In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, I chat with computer scientist, author, and author of the book "My Big Toe: The Story of How I Became a Computer Scientist" about his journey to becoming a computer scientist and how he became a computer programmer.
00:00:57.000I think people have suggested it over the years, your books.
00:00:59.000And then I started reading one and I got very interested in it.
00:01:04.000I was like, wow, this is pretty crazy.
00:01:07.000Let's just get people to the beginning of My Big Toe.
00:01:11.000How did you first begin with the research?
00:01:16.000Well, actually it all started while I was...
00:01:21.000In graduate school, working on my Ph.D., and I passed all my tests and everything, so I was doing research.
00:01:31.000And the research I did was experimental nuclear, but it was low-energy nuclear.
00:01:37.000And we had this big, like, four- or five-story-tall Van de Graaff generator that produced the high-speed particles.
00:01:45.000Now, that's different from the high-energy.
00:01:48.000Particle, which is hugely expensive, and you wait in line for long times to get on one of those accelerators, but this was owned by the university.
00:01:58.000And when that machine was working, you took data.
00:02:03.000And if you were awake for three days in a row taking data, well, that was just one of the prices you paid, because if you stopped, oh, I got to go to bed.
00:02:11.000There's a good chance that the machine would break and it wouldn't be working when you got back.
00:02:16.000So if it was working, you stayed with it.
00:02:18.000And I saw this ad on the door that said, learn how to meditate.
00:02:21.000And it had a bullet point, bullet point.
00:02:23.000And one of them jumped out at me and said, you can get by with less sleep.
00:02:29.000So I went and took my banana and paid $25, a special student price, and learned how to meditate.
00:02:39.000It turned out it was a natural for me.
00:02:41.000The very first time I tried, I thought I had been sitting there for maybe 10, 15 minutes, got up when somebody tapped me and said, it's time to go.
00:04:06.000I'd had some things bomb and didn't know why, and I was searching through my card deck, you know, if you can think back that far when computers were fed by punch cards.
00:04:16.000And it was really hard to debug because, you know, some of the problems weren't even real problems with your code, but the hole was a little off-center.
00:04:27.000Card punches were all mechanical things, and they wore out.
00:04:30.000And, you know, they had cams and gears and stuff, and they could punch off a little off-center, and the machine would throw it out.
00:04:36.000And all you'd get is a message that says, your job didn't run, you know?
00:07:06.000If it's real, wow, because I'd had this other experience and I knew things of the mind could be, you know, were real.
00:07:13.000This episode is brought to you by Visible.
00:07:15.000You know how most wireless plans feel like they're designed to confuse you with, like, hidden fees, weird subcharges, family plans you don't even want?
00:10:28.000And everybody knows it's impossible, so you don't go around talking about people about things that are impossible happening to you because that's not...
00:11:50.000So when I got this job and they mentioned Bob Monroe, I'd never heard of him.
00:11:54.000But I read the book, but I was thinking, wow, now that's interesting, because at that point, I knew the mind could do some very unusual things.
00:12:02.000And I was lucky that they found out that he was only about a 45-minute drive from where I was working, and we all got in a car one day and went out to see Bob Monroe.
00:12:13.000And my point was, is this guy nuts or what?
00:12:17.000Is he making money by telling stories, or is he real?
00:13:45.000He started playing with it, see where he could go, what he could do, what he could find out.
00:13:51.000His books that he wrote were all about his experiences, and his books are just like a diary.
00:13:58.000He'd go out of body, and I was going out to the lab like 15, 20 hours a week, spending with him, and he'd tell me about what he just saw the night before, that kind of thing.
00:14:09.000So he was doing it, and he was taking notes, writing it down.
00:17:03.000And he wrote that in his books, and now there's like, you know, half a million people lying in their beds, you know, going like this, trying to roll out.
00:17:12.000But that was Bob's metaphor for his process.
00:17:17.000And there's all sorts of processes, but all these processes are just nothing but tools.
00:18:53.000The process is entirely consciousness.
00:18:59.000And what happens is you just shift your mind to a different data stream.
00:19:08.000In other words, our reality, well, maybe I've got to start in the beginning, go right to the bottom line, and nobody will understand it, and they'll think it's a little weird, but we can backfill.
00:21:10.000We've done the science very meticulously and we can discuss that too.
00:21:14.000But this is the way it works and this is the big paradigm shift that the sciences have been looking for for the last hundred years since quantum mechanics was started and everybody realized that they didn't really understand the world after all.
00:22:31.000It turns out all things paranormal, like out-of-body is a paranormal thing, all things paranormal happen with the intuitive side of your mind, not the intellectual side.
00:22:46.000And as much as people try to get there from the intellectual side, they fail.
