The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2254 - Mel Gibson

00:00:00.000 the Joe Rogan experience train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day all right we're rolling What's cracking?

00:00:14.000 Oh, man.

00:00:15.000 My back just now.

00:00:16.000 It's just fantastic.

00:00:18.000 What is going on with your back?

00:00:20.000 You've had back issues in the past, right?

00:00:22.000 We talked about that the last time you came out.

00:00:24.000 Well, I was born scoliotic, you know?

00:00:26.000 Yeah.

00:00:26.000 So it's like, I just bought my own pen along so I could click the shit.

00:00:33.000 Here, take all devices away from me.

00:00:36.000 I can't believe you remember.

00:00:41.000 You remember clicking on the pen?

00:00:42.000 That's hilarious.

00:00:43.000 Oh, yeah.

00:00:43.000 I'm a fidget, you know, so I... Let me take everything off.

00:00:50.000 It's not good.

00:00:50.000 Oh, yeah.

00:00:52.000 Born slightly scoliotic. 0.98

00:00:54.000 And then, of course, I banged myself up over the years.

00:00:56.000 Of course.

00:00:58.000 Do they do anything other than surgery for people with scoliosis?

00:01:02.000 They do, because I don't want to do surgery.

00:01:05.000 Once you start opening stuff up and fooling with it, there's no going back.

00:01:09.000 Especially the back.

00:01:10.000 Yeah.

00:01:10.000 Back's a rough...

00:01:11.000 I've never met anybody that had, like, fusions or anything where it turned out good.

00:01:15.000 No.

00:01:16.000 And like Hippocrates, you know, the father of medicine, he said, in any ailment, look first to the spine.

00:01:22.000 And it was like, he's kind of right.

00:01:25.000 It emanates from the core.

00:01:27.000 Well, if your back is fucked up, everything's fucked up.

00:01:30.000 Yeah.

00:01:30.000 You know, no matter how strong your arms and legs are, if your back is fucked up, you're in trouble.

00:01:34.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:01:35.000 Your brain.

00:01:35.000 Everything.

00:01:36.000 Everything goes to hell.

00:01:37.000 Well, you're in pain all the time.

00:01:38.000 Yeah.

00:01:39.000 People with back problems, like, they can't think straight because you're always like, ugh.

00:01:43.000 You know, it's always...

00:01:44.000 There's a gift to not thinking straight.

00:01:47.000 Tell me.

00:01:48.000 Tell me more.

00:01:49.000 I want to know.

00:01:49.000 Well, it actually takes you down some pretty weird paths, you know.

00:01:54.000 If you're happy all the time, I don't know.

00:01:58.000 You don't have to strive to find thoughts to make yourself happy.

00:02:02.000 Right.

00:02:03.000 So it's like, it's a good predisposition, I think.

00:02:09.000 I agree to that.

00:02:10.000 Yeah, I think being happy all the time is a...

00:02:14.000 It's kind of an unlikely scenario.

00:02:16.000 No, nobody is.

00:02:17.000 Yeah.

00:02:18.000 No.

00:02:18.000 But we all want it.

00:02:19.000 You notice we all yearn for it.

00:02:21.000 That's the only thing we all want, right?

00:02:23.000 Right.

00:02:23.000 Just happiness?

00:02:25.000 Little peace?

00:02:26.000 Well, it's also we're shown it, like, in, you know, television, movies.

00:02:32.000 Sure.

00:02:32.000 We're shown happiness as this goal.

00:02:34.000 Like, seek happiness.

00:02:36.000 Sure.

00:02:36.000 Should be happy.

00:02:37.000 All the time.

00:02:38.000 Happy.

00:02:39.000 Should never be upset.

00:02:40.000 Yeah.

00:02:41.000 Well.

00:02:41.000 It's not realistic.

00:02:43.000 It's completely unrealistic.

00:02:44.000 However, it's nice to have those little journeys through art where you can actually explore those things.

00:02:49.000 You can explore your ids.

00:02:52.000 You can explore happiness.

00:02:54.000 And so you can experience the opposite.

00:02:57.000 I look at situations around me and I generally feel pretty grateful from what some people go through.

00:03:05.000 I'm grateful.

00:03:06.000 And everybody's got their crap, you know.

00:03:09.000 But like this morning, for example.

00:03:12.000 I would be surprised if my home is still there.

00:03:15.000 Yeah, we were just talking about that.

00:03:17.000 The Palisades is on fire.

00:03:19.000 Yeah.

00:03:20.000 My friend Tom, Tom Segura, his house is gone.

00:03:22.000 Yeah.

00:03:23.000 Where he used to live.

00:03:24.000 He sold it, luckily.

00:03:25.000 Yeah, I have a son.

00:03:26.000 He's in a sort of volunteer fire brigade, Milo.

00:03:29.000 I call him the mayor of Malibu.

00:03:31.000 And he's running around.

00:03:33.000 I asked him, how's things looking there, Milo?

00:03:34.000 He says, not good, pops.

00:03:35.000 He says, your neighborhood.

00:03:37.000 And he sent me a video of my neighborhood.

00:03:40.000 And it's...

00:03:40.000 In flames, it looks like an inferno.

00:03:43.000 Do you think this will get you out of California finally?

00:03:47.000 Yeah, maybe.

00:03:48.000 Where are you going to go?

00:03:49.000 I don't know.

00:03:50.000 I've got a place in Costa Rica.

00:03:52.000 I love it there.

00:03:53.000 Costa Rica is nice.

00:03:54.000 Yeah, I bought there many years ago.

00:03:56.000 It's in a real nice spot.

00:03:58.000 It's not too touristy.

00:04:00.000 You know, dirt roads.

00:04:01.000 Oh, nice.

00:04:02.000 Off the beaten.

00:04:03.000 Does it feel safe out there?

00:04:06.000 Pretty safe.

00:04:07.000 I think, look, no place is safe.

00:04:09.000 I mean, you've got the Dariang down there, you know. 1.00

00:04:11.000 What's that?

00:04:12.000 It's kind of in the, what's the next country down?

00:04:15.000 Panama.

00:04:16.000 And there's this no man's land where the Colombians come through and it's like, you know, all kinds of dirty dealings in the jungle with, you know, who knows, you know, drugs and mules and, you know. 1.00

00:04:28.000 Yeah.

00:04:30.000 So, you know, it can be dangerous and I've heard of danger happening there.

00:04:35.000 You know, you hear about somebody getting chopped up by a machete.

00:04:38.000 And Costa Rica, it's actually a cool place because it never had a culture of death.

00:04:46.000 Like a lot of the Central American countries did.

00:04:49.000 They have a culture of death, you know.

00:04:51.000 Even Mexico, I mean, they used to, you know, tear people's hearts out. 1.00

00:04:55.000 Aztecs.

00:04:55.000 All that sort of stuff.

00:04:57.000 Aztecs were like the Romans. 1.00

00:04:58.000 The Mayans were like the Greeks. 1.00

00:04:59.000 But they all sort of dabbled in some stuff.

00:05:03.000 Costa Rica always had a policy where they...

00:05:06.000 It's like the Switzerland of Central America.

00:05:09.000 They emphasize education and health, and everybody's literate, and it's kind of interesting in that way.

00:05:17.000 But it deals with its own little troubles.

00:05:20.000 Yeah.

00:05:21.000 Like every country, you know, corrupt.

00:05:22.000 Anywhere down in that part of the world is just like there's so much sketchy shit going on all around you.

00:05:29.000 Yeah, there can be.

00:05:30.000 Yeah.

00:05:31.000 Yeah, one has to.

00:05:33.000 Be forewarned, forearmed, all that.

00:05:35.000 So I have a nice place down there.

00:05:37.000 Yeah, I have some friends that have a place in Mexico.

00:05:40.000 And I'm always like, don't you ever worry.

00:05:43.000 Yeah, I worked in Mexico a couple of times.

00:05:45.000 I was down there and it was in Baracruz.

00:05:49.000 And apparently, you know, people were rolling heads into bars and stuff like that.

00:05:53.000 You know, rival gangs and stuff.

00:05:55.000 And they said, I'd go for a walk, you know.

00:05:59.000 They'd say, you're crazy going for a walk.

00:06:01.000 You'll get kidnapped.

00:06:02.000 I said, I'm not going to get kidnapped.

00:06:04.000 I'm the guy that pays.

00:06:05.000 You're going to get kidnapped.

00:06:07.000 And I'm not going to pay your ransom.

00:06:10.000 It's like, I never felt insecure in that way.

00:06:16.000 And, you know, if something's going to happen, it's going to happen.

00:06:19.000 Yeah.

00:06:19.000 You know, if your number's up.

00:06:20.000 I know, I used to watch guys who do what I do for a living, and they'd have a phalanx of bodyguards around them, you know.

00:06:29.000 And, like, for security and stuff.

00:06:31.000 And I used to have that stuff for a little while, but, meh, it doesn't make any difference.

00:06:36.000 You're going to be okay.

00:06:38.000 Okay.

00:06:39.000 Or not.

00:06:39.000 Or not, right?

00:06:41.000 Until you're not.

00:06:42.000 Until you're not.

00:06:42.000 And everybody's going to be okay until they're not.

00:06:44.000 Yeah.

00:06:44.000 I got in a dodgy situation one night, and I acted crazy.

00:06:48.000 Yeah?

00:06:49.000 Yeah.

00:06:49.000 What happened?

00:06:50.000 If you act crazy, everybody leaves you alone.

00:06:53.000 Especially if you are a little crazy.

00:06:54.000 A little.

00:06:55.000 You know?

00:06:57.000 You're in a stress mode.

00:06:58.000 So you actually get angry.

00:07:00.000 If I feel like I'm threatened, I get angry, which is what happens.

00:07:05.000 And then you get really in people's faces and they think, this guy's crazy.

00:07:09.000 But all the old cultures thought that.

00:07:11.000 Like when there were people traveling across the Great Plains to go west, you know, if you acted nuts, they'd leave you alone because they didn't want your evil spirits.

00:07:20.000 So what happened with you?

00:07:21.000 Nothing.

00:07:22.000 They left me alone.

00:07:23.000 But where was this?

00:07:24.000 Oh man, I was in a bad neighborhood.

00:07:29.000 It was when I first got into L.A. and I was to go to dinner with Costa Gavris.

00:07:35.000 He was a Greek director.

00:07:38.000 I went the wrong way.

00:07:40.000 And it was before they had phones and all that stuff.

00:07:44.000 The Thomas Guide.

00:07:46.000 It was the Thomas Guide.

00:07:47.000 Anyway, I wasn't guided well by Thomas.

00:07:50.000 I ended up in the wrong place.

00:07:52.000 And then my muffler fell off.

00:07:54.000 And I was driving a Mercedes, you know, pretty nice sporty car, you know.

00:07:58.000 And I thought, oh, and I had the wife in the car. 0.94

00:08:01.000 I pulled into a side street.

00:08:03.000 The sun was going down.

00:08:05.000 And as I got out of the car, I thought, oh, I've got to fix this muffler.

00:08:09.000 I can't just drag it.

00:08:11.000 People started coming from houses.

00:08:13.000 And they came up to me, and I saw them coming in the rearview mirror.

00:08:20.000 I jumped out of the car and got in their face. 0.95

00:08:22.000 And I said, what the fuck do you want?

00:08:24.000 Because I thought, I felt threatened.

00:08:25.000 And the guy said, man, I'm just looking for some money.

00:08:29.000 You got any money?

00:08:30.000 So I was being mugged.

00:08:32.000 And it was like, I thought, I'll think about it when I'm fucking finished.

00:08:37.000 I opened the trunk.

00:08:38.000 And this is the weird part, Joe.

00:08:40.000 I will never quite understand this.

00:08:43.000 I opened the trunk to see what I could find to help me put the muffler back on.

00:08:47.000 And sitting there...

00:08:48.000 The only two things in the back of the trunk was a pair of wire cutters and a coat hanger.

00:08:56.000 It's exactly what I needed, and I don't know why it was there.

00:08:59.000 That's weird, isn't it?

00:09:00.000 That's very weird.

00:09:01.000 So you used the coat hanger to wire up your muffler?

00:09:04.000 Yep.

00:09:05.000 I cut a piece of wire, wired the muffler up.

00:09:07.000 The whole time, more guys are coming.

00:09:08.000 Jesus Christ.

00:09:09.000 And they're standing behind me, and I'm feeling like, oh.

00:09:11.000 And anyway, I get...

00:09:15.000 I finished the muffler, slammed, and I'm acting mad and crazy the whole time.

00:09:18.000 And I think, this guy's nuts.

00:09:20.000 And I get back to the car, and my wife gives me a handful of cash.

00:09:24.000 And I thought, what's this?

00:09:25.000 She says, it's just wives and ones. 1.00

00:09:27.000 Give it to them.

00:09:27.000 So I threw it and drove off.

00:09:29.000 But it was like, it was looking hairy for a minute.

00:09:32.000 And you never know.

00:09:34.000 What year was this?

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00:10:46.000 Seriously, get on this.

00:10:47.000 So things are more dangerous now.

00:10:49.000 I think they are.

00:10:49.000 Yeah, I think so for sure.

00:10:51.000 Yeah.

00:10:52.000 Yeah, we were just talking about the wildfire situation and how crazy it is that they spent $24 billion last year on the homeless.

00:11:01.000 Yeah.

00:11:02.000 And what do they spend on?

00:11:04.000 Preventing these wildfires.

00:11:06.000 Zero.

00:11:07.000 Zip.

00:11:07.000 And in 2019, I think Newsom said, you know, I'm going to take care of the forest and maintain the forest and do all that kind of stuff.

00:11:13.000 He didn't do anything.

00:11:14.000 Didn't do anything.

00:11:15.000 And then on top of that, they cut the water off.

00:11:17.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:11:18.000 Yeah, it's all funny.

00:11:19.000 And then I think all our tax dollars probably went for Gavin's hair gel.

00:11:22.000 I don't know, but it's like, you know, it's sad.

00:11:25.000 It's like the place is just on fire.

00:11:27.000 Well, the whole state is just so...

00:11:29.000 Poorly managed.

00:11:30.000 It's so frustrating and confusing and then he gets on TV and pretends like everything's great.

00:11:37.000 California is the best.

00:11:39.000 We have the best state.

00:11:40.000 We have the most amazing economy.

00:11:42.000 You're out of your fucking mind, dude.

00:11:43.000 You've ruined this state.

00:11:45.000 Personally ruined it.

00:11:47.000 Well, it's the same team that was up in San Francisco.

00:11:49.000 They came down to L.A. and they're doing what they did in San Francisco.

00:11:52.000 Yeah.

00:11:53.000 San Francisco's kind of like apocalyptic now, you know?

00:11:56.000 Yeah.

00:11:56.000 I went there and it's just like people, you know, homeless.

00:11:59.000 You know, it's just a mess.

00:12:00.000 It's just unbelievable that society can crumble that quickly.

00:12:04.000 Mm-hmm.

00:12:04.000 It really is unbelievable.

00:12:06.000 It doesn't take long.

00:12:07.000 No.

00:12:07.000 Yeah.

00:12:08.000 I read a book once by Jared Diamond called Collapse.

00:12:11.000 You ever read that book?

00:12:12.000 Yeah.

00:12:13.000 Crazy, right?

00:12:14.000 It says all the things you need for a civilization to cave in and collapse.

00:12:18.000 And a lot of the things are present.

00:12:21.000 All those earmarks, the precursors of a collapse, they're present in our time.

00:12:26.000 So it's an interesting observation.

00:12:29.000 Yeah.

00:12:29.000 And we're no smarter than our grandparents, I don't think.

00:12:32.000 Well, that brings me to one of my favorite movies of yours is Apocalypto.

00:12:36.000 Oh, yeah.

00:12:36.000 You know, when the Mayans were running things, like, who could have ever thought when they had such an incredibly sophisticated society, unbelievable construction, like the stuff that they had built that one day you just walk through there and there's nothing.

00:12:48.000 Nothing.

00:12:49.000 Nothing and nobody.

00:12:50.000 In fact, there's something because it's interesting.

00:12:53.000 Somebody was flying by what they thought was a volcano in the 30s, some buzzboy.

00:12:58.000 And he thought, hey, somebody built that.

00:13:01.000 Wait a minute, there's four-by-eight-foot bricks.

00:13:05.000 That's man-made.

00:13:06.000 And it is literally the biggest pyramid in the world.

00:13:10.000 It's bigger than the ones in Egypt, and it's in Guatemala.

00:13:13.000 Yeah, we talked about that the other day.

00:13:15.000 Yeah, it's a recent discovery, right?

00:13:17.000 Well, not that reason.

00:13:20.000 Maybe 20 years ago, I visited.

00:13:22.000 I went down there with the archaeologist, a guy named Richard Hansen, Idaho or someplace.

00:13:30.000 And he's down there with his family.

00:13:31.000 He's been working tirelessly for like 30 years trying to extract this pre-classic city from the jungle.

00:13:38.000 And there's not a bunch of tourists.

00:13:40.000 All the pyramids in Tikal would fit inside the one big pyramid in El Mirador. 0.87

00:13:48.000 Really?

00:13:48.000 Yeah.

00:13:49.000 It's a monster.

00:13:50.000 And so that tells you that the pre-classic civilization was bigger and grander and more sophisticated than the civilizations that came after it.

00:13:59.000 Yeah.

00:14:00.000 Pretty interesting.

00:14:01.000 Well, it is unbelievable how, like, when the accounts of, like, people that visited Mexico and visited the Aztecs, like, what the markets looked like and how insane it was and how gorgeous it was.

00:14:13.000 Yeah.

00:14:14.000 Disease.

00:14:15.000 Yeah, disease.

00:14:16.000 I don't know if it was disease or what.

00:14:18.000 I think the people were pretty dissatisfied.

00:14:20.000 It would have been hard for Cortez with his limited numbers to actually take over a civilization like that unless they kind of happened upon a civilization that was pretty dissatisfied with the way things were going.

00:14:34.000 Yeah.

00:14:34.000 So I think they had people to help them sort of.

00:14:37.000 Rebel.

00:14:38.000 When you're making a movie like Apocalypto, I mean, that's a crazy undertaking.

00:14:42.000 You're making an entire movie where there's no English in it at all, and it's a blockbuster.

00:14:47.000 Yeah.

00:14:47.000 Yeah, it's cool.

00:14:48.000 It was fun.

00:14:49.000 That's one of the best movies, man.

00:14:50.000 It's a fucking great movie.

00:14:52.000 Well, because I think it's scary because nobody's speaking your language.

00:14:56.000 And you're looking at indigenous peoples who you, and because they're not speaking the language, you totally kind of buy it. 1.00

00:15:04.000 And you can buy the horror and the primal nature of the story you want to tell.

00:15:10.000 And really, it's just a series of fears, one after the other.

00:15:16.000 You know, being chased by scary guys, or eaten by wild animals, or hit by blowguns.

00:15:23.000 It's all like a series of these things.

00:15:27.000 But I think basically what I was doing was trying to talk about our time now.

00:15:33.000 And the civilization that we live in.

00:15:35.000 And how close are we to collapse?

00:15:37.000 And what are the things that lead to collapse?

00:15:39.000 You know, it's environmental stuff.

00:15:41.000 It's human sacrifice.

00:15:44.000 Yeah.

00:15:45.000 I mean, we do that.

00:15:46.000 Kinda.

00:15:47.000 We do.

00:15:48.000 Yeah.

00:15:48.000 Yeah, we do.

00:15:49.000 We just dress it up.

00:15:51.000 Yep.

00:15:52.000 When you find out medications are killing people and they keep prescribing them and they do it for money, that's kind of sacrifice.

00:15:58.000 It is.

00:15:58.000 When you find out that wars are...

00:16:00.000 Irresponsible.

00:16:01.000 They're not just wars.

00:16:02.000 Not just?

00:16:03.000 No.

00:16:04.000 They're for money?

00:16:05.000 We send our young people over there to die. 1.00

00:16:08.000 Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for not.

00:16:12.000 I mean, I love the warrior.

00:16:15.000 I do, I love the warrior, but I hate the war.

00:16:18.000 Yeah.

00:16:20.000 We hate an unjust war.

00:16:22.000 Yes, absolutely.

00:16:24.000 Yeah.

00:16:25.000 Anyway, it's a mess.

00:16:30.000 The human sacrifice aspect is alive and well in our society, I think. 0.90

00:16:35.000 It really is.

00:16:36.000 It's just dressed up in a different way.

00:16:38.000 Yeah.

00:16:40.000 Yeah, rhetoric around it.

00:16:41.000 But they've always been able to justify it.

00:16:44.000 Like in Apocalypto, it was like, yeah, so the crops will be better.

00:16:47.000 Hey, we'll just, you know.

00:16:48.000 Yeah, kill a few people.

00:16:50.000 Yeah.

00:16:50.000 And then I had all these people come out of the woodwork.

00:16:52.000 Hey, we're...

00:16:53.000 We're archaeologists and scientists, and that never happened.

00:16:56.000 So there's this revisionism about it, too, that it didn't happen.

00:16:59.000 But there are accounts from the time where, yes, people did witness these things.

00:17:04.000 And, of course, I had a bunch of battery of archaeologists and scientists and professors on my own that say, yeah, well, this stuff did happen, and here's the depictions of it in paintings and images.

00:17:18.000 So it did happen.

00:17:22.000 When you set out to make a movie like that, first of all, what brings you to that?

00:17:27.000 Did you get the script first?

00:17:29.000 Was it an idea that you had in your head?

00:17:32.000 It just came from in here.

