The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2293 - Chris Williamson

00:00:13.000 I took the glasses off.

00:00:14.000 I was hoping you were going to keep them on.

00:00:15.000 You want me to keep them on?

00:00:16.000 You can pull them off.

00:00:17.000 Some dudes can't pull off douchey glasses.

00:00:19.000 You think he's douchey? 0.90

00:00:20.000 A little bit if I didn't know you, but I'll tell you.

00:00:23.000 I'm not douchey at all, so you can wear cool glasses.

00:00:25.000 These are requests by you, so I can wear what I want.

00:00:28.000 You've been wearing them a lot.

00:00:29.000 I like them.

00:00:30.000 Yeah, yeah, I do.

00:00:30.000 They're kind of...

00:00:31.000 It's like having an Instagram filter for the entire world.

00:00:34.000 Right. So everything feels...

00:00:35.000 Just a little rosy.

00:00:36.000 I had a pair of rose-colored glasses before and I got it.

00:00:38.000 I was like, oh, I get it.

00:00:39.000 It is better this way.

00:00:40.000 It is nicer.

00:00:41.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:00:41.000 It's like a full...

00:00:42.000 Dude, I need to show you this.

00:00:44.000 Okay. What is this?

00:00:45.000 I have a little open of that.

00:00:47.000 So you'll remember that I sent you a photo on iMessage a couple of months ago of a friend of mine who was in Antarctica.

00:00:55.000 Yeah. And he flew a comedy mothership lighter out to Antarctica.

00:01:00.000 I've been reliably told that that lighter was used to smoke weed in Antarctica.

00:01:06.000 In Antarctica?

00:01:06.000 Yeah, and it's touched...

00:01:07.000 It was dropped a number of times, so it's touched ancient permafrost.

00:01:10.000 Fuck yeah.

00:01:11.000 What kind of laws do they have in Antarctica?

00:01:14.000 I don't know.

00:01:14.000 Apparently very liberal.

00:01:15.000 Do they have any laws?

00:01:16.000 Fuck knows.

00:01:17.000 I don't know.

00:01:17.000 There's nobody there.

00:01:18.000 Have they established laws?

00:01:19.000 They were 400 miles in.

00:01:21.000 Whoa. So this was part of the final experiment.

00:01:24.000 Which was this attempt to try and disprove Flat Earth.

00:01:27.000 Oh. He went as a part of that.

00:01:32.000 Did he bring Flat Earthers?

00:01:33.000 Is that the deal?

00:01:34.000 So, four Flat Earthers, four Globies, Globe Earthers, get flown to Antarctica.

00:01:40.000 It's $35,000 per person.

00:01:42.000 Oh, my God.

00:01:43.000 This guy called Will Duffy put the project together, flew everybody down there.

00:01:47.000 Did he pay for each person?

00:01:49.000 Yep. Wow.

00:01:50.000 I think maybe a couple of people chose to go self-funded.

00:01:53.000 But they were trying to get the open offer to all of the biggest Flat Earth influencers, commentators on the planet.

00:02:01.000 I don't know what to call them.

00:02:02.000 How many went?

00:02:03.000 Four of each.

00:02:04.000 So four roundies, four flatties. 0.97

00:02:08.000 Don't you want to see their search histories?

00:02:11.000 Maybe the FBI do.

00:02:12.000 I don't know.

00:02:13.000 The flat people, I want to see.

00:02:15.000 So they do this in the middle of our winter, their summer.

00:02:20.000 They observed the sun above the horizon for 24 hours.

00:02:23.000 So there's no explanation, apparently, with most of the models of Flat Earth about how the sun could stay above the horizon for 24 hours.

00:02:30.000 So they flew down.

00:02:31.000 They had drones flying in the air.

00:02:33.000 They had a 24-hour 360 cameras.

00:02:37.000 They had live stream of iPhones, all of this stuff.

00:02:40.000 And then they had the people that were on the ground.

00:02:42.000 And the guys that were there observed the sun.

00:02:45.000 Did the Flat Earthers switch stances? 0.97

00:02:47.000 So three...

00:02:48.000 Three did and one didn't?

00:02:50.000 This is just the drone footage.

00:02:52.000 Oh, this is drone footage?

00:02:53.000 Yeah, so the final experiment.

00:02:55.000 So those are apparently mountaintops.

00:02:58.000 But they're submerged?

00:03:00.000 It's just all ice.

00:03:02.000 That is so fucking hardcore.

00:03:04.000 Because, you know, there's a bunch of things up there that look like pyramids.

00:03:08.000 And what it really is, is just an unusual peak of an enormous mountain.

00:03:13.000 Have you seen the Antarctic pyramids?

00:03:15.000 Yeah, you gotta go all in on that.

00:03:17.000 Okay. We have hard launched this episode.

00:03:22.000 People that believe wild shit about Antarctica.

00:03:25.000 So you know about the direct energy weapon theory, right?

00:03:28.000 Yes, I did see that on Sean Ryan's show.

00:03:30.000 Yes, I did as well.

00:03:31.000 That guy's fucking really interesting.

00:03:34.000 Yeah. He sounds really interesting, but I want to sit him next to Eric Weinstein.

00:03:41.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:03:42.000 Is anything...

00:03:44.000 Does this guy saying make any sense?

00:03:46.000 Because I've done that before with Eric, with one guy who was a fraudster.

00:03:49.000 I sent him a video and I said, tell me if this is gobbledygook or if this is real physics.

00:03:54.000 You use Eric to stress test some guy's ideas.

00:03:56.000 Of course, he loves it.

00:03:57.000 He loves any sort of intellectual stimulation, especially if it's like mathematics or physics or something where it's his wheelhouse.

00:04:05.000 And, you know, he's great.

00:04:07.000 Because someone can sound really good to me.

00:04:11.000 You know?

00:04:12.000 They can start quoting thermal dynamics.

00:04:14.000 Finessing you through whatever their problem is.

00:04:16.000 Like chiropractors do.

00:04:18.000 You know, chiropractors use all these crazy, weird terms for musculature and different insertion points.

00:04:25.000 It's to let you know that they have a comprehensive understanding of the body that's far beyond yours, Chris!

00:04:31.000 And this is the same thing like a lot of fraudsters do.

00:04:34.000 They'll use enormous language and very verbose...

00:04:39.000 You know, phrases, and it's like they're just trying to get you to think that they're smarter than they are.

00:04:46.000 Yeah, I think people use sort of complex language and fluency as a proxy for truthfulness and insight.

00:04:52.000 Yes, yes.

00:04:53.000 And especially when, if you're dealing with a truly brilliant person, that's with a pyramid.

00:04:57.000 Oh, holy fuck.

00:04:58.000 Yeah. Oh, this is just on Google Maps.

00:05:00.000 Yeah. Jamie, you've just gone to Google Maps.

00:05:01.000 Yeah, I didn't want to go to any, I went to the source.

00:05:03.000 Any kooky websites?

00:05:04.000 But it does look like a pyramid.

00:05:07.000 Well, it also looks like all three.

00:05:08.000 Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy.

00:05:10.000 But the reality is that's probably under a couple miles of ice.

00:05:15.000 Wow. Yeah, so this final experiment thing sent the world into a spiral.

00:05:20.000 There's this dude, Jaron Campanella, who was one of the biggest influencers, and he's said...

00:05:25.000 I saw the sun above the horizon.

00:05:28.000 I think the Earth's round.

00:05:30.000 The Flat Earth Society's just gone into a head spin.

00:05:33.000 They're saying they didn't really go to Antarctica.

00:05:36.000 They went to the sphere in Vegas, was one of the accusations.

00:05:38.000 They did it at the sphere in Vegas.

00:05:40.000 And they were tracking it around.

00:05:42.000 The sphere's not that big, kids.

00:05:45.000 It's not that big.

00:05:46.000 I've been there.

00:05:47.000 There's seats everywhere.

00:05:48.000 You would know you're there.

00:05:50.000 I don't know.

00:05:51.000 They had a bad time.

00:05:53.000 But yeah, that's been pretty wild.

00:05:55.000 Talking of pyramids, dude, this new pyramid shit that's just come out?

00:05:59.000 Oh, this is insane.

00:06:01.000 Yeah, I was going to send this to you as well, Jamie.

00:06:03.000 I'll send you one of the most comprehensive breakdowns of it on X because it's quite stunning.

00:06:09.000 So apparently through the use of LIDAR, they have discovered that there are enormous structures underneath the Great Pyramid that go kilometers deep into the earth with coils.

00:06:21.000 So enormous pillars and then these coils, they don't understand what it is because they're just looking at LIDAR images.

00:06:30.000 But whatever this is, is a uniform structure.

00:06:35.000 There's several pillars and all of this is like very, very, very weird.

00:06:41.000 Yeah, 600 meters descending down those cylinders, and then there's more stuff below it, and then there's additional structures inside of it.

00:06:49.000 Yeah, that was crazy.

00:06:50.000 It's really crazy.

00:06:51.000 There's a guy, Jay Anderson, and he did a breakdown of it.

00:06:55.000 Maybe this would be good.

00:06:57.000 We could play this.

00:07:00.000 It makes a little more sense when someone's explaining it to you.

00:07:03.000 Yeah, I mean, we need somebody that's an expert here, not me and you.

00:07:06.000 Zawi Hawass, by the way, has said it's nonsense.

00:07:09.000 Already? Yes.

00:07:10.000 According to Graham Hancock.

00:07:12.000 This is the wonderful thing about having Graham Hancock.

00:07:13.000 I texted Graham yesterday.

00:07:14.000 I was like, yeah, what's going on with this?

00:07:16.000 Yeah, so click on that and go full screen, please.

00:07:19.000 This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.

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00:08:42.000 That's BetterHelp.com slash J-R-E.

00:08:49.000 How significant of a discovery this is.

00:08:54.000 Dun-dun-dun.

00:08:55.000 I love the music.

00:08:57.000 And geometry, so you know it's real.

00:08:59.000 You've got to appreciate the dramatic intro.

00:09:01.000 Project Unity.

00:09:04.000 What has just been announced in relation to the pyramids at the Giza Plateau and the plateau itself is so incredible, so awe-inspiring and narrative.

00:09:15.000 shattering that I have been sitting here for the last hour trying to wrap my head around the implications of what we were just told.

00:09:23.000 So this is pretty much breaking news because the new findings were announced on the 16th of March at a press conference held by the team who were studying the Great Pyramid of Giza with a non-invasive technology that was first developed by Filippo Bionde and Corrado Malanga called Synthetic Aperture Radar Doppler Tomography.

00:09:42.000 Fuck that's a mouthful.

00:09:45.000 the internal structure of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

00:09:48.000 And this method leverages the analysis of micro-movements typically generated by background seismic activity to achieve a high-resolution, full 3D tomographic imagery of the pyramid's interior and subsurface components. The recent findings from deploying this technology

00:10:08.000 are nothing short of mind-blowing because what's been discovered is that there are huge structures coming down from the base of the pyramid deep into the bedrock in fact over 600 meters deep which then connects to structures that extend up to two kilometers below the surface of the ground two kilometers massive internal structures connected to the base of the pyramid and extending deep Deep down.

00:10:37.000 This is what we know so far.

00:10:40.000 What does your friend think about it?

00:10:42.000 Which friend?

00:10:43.000 The one that said it's bullshit.

00:10:45.000 Oh, that's not my friend.

00:10:46.000 That's Zawi Hawass. 0.99

00:10:47.000 Okay. Zawi Hawass is the head of antiquities in Egypt.

00:10:51.000 He's like the head guy that talks to the archaeologists and gives the official narrative.

00:10:57.000 In the past...

00:11:00.000 He's been extremely hostile to Graham Hancock, but Graham Hancock and him have now become friends.

00:11:04.000 Oh, yes.

00:11:05.000 I do know this guy.

00:11:05.000 And they're coordinating.

00:11:06.000 Graham is a lovely guy.

00:11:07.000 People that are enemies with him just need to get to know him and hang out with him.

00:11:13.000 He's a genuine, real human being who's trying to find the truth.

00:11:19.000 He doesn't have fake narratives.

00:11:21.000 And he's so sensitive, too.

00:11:23.000 Like, he's so upset.

00:11:23.000 Like, when people smeared him, like the Atlantis thing, they were trying to say it's a white supremacist idea to look for Atlantis.

00:11:30.000 It's like, what are you talking about?

00:11:32.000 Like, what are you talking about?

00:11:33.000 Like, we had this guy, Flint Dibble, who, in an article, and he was...

00:11:38.000 Talking about Graham and he's connecting Graham to white supremacy and all this crazy shit because of the Atlantis theory.

00:11:46.000 It's the way they dismiss it.

00:11:48.000 It pedestalizes white heritage. 0.72

00:11:50.000 Because some people in the past, some people in the past who have theorized about Atlantis had white supremacist ideas.

00:11:58.000 But also, most people didn't.

00:12:01.000 Like, Plato didn't.

00:12:02.000 Like, the people that talked about...

00:12:04.000 This place, it's in sub-Saharan Africa.

00:12:07.000 I mean, it's like the least white supremacist discovery of all time, as are the pyramids.

00:12:13.000 This is Africa.

00:12:14.000 It's the least white supremacist notion of all time that this incredibly advanced ancient civilization had reached some sort of proficiency that's above and beyond what we attribute to them.

00:12:26.000 I think Graham is right, and I think there's a lot of other people that are right, too, that are chasing this down.

00:12:34.000 Christopher Dunn had long ago theorized and wrote a book that he believes that the Great Pyramid of Giza is a gigantic power plant.

00:12:42.000 He thinks it generates power and he has a very like a working theory of why it's built the way it's built.

00:12:52.000 That totally coincides with the ability to produce hydrogen, the ability to utilize the rays of space and try to find some way to generate electricity through this.

00:13:06.000 Yeah. The association of other people that we don't like talked about this thing, therefore anybody else that talks about this thing is immediately attached to them, just seems like a very lazy way to sort of smear people.

00:13:19.000 It's lazy thinking.

00:13:21.000 It's gross.

00:13:22.000 It's beyond lazy.

00:13:24.000 It's not lazy.

00:13:25.000 It's really cheap.

00:13:26.000 It's like they're cheap insults.

00:13:28.000 And it's also from academia, which is so disappointing.

00:13:31.000 You know, I mean, academia has been so captured by this mind virus of leftism that it's just it's so bizarre to watch the brightest minds and the people that we lean on for rational, reasonable thinking and an objective understanding of the world.

00:13:50.000 We lean on the experts.

00:13:52.000 And when they're calling someone a white supremacist for talking about an advanced society that lived in Africa.

00:13:58.000 There's a lot of ways that you can put your foot in it.

00:14:00.000 There's this woman, Corey Clark, who sent a survey to every psychology professor in the U.S. and asked them questions like, what is more important, the truth?

00:14:12.000 Or ensuring that equity is promoted.

00:14:17.000 And a lot of professors basically said, I self-censor.

00:14:22.000 I would prioritize making people feel good over necessarily telling them the truth.

00:14:26.000 There are certain opinions that people should be reported for.

00:14:29.000 There are certain topics that basically shouldn't be discussed.

00:14:32.000 The usual suspects stuff like behavioral genetics, so heritability, evolutionary psychology, as in anything that kind of relates to sex differences.

00:14:41.000 And yeah, it really is retarding the progress of everything.

00:14:47.000 And you think, well, trickling down from this, what sort of educated society are you going to have in future?

00:14:54.000 That's not going to be particularly good.

00:14:55.000 Well, I think it's going to encourage independent education.

00:14:58.000 I think you're going to encourage people like University of Austin, which is they're aiming to do just that and to kind of bypass all this nonsense and just teach people reality.

00:15:10.000 And I also think that it's most likely...

00:15:15.000 I mean, I don't even want to say most likely.

00:15:17.000 It's most certainly influenced by other countries that want to degrade our ability to develop meaningful minds that come out of universities, like intelligent, useful people.

00:15:30.000 Distract them with...

00:15:32.000 Not just distract them, but destroy society with them.

00:15:35.000 It's Yuri Bezmenov's prediction from 1984.

00:15:38.000 It's like you could pass that off as a ridiculous conspiracy theory if it wasn't totally accurate.

00:15:45.000 It's amazing how people don't want to believe that maybe there's been subversion and that maybe our universities have been overrun for years with...

00:15:56.000 Both funding, which we know is true, particularly from China.

00:16:00.000 China funds a lot of American universities.

00:16:02.000 They give a lot of grants.

00:16:04.000 They spend a lot of money.

00:16:05.000 And this was a part of the whole thing with Joe Biden's bizarre job that he had, where he was a professor.

00:16:16.000 That he never showed up for classes, and he was teaching, and he got a large salary.

00:16:20.000 Like a mob teaching job.

00:16:21.000 He got a mob no-show job teaching.

00:16:24.000 As a professor.

00:16:25.000 Yeah, as a professor.

00:16:26.000 And I think he got a million dollars a year to just do nothing.

00:16:29.000 You know that question that people ask about...

00:16:31.000 I don't know how much he got.

00:16:32.000 I don't want to get sued.

00:16:34.000 Allegedly. He doesn't know what's going on.

00:16:37.000 He doesn't know what's going on.

00:16:39.000 Well, he might auto-sign the legal papers.

00:16:42.000 There's that question about, there's two options about life in the universe, that either we're alone or that we're not, and both are equally terrifying.

00:16:49.000 Right. I feel like it's the same when it comes to Western anti-Westernism.

00:16:56.000 And you say, either we're doing it to ourselves.

00:16:59.000 Or we're not.

00:17:00.000 And both are equally terrifying.

00:17:02.000 You're being puppeted by this nefarious foreign power. 0.99

00:17:06.000 Or you're just turning around and kicking the ball into your own goal over and over again.

00:17:11.000 Well, I think people will turn around and kick the ball into their own goal.

00:17:15.000 But I also think they're being helped.

00:17:16.000 I think there's a substantial amount of this that just works automatically.

00:17:22.000 It preys upon...

00:17:24.000 Really weak minds and particularly bullies and mean people who want to find other people that they can hate to justify whatever virtue they believe they have above those people.

00:17:37.000 And they'll use it to hate.

00:17:39.000 And John Cleese made a great video about this, why extremism is so interesting.

00:17:45.000 It's on my Instagram.

00:17:47.000 I reposted it the other day.

00:17:49.000 Someone posted it.

00:17:50.000 We'll give them credit for it.

00:17:51.000 But it's a great clip from John Cleese.

00:17:53.000 From 30 years ago.

00:17:55.000 From 30 years ago.

00:17:57.000 Prophetic. Pre-social media.

00:17:59.000 There's no social media at this time.

00:18:00.000 And he essentially nails what's going on with both the right-wing extremists and the left-wing extremists.

00:18:08.000 It's the same thing.

00:18:10.000 They're the same people.

00:18:11.000 They're finding a thing.

00:18:12.000 Click this.

00:18:13.000 We've heard a lot about extremism recently, a nastier, harsher atmosphere everywhere, more abuse and bother-boy behavior, less friendliness and tolerance and respect for opponents.

00:18:23.000 All right, but what we never hear about extremism is its advantages.

00:18:28.000 Well, the biggest advantage of extremism is that it makes you feel good because it provides you with enemies.

00:18:37.000 Let me explain.

00:18:38.000 The great thing about having enemies is that you can pretend that all the badness in the whole world is in your enemies, and all the goodness in the whole world is in you.

00:18:48.000 Attractive, isn't it?

00:18:49.000 So, if you have a lot of anger and resentment in you anyway, and you therefore enjoy abusing people, then you can pretend that you're only doing it because these enemies of yours are such very bad persons, and that if it wasn't for them, you'd actually be good-natured and courteous and rational all the time.

00:19:06.000 So, if you want to feel good, become an extremist.

00:19:11.000 Okay. Now you have a choice.

00:19:13.000 If you join the hard left, they'll give you their list of authorized enemies.

00:19:18.000 Almost all kinds of authority, especially the police, the city, Americans, judges, multinational corporations, public schools, furriers, newspaper owners, fox hunters, generals, class traitors, and, of course, moderates.

00:19:38.000 I bet the moderates are in there again.

00:19:40.000 You still get the loveliness of enemies, only they're different ones.

00:19:42.000 Noisy minority groups, unions, Russia, weirdos, demonstrators, welfare sponges, meddlesome clergy, peaceniks, the BBC, strikers, social workers, communists, and, of course, moderates. And upstart actors.

00:20:01.000 Now, once you're armed with one of these super lists of enemies, you can be as nasty as you like and yet feel your behaviours morally justified.

00:20:10.000 So you can strut around abusing people and telling them you could eat them for breakfast and still think of yourself as a champion of the truth, a fighter for the greater good.

00:20:20.000 Brilliant. That's so good.

00:20:27.000 Yeah, I remember...

00:20:28.000 Pre-social media!

00:20:29.000 But the dynamic is still the same.

00:20:31.000 Right. It's just amplified now so much so that it's a part of everyone's life.

00:20:34.000 So many people's morality stands on the shoulders of somebody that's fallen behind, right?

00:20:40.000 It's look at how bad that person is.

00:20:43.000 You don't need to look at me.

00:20:44.000 And I think that if people start pointing at outgroups and they bind their group together over the mutual hatred of an outgroup, that's usually an indication.

00:20:53.000 I'm like, I should look a little bit closer at you.

00:20:56.000 Like, it might be a good example.

00:21:00.000 Lizzo. Didn't think I was going to go there.

00:21:04.000 Lizzo, talking about how she was in support of these bigger girls and she was going to help their careers and give them a platform, presumably a structurally reinforced platform. 0.99

00:21:18.000 Meanwhile, behind the scenes, she's body shaming them. 1.00

00:21:21.000 She's starving them.

00:21:22.000 She's not letting them have water.

00:21:23.000 Apart from when she makes them eat bananas out of the vaginas of Amsterdam strippers. 1.00

00:21:28.000 Douglas Murray said that she thought that she could outsource eating fruit to somebody else.

00:21:32.000 LAUGHTER LAUGHTER LAUGHTER LAUGHTER LAUGHTER LAUGHTER And meanwhile, you think she's portraying nicey-nicey out front.

00:21:44.000 What's happening behind the scenes.

00:21:46.000 Right. I remember this.

00:21:46.000 This was pre...

00:21:48.000 You want a cigar?

00:21:49.000 Yeah, please.

00:21:50.000 This was pre...

00:21:51.000 Thank you.

00:21:56.000 Pre-Trump Elon.

00:21:58.000 Really pre-Trump Elon.

00:21:59.000 And he was saying...

00:22:00.000 Thank you very much.

00:22:01.000 And he was saying, what I care about is doing good, not the appearance of it.

00:22:06.000 Yes. And he's discussing performative empathy in this way.

00:22:10.000 This sort of sense that what's most important is to protect people's feelings.

00:22:15.000 And I think that this really is a point, it doesn't matter whether you're on left or right, this is a point that you should care about because you want people to have some sense of transparency, legitimacy.

00:22:24.000 They want to be telling the truth.

00:22:26.000 You want to trust that what someone is saying to you is actually what they believe.

00:22:29.000 Yes. And he said...

00:22:32.000 What I care about is doing good, not the appearance of it.

00:22:34.000 There are lots of people who are doing evil while proclaiming that they're doing good.

00:22:38.000 And, you know, that's the same that you're talking about there with John Cleese.

00:22:41.000 You're saying these people's morality will stand on the shoulders of others who have fallen behind.

00:22:47.000 It's the same reason why if somebody's in the middle of a scandal, look at who comes out and twists the knife a lot.

00:22:53.000 Do you go, huh?

00:22:55.000 I wonder what's in your...

00:22:56.000 It's the classic congressman that's got the anti-gay bill.

00:22:59.000 Oh, yeah.

00:23:01.000 Gay as fuck. 1.00

00:23:02.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:23:03.000 Glory holes and, you know...

00:23:05.000 Check his hard drive.

00:23:06.000 That's the person whose hard drive.

00:23:08.000 Check his hard drive, yeah.

00:23:09.000 So, yeah, it's just such an obvious warning sign to me that what's happening inside of someone is probably not that good.

00:23:19.000 Yeah, I mean, if you're looking to destroy someone...

