept hitting him, hitting him.
00:18:56.000 And we had Snooki.
00:18:58.000 We did a cameo saying, gee, Mehmet, good luck.
00:19:01.000 I know things are going rough now, but you're going to be able to come back to New Jersey.
00:19:05.000 And that got viral.
00:19:06.000 And we did a lot of those viral kinds of moments.
00:19:09.000 And they have this thing where they have what's really penetrated.
00:19:13.000 And they have circles on things, like what's really part of...
00:19:17.000 People are asking about Dr. Oz.
00:19:19.000 And one of the zeros, the O's, was...
00:19:22.000 He's weird.
00:19:23.000 But the biggest one, New Jersey.
00:19:24.000 I mean, literally, New Jersey was.
00:19:26.000 That was the biggest one?
00:19:26.000 Yeah.
00:19:27.000 Well, Pennsylvania and New Jersey, even though they're neighbors, they do have a bit of a rivalry.
00:19:32.000 Yeah, well, of course.
00:19:33.000 And people have to understand that it's like that funny thing.
00:19:37.000 And, I mean, it borders with Pennsylvania.
00:19:40.000 And it really matters.
00:19:42.000 It matters to that.
00:19:43.000 And of course, Dr. Oz, he was strange in some sense, and we always tried to have fun with making fun of him.
00:19:51.000 Are you a fan of The Simpsons?
00:19:53.000 Yeah.
00:19:54.000 Yeah, but we matched up perfectly with Dr. Nick.
00:19:57.000 You know, Dr. Nick, Dr. Oz. 0.93
00:19:59.000 And we found all the weird shit that Dr. Nick would say, and then they have a clip of Dr. Oz saying those kinds of things. 0.96
00:20:06.000 And then that's where it was. 0.99
00:20:09.000 And we had a lot of fun with that.
00:20:12.000 We all figured out, well, essentially we chose to kind of empty the clip, metaphorically, and really start hitting him.
00:20:21.000 We went up on TV throughout the summer, and he was really put on his back.
00:20:26.000 And he was essentially thinking he could kind of take the summer off.
00:20:30.000 And then our polling, we got up about 10, 11 points and things.
00:20:34.000 If anyone's listening ever heard of the 538, they track on those races.
00:20:41.000 And the highest percentage we had to win was, I think, about 84%.
00:20:46.000 And things kept winning great, really, really great.
00:20:49.000 And then I had to decide on my birthday on August 15th.
00:20:53.000 And things were going so well, and I thought things, I'm like, okay.
00:20:57.000 And then we decided to stay on that race, and that's what we did. 0.98
00:21:02.000 And then, you know, post-Labor Day, and oh my gosh, we just got nuked in a way that it's never been experienced that before.
00:21:15.000 How so?
00:21:15.000 What do you mean?
00:21:17.000 Oh, a hundred million dollars of paid media to destroy you. 0.91
00:21:23.000 I mean, just tear you apart.
00:21:25.000 Every aspect of your life.
00:21:26.000 A hundred million dollars they spent.
00:21:28.000 A hundred million dollars.
00:21:29.000 For a job that pays how much?
00:21:31.000 Oh, it came from PACS, from Dr. Us.
00:21:35.000 Dr. Us put in, I think, $28 million.
00:21:38.000 How crazy is that?
00:21:38.000 Because what does it pay, being a senator?
00:21:44.000 Pay being a senator?
00:21:45.000 Yeah.
00:21:46.000 It's $174,000.
00:21:50.000 Can I talk about this?
00:21:52.000 Yeah, please.
00:21:53.000 I don't understand why some incredibly wealthy dudes will spend tens and tens of millions of dollars just to take that.
00:22:02.000 And I try to tell people there's no glamour here.
00:22:06.000 I just talked about that in an interview.
00:22:08.000 Do you think he wanted to become president and this was like a step to being president?
00:22:13.000 I guess everybody wants the Iron Throne, I get, but it's really not.
00:22:17.000 But it also, it's a different kinds of skills, and it really doesn't transfer over very well on that.
00:22:26.000 But right now in Pennsylvania, right now, David McCormick, Connecticut man, Connecticut man, he's running in Pennsylvania, and he lives in Connecticut, and he's incredibly wealthy.
00:22:37.000 I think he's worth three or four hundred million dollars, and he's spending the same race in Wisconsin.
00:22:43.000 They're dropping crazy...
00:22:45.000 And really, that's an important conversation that the real problem in American politics for me is Citizens United and unlimited money.
00:22:57.000 When they decided that money is speech, and now that turns the whole thing incredibly damaging.
00:23:05.000 Right now, there's been at least more than half a billion dollars, half a billion dollars on the table in Pennsylvania just for president, not just the Senate races and other House states.
00:23:18.000 And I was the most, at least at that point, was the most expensive Senate race in history.
00:23:22.000 And it was over 300 $330 million for that one seat.
00:23:29.000 And all of those dollars, they're spent to destroy and tear you apart.
00:23:36.000 And then Fox News, I was their top target for four months.
00:23:41.000 And social media, and I stayed out of that.
00:23:44.000 I didn't enjoy, but social media, all the conservative influencers, everything.
00:23:50.000 And it just tore me apart.
00:23:52.000 And at that point, at the end of September, It was, I mean, I couldn't get away from it.
00:24:01.000 And it really, it's like, until you've had $100 million to destroy you, it's a next level kind of thing. 0.97
00:24:10.000 And then everyone was, they were saying, well, he's a vegetable, you know, he's a retard, or he's lost his... 0.99
00:24:16.000 His brain and all kinds of things. 1.00
00:24:18.000 And then that wasn't true.
00:24:19.000 But the kinds of terrible things and those kinds of very personal things.
00:24:24.000 And it just got incredibly ugly in a way.
00:24:28.000 Yeah, that has got to be a terrible experience.
00:24:32.000 To realize that there's so much money being spent just to attack you and that you're a part of this very, very large and corrupt machine that's going after you just because they want to control the state.
00:24:44.000 And it's a giant swing state, of course.
00:24:47.000 Yeah, the Senate, the whole Senate.
00:24:49.000 The whole Senate was.
00:24:51.000 In fact, we actually flipped that seat.
00:24:54.000 And that's the first time, I think, in the 40s or 50s that we've had two Democratic senators in Pennsylvania.
00:25:00.000 Usually, it's been a Dem and a Republican.
00:25:02.000 And now, because we flipped that seat, mathematically, it's possible to retain the majority in the Senate.
00:25:10.000 But it's going to be still fairly difficult because we have Montana, Very, very red state, obviously.
00:25:16.000 And that's really what the Republicans have put, a significant bet, to make sure that they can flip Montana.
00:25:23.000 And then if Montana falls, then they're going to get the majority, unless there's a really surprise one.
00:25:30.000 But it may be more kind of difficult.
00:25:33.000 Do you think that money is...
00:25:37.000 The biggest problem in American politics, this ability to spend insane amounts of money. 0.57
00:25:43.000 Yeah.
00:25:44.000 I mean, just imagine if you were a movie studio, and you're going to put out a movie. 0.91
00:25:49.000 And a rival studio has $100 million to tell America, that movie sucks. 1.00
00:25:54.000 That's shit. 1.00
00:25:55.000 And it's crazy. 1.00
00:25:57.000 And it's just...
00:25:58.000 There's always going to be unlimited money because it's all about the control of the Senate or the House or the presidency.
00:26:05.000 And when money is speech, it's going to be unlimited.
00:26:11.000 And what happens?
00:26:13.000 It's like, well, that's TV and on social.
00:26:16.000 And it's going to be, how can I destroy and break...
00:26:20.000 This individual.
00:26:21.000 And that's where it is.
00:26:22.000 And it gets incredibly personal.
00:26:24.000 And it has an impact.
00:26:27.000 I mean, certainly it has for me.
00:26:30.000 And until we have unlimited money, it's going to get more and more mean, personal, and expensive.
00:26:37.000 And if you look at the billions of dollars that's spent, how what we could have done for our society, the kinds of reels that we could build And other things if we didn't spend all those money to tear each other apart.
00:26:52.000 Yeah, it's very strange, and it sets a terrible tone for the rest of the country.
00:26:57.000 Because these races, even though when they're over, people go back to a certain level of civility, it's already been established that this is on the table.
00:27:08.000 These personal attacks, this evil, vicious propaganda, taking things out of context, conflating people's words.
00:27:16.000 Yeah, no, you have, you know... 0.99
00:27:19.000 You take a quote, take it out of context, clip that shit, put $10 million behind that, and that's in front of millions of eyeballs right there spontaneously on that. 0.99
00:27:30.000 And it's directly right at you. 0.99
00:27:33.000 And it's unlimited money.
00:27:35.000 I mean, when you look back on this race, it's like you are going to be stunned. 0.95
00:27:40.000 Just how much money is put in that.
00:27:43.000 How crazy those ads are.
00:27:45.000 And just, you can't get away from it.
00:27:47.000 Like Montana.
00:27:48.000 Montana has, I think, six or seven hundred thousand voters.
00:27:53.000 And they've dropped a quarter of a billion dollars.
00:27:56.000 I don't know how you could even spend a quarter of a billion dollars in Montana.
00:28:00.000 It's like if you have a hundred thousand dollars in cash, you have to pay that in going to a McDonald's.
00:28:06.000 I don't know how they do that. 1.00
00:28:08.000 But I promise you, everybody in Pennsylvania or in any of these kinds of contested states, they just can't get away from that shit. 0.99
00:28:15.000 And at this point, they just stop paying attention to it. 1.00
00:28:18.000 It's noise.
00:28:21.000 It's toxic kinds of noise.
00:28:22.000 And it does.
00:28:23.000 It sets a tone for the whole country that we're willing to engage in this way.
00:28:28.000 Oh, yeah.
00:28:28.000 No, it's like that's the thing.
00:28:30.000 It turns everything into a night vice or worse.
00:28:35.000 Yeah.
00:28:35.000 And it is about trying to destroy that person and to convince other people that you are the worst thing in the world.
00:28:42.000 You're a Marxist, you're a communist, or you're just all kinds of things. 0.96
00:28:48.000 And it's the lowest, lowest denominator.
00:28:51.000 And if you really want to fix American politics, I mean, there are issues.
00:28:56.000 But I promise you, if you removed that...
00:29:01.000 That would be a dramatic kind of thing, and we all have to play that game.
00:29:05.000 Some of us, like myself, I got a lot more of my money from small-dollar donations, like Bernie.
00:29:11.000 Bernie, I know he's been on the show.
00:29:12.000 Bernie.
00:29:13.000 But then other ones, it's like everyone chases the bigger checks.
00:29:16.000 It's undeniable there, too.
00:29:18.000 And it's so disingenuous and there's PACs and there's other kinds of organizations.
00:29:23.000 One way or another, it's just a way to funnel tens of million dollars to just tear someone apart.
00:29:30.000 What was your background before you got into politics?
00:29:33.000 I was a social worker.
00:29:36.000 And I came to a very deeply broken and fractioned community.
00:29:43.000 And I actually started helping young men and women get their GEDs and just kind of getting their lives back on track in that sense.
00:29:51.000 And then that's why I did that for several years.
00:29:56.000 And then I decided I wanted to run for mayor and mayor of a small town.
00:30:02.000 And we had problems with inequality in a community that 90% of the population abandoned the community and left.
00:30:13.000 And if anyone's aware of the U.S. steel, I mean, I live right now across the street from that iconic steel mill.
00:30:20.000 I mean, that used to be America's Silicon Valley, like about half of the world's steel used to be manufactured there.
00:30:28.000 But now so much has changed.
00:30:30.000 And then I ran for mayor and a small town mayor.
00:30:34.000 And then that turned into, well, I decided like the kinds of issues that were meaningful to me and the personal kinds of experiences.
00:30:42.000 I just thought, hey, I want to project my kinds of experiences and my values.
00:30:47.000 And I started, I ran for the first time in 2016. I ran for the Senate.
00:30:52.000 I mean, it's pretty kind of strange that You have a small town mayor running for the United States Senate.
00:30:57.000 And but I mean, we had no money.
00:31:01.000 I mean, zero, zero money on that.
00:31:04.000 But we just we'd had a really like grassroots kind of a thing.
00:31:07.000 And we got out across.
00:31:10.000 Pennsylvania.
00:31:11.000 And we came up a little short, but we pulled in 20% of the votes, which people thought that was pretty remarkable.
00:31:19.000 And I carried my home county, which is Allegheny.
00:31:22.000 That's the second largest.
00:31:23.000 And that really kind of set the stage to run for lieutenant governor a couple years later after 2016. But 2016, though, that was where America met Donald Trump.
00:31:34.000 And I was early, you know, Turning the alarm off, saying, hey, we have to be concerned here.
