The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2250

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Oh, we're up.

00:00:13.000 That's it the chef is in the building ladies and gentlemen, what's up?

00:00:16.000 What's up?

00:00:17.000 Pleasure to meet you man You are a part of the most iconic band in all of hip-hop.

00:00:22.000 There is no question.

00:00:23.000 There's one Wu-Tang There's only one Wu-Tang nothing else is even close You guys are so different than every other band that ever existed.

00:00:31.000 It was a giant group of you.

00:00:33.000 No Yeah, man.

00:00:34.000 And everybody was a killer.

00:00:36.000 Fucking mob, man.

00:00:37.000 It's a crazy band, man.

00:00:39.000 If you think about it, there's been a lot of hip-hop duos.

00:00:43.000 There's been a lot of producers and MCs.

00:00:46.000 There's been a lot of people that get together in small groups.

00:00:49.000 But there's only one Wu-Tang.

00:00:52.000 There's only one group of nine assassins.

00:00:55.000 I tell niggas that all the time.

00:00:57.000 It's kind of crazy.

00:00:58.000 You ain't gonna get another one of these.

00:01:00.000 It's crazy that it worked.

00:01:02.000 Yeah.

00:01:02.000 Because it's so hard to keep all those alphas together.

00:01:04.000 It really is crazy.

00:01:06.000 To make it work, the most illest shit, some shit that I never would have thought would ever exist, it was able to exist because we tried it, but it wasn't It wasn't normal.

00:01:18.000 It wasn't normal.

00:01:19.000 It wasn't normal.

00:01:20.000 You tried it, but it almost seems like it was just instinct.

00:01:24.000 Like, it's not like a business strategy that anybody would ever come up with.

00:01:29.000 Right.

00:01:30.000 Nine dudes?

00:01:31.000 Nah.

00:01:31.000 And nine of the realest dudes?

00:01:34.000 Like, the rawest, realest dudes?

00:01:36.000 Yeah.

00:01:37.000 And it worked?

00:01:38.000 Yeah, and it worked.

00:01:38.000 It worked.

00:01:39.000 And it worked?

00:01:39.000 I tell people all the time, it was like when RZA, you know, he came with this whole philosophy of wanting to do it, it was like hitting a lotto for him.

00:01:47.000 Like, he didn't know what to expect.

00:01:49.000 It was more a reputation thing for us.

00:01:51.000 It was like, yo, I want to do this.

00:01:53.000 And, you know, he came to block and he talked to some real dudes that really had other shit planned in their life.

00:02:00.000 You know, but hip-hop was always like that backpack that we wore every day.

00:02:04.000 But everybody had different plans, so he really literally came in and started to pick motherfuckers that he felt had potential.

00:02:11.000 So it's like the mob.

00:02:13.000 It's like, you know, Lucky Luciano, prime example.

00:02:18.000 You know, he knew that motherfuckers had potential, right?

00:02:22.000 He knew dudes had potential in any way.

00:02:24.000 He's from a different part.

00:02:27.000 But yo, what we could do right here is we could make money.

00:02:32.000 So put your fucking feelings down or whatever the case may be.

00:02:36.000 And let's talk about some money.

00:02:38.000 And that right there, kinda like, yo, you start shaking hands across the table.

00:02:44.000 Yo, I know you didn't really fuck with me like that, yo.

00:02:46.000 I never had anything against you like that, though.

00:02:48.000 But it was just something that he felt like at the end of the day.

00:02:53.000 Let me try this shit.

00:02:55.000 Well, RZA's a genius.

00:02:56.000 And it's amazing that he was able to coordinate that.

00:03:00.000 Because that's often the case, right?

00:03:02.000 With other killers, like when a dude's a bad motherfucker, they always assume that everybody else doesn't like them.

00:03:09.000 They always assume that everybody else is the enemy or competition.

00:03:13.000 So to have nine of you guys together like that as one group, you know, we always, I told you when I sent you a message, I said that we play Protect Your Neck.

00:03:22.000 I know.

00:03:23.000 Whenever we have a police escort, that's what's the most hilarious thing.

00:03:26.000 So we do arena shows, we hire a police escort.

00:03:29.000 So it's like fucking sirens and shit, Protect Your Neck!

00:03:33.000 It's like the perfect song to play when you're getting a police escort.

00:03:38.000 Nah, I know.

00:03:39.000 I know.

00:03:39.000 Trust me.

00:03:40.000 These young kids that I have at the club, like I was explaining Wu-Tang Clan to them the other night.

00:03:44.000 I go, you have to understand how wild this band was.

00:03:47.000 I go, when Old Dirty Bastard was in Rikers, they went to Rikers and performed in Rikers.

00:03:55.000 You remember that?

00:03:55.000 Yes!

00:03:56.000 I don't fucking remember that.

00:03:56.000 I told everybody, I was like, do you know how crazy that is?

00:04:00.000 You're talking about like the biggest rap band in the fucking world and they're performing in a penitentiary to one of the members who's one of the biggest fucking hip hop stars in the world who's in jail and then you guys go into the crowd.

00:04:17.000 God bless his soul, first and foremost.

00:04:19.000 Oh my God, Old Dirty Bastard was a classic.

00:04:22.000 Yo, Joe is the funniest shit because when we came in and when we seen him, he was eating a cheeseburger, laughing and shit.

00:04:28.000 You know, he reminds you, he never was, you know, dirty.

00:04:32.000 I don't even think, I never seen him eat meat like that or whatever the case may be, but we came in, he was eating a cheeseburger and shit laughing.

00:04:39.000 So we was dying laughing.

00:04:41.000 And they kept, you know, the people up in there, they kept telling us like, yo, y'all can't, y'all can't go into the, to the, to the, to the crowd with everybody.

00:04:49.000 You know, we not going to hold no responsibility if something happened.

00:04:52.000 So, you know, be like, all right, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, hang on in.

00:04:56.000 Once we got on that stage, it was like, fuck the stage, man.

00:04:59.000 We out there touching everybody.

00:05:01.000 It was love, man.

00:05:01.000 Wow.

00:05:02.000 It was a lot of love.

00:05:04.000 Man, it had to be what?

00:05:04.000 What year was that?

00:05:05.000 I say what?

00:05:08.000 90...

00:05:09.000 What?

00:05:10.000 90...

00:05:11.000 98?

00:05:12.000 Wow.

00:05:12.000 97?

00:05:13.000 98?

00:05:14.000 No internet.

00:05:15.000 Yeah, none of that shit.

00:05:16.000 None of that.

00:05:17.000 Is there even a recording of that anywhere?

00:05:20.000 Nah.

00:05:20.000 I don't think so.

00:05:21.000 I don't think so.

00:05:22.000 You know how wild that video would be?

00:05:25.000 I never knew that people seen that.

00:05:27.000 I don't know how the fuck you knew that shit.

00:05:29.000 Oh, I heard about it.

00:05:30.000 Yeah, I heard about it.

00:05:31.000 But they loved that stuff.

00:05:32.000 It was in the news back then that you guys performed in Rikers.

00:05:35.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:05:37.000 The 90s for hip-hop, it was like people need...

00:05:41.000 You have to understand, for young people, you grew up with hip-hop, you're only 20 years old, I get it.

00:05:46.000 But you have to understand from my perspective, in 1980, there was no hip-hop.

00:05:52.000 In 1992, that was all anybody gave a fuck about.

00:05:56.000 That is crazy.

00:05:58.000 For a new art form...

00:06:00.000 To emerge, right?

00:06:01.000 Right.

00:06:02.000 I mean, there was, like, Sugarhill Gang.

00:06:04.000 There was some hip-hop, but it wasn't the thing until the 90s.

00:06:08.000 And 90s hip-hop...

00:06:09.000 It got big.

00:06:10.000 It got big.

00:06:11.000 It got so big.

00:06:13.000 I remember...

00:06:14.000 It's so crazy you said that because I tell people all the time, like, disco, to me, was hip-hop before hip-hop was.

00:06:21.000 You know, disco, R&B, Everything was a mixture.

00:06:27.000 It was a mixture.

00:06:28.000 So really when hip-hop came, like you said, it came like maybe, I'm gonna say, 80s, 85?

00:06:38.000 It had to be 84 because I was in junior high school.

00:06:41.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:06:42.000 We was young boys, right?

00:06:43.000 So I would definitely say you heard something and it was like, oh shit, motherfuckers is rhyming.

00:06:50.000 You know, this shit sound cool, though.

00:06:53.000 It sound cool.

00:06:53.000 You know what I mean?

00:06:54.000 But really, it was a way to bring people together, you know, that was going through different shit in their life, you know what I mean?

00:07:03.000 Yeah, and you know what?

00:07:03.000 It was earlier than that, because in 84, I was in high school, so it had to be 80. Because I was a freshman in high school in 81, so I heard Sugarhill Gang when I lived in Jamaica Plain, which was in 1980. So that was the first time I'd ever heard any kind of hip-hop.

00:07:19.000 Yeah, so like, yeah, like we said, yeah, 80?

00:07:22.000 Yeah, I was 10 years old, so...

00:07:24.000 Me probably really, really gravitating to it.

00:07:27.000 I probably was like 12, like you said.

00:07:30.000 12. What was the first hip-hop that really grabbed you?

00:07:33.000 Do you remember?

00:07:34.000 Do you remember like what was the shit that you were first into when you were a kid?

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00:10:40.000 That's rocketmoney.com slash JRE. Rocketmoney.com slash JRE. The first shit that grabbed me was, like how you said, Sugar Hill Gang, you know?

00:10:53.000 Rap is the light.

00:10:55.000 Yeah.

00:10:55.000 Rap is the light.

00:10:56.000 Hip is the hip.

00:10:57.000 Hip is the hip.

00:10:58.000 That was the shit.

00:11:00.000 Now look, I had cousins.

00:11:01.000 I had cousins.

00:11:02.000 I had wild cousins and shit.

00:11:04.000 They was wild.

00:11:05.000 They was selling drugs.

00:11:07.000 They was smoking weed and sniffing coke and doing whatever they was doing.

00:11:13.000 They used to live two floors above me.

00:11:19.000 And I used to sneak up there and shit, and you know, just be in their business, be in their world, and they would be playing music, they had the record player, you know, you see coke on the table and weed and everything, and my cousins, they was cool, they was like, yo, come in, man, we don't give a fuck, like, just don't tell your mother that you was around and shit, you know what I mean?

00:11:38.000 Nah, nah, I ain't gonna say nothing.

00:11:39.000 I ain't gonna say nothing.

00:11:39.000 And I would just be watching and you know, I would see weed on the album covers and you know what I mean, just motherfuckers running back and forth in the room and you know they in the shit, but they always was playing music and a lot of the music was R&B, you know, disco.

00:11:57.000 You know, and the next thing you know I heard this fucking record, Sugar Hill Gang, and I'm like, The groove was dope.

00:12:03.000 I'm like, holy shit.

00:12:04.000 Like, this is what I want to be.

00:12:06.000 You know what I mean?

00:12:07.000 I'm looking at the whole vibe.

00:12:08.000 I'm like, this is who I am right here, you know?

00:12:11.000 It's so crazy how it emerged.

00:12:13.000 I mean, it emerged.

00:12:15.000 Yeah, nobody expected that, bro.

00:12:17.000 Well, it was a totally new thing.

00:12:19.000 And there was a lot of resistance.

00:12:21.000 I mean, for people that don't know, those little warning labels on your, when you used to have CDs, that all came from Al Gore's wife.

00:12:30.000 Get the fuck out of here.

00:12:31.000 Al Gore's wife, Tipper Gore, she was a Democrat.

00:12:35.000 She wanted to censor rap music.

00:12:37.000 Oh, shit.

00:12:38.000 Because this was the first time anybody heard, like, Ice-T, you know, like, 6 in the morning.

00:12:43.000 Everybody's like, what the fuck is this?

00:12:44.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:45.000 You know, and that kind of explicit lyrics, they wanted to put a stop to it.

00:12:50.000 And that's why they put...

00:12:50.000 And these dumbasses, they didn't even understand, it sold way more albums.

00:12:54.000 Yeah.

00:12:55.000 Because that's what kids are looking for.

00:12:57.000 They don't even swear.

00:12:58.000 Get this shit out of here.

00:13:00.000 Once they got the label on it, it's like, I want it.

00:13:02.000 Exactly.

00:13:03.000 Once the floodgates got open and kids got turned on to like real hardcore hip hop, you couldn't sell the regular shit.

00:13:12.000 Get out of here with that.

00:13:14.000 I mean, there's a few guys who got through with regular shit, but it just didn't last.

00:13:18.000 Nah, it definitely didn't last.

00:13:20.000 But like you said, though, everybody wanted the raw shit.

00:13:23.000 And you gotta remember, at that time, it was a tough time, man.

00:13:27.000 Too much shit was going on.

00:13:29.000 I mean, it was to the point where it's like, yo, in our neighborhood, we had, like, crazy people.

00:13:34.000 Like, if they catch you at night, they'll kill you.

00:13:36.000 Like, they'd be dressed up like a fucking drag or whatever, all this makeup on, and...

00:13:42.000 You know, I remember one time going to the incinerator room.

00:13:45.000 My mom's made me go.

00:13:46.000 She made me go to take out the garbage and shit.

00:13:49.000 I forgot to take it out.

00:13:50.000 And she came home later that day and I was laying down and she fucking smacked me in the head with a broom like, yo, didn't I tell you to take out the fucking garbage?

00:13:58.000 So now I'm going out to the incinerator room, you know, walking.

00:14:02.000 It's on the same floor.

00:14:03.000 And I remember when I cut the corner I seen a motherfucker sticking his head out.

00:14:08.000 And he had his hair all wild.

00:14:10.000 His shit was like green and red and all this.

00:14:12.000 And he had lipstick on all crazy.

00:14:14.000 And his eyes was all fucking bugged out looking.

00:14:17.000 And he looked at me.

00:14:18.000 And I got the garbage pail with me.

00:14:21.000 And it's like, yo, once I seen him, I just dropped the shit and ran.

00:14:24.000 Mom!

00:14:26.000 You know what I mean?

00:14:27.000 Back then, you know, you yell your mother name and shit.

00:14:29.000 You think that that was something cool back then.

00:14:32.000 You know, she's your hero at that time.

00:14:34.000 Came back, the nigga was gone.

00:14:35.000 But I think if he would have caught me in that incinerator door when it was closed, he was going to probably try to run in there and probably try to fucking kill me or something.

00:14:44.000 And that shit was going on back then because the drugs, the drugs was crazy back then.

00:14:49.000 Right, that's the big shift is crack.

00:14:51.000 Yeah, crack.

00:14:52.000 That's also in the 80s.

00:14:53.000 Yeah, but see, before crack, You had that dope, that dope, that dope.

00:14:58.000 So motherfuckers is mixing dope and coke together and getting high and shooting it.

00:15:03.000 Yeah, everything.

00:15:04.000 You know what I mean?

00:15:05.000 It was a serious time back then, man.

00:15:07.000 But, you know, that's how far to me...

00:15:12.000 Music went back, you know, listening to Ladies Night.

00:15:15.000 You know what I mean?

00:15:16.000 I had people in my store that had a candy store right on the same floor, but it wasn't a candy store.

00:15:21.000 They had a bunch of penny candy just to make kids feel cool, but really they were selling coke in the back.

00:15:27.000 Coke and dope, though.

00:15:28.000 So, you know, all this was going on in the community, man.

00:15:31.000 Wow.

00:15:31.000 It was a serious time, scary times back then.

00:15:34.000 Mm-hmm.

00:15:35.000 But if it's not for those scary times, you don't get the kind of band that Wu-Tang was.

00:15:41.000 That has to emerge from an authentic experience.

00:15:44.000 Absolutely.

00:15:44.000 It has to.

00:15:45.000 And that's part of the appeal of it is that everybody kind of knew that.

00:15:50.000 You know, it was part of the appeal.

00:15:52.000 There's never been, like, a genre of music like that that's so connected to, like, the grind and poverty and crime and ghettos.

00:16:02.000 Like, the whole genre of music, to be authentic, you had to come from that.

00:16:06.000 You couldn't be, like, some rich kid from the suburbs that was talking about some shit you never actually experienced.

00:16:13.000 Nobody wants to hear it, which is kind of crazy.

00:16:16.000 Right, that's true.

00:16:17.000 I mean, you know, back then, Hip-hop was really an expression for the ghetto.

00:16:24.000 Being that we was living in fucked up situations and nobody had shit, nobody had no fucking jobs like that.

00:16:32.000 It was like, yo, we needed something to keep us cool, keep us in a vibe mode.

00:16:39.000 Back then, gangs was still relevant.

00:16:44.000 We never looked at ourselves as a gang.

00:16:46.000 We might have looked at ourselves as a tribe.

00:16:48.000 That, yo, when you from a neighborhood and you stick to your neighborhood, you know what I mean?

00:16:53.000 And that's why even back then it was like a lot of times, you know, you would beef with people that wasn't from your neighborhood just because you wasn't from here.

00:17:01.000 It's like, yo, what the fuck you doing over here?

00:17:03.000 You don't live over here.

00:17:04.000 You know, then it creates this animosity thing.

00:17:07.000 And I remember for us, you know, being...

00:17:10.000 Being in an area where it was like you go up the block, up the block, stayed up the block, down the block, stayed down the block.

00:17:17.000 So for me, I was in the middle.

00:17:19.000 So, you know, I leaned more towards up the block, you know, but then we would go down the block just to start trouble, and, you know, then they would come up the block and they would start trouble, and next thing you know before you know it, we all fucking with each other, you know what I mean?

00:17:36.000 So that was our way of getting to know each other, is to test each other's heart, and whatever may happen was happening back then, though.

00:17:45.000 But the music, believe it or not, the music was keeping a peace.

00:17:50.000 Now, the music was keeping the peace because they would do block parties, right?

00:17:54.000 They would do block parties and everybody knew all these different DJs was coming from different places and going to play some music and shit.

