The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2308 - Jordan Peterson

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast.

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:03.000 Check it out.

00:00:06.000 Train by day.

00:00:07.000 Joe Rogan Podcast by night.

00:00:08.000 All day.

00:00:12.000 No, no.

00:00:14.000 I'm too vain.

00:00:15.000 That's exactly right.

00:00:16.000 I look back and I think, oh, those headphones are pushing up my hair.

00:00:21.000 Isn't that sad?

00:00:22.000 You shave your head.

00:00:23.000 You never look back if you do.

00:00:25.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:00:26.000 Oh, it's the greatest thing in the world.

00:00:27.000 I have a big dent here.

00:00:27.000 It's freedom.

00:00:30.000 When a meteorite landed on me when I was a kid.

00:00:32.000 A meteorite?

00:00:33.000 Oh, funny story.

00:00:34.000 I know.

00:00:35.000 I've got plenty of cuts on my head.

00:00:36.000 I got them all over the place.

00:00:37.000 Well, you're looking pretty unscarred.

00:00:39.000 Oh, the back of my head.

00:00:40.000 I have one when I was a little kid.

00:00:43.000 It's pretty big.

00:00:45.000 One of these cranes that lifts up sewer pipes, those big concrete pipes, bang me off the back of the head.

00:00:52.000 Oh, yeah, that's not good.

00:00:53.000 I grayed out, went to the hospital.

00:00:55.000 Were you a different person before that experience?

00:00:57.000 I don't know.

00:00:58.000 I need to have to talk to my mom.

00:00:59.000 I was always a little wild.

00:01:01.000 This could be of autobiographical significance.

00:01:03.000 Oh, there's definitely a lot of head trauma.

00:01:05.000 Were you knocked out?

00:01:06.000 No, no.

00:01:07.000 I stayed conscious, but I got close.

00:01:09.000 That's the big predictor.

00:01:10.000 I got gray.

00:01:11.000 I grayed out that I came back to.

00:01:14.000 I didn't completely go unconscious.

00:01:17.000 So Jamie went golfing this weekend with O.J. Simpson's golf clubs.

00:01:21.000 Uh-oh.

00:01:22.000 Not with OJ.

00:01:23.000 He's not here.

00:01:24.000 You should be exercised.

00:01:26.000 Jamie bought OJ Simpson's golf clubs.

00:01:29.000 This is like a childhood dream?

00:01:31.000 No, we're just for sale.

00:01:33.000 I said, why not?

00:01:33.000 I saw him for sale.

00:01:34.000 They came in. 0.60

00:01:35.000 I wanted some big grips.

00:01:37.000 Yeah, a couple of my friends.

00:01:38.000 What did Shane get?

00:01:40.000 Shane got a bunch of stuff, right?

00:01:41.000 I talked him into buying some stuff, yeah.

00:01:42.000 He got like scarves and ties.

00:01:44.000 He bought a bunch of ties.

00:01:45.000 I think scarves too.

00:01:46.000 Okay, he bought a trophy.

00:01:48.000 A trophy?

00:01:48.000 And a Bill Clinton signed photo.

00:01:50.000 And he spent thousands of dollars.

00:01:52.000 What was this?

00:01:52.000 Was this some sort of O.J. Simpson auction?

00:01:54.000 Yeah, it was like an estate sale, yeah.

00:01:56.000 Yeah. You know, he's dead now, so you can get his stuff.

00:01:59.000 Right, for nothing.

00:02:01.000 Pennies on the dollar.

00:02:02.000 I mean, only people like Jamie and Jane are dumb enough to buy.

00:02:08.000 For a goof, it's one of those things like you're either getting it for a goof or you're a very dark person. 0.99

00:02:13.000 Yeah, right.

00:02:15.000 I wouldn't want to own it, even for a goof.

00:02:17.000 Like if I found O.J. played pool, I wouldn't want his cue.

00:02:21.000 Was there cues?

00:02:22.000 No, there wasn't.

00:02:23.000 There was a weird notebook that Robert Kardashian had, like, handwritten stuff to him.

00:02:27.000 I was like, whoa, that might be interesting.

00:02:30.000 It's taking a vicious turn, Joe, already.

00:02:32.000 Yeah, that's a dark story.

00:02:34.000 It is.

00:02:35.000 Yeah. Yeah, and you only know the surface of it.

00:02:38.000 Well, it's dark in both ways.

00:02:39.000 It's also dark and planted evidence.

00:02:41.000 You know, there was blood at the scene of the crime that had preservative in it.

00:02:46.000 Allegedly, supposedly, according to Robert Kardashian and according to, I believe, the forensic scientists when they analyzed it.

00:02:53.000 It matched OJ's blood, but they had to draw blood from OJ in order to determine whether or not it was his blood that was at the scene of the crime.

00:03:00.000 And some of the blood found at the scene of the crime had that preservative in it that they use.

00:03:06.000 They were sloppy in the 90s, you know?

00:03:09.000 Compared to now.

00:03:10.000 Well, there was no DNA evidence back then.

00:03:14.000 People were – cops were – there's always going to be a certain percentage of cops that just want to convict somebody regardless of the evidence.

00:03:22.000 And if they're in their mind and they believe someone is guilty, they will do whatever they can including planting evidence I guess.

00:03:31.000 At least that's allegedly.

00:03:32.000 Not that I don't think he did it.

00:03:34.000 I definitely think he did it.

00:03:35.000 But I also think the cops planted evidence, which is probably at least partially why he got off.

00:03:42.000 I think the big reason why he got off was Rodney King, right?

00:03:46.000 Right. Yeah.

00:03:47.000 Right. Yeah.

00:03:49.000 Have you gone into the whole George Floyd story at all?

00:03:54.000 Have you ever looked at what they actually did to him?

00:03:58.000 It's a combination of things.

00:04:00.000 Like, what the cop did was horrible, but also he was dying.

00:04:04.000 You know, like, most people probably, like, if they did that to you, you probably would have lived.

00:04:10.000 You know, that guy had an enlarged heart.

00:04:11.000 That was my understanding of it.

00:04:13.000 He was fucked up.

00:04:13.000 But that cop did lean on his neck, which is always interesting to see people try to minimize that, you know?

00:04:19.000 I'm always, like, you gotta be able to just say what it is.

00:04:24.000 Well, that situation can be ugly in a multitude of ways.

00:04:28.000 That's when things get well.

00:04:28.000 Yes. Right?

00:04:30.000 That's when it's very difficult to pick your moral pathway forward.

00:04:33.000 All your choices are not good.

00:04:36.000 Yes, which is oftentimes the case when it comes to conflicts, right?

00:04:41.000 Yes. Conflicts are very complicated and people want it to be binary.

00:04:46.000 They want there to be a good guy and a bad guy and that's oftentimes not really the case.

00:04:51.000 Well, it's hard to organize yourself for combat unless you are quite convinced that you're the good guy.

00:04:56.000 So there's a default to that.

00:04:58.000 Dichotomy that's a necessary part of, well, even standing your own ground, right?

00:05:03.000 Because otherwise you get demoralized.

00:05:04.000 And so I suppose people, well, when they're threatened, they default to a simple narrative because you can't defend yourself.

00:05:14.000 In some ways, it's very hard to defend yourself, especially physically or militarily, without a...

00:05:19.000 Pretty cut-and-dried narrative.

00:05:20.000 Well, especially like military operatives.

00:05:23.000 You know, you have to have a very...

00:05:24.000 Your life and the people that you're with, their life depends on you not having any confusion about whether or not it's morally correct to be doing what you're doing.

00:05:34.000 That's why they like to break it down to kill bad dudes. 0.99

00:05:36.000 You know, kill bad dudes.

00:05:37.000 Right. Real simple.

00:05:38.000 Let's go.

00:05:39.000 They tell us what to do, we do it.

00:05:41.000 Which is why you want to stay alive?

00:05:43.000 You want your teammates to stay alive?

00:05:45.000 That's what you have to do.

00:05:46.000 Yeah, well, you never know when doubt will cause a fraction of a second difference in reaction time.

00:05:51.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:54.000 That's always the thing with physical altercations with people, too.

00:05:58.000 You know, oftentimes people get sucked into these things where they're not sure whether to act or not act, and that's when they get in trouble.

00:06:04.000 Right. You know.

00:06:06.000 Right. That's probably true in life.

00:06:08.000 You don't want to oversimplify things, too, but once you've made a decision, well...

00:06:12.000 That's when it's necessary to put doubts behind you because otherwise you just act in half measures.

00:06:18.000 Yeah, and oftentimes you have to have done the wrong thing before, like failed to act or hesitated to act, and it cost you.

00:06:27.000 And then you have to learn that lesson.

00:06:28.000 It's very difficult to, like, know that.

00:06:31.000 Without experiencing mistakes.

00:06:33.000 You have to have failed to act and then realize, oh, I should have done something there.

00:06:38.000 Yeah, well, I think that's partly, too, one of the things that I often faced in my clinical practice and with the students that I mentored was this confusion about acting.

00:06:49.000 I don't know what to do, so what should I do?

00:06:52.000 Well, nothing.

00:06:53.000 I'll wait around until I figure out what to do.

00:06:55.000 It's like, no, you should put together a bad plan.

00:06:59.000 And you should implement it because even if you fail in the implementation, you'll gather information and then you can rectify the plan.

00:07:08.000 And so staying in that malaise until you know what to do makes you get older and more miserable and you gather no information along the way.

00:07:20.000 A bad plan is a good idea.

00:07:22.000 The best, you know, any plan is better than none.

00:07:26.000 That's a good rule of thumb.

00:07:27.000 And a bad plan...

00:07:29.000 A bad plan can be incrementally improved with experience.

00:07:34.000 Right. He who hesitates is lost.

00:07:36.000 Yeah. Yeah, that's really difficult for young people.

00:07:39.000 I think more so today than ever at any time in history because the distractions are so many and they're so engrossing.

00:07:46.000 You know, if you get out of high school, you don't know what to do, and then you start playing video games and you're on social media.

00:07:54.000 A day can slip by like that.

00:07:56.000 A day becomes a week, becomes a month, becomes a year.

00:08:00.000 And before you know it, you're 30. And you haven't done shit.

00:08:03.000 And that's really common.

00:08:05.000 That's really common today.

00:08:07.000 And I don't think we can ignore those factors.

00:08:09.000 The factors of just engrossing distractions.

00:08:14.000 Yeah, well, and the algorithms optimized for short-term attention.

00:08:18.000 You know, it's a weird thing, eh?

00:08:20.000 Because you could imagine that you would want a machine.

00:08:23.000 That offers you what you want, right?

00:08:25.000 Because you want ads that are targeted to you because you want to see a bunch of ads that aren't relevant to you now and then because maybe you'll learn something.

00:08:33.000 And content?

00:08:34.000 Well, why not have a machine shovel the same sort of things that you are interested in at you?

00:08:39.000 That's a kind of curation.

00:08:41.000 The problem comes, and we haven't figured this out at all technically and probably not psychologically, the problem comes in time frame, right?

00:08:49.000 Because there's a big difference between What you might be interested in if you were diligently striving towards a long-term goal that required conscientiousness and what's going to attract your attention right now, this moment.

00:09:03.000 And the thing about the algorithms is that they maximize for short-term attention.

00:09:07.000 So basically, they're actually optimizing for hedonism.

00:09:12.000 And then you might say, well, so what?

00:09:15.000 Because you're getting what you want.

00:09:16.000 Well, the problem with short-term impulsive hedonism is it doesn't...

00:09:20.000 Play out well over any reasonable time span.

00:09:23.000 Yeah. That's why you have to mature, which is painful and annoying, but absolutely necessary and much better than the alternative.

00:09:30.000 The alternative is exactly what...

00:09:32.000 That's Peter Pan, right?

00:09:34.000 Yeah. At 30-year-old, I still haven't grown up and I'm a little past my shelf life now, too.

00:09:42.000 I think people are afraid of losing fun.

00:09:45.000 They think that when you grow up, you lose fun.

00:09:48.000 But it's silly.

00:09:50.000 It's not true.

00:09:51.000 You can grow up and still have fun.

00:09:54.000 You just have to have discipline and prioritize your time.

00:09:59.000 Well, that's why Christ says to people that they have to become as little children, not stay.

00:10:06.000 You have to rediscover that.

00:10:08.000 Rediscover the joy of it.

00:10:10.000 Kids are good for that too, aren't they?

00:10:12.000 Because they teach you that again.

00:10:13.000 You look at the world through eyes of memory by the time you're an adult.

00:10:17.000 So the world loses its freshness.

00:10:21.000 The world loses its freshness because you see your memories instead of the world.

00:10:25.000 And then kids come along and you think, oh, yeah, that's really actually quite interesting.

00:10:30.000 And they're so compelled by everything because they're...

00:10:33.000 Perceptions are so fresh that they share that with you, and that can help reawaken that spirit of childhood play, let's say.

00:10:41.000 I've been thinking a lot about play in the last year or so.

00:10:45.000 Well, I spent a lot of time trying to take apart the causes of truly pathological degeneration on the sadistic side, on the criminal side, on the totalitarian side.

00:10:58.000 Very curious about tyranny.

00:11:03.000 It was very difficult for me to conceptualize the opposite of that as cleanly as I could characterize its presence.

00:11:12.000 Like, what's the opposite of tyranny?

00:11:14.000 It's not freedom, by the way.

00:11:16.000 It's certainly not anarchic freedom.

00:11:17.000 It's not hedonistic freedom.

00:11:19.000 Benevolence? I think it's play.

00:11:21.000 Play. I think it's play.

00:11:22.000 Right. Yeah.

00:11:23.000 That makes sense.

00:11:24.000 Well, the developmental psychologist Jean Piaget, one of the things he pointed out was that...

00:11:33.000 So let's say play is the foundation of micro-community, right?

00:11:36.000 When you're a little kid, you play a game with another kid.

00:11:40.000 And then if that works well, you inhabit a little dyadic community. 0.99

00:11:45.000 You're both in it together.

00:11:46.000 And then if it really works, you replicate that across time and that gives you a friend.

00:11:50.000 But play is very interesting psychologically and psychobiologically because it has to be entered in voluntarily.

00:12:00.000 You can't force someone to play.

00:12:02.000 And it's also motivationally fragile.

00:12:07.000 So mammals have a play circuit and it can be disrupted by pretty much any other motivational or emotional circuit.

00:12:14.000 So the circumstances have to be set up properly.

00:12:16.000 Like the walled garden, you know that idea?

00:12:19.000 The walled garden is a place that play can take place, like eternally, so to speak.

00:12:24.000 And because it has to be undertaken voluntarily, it's the opposite of tyranny.

00:12:31.000 My wife and I have really started to apply this in our marriage more consciously.

00:12:36.000 You know, once I'd figured out this relationship, because I've been lecturing to people for a long time about how to conduct themselves in life so they don't become a tyrant or a handmaiden to the tyrants, right?

00:12:49.000 A silent handmaiden to the tyrants, let's say.

00:12:51.000 And aiming at play.

00:12:54.000 You know, when we walked in here today, one of the things we said was, let's have some fun.

00:12:58.000 And I've been thinking this morning, too, about what attitude I should take coming in to talk to you.

00:13:05.000 And there isn't a better attitude than play.

00:13:11.000 And I think it is because it's the antithesis of tyranny in particular.

00:13:18.000 And then you were talking more about mature play.

00:13:21.000 And that's that good...

00:13:22.000 You know, that also makes sense.

00:13:24.000 This is the issue with the idea that adulthood isn't any fun.

00:13:29.000 It's like, well, do you want to play a simple game?

00:13:33.000 Or do you want to play a really sophisticated game really well?

00:13:37.000 Now, that's going to require some discipline and some training and some maturation, but the payoff is much higher.

00:13:43.000 That's a good way to conceptualize marriage.

00:13:45.000 The highs are higher when you're successful.

00:13:49.000 The people who have the most sex now are religious married couples.

00:13:53.000 Really? I know, isn't that funny?

00:13:55.000 Which religion?

00:13:56.000 Yeah, good question, Joe.

00:13:59.000 Good question.

