The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2282 - Bill Murray

00:00:00.000 The Joe Rogan experience train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day Thank you for doing this This is a huge honor for me.

00:00:16.000 I'm a giant fan.

00:00:17.000 Forever.

00:00:18.000 Like, since I was a kid.

00:00:21.000 Well, are we going?

00:00:22.000 Yeah, we're live.

00:00:23.000 So for me, there's certain people I meet where it's like, whoa, okay.

00:00:27.000 And you're one of those.

00:00:29.000 I have a very different experience.

00:00:31.000 I only know about you what I've heard.

00:00:33.000 I've never heard your show.

00:00:36.000 I had to ask you, are you Joe?

00:00:37.000 Because somehow I knew you were like in the fitness and everyone out there seems to be a weightlifter.

00:00:44.000 Even Danielle seems like she did lower body today. 1.00

00:00:49.000 So it's nice to meet you.

00:00:55.000 Some people are very, very excited that I've gotten to come down here to be on your show.

00:01:00.000 Well, you're an interesting guy.

00:01:01.000 Other people are concerned for me.

00:01:03.000 Oh, really?

00:01:03.000 Are they?

00:01:04.000 Legitimately?

00:01:05.000 I don't know.

00:01:06.000 I don't know why it's the weightlifter thing because I have no predisposed.

00:01:10.000 I have no premonitions.

00:01:12.000 But when I walk in here and I see...

00:01:15.000 I've got to look at that.

00:01:18.000 What is that green neon?

00:01:19.000 Oh, that's the...

00:01:20.000 Local racetrack.

00:01:21.000 That's the Circuit of the Americas where Formula One races.

00:01:24.000 It's my friend's place, so he gave me that.

00:01:28.000 Yeah, I walked in and I saw these Hunter Thompson things.

00:01:31.000 I felt automatically like, okay, well this guy can't be a complete disaster.

00:01:36.000 And then I walked down the hall and there's Hunter wearing a hat that I gave him.

00:01:41.000 Oh, that hat with the gun?

00:01:43.000 Yeah, the one where he's in a cockpit it looks like.

00:01:46.000 That's a dog hair hat.

00:01:47.000 That's dog hair.

00:01:49.000 It's made out of dog hair?

00:01:50.000 Yeah.

00:01:50.000 And he got such a kick out of it because when it rains on you or snows on you like it would in Woody Creek, you come in the house and you smell like a wet dog.

00:02:01.000 And he loved doing that to people.

00:02:03.000 The people were like, what in the hell? 0.87

00:02:06.000 Oh, my dog. 0.53

00:02:09.000 That's the dog right there.

00:02:10.000 Yeah.

00:02:11.000 Are you filming this too?

00:02:13.000 This is whatever you do?

00:02:15.000 Yeah.

00:02:15.000 Yeah, so.

00:02:18.000 Yeah, there he is.

00:02:19.000 There's that dog.

00:02:19.000 It had big tie things.

00:02:22.000 You could tie it under your chin.

00:02:23.000 What year was this?

00:02:26.000 This is...

00:02:27.000 Wow, look at that one.

00:02:32.000 Lawyers, guns, and money? 0.88

00:02:34.000 Yes.

00:02:35.000 Those are later ones.

00:02:36.000 He didn't have scopes for a long time.

00:02:40.000 He had hearing protection then, too.

00:02:43.000 He was learning.

00:02:44.000 86?

00:02:46.000 No.

00:02:48.000 Really?

00:02:48.000 Maybe.

00:02:49.000 What, that one there?

00:02:50.000 Is it 86?

00:02:51.000 With the dog?

00:02:52.000 Yeah.

00:02:52.000 Yeah, that's probably...

00:02:53.000 Yeah, it was earlier.

00:02:55.000 Blind Bat.

00:02:57.000 Blind Bat.

00:02:58.000 Where's that?

00:02:59.000 That's funny.

00:03:00.000 It's a historic piece, I guess.

00:03:03.000 When did you meet him?

00:03:05.000 I met him...

00:03:06.000 Let me drink your magic coffee here.

00:03:09.000 Whose coffee is this?

00:03:09.000 Laird Hamilton's.

00:03:10.000 Laird Hamilton's Superfoods.

00:03:12.000 I met him...

00:03:13.000 It was one of those years...

00:03:14.000 Maybe it was after my first...

00:03:15.000 Real year on Saturday Night Live, maybe it was 1977, like the spring, summer of 77. I was asked by Lorne Michaels, the producer of Saturday Night Live, if I would, I had to go to, our season was head-ended, I'd gone to California.

00:03:37.000 And he asked if I would drive his Volkswagen convertible bug back cross-country for him.

00:03:44.000 Yeah, sure.

00:03:45.000 Well, you know, a week or two later, I was like, where's my car?

00:03:48.000 I'm like, you didn't give me a time limit.

00:03:51.000 So I visited people on the way.

00:03:53.000 So I made some stops.

00:03:54.000 I visited my friend John Thompson in Reno, biggest little city in the world, and we threw our cups out the roof and stuff like that.

00:04:03.000 I had a really nice time there.

00:04:05.000 And then I wanted to go to Aspen.

00:04:06.000 I'd never been to Aspen before.

00:04:08.000 And so I went to Aspen and stayed at the Jerome Hotel.

00:04:12.000 I can talk like this because this show is like endless.

00:04:16.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:04:17.000 So, went to the Jerome Hotel, which was like the place to go back then.

00:04:24.000 And it was off-season, which is the best time of year to go to any resort town.

00:04:28.000 It's like when all the tourists are gone and the citizens regain control of their town for a while.

00:04:33.000 Yeah.

00:04:33.000 So, the Jerome Hotel, which would have been full of like...

00:04:36.000 Knucklehead skiers from anywhere was only full of like the people that worked the town and lived in the town and they took over the bar and they took over the swimming pool which was outside so that's I was there and it was just I remember being there and they were like beautiful girls and this really funny guy and I didn't know who he was and we just had the most fun you know making girls laugh that's kind of what It may or may not have been the reason I was brought here.

00:05:06.000 So we just had the most fun doing it.

00:05:09.000 And then we had this sort of episode where we did an escape act and it had consequences.

00:05:18.000 We started talking about an escape act, underwater escape act, and I felt like I could do it.

00:05:23.000 You really think you could escape underwater?

00:05:26.000 Oh, no.

00:05:26.000 And I said, yeah, I think I could do it.

00:05:28.000 I think I could do it because you just – so.

00:05:32.000 I agreed to be a subject.

00:05:36.000 And you have to know, I did not know who this guy was.

00:05:40.000 I just thought he was like a funny guy. 0.99

00:05:42.000 And we were like showing off for girls and stuff and being stupid. 0.99

00:05:46.000 And it was fun. 0.99

00:05:48.000 We were just having fun.

00:05:49.000 So I was tied with socks to a lawn chair and lowered into the pool.

00:05:55.000 But just before I went, I said, hey, just in case I want to take a breath while I'm untying my sock knots.

00:06:03.000 Move me over here to where it's like six feet, you know.

00:06:06.000 So if I have to stand up, you know, I can take a breath and go back down and continue by untying, you know.

00:06:16.000 So I went in and, you know, I was untying and a guy could tie some knots, you know, even with socks.

00:06:22.000 So after a little bit, I thought earlier, you know, maybe I'll just take a quick breath and go back down.

00:06:26.000 Well, I stood up.

00:06:28.000 Try it, Joe.

00:06:30.000 Lash yourself to a chair and try to stand up.

00:06:32.000 Yeah, it's hard.

00:06:33.000 Well, I'm a little over six feet, but if you're tied to a chair, you don't get to fully extend your calves any more than that.

00:06:42.000 So tied to a chair, I'm only like 5'8 or something like that.

00:06:49.000 It was funny to see that camera shot of there are people up there and I can't reach them or speak to them because I'm still underwater.

00:06:59.000 That's when I started to work more feverishly on the knots.

00:07:03.000 And I kind of was going, hey, hey.

00:07:08.000 I'm kind of leaning with my head, like push me down to five feet instead of six feet.

00:07:12.000 But he was strong enough.

00:07:13.000 And because I was buoyant in the water, he just picked up the chair out of the water.

00:07:18.000 So I lived through it.

00:07:20.000 But it was...

00:07:21.000 It was a funny way to meet someone.

00:07:23.000 And the next day I found out that this was Hunter S. Thompson.

00:07:28.000 He never asked him his name?

00:07:30.000 No.

00:07:31.000 He never asked me my name.

00:07:33.000 I don't know that he knew who I was either.

00:07:35.000 I think he thought I was just a funny guy and we were kind of like holding court and being funny.

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00:08:32.000 You'll get a welcome...

00:08:34.000 Well, that must be fun for you, though.

00:08:49.000 Like, I enjoy when people don't know who I am.

00:08:53.000 Like, it's very rare for you.

00:08:54.000 Yeah, it's preferable.

00:08:55.000 Yeah, but you have figured out this way of navigating life where...

00:09:00.000 Like, you're not a cell phone guy.

00:09:02.000 You probably don't even have email, do you?

00:09:04.000 No, I have these things now.

00:09:06.000 But if you have children, you have to get a cell phone.

00:09:10.000 Right.

00:09:10.000 Because they will not answer a telephone, but they will answer a text.

00:09:14.000 So that's...

00:09:15.000 I had a breakdown.

00:09:16.000 Yeah.

00:09:17.000 But you've managed to stay blissfully detached in some sort of way.

00:09:22.000 Yeah, my email is AOL.com.

00:09:24.000 Is it really?

00:09:25.000 Yeah.

00:09:26.000 So, that's...

00:09:28.000 That was my concession to it.

00:09:30.000 One of my favorite things you did with Hunter was when it was a filming of some sort of a documentary or something.

00:09:36.000 Or it was in a documentary, the footage is.

00:09:38.000 And you're going around trying to convince people that Nixon got a bad rap?

00:09:41.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:09:42.000 That was good.

00:09:43.000 We were trying to write something funny.

00:09:45.000 I was with my friend Dick Blasucci on that one.

00:09:49.000 And I can't remember.

00:09:50.000 There were like two or three of us that were trying to write this thing.

00:09:52.000 And we rented like a Klieg light.

00:09:56.000 You know, like a big Hollywood premiere, kind of one of those giant lights that they flash up in the sky.

00:10:01.000 You know, you don't even see them very much anymore.

00:10:03.000 And we were just outside the Chateau Montmartre where Hunter had a room at that moment.

00:10:08.000 And we were doing, we were excited because Nixon's back, you know.

00:10:13.000 And we were interviewing alleged people on the street, men on the street, saying, what do you think about this?

00:10:18.000 Because it was after Watergate and Nixon had basically burrowed down.

00:10:25.000 Hunter had a powerful hatred of Nixon.

00:10:29.000 I really didn't like Nixon, of course.

00:10:32.000 I just remember Dick Blesucci saying, I'm excited.

00:10:36.000 He's tanned, he's rested, and he's ready.

00:10:39.000 I still say it all the time.

00:10:42.000 I say it about myself all the time because I think it's funny.

00:10:45.000 How are you, Bill?

00:10:46.000 I'm tanned, I'm rested, and I'm ready.

00:10:47.000 But saying it about Richard Nixon, I thought, was a really...

00:10:50.000 Brilliant thing to say.

00:10:51.000 Well, after that, it became a common phrase.

00:10:53.000 Yeah.

00:10:53.000 People use it all the time to this day, probably not even knowing the origin.

00:10:56.000 That's right.

00:10:57.000 Yeah.

00:10:58.000 And it's Dick Blasucci who did it.

00:10:59.000 And we weren't there for like 45 minutes before like...

00:11:05.000 I work in the industry, and I know you have to have a permit to have that light on.

00:11:09.000 I mean, there were people.

00:11:10.000 They came at us.

00:11:11.000 We were a going concern for about...

00:11:14.000 One hour tops.

00:11:15.000 And that was with, like, professional argumentative people like Hunter, myself, going, that is a fabulous watch you're wearing.

00:11:23.000 Where'd you get that?

00:11:24.000 You know, just anything to keep this thing going and to keep the cameras rolling on our super stuff.

00:11:30.000 But, and demands.

00:11:33.000 But, yeah, that was one of the things.

00:11:36.000 I had a lot of fun with the guy.

00:11:37.000 He really was a lot of fun.

00:11:40.000 He really could make a lot of fun.

00:11:42.000 I really wish I met him.

00:11:43.000 He's one of those people that just really wish I met him.

00:11:46.000 Well, you can still read it.

00:11:48.000 Oh, yeah.

00:11:48.000 There's still so much more stuff that I hadn't even read then.

00:11:51.000 It just keeps appearing.

00:11:53.000 There are things that are so beautiful that he wrote that are good.

00:11:58.000 And, you know, people text me things and say about what's going on, how sort of prescient he was about things a long time ago.

00:12:07.000 Yeah, dead on about so many things.

00:12:10.000 I mean, you could take a lot of his commentary on politics from 1976 and apply it easily to today.

00:12:17.000 You know, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail is one of the best books ever on the American political system, just like what it's like when people are running for office.

00:12:24.000 Yeah, to me it's a better book than Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, which is really fun.

00:12:29.000 But the Campaign Trail book is so insightful about America and about...

00:12:35.000 Americans.

00:12:36.000 It's great reading.

00:12:37.000 The movie was fun.

00:12:38.000 Fear and Loathing was fun.

00:12:40.000 It was a great introduction to a lot of people, maybe, that weren't aware of Hunter.

00:12:44.000 Maybe then you'll start reading his stuff.

00:12:48.000 It wasn't all chaos and acid and seeing lizard people in the bar.

00:12:54.000 There's moments in Fear and Loathing the movie where there's this one thing where Johnny Depp is at the typewriter.

00:13:02.000 Is that in the movie or is that in the documentary?

00:13:07.000 Where he's at the typewriter, he's talking about how the 1960s, there was this great wave of change.

00:13:15.000 Yeah, the high water market.

00:13:16.000 You can see it on the mountains.

00:13:17.000 It's a beautiful piece of writing.

00:13:19.000 Oh, my God.

00:13:20.000 It's amazing.

00:13:21.000 And when Johnny Depp is saying it, the way he's saying it, it's so beautiful and melodic.

00:13:28.000 Jamie, why don't you see it?

00:13:29.000 It's about the most famous line in the world.

00:13:33.000 Let's take this in.

00:13:34.000 Grab the headphones.

00:13:35.000 Let's take this in.

00:13:38.000 Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas.

00:13:42.000 Has it been five years?

00:13:46.000 Six?

00:13:46.000 It seems like a lifetime.

00:13:49.000 The kind of peak that never comes again.

00:13:54.000 San Francisco in the middle 60s was a very special time and place to be a part of.

00:14:01.000 But no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time in the world.

00:14:12.000 Whatever it meant.

00:14:14.000 There was madness in any direction.

00:14:25.000 At any hour.

00:14:27.000 You could strike sparks anywhere.

00:14:31.000 There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right.

00:14:35.000 That we were winning.

00:14:38.000 And that, I think, was the handle.

00:14:42.000 That sense of inevitable victory over the forces of old and evil.

00:14:46.000 Not in any mean or military sense.

00:14:48.000 We didn't need that.

00:14:51.000 Our energy would simply prevail.

00:14:54.000 We had all the momentum.

00:14:56.000 We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave.

00:15:02.000 So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west.

00:15:10.000 And with the right kind of eyes, you can almost see the high watermark.

00:15:16.000 That place where the wave finally broke and rolled back. 0.99

00:15:21.000 God damn, that's good. 0.98

00:15:29.000 That is just an amazing piece of writing that so perfectly captured that very strange moment in time where the anti-war, the peace-love movement just got drowned out by the Nixon administration. 0.99

00:15:46.000 It's a beautiful piece.

00:15:49.000 It glistens your eyes to see it.

00:15:55.000 Thinking of Hunter and the words that he said, but seeing Johnny and how close Johnny and Hunter became, how much they loved each other and how much they shared with each other.

00:16:05.000 It's really a beautiful piece.

00:16:07.000 Thank you.

00:16:07.000 Yeah, it is a beautiful piece.

00:16:09.000 And it's just so fucking perfect. 0.67

00:16:14.000 It just perfectly... 0.95

00:16:14.000 Yeah, he got it. 0.95

00:16:15.000 He really got it.

00:16:16.000 Yeah.

00:16:17.000 It just encapsulates that time.

00:16:20.000 You know, and it's just, thank God there was a guy like him around to document it from that perspective, to give you this, like, insight, and that the way he did it with Gonzo journalism, where he just would have real facts mixed in with fiction, and you couldn't tell what was what, and you had to be in on it to understand what he was doing.

00:16:40.000 Yeah, you had to enter the event to comment on it.

00:16:44.000 You had to be a part of it.

00:16:45.000 Yeah.

00:16:48.000 You played him.

00:16:49.000 I did play him.

00:16:49.000 Yeah, we were talking about it before.

00:16:51.000 I loved it.

00:16:52.000 We're in the Buffalo Room?

00:16:52.000 Yeah, we're in the Buffalo Room.

00:16:54.000 Was that weird to play your friend?

00:16:56.000 It was a lot of responsibility.

00:16:59.000 Yeah.

00:17:00.000 It was any actor that has to play either a living person, especially a living person, or a famous person has a real responsibility to...

00:17:14.000 To that person, you know, you can't just be that person for 90 minutes.

00:17:19.000 You have to realize that person was that person for 60-some-odd years or 70 or however many years the person was.

00:17:26.000 You've got to try to get all that into your...

00:17:29.000 Hour and a half or two hours.

00:17:31.000 You've got to try to take in as much as you can so you're not lying.

00:17:34.000 At least you're giving the best you can to say, this is who I think he was.

00:17:38.000 This is who I think that person was.

00:17:40.000 She was.

00:17:40.000 He was.

00:17:41.000 Did you run any of it by him?

00:17:44.000 Did you try to talk to him as him?

00:17:50.000 Well, he was living in the guest house.

00:17:55.000 So you were around him all the time?

00:17:56.000 Yeah.

00:17:58.000 So I would go to work and I would come home and then we would stay up and sort of just an hour or so before, maybe an hour and a half before, two hours before dawn, he'd have a NyQuil and scotch in the hot tub and then go to sleep.

00:18:23.000 And then I had to get about 90 minutes and then...

00:18:26.000 The teamster was knocking on the window saying, Bill!

00:18:31.000 Billy!

00:18:32.000 And I'd have to go to work.

00:18:33.000 So that's what it was like while we were shooting the movie.

00:18:36.000 Wow.

00:18:38.000 And he appears in the movie briefly.

00:18:41.000 He appears in the movie briefly.

00:18:43.000 I can't remember all of it, but he appears in the movie briefly.

00:18:45.000 And we did, together we wrote a scene.

00:18:47.000 I was always constantly changing.

00:18:51.000 John K. wrote the script, but I was always playing with it because I was always being informed more, you know.

00:18:57.000 And that's what I did anyway.

00:18:59.000 I just pretty much, you know, I felt the freedom to change anything.

00:19:05.000 But we did write a scene.

00:19:08.000 Hunter and I wrote a scene that was late in the movie.

00:19:11.000 Pardon me.

00:19:12.000 They gave me these beautiful, massive things.

00:19:17.000 Cough drops?

00:19:17.000 Yeah.

00:19:18.000 Want one?

00:19:18.000 No, thank you.

00:19:19.000 Yeah, so he was in on a lot of it and the editing of it, you know, we can secretly say that too.

00:19:32.000 and And the, you know, it was a lot of, he was really involved.

00:19:41.000 Very nice.

00:19:43.000 So...

00:19:43.000 Good shot.

00:19:46.000 So you're saying he wrote a scene?

00:19:47.000 You guys wrote a scene together?

00:19:48.000 Yeah, we wrote a scene together, yeah.

00:19:49.000 Which was encountering Nixon in a urinal.

00:19:53.000 Because he did have a moment with Nixon.

00:19:56.000 Yes.

00:19:57.000 In the limo.

00:19:58.000 Remember, yeah.

00:19:58.000 Yeah.

00:19:59.000 And he was told he could not speak politics.

00:20:01.000 They could only talk NFL football.

00:20:02.000 Yeah.

00:20:03.000 Which Nixon was rather, you know, knowledgeable about.

00:20:08.000 Yeah.

00:20:08.000 And Hunter Copter was like, yeah, the guy really studied it.

00:20:11.000 And George Allen, it's in the book, you know.

00:20:15.000 Yeah.

00:20:16.000 Nixon even wrote, designed a play that he gave to George Allen, who was the coach of the Washington Redskins back then.

00:20:24.000 And...

00:20:25.000 They lost like 10 yards or something on the play, but Allen actually ran the play.

00:20:32.000 Wow.

00:20:33.000 That's crazy.