00:17:35.000 And I was working on something and a buddy of mine said, so what do you want to do next?

00:17:39.000 I said, ah, man.

00:17:40.000 I want to direct something.

00:17:41.000 I always want to direct a chase film.

00:17:44.000 He said, what kind of chase?

00:17:45.000 I said, a foot chase.

00:17:47.000 He said, what?

00:17:48.000 I said, yeah, people chasing you.

00:17:50.000 I mean, there's something kind of primal and scary about a foot chase.

00:17:53.000 And I think, in order to have a foot chase, you can't have a society where there's any kind of cars or anything like that.

00:17:59.000 Otherwise, you have a car chase.

00:18:00.000 But I want to film a foot chase like it's a car chase.

00:18:03.000 And he said, oh.

00:18:05.000 I said, what are you thinking?

00:18:06.000 I said, well...

00:18:07.000 I'm thinking if you go back before Columbus discovered America, you know, and it's like people assume that Columbus discovered America and then life began.

00:18:17.000 I said, I want to know what was happening right before he got there, before he got there.

00:18:22.000 And I said, so I had this idea that...

00:18:24.000 You see all this stuff going on and there's no time period on it.

00:18:28.000 And then all of a sudden you date it by the arrival of Europeans.

00:18:31.000 And I thought, it's kind of like the Rod Serling, you know, Planet of the Apes.

00:18:35.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:18:36.000 It's kind of a cool ending.

00:18:39.000 And he said, oh, wow.

00:18:40.000 And he said, where do you think Columbus landed?

00:18:42.000 I said, well, let's look.

00:18:44.000 So I looked up and the first peoples he encountered were Mayan trading canoes off the coast of Honduras.

00:18:51.000 And I thought, cool.

00:18:52.000 What was happening in Honduras?

00:18:54.000 And you look at these towns and pyramids and temples and stuff at that time.

00:19:00.000 And then the story was born from there.

00:19:03.000 And of course, then we read the book by Jared Diamond, Collapse.

00:19:06.000 I read the Mayan Bible, the Popol Vuh, and tried to delve into what they believed and what their civilization was like.

00:19:14.000 And they had concepts, as we do, of heaven and hell, of punishment or reward.

00:19:21.000 You know?

00:19:22.000 It was a little different.

00:19:23.000 Quite a bit different, actually.

00:19:25.000 In fact, when I went down to the archaeological sites at Il Mirador, they dug something up.

00:19:32.000 And it was like, well, what is it?

00:19:33.000 And they said, we don't know.

00:19:36.000 There was this carved image in the stone of this Mayan warrior drinking.

00:19:40.000 He had an ear spool.

00:19:41.000 And it was like, hmm.

00:19:43.000 So they dug further and further, and it went like 26 meters down.

00:19:47.000 And it was the entire story of the Popol Vuh. 0.83

00:19:51.000 Wow.

00:19:52.000 Of the twins going into hell and getting their father's head and swimming back.

00:19:55.000 And it's this crazy story.

00:19:57.000 And it kind of dated that book because I think it was almost 3,000 years old, this mural, this carving.

00:20:09.000 So it tells you the story's pretty old.

00:20:11.000 And they thought initially it was probably back in the 1300s, but this confirmed that it was at least 2,600 years old, something like that.

00:20:18.000 Oh, wow.

00:20:19.000 Yeah, so it's pretty cool.

00:20:20.000 To be there when they're digging that stuff up is mind-blowing.

00:20:24.000 Well, they're missing so much of the Mayan history.

00:20:27.000 It's very interesting.

00:20:28.000 You want some coffee?

00:20:29.000 I want some water.

00:20:30.000 That's water.

00:20:30.000 Water.

00:20:31.000 They're missing so much of the Mayan history because everybody's gone.

00:20:37.000 You ever see the very bizarre carving where it looks like there's a guy who's sitting in a cockpit of a spaceship looking through some sort of an eye thing?

00:20:47.000 Yeah, they've got some weird stuff.

00:20:49.000 Weird?

00:20:49.000 Yeah.

00:20:50.000 Where there's fire underneath the chair?

00:20:52.000 Like, what is that?

00:20:53.000 They've got dudes that look like Europeans.

00:20:55.000 They have these guys with red beards and helmets and stuff like these Phoenician guys who probably traveled over there early on.

00:21:04.000 Yeah.

00:21:06.000 Probably maybe in the 6th century or something like that.

00:21:09.000 So it wasn't that long a boat ride.

00:21:11.000 So they probably went over there and made contact.

00:21:13.000 And they thought they were gods or something.

00:21:15.000 And then they went away again.

00:21:16.000 And they said, well, wait for them to come back.

00:21:19.000 And, of course, they did come back.

00:21:21.000 But it didn't work out the same.

00:21:23.000 No.

00:21:24.000 Well, there's so many accounts of people visiting, especially when you get into the Amazon.

00:21:30.000 Sure.

00:21:31.000 Oh, I don't know about the Amazon.

00:21:32.000 Oh, my God.

00:21:33.000 Tell me about that.

00:21:34.000 Well, first of all, the Amazon used to be filled with people.

00:21:37.000 And most of the Amazon is man-made.

00:21:40.000 The jungle in the Amazon is in agriculture.

00:21:43.000 Yeah, wow.

00:21:44.000 Yeah.

00:21:44.000 Okay.

00:21:44.000 The jungle in the Amazon, they didn't even know this until fairly recently.

00:21:48.000 And they now know from flying over, they use LIDAR. Which is this lightning radar.

00:21:55.000 So when they use this laser radar shit, when they fly over it, they're finding all these grids and pathways and cities in the jungle.

00:22:03.000 So the jungle had consumed all these cities.

00:22:06.000 I think there was millions and millions of people living in the Amazon.

00:22:09.000 And that Europeans came over. 1.00

00:22:12.000 Diseases.

00:22:12.000 Everybody dies.

00:22:13.000 Jungle consumes the city.

00:22:15.000 People come back 200 years later looking for it, like the lost city of Z, like that story.

00:22:20.000 They go back to look, and there's nothing left.

00:22:23.000 Guns, germs, and steel.

00:22:25.000 Yeah.

00:22:26.000 Great.

00:22:28.000 Yeah.

00:22:29.000 Wow.

00:22:30.000 That's fascinating.

00:22:30.000 I'll have to look into that.

00:22:32.000 And we're going through all those things right now.

00:22:33.000 Guns, germs, and steel.

00:22:34.000 Oh, yeah.

00:22:35.000 Oh, my God.

00:22:36.000 Germs.

00:22:37.000 Yeah.

00:22:38.000 Germs.

00:22:39.000 I'm just...

00:22:40.000 Just on the tail end of some hideous flu that was gone.

00:22:43.000 Did you get the H5N1 or whatever the fuck it is?

00:22:46.000 I don't know what the hell.

00:22:47.000 Yeah, I've had that.

00:22:48.000 That was the swine thing. 1.00

00:22:49.000 I had swine flu one time.

00:22:51.000 Did you have that in 2009?

00:22:52.000 Yes.

00:22:53.000 It was around then.

00:22:54.000 Yeah, it was an epidemic.

00:22:56.000 A pandemic, whatever you want to call it.

00:22:58.000 But it didn't have the same sort of press releases that COVID did.

00:23:02.000 Sure.

00:23:03.000 I got the swine flu.

00:23:04.000 I acted more like a pig.

00:23:06.000 Terrible.

00:23:07.000 Terrible.

00:23:07.000 Wallowing in my own mud.

00:23:10.000 So, I like Flight Risk.

00:23:12.000 It's a fun movie.

00:23:12.000 Oh, it's a hoot.

00:23:14.000 I mean, I think the first thing you've got to do with any film, and I think it's incumbent upon all directors, artists, to entertain first.

00:23:23.000 In some fashion.

00:23:24.000 Even if it's a heavy story, you have to find some aspect of it that entertains.

00:23:30.000 And I think this, for entertainment's sake, is just fun, and it's quick.

00:23:35.000 I'm not subjecting you to four hours of, like, watching autism dry.

00:23:39.000 Right.

00:23:40.000 It's like, you know, it's 85, 90 minutes and you're out.

00:23:45.000 Yeah, it's a good time.

00:23:46.000 Yeah, and Mark is insane.

00:23:47.000 Yeah, he's great in it.

00:23:48.000 He plays a good psycho.

00:23:49.000 Oh, he's a psychopath.

00:23:50.000 Mark's got a good dark side.

00:23:52.000 There's some dark stuff there that he was able to draw from.

00:23:56.000 And every now and then he'd let it out.

00:23:59.000 I can't even repeat some of the stuff he'd say.

00:24:01.000 In fact, we had to cut most of it out.

00:24:03.000 It was like...

00:24:04.000 Really sick.

00:24:05.000 But we hint at it.

00:24:08.000 When you make a movie now, I mean, you've had such a career.

00:24:13.000 When you make a movie now, what motivates you at this point in your life?

00:24:17.000 How do you decide, let's hit the green light on this one?

00:24:21.000 Yeah, there are things that speak to me.

00:24:23.000 And they speak for a long time.

00:24:29.000 I remember when I was a kid in high school, I was...

00:24:33.000 Studying English.

00:24:34.000 And they, well, where did the English language come from?

00:24:36.000 And they talked about, wow, it came from this old guttural German, Old Norse that the Vikings brought across. 0.65

00:24:43.000 And I was thinking, wow, that's cool, the Vikings, you know?

00:24:45.000 And then immediately I start thinking, man, somebody should make, I want to make a film about Vikings and they only speak in Old Norse because if they say, if they speak English all of a sudden...

00:24:59.000 Right.

00:25:00.000 You're not buying it.

00:25:01.000 But if they're speaking some guttural language, you're sort of scared by them.

00:25:05.000 And it's like, that's scary to me.

00:25:07.000 And then I said to myself, I'm 17 years old.

00:25:09.000 Why am I thinking about making films about Vikings?

00:25:12.000 I don't know anything about making films and not much about Vikings.

00:25:14.000 So why the hell am I even thinking about that?

00:25:17.000 But that was something that was...

00:25:19.000 Early on was like a drive, I guess, to sort of depict things like that.

00:25:24.000 So I did films in other languages, in Mayan and in Aramaic and in Latin.

00:25:30.000 And there's a power to that.

00:25:33.000 I noticed when I was young, I used to go and watch a lot of foreign films.

00:25:36.000 And I'd watch French movies, right?

00:25:39.000 Or German or whatever they were, Spanish.

00:25:41.000 I'd watch them and I'd think, wow, the acting's great in those.

00:25:43.000 And it seemed better because...

00:25:45.000 Of the subtitles.

00:25:46.000 Right.

00:25:47.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:25:48.000 More believable somehow.

00:25:49.000 I don't know.

00:25:50.000 Right, because you're not hearing insincerity in their voice because you don't even understand what they're saying.

00:25:56.000 No.

00:25:56.000 Yeah, you just feel the emotions in the words.

00:25:59.000 And also, it has to take your attention because you have to do another function.

00:26:02.000 You have to read.

00:26:03.000 Yeah.

00:26:04.000 Which is another thing that's sort of...

00:26:06.000 Maybe blinds you to the flaws in the filmmaking, perhaps.

00:26:10.000 So, you know, hey, it's a great trick.

00:26:12.000 It's obfuscation.

00:26:13.000 There's a thing about reading it while you're watching it that's like an added element of concentration.

00:26:18.000 You know, like subtitled movies, you feel like you're a smarter person watching a movie where you're reading it as well.

00:26:26.000 Yeah, and there's something about the written word that's like, it's a pretty interesting thing to throw into the mix.

00:26:31.000 I know when I first started it was kind of confusing, but then I got really good at it.

00:26:36.000 And I think, especially with something like the passion that I did, the written word was very important because it was, you know...

00:26:44.000 You got all those books, the Bible, you know, you've got the different gospels and stuff that people are quite familiar with.

00:26:49.000 Half the time, they didn't even need to read the subtitles.

00:26:52.000 They could look at it and know what was going on.

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00:27:40.000 The crown is yours.

00:27:41.000 The crown is yours.

00:28:11.000 That was a crazy movie because it was a great movie, but it seemed like there was resistance to that movie.

00:28:18.000 Oh, yeah.

00:28:19.000 Which I thought was very strange.

00:28:22.000 There was like Hollywood resistance to that movie.

00:28:24.000 People didn't like that you were making it, it seemed like.

00:28:27.000 Yeah, there was a lot of opposition to it.

00:28:31.000 I don't know.

00:28:33.000 I think if you ever hit on that subject matter, you're going to get people going.

00:28:39.000 Of course.

00:28:40.000 It's big subject matter, and it's like, you know, and my contention is, you know, when I was making it, it was like, you're making this film, and the idea was that we're all responsible for this, that his sacrifice was for all mankind, and that for all our ills and all the things in our fallen nature.

00:29:02.000 It was a redemption.

00:29:04.000 So, you know, and I believe that, you know, I actually am.

00:29:09.000 You know, I was born into a Catholic family.

00:29:11.000 I'm very Christian in my beliefs, you know.

00:29:13.000 So I do actually believe this stuff to the full.

00:29:17.000 So depicting that was an honor, but it was also, yeah, you got the daylights beat out of you for it.

00:29:24.000 Yeah, because there's there's resistance first of all from secular Hollywood where for whatever reason Christianity is the one religion that you're allowed to disparage.

00:29:33.000 Yeah Christianity is the one religion where people All these progressive Open-minded leftist people they'll embrace all these different religions until it comes to Christianity.

00:29:47.000 I And for whatever reason, that represents white, male, whatever it represents, colonialism, whatever it represents that's negative.

00:29:58.000 Yeah, sure.

00:29:58.000 It's gotten a bad rap.

00:30:00.000 And people do feel free to beat up on it.

00:30:04.000 Even I do when I see it's like, you know, when it's not fair.

00:30:08.000 Right.

00:30:08.000 When I think it's off.

00:30:09.000 Right.

00:30:09.000 Like, you know, when they appoint some cardinal in some diocese and he's been covering up for, like, people who are child molesters.

00:30:18.000 Yes.

00:30:18.000 You know, like Theodore McCarrick or Cardinal Wuerl or those kind of guys.

00:30:22.000 Or the Pope.

00:30:23.000 Yes, absolutely.

00:30:24.000 Benedict.

00:30:26.000 Not Benny.

00:30:26.000 Well, he was covering up, but, like, so is the guy now.

00:30:29.000 Is he really?

00:30:30.000 Well, yeah.

00:30:32.000 It's not great.

00:30:33.000 I thought he was like the more progressive pope.

00:30:35.000 Oh, he's very progressive, yes.

00:30:37.000 But he's covering up for stuff as well.

00:30:39.000 Well, they all are.

00:30:40.000 I mean, it's a dark institution in a lot of ways because it's history, you know.

00:30:46.000 Well, you know, the institution, it was instituted by Christ, you know, but that doesn't mean that it can't be flawed.

00:30:52.000 And there's a school of thought that says it isn't what it purports to be anymore.

00:30:59.000 It's moved away from what it was intended to be and what it is.

00:31:06.000 There's a guy called Bishop Vigano who says it's a counterfeit parallel church.

00:31:13.000 And it's running an entirely different religion. 0.69

00:31:17.000 I actually don't adhere to a post-conciliar church.

00:31:24.000 I adhere...

00:31:25.000 Can you define what that means?

00:31:26.000 Okay.

00:31:28.000 There was an event that happened in the 60s.

00:31:31.000 First, there was an event in the Vatican where they elected John XXIII Pope, right, in 1958. I was two years old, right?

00:31:43.000 He was elected, and it was a very funny thing that happened in the conclave.

00:31:47.000 You know, usually there's white and black smoke that goes out of the chimneys to tell you, we have a pope, you know, have him us, pop him, you know?

00:31:55.000 And the white smoke came out.

00:31:57.000 And everybody cheered and they went crazy.

00:32:00.000 And then about a half an hour later, black smoke came out.

00:32:03.000 Never in history has that happened.

00:32:05.000 That the white smoke came out and then the black smoke came out.

00:32:08.000 So white smoke means we found a new pope.

00:32:10.000 Black smoke means no pope.

00:32:12.000 That's right.

00:32:13.000 They'd have votes or there'd be one reason or another they'd have a round in the conclave and black smoke would come out many times, many times maybe.

00:32:20.000 Maybe it would take two weeks.

00:32:22.000 But never was it known that white smoke came out then black smoke came out.

00:32:27.000 So what was the scenario?

00:32:30.000 That somebody was elected and that maybe something else happened and he was pushed aside and someone else was put in.

00:32:39.000 So it was power struggle.

00:32:41.000 Some kind of power struggle.

00:32:43.000 And, of course, the man who came out was a man called Angelo Roncalli and he was John XXIII. Now it's interesting to note that never had a pope taken the name of another pope ever before in history.

00:32:57.000 This man took the name of a known anti-pope from the 15th century that Cosimo de' Medici put in there as his own man.

00:33:06.000 I'll get you in the chair and then everything will be rosy.

00:33:08.000 You know, everything will go good for business.

00:33:10.000 You know, whatever he was putting him in there for, some corrupt reason.

00:33:14.000 And there have been corrupt men in that place before.

00:33:17.000 I mean, there's Alexander VI and Julius II and Sixtus IV. I mean, some of these guys are, you know, they're not saints.

00:33:26.000 So he took the name of a known anti-pope from the 5th century who actually said, yes, I'm an anti-pope.

00:33:32.000 Sorry, I'm not the right guy because there was more than one, and he confessed to being, and he wanted to, you know, square things with the Almighty, I guess, so he confessed to being an anti-pope.

00:33:43.000 And so he took the same name as that guy, John XXIII. So it's interesting, don't you think?

00:33:50.000 I mean, why would he do that?

00:33:52.000 Well, whenever you have that kind of power, like I'm sure you've been to the Vatican, right?

00:33:57.000 Yeah.

00:33:57.000 It's stunning.

00:33:58.000 Yes, it's huge.

00:33:59.000 It's so crazy.

00:34:00.000 When you're walking around, you see just the massive, just the dollar value in the art that they possess.

00:34:07.000 Yeah.

00:34:08.000 It's fucking insane.

00:34:09.000 It's crazy.

00:34:10.000 Yeah.

00:34:11.000 And, you know, it's a very small country.

00:34:15.000 It's a country, I guess.

00:34:16.000 Yeah, it's a country inside of a small city.

00:34:18.000 Yeah.

00:34:19.000 Because Rome's not the biggest city.

00:34:21.000 No.

00:34:22.000 And then it's got a country inside the city?

00:34:24.000 Yeah.

00:34:25.000 With walls around it?

00:34:27.000 Sure.

00:34:27.000 And you can't extradite people?

00:34:29.000 Yeah, pretty weird.

00:34:30.000 How convenient.

00:34:31.000 Yeah.

00:34:32.000 Even Ratzinger, he didn't drive from the Vatican to the other place.

00:34:37.000 He flew.

00:34:38.000 Ooh.

00:34:39.000 And it was only a little while, because who knows why?

00:34:42.000 I don't know.

00:34:43.000 Well, he was wanted.

00:34:44.000 Yes.

00:34:45.000 Yeah, I mean, he had done, one of the things that he had done was he had moved a priest that had molested a hundred kids, and he moved him to some new place where he molested deaf kids.

00:34:58.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:34:59.000 Boy.

00:35:00.000 Yeah.

00:35:00.000 Yeah, I know.

00:35:01.000 That's the dirtiest, most evil practice that the Catholic Church has been accused of.

00:35:06.000 I think so, and many institutions as well, but that is a very bad one.

00:35:11.000 And I think...

00:35:13.000 It's all part and parcel of the same corruption that crept in.

00:35:18.000 And when you ask, what's the difference between pre-Vatican II? So Vatican II happened, and of course they took the church and they reformed it, and they changed things in it.

00:35:30.000 And it didn't necessarily agree with everything that went before it.

00:35:35.000 And up to that point, yeah, you could find it agreed with itself.

00:35:39.000 But all of a sudden, you got something else.

00:35:43.000 To the point where now, I mean, we got a pope that brought a South American idol into the church to worship.

00:35:52.000 Really?

00:35:53.000 He did.

00:35:54.000 The Pachamama.

00:35:56.000 I don't know what that is.

00:35:59.000 It's kind of like a South American god Pachamama.

00:36:02.000 Why would he do that?

00:36:05.000 Good question.

00:36:07.000 But he did.

00:36:08.000 Did he have an explanation for why he did it?

00:36:10.000 Yeah, it's kind of a weasel-worded thing of like, oh, all religions are just as good as one another.

00:36:14.000 But, you know, if that's his contention...

00:36:17.000 He shouldn't be the Pope.

00:36:18.000 No.

00:36:18.000 How can you be the Pope if you say all religions are just as good?

00:36:22.000 Yeah, we all worship.

00:36:23.000 So, yeah.

00:36:24.000 That is the Pachamama.

00:36:25.000 There you go.

00:36:26.000 So he brought that in.

00:36:27.000 Yeah, into the Vatican.

00:36:29.000 Then the higher...

00:36:30.000 The hierarchy even worshipped.

00:36:32.000 They had a ceremony around it outside.

00:36:34.000 What?

00:36:34.000 Well, that constitutes apostasy.

00:36:36.000 Yeah.

00:36:36.000 That's an apostasy move.

00:36:39.000 Worshipping false gods.

00:36:40.000 Yeah.

00:36:40.000 That's number one on the Mosaic hit list.

00:36:43.000 Yeah.

00:36:43.000 Moses goes up on the mountain.

00:36:45.000 He comes back down.

00:36:46.000 People are worshipping him in a golden calf.