00:18:06.000 So we knew every time they did that, we knew something was going to happen at the end of the night.

00:18:11.000 It was just mandatory.

00:18:12.000 It was just because people from all over, different neighborhoods would come out, and everything would be nice.

00:18:20.000 And next thing you know, you see a motherfucker riding down the street all crazy, you know, trying to hit motherfuckers and swinging a golf club out the fucking...

00:18:29.000 Out the window and shit.

00:18:32.000 Somebody's mother might have got knocked out.

00:18:34.000 You know what I mean?

00:18:37.000 But the music is still playing.

00:18:40.000 So, yeah, that's the type of shit that, to me, that made it fun but made it spooky.

00:18:46.000 But it still was fun because it was something to remember.

00:18:49.000 Well, it's fun because you survived.

00:18:51.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:18:53.000 The survival, yeah.

00:18:54.000 But we were young, so we didn't care about Whether we live or die at that time, we didn't give a fuck.

00:19:02.000 It was like, whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen.

00:19:04.000 That's wild.

00:19:05.000 But the music, the music is what kept things in order for us, you know, because we always felt like that was a vessel to being calm.

00:19:15.000 You know, when you come from somewhere that's fucked up, Joe, And there's nothing there.

00:19:20.000 You can't get a job because of your community.

00:19:22.000 Your zip code don't allow you to be like, yo, he's hired.

00:19:26.000 No, it's just too infested over there.

00:19:29.000 So you kind of become relaxed with that mentality of saying, well, fuck it.

00:19:34.000 I'm going to live off the land.

00:19:36.000 I'm going to sell weed.

00:19:38.000 I'm going to do whatever I think that is going to make me survive.

00:19:44.000 So everything is just survival.

00:19:46.000 You know, when music always kept us calm and you always want to listen to what's next being played.

00:19:54.000 Like, I grew up on R&B music, like disco and, you know, all that fun shit, roller skating.

00:20:03.000 You know, I knew motherfuckers in the neighborhood that was roller-skating.

00:20:07.000 You know, we would get off of Staten Island sometimes and go to these different parks and jams in the city.

00:20:15.000 That was fun too, though.

00:20:16.000 That was fun times for us.

00:20:20.000 So was it RZA that was initially all nine guys?

00:20:25.000 Like, how did it get formed?

00:20:28.000 Well, number one, it was RZA, his cousin JZA, and his other cousin, Old Dirty Bastard, that they were super close.

00:20:40.000 Now, Old Dirty Bastard and JZA, they were from Brooklyn.

00:20:44.000 RZA is from Staten Island.

00:20:49.000 We all Brooklyn babies too, the majority of us in the Klan.

00:20:52.000 We all resided in Staten Island, but the majority of us grew up in Brooklyn.

00:20:57.000 But anyway, it was those three that were close as shit.

00:21:02.000 So RZA... Back then, RZA, he had knowledge of self, which was, you know, being involved with the Nation of Islam and also JZA and Old Dirty.

00:21:13.000 They were a part of the nation at that time.

00:21:17.000 So they would go to a lot of rallies.

00:21:19.000 This is a place where everybody go when they build.

00:21:22.000 They talking about mathematics and all of this.

00:21:24.000 But it was JZA and Old Dirty who instilled the hip hop into RZA. So RZA was a DJ back then.

00:21:32.000 But he knew how to rhyme, too.

00:21:34.000 And he knew how to rhyme because of his cousins.

00:21:36.000 So they kind of had this gang called, not a gang, but they had this thing called the All In Together Now Crew, which was them three, and they would run around and they would battle different guys from different cities and move around.

00:21:49.000 So, you know, some of us kind of knew what they were about.

00:21:53.000 You know, a lot of us, you know, found out later who they were, but when Jizza and Old Dirty came to Staten Island, they came and they hang out with their cousin.

00:22:01.000 So, you know, we started to see them a little bit more and know that, you know, yo, I heard about your rhymes and, you know, and Dirty, he was just a crazy motherfucker back then.

00:22:11.000 He was crazy, but, yeah, they had their own little thing going on.

00:22:16.000 And then, you know, next thing you know, JZA caught a record deal.

00:22:19.000 He caught a record deal, which was rare back then.

00:22:23.000 Like, if you fucking caught a record deal, that mean that you had to have relationships, you had to know where to go, you had to have some type of connects.

00:22:32.000 So that's what gravitated RZA into wanting to do it, because he's seen that his cousin...

00:22:38.000 I was able to, you know, crack the code on making a record.

00:22:42.000 So when that happened, it was almost like it magnetized RZA to be like, yo, I got to make a record now too.

00:22:50.000 You know, and the next thing you know, they had their movement going on.

00:22:54.000 So us from the outside looking, it was like, oh shit, yo, we know them.

00:22:58.000 We know they super passionate about everything.

00:23:01.000 You know, being in the game and doing whatever they're going to do, but we wasn't thinking that far.

00:23:07.000 We just loved the music in general.

00:23:10.000 Wow.

00:23:11.000 So RZA is essentially the mastermind to put all the pieces together and to bring all you killers under one roof.

00:23:20.000 Absolutely.

00:23:21.000 Amazing how he saw that.

00:23:23.000 Because again, that's not something that existed.

00:23:26.000 Yeah.

00:23:26.000 It's like Eric B and Rakim, you know, there was, you know, there was a few, EPMD, there was a few people.

00:23:32.000 You know your shit, dude.

00:23:33.000 You know your shit.

00:23:34.000 Gangstar.

00:23:34.000 There was a few people that were together, but it wasn't like you guys.

00:23:37.000 Nah, nah, because that was...

00:23:39.000 It was kind of scary.

00:23:40.000 It was like, god damn, when you guys had a show, I mean, I heard stories that it was just like you guys would show up like 300 people.

00:23:47.000 Yeah, that was some neighborhood shit, but yeah, like you said, that was so rare to see a group that come out like that.

00:23:54.000 And it was really a mistake.

00:23:56.000 It wasn't really designed to be that way, but when RZA had a record situation and they tried to make him be something that he wasn't...

00:24:05.000 Always the case.

00:24:08.000 You know what I mean?

00:24:08.000 He was like, yo, fuck that.

00:24:10.000 I don't even care about this shit at this level no more.

00:24:12.000 I want to create this now.

00:24:14.000 And I'm bringing in all my guys and, you know, he just put that number together.

00:24:19.000 So, believe it or not, I was one of the guys that he called first because we used to hang out.

00:24:25.000 Like, I tell people all the time, like, yo, I might have been RZA's first, you know, big fan.

00:24:32.000 So I kind of seen something in them already.

00:24:34.000 I seen something.

00:24:35.000 I'm like, yo, this guy really, you know, him and his cousins.

00:24:38.000 And I'm like, yo, these motherfuckers really got talent.

00:24:41.000 You know, not only the ability to rhyme, but they was clever.

00:24:44.000 Like, I'm talking about clever rhymes.

00:24:46.000 Right, right, right.

00:24:47.000 You know, and they was mixing it with the knowledge and, you know, smart rhymes.

00:24:51.000 Not these fucking regular Humpty Dumpty lines.

00:24:55.000 Like, I'm talking about serious rhymes.

00:24:57.000 I'm like, damn, you know what I mean?

00:24:59.000 Like, yo, so, you know...

00:25:02.000 This is something that I felt like I would want to go chill with them just to be in the mix and be a fly on the wall.

00:25:08.000 Wasn't even thinking about being no fucking rapper.

00:25:10.000 I didn't give a fuck.

00:25:11.000 I just love the music, but I'm watching these motherfuckers, y'all.

00:25:14.000 I'm like, something about these motherfuckers that I love.

00:25:19.000 And next thing you know, when RZA... Went out there and he came back to the community.

00:25:27.000 He was like, yo, I caught a record deal.

00:25:29.000 So, you know, I was there.

00:25:30.000 I'm like, let me see this shit, looking at this shit.

00:25:33.000 Let me see what the fuck is...

00:25:34.000 Oh, yeah, I'm looking down here like you said, the what's the name?

00:25:38.000 Fine print.

00:25:38.000 Yeah, the fine print and shit.

00:25:40.000 I'm like, yo, this motherfucker made a record.

00:25:41.000 Holy shit, yo.

00:25:43.000 Bow, Staten Island, that's what's up.

00:25:45.000 We up.

00:25:46.000 You know, but his situation ain't work out the way he wanted it to.

00:25:49.000 And that's when he came back and he started to be like, yo, chef, this is what I'm trying to do.

00:25:55.000 Well, the dangerous thing for young artists in every industry is when you have potential and you're young, you sign a fucking contract and you don't know what's going on.

00:26:04.000 And then you get locked into these people.

00:26:06.000 And then a lot of times you're getting fucked.

00:26:08.000 And you don't even know you're getting fucked.

00:26:10.000 It's a mandatory.

00:26:11.000 Mandatory.

00:26:11.000 Mandatory, yeah.

00:26:12.000 You're getting fucked, which is how they make their money.

00:26:14.000 They make money by fucking young artists who don't know any better, and by the time someone gets to a prince's level, he's like, oh, you owe me?

00:26:21.000 I'm a fucking squiggly line.

00:26:23.000 Suck my dick.

00:26:24.000 He performs as a symbol.

00:26:26.000 I mean, that's why he performed as a symbol, because they owned him.

00:26:30.000 It's crazy.

00:26:31.000 You take the most talented people in the world, and they get owned by people who provide no value.

00:26:36.000 Especially today.

00:26:38.000 Today it's even crazier, right?

00:26:39.000 Because there is no record sales anymore.

00:26:42.000 It's all gone.

00:26:44.000 For a young artist, it's so important that they stay independent as long as they can.

00:26:49.000 Like you're hanging off a bridge.

00:26:51.000 Hang on!

00:26:52.000 Hang on and keep grinding.

00:26:54.000 Don't sell it.

00:26:55.000 Don't sign.

00:26:56.000 If you sign, you're going to be fighting that shit 10 years from now.

00:26:59.000 You're going to be in court 10 years from now.

00:27:01.000 Yeah, you're right.

00:27:02.000 Somebody's gonna be getting not just 50% but like some fucking insane like Bill Burr was explaining this about his first comedy CD that he got a 60-40 deal he's like oh great 60-40 but it's not really 60-40 because he has to pay for all the distribution all the all the printing of the CDs everything came out of his money let me ask you a question Put yourself in an artist situation, right?

00:27:30.000 You have talent, right?

00:27:31.000 You have talent.

00:27:32.000 Here it is.

00:27:33.000 I got everything you want.

00:27:34.000 Yeah.

00:27:37.000 You're going to have to make some sacrifices.

00:27:39.000 For sure.

00:27:40.000 Because you know that, yeah, you may feel like, yo, I got talent, but I don't have the resources.

00:27:45.000 Right.

00:27:46.000 So those resources come and tell you, yo, look, I'll give you a shot.

00:27:52.000 I'm going to give you a shot, but...

00:27:55.000 Either you take the shot or you stay in the hood.

00:27:58.000 What are you going to do?

00:27:59.000 You're going to take the shot.

00:28:00.000 You're going to take the shot.

00:28:01.000 And I agree with everybody who takes that shot.

00:28:03.000 I'm just letting them know.

00:28:05.000 Right.

00:28:05.000 I'm just letting them know.

00:28:06.000 You're getting fucked.

00:28:07.000 You're getting fucked.

00:28:07.000 But see, it's the sacrifice that I'm trying to explain to you that every artist takes.

00:28:13.000 They take that sacrifice because at the end of the day, you have to start from somewhere.

00:28:19.000 Right.

00:28:20.000 So even when labels are being them...

00:28:24.000 In my mind, I'm saying, yo, I get a chance to have a job, Joe.

00:28:28.000 Niggas ain't never had no fucking job in they life.

00:28:31.000 And now we get a chance to do something that you could maybe think that you could change the world with and love.

00:28:37.000 It's like you're going to go for it.

00:28:39.000 So for us back then, being kids, we didn't give a fuck.

00:28:42.000 We didn't care about signing.

00:28:44.000 Yo, I signed because what the fuck I got to lose?

00:28:47.000 I done been through everything.

00:28:48.000 I done been over here.

00:28:49.000 I done been kicked out of everywhere.

00:28:52.000 Fuck it.

00:28:53.000 I just want to be heard.

00:28:54.000 So a lot of time that be the protocol is just to be heard.

00:28:59.000 To be heard, to be able to say, yo, something happened.

00:29:03.000 I don't give a fuck.

00:29:05.000 A lot of artists got robbed.

00:29:07.000 A lot.

00:29:08.000 A lot of artists, and especially our OGs that did it before us.

00:29:13.000 Like, you know what I mean?

00:29:14.000 Sugar Hill Gangs, all these different guys.

00:29:16.000 They all have been manipulated to do what they had to do, but it almost gave them power too, because they became famous, they became big, they became legendary.

00:29:28.000 There's an argument for that, but I think it should be more fair.

00:29:31.000 Oh, listen, I'm with you.

00:29:33.000 Of course you are.

00:29:33.000 I'm with you on that.

00:29:34.000 Of course you are.

00:29:35.000 But we just talking about the sacrifice.

00:29:36.000 What you gotta do.

00:29:37.000 You have to do it.

00:29:38.000 Sacrifice is everything.

00:29:39.000 If you're a young kid and that's step one and now you're on the runway, okay, you gotta take it.

00:29:43.000 You gotta take it.

00:29:44.000 But it just should be more fair.

00:29:46.000 Oh, I agree, I agree.

00:29:48.000 And I'm sure later on, things worked out, and you know, now that you proved yourself...

00:29:54.000 Once they become undeniable.

00:29:56.000 It's like I tell a motherfucker this.

00:29:57.000 I'm like, yo, imagine you were a hustler, right?

00:30:00.000 And you run into the Kinect, and the Kinect say, yo, you talking like you know how to move shit.

00:30:06.000 I'm going to give you 50 pounds of marijuana back then.

00:30:09.000 You know what I mean?

00:30:10.000 Now, you may feel like at the end of the day you can handle it, but a motherfucker tell you, Joe, I'm giving you these fucking 50 pounds.

00:30:17.000 I need my money back today at this time.

00:30:21.000 You can either take the 50 because you're so fucking confident or take one and say, yo, I'd rather take my time.

00:30:28.000 You know what I mean?

00:30:28.000 I don't want to be in debt with you.

00:30:30.000 What are you going to do?

00:30:31.000 You got to take the 50. Oh, you?

00:30:34.000 Oh, yeah.

00:30:34.000 You got to take the 50. He wants to fucking get his head fucking chopped up.

00:30:37.000 You got to take the 50. I don't know.

00:30:39.000 You got to know people and you got to bring everybody in and you got to share the money.

00:30:44.000 See, you got to know people.

00:30:45.000 You got to share the money.

00:30:45.000 You gotta know people.

00:30:46.000 If you ain't competent in knowing what the fuck you need to know, I advise you don't take them.

00:30:51.000 You shouldn't be having that conversation if you don't know anybody.

00:30:54.000 But if you know some people and you're generous, that's the thing.

00:30:58.000 You gotta make it worth these people's while.

00:31:00.000 You gotta say, listen, we're all gonna get something out of this.

00:31:03.000 And see, now look, that philosophy that you said is what we took on.

00:31:08.000 We took that on.

00:31:09.000 We said, you know what?

00:31:10.000 At the end of the day, we'll take this little bit of money, but we're going to be willing to sell ourselves to get to this level because we know what we believe in.

00:31:21.000 See, it all starts from what you believe.

00:31:23.000 If you don't have the belief in yourself to make it happen, You fucked.

00:31:28.000 It's a rising tides, lifts all boats thing, too.

00:31:31.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:31:32.000 And with Wu-Tang Clan, that was for sure a big thing.

00:31:34.000 Because anybody that was associated with Wu-Tang Clan was automatically respected.

00:31:39.000 Automatically people wanted to listen.

00:31:41.000 Automatically.

00:31:42.000 Yeah.

00:31:42.000 Automatically.

00:31:43.000 So that just lifts everybody.

00:31:46.000 But it's hard for people to see that.

00:31:48.000 Everybody thinks about themselves, especially when you're struggling.

00:31:51.000 When you're struggling, then you're scared.

00:31:53.000 And scared money doesn't make money.

00:31:56.000 That's what it is.

00:31:56.000 Everybody gets paranoid.

00:31:58.000 And they think, no, that's when you've got to bond together.

00:32:00.000 That's when you have to find real people and stick together.

00:32:04.000 You said the key word.

00:32:06.000 You've got to sell that 50. Talk to Carlos.

00:32:12.000 Go down to the bodega.

00:32:14.000 Let's make a deal, man.

00:32:15.000 We gotta make some deals.

00:32:16.000 We got 10 hours.

00:32:17.000 I guess that's what Rizzo did.

00:32:19.000 He danced with the devil for the right reason.

00:32:22.000 We took some scars.

00:32:24.000 We got hit.

00:32:26.000 It was a different world back then, too, in terms of the industry.

00:32:29.000 Because today, all you need is a social media account, Spotify, SoundCloud.

00:32:33.000 You can blow up.

00:32:34.000 You can blow up today.

00:32:36.000 Back then, you needed the radio.

00:32:38.000 You could sell mixtapes.

00:32:41.000 But it's hard.

00:32:43.000 You had to be some undeniable talent.

00:32:47.000 We always play the video of Biggie when he was 17 on the street.

00:32:51.000 Remember that video?

00:32:52.000 Yeah, when he was in his neighborhood.

00:32:54.000 That's undeniable talent.

00:32:57.000 That's the kind of talent.

00:32:59.000 If he stays alive, you can't stop that train.

00:33:02.000 Absolutely.

00:33:02.000 That train's running everything over.

00:33:04.000 You know what I mean?

00:33:05.000 There was guys like that back then.

00:33:07.000 But man, to get out there and get your name out there, you had to dance.

00:33:12.000 You had to dance with that devil.

00:33:14.000 You had to work.

00:33:15.000 Mm-hmm.