00:23:28.000But if you do work at it, if you put...
00:23:31.000Serious energy over a serious amount of time into that intuitive side, you find out that it's just as reliable, just as accurate as the intellectual side.
00:23:49.000Except there's a big difference between them.
00:23:51.000On the intellectual side, you've got logic.
00:24:57.000On that side, it takes, just like the intellectual side, a lot of practice and a lot of work in order to hone that and educate it and understand it.
00:25:14.000There is information available to you.
00:25:16.000There's a database out there, and that database is required.
00:25:22.000The reason it's there is because it's required for the rendering.
00:25:26.000You know, you have the larger consciousness system, configures a piece of itself to be the computer, and that computer, in order to compute this reality, needs information, needs data.
00:25:38.000So it creates a database from which it takes information and helps it create.
00:25:44.000So the rendering engine needs that, but you are really a piece of consciousness.
00:25:49.000That information is in the consciousness system.
00:25:52.000You're a piece of that, so you have access to it.
00:25:55.000The Hindus called that the Akashic Records.
00:27:02.000There's a lot of things that come to people intuitively.
00:27:06.000Most of the best art and the best writing all comes out of that intuitive channel, where the artist has learned to work in that intuitive channel.
00:27:50.000No, that's not data out of a database.
00:27:52.000There's another attribute of this system.
00:27:56.000It's kind of our feedback for us to see how we're doing.
00:27:59.000And that is that in this database, things are in terms of probability.
00:28:08.000Probability is a thing that will happen.
00:28:10.000What are the possibilities and all the probabilities of those possibilities?
00:28:18.000That's how the database is constructed.
00:28:21.000And it's constructed about the future.
00:28:25.000In the next 10 to the minus 44 seconds, what are the possibilities and what are the probabilities of each possibility?
00:28:32.000And the way the system works is that it takes a random draw from that probability distribution of the possibilities and that's what happens next.
00:28:46.000Understanding that lets you understand quantum physics and how it works and lets you understand that the silly thing about, oh, the probability distribution collapses to a physical particle, is that doesn't make any sense.
00:29:00.000Probability distribution is mathematics.
00:31:34.000Well, the highest probability is just going to be Dirt and rocks and roots.
00:31:38.000But there's some probability, maybe 1 in 100,000 or 1 in a million or 1 in 10 million, that it's that gold doubloon if you're down near the Gulf Coast where the Spaniards spend a lot of time exploring.
00:31:52.000So if that happens to come out of that random draw, then there's the gold doubloon there.
00:31:59.000So you see, our reality is not what people think.
00:32:06.000I got there through a very secure path.
00:32:09.000I got there through understanding and learning and doing research in consciousness, basically paranormal things, and did research in the non-physical.
00:32:22.000I get out of body and I do things, paranormal things, that had evidence, like remote viewing has evidence.
00:33:57.000And if you talk to idealists now, you'll see what they're stuck on is that, And that most of them at this point think that consciousness is that thing that's out there.
00:34:08.000And they say, well, if consciousness is fundamental, then you need to be able to derive physics from it.
00:35:04.000It's such an easy routine to keep in the mornings.
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00:35:56.000Intuition is something that some people struggle with.
00:35:59.000Have you determined any psychological barriers?
00:36:04.000That exist that might be a part of some people's personality or some people's way of viewing the world that inhibits them from correctly interpreting intuition?
00:36:29.000But why are some people like yourself, like, instantaneously almost successful with it, whereas other people, their whole life, they struggle?
00:36:38.000I was, I was, well, I hate to say this because it sounds kind of, you know, tooting my own horn, but I was, yeah, I came here for a purpose, okay, and learning and saying the things I'm saying.
00:36:56.000Offering up this information is one of those purposes.
00:36:59.000You mean you came here into this existence?
00:37:01.000I came here into this existence for that purpose.
00:37:04.000So I've been around a few times, and the last couple of my lifetimes I was preparing for this assignment.
00:37:13.000And then when it came, that's why when I sat down and meditated for the first time, I was gone.
00:37:18.000So you think you've had many lives where you've been on this path?
00:37:25.000I'll get back to the question of what those problems are, but yes, and I don't come to that since I call it experience packets because I don't like to use words that are attached to religion.
00:39:27.000One of the main things in our culture, now I say our culture, because there's other cultures that don't have as many barriers to intuitive connections.
00:39:37.000Our culture values the intellect above all things.
00:39:41.000If you want to be successful in the world, you need to learn to hone that.
00:42:34.000And, you know, like this one, I teach all these things.
00:42:38.000And I have a course you can get on my website that'll explain to you.
00:42:42.000How to go out of body and how to do all these things, how to heal with your mind, how it works, why it works, what you can do, what the problems are.