00:14:00.000 Well, I guess in the West that would obviously be Christianity. 0.85

00:14:02.000 But it's an interesting case example of the sorts of things we're talking about because you can imagine at the dawn of the sexual revolution when the birth control pill became prevalent that the last hypothesis anyone would have possibly generated was that The cascading consequences of that over 50 years would be,

00:14:23.000 well, radical increase in pornography use because sex has been made less dangerous by the pill and that the people who are having the most sex would be religious married couples.

00:14:32.000 Right, but is that true?

00:14:32.000 Because, like, pornography essentially was very difficult to acquire before the birth control pill was invented.

00:14:39.000 True, true.

00:14:39.000 You used to have to go somewhere to get the pornography.

00:14:42.000 Isn't part of the excess use of pornography just because the access is so instantaneous now?

00:14:47.000 Oh, definitely.

00:14:48.000 But you could imagine, too, that you might have hypothesized that if the birth control pill took the threat out of sex, that pornography would be less necessary.

00:14:56.000 But that didn't seem to work out.

00:14:59.000 Right. So, certainly, availability is...

00:15:02.000 We would never know, though, because the birth control was...

00:15:07.000 When was it?

00:15:08.000 1960-something?

00:15:10.000 Somewhere around then?

00:15:11.000 Yeah, when it started to ramp up, let's say.

00:15:15.000 It's so crazy because it completely changed the dynamic.

00:15:19.000 Women could have sex for recreation with people that they didn't even know and not have any consequences in terms of like having to carry that person's child. 1.00

00:15:29.000 Whereas that was always a giant fear.

00:15:31.000 If you're a woman in the back of your head, every time you have sex, you possibly could be taking care of a child for the next 18 plus years. 1.00

00:15:38.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:15:39.000 Every time.

00:15:40.000 Right, right.

00:15:41.000 Take this thing.

00:15:41.000 This is a consequential thing where it's with a guy.

00:15:44.000 It's like you have this biological imperative to spread your seed.

00:15:49.000 But you're not thinking about making babies, right?

00:15:52.000 You're thinking about sexual activity.

00:15:54.000 When a guy's having sex, he's not thinking, I can't wait to make a baby. 0.69

00:15:57.000 You're just thinking, boy, sex is going to be great.

00:16:00.000 I'm excited.

00:16:01.000 Oh, boy, that's fun.

00:16:02.000 You're not thinking, I'm making a kid.

00:16:04.000 Because that would...

00:16:06.000 Make you hesitant and nature is not interested in hesitation.

00:16:11.000 Nature is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:16:12.000 Let's just make you dumb as fuck for about 20 minutes and focus on one goal.

00:16:18.000 So why did you get married?

00:16:21.000 Well, I love my wife.

00:16:23.000 She wanted to get married.

00:16:24.000 We had a child.

00:16:25.000 It seemed like a good thing to do.

00:16:28.000 It's like at a certain point in time.

00:16:32.000 Making a baby is more of a commitment than getting married.

00:16:35.000 You made a life, you know?

00:16:37.000 Like the commitment of getting married seemed...

00:16:40.000 Right, right.

00:16:41.000 Of course.

00:16:42.000 But it's also...

00:16:44.000 But why did you stay committed then before the marriage once you had a child?

00:16:48.000 Now you said you loved your wife.

00:16:50.000 I love her.

00:16:50.000 It's a thing to do.

00:16:52.000 It's a...

00:16:53.000 Life in raising a child became everything.

00:16:57.000 It becomes a very different thing, right?

00:17:00.000 I think...

00:17:01.000 I have a lot of friends who don't have kids, and I'm not the type of person that thinks everyone should have a kid.

00:17:07.000 You know, I know a lot of people with kids, they do say that.

00:17:09.000 I don't think everyone should have a kid.

00:17:11.000 I think you should do whatever you want.

00:17:12.000 I don't know how your brain works.

00:17:13.000 I assume your brain works along similar lines with me, but there's a thing that happens when you do...

00:17:18.000 It's a scary thought, Joel.

00:17:20.000 Well, similar lines.

00:17:22.000 I think we all share similar lines.

00:17:26.000 There's an empathy that comes from having a child that's so different.

00:17:32.000 And an understanding that we are all babies that grew up.

00:17:37.000 We all start off as these bundles of potential and genetics.

00:17:41.000 And then we're influenced by so many different things.

00:17:44.000 There's so many different factors.

00:17:45.000 But I used to think of people as being grown up all the time.

00:17:49.000 And then when I had kids, I was like, oh, we're all just...

00:17:54.000 We're all just babies that have just been alive for a long time.

00:17:59.000 You know, everyone started out as a baby.

00:18:01.000 And it just profoundly changed the way I interact with people, the amount of compassion I have for people, the amount of charity that I have for people, the charitable way in which I think about them when they do something or they say something.

00:18:16.000 I give people the benefit of the doubt way more.

00:18:19.000 Dave Chappelle said this to me once at the Comedy Store.

00:18:22.000 And it was very profound.

00:18:23.000 He said, having children didn't just change the amount of love I have, it changed my capacity for love.

00:18:31.000 And I was like, ooh, that's it.

00:18:34.000 You just nailed it.

00:18:35.000 You just nailed it.

00:18:37.000 You know, because there's private moments when you talk to people about their children, about having children and what that's like.

00:18:45.000 It's a very psychedelic experience.

00:18:47.000 That would be another reason why the...

00:18:50.000 Family with children is the foundation of the community.

00:18:53.000 It has to be the foundation of the community.

00:18:55.000 It's kind of obvious from a biological perspective, let's say.

00:18:59.000 No children, no community.

00:19:00.000 But there's no reason to assume that you wouldn't get radically better at something with necessity and practice.

00:19:07.000 And if you're practicing loving your infant and your child, well, why wouldn't that generalize?

00:19:13.000 Sure. Why would that capacity develop?

00:19:15.000 It's not like a practice.

00:19:16.000 It's like an overwhelming desire that comes – like the love you have for your child is like – it's not like anything else.

00:19:26.000 It's very different.

00:19:28.000 My friend Jim Brewer said this once.

00:19:30.000 He said, when I had a child, that's when I really understood murder.

00:19:35.000 I really understood like my capacity to defend my child is like – I never understood, like, how could somebody kill somebody before?

00:19:44.000 He was like, oh, now I get it.

00:19:46.000 Now I get it.

00:19:47.000 And, you know, that's real too.

00:19:49.000 And that's also tribal, right?

00:19:51.000 So it's not just your child.

00:19:53.000 It's the child of everyone around you in your tribe.

00:19:56.000 And then you think that you're being invaded by an oncoming tribe.

00:20:01.000 And genetics and...

00:20:04.000 History dictates you have to be insanely ruthless to fight off that tribe.

00:20:09.000 There's no other way for survival, which is really wild, right?

00:20:14.000 Because those people have that same feeling towards their children.

00:20:18.000 It's like that sting line, if the Russians love their children too.

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00:21:41.000 So that love that you talk about with regard to your wife, you know, I asked you a little bit about that.

00:21:49.000 It's like, I've talked to people who have, they can't understand how someone could be with the same woman indefinitely, let's say.

00:22:00.000 These are people who usually haven't been able to establish that within their own life.

00:22:04.000 And of course, the price you pay, assuming it's a price, for going all others is that, well, that...

00:22:13.000 That's exactly it.

00:22:14.000 It's a major sacrifice.

00:22:16.000 And so, what do you think, what role do you think that love plays?

00:22:21.000 Like, how do you conceptualize the relationship between that love that you described and that willingness to stay in a permanent relationship and the willingness also to not pursue any other women?

00:22:35.000 How do you understand, how does that make itself manifest in your life?

00:22:41.000 I mean, I presume that you had opportunities of all sorts.

00:22:48.000 I presume you do as well.

00:22:51.000 In principle, I suppose.

00:22:52.000 They don't seem to come to me in a sense.

00:22:54.000 You're a hot professor-type character.

00:22:55.000 Back in the day, guys like you would be banging their grad students.

00:22:58.000 Not guys like you, but guys in your position, right?

00:23:01.000 Wasn't that always a thing?

00:23:02.000 This is a fascinating aspect of academia.

00:23:05.000 I seem to shut that off pretty much at the beginning.

00:23:07.000 Well, they seem to have completely stopped that.

00:23:12.000 Like if you go back to Feynman and Oppenheimer and famous, famous scientists were notoriously playboys, which is really interesting because it's like these wild, innovative people were essentially like intellectual rock stars,

00:23:28.000 right? And then...

00:23:30.000 Somehow or another, that just got stopped.

00:23:32.000 Like, if you were a professor in the 1960s, like, the girls would be wooing the professor. 1.00

00:23:39.000 They would be excited.

00:23:40.000 These 22-year-old graduate students would be so excited to be talking to this, like, incredibly famous intellectual.

00:23:48.000 And they all, you know, were ladies men.

00:23:52.000 Like, Feynman was, like, famous for chasing skirts. 1.00

00:23:55.000 That was, like, part of the thing.

00:23:56.000 He does a lot of math and chases skirts. 0.83

00:23:59.000 You know?

00:24:01.000 That is a giant distraction to people that are trying to get things done in life.

00:24:08.000 And it's also a distraction from your own personal development I think.

00:24:12.000 I think you could be with the wrong person and want to be with other people and that makes sense.

00:24:17.000 But really what that is is you should not be with that person anymore.

00:24:21.000 Which is unfortunately the case.

00:24:23.000 There's a lot of guys who wind up with really hot women who are out of their fucking mind and a lot of women who wind up with really hot men who are not what they thought they were going to be.

00:24:35.000 And if you find yourself in this situation where you're with this pathological person and you're trying to make it work and you realize at a certain point in time, I'm not going to make it work.

00:24:45.000 You have to be able to just jump ship.

00:24:49.000 That's why people are hesitant to get married. 0.88

00:24:51.000 That's what's really dangerous about marriage.

00:24:55.000 It's not like being with one person you really love being with.

00:24:58.000 I really love being with my wife.

00:25:00.000 She's fun. 0.93

00:25:01.000 We have date nights all the time.

00:25:03.000 We have a lot of fun.

00:25:05.000 We really do.

00:25:07.000 It's enjoyable.

00:25:08.000 But that's not always the case.

00:25:10.000 Why did you decide to set up date nights?

00:25:12.000 How did you go about that?

00:25:13.000 I mean, I know that's personal, and I don't want all the gory details, let's say.

00:25:16.000 No, it's really simple.

00:25:18.000 We just enjoy hanging out together.

00:25:19.000 We have a lot of laughs.

00:25:20.000 And so we just said, like, it's kind of important, because I'm so fucking busy, that we schedule time that's just unavoidable.

00:25:29.000 Like, this is what we're doing.

00:25:30.000 We're going to do this.

00:25:31.000 Yeah, I do that with Tammy, too. 0.98

00:25:32.000 We've done that for like...

00:25:34.000 30 years.

00:25:35.000 I think most married couples will tell you that that's important.

00:25:38.000 Most married couples will tell you that that's kind of the secret.

00:25:42.000 It's also the best thing as well as being the secret.

00:25:45.000 Yeah, it's fun.

00:25:46.000 It's fun.

00:25:47.000 Like if the person that you're with is fun, that's the real problem is that sometimes people just, they pick people that are hot.

00:25:54.000 That's it.

00:25:55.000 You know, hot and willing and nice enough.

00:25:58.000 Nice enough to be around.

00:26:00.000 Then you deal with all the other crazy nonsense.

00:26:02.000 You're setting yourself up.

00:26:04.000 I've had many friends ruin their fucking lives.

00:26:08.000 And then they go through divorces.

00:26:10.000 And you've said this best, that one of the things that women are very good at is reputation destruction. 1.00

00:26:16.000 I've seen that happen.

00:26:18.000 So imagine you are legally entangled with someone.

00:26:24.000 Who at one point in time you loved intimately and now that person is trying to destroy every aspect of your life.

00:26:32.000 And you have to pay for their lawyers.

00:26:35.000 So you have to pay for the general of the army that's trying to destroy your kingdom.

00:26:41.000 And I've seen this happen to many of my friends.

00:26:44.000 And that is why people are afraid of marriage. 0.93

00:26:47.000 That's why people are afraid of commitment.

00:26:49.000 Because the disastrous implications of like what can happen if it goes sideways?

00:26:54.000 Like what can happen if you wind up hating each other?

00:26:57.000 And what can happen if you just lie to yourself and you trick – like some of the hesitation that I had for getting married is most of my friends that got married when I was young all went through horrible divorces.

00:27:12.000 When I was on news radio, Dave Foley, Stephen Root and – Phil Hartman.

00:27:19.000 We're all going through it.

00:27:21.000 All going through it.

00:27:22.000 In different levels of psychosis.

00:27:25.000 Obviously, Phil Hartman's being the worst because his wife shot him.

00:27:28.000 When he was leaving her, by the way.

00:27:30.000 He decided to leave her, and he tried to leave her a few times.

00:27:33.000 And she shot him in his sleep, and then she shot herself. 0.99

00:27:36.000 It's a horrible, horrible story.

00:27:38.000 But Steven Root went through it, and they, you know, they'd confide in me.

00:27:42.000 I'd be like, oh, Jesus Christ.

00:27:45.000 The amount of money these women were trying to get from them when they knew that they couldn't afford this. 1.00

00:27:49.000 So what are the dirty tricks that will happen with divorce lawyers, with people that are on sitcoms?

00:27:58.000 Is when you get on a sitcom, if you're an actor and you get on a sitcom, it is the most stable job, the greatest job in show business for a lot of them.

00:28:09.000 Because you're going to get a steady check.

00:28:11.000 You're going to do 24, maybe 26 episodes a year.

00:28:15.000 You're making more money than you've ever made in your whole life.

00:28:19.000 But then you get divorced.

00:28:21.000 So what happens is it gets set up where your ex-wife wants a percentage of what you're making at this very unrealistic level, where you're never going to achieve this again.

00:28:35.000 And for Dave Foley, it was so bad that at one point in time, I don't believe he was allowed to go back to Canada.

00:28:40.000 I don't know if that's changed, but the judge literally told him, when he told the judge, Don't have that kind of money anymore.

00:28:47.000 I don't have the potential for earning.

00:28:49.000 I was on a hit sitcom.

00:28:50.000 Not even a hit sitcom, but I was on a sitcom on NBC.

00:28:54.000 Paid a lot of money, and that was the only time I made that kind of money.

00:28:56.000 The judge said to him, your obligation to pay has no relation to your ability to pay.

00:29:04.000 That's Canadian judges for you.

00:29:08.000 Those are words you never want to hear, even once in your life.

00:29:12.000 I love him.

00:29:13.000 So I was going through this...

00:29:15.000 Pain, not like he was, but just like, oh my god.

00:29:19.000 Oh my god.

00:29:20.000 So these three people that I was very close to.

00:29:22.000 And then most of the other people that I knew, you know, I knew so many people.

00:29:28.000 Fortunately, my mother and my stepfather have a great relationship, and they have for a long time.

00:29:32.000 So I had that modeled.

00:29:34.000 Like, they were always very close.

00:29:35.000 And they didn't fight, which is really nice.

00:29:38.000 It was really nice to have that as a model.

00:29:41.000 You know, like where I realized, okay, everybody's not at each other's throats all the time.

00:29:46.000 And some people actually do enjoy spending time together.

00:29:49.000 You know, Tammy and I on the tour, she started to introduce me two years ago and to talk about some of the things we're doing in the family, some of our family business, talk about Peterson Academy,

00:30:05.000 talk about SA.

00:30:06.000 And so she'd go out on the stage.

00:30:08.000 Was that the first time she had ever...

00:30:11.000 You do enormous crowds.

00:30:13.000 Yeah, well, so first of all, she did that, and then we replaced the business discussion, because we were just doing an update about the family, you know, and so she'd do that.

00:30:22.000 We replaced that with ads, and then she started to talk.

00:30:26.000 She talked about the rules, say, in 12 Rules for Life, or some of the religious things I've been dealing with lately, and she'd relate that to something in her own life.

00:30:36.000 And then she does the Q&A at the end of the lecture.

00:30:40.000 Part of that was just she was along with me and part of that was Michaela was introducing me for a while and then had to go back to her work.

00:30:46.000 And so we slotted Tammy in because it seemed like a good business decision.