00:31:41.000 Like, you know, Trump has connected with people in ways that it's like we have to be concerned.
00:31:48.000 And I'll never forget, it was June in 2016, and I was a surrogate for Clinton.
00:31:55.000 And Trump announced, hey, I'm showing up in a town called Manessin, which is a small town.
00:32:04.000 I'm like, why is he showing up? 0.85
00:32:09.000 Either he's crazy or they've plugged into something.
00:32:13.000 I have to see that.
00:32:14.000 I try to get into that just to kind of see what was going on. 0.99
00:32:17.000 But they recognized me and they said, yeah, get the fuck out. 0.99
00:32:22.000 You're hard to hide. 0.99
00:32:24.000 Yeah.
00:32:24.000 But they figured out that they have to connect and to make that kind of an argument to go to these kind of places.
00:32:32.000 And it did.
00:32:33.000 It resonated.
00:32:34.000 And you started to see a lot of the signs and a lot of the energy.
00:32:38.000 And it's like, hey, there's a problem.
00:32:42.000 And the Clinton campaign, everybody assumed that she was going to run away with it. 1.00
00:32:47.000 Yeah.
00:32:48.000 And they made the mistake of just showing up in Philadelphia, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, and assumed that they were going to be okay, but a lot had slipped.
00:32:58.000 And now the margins, Trump created margins that were unheard.
00:33:05.000 Like, you know, we referred to them as Romney margins.
00:33:07.000 So in other words, you have red counties, and Romney would cover those by about 60 to 65%.
00:33:16.000 And Trump did.
00:33:17.000 He created 80s, 80s.
00:33:19.000 We were losing 80-20, 80-20.
00:33:21.000 And like, well, yeah, that's a small county.
00:33:24.000 But yeah, you multiply that by 57, 57 other counties.
00:33:28.000 And that's how they scale up.
00:33:30.000 And that's how he won.
00:33:32.000 And he won by 45,000 votes.
00:33:34.000 And that's why he captured the blue wall.
00:33:37.000 And that made him president.
00:33:39.000 And here we are right now.
00:33:41.000 The blue wall is they're both fighting on the blue wall.
00:33:44.000 And the blue wall is Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.
00:33:48.000 Hmm.
00:33:49.000 When you were running during 2016, what were you trying to accomplish?
00:33:55.000 What did you want to do that you felt like you could uniquely provide a service for?
00:34:03.000 Well, I just think it was just different.
00:34:06.000 I'm like, hey, I was running for about Forgotten Places.
00:34:10.000 People where America's turned their backs on them and talking about those kinds of important issues like living wage, abandoning the industrial parts of America.
00:34:23.000 Some people watching what things have been left behind in places like Braddock, it's astonishing.
00:34:31.000 90% of people left and 90% of the buildings are gone.
00:34:35.000 And that whole region has just been...
00:34:39.000 Thrown away.
00:34:42.000 There was a path.
00:34:45.000 I mean, there were two other people in the primary.
00:34:48.000 And I thought I could maybe split.
00:34:50.000 I could split the other two and just sneak by and get 33% plus one extra vote.
00:34:55.000 But I came up a little short because I had no money because it's always going to be about money.
00:35:00.000 And then Katie McGinty, she won, but she lost. 0.93
00:35:04.000 And then that was that same cycle and then the same year that Trump won.
00:35:12.000 And so since you've been in, since you've gotten into the Senate, what meaningful change have you been able to accomplish there?
00:35:20.000 Well, again, you're a freshman.
00:35:24.000 And, you know, my colleague and one that was just here, Senator Vance.
00:35:29.000 I mean, we were both in the same cycle.
00:35:31.000 We both ran in 22. So we both there for less than two years.
00:35:36.000 And it's really based on seniority, and it's just kind of like, hey, get on the end of that line.
00:35:42.000 So you are a freshman, and your influences, at least in the institution, are limited in some sense.
00:35:50.000 But if you have a bigger platform, and I did, and I try to have those kinds of impacts and having those conversations.
00:35:56.000 But my first couple of First half of that first year, that was a little, took a different detour because, you know, I was dealing with depression.
00:36:10.000 I was in depression and I realized that I was in a bad place.
00:36:14.000 So having to make those kind of choices and I signed myself in to Walter Reed to get help because the depression and so I think it's an important conversation.
00:36:27.000 And I knew, I thought at that time it could be politically, it could be difficult.
00:36:32.000 But I thought it was important.
00:36:34.000 And now if that costs me something politically, I'm okay.
00:36:37.000 So that's why I'm continuing.
00:36:38.000 So the impact I've had, I never fully expected that that voice would break through.
00:36:45.000 And I'm in contact with people constantly saying, thank you for talking about this.
00:36:50.000 I chose to get help, or I chose not to follow that path on self-harm.
00:36:57.000 And so I've had active conversations with members of Congress or fathers with younger kids, and they're like, hey, can you please talk?
00:37:05.000 And I do that, and I'm happy to talk to anybody.
00:37:08.000 And so that's a way I've had an impact through all of that and also my voice through after what happened on 10th, 7th, October 7th.
00:37:18.000 And I've decided I was going to be a very consistent voice for Israel through that.
00:37:24.000 So that's why kind of like the platform, but in terms of if anyone's being honest, whether it was Senator Vance or any kinds of freshman senators.
00:37:33.000 It's very limited because otherwise there's people that have been there for 25-30 years.
00:37:38.000 They're the ones that are the chairman and if you're a minority party, you have incredibly limited kinds of ability to move an agenda.
00:37:48.000 So the depression thing, I think it's very important that you talked about that.
00:37:54.000 I think transparency is something that people really appreciate.
00:37:59.000 So many people suffer from depression.
00:38:00.000 It's such a normal part of being a human being.
00:38:04.000 And for a guy like you, who's a senator, who's already gone through being attacked, already gone through all these horrible things that they said about you while you were recovering from a stroke, It takes a lot of courage to come out and discuss that.
00:38:19.000 I think it's really important.
00:38:20.000 I'm really glad you did it.
00:38:22.000 Well, thank you, but I don't think it was really courage.
00:38:25.000 It's like I only had a choice.
00:38:26.000 But it is courage because you know you're going to be publicly attacked and it's a vulnerable point.
00:38:32.000 But I think it's not because I think so many people suffer from it.
00:38:36.000 I think there's courage in coming out and talking about it openly and realizing that people are going to use it as an attack vector and saying, you know what?
00:38:45.000 This is important to talk about.
00:38:46.000 This is important to acknowledge and to show people that you can recover from something like that.
00:38:53.000 Well, originally I was just going to talk about depression.
00:38:57.000 And there's a paradox.
00:38:59.000 You know, you might be a place in your life that you've actually kind of won, but depression lies to you and it convinces you that you've lost.
00:39:07.000 And my depression got far more worse after I won.
00:39:11.000 And then it was a downward spiral.
00:39:15.000 And then if you don't check your depression, then you go down a dangerous slope about self-harm.
00:39:23.000 And I started to have...
00:39:24.000 I got to...
00:39:25.000 To occupy that kind of a dark place.
00:39:29.000 And that's when I realized that I have a choice.
00:39:32.000 It's like, if I don't address this, then I had an emergency break.
00:39:38.000 You know, it's like, I have to stop.
00:39:40.000 I have to stop.
00:39:41.000 I have to...
00:39:42.000 And that was my kids.
00:39:43.000 I'm like, I cannot be...
00:39:45.000 I can't be the example.
00:39:47.000 And when you're going to get older in life and you're going to have those kinds of challenge, well, hey, dad decided to leave.
00:39:54.000 Oh, that must be the right thing.
00:39:56.000 And I'm like, I cannot allow myself to be the example for that.
00:40:00.000 So I stayed in the game.
00:40:03.000 And I was able to get help.
00:40:04.000 And I got much better.
00:40:06.000 So, like, for me, it's like I originally didn't want to talk about self-harm because that's definitely not a great political winner.
00:40:13.000 Right.
00:40:13.000 But I was like, I have to be honored about that and honest.
00:40:19.000 And people, that really resonated with people.
00:40:22.000 I think the first person, I was the first politician, especially at that level, talking about self-harm.
00:40:29.000 And, you know, if people that are suffering, people that, I mean, you have a huge audience, I'm willing to bet plenty of them are suffering from that or looking through those kinds of issues.
00:40:40.000 No doubt.
00:40:40.000 No doubt.
00:40:48.000 And I'm not an expert, but if you promise yourself to stay in that game, stay in that game, that you already, you know, you're almost guaranteed to get better because I promise you it will get better.
00:40:59.000 And I was at the point where I was really, you know, in a very dark place and I stayed in that game and I am staying in front of you right now and having this conversation.
00:41:10.000 And so that's what I try to tell everybody, whether they're listening today or in other times when I've had that.
00:41:17.000 It's an honest conversation, but it is a red and blue conversation, and it's a rural and urban or suburban conversation.
00:41:25.000 It's men or women.
00:41:28.000 I've had conversations with teenagers, you know, with their parents, and they've even tried to take their lives.
00:41:34.000 And I can't think of anything much more tragic than especially a young person taking their lives over some of the things that...
00:41:40.000 And I never thought that voice would penetrate, but it did.
00:41:47.000 And that's why I'm willing to have that conversation.
00:41:50.000 Well, apparently it's very common for people that undergo major surgery to have depression afterwards.
00:41:58.000 And there's a bunch of physiological reasons for that, they believe.
00:42:03.000 My friend, Dr. Mark Gordon, who's done a lot of work on traumatic brain injuries and depression amongst athletes and soldiers, he did a lot of research on that.
00:42:12.000 And one of the things that they found is that people that Undergo like a long period of anesthesia and either heart surgery or any kind of major surgery.
00:42:23.000 There's a disruption of your endocrine system afterwards that leads people to be just weary and broken down.
00:42:32.000 And I could imagine that along with the Senate race and all the other chaos and all the stresses involved with that, it plays a significant factor.
00:42:41.000 Well, I'm sure it must have been a factor.
00:42:45.000 I discovered that I had two friends.
00:42:48.000 They're roughly my age, and they had young kids, and they took their lives.
00:42:53.000 And they were both in the media, and one worked for an incredibly elite organization, and another one had a really strong position.
00:43:02.000 One had a heart attack and the other one had a stroke years earlier and I found out.
00:43:08.000 And I wish I could have talked to them.
00:43:11.000 And I did talk to them.
00:43:14.000 But it doesn't mean they were weak or that they gave up.
00:43:17.000 It's just I got lucky and I found my emergency brake.
00:43:23.000 And if you have any kinds of study on people and self-harm, there was an individual, he jumped off the Golden Gate and he survived.
00:43:31.000 And immediately after he says, as he crossed over the rail and he, I want to live, I want to live.
00:43:38.000 What have I done?
00:43:39.000 It's like I've made a terrible mistake.
00:43:40.000 And you hit the water going 75 miles an hour and it's very against chance of surviving, but he did.
00:43:49.000 And now he became obsessed with this idea, and he looked out for everyone that survived.
00:43:54.000 And about 45 people out of 1,800 people that have jumped over, they survived.
00:43:59.000 And it was unanimously people immediately like, oh my god, I want to live, I want to live, I want to live.
00:44:05.000 And not one single person thought, well, I wish I was more successful.
00:44:10.000 So I try to put that forward, and I can't imagine how difficult because They had children the same age mind and trying to explain to a 10-year-old son, like, why did daddy leave?
00:44:27.000 And those are dark conversations.
00:44:30.000 And so it's not about weakness.
00:44:36.000 It's about trying to get away from that.
00:44:39.000 People that are suffering from depression, if anyone's been there, it's like your mind is on fire.
00:44:46.000 And you just want to get away from that.
00:44:48.000 Please, I need relief from that kind of a thing.
00:44:50.000 And every now and then you have kind of like the eye of the hurricane where you finally thought maybe things could get better, but it roars back in and it's like you get back to that very dark place.
00:45:02.000 And I just tell everybody, I'm begging you, stay in that game.
00:45:07.000 I promise you it can get better.
00:45:09.000 And the depression is lying to you.
00:45:12.000 It is absolutely lying to you.
00:45:15.000 But don't make the kind of choice that you can't come back from.
00:45:18.000 I have a friend who jumped off the bridge and died that way.
00:45:23.000 It's a terrible thing to find out.
00:45:29.000 And you always feel like you could have talked to them.
00:45:32.000 You could have helped.
00:45:33.000 You always feel like, I didn't know.
00:45:35.000 I didn't know he was suffering.
00:45:36.000 And then I found out that he died a few days later.
00:45:40.000 And it was just like...
00:45:41.000 It just leaves you feeling so lost.
00:45:45.000 It's such a terrible way to go, too, that bridge.
00:45:49.000 God, how many people, like, would you say how many people have jumped off that bridge, the Golden Gate?
