The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2280 - Peter Berg

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day!

00:00:13.000 Those are a lot.

00:00:18.000 Is this too much?

00:00:19.000 They're delicious.

00:00:20.000 Am I making a rookie mistake?

00:00:21.000 No, I love them.

00:00:22.000 They're too good, though.

00:00:23.000 There's a lot of sugar in them.

00:00:25.000 They're trying to make one with no sugar.

00:00:27.000 They're pretty close.

00:00:28.000 But right now, that's got a ton of sugar in it. 0.99

00:00:30.000 But damn, it's good. 0.99

00:00:31.000 Yeah, they taste good. 1.00

00:00:33.000 We did the full thing today, dude.

00:00:35.000 Thanks for the workout.

00:00:36.000 My pleasure.

00:00:36.000 It was fun.

00:00:37.000 Thanks for the workout. 0.65

00:00:37.000 You're a beast. 0.65

00:00:38.000 For anyone that doesn't know, you are a fucking beast. 1.00

00:00:42.000 And I suspected you would be. 1.00

00:00:44.000 You know, that's why I wanted to work out.

00:00:47.000 And I was smart enough.

00:00:48.000 And I told you right away, I'm not going to keep up with you.

00:00:51.000 But man, you go hard.

00:00:53.000 You did a lot of the things, though.

00:00:54.000 You did all the stuff.

00:00:56.000 You know?

00:00:57.000 And stuff that you'd never done before, like windmills.

00:00:59.000 Yeah, those windmills.

00:01:01.000 You could really get in trouble with the windmill.

00:01:03.000 Yeah.

00:01:04.000 For people that don't know what that is.

00:01:05.000 You certainly can with heavy weight.

00:01:06.000 Yeah.

00:01:07.000 But all those things, like the push-ups and bodyweight squats, it's all just you have to build to it.

00:01:12.000 I love the way you warm up, you know, because I'm the same way.

00:01:16.000 I do a long warm-up every day.

00:01:19.000 And my buddy Ari got me into it and just try and stretch absolutely everything.

00:01:25.000 And I was telling you, I got thrown off a horse in Africa a month ago. 0.97

00:01:29.000 And when I was in the process of getting thrown off, and I was like in the middle of the air, and I'm about to come down, and I'm like, oh shit, this is going to be a problem.

00:01:37.000 And I thought about those warm-ups, and I landed and rolled and didn't hurt myself. 0.64

00:01:42.000 So I think those are really smart.

00:01:45.000 Yeah, if we could just appreciate when your body works well without having to be injured, it would be so nice.

00:01:51.000 Right.

00:01:51.000 Because you really only think about your body.

00:01:55.000 Body heals when you get injured. 0.99

00:01:57.000 If you get fucked up, then you think, God, I can't wait to get healthy again. 0.95

00:02:01.000 But if you just appreciate, and the best way to appreciate your body working well is to keep it working well. 0.99

00:02:06.000 Yeah, man.

00:02:06.000 Just to work on it.

00:02:07.000 Like, stretch out.

00:02:09.000 Work out.

00:02:09.000 Lift weights.

00:02:10.000 Get some cardio in.

00:02:12.000 Do the stuff that's uncomfortable, like stretching.

00:02:15.000 I like that you started off your workout with a nice, long stretch.

00:02:18.000 We had a good stretch.

00:02:19.000 Yeah.

00:02:19.000 And a good ice bath, man.

00:02:21.000 Yours is colder than mine.

00:02:22.000 That blue cube is brutal because it's always running.

00:02:25.000 Yeah.

00:02:25.000 It's like a flowing river.

00:02:27.000 Yeah.

00:02:27.000 That's hard.

00:02:29.000 Great.

00:02:29.000 It was a great way to start.

00:02:31.000 Appreciate it.

00:02:31.000 Yeah, it gets you fired up, man.

00:02:32.000 And also, like we were saying, your workout's done.

00:02:35.000 Your day can...

00:02:36.000 You're free.

00:02:37.000 You don't have to think about doing it.

00:02:39.000 Just get it out of the way early.

00:02:40.000 You're good.

00:02:41.000 And the sauna and the way you approach...

00:02:44.000 The way I think you approach all of it is kind of a meditation.

00:02:48.000 Yeah.

00:02:48.000 And I know that that's...

00:02:50.000 Probably really an important part of your creative process.

00:02:53.000 It is of mine when I'm writing or directing to be able to have that time alone.

00:02:59.000 And it's a moving meditation.

00:03:01.000 And I think one of the secrets to your success, in my opinion, is that you know how to take that time for yourself.

00:03:09.000 Lock in, focus, get mentally and physically ready because it's not easy to do what you do every day and to be this.

00:03:15.000 This present, so I respect it so much.

00:03:18.000 Well, thank you very much. 0.62

00:03:19.000 Well, obviously, I'm a huge fan of what you do, and fucking American Prime Humble is so good, dude. 0.58

00:03:25.000 Thank you, man. 0.68

00:03:26.000 I feel like you made it just for me.

00:03:28.000 I've been waiting for a realistic Wild West series like that forever, and that is, I'll just say it right now, that's the best one that's ever been made.

00:03:38.000 Thank you.

00:03:38.000 It's the best representation of the Wild West that's ever been made.

00:03:42.000 It's so good, dude.

00:03:44.000 It's so brutal.

00:03:46.000 My wife checked out after episode one. 0.83

00:03:47.000 Did she?

00:03:48.000 Yeah.

00:03:48.000 She's like, I can't.

00:03:49.000 Because we watch shows before we go to bed.

00:03:53.000 And we're in the middle of Severance, which is excellent.

00:03:55.000 Really good show.

00:03:56.000 And Severance is, you know, I mean, there's some brutal moments, but it's just really complicated.

00:04:01.000 It's really engaging.

00:04:03.000 You've got to pay very close attention.

00:04:04.000 Yeah, really good show.

00:04:05.000 And then I said, hey, baby, we've got to watch American Primeval.

00:04:09.000 I go, Peter's coming on.

00:04:10.000 Please sit and watch with me.

00:04:11.000 It was a couple weeks ago. 0.99

00:04:14.000 The first episode, she's like, Jesus Christ, what the fuck are you doing to me? 0.99

00:04:18.000 It's like 10 o'clock at night, I gotta go to bed. 1.00

00:04:21.000 People are getting tomahawked in the fucking head and I gotta go to sleep. 0.99

00:04:26.000 If I have to call her or send her flowers or anything, I will. 1.00

00:04:29.000 I've had to send a few people flowers and give them massages and stuff, like therapy. 0.98

00:04:37.000 Treatments because it's traumatizing.

00:04:38.000 Because you did it right.

00:04:39.000 That's why.

00:04:40.000 Because you did it right.

00:04:41.000 You did it like it really was. 1.00

00:04:43.000 It was a fucking barbaric time in a barbaric place. 0.99

00:04:48.000 And it's never really been... 0.99

00:04:50.000 Other than 1883, Taylor Sheridan's series, which is also excellent.

00:04:55.000 Excellent.

00:04:56.000 He did a fantastic job.

00:04:59.000 And how crazy is it that like Faith Hill and what's the other guy's name?

00:05:04.000 Tim.

00:05:05.000 Tim McGraw. 1.00

00:05:06.000 They're fucking great actors. 0.99

00:05:08.000 Sure. 0.99

00:05:08.000 Tim was in Friday Night Lights. 0.99

00:05:10.000 Do you remember him in the movie?

00:05:11.000 He played the father, like the mean alcoholic father who used to beat up his kid.

00:05:17.000 And Tim was great in Friday Night Lights.

00:05:20.000 Tim's a very good actor.

00:05:21.000 Isn't that crazy?

00:05:22.000 Yeah.

00:05:22.000 That someone who's a great singer can all just...

00:05:24.000 Slide into this other thing and be amazing at it?

00:05:27.000 He's an artist.

00:05:27.000 I mean, he's a really deep Thinking, deep-feeling artist.

00:05:31.000 Yeah, clearly.

00:05:33.000 And Taylor Sheridan has a knack for getting great performances out of people like McGraw.

00:05:39.000 Or did you see Jerry Jones, his cameo in Landman, which I think is the best cameo ever?

00:05:44.000 Have you seen that yet?

00:05:45.000 What episode is it on?

00:05:46.000 I'm not sure because I don't know each episode.

00:05:49.000 But Sheridan has a sequence where Jerry Jones basically playing himself just tells the story of how he got into...

00:05:58.000 Business and how he started up and it's just beautifully done.

00:06:02.000 Sheridan's very good at getting people to...

00:06:05.000 To do cameos and pulling it out of them. 0.95

00:06:08.000 I think that show was, like, Billy Bob Thornton was built for that show.

00:06:12.000 It's like he was born for it.

00:06:14.000 That's his perfect role. 0.98

00:06:16.000 He's so goddamn good in that show. 0.97

00:06:18.000 In Landman. 0.98

00:06:19.000 Yeah, in Landman.

00:06:20.000 He's so good.

00:06:20.000 I mean, he's been good in a million things, but in Landman, it's like, you just believe he's that guy.

00:06:26.000 Yeah, man.

00:06:27.000 You just believe.

00:06:29.000 But...

00:06:29.000 American Primeval, back to that.

00:06:31.000 What inspired you to do such a realistic interpretation?

00:06:38.000 Do you remember a movie called Jeremiah Johnson?

00:06:41.000 Did you ever see that with Robert Redford?

00:06:43.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, a long time ago.

00:06:45.000 So Redford plays this city man who goes out west looking for gold and ends up sort of stuck somewhere around Montana and is trying to survive out there.

00:06:56.000 When the Indians first find him, he's... 0.98

00:06:58.000 He's so inept. 0.99

00:06:59.000 He's trying to catch a fish in a frozen river with his hands. 1.00

00:07:03.000 I mean, he's completely inept that they don't even waste an arrow on him. 0.95

00:07:07.000 They don't kill him. 0.57

00:07:08.000 And by the end of the film, he's a warrior, and he's learned how to survive, and he marries a Native American woman, and his wife gets killed, and he goes on a vengeance. 0.69

00:07:20.000 Spree and kills a whole bunch of people and ends up getting this incredible respect from the Native Americans. 1.00

00:07:28.000 And my dad took me to see Jeremiah Johnson, and that movie always stuck with me.

00:07:33.000 And I'm good friends with Taylor Sheridan, and we work together a lot, and I obviously know everything he's doing, and I kind of wanted to see if I could play in that space.

00:07:42.000 But he's doing it so well and so specifically, I kind of thought, well, what if I just did something that was really...

00:07:49.000 About the survival and I like to call it inch-by-inch filmmaking where you think about how hard it would have been just to go 50 feet and take a piss and how there might have been 15 different things that could have killed you on the way to taking that piss.

00:08:05.000 Instead of just jumping through those 50 things, let's really try and stretch it out and try and show people and capture the brutality of moment-to-moment living.

00:08:17.000 Back in, you know, that part of America in 1850s.

00:08:21.000 And you're used to doing films.

00:08:23.000 So what is the process like transitioning from something that's two or three hours to something that's long form?

00:08:33.000 You have all this time and multiple episodes to lay out the story, but you're doing it with the quality of an excellent film.

00:08:41.000 Everything starts with good health.

00:08:43.000 That's why AG1 is a great addition to any morning routine and why I've partnered with them for so long.

00:08:49.000 One scoop, once a day, simple, research-backed and designed to support your whole body health.

00:08:55.000 And it actually tastes great.

00:08:57.000 You can forget juggling multiple pills and supplements.

00:09:00.000 AG1 is a more in-one solution that...

00:09:04.000 Combines a multivitamin, superior B-complex, a blend of superfoods, and more.

00:09:09.000 And more importantly, AG1 prioritizes using nutrients that are already in their bioactive form so your body can use them easily.

00:09:16.000 Just mix it with cold water and you're set.

00:09:19.000 No hassle.

00:09:19.000 No guesswork.

00:09:20.000 It's never too late to create a new healthy habit for 2025. So try AG1 for yourself.

00:09:26.000 And right now, AG1 is offering new customers a free $76 gift when you subscribe.

00:09:32.000 You'll get a welcome.

00:09:37.000 So make sure you check out drinkag1.com slash Joe Rogan.

00:09:42.000 That's drinkag1.com slash Joe Rogan.

00:09:46.000 Check it out.

00:09:47.000 Yeah, it was a massive job.

00:09:50.000 You know, a movie, a big movie is generally like 85-day shoot.

00:09:56.000 American Primeval is a 145-day shoot.

00:09:59.000 And I had one of my ideas, and with Markel Smith, who wrote the episodes and was very talented, was let's not shoot in sound stages.

00:10:10.000 Let's not, you know, make parking lots look like...

00:10:14.000 But let's go up into the mountains.

00:10:17.000 And in this case, we went up onto some different Indian reservations in New Mexico.

00:10:22.000 And we're like, let's really go out there for 145 days.

00:10:26.000 Let's do it.

00:10:27.000 This is all prior to us going out and actually doing it.

00:10:30.000 And it's kind of like, be careful what you ask for. 0.95

00:10:34.000 You're actually really fucking on the mountain for 140. Five days. 0.95

00:10:39.000 And there's lightning storms and snow storms and wind storms.

00:10:43.000 And we had rattlesnakes everywhere.

00:10:45.000 And we had to have all these dudes going around pulling the snakes out of the rocks. 1.00

00:10:50.000 And stuntmen breaking ribs.

00:10:53.000 Joe Schilling was with us every day.

00:10:55.000 I think we killed Joe five times.

00:10:57.000 Thanks, Joe.

00:10:59.000 I saw Tate Fletcher.

00:11:00.000 I was telling you, too.

00:11:01.000 Episode two.

00:11:02.000 We only killed Tate once, but thanks, Tate, for that.

00:11:05.000 I love that dude.

00:11:05.000 But these stuntmen were so tough.

00:11:07.000 Breaking bones and all kinds of horrible things.

00:11:10.000 But the creative...

00:11:13.000 Experience of getting to do basically six movies at once, you know, because I directed all of them. 0.66

00:11:20.000 And being able to go that deep in characters and to be able to bring in elements like Brigham Young and the Mormon religion and have big themes circling around just very visceral, violent moments as a filmmaker is fucking awesome.

00:11:37.000 And it's a... 0.64

00:11:39.000 It's different, you know, because it's not...

00:11:41.000 Directing an episode of a television show is its own experience, but that's very quick.

00:11:46.000 Directing a movie is really, really wonderful and very obviously creatively demanding.

00:11:51.000 But this is six movies all at once.

00:11:55.000 And having to keep that in my head and kind of figure out how to keep myself...

00:12:01.000 Functioning and not wasting energy.

00:12:03.000 And, you know, I built a gym in my house in New Mexico with a nice bath and a sauna.

00:12:09.000 And I'd get up at four every morning and just have that time for myself to keep myself fit and, you know, mentally and physically ready to go at it.

00:12:20.000 I'm sorry to interrupt you, but when you're in the mineral project and you're doing your workouts and your sauna, are you just like constantly going over the show in your head?

00:12:28.000 Yeah, I mean, I try to...

00:12:31.000 I do go over it, but in more of an abstract way.

00:12:35.000 I'm a...

00:12:36.000 I'm a bit of an improvisational filmmaker, meaning I don't like to have everything super planned out.

00:12:42.000 I think kind of the way you conduct your podcast, you have some ideas, and then you just sort of allow whatever happens to happen.

00:12:51.000 And I know what I'm going to do that day, particularly with American Primeval because...

00:12:58.000 We had so many big battles and stunts and kind of dangerous, complex filmmaking that there has to be some plan.

00:13:05.000 But even within that, I try to loosely think about what I want to do and then get out there and let the actors kind of start doing what they do and see what kind of creative vibe gets going.

00:13:21.000 And a lot of the cameramen, you know, I just shoot handheld cameras so we have a lot of flexibility.

00:13:26.000 With how we can work and capture.

00:13:28.000 And my feeling is rather than plan it all out, go out there knowing kind of what you want to accomplish, but allow kind of creativity, allow that kind of divine magic to enter the process, which can kind of be freaky for like my bosses at Netflix because they're spending a whole lot of money and they're like, what are we doing today?

00:13:50.000 And I'm like, I don't really know what we're doing today, but we're going to do something.

00:13:55.000 Well, they're pretty good at staying out of the way, aren't they?

00:13:57.000 They actually are fantastic about it. 0.98

00:14:00.000 And, you know, I have to give, you know, my boss, there's a woman named Bella Bajara at Netflix, and people talk a lot of shit about Netflix. 0.98

00:14:10.000 I'm not one of them. 0.96

00:14:12.000 I mean, they're giving so many people so much work.

00:14:15.000 And once you convince them that you have a vision, they let you do it.

00:14:21.000 And she was great, and she let me do it.

00:14:25.000 And it was interesting because there was a scene in the second episode of American Primeval where a Native American cuts the throats of... 0.96

00:14:36.000 Five women. 0.75

00:14:37.000 Spoiler alert.

00:14:38.000 Sorry.

00:14:39.000 Spoiler alert.

00:14:39.000 I guess, sort of.

00:14:41.000 There's a lot of other bad things that happen.

00:14:43.000 But there is this scene, right?

00:14:45.000 And, you know, Netflix is a very busy company.

00:14:48.000 They're making a lot of stuff.

00:14:50.000 And we were deep in the edit process.

00:14:52.000 And I got a call from Bella, the boss, my boss. 0.54

00:14:56.000 And she's like, I want to see this show.

00:14:58.000 And I'm like, well, it's your show, so please come in.

00:15:02.000 And it's hard for her to keep track of all the shows and all the scripts, and I was impressed that she even wanted to come in.

00:15:08.000 And so she came in to the edit room, and she's like, I'm going to watch one episode.

00:15:13.000 It's kind of a big deal.

00:15:14.000 She's a very influential person in our world.

00:15:18.000 And so it's me and Hugo, the editor, and Bella comes in, and we're showing her the first episode.

00:15:23.000 We're just sitting in this kind of dark screening room, and I have no idea what she's going to say or do, and it's pretty violent.

00:15:29.000 And it ends, and she goes, I want to see another one.

00:15:32.000 And I'm like, okay, we'll start playing the second episode. 0.53

00:15:36.000 And we're getting right to the moment where, spoiler alert, these women are about to have their throats cut. 1.00

00:15:42.000 And I'm starting to have a full fucking panic attack because I'm pretty sure that she doesn't know what's coming up, right? 0.98

00:15:50.000 And Hugo, the editor, is kind of looking at me like, should I stop it? 0.82

00:15:54.000 And I really didn't know what to do.

00:15:56.000 And we get to the moment where this event happens.

00:16:01.000 And my body heat was literally rising.

00:16:03.000 I'm ready for her to fire me and take the show. 1.00

00:16:06.000 And the scene happens and the girls get their throats cut. 1.00

00:16:10.000 And she says, stop.

00:16:12.000 And we stop.

00:16:14.000 And she goes, Peter, I can sense you're concerned about my reaction.

00:16:18.000 Let me tell you something.

00:16:19.000 I'm here for this violence.

00:16:21.000 I'm not afraid of this violence as long as you make it emotional and connect me to the emotion.

00:16:27.000 Do it.

00:16:28.000 And I'm like, thank you, Bella.

00:16:31.000 And she left and she allowed us to explore the kind of grit and intensity that people have reacted to.

00:16:41.000 I tip my hat to her for that.

00:16:44.000 You need that kind of support to get something like American Primeval made today because it's not your grandmother's Western.

00:16:56.000 No, it's critical that you do it that way.

00:16:59.000 Because if people want to really know what that was like, if you read the historical accounts of what happened, that's what happened.

00:17:07.000 For sure.

00:17:07.000 It happened that way.

00:17:08.000 It was horrific.

00:17:11.000 One of the things that a lot of people have talked about, and I had, you know, the LDS Church issued a statement sort of...

00:17:20.000 Critiquing the show and critiquing me, which I appreciate and I understand why members of the Mormon community would be offended by the portrayal of Brigham Young and the Mountain Meadows Massacre, which was the event that we used as kind of our inciting incident.

00:17:39.000 For the first episode, which was a real massacre that the Mormons committed on a group of pioneers who were heading out west or a Mormon militia with some Paiute Indians attacked and murdered about 140 men, women and children.

00:17:57.000 And we present that in the film.

00:18:01.000 And we present Brigham Young in the film.

00:18:04.000 And many Mormons, it's interesting to start reading all the debate about it, but a lot of Mormons are saying, yeah, this is exactly what happened, and this is a part of our history.

00:18:14.000 And no other Mormons, particularly the seniors in Salt Lake City, were saying this is not what happened, this is not fair.

00:18:20.000 But what I find interesting about the Mormon church and about kind of... 0.94

00:18:26.000 How we present it is I've had a lot of people come to me and go Dude, I never knew the Mormons were such savages. 1.00

00:18:33.000 So gangster. 1.00

00:18:34.000 They were fucking gangster. 1.00

00:18:36.000 Brigham Young was, in my opinion, a gangster, a survivor, a warrior. 1.00

00:18:42.000 And for anyone who follows Mormon history, you know, they started in upstate New York with this young kid, Joseph Smith, who found these tablets and basically rewrote the Bible and started getting this following.

00:18:55.000 And then they moved to Missouri and they got popular and then there was an extermination order. 0.90

00:19:00.000 But it was kill all the Mormons. 0.93

00:19:02.000 So they fled to Illinois and tried to survive up there at this place called Nauvoo that was going to be their peaceful place to live.

00:19:11.000 And Joseph Smith was murdered and they were run out of Illinois.

00:19:16.000 And Brigham Young led these dudes, men and women, on foot across the plains in the winter to Salt Lake Valley, which was this...

00:19:26.000 Desolate wasteland.

00:19:28.000 And he said, oh, we'll stay here.

00:19:30.000 They'll never come for us here.

00:19:32.000 And they started coming. 1.00

00:19:33.000 And Brigham Young basically said, fuck it. 1.00

00:19:36.000 We're not taking it anymore. 1.00

00:19:37.000 He built his own army, the Naboo Legion.

00:19:40.000 And he said, we're staying here.

00:19:42.000 We won't mess with you.

00:19:44.000 But if you come after us, we will fight.

00:19:46.000 And that point I think is interesting.

00:19:50.000 And I think Brigham Young...

00:19:52.000 Who survived longer than all of them.

00:19:55.000 And if you go to Salt Lake City, he did a pretty good job, right?

00:19:59.000 That's a big city, man.

00:20:01.000 It's a great city.

00:20:01.000 And I don't know.

00:20:03.000 I respect the Mormon religion.

00:20:06.000 I respect Brigham Young.

00:20:08.000 And I feel like we make him look like a gangster in American Primeval.

00:20:15.000 And I don't know.

00:20:18.000 He's a survivor, and I respect that.

00:20:20.000 Well, this is the reality of historical figures.

00:20:25.000 You're talking about a different time in the world, and it was a particularly barbaric time.

00:20:31.000 And if you wanted to survive, this is what you had to do.

00:20:34.000 And we're not talking about the United States in 2025. We're talking about the Wild West.

00:20:40.000 And you're talking about a persecuted group of religious people.

00:20:45.000 Like, if you want to survive, you want your children to survive.

00:20:48.000 You gotta fight.

00:20:48.000 You gotta take up arms.

00:20:49.000 That's just how it is.

00:20:50.000 Like, you know the story about the Mormons in Mexico, right?

00:20:53.000 Remind me.

00:20:54.000 Well, there's Mormon sects in Mexico that moved there when they made polygamy illegal.

00:21:04.000 And this was a homeboy from Massachusetts, Mitt Romney.

00:21:09.000 His family is from Mexico.

00:21:12.000 His father was born in Mexico.

00:21:14.000 And his father could never be president because he wasn't born in America.

00:21:17.000 And he was born here in America, ran for president, the whole deal, became governor of Massachusetts. 0.99

00:21:22.000 But there's still these huge groups in Mexico that are armed to the fucking tits because they're always constantly battling with the cartel. 0.99

00:21:32.000 And there was a series of murders a few years back where a woman and children, like family, were slaughtered. 0.99

00:21:40.000 Some confusion as to whether or not the cartel targeted them or whether it was a case of mistaken identity or what happened.

00:21:47.000 But, you know, there's been documentaries about them.

00:21:51.000 They live in armed compounds in Mexico.

00:21:54.000 So it's a similar sort of a situation with them in Mexico now.

00:22:00.000 I mean, the polygamy was a thing. 0.98

00:22:03.000 And, you know, we do touch upon that a bit in Primeval.

00:22:09.000 40-odd wives. 1.00

00:22:11.000 Nice. 0.99

00:22:14.000 How do you fucking keep up with two? 0.99

00:22:16.000 I don't understand how someone could have two wives. 0.99

00:22:19.000 That's a whole other conversation.

00:22:21.000 I mean, I have a friend who lives in Saudi Arabia.

00:22:25.000 And a long time ago, I was in Saudi Arabia doing some work.

00:22:29.000 And I'd asked him, because in Saudi, you can have multiple wives.

00:22:34.000 And I'd asked him about that and sort of like, wow, that's amazing.

00:22:39.000 Multiple wives. 0.77

00:22:40.000 That's so cool.

00:22:41.000 And we were leaving Riyadh Airport and he was walking with me and there was a man in front of us and he was holding like five suitcases and he could barely walk.

00:22:51.000 And there were four women around him and kids everywhere.

00:22:55.000 And he just looked like he was about to collapse and fall face forward on the ground at the airport in Riyadh.

00:23:01.000 And my friend looked at me and said, This is the reality of what having five wives looks like on the ground if you want to see what it really feels like.

00:23:11.000 So to think about Brigham Young having 45 wives, okay, good luck, I guess. 0.95

00:23:22.000 Right?

00:23:23.000 Yeah.

00:23:24.000 But that was one of the issues, the polygamy that... 0.99

00:23:30.000 People that were non-Mormons back in the 1850s were using to attack the religion.

00:23:35.000 And, you know, that was something that was—the polygamy has obviously been since outlawed, and the church has cut itself off from that policy.

00:23:45.000 But, you know, the Mormons were—the whole idea that this kid, Joseph Smith, I believe he was a young teenager, 14, when he and his buddy walked into these woods.

00:23:58.000 I mean, like, late 1830s, right?