00:30:50.000 But one of the things we figured out very quickly that was really a shock to us was that people really liked, especially the Q&As, because what people will offer their questions electronically on this platform called Slido,

00:31:06.000 which is a very good platform for such things.

00:31:09.000 Then Tammy would, they could upvote the questions and then Tammy would sort them and ask me questions kind of from the top down that were thematically relevant to the lecture that I had given.

00:31:20.000 But we found very quickly that people really liked that because they hadn't seen a couple engage in civilized discussion ever.

00:31:31.000 Seriously. Yeah, there's a lot of that out there.

00:31:33.000 It was really shocking, Joe.

00:31:34.000 Like, you know, I was shocked when I first started touring.

00:31:38.000 By how demoralized people were.

00:31:41.000 Like, that was really striking and painful to see that on such a mass scale.

00:31:46.000 And then also to see how little encouragement it took to have a really major effect.

00:31:52.000 I mean, there's a positive aspect to that too, but there's also a tragic aspect.

00:31:55.000 It's like, you mean you just need to have some encouragement?

00:31:59.000 And that was enough?

00:32:01.000 And you never got that?

00:32:02.000 Like, even once?

00:32:03.000 That's rough when you see that in thousands of people.

00:32:07.000 It was the same thing.

00:32:08.000 We found it was the same thing with regards to seeing a functional couple, at least even that model.

00:32:14.000 Because, you know, Tammy asked me questions, and she thinks about the questions, and then sometimes she comments, but not that much.

00:32:22.000 But she actually listens to the answers, and she wants to hear the answer.

00:32:27.000 And so, and that dynamic is being played out on stage, and people found that very heartening.

00:32:32.000 And all that shows you, well, you said, you know, yourself, and this is why I brought it up, because you had the example from your stepfather and your mom of this long-term relationship that worked.

00:32:43.000 I mean, how the hell do you orient yourself if you haven't seen that anywhere?

00:32:47.000 Right, and then you consider relationships just like all the bad ones, and like you're going to be burdened and locked into that.

00:32:55.000 Did you ever see that video where Alec Baldwin and his wife are on the red carpet and they're being interviewed and they're asking them questions and the wife starts talking and Alec chimes in about something and she said,

00:33:12.000 "You're not talking.

00:33:13.000 I'm talking.

00:33:14.000 When I'm talking, you're not talking.

00:33:15.000 On camera." And you watch this, you're like, yo!

00:33:20.000 That's what everyone's scared of.

00:33:22.000 Right. Definitely.

00:33:23.000 That competition.

00:33:25.000 Tyranny. The tyranny of being trapped in a relationship like that is like, ugh.

00:33:31.000 And sometimes one person is so overbearing that the other person just sort of submits to it, right?

00:33:36.000 And then you're just like, I don't even want to.

00:33:38.000 I don't want to fight.

00:33:39.000 I don't want to deal with this.

00:33:40.000 And so then you're just trapped, and this person's insulting you.

00:33:45.000 Humiliating you publicly.

00:33:47.000 That was the case with Phil Hartman.

00:33:49.000 I got to see that.

00:33:50.000 We went to a party once and I remember she was talking about ex-boyfriends and she loves pickup trucks because her ex-boyfriends had pickup trucks and they would climb into the back of these pickup trucks and I was like,"What the fuck?" But she was doing it on purpose to make him squirm and make him uncomfortable.

00:34:10.000 And she would say things like talk about how he's old.

00:34:13.000 Oh, he's old.

00:34:13.000 He doesn't like to do anything.

00:34:15.000 It was just public humiliation in front of friends where you're in this arena where he can't say anything.

00:34:24.000 He can't just go, what the fuck are you talking about?

00:34:26.000 Why are you talking to me like that?

00:34:27.000 Like, why are we doing this?

00:34:29.000 He can't do that.

00:34:30.000 Because he's public and he's out with us.

00:34:32.000 Maybe he should do it anyways.

00:34:33.000 Probably should do it anyways.

00:34:34.000 Yeah, probably.

00:34:35.000 But we're all out.

00:34:36.000 And, you know, Phil was all about, like, appearances.

00:34:39.000 Right, right, right.

00:34:40.000 One of the things that he was afraid of with getting married was that he was just starting to break into films.

00:34:44.000 And a lot of the films that he was doing were very, like, family-friendly films.

00:34:49.000 And it helped that he was a family man.

00:34:53.000 Right, so he had an act he had to sustain, too.

00:34:56.000 He had an image, right?

00:34:57.000 And this was critical in Hollywood.

00:35:00.000 Like, they had ideas of who you were.

00:35:03.000 Okay, you're a family man.

00:35:04.000 Okay, good, good, good.

00:35:06.000 So if you have this radical change in your life where no longer you're a family man, and if you want to be honest about it and you want to say, I was in a toxic relationship and some of it was me and some of it was her and this is what happened, like, whoa, now you're opening up the world to this big can of worms.

00:35:20.000 Better to keep that can.

00:35:22.000 Yeah, well, it's generally better not to have your fights in public, and it's certainly better.

00:35:29.000 You know, I've been thinking about this commandment to honour your mother and father, and I've been thinking about what that means.

00:35:37.000 I read this book called Angelus Ashes by Frank McCourt, and Frank had a really alcoholic father.

00:35:45.000 Like an Irish alcoholic father back in the 40s. 0.61

00:35:48.000 Oh yeah.

00:35:49.000 He drank every cent the family had and they lived in terrible poverty.

00:35:53.000 And his sister died and like it was rough.

00:35:56.000 But he said his father was often sober in the morning and he established a relationship with like good morning sober father and kind of put alcoholic drunken nighttime father in a different bin and he could get the...

00:36:13.000 Benefit of having a father in consequence of that.

00:36:16.000 And that honoring, that's also something that you want to do within a marriage, right?

00:36:21.000 Because your wife is your friend and your lover, but she's also your wife.

00:36:26.000 And you're her husband, and that means that a part of keeping that marriage working is honor.

00:36:33.000 And part of the honor is that you don't do that sort of thing in public.

00:36:36.000 Right. You don't humiliate each other.

00:36:39.000 You don't fight in public.

00:36:40.000 Well, that's also in some ways independent.

00:36:42.000 In a way, it's independent of who your wife or husband is.

00:36:45.000 It's like, you know, you can imagine two people fighting in public and one of them or both of them really deserving to have that fight as people.

00:36:54.000 But then to keep the marriage intact, you have to remember, well, this is my wife.

00:37:01.000 She's not just my friend.

00:37:02.000 She's not just someone I know.

00:37:03.000 She's my wife.

00:37:05.000 And we shouldn't be...

00:37:06.000 Doing primate dominance hierarchy maneuvering in public.

00:37:09.000 We shouldn't be competing for power because that's going to destroy the marriage. 1.00

00:37:13.000 Yeah. So that's part of that honoring, I think, is to remember the role and to keep it, well, sacred is right, sacrosanct.

00:37:24.000 Here's another one.

00:37:25.000 Don't ever insult each other, even though you want to.

00:37:28.000 Like, you want to, like, be mean sometimes.

00:37:30.000 Like, people get mean to you.

00:37:32.000 You want to be mean back.

00:37:33.000 I don't...

00:37:34.000 I do that with my friends, so I don't do that with anyone else.

00:37:39.000 I don't want to do that.

00:37:41.000 That's why I don't do it online.

00:37:42.000 I don't get involved in these, like, hissy-pissy fits online, particularly on Twitter.

00:37:48.000 I just don't think...

00:37:49.000 The prime place for such things.

00:37:51.000 That's all it is.

00:37:52.000 First of all, again, as someone who looks at everyone like a child or like a baby, I don't...

00:37:59.000 I'm not angry that people do that.

00:38:02.000 I understand the appeal of it.

00:38:04.000 If I was 15 and Twitter was around, I would be tweeting at every fucking celebrity saying you're a loser, jump in front of a bus.

00:38:11.000 I would say things just to try to get a reaction out of them.

00:38:15.000 I think a lot of kids do.

00:38:17.000 I think a lot of people don't feel like they have a voice and one way to be heard is to be insulting and one way to hurt is to be negative.

00:38:25.000 If you look at the majority of discourse on social media...

00:38:31.000 In regards to hot button issues, it's disrespectful.

00:38:35.000 It's contentious.

00:38:36.000 It's shitty and insulting.

00:38:39.000 And I've decided, like, over time in my life to not do that.

00:38:44.000 I don't want to do that.

00:38:46.000 I'm not interested.

00:38:47.000 I'm not interested in that.

00:38:48.000 I'm not interested in that kind of conflict.

00:38:50.000 Like, I see real conflict all the time as an MMA commentator.

00:38:58.000 You know, I see the most violent legal conflict other than war all the time.

00:39:05.000 That's conflict.

00:39:06.000 That's, like, real conflict and resolution and, you know, purposeful, agreed-upon conflict.

00:39:15.000 Like, regular, like, back-and-forth insult.

00:39:18.000 Wouldn't it be better to figure out what you agree and disagree on and why and talk?

00:39:23.000 Like, why can't we all figure out how to do that?

00:39:26.000 That should be a discipline you learn at an early age.

00:39:29.000 Most of the issues that people have, if the person comes at you insulting and aggressive, either that person is ignorant or they're playing a game, okay?

00:39:39.000 And the game is to get your emotions up.

00:39:43.000 To get you reactive and to be reacting to them instead of acting.

00:39:48.000 The game is like if someone's hyper-aggressive in a fight.

00:39:51.000 The game is to put you on the defensive.

00:39:53.000 The best defense is a good offense.

00:39:56.000 You learn that early on in fighting.

00:39:58.000 So you learn that you can be very offensive and then the person never has a chance to get their game going.

00:40:05.000 That's the case with conversations too.

00:40:08.000 There's a gamesmanship.

00:40:10.000 To this kind of communication, where it's not just communicating.

00:40:15.000 It's communicating, but it's essentially intellectual one-upsmanship and sparring.

00:40:20.000 You're sparring.

00:40:21.000 You're scoring points.

00:40:22.000 You're trying to dunk on each other.

00:40:25.000 And I get that.

00:40:26.000 I've done that before.

00:40:27.000 I've engaged in it.

00:40:28.000 It's never satisfying.

00:40:30.000 It always feels gross.

00:40:31.000 Even if you win, it's gross.

00:40:34.000 Like I said this before, even publicly things that I felt like I had to do...

00:40:40.000 Like the Carlos Mencia conflict that I had way back in 2007 where I accused him of stealing material and it became this viral video and then a bunch of other comedians jumped in and we all agreed there was a real problem.

00:40:52.000 It was a real problem because he was very famous and he was being protected by these agencies who were profiting off of him being famous.

00:40:58.000 They didn't want that train to stop.

00:41:01.000 I still, to this day...

00:41:04.000 I wonder if I would ever do that again.

00:41:06.000 Because the negativity that came my way from people that were fans of his, it's so overwhelming if you're paying attention to it.

00:41:13.000 It's like, what did I open up?

00:41:15.000 Even though I knew it was necessary.

00:41:17.000 And that is also why people are negative.

00:41:20.000 Because they want to stop you from engaging in conflict that's going to hurt them.

00:41:26.000 So they try to hurt you as much as possible.

00:41:28.000 So you're hesitant to do it.

00:41:29.000 I don't want to wade into those waters.

00:41:31.000 It's dangerous.

00:41:32.000 Filled with sharks.

00:41:33.000 Well, you could imagine, maybe, and I think this is worth delving into in some depth, you could imagine that there are various ways of attaining status, renown, reputation.

00:41:49.000 Status isn't exactly the right word because reputation is better, because you can have a reputation that you deserve, right?

00:41:57.000 And so people do work for reputation.

00:42:01.000 All things considered, that's a good thing.

00:42:03.000 Earned reputation is the best.

00:42:05.000 Earned reputation.

00:42:06.000 Or someone's truly unique.

00:42:08.000 Jordan, that guy, that's a unique human being.

00:42:11.000 And that's a real reputation.

00:42:12.000 Right, right.

00:42:13.000 That's what people want.

00:42:14.000 Right, right.

00:42:15.000 And it's also, there isn't anything more valuable that you can have than that.

00:42:20.000 Not even close.

00:42:21.000 This is why, by the way, this is very cool.

00:42:24.000 It's a bit of an aside, but it's worth bringing up.

00:42:27.000 In the Gospels, Christ tells people to store up Treasure in heaven where it doesn't rust, where the thieves can't steal it, that's reputational treasure.

00:42:37.000 So the idea is that if you conduct yourself impeccably, you'll develop a storehouse of reputation that will withstand all catastrophe.

00:42:49.000 There's no place you can put your wealth that's more effective than that.

00:42:53.000 It's the least...

00:42:56.000 Violatable place.

00:42:57.000 And that's right.

00:42:58.000 It's right.

00:42:59.000 But the problem is, and this is a really tricky problem, and you're touching on it, is that the reputation game can be gamed.

00:43:07.000 So when your reputation rises, your serotonin levels rise.

00:43:12.000 And that makes you less sensitive to negative emotion and more sensitive to positive emotion.

00:43:17.000 So that's a really good deal.

00:43:19.000 And what that also means is that there's a high psychological benefit to...

00:43:25.000 Status increase, reputational increase, and a real cost to reputational decrease.

00:43:30.000 That's partly why people don't like losing face, for example, because their emotions dysregulate.

00:43:37.000 Okay, so now the best way to play that game is to establish a genuine reputation.

00:43:42.000 And the best way to do that, you've done this, by the way, I figured out this year in my lectures that I'm always trying to answer a question on stage.

00:43:50.000 So that's a quest.

00:43:52.000 And I'm bringing the audience along on a quest.

00:43:54.000 And it's a real quest because I'm actually trying to figure something out.

00:43:57.000 And I do that in real time.

00:43:58.000 And that's a very different game.

00:44:01.000 That's a very different conversational game than the status battle game.

00:44:06.000 Because I could come on here.

00:44:08.000 I don't know if it would work.

00:44:10.000 But I could come on here and I could try to show that I was smarter than Joe Rogan.

00:44:14.000 Now, I've watched you, and that's a very difficult thing to pull off.

00:44:17.000 But hypothetically, that could be my aim, and I could play gotcha questions, and I could lead you into places...

00:44:22.000 The problem is that wouldn't work because I'm willing to accept that you're smarter than me.

00:44:27.000 First of all, I talk to a lot of people that are smarter than me, and I like it.

00:44:32.000 I don't ever feel uncomfortable talking to people that are smarter than me.

00:44:32.000 It's enjoyable.

00:44:37.000 I want to know...

00:44:39.000 Some things that they can tell me on certain things.

00:44:41.000 I want to educate myself.

00:44:42.000 I want to see how their mind works.

00:44:45.000 I want to be blown away.

00:44:46.000 I don't want to compete with them intellectually.

00:44:50.000 There's times in my life where I would have fallen into that trap.

00:44:53.000 Well, I think that's also what's made you popular and a force for good, is that you are on a quest.

00:45:03.000 And that quest, the consequence of that quest, if undertaken properly...

00:45:07.000 Is reputational enhancement.

00:45:09.000 And people who can't or won't do that, they default to power games.

00:45:14.000 And that's the default to power.

00:45:18.000 But it's worsened with social media.

00:45:21.000 Absolutely. Because if you meet someone and they're playing a power game with you, you can just decide not to have anything to do with them anymore.

00:45:30.000 Or you can put a stop to it if you need to.

00:45:32.000 But on social media...

00:45:34.000 You can't because they're distant from you and they're often also anonymous.

00:45:38.000 And so they can play power games to enhance their reputational status falsely with no consequences.

00:45:44.000 And the social media is rife with that.

00:45:46.000 And it's really a problem.

00:45:48.000 I think that virtualization has enabled the psychopaths.

00:45:52.000 Without a doubt.

00:45:53.000 Yeah, well...

00:45:55.000 That's a terrible thing because...

00:45:55.000 Without a doubt.

00:45:57.000 The psychopathic types, they're always the death of everything.

00:46:00.000 I'm seeing this come up on the right now.

00:46:03.000 So imagine this.

00:46:04.000 I've been working on a new theory of political psychopathology, and I like it quite a lot.