00:20:34.000 It's just also insane that they would let Hunter get in a limousine with the president.

00:20:41.000 Just that alone.

00:20:45.000 You know, who greenlit that?

00:20:47.000 Who thought that was a good idea?

00:20:49.000 I mean, he was on the campaign trail.

00:20:51.000 He also, for whatever he was, the people who knew, and you know, like Secret Service guys, you ever run into them, they like read people for a living.

00:21:00.000 This is what they do, you know?

00:21:01.000 They read people.

00:21:03.000 And they can really burn a hole through your head and your body just looking at you.

00:21:09.000 And they'll give you this one, you know?

00:21:10.000 They'll just really burn you.

00:21:12.000 And, you know, he'd been on the tour, the tour.

00:21:15.000 He'd been on the road with them.

00:21:17.000 They knew who he was.

00:21:18.000 They knew what he was after hours and they knew what he was during hours where the people who were really smart knew this guy's really smart.

00:21:26.000 This guy's really smart.

00:21:27.000 He knows politics.

00:21:28.000 And you can't try to dumb down. 0.98

00:21:32.000 You can't try to, like, big time him because he'll kill you. 1.00

00:21:35.000 He'll chop you. 0.98

00:21:35.000 He's got the words to answer and he has the intelligence. 0.98

00:21:41.000 So he was...

00:21:42.000 He was a force.

00:21:43.000 People knew who he was.

00:21:44.000 To get information, you've got to go into the people who work for the guy.

00:21:51.000 So the people that work for the guy know who he is, and they've already established that they have a relationship with him.

00:21:58.000 They can speak with him.

00:21:59.000 He's talking a certain way.

00:22:01.000 There's a reality check.

00:22:02.000 If you're running someone's political campaign, you have the best jokes about the campaign.

00:22:07.000 You know, not Hunter Thompson, maybe.

00:22:09.000 You have the best jokes because you've seen it all. 1.00

00:22:11.000 You know how stupid things get. 0.99

00:22:13.000 And, you know, if you can be realistic and savvy about those things, then people trust you. 0.99

00:22:18.000 Well, it's still pretty extraordinary that they also got him to agree, or at least thought he would agree, that he would only talk about football.

00:22:27.000 Well, he knew if he blew it, that was it.

00:22:30.000 And that was going to be the end of it.

00:22:31.000 And it was only, you know, I don't know what month it was.

00:22:34.000 There's more coffee in this, I feel like.

00:22:36.000 Oh, is that your stuff?

00:22:37.000 No, that's everybody's.

00:22:38.000 Okay, well, we'll try to finish it all off.

00:22:41.000 I just feel like yours is probably just sitting there for a while.

00:22:43.000 It doesn't have to be super.

00:22:45.000 I keep coffee for days.

00:22:47.000 At least two days.

00:22:48.000 If it's not hot, it's got ice in it.

00:22:50.000 You just keep drinking?

00:22:51.000 I just keep drinking it.

00:22:52.000 Yeah.

00:22:53.000 That smells good.

00:22:54.000 What kind is that?

00:22:55.000 Black Rifle Coffee.

00:22:56.000 Where does that come from?

00:22:58.000 It's an American company, veteran-owned company, made by Real Coffee Nuts.

00:23:04.000 Travel around the world and find different blends and different...

00:23:08.000 It smells good.

00:23:09.000 There's a lot of coffee you can't even smell.

00:23:10.000 It's excellent.

00:23:10.000 It's very good coffee.

00:23:13.000 Yeah.

00:23:14.000 It's just that meeting in the limousine is like one of my favorite meetings because it just...

00:23:19.000 You could feel how weird it must have been for Hunter to be sitting in a limo getting a ride with Nixon and they're just talking about football and then they can find common ground.

00:23:30.000 Well, it's very much like this is happening...

00:23:31.000 This has been happening in my life anyway, and I'm sure it's happening in everyone's life for the last, got to be 10 years, where you meet people, we have something in common, we've got something we've got to get done, you know.

00:23:47.000 But if we talk politics, we're leaving the rails, you know.

00:23:50.000 All hell's going to, you know, we're not going to get anything done.

00:23:55.000 We're never going to be friends.

00:23:57.000 And, you know, it could be worse than that.

00:24:00.000 We could be adversaries or even enemies or, you know, so that, I mean, it's, you mentioned it, it's like, I go places where, and I'm sure you do too, where you just can't talk, you just don't want to talk politics with people because there are people that are,

00:24:17.000 you know, whose politics can be the exact opposite of yours, completely 12 to 6. And yet there are people that have lived lives that are so extraordinary and so enormous in terms of what they give to the world and the planet.

00:24:34.000 And you think, why would I ever want to get...

00:24:39.000 It's a mystery.

00:24:41.000 It's kind of a mystery.

00:24:43.000 But if you don't value that first instead of your kind of political...

00:24:51.000 You know, handkerchief.

00:24:52.000 You know, you're making more of a mess, you know.

00:24:56.000 That's kind of what's, you know, that's what I feel a lot about what's going on anywhere, everywhere, you know, that people are leading with their handkerchief and not with their whole self, you know, what they understand about what living is.

00:25:13.000 I agree 100%.

00:25:14.000 I think that we're just too tribally divided, and people look at it like it's us versus them.

00:25:21.000 They enjoy the comfort of being a part of a tribe.

00:25:24.000 They lock on to whatever ideologies the tribe support, and then anybody who opposes that is somehow or another the enemy.

00:25:31.000 And it's just a division tactic that's been used by the people that actually run the government, the actual world itself.

00:25:39.000 People of this world, especially the people of this country, mostly share the same common core needs.

00:25:47.000 You want to be healthy.

00:25:48.000 You want to have a good family.

00:25:49.000 You want to be able to make a living.

00:25:51.000 You want to live in a safe place.

00:25:53.000 You want your kids to be able to go to a good school.

00:25:55.000 You want everybody to prosper and have a good time.

00:25:57.000 That's most of what life is. 0.99

00:26:00.000 All this other shit that people get so goddamn caught up in, most of it has very little to do with you. 0.99

00:26:07.000 And you get locked into it like it's 100% of your identity, and the next thing you know, anybody who opposes you is Hitler. 0.99

00:26:14.000 And it just gets...

00:26:16.000 That's true.

00:26:17.000 It gets so toxic.

00:26:18.000 His name gets bandied about a lot lately, doesn't it?

00:26:21.000 Yeah, it's a good one.

00:26:22.000 But you sort of started it by saying, by bringing up that quotation of hunters, which is so...

00:26:26.000 And I think about that all the time.

00:26:29.000 I can not...

00:26:32.000 But I think about it regularly.

00:26:34.000 Like, what was that force?

00:26:37.000 That that movement had, that anti-war movement, whatever that was, you know, it wasn't perfect.

00:26:44.000 You know, it wasn't perfect.

00:26:45.000 I think the thing that if I had to regret anything or anyone regrets anything about it was the sort of hostility that was shown towards the actual servicemen, most of whom were drafted, you know, to fight, you know.

00:27:00.000 So those service people had an experience that I will never have.

00:27:04.000 I was in a military movie.

00:27:05.000 That's as good as it ever got for me.

00:27:06.000 But the thing about being in war together with people is everybody hates war.

00:27:13.000 And who could hate it more than someone that was there?

00:27:15.000 But the sort of camaraderie that you had is an experience.

00:27:19.000 I'll never have that.

00:27:20.000 I'll never have that thing that Rambo had. 1.00

00:27:24.000 I'll never have that thing.

00:27:27.000 And I don't think that – I think that the sort of – there could have been more vision about who we're talking to or who we're talking to about whatever kind of change you want to make.

00:27:40.000 And so that the agents of it are not necessarily the architects like you say.

00:27:45.000 The people who are making this tribal thing.

00:27:48.000 They're not the agents of it.

00:27:50.000 They're the architects of it.

00:27:52.000 And how do you jump over or how do you excuse or not excuse isn't the word but how do you Unite?

00:28:03.000 Miss the people that are the agents who are just people that have a job or whatever it is.

00:28:08.000 They're doing their work to survive and live, whatever it is.

00:28:14.000 How do you get to the architects with whatever you feel is what could be a shared experience and get them to sort of dissolve the creation of the tribal world? 0.84

00:28:26.000 I think you ask a great question.

00:28:29.000 You have people on here, I guess, that...

00:28:31.000 Know, you know, or think about those things and have the ability to do something about it.

00:28:36.000 I don't think I have the ability to do anything more than something for myself mostly.

00:28:42.000 But you do because you have the ability to express yourself and you're an example.

00:28:46.000 And a lot of times when someone is a very reasonable, intelligent person like you and you express yourself, other people get inspired to maybe re-examine the way they're looking at things.

00:28:55.000 Well, that's a nice hope.

00:28:58.000 I hope that maybe that'll happen.

00:29:00.000 I think that's maybe one of the only things.

00:29:01.000 Well, right back at you then.

00:29:02.000 Okay.

00:29:02.000 Thank you.

00:29:03.000 Because part of our problem in this country is that we're in competition every two years.

00:29:07.000 Every two years you have midterms.

00:29:09.000 It is crazy, isn't it?

00:29:10.000 Elections every four years.

00:29:11.000 We don't get a break.

00:29:12.000 No, we don't get a break.

00:29:13.000 We don't get a break from these people.

00:29:14.000 No, we don't get a break.

00:29:15.000 We don't get a break from division.

00:29:17.000 We don't get a break.

00:29:17.000 We don't get a break from propaganda.

00:29:19.000 We don't get a break from new threats.

00:29:22.000 We don't get a break.

00:29:23.000 It's like every day it's a new thing.

00:29:25.000 And it keeps us completely in this...

00:29:29.000 It's a constant state of stress and anxiety and also this fear of being overcome, like your side's going to lose.

00:29:38.000 Yeah, if I fall asleep too early tonight, I'm supposed to be on watch or something.

00:29:44.000 Yeah, it's a very...

00:29:46.000 Very stressful, and it's not healthy for human beings to be constantly in this state of competition and stress.

00:29:52.000 It's bad for...

00:29:53.000 And then on top of that, you have... 0.97

00:29:54.000 Most people are addicted to social media, so you're constantly getting inundated with the worst fucking things in the world all day long, and you're freaking out. 0.98

00:30:02.000 It's terrible for you. 1.00

00:30:04.000 It's fucking terrible for you. 0.99

00:30:05.000 I mean, that footage made me cry. 1.00

00:30:06.000 Now you're going to make me cry.

00:30:07.000 Okay, no, it's...

00:30:08.000 But it's true.

00:30:10.000 It's...

00:30:10.000 Someone's got a...

00:30:12.000 There has to be some sort of a new, I don't know if it has to be a club, but there's got to be some sort of new music.

00:30:18.000 You know, it used to be music.

00:30:19.000 I think music played such a big part of whatever that movement was, whatever you call the peace movement or the hippies or, you know, whatever it was.

00:30:29.000 It was an extraordinary moment in time.

00:30:32.000 And the music was part of the experience and part of the, it brought the message.

00:30:41.000 It crashed through everybody's brain.

00:30:43.000 There wasn't a side to it.

00:30:46.000 It's like, what were the soldiers listening to in Vietnam?

00:30:49.000 Jimi Hendrix.

00:30:51.000 We were all listening to the same stuff no matter where you were.

00:30:55.000 No matter where you were, you were listening to the same music, no matter what your politic thing was.

00:31:00.000 The music sort of told a story and sort of suggested a possibility.

00:31:06.000 And the music was so much different than the music of the past.

00:31:10.000 Yeah.

00:31:11.000 And it was like, you go from 1959 to 1969, you're dealing with a completely different dimension.

00:31:17.000 And it's because it was all psychedelically inspired.

00:31:19.000 And that was another thing that the Nixon administration did.

00:31:22.000 They passed that sweeping Schedule I Psychedelics Act, made everything illegal, and just threw water on the whole movement.

00:31:30.000 And then everything changes.

00:31:31.000 Then you have the 70s, music starts getting weird.

00:31:33.000 The 80s, it completely falls apart. 0.99

00:31:35.000 Cars start looking like shit. 1.00

00:31:37.000 People start dressing stupid. 1.00

00:31:38.000 Now you're talking. 1.00

00:31:40.000 It's a real language.

00:31:43.000 I never tied it all to that sweeping thing, but when you revisit that, you realize how much harm that did, that kind of lawmaking.

00:31:58.000 Let's all agree that the cars don't look as good as they used to.

00:32:01.000 Who are those people that say they're the really good problem solvers?

00:32:05.000 I see them every once in a while, and they go like, how does he do it?

00:32:08.000 He says, well, first I say, what can we agree on?

00:32:10.000 Okay, so we can agree that cars don't look so good no more.

00:32:16.000 Well, they look good now.

00:32:16.000 It used to be that every single year, every single car looked different.

00:32:21.000 Yes.

00:32:21.000 Than it looked the year before.

00:32:23.000 Yes.

00:32:23.000 And that's mind-boggling nowadays to think about that.

00:32:26.000 And even now, the cars are made of, I don't know, plastic?

00:32:29.000 What are they made of? 1.00

00:32:30.000 Yeah, they're made of shit. 1.00

00:32:31.000 They're made of nothing. 1.00

00:32:32.000 They're not made of steel.

00:32:33.000 They did it with steel back then.

00:32:34.000 Right.

00:32:35.000 And now they're made with, I don't know, some sort of carbon something or other.

00:32:39.000 And you would think they would be able to, like, I don't know what a 3D printer is.

00:32:43.000 I have to confess.

00:32:46.000 I have no idea.

00:32:47.000 We actually talked about it yesterday.

00:32:48.000 I have no idea.

00:32:49.000 The biggest one's four feet long.

00:32:51.000 The biggest one is four feet long?

00:32:52.000 Yeah, that's what Elon was saying.

00:32:54.000 So can you make a table out of this?

00:32:57.000 You can't make anything bigger than four feet?

00:32:58.000 I don't think so.

00:32:59.000 I mean, maybe there's some super...

00:33:01.000 Car parts now are...

00:33:02.000 I mean, if you have a car, if you have a fender bender, there's like seven parts that you have to replace now.

00:33:07.000 Panels and panels and panels.

00:33:09.000 But that's also because they're better structurally to withstand impact.

00:33:12.000 They have these crumpled layers and they're designed in a way that makes it safer for you.

00:33:16.000 They're a lot safer than old cars. 0.97

00:33:18.000 I fucking love old cars. 0.98

00:33:19.000 And the sound systems are better. 0.99

00:33:21.000 Yeah.

00:33:21.000 But new cars look great.

00:33:23.000 New cars are awesome.

00:33:25.000 There's a lot of really good-looking American cars, a lot of really good-looking German cars.

00:33:29.000 What happened in the 1970s and the 1980s was a drop-off, a significant drop-off from the 60s.

00:33:35.000 The 60s cars were some of the best-looking cars.

00:33:37.000 I think a lot of that had to do with just the way creativity was...

00:34:03.000 Encouraged in the 1960s.

00:34:05.000 It was more free-flowing.

00:34:06.000 The music was completely radical and different.

00:34:09.000 Politics was radical and different.

00:34:11.000 And that's why they passed those laws.

00:34:13.000 They passed those laws to stop the anti-war movement.

00:34:16.000 It was the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement.

00:34:18.000 And the guy they put in charge was a man who had absolutely no qualifications.

00:34:21.000 Who had no qualifications to do any of it.

00:34:24.000 No.

00:34:26.000 I've got someone, a friend, that's been trying to get me to...

00:34:30.000 Do a movie about it, but the person responsible for making all the laws was someone who had absolutely no background in any of the fields, no knowledge whatsoever, just a total huckster that got himself out in front.

00:34:43.000 Well, they probably had a mandate.

00:34:44.000 They gave him a mandate.

00:34:45.000 This is what we're going to do.

00:34:46.000 This is the plan. 0.99

00:34:47.000 We're going to lock up all these hippies. 1.00

00:34:49.000 I'll carry the flag. 0.97

00:34:50.000 I'll carry the flag, whatever it is.

00:34:52.000 I'll run up the hill.

00:34:53.000 Exactly.

00:34:54.000 Yeah.

00:34:57.000 Well, I heard...

00:35:00.000 That Buick is going to make a car, and this could be wrong, but I heard they're going to make a car next year that's not going to look like any car, ever.

00:35:09.000 It's going to be like a brand new, whatever the hell, 25 or 26 Buick.

00:35:15.000 And it's not going to look like the 24 or 5. It's going to look like its own individual thing, that they're going to try to re...

00:35:26.000 To recommence the idea of making a new car every year.

00:35:29.000 You didn't hear this?

00:35:30.000 No, like a completely new kind of model?

00:35:32.000 Yeah, like the idea that you would make a car that didn't look like every...

00:35:35.000 I mean, you can look at a car and go like, that's a Volvo, but that part of it looks like a Mercedes.

00:35:41.000 That part of it looks like an Infiniti.

00:35:43.000 That part of the car looks like, you know, a Toyota.

00:35:48.000 You've heard probably the story about the...

00:35:50.000 What's that car called?

00:35:51.000 The Ford that's got a...

00:35:53.000 Animal name?

00:35:54.000 Mustang?

00:35:55.000 Taurus.

00:35:56.000 Taurus.

00:35:56.000 Now, there's a story.

00:35:57.000 Now, it could be apocryphal.

00:35:58.000 That the Ford Taurus.

00:36:00.000 You never heard this one?

00:36:01.000 No.

00:36:01.000 I thought you were like this guy.

00:36:03.000 Taurus is a piece of shit. 1.00

00:36:04.000 I don't care about Tauruses. 1.00

00:36:05.000 Well, the Taurus, yeah.

00:36:06.000 The Taurus is like, it's not the most beautiful car in the world.

00:36:10.000 But it was a huge seller for Ford.

00:36:13.000 They sold a lot of them.

00:36:14.000 And the story is that these guys at Ford designed a car and they took, The rear quarter panel from this automobile, the fender from this, the back fender from this, the rear windows from this, and just did a composite of all these different cars. 0.98

00:36:34.000 And the car was, this car's bullshit. 0.91

00:36:37.000 And we'll call it the Taurus. 0.99

00:36:39.000 And they presented it to Ford, who went, we love it.

00:36:43.000 And then proceeded to sell hundreds of thousands of them.

00:36:47.000 And this is a story.

00:36:50.000 Where's your phone calls here?

00:36:51.000 Faye, caller number one, you heard about this?

00:36:53.000 No one's ever heard this story?

00:36:54.000 You've never heard this one?

00:36:55.000 No, I've never heard that, no.

00:36:56.000 But I believe it.

00:36:57.000 It makes sense. 0.99

00:36:58.000 You can believe it if you look at the cars that are built now, that they are absolutely like, look at that damn Volvo. 0.94

00:37:04.000 It looks exactly like a three-year-ago Mercedes or something like that. 0.98

00:37:08.000 They just really just steal.

00:37:11.000 Jamie, pull up 2024 Shelby Mustang Super Snake.

00:37:17.000 So there's still some cars.

00:37:19.000 Roll it in here.

00:37:20.000 Just check out what this looks like.

00:37:22.000 There's cars that they make today that are unique-looking and look badass.

00:37:26.000 I wish I'd bought a Shelby back when I first had a paycheck.

00:37:29.000 Oh, yeah.

00:37:29.000 They're such beautiful cars.

00:37:30.000 Look at that.

00:37:32.000 Come on.

00:37:32.000 Well, that's kind of funny.

00:37:33.000 When I first look at it, it looks a little Chevy to me.

00:37:35.000 It does a little bit.

00:37:37.000 It could be like a Camaro.

00:37:38.000 I mean, look at that.

00:37:38.000 That looks like Chevy.

00:37:40.000 I mean, that's a beautiful car, though, right?

00:37:43.000 Well...

00:37:44.000 You know, you could photograph either of us from a certain angle.

00:37:47.000 No, no, I've seen that one in real life.

00:37:49.000 That's a beautiful car.

00:37:50.000 That's a beautiful car.

00:37:52.000 That's better.

00:37:53.000 Oh, and it sounds amazing.

00:37:55.000 But I'd hate to hit anything with that thing.

00:37:56.000 In what way?

00:37:57.000 I would hate to bump into anything.

00:37:59.000 It looks like I'd have to... 0.99

00:38:00.000 Yeah, you'd have to replace a lot of shit. 1.00

00:38:02.000 That's true. 0.99

00:38:03.000 Can you pick up that picture there?

00:38:06.000 What's the rear look like?

00:38:07.000 Oh, it's got a spoiler?

00:38:08.000 Yeah.

00:38:09.000 Come on.

00:38:10.000 How do you feel about spoilers? 0.99

00:38:12.000 Fucking badass. 0.97

00:38:13.000 That thing looks awesome. 0.99

00:38:15.000 That looks amazing.

00:38:17.000 Well, I think the original one is like the super coolest car in all.