00:24:02.000 I think it was 1820. When did Joseph Smith supposedly find these golden tablets?

00:24:08.000 I believe it was.

00:24:10.000 But either way, early.

00:24:13.000 Brigham Young had 56. There's a photo of you.

00:24:16.000 Is this 16?

00:24:17.000 He forgot about it.

00:24:18.000 See, I didn't want to oversell it, so I understood it.

00:24:22.000 I kind of knew it was in the 50s.

00:24:24.000 He had 56 wives.

00:24:25.000 46 kids.

00:24:27.000 Only 46 kids made it to adulthood.

00:24:30.000 That's part of why.

00:24:31.000 Oh, wow.

00:24:32.000 Only 46. He's basically Genghis Khan of Utah.

00:24:38.000 1823, he was visited by an angel who directed a Momodo Berry book.

00:24:41.000 1823?

00:24:42.000 And how old was he?

00:24:44.000 Like 14. So this kid at 14 comes out of the woods and says, the angel came and told me that the Bible's almost right, but it's not quite right.

00:24:55.000 So I'm going to rewrite it, which he did, the Book of Mormon.

00:24:58.000 And look at where we are today.

00:25:00.000 It was not that long ago, right?

00:25:03.000 And in the course of that...

00:25:05.000 Journey from Joseph Smith coming out of the woods to where we are today with Brigham Young University and the beautiful city of Salt Lake City, Utah, there was a lot of bloodshed.

00:25:18.000 And Joseph Smith was murdered.

00:25:21.000 Brigham Young fought another interesting theory that isn't proven, but I believe it holds.

00:25:30.000 It was what saved the Mormons.

00:25:32.000 Because in 1857, when you had the Mormon Wars, Brigham Young was fighting President Buchanan, and when the military was coming after him in 1857, and he was holed up and prepared to fight in Salt Lake City, and Buchanan wanted him out.

00:25:48.000 And then right around 1858, 1859, a little thing called the Civil War popped off, and the entire focus of the U.S. military was...

00:25:58.000 Not on Brigham Young and Utah, but it was on fighting the Civil War.

00:26:03.000 The Utah church was able and Brigham Young was able to grow the Mormon church and survive and thrive.

00:26:11.000 And he was able to politically negotiate a place in the government so that by the time the Civil War ended.

00:26:18.000 Brigham Young was deeply entrenched and was able to lead the Mormon church to the great power that it is today.

00:26:25.000 I think if the Civil War hadn't occurred, there would be no Mormonism in the United States. 0.99

00:26:31.000 Wow.

00:26:31.000 That's crazy.

00:26:32.000 What a fortuitous turn of events.

00:26:34.000 And I'm going to probably get ripped on for that one, but I believe it's supportable.

00:26:38.000 Yeah, you're going to get ripped for everything.

00:26:40.000 That's okay.

00:26:41.000 That's just how it is.

00:26:42.000 Mormons are the nicest people.

00:26:44.000 My next-door neighbors used to be Mormons. 1.00

00:26:46.000 They're the nicest fucking people. 0.99

00:26:47.000 I agree. 0.99

00:26:48.000 I completely agree.

00:26:50.000 They're so nice.

00:26:51.000 I know a ton of Mormons because I know a bunch of people in Utah.

00:26:54.000 And Salt Lake City, Utah is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful state.

00:26:59.000 Salt Lake City is a cool city.

00:27:01.000 And I'm down with the Sundance Film Festival.

00:27:04.000 So I'm down with the whole state.

00:27:06.000 Yeah.

00:27:07.000 No, I love Utah.

00:27:08.000 But it is a fascinating story.

00:27:10.000 And it's, you know...

00:27:12.000 Look, they have a great sense of humor because the Book of Mormon, when Matt Stone and Trey Parker did that musical, they took out a full-page ad in the playbook.

00:27:23.000 So they're like, if you want to know more about Mormonism, come visit.

00:27:27.000 Like, find out the real thing. 0.99

00:27:28.000 So instead of protesting and suing and attacking them, they just took out a fucking ad. 0.99

00:27:36.000 So when I was doing... 0.99

00:27:37.000 I think that shows...

00:27:40.000 Incredible character.

00:27:41.000 For sure.

00:27:43.000 You've seen the Book of Mormon, right?

00:27:45.000 Yes, I have.

00:27:46.000 Hilarious.

00:27:46.000 And pretty brutal.

00:27:48.000 And they're like, well, if you'd like to find out more about Mormonism.

00:27:51.000 Yeah, I can't figure out.

00:27:53.000 When I was doing my research for American Primeval, I went to Salt Lake City, and the Mormon church... 1.00

00:28:02.000 Gave me a tour.

00:28:03.000 And, you know, I told them what the film was about and that the Mountain Meadows Massacre was in the book or was it going to be in our show.

00:28:10.000 And they took me to the theater.

00:28:13.000 Have you ever been to the theater, the Mormon Theater in Salt Lake City?

00:28:16.000 No.

00:28:16.000 Holds like 20,000 people.

00:28:18.000 It is the most beautiful, incredible theater where they have, you know, weekly.

00:28:24.000 You know, events and meetings and they took me in there and there's a huge pipe organ and I had a private, you know, concert with their organist.

00:28:32.000 Yeah, it's that.

00:28:33.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:28:33.000 Look at that place. 0.71

00:28:35.000 And I sat by myself in the center of that theater and you see the pipe organs.

00:28:41.000 Yeah.

00:28:42.000 And they gave me a private...

00:28:44.000 You know, concert.

00:28:46.000 And then they took me into the museum and showed me, you know, the history of the Mormon Church.

00:28:51.000 And I told them about the Meadows Massacre, which, you know, I've taken heat for in the show.

00:28:56.000 And at the end of the tour, there's a bookstore in the museum, the Mormon Museum in Salt Lake.

00:29:03.000 And the book, Mountain Meadows Massacre, by this guy Turley was there.

00:29:08.000 And I'm like, I want to buy this book.

00:29:10.000 I read the book, and I'm like, oh, for sure we're putting this story in our film.

00:29:15.000 And it was for sale in the Mormon bookstore.

00:29:19.000 And I met with the author, Turley, who then took me to the site of the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

00:29:25.000 And he had written the book with the support of the Mormon church to get their side of the story out.

00:29:32.000 Did you film at the actual site?

00:29:33.000 No, we didn't.

00:29:34.000 The actual site was in Utah.

00:29:36.000 But I went and toured it.

00:29:38.000 You filmed in New Mexico?

00:29:39.000 Yeah, we filmed everything on different reservations around Santa Fe.

00:29:45.000 But if you go to the site of the Mormon Meadows Massacre in Utah...

00:29:51.000 The Mormons have built a big memorial there honoring 130 pioneers from Arkansas who were killed there.

00:29:58.000 And the Mormons have owned this event, and they were very willing to talk about it, which is kind of like them buying a full-page ad in Book of Mormon.

00:30:08.000 They're like, you know, we know you're going to make a film about the Meadows Massacre.

00:30:14.000 It's probably going to be inflammatory in some ways.

00:30:17.000 Come visit us.

00:30:18.000 We want to meet you.

00:30:19.000 We want to show you.

00:30:21.000 We want to play music for you.

00:30:23.000 And I had an incredible time with the Mormons that were involved with us doing the research for Primeval.

00:30:32.000 This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog.

00:30:35.000 I've been asking dog-owning friends what they feed their dogs, and most of them are surprised by the question.

00:30:40.000 And I get it.

00:30:41.000 For decades, kibble was the only option.

00:30:44.000 But as humans have been eating healthier, companies like the Farmer's Dog started feeding dogs healthier too.

00:30:50.000 Because when your dog eats freshly made, human-grade food, owners notice a bunch of positive changes, including weight loss and higher energy levels.

00:30:59.000 Basically, happier dogs.

00:31:02.000 Did you know that overweight dogs can live an average of 2.5 years less?

00:31:07.000 And did you know that 60% of dogs are overweight?

00:31:11.000 So when my friends say, I just feed my dog kibble or whatever, I tell them, no, you've got to think about this one.

00:31:16.000 You have to try the farmer's dog because no one, dog or human, should be eating highly processed food for every meal.

00:31:24.000 So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of healthy, freshly made food plus free shipping.

00:31:32.000 Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan.

00:31:36.000 Tap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more.

00:31:39.000 The offer is for new customers only.

00:31:42.000 So what is the backlash, though?

00:31:43.000 If they've admitted that this massacre took place and it's part of the historical record, the book is for sale in this Mormon theater, what is the backlash?

00:31:53.000 The biggest single issue, if you get into the weeds, and I think it's an interesting point of debate, is whether or not Brigham Young knew and authorized this massacre.

00:32:05.000 And the way the massacre played out in real life was different how we did it in the film.

00:32:09.000 In the film, we did it.

00:32:11.000 In, you know, one swell move.

00:32:13.000 Like, it just happens.

00:32:14.000 And, you know, we filmed it in one shot.

00:32:16.000 And it's, you know, pretty intense, visceral, very fast events.

00:32:21.000 And then it's over.

00:32:21.000 In reality, this wagon train was surrounded by the Mormon militia, the Naboo Legion, and some of these Native Americans.

00:32:29.000 And it went on for about four or five days.

00:32:32.000 And the Mormons dressed up as Native Americans. 0.96

00:32:35.000 This is where it gets kind of...

00:32:38.000 Some Mormons aren't thrilled that we pointed out the fact that they were trying to put the blame on the Native Americans.

00:32:44.000 So they literally, Mormons dressed up as Indians to confuse the pioneers and in case there were survivors to say, oh, it wasn't Mormons, it was the Native Americans that did this. 0.52

00:32:54.000 So they don't love that. 0.95

00:32:57.000 What the Mormons claim, or some in the Mormon church claim, is that during the three or four days that the siege took place, before the actual massacre, and the details of the massacre are really fucked up, because the Mormons pretended they were accepting a surrender. 0.99

00:33:11.000 So they went in with white flags and they said, okay, the men walked this way, the women and children, we're going to walk you to safety because the Indians are going to kill you. 0.97

00:33:19.000 The Mormons said, we're here to save you.

00:33:21.000 So they started walking them out, and then on someone's signal, they just killed everyone. 0.88

00:33:26.000 Really bad.

00:33:28.000 But the issue of whether Brigham Young knew about it or didn't know about it, we imply that he knew about it.

00:33:35.000 We never say that he authorized it, but we imply that he did know about it.

00:33:40.000 And what many of the defenders of Brigham Young will say is that there was a letter written where Brigham Young said, do not harm these pioneers.

00:33:51.000 Don't kill them.

00:33:52.000 But the letter was...

00:33:54.000 Sent by horse while the massacre, while the event was already occurring.

00:33:59.000 So I've had people say he knew that that letter wasn't going to make it there in time.

00:34:03.000 He was covering himself.

00:34:05.000 Oh, hey, I wrote a letter.

00:34:06.000 I knew I couldn't get there in time, but I wrote a letter so there's plausible deniability.

00:34:11.000 No one knows.

00:34:12.000 It's hard to believe if you really start getting into this, and obviously I did. 0.97

00:34:16.000 I know it's not on the top of everyone's list of things to give a fuck about. 0.58

00:34:21.000 But it's really hard for me to believe that in 1857, a group of Brigham Young soldiers would act unilaterally on their own and commit a crime that's horrible without somebody approving it. 0.90

00:34:33.000 It's hard for me to imagine.

00:34:36.000 So that's the single issue that tends to, you know, if I do, and I really try not to.

00:34:45.000 My girlfriend's turned me on to Reddit.

00:34:47.000 I never even really knew what it was.

00:34:49.000 Oh, my God.

00:34:51.000 Like, I don't...

00:34:52.000 Like, what? 1.00

00:34:53.000 Like, Reddit is fucking crazy. 1.00

00:34:56.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:34:58.000 I was talking to...

00:35:00.000 You know Jack Carr, right?

00:35:02.000 Mm-hmm.

00:35:03.000 He's getting into, you know, making movies, and he's doing all this cool stuff at the Terminalist, and I think he's a great guy.

00:35:09.000 And he was talking to me about...

00:35:12.000 Reviews, because it was the first time he was ever getting reviewed, right?

00:35:15.000 And, you know, any filmmaker who says they don't read the reviews is lying, okay? 0.99

00:35:20.000 They're just fucking lying. 0.96

00:35:22.000 And we do read reviews, and we care, and they hurt, you know? 0.99

00:35:27.000 And he's like, I guess he'd gotten, you know, read something he didn't like on The Terminalist, and he's just... 0.99

00:35:34.000 He called me and said, how do you handle this shit? 1.00

00:35:36.000 I want to kill this mother. 1.00

00:35:39.000 And he's freaking out. 1.00

00:35:41.000 He wasn't really freaking out that bad, but he was pissed.

00:35:45.000 And I'm like, Jack, welcome to the world of what we do.

00:35:49.000 People are going to talk.

00:35:51.000 I'm like, you don't understand what, like before Reddit and comments and all the things, back when we first put movies out.

00:36:01.000 Man, there were three critics that mattered.

00:36:04.000 Like, when I first started making movies, there was this guy, Kenneth Turan, in the L.A. Times.

00:36:10.000 There was Janet Maslin in the New York Times.

00:36:12.000 And then there was Siskel and Ebert, right?

00:36:14.000 And, like, they had so much power, right?

00:36:18.000 So you'd make a movie, and you'd spend tens of millions of dollars, and you'd put your heart and soul in.

00:36:25.000 We never try to make bad movies, right?

00:36:27.000 That's never the goal.

00:36:30.000 I want to win.

00:36:31.000 It's hard to make a good movie. 0.98

00:36:33.000 But you put all your heart and soul into these movies and then it's fucking three critics that control your fate, right? 0.91

00:36:42.000 And I was telling Carr about, you know, my first movie was called Very Bad Things. 0.98

00:36:48.000 It was about this bachelor party that goes haywire.

00:36:51.000 That's a great movie.

00:36:51.000 Appreciate it.

00:36:52.000 Thank you.

00:36:53.000 I love that movie.

00:36:53.000 So that movie.

00:36:55.000 Got, hands down, the worst review ever given to a movie in the history of film reviews.

00:37:02.000 Please don't pull it up right now.

00:37:04.000 But feel free, anyone listening, Kenneth Turan's review of my film Very Bad Things in the Los Angeles Times.

00:37:10.000 Okay.

00:37:11.000 I read this review.

00:37:13.000 I literally vomit.

00:37:15.000 Like, people talk about vomiting.

00:37:16.000 I don't know if you've ever vomited when something bad happens.

00:37:19.000 I puked.

00:37:20.000 I went into, like, shock.

00:37:22.000 I'm like, he tried to destroy my career.

00:37:25.000 And he, like, it was, and so I'm telling Jack, and I'm going, pull it up right now.

00:37:30.000 Pull it up.

00:37:31.000 And he starts reading it, and he's like, oh, my God.

00:37:37.000 Oh, my God. 0.97

00:37:39.000 I go, don't fucking tell me about bad reviews, okay? 0.98

00:37:42.000 Because I got the worst. 0.94

00:37:44.000 And Kenneth Turan, who, like, after I'd gotten that review, I was in a I was in a bar at the Four Seasons Hotel in Los Angeles, getting drunk with a couple of my friends, and Kenneth Turin was in the bar, and I got up and started moving towards him.

00:37:59.000 Like, I was in a blackout rage.

00:38:01.000 And my friend Joe and Mike Mendelsohn held me back, because I was gonna get him, you know?

00:38:09.000 And for three films after that, Kenneth Turan, he just had it out for me, this guy.

00:38:15.000 Hated me.

00:38:16.000 And finally on, I believe it was either Friday Night Lights or Lone Survivor, he reluctantly gave me a good review.

00:38:24.000 But it was more like a broken clock is right twice a day.

00:38:28.000 But nowadays, as I said to Jack, it's like, okay.

00:38:34.000 If you – the crazy thing about if you are focusing on how your work is being perceived and it matters and it does matter.

00:38:41.000 Like I say, anyone who says it doesn't I think is kind of lying.

00:38:46.000 Don't you think it matters more about the audience than about the critics?

00:38:50.000 A hundred percent.

00:38:51.000 My perspective on critics is that no one wants to be a critic.

00:38:55.000 Generally, they wanted to be creative but they're not good enough.

00:38:59.000 For sure.

00:39:00.000 To contribute.

00:39:00.000 For sure.

00:39:01.000 They don't have anything to contribute.

00:39:02.000 And they're using a different standard that doesn't really apply to just like the working human being.

00:39:08.000 Right.

00:39:08.000 It just wants to be entertained.

00:39:10.000 And that's why I said to Jack, I go, dude, like, you know, we have rotten tomatoes, right?

00:39:14.000 Which is a way of, you know, critics, if you get 61% good, you get a fresh tomato.

00:39:21.000 If not, you're, you know, you've got a rotten tomato. 0.98

00:39:24.000 And that sucks. 0.98

00:39:25.000 Okay, I've got a rotten tomato. 0.99

00:39:27.000 That sucks. 0.71

00:39:28.000 Oh, I got a fresh tomato. 0.99

00:39:29.000 Oh, that's great.

00:39:30.000 But now they have the audience score right next to the critic score.

00:39:34.000 Yeah.

00:39:35.000 And that's the one that I said, Jack, don't look at the critics.

00:39:38.000 Look at what your audience is saying.

00:39:40.000 And that's when, you know.

00:39:41.000 I learned about Reddit and all that stuff. 1.00

00:39:44.000 And I'm like, fuck the critics. 1.00

00:39:46.000 I'm down with this Reddit shit. 1.00

00:39:48.000 Because you get such interesting conversations. 0.99

00:39:51.000 And they're much more thoughtful, I think.

00:39:55.000 And they've taken away the power.

00:39:58.000 You know, and I'm not shitting on critics.

00:40:00.000 I get it.

00:40:01.000 You want to be a critic?

00:40:02.000 Whatever, you know.

00:40:03.000 I do like the quote about critics and life doesn't go to the critic.

00:40:09.000 It's the man in the arena.

00:40:10.000 I like that quote and I believe in that.

00:40:13.000 And I've used that to justify my mood when I get a bad review.

00:40:17.000 I'll just read the man in the arena over and over until I feel good.

00:40:21.000 Is that Theodore Roosevelt?

00:40:22.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:24.000 That's a great quote.

00:40:25.000 Great quote.

00:40:26.000 Fantastic quote.

00:40:26.000 And it's true.

00:40:27.000 It is absolutely true.

00:40:29.000 That, you know, to do, to do, people that do, you know, I was just talking to Dana White about something that I actually want to mention to you.

00:40:47.000 My love of a guy like Dana is the doer of it all.

00:40:52.000 The guy who just says, I don't care what the critic says.

00:40:56.000 I'm going this way. 0.98

00:40:57.000 I am fucking going this way. 0.98

00:40:59.000 And if I win and you're with me on the ride, you're part of me. 0.98

00:41:03.000 If I lose and you're still with me, you're my friend. 0.99

00:41:07.000 If not, I don't give a fuck. 0.99

00:41:08.000 I'm going to do it again. 0.99

00:41:10.000 And I have so much respect for that.

00:41:13.000 And I'll tell you another interesting thing about my business.

00:41:19.000 It always surprises me how real it is.

00:41:23.000 But when you make something, a movie, or you do something, whether it's an American premiere or almost anything I've done, and I don't know if you've ever experienced this, you put yourself on the line so intensely, and you believe in it with your heart and your soul, and you go for it.

00:41:40.000 And as it's getting ready to come out, There's this weird thing that happens where everybody separates from you.

00:41:47.000 And you're the one that's kind of, now you're about to be judged.

00:41:51.000 It's going to be determined to be successful or a failure.

00:41:54.000 It's going to get reviewed.

00:41:56.000 And everyone's kind of like, good luck, Pete.

00:42:01.000 Good luck.

00:42:02.000 And I could like, like the day or two before it comes out, all the people like, and this is when you know who's got your back.

00:42:11.000 Because there's a few, you look around, and you're like, wait, all these people were with me for this journey, and I'm all by my fucking, where'd everybody go?

00:42:20.000 And it's, you know, like, my sister, my best friend, Ari, my dog, my son, there's a few people who are really right there.

00:42:32.000 And then when it comes out and it works, man, you have a lot of friends.

00:42:40.000 And that's, you know, just one of the things that you have to do in this business. 1.00

00:42:47.000 And it's why the critics fuck them. 0.98

00:42:49.000 And it's why Dana and people like that, you, who do, you know, create it and build it and make it. 0.99

00:42:57.000 And it's real.

00:43:00.000 You definitely need feedback because you definitely need to know if you're on the right track.

00:43:04.000 But you can get lost in feedback.

00:43:06.000 You can get lost in positive feedback, too.

00:43:08.000 You can get lost in people approving you.

00:43:13.000 You can get drunk in it.

00:43:15.000 I don't read anything.

00:43:17.000 I don't read anything about me.

00:43:18.000 No Reddit ever?

00:43:20.000 Nothing.

00:43:20.000 I don't read anything.

00:43:21.000 I get it.

00:43:23.000 Sometimes I'm good.

00:43:24.000 Sometimes I'm not as good.

00:43:25.000 I get it.

00:43:26.000 I do my best.

00:43:28.000 That's all I can do.

00:43:29.000 And I feel like if you're really self-critical...

00:43:32.000 Which I am, and you're objective, and you analyze yourself, and you're brutally honest.

00:43:39.000 You have to be brutally honest about what you've done and how it is.

00:43:43.000 Could you have done it better?

00:43:45.000 Did you cut corners?

00:43:47.000 And if you don't, if you don't cut corners, and if you do your best, and you really prepare, that's all you can do.

00:43:53.000 You just do your very best.

00:43:54.000 And if you haven't done your best, that's when the critics really sting.

00:43:57.000 If you know that you...

00:43:59.000 Kind of slacked off or you weren't focused or there's something that was wrong with what you...

00:44:03.000 Or you did it for the money.

00:44:05.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:06.000 That can often...

00:44:07.000 Yes.

00:44:07.000 I agree with that.

00:44:08.000 To do it for the money is a real one.

00:44:10.000 I mean, that's the downfall of Robert De Niro.

00:44:13.000 Yeah.

00:44:14.000 Right?

00:44:14.000 He needs money for divorces.

00:44:16.000 He's got marital problems. 0.99

00:44:18.000 So I spend a lot of money and he starts doing these fantasy movies with Michelle Pfeiffer and it's like bizarre shit where he's like, what is Robert De Niro, one of the greatest actors of all time, doing in these fucking goofy ass movies? 0.98

00:44:30.000 I agree with you that like what I always say is I do a lot of research for my films and you know Went to Iraq with Navy SEAL Platoon and lived on an oil rig and went back to high school for Friday Night Lights. 0.86

00:44:45.000 And I found that if I, whenever I put that work in and I put that research in, and I really, with the exception of Very Bad Things, which was a fantasy about a bachelor party gone haywire, which Kenneth Turin didn't like.

00:45:00.000 It did hurt me.

00:45:01.000 It did, that review.

00:45:02.000 But I was younger.

00:45:04.000 But if I do stay true to my instincts and my passion and I follow it, A, the work seems to connect much, much better.

00:45:14.000 And I don't feel if somebody doesn't like it or wants to talk about it or debate it, okay.

00:45:20.000 It doesn't hurt me.

00:45:23.000 Yeah, that's experience, right?

00:45:24.000 I think so, yeah.

00:45:25.000 And anytime I've done a job for the money, and there have been a couple, it's backfired horrifically.

00:45:32.000 And the money was never worth it.

00:45:35.000 The reviews did sting worse.

00:45:40.000 Because you agreed with them.

00:45:41.000 Yeah, they were right.

00:45:42.000 I was lazy. 0.99

00:45:43.000 I didn't give a fuck. 0.99

00:45:46.000 I cared. 0.99

00:45:47.000 I didn't phone it in, but I wasn't locked in.

00:45:50.000 Right.

00:45:51.000 That's the difference, right?

00:45:52.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:45:53.000 And I think one of the reasons that you don't have to read your shit is because you know you're locked in. 1.00

00:45:59.000 You just are. 0.99

00:46:00.000 And that's why you're connecting.

00:46:04.000 And locking in.

00:46:07.000 And I say it to filmmakers now because kids are so confused, young kids that want to become filmmakers.

00:46:15.000 They think they're going to work hard and they're going to make these movies and they're going to put their heart and soul into them and people are going to watch them.

00:46:22.000 And then they go in and they see TikTok videos that are getting 400 million likes and someone's just live streaming them like making toast. 0.98

00:46:34.000 They're like, wait a minute, what the fuck is happening? 0.90

00:46:37.000 And I say, look, all you can do... 0.98

00:46:39.000 Is control your passion, your work, your discipline, and believe in something and put the work in, and I believe that the results will take care of themselves.

00:46:53.000 But it's weird for filmmakers today to try and figure out what's going to penetrate and what's not going to penetrate.

00:47:02.000 Yeah.

00:47:03.000 I remember when I did that series about...

00:47:09.000 Opioids, painkiller.

00:47:10.000 And, you know, that pretty heavy issue, and we worked really hard on that, and I was very, very proud of it.

00:47:17.000 And, you know, we came out number one on Netflix, and we were number one for like six, seven days around the world.

00:47:23.000 And on the eighth day, we were number two.

00:47:25.000 And the number one show was a documentary made on cell phone footage about the Johnny Depp.

00:47:32.000 Amber Heard divorce trial, where people were just in the parking lots.

00:47:36.000 And that was the number one show on Netflix in the world.

00:47:39.000 And I'm like, whoa, wow.

00:47:43.000 They probably made that for $25,000.

00:47:47.000 And everything is sort of, there's this great parody now.

00:47:51.000 And it's confusing, but I'm like, dude, you just have to work harder if you're not telling the truth.

00:48:00.000 You're going to have a harder time.

00:48:02.000 You can't be in the business of getting the most attention because human beings...

00:48:09.000 We are easily distracted, easily amused.

00:48:11.000 We like a lot of things that have zero quality.

00:48:14.000 And just because we're watching it doesn't mean it resonates with us.