00:46:10.000 Is this where the term"the woke right" comes in?

00:46:12.000 Yeah. Well, Lindsay is pointing at that, but he hasn't got the diagnosis exactly right.

00:46:18.000 So it isn't woke.

00:46:20.000 That's not the issue.

00:46:21.000 Not exactly.

00:46:22.000 He's one level.

00:46:23.000 I think what they're talking about is like similar types of behavior.

00:46:25.000 He is talking about that.

00:46:26.000 Yeah, I know.

00:46:28.000 Woke just lets you clarify in your head.

00:46:30.000 Oh, it's like that.

00:46:31.000 Yeah, but the problem is...

00:46:33.000 It's like Antifa.

00:46:34.000 Absolutely. But the problem is that that argument is predicated on the claim that the ideas are the problem, like the woke ideas.

00:46:44.000 For example, on the right or the left.

00:46:46.000 But that's not the problem.

00:46:47.000 The problem is that...

00:46:49.000 Four to five percent of the population, something like that, is cluster B, that's the DSM-5 terms, histrionic, narcissistic, antisocial, psychopathic, and they have dark tetrad traits,

00:47:05.000 they're Machiavellian, they're sadistic.

00:47:07.000 That's about four percent.

00:47:09.000 Okay, so the question is, how do these people maneuver?

00:47:12.000 And the answer is, they go to where the power is.

00:47:15.000 And they adopt those ideas, and they put themselves even on the forefront of that.

00:47:19.000 But the ideas are completely irrelevant.

00:47:21.000 All they're doing is, they're the Pharisees.

00:47:24.000 They're the modern version of the Pharisees. 0.95

00:47:25.000 They're the people who use God's name in vain, right?

00:47:28.000 As they proclaim moral virtue, doesn't matter whether it's right or left or Christian or Jewish or Islam, they invade the idea space, and then they use that, those ideas as... 0.79

00:47:41.000 False weapons to advance their narcissistic advantage.

00:47:44.000 And so then you have the problem, and the right's going to face this more and more particularly, because the left had to face it when they were in powers.

00:47:52.000 How do you identify the psychopathic parasites, 4% of the population, who are clothed in your clothing and waving your flags, but who are only in it for narcissistic benefit?

00:48:08.000 Studied the dark triad.

00:48:10.000 These were people who originally studied psychopaths, and they moved into ordinary personality, so to speak, on the fringes.

00:48:17.000 It showed that the non-criminal psychopaths, so the fringe cases, are Machiavellian.

00:48:23.000 They use their language to manipulate. 0.90

00:48:25.000 They're narcissistic.

00:48:26.000 They want unearned...

00:48:29.000 Reputation, that's what a narcissist wants. 0.90

00:48:31.000 And they're psychopathic, which makes them predators or parasites.

00:48:34.000 Okay, that's pretty bad, those three things.

00:48:37.000 But they had to expand the nomenclature after a while because they found that they were also sadistic, which implied that if you're Machiavellian and narcissistic and psychopathic, you develop a sufficiently bad view of your fellow man that their undeserved pain is a source of pleasure to you.

00:48:57.000 And that's what's being enabled online.

00:49:00.000 See, because we've evolved real specific mechanisms to keep such things under control in face-to-face interaction.

00:49:07.000 Lack of anonymity, for example, within a community.

00:49:10.000 Psychopaths in the real world, they wander.

00:49:13.000 They have to move from place to place because people can figure out who they are.

00:49:16.000 And they're held responsible.

00:49:18.000 They're particularly held responsible by men.

00:49:21.000 But online, they escape from that.

00:49:24.000 They escape from that protective.

00:49:26.000 They escape from that system of constraints, and they have free reign, and they can find other people like them very rapidly, and they can gang together.

00:49:35.000 And so this is like, I can really see this starting to happen on the right.

00:49:39.000 Like, I've been tracking psychopathic behavior on the right for probably four years, something like that, especially on the anti-Semitic side, because that's really where it reared its head first.

00:49:51.000 Why is that?

00:49:53.000 There's nothing more annoying than a successful minority. 1.00

00:49:57.000 Right? Now, that's part of it.

00:49:59.000 Here, I might as well get myself in trouble right away, too.

00:50:03.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:50:04.000 This is a real subject.

00:50:06.000 Yeah, it's a real terrible subject.

00:50:08.000 It's interesting, because if you don't criticize it enough, you're compromised.

00:50:12.000 If you criticize...

00:50:14.000 You know, it's like...

00:50:15.000 When it comes to anti-Semitism, like it's one of those things where you can't separate.

00:50:28.000 It's a religion, and it's also a race, and it's also a government.

00:50:34.000 That's where things get weird.

00:50:35.000 Right, right.

00:50:36.000 And then there's also the concept of intelligence agencies and compromise that also gets attached to it, the manipulation of world markets and money, and there's a lot to unpack.

00:50:46.000 And then there's regular...

00:50:47.000 Jewish people have nothing to do with that.

00:50:49.000 Well, the Jews, too, they're very successful.

00:50:52.000 And so what you would expect from a purely statistical point of view is you'd expect them to be overrepresented at the extremes.

00:50:59.000 They're also a walled garden, right?

00:51:01.000 Meaning? Meaning it's very difficult to join.

00:51:04.000 They don't...

00:51:06.000 They don't proselytize.

00:51:07.000 They don't try to get you to join.

00:51:08.000 And they're all very tightly knit.

00:51:10.000 They call themselves the Klan.

00:51:11.000 They're all, like, locked in.

00:51:13.000 You know, Jewish Klan. 0.91

00:51:14.000 Not KKK.

00:51:15.000 The problem with that term has been compromised by the Ku Klux Klan.

00:51:19.000 You know, but I mean it in terms of tribe.

00:51:21.000 Or community.

00:51:22.000 Yeah, community.

00:51:23.000 They're very tight-knit in that regard.

00:51:26.000 You know, they stick together.

00:51:27.000 And if you understand the history, obviously, of Nazi Germany and of persecution in Eastern Europe, like, yeah, you have to.

00:51:34.000 Yeah, of course.

00:51:35.000 Yeah, well, all these complex things are multidimensional.

00:51:39.000 I mean, I watched your whole conversation with Douglas, and I thought you guys did a very credible job, all three of you, of navigating unbelievably choppy waters.

00:51:52.000 So that's the first thing I'd like to say, because one of the things I was trying to figure out when I was watching that is, do I think I could have done a better job than any of you?

00:52:00.000 And I certainly didn't walk away from it with that.

00:52:04.000 But then underneath all that, I thought there's a really unbelievably tricky problem here.

00:52:09.000 And I think that's why it's made it poked up into...

00:52:13.000 Well, you also set that conversation up, but it poked up and made itself manifest in that conversation.

00:52:19.000 And the issue is, how do you identify...

00:52:23.000 The psychopathic pretenders, and it's even worse now, and then make a barrier, right?

00:52:29.000 Now the right was calling for the left to do that for decades, and they didn't, and they couldn't, and the left is not good at drawing barriers, partly temperamentally.

00:52:37.000 The right is somewhat better, but there's no shortage of monstrosity there.

00:52:41.000 And so then the question is, how do you draw the line?

00:52:48.000 And that's kind of what I was...

00:52:50.000 Because I've been watching these right-wing...

00:52:52.000 They're not right-wing.

00:52:53.000 These psychopathic types manipulate the edge of the conservative movement for their own gain.

00:53:00.000 And a lot of that's cloaked in anti-Semitic guise.

00:53:03.000 There's plenty of anti-Semitism on the left, too, by the way.

00:53:05.000 So it's not unique to the right.

00:53:07.000 Well, particularly now.

00:53:08.000 Yes, particularly now.

00:53:10.000 And so, you know, you've let your curiosity guide you.

00:53:14.000 Your curiosity and your desire for knowledge, this quest, you've...

00:53:19.000 You've let that guide you as a podcaster.

00:53:21.000 And by the way, I'm trying to work through exactly the same sort of thing.

00:53:25.000 How do you know, given your radical increase in stature over the last 10 years, how do you know when your curiosity and even your skepticism about the fact that things aren't the way that people say they are, because that's certainly been demonstrated in the last 10 years.

00:53:43.000 How do you...

00:53:44.000 How should anyone decide...

00:53:48.000 What guardrails to put up?

00:53:50.000 Like, what do you look for?

00:53:52.000 Do you have a conceptual system worked out for that?

00:53:56.000 What do you mean?

00:53:58.000 In what way?

00:54:00.000 Well... How do I look for in terms of people to talk to?

00:54:03.000 Because you have this insanely immense platform.

00:54:03.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:07.000 And you're inviting people onto it.

00:54:09.000 And, you know, you said to Douglas, and I know this to be true, that...

00:54:12.000 You're not really thinking about the outcome exactly.

00:54:15.000 You're thinking about this is an interesting person to talk to and I'd like to go on that quest.

00:54:20.000 But then you have the additional conundrum.

00:54:22.000 We're trying to work this out in the Daily Wire side of things too, not to say that that's exactly the same situation.

00:54:27.000 It's like once you gain in reach and authority, then how do you know that How do you take great care that the people you're talking to aren't,

00:54:47.000 what would you say, eliciting or feeding a subculture, yeah, that's right, that hasn't got the proper aims?

00:54:58.000 I guess the legacy media probably worked that out by having people, mediators, right, and guests, and that was also back when we could rely on the structures of authority in some sense to...

00:55:14.000 Filter. And now we're in this helter-skelter world where everything is up for grabs.

00:55:17.000 The legacy media is the worst at that now.

00:55:19.000 Yeah, I know.

00:55:20.000 They're the worst at that.

00:55:21.000 Which is fascinating.

00:55:21.000 I know.

00:55:22.000 You know, it really is.

00:55:23.000 It's really fascinating when you lose faith in a New York Times piece.

00:55:30.000 You know, it's like you go, like, well, this is bullshit.

00:55:33.000 Yeah. I know what they're doing.

00:55:35.000 I know this is editorial bullshit.

00:55:38.000 And that didn't used to be the case, I don't think.

00:55:41.000 No, it didn't.

00:55:42.000 But then I go back to, like, what I learned about the Woodward-Bernstein-Nixon thing at Watergate that was all essentially an intelligence operation.

00:55:52.000 Have you ever looked into that?

00:55:53.000 I did Bill Murray on the podcast, and Bill Murray said one of the wildest things.

00:55:57.000 He read the first five pages of Bob Woodward's biography on John Belushi, Wired.

00:56:03.000 He read the first five pages, like, he goes, oh my god, they framed Nixon.

00:56:08.000 Oh, really?

00:56:09.000 Wow. Isn't that crazy?

00:56:10.000 Yeah, no kidding.

00:56:12.000 What they wrote about my friend was so not true.

00:56:14.000 It was so wildly off.

00:56:16.000 He said John Belushi was a lightweight.

00:56:18.000 John Belushi would have a couple of drinks and he'd be fucked up.

00:56:21.000 He wasn't like a big partier.

00:56:22.000 That time he did that speedball is probably the only time he ever did it in his life.

00:56:26.000 But Woodward had him painted as this maniacal, off-the-rails, just drug-addled monster.

00:56:34.000 And he knew that to not be true.

00:56:36.000 He was very close to Belushi for a long time.

00:56:39.000 And so he was like, oh my god, they framed Nixon.

00:56:41.000 Then I told him the whole story, you know, what Tucker Carlson had told me about Woodward being an intelligence asset.

00:56:48.000 And then that was his first job ever as a journalist was Watergate.

00:56:51.000 And that there's FBI guys that were involved in it and the break in.

00:56:55.000 And the whole thing was tried.

00:56:57.000 They tried to get Nixon out of there, the most popular president in the history of the country in terms of the vote.

00:57:02.000 And they were successful.

00:57:04.000 They got him out of there.

00:57:05.000 And it's probably or likely because Nixon was very concerned with who killed Kennedy.

00:57:12.000 And he wanted to find out.

00:57:13.000 And he wanted to get that information out.

00:57:15.000 And apparently he had been talking about it.

00:57:16.000 I know who did it.

00:57:17.000 And he was, you know, he didn't want it happening to him, obviously.

00:57:21.000 And he knew it could.

00:57:23.000 If you're a president, you know, a couple of guys ago, you know, just one of the most popular presidents, at least posthumously.

00:57:33.000 popular presidents.

00:57:34.000 I know it was very polarizing while he was in office, but was shot in the head in the middle of Dallas.

00:57:38.000 And you think that the government might have had something to do with it.

00:57:41.000 Like that could, that could fuck with your head, obviously.

00:57:45.000 Yeah, well, and there's many things like that.

00:57:48.000 I mean, you saw the government website that came up two days ago about COVID?

00:57:53.000 Yes. Okay.

00:57:55.000 Wild. Wild to see that.

00:57:58.000 Yeah, that's for sure.

00:57:59.000 What are you supposed to do with that?

00:58:01.000 All the things that would have gotten you fired if you were a professor and you said them four years ago, you would have 100% got fired for espousing any of these ideas that turned out to be true.

00:58:13.000 You would have gotten kicked off of YouTube.

00:58:15.000 You would have gotten, you know, there was a lot.

00:58:19.000 There was a lot going on there, you know, which is I feel so fortunate that Right at the height of COVID was also when I had gone over to Spotify.

00:58:30.000 Spotify is a Swedish company.

00:58:32.000 It's different.

00:58:34.000 They're different.

00:58:35.000 They're much more rational, and they're not overwhelmed by this identity politics shit.

00:58:42.000 They aren't overwhelmed by our weird...

00:58:47.000 Political binary system of good guy, bad guy, depending on which side you're on.

00:58:52.000 And they were like, what are you talking about?

00:58:55.000 We don't censor our rappers.

00:58:57.000 The Swedes also didn't lock down.

00:58:59.000 Yes, they didn't lock down.

00:59:00.000 We don't censor our rappers.

00:59:03.000 The rap lyrics, some of my favorite rap lyrics are horrendous.

00:59:08.000 But it's just like my favorite movies are Tarantino movies.

00:59:12.000 The dialogue is horrendous.

00:59:13.000 It doesn't mean that these are horrendous people that are putting together this.

00:59:19.000 Tarantino's a wonderful guy.

00:59:20.000 He's fun to be around.

00:59:22.000 He's great.

00:59:22.000 I've had dinner with him, brought him to the comedy club.

00:59:24.000 He's great.

00:59:26.000 He's not a bad person, but he...

00:59:28.000 Is an artist, and he's creating this thing.

00:59:31.000 And this thing is going to show you aspects of humanity that you know to be true, but they're horrific.

00:59:38.000 That's the same with rap lyrics.

00:59:40.000 It's the same with a lot of things.

00:59:42.000 And Spotify's position was, we're not censoring.

00:59:45.000 We're in the business of promoting art.

00:59:48.000 We sell art, and we're not interested in censoring art, essentially.

00:59:54.000 And it turns out, luckily, we were all right.

00:59:57.000 We were all correct, and now the government shows it on their fucking website, which is crazy.

01:00:04.000 Have you seen it, Jamie?

01:00:06.000 Pull it up, because it's bananas.

01:00:09.000 Look at this.

01:00:10.000 Lab leak.

01:00:12.000 By the way, I know that he would bring up the vaccines when he was on his rallies, and people would boo when he was on the campaign trail.

01:00:26.000 People would boo.

01:00:27.000 And I think he was confused by that.

01:00:29.000 I think he's a little...

01:00:30.000 I don't want to say he's out of touch, but there's too many things for him to be thinking about, for him to be paying attention to what people really think about the vaccines and vaccine injuries and mandates and just the psychological...

01:00:43.000 Warfare that was played on the American people.

01:00:47.000 You remember that very famous White House post that they made?

01:00:50.000 For the vaccinated, you've done your job. 0.99

01:00:53.000 For the unvaccinated, you're looking forward to a winter of severe illness and death and the hospitals that you will overwhelm.

01:01:02.000 Like, that was the White House telling you something when it was in...

01:01:07.000 Omicron by that point, which was like a cold.

01:01:10.000 Like it was crazy.

01:01:11.000 The deaths had dropped off radically.

01:01:13.000 But they were so in bed with the pharmaceutical companies that they were like, you got to do it.