00:23:22.000 Particularly. Like you're attacking someone online, particularly.

00:23:27.000 Almost all of those people are deeply broken.

00:23:30.000 There's always some creepiness that lurks behind the scenes that you're trying to cover up for with your actions.

00:23:37.000 Almost always.

00:23:38.000 You're trying to put the light on this person.

00:23:40.000 You're going to put the eye of Sauron on this person to keep it off yourself.

00:23:44.000 I've seen that a lot of self-proclaimed male feminists. 1.00

00:23:49.000 Sneaky fuckers.

00:23:50.000 Yeah, that I know to be creeps.

00:23:52.000 You know?

00:23:53.000 And I'm like, ew.

00:23:54.000 And I'll see them attacking some other guy and I'm like, oh god.

00:23:57.000 I don't dive in, but I want to sometimes.

00:24:02.000 Sometimes I want to just burn the boats and pull the fucking pins on the grenades.

00:24:07.000 You know what I don't like about that sort of level of aggressive criticism?

00:24:10.000 I think I'm a...

00:24:11.000 You could describe me as a criticism hyper-responder.

00:24:14.000 I'm someone for whom it probably impacted me more than it should do, certainly more than it should do for someone who gets the level of attention that I've managed to get myself to now.

00:24:23.000 And what I don't like about it is it causes people like me To be way less confident in their own positions because you think, oh, well, most people, if it was me, I would only give feedback if I was really certain and if I had this person's best interests at heart and if I wanted them to do better and if I actually knew what I was talking about, then I would tell this person what I think about them and what I think about what they're saying.

00:24:45.000 And if you apply that rubric to everybody else that gives you criticism, you give undue, unfair expertise and legitimacy to people who don't have your best interests at heart.

00:24:56.000 They don't understand what you're trying to do.

00:24:58.000 They don't care about you.

00:24:59.000 They don't get it.

00:25:00.000 And it causes a lot of people...

00:25:04.000 Basically, I think that criticism killed more dreams than a lack of competence ever did because people are just, I'm worried about pushing these boundaries too much.

00:25:12.000 This person, all of my friends tell me the truth.

00:25:14.000 Why isn't this person on the internet?

00:25:16.000 There's this idea from Ethan Cross called criticism capture.

00:25:19.000 So you'll have heard of audience capture, right?

00:25:21.000 Where a creator starts feeding red meat to the audience, becomes very predictable.

00:25:25.000 Criticism capture basically says it's not the compliments, but the criticisms that are more warping.

00:25:32.000 That over time, what you end up doing is changing the way that you speak.

00:25:37.000 You become...

00:25:41.000 Flaming sword-wielding, card-carrying member that's as aggressive as possible to push back against it.

00:25:46.000 Or you go the other way and you begin to caveat very aggressively.

00:25:50.000 You start to dampen down all of your opinions so that nobody can take offense to them.

00:25:53.000 You have these unnecessarily long sort of diatribes, sort of weird land acknowledgement.

00:25:58.000 Well, we must remember that women are struggling with the thing and we have to do the memories. 0.99

00:26:01.000 But now we've got that out of the way.

00:26:03.000 Let's talk about men's problems or whatever it might be. 0.94

00:26:05.000 And yeah, I think...

00:26:09.000 I just wish that the internet was a little bit more positive sum as opposed to negative sum.

00:26:13.000 And I understand that people bind together over mutual hatreds of outgroups.

00:26:16.000 But the oldest story in human history is that group of people are different to us. 0.95

00:26:20.000 Yeah. Let's get them.

00:26:21.000 The oldest story in history.

00:26:23.000 I mean, it's tribal genetics.

00:26:25.000 It's like baked into our DNA, literally.

00:26:29.000 And it can be manipulated.

00:26:31.000 And when people are doing it and they're doing it with a very obvious...

00:26:37.000 Distortion of your actual position just to label you as the worst possible, least charitable version of you that could ever be remotely considered.

00:26:50.000 Do you see that all the time where people are just trying to distort a narrative?

00:26:55.000 You're seeing that right now with Elon, right?

00:26:57.000 You're seeing people justify violence.

00:27:01.000 And extreme vandalism.

00:27:03.000 And you're seeing people cheering on.

00:27:05.000 And it's very strange.

00:27:06.000 There was a thing on The Daily Show where the host was talking about the attacks on Tesla.

00:27:14.000 And people keying people.

00:27:15.000 And the audience starts clapping and cheering.

00:27:17.000 It's so strange.

00:27:20.000 It's so fucking strange.

00:27:23.000 And it also just shows you how positions just completely flip-flop.

00:27:27.000 Like the Tesla used to be the car that you drove to let everybody know that you were environmentally conscious and you were a good leftist.

00:27:33.000 That's a good question.

00:27:34.000 Do we care about the environment or not?

00:27:35.000 Because those fumes that are being kicked out of that are not good.

00:27:38.000 It's like a thousand jet airplanes flying overhead for a year.

00:27:42.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:44.000 It's wild.

00:27:45.000 You're lighting batteries on fire.

00:27:46.000 They're so toxic.

00:27:48.000 Lithium and all sorts of shit getting pissed into the environment.

00:27:51.000 Oh, it's all going to come down in rain.

00:27:52.000 It's going to pollute the water. 0.90

00:27:53.000 The fish are going to be polluted.

00:27:55.000 You're not going to be able to eat them.

00:27:56.000 But we're doing good.

00:27:57.000 This is for a righteous cause.

00:27:58.000 Yeah. It's all funded, too.

00:28:00.000 It's funded by NGOs.

00:28:02.000 That's where it gets really creepy.

00:28:03.000 The Tesla fires are funded by NGOs.

00:28:05.000 Yeah, people are uncovering exactly what's going on.

00:28:08.000 And this is where it gets fascinating because all this stuff is operated.

00:28:14.000 Pretty much with impunity in the past, before Doge, before Elon and his crew of hyperspectrum psychopaths started to...

00:28:23.000 Fucking teenage mutant ninja turtles.

00:28:25.000 Super wizards started diving into all this data.

00:28:29.000 And this is something that...

00:28:30.000 Ted Cruz talked about it.

00:28:32.000 He said, we had always known that there was these problems, but until Elon came along with these algorithms, we couldn't expose them.

00:28:38.000 We didn't understand what was going on.

00:28:40.000 And now they've used AI to create this understanding of the net of NGOs that is all funded by...

00:28:50.000 U.S. aid and by similar type programs where, you know, you kind of have these open-ended checks that get written to the other side.

00:28:59.000 Other side.

00:28:59.000 That's the top.

00:29:00.000 Yeah, right there.

00:29:02.000 How often do you smoke cigars, fella?

00:29:03.000 A couple of times.

00:29:04.000 Well, I fucking turned this around the wrong way.

00:29:06.000 All right.

00:29:06.000 No worries.

00:29:06.000 Keep going.

00:29:08.000 But this is essentially the way Mike Benz describes it.

00:29:12.000 He's the very best at it.

00:29:14.000 I don't know if you've ever seen his breakdowns of...

00:29:17.000 U.S. aid.

00:29:18.000 I love his episodes on here.

00:29:19.000 Incredible. I think they're so interesting.

00:29:20.000 They're so interesting because you realize like this has been going on forever and ever and ever.

00:29:24.000 And this is the arm of the government that is about regime change.

00:29:31.000 A lot of the money gets funneled into these other countries and it's under the guise of, you know, air quotes, aid.

00:29:37.000 But it's not aid.

00:29:38.000 It's Agency for International Development.

00:29:40.000 And it's all about influence and power all throughout the world and also at home.

00:29:47.000 And one of the things that it does at home is they organize these protests.

00:29:50.000 They organize protests, different NGOs do, all funded by the government, all funded by taxpayer money in this weird way.

00:29:58.000 And when they do it, they pay people to show up at these places.

00:30:03.000 I've got pamphlets that people have given me that they've taken from these locations or gotten from email lists.

00:30:10.000 Is that purposefully no digital record?

00:30:12.000 I think probably, but I don't think they care.

00:30:15.000 I mean, I think as long as they're saying they're going to pay you to protest, I think that's legal.

00:30:20.000 I think it's legal to pay someone to protest.

00:30:21.000 So they're paying people $1,000, and they're giving them food and snacks, and you can get a lot of people to just show up for $1,000.

00:30:29.000 And then some of them are going to get a little vandal-y.

00:30:34.000 You bring enough people together and they get vandal-y?

00:30:36.000 How crazy is it that the left...

00:30:39.000 Are the ones who are painting swastikas on cars. 0.54

00:30:42.000 Just understand how crazy positions can flip and flop.

00:30:47.000 The left is upset that we're not continuing an endless war in Ukraine.

00:30:51.000 The left is upset that this guy is uncovering fraud and waste.

00:30:57.000 And so in order to stop that, you must light cars on fire and put swastikas on them. 0.65

00:31:04.000 Because he's a Nazi. 0.62

00:31:05.000 Because he said, my heart goes out to you.

00:31:08.000 Even though there's countless videos of AOC doing that gesture, Tim Walsh doing that gesture enthusiastically.

00:31:16.000 Many, many people.

00:31:17.000 I do think if you're in that position, if you've got this heritage coming in, just be careful with where you put your hands.

00:31:23.000 Don't. Do you know what I mean?

00:31:23.000 Don't do that.

00:31:24.000 Like, just fucking think about where you put your hands.

00:31:27.000 He's, you know, he's on the spectrum, man.

00:31:29.000 He's not normal.

00:31:30.000 You've seen that video comparing him and Trump's son.

00:31:33.000 There's two different types of autism.

00:31:35.000 Have you seen this?

00:31:36.000 No, I haven't.

00:31:37.000 Oh, my God.

00:31:37.000 It's so good.

00:31:38.000 I think it's at the inauguration, and they both stood next to each other, and Elon's sort of fist-pumping and loving it, and Trump's son's just, like, staring off.

00:31:48.000 Apparently, Trump's son went up to Biden at the inauguration and said, it's on now.

00:31:54.000 What is this?

00:31:55.000 A fucking UFC fight?

00:31:57.000 I mean, that's literally, apparently, lip readers of, like...

00:32:00.000 Read what he said when he went up to, because there's a moment where he goes up to Biden and Biden looks confused and he doesn't smile.

00:32:08.000 He's like, eh.

00:32:09.000 But he walks up to him and goes, it's on now.

00:32:12.000 Well, they need to do, you know, how football coaches have got, they put the play thing over the front of their mouth like this and they talk into it.

00:32:19.000 That's how it needs to be done now for politics with lip readers everywhere.

00:32:22.000 That kid knew there was lip readers.

00:32:23.000 I don't think he gave a fuck.

00:32:25.000 I think they tried to put his dad in jail and he wants to kill that guy.

00:32:28.000 That's what I think.

00:32:29.000 He's like, fuck you.

00:32:30.000 Because imagine your dad's getting that close to put in jail for bullshit for the rest of his life.

00:32:35.000 Like if he got put in jail for 25 to life, he's dead.

00:32:39.000 He's dead.

00:32:39.000 He dies in jail.

00:32:40.000 He's going to get no food.

00:32:42.000 He's going to be no nutrition, no sunlight, depression, intense fucking anxiety.

00:32:48.000 You're in jail.

00:32:49.000 You're dead.

00:32:49.000 He's 80 years old.

00:32:51.000 He's not going to last to 105 in jail.

00:32:52.000 There was a video from Forbes recently that got a million plays in a day.

00:32:57.000 Talking about Trump getting, like, bopped on the nose by a boom mic.

00:33:02.000 Yeah, by a little boom mic.

00:33:03.000 He just did a little boop on the nose. 1.00

00:33:05.000 Yeah. I have to say, I have such fucking news politics fatigue already.

00:33:11.000 We're, what, two months into the sort of presidency?

00:33:15.000 And it is the velocity of bullshit.

00:33:19.000 If you can get a million plays in a day because Trump got bopped on the nose by a fucking boom mic, it just...

00:33:27.000 Appetite is, it seems, endless for it.

00:33:30.000 It just feels, it's very, it's exhausting.

00:33:32.000 I'm kind of having to check out.

00:33:33.000 And I know that people say, oh, well, it's a luxurious position.

00:33:36.000 You don't need to pay attention to politics.

00:33:38.000 It's a luxurious position for you to be in.

00:33:40.000 People at the bottom, they do need to pay attention to politics.

00:33:42.000 It's an interesting stat, because actually the most educated, wealthiest people are the ones that spend the most time consuming news and talking about politics.

00:33:49.000 It's the people at the bottom rung of the ladder that don't.

00:33:51.000 So that's not true.

00:33:53.000 I'm just fucking exhausted.

00:33:54.000 You're allowed to be exhausted.

00:33:59.000 Newsweek wrote an article about how one of the names of one of our podcast guests, who's a good friend of mine, Michael Costa, his name was misspelled accidentally.

00:34:12.000 On the feed?

00:34:13.000 On the feed.

00:34:14.000 And so Newsweek...

00:34:16.000 Is that you, Jamie?

00:34:17.000 It wasn't even misspelled.

00:34:18.000 I don't know.

00:34:18.000 It was miscapitalized.

00:34:20.000 The second letter had a capitalization, too.

00:34:23.000 The defense rests its case here.

00:34:25.000 It wasn't even misspelled, right?

00:34:27.000 It was M, capital I, Michael Costa.

00:34:32.000 Like Mikal Kosta or something.

00:34:35.000 Okay. There's a headline.

00:34:36.000 It's a fucking article in Newsweek.

00:34:39.000 You ever think that your career would result in you having typos for a headline, Jamie?

00:34:44.000 Newsweek! I don't even know which ones we've missed.

00:34:46.000 I'm sure there's been other ones.

00:34:46.000 That's just the first one we've seen.

00:34:47.000 100%. What happens?

00:34:49.000 It happens.

00:34:50.000 People make mistakes.

00:34:51.000 You're typing things in.

00:34:52.000 Yeah. But the fact that it's an article that we're being called out for a typo.

00:34:59.000 But it's just anything for clicks, man.

00:35:02.000 Slow week for news.

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00:36:26.000 Anything for clicks.

00:36:27.000 That was something that I noticed, a trend that I've noticed over the last couple of years.

00:36:32.000 Legacy media is really struggling to garner attention itself.

00:36:36.000 It seems like fewer and fewer people are listening to it.

00:36:39.000 We saw that over the last election.

00:36:41.000 It seems to me like the best way that legacy media can gain traffic is to talk about independent media.

00:36:48.000 How many times are we seeing headlines about Andrew Huberman or about the right-wing Manosphere pipeline and how it's getting people to do this?

00:36:58.000 Or the other side?

00:36:59.000 Like, why is there not a Joe Rogan of the...

00:37:00.000 Whatever the headline is, more and more, the way that legacy media is able to achieve traffic is only in reference to independent media.

00:37:10.000 So as opposed to us being downstream from them, they're now downstream from us.

00:37:15.000 And anything masculine is right-wing.

00:37:18.000 Anything. You cannot be masculine.

00:37:21.000 Like, you cannot be interested in physical fitness, anything.

00:37:25.000 It's a pipeline to being right-wing.

00:37:26.000 Yes. You can't like fast cars.

00:37:29.000 Nope. You're not allowed to.

00:37:31.000 You're not even allowed to like Teslas anymore.

00:37:33.000 Misogynist. Which are the fastest cars.

00:37:35.000 Yeah, you're a misogynist.

00:37:36.000 You're probably racist.

00:37:37.000 Maybe a Nazi. 0.71

00:37:38.000 I'm going to put a swastika in your car just to let everybody know. 0.96

00:37:44.000 There was some really fucking stupid graph that someone put up of how right-wing social media and new media people dominate.

00:37:53.000 That was the Media Matters study.

00:37:55.000 This is interesting.

00:37:56.000 I was at the top of the list and I was like, I feel like the way Caitlyn Jenner must have felt when she won Women of the Year.

00:38:05.000 It's so quick I got to the top of the list.

00:38:08.000 I'm not even right-wing!

00:38:10.000 Just because I support Trump.

00:38:12.000 I supported him over the rest of the fucking nonsense that was going on when you're trying to push through someone without even a primary.

00:38:19.000 Here it is.

00:38:19.000 This is it.

00:38:20.000 I'm number one, bitch. 1.00

00:38:22.000 It's kind of funny.

00:38:23.000 Like, they're putting Theo Vaughn in there.

00:38:25.000 Lex Friedman?

00:38:25.000 Yeah, Lex Friedman.

00:38:27.000 That's hilarious to put him in there.

00:38:29.000 Who else do they have in there that's ridiculous?

00:38:30.000 Piers Morgan?

00:38:32.000 Well, Piers Morgan is kind of light-right leaning, I think.

00:38:36.000 Light-right.

00:38:37.000 But I think he's pretty reasonable.

00:38:40.000 I think he's far more of a centrist.

00:38:42.000 Kill Tony 3.5.

00:38:45.000 I still don't understand how that's a political show.

00:38:48.000 It's not, but Tony was at the White House.

00:38:53.000 Flagrant 2.8.

00:38:55.000 Flagrant is not a right-wing show, you fucking idiots.

00:38:58.000 They have a bunch of red dots, too, with no names on them.

00:39:01.000 You're allowed to.

00:39:02.000 Shut up, Jamie.

00:39:03.000 I managed to thread the needle of avoiding this.

00:39:06.000 You're gonna get on there now.

00:39:08.000 They're gonna put you on now.

00:39:10.000 Jamie, those red ones are real.

00:39:12.000 Just shut up. 1.00

00:39:13.000 No, they're real.

00:39:14.000 They're all real.

00:39:15.000 There's a couple blue ones that are real, too.

00:39:18.000 Fuck the name.

00:39:20.000 They're too little.

00:39:21.000 Too small.

00:39:21.000 No one cares.

00:39:22.000 It's hilarious.

00:39:23.000 It's very funny.

00:39:24.000 What do you think of the...

00:39:27.000 Have you got a proposed reason for why this?

00:39:30.000 Is it just a judgment criteria that they're judging?

00:39:34.000 Shows that aren't right-wing as right-wing?

00:39:36.000 Or is it genuinely that, for some reason, the left is struggling to make progress in independent media?

00:39:41.000 Well, they're struggling to make progress in independent media, for sure, and they're trying to figure out why.

00:39:45.000 They're trying to figure out why these, what they are calling right-wing...

00:39:50.000 I think if you looked at all my positions, I think way more of them are left-wing than right-wing.

00:39:55.000 What are the left-wing positions that you still hold?

00:39:58.000 Well, the big one is having some sort of a social safety net.

00:40:03.000 I was on welfare when I was a kid.

00:40:04.000 My family was on food stamps.

00:40:06.000 We were fucking poor as shit.

00:40:08.000 And I remember that helping us a lot.

00:40:12.000 We had food.

00:40:13.000 Where I don't know what we would be doing.

00:40:16.000 I mean, we were in a bad place.

00:40:18.000 And there's social safety nets for people.

00:40:21.000 My family got out of that.

00:40:22.000 And my stepfather and my mother wound up doing well.

00:40:26.000 They did really great.

00:40:27.000 And they got out of debt and bought a house.

00:40:31.000 Great job and the whole deal.

00:40:32.000 But when I was a little boy, we were fucked.

00:40:35.000 And I think social safety nets are very important for people.

00:40:40.000 It's very important for society.

00:40:42.000 If you care about people, you care about the whole society, you don't want people starving when there's ways to develop government programs to make sure people have food.

00:40:51.000 And I think this idea of pulling them up by their bootstraps is horseshit.

00:40:57.000 Some people don't have boots.

00:40:59.000 They don't have straps.

00:41:01.000 They don't have nothing.

00:41:02.000 They're fucked from the moment they were born.

00:41:05.000 They were born into a bad family environment, in a bad neighborhood, and crime, and gangs, and drugs, and it's not even playing field.

00:41:14.000 Where are you at with healthcare?

00:41:15.000 I think healthcare, 100%, should be socially funded.

00:41:21.000 I think that Medicare and Medicaid, having programs where people who are hurt can get An operation and it's not going to bankrupt them for the rest of their life is another thing that I think society should be a part of our agreement to take care of each other as a community.

00:41:39.000 That we chip in money for what people would think of as socialist positions.

00:41:43.000 And I always bring up the fire department because the fire department is one of the best examples that everybody sort of agrees.

00:41:48.000 It's a socialist sort of thing.

00:41:51.000 Give your tax dollars.

00:41:53.000 The tax dollar supports the fire department.

00:41:55.000 The fire department fairly puts out fires for everybody.

00:41:58.000 They don't not put out your fire if you don't have any money.

00:42:01.000 It's not like the fires don't...

00:42:03.000 It's such a good example, but when you compare that to the way that medical access is done, at least in this country.

00:42:08.000 But I also...

00:42:09.000 Believe in competition.

00:42:11.000 I've said this before.

00:42:12.000 I'll say it again.

00:42:12.000 I want my doctor to be a bad motherfucker who drives a Mercedes.

00:42:15.000 I want my doctor to be really good.

00:42:18.000 I want him to be an artist.

00:42:19.000 I want him to go to the guy who fixes the Lakers knees.

00:42:22.000 That's the guy you want.

00:42:23.000 You want that guy who has a nice watch, and he lives in a nice house, and he kicks ass, and he knows how to fucking fix people really well.

00:42:30.000 He's the best at it.

00:42:31.000 And you go to him, and you get an operation, and you're fucking golden.

00:42:34.000 That's what you want.

00:42:37.000 Competition, because competition inspires excellence.

00:42:40.000 You know, being rewarded for your hard work is a giant incentive for people to get amazing at things.

00:42:47.000 And you need that.

00:42:48.000 You need that too.

00:42:49.000 But there's also a lot of very good doctors who would be very happy to do something that helps the overall greater good of the community.

00:43:02.000 Just like you have really good criminal defense attorneys that are...

00:43:06.000 You know, assigned to you if you're getting unjustly tried and you want a really good one that can help you.

00:43:14.000 You know, there's state-appointed attorneys that are just good people that want to help people.

00:43:20.000 You know, Bill Murray was talking about his daughter.

00:43:22.000 His daughter does that.

00:43:24.000 You know, there's room for that with the amount of money that we spend on so many things that we all agree are fucked.

00:43:31.000 And maybe some of that could be freed up with some of this USAID money that they're pulling.

00:43:36.000 There's nothing wrong with giving people health care.

00:43:39.000 Like, if you know anybody that's been injured and was bankrupt because they didn't have insurance and then they had to get some crazy operation and now they have this enormous debt and they wind up going bankrupt or they're getting chased down for the money for the rest of their life, it's horrible.

00:43:53.000 It's the number one cause of bankruptcy in America, medical debt.

00:43:56.000 I mean, coming from the UK where we've got the NHS, it feels fucking barbaric.

00:44:00.000 It really does feel barbaric.

00:44:02.000 I remember I went to New Orleans and I was getting...

00:44:05.000 This great ghost tour on an evening tie.

00:44:07.000 It's like fun tourist shit to do in New Orleans.

00:44:09.000 I do those.

00:44:09.000 And the guide was so good.

00:44:12.000 My mother was a Wiccan.

00:44:14.000 I don't know if that was true, but the tale was lovely.

00:44:16.000 Anyway, he was telling me I've got a chipped wisdom tooth.

00:44:21.000 And my girlfriend got into a car wreck the other day.

00:44:25.000 And he basically said, he was explaining to me about how you can get bankrupted by this stuff.

00:44:29.000 He was like, if you get hit by a car and you don't have insurance, you better fucking walk it off.

00:44:32.000 Because if you don't...

00:44:33.000 That could be essentially the beginning of the end of your life.

00:44:37.000 And that really, I mean, that was six, seven years ago now, and it's still like, that was the most haunting thing about the fucking ghost tour, was him telling me about the medical debt.

00:44:47.000 And then I think the reaction to the UnitedHealth CEO killing as well, for me, somebody who didn't fully understand how many of the claims are denied.

00:44:57.000 I think that there was an increase by about 30% in denial of claims over only the most recent period.

00:45:02.000 And I just thought, guy shoots person.

00:45:06.000 Typically, the guy that shoots them is in the wrong, and the reaction on the internet just—I wasn't ready for it, and it really sort of taught me this undercurrent of dissatisfaction that almost everybody in America has with the healthcare system.