00:48:16.000 Just because you're watching the Amber Heard trial doesn't mean it's changing the way you feel about things, really entertaining you. 0.93

00:48:22.000 And not just entertaining you, but stimulating you in a way like, wow, that was a fucking masterful piece of cinema. 0.53

00:48:31.000 There's a difference. 0.89

00:48:33.000 And yeah, there's going to be a bunch of people that just watch people unbox cell phones or eat.

00:48:39.000 Octopus.

00:48:39.000 There's weird videos that get a lot of likes.

00:48:42.000 But you're not in the business of attention.

00:48:44.000 You're in the business of art.

00:48:46.000 And I feel like when it comes to paying attention to comments and critics, I feel like if you're locked in and if you're doing your best, if you're one of those people that don't need to be checked on...

00:49:00.000 Some people need to be checked on.

00:49:02.000 Some people get off the rails, they get a little full of themselves, and they need a little something to just like set them back. 0.94

00:49:07.000 You need someone to say, that one sucked. 0.99

00:49:09.000 You're like, God damn it. 1.00

00:49:10.000 And then you work harder. 0.99

00:49:11.000 But if you're working as hard as you can...

00:49:14.000 This is my advice that I give comedians when it comes to comments and things like that and negativity.

00:49:20.000 You only have so much attention.

00:49:23.000 And think of your attention as if it was a number.

00:49:27.000 Like you have 100 units of attention.

00:49:30.000 Now if you're spending 30 units...

00:49:33.000 Paying attention to comments and negative articles and criticism, that's 30 units you can't use for something that you love.

00:49:43.000 And then also it probably bleeds into your thoughts when you're doing those things that you do love, particularly like devastating negative reviews and comments and things that are like really hurt you, that hurt your feelings.

00:49:57.000 It takes a lot of numbers.

00:49:58.000 Yeah.

00:49:58.000 It takes a lot of numbers.

00:50:01.000 Bandwidth.

00:50:01.000 You're robbing yourself of your ability to do the things that you love.

00:50:06.000 You're robbing yourself of your ability to pay attention to your family, your ability to contact your friends and reach out and to be present.

00:50:15.000 Because you're thinking, oh my god, I can't believe he hated my movie.

00:50:18.000 Oh my god, I can't believe I bombed. 0.99

00:50:20.000 Oh my god, I can't believe this podcast sucked. 0.99

00:50:23.000 Whatever it is. 1.00

00:50:24.000 You're robbing yourself.

00:50:26.000 You can only do your best.

00:50:28.000 And if you're not doing your best, you probably need those comments. 0.69

00:50:31.000 You need something to wake you the fuck up and get locked in.

00:50:35.000 But if you're locked in, you don't want it. 0.62

00:50:38.000 You should know.

00:50:39.000 I know if I talk too much.

00:50:41.000 I know if I interrupt too much.

00:50:43.000 I know.

00:50:43.000 And I'll drive home and I'm like, ugh.

00:50:46.000 I hate it.

00:50:46.000 You don't need to be reminded of that.

00:50:48.000 I don't need it. 1.00

00:50:49.000 I fucking hate me. 0.99

00:50:50.000 I'm my number one critic. 1.00

00:50:53.000 I don't pay attention.

00:50:55.000 And this is something that I had to figure out over the years.

00:50:58.000 But when I knocked it down to a formula of attention bandwidth, that's when I really understood it.

00:51:05.000 Because I'm like, okay, the times, even distractions, like the times that I'm spending...

00:51:12.000 Just scrolling through Instagram and looking at nonsense.

00:51:15.000 Like, that hour is a valuable hour to me.

00:51:18.000 I could have been doing, like, real good things with that hour where I feel good about it.

00:51:22.000 Or I get nothing.

00:51:24.000 Just distraction.

00:51:26.000 Just nothing. 0.99

00:51:26.000 Which is fine sometimes if you're on a fucking airplane or something like that. 0.99

00:51:30.000 You got nothing to do. 0.99

00:51:31.000 Like, who cares?

00:51:31.000 Is it really ever fine, do you think?

00:51:33.000 I think it's okay sometimes.

00:51:34.000 But barely, barely.

00:51:35.000 As a comedian, I think there's a value in having your thumb on the pulse of culture. 1.00

00:51:41.000 And even the chaotic, you know, fucking unboxing videos and food and stupid shit and people just sticking their ass out. 1.00

00:51:48.000 Right. 1.00

00:51:49.000 And insta-hoes. 1.00

00:51:50.000 Like, there's a value in keeping your thumb on it.

00:51:53.000 You just have to know when your thumb's getting burnt.

00:51:55.000 I don't think there's a value in insta-hoes. 1.00

00:51:57.000 Nah! 0.99

00:51:58.000 I don't.

00:51:59.000 I actually don't.

00:52:01.000 And I've gotten pretty good at, like, just removing that from my life.

00:52:05.000 But it was challenging.

00:52:06.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:52:07.000 The boxing, okay, yeah, people putting shit in boxes. 0.99

00:52:10.000 Maybe eating asparagus, I guess. 0.99

00:52:14.000 I do enjoy cooking videos.

00:52:16.000 I think there's value in that.

00:52:17.000 I love watching chefs prepare food.

00:52:19.000 Where do you stand on, and this is something I talk to a lot of writers and filmmakers about, just being quiet is really important.

00:52:30.000 And being, for me, the most creative...

00:52:34.000 Experiences I've ever had have come far away from any stimulation, from any controlled thinking, from allowing ideas to come, to have like the divine spirit, the angels that are creativity, that require a certain amount of quiet and space for those to emerge, at least for me they do.

00:52:58.000 And I try to make space because I so agree with the bandwidth.

00:53:04.000 You're right.

00:53:05.000 But more than anything, just turning it all off can be so inspiring for me creatively.

00:53:13.000 One of the most disappointing things that I've ever done, some of the most disappointing things, is when I sit down from my computer to write and I wind up looking at my phone. 0.82

00:53:22.000 And I just scroll and bullshit.

00:53:25.000 And then I start writing, but I'm distracted. 0.96

00:53:27.000 And then I get an email or a text message comes through.

00:53:29.000 I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll text him.

00:53:31.000 And I'm just distracting myself.

00:53:32.000 And then I realize, like, after an hour and a half, I just fucking wasted an hour and a half that I could have written something that could have been a new brilliant bit.

00:53:41.000 It could have been a new thing that I'm really excited about. 0.99

00:53:44.000 Instead, I just fucked off. 0.98

00:53:46.000 Yeah, so my creative process, like, I just wrote a script. 0.99

00:53:52.000 That'll be my next film.

00:53:54.000 And I wrote it in a very locked-in zone.

00:53:57.000 I try to find a way of locking myself into a pattern when I'm writing, but it involves...

00:54:03.000 The key for me is getting up about...

00:54:07.000 4.45 at the latest, but usually right around.

00:54:10.000 I'm crazy about it, so I'll set my alarm for 5.45 to the same song every morning that wakes me up.

00:54:16.000 This script was Van Morrison.

00:54:19.000 I'll take a piss, and then I'll get a cup of coffee, and then I'll go right to my writing room with no phone, no stimulation, nothing until I put in usually about two and a half to three hours of just pure mental focus.

00:54:36.000 No distraction, no conversation, no news, no phone, no nothing.

00:54:42.000 Why do you like to do it in the morning?

00:54:43.000 Because I think when you...

00:54:44.000 I actually like studying writers and their writing habits.

00:54:48.000 I believe that if you've had a good sleep, a sober sleep, and an intention sleep, meaning you go to bed with some plan of what you want to write tomorrow.

00:55:00.000 So I'm making a film about Marines.

00:55:03.000 I want to write...

00:55:04.000 The landing at Okinawa in World War II, which is part of the story.

00:55:09.000 I know I'm going to write the actual landing scene.

00:55:11.000 I go to bed with that intention.

00:55:12.000 I might even write that intention down.

00:55:15.000 You wake up.

00:55:16.000 Your mind is like at its most fertile.

00:55:19.000 It's like a calm...

00:55:21.000 You know, like a mountain pond that's absolutely flat and like glass and reflective and beautiful.

00:55:28.000 And in the morning, it's at its most calm, your mind.

00:55:32.000 And then I believe that every bit of stimulation you put into it is like a pebble or a rock being dropped into that water until the water starts getting all churned.

00:55:41.000 And that's what happens to our minds by, you know, 11 o'clock in the morning.

00:55:46.000 If you've been, you know, plugged in and communicating, your mind is... 1.00

00:55:50.000 Just a fucking feral, boiling cauldron of acid. 1.00

00:55:56.000 This is how I think of it. 1.00

00:55:58.000 So I like early morning, super calm, I can find the ideas.

00:56:03.000 And I tend to, if I lock in like that, I write at a high level and kind of to your point about like critic proof.

00:56:13.000 I know it's good.

00:56:15.000 Because I know it came from the deepest place I have.

00:56:19.000 And it's like, well, okay, if you don't like that, then you don't like me.

00:56:23.000 Sorry.

00:56:23.000 Which is fine.

00:56:24.000 Yeah, I can handle that.

00:56:29.000 You know, writing a little bit here, working a little bit there, and then going out to lunch and then sitting in a cafe and, you know, a coffee shop and kind of writing but being on the phone, I just don't think that's deep work.

00:56:41.000 Yeah.

00:56:41.000 I have noticed, though, that, like, rappers and a lot of people in the hip-hop community, I've been working on a documentary about Rihanna for quite a while and spent a lot of time with her in the studio.

00:56:56.000 It's amazing the hours that hip-hop performers, musicians, and rappers keep because they're going into the studio at 2 o'clock in the morning and working till 1 in the afternoon and then sleeping all day.

00:57:12.000 And that nighttime, and I've talked to her about it, she's just extremely creative late at night.

00:57:19.000 Almost, for me, the exact opposite.

00:57:21.000 Do you like to work creatively at night?

00:57:24.000 Yeah.

00:57:25.000 Can you write comedy at night?

00:57:26.000 Yeah, I write when I get home.

00:57:27.000 Wow.

00:57:28.000 Yeah, so what I do is I do shows, and then I come home, and everyone's asleep.

00:57:32.000 My whole house is asleep, so it's quiet.

00:57:34.000 And you can access?

00:57:35.000 Yeah, because my mind is really stimulated, because I just performed.

00:57:40.000 Maybe I've had a drink or two, and I sit in front of the computer, and I just start thinking.

00:57:45.000 Really?

00:57:46.000 Yeah, I just start thinking I just try to freestyle with thoughts and the way I write is I just I have a topic and I just start with just essentially an essay And not an essay that I think anybody's going to read.

00:57:58.000 An essay is just like my thoughts, just rambling thoughts.

00:58:02.000 And then maybe I'll rewrite a paragraph, but I'll keep the same paragraph above it to reference.

00:58:06.000 And then I'll rewrite it again in a different way.

00:58:08.000 But like what kind of subject?

00:58:09.000 Anything, whatever it is.

00:58:12.000 Technology, how it's affecting our lives, and what our future is going to be like.

00:58:16.000 And then I'll sit down with that and think about the pros and cons.

00:58:23.000 Hasn't every society faced this?

00:58:25.000 Like, would you want to go back and live in the caveman days again?

00:58:28.000 No, definitely not.

00:58:29.000 Do you want to live in a time with no penicillin?

00:58:31.000 No, no, no, no, no.

00:58:33.000 Like, so how much technology is too much technology?

00:58:36.000 And I'll just start writing.

00:58:37.000 And out of that, I'll get a bit.

00:58:40.000 Out of that, I mean, not always.

00:58:43.000 Maybe one out of ten times something's useful. 0.99

00:58:46.000 Like, there's a lot of times I'm just throwing shit against the wall, but the key is throw a lot of shit. 0.96

00:58:52.000 You have to throw a lot of things. 0.98

00:58:54.000 You know, Hemingway famously said, my friend Ari Shafiri has this on his laptop. 0.99

00:58:58.000 It says, the first draft of everything is shit. 0.99

00:59:01.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:59:02.000 I've heard it.

00:59:02.000 It's such a great quote.

00:59:03.000 It just sits on his laptop, and I love it.

00:59:05.000 I love that.

00:59:06.000 It's so true. 0.84

00:59:07.000 And I just write.

00:59:09.000 I just write.

00:59:09.000 But when you're writing, like, because I was just watching you as you were speaking, you were looking up at the sky, like, for an idea.

00:59:18.000 Do you think about your writing intellectually?

00:59:23.000 Okay, I'm thinking this thought, okay, I'm going to write it down.

00:59:26.000 Or are your hands on the keyboard and you're just channeling?

00:59:29.000 It's both.

00:59:30.000 You know, sometimes just sitting there thinking about it.

00:59:32.000 Before I write or in the middle of writing, like, is this right?

00:59:35.000 Am I correct?

00:59:36.000 Is this how I'm looking at this or am I trying to force this?

00:59:39.000 And then I also write on a computer that is not connected to any apps.

00:59:45.000 It doesn't have anything on it.

00:59:46.000 The only thing it has on it is it has, it's a mic, it's a ThinkPad.

00:59:51.000 So it has a...

00:59:52.000 So you can't distract yourself.

00:59:53.000 Right.

00:59:53.000 I can, I am allowed to Google things to find out if something's correct.

00:59:58.000 That's it.

00:59:58.000 I don't go to websites.

01:00:01.000 I don't look at it.

01:00:02.000 This laptop is just for writing.

01:00:04.000 It's connected to the internet, which is a tricky thing, but there's a rule.

01:00:08.000 So my home computer, there's no rules.

01:00:11.000 I might watch YouTube videos. 0.98

01:00:13.000 I might fucking watch a little Netflix. 0.98

01:00:16.000 It's, you know, iMac, so it's a big screen. 0.99

01:00:18.000 I might do all kinds of stuff on that computer.

01:00:20.000 But when I'm writing, my laptop is only for writing.

01:00:24.000 And so I don't allow myself, there's no TikTok, there's no Instagram, there's no nothing.

01:00:30.000 I don't ever look at anything else.

01:00:32.000 I just write. 1.00

01:00:34.000 And I use the browser, I use fucking Bing, which is like, who searches shit on Bing? 0.99

01:00:40.000 You know, it's good enough to find out what's real and what's not real. 0.99

01:00:45.000 That's the only time I use it.

01:00:46.000 That's it.

01:00:47.000 And do you experience, like, euphoria when you're writing on occasion?

01:00:51.000 Yeah.

01:00:51.000 Do you blow your mind?

01:00:53.000 Well, you know these ideas are not—they're coming from fucking the ether. 0.99

01:00:58.000 They're coming from somewhere. 0.95

01:00:59.000 I know that creativity is an individual thing and it varies, but for me, my best ideas seem to come out of nowhere.

01:01:08.000 It's like, I don't even know if they're my ideas.

01:01:11.000 They're coming from some place.

01:01:13.000 And this is the concept of the muse, right?

01:01:15.000 Like the muse is bestowing upon you these beautiful gifts of creativity.

01:01:19.000 Steven Pressfield.

01:01:21.000 Yes.

01:01:22.000 The War of Art.

01:01:23.000 Amazing book.

01:01:24.000 I've got a stack of them out there.

01:01:25.000 Yeah, I love him.

01:01:26.000 He's a big inspiration to me.

01:01:28.000 He's incredible.

01:01:29.000 And he's just a brilliant guy.

01:01:32.000 But that's where it's at.

01:01:34.000 It's just like... 0.98

01:01:35.000 And setting this table, showing up, and then trying to pull these things from this other dimension, just wherever the fuck they're coming from. 0.97

01:01:46.000 And then I get these little nuggets, and then the nuggets I transfer to my phone. 0.93

01:01:51.000 I feel bad for people who never get to experience that.

01:01:56.000 Yeah.

01:01:56.000 You know, I keep a necklace with a...

01:02:01.000 Dog tagging a quote from a William Blake poem.

01:02:03.000 And he said that has always just helped me quite a bit.

01:02:08.000 And it's, the only thing pleasing to God is the creation of beautiful and exalted things.

01:02:16.000 And I remember the first time I got to experience...

01:02:20.000 The power of writing and something.

01:02:23.000 It was like literally a religious experience.

01:02:25.000 I don't know what happened.

01:02:27.000 I kind of blacked out.

01:02:28.000 I lost track of time and I wrote eight pages.

01:02:31.000 And I looked at it and I'm like, I don't know where this came from.

01:02:35.000 And I read it and I blew my mind and I felt like I was having almost a religious experience.

01:02:43.000 Quote when I read it, the only thing pleasing to God is the creation of beautiful things.

01:02:48.000 The creation, being creative, and being able to please God through creativity.

01:02:55.000 Or have a religious, a mystical experience that's not drug-induced.

01:03:01.000 Through the power of your creativity.

01:03:06.000 I think it's the greatest thing in the world.

01:03:08.000 And it kind of saved my life.

01:03:09.000 Because if I hadn't found writing and filmmaking, I don't know what I would have done.

01:03:15.000 I wouldn't have been...

01:03:17.000 I mean...

01:03:18.000 I don't know.

01:03:19.000 Well, that's why it's for you because it feels so real and so powerful that without it you feel like your life would be lost.

01:03:26.000 Yeah, man.

01:03:26.000 Yeah, isn't that amazing?

01:03:27.000 That's an amazing thing to find as a human being.

01:03:30.000 If you can find something that you love so much that you can't imagine life without it, like that you would be lost.

01:03:36.000 Can I tell you about...

01:03:38.000 It's sort of a non sequitur, but I did want to...

01:03:42.000 I did want to mention, and it sort of related to something I love because I love boxing, and I own a boxing gym in Los Angeles, which was hands down the stupidest thing I ever decided to do in my life, was, oh, it would be cool to have a boxing gym and manage boxers, and, you know, no, don't, don't. 0.87

01:04:01.000 It's awful.

01:04:02.000 I mean, I love the fighters and have so much empathy, but...

01:04:06.000 One of my fighters, Chris Van Heerden, his girlfriend is a girl named Ksenia Carolina, who I think I told you a little bit about earlier when we were working out. 0.97

01:04:16.000 And this is just a fucked up story. 0.83

01:04:19.000 She's a 28-year-old American Russian citizen who made a $51 donation to a Ukrainian charity. 0.98

01:04:27.000 She went home a year ago to visit her family in Russia, and Putin got her.

01:04:32.000 And she's in prison now for 12 years. 1.00

01:04:35.000 What was the charity?

01:04:36.000 The charity was a Ukrainian charity based in America for Ukraine that she thought was going to give money to children that had been hurt by the war in Ukraine.

01:04:51.000 It's all very researchable.

01:04:54.000 And so she got put on a list?

01:04:58.000 She's a dual citizen.

01:04:59.000 She's an American citizen and a Russian.

01:05:02.000 She went to visit her parents a year ago in Russia.

01:05:05.000 And on her, somehow the Russians were able to figure out, like, if anyone with any Russian citizenship, even if it's dual, makes donations to certain charities, they get flagged.

01:05:16.000 So she came in, got to her parents' house.

01:05:20.000 Was called to the police station the next day, came in, and they arrested her and said, you donated $51.

01:05:29.000 This is treason.

01:05:31.000 And she's now almost a year into a 12-year sentence.

01:05:36.000 So President Trump has been super cool.

01:05:39.000 Dana White has been helping, just trying to get like, you know, it's such a crazy chess game, right?

01:05:49.000 That, you know, someone like, and I hope things go really well between us and Putin, and I think Trump's doing some great things, and I'm glad we're talking.

01:05:59.000 But the way they do business is different, and they will grab somebody, you know, and they've done it to Brittany Greiner, and they just released this guy, Fogel, who they had gotten for smoking weed.

01:06:11.000 If they can get you and hold you and use you as a bargaining chip.

01:06:16.000 They will.

01:06:17.000 And we don't do that.

01:06:19.000 You know, it's one of the things that the U.S. doesn't do.

01:06:21.000 But you end up having to make these kind of crazy swaps.

01:06:25.000 It's all about swapping, right?

01:06:26.000 So they get Ksenia and, well, who do we have that's going to, you know, get Putin to say, oh, yeah, I'm going to let her out. 0.62

01:06:35.000 Right.

01:06:35.000 Release that arms deal.

01:06:37.000 Yeah.

01:06:37.000 But the people that we have are like...

01:06:40.000 Pretty serious criminals. 0.84

01:06:42.000 The merchant of death.

01:06:42.000 The merchant of death for a basketball player smoking weed.

01:06:45.000 It's crazy, but, you know, if you love Brittany Griner, or know, like I know Ksenia, and my good friend is engaged to her, and he's in hell, and it's like, we need someone to trade, you know?

01:06:58.000 And so...

01:06:59.000 It's not going to feel right.

01:07:02.000 We're going to have to trade someone that's done some pretty bad things to get this girl out of prison, and that's the game that these guys are playing.

01:07:10.000 And it's not a game that you ever, ever want to get involved in, and I wish I hadn't, but I have.

01:07:17.000 And, you know, Ksenia is a beautiful girl, and she's in a really bad way, and she doesn't deserve it.

01:07:25.000 And it's so true that we don't do that in America because there's a lot of Russians that fight in the UFC and they don't even get booed.

01:07:31.000 No one even cares.

01:07:33.000 They love them.

01:07:33.000 Especially when they're really good.

01:07:34.000 People get excited.

01:07:35.000 Khabib is...

01:07:36.000 Sure.

01:07:37.000 I mean, we don't do it.

01:07:40.000 And that's, you know, we take... 0.99

01:07:42.000 America takes a lot of shit and maybe what we deserve and what we don't. 0.99

01:07:47.000 But we don't do that. 1.00

01:07:48.000 We don't detain 28-year-old, you know...

01:07:54.000 Ballerinas for smoking weed and throw them in prison for 15 years, 20 years. 1.00

01:07:59.000 We don't take people and say, well, you donated $50 to a charity that we're not aligned with.

01:08:06.000 We're throwing you in prison for 20 years.

01:08:08.000 Wow.

01:08:08.000 Yeah, so it's...

01:08:11.000 But yeah, owning a boxing gym.

01:08:14.000 You were telling me about how when you met Canelo and Canelo came to your gym to train.

01:08:18.000 I thought that was almost worth owning a boxing gym.

01:08:21.000 Canelo saved my gym.

01:08:24.000 I sparred with Canelo.

01:08:25.000 Did I ever tell you that?

01:08:26.000 Oh, Jesus.

01:08:27.000 On my birthday.

01:08:28.000 I hope he was nice to you.

01:08:29.000 I was flying.

01:08:31.000 I had landed in L.A. and I had a few drinks on the plane.

01:08:35.000 I wasn't drunk, but I wasn't sober.

01:08:37.000 Walked into the gym.

01:08:38.000 Canelo was training.

01:08:41.000 I was in camp.

01:08:42.000 I don't remember for which fight.

01:08:43.000 I walked in.

01:08:44.000 I announced it was my birthday and I wanted rounds.

01:08:47.000 Okay?

01:08:49.000 And I wanted rounds.

01:08:50.000 And Eddie and Chepo...

01:08:51.000 You golfed it on yourself?

01:08:52.000 Oh, I called him. 1.00

01:08:53.000 I go, it's my birthday and I want some fucking rounds. 0.98

01:08:55.000 And he just kind of stared at me. 0.99

01:08:58.000 And I ran up, didn't warm up, got my stuff on.

01:09:01.000 Pedro wrapped me up.

01:09:03.000 I put my gloves on.

01:09:04.000 I waited till one sparring partner was out.

01:09:07.000 I go, me?

01:09:08.000 And to Canelo's credit, He only threw one punch, okay?

01:09:13.000 I went two rounds with him.

01:09:14.000 He threw one punch at the end of the second round.

01:09:17.000 But it was a jab.

01:09:18.000 And the way it landed, I've never been hit like this.

01:09:22.000 He locked my jaw and my whole neck cracked.

01:09:25.000 He locked my jaw down.

01:09:27.000 It was a perfect jab.

01:09:28.000 And he threw it at maybe, I don't know, 20%.

01:09:32.000 It was just this one perfectly placed jab.

01:09:36.000 But I did spar two rounds with Canelo, and I can say that, honestly.

01:09:44.000 He went extremely easy on me.

01:09:48.000 That's very nice of him.

01:09:49.000 But, yeah, I mean, it was cool because I got to see his whole journey when he came into our gym, and he was just starting, and I think he was fighting a guy named Lopez, and he was just this little redhead skinny kid, and to see his progression, you know, he's one of, like, The only good stories in boxing.

01:10:08.000 If you ask me, like, name two good boxing stories.

01:10:12.000 I'd be like, well, I think Alvarez is a pretty good story.

01:10:15.000 He's, you know, stayed with his trainers.

01:10:18.000 He's a, you know, family man.

01:10:21.000 He's, you know, carries himself well.

01:10:24.000 He's made a lot of money.

01:10:25.000 Okay, that's one.

01:10:26.000 And two is, there is no two.

01:10:29.000 Well, Floyd Mayweather is a pretty good story.

01:10:32.000 Yeah, all right.

01:10:33.000 All right, all right.

01:10:34.000 I'll give you Floyd Mayweather.

01:10:35.000 You're right, you're right.

01:10:36.000 Yeah, 50-0, all his faculties, still making millions.

01:10:39.000 Just bought all the real estate in New York.

01:10:41.000 Okay, you're right.

01:10:42.000 I'll give you Floyd.

01:10:43.000 For some reason, it's always hard for me to put...

01:10:46.000 You're right.

01:10:47.000 Floyd is...

01:10:48.000 I got another one.

01:10:49.000 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

01:10:50.000 Okay.

01:10:51.000 Current?

01:10:52.000 Yeah.

01:10:54.000 Sugar Ray Leonard.

01:10:55.000 No, Andre Ward.

01:10:58.000 Andre Ward, Olympic gold medalist, two-division world champion, retires undefeated, brilliant analyst.

01:11:04.000 They offer him millions of dollars to go and fight Canelo.

01:11:07.000 After he's retired, he says, I think I can serve boxing more as a commentator.

01:11:12.000 I will give you Andre Ward, but I would submit that nobody knows who he is.

01:11:17.000 Other than boxing fans.

01:11:19.000 Boxing fans, of course.

01:11:21.000 But I mean, he never...

01:11:22.000 Right, he didn't achieve superstar status like Sugar Ray Leonard.

01:11:25.000 He never crossed over.