01:01:17.000 You got to get vaccinated.

01:01:19.000 And if you don't, you're looking forward to death and severe illness.

01:01:23.000 Like, imagine this is...

01:01:26.000 You're not basing this on real statistics.

01:01:29.000 You're not basing this on science.

01:01:31.000 You're just basing this on this control, this fear element that you're trying to impose upon people.

01:01:38.000 Okay, so that's an interesting point there, too, that issue of control and fear.

01:01:43.000 You know, I started this...

01:01:45.000 I was part of a group that started this organization in the UK called the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship.

01:01:52.000 We had our second convention in November, which went very nicely, by the way.

01:01:56.000 So you're doing like a positive counter to the World Economic Forum?

01:01:58.000 Yeah, well, we have some rules.

01:02:00.000 And one rule is you don't use force or fear, right?

01:02:04.000 Use invitation.

01:02:06.000 So can I tell you a story about that?

01:02:07.000 Please do.

01:02:08.000 Please do.

01:02:09.000 Okay, so...

01:02:11.000 I've been touring about this new book of mine, We Who Wrestle with God, and I've been lecturing about lots of the things I know, but I've been using biblical stories mostly to provide an analytical frame, because that's what stories do,

01:02:27.000 they provide a frame.

01:02:28.000 And there's a great story in the continuing Exodus story, the story of Moses and the Israelites, where Moses has led his people away from the tyrant.

01:02:41.000 And away from their own slavery because there's a dynamic in that story between those two things.

01:02:46.000 No tyrants without slaves.

01:02:48.000 Or you might say no tyrants without willing slaves.

01:02:51.000 And so the Israelites have to get away from the tyrant but then it's across the Red Sea of chaos and blood and into the desert for 40 years.

01:03:00.000 You don't escape from the tyrant if you're a slave without paying a price and maybe for three generations.

01:03:06.000 It's rough.

01:03:07.000 So Moses is trying to...

01:03:08.000 Get these people to stop being slaves and to take responsibility so they don't need a tyrant.

01:03:14.000 And so he's kind of got there and they're on the edge of the Promised Land, right?

01:03:18.000 And so they're almost at the end of their voyage and they run out of water.

01:03:24.000 They're still in the desert.

01:03:25.000 They run out of water and they get all whiny and bitchy about the fact that they had to go across the desert and that it was way better under the tyrant and that Moses is nothing but a corrupt patriarch and he's only power mad.

01:03:38.000 They foment some rebellion.

01:03:39.000 And anyways, it's a pretty ugly situation.

01:03:42.000 And the Israelites go to Moses and they say, look, we're really starving.

01:03:47.000 We're thirsting for water.

01:03:49.000 We're going to die.

01:03:49.000 Do you think you can have a chat with God?

01:03:51.000 See if he'll do something about this.

01:03:53.000 And God tells Moses to go to some rocks in the desert and to ask them to bring water forth.

01:04:01.000 And so he goes with his people to these rocks.

01:04:04.000 And instead of asking, he takes this staff of his.

01:04:07.000 The staff is a really important thing.

01:04:09.000 It's like your staff if you have an organization.

01:04:11.000 Same derivation.

01:04:12.000 But it's also the magic wand of Gandalf.

01:04:16.000 It's the flag you plant in new territory.

01:04:18.000 It's the tree of life.

01:04:19.000 It's the living tradition that has a spirit inside it, and that's a serpent.

01:04:26.000 And that's the serpent that eats all the serpents of the Egyptian tyrants, magic, magicians. 0.99

01:04:34.000 That's the staff.

01:04:35.000 It's his rod of his authority.

01:04:37.000 And he, instead of asking the rocks, he hits them twice with the staff.

01:04:43.000 So he forces them.

01:04:44.000 And God tells him that in consequence of that, number one, he's going to die.

01:04:50.000 And number two, he's not going to get to the promised land.

01:04:53.000 Right, right, right.

01:04:54.000 So there's this insistence.

01:04:56.000 It's really interesting.

01:04:57.000 Well, it's a crucial insistence.

01:04:58.000 And it's very important in this time, I think, to understand what this means.

01:05:03.000 Moses is a leader.

01:05:04.000 He's the archetypal leader.

01:05:06.000 And he realizes his responsibility in the encounter with the burning bush, which is something that attracts his attention, that he takes with great seriousness, and that transforms him.

01:05:16.000 And so then he becomes the leader who stands up against the tyrant and frees the slaves and takes them through chaos into the desert.

01:05:23.000 And his temptation as leader is to use force.

01:05:26.000 So when he's a young man, for example, he kills an Egyptian aristocrat who was...

01:05:31.000 Tormenting a Hebrew slave. 0.99

01:05:33.000 And that's why he has to leave Egypt.

01:05:34.000 He's tempted by power because he's a leader.

01:05:37.000 And then at the end, even though he's done all these things, he's been an upstanding man and gone beyond his call of duty.

01:05:45.000 And he's right at the point where he attains victory, right, to enter the Promised Land.

01:05:50.000 And he uses force once when God tells him to use invitation, to use his words, the logos, to use words, to use invitation.

01:05:59.000 And that's enough so that he's dead.

01:06:01.000 So is his brother Aaron.

01:06:02.000 That's his political arm.

01:06:04.000 And he doesn't enter the Promised Land.

01:06:06.000 And then in the Gospels, of course, Christ forgoes power altogether.

01:06:10.000 The temptation in the desert.

01:06:12.000 One of the three temptations is the temptation for use of power.

01:06:15.000 So one of the things that maybe we could conclude from all this, given the context of what you said, is that you can tell the tyrants, they use fear and compulsion.

01:06:25.000 And they don't use invitation.

01:06:27.000 So one of the rules we put together for ARC was invitation only.

01:06:31.000 Play? We're going to do this playfully?

01:06:34.000 Yeah. And we're not going to use force or fear, ever.

01:06:37.000 You have to use invitation.

01:06:39.000 And so I don't know what you think about that.

01:06:42.000 Imagine it's the distinguishing characteristic between the wannabe tyrants and the true leaders.

01:06:48.000 The true leaders say, here's an offer.

01:06:51.000 Would you accept this of your own free will?

01:06:54.000 And the tyrants say, the apocalypse is coming, and everything, and we are allowed to do everything to forestall it.

01:07:02.000 Right. Right, including control you, and everything that you do.

01:07:06.000 That's the problem.

01:07:07.000 Yeah. Right, and that's how they get people to fall in line.

01:07:10.000 They fall in line through fear.

01:07:12.000 Yeah? Yeah.

01:07:13.000 Well, fear and force.

01:07:14.000 It's like also, you know, you have to do this because the apocalypse is looming.

01:07:19.000 Which is always, in a way, true. 0.90

01:07:22.000 Always. Well, there's always an apocalypse of one form or another looming.

01:07:25.000 The question is, what do you do about it?

01:07:27.000 And terrify people and compel them.

01:07:29.000 Well, depending on where you live anywhere in the world right now, right?

01:07:31.000 You might be experiencing the apocalypse right now if you live in Gaza. 1.00

01:07:34.000 You might be experiencing the apocalypse right now if you're in Yemen, if you're a Houthi, right? 1.00

01:07:40.000 The end of the world is always coming.

01:07:44.000 Right. And for you, for me, for...

01:07:46.000 For everybody.

01:07:47.000 Yeah, right.

01:07:47.000 So you can always look into the future and conjure up an apocalyptic scenario.

01:07:52.000 And maybe even that in itself isn't a sin, although I think it is.

01:07:57.000 There's another...

01:07:58.000 But if you then turn to fear and compulsion as your means of governance, then you're a tyrant.

01:08:04.000 I don't care what your excuse is.

01:08:05.000 It has to be invitational.

01:08:07.000 That's when it gets scary when you see governments telling people that they have to fall in line or these are horrible consequences for you not agreeing to what we're saying.

01:08:16.000 And then if you don't do this, you're a part of the problem.

01:08:20.000 Right, exactly.

01:08:20.000 Well, and if the apocalypse that's generated in that way is of sufficient magnitude, there's no limit to the amount of power that can be exerted.

01:08:29.000 Because obviously the rationale is there.

01:08:32.000 They have to do it, right?

01:08:34.000 This is the rationale to stop Trump, right?

01:08:36.000 You're trying to stop Hitler. 0.86

01:08:37.000 Right, right.

01:08:38.000 No matter what.

01:08:39.000 Circumvent the First Amendment, use the law, use lawfare.

01:08:42.000 Use whatever.

01:08:43.000 Yeah. Use whatever.

01:08:44.000 This is one of the things that worries me about Canada at the moment.

01:08:48.000 Now, I know when we talked a couple of weeks ago, I expressed my concern about what was happening in Canada.

01:08:53.000 Yeah, it doesn't look good.

01:08:54.000 Well, I read Carney's book, Values.

01:08:57.000 I read it twice, and I understood it.

01:09:00.000 And Carney says in that book, well, he says he's an advocate of...

01:09:07.000 Centralized Planning, ESG.

01:09:08.000 He was a huge ESG advocate.

01:09:11.000 He organized many large corporations to go down this central planning governance route because the market wasn't pricing everything properly.

01:09:21.000 And so central planners had to step in.

01:09:23.000 And BlackRock and Vanguard and places like that were big parts of that.

01:09:26.000 Don't know if they were directly affected by Kearney, but it's the same thing.

01:09:30.000 And they've stepped away from that.

01:09:31.000 And he's a big DEI advocate.

01:09:33.000 And he's also a net-zero advocate.

01:09:36.000 And Carney says in his book, this is a good example of this, and I think also a good example of this kind of narcissism that we talked about earlier.

01:09:46.000 Every single financial decision that every individual or organization makes has to prioritize decarbonization above all else.

01:09:53.000 Or else! 0.94

01:09:54.000 And there will be many, he doesn't say casualties, but he implies that, there'll be many...

01:09:59.000 There'll be many who pay a price along the way, but it's necessary, you know, because you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

01:10:06.000 And then he says 75% of the world's fossil fuels have to stay in the ground.

01:10:11.000 And this is who Canadians are seriously thinking about electing.

01:10:14.000 Why does he say the fossil fuels have to stay in the ground?

01:10:17.000 Too much carbon.

01:10:19.000 You know, the real problem with that is the same problem with the COVID narrative, is that they don't allow any dissent.

01:10:28.000 They don't allow any data that conflicts with the narrative.

01:10:32.000 And they don't want to look at any possible...

01:10:37.000 Like, both of them are complicated.

01:10:39.000 They're not similar in a lot, but they are because they're top-down, tyrannical tools.

01:10:46.000 Using fear and compulsion.

01:10:48.000 So, during the COVID times, nobody wanted to look at any alternative treatments.

01:10:53.000 They didn't want to look at...

01:10:56.000 Health, metabolic health.

01:10:57.000 They didn't want to look at any factors other than vaccination and compliance.

01:11:02.000 With carbon, no one wants to look at, I'm sure you saw that Washington Post study of the last, was it 50 million years, the graph that shows the temperature of Earth?

01:11:14.000 Have you seen it?

01:11:15.000 We're in a cooling period.

01:11:16.000 And that was always what, I mean, during the 1970s, Leonard Nimoy, when he had that In Search Of show.

01:11:22.000 One of the things that they covered was that we are at the verge of an ice age, and how terrifying an ice age is.

01:11:28.000 Yeah, well, the conclusion you draw about climate and carbon dioxide is entirely dependent on where you put the origin point of your graph.

01:11:36.000 So if you go back 150 years ago, carbon dioxide has increased.

01:11:40.000 If you go back 500 million years ago, which is quite a lot longer, we're in a drought, like a serious carbon dioxide drought.

01:11:48.000 Right, and also carbon dioxide is the fuel of plants.

01:11:52.000 Yes, it turns out that they like it.

01:11:54.000 Well, you know the global greening data.

01:11:58.000 Yeah, say it, so people know it.

01:12:00.000 Well, you know, one of the things I learned as a scientist was that there's usually an explanation or two that accounts for a phenomenon so completely that almost everything else is noise.

01:12:14.000 The Maha movement, make America healthy again.

01:12:16.000 The fundamental issue is insulin resistance.

01:12:20.000 Like, that's the fundamental plague of, say, North America.

01:12:24.000 And everything else is noise.

01:12:26.000 It's not unimportant noise, but insulin resistance is the major contributor.

01:12:30.000 On the climate side, when I look at the data, the thing that leaps out for me is greening.

01:12:37.000 Like, the planet is 20% greener than it was 30 years ago.

01:12:41.000 Okay, 20%.

01:12:43.000 This is NASA data.

01:12:44.000 I'm not inventing this.

01:12:46.000 Okay, and then the next question, you think, oh, 20%.

01:12:48.000 If 20% of the plants had vanished, you'd be sure we'd heard about that.

01:12:54.000 Yes. Okay, so, and agricultural outputs got up 13%.

01:12:58.000 Now, whether all that additional carbon dioxide is a function of human activity, that's still debatable.

01:13:03.000 It doesn't matter.

01:13:04.000 There is an association between the carbon dioxide rise and the plant propagation.

01:13:09.000 Okay, it's even...

01:13:11.000 More particular than that, because a lot of the greening has occurred in semi-arid areas, so areas around deserts.

01:13:19.000 And the reason for that is that if there's more carbon dioxide, the plants can close their breathing pores more, and they don't lose water.

01:13:27.000 And so not only is there 20% more vegetation, which is a lot, I think it's twice the area of the United States that's greened.

01:13:37.000 That's a lot of green.

01:13:39.000 Where our agricultural production is more effective.

01:13:42.000 And the places that have greened were the very places that the deserts were supposed to expand into.

01:13:49.000 And so, right, because they've greened.

01:13:51.000 They've shrunk, not grown.

01:13:53.000 Now, you know, you could say, well, that rate of change has its problems.

01:13:57.000 And, you know, rates of change have their problems.

01:14:00.000 But I don't see another data point that's anywhere near us.

01:14:04.000 Stunning is that?

01:14:05.000 I think it's a really important point where you said that if we lost 20% of the plans, people would be freaking out.

01:14:10.000 Oh my god.

01:14:11.000 Rightly so.

01:14:12.000 Rightly so.

01:14:13.000 But yet it's not even discussed.

01:14:15.000 Because, again, it's one of those things that invades the narrative.

01:14:20.000 It's one of those pesky facts, those pesky truths that gets in the way of the thing that you're saying, well, the apocalypse is coming.

01:14:27.000 Yeah, well, that's the thing about the narrative.

01:14:29.000 It's like, okay, so now we talked about...

01:14:32.000 The psychopaths who manipulate belief systems for their own advantage, right?

01:14:38.000 The people who use God's name in vain, the Pharisees who want to dress in religious clothing and obtain status. 0.59

01:14:45.000 In consequence, they're Christ's number one enemies in the Gospels, by the way, those people.

01:14:49.000 They're the ones who conspire to crucify him, right?

01:14:52.000 The religious pretenders. 0.97

01:14:53.000 So this has been going on for a very long period of time.

01:14:59.000 The climate apocalypse narrative is perfectly situated to, what would you say, to serve the purposes of the narcissists, the Machiavellians, the psychopaths and the sadists,

01:15:15.000 because it's a...

01:15:17.000 Infinitely expanding existential threat that can be used as an excuse for anything.

01:15:22.000 Yes. Right?

01:15:23.000 And it also provides a perfect cloak for any amount of power maneuvering.

01:15:27.000 It's like, I want to make your shower heads put out a needle spray so that you're cold all the time while you have a shower, while you're doing something you do every day that could otherwise be highly enjoyable.

01:15:41.000 Why do I get to invade your life to that degree?

01:15:43.000 Well, because the planet's at stake, Joe.

01:15:46.000 And who are you to privilege your shower comfort, something that trivial, over the fate of the entire planet?

01:15:52.000 Well, you can use that argument at every single level.

01:15:55.000 You know, Trump came out with this executive statement just a few days ago about showerheads.

01:16:00.000 And everybody kind of laughed about that.

01:16:02.000 And I thought, no, he has an eye for petty tyranny.

01:16:06.000 Right? For petty tyranny.

01:16:07.000 And there's very little that's more petty than...

01:16:11.000 Well, I think the showerhead example is a perfect one.