00:36:47.000 Yeah.

00:36:48.000 You know, it's that.

00:36:49.000 Yeah.

00:36:50.000 So you can't do that.

00:36:52.000 And for me, that's a departure from...

00:36:57.000 You know, that's called apostasy.

00:36:59.000 That's a falling away from it.

00:37:01.000 And the very nature of apostasy means that you have to be part of it to fall away from it.

00:37:07.000 So it's an inside job.

00:37:11.000 So do you think there's a motive behind these things?

00:37:15.000 I don't think you know.

00:37:18.000 Probably.

00:37:19.000 What do you think it is?

00:37:20.000 I don't know.

00:37:21.000 But it isn't good.

00:37:22.000 I think, look, I think we're looking at a world where...

00:37:27.000 And in the next film I'm going to do, I'm going to try and tackle this question.

00:37:34.000 That there are big realms, spiritual realms.

00:37:38.000 There's good, there's evil, and they are slugging it out for the souls of mankind.

00:37:46.000 And my question is, why are we even important?

00:37:49.000 Little old flawed humanity, why are we important in that process?

00:37:54.000 Where the big realms are slugging it out over us.

00:37:57.000 And I think there's bigger things at play here.

00:38:01.000 And institutions that purport to touch on the divine are necessarily going to be affected by that slugfest that's going on between good and evil.

00:38:11.000 Right.

00:38:12.000 And sometimes good gives up ground.

00:38:15.000 Yeah.

00:38:16.000 And maybe not on purpose.

00:38:18.000 Maybe there's some deception involved or self-deception.

00:38:21.000 Co-opted.

00:38:22.000 Every morning when I wake up, I actually pray that I don't deceive myself.

00:38:28.000 Because it's like, you know, your mind is a very funny place.

00:38:31.000 I mean, I've always said, you know, it's your second thought and your first action that you're responsible for.

00:38:39.000 Your first thought.

00:38:40.000 Throw it away, you know.

00:38:42.000 Right.

00:38:44.000 But upon consideration, the second thought is what you're responsible for.

00:38:48.000 Yeah.

00:38:48.000 That's the difference between first-degree and second-degree murder.

00:38:51.000 There you go.

00:38:52.000 Right?

00:38:54.000 There you go.

00:38:54.000 First-degree, like, I'm plotting this out.

00:38:56.000 And we take that into consideration when we sentence people.

00:38:59.000 Sure.

00:39:00.000 Like, if you're a person who just, all of a sudden you're in a fight with a guy, you didn't expect it, and you stab him and kill him, second-degree murder.

00:39:07.000 Yeah.

00:39:08.000 But if you're like, I'm going to kill this motherfucker, I'm going to find out where he is, and I'm going to go get him, first-degree.

00:39:13.000 Sure.

00:39:13.000 I've planned a lot of murders in my life.

00:39:15.000 We all have.

00:39:16.000 In your head, you plan the murder and you think, well, that's not a very good idea.

00:39:20.000 But I think I could get away with it.

00:39:21.000 Right.

00:39:22.000 There's the second thought.

00:39:23.000 Yeah.

00:39:24.000 That is interesting that we take that into consideration.

00:39:27.000 Yeah.

00:39:27.000 That we do.

00:39:28.000 Like, if you've had time to think about it, you're a different kind of person.

00:39:31.000 The person acts in the act.

00:39:33.000 Sure.

00:39:34.000 You're in your animal brain.

00:39:35.000 Act of passion.

00:39:36.000 Yes.

00:39:36.000 And I found this out.

00:39:37.000 I actually spent a long time in my animal brain.

00:39:41.000 Which is a very horrible place to be.

00:39:45.000 When you say that, what do you mean by you've spent a long time in your animal brain?

00:39:48.000 You're in flight or fight.

00:39:50.000 Right.

00:39:50.000 All the time.

00:39:52.000 You don't even sleep.

00:39:53.000 It's like really not a good place to be.

00:39:57.000 And if anybody looks at you the wrong way, you want to bite them.

00:40:00.000 And sometimes you say and do things that are socially unacceptable.

00:40:04.000 And, you know, I went and got a brain scan by this guy called Daniel Amen, who's this brain guy.

00:40:10.000 He's against all psych meds and stuff, but he thinks, like, let me have a look at your brain.

00:40:13.000 And he put a radioactive tracer in me.

00:40:16.000 Whoa.

00:40:17.000 And to photograph my brain.

00:40:19.000 MRI, right?

00:40:20.000 Yeah, he works with a lot of football players and guys who've had brain injuries.

00:40:24.000 Man, it's thirsty in here.

00:40:27.000 But, um, so he looked at my brain and he was like...

00:40:32.000 And he opens the file and I'm in there with the guy and he looks up and he goes, are you okay?

00:40:39.000 And he goes, no, first he went like this.

00:40:42.000 And I said, what?

00:40:44.000 And he goes, are you okay?

00:40:45.000 Like that.

00:40:45.000 And I said, yeah, I think so.

00:40:47.000 And he came over and he sat next to me, but very slowly and cautiously.

00:40:52.000 And he says, no, you're not.

00:40:53.000 And I said, what do you mean?

00:40:54.000 He says, you've got the worst case of PTSD I've ever seen.

00:40:58.000 And I said, you mean like even worse than guys in war and shit like that?

00:41:02.000 And he goes, yeah.

00:41:04.000 And he says, you're not okay.

00:41:07.000 Jesus Christ.

00:41:09.000 And I was like, and I started to well up, you know, like, no, no, I'm not.

00:41:14.000 Oh, boy.

00:41:16.000 And it was, he had a very miraculous and great remedy.

00:41:24.000 For it.

00:41:25.000 Which was to eat a bunch of fish oil, vitamin B complex, and get into a hyperbaric chamber for 40 sessions.

00:41:33.000 But make sure you do at least two or three a week.

00:41:36.000 Ah.

00:41:37.000 It fixed my head.

00:41:39.000 Really?

00:41:39.000 Yeah, it got me out of that wacky place, you know?

00:41:42.000 So it was something to do with nutrition and oxygen?

00:41:46.000 Yeah.

00:41:47.000 And your brain is neuroplasticity.

00:41:49.000 He explained neuroplasticity to me and how, okay, you can get brain damage and like holes in your head and all, you know, concussion.

00:41:56.000 I used to play rugby.

00:41:58.000 I've been knocked out on the field a couple of times, you know.

00:42:00.000 That explains a lot, you know.

00:42:02.000 Yeah.

00:42:03.000 And so it actually, you can actually heal the holes in your head.

00:42:09.000 It looked like Swiss cheese in there.

00:42:11.000 It's like horrible.

00:42:12.000 A lot of these football players get like that, too.

00:42:14.000 The poor guys, I mean, they get depressed.

00:42:16.000 Oh, yeah.

00:42:17.000 Oh, yeah.

00:42:18.000 Hormonal imbalance, pituitary glands fucked up.

00:42:21.000 Oh, yeah.

00:42:21.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:42:22.000 Yeah, not producing testosterone or human growth hormone correctly.

00:42:25.000 That's correct.

00:42:26.000 Yeah, depression, low energy.

00:42:28.000 Yep.

00:42:29.000 Irritability.

00:42:30.000 Irritability, you want to kill somebody.

00:42:31.000 It's like a terrible thing.

00:42:34.000 And it's just not socially acceptable.

00:42:36.000 Plus, I don't want to go to prison.

00:42:38.000 Yeah.

00:42:38.000 Well, the rugby, I bet, that's a giant factor.

00:42:41.000 Yeah.

00:42:42.000 I played from, like, 13 to probably in my late teens.

00:42:47.000 And you get knocked around a little bit.

00:42:49.000 100%.

00:42:49.000 Yeah.

00:42:49.000 Yeah, there's no ifs, ands, or buts about that.

00:42:52.000 No helmet.

00:42:53.000 Well, people don't realize, like, even shots to the chest cause brain damage.

00:42:56.000 Oh, yeah.

00:42:57.000 Yeah, that's what people are realizing now.

00:42:59.000 Yeah, sure.

00:43:00.000 I mean, you know, and, like, I'm addicted to the UFC. Right?

00:43:04.000 I love it.

00:43:05.000 But I know that these guys are...

00:43:07.000 I feel kind of sorry for them.

00:43:09.000 I do as well.

00:43:10.000 And one of the guys...

00:43:12.000 I knew one of the guys fairly well.

00:43:15.000 And usually I'm pretty immune to, like...

00:43:18.000 But, like, he was in there and he was fighting against Volonovsky.

00:43:22.000 It was Brian Ortega.

00:43:23.000 And he was getting his ass handed to him.

00:43:26.000 In one fight.

00:43:26.000 He almost got him a couple of times.

00:43:28.000 Yeah, he almost submitted him twice.

00:43:30.000 Yeah, I know.

00:43:31.000 But because I knew Brian, it was like my son was in there.

00:43:35.000 I almost started crying.

00:43:37.000 And it got to me.

00:43:38.000 I was like, I should probably feel like this about all these guys, but I don't know them as well.

00:43:42.000 It becomes a problem for me when I'm friends with a guy.

00:43:44.000 And then also I see when they're on the tail end of their career and they can't take shots anymore.

00:43:49.000 And then when you talk to them, you recognize the speech patterns are slurring.

00:43:54.000 Yeah.

00:43:54.000 Yeah, I met Muhammad Ali when he was in a chair, you know?

00:43:57.000 Oof.

00:43:58.000 And I don't know if I could even tell this story.

00:44:02.000 What he said was so funny.

00:44:04.000 But he was still in there, and he was still a little devil.

00:44:08.000 And he was still fucking with people.

00:44:12.000 Of course.

00:44:12.000 But it was like...

00:44:14.000 I can't tell this.

00:44:15.000 You can't?

00:44:16.000 No, man.

00:44:17.000 Okay.

00:44:18.000 Footnote it.

00:44:18.000 Tell me later.

00:44:19.000 I'll tell you later.

00:44:19.000 It is funny.

00:44:20.000 But it was my assistant, you know, is what he said to my assistant.

00:44:23.000 It was like so funny.

00:44:25.000 And then he said it and we all were like, whoa!

00:44:29.000 And then I looked at him and he was just laughing.

00:44:32.000 He was laughing his ass off.

00:44:34.000 So he was still...

00:44:35.000 All in there, but it was hard.

00:44:37.000 I guess he had the damage of being punched.

00:44:39.000 Yeah.

00:44:39.000 Trauma-related Parkinson's disease.

00:44:41.000 Yes.

00:44:41.000 Very common for fighters.

00:44:43.000 Oh, my God.

00:44:44.000 Oh, no.

00:44:44.000 Yeah.

00:44:45.000 Yeah.

00:44:46.000 It's not good.

00:44:47.000 No.

00:44:47.000 I got knocked out in a fight when I was, like, 20. And it was, like, knocked out.

00:44:53.000 Like, out.

00:44:56.000 And it was, you know, I woke up in the hospital.

00:44:59.000 Not good.

00:45:00.000 No.

00:45:01.000 Well, a few of those will explain a lot.

00:45:04.000 Yes, it does.

00:45:05.000 Yeah, and we didn't know that, you know, back then.

00:45:07.000 That's why it always drives me crazy in a movie when someone gets hit over the head with a gun and knocked out, and then five minutes later they're fighting and they're fine.

00:45:14.000 Or shot in the arm, you know.

00:45:16.000 They kill you, you know.

00:45:18.000 That always makes me laugh, too, but we used to do it.

00:45:21.000 Well, you kind of have to, right?

00:45:22.000 Yeah.

00:45:22.000 It's like part of the whole thing of telling a movie.

00:45:26.000 Sure.

00:45:26.000 I mean, Michelle Docker even brains Mark Wahlberg with a fire extinguisher at one point.

00:45:32.000 Yeah.

00:45:33.000 He's back.

00:45:34.000 Brains him, shoots him.

00:45:35.000 Oh, yeah.

00:45:36.000 He's a cockroach.

00:45:37.000 You can't kill him.

00:45:39.000 It takes a lot more.

00:45:40.000 Well, you'll find out.

00:45:42.000 Yeah.

00:45:43.000 But we're, you know...

00:45:45.000 People used to think that concussions are just something you recover from.

00:45:49.000 Like, no big deal.

00:45:50.000 You get a concussion, take a break for a little while, you'll be fine.

00:45:53.000 You might not be fine.

00:45:54.000 No, you're not.

00:45:54.000 I got a concussion at my daughter's wedding.

00:45:58.000 This is really weird, okay?

00:46:00.000 So, she's getting married.

00:46:02.000 Married a great guy.

00:46:03.000 They've got a great family.

00:46:05.000 And a buddy of mine from Australia comes to the wedding.

00:46:08.000 And he goes, hey.

00:46:09.000 He comes up and I go to hug him.

00:46:11.000 And he...

00:46:12.000 He ducks down, and he comes up, and he puts his shoulder into the point of my chin.

00:46:16.000 The guy weighs 240. And he puts his shoulder into the point of my chin and knocks me the fuck out.

00:46:22.000 Jesus Christ.

00:46:23.000 I'm like, ah!

00:46:24.000 And, like, for the next four months, I'm messed up.

00:46:27.000 I have to get, like, a guy to work cranial sacral, you know, fix me up, and stuff like that.

00:46:33.000 It really messed me up.

00:46:35.000 Fucking Australians. 1.00

00:46:36.000 Yeah, there you go.

00:46:37.000 Wild folk.

00:46:38.000 Worse than Germans. 1.00

00:46:40.000 Wild ex-prisoners. 0.65

00:46:41.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:46:42.000 Wild prisoner of Mother England.

00:46:44.000 Yeah.

00:46:45.000 Anyway.

00:46:46.000 So this story that you want to tell about good and evil, do you have a script or is it just a thing in your head?

00:46:53.000 What is it?

00:46:54.000 Yeah, it's the resurrection story.

00:46:57.000 But it's not linear.

00:47:03.000 You can't really...

00:47:04.000 It's hard to understand.

00:47:07.000 So it's got to be put in a framework where you answer a few other questions as well.

00:47:15.000 And you have to juxtapose the event itself against everything else so that it makes some kind of sense in a bigger picture, which is a hard thing to do.

00:47:27.000 And it took my brother and I about...

00:47:29.000 And a guy called Randall Wallace.

00:47:31.000 Plus, my brother and I took us six, seven years to write it.

00:47:36.000 So are you doing this with historians as well?

00:47:38.000 Are you trying to make it...

00:47:39.000 Yeah.

00:47:40.000 Yeah, historical stuff.

00:47:41.000 Well, I regard the Gospels as history.

00:47:44.000 It's a verifiable history.

00:47:45.000 Some people say, oh, it's a fairy tale.

00:47:46.000 He never existed, but he did.

00:47:48.000 And there are other accounts, verifiable, historical accounts outside the biblical ones that also bear this up that, yes, he did exist.

00:47:59.000 And the other aspect of that is that all the evangelists, the apostles who went out there, every single one of those guys died rather than deny their belief.

00:48:12.000 And nobody dies for a lie.

00:48:15.000 Nobody.

00:48:16.000 Right.

00:48:16.000 So that's part of what I'm doing.

00:48:18.000 It's like showing nobody dies for a lie.

00:48:22.000 Yeah.

00:48:23.000 Well, the resurrection is the one that is the most difficult for people to swallow.

00:48:28.000 Yes.

00:48:29.000 That is the one that requires the most faith.

00:48:31.000 The most faith and the most belief.

00:48:33.000 Yeah.

00:48:33.000 Resurrection.

00:48:34.000 Yeah.

00:48:35.000 Who gets back up three days later after he gets murdered in public?

00:48:40.000 Who gets back up under his own power?

00:48:43.000 Buddha didn't do that shit.

00:48:45.000 Right.

00:48:46.000 You believe that was a real event?

00:48:50.000 Yeah, I do.

00:48:51.000 Yeah.

00:48:51.000 What brought you to that belief?

00:48:53.000 Is this something that you've always had or is it something you studied it and you've come to this conclusion because of the historical accounts?

00:49:01.000 Yes.

00:49:02.000 I think as a child, you know, one accepts things on faith because, you know, you're raised by people who are nice to you and they believe it.

00:49:10.000 And my dad was a pretty smart guy.

00:49:11.000 He was like Mensah smart, you know, like real smart.

00:49:15.000 Like, back in 1968, he won Jeopardy, right?

00:49:19.000 Really?

00:49:20.000 And then they brought all the Jeopardy winners back, and he played all the winners, and he beat all of them, too.

00:49:24.000 So he had a mind like a steel trap.

00:49:27.000 And his memory was practically photographic.

00:49:30.000 My memory's pornographic, but his was like, I don't have that kind of mind.

00:49:36.000 Right.

00:49:37.000 But I'm more like, he did math, and I can't add.

00:49:44.000 So as a child, you learn these things and you accept them on faith.

00:49:50.000 And I still have that faith, but as I got older, I came to it through intellect and through reading and putting things together and accounts and then occurrences, like in my own life.

00:50:03.000 I mean, just recently, they verified the Shroud of Turin.

00:50:06.000 Have you seen that?

00:50:07.000 I've been reading about it, and I know that there's some contention, there's some discussion and debate about it, but they used to think that it was only a couple hundred years old, and now they've changed that.

00:50:20.000 Yeah, they've said, no, it's back then.

00:50:22.000 They also don't understand how it was made, which to me is very fascinating, because it's not paint.

00:50:28.000 They don't know what caused the image itself and how that technology would have even been available a couple thousand years ago.

00:50:37.000 An intense light.

00:50:39.000 I mean, atomic.

00:50:41.000 To leave almost like a photographic imprint on a piece of cloth.

00:50:44.000 Yeah.

00:50:46.000 It's wild.

00:50:47.000 Pull that up.

00:50:48.000 Pull the shroud of turn up.

00:50:49.000 Oh, yeah.

00:50:49.000 It's wild to look at because it's so interesting.

00:50:52.000 Oh, yeah.

00:50:55.000 And you can see it, that...

00:50:57.000 It depicts a first century Hebrew male, because the hairstyle was from the first century, and a Hebrew hairstyle, that he was about six feet tall, that he was completely scourged all over his body. 0.53

00:51:10.000 He was crucified.

00:51:14.000 The one on the right is just like an artistic rendition.

00:51:18.000 That's the face.

00:51:19.000 Yeah, click on that one, the face.

00:51:21.000 The face, yeah, that's good enough.

00:51:22.000 Get that large.

00:51:23.000 That's fucking crazy.

00:51:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:51:25.000 Scourged, beaten.

00:51:27.000 The wounds on the thorns, the hands, the feet, and the scourging.

00:51:34.000 And the hairstyle was from the first century.

00:51:39.000 And the pollens that they found in the cloth were from that region.

00:51:44.000 Also, the weave was a first century weave that was typical.

00:51:51.000 Another guy, an archaeologist who I knew who actually translated the Passion into Aramaic, told me that if you look close, you can see the image of a Tiberius coin marks on the eyes.

00:52:03.000 Now, I don't know if that's real or not.

00:52:04.000 I've never actually checked that, but that there's images of Tiberius on the coin.

00:52:09.000 So they would put the coins over the eyes?

00:52:11.000 Yeah.

00:52:12.000 So that would date it.

00:52:15.000 Now verified that it does actually go back to that time period.

00:52:19.000 For a while, they were testing pieces that had been repaired in the 13th century.

00:52:23.000 Right.

00:52:23.000 You know.

00:52:24.000 What is the latest on that, Jamie?

00:52:26.000 Can you see, like, I was trying to get that.

00:52:28.000 I have two different articles from within the last six months saying opposite things.

00:52:32.000 Yeah, the Smith zone. 0.95

00:52:33.000 Yeah, opposite.

00:52:34.000 Of course.

00:52:34.000 Digging into which one sounded the most accurate.

00:52:36.000 Well, it's such a crazy thing to even try to...

00:52:41.000 Verify.

00:52:42.000 What are you saying?

00:52:43.000 You're saying that this is really the shroud that Jesus was covered in?

00:52:47.000 So you're saying Jesus historically absolutely did exist, and we think that this is the shroud that covered him.

00:52:54.000 Just that alone.

00:52:56.000 Incredulity, people immediately...

00:52:58.000 Their hackles raise, like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

00:53:01.000 Instead of looking at it objectively, they almost always want to look at it from a point of view of disproving it immediately.

00:53:09.000 Dismissing it immediately.

00:53:10.000 But that's science, isn't it?

00:53:12.000 You have to play the devil's advocate.

00:53:15.000 And that's okay.

00:53:16.000 Go for it.

00:53:17.000 Are you aware of Graham Hancock?

00:53:19.000 Oh, no.

00:53:20.000 Graham Hancock is sort of...

00:53:23.000 Historian that has a very, he's got a series on Netflix.

00:53:28.000 He's a fascinating guy.

00:53:30.000 And his career started because he was investigating these accounts in Ethiopia of the Ark of the Covenant.

00:53:40.000 And that they believe the Ark of the Covenant is in this one church that's protected by all these monks that wind up getting cataracts and radiation disease and sickness.

00:53:49.000 And they think that it's because they're protecting.

00:53:53.000 This Ark of the Covenant, this actual thing, that it's an actual physical thing that's there.

00:53:58.000 And if you touch it, you get zapped.

00:54:00.000 Yeah.

00:54:00.000 And that even being in its presence fucks these people up.

00:54:03.000 Maybe.

00:54:04.000 Maybe.

00:54:04.000 Who knows?

00:54:05.000 I mean, it's got to be someplace, right?

00:54:06.000 They buried it.

00:54:07.000 They lost track of it.