01:11:27.000 But yes.

01:11:28.000 I don't think Sugar Ray Leonard is necessarily the great example either because...

01:11:32.000 He saved his money, though.

01:11:33.000 He took a lot of fights that he shouldn't have taken later in his career, like against Terry Norris and those kind of fights.

01:11:40.000 I just put him in...

01:11:44.000 I put him in a slight, like, a positive story, just because I've been to his house.

01:11:50.000 He's rich.

01:11:52.000 He's still, you know, sharp.

01:11:53.000 That's good.

01:11:54.000 He's handsome, and he's well-spoken, and he didn't take his brain.

01:11:57.000 Right, he didn't take his brain.

01:11:58.000 The stories of, you know, like, working-class boxing gyms, like Churchill Boxing, my gym in L.A., Which I technically don't own anymore because it just was turning into such a headache.

01:12:10.000 If you could see the day-in, day-out trials and tribulations that these fighters go through, and you know it from UFC, I think that boxers have it harder, I think.

01:12:22.000 I can't prove this.

01:12:23.000 But boxing is a more dysfunctional state than UFC, mainly because of Dana and the fact that...

01:12:31.000 Dana's been able to monopolize it and that there's a system that you're a huge part of that makes sense and that there's good people involved at the top and on broadcasting and all of it.

01:12:44.000 Boxing has none of that.

01:12:46.000 And so it's this broken, dysfunctional mess that is just begging for someone, hopefully...

01:12:54.000 Dana, to come in and organize.

01:12:57.000 Yeah, they are talking about doing that.

01:12:59.000 And Turkey Al-Sheik, who is running Riyadh's season, has done a phenomenal job of putting together these incredible fights.

01:13:07.000 He's basically just said, there's a lot of resistance getting these top fighters to fight each other.

01:13:11.000 What's the resistance?

01:13:13.000 They want to maximize their earning potential by staying undefeated and avoiding the really tough challenge.

01:13:17.000 Just give them the money now.

01:13:19.000 Yeah.

01:13:19.000 And he's having all these fighters fight these dangerous fights.

01:13:23.000 And it's incredible for boxing.

01:13:26.000 Do you think that there's a way for Dana and UFC to work with him?

01:13:30.000 Yes.

01:13:31.000 I mean, they're talking about doing that.

01:13:32.000 How would that go, do you think?

01:13:33.000 What would it look like?

01:13:34.000 Well, I mean, he obviously has an excellent relationship with them.

01:13:40.000 Because, you know, Riyadh's season helped promote the big event at the Sphere.

01:13:45.000 Which was an insane venue.

01:13:47.000 So cool, right? 0.98

01:13:47.000 Have you fucking been through an experience there? 0.98

01:13:49.000 I haven't been there, but I watched the UFC fight. 0.99

01:13:52.000 It's the greatest.

01:13:53.000 You weren't there.

01:13:54.000 I wasn't there.

01:13:55.000 It's the greatest venue in the history of anything.

01:13:58.000 But it doesn't overpower the experience?

01:14:00.000 I don't know, man.

01:14:01.000 It didn't overpower the fights.

01:14:02.000 The fights were insane.

01:14:03.000 They were so good.

01:14:04.000 But it was like the arena itself is so spectacular.

01:14:08.000 I would say go to see any band there you possibly can.

01:14:11.000 Go to see anyone there.

01:14:12.000 It's so good.

01:14:14.000 The graphics are so mind-boggling.

01:14:16.000 It's like you're on a drug.

01:14:18.000 It's like you're having a psychedelic experience. 0.98

01:14:20.000 I mean, the moment I walked into it, I was like, you gotta be fucking kidding me. 0.89

01:14:25.000 It's so incredible. 0.80

01:14:26.000 Actually, there's a video of me.

01:14:27.000 I made a video.

01:14:28.000 I wanted to film my very first reaction the very first time I walked into it.

01:14:33.000 It blew me away.

01:14:35.000 What kind of drug would you compare it to?

01:14:37.000 It's like you're in a different dimension.

01:14:40.000 Like a mushroom?

01:14:41.000 Like a DMT? This is actually me walking.

01:14:46.000 Give me some volume.

01:14:51.000 This is my first time ever being inside the sphere.

01:14:55.000 This is it. 0.99

01:14:56.000 Holy shit. 0.99

01:14:59.000 I think I'm holding this. 0.99

01:14:59.000 And this is just... 0.99

01:15:04.000 They're just practicing...

01:15:07.000 And doing rehearsals of all the graphics packages.

01:15:11.000 This isn't even...

01:15:12.000 the audience is even in yet.

01:15:16.000 This is insane.

01:15:17.000 Oh, wow.

01:15:18.000 And this is nothing compared to when they had the graphic packages running.

01:15:24.000 I mean, it was unbelievable.

01:15:27.000 It's just the amount of money that it cost to put on a show there, though.

01:15:31.000 Do you think that...

01:15:32.000 Like, is it going to be profitable?

01:15:35.000 Like, how do you make that money back?

01:15:38.000 Like, it's...

01:15:39.000 I don't know.

01:15:40.000 How much did it cost?

01:15:41.000 I think the UFC spent something like $25 million over a normal budget for an event.

01:15:48.000 But I was just thinking, like, if you pay...

01:15:50.000 I think it was Dolan, it was the Madison Square Garden folks that put that deal together.

01:15:55.000 And I just, I'm like, well, okay, it holds how many...

01:16:00.000 35,000?

01:16:01.000 I don't think it's even that much.

01:16:02.000 It's not that big.

01:16:04.000 Someone spent a lot of money on that screen, right?

01:16:07.000 Yeah.

01:16:07.000 That's a lot of technology.

01:16:09.000 Yeah.

01:16:09.000 So you thought that Turkey, he did a great job.

01:16:14.000 But was Turkey involved in the UFC fight?

01:16:17.000 He was involved in Riyadh's season.

01:16:18.000 It was a part of the Sphere event.

01:16:20.000 It was co-promoted by Riyadh's season.

01:16:22.000 So in theory, Dana could work with him in some way and start...

01:16:26.000 That's the plan.

01:16:27.000 And they own Ring Magazine now.

01:16:29.000 So the reason why that's significant is the Ring Magazine belt is one of the only belts that has kind of been...

01:16:38.000 There's a bunch of different organizations that are sanctioning bodies.

01:16:41.000 There's the WBO, the WBC, the IBF. There's all these different...

01:16:46.000 It's very fractured, right?

01:16:48.000 But Ring Magazine has always been like Roy Jones Jr. was the Ring Magazine middleweight champion of the world.

01:16:54.000 The Ring Magazine super middleweight champion of the world.

01:16:57.000 The gold standard is Ring Magazine.

01:16:59.000 So there would be one belt in this...

01:17:01.000 Right.

01:17:02.000 If they can do that and then overpower everything else with money and then really put the compelling fights...

01:17:08.000 Like, did you watch this past weekend, Artur Bitterbeev and Dimitri Bivol? 1.00

01:17:12.000 What a fucking fight! 1.00

01:17:15.000 Yes. 1.00

01:17:15.000 Probably the greatest slide heavyweight fight of all time. 1.00

01:17:18.000 Incredible.

01:17:19.000 Bivol trains in our gym, by the way.

01:17:21.000 Does he really?

01:17:22.000 Churchill boxing.

01:17:23.000 The hardest punch I've ever seen anyone throw in my life was in our gym.

01:17:28.000 David Benavidez was sparring Bivol.

01:17:31.000 Whoa! 0.71

01:17:32.000 David Benavidez is a great fighter, but Bivol caught him and dropped him with a jab in sparring.

01:17:41.000 Whoa.

01:17:42.000 Inspiring.

01:17:43.000 Bivol, an incredible fighter.

01:17:44.000 Amazing.

01:17:45.000 So is Benavidez, by the way.

01:17:46.000 So they both are.

01:17:47.000 Those are actually two guys that I feel like could do it right.

01:17:51.000 But just having so much trouble getting a recognition that they deserve.

01:17:55.000 I mean, Bivol...

01:17:56.000 Well, Benavidez has been chasing Canelo forever.

01:17:57.000 Won't fight him.

01:17:58.000 Yeah, for a good reason.

01:17:59.000 Won't fight him.

01:18:00.000 That's a hard fight.

01:18:01.000 That's a hard fight.

01:18:02.000 And you want that fight?

01:18:03.000 You gotta get paid.

01:18:05.000 Yeah, you gotta get paid.

01:18:06.000 But I'm hoping that with Riyadh's season...

01:18:08.000 Turkey would make that fight.

01:18:10.000 Right, because he signed a...

01:18:11.000 A multi-fight deal with Canelo for $400 million.

01:18:14.000 I think it's a five-fight deal for $400 million.

01:18:17.000 I think that's what's been reported.

01:18:19.000 I don't know if that's accurate.

01:18:20.000 But Terrence Crawford's the first one, which is going to be incredible.

01:18:24.000 Is that really happening?

01:18:25.000 Is the Crawford-Canelo fight happening?

01:18:26.000 Yes, it's happening.

01:18:27.000 So what was going to happen was Canelo apparently had made a deal with Jake Paul to fight Jake Paul. 0.80

01:18:36.000 Ridiculous. 0.94

01:18:37.000 Ridiculous, but... 0.99

01:18:39.000 I bet it was for a significant amount of money. 0.99

01:18:41.000 Still ridiculous. 0.88

01:18:42.000 Yeah, but fun. 0.91

01:18:44.000 I'd watch it.

01:18:45.000 Look, Jake Paul wants to test himself against actual, not just world champion, but one of the greatest of all time.

01:18:51.000 He would be, if Canelo really fought and it wasn't fixed, Jake Paul would not survive 45 seconds.

01:18:59.000 I don't know about that.

01:19:00.000 I think it would take a few rounds.

01:19:02.000 Really?

01:19:02.000 Yeah, first of all, Jake is a lot bigger.

01:19:04.000 Jake's a lot bigger.

01:19:05.000 But what weight would they fight?

01:19:07.000 Well, I don't think Jake is getting anywhere lower than 205 pounds.

01:19:11.000 He's a huge guy.

01:19:12.000 So Canelo would let him fight at 205?

01:19:14.000 I think that would be the case.

01:19:16.000 I think Canelo, when he got to 175, when he was fighting light heavyweight, and he still fluctuates between 68 and 75, I feel like he probably weighs 190 when he's walking around.

01:19:26.000 So he would probably weigh 190, and Jake would weigh over 200. They would probably fight either at cruiserweight or...

01:19:34.000 They would fight at heavyweight.

01:19:35.000 But didn't Tommy Fury, like, take Jake Paul?

01:19:38.000 No, he beat him, but it was a very good fight.

01:19:41.000 It was a very good fight.

01:19:41.000 But that's what I'm saying.

01:19:42.000 But Tommy Fury versus, compared to Canelo, you think?

01:19:45.000 Right.

01:19:45.000 Different levels.

01:19:46.000 Different levels.

01:19:47.000 Yeah, no doubt.

01:19:48.000 Look, who's favored, for sure, the greatest of all time.

01:19:50.000 I mean, one of the greatest boxers of all time in Canelo Alvarez.

01:19:53.000 He's the favorite.

01:19:54.000 But I'd like to see...

01:19:55.000 What happens?

01:19:56.000 It'd be crazy.

01:19:57.000 I like a little freak show every now and then.

01:19:59.000 As far as, like, would you like to see...

01:20:02.000 I like a lot of freak show.

01:20:03.000 Like, if Jake Paul wants to fight for the title, I would like to see him beat top contenders in the light heavyweight division or whatever division he chooses to compete at and then eventually fight for a title.

01:20:14.000 Yeah.

01:20:14.000 But are the fights even real?

01:20:16.000 Like, the Tyson fight?

01:20:18.000 Like, I saw video breakdowns of Tyson...

01:20:21.000 Not throwing punches early on in that fight.

01:20:24.000 I don't know if you've watched any of those videos.

01:20:27.000 There's a left hook is 100% available.

01:20:31.000 Tyson, in training 99% of the time, releases that punch and he held out.

01:20:37.000 Do you think that was a real fight?

01:20:40.000 It looked like sparring to me.

01:20:42.000 That's what it looked like to me.

01:20:43.000 But like with an arrangement beforehand?

01:20:45.000 I wouldn't want to speculate because I haven't talked to anybody about it.

01:20:49.000 But my educated assessment?

01:20:51.000 Agreed.

01:20:52.000 Yes.

01:20:52.000 Agreed.

01:20:53.000 It looked like sparring.

01:20:54.000 It didn't look like a fight.

01:20:55.000 And you think if Canelo and Jake Paul agreed to do it?

01:20:58.000 I don't think that would be that.

01:21:00.000 I think that would be a fight.

01:21:00.000 That would be a fight.

01:21:01.000 That would be a fight.

01:21:01.000 Like a sanctioned?

01:21:02.000 Yes.

01:21:03.000 It would have to be a fight.

01:21:04.000 I don't think Canelo Alvarez is making any agreements where he's not going to knock you out.

01:21:08.000 Well, he's not taking the fight though, right?

01:21:11.000 Well, this is what happened.

01:21:12.000 So they had this agreement, and Jake Paul actually told me about the agreement when I met him at the inauguration. 0.91

01:21:18.000 We were talking about it, and I was like, holy shit, it hadn't been announced yet. 0.94

01:21:20.000 I was like, that's crazy. 1.00

01:21:22.000 And then Turkey came along and said, fuck all that. 1.00

01:21:27.000 Let me throw some money at you. 1.00

01:21:28.000 And said, stop with all this bullshit. 0.99

01:21:30.000 You need to be fighting the greatest fighters in the world right now. 0.99

01:21:33.000 You need to be fighting Benavidez.

01:21:34.000 You need to be fighting Terrence Crawford.

01:21:36.000 So Terrence Crawford is first on the list.

01:21:38.000 And a lot of...

01:21:40.000 Second on the list, according to reports.

01:21:41.000 I thought they pushed it.

01:21:42.000 Oh, who's first on the list now?

01:21:43.000 He's supposed to fight Crawford in September, and they're going to have him fight Cinco de Mayo weekend.

01:21:47.000 Against, like, a no-name, right?

01:21:50.000 William Skull.

01:21:51.000 S-C-U-L-L. That's why I was asking. 0.96

01:21:53.000 I don't...

01:21:54.000 From Strip Canelo last year.

01:21:56.000 Do they have a date for Canelo Crawford?

01:21:59.000 September 13th, supposedly.

01:22:01.000 See, that's kind of crazy that they're going to have another fight beforehand.

01:22:04.000 But it does give Crawford time to bulk up.

01:22:07.000 So Crawford got on the scale the other day.

01:22:09.000 He was 185 pounds.

01:22:10.000 Really?

01:22:10.000 Yes.

01:22:11.000 And he's doing deadlifts.

01:22:12.000 He was doing deadlifts with 450 pounds.

01:22:15.000 Crawford is a strong dude.

01:22:17.000 I'm going to put Crawford in another success story of boxing.

01:22:20.000 I'm totally just contradicting myself.

01:22:22.000 Now I'm remembering.

01:22:23.000 You're right.

01:22:24.000 He's the...

01:22:24.000 I love the guy.

01:22:25.000 He's fantastic.

01:22:26.000 I know you've had him on, right?

01:22:27.000 A couple times.

01:22:28.000 He's so good, and he's the best switch hitter in the game.

01:22:31.000 Maybe the best switch hitter since Marvin Hagler.

01:22:34.000 He's phenomenal.

01:22:35.000 And he's so intelligent.

01:22:36.000 His boxing is so clever.

01:22:38.000 He sets traps.

01:22:39.000 How old is he?

01:22:40.000 36, I believe.

01:22:41.000 And Canelo's like 30...

01:22:44.000 37. So Crawford is 37?

01:22:47.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:22:47.000 I'm looking at a thing right now.

01:22:48.000 How old is Canelo?

01:22:49.000 I think he's 35. 34, 35?

01:22:55.000 He's still on his front. 0.95

01:22:56.000 What's crazy is fucking better be of his 40 and went 12 hard rounds where they never slowed down once. 0.97

01:23:05.000 Yeah, that's because people like you are getting us all in crazy shape, Joe. 0.98

01:23:09.000 Like, these guys are living forever.

01:23:11.000 You're, like, teaching us the way to do it.

01:23:13.000 Look at that.

01:23:13.000 Very likely Terrence Crawford faces fighter with 90% KO rate after Canelo, says De La Hoya.

01:23:19.000 Who would that be?

01:23:20.000 That's what I was looking at.

01:23:21.000 What weight class would that be?

01:23:22.000 After?

01:23:23.000 So he must have fought a...

01:23:25.000 Oh.

01:23:26.000 That's such a boxing headline, isn't it?

01:23:28.000 Like 90% chance.

01:23:29.000 Virgil Ortiz Jr. Okay.

01:23:31.000 Virgil Ortiz Jr. is a savage.

01:23:33.000 That would be a phenomenal fight.

01:23:35.000 That would be an absolutely phenomenal fight.

01:23:38.000 Yeah.

01:23:40.000 Yeah.

01:23:40.000 After that, though.

01:23:41.000 Well, I saw his fight with Madrimov, who was very difficult, who Crawford struggled a little bit with too, but beat, and Virgil walked him down.

01:23:50.000 He was battering him towards the last rounds.

01:23:53.000 Why has Oscar De La Hoya offered an opinion on who Crawford would fight?

01:23:58.000 Oscar De La Hoya is not Crawford's manager, is he?

01:24:01.000 I don't believe so.

01:24:02.000 No, I don't think he has anything to do with it.

01:24:05.000 Oscar seems like he's a little off the rails these days.

01:24:07.000 Okay, for sure.

01:24:09.000 God love him.

01:24:11.000 He's having a good time.

01:24:12.000 Do you watch his clap?

01:24:15.000 Okay, I know social media, I said don't scroll and certainly Insta hoes are bad. 1.00

01:24:19.000 My favorite Instagram account is Oscar De La Hoya on his clap back Thursdays.

01:24:28.000 And then he rips into Eddie Hearn, basically.

01:24:32.000 And it's deranged.

01:24:34.000 It's absolutely deranged, but it's funny.

01:24:37.000 And Oscar clearly doesn't care. 0.99

01:24:39.000 To your point earlier, he does not give a fuck. 0.99

01:24:44.000 And he just rips apart anyone and everyone. 0.99

01:24:48.000 And he does this thing every Thursday.

01:24:50.000 I think it's called Clap Back Thursdays.

01:24:53.000 And that's my secret guilty pleasure.

01:24:58.000 My secret guilty pleasure is watching him dance around with a thong on. 1.00

01:25:01.000 He's out of his fucking mind. 1.00

01:25:03.000 The best. 1.00

01:25:04.000 That was the best.

01:25:05.000 With his fake abs.

01:25:06.000 It's a hell of a drug cocaine. 0.55

01:25:08.000 It's a hell of a drug cocaine.

01:25:11.000 I mean, I like to say we've all been there.

01:25:18.000 I haven't been there.

01:25:19.000 I haven't been there.

01:25:20.000 I haven't put the fishnets on.

01:25:22.000 I've been here, but I haven't been there.

01:25:25.000 I do respect him.

01:25:29.000 Oscar was a great fighter.

01:25:30.000 Phenomenal fighter.

01:25:31.000 Phenomenal fighter.

01:25:32.000 Come on now.

01:25:36.000 Oscar De La Hoya and all that's coming with him and Eddie Hearn, who I also like quite a bit, and then you've got Al Heyman and Bob Arum, you know, and is well into his 90s, and it's just going...

01:25:49.000 It's chaos.

01:25:50.000 Yeah.

01:25:51.000 That's the problem, is that they're represented by different promoters, and it's very difficult for people to co-promote, very difficult for people to decide, like, who's the A side, who's the B side.

01:26:00.000 You get ridiculous deals where, you know, this fighter wants 75%, the other fighter wants 25%.

01:26:05.000 They have to figure out whether or not they can make this happen. 0.99

01:26:07.000 And the fighter's like, fuck that, I want it 50-50. 0.59

01:26:10.000 And then the promoters get involved, and they don't want you to fight that guy, fight the number one mandatory contender. 0.89

01:26:16.000 And then some great fights never take place, or they take place too late, like Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao.

01:26:23.000 They fought too late.

01:26:24.000 I mean, if that fight could have been arranged by Riyadh's season, they probably would have caught them both in their prime, and it would have been chaos.

01:26:31.000 Yeah, Manny was done.

01:26:34.000 Yeah, he also had a blown shoulder going into the fight.

01:26:37.000 He needed shoulder surgery before the fight even started.

01:26:42.000 I have a little regret that I never had a professional fight.

01:26:48.000 And I was just in Mexico, and my driver started talking about boxing, and my driver told me his son was a pro fighter, and that if I wanted to, and he...

01:26:59.000 Told me how much it would cost.

01:27:00.000 I could come have a professional fight, and his son would let me win the fight.

01:27:06.000 But it would be a sanctioned fight, and I would have a box rec score of 1-0, or 0-1.

01:27:14.000 I mean, I could have not paid the money and taken the loss, but at least I would have had it.

01:27:19.000 And I did think about it for like...

01:27:22.000 About, I don't know, maybe a minute.

01:27:24.000 And I decided not to do it.

01:27:26.000 Like you and I were talking, like, I just can't take getting hit in the head anymore.

01:27:32.000 And, you know, when I was younger and I had the gym, I would spar more.

01:27:37.000 You know, in Canelo I sparred and that was controlled.

01:27:40.000 But I sparred Cam Newton once, you know, the football player who's six foot five and he was in the gym and he wanted to work.

01:27:48.000 And I'm like, well, let's spar and we'll just, you know, spar light.

01:27:52.000 And he wasn't a boxer and I have, you know.

01:27:54.000 Basic defensive boxing skills.

01:27:56.000 But I'm like, well, just let's work, Cam.

01:27:58.000 And he's like, okay.

01:27:59.000 And we started, you know, kind of sparring a bit.

01:28:01.000 And he didn't really know what he was doing, but he's a very, very physical specimen.

01:28:07.000 And I lightly kind of jabbed at his face and maybe hit the gloves, and he just went insane.

01:28:15.000 Punching me across the ring.

01:28:17.000 And I'm just like flashes of white.

01:28:20.000 I lost all feeling in my hands.

01:28:24.000 And then I didn't spar any other athletes until Steve Nash came into our gym, the basketball player.

01:28:31.000 And he wasn't his biggest cabinet, so I'm like, well, alright, I'll spar with Steve Nash.

01:28:36.000 And he doesn't know how to box, so we'll just gentlemen spar. 0.98

01:28:38.000 So we're sparring a bit, and I hit him, and I underestimate how fucking athletic he is. 0.99

01:28:45.000 He just fucking cracks me hard with a solid right, and my hands go numb. 0.98

01:28:51.000 I see nothing. 0.99

01:28:52.000 And then I'm like, that's what I'm done.

01:28:55.000 And then Saquon Barkley comes into our gym.

01:28:59.000 Do you know who Israel Barkley was?

01:29:02.000 A pro fighter.

01:29:03.000 His uncle had an incredible career as a pro fighter.

01:29:07.000 Is that Iran Barkley?

01:29:09.000 My bad.

01:29:10.000 Iran Barkley.

01:29:10.000 Thank you.

01:29:12.000 Wow, that was a political slip.

01:29:14.000 Israel Barkley. 1.00

01:29:15.000 Oh, shit! 0.99

01:29:16.000 Sorry, everybody. 0.98

01:29:18.000 Thank you, Joe.

01:29:19.000 I ran Barkley.

01:29:20.000 Do you know who I ran Barkley is?

01:29:22.000 Sure.

01:29:22.000 Okay, good.

01:29:23.000 So that was Saquon Barkley's uncle, right?

01:29:25.000 Did you know that?

01:29:26.000 No, I didn't know that.

01:29:27.000 Yeah, that was his uncle.

01:29:28.000 So Saquon comes into our gym, and I'm like, oh, I'm going to spar up.

01:29:33.000 And I'm like, no, I'm not. 0.99

01:29:34.000 I'm not going to fuck with this guy. 1.00

01:29:36.000 After Cam Newton and Steve Nash, and Saquon Barkley is a fucking stud, right? 1.00

01:29:42.000 Like, this guy's like Mike Tyson, but bigger, just his body type. 0.96

01:29:46.000 So I'm like, well, I'll hold mitts for him.

01:29:47.000 I just want to see.

01:29:48.000 And that guy could fight.

01:29:50.000 Like his uncle, Iran Barkley.

01:29:53.000 Legend.

01:29:55.000 Taught him.

01:29:55.000 And he started throwing punches and Saquon Barkley could move and counter and had balance and head movement.

01:30:03.000 I'm like, dude, if you had instead of playing football gotten into this at, you know, 12, 13. Assuming that your brain stayed on, you would have been one of the great heavyweights of all time.

01:30:17.000 He could...

01:30:18.000 Saquon could box.

01:30:19.000 Wow.

01:30:20.000 And so...

01:30:20.000 But I learned...

01:30:21.000 I thought about taking the fight in Mexico and I decided...

01:30:25.000 Don't do it.

01:30:25.000 Would you ever?

01:30:26.000 No.

01:30:27.000 Hell no, right?

01:30:27.000 No.

01:30:28.000 No, not now.

01:30:29.000 I'm 57. There's no way I'm fighting anybody now.

01:30:32.000 Dude, you're in shape.

01:30:33.000 I did agree to fight Wesley Snipes like 20 years ago.

01:30:38.000 Yeah.

01:30:38.000 What happened?

01:30:39.000 Well, you remember what happened with him with taxes?

01:30:42.000 Yeah, of course.

01:30:43.000 He went to jail, right?

01:30:44.000 Yeah.

01:30:44.000 So I think they were trying to figure out a way to make money to try to pay the government off.

01:30:49.000 And the UFC, they contacted, well, this guy, Campbell McLaren, who was one of the original producers of the first UFC before Zufa bought it.

01:31:01.000 He knew me because I worked for him.

01:31:03.000 At the time, I was the post-fight interviewer in 1997 and 1998. And that was when I first started working for the UFC. I remember.

01:31:11.000 I started again as a commentator in 2001. So in 1997, when I knew him, he knew that I did martial arts, he knew I was obsessed with this.