01:16:13.000 And then you also think, look, if they're willing to control your life at that level of detail, what are they not willing to control?

01:16:20.000 It's like, you're concerned about my showerheads?

01:16:22.000 Like we're out of water, which we're not at all?

01:16:26.000 So what won't you control?

01:16:28.000 So you think, well, the psychopaths are edge cases.

01:16:32.000 They'll move wherever the power is.

01:16:34.000 They find a narrative that...

01:16:36.000 Can be used to strike fear in the hearts of people and to justify compulsion.

01:16:41.000 They ally themselves with that belief claim, and then they ratchet themselves up status hierarchies without any true reputational validity riding on that edge of fear and power.

01:16:56.000 Right. Right.

01:16:57.000 I wrote an article, it hasn't been published yet, in The Telegraph, because I got hell a lot after one of our...

01:17:05.000 Podcasts. You may know this, but...

01:17:07.000 The climate change stuff.

01:17:08.000 That's right.

01:17:09.000 The whole bloody transcript was sent to the college as an indication that I was out of my wheelhouse.

01:17:14.000 You know, and maybe I stepped a bit out of my wheelhouse when we had that discussion, because I'm not a climate scientist, whatever the hell that is, by the way.

01:17:22.000 Because you have to know a lot to be a climate scientist and an economist on top of that.

01:17:27.000 So today I'm talking about something that's a lot more psychological.

01:17:30.000 The climate apocalypse narrative is a social contagion that's driven by power-mad psychopaths who are hell-bent on using fear and compulsion to make sure everyone steps in line so that they...

01:17:44.000 Can continue with their acquisition of undeserved power.

01:17:47.000 It's also effective enough that the people that are underneath the power comply and do the job of the man for the man.

01:17:55.000 Yeah, well, that's the advantage of using fear and compulsion, right?

01:17:59.000 It's like, well, I have to go along with this because...

01:18:01.000 My leaders, who had built up a certain degree of credibility, are telling me that, you know, the apocalypse is nigh.

01:18:08.000 And who am I to, well, first of all, question, because, God, there's a hard thing to figure out.

01:18:12.000 You know, what's the global effect of human activity on the climate for the next hundred years?

01:18:18.000 Well, good luck figuring that out.

01:18:20.000 But this is why I'm making it more psychological this time.

01:18:23.000 It's like...

01:18:24.000 The climate fluctuates, and for complex reasons, but that doesn't mean that you get to look 100 years into the future, and you get to conjure up an apocalyptic narrative, and you get to say, we're the only people that can save you, and you get to say, you have to change every single thing you do in your life and prioritize our concern above all else,

01:18:44.000 including even the well-being of your own children, or the...

01:18:47.000 The economic future of the Africans, for example, who don't get to use fossil fuels, right?

01:18:52.000 You don't get to do that.

01:18:54.000 You don't get to do that using fear and compulsion.

01:18:56.000 Not only that, it's being done by people who have been wrong.

01:18:59.000 About everything.

01:19:00.000 Every step of the way.

01:19:01.000 Every step of the way.

01:19:02.000 Yeah, well, then they just play a sleight of hand game there.

01:19:04.000 Okay, we got the time frame wrong, Joe.

01:19:06.000 It's not 20 years.

01:19:07.000 But it's not even just that.

01:19:09.000 It's not even just climate change.

01:19:10.000 It's basically everything.

01:19:11.000 Public health, agriculture, you name it.

01:19:14.000 Everything. Every single thing.

01:19:16.000 The water supply.

01:19:17.000 Everything. That sets us back into this conundrum that you and Douglas and Dave were addressing.

01:19:21.000 It's like, okay, two conundrums, like three.

01:19:26.000 How do you pursue your interest in a landscape that's been shorn of reliable expert input?

01:19:33.000 Who do you rely on?

01:19:35.000 If you don't know who to rely on, how do you keep the bloody psychopaths at bay?

01:19:41.000 And the conspiracy theorist mongers and the people who aren't trying to discover the truth, but who are using...

01:19:48.000 The conspiratorial edge, let's say.

01:19:49.000 The grifters.

01:19:50.000 Yeah, the groipers for that matter, right?

01:19:53.000 These are people who are clearly playing power games for their own benefit and they're spinning up these conspiratorial narratives and riding on them and occupying them in this parasitical manner.

01:20:04.000 There's going to be a huge...

01:20:06.000 This is a huge problem already on the right-wing side.

01:20:10.000 I don't even know what the hell that is anymore because I don't know what the left is and I don't know what the right is, but...

01:20:15.000 We need to claim the centre.

01:20:18.000 Well, that's also what we're trying to do with ARC.

01:20:20.000 What is the center?

01:20:22.000 The center is where we can all meet up.

01:20:24.000 And I think that's doable.

01:20:27.000 Well, let's specify it even more.

01:20:29.000 The center is a place you'd go if you were invited.

01:20:33.000 Right? Right, exactly.

01:20:35.000 And that also ties back into this idea of play.

01:20:39.000 You know, like, Piaget figured this out when he was watching little kids.

01:20:43.000 So, if a little boy wants to play house with a little girl... 0.71

01:20:46.000 Which is generally a good idea if you want to play house with a woman at some point in your life. 1.00

01:20:49.000 You better get that right.

01:20:50.000 It's a very serious game.

01:20:52.000 What's the first rule?

01:20:54.000 She has to want to play.

01:20:56.000 Right. What's the second rule?

01:20:58.000 You have to play with her in a manner that makes her want to play with you again. 0.94

01:21:02.000 Right? I've been thinking about this a lot in terms of what constitutes objective standards of morality.

01:21:09.000 You know how Sam Harris...

01:21:10.000 Sam Harris was obsessed with malevolence, and he wanted to ground morality in objective science because he thought that would give us a firm standing place.

01:21:18.000 But he went down the wrong scientific rabbit hole, I think.

01:21:22.000 I think if you understand this relationship with play and iteration, then you have the core of morality.

01:21:28.000 And Piaget, by the way, this is part of...

01:21:31.000 What would you say?

01:21:33.000 This is the larger...

01:21:34.000 This is the philosophical edge of his theory.

01:21:37.000 This is actually what he was trying to accomplish.

01:21:39.000 How do you decide if an arrangement is good versus bad or good versus evil?

01:21:43.000 Well, Piaget went to children to find that out.

01:21:46.000 It's like, okay, you want to set up a game.

01:21:49.000 Why? Well, a game is the first social, it's the foundation of social interaction, right?

01:21:55.000 Play a game with one other people, one other person, and then maybe you can play a game with a bunch of people, and then you can play a game with one person or a bunch of people across a long period of time, and then you can do it in a way that improves.

01:22:08.000 Okay, so now, so what are the rules?

01:22:10.000 If you're a little boy, she has to want to play.

01:22:13.000 And then you have to play with her in a way so that she wants to play with you again.

01:22:17.000 If you do that, then you have a friend.

01:22:19.000 And that iterates.

01:22:20.000 Now, so you can imagine that there's a structure, a voluntary play, that's really quite stringent.

01:22:25.000 But this is what you do on your podcast.

01:22:28.000 Seriously. And that's why it's so attractive to people.

01:22:31.000 That's the core of what you might call objective morality.

01:22:35.000 It's like there's...

01:22:36.000 There's a very limited number of ways to offer a game that someone else wants to play, and then there's a very limited number of ways to play that game so that they want to keep playing with you.

01:22:46.000 And then if you add that additional constraint of improvement across the games, you've got the straight and narrow path.

01:22:54.000 And then it's marked by, we're really trying to do this at ARC.

01:22:59.000 We want to offer a vision that people want to accept.

01:23:06.000 Or even thrilled to accept, because that's even better, right?

01:23:09.000 A game that you'd be thrilled to play.

01:23:11.000 So one of the things we're doing on the energy side, I'm going to an event with Alex Epstein here in two days.

01:23:15.000 Talk to energy executives about this.

01:23:18.000 You know, well, what kind of world do you want to see?

01:23:21.000 Well, how about a world where there's so much energy that poor people can afford it?

01:23:29.000 How'd that be for a vision?

01:23:30.000 Like, have you got a problem with that?

01:23:31.000 Well, poor people can't have energy because that'll destroy the planet. 1.00

01:23:35.000 It's like, no, poor people can't have that energy because you'd have to let go of the game that you're playing as a narcissistic psychopath that's elevating your status.

01:23:44.000 And you're perfectly willing to sacrifice the world's poor to continue your grip on power.

01:23:49.000 How about that for a psychological interpretation?

01:23:51.000 And how about this as an alternative?

01:23:53.000 Why don't we do everything we can to drive energy costs down to the lowest degree that's sustainable, like in a market economy, and make energy available to everyone so that we eradicate absolute poverty?

01:24:05.000 Why wouldn't the left line up around that?

01:24:09.000 Because the left hypothetically serves the poor.

01:24:12.000 It's like nothing serves the poor better than an ethos first.

01:24:16.000 We've got to get that right because we're also interested in getting the story right.

01:24:20.000 But after that, on the material side, there's nothing more important than cheap energy.

01:24:24.000 Right, but can I stop you for a second there?

01:24:25.000 I don't think people on the left are getting that message.

01:24:28.000 I don't think they're hearing that this is exactly what third world countries need is a reliable source of energy and industry.

01:24:36.000 To elevate themselves out of poverty.

01:24:38.000 They're not.

01:24:38.000 They're not getting that.

01:24:39.000 But it's not the problem of the people that are on the left, like the general followers.

01:24:46.000 Well, it might be a problem that's facilitated by the psychopathic fringe types.

01:24:52.000 Like, look, I think...

01:24:53.000 It's not offered to them, is my point.

01:24:55.000 Yeah, the question is, why not?

01:24:57.000 And the reason is, like, this is part of the...

01:25:00.000 You talk to Lomberg.

01:25:01.000 Right? To Bjorn.

01:25:03.000 And Bjorn's pretty good on this, or very good on this, I should say.

01:25:06.000 Yes. You know, to give him credit.

01:25:07.000 And he would like to see a world where, and he's part of ARC, he'd like to see a world where we make energy abundance a top priority.

01:25:13.000 It's probably the only way you're going to pull third-world countries out of dire poverty.

01:25:19.000 Well, it's also, as far as I can tell, the only way that you pull them out of environmental catastrophe.

01:25:24.000 Right. Because if you want to produce an environmental catastrophe, a true environmental catastrophe, how about a three- or four-year famine so that everyone there kills all the animals, for example, or dies, right?

01:25:37.000 So we also know that if you get people above $5,000 a year GDP...

01:25:42.000 Then they start paying attention to long-term environmental sustainability because they don't have to scrabble around in the dirt for their next meal.

01:25:50.000 So then we could say, well, how about we have a future of sufficient abundance so that no one is deprived of energy or opportunity for their children?

01:26:01.000 Right. Well, that sounds like an invitation.

01:26:05.000 Now, if you hate people and you think the industrial enterprise is a...

01:26:09.000 Stain on the planet and that we're viruses or cancer on the planet, then you're going to have a problem with that.

01:26:15.000 But my sense, too, is that if we had enough energy, we could make all the deserts bloom.

01:26:20.000 I was watching a video on pollution in India about the amount of garbage that gets thrown in rivers in India.

01:26:30.000 And it was staggering, just staggering to watch that somehow or another.

01:26:38.000 Because the population is so large and there's so many poor people and there's a lack of hope, whatever it is, they're just throwing their garbage in the rivers. 0.73

01:26:48.000 And the rivers are just overwhelmed.

01:26:50.000 If there's ever a symbol of people that have been led the wrong way, like bad leadership, bad planning, bad underlying story, everything.

01:27:01.000 That's it.

01:27:02.000 When you look in your river and all you see is water bottles.

01:27:06.000 All you see is floating plastic.

01:27:08.000 That's the whole river.

01:27:09.000 And you know that if you get in that water, you're going to get sick.

01:27:13.000 And yet, no one looks at it as this number one priority.

01:27:18.000 Like, what do you always say?

01:27:19.000 Clean your room.

01:27:20.000 Make your bed.

01:27:21.000 Like, right?

01:27:22.000 Yeah. What's going on?

01:27:25.000 Well, and you want to incentivize people to pay attention to their local environment.

01:27:29.000 And you do that in part by ensuring that they're not living so close to the edge of catastrophe that they can only think about today.

01:27:35.000 Right. And if you start from the mindset that...

01:27:38.000 Can I tell you another story?

01:27:39.000 Sure. Okay.

01:27:40.000 You tell me all the stories.

01:27:41.000 You don't have to ask questions.

01:27:42.000 All right.

01:27:43.000 This is a really cool story.

01:27:44.000 Okay. This is how to set the world right, this story.

01:27:47.000 So I've been traveling around lecturing about my book, and I wrote a chapter on Abraham in that book.

01:27:53.000 And Abraham is the father of, in principle, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.

01:27:59.000 He's the father of nations.

01:28:00.000 That's how the story goes.

01:28:03.000 So, when God comes to Abraham in a very particular way, it's one of the ways God is characterized in the Old Testament.

01:28:10.000 So this is like a definition of God.

01:28:13.000 It's not a testament to God.

01:28:14.000 It's a definition of what God is.

01:28:17.000 Okay, so Abraham, he doesn't hear anything about God until he's like 70. And he's already living in privileged paradise because his father and his mother are rich.

01:28:29.000 And so he doesn't have to lift a finger.

01:28:31.000 If life is about having your needs met, Abraham's got it covered. 0.94

01:28:35.000 And so he lives like a satiated infant till he's 70. And then a voice comes to him and it says, you are required by the God of your ancestors to leave your zone of comfort.

01:28:51.000 To leave the wealth of your father, to leave your nation, to leave your language, to go out into the world and have your terrible adventure.

01:29:01.000 And if you do that, so now imagine that's the call to adventure.

01:29:06.000 If you do that, these things will happen.

01:29:09.000 This is the covenant that God makes to the Abrahamic people. 0.60

01:29:12.000 It's so cool.

01:29:13.000 I just talked to Brett Weinstein about this from an evolutionary biological perspective on the road because I wanted him to evaluate the story I'm going to tell you from an evolutionary perspective.

01:29:22.000 So God is the voice that says to Abraham, if you follow the call of adventure, you'll be a blessing to yourself.

01:29:30.000 So that's the meaning of life, right?

01:29:32.000 To have the adventure.

01:29:33.000 You'll do this in a way...

01:29:34.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, because adventure is compelling.

01:29:39.000 Responsible romantic adventure is the most compelling pathway.

01:29:42.000 And if it's intense enough, it justifies the suffering.

01:29:46.000 It's a reason to get up in the morning, even if you're in pain.

01:29:51.000 Then he says, there's another thing that'll happen too, which is that your name will become known among your people for valid reasons.

01:29:59.000 So that's that genuine reputation that we talked about.

01:30:03.000 So if you follow the pattern of adventure properly, you'll be a blessing to yourself, and your name will become known among your people for valid reasons.

01:30:11.000 So that's a good deal.

01:30:14.000 You'll do this in a way that will maximize the probability that you'll establish something of permanence, or even eternal permanence.

01:30:21.000 So Abraham is offered, if he accepts the call and makes the proper sacrifices along the way, God says your descendants will outnumber the stars.

01:30:31.000 So he establishes the pattern of fatherhood that best propagates down the generations, which is the same as following the pathway of adventure.

01:30:41.000 Then he says, you'll do this in a way that will make sure no one can stand before you.

01:30:46.000 So that if you adhere to that adventurous spirit and you propagate it, all enemies will either be converted into friends or flee before you.

01:30:58.000 And then you'll do it in a way that brings abundance to everyone.

01:31:01.000 So now this is the question I'd ask Brett.

01:31:05.000 So imagine this.

01:31:06.000 So imagine that we have an instinct in us.

01:31:09.000 Or a divine voice.

01:31:10.000 I don't care which of those you use.

01:31:11.000 An instinct within us that calls us to develop, right?

01:31:15.000 That puts us on the edge.

01:31:16.000 And that's not the same as looking for infantile satiation or the gratification of our needs.

01:31:22.000 It's genuinely this call to expand yourself and to be on the edge and to develop.

