Sen. Carl W. Kennedy (D-Massachusetts) joins the show to talk about a variety of topics, including how he got started in politics, his love of the band Metallica, and why he doesn t wear suits in public. He also talks about what it's like to have a stroke, and how it affects his ability to see and hear. And he explains why he wears eyeglasses in public, which is pretty cool, because he doesn't have much of an understanding of what it means to be an intellectual. And he's not the only one with a hard-to-hear hearing problem. Joe also explains how he's been able to use an iPad to see better and hear better, and explains why it's a good thing he can't see better than he can hear. And, of course, he talks about his love for Metallica and the band's new album "Losing It All." Joe Rogan is a standup comic, comedian, podcaster, writer, and podcaster. He's also the host of the podcast and hosts the show on Comedy Central's Comedy Bang! and is a regular contributor on Comedy Central s as well as . and , and , is a podcaster and host of , which is a podcast that does standup comedy. and has a podcast called in which he also hosts a live-up comedy show called The Joe Rogans Experience . What's the worst thing you can do? or that you can tell me what's going on in your head? and what s going on your brain is going to be the most important thing you should be listening to right now? What s going to make you want to do in the next episode of Comedy Bang on it? And what s your favorite thing you're going to do with your brain? or what s the best thing you re going to listen to in your brain right now and what you should do with that s your brain's hearing aid or your brain thinks you're listening to? Is that a question you're not getting any better than that right now, or are you listening to it right, and what's your brain can do right, right, or you're doing it right? is that right, you should listen to this right, are you doing it, or do you're watching it?
00:01:16.000And then that whole thing kind of got away of us.
00:01:20.000People assumed that there was a dress code issue there.
00:01:23.000And I'm like, no, I wasn't behind that.
00:01:25.000But, of course, everybody pointed at the dude that dresses like a slob.
00:01:30.000And then the whole nation just had like a meltdown like, oh my god, the Senate's on fire because I dress like a slob.
00:01:37.000But my life is just much better in D.C. that unless that I'm going to be on the floor, that I'm not going to be – you're never going to see me in a suit.
00:01:46.000And I think that's a more authentic kind of way that I live.
00:01:50.000And I don't judge anybody on how they dress or those things.
00:02:05.000And hoodies, it's like I don't have to iron that shit.
00:02:08.000You know, so it's just like easy, it's comfort, and it's like, I just feel like that's, I mean, and if somebody judge me, and people have said that, but it's like I'd rather have somebody know, and I promise you, a lot of people and dudes, especially in western Pennsylvania,
00:02:25.000love to wear suits all year, I mean, excuse me, shorts all year, and dress like that, but to me it's about comfort and practical.
00:05:00.000But I'm just trying to understand what is going on with the captioning because you can hear, but so there's some sort of a disconnect between hearing and understanding.
00:07:54.000And then they hotlined me over to the hospital.
00:07:58.000And I wouldn't have survived if we were in a different – I mean, there's parts of Pennsylvania, and that's part of the tragic, that if I wasn't close to the kinds of hospital that I was, it's 100% that I wouldn't have survived that.
00:08:13.000And it got me there in enough time, and they were able to, there was an expert there.
00:08:18.000And I actually had, I met that doctor that literally saved my life.
00:10:27.000But I had to decide by August 15th, and that's my birthday, ironically, that if I step down by then or before, then they're going to have to find somebody to replace me on the primary, and that was going to be my dropout day on that primary.
00:14:39.000I mean, I had, for the first time in my life, and I hope it's the last time that I'm confronted by this idea that the doctors weren't able to provide any kinds of certainty, or it's like, oh yeah, man, you're going to be okay, or things are going to be okay.
00:15:00.000Well, I mean, it was afib, and my heart weakened.
00:15:05.000And the stress of the primary and on the ongoing kinds of issues, it was already weakened about that issue earlier, and everything kind of came together, and I guess my heart deteriorated to the point where that caused the clot.
00:15:21.000And then the clot, that's what nearly took my life.
00:16:56.000Like, he had been in trouble for talking about miracle diet remedies that weren't miracles at all, and I believe he got brought in front of Congress.
00:17:05.000So it was a little odd that that guy was running for Senate at all.
00:17:52.000He was an amazing kind of surgeon, a celebrity.
00:17:56.000And then he turned his career into like on TV. And then he started to pitch more kinds of questionable kinds of things and kind of bullshit kind of stuff.
00:18:05.000And I don't understand why somebody would change his reputation.
00:18:10.000I mean, he was really revered in that.
00:18:13.000And I would have been comfortable to him operate on me.
00:21:53.000I don't understand why some incredibly wealthy dudes will spend tens and tens of millions of dollars just to take that.
00:22:02.000And I try to tell people there's no glamour here.
00:22:06.000I just talked about that in an interview.
00:22:08.000Do you think he wanted to become president and this was like a step to being president?
00:22:13.000I guess everybody wants the Iron Throne, I get, but it's really not.
00:22:17.000But it also, it's a different kinds of skills, and it really doesn't transfer over very well on that.
00:22:26.000But right now in Pennsylvania, right now, David McCormick, Connecticut man, Connecticut man, he's running in Pennsylvania, and he lives in Connecticut, and he's incredibly wealthy.
00:22:37.000I think he's worth three or four hundred million dollars, and he's spending the same race in Wisconsin.
00:22:45.000And really, that's an important conversation that the real problem in American politics for me is Citizens United and unlimited money.
00:22:57.000When they decided that money is speech, and now that turns the whole thing incredibly damaging.
00:23:05.000Right now, there's been at least more than half a billion dollars, half a billion dollars on the table in Pennsylvania just for president, not just the Senate races and other House states.
00:23:18.000And I was the most, at least at that point, was the most expensive Senate race in history.
00:23:22.000And it was over 300 $330 million for that one seat.
00:23:29.000And all of those dollars, they're spent to destroy and tear you apart.
00:23:36.000And then Fox News, I was their top target for four months.
00:23:41.000And social media, and I stayed out of that.
00:23:44.000I didn't enjoy, but social media, all the conservative influencers, everything.