00:54:08.000 Yeah.

00:54:09.000 But, man, it used to be.

00:54:11.000 And all the stories are if you even touch it, you fall over.

00:54:15.000 Because it was constructed electrically somehow.

00:54:18.000 Yeah, like what is that?

00:54:19.000 What's in there?

00:54:20.000 Why is it giving people cancer if they're really protecting it?

00:54:23.000 I think it's the actual structure of the container it's in that is the problem.

00:54:27.000 That's my thought on it.

00:54:29.000 I could be wrong.

00:54:30.000 But I think inside it they have things from like when Moses was like mana and, you know.

00:54:38.000 Stuff like that, but they manage to keep from, like, for example, they say that Golgotha, the place where the crucifixion happened, it's called Golgotha, the place of the skull, because that's where Adam's head is buried.

00:55:00.000 Really?

00:55:00.000 Yes, and that it's also perhaps the same place, and it...

00:55:07.000 It tells you it's kind of in the same area where Abraham almost sacrifices Isaac.

00:55:13.000 Oh.

00:55:14.000 So it's interesting.

00:55:16.000 Yeah.

00:55:18.000 And the cross, in any artistic depiction, at the foot of the cross, underneath it is the skull, representing the skull of Adam.

00:55:30.000 Huh.

00:55:31.000 So it's interesting.

00:55:32.000 Yeah.

00:55:34.000 Yeah, there it is.

00:55:36.000 Yeah.

00:55:36.000 That's the skull of Adam, huh?

00:55:37.000 Yep.

00:55:38.000 Wow.

00:55:40.000 Place of the skull, memory, myth, in the chapel of Adam.

00:55:43.000 What did you find on the Shroud of Turin, Jamie?

00:55:46.000 Both those articles just asked one person.

00:55:49.000 One researcher thought it was.

00:55:52.000 Another researcher, based off of their research, said it wasn't.

00:55:55.000 Can you put it to the one that thought it was?

00:55:58.000 So the one who thought it was is a nuclear researcher.

00:56:04.000 A nuclear researcher?

00:56:05.000 Jesus Christ.

00:56:05.000 The other one was like an AI artist from Brazil.

00:56:08.000 So I don't know who has the most...

00:56:11.000 So it says, study published in the journal Heritage, the authors conducted dating work on a sample from the shroud, coming to the conclusion that it may be a 2,000-year-old relic.

00:56:21.000 The shroud, which has long been the subject of intense scrutiny, features a faint image of a man some believe is the body of Jesus miraculously imprinted onto the cloth, while the latest study does not discuss...

00:56:31.000 The question of whether or not the artifact was indeed Jesus' burial shroud, specifically the authors did find its age is roughly consistent with his time.

00:56:40.000 Hmm.

00:56:41.000 Oh.

00:56:43.000 Yeah.

00:56:44.000 Yeah.

00:56:45.000 I think, isn't the Smithsonian guy all for it?

00:56:47.000 I don't know.

00:56:48.000 Maybe that's him.

00:56:49.000 I don't know.

00:56:50.000 But, uh, yeah.

00:56:53.000 There's for and against.

00:56:54.000 There's always been.

00:56:56.000 Yeah, always.

00:56:56.000 But it's just...

00:56:57.000 But the image is like...

00:56:59.000 Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

00:57:01.000 Whatever it is, it's pretty crazy.

00:57:02.000 And the fact that they don't know how they made it is also pretty crazy.

00:57:05.000 It's not a painting.

00:57:07.000 Not exactly sure how it even came about.

00:57:10.000 Yeah, it had to have been some kind of intense light.

00:57:13.000 Well, the thought was that even trying to replicate something like that today would be incredibly difficult to do.

00:57:19.000 Sure.

00:57:20.000 It's like an x-ray vision.

00:57:21.000 It's like an x-ray.

00:57:23.000 You really see it in the negative only.

00:57:26.000 Right.

00:57:27.000 It's like a negative.

00:57:28.000 Yeah.

00:57:29.000 Hey, I buy it.

00:57:33.000 But that's not the only reason I buy it.

00:57:35.000 I mean, I think there's other logical reasons why I believe.

00:57:42.000 Like what are those?

00:57:43.000 Oh, okay.

00:57:46.000 Stuff that happens in your own life.

00:57:50.000 The results you get from actually appealing to a power greater than yourself, you know?

00:57:58.000 And, I mean, I don't think it's any secret.

00:58:00.000 I am flawed in the fact that I am, by nature, born an alcoholic, right?

00:58:06.000 I did drugs.

00:58:07.000 I did alcohol.

00:58:08.000 And there was nothing that could stop.

00:58:11.000 Me from doing that.

00:58:15.000 Nothing.

00:58:16.000 So I was really kind of on, you're on a downhill run.

00:58:20.000 So I regard the fact that I was able to appeal to something greater than myself to help me and actually stop me doing that.

00:58:28.000 I think that's a miracle.

00:58:30.000 It is.

00:58:30.000 For me it is.

00:58:31.000 And for many.

00:58:34.000 Well, that is the thing about AA, right?

00:58:36.000 It's a part of the whole process is appealing to a higher power.

00:58:40.000 Sure.

00:58:40.000 It's a spiritual program.

00:58:41.000 Yeah.

00:58:42.000 Because you're suffering your spiritual malady.

00:58:44.000 Yeah.

00:58:45.000 So it's a spiritual cure.

00:58:49.000 And that's the essence, I think, of why it works.

00:58:53.000 Because you can't explain it otherwise.

00:58:55.000 I mean, well, you kind of can.

00:58:59.000 But...

00:59:02.000 I think what you're being asked to do is to think about other people and other things more than yourself because it's kind of an ego disease.

00:59:12.000 Yeah.

00:59:13.000 That is the problem with addiction, right?

00:59:16.000 It's very narcissistic.

00:59:17.000 Very narcissistic.

00:59:18.000 Because you're constantly thinking about yourself and what you need.

00:59:21.000 I need a drink.

00:59:22.000 I need a bump.

00:59:23.000 I need something.

00:59:25.000 Sure.

00:59:26.000 And no matter what you need, it's never going to be enough.

00:59:28.000 Right.

00:59:29.000 Right.

00:59:29.000 So you actually have to appeal to something outside that you consider bigger and better than yourself, which instantly kind of pushes you more in the direction of humility because you're not the center of the universe anymore and that you can't do it.

00:59:47.000 And the first step in any of that sort of stuff is accepting that you are powerless over it.

00:59:53.000 That's the first...

00:59:55.000 That's the most powerful step you can do is that you're powerless.

00:59:58.000 When you realize that, you're like, okay.

01:00:00.000 Yeah.

01:00:01.000 There's fuck all I can do about this.

01:00:02.000 I have to appeal to something better than me.

01:00:05.000 And that to me is a miracle.

01:00:07.000 Yeah.

01:00:08.000 Yeah.

01:00:08.000 Well, it's a very uniquely human thing, the ability to course correct and also just the concept of addiction in the first place.

01:00:15.000 Sure.

01:00:16.000 You know, it's a very uniquely human thing that we all know there's dark roads our mind can go down, and then we wonder, like, what is the purpose of these dark thoughts?

01:00:25.000 What is the purpose of this destructive behavior that we're all prone to in some way, shape, or form?

01:00:30.000 What is the purpose of everything?

01:00:33.000 I mean, why am I here?

01:00:36.000 What's the meaning of this?

01:00:38.000 I'm looking for a purpose, and what is it we're here for?

01:00:42.000 I think, you know, we have to leave some stuff.

01:00:45.000 But you have to leave some good stuff.

01:00:47.000 You can leave plenty of bad stuff.

01:00:50.000 And we're all prone that way.

01:00:54.000 I often think about the human race as a whole.

01:00:57.000 You think about guys like Stalin or Hitler or Chairman Mao.

01:01:02.000 And I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be sharing a cell in the afterlife with those guys.

01:01:08.000 I don't know where I'll be on the ladder.

01:01:12.000 Depends on how you end up, right?

01:01:14.000 Well, that's it.

01:01:15.000 It really is.

01:01:16.000 It's like, you know, and we're allowed to make mistakes.

01:01:19.000 And we do.

01:01:20.000 We are so flawed.

01:01:21.000 And I'm more flawed than anyone, you know.

01:01:24.000 But it's something that you, I think, and it's pretty safe to say I'm in the third act now.

01:01:31.000 You're in act two, right?

01:01:33.000 Gesundheit.

01:01:34.000 But I'm like, I'm in the third act, man.

01:01:38.000 So you have to think about the other side.

01:01:42.000 You have to think about what comes next.

01:01:45.000 Is there a next?

01:01:46.000 Yes, there is.

01:01:47.000 I believe there is.

01:01:48.000 And I think it depends on how you live now.

01:01:53.000 And the beauty of believing is that even for your transgressions you can be forgiven.

01:02:07.000 And you can be redeemed.

01:02:09.000 But it's all up here.

01:02:10.000 Right.

01:02:11.000 It's the true acceptance and understanding of what you've done and what you should do.

01:02:17.000 Sure.

01:02:18.000 You have to look at yourself honestly.

01:02:19.000 Yeah.

01:02:20.000 Yeah.

01:02:21.000 Absolutely.

01:02:22.000 Honestly, you have to be able to accuse yourself and understand that there is a great deal of mercy involved in the fact that I believe that God sent his son down to tell us, okay, you have to be able to accuse yourself and understand that there is a great deal of mercy involved in Ransom you people from your fallen nature.

01:02:46.000 And I'll give you a road map on how to do it.

01:02:51.000 And people do it.

01:02:55.000 There's even people that do it that have never even heard of it.

01:02:58.000 You know, some guy in the jungle someplace, I'm sure.

01:03:01.000 Right.

01:03:03.000 You know?

01:03:04.000 Because the Creator is above the law.

01:03:10.000 I mean, it's an interesting fact to note that the first canonized saint, you know who it was?

01:03:18.000 No.

01:03:19.000 The first ever confirmed canonization as a saint was Dismas.

01:03:25.000 You know who Dismas was?

01:03:26.000 No.

01:03:27.000 He was the thief on the cross next to Jesus. 0.60

01:03:30.000 Oh.

01:03:31.000 And he says to him, you're going to be okay this day.

01:03:35.000 You'll be with me.

01:03:37.000 Unbaptized, criminal, all that stuff.

01:03:40.000 So...

01:03:41.000 Wow.

01:03:42.000 The lawmaker is above the law.

01:03:44.000 So there's a lot of mercy.

01:03:47.000 What about people that never experienced Christianity?

01:03:51.000 What about the uncontacted people?

01:03:54.000 That's right.

01:03:54.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:03:55.000 Somebody in the jungle.

01:03:56.000 Yeah.

01:03:57.000 It's been known that it's called invincible ignorance because they don't know what the truth is.

01:04:05.000 You know?

01:04:06.000 It's possible that they can be.

01:04:10.000 Saved as well.

01:04:11.000 So what are your thoughts on evolution?

01:04:15.000 Wow.

01:04:16.000 Eh.

01:04:19.000 The Darwin thing?

01:04:23.000 Yeah.

01:04:24.000 I don't really go for it.

01:04:26.000 No?

01:04:27.000 Yeah.

01:04:28.000 Ice Age, dinosaurs, you know.

01:04:30.000 What did they turn into?

01:04:33.000 I mean...

01:04:34.000 Things became extinct at some point.

01:04:37.000 I don't think I was some kind of like...

01:04:41.000 You know, legless thing that crawled out of the ocean.

01:04:43.000 I don't think I came from that.

01:04:45.000 I think I was created.

01:04:47.000 Do you think other things were legless things that came out of the ocean?

01:04:52.000 Do you think, like, multi-celled organisms came out of single-celled organisms and there was some sort of natural selection and random mutation and it led to everything else but us?

01:05:03.000 Sure, look at gain of function.

01:05:05.000 Right.

01:05:07.000 You can make stuff happen.

01:05:09.000 I'm sure stuff did happen.

01:05:12.000 But I think it's all part of creation.

01:05:15.000 I think it's all ordered.

01:05:16.000 I think anything left to itself without some kind of intelligence behind it will devolve into chaos.

01:05:25.000 And so there has to be some big intelligence that orchestrates everything.

01:05:29.000 Not that we don't have chaos in the world, but I think that's our own making.

01:05:36.000 But what do you think separates us from all the other creatures?

01:05:39.000 Well, I think we have a soul.

01:05:41.000 We're created with a soul.

01:05:46.000 And, you know, I went to a restaurant last night.

01:05:50.000 It was a steakhouse in Austin.

01:05:53.000 And it was interesting because all the pictures on the wall are pictures of animals that look resentful, like cows and steers staring at you looking angry as you rip into a steak.

01:06:07.000 But I just believe we are higher than those creatures because we have a soul.

01:06:11.000 We have an intellect above theirs.

01:06:13.000 And we aspire to higher things.

01:06:17.000 We have aspirations.

01:06:19.000 Right.

01:06:21.000 And, you know, this is part of why people drink and smoke and do dope and all this kind of stuff is because they're looking for a spiritual experience.

01:06:29.000 They're looking for, like, they actually call alcohol spirits.

01:06:31.000 I mean, they're looking for something higher.

01:06:35.000 And I think we all have that yearning in that we want to be happy, and we want to be at peace, and we want everything to be hunky-dory.

01:06:45.000 So there's this yearning in building all of us for that, to aspire to something greater.

01:06:53.000 And that's why we're inspired by stories, I think, because it's like, you know, hero stories.

01:06:59.000 You know, Joseph Campbell's stuff, the hero with a thousand faces and stuff.

01:07:03.000 It's like...

01:07:04.000 These stories inspire us.

01:07:05.000 I was at a party the other day in Tennessee.

01:07:11.000 And you think, Tennessee, what's going to happen there?

01:07:14.000 It's going to be squeal like a pig. 1.00

01:07:16.000 No.

01:07:17.000 Man, there's some people living in Tennessee.

01:07:19.000 Sure.

01:07:19.000 But like amazing people.

01:07:21.000 And I found myself in a conversation with four tier one dudes, all of who did something extraordinary.

01:07:30.000 And it was that Tom Slattersley guy.

01:07:32.000 It was the Black Hawk Down guy.

01:07:34.000 There was Sean Ryan.

01:07:36.000 You've probably heard of this guy.

01:07:38.000 Yeah, a friend of his.

01:07:38.000 Yeah, right?

01:07:39.000 Yeah.

01:07:40.000 There was a guy called Christian Craighead.

01:07:44.000 You know who that guy is?

01:07:45.000 No.

01:07:46.000 Whoa.

01:07:46.000 And then there was Eddie...

01:07:49.000 They wrote a book about him.

01:07:52.000 Eddie Gallagher?

01:07:53.000 Gallagher, yeah.

01:07:54.000 Eddie Gallagher.

01:07:55.000 I was talking to four of these guys at the same time.

01:07:57.000 And I didn't know who to...

01:08:00.000 Who do you even talk to?

01:08:02.000 But their stories are amazing.

01:08:05.000 Especially, and the one guy I ended up talking to was an SAS guy.

01:08:09.000 British SAS. And he just looks like a bank teller.

01:08:14.000 But he did something extraordinary.

01:08:16.000 And incredibly brave.

01:08:19.000 And with no regard for himself, only regard for other people.

01:08:24.000 And it was like, whoa!

01:08:26.000 You hear these stories.

01:08:28.000 And it's sort of just like it pumps you up.

01:08:31.000 You think, could I do that?

01:08:33.000 Could I be that person?

01:08:34.000 I don't know if I could.

01:08:36.000 In a way, I don't even want to ever find out because you have to be in an extreme situation.

01:08:42.000 But hearing about other people and how they behave in situations that are difficult is very inspiring.

01:08:53.000 There's so many of those stories and through history.

01:08:58.000 Well, that's another unique thing about human beings is that we learn from others in a very extraordinary way.

01:09:04.000 And that's one of the reasons why we like stories.

01:09:06.000 Yeah.

01:09:07.000 Why we like myths and fables, because there's lessons you can apply to your own life without having to actually go through those things.

01:09:14.000 Yeah.

01:09:15.000 Well, that's right.

01:09:16.000 I made a film about that guy, Desmond Doss.

01:09:19.000 You know, I don't know if you saw it.

01:09:20.000 It was like Hacksaw Ridge.

01:09:21.000 It was this film, and it was about a medic who figured...

01:09:25.000 So much killing going on, he's going to go into the battlefield and save lives.

01:09:28.000 And he didn't have a weapon.

01:09:30.000 And he was in the worst place on earth.

01:09:33.000 And he got a Congressional Medal of Honor because he kept going in to the worst place possible and dragging wounded guys out with no regard for himself.

01:09:47.000 I mean, who does that kind of stuff?

01:09:49.000 And over and over again, he didn't just do it once.

01:09:53.000 He did it hundreds of times.

01:09:55.000 He finally got hit with shrapnel and a bunch of other stuff, but he lived to be an old man.

01:09:59.000 But, wow!

01:10:00.000 And it was just pure faith.

01:10:03.000 So, you know, those guys, those kind of stories inspire the hell out of me.

01:10:09.000 Anyway.

01:10:11.000 So, back to this idea of evolution.

01:10:14.000 So, do you believe that evolution exists in animals?

01:10:20.000 Or do you think there's some sort of a...

01:10:23.000 Natural selection process, or do you think that it is all intelligent design?

01:10:32.000 Well, I think everything was created, right?

01:10:36.000 And maybe things do move on and adapt and change through time, but I think that that's a function of an intelligence also.

01:10:46.000 And, I mean, look at the fires in L.A., you know?

01:10:49.000 I mean, what's that going to do?

01:10:52.000 It's going to give me a new house, you know, maybe.

01:10:54.000 Maybe.

01:10:55.000 Or a new place to live.

01:10:57.000 Yeah, something.

01:10:59.000 Yeah, I'm just not totally convinced.

01:11:01.000 I feel it.

01:11:02.000 And I can't really, I'm sorry, I can't intellectually tell you why I don't believe in evolution, but I don't.

01:11:10.000 It's just a feeling.

01:11:11.000 I don't think I was some ape.

01:11:14.000 Or I don't think my ancestors were.

01:11:15.000 I think they had to be pretty smart to survive.

01:11:18.000 So what do you think all these pre-human hominids are that they keep discovering? 0.99

01:11:22.000 Like, tell me what a pre-human hominid is.

01:11:25.000 Like Australopithecus.

01:11:26.000 Oh, right.

01:11:27.000 Or some of the other human-like creatures that never made it, like Denisovans, Neanderthals. 0.95

01:11:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:11:33.000 Stuff like that.

01:11:34.000 Okay, well, they've got something called Zinjanthropus.

01:11:37.000 You remember him?

01:11:37.000 No.

01:11:39.000 Zinganthropus man.

01:11:40.000 And he was like, hmm.

01:11:41.000 He looked kind of like this.

01:11:42.000 But it was like they looked at it and they did some core samples on it.

01:11:47.000 And it was put out there by people advocating evolution.

01:11:51.000 And they discovered that it was a human skull attached to the jaw of an ape.

01:11:56.000 Oh, I do remember this.

01:11:57.000 So it was a hoax.

01:11:58.000 Yeah, there's been some hoaxes.

01:12:00.000 Yeah.

01:12:01.000 But there's also been real stuff.

01:12:02.000 Really?

01:12:03.000 Yeah.

01:12:03.000 You don't think so?

01:12:04.000 Well, maybe.

01:12:05.000 Well, you know, like, I don't know, tell me.

01:12:10.000 Well, what was that one that we looked at the other day that was one of the first pre-humans that buried their young, or buried their dead, rather?

01:12:18.000 It was Homo Ninaldi, what was it? 0.99

01:12:24.000 Remember that?

01:12:26.000 I can't remember how to say it, but...

01:12:29.000 No lady, yeah. 1.00

01:12:31.000 Pre-human, hominid, very small creature that... 1.00

01:12:35.000 Buried their young.

01:12:37.000 Or buried their dead, rather.

01:12:38.000 I keep saying buried their young.

01:12:39.000 They buried their dead.

01:12:40.000 You know, Australopithecus.

01:12:42.000 There's a bunch of different, you know, the Lucy skeleton.

01:12:46.000 There's a bunch of different pre-human hominids. 0.52

01:12:49.000 Yeah, maybe they were monkeys.

01:12:50.000 I don't know.

01:12:51.000 Yeah.

01:12:52.000 Well, they're similar to us, just not where we are.

01:12:56.000 They're on the road to becoming what it means to be a human being.

01:12:59.000 Yeah.

01:12:59.000 I don't know.

01:13:00.000 I don't know.

01:13:00.000 What do you think those are?

01:13:01.000 I don't know.

01:13:02.000 They could be animals.

01:13:03.000 Or...

01:13:04.000 They could be like, look at today.

01:13:06.000 I mean, you can get some mosquito can bite you and your kid can be born with a malformed skull or something.

01:13:12.000 It's like, you know, they have those, you know.

01:13:15.000 Yeah, but this is like a genetic thing.

01:13:19.000 Like they've mapped the genome of these creatures.

01:13:22.000 Oh, they have?

01:13:23.000 They're different.

01:13:23.000 Yeah.

01:13:25.000 Well, I don't know how to explain those, Joe.

01:13:27.000 I don't know.

01:13:28.000 But you do think that human beings were created.

01:13:31.000 Sure, I do.

01:13:33.000 When do you think that happened?

01:13:35.000 When?

01:13:36.000 Probably not that long ago.

01:13:39.000 Really?

01:13:39.000 No, not really.

01:13:40.000 What do you mean by not that long ago?