00:33:16.000 And that business was so dirty back then.

00:33:19.000 It still is, but real dirty back then in the record-selling days.

00:33:22.000 Yeah, of course.

00:33:23.000 But that's what made us learn is that we had to go through those growing pains.

00:33:31.000 We had to get jerked to learn how to say, yo, that was a lesson.

00:33:35.000 So everything is a lesson at the end of the day.

00:33:38.000 It's like if you're willing to sacrifice yourself and your time to learn something, I would always say go for it.

00:33:46.000 Yes.

00:33:47.000 You know, go for it.

00:33:48.000 Definitely.

00:33:49.000 Go for it.

00:33:49.000 It's so much better than not going for it.

00:33:51.000 Yeah, because then you're going to be sitting in the same situation and you're going to realize at the end of the day, damn, I should have took that opportunity.

00:34:00.000 Some people are scared of opportunities when they come.

00:34:03.000 And it's like if a person offers you an opportunity, nine times out of ten it may not work for you the way you want it to work, but it may be an opportunity to help you.

00:34:13.000 You know, it's all about you trying to help yourself and get out there.

00:34:18.000 It's like watching Scarface and a nigga told him, he said, yo, give you five grand.

00:34:24.000 And if you fuck this up, Chico...

00:34:27.000 Scarface looked at him and said, man, the fuck is you talking about?

00:34:33.000 We built for this shit, man.

00:34:34.000 You know, when he lost his man in the mix, but...

00:34:39.000 He was able to prove to himself that I could do it.

00:34:44.000 That's how I look at rap.

00:34:46.000 It's like, yo, I don't give a fuck.

00:34:47.000 Yeah, we'll take this little bit of money, but we're going to prove to y'all later on that we know what the fuck we doing.

00:34:55.000 And for young people listening to this, every chance you take where you fail, that's a lesson learned.

00:35:01.000 That's a lesson, baby.

00:35:01.000 And you just keep taking chances.

00:35:03.000 That's right.

00:35:03.000 Keep going.

00:35:04.000 Pick yourself back up.

00:35:06.000 Figure out where you fucked up and learn from that and now you're better.

00:35:09.000 That's right.

00:35:10.000 Now you have more experience coming into this next thing.

00:35:13.000 Just keep going.

00:35:13.000 Just keep going, man.

00:35:15.000 Especially as artists.

00:35:16.000 It's just like so many artists, they don't hit until they do.

00:35:20.000 That's right.

00:35:20.000 And then when they do, it's like, oh, and then people want to go back in their past stuff.

00:35:24.000 Like, oh, this guy had fucking three albums before this.

00:35:26.000 Yeah.

00:35:27.000 Think about it.

00:35:27.000 Think about all our favorite artists out there.

00:35:29.000 You know, Eminem, you know?

00:35:32.000 Eminem been trying to fucking get on, you know?

00:35:34.000 Mm-hmm.

00:35:35.000 You know...

00:35:39.000 Rakim, Slick Reg, all these guys, they went through a lot to get on, you know what I mean?

00:35:45.000 Biz Markie, you know?

00:35:46.000 Nobody wanted to fuck with Biz at first, but, you know, he finally figured the code out and was like, yo, this is what I'm gonna do.

00:35:54.000 You know, he start rocking shows in different communities, and next thing you know, people start hearing about him.

00:36:01.000 You're like, oh shit, yo.

00:36:03.000 This guy is dope.

00:36:04.000 But it's that sacrifice, man.

00:36:06.000 I tell people all the time.

00:36:07.000 Gotta sacrifice.

00:36:08.000 Yeah, it's time put in.

00:36:09.000 Time put in, energy, effort, determination.

00:36:13.000 And you gotta have some talent.

00:36:15.000 Yeah, you gotta have some talent.

00:36:16.000 Talent is just, God just gives you something or doesn't.

00:36:19.000 You know, some people just got it, you know, some people it's also like artistic families like Nas, you know, he grew up in this like intellectual artistic family and that's why his rhymes are so good.

00:36:32.000 Yeah, his pops, man, his pops is a musician.

00:36:35.000 Yeah, like Rewind.

00:36:37.000 Yeah, that's like one of the greatest songs of any genre anybody's ever written.

00:36:41.000 It's a genius song.

00:36:42.000 So crazy.

00:36:43.000 I was listening to that shit yesterday.

00:36:44.000 Genius song.

00:36:45.000 The bullet goes back in the gun.

00:36:46.000 Yeah.

00:36:47.000 Genius song.

00:36:49.000 The whole song backwards.

00:36:51.000 You fuck with lyrics.

00:36:51.000 Oh, I love Nas, especially for lyrics.

00:36:55.000 His lyrics are incredible.

00:36:57.000 They were so good.

00:36:58.000 They were so good.

00:36:59.000 And unusual, like that.

00:37:02.000 Deciding, I'm going to be the first guy to make a rap backwards.

00:37:05.000 And make it work perfectly.

00:37:08.000 You know?

00:37:09.000 I mean, it's just...

00:37:10.000 Hey, did you ever listen to any of the shit where the Brand New Heavies got together with a bunch of rappers?

00:37:18.000 The Brand New Heavies?

00:37:19.000 I know the name, but I'm trying to...

00:37:20.000 The Brand New Heavies are like a jazz band.

00:37:22.000 They did a collaboration with Gangstar, Cool G Rap, a bunch of guys.

00:37:27.000 Some of my favorite shit of all time.

00:37:29.000 Yeah, they was more musical, though.

00:37:31.000 Like I said, they was more musical.

00:37:32.000 Have you ever heard of Cool G Rap's Death Threat?

00:37:36.000 Oh my god.

00:37:37.000 Jamie, play that.

00:37:39.000 Play that.

00:37:40.000 Find that.

00:37:40.000 We've got to put on the headphones for this.

00:37:42.000 This is in my, along with a bunch of Wu-Tang, this is in my Spotify playlist.

00:37:48.000 This is Cool G Rap in like, I want to say 92?

00:37:52.000 Yeah, 92. Listen to this.

00:37:55.000 Some think that I'm a flake, but I'm no fake nigga, cause I think I'm a bitch.

00:37:58.000 Bigger man with your burners ass at the stake.

00:38:00.000 I've never heard this shit before.

00:38:09.000 How good is this?

00:38:10.000 Ooh.

00:38:18.000 Ooh.

00:38:20.000 One of my favorites right there.

00:38:24.000 Turn to chicks with small dicks.

00:38:28.000 Nice.

00:38:36.000 So good.

00:38:37.000 Nice.

00:38:37.000 So good.

00:38:38.000 So this was on the Brand New Heavies album.

00:38:39.000 Yes.

00:38:40.000 The Brand New Heavies did one with Gangstar.

00:38:42.000 They did a bunch of different artists.

00:38:44.000 Nice.

00:38:45.000 What year was this?

00:38:46.000 92. Phenomenal.

00:38:47.000 See, this is the beginning.

00:38:48.000 Yeah.

00:38:49.000 I was on a road trip.

00:38:50.000 I was doing a gig in Connecticut with a buddy of mine who's a comedian.

00:38:53.000 Right.

00:38:54.000 And he turned me on to this.

00:38:56.000 Like, you got to listen to this shit.

00:38:57.000 And I was like, oh my God.

00:38:59.000 And then I had a CD and I lost it.

00:39:02.000 And I couldn't find it forever.

00:39:04.000 And then someone brought it up like a few years back, like six or seven years back.

00:39:08.000 And I was like, God, you got to be able to find it.

00:39:10.000 And that's the beautiful thing about today with like YouTube and, you know, some of these platforms, people upload shit that you totally forgot about.

00:39:18.000 Like Tim Dog.

00:39:20.000 People forgot about, like Fuck Compton.

00:39:22.000 Remember that?

00:39:23.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:39:23.000 He was a wildcat, but he was real.

00:39:25.000 It was good, though.

00:39:26.000 He was good.

00:39:27.000 Fuck Compton, yeah.

00:39:28.000 He was wilding back then, yeah.

00:39:30.000 Great shit, man.

00:39:30.000 Yeah, he was wilding back then.

00:39:32.000 But Coogee Rap, that to me was like, that defined like road gigs for me in the 1990s when we would drive.

00:39:39.000 That was when Cockblocking came out.

00:39:42.000 Remember that?

00:39:43.000 What?

00:39:43.000 Remember that?

00:39:44.000 Oh my god, that song is amazing.

00:39:46.000 Yeah, man.

00:39:47.000 Damn, so you really pay attention to this fucking hip-hop shit like that, man.

00:39:51.000 Yeah, hip-hop was a big part of my childhood or my young adulthood.

00:39:56.000 You know, when I was driving around a lot doing comedy gigs, like a lot of Ghetto Boys.

00:40:00.000 I was a huge Ghetto Boys fan.

00:40:02.000 Yeah, me too.

00:40:04.000 The other day in the green room, I was playing Fuck A War for these young kids.

00:40:08.000 I was like, listen, this is a song from the 1980s about the Iraq War.

00:40:13.000 This is about George Bush in the late 1980s.

00:40:19.000 And it applies today.

00:40:21.000 You remember Fuckin' War?

00:40:22.000 Nah, you fuckin'...

00:40:23.000 Come on, headphones are comin' back on.

00:40:25.000 Let's go.

00:40:25.000 You ain't fuckin' schoolin' me on shit.

00:40:27.000 Like, what the fuck?

00:40:27.000 I talked to Willie D. Willie D told me he wrote this song in 40 minutes.

00:40:31.000 Wow.

00:40:31.000 Yeah, he was just angry.

00:40:32.000 Wrote this song in 40 minutes.

00:40:34.000 Fuckin' War.

00:40:34.000 And this is ghetto boys in their prime.

00:40:36.000 Mmm.

00:40:36.000 Hello, can I speak with Bushwick?

00:40:38.000 You know that album.

00:40:39.000 Bushwick Bill.

00:40:40.000 Hello.

00:40:41.000 That was my guy right there, man.

00:40:43.000 Motherfuckin' Bill.

00:40:43.000 This is Bushwick motherfuckin' Bill.

00:40:45.000 Yes sir, I'm calling you for me that you've been drafted into the United States military.

00:40:51.000 91. 91. Look at that big phone he's got.

00:41:03.000 Yeah, yeah, I had one of those before too.

00:41:06.000 Yeah.

00:41:11.000 Fuck a war.

00:41:12.000 Fuck a war.

00:41:13.000 Yeah.

00:41:15.000 Fuck a war.

00:41:16.000 That's how I feel.

00:41:17.000 Sending a nigga to the dead to get killed.

00:41:19.000 Cause two suckers can't agree on something.

00:41:21.000 Thousand motherfuckers died for nothing.

00:41:24.000 You can't pay me to join an army camp or any other motherfucking military branch.

00:41:28.000 Of the Saudi goddamn states of that bitch America.

00:41:31.000 Be a soldier at four.

00:41:32.000 They putting niggas on the front line.

00:41:34.000 But when it comes to getting their head, they put us away behind.

00:41:37.000 I ain't getting my legs shot off while I put your lights on TV playing golf.

00:41:42.000 When you're gonna do that draft shit, I'ma shoot you.

00:41:45.000 Yeah.

00:41:45.000 Talking crazy.

00:41:47.000 Woo.

00:41:52.000 Woo.

00:41:54.000 Oh shit.

00:41:58.000 Oh shit.

00:42:04.000 Yeah.

00:42:05.000 Yeah.

00:42:29.000 He was in the N.W.A. chamber.

00:42:31.000 He was in the N.W.A. chamber right there.

00:42:33.000 That shit was good.

00:42:34.000 And that applies today.

00:42:36.000 We were all talking about what's going on right now with Gaza and Palestine.

00:42:42.000 I know.

00:42:42.000 Iran.

00:42:43.000 I was like, listen to this.

00:42:45.000 And see, this is why we love hip-hop so much is because it was educational, too.

00:42:51.000 It was giving us jewels.

00:42:53.000 It was talking about things that...

00:42:56.000 We're going on in the world, and that became the television for us.

00:43:00.000 The music, the music, the music.

00:43:02.000 It became the news, too.

00:43:04.000 Like, you need to know what was actually going on.

00:43:06.000 Like, fuck a war tells you what's really going on.

00:43:09.000 What's going on, yeah.

00:43:10.000 So when I think about those Compton boys, those N.W.A. cats and all of that, that was expressing themselves, it was like, that's what we all were feeling.

00:43:20.000 Facing and living amongst.

00:43:22.000 And, you know, like I said, I never heard that song before.

00:43:24.000 So I could tell that was made around the time when N.W.A. was doing a thing.

00:43:30.000 And, you know, you're hearing about all these riots and shit going on and things happening.

00:43:36.000 You know, us living all the way on the other side of the world.

00:43:39.000 It's like, yo, we not.

00:43:40.000 Yo, what the fuck was that?

00:43:41.000 Right.

00:43:41.000 But you heard it in a song and you knew it was real.

00:43:45.000 You respected it.

00:43:46.000 And to me, those perspectives in music were important for us because we were learning as we were getting older about society.

00:43:56.000 You don't think about society when you pour into And living in fucked up positions.

00:44:02.000 You just think about survival.

00:44:04.000 You see what I'm saying?

00:44:05.000 Survival is the only thing on your mind.

00:44:07.000 And you're dealing with things that's in front of you that, at the end of the day, you're like, damn, the fuck was that that just happened?

00:44:15.000 Or what was this shit?

00:44:16.000 But then when you heard it in rap and motherfuckers like D's was talking about it and all that, it's like now you're like, oh!

00:44:23.000 Okay, I see what the fuck is going on.

00:44:25.000 It's not just here.

00:44:26.000 It's all over.

00:44:28.000 It's in every ghetto or whatever the case may be.

00:44:31.000 That's what was happening.

00:44:33.000 So I never heard that before, though.

00:44:34.000 You just put me on some real shit.

00:44:36.000 And that's one of my favorite groups right there.

00:44:38.000 I love Ghetto Boys.

00:44:39.000 Ghetto Boys is real shit right there.

00:44:41.000 The 1990s Ghetto Boy era.

00:44:44.000 Crazy.

00:44:46.000 I remember the day I found out about N.W.A. I was teaching Taekwondo in Revere, Massachusetts.

00:44:54.000 And I was at the gym riding on a stair climber.

00:44:58.000 And I had just picked up this cassette.

00:45:00.000 And I was like, N.W.A., I keep hearing about this.

00:45:03.000 And Fuck the Police was the first song I listened to.

00:45:05.000 And I remember when I was on the stair climb going, this is wild.

00:45:08.000 See?

00:45:08.000 You see what I'm saying?

00:45:09.000 You see what I'm saying?

00:45:10.000 This is wild.

00:45:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:45:11.000 You're hearing people talk about the police, like they're getting harassed by the police in a way you never heard before.

00:45:17.000 I heard them say it, yeah.

00:45:17.000 Exactly.

00:45:18.000 Fuck the Police coming straight from the underground.

00:45:20.000 It was like, wow!

00:45:22.000 Coming straight from the fucking underground.

00:45:23.000 It was a totally different kind of music.

00:45:25.000 It was...

00:45:26.000 It was like they were rapping and no one was listening.

00:45:30.000 It was like they were rapping for themselves, right?

00:45:32.000 They didn't give a fuck who was listening.

00:45:35.000 They were rapping like they were doing it for their friends, but they were doing it to the whole world.

00:45:39.000 And the whole world was like, whoa!

00:45:41.000 100 miles and running, the whole world was like, whoa!

00:45:45.000 This is crazy!

00:45:46.000 So look, you had them, you had Public Enemy.

00:45:49.000 All of them type of guys were giving us information that...

00:45:55.000 It was relatable in our community that they became a voice.

00:45:58.000 KRS-One?

00:45:59.000 KRS-One, the teacher, you know.

00:46:01.000 Boop, boop, that's a sound of the police.

00:46:03.000 All that shit right there to me was knowledgeable, knowledgeable rap, hip-hop.

00:46:11.000 I ain't gonna call it fucking rap, hip-hop.

00:46:15.000 Informational.

00:46:15.000 Especially KRS-One and Public Enemy.

00:46:19.000 They were saying something.

00:46:22.000 But it wasn't contrived.

00:46:25.000 It wasn't like, you know, you see people say shit today like, ah, you're just doing that for claps.

00:46:30.000 They were saying shit to let people know about some information that you're not aware of and this is why you're getting fucked.

00:46:38.000 Period.

00:46:38.000 This is why we're all getting fucked.

00:46:40.000 Absolutely.

00:46:41.000 Come on.

00:46:42.000 Even when fuckin' Spike Lee made Do Do The Right Thing.

00:46:45.000 Yes!

00:46:46.000 One of my favorite movies right there.

00:46:47.000 That's a classic right there.

00:46:49.000 Classic.

00:46:50.000 Classic shit.

00:46:51.000 Wow.

00:46:51.000 Classic.

00:46:52.000 But like you said, we was getting information and, you know, you gotta remember, you know, at the end of the day, You know, a lot of people that coming out of the hood and just being like, I know you, you come from the hood.

00:47:04.000 Well, I was born in Newark.

00:47:06.000 Yeah, he was born in Newark.

00:47:07.000 Shout out to Newark.

00:47:08.000 So you seen it.

00:47:09.000 I wouldn't exactly say I come from the hood because I went to high school in the suburbs.

00:47:14.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:47:15.000 I lived in Newark.

00:47:16.000 I was telling you, I lived in Newark when I was 23 for about six or seven months.

00:47:21.000 And I told you my next door neighbor, he was selling dope and the police raided his house while I was there.

00:47:26.000 They battering rammed his door and everything.

00:47:28.000 He had a nice Audi.

00:47:29.000 I looked at him like, how does this dude have a nice car?

00:47:32.000 Selling dope.

00:47:33.000 He was selling dope.

00:47:35.000 And they got him.

00:47:36.000 But he was around it though, so he was able to, you know...

00:47:39.000 Well, that was also the time that I was the most into hip-hop, too.

00:47:42.000 I mean, that was 1991, I guess.