01:31:27.000 That if you did that, to follow that instinct, then you'd be a blessing to yourself.

01:31:32.000 Your name would become known among your people.

01:31:34.000 You'd establish something of permanent significance.

01:31:37.000 No one could stand before you and it would bring abundance to everyone.

01:31:40.000 Right? And then in the Abrahamic story, what happens is that as Abraham accepts that, goes out in the world, and then he has a series of adventures, each of which requires a more complete sacrifice.

01:31:53.000 Because as you develop, under the influence of this call, what you're required to do is to live More carefully in accordance with your expanding domain of opportunity.

01:32:08.000 And that's the pathway forward.

01:32:10.000 So I asked Brett about that.

01:32:12.000 Because this is different than the selfish gene idea, right?

01:32:14.000 It's like there's an instinct within us that calls us to develop, that pulls us out into the world.

01:32:19.000 And if we follow it religiously, and we make the proper sacrifices along the way, then those five things will happen around us.

01:32:28.000 And that speaks of a...

01:32:30.000 Concordance, which has to be there, has to be there, between the spirit that develops us and the pathway that brings maximal benefit to the natural and the social world.

01:32:41.000 And I can't see how that can be the case.

01:32:43.000 If we're adapted to the world, that has to be the case, right?

01:32:47.000 It has to be that if we followed the instinct that would best put us together psychologically, this quest, this adventure, that would also be the spirit that set the world in order.

01:32:58.000 And that spirit, that whole thing, that's what's defined as God in that particular story.

01:33:05.000 That resonates.

01:33:07.000 See, the alternative is preposterous, right?

01:33:10.000 The alternative is that we don't have an instinct to develop.

01:33:15.000 And you know that's wrong.

01:33:16.000 You just have to watch children.

01:33:17.000 And you know that's wrong.

01:33:18.000 You just have to watch yourself and the curiosity that you have and the desire for novelty and for learning.

01:33:24.000 You know that's there.

01:33:25.000 That's what you followed to make this show.

01:33:28.000 Definitely. And so the alternative is that instinct doesn't exist.

01:33:33.000 That's a stupid theory.

01:33:35.000 Or what brings you into the world is done at the expense of other people.

01:33:42.000 In a way that won't enhance your reputation, in a way that has nothing to do with anything permanent, right?

01:33:47.000 Then it would be sort of you against the world.

01:33:50.000 That would be like a power orientation.

01:33:52.000 You can get your way in the world, but you have to manipulate, you have to lie, you have to use compulsion, you have to use fear.

01:33:57.000 You can't just rely on the quest, say, or your adventure.

01:34:02.000 And I think you can.

01:34:04.000 I think you can.

01:34:05.000 I think you better.

01:34:06.000 Or else, there's that too.

01:34:09.000 It's interesting because you're talking about tyrants, right?

01:34:12.000 And you're talking about people of extreme power and how that corrupts.

01:34:16.000 And in that case, there's a large percentage of those people that are violating all those things that you said.

01:34:25.000 Because they do manipulate and they do rely on fear.

01:34:28.000 Well, you don't need your...

01:34:31.000 Was an advocate of the will to power, right?

01:34:34.000 So you can imagine that there's a variety of potential motivating forces, and one would be hedonic pleasure.

01:34:40.000 That's the golden calf worshippers, by the way.

01:34:42.000 So that's just short-term hedonism.

01:34:44.000 And that doesn't work.

01:34:46.000 And by work, I mean it doesn't iterate socially.

01:34:49.000 It's like if it's all about you and what some whim in you wants now, first of all, that's not going to serve you well tomorrow.

01:34:56.000 And I don't want to be anywhere near you.

01:34:57.000 Right. Like, you're literally an overgrown two-year-old.

01:35:00.000 Right. And that gets pretty ugly by the time you're 40. Right.

01:35:03.000 So the whole golden calf thing, no, that's just off the table.

01:35:06.000 But isn't it kind of celebrated amongst certain high achievers, particularly in the business world, like that hedonistic, sociopathic drive to constantly get more numbers on the ledger?

01:35:18.000 Yeah, well, I don't know if that's exactly hedonism.

01:35:21.000 Greed is good.

01:35:22.000 That's Wall Street, right?

01:35:23.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:35:23.000 That's Michael Douglas, right?

01:35:24.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:35:24.000 Greed is good.

01:35:27.000 Okay, let's delve into that for a minute.

01:35:29.000 Okay, so...

01:35:31.000 I'm not advocating for that, by the way.

01:35:33.000 I know you're not.

01:35:35.000 You can turn to hedonism, you can fall into nihilism, you can turn to hedonism, or you can turn to power.

01:35:43.000 Okay, this Abrahamic covenant, it's different than power.

01:35:46.000 It's adventure.

01:35:48.000 It's romantic adventure, actually.

01:35:50.000 That's not the only definition of God in the Old Testament, by the way.

01:35:53.000 There's something deeper than...

01:35:54.000 Than that that it refers to.

01:35:56.000 So those are the options.

01:35:58.000 Now you said, don't the achievers, you know, who are stacking up numbers, it's like they found a way forward to attain status, but they fixated on an element that shouldn't be fundamental.

01:36:13.000 They're not trying to store up the treasure in heaven.

01:36:17.000 They're trying to store up the treasure on earth, and that's better than not doing it.

01:36:21.000 See, this is another thing we need to understand, because I've spent a lot of time, for example, trying to figure out why people are attracted to Andrew Tate.

01:36:28.000 And I know why they're attracted to Andrew Tate.

01:36:31.000 They'd rather be Andrew Tate than an incel.

01:36:34.000 And they're right, right?

01:36:36.000 It's best to give the devil his due.

01:36:38.000 Like, if you had to choose between being kind of flabby and unhealthy and resentful and in your basement looking at pornography...

01:36:49.000 Hating women because all of them reject you all the time and you deserve it and you're ineffectual and the future looks pretty damn gloomy and then you see Andrew Tate who's tough and hyper-masculine in an almost manner that's almost a parody and wealthy and famous and...

01:37:14.000 Apparently has women at his disposal with a fair bit of stress on the idea of disposal.

01:37:20.000 You'd think, well, I'd much rather be him than me.

01:37:22.000 That's the incorporation of the shadow from the Jungian perspective.

01:37:26.000 It's like, it's right.

01:37:28.000 And you think about the number of men that are incels.

01:37:32.000 The thing about men also, if they get rejected a lot...

01:37:38.000 They associate women with pain.

01:37:40.000 Yeah. And then they get angry at those women because those women cause them pain. 1.00

01:37:43.000 Like, it's just a very simple equation.

01:37:45.000 Of course.

01:37:46.000 And that's how you get a man-hater.

01:37:48.000 Or, excuse me, that's how you get a woman-hater. 0.98

01:37:50.000 And the same could be said for...

01:37:51.000 That's how you get a man-hater, right?

01:37:53.000 You associate men with rejection and cruelty.

01:37:56.000 And you think they're all that way.

01:37:58.000 Young men, in particular, are more likely to be rejected.

01:38:01.000 Young women... 1.00

01:38:02.000 May have difficulty finding the ideal man, but they don't face the same degree of universal rejection.

01:38:08.000 So it's hard on young men.

01:38:10.000 Well, they're not the pursuers, right, as much.

01:38:13.000 Young women aren't. 1.00

01:38:14.000 Right, right.

01:38:15.000 And women are the gatekeepers, fundamentally, of sex. 1.00

01:38:18.000 So that's their essential power.

01:38:21.000 That's also the power of chastity. 1.00

01:38:23.000 And that's the scary thing about acquiring wealth.

01:38:25.000 Is that wealth allows you to bypass the genetic social hierarchy?

01:38:30.000 Yeah, well, I talked to Russell Brand about this a lot.

01:38:35.000 You know, women threw themselves at him. 0.53

01:38:38.000 How'd that work out for him?

01:38:40.000 Not great.

01:38:41.000 You know, it threw him into great spiritual confusion.

01:38:44.000 It was empty and hollow.

01:38:46.000 And that's worth knowing, you see, because you might say to the people who are interested in the shadow figures, and Tate plays that role.

01:38:54.000 The master of women, let's say. 1.00

01:38:57.000 Why not do that?

01:38:59.000 Because you need an answer to that, certainly when it's better than being lonely, isolated, bitter, and ineffectual.

01:39:07.000 That's for sure.

01:39:08.000 Well, it's because you don't confuse a stepping stone with a pinnacle.

01:39:16.000 That's why.

01:39:17.000 There's way more beyond that.

01:39:20.000 I mean, you're a tough guy.

01:39:23.000 You went through your disciplinary processes on the physical side in particular, the intellectual side too, I might add.

01:39:32.000 You know, you've got what Tate has to offer, but you're what?

01:39:36.000 You're respectable.

01:39:38.000 Why? Why?

01:39:41.000 I have a completely different background than him, first of all.

01:39:43.000 And also, my feeling in life...

01:39:53.000 Whenever you can, be nice.

01:39:55.000 That's like a general guideline.

01:39:58.000 You mean nice or good?

01:39:58.000 I mean both.

01:40:00.000 Okay. Nice as well.

01:40:04.000 I get the posturing.

01:40:07.000 I get how it would be attractive to young men.

01:40:10.000 I get it.

01:40:10.000 If I was a young man, I would certainly be drawn to him.

01:40:13.000 And I was to many fighters.

01:40:15.000 And I accepted a lot of personality flaws in people that I admired as fighters because they were very successful at doing this one insanely difficult thing.

01:40:24.000 Right, right, right.

01:40:25.000 And oftentimes that requires a certain amount of narcissism.

01:40:29.000 It requires a certain amount of internal focus.

01:40:34.000 Ironically enough, not at the championship level.

01:40:37.000 Ironically enough, it gets you close, but it doesn't get you to be the king.

01:40:42.000 The kings are almost...

01:40:44.000 Precisely....universally disciplined, focused, and generally kind.

01:40:49.000 They're some of the nicest people, the best, at the most difficult thing athletically to do.

01:40:57.000 And the most difficult...

01:40:58.000 You're conquering other training.

01:40:59.000 Why do you think that is?

01:41:00.000 I think you have to be.

01:41:01.000 Why? Why?

01:41:02.000 I think Miyamoto Busashi wrote about this in the Book of Five Rings.

01:41:06.000 You must have balance in everything in life.

01:41:10.000 If you have imbalance, you can get pretty far because you're so...

01:41:16.000 Specialized. Right.

01:41:17.000 You're so driven.

01:41:18.000 But you will fall prey to the...

01:41:22.000 To the balanced man.

01:41:23.000 Yeah, well, that's exactly my point.

01:41:26.000 You will also recognize characteristics in him that you envy and that you wish you had yourself.

01:41:32.000 Like, if you're a narcissist and a sociopath, you know you are, and you can't really be proud of yourself.

01:41:37.000 You don't have the benefit of the positive feedback that you get from true kindness to others.

01:41:45.000 You don't have that.

01:41:46.000 Well, you also know that your reputation is founded on sand.

01:41:49.000 And one of the ways to rationalize that is, well, everyone does that.

01:41:52.000 Right. Everyone's like that.

01:41:53.000 Exactly. Yeah, but then you don't trust or like anyone.

01:41:56.000 Right. And then you're really alone.

01:41:58.000 That's for sure.

01:41:59.000 You're really alone.

01:42:00.000 And then if you do achieve success, it's hollow.

01:42:02.000 Because you realize, like...

01:42:04.000 So, you know, you just outlined there the progression that Carl Jung identified as characteristic of individuation.

01:42:11.000 Right? With the second thing that you said.

01:42:14.000 So imagine that you start an incel, right?

01:42:19.000 You're ineffectual and you're rejected as a young man.

01:42:22.000 Now, there are exceptions, but let's just play that out as the unhappy majority.

01:42:28.000 Okay, now you look for a shadow figure to sharpen you up, to toughen you up, and to make you strive at least along one dimension.

01:42:38.000 Right? And so then you do that.

01:42:40.000 Well, then the next thing that happens in the Jungian stage progression is, for a man, it's integration of the anima, which is the feminine part.

01:42:49.000 And it's integration, it's not replacement.

01:42:52.000 It's like, oh, well, then you discover the utility of empathy and compassion and kindness and mercy and care, while still being able to deal out justice, let's say.

01:43:01.000 And so then you bridge that gap, and then that integration you just said, even among fighters, that's what puts them in the highest place.

01:43:08.000 Right, that's right.

01:43:10.000 That's right.

01:43:11.000 But it's hard for the people, it's hard for those who are completely disaffected and also quite angry about it.

01:43:17.000 You know, the people who are interested in the pathway that Tate offers, they're not so unhappy that he's hard on women.

01:43:24.000 Because they're pretty mad at women.

01:43:27.000 And so, you know, if it's the bitch or me, then I'll pick me. 1.00

01:43:32.000 Right, exactly, exactly, exactly.

01:43:34.000 And so...

01:43:36.000 And it is very crucial to get this progression correct because monster's better than wimp. 0.95

01:43:44.000 Right. Right.

01:43:46.000 But the question is, what's better than monster?

01:43:49.000 And so it's very interesting that you made those comments on the fighting side because you wouldn't necessarily think that it would be true in that world as well.

01:43:57.000 Well, one of the best examples is your countryman, George St. Pierre.

01:44:00.000 One of the greatest of all time.

01:44:02.000 One of the nicest guys I've ever met.

01:44:04.000 And if you didn't know that he was one of the greatest fighters of all time, you would never guess it.

01:44:09.000 You would never guess it talking to him.

01:44:11.000 He's curious.

01:44:12.000 He's interesting.

01:44:14.000 He's intelligent.

01:44:15.000 He's very well-read.

01:44:17.000 He's always interested in different things.

01:44:22.000 He's constantly searching for new information.

01:44:25.000 And as a martial artist...

01:44:28.000 He is still on a quest of improvement, even though he's retired from competing.

01:44:33.000 He always trains.

01:44:34.000 He's constantly training.

01:44:35.000 A quest for new information.

01:44:36.000 Okay, so let me tell you a story about that.

01:44:38.000 Please. All right, so this is the story that comes up at the beginning of Moses when he turns into a leader.

01:44:46.000 So it's about how you turn into a leader.

01:44:48.000 Okay, so he's already killed a man and he's left.

01:44:51.000 Egypt because of it. 0.99

01:44:52.000 So now he's in this land called Midian and he goes there and he chases some ruffians away from a well for these two girls who are drawing water. 0.97

01:45:00.000 And they go and tell their father and he says to them, bring this young man home to have dinner.

01:45:04.000 So he does and then he gets married to them.

01:45:06.000 Then he becomes a shepherd.

01:45:08.000 And this is crucial because the shepherd's an image that runs through the biblical corpus, right?

01:45:14.000 Shepherds at that time lived by themselves in the wilderness on their wits.

01:45:20.000 And they kept the wolves and the lions at bay with primitive weapons.

01:45:24.000 So these were tough guys.

01:45:26.000 And they cared for the most vulnerable.

01:45:29.000 So a shepherd is an image of optimized ordinary masculinity.

01:45:34.000 You take care of yourself, you can keep the monsters at bay, and you attend to the most vulnerable.

01:45:39.000 So Moses has got that.

01:45:40.000 He's a shepherd.

01:45:41.000 He's a successful shepherd.

01:45:42.000 So now he's out there one day wandering around Mount Sinai.

01:45:45.000 And Mount Sinai, or Mount Horeb, that's the place where heaven and...

01:45:49.000 Earth touch.

01:45:50.000 So that's where the messengers of the divine descend to earth.

01:45:54.000 And so he's out there and something attracts his attention, makes him curious.

01:45:59.000 That's the burning bush.

01:46:01.000 It's not a forest fire.

01:46:02.000 It's not something you can't ignore.

01:46:04.000 It's something alive because that's a bush.

01:46:06.000 A tree is a symbol of life.

01:46:08.000 And it's burning because things that are...

01:46:11.000 Alive burn, right?

01:46:12.000 That's metabolism. 0.78

01:46:13.000 An intensification of that, like a psychedelic intensification of that, that's what the burning bush is.

01:46:19.000 And that's what glimmers to Moses.

01:46:22.000 And he steps off the beaten track to investigate what drives his curiosity.