00:45:22.000 Yeah, I think it's a quiet epidemic.

00:45:24.000 I think there's been a lot of people massively affected by it, and they're just— Steaming.

00:45:31.000 Just sitting there seething.

00:45:33.000 Just angry.

00:45:33.000 Waiting for some righteous person to come in and do retribution.

00:45:36.000 But then you see the fucking revolving door between the FDA and the pharmaceutical drug corporations where these people leave and then all of a sudden they have these amazing jobs at pharmaceutical drug companies and they're making millions of dollars.

00:45:48.000 How is that legal?

00:45:50.000 How is this whole thing legal?

00:45:51.000 Like when you realize that doctors are incentivized to medicate people, they're financially incentivized to give people certain medications, whether it's vaccines, they get bonuses if they vaccinate more than 60% of their clients and they lose those bonuses if people don't get vaccinated.

00:46:11.000 There's like a lot of creepy shit that's involved in medicine.

00:46:14.000 The FDA ban.

00:46:19.000 Oh, it's a ban.

00:46:21.000 So you have to get it from the big companies.

00:46:24.000 Correct. Brigham taught me about this.

00:46:26.000 I didn't understand how it works.

00:46:27.000 If there's a shortage of a drug, compounding pharmacies are...

00:46:30.000 Kind of allowed to just bypass patents in some way.

00:46:33.000 It's like you can produce it and you can make it cheaper and more widely available because the supply chain is fucked or something like that.

00:46:39.000 That would be a good thing for society.

00:46:41.000 Well, to make more drugs more widely available for cheaper.

00:46:44.000 If it's good, if it's a very important pharmaceutical drug that can save people's lives.

00:46:48.000 Of course.

00:46:49.000 Imagine not letting compound pharmacies make it.

00:46:53.000 For people that can't get it.

00:46:54.000 Yeah, or can't afford it, or don't have the insurance for it.

00:46:56.000 So yeah, I mean, that came into effect.

00:46:58.000 I think tizepatide got popped yesterday, and then partway through April, semaglutide is going to go as well.

00:47:05.000 Yeah, that's all just eliminating competition, right?

00:47:08.000 Well, we need to think, you know, all of the people that are using these drugs, that are losing weight with them, whatever, we need to think about who the real sort of...

00:47:17.000 People suffering from this situation are who are the stock owners of telehealth companies.

00:47:22.000 If you own HIMSS or whatever, the stock's declined by a lot.

00:47:27.000 But, dude, I've been thinking so much about Ozempic recently, and I think the introduction of Ozempic...

00:47:33.000 Proves how much of a scam the body positivity movement was all along.

00:47:37.000 You look at the Golden Globes and all of the women that were supporting their bigger sisters, as soon as there was an easy route to being able to become a skeleton, they look like this.

00:47:49.000 Look like this guy here.

00:47:52.000 They all get those sucked in cheeks and the eye sockets suck in. 0.83

00:47:55.000 It looks really creepy.

00:47:58.000 It just shows how flimsy your principles are that it was easier for you to say, I can't win this particular game, therefore the game is rigged.

00:48:08.000 If you can't get what you want, you have to teach yourself to want what you can get and then proclaim to everybody else that they should get it too.

00:48:14.000 The Golden Globes, you've just got these fucking skeleton motherfuckers walking around. 0.94

00:48:23.000 Women of Hollywood are now facing the same dilemma that Dudes who go to the gym have had for decades. 1.00

00:48:31.000 Because it's pointless losing weight naturally.

00:48:33.000 Why would you lose weight naturally?

00:48:34.000 Because everybody's going to accuse you of having used Ozempic in any case.

00:48:37.000 Same thing as a dude.

00:48:38.000 If you gain weight as a guy and you get jacked, really jacked, if you really discipline yourself, you know, multiple years, progressive overload, time under tension, hitting your protein goals, getting enough sleep, what your friends and the people of the internet will say is, yeah, dude, easy if you take trend alone.

00:48:53.000 And it's the exact same.

00:48:54.000 What is the incentive for anybody to lose weight naturally?

00:48:58.000 Apart from I have some concerns about the drugs and the side effects and so on and so forth.

00:49:03.000 Socially, there is no incentive for you to lose weight naturally.

00:49:06.000 Remember when Adele lost all that weight?

00:49:08.000 Uh-huh.

00:49:08.000 They got mad at her.

00:49:09.000 In the before times.

00:49:10.000 She did it in the before times, dude.

00:49:11.000 Right. She did it hard. 1.00

00:49:13.000 Yeah, she did it the fucking, yeah, exactly. 1.00

00:49:14.000 The hard way.

00:49:15.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:49:15.000 Extreme difficulty.

00:49:16.000 Yeah. But yeah, now...

00:49:18.000 Now she's hot. 1.00

00:49:19.000 Do you remember when she did that Jamaica thing? 0.73

00:49:21.000 She came out and she had all of her hair done like this. 0.99

00:49:24.000 Yeah. But, yeah, there's this odd, like, Pascal's wager that you have to make where you think, I can either lose weight normally or without assistance.

00:49:33.000 It's going to be more difficult and people are going to accuse me of using Ozempic in any case.

00:49:37.000 Or I can just take it and it'll be easier and they'll accuse me of it.

00:49:41.000 Nothing changes.

00:49:42.000 Yeah. I'm in favor of Ozempic for people that are morbidly obese.

00:49:47.000 I think anything that can get you on the path.

00:49:50.000 And I think if you can combine that, if you can say, okay, this is what I'm doing, so I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to start an exercise program.

00:49:58.000 And then you wind up losing 30, 40 pounds.

00:50:01.000 You feel better.

00:50:01.000 You look better.

00:50:02.000 If you can continue this exercise program, you've at least put a healthy thing in your life along with Ozempic. 0.96

00:50:10.000 I think that's critical.

00:50:12.000 Because also that can mitigate some of the negative effects of...

00:50:16.000 One of the things that we're seeing is that people are losing a lot of muscle mass and a lot of bone mass.

00:50:20.000 As much as 30% of the weight that people are losing is muscle and bone.

00:50:24.000 And that, I think, could probably be mitigated with regular strength training.

00:50:28.000 You know, you're only hearing about this from people that aren't strength training.

00:50:31.000 Do not have a fitness regime.

00:50:32.000 Right, right.

00:50:33.000 Which is the majority of these people that need this drug in the first place.

00:50:35.000 That's how they got fat in the first place.

00:50:36.000 Right, right.

00:50:37.000 So Johan Hari did a really great book on this.

00:50:39.000 You had Johan on a bunch of times.

00:50:41.000 He wrote this book called Magic Pill.

00:50:42.000 And he's got...

00:50:43.000 Just a really nice takeaway.

00:50:45.000 He says, if you're under BMI of 30 and you're trying to lose weight, go fuck yourself.

00:50:50.000 If you're between 30 and 35, there's probably a value judgment you need to make.

00:50:55.000 And if you're over 35 BMI, the cost-benefit analysis seems to sort of work in your favor.

00:51:00.000 Yeah, people are losing more muscle and bone mass from using Ozempic than you would typically if you were not using that.

00:51:09.000 But I think that that's just largely a selection criteria for the sort of people that are using Ozempic to help them lose weight.

00:51:14.000 They're so heavily calorie restricted that they don't need to have a fitness.

00:51:19.000 I learned this.

00:51:23.000 Johan taught me this thing.

00:51:24.000 It's super interesting.

00:51:25.000 Gastric band surgery, after people have that, the suicide risk is pretty high.

00:51:31.000 And sometimes it's because of these...

00:51:34.000 Surgeons that leave the gauze in or leave a scalpel or a fucking cigar end in.

00:51:39.000 There's complications that can happen physically.

00:51:41.000 But the other thing that happens is these people used food as their coping mechanism for how they would feel better.

00:51:50.000 And their ability to eat and their appetite has gone away, but their psychological issues have not.

00:51:56.000 And they don't have a coping mechanism.

00:51:58.000 They've no longer got this outlet.

00:51:59.000 Right. And then there's the issue also, you're not going to feel as good because your body's not absorbing nutrients correctly.

00:52:05.000 You're missing some of your stomach.

00:52:08.000 It's like your stomach fills up quicker because they removed part of it.

00:52:12.000 That can't be good just for overall metabolic health.

00:52:17.000 You've diminished your body's ability to break down food.

00:52:20.000 That just can't be good.

00:52:21.000 And there's other ways to do it.

00:52:24.000 There's other ways to do it.

00:52:25.000 It's like there's a gambling term that you got to get better the same way you got sick.

00:52:30.000 So like say if you and I were playing pool and we're playing for $100 a game.

00:52:35.000 Okay. And you're up five games.

00:52:38.000 You're up 500 bucks.

00:52:39.000 And I say next game for 500 bucks.

00:52:42.000 And you go, no.

00:52:43.000 You got to get better the same way you got sick.

00:52:46.000 Oh, that's interesting.

00:52:46.000 You can't just win one game.

00:52:48.000 And now you're even.

00:52:50.000 And they're like, come on, what are you, pussy? 1.00

00:52:51.000 Are you scared?

00:52:52.000 Like, no.

00:52:53.000 That's not how this works.

00:52:54.000 You lost one at a time.

00:52:55.000 You're not gaining it all back.

00:52:55.000 You went down a dark road and you missed a lot of shots and now you're fucked.

00:53:00.000 And I'm not going to let you off the hook with one easy thing.

00:53:03.000 I might do that if it's like, okay, you put up a thousand and I'll put up 300.

00:53:11.000 We'll see that.

00:53:12.000 Yeah, if you reflect in the odds where we're at financially at the moment.

00:53:16.000 Yeah, you got a jacket in my favor while I'm willing to make a risk.

00:53:19.000 Yeah. Yeah, it's a strange – I think another thing with Ozempic, I have this theory that I think thin people are more prejudiced against people that use Ozempic than fat people are.

00:53:29.000 So typically you would say – stay with me.

00:53:33.000 I think you're right.

00:53:34.000 So you would have imagined – and this did happen.

00:53:38.000 Some areas of the body positivity movement said that it was denying their right to exist, that it was like erasure, you know, that you're losing your bigger brothers and sisters, I don't know.

00:53:51.000 But they're not actually threatened in the same way as in weight people are.

00:53:56.000 So I'm aware that losing weight through a Zempick is not the same as getting in shape, especially if you don't do the health and fitness regime, if you don't do the resistance exercise, you end up gone skinny fat, jowls, big cheeks, all that stuff. 0.99

00:54:08.000 But the signal of being in shape… Right. Disciplined, reliable.

00:54:22.000 Able to do hard things, self-motivated, consistent, stick to a routine, conscientious, industrious, all of these things.

00:54:30.000 So you look at somebody who's in shape and you think, I can infer from your body a lot of things about who you are beyond just your body.

00:54:38.000 I actually think that this is one of the huge benefits that most people don't realize about getting in shape if they want to attract a partner or whatever.

00:54:45.000 Sure, the body looks great when you take the clothes off, but what does it signal about your personality, about your underlying values?

00:54:52.000 Right. What you do.

00:54:53.000 Now, the problem with the introduction of easier routes to being in shape is that it's completely derogated the signal.

00:55:02.000 The signal is now no longer reliable.

00:55:04.000 Right. Because previously the signal said, I've had to jump through all of these different hoops.

00:55:08.000 Well, now, how do you know if they've jumped through all of those hoops or if they're just shooting a Zempick once a week? 0.99

00:55:12.000 Right. And I think that this explains why a lot of people who are in shape have a real visceral reaction.

00:55:19.000 Now, sure.

00:55:20.000 Lots of people are concerned about the drugs.

00:55:21.000 Fen-Fen was this thing in the 90s that fucked people up.

00:55:24.000 It was speed.

00:55:26.000 Yeah, I mean, it's a good way to lose weight.

00:55:29.000 I knew a girl who was on it. 0.99

00:55:30.000 She was a very pretty girl that was a little heavy.

00:55:34.000 And then got on the Fen-Fen and just wanted to talk to everybody.

00:55:37.000 Couldn't stop talking.

00:55:38.000 And got real thin.

00:55:40.000 I was like, this is crazy.

00:55:41.000 And then she developed a heart problem.

00:55:43.000 Yeah, that she kept for the rest of her life, I believe.

00:55:47.000 I don't know her anymore, but I ran into her a couple years later and she was telling me she has a heart problem.

00:55:52.000 There's been no free lunch in weight loss ever yet.

00:55:55.000 No. And I think that people are looking at...

00:55:58.000 The GLP-1s and thinking, where's the side effect?

00:56:00.000 When's it coming?

00:56:01.000 What's it going to do?

00:56:01.000 Well, there's tons of side effects.

00:56:02.000 It depends upon the person because obviously people are very different biologically.

00:56:07.000 Everyone has a different tolerance to alcohol.

00:56:09.000 People have different tolerances to foods.

00:56:11.000 And you're going to have different tolerances to medications.

00:56:13.000 And I have good friends that have had horrible side effects from Ozempic.

00:56:17.000 They tried it.

00:56:18.000 They got on it.

00:56:19.000 Terrible. Pancreatitis?

00:56:21.000 Yeah. I got a buddy of mine.

00:56:23.000 He was in bed for two weeks.

00:56:26.000 He was really sick.

00:56:27.000 And I know several other people that just feel terrible when they take it.

00:56:32.000 And they had to get off of it.

00:56:33.000 It was really fucking with them.

00:56:34.000 And then I know other people that have taken it.

00:56:36.000 Like a buddy of mine that works at the UFC.

00:56:38.000 We ran into him the other day.

00:56:39.000 I'm like, dude, you look fucking great.

00:56:41.000 And he's like, yeah, I got on an Olympic.

00:56:43.000 Fuck it.

00:56:43.000 I just went for it.

00:56:44.000 I said, hey, man.

00:56:45.000 And he had a whole plan.

00:56:46.000 He's going to get down a certain weight, and then he's going to taper off.

00:56:49.000 But he looked great.

00:56:51.000 He looked great.

00:56:52.000 You seen Alex Jones?

00:56:53.000 Yeah, but Alex is not on anything.

00:56:55.000 I know.

00:56:55.000 He's not on his epic at all.

00:56:57.000 He works with my friend Sean.

00:56:59.000 On it?

00:56:59.000 Yeah. I've been watching him train.

00:57:01.000 I've been watching him train on a Tuesday.

00:57:03.000 Not watching him train.

00:57:04.000 He trains when I train.

00:57:05.000 I'm not following Alex Jones around.

00:57:08.000 Likely story.

00:57:09.000 Getting after it.

00:57:10.000 I know.

00:57:10.000 That's exactly what someone from the deep state would say.

00:57:12.000 Do you know him?

00:57:13.000 Did you see him there?

00:57:14.000 I've spied him over the far side.

00:57:16.000 You never had a conversation with him?

00:57:18.000 I once saw him when I did Tim Pool's show in the RV outside of the Infowars.

00:57:26.000 Oh yeah, I did that.

00:57:27.000 Yeah, it was the same week.

00:57:28.000 That was the first week I was ever in Austin.

00:57:30.000 It was three and a bit years ago.

00:57:31.000 I remember that live stream.

00:57:33.000 That was fun.

00:57:34.000 Alex is a lovely person.

00:57:35.000 He really is.

00:57:36.000 He's working really hard in the gym.

00:57:38.000 If he just had that one thing that he didn't talk about, that's it.

00:57:41.000 It's that one thing.

00:57:42.000 Everything else he's been mostly right about.

00:57:44.000 You know what I should have said?

00:57:45.000 Alex Jones is like the fucking patient zero for...

00:57:49.000 If you lose weight by going to the gym and working out and changing your diet, people are just going to say it was a Zen pic.

00:57:54.000 No, people think he's a totally different person.

00:57:56.000 They think they've replaced Alex Jones with someone else.

00:57:59.000 Did David Icke have a pop at Alex Jones recently?

00:58:03.000 Did he?

00:58:04.000 Who did David Icke get in trouble with, Jamie?

00:58:06.000 Was that...

00:58:07.000 I feel like there was some...

00:58:09.000 It was somebody else in that sort of a world.

00:58:12.000 But yeah, I mean, if the reptile people...

00:58:14.000 It gets a bit reptile-y when you get down to the lower body fat percentages.

00:58:17.000 David, I saw something.

00:58:19.000 He got upset that I've never had him on the show.

00:58:20.000 And it's just the reptile stuff.

00:58:22.000 It's just the shapeshifter stuff. 0.98

00:58:24.000 I would still have him on.

00:58:25.000 I think fascinating just to try to pick some of those ideas apart or listen to them.

00:58:31.000 Even if you don't...

00:58:32.000 Believe in the ideas.

00:58:34.000 What's interesting is how does somebody arrive at them?

00:58:36.000 That's what's fascinating to me.

00:58:37.000 When I do my show, I speak to someone and I'm like, I want to understand the psychology of how you have arrived at this particular position.

00:58:44.000 Well, imagine if it's real.

00:58:47.000 I mean, if shapeshifters were real, if there really are evil reptilian aliens and they've infiltrated our society and they've been pulling the strings forever and only a couple of people knew.

00:59:00.000 How ridiculous would that idea be?

00:59:02.000 How ridiculous?

00:59:03.000 It would be so ridiculous.

00:59:05.000 But is an alien, shapeshifter, reptile person, is that any weirder than the most recent theory that our entire universe is taking place inside of a black hole that's in another universe? 0.69

00:59:21.000 Yeah, there's recent calculations that are leading these...

00:59:26.000 I guess it would be astrophysicists.

00:59:28.000 Like, who would be studying this?

00:59:30.000 See if you can find it, Jamie.

00:59:32.000 It's the most bizarre headline.

00:59:35.000 Because you're like, what the fuck are you saying?

00:59:37.000 Like, the whole universe is inside of a black hole?

00:59:40.000 New NASA data hints we could be living inside a black hole.

00:59:43.000 Great! Now, is that...

00:59:46.000 Isn't that weirder than reptile people?

00:59:49.000 Because reptile people...

00:59:50.000 Those are the two choices.

00:59:51.000 Reptile people's not that weird, right?

00:59:54.000 Like... Octopi have the ability to completely transform their appearance and instantaneously adapt to an environment.

01:00:03.000 Why wouldn't we assume to some super advanced species from another planet that we would be horrified if we saw their real face? 0.77

01:00:10.000 They'd just transform and look like the Queen of England. 1.00

01:00:13.000 Yeah, and go sideways like that.

01:00:14.000 Yeah, fuck.

01:00:15.000 Do you know what a Boltzmann brain is?

01:00:17.000 Have you ever heard of this?

01:00:18.000 No. Okay, so in an infinite universe, infinite.

01:00:22.000 There is only, let's say, the size of your brain.

01:00:25.000 It's like, whatever, 20 centimeters cubed or something, maybe 30 centimeters cubed.

01:00:29.000 Inside that space, there's only so many ways that you can put matter together so that it creates anything.

01:00:37.000 There's a limited number of ways that matter can come together with different elements, different structures, different everything like that.

01:00:42.000 So Boltzmann brain suggests that across an infinite universe, there will be a brain the exact same as yours, the exact structure as yours, Comes into existence for a moment and then goes away.

01:00:55.000 And the reason that you could be experiencing the world that you are now, all of your memories, your past, your history, the person that you think you are, is that you are a Boltzmann brain that just comes into existence and then goes.

01:01:07.000 Ludwig Boltzmann.

01:01:07.000 Why do you come into existence and then go away?

01:01:10.000 Why don't you just exist somewhere else?

01:01:12.000 You could exist somewhere else, but this brain appears just spontaneously because in an infinite universe, there are only so many different ways that you can piece matter together.

01:01:22.000 Right. And it's the monkey's typewriter thing.

01:01:25.000 It's the exact same as that, but for the way that matter is constructed.

01:01:28.000 It's basically like a brain in a vat idea, but using infinite physics to kind of explain it.

01:01:33.000 The way it was explained to me is that if the universe is truly infinite, not only is there another version of you.

01:01:41.000 But there is another version of you that did the exact same thing you have done every step of the way.

01:01:49.000 Every time you sneezed, every hesitation before you spoke your mind, every time you almost went into traffic when you didn't realize their light was still red, all of those things have happened in the exact same order an infinite number of times.

01:02:05.000 And every...

01:02:08.000 Possible, conceivable variation in between.

01:02:11.000 That you wore red instead of blue.

01:02:12.000 Yep. That you turned left instead of right.

01:02:14.000 Yep. Went trans instead of straight. 0.99

01:02:17.000 All of it.

01:02:18.000 All of it.

01:02:19.000 That you live in a totalitarian environment, that you live in a utopia, that the Germans won the war. 0.96

01:02:27.000 Yeah, all that.

01:02:28.000 Everything. Everything that could possibly be different would be different in every possible scenario.

01:02:35.000 That's what infinite means.

01:02:36.000 It means it's so vast.

01:02:38.000 Like the craziest one to me was the concept that inside every galaxy, in the center of every galaxy is a supermassive black hole.

01:02:47.000 And that supermassive black hole is approximately one half of 1% of the mass of the entire galaxy.

01:02:52.000 If you go into that supermassive black hole, so there's hundreds of billions of galaxies, right?

01:02:57.000 Inside that supermassive black hole is an entirely another universe, filled with all sorts of different galaxies that have supermassive black holes in them.

01:03:08.000 You go into one of those, another universe, filled.

01:03:11.000 Supermassive black holes, another universe, filled.

01:03:15.000 All supermassive black holes, each one, another universe.

01:03:18.000 It's just a WinZip file all the way down.

01:03:20.000 Why is that weirder than the universe is infinite?

01:03:23.000 Why is that weirder?

01:03:24.000 I mean, just the weirdness of what it is is so fucking insane.

01:03:28.000 The idea that it's infinite or that there's an infinite multiverses and infinite versions of these things inside black holes and in all sorts of ways that we haven't even really figured out yet.

01:03:42.000 That's not that much weirder than what's real.

01:03:45.000 What's real is insane.

01:03:47.000 What's real is that the whole thing was smaller than the head of a pen.

01:03:51.000 And for no understandable reason, it expanded instantaneously and became the universe that you see in the sky today.

01:03:59.000 Okay. Okay.

01:04:01.000 What the fuck are you saying?

01:04:04.000 McKenna had a great line about that, that science requires of you but one miracle.

01:04:09.000 The Big Bang.

01:04:10.000 It's a miracle.

01:04:13.000 What is it if it's not that?

01:04:15.000 I mean, it's a thing of science, yes.

01:04:17.000 Okay, so if you can study all of the matter and you study all of the forces and all the energy and all the reasons why matter coalesces or matter expands, yes, you could probably, given enough time and enough quantum computing power, figure out what's causing everything to compress down smaller than the head of a pin and then explode.

01:04:41.000 It's still crazy.

01:04:43.000 Even if you had some scientific explanation for it, it's fucking insane.

01:04:48.000 I got into supervoids.

01:04:51.000 Oh, yeah.

01:04:52.000 The Buetta's supervoid.

01:04:54.000 Yeah. So areas of the universe that have big absences of matter way more than there should be.

01:05:01.000 Thank you.

01:05:02.000 The Buetta's Supervoid is the biggest one.

01:05:05.000 I think a ton 6118 or something is one of the biggest stars or one of the biggest black holes.

01:05:11.000 And then this Buetta's Supervoid is...

01:05:14.000 Because you would expect homogeneity across the universe.

01:05:17.000 Things would be distributed pretty evenly.

01:05:19.000 So what's this big hole?

01:05:21.000 Here, Jamie, can you try and find a...

01:05:24.000 I love the videos that show you the size of Earth and the size of our sun and the size of other suns.

01:05:31.000 You realize just how fucking insignificant you are.

01:05:33.000 You get to suns that are as big as our galaxy.

01:05:36.000 What the fuck?

01:05:37.000 Yeah. What the fuck?

01:05:39.000 Yeah. I don't know if there's suns that big, but there's definitely suns as big as our solar system.

01:05:45.000 Well, looking at the night sky gives you a really wonderful...

01:05:49.000 It reminds you just how puny and insignificant you are.