00:47:45.000 That was a wild era, because that's when hip-hop was just exploding.

00:47:50.000 Yeah, you're right.

00:47:51.000 Exploding.

00:47:52.000 Yeah, I would say definitely 91. You had Naughty By Nature.

00:47:55.000 Oh, yeah.

00:47:56.000 They had emerged on the scene, like you said.

00:47:59.000 Rakim and Big Daddy Cane.

00:48:01.000 Oh, yeah.

00:48:01.000 Easy E's and Ice Cubes.

00:48:04.000 To this day, I go to work because it's one of my favorite workout songs.

00:48:08.000 Big Daddy Kane, I'll go to work.

00:48:11.000 Oh my god, I go to work.

00:48:18.000 He was so smooth and so fast too.

00:48:21.000 Big Daddy Kane had a very particular style.

00:48:25.000 It was energetic.

00:48:26.000 You heard his style, like your blood started pumping.

00:48:30.000 You started getting moving.

00:48:32.000 And see, those are the type of guys that paved the way for us to be so, you know, outspoken on the mic.

00:48:40.000 You know, when I sit here, when I think about the Klan, you know, the Wu-Wang, how we, you know, formed Voltron, each one of us had a superpower that related back to those guys.

00:48:53.000 You know, all these guys that we talking about today, they was the light bulb in the house.

00:49:03.000 You screw that shit on.

00:49:05.000 This is what I see right now.

00:49:07.000 I see Slick Wreck.

00:49:08.000 I see Rakim.

00:49:09.000 I see Cube.

00:49:10.000 I see fucking, you know, all these guys that paid the way for us.

00:49:16.000 So the Klan at that time, we were so, you know, inclined on knowing about all these guys that No, a majority of them, we kept a piece of them in us that helped us become who we are.

00:49:30.000 Like, I tell motherfuckers all the time, I say, yo, let me tell you something.

00:49:32.000 When we came out, Naughty by Nature was the shit.

00:49:36.000 They was fucking shit up on the East Coast side of things, you know.

00:49:40.000 And at that time, you had them, you had EPMD, you had Queen Latifah, Roxanne Shante, all of these, you know, artists back then were blowing up.

00:49:51.000 LL, can't front on LL, LL. Oh, yeah.

00:49:56.000 LL was huge.

00:49:57.000 Coogee Rap, one of my favorites.

00:49:58.000 I know that's one of your favorites.

00:50:01.000 You know, the Fat Boys, all these guys were just...

00:50:04.000 That's right, Fat Boys.

00:50:05.000 You know, these guys was giving us so much food for thought that we knew that if we didn't come on that level, we wasn't built to be in the game at that time.

00:50:16.000 Well, there was so much high quality.

00:50:18.000 High quality, that's the word.

00:50:20.000 The level was very high.

00:50:21.000 Absolutely.

00:50:22.000 The lyrics were so good.

00:50:24.000 Like, you would hear lyrics and just go, oh!

00:50:26.000 Oh, shit.

00:50:27.000 Yeah.

00:50:28.000 Oh!

00:50:29.000 That was the thing.

00:50:30.000 That was the thing about hip-hop.

00:50:31.000 Listening to the lyrics, I love that.

00:50:32.000 I love lyrics.

00:50:34.000 Lyrics is everything.

00:50:35.000 That's right.

00:50:36.000 That was the style back then.

00:50:40.000 It was like the most clever guy, the most clever lyrics.

00:50:43.000 It was so important.

00:50:45.000 You know?

00:50:46.000 There's so many guys that just had...

00:50:48.000 Everybody was battling for...

00:50:50.000 So it was like more and more cleverness and more and more intricacies and more and more twists of what they were saying.

00:50:57.000 Yeah.

00:50:58.000 And it was just a vibrant art form, man.

00:51:01.000 Like, how many people cheated on their significant other because of OPP? How many?

00:51:06.000 How many relationships?

00:51:09.000 People were cheering!

00:51:11.000 It was like a license to fuck.

00:51:13.000 People were cheering.

00:51:16.000 Hip-hop had so much influence on the culture and it emerged out of nowhere.

00:51:20.000 That's what's so crazy.

00:51:22.000 Like, 10 years ago it doesn't exist.

00:51:23.000 Boom.

00:51:23.000 I mean, even rock and roll.

00:51:25.000 I mean, rock and roll, you had the 50s, it starts to emerge, then the 60s really takes off, and, you know, it'd been around for a while.

00:51:31.000 Right, absolutely.

00:51:32.000 To have something like hip-hop just explode and make a lot of other things look lame.

00:51:37.000 Yeah.

00:51:37.000 You know, especially for young kids because when you hear guys like you and, you know, Ghostface and, you know, Method Man and like, you're dealing with real dudes who are talking about real shit and everybody else just look kind of lame.

00:51:50.000 You know?

00:51:56.000 It was like they didn't even swear.

00:51:59.000 You guys were wild.

00:52:01.000 It was fun and it was clever.

00:52:03.000 And I think RZA did a genius thing by naming it Wu-Tang Clan.

00:52:08.000 Because it connected it to this kung fu mindset.

00:52:12.000 I know you big on kung fu shit.

00:52:15.000 I'm coming through your shrine and shit.

00:52:17.000 He got all kind of fucking...

00:52:19.000 Shogun warriors, assassins.

00:52:20.000 Oh, I have a real samurai outfit out there.

00:52:22.000 Yeah.

00:52:23.000 But nah, but you know what's so crazy?

00:52:24.000 I tell people it's like, when RZA, when they was on they Wu-Tang shit, we wasn't on that.

00:52:32.000 I grew up watching more like Scarface and Mafia movies.

00:52:38.000 Once Upon a Time in America.

00:52:39.000 Oh, yeah.

00:52:40.000 One of my favorite movies.

00:52:41.000 Oh, it's a great one.

00:52:42.000 People forget about Once Upon a Time in America.

00:52:43.000 That's my fucking movie right there.

00:52:45.000 That's my movie.

00:52:46.000 So we were like...

00:52:48.000 We were living in this...

00:52:51.000 We were living around a lot of hustlers.

00:52:53.000 A lot of drugs was being sold in my community at that time, right?

00:52:58.000 So when Rizak came with the whole Wu-Tang philosophy, it was almost like, yeah, we love karate flicks.

00:53:05.000 You know about the karate flicks, 3 o'clock, 3 o'clock.

00:53:05.000 We were watching...

00:53:09.000 We come over to school, them shits is on, Channel 5, all of that shit.

00:53:13.000 But if you notice and you look at those karate movies, it was about a place that...

00:53:20.000 You know, was filled with a lot of crime and aggressive people that were doing things that bothered other people and you either had to protect your people Or you had to make a name for yourself.

00:53:36.000 Now, when you think about Wu-Tang, I'm going to just give you a quick lesson on what Wu-Tang was.

00:53:40.000 Wu-Tang was a school that was in Shaolin.

00:53:44.000 This particular school, these niggas was crazy.

00:53:47.000 They was fucked up.

00:53:49.000 They got kicked the fuck out of Shaolin.

00:53:51.000 Really?

00:53:52.000 They got kicked out.

00:53:54.000 Yo, y'all bugged out.

00:53:55.000 Y'all wildin', y'all.

00:53:57.000 But these guys were very good, but they just couldn't sit in Shaolin because they had a different way of looking at shit and doing shit.

00:54:06.000 So when RZA came with the whole philosophy of it, it's this movie that's called Shaolin vs.

00:54:11.000 Wu-Tang, right?

00:54:13.000 Check it out whenever you get a chance.

00:54:15.000 So whatever was going on in that movie, he made a reality of it because really, at the end of the day, that's how we were living.

00:54:22.000 Back in Staten Island.

00:54:24.000 You know, so we wind up changing the name and calling it Shaolin because we were the forgotten barrel.

00:54:31.000 You know, when you think about Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, Manhattan, we don't really talk too much about fucking Staten Island.

00:54:37.000 That bothered us.

00:54:38.000 So we didn't, we felt rebellious like, yo, you come out here, you ain't from here, you better know somebody.

00:54:45.000 You're not fucking coming into projects thinking you're going to fucking act like you're going over to your friends.

00:54:50.000 I remember we used to see UFOs come through.

00:54:52.000 We call them UFOs, unidentified flying objects.

00:54:56.000 What the fuck he doing here?

00:54:57.000 Yo, follow him.

00:54:58.000 Yo, we came to see.

00:55:00.000 You know what I mean?

00:55:01.000 Because we had so much to prove, but it was the same thing that was going on in the karate flicks.

00:55:06.000 Like, yo, you go to a new neighborhood.

00:55:07.000 Who is this guy?

00:55:08.000 Either he's coming to play you, he's coming to play you, or...

00:55:12.000 Or you gonna play him.

00:55:14.000 This is all the shit that's going on in the karate movies.

00:55:16.000 You know, the brotherhood.

00:55:18.000 Yo, oh shit, my brother got hurt.

00:55:19.000 What happened?

00:55:20.000 Oh, hold up.

00:55:21.000 Let's go.

00:55:22.000 We gotta go get back to that.

00:55:23.000 We gotta go figure that out.

00:55:25.000 All this shit that RZA was thinking about at that time was a reality check for us in Staten Island.

00:55:31.000 So even when he came with the name, it was almost like, yo, wow, that shit is interesting.

00:55:37.000 You know, Wu-Tang Clan, yo.

00:55:39.000 Back then, he was hanging in Ghost's community, which was Stapleton.

00:55:44.000 So, Stapleton was a place that was maybe like 10, 15 miles away from Park Hill, where I'm from.

00:55:51.000 I'm from the hill.

00:55:52.000 Up there, they were selling drugs and getting crazy with it, and Jamaicans, and Westerners, and Guyanese.

00:55:59.000 You know, it was a melting pot.

00:56:01.000 You know, it was a melting pot of different nationalities of motherfuckers.

00:56:05.000 You had the Spanish motherfuckers over here selling dope.

00:56:07.000 You know what I mean?

00:56:08.000 You had the white boys over here fucking doing what they doing.

00:56:12.000 All these things was going on, but in Stapleton, it was nothing but criminals and motherfuckers that want to fight and rob and steal.

00:56:26.000 RZA was hanging out there a lot, you know, so they came up with this whole, you know, Wu-Tang mentality thing that they brought up the block to us.

00:56:36.000 So when RZA came with it, it was like, oh shit, we like that.

00:56:40.000 That's kind of dope.

00:56:41.000 You know, we see the vision of that, you know?

00:56:44.000 But it was never for us to look at it at any given time like, yo, you trying to portray us as some fucking ninjas or some shit.

00:56:52.000 You know, a lot of times people thought, yo, your niggas no karate?

00:56:55.000 You know no fucking karate, motherfucker.

00:56:57.000 We don't do that.

00:56:58.000 But we grew up, our older brothers and sisters, they grew up on it.

00:57:03.000 That was some early 70s shit right there.

00:57:06.000 So, you know, back then you might have had a cousin that was a martial art.

00:57:06.000 Yeah.

00:57:10.000 He knew the arts and shit.

00:57:11.000 You know, you looked up to him like, yo, this motherfucker's ill right here.

00:57:14.000 He know the arts and shit.

00:57:16.000 He know how to fight.

00:57:17.000 You know, your motherfucker would be in the back of the building with two Doberman pinches and shit.

00:57:22.000 You know what I mean?

00:57:22.000 Beating him with fucking laundromat hoses and shit and...

00:57:26.000 You know, grabbing him and hanging him on shit.

00:57:30.000 Back then, that was dope to see your cousins and all of them do it.

00:57:34.000 But RZA, when he came with this philosophy, it kind of fucked us all up.

00:57:38.000 But we agreed with it right away.

00:57:40.000 Because Wu-Tang, to them, was always something like an expression.

00:57:47.000 So if you drinking, this is Wu-Tang drinking.

00:57:50.000 You over here, this is some Wu-Tang shit or whatever.

00:57:54.000 Because he was trying to say that we were just like them in the flicks.

00:57:58.000 It's crazy.

00:57:58.000 Wanna hear something crazy?

00:57:59.000 Whenever I kill an elk, I go bow hunting every year.

00:58:03.000 Whenever I kill an elk, when I text my friend Cam, I text Wu-Tang.

00:58:07.000 Like, whenever I kill something, I'll show you.

00:58:10.000 I'll show you that that's true.

00:58:11.000 I've seen some of the pictures in there.

00:58:12.000 I know, but I want to show you that that's true.

00:58:14.000 I'm not making this up.

00:58:15.000 It goes back years.

00:58:16.000 It goes back years.

00:58:17.000 This is like our tradition.

00:58:19.000 Whenever I kill an elk, well, I'm going to find this.

00:58:22.000 I'm going to find one the last time I said Wu-Tang.

00:58:24.000 I text him every day, so it's going to take a second to get back into some pictures.

00:58:28.000 But whenever I get one, I say Wu-Tang, and then I send him a picture.

00:58:31.000 Oh, shit.

00:58:32.000 Crazy.

00:58:34.000 Crazy.

00:58:35.000 It's gonna take a while because I do scroll, but this is important to show you.

00:58:39.000 This is real.

00:58:40.000 Come on, motherfucker.

00:58:41.000 Go back and search Wu-Tang and it'll show you.

00:58:43.000 Oh, it'll show you?

00:58:43.000 Yeah.

00:58:44.000 Oh, okay.

00:58:44.000 Oh, look at Jamie.

00:58:46.000 Under Cam Haynes or just Wu-Tang?

00:58:48.000 Then when you find Cam Haynes, it'll show you.

00:58:50.000 Oh, look at Jamie telling me how to do it.

00:58:52.000 Sorry.

00:58:53.000 Here we go.

00:58:54.000 See all.

00:58:55.000 Here it is.

00:58:58.000 Right there.

00:58:59.000 Wu-Tang.

00:59:00.000 Holy shit.

00:59:02.000 Holy shit.

00:59:02.000 And then the elders down.

00:59:05.000 That was from October.

00:59:07.000 But I go back like five years of doing that.

00:59:11.000 Like every time I shoot a elk, I text Wu-Tang.

00:59:14.000 When you started hunting, since you came out here?

00:59:16.000 No, I started hunting in 2012. I shot that deer, that deer, that head that's right there.

00:59:22.000 That was the first animal I hunted.

00:59:24.000 And then I was like, okay, that's what I'm doing.

00:59:26.000 Wow, crazy.

00:59:28.000 It was either for me it was that or become a vegetarian.

00:59:31.000 I watched too many of those PETA films.

00:59:33.000 You know, those animal factory farming films and torture films.

00:59:38.000 I was like, fuck this.

00:59:39.000 Like, either I'm gonna be a vegan or I'm gonna learn how to hunt.

00:59:42.000 And my friend Steve Ranella took me hunting.

00:59:45.000 I shot that deer.

00:59:46.000 I'm like, alright, that's what I do now.

00:59:47.000 And I've been doing it ever since.

00:59:49.000 So I've been hunting for 12 years.

00:59:51.000 12 years?

00:59:52.000 Yeah.

00:59:52.000 So you consider yourself a marksman then?

00:59:55.000 Uh, well, it's like, I'm not really good, like, compared to real marksmen.

01:00:00.000 You know, that's like saying you're a black belt when you're not really a black belt.

01:00:03.000 You know, like...

01:00:04.000 I go through the courses.

01:00:05.000 Yeah, like, how good are you?

01:00:07.000 I mean, I'm good for regular people.

01:00:09.000 Yeah, if you didn't know, you'd think I'm really good.

01:00:11.000 Yeah, but like, for people that are really good?

01:00:13.000 No.

01:00:13.000 I'm not nearly at their level.

01:00:16.000 But you know, there's like professional archers that are like super accurate out to 100 yards.

01:00:21.000 They can shoot like a softball sized group at 100 yards consistently.

01:00:26.000 I got a couple of homeboys who can shoot like that though.

01:00:28.000 It's a lot of discipline.

01:00:29.000 Yeah.

01:00:30.000 A lot of discipline.

01:00:31.000 Yeah, but they come from, they live on this side of town too though.

01:00:34.000 Yeah, well there's a lot of bow hunting in Texas.

01:00:36.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

01:00:37.000 A lot of bow hunting in Texas, yeah.

01:00:38.000 It's fun.

01:00:39.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:00:40.000 I like it.

01:00:41.000 I gotta get out there one day, man.

01:00:44.000 I told you.

01:00:45.000 We were talking before the show.

01:00:46.000 If you want to learn, I could put you on some people that will 100% teach you how to do it.

01:00:51.000 Because you're fairly close.

01:00:53.000 That's an easy thing to do.

01:00:54.000 We could hook it up.

01:00:55.000 Definitely.

01:00:56.000 You would enjoy it.

01:00:57.000 It's also a nice discipline to clear your mind.

01:01:00.000 You set a target up in the backyard and just shoot the target.

01:01:03.000 It just clears your mind.

01:01:04.000 Because you have to really concentrate on it.

01:01:06.000 And while you're doing it, you don't think about nothing else.

01:01:09.000 For a guy like you, busy, so much shit going on.

01:01:12.000 It's good to have a thing like that.

01:01:14.000 It's like a sport to me.

01:01:15.000 It's like something to learn and kind of master.

01:01:18.000 That's important.

01:01:19.000 But it's one of those things like shooting a free throw.

01:01:22.000 Like at that moment, you can't think of anything else other than what you're doing.

01:01:26.000 If other shit gets in your head, it's like you don't have any room for it.

01:01:30.000 You've got to push it all out.

01:01:31.000 And that kind of stuff cleans your mind.

01:01:35.000 It's like it flushes your mind out.

01:01:37.000 That's what it's all about at the end of the day, man.

01:01:40.000 Just kind of like get a peace of mind and vibe to something different though.

01:01:45.000 Yeah.

01:01:45.000 I always say that for artists too.

01:01:47.000 You should find some other thing you like to do.

01:01:49.000 Just to give you a little break mentally from whatever you're trying to do.

01:01:53.000 Exactly.