01:13:42.000 Probably only about 8,000 years ago.

01:13:45.000 Really?

01:13:45.000 Yeah.

01:13:46.000 So what do you think things like Gobekli Tepe are when they find these constructions that are carbon dated to 11,000 plus years old?

01:13:54.000 I question carbon dating.

01:13:56.000 Really?

01:13:56.000 Yeah.

01:13:57.000 Well, that makes things a lot simpler.

01:14:00.000 Well, yeah.

01:14:01.000 There's a lot of money in, you know, claims.

01:14:05.000 Really?

01:14:06.000 Water's there.

01:14:09.000 Well, carbon dating seems to be pretty rock-solid studies.

01:14:13.000 Yeah.

01:14:13.000 I mean, the science behind radiocarbon dating and detecting carbon isotopes.

01:14:20.000 It's like, that's pretty legit.

01:14:24.000 Yeah.

01:14:26.000 I don't know.

01:14:27.000 I can't square it.

01:14:28.000 Yeah.

01:14:29.000 Well, you don't have to.

01:14:30.000 And I don't have to.

01:14:31.000 And what difference is it going to make to me?

01:14:33.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

01:14:35.000 It doesn't make a difference in terms of your experience in this life on Earth.

01:14:40.000 No.

01:14:41.000 Like, you can have your faith and your ideas and live a great life from beginning to end, and it might not suit you to really ponder evolution and all the puzzles and problems.

01:14:53.000 No.

01:14:54.000 It doesn't.

01:14:56.000 Yeah.

01:14:57.000 And I just like, you know, I look at all sorts of stuff like that, like, you know, the icebergs melting and the water overflowing.

01:15:05.000 It's not.

01:15:05.000 Ever have a glass full of ice and watch it melt?

01:15:08.000 Did you ever see the glass flow over?

01:15:10.000 No.

01:15:10.000 Takes up less room, you know.

01:15:12.000 Yeah.

01:15:14.000 The hot greenhouse, whatever.

01:15:16.000 Well, there's a lot of horseshit that's involved in climate change, for sure.

01:15:19.000 I've studied that, and I've had many discussions over the last four years.

01:15:23.000 The problem with anything is that once a narrative gets established, there's a profit attached to the solution to that narrative.

01:15:30.000 Yes.

01:15:30.000 And that's green energy and green energy bills, and there's businesses that are wrapped around there.

01:15:35.000 And then there's also this fear that they love to pump into people about climate change.

01:15:41.000 They terrify the shit out of young people that we're going to destroy. 1.00

01:15:44.000 and climate change, you must act now.

01:15:46.000 And then you become beholden to the political party that is espousing these ideas.

01:15:51.000 And then your enemy is the deniers of this science, even though you don't even understand the science.

01:15:57.000 Yeah.

01:15:58.000 Yeah.

01:15:58.000 And did you see the Washington Post article that they published recently about temperature change on Earth?

01:16:05.000 No.

01:16:06.000 Well, there's a down, like what they've realized is over the last, you know, X amount of thousands of years that the temperature on earth is plummeting.

01:16:16.000 Yeah.

01:16:16.000 And it's dropping.

01:16:17.000 And then when they look at the dips, this is the most important thing for anybody that's really freaked out about climate change.

01:16:26.000 There's no static temperature of Earth ever.

01:16:29.000 There's never been a time where it maintains a temperature until human beings came along and fucked it all up.

01:16:35.000 That is just not real.

01:16:36.000 Before human beings ever existed, if you trust these core samples, there's been a giant rise and fall and this constant dip.

01:16:44.000 There it is.

01:16:46.000 Scientists have captured Earth's climate over the last 485 million years.

01:16:50.000 Here's a surprising place we stand now.

01:16:53.000 Look at the dip at the end.

01:16:54.000 Whoa.

01:16:55.000 That's where we are.

01:16:56.000 That's reality.

01:16:58.000 And then if you look at the course of history, you look at the rise and fall, like, it's never a straight line.

01:17:05.000 Way before human beings ever existed, if you believe these silly people, way before human beings had ever existed, there's always this rise and fall.

01:17:13.000 And this idea that the whole thing is based on carbon emissions from human beings is total bullshit.

01:17:21.000 It's not true.

01:17:22.000 We might be having an effect, but we're having a small effect, a very small effect.

01:17:27.000 And the other things are completely outside of our control, including solar activity, the distance between the Earth and the Sun.

01:17:36.000 You know, there's a lot of factors.

01:17:38.000 There's all sorts of factors involving natural activities like volcanic emissions, you know, which devastate.

01:17:46.000 You know, the entire human race was knocked down to a few thousand people at one point in time because of the Toba volcano.

01:17:53.000 Oh my god, yeah.

01:17:54.000 Yeah, no light.

01:17:56.000 Yeah, no light for years.

01:17:57.000 Good luck.

01:17:59.000 Good luck.

01:17:59.000 And the people that survive are fucking barbarians.

01:18:02.000 The most savage.

01:18:04.000 And then it takes a long time before they can figure out civilization again after that.

01:18:08.000 It's like dinosaurs.

01:18:09.000 They just stop.

01:18:10.000 Mm-hmm.

01:18:11.000 So what are they evolving to?

01:18:14.000 Chickens.

01:18:14.000 I guess.

01:18:15.000 Birds.

01:18:16.000 Raptors.

01:18:17.000 Well, they think a lot of dinosaurs had feathers now.

01:18:19.000 Yeah.

01:18:19.000 That's the newest thing.

01:18:21.000 Yeah.

01:18:22.000 Maybe.

01:18:22.000 You don't think so?

01:18:23.000 I don't know.

01:18:24.000 I need to take a pee.

01:18:25.000 I'm so desperate.

01:18:25.000 Okay.

01:18:25.000 Let's take a pee.

01:18:26.000 Let's take a pee.

01:18:27.000 We'll take a break.

01:18:28.000 We'll be right back.

01:18:28.000 I need to take a piddle.

01:18:29.000 It's a nice picture.

01:18:30.000 That's got to be a moment in your head where you're just like every now and then just go, fuck.

01:18:39.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:18:41.000 It is funny.

01:18:42.000 Yeah.

01:18:43.000 But it was a good picture.

01:18:45.000 The only thing that was going through my head was, okay, I just can't look bad.

01:18:56.000 And I didn't have anything.

01:18:58.000 No grooming implements, so I just tried my best to not look too bad.

01:19:02.000 There you go.

01:19:04.000 Yeah, you talk about humility.

01:19:07.000 Like, what gives you more humility than being publicly humiliated?

01:19:12.000 Yeah, sure.

01:19:12.000 Public humiliation.

01:19:14.000 And you know what?

01:19:15.000 For most people, it is their number one fear.

01:19:19.000 Sure.

01:19:20.000 Is public humiliation.

01:19:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:19:22.000 Public speaking, and because of that, public humiliation.

01:19:25.000 Sure.

01:19:26.000 Yeah.

01:19:26.000 Happens all the time.

01:19:28.000 Because we're so concerned about other people's opinions of us.

01:19:31.000 I guess.

01:19:31.000 Yeah.

01:19:32.000 Because we're not sure of our own opinions.

01:19:34.000 Well, you've been through a lot.

01:19:35.000 Well, so have you.

01:19:36.000 Yeah.

01:19:37.000 I mean, I remember, you know, I think they were giving you a grilling once for taking horseworm medicine.

01:19:42.000 Yeah.

01:19:42.000 Funny.

01:19:43.000 Yeah.

01:19:43.000 Funny how that works.

01:19:44.000 Yeah, funny how that works.

01:19:45.000 Funny how that does work.

01:19:47.000 Yeah.

01:19:48.000 What's really funny is how that was...

01:19:52.000 A part of the demise of mainstream media.

01:19:55.000 Because people were like, well, this is crazy.

01:19:57.000 Are you guys really the news?

01:19:59.000 Like, what is this?

01:20:00.000 Yes, I know.

01:20:01.000 They seem to be complicit with a...

01:20:04.000 A 100%.

01:20:05.000 And, you know, you think, well, why?

01:20:08.000 Well, why?

01:20:09.000 Because of money.

01:20:09.000 I think this is what we were talking about before, that there is good and evil.

01:20:13.000 And sometimes it manifests itself in a very clear and obvious way.

01:20:17.000 And I think that's what that was.

01:20:18.000 That was evil.

01:20:19.000 That was putting people's lives second and putting money first.

01:20:24.000 Well, I don't know why Fauci's still walking around.

01:20:26.000 How is that guy still walking around?

01:20:28.000 I don't get it.

01:20:28.000 If just people understand the history of the AIDS crisis and what that guy did back then.

01:20:33.000 Did you read that book?

01:20:34.000 Yeah.

01:20:35.000 Yeah, I read the book.

01:20:35.000 I listened to it.

01:20:36.000 Yeah, I did too.

01:20:37.000 I drove up to San Francisco, and I listened to it, and I had road rage.

01:20:41.000 Oh, yeah.

01:20:42.000 And it was like, whoa.

01:20:44.000 How is he still there?

01:20:45.000 First of all, people that don't believe it.

01:20:48.000 How come RFK Jr. didn't get sued?

01:20:51.000 How come there's no lawsuits?

01:20:52.000 If there was lies, there would be lawsuits.

01:20:54.000 He'd be publicly humiliated.

01:20:56.000 Instead, they kept that book off bestseller lists.

01:20:59.000 That book sold millions of copies.

01:21:00.000 They hid it.

01:21:02.000 That's when you find out that bestseller lists are actually curated.

01:21:04.000 It's not really bestseller.

01:21:06.000 It's censored.

01:21:07.000 It's all censored.

01:21:08.000 Everything's censored.

01:21:09.000 But that book is an accurate depiction of what Anthony Fauci did during the AIDS crisis.

01:21:16.000 It probably was an AZT crisis.

01:21:18.000 Yeah.

01:21:18.000 More than it was an AIDS crisis.

01:21:19.000 I mean, it's fairly incontrovertible now that he was fooling with gain of function.

01:21:24.000 100%.

01:21:24.000 And, you know, why is he still around?

01:21:29.000 Right.

01:21:29.000 Or at least free.

01:21:31.000 Right.

01:21:32.000 Right.

01:21:33.000 And no repercussions.

01:21:34.000 Yeah.

01:21:34.000 Whatever happened to that story where, you know, the wombat and the weasel got together and they were horsing around and a bat pissed on him with a golden shower.

01:21:43.000 And all of a sudden it was in a wet market.

01:21:46.000 Yeah.

01:21:46.000 Very wet market.

01:21:47.000 You got, you know.

01:21:48.000 Complete total horseshit.

01:21:50.000 Totally.

01:21:50.000 The scientists that we're supposed to trust were pitching that horseshit.

01:21:54.000 It was like the AIDS thing.

01:21:55.000 Some green monkey bit of Qantas Stewart on the ass. 0.99

01:21:57.000 Then he went around the world and got everybody sick.

01:21:59.000 And it was like, you know, ridiculous.

01:22:01.000 If you want to go to the AIDS rabbit hole, look up a guy named Peter Duisberg.

01:22:04.000 Oh, yes.

01:22:04.000 I know.

01:22:05.000 I read that book.

01:22:06.000 Yeah.

01:22:06.000 That is crazy.

01:22:08.000 He's telling the truth.

01:22:09.000 This is the fucking COVID crisis times a thousand.

01:22:12.000 Yeah.

01:22:13.000 I had him on the podcast way back in the day.

01:22:15.000 It was one of the earlier guests that I had.

01:22:17.000 It was like way back in like 2010. It was one of the first times I got openly attacked for someone being on the podcast.

01:22:23.000 They were like, blood is on your hands.

01:22:25.000 I'm like, first of all, no, it's not.

01:22:26.000 It's 2010. Who's dying of AIDS? Zero people.

01:22:29.000 So stop.

01:22:30.000 It's not blood's on your hand.

01:22:31.000 Like if this guy's correct, he's a tenured professor at the University of California, Berkeley, who is like his work on cancer is You know, everybody thinks it's groundbreaking work.

01:22:44.000 Brilliant.

01:22:45.000 Doctor, but he was a heretic. 0.89

01:22:47.000 He was a guy who stood outside of Fauci's doctrine and the narrative.

01:22:52.000 And he said, I don't believe that HIV is what's causing this when all these people that are having these immune systems are all heavy drug users.

01:22:59.000 He's like, I think this is a disease of a decimation of the immune system due to heavy drug use.

01:23:06.000 And then on top of that, you're prescribing this chemical, this AZT that kills people.

01:23:12.000 They stopped using it for chemotherapy because it was killing them quicker than cancer was.

01:23:17.000 I was in the Sydney Theatre Company in the 90s, and I was going to a funeral once a month of friends.

01:23:26.000 They were all dying.

01:23:28.000 It's crazy in the 80s and 90s.

01:23:31.000 And they were all getting AZT. Yeah, maybe.

01:23:33.000 Yeah.

01:23:34.000 I don't know.

01:23:35.000 Well, the ones that were getting AZT, even the ones that were asymptomatic.

01:23:40.000 Like Magic Johnson.

01:23:41.000 They were giving Magic Johnson AZT. He had to stop taking it.

01:23:44.000 Yeah.

01:23:44.000 Because he was making him sick.

01:23:46.000 It was killing him.

01:23:46.000 Yeah.

01:23:47.000 Yeah, I read it.

01:23:48.000 And, like, it's even with RFK's book.

01:23:50.000 And he's an amazing guy.

01:23:52.000 People say, oh, he's kooky.

01:23:53.000 He's crazy.

01:23:54.000 He's not crazy.

01:23:54.000 He's not.

01:23:55.000 He's one of the most erudite, you know, they say, he's an anti-vaxxer.

01:23:59.000 He's not.

01:24:00.000 He's not.

01:24:00.000 He's like, he's a very shrewd.

01:24:03.000 He's never lost a case, I don't think, when he brings something to suit.

01:24:07.000 I don't think he's ever been defeated.

01:24:09.000 That book is not just him.

01:24:11.000 It's him and about a thousand highly qualified scientists and physicians commenting on the whole situation.

01:24:19.000 So when you read it, it's a pretty convincing document.

01:24:21.000 And you're right, nobody sued him for it.

01:24:25.000 It's pretty scary.

01:24:27.000 Well, not only do they not sue him, their response is to try to ignore it.

01:24:30.000 They don't want to debate him on it.

01:24:32.000 They don't want to do anything.

01:24:33.000 No.

01:24:33.000 They want to just ignore it and hope it goes away.

01:24:35.000 But it doesn't go away.

01:24:36.000 And the more people talk about it, the more people read it.

01:24:38.000 And when you do read it, you go, if this is true, what the fuck is going on?

01:24:43.000 And how is that monster still loose?

01:24:45.000 Yeah.

01:24:46.000 And he seems like a monster.

01:24:48.000 The way he talks about things.

01:24:49.000 He just seems...

01:24:51.000 But first of all, there's so many instances of him lying.

01:24:53.000 There's so many, like...

01:24:55.000 Where he said one thing, two years later it turns out to be a lie.

01:24:58.000 Whether it is the mask thing, whether it's the natural spillover, the lies about gain-of-function to Congress.

01:25:11.000 When he was lying to Rand Paul about whether or not they did gain-of-function research.

01:25:16.000 How is that not perjury?

01:25:17.000 How is he not in trouble?

01:25:20.000 Other mysteries, you know.

01:25:21.000 Well, then the Biden administration is now talking about taking that guy and giving him a full pardon.

01:25:26.000 It's like fucking crazy.

01:25:28.000 Yeah, they might.

01:25:31.000 I gave Hunter a pardon.

01:25:33.000 Yeah.

01:25:34.000 But Hunter is like...

01:25:35.000 Hunter didn't need a pardon.

01:25:36.000 Was he indicted?

01:25:38.000 Well, I mean, he was in trouble for tax evasion.

01:25:40.000 Oh, I see.

01:25:41.000 There's a lot of tax problems.

01:25:43.000 He definitely did some uncool things.

01:25:47.000 And then there's the Burisma thing, but...

01:25:49.000 The crazy thing about his pardon is it starts at the time of him being involved in Burisma.

01:25:55.000 So it's from 2011 all the way to today.

01:26:00.000 He pardoned him.

01:26:02.000 It's the biggest sweeping pardon that anyone's ever received ever.

01:26:06.000 And Biden's pardoned more people than anybody ever, too.

01:26:09.000 He was already over 8,000 people pardoned.

01:26:12.000 A lot of criminals on death row and stuff.

01:26:14.000 Well, there's that.

01:26:15.000 But then there's also people that like the kids for cash.

01:26:19.000 Judges, you know, where they were locking up kids and putting them in child detention centers because they wanted money, and they were doing it for kickbacks.

01:26:29.000 Yeah, I saw that.

01:26:30.000 It was a documentary.

01:26:31.000 Yeah, evil.

01:26:32.000 Again, what we're talking about, good and evil.

01:26:34.000 Yeah.

01:26:35.000 Like, these are real things, and rational people that profess themselves to be intelligent and secular, they don't want to believe in good and evil.

01:26:44.000 They don't think that they're—they just think— People do bad things.

01:26:48.000 People have motivations.

01:26:49.000 They do bad things.

01:26:50.000 But they don't want to believe in the concept of good and evil.

01:26:53.000 Because these are biblical concepts.

01:26:55.000 They are.

01:26:55.000 Right?

01:26:56.000 Yeah.

01:26:56.000 And they've been around since the beginning.

01:26:59.000 And people want to pretend they're smarter than the people that sort of embrace these biblical concepts.

01:27:06.000 Right.

01:27:06.000 Or, yeah, I think that goes into evolution.

01:27:10.000 Are we smarter than our grandparents, you know?

01:27:13.000 I don't know.

01:27:14.000 Well, we are about some things, but we can't survive the way they did.

01:27:16.000 Nope.

01:27:17.000 They're obviously intelligent.

01:27:18.000 Yeah.

01:27:19.000 It's just they didn't have access to information the way we do.

01:27:21.000 But there's a difference between information and intelligence.

01:27:23.000 Sure.

01:27:24.000 Yeah.

01:27:26.000 I don't have many devices for information.

01:27:29.000 I read books.

01:27:31.000 I read mostly history books.

01:27:33.000 Yeah?

01:27:33.000 Yeah.

01:27:34.000 Oh, I got a recommended book to you.

01:27:36.000 Okay.

01:27:37.000 It's fascinating.

01:27:39.000 And it's called The Frontiersman.

01:27:43.000 And it's about a guy called Simon Kenton.

01:27:46.000 You ever hear of this guy?

01:27:47.000 No.

01:27:47.000 Whoa.

01:27:48.000 And it was written by a guy who's now deceased.

01:27:51.000 His name is Alan Eckert.

01:27:53.000 And it is really about opening up Ohio and Kentucky and places like that with this guy Simon Kenton, who was just an Irish immigrant.

01:28:06.000 He wasn't much for farming and stuff, but he thought he killed a guy.

01:28:12.000 And so he ran away because he thought he'd be indicted for some crime or something, and he ended up being this frontiersman.

01:28:19.000 And it's a very interesting document because you get the history of what was going on at the time when the country was opening up between the settlers and the Indians, you know, the Shawnee.

01:28:34.000 One of the most brutal books I've ever read.

01:28:37.000 Really?

01:28:38.000 Oh.

01:28:39.000 It's very well done.

01:28:41.000 And it has a narrative, but it's reconstructed from all kinds of historical documents and letters and diaries and all this kind of stuff.

01:28:48.000 So I think the guy took about 15 years to sort of compile all this stuff and write it.

01:28:53.000 And the first half of the book is about this guy, Simon Kenton, and the second half is about Tecumseh, you know, the chief.

01:29:01.000 Really great book.

01:29:02.000 One of the most fascinating books I've read.

01:29:04.000 You can't put it down.

01:29:05.000 Really?

01:29:06.000 Yeah, because it's just like little chapters.

01:29:08.000 I'm going to get that right now.

01:29:09.000 Have you ever read The Empire of the Summer Moon?

01:29:12.000 No.

01:29:13.000 The Empire of the Summer Moon is about the Comanche. 1.00

01:29:17.000 Oh, yeah.

01:29:17.000 And it's all about the settling of this area.

01:29:20.000 Right.

01:29:20.000 It's fucking incredible.

01:29:22.000 Again, one of the most brutal books ever.

01:29:25.000 So this is The Frontiersman.

01:29:26.000 The Frontiersman by Alan Eckert.

01:29:30.000 Yeah.

01:29:32.000 I'm going to check that right now, just so that I make sure that I have it.

01:29:37.000 Yeah.

01:29:38.000 And it's all in little bite-sized chunks.

01:29:41.000 And it actually, for a history book, it has this incredible narrative with heroes and villains and all the players.

01:29:55.000 Very interesting document.

01:29:57.000 I'm getting it right now.

01:30:00.000 Oh, yeah.

01:30:02.000 Don't read it before bed.

01:30:03.000 No?

01:30:05.000 No, it gets pretty dark.

01:30:09.000 Why are you so drawn to history?

01:30:12.000 I don't know.

01:30:13.000 I think because maybe I'm trying to learn something.

01:30:15.000 It's been about 80 years since the last big war.

01:30:22.000 Alan Eckert, got it.

01:30:24.000 I think I just want to learn.

01:30:26.000 I mean, my dad went to World War II. He went to Guadalcanal, right?

01:30:30.000 Got bit by mosquitoes.

01:30:31.000 He had, you know, malaria.

01:30:35.000 Which is interesting to note that he used to take hydroxychloroquine when he got a malaria attack.