00:38:21.000 Oh, yeah.

00:38:21.000 Oh, no doubt.

00:38:23.000 I mean, if you go back and look at, like, pull up a Boss 429, 1969, Boss 429. This, to me, is the pinnacle of muscle car design, is the Boss 429. Like, that is just spectacular.

00:38:36.000 That's pretty good.

00:38:37.000 Look at that.

00:38:39.000 Well, that's pretty close.

00:38:40.000 Well, that's got that scoop in the front.

00:38:42.000 That's pretty close to the bullet year, right?

00:38:44.000 The bullet card?

00:38:45.000 68. Yeah, bullet was 68. I actually have a recreation of that.

00:38:48.000 I was watching it.

00:38:50.000 They found the original bullet card.

00:38:52.000 Did you know that?

00:38:52.000 Yes.

00:38:52.000 I was reading about that this week.

00:38:54.000 It was on TV last week.

00:38:56.000 And I've watched it a lot of times, that movie, because I think Steve McQueen's pretty damn good.

00:39:03.000 But when you watch the movie, it's...

00:39:06.000 It's obviously the roaring through San Francisco and all that sort of stuff it's famous for.

00:39:11.000 And then there's the ending where there's – the sort of story ends with kind of a flaming crash.

00:39:16.000 It's kind of – not really kind of an ending in a way.

00:39:19.000 But watching it this particular time, it was all the moments in between all that that really make the movie.

00:39:27.000 Yes.

00:39:28.000 All the quiet in between where he's in the grocery store, he's with the groceries, the mailbox.

00:39:33.000 He's seeing these people and these people.

00:39:35.000 And he has this very quiet inner self that's dealing with people very respectfully.

00:39:42.000 And his blood pressure only moves, the needle only starts to move when he gets with the bad guy, Chalmers, who's obviously a fraud of some sort.

00:39:52.000 And he's got him like, you see him like, not just as a...

00:39:58.000 with like a person he knows is trying to use him.

00:40:01.000 And just watching that part of the performance and that part of the story was much more interesting.

00:40:08.000 The first time I saw all that as its own weave through it. - Yes. - That the car stuff had very little to do with what I was getting from the people.

00:40:18.000 The car stuff was nothing.

00:40:19.000 And his boss was a great actor, Simon Oakland, I think his name is.

00:40:24.000 He was great as his boss who said, I'm going to hold this till Monday morning.

00:40:29.000 You know, that kind of guy.

00:40:31.000 There was some great acting in that.

00:40:33.000 It's a really beautiful American movie like that.

00:40:37.000 I'm so glad you brought that up because it's one of the things that I love about that movie and Le Mans, another great Steve McQueen movie, is that he had these Moments, and you could do that in a movie back then, where no one was talking for minutes and minutes at a time.

00:40:53.000 There's a lot of quiet in Bullet.

00:40:55.000 A lot of quiet music.

00:40:57.000 It's just, you're taking in this story, but it's very compelling.

00:41:01.000 And sometimes there's not even any music, right?

00:41:04.000 Like in Le Mans, the whole first part of it, there's no talking at all for quite a while.

00:41:10.000 It's just like you're getting the sounds and the feeling of being this race car driver and he's driving his 911 down this country road.

00:41:19.000 Yeah, and it engrosses you in a different way.

00:41:22.000 It pulls you into the story.

00:41:25.000 Is that bullet where he's writing...

00:41:26.000 What movie is he driving like a dune buggy?

00:41:29.000 Is that bullet too?

00:41:31.000 No, that's the other one.

00:41:32.000 The one in Boston.

00:41:34.000 That's a pretty good movie, too.

00:41:36.000 Which one's that?

00:41:37.000 Oh, come on. 0.87

00:41:38.000 They remade it.

00:41:40.000 Thomas Crown Affair?

00:41:42.000 Thomas Crown Affair.

00:41:43.000 Yeah.

00:41:44.000 And obviously he's having time.

00:41:45.000 You know, it's like, how about we shoot some stuff in a dune buggy?

00:41:48.000 And basically they had like a whole day.

00:41:49.000 Yeah, this.

00:41:50.000 Yeah.

00:41:52.000 And he's having a time.

00:41:55.000 And meanwhile, he's got Faye Dunaway in there going, I hope that's Faye Dunaway anyway.

00:42:01.000 Roaring around.

00:42:02.000 And he could really drive, right?

00:42:04.000 Oh, yeah.

00:42:05.000 Like, really drive. 0.99

00:42:06.000 Like, you could really flip one of these fucking things if you're driving like him and you don't know what you're doing. 0.99

00:42:10.000 For sure. 0.99

00:42:12.000 Yeah, he's going sideways.

00:42:13.000 And she is having the time of her life.

00:42:16.000 Look at that.

00:42:17.000 Spinning it out in the water.

00:42:18.000 With a movie star who doesn't even have a seatbelt on, probably.

00:42:22.000 No, they didn't have seatbelts back then.

00:42:23.000 Jesus Christ.

00:42:25.000 Well, she might have a seatbelt. 1.00

00:42:26.000 She looks like she's belted.

00:42:27.000 But that was cool.

00:42:28.000 He was like the archetypal movie star.

00:42:31.000 He was a movie star.

00:42:33.000 That guy was a movie star.

00:42:35.000 There was something about him that was compelling.

00:42:38.000 He lived his life in this sort of wild, renegade way and drove race cars and he was a man's man.

00:42:44.000 And when you saw him in a movie, you believed it.

00:42:46.000 Well, I've been watching...

00:42:48.000 I've come to be watching all the old cowboy shows on a satellite.

00:42:53.000 I watch all the old cowboy shows.

00:42:55.000 And Wanted Dead or Alive was always a super cool show.

00:42:58.000 And I've been watching it just to say, what the hell is he up to?

00:43:02.000 Man, he is just...

00:43:03.000 No one was getting away with that.

00:43:05.000 No one was doing what he was doing, which was so small and so slight.

00:43:10.000 He was really preparing himself to be a movie actor.

00:43:13.000 Because his performances...

00:43:16.000 He's so controlled.

00:43:18.000 He's so in his skin.

00:43:20.000 And he's always got a piece of business to do.

00:43:23.000 He always had a piece of business to do.

00:43:25.000 Like something to do.

00:43:27.000 Like the way he strapped on his goofy sawed-off rifle and stuff.

00:43:32.000 You keep thinking it's a sawed-off shotgun.

00:43:34.000 It's a sawed-off rifle.

00:43:37.000 All his moves were very little.

00:43:40.000 His face gave very, very little away.

00:43:44.000 He would pout and do a half pout.

00:43:46.000 Kind of stuff.

00:43:47.000 And it's just fun to watch him see how little he could do and get it done.

00:43:51.000 Yeah.

00:43:51.000 Get it across.

00:43:52.000 I like that about him.

00:43:54.000 But he always had, like, he kind of challenged himself to do something physical.

00:43:59.000 Like, so if he'd be talking to you, he'd have just, even that, even something like that to be like, you know, come in here.

00:44:06.000 You know, he would just, the way he did it was a guy who had a real natural way with his body.

00:44:11.000 It was fun.

00:44:12.000 Yeah, well, he would just draw you in.

00:44:15.000 In all of his films.

00:44:17.000 In a way, it was just different.

00:44:20.000 It was a different presence on screen.

00:44:22.000 There's that guy.

00:44:23.000 Sawed-off rifle.

00:44:24.000 See, it's a sawed-off.

00:44:25.000 It's not a shotgun.

00:44:26.000 It's a rifle.

00:44:31.000 See that little shtick?

00:44:32.000 He's got it so it locks in and then swings back.

00:44:35.000 So he could actually, if he wished to, you better hope he better not wish to against you two.

00:44:40.000 He could just sort of swivel it and fire it while it's still attached to his waistband.

00:44:45.000 I never saw this show.

00:44:46.000 I didn't even know it existed.

00:44:47.000 You never saw this show?

00:44:47.000 I didn't know it existed until right now.

00:44:49.000 What kind of a citizen are you?

00:44:51.000 I'm a little younger.

00:44:52.000 That's all it is.

00:44:53.000 That's all it is.

00:44:54.000 Well, you can find this.

00:44:55.000 There's these new cowboy shows channels.

00:44:58.000 There's like four channels.

00:45:01.000 I have DirecTV, and so you can go and watch.

00:45:04.000 God, that's a famous guy.

00:45:06.000 Oh, God.

00:45:07.000 Oh, who's that?

00:45:08.000 Oh.

00:45:09.000 Oh, that's killing me.

00:45:10.000 I know who this guy is.

00:45:13.000 Well, I don't know who he is, but I recognize him.

00:45:17.000 Help me, somebody.

00:45:18.000 Who's that guy?

00:45:18.000 Jamie will find it.

00:45:22.000 Anyway, there's a few channels.

00:45:23.000 There's one called INSP. There's also the Cowboy Channel.

00:45:28.000 There's also channel 364, 304, 323, 81. Is this DirecTV?

00:45:34.000 What is this?

00:45:34.000 DirecTV.

00:45:35.000 And they're all, and you can, and I just go through going like, what have I got to find?

00:45:38.000 So I can see the rifleman.

00:45:40.000 Oh, yeah.

00:45:41.000 I remember that.

00:45:42.000 That was a great show.

00:45:43.000 Also a rifle guy, but he had a full-length rifle.

00:45:45.000 And that was Chuck Connors, who once upon a time was a Chicago Cub.

00:45:49.000 He was a baseball player.

00:45:49.000 Oh, really?

00:45:50.000 Yes.

00:45:50.000 And allegedly did some art films.

00:45:53.000 But also, he was good, too.

00:45:56.000 Chuck Connors was good.

00:45:59.000 The Lone Ranger.

00:46:01.000 Oh, yeah.

00:46:02.000 Sure.

00:46:02.000 And that was...

00:46:03.000 God, come on.

00:46:05.000 Why can't I not remember his name?

00:46:06.000 But there were some Lone Rangers.

00:46:09.000 The Lone Ranger came on and then the guy...

00:46:11.000 I didn't realize it because there's some Lone Rangers where it's not our Lone Ranger being the Lone Ranger.

00:46:17.000 And who wasn't as good as our Lone Ranger.

00:46:19.000 And then our Lone Ranger comes back.

00:46:21.000 And it turns out, I finally figured out that he sort of went on strike.

00:46:24.000 He said he wanted a contract raise after the first season or something.

00:46:27.000 And they, like, said no.

00:46:28.000 They went ahead and made a season with this other guy.

00:46:30.000 And people went, when are you going to kill off the Lone Ranger?

00:46:35.000 No offense to that man's family.

00:46:37.000 I'm sure it paid for somebody's college.

00:46:39.000 But, oh, come on.

00:46:43.000 I almost had it.

00:46:44.000 The guy's name?

00:46:45.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:46.000 Jamie will find it.

00:46:48.000 Jamie, you've got a lot on your plate.

00:46:50.000 I switched over to the Lone Ranger.

00:46:53.000 I was looking at people that were listed here.

00:46:54.000 I'll give you this one that are a lot.

00:46:55.000 There's a few people listed here as guest cards.

00:46:57.000 I actually saw him someplace.

00:46:58.000 Is he one of these names?

00:47:00.000 Michael Landon?

00:47:00.000 Landon, Warren Oates.

00:47:01.000 Warren Oates.

00:47:02.000 It's definitely not Coburn.

00:47:04.000 No, it's none of those guys.

00:47:06.000 Lon Chaney's misspelled.

00:47:07.000 But it's not those guys.

00:47:10.000 Coburn's in there twice.

00:47:11.000 Lone Ranger here.

00:47:15.000 One of these guys, maybe?

00:47:16.000 No.

00:47:17.000 See, it started on radio first.

00:47:19.000 That's what you're getting.

00:47:20.000 You're pulling up radio.

00:47:21.000 That's how fair back you're going.

00:47:23.000 Clayton Moore?

00:47:24.000 Clayton Moore, thank you.

00:47:25.000 I saw Clayton Moore.

00:47:26.000 He came to a jewel food store near us.

00:47:28.000 The Lone Ranger was going to appear.

00:47:30.000 But he was not allowed to wear the mask for, like, contraction, whatever the hell.

00:47:34.000 So there he was, and I'm like...

00:47:37.000 Mom, that's not the Lone Ranger.

00:47:39.000 You know, whatever the hell it was.

00:47:40.000 It was funny to see Clayton wear without a mask on.

00:47:43.000 Imagine a contract saying you can't do personal appearances.

00:47:46.000 Well, no, it was like he was, the Lone Ranger was copyrighted, you know, nine days from Sundays, you know, so he could go and be right on an elephant.

00:47:53.000 I think I may have seen him riding on an elephant in a parade once, but also without the mask on.

00:48:00.000 But I should talk about movies because I'm supposed to be talking about movies.

00:48:03.000 Yes.

00:48:04.000 Since we started talking about movies.

00:48:07.000 Tell me about your movie.

00:48:09.000 I got two movies.

00:48:11.000 I have three movies.

00:48:12.000 I'll work backwards from the one which is least, which is farthest away.

00:48:17.000 I did one with Wes Anderson called The Phoenician something.

00:48:21.000 That's the title.

00:48:22.000 You know, I'm sorry, Wes.

00:48:24.000 The Phoenician, you know what it is?

00:48:27.000 The Phoenician Scheme.

00:48:29.000 And I have a lot of trouble with names nowadays.

00:48:32.000 But the guy who did the set design, can you figure that out?

00:48:35.000 This guy is the most famous.

00:48:37.000 He's the best there is now.

00:48:39.000 These are the most beautiful sets I've ever seen in any movie.

00:48:43.000 Come on.

00:48:44.000 It's coming.

00:48:46.000 I'm sorry, everybody, but I just haven't been getting enough sleep.

00:48:50.000 No worries.

00:48:51.000 Anyway, that's a great movie.

00:48:53.000 We shot that in Berlin, and there's great people in it.

00:48:55.000 It's got, I want to say Toshiro Mifune, but it's not.

00:49:01.000 It's the guy who played Che.

00:49:02.000 Come on.

00:49:05.000 Come on, help me out here. 0.66

00:49:07.000 All right, you look it up, Jim.

00:49:08.000 You get back to us with this.

00:49:09.000 Anyway, that movie's coming in a bit.

00:49:12.000 Who?

00:49:12.000 Benito.

00:49:13.000 Yeah.

00:49:15.000 Benito's really good.

00:49:16.000 He's really good and he's really cool.

00:49:18.000 And Michael Cera, right?

00:49:21.000 Is he the third?

00:49:22.000 Did you say Benicio?

00:49:24.000 Benicio Del Toro.

00:49:25.000 Benicio Del Toro.

00:49:25.000 Yeah.

00:49:26.000 I said Benito.

00:49:27.000 You said Benito.

00:49:28.000 He's great.

00:49:29.000 Fear and Loathing as well.

00:49:30.000 He was awesome in that.

00:49:31.000 He's great.

00:49:32.000 He's great in everything.

00:49:34.000 We get on good.

00:49:36.000 And then the daughter, whose name is Kate Winslet, who is really wonderful.

00:49:44.000 So the three of them are extraordinary in the movie together.

00:49:48.000 And her name is like Cupid or Eve or something that's crazy.

00:49:51.000 What's it about?

00:49:52.000 I have no idea.

00:49:54.000 Huh?

00:49:54.000 What's her name?

00:49:55.000 Mia.

00:49:56.000 Thank you.

00:49:56.000 See, I told you.

00:49:57.000 Cupid.

00:49:58.000 Something. 1.00

00:49:59.000 Mia.

00:50:00.000 I have no idea what it's about.

00:50:02.000 You're going to have to pay the money.

00:50:03.000 There she is, right there.

00:50:04.000 A dark tale of espionage followed a strained father-daughter relationship with a family business.

00:50:10.000 Yeah, Willem's got a good part, but it's really those...

00:50:13.000 Keep going, keep going.

00:50:14.000 Benedict Cumberbatch?

00:50:15.000 Yeah, they're all swell and fine.

00:50:17.000 Michael Cera.

00:50:17.000 Michael Cera is huge in it.

00:50:19.000 He's fantastic.

00:50:20.000 Yeah, he's a really good guy.

00:50:22.000 Michael Cera, Benicio, and Mia are really the muscles.

00:50:25.000 Brian Cranston?

00:50:26.000 And they're great.

00:50:27.000 Anyway, that's going to be...

00:50:28.000 Really good.

00:50:29.000 All his movies are like they are.

00:50:32.000 They're all great.

00:50:33.000 That one's going to be very good.

00:50:35.000 That one's going to be funny, too.

00:50:37.000 Then I made a movie called The Friend, which stars Naomi Watts and a dog.

00:50:47.000 There's a huge dog.

00:50:48.000 Are you a dog guy?

00:50:49.000 I love dogs.

00:50:50.000 Okay, so there's a massive, really big dog.

00:50:54.000 I mean, it's pretty much as big.

00:50:57.000 There it is.

00:50:58.000 There's Naomi.

00:50:59.000 And there's the dog.

00:51:00.000 The dog is that big.

00:51:03.000 See how big it is? 1.00

00:51:04.000 It's fucking huge. 0.99

00:51:04.000 Yeah, that's the words for it. 0.99

00:51:06.000 Yeah, that's a Great Dane.

00:51:08.000 Isn't it?

00:51:08.000 It's an amazing dog.

00:51:10.000 And the script is great.

00:51:12.000 It's from a book written by a woman named Sigrid Nunez.

00:51:16.000 And can you pop up on the titles there, maybe?

00:51:20.000 No, the other thing.

00:51:22.000 Yeah, these guys directed it.

00:51:24.000 These guys.

00:51:25.000 Scott McGehee and David Siegel.

00:51:27.000 And they wrote the script from this book.

00:51:31.000 And it's a great script.

00:51:32.000 Nobody can hear you over there, unfortunately.

00:51:34.000 Nobody can hear you over there.

00:51:36.000 We're going to have to come back.

00:51:39.000 Scott McGehee and David Siegel wrote the script and directed it.

00:51:43.000 And they're great.

00:51:44.000 I love those guys.

00:51:45.000 They made a few good movies.

00:51:46.000 And this one's really good.

00:51:48.000 And this Sigrid Nunez is kind of a big deal author.

00:51:51.000 People know who she is that read lots of books.

00:51:53.000 And what is The Friend?

00:51:54.000 What is it about?

00:51:55.000 The friend.

00:51:55.000 Well, yeah, there you go.

00:51:57.000 So that's the question.

00:51:58.000 Well, that's sort of the puzzle, a little bit of the puzzle of it.

00:52:01.000 So who is the friend?

00:52:02.000 Is the friend the friend or is the friend the dog?

00:52:05.000 The dog represents something.

00:52:08.000 So it's a little deeper than a lot of the ones we get to.

00:52:12.000 But it's really good.

00:52:14.000 It's really good.

00:52:15.000 I like it.

00:52:15.000 It's been to film festivals and people laugh and cry and the whole thing.

00:52:20.000 How do you pick?

00:52:21.000 Things to do now.

00:52:22.000 Like, you've done so much.

00:52:24.000 You've had this insane career.

00:52:26.000 I'm going to tell you that, but let me finish the last one, because today...

00:52:29.000 Now, is your show live?

00:52:30.000 No.

00:52:31.000 No, it comes out tomorrow.

00:52:32.000 Tomorrow.

00:52:33.000 Okay, so that's why I wanted to ask, because this movie, the third movie, opens today, which is yesterday, and it's called Riff Raff, and this is a movie that you have to see.

00:52:46.000 You have to see this.

00:52:47.000 This is really something.

00:52:48.000 This is a movie you should take.

00:52:50.000 Ten of your friends, too, and go see Riff Raff.

00:52:53.000 It will be, I guarantee you, this one's a party.

00:52:57.000 Tell me what it is.

00:52:58.000 Um, well, there's a trailer for it up there.

00:53:01.000 See, there's...

00:53:01.000 Let's play the trailer.

00:53:02.000 Okay, you can do it.

00:53:03.000 Put the headphones on.

00:53:04.000 We'll play the trailer.

00:53:05.000 I wasn't...

00:53:06.000 There you go.

00:53:07.000 Slap some headphones on.

00:53:09.000 Oh.

00:53:10.000 No Slim Jims. 0.82

00:53:11.000 Past two hours, you've been passing gas like a very sick infant.

00:53:14.000 I gotta breathe all day. 0.93

00:53:16.000 Sorry, Lefty.

00:53:17.000 I had a lot of coffee, okay?

00:53:18.000 Sorry.

00:53:19.000 And then you use my name?

00:53:21.000 Jesus Christ, Lonnie.

00:53:24.000 He just said my name.

00:53:26.000 You catch our names by any chance?

00:53:28.000 Yeah, he called you Lefty and you called him Lonnie.