00:24:19.000But the kinds of terrible things and those kinds of very personal things.
00:24:24.000And it just got incredibly ugly in a way.
00:24:28.000Yeah, that has got to be a terrible experience.
00:24:32.000To realize that there's so much money being spent just to attack you and that you're a part of this very, very large and corrupt machine that's going after you just because they want to control the state.
00:24:44.000And it's a giant swing state, of course.
00:26:30.000And until we have unlimited money, it's going to get more and more mean, personal, and expensive.
00:26:37.000And if you look at the billions of dollars that's spent, how what we could have done for our society, the kinds of reels that we could build And other things if we didn't spend all those money to tear each other apart.
00:26:52.000Yeah, it's very strange, and it sets a terrible tone for the rest of the country.
00:26:57.000Because these races, even though when they're over, people go back to a certain level of civility, it's already been established that this is on the table.
00:27:08.000These personal attacks, this evil, vicious propaganda, taking things out of context, conflating people's words.
00:27:19.000You take a quote, take it out of context, clip that shit, put $10 million behind that, and that's in front of millions of eyeballs right there spontaneously on that.
00:31:23.000And that really kind of set the stage to run for lieutenant governor a couple years later after 2016. But 2016, though, that was where America met Donald Trump.
00:31:34.000And I was early, you know, Turning the alarm off, saying, hey, we have to be concerned here.
00:31:41.000Like, you know, Trump has connected with people in ways that it's like we have to be concerned.
00:31:48.000And I'll never forget, it was June in 2016, and I was a surrogate for Clinton.
00:31:55.000And Trump announced, hey, I'm showing up in a town called Manessin, which is a small town.
00:32:48.000And they made the mistake of just showing up in Philadelphia, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, and assumed that they were going to be okay, but a lot had slipped.
00:32:58.000And now the margins, Trump created margins that were unheard.
00:33:05.000Like, you know, we referred to them as Romney margins.
00:33:07.000So in other words, you have red counties, and Romney would cover those by about 60 to 65%.
00:33:49.000When you were running during 2016, what were you trying to accomplish?
00:33:55.000What did you want to do that you felt like you could uniquely provide a service for?
00:34:03.000Well, I just think it was just different.
00:34:06.000I'm like, hey, I was running for about Forgotten Places.
00:34:10.000People where America's turned their backs on them and talking about those kinds of important issues like living wage, abandoning the industrial parts of America.
00:34:23.000Some people watching what things have been left behind in places like Braddock, it's astonishing.
00:34:31.00090% of people left and 90% of the buildings are gone.
00:34:35.000And that whole region has just been...
00:35:24.000And, you know, my colleague and one that was just here, Senator Vance.
00:35:29.000I mean, we were both in the same cycle.
00:35:31.000We both ran in 22. So we both there for less than two years.
00:35:36.000And it's really based on seniority, and it's just kind of like, hey, get on the end of that line.
00:35:42.000So you are a freshman, and your influences, at least in the institution, are limited in some sense.
00:35:50.000But if you have a bigger platform, and I did, and I try to have those kinds of impacts and having those conversations.
00:35:56.000But my first couple of First half of that first year, that was a little, took a different detour because, you know, I was dealing with depression.
00:36:10.000I was in depression and I realized that I was in a bad place.
00:36:14.000So having to make those kind of choices and I signed myself in to Walter Reed to get help because the depression and so I think it's an important conversation.
00:36:27.000And I knew, I thought at that time it could be politically, it could be difficult.
00:36:38.000So the impact I've had, I never fully expected that that voice would break through.
00:36:45.000And I'm in contact with people constantly saying, thank you for talking about this.
00:36:50.000I chose to get help, or I chose not to follow that path on self-harm.
00:36:57.000And so I've had active conversations with members of Congress or fathers with younger kids, and they're like, hey, can you please talk?
00:37:05.000And I do that, and I'm happy to talk to anybody.
00:37:08.000And so that's a way I've had an impact through all of that and also my voice through after what happened on 10th, 7th, October 7th.
00:37:18.000And I've decided I was going to be a very consistent voice for Israel through that.
00:37:24.000So that's why kind of like the platform, but in terms of if anyone's being honest, whether it was Senator Vance or any kinds of freshman senators.
00:37:33.000It's very limited because otherwise there's people that have been there for 25-30 years.
00:37:38.000They're the ones that are the chairman and if you're a minority party, you have incredibly limited kinds of ability to move an agenda.
00:37:48.000So the depression thing, I think it's very important that you talked about that.
00:37:54.000I think transparency is something that people really appreciate.
00:37:59.000So many people suffer from depression.
00:38:00.000It's such a normal part of being a human being.
00:38:04.000And for a guy like you, who's a senator, who's already gone through being attacked, already gone through all these horrible things that they said about you while you were recovering from a stroke, It takes a lot of courage to come out and discuss that.
00:38:26.000But it is courage because you know you're going to be publicly attacked and it's a vulnerable point.
00:38:32.000But I think it's not because I think so many people suffer from it.
00:38:36.000I think there's courage in coming out and talking about it openly and realizing that people are going to use it as an attack vector and saying, you know what?
00:38:59.000You know, you might be a place in your life that you've actually kind of won, but depression lies to you and it convinces you that you've lost.
00:39:07.000And my depression got far more worse after I won.
00:40:13.000But I was like, I have to be honored about that and honest.
00:40:19.000And people, that really resonated with people.
00:40:22.000I think the first person, I was the first politician, especially at that level, talking about self-harm.
00:40:29.000And, you know, if people that are suffering, people that, I mean, you have a huge audience, I'm willing to bet plenty of them are suffering from that or looking through those kinds of issues.
00:40:48.000And I'm not an expert, but if you promise yourself to stay in that game, stay in that game, that you already, you know, you're almost guaranteed to get better because I promise you it will get better.
00:40:59.000And I was at the point where I was really, you know, in a very dark place and I stayed in that game and I am staying in front of you right now and having this conversation.
00:41:10.000And so that's what I try to tell everybody, whether they're listening today or in other times when I've had that.
00:41:17.000It's an honest conversation, but it is a red and blue conversation, and it's a rural and urban or suburban conversation.
00:41:28.000I've had conversations with teenagers, you know, with their parents, and they've even tried to take their lives.
00:41:34.000And I can't think of anything much more tragic than especially a young person taking their lives over some of the things that...
00:41:40.000And I never thought that voice would penetrate, but it did.
00:41:47.000And that's why I'm willing to have that conversation.
00:41:50.000Well, apparently it's very common for people that undergo major surgery to have depression afterwards.
00:41:58.000And there's a bunch of physiological reasons for that, they believe.
00:42:03.000My friend, Dr. Mark Gordon, who's done a lot of work on traumatic brain injuries and depression amongst athletes and soldiers, he did a lot of research on that.
00:42:12.000And one of the things that they found is that people that Undergo like a long period of anesthesia and either heart surgery or any kind of major surgery.
00:42:23.000There's a disruption of your endocrine system afterwards that leads people to be just weary and broken down.
00:42:32.000And I could imagine that along with the Senate race and all the other chaos and all the stresses involved with that, it plays a significant factor.
00:42:41.000Well, I'm sure it must have been a factor.
00:43:39.000It's like I've made a terrible mistake.
00:43:40.000And you hit the water going 75 miles an hour and it's very against chance of surviving, but he did.
00:43:49.000And now he became obsessed with this idea, and he looked out for everyone that survived.
00:43:54.000And about 45 people out of 1,800 people that have jumped over, they survived.
00:43:59.000And it was unanimously people immediately like, oh my god, I want to live, I want to live, I want to live.
00:44:05.000And not one single person thought, well, I wish I was more successful.
00:44:10.000So I try to put that forward, and I can't imagine how difficult because They had children the same age mind and trying to explain to a 10-year-old son, like, why did daddy leave?
00:44:36.000It's about trying to get away from that.
00:44:39.000People that are suffering from depression, if anyone's been there, it's like your mind is on fire.
00:44:46.000And you just want to get away from that.
00:44:48.000Please, I need relief from that kind of a thing.
00:44:50.000And every now and then you have kind of like the eye of the hurricane where you finally thought maybe things could get better, but it roars back in and it's like you get back to that very dark place.
00:45:02.000And I just tell everybody, I'm begging you, stay in that game.
00:47:14.000That's really what, like, every person needs to have, like, that emergency, I call that, like, an emergency break.
00:47:23.000It's like, you know, you're out of control.
00:47:25.000You know, you're having the darkest conversation you'll have with yourself, and you have to have something to stop that.
00:47:31.000Otherwise, you're going to go over the edge.
00:47:34.000And everyone needs to have that, whatever that is, whether it's your family, whether it's your wife or your husband, or whether it is, or that there has to be some...
00:50:59.000After we announced that we're signing in, and there were news trucks outside their house, and And they had the trauma of thinking that dad could have lost after the stroke and now he is, it's just, it's put them through so much.
00:51:15.000And that's why I was convinced that they probably don't want me around.
00:51:19.000And then I made the stupid mistake of, I went on social media and things, I'm like, and just, I read some of that shit.
00:51:29.000I mean, it's just, it's just, oh my god.
00:51:33.000Millions and millions of views and videos and it's just like, you know, going after my family and saying, you know, hey, he's a vegetable.
00:51:43.000He's, you know, he's a retard and, you know, sling blade and all kinds of things.
00:52:16.000Yeah, well, I mean, it's like if I have $100 million to convince you that you're a terrible person and you're the worst thing ever, and that inspires a lot of people, and hey, that's the mission.
00:52:28.000It's like he clearly, he must be those things.
00:54:14.000And some people, like if you're in a safe place, In a safe state or a safe seat, you, and especially if you have the resources and they're incredibly wealthy people, they buy a house and they move their life there.
00:54:29.000So you're able to kind of things, but like I don't have those resources and I'm in a very, very, the ultimate purple.
00:54:37.000And so I spend more than 50% of my time away.
00:54:47.000But I promise you, there's no glamour in that.
00:54:52.000Well, there's certainly no glamour if you're honest.
00:54:55.000But I think there's a lot of people that look to certain members of the government that have jobs that pay $150,000, $170,000 a year, but somehow or another acquire hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of their career Usually through some kind of insider trading.
00:55:30.000Well, no, we should have the kind of legislation to make sure that you're not – like if you are on Congress, you shouldn't have any kinds of stocks because you are going to be passing kinds of laws, et cetera, et cetera, that you have to separate that.
00:55:44.000They really shouldn't be a part of that kind of a thing.
00:55:52.000All of us, we have to have our wealth and all that there.
00:55:56.000And if I'm not the poorest, I'm probably the bottom five.
00:56:03.000And other people there are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
00:56:07.000So we can't have that situation where if you're going to be involved on those kinds of legislation, that you can't be enriched by Those kinds of, and there has to be some kind of influence.
00:58:08.000Well, I strongly feel that the internet should remain the way it is in terms of people being able to post on social media anonymously if they so choose.
00:58:19.000But the problem with that is it can be captured by money, and it can be captured by these enormous groups that have bought farms, whether it's state actors, whether it's other countries, other nations that are doing that to try to attack our system and to try to promote certain narratives,
00:58:40.000or whether it's our own country itself doing it, because I think we do it, too.
00:58:45.000And I think that PACs do it, and it's just...
00:59:06.000I think that's your responsibility, especially if you're an elected leader, to...
00:59:13.000Be challenged, to challenge yourself on the ideas.
00:59:16.000And it's like, clearly, one side doesn't have all the answers, and the other side can't be 100% wrong.
00:59:21.000And it's just like being challenging and living or taking in other kinds of perspectives.
00:59:28.000I think that's a responsibility, because otherwise, if you only just cocoon yourself into...
00:59:34.000And it's just, it turns into a gigantic circle jerk, and that's why it just turns people to just kind of dig in, and it's like, hey, you know, the problem is them, and we have to...
01:00:21.000What they uncovered, what they were doing was using, this was like during the 2016 election, using social media and it was a lot of Russian troll farms and troll farms in other countries.
01:01:00.000The appeal is that people think that this system is completely rigged and it's captured by money and special interests and enormous corporations and that here's a guy who's outside of this system completely and the evidence of that is how the system turned against him.
01:03:08.000And it was kind of like, it was an absurd.
01:03:11.000I mean, when I was in grad school, that was like put up as like, well, I mean, people enjoyed that.
01:03:17.000And now that became a term in politics saying, oh, we affect even President Obama's like, hey, we all want to secretly go full Bullworth, full Bullworth.
01:03:27.000And but but that's what really he channeled in where he would say, You know, it's kind of like he projects kind of like, well, I don't give a fuck, and just say all those kinds of a thing.
01:03:37.000And people have responded to those kinds of things.
01:03:40.000And, you know, a lot of people, that's the bug.
01:03:45.000But you have to understand that for enough people, that's the feature.
01:03:52.000And whatever that is, it describes a brand that, you know, it's not, I don't admire that, but you still have to kind of marvel at the level to say crazy kinds of things.
01:04:09.000Well, I guess maybe we're both old enough to remember when George, in the George Bush, Al Gore, he's like...
01:05:13.000It's the polish of speaking like a congressman, like a senator, like a presidential candidate.
01:05:21.000But it's this kind of bullshit way of communicating that's inauthentic, that even though it's effective, even though it's polished and smooth, people never get a sense of who that person is as a human being.
01:05:41.000There doesn't seem to be this disconnect between a human being and the thoughts.
01:05:48.000You might not agree with him, you might think he's crass or rude, but at least you know that he's the guy that's talking, these are his thoughts, and people trust that way more than they trust someone who's, you know, polished but full of shit.
01:06:37.000It's actually I'm very committed and I really do care.
01:06:40.000But I think people are, you know, like, I think authenticity, that's the last, that's really, that's one of the last meaningful currency in this shitty business.
01:06:50.000So I was having a conversation this morning with a friend of mine, and we were talking about voter ID, and he was shocked that you don't need voter ID in, I believe, it's 15 states.
01:07:04.00015 states require no ID. I think it's 24 or 25 states require ID, but only, I think, 11 of them require you to have photo ID. This is a weird one in this election that I've tried to look at.
01:08:02.000It's like, and usually, it's kind of local kinds of communities and people, they either know that person or it's not, it's never going to be organized in a point where you can pack a box or you can't determine that kind of a thing.
01:08:19.000It's just that, you know, after election, election, election, it's just never been, you know, in 2020, out of over millions of votes in 2020 in Pennsylvania, there were five or six You know, once.
01:08:31.000And what happened is that they turned out to be the Republicans, and they used their deceased, their dead moms, you know, to vote for Trump through that.
01:08:43.000And they were all caught, they were charged, they were convicted, and all those votes.
01:08:51.000That would have been six votes out of all of it.
01:08:54.000Do you think that that's the only voter fraud that exists?
01:08:58.000Well, people also, we need to remind that, you know, the voter database, they're cross-checks against deaths and, you know, who's moved or what's their status are.
01:09:08.000Like, you know, all that's cross-checked back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.
01:09:11.000So it's a living kinds of thing where it's continually updated and all of those kinds of things.
01:09:50.000But other than making things a little bit easier to cheat...
01:09:57.000What would be the logic behind not having voter ID? I've tried to look at this as objectively as possible.
01:10:05.000I can't find any reason why you would not require someone to be able to prove that they're the person they say they are when they're putting in their ballots.
01:10:13.000It's not a hill that I'm saying we have to die on that, too, again.
01:10:17.000But it's a vulnerability, clearly, right?
01:10:21.000Well, it's also – some people may not believe that in a lot of these kinds of communities, ones that I live in, for some people, they don't have an ID necessarily or they've lost it or whatever.
01:10:36.000But you need one to get a driver's license.
01:11:59.000Yeah, this is the thing that just happened.
01:12:01.000And unfortunately, once he's voted, even though he was not eligible to vote, his vote is going to count.
01:12:08.000Texas removed some, I mean, there's lawsuits about it, but Texas removed somewhere in the neighborhood of a million people that were ineligible to vote, that could have been voting.
01:12:18.000Well, everybody knows who's voting and who's not voting on that.
01:12:25.000Well, and remember, also, too, Dominion.
01:12:28.000People on the Trump side, they all said that Dominion's was corrupt, and that cost Fox $800 million.
01:12:38.000They had to pay $800 million about defamation for saying that it was rigged, or if it's not, and there was no evidence, and they had to just acknowledge that That this was the honest thing.
01:12:49.000But Dominion is a computer program, right?
01:13:17.000It was a documentary during the Bush administration and one that they showed that the Diebold machines – and Diebold was a significant contributor, I believe, to the Republican Party.
01:13:29.000They showed in the documentary that you could use a third-party input to change the results.
01:13:35.000And they actually proved it in the documentary, and people were pointing to this as, oh my god, the Republicans are cheating, and the Republicans have used this to try to rig the election for George Bush.
01:13:48.000I'm not accusing – I've never accused the Republicans.
01:13:53.000Well, in 2016. No, I'm not saying you did.
01:13:57.000What I'm trying to say is that this is not a thing that's only been leveled against the Democrats using it.
01:14:05.000This is not like an accusation that only applies to Democrats.
01:14:09.000In the past, a similar accusation was applied to Republicans.
01:14:13.000Yeah, well, I mean, I think we can all agree that we need to have a, just like our border, we need a secure border and we need an absolutely secure voting system as well, too.
01:14:24.000I mean, that should never be considered controversial.
01:14:30.000A lot of Democrats were outraged that we lost.
01:14:34.000But I never claimed that there was – the Republicans cheated or do all those kinds of things.
01:14:41.000And it's like the problem for accusing that there was voter fraud is that if you don't like the outcome – Right.
01:14:49.000You know, so – and I have never witnessed an election, if they've won, that they claimed, well, there might be – you know, we might have cheated.
01:15:27.000Like what kind of issues are you talking about?
01:15:29.000You're talking about people letting people in in order to get votes?
01:15:35.000Well, I don't think there's that level of kinds of organization.
01:15:40.000But there is an organization that's moving these people to swing states.
01:15:44.000There's a significant number of these people that are illegal immigrants that have made their way to swing states.
01:15:51.000And then there's been calls for amnesty.
01:15:54.000There's been calls for allowing these people to have a pathway to citizenship and allow them to vote.
01:16:01.000The fear that a lot of people have is that this is a coordinated effort to take these people that you're allowing to come into the country then you're providing them with all sorts of services like food stamps and housing and setting them up and then providing a pathway to amnesty and then you would have voters that would be significantly Voting towards the Democrats because they're the people that enabled them to come into the country in the first place and provided them with those services.
01:16:31.000This is a big fear that people have and that you're rigging this system and that this will turn all these states into essentially locked blue like California is.
01:16:43.000Well, you know, immigration is always going to be a tough issue in our nation.
01:16:50.000You know, I had, as a professor in grad school, Alan Simpson.
01:17:39.000And that's – I mean he said that 25 years ago and that was absolutely true now that they had an opportunity to do a comprehensive border bipartisan and that went down because Trump – he declared that that's a bad deal after it was negotiated with the other side.
01:17:58.000But didn't that deal also involve amnesty, and didn't that deal also involve a significant number of illegal aliens being allowed into the country every year?
01:18:09.000So it was still the same sort of situation, and their fear is exactly what I talked about, that these people will be moved to swing states, and that that will be used to essentially rig those states and turn them blue forever.
01:18:24.000Well, I'm not really sure if that's what's in play.
01:18:29.000I think it's really important that we have to have an honest conversation.
01:18:33.000But doesn't that seem logical, though?
01:18:34.000If you have a significant number of people that are being moved into swing states that have come across the border illegally, and then you've provided them with all these services, you've provided them with food stamps, EBT, you've provided them with housing, You could, if you gave those people amnesty and allowed those people to vote,
01:18:52.000and it was very organized, you're talking about 75,000 votes over a few counties that switched everything over to the Republicans.
01:18:59.000You could see how you import 10 million people over the course of four years.
01:19:05.000Illegally, and then move a significant number of them to swing states, and then provide them with all these services, and then give them a path to citizenship, you could essentially rig those states.
01:19:17.000Undeniably, immigration is changing our nation.
01:19:20.000I mean, I haven't spent a lot of time in Texas, but it's very clear that immigration has remade Texas.
01:19:25.000And I think generally it's for a good thing.
01:19:28.000And like my wife, my wife's Brazilian.
01:19:30.000And her family was undocumented, and she was seven years old when she was brought here.
01:19:37.000And I'm the big pro-immigration guy that there was, but it also has to be true that we need a secure border.
01:19:47.000And we have to work this out, because we are pretending that you have millions and millions of people living in the shadow.
01:19:55.000And we have to work together and figure out a way to get forward because they're here.
01:19:59.000And it seems incredibly a difficult kind of logistics thing.
01:20:03.000And I think it's also un-American to round everybody up and the vast majority of them are just living legal lives and doing a lot of the jobs that other people here would never do.
01:20:56.000And this is the thing that's been said about Springfield, Ohio, that these Haitians that have moved to Springfield, Ohio, people are complaining about them.
01:21:02.000But the people that have employed these people are saying, listen, these people are taking jobs that other people that lived in this community don't want.
01:21:08.000They work very hard and they're very happy that they have this pathway to be in America now.
01:21:14.000I think most people that come here come here because they want a better life for their families.
01:21:18.000And America is essentially a country that was founded by immigration.
01:22:13.000And it's just like, you can be very pro-pro-border, like I am, or you can be very strict on immigration, but you don't have to demonize or try to turn a group of people in that they're eating your dog.
01:22:26.000Well, they're eating ducks and eating things.
01:22:29.000Look, I'm sure some people have done that.
01:22:46.000The pro side of it is you give a pathway to people that are from very unfortunate circumstances, and I think we would both agree, That if we were living in those countries and there was a pathway to citizenship in the United States, all you had to do was make it across the border.
01:23:18.000The best aspect of it is good people that are ambitious, that want a better life, which is how this country was founded.
01:23:24.000The worst aspect of it is Venezuelan gangs are taking over apartment buildings in Aurora, Colorado and San Antonio, Texas.
01:23:32.000That's the worst aspect of it is that they're letting in gang members.
01:23:36.000Venezuelans emptied out their prisons and essentially According to the president of Israel- Yeah, the marial boat lift, you know, the whole- Right, what happened in Cuba.
01:24:27.000America is America is one of the great hopes in the world.
01:24:31.000And that's why so many people want to come be a part of that.
01:24:33.000And that's why it has to have an effective border.
01:24:37.000And it's like, you know, we had a real issue here and we wanted to address that.
01:24:42.000And that's why, you know, my former professor said that you're never going to have the kind of a deal because it is useful for both sides to weaponize that and to demonize one side or turn the other thing in there because it's a serious, important issue.
01:24:58.000It's a political talking point that they're always going to use.
01:25:26.000You know, it's like they're parts of – they're parts.
01:25:29.000But what's contradictory is that, say, if you're coming from Canada or Europe and you're a highly skilled, college-educated person who wants to live in America and become a United States citizen – The path to citizenship is incredibly difficult.
01:25:49.000You have to show that you're doing something that Americans can't do.
01:25:54.000You have to be a person of significant talent or ability.
01:25:57.000There's something about you that we want you in here.
01:26:00.000Yet, if you just make it across the border and walk in, People want to give you amnesty, and they want to allow you a path to citizenship quickly.
01:26:07.000Without any of those hoops, you don't have to take tests, you don't have to go up for review.
01:26:12.000Not only that, but once you get here, once you apply for amnesty, there's a significant wait period where you're allowed to maintain your residence in this country.
01:26:22.000It's between seven and sometimes longer years.
01:26:25.000Yeah, we have to figure out what's the way to do all that.
01:26:28.000Well, that's kind of crazy, though, isn't it?
01:28:01.000And I'm saying, I... It's like a serious conversation requires serious people and the second – and that's when you talk about unlimited money and it's like suddenly you're like – I mean I had gigantic billboards saying Fetterman equals open borders and Fetterman – it's just like I get turned into – A Marxist.
01:28:28.000And it's just like, and of course, that was never true.
01:28:31.000And then when I had the opportunity, because, you know, as I'm a senator, and we have that kinds of legislation in front of me, I'm like, yes, we need to have a serious ones.
01:28:39.000And now people are like, we're shocked.
01:28:41.000They're like, oh, wait a minute, I thought they told us that he was all like bordering, opening up and whatever.
01:29:15.000And it's like, these are the kinds of, you know, like, parts of the times we've become too fragile, you know, like, oh, they're not allowed to talk about those things.
01:29:23.000You're not allowed to have these kinds of conversation.
01:29:24.000I never understood why that's really a problem.
01:29:30.000But it's like when people discover, it's like, well, hey, he seems to be kind of reasonable, or me, I disagree with some things, but he's not what $100 million, you know, trained me to think that that's what...
01:30:00.000I would have – for me, I would have started with the HR2 and there are elements that are – they're just not palatable to – there are members of my colleagues that they come from more deep blue states and that becomes – it's not palatable to some people.
01:30:23.000Well, I mean, it's just, it's got to have, you know, the best border deal is the only one that can pass.
01:30:33.000And, you know, HR2, HR2 was described as like, kind of like, you know, I joke, I call that the only fans list of what Republicans want for immigration.
01:31:28.000And then the Republicans tied the border to passing that.
01:31:35.000And there were some people that were frustrated saying, hey, no, no, that's – Well, that's one of the more frustrating things about bills, is that you can take a bill about an issue, say energy or whatever, immigration, and attach a bunch of other stuff,
01:31:51.000like support for foreign aid, support for specific wars, or whatever it is.
01:31:56.000You could throw a bunch of stuff in there that really shouldn't be in there, and then you have these bills that are 2,000 pages long, and no one's really reading them.
01:33:17.000What's the utopian version for John Fetterman?
01:33:20.000Well, again, I think eventually if you are living your best lives and you're following the law and you really just showed up because, hey, I have no path for a life that I would want for my kids.
01:35:14.000It's like I would want to make sure that we first we have to acknowledge the truth.
01:35:19.000It's like immigration has been an issue because America is an amazing country and they're coming from broken countries where they've all recognized that there's not a meaningful path for them to have a quality of life and they're willing to risk their lives and sometimes they even drown and it's like I can't imagine turning Could you imagine turning your children over to a coyote?
01:35:41.000If you're trying to leave, imagine in Pennsylvania, it's like walking to North Carolina with your kids on your back.
01:35:51.000These are desperate kinds of situations.
01:35:54.000And it wasn't an invasion in that sense.
01:35:56.000It was just people wanting to have a part of the American dream.
01:36:00.000And acknowledging where that's at, and it needs to have a path.
01:36:03.000Otherwise, you're going to have to round up, and that's not realistic, and there's not the resources, and that's going to be incredibly disruptive, and it's going to be damaging economically as well, too.
01:36:14.000So how do you provide a pathway while also a security— How do you provide a pathway while also securing the border?
01:36:25.000Well, to me, I think we can, you know, chew gum and walk at the same time on this.
01:36:39.000Whether there's actually a barrier or, you know, hiring, you know, thousands and thousands of more agents and whatever that it takes on that.
01:36:47.000And it's like the best border deal in that situation is the best one that can pass.
01:36:55.000Because otherwise, if I could wake up with a perfect head of hair, it's like practicing the possible, and we were as close as we've ever gained in years and years, and that never came into place.
01:37:12.000I understand what you're saying, that it has to pass.
01:37:15.000But what I'm saying is, imagine that wasn't the case.
01:37:56.000How do you find them and how do you deport them?
01:37:58.000Well, again, that's just like taking some kind of an inventory of, like, who's actually here on this?
01:38:03.000And we have to figure out who's actually here on those kinds of a thing.
01:38:06.000And there are going to be – statistically, that's a fact that out of X million people, for example, it's a fact that statistically that some – that things – terrible things are going to be – Perpetrated by those things.
01:38:21.000And, you know, statistically, in some sense, that Native Americans, you know, like, not the American citizens, you know, and the criminality, if anything, the criminality is slightly higher,
01:38:37.000you know, in immigration communities as well.
01:38:41.000And some of the most pro-pro-American kinds of views, that's projected in those kinds of communities.
01:38:49.000I mean, just like the community that brought my wife and their family to this country.
01:38:57.000And I think what we're seeing now in this cycle, there are more and more Latinos that are changing their views on some of those.
01:39:04.000They're like, hey, we do need We do need a secure border on that.
01:39:08.000It's not necessarily assumed that because you are a member of a demographic that it's not necessarily consistent that it's going to be strong blue kinds of...
01:39:36.000And a secure border with more and more resources put on that.
01:39:42.000But it's impossible to make sure that, of course, you're going to have members of the immigration community that are going to commit kinds of terrible kinds of crimes.
01:39:50.000And you're going to see, and those are going to be talked about in the popular media as well.
01:39:57.000I mean, they're incredibly tragic, and it's a fact.
01:40:02.000And that's actually the truth of the American story.
01:40:05.000Immigration made our nation, and there were hard truths, and we have a hard truth right now, and we need to have a secure border, and we have to find a way to celebrate Our immigrations and the kinds of what immigrations and the contributions that they made to this nation and also to weed out or to minimize the kinds of negative kinds of things and those kinds of resources because we can't possibly support an unchecked kind of a situation that we had and I described that.
01:40:33.000If you had 300,000 people showing up at the border, well, that's the site of Pittsburgh in a month.
01:41:19.000And, you know, I'm certainly not going to discount some of the experience of some people that have been hit by eggs or other things or, you know, inflation.
01:41:30.000But right now, our economy right now, it's really, it's the world's envy throughout all those things.
01:41:37.000By any metric, it's our unemployment, the stock market, and, you know, the hundreds of thousands of new jobs that are being created through it, all those things.
01:41:48.000And our inflation now has been kind of eased back into the check.
01:41:52.000But it's undeniable that there was an incredible And inflation that hit certain kinds of families hard through those things.
01:42:00.000And I think that the next kinds of wave, whether it's AI or those other kinds of innovations, whether that it's green energy or those kinds of a thing, that's going to continue to juice our economy.
01:42:41.000There's a bunch of them around Austin and there was a traffic jam in Austin where they all got together at an intersection and no one knew what to do.
01:42:48.000All the robots were just like clogging up this intersection.
01:42:52.000A lot of that came from Pittsburgh too and you would see those kinds of cars but it always had a human in there but that was the first time I saw like a robot car driving around in Austin and yes that creates there's a lot of dislocation that's possible.
01:43:22.000I mean, that was a big part of one of their demands, was that they see what's going on in China.
01:43:28.000They see that they're using automation to completely control shipping yards, that it's all done with machines and computers now.
01:43:37.000And this is going to displace a lot of people.
01:43:40.000This is something that Andrew Yang talked about in depth when he was running for president because he was talking about the need for some kind of universal basic income to provide people with, you know, money and food and housing because jobs are going to be non-existent in a lot of different sectors,
01:43:57.000a lot of different markets, a lot of different things that have traditionally been done by people, specifically driving.
01:44:03.000Driving is going to be a gigantic one.
01:44:05.000It's all going to be done by computers.
01:44:07.000Yeah, well, I mean, universal guaranteed income, I'm not sure.
01:44:13.000I don't know, because you're going to have to have a lot of resources to provide a lot of that.
01:44:18.000And that creates all kinds of other issues and dynamic.
01:44:21.000But I'm not afraid of technology, but it's also acknowledging that there are going to be kinds of changes in those things.
01:44:28.000And I'm a big believer in technology takes us into a more productive kinds of economy, and they're going to help solve some of the challenges that we have in our society for those kinds of things.
01:44:40.000But I think we have to find the perfect balance that we don't stifle innovation, but we also have to remember that there are going to be people that might be left behind or they're going to struggle.
01:44:51.000I mean, hey, I was mayor for 13 days and I live in a community that was left behind by some of those things.
01:44:57.000And now the steelworkers, the steelworkers.
01:44:59.000I live across the street from the steel mill.
01:45:02.000And then it was announced that Nippon was buying U.S. steel.
01:45:06.000And basically, all those steelworkers, they were done.
01:45:10.000You know, they used euphemisms saying, well, we're going to honor current labor deals.
01:45:16.000That's a euphemism saying, as soon as that's up, you're done.
01:45:19.000And then that's going to be, you know...
01:45:46.000It's basically kind of like a fuck you, like good luck kind of thing.
01:45:50.000Well, it's a dumb fuck you, too, because even when they said learn to code, like that was like, you know, they're saying A can learn to code.
01:45:57.000Hey, I'm 55. I'm not going to learn how to read the code.
01:47:24.000And that's why we're in that situation right now.
01:47:27.000That it's like, hey, that's what's true about some of these industries.
01:47:32.000One of the things that I was reading that was really crazy, and I'd love you to find out how much of this is accurate, Jamie.
01:47:37.000One of the things was this guy was explaining how scrap metal in the United States is shipped to China.
01:47:46.000Where they make things with it instead of making things here because and then we buy what they make with our scrap metal which seems to me kind of insane American manufacturing is a Significant problem that we faced and it was really highlighted during kovat right where there wasn't ships coming in because everything was kind of locked down for a while and people realize like hey So much of what we need,
01:48:14.000particularly computer chips and medicine, so much of what we need is being made overseas.
01:48:22.000And that's why Congress came together and President Biden led the whole CHIPS legislation.
01:48:30.000And it's like, we've got to make shit in America.
01:48:34.000And it's like, of course, the future is in those kinds of industries and those things.
01:48:38.000So we have to protect the American economy for that thing.
01:48:42.000And that's a bipartisan kind of a push for that.
01:48:47.000And COVID, that relieved a lot of vulnerabilities.
01:48:54.000It's like, where a lot of these things come from?
01:48:58.000But going forward on that, it's like we can never just surrender that American manufacturing, we can't assume and we can't allow that to turn completely outsourced.
01:49:11.000No, it would be horrible, and it would be nice to bring things back.
01:49:15.000And it's also, you know, one of the things we've been discussing a lot is that so many of the things that we need today, like particularly phones, are being made in an unethical way.
01:49:26.000Like, we would never allow the working conditions that exist in these factories overseas Where American corporations are having their products made in a way that you would never legally be able to do in America, and yet they're doing this just to make more money.
01:49:42.000Yeah, well, I mean, let's also talk about rare earth stuff.
01:49:48.000The Chinese have strategically just snapped up that market.
01:49:53.000I mean, that's really – that's a significant security issue.
01:49:55.000We're going to have to – We're going to have to address that.
01:49:58.000And thankfully, we have identified some large deposits.
01:50:02.000I think it was Nevada, but rare earth kinds of minerals.
01:50:05.000I mean, that's a serious security issue because the new economy and a lot of the new technology is going to depend on those kinds of incredibly, I think, a lot of kinds of minerals that some people have never even heard in their life have no idea why that's important.
01:50:37.000That's what's also true, is especially what happened after Russia invaded.
01:50:45.000And it was very clear that Europe had, have Russians kind of by the short hairs, that a lot of their Europe was, they were dependent on some of the Russian gas.
01:51:31.000Now they're reopening that because Microsoft is going to buy the electricity because now that's going to be nuclear to run the data centers and those things.
01:51:42.000So if you are committed, and I think it's, you know, I do believe that you really have to make sure that nuclear is part of that conversation, too.
01:51:51.000Because, you know, zero kinds of emissions, and that's dependable kinds of energy that doesn't depend on the wind or the sun.
01:52:00.000But ironically, some people pretend that you have to have a conversation.
01:52:05.000But, you know, for the foreseeable future, that fossil fuels are part of our stack.
01:52:10.000And for me, energy security is very important.
01:52:16.000You know, national security I mean, if we can't power our economy, then it's a significant risk for our economy and our American way.
01:52:27.000And now, I think we're a net exporter of energy.
01:52:38.000And it's being honest about that and the path forward.
01:52:41.000And I think everything has to be on the table because we have to have a portfolio that produces the kinds of energy that we're going to need to power our economy.
01:52:52.000Another significant issue that a lot of people are concerned about is government interference in online censorship and what was exposed during the Twitter files that the FBI had contacted the original owners of Twitter and instructed them that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation,
01:53:32.000That we're running these social media companies were being directly influenced by the federal government, and they were using this power to silence people from speaking out against certain things.
01:53:43.000This is very concerning to a lot of people, this idea that the government would infringe on our ability to be whistleblowers, to expose issues that have been hidden from the American people because of greed and money and politics.
01:54:03.000I mean, I'm a free speech kind of person.
01:54:06.000And I think social media is kind of difficult to control.
01:54:11.000There's a difference between misinformation or just outright lying, or it's an agenda of a foreign nation that's trying to sow all these kinds of sentiments and those kinds of things.
01:54:26.000And it's kind of difficult to police all those things, and it's an ongoing kind of situation.
01:54:35.000But I'm always going to try to err on the side of free speech.
01:54:38.000And then there's incredibly more and more kinds of platforms, just like one I'm on right now talking about these kinds of things.
01:54:44.000And I'm not, you know, clutching my pearls if there's having conversations that I may or may not agree or disagree on what's being talked about those things.
01:54:52.000But I think people are also, there's also a level of responsibility to be, you know, to discern what you're hearing.
01:55:20.000It's also a fact that there are bad actors behind some of those kinds of conversations or some of those kinds of misinformation as well, too.
01:55:44.000But what the fear is that the government was interfering when you had 51 former intelligence agents that were testifying that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation.
01:55:56.000When it seems pretty clear that they knew that to not be true.
01:55:59.000And that Twitter actually listened to these people.
01:56:09.000Well, but the other thing that had a significant impact was in 2020, I forget his name, but he had to investigate, you know, Clinton's about the emails.
01:56:32.000There's both sides and they have agendas to suppress some kinds of a thing or to bring something to the front.
01:56:38.000And it's undeniable that it can have an impact on that as well, too.
01:56:41.000I never went down either of those rabbit holes, whether it was the Clinton emails or if it was the Hunter Biden's kind of laptop.
01:56:50.000But it hasn't really changed overall the dynamic that in our cycles, the last three cycles, it's really – it's about – For me, it's about a referendum on what we want, a vision for America.
01:57:02.000Is it a Trump kind of a vision, or do we have an alternative?
01:57:07.000And I've always been very clear it's going to be incredibly close, and it's going to be incredibly, at times, very divisive.
01:57:14.000And here we are now, and it's still back to a coin toss.
01:57:18.000And I've always predicted that it would be, you know, even back to 2016 because, you know, we're really going to have a lot settled out before this election.
01:57:26.000It's going to take America in a very two stark and distinctive kinds of directions.
01:57:31.000What do you think about Elon Musk's idea of creating a government efficiency agency?
01:57:38.000Well, hey, I flagged when Musk got involved.
01:59:57.000I think that's part of why things continue to get tighter, and that's kind of here where we are.
02:00:04.000Well, I think what a lot of people are excited about with Trump is this possibility of change.
02:00:09.000The Elon Musk edition is one of them, or RFK Jr. is another one, this idea of making America healthy again, removing additives from foods that have shown to be toxic that are illegal in other countries.
02:00:21.000I mean, this is, I think, a significant issue that shouldn't be a partisan issue.
02:00:25.000This should be something that we all should be concerned with.
02:00:28.000Why do we have ingredients in our food that is illegal in a bunch of European countries because they found out that these things are dangerous?
02:01:09.000And honestly, I don't think that that's going to be the kind of mantle that somebody like RFK Jr., that's not his.
02:01:17.000So I think having a more pure and safe and abundant kinds of food in our country, I absolutely support that.
02:01:24.000And, you know, I'm selective what I feed my children.
02:01:29.000I mean, when we were, you know, when I was a kid, it was like Velveeta, you know, like, hey, now we have real cheese.
02:01:35.000Or did you ever have, like, Ecto Cooler, like that green, like, antifreeze kind of color of high C and some of the kinds of foods that we had when I was a kid.
02:01:46.000That would be unthinkable kinds of now.
02:01:49.000And I think the quality of our food and kinds of more impure, I think that's been an ongoing conversation.
02:02:12.000And I would absolutely – I would celebrate if I could buy the same French fries that you get in the UK. I think there should – you don't need more than three – I have a buddy of mine who lives in Australia, and he came over to America, and he loves quarter pounders in Australia.
02:02:28.000Because he said quarter pounders in Australia, it's grass-fed meat that's just fried with cheese in a bun.
02:02:34.000And he said he got a quarter pounder over here.
02:03:04.000And I'm very pro-pro-American rancher.
02:03:06.000Well, not only that, it's really fucked up because you could make it a product of America if you butcher it here.
02:03:14.000So if you import cattle from Australia, say, and then you bring it to America, and then you cut it up and then package it, because you've cut it up and packaged it, it's now a product of America.
02:05:12.000I buy the three-pack of it and my oldest son, he knows how to prepare like his own ribeye and he makes that a part of like a healthy kind of diet.
02:05:32.000What other issues do you think we should discuss before we wrap this up?
02:05:35.000Is there anything else that's on your mind that you think is significant that needs to be discussed?
02:05:42.000Oh, before we wrap up, I think we have a situation, whether it's the situation on Israel or there's a lot happening about the election right now.
02:05:55.000But it's really a strange place in our nation right now.
02:06:00.000But I promise you it's going to be, depending on whenever people hear this conversation, our world's going to be about to change or maybe has changed.
02:06:10.000And so I just hope, though, I just hope, though, that we're going to be able to respond in a way for an order kinds of transfer of power and we are going to be heading into a more peaceful and a more productive and collaborative kind of direction throughout that.
02:06:28.000But we're in an incredibly divisible place right now.
02:06:32.000And I just want to be part of a conversation to make sure that we can be more constructive.
02:06:38.000But right now, it's a difficult place right now, and we're coming down to a coin toss election.