00:45:53.000 I think they reference over 1,800 people.
00:45:57.000 And a small, small, tiny survived.
00:46:01.000 And really...
00:46:03.000 Being faced that idea that you're not going to come back, it's like spontaneously curative.
00:46:08.000 Like, oh my god, I want to live, I want to live, I want to live.
00:46:10.000 Like, it was unanimous about it.
00:46:13.000 And that's such an important kind of research that he did.
00:46:18.000 And again, that's my message.
00:46:22.000 It has to be very simple.
00:46:23.000 Stay in that game.
00:46:25.000 It's like you can't do this.
00:46:27.000 You can't do this.
00:46:28.000 And you need support.
00:46:30.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:46:30.000 You need support, whatever that is.
00:46:32.000 And some people have different kinds of resources.
00:46:35.000 I mean, I would want that for everybody, the resources that I had.
00:46:38.000 That's not fair.
00:46:39.000 It's not fair.
00:46:42.000 I got lucky.
00:46:43.000 It's not because I'm so much stronger or better.
00:46:47.000 It's like, no, no, I just got lucky on that.
00:46:50.000 And I promise you, you're not going to regret staying in the game.
00:46:56.000 And you can get better.
00:46:58.000 And that is probably, I think, in my opinion, that's about 75% of getting back better.
00:47:06.000 What have you done?
00:47:08.000 What has helped you?
00:47:11.000 My family.
00:47:14.000 That's really what, like, every person needs to have, like, that emergency, I call that, like, an emergency break.
00:47:23.000 It's like, you know, you're out of control.
00:47:25.000 You know, you're having the darkest conversation you'll have with yourself, and you have to have something to stop that.
00:47:31.000 Otherwise, you're going to go over the edge.
00:47:34.000 And everyone needs to have that, whatever that is, whether it's your family, whether it's your wife or your husband, or whether it is, or that there has to be some...
00:47:45.000 It has to get better.
00:47:47.000 It's going to get better.
00:47:48.000 You know, that's why I say, stay on the game.
00:47:51.000 And I'm not an expert.
00:47:53.000 I'm not trained in that.
00:47:54.000 But when people reach out to me and say, well, I feel like this, and I'm like, hey, it's like, you know, help works.
00:48:02.000 I promise you it will get better.
00:48:03.000 And I can't guarantee what your path will be.
00:48:06.000 But what I can say is that stay in that game and you are going to find your way on that path.
00:48:12.000 And you're never going to regret.
00:48:14.000 It's like, oh, you know, it's just the finality, the finality of that.
00:48:23.000 And you can make a bad choice, and that might set you back in life, but that's the one choice you can't come back from.
00:48:34.000 And you will leave people in your life that they'll never understand, or you wish you could reach back and you could let them know.
00:48:44.000 And stay away from that kind of blackness, because I promise you, you would regret And if you can't, come back. 1.00
00:48:54.000 So what has helped you?
00:48:56.000 Counseling?
00:48:57.000 Medication?
00:48:58.000 What are the things that got you back on track other than just your family?
00:49:06.000 The election and everything, I was convinced that I've lost everything.
00:49:13.000 It was difficult to fully speak, and my kids, they got pulled into the social media kinds of invective.
00:49:28.000 It's like I've destroyed my health.
00:49:32.000 I've...
00:49:33.000 And now I've...
00:49:34.000 Against odds, I won.
00:49:37.000 And now am I going to be able to do this job?
00:49:40.000 And...
00:49:43.000 Would I have been better off if I didn't survive?
00:49:47.000 And I got to that kind of a dark place.
00:49:52.000 And then I just had this spontaneous, where it's like, my kids, it's like, no, I love you.
00:50:00.000 It's like, oh my gosh.
00:50:01.000 It's like when they were visiting, I didn't want them to visit me at Walter Reed.
00:50:06.000 I was like, why would they want to be around this?
00:50:09.000 But they did.
00:50:11.000 It was like this kind of spontaneous kinds of love.
00:50:14.000 And it just was like a shot.
00:50:17.000 And it's just like, I can come back.
00:50:19.000 I can come back.
00:50:20.000 I thought, it's like, well, why would they want this mess back?
00:50:25.000 And then, you know, just working through a lot of those things and other kinds of techniques and things.
00:50:32.000 But that was probably the single most transformative event where it's like I realized that I can come back to my life.
00:50:39.000 Otherwise, it's like, I thought I've lost everything.
00:50:42.000 Would I be able to even do my job?
00:50:45.000 And it's like, do I even have a career?
00:50:47.000 I mean, I'm talking about, like, that was a significant national story after I signed myself in, and that pulled my kids in through that.
00:50:57.000 I mean, this idea.
00:50:59.000 After we announced that we're signing in, and there were news trucks outside their house, and And they had the trauma of thinking that dad could have lost after the stroke and now he is, it's just, it's put them through so much.
00:51:15.000 And that's why I was convinced that they probably don't want me around. 0.98
00:51:19.000 And then I made the stupid mistake of, I went on social media and things, I'm like, and just, I read some of that shit. 0.99
00:51:29.000 I mean, it's just, it's just, oh my god. 0.99
00:51:33.000 Millions and millions of views and videos and it's just like, you know, going after my family and saying, you know, hey, he's a vegetable. 0.98
00:51:43.000 He's, you know, he's a retard and, you know, sling blade and all kinds of things. 0.99
00:51:50.000 And it wasn't We're good to go. 0.98
00:52:05.000 Well, I think it's not just individuals.
00:52:06.000 I think it's targeted.
00:52:08.000 I think there's a lot of that stuff, especially when there's something that is significant as a Senate seat.
00:52:14.000 And I think there's...
00:52:16.000 Yeah, well, I mean, it's like if I have $100 million to convince you that you're a terrible person and you're the worst thing ever, and that inspires a lot of people, and hey, that's the mission.
00:52:28.000 It's like he clearly, he must be those things.
00:52:30.000 And, you know, there is no tap out.
00:52:34.000 I think?
00:52:57.000 I promise you, there will be tens and tens of millions of dollars, and their mission is to turn you into the worst thing in the world.
00:53:04.000 And whoever survives, that's the one that's going to be in that seat.
00:53:08.000 And I still will never understand why someone, independently wealthy kinds of people, will spend Incredible amounts of money.
00:53:17.000 And I tried people.
00:53:18.000 I'm like, there's no glamour here.
00:53:21.000 I'm in a 500-square-foot apartment and I'm here with my phone.
00:53:25.000 I'm like, hey, Grubhub, what's it tonight?
00:53:27.000 And then I watch TV on Netflix and things and I ask my colleagues.
00:53:35.000 I'm like, hey, is there kind of secret society?
00:53:38.000 You know, like, you know, crazy parties or, you know, sitting around with cigars and, you know, all this.
00:53:44.000 And I'm like, well, no.
00:53:45.000 I kind of have the same version of that.
00:53:48.000 That's the perception, though, right?
00:53:49.000 The perception is you get invited into a club.
00:53:53.000 Now you control the world.
00:53:55.000 Yeah, that we all have witty kinds of dialogue on West Wing.
00:53:58.000 You know, like talking like all this, you know, kinds of turn...
00:54:02.000 And really, it's just like, and I describe that as a lot of it's just bad performance art.
00:54:10.000 That's usually what it is.
00:54:12.000 It's just bad performance art.
00:54:14.000 And some people, like if you're in a safe place, In a safe state or a safe seat, you, and especially if you have the resources and they're incredibly wealthy people, they buy a house and they move their life there.
00:54:29.000 So you're able to kind of things, but like I don't have those resources and I'm in a very, very, the ultimate purple.
00:54:37.000 And so I spend more than 50% of my time away.
00:54:41.000 And I miss my kids.
00:54:43.000 It's rough for that.
00:54:45.000 I mean, I signed up for that.
00:54:47.000 But I promise you, there's no glamour in that.
00:54:52.000 Well, there's certainly no glamour if you're honest.
00:54:55.000 But I think there's a lot of people that look to certain members of the government that have jobs that pay $150,000, $170,000 a year, but somehow or another acquire hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of their career Usually through some kind of insider trading.
00:55:15.000 Well, yeah, of course.
00:55:16.000 I mean, I don't own any of those stocks or anything.
00:55:19.000 And definitely, like, if you have any kinds of impact, or you know that there's something coming, I mean, yeah.
00:55:27.000 How is that legal?
00:55:30.000 Well, no, we should have the kind of legislation to make sure that you're not – like if you are on Congress, you shouldn't have any kinds of stocks because you are going to be passing kinds of laws, et cetera, et cetera, that you have to separate that.
00:55:44.000 They really shouldn't be a part of that kind of a thing.
00:55:47.000 And I mean, I'm all out.
00:55:50.000 I'm open.
00:55:52.000 All of us, we have to have our wealth and all that there.
00:55:56.000 And if I'm not the poorest, I'm probably the bottom five.
00:56:03.000 And other people there are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
00:56:07.000 So we can't have that situation where if you're going to be involved on those kinds of legislation, that you can't be enriched by Those kinds of, and there has to be some kind of influence.
00:56:18.000 That seems simple.
00:56:20.000 That seems, like, logical.
00:56:22.000 Like, most people would agree to that.
00:56:24.000 Yeah, there's a lot of inertia.
00:56:26.000 It's the same thing.
00:56:27.000 I think if any one of us were being honest, money is destroying our democracy.
00:56:33.000 And some people, that might sound trite, or it's a cliche, but it's 100%, though.
00:56:39.000 I think most people I promise you, it is absolute.
00:56:45.000 It is a scourge of American democracy.
00:56:48.000 And money is king.
00:56:50.000 And what's that money for?
00:56:51.000 That money is for tearing you apart.
00:56:54.000 And that creates more and more and more kinds of incivility and cruelty.
00:56:58.000 And then now, when I was in graduate school for that stuff, I mean, there was no social media.
00:57:05.000 And there wasn't...
00:57:07.000 You know, there wasn't podcasts.
00:57:08.000 There wasn't all kinds of things.
00:57:10.000 So that made it more difficult.
00:57:12.000 But now there's all of those things.
00:57:14.000 And social media is an accelerant and, you know, just unlimited money.
00:57:20.000 And that has what, you know, like, I'm sure, you know, you're an athlete.
00:57:25.000 And if you've heard that NFL players, it's like, wait, would you want your son to play?
00:57:30.000 And sometimes say, well, no, I wouldn't want that for my son.
00:57:33.000 And it's like I'm relieved that my oldest is like he has no interest in being in politics.
00:57:40.000 So I can't imagine it's going to get better until, you know, we address this idea that unlimited money is unlimited attack.
00:57:51.000 And it's unlimited cruelty and hyperbole and just all kinds of poisoning the well that, you know...
00:58:02.000 Half of us are going to hate your guts and the other half, hey, that's my team.
00:58:07.000 Yeah.
00:58:08.000 Well, I strongly feel that the internet should remain the way it is in terms of people being able to post on social media anonymously if they so choose.
00:58:19.000 But the problem with that is it can be captured by money, and it can be captured by these enormous groups that have bought farms, whether it's state actors, whether it's other countries, other nations that are doing that to try to attack our system and to try to promote certain narratives,
00:58:40.000 or whether it's our own country itself doing it, because I think we do it, too.
00:58:45.000 And I think that PACs do it, and it's just...
00:58:48.000 People hook themselves up.
00:58:50.000 It's like you self-select your cocoon.
00:58:52.000 Yes.
00:58:53.000 You know?
00:58:53.000 And like, I'm a big fan of Apple News.
00:58:56.000 And it's like 13 bucks a month.
00:58:58.000 But I read everything across the spectrum.
00:59:01.000 You know, very, very left and very, very right in between.
00:59:05.000 And I think it's really...
00:59:06.000 I think that's your responsibility, especially if you're an elected leader, to...
00:59:13.000 Be challenged, to challenge yourself on the ideas.
00:59:16.000 And it's like, clearly, one side doesn't have all the answers, and the other side can't be 100% wrong.
00:59:21.000 And it's just like being challenging and living or taking in other kinds of perspectives.
00:59:28.000 I think that's a responsibility, because otherwise, if you only just cocoon yourself into...
00:59:34.000 And it's just, it turns into a gigantic circle jerk, and that's why it just turns people to just kind of dig in, and it's like, hey, you know, the problem is them, and we have to...
00:59:45.000 Yes. 0.92
00:59:45.000 Well, it's a problem with human beings in general, is that we tend to be very tribal, and we tend to commit to an ideology... 0.92
00:59:52.000 And comfortable.
00:59:52.000 Yes.
00:59:52.000 It's comfortable.
00:59:53.000 Sure.
00:59:54.000 Especially when you're in an echo chamber.
00:59:56.000 Everyone's agreeing with you, you get social credit from saying the things that these people all agree with, and you feed off that.