00:53:33.000 Well, I overreacted.

00:53:35.000 Okay.

00:53:39.000 Son, we gotta talk about Lefty.

00:53:42.000 What did you do?

00:53:46.000 Logan!

00:53:47.000 Logan! 1.00

00:53:49.000 You killed his son. 1.00

00:53:50.000 You're gonna kill us. 1.00

00:53:54.000 What are you doing? 1.00

00:53:55.000 I get horny when I'm scared. 0.97

00:53:56.000 I'm married. 0.97

00:53:56.000 Who cares? 0.97

00:53:57.000 It's just us and the shitty wildlife, you know? 0.99

00:54:01.000 This is our son. 0.98

00:54:04.000 We're too young to be grandparents.

00:54:06.000 All because your son couldn't pull out in time.

00:54:09.000 We've got house guests. 0.99

00:54:12.000 I would categorize these as a must kill. 0.99

00:54:17.000 What are we? 0.98

00:54:18.000 Family.

00:54:19.000 Oh my god.

00:54:21.000 Can I get you anything?

00:54:22.000 I'd sell my left tit for an Advil and a cup of coffee.

00:54:26.000 You said what?

00:54:32.000 Who was first?

00:54:33.000 There was this food incident.

00:54:34.000 Rocco put pubes in my wonton soup.

00:54:37.000 If it's okay, I would just really like to torture him a little bit if it's okay.

00:54:42.000 Shouldn't have done that, Rocco. 0.93

00:54:44.000 Yeah, knock yourself out.

00:54:45.000 Oh my god. 0.99

00:54:47.000 We're all gonna die.

00:54:52.000 You don't have all night? 0.99

00:54:56.000 Wait for me before you two start hitting each other. 1.00

00:55:03.000 You know, once you start killing it, it sort of becomes your de facto solution for every problem.

00:55:08.000 What? 0.84

00:55:12.000 Get off of me.

00:55:14.000 I'm not gonna.

00:55:15.000 I'm not gonna, Ruth.

00:55:17.000 What's that?

00:55:18.000 Shame!

00:55:19.000 We're gonna put something that hard to waste.

00:55:24.000 Huh?

00:55:27.000 That looks fun.

00:55:28.000 Uh, yeah.

00:55:30.000 Well...

00:55:30.000 Yeah, that's...

00:55:32.000 They gave you too much, as far as I'm concerned, but, um...

00:55:35.000 They always do, though, right?

00:55:36.000 I don't know.

00:55:37.000 Sometimes...

00:55:38.000 Not always.

00:55:39.000 But it's...

00:55:40.000 It's common.

00:55:41.000 It's kind of nicer to see as a surprise, so...

00:55:44.000 Oh, should we not have seen the trailer?

00:55:45.000 It's okay.

00:55:46.000 I mean, what are you going to do?

00:55:47.000 But some people will think, I must see that.

00:55:50.000 But I guarantee you this movie is really, really funny.

00:55:53.000 I love a movie where I don't get to see the trailer.

00:55:55.000 I really do.

00:55:56.000 I have no idea how it goes down.

00:55:58.000 Yeah, you could not show the trailer.

00:56:00.000 That would be okay.

00:56:01.000 I saw one that was just the first part of that.

00:56:05.000 And I was hoping that was what it was.

00:56:09.000 This kind of makes it seem like a little bit...

00:56:16.000 You know, it's just a little bit too much stuff in it.

00:56:18.000 A little bit too much stuff for me.

00:56:20.000 Maybe.

00:56:22.000 Let's think about it.

00:56:23.000 But anyway, it's good.

00:56:25.000 It looks great.

00:56:26.000 Yeah.

00:56:27.000 So Jennifer Coolidge has got some unbelievable things to say in the movie. 1.00

00:56:31.000 She's got some amazing things to say.

00:56:33.000 And Ed Harris is really, really good in the movie.

00:56:36.000 Pete Davidson, who I had no idea about.

00:56:38.000 We were sidekicks in the movie, and we had a very good time.

00:56:42.000 Did some good stuff.

00:56:44.000 This Louis Pullman, who's Bill Pullman's son, is really good.

00:56:49.000 I mean, and Emanuela, she got an Italian, Pustakini, like that.

00:56:55.000 She's just wonderful and beautiful.

00:56:58.000 And Gabby Union, I call her Gabby, Gabrielle Union.

00:57:03.000 And Miles, whose last name I can't remember because I just want to call him Miles Davis, but that little kid in there.

00:57:10.000 He plays the voice of the Electric Junior Bunny show or something like that on Nickelodeon or something like that.

00:57:20.000 He does weird cartoon voices.

00:57:22.000 Oh, yeah?

00:57:23.000 So, if you watch a lot of Nickelodeon cartoons...

00:57:26.000 I don't anymore.

00:57:26.000 My kids are teenagers now.

00:57:28.000 Oh, really?

00:57:29.000 I used to.

00:57:30.000 I used to.

00:57:31.000 I could tell you all about Ni Hao Kai Lan.

00:57:34.000 Oh, see, I don't know that one.

00:57:36.000 I guess I... I guess Spongebob.

00:57:38.000 My brother plays the Flying Dutchman on Spongebob.

00:57:42.000 Oh, wow.

00:57:43.000 So I watched a lot of that, but that's about it.

00:57:45.000 I don't know.

00:57:46.000 I'm way behind.

00:57:47.000 How do you decide what projects to pick?

00:57:50.000 It's really just what, well, there are certain people, like with people that I've worked with before, there's some, like Wes Anderson is one, and Jim Jarmusch.

00:58:03.000 And Sofia Coppola are others.

00:58:06.000 And those three people call and say, I got something.

00:58:08.000 I just say, okay, when?

00:58:10.000 Because I know that they're...

00:58:13.000 I know they know what I can do, and they know they look out for me, and they treat people well.

00:58:22.000 I love them as people, and I love them as artists.

00:58:24.000 So that's just a thing.

00:58:26.000 But the other ones are more like...

00:58:32.000 You have to read the script, because people, you know, the script is pretty much, if the script's not there, I mean, you know, I can always help improve a script, but if the basic thing isn't there, it's like, I was scratching at one the other day, and I'm writing, and I'm going, what the hell am I doing this for?

00:58:50.000 This is just terrible.

00:58:51.000 Every page is like, so, but if it's not good, and usually, you know, you know in like five pages.

00:59:00.000 Whether or not to even continue reading the script at all.

00:59:05.000 So a lot of it's based on relationships and people that you trust and know.

00:59:09.000 Those are very few.

00:59:10.000 There's only very few people that I have those kinds of relationships with.

00:59:14.000 And I've done multiple jobs with them.

00:59:17.000 And they kill every time.

00:59:18.000 They're good. 0.98

00:59:19.000 They're really good.

00:59:21.000 So when they call, it's like, you don't have to waste my time telling me the story.

00:59:25.000 Just send me the thing, you know?

00:59:26.000 Right.

00:59:27.000 You don't have to waste any time I'm in.

00:59:28.000 You can count on me.

00:59:29.000 That's awesome.

00:59:30.000 So that's it.

00:59:30.000 I love that.

00:59:31.000 Yeah, I do too.

00:59:32.000 God, that's such a great feeling when you trust someone that much and you're so enthusiastic about working with them.

00:59:38.000 Yeah, it means, like, great.

00:59:39.000 And, you know, like, people make the living, the making of a movie part of their living, you know?

00:59:45.000 Like, Wes is probably the...

00:59:47.000 The most extreme example in that, like, we all live in a quasi-dormitory.

00:59:53.000 You know, we take over a small hotel in some city, and all the actors and, like, the key crew live in the hotel.

01:00:02.000 And you come down for breakfast in the morning, and people pad down in their slippers and their jammies, and they have coffee and stuff, and they look at the newspaper and say, what are we doing today?

01:00:12.000 And then they, like, pad back up the stairs and get on their clothes, and they go to work.

01:00:16.000 That's cool.

01:00:17.000 It's really nice.

01:00:18.000 It really is like what you always thought it would be.

01:00:21.000 Like in the old days, like, what if we all lived in a dorm and we were just being funny all day?

01:00:25.000 You know, like that.

01:00:26.000 Yeah.

01:00:27.000 What was it like working on Kingpin?

01:00:30.000 Well, those guys have more fun making movies than anyone.

01:00:36.000 They really make it fun.

01:00:38.000 Like, I remember, like, in between shots on Kingpin, we'd be on the side of a road somewhere.

01:00:45.000 And it would be like, everybody's got to pick up a rock and we got to throw it at that telephone pole.

01:00:51.000 You know, who's going to hit the telephone pole with a rock?

01:00:53.000 So we would sit there and like, I don't know, a dollar, ten dollars, a hundred dollars, whatever it was, we're throwing and somebody's got to hit the rock.

01:01:00.000 You know, and then people like pull out cash and pay.

01:01:03.000 Because it's just like, we just got to keep this thing going.

01:01:06.000 You know, we're not going to let the energy of this thing drop.

01:01:09.000 Just fun.

01:01:10.000 Keep the fun rolling.

01:01:11.000 Fun, yeah.

01:01:11.000 And just creativity and always...

01:01:14.000 Being loose and always being physical, always being connected, attached, not just attached but connected, and entertaining, entertaining each other, really making this fun. 0.97

01:01:28.000 God damn it, we are going to have fun or else. 0.96

01:01:31.000 If you don't have fun making a comedy, you've just made a bad movie that's not funny. 0.99

01:01:37.000 Yeah.

01:01:38.000 Well, it comes off in the film. 0.97

01:01:39.000 The film is so fucking funny. 0.98

01:01:41.000 It's so good. 0.95

01:01:42.000 And it's one of those films, like, if you tried making that today, it would be an uphill trudge.

01:01:48.000 Well, you know, and that's, like, one of those things.

01:01:51.000 They had a moment on Saturday Night Live, an in-memoriam thing.

01:01:54.000 They said, oh, I was there the week of the thing, and they said, yeah, so-and-so's working on the in-memoriam, and I'm thinking, well, who's gone?

01:02:01.000 Which reminds me.

01:02:03.000 Who's gone, you know?

01:02:05.000 And, no, it's not.

01:02:07.000 Who's passed away?

01:02:09.000 It's what we can't do anymore to be funny.

01:02:11.000 So it was like all these kinds of jokes.

01:02:14.000 And so it was just a whole clip.

01:02:15.000 I didn't even see it, but I saw a little bit of it being assembled, but it could be 40 minutes long.

01:02:21.000 Just all the sketches that people would get, like, you know, internet responses like, we're going to burn down the city in New York.

01:02:30.000 It could be hours long today.

01:02:32.000 Yeah.

01:02:33.000 Hours long.

01:02:33.000 Yeah, I'm sure it was 45. But some of the funniest things ever done, you know.

01:02:39.000 Yes.

01:02:39.000 Like Head Wound Harry, you know, which was one that not many people think about.

01:02:43.000 But how, you know, like somebody would object to a dog eating a brain wound, you know, like licking the blood coming out of someone's skeletal wound, you know.

01:02:52.000 But someone told me on the way here, a friend of mine, a musician named Mike Zito.

01:02:59.000 Who said he listens to your show.

01:03:01.000 He said that you knew Phil Hartman.

01:03:04.000 Yeah, very well.

01:03:04.000 What did you do with Phil Hartman?

01:03:06.000 Newsradio.

01:03:06.000 It was a sitcom we did together.

01:03:08.000 Okay.

01:03:08.000 I didn't really watch much in newsradio.

01:03:10.000 It was 94 to 99. I played the maintenance guy in this radio station and Phil was the lead anchor.

01:03:21.000 Did you resent him because you were doing maintenance and he was the lead anchor?

01:03:25.000 What do you mean?

01:03:25.000 No, I'm just joking.

01:03:28.000 And where was it?

01:03:28.000 Was it on CBS? NBC. NBC, of course.

01:03:31.000 Yeah.

01:03:32.000 In the 90s.

01:03:32.000 And he was the news anchor.

01:03:34.000 Yes. 0.52

01:03:34.000 Well, he's got that crazy voice, right? 0.52

01:03:35.000 Oh, he was great.

01:03:36.000 Yeah.

01:03:37.000 We became really good friends.

01:03:39.000 He was a wonderful guy.

01:03:41.000 We actually played one of his clips the other day.

01:03:42.000 We had to take it out of the show, but it was a clip from SNL that you could never play today about a doctor who decided that every child was female and he had to do operations on all of them. 0.99

01:03:54.000 And we were like, holy shit! 1.00

01:03:57.000 Holy shit! 1.00

01:03:59.000 And it's like, you know, 90% of his births involved an operation that turned into a girl. 1.00

01:04:05.000 They were all girls. 0.97

01:04:06.000 That's funny.

01:04:07.000 It was insane.

01:04:08.000 He was great.

01:04:09.000 Yeah, he was really good.

01:04:11.000 I worked with him.

01:04:12.000 I mean, I did Saturday Night Live, I guess, when he was there.

01:04:14.000 But he was in the movie we made called Quick Change.

01:04:17.000 And he was like sterling silver.

01:04:22.000 It was like every single take was just like...

01:04:26.000 Perfect.

01:04:26.000 Yeah.

01:04:27.000 And it was so much fun.

01:04:29.000 And you just go, Phil, that was so great.

01:04:30.000 And you go like, he was so kind of modestly proud of like, yeah, I felt pretty good about that too.

01:04:37.000 Yeah.

01:04:37.000 It was really nice.

01:04:38.000 He had real, real modesty.

01:04:40.000 Yes, he did.

01:04:41.000 Well, he was a guy who made it late in his career, you know, late in his life.

01:04:45.000 So he was, before he was an artist, we have one of his albums out there in the other room.

01:04:50.000 He was a musician?

01:04:51.000 No, an artist artist.

01:04:53.000 Oh, I'm sorry.

01:04:53.000 Well, he was a musician as well.

01:04:54.000 He did music as well.

01:04:55.000 Why did I say musician?

01:04:56.000 Oh, you said one of his albums.

01:04:58.000 Yes.

01:04:58.000 I was looking at vinyl today, so that's why it went into my head.

01:05:02.000 It was a cover of an album that he drew.

01:05:05.000 Oh.

01:05:05.000 Yeah.

01:05:06.000 He was an illustrator.

01:05:07.000 He was brilliant.

01:05:07.000 Like, really, really good.

01:05:09.000 Oh, I'd love to see that.

01:05:10.000 And then he was on Pee Wee's Playhouse.

01:05:12.000 Yeah.

01:05:13.000 May he rest in peace.

01:05:14.000 May he rest in peace. 0.99

01:05:15.000 That guy was fucking great, too. 0.98

01:05:17.000 And the lady, I didn't really watch a lot of Pee-wee's Playhouse, but he was a funny guy, that guy. 0.98

01:05:21.000 And his lady sidekick died this week or something.

01:05:26.000 Who was his lady sidekick? 1.00

01:05:27.000 I don't know.

01:05:28.000 On Pee-wee's Playhouse?

01:05:29.000 I'm not up to date on anything.

01:05:32.000 Oh, I didn't see that.

01:05:33.000 Who?

01:05:36.000 Yeah.

01:05:41.000 All right.

01:05:42.000 Lynn Murray Stewart.

01:05:43.000 Lynn Marie Stewart.

01:05:44.000 Lynn Marie.

01:05:45.000 See, I didn't...

01:05:46.000 Oh, I guess I'd recognize her if her face were a bigger head. 0.99

01:05:49.000 So I think Phil, because of the fact that he made it late in life, like, he was just so happy to be there.

01:05:57.000 He had perspective.

01:05:57.000 Yeah.

01:05:58.000 He had...

01:05:59.000 I mean, I think he was like 37 or something when he got SNL. You know?

01:06:04.000 So it's like...

01:06:05.000 It's the point where a lot of people start thinking, hey, this is never going to happen for me.

01:06:10.000 And then he was, you know, he was a hero.

01:06:13.000 He could do a lot of things.

01:06:17.000 He had a lot of chops.

01:06:18.000 He had a great voice and he could play straight and, you know, playing, doing comedy is the ability to play straight and he could really do it.

01:06:31.000 He could really do it.

01:06:32.000 Yeah.

01:06:33.000 Well, I miss that guy.

01:06:34.000 He was good.

01:06:35.000 He was a good guy.

01:06:37.000 Yeah, I miss him terribly.

01:06:39.000 That was a crazy one because I knew the whole family.

01:06:42.000 I knew the wife. 1.00

01:06:43.000 I knew the whole situation.

01:06:45.000 He had tried to divorce her a few times.

01:06:47.000 He tried to leave a few times and always went back.

01:06:52.000 Yeah, and that's also the guy.

01:06:53.000 He would go back and keep trying to make things work.

01:06:56.000 Yeah.

01:06:57.000 I mean, he was a very unusual guy. 0.99

01:07:01.000 And what a fucking professional. 0.98

01:07:03.000 Like, he would make me feel like I wasn't doing enough. 0.99

01:07:05.000 Like, he'd have, like, all of his scripts would have tabs for all the scenes that he was in, and then he'd have notes underneath each thing, and everything would be organized.

01:07:13.000 He had a three-ring binder he would put the script in.

01:07:15.000 Well, that's going too far.

01:07:16.000 He would hole-punch the moment he got the script.

01:07:18.000 What?

01:07:19.000 Put it in the three-ring binder.

01:07:20.000 Oh, yeah.

01:07:21.000 See, I didn't have that much faith in the scripts.

01:07:23.000 I knew they were going to change a lot from Wednesday to Friday.

01:07:26.000 If it was a big scene, I knew they would rewrite it the next two days.

01:07:30.000 No, there was a lot.

01:07:31.000 Because it's hard to unlearn.

01:07:33.000 Yes.

01:07:34.000 So I would not learn.

01:07:35.000 Yeah.

01:07:36.000 Because unlearning is really hard.

01:07:38.000 Yeah.

01:07:39.000 Like if you have a sketch that's this long and all of a sudden it's this long, you've got problems.

01:07:42.000 Have you ever met Dave Foley?

01:07:45.000 I think so.

01:07:46.000 He was one of the guys from...

01:07:47.000 Yeah, I saw him.

01:07:48.000 He goes out with my brother, Joel.

01:07:52.000 And he sings, they do like an improv thing called Whose Line Is It Anyway?

01:07:57.000 Oh, okay.

01:07:57.000 So I only met him recently.

01:07:59.000 I met him recently.

01:08:01.000 I finally saw my brother's show that he goes out with Whose Line Is It Anyway?

01:08:04.000 Right.

01:08:04.000 With Greg Proops and all those guys.

01:08:07.000 And they kill. 0.98

01:08:08.000 Yeah.

01:08:09.000 I mean, there's, you know, I knew they were going to kill because I know how good my brother is who's an improviser.

01:08:16.000 He can, you know, if you get good at it, and my brother is really good at it, far better than I. I ever was or could hope to be.

01:08:24.000 Because he's really kept at it.

01:08:26.000 And so he really goes and goes hard at it.

01:08:30.000 He's really good at it. 0.98

01:08:31.000 I knew that they would kill it.

01:08:32.000 I didn't realize how much fun the show would be from an audience perspective.

01:08:35.000 Like, they drag a lot of people up on the stage.

01:08:38.000 And I think, well, that can go any way at all.

01:08:41.000 And they managed to get...

01:08:43.000 I mean, the show I saw, they had people in the audience that probably should have...

01:08:48.000 And hired.

01:08:49.000 That was funny.

01:08:50.000 But there's something about the uncertainty of bringing up someone from the audience that raises the energy level and the expectation and the possibility.

01:09:00.000 Yeah.

01:09:01.000 And the crowd goes crazy for it. 0.97

01:09:04.000 Actors, the performers go crazy, too, because it's like, God damn, they just killed us. 0.99

01:09:08.000 They just came up here and murdered us. 0.99

01:09:11.000 And that's where the real fun is.

01:09:13.000 So they're enjoying themselves.

01:09:16.000 Well, it's a tight show.

01:09:17.000 They've been doing that show for so long.

01:09:19.000 Their muscles are very developed.

01:09:21.000 They're comedy improvisation muscles.

01:09:23.000 They're just so sharp.

01:09:25.000 When you do a show like that on the road constantly, you develop a sort of feel for how to improvise and how things can go.

01:09:32.000 Well, you're fearless, and, you know, you're certainly—anyone that's ever been in that racket knows you can't be afraid of dying.

01:09:40.000 Right.

01:09:40.000 So if you're not afraid of dying, let's go.

01:09:44.000 Here we go.

01:09:45.000 And anything—and there's a handful of you, so it's like the Magnificent Seven. 1.00

01:09:49.000 If I don't kill you, he will. 0.99

01:09:51.000 Right, right, right, right, right. 1.00

01:09:52.000 So if I don't kill you, he will. 1.00

01:09:54.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:09:56.000 So it's fun to watch.