01:31:20.000 So he contacts me, I guess it was like 2004 or 2005 or something like that, somewhere around then.

01:31:27.000 And he says, this is going to sound crazy.

01:31:31.000 But Wesley Snipes wants to have a UFC fight.

01:31:35.000 And he wanted to fight Jean-Claude Van Damme.

01:31:37.000 And we didn't think that that would be compelling.

01:31:39.000 And so we offered some other names.

01:31:41.000 And we said, what about Joe Rogan?

01:31:43.000 And he said, yes.

01:31:45.000 And I said...

01:31:46.000 Well, what do you mean, like, when are we talking about?

01:31:48.000 Because I've been training.

01:31:49.000 I was brown belt in jiu-jitsu, and I've been training kickboxing still.

01:31:53.000 I was regularly training, and so I would have had to really ramp everything up.

01:31:57.000 He was kind of a martial arts guy, right?

01:31:59.000 Yeah, he's a martial artist, but I don't think he's ever had a fight, and I don't think he has any ground game.

01:32:04.000 And that's a giant problem.

01:32:05.000 I competed nationally in Taekwondo for five, six years.

01:32:13.000 Traveled around the country.

01:32:14.000 And I had three kickboxing fights.

01:32:16.000 I was a good stand-up fighter.

01:32:18.000 And I can kick very hard.

01:32:20.000 I'm very good.

01:32:21.000 And then I was even better because I was in my 30s.

01:32:24.000 So what happened?

01:32:25.000 He didn't want to do it. 0.99

01:32:26.000 For every reason you just said, you would have killed him.

01:32:30.000 As time went on, I think he kind of understood that it was a bad idea. 0.99

01:32:33.000 I think initially he thought, who knows, it could have been fucking chemically-fueled, these conversations with him. 0.85

01:32:40.000 The desire to have it was chemically-fueled, and then he sobered up. 0.97

01:32:43.000 But I trained every day.

01:32:45.000 I trained for six months. 0.55

01:32:46.000 You would have annihilated him.

01:32:47.000 I was kickboxing with Rob Kamen in the morning, and I was doing jujitsu at night. 0.99

01:32:50.000 I was fucking exhausted. 0.96

01:32:52.000 Prepping for the Wesley Sharks fight? 0.99

01:32:54.000 We were in negotiation.

01:32:56.000 So the first negotiation was 50-50.

01:32:58.000 They were going to split it 50-50, this and that, blah, blah, blah.

01:33:00.000 And I said, okay, great.

01:33:01.000 And then a couple weeks went by.

01:33:04.000 I had lawyers involved, the whole thing.

01:33:05.000 And then it was like, Wesley wants 60-40.

01:33:10.000 But this time I'd already invested so much time training.

01:33:12.000 I go, okay.

01:33:13.000 I just give it to him. 1.00

01:33:14.000 I'm like, I'm gonna fuck this guy up. 0.99

01:33:16.000 I go, just give it to him. 0.99

01:33:17.000 Just give it to him.

01:33:18.000 And then it got to a point where just give me a half a million dollars.

01:33:21.000 I don't care what you give Wesley.

01:33:23.000 I go, give me a half a million dollars.

01:33:25.000 And we agreed on that.

01:33:26.000 I said, I don't care what you give him.

01:33:27.000 Just give it to him. 1.00

01:33:28.000 I'm going to fucking strangle this guy. 0.99

01:33:31.000 I'm going to get a hold of him and there's not going to be a... 1.00

01:33:33.000 Goddamn thing he can do about it. 0.99

01:33:35.000 I was convinced. 0.98

01:33:37.000 So was Wesley convinced.

01:33:38.000 He obviously knew that.

01:33:39.000 But it was so engrossing.

01:33:41.000 It took up all my energy and my time.

01:33:44.000 My mind shifted into what it was when I was younger and I was fighting.

01:33:49.000 It was wild.

01:33:50.000 It was weird.

01:33:51.000 I became a different person for almost a year.

01:33:54.000 So when you hear the name Wesley Snipes now...

01:33:57.000 I have no animosity.

01:33:58.000 There's not a little part of your brain that still flips?

01:34:01.000 No, no, no, no, no.

01:34:02.000 No, no, no, no.

01:34:03.000 I think he did a smart thing.

01:34:05.000 I think he did a smart thing by not doing it.

01:34:07.000 It's just so interesting, and the idea that you got to experience a version of what it feels like to prepare to fight someone.

01:34:17.000 Yeah.

01:34:17.000 Because people just don't get it, right?

01:34:19.000 Well, I had fought a bunch of times, you know, and when I was younger.

01:34:23.000 I mean, it had been more than 10 years since my last fight, but...

01:34:27.000 I knew what it was like.

01:34:28.000 I knew the experience.

01:34:29.000 I knew what training and preparing was like.

01:34:33.000 And I also knew that I was a legitimate brown belt in jiu-jitsu.

01:34:37.000 I'd been training jiu-jitsu for a long time.

01:34:39.000 But I think he had this idea that he was going to be able to hit me when I was trying to take him down. 0.93

01:34:44.000 I was like, dude, I would fucking happily stand up.

01:34:47.000 Do you think the Zuckerberg-Musk was ever real? 0.62

01:34:53.000 Was it ever even slightly real?

01:34:55.000 I don't know. 0.98

01:34:55.000 That, to me, is the most silly. 0.98

01:34:57.000 Could you ask him, please? 0.95

01:34:58.000 Zuckerberg is legit.

01:35:00.000 He trains hard.

01:35:01.000 He trains with legit guys.

01:35:02.000 He trains all the time.

01:35:03.000 He's very smart and very obsessed by it, and he's, like, legitimately training.

01:35:07.000 He's significantly smaller than Elon.

01:35:10.000 Elon's a big guy.

01:35:12.000 But that only goes so far, especially if you don't have any endurance.

01:35:15.000 But does Elon—what do you think Elon's fighting strategy would be like?

01:35:20.000 But he took karate when he was younger.

01:35:22.000 So would he come karate-ing?

01:35:23.000 I don't know.

01:35:24.000 I don't think it was ever going to happen.

01:35:26.000 I mean, I was entertaining it because I think it would be fun if it did happen and Elon said he would do it and Zuckerberg said he would do it.

01:35:32.000 I don't know how the guy tweets as much as he does. 0.99

01:35:35.000 How the fuck could you train for a fight? 0.99

01:35:37.000 I mean, how do you run SpaceX and Tesla and the Department of Government Efficiency and Starlink? 0.99

01:35:45.000 Joe, he's your friend.

01:35:46.000 You know him better than we do. 0.99

01:35:47.000 How the fuck does he do it? 0.99

01:35:48.000 I don't know how he does it and I'm his friend. 0.99

01:35:49.000 I don't know how he does it.

01:35:51.000 I don't understand it.

01:35:53.000 I've never seen anybody who knows how to manage time better than that guy.

01:35:59.000 And he also has like 100 kids. 0.99

01:36:01.000 Like, I don't fucking... 0.99

01:36:02.000 He's a different type of human. 0.97

01:36:04.000 I just love the idea of people that don't ever fight having to suddenly have a fight.

01:36:11.000 Right?

01:36:12.000 Just like, you know, because people have never fought but suddenly get them...

01:36:17.000 Okay, here's another secret.

01:36:19.000 Don't...

01:36:20.000 Like, when I do scroll, I look for...

01:36:22.000 Street fights with people who don't know how to fight. 0.66

01:36:26.000 Or drunk people fighting is funny too.

01:36:29.000 But like, you know, okay, Elon and Zucker, Mark, you know, are going to fight.

01:36:35.000 Okay, let's say it's going to really happen.

01:36:37.000 They both train, but they're not fighters, so however much they train, they're still running their other businesses.

01:36:42.000 Now the fight starts, and for about 20 seconds, they're going to have some tactics that their trainers have been, and then it's all going to come. 1.00

01:36:50.000 Go out the fucking window. 0.99

01:36:51.000 It won't go out the window with Zuckerberg. 1.00

01:36:54.000 Zuckerberg's a real martial artist.

01:36:55.000 But has he ever really fought?

01:36:56.000 Yes, he's had jiu-jitsu matches.

01:36:58.000 He hasn't fought a kickboxing match, but he does a lot of sparring.

01:37:01.000 So he could do a two-minute or a three-minute round?

01:37:04.000 100%.

01:37:05.000 No doubt.

01:37:05.000 Yeah, no doubt.

01:37:06.000 And also, he's very disciplined.

01:37:08.000 And stay true to his...

01:37:09.000 What style of fighting?

01:37:11.000 Well, he trains in jiu-jitsu, but he also trains in mixed martial arts.

01:37:15.000 So he does Muay Thai, he does everything.

01:37:17.000 He's really obsessed with it.

01:37:18.000 And he has been for years.

01:37:20.000 Okay, so...

01:37:20.000 He's a legitimate martial artist.

01:37:22.000 Okay, but now Elon's going to come out, and Elon's running SpaceX, and he's got to dodge, and now he's going to take some time and focus on the fight.

01:37:29.000 He's not going to do it.

01:37:30.000 No, I don't.

01:37:32.000 There's no way he has the time.

01:37:34.000 If you want to really prepare properly, you train twice a day, and you have to have recovery in between.

01:37:38.000 So you have to get massages, you have to do red light therapy, you have to do everything.

01:37:42.000 Especially if you're at his age.

01:37:44.000 And you have to take hormones.

01:37:45.000 You have to be on the ball.

01:37:46.000 You have to take peptides.

01:37:48.000 You have to.

01:37:49.000 You have to really watch your nutrition.

01:37:50.000 You have to really make sure you get enough sleep.

01:37:52.000 All those things are out the window.

01:37:53.000 He's not doing any of those things.

01:37:54.000 He doesn't have the time to do any of those things.

01:37:56.000 No, so it would have to be like a demonstration where they agree to how it's going to go.

01:38:01.000 But even then, there's no way he could be in.

01:38:03.000 Condition for it.

01:38:04.000 There's no way.

01:38:05.000 And so he did train with some of my friends.

01:38:07.000 He trained with Lex, Lex Friedman.

01:38:09.000 I think he trained with George St. Pierre as well.

01:38:11.000 So I think he realized early on...

01:38:13.000 His cardio wasn't going to get him there.

01:38:15.000 His cardio is non-existent.

01:38:17.000 What is harder on cardio than boxing slash UFC, do you think?

01:38:23.000 I always say boxing, people don't understand how exhausting...

01:38:27.000 40 seconds of sparring.

01:38:30.000 I've never fought UFC. I've always felt that boxing, for some reason, is actually harder on the cardio.

01:38:38.000 I'm sure I'm wrong.

01:38:39.000 I'm sure I'm wrong.

01:38:39.000 Yeah, definitely wrong.

01:38:40.000 Wrestling is the hardest.

01:38:41.000 Wrestling is number one.

01:38:43.000 But what else compares in terms of cardio and physical demanding to wrestling, UFC, boxing?

01:38:52.000 Maybe ultra running.

01:38:54.000 Maybe really crazy things where guys have to run like 300 miles.

01:38:57.000 But they don't have the anaerobic kind of exhaustion.

01:39:00.000 Soccer.

01:39:00.000 Soccer takes incredible conditioning.

01:39:03.000 Incredible conditioning.

01:39:03.000 Those guys are unbelievably fit.

01:39:05.000 Have you ever followed Aussie Rules football?

01:39:09.000 Yes.

01:39:09.000 So, you know, I'm doing, my next film's about a football game that some Marines played in World War II, and we're filming it in Australia.

01:39:18.000 It's called the Mosquito Ball, and in the middle of, it's a true story about this football game that was played on Guadalcanal before the Battle of Okinawa, but these Marines all played it.

01:39:27.000 These Marines were good college football stars, and then they all died in the Battle of Okinawa, so it's an intense story.

01:39:35.000 But we need to film this tackle football game.

01:39:38.000 There was supposed to be a touch game, and the Marines ended up playing tackle.

01:39:42.000 And legend has it that it was the most violent football game ever played.

01:39:46.000 So we've got to film a tackle football game in Australia, which is where we're going to make the film.

01:39:52.000 And, like, stuntmen are tough, but, like, playing tackle football, you know... 0.95

01:39:58.000 It's a fucking painful thing to do, right? 0.77

01:40:01.000 Imagine, you know, even like Turkey Bowl, touch football games on Thanksgiving, like people are in the hospital. 0.97

01:40:06.000 So I was just in Australia, and I had the idea that, well...

01:40:10.000 Like, Aussie Rules Football.

01:40:12.000 It's perfect.

01:40:13.000 We'll just take a bunch of these guys and teach them how to play tackle football, and they'll really do it.

01:40:19.000 So I just went to an Aussie Rules Football practice in Brisbane, Australia. 0.99

01:40:28.000 And those fucking dudes are tough. 1.00

01:40:31.000 They are tough. 1.00

01:40:33.000 If you ever just watch, like, the highlight reels of Aussie...

01:40:36.000 I mean, the notepads...

01:40:38.000 Full smash.

01:40:40.000 And I put that...

01:40:41.000 Yeah, here it is.

01:40:43.000 I mean, yeah.

01:40:44.000 These are the guys we're going to use to play...

01:40:46.000 Oh, my God. 1.00

01:40:47.000 These fucking collisions. 1.00

01:40:49.000 Oh, Jesus. 1.00

01:40:50.000 I think these are the toughest athletes.

01:40:53.000 I think this is how they should play regular football.

01:40:55.000 I do, too. 1.00

01:40:56.000 I really feel like the pads are bullshit. 0.99

01:40:59.000 But the only way you compare American-style football is with pads. 0.99

01:41:03.000 Because the collisions that these guys have, your career would be cut short.

01:41:06.000 Look at this guy.

01:41:07.000 Look at him.

01:41:07.000 Oh, out cold.

01:41:08.000 He's done.

01:41:09.000 Stiff.

01:41:10.000 Look at this.

01:41:10.000 Look at the hitting.

01:41:12.000 It's just fucking nuts. 0.99

01:41:16.000 And I'm sure a lot of head-to-head collisions, too. 0.98

01:41:18.000 So I went to a practice of one of these teams.

01:41:21.000 I just got back.

01:41:22.000 And I brought in American football.

01:41:25.000 And I'm like, do you guys have any idea?

01:41:27.000 And they're like, Zero.

01:41:29.000 I'm like, come on.

01:41:31.000 You sort of have to know something.

01:41:33.000 And they're like, zero.

01:41:35.000 Really?

01:41:36.000 They just know nothing.

01:41:37.000 Like, how much of cricket do you know?

01:41:40.000 Zero.

01:41:40.000 Okay, if I had to gun your head and said, one rule of cricket, could you do it?

01:41:45.000 No.

01:41:45.000 Could you do it?

01:41:47.000 No, you couldn't.

01:41:49.000 Cricket, do you understand?

01:41:50.000 The ball's got to stay in, I think.

01:41:51.000 I've seen him try to throw it back in.

01:41:53.000 Stay in to what?

01:41:54.000 The ball has to stay in to what?

01:41:55.000 The pitch? 0.99

01:41:57.000 We don't know shit. 1.00

01:41:58.000 Do you understand how fucking popular cricket is? 1.00

01:42:01.000 Gigantic. 1.00

01:42:01.000 Like, bigger than football. 1.00

01:42:02.000 Huge.

01:42:03.000 Go to India or Sri Lanka. 0.98

01:42:05.000 I mean, like, these people go nuts.

01:42:07.000 So in Australia, they have 100,000 people stadiums for Aussie rules football.

01:42:13.000 So I go, and I'm like...

01:42:15.000 You know, I'm meeting these guys.

01:42:17.000 And these guys, I think, are big stars.

01:42:19.000 I don't know them.

01:42:20.000 But, you know, this is a major Aussie World's football team.

01:42:22.000 And I got the football.

01:42:23.000 And so I lined them up, 11 against 11. And they're really kind of starting to get into it.

01:42:30.000 And they're lined up, center, guards, tackles, ends.

01:42:33.000 And I'm like, all right.

01:42:34.000 So what do you think?

01:42:35.000 They're like, yeah, we don't like it.

01:42:36.000 I go, well, let me help.

01:42:38.000 Tell me what this does for you.

01:42:39.000 All right, you're the center.

01:42:41.000 If you were doing this in American football, you'd be making $6 to $7 million a year.

01:42:45.000 You're the tackle on blindside.

01:42:47.000 You're making $40 million a year protecting Patrick Mahomes.

01:42:51.000 Okay, you're Patrick Mahomes, and I'm telling them how much money they would make because these guys make no money.

01:42:58.000 There's no money in it.

01:42:59.000 Which is crazy.

01:43:00.000 Crazy.

01:43:01.000 And then they have...

01:43:02.000 Do you know tall poppy syndrome?

01:43:04.000 Have you heard of this?

01:43:05.000 Yes.

01:43:06.000 There's no ego.

01:43:07.000 These guys, they're huge.

01:43:10.000 They're members of these super successful teams, but they don't have the ego of American athletes, and they don't get the attention, and it's tall poppy syndrome.

01:43:20.000 They're culturally conditioned to not...

01:43:24.000 To not brag and to not boast and to be humble.

01:43:28.000 And I don't know.

01:43:29.000 They like to see people get knocked down when they get too big.

01:43:32.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:43:33.000 That's tall poppy syndrome.

01:43:35.000 The tall poppy gets its head cut off so they stay humble, which I kind of thought was kind of cool, you know, just realizing that I was hanging out with the captain of an Aussie Wolves team and I had dinner with the captain of the...

01:43:52.000 The New Zealand All Blacks, the rugby team.

01:43:55.000 And this guy, this was a little while ago, a couple of years ago.

01:44:01.000 This guy in America, you know the All Blacks, the most popular rugby team.

01:44:05.000 And the most humble dude ever.

01:44:07.000 And you go to a restaurant and nobody bothers him.

01:44:10.000 No security, no nothing.

01:44:14.000 That would never exist here.

01:44:16.000 But seeing how hard these dudes hit and trained made me think, well, maybe they're working at the level of athleticism that fighters are working at. 0.99

01:44:26.000 I mean, that's a hard fucking sport. 0.94

01:44:28.000 It seems like it, especially if you watch that video. 0.99

01:44:31.000 Like, that's unbelievably grueling.

01:44:33.000 The difference between fighting and anything else is that there's no one there to assist you.

01:44:38.000 There's no other teammates.

01:44:39.000 There's no rules.

01:44:40.000 There's no timeouts.

01:44:41.000 You have round breaks.

01:44:43.000 But fighting is very individual. 1.00

01:44:45.000 And if you didn't prepare properly and your opponent did, you're fucked. 0.98

01:44:49.000 If he's better than you and he's more skilled and he's got better genetics and better training and he comes from a better background and he's more... 0.99

01:44:57.000 He's more technical. 1.00

01:44:58.000 You're fucked. 1.00

01:44:59.000 You know, it's a crazy sport where you're literally putting your health on the line. 1.00

01:45:03.000 Let me ask you this question, and this is something I don't talk about, but it's another secret theory that I have.

01:45:10.000 Okay.

01:45:11.000 Just between you and me.

01:45:12.000 I feel like, and I've seen a lot of boxers train, and I've seen a lot of great trainers.

01:45:20.000 Eddie and Chepo are great trainers.

01:45:23.000 Abel Sanchez is a great trainer.

01:45:25.000 Pedro Nema from my gym.

01:45:27.000 Lots of great trainers out there.

01:45:29.000 And I've watched entire camps where trainers, like if I'm your trainer, I figure out, okay, this is our opponent.

01:45:37.000 These are going to be our tactics.

01:45:39.000 We're going to do a lot of jabbing with overhand rights.

01:45:41.000 And we're going to take our head offline consistently.

01:45:44.000 We're going to counter this way.

01:45:48.000 And I've really watched this and paid a lot of attention to it.

01:45:51.000 And this is, I'm not in any way shitting on trainers, but I'm kind of making your point about how alone fighters are.

01:45:58.000 I see all this training and I watch it and I understand the strategies and the tactics.

01:46:04.000 And the second the fight starts, none of it has any relationship to how the fight goes down.

01:46:10.000 All the strategy is rarely employed, and it becomes this moment where a fighter has to adjust and adapt and improvise incredibly. 0.96

01:46:21.000 And yeah, the conditioning matters a lot, but I often think that, like, the training doesn't do shit.

01:46:28.000 The trainers are—they can help you get your head right and get yourself in a warrior's mindset, and I do respect that.

01:46:35.000 But tactics?

01:46:37.000 Sometimes I think that they're like— Am I wrong?

01:46:42.000 Yeah.

01:46:43.000 Okay.

01:46:43.000 You're definitely wrong.

01:46:44.000 At the highest level, it's the most important thing.

01:46:47.000 Okay, but do not...

01:46:49.000 At the highest level, like at a Terence Crawford level, tactics are everything.

01:46:53.000 But he just does it.

01:46:55.000 Yeah, he just does it, but it's also because he spent so much time working on the fundamentals and the technique and the movements and counters and positioning, and he understands boxing so comprehensively.

01:47:08.000 He knows where the punches are coming from.

01:47:10.000 He knows...

01:47:11.000 Where he's going to be vulnerable to get hit.

01:47:14.000 He knows when he's not.

01:47:15.000 He knows when he has to take a risk.

01:47:16.000 And to give one, he has to take one.

01:47:19.000 But how much of that, like his trainer, Boheim, I might be saying, I know him.

01:47:25.000 I know his trainer.

01:47:26.000 Just like Eddie and Chepo, who's got to have Canelo, they have lots of other fighters.

01:47:35.000 But, like, Eddie and Chepo have never had another Canelo Alvarez, including all of his brothers.

01:47:40.000 And I'm like, okay, how much of it is just God-given talent like Terrence Crawford has that's then trained by trainers versus how much credit does a trainer get?

01:47:52.000 A trainer gets some credit, but a trainer with a bad fighter is never going to create a world champion.

01:47:58.000 You have to be an extraordinary individual to be a championship-level fighter, no doubt.

01:48:03.000 And then there are some championship-level fighters that have emerged from gyms that don't have any championships, like Marvin Hager, one of the greatest of all time.

01:48:11.000 He came out of the Petronelli Brothers gym.

01:48:14.000 They weren't known for having a giant stable of multiple world champions.

01:48:19.000 Who were the top?

01:48:21.000 Who are, in your opinion, the best UFC trainers?

01:48:24.000 Well, there's quite a few.

01:48:26.000 There's quite a few.

01:48:27.000 There's some really elite trainers out there, and I don't want to miss anybody.

01:48:31.000 But Firas Zahabi is probably one of my favorites.

01:48:34.000 Because he's very, very intelligent and very analytical.

01:48:39.000 And he does a fantastic job also of breaking down fights, both before the fight and after the fight, and telling you what tactics.

01:48:48.000 What didn't work and why they didn't work and what went wrong in the fight and what was very effective.

01:48:52.000 He's just a brilliant human being and also just so intelligent about the way he makes his fighters prepare.

01:49:01.000 And he trained George St. Pierre, who's one of the greatest, if not the greatest of all time.

01:49:05.000 So there's him.

01:49:08.000 There's Greg Jackson and Mike Winklejohn from Jackson Winklejohn in Albuquerque, which is a phenomenal gym.

01:49:16.000 That's where John Jones came from.

01:49:18.000 Multiple world champions have come from that gym.

01:49:20.000 Those guys are phenomenal.

01:49:22.000 John Crouch in Arizona, he's phenomenal. 0.98

01:49:25.000 There's just so many fucking top of the food chain guys. 0.89

01:49:30.000 And how much of that skill is... 0.96

01:49:33.000 And if it's all equal, I get it.

01:49:36.000 But how much of that skill that makes a great UFC trainer is, okay, if I'm your trainer and I'm getting you ready for a fight, I'm going to study your opponent, I'm going to study your opponent's strengths, his weaknesses, his tendencies, his tells, and I'm going to train you in relationship to that and be right.

01:49:54.000 So you can anticipate where there's going to be an opportunity and take it.

01:50:00.000 How much of it is that and how effective is that, like, versus how much of it is, Joe, I gotta keep you fucking ready for anything. 0.51

01:50:07.000 I gotta keep you in shape. 0.76

01:50:09.000 I gotta keep you mentally...

01:50:11.000 Like, good.

01:50:12.000 I gotta remove distractions.

01:50:14.000 And I gotta be like your father, your uncle, your brother, and everything else in between.

01:50:21.000 You know what I mean?

01:50:22.000 Yeah, I think there's both.

01:50:23.000 But I think for some fighters, every fighter has a different approach.

01:50:27.000 Jon Jones is famous for studying tape and devising game plans and strategies that are based on what he sees about his opponent's tendencies.

01:50:36.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:50:37.000 And that's how he caught...

01:50:38.000 Daniel Cormier with that left high kick.

01:50:39.000 He knew that Daniel dips to the right.

01:50:43.000 And Daniel even called it out before that. 0.96

01:50:47.000 You think you're going to hit me with that head kick?

01:50:48.000 And he actually did hit him with it in the fight.

01:50:50.000 Because Daniel had a tendency.

01:50:52.000 And John exploited that tendency.

01:50:54.000 And he does that with everybody.

01:50:56.000 Famous for not just doing that, but also not taking fights on last-minute notice.

01:51:02.000 Like, he's had some opponents fall out, and the UFC offers him an alternative opponent in a short period of time, and he says, no, I didn't train for that fighter.

01:51:12.000 He goes, I'm the greatest of all time for a reason, and that reason is I'm fully prepared for every fight.

01:51:18.000 I'm not going to take a fight against someone who I'm not fully prepared for.

01:51:21.000 And has he had the same coach his entire career?

01:51:23.000 Yes.

01:51:24.000 Yes.

01:51:24.000 So that's a real...

01:51:25.000 That's Jackson Winklejohn.

01:51:26.000 He's been with them forever.

01:51:27.000 And that's an incredible pairing.

01:51:29.000 Well, it's incredible.

01:51:30.000 Jackson, in particular, is fantastic at devising strategies to deal with opponents.

01:51:35.000 And, you know, he trained Holly Holm and she knocked out Ronda Rousey.

01:51:38.000 I was there.

01:51:39.000 They are...

01:51:40.000 You were in Australia for that?

01:51:41.000 That was in Australia.