01:01:53.000 You could get too close to something and lose sight of the big picture if you're all wrapped up in it.

01:01:59.000 Because you're so stuck into one.

01:02:01.000 Sometimes you need something else that you also enjoy outside of it and then you can look at what you're doing.

01:02:05.000 Okay, what am I doing?

01:02:06.000 Different.

01:02:07.000 Exactly.

01:02:08.000 Maybe I should put a new wrinkle in this.

01:02:10.000 Maybe I should take a new turn, you know?

01:02:12.000 Mix it up.

01:02:13.000 That's important, man.

01:02:15.000 You know what's another cool thing about today is that it used to be thought at one point in time, I think it was like the early 2000s, that rap had That hip hop had a shelf life.

01:02:30.000 And that there wouldn't be classics.

01:02:32.000 You know what I mean?

01:02:33.000 Like the Rolling Stones were still touring.

01:02:35.000 You know, they were 58 years old back then.

01:02:38.000 Like, this is crazy.

01:02:38.000 The Rolling Stones are back on the road.

01:02:39.000 But that was like a new thing.

01:02:42.000 It was like old rock and roll guys out touring was a new thing.

01:02:45.000 But with hip hop artists, if you weren't in now, if you weren't new now, people weren't in to go and see you.

01:02:53.000 Right, yeah.

01:02:54.000 Well, when I see guys like LL and Kane and them perform and Slick Rick and Ice Cube, it gives me more leverage and more strength to want to do it because I see some of my legends still doing it today.

01:03:11.000 But yeah, man, like you said, just to see a lot of guys like the Rolling Stones and Mick Jagger and them still performing, it's like, why not?

01:03:21.000 Why not?

01:03:22.000 Why not?

01:03:22.000 Why give up on it, you know?

01:03:24.000 But with hip-hop, it wasn't really a thing for a long time.

01:03:27.000 Nah, because you didn't think that it would last.

01:03:29.000 Right.

01:03:30.000 You know what I mean?

01:03:31.000 So you felt like...

01:03:32.000 You would get a five-year run.

01:03:35.000 They say any artist that was coming out back in the 90s, they was already putting a cap on how long or how far they felt you was going to go.

01:03:44.000 So even for us, we was like, yo, hey, we do this shit for like three or four years.

01:03:49.000 We good.

01:03:50.000 Yo, we'll be cool with that.

01:03:52.000 So they always put us in a...

01:03:56.000 What's the word I want to say?

01:03:58.000 What's that?

01:03:59.000 A box?

01:04:00.000 Put us in a box.

01:04:01.000 Yeah.

01:04:01.000 To make us feel like at the end of the day, yo, this shit is going to be here for a minute, then it's over.

01:04:06.000 But seeing guys still doing it, I don't give a fuck.

01:04:11.000 I listen to Billy Joe.

01:04:12.000 I'm a Billy Joe fan.

01:04:14.000 That's my fucking guy right there.

01:04:15.000 That's hilarious.

01:04:18.000 I know people would be like, get the fuck out of here.

01:04:19.000 That's hilarious.

01:04:20.000 I love his old shit.

01:04:21.000 Until he had that supermodel wife, then everything got real soft.

01:04:26.000 And then he got too much good pussy.

01:04:30.000 Too much good pussy.

01:04:31.000 He got supermodel pussy.

01:04:33.000 And it's like, uptown girl, she's been living in her uptown world.

01:04:38.000 Before that, you go back to his other shit, you know?

01:04:41.000 Owen the good Diane.

01:04:44.000 He's got some great stuff, man.

01:04:46.000 Scenes from an Italian restaurant, that's a great song, man.

01:04:49.000 Captain Jack, ooh, Captain Jack's a great song.

01:04:52.000 Billy Joe, man.

01:04:53.000 But when he got older, it just became, you know, he was changing as a human.

01:04:57.000 He in New Yorker too, right?

01:04:59.000 Yeah.

01:04:59.000 New Yorker to the heart right there, right?

01:05:00.000 That guy sold out Madison Square Garden like 300 times.

01:05:04.000 See what I'm saying?

01:05:04.000 Still going.

01:05:05.000 Still going.

01:05:07.000 Yeah, still going.

01:05:07.000 So those are our heroes.

01:05:09.000 Those are guys that we look up to that, you know, they still doing anything, man.

01:05:15.000 Yeah.

01:05:15.000 It's just beautiful that hip-hop is like that now.

01:05:18.000 Yeah.

01:05:18.000 Because I feel like in the 2000s, it was more overseas was showing you guys love.

01:05:25.000 Yeah.

01:05:25.000 Like a lot of Europe.

01:05:27.000 Yeah.

01:05:27.000 A lot of my friends that were maybe bigger in the 90s, they had to go over to Europe.

01:05:32.000 To come check out hip hop.

01:05:35.000 And I tell people all the time, being from the States, being where we from, I think they appreciate it more because they never really got a chance to grasp it as much as we did.

01:05:47.000 So they come out more.

01:05:49.000 Right.

01:05:50.000 They're more enthusiastic.

01:05:51.000 They love it more.

01:05:53.000 They can't believe you're there.

01:05:54.000 Yeah, they can't believe it.

01:05:55.000 But for me, I think I love performing a lot more when I go out there because they come out and they never, ever make you feel like they don't appreciate you.

01:06:09.000 You know what I mean?

01:06:10.000 And even to this day, it's like the Klan still goes out there and makes a ton of cash.

01:06:18.000 We see a lot of people.

01:06:20.000 And we see young generations of kids now, too.

01:06:23.000 It's like, yo, you look in the crowd.

01:06:24.000 You're like, fuck.

01:06:25.000 How old is that fucking kid that we just put him on stage and he knew the fucking words.

01:06:30.000 Like, yo, he might have been like 17, 16 years old.

01:06:34.000 Like, yo, he wasn't even fucking born.

01:06:36.000 Well, there's classic hip-hop now.

01:06:38.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:06:39.000 Like, when I was a kid, there was classic rock.

01:06:41.000 You listen to Led Zeppelin.

01:06:42.000 It was classic rock.

01:06:43.000 Now there's classic hip-hop.

01:06:45.000 Wow.

01:06:45.000 Which is amazing.

01:06:46.000 Yeah, you're right.

01:06:48.000 Well, it just shows that the culture has completely accepted it as an art form.

01:06:53.000 And so now young kids that get into hip-hop, maybe one of their friends will be like, hey, you ever heard of this?

01:06:59.000 And then they turn them on to new stuff.

01:07:00.000 Exactly.

01:07:01.000 And they're like, wow, yeah, yeah, this is 1992, you know?

01:07:04.000 That shit, you know, and I think that that's how we were.

01:07:07.000 We always were infatuated with the music before our time, you know?

01:07:12.000 I'm like how you just said, like, yo, you know, listening to Sugar Hill Gang, you know?

01:07:17.000 I actually had them in one of my videos before.

01:07:19.000 Really?

01:07:20.000 Word, you know how that, and I brought them to my hood, too, so you know how that felt for me.

01:07:24.000 Oh, wow.

01:07:24.000 To have fucking Sugar Hill Gang come out to my community.

01:07:28.000 That's amazing.

01:07:29.000 That was dope, though, right there, man.

01:07:31.000 But yeah, man, you know, that's why I always feel like, yo, I tell people all the time, you have to respect the people that did it before you, man, because they gave you something to dream about.

01:07:43.000 Yes.

01:07:44.000 To be able to instill in yourself.

01:07:46.000 Like, if you don't have that, then you're not moving the way you're supposed to be moving.

01:07:52.000 Yeah.

01:07:52.000 You know, I remember old man would tell us, if you don't know where you came from, you'll never know where you're going.

01:07:57.000 So having that history, that history is an experience that sticks with you forever.

01:08:03.000 You have to have that.

01:08:06.000 Don't try to front on that.

01:08:08.000 You know, and I think a lot of times people, you know, they look at hip-hop and they think certain things is hip-hop.

01:08:15.000 It's like history...

01:08:18.000 Of hip-hop is something that you gotta know, man.

01:08:20.000 You gotta know it.

01:08:21.000 You gotta know it.

01:08:23.000 You should know it like the history of the United States.

01:08:25.000 Exactly.

01:08:26.000 It's something, if you're an artist, like, that's what lit the fire.

01:08:30.000 Somebody had to light the fire.

01:08:32.000 And if these young guys don't know, like, hey, this shit didn't even exist in 1979. It didn't even exist.

01:08:38.000 That's not that long ago.

01:08:39.000 And then all of a sudden, now it's everywhere?

01:08:40.000 Like, what happened?

01:08:41.000 Somebody lit the fire, and if they didn't light that fire, you wouldn't have it.

01:08:45.000 You wouldn't have the embers.

01:08:46.000 You wouldn't have this desire to try this thing.

01:08:49.000 Exactly.

01:08:50.000 Now look what it's doing.

01:08:51.000 Look what it did.

01:08:52.000 It's like, yo, one of the biggest genres of music is like, you know, and there's a lot of times people take shots at it.

01:09:00.000 Like, you know, y'all ain't talking negative.

01:09:02.000 Y'all ain't talking this.

01:09:03.000 They talking that.

01:09:04.000 It's like, my thing to that is always like, yo, it's no different from going to see a scary movie.

01:09:11.000 Exactly.

01:09:12.000 Jason.

01:09:13.000 Exactly.

01:09:14.000 This motherfucker's killing motherfuckers in the woods.

01:09:15.000 I hated camp.

01:09:16.000 You know what I mean?

01:09:17.000 Based on that, Heat is one of my favorite movies.

01:09:20.000 Great fucking movie.

01:09:20.000 I love Heat.

01:09:21.000 You know, De Niro and Al.

01:09:23.000 But why is it okay to do that in a movie, but it's not okay to do that in a song?

01:09:26.000 Right.

01:09:26.000 I don't understand it.

01:09:28.000 I don't, you know, but...

01:09:28.000 It's hypocritical.

01:09:30.000 You know, it's hypocritical.

01:09:31.000 It is.

01:09:32.000 It's hypocritical because they say it encourages violence.

01:09:34.000 And that's the same thing they'll say about video games.

01:09:37.000 Like, you know, doesn't hit everybody.

01:09:40.000 Yeah.

01:09:40.000 So what's going on really?

01:09:42.000 What's going on really is you have a bunch of disenfranchised people that don't have any hope.

01:09:45.000 And if they are around a lot of violence, maybe something will get them excited about violence.

01:09:50.000 If they're not disenfranchised and they have hope, they're not inclined towards violence.

01:09:54.000 Right.

01:09:54.000 It's a societal problem.

01:09:56.000 It has nothing to do with the art itself.

01:09:57.000 The art itself is representative of real experiences.

01:10:00.000 So if you're telling people that they can't express themselves about real experiences, you're just going like this.

01:10:05.000 La, la, la, la, la.

01:10:06.000 I'm not listening.

01:10:07.000 That's all you're doing.

01:10:08.000 That's how you're feeling at the end of the day.

01:10:10.000 This is these people's lived expression, which is why Wu-Tang was so good.

01:10:15.000 The reason why it was so good is because it was real.

01:10:17.000 No one was questioning the authenticity of anybody that was in the Wu-Tang Clan.

01:10:21.000 So it's like that...

01:10:22.000 The message that you guys were putting out, the way you were putting things out, like Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothing to fuck with.

01:10:28.000 It was like from you to the world.

01:10:34.000 And if someone doesn't like that, you don't have to listen.

01:10:37.000 You don't have to listen.

01:10:39.000 But if you slap a warning sticker on it, you're just going to sell more albums.

01:10:42.000 You're going to listen to it anyway.

01:10:43.000 You're going to get caught up in it anyway.

01:10:46.000 It's like, look, prime example.

01:10:48.000 When we made the record Cream, right?

01:10:53.000 Cream was a record that didn't have nothing to do with anything but the realness of what we were looking at.

01:11:03.000 It wasn't really a song to rap to or have fun with.

01:11:06.000 It was a reality.

01:11:07.000 It was a picture we was trying to paint.

01:11:09.000 Cash rules everything around me.

01:11:11.000 Cash rules.

01:11:12.000 Around me, not me.

01:11:14.000 Should never fucking rule you, but around me.

01:11:17.000 You know, and a friend from the neighborhood, he actually came up with that acronym.

01:11:22.000 But I tell people all the time, my cousin, I had a cousin from Brooklyn that he used to come to Staten Island and he used to sell drugs for us and he came up with that word, cream, because he was like, yo...

01:11:34.000 Y'all, as long as I can make my cream, I'm good.

01:11:36.000 I'm like, what the fuck is cream?

01:11:38.000 Like, you know what I mean?

01:11:39.000 He's like, yo, cream, yo, you ever see Tom and Jerry, the movie, and, you know, he make those big fucking sandwiches and all of that, and he splash all that cream on it, and, you know, I'm like, oh, the Tom and Jerry, the sandwiches, right?

01:11:50.000 Yeah, when he made the big sandwiches, and stuff them in your mouth and all.

01:11:55.000 Nah, real shit, real shit.

01:11:57.000 So the cream that was splashing all over the place, he was looking at that as that's his money.

01:12:02.000 Like, I just want my cream.

01:12:04.000 I just want my cream.

01:12:05.000 You know what I mean?

01:12:06.000 So we like, yeah, you're going to get your cream.

01:12:07.000 You sit up in the fucking spot all day, you're going to make your cream.

01:12:10.000 You're going to get it.

01:12:12.000 So who came up with the acronym?

01:12:14.000 A good friend of ours from the neighborhood.

01:12:17.000 His name is Raid, right?

01:12:19.000 And him and Meth, man, they was like real close, like brothers.

01:12:22.000 So when we was in the studio, right into it, he was there and he just sat back and he just came up with Cash Rules, everything around me.

01:12:34.000 And him and Meth, they put it together and next thing you know, that was a hook.

01:12:39.000 You know, at that time, for me, I was still writing a lot of stories.

01:12:44.000 You know, so I wrote, believe it or not, I wrote two verses for Cream.

01:12:48.000 I didn't write.

01:12:49.000 My rhyme never started off as I grew up on the crime side.

01:12:52.000 I was writing about drug dealers in the neighborhood, like, yo, I know this kid by the name of Giganti.

01:12:58.000 Giganti a Teflon Don with a Diamante.

01:13:01.000 You know, the Diamante's back in the days was like the, you know, the five series Benz's for us back then.

01:13:07.000 And a good friend of mine was like, oh, that rhyme is cool.

01:13:11.000 I think it's all right.

01:13:13.000 Like, why you don't like the rhyme?

01:13:15.000 Everybody else like it.

01:13:16.000 He was like, it's cool.

01:13:18.000 I like it.

01:13:19.000 So he made me go back and change it.

01:13:22.000 And when I changed it, I started to think before I wrote it.

01:13:25.000 I'm like, damn.

01:13:26.000 He said, yo, if you need to rhyme about shit, that's something that we could relate to, that we're dealing with around what the fuck we wake up to every day.

01:13:34.000 And that's when I came with, I grew up on the crime side, you know, the New York Times side.

01:13:40.000 So he just told you harder?

01:13:44.000 Yeah, he just told me to think harder.

01:13:45.000 Harder, yeah.

01:13:46.000 He said, yo, chef, you could be a little bit more creative.

01:13:51.000 Well, Kareem is crazy because it became viral.

01:13:54.000 Saying dollar-dollar bills, y'all, became viral.

01:13:57.000 But you know where that come from, the dollar-dollar bill, y'all.

01:14:00.000 Dollar bill, y'all.

01:14:01.000 Dollar-dollar-dollar Teela Rock.

01:14:03.000 Oh, wow.

01:14:05.000 You remember that record?

01:14:06.000 Yeah.

01:14:07.000 Money.

01:14:07.000 It takes money.

01:14:09.000 Yeah.

01:14:10.000 Whatever he was saying back then.

01:14:12.000 I haven't heard that forever.

01:14:15.000 Yeah, that's an old-school record right there.

01:14:17.000 Fly shit, though.

01:14:18.000 But yeah, Meph and my man Ray, they sat down and they came up with cash, fuel, everything around me.

01:14:26.000 And it was a perfect symbol of what we were trying to express, that we were always trying to get money, but we was dealing with certain things in our community that we were trying to get past first to try to make some money.

01:14:44.000 And it was a sacrifice.

01:14:45.000 It was like, yo, you do this shit, you might be able to get out of it alive, or you might not.

01:14:50.000 So that record wind up blowing up so big, it wind up being one of our biggest records.

01:14:57.000 And it didn't have nothing to do with...

01:15:00.000 I guess, to me, it didn't feel hip-hop.

01:15:03.000 It just felt like real realization, like real shit is we need to start listening, like how you just played the Gettos Boys shit, you know what I mean?

01:15:13.000 We're trying to give off a message, a message.

01:15:15.000 And that's what I think that people love about Wu-Tang is that we give out messages.

01:15:22.000 We give out...

01:15:23.000 We like an emotional rollercoaster group.

01:15:26.000 We can give you the Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothing to fuck with.

01:15:29.000 And then we can give you the tears where it's like, oh shit.

01:15:32.000 Yeah.

01:15:33.000 The fuck?

01:15:34.000 He's right.

01:15:34.000 You know what I mean?

01:15:35.000 Yo, we gotta be careful.

01:15:37.000 We gotta look at things for real.

01:15:40.000 So all that had a lot to do with being around smart guys.

01:15:44.000 You know what I mean?

01:15:45.000 The smartness allowed us to write the way we wanted to write.

01:15:49.000 Right.

01:15:50.000 It's contagious.

01:15:51.000 It was contagious back then.

01:15:53.000 Yeah.

01:15:54.000 That's what I'm saying about really good lyrics and high quality rap.

01:15:57.000 It's contagious.

01:15:58.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:15:59.000 Because then everybody else's shit has to be tight too.

01:16:01.000 Yeah, and you know when you come in with a group of guys that, yo, he kill it, you better come in.

01:16:06.000 Right.