01:09:57.000 It was really fun to watch, finally see it live.

01:09:59.000 I'd only seen it on television.

01:10:01.000 To see the live show was cool.

01:10:02.000 I recommend it, too.

01:10:04.000 They're coming to a town near you if you're living in the United States of America.

01:10:07.000 It's a great show.

01:10:08.000 You should definitely go see it if they're coming to you.

01:10:10.000 Dave Foley, who was on Kids in the Hall, he was also on NewsRadio.

01:10:15.000 Oh! 0.60

01:10:16.000 Okay.

01:10:16.000 He played the manager of the station who was in charge of reigning in film.

01:10:21.000 Stephen Root from Office Space and a million other things.

01:10:26.000 Andy Dick, Maura Tierney, Vicki Lewis, Candy Alexander.

01:10:32.000 I know a lot of those people.

01:10:33.000 Yeah.

01:10:34.000 So that was the show.

01:10:35.000 So it ran five years.

01:10:37.000 Yeah.

01:10:38.000 Well, around four years, and then Phil got killed.

01:10:41.000 Oh, that's what ended it?

01:10:42.000 John Lovitz, who was a good friend of his, took his place.

01:10:47.000 Well, not take it over, necessarily.

01:10:48.000 It was a real ensemble.

01:10:50.000 I mean, Dave was really the main star, Dave Foley was.

01:10:52.000 But it was...

01:10:53.000 It just, you know, for whatever reason, I think the John Lovitz ones were really funny.

01:10:59.000 They were really good, but it was just...

01:11:00.000 It's just different and funny.

01:11:01.000 It was just the end of the line.

01:11:03.000 The show was over, and it got canceled after the fifth year.

01:11:06.000 Yeah, there's something about...

01:11:07.000 It was like that.

01:11:08.000 It was Saturday Night Live.

01:11:08.000 The fifth year, it's like, wait a second.

01:11:09.000 High school is only five years.

01:11:11.000 Why should this show be?

01:11:13.000 Five years is a long time.

01:11:15.000 It's a long time.

01:11:16.000 I know.

01:11:16.000 It's amazing to think.

01:11:17.000 We thought, like, five years, this is it.

01:11:19.000 We're done.

01:11:20.000 Goodbye, everybody.

01:11:21.000 That was 45 years ago?

01:11:24.000 Who the hell thought that would happen?

01:11:26.000 Is it the longest-running show ever on television?

01:11:29.000 I think the Today Show is the longest-running show.

01:11:31.000 Oh, is it really?

01:11:32.000 Well, if I had to guess.

01:11:34.000 Certainly the longest-running show that's actually entertaining.

01:11:36.000 I mean, SNL's been around for so long.

01:11:38.000 Don't tell Al Roker that, buddy.

01:11:41.000 Can I take a break for a second?

01:11:43.000 Yeah.

01:11:43.000 I'll be right back.

01:11:44.000 Take a leak.

01:11:45.000 Be right back.

01:11:45.000 You're in charge.

01:11:46.000 Okay.

01:11:47.000 I'll do a little bit.

01:11:49.000 See you in a bit.

01:11:50.000 You have so much cool stuff on the walls.

01:11:53.000 A lot of art.

01:11:53.000 Do you do shows where you walk around and show all the stuff?

01:11:56.000 No, no.

01:11:57.000 Really?

01:11:57.000 No, no, no, no.

01:11:59.000 It's personal.

01:12:00.000 For us and the guests.

01:12:02.000 Well, there is a photograph in the men's room.

01:12:05.000 Which one?

01:12:07.000 It's Presley.

01:12:08.000 And it looks like it's a mugshot.

01:12:10.000 It's a fake mugshot.

01:12:11.000 So what it is is he went to the White House and he met with Nixon.

01:12:15.000 Okay, the gun thing where Nixon gives him a revolver.

01:12:17.000 He gives him an automatic pistol.

01:12:20.000 Yeah, what did he give him?

01:12:21.000 And Nixon gives him a drug badge to be a drug agent.

01:12:26.000 You don't know that part?

01:12:27.000 That's right, I forgot about that part.

01:12:29.000 He gave Presley a gun badge. 0.99

01:12:32.000 Because Presley would talk shit about all these guys who were doing drugs. 1.00

01:12:35.000 Meanwhile, he was high as fuck. 1.00

01:12:37.000 Well... 1.00

01:12:38.000 He was in pain, you know?

01:12:40.000 Yes.

01:12:40.000 He was in pain.

01:12:41.000 He had physical pain.

01:12:42.000 What was the physical pain?

01:12:44.000 What was wrong with him?

01:12:45.000 I think he did the splits a lot of times.

01:12:48.000 You know, like Chevy's, you know, Chevy hurt himself falling, you know?

01:12:51.000 Oh, yeah.

01:12:51.000 People have pain.

01:12:53.000 Presley had, I don't know, I don't remember all the facts, but Presley had physical pain.

01:13:00.000 I don't know what his back or something like this, sacchiliac or whatever the hell.

01:13:03.000 And they got him hooked.

01:13:05.000 And so he had like painkillers.

01:13:06.000 Right, but it's just hilarious that he was the drug guy.

01:13:08.000 It is hilarious.

01:13:09.000 Yeah, it's like good fun.

01:13:12.000 It's like a great American story.

01:13:15.000 And like, you just see the picture.

01:13:18.000 There's a photograph that exists of Nixon handing him the badge.

01:13:22.000 And, you know, you can laugh looking at it going, right.

01:13:25.000 That's exactly right.

01:13:27.000 Yeah.

01:13:30.000 But yeah, there it is. 1.00

01:13:32.000 And there's the damn badge. 1.00

01:13:33.000 Special assistant. 1.00

01:13:35.000 Special assistant.

01:13:37.000 You know what I did see the other night?

01:13:39.000 Did you ever see Frost and Nixon?

01:13:41.000 No.

01:13:43.000 It's a movie that was made.

01:13:47.000 And back in the day, after Watergate...

01:13:51.000 Is his name David Frost?

01:13:53.000 He was a British interviewer cat.

01:13:55.000 And he staged...

01:13:58.000 He had this idea to, he was trying to like, he sort of lost his place in the universe of England anyway, or the world.

01:14:06.000 And he came up with this idea somehow to, if he could somehow get an interview with Richard Nixon.

01:14:13.000 And it's a pretty well-made movie.

01:14:15.000 It's a very well-made movie about it.

01:14:18.000 And they paint Frost pretty much as like...

01:14:21.000 Maybe what he was like, sort of what the perception, my perception is kind of what he was like.

01:14:27.000 Not a perfect person, but certainly not, you know, but certainly got some juice, certainly has some sort of idea of something going on.

01:14:40.000 That sounds very small, but he was a little complicated.

01:14:45.000 That's the cheating word.

01:14:47.000 And Nixon too.

01:14:48.000 And I just want to say that Frank Langella, who I only know from like doing – he was kind of like a Broadway guy and he did some horror movies.

01:14:56.000 He's really good as Nixon.

01:14:58.000 Very, very, very, very good as Nixon.

01:15:01.000 And it's just a really well-made movie.

01:15:03.000 And I was up in New York and I thought, you know, I'm going to find Frank Langella.

01:15:07.000 There it is right there.

01:15:08.000 And tell him so.

01:15:09.000 There's the guy.

01:15:10.000 I don't know what this man's name is who plays for us.

01:15:12.000 I can't recall anything.

01:15:13.000 But he's good.

01:15:14.000 And there's Langella playing Nixon.

01:15:16.000 And Langella is really good as Nixon.

01:15:19.000 And Nixon's not easy to do.

01:15:21.000 Does he do the voice well?

01:15:22.000 He does them well.

01:15:23.000 And, you know, when you try too hard...

01:15:25.000 Let me hear those.

01:15:27.000 Your personal lawyer came to Washington.

01:15:29.000 Yeah.

01:15:29.000 There you go.

01:15:30.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:15:31.000 Pretty fucking good. 0.98

01:15:31.000 It's good. 0.98

01:15:32.000 Yeah, he's really good.

01:15:33.000 So I never got around to finding out where Frank Langell lived in New York or calling him up.

01:15:39.000 But maybe someone who knows him, listens to your show, will say, hey, Frank, you got a shout out today in Texas.

01:15:45.000 That guy's great.

01:15:46.000 He was great as Dracula, too.

01:15:47.000 Yeah.

01:15:48.000 That whole Nixon Watergate story, I used to think about it very differently until Tucker Carlson broke it down for me.

01:15:56.000 Bob Woodward was an intelligence agent, and the first time he ever gets a job as a journalist, he's covering Watergate.

01:16:02.000 All the people that were involved in the break-in, FBI people, it was a complete intelligence operation.

01:16:09.000 Nixon definitely did the things they accused him of, but the whole thing was sort of coordinated by the intelligence agents to get Nixon out of office.

01:16:18.000 Apparently, what the story was, according to—I can play you the Tucker thing if you'd like to see it.

01:16:23.000 But apparently what the story was, it sounds crazy.

01:16:27.000 But the story was that Nixon was digging into who killed JFK. One of the things that they wanted to set up when he was running for president is to make sure that Gerald Ford was his vice president.

01:16:40.000 Gerald Ford was also on the Warren Commission.

01:16:43.000 He was digging into it, and they wanted to remove him from office.

01:16:47.000 They set this up.

01:16:48.000 They framed him.

01:16:50.000 He did it.

01:16:51.000 They got him out of office.

01:16:53.000 Gerald Ford gets in.

01:16:54.000 Okay, I got a shorter version.

01:16:55.000 Okay.

01:16:56.000 You're going to take me down to the Kennedy Road.

01:16:59.000 Where are we going there with that one?

01:17:00.000 I got Richard Belzer tapes I can play for you.

01:17:02.000 Oh, I'm a fan of Belzer.

01:17:04.000 I've met Belzer.

01:17:06.000 Belzer and I talked UFOs.

01:17:08.000 The new guy is going to bring out all the warrant commission stuff.

01:17:14.000 Supposedly release all this stuff.

01:17:16.000 Allegedly. 0.98

01:17:16.000 But my question is, what the fuck is going to be in there? 0.98

01:17:19.000 Good call on allegedly. 0.99

01:17:20.000 I like that.

01:17:20.000 It's not going to be, hey, this guy did it.

01:17:23.000 Here it is.

01:17:23.000 No.

01:17:24.000 Here's the way I see the Bob Woodward story.

01:17:27.000 See, you said, I don't know, what did you say first about Nixon, about your way of looking at Nixon?

01:17:33.000 The way I look at Nixon, and part of it is, seeing this, I like this way that, I love the way Langella did this.

01:17:40.000 I thought it was really well done and made a character of him, you know, a person of him.

01:17:49.000 But to me, I feel, here's what I feel about Nixon.

01:17:55.000 It's like, you know, he was hard to care for.

01:17:59.000 He ran against JFK, who was everybody's, you know, my hero.

01:18:02.000 And my father actually pushed me into John F. Kennedy in 1960. You know, just pushed me into the crowd and just pushed me up so I'd bounce up against him.

01:18:12.000 Now I'd have been wrestled to the ground.

01:18:14.000 But back then, you could do that.

01:18:15.000 Anyway, I felt like Nixon was – and certainly knowing Hunter and knowing all of the history of Nixon and whatever, Nixon wasn't my guy.

01:18:29.000 Oh, agreed.

01:18:30.000 He was not my guy.

01:18:31.000 No, I'm not defending Nixon in any way, shape, or form.

01:18:33.000 In fact, I talked about Nixon before that I think he's the problem with the whole psychedelics, drug, legalization act of 1970. But however, when I read Wired, the book written by, what's his name, Woodward, About Belushi.

01:18:48.000 I read like five pages of Wired and I went, oh my God.

01:18:54.000 They framed Nixon.

01:18:57.000 All of a sudden I went, oh my God, if this is what he writes about my friend that I've known for half of my adult life, which is completely inaccurate, talking to the people of the outer, outer circle getting the story, what the hell could they have done to Nixon?

01:19:15.000 I just felt like If he did this to my friend like this, and I acknowledge I only read five pages, but the five pages I read made me want to set fire to the whole thing.

01:19:27.000 Those five pages, I went...

01:19:29.000 If he did this to Belushi, what he did to Nixon is probably soiled for me, too.

01:19:36.000 I can't take it.

01:19:38.000 And I know you say, well, you could have two sources and everything like that.

01:19:41.000 But the two sources that he had, if he had them for the Wired book...

01:19:45.000 We're so far outside the inner circle that it was criminal, cruel.

01:19:50.000 And the reasoning for it is that the most famous person ever to come from Wheaton, Illinois, is John Belushi.

01:20:00.000 The second most famous person to come from Wheaton, Illinois, is Harold Red Grange, the football player.

01:20:08.000 And the third most famous person to come from Wheaton, Illinois.

01:20:15.000 It's Bob Woodward.

01:20:16.000 Really?

01:20:20.000 Wow.

01:20:21.000 So, there's all my controversy for today.

01:20:24.000 That's all I got.

01:20:24.000 I got a bone about that one.

01:20:26.000 You know, I got a bone for Woodward ever since I read that. 0.99

01:20:29.000 Well, once you see it from something that you know, you know, once you see propaganda or bullshit from someone that you know, and you see a distorted perception, it really, it opens your eyes to the fact that a lot of the things you read are horseshit. 0.96

01:20:43.000 I mean, Belushi made people's careers possible. 0.97

01:20:50.000 He made people's careers possible.

01:20:53.000 Mine would be one of them.

01:20:55.000 All the people that he dragged to New York.

01:20:57.000 He went to New York first.

01:20:58.000 He broke into New York.

01:21:00.000 He took over New York.

01:21:01.000 And he dragged all of us from the second city to New York.

01:21:07.000 He's the one that got everyone there.

01:21:09.000 And there are musicians and lots of them.

01:21:12.000 That will thank Belushi for the creation of, you know, the revivification of the blues.

01:21:18.000 And for, like, the fact that there's, like, a House of Blues chain that blues players can go and play.

01:21:24.000 And there are all these venues that wouldn't have existed without Belushi.

01:21:27.000 Yeah.

01:21:28.000 You know, he did a lot of things for people.

01:21:30.000 He did a lot of...

01:21:31.000 There's a lot of people that slept on John Belushi's couch.

01:21:34.000 There's a lot of people that stayed for free at his house until they made it in New York.

01:21:38.000 And I'm one, and...

01:21:40.000 And any, you know, he died in an unfortunate way.

01:21:45.000 But the man, when he was, he was still the best stage actor I ever saw.

01:21:51.000 He was absolutely magnetic.

01:21:53.000 You couldn't take your eyes off him.

01:21:55.000 And he did a lot of wonderful things for each other.

01:21:57.000 He was a short hitter.

01:21:58.000 Guy could only drink like four beers and he was drunk.

01:22:00.000 So the idea that he died of an overdose is hilarious.

01:22:03.000 Like, that's what my brother said.

01:22:04.000 He said, what, do you have four beers?

01:22:05.000 You know, he's John Stead.

01:22:07.000 What, do you have four beers?

01:22:09.000 He was not really much of a drinker, but...

01:22:11.000 But it was drugs, right?

01:22:13.000 It was drugs, yeah.

01:22:14.000 It was a speedball.

01:22:15.000 Yeah.

01:22:16.000 And it was this, I believe, to my knowledge, it was like the first speedball he ever had.

01:22:22.000 Jesus Christ.

01:22:24.000 So what was the Woodward interpretation?

01:22:27.000 What was his version?

01:22:28.000 Oh, it was just, he was talking to people like, wait a minute, you're telling me that that guy over there...

01:22:34.000 That guy who's that far away from the center of things is telling you the facts about John Belushi? 0.90

01:22:39.000 That guy way the fuck over there is telling you who John Belushi is? 0.94

01:22:43.000 It's like, wait a minute. 0.86

01:22:45.000 And he didn't contact any of you guys?

01:22:46.000 I didn't want to have anything to do with it.

01:22:48.000 I would have nothing to do with it.

01:22:51.000 It smelled funny from day one.

01:22:56.000 Judy wanted people to talk.

01:22:59.000 I was like, sorry.

01:23:00.000 I know where this is going.

01:23:02.000 And it wasn't exactly where I thought it was going.

01:23:06.000 Even worse than where I thought it was going.

01:23:08.000 Even just the title alone.

01:23:11.000 It was cold.

01:23:13.000 So it was just exploitation of his death.

01:23:16.000 You know, you'd have to hold me down and burn my feet to make me read more of it.

01:23:22.000 So I couldn't say that it's exploitation of his death.

01:23:25.000 But, you know, guys that write books come up with, you know.

01:23:29.000 Bob Woodward's got a new title every 45 minutes for another book.

01:23:32.000 Yeah.

01:23:32.000 So, you know.

01:23:35.000 It's a very disturbing thing.

01:23:42.000 It's just tough.

01:23:45.000 In those five pages I read, he tore down my friend.

01:23:51.000 I didn't see any.

01:23:53.000 There was no compensation.

01:23:54.000 There was no balance in the five I read.

01:23:57.000 And maybe I was unlucky, but...

01:24:00.000 If that much was, to me, was disturbingly ugly and, like, irresponsible to report, then I can't imagine that I got so that I only found five.

01:24:16.000 Yeah.

01:24:19.000 You know, and I'm sure he's done, Wilbert does other things.

01:24:21.000 I've seen him on TV, and he can be smart and everything, but, you know, he's going to have to answer for that sometime for something, you know, I think.

01:24:31.000 Yeah.

01:24:31.000 You know, it's just like you don't get a free ride for, not with my friend.

01:24:36.000 No.

01:24:37.000 Well, you can get away with things a lot more back then when he wrote that book as well, you know, so.

01:24:42.000 There's no other venues for people to express themselves.

01:24:45.000 Back then, it was like he writes the book.

01:24:47.000 He does the interviews for the book.

01:24:48.000 This is the narrative.

01:24:50.000 Yeah.

01:24:51.000 And Bob Woodward, like one of the squarest guys in the world, gets to tell the story of what it was like to live in New York City in the 70s.

01:24:59.000 Yeah.

01:25:00.000 Really?

01:25:00.000 In the late 70s and 80s?

01:25:02.000 Like he knew what the story was?

01:25:04.000 Come on.

01:25:05.000 Yeah.

01:25:06.000 That must have been a magical time.

01:25:09.000 It was cool.

01:25:10.000 It was really fun.

01:25:11.000 You know, it was a smaller city in a funny way.

01:25:15.000 There was a lot more freedom.

01:25:18.000 And it was, when I got there, you know, the town was broke, you know.

01:25:23.000 You know, the town was falling apart and, you know, the subways were rough and, you know, people, you know, to me it was exciting.

01:25:33.000 I didn't, what the hell, I know I came from Illinois, from Chicago, from the suburbs of the city in Chicago.

01:25:39.000 Chicago was pretty, It was a city, and it had its own hazards.

01:25:45.000 You know, there was some more hazard.

01:25:47.000 Where I lived in Chicago was more dangerous than where I lived in New York ever.

01:25:52.000 But the city was, you know, the economic part of it and the infrastructure was, you know, like the subways were, you know, people complain about the subways now.

01:26:03.000 I was like, wait a second.

01:26:04.000 These subways are air-conditioned and the windows close.

01:26:07.000 Those windows were open.

01:26:10.000 Summer and winter, and you either froze or you had, like, metal shavings dust flying through in the summer with no heat, with no air conditioning.

01:26:21.000 And, you know, if it's 97 degrees out, it's even hotter inside a crowded subway car, you know?

01:26:27.000 That was also back when Times Square was Times Square.

01:26:30.000 And it was cool.

01:26:31.000 Yeah, Times Square is just as weird now, but it's just a different weird.

01:26:35.000 They sort of tried to sanitize it, you know, and it's... 1.00

01:26:39.000 It's kind of stupid. 0.98

01:26:40.000 I mean, now there's a lot more lights and everything. 1.00

01:26:42.000 There's more signs.

01:26:43.000 But the signs were always cool.

01:26:45.000 When they were neon, they were cool.

01:26:46.000 Now there's just these glow lights and they just keep moving and dancing.

01:26:50.000 And, you know, people with, like, vision problems shouldn't be out.

01:26:54.000 And people, you know, who are the people that are supposed to watch out for strobe lights?

01:26:58.000 Yeah, epileptics.

01:26:59.000 Can't walk through Times Square.

01:27:00.000 And 42nd Street is blah.

01:27:04.000 It's, like, dull, you know?

01:27:06.000 It's an Applebee's.

01:27:06.000 Back then it was like, wow.

01:27:08.000 It's a giant Applebee's.

01:27:09.000 It's a giant Applebee's with huge ads.

01:27:12.000 Giant LCD ads.

01:27:13.000 But it was cool back then.

01:27:16.000 You could see stuff.

01:27:17.000 There was real stuff to see.

01:27:18.000 Not that it's still real, but it's just a different real.

01:27:22.000 There's a lot more...

01:27:23.000 It's a whole international world now, which it wasn't back then.

01:27:27.000 Back then it was just like the street survivors of the city at the very physical center of it.

01:27:37.000 You saw some amazing things.

01:27:39.000 And it was alive, certainly alive.

01:27:42.000 Now there's, you know, you're crashing into, not exactly debutante, or not exactly like bridesmaid parties, but like, you know, there's people with flags and dragging people around and stuff.

01:27:53.000 Well, there's always a lot.

01:27:54.000 There's a lot to see.

01:27:56.000 There's still a lot to see.

01:27:57.000 It's still New York City, New York.

01:28:00.000 But back then, having that experience, being in that wild New York of the 1970s, and then getting on SNL, how old were you?

01:28:10.000 26. Wow.

01:28:15.000 That had to have been a fucking bizarre experience. 0.99

01:28:18.000 Yes, it was. 0.99

01:28:19.000 It was a great experience for sure.

01:28:21.000 And, you know, you saw, you know, your life just changed dramatically from being, you know, unable to – barely able to pay your rent or afford, you know, a car, a telephone, anything unable to – barely able to pay your rent or afford, you know, a to having a credit card.

01:28:47.000 Like, that was a big thing, you know, a credit card and a credit card.

01:28:52.000 You know, we had to, because they wanted a safe, we had this sort of cab account with a thing called Skulls Angels.

01:29:00.000 There was a sort of company within the Yellow Cab Company called Skulls Angels.

01:29:04.000 And you could call them, and they would pick you up anywhere in the city and take you wherever.

01:29:08.000 And it was just, you just signed your name.

01:29:10.000 You didn't have to have any money.

01:29:11.000 And I had a credit card and that account, and that's all.

01:29:16.000 And I just went, lived for...

01:29:19.000 A couple of years like that.

01:29:21.000 Basically, all you were doing was going to work and going to sleep.

01:29:26.000 And then in between, when you'd have 12 or 15 hours where you didn't have to do anything, you'd go like, okay, let's go.

01:29:33.000 And then you'd go like, anything could happen.

01:29:38.000 Anything could happen.

01:29:38.000 And you could go anywhere in the city and you sort of had a sort of a thumbprint of okay.

01:29:45.000 You could go into any place and people would be like...

01:29:47.000 Come on in, you know.

01:29:49.000 And you got to, you know, really, you know, I mean, I probably could have done, you know, gotten more out of it, but I certainly got a lot, I put a lot into it, you know.

01:30:04.000 I got a lot, an amazing kind of education, you know.

01:30:10.000 I got an amazing education, but I guess that gets back to, you know.

01:30:17.000 I got to put my education to use, is what I should say.

01:30:20.000 I mean, in this kind of new challenging environment, I got to put what my education to that point had been to use.

01:30:28.000 What was the adjustment like going from being broke to all of a sudden having money, being famous, living in New York City, trying to make sense of this new reality that you live in?

01:30:39.000 Well, I'll try to do them in order.

01:30:43.000 Well, being broke was, oh, I should tell you.

01:30:46.000 I'm here in Austin, Texas.

01:30:48.000 This is a William Murray golf shirt I brought you.

01:30:53.000 Somehow I got involved with these clothes.

01:30:55.000 The clothes got involved with me.

01:30:57.000 And that's me.

01:30:59.000 That is I and that person right there.

01:31:01.000 And I brought you a pair of shorts.

01:31:02.000 Oh, thank you.

01:31:04.000 I also brought licorice, which you don't want.

01:31:08.000 He's a licorice dealer.

01:31:09.000 I don't know what to make of you.

01:31:10.000 You don't want licorice.

01:31:12.000 Anyway.

01:31:13.000 So anyway, the shorts are very...

01:31:15.000 You're not too chubby, but the shorts are very forgiving.

01:31:23.000 Are these golf shorts?

01:31:24.000 I've been traveling.

01:31:25.000 Yeah, they're kind of golf.

01:31:26.000 So are you gray?

01:31:27.000 Are you a gray guy?

01:31:28.000 I can wear gray.

01:31:29.000 Yeah, sure, I'll wear that.

01:31:29.000 That's what I thought.

01:31:30.000 I thought you'd be a gray guy.

01:31:31.000 Those are for you.

01:31:32.000 Thank you very much.

01:31:32.000 I've got my name on them, so if they get lost, they'll be returned to me.

01:31:36.000 Nice.

01:31:37.000 Thank you very much.

01:31:38.000 I'm excited.

01:31:39.000 And wait, I got your shirt.

01:31:42.000 I thought you might like this shirt because this kind of has the range of possibility on it.

01:31:47.000 Oh, yeah.

01:31:49.000 That kind of has sort of a studious look for you.

01:31:52.000 There's a lot going on in that.

01:31:54.000 There's a lot going on.

01:31:55.000 Thank you.

01:31:56.000 There you go.

01:31:57.000 Thank you very much.

01:31:58.000 Yeah, you're welcome.

01:32:00.000 I have long pants, too, if you want some long pants.

01:32:02.000 No, I'm good.

01:32:02.000 But I think you're more of a shorts guy.

01:32:04.000 Yeah, I'm good.

01:32:05.000 Thank you, though.

01:32:06.000 Jamie's a gigantic golfer.

01:32:08.000 Oh, yeah?

01:32:08.000 Are you a long...

01:32:09.000 You're tall.

01:32:11.000 How tall are you?

01:32:11.000 6'1"?

01:32:12.000 Well, it's not that tall.

01:32:14.000 Let's see.

01:32:16.000 So we're the same, sort of.

01:32:18.000 And so you like white?

01:32:20.000 Blue?

01:32:21.000 Sure.

01:32:22.000 Or black? 0.99

01:32:22.000 Those are shorts. 0.99

01:32:24.000 Hold on.

01:32:25.000 Are you a shorts guy or a long pants guy?

01:32:26.000 I like it all.

01:32:27.000 It's usually hot in Texas.

01:32:28.000 You love it all, huh?

01:32:29.000 It's hot out here to play golf in Texas.

01:32:31.000 It's hot?

01:32:32.000 Texas gets hot when you're playing golf.

01:32:34.000 Usually.

01:32:35.000 I bet.

01:32:36.000 Well...

01:32:36.000 But you can play all year here.

01:32:38.000 How chubby are you?

01:32:39.000 I'm not.

01:32:41.000 I don't think it is.

01:32:43.000 Okay, well the pants are pretty good.

01:32:45.000 You want the shorts?

01:32:46.000 Yeah, give them the shorts. 1.00

01:32:47.000 These are black.

01:32:48.000 Nice.

01:32:49.000 And that's the Murray Tartan right there.

01:32:51.000 That's the family Tartan there.

01:32:52.000 There you go.

01:32:53.000 Is that like from your family seal?

01:32:55.000 Huh?

01:32:56.000 The Tartan is a special to your family?

01:32:58.000 Yeah, that's the Murray Tartan.

01:33:00.000 Really?

01:33:00.000 Yeah.

01:33:01.000 Nice.

01:33:02.000 Yeah.

01:33:03.000 Okay.

01:33:03.000 And then so here.

01:33:04.000 And then so you want a shirt?

01:33:08.000 Sure.

01:33:08.000 I should show off this shirt.

01:33:10.000 This is a shirt because my brother has something to do with this one.

01:33:13.000 This has got all this stuff from Chicago on it.

01:33:16.000 Oh, nice.

01:33:17.000 I haven't even looked at this yet.

01:33:19.000 Guitars.

01:33:20.000 Looks like a pizza place.

01:33:22.000 I don't know why there's tambourines and stuff on it.

01:33:25.000 I have no idea.

01:33:26.000 There's always a glass of beer for some reason.

01:33:28.000 There's a drum.

01:33:29.000 But there's a bunch of references to people we know and things we did in Chicago.

01:33:35.000 I see there's, like, the names of some character in a movie I played.

01:33:38.000 And then there's Slew's Place.

01:33:39.000 That's my friend Jeff Slewman, who's a golfer.

01:33:41.000 I think you're going to like this shirt here, Jamie.

01:33:44.000 How's that for you?

01:33:44.000 Oh, that's perfect.

01:33:46.000 That's Jamie.

01:33:46.000 Okay.

01:33:47.000 What color pants did I throw at you? 0.99

01:33:49.000 Well, I got some black shorts over here.

01:33:51.000 Perfect.

01:33:51.000 Black shorts, dark blue shirt.

01:33:53.000 You're in.

01:33:53.000 You can pull that off.

01:33:54.000 There you go.

01:33:55.000 Way to go high for that one.

01:33:56.000 Thanks.

01:33:57.000 When you stomp Tony Hinchcliffe in this inevitable match, you'll wear that.

01:34:02.000 It'll be perfect.

01:34:03.000 There's that.

01:34:04.000 How long have you been golfing for?

01:34:06.000 Well, the question is how long have I been caddying for?

01:34:09.000 So I started caddying when I was very young.

01:34:14.000 Our eldest brother, Edward, started caddying.

01:34:17.000 So Caddyshack must have been a lot of fun for you then.

01:34:20.000 Yeah, well, Caddyshack came, you know, my brother Brian was the, wrote the, Brian wrote it with Doug Kenny, one of the really great funny guys from National Lampoon, and Harold Ramis, who ended up directing the movie.

01:34:33.000 But all the golf stuff is all Brian's memories of caddying.

01:34:38.000 The whole golf story comes from Brian, sort of.

01:34:41.000 I mean, they all write jokes, but...

01:34:43.000 Doug was in charge of all the fancy lad stuff.

01:34:47.000 His dad was some sort of tennis pro sometime or other in Ohio.

01:34:51.000 And Harold wrote the jokes that were left and shaped it and directed it.

01:34:56.000 So you started off caddying?

01:34:58.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:34:59.000 I started as a shag boy, which doesn't even exist anymore.

01:35:02.000 What is that?

01:35:02.000 There's a thing called a jam boy, which I don't know if it really exists.

01:35:05.000 My friend Duff insists that back in the day there was a thing called a jam boy who walked around, I think it was a slave or something like it, who walked around covered with jam to draw the insects away from the golfers.

01:35:19.000 Now, I don't know if that's true or not.

01:35:21.000 We should ask your listeners.

01:35:23.000 But I didn't have it that bad, of course, but a shag boy was... 1.00

01:35:29.000 Golfers had what they called a shag bag, which was like a small bag of golf balls, like 100 golf balls or something like that.

01:35:36.000 And they would dump them out on the practice tee, and you would run out there with the bag, and you would be the target.

01:35:43.000 Okay, go out about 70 yards, 60 yards, you know, and then they'd start hitting...

01:35:47.000 See?

01:35:49.000 No, but see, that would be safer than what I was wearing.

01:35:52.000 We didn't have that.

01:35:53.000 But I was just out there.

01:35:56.000 But I was definitely out there, and they would aim at you.

01:35:59.000 And the thing was, it would last for an hour or so.

01:36:02.000 And, you know, I was 10 when I started doing this.

01:36:06.000 So your mind would wander, and occasionally you'd hear like a ball land next to you or really close.

01:36:13.000 I never got conked exactly on the head, but I definitely got hit on one bounce any number of times.

01:36:20.000 You were just a target.

01:36:21.000 And then he'd wave in the next club and you'd go like, seven iron.

01:36:24.000 So he'd have to back up a little farther and then farther.

01:36:27.000 And the bigger the club, the wider the dispersion of the ball.

01:36:31.000 So you had to run back.

01:36:32.000 You really had to run to catch up to where this bad golfer was hitting the golf balls. 0.96

01:36:38.000 So that was when I was 10. And then like a year or so later, I became like a caddy.

01:36:43.000 And then I caddied all the way through high school.

01:36:45.000 Paid my way through high school.

01:36:46.000 When did you start playing?

01:36:48.000 Well, if you showed up to Caddy on Sunday, you were allowed to play golf on Monday morning.

01:36:54.000 So probably I didn't really play golf-golf like that until really 12 maybe.

01:37:01.000 Maybe a little sooner.

01:37:02.000 But we used to play golf across the street from our house.

01:37:06.000 There was like a line of telephone poles planted in grass, you know.

01:37:12.000 And we would play from phone pole to phone pole.

01:37:14.000 And that was the pin.

01:37:19.000 So that's it.

01:37:20.000 And then I didn't really play.

01:37:21.000 I mean, once I sort of, you know, made it through high school, I didn't play for a long time until I made some money.

01:37:28.000 And then all of a sudden you can play golf again.

01:37:29.000 Because golf, if you're not catting, it takes money to play.

01:37:33.000 You've got to at least play and be organized and have a set of clubs and stuff.

01:37:37.000 So I picked it up then.

01:37:41.000 And now I like it, you know.

01:37:43.000 I was going to give it up a few years ago, but then...

01:37:46.000 You know, all of a sudden my son started playing golf.

01:37:49.000 I was like, well, that's what you got to do, you know.

01:37:52.000 So now I'm having more fun playing, and I've gotten smarter.

01:37:57.000 Do you ever play golf?

01:37:58.000 No.

01:37:58.000 Never?

01:37:59.000 No, never.

01:38:01.000 No, I'm scared of it.

01:38:03.000 Because I think it'll eat up all my time.

01:38:05.000 Because I get addicted to games.

01:38:07.000 Oh.

01:38:08.000 Yeah.

01:38:08.000 I play pool a lot.

01:38:11.000 Do you have a pool table here?

01:38:12.000 I got a couple pool tables here.

01:38:13.000 Oh.

01:38:14.000 I got one at home.

01:38:15.000 Yeah.

01:38:16.000 And what games do you play?

01:38:17.000 Do you play, like, straight pool?

01:38:19.000 Nine ball, ten ball.

01:38:20.000 You know, I should work on nine ball.

01:38:22.000 I have a pool table.

01:38:23.000 I mostly play with...

01:38:24.000 The thing about it is I know everybody who plays golf gets fully addicted to it and loves it to death.

01:38:30.000 And I just don't have the time to get fully addicted to another thing.

01:38:34.000 And, you know, just being friends with Jamie and seeing Jamie's addiction...

01:38:37.000 See what's happened to him.

01:38:38.000 ...over the last few years. 0.98

01:38:39.000 He's become a maniac.

01:38:40.000 He's got a golfing simulator in the back and...

01:38:43.000 Really?

01:38:43.000 ...drives balls and...

01:38:45.000 Oh, yeah.

01:38:46.000 A trackman?

01:38:47.000 It's in here?

01:38:48.000 Yeah.

01:38:49.000 Wow.

01:38:49.000 Yeah, it's set up in the garage.

01:38:52.000 Do you live here?

01:38:53.000 Do you guys live in this building?

01:38:54.000 No, it's a big building, but we don't live here.

01:38:57.000 We could.

01:38:58.000 We definitely could.

01:38:59.000 Maybe that's the next one.

01:39:00.000 Maybe the next one will set up dorms.

01:39:02.000 Maybe.

01:39:03.000 Yeah, because there's always the rooftop.

01:39:05.000 Yeah.

01:39:06.000 Well, I don't want you to get addicted.

01:39:10.000 I've heard you're a very good golfer.

01:39:12.000 That's why I'm asking.

01:39:13.000 Well, just keep that light going.

01:39:16.000 But I can play okay.

01:39:18.000 I've hit a lot of golf shots.

01:39:20.000 What's your handicap?

01:39:21.000 Jamie will know what that means.

01:39:22.000 Now it's about 12. The lowest I ever was was about 7. It means I can play a little bit.

01:39:28.000 And now it's actually, what's the word?

01:39:31.000 Diminishing?

01:39:31.000 It's going lower.

01:39:33.000 Because I've figured something out.

01:39:35.000 There's a great book, these ladies. 0.99

01:39:40.000 Pia Nielsen and Lynn.

01:39:45.000 Pia Nilsson is an easy one to remember, but Linz, whatever Linz last time, they wrote a great book called Every Shot Must Have a Purpose.

01:39:51.000 Did you ever read that one?

01:39:53.000 Well, I should talk about them because they really are on to something, and it's about quieting your brain when you play, which I always thought I'd get better as my brain softened.

01:40:04.000 It seemed to be happening.

01:40:05.000 My brain was softening.

01:40:07.000 It was maybe getting better, but not fast enough for me.

01:40:10.000 And then I started following what these ladies had to write. 1.00

01:40:13.000 They were Annika's teachers at one time.

01:40:16.000 Annika Sorenstam.

01:40:17.000 She's a famous golfer. 1.00

01:40:18.000 Okay.

01:40:19.000 Swedish.

01:40:20.000 Every shot must have a purpose. 0.67

01:40:21.000 There it is.

01:40:21.000 And there's the forward by Annika.

01:40:23.000 Anyway, Lynn Marriott.

01:40:24.000 How can...

01:40:25.000 See, I'm blocking that because it's a hotel name.

01:40:28.000 And I... I didn't used to be a member of the Marriott Club, but okay, so that's a great book, and they've written a bunch of stuff.

01:40:37.000 They know some stuff.

01:40:38.000 You should try that one, Jamie.

01:40:40.000 What does it change?

01:40:41.000 It made me enjoy.

01:40:42.000 I enjoy golf.

01:40:43.000 I've always had a lot of fun, but that made me enjoy golf even more.

01:40:47.000 How so?

01:40:48.000 Like, what is it?

01:40:48.000 You know, it just, it's decluttering, you know?

01:40:51.000 It's like when you do it in your life, and you...

01:40:57.000 You know, you mentioned distractions at the very beginning.

01:41:01.000 You know, you think about all the things that can catch you, you know, to distract you.

01:41:05.000 And if you're trying to do something that's pretty straightforward, whether it's stir grits or sew a line whether it's stir grits or sew a line of something or...

01:41:28.000 Or play a game of golf, which ideally you only have to swing, hit the ball like 75 times.

01:41:35.000 Everything that distracts you from that is a problem.

01:41:41.000 So it's the ability to sort of just pull the weeds out of your head, as I read a Japanese man say once, and attend to it when you attend to it.

01:41:53.000 You know, it's a few hours to play a round of golf.

01:41:55.000 Like you say, it takes a whole time.

01:41:57.000 But the actual playing of the game is only minutes.

01:42:01.000 The actual hitting of the ball is only minutes.

01:42:03.000 Like an NFL game can take like three hours on TV, but it's like 20 minutes of action.

01:42:09.000 Right, right.

01:42:10.000 So it's similar to that in golf or anything that you have to sort of return to yourself to hit the ball.

01:42:20.000 You've got to come back.

01:42:22.000 Get it back together to hit the ball or do anything.

01:42:27.000 And so you have the freedom in between the shots to move and to speak and tell jokes and smoke cigars and whatever you want to do.

01:42:37.000 But when you want to hit the ball, this is about you're going to think, make a little plan, and you separate that.

01:42:45.000 You sort of inculcate that.

01:42:48.000 You take it in and then...

01:42:49.000 You separate that and you step up and you hit the thing.

01:42:52.000 And hitting the thing is only hitting the thing.

01:42:55.000 And if you can do that, then you start having real success with the actual hitting.

01:43:01.000 And the sort of joy of the sort of mind-body connection and all this sort of aesthetic, all the kind of like, you know, almost spiritual things about a mind-body exercise, a game, come to you, you know?

01:43:18.000 You know, when you hear great athletes say they're in a zone, they're not in a zone.

01:43:23.000 They're really conscious.

01:43:25.000 They're really connected.

01:43:26.000 They're really aware.

01:43:27.000 It's more than a zone.

01:43:30.000 It's like the ideal place to be.

01:43:32.000 Right, right.

01:43:34.000 And what is it about their writing that helped you?

01:43:37.000 Like, what is their philosophy that helped, like, steer you more towards being able to do that?

01:43:42.000 Well, for an example, it's like something that can keep you in your body because you have to stay in your body.

01:43:48.000 I believe that anyway.

01:43:50.000 I'd already believe that.

01:43:51.000 So you've got this dreidel here, right? 0.64

01:43:53.000 So imagine it's a golf ball.

01:43:55.000 One thing that they sort of say was like you would just, in between shots, you would just take your golf ball, if you're on a putting green or if you have a spear in your pocket, and you just toss it up and catch it.

01:44:09.000 Toss it up and catch it.

01:44:11.000 That keeps you physically aware of, I've got to do this.

01:44:18.000 And this and that.

01:44:20.000 I've got to do these two things, so I've got to have my attention in my body.

01:44:24.000 I've got to stay home, you know?

01:44:27.000 So if you can stay in your body, it all begins in the body.

01:44:31.000 Everything we are, everything we hope to be, everything we dream about, it's all within the skin.

01:44:37.000 So you've got to stay within the skin.

01:44:39.000 So if you can make yourself come back, if you can get yourself back inside, you don't have so far to go.

01:44:47.000 To achieve your intended goal.

01:44:51.000 Right.

01:44:51.000 You don't have to drag yourself back from outer space.

01:44:54.000 You're not dreaming over there.

01:44:56.000 I'm in my body already.

01:44:57.000 So I'm close.

01:44:59.000 Does that make sense, Jamie?

01:45:00.000 Yes.

01:45:01.000 So, and, you know, I've had some discussions with Pia, and she says, well, that's what the great golfers are doing.

01:45:08.000 They are pulling themselves back into this thing.

01:45:12.000 That's why they hit so many good shots.

01:45:14.000 It's because they're home.

01:45:17.000 You know, they're home.

01:45:18.000 So that's sort of what I got out of her.

01:45:22.000 And I sort of learned and believed that from other venues.

01:45:26.000 But I never had it put in with practical applications like she gives, they give, for golf.

01:45:35.000 You know, you think of golf as like, oh, I can be willy-nilly out here.

01:45:38.000 I can be fun or I can be aggressive or I can be competitive or whatever the hell.

01:45:42.000 All that stuff is...

01:45:44.000 It's real.

01:45:46.000 That's emotion kind of thing.

01:45:47.000 But if you're not in the body, good luck.

01:45:51.000 Right.

01:45:52.000 And it's only luck then.

01:45:53.000 Well, there's...

01:45:54.000 There's a great joy in things that take you away from the rest of the world because they require so much of your attention.

01:46:01.000 That's what I get out of pool, and that's what I get out of archery too.

01:46:04.000 I practice archery, but there's things that require so much focus while you're doing them, and you have to be in your body.

01:46:12.000 You have to be synchronized.

01:46:14.000 I would imagine archery would be one of the more challenging ones.

01:46:17.000 Very challenging.

01:46:18.000 It's very challenging because...

01:46:21.000 You're supposed to have as little movement as possible upon the execution of the shot.

01:46:26.000 So there's all these strategies.

01:46:28.000 They started televising it lately.

01:46:29.000 It's really cool to watch.

01:46:31.000 It's very cool to watch.

01:46:33.000 Cameras are right on their face and just the torso, just like this.

01:46:37.000 And you're like...

01:46:38.000 God dang, that's beautiful.

01:46:39.000 That's as good a close-up as any Robin Hood movie ever had.

01:46:42.000 It's just great.

01:46:44.000 No, I love watching it.

01:46:45.000 I watch it on YouTube all the time.

01:46:46.000 There's these Las Vegas shootouts where they have three targets, and they have 30 different shots.

01:46:53.000 So they're trying to get an X 30 different times, and they're standing next to the best archers in the world.

01:47:01.000 Everyone's at probably like 20 meters, and they're all just focusing, like dead still, completely.

01:47:07.000 Really calm, focusing, focusing.

01:47:09.000 What's that?

01:47:10.000 Where do you find that?

01:47:11.000 Oh, you can find it.

01:47:12.000 Like, go to Lancaster Archery, Vegas.

01:47:18.000 And they have what they call a Vegas face.

01:47:20.000 So a Vegas face is three targets.

01:47:23.000 Do people watch that live?

01:47:23.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:47:24.000 But they've got to have like big screens because you can't see the faces from a distance, right?

01:47:28.000 No.

01:47:28.000 And you don't want to get between the arrows, of course.

01:47:30.000 No, you definitely don't.

01:47:31.000 People bring binoculars.

01:47:32.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:47:33.000 All the archers have binoculars and they all pull them up after each shot because they're looking for precise distances and then they'll make slight adjustments on their scope and their sight and move and then they'll take a breath.

01:47:46.000 But it's...

01:47:46.000 So do you have one of those Massivo?

01:47:48.000 Yes, this is exactly what it's like.

01:47:50.000 Yeah, those things don't even look fair.

01:47:51.000 So these guys are all on this line and they're all firing and the amount of pressure is insane.

01:47:58.000 Because, really, the guy who makes money out of this thing is the guy who wins first place.

01:48:02.000 Everything else is not so good.

01:48:04.000 There's not a lot of money in archery.

01:48:06.000 Look at the audience.

01:48:06.000 That is like about 60 guys.

01:48:08.000 Yeah, not a lot of audience, right?

01:48:09.000 Yeah, it's not a crowd-pleasing.

01:48:10.000 So this is just for real, complete archery fanatics who are absolutely lost in this connection between your mind, your body, and the flight of the arrow.

01:48:22.000 The mystical flight of the arrow.

01:48:23.000 That's interesting.

01:48:24.000 Can you go back and freeze that?

01:48:26.000 There.

01:48:27.000 Can you lose the line on the bottom?

01:48:29.000 So that's just interesting to me to look at their weight balance.

01:48:35.000 Just to look at who's on half his front foot.

01:48:39.000 Mm-hmm.

01:48:40.000 So it's interesting.

01:48:40.000 They have a little bit more weight on their back foot.

01:48:42.000 Is that right?

01:48:43.000 Well, we're catching this in mid-draw.

01:48:45.000 So he might settle.

01:48:47.000 Yeah, see that guy that you were looking at who was like that?

01:48:50.000 That's got Brazier on his back.

01:48:51.000 Watch.

01:48:51.000 He'll settle.

01:48:52.000 So he'll draw.

01:48:54.000 And as he draws, he arches back.

01:48:55.000 And now watch.

01:48:57.000 He'll settle forward.

01:48:57.000 See, he was settling as the angle changed of the camera shot.

01:49:02.000 But they want to ideally be about 50-50.

01:49:04.000 And you're just staying calm.

01:49:08.000 Keeping it as steady as possible.

01:49:10.000 Is that guy in the wheelchair shooting too?

01:49:11.000 Yes, yes.

01:49:13.000 There's a guy that shoots with just his feet.

01:49:15.000 The guy who doesn't have arms.

01:49:16.000 And he's unbelievably accurate.

01:49:19.000 I think I've seen that guy.

01:49:20.000 Yeah, he shoots with his toes.

01:49:21.000 So what these guys are doing is it's just a perfect balance of technique and focus and attention.

01:49:30.000 And they're actually trying to get what's called a surprise shot.

01:49:34.000 They're not...

01:49:36.000 executing the shot like you would like a rifle trigger most of these guys use what's called a hinge and so that's what they're going for they're looking for it so with a hinge you don't you don't You don't make the release go off like with a button, where you press a button.

01:49:52.000 It's just a rotation of the handle, and you don't know when it's going to go off.

01:49:57.000 So you draw it back like this.

01:49:58.000 So you're not letting go with your fingers?

01:50:00.000 No.

01:50:01.000 You have a metal release in your hand that has a hook, and the hook is attached to a sear.

01:50:07.000 By just twerking your wrist?

01:50:09.000 By rotating it?

01:50:10.000 It breaks.

01:50:11.000 And so the hook breaks.

01:50:14.000 Or some of them use a thumb, like that guy with the yellow and black, that guy.

01:50:19.000 So he's got a thumb trigger.

01:50:20.000 So what he's doing is he's setting the trigger.

01:50:23.000 The barrel, the trigger, right where his thumb is, and he's just using the pulling of his arm to make it go off.

01:50:29.000 He's not executing it with his thumb.

01:50:31.000 Now, there's a small select group.

01:50:34.000 So that's why they all look different on the release.

01:50:35.000 Yes, but their arms all fly backwards.

01:50:40.000 If you see how their arm moves backwards, that's indicative of a surprise shot.

01:50:45.000 That means they're executing it perfectly.

01:50:48.000 So the surprise is that they don't know when it's going to go.

01:50:50.000 Exactly.

01:50:51.000 They're just executing the test.

01:50:52.000 Technique, which is the pull with the back muscles.

01:50:55.000 You're pulling with your rhomboids.

01:50:57.000 And then it slowly goes off.

01:50:59.000 See, like that guy with the hat, the black hat.

01:51:01.000 Watch.

01:51:02.000 See his fingers?

01:51:02.000 How it's curling?

01:51:03.000 See how it goes off?

01:51:04.000 So that's just from his hand curling that's making the shot go off.

01:51:08.000 But they get it to the position or the area where it's going to go.

01:51:12.000 Yes.

01:51:13.000 And they've got to be right.

01:51:14.000 They've got to be...

01:51:15.000 Yes.

01:51:16.000 Poised forward.

01:51:17.000 But the idea is if you think about it going off and you make it go off, there's some sort of a recoil.

01:51:24.000 So there's some sort of an anticipation of that recoil.

01:51:27.000 And when you're shooting that precisely, that anticipation of that recoil might make a difference of an inch or two left or right.

01:51:33.000 Yes, that tension.

01:51:34.000 So you try to not anticipate.

01:51:37.000 Yes.

01:51:38.000 When you are doing that, you do not think about anything else.

01:51:43.000 It clears your mind.

01:51:45.000 When you are just concentrating on that target, you cannot think about your bills.

01:51:51.000 And so you do it.

01:51:52.000 Yes.

01:51:52.000 And when a thought does come into your head, you don't hit the target.

01:51:56.000 Yes, but it doesn't come in your head.

01:51:58.000 It can't.

01:51:58.000 It's too hard.

01:52:00.000 The process of aiming is so engrossing when you lock in place and you're aiming and then you're pulling back with the shot.

01:52:09.000 Like, you're all in.

01:52:11.000 You're all there.

01:52:12.000 Especially if you're good.

01:52:14.000 If you're good, that is the only thing you're thinking of.

01:52:16.000 And there's a moving meditation aspect to it, a cleansing of your mind.

01:52:22.000 Your worries go away.

01:52:24.000 Your thoughts, the things that are bugging you, and I've got to do this, and I've got to call that guy back, and all of it goes away.

01:52:30.000 Because it's so engrossing.

01:52:32.000 It requires so much of you.

01:52:34.000 So how do you affect that yourself?

01:52:35.000 How do you move that away from the incidental?

01:52:41.000 Thoughts that pop in.

01:52:42.000 Well, it's just the difficulty of it.

01:52:45.000 Yeah.

01:52:46.000 Yeah, it's the difficulty of it actually sort of facilitates your meditative mindset.

01:52:52.000 Because if you're going to do it right, there's no other way to do it.

01:52:55.000 You literally can't be thinking about other things while you're doing it.

01:52:58.000 Well, it's not like golf.

01:53:00.000 Like if you're thinking about what you're going to pick up on the way home.

01:53:03.000 Exactly.

01:53:04.000 You're not going to hit a good golf.

01:53:04.000 Same as pool.

01:53:06.000 When, you know, I play pool at a pretty high level, like, I bet that book would be very beneficial to me.

01:53:11.000 I bet there's some techniques and strategies of how to focus yourself and completely remove yourself from the rest of the world and just think about this mind-body connection and the execution of this thing that you're trying to do.

01:53:26.000 Alright, I'm going to try to do that.

01:53:30.000 I know I, you know, I don't play enough pool.

01:53:35.000 But I had to shoot some pools in Groundhog Day, so I got with a guy who's a pool expert, and he just gave me drills to do.

01:53:44.000 Do you remember his name?

01:53:45.000 No.

01:53:45.000 But if he remembers, he should say hi.

01:53:48.000 Anyway, he taught me a bunch of things, and I'm still very disappointed because when we actually shot the scene, I think I made...

01:53:56.000 I think I sank...

01:53:58.000 I think I shot...

01:54:00.000 I think I sank like nine balls, seven balls, eight balls, and three shots.

01:54:05.000 And I went, we got that?

01:54:09.000 And the center of tower was like, let's set it up.

01:54:14.000 I'll set up a different shot.

01:54:15.000 I said, what are you talking about?

01:54:16.000 He had half of the table.

01:54:19.000 Oh, no.

01:54:22.000 All right.

01:54:23.000 I'm going to take a leak again.

01:54:24.000 Okay.

01:54:25.000 You want to wrap it up?

01:54:25.000 We can wrap it up.

01:54:26.000 No, that's okay.

01:54:27.000 Okay.

01:54:27.000 All right.

01:54:28.000 Take a leak and come back.

01:54:29.000 All right.

01:54:30.000 I keep asking them any suggestions.

01:54:32.000 They say, well, tell some stories.

01:54:34.000 You should never ask for suggestions.

01:54:36.000 So where do you come from?

01:54:38.000 I was born in New Jersey.

01:54:40.000 Went to high school in Boston.

01:54:41.000 Lived all over the country.

01:54:43.000 Lived in San Francisco for a while when I was a kid.

01:54:46.000 Florida.

01:54:46.000 Were you in the military or something?

01:54:48.000 No.

01:54:49.000 Mother got divorced.

01:54:51.000 Married my stepfather.

01:54:52.000 He was going to school.

01:54:53.000 Went to San Francisco for that.

01:54:56.000 Then Florida.

01:54:57.000 And then eventually Boston.

01:55:00.000 Well, that's pretty good.

01:55:01.000 I mean, I think I always wanted to live in San Francisco.

01:55:04.000 Well, I was in San Francisco during the Vietnam War in the height of the hippie days when I was a little kid.

01:55:08.000 It was pretty wild.

01:55:10.000 It was a very interesting time to be there, you know?

01:55:13.000 It was a crazy place.

01:55:15.000 Yeah, well, that's what Hunter was talking about, I think.

01:55:17.000 Yeah.

01:55:18.000 Yeah, my brother was there, too.

01:55:19.000 He went to school out there at St. Mary's in Moraga.

01:55:22.000 Oh, okay.

01:55:23.000 But it turned out he was spending a lot of time in Berkeley.

01:55:26.000 Yeah.

01:55:27.000 He wasn't doing that much studying.

01:55:30.000 But what a life he had out there.

01:55:32.000 What a fantastic time to have been there.

01:55:34.000 And my other friend went to high school at that time, somewhere around there, and I envied that.

01:55:40.000 And I really like San Francisco, and I was there recently.

01:55:46.000 I saw Father Guido Sarducci.

01:55:50.000 Oh, wow.

01:55:51.000 And had dinner with him and Roman Coppola, and we went to an old place called...

01:55:59.000 Like macaroni or something like that?

01:56:01.000 Old Italian place.

01:56:02.000 And it was really delightful.

01:56:04.000 I just love San Francisco.

01:56:07.000 And I have friends who were like, and we started talking about politics a long time ago.

01:56:12.000 Like, for political reasons, they say, oh, San Francisco, they've ruined San Francisco.

01:56:16.000 And so I was there.

01:56:18.000 And I know there's homeless people in San Francisco now, lots of them.

01:56:22.000 And there's homeless people in Los Angeles and Santa Monica and anywhere that is warm.

01:56:26.000 Yeah.

01:56:28.000 And California is the most popular state, but I don't think it's a political choice.

01:56:33.000 I mean, I think, isn't it, I don't know the stats, but these people don't, it's more of a mental health thing, I think.

01:56:42.000 It's definitely a mental health issue.

01:56:43.000 So it's not anybody's politics that are making people crazy.

01:56:46.000 Well, it's...

01:56:47.000 But it's not making people live on the street.

01:56:50.000 I'm sticking up for San Francisco.

01:56:52.000 San Francisco survived the beatniks. 0.99

01:56:57.000 It survived the hippies.

01:56:59.000 It survived the earthquake.

01:57:01.000 It survived AIDS. It survived everything.

01:57:04.000 It's like a resilient, extraordinary place.

01:57:08.000 It's still got a lot of extraordinary aspects to it. 0.95

01:57:10.000 The problem is they kind of encourage people to sleep on the streets and shit anywhere they want and they didn't do anything about it. 0.53

01:57:17.000 Do you really think they encourage people? 0.98

01:57:19.000 Well, they definitely make it financially viable for them to do it.

01:57:22.000 They give them money to do it. 0.99

01:57:24.000 Well, that sounds like they're paying them the shit on the street. 0.99

01:57:27.000 No, they're paying them so that they don't have to be poor or homeless. 0.99

01:57:32.000 I mean, they have a tent and they'll help them.

01:57:34.000 They'll subsidize this existence. 0.94

01:57:36.000 What they need is more mental health care.

01:57:38.000 It's a mental health issue.

01:57:39.000 It's drug addiction and mental health.

01:57:41.000 That's the real problem.

01:57:42.000 And when you don't address it and then you just allow people to camp any way that you want, you're almost sort of encouraging mental health.

01:57:50.000 Problems to be everywhere all throughout and just be throughout the entire city.

01:57:54.000 It's just a lack of empathy for the people. 0.99

01:57:57.000 If you're empathetic for them, you don't let them just camp out and shit on the street. 0.98

01:58:02.000 What you do is you try to say, obviously, a real problem. 0.98

01:58:04.000 This needs to be addressed for the greater good of the city and for these people.

01:58:08.000 They need mental health care.

01:58:10.000 They need addiction care.

01:58:12.000 It's a real problem that needs to be addressed.

01:58:14.000 You can't just... 0.98

01:58:16.000 Leave them out in the street and let them do whatever they want and become a hazard for everybody else, then it makes the city kind of fucked up. 0.97

01:58:22.000 Well, I don't know what the... 0.91

01:58:23.000 I mean, you know, when you talk, when you speak, it sounds like more of a political choice.

01:58:29.000 No.

01:58:30.000 Someone's saying, well, it sounds like you're saying they're being... 1.00

01:58:33.000 You know, paid to shit on the streets and become mentally ill. 1.00

01:58:37.000 No, I'm not saying they're being paid to shit on the streets. 1.00

01:58:38.000 They are mentally ill. 1.00

01:58:39.000 I always felt like mental illness happened first before living on the street. 1.00

01:58:42.000 Unquestionably.

01:58:42.000 It's all during the Reagan administration when they opened up the mental health institutes and just let people out in the streets.

01:58:47.000 Well, it started before that in New York.

01:58:49.000 And that was my experience in New York was like Rockefeller, way back when, and I could be wrong, but this is how it was attributed, sort of opened up the mental, closed up the mental health hospitals and pushed These many, many, many people out on the streets that had nowhere to go.

01:59:09.000 And it wasn't a poverty situation, although it looks like it when you look at it.

01:59:15.000 It's really a mental health situation.

01:59:17.000 And a great number of these people have no interest in going into a place.

01:59:23.000 They would just as soon live on the street. 0.84

01:59:25.000 Their life is like an interior monologue that they can't control.

01:59:30.000 And living in a home is no different than living on the street.

01:59:33.000 The thing is still going on.

01:59:34.000 The conversation is still going on inside the brain.

01:59:37.000 But there has to be a solution for it.

01:59:39.000 Well, okay.

01:59:40.000 So I don't disagree that there has to be a solution.

01:59:43.000 But I don't think that people are...

01:59:46.000 This is sort of like where, you know, I'd like to think about, let's not talk politics.

01:59:51.000 Let's agree with what we can agree on.

01:59:54.000 So that solution is like, this is where the great minds...

01:59:57.000 Of California or the United States need to come together and say, okay, these are, why don't we solve these problems that are common to every state has a city that has X number of people living on the street, whether it's Yankton, you know, whether it's, you know, Minneapolis, whether it's, you know, Louisville, whatever.

02:00:22.000 Everyone's got like a street scene situation that's rough like that.

02:00:27.000 And it's hard to say let's – you know, you say there's got to be a solution.

02:00:32.000 Where is that going to come from and who's going to believe it if it comes from this direction or that direction or this side or that side?

02:00:40.000 How do you like evaporate the walls of separation and say like how do we get the right people with the right minds to solve these?

02:00:53.000 Questions.

02:00:54.000 You know, these are real things.

02:00:55.000 And people argue about them.

02:00:57.000 I mean, you and I are arguing, but we're talking about it.

02:01:01.000 Yeah.

02:01:01.000 And neither one of us is sleeping on the street.

02:01:03.000 Right.

02:01:04.000 We both feel compassion for it, you know, empathy for it.

02:01:08.000 But how do you get people that are far removed, and we could say we're far removed from it, to, like, allow...

02:01:19.000 The solution to take place.

02:01:21.000 From one side or the other.

02:01:22.000 From one side, any side.

02:01:23.000 Who gives it to him?

02:01:23.000 Who's got it right?

02:01:24.000 Well, it has to be a completely bipartisan thing.

02:01:27.000 We have to look at it in terms of the health of human beings in our community.

02:01:31.000 This country is supposed to be our community.

02:01:33.000 These people that are on the street, they are sad, sick people in our community.

02:01:38.000 And some real effort has to be taken to try to change that instead of just enable them to keep doing it.

02:01:43.000 That's all I'm saying.

02:01:45.000 I just don't think that the solution is let them camp wherever they want. 1.00

02:01:47.000 Let them shit in the streets. 1.00

02:01:49.000 There's no argument to what you're saying. 1.00

02:01:50.000 There's no argument.

02:01:52.000 So you were in this situation.

02:01:54.000 You had this, people call it a platform or a place where you invite people to come here that can speak to lots of people.

02:02:07.000 How many people watch your show?

02:02:09.000 A lot.

02:02:10.000 So there's lots of people watching your show.

02:02:14.000 When there's people that make sense, you hear it.

02:02:17.000 It rings a bell.

02:02:17.000 It sounds like that.

02:02:20.000 I wish I knew the answer to solving these things.

02:02:24.000 And occasionally, like I say, you see people who are these problem solvers.

02:02:28.000 And the problem solvers come.

02:02:32.000 But people want to choose their own problem solver.

02:02:36.000 There's also money in being a problem solver.

02:02:38.000 That's the problem.

02:02:39.000 One of the big parts of the problem in...

02:02:42.000 California in particular is that there's an enormous budget to deal with the homeless.

02:02:46.000 So you have these people that work in these departments that are making quarter million dollars a year that are...

02:02:53.000 Just working on the homeless problem, which keeps getting worse every year.

02:02:57.000 There's no incentive to fix anything or change anything, and it's a bunch of bureaucracy. 0.97

02:03:01.000 There's a lot of bullshit that gets involved in the business. 0.89

02:03:05.000 A buddy of mine is a lawyer who went to San Francisco, and he was disturbed by it all. 0.99

02:03:09.000 He was like, this is so crazy.

02:03:10.000 What is missing?

02:03:11.000 Do we need more funding?

02:03:13.000 And they're like, no.

02:03:14.000 This guy explained to him, no.

02:03:15.000 They literally have an incentive to keep the homeless problem.

02:03:19.000 There's an enormous number of people that are making a fantastic living in dealing with the homeless issue.

02:03:25.000 Who's making money on the homeless? 0.88

02:03:26.000 There's a giant list of people.

02:03:27.000 We could pull it up if you want to see.

02:03:29.000 We don't need to call them out, but there's a bunch of people.

02:03:31.000 Just tell me, who makes money on the homeless?

02:03:34.000 The people that are involved in these organizations that are dealing with the homeless, whether it's in Los Angeles or in San Francisco.

02:03:41.000 You mean, are they...

02:03:43.000 Like government?

02:03:44.000 Yes.

02:03:44.000 It's government jobs, yes.

02:03:46.000 It's all funded by the state.

02:03:48.000 And there's real jobs, like real money.

02:03:50.000 And nothing gets done, nothing changes.

02:03:52.000 In fact, it gets worse every year.

02:03:54.000 Something needs to be done that shows results.

02:03:56.000 What is that?

02:03:57.000 I think it's got to be compassionate.

02:03:59.000 It's got to be something that both the left and the right can agree to.

02:04:01.000 So I'm trying to follow you.

02:04:04.000 God knows I'm trying.

02:04:05.000 Are you having a hard time?

02:04:06.000 No, I think we were talking earlier about...

02:04:12.000 The agents versus the architects or something like that used a word that explained the people who are coming up with this sort of thing.

02:04:20.000 I was watching something, and I've really tried to avoid watching the news lately, but I saw someone talking about, and it was someone that works.

02:04:28.000 You say the word bureaucracy, and it's a loaded word.

02:04:33.000 We all hate bureaucracy.

02:04:34.000 There's just a word of it.

02:04:36.000 It gives you a creepy feeling.

02:04:38.000 Frustrating word.

02:04:38.000 Yeah.

02:04:39.000 And so, you know, it's like being on hold for Amtrak or whatever the hell it is, you know?

02:04:43.000 You know, there's someone, you know...

02:04:46.000 Oh, please, God, come back.

02:04:51.000 Okay, so...

02:04:52.000 Please, God, come back.

02:04:54.000 So the idea that...

02:04:56.000 And so this person was talking about the cuts that are going to come and the talk about eliminating a bureaucracy.

02:05:03.000 And I don't know what...

02:05:06.000 No, that's not what this person was talking about.

02:05:08.000 Oh, you're talking about a different person.

02:05:09.000 It's a different person.

02:05:10.000 I don't know what your person is.

02:05:11.000 This is my person.

02:05:12.000 My person is saying the bureaucracy gets sort of like fed from above somehow or other.

02:05:21.000 It's fed by these people that are the architects of one side or the other.

02:05:25.000 But the actual bureaucracy includes the people that can solve the problem.

02:05:30.000 Like, encased in this bureaucracy are people that can solve the problems.

02:05:35.000 And that if you just sort of – I'm not saying this is the case, but if you sort of just like zip a bunch of the bureaucracy out, you run the risk of zipping out some of the people that actually have the brains to do the solutions.

02:05:50.000 And what this person said was the solution to the bureaucracy is within the bureaucracy that is finding the people that know what can be done because they really do have the data.

02:06:06.000 They really do work.

02:06:08.000 They actually do show up for work.

02:06:10.000 And they actually have the data on how to do this thing.

02:06:13.000 But because it keeps being fed from above all the time, there's just all this extra debris and noise that keeps coming down that causes more clutter and more splitting and more something.

02:06:29.000 Yeah.

02:06:29.000 So, you know, I'm not going to suggest that I could solve the question of bureaucracy today, but I think there's something about what we have.

02:06:39.000 We have the people.

02:06:42.000 You know, I'm going to go off on tangents now, but I always kind of had an objection to Tom Brokaw's book, The Greatest Generation, because I thought, damn it, that's not my generation.

02:06:53.000 How do they get that?

02:06:54.000 You know, but I did start reading some of it recently.

02:06:58.000 His credit, he's finding people that are very singular in that generation.

02:07:05.000 Which generation is he referring to?

02:07:06.000 Well, he's talking about the generation that won World War II. Okay.

02:07:10.000 And that generation was formed by the Great Depression.

02:07:15.000 That was part of what they had.

02:07:17.000 And then they had a world war that lasted five years.

02:07:20.000 And it's really hard for people of a certain age to understand.

02:07:24.000 You think you have problems with your relationship.

02:07:27.000 Have your lover go away for five years and see how well you're doing upon that person's return.

02:07:35.000 See what the hell that's like for five years.

02:07:37.000 And like, you didn't answer my letter?

02:07:39.000 You know, my letter?

02:07:41.000 Your letter?

02:07:42.000 What letter?

02:07:43.000 You know, your letter never came.

02:07:45.000 I was under fire.

02:07:46.000 Whatever it was.

02:07:47.000 And then they come back shell-shocked.

02:07:48.000 And then you come back with shell-shocked on top of it. 0.51

02:07:51.000 And then back then, the sort of, kind of, I don't want to say a macho thing, but...

02:07:55.000 Back then, people just didn't want to talk about it, which to me is part of what created the hippie generation, was kids couldn't get their parents to talk about anything that they thought mattered.

02:08:09.000 What their parents were talking about was like, huh?

02:08:12.000 Wait, what's so wrong about peace, love, and understanding?

02:08:17.000 Right.

02:08:18.000 So and they couldn't get to that because even the idea of peace was a completely different concept to someone that lived through a world war.

02:08:28.000 Yeah.

02:08:29.000 Or lived through a depression.

02:08:30.000 So these kids were like, I don't even understand who these people are.

02:08:34.000 I know I'm their flesh and blood, but I don't know that.

02:08:37.000 I don't know what the hell they know and why they're this way.

02:08:40.000 But he chose people that lived a very intentional purpose during that very, very difficult, challenging time where they just went, I don't know what I don't know.

02:08:53.000 I don't know what all this is, but I do what I do know.

02:08:56.000 I do know what I do know and stay through that.

02:08:59.000 And that's, I guess that, I don't know how this relates me to this idea of bureaucracy, but people that do know the facts have got to stay with the facts, even in the face of, like, all the blunderbussing above about, you know, there's this and there's that.

02:09:16.000 You've got to be really dedicated to what you do know.

02:09:22.000 And realize that there's lots that you don't know.

02:09:26.000 But if you give up what you know in the name of jostling over here, then there's even more lost.

02:09:38.000 Yeah.

02:09:39.000 No, I agree.

02:09:41.000 And I think most people who get involved, particularly if they get involved in something like Homeless or any charitable organization, most of the people who get involved aren't doing it cynically.

02:09:52.000 They're not doing it to get that big paycheck.

02:09:54.000 Their initial reason for being involved in something like that is to help.

02:09:57.000 The problem is sometimes when they realize it's just a big clog and you're not going to be able to do any meaningful good, then things get weird.

02:10:08.000 And then you just sort of exist off of this system that's not doing anybody any good.

02:10:12.000 This is his argument about why so many people are working on this and nothing's getting better.

02:10:16.000 So who's this one?

02:10:18.000 My friend Coleon Noir.

02:10:19.000 This is my friend who's a lawyer who went to San Francisco and saw this.

02:10:25.000 And had a conversation with someone who's actually in government in San Francisco and was explaining what the problem actually is.

02:10:33.000 And the government, people say it's the government?

02:10:36.000 No, they just say there's no incentive.

02:10:38.000 There's no incentive for them to do a better job.

02:10:42.000 And there's a very compassionate perspective in the city.

02:10:46.000 They're very kind people, and they don't want to take these homeless people and remove them. 0.95

02:10:53.000 That sort of suicidal empathy that they have for the people in their city is causing this rash of tents everywhere and crime and, you know, you have to leave your fucking car unlocked otherwise they're going to smash your windows. 0.57

02:11:07.000 That's what his perspective is. 0.92

02:11:09.000 There's no real incentive to do anything different.

02:11:13.000 Because these people are still getting paid to keep it the way it is.

02:11:17.000 The amount of money they make is not based on how much good they do.

02:11:21.000 So if they're financially, if they're incentivized to, like, you get paid more if more people clean up, seek treatment, get on medication, get to a mental health institution, if you can show some sort of progress, it'll affect how much money you get.

02:11:39.000 And vice-a-verse.

02:11:40.000 If you have no progress and nothing gets done and the problem actually gets worse, perhaps you're not doing a good job.

02:11:47.000 Well, that sort of makes sense, doesn't it?

02:11:49.000 It does.

02:11:50.000 You get results.

02:11:50.000 Yes.

02:11:51.000 You get encouraged by getting more money.

02:11:53.000 Yeah.

02:11:54.000 So does this remind you of anything?

02:11:56.000 It reminds me of everything.

02:11:58.000 It reminds me of the government itself.

02:12:00.000 What does it remind you of?

02:12:02.000 Well, I feel like there's something hanging over our heads here that's like this situation, and maybe it's just a continuous situation of like a world that gets more and more people all the time, and more people want to have a voice, and there's just more people shouting all at once, and there's not quite the same kind of agreement.

02:12:24.000 We don't have like an ideal that we're all working for.

02:12:28.000 You know, I guess, not to like cheat, but...

02:12:31.000 You know, the greatest generation, they had to fight a war to maybe save the sort of structure of Western civilization.

02:12:40.000 Right.

02:12:41.000 There is that argument, you know.

02:12:42.000 Right.

02:12:43.000 That if the Nazi Party had defeated England, you know, life would be different. 0.82

02:12:52.000 Life would have been different, you know.

02:12:54.000 And if that kind of dictatorship kind of world had gone further, you know.

02:13:01.000 It would have been a different world.

02:13:04.000 It wouldn't have grown the way it is.

02:13:06.000 But now it's grown.

02:13:07.000 There's this freedom.

02:13:08.000 The war was fought.

02:13:09.000 I believe there was a great quote in one of those books like there's no such thing as a bad piece or something like that.

02:13:19.000 There's all kinds of different.

02:13:20.000 But I feel like there's no sort of idea that people can agree on that's The source of like a reason for our being.

02:13:33.000 Well, it's a very uniting thing to be all together against a common enemy that is real, like World War II. Like there's a real purpose to life.

02:13:45.000 People understand that this is a very important mission.

02:13:48.000 This is something that, unfortunately, it's one of the best ways to unite people.

02:13:53.000 Is a threat from the outside.

02:13:56.000 That's all we've come up with.

02:13:56.000 Well, that's what happened after 9-11.

02:13:59.000 Do you remember 9-11?

02:14:00.000 Everywhere in L.A., people were driving around with American flags on their car.

02:14:04.000 I'll never forget 9-11.

02:14:05.000 What it was like to walk down the streets of New York after 9-11.

02:14:08.000 There was nothing like I've ever experienced in my whole life.

02:14:10.000 Right.

02:14:11.000 It was bizarre.

02:14:12.000 But it was also very united.

02:14:14.000 Like, people were together.

02:14:15.000 It was.

02:14:15.000 People looked.

02:14:15.000 Into each other's eyes.

02:14:17.000 You walk by someone on the street, and every person on the street looked right in your eyes.

02:14:22.000 And that lasted for weeks.

02:14:24.000 I mean, people in New York walk with their head down, they look like, they're reading a paper.

02:14:29.000 But people just looking by like, okay, we're in this.

02:14:33.000 Yeah, together.

02:14:34.000 And I think...

02:14:35.000 Some people actually obviously hated the act of what happened, but loved the way people reacted and how people felt with each other.

02:14:45.000 It did feel different.

02:14:46.000 New York City felt friendly.

02:14:48.000 It felt united.

02:14:49.000 It felt like people were proud to be American.

02:14:52.000 We were all together.

02:14:53.000 There's bad people out there.

02:14:54.000 They did this to us, but we're all together.

02:14:57.000 Well, OK, so what we have here with the situation of like just using San Francisco as the idea is like it's just a gentler.

02:15:05.000 Version of something that we could all say, this is something that we have to go to war about.

02:15:11.000 Yeah, or it's a task.

02:15:13.000 Any kind of a problem that we have as a group that we all are affected by or care about.

02:15:19.000 Well, it's too easy to ignore.

02:15:21.000 It's too easy to just say, oh, there's the tents, let's go this way.

02:15:25.000 The reality is the health of the community, it's dependent upon the health of the lowest members of the community on the social rung.

02:15:33.000 The lowest members are the people that are sick.

02:15:35.000 And if you don't take care of them, if you don't take care of the people that are mentally ill, that are homeless, that are addicted to drugs, that are on the street, that are desolate, that don't have friends, don't have love, don't have structure, don't have anything that they can call upon, horrible childhood, the whole deal.

02:15:48.000 If you don't...

02:15:49.000 If you don't look at them, then your society's sick.

02:15:51.000 Because the foundation of the society is the people.

02:15:54.000 If you've got a group of people that are part of your community and you're completely ignoring their plight, that's not good for anybody.

02:16:00.000 That's not good for big business.

02:16:02.000 That's not good for common folk.

02:16:04.000 That's not good for people in the neighborhood.

02:16:06.000 It's not good for anybody.

02:16:07.000 And it's gotten so far.

02:16:09.000 Because it's so big now, the problem is so enormous, it's almost too big to tackle.

02:16:13.000 It's almost like, okay, you're dealing with LA, you're dealing with 100,000 people living on the street. 0.99

02:16:19.000 That's so many fucking people. 0.99

02:16:20.000 That's the entire population of Boulder. 1.00

02:16:23.000 That's Boulder, Colorado, in tents on the street in LA. That's crazy.

02:16:27.000 It's almost too big.

02:16:29.000 And I talked to Mayor Adler, who was the mayor of Austin at the time when I first moved here, and he was...

02:16:35.000 He had a bunch of plans in place to help the homeless people, and they did an amazing job, because it got pretty bad here during the pandemic.

02:16:42.000 I remember there being homeless here, yeah.

02:16:44.000 They got hotels, they put people up, they put together programs, they got people jobs.

02:16:50.000 There's a company that we've had, what is his name?

02:16:54.000 Alan, that we had in here?

02:16:55.000 Alan Graham?

02:16:57.000 From Loaves and Fishes, I went and visited his community that he set up.

02:17:02.000 He has this community where they build houses for these people.

02:17:06.000 They bought an enormous piece of land outside of Austin, and he sets up work programs for these people, gives them a sense of purpose.

02:17:14.000 It's an amazing place to be.

02:17:15.000 They're doing art and selling art.

02:17:17.000 It's working?

02:17:18.000 Yes, it's working.

02:17:19.000 Yeah, I mean, it doesn't work with everybody, but it works with a lot of them.

02:17:22.000 And these people, they have a sense of community.

02:17:24.000 They all live in a safe area.

02:17:26.000 And we walked around.

02:17:28.000 I brought my kids.

02:17:29.000 We walked around there.

02:17:30.000 It was like the whole thing was really nice.

02:17:32.000 It was really wonderful.

02:17:33.000 It was really cool what he's doing.

02:17:37.000 So that guy, his plan, his way of working needs to obviously get out there.

02:17:42.000 It's got to get around.

02:17:44.000 He lives there.

02:17:47.000 And this is a guy who has money.

02:17:48.000 He lives in the community with those people.

02:17:51.000 This man must be deputized.

02:17:52.000 Well, he's a Christian, like a real Christian, like in the greatest sense of the word.

02:17:56.000 Like he's a guy who really believes in reaching out to people and helping people.

02:18:00.000 Yeah, this is Alan right here.

02:18:02.000 He's just a wonderful guy, like a really beautiful person, and lives with these people.

02:18:07.000 They're his neighbors, and they're constantly bringing people in, and he has all these different programs that people can sign up for to learn arts and crafts and learn how to sell things that you've made, and it's really cool.

02:18:21.000 And, you know, I mean, he's doing his part.

02:18:24.000 It's small in relation to, like, the problem of San Francisco.

02:18:29.000 But you need people like that that really dedicate themselves to it.

02:18:33.000 I've heard of Loaves and Fishes.

02:18:35.000 I didn't know all of this about it.

02:18:37.000 It's pretty amazing.

02:18:38.000 It's a pretty amazing place that he's got.

02:18:42.000 And he's expanding it.

02:18:43.000 They're building new ones right now.

02:18:45.000 So there's these small houses that these people live in and they all have like a community kitchen where they can go and barbecue and grill outside.

02:18:52.000 And there's an arts and crafts center.

02:18:54.000 These people, they make cool chess pieces and they sell them.

02:18:57.000 They make paintings and they sell them jewelry.

02:18:59.000 They're doing all these different things and it gives them a sense of purpose.

02:19:02.000 You've got to get this guy to San Francisco.

02:19:04.000 Yes.

02:19:04.000 Well, you need more people like him is what it is.

02:19:06.000 It's just he's a very unique guy.

02:19:08.000 There must be people like him.

02:19:10.000 But, I mean, it's a lot.

02:19:12.000 I mean, he lives with them.

02:19:14.000 I mean, he's in the community.

02:19:15.000 He has one of those little houses in this, you know, giant area filled with people.

02:19:20.000 And he's with them for encouragement.

02:19:22.000 And, you know, it's a beautiful thing.

02:19:25.000 It sounds really amazing.

02:19:26.000 Yeah.

02:19:27.000 It's beautiful.

02:19:29.000 Okay.

02:19:30.000 Should we wrap it up, Bill Murray?

02:19:31.000 Yeah, okay.

02:19:32.000 Sorry I'll keep you so long.

02:19:33.000 No!

02:19:33.000 It was amazing.

02:19:34.000 It's an honor to meet you.

02:19:35.000 I've really enjoyed it very much.

02:19:38.000 I appreciate talking to you.

02:19:39.000 Thank you, and thanks for the shirt, and thanks for the shorts.

02:19:41.000 Yeah, well...

02:19:42.000 I'm going to wear those.

02:19:44.000 Okay.

02:19:45.000 But, you know, I will just say that those shorts are very...

02:19:49.000 They're forgiving shorts.

02:19:51.000 So if you've had a big meal...

02:19:52.000 Good.

02:19:52.000 Beautiful.

02:19:53.000 Yeah, they still fit you.

02:19:53.000 I like that.

02:19:54.000 They're good.

02:19:56.000 Can people buy these?

02:19:57.000 Can they?

02:19:58.000 Are they available for sale?

02:19:59.000 Yeah, yeah, they sell them.

02:20:00.000 Where do they go?

02:20:01.000 It's called William Murray Golf.

02:20:03.000 They sell them online a lot, and I know they sell them in golf shops some places and some stores.

02:20:11.000 That's it.

02:20:13.000 Beautiful.

02:20:14.000 That's it.

02:20:15.000 Look at that guy.

02:20:16.000 Look at that. 1.00

02:20:17.000 Look at that handsome fucking model. 1.00

02:20:18.000 Yeah, that's a model. 1.00

02:20:19.000 That's a good-looking fella.

02:20:21.000 Let's get loud.

02:20:23.000 All right.

02:20:24.000 That may be a model, too.

02:20:25.000 Yeah, he's definitely a model.

02:20:26.000 He's beautiful.

02:20:28.000 Well, thank you very much.

02:20:29.000 I really enjoyed it.

02:20:30.000 Same here.

02:20:30.000 Thank you.

02:20:31.000 Enjoyed it.

02:20:31.000 Thanks for having me.

02:20:32.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - March 01, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2282 - Bill Murray

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