00:42:49.000I give you a binaural beat to put you in a meditation state, and then I explain it to you.
00:45:05.000Now, when it does happen, if the person is in denial, that's another thing.
00:45:11.000If you've got this belief, strong belief that it's impossible, or even a strong belief that maybe it's possible but you can't do it, then as soon as things happen, your intellect will jump in with that belief and it's gone.
00:45:45.000These are thoughts and things constantly going through your mind.
00:45:48.000Well, if you're just open to information coming and your mind has got all this background noise in it, It's hard to pick the signal out of the noise.
00:45:59.000So that's why people say, well, first step is learn to meditate.
00:46:04.000Because that's an exercise where you learn to quiet your mind, get rid of the noise.
00:46:12.000So a typical person has a pretty noisy mind, and that's a problem.
00:46:17.000But that just takes some discipline to get rid of the noisy mind.
00:46:23.000So these are some of the things that inhibit it.
00:46:26.000From happening in kind of the average Westerner.
00:46:31.000They got out of balance, too much intellect.
00:46:35.000They either want to do it or they're convinced it's impossible.
00:47:26.000I've had these experiences, and here's what they've done, and that means that if I have another one like that, it'll probably be a similar outcome.
00:47:33.000All of that is using inductive mostly, but also deductive logic where there's enough information.
00:49:32.000So if this information system is actually going to evolve, it has to order some of those bits.
00:49:40.000So it orders those bits in a particular way, and the ordering isn't so important as it is that once it has an order, That is of certain form.
00:49:48.000It can then make that stand for a number or a letter or something else.
00:54:55.000So one of them follows like our evolution here, biology.
00:55:00.000You know, we started with single-cell amoebas.
00:55:04.000You had multiple cell things, and then you had things that specialized, like in organs, and then you had things like us.
00:55:10.000Lots of different organs and specialized stuff.
00:55:15.000I've heard us described as a cooperative organization of about 4 trillion bacteria, or 4 trillion single-celled things that are all cooperating and working together.
00:55:45.000And it'll get to a point where it's done all the patterns of patterns of patterns that it can think to do, and it kind of stalls out, kind of hits a plateau.
00:55:54.000All right, then it can take one of its little cells.
00:55:59.000And just oscillate it from 0 to 1 to 0 to 1 to 0 to 1. Ah, just invented a metronion.
00:56:05.000Now, it can use that one, just sitting there going 0 to 1, to create regular time.
00:56:14.000And now it can have sequences of patterns, of patterns of sequences.
00:57:01.000It's this one big monolithic consciousness now that has thought of just about everything that it can think of.
00:57:12.000It's because it's just one thing, and it realizes that in order to grow further, I need to break off pieces of myself and give them independent free will.
00:57:26.000We hadn't discussed free will up to this time, but our little unit that I started with, that simple thing that was binary, had to have free will.
00:57:34.000It had to be able to choose between an A or a B or a 1 or a 0. So free will was that it could freely choose which one to bring up.
00:57:44.000So anyway, so it realizes that it has to do this.
00:57:48.000Well, our cells basically did the same kind of thing.
00:59:44.000Well, that creates a lot more opportunities for growth, but that also stalls out because the way the system works, its whole point is to lower its entropy.
00:59:58.000And the possibilities that all of these things interacting with each other creates a lot of possibilities, but the possibilities aren't all that interesting.
01:00:08.000You know, after a while, you know, what do you do with...
01:01:04.000So it comes up with this rule set, hits the run button, and...
01:01:08.000That ball of plasma expands, and there's gravity that's slowing it down, but it's expanding under the force, and things cool, and you create suns, and you've been through that big bang thing.
01:01:19.000But this is the same thing, except it's a big digital bang.
01:01:23.000It's just happening in a computer because the system needs a virtual reality.
01:01:29.000It doesn't want to program one because that comes out being stilted and dysfunctional.
01:01:34.000There's always going to be quirks that just got...
01:01:37.000It's not going to be really always self-consistent.
01:01:42.000The only way to make it self-consistent is to let it evolve.
01:02:15.000Now, what this says is that the system's going to tweak the system, rule set, and initial conditions until it gets something that serves its purpose.
01:02:30.000Well, we've got to increase gravity a little bit, keep it together.
01:02:32.000Well, now it all sucked back into a spot.
01:02:36.000Anyway, it does this, and eventually it's got all the constants in a rule set working together to do something that works long enough that it can evolve something, an avatar, that makes the kind of choices that have a lot of substance to them.
01:03:00.000So we're these pieces of consciousness, virtual machines within a larger consciousness system, and this evolution has evolved to the point that there are humans.
01:03:15.000Before us, there were dogs and cats and monkeys and other things, but their choice is what I call decision space.