01:16:07.000 You have to come in and say some shit that makes sense.

01:16:11.000 I give a lot of credit to our first record, Protect Your Neck, and I know that's one of your favorite shits.

01:16:17.000 When Inspector Deck said, I smoke on a mic like smoking Joe Frazier, the Hellraiser, raising hell with the flavor?

01:16:25.000 Yeah.

01:16:27.000 That right there opened up something with all of us.

01:16:32.000 Yeah.

01:16:32.000 You know, and...

01:16:34.000 I always tell Deck, I'm like, yo Deck, you are like a Scotty Pippen.

01:16:40.000 You're always going to hit if you get the ball in your hand.

01:16:43.000 And he did that.

01:16:45.000 He created those that first verse that you notice me I jumped right in my honor.

01:16:51.000 Yeah Like Schwarzenegger.

01:16:53.000 Yeah, the meth came and you know, I mean everybody kind of like that's what's so amazing about All these killers all these different voices all these amazing lyrics all on one song.

01:17:05.000 Yeah, yeah But we wanted to show the world that Each one of us had a style that was unreckoned.

01:17:14.000 Each one of us can paint a picture within our own way that you will love all of us.

01:17:20.000 So it's better to get us all now You know, we'll sacrifice the little look for the bigger look later.

01:17:29.000 Right.

01:17:29.000 You know, and that was one of the situations where we had to dance a certain way to be like, okay, yeah, we'll take a little bit of money, but we know we're going to be able to sell.

01:17:39.000 Like you said, yeah, give us those 50. We'll sell them.

01:17:42.000 Now, we know you're telling me you don't got the money, but you got the relationships.

01:17:46.000 Okay, cool.

01:17:48.000 As long as you got the relationship.

01:17:49.000 As long as you got the money.

01:17:50.000 We're going to go out there and we're going to work to make it happen, but this is what's got to happen.

01:17:57.000 I give all the credit to Steve Rifkin.

01:18:02.000 Steve was the guy that owned Loud Records back then.

01:18:06.000 He was a part of RCA back then.

01:18:11.000 And he believed in us.

01:18:13.000 He's like, yo, I'll give y'all that deal.

01:18:15.000 I'll give y'all that deal.

01:18:16.000 And next thing you know, when everybody started taking off, now you got Method Man over here.

01:18:21.000 You got Jizz over here.

01:18:22.000 You got Holy Bastard over here.

01:18:24.000 So we did something that was so new to the world that...

01:18:29.000 It's like, oh shit.

01:18:30.000 From the outside, it felt different because it felt like a movement.

01:18:34.000 Right.

01:18:34.000 It's like Wu-Tang was like a movement.

01:18:36.000 Exactly.

01:18:36.000 It was different.

01:18:37.000 But everybody tried the boxes.

01:18:39.000 Everybody tried the boxes as a group.

01:18:41.000 Yeah.

01:18:41.000 So even though we knew we were a group, in our minds, we looked at it, like you said, as a movement being created that would eventually spread out.

01:18:50.000 And hit all corners of everything.

01:18:53.000 And that was the plan all the time.

01:18:56.000 That was a premeditated plan.

01:18:57.000 Because they wanted us to still be a group.

01:19:00.000 It was like, nah, we...

01:19:02.000 Look, we sacrificing this and that, but we not going to box ourselves.

01:19:07.000 Right.

01:19:08.000 You know, so by us doing that, it kind of like really paid the way for other groups and other artists and everybody to kind of You know, follow this blueprint.

01:19:20.000 So now you have, you know, these other guys coming out and creating their own labels and bringing in artists that they wanted to do.

01:19:28.000 So to me, this kind of made hip-hop a little bit more interesting because it showed that artists were starting to get more smarter, which is important.

01:19:38.000 You know, we didn't want to be just Like you said, yo, just coming in and you sell your soul and you just stay there.

01:19:46.000 Nah, we can't just stay there.

01:19:47.000 Is one of the hardest parts getting the right beat?

01:19:50.000 Oh.

01:19:52.000 The beat is everything, bro.

01:19:54.000 Because it seems like all you guys are very prolific.

01:19:57.000 Everybody can write.

01:19:59.000 But if you don't have a great beat, and how many great beats can you make, right?

01:20:05.000 If you got an album, then another album's coming out next year, like, whoa, you gotta have 16, 20 great beats, and then you gotta pick from those beats what goes with what song, and try different ways out, and you gotta make sure everybody shows up at the studio?

01:20:20.000 How hard was that?

01:20:21.000 That shit was real, bro.

01:20:22.000 I mean, I tell people all the time, number one for us, being around so many different lyricists, lyricist guys, Beats are important.

01:20:35.000 You know, I remember one time a fan asked me, he said, yo, what's the most important thing to you, the rhyme or the beat?

01:20:40.000 He fucked me up the whole day with that.

01:20:42.000 I was fucked up.

01:20:44.000 And I answered him, I gave him an answer like probably like three or four minutes later and I was like, you know what?

01:20:51.000 Nobody never asked me that.

01:20:53.000 I said, the beat.

01:20:54.000 I said, you know why the beat?

01:20:56.000 Because the beat Makes you think about what you want to say and what you want to get across.

01:21:03.000 Anybody could make rhymes.

01:21:05.000 I can have you sit with me for fucking a month and you could be an ill fucking rapper.

01:21:11.000 You!

01:21:11.000 I can take you there.

01:21:13.000 But to be able to have that combination factor of making...

01:21:19.000 work or that sound that you want you need to have the right production so a lot of times Wu-Tang wrote to whatever they felt it's like how you can listen to Protect Your Neck and you get that energy from us you know you get a certain energy because of that production then you get this energy when you get You get a cream, you get that.

01:21:41.000 So for me, I always tell people that beat is everything.

01:21:45.000 And us just sitting down and waiting for RZA to come up with something.

01:21:50.000 One thing about RZA, he was so clever.

01:21:53.000 He had a team of guys that was around him that was assisting him.

01:21:57.000 To helping him come with different sounds and, you know, he played with different things.

01:22:02.000 And of course, you know, just having his ear for music and listening to other people's stuff, he was able to isolate himself away from everything and start brainstorming for us.

01:22:14.000 So it's like a...

01:22:15.000 He was like a...

01:22:17.000 He was like the Steelers back in the fucking 80s, you know what I mean?

01:22:22.000 When they won four Super Bowls in a row.

01:22:25.000 He was like that when Terry Bradshaw was playing, Lin Swan.

01:22:28.000 He was in a zone.

01:22:30.000 He was really in a zone.

01:22:32.000 Especially because it became successful.

01:22:34.000 Yeah.

01:22:34.000 And then there was a lot of motivation behind it, a lot of energy behind it.

01:22:37.000 Yeah.

01:22:38.000 I hear what you're saying, but without the lyrics, the beat is not the same.

01:22:43.000 I see from your perspective as a lyricist and as an MC that you would think that the beat is more important because it's important to you to get started.

01:22:51.000 To get started.

01:22:52.000 But damn, as a fan...

01:22:54.000 You have to have those lyrics.

01:22:56.000 Just the beats by themselves, that's not enough.

01:22:58.000 Look.

01:22:59.000 No, no, no, no, no.

01:22:59.000 You know how many times me and Wizzy would argue about that?

01:23:02.000 And I would tell them like, yo, listen, bro.

01:23:04.000 It took all of us.

01:23:06.000 Yeah, you had that.

01:23:08.000 You had this, we had that.

01:23:11.000 It's a 50-50 proposition.

01:23:13.000 It's always like that.

01:23:14.000 I think it's more 60-40.

01:23:15.000 I think it's more 60 lyrics because the thing is, the lyrics are the thing that make you go, oh!

01:23:22.000 A great beat makes you move your head and gets you going, but lyrics make you go, oh, shit!

01:23:29.000 Rewind that.

01:23:30.000 Well, you know, me is 50-50 all the time because if I have nothing to give me that energy to write, then how can I give it to you if I don't have nothing?

01:23:41.000 It's a collaboration for sure.

01:23:42.000 It's a collaboration for sure.

01:23:44.000 But it's interesting that people would think, like, what's more important?

01:23:47.000 Like, what's more important, breathing or having a heartbeat?

01:23:50.000 Shut the fuck up.

01:23:51.000 Like, you need both.

01:23:52.000 You need both.

01:23:53.000 Yeah, you gotta balance it.

01:23:54.000 You have to have both.

01:23:55.000 But that's where the collaboration comes in.

01:23:57.000 Yeah, I had Scott Storch in here the other day.

01:23:59.000 Oh, what?

01:24:00.000 Oh, yeah, I love that dude.

01:24:01.000 He's so fucking talented.

01:24:03.000 So out there, you know?

01:24:05.000 His glasses on, his fucking chin.

01:24:07.000 Like, you see him feeling the music.

01:24:09.000 It's like a rare savant.

01:24:11.000 There's dudes like that that are like beat machines, you know?

01:24:15.000 Like, he just feels it.

01:24:16.000 It comes into his head, and he feels it, and it's just coming out of his fingers, you know?

01:24:20.000 Yeah, he's a super talented.

01:24:22.000 Oh, so talented.

01:24:23.000 I love him.

01:24:24.000 But, like, that kind of guy is so special.

01:24:27.000 And, you know, to team the kind of guy like that up with Dre or, you know, with, you know, 50 or any of these people that he collaborated with, it's like, that's special.

01:24:38.000 And that's why, like I said, you know what I mean?

01:24:40.000 You can't never front on the maestro, you know what I mean?

01:24:44.000 You gotta remember that, you know...

01:24:46.000 DJing started it all.

01:24:48.000 Let's be honest.

01:24:49.000 You know what I mean?

01:24:50.000 The DJ game.

01:24:51.000 Scratching records.

01:24:52.000 That was so important.

01:24:53.000 Scratching.

01:24:53.000 You know, they created a synergy to the artists to be like, yo, let me try this.

01:25:01.000 Even if you go back to, like I said, look at Quincy Jones, man.

01:25:05.000 Look what the fuck he did, man.

01:25:07.000 Right, right.

01:25:08.000 You know, look at Frank Sinatra.

01:25:09.000 Like, who the fuck was handling his fucking music, man?

01:25:12.000 Right.

01:25:13.000 He was so clever.

01:25:14.000 He needed a vibe, though.

01:25:15.000 He needed something to...

01:25:16.000 Who was that guy?

01:25:18.000 You ever hear of Frank Sinatra when he was young?

01:25:20.000 Oh, he was fucking...

01:25:21.000 Before he was smoking all those cigarettes?

01:25:23.000 It's a super high-pitched voice.

01:25:25.000 It's crazy.

01:25:25.000 It's crazy, right?

01:25:26.000 It's crazy.

01:25:27.000 You listen to the difference, like, wow, it had so much range.

01:25:30.000 Who was the production, though?

01:25:31.000 I don't know.

01:25:32.000 He never really got famous, I guess.

01:25:36.000 Well, I think the whole thing back then was Elvis or whoever it was.

01:25:40.000 Whoever was the person that was in front, everybody behind the scenes didn't really get that much respect.

01:25:45.000 Right, right.

01:25:46.000 But he was a talent.

01:25:47.000 Yeah.

01:25:49.000 Who was that crazy dude that wore the wigs that shot that lady in L.A.? He produced all the Beatles shit.

01:25:56.000 He got tried for murder, and every day in the courtroom he'd wear a different wild wig.

01:26:01.000 He created the wall of sound.

01:26:03.000 Fuck, what's his name?

01:26:04.000 He was really insane.

01:26:05.000 Phil Spector.

01:26:06.000 Phil Spector.

01:26:07.000 Phil Spector, back in the day, he was known for pulling guns on people.

01:26:11.000 He'd pull guns on people, stick them in their mouths and shit.

01:26:13.000 He was a complete psychopath.

01:26:15.000 White guy?

01:26:16.000 Yeah, and he's a Jewish guy, I think.

01:26:18.000 And he shot this lady in the mouth.

01:26:21.000 Was he Jewish?

01:26:22.000 I don't want any Jewish people mad at me.

01:26:24.000 Jewish people get mad when you say someone's not Jewish and they did something terrible.

01:26:29.000 Hey, look guys, we not here to fuck with nobody.

01:26:31.000 I'm just saying a lot of talented, successful Jewish people in the entertainment business.

01:26:36.000 Be clear, man, yeah.

01:26:37.000 But that dude, he was responsible for the wall of sound, the Beatles.

01:26:43.000 That was a big thing with him.

01:26:45.000 He was known for being a guy that would change people's music.

01:26:50.000 Russian-Jewish, boom, nailed it!

01:26:53.000 And he was from the Bronx, right?

01:26:54.000 From the Bronx, yeah.

01:26:56.000 Wild, wild boy.

01:26:58.000 And shot some lady, picked up some lady at a bar, took her back to his place and shot her in the mouth.

01:27:04.000 Holy shit.

01:27:05.000 Yeah, he would put guns in people's mouths.

01:27:07.000 Like, he was known for threatening people.

01:27:08.000 Like, you want to get out of this fucking contract and just shove a gun in your mouth.

01:27:12.000 Wow.

01:27:13.000 What's that?

01:27:14.000 He pulled a gun on Cher!

01:27:18.000 Shay recalls stopping Phil Spector in his tracks when he pulled a gun on her.

01:27:22.000 He couldn't pull that shit with me.

01:27:23.000 Right, right, right, right.

01:27:24.000 We had this really strange relationship.

01:27:26.000 You don't say!

01:27:27.000 You don't say.

01:27:29.000 Well, it's like the music business at one point in time was run entirely by gangsters.

01:27:34.000 Of course.

01:27:34.000 That's the story about Hendrix.

01:27:36.000 You know, the story about Hendrix is that his manager killed him.

01:27:39.000 That's the conspiracy, was that his manager killed him because it's more valuable for Hendrix to be dead.

01:27:44.000 His music, he's a...

01:27:47.000 My maestro like a one-in-a-billion-year talent and that they knew that they had all these recordings of him and they could kill him.

01:27:55.000 And so that's why his girlfriend jumped on top of a building.

01:27:59.000 Yeah, to own his shit because he was gonna leave his management.

01:28:02.000 His bodyguard wrote a book about it years later and it just came out like I want to say like 10 years ago?

01:28:09.000 Wasn't that long ago.

01:28:10.000 Whereas the bodyguard said, yeah, the manager killed him.

01:28:13.000 Killed Hendrix and threw the girlfriend off a roof.

01:28:16.000 Didn't they do a movie of him too?

01:28:17.000 Oh yeah, they did a bunch of movies on Hendrix.

01:28:19.000 They need to do a real Wu-Tang movie.

01:28:22.000 I know Hulu had a series, but they need a real, like, Quentin Tarantino needs to do a Wu-Tang.

01:28:27.000 That's me, man!

01:28:28.000 I know Quentin Tarantino.

01:28:29.000 That's what I think.

01:28:30.000 I think we talk Quentin Tarantino, because he wants to do one more movie.

01:28:33.000 How about he does a fucking Wu-Tang movie?

01:28:36.000 The real Wu-Tang movie.

01:28:38.000 Tell Quentin I'll laugh.

01:28:39.000 Hulu's great, but it has to be on Hulu.

01:28:41.000 You can only get that so wild on Hulu.

01:28:44.000 For it to be real real, it has to be a movie.

01:28:48.000 Let me tell you something.

01:28:50.000 I wrote a book, right?

01:28:52.000 And inside my book I talked about how Q-Tip, a good friend of mine, Q-Tip, he had me and Leonardo sit down.

01:29:02.000 Leonardo DiCaprio?

01:29:03.000 Huh?

01:29:04.000 Leonardo DiCaprio?

01:29:04.000 Leonardo DiCaprio, right?

01:29:06.000 And I remember Q-Tip was like, yo, set up a meeting for you and Leonardo to meet in Brooklyn at this small pizza shop, one of Leonardo's favorite spots, and he want to talk to you.

01:29:17.000 I said, yeah, that's what's up.

01:29:19.000 So me and Leonardo, we started talking, and he was like, yo, Q-Tip was telling me that you was thinking about trying to, you know, get guys together to create a movie.

01:29:29.000 I was like, yeah, this is what I was thinking.

01:29:32.000 So, to make a long story short, I set up a meeting with RZA, myself, Leonardo's peoples in L.A. And I told RZA, I said, listen, before we do this Hulu thing, which...

01:29:48.000 At the end of the day, it was a RZA's production thing or whatever he was doing.

01:29:53.000 I said, I think we need to make a realistic, real-life movie of us.

01:29:59.000 I said, it shouldn't be nothing that we should play with because people need to know our real story.

01:30:06.000 So RZA entertained the conversation, but...

01:30:10.000 I don't know.

01:30:11.000 For some reason, I guess he felt like he was committed to doing whatever he wanted to do with Hulu.

01:30:16.000 He might have already had a deal.

01:30:17.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:30:18.000 And you know, like I said, at the end of the day, the Klan, you know what I mean?

01:30:22.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:30:23.000 Jamie, fast with him.

01:30:24.000 Jamie's the best.

01:30:25.000 It was that night, and I remember that.

01:30:27.000 Wow.

01:30:28.000 I wish we could have been able to sit down with him, because the way I had him looking at it, It was almost like I told him, I said, this would be like a slash of Goodfellas and Menace to Society.

01:30:44.000 Yeah.

01:30:45.000 Mixed in one.

01:30:46.000 Yeah.

01:30:46.000 You know, to kind of talk about our story and whatever.

01:30:49.000 And he was super open.

01:30:51.000 He was like, yo, chef, what we got to do?

01:30:53.000 Yo, who do we need to talk to?

01:30:55.000 But at that time, RZA was already in pocket on what he wanted to do.

01:31:00.000 So I said, you know what?

01:31:01.000 One day...

01:31:02.000 You know, maybe I might get a chance to show my version of it.

01:31:05.000 Because, come on, how many Pablo Escobar movies we looked at?

01:31:09.000 Right, right, right.

01:31:10.000 You know what I mean?