01:51:42.000 No, I wasn't there.

01:51:43.000 I watched it.

01:51:44.000 I felt like I was there because I watched it.

01:51:46.000 I mean, it was shocking.

01:51:48.000 That was crazy.

01:51:48.000 That was a crazy fight.

01:51:49.000 But they trained her.

01:51:51.000 Were you there?

01:51:52.000 Yes.

01:51:52.000 Shocked, right?

01:51:53.000 Oh, it was incredible.

01:51:54.000 Yeah.

01:51:55.000 But Holly was good, man.

01:51:56.000 She's a multiple-time world champion in boxing and in kickboxing.

01:51:59.000 She was a very, very legit striker.

01:52:02.000 You were surprised.

01:52:03.000 Yeah, it was shocking.

01:52:04.000 But it was also, like, Holly was good. 0.98

01:52:06.000 She was really fucking good. 1.00

01:52:08.000 And when she landed that head kick, like, holy shit. 1.00

01:52:10.000 I remember Rhonda's face, just the shock in her face. 0.97

01:52:14.000 And she just, it was, yeah, that was, I literally felt like I was there because it was a piercing moment.

01:52:21.000 But they knew that Rhonda had a very specific entry that she used to try to take people down.

01:52:26.000 And they avoided that every single time.

01:52:28.000 Kept her out.

01:52:28.000 They circled away.

01:52:30.000 They fought off Ronda's takedown attempts and kept the fight standing. 0.98

01:52:34.000 And that flustered her.

01:52:35.000 Yeah.

01:52:35.000 Well, it was just more effective.

01:52:37.000 And so it really depends on the athlete.

01:52:41.000 Like I said, if you get a person that falls apart in the heat of the moment and just throws it all out the window and starts brawling, yeah, well, then your training has kind of gone to waste.

01:52:49.000 And then they're relying on instincts and hopefully skill.

01:52:53.000 If you have a really good fighter and a really good trainer, then you get a Mike Tyson.

01:52:57.000 What was her trainer, Edmund or Rhonda's trainer?

01:53:02.000 I can't remember his name.

01:53:07.000 But I wonder whether he underprepared her for that, right?

01:53:11.000 I don't know.

01:53:12.000 I mean, she was very stretched then when that was going on because she was doing movies and she was a superstar and she was constantly being courted.

01:53:21.000 You know, she did a movie for me.

01:53:24.000 I'm part of that problem.

01:53:25.000 Oh, really?

01:53:25.000 What was that?

01:53:25.000 It was Mile 22, but she had kind of retired by then.

01:53:29.000 This was after her.

01:53:30.000 This was after the fight.

01:53:32.000 Yeah, I think that the distractions when you're a superstar are huge.

01:53:36.000 And if you give in to all those distractions, you say yes to everything.

01:53:40.000 And you have agents that want you to be...

01:53:41.000 And you think, like, you're so confident you could do anything anyway. 0.99

01:53:44.000 I don't give a fuck. 1.00

01:53:45.000 I'll beat everybody. 0.99

01:53:46.000 And that's how every champion feels.

01:53:48.000 Sometimes I think about, like, what I've seen.

01:53:52.000 And, you know, I do appreciate a coach.

01:53:56.000 And I've just seen different success stories and different ways that coaches have really impacted fighters.

01:54:02.000 But then I think about, like, why don't life coaches work better?

01:54:07.000 And, like, I wouldn't mind having a coach that would be like, Pete, here's our enemy, here's our opponents.

01:54:14.000 And, like, I actually had a therapist for a while when I first started seeing him.

01:54:19.000 His name's Barry, and he's a great guy, and I love him.

01:54:22.000 But so much of my relationship with him was unpacking my shit, my parents and my trauma and my fears and all this stuff.

01:54:32.000 And for years, Barry would, you know, talk to me about my dreams and all this stuff and, like, the dreams that I had that night, not my goals. 0.98

01:54:41.000 And then I started realizing, well, okay, I feel like I've talked about my mom and my grandma and my grandparents and every fucking thing that's ever happened to me.

01:54:49.000 And, like, Barry, what if we'd start talking strategy? 0.79

01:54:53.000 Like, could you coach me?

01:54:54.000 And he started coaching me a bit, and I found that, like, with my business decisions, my creativity decisions, like, you're so disciplined.

01:55:06.000 Like, I don't know.

01:55:07.000 Do you ever think, like, why don't life coaches work better? 0.98

01:55:11.000 And if you had someone like John Jones Coach in your life every fucking day, would it be better? 0.91

01:55:22.000 I think for a lot of people, yes. 0.95

01:55:24.000 Yeah, if you could find someone who could devise a strategy that you could follow and you could help because it's a collaboration, you know, you could collaborate with this person and go, yeah, there's definitely value in that.

01:55:36.000 But you could also be your own coach.

01:55:39.000 Yeah, but you can.

01:55:40.000 So many people can't, right?

01:55:42.000 Like, don't people ask you or, I don't know, they ask me for, you know, advice and how do you do it?

01:55:48.000 And I'm like, well, you know, you've got to go to bed.

01:55:50.000 You've got to get up early.

01:55:51.000 You've got to have self-motivation. 1.00

01:55:53.000 Have to not make stupid mistakes. 0.99

01:55:56.000 And, you know, sometimes what you don't do that helps more than what you do. 0.99

01:56:00.000 And I'm aware of people struggling to figure out, like, more than ever, especially with, you know, all this perceived success through social media and the glorification of billionaires and all this stuff.

01:56:14.000 Everyone's like, I'm not happy where I am and I want...

01:56:17.000 And I'm like, well...

01:56:18.000 You know, are you following these basic rules?

01:56:21.000 Like, the basic rules that I believe you follow.

01:56:23.000 You, Joe, follow.

01:56:25.000 And people seem to have so much trouble getting on a program.

01:56:30.000 Well, you have to pay attention to the people that are successful.

01:56:33.000 Like, what are they doing?

01:56:35.000 And without doubt, everyone who is really successful and has longevity has discipline.

01:56:43.000 And discipline is maybe number one.

01:56:48.000 With a desire to improve and work hard every day.

01:56:52.000 What do you think the source of your discipline is?

01:56:54.000 Martial arts.

01:56:55.000 For sure.

01:56:56.000 100%.

01:56:56.000 Learning when I was young that focus and drive and attention to detail and obsession leads you to get excellent at something.

01:57:07.000 And there's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

01:57:09.000 The more time I put in, the more I trained, the better I got.

01:57:12.000 The more I was really locked in and focused, the better I performed.

01:57:15.000 And I learned that at a young age.

01:57:18.000 I learned that as a kid.

01:57:19.000 And so I developed discipline when I was very young.

01:57:22.000 But so...

01:57:23.000 Thousands of young people, at what age did you start martial arts?

01:57:27.000 I started fighting when I was 15. Okay, but you started fighting?

01:57:30.000 When did you start training?

01:57:31.000 I started training when I was like 14. I took my first karate classes when I was 14. That's actually older than I would have thought.

01:57:36.000 But like so many thousands of kids take boxing classes or lessons or mixed martial arts or whatever, and they don't.

01:57:47.000 Find the level of discipline that you were able to find, right?

01:57:51.000 Yeah, it's not for everybody.

01:57:52.000 So, but what made you able, what made you, like, was it your parents?

01:57:56.000 Was it insecurity? 1.00

01:57:58.000 Was it someone that gave you shit when you were eight that made you be like, fuck it, I'm going to learn this shit and I'm going to master it? 1.00

01:58:05.000 Well, when I first started doing it, I just wanted to figure out how to fight. 1.00

01:58:10.000 And I was very lucky that I found a gym that was filled with incredible fighters.

01:58:15.000 They were very high level.

01:58:17.000 One of the guys, my friend John Lee, was a national champion and he was like a mentor to me.

01:58:24.000 You know, I was a white belt and he was a black belt and competing in the World Cup at the time.

01:58:28.000 That's when I met him.

01:58:29.000 And, you know, he just took a liking to me and helped me out a lot.

01:58:32.000 So white belts, you're a total novice. 1.00

01:58:35.000 Complete beginner.

01:58:36.000 But I got a black belt in two years.

01:58:37.000 I was obsessed.

01:58:39.000 I trained every day of the week.

01:58:40.000 I had a key to the gym and I could work out any time I wanted because my instructor at some point in time realized that I had potential and made a deal with me and offered me I could teach classes.

01:58:53.000 And if I taught classes and I taught private lessons, like teaching beginners, like when they first come in, you have to take a certain amount of beginner classes, private lessons, before you're allowed to enter into the group class.

01:59:03.000 So I would teach people from the very beginning.

01:59:05.000 And so because of that, I was able to be at the gym all day long.

01:59:11.000 And whenever I wanted to be there, I could be there.

01:59:13.000 And I also, from teaching...

01:59:15.000 Really broke down technique, which is the most important thing.

01:59:19.000 If you have bad technique, even if you're a good fighter, you have flaws in your...

01:59:25.000 You can get pretty far with bad technique if you're just tough.

01:59:28.000 Eventually you get caught.

01:59:29.000 It's just not...

01:59:30.000 You're not going to be the best.

01:59:31.000 The best have excellent technique, without doubt, especially when it comes to martial arts.

01:59:37.000 Kicking and jujitsu like it's technique is everything in technique and and drive and training and focus and I realized early on like I thought I was a loser and then until I started doing martial arts and getting really good at martial arts I'm like oh I'm not a loser like I'm really good at this like I have a propensity to it I have a genetic Propensity.

01:59:57.000 I'm fast.

01:59:59.000 I hit really hard.

02:00:01.000 And I really loved it.

02:00:02.000 I love getting better.

02:00:03.000 I love the fear of it, too.

02:00:04.000 I love being terrified.

02:00:06.000 I love overcoming the fear of competition. 0.97

02:00:09.000 It was so fucking scary. 0.98

02:00:11.000 It was like religious for you, though, wasn't it? 0.99

02:00:14.000 Oh, yeah.

02:00:15.000 A massive experience. 1.00

02:00:18.000 It was so religious that my girlfriend at the time wanted to fuck in the gym because I had the keys and I wouldn't have sex with her there. 0.99

02:00:24.000 I'm like, no. 0.99

02:00:25.000 Why, it's a sacred space? 1.00

02:00:26.000 You can't fuck in the church? 1.00

02:00:27.000 Even when no one was there, I would bow. 1.00

02:00:29.000 That might have been a mistake. 1.00

02:00:30.000 You should have fucked her. 1.00

02:00:32.000 No, I fucked her plenty. 1.00

02:00:33.000 All right. 1.00

02:00:34.000 So we're keeping it.

02:00:36.000 But like, okay, so I think that's so interesting to trace the origin story of your fuse being ignited. 0.99

02:00:45.000 Because people look at you and they're like, okay, that dude is fucking on. 0.98

02:00:50.000 He's in it. 0.99

02:00:51.000 I've had people tell me that I'm in it.

02:00:55.000 Some of our mutual friends are in it.

02:00:58.000 You know when you're in it.

02:01:00.000 But most people can't find that.

02:01:02.000 Well, they don't have the thing.

02:01:04.000 Not everybody's going to be great at everything.

02:01:08.000 They're just not.

02:01:09.000 Some people just don't have the discipline, the desire.

02:01:12.000 They don't have the willpower to push through when they're tired.

02:01:15.000 They don't have the willpower to show up when they're feeling tired and lazy or when they're uninspired.

02:01:20.000 You have to learn that.

02:01:23.000 And you have to learn that through, like, if you want to get great, there's only one pathway.

02:01:28.000 There's only one pathway.

02:01:29.000 It's hard work and discipline.

02:01:30.000 There's no other way.

02:01:32.000 And you might not get there still. 1.00

02:01:34.000 Because if you're hard work and you have discipline, but you're competing against Mike Tyson, and he also has hard work and discipline, but superior genetics and superior training, hypnotized from the time he was 13, you're fucked. 1.00

02:01:47.000 You're fucked. 1.00

02:01:50.000 I can remember when Canelo Alvarez first came into my gym, and he was young. 1.00

02:01:57.000 He was just starting to, you know, have a rep.

02:02:00.000 Everything about that guy reeked of exceptionalism.

02:02:05.000 The way he put his bag down, the way he took his shoes out, right?

02:02:09.000 The way he drank his water.

02:02:12.000 Every rep, every, you know, when he started to stretch, every single stretch felt intentional as... 1.00

02:02:19.000 Fuck. 0.99

02:02:20.000 Him starting to just lightly warm up on a heavy bag felt he was Absolutely exceptional. 1.00

02:02:27.000 And I try to tell other fighters in our gym and other people in general that, like, you don't understand.

02:02:34.000 It's not something, you know, you see other pro fighters, and I've seen a lot of them come to our gym, and they're talking to people, and they're joking around, and they're sort of, you know, taking a moment or two off.

02:02:44.000 And then you look at all of them, and these are good fighters.

02:02:48.000 I mean, these are pro fighters.

02:02:50.000 But they're not exceptional.

02:02:52.000 And they don't have that intention.

02:02:54.000 And when I would see Canelo Alvarez or certain elite...

02:02:58.000 Crawford's done media days at our gym.

02:03:01.000 From the moment they walk in, everything about them, the way they take their sweatshirt off and fold it up and put it down. 0.98

02:03:08.000 I'm like, that dude's a world fucking champion. 0.94

02:03:10.000 Has nothing to do with the fighting. 0.99

02:03:13.000 The way they hold their hands out when they're getting taped. 0.72

02:03:17.000 It's almost like every breath from the moment they walk in to walk out is so fucking exceptional. 0.61

02:03:24.000 And I look at all these other fighters and go, no, you don't understand.

02:03:28.000 He's got something you don't have.

02:03:30.000 And you can still lose with all that.

02:03:32.000 Because you might be competing against a guy who has a slightly better strategy and maybe he's better at one thing that sets you off.

02:03:42.000 Yeah, and you want to beat that guy? 0.97

02:03:44.000 Well, you got to work even harder.

02:03:46.000 You got to go back and figure out what you did wrong.

02:03:48.000 You got to figure out where your flaws are and improve upon them, whether it's an endurance issue, whether it's a technique and strategy issue, whether it's pacing, whatever it is.

02:03:58.000 Floyd never lost, right?

02:04:00.000 And I do, I have, I totally agree with you, what you said earlier, that Floyd deserves.

02:04:05.000 That's a great story.

02:04:06.000 I just, for some reason...

02:04:08.000 I have in my life over the years sometimes hated on him a little bit for a variety of reasons, mainly because of how defensive he was.

02:04:14.000 Now I know how great he is, but I do sometimes look for inspiration in random places, and if I'm feeling like I need a reminder of what excellence is, I'll watch training videos.

02:04:26.000 From Vegas with Floyd.

02:04:28.000 Just him and his uncle or his dad just doing the mitts, doing these like 15 minute rounds.

02:04:34.000 Just so smooth and effortless.

02:04:37.000 And what does he say?

02:04:39.000 Hard work, easy work, hard work.

02:04:41.000 I can't remember what his phrase is.

02:04:42.000 But the beauty of like Mayweather training in a gym.

02:04:49.000 And I just find that so interesting to look.

02:04:53.000 For people who are exceptional.

02:04:57.000 It's a long road, man.

02:04:59.000 It's a long road.

02:05:00.000 You're making a mountain one layer of paint at a time.

02:05:03.000 And you're competing against other people that are doing the exact same thing.

02:05:06.000 And unless you set yourself apart from the pack, unless you're a guy like Marvin Hagler that goes to Cape Cod and trains in the winter and runs on the fucking sand, unless you're that guy that pushes it past everybody else, you're not going to be exceptional. 0.98

02:05:19.000 And it's a fucking struggle. 0.95

02:05:23.000 That's why some fighters, they reach a certain level of success and they sort of slack off. 0.99

02:05:29.000 A lot of people thought Canelo was doing that when he started playing golf all the time.

02:05:32.000 They're like, oh, he's not completely focused anymore.

02:05:35.000 And maybe this is why he doesn't want to fight Benavidez.

02:05:37.000 Might be a little true.

02:05:39.000 It also might be a money thing.

02:05:41.000 It might be like, look, I'll fight that guy, but I know what that fight is and I want $200 million for that fight.

02:05:46.000 How about just like... 0.98

02:05:47.000 How hard it is to stay hungry when your refrigerator is that fucking full. 0.98

02:05:52.000 You're a good-looking dude. 0.99

02:05:54.000 You have a beautiful wife.

02:05:56.000 You've got this hacienda in Mexico that Pablo Escobar would have killed for, with the stallions and the cars. 0.99

02:06:05.000 You gotta go fucking deal with David Benavidez? 0.99

02:06:07.000 Right. 0.99

02:06:08.000 Like, that's like when, you know, Rocky, when he had to go fight, I can't remember who, and he's all rich.

02:06:12.000 Clubber Lang.

02:06:13.000 Yeah, he had to go fight Clubber Lang, rich.

02:06:15.000 Yeah.

02:06:15.000 Like, okay, Canelo, however, I'll fight you poor, but now I gotta fight you rich?

02:06:20.000 Right.

02:06:20.000 And I gotta wake up for, like, aye.

02:06:23.000 Hagler always says it's very difficult to wake up in the morning when you're sleeping in silk sheets.

02:06:26.000 Yeah.

02:06:27.000 Yeah.

02:06:28.000 Yeah, and like, and I do think about...

02:06:31.000 That also, like, I have people asking me, like, you know, we started talking about making American Prime Viejo. 0.93

02:06:38.000 That was 145 days up on a mountain, you know, and standing on ice with clamp on your shoes because we're on ski mountains and there's fucking wind and it's fucking miserable. 0.99

02:06:51.000 And I'm like, people are like, why are you doing this shit? 0.99

02:06:56.000 I'm like... 1.00

02:06:57.000 Because I fucking love it. 0.99

02:06:59.000 Because you fucking love it. 0.99

02:06:59.000 I love it. 0.99

02:07:01.000 But they're like, but we could like, you know, I got a boat.

02:07:04.000 We're going to go into the Mediterranean.

02:07:06.000 I'm like, nah, I'm going to be up on the mountain.

02:07:08.000 Yeah.

02:07:08.000 And like, staying hungry is a...

02:07:13.000 I don't know.

02:07:13.000 But it all depends on what your motivation is.

02:07:15.000 If your motivation is to just get wealthy, and then once you reach that point, now you're fucked. 0.98

02:07:20.000 Because now you don't have this motivation anymore. 1.00

02:07:22.000 If your motivation is the big house and the big cars and all that bullshit.

02:07:26.000 But if your motivation is excellence, you can maintain that motivation no matter what your financial state is.

02:07:31.000 Forever.

02:07:31.000 It's an unlimited source.

02:07:33.000 I mean, that's the necklace I wear.

02:07:34.000 Pleasing to God is the creation of beautiful things.

02:07:37.000 That's what it says on your necklace?

02:07:38.000 Yeah, the only thing pleasing to God is the creation of beautiful and exalted things.

02:07:43.000 It's that quote.

02:07:44.000 That's perfect.

02:07:45.000 It reminds me, dude, like, okay, I don't, I'll enjoy, like, you want to take me to a fancy Michelin restaurant here in Austin?

02:07:53.000 Okay. 0.96

02:07:54.000 You want to take me to Guero's and fucking have some ribs? 0.99

02:07:57.000 Okay. 0.99

02:07:58.000 Like, I don't care.

02:08:00.000 And, I mean, I appreciate it.

02:08:03.000 But it's not your primary motivation. 1.00

02:08:06.000 Your primary motivation is not to show up at the big party and have everybody kiss your ass. 1.00

02:08:10.000 No. 1.00

02:08:10.000 No, it's creation. 1.00

02:08:11.000 The creation of great art.

02:08:13.000 Correct.

02:08:13.000 And if you're a fighter, it's the same thing.

02:08:15.000 It's like to be excellent, to be unstoppable, to be the best of the best.

02:08:21.000 And if you have that motivation, you can maintain that with wealth.

02:08:24.000 You can still get hungry to be Canelo and come out and fight.

02:08:28.000 David Benavidez.

02:08:29.000 But it's obviously very hard to do, which is why most fighters don't maintain it once they achieve wealth.

02:08:35.000 Who's the best?

02:08:36.000 Who's the best? 0.99

02:08:37.000 I think Tom Brady is a great example of someone that was able to just reignite the fucking beast. 0.99

02:08:44.000 Yes. 0.99

02:08:45.000 Kobe Bryant, I guess, you know, yes.

02:08:49.000 But fighters...

02:08:51.000 Or people that you know that...

02:08:53.000 I just think it's interesting to think about...

02:08:55.000 It's a different thing though.

02:08:56.000 Sports and fighting are a different thing because...

02:08:59.000 You don't play boxing?

02:09:00.000 Yeah, you don't play it.

02:09:01.000 It's like you could decide that you're going to still maintain a very high level of basketball and you want to just be excellent.

02:09:08.000 But no one's kicking you in the legs, you know?

02:09:10.000 No one's taking you down and strangling you.

02:09:12.000 Who's the...

02:09:13.000 Is it George St. Pierre that's been able to like...

02:09:15.000 Who is it?

02:09:16.000 John Jones that... 0.99

02:09:18.000 And your mind is curious in that they were able to, with a full fridge and comfortable sheets, just keep fucking going. 0.87

02:09:27.000 But Jon Jones is exceptional because Jon Jones beat a lot of guys when he was in training. 0.95

02:09:31.000 There was times in his life where he was fucking off and partying all the time and still beating the best guys in the world.

02:09:35.000 That was like when he had that press conference with Daniel Cormier. 0.99

02:09:40.000 He goes, I beat you when I was doing coke.

02:09:43.000 That's such an insult.

02:09:45.000 What's a worse insult than that? 1.00

02:09:47.000 Dude, I was high on fucking eight balls and I'd beat your ass. 1.00

02:09:51.000 Well, John talked to me about it. 1.00

02:09:52.000 He said, I used to, when I was younger, I used to give myself an excuse.

02:09:56.000 So I would party really hard like a week before the fight, which you should never do.

02:10:00.000 And it's like, well, if I lose, you know, maybe it's because I partied.

02:10:04.000 But he doesn't do that now.

02:10:07.000 Now he thoroughly prepares.

02:10:09.000 And he went through a time when he was the light heavyweight champion, when he was kind of like playing with his food, because he was just so much better than everybody else.

02:10:16.000 He wasn't threatened by people, so he wasn't putting on the performances that he did when he was younger, like when he won the title against Shogun.

02:10:23.000 He lost some of that motivation, but then gained it later in life when he went through a bunch of legal struggles, a lot of problems, and realized, like, this could all be taken away from me.

02:10:34.000 I gotta get back to what made me great.

02:10:36.000 And then, you know, won the heavyweight title, defended against the greatest in Stipe Miocic, and, you know, now he's the heavyweight champion of the UFC. What do you think?

02:10:44.000 He's been fighting...

02:10:45.000 How many years?

02:10:46.000 He won the title in, what, like 2008?

02:10:48.000 When did...

02:10:49.000 What year did Jon Jones win the title?

02:10:52.000 Which is just...

02:10:53.000 That's insane. 0.99

02:10:53.000 ...fucking crazy. 0.99

02:10:54.000 And he's 40... 1.00

02:10:56.000 No, he's in his 30s.

02:10:58.000 He's the youngest ever champion in the UFC. He won the title at 22 years old.

02:11:04.000 2011. 2011. Okay.

02:11:06.000 So he has been a world champion for 14 years.

02:11:10.000 That is...

02:11:11.000 But so he has to be the greatest fighter in the history of the UFC, greater than George St. Pierre, I mean, right?

02:11:17.000 I think on paper, for sure.

02:11:19.000 I think the problem with that is, like, who did he fight versus who did George St. Pierre fight?

02:11:23.000 Who did Khabib fight versus who did George St. Pierre?

02:11:26.000 It's like, who did Mighty Mouse fight versus who did Anderson Silva fight?

02:11:30.000 Who do you put number one based on those metrics?

02:11:34.000 Out of just the sheer longevity and the accomplishments, I say John Jones.

02:11:38.000 But I could see the argument for Mighty Mouse being the best martial artist I've ever seen.

02:11:44.000 I think he's the best expression of martial arts talent and technique that I've ever seen.

02:11:49.000 But then George St. Pierre is right up there, too.

02:11:51.000 And George St. Pierre was, you know, multiple division world champion.

02:11:55.000 He won the welterweight title, then he won the middleweight title.

02:11:58.000 And then he came back after four years off and beat...

02:12:01.000 Michael Bisping for the middleweight title.

02:12:03.000 He's in the argument, too.

02:12:05.000 I just think there's a real problem with saying the number one of all time, the greatest of all time.

02:12:10.000 But if you were going to give it to somebody, I would say give it to John.

02:12:12.000 When you think about John and how he's been able to do it for this long and go through these highs and lows and... 0.98

02:12:20.000 I mean, fighting and doing blow, that's fucking... 0.97

02:12:24.000 Well, he's that talented. 0.99

02:12:26.000 He was that good. 0.99

02:12:27.000 He's an intelligent psychopath. 0.90

02:12:29.000 But what's in there to what we're talking about? 1.00

02:12:34.000 What's driving that motherfucker? 1.00

02:12:36.000 I don't know. 1.00

02:12:36.000 You can't manufacture that. 1.00

02:12:40.000 You either are that guy or you are not that guy.

02:12:42.000 So that's pure nature.

02:12:44.000 It's a lot of things.

02:12:45.000 It's how he grew up. 0.83

02:12:46.000 He has two savage brothers.

02:12:48.000 Both of them are NFL players, superior athletes.

02:12:51.000 They beat each other up all the time, I'm sure.

02:12:53.000 It's like you're in a competitive environment from the time you're young.

02:12:56.000 You have incredible genetics on top of that.

02:12:59.000 Then you go to a place like Jackson Winklejohn that is superior training with world-class sparring partners, world-class coaches, world-class recovery, training facilities, techniques.