01:05:52.000 I think that's a giant problem with our society is that light pollution keeps us from seeing that all the time.

01:05:57.000 The mysterious hole in the universe that's billions of times larger than the Milky Way.

01:06:04.000 So go one left, a list of voids, Jimmy.

01:06:07.000 Yeah, that one.

01:06:08.000 Just big holes.

01:06:09.000 Yeah. So you should not have, it should be more evenly distributed.

01:06:14.000 Yeah. And yeah, the Buetta is void.

01:06:17.000 Huge lack.

01:06:20.000 Yeah. In the middle of...

01:06:23.000 It's so cool.

01:06:24.000 Imagine you take a left turn in a spaceship.

01:06:26.000 Fuck! Not here.

01:06:27.000 Not the Buetta Supervoid.

01:06:28.000 Not again.

01:06:29.000 God damn it.

01:06:30.000 You can't land for 100 million years.

01:06:33.000 Yeah. Dude, I had Matthew McConaughey on the show toward the back end of last year and we talked about Interstellar's 10th year anniversary.

01:06:40.000 That show is still...

01:06:41.000 That movie is still...

01:06:43.000 My favorite movie of all time.

01:06:44.000 It's an amazing movie.

01:06:45.000 I just saw it again a couple weeks ago.

01:06:47.000 Me too.

01:06:47.000 It was incredible.

01:06:48.000 It's so good.

01:06:49.000 It's so weird.

01:06:51.000 Such a weird movie.

01:06:52.000 Nolan's a fucking king.

01:06:53.000 He's a wizard.

01:06:54.000 Everything that he does?

01:06:55.000 Yep. What's the new one?

01:06:57.000 What's his new movie?

01:06:58.000 The Odyssey, I think.

01:06:59.000 Oh, yeah.

01:07:01.000 What is The Odyssey?

01:07:02.000 Like the Homer.

01:07:04.000 Oh, God, really?

01:07:05.000 I don't know that story either, so I'm kind of...

01:07:08.000 Yeah, I don't either.

01:07:09.000 Part of me knows that I should have read it, and part of me is glad that I didn't, so I get to...

01:07:12.000 I don't know how it finishes.

01:07:14.000 I don't know how it ends.

01:07:15.000 Yeah. I think I probably read it in high school, but I don't remember at all.

01:07:19.000 This is all we got, I think, is this picture of Matt Damon in this outfit.

01:07:22.000 Oh, he's going to kill it.

01:07:23.000 There are already complaints that it's not historically accurate.

01:07:26.000 Why? Because of Matt Damon?

01:07:28.000 No, because that's not what the armor would have looked like, apparently.

01:07:30.000 He wouldn't have been able to see his face, apparently.

01:07:33.000 Oh, really?

01:07:34.000 Yeah, but not if you make a movie.

01:07:35.000 Makes for a shit movie, though.

01:07:35.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:07:36.000 They're complaining already.

01:07:38.000 Yeah, you can't always be historically accurate, I guess.

01:07:44.000 Yeah, but that's all I got so far.

01:07:45.000 Tom Holland, Robert Pattinson, nice.

01:07:48.000 Absolutely stacked.

01:07:50.000 Did you see Matt Damon do Schultz's trailer?

01:07:55.000 Yes, I did, yeah.

01:07:58.000 So fucking good.

01:07:59.000 I have to say, man, that...

01:08:01.000 Schultz's most recent special is one of the best things.

01:08:05.000 I've got to shout out Andrew Schultz.

01:08:06.000 That was one of the best things that I've seen in so long.

01:08:09.000 I thought it was fucking phenomenal.

01:08:11.000 It made me cry when I saw it live here in Austin.

01:08:12.000 Twice. I cried twice.

01:08:14.000 And then I saw it again before I had him on the show the other week.

01:08:18.000 In the back of an Uber, trying to not let the taxi driver see that I'm welling up, he's talking about...

01:08:24.000 His wife says something to him where she says, the thing is, honey, you don't have problems.

01:08:30.000 We have problems.

01:08:31.000 I was like, oh, it's just so lovely.

01:08:34.000 And him talking about his experience trying to get pregnant and all of that stuff caused me to go and get sperm count done.

01:08:42.000 I'm not trying to get anybody pregnant, not the moment. 0.99

01:08:44.000 How old are you?

01:08:46.000 37. Do you have a number where you'd like to start breeding?

01:08:51.000 Breeding? Within the next few years, I want to start a family soon.

01:08:54.000 Do you have a gal? 0.99

01:08:55.000 Yeah, at the moment.

01:08:56.000 How long have you been with this gal?

01:08:58.000 Six months.

01:08:59.000 Did you ever go on a trip with her?

01:09:01.000 Yeah. Yeah, you got to go on a long trip with them.

01:09:03.000 Well, I think six months might be a little bit early just yet.

01:09:06.000 No, if you want to find out what's up, you got to go on a trip.

01:09:10.000 Oh, you mean to work out compatibility?

01:09:12.000 Yeah, you got to see how they deal with travel, how they deal with stress, how they deal with restaurant.

01:09:18.000 Can they keep up their act when you're with them 24 hours a day for weeks at a time?

01:09:22.000 It was when I actually did do a week-long trip in Jamaica.

01:09:27.000 And had to go from Montego Bay to Kingston twice to get my visa renewed.

01:09:30.000 Now traveling through Jamaican traffic with somebody will really tell you an awful lot. 1.00

01:09:35.000 So yeah, you're talking about like a Navy SEAL Hell Week of trying to throw difficult shit in that.

01:09:39.000 So that worked.

01:09:40.000 You just need to see what people are like when they're with you all the time.

01:09:44.000 Because people put on a show.

01:09:46.000 They put on a show.

01:09:47.000 You're a handsome guy.

01:09:48.000 You're successful.

01:09:49.000 They want to impress you.

01:09:51.000 They want to pretend they're something that you would love.

01:09:54.000 And then maybe they have ideas of morphing you and changing you over time.

01:09:58.000 You know, like you get a car.

01:10:00.000 I think it's pretty good, but I like to update the engine.

01:10:02.000 I do some shit to the tires.

01:10:03.000 Maybe change the way the interior looks.

01:10:05.000 You start changing it, and then all of a sudden Chris is wearing different clothes.

01:10:08.000 What's going on, Chris?

01:10:09.000 Gotta be careful.

01:10:10.000 I put these glasses on.

01:10:11.000 That's why it happened.

01:10:12.000 But yeah, I decided to go and get a sperm count thing done.

01:10:15.000 You know what a varica seal is?

01:10:17.000 No. Okay.

01:10:18.000 Dude, this is something that I think every single guy needs to know about.

01:10:23.000 When you go through puberty, the way that the veins sort of form that blow heat off from your balls, they can form in a way where they just don't get rid of the heat that efficiently.

01:10:35.000 Not enough.

01:10:36.000 And it's in 15% of men, so it's super, super common, but 50% of men that go to urologists have got this.

01:10:43.000 And I go in and I've had these balls my entire life.

01:10:47.000 I've had these balls.

01:10:48.000 Thank you.

01:10:49.000 They're not transplants.

01:10:51.000 I've had these balls.

01:10:52.000 Since puberty, and I found out at the age of 36, oh, you've got a medium varicocele.

01:10:57.000 So the mad thing about this is, you'll know this, if you take testosterone, it plummets your sperm count.

01:11:03.000 So typically testosterone and sperm kind of work against each other in that kind of a direction. 0.68

01:11:09.000 This is the one thing where if you get it fixed, both go up.

01:11:13.000 So the mean change in testosterone is 180 points.

01:11:17.000 How do they fix it?

01:11:19.000 It's surgery.

01:11:20.000 It's a small surgery where they do an incision in your groin and they just fix the vasculature.

01:11:25.000 Balls and surgery are two things that I don't like together.

01:11:29.000 I like both of them.

01:11:30.000 I don't think they should be together.

01:11:32.000 Never the twain she'll meet.

01:11:34.000 Ball surgery is scary.

01:11:36.000 Do you know that you can get a dick transplant if you lose your dick, but you cannot get ball transplants. 0.72

01:11:41.000 You know why?

01:11:43.000 No. Because you will carry the DNA of the original person.

01:11:47.000 So, say if I die and you get my balls, you'll have my DNA, you'll have my kids. 0.66

01:11:53.000 So why can't I have your balls? 1.00

01:11:54.000 Well, you could if I gave you permission, maybe, but it's unethical.

01:11:57.000 Why don't we swap one ball each?

01:12:00.000 It's like tossing a coin.

01:12:01.000 See whose kids make it?

01:12:02.000 Oh, it was Lefty that day.

01:12:04.000 Lefty was the one that came out that day.

01:12:05.000 Goddammit, all my kids are Chris's!

01:12:06.000 What the fuck?

01:12:08.000 You'd come out speaking British.

01:12:08.000 That would be fun if we both, like, if you had an elective surgery to swap balls with a good buddy.

01:12:14.000 Like, I love you so much, I want to swap a ball with you.

01:12:16.000 Yep. We just don't know which one it's going to be today.

01:12:18.000 You never know.

01:12:18.000 It's like, because I had a gay couple that were friends that lived down the street from me, and they had a kid with a surrogate, and they shot their jizz into a cup and mixed it up.

01:12:28.000 So they didn't know who's going to be the one who has the kid.

01:12:31.000 Oh, wow.

01:12:32.000 Yeah. Two men, one cup. 0.98

01:12:34.000 They had to do it twice, too, because the first time, the lady kept the kid. 1.00

01:12:38.000 They paid her.

01:12:39.000 They did the whole thing.

01:12:40.000 At the end of it, she decided she wanted to keep the baby.

01:12:42.000 Dude, the ethics of surrogacy are really interesting.

01:12:44.000 It's weird.

01:12:45.000 It's a weird thing.

01:12:47.000 You're hiring someone to have your baby for you, and then wealthy people are doing it so they don't get their cooch stretched out. 1.00

01:12:54.000 That was the Kardashian approach.

01:12:56.000 Allegedly, that's why she did it. 1.00

01:12:58.000 Well, maybe she didn't want to carry babies anymore. 1.00

01:13:00.000 She had a couple of them the normal way.

01:13:02.000 But it's like so much of what the child experiences in the womb, it leads to this, I would imagine, this bonding thing with the woman.

01:13:13.000 The baby's inside of you.

01:13:14.000 You remember feeling the baby inside of you.

01:13:16.000 It grows inside of you.

01:13:17.000 Then it comes out of you and you raise it and it breastfeeds.

01:13:21.000 It's like...

01:13:22.000 This bond is...

01:13:24.000 I understand surrogacy if someone can't get pregnant, if this is the only way you could have kids. 0.96

01:13:28.000 I'm not saying don't do it.

01:13:29.000 But I'm saying it's fucking strange.

01:13:32.000 Because this other person is...

01:13:34.000 Whatever anxiety they have, fear, their cortisol levels, if they have domestic abuse in their house, all that information is being transferred to the child.

01:13:46.000 Pregnancy doesn't just make a kid, it also makes a mother. 1.00

01:13:48.000 Yeah. And it's dangerous.

01:13:52.000 I'm so confused.

01:13:52.000 I mean, test you babies.

01:13:54.000 What happens if we can just create artificial wombs? 1.00

01:13:56.000 You know something that's weird?

01:13:57.000 I know that people don't get, they don't choose to be born, but somebody chooses whether or not these two sets of DNA are going to come together.

01:14:07.000 If you've just got sperm donor after sperm donor and egg donor after egg donor and artificial wombs, it gets to the stage where people kind of aren't choosing who's coming into reality that much anymore.

01:14:18.000 Well, that is definitely the future.

01:14:20.000 I mean, look at plummeting sperm counts.

01:14:23.000 Look at rising miscarriage rates.

01:14:26.000 Look at the problems that people are having with microplastics and the disruption of the endocrine system and pesticides and herbicides and all these different ubiquitous chemicals that are affecting people's sperm counts and fertility.

01:14:41.000 It's a real factor, and it's plummeting.

01:14:46.000 If you look at human beings from the last 60, 70 years, and you look at males in America, where their sperm count used to be and where it is now, it's rapidly decreasing.

01:14:57.000 There's a lot of factors, sedentary lifestyle, processed foods, but there's also environmental factors that seem to be altering the actual way a child develops in the womb.

01:15:08.000 And this is Dr. Shanna Swan's work.

01:15:10.000 Countdown. Yeah, which is an incredible, just...

01:15:15.000 It's an incredible book, but it's just an incredible fact that the plastics that we use from microwave foods and water bottles and all that stuff is literally changing the development of children.

01:15:28.000 It's changing the size of their testicles, the size of their penises, the... 0.99

01:15:32.000 Anogenital distance.

01:15:34.000 Yeah, yeah, the taint shrinks.

01:15:36.000 It's really crazy stuff, and it replicates what happens in mammals when they do these studies with rats and hamsters, and the same things happen.

01:15:45.000 A third of all children globally are going to be obese by 2050.

01:15:50.000 Jesus. That's the current trajectory, and one billion people worldwide are obese.

01:15:56.000 So the number one...

01:15:58.000 Form of malnutrition globally is obesity, not starvation.

01:16:02.000 There's twice as many people that are obese than are starving.

01:16:04.000 That's crazy.

01:16:05.000 If that's not a comment on problems of abundance as opposed to problems of scarcity.

01:16:10.000 Yeah, it's not even abundance, though.

01:16:12.000 It's the food is so calorie-rich and filled with shit, you know, that you just get so fat so quick.

01:16:20.000 Like, if you're eating nothing but junk food and drinking nothing but soda, as I sit here with a large Diet Coke.

01:16:26.000 Which I usually don't drink, but I do occasionally.

01:16:30.000 That is, like a Diet Coke at least doesn't have the calories, but if you're having a large Coke like that, like if you have a Coke like this, what is this, a liter?

01:16:38.000 This is probably a liter.

01:16:39.000 750 maybe, or a liter?

01:16:40.000 Yeah, it's a liter.

01:16:41.000 So how much sugar is in one liter of Coca-Cola?

01:16:46.000 Let's find that out.

01:16:47.000 Well, there's nothing in that one, right?

01:16:48.000 Which is why it's a Diet Coke.

01:16:49.000 Yeah, it's just brain cancer.

01:16:54.000 Donald Rumsfeld approved brain cancer.

01:16:56.000 94.7 grams of sugar.

01:16:59.000 94.7 grams.

01:17:03.000 And people polish these things off every day.

01:17:06.000 Someone's polishing off a two liter of Mountain Dew listening to this as we speak.

01:17:09.000 So that's probably double that.

01:17:11.000 So that's hundreds, hundreds of grams of sugar.

01:17:15.000 The big gulps.

01:17:16.000 The average American is fatter than the average American pig now.

01:17:23.000 It's true.

01:17:24.000 It's true.

01:17:26.000 Average American man, 28% body fat.

01:17:28.000 Average American woman, 40% body fat. 1.00

01:17:30.000 Average American pig, 15 to 25% body fat.

01:17:33.000 Oh, my God.

01:17:34.000 Yep. I would have thought it would be higher than 28%.

01:17:37.000 I think we're doing pretty good.

01:17:38.000 For guys?

01:17:39.000 Yeah. Yeah.

01:17:40.000 Well, I guess it's offset by, like...

01:17:42.000 Brian Johnson and all of the Olympic people that are just super shredded.

01:17:46.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:17:47.000 And then there was that other thing about you talking about kids, that some huge percentage of 18 to 24-year-olds couldn't join the military.

01:17:54.000 Yeah. Like 70% because of mental health or obesity or drug use or something.

01:18:01.000 And half of them had two or more of these excuses for why you couldn't do it.

01:18:06.000 And I think if you track over time...

01:18:08.000 The amount of military service that people have had, so much less.

01:18:12.000 It's so much less.

01:18:13.000 And I wonder how many of the issues that we're seeing, even women being attracted to guys, I think that what you want to do as a guy is try and signal...

01:18:22.000 Again, the same as going to the gym.

01:18:24.000 Reliable, orderly, conscientious.

01:18:26.000 I can be on time.

01:18:27.000 I can do hard things.

01:18:28.000 This is one of the proposed explanations for the baby boom, was that a lot of men that did come back from war were signaling their eligibility, signaling how reliable they could be, and it made it easier for women to be attracted in that way.

01:18:41.000 That makes sense.

01:18:43.000 I mean, imagine a woman, you're going to get pregnant, and so you're going to be, you could work for a little while, but towards the end you're not going to be able to work. 0.98

01:18:51.000 And then after the child, it's going to be very difficult to work.

01:18:53.000 So you're reliant on this other person.

01:18:57.000 How well do you know this person?

01:18:59.000 Did you do that 10-day vacation in Jamaica with that guy?

01:19:02.000 Did you drive from Montego Bay to Kingston twice in bad traffic?

01:19:05.000 Do you know what happens when he makes mistakes?

01:19:07.000 Does he blame other people?

01:19:08.000 Or does he apologize?

01:19:11.000 Who is he?

01:19:12.000 You know, because all that shit's going to come up when you get four hours sleep because the baby's crying.

01:19:16.000 And then, you know, maybe he doesn't like his job anymore.

01:19:19.000 He wants to quit.

01:19:20.000 And you're like, you can't quit, motherfucker. 0.97

01:19:22.000 You have to feed us.

01:19:24.000 You have to take care of a family now.

01:19:26.000 You're not going to just quit.

01:19:28.000 What are you talking about?

01:19:29.000 You don't like your job?

01:19:31.000 Show up.

01:19:32.000 And I can't imagine relying on another person like that.

01:19:37.000 I mean, this is why women are so picky. 1.00

01:19:39.000 Like, when you see that...

01:19:41.000 80% of the women are attracted to 20% of the men.

01:19:44.000 And that's what that is.

01:19:46.000 What did you expect?

01:19:47.000 What did you expect?

01:19:48.000 It's hard to have your shit together.

01:19:50.000 It's hard to be kicking ass in this fucking complicated, bizarre world that we live in.

01:19:56.000 It's hard.

01:19:56.000 So for a woman...

01:19:58.000 Of course.

01:19:59.000 What about personality?

01:20:01.000 You're a fucking lazy bitch. 1.00

01:20:03.000 That's part of your personality.

01:20:05.000 Part of the reason why you're not successful at 40 years of age has to be you.

01:20:11.000 Has to be.

01:20:12.000 Some of it has to be.

01:20:13.000 I mean, it could be a fucking avalanche of bad luck, one thing after the other, but...

01:20:20.000 I would like to see that you're making progress towards a better direction.

01:20:24.000 But if you're stuck in this mindset of, you know, the world fucks me over, it's like, no one's gonna want to be with you.

01:20:33.000 No one's gonna want to have children with you. 0.97

01:20:35.000 No one's gonna be willing to rely on you to support a family.

01:20:39.000 Like, you have to get your shit together.

01:20:41.000 And you have to also be attractive, which is just dumb luck.

01:20:44.000 Like, you have the dumb luck of genetics.

01:20:46.000 You got a good face.

01:20:48.000 Ooh! You know, you got a good body.

01:20:50.000 A lot of that's genetics, too.

01:20:52.000 You know, like, what they like and what they don't like is mostly about breeding.

01:20:58.000 It's mostly about, is this person reliable to breed with?

01:21:03.000 It's interesting to think about the...

01:21:06.000 You mentioned earlier on about...

01:21:08.000 Going to the gym is right wing and liking fast cars is right wing and all the rest of it.

01:21:12.000 The number of liberal women that are struggling, I think, to find an eligible partner is going up because they just can't find a guy that will hold the door open for them, that will treat them like a lady, that will try and be the protector-provider-procreator thing. 1.00

01:21:23.000 You go, you're talking about a conservative.

01:21:26.000 You're talking about somebody who's more traditional in that way.

01:21:30.000 And I get worried.

01:21:32.000 I sort of talk a lot about this stuff on the show, and I get worried about not helping men.

01:21:37.000 To improve in this sort of zero-sum view of empathy that if you give some attention to men and the way that they're struggling, that it takes it away from some other more deserving group.

01:21:49.000 So a lot of the time, if someone's falling behind, 50 years ago, Title IX gets introduced, right, for women. 0.99

01:21:54.000 It's not enough women in higher education. 1.00

01:21:56.000 It's not enough women expediting them through socioeconomic status. 1.00

01:22:00.000 50 years later, they've...

01:22:04.000 Oh, yeah.

01:22:23.000 up, you look across and there are fewer and fewer men over there.

01:22:27.000 And what you think is, okay, well, typically...

01:22:30.000 If a group is falling behind in society, we don't tell them to pick themselves up by their bootstraps.

01:22:35.000 We spend billions of money in taxpayer-funded charities and think tanks to try and work out what's going on and to try and bring them along for the ride.

01:22:44.000 That's not happening with men.

01:22:45.000 Because vestigially, for so long, men had it so good.

01:22:50.000 And now it feels like twisting the knife in some sort of karmic retribution, in a way.

01:22:57.000 Like, this is penance.

01:22:59.000 That you're paying.

01:23:00.000 But a lot of guys, you can look at the number of CEOs, and sure, guys that outperform on the top end, yep.

01:23:06.000 But that's not necessarily due to privilege.

01:23:08.000 It's because putting yourself in that position to do what you need to do to get yourself to the position of being a founder, being a CEO, running a successful company is so fucking insane that most women would just choose to not go and do that. 0.99

01:23:19.000 You're talking about outliers.

01:23:21.000 Evolutionary psychology says that men are nature's playthings, that there's more variability.

01:23:26.000 There's more male geniuses, but there's also more male retards. 1.00

01:23:28.000 And it's all well and good pointing to the number of CEOs and Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk and all the rest of it.

01:23:35.000 I think the education system...

01:24:03.000 For young boys, it's really, really tough.

01:24:05.000 Getting them to sit in a classroom still for six hours a day, it seems like females are just better at doing that. 1.00

01:24:12.000 Young girls are more effective at a sort of brain-based economy, highlighting and planning ahead of the homework that they've got to do and the assignments and stuff like that.

01:24:22.000 And you just roll that forward.

01:24:23.000 Two women for every one man completing a four-year U.S. college degree. 0.99

01:24:26.000 And I'm not saying, oh, let's rip women out of the classroom and out of the boardroom and put them back into the kitchen. 1.00

01:24:32.000 Obviously not.

01:24:33.000 Obviously that's not what either of us are saying.

01:24:35.000 What do you think is the cause of it?

01:24:36.000 Like, what do you think is the reason why more men aren't succeeding and getting college degrees and more men aren't going out and making as much money in their 20s?

01:24:46.000 I think that the current environment does not necessarily lend itself to the disposition that men have got.

01:24:53.000 So they're less conscientious than women from a personality standpoint on average. 1.00

01:24:59.000 That means that it's really difficult, comparatively, on average, for you to be able to remind yourself that you need to do this sort of homework.

01:25:05.000 Men are more predisposed to addiction.

01:25:07.000 They're more predisposed to using recreational drugs.

01:25:09.000 They're more predisposed to being in jail, to all of the sort of gang stuff that people get drawn into.

01:25:15.000 It's just more likely for guys.

01:25:16.000 There are more routes that men can be pulled away in that sort of a manner.

01:25:21.000 And on top of it, I don't think that there is a particularly inspiring vision for what...

01:25:28.000 You said earlier on about fitness right wing, fast cars right wing.

01:25:32.000 There was this thread on Reddit, I think, in a left-leaning forum that said, people of the left, can you give me a good example of who you think a positive male role model would be?

01:25:43.000 The top voted one was Aragon from Lord of the Rings.

01:25:50.000 What about Fabio?

01:25:52.000 You've had to go to a fantasy land in order to be able to find somebody who's sufficiently pure.

01:25:58.000 You know, this is one of the issues that we see on the left, which is there is no level of purity or the level of purity you need to be able to get to is so high.

01:26:07.000 It doesn't exist.

01:26:08.000 How many people have gone from left to right?

01:26:12.000 I left the left type thing like that.

01:26:14.000 Quite a few.

01:26:14.000 How many people have gone from right to left?

01:26:16.000 Very few.

01:26:17.000 Why? Because if you have got a slightly fettered past, if you maybe said things in the past that didn't agree with where we are now, the right will welcome you with open arms.