01:31:10.000 You got these guys telling it, you got the people from the community.

01:31:12.000 Oh, for sure.

01:31:13.000 It can still be made, for sure.

01:31:14.000 So it can still be made.

01:31:15.000 100%.

01:31:16.000 Just because there's a Hulu, that doesn't mean shit.

01:31:18.000 Right.

01:31:19.000 But I think that at the end of the day, you know, God willing, we would really give you guys another taste of really how we really see it.

01:31:31.000 Well, I think it would be hugely successful.

01:31:33.000 I think for music, from a movie, rather, perspective.

01:31:36.000 Would you rather see it as a movie?

01:31:38.000 A movie.

01:31:39.000 There you go.

01:31:40.000 Or you do it like on Netflix where you can get wild.

01:31:44.000 Netflix has shit like Ozark.

01:31:47.000 They get wild on Netflix.

01:31:49.000 You can get wild.

01:31:50.000 That's how it has to be.

01:31:52.000 It has to be grimy.

01:31:54.000 That's how you want it, right?

01:31:55.000 It can't be in any way ABC after school specialified.

01:31:59.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:32:00.000 It can't be cleaned up through a filter.

01:32:04.000 It has to be good, too.

01:32:06.000 It has to be good narrative.

01:32:09.000 It has to be set up.

01:32:10.000 The scenes have to be set up.

01:32:11.000 Because it's very hard to take an insane career of nine of the best MCs to get together under one mastermind with all these genius talents.

01:32:22.000 And they form this movement, and you're going to condense that to two hours?

01:32:26.000 Yeah.

01:32:27.000 See, that was one of his beats right there.

01:32:29.000 He was like, yo, Ray, yo, yo, blah, blah, blah, yo, you know what I mean?

01:32:33.000 But I think it could be done.

01:32:34.000 That's what I said.

01:32:35.000 I said, yo, look, come on now.

01:32:37.000 I said, people do it all the time.

01:32:39.000 I said, yo, look at Prime Example, look at N.W.A. I thought N.W.A. movie was dope.

01:32:44.000 You know what I mean?

01:32:44.000 Straight out of Compton.

01:32:45.000 I thought they did a good job, but that was Dre and Cube and, you know, I'm sure you're always going to have somebody around that be like, yo, no, that ain't it.

01:32:56.000 But it was so realistic that when I seen ours, it was like, all right, I get it.

01:33:01.000 You know, Rizzi even said to y'all, you know, this is more for the younger generation to kind of gravitate to.

01:33:07.000 And once everybody loved it, they loved it.

01:33:10.000 So it was like, okay, y'all love it.

01:33:13.000 We love y'all for loving it.

01:33:15.000 It's great.

01:33:16.000 But hear me out.

01:33:18.000 Opening of the movie, Rikers.

01:33:21.000 Opening of the movie, you guys show up at Rikers to do the concert.

01:33:25.000 We're all daddy bastards inside.

01:33:27.000 That's the opening of the movie.

01:33:29.000 That's the opening of the movie.

01:33:31.000 You want all the real gritty.

01:33:32.000 You want the gritty.

01:33:33.000 But that should get everybody on the hook right away.

01:33:37.000 And then you bring them back to the beginning.

01:33:40.000 Right after that.

01:33:41.000 You know, you put the year, whatever it was.

01:33:44.000 And that's how you make movies.

01:33:45.000 You pick all the greatest moments.

01:33:47.000 Yes.

01:33:48.000 And then you start showing and threading.

01:33:50.000 Right.

01:33:51.000 Yes.

01:33:51.000 That's a no-brainer for a Wu-Tang movie.

01:33:53.000 You start with Rikers.

01:33:55.000 You start with Rikers, which is, what year was that?

01:33:58.000 95?

01:33:59.000 What year was that?

01:34:00.000 When did...

01:34:01.000 What year was the Old Dirty Bastard and Rikers concert with Wu-Tang?

01:34:05.000 Yeah, I was about to say, look up that.

01:34:06.000 And what year did you guys start?

01:34:07.000 What was the very first year?

01:34:09.000 We started in late 92. So you start the movie with Rikers and then you bring it back to 92. Back to 92. That's what it is.

01:34:20.000 That's what it is.

01:34:21.000 I mean, just think about the incredible...

01:34:25.000 Amount of talent, not just, not just rapidly.

01:34:29.000 JZA is like a world champion caliber chess player.

01:34:32.000 99, 2000 or so?

01:34:34.000 99, 2000?

01:34:36.000 Yeah, I got an interview, RZA talking about it.

01:34:40.000 And doesn't JZA have some degree in physics?

01:34:42.000 Smart motherfucker, man.

01:34:43.000 Doesn't he have some crazy degree?

01:34:46.000 Smart.

01:34:46.000 He's like a...

01:34:47.000 Look that up, please.

01:34:48.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:34:49.000 So, you just, that alone in the movies, like, come on, this is real?

01:34:54.000 Yeah, this is something people was looking forward to looking at.

01:34:57.000 Yeah, think of a movie like that.

01:34:59.000 Think of a movie that starts up with the gates opening and you guys going in, put all your belongings in the basket, the whole shit, getting frisked, checking everybody down, the guy reading you the rules, the warden telling you, do not go into the crowd, do not do that.

01:35:14.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:35:15.000 Okay, cool, cool, cool.

01:35:16.000 Yeah, we got you.

01:35:16.000 Yeah.

01:35:17.000 Wow.

01:35:18.000 Think about it.

01:35:19.000 That's the beginning of the movie.

01:35:21.000 That's an incredible opening for a movie.

01:35:24.000 And it really happened.

01:35:25.000 This isn't bullshit.

01:35:27.000 This isn't a bunch of dorks sitting around a table coming up with some nonsense.

01:35:31.000 This is some shit that you lived through.

01:35:33.000 That would be an incredible opening for a movie.

01:35:35.000 And it's just so incredible even more on how we connected because...

01:35:42.000 Like I said, everybody come from almost the same poverty bullshit, but everybody had different philosophies on how they felt their lives was going into.

01:35:54.000 You know, I tell people all the time, you know, my neighborhood was about making money.

01:36:02.000 You know, Ghost Neighborhood was about taking money, you know what I mean?

01:36:06.000 Taking shit from you, you know?

01:36:10.000 GZA being one of the MCs that could have been down with the Juice Crew.

01:36:14.000 You know who the fuck the Juice Crew is.

01:36:17.000 He turned it down.

01:36:18.000 It's like they was the hottest shit back then.

01:36:20.000 Master Ace, Biz, Kane, Cool G-Rap.

01:36:24.000 All these dope MCs, they asked him, yo, we want you to come and get down with us.

01:36:29.000 He's like, nah, you know what, nah.

01:36:31.000 All these things I remember yesterday.

01:36:34.000 You know what, you turned down the Juice Crew?

01:36:36.000 He was like, I love the Juice Crew, but I just was in this chamber right here.

01:36:42.000 You know, us with Old Dirty, like, yo, you know, Old Dirty always wanted to be like Biz, Biz Markie.

01:36:49.000 He had that personality, that charisma, that energy.

01:36:53.000 So like you said, these are the things that I wanted to see.

01:36:56.000 Each individual, like...

01:36:58.000 You know, and like I said, you know, shout out Hulu, man, for doing a great job.

01:37:03.000 But I do agree, like you, we need another movie where it really defines who we are.

01:37:11.000 Yeah.

01:37:11.000 You know?

01:37:13.000 Yeah.

01:37:15.000 That was his side of how he wanted to tell it.

01:37:19.000 It's a great story.

01:37:21.000 It's fine.

01:37:22.000 The Hulu thing's fine.

01:37:23.000 But I think there's something missing.

01:37:26.000 And I think the something missing is a movie.

01:37:28.000 It's got to be a movie.

01:37:30.000 It's got to be a big screen, big thing.

01:37:32.000 And it could be done, man.

01:37:34.000 Y'all heard it first, man.

01:37:34.000 Y'all heard it first.

01:37:35.000 I ain't have to argue with my brothers about it.

01:37:38.000 I mean, just imagine when ODB does Baby, I Got Your Money.

01:37:44.000 Oh my God.

01:37:45.000 Come on.

01:37:46.000 Imagine that, and that becomes this massive hit.

01:37:49.000 Come on.

01:37:50.000 Massive hit.

01:37:51.000 You know he had the most hits out of all of us, right?

01:37:54.000 He was so fucking talented, man.

01:37:57.000 And so real.

01:37:58.000 Remember when he was on MTV and they started talking about like, what are you gonna give?

01:38:02.000 Who are you gonna give your money?

01:38:03.000 He's like, I gave my money to nobody.

01:38:05.000 He was like, yo, you gonna give back?

01:38:07.000 He was like, no.

01:38:09.000 Yo, yeah, I remember that shit.

01:38:11.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:38:12.000 And everybody was crying.

01:38:14.000 Everybody loved the moment.

01:38:15.000 Because it was so real.

01:38:16.000 It wasn't like, well, I think it's really important that we establish some sort of a community fund.

01:38:21.000 Shut the fuck up.

01:38:22.000 He was just having fun.

01:38:24.000 You know what I mean?

01:38:24.000 But, you know, we always gave back in our own ways.

01:38:27.000 Of course.

01:38:28.000 Well, by existing, you give back.

01:38:30.000 By existing, you inspire others.

01:38:33.000 By existing, how many rap careers, how many hip-hop careers were inspired by Wu-Tang Clan and all the members?

01:38:41.000 Countless.

01:38:42.000 Countless.

01:38:43.000 So many.

01:38:44.000 I say that we definitely had a piece of watching the new generation grow and kind of build their arc the way we built ours.

01:38:58.000 That's important to reflect on that.

01:39:03.000 Back then, like you said, nobody wasn't giving motherfuckers this kind of money.

01:39:07.000 We was the first group that ever had a million dollar video.

01:39:11.000 Wow.

01:39:13.000 I remember that day, me and RZA was coming up with the storyboard.

01:39:17.000 What video was that?

01:39:19.000 Triumph.

01:39:20.000 Wow.

01:39:21.000 We did the Triumph shit.

01:39:22.000 It was like, we came up with all this shit.

01:39:23.000 It was like, yo, this shit's gonna cost a million dollars.

01:39:25.000 We're like, what the fuck?

01:39:26.000 It's a million dollars.

01:39:28.000 Like, do it.

01:39:29.000 You know, and at that time, you know.

01:39:31.000 Is this it?

01:39:32.000 Oh, let me hear this.

01:39:32.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:39:33.000 This is what my guy Brett Ratner See the bees coming through and shit Information This just ends.

01:39:51.000 Police are reporting that there's a man on top of a skyscraper ready to jump.

01:39:56.000 I'm told that he is possibly old dirty.

01:39:59.000 A member of the Wu-Tang Clan.

01:40:01.000 The police suspect that there could be some connection between this old dirty man and the killer beast.

01:40:08.000 Old dirty man.

01:40:09.000 Say that now!

01:40:10.000 I'm atomically...

01:40:19.000 Socrates, philosophies, and hypotheses.

01:40:21.000 Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries.

01:40:24.000 Lyrically perform armed robbery.

01:40:26.000 Flee with the lottery.

01:40:27.000 Possibly they spotted me.

01:40:28.000 Battles, guards, shogun.

01:40:30.000 Exposure when my bin hits.

01:40:31.000 Tremendous.

01:40:32.000 Ultraviolet shine blind forensics.

01:40:34.000 High in spec view through the future.

01:40:35.000 See millennium.

01:40:36.000 Killer beast sold 50 gold, 60 platinum.

01:40:39.000 Shackling the masses with drastic rap tactics.

01:40:42.000 Graphic displays melt the steel like blacksmiths.

01:40:44.000 Jump, jump, jump. jump.

01:41:14.000 takes me back to the good old days of the clan Is it weird looking back now?

01:41:21.000 Does it feel almost surreal that you guys did it?

01:41:23.000 A little bit to me, yeah.

01:41:25.000 It has to.

01:41:26.000 Yeah, to me for sure.

01:41:28.000 I mean, you know, I always believed in my group, man.

01:41:31.000 I mean, these guys is, like you said, very talented, very talented.

01:41:36.000 Sometimes we don't know our power when we come together, but we might be the only group that stuck together so long, you know, because we all feed off each other every time.

01:41:47.000 So to be able to reflect back when we was in our prom...

01:41:52.000 It was like we still didn't even give our best.

01:41:55.000 It was almost like, okay, yeah, we're going to do it because we have to.

01:41:59.000 Not do it because we're all in a happy vibe, a happy moment.

01:42:05.000 A lot of times we make great things happen out of nothing, you know, under pressure.

01:42:10.000 Might have been turbulence in the room, might have been an argument that happened that day, but we still managed to come out with something great out of that whole time of that moment.

01:42:21.000 That's what's incredible, is that through all the disputes, you guys still stay together.

01:42:26.000 Because there's no way you're gonna have nine dudes and not have disputes.

01:42:30.000 Exactly.

01:42:31.000 Especially nine alphas, nine killers.

01:42:33.000 It's hard, man.

01:42:34.000 It's hard because, you know, everybody has an opinion.

01:42:38.000 And you want to respect everybody's opinion, you know.

01:42:42.000 But it made me think about sports and it made me think about how coaches and people, you know, outside of the group are so important.

01:42:51.000 See, how we were designed, we...

01:42:56.000 We huddled up, but we never really had people around us kind of like push the narrative more to show us our true power.

01:43:04.000 So we made a lot of mistakes, you know, of being great, but still handling the business a little bit different from if we had some...

01:43:15.000 Some coaches.

01:43:16.000 Some guidance.

01:43:17.000 Some guidance.

01:43:18.000 The problem was, back then, no one knew what was going on.

01:43:22.000 Nobody knew.

01:43:22.000 Because it was so fresh.

01:43:23.000 It was so new.

01:43:25.000 The whole genre had only existed for six or seven years.

01:43:28.000 So it was emerging, and it was chaotic, and it was so exciting, but there wasn't a lot of experts in how to manage it.

01:43:38.000 It's like, today, a young artist could come to a guy like you.

01:43:43.000 And say, hey, what should I do?

01:43:45.000 Help me out.

01:43:47.000 What's the path that you think that I should take?

01:43:50.000 And you could give them real advice.

01:43:52.000 Where back then, who knew?

01:43:54.000 Who knew Wu-Tang was going to work?

01:43:56.000 They would have told you that's not going to work.

01:43:57.000 You can't get nine dudes.

01:43:59.000 That's crazy.

01:44:00.000 How are you doing that?

01:44:01.000 But it worked.

01:44:02.000 It didn't just work.

01:44:03.000 It accelerated everybody.

01:44:06.000 It amplified all the voices.

01:44:07.000 That's what was so crazy about it.

01:44:10.000 It didn't just work.

01:44:11.000 It worked better than being by yourself.

01:44:13.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:44:14.000 I tell people all the time, the Klan, I think we all got better based on us as a collective.

01:44:21.000 100%.

01:44:22.000 Has to.

01:44:23.000 Nobody couldn't have did it by themselves and be great.

01:44:26.000 Iron sharpens iron.

01:44:27.000 That's right.

01:44:29.000 Steel sharpens steel.

01:44:30.000 Yeah, you guys had so many killers together, there's no way it couldn't be great.

01:44:35.000 That's what's incredible.

01:44:36.000 It's like, it's so hard for people to do that.

01:44:40.000 That's why it's never been done before, which is amazing.

01:44:42.000 If you think about the history of hip-hop, how many artists have come up and not one group has come together and made like a, oh, they're just like Wu-Tang.

01:44:52.000 Not one.

01:44:53.000 Not one.

01:44:54.000 Yeah, even when it comes to, you know, sales and, you know, each one of us was blessed to be able to go platinum and gold.

01:45:01.000 But we talk about that.

01:45:02.000 You know, sometimes when we all are together, we laugh and we say, damn, you know, no other groups did what we did, like, come with guys that...

01:45:12.000 Everybody in the group went gold and platinum and this and that.

01:45:15.000 I couldn't name one person.

01:45:17.000 They was like, yo, name one person.

01:45:18.000 Name one group that did what we did at that level back then.

01:45:22.000 I couldn't name it, you know what I mean?

01:45:25.000 Well, the Kettle Boys branched out.

01:45:27.000 Scarface obviously went on to have a massive career.

01:45:30.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:45:31.000 Did you see his little Tiny Desk performance?

01:45:33.000 Oh, yeah.

01:45:34.000 Phenomenal.

01:45:34.000 Fucking incredible.

01:45:36.000 That's one of my greatest friends too, man.

01:45:38.000 And so different than anything else.

01:45:41.000 Like the way he did it, like he adapted the lyrics to the environment.

01:45:46.000 Yeah.

01:45:47.000 Oh, it was incredible.

01:45:48.000 Incredible.

01:45:49.000 Scarface is a real guy too, man.

01:45:52.000 One of the all-timers.

01:45:53.000 One of the all-time greats.

01:45:55.000 All-time greats.

01:45:56.000 Have you had him come to your show yet?

01:45:57.000 I haven't yet.

01:45:58.000 No, I'd love to have him on.

01:45:59.000 I love that dude.

01:45:59.000 I've had Willie on.

01:46:00.000 I think that there's so many amazing talents that came out of that 90s hip-hop era that for a young guy coming up...

01:46:10.000 Someone who's interested in a career in it now, it's imperative that you go back.

01:46:15.000 Go back.

01:46:16.000 You have to.

01:46:17.000 You have to.

01:46:17.000 You've got to explore the classics.

01:46:20.000 You've got to see what started this whole thing.

01:46:23.000 And you've got to put yourself in this mindset like...

01:46:26.000 It's hard to imagine my experience of it, because you're not going to be able to have it.

01:46:31.000 It's always been around.

01:46:32.000 But for me, when it came around, it was this totally new thing.

01:46:37.000 Totally new sound.

01:46:38.000 Totally new avenue of music that existed.

01:46:42.000 And everybody was like, wow!

01:46:44.000 And all the young people were excited.

01:46:46.000 Everybody was excited.

01:46:47.000 Like, this is crazy!

01:46:49.000 This is so different than everything else.

01:46:52.000 So for the people that are making a career in it now, I know there's a tendency to think you're the fucking man and everything else sucks.

01:47:01.000 I'm telling you, you've got to abandon that.

01:47:04.000 Abandon that thinking!

01:47:05.000 Go back and educate yourself, because it's free.

01:47:09.000 Just get on YouTube, get on Spotify, educate yourself.

01:47:13.000 There's so much classic shit from the 90s that you're missing.

01:47:18.000 And all we were doing really was just, like you said, just expression, you know?

01:47:23.000 Being in the studio, smoking a lot of weed, you know?

01:47:27.000 And a lot of times when we were smoking and just vibing, it's like we were mentioning things that...

01:47:34.000 You know, like today, like prime example, you know, I own a cannabis business in Newark called Hash Story.

01:47:41.000 You know what I mean?

01:47:41.000 See you representing us.

01:47:43.000 You know, we said in rhymes, like, can it be also simple?

01:47:47.000 Yo, I want to have me a fat yacht and enough land to go and plant my own sass crops.

01:47:52.000 But for now, it was just a big dream.

01:47:54.000 You know, so we kind of like spoke things into existence that...

01:47:58.000 At the end of the day, like, you know, now as I sit here and I'm an owner of a cannabis business, I'm like, wow, we was talking about things.

01:48:08.000 Yo, my first joint and it went gold.

01:48:10.000 I put it on my mother's, you know, my mother's living room wall.

01:48:13.000 You know, we did that.

01:48:15.000 So we were kind of like saying things that meant so much to us back then, but still dreaming of it being a reality.

01:48:24.000 The next thing you know, it happens.

01:48:26.000 You know, like how you said, you know, JZA being so intelligent and talking about science and, you know, meth, you know, talking about certain things.

01:48:37.000 And, you know, now today he's in the movie world and RZA's a director.

01:48:42.000 And, you know, these are the things that were going through our minds as we were just smoking and listening to production.

01:48:49.000 And just saying, yo, what the right next?

01:48:52.000 Where do we want to go, you know?

01:48:54.000 And I think that that is important as an artist, is to dream and be creative.

01:49:00.000 Don't sit in one box.

01:49:02.000 Like, that's the shit that just be driving me crazy a lot.

01:49:05.000 With hip-hop today, it's like, yo, it's just sounding too fucking repetitious.

01:49:10.000 Like, let's make it bigger.

01:49:12.000 Let's...

01:49:13.000 Let's take it over here, over here, over here.

01:49:16.000 But sometimes it's just sitting in one fucking box where it's like, yo, come on.

01:49:21.000 It's not just that.

01:49:23.000 It's about opening up the doors for everybody to be able to see so many sides.

01:49:30.000 Like, now it just seems like the hip-hop shit is just being controlled by one person that's saying, yo, we want y'all to stay right there.

01:49:39.000 We want you to talk ignorant.

01:49:41.000 We want you to not grow.

01:49:43.000 We want you to just...

01:49:44.000 Whatever they think is gonna sell.

01:49:47.000 Why is that the case?

01:49:48.000 I don't get it.

01:49:49.000 The same reason why they were trying to take the RZA and change him and turn him into something he's not.

01:49:53.000 People always do that.

01:49:55.000 They do that in comedy.

01:49:56.000 They do that in podcasting.

01:49:58.000 They do that in music.

01:49:59.000 There's always some executive that thinks they know better and they're gonna mold you and shape you and change you and this is what we're gonna do.

01:50:05.000 We're gonna hire an image team.

01:50:07.000 It's all just bullshit.

01:50:09.000 It's non-artists interfering with art.

01:50:12.000 That's what it is.

01:50:14.000 It's when you have middlemen.

01:50:16.000 You have these people that profit off of your talent, and they think they're gonna steer it in a way that's gonna be the most profitable.

01:50:22.000 They don't give a fuck if you're earnestly and honestly expressing yourself.

01:50:26.000 That doesn't mean anything to them.

01:50:27.000 They just want you to stay in that box, because that's the box they're selling.

01:50:32.000 And once it sells once, they don't want you to change it up.

01:50:35.000 Remember when Ice-T started a fucking heavy metal band?

01:50:38.000 Oh my god, yeah.

01:50:39.000 Ice-T, who played a cop on TV for like fucking 30 years, he had a song called Cop Killer!

01:50:45.000 Body count.

01:50:46.000 And everybody wanted him to be the rapper.

01:50:48.000 And Ice-T was like, I'm gonna do a hardcore album.

01:50:51.000 I was like, what?

01:50:52.000 I'm a motherfuckin' cop kill!

01:50:54.000 It's like, what is this?

01:50:55.000 What is this?

01:50:56.000 This is crazy!

01:50:57.000 But it's like, he just didn't listen.

01:50:59.000 He's like, I don't give a fuck what you say.

01:51:01.000 I'm gonna do what I want to do.

01:51:03.000 This is what I want to do now.

01:51:04.000 And you have to give an artist that ability to do that.

01:51:07.000 They have to be able to change it up anytime they want.

01:51:10.000 Whatever, because whatever got them to the dance is going to keep them dancing.

01:51:14.000 And they might dance to the beat of a different song, but it's going to be the same person, that same creative force that created whatever you liked in the beginning.

01:51:23.000 Well, you probably like this new direction they're going to go into because it's going to be just as good.

01:51:29.000 You were saying you like Billy Joel.

01:51:30.000 We both like Cool G Rap.

01:51:32.000 It's very different.

01:51:33.000 You wouldn't want to see the two of them at a concert together.

01:51:35.000 But that's what you have to give room for an artist.

01:51:39.000 And these executives and these people that are profiting off of art without being creative, their input's always terrible.

01:51:47.000 It's always terrible because they don't have a vision.

01:51:49.000 They don't really, unless you're like a Rick Rubin, like one of those cats that's just like super eccentric, weirdo, genius dude who just knows what he likes and go, hold on, hold on.

01:51:59.000 Do that again.

01:52:00.000 Stop that.

01:52:01.000 Stop, stop, stop.

01:52:01.000 Do it again.

01:52:02.000 Do it again.

01:52:02.000 Do it that way.

01:52:03.000 Okay, can you make it echo?

01:52:04.000 Do it.

01:52:05.000 Do it.

01:52:05.000 Give me an echo.

01:52:06.000 But he's working with you because he sees something.

01:52:08.000 Right, right, right.

01:52:09.000 He's barefoot and shit and fucking doing yoga.

01:52:12.000 One of the geniuses.

01:52:14.000 Super weirdo.

01:52:14.000 A Scott Storch type character.

01:52:17.000 These guys be great in their own way though.

01:52:20.000 They're artists though.

01:52:21.000 It's like, that's different.

01:52:22.000 But when you get these suits and the suits get involved and they know that, oh, we made, you know, Raekwon sold a million and seven hundred thousand CDs doing it like this.

01:52:34.000 So this is what we want from this one too.

01:52:36.000 We want it to be the exact same way.

01:52:38.000 We want to do it like that.

01:52:39.000 Do it like that again.

01:52:40.000 Like, oh, no, no, what's this new thing you're doing?

01:52:42.000 What's this new thing where you're talking about discipline?

01:52:45.000 No, no, no.

01:52:47.000 But that's one of the most important things about hip-hop, too, is songs inspire people to change their lives.

01:52:54.000 Like Gangstar's song Discipline.

01:52:56.000 That song inspires you to have discipline.

01:53:00.000 It's a great fucking song with great lyrics.

01:53:02.000 Like I said, this shit became knowledge to us, man.

01:53:07.000 You know, that's what I miss about hip-hop is the knowledge factor, you know, raising our kids to be smarter and, you know, not hiding anything from them.

01:53:19.000 Like you said, once you put that warning stick on there, don't look at it, they're gonna look at it anyway, so why not let them see for what it is and then say, yo, look, you can make these choices, but you go that way, you know what you're getting.

01:53:33.000 You go this way, you know what you're getting.

01:53:34.000 I think all it takes is someone today to do what you guys were doing and blow up.

01:53:40.000 And then everybody would want to do it that way.

01:53:42.000 If someone today became this genius lyricist who was pointing out things in society and became a huge artist, But you think that music is still, you think the radio will play it?

01:53:53.000 I don't think the radio means jack shit anymore.

01:53:55.000 I think what means something now is people sharing it.

01:53:58.000 That's what means something.

01:53:59.000 How do they get it out there, though?

01:54:01.000 Put it on Spotify, put it on SoundCloud, put it on YouTube.

01:54:04.000 Someone sees it, someone hears it, you send it to somebody, they send it to ten people, and then it goes viral.

01:54:10.000 That's what it's all about now.

01:54:11.000 I think it's just be undeniable.

01:54:13.000 Be undeniable.

01:54:14.000 Have some shit where you listen to it and you go, oh!

01:54:17.000 Be confident.

01:54:18.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:54:18.000 And you have your friends like, you gotta listen to this, listen to this, listen to this, listen to the first lines, first lines.

01:54:22.000 Yeah.

01:54:23.000 Yeah, listen to that shit.

01:54:24.000 Oh my God.

01:54:24.000 That's how we always sold it anyway.

01:54:26.000 Oh my God.

01:54:27.000 Yeah, come out of the gate with a fucking haymaker.

01:54:30.000 Nah.

01:54:30.000 Boom!

01:54:30.000 This is what we do though, you know?

01:54:32.000 Yeah.

01:54:33.000 See, damn, you talking like how I feel about my album I'm about to drop.

01:54:36.000 When is it coming out?

01:54:37.000 I feel that way.

01:54:38.000 Well, you know shit, I just, I just been working on this documentary, right, for the Purple Team.

01:54:43.000 Let me just be honest with you, take you back.

01:54:46.000 I've been working on, you know, Only Built For Cuban Links is my What's Going On album, my Thriller album that I made 30 years ago.

01:54:56.000 This year, 2025, would be 30 years.

01:54:58.000 So what we done was we went back and decided to do a documentary about it, a real life film.

01:55:05.000 So it's called The Purple Tape Files, because remind you, Only Built For Cuban Links was the name of the album.

01:55:11.000 But being that I came with it as a cassette, Everybody started to call this album The Purple Tate.

01:55:18.000 So now, you know, we came back and we decided to do, you know, me and my team from my camp.

01:55:25.000 You know, the clan, of course, the clan.

01:55:27.000 But this is something that was my intellectual property that I said, yo, you know what?

01:55:33.000 Me and my guy sat down.

01:55:34.000 My team sat down and said, yo, you need to do a documentary about this album because you can make 50 albums.

01:55:40.000 People are still going to talk about Only Built For Cuban Link.

01:55:44.000 So I said, damn, you know what?

01:55:46.000 You're right.

01:55:46.000 So what I did was I said, you know what?

01:55:50.000 Let me invest in it and kind of tell the story of what helped us inspire that album, what helped us be a part of the culture, and how it still allows me to still exist today.

01:56:03.000 Like, if you see a lot of these guys today in the game, they still win Cuban Link chains.

01:56:07.000 You know what I mean?

01:56:08.000 So who would have ever thought that I'm calling my album Only Built For Cuban Link niggas?

01:56:13.000 Now everybody in their mother is wearing Cuban link chains today, 30 years later.

01:56:19.000 So you know that been something that I've been working on and believe it or not we've been working on it for 10 years.

01:56:24.000 So I got over 50 influential people that was in my life that was affected by that album.

01:56:34.000 To be a part of this documentary.

01:56:37.000 So now, this is all in the making.

01:56:39.000 We didn't actually go out there and start pitching it yet.

01:56:42.000 We're finally getting ready to do it right now as we speak.

01:56:45.000 As we speak.

01:56:47.000 Once the New Year kick in and all that, we will be ready to go out there and position ourselves to go do a deal with a network with this project.

01:56:56.000 It's going to be ill.

01:56:57.000 It's a great idea.

01:56:58.000 You know what I mean?

01:56:59.000 So my thing is to talk about it in a way to where the way we made the album, all the experiences, all the things that we went through, and eventually that would wind up becoming a movie later on because the storyboard of how I talk about it It's gonna blow people's minds because it's like, damn, this is what you was going through?

01:57:19.000 This is how your mindset was?

01:57:21.000 Because I just want people to know that that album was made because I love hip-hop, man, and, you know, we were in a position to make something golden that, at that time, I was already thinking cinematic.

01:57:37.000 I was already in my Martin Scorsese mindset because when I came into Klan, I was like, yo, I don't do all the karate shit.

01:57:44.000 I don't know how to rhyme like that.

01:57:45.000 I don't even know about drugs and hustlers and trying to get from here to there and turn my life around for the positive, you know?

01:57:54.000 So we talk about this in a documentary and we go through some of the songs and like I said, you know, I got some of my guys that, you know, we had, you know, we had conflictions with some artists out there like Biggie back then.

01:58:11.000 Everybody thought we had a beef and It becomes interesting, but the bottom line is that's what I've been working on alongside with working on some other music.

01:58:22.000 So I just said, yo, let me get this done the right way first, and then I'm going to drop some new music.

01:58:29.000 So I got definitely a new album getting ready to come out.

01:58:32.000 And when is that going to come out, you think?

01:58:33.000 The new album, I'd say probably like between second quarter right now.

01:58:38.000 Yeah, and I never even mentioned the name of the album, but I'll mention it.

01:58:42.000 On your show, the name of the album is going to be called The Emperor's New Clothes.

01:58:48.000 You ever heard that Dutch folk tale, The Emperor's New Clothes?

01:58:50.000 Yeah, The Emperor Wears No Clothes.

01:58:52.000 Yeah, so that's going to be the name of it because I feel like the status quo today, everybody follows bullshit.

01:59:00.000 Nobody wants to be genuine no more.

01:59:01.000 Nobody wants to call out shit that makes sense.

01:59:04.000 It's like, oh, if you believe it, oh, I'm supposed to believe it.

01:59:07.000 I'm supposed to believe nothing that don't feel like what it's supposed to be to me.

01:59:12.000 Goes back to like you said, and I'm listening to everything you're saying about you have to do it from this way.

01:59:17.000 Fuck radio.

01:59:17.000 Fuck that.

01:59:19.000 Whatever is going to stop you from being you.

01:59:22.000 You know what I mean?

01:59:23.000 So this is the same mindset that I'm thinking with my hip hop, my new album that's coming.

01:59:28.000 Like, yo, I'm not going to let you tell me that this is not what people still love.

01:59:33.000 You know what I mean?

01:59:34.000 I don't care.

01:59:34.000 I'm just I know what I know from coming up as a kid who loved hip hop and what inspired me.

01:59:42.000 I'm going to have a ball this year, man.

01:59:44.000 I got a lot of great things that I want to give the world.

01:59:47.000 But yeah, that's going to be the name of my new album.

01:59:49.000 People still love it.

01:59:50.000 And I'm telling you, these young kids that I have at the Comedy Mothership, when I play them 1990s hip-hop, they go, oh!

01:59:56.000 They just don't know yet.

01:59:58.000 Yeah.

01:59:59.000 And we can't fault them because they wasn't alive probably at that time.

01:59:59.000 They just don't know.

02:00:02.000 Also, they got so much shit coming their way.

02:00:04.000 They're getting inundated by all these new artists and all these new TikToks.

02:00:04.000 Exactly.

02:00:07.000 There's so much shit going on.

02:00:09.000 There's so much shit going on.

02:00:10.000 There's so much going on.

02:00:12.000 But, you know, I always say that it's always a lane for people that love music.

02:00:18.000 You know what I mean?

02:00:18.000 I don't care.

02:00:19.000 It's like you could be 50. You know, today I'm sitting here as a 55-year-old man that still have that kid in him to love music.

02:00:27.000 What helped me be who I am today.

02:00:32.000 I'm still at my best when it comes to making music.

02:00:36.000 Today, The Chef is more of an architect artist now.

02:00:42.000 I don't consider myself a gangster rapper or funny rapper.

02:00:46.000 I'm an architect rapper.

02:00:49.000 Because I like to reflect on things about growth and development.

02:00:54.000 When people hear this album, they're going to be like, damn, he still fucking got it.

02:01:00.000 I tell people all the time, don't ever think we're going to lose that shit.

02:01:03.000 That's like sitting here saying Mike Tyson can't fight.

02:01:06.000 When you know at the end of the day, he ain't lose a fucking bit.

02:01:11.000 When it comes to how he feels that passion for boxing or whatever, I feel the same way with my music.

02:01:18.000 So get ready.

02:01:19.000 But like I said, the name of the album is called The Emperor's New Clothes.

02:01:24.000 Check for that shit.

02:01:24.000 I'm ready.

02:01:25.000 I'm ready.

02:01:26.000 Listen, brother, thank you very much for being here.

02:01:28.000 It was a real honor.

02:01:29.000 Of course.

02:01:29.000 A real pleasure.

02:01:30.000 You're my god, man.

02:01:31.000 And thank you for everything you guys have done over the years.

02:01:34.000 I've been endlessly entertained by Wu-Tang Clan for a long fucking time.

02:01:38.000 There you go.

02:01:39.000 And I hope somebody listens to this and makes that fucking movie.

02:01:42.000 Make that movie.

02:01:43.000 Well, we gonna make it happen.

02:01:45.000 Do it the right way.

02:01:46.000 We gonna figure it out.

02:01:47.000 I wish I made movies.

02:01:48.000 I wish I was a movie maker.

02:01:49.000 I would make it that way.

02:01:51.000 I would open up with that fucking Riker scene.

02:01:53.000 Listen, Joe, it's never too late for us to do what the fuck we want to do.

02:01:57.000 Never too late.

02:01:58.000 Never too late.

02:01:59.000 Thank you, sir.

02:02:00.000 Love you.

02:02:00.000 Love you too.

02:02:01.000 Thank you very much.

02:02:01.000 Appreciate it.

The Joe Rogan Experience - January 01, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2250 - Raekwon

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