02:13:10.000 You need a perfect storm to be a real, true, all-time great. 0.58

02:13:16.000 Do you think that, because sometimes I think that being fucked up can work to your advantage and having addictive tendencies and being able to harness addictive tendencies into something. 0.86

02:13:33.000 As violent and to be able to apply those to a sport versus just being, well, I'm a well-adjusted human being with no addictive tendencies, not a lot of trauma. 0.98

02:13:43.000 I'm going to fight you. 0.99

02:13:45.000 Oh, no, I'm a fucking beast that grew up in a fight. 1.00

02:13:48.000 And like Mike Tyson grew up, I don't even understand if you grew up inside or outside, dealt with fucking ignited torments, drug addictions, violence, and I will kill. 1.00

02:14:01.000 And I guess that's always interesting to look at how well-adjusted people do versus people that have real trauma when it gets fucking brutal. 1.00

02:14:13.000 I think there's some real value to being out of your fucking mind. 0.99

02:14:18.000 I really do. 0.99

02:14:19.000 And I think some of the greatest artists, some of the greatest athletes, some of the greatest accomplishments were achieved by people that were out of their fucking mind and just had pushed it to a level. 0.81

02:14:30.000 To a level and into an area that other people weren't willing to go. 0.52

02:14:34.000 And that's how they became the best of the best. 1.00

02:14:36.000 And you don't get to be a Michael Jordan unless you're out of your fucking mind. 0.99

02:14:40.000 Or maybe an Elon Musk. 1.00

02:14:42.000 I don't know.

02:14:43.000 Right.

02:14:44.000 Yeah.

02:14:45.000 Similar.

02:14:45.000 Similar in that regard.

02:14:46.000 It's not a normal person that chooses to take on four or five jobs like that.

02:14:49.000 No.

02:14:50.000 And then runs the Department of Government Efficiency.

02:14:53.000 Like, who is that?

02:14:53.000 Very few people are willing to put in that kind of work or have that desire to do anything like that.

02:14:59.000 It has to be real.

02:15:01.000 You can't be forcing it because if you're forcing it, it's like, oh, God, this is like, I don't really want to do this.

02:15:06.000 Well, there's someone out there that wants to do that.

02:15:08.000 They're going to get better.

02:15:09.000 They're going to be better at it.

02:15:10.000 They're obsessed.

02:15:11.000 They're all in.

02:15:12.000 You have to be all in.

02:15:13.000 When fighters aren't all in anymore, that's the worst stage of their career.

02:15:17.000 It's horrifying.

02:15:18.000 And, you know, I say that about people ask me about my job or how do I get a job working in Hollywood?

02:15:25.000 I want to make movies.

02:15:26.000 I'm like, well, are you sure you want to do this?

02:15:30.000 Because, like, you're not going to have an office.

02:15:32.000 You're not going to have a boss.

02:15:33.000 You're not going to have someone saying, hey, Joe, get up.

02:15:36.000 Time to get up.

02:15:36.000 And you're going to have to be totally self-motivated.

02:15:40.000 You're going to have to deal with...

02:15:43.000 Yeah, reviews, I feel what you're saying there, but you're going to be judged.

02:15:47.000 You're going to be only as good as your last job. 0.99

02:15:50.000 You have no fucking job security. 0.99

02:15:52.000 And you're going to be up at four in the morning in some mountain, thumbing someone, cutting someone's fucking head off, having no idea whether you're on the right path or the wrong path. 1.00

02:16:02.000 You've got to be a little fucking crazy. 1.00

02:16:05.000 Yeah, you have to be crazy to think that you can do it. 1.00

02:16:08.000 Right?

02:16:08.000 Because most people don't get a chance to do that.

02:16:11.000 Delusional thinking.

02:16:11.000 You have to be able to be delusional.

02:16:13.000 Well, I don't even think it's delusional.

02:16:15.000 My business a little bit.

02:16:16.000 You have to be willing to go through everything that it takes to get there.

02:16:21.000 And that is not an easy road.

02:16:24.000 And it's not an easy road to be a great filmmaker.

02:16:26.000 It's not an easy road to be a great athlete.

02:16:28.000 No matter what you're doing, you'd be a great author.

02:16:30.000 You have to be willing to go down that road, and it is a long road with trials and tribulations and errors and successes, and you have to learn from your successes and learn from your failures.

02:16:43.000 And not everybody has their shit together enough to pursue a path consistently for a long enough period of time that you achieve greatness. 0.99

02:16:51.000 Yeah, and having the combination of having your shit together and being fucked up. 1.00

02:16:56.000 Because you've got to be crazy, but you've got to be functionally crazy. 1.00

02:17:01.000 I always say delusional thinking because I made the point to people asking me about my job. 0.97

02:17:08.000 I'm like, well, okay, think about it this way.

02:17:11.000 You have to have the ability to look someone in the eye.

02:17:14.000 So if I'm a young filmmaker and you're the head of a studio, I have to look you in the eye and say, Hey, Joe, here's the deal.

02:17:22.000 I need $135 million.

02:17:25.000 I'm going to make up a story about a bunch of cowboys and Indians fighting in a mountain.

02:17:31.000 I'm going to bring all these people up there.

02:17:34.000 Film it and move people around and I'm gonna edit it all together and I'm gonna for your hundred and thirty million dollars I'm gonna build this thing I'm gonna make it all put music on and edit it and make it all I'm gonna put it out into the world and people are gonna stop doing what they're doing And they're gonna watch it and they're gonna love it and it's gonna bring you value But why is it delusional if other people have done it?

02:17:56.000 Because everyone that's done it is a little delusional.

02:17:59.000 Because it just doesn't, like, you're right, okay?

02:18:03.000 It's not totally delusional, but it's a little bit of magical thinking.

02:18:08.000 Maybe take the word delusional out of it and be like, you know, like the idea of magical thinking?

02:18:12.000 That like, oh no, I can do something.

02:18:17.000 That doesn't quite make sense.

02:18:19.000 It's not like, oh, I'm going to make this table.

02:18:20.000 I'm going to measure it and cut it and nail it and attach it to a frame.

02:18:25.000 No, it's like I've got this abstract vision that I'm going to attempt to...

02:18:32.000 Put together in a way that costs somebody a lot of money, and yet I'm going to aspire to touch people's hearts and souls with this.

02:18:41.000 It's just a weird way to think.

02:18:43.000 It is, but...

02:18:44.000 I love it, but it's...

02:18:45.000 But it obviously works.

02:18:47.000 Like, it can't be...

02:18:48.000 There's a lot of bad movies out there.

02:18:50.000 Yeah, that's true!

02:18:51.000 There's a lot of bad everything.

02:18:53.000 There's a lot of bad books, you know, but is it delusional to want to write a book?

02:18:56.000 No, it's been done forever.

02:18:58.000 You know, it's just like filmmaking is fairly recent.

02:19:01.000 You know what my dad told me when I told him I was going to Hollywood to learn how to make movies?

02:19:06.000 What?

02:19:06.000 So my dad was a business guy, and I loved my dad very much, but right when I was getting ready to come to Hollywood, he said, Pete, I've secured you a job at Lehman Brothers.

02:19:16.000 You're going to work on a desk, and you're going to learn about finance.

02:19:21.000 It's done.

02:19:22.000 And I had studied theater in college, which was making my dad very anxious because I was starting to get into making these little movies and all this stuff.

02:19:29.000 And I'm like, I'm in L.A. and I'm getting ready to move to L.A. And he stopped me.

02:19:33.000 He's like, we're not moving to L.A. I've got you a job.

02:19:37.000 This guy, Barry Frank, who's a friend of my dad's, knew someone at Lehman Brothers.

02:19:42.000 And I think they're out of business now, by the way.

02:19:45.000 Big money company.

02:19:46.000 And I'm like, Dad, I'm not doing it.

02:19:47.000 He's like, what do you mean?

02:19:48.000 I go, Dad, I'm not.

02:19:49.000 He's like, you're really going to go now? 1.00

02:19:50.000 Fucking bullshit, Hollywood. 1.00

02:19:52.000 I go, I am. 1.00

02:19:53.000 He goes, you're not.

02:19:54.000 I go, I am.

02:19:54.000 He said, okay, I'll tell you what.

02:19:56.000 Good luck out there.

02:19:57.000 You know what's going to happen? 1.00

02:19:58.000 you're going to end up making them gay pornos. 0.99

02:20:01.000 Imagine that's the only thing that can happen if it goes wrong. 1.00

02:20:12.000 You make gay pornos. 1.00

02:20:13.000 Gay pornos. 1.00

02:20:14.000 That's hysterical. 1.00

02:20:16.000 And he's staring me in the eye and he's not fucking kidding. 0.99

02:20:19.000 That's so fucking funny. 0.98

02:20:19.000 And I'm like, Dad, I'm not. 0.98

02:20:25.000 And I fucking left. 0.99

02:20:26.000 And in the back of my mind for the last 30 fucking years has been that warning. 1.00

02:20:32.000 Don't do gay portos. 1.00

02:20:34.000 Be careful. 1.00

02:20:34.000 You better fucking work. 1.00

02:20:36.000 But it's not magical thinking. 0.99

02:20:39.000 To my dad, the idea that you were his, you know, because I had no artists in my family.

02:20:45.000 My dad was a business guy. 0.98

02:20:47.000 He was like mad men advertising, worked for Gray Advertising, like Jif Peanut Butter and shit. 0.99

02:20:52.000 Like the account guy. 1.00

02:20:53.000 He had to go get the Jif Peanut Butter guys drunk twice a week.

02:20:57.000 And that was his job, you know.

02:20:59.000 But the idea that, wow, you can make a career in the arts.

02:21:04.000 Yeah, people do it. 0.99

02:21:06.000 Most people don't fuck with that. 0.99

02:21:08.000 Most people don't make it. 1.00

02:21:09.000 They don't fuck with it. 0.99

02:21:11.000 But that's just because it's hard. 0.99

02:21:13.000 If it was easy, everybody would do it. 0.99

02:21:15.000 If it was easy, everybody would have their own fucking movie. 0.99

02:21:17.000 Everybody would be making movies. 1.00

02:21:19.000 Everybody would have their own fucking podcast. 0.99

02:21:21.000 If it was easy to have a podcast, my favorite... 1.00

02:21:22.000 I think everybody does.

02:21:23.000 I think everybody does.

02:21:25.000 Gavin Newsom just started one.

02:21:26.000 Yeah, well...

02:21:27.000 The second one, I think.

02:21:28.000 Well, you're right.

02:21:29.000 You're right.

02:21:29.000 So this is the other thing that I think is so interesting, and it's true with podcasts.

02:21:35.000 When I tell people who come to Hollywood and they're like, I don't understand this business.

02:21:41.000 What do I do?

02:21:42.000 What do I do? 1.00

02:21:43.000 I'm like, fuck off. 1.00

02:21:44.000 Let me tell you something. 1.00

02:21:46.000 There's no barrier of entry for my business or podcasting, meaning anybody in the world can move to L.A. You don't even have to be in L.A. anymore.

02:21:54.000 You can be in Austin and be like, I'm an actor.

02:21:57.000 I'm an actress.

02:21:58.000 I'm a writer.

02:21:59.000 I'm a director.

02:21:59.000 I'm a producer.

02:22:00.000 I'm a podcaster. 1.00

02:22:02.000 Any motherfucker can do it. 1.00

02:22:03.000 You don't need a degree. 1.00

02:22:04.000 Get on an airplane and look to the left when you're getting on. 1.00

02:22:07.000 Can anyone fly a fucking plane? 1.00

02:22:10.000 If your toilet is fucking backed up and you need it fixed, can you just pull anyone off the street or does a plumber have to have a fucking degree, right? 1.00

02:22:18.000 Right. 0.99

02:22:20.000 This is where I say magical thinking.

02:22:23.000 You want to thrive in a job where all you're doing is talking, Joe.

02:22:27.000 You're just talking. 1.00

02:22:29.000 Everyone has a mouth and two ears, but you're doing it on a different fucking level. 0.99

02:22:35.000 That's magical thinking, in a way. 0.98

02:22:38.000 Well, if I set out and said, I one day want to be the biggest podcaster on earth.

02:22:45.000 That's magical thinking.

02:22:47.000 But I didn't.

02:22:47.000 You just followed your instincts.

02:22:49.000 And who was your first one?

02:22:50.000 Who was the guy you were telling me about?

02:22:51.000 Brian Redman.

02:22:52.000 My buddy Brian.

02:22:53.000 Yeah, we just started out with snowflakes falling from the screen.

02:22:56.000 And we did it on a webcam. 0.95

02:22:58.000 We were just being silly.

02:22:59.000 And we just did it all for fun.

02:23:01.000 But people move to L.A. or get into my business thinking, I'm going to smash it.

02:23:07.000 Yes.

02:23:08.000 That's a little bit delusional thinking.

02:23:10.000 Delusional.

02:23:10.000 Or aspirational.

02:23:12.000 Because it's...

02:23:15.000 Delusionally aspirational.

02:23:16.000 Yes. 1.00

02:23:17.000 Because I'm like, dude, if you come, you want to work in, still call it Hollywood, even though it's not really Hollywood anymore, because it's so decentralized, but it's fucking show business, motherfucker. 0.99

02:23:32.000 It's money and art smashing together in this very bizarre way. 0.99

02:23:35.000 And you've got to get so good at art that the money people trust you.

02:23:38.000 Yeah, and you've got to know how to play the money game.

02:23:41.000 Even when they trust you, you still have to know how to play it.

02:23:45.000 Even if you're, you know, Tarantino or Christopher Nolan, or you still have to understand, you know, for the most part that...

02:23:58.000 There's financial parameters and you have to be able to accept that and play that because you're playing in a serious game. 0.98

02:24:06.000 Like, our bosses, they don't give a fuck. 0.97

02:24:08.000 They're all publicly held now and they're looking at stock prices. 0.98

02:24:12.000 And I say to people, bro, if you just want to be like an artist and just pure and think about like, oh, I just, you know, like you actually were when you were doing your podcast. 1.00

02:24:22.000 Like I kind of was when I was in Minnesota making little movies and doing all this idiotic shit that got my dad to say, oh, you're going to make gay porn, you fucking idiot. 1.00

02:24:33.000 This little phase of, oh, I was in Minnesota and St. Paul in this small school, and I'm like, I just fucking love this shit. 1.00

02:24:41.000 Just like your first podcast. 0.99

02:24:42.000 I just loved it.

02:24:43.000 But I tell people, if you just want to be an artist, go write plays in Oklahoma City and just stay over out there.

02:24:51.000 But if you want to step into this arena, It's tricky, you know?

02:24:58.000 Well, you have to be all in.

02:25:00.000 And you have to realize that this is a very high failure rate.

02:25:04.000 And yeah, even all in, just like fighting.

02:25:06.000 You still might not make it.

02:25:07.000 You might not make it.

02:25:08.000 Yeah.

02:25:08.000 I mean, acting's the best example of that.

02:25:10.000 I mean, we talked about Tim McGraw being amazing.

02:25:12.000 How many amazing actors out there that don't act?

02:25:15.000 There's a lot.

02:25:15.000 There's a lot of people that can act.

02:25:16.000 You can take them and they can figure out how to do it.

02:25:19.000 It's a weird skill that some people either have or don't have.

02:25:22.000 Some people have the ability.

02:25:24.000 You can definitely get better at it.

02:25:25.000 There's definitely people that train very hard and there's method acting and there's all sorts of different strategies.

02:25:32.000 The reality is, there are a small number of roles and a large number of people.

02:25:38.000 And they're auditioning for these things, and if you don't get into one, you probably won't get another. 0.98

02:25:43.000 And it might be 5, 10, 15 years, and you've had no success, and you don't know what the fuck to do.

02:25:48.000 And you can quit, or you can do what Billy Bob Thornton is, and you make Sling Blade. 0.86

02:25:52.000 Right?

02:25:53.000 And then all of a sudden, boom, he takes off.

02:25:54.000 Well, that's what...

02:25:56.000 The reason I got into directing was I was trying to act and I was having mixed success and I was getting very scared that, you know, you could prepare for an audition for five days and I know everything and I'm ready and I'm all in and I go in and I get 30 seconds of the director's time and...

02:26:16.000 You find out, like, oh, you look like the dude that the director's girlfriend cheated on him.

02:26:21.000 And he's like, you were dead before it started.

02:26:23.000 And I was on this TV show, Chicago Hope.

02:26:27.000 It was a hospital drama.

02:26:28.000 And I was kind of getting a little famous.

02:26:30.000 I played a TV doctor, Billy Cronk.

02:26:33.000 And people kept calling me Billy whenever I walked down the street, like, hey, Billy, what's up, Billy, Billy, Billy? 0.99

02:26:38.000 And I'm like, oh, my fucking God, this is going to be my legacy is being this TV fucking doctor, Billy. 0.96

02:26:45.000 And I was on an airplane going from L.A. to New York, and I'm sitting there, and this guy walks by me, and he stops. 0.99

02:26:52.000 He goes, hey, Billy.

02:26:53.000 And I'm like, my name's not Billy.

02:26:56.000 My wife has this rash. 1.00

02:26:59.000 Show him the rash. 1.00

02:27:00.000 And she pulls up her shirt and she's got this fucking rash. 1.00

02:27:03.000 And she's sticking it in my face. 1.00

02:27:04.000 He's like, Billy, what's the rash?

02:27:06.000 And the other people on the plane are like, what's the rash? 1.00

02:27:09.000 And I'm like, fuck this shit. 1.00

02:27:12.000 I'm like, I've been busting my ass. 1.00

02:27:14.000 I'm barely making it as an actor. 0.99

02:27:16.000 And people are showing me their rash. 0.98

02:27:18.000 I'm like, I gotta fucking do my own sling blade. 0.86

02:27:21.000 And I did very bad things. 0.97

02:27:23.000 And still got the worst review ever in the history of reviews.

02:27:26.000 I love that movie.

02:27:27.000 But it started my career.

02:27:28.000 I think it was a good movie, man. 1.00

02:27:29.000 Fuck that critic. 1.00

02:27:31.000 But you know what saved me? 1.00

02:27:32.000 So I get the horrible review.

02:27:34.000 I throw up. 0.99

02:27:35.000 And I'm literally on death's fucking door. 0.99

02:27:39.000 Like, I'm done. 0.99

02:27:40.000 I have no career.

02:27:41.000 I get a phone call at night from a woman named... 0.99

02:27:45.000 Her name's Kelly Chapman Myers.

02:27:47.000 She was married to Ron Myers, who used to run Universal.

02:27:50.000 And she's like...

02:27:51.000 He was a huge... 1.00

02:27:52.000 Fucking guy, Ron Meyer. 1.00

02:27:53.000 He was a big, big mogul in our business. 1.00

02:27:55.000 And I could hear these guys laughing.

02:27:57.000 And she's like, Pete, Pete, I'm on the boat with Ron and Steven and David Spielberg and David Geffen.

02:28:05.000 Oh, wow.

02:28:06.000 And we're watching your movie. 1.00

02:28:07.000 And they're laughing like little fucking frat boys. 0.99

02:28:10.000 And Ron Meyer gets the phone and he's like, this is fucking great! 0.99

02:28:14.000 And I'm holding the review of Kenneth Turan like I just got it. 0.97

02:28:18.000 And I'm like, what?

02:28:20.000 Hold on.

02:28:21.000 Spielberg. 0.99

02:28:21.000 This movie's fucking great! 0.99

02:28:23.000 It's great! 0.99

02:28:24.000 And I'm like, let's go.

02:28:28.000 That's awesome.

02:28:29.000 Well, they were right.

02:28:31.000 And the critic was wrong.

02:28:32.000 I appreciate it.

02:28:33.000 But I think a lot of those critics probably wanted to be you. 0.99

02:28:35.000 And they didn't get the chance, and they failed, and they got this job, and then they shit on everything. 0.99

02:28:40.000 And you gotta be able to take the hits. 0.99

02:28:42.000 And I took the hit, you know, like...

02:28:44.000 It strengthens you.

02:28:45.000 It strengthens your resolve.

02:28:47.000 Get knocked down seven, get up eight.

02:28:49.000 Like, I believe in that.

02:28:50.000 Like, if it's just all good all the time...

02:28:55.000 I think you get knocked down seven, you get up seven.

02:28:58.000 I think you have to get up seven times.

02:28:58.000 No, you get knocked down seven, you get up for the eighth time.

02:29:05.000 No, seven times.

02:29:07.000 You get knocked down the seventh time, you get up.

02:29:08.000 Is the phrase get knocked down seven, get up seven, or get knocked down seven, get up?

02:29:13.000 Well, whoever made the phrase, they're wrong.

02:29:15.000 Every time you get knocked down, you get up.

02:29:17.000 That's one time.

02:29:18.000 If you start up and get knocked down, one, one, you're one ahead of getting up because you started up.

02:29:25.000 No, no, you get knocked down one, you get up one.

02:29:28.000 You get knocked down two.

02:29:29.000 Fall down seven, get up eight. 1.00

02:29:31.000 Yeah, they're retarded. 1.00

02:29:32.000 So you're saying that Denzel Watson, Japanese proverb. 0.98

02:29:36.000 Yeah, that's great.

02:29:37.000 That's great.

02:29:38.000 So you're saying this is wrong?

02:29:39.000 Yeah, every time you get knocked down, you get up.

02:29:41.000 You can't get up if you haven't been knocked down. 1.00

02:29:43.000 That's stupid. 1.00

02:29:43.000 If you get knocked down seven times, you get up seven times. 1.00

02:29:46.000 Period.

02:29:46.000 It's like math, man.

02:29:48.000 You're making me do math.

02:29:49.000 Well, it's just delusion.

02:29:49.000 This is just like pump-you-up talk that doesn't make any sense.

02:29:54.000 So this has been misquoted.

02:29:54.000 You can climb any mountain.

02:29:56.000 No, you can't.

02:29:56.000 There's certain mountains you're not going to climb.

02:29:58.000 Shut the fuck up. 1.00

02:29:58.000 This is stupid. 1.00

02:30:00.000 I believe I can fly. 1.00

02:30:01.000 Well, you fucking can't, R. Kelly. 1.00

02:30:04.000 Jump off a building, see what happens. 1.00

02:30:06.000 You can't fly, okay?

02:30:08.000 You get knocked down seven, you get up seven times.

02:30:11.000 Because otherwise, there's no way to get up when you're already up.

02:30:15.000 Did you hear that?

02:30:16.000 Right?

02:30:16.000 Am I right?

02:30:18.000 I don't know what you're saying, but I also, like, you have to get up the first time to get up.

02:30:22.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:30:23.000 No, no, no. 1.00

02:30:24.000 You don't get credit for fucking... 1.00

02:30:25.000 You don't start up. 1.00

02:30:26.000 You don't get credit for not getting next.

02:30:28.000 Knocked down and getting up. 1.00

02:30:29.000 That's stupid. 1.00

02:30:29.000 But you don't start up. 1.00

02:30:30.000 Yes, you do.

02:30:31.000 You start standing up.

02:30:32.000 You get knocked down.

02:30:33.000 Now you're up.

02:30:34.000 You get knocked down once.

02:30:35.000 You get up once.

02:30:36.000 You have to get knocked down to get up.

02:30:38.000 You have to start up.

02:30:40.000 Nonsense. 1.00

02:30:41.000 You don't get extra credit for fucking standing up. 0.99

02:30:43.000 But getting in the ring. 0.99

02:30:44.000 You have to have courage.

02:30:46.000 You get knocked down.

02:30:48.000 The challenge is getting knocked down.

02:30:51.000 You fight.

02:30:53.000 You don't get credit for thinking you're gonna fight.

02:30:56.000 You have to actually do it.

02:30:57.000 When you actually do it and you get knocked down, you get up.

02:31:00.000 You get knocked down once, you get up once. 0.99

02:31:02.000 You get knocked down seven times, you get up seven fucking times. 0.99

02:31:06.000 You can't get up eight times. 0.99

02:31:07.000 What I like about what you're saying is it's just like, oh, I can climb any mountain. 1.00

02:31:13.000 No, you fucking can't. 0.99

02:31:14.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:31:15.000 Like, get knocked down, get up. 1.00

02:31:16.000 Who fucking gives you shit? 1.00

02:31:17.000 Just get up. 1.00

02:31:18.000 Get up.

02:31:18.000 Like, that's the kind of advice.

02:31:21.000 I'm a fan of.

02:31:25.000 Life is not fair.

02:31:27.000 You're going to come into the whatever, if you want really to have success, you're going to see people that work less, that have luck or connections or who fucking soar past you and it won't be fair.

02:31:42.000 Deal with it. 0.99

02:31:43.000 Fucking deal with it. 0.99

02:31:44.000 Well, you can't compare yourself. 0.99

02:31:46.000 You know, that's the great quote.

02:31:47.000 Comparison is the thief of joy.

02:31:49.000 You can't compare yourself.

02:31:50.000 You can look to other people for inspiration.

02:31:52.000 Have you always felt that?

02:31:54.000 Have you always been that way?

02:31:55.000 Like back in the day when Fear Factor days and before you were Joe, like you are now, were you competitive?

02:32:02.000 Were you...

02:32:03.000 I wasn't competitive with other TV shows.

02:32:05.000 You were just playing your own game.

02:32:06.000 Well, Fear Factor wasn't an example because that was just a job.

02:32:09.000 Fear Factor was I didn't want to work with actors anymore.

02:32:11.000 What about doing stand-up?

02:32:12.000 You were doing stand-up then?

02:32:14.000 Yeah, but stand-up was just a thing that I loved to do.

02:32:17.000 And I did it.

02:32:17.000 I mean, certainly compared myself to other people that were doing better than me.

02:32:20.000 Like, wow, why are they doing better than me?

02:32:21.000 Why are they more successful?

02:32:22.000 Why do they sell out everywhere and I don't?

02:32:24.000 Yeah, but then eventually I caught up.

02:32:27.000 You know, you just keep working.

02:32:29.000 That's all it is.

02:32:30.000 All it is is, like, keep improving and working.

02:32:33.000 And if you don't have the desire to keep improving and working, you should get out.

02:32:36.000 Because you're in the wrong business.

02:32:38.000 Because there's going to be a bunch of people that do have that desire. 0.99

02:32:40.000 And if you want to live a life of mediocrity and half-assedness and just fucking... 0.96

02:32:45.000 Kind of showing up and doing the bare minimum. 0.99

02:32:48.000 What kind of a fucking life is that? 0.99

02:32:51.000 That's not fun. 1.00

02:32:52.000 That's not exciting.