01:00:03.000 But when it's being captured by...
01:00:06.000 It's not just these people exchanging ideas.
01:00:09.000 It's also a bunch of people that are manipulating people's ideas.
01:00:13.000 You know, I don't know if you've ever paid attention to, like, Rene DiResta's work with the Internet Research Agency.
01:00:20.000 Would they...
01:00:21.000 What they uncovered, what they were doing was using, this was like during the 2016 election, using social media and it was a lot of Russian troll farms and troll farms in other countries.
01:00:34.000 It's possible.
01:00:35.000 But to be honest, that election wasn't turned on, I think, Russian interference.
01:00:42.000 No.
01:00:44.000 What happened in 2016 was Trump, you know, he plugged into like kinds of a...
01:00:50.000 of an energy or, you know, like it was just like kind of looking to make that kind of a connection there.
01:00:57.000 Well, he's a legitimate outsider.
01:00:59.000 This is the appeal.
01:01:00.000 The appeal is that people think that this system is completely rigged and it's captured by money and special interests and enormous corporations and that here's a guy who's outside of this system completely and the evidence of that is how the system turned against him.
01:01:22.000 Yeah.
01:01:24.000 Yeah.
01:01:29.000 Yeah.
01:01:37.000 In one of those states, it's like it's very clear that wasn't because of some small kinds of tweets and things like whatever.
01:01:46.000 It's undeniable.
01:01:48.000 And also, remember, like he was, you know, the Republican Party was like, hey, this is a joke.
01:01:57.000 And I remember Jeb Bush, you know, and he had like 100 or 200 million dollars and And he just went by.
01:02:06.000 He ticked him off.
01:02:08.000 And even then, people thought he was going to win, but he did.
01:02:12.000 But remember, though, overall, though, that was 75,000 votes.
01:02:16.000 That's a mathematical, like, you know, I mean, think of that, 160 million votes.
01:02:22.000 75,000 spread across three large states, including my own.
01:02:26.000 That transformed American politics and in the world as well.
01:02:31.000 And it just came down to 75,000 voters in those three states.
01:02:36.000 And that's where we're at.
01:02:40.000 Yeah, it's an extraordinary time in that regard, right?
01:02:44.000 I mean, it's very uncharted territory.
01:02:47.000 Well, I reference a movie, like Bullworth.
01:02:50.000 I remember that movie.
01:02:52.000 Bullworth, and it was Warren Beatty, and he was a senator, and he kind of had like a breakdown, and he started saying provocative things.
01:03:00.000 He used to get up in front of his audience and kind of like that gaffe of accidentally telling the truth.
01:03:07.000 Yeah.
01:03:08.000 And it was kind of like, it was an absurd.
01:03:11.000 I mean, when I was in grad school, that was like put up as like, well, I mean, people enjoyed that.
01:03:17.000 And now that became a term in politics saying, oh, we affect even President Obama's like, hey, we all want to secretly go full Bullworth, full Bullworth. 0.99
01:03:27.000 And but but that's what really he channeled in where he would say, You know, it's kind of like he projects kind of like, well, I don't give a fuck, and just say all those kinds of a thing. 0.97
01:03:37.000 And people have responded to those kinds of things. 0.97
01:03:40.000 And, you know, a lot of people, that's the bug.
01:03:45.000 But you have to understand that for enough people, that's the feature.
01:03:49.000 And that's kind of what they want.
01:03:52.000 And whatever that is, it describes a brand that, you know, it's not, I don't admire that, but you still have to kind of marvel at the level to say crazy kinds of things.
01:04:09.000 Well, I guess maybe we're both old enough to remember when George, in the George Bush, Al Gore, he's like...
01:04:18.000 God, this guy.
01:04:19.000 And that moved the polls.
01:04:21.000 People were like, he rolled his eyes at Bush, you know, like things.
01:04:24.000 And like, you know, like it used to be much more staid.
01:04:27.000 And now think of what's been said now and all of the stuff.
01:04:30.000 And I don't think people aren't paying attention to some of the, whatever the latest outrage is.
01:04:38.000 Yeah, I think one of your appeals is that you speak like a normal human being.
01:04:45.000 You speak like a person who actually cares about these issues, and you seemingly speak from the heart.
01:04:52.000 You don't seem polished, which is a good thing.
01:04:56.000 And I think people— I wish I was more handsome.
01:04:59.000 I don't think that's good.
01:05:02.000 No, no, no.
01:05:03.000 It's like I'm honest.
01:05:05.000 I'm honest.
01:05:06.000 I think I'm in touch with what I'm limited.
01:05:09.000 I wasn't blessed with model looks.
01:05:12.000 But it's not looks.
01:05:13.000 It's the polish of speaking like a congressman, like a senator, like a presidential candidate. 0.90
01:05:21.000 But it's this kind of bullshit way of communicating that's inauthentic, that even though it's effective, even though it's polished and smooth, people never get a sense of who that person is as a human being. 0.99
01:05:33.000 Trump is not polished. 0.99
01:05:35.000 He's not polished in that sense.
01:05:36.000 But you get a sense of who he is as a human being.
01:05:40.000 There doesn't seem to be a veil.
01:05:41.000 There doesn't seem to be this disconnect between a human being and the thoughts. 1.00
01:05:48.000 You might not agree with him, you might think he's crass or rude, but at least you know that he's the guy that's talking, these are his thoughts, and people trust that way more than they trust someone who's, you know, polished but full of shit. 0.99
01:06:04.000 Yeah, no, it's that Scarface. 0.99
01:06:06.000 It's like, you know, word and balls.
01:06:08.000 You know, and you're losing politically if you're telling people to not believe what their eyes are seeing.
01:06:16.000 You know, like these kinds of issues.
01:06:18.000 And it's like I'm not going to lie or I'm not going to toe a line if I don't believe in that.
01:06:26.000 But in terms of the conversation, I think it's all I've got.
01:06:35.000 And it's not because I don't care.
01:06:37.000 It's actually I'm very committed and I really do care.
01:06:40.000 But I think people are, you know, like, I think authenticity, that's the last, that's really, that's one of the last meaningful currency in this shitty business.
01:06:50.000 So I was having a conversation this morning with a friend of mine, and we were talking about voter ID, and he was shocked that you don't need voter ID in, I believe, it's 15 states.
01:07:04.000 15 states require no ID. I think it's 24 or 25 states require ID, but only, I think, 11 of them require you to have photo ID. This is a weird one in this election that I've tried to look at.
01:07:27.000 As objectively as possible.
01:07:28.000 And I can't see any reason why you would not need ID to vote unless you wanted people to vote that aren't qualified to vote.
01:07:38.000 Yeah, well, I mean, like, honestly, I would like to remind everybody, and it's not like a talking point.
01:07:45.000 It's actually, it's in effect that voter fraud is incredibly, incredibly rare.
01:07:50.000 It's really hard to get away with that successfully.
01:07:55.000 And in 2020...
01:07:57.000 At scale, you mean?
01:07:58.000 Yeah, it's not scalable.
01:07:59.000 Yeah, it's like, I mean...
01:08:02.000 It's like, and usually, it's kind of local kinds of communities and people, they either know that person or it's not, it's never going to be organized in a point where you can pack a box or you can't determine that kind of a thing.
01:08:19.000 It's just that, you know, after election, election, election, it's just never been, you know, in 2020, out of over millions of votes in 2020 in Pennsylvania, there were five or six You know, once.
01:08:31.000 And what happened is that they turned out to be the Republicans, and they used their deceased, their dead moms, you know, to vote for Trump through that.
01:08:41.000 And that was documented.
01:08:43.000 And they were all caught, they were charged, they were convicted, and all those votes.
01:08:51.000 That would have been six votes out of all of it.
01:08:54.000 Do you think that that's the only voter fraud that exists?
01:08:58.000 Well, people also, we need to remind that, you know, the voter database, they're cross-checks against deaths and, you know, who's moved or what's their status are.
01:09:08.000 Like, you know, all that's cross-checked back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.
01:09:11.000 So it's a living kinds of thing where it's continually updated and all of those kinds of things.
01:09:18.000 And it self-checks.
01:09:19.000 And remember also...
01:09:21.000 In 2020, you know, Trump, they was like, there's cheating, there's all these things are happening.
01:09:26.000 And remember, there's probably 57, 58 red counties.
01:09:31.000 And all of those commissioners that are in charge of that, they were like, hey, no, there was none.
01:09:35.000 There was none.
01:09:36.000 And even in Georgia, even in Georgia.
01:09:39.000 Governor Kemp, like, hey, you know, Georgia, you know, it was very close, but it was honest.
01:09:46.000 There was no kinds of fraud in that.
01:09:49.000 And that's a Republican.
01:09:50.000 But other than making things a little bit easier to cheat...
01:09:57.000 What would be the logic behind not having voter ID? I've tried to look at this as objectively as possible.
01:10:05.000 I can't find any reason why you would not require someone to be able to prove that they're the person they say they are when they're putting in their ballots.
01:10:13.000 It's not a hill that I'm saying we have to die on that, too, again.
01:10:17.000 But it's a vulnerability, clearly, right?
01:10:21.000 Well, it's also – some people may not believe that in a lot of these kinds of communities, ones that I live in, for some people, they don't have an ID necessarily or they've lost it or whatever.
01:10:36.000 But you need one to get a driver's license.
01:10:38.000 You need one to get a Costco card.
01:10:41.000 Yeah, they would have to get an ID or it costs X amount of dollars or those kinds of a thing.
01:10:47.000 It's a barrier and it usually tends to skew more towards people that are coming from those kinds of communities.
01:10:54.000 And the Republicans understand that they're usually going to skew towards Democratic voters through that.
01:11:01.000 And so that's kind of the argument.
01:11:05.000 On that, and there's never been any evidence that there is widespread kinds of voter fraud, and that's...
01:11:14.000 But we really didn't have widespread mail-in ballots to the extent that it was done in 2020. We really didn't have that before.
01:11:21.000 Well, all of those were.
01:11:22.000 All of those were.
01:11:22.000 You know, those five or six, you know, dead moms that were voting, those were all, well, actually one.
01:11:29.000 One guy One guy went in, he voted, you know, and then he went up to his car and he put on sunglasses and a bobcap.
01:11:37.000 And he walked in, he's like, hi, hello, I'm here to vote.
01:11:39.000 And the guy's like, you were just here.
01:11:41.000 What are you doing?
01:11:43.000 And then they called the police.
01:11:44.000 And then it's like, yeah, he was trying to double vote.
01:11:47.000 Did you see the story about the Chinese national who was arrested because he voted and then he tried to get his ballot back?
01:11:57.000 And that's how they caught him.
01:11:58.000 It's possible, yeah.
01:11:59.000 Yeah, this is the thing that just happened.
01:12:01.000 And unfortunately, once he's voted, even though he was not eligible to vote, his vote is going to count.
01:12:08.000 Texas removed some, I mean, there's lawsuits about it, but Texas removed somewhere in the neighborhood of a million people that were ineligible to vote, that could have been voting.
01:12:18.000 Well, everybody knows who's voting and who's not voting on that.
01:12:22.000 What do you mean by that?
01:12:23.000 What do you mean by everybody knows?
01:12:25.000 Well, and remember, also, too, Dominion.
01:12:28.000 People on the Trump side, they all said that Dominion's was corrupt, and that cost Fox $800 million.
01:12:38.000 They had to pay $800 million about defamation for saying that it was rigged, or if it's not, and there was no evidence, and they had to just acknowledge that That this was the honest thing.
01:12:49.000 But Dominion is a computer program, right?
01:12:53.000 It's a computer.
01:12:54.000 That's what you're doing.
01:12:55.000 You're doing electronic voting.
01:12:57.000 Yeah, that was a system that mostly and often it was red states that were using those.
01:13:03.000 Well, that is true because do you remember the documentary Hacking Democracy?
01:13:06.000 Did you ever see that?
01:13:08.000 Again, there's always going to be people that are going to try to have an influence on that.
01:13:13.000 Right.
01:13:13.000 But did you see that documentary?
01:13:14.000 It was about the Republicans doing it.
01:13:16.000 I haven't seen that documentary.
01:13:17.000 It was a documentary during the Bush administration and one that they showed that the Diebold machines – and Diebold was a significant contributor, I believe, to the Republican Party.
01:13:29.000 They showed in the documentary that you could use a third-party input to change the results.
01:13:35.000 And they actually proved it in the documentary, and people were pointing to this as, oh my god, the Republicans are cheating, and the Republicans have used this to try to rig the election for George Bush.
01:13:47.000 It was an HBO documentary.
01:13:48.000 I'm not accusing – I've never accused the Republicans.
01:13:53.000 Well, in 2016. No, I'm not saying you did.
01:13:57.000 What I'm trying to say is that this is not a thing that's only been leveled against the Democrats using it.
01:14:05.000 This is not like an accusation that only applies to Democrats.
01:14:09.000 In the past, a similar accusation was applied to Republicans.
01:14:13.000 Yeah, well, I mean, I think we can all agree that we need to have a, just like our border, we need a secure border and we need an absolutely secure voting system as well, too.
01:14:24.000 I mean, that should never be considered controversial.
01:14:27.000 Right.
01:14:30.000 A lot of Democrats were outraged that we lost.
01:14:34.000 But I never claimed that there was – the Republicans cheated or do all those kinds of things.
01:14:41.000 And it's like the problem for accusing that there was voter fraud is that if you don't like the outcome – Right.
01:14:49.000 You know, so – and I have never witnessed an election, if they've won, that they claimed, well, there might be – you know, we might have cheated.
01:15:01.000 We're not cheating.
01:15:02.000 So I think that's kind of – I think that's kind of the underlying truth about that.
01:15:08.000 And of course – I think I was the first Democrat saying, hey, we need a secure border.
01:15:15.000 It's a significant issue.
01:15:16.000 And if I thought there was any kinds of issues – and I've been very vigilant throughout.
01:15:21.000 I've been actively involved in those kinds of things.
01:15:23.000 And I've never witnessed those kinds of a thing.
01:15:26.000 But what do you mean by issues?
01:15:27.000 Like what kind of issues are you talking about?
01:15:29.000 You're talking about people letting people in in order to get votes?
01:15:35.000 Well, I don't think there's that level of kinds of organization.
01:15:40.000 But there is an organization that's moving these people to swing states.
01:15:44.000 There's a significant number of these people that are illegal immigrants that have made their way to swing states.
01:15:51.000 And then there's been calls for amnesty.
01:15:54.000 There's been calls for allowing these people to have a pathway to citizenship and allow them to vote.
01:16:01.000 The fear that a lot of people have is that this is a coordinated effort to take these people that you're allowing to come into the country then you're providing them with all sorts of services like food stamps and housing and setting them up and then providing a pathway to amnesty and then you would have voters that would be significantly Voting towards the Democrats because they're the people that enabled them to come into the country in the first place and provided them with those services.
01:16:31.000 This is a big fear that people have and that you're rigging this system and that this will turn all these states into essentially locked blue like California is.
01:16:43.000 Well, you know, immigration is always going to be a tough issue in our nation.
01:16:50.000 You know, I had, as a professor in grad school, Alan Simpson.
01:16:55.000 And he was a United States senator.
01:16:59.000 He was Wyoming.
01:17:00.000 And he was actually a pro-choice Republican.
01:17:04.000 I mean, how rare that would be.
01:17:06.000 Well, it doesn't exist now.
01:17:07.000 And he said, you are never going to have any meaningful immigration kinds of Legislation.
01:17:14.000 He's like, because both side, that's useful for them.
01:17:17.000 And it's going to be back and forth, back and forth.
01:17:19.000 And he said that 25 years ago.
01:17:21.000 Useful meaning the debate, having it always a political talking point.
01:17:27.000 It's useful for one side or the other.
01:17:28.000 It's useful.
01:17:28.000 And he said there were never going to be.
01:17:32.000 And he said that in 1999. And I voted for the border deal.
01:17:37.000 And that went down.
01:17:39.000 And that's – I mean he said that 25 years ago and that was absolutely true now that they had an opportunity to do a comprehensive border bipartisan and that went down because Trump – he declared that that's a bad deal after it was negotiated with the other side.
01:17:58.000 But didn't that deal also involve amnesty, and didn't that deal also involve a significant number of illegal aliens being allowed into the country every year?
01:18:07.000 I think it was two million people.
01:18:09.000 So it was still the same sort of situation, and their fear is exactly what I talked about, that these people will be moved to swing states, and that that will be used to essentially rig those states and turn them blue forever.
01:18:24.000 Well, I'm not really sure if that's what's in play.
01:18:29.000 I think it's really important that we have to have an honest conversation.
01:18:33.000 But doesn't that seem logical, though?
01:18:34.000 If you have a significant number of people that are being moved into swing states that have come across the border illegally, and then you've provided them with all these services, you've provided them with food stamps, EBT, you've provided them with housing, You could, if you gave those people amnesty and allowed those people to vote,
01:18:52.000 and it was very organized, you're talking about 75,000 votes over a few counties that switched everything over to the Republicans.
01:18:59.000 You could see how you import 10 million people over the course of four years. 0.69
01:19:05.000 Illegally, and then move a significant number of them to swing states, and then provide them with all these services, and then give them a path to citizenship, you could essentially rig those states.
01:19:17.000 Undeniably, immigration is changing our nation. 1.00
01:19:20.000 I mean, I haven't spent a lot of time in Texas, but it's very clear that immigration has remade Texas. 0.75
01:19:25.000 And I think generally it's for a good thing.
01:19:28.000 And like my wife, my wife's Brazilian.
01:19:30.000 And her family was undocumented, and she was seven years old when she was brought here.
01:19:37.000 And I'm the big pro-immigration guy that there was, but it also has to be true that we need a secure border.
01:19:47.000 And we have to work this out, because we are pretending that you have millions and millions of people living in the shadow.
01:19:54.000 And they are here.
01:19:55.000 And we have to work together and figure out a way to get forward because they're here.
01:19:59.000 And it seems incredibly a difficult kind of logistics thing.
01:20:03.000 And I think it's also un-American to round everybody up and the vast majority of them are just living legal lives and doing a lot of the jobs that other people here would never do.
01:20:16.000 I think we can agree on that.
01:20:18.000 Well, J.D. Vance actually talked about that the other day when he was here.
01:20:21.000 He was explaining how there are CEOs of large corporations that want these people to come across because they need cheap labor.
01:20:29.000 And the way to get cheap labor is have people that are illegals working for less than what would be our minimum wage. 1.00
01:20:38.000 Well, I'm not aware.
01:20:39.000 I mean, minimum wage, really, I think it's the most incredibly difficult and violent kind of jobs.
01:20:46.000 Like, you know, and that's meat.
01:20:49.000 Jobs that a lot of people don't want to work.
01:20:51.000 A lot of those are kind of really rough.
01:20:52.000 Meat processing, construction.
01:20:54.000 Yeah, very, you know, rough.
01:20:56.000 Right.
01:20:56.000 And this is the thing that's been said about Springfield, Ohio, that these Haitians that have moved to Springfield, Ohio, people are complaining about them.
01:21:02.000 But the people that have employed these people are saying, listen, these people are taking jobs that other people that lived in this community don't want.
01:21:08.000 They work very hard and they're very happy that they have this pathway to be in America now.
01:21:14.000 I think most people that come here come here because they want a better life for their families.
01:21:18.000 And America is essentially a country that was founded by immigration.
01:21:22.000 I'm a grandchild of immigrants.
01:21:24.000 I'm here because of immigration.
01:21:26.000 We all were immigrants.
01:21:28.000 Yeah, this is an immigrant country, essentially.
01:21:30.000 Yeah.
01:21:30.000 And it's like, it's again, and like the Haitians, the Haitians, you know, that they're referencing in Ohio and Springfield.
01:21:38.000 I mean, they're not eating dogs.
01:21:40.000 They're not eating pets and those kinds of things. 0.96
01:21:42.000 Now, it's reasonable.
01:21:43.000 I mean, I've said the same thing that we have to have a secure border, but it didn't even apply to that situation.
01:21:48.000 That was all a legal situation.
01:21:50.000 That was enmity, amnesty, excuse me.
01:21:52.000 And that's because Haiti was – it was – Terrible. 1.00
01:21:58.000 Terrible situation.
01:21:59.000 Terrible situation.
01:22:00.000 And to me, they were doing those jobs.
01:22:02.000 And Republicans, even the Republican governor was saying, like, these are – We're good workers, and this is not the problem.
01:22:11.000 They aren't eating geese.
01:22:13.000 And it's just like, you can be very pro-pro-border, like I am, or you can be very strict on immigration, but you don't have to demonize or try to turn a group of people in that they're eating your dog.
01:22:26.000 Well, they're eating ducks and eating things.
01:22:29.000 Look, I'm sure some people have done that.
01:22:31.000 You know why I know that?
01:22:32.000 Because some people do that in places that are just Americans.
01:22:35.000 Ducks are edible, and some people want to eat a duck.
01:22:38.000 You're not going to stop it, but that's not the major problem that people face.
01:22:43.000 So this is the pro side of it, right?
01:22:46.000 The pro side of it is you give a pathway to people that are from very unfortunate circumstances, and I think we would both agree, That if we were living in those countries and there was a pathway to citizenship in the United States, all you had to do was make it across the border.
01:22:59.000 We would both do it.
01:23:00.000 It was better for our families.
01:23:02.000 It was better for our future.
01:23:03.000 If we were living in a place that had no hope and no future, and all you had to do is make it to America and you could work.
01:23:10.000 We would all do it.
01:23:11.000 I would do it.
01:23:12.000 You would do it.
01:23:12.000 I bet everybody listening to this would do it if they found themselves in that circumstance.
01:23:16.000 That's the best aspect of it.
01:23:18.000 The best aspect of it is good people that are ambitious, that want a better life, which is how this country was founded.
01:23:24.000 The worst aspect of it is Venezuelan gangs are taking over apartment buildings in Aurora, Colorado and San Antonio, Texas.
01:23:32.000 That's the worst aspect of it is that they're letting in gang members.
01:23:36.000 Venezuelans emptied out their prisons and essentially According to the president of Israel- Yeah, the marial boat lift, you know, the whole- Right, what happened in Cuba.
01:23:45.000 Yeah, the same kind of deal.
01:23:47.000 Emptying out their prisons and instructing these people to make it to America. 0.98
01:23:51.000 This is a significant problem with the open border.
01:23:54.000 Yeah, and that's why we need a secure border.
01:23:56.000 And there's also in it that all of this is about a truth, is that America is a beacon to the world.
01:24:03.000 Millions of people.
01:24:04.000 The demand to become a citizen here or to participate in our amazing society, the demand outstrips the space.
01:24:12.000 And we're already the very pro-immigration.
01:24:15.000 We allow more kinds of a path more than any other nations in the world on that.
01:24:21.000 And people are willing to die and they put themselves at risk just to kind of get here to be a participant here.
01:24:26.000 So America isn't the problem.
01:24:27.000 America is America is one of the great hopes in the world.
01:24:31.000 And that's why so many people want to come be a part of that.
01:24:33.000 And that's why it has to have an effective border.
01:24:37.000 And it's like, you know, we had a real issue here and we wanted to address that.
01:24:42.000 And that's why, you know, my former professor said that you're never going to have the kind of a deal because it is useful for both sides to weaponize that and to demonize one side or turn the other thing in there because it's a serious, important issue.
01:24:58.000 It's a political talking point that they're always going to use.
01:25:01.000 That's what you're saying?
01:25:02.000 Yeah, it's useful.
01:25:03.000 I mean, it's weaponized.
01:25:06.000 And that's why you have to have an honest conversation.
01:25:09.000 I was reaching out saying that was referred to HR1, and that was kind of like the dream kind of immigration law coming out of the House.
01:25:21.000 And I was like, hey, if that border deal goes down, then it's like, hey, we should continue to have that conversation.
01:25:26.000 Right.
01:25:26.000 You know, it's like they're parts of – they're parts.
01:25:29.000 But what's contradictory is that, say, if you're coming from Canada or Europe and you're a highly skilled, college-educated person who wants to live in America and become a United States citizen – The path to citizenship is incredibly difficult.
01:25:45.000 It's hard.
01:25:47.000 You have to go up for review.
01:25:49.000 You have to show that you're doing something that Americans can't do. 0.98
01:25:54.000 You have to be a person of significant talent or ability.
01:25:57.000 There's something about you that we want you in here.
01:26:00.000 Yet, if you just make it across the border and walk in, People want to give you amnesty, and they want to allow you a path to citizenship quickly.
01:26:07.000 Without any of those hoops, you don't have to take tests, you don't have to go up for review.
01:26:12.000 Not only that, but once you get here, once you apply for amnesty, there's a significant wait period where you're allowed to maintain your residence in this country.
01:26:22.000 It's between seven and sometimes longer years.
01:26:25.000 Yeah, we have to figure out what's the way to do all that.
01:26:28.000 Well, that's kind of crazy, though, isn't it?
01:26:30.000 But the fact is we have an issue.
01:26:31.000 We have millions of people here, and the vast majority of them are living legal kinds of lives.
01:26:39.000 What would you do if you were the president?
01:26:41.000 Let's imagine President Fetterman has to deal with this issue.
01:26:44.000 You want to address the American people.
01:26:46.000 What do you think should be done?
01:26:48.000 Again, I would have the same conversation to Congress and to American people like I'm having right now as well, too.