01:30:39.000 Isn't that crazy?

01:30:40.000 And then when I tried, when my doctor recommended I get it when I had COVID, they gouged me 800. It used to cost him 30 bucks.

01:30:49.000 They wanted 800 bucks for...

01:30:51.000 They were gouging.

01:30:53.000 Well, not only that, when Trump talked about it, then all of a sudden they demonized it.

01:30:58.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:30:58.000 They laughed.

01:30:59.000 Yeah.

01:30:59.000 Which is crazy because it's an antiviral.

01:31:01.000 It works.

01:31:02.000 Yeah.

01:31:02.000 It works on malaria.

01:31:03.000 Yeah.

01:31:04.000 Yeah.

01:31:04.000 And people have been taking it forever.

01:31:06.000 Sure.

01:31:06.000 Pregnant women can take it if they have the flu and it doesn't hurt the baby.

01:31:09.000 It's pretty safe.

01:31:10.000 It's like Ivermectin.

01:31:12.000 But that's what's so bizarre about the time that we just went through because there's more information now available to people instantaneously than ever before.

01:31:19.000 You look it up on your phone and instantly know, oh, Ivermectin, the guy who created it, won the Nobel Prize.

01:31:23.000 Yeah.

01:31:24.000 2014 or something.

01:31:25.000 Yeah.

01:31:25.000 15. Yeah.

01:31:26.000 For using human beings.

01:31:27.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:31:27.000 So what the fuck is going on?

01:31:29.000 Yeah.

01:31:30.000 Like, who's running this thing?

01:31:33.000 And it's harmless.

01:31:33.000 And it wasn't made for horses.

01:31:35.000 It was made for people.

01:31:36.000 And then they used it for horses.

01:31:37.000 Right.

01:31:38.000 Well, it's like saying penicillin is for horses, because they use that on horses, too.

01:31:42.000 Like, that's stupid.

01:31:43.000 They told me it was for moldy bread.

01:31:45.000 That's what it was from, yeah.

01:31:47.000 But, I mean, there's a lot of medications used on animals, too.

01:31:50.000 You can't say it's a veterinary medication just because it's also used on animals.

01:31:54.000 No, that's true.

01:31:54.000 It's been used on literally prescribed...

01:31:58.000 Billions of times on human beings.

01:31:59.000 Yeah, it's like the stem cell stuff.

01:32:01.000 They started using it on horses with emphysematic lung conditions, racehorses, because they would bleed.

01:32:07.000 And they got the stem cells from the umbilical cords of their offspring, injected it into them, and it healed their lungs, which is part of my story.

01:32:17.000 Because I smoked for 45 years, and I couldn't stop.

01:32:20.000 And I read this silly book by Alan Carr, not the little guy who...

01:32:26.000 You know, manage the village people in the caftan, the little fat guy.

01:32:29.000 But no, this other guy, Alan Carr, and he wrote this book.

01:32:33.000 And it's the only thing that made me stop.

01:32:36.000 It worked like crazy.

01:32:38.000 The book made you stop?

01:32:39.000 The book made me stop.

01:32:41.000 I read this book.

01:32:42.000 It was a book called The Easy Way to Stop Smoking.

01:32:44.000 And it's a silly title, right?

01:32:46.000 And it was sad when my son gave it to me.

01:32:48.000 He said, stop smoking, Dad.

01:32:49.000 Here's this book.

01:32:50.000 I left it on.

01:32:51.000 I used to walk past the bookshelf and go, dumb book, dumb title, you know.

01:32:56.000 My doctor said, you have first stage emphysema.

01:32:59.000 And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me.

01:33:01.000 He said, yeah, you've got to get this.

01:33:02.000 I said, I better read this book.

01:33:04.000 So I read the book and I stopped.

01:33:07.000 Right?

01:33:08.000 So it was, I think it was like neuro-linguistic programming or something like that.

01:33:13.000 You read it and you kind of self-hypnotize yourself.

01:33:16.000 But it worked.

01:33:16.000 What did the book tell you?

01:33:18.000 It said, it didn't tell you you're bad, you're going to die.

01:33:21.000 It didn't tell you all that sort of stuff.

01:33:23.000 It was like...

01:33:27.000 I mean, they had things like, maybe I'm blowing it, but they had a chapter where it says, okay, we focused on the negative aspects of smoking.

01:33:36.000 Now we're going to talk about the good aspects of smoking in the next chapter.

01:33:39.000 And then you turn the page and the page is empty.

01:33:43.000 You know?

01:33:43.000 And it's just a trick.

01:33:45.000 It's a mind trick.

01:33:46.000 The whole thing was a mind trick, but it worked.

01:33:47.000 And I don't know why it worked.

01:33:49.000 But it was sort of like self-hypnosis while you're reading the book.

01:33:53.000 And it wasn't a negative thing like, I've got to stop this.

01:33:56.000 It's bad.

01:33:57.000 I'm scared.

01:33:58.000 It wasn't even that.

01:33:59.000 In fact, if I hadn't had the stem cells afterwards, my lungs completely healed from that, by the way.

01:34:05.000 Did they do it intravenously?

01:34:06.000 Yeah, intravenous.

01:34:07.000 And it gets stuck in your lungs.

01:34:09.000 Was this Dr. Reardon?

01:34:10.000 It was Reardon.

01:34:11.000 Yeah.

01:34:11.000 We talked, yeah.

01:34:12.000 Yeah.

01:34:12.000 It worked.

01:34:13.000 Stem cells are incredible.

01:34:14.000 And the fact that you can't get them the way they can get them in overseas, the way you can get it in Panama, where Reardon has his clinic, and Tijuana.

01:34:21.000 They're getting better here.

01:34:23.000 They're getting better, but there's so much resistance because of the FDA. Yeah, sure.

01:34:27.000 And the resistance is purely because of money.

01:34:29.000 Again, it's an evil thing.

01:34:30.000 It's not because they're not effective.

01:34:32.000 It's not because they're dangerous.

01:34:33.000 It's just because of money.

01:34:35.000 I think so.

01:34:36.000 Yeah.

01:34:36.000 And, you know, there's an agenda.

01:34:38.000 I think, you know, pharma wants to keep you on stuff.

01:34:42.000 Yeah.

01:34:42.000 They want to sell you something.

01:34:44.000 So if there's a surefire cure for something, it's not necessarily hailed.

01:34:50.000 No.

01:34:51.000 Well, and then there's also the problem of the media.

01:34:53.000 The media is lockstep in with these businesses that are promoting these things.

01:34:58.000 Yes.

01:34:59.000 And they're not giving you information.

01:35:00.000 They're giving you propaganda.

01:35:02.000 Before they're giving you information.

01:35:04.000 Propaganda is more important to them than information.

01:35:06.000 Yeah.

01:35:07.000 And that's what's crazy.

01:35:08.000 It's like, we're counting on you guys, and you fucked us.

01:35:11.000 You fucked us for four years with this COVID thing, and now you expect us to listen to you about the fucking swine flu or the bird flu or whatever other thing you're trying to freak us out about, which always coincides with some sort of a political event.

01:35:24.000 Like, here it is, the inauguration of the new president, and oh, look at this.

01:35:28.000 There's a new disease.

01:35:30.000 What do we got now?

01:35:31.000 What is it?

01:35:32.000 Do you think there will be?

01:35:33.000 Well, there is.

01:35:34.000 There's this fucking swine flu, H5N1, whatever it is.

01:35:38.000 I thought it was bird flu.

01:35:39.000 Bird flu.

01:35:40.000 One person died.

01:35:41.000 One person in America, first person died, 65 years old with a bunch of comorbidities.

01:35:46.000 Yeah, okay.

01:35:47.000 Which is usually what it is.

01:35:48.000 But by the way, 65 people with a bunch of comorbidities die all the time of nothing.

01:35:54.000 They die of anything.

01:35:55.000 I mean, this is like a car that's falling apart, and you run over a nail, and oh, the nail killed the car.

01:36:01.000 That car was falling the fuck apart.

01:36:03.000 The nail you ran over was the last nail in the coffin, but the thing was falling apart.

01:36:08.000 I got COVID from my gardener, and he had it first, and then I got it.

01:36:13.000 I was like, ah, did I grab the hose?

01:36:16.000 I don't know.

01:36:19.000 I knew the guy for 20 years.

01:36:22.000 And we both went to the same hospital.

01:36:24.000 And he died and I didn't.

01:36:26.000 Jesus.

01:36:28.000 I think we both got remdesivir.

01:36:31.000 Which is not good.

01:36:32.000 Not good.

01:36:33.000 Causes kidney failure.

01:36:34.000 I know.

01:36:34.000 I couldn't walk for three months after I had that stuff.

01:36:37.000 Really?

01:36:38.000 Because it kills you.

01:36:39.000 I found that afterwards it kills you.

01:36:40.000 And that's why I wonder about Fauci.

01:36:42.000 Oh, you should wonder about that guy.

01:36:44.000 Meanwhile, they were trying to stop people from getting monoclonal antibodies.

01:36:47.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:36:48.000 Yeah.

01:36:50.000 They've restricted monoclonal antibodies, which is fucking insane because they wanted to promote that vaccine because they wanted to profit off of it, which brings us back again to evil.

01:36:58.000 Evil's real.

01:36:59.000 It's real.

01:37:00.000 Putting money over human lives is evil.

01:37:03.000 I agree.

01:37:04.000 It's a real thing, and there's a temptation to do it, too, which is even more crazy.

01:37:10.000 I don't believe that there is anything that can afflict mankind that hasn't got a natural cure for it.

01:37:17.000 I think that that has to be.

01:37:19.000 It just makes sense to me.

01:37:20.000 Now, I couldn't prove that, but I just believe that.

01:37:24.000 Yeah.

01:37:24.000 That there's got to be something that cures things.

01:37:27.000 And I'll tell you a good story.

01:37:30.000 Okay.

01:37:32.000 I have three friends.

01:37:34.000 All three of them had stage four cancer.

01:37:37.000 All three of them don't have cancer right now at all.

01:37:41.000 And they had some serious stuff going on.

01:37:43.000 And what did they take?

01:37:47.000 Jesus.

01:37:48.000 They took some...

01:37:49.000 What you've heard they've taken?

01:37:52.000 Ivermectin?

01:37:54.000 Fembendazole?

01:37:55.000 Fembendazole, yeah.

01:37:56.000 Yeah, I'm hearing that a lot.

01:37:57.000 They drank hydrochloride something or other.

01:38:00.000 There's studies on that now where people have proven that they've...

01:38:03.000 People are drinking methylene blue and stuff like that.

01:38:05.000 Yeah, methylene blue, which was a fabric dye.

01:38:08.000 Yeah.

01:38:08.000 Yeah, it was a textile dye.

01:38:10.000 And now they find it has profound effects on your mitochondria.

01:38:13.000 Yep.

01:38:14.000 Yeah.

01:38:15.000 This stuff works, man.

01:38:17.000 There's a lot of stuff that does work, which is very strange because, again, it's profit.

01:38:23.000 When you hear about things that are demonized and that turn out to be effective, you always wonder, well, what is going on here?

01:38:31.000 How is our medical institutions, how have they failed us so that things that do cure you are not promoted because they're not profitable?

01:38:41.000 That they can't control it.

01:38:42.000 They don't have a patent on it.

01:38:43.000 Whether it's vitamin D, K2, and magnesium, you know.

01:38:48.000 Well, yeah.

01:38:49.000 Zinc and quercetin.

01:38:50.000 I do all that stuff.

01:38:51.000 I do all that stuff.

01:38:51.000 Did you do the Bricka thing?

01:38:53.000 Yeah.

01:38:54.000 Yeah.

01:38:54.000 Me too.

01:38:55.000 I lost like 30 pounds, right?

01:38:57.000 It's fantastic.

01:38:58.000 I was talking to Dana and he said, oh, you know.

01:39:01.000 And I said, yeah, I got to do something about this.

01:39:03.000 I'm like, I'm 5'10", 235, you know.

01:39:06.000 That's too fat.

01:39:06.000 Yeah.

01:39:07.000 So I had to sort of roll it back some.

01:39:09.000 Now I'm under 200, which is about where it should be.

01:39:13.000 And it was that Breca stuff.

01:39:15.000 No, Gary's a national treasure.

01:39:18.000 And he gets shit on all over the place, too.

01:39:20.000 Oh, sure.

01:39:20.000 Going to sauna.

01:39:21.000 But I feel better.

01:39:22.000 Oh, yeah.

01:39:23.000 Oh, I do all that stuff.

01:39:24.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:39:25.000 Cold plunge, sauna.

01:39:26.000 I'm ritualistic with it.

01:39:29.000 Yeah, that's good.

01:39:29.000 It's part of my everyday life.

01:39:31.000 I hear your cold plunge is like 34 degrees.

01:39:34.000 I don't understand that, though.

01:39:36.000 I mean, dude, 34 degrees.

01:39:38.000 Whoa.

01:39:39.000 Yeah, it's cold.

01:39:40.000 That's hardcore.

01:39:41.000 Yeah, you get accustomed to it.

01:39:43.000 It, to me, is not.

01:39:44.000 I mean, it sucks.

01:39:45.000 Every time I do it, I'm like, don't do it.

01:39:46.000 There's like the part of me that's like my inner bitch.

01:39:48.000 It's like, oh, we don't have to do this.

01:39:50.000 We don't have to do this.

01:39:51.000 But luckily, the general is stronger than the inner bitch. 1.00

01:39:54.000 The general is always telling, shut the fuck up and get in there.

01:39:57.000 And I just get in there every day.

01:39:59.000 I do like 48, man.

01:40:01.000 That inner bitch is always talking, though. 1.00

01:40:02.000 He never shuts up.

01:40:03.000 No.

01:40:04.000 Never shuts up.

01:40:05.000 Don't ever think that it, like, even though I do it every day, anybody who's like, I don't know how you do it.

01:40:09.000 I don't know how I do it either, but I fucking do it.

01:40:11.000 I make sure I do it.

01:40:12.000 I just, I'm the boss.

01:40:14.000 Yeah.

01:40:14.000 Do you do the saunas too?

01:40:16.000 Oh, yeah.

01:40:16.000 Do you do the red light bed?

01:40:17.000 I have a red light bed, yeah.

01:40:19.000 Yeah.

01:40:19.000 I have a sauna, red light bed.

01:40:21.000 I have a hyperbaric chamber.

01:40:22.000 Wow.

01:40:22.000 I have everything.

01:40:24.000 Hyperbaric chambers are the best, man.

01:40:25.000 It's incredible.

01:40:26.000 Incredible.

01:40:27.000 I've got to get back in there.

01:40:28.000 I feel like I've got more holes in my head.

01:40:30.000 It's phenomenal for just overall recovery, for everything.

01:40:33.000 It's also been shown to lengthen telomeres.

01:40:36.000 They did a study out of Israel.

01:40:37.000 Yeah, they gave people a protocol over 90 days.

01:40:40.000 You do 60 sessions of 90 minutes over 90 days.

01:40:44.000 And it's shown to lengthen telomeres and decrease your biological age.

01:40:48.000 Okay.

01:40:49.000 You just feel fucking great.

01:40:51.000 That makes sense to me.

01:40:51.000 Yeah, you're flooding your body with oxygen.

01:40:53.000 Most diseases, a lot of them, come from a lack of oxygen.

01:40:57.000 You know, your body not having enough oxygen is very bad for you.

01:41:01.000 I used to have a Qigong master. 1.00

01:41:03.000 This is what kind of blows my mind about medicine and about ancient stuff.

01:41:12.000 This guy is from Shanghai.

01:41:14.000 He didn't speak much English, right?

01:41:16.000 A little bit.

01:41:17.000 His wife would translate for him.

01:41:19.000 And he'd come in, and he could, like, point at you, right, from this far away, and you'd feel it.

01:41:27.000 But, like, feel it, like, as palpable as someone pushing you around.

01:41:31.000 It's like...

01:41:32.000 Really?

01:41:33.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:41:34.000 I'm not kidding.

01:41:35.000 What year was this when this was happening?

01:41:37.000 Oh, shit.

01:41:38.000 I met him when I was, like, 40. He only just passed away.

01:41:42.000 Damn, too bad.

01:41:43.000 I'd like to meet that guy.

01:41:44.000 Oh, no, there's people like him.

01:41:45.000 There are others like him.

01:41:46.000 Oh, yeah, he's not the only one.

01:41:47.000 He learned it from somebody, and I think he imparted some knowledge.

01:41:52.000 But, you know, he would get you, and he could, like, point at you and stuff like that.

01:41:57.000 And it makes you wonder, like, how did they build the pyramids, you know?

01:42:00.000 I mean, if he can use his mind and kind of get into quantum physics and move shit around with thought.

01:42:08.000 And with energy, there's actual energy coming out of his fingers.

01:42:13.000 They could have built the pyramids like that.

01:42:14.000 I don't know.

01:42:15.000 Maybe somebody had that down somewhere.

01:42:17.000 Well, I'd like to hear a better explanation.

01:42:19.000 Me too.

01:42:20.000 Well, it was really weird.

01:42:22.000 One time, he was working on me, and he was working on my liver.

01:42:28.000 He said, your liver's blocked, because he looks at you.

01:42:31.000 And if you look at him, he looks away.

01:42:33.000 And his wife engages you while he checks you out.

01:42:36.000 And then he gives you a little body map and he puts X's all over it.

01:42:39.000 And you go, yeah, that's right.

01:42:40.000 I got a pain here and a thing there.

01:42:42.000 You know, he knows where everything is.

01:42:43.000 He knows exactly what's going on.

01:42:45.000 Did you ask him, is he seeing your aura?

01:42:47.000 Like, what is he seeing?

01:42:48.000 Everything.

01:42:48.000 He sees everything.

01:42:50.000 He was an allopathic doctor first.

01:42:53.000 He went to medical school.

01:42:54.000 He could write you a prescription.

01:42:55.000 He could do all that stuff.

01:42:57.000 He was a doctor.

01:42:58.000 And then he saw a qigong master, this old guy, and people were lining up getting cured, and he thought, that's really interesting. 0.99

01:43:04.000 And he learned that on top of being an allopathic doctor.

01:43:09.000 So one day he's at me on my back, and he's pushing, and I can feel my back.

01:43:15.000 At the wall.

01:43:15.000 And there's a poster of a film on the wall, you know, in my office.

01:43:19.000 And I'm looking, and I can see him in the background, and he's like down like this, like, ah!

01:43:24.000 Like kung fu pointing rays of energy at me. 0.99

01:43:28.000 And he hit me.

01:43:29.000 He started yelling at my organ, at my liver.

01:43:33.000 Like, get out!

01:43:34.000 You know, whatever.

01:43:34.000 And I went up the wall, and there was like eight inches of air under my heels.

01:43:40.000 And I was up the wall.

01:43:41.000 And I was like, whoa!

01:43:42.000 And I came back down, and he freaked me out.

01:43:45.000 And I looked at him, and he just went, ah, he said, don't die.

01:43:48.000 It's just science, like that.

01:43:50.000 I said, just science, okay?

01:43:51.000 Just science?

01:43:52.000 Yeah, just science.

01:43:53.000 And I was so freaked out, I went to a priest.

01:43:55.000 I said, is this guy demonic or something?

01:43:58.000 Because he's lifting me off the wall.

01:44:00.000 And the priest was like, he was an old Jesuit, right?

01:44:03.000 A traditional old guy. 0.98

01:44:05.000 And he was a cross between Jimmy Stewart and Elmer Fudd, you know?

01:44:10.000 That's the way he sounded.

01:44:12.000 And I said, is this anything demonic about this guy?

01:44:16.000 He says, whoa, whoa, whoa, did he heal you?

01:44:19.000 Like that.

01:44:20.000 And I said, why, yes, he did.

01:44:22.000 And he said, that's all right then.

01:44:24.000 And he says, I have no trouble with something like that.

01:44:26.000 Because it was within the realm of possibility that somebody had power like that.

01:44:31.000 And that it's inexplicable.

01:44:33.000 But that it works.

01:44:36.000 And it did work.

01:44:38.000 Yeah, he just passed away.

01:44:39.000 He was pretty old.

01:44:41.000 There was a place that, you know, I bought a comedy club out here.

01:44:44.000 And before, the building that we bought was the Ritz Theater on 6th Street.

01:44:49.000 But before that, I was under contract to another building.

01:44:52.000 And this other building was owned by a cult.

01:44:55.000 And this is a crazy story.

01:44:57.000 The cult was awful, horrible.

01:44:59.000 There's a documentary on it.

01:45:00.000 It's called Holy Hell.

01:45:01.000 And this guy who was a gay porn star and a hypnotist, he was a yoga instructor, got a bunch of people in West Hollywood, and then eventually moved them all out here to Austin. 0.78

01:45:13.000 But what this guy was doing, one of the things that he would do to his disciples is he would do a thing called the knowing.

01:45:20.000 And they had to be chosen for it.

01:45:22.000 They had to earn it.

01:45:23.000 And when he would get them and bestow the knowing upon them, he would touch their head and they would have this incredible experience where they said they contacted God.

01:45:34.000 Now, all these people denounced him eventually.

01:45:36.000 They left the cult.

01:45:37.000 They all said he was a con man and this and that.

01:45:40.000 But they all talked about that experience and they said it was the most profound experience of their life, that they really do feel like they came in contact with God.

01:45:50.000 And it's like...

01:45:51.000 What can a person, if a person truly believes and this other person truly believes that they can do this to them and they have this moment and something does happen, is that all inside of us?

01:46:04.000 Do people have ways of pulling that out of you that we've lost track of that we don't know?