02:32:53.000 That's not stimulating.

02:32:55.000 Some people don't have drive.

02:32:57.000 They don't have this desire.

02:32:59.000 You can't make a championship fighter out of someone who doesn't like working out.

02:33:04.000 You can't.

02:33:05.000 It's not going to happen.

02:33:06.000 Like, you have to have something inside you, a calling to whatever you're doing.

02:33:11.000 For you, it is filmmaking.

02:33:12.000 You have a calling to this thing.

02:33:14.000 It's a passion project.

02:33:15.000 It's love.

02:33:16.000 It's art.

02:33:17.000 It's intensity.

02:33:18.000 It's discipline and focus. 0.99

02:33:20.000 And you're trying to make the best fucking thing you can make. 0.97

02:33:22.000 And if you're not doing that, you shouldn't be doing what you're doing. 0.99

02:33:26.000 Or you need a come-to-Jesus moment.

02:33:28.000 You need a refocusing.

02:33:29.000 You need something that, like, Pressfield had, where he realized he was kind of like 40 years old and, like, half-assed.

02:33:36.000 He turned it around and he talks about how he turned it around by deciding that he's a professional.

02:33:41.000 Amazing career since then, which is kind of spectacular. 0.98

02:33:44.000 For anyone that doesn't know Steven Pressfield and they want to do anything, like writing, sports, podcasts, that motherfucker has laid it out. 0.99

02:33:54.000 And I'm not a big fan of self-help, tell me shit. 0.99

02:33:59.000 The War of Art, that dude, in my opinion, and I think yours, That's the real deal. 0.99

02:34:05.000 Yeah, it's a guidebook.

02:34:07.000 It's a guidebook for creativity and discipline and becoming a professional.

02:34:11.000 And he really laid it out.

02:34:12.000 And he laid it out also with his own personal examples of failure, which I think are very important. 0.94

02:34:17.000 You need to know that this struggle that you're experiencing when you feel like you're fucking up, everybody has that. 0.61

02:34:24.000 Nobody is just like gung-ho, the best of the best right out of the gate. 0.94

02:34:28.000 You learn, you improve, it's us.

02:34:31.000 It's a long, slow journey. 0.99

02:34:34.000 It takes a lot of fucking work. 0.99

02:34:35.000 And if you're not interested in doing that, well, you better find something else. 0.99

02:34:38.000 And there's a lot of people that aren't interested in that.

02:34:40.000 A lot of people just want to do a job where they make some money, and then at the end of the day, they can go play video games, hang out with their kids.

02:34:46.000 That's great.

02:34:47.000 There's nothing wrong with that.

02:34:48.000 There's nothing wrong with that.

02:34:49.000 But if you want to do something that's extraordinary, that's very hard, it's going to take extraordinary effort.

02:34:55.000 It's going to take extraordinary discipline and willpower, and it's going to take objectivity.

02:34:59.000 You're going to have to have introspection.

02:35:01.000 It's going to be a lot of things.

02:35:02.000 You're going to have a lot of soul searching. 1.00

02:35:04.000 And you still might fucking get your ass kicked. 1.00

02:35:06.000 Still might get your ass kicked. 1.00

02:35:07.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:35:08.000 Right?

02:35:08.000 Yeah, but that's why when people do succeed and someone can put together something like American Primeval, it's so fantastic because we know how hard it is to do.

02:35:18.000 It's not easy.

02:35:19.000 Are you going to apologize to your wife for me, or do I have to?

02:35:21.000 No, no, no.

02:35:22.000 She's used to watching. 0.98

02:35:24.000 She fucking freaked out in Nosferatu, too. 0.98

02:35:26.000 She hated that, too. 0.98

02:35:26.000 You have to watch that movie, The Climax, that I was talking about. 0.98

02:35:30.000 I'm not going to watch that with her.

02:35:31.000 No, no, no.

02:35:32.000 Definitely don't watch it with her.

02:35:34.000 So, The Climax.

02:35:35.000 Tell everybody.

02:35:36.000 You were telling me about it in the gym.

02:35:37.000 Last night, I watched this film.

02:35:41.000 It's called The Climax. 0.99

02:35:43.000 It's made by this French director who's made some really fucked up... 1.00

02:35:47.000 Gasper Noe, his name is. 0.98

02:35:50.000 He's from...

02:35:51.000 My son made me watch this film. 0.99

02:35:55.000 And this guy's made some really fucked up films. 0.96

02:35:58.000 And I don't recommend them if you have any sensitivity. 0.98

02:36:02.000 Because this guy is the hardest filmmaker out there right now, in my opinion. 0.98

02:36:07.000 These are fucking intense movies. 0.96

02:36:09.000 They're one called Irreversible. 1.00

02:36:10.000 Did one called Enter the Void.

02:36:12.000 And they're about drugs and death and sex.

02:36:15.000 And they're very experiential.

02:36:17.000 So you feel like you're...

02:36:20.000 Yeah, so this is it.

02:36:21.000 This is the climax. 1.00

02:36:22.000 And it's about these dancers who accidentally drink a bunch of fucking LSD. And this is the hardest film I think I've ever seen in my life. 0.99

02:36:34.000 And you feel like you are...

02:36:37.000 On a very, very, very bad LSD trip.

02:36:40.000 Is this in subtitles?

02:36:42.000 Yeah, it's French.

02:36:43.000 It's French, but its language is almost irrelevant.

02:36:46.000 But if you want to...

02:36:48.000 I don't recommend LSD because I'm not a doctor and I think it's a very dangerous...

02:36:54.000 And I've done LSD and I've had some pretty intense experiences on it.

02:36:59.000 But this is a brilliantly deranged...

02:37:05.000 Have you ever had a bad trip?

02:37:07.000 Like a really bad trip?

02:37:08.000 Not really.

02:37:09.000 So I haven't either.

02:37:09.000 And I've done, you know, some of the DMT and the 5MEO and, you know, Mushrooms.

02:37:15.000 I've had powerful experiences.

02:37:17.000 But I did have one bad experience on LSD the first time I ever took it.

02:37:21.000 And none of us had ever taken it before, so we didn't feel it.

02:37:25.000 So we took another hit thinking that.

02:37:27.000 So we all basically were a bunch of high school kids in New York City trying to go to a Santana concert. 0.98

02:37:32.000 It just started fucking tripping out. 0.92

02:37:35.000 And it was scary. 0.99

02:37:38.000 It was actually really, really scary.

02:37:39.000 This movie is experientially, it becomes, and this is something that is one of my strategies when I'm making movies, is I don't want my movie to be a spectator sport.

02:37:54.000 I don't want you watching it.

02:37:55.000 I want you participating. 0.99

02:37:57.000 I want to try and grab you by the throat and make you watch. 0.98

02:38:01.000 And be like, come on, bro. 0.99

02:38:03.000 Watch. 1.00

02:38:03.000 Put the fucking phone down. 1.00

02:38:05.000 I want to own your heart and your mind and your pulse while you're watching my films. 1.00

02:38:09.000 That's just a goal.

02:38:11.000 Sometimes I do better than others, but that's always the goal.

02:38:15.000 I don't want you kind of sitting back watching. 0.99

02:38:18.000 This motherfucker, Gaspar Noe, he takes you into it in a way that I'm sure a lot of people will hate it. 0.99

02:38:26.000 Is he the guy that speaks to you the most right now? 1.00

02:38:31.000 No, I don't.

02:38:33.000 I mean, there's a part of me like, so I'm getting ready to make a film called Mosquito Ball, this war movie.

02:38:38.000 And these young kids went through, I don't know if you know, the Pacific Theater campaign and what the battles of Tarawa and Guadalcanal and Okinawa.

02:38:47.000 These were hellacious. 0.99

02:38:49.000 Awful fucking violent fights. 0.99

02:38:51.000 And the Japanese wouldn't surrender and they believed in Emperor Horihito so they would fight to the death. 0.99

02:38:57.000 You know, Banzai charges and seppuku, they would kill themselves before they would be taken prisoner. 1.00

02:39:03.000 In World War II you had these young American kids who in our movie were college football players who Pearl Harbor hits and they immediately joined the military and they have to go fight these fucking horrific battles. 0.89

02:39:17.000 Just people's throats getting blown out and torturing and killing and suicides from the locals.

02:39:24.000 And so to me, one of my goals with this next film is I want to try, because there's been a lot of good war films, just like there have been a lot of good westerns, and I always said, well, I never got to make one, so I want to try and make a western that was American Primeval.

02:39:39.000 There's been a lot of great war films, great war films, but I never got to make one.

02:39:43.000 So my take is to try and bring people into the experience.

02:39:47.000 But you have made war films.

02:39:49.000 World War II. Oh, okay. 0.86

02:39:52.000 So you're right.

02:39:52.000 I made Lone Survivor, but I never made a World War II film.

02:39:56.000 And there have been a lot of great ones, you know, from Private Ryan to Hacksaw Ridge.

02:40:00.000 Private Ryan was probably the first one that was realistic, though, right?

02:40:03.000 Yeah.

02:40:04.000 I mean, that opening scene. 1.00

02:40:06.000 Holy fucking shit. 0.99

02:40:07.000 Which is like why Steve, for anyone, like you ask me who I look up to, Steven Spielberg. 1.00

02:40:11.000 He is so far and ahead the goat of my business to think that the guy who did fucking Jurassic Park and E.T., God love both, Close Encounters, then is like, oh.

02:40:23.000 You know, and Spielberg was always like the good boy of the... 0.86

02:40:26.000 Because it was like he was growing up with like Coppola and Scorsese and Michael Mann and these guys were like...

02:40:32.000 Gritty. 1.00

02:40:32.000 Yeah, they were just fucking hard partying motherfuckers. 1.00

02:40:35.000 You know, hard drinking, hard drugging, hard fucking filmmakers. 1.00

02:40:40.000 And Steven was like the good, goody good... 0.99

02:40:42.000 Well, little Steven, he's got to go home soon.

02:40:47.000 Keep the girls in the garage. 1.00

02:40:49.000 Steven's still here.

02:40:50.000 And then Steven's like, oh, really?

02:40:52.000 And then he makes Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List.

02:40:58.000 And he goes, oh, really?

02:41:01.000 You don't think that I know how to do war? 0.99

02:41:03.000 Saving Private Ryan was like another fucking level. 0.99

02:41:07.000 Another level. 0.98

02:41:09.000 To answer your question, Spielberg's who I look up to still the most, and I think he's on a whole other level based on the scope of his work. 0.98

02:41:18.000 But Gaspar Noe, if I'm thinking about the thing I got out of watching this film that I would try and use in my own way for Mosquito Ball, for a war movie, is the idea that you want to try and take the audience into what it would have been like to try and get on that fucking beach. 0.87

02:41:36.000 And, you know, in the case of my film, There was a battle of Tarawa and they were trying to get ashore, but they fucked up the tides.

02:41:44.000 So they came in and the tides were too low.

02:41:46.000 So those landing craft all got stuck on the tides, on the coral reef.

02:41:50.000 And they started getting bombed by the Japanese who were hiding in the caves and they brought their big guns out. 0.99

02:41:56.000 So these kids were getting blown up before they even got to the fucking beach. 0.99

02:42:02.000 They were getting killed. 0.99

02:42:04.000 Best friends or body parts are floating in the fucking oceans, and there's sharks, and there's giant surf waves, and they're getting rocked before they've ever even got... 0.99

02:42:14.000 So I'm like, okay, well, how do I want to show that? 0.94

02:42:18.000 And I look at a movie like Climax, and I'm like, all right, different horror, bad acid, bad LSD, but my God, I had to stop watching it.

02:42:30.000 And I knew I was coming in here today and I'm starting to have an anxiety attack because I want to get sleep to do, you know, to talk to you. 0.98

02:42:37.000 And I'm fucking watching this movie and I'm all worked up because he's taken me into the fucking experience. 0.96

02:42:44.000 And he does his movie Into the Void is about DMT. And he takes you into the experience of DMT. So for anyone who doesn't ever want to experience and, you know, things that you've touched and I've touched, You can watch these movies and you can be like, whoa, I'm getting that feeling. 0.99

02:43:07.000 And that's a real accomplishment for a filmmaker.

02:43:10.000 And it's immersive.

02:43:12.000 So watch it, but don't let your wife... 1.00

02:43:14.000 I'll definitely watch it.

02:43:15.000 Do not. 1.00

02:43:16.000 I don't want the shit. 1.00

02:43:17.000 She won't. 1.00

02:43:17.000 I don't want her... 1.00

02:43:18.000 Don't worry.

02:43:19.000 She's not going to.

02:43:20.000 It is not for everyone.

02:43:21.000 I can't talk her into watching anything that she doesn't want to watch.

02:43:24.000 She only watched American Primeval because I told her it was going to be really awesome, and she loves Yellowstone and 1883, but there was like...

02:43:31.000 We're violent. 0.99

02:43:33.000 It's fucking violent. 0.99

02:43:34.000 Well, it's also... 0.99

02:43:36.000 It's that time period, I think, we do have...

02:43:41.000 We do have a bit of a problem culturally because a lot of the films that were created in the early days about the Wild West were very glossy.

02:43:49.000 They were very whitewashed.

02:43:51.000 It wasn't an accurate representation of what actually went down.

02:43:55.000 You know, film in the 1960s and 70s in particular, when it covered that subject, like spaghetti westerns, you know, great films, but it just never really quite captured the reality.

02:44:06.000 I don't think filmmaking was really ready for that experience because I think the settling of the West... 0.97

02:44:15.000 And making their way across the plains in particular and dealing with the Comanche and the Plains Indians.

02:44:21.000 Like, it is one of the most brutal experiences in human history.

02:44:25.000 They couldn't look at it in film back then.

02:44:27.000 There's no way.

02:44:28.000 People have asked, like, well, you know, when I was making it, is there going to be sex in the film?

02:44:35.000 Isaac and Sarah, are they going to fall in love?

02:44:37.000 Are they going to have sex? 1.00

02:44:38.000 I'm like, are you fucking... 1.00

02:44:40.000 Can you imagine what they would have smelt like? 1.00

02:44:45.000 Just think about just odor from head to toe.

02:44:49.000 There's no way these people were going to have sex. 1.00

02:44:52.000 There's no way they were going to smell each other or taste each other in any fucking way. 0.99

02:44:57.000 And that was like... 0.99

02:45:00.000 When we were putting it together and we're writing it and we're like, well should they have sex? 0.99

02:45:06.000 And we're like, there's no fucking way. 0.99

02:45:08.000 Just that alone. 0.99

02:45:10.000 It's amazing to me that people did have sex. 1.00

02:45:14.000 That were wanting to fuck each other. 1.00

02:45:17.000 Get the fuck away from me. 1.00

02:45:19.000 Yeah, they barely washed back then. 1.00

02:45:21.000 And they never brushed their teeth.

02:45:23.000 And making their way across the country, you're months on end.

02:45:28.000 Same clothes, no sanitation.

02:45:30.000 There were no tampons.

02:45:33.000 There's no toilet paper. 1.00

02:45:35.000 They didn't have Japanese toilets that blow water up your ass and you can fucking dry yourself. 1.00

02:45:43.000 This was a messy fucking world and they were not going to make... 1.00

02:45:47.000 I wanted to do a scene where Taylor Kitsch's character has to shit and he's constipated and he's got to use... 0.99

02:45:59.000 We had sticks to help them get it out. 0.99

02:46:01.000 Because we had read about that. 1.00

02:46:03.000 That was how you had to shit. 1.00

02:46:05.000 Because you were constipated all the time. 1.00

02:46:06.000 So you would have to stick wood up your ass and probe and break it up and force it out. 0.99

02:46:12.000 And we had that scene written. 0.98

02:46:16.000 And I called that one off. 0.98

02:46:20.000 By the way, Taylor Kitsch is fucking great. 0.99

02:46:23.000 He's a beast. 0.98

02:46:23.000 That scene in the first episode when they first meet him and he has to take off his clothes and he's changing and you see the scars all over his body. 0.98

02:46:32.000 Like, holy shit. 0.96

02:46:35.000 He's really good in that show. 1.00

02:46:38.000 He's really fucking good. 0.99

02:46:40.000 Taylor is such a great... 0.99

02:46:41.000 Great guy and a great actor.

02:46:43.000 And, you know, like, really proven. 0.99

02:46:46.000 Because he had some big fucking misses. 0.95

02:46:48.000 One of them was my film Battleship, which I'm proud of. 0.98

02:46:51.000 I love all my movies.

02:46:52.000 But I kind of made him do that film.

02:46:54.000 And he didn't quite work.

02:46:56.000 And he kind of had some other misses.

02:46:59.000 But he stayed true to himself and has built an incredible career.

02:47:05.000 And that's a guy who truly does, like...

02:47:08.000 He used to live here, and now this city got too big for him, so now he's way up in the crazy hills of Montana.

02:47:16.000 I'm just tracking wolves with cameras all day long.

02:47:20.000 I looked at some of your pictures out in the lobby of the wolves.

02:47:23.000 He sends me pictures all the time.

02:47:25.000 He's just so true to himself in that way.

02:47:29.000 That's awesome.

02:47:29.000 But yeah, he plays a bad man.

02:47:31.000 He plays it so well.

02:47:33.000 I think this is his best work ever.

02:47:35.000 I mean, he's been in a bunch of phenomenal projects, but this is his best.

02:47:40.000 It's so good, dude.

02:47:42.000 I appreciate it.

02:47:43.000 You should really be proud of it.

02:47:44.000 Thank you, man.

02:47:46.000 It's because it's not just really good.

02:47:48.000 It's really good about a very unique time when you have this convergence of American, you know, this emergence of these settlers trying to make their way across this country and dealing with the Indians.

02:48:05.000 And it's just phenomenal.

02:48:08.000 I mean, it's a crazy time in human history and a very brief time.

02:48:14.000 If you really think about the impact that the West has had on American culture, we think about Wild West.

02:48:20.000 Every kid grew up playing cowboys and Indians.

02:48:22.000 Like, this is a time that was a very short window.

02:48:25.000 It was only a couple hundred years.

02:48:27.000 And it really changed the entire world.

02:48:32.000 Because the successful settling of this country by the Europeans... 1.00

02:48:36.000 Changed everything.

02:48:37.000 The establishment of America changed everything.

02:48:40.000 And the only way it was going to happen was you got to get through the Indians. 1.00

02:48:43.000 So we're doing the next one on...

02:48:46.000 This is an announcement.

02:48:50.000 The next American Primeval is going to be on General Custer.

02:48:54.000 Yeah, man.

02:48:55.000 And we're going to focus on...

02:48:58.000 A period, short period of time leading up to Little Bighorn and how when, you know, because he is a very misunderstood character from American history.

02:49:07.000 And I'm sure you know a bit.

02:49:09.000 Are you a Custer fan?

02:49:11.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

02:49:11.000 I mean, he was a fucking... 1.00

02:49:14.000 Beast. 1.00

02:49:14.000 And he was a warrior in the Civil War who was leading in the front of the cavalry. 1.00

02:49:19.000 He started cavalry charges.

02:49:22.000 Can you imagine being in a cavalry charge? 1.00

02:49:26.000 Fucking 500 guys on your side, 500 of mine, and we're just galloping full fucking speed at each other and just fucking smashing. 0.99

02:49:35.000 And he just kept doing it all through the Civil War and was just a... 1.00

02:49:41.000 Badass.

02:49:41.000 The war ends, and he's a warrior.

02:49:44.000 He starts losing his mind because he doesn't know what to do with himself.

02:49:47.000 So they send him out west to deal with the Indian problem. 1.00

02:49:50.000 So have you thought about multiple versions of American Primeval with different characters throughout history?

02:49:56.000 Yeah, so the goal would be to do...

02:50:00.000 One of the things that was cool about American Primeval and reaction is people are like, whoa, I didn't know that about Brigham Young.

02:50:06.000 I didn't know this about Jim Bridger.

02:50:08.000 I didn't understand.

02:50:09.000 And so you get something that works. 0.98

02:50:11.000 Hopefully it's an entertaining, cool fucking show that's just... 0.99

02:50:15.000 Fucking awesome. 0.99

02:50:17.000 But you're also like, oh, wow, I'm going to fucking learn about the country, right? 0.98

02:50:20.000 So I like the idea of taking moments in American history, not necessarily all about the West, although Custer is something that Mark L. Smith and I are both kind of obsessed with. 0.96

02:50:31.000 And there's so much cool shit around the story of General Custer and Crazy Horse.

02:50:38.000 Building a fictional story around those characters and having some great actor play Custer is exciting. 0.61

02:50:44.000 But I could see doing the third one on something like the Attica Prison Riot, which has always obsessed me.

02:50:52.000 And if you followed that, there's an incredible book by Tom Wicker, who was a journalist called A Time to Die, that dissects...

02:51:00.000 That event.

02:51:01.000 Because I like events.

02:51:03.000 You know, like I'm good with events.

02:51:05.000 If you give me a contained event over a short period of time and I can tell that story and it's emotional and visceral, that's... 0.98

02:51:12.000 And Attica was fucking wild. 1.00

02:51:15.000 And how it started and how it escalated and the players involved and the negotiating to try and calm it down and the corrupt governor, Rockefeller, who wouldn't negotiate because they don't want to appear weak. 0.98

02:51:27.000 And then finally...

02:51:28.000 It just goes off and everyone's dead.

02:51:31.000 And it was a great look at the American prison system, racism, negotiations, religion, because the Black Panthers were in there and the Muslim Brotherhood. 0.92

02:51:45.000 So I like the idea of taking moments in American history that are probably pretty fucking violent and sort of presenting them and being like, wow, this is... 0.75

02:51:56.000 Thrilling and deeply entertaining.

02:51:59.000 But I never knew that.

02:52:01.000 And with Attica, this might get me to think a little bit about prison reform and the state of incarcerated American men today in America.

02:52:13.000 Because that story of Attica is deeply rooted in abusive prisoners all over America.

02:52:21.000 Have you done?

02:52:23.000 Anything on that?

02:52:24.000 No.

02:52:25.000 I mean, incarceration.

02:52:26.000 Well, I have done some shows with Josh Dubin, who used to work with The Innocent Project, and now Ike Perlmutter, sir.

02:52:34.000 And, you know, because of the show, we've gotten a lot of people actually that were wrongfully accused released. 0.99

02:52:40.000 The prison system is a fucking disaster. 1.00

02:52:43.000 It's a fucking disaster. 1.00

02:52:45.000 I mean, look, going back to Ksenia, this girl who's now in a fucking... 1.00

02:52:51.000 Working prison camp in Siberia. 1.00

02:52:54.000 We have fucked up prisons. 0.99

02:52:58.000 Russia, South America. 0.99

02:53:00.000 Can you imagine being in a Venezuelan prison right now?

02:53:04.000 And so I like the idea. 1.00

02:53:06.000 And America has its own unique flavor of fucking hell within prisons. 0.99

02:53:13.000 Not to make light of prison, right? 0.99

02:53:16.000 And I'm not.

02:53:16.000 But I actually had an idea.

02:53:18.000 A while ago for a show that I wanted to do, like Survivor or Fear Factor, take three guys, like take the three of us in this room right now, three fucking tough, badass American men, right? 0.77

02:53:33.000 Three? 0.61

02:53:34.000 Yeah, there's three of us in here.

02:53:37.000 In my mind, you are. 1.00

02:53:40.000 You're a fucking legend. 1.00

02:53:41.000 You're a legend, Jamie. 1.00

02:53:43.000 You're a fucking legend, Jamie. 1.00

02:53:45.000 But you put each... 1.00

02:53:47.000 Man in a maximum security prison somewhere in the world, like the worst.

02:53:52.000 So you're in Thailand, Jamie's in Venezuela, and I'm in Russia, okay?

02:53:57.000 And you go in by yourself, right?

02:54:00.000 And you just are put in the general population.

02:54:03.000 And the deal is, you can get out anytime you want.

02:54:07.000 You just have to say the code word.

02:54:09.000 Blue vase.

02:54:09.000 And the warden knows and the prison knows.

02:54:11.000 But nobody's telling...

02:54:13.000 Nobody knows.

02:54:14.000 Everyone thinks you're a prisoner.

02:54:16.000 Whoever stays in the longest gets $10 million.

02:54:21.000 And you have no idea when the other guys have gotten out.

02:54:24.000 Right. 0.97

02:54:25.000 So, like, you could stay in for five fucking years and me and Jamie got out in three minutes. 0.99

02:54:31.000 Oh, God. 0.99

02:54:32.000 But just, like, how you would survive.

02:54:36.000 Prison.

02:54:36.000 And what a horror prison is today.

02:54:39.000 And so that took me down a rabbit hole of maybe doing it as a film.

02:54:44.000 Maybe a good Squid Games movie.

02:54:46.000 Yeah, like Squid Games.

02:54:47.000 Did you ever see the movie Brubaker with Robert Redford?

02:54:50.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:54:50.000 What true story about a warden of a new prison who went in undercover as a prisoner to see what was going on.

02:55:00.000 But I think to do something like Attica, something like we're going to do Custer next.

02:55:05.000 But if you have any good ones, man, send them over.

02:55:08.000 I will.

02:55:08.000 All right, buddy.

02:55:09.000 Well, hey, brother.

02:55:10.000 Thank you very much for being here.

02:55:11.000 I appreciate you very much. 1.00

02:55:13.000 You're a fucking beast. 1.00

02:55:13.000 Your work is amazing. 1.00

02:55:14.000 Thanks for the workout this morning.

02:55:16.000 My pleasure.

02:55:16.000 It was fun.

02:55:17.000 I was so pumped when you wanted to do it.

02:55:19.000 I was like, yeah, let's go.

02:55:20.000 I appreciate it.

02:55:21.000 It was fun.

02:55:22.000 It was a good time.

02:55:22.000 Thank you, Jamie.

02:55:23.000 Mary from Primeval, right now on Netflix.

02:55:25.000 Can't recommend it enough.

02:55:26.000 Absolutely fantastic. 1.00

02:55:27.000 Peter Berg, you're the fucking man. 1.00

02:55:29.000 There it is. 1.00

02:55:31.000 Damn. 1.00

02:55:32.000 Alright. 1.00

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 27, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2280 - Peter Berg

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript