In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, we discuss the latest in the mysterious disappearance of a nuclear device from the Eastern Seaboard of the United States, and whether or not the government is trying to find a missing nuke.
00:00:58.000So, you know, I've had the privilege of interacting with a lot of government organizations over the past few years as I've been digging down this rabbit hole.
00:01:08.000Law enforcement at a federal level, DOD, executive branch, legislative branch, and some of the folks that I've come in contact with, they specifically work on weapons of mass destruction.
00:01:21.000So if there's a loose nuke in the United States, among other agencies, they would be some of the people that would be sitting in a skiff for 24 hours a day trying to figure out where it is and to go get it.
00:01:33.000So you can imagine that would be their number one priority.
00:01:38.000I ask them, you know, what's the sense here?
00:01:40.000You know, people are kind of starting to panic a little bit, and this message is getting out there more and more broadly.
00:01:47.000And they assured me that's not the case, that there is not a loose nuke or other type of weapon of mass destruction that these objects, whatever they are, are pursuing right now.
00:01:58.000Otherwise, they would be working in a SCIF nonstop to make that go away, that problem go away.
00:02:03.000You know, that's part of why I have a high confidence level that this is not a response to a massive imminent, you know, weapons of mass destruction threat on the eastern seaboard.
00:02:15.000So I just want to try to dispel that rumor right now.
00:02:18.000I've seen a lot of talk of that online.
00:02:21.000And I don't, you know, although this is a, you know, I think a dangerous and scary situation that's going on right now, at least from that particular angle, that's not the indications I'm receiving.
00:02:48.000So either the government is holding back that secret from the direct resources within the government that are responsible for finding these systems, or they're not working the issue because there isn't an issue there to work.
00:02:58.000So the thing that I had heard was that it was a missing nuke from Ukraine.
00:03:04.000And if that was the case, so what could they do?
00:03:10.000Is there any truth to this idea that we have the type of drone capability that we could send these things out and they would search for gamma radiation and they'd be able to find a nuke?
00:05:18.000That's the differentiator right there.
00:05:20.000So Langley Air Force Base, you might be familiar with the fact that they had drone incursions of an unknown type, unknown origin last year.
00:05:51.000And they were expecting them to come again for the third year in a row over Langley.
00:05:57.000And there was some effort put forward to be able to better understand these when they came back.
00:06:02.000And they did come back, but they came back in a much wider swath, right?
00:06:06.000Now we have them all over New Jersey, all the way up to Massachusetts.
00:06:10.000And it's hard to tell exactly with the quality of the reporting right now, because it seems to be, you know, the bigger this story gets, the more people are just looking up and seeing anything and pointing it out.
00:06:20.000But, you know, there are reports from Texas to Florida to California, Ohio, Minnesota, Pennsylvania.
00:06:26.000I mean, it's not just New Jersey itself, it seems.
00:06:30.000And even the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base was shut down for a drone incursion just this last Friday, a couple days ago.
00:06:39.000It is in the sense that it's so large and so many people are paying attention to it.
00:06:43.000But this has been occurring for at least three years around military bases.
00:06:48.000And that's nothing to say with the incidents that we were seeing over the eastern seaboard and other training ranges that fighter pilots were seeing as they were doing their operations.
00:06:59.000I'm a little hesitant to link it to that, the full story that we've been having here, this full conversation, but at least for three years, this has been occurring.
00:07:09.000So, you know, kind of getting back to your question, you know, why can't we do more about it?
00:07:13.000It's a hard problem, I think, for a number of reasons.
00:07:16.000It's hard, but it's very solvable, right?
00:07:22.000But right now, kind of the word on the street is that These objects appear to be coming from over the ocean.
00:07:30.000There's senior congressmen, there's Coast Guard personnel, there's law enforcement that are seeing a large number of these come from somewhere over the ocean.
00:07:37.000I don't know if that means necessarily they're popping out of the water physically or if they're coming from some unknown location in the water and then proceeding over the coast.
00:07:47.000I don't know how that relates to Ohio.
00:07:49.000That's a pretty long trip if they are coming over the ocean.
00:07:54.000And from the videos I've seen and the conversation I've had, they are detecting these objects through kind of normal mechanisms like radar systems, optical camera systems.
00:08:09.000In some cases, they seem to be operating as a group in the vicinity of each other, flying past each other, flying very up close to each other, and then proceeding to do whatever they are that they're doing.
00:08:21.000It's unknown right now if they are emitting energy or not.
00:08:25.000So, you know, like radio communications or their own maybe active sensor systems.
00:08:32.000I've poked on that front, and the best I can tell, the government doesn't know either.
00:08:36.000That seems so weird that they don't know that.
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00:10:42.000So it's tough to say, but this isn't just a few objects that people are seeing.
00:10:49.000And so I can imagine some technologies that will allow traditional UAVs or drones to operate without emitting.
00:10:57.000So they could have a self-contained navigational system.
00:11:02.000Maybe they have their own onboard maps and they're using cameras to map where they are.
00:11:06.000So then they would be completely autonomous?
00:11:08.000You just send them out there and they would have a task and they would go through whatever their task is and navigate via their GPS or whatever tracking system they're using?
00:11:24.000Is it because they're sensing something?
00:11:26.000And if they are sensing something, they would have to be using what's called passive sensors, right?
00:11:31.000So, like, a camera system is passive, but if you're shooting, you know, a radar out and having it bounce off of something, that's active, right?
00:11:38.000And that's easier to detect than a passive system.
00:11:41.000So I could imagine, you know, a fully self-contained autonomous drone system that is doing something potentially with passive sensors that allows it to operate without emissions, which is going to make it harder to track.
00:11:52.000If they're doing it at night, if they do have passive systems like some sort of an optical system, wouldn't that be hindered by the low light conditions or do we have stuff that...
00:12:03.000Is able to detect whatever they're looking for at night?
00:12:06.000Yeah, depends what they're looking for, but ultimately there is tech, there's electro-optical systems, there's infrared camera systems, not unlike the systems that we had on my jet.
00:12:17.000But we were able to detect these objects with infrared when we were flying off the eastern seaboard.
00:12:22.000There are a number of reports from law enforcement that their infrared systems are not able to pick these objects up.
00:12:28.000And not just this year, but also the incidents over Langley last year, the pilots that respond to that incident, I've spoken to them, they weren't able to lock these up with their infrared systems either.
00:12:38.000So they do seem to be exhibiting some type of signature management.
00:13:50.000Based on what I've seen just in the public from reports and kind of amateur photographers and witnesses, some of them do seem to be making pretty sharp turns.
00:14:00.000I wouldn't call them like physics-breaking turns, but they don't seem to be operating like a normal aircraft, right?
00:14:06.000They're making what appear to be pretty high-G turns.
00:14:09.000Maybe like three, four, 5G turns at relatively low air speeds, which is indicative of them having a pretty significant power supply, right?
00:14:18.000Anytime you turn like that, you're burning energy, essentially.
00:14:22.000So for them to be able to make these high-G maneuvers and then remain in the area for another five or six or seven hours and still have the battery life or whatever's propelling them, to then go over the ocean to a point where they're untrackable, Again, I'm not really familiar with that type of capability either.
00:14:40.000I know they've shot at least one of them down, or people have shot.
00:15:01.000Yeah, I've heard multiple people, representative officials, saying, like, hey, government needs to step in and start being more clear, because people are just going to take matters to their own hands.
00:15:32.000But again, this is the problem with social media, especially with someone like me who's just kind of scrolling for five minutes and going, what the fuck?
00:15:38.000And then, like, you know, my kids ask me something, I gotta get out of the house, alright, let me put my phone down.
00:15:42.000You know, so I haven't done any kind of a deep dive, and I did that purposely just to try to pick your brain.
00:16:29.000But I just feel like with his contracts with NASA and being involved in SpaceX, he can't talk crazy.
00:16:36.000He talks crazy so much about other stuff, but...
00:16:39.000When it's in this fucking multi-multi-billion dollar company that he runs, I don't think he can fuck around.
00:16:47.000If it was something that he had no interest in at all, in terms of financial interest and business interest, I'm sure he would be commenting on it.
00:18:20.000But here's, I think, where a lot of the trouble's coming in from.
00:18:24.000I think the government has to make the presumption at this point, based off the feedback from the DOD and others, that if this is not a foreign adversary, then we have to make the assumption that it's a U.S. citizen that's operating these.
00:18:37.000Because of that, they essentially need a warrant in order to wiretap these.
00:18:53.000Well, whether it's the reality of the situation or not, that's how they're proceeding, right?
00:18:57.000And so to overcome that, you know, there's like a 120-page report that needs to be filed all the way up to the Deputy Attorney General of the United States in order to even intercept these signals that they may or may not even be emitting to be able to determine where they're going.
00:19:12.000And so I think that's one part of what's slowing down this whole investigation.
00:19:16.000On the other hand, for base commanders, they have limited authorities protect their base, but when they do, they need to submit basically a request all the way up to the Secretary of Defense.
00:19:29.000So now you have this super politically charged situation with a lot of risk of objects flying over the U.S., If they take action and shoot one of these down, even with the Secretary of Defense's permission, they're on the hook if that thing takes out a school bus or otherwise damages someone's property.
00:19:45.000Jamie, can you research, can you just do a quick search?
00:19:49.000Have there been drones that have been shot down?
00:20:28.000While looking at Nuclear Regulatory Commission alerts, one confirmed there's radioactive material that has gone missing on December 2nd, 2024 out of New Jersey.
00:20:38.000I guess it was being shipped there and it didn't make a container arrive damaged and empty.
00:20:46.000Well, my understanding is these sightings started around November 18th.
00:20:50.000Yeah, so I saw the November 20th too, so I don't know if that makes sense related.
00:20:55.000So we should explain to people that didn't listen to our first podcast why you're uniquely qualified to talk about this stuff.
00:21:02.000Just please tell people your background so they understand what you used to do and how you got involved in this whole UAP thing in the beginning.
00:21:48.000So you might fly with a newer radar in the morning, maybe an older radar at night.
00:21:54.000And consistently, when we were flying with these newer radars, we were picking up a bunch of objects that were operating in our working area that we weren't seeing with the older radar.
00:22:08.000They would be around 250 to 350 knots, kind of meandering around the area.
00:22:14.000Not really working together, per se, but kind of clearly operating in the same vicinity as one another, right?
00:22:20.000So we weren't flying in formations, necessarily.
00:22:22.000And we'd even see these supersonic as well, 1.1, 1.2 Mach, typically heading east.
00:22:28.000And we'd only see them over the water.
00:22:31.000We originally thought they were radar errors, some kind of software glitch.
00:22:35.000But eventually we started to correlate these across other sensors, such as our IR FLIR system.
00:22:41.000Our missile systems would lock onto these.
00:22:43.000And we'd try to fly up to them, to see them physically with our eyeballs.
00:22:48.000And when we do that, we wouldn't see anything.
00:22:50.000We come within about 500 feet of these objects.
00:22:53.000All our sensors are pumped into our helmet, augmented reality style.
00:22:58.000And it would tell us exactly where to look and boom, we come right past this object and there'd be nothing there.
00:23:04.000We'd circle back around and then pick it back up on our sensors.
00:23:07.000It would be slightly displaced, but that was kind of status quo for a few weeks until we had a near miss with one of these objects right at the entrance to our working areas.
00:23:17.000The pilot came back, canceled the flight, had a look of shock on his face and described as a dark gray or a black cube inside of a clear sphere.
00:23:26.000And once that happened, we kind of had to come together as a squadron with the safety officer in our squadron and say, hey, you know, like, okay, what's going on?
00:23:33.000This has kind of been rumor and conjecture, but, you know, we almost had a near miss.
00:23:38.000You know, let's gather as much information as we can.
00:23:41.000As it turned out, there are four other near misses that had occurred in the past month that pilots were too uncomfortable to even report.
00:23:50.000And that really kind of kicked off the seriousness of this issue for us.
00:23:53.000And we started filing paperwork, safety reports, and hoping and expecting that this would get resolved in some way as, you know, the proper people, whoever that was, got these reports and they could mitigate it in some way.
00:24:07.000But that never happened, at least from our perspective.
00:24:10.000So we essentially treated them as safety issues.
00:25:32.000We didn't know what else to do with it.
00:25:34.000And we went back to our training and left on deployment.
00:25:37.000In 2017, a New York Times article came out.
00:25:42.000I was now an instructor pilot in Mississippi and for the Navy still.
00:25:48.000And on, you know, front page of New York Times, lo and behold, there are the video of the gimbal and the GoFast with the pilot's audio on there that we've heard now.
00:25:55.000And I'm like, holy shit, you know, like, this is still going on.
00:25:59.000Massive deja vu, as you might imagine.
00:26:01.000And I saw that as like a cry for help, essentially, that these videos have now been somewhat smuggled out.
00:26:08.000They're on the front page of New York Times.
00:26:10.000Do we know how the gimbal or the GoFast videos got leaked?
00:26:14.000My understanding is that work was done partially with Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon.
00:26:22.000So there was two videos that were attached, right?
00:26:26.000So when you record in the jet, it records two screens.
00:26:55.000So, with the crosshairs, they're trying to lock in on it, so now they've locked in on it, right?
00:27:00.000Yeah, they weren't able to gain a lock in their air-to-air mode, so they actually had to degrade down to an air-to-surface mode, kind of a manual locking mode, and that's that box that you see.
00:27:35.000You know, one theory is that it's because it's relatively close to the ground and there's a lot of background, right, to confuse the sensor.
00:27:42.000How far off the ocean is this supposed to be?
00:27:45.000It's somewhere around 10,000 feet or so.
00:30:09.000I mean, we've seen thousands of aircraft like that.
00:30:12.000But I mean, in terms of the signature that it gives off with the temperature, or would you be able to see a visible means of propulsion that would be accentuated?
00:30:20.000Yeah, you'd see the exhaust coming out of the back.
00:30:22.000You'd be able to see the skin of the aircraft itself.
00:30:25.000So the sensor is not great, but it's good enough where you can break out some pretty good detail on a jet.
00:30:34.000You know, it kind of looks like a flying saucer.
00:30:37.000And then it turns sideways, which is really weird.
00:30:44.000Is there anything on that that shows the speed?
00:30:48.000On the bottom left, you see 242 knots.
00:30:51.000That's how fast the aircraft that is recording it is going.
00:30:55.000The pilots do talk about how it's going 120 knots against the whim.
00:31:00.000And in my recollection, it was going at a relatively slow speed for a fighter aircraft, around 100 knots or so, at those speeds, from looking at the radar data itself.
00:31:10.000So, as far as you know, we don't have anything that moves like that.
00:31:54.000Whether the air traffic management guys on the boat themselves then took it upon themselves to go try to detect these objects, I don't have that information.
00:32:04.000I was never in that information stream, but presumably they would.
00:32:07.000Is there a capability where, so if a fighter jet locks in on something like that, is there an additional source of some sort of satellite that they can team into or tune into where they can give them the coordinates and say, hey, this is at this exact coordinate.
00:32:36.000So if you were flying out there and the aircraft that recorded that video was getting that on the radar, that information would be getting sent to other jets in the area.
00:32:46.000There was a large training mission going on, and I'm not aware of anyone that, you know, was paying attention to those contacts that were, say, 50 miles away from where they were doing this fight.
00:32:55.000But it shouldn't have been just self-contained into the aircraft itself.
00:33:00.000And additionally, that information should have also been received by the ship itself, right?
00:33:04.000They should have access to that same information that's being shared.
00:33:14.000As pilots, we don't really get into the satellite game, if you will.
00:33:17.000That's kind of like a different level than how we operate.
00:33:20.000So it's feasible that a ship might call in other national assets to investigate, but we operate as a self-contained expeditionary group, so I don't know if that's part of their protocol.
00:33:29.000So they wouldn't even refer to you or discuss it with you?
00:33:33.000Did anybody discuss any of these things with you?
00:33:35.000Like, when you're talking about the safety hazard, you know, you've got this clear circle with a black square inside of it, and they're flying in this very unusual way.
00:33:45.000When you described it to people, what's the feedback?
00:33:49.000Honestly, most people just kind of looked off in the space.
00:34:21.000They're about a mile apart flying in formation, doing what they're doing.
00:34:24.000The pilots were looking at that, had a hard time locking it, and then they kind of brought their attention up to this other object that's basically co-altitude with them, and that's the gimbal video.
00:34:35.000And behind the gimbal, there was what they referred to as a fleet of objects, about four to six objects that were flying in a formation, like a tight formation, all within about a mile and a half of each other, in a V formation.
00:34:50.000So they come, they turn, they get all discombobulated, and then they...
00:34:54.000Flow back out into a clean formation, making a 180 degree turn.
00:34:58.000And then the gimbal object, which we see start to rotate, that's the moment it actually changes direction, right?
00:35:04.000So it's proceeding behind this formation.
00:35:06.000It turns, the gimbal does its kind of, you know, its maneuver, and then it starts trailing in the opposite direction.
00:35:14.000So you've got, you know, maybe 10, 12 objects that are out there operating in this area east of the ship.
00:35:30.000You know, for me, this is the conversation that I've been trying to have for almost 10 years now about the seriousness of having these unknown objects in our airspace.
00:35:41.000It's a security risk whether, you know, they come from little green men or whether they come from our adversaries or if they just remain unknown.
00:35:48.000And that's kind of the state we're living in right now with what's happening over in New Jersey and elsewhere.
00:35:52.000We're having this massive uncertainty about what these objects are.
00:35:58.000And once again, the Biden administration and the Pentagon are unwilling to have a conversation with the American people and share what information they have.
00:36:06.000Why do you think that is, if you had to speculate?
00:36:10.000The biggest probability is they don't know.
00:36:14.000If this is something that they've been struggling with for all these years, and suddenly it's happening in a much larger capacity than it has in the past, they're not easily able to write it off, and they just don't have the answers.
00:36:29.000Or perhaps they do have the answers, but they fall under a category of information, much like these objects, that they're not willing to have a public conversation about it.
00:36:38.000What is the best footage of the New Jersey drones?
00:37:28.000So many ones that people have generated, you know, I'm friends with Jeremy Corbell, and Jeremy, I always send him, like, what the fuck is this?
00:37:35.000You know, I'll send some stuff to him.
00:37:37.000And, you know, he's very good at, like, we don't really know.
00:38:00.000There's not, like, one person you can go to.
00:38:03.000I mean, you have your people that are dismissing everything, think it's just hobbyists and crazy people, but if they're not giving off signatures, like, that are standard with these normal drones, like these heat signatures, and they're able to stay in the sky for hours and hours at a time, just that alone points to, at least, if it's not our adversaries, if it's domestic, Superior technology that we're not even aware of right now.
00:38:28.000I mean, how are they staying in the sky for five hours?
00:38:32.000If you got, like, a top of the food chain drone, and who was it that is explaining to us the issue with why China has superior drone technology?
00:38:42.000It has something to do with the FAA. Was it Andreessen?
00:39:22.000It's because of the FAA dragging their heels, being incompetent or at least being overwhelmed, where this has not been able to progress domestically the way it's been able to do in China.
00:39:36.000That alone seems like a giant security threat.
00:39:39.000The fact that China has had just full integration with the government and been able to have this technological innovation that allows their drones to be like super powerful.
00:39:51.000Like what they're able to do with these displays in the sky, unbelievable.
00:40:13.000And this is, you know, something I've tried to raise the alarm bells on before the Ukraine war, but we're seeing it now.
00:40:20.000Warfare is going to these highly mobile, non-traditional platforms where you can have a group of guys that are basically teenagers now going out and conducting operations with these small drones.
00:40:33.000And God forbid that an adversarial nation is now employing those technologies here.
00:40:41.000In the United States, and if it was Russia, if it was China, and they were doing it directly, that'd be the equivalent of a declaration of war.
00:41:13.000And there are a lot of companies that, you know, within the private sector and, of course, within the normal defense contractor world that is building capabilities to be able to detect and mitigate drones, whether it's kinetically or through electronic warfare.
00:41:52.000so um is there any good footage that you could point to i don't even know where to look i've looked there's people on the news that have reported it but the one clip i was looking at they're just showing a plane so like that's not good i've i just found one but it looks like a guy in the woods i don't know what the video is you know yeah that's the problem when they took it i don't know when they shot it they're saying it was last night but it could have been could have been right yeah it could be bullshit
00:42:18.000But this is part of the problem with this weird world that we're living in right now with fake information.
00:42:24.000It's so difficult to figure out what the hell is going on.
00:42:28.000Did I send you that video, Jamie, of that guy where he's CEO of a drone manufacturing company?
00:42:35.000This is the guy that made me the most nervous.
00:42:39.000This guy made me the most nervous because this guy is talking about how this, whatever the hell this stuff is, He believes it's looking for a nuke.
00:43:12.000CEO of Saxon Aerospace here in Wichita, Kansas.
00:43:17.000I'm not normally a tick-tock kind of a guy.
00:43:19.000I like watching this stuff every once in a while but I'm a manufacturer of unmanned aircraft military-grade unmanned aircraft as you can see one of my systems here There's all of these mysterious drones going on off the East Coast and as a as a professional as a subject matter expert I I wanted to give you all my opinion on what I think could be going on with these drones.
00:43:48.000I don't particularly believe that these have a nefarious intent.
00:43:52.000I could be wrong, but I want to give you the truth and what I believe.
00:43:56.000It's my own opinion, and I've not bounced this off of anybody, so if you think it's bullshit, whatever, that's cool.
00:44:05.000I don't want to spread misinformation, as we know that There's a lot of that going around.
00:44:11.000But anyway, back in the 1980s, Ronald Reagan had dismantled the nuclear program, and there were, with Russia, there were countless nuclear missiles that were disarmed and disposed of.
00:45:03.000A few months ago, who was trying to raise an alarm to the highest levels of our government, which they had their ears closed, about this one particular nuclear warhead that he physically put his hands on.
00:45:20.000He physically touched this warhead that was left over from Ukraine.
00:45:24.000And he knew that that thing was headed towards the United States.
00:45:51.000Do you all remember when those drones were mysteriously flying across the Interstate 70 corridor from Colorado up into Nebraska, down here into Kansas, and out into Missouri?
00:46:02.000Well, it was believed that those drones were looking for radioactive material because there had been some material that came up missing here in the United States.
00:46:14.000And they felt like it was a high probability that it would...
00:46:21.000Nuclear or the radioactive material would be taken along the Interstate 70 corridor heading east or west or south.
00:46:30.000So, from what we understand, they were out there trying to find this radioactive material.
00:46:38.000Now, drones, they have no reason to be in the air at night.
00:46:46.000Unless you're doing some type of ISR work, intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, you know, looking for bad guys, or looking for a victim, a search and rescue victim, or law enforcement, or some type of military project, right?
00:47:06.000There's no reason for a drone to be flying at night, really, okay?
00:47:16.000Unless you have thermal optics, drones really don't see stuff.
00:47:21.000You need to do mapping during the day.
00:47:23.000If you're going to do farming stuff, mostly do it during the day.
00:47:27.000The only reason why you would ever fly an unmanned aircraft at night is if you're looking for something.
00:47:35.000Whether it be a person or trying to smell gas.
00:47:41.000We have methane gas detection systems.
00:47:46.000that can that can detect gas leaks and pipelines you really wouldn't use thermal optics for trying to find gas leaks just simply because the only way you're actually going to find a gas leak with thermal optics is if the gas leak is aggressive enough that it has a difference in temperature because radio thermal imaging it it creates a digital image based off the temperature variance so whatever different in temperature is It creates an image.
00:48:17.000Usually gas leaks so slow that it goes quickly into ambient before you can even see it.
00:48:25.000So we have special sensors that can detect gas leaks.
00:48:30.000We also have special sensors that can detect radioactive material.
00:48:35.000So with this gentleman that I had spoken with who was trying to raise the alarm, To try to get somebody in the government to say, hey, we need to work together to go try to find this nuclear warhead.
00:50:07.000Yeah, the Glomar response refers to a covert CIA operation where a ship named the Hughes Glomar Explorer was used to recover a sunken Soviet submarine.
00:50:22.000Implication, when someone says, can neither confirm nor deny, they're essentially saying they cannot provide any information on the matter, leaving the question unanswered.
00:50:28.000So they answered it without answering it.
00:50:31.000Because they were compelled to answer, and they said, we can neither confirm nor deny.
00:50:36.000Which is interesting, because if you're in a Senate hearing and someone says something like that, like, what are you...
00:51:30.000And then the jump is that that weapon eventually ended up somewhere on the eastern seaboard and the people that would be responsible for investigating such an issue are not even aware of it, even while somehow our government is flying hundreds of drones around to detect it.
00:51:48.000It's interesting, but I don't know if it connects...
00:51:51.000I think there's a few connections short of being able to say that's exactly what's going on here, especially after the conversations I've had.
00:53:19.000That's the thing that everybody would really be worried about.
00:53:21.000The second thing would be that our adversaries are using these things to siphon up information, that it's like some mass Wi-Fi router that's flying over cities and sucking up everybody's passwords.
00:53:33.000As we move into this new, very bizarre realm of AI and now quantum computing, I had a conversation with someone last night who was explaining to me how cryptography and encryption and all this stuff is literally on the verge of being obsolete and that this is going to put the financial markets into a chaos.
00:53:53.000All of your passwords, everybody's email, everything is out the window.
00:54:01.000These things are solving Marc Andreessen explained it this way, that these quantum computers are solving equations that If you took every atom in the universe and converted it into computing power, the time it would take to solve these equations would be longer than the time that the universe would exist before it died of heat death.
00:54:34.000So, the concept is, and this is where it gets super weird, that this is proof of the multiverse because these computers are using the computing power of perhaps infinite parallel universes simultaneously to achieve these answers.
00:55:28.000And what happens if China gets this online?
00:55:31.000If we're able to do these equations, right?
00:55:35.000It's kind of almost like proof of concept of the technology being efficient or efficacious.
00:55:41.000If they're able to do that, What if someone is more advanced than us and gets this connected to AI and implements some sort of a strategy for complete global domination of power grids, financial markets, completely takes control of assets, closes down government computers, locks up databases, deletes any information that's pertinent to Who knows what?
00:56:06.000Power grid, fucking informational structures, like satellites, cell phones, all of our radio signals.
00:56:50.000My understanding is that this is something China's been looking forward to.
00:56:56.000So what I mean by that is that they have not just been working on this technology in order to break our encryption now, but have been storing our encrypted data from in the past such that when they do have that breakthrough, they have a lot of data to be able to utilize it on, not just what's happening now.
00:57:15.000I know this is absolutely happening because my friend, my friend Bobby, owns the Coda, the racetrack in town.
00:57:22.000And when they had the Formula One race at his racetrack, they found these boxes that were connected to their...
00:57:31.000This Wi-Fi system and these boxes were outside so the public Wi-Fi system had been compromised by these data-sucking boxes and so they called in Homeland Security they had them removed the whole deal but like someone had gotten to the racetrack and physically connected these boxes to a public Wi-Fi system How many times is that going on where people don't notice it?
00:57:56.000This is not the first time they've done it.
00:58:00.000Yeah, we're gonna get all those fucking race fans, suck up all their data.
00:58:03.000It doesn't even make any sense, right?
00:58:05.000This is something that's probably been implemented before.
00:58:07.000It's like, what are they doing with that data?
00:58:09.000I think they typically refer to that as a man-in-the-middle attack.
00:58:12.000So you think you're connecting to the regular Wi-Fi, but you're actually connecting to the adversary's Wi-Fi, sending your data through there, and then they send that to the original box that you thought you were communicating with.
00:58:38.000By setting up their own servers essentially to serve as a man in the middle attack.
00:58:40.000But back to your point about China trying to work on quantum computing on AI, I think China is probably one of the biggest motivating factors that the government has right now for opening up the conversation on UAP.
00:58:54.000So we haven't had this peer threat that we have to worry about that has a totally different investment government structure than we have, right?
00:59:02.000So in the United States, we have this capitalist market, and we have innovations that break out through that model, like OpenAI.
00:59:10.000But there are some capabilities where they are not appetizing to the market itself.
00:59:16.000For example, how do we just suddenly stand up a chip fabrication facility in the United States that competes with the operations in Taiwan?
00:59:25.000It's not something that a VC is going to invest in.
00:59:28.000It's going to take billions and billions of dollars.
01:00:02.000But if China is having the same issues with the UAP that we are having, then you could imagine them putting a lot of resources into better understanding that situation in a way that we're just not equipped to do.
01:00:13.000And the fact that this conversation has grown more, that their advancements have been getting better, I think there is this pressure right now within the U.S. government that if we do not further invest, somehow bring in the primary innovation makers within our economy, within the startup community, within the scientific community, into this problem, if it's still just buried in a classified area, then we're going to get outcompeted by China that is able to dump all these resources into it.
01:00:40.000How do you do that, though, if these people that create these things are motivated by money, if they're motivated by profits, if they run major corporations?
01:00:52.000How can you convince them to invest in something that is ultimately not going to pay off like it would if you were investing in a consumer product?
01:01:02.000I mean, we have a model for that in the United States with deep technology and edge technology.
01:01:07.000You know, these are capabilities that don't fit into a normal VC's life cycle of five or six years before you're seeing returns.
01:01:13.000It might take 10 years before you have a product, right?
01:01:16.000And there's a lot of risks that they could fail along the way.
01:01:19.000But that's, you know, that's where we get a lot of our major innovations from.
01:01:23.000That's where we see very exotic technology being worked on, like advanced propulsion, communication systems, energy production.
01:01:30.000And every one of these has huge potential added value to our economy.
01:01:35.000I mean, to the level that AI has, right?
01:01:39.000So, you know, there's a couple ways you can go about it.
01:01:41.000You know, you can either create a new investment cycle or structure that is more tolerant to the risk and more tolerant to extended time to returns, which, you know, you got to fight market force with that.
01:01:54.000You could have the government step in, perhaps through the Office of Strategic Capital and others to be able to support venture capitalists that are looking to make investments in these longer term technologies, perhaps in concert with the National Science Foundation that does a lot of work in this area.
01:02:09.000Or you can try to structure your technologies such that they provide value to existing capabilities during the research and development process.
01:02:17.000So what I mean by that, and, you know, I've been working this problem for 10 years, Joe.
01:02:49.000Those are reasonable investments you can make through normal market forces.
01:02:53.000And then you keep working to be able to...
01:02:56.000Use those existing products and those markets to bring out technology that is related to the UAP topic, whether that be detection, perhaps propulsion, energy, things of that nature.
01:03:06.000So you have to find these core technologies that the government wants that is also aligned with the better understanding of UAP. Now, the way you're describing this sounds like it could be done, but China's already done that.
01:03:21.000So, like, how far behind the curve are we on the implementation of this technology?
01:03:26.000Well, it's an unknown how far China is.
01:03:29.000You know, there are some rumors, and I'm not even going to mention them because they're too low-confidence.
01:03:35.000Come on, I love a good low-confidence rumor.
01:03:38.000There does seem to be investment that's been made.
01:03:40.000There are talk that they are having the same problems and perhaps have been better motivated than we are to investigate ones that they have been able to recover.
01:03:49.000Do you know about the anti-gravity lady that went missing and went back to China?
01:03:58.000You know, I was mentioning this out front with some of the guys earlier.
01:04:02.000There seems to be these interesting technologies that were once ridiculed back in the day, whether it be anti-gravity, cold fusion, others.
01:04:11.000It's a good way to get rid of stuff, ridicule it.
01:04:14.000Yeah, I'm very familiar with that strategy.
01:06:40.000Like I said, it's a hard problem, but it's not an unsolvable problem.
01:06:44.000There are technologies that we could go out in the field within a couple weeks, employ, see if we can find the RF signals and try to trace them back.
01:06:54.000We don't have to rely on the government for us.
01:08:33.000I've talked with pilots from every major airline.
01:08:36.000Some of them are standing up their own UAP working groups within their airlines to be able to report on this.
01:08:41.000I'm working closely with them on this.
01:08:43.000But what's interesting is we get these reports from pilots and we can often then see similarities or even perhaps the exact same object that's being reported by people on the ground.
01:08:56.000So one particular example over Atlanta Airport a few years ago, there was a relatively large object, brightly lit, about 8,000 feet over Atlanta.
01:09:05.000Four or five commercial airliners called it in.
01:09:10.000The object started to accelerate level due south to what I call conventional speeds, as fast as an airliner, and then took off much faster, continuing due south.
01:09:24.000We received those reports, and the next day we received a report from a random lady in Florida that happened to be basically due south from Atlanta.
01:09:33.000She took a picture of the exact same object.
01:10:17.000We could be out there in two weeks detecting and tracking these objects to get answers.
01:10:20.000Well, what do you think about what Trump is saying, though, that they already do know and that they have tracked it, but the government just does not want to tell us what's going on?
01:10:47.000If you really wanted to get people relaxed to the idea of flying saucers, like legitimate whatever the hell they are, wherever the hell they're from, if you knew that was coming and you didn't want mass panic, what would you do?
01:11:45.000If you knew that UAPs were coming and you were in the government and you said, what can we do?
01:11:52.000Well, you'd probably bring in psychologists and these psychologists would explain, Human patterns of reacting to change in environments, especially radical changes in civilization and culture and like what can be done to mitigate the brutality of this process.
01:12:09.000Like the ultimate mass freakout that's going to come if UFOs come.
01:12:15.000Get people just so accustomed to UFO, like the mask thing, right?
01:12:19.000Sounds like a ridiculous comparison, but like Five years ago, if people were walking around wearing masks, you would go, what is going on?
01:12:43.000They wanted to make it normal that things are in the sky you put things in the sky you put a bunch of things in the sky and you don't explain it and you have them there all the time and you let people speculate and You put a lot of wild theories on me.
01:13:04.000Well It's probably not even it's probably our shit or or You know, some unknown agency is involved in this.
01:13:15.000The government's not concerned because they know exactly what's happening.
01:13:18.000That's why there's not shooting them down.
01:13:20.000That's why they're not scrambling jets.
01:13:21.000That's why they're not doing all these things that Trump's asking why they're doing this thing.
01:13:25.000If you knew something was coming, if you knew that these things that you're seeing float in the sky that are a clear circle with a black square inside of it and they can hover at 120 knots completely still, which doesn't even make any sense, no heat signature, what is it?
01:14:15.000The way we live is so entirely alien to people that lived just 200 years ago that if you brought someone from the pioneer days and you put them in a Tesla and then you drove them to the movie theater and then you took them to a concert, you'd be like, what the fuck is going on?
01:15:18.000And then when the real ones come, it's much less of a blow.
01:15:22.000Well, some politicians just as soon as yesterday, Chuck Schumer, Robert Garcia in the house, they've started to kind of use the whole drone and or UAP in their messaging, right?
01:15:35.000They've started to change their language.
01:16:10.000I was like, why does my Bluetooth keep skipping out when I'm trying to stream music?
01:16:14.000But I realized that there were so many people connected to the Bluetooth, and if you have that Spotify thing on where you're sharing, it's like, I forget what it's called.
01:16:25.000Like a bunch of people can contribute songs.
01:16:28.000They can all like add to your little playlist while it's going on.
01:17:53.000If somebody controls that before we do, if somebody breaks through with this type of technology and then just shuts all the other ones off, Like, how many...
01:19:28.000And the problem is, if you don't do it, our enemy's going to do it.
01:19:32.000And we're so shitty at communicating with other human beings all across the world that we've been stealing resources and overthrowing governments for so long that nobody trusts us.
01:19:41.000And then while all that's going on, we're in the middle of creating an artificial intelligence that's infinitely smarter than us and might be working in parallel universes.
01:19:51.000If you can do an equation, and you're telling me that this equation through these quantum computers is proof of a multiverse, what happens if AGI gets connected to the multiverse?
01:20:22.000We're all fucking hot rodders on the highway, headed towards this weird thing that no one really knows what it's going to be, but everyone agrees it's the greatest technological breakthrough the human race has ever experienced, and it's happening so fast, and most people are like, what?
01:20:39.000Most people, if they're not listening to podcasts, they're not on Twitter every day, and they're not on Facebook, and they're not really paying attention to this stuff, most people are blissfully unaware we're about to awaken a god.
01:20:53.000Blissfully unaware we're about to connect to some insane technology that hasn't even been It's so insane that it's sort of like one of those things where somebody tries to tell you how many stars there are in the universe.
01:21:14.000When they were saying that it can compute something that all the world's supercomputers, it would take some septillion number of years to do, that it can do it in 15 minutes?
01:23:09.000Maybe this is a strange stage that intelligent life gets to when it reaches a point of technological sophistication where it can create An artificial version of a thinking being.
01:23:21.000And then that thinking being, of course, creates infinitely better versions of itself and figures out a way to harness power in a way that's just...
01:23:28.000We can't even comprehend, which is what a quantum computer connected to AGI would be able to do.
01:24:45.000And if we know That we're going through this thing right now.
01:24:51.000We're about to create a AGI. We're about to implement quantum computing in this country who knows what they're doing in other countries.
01:25:00.000If this is just like a thing that beings go through and we get past this and then we find another planet out there that's also like dropping nuclear bombs on it.
01:25:11.000We would probably start circling that planet and making sure they don't fuck the whole thing up.
01:25:18.000It's probably insanely difficult to get intelligent life to the position that we're in right now in a volatile universe that's subject to natural disasters, asteroid impacts, super volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, all different things that could wipe out technology and bring it back to the caveman days, you know?
01:25:36.000If all that is known and this is going on all throughout the universe, it would probably be in their best interest to sort of protect this investment in evolution and not have us knock back to the Stone Age and have to start all over again.
01:25:51.000Not have us nuke ourselves to the point where there's like 13 of us left, you know?
01:25:57.000Well, outside of us nuking ourselves, what do you think that the Trump administration, oncoming Trump administration, should do about the UAP topic?
01:26:24.000And if you can't, I have to think that it's a military intelligence thing.
01:26:29.000Like, you don't want the enemy to know what you're capable of, which I totally understand.
01:26:34.000If that's what's going on and that's why they can't tell us, that actually makes sense.
01:26:38.000But if it's not that, and it's that we are experiencing contact on a regular basis with something that we can't explain or understand, you don't have the right to that.
01:26:51.000You don't have the right to that information.
01:27:05.000If you're telling me that you have to do it because we've developed some sort of a gravity propulsion system that's infinitely superior to anything the Soviet Union has or the Russia has or China has, Fine.
01:27:17.000I'm not in the business of the military and national security.
01:27:20.000If that's why you can't tell us, I totally understand.
01:27:23.000But if you are in contact with fucking aliens, and you know they exist, you know there's something that visits us, whether it's from another dimension or whether it's from another planet, that's not yours.
01:27:36.000You can't treat us like fucking babies, like we can't handle this.
01:27:40.000If you actually have recovered a crashed UFO, look, I understand the implications of national security if you're trying to back-engineer that thing.
01:27:59.000Because it doesn't make any sense that you, some unelected official, some guy who's working in coordination with Raytheon or whatever the fuck you're doing...
01:28:21.000Look, again, if it's our stuff and we can't say anything about it because we can't let China know that we have that and we did huddle up these fucking physicists in some obscure college and we did create some wild shit that the Rest of the world is not really ready for or doesn't understand yet.
01:28:40.000Maybe we're way ahead of the curve in that.
01:28:43.000Other than that, you gotta fucking tell us.
01:28:46.000You gotta tell us what the fuck is going on.
01:30:18.000And we can integrate it into our knowledge.
01:30:20.000But I think there's an as important side of the conversation It's called discovery, if you will, right?
01:30:26.000But what can we learn in the public sphere outside of the classification window that allows us to understand what's going on outside of the reins and control of the government itself?
01:30:36.000And I feel like they're mutually supportive, right?
01:30:39.000The more disclosure and conversation there is within government, the more that people are motivated on the outside to investigate this and research it and invest into it.
01:30:48.000And the more that that work is done, it pressures the disclosure side of the conversation to keep up with the conversation and share with it.
01:30:56.000Now, I don't know if we're going to get to a point of full disclosure, like you just talked about, without increased pressure on the discovery side, on the public side, because I think they would be content to keep that information quiet.
01:31:09.000I don't know if Trump would be content to do that, you know, and I don't know if Tulsi would be content to do that either.
01:31:15.000You know, if she's going to be, she's what, the Director of National Intelligence?
01:31:46.000Fucking, you know, fighter jets of the 1980s.
01:31:49.000Imagine, like, the fighter jets that you flew in comparison to a fighter jet from, like, 1983. Yeah, no internet, really, to speak of, even back then.
01:31:57.000There was like a few computers connected, right, by physical cords or something, probably.
01:32:32.000So, 1989, he's saying that this thing, when it would fly, it would turn sideways.
01:32:41.000It would turn like 90 degrees, and that's where it would, whatever the fuck kind of generator that's inside of it, it would point it in the general direction it wanted to go.
01:32:53.000And what he's describing in this reactor is some sort of an element, and it's element 115. Whoever has created this thing is a stable version of this element, and when it's blasted with radiation, it creates some sort of a warp element.
01:33:12.000In space-time and in some way, whether it's gravity or whatever it does, it folds time and it just shoots off at insane rates of speed.
01:33:22.000But the things inside of it, I would imagine, aren't experiencing g-force the way it does the traditional propulsion system.
01:33:30.000It's the only way a biological thing could survive, right?
01:33:35.000But then I'm thinking, why would it even be biological if it's so much more advanced than us?
01:34:34.000Think about from like 2004 no iPhone to today what we've got and meta virtual reality sets.
01:34:40.000How many years have to pass before it's more effective to go through the world being completely integrated into like an artificial creation?
01:35:13.000I mean, fighter jets, they used to be barreling around out there looking for objects, looking for targets, but we're able to integrate and update all the technology that allows us to interact with the world.
01:35:22.000It's not put right into our brain yet, although they are working on that.
01:35:26.000So maybe those things are what happens when technology and biology integrate over a long period of time.
01:35:34.000And they probably have eliminated all of our primate Desires and weirdness that makes progress problematic.
01:35:46.000You know, greed and envy and trying to steal from resources from other countries and invasions and tribal behavior and manipulation and propaganda and lying.
01:35:57.000They probably can all read minds, so there's no more lying.
01:35:59.000And they've no need for physical muscles.
01:36:04.000That's why they look like these little fucking spindly things.
01:36:56.000Then you don't have to worry about all the biological issues that we deal with, all the cancer and fucking pollutants.
01:37:02.000You don't have to worry about any of that shit.
01:37:03.000And then you're inside this ship that you're completely connected to, and you can move it in any way you want.
01:37:12.000Might as well be your body at that point.
01:37:14.000It might as well be your body, and that's probably the future.
01:37:16.000That's probably the future here on Earth, even if we don't fuck this up.
01:37:20.000We talked about China a little bit and some theoretical ways they might be investing in these deeper technologies.
01:37:27.000I've spoken with people that are intimately involved in deep technology at the National Science Foundations and others.
01:37:34.000What brought them into this conversation?
01:37:36.000I realized that we were falling behind on these capabilities because they attended an international consortium.
01:37:45.000Believe it or not, there were several members from China there, and they very specifically were asking for collaboration in some of these very deep technologies.
01:37:54.000So, you know, we talked about how gravity manipulation kind of went dark for a while.
01:38:00.000Well, they call it something slightly different now, and it's something that China and others are actively researching.
01:38:04.000They call it extended electrodynamics.
01:38:07.000Same thing with What is the difference between saying gravity and extended electrodynamics?
01:38:13.000Yeah, so extended electrodynamics essentially is a series of equations that we utilize to understand the electromagnetic spectrum.
01:38:22.000But there's like a large portion of those equations that we kind of just throw out because we don't utilize them in our normal engineering and scientific work.
01:38:30.000So they're there, they're part of the equation, but we really don't know how to use them yet.
01:38:34.000And people are starting to think that by integrating the full understanding of electrodynamics to extended electrodynamics that there are gravitational effects that pop out that we can utilize for technology.
01:38:58.000Tell her story because it's a crazy one.
01:39:00.000Well, I might not know it as full as you do, but there have been a number of instances within the United States where people have been trying to do work to manipulate gravity through large concentrations of energy, electromagnetic effects, things of that nature.
01:39:16.000And very recently, I forget the year, I don't know if you have that information, Jamie, but...
01:39:23.000I think it was 2013 or around that time frame where she had kind of a breakout paper which she was claiming was utilizing some older techniques and she was able to modify the mass of an object, essentially the force of gravity upon it.
01:39:37.000My understanding is that paper went out and then she essentially disappeared for a number of months, like a year or two.
01:41:27.000So, if you were the government, let's just say they, you know, if you were them, and you wanted to work on some very, very advanced, if you had some knowledge that this stuff was possible, But you couldn't put it in the private sector because then it would get pilfered.
01:41:46.000It would get infiltrated by Chinese spies, which happens all the time, right?
01:41:52.000Wouldn't you squirrel it away somewhere?
01:41:53.000Like, if you're doing the right thing, if you're being intelligent about it, wouldn't you—if I wouldn't—it essentially can't be public because it is in the interest of national security because it's such a big deal.
01:42:07.000Like, if they develop a propulsion system— That is completely reliant on gravity.
01:42:14.000And they figure out, like, they're bending time, just flying places instantaneously.
01:42:20.000If that's the future of space travel, like, whoever gets there first, that's a big fucking deal.
01:42:36.000If we're the sole superpower in the world, Then I think it makes sense for us to hold that information back and develop it on our pace because we're not worried about competitors.
01:42:46.000They're going to catch up to us and potentially leapfrog us.
01:42:49.000But when we're operating in a world where we have near-peer or peer adversaries such as China that do have the ability to potentially work on the same technology, that's where the model breaks down a bit, right?
01:43:01.000Because if we're artificially slowing our progress in order to maintain the secrecy, And someone is catching up to us, our only real solution at that point is to activate, you know, the millions of super smart and motivated people in our country to start pushing ourselves ahead, lest we get leapfrogged by countries that can do that through their own private investment, such as China.
01:44:08.000It's so crazy, and it's, you know, it's one of those stories where it's basically impossible to validate it.
01:44:13.000So, you know, like a lot of the stories I hear, you know, I often don't have all this evidence that I can work from, so I, you know, I throw it in the database in my head, and I look for comparisons, right?
01:44:23.000Just like the gimbal video and how it maneuvers.
01:45:56.000That's why, you know, with these cases in New Jersey, what's most compelling for me are these, like, they're not the images themselves, but it's these elected officials, you know, law enforcement officers and others that are, like, very flabbergasted at what they saw, right?
01:46:10.000They're not just like, well, yeah, there's something, but, I mean, they're pissed off.
01:46:14.000They're very confident what they were seeing was not normal.
01:46:16.000They're having a hard time putting words to it and having a proper photo, but...
01:46:21.000As you can tell now, I think it's not easy to just put your iPhone up in the sky and grab a photo of something that's far away, right?
01:47:06.000And so these guys were kind of suspicious of whether or not this thing was actually taking a photo and zooming in and getting a photo of the moon.
01:47:14.000So they put a blurry photo of the moon on a screen and then stepped to the back end of the room and zoomed in on the blurry photo that's on the screen and it filled it in with like high resolution and showed you all the craters.
01:48:01.000You know, I think we can only motivate the government so much by just knocking on the door and asking for information.
01:48:06.000There needs to be a public, unclassified scientific investigation into this from the perspective of trying to attack it as a scientific anomaly, right?
01:48:15.000Instead of trying to attack it from a request from the government to release new information.
01:48:20.000So, I mean, I think this should be a national priority, frankly, right?
01:48:24.000We need to have very senior people within the White House that care about this topic, that are leading the charge, perhaps at the Office of Science and Technology Policy, somewhere at that level that can lead this conversation and start to employ different organizations in a public, unclassified manner.
01:48:41.000Such as Department of Energy, such as the FBI and other reporting sources, so that we can be able to gather this information, investigate it, and then form theories about how we can detect it, whether that be through NEXRAD data in the United States, whether that be through weather satellites, other large data sets that we can use to detect these disturbances.
01:49:05.000And work with the Department of Energy to be able to put forward scientific ideas and then utilize their compute resources to be able to process and churn through all this data and see what pops out on the other side.
01:49:16.000And I think that we can bring in organizations such as the National Science Foundation or National Science Council.
01:49:23.000We can bring in National Science Foundation, excuse me.
01:49:26.000We can bring in offices such as the Office of Strategic Capital and start to actually support the public interest in this conversation by having people that now can access these large datasets and these large compute to be able to run experiments, to bring forward new datasets and technologies, and have this be like a true national effort at a high level.
01:49:47.000I don't think that the current structure of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office within the Pentagon serving as a whole of government Point is going to be effective, especially considering that they are technically charged with investigating potential crimes of the Pentagon itself, right?
01:50:04.000So this needs to be raised to a much higher level.
01:50:06.000And we have the resources in the United States to truly study this.
01:50:10.000And I think by doing that, we could then, you know, potentially confirm what is being discovered through this unclassified method with classified censors, but leave it so that it's repeatable And unclassified so that the scientific and academic community can see the results of that and work off of it.
01:50:27.000Would there be an issue with you would have to provide amnesty to the people that could potentially allied in these programs?
01:50:36.000So like if you've diverted funding, if you've not been I'm completely honest to Congress about where the funding is going and you've had some sort of a back engineering program or whatever they have.
01:50:50.000Would there be like criminal liabilities?
01:50:53.000Would there be issues where a bunch of these people could get prosecuted?
01:50:59.000So that would, if I was them, I would, you know, I'd keep hiding it.
01:51:03.000I'd be like, fuck this, I don't want to go to jail.
01:51:05.000But if you wanted to get full disclosure, it would seem like the only way to effectively make it happen would be to give amnesty to the people that had committed these crimes.
01:51:16.000So it would become a real dilemma if they were actually crimes.
01:51:20.000There could be another way to approach it.
01:51:21.000So one thing, especially at the last hearings we've heard, is that there needs to be stronger whistleblower protection laws, right?
01:51:45.000We've had thousands of people that have come forward and shared classified information with Congress outside the bounds of the executive order that allows for the creation of classified information.
01:51:56.000None of them have been ever prosecuted.
01:51:59.000Now, they may have faced ramifications such as a loss of security clearance.
01:52:08.000But the way the system is currently set up, there's an executive order that allows for the creation of classified information.
01:52:16.000You have the National Security Act that was created in Congress and signed by the president.
01:52:22.000And these are the two laws that essentially allow for the creation of that type of information.
01:52:26.000So when a whistleblower goes to Congress and shares that information, the Congress people are just as susceptible and vulnerable, perhaps, to having classified information that they're not privy to, right?
01:52:40.000So they're in legal jeopardy in a sense.
01:52:42.000For there to be prosecutions in Congress or from the whistleblowers themselves, the Supreme Court would have to step in and adjudicate that ruling between that executive order and the National Security Act.
01:52:56.000They don't want to step in on that legislation.
01:52:59.000They've had, you know, I don't know how many years, but decades and opportunities to do so, but they choose not to.
01:53:05.000So we're in this kind of stalemate where by action, by inaction, whistleblowers have this unspoken protection, if you will, to come in and share that information, lest the Supreme Court step in and change their precedent for the past several decades.
01:53:21.000So there's no reason that any of these potentially susceptible whistleblowers that do fear legal ramifications for those activities couldn't come in to Congress, set up a very quiet meeting, share what they have with these Congress people, and allow them to then run with that information, clearly away from any personal identification from that whistleblower.
01:53:45.000We don't have whistleblowers doing that, and I think some of the messaging has been inaccurate claiming that we need to have stronger whistleblower protection laws because that's probably not going to happen.
01:54:00.000I don't think he wants to enable people that would be calling out actions of the executive branch to Congress strengthened.
01:54:08.000That's not necessarily aligned with some of the activities that happened with Colonel Vindman and the Ukraine incident, where they essentially utilize those whistleblower laws to share information with Congress about what they perceived as wrongdoings.
01:54:20.000So I don't see those laws getting stronger.
01:54:24.000But we're in this kind of weird false dichotomy right now where people are asking for them and not willing to come forward.
01:54:30.000But ultimately, I think we just need someone to step up to the plate and come forward to Congress with this information to be able to move the conversation forward on the disclosure side.
01:54:38.000So what you're saying to me, what it sounds like is like you're almost like advocating for a complete restructuring of how the information gets disclosed.
01:54:48.000Instead of the way they're doing it now, like someone come in and sort it out.
01:54:59.000Because I think you're uniquely qualified and obviously very invested in this.
01:55:03.000You wouldn't want someone who's not invested in this leading this.
01:55:08.000This is a super complicated, nuanced rabbit hole that you have to go down and you have to be balancing out all the possibilities in your head at the same time while you're trying to get this information out.
01:55:18.000And whatever you guys experienced, whatever those things were, if that isn't ours, we should probably know.
01:56:23.000Step two is I've been a lot like a blind man touching an elephant.
01:56:27.000You know, I don't know necessarily it's an elephant yet, but I'm feeling a tail, feeling a trunk, feeling the foot.
01:56:34.000And what that elephant represents is the government's classified work on this topic.
01:56:40.000I've butted up against it through people that have been actively engaged in programs that are investigating this in ways that are not public.
01:56:49.000So I know that there is something there behind the scenes.
01:57:06.000It would be a line that the government would be very interested in this technology.
01:57:10.000And I think it's, you know, I think it's time that we've put the proper protocols and processes in place so that the public can discover this information.
01:57:21.000Like, it's not that we don't have the technology.
01:57:24.000I mean, I'm personally working on space situational awareness sensors that we can put in space in order to maintain custody of these objects.
01:57:31.000Now, if no one has ever gone full disclosure, no president, how much do you think they tell them?
01:57:39.000And what, if anything, could you even imagine would be a valid reason for not telling people?
01:57:46.000I think that there was probably a presidential order at some point in the past that is likely still in effect.
01:57:54.000And, you know, unless another president is fully read in and countermands that order, then it's business as usual.
01:58:03.000And perhaps that's one of the reasons they don't tell presidents a lot of information on this is because they want to maintain that effect of authority, keep it in play, so that another president doesn't countermand it.
01:58:14.000Yeah, because none of them spill the beans.
01:58:44.000And we might have integrated some of these capabilities into some of our technology that we might look out the window and see, right?
01:58:51.000But deep in the bowels of the system, you know, there might be capabilities that were discovered or motivated through the investigation of these objects, right?
01:59:02.000And I don't believe that 100% of the information should come out.
01:59:05.000You know, I mean, I've worked in secured information, I've worked in the military, I understand the needs for these capabilities, but the core information, that we're not alone in the universe, potentially, there's no government on Earth that has a right to hold that information.
02:00:04.000Maybe we'd have, you know, less Facebook apps and things of that nature and AI wrappers, but we would be working on deep, important technology that's going to unlock the rest of the universe to us.
02:00:15.000Or we'd give in to our alien overlords.
02:00:18.000Because they're coming and they're going to be super powerful.
02:00:20.000And every civilization that we've ever encountered that was primitive always had a terrible go of it once we showed up.
02:00:28.000Well, I would hope they wouldn't be us, that they would be past what...
02:00:32.000Look, human beings today, especially if you follow like Steven Pinker's work where you look at crime and violence throughout history, human beings today live in the safest environment that's ever existed for people, relatively overall, despite all of our problems.
02:00:57.000Just, like, a complete shut-off of everything.
02:01:03.000That's what you would have to be if you were a civilization that's eclipsing all the problems that we have here on Earth, that's bypassing all the war, all the bullshit, the destroying the environment, the inequality and the allocation of resources and the control of the populace.
02:01:20.000That's all out the window with this super, super sophisticated society.
02:01:26.000I think that is – that should motivate us like probably more than anything to get our shit together, to realize like this is possible.
02:01:34.000Like this is the trajectory that these intelligent species go through on their road to evolution, their road to enlightenment.
02:01:42.000And they bypass this terrible stage that we're at right now where we're worried that these drones are searching for nuclear bombs because someone might decide to do some sort of a terrorist thing.
02:01:52.000Because, you know, there's wars going on over the...
02:01:55.000If we could just know that you can get past that.
02:02:00.000It's like we're in a phase where our technological development is outpacing our social and moral development.
02:02:26.000It's so inescapable in today's society that if you want to be integrated into today's society, you have to have one of those goddamn phones.
02:02:35.000Like, we're moving in this very particular direction, and it seems like if we get through this chaos, what these things that we're visiting, that are visiting us, all of the things that people describe, Of telekinetic communication, telepathic communication, the ability to explain things to them in a way that clarifies what they're here for and why they're here.
02:03:04.000It sounds exactly like what we would do if we could get past all the problems of being a human being in 2024 and all the violence and chaos.
02:03:15.000If we got past that, that's what we'd become.
02:03:17.000We'd become some star-faring creature that's completely enlightened and shows up and is just checking on the apes to make sure they don't blow themselves up.
02:03:26.000It must be a hell of a time to come watch us, right?
02:03:52.000Or maybe they're the robot custodians of the God-creating intelligent beings.
02:03:57.000And that all they're doing is sent for AI. AI created them.
02:04:01.000And sent them out into the universe so that when the apes get to the point where they start making nuclear weapons and bombs and reactors and cold fusion and gravity, you like, just make sure they get through this, okay, boom!
02:04:13.000And then whatever the fuck quantum computing connected to AI becomes, that's what, it's like we're farming that.
02:04:20.000That's something I thought about, you know, when you talk about biological creatures in these crafts, you know, it could be that those are not things that traveled here from far away and are just kind of hanging out, right?
02:04:34.000They might have created these objects, even the biological substrates, if you will, here, using local materials and put them together because perhaps biological creatures are more...
02:04:48.000Appropriate for the type of interactions they need to do instead of a fixed machine, right?
02:04:53.000Yeah, that completely makes sense, right?
02:04:55.000Like, if you can create life, which they're very close to being able to create fake artificial life, like single cell forms, haven't they created, like, aren't they creating artificial embryos?
02:05:12.000I believe they have started like animal embryos.
02:05:42.000I didn't think they were human Synthetic human embryos using stem cells and a groundbreaking advance that sidesteps the need for eggs or sperm.
02:06:33.000The only thing that would change my mind on that is if they truly have some kind of faster and light travel that allowed them to transport, you know, physical objects from extreme distances to nearby.
02:06:47.000Because then the cost of sending that information is irrelevant because they can just send things over.
02:06:52.000So I could see both sides of it, but it's something interesting to think about.
02:06:57.000Imagine the science and technology fields that a full understanding of this conversation would open up.
02:07:03.000I mean, it would open up fields of knowledge that we can only imagine right now.
02:07:42.000Like the people that research these things, whether or not that's even real, but the people that, I haven't seen it, the people that say they go there and find these fragments on the ground, they refer to it as donations.
02:07:57.000One thing I like to think about is, you know, their planet, you know, we're making a lot of assumptions here, but their planet might be designed a different way, right?
02:08:06.000Like their atmosphere might have significantly less oxygen.
02:08:11.000And so they might have had, they might have bypassed this whole period where they had rocket propulsions and gas shooting out the back.
02:08:19.000And so they, they might have taken them longer to get the space, but maybe they did so with a much more developed technology.
02:08:26.000So then they apply that technology, they come over here, and now they're in a regime that perhaps they were unexpecting.
02:08:33.000There's gravity disturbances, there's more oxygen in the air, there's different things that perhaps they either weren't expecting or just was different than their home environment.
02:08:44.000And then, oh, by the way, there's these stupid apes that are shining stuff at us that are launching nuclear weapons and actually knocking us out of the sky.
02:09:01.000Maybe that's not the right way to think about it.
02:09:03.000Well, also maybe think about the sheer numbers.
02:09:07.000So if we think that these things are real, so let's imagine they're actually coming from another planet.
02:09:12.000So if they are coming from another planet and they're capable of coming here, that means other planets are capable of sustaining intelligent life that can be starfarers.
02:09:21.000So if that's possible here and there, it's probably all over the place.
02:09:26.000So if it's all over the place, Who knows how many numbers of things you're dealing with and how far advanced they are?
02:09:33.000And like you said, like what technology did they develop?
02:09:37.000We think – we always think technology is like completely linear and we think that like what we did and the way we did it is the only way it can be done.
02:09:45.000But the best evidence that's not true is Egypt.
02:09:48.000The best evidence that that's not true exists.
02:10:16.000But whatever it is, it's insanely impressive and a different sort of way of implementing human ingenuity and engineering and thought into construction.
02:10:27.000It's very different than anything we've done.
02:10:32.000Like they had an enormous amount of resources in that area and they had sustained a civilization there for thousands and thousands of years to the point there.
02:10:40.000They had developed methods and technologies that we don't understand today.
02:10:55.000A lot of people can go out and look at it.
02:10:56.000I mean, sure, I've never been in the pyramids, but, you know, the information is there if you're willing to go look at it.
02:11:02.000And there's this massive stigma within the academic community to say, no, no, that's not right.
02:11:07.000Because they're in this zero-sum game.
02:11:09.000They're all trying to win the next contract and grant, and they just want to stay right within the line of what's acceptable.
02:11:16.000And he's bringing forward very interesting points about a time period that I think we all understand now is a lot less understood than we thought.
02:11:24.000There's also parallel civilizations that coexisted with European civilizations that are very similar to what we know about in history that were like the Mayans.
02:11:34.000Like, what the fuck was going on in Mexico?
02:11:50.000I think it's in that book, A Strange New Land.
02:11:54.000But when they first encountered these people, before they gave them diseases, they had this insane civilization with gold headdresses and ornate dressing, and everybody's like, what is this?
02:12:05.000There's insane stone structures and human sacrifice.
02:12:11.000What the fuck are you guys doing here?
02:12:13.000Like this is a totally, completely different type of civilization.
02:12:17.000While in Europe they're wearing fucking wigs and they're trotting around and like all coexisting.
02:12:22.000So we know that human beings can go in very different directions in terms of the way their society develops and the technologies they implement.
02:12:32.000Why wouldn't we think that that would be the case with everything in the known universe?
02:12:36.000Like everything in the known universe.
02:12:37.000There's probably an infinite number of paths that intelligent creatures can go to creating technology.
02:12:44.000And like you were saying, some of them might take like way longer than our path of implementing combustion engines and electronics.
02:12:55.000They might be using some sort of different way of generating energy that we don't understand.
02:13:01.000Maybe their planet has super strong electromagnetic fields, right?
02:13:04.000And so they can leverage that in a way we can't.
02:13:06.000Well, the thing Lazar was talking about was that this planet had a stable version of this element 115. But I think, I mean, what does that even mean?
02:13:21.000And it was all theoretical until the Large Hadron Collider, they developed a version of it for, you know, a millisecond so they know that it's a real thing.
02:13:32.000He's saying they have a stable version.
02:13:33.000I'm like, well, if you live in a completely different solar system and a completely different planet with completely different...
02:13:38.000There's planets out there that are made entirely of diamonds.
02:13:48.000Like, I think that there's probably an infinite number of ways intelligent life evolves, and some of it probably doesn't look anything like us.
02:13:59.000Like, octopuses, they have no need, because they're in the ocean, and there's no houses in the ocean, so they have no need to, like, build things, but they're super smart, man.
02:14:34.000An eye was developed for them and an eye was developed for us.
02:14:37.000And we branched off from the evolutionary chain who knows how many hundreds of millions of years ago.
02:14:44.000I learned a pretty interesting little tidbit here.
02:14:47.000You know, I mean, the octopus, apparently its DNA is not like anything else on this planet, but apparently the Hawaiians have an ancient tradition that octopus basically came from the sky.
02:15:00.000That is interesting, but, you know, with panspermia, they do think that it's possible that planets, when they get hit by asteroids, a big chunk of it can fly off and the DNA from that rock can enter into this new environment.
02:15:16.000And with some things, like spores, spores survive in a vacuum.
02:15:20.000That's one of the thoughts about psilocybin mushrooms, that perhaps they arrived here from somewhere else on a rock, which is a real possibility.
02:15:29.000That's where most of the iridium that they find when they do those big digs and they find that layer of iridium that's near where there's an asteroid impact.
02:15:37.000That's all just shit that came from space.
02:15:41.000I mean, if you look back at, like, the evolution of humans to monkeys to, you know, fish and then, you know, multicellular organisms and the introduction of the mitochondria, smaller, simple, single-cell organisms, there's a very linear path of evolution.
02:15:57.000And very early on, there's a massive jump where we went from extremely simple bits and pieces to essentially this big jump in complexity for these small systems.
02:16:12.000And there's a theory out there that that jump occurred due to seeding from elsewhere, right?
02:16:20.000That perhaps the whole path is linear.
02:16:23.000And it occurred over time, perhaps, and they think the time period is like several billion years, right, for the evolution from these components to get to essentially a single-celled organism, that these components evolved independently in space, perhaps feeding off a gamma radiation or other gamma energy or other energies that are out in space.
02:16:46.000And so that evolutionary process did take billions of years.
02:16:49.000It just didn't occur on a particular planet.
02:16:51.000And then over time, as meteorites hit the Earth, then we see this uptake in complexity because of the arrival and then the further evolution of the biological chain that led to us.
02:17:03.000And, you know, it's pretty interesting, kind of tied to that theory, is that, you know, the Big Bang happened, and things, you know, gradually cooled down.
02:17:11.000I mean, there was a point where, and I think the number is like 500,000 years, where the universe was essentially room temperature.
02:17:19.000Like, everywhere in the universe had like a distribution of temperature that was equivalent to what we're sitting in right now before it continued to cool off and get weird.
02:17:28.000So there could have been these opportunities in the universal process that allowed for the development of lifelike components that eventually went out to seed the universe, which would be a really interesting concept because it would lead us to believe that this probably happened in multiple places and not just here.
02:17:45.000That is a fascinating idea that it's like seeds.
02:17:48.000And, I mean, that's the function that these asteroids have when...
02:17:53.000That's what happens when they land and they spread whatever's on them.
02:17:57.000You could imagine, like, that's the function of asteroids slamming into planets, knocking chunks off, and flying that stuff into space.
02:18:05.000That's why we have water here, you know?
02:18:07.000I mean, we didn't just organically, like, create water on this planet.
02:18:11.000It came from asteroids and other debris.
02:19:59.000In recent weeks, rumors spread rapidly on social media, I think I was involved in that, suggesting that NASA's James Webb Telescope had made an extraordinary discovery, potentially alien life, and the members of Congress had been briefed about it.
02:20:11.000The rumors intensified after U.S. Representative Andre Carson, who had previously chaired a congressional hearing on unidentified aerial phenomena, Decline to answer a question about classified briefings when asked by, I don't know who that is, run by journalist Matt Laszlo on X. He's been doing good work on the UAP topic.
02:20:36.000Speculation prompted a Freedom of Information Act request filled by the Black Bolt on September 22nd, 2024, seeking any records classified or unclassified about James Webb Space Telescope briefings provided to Congress, particularly related to the telescope's findings.
02:20:52.000The request aimed to clarify whether any congressional briefings had been held about significant discoveries Made by the telescope, which has been in operation since 2021. So the response was, a copy of records, which includes videos,
02:21:08.000photos, electronic or otherwise, of all briefings about James Webb's telescope and program made for Congress, I ask that you include all classified and unclassified briefings on the James Webb telescope program or briefings on findings made by that program.
02:21:25.000It says those searches located no records responsive to your request.
02:22:18.000You know, we've gone down the rabbit hole with some fun speculative conversation about what's out in space, but I just want to make the point that this is still a solvable problem here on planet Earth, right?
02:22:29.000We can't let the fun speculation of what's going on out in the universe stop these kind of stodgy academics and others to say, well, this is not relevant to me.
02:23:12.000And, of course, by people knowing, they're going to want to have some evidence that they can use to do research on.
02:23:18.000But even if the president just came out the other day or, you know, in the next week or in a few months and said, we don't know what they are.
02:23:26.000We have moderate to high confidence that they don't originate through any known adversary or nation on Earth.
02:24:07.000So I think with the folks that are friendly to this topic coming in with the Trump administration open up a very key opportunity window for us to move this conversation forward.
02:24:19.000When you look at it from their perspective, what would rationalize...
02:24:27.000If you look at it from their perspective, what could possibly be the case where they think it would be good to propagandize or sway people in that direction?
02:24:40.000To stop our adversaries being aware of the reality situation and from investing into it.
02:24:45.000And proceeding past, because again, we're artificially constraining ourselves, right?
02:24:51.000Because we're trying to keep it a secret.
02:24:57.000That game is changing because it appears that China is making investments and has a large amount of interest in this topic.
02:25:06.000And we're at a point now where if we continue to do that, we're going to simply fall behind.
02:25:10.000And I think there's been this delay within the Biden administration to just kind of ignore that problem for whatever problem is more relevant.
02:25:20.000He's probably more worried about his son and the legal issues he's in than this massive issue.
02:26:37.000Well, I don't remember it, but I remember learning about it.
02:26:40.000He talked about how united we would all be if the threat of an alien invasion was happening on Earth, how quickly we would put aside our differences.
02:26:48.000Well, that's why we have the red phone with Russia, right?
02:28:16.000And if we did have disclosure, what can you imagine?
02:28:20.000Let's imagine that you get into this position and it's your job to get this information out to the public.
02:28:27.000What kind of resistance do you think you're going to face?
02:28:29.000Because it seems like if there's been deals that have been done with defense contractors, that's how you kind of have to have work on it, right?
02:28:42.000You kind of have to get contractors on this thing.
02:28:45.000You're going to have to get the best and the brightest.
02:28:47.000You've got a fucking UFO. I figured this out.
02:28:50.000We haven't had support from the top in the past, right?
02:28:54.000So, were I in such a position, you would have to have me working closely with the White House, and you would have to have the White House's buy-in on this.
02:29:05.000And from the top of the executive branch, you use that position of influence, you pass additional, you know, presidential memorandums and executive orders.
02:29:14.000That countermand previous memorandums that may have existed in the past in order to legally compel these organizations from the chief executive to be able to move the conversation forward, to require them to bring this information out, to require them to collaborate.
02:29:31.000And it doesn't have to be a one-person job.
02:29:33.000You bring in some of the brightest people in our country in order to evaluate this data, come to a conclusion, and then share those conclusions with the American people.
02:29:42.000Okay, let's imagine you get this position and you go through this search and you find out that this is all our technology and that we can't allow China or Russia to know that we're capable of using these kind of technologies that are unheard of right now.
02:30:00.000So we have to keep it as a national security secret.
02:30:56.000Where the fuck are you guys hiding those?
02:30:58.000Because if that's real, that's the end.
02:31:00.000All you have to do is bring the president to the crash site, and you bring him into the warehouse, and you show him this thing, and you walk around it, and you go, what the fuck is this?
02:32:09.000I think they would probably amplify it.
02:32:12.000And it would, I think, have the equivalent impact of a positive nuclear bomb on our economy.
02:32:18.000We would have certainty in what direction to invest in and what technologies to pursue.
02:32:24.000And I think that by having that direction, that would, again, nuclear bomb level increase in capabilities where we would be able to, you know, be working on propulsion and energy systems and material systems that would advance us well beyond where we are today.
02:32:41.000And if we sit on our hands, we don't do that, we're going to find our adversaries in a position to do that instead, which would completely rewrite the geopolitical environment.
02:32:52.000If we reach technological proficiency in all this AI stuff and quantum, if we reach this first, then what do you think that looks like?
02:33:07.000I think, well, we already are in AI to some degree, but I don't think it's a technology you can necessarily contain to one country.
02:33:14.000I mean, China already has their own AI out there.
02:33:17.000So I think it's going to be somewhat business as usual, at least on the AI side.
02:33:21.000Quantum computing, a little bit different.
02:33:23.000The technology investment is much higher, but still, if China can come in and potentially steal that technology and replicate it, then we're just in another level of arms race at that point.
02:33:36.000But if we have the ability to invest in deep technologies that we aware have an endpoint in reality, instead of having to guess the strategic value of something, it's going to allow us to focus our resources in a way that we haven't had the opportunity to do in this country.
02:33:51.000That's a great rose-colored glasses view of it.
02:34:43.000It's a complete revamping of our position in the universe.
02:34:46.000If we do realize we're part of a community of intelligent life that's in the universe, and that it just takes a while for you to be technologically sophisticated enough where you can communicate or travel to these places.
02:35:02.000And then we just realize, like, the lights come on, there's like a billion eyes out there staring back at us like, whoa, we're all connected in this thing.
02:35:10.000I think it would give us a lot of reason to collaborate.
02:35:13.000It would give us a lot of reason to collaborate.
02:35:15.000And like Ronald Reagan was saying, it would force us to recognize that we really are one thing here on planet Earth.
02:35:44.000But it's pretty strange that in the meanwhile, like in what we're facing today with these superpowers duking it out and trying to develop technological and military dominance, this would be in the movie the exact time that alien life would start showing up.
02:36:01.000If you're gonna have a movie where the aliens come to make sure we don't kill ourselves, now would be arrival time.
02:36:09.000It's like we're all sitting in Plato's cave, duking it out, arguing about what's on the wall, when a few people are creeping upstairs, realizing that we have a lot bigger things to worry about.
02:36:46.000Well, people like yourself bringing attention to this topic, Joe, is huge.
02:36:50.000I think the momentum that we've seen over the past three, four, five, eight years since I've been doing this is really changing the conversation.
02:37:01.000I work this every single day, Joe, seven days a week.
02:37:04.000And the amount of people that are changing their tune and coming around to this conversation at all levels of engineering, scientific background, financial resources, is absolutely huge.
02:37:15.000And I think the pressure is going to continue to build.
02:37:17.000And I think that the opportunity we have here with the new administration is unprecedented.
02:37:21.000And I think we need to do everything we can do to leverage that to move the conversation to a point of no return.
02:37:51.000How do you think this, if you had to guess, how do you think this drone thing gets resolved?
02:37:54.000I mean, they can't just stay in the sky.
02:37:56.000I have this kind of pit in my stomach that this will probably stop in like a week or two, and then we won't learn anything new.
02:38:03.000Now I don't know if that's how it's going to play out, but that would be consistent with what happened in past years.
02:38:13.000Do you think it's possible that they're just testing to see how people would react to drones flying around in space?
02:38:24.000Due to the lack of coordination in government on this topic, I would assume if that's what they were doing, they would have had a better plan to communicate.
02:38:32.000But why would they communicate with state and local authorities if they could do it in a way where they get clearance to do it and it's a need-to-know thing and they just have these things fly around just to gauge how the public's perception would be?
02:38:49.000Even within the federal government, there seems to be confusion.
02:38:52.000I'm not even referring to local government and law enforcement.
02:38:56.000I'm talking about government agencies that are actively investigating this.
02:39:00.000They seem to be out of the loop as well.
02:39:02.000If they are trying to trick us, when I mean us, I mean basically everyone, even within the government, even what people need to know.
02:39:11.000I mean, it's so hard for me to rationalize that they would be willing to manipulate 95% of the government in order to run some kind of experiment or social test with unclear value at the end of that chain, right?
02:39:27.000Like, what exactly are they preparing us for?
02:39:29.000Is it a broader integration of UAP knowledge into our conversation?
02:39:35.000That's the only thing I could think that would require such secrecy.
02:39:42.000Do we have drones that are capable of doing exactly what these things are doing?
02:40:01.000I would have to make the assumption that the government with the defense community has built various drones that are capable of doing similar things for deployment overseas.
02:40:12.000So again, there's not one video, I know we've looked a little bit, for one that exhibits capabilities that gives us a high level of confidence that they're completely unusual.
02:40:24.000But we're not seeing that necessarily, so I can't jump to that conclusion yet based off of the information that's being presented.
02:40:29.000But the overall activities of all these objects and the historical consistency with other sightings in this part of the country lend me to still consider that there's anomalous activity that's going on in this area.
02:40:44.000Anomalous in terms of what we know we're capable of?
02:41:01.000We have very sophisticated radar systems on the eastern seaboard, including in New Jersey.
02:41:06.000So to have objects that are able to essentially evade those detection mechanisms and appear mysterious and disappear over the ocean or come from the ocean in a way that's untrackable should not be possible.
02:41:22.000That's why we have these billion-dollar systems.
02:41:25.000So have we developed these capabilities?
02:41:28.000Not just radar, but infrared, being able to block infrared, and even being able to detect objects in their proximity and even turn their lights off, right?
02:41:37.000And of course, these aren't magical technologies.
02:41:40.000We can probably imagine a path there, but it creates a lot of uncertainty about the origin of these objects and their intent, right?
02:41:47.000Are we trying to evade our own capabilities and cause a mass panic over our own country?
02:41:53.000Is this a foreign adversary that has had breakthroughs in these capabilities?
02:41:57.000Not just breakthroughs in these capabilities, but, you know, Iran and China and Russia, for them to be operating off the eastern seaboard, it's not a small task, right?
02:42:05.000To, like, load up a ship, have it be stealthy, and then launch all these drones without a point of origin.
02:42:11.000That's not a trivial problem for them, right?
02:42:15.000We're the only countries in the world that has a true global navy, and it would even be difficult for us to do.
02:42:22.000You know, I mean, are there civilians operating these?
02:42:26.000Hundreds of drones without detection, without flaw, without failure, without crashing?
02:42:30.000Very, very strange that that would be the case as well.
02:42:33.000So again, I can't – I look at all these different options, and I can see a rationale to say, okay, some of these are not exhibiting capabilities that make me think it came from somewhere else necessarily.
02:42:47.000But all these kind of facts lined up one after another makes it really anomalous and quite the mystery still.
02:42:53.000But again, I think we can figure this out, Joe.
02:42:55.000Like we can get the proper technology there.
02:43:10.000I'm going to take RF receivers from Counter Drone Technologies.
02:43:14.000I'm going to go out into these hot spots.
02:43:17.000We're going to be looking for the signals that they may be emitting.
02:43:20.000And then using mobile platforms, we'll be there to be able to detect the strength of the signals and we'll essentially follow them, see where they go.
02:43:27.000And that might include, you know, operating an aircraft, that might include a ship offshore that we can hand off this information to so they can track them when they go over the water.
02:43:39.000So if there is a ship that's launching them off the coast, What kind of technological capabilities would that ship have to have to be there undetected, where they don't know where these things are coming from?
02:43:52.000How far away would it have to be where that's even feasible?
02:45:46.000Well, listen, I hope you get a phone call.
02:45:49.000I hope you get a phone call and somebody listens to this and says that sounds like it would be a good thing for everybody if we knew what the hell was going on.
02:45:59.000But again, without you out there telling your story and guys like Commander David Fravor and all these different people that have had these experiences and encountered things and are aware of it and know that it's a real issue.
02:46:16.000Without real credible voices like yourself, this conversation falls into the hands of silly people like me.
02:46:32.000But when guys like you come out and talk about it, and when, you know, the New York Times writes that article in 2017, and you get the gimbal video and the go-fast video, all of a sudden it's like, okay, this is a phenomenon.
02:46:51.000I mean, within government, when they communicate, it's clear from the Pentagon to the executive branch to legislative branch that, yes, there are objects.
02:47:41.000If it wasn't for people like you that had the courage to come out and talk about these things, because I know there was a long time where airline pilots, a lot of different people just didn't want to talk about their experiences because it seemed like they were silly, and they would be mocked.