01:26:54.000 I think two things can be true at the same time.
01:26:57.000 You can be very pro-immigration.
01:26:59.000 I wouldn't have the beautiful family that I have if it wasn't for challenges and issues with immigration. 1.00
01:27:06.000 But then we have to figure out a way that we can marry, a successful way that we can combine.
01:27:13.000 You know, I think, I personally, I do think immigration is really one of our secret weapons. 1.00
01:27:18.000 I think that's what makes America so strong.
01:27:20.000 I agree with you.
01:27:21.000 I do.
01:27:22.000 That's made it...
01:27:22.000 Ambitious people want a better life.
01:27:24.000 I mean, that's literally how we're founded.
01:27:26.000 I mean, do you see people trying to live illegally in India or Russia?
01:27:31.000 You don't see people trying to take into nations like that.
01:27:34.000 I mean, in some sense, in a weird way, it's a significant but a good problem to have because we're such an amazing nation throughout that.
01:27:44.000 Agreed.
01:27:45.000 Yeah.
01:27:45.000 But if I'm President Federer, man, I'm like, hey, we got to figure this out.
01:27:49.000 We got to figure this out.
01:27:50.000 What would you do?
01:27:50.000 I'm not going to demonize the Republicans and say that you're xenophobic.
01:27:54.000 I mean, the second you start calling somebody, oh, you're xenophobic, it's like, well, then the conversation is going to shut down.
01:28:00.000 Right, right.
01:28:01.000 And I'm saying, I... It's like a serious conversation requires serious people and the second – and that's when you talk about unlimited money and it's like suddenly you're like – I mean I had gigantic billboards saying Fetterman equals open borders and Fetterman – it's just like I get turned into – A Marxist.
01:28:26.000 Yeah, just all these kinds of things.
01:28:28.000 And it's just like, and of course, that was never true.
01:28:31.000 And then when I had the opportunity, because, you know, as I'm a senator, and we have that kinds of legislation in front of me, I'm like, yes, we need to have a serious ones.
01:28:39.000 And now people are like, we're shocked.
01:28:41.000 They're like, oh, wait a minute, I thought they told us that he was all like bordering, opening up and whatever.
01:28:45.000 And it's just not true.
01:28:46.000 Well, that's the problem with people building a fake narrative around your actual opinions.
01:28:51.000 And I think people have been shocked by you.
01:28:52.000 And we've actually talked about it on the podcast over the last couple of years.
01:28:55.000 You say very reasonable things.
01:28:57.000 Very reasonable, honest things.
01:29:00.000 Yeah.
01:29:00.000 That's the thing.
01:29:03.000 But it's rare for politicians.
01:29:05.000 I'm eager to talk to anyone.
01:29:08.000 And it's like, I mean, I was thrilled to be here.
01:29:11.000 And I've been a long time...
01:29:14.000 Thank you.
01:29:15.000 And it's like, these are the kinds of, you know, like, parts of the times we've become too fragile, you know, like, oh, they're not allowed to talk about those things.
01:29:23.000 You're not allowed to have these kinds of conversation.
01:29:24.000 I never understood why that's really a problem.
01:29:30.000 But it's like when people discover, it's like, well, hey, he seems to be kind of reasonable, or me, I disagree with some things, but he's not what $100 million, you know, trained me to think that that's what...
01:29:42.000 Right.
01:29:42.000 The propaganda.
01:29:43.000 So like, what do you think could be done?
01:29:46.000 If you were President Fetterman, let's bring it back to that.
01:29:48.000 What would you do about the border?
01:29:51.000 Like, how do you secure the border, but also allow a pathway for people to pursue their hopes and dreams in the United States?
01:30:00.000 Yeah.
01:30:00.000 I would have – for me, I would have started with the HR2 and there are elements that are – they're just not palatable to – there are members of my colleagues that they come from more deep blue states and that becomes – it's not palatable to some people.
01:30:20.000 So … How do you secure the border?
01:30:22.000 How would that be done?
01:30:23.000 Well, I mean, it's just, it's got to have, you know, the best border deal is the only one that can pass.
01:30:33.000 And, you know, HR2, HR2 was described as like, kind of like, you know, I joke, I call that the only fans list of what Republicans want for immigration.
01:30:43.000 Right.
01:30:44.000 The OnlyFans wish list.
01:30:45.000 They're kind of like, this is what we all want.
01:30:47.000 It's like the OnlyFans, this is what we want.
01:30:52.000 How is it like OnlyFans?
01:30:53.000 What do you mean by that?
01:30:55.000 That was never going to pass.
01:30:56.000 That was never going to pass.
01:30:58.000 That was like what every Republican...
01:31:00.000 You know, the hardliners, that's what it was.
01:31:04.000 And they passed it because in this cycle, the Republicans have the majority in the House.
01:31:09.000 And now they put that up and that's never going to pass in the Senate because we have control.
01:31:15.000 And then that kind of got sidelined.
01:31:19.000 And then when everything kind of came together, And that was the aid deal.
01:31:24.000 That was for Ukraine, for Israel and for China. 0.95
01:31:27.000 A lot of other stuff in there.
01:31:28.000 And then the Republicans tied the border to passing that.
01:31:35.000 And there were some people that were frustrated saying, hey, no, no, that's – Well, that's one of the more frustrating things about bills, is that you can take a bill about an issue, say energy or whatever, immigration, and attach a bunch of other stuff,
01:31:51.000 like support for foreign aid, support for specific wars, or whatever it is.
01:31:56.000 You could throw a bunch of stuff in there that really shouldn't be in there, and then you have these bills that are 2,000 pages long, and no one's really reading them.
01:32:05.000 Well, I thought it was reasonable.
01:32:07.000 I thought it was reasonable to have that conversation.
01:32:08.000 I'm like, yeah, let's have that conversation.
01:32:10.000 I mean, because for me, it was about security.
01:32:12.000 And for that aid bill, that was, for me, and I think that was our global war on democracy.
01:32:21.000 Right.
01:32:22.000 You know, whether it's Ukraine, whether it's in Israel and China, and clearly what their intent for China is on Taiwan.
01:32:28.000 And all that's coming.
01:32:30.000 And that's really what's under assault.
01:32:32.000 It's undeniable that democracy is under attack.
01:32:35.000 And that's why I'm like, hey, we've got to stand and we've got to push back against that.
01:32:38.000 And now, like, hey, We need to have a secure border.
01:32:42.000 So let's put everything together.
01:32:43.000 And we reached that.
01:32:45.000 We actually reached that.
01:32:46.000 And it took months.
01:32:47.000 It literally took months.
01:32:48.000 But give me your utopian version of it.
01:32:51.000 Like, let's assume that you could just get this passed.
01:32:54.000 What would you do?
01:32:55.000 What would you do to secure the border but also provide a pathway to people that want a better life?
01:33:03.000 It's only going to have to be a negotiating way that's palatable to both sides.
01:33:07.000 I understand that, but what would you do if you knew you could just get something through without this negotiation?
01:33:14.000 What do you think could be done?
01:33:15.000 What's the best version of it?
01:33:17.000 What's the utopian version for John Fetterman?
01:33:20.000 Well, again, I think eventually if you are living your best lives and you're following the law and you really just showed up because, hey, I have no path for a life that I would want for my kids.
01:33:34.000 To me, that's very American.
01:33:37.000 And remember what's in this.
01:33:38.000 What's inside the Statue of Liberty?
01:33:40.000 It's like, send us, you know, our tired, huddled masses, too.
01:33:45.000 It wasn't just, hey, send in the PhDs and those kinds of things.
01:33:50.000 I mean, that's what really made our nation.
01:33:52.000 And, you know, the steel industry, the steel industry, you know, in my part of the state, that came from, it was European.
01:33:57.000 It was all kinds of immigrants.
01:33:59.000 They all came in.
01:34:00.000 They couldn't build the houses fast enough.
01:34:02.000 And that was all Yeah.
01:34:30.000 You all started the same kind of a process.
01:34:32.000 It's inevitable.
01:34:33.000 That's the enduring truth.
01:34:35.000 And that's what made America special and that made us make us strong.
01:34:38.000 I agree with you.
01:34:39.000 So, but what could physically be done to secure the border?
01:34:43.000 I mean, the wall was sort of dismissed during the Trump administration, but it was also discussed during the Obama administration.
01:34:50.000 Even Bill Clinton talked about the importance of having secure borders.
01:34:54.000 What could be done physically to secure the border?
01:34:59.000 Yeah, well, again, because that becomes like a third rail.
01:35:05.000 We can't talk about this.
01:35:06.000 I understand that politically, but let's just assume that that's not an issue.
01:35:11.000 What would you want to do?
01:35:14.000 It's like I would want to make sure that we first we have to acknowledge the truth.
01:35:19.000 It's like immigration has been an issue because America is an amazing country and they're coming from broken countries where they've all recognized that there's not a meaningful path for them to have a quality of life and they're willing to risk their lives and sometimes they even drown and it's like I can't imagine turning Could you imagine turning your children over to a coyote? 0.99
01:35:41.000 If you're trying to leave, imagine in Pennsylvania, it's like walking to North Carolina with your kids on your back.
01:35:51.000 These are desperate kinds of situations.
01:35:54.000 And it wasn't an invasion in that sense.
01:35:56.000 It was just people wanting to have a part of the American dream.
01:36:00.000 100%.
01:36:00.000 And acknowledging where that's at, and it needs to have a path.
01:36:03.000 Otherwise, you're going to have to round up, and that's not realistic, and there's not the resources, and that's going to be incredibly disruptive, and it's going to be damaging economically as well, too.
01:36:14.000 So how do you provide a pathway while also a security— How do you provide a pathway while also securing the border?
01:36:25.000 Well, to me, I think we can, you know, chew gum and walk at the same time on this.
01:36:31.000 And it's not going to be perfect.
01:36:32.000 It's going to be messy.
01:36:34.000 And it's not going to be...
01:36:36.000 Right.
01:36:36.000 But what would that look like?
01:36:39.000 Whether there's actually a barrier or, you know, hiring, you know, thousands and thousands of more agents and whatever that it takes on that.
01:36:47.000 And it's like the best border deal in that situation is the best one that can pass.
01:36:55.000 Because otherwise, if I could wake up with a perfect head of hair, it's like practicing the possible, and we were as close as we've ever gained in years and years, and that never came into place.
01:37:12.000 I understand what you're saying, that it has to pass.
01:37:15.000 But what I'm saying is, imagine that wasn't the case.
01:37:19.000 What could be done?
01:37:20.000 Like, if we could all agree, we put politics aside and say, you know what, everything John Fetterman is saying makes total sense.
01:37:28.000 We have to put that.
01:37:29.000 We do need a pathway for these people.
01:37:31.000 It is a beautiful part of America.
01:37:33.000 The reason why people come here in the first place is because it's the land of opportunity.
01:37:38.000 But yet we also have to keep Venezuelan gangs and prisoners from coming across and murderers and gang members and cartel.
01:37:45.000 Yeah, and we have to weed them out. 0.89
01:37:47.000 And we have to deport them.
01:37:50.000 Absolutely.
01:37:51.000 So how do you find them and how do you deport them? 0.68
01:37:55.000 What's that?
01:37:56.000 How do you find them and how do you deport them? 0.77
01:37:58.000 Well, again, that's just like taking some kind of an inventory of, like, who's actually here on this?
01:38:03.000 And we have to figure out who's actually here on those kinds of a thing.
01:38:06.000 And there are going to be – statistically, that's a fact that out of X million people, for example, it's a fact that statistically that some – that things – terrible things are going to be – Perpetrated by those things.
01:38:21.000 And, you know, statistically, in some sense, that Native Americans, you know, like, not the American citizens, you know, and the criminality, if anything, the criminality is slightly higher, 1.00
01:38:37.000 you know, in immigration communities as well.
01:38:41.000 And some of the most pro-pro-American kinds of views, that's projected in those kinds of communities.
01:38:49.000 I mean, just like the community that brought my wife and their family to this country.
01:38:55.000 And that's kind of where we're at.
01:38:57.000 And I think what we're seeing now in this cycle, there are more and more Latinos that are changing their views on some of those.
01:39:04.000 They're like, hey, we do need We do need a secure border on that.
01:39:08.000 It's not necessarily assumed that because you are a member of a demographic that it's not necessarily consistent that it's going to be strong blue kinds of...
01:39:19.000 Well, we all want safety, right?
01:39:21.000 We all want safety.
01:39:22.000 We all want to minimize crime.
01:39:25.000 Everyone.
01:39:26.000 Of course, yeah.
01:39:27.000 So you want a secure border to keep criminals from coming over here.
01:39:32.000 That's the major impediment.
01:39:35.000 Of course.
01:39:36.000 And a secure border with more and more resources put on that.