01:26:28.000 But the left one.

01:26:29.000 Why do you think that is?

01:26:31.000 I think that there is a level of puritanism on the left where they are unprepared to accept people who have had positions that they don't agree with.

01:26:44.000 There seems to be this odd purity spiral where they're constantly trying to point out people who are no longer agreeing with the ideology du jour of the modern world.

01:26:54.000 What do you think?

01:26:55.000 Why do you think it is?

01:26:56.000 I think that's probably a factor.

01:26:58.000 I also think that corporate America, the whole structure of it with human resources and people working together, it's not necessarily what men want.

01:27:12.000 If you want men to work in the best environment possible for men, they would work with mostly men. 1.00

01:27:18.000 And they would probably...

01:27:20.000 Be able to speak and communicate in a way that they did on Mad Men.

01:27:25.000 You know, they'd act like men.

01:27:28.000 Like, men like to act like men.

01:27:30.000 Most men that are involved in corporate life act like some strange character that is what a man is supposed to be.

01:27:40.000 Especially if you're supposed to espouse all the latest social justice, you know, whatever the mantra is that you have to repeat.

01:27:49.000 If you have to rigidly adhere to an ideology in order to fit in with your corporate environment, you're going to do that.

01:27:57.000 And you're going to be trapped in that.

01:27:59.000 And you're going to just...

01:28:00.000 Desperately want some escape.

01:28:01.000 That's why CEOs wind up going to dominatrix and getting fucking ball gagged and kicked in the balls and shit. 0.55

01:28:07.000 Like, what do you think that is?

01:28:08.000 It's like they need something, something wild to escape from the mundane existence that they have in the corporate world.

01:28:16.000 That's the person that's in control all the time, so privately I need to be out of control.

01:28:19.000 It's just not compatible for most men.

01:28:22.000 Like, that type of environment, a work office environment, it's not compatible.

01:28:29.000 Nobody wants to do that.

01:28:31.000 What you want is the rewards of that.

01:28:33.000 You want the money.

01:28:35.000 You want success.

01:28:36.000 You want status.

01:28:37.000 You want all those things.

01:28:38.000 You want the corner office.

01:28:39.000 But what you don't want is to work in that environment.

01:28:42.000 If you could choose to make the same kind of money doing things that you love to do, having fun, like if all these corporate CEOs could make as much money playing golf, I bet they would play golf.

01:28:52.000 I don't think they really want to be doing that.

01:28:55.000 They're doing that because it's the way in order.

01:28:58.000 It's the way to succeed and the way to make money.

01:29:01.000 And it feels like hell.

01:29:02.000 It feels like hell.

01:29:03.000 You're stuck in traffic every day.

01:29:06.000 You're stuck in the office.

01:29:07.000 You're not working eight hours a day if you want to really make it.

01:29:09.000 And this is why the wage gap between men and women was such an insidious lie.

01:29:15.000 Because they were always saying, women make 75 cents to every dollar a man makes.

01:29:19.000 And people repeat that without understanding what it actually means.

01:29:23.000 It's job choices and hours worked.

01:29:25.000 Those are the primary factors that lead to men earning more money than women. 0.92

01:29:30.000 It's not a man and a woman are doing the same job and someone rips off the woman by only giving her 75 cents to what the man works.

01:29:37.000 If that was the case, and the woman does just – Everybody would employ women. 1.00

01:29:41.000 Yeah, you would only employ women because women, you'd pay them less. 1.00

01:29:43.000 They do a better job anyway, right, ladies? 1.00

01:29:45.000 So there you go.

01:29:47.000 It's nonsense.

01:29:48.000 But that thing that Obama repeated on television, I remember watching him say that, going, he knows better than this.

01:29:54.000 This is bullshit.

01:29:55.000 This is a bullshit statistic.

01:29:56.000 But it's a heart-strength statistic.

01:29:59.000 Good headline.

01:30:01.000 Plays on what you want to believe rather than what's true.

01:30:05.000 And women have to take time off for maternity leave. 1.00

01:30:08.000 If they get pregnant, it's going to significantly impact the amount of hours they're willing to work. 1.00

01:30:15.000 They might not want to do the job anymore once they're raising their children.

01:30:17.000 If their husband's making enough money, they probably want to quit. 0.99

01:30:20.000 They want to be at home with their kids.

01:30:21.000 It's a normal thing.

01:30:23.000 And then a lot of women who are career corporate women are shamed for wanting to stay home with their children. 1.00

01:30:28.000 Yeah. You've been conned by the patriarchy into being a domestic prostitute. 1.00

01:30:32.000 So I was talking to – was it Schultz that said this?

01:30:36.000 I think it was.

01:30:36.000 He was telling me on the show.

01:30:38.000 He said that – His wife used to work at Google, I think.

01:30:42.000 She was a super high-powered, real smart lady. 1.00

01:30:44.000 And she used to bump into her old colleagues in the supermarket when they were together.

01:30:49.000 And the classic question that somebody that's in the career trenches asks somebody else is, Oh, so what are you doing now?

01:30:55.000 You left work.

01:30:56.000 What are you doing now?

01:30:57.000 And Schultz said this sentence that his wife replied with would fucking kill him.

01:31:03.000 She says, Oh, I'm just a mum.

01:31:05.000 He said, It's the just that really hurt.

01:31:08.000 I'm just a mum.

01:31:09.000 Well, that's how you feel like you're supposed to admit that you're just a mom.

01:31:15.000 That fucking hurts, dude.

01:31:16.000 To derogate the people that are literally raising the next generation.

01:31:20.000 Yeah. That's another point, actually, about sort of men falling behind.

01:31:23.000 I think it seems like young boys are more negatively impacted by fatherless homes than young girls are so any boy that grows up in an in intact and non intact household is more likely to To end up in jail or prison than they are to complete college.

01:31:43.000 Yeah. In the US.

01:31:44.000 Yeah. Any non-intact, that's adopted, step-parent, single parent, any non-intact home, they're more likely to end up in jail or in prison than they are to complete college.

01:31:54.000 Yeah. And the same statistic is not true for girls. 0.99

01:31:57.000 And this, again, the zero-sumness of the, so what do you say?

01:32:02.000 Are you saying that we need to hold girls?

01:32:04.000 It's like, no.

01:32:05.000 You do not need to hold one group back in order to be able to raise another one up.

01:32:09.000 We spent 50 years really pedestalizing and helping take the reins off of young girls so that socioeconomically they can look after themselves.

01:32:16.000 They're no longer financial prisoners of their partner, which is a big deal.

01:32:20.000 You look at the divorce statistics from the past and proclaim it as some amazing cultural outgrowth.

01:32:25.000 And you go, how many women stayed in those relationships because they fucking couldn't afford to leave? 1.00

01:32:30.000 They had no other option to do that.

01:32:32.000 That's scary.

01:32:33.000 That's scary.

01:32:34.000 That's why women are so picky. 1.00

01:32:36.000 And they should be.

01:32:37.000 Yeah. It's also crazy that we put value in our lives on money above everything.

01:32:47.000 Including above doing a good job raising your children.

01:32:50.000 You put the money that you earn above that.

01:32:54.000 And you just get daycare during the day.

01:32:56.000 I'll be home at 6. That's fine.

01:32:58.000 That's plenty of time to be with my kid.

01:33:00.000 And there's a lot of people that live their life by that.

01:33:03.000 And their ledger, when they look at the amount of money that they've earned, that's the reward.

01:33:09.000 It's the greatest metric in the world, though.

01:33:11.000 It's the most easy-to-optimize thing.

01:33:13.000 Like, I can tell you the size of the house that I live in.

01:33:16.000 I can tell you how much money I earn.

01:33:17.000 I can tell you what the car is like that I drive.

01:33:20.000 I can't tell you how much peace I have when my head hits the pillow at night.

01:33:23.000 I can't tell you what the quality of the relationship between me and my wife or me and my kids is.

01:33:28.000 I can't tell you how much time I got to spend in a hammock last week.

01:33:31.000 These are the things I think that if you were able to metricate, if you were able to make it a game, people would be able to pay an awful lot more attention to it.

01:33:38.000 But the money is the best game in the world.

01:33:39.000 It's literally currency.

01:33:42.000 Exchange. You can exchange it.

01:33:43.000 I know what your wealth is compared with that guy in Japan, compared with that dude in Russia, compared with this person that's Australian.

01:33:49.000 Whole world.

01:33:50.000 It's the best game I've ever created.

01:33:51.000 And it's the game that so many people use to show their value.

01:33:57.000 I mean, it's not just the richness of your life, the happiness that you have, the fulfilled feeling that you have when you do whatever it is that you do, where you feel like you have a sense of purpose.

01:34:09.000 No, that's not...

01:34:11.000 Can't quantify that.

01:34:12.000 Can't measure it.

01:34:13.000 Can't put it on a scale.

01:34:14.000 It's useless.

01:34:15.000 Meanwhile, it's the most important thing.

01:34:17.000 The most important thing is satisfaction.

01:34:19.000 Satisfaction in your life, community, love, friendship, happiness, a sense of purpose.

01:34:25.000 Like you enjoy what you do.

01:34:26.000 That's so important for life.

01:34:28.000 If you are just doing something you don't want to do just for money, you live in hell.

01:34:34.000 And that's most people.

01:34:36.000 Most people live in this, like, dull hell.

01:34:38.000 And they try to have fun while they're at work.

01:34:41.000 They try to, you know, have people that they talk to at work, hopefully make some good friends at work, and you can enjoy your chitter-chatter at the water cooler.

01:34:48.000 But the reality of that life is just mostly suck.

01:34:53.000 There's a lot of problems, I think, that people that are driven face that don't get that much sympathy.

01:34:57.000 So I had this idea that type A people have type B problems.

01:35:02.000 And Type B people have Type A problems.

01:35:04.000 So insecure overachievers need to learn how to chill out and lazy people need to learn how to work hard and be more disciplined.

01:35:12.000 And, you know, most people that listen to shows like yours or mine are probably some version of Type A, like a kind of walking anxiety disorder harnessed for productivity.

01:35:24.000 That's a great definition.

01:35:27.000 It is.

01:35:28.000 That's really accurate.

01:35:29.000 I think the thing that...

01:35:30.000 Type A people realize is that if you're type A, you get very little sympathy because an outwardly successful but miserable person is way less, always appears to be in a much more preferential position than a content being lazy but on the verge of bankruptcy one.

01:35:47.000 You know what I mean?

01:35:49.000 So problems of opportunity will always get less sympathy than ones of scarcity.

01:35:56.000 One feels like a choice and the other feels like a limitation.

01:36:00.000 One is like a bourgeois luxury and the other is like a systemic imposition.

01:36:04.000 You know, I need someone to teach me how to switch off and relax.

01:36:08.000 Feels dopaminergic and opulent and addicted and privileged.

01:36:14.000 I need someone to teach me how to work harder.

01:36:17.000 Feels noble and upward aiming and like you're supporting the downtrodden.

01:36:22.000 Like every underdog movie.

01:36:25.000 In history has a training montage of some guy down on his luck that gets saved by the right woman or a Japanese dude that teaches him to wash cars or whatever it is and through grit and spit and sawdust, he sorts himself out and he fixes his life.

01:36:41.000 No movie explains how to log out of Slack at 6pm or spend a day at the beach without feeling guilty.

01:36:49.000 So yeah, I think in that sense, type A people They may objectively have better lives.

01:36:58.000 But subjectively, they're ravaged by the sense that they've never done enough.

01:37:03.000 They wake up every single morning feeling as if they're already trying to repay some productivity debt.

01:37:10.000 And only if they dance through the day completely perfectly, nail every single task, can they go to bed not feeling like a waste man.

01:37:18.000 That's where they're at.

01:37:19.000 Congratulations. You might be very successful.

01:37:23.000 You also might be very miserable.

01:37:24.000 You're most likely going to be miserable.

01:37:27.000 That's the cold, hard reality of most CEOs.

01:37:32.000 Most really wealthy people, when you see them pull up in the yacht, they're fucking living hell.

01:37:36.000 I think when you look at people that are super outlier performers, your first emotion should not be envy.

01:37:45.000 It should be pity.

01:37:46.000 You should think, what's that person?

01:37:49.000 What's it like inside of that person to drive them to do what they did to themselves?

01:37:53.000 To put them in that position?

01:37:55.000 What's their background like?

01:37:57.000 What happened in their childhood?

01:37:59.000 What do they think about their own sense of self-worth?

01:38:01.000 Or how much Adderall are they on?

01:38:04.000 The old performance enhancer.

01:38:05.000 The testosterone for the businessman.

01:38:07.000 It's not just performance enhancer.

01:38:09.000 I think it changes the way you approach things.

01:38:13.000 Have you ever taken it?

01:38:14.000 No. No?

01:38:15.000 No, I'm scared of speed.

01:38:18.000 I'm scared of anything that I think I would really like.

01:38:21.000 Yeah, you haven't done cocaine for the same reason, right?

01:38:23.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:38:24.000 Well, I was very lucky when I was in high school.

01:38:26.000 I knew some people that had problems with it.

01:38:29.000 Big warning sign.

01:38:30.000 Yeah, well, and back then I was very driven.

01:38:32.000 Like, I didn't even party, really.

01:38:34.000 I only wanted to get good at martial arts.

01:38:38.000 I was so driven that I didn't want to do anything that would interfere with anything else.

01:38:42.000 What was it that drove you?

01:38:44.000 Why? Why this drive for so long?

01:38:49.000 There's probably a lot of factors.

01:38:50.000 I mean, I got into it because I didn't want to get picked on because I didn't know how to fight and I would be nervous around bullies.

01:38:55.000 I didn't know what to do.

01:38:56.000 And I'm like, I don't like this feeling at all.

01:38:58.000 So I will become what everyone's afraid of.

01:39:02.000 So I'll do that.

01:39:03.000 And then when I got into it, I realized that...

01:39:06.000 First of all, I realized that I could get really good at things.

01:39:10.000 I realized that whatever...

01:39:12.000 Drive that I had and whatever thing about fighting, which was so scary to me, why was so appealing to me at the same time.

01:39:20.000 And I realized that it was like a vision quest.

01:39:22.000 I was on this quest to try to figure out how to harness my potential and what better way than to do something that's very difficult and very scary.

01:39:32.000 And then if you could get really good at something very difficult and very scary, you could probably master life.

01:39:38.000 So you had this...

01:39:40.000 Gateway drug through martial arts that was a proof to you that you could self-author?

01:39:45.000 Yes. Yeah.

01:39:47.000 Proof that I wasn't a loser.

01:39:48.000 For me, it was like that I could be successful.

01:39:51.000 I've heard you say that before about the loser thing.

01:39:53.000 Where did that fear come from?

01:39:54.000 Did you feel powerless as a kid at some point?

01:39:56.000 Yeah. I'm sure it comes from broken home, moving around a lot, a lot of factors.

01:40:02.000 There's a lot of various factors.

01:40:04.000 But it's also just the existential angst of being a young man.

01:40:08.000 Like, they're looking for purpose.

01:40:10.000 Like, who am I?

01:40:10.000 What do I do?

01:40:11.000 Am I good at anything?

01:40:12.000 Like, what gives me value?

01:40:14.000 And for me, when I started doing martial arts, it was the first time that I was respected.

01:40:22.000 And not just respected, like, I remember the first time I realized that people would gather around when I fought.

01:40:30.000 I was like, whoa, this is kind of crazy.

01:40:33.000 Like, they specifically want to watch me fight.

01:40:36.000 And that was a big deal to me.

01:40:39.000 It's like that I was so good that people were gathering around.

01:40:43.000 Really, it was they wanted to see something horrible.

01:40:45.000 They wanted to see someone get head kicked.

01:40:47.000 You know, and they knew I did that a lot.

01:40:49.000 Reliably, you could kick someone in the head.

01:40:51.000 I was pretty good at it.

01:40:52.000 And so that changed me.

01:40:57.000 It changed my self-reflection.

01:40:59.000 It changed who I was.

01:41:01.000 I wasn't a loser.

01:41:02.000 Now I was an extreme winner and really good at it and super disciplined and driven beyond anything that I thought was possible before I'd done that.

01:41:14.000 I never had that kind of focus before I got into martial arts.

01:41:19.000 But martial arts demanded that kind of focus because you can't pretend.

01:41:23.000 There's no pretending you're good.

01:41:25.000 You have to be good.

01:41:27.000 There's no pretending you're fast.

01:41:28.000 You have to be fast.

01:41:29.000 There's no pretending to be technical.

01:41:31.000 You have to be perfect.

01:41:33.000 Your technique has to be perfect because you're fighting against other trained killers.

01:41:38.000 Your weaknesses will be revealed.

01:41:40.000 You're going to get hurt.

01:41:42.000 And I saw so many people get hurt.

01:41:44.000 It doesn't matter about what you tweeted.

01:41:46.000 It doesn't matter about your beliefs stepping onto the mat.

01:41:48.000 Your fucking rainbow flag that you have on your t-shirt.

01:41:51.000 Nobody gives a shit.

01:41:52.000 So on that, I think that's a very common pattern, especially for young people who feel a little bit helpless in their life.

01:41:59.000 I find a vector that makes me feel worthy.

01:42:04.000 You know, the most common story of high performers, I think, is that I needed to do something to get the world to recognize me.

01:42:10.000 One of the problems, I think, as people grow up is that they internalize this belief that the only way that the world will value me is if I can continue to perform at this high level.

01:42:21.000 And I think that there comes some people can imbibe a type of insecurity in that if I stop doing these things, if I stop being as impressive to the world.

01:42:32.000 Yes. It's going to deny me its love, that I'm going to be unwanted, unworthy.

01:42:40.000 And I think that this, talking about the high performer thing, talking about the pity of the CEO, go, how much are you running towards something that you want and how much are you running away from something that you fear?

01:42:50.000 That there's not enoughness.

01:42:52.000 Right, right, right.

01:42:54.000 And the way I looked at it and the way I was taught was that martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential.

01:43:02.000 Through the incredible struggle of training and competing, you will learn more about your ability to excel at anything.

01:43:10.000 This is the Miyamoto Musashi path.

01:43:13.000 And I think that the problem with anything extreme but also fleeting, and athletic performance is fleeting, if you're...

01:43:25.000 At the very best, you have a couple of decades.

01:43:29.000 At the very best.

01:43:30.000 If you're really lucky, you have a couple of decades to define you as a competitor.

01:43:36.000 But then your body will give out.

01:43:38.000 Your age will win. 0.68

01:43:40.000 The beating that your body takes from all the training and all the competing, eventually you're not going to be able to perform at that level anymore and you're going to fall off.

01:43:49.000 And you see it with fighters.

01:43:51.000 It's really hard with professional fighters where their whole identity is wrapped up in being a champion.

01:43:58.000 Their whole identity is being the king of the hill, and then they're no longer the king of the hill, and sometimes it happens very rapidly.

01:44:05.000 Sometimes it happens over the course of just one or two fights.

01:44:08.000 You go from being the pound-for-pound best in the world to a guy who nobody thinks is going to win the title again.

01:44:13.000 Like that.

01:44:14.000 So six months later, you're in a totally different reality.

01:44:17.000 You're in a depressed reality.

01:44:18.000 And then maybe you are physically depressed because maybe you got really hurt in your last fight.

01:44:23.000 So you're probably suffering from some brain damage.

01:44:26.000 So you've got endocrine disruption.

01:44:29.000 Your pituitary glands probably fucked.

01:44:31.000 Your cortisol levels are through the roof.

01:44:34.000 Your hormone levels are all fucked up.

01:44:36.000 You might have a hard time losing weight.

01:44:38.000 You know, you're tired and depressed because your levels are all fucked up and your hormones because you basically got your brains beat in six months ago. 0.71

01:44:46.000 Your capacity to fix the very problem has been taken away from you.

01:44:49.000 Yeah, and you see it sometimes with one fight.

01:44:52.000 With a fighter you see...

01:44:54.000 Tony Ferguson is my favorite example, who was the boogeyman of the lightweight division of the UFC for years.

01:45:02.000 For years.

01:45:03.000 He was the guy who was like this unstoppable force that had bottomless cardio, never stopped coming after you, and was just hell-bent on destruction and beat the fuck out of everybody.

01:45:15.000 Beat the fuck out of everybody for years until he fought Justin Gaethje.

01:45:19.000 And Justin Gaethje...

01:45:21.000 He beat him so bad, he was never the same again.

01:45:24.000 He was never the same guy again.

01:45:26.000 He went from being a favorite in the Justin Gagey fight, I think he was a slight favorite going into that fight, to after the fight was over, he got stopped in the later rounds and never recovered.

01:45:39.000 You think that was a physical thing or a mental thing?

01:45:41.000 Both. More physical than mental.

01:45:45.000 Because I think Tony's mental...

01:45:48.000 His fortitude is unstoppable.

01:45:50.000 He's just got this mindset.

01:45:52.000 But I don't think his body responded the way he looked different.

01:45:54.000 I saw him on a stair machine with David Goggins.

01:45:56.000 Goggins is screaming at him to keep going.

01:45:58.000 He gets off, throws up in a bag, and gets back on the stair machine.

01:46:01.000 No, he's an animal.

01:46:01.000 His mind is unstoppable.

01:46:03.000 But at a certain point in time, particularly when you're being tested, right?

01:46:07.000 So you're doing the USADA protocol at the time, and now it's a drug-free sport.

01:46:12.000 So there's no peptides.

01:46:14.000 There's nothing that can aid you in recovery.

01:46:18.000 There's, you know, you can't supplement your hormones.

01:46:22.000 Recharge your hormone development.

01:46:25.000 There's so many things that you can't do because they are in fact performance enhancers that would help you recover.

01:46:31.000 You know, if a guy like Tony Ferguson after that fight got on hormone replacement, got on testosterone, got his levels up pretty high, got to a point where he could train as hard, he probably wouldn't have had the slide that he had.

01:46:43.000 I think part of the slide is that everybody has to be natural.

01:46:46.000 And when you're natural and you get beat up a few times, you're...

01:46:51.000 We're not the same person anymore.

01:46:53.000 And I've seen it many, many times.

01:46:56.000 One bad beating and the guy's done.

01:46:59.000 It's a big thing in boxing.

01:47:01.000 In boxing, everybody points to Meldrick Taylor is one of the best examples.

01:47:05.000 Fought Julio Cesar Chavez.

01:47:07.000 Chavez broke him down in the fight and then stopped him with like a couple seconds to go in the last round.

01:47:13.000 Dropped him and the referee called the fight with a couple seconds to go in the last round.

01:47:17.000 And Meldrick Taylor was never the same again.

01:47:19.000 And he did interviews after the fight and the interviews after the fight, like a couple years later, pronounced slurring in his words.

01:47:28.000 A very clear deterioration of his reflexes and his speed.

01:47:32.000 Very clear deterioration in his ability to take a punch and even avoid punches.

01:47:36.000 His reflexes were off.

01:47:38.000 Have you ever felt any TBI stuff from your heritage of doing striking?

01:47:42.000 No, not really.

01:47:43.000 I'm sure it made me impulsive.

01:47:45.000 I'm sure I probably got the right amount of brain damage to succeed in life.

01:47:48.000 I think so.

01:47:49.000 Because it made me not...

01:47:52.000 I'm not very risk-averse.

01:47:53.000 I like risks.

01:47:55.000 I enjoy them.

01:47:56.000 I get a thrill out of taking chances.

01:47:59.000 I'm not afraid to fail.

01:48:01.000 I don't mind because I know that failure produces some of the best results.

01:48:05.000 Every time I've ever failed at anything, the humiliation and the pain of it has always forced me to work so much harder.

01:48:12.000 Failure in comedy is a gigantic blessing.

01:48:14.000 If you have one good bombing, it sucks like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother. 0.99

01:48:20.000 But when it's over...

01:48:21.000 You realize that that can happen.

01:48:23.000 You fucking tighten up your battleship.

01:48:25.000 Some of the biggest growth leaps that I've seen in comics and even in fighters is a humiliating loss.

01:48:33.000 Yeah, there's a...

01:48:34.000 A special category of lesson that I've been thinking about, it's one that you can only learn by sort of having gone through it.