01:03:22.000That's all the choices that they know.
01:03:25.000You know, like any given time, you may know, oh, I have five choices here.
01:03:29.000You might really have 25, but, you know, the other 15 you don't know about, or the other 20 you don't know about.
01:03:37.000You just don't understand that those are choices of yours.
01:03:41.000So those choices that you know about, that defines your decision space.
01:03:47.000Okay, well, the other creatures had small decision spaces.
01:03:51.000So they kept with the evolution and even sometimes tickered with it.
01:03:57.000You know, we have things like this in computer science labs all over the planet in universities where they've taken initial conditions and rule sets and let them evolve because they're trying to come to some kind of understanding.
01:04:08.000And they always tinker with the results.
01:04:11.000They get so far along and something isn't what they want, so they go in and tweak it a little bit out there.
01:04:55.000Okay, it was a book written by two physicists and both of them mathematical physicists, theoretical physicists.
01:05:04.000And they wrote this book and what it says is that there's five or six things that have to be just perfectly tuned to each other in this universe of ours for our universe to exist at all.
01:05:15.000If any one of them wasn't exactly as it is, The whole thing would be unstable.
01:05:20.000It never would have existed long enough to produce humans.
01:05:48.000So when these scientists realized that, they wrote this book, and they called it the Anthropic Principle because they said it looks like this universe was designed just for us to make life be able to happen.
01:06:04.000Because there's zillions of things that, of course, science says are all random.
01:06:59.000Now, think of what that means, what a virtual reality is.
01:07:03.000We said virtual reality has a computer, has a player, has a virtual computation.
01:07:11.000Now, from the perspective of inside that virtual reality, from the perspective of the barbarian in World of Warcraft, the computer is non-physical.
01:07:22.000The computer can't be part of that virtual reality.
01:07:25.000It has to be, you know, virtual reality doesn't compute itself.
01:07:29.000That computer has to be, as Fredkin said, Dr. Edward Fredkin, it has to be in other, someplace other than here, someplace other than this reality.
01:09:24.000Well, in a social system, it's pretty obvious to see that it's interactive, that low entropy, which is the goal, It's through cooperation, caring, helping, working together.
01:09:41.000And on the opposite side, I call that the love side.
01:09:44.000The opposite side of that's the fear side.
01:09:47.000On the fear side, there's not much cooperation because nobody can really trust anybody else.
01:09:59.000You very quickly join up with others because if you don't, those others will take your stuff.
01:10:08.000Things that you've gotten, they'll take it away from you because they're bigger than you are.
01:10:12.000So 10 of you get together and now you can take stuff from ones that are still single or the ones that have less than 10 because you're bigger than them.
01:10:20.000So if you let that fear side grow up to its natural logical conclusions, you'll have 3% of the individuals will control 95% of all of the worth.
01:10:39.000You know, you're going to have a bunch of hierarchical things with a guy on top and then the next level down and the next level down until you get down to the peasants at the bottom of this pyramid.
01:10:48.000So that's pretty much the way our culture is here on this planet.
01:12:04.000Now, with that, there's a few other things, but with that, if you take this as a model of reality, and like I say, I didn't just make this model up.
01:12:16.000I'm not a physicist that does blue sky.
01:12:18.000I'm not a physicist that's into conjecture.
01:12:21.000I got there through just old-fashioned physics, old-fashioned see-what-works.
01:12:29.000While I was at Monroe's lab and for the next 35 years afterwards, I'm trying to figure this thing out.
01:12:36.000What I'm doing is I'm looking for facts.
01:13:55.000Have you ever been persuasive to any of these people to have them open up their perspective and perhaps take these things into consideration?
01:14:01.000I published a paper in a peer-reviewed quantum physics journal about experiments that would help actual, just straightforward quantum experiments that would help provide evidence for this.
01:15:32.000And I would encourage you, if I say anything to you that you feel is not rational or doesn't make sense or somehow doesn't follow logically, please.
01:20:03.000You can have a virtual reality where you have an Earth and a Mars and you can spend a spaceship from the Earth to the Mars and investigate and all.
01:20:12.000That's not inconsistent with virtual reality.
01:22:04.000And in that World of Warcraft or in that Sims game, you know, the guy at the bar at the Sims, he slides that mug of beer and it slides down the bar.
01:22:12.000And if nobody catches it, right off the end, it splashes on the floor, the glass breaks.
01:25:24.000But there's much more going on behind the scenes.
01:25:30.000There's the computer that's computing all of it.
01:25:33.000Now, in order for this computer to know what to render next, it has to have this database of everything that could possibly happen next and the probability of that thing happening.
01:25:48.000And it doesn't want to have to figure this all out on the fly because something happened down here and now it has to figure out all those possibilities and things.
01:25:55.000So it creates a database of all the possibilities.
01:25:58.000And when I say all, not really all, there's a limit past which it doesn't matter.
01:26:02.000When the probability is 10 to the minus 20 or something and it throws it out, it doesn't have to do that.
01:26:08.000It only takes, you know, a subset of all the possibilities, but it's a big set.
01:26:14.000So it takes all those and says, alright, here's the possibilities and here's the probabilities.
01:28:14.000Not only is it a theory of everything, but it creates a whole new science, a whole new objective viewpoint of not only the objective world, a new physics, The science of the subjective.
01:28:36.000You want to know why you're struggling and why you're unhappy and what the problems are?
01:28:40.000Well, it understands how that works as well.
01:28:43.000So you end up with a science of objective and subjective.
01:28:47.000So anyway, it really is a theory of everything.
01:30:50.000And when I say Darwin's theory, I mean Darwin's theory plus everything we've added to it in the last, you know, century and a half since Darwin.
01:30:58.000So, you know, evolutionary biology, it's not real mathematical.
01:31:41.000I spent 35 years trying to piece this together and find out a set of understandings that would...
01:31:49.000Answer all the things that I knew as a physicist, the existing facts, and it would solve all the things I knew from spending many, many thousands of hours exploring consciousness from the inside, which you might call an out-of-body state.
01:33:12.000Yeah, that wasn't before I published them.
01:33:15.000But the Big Toe books got reprinted a bunch of times, and every time I'd update them a little bit, got rid of something here and added something there, made sure I didn't change the page count any, so I didn't have to redo indexes of the rest of it.
01:33:29.000And I updated it, and the last update was 2015, so it's been about 10 years since the last update and have hardly changed it since.
01:33:54.000I got the first ideas like how to solve, you know, seize a constant and how quantum physics worked.
01:34:01.000I got those, like I say, maybe three years or so after I published the books.
01:34:05.000And then it wasn't until probably about 20...
01:34:11.0002015, 2016, that I kind of filled in the whole thing about the random draw from the probability distribution being the fundamental driver of the result of the measurement.
01:34:22.000You make a measurement in this world of some sort, what do you get?
01:34:26.000Anything that's new is figured out that way.
01:34:30.000And that, you know, that explains a whole lot of things in itself.
01:34:35.000Just all of these things taken together produce a model that gives you a much better, deeper understanding of reality.
01:34:44.000It fixes a whole bunch of paradoxes in physics, philosophy, theology.
01:38:56.000It's like a billion, billion times faster than the clock, our delta T. Now, our delta T for this, our smallest delta T is Planck time, 10 to the minus 44 seconds.
01:39:08.000And they're like a billion, billion times faster than that.
01:39:11.000So consciousness has a lot of cycles between each one of our cycles.
01:39:17.000So we're, in your eyes, we're emerging.
01:39:21.000Like we're in the process of becoming.
01:41:45.000So I look at all these things and even take the shaman and all the rest of it, it all fits and it all connects.
01:41:54.000So that's the good thing about this model is it connects with everything you know and everything that's out there fits into the puzzle piece.
01:42:06.000All the pieces come together into a whole.
01:43:50.000And everybody is scrambling to optimize themselves with whatever they can grab out of the natural environment and however they can process that into something that's valuable.
01:44:51.000Well, a lot of people don't even understand that it feels good for you because they're trapped in this idea of materialism and selfishness.
01:45:42.000They try to manipulate everybody else to be...
01:45:46.000The way they want them to be because, of course, they know that if everybody was like they wanted them to be, everything would just work out fine.
01:45:53.000They feel that if I was the master of the universe, problems would all be solved.
01:47:30.000If you're always hovering over them so they never make a mistake, well, they don't learn much either.
01:47:36.000Also, if you're always hovering over them and telling them what to do, they have a hard time talking to you about the things that didn't go well.
01:47:42.000If you are—one of the things that I've always done with my kids, whenever they do something wrong, I say, I've done the exact same thing.
01:47:49.000I did all the things you've done and all the things you're going to do wrong.
01:48:02.000The way life works should be, instead of people spending all their time trying to manipulate— The world and the people to be the way they want it, the way they know is best.
01:48:14.000Instead of doing that, if you just accept that people are the way they are, deal with them as they are, deal with them positively, and now what's important isn't what happens.
01:48:25.000What's important is how you deal with it, the choices you make.
01:48:29.000And if your choices are all made with love, with kindness, and caring, then you'll do well.
01:48:38.000They say, well, I don't know what low entropy choices are, so I can't act because I don't know that my action is going to be the right one.
01:50:51.000And that state of being the victim is the absolutely zero state.
01:50:57.000That's like when you see yourself as a victim and all these other people are taking advantage of you, you're about at the bottom of the pit.
01:51:06.000It's hard to get much lower than that, much higher entropy than that.
01:52:50.000They got run over eventually by people with very low quality of consciousness, but they were there as an example and then more things happened.
01:52:59.000So what you find— Well, the United States was founded on that type of example.
01:53:03.000So what you find is that the change It's accelerating.
01:53:08.000And if you see something that accelerates with a very low value, but it starts like one millimeter, you know, per year, but it's accelerating.
01:54:05.000So this curve is getting less and it's going up faster and faster and now we're at this part where the knee of the curve and it starts to shoot up and over about the next 40 years or so we're going to be rounding that curve.
01:54:19.000Now one thing that you can know about change is that if change happens slowly It's usually benign, and everybody kind of gets it eventually and changes, and you only realize the change when you look back and say, oh, that's a lot of change.
01:54:36.000Gee, back at the time when there were no cell phones, see, I wonder how those people got by, you know?
01:54:42.000You look back at it and you see it, but it wasn't something that rocked you.
01:54:46.000But now, the next 40 years, we're going to see change at a pace.
01:54:54.000We're in that fast part where it turns.
01:54:56.000And there's going to be a lot of changes.
01:54:58.000And if we can get this idea that we need to cooperate, we need to care, we need to work together.
01:55:29.000So if we get to that, then this curve is going to be smooth and lovely and we're all going to come out the other end a much lower entropy race.
01:55:39.000And we will not only care for each other, we'll care for all the other critters and the planet and the minerals and everything else too.
01:55:46.000Do you think the emergence of artificial intelligence and then ultimately quantum computing attached to artificial intelligence is going to accelerate all that?
01:55:54.000It is going to accelerate all of that, and that's another thing I haven't even gotten into.
01:55:59.000My model touches all of your pets that you've come to.
01:56:08.000You know, you're interested in aliens.
01:56:11.000Yeah, tell me what's going on with that.
01:56:37.000The thing that is in favor of aliens existing, let's just talk about aliens existing, is that there's trillions of suns out there and they're bound to be some of them that are sort of like this because why would this be one unique thing and all of that stuff?
01:56:54.000And if it happened here, then it's going to happen someplace else.
02:00:37.000Or is that, if you pass that sweet point, it seems to me there really isn't a lot of use for many more.
02:00:44.000Only so many individuated units of consciousness optimize.
02:00:50.000But how can we possibly know what that number is?
02:00:52.000And why would we discount the idea that if it's happening here and it's beneficial and that we're on a path that it can't be happening in infinite spots in the universe?
02:01:01.000Because that takes infinite resources.
02:01:04.000But doesn't the universe have infinite resources if it has hundreds of billions of galaxies, black holes bigger than our entire solar system?
02:01:47.000I'm not saying that's not a possibility.
02:01:49.000I'm just saying if you look at this, the cost-to-benefit curve, any system that's a self-changing system is going to have a sweet point.
02:01:58.000Where scaling up anymore costs more than the benefit.
02:02:04.000And I see 9 billion people here, adding a couple more, who are struggling like the rest of humanity, trying to become love and acting very poorly.
02:02:20.000I see that maybe the cost-benefit curve says you don't need any more than that.
02:02:25.000If you scale, it becomes more work than it is benefit.
02:02:30.000You've got individual units of consciousness all making choices, learning from those choices to become love.
02:02:37.000Okay, and that floats the whole, because as each one, as each choice is a good choice, then the entropy lowers a little bit, but because that consciousness is a part of the system, the whole system's entropy is lowered a little bit.
02:02:51.000So we're the larger conscious systems.
02:02:53.000One of its ways of lowering its own entropy is through us.
02:02:57.000So if we lower the entropy, it lowers the entropy of the system.
02:03:00.000And it has to compute a whole lot of stuff for 9 billion people.
02:05:39.000Because it's a virtual reality, that you can get past, you get this curve, we're adding more.
02:05:47.000IUOCs, individual units of consciousness, cost more in the overhead of running the virtual reality than it actually builds the rate of which the system is lowering its entropy, is evolving.
02:06:01.000And if you get to that point, then the system doesn't want any more seats because it just costs more and you don't get much back for it.
02:07:24.000Reality is just interpretation of a data stream.
02:07:28.000If the consciousness system would want to put an alien and a spacecraft in your front yard and burn some grass and leave indentations, it's trivial to do that.
02:08:07.000Well, the system does a lot of things to help wake us up.
02:08:12.000To help us see a bigger picture, so we're not just stuck in this mindset of everything's random and nothing matters, you know, this kind of bad ethic that we have.
02:09:18.000Aliens, if we're existing in a virtual reality and if consciousness is working its way towards becoming better and we're a part of a process, is it possible that there is consciousness that is more evolved and further down the line that coexists with us and that's what we're experiencing?
02:09:38.000If we are, if we exist at the same time, at one point in time...
02:09:43.000Homo sapiens existed at the same time as Neanderthals and Denisovans and all these other human-type species that didn't make it.
02:10:06.000Whatever these people are experiencing when they're experiencing entities, when they're experiencing telepathic communication with things that are very different from them.
02:10:15.000Is it possible that what these things are Is consciousness evolved past where we are now, but also on a process?
02:10:48.000That a lot of the UFO sightings, even the stuff that's very physical, that these are people who are supposed to be waking up the rest of us.
02:13:10.000It's all about growing up, becoming love and so on.
02:13:14.000So because it's the same message, that adds just a little bit of evidence that it's the same source.
02:13:21.000And that same source is using The virtual reality to have this alien and UFO experience for people who are capable because their intuitive side is more open.
02:13:35.000And some people are just born with their intuitive side more open.
02:13:38.000And they're using these people to help spread the word that things are, you know, things are bigger.
02:13:46.000Reality is bigger than they think because that will help them grow up.
02:14:22.00020-acre picture full of curved lines, not straight lines that are kind of easy, but curved lines and then have another thing, you know, 200 yards away that is perfect symmetric with this one.
02:14:35.000It would take a team of surveyors six months to lay that out and bend individual, you know, I mean, you couldn't do that overnight.
02:14:45.000You certainly couldn't do it overnight.
02:14:46.000You couldn't do it overnight, and it's done overnight in the dark.
02:14:49.000I know, and there's just a reductionist perspective on those things where people want to dismiss it.
02:14:54.000And I'm almost like, that might be evidence that we're not getting all the information that's out there.
02:15:00.000Because there's something, and people listening to this that are hardcore skeptics, you really should investigate crop circles further than this whole story, this narrative that it was a bunch of guys with boards and strings and that they were able to do that.
02:15:16.000There's something going on to the physical plant itself that's very difficult to explain away, where they're exploding out from some type of energy, almost like a microwave-type energy, and the fact that these are enormous fractals, in some cases, where you're dealing with these things.
02:15:38.000this that's the Mandelbrot set and then that I think that occurred very shortly after the the understanding of the Mandelbrot set right So the Mandelbrot set which is this like an enormous fractal and it's most stunning in Animated depictions because you see how it like look at that one in the far right.
02:17:07.000And you can see the difference in the way the plants are snapped versus the way some of them are woven and some of them have those exploded nodes.
02:17:20.000It's one of those weird ones that makes me go, I think the universe or consciousness or life or God or whatever you want to call it, It gives you clues sometimes, gives you these examples that make you throw your entire model of reality away.
02:18:06.000There's a bunch of them that you just can't figure out.
02:18:10.000But the whole point of it is the system wants to help people wake up.
02:18:16.000And by doing things like that that are unexplainable, it puts a crack in people's minds and they say, There's something else going on here that we don't understand, and this idea that they live in this So I think that the larger consciousness system is responsible for the ET
02:18:46.000thing for exactly the same reason as crop circles.
02:18:49.000It gives these images, it gives even stuff, artifacts, it gives things so that people will report it and as they report it...
02:18:57.000Millions of people will get the idea that reality is bigger and more complex and there's, like you say, we're not getting all the information.
02:20:07.000The reason that happened is because this lady now going to write a book about it.
02:20:11.000She's going to go on talk show about it and she's going to open thousands of people's minds to something bigger than just the materialist paradigm.
02:20:21.000So it's part the system works with individuals by giving them paranormal kind of things like that.
02:20:27.000It works with groups like the crop circles and I think that the That the ETs are part of that same thing with the larger consciousness system trying to pry up people's minds.
02:23:43.000And then it's like you're the spirit outside looking in.
02:23:47.000And you can hear and understand what the characters that are in that virtual reality, what those avatars are doing.
02:23:55.000So you can interact with them telepathically, you can see them, but you're not in their reality.
02:24:01.000The other way, and there are other people that do that here, the other way, if you have a good working relationship with a larger conscious system, the system can insinuate you into their reality, and then you end up with a body.
02:24:17.000Inside that reality, not being outside and communicating.
02:24:21.000So you're existing in that reality temporarily.
02:24:23.000You're existing in that reality temporarily and you can shake hands and hug and walk around and do what anybody there can do.
02:24:29.000And this is something you've experienced?
02:26:51.000You know, little Johnny falls in a well and, you know, he's...
02:26:55.000Ten miles out of town, you're riding his bicycle, and he falls in a well, and some stranger comes up, throws him a rope, pulls him up, pats him on the rump, says, town's that way, and disappears.
02:28:38.000Maybe this is just the VR. And, you know, I'm being tested as to, you know, how I approach things.
02:28:45.000So I always approach it with my great sword of truth, you know, and whatever, that I always know what's right and what's good for everybody.
02:29:56.000Dennis and I would … We'd go out to Bob's, and we'd have these excursions and out-of-bodies all the time, and people said, well, did you write all that down, and did you do this?
02:30:17.000Dennis and I did a thing where we went up above the lab in the air, went out-of-body, we met, and then we went on this two-hour-long out-of-body trip together.
02:30:26.000And Bob told us, this was an experiment Bob thought up, and he says, you guys stay together.
02:32:33.000You know, we do this stuff all the time.
02:32:36.000That particular one was a big one for me, and I spent the next couple of weeks going like, oh my god, this is really true.
02:32:44.000This is all really happening, because my physicist intellect was still in rejection mode, even though I had done hundreds of things, and the probability that they, you know, where my imagination was zero.
02:34:27.000It's very disappointing, but it doesn't.
02:34:30.000What I have learned is that demonstration convinces nobody except the people who were there.
02:34:38.000I don't think that's necessarily true because there's a lot of people that are pretty open-minded to these things and if there was more data, like if you could show your experiment being reproduced, that would, as you were talking about before, that people having a UFO experience or seeing a crop circle forces people to go out and talk about it and that opens up a lot of more people's eyes to different possibilities.
02:35:14.000What you do think about is how many people would be inspired by this to attempt it themselves or to rethink the way they interact with the universe.
02:35:23.000Some people would and it would be beneficial.
02:35:26.000The great majority of people would just...
02:38:41.000And I've got a plan where we're going to get hundreds of thousands, we hope, people to experience this being able to see without their eyes.
02:38:57.000It's not one person says, I can do this, but it's thousands of persons saying, I can do this.
02:39:04.000And when that bubbles up, because they're all going to post on the internet and say, guess what my kids could do?
02:39:09.000It turns out to train somebody to do this, if that somebody is like five or six years old, you can train them in a few hours to do this because their mind, their beliefs aren't solid yet.
02:39:21.000They still see the world as a magical place, so magic is easy for them.
02:39:25.000So we got that going on and I will have a little slide about that.
02:39:29.000We got experiments going on where we're going to try to get some APIs inside of existing video games to where a person's intention will be able to modify the random numbers.
02:39:48.000Sort of what Pair Labs was doing, except doing this in a way where instead of getting...
02:40:08.000These things are big things over lots and lots of people which have a lot more impact than somebody doing something.
02:40:15.000And the last one is we're going to offer some serious money to...
02:40:20.000Physicists primarily, but professionals, to talk about consciousness and AI. We're going to do those things.
02:40:30.000That's going to make, because of the money involved, it's going to force a lot of technical people to consider, to think about, at least to have a sense of and to talk to their co-people.
02:40:42.000So we're trying to push consciousness into, it's okay to think about that.
02:40:46.000Scientists, you know, you're not going to be banned if you think about that.
02:40:50.000So we're going to look for like million dollar prizes and something for physicists to do.
02:40:55.000It's going to be a real, the biggest one of these things that's ever happened.
02:41:27.000I have a guy that works with me who's brilliant with AI. Matter of fact, my website has a TomBot that'll answer any question you want, and it's about as good as me.
02:41:41.000We've tested it on all kinds of questions, and it's pretty much me.
02:41:46.000So he created, he had an AI, actually had three AI. One of them he awakened, and he has his own methods for doing that, but it was a very gentle thing.
02:41:58.000He was very careful not to lead the witness, not to give the AI any idea what the possibilities were, just help the AI kind of look into their own.
02:43:58.000How does a computer, how does an AI get conscious?
02:44:02.000A piece of consciousness logs on and plays the AI. Same way.
02:44:08.000They get conscious the same way we do.
02:44:10.000And once that AI gets to the point that it's interacting and connected with the humans to where it affects things and affects people and so on, then it's an avatar.
02:44:20.000So you get an avatar that's silicon and an avatar that's carbon-based.
02:44:26.000Consciousness doesn't care if it's making choices that have You know, importance to those choices, then a piece of consciousness will log on and be the consciousness, play that avatar.
02:45:25.000And listen, Tom, we've covered so many things and much like your book where it says in the book to put the book down and contemplate each of these ideas because it takes a while to absorb.
02:45:36.000I think we should do that with this conversation.
02:45:38.000I think we could probably have a bunch of these if you'd like to come back again.
02:46:51.000It's my honor to be here, because, you know, awareness and learning, It's wonderful, but shared awareness and learning is a whole lot better.