01:39:42.000 But it's impossible to make sure that, of course, you're going to have members of the immigration community that are going to commit kinds of terrible kinds of crimes. 1.00
01:39:50.000 And you're going to see, and those are going to be talked about in the popular media as well.
01:39:56.000 It's undeniable.
01:39:57.000 I mean, they're incredibly tragic, and it's a fact.
01:40:02.000 And that's actually the truth of the American story.
01:40:05.000 Immigration made our nation, and there were hard truths, and we have a hard truth right now, and we need to have a secure border, and we have to find a way to celebrate Our immigrations and the kinds of what immigrations and the contributions that they made to this nation and also to weed out or to minimize the kinds of negative kinds of things and those kinds of resources because we can't possibly support an unchecked kind of a situation that we had and I described that. 0.87
01:40:33.000 If you had 300,000 people showing up at the border, well, that's the site of Pittsburgh in a month.
01:40:39.000 Where are they going to go?
01:40:40.000 How are we going to give them an American dream already?
01:40:44.000 Because they're all going to need certain kinds of resources.
01:40:47.000 And that should never be controversial to say that's not sustainable.
01:40:52.000 And if we want for every immigrant their American dream, it's impossible if it's unchecked like that. 0.98
01:41:00.000 And it shouldn't be controversial.
01:41:01.000 To anyone politically.
01:41:04.000 No, it's just reasonable.
01:41:05.000 What you're saying is reasonable.
01:41:07.000 What could be done and who do you think is going to do a better job to boost our economy?
01:41:17.000 Well, I think it's undeniable too.
01:41:19.000 And, you know, I'm certainly not going to discount some of the experience of some people that have been hit by eggs or other things or, you know, inflation.
01:41:30.000 But right now, our economy right now, it's really, it's the world's envy throughout all those things.
01:41:37.000 By any metric, it's our unemployment, the stock market, and, you know, the hundreds of thousands of new jobs that are being created through it, all those things.
01:41:48.000 And our inflation now has been kind of eased back into the check.
01:41:52.000 But it's undeniable that there was an incredible And inflation that hit certain kinds of families hard through those things.
01:42:00.000 And I think that the next kinds of wave, whether it's AI or those other kinds of innovations, whether that it's green energy or those kinds of a thing, that's going to continue to juice our economy.
01:42:16.000 Well, AI is a big fear, right?
01:42:18.000 Because AI is going to come with automation, and automation is going to come with removing jobs.
01:42:22.000 That is a challenge.
01:42:24.000 On my walk here, well, I didn't walk here, but I saw a Waymo.
01:42:27.000 A Waymo drove by me, and I'm like, wait a minute, there's no one in there.
01:42:30.000 No one in there.
01:42:31.000 There was no one in that car.
01:42:32.000 Did you see the traffic jam?
01:42:34.000 Yeah, that's the first time I've ever seen a car, and literally no human was in that vehicle.
01:42:40.000 And I was like, wow.
01:42:41.000 There's a bunch of them around Austin and there was a traffic jam in Austin where they all got together at an intersection and no one knew what to do.
01:42:48.000 All the robots were just like clogging up this intersection.
01:42:52.000 A lot of that came from Pittsburgh too and you would see those kinds of cars but it always had a human in there but that was the first time I saw like a robot car driving around in Austin and yes that creates there's a lot of dislocation that's possible.
01:43:06.000 And that's just the beginning.
01:43:07.000 It's going to be shipping.
01:43:09.000 It's going to be truckers.
01:43:10.000 I mean, that was a big issue with the longshoremen and the Teamsters that were going to go on strike.
01:43:15.000 Yeah, please, have some more water.
01:43:20.000 Thank you.
01:43:21.000 Welcome.
01:43:22.000 I mean, that was a big part of one of their demands, was that they see what's going on in China.
01:43:28.000 They see that they're using automation to completely control shipping yards, that it's all done with machines and computers now.
01:43:37.000 And this is going to displace a lot of people.
01:43:40.000 This is something that Andrew Yang talked about in depth when he was running for president because he was talking about the need for some kind of universal basic income to provide people with, you know, money and food and housing because jobs are going to be non-existent in a lot of different sectors,
01:43:57.000 a lot of different markets, a lot of different things that have traditionally been done by people, specifically driving.
01:44:03.000 Driving is going to be a gigantic one.
01:44:05.000 It's all going to be done by computers.
01:44:07.000 Yeah, well, I mean, universal guaranteed income, I'm not sure.
01:44:13.000 I don't know, because you're going to have to have a lot of resources to provide a lot of that.
01:44:18.000 And that creates all kinds of other issues and dynamic.
01:44:21.000 But I'm not afraid of technology, but it's also acknowledging that there are going to be kinds of changes in those things.
01:44:28.000 And I'm a big believer in technology takes us into a more productive kinds of economy, and they're going to help solve some of the challenges that we have in our society for those kinds of things.
01:44:40.000 But I think we have to find the perfect balance that we don't stifle innovation, but we also have to remember that there are going to be people that might be left behind or they're going to struggle.
01:44:51.000 I mean, hey, I was mayor for 13 days and I live in a community that was left behind by some of those things.
01:44:57.000 And now the steelworkers, the steelworkers.
01:44:59.000 I live across the street from the steel mill.
01:45:02.000 And then it was announced that Nippon was buying U.S. steel.
01:45:06.000 And basically, all those steelworkers, they were done.
01:45:10.000 You know, they used euphemisms saying, well, we're going to honor current labor deals.
01:45:16.000 That's a euphemism saying, as soon as that's up, you're done.
01:45:19.000 And then that's going to be, you know...
01:45:24.000 We're good to go.
01:45:28.000 We're good to go.
01:45:39.000 Coding is useless anyway, when AI, learning to code is going to be useless.
01:45:43.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:45:44.000 That's how quickly things change. 0.99
01:45:46.000 It's basically kind of like a fuck you, like good luck kind of thing. 1.00
01:45:50.000 Well, it's a dumb fuck you, too, because even when they said learn to code, like that was like, you know, they're saying A can learn to code. 1.00
01:45:57.000 Hey, I'm 55. I'm not going to learn how to read the code. 1.00
01:45:59.000 But here's the thing.
01:46:00.000 Even if you did, that's how quickly things change.
01:46:03.000 Even if you did, now they're telling kids learning coding in universities.
01:46:07.000 It's not necessarily going to be a pathway to a job because all coding is going to be done by artificial intelligence.
01:46:12.000 Yeah, well, but, you know, they never even told us that they were going to sell that.
01:46:17.000 And then a staffer sent me a picture on CNN saying that they're selling UST. I'm like, fuck that. 0.99
01:46:23.000 And so I just went up on my roof and I had a video saying, hey, I promise I'm going to do anything I can to jam that up. 0.99
01:46:30.000 And it's like, that's what we did.
01:46:32.000 And we worked with the White House.
01:46:34.000 And then suddenly all of that got jammed up.
01:46:36.000 And suddenly, I'm so surprised, wink on wink, but Nippon found...
01:46:41.000 Extra billions of dollars to make the kinds of upgrades to secure a future for those facilities in the Mon Valley.
01:46:48.000 And to me, it's about following the union way of life.
01:46:52.000 You know, to me, steel is national security.
01:46:55.000 And to me, If you turn your back on the working union families, I mean, it's like those are really hard to replace those things.
01:47:06.000 And so for me, two things are true at the same time.
01:47:09.000 You know, our economy has evolved.
01:47:11.000 But when we have an opportunity to stand for the union way of life and we can't ever just...
01:47:20.000 Outsource our steel industry like that.
01:47:23.000 I refuse to do that.
01:47:24.000 And that's why we're in that situation right now.
01:47:27.000 That it's like, hey, that's what's true about some of these industries.
01:47:32.000 One of the things that I was reading that was really crazy, and I'd love you to find out how much of this is accurate, Jamie.
01:47:37.000 One of the things was this guy was explaining how scrap metal in the United States is shipped to China.
01:47:46.000 Where they make things with it instead of making things here because and then we buy what they make with our scrap metal which seems to me kind of insane American manufacturing is a Significant problem that we faced and it was really highlighted during kovat right where there wasn't ships coming in because everything was kind of locked down for a while and people realize like hey So much of what we need,
01:48:14.000 particularly computer chips and medicine, so much of what we need is being made overseas.
01:48:22.000 I agree.
01:48:22.000 And that's why Congress came together and President Biden led the whole CHIPS legislation.
01:48:30.000 And it's like, we've got to make shit in America. 0.97
01:48:34.000 And it's like, of course, the future is in those kinds of industries and those things. 0.99
01:48:38.000 So we have to protect the American economy for that thing.
01:48:42.000 And that's a bipartisan kind of a push for that.
01:48:47.000 And COVID, that relieved a lot of vulnerabilities.
01:48:54.000 It's like, where a lot of these things come from?
01:48:58.000 But going forward on that, it's like we can never just surrender that American manufacturing, we can't assume and we can't allow that to turn completely outsourced.
01:49:11.000 No, it would be horrible, and it would be nice to bring things back.
01:49:15.000 And it's also, you know, one of the things we've been discussing a lot is that so many of the things that we need today, like particularly phones, are being made in an unethical way.
01:49:26.000 Like, we would never allow the working conditions that exist in these factories overseas Where American corporations are having their products made in a way that you would never legally be able to do in America, and yet they're doing this just to make more money.
01:49:42.000 Yeah, well, I mean, let's also talk about rare earth stuff.
01:49:48.000 The Chinese have strategically just snapped up that market.
01:49:53.000 I mean, that's really – that's a significant security issue.
01:49:55.000 We're going to have to – We're going to have to address that.
01:49:58.000 And thankfully, we have identified some large deposits.
01:50:02.000 I think it was Nevada, but rare earth kinds of minerals.
01:50:05.000 I mean, that's a serious security issue because the new economy and a lot of the new technology is going to depend on those kinds of incredibly, I think, a lot of kinds of minerals that some people have never even heard in their life have no idea why that's important.
01:50:20.000 Right.
01:50:20.000 And then oil as well.
01:50:22.000 I mean, we have significant oil reserves in the United States.
01:50:25.000 Apparently, we have more oil than other countries do.
01:50:27.000 It's just a matter of accessing it.
01:50:29.000 So are you in favor of drilling for oil and fracking and all these different things to...
01:50:34.000 Yeah, 100%.
01:50:35.000 And that's...
01:50:37.000 That's what's also true, is especially what happened after Russia invaded.
01:50:45.000 And it was very clear that Europe had, have Russians kind of by the short hairs, that a lot of their Europe was, they were dependent on some of the Russian gas.
01:50:57.000 That's a fact too.
01:50:59.000 And, you know, it's also what's true is that fossil fuels are part of our energy stack.
01:51:07.000 Our energy has to evolve, whether that's hydrogen or nuclear.
01:51:11.000 Now, even nuclear, that conversation is re-emerging.
01:51:14.000 I grew up in South Pennsylvania.
01:51:17.000 Maybe you've heard of Three Island.
01:51:20.000 Sure, Three Mile Island.
01:51:21.000 I had to evacuate.
01:51:22.000 Did you really?
01:51:23.000 Yeah, I had to evacuate.
01:51:24.000 Wow.
01:51:25.000 Because they could have turned, you know, we could have never returned.
01:51:29.000 I mean, that was really tense.
01:51:31.000 Now they're reopening that because Microsoft is going to buy the electricity because now that's going to be nuclear to run the data centers and those things.
01:51:41.000 It's an important conversation.
01:51:42.000 So if you are committed, and I think it's, you know, I do believe that you really have to make sure that nuclear is part of that conversation, too.
01:51:51.000 Because, you know, zero kinds of emissions, and that's dependable kinds of energy that doesn't depend on the wind or the sun.
01:52:00.000 But ironically, some people pretend that you have to have a conversation.
01:52:05.000 But, you know, for the foreseeable future, that fossil fuels are part of our stack.
01:52:10.000 And for me, energy security is very important.
01:52:16.000 You know, national security I mean, if we can't power our economy, then it's a significant risk for our economy and our American way.
01:52:27.000 And now, I think we're a net exporter of energy.
01:52:33.000 So I think that's a good thing.
01:52:35.000 I think that's a great way to be.
01:52:38.000 And it's being honest about that and the path forward.
01:52:41.000 And I think everything has to be on the table because we have to have a portfolio that produces the kinds of energy that we're going to need to power our economy.
01:52:52.000 Another significant issue that a lot of people are concerned about is government interference in online censorship and what was exposed during the Twitter files that the FBI had contacted the original owners of Twitter and instructed them that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation,
01:53:15.000 was trying to get I think?
01:53:32.000 That we're running these social media companies were being directly influenced by the federal government, and they were using this power to silence people from speaking out against certain things.