01:48:40.000 And I think that bombing on stage or having a poor performance, I think that that's one of them.

01:48:45.000 I think most of them you only learn by going through them.

01:48:48.000 You learn something from watching other people's mistakes, which is why I've never done cocaine.

01:48:53.000 But maybe if I did do cocaine, I would have been sober a long time ago, and I would have had a much better understanding of the abyss.

01:49:00.000 Cocaine is a performance enhancer.

01:49:02.000 Yeah, it's strange.

01:49:03.000 No matter how arduous or costly or effortful it's going to be for us to find out these things for ourselves, for some reason, we insist.

01:49:13.000 On disregarding the mountains of warnings that we have from our elders, historical catastrophes and public scandals and film and TV and we think some version of...

01:49:27.000 Yeah, that might be true for them, but not for me.

01:49:30.000 It's the like, watch me do this mom mentality.

01:49:33.000 And yeah, we decide to learn the hard lessons the hard way over and over again.

01:49:38.000 And unfortunately, it always seems to be the big things.

01:49:40.000 You know, it's never about how to charmingly introduce yourself at a cocktail party or put up a level set of shelves.

01:49:46.000 It's never that.

01:49:48.000 It's always, we spend most of our lives learning firsthand.

01:49:52.000 The warnings that previous generations gave us over and over again.

01:49:55.000 And then one day you're like, I'm going to throw all my money in crypto.

01:49:58.000 And then you will know about that.

01:50:02.000 But that's one of them.

01:50:03.000 Money won't make you happy.

01:50:05.000 Fame isn't going to fix your self-worth.

01:50:07.000 You don't love that pretty girl. 1.00

01:50:09.000 She's just hot and difficult to get. 1.00

01:50:12.000 You will regret working too much.

01:50:15.000 Worrying isn't aiding your performance.

01:50:18.000 Nothing is as important as you think it is when you're thinking about it.

01:50:21.000 Over and over again, you should see your parents more.

01:50:24.000 All your worries are a waste of time.

01:50:28.000 It's perfectly okay to cut toxic people out of your life.

01:50:30.000 These are so trite.

01:50:33.000 They're such basic bitch insights because everybody has heard them before. 1.00

01:50:39.000 But if they're so basic, why does everyone who ends up arriving at them talk about them as if they've just had religious revelation?

01:50:47.000 You know what I mean?

01:50:48.000 They have this fervor to them about why it is so important for you to listen, that we couldn't have seen this coming.

01:50:58.000 How could we have seen this coming?

01:51:00.000 It is in every single fable and story from the rest of time.

01:51:05.000 And I think that one of the reasons this happens is, If you don't have a thing, looking at somebody who has that thing, they have the solution to your problem.

01:51:15.000 If you don't have money, you believe that by having money, all of your problems would be fixed.

01:51:20.000 If you don't have fame, you believe that fame is the thing that's going to get.

01:51:23.000 If you don't have the goal, you think that getting the goal is going to do those things.

01:51:26.000 And it is only by getting that and looking back and going, the issue that I thought would be fixed by getting the thing wasn't fixed.

01:51:36.000 Fuck, I need to look deeper.

01:51:39.000 Not only do we refuse to sort of learn the lessons, if you talk about this on the internet, if you have a rich person on who says, you know what, man, I earned a couple of billion dollars and I'm still pretty miserable.

01:51:50.000 You bring some actress on, she says, you know, all of the fame and stuff like that, it really didn't fix my self-worth.

01:51:57.000 The internet hates that.

01:51:59.000 It's a very contentious point to bring up.

01:52:03.000 And I think that we believe our particular mental makeup.

01:52:08.000 Would allow us to dance through this minefield, right?

01:52:11.000 No, no, no.

01:52:12.000 My unique inner landscape would be solved by this problem.

01:52:17.000 Especially men.

01:52:17.000 Watch me dance through this minefield, avoid all of the tripwires, do a couple of pirouettes, and I won't kick any of them.

01:52:24.000 Yeah. And then you kick one. 0.89

01:52:26.000 And you realize, oh, fuck, this...

01:52:30.000 This worry of mine was so much more deeply rooted than the thing that's from outside.

01:52:34.000 But I genuinely believe that you kind of need to learn it yourself.

01:52:38.000 I don't think you can.

01:52:39.000 I've got Naval on the show on Sunday.

01:52:41.000 He's great.

01:52:42.000 He's fucking phenomenal.

01:52:43.000 I think that, by the way, the one that you did with him in 2019 is the best podcast episode of all time.

01:52:48.000 Really? That two hours.

01:52:49.000 Yeah, it's just one I've gone back.

01:52:50.000 Maybe it's just like personally meaningful to me.

01:52:52.000 But I must have listened to that, I think, more than any other.

01:52:54.000 He's very wise.

01:52:56.000 He's a very wise person.

01:52:58.000 Although he did tell me that If he could invest more money in Clubhouse, he would have.

01:53:03.000 We were talking on the phone.

01:53:05.000 I was like, dude, I think this is just bad podcasting.

01:53:09.000 I don't think...

01:53:10.000 I don't think there's...

01:53:11.000 But Clubhouse took off during the pandemic because people found themselves at home.

01:53:16.000 And, you know, it's kind of cool to be able to hop on to a call with a bunch of other people.

01:53:20.000 And you're basically sharing ideas with people you've never met before and intellectually sparring.

01:53:25.000 And people loved it.

01:53:27.000 But I was like, bro...

01:53:28.000 When the world reopens...

01:53:29.000 I did it with Tim Dillon.

01:53:30.000 We did an episode once.

01:53:31.000 And he was like, yeah, it goes out there.

01:53:33.000 And then, you know, no one ever has.

01:53:35.000 I go, bullshit.

01:53:36.000 People are recording this right now.

01:53:37.000 I go, it's going to be online.

01:53:38.000 And he was online immediately.

01:53:40.000 Immediately. I go, this is nonsense.

01:53:42.000 It's like the mothership, making people put their phones in the bag, but you can reopen the bag.

01:53:48.000 If you could reopen the bag.

01:53:49.000 Yeah, but you can reopen the bag.

01:53:50.000 It's like, oh, I'm allowed to do this and just take it.

01:53:52.000 It's like, wait, everything's...

01:53:54.000 Yeah, it's a real interesting one, but he's got this quote where he says, it's far easier to achieve our material desires than it is to renounce them.

01:54:03.000 It's much easier for you to drive a beat-up Chevy truck if your last car was a Ferrari.

01:54:08.000 Sure. Because you've closed that loop.

01:54:10.000 I wonder if it is the money.

01:54:12.000 I wonder if it is the fame.

01:54:13.000 But it depends on the circles you're keeping, too.

01:54:15.000 Because if you're keeping circles that are valuing those items that show you've achieved milestones, there's a bunch of people.

01:54:27.000 You don't have a Maybach?

01:54:30.000 Keeping up with the Joneses is a hell of a fucking joke.

01:54:32.000 Oh, your house is not in the best neighborhood.

01:54:35.000 I was thinking about why I'm attracted to some of my friends, like why I like to spend time with some over others.

01:54:43.000 And I sort of realized this interesting dynamic that I hadn't really heard get talked about much, which is we think that we want to be charismatic.

01:54:53.000 Like we think we want to step into a room.

01:54:55.000 Our stories are electric.

01:54:57.000 Our energy, the aura, everyone's super impressed by us.

01:55:00.000 I didn't actually notice that that was the sort of people that I was choosing to hang around with.

01:55:05.000 There's this story about Jenny Jerome, who was Winston Churchill's mother, and she gets to dine with William Gladstone and Benjamin Disraeli, the prime minister and the opponent, one night after the other.

01:55:18.000 And she says, after I left the dinner with Gladstone, I left feeling like he was the smartest person in England.

01:55:24.000 Mm-hmm.

01:55:36.000 Mm-hmm. Some people feel interesting and some people we feel interesting.

01:55:42.000 Yeah. And that's my favorite sort of person.

01:55:45.000 I think charisma, charisma, being charismatic, being energizing, it's the sort of thing lots of people are seduced by.

01:55:51.000 They love the sound of it, but it's kind of like developing Developing real charisma.

01:55:56.000 Like Matthew McConaughey, sit opposite this guy and he's fucking oozing charisma.

01:56:00.000 But it's way easier to be interested than it is to be interesting.

01:56:03.000 And it gets you probably 80%, 90% of the way there just by caring and asking questions.

01:56:09.000 Thinking, huh, I want to know what you think about this.

01:56:12.000 That's cool, Joe.

01:56:13.000 Tell me more about that.

01:56:14.000 And why do you think that you're built that way?

01:56:16.000 And it helps.

01:56:17.000 I mean, people just love to talk about themselves.

01:56:19.000 And the other thing is, you know everything that you know.

01:56:22.000 Yeah. Yeah.

01:56:33.000 Yeah. Interview these spectacular people.

01:56:54.000 So they get to like, oh, why did you do that?

01:56:58.000 And then you say, why did you do that?

01:56:59.000 And I'm like, yeah, good question.

01:57:01.000 Good question.

01:57:02.000 You know what it feels like?

01:57:03.000 It feels like watching a sports game sometimes.

01:57:05.000 I think the best conversations, whether they're around a table or a podcast or whatever, it feels like watching a sports match and the two teams are kind of working together to get the ball in the goal.

01:57:15.000 And you get all excited and you're like, oh, he's going to do this.

01:57:17.000 Oh, the head kick!

01:57:18.000 Whoa! That's what I wanted!

01:57:19.000 Yeah, if you're ever listening to something, I'm sure that this maybe happened to people.

01:57:28.000 I just realized there should be a fourth participant.

01:57:38.000 Carl snores a lot.

01:57:40.000 Okay, he's a sound risk.

01:57:42.000 Sometimes he gets a little loud.

01:57:45.000 And while the podcast is going on, you hear...

01:57:48.000 Nudge him.

01:57:50.000 Roll him over.

01:57:51.000 Make him shut up.

01:57:52.000 It depends on who I'm talking to.

01:57:55.000 If I'm talking to a theoretical physicist and there's some very difficult thing to grasp and you hear Carl snoring, it becomes a little bit of an issue.

01:58:03.000 If it's coming through the headphones.

01:58:04.000 He's loud.

01:58:06.000 Sleep train.

01:58:06.000 Sleep train that dog.

01:58:07.000 No, you can't.

01:58:08.000 He's gotten older.

01:58:08.000 He can handle it.

01:58:09.000 He needs CPAP.

01:58:11.000 Doggy CPAP?

01:58:12.000 Fuck. Have you seen what their faces look like?

01:58:15.000 The skulls?

01:58:17.000 French bulldog skulls?

01:58:18.000 No. Oh, it's horrible what they've done to them.

01:58:20.000 Through selective breeding?

01:58:22.000 Yeah. Just slowly, slowly.

01:58:23.000 They just shove their fucking skull.

01:58:25.000 It's all twisted where their sinuses are non-existent.

01:58:30.000 Their whole face is just smushed in.

01:58:32.000 So we can't really complain about the snoring.

01:58:35.000 Well, I mean, we did it to them.

01:58:37.000 They used to be wolves.

01:58:38.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:58:38.000 They used to be a wolf.

01:58:39.000 Yeah. I told you about that man crush that I had last time, that unkillable soldier guy.

01:58:44.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:58:45.000 And it sort of sent me down a rabbit hole.

01:58:47.000 I fell in love with stories of crazy bastards from history.

01:58:50.000 So I found this other dude called Eimo Koivinen.

01:58:53.000 Oh, I've heard of that guy.

01:58:53.000 The Finnish soldier.

01:58:54.000 Yeah. Yeah, so he is out on patrol with a bunch of Finnish soldiers, small group, and they come upon a Soviet force way bigger than they are.

01:59:05.000 They can't fight them, so they have to flee.

01:59:07.000 As they're fleeing, they're skiing away through the snow, and the force is way bigger.

01:59:12.000 Emil is at the front.

01:59:13.000 He's trailblazing, trying to break free from this group, but he can't go fast enough.

01:59:16.000 If they get caught, they're going to be captured or killed or worse.

01:59:19.000 So he needs to speed up.

01:59:21.000 He doesn't know how.

01:59:22.000 He's carrying the entire patrol's supply of Pervitin.

01:59:26.000 Now, Pervitin...

01:59:28.000 It was a German miracle drug that was used to keep soldiers awake during the war.

01:59:32.000 Meth! It's otherwise known as methamphetamine.

01:59:36.000 And he decided, I mean, you might think, this wasn't just any normal meth, right?

01:59:41.000 This was pharmaceutical-grade, wartime human horsepower, right?

01:59:47.000 It was the most intense.

01:59:49.000 So you might think tolerating the dose could be a good idea.

01:59:54.000 There's a rumor that apparently it had melted in his pocket.

01:59:56.000 But whatever he did, he took 30 people's worth.

01:59:59.000 He took 30 soldiers' worth of meth.

02:00:01.000 The entire packet.

02:00:02.000 Just ate the entire packet.

02:00:03.000 Whoa. Unsurprisingly, he manages to break away from the pursuing Soviets and he leads his group away.

02:00:10.000 So they chill out on the far side once they're finally free.

02:00:15.000 And they notice that Amo's behaving a little bit oddly.

02:00:18.000 And he seems to be a danger to himself and to them.

02:00:20.000 So they take his ammo out of his rifle.

02:00:23.000 And they take his knife off him, and they're sort of putting stuff away in the pack.

02:00:26.000 They turn around, and he's gone.

02:00:28.000 Like, fuck, where's Amo gone?

02:00:30.000 He skis for 63 miles on his own.

02:00:33.000 Just skis away, doesn't really know what he's doing.

02:00:35.000 He's in this sort of fever dream thing.

02:00:37.000 Lays down, goes to sleep.

02:00:38.000 Wakes up the next day.

02:00:40.000 No idea where he is.

02:00:41.000 Doesn't know where his group is.

02:00:42.000 Doesn't know where the squadron is.

02:00:43.000 Doesn't know where he is.

02:00:45.000 Immediately sees a Soviet soldier over the far side.

02:00:47.000 Raises his rifle.

02:00:48.000 Click. Fuck, they took my ammo.

02:00:51.000 hurls the rifle at this Soviet soldier, and he explodes in a cloud of white dust.

02:00:56.000 Turns out that it wasn't a Soviet soldier.

02:00:58.000 It was a tree branch with snow on it.

02:00:59.000 Whoa. Whoa.

02:01:06.000 Whoa. He sees a fire, and he sees his group over the far side.

02:01:20.000 It's way far away, so he skis for another two hours.

02:01:23.000 Turns out that it wasn't his squadron.

02:01:25.000 It was more Soviet soldiers.

02:01:26.000 So he just skis straight through the middle of the camp.

02:01:30.000 All of these guys immediately chase after him, but there's no chat.

02:01:32.000 Like, he's the fucking LeBron James of meth, right?

02:01:34.000 You're not...

02:01:35.000 You're not catching this guy.

02:01:39.000 So he goes straight through again, second night, finds a hut.

02:01:43.000 He finds a wooden cabin in the middle of the snow, decides to set a fire, but he doesn't set it in the fireplace.

02:01:51.000 He sets it in the middle of the wooden hut.

02:01:54.000 And throughout the night, he sort of shuffles himself further and further away.

02:01:59.000 For some reason, his back's getting a little bit warm, and he keeps on sort of shuffling himself further and further away.

02:02:03.000 He wakes up the next morning on the outside of the hut, and it's completely burned down.

02:02:07.000 So he's burned the only bit, the only structure that was going to give him any safety.

02:02:12.000 He's managed to burn it to the ground.

02:02:14.000 And as he wakes up, again, sort of may have noticed that this is a recurring theme, a wolverine attacks him.

02:02:21.000 65-pound wolverine.

02:02:23.000 Fucking fangs, yellow eyes, attacks him. 0.94

02:02:25.000 So Amo uses his knife, kills this wolverine, fight to the death, kills it.

02:02:30.000 But then he realizes, I don't have a knife.

02:02:32.000 Because my soldiers took it from me.

02:02:35.000 It was his compass, which was the only thing he could use to navigate himself.

02:02:38.000 He'd smashed his compass to bits, and then he looks down, and it wasn't a wolverine.

02:02:42.000 It was a tree log.

02:02:43.000 So he smashed his compass on a tree log, thinking it was a 65-pound wolverine.

02:02:48.000 He's still just deep, deep in the hole.

02:02:51.000 Continues to ski around.

02:02:53.000 He's trying to find someone, trying to find any way marker that he can.

02:02:56.000 Now, with no way to navigate, he's got no compass, he's got no weapon.

02:02:59.000 I mean, the rifle that's got no ammunition in it.

02:03:01.000 He finds a Soviet forward operating base.

02:03:04.000 But you'll know this.

02:03:06.000 A lot of the time when armies left these behind, they booby-trapped the fuck out of them.

02:03:13.000 They booby-trapped everything.

02:03:15.000 So he walks onto the middle of the forward operating base, immediately gets exploded by a landmine, foot gets blown.

02:03:21.000 So he's laid there in the snow, kind of waiting to die.

02:03:23.000 And one day later, he's not dead.

02:03:26.000 So he's like, well, fuck it.

02:03:27.000 I might as well try and get into the forward operating base.

02:03:29.000 Gets up, continues to go forward, opens the door.

02:03:33.000 He has no foot?

02:03:35.000 It's damaged.

02:03:36.000 It's severely damaged.

02:03:38.000 Gets toward the front of the operating base, opens the door.

02:03:40.000 There's another booby trap there that explodes him and the door like 20 yards backward.

02:03:44.000 He just lays there in the snow waiting to die.

02:03:46.000 He lays there for about five or six days waiting to die.

02:03:50.000 He's melting snow in a little tin can thing, like melting it so that he can drink a little bit of water.

02:03:57.000 He's got this door on him.

02:03:58.000 He thinks, well, someone's going to find me.

02:03:59.000 It's going to be the Soviets. 0.97

02:04:00.000 They're going to kill me or I'm just going to die.

02:04:01.000 So he waits.

02:04:03.000 Death doesn't come.

02:04:05.000 Three Finnish soldiers come upon him of all of the different nationalities, of all of the different people.

02:04:09.000 Three Finnish soldiers come upon him and he thinks, finally, for all of this time, after being confused, after getting lost, I'm going to be saved.

02:04:15.000 They say, it's okay, we can take you back.

02:04:17.000 We can save you and take you back.

02:04:18.000 And the front guy of the three fins steps on a landmine.

02:04:23.000 Blows himself up.

02:04:24.000 And the other two are like, hey man, there's kind of a priority list here.

02:04:28.000 And you're at the bottom and he's at the top.

02:04:30.000 So we're going to take him back.

02:04:30.000 But just hold on for another couple of days.

02:04:32.000 We'll come back and we'll save you.

02:04:34.000 They go away and he just thinks, they're not going to find me again.

02:04:37.000 They're going to forget.

02:04:37.000 They're not going to be able to come back.

02:04:38.000 Someone's going to kill me before they do or I'm going to die or whatever.

02:04:41.000 But they do.

02:04:42.000 They manage to come back.

02:04:43.000 They manage to get him and they take him back to the medical bay.

02:04:46.000 14 days.

02:04:47.000 Was how long he'd been traveling around.

02:04:50.000 He'd moved 250 miles in this time.

02:04:54.000 His resting heart rate was 200 beats per minute.

02:04:58.000 And he weighed 98 pounds.

02:05:02.000 He'd survived this entire time on meth, water that he'd melted down into a tin cup, a couple of pine nut things that he'd melted to, and a single Siberian jay that he beat to death. 0.84

02:05:15.000 With his ski pole and just ate raw.

02:05:17.000 And he lived until he was in his 70s, died in like 1989, and just lived a great life.

02:05:23.000 I fucking love that story, dude.

02:05:26.000 This meth-fueled Finnish maniac, just like skiing through everything, setting shit on fire, hallucinating, getting blown up twice. 1.00

02:05:35.000 Survived it.

02:05:35.000 Meth's a hell of a drug.

02:05:36.000 Maybe you should have done it.

02:05:37.000 Maybe I should try now.

02:05:39.000 It's amazing what was accomplished on amphetamines.

02:05:43.000 I mean, Norman Oler's book Blitzed.

02:05:46.000 I loved those episodes that you did with them.

02:05:48.000 Yeah, incredible.

02:05:49.000 It's just an incredible story that they literally went through Poland in three days, just methed out of their fucking minds.

02:05:58.000 And the most meth was given to the people at the very front, the people that are driving the tanks.

02:06:02.000 They were the most cranked up.

02:06:04.000 Because they'll drive the rest of the group forward?

02:06:07.000 Yeah, and also they have to be the most psychotic.

02:06:09.000 Because you're going to be the first people to encounter resistance.

02:06:12.000 So you need to be the most risk-averse.

02:06:15.000 Yeah. Oh, the least risk-averse.

02:06:16.000 Least risk-averse, the most maniacal and murderous.

02:06:20.000 I wonder, you know, it's kind of a debate around how much of Hitler's behavior was because of Hitler and how much was amplified, worsened by the drugs that he was on.

02:06:30.000 That Theodore Morrell, that crazy kooky doctor that he had, he's injecting him with bull semen.

02:06:34.000 He's getting fucking cocaine.

02:06:37.000 Everything, yeah.

02:06:39.000 A lot of it had to do with that.

02:06:41.000 It had to.

02:06:42.000 I mean, it had to.

02:06:43.000 It's a factor.

02:06:44.000 It's a giant factor.

02:06:46.000 Just how much of it?

02:06:47.000 What would it have been like?

02:06:48.000 What would the wars have been like were there no meth?

02:06:51.000 I mean, that's probably the first amphetamine-fueled war, right?

02:06:56.000 Was World War I fueled by amphetamines?

02:06:58.000 Did they have amphetamines back then?

02:07:01.000 I mean, I don't know what you do to get people to go over the top to certain death.

02:07:08.000 I mean, you motivate people by everybody else doing it.

02:07:10.000 I suppose it's sort of crowd behavior in that way.

02:07:12.000 Well, they know that meth was given to the kamikaze soldiers, which makes sense. 0.99

02:07:17.000 I mean, it's a great way.

02:07:20.000 It's just going to fly that plane right into that boat.

02:07:22.000 You're like, what?

02:07:22.000 I'm having a great time.

02:07:23.000 Sure. Yeah.

02:07:24.000 No, I'm going to fly to a fucking island and hide.

02:07:27.000 During World War I, militaries used cocaine and other drugs for medicinal purposes and to enhance performance.

02:07:35.000 So, cocaine.

02:07:37.000 The British Army sold cocaine-containing pills under the brand name Forced March.

02:07:42.000 That is the best branding in the world.

02:07:45.000 Increase endurance, suppress appetite.

02:07:47.000 1960 British Army Council banned the unauthorized sale of psychoactive drudge.

02:07:51.000 I wonder why they did that.

02:07:53.000 They didn't want to win?

02:07:54.000 You don't want to have fun?

02:07:56.000 What, are you the fucking fun police?

02:07:57.000 Wow, that's pretty crazy.

02:07:59.000 Yeah, is it go pills?

02:08:01.000 Is that what they give to fighter pilots?

02:08:03.000 Yeah, they give them something.

02:08:05.000 British Army's pill number nine.

02:08:07.000 What's that?

02:08:10.000 Pill number nine was just a strong laxative?

02:08:12.000 This is AI.

02:08:13.000 Lies. What was in there? 0.95

02:08:16.000 Specific medication used by British Army during World War I. Primary ingredient, pill number nine, was Colomel.

02:08:24.000 Mercurious chloride.

02:08:25.000 A mercury-based compound.

02:08:28.000 They're used to treat intestinal infections and other ailments.

02:08:30.000 Oh, okay.

02:08:31.000 Just massive diarrhea pills.

02:08:33.000 I don't know how that's a performance enhancer.

02:08:35.000 Yeah, I don't think it is.

02:08:36.000 If your stomach, maybe just clear it out.

02:08:38.000 Feel like it's on your feet.

02:08:40.000 I don't know.

02:08:40.000 It seems like the cocaine would be more effective to...

02:08:42.000 I mean, cocaine will make you go to the bathroom as well.