01:46:11.000 And even an evil person who's running a cult and manipulating people and exploiting people.

01:46:17.000 He still has this thing that he was able to do to them that even after they've admitted that this guy exploited them, they say that was the most profound moment of their life.

01:46:26.000 That's interesting, isn't it?

01:46:27.000 Yeah.

01:46:27.000 Because I think, yeah, there are party tricks that you can get.

01:46:35.000 Right, but is that party trick, if it really is a pathway to connect you, at least temporarily, with God?

01:46:42.000 That there is a thing inside of us.

01:46:46.000 Well, that's why I went to the priest, because I thought, what's that?

01:46:49.000 Because I'm off the floor.

01:46:50.000 Right.

01:46:51.000 So I thought, I've got to check this out, because this is too weird.

01:46:54.000 And he said, did he heal you?

01:46:56.000 And I said, he did.

01:46:57.000 And he said, that's all right then.

01:46:59.000 Because the guy wasn't trying to get anything out of me.

01:47:02.000 Right.

01:47:02.000 In fact, he never charged me.

01:47:04.000 The first time I went to see him, he charged me.

01:47:08.000 And it was like, okay.

01:47:10.000 And then he never charged me again.

01:47:12.000 And he used to call me when I was sick.

01:47:16.000 Really?

01:47:16.000 I wouldn't call him.

01:47:17.000 He knew when I was sick.

01:47:18.000 He'd call me.

01:47:18.000 He'd say, I need to come see you.

01:47:20.000 I'm like, okay.

01:47:21.000 So he had like some sort of a direct line with your energy.

01:47:23.000 Something.

01:47:25.000 Pretty amazing.

01:47:25.000 Yeah.

01:47:26.000 And he could, oh, this is the other thing.

01:47:28.000 He could teach you martial arts, like quickly, without you having to know what to do.

01:47:35.000 It was a weird thing.

01:47:37.000 He did it, firstly, with my son.

01:47:40.000 He got him for a couple of weeks and he said, I'm about to show you something.

01:47:43.000 I went out there and he blindfolded me.

01:47:45.000 He had these two swords and he was doing all this crazy stuff.

01:47:49.000 I'm like, what the?

01:47:50.000 I said, how did he learn that so fast?

01:47:53.000 He said, it was in him.

01:47:54.000 I'm like, whoa.

01:47:57.000 Then he started to do a thing.

01:47:59.000 He taught me how to harness this energy and to actually begin what seemed to be Almost like involuntary movement.

01:48:09.000 And depending on the hand mode you took, it would create a style of kata or self-defense.

01:48:17.000 I used to do a crude martial art.

01:48:19.000 Not crude, but like a hard martial art.

01:48:22.000 What was it?

01:48:23.000 Kyokushenkai.

01:48:24.000 Okay, yeah.

01:48:25.000 Way back.

01:48:26.000 Kyokushenkai.

01:48:27.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:48:27.000 I think it's Korean.

01:48:29.000 It's Japanese.

01:48:30.000 It is?

01:48:30.000 Yeah.

01:48:30.000 I can't remember.

01:48:31.000 But it's like, you know, I didn't stick with it.

01:48:34.000 But it was...

01:48:37.000 But he got this whole other approach of breathing and visualizations that would actually draw energy into your lower chakras.

01:48:48.000 And then you'd release the energy and it would create this kind of movement.

01:48:53.000 And I showed it to a friend of mine who was a martial artist.

01:48:55.000 And I said, tell me about the footwork I'm doing here and what I'm doing.

01:48:59.000 And he looked at me and he says, that looks really good to me.

01:49:01.000 It was kind of like...

01:49:04.000 What's that really soft kind of martyr?

01:49:05.000 Tai Chi.

01:49:06.000 It was like that.

01:49:07.000 I was doing stuff like that.

01:49:08.000 It was crazy.

01:49:09.000 And it was really a great release.

01:49:11.000 But it was about visualization and breath.

01:49:15.000 Yeah.

01:49:16.000 And the release of that energy that you pent up from all around that you visualized manifesting itself in you.

01:49:26.000 There's got to be something to all that stuff.

01:49:28.000 People have been practicing Tai Chi for a long time.

01:49:31.000 Yeah.

01:49:32.000 They wouldn't be practicing the same movements for all these years if it didn't do something.

01:49:35.000 Yeah.

01:49:36.000 Pretty interesting.

01:49:37.000 Yeah.

01:49:37.000 It keeps people young and healthy.

01:49:39.000 They do it in China.

01:49:40.000 You see groups of people out in Asia sort of out there in groups doing it all in unison.

01:49:46.000 It's a good thing.

01:49:48.000 Exercise.

01:49:49.000 Yeah.

01:49:50.000 What do you do now for exercise?

01:49:51.000 Oh, gosh.

01:49:52.000 I'm terrible.

01:49:53.000 I've come off.

01:49:54.000 I'm falling apart.

01:49:56.000 I got dead guy's parts in my shoulder.

01:49:59.000 I've got, you know, cadaver parts.

01:50:01.000 This shoulder fell apart.

01:50:02.000 This shoulder fell apart.

01:50:03.000 A hip, a foot.

01:50:05.000 It was terrible.

01:50:06.000 I couldn't walk for about a year almost.

01:50:09.000 Really?

01:50:10.000 And so, you know, you fall down.

01:50:11.000 That's partially why I had to go and see Brecca to sort of get the couch potato stuff off.

01:50:17.000 But, you know, I lift weights and I do some, you know, walking and stuff like that.

01:50:24.000 Like, really get your...

01:50:25.000 Heart rate up and stuff like that.

01:50:27.000 So, you know, I'm trying.

01:50:29.000 Hey, I'm 69 years old, so it's getting to be like seven decades worth, you know?

01:50:36.000 Yeah.

01:50:38.000 But I want to stay fit if I can.

01:50:41.000 I banged myself up a little too much in my early life, so I'm paying for it now.

01:50:46.000 And, like, in your 60s, man, you're not there yet, but stuff starts, like, giving up on you.

01:50:52.000 Yep.

01:50:53.000 I feel it in my 50s.

01:50:55.000 How old are you?

01:50:57.000 57. 58 is when it starts, man.

01:51:00.000 Oh, Jesus.

01:51:01.000 That's when I first noticed it.

01:51:04.000 It was like, oh, what's going on with this hair, this shoulder?

01:51:07.000 And I went down to Reardon, of course, who shot it up with stem cells, and it was good for like two years.

01:51:12.000 You just got to keep going back.

01:51:14.000 Yeah.

01:51:15.000 I didn't go back often enough.

01:51:16.000 That's the thing.

01:51:17.000 I think it's just your body's just not going to heal the way it did when you were younger unless you consistently get therapy for that.

01:51:23.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:51:24.000 You're in good shape, though.

01:51:25.000 Yeah.

01:51:25.000 I mean, yeah.

01:51:26.000 So I was in reasonable shape at 58. And I think I'm in reasonable shape now.

01:51:31.000 But I'm just, you know, it's just trying to push the old man off and use various methods to do it, you know?

01:51:38.000 Yeah, that's what it is.

01:51:39.000 Keep the body as young as you possibly can.

01:51:42.000 Yeah.

01:51:42.000 Yeah, and demand a lot from it.

01:51:45.000 That's what I do.

01:51:47.000 I just demand a lot and make sure I recover.

01:51:50.000 I think a lot of it's about meditation, too.

01:51:54.000 You can actually get into a good headspace that kind of cools you out and stops the stress, even no matter what's going on.

01:52:02.000 I'm going to have to do it tonight when I find out whether I still have a home or not.

01:52:07.000 Well, if anything looks demonic, it's the fires in Los Angeles.

01:52:11.000 Yeah.

01:52:11.000 I remember one time we were filming Fear Factor and we had to drive home.

01:52:15.000 We had to cancel the shoot or end it early and drive home because the fires had hit.

01:52:20.000 And this was like a...

01:52:21.000 We were off the 5, and driving home for 50 minutes on the highway, the right side of the highway was in flames.

01:52:29.000 Like Lord of the Rings, like Sauron is coming over the top.

01:52:33.000 It looked fucking insane.

01:52:35.000 It's biblical.

01:52:36.000 It looks insane.

01:52:37.000 And you've got to be careful, too, because you could die.

01:52:40.000 Oh, 100%.

01:52:41.000 If you can't breathe.

01:52:41.000 If you can't breathe, or if the cars in front of you catch fire, and the wind blows this way, and all the cars catch fire, and you can't get off the road because to the right of you is on fire.

01:52:50.000 To the left, he was on fire, and the fire is coming up the highway.

01:52:53.000 Oh, yeah.

01:52:53.000 Yeah, people have died that way.

01:52:54.000 And it can happen in an instant.

01:52:56.000 Yep.

01:52:56.000 I got hung once by mistake.

01:53:01.000 And I was on a film set.

01:53:04.000 And I had my neck in a noose, and I was directing the film.

01:53:08.000 So I'm on a ladder.

01:53:10.000 And I'm like, so, I'll just be hanging here like this.

01:53:13.000 And then the next thing I knew, I was waking up.

01:53:15.000 I was on the floor.

01:53:17.000 And there were all these people standing over looking at me, and I'm saying, what are you people doing?

01:53:21.000 Get to work.

01:53:21.000 You know, it was like...

01:53:22.000 And they said, well, you hung yourself.

01:53:25.000 I said, whoa, are you kidding me?

01:53:27.000 It happens in an instant, and you don't know it.

01:53:29.000 It wasn't painful, nothing.

01:53:31.000 I was just gone.

01:53:32.000 Well, you probably got choked out.

01:53:34.000 Yeah, choked out by the noose.

01:53:36.000 And then they grabbed me by the legs and got the rope off.

01:53:38.000 Jesus.

01:53:39.000 During Braveheart, it was...

01:53:41.000 Oh, really?

01:53:41.000 Oh, wow.

01:53:43.000 It was funny.

01:53:44.000 So I found out what it was like to sort of...

01:53:47.000 Going to the next realm.

01:53:49.000 But of course, we did...

01:53:51.000 I was fortunate enough to work with Horian Gracie 39 years ago.

01:53:58.000 Yeah.

01:53:59.000 You know, he'd just come from Brazil.

01:54:01.000 Well, I remember when you were doing Lethal Weapon.

01:54:03.000 It was the first time I'd ever seen jiu-jitsu in a movie.

01:54:05.000 A leg choke on film.

01:54:06.000 Yeah.

01:54:06.000 He taught...

01:54:07.000 Yeah, Horian taught me the leg choke.

01:54:08.000 He said, now you grab your foot and you...

01:54:10.000 Yeah.

01:54:10.000 Okay.

01:54:11.000 And it was cool.

01:54:13.000 But it was...

01:54:14.000 Now my girlfriend does it. 1.00

01:54:16.000 And she's like a purple belt. 0.98

01:54:18.000 Really?

01:54:19.000 Yeah, I've learned not to talk back.

01:54:20.000 Oh, she's legit. 1.00

01:54:21.000 She's legit.

01:54:22.000 Purple belt is basically a black belt.

01:54:24.000 You just need a little bit more time.

01:54:26.000 Yep.

01:54:27.000 I always tell all jiu-jitsu students, if you can get to purple belt, you are a black belt.

01:54:31.000 You're going to be a black belt. 0.85

01:54:31.000 Oh, she will be. 0.85

01:54:32.000 You just got to stay on that path.

01:54:33.000 No, she is.

01:54:34.000 She's obsessed with it.

01:54:35.000 Yeah.

01:54:36.000 And she's, you know, as I say, I don't talk back to her.

01:54:38.000 I think the purple belt is the hardest belt to get to.

01:54:41.000 It is.

01:54:41.000 Because it's just like in the beginning, you're just getting crushed.

01:54:44.000 That's jujitsu, especially for women. 1.00

01:54:46.000 It's so difficult for women because they don't have the physical strength that the men have. 1.00

01:54:50.000 Yeah.

01:54:50.000 Because you can kind of get away with a lot.

01:54:52.000 If you're a big, strong guy, you can get away with a lot of shit.

01:54:54.000 But then by the time you get to purple belt, like, man, you have to have real technique and you have to have a real understanding of what's going on.

01:55:03.000 She's got a good mind.

01:55:04.000 And I think she's like a chess player.

01:55:07.000 It is like that.

01:55:08.000 Because I know from fighting with her, she wins arguments when she's wrong.

01:55:17.000 Sometimes you let them win, though, right?

01:55:18.000 You have to.

01:55:19.000 You're just like, you've got to walk away.

01:55:20.000 Oh, yeah.

01:55:21.000 Sometimes it's like, oh.

01:55:22.000 You've got to go, okay.

01:55:23.000 It's my second thought of my first action.

01:55:25.000 Yes, yes, yes, yes.

01:55:28.000 But she got the purple belt.

01:55:30.000 That's amazing.

01:55:31.000 Good for her.

01:55:32.000 It's good for her.

01:55:33.000 Yeah.

01:55:34.000 Yeah, a woman black belt, that's an unbelievably exceptional woman. 0.99

01:55:38.000 They can get to that because they have to roll with men and it's just a significant disadvantage.

01:55:43.000 Big dudes and stuff.

01:55:44.000 And she's like, you know, she's done some exceptional things I've heard.

01:55:49.000 So it's like, yeah, it's pretty good.

01:55:51.000 That's awesome.

01:55:53.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:55:54.000 I didn't follow it up.

01:55:56.000 You can still do it.

01:55:57.000 No, I'm a more baseball bat gun kind of guy.

01:56:00.000 I'm in trouble.

01:56:02.000 That kind of stuff.

01:56:03.000 Well, be careful with that in California.

01:56:05.000 You could wind up being in jail.

01:56:06.000 Yeah, that's true.

01:56:07.000 You wind up using it to protect yourself and to lock you up.

01:56:11.000 Yes.

01:56:11.000 Which is also evil.

01:56:13.000 Yeah, that happens a bit.

01:56:15.000 Yeah.

01:56:17.000 Oh, well.

01:56:18.000 Yeah, there's a perverse nature in our society right now with the law.

01:56:22.000 You know, when you look at your life now and you're on your third act, as you were saying, like, what...

01:56:27.000 What do you look forward to these days?

01:56:30.000 Is it creating things?

01:56:31.000 It's creation.

01:56:32.000 Yeah, I think it is.

01:56:33.000 It's about creation.

01:56:34.000 And I figure, ah, I'm pretty average at most things.

01:56:42.000 But I'm good at a couple of things.

01:56:45.000 I know how to tell a story on film.

01:56:48.000 I know how to do that.

01:56:49.000 I don't know.

01:56:50.000 That's a weird place to be.

01:56:52.000 But I think a lot can be achieved by art.

01:56:58.000 An image.

01:56:59.000 And you can convey a lot without actually having to say it.

01:57:04.000 You can do things to affect people emotionally or spiritually even without being overt.

01:57:14.000 I always like to reference just a shot and it's in a Ridley Scott movie, right?

01:57:24.000 And you don't know why it works.

01:57:26.000 Or why it's effective on some level, but it's kind of a profound, effective shot.

01:57:32.000 And it's that first shot in the Gladiator movie where he's running his hand over the wheat.

01:57:37.000 Right?

01:57:38.000 With that music and stuff.

01:57:40.000 Why does that work?

01:57:42.000 I don't know.

01:57:44.000 You can't explain it, but it works.

01:57:46.000 Well, Ridley Scott is a master.

01:57:49.000 Yeah.

01:57:49.000 That's a visionary human being.

01:57:52.000 He sees things.

01:57:53.000 He knows how to shoot.

01:57:54.000 Yeah.

01:57:55.000 Yeah.

01:57:56.000 And that's really good.

01:57:58.000 It's a valid pursuit, I think, in storytelling, if you can do that.

01:58:03.000 Every time he goes out there, it's eye candy.

01:58:07.000 It's a feast for the eyes, you know.

01:58:09.000 Do you have different goals with, like, different projects?

01:58:11.000 Like, obviously, Flight Risk is entertainment.

01:58:14.000 Yes.

01:58:14.000 It's fun.

01:58:15.000 It's entertaining.

01:58:15.000 It's entertainment, yeah.

01:58:16.000 And, yes, different goals.

01:58:18.000 And the other thing, too, is it's like...

01:58:21.000 We're living in a different time now in the film world.

01:58:23.000 I mean, everything's upside down.

01:58:25.000 And you have to compete in a medium where you have less time, less money.

01:58:32.000 Do it fast.

01:58:33.000 Do it now.

01:58:34.000 And it's like, wow, can I do that?

01:58:36.000 I always had the luxury of, like, you know, a big budget and 3,000 people on horses and all this kind of stuff.

01:58:42.000 And was able to take my time with stuff.

01:58:45.000 But I had 22 days.

01:58:50.000 Here you go.

01:58:51.000 Tell this story in 22 days.

01:58:53.000 So I felt the challenge of being able to do that and being able to make something that really got people, like, they could watch it and enjoy it, you know.

01:59:02.000 And I'm glad you saw it.

01:59:03.000 I'm glad you liked it.

01:59:07.000 And that's all I wanted.

01:59:08.000 I just want people to have a nice little ride, a fun ride, entertainment.

01:59:11.000 But yes, you have different goals with things.

01:59:13.000 I mean, the next thing I'm going to tackle is more profound for me.

01:59:16.000 It's going to take more out of me.

01:59:19.000 This is the resurrection story.

01:59:21.000 Yeah.

01:59:21.000 And I even have to change my entire life to do it.

01:59:25.000 How so?

01:59:28.000 You can't go into a project as profound in nature as that without somehow preparing yourself for it.

01:59:39.000 It's like preparing for a fight.

01:59:41.000 It's like you have to be fit for the fight.

01:59:44.000 And, yeah, so you have to spiritually prepare yourself for that.

01:59:48.000 And that's going to take some sacrifice.

01:59:54.000 Because, you know, I profess this and I profess that.

01:59:58.000 I'm not a great example of Christianity.

02:00:00.000 You know, I'm just, you know, I'm flawed.

02:00:03.000 And I make a lot of mistakes.

02:00:04.000 But I have to try and be better somehow in order to go in and make that film.

02:00:11.000 So, what does that mean?

02:00:13.000 I think I know what it means, you know.

02:00:14.000 Well, one of the things that I thought was fascinating was...

02:00:18.000 Reading and listening to Jim Caviezel talk about his experience playing Christ in your film.

02:00:23.000 Yeah.

02:00:24.000 It just truly changed that guy's, the course of his whole life.

02:00:28.000 Well, it was fascinating to watch him work, actually.

02:00:31.000 And most of the time, I just, like, backed away.

02:00:34.000 Because he was doing something that...

02:00:37.000 And I've seen a lot of people portray Jesus in films, right?

02:00:43.000 And I never buy it.

02:00:46.000 You can't quite buy it.

02:00:47.000 Something creeps in the color that's not...

02:00:50.000 Something's not right or discordant.

02:00:54.000 And some of them are pretty good, but you never quite believe it all the way.

02:00:58.000 What was the Willem Dafoe movie?

02:01:00.000 Oh, that was a Scorsese film.

02:01:03.000 Right.

02:01:03.000 What was that called?

02:01:05.000 The Last Temptation.

02:01:06.000 That's right.

02:01:07.000 Which, interestingly enough, I was in a hotel.

02:01:11.000 In the Savoy and I had food poisoning.

02:01:14.000 I was near dead from...

02:01:15.000 I ate a bad oyster in London.

02:01:17.000 And I was dying in a hotel room.

02:01:20.000 And I couldn't even leave.

02:01:21.000 It was the worst.

02:01:23.000 I think it was like salmonella or something.

02:01:25.000 And I saw this cord on the side of the bed and I pulled it.

02:01:29.000 And all of a sudden, a door opened up and a butler like Jeeves came in.

02:01:34.000 He says, yes, sir.

02:01:35.000 And I'm like, whoa.

02:01:36.000 And I said, I'm really sick.

02:01:37.000 I said, what do you think I should eat?

02:01:40.000 Might I suggest some warm consomme and a cup of tea?

02:01:44.000 I said, okay.

02:01:45.000 So this butler took care of me in this hotel.

02:01:48.000 But while I was there, Scorsese calls the room and says, come here, I want to talk here.

02:01:52.000 So I go in and talk to Martin.

02:01:54.000 And he's in his room, and all the windows, the screens are drawn.

02:01:57.000 He's got 18 different TVs going on at the same time in this dark room.

02:02:00.000 And he's talking to me about the last temptation of Christ, and he wants me to play Jesus.

02:02:04.000 And I said, whoa, I'm not doing it.

02:02:06.000 And I sort of got out of there.

02:02:14.000 And then I went back to my room, and they changed my room.

02:02:17.000 Now, this is really weird.

02:02:18.000 They had changed my room and moved my stuff.

02:02:21.000 And they told me they were going to do it, but I forgot.

02:02:24.000 So I'm using a key to get into my room and it won't work.

02:02:28.000 And the door opens up all of a sudden and it's Keith Richards in his underpants standing there staring through me like...

02:02:33.000 And there's a girl in a mink coat walking around it. 0.66

02:02:36.000 Mink coat and nothing else.

02:02:38.000 Walking in the background.

02:02:40.000 And Keith Richards standing there in his underpants with a spliff.

02:02:43.000 And I'm like...

02:02:44.000 I tried to explain that I thought it was my room but it wasn't.

02:02:48.000 It was ridiculous.

02:02:49.000 I'm 26 years old.

02:02:51.000 And he just looks at me like...

02:02:54.000 He shuts the door in my face.

02:02:56.000 I thought, well, that was my meeting with Keith Richards.