01:53:43.000 This is very concerning to a lot of people, this idea that the government would infringe on our ability to be whistleblowers, to expose issues that have been hidden from the American people because of greed and money and politics.
01:53:58.000 What are your thoughts on that?
01:54:02.000 Well, of course.
01:54:03.000 I mean, I'm a free speech kind of person.
01:54:06.000 And I think social media is kind of difficult to control.
01:54:11.000 There's a difference between misinformation or just outright lying, or it's an agenda of a foreign nation that's trying to sow all these kinds of sentiments and those kinds of things.
01:54:26.000 And it's kind of difficult to police all those things, and it's an ongoing kind of situation.
01:54:35.000 But I'm always going to try to err on the side of free speech.
01:54:38.000 And then there's incredibly more and more kinds of platforms, just like one I'm on right now talking about these kinds of things.
01:54:44.000 And I'm not, you know, clutching my pearls if there's having conversations that I may or may not agree or disagree on what's being talked about those things.
01:54:52.000 But I think people are also, there's also a level of responsibility to be, you know, to discern what you're hearing.
01:55:00.000 It's like, do I think that's true? 0.95
01:55:01.000 Or I think that's trash. 0.94
01:55:03.000 Or it's like those kinds of thing. 0.88
01:55:04.000 And just because always asking myself, in what I'm read, is that just true?
01:55:08.000 Or is there a perspective?
01:55:10.000 Where is it coming from?
01:55:11.000 Who's behind those kinds of a thing?
01:55:14.000 So, I mean, it's a difficult kind of what's the appropriate kind of balance.
01:55:18.000 But it's absolutely...
01:55:20.000 It's also a fact that there are bad actors behind some of those kinds of conversations or some of those kinds of misinformation as well, too.
01:55:30.000 And absolutely...
01:55:31.000 Incitement is not free speech and encouraging people for violence or those kinds of a thing.
01:55:39.000 I mean it's a terrible kind of balance.
01:55:43.000 It's dangerous, yeah.
01:55:44.000 But what the fear is that the government was interfering when you had 51 former intelligence agents that were testifying that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation.
01:55:56.000 When it seems pretty clear that they knew that to not be true.
01:55:59.000 And that Twitter actually listened to these people.
01:56:02.000 And they did block that.
01:56:03.000 And it did probably have a significant impact on the 2020 election.
01:56:08.000 Yeah.
01:56:09.000 Well, but the other thing that had a significant impact was in 2020, I forget his name, but he had to investigate, you know, Clinton's about the emails.
01:56:19.000 Call me.
01:56:19.000 Yeah, like, you know, two weeks out.
01:56:21.000 That was like the ultimate October surprise.
01:56:23.000 Right.
01:56:23.000 And that, undeniable, that had a significant impact as well, too.
01:56:26.000 That was the 2016, right?
01:56:28.000 Yeah, it absolutely did as well, too.
01:56:31.000 So, I mean, that's why.
01:56:32.000 There's both sides and they have agendas to suppress some kinds of a thing or to bring something to the front.
01:56:38.000 And it's undeniable that it can have an impact on that as well, too.
01:56:41.000 I never went down either of those rabbit holes, whether it was the Clinton emails or if it was the Hunter Biden's kind of laptop.
01:56:50.000 But it hasn't really changed overall the dynamic that in our cycles, the last three cycles, it's really – it's about – For me, it's about a referendum on what we want, a vision for America.
01:57:02.000 Is it a Trump kind of a vision, or do we have an alternative?
01:57:07.000 And I've always been very clear it's going to be incredibly close, and it's going to be incredibly, at times, very divisive.
01:57:14.000 And here we are now, and it's still back to a coin toss.
01:57:18.000 And I've always predicted that it would be, you know, even back to 2016 because, you know, we're really going to have a lot settled out before this election.
01:57:26.000 It's going to take America in a very two stark and distinctive kinds of directions.
01:57:31.000 What do you think about Elon Musk's idea of creating a government efficiency agency?
01:57:38.000 Well, hey, I flagged when Musk got involved.
01:57:44.000 I flagged that.
01:57:46.000 Anyone can look online, I can say that.
01:57:48.000 It's like, well, you know, endorsements and surrogacy doesn't really count for much.
01:57:54.000 It doesn't count for much and sometimes.
01:57:56.000 But, I mean, that was a significant increase.
01:58:01.000 And he's getting involved, and he's showing up at those kinds of events.
01:58:06.000 I mean, in some sense, I've said this publicly, that he's even a bigger kind of star than Trump can be.
01:58:12.000 And for some people in Pennsylvania, like, that's Tony Stark.
01:58:15.000 He's involved in undeniably kinds of important things, like SpaceX.
01:58:20.000 Or he was one of the original charter, he was on the charter of OpenIA.
01:58:28.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:58:46.000 That's going to resonate in some circles in Pennsylvania.
01:58:51.000 And I've worn that.
01:58:54.000 And acknowledging it, it's just like, hey, I know people and they admire him.
01:59:02.000 And you may not agree with his politics, but really it's impossible to ignore that he is going to have a level of an impact on that.
01:59:13.000 Yeah.
01:59:13.000 But what do you think about the idea of trying to make the government more efficient and that this hasn't been audited before?
01:59:20.000 And of course, I'm open to any kinds of ideas and all those kinds of things on all of that.
01:59:27.000 One side doesn't have a monopoly on good ideas or important kinds of issues that matter to them.
01:59:36.000 And it's like The choices and the kinds of things and how he's chosen to participate, especially and very personally in Pennsylvania.
01:59:44.000 I'm like, hey, here's where we are.
01:59:46.000 That's part of the dynamic here.
01:59:48.000 You know, calling it out and acknowledging that.
01:59:50.000 I'm not moving against that.
01:59:52.000 I'm not criticizing, whatever.
01:59:54.000 It's just like, hey, it's happening.
01:59:57.000 I think that's part of why things continue to get tighter, and that's kind of here where we are.
02:00:04.000 Well, I think what a lot of people are excited about with Trump is this possibility of change.
02:00:09.000 The Elon Musk edition is one of them, or RFK Jr. is another one, this idea of making America healthy again, removing additives from foods that have shown to be toxic that are illegal in other countries.
02:00:21.000 I mean, this is, I think, a significant issue that shouldn't be a partisan issue.
02:00:25.000 This should be something that we all should be concerned with.
02:00:28.000 Why do we have ingredients in our food that is illegal in a bunch of European countries because they found out that these things are dangerous?
02:00:37.000 I agree.
02:00:38.000 You know, go to McDonald's in, like, the UK. You know, the French fries has three ingredients.
02:00:44.000 Potatoes, salt, and I think maybe oil.
02:00:46.000 And look at what's in America's side on that.
02:00:50.000 It's much different.
02:00:50.000 I support that.
02:00:51.000 But if anything, more of – and I know your city that we're in now, Austin has an amazing food kind of scene.
02:00:59.000 And again, if anything, more of the crunchy, more liberal side.
02:01:03.000 We're on part of the whole organic kinds of a thing and more impurity and things.
02:01:07.000 I don't think that's an issue.
02:01:09.000 And honestly, I don't think that that's going to be the kind of mantle that somebody like RFK Jr., that's not his.
02:01:17.000 So I think having a more pure and safe and abundant kinds of food in our country, I absolutely support that.
02:01:24.000 And, you know, I'm selective what I feed my children.
02:01:29.000 I mean, when we were, you know, when I was a kid, it was like Velveeta, you know, like, hey, now we have real cheese.
02:01:35.000 Or did you ever have, like, Ecto Cooler, like that green, like, antifreeze kind of color of high C and some of the kinds of foods that we had when I was a kid.
02:01:46.000 That would be unthinkable kinds of now.
02:01:49.000 And I think the quality of our food and kinds of more impure, I think that's been an ongoing conversation.
02:01:58.000 And organic can't become elitist.
02:02:01.000 It can't be It can't be too expensive.
02:02:04.000 And I fully support making it more and more pure and more safe on that.
02:02:11.000 And more available.
02:02:12.000 And I would absolutely – I would celebrate if I could buy the same French fries that you get in the UK. I think there should – you don't need more than three – I have a buddy of mine who lives in Australia, and he came over to America, and he loves quarter pounders in Australia.
02:02:28.000 Because he said quarter pounders in Australia, it's grass-fed meat that's just fried with cheese in a bun.
02:02:34.000 And he said he got a quarter pounder over here. 0.99
02:02:36.000 He's like, what the fuck is this? 1.00
02:02:39.000 He said it tastes like shit. 1.00
02:02:40.000 It was just... 1.00
02:02:41.000 It was bland and it didn't taste...
02:02:44.000 Was it a royal with cheese?
02:02:46.000 I don't know what they call it in Australia, but he said it's grass-fed beef.
02:02:50.000 You get like, you know, they're not even feeding their cows grain.
02:02:54.000 Well, you know, a lot of the grass-fed beef in our nation are coming from Australia.
02:03:01.000 Which is crazy.
02:03:02.000 Yeah, that's a fact.
02:03:04.000 And I'm very pro-pro-American rancher. 0.98
02:03:06.000 Well, not only that, it's really fucked up because you could make it a product of America if you butcher it here. 0.94
02:03:14.000 So if you import cattle from Australia, say, and then you bring it to America, and then you cut it up and then package it, because you've cut it up and packaged it, it's now a product of America. 0.96
02:03:27.000 So you could write that on the label.
02:03:30.000 You know, I had Will Harris, who runs White Oak Pastures, which is a regenerative farm.
02:03:35.000 This guy spent 20 years and untold dollars changing an industrial farm that his family had and turning it into a regenerative farm.
02:03:44.000 And in doing so, provided people with a much more natural and healthy choice.
02:03:52.000 And he's also done a great job of exposing these practices.
02:03:56.000 Yeah, I mean, grass-fed beef.
02:03:59.000 I mean, I think that's very, in some sense, I mean, that absolutely supports better health.
02:04:05.000 I mean, I followed, before you even appeared on your podcast, Sean Baker.
02:04:12.000 Yeah.
02:04:13.000 You know, like, Carnivore.
02:04:16.000 And, you know, even those kinds of insights helped me personally and allowed me to kind of drop some weight through all those things.
02:04:23.000 It's like that's an important conversation, too.
02:04:27.000 But Democrats, some people think that we're declared a war on hamburgers and beef.
02:04:34.000 But we're definitely going to lose that.
02:04:36.000 They're going to lose that if that really becomes part of that.
02:04:40.000 I don't think that's Democrats.
02:04:42.000 I think that's very wealthy people that have a financial interest in feeding people fake meat.
02:04:47.000 That's what I think it is, and I think they've captured the system.
02:04:50.000 I said it pains me to agree with DeSantis, you know, because they passed the ban in that in Florida.
02:04:58.000 It pains me to agree with them.
02:04:59.000 But it's like, I mean, I would never feed that slop to my kids. 1.00
02:05:04.000 When you can buy, you know, quality American grass-fed American beef, like, I mean, that's what I purchased.
02:05:11.000 I used that at Costco.
02:05:12.000 I buy the three-pack of it and my oldest son, he knows how to prepare like his own ribeye and he makes that a part of like a healthy kind of diet.
02:05:30.000 Yeah, for sure.
02:05:32.000 What other issues do you think we should discuss before we wrap this up?
02:05:35.000 Is there anything else that's on your mind that you think is significant that needs to be discussed?
02:05:42.000 Oh, before we wrap up, I think we have a situation, whether it's the situation on Israel or there's a lot happening about the election right now.
02:05:55.000 But it's really a strange place in our nation right now.
02:06:00.000 But I promise you it's going to be, depending on whenever people hear this conversation, our world's going to be about to change or maybe has changed.
02:06:10.000 And so I just hope, though, I just hope, though, that we're going to be able to respond in a way for an order kinds of transfer of power and we are going to be heading into a more peaceful and a more productive and collaborative kind of direction throughout that.
02:06:28.000 But we're in an incredibly divisible place right now.
02:06:32.000 And I just want to be part of a conversation to make sure that we can be more constructive.
02:06:38.000 But right now, it's a difficult place right now, and we're coming down to a coin toss election.
02:06:47.000 Yeah, I agree.
02:06:48.000 I hope we can all relax and work together cooperatively.
02:06:54.000 Yeah.
02:06:55.000 Yeah.
02:06:56.000 Well, listen, man, thank you for being here.
02:06:58.000 I really appreciate it.
02:06:59.000 Thank you for taking the time to come here and talk.
02:07:01.000 It's been great to get to know you and have a conversation with you.
02:07:05.000 Hey, well, hey, thank you for having me.
02:07:07.000 As a fan, it's great to kind of visit, and so thanks for having me.
02:07:12.000 My pleasure.
02:07:13.000 All right, best of luck to you.
02:07:14.000 Thank you.
02:07:15.000 All right, bye, everybody.