02:08:45.000 For to accomplish our goals.

02:08:47.000 Yeah. You know you said...

02:08:48.000 You said before about sort of that self-authoring thing, like taking control of my own life.

02:08:54.000 My friend George has got this great question where he says, you're stuck in a third world prison and you get one phone call to ring somebody to get you out.

02:09:04.000 Who'd you ring?

02:09:05.000 And that idea I love because it helps you to identify who the highest agency person is in your life.

02:09:11.000 Who is it that can think on their feet?

02:09:14.000 That doesn't need permission to go and do anything.

02:09:16.000 That'll overcome obstacles.

02:09:17.000 That is this sort of permissionless reality bender.

02:09:22.000 Right. Who would you call?

02:09:23.000 I don't know, man.

02:09:25.000 That's a good question.

02:09:28.000 That's a really good question.

02:09:30.000 I'd have to really think about it.

02:09:31.000 Also, I don't know anybody's number.

02:09:34.000 That's true.

02:09:34.000 That's a problem.

02:09:35.000 Can I Instagram DM them?

02:09:37.000 Is that alright?

02:09:37.000 Can I log in?

02:09:38.000 Actually, can you give me my phone?

02:09:39.000 Because I've got two-factor authentication on.

02:09:40.000 This is going to be really awkward.

02:09:41.000 Is that alright?

02:09:42.000 I need to do that.

02:09:43.000 Yeah, I mean, I'd be tempted to ring Tim Kennedy.

02:09:46.000 I think he would probably be quite high up on my list.

02:09:49.000 Yeah, he would help you a lot.

02:09:50.000 If I had access to my phone.

02:09:52.000 Yeah, dirty deeds done dirt cheap.

02:09:55.000 Correct, yeah.

02:09:56.000 I mean, it might be a bit gratuitous.

02:09:58.000 I get the sense that he would take more pleasure in getting me out than would be necessary.

02:10:02.000 You know what I mean?

02:10:03.000 Yeah, probably.

02:10:04.000 Yeah. Yeah, I don't know, man.

02:10:08.000 That's got to be the worst place to be in the world.

02:10:10.000 Foreign prison with no way to call somebody.

02:10:14.000 You know, this is the criticism about these illegal aliens that have been shipped off to...

02:10:20.000 Is it El Salvador?

02:10:23.000 Is it El Salvador that they have the super prisons?

02:10:26.000 Yeah, I think we spoke about this last time.

02:10:28.000 That was just as they'd been created, these football stadium-sized monstrosities.

02:10:31.000 They essentially got all the gang members off the streets and locked them up and dropped crime radically, dropped violence radically.

02:10:40.000 They essentially said, enough of this.

02:10:41.000 We're just going to go after all these gang members and lock them all up.

02:10:46.000 And the criticism about these deportees...

02:10:52.000 That we're sending people over there.

02:10:54.000 We're sending plane loads of people over there.

02:10:57.000 What if you're in that group and you're not guilty of anything?

02:11:01.000 What if you're just a guy who came over here from Mexico and you're a tattoo artist?

02:11:06.000 U.S. deports 250 alleged gang members to El Salvador despite court ruling to halt flights.

02:11:12.000 Yeah, there's a court ruling to halt the flights.

02:11:13.000 But here's the thing.

02:11:15.000 If they are gang members, if they are Trendy Aragua or, you know, those gang members that took over.

02:11:21.000 MS-13.

02:11:22.000 Yeah. If that's real, then this all makes sense.

02:11:25.000 But the fear is that there's going to be certain people that are rounded up in this.

02:11:31.000 That are not guilty.

02:11:33.000 Collateral damage.

02:11:34.000 Right. And then these poor people are going to be trapped in this El Salvador prison and no one's going to believe them that they're innocent. 1.00

02:11:41.000 It says it all that El Salvador has got a reputation for being so good at prison and law enforcement that they're fucking importing people over there. 1.00

02:11:51.000 It's like, oh, we need to – you said before, if I've got a bad knee, I want to go to the guy that looks after the Lakers.

02:11:56.000 It's like you're the Lakers PT doc of the rehabilitation world.

02:12:00.000 It's not even rehabilitation, I suppose.

02:12:01.000 It's just incarceration world. 0.85

02:12:02.000 Yeah, it's just incarceration and there's probably a financial incentive.

02:12:05.000 We probably pay them to house these prisoners. 1.00

02:12:08.000 But the question is, are we sure?

02:12:11.000 Like, how many of these people are being accused of being gang members because maybe they tattoo gang members?

02:12:18.000 You know, maybe they were caught up in a raid and maybe they are...

02:12:22.000 Friends of gang members.

02:12:22.000 Maybe there's an artist who happens to be an illegal or maybe they're someone who's working on a construction site and they get rounded up and they get shipped over there.

02:12:32.000 That's a legitimate question.

02:12:34.000 When you're arresting people and prosecuting people and your goal is to arrest people and prosecute people, you do your best at that.

02:12:41.000 And the question is, how many people get arrested and prosecuted that are innocent?

02:12:46.000 Well, in the real world, what we know is quite a few.

02:12:50.000 I mean, I do a lot of podcasts with my good friend Josh Dubin, who's spent a considerable amount of his life helping innocent people get out of jail.

02:12:59.000 That's his main thing that he does, is work with unjustly prosecuted people.

02:13:06.000 And you find the levels of corruption to be horrific.

02:13:10.000 The prosecutors, DAs, the amount of corrupt judges, it's shocking.

02:13:16.000 It's shocking when you lay the facts of these cases out, like the Ohio Four, these people that were in jail, proven that one of them could not have possibly been there when the crime was committed and still was in there for 30 years.

02:13:31.000 The actual guy who was the informant came out and said that he was told to say all these things.

02:13:37.000 It's all lies.

02:13:38.000 Then was told when they were going to bring it to trial again, you will be arrested for telling lies now.

02:13:46.000 You will either be arrested because you're lying now, or you'll be arrested for telling lies previously.

02:13:55.000 So then he won't...

02:13:56.000 This is like that thing, you know, if she sinks, she's not a witch, and if she floats, she is.

02:14:01.000 Right, right, right, right.

02:14:03.000 Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy.

02:14:04.000 It's crazy.

02:14:05.000 And then there's the game aspect of it.

02:14:08.000 The game aspect of it is victory, right?

02:14:10.000 If you're a prosecutor, your job is to arrest people and prosecute them and convict them.

02:14:15.000 That's your job.

02:14:16.000 That's what your self-worth, who you are as a prosecutor, your reputation is based on success.

02:14:23.000 Yeah, your record, your perfect record of this many convictions.

02:14:28.000 It's the same with cops, unfortunately.

02:14:30.000 A lot of cops, their whole thing is making arrests.

02:14:34.000 Making arrests.

02:14:36.000 It's a shame, isn't it?

02:14:37.000 You talked about the fire service earlier on, three emergency services, fire, police, and ambulance.

02:14:43.000 When the fire service turns up anywhere...

02:14:47.000 I don't think that there's any issues.

02:14:48.000 I don't know how often firefighters find themselves up against a crowd that's unhappy.

02:14:54.000 Maybe, I guess, if it was a riot of some kind, perhaps.

02:14:57.000 But for the most part, it's a hero that's coming to save the cat stuck in a tree, the house that's on fire, the baby that's upstairs.

02:15:04.000 Like, hooray, well done for you.

02:15:06.000 A medical service turns up.

02:15:09.000 Somebody's really badly hurt or somebody's broken.

02:15:12.000 EMTs. Yeah, some kid at a sports match has broken their leg.

02:15:15.000 Thank you so much.

02:15:16.000 Please look after them, look after them.

02:15:18.000 And then the police turn up.

02:15:20.000 And the reaction could not be more different.

02:15:22.000 Yeah. And I don't know.

02:15:25.000 I understand that there's a particular type of control that cops have.

02:15:33.000 Firefighters and EMTs are doing stuff exclusively in service of others, whereas cops are doing something that sort of subtracts away.

02:15:42.000 But it must be tough.

02:15:43.000 If you're a good cop, especially now, especially after the last few years, it must be hard because you want to feel proud about your job.

02:15:49.000 It's unbelievably hard.

02:15:50.000 It's also very hard to get people that are good people to sign up for it now because they don't want that abuse.

02:15:55.000 I wonder if that's been reversed.

02:15:57.000 Over the last few years?

02:15:58.000 I mean, I bet it has in certain jurisdictions, in certain areas, where they've valued cops.

02:16:05.000 And, you know, this whole defund the police thing was just so wild.

02:16:09.000 It was so crazy to see that people would think that that would be a good idea.

02:16:13.000 And even to espouse it publicly, to erode public confidence in law enforcement, just writ large.

02:16:21.000 You notice that that's largely dropped off now?

02:16:23.000 Yeah. No one's really talking about...

02:16:25.000 Well, it didn't work.

02:16:26.000 It had the opposite effect.

02:16:28.000 Crime escalated, and the people that lived in the communities wanted the cops back.

02:16:32.000 In the areas that were the worst affected as well.

02:16:35.000 It's a luxury belief.

02:16:37.000 It's something that's held by the upper classes that only impacts the lower classes.

02:16:41.000 Yeah, and it's also a thing that the political establishment will use as a tool to align you with them.

02:16:49.000 You know, people will say it, like Kamala Harris in 2019 was saying, I mean defund the police, we should defund the police, which is just crazy to say.

02:16:58.000 You need to fund them more, train them better.

02:17:00.000 You know, they need training the way military groups need training, constantly, consistently.

02:17:07.000 And, you know, they're encountering horrific things.

02:17:10.000 I mean, my friends who have been cops and, you know, and have served overseas, they'll tell you...

02:17:17.000 Most of them will tell you that they suffered more PTSD as cops than they had even in the military.

02:17:22.000 Yeah. Depending upon your service, depending on what you had to do.

02:17:25.000 But a lot of them, it's just like every day you're seeing some nightmarish situation.

02:17:30.000 Horrific violence, domestic violence, child abuse, murdered kids.

02:17:36.000 You're seeing so much horror.

02:17:38.000 And then your version of reality is based on your experiences.

02:17:43.000 Your experiences are horrific every day.

02:17:45.000 Do you think you'd be able to switch off if you had a job like that?

02:17:48.000 You'd be able to partition compartmentalize?

02:17:51.000 I wouldn't even ever guess that I could pull it off.

02:17:54.000 I wouldn't even guess.

02:17:55.000 I don't think anybody even understands what that even means unless you've shown up and seen some guy's brains blown out all over the curb for nothing, for some stupid argument about nothing.

02:18:07.000 When you've seen some woman get shot in front of her kid by the husband, you have no idea.

02:18:15.000 No one has any idea.

02:18:17.000 You don't know unless you experience it.

02:18:19.000 And then you have to go home to your own children, go home to your own wife, and you're just, your brain is on fire.

02:18:25.000 You know, your soul is just in agony.

02:18:29.000 We were watching a video the other day of this guy who had to shoot this guy, this cop.

02:18:34.000 This guy was, something was wrong.

02:18:37.000 It was clearly mentally unstable, was yelling, was, you know... 0.52

02:18:41.000 Telling everybody what he was gonna do they tased him that didn't work then he's charging at this cop and the cop shoots him and then the cops sobbing and Shaking and his partners telling him to breathe how to breathe and he's just Probably the first person you ever had to kill It's horrible.

02:19:00.000 It's horrible and that's that's He succeeded he's he stopped a threat and he You know, it was justified.

02:19:10.000 This person was trying to kill him.

02:19:12.000 What about pulling people over and the windows are all tinted and they won't roll down the windows.

02:19:17.000 You're standing there vulnerable.

02:19:19.000 It could be a shotgun inches away from your face and you have no idea.

02:19:22.000 And they've all seen all these videos where people get gunned down.

02:19:25.000 You pull people over, all of a sudden the back window explodes with machine gun fire.

02:19:30.000 I mean, they live with that every day.

02:19:34.000 They live with that fear every day.

02:19:35.000 And then they have to hear this rhetoric everywhere of defund the police and calling cops pigs.

02:19:39.000 And it's crazy.

02:19:41.000 It's crazy.

02:19:42.000 And it ultimately destroys the fabric of our society.

02:19:47.000 And, you know, there's plenty of evidence that cops have done bad things.

02:19:52.000 It's not excusing the bad cops.

02:19:54.000 There's bad plumbers.

02:19:55.000 There's bad car mechanics.

02:19:57.000 There's bad everything.

02:19:58.000 And there's people that shouldn't be cops.

02:20:04.000 Shouldn't be a cop and is, you know, on their last nerve and snaps at someone or overreacts at someone or brutalizes someone totally unnecessarily.

02:20:13.000 It gives you a very distorted perception of the average encounter that a person has with police officers.

02:20:19.000 Because most of the interactions that people have with police officers are fine.

02:20:24.000 Most of them.

02:20:24.000 The vast majority.

02:20:26.000 No one gets hurt.

02:20:27.000 No one goes to jail.

02:20:28.000 Most of them.

02:20:29.000 You know, but you see the ones that go sideways and then you think, This is what cops are doing.

02:20:34.000 They're out there trying to kill people.

02:20:36.000 That's one of the disadvantages, I suppose, of the way the algorithms work, that edge cases that are unbelievable and shocking are the ones that catch the most fire.

02:20:45.000 Right. And what it creates is it moves the fringe to the middle because most of what you see by design is the stuff that's the most outlandish.

02:20:53.000 And then it gets used as a political tool.

02:20:55.000 Correct. You mentioned about Biden and Kamala.

02:20:59.000 What do you think you do?

02:21:01.000 If you're either of them now.

02:21:04.000 Like, Trump's just running ragged, flying high, having all of this fun.

02:21:08.000 Like, what are they doing?

02:21:10.000 Like, what do you do when you've lost a...

02:21:11.000 Two people have lost a campaign in the space of six months.

02:21:13.000 I don't know.

02:21:14.000 Tim Walsh is out there talking again.

02:21:17.000 Did he say he could fight any Trump supporter?

02:21:19.000 Yeah, he said he'd kick their ass and they're scared of him because he could fix a truck.

02:21:24.000 Like, they're threatened by his masculinity.

02:21:25.000 I know how to fix a truck.

02:21:27.000 So he said, like, do you?

02:21:29.000 I bet you don't.

02:21:30.000 The lady doth protest too much, I fear. 0.98

02:21:33.000 I bet if I bring a broken truck to you and a bag of tools, you're fucked.

02:21:37.000 That was kind of the redress, right?

02:21:39.000 That was the attempt.

02:21:40.000 It was like, the symbol of masculinity on the left is going to be Tim Waltz.

02:21:45.000 It was Aragon from Lord of the Rings and Tim Waltz.

02:21:49.000 Yeah, it's so crazy.

02:21:52.000 I think they're lost.

02:21:53.000 I mean, they're also lost in that they can't control the narrative anymore.

02:21:56.000 I think when they had control of Twitter and they had control of essentially all of social media and pre-Trump, they had the reins firmly held.

02:22:07.000 They were in control of the public narrative.

02:22:09.000 If you strayed from that, you will be kicked off social media.

02:22:12.000 You'll be banned from YouTube.

02:22:14.000 And for things that were factually correct.

02:22:17.000 Like, the lab leak theory is now finally being embraced by the New York Times.

02:22:22.000 The New York Times, I don't know if you saw that article the other day, they said, we were misled.

02:22:26.000 Like, bro, you misled us!

02:22:28.000 We were misled by ourselves.

02:22:30.000 There was a big op-ed in the New York Times that has people up in arms, because they're like, fucking duh, you're finally, do you know where it is?

02:22:38.000 I can send it to you.

02:22:40.000 I saved it, because it's so ridiculous.

02:22:42.000 It's so ridiculous.

02:22:43.000 I was like, what are you saying?

02:22:45.000 How are you saying that?

02:22:46.000 It was you guys.

02:22:48.000 It wasn't just some random people that did that.

02:22:56.000 Do you find it anywhere, Jamie?

02:22:58.000 I know I saved it.

02:22:59.000 Which was it called?

02:23:00.000 It was the New York Times saying that we were misled.

02:23:04.000 There was a big op-ed in the New York Times.

02:23:09.000 I saw people spreading.

02:23:10.000 I never saw the link.

02:23:11.000 Yeah, I read it.

02:23:13.000 I read it for like the first couple chapters, but it's all duh.

02:23:17.000 The whole thing is just fucking duh.

02:23:20.000 God, where did I save it?

02:23:22.000 I save too many things.

02:23:23.000 I'm a hoarder.

02:23:25.000 Digital hoarder.

02:23:26.000 I'm a digital hoarder.

02:23:27.000 Do you know why that happens?

02:23:28.000 Do you know why people hoard stuff?

02:23:29.000 The interesting way that their brains work.

02:23:31.000 So looking around this table, you're able to discern between stuff that is useful.

02:23:37.000 There it is.

02:23:38.000 We were badly misled about the event that changed our lives.

02:23:41.000 Who are you badly misled by?

02:23:43.000 Do you think you guys had a factor in that?

02:23:45.000 Look. I Since scientists began playing around with dangerous pathogens in laboratories, the world has experienced four or five pandemics, depending on how you count.

02:23:58.000 One of them, the 1977 Russian flu, almost certainly sparked by a research mishap.

02:24:02.000 Some Western scientists quickly suspected the odd virus had resided in a lab freezer for a couple of decades, but they kept mostly quiet for fear of ruffling feathers.

02:24:13.000 Yet in 2020, when people...

02:24:15.000 Started speculating that a lab accident might have been the spark that started the COVID-19 pandemic.

02:24:21.000 They were treated like kooks and cranks in this newspaper.

02:24:25.000 Many public health officials and prominent...

02:24:27.000 By the way, not by this person.

02:24:28.000 I'm not blaming this person.

02:24:31.000 Many public health officials and prominent scientists dismissed the idea as a conspiracy theory.

02:24:36.000 I wonder why they did that.

02:24:37.000 I wonder if there's an email paper trail that's already been established.

02:24:42.000 There is.

02:24:42.000 Insisting that a virus had emerged from animals in a seafood market in Wuhan, China.

02:24:47.000 And when a nonprofit called EcoHealth Alliance lost a great grant, lost a grant because it was planning to conduct risky research into bat viruses with the Wuhan Institute of Virology, research that if conducted with lax safety standards, could have resulted in a dangerous pathogenization.

02:25:03.000 No fewer than 77 Nobel laureates and 31 scientific societies lined up to defend the organization.

02:25:12.000 Yeah, they defend themselves.

02:25:14.000 I mean, it's appeal to authority.

02:25:15.000 And they fucked us.

02:25:17.000 And you guys were a part of it, by the way.

02:25:18.000 That newspaper was a big part of it.

02:25:20.000 Big part of calling the lab leak theory racist, which was really kooky.

02:25:25.000 It's strange that everything is concretized on the internet for the rest of time.

02:25:29.000 Yeah. I mean, people can go back and try and retrograde, remove stuff that happened, but there's always Internet Archive is fantastic for this.

02:25:37.000 Yeah, for the most part, you can find it if you're inspired.

02:25:42.000 How is it that so many U-turns, regardless of what it is, regardless of which side it is, the sort of permanent state of amnesia that everybody's in?

02:25:52.000 There was this WhatsApp message.

02:25:56.000 You ever have one of those WhatsApp messages where it says forwarded many times at the top?

02:26:00.000 And you're like, oh, this is going to be good.

02:26:01.000 It's just an advert.

02:26:03.000 It's just a banner.

02:26:05.000 Forwarded many times.

02:26:06.000 And it was a single squaddy, a guy in...

02:26:10.000 We're fatigued walking down a street in London and a screenshot, I think, of a text saying that someone had said that the army was going to be deployed on the streets of London to keep everybody in the house through martial law, that this was how intense that the lockdowns were going to get.

02:26:23.000 And it was going to happen on this particular day.

02:26:25.000 It goes crazy on Facebook, crazy on WhatsApp.

02:26:28.000 Never happened.

02:26:29.000 And, like, all of the people that shared that, that were adamant, that created all of these stories and theories around it, like, no one ever actually...

02:26:38.000 Went to go and call those people out about what it was that they'd pushed.

02:26:41.000 All of the people that were adamant, global health passports, the vaccine passport, that's going to come, that's going to happen.

02:26:48.000 I mean, the unfalsifiable version of it is because we knew that it was going to happen, they weren't able to do it.

02:26:53.000 So actually, we were the righteous resistance in doing the thing.

02:26:56.000 And the same with whether it's lab leak theory, whether it's Joe Biden's mental decline, no matter what it is, you can put this position out there.

02:27:04.000 It's fucking...

02:27:07.000 Fortified on the internet for the rest of time.

02:27:09.000 And after long enough, you're like, I don't remember that.

02:27:12.000 You're like fucking the most gaslighty partner that you've ever been with.

02:27:14.000 I'm not...

02:27:15.000 Are you sure?

02:27:16.000 I don't think I did say that.

02:27:18.000 I'd do this fucking fugazi switcheroo, some lexical Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

02:27:23.000 And I don't have to atone for my previous sins anymore.

02:27:26.000 Well, I think in this case, you have an individual journalist who wrote this story.

02:27:32.000 I do not know the history of this individual journalist, but what they said is accurate and important.

02:27:37.000 So it's good that the New York Times has this come-to-Jesus moment where they lay out, The conspiracy theories were all true.

02:27:46.000 That's what the title should be.

02:27:48.000 The conspiracy theories were all true.

02:27:50.000 Yeah, the shot wasn't effective.

02:27:52.000 Yeah, there were therapeutics that were available that were dismissed and that bad studies were created in order to make sure that people weren't taking these drugs because we needed the emergency use authorization.

02:28:05.000 And the only way you can get that is if you have no treatment.

02:28:09.000 So you had to rely on one thing, and that one thing was the vaccine.

02:28:13.000 And they all participated in it.

02:28:15.000 How much do you think New York Times with articles like that, Bezos coming out recently and saying that there's this sort of balance thing that he's got going on at the Washington Post, Zuckerberg's recent sort of pivot with regards to fact-checking on meta platforms, how many of those do you think would have happened if there hadn't been a Trump victory in November?

02:28:34.000 How much of this is blowing with the wind, do you think?

02:28:36.000 Most of it's blowing with the wind.

02:28:37.000 It's the society.

02:28:39.000 Society has decided we're done.

02:28:40.000 You know, this was Trump getting elected.

02:28:43.000 This was Elon buying Twitter.

02:28:45.000 This was, you know, and this is the blowback that you're seeing, these organized protests and vandalism on Tesla dealerships.

02:28:55.000 They're encouraging people.

02:28:56.000 There's so many videos of people just smashing Teslas, carving swastikas into the side of Teslas.

02:29:03.000 Because sentry mode, these cars all have sentry mode.

02:29:05.000 So you can leave your Tesla parked and it has HD video of everything that's happening all around it.

02:29:10.000 And it uploads it so you can just see who did what?

02:29:11.000 Yeah, you can watch it.

02:29:13.000 That's why all these videos are out.

02:29:14.000 All these videos are out is people extracting them from their cars.

02:29:17.000 The video isn't published by the rioters.

02:29:19.000 The video is published by the victims.

02:29:22.000 Exactly. Fuck.

02:29:23.000 Yeah. And there's tons of people that have been arrested for this now.

02:29:26.000 Tons of people.

02:29:27.000 I don't know what...

02:29:28.000 I mean, I guess it's a way of trying to protest against some person that you don't like.

02:29:34.000 Yeah, but it's funded.

02:29:36.000 That's what's crazy.

02:29:37.000 And it's all because what Elon is doing with USAID and what he's doing with Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency is finding a lot of inefficiency, waste, and fraud.

02:29:48.000 Most of it, he believes, is waste.

02:29:49.000 Some of it is fraud.

02:29:51.000 And it's a lot of...

02:29:53.000 There's a lot of money that's going in directions it shouldn't be going.

02:29:56.000 And then there's stuff that's legal that probably shouldn't be legal, like non-government organizations doing the bidding of the government because they're funded by the government.

02:30:04.000 There's certain things the government is not allowed to do, but a non-government organization, an NGO, can do.

02:30:11.000 What's an example of that?

02:30:12.000 Well, regime change.

02:30:13.000 Like, a lot of what this money is...

02:30:17.000 Going to it goes to foreign countries where we have an interest in having the people that are running that country on our side or We don't like them and we want to fund the rebels And so you can fund the people, you can fund them through all sorts of organizations where you hide and mask the money and you move it around and you have essentially blank checks.

02:30:41.000 And you can just funnel billions of dollars all over the world with no accounting.

02:30:46.000 Mike Benz is like the most prophetic person of all time, isn't he?

02:30:49.000 I mean, he talked about it on this podcast before Doge and before USAID and everybody was like, oh, conspiracy theorists and this and that.

02:30:58.000 This guy, so he used to work for the State Department.

02:31:00.000 What the fuck does he know?

02:31:01.000 Apparently he knows everything.

02:31:02.000 He knows all of it and he can spit it out.

02:31:05.000 His recall is incredible.

02:31:07.000 And, you know, that guy's got to be fucking terrified because he's out there exposing.

02:31:12.000 He's essentially the guy who led Elon to the coffin where the vampire sleeps.

02:31:18.000 Like, this is where it is.

02:31:20.000 It must be an odd situation to be in, because most of the time, the level of scrutiny that you're under and the level of security threat that's likely is kind of, it goes in line with status, fame, and that also goes in line with maybe some resources too.

02:31:36.000 So as people get more likely to be a target...

02:31:39.000 They're also more able to perhaps be able to protect themselves with living in a nicer house, gated community.

02:31:47.000 Security, like Elon.

02:31:47.000 Yeah, having security and stuff like that.

02:31:49.000 But this is one of those weird situations where your knowledge, your particular insight makes you so uniquely vulnerable or such a heavy target.

02:32:00.000 But it hasn't come with the concordant increase in status and resources that would allow you to be able to actually protect yourself.

02:32:09.000 Crisis of a whistleblower.

02:32:10.000 Yes. Yes.

02:32:12.000 Whistleblower and investigative journalists.

02:32:14.000 Yeah. I mean, this is why Julian Assange spent so much time in jail.

02:32:17.000 I was just about to bring up Ross Ulbricht.

02:32:20.000 Yes. You guys must have tried to reach out to him.

02:32:22.000 Yeah, we reached out, but he doesn't really want to talk to anybody right now, which is totally understandable.

02:32:27.000 He's got an open invitation.

02:32:29.000 If he ever just says, okay, I'd like to talk.

02:32:33.000 Whenever. Yeah, I'd love to sit down and talk to him.

02:32:35.000 You know, I'd love to find the real story because the narrative and the documentary, the docudrama that was made about the Silk Road and what he did, you know, I'd like to know how much of that is bullshit.

02:32:50.000 Because I think a lot of it probably was.

02:32:52.000 You know, I think they were trying to set him up, for sure.

02:32:55.000 And I think there's probably some things that he was accused of that aren't accurate.

02:33:02.000 You know, I'd like to know.

02:33:03.000 Isn't it funny that we always think about conspiracy, conspiracy theories, all of this stuff as always being in the past?

02:33:10.000 And that when something is unfolding right now, I wonder how much stuff is being ignored by the media but will be studied by historians?

02:33:19.000 I wonder.

02:33:20.000 I wonder what would be.

02:33:21.000 That's one of my friend's favorite questions to ask.

02:33:24.000 What is being ignored by the media but will be studied by historians?

02:33:26.000 I certainly think that smartphone use will be one of those.

02:33:30.000 You know, there was that...

02:33:31.000 Five deathbed regrets of the dying.

02:33:34.000 I wish I'd kept in touch with my friends.

02:33:36.000 I wish I hadn't worked so much.

02:33:37.000 I wish I'd allowed myself to be happy.

02:33:39.000 I wish I'd lived the life I wanted and not the life that other people had for me, blah, blah.

02:33:43.000 Yeah. I would bet everything that I'm worth that within the next couple of decades, I wish I'd spent less time on my phone.

02:33:49.000 Yeah. Would be one of those.

02:33:51.000 No doubt.

02:33:52.000 100%. Well, your time is so valuable.

02:33:54.000 And how do you have five extra hours a day?

02:33:58.000 Well, look at your screen time.

02:33:59.000 It'll save five hours.

02:34:00.000 We were talking about this before we got started, that you have the same number of hours that somebody did 100 years ago.

02:34:07.000 But the average amount of time that Americans spend on screens is eight hours at the moment.

02:34:11.000 Is it eight?

02:34:12.000 Eight. On screens, all screens.

02:34:14.000 The average time they spend asleep is 6.5.

02:34:17.000 So people are sleeping for one and a half hours less than they spend their time on their phone.

02:34:23.000 And what are you getting out of it?

02:34:24.000 Nothing tangible.

02:34:26.000 It's so hard.

02:34:27.000 It's so hard.

02:34:28.000 It's so addicting.

02:34:28.000 It's designed to be addicting.

02:34:30.000 I mean, you've had Tristan Harris on here.

02:34:32.000 The way, the variable schedule reward that tempts you, that keeps you there, you don't know what's going to happen.

02:34:39.000 This is so interesting.

02:34:40.000 I had the guy who wrote, Stuart Russell, he wrote the original AI textbook.

02:34:46.000 It's translated into 70 languages around the world.

02:34:49.000 He taught me this really interesting thing about how the algorithms work.

02:34:51.000 So we know...

02:34:52.000 Mm-hmm.

02:35:07.000 The first one is to be better at providing you with things that you'll select.

02:35:11.000 The second one is nudging your preferences so that you are more easy to predict.

02:35:17.000 Because if you just give something the optimizing function of cause Joe to click on a thing and Stick about click-through and watch time.

02:35:25.000 If you get it to do that, it'll just find any route.

02:35:28.000 It's not bounded by...

02:35:29.000 And you must make sure that it's his existing preferences.

02:35:32.000 You can't change his preferences.

02:35:34.000 But this is one of the reasons, I think, why polarization has increased.

02:35:38.000 Not just that edge cases get used, it pushes people further apart, they get put off into their silos, echo chambers, recursive stuff, blah, blah, blah.

02:35:46.000 I think a big part of it is just the algorithms find it easier.

02:35:50.000 To be able to predict you, which gives them an incentive.

02:35:52.000 Now, it's not like a conscious incentive, but it gives you this incentive to be pushed out to the sides.

02:35:58.000 And there's this worry about – I learned about this idea called knowingness.

02:36:01.000 So polarization, everyone thinks it's a big deal, and I think it is.

02:36:06.000 It's a big problem.

02:36:07.000 But knowingness is like an uncurious intellectual insulation.

02:36:15.000 So people believe that they know the answer to the question.

02:36:18.000 Before the question has even been asked.

02:36:20.000 I know what the outcome is.

02:36:23.000 I know what the answer is before you've even asked me the question.

02:36:25.000 And what's interesting about this epidemic of knowingness we have at the moment is if the problem is poor information, you can fix it typically with better information.

02:36:35.000 I will give you a better quality of information, but if the problem is knowingness...

02:36:39.000 You are insulated from ever updating your beliefs because no amount of existing new information is going to actually help you.

02:36:46.000 There's this really cool quote that said, most people think that they are thinking when all they are doing is rearranging their prejudices.

02:36:54.000 And I think that explains why the culture war is so boring.

02:36:57.000 Culture war is largely super boring because both sides act as if the facts are already settled whilst not agreeing on the facts.

02:37:05.000 You know what I mean?

02:37:06.000 Yeah. So how is it that we've got to the stage where people's, their prejudices just get moved around until they can come up with the outcome that they already wanted before you even ask the question about the thing that you're talking about?

02:37:20.000 That's the situation we end up with, and I think it explains why, I think it explains why the culture wars feel so samey, and nothing really ever seems to move.

02:37:29.000 Like, it's not moved forward.

02:37:31.000 It goes at such a snail's pace.

02:37:33.000 News is operating at light speed, and the way that we move forward with our conceptual understanding of the world is moving forward at a snail's pace.

02:37:41.000 How are these two things happening together?

02:37:44.000 Well, it's technological advance, right?

02:37:48.000 Technological advance is so much greater and faster than biological advance.

02:37:52.000 This is the scariest thing that leads us down the road to AI, is that as...

02:37:59.000 We are so limited in our biological ability to evolve.

02:38:04.000 Biological evolution takes so long.

02:38:06.000 Cultural evolution takes so long.

02:38:08.000 Whereas technological evolution is almost instantaneous.

02:38:11.000 And we are being overrun by this thing that's captivated our attention.

02:38:18.000 I was talking about this the other day.

02:38:20.000 I was like, imagine if there was a drug that made you stare at your hand for six hours a day.

02:38:23.000 He'd be like, keep me the fuck away from that drug.

02:38:25.000 But that's what your phone's doing.

02:38:28.000 Mostly you're getting nothing.

02:38:30.000 Occasionally you get a funny meme.

02:38:32.000 You know, if I looked at the amount of time that I spend online on a given day, and how much of it is really fascinating to me.

02:38:39.000 Well, every now and then you get a story, like that story about the whole universe might be inside of a black hole, and then I'm on a rabbit hole.

02:38:45.000 The pyramid, so there's this interesting insight about that.

02:38:47.000 There's a few things you'll get, but I kind of feel like you will get those if you're offline, just by other people being online.

02:38:54.000 They'll send it to you.

02:38:55.000 You're almost better off.

02:38:57.000 You don't need to be the one doing the first pass scouring.

02:39:00.000 Exactly. Your resources are better utilized by not doing that.

02:39:05.000 Did you see that?

02:39:06.000 It was a guy who removed people's phones from their hands.

02:39:10.000 It was a photographer who went around.

02:39:12.000 I think it was maybe New York City.

02:39:14.000 And he took photos of people and then...

02:39:16.000 CGI'd the phones out.

02:39:18.000 You know, you're talking about, imagine if there was this thing and it made you stare at your hand.

02:39:20.000 He actually did it.

02:39:22.000 So it shows just how absurd it is.

02:39:24.000 You know, you've got an entire train carriage on the subway on the underground.

02:39:27.000 And everyone's staring at their hand.

02:39:28.000 And it's just people staring down at their hands.

02:39:31.000 Like this.

02:39:31.000 And it needs that to sort of throw the absurdity into it.

02:39:34.000 But then on the flip side, if you don't live with your parents, you're in a different city, you work a job that you're not that enamored by, maybe your health's good, maybe it's not so good, you're a little bit worried about stuff, you're kind of bored a lot of the time, You need to be sedated.

02:39:47.000 Yeah. Oh, there we go.

02:39:48.000 Oh, wow.

02:39:51.000 All those people just sitting there staring.

02:39:53.000 Oh, that's so crazy.

02:39:54.000 Jamie, go back up to that one of the kids.

02:39:57.000 Wow. It wasn't that long.

02:39:59.000 This was 2015.

02:40:00.000 In 2012, I started trying to take pictures of people in public looking at their phones, and it wasn't that common then.

02:40:06.000 So it wasn't that...

02:40:07.000 Well, that's like when social media kicked off.

02:40:10.000 In the beginning, no one was on it.

02:40:11.000 You'd see it.

02:40:12.000 It's like most people weren't even on Twitter.

02:40:14.000 They're like, why would I be on that?

02:40:16.000 And, you know, people were using it to promote things, and then they started using it to elevate their profile, and then people became influencers.

02:40:22.000 And once people became influencers, and once people, like a regular person, get a couple of million followers, then all of a sudden you get sponsors, and that's your job now?

02:40:31.000 Notoriety, respect.

02:40:32.000 Yeah, and fame.

02:40:34.000 I remember when I was living in L.A., it was right around the time that a lot of these...

02:40:39.000 God, what was it back then?

02:40:43.000 What was the thing that was like...

02:40:46.000 It wasn't TikTok.

02:40:49.000 Vine? Yes.

02:40:51.000 Yeah, it was Vine.

02:40:53.000 Vine influencers were the first.

02:40:54.000 And they were famous.

02:40:56.000 So they'd go to restaurants and be like, that's blah, blah, blah.

02:40:58.000 Like, who's that?

02:40:59.000 Like, oh, he's got 35 million Vine subscribers.

02:41:02.000 Like, what?

02:41:03.000 It was bizarre.

02:41:04.000 Because you've seen just regular people that would do antics or cause scenes or do something to get attention.

02:41:11.000 And they developed large followings.

02:41:13.000 Wasn't, isn't it the number one job that primary school kids want is to be a YouTuber or an influencer?

02:41:19.000 Yeah. Well, they all watch them.

02:41:21.000 They all watch people eat food and open up toys.

02:41:24.000 And it's like...

02:41:25.000 Very weird.

02:41:26.000 It's very weird stuff because no one would have ever predicted that that would be something would captivate people's attention on a television, right?

02:41:33.000 There was no unboxing shows on television, but yet unboxing shows on the internet are huge.

02:41:38.000 People get sucked into the most mundane things.

02:41:41.000 Someone opening a package.

02:41:42.000 Oh, look at this.

02:41:43.000 Here's the new phone.

02:41:44.000 Yeah, unboxing in some ways I actually think is quite satisfying.

02:41:47.000 I quite like watching the people that have got his new MacBook M4 thing and it's shot all nice.

02:41:52.000 MKBHD. Yeah, he does a great job.

02:41:54.000 Watching him do his stuff is really great.

02:41:56.000 But he also does a comprehensive analysis of the tech.

02:41:59.000 It's not just, here's me playing with a new MacBook.

02:42:02.000 No, he's doing a review of state-of-the-art.

02:42:07.000 Like, where is technology currently?

02:42:09.000 And what's the best version?

02:42:11.000 I think when it comes to desiring a life, looking at, okay, what is it that I want?

02:42:16.000 You need to be very, very careful about what the process is in order to get the outcome that you want.

02:42:21.000 Because if you want the outcome, but you're not prepared to live the life needed to get it, you're just asking for disappointment.

02:42:28.000 Yeah, well said.

02:42:29.000 My friend talks about Call of Duty versus war.

02:42:32.000 And he talks, you know, you think about...

02:42:35.000 This is what going on holiday to a place is, and this is what having to live there is like.

02:42:41.000 You can go to somewhere and go, it was lovely for a week.

02:42:43.000 We were in the Congo.

02:42:44.000 Yeah, it was so nice.

02:42:45.000 But you go, what's it like if you can't leave?

02:42:48.000 It's literally the difference between going camping or being homeless, right?

02:42:53.000 One is an imposition, and the other one is a choice.

02:42:56.000 And I think that more young kids need to realize what the reality of being an influencer is like.

02:43:02.000 It's not just going to the Seychelles and uploading a selfie or getting...

02:43:06.000 I don't know what they do, like Play-Doh, fucking jelly, new video games.

02:43:10.000 That's not what it's like.

02:43:11.000 Look at the Twitch streamers.

02:43:13.000 Look at most of the Twitch streamers.

02:43:15.000 They are like the fucking grunts of the content creation.

02:43:21.000 Factories of content, eight hours a day, five days a week, just fucking stream of consciousness.

02:43:27.000 Someone puts something in the chat and you go, oh, well, let's watch this thing.

02:43:30.000 Let's watch that thing.

02:43:31.000 It's not...

02:43:34.000 If you do not want the life that you need to get in order to get the outcome that you're looking for, you need to be very, very careful about...

02:43:41.000 Because the reality is war.

02:43:42.000 It's not Call of Duty.

02:43:43.000 It's the same thing with being in a band.

02:43:45.000 It's like, I love the idea of traveling the world and playing to these big crowds and doing all the rest of it.

02:43:50.000 It's like, okay, you're going to have to live in a van with four other sweaty dudes for like half a decade first.

02:43:56.000 If you're lucky.

02:43:58.000 And that's if you've managed to break through.

02:44:00.000 You're going to have to spend so long, a decade learning to play guitar.

02:44:04.000 You're going to have to write songs that never see the day of light.

02:44:07.000 You're going to have to do all of this stuff.

02:44:10.000 And you have no idea if it's going to work.

02:44:13.000 I think about the gap from where people are in a place that they don't want to be until they get to a place that they do.

02:44:21.000 And I think of it like a lonely chapter.

02:44:24.000 So everybody that has got from a place where they don't want to be to one where they are, there's a point where they're so different that they can't resonate with their old set of friends.

02:44:34.000 Right. But they're not yet sufficiently developed that they've created their new set of friends.

02:44:40.000 And there's this temptation to go back to the old patterns, the old ways of thinking.

02:44:46.000 And I did this live show in London last year, my first big headline show at the Eventim Apollo in London.

02:44:53.000 It was pretty cool.

02:44:54.000 And this idea, I think, was one that really resonated with a lot of people because everybody's trying to grow and there is an incentive for you to stay in the same place because not that many people grow.

02:45:06.000 Most people don't change.

02:45:07.000 They make little changes.

02:45:09.000 You know, they'll cut their hair or they'll lose five pounds or, you know, they'll switch from one company to another.

02:45:16.000 But how many people do you know that have lost 50 pounds or moved to a different country or have genuinely changed the way that they see the world?

02:45:23.000 It's pretty rare.

02:45:24.000 It's not that common.

02:45:25.000 And we are such mimetic creatures.

02:45:27.000 We're so shaped by the people around us that we can't help.

02:45:33.000 But be tempted.

02:45:34.000 You know, you're going to have to do something.

02:45:35.000 If you want to go from where you are to where you want to be, you're going to have to do something that makes you more different, more weird, more easy to be mocked, especially if you come from a country like the UK where I'm from.

02:45:44.000 Being different is not particularly celebrated in that way.

02:45:47.000 It's the sort of thing that's quite easily mocked.

02:45:48.000 There's a big culture of piss-taking.

02:45:50.000 And if you start, what are you talking to people on the internet for?

02:45:53.000 It's fucking weird.

02:45:55.000 That's stupid.

02:45:55.000 That's not going to work.

02:45:56.000 Why are you going to do that?

02:45:57.000 So if you don't have that level of enthusiasm, there is no support around you.

02:46:01.000 To tell you that the thing that you're trying to do, taking up the martial art, why are you training this Taekwondo bullshit, like, you know, fucking six nights a week?

02:46:10.000 Why are you coaching all of these mums and all of these, like, old guys on how to do Tai Chi or whatever? 1.00

02:46:15.000 Why are you doing that?

02:46:16.000 Well, because maybe I'm sort of pulled to it, and there is this temptation to go back to your old ways of thinking.

02:46:23.000 Go back to the road that you already know how it's going to end.

02:46:28.000 And I...

02:46:29.000 Get the sense that this is not a bug.

02:46:33.000 It is a feature.

02:46:34.000 It's a part of moving from a place that you do not want to be to one that you do.

02:46:39.000 And for the most part, you actually need to live through this lonely chapter.

02:46:43.000 And you look at it and you go, well, the fucking Rocky montage was 3.5 minutes.

02:46:47.000 For me, it's been five years.

02:46:49.000 Where's the championship ring?

02:46:51.000 You know what I mean?

02:46:51.000 I haven't won the fight.

02:46:52.000 Where's Apollo Creed?

02:46:53.000 None of this stuff's happened.

02:46:55.000 The thing that I wish more stories talked about, If you watch it in the movies, yeah, sure, there's ups and downs in the journey of the athlete that's going to change his life around and get the goal.

02:47:08.000 But his self-belief never wavers, right?

02:47:10.000 He makes the decision, and it's one straight shot, typically.

02:47:14.000 And there'll be some challenges, but he'll get there.

02:47:16.000 His self-belief never wavers.

02:47:18.000 I don't think that that's what the experience of doing personal growth is like at all.

02:47:23.000 In my experience, you're just swimming in...

02:47:29.000 Uncertainty and fear and a lack of belief that it's even going to happen.

02:47:34.000 You don't even have the promise of glory on the other side of it.

02:47:37.000 I don't even know if this is going to be worth it.

02:47:39.000 And I'm fucking doing Sam Harris's waking up meditation app and I'm journaling on the morning.

02:47:43.000 I'm going to the gym.

02:47:44.000 Why am I eating meat and fruit?

02:47:45.000 Does this even work?

02:47:46.000 Like, you know, you're doing all of this stuff, trying, scrabbling like a guy in a fucking well trying to find a handhold.

02:47:52.000 And if you don't have a good community of people that are also doing that, you're on your own.

02:47:55.000 Yeah. Yeah.

02:47:56.000 And this is most people, I think, most people's experience because if most people don't change, you are going to be an outlier if you're somebody who does change.

02:48:06.000 I think about personal growth kind of like a rocket ship taking off.

02:48:11.000 And as you take off, you've got a particular velocity that you're moving at.

02:48:15.000 And what you want is to find other people moving at the same velocity as you.

02:48:19.000 But the quicker that you move, the fewer people are going to be like you.

02:48:22.000 So some people will be ahead of you.

02:48:24.000 And you're in this lonely chapter and then you catch up to them.

02:48:27.000 And then, oh no.

02:48:30.000 And this isn't, you know, some comment on people that work on themselves or like morally better or worse than anybody else.

02:48:36.000 But it's just a stark sort of fact about you talk to people and you resonate with people that are at the same level of life as you are.

02:48:45.000 And that kind of makes sense.

02:48:46.000 You have things to discuss.

02:48:47.000 You're encountering the same sorts of challenges, whether it's in terms of your self-worth or your wealth or your relationship status or all of these things.

02:48:54.000 Birds of a feather, right?

02:48:55.000 And one of the, I guess, difficult realizations of people who want to change their life is that if you do it well, you might have to go through a period where you let go of all of your friends.

02:49:08.000 But the really bad realization is if you do it really well, you might have to do that multiple times throughout your life.

02:49:14.000 You find a group of people.

02:49:16.000 Finally, I've landed.

02:49:17.000 Oh, that period where I was on my own and I didn't really understand.

02:49:21.000 Oh, fuck.

02:49:22.000 I'm still going.

02:49:24.000 You mean I've got to do it again?

02:49:27.000 I've got to do it again.

02:49:28.000 I just thought that I'd found my group and I've got to do it again.

02:49:32.000 This lonely chapter thing is a big deal and I think that it explains why so few people make big changes.

02:49:39.000 Because the temptation is always going to be to just go back to what's normal, go back to what I know.

02:49:44.000 And it's why, you know, America, for all that it's a horrible, cis, hetero, patriarchal superstructure that's misogynistically keeping everybody down, it's an enthusiastic and sort of excitable country.

02:49:59.000 And you guys have kind of got permanent first-line cocaine energy about everything.

02:50:05.000 And for me...

02:50:08.000 It seems to be a real enthusing environment.

02:50:12.000 It encourages me to do things.

02:50:13.000 Helps me to take risks.

02:50:15.000 Either that or get kicked in the head a lot.

02:50:16.000 And I just love it.

02:50:18.000 I love the fact that it makes me feel confident in doing difficult things.

02:50:23.000 And, yeah, I wish that...

02:50:26.000 More people had that community around them.

02:50:29.000 I think largely Reddit is just a website filled with people who couldn't find other people to talk about their niche in their hometown.

02:50:36.000 Like this particular Warhammer 40k version or whatever.

02:50:42.000 But yeah, it's difficult.

02:50:43.000 And when you get to the stage where you're faced with some personal growth decision, you're always going to have to make this value exchange of, do I want to move forward on my own?

02:50:53.000 Or do I want to go back with my friends?

02:50:54.000 That's a good point, man.

02:50:56.000 Chris, always great to talk to you, brother.

02:50:59.000 Really appreciate your insight.

02:51:00.000 You're a very brilliant guy.

02:51:01.000 And you're always...

02:51:02.000 You're fun.

02:51:03.000 Fun to talk to.

02:51:04.000 I appreciate you too, man.

02:51:05.000 Thanks for having the courage to put all your thoughts out there.

02:51:09.000 And I love what you do.

02:51:11.000 I love your show.

02:51:12.000 And you're awesome, man.

02:51:14.000 You're awesome too, dude.

02:51:15.000 Thanks for being here.

02:51:15.000 Every time that you bring me on, every time that we get to speak, I really appreciate it.

02:51:19.000 So, thank you.

02:51:20.000 My pleasure.

The Joe Rogan Experience - March 21, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2293 - Chris Williamson

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