02:02:59.000 He slammed the door in my face.

02:03:01.000 It's fantastic.

02:03:03.000 Anyway, but what were we talking about?

02:03:04.000 Caviezel playing Christ.

02:03:06.000 He did something I think that nobody else did.

02:03:10.000 And I think he pulled it off.

02:03:11.000 Because I totally believed it.

02:03:14.000 I believed it too.

02:03:15.000 And it was like, what did he do?

02:03:17.000 He emptied himself out.

02:03:20.000 Yeah.

02:03:21.000 And he invited something else in.

02:03:24.000 And he left it.

02:03:25.000 He didn't try anything.

02:03:27.000 He emptied himself out and he meditated.

02:03:30.000 And he let Christ in.

02:03:33.000 And that role seemed to have had a profound effect on him as a human being.

02:03:38.000 Oh, absolutely.

02:03:39.000 And kind of fucked him up in his career.

02:03:42.000 A little bit.

02:03:42.000 Because people...

02:03:44.000 They associated him entirely with that film, and then they associated him with Christianity, and then they associated him with right-wing politics.

02:03:53.000 Yeah.

02:03:54.000 And then, you know, he got sidetracked by a few guys.

02:03:58.000 I mean, there's some people out there who, like, they get in your ear, and it's like Cassius, you know, talking to a person.

02:04:04.000 Right.

02:04:04.000 And they get you up to make a speech somewhere, and next thing you know, it's like, you know, people throwing eggs at you.

02:04:09.000 Yeah.

02:04:10.000 And you wonder, you know, should I even be saying this?

02:04:15.000 And so he stepped on a bunch of landmines.

02:04:17.000 But, yeah, it did have a profound effect on him.

02:04:21.000 But I think he was already mostly there anyway.

02:04:25.000 And I noticed that because when I was trying to cast it, I thought, who could play this?

02:04:29.000 And I saw the opening shot from Terry Malick's film, which was The Thin Red Line.

02:04:36.000 And it was just a big close-up of Kviesel. 0.85

02:04:40.000 And there was something otherworldly and childlike going on there.

02:04:44.000 In the close-up.

02:04:45.000 And I thought, who's that guy?

02:04:47.000 He's amazing.

02:04:48.000 Of course, you couldn't keep the blue eyes.

02:04:50.000 You had to trade them out.

02:04:51.000 So I changed the color of his eyes to brown and all that stuff.

02:04:55.000 So it looked like he came from the region.

02:04:57.000 Right.

02:04:58.000 But amazing.

02:05:02.000 He already had a quality, an ethereal kind of otherworldliness, space cadet quality.

02:05:08.000 Yeah.

02:05:09.000 And he's still kind of like that.

02:05:11.000 He's still like, wow.

02:05:12.000 Yeah, I wish I had met him, or I haven't met him still, but I wish I had seen him before and then after.

02:05:22.000 Did that role change him?

02:05:25.000 Because it seemed to have strengthened his faith.

02:05:28.000 Sure, it did.

02:05:29.000 He got in real tight with it, and I think he had some experiences while he was doing it.

02:05:35.000 He suffered a little.

02:05:38.000 Didn't he get struck by lightning?

02:05:40.000 Well, there's two times there was these lightning strikes happening on the set, you know?

02:05:45.000 And there was this guy with him.

02:05:47.000 He was a young fella, one of the assistants on the film.

02:05:50.000 His name was Jan.

02:05:52.000 And old Jan was like, he's like 6'2", Italian, northern Italian guy, you know?

02:05:59.000 If he tripped in the street, women would slide under him, you know? 0.68

02:06:02.000 It was that kind of stuff.

02:06:03.000 The guy was like a babe magnet, right? 0.98

02:06:07.000 And I think he was taking full advantage of the gifts he had.

02:06:10.000 But he got hit by lightning the first time, getting people.

02:06:14.000 We were out on the hill and there was a lightning storm, like with the crosses and stuff.

02:06:18.000 Oh, Jesus.

02:06:19.000 And this guy called Chieppo, he was a grip, and he never spoke a word to me the whole time.

02:06:25.000 He's just a quiet kind of guy.

02:06:28.000 And I figured, oh, he doesn't know English.

02:06:30.000 But he came up to me, and in perfect English he said, you know.

02:06:34.000 I think you should get all the people off the hill.

02:06:36.000 We could be struck by lightning.

02:06:38.000 And I thought, oh, that's a good idea.

02:06:39.000 Let's get off the hill.

02:06:40.000 So we're moving off the hill.

02:06:42.000 Everybody's getting off.

02:06:43.000 And this kid gets hit through the umbrella.

02:06:46.000 This yawn guy.

02:06:47.000 He gets zapped by lightning, right?

02:06:50.000 But he's 22. And he goes to the disco all night.

02:06:53.000 You know, he's doing the whole, you know, 22 experience.

02:06:58.000 And he comes back the next day.

02:07:00.000 He's like, yeah, it was great.

02:07:01.000 And then he was with Jim the second time it happened.

02:07:04.000 But this time, I found him in a Fiat Bambino with his knees up around his ears, like waiting for the third strike.

02:07:11.000 He was like, this just doesn't happen twice in the third strike.

02:07:15.000 And he says, I have to change my life.

02:07:19.000 So it was pretty funny.

02:07:21.000 Filming that movie must have had a profound effect on a lot of people, right?

02:07:24.000 It did, yeah.

02:07:25.000 Because you were doing something that wasn't just a film.

02:07:29.000 It was...

02:07:30.000 Yeah, verite kind of.

02:07:32.000 Yeah.

02:07:32.000 And it was strengthening people's faith.

02:07:36.000 That film was, I mean, profound success.

02:07:39.000 And a lot of people dismissed the idea of it even.

02:07:41.000 Yes.

02:07:42.000 You know, especially in Hollywood.

02:07:43.000 I mean, you had to self-fund all that, right?

02:07:45.000 Yes, it was self-funded.

02:07:46.000 And it was a very strange...

02:07:49.000 Experience that one because I put the money in.

02:07:51.000 I thought, well, maybe I'll break even.

02:07:55.000 Then I got these messages back.

02:07:56.000 All the majors wouldn't distribute it.

02:07:59.000 So I was like, nobody will distribute it.

02:08:01.000 Okay, I guess I've lost the money, but it was worth the experience.

02:08:07.000 So one guy was left in the room at the end when the dust settled.

02:08:12.000 It was some guy.

02:08:13.000 He said, I'll distribute.

02:08:14.000 And he had a little company called New Market, and they distributed like one or two films before.

02:08:21.000 And I think it was a Charlize Theron movie called "A Monster" about that horrible serial killer.

02:08:27.000 And he said, I'll do it.

02:08:30.000 And, you know, it was just really basics.

02:08:32.000 I went and I met the exhibitors.

02:08:36.000 And, you know, and this guy was like the distributor.

02:08:39.000 This little company was just him and a toothless dog and a fax and an assistant.

02:08:44.000 And it was like, OK. What's all the smoke and mirrors about this between the distribution and exhibition?

02:08:50.000 I made handshake deals with all the exhibitors.

02:08:53.000 Yeah, we'll show this.

02:08:55.000 I said, okay.

02:08:56.000 And then we put it out there.

02:08:58.000 And it went out.

02:09:00.000 Nobody expected it to do much, but it did phenomenally well.

02:09:03.000 And there was this kind of thing in the town that said, did anyone just see that?

02:09:12.000 Did anyone just see what that guy did?

02:09:15.000 Can't let that guy do that again.

02:09:17.000 And we don't want anyone doing that.

02:09:20.000 You know, because it sort of walked around the entire system.

02:09:23.000 Yes.

02:09:24.000 And scored.

02:09:26.000 Right.

02:09:27.000 So there was two things.

02:09:28.000 There was resistance to the Christianity aspect of it and promotion of Christianity.

02:09:32.000 And then there was resistance to the fact that you went outside the system.

02:09:35.000 Well, I had no alternative.

02:09:37.000 Right.

02:09:38.000 Because no major would back it.

02:09:39.000 Because of the Christianity aspect of it. 0.54

02:09:41.000 I guess, yeah.

02:09:42.000 Well, Rupert Murdoch said, you know, he wanted to, and then he said...

02:09:46.000 And then somebody advised him and said he'd be out of business in five years.

02:09:50.000 Rupert Murdoch.

02:09:51.000 Wow.

02:09:52.000 In five years if he distributed that.

02:09:54.000 Yeah.

02:09:54.000 And I was like, wow, if he's scared, I'm like, I'm going to crash and burn here.

02:09:59.000 But it actually did all right.

02:10:01.000 It did phenomenal.

02:10:02.000 Yeah.

02:10:02.000 And then, again, I tried to...

02:10:06.000 I went with the studio on Apocalypto, but...

02:10:09.000 Yeah, that didn't work out so well.

02:10:10.000 It didn't?

02:10:11.000 No.

02:10:12.000 In what way?

02:10:12.000 Well, it was interesting.

02:10:14.000 The film was a film with, it had no stars.

02:10:20.000 It was in another language.

02:10:22.000 And it came out on a weekend with another film that had Leo in it.

02:10:28.000 And another film that had Cameron Diaz in it.

02:10:31.000 And so those three films came out on the same weekend.

02:10:35.000 And the one with no stars and without the language.

02:10:38.000 Won the weekend, monetarily.

02:10:40.000 It won the box office by a narrow margin on the other two.

02:10:46.000 And the second week out, Disney pulled the screens.

02:10:52.000 Really?

02:10:53.000 Yeah.

02:10:54.000 So I thought, oh, that's funny.

02:10:55.000 Well, screens are gone.

02:10:59.000 I guess there's another agenda.

02:11:01.000 Because that was another self-funded one.

02:11:03.000 Did they pull the screens because they had movies that they had already made deals with?

02:11:06.000 I think so.

02:11:07.000 But, you know, it's just politics, and I think perhaps the distribution deal on that wasn't as good as something else.

02:11:18.000 So it's all business.

02:11:19.000 It's a phenomenal movie, though.

02:11:21.000 It's a great film, yeah.

02:11:22.000 And it did better afterwards.

02:11:24.000 In DVD and streaming and all that?

02:11:27.000 Yeah, it did well.

02:11:28.000 Yeah.

02:11:29.000 I watched it again like two years ago.

02:11:31.000 I hadn't seen it in a while and I watched it again and I forgot a bunch of aspects of it.

02:11:35.000 God damn, it's a good movie.

02:11:37.000 It's just primal.

02:11:38.000 Yes.

02:11:39.000 And I think, I love primitive stuff, you know.

02:11:43.000 And primal emotions.

02:11:44.000 I mean, basically it's a guy just trying to get back home to save his wife and kid.

02:11:48.000 And he's got a lot of obstacles in the way.

02:11:51.000 Like jaguars and bad guys chasing him and trying to skin him and trying to rip his heart out.

02:11:57.000 It's pretty cool.

02:11:58.000 Yeah, it's pretty cool.

02:11:59.000 And I sat in a room with my assistant.

02:12:02.000 He said, what do you want to do next?

02:12:03.000 Chase movie?

02:12:03.000 He said, well, so we found out where the Mayan canoes and Columbus and all that.

02:12:08.000 And then we just started making the story up in the room.

02:12:11.000 And we wrote it.

02:12:12.000 Wow.

02:12:14.000 Some assistant, man.

02:12:16.000 He actually wrote.

02:12:17.000 He actually tapped it out.

02:12:19.000 Crazy.

02:12:21.000 So when you're making this Resurrection movie now, you also have this...

02:12:29.000 Obligation.

02:12:29.000 You're doing a very similar thing that you were doing with the Passion of the Christ, where this is a profound story.

02:12:36.000 Yes.

02:12:38.000 When you put something like that together, how do you choose who's going to be the next Jesus?

02:12:43.000 You use him again.

02:12:45.000 Caviezel.

02:12:45.000 Yeah, I know it's 20 years later.

02:12:47.000 It's 20 years later, but it's...

02:12:49.000 Yeah, but it's the right guy.

02:12:50.000 Yeah, but it's supposed to be three days later, but he got 20 years older.

02:12:55.000 And I think I have to use a few techniques that they've started to get really good with the CGI. Yeah.

02:13:04.000 Oh, they can do amazing things now.

02:13:05.000 You can actually get some of the same people.

02:13:08.000 By the time you film it, it'll be even better.

02:13:10.000 Yeah.

02:13:10.000 When are you going to start filming?

02:13:12.000 I'm hoping next year sometime.

02:13:17.000 There's a lot required because it is, I'll just tell you this, it's an acid trip.

02:13:23.000 When we wrote it, it is like...

02:13:26.000 I've never read anything like it.

02:13:29.000 And my brother and I and Randall all sort of congregated on this, so there's some good heads put together, but there's some crazy stuff.

02:13:41.000 And I think in order to really tell the story properly, you have to start with the fall of the angels, right?

02:13:51.000 Yeah.

02:13:52.000 Which is you're in another place.

02:13:53.000 You're in another realm.

02:13:56.000 You need to go to hell.

02:13:58.000 You need to go to Sheol.

02:14:00.000 So you're going to have hell?

02:14:01.000 You're going to have Satan?

02:14:02.000 All that?

02:14:03.000 Whoa.

02:14:04.000 You've got to have his origin.

02:14:07.000 How do you depict that?

02:14:11.000 This is a good question.

02:14:12.000 And I think I have ideas about how to do that.

02:14:18.000 And ideas about how to We evoke things and emotions in people from the way you depict it and the way you shoot it.

02:14:28.000 So I've been thinking about it for a long time.

02:14:32.000 So it's not going to be easy and it's going to require a lot of planning.

02:14:38.000 And I'm not wholly sure I can pull it off, to tell you the truth.

02:14:43.000 It's really super ambitious.

02:14:46.000 But I'll take a crack at it.

02:14:48.000 Because that's what you've got to do, right?

02:14:49.000 Walk up to the plate, right?

02:14:52.000 I think I can get it.

02:14:56.000 But it's not about me.

02:14:58.000 It's about something else.

02:15:00.000 Well, if anybody can do it, you can do it.

02:15:02.000 Well, I hope so.

02:15:04.000 It's trying to find the way in that's not cheesy or obvious, but that actually it's almost like a magic trick in a sense.

02:15:17.000 It's diversion.

02:15:21.000 Obfuscate this, show that.

02:15:24.000 Look over here.

02:15:26.000 Do you have a title?

02:15:29.000 Yeah, it's just like The Resurrection of the Christ.

02:15:34.000 So that's a title.

02:15:36.000 And, yeah, it's very ambitious.

02:15:44.000 It took a long time to write.

02:15:45.000 It's really ambitious and it goes from the fall of the angels to the death of the last apostle.

02:15:50.000 Do you have a start date?

02:15:52.000 I don't have a start date.

02:15:53.000 I just have to begin pre-production and see what happens.

02:15:58.000 And it's just going to roll in its own time.

02:16:02.000 It's taking its own time.

02:16:03.000 I thought it was late.

02:16:04.000 I thought, oh, it's taking too long.

02:16:05.000 It's taking too long.

02:16:06.000 But it's probably just right.

02:16:08.000 Yeah.

02:16:09.000 It's when it's supposed to be.

02:16:11.000 Yeah.

02:16:12.000 Well, if you believe that, that's true.

02:16:14.000 Yeah.

02:16:16.000 I don't know.

02:16:17.000 I hope you're right.

02:16:17.000 I think I'm right.

02:16:19.000 My instincts are that I'm right.

02:16:21.000 And if I was going to trust anybody with that story, it would be you.

02:16:24.000 Yeah.

02:16:25.000 I don't know.

02:16:26.000 It's a massive thing.

02:16:28.000 And theologically, it's something that you have to really look at and make correlations that ring true. it's something that you have to really look at and Mm.

02:16:48.000 Because it's not all written.

02:16:50.000 Do you consult with someone, like a biblical scholar?

02:16:53.000 Oh yeah.

02:16:54.000 Oh my goodness, yeah.

02:16:56.000 And of course, there's your own thing that comes into it from having read the book a few times.

02:17:05.000 You read the book a few times and it's amazing.

02:17:10.000 How your memory, how there's these recessive files somewhere in the background, how you can correlate this piece to that piece over there.

02:17:17.000 And that's important because juxtaposition is everything with this story.

02:17:22.000 And what it means in a bigger picture.

02:17:28.000 Yeah.

02:17:29.000 So it's hard to explain, but it's quite involved.

02:17:33.000 Yeah, I can only imagine.

02:17:35.000 Yeah.

02:17:36.000 I don't know that you can do it in a foreign language because the concepts are too difficult now.

02:17:41.000 So you may have to resort to the vernacular so that that at least is clear.

02:17:49.000 Is that up for debate right now with you?

02:17:52.000 Yeah, it is.

02:17:52.000 I'm thinking like, eh.

02:17:53.000 But look, have you seen these apps now where they have this AI stuff where the guy's talking German and then he switches to French and then he's Spanish and then Chinese?

02:18:02.000 Have you seen that?

02:18:04.000 And his mouth moves?

02:18:05.000 It's the same voice.

02:18:06.000 I mean, it's crazy what they do.

02:18:08.000 So are you going to use that kind of a tool, do you think?

02:18:11.000 You could.

02:18:12.000 Will you begin it in Aramaic or in...

02:18:16.000 Maybe, yeah.

02:18:17.000 Aramaic is really the kick, isn't it?

02:18:19.000 But, you know, I think I've written it in English, but I wrote the last one in English, too, and translated it.

02:18:29.000 And then the people had to learn to speak it, because I think there's only about 400 people that actually speak Aramaic still.

02:18:37.000 Wow.

02:18:37.000 And apparently they understood it, so I was happy about that.

02:18:40.000 Wow.

02:18:40.000 So that was good.

02:18:42.000 400,000 people, sorry.

02:18:44.000 Oh.

02:18:45.000 In the world.

02:18:45.000 That makes more sense.

02:18:46.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:18:46.000 Sorry.

02:18:47.000 400 people.

02:18:48.000 I've like preserved those 400 people.

02:18:51.000 Yeah.

02:18:51.000 Not many people speak in Latin still, but that's quite well known.

02:18:56.000 Well, I can't wait to see it, man.

02:18:58.000 And I just want to say I appreciate you very much.

02:19:02.000 All the stuff that you've done.

02:19:03.000 You've made some really awesome pieces in your life.

02:19:07.000 You really have.

02:19:08.000 Thank you.

02:19:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:19:10.000 Done some great stuff.

02:19:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:19:12.000 I'm blown away by...

02:19:14.000 Where you got to with this, which is like, didn't you start off just smoking a spliff on a couch with a guy?

02:19:22.000 Yeah.

02:19:23.000 Okay.

02:19:24.000 Yeah.

02:19:24.000 It's amazing.

02:19:25.000 Yeah, it's pretty bizarre.

02:19:26.000 Yeah.

02:19:27.000 I'm not exactly sure how it happened.

02:19:29.000 No.

02:19:30.000 That's good.

02:19:30.000 I just kind of kept doing it.

02:19:31.000 Yeah, okay.

02:19:33.000 Yeah.

02:19:33.000 Yeah, I'm a fan.

02:19:34.000 Thank you.

02:19:35.000 I watch it all the time.

02:19:36.000 Thank you.

02:19:37.000 There was no plan to it, I'll tell you that.

02:19:39.000 No.

02:19:41.000 There still kind of isn't.

02:19:42.000 I still kind of do it the same way.

02:19:43.000 Yeah, okay.

02:19:44.000 Every day you wake up?

02:19:46.000 Yeah, I just look at my phone.

02:19:48.000 I go online.

02:19:49.000 I say, who do I want to talk to?

02:19:50.000 Yeah.

02:19:51.000 This guy might be interesting.

02:19:52.000 Yeah.

02:19:53.000 Okay.

02:19:54.000 That's really it.

02:19:55.000 Who's next?

02:19:56.000 You get some pretty interesting people.

02:19:57.000 Yeah.

02:19:59.000 Yeah, I was amazed at that...

02:20:01.000 I can't remember his name now.

02:20:05.000 Terrence, what?

02:20:06.000 He's all into...

02:20:07.000 Terrence Howard?

02:20:08.000 Yeah.

02:20:08.000 Yeah, the actor?

02:20:09.000 Yeah.

02:20:10.000 Brilliant guy.

02:20:10.000 He had a bunch of stuff going on.

02:20:12.000 I was like, whoa.

02:20:12.000 Yeah.

02:20:13.000 Oh, he's out there.

02:20:14.000 Yeah.

02:20:15.000 Yeah, he's out there.

02:20:16.000 But, I mean, you have to be, to be one of those guys.

02:20:19.000 You do.

02:20:20.000 Well, listen, brother, thank you very much for everything.

02:20:22.000 Thank you.

02:20:23.000 Appreciate you coming in here.

02:20:23.000 Yeah, thanks.

02:20:24.000 Thank you.

02:20:26.000 Your new movie's great, and all your stuff's great.

02:20:28.000 I'm a big fan.

02:20:29.000 Yeah, tickets on sale today.

02:20:31.000 Yeah.

02:20:31.000 When does it come out?

02:20:32.000 Oh, God, on the...

02:20:34.000 25th?

02:20:34.000 24th, 25th.

02:20:35.000 Yeah, 24th.

02:20:36.000 Okay.

02:20:37.000 So soon.

02:20:38.000 Yeah.

02:20:39.000 It's fun.

02:20:39.000 It is fun.

02:20:40.000 I enjoyed it.

02:20:42.000 Thank you very much.

The Joe Rogan Experience - January 09, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2254 - Mel Gibson

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