01:46:27.000 And so then he goes off the beaten track and he starts to delve deeply into the mysteries of the burning bush.

01:46:34.000 And at some point he realizes he's on sacred ground.

01:46:37.000 He takes off his shoes.

01:46:38.000 That's a symbol of...

01:46:40.000 Willingness to transform identity, because shoes signify identity, right?

01:46:44.000 They're part of your costume, your working man's costume. 0.97

01:46:47.000 And so then he continues to commune with the burning bush.

01:46:50.000 He gets deeper and deeper into something.

01:46:52.000 He makes himself a specialist by following what compels him and delving deeply into it.

01:46:58.000 And when he gets deep enough into it, to the bottom, the voice of eternity speaks to him and says, you're now no longer who you were.

01:47:07.000 You're now a leader.

01:47:08.000 You have to go back to your people. 1.00

01:47:10.000 You have to stand up against the tyrant.

01:47:12.000 You have to tell the slaves that they need to leave their tyranny and their slavery and serve me in the wilderness.

01:47:20.000 And you have to do that now.

01:47:22.000 And Moses says, I can't because I can't speak.

01:47:25.000 I'm slow of tongue.

01:47:26.000 And God says, basically, that's your problem.

01:47:29.000 And with me on your side, we can sort that out.

01:47:31.000 And don't you have a brother, Aaron?

01:47:34.000 And can't he speak?

01:47:35.000 It's like...

01:47:36.000 Bring him along for the ride.

01:47:38.000 And so that's when Moses becomes a leader, right?

01:47:41.000 And so that's the pattern.

01:47:42.000 It's like ordinary masculinity.

01:47:45.000 Those are the dwarves that Snow White serves before she meets the prince, by the way.

01:47:50.000 The ordinary masculine, right? 0.96

01:47:52.000 So, but...

01:47:54.000 And those dwarves protect her from the evil queen that wants to suppress her by feeding her a poisoned apple. 0.98

01:48:00.000 So Snow White has to learn to serve the ordinary man before she can find a prince. 1.00

01:48:05.000 Yeah, something Disney missed completely in the last story.

01:48:09.000 So, what's the pattern?

01:48:13.000 Well, you discipline yourself so you become a shepherd, and then you follow what compels you off the path.

01:48:21.000 Then you take it seriously and get to the bottom of it, and then that transforms you.

01:48:26.000 And thus transformed, you can face the tyrant, you can specify the promised land properly, and you can lead the slaves across chaos and blood, that's the Red Sea, and then through the desert.

01:48:41.000 Right? And so you said, you know, you said two things.

01:48:43.000 You said that the good fighters have learned to integrate their civilized side.

01:48:51.000 Otherwise, they don't get to be great, and that they continue the pathway of self-improvement, right?

01:48:56.000 They continue to pursue what's calling to them.

01:48:59.000 That's another definition of God in the Old Testament, by the way.

01:49:02.000 What calls to you?

01:49:04.000 That's the burning bush.

01:49:05.000 The spirit of the burning bush is what entices you, what grabs your interest, what attracts your curiosity.

01:49:11.000 And that's identical.

01:49:13.000 The biblical claim is that's the same thing as the spirit of adventure.

01:49:16.000 It's the same thing that speaks to Noah.

01:49:19.000 Noah's a good man.

01:49:21.000 And a voice comes to him and says, all hell's about to break loose.

01:49:25.000 And he believes his intuition because he's a good man and can rely on himself.

01:49:30.000 So he makes the ark, right?

01:49:33.000 And he brings his family aboard and culture and nature and reestablishes humanity.

01:49:39.000 That's the pathway of the leader too.

01:49:41.000 What is your take on, there's a university in Jerusalem that...

01:49:45.000 Had this theory that the burning bush was the acacia bush.

01:49:49.000 Acacia bush is rich in DMT.

01:49:52.000 Look, I think that hallucinogens strip memory from perception.

01:49:58.000 So you see the world in all its blazing glory.

01:50:02.000 Huxley figured that out with the doors of perception.

01:50:05.000 That is apparently what psychedelics do, psychopharmacologically.

01:50:09.000 They mimic a high-stress condition.

01:50:12.000 And they strip memory from perception so that you can return to the source and revitalize your perceptions.

01:50:20.000 Right? So, the probability that there's some overlap between that and the burning bush is high.

01:50:26.000 It's high, so to speak.

01:50:27.000 High. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:50:30.000 Yeah. So, I'll tell you one more thing, one more story, okay?

01:50:36.000 If that's alright with you.

01:50:37.000 So, something else I figured out that I tried on Brett.

01:50:41.000 So, imagine, you could take the hedonistic path, you could take the power path, you could take the nihilistic path.

01:50:50.000 And then you might say, well, that's the only three options.

01:50:53.000 That's kind of what the postmodernists believe, that's kind of what the nihilists and the postmodernists, the Nietzscheans believe.

01:51:01.000 Power, hedonism, nihilism, those are your options.

01:51:04.000 There's no uniting narrative above that.

01:51:07.000 Okay, so, in the...

01:51:10.000 Story of Cain and Abel.

01:51:13.000 Two patterns are laid out that are different than that.

01:51:17.000 One is Cain's pattern.

01:51:19.000 One's Abel's pattern.

01:51:20.000 So these are the first two people that live in the world, right?

01:51:24.000 Because Adam and Eve are made by God.

01:51:25.000 They're in paradise or were.

01:51:27.000 Cain and Abel are the first two people.

01:51:30.000 So Abel brings his best to the table.

01:51:35.000 So he takes the best animal.

01:51:37.000 In his flock and he takes the best cut and the best part of the cut and he offers that to God.

01:51:43.000 So he literally brings his best to the table.

01:51:45.000 That's what he sacrifices.

01:51:47.000 And Cain doesn't.

01:51:48.000 So Cain's sacrifices are rejected by God.

01:51:53.000 And God tells him, if you brought your best to the table, you'd be accepted.

01:51:58.000 And Cain gets bitter and resentful and invites temptation in to possess him.

01:52:05.000 So that spirit of resentment possesses him and then he becomes murderous.

01:52:08.000 He kills his brother and his descendants become genocidal and then you have the flood.

01:52:15.000 And so that pattern of sacrifice is established right at the beginning of the biblical texts.

01:52:21.000 Abel versus Cain.

01:52:22.000 Abel brings the best to the table and that satisfies God.

01:52:27.000 So one question.

01:52:28.000 God actually asks Cain this when Cain complains.

01:52:31.000 He says, if you...

01:52:33.000 Wouldn't you be accepted if you were doing your best?

01:52:36.000 So that's a question of conscience, right?

01:52:38.000 If you're in extreme misery and your life is hollow and empty and you're bitter and resentful, it's like, you're bringing your best to the table?

01:52:47.000 Because the covenant proclaims that if you did, you'd be accepted.

01:52:52.000 Yeah, clearly.

01:52:54.000 Okay, so now the question is, what constitutes?

01:52:57.000 Now you know you have to sacrifice.

01:53:00.000 So sacrifice becomes the foundation of the state, not power, not hedonism, it's sacrifice.

01:53:06.000 And then that motif is played out through the whole Bible, and that's what culminates in the New Testament, right?

01:53:12.000 Total sacrifice as the foundation of the community.

01:53:15.000 And that's right.

01:53:17.000 And, like, I don't know what sense to make out of the metaphysics of the religious realm, you know, because that's beyond me and everyone.

01:53:25.000 The world's a strange place, and we could leave it at that.

01:53:31.000 See, Christ is the exemplar of voluntary self-sacrifice, right?

01:53:35.000 Won't turn to power, won't deviate from his course, faces the worst of all possible deaths, descends to hell itself.

01:53:42.000 That's the pattern of life lived with no reserve.

01:53:46.000 And that's the foundation of the free state.

01:53:48.000 That's right.

01:53:49.000 I tried that on Brett.

01:53:51.000 He told me when we first met on the tour that he felt that the biblical narratives were...

01:53:58.000 Anachronistic, you know, that they were written in a time that was no longer relevant to us.

01:54:04.000 But he decided by the end of our three days together that if you got to the core of the message, it's alive, right?

01:54:13.000 That's the living spirit inside the bush, you might say.

01:54:16.000 And that it's...

01:54:17.000 So here's even the weirder thing.

01:54:19.000 So imagine, it's pretty obvious that Christ is a symbol of voluntary self-sacrifice.

01:54:25.000 It doesn't really come as a shock to anyone.

01:54:28.000 But the weird thing is, you know, we put that symbol at the center of our churches and at the centers of our towns for 2,000 years, not really knowing why.

01:54:38.000 And the reason is that voluntary self-sacrifice is the foundation of the integrated psyche and the stable, productive, and abundant community.

01:54:48.000 And that's right.

01:54:50.000 It's right.

01:54:51.000 And so...

01:54:54.000 Well, it's been exciting to have the opportunity over the last nine months to go talk to people about that, because I've talked to about 150,000 people, I guess, public lectures.

01:55:06.000 That, to me, is one of the most fascinating aspects of Christianity, regardless of whether or not you think logically these things took place.

01:55:16.000 Logically, these stories are a completely accurate depiction.

01:55:21.000 If you follow the principles, it's incredibly beneficial to your spiritual life as a person.

01:55:30.000 Well, that's a kind of interesting proof, isn't it?

01:55:32.000 Because it means that...

01:55:34.000 There's truth in it.

01:55:35.000 Well, there's certainly the spirit that makes...

01:55:39.000 What would you say?

01:55:41.000 The spirit of truth that makes life more abundant.

01:55:44.000 That's exactly right.

01:55:45.000 And these are weird stories because the way they're true is very sophisticated.

01:55:50.000 They're true always.

01:55:52.000 That's different than a story about the past.

01:55:55.000 The truest story is always happening.

01:55:58.000 The story of Moses is exactly like that.

01:56:00.000 The pattern of leadership development that's embedded in the Exodus story, that is how leaders develop, if they're real leaders.

01:56:08.000 And their temptation is power, but that's not their motivation.

01:56:13.000 That's their temptation.

01:56:15.000 That's a very important distinction.

01:56:16.000 And that's always the case with leaders.

01:56:18.000 And if they fall prey to the temptation of power, no matter what their accomplishments, they're not going to complete the task.

01:56:25.000 And so there's a cool element at the end of that story, too.

01:56:29.000 You know, when Moses, just before Moses dies, he picks a scout from each tribe, 12 tribes, and he sends them to Canaan, which is the future.

01:56:39.000 That's a good way of thinking about it.

01:56:40.000 It's the potential place we could reside where everything was.

01:56:44.000 Worked out.

01:56:45.000 The land of milk and honey.

01:56:47.000 He sends 12 scouts there.

01:56:49.000 And 10 of them come back and say, they tell a fear story.

01:56:54.000 Say, it's insurmountable, the challenges that lie ahead of us.

01:56:58.000 There's no way we can master this.

01:57:00.000 We should have never crossed the desert.

01:57:01.000 We should have stayed under the thumbs of the tyrants.

01:57:04.000 We should have never tried to be anything more than slaves.

01:57:06.000 Because now we're doomed.

01:57:08.000 And two of them say, no, if we maintain our upward Our orientation and our covenant.

01:57:16.000 Nothing can stand in our way.

01:57:18.000 We can make the deserts bloom.

01:57:20.000 Moses dies.

01:57:21.000 Those two scouts.

01:57:22.000 And so do all the Israelites who are convinced by the unfaithful scouts. 0.84

01:57:27.000 And the scouts die.

01:57:29.000 And the two people who go on to the Promised Land are Caleb and Joshua.

01:57:34.000 And they lead the Israelites, the faithful Israelites, into the Promised Land.

01:57:38.000 Those are the people who have the courage to confront the future in a faithful and...

01:57:44.000 What would you say?

01:57:45.000 Faithful, hopeful, and courageous manner.

01:57:47.000 They're the inheritors of the future.

01:57:50.000 Caleb, Joshua.

01:57:51.000 Joshua's name is the same as Christ's name.

01:57:54.000 It's the same name.

01:57:56.000 And that's not fluke, right?

01:57:58.000 That's one of those echoes or precursors to the story.

01:58:03.000 There's an ethos that leads you into the promised land.

01:58:06.000 And what's the ethos?

01:58:07.000 The spirit of voluntary self-sacrifice.

01:58:12.000 You give up something for a social relationship.

01:58:14.000 Of course.

01:58:15.000 You give up being primary.

01:58:17.000 Right? You do the same thing at the social level.

01:58:20.000 And when you do that, it integrates you and it sets the world straight.

01:58:25.000 And that's built into the biblical story.

01:58:27.000 It's right at its core.

01:58:30.000 Pause that thought.

01:58:31.000 I'm going to use the restroom.

01:58:32.000 We'll come back.

01:58:33.000 We're back.

01:58:35.000 So it's great fun to explain these things to people on the tour because it sorts them out.

01:58:40.000 Well, it's very fascinating.

01:58:42.000 Yeah, that's for sure.

01:58:43.000 And the fact that these stories have existed for so long is so interesting.

01:58:48.000 You know, that's where it gets really weird.

01:58:50.000 Yeah. Well, they've adapted to the contours of our memory and our imagination.

01:58:55.000 Yeah. So you find them compelling and they stick to your memory.

01:58:59.000 So I'm going to tell you what else I'm up to.

01:59:01.000 What are you up to?

01:59:02.000 Well, the first thing I want to do is thank you.

01:59:06.000 So we launched Peterson Academy in September.

01:59:11.000 We talked about it, and it's been a stunning success.

01:59:15.000 We have 40,000 students.

01:59:17.000 That's amazing.

01:59:18.000 We think we're the most rapidly capitalized.

01:59:21.000 We're one of the most rapidly capitalized companies ever, especially with our degree of investment, because we run a lean show.

01:59:29.000 We have great professors.

01:59:31.000 We have a great social media site.

01:59:34.000 We had to kick 10 people off it.

01:59:36.000 We have 15,000 active users.

01:59:38.000 Ten people were dragging it sideways.

01:59:40.000 What were they doing?

01:59:41.000 They were causing trouble, Joe.

01:59:44.000 They were causing trouble.

01:59:45.000 Well, or immature, or didn't know how to conduct themselves.

01:59:51.000 That's all it took.

01:59:52.000 And now everyone is sharing ideas.

01:59:54.000 And Mick, my daughter, and her husband, they keep a close eye on this.

01:59:58.000 That's great.

02:00:00.000 We have secured funding to the point where we...

02:00:05.000 Are dropping the price from $5.99 to $3.99 a year as of today.

02:00:11.000 Right. So that should make it accessible to a lot more people.

02:00:15.000 And we're even more convinced than we were that this has to be the future of higher education.

02:00:21.000 So when we were doing our due diligence for the fundraising, we discovered that 40% of courses at university are now online.

02:00:31.000 And we've investigated some of those courses.

02:00:33.000 Many of them are PowerPoint presentations, and that's all.

02:00:37.000 And so that's the university experience for full tuition.

02:00:41.000 And we literally have the best professors in the world and unmatched production quality.

02:00:49.000 And we're filling in the social element, too, because we want people to be able to meet.

02:00:55.000 The social media platform does that.

02:00:57.000 It's a very positive platform.

02:00:58.000 We've already had our first couple announce themselves, which was quite fun.

02:01:02.000 And we're going to do in-person events.

02:01:03.000 Our first plan, we're going to do a cruise.

02:01:07.000 Can I ask you this?

02:01:08.000 Yeah. What has your journey been like to go from relative obscurity as a professor in Toronto to becoming this person who you are now,

02:01:25.000 sort of a worldwide educator outside of the standard system of academia, But also subject to intense international scrutiny, character distortions,

02:01:41.000 complete... What they've done to change your position.

02:01:51.000 You are probably the most intentionally misrepresented person, I know.

02:01:56.000 Intentionally misrepresented.

02:01:57.000 You see it with a lot of other people, too.

02:01:59.000 But with you, it's...

02:02:04.000 It's malicious.

02:02:05.000 You know, I've seen it.

02:02:07.000 But yet you have this desire inside of you to spread information and to educate.

02:02:17.000 And learn.

02:02:18.000 I'm learning on the stage.

02:02:19.000 What has it been like?

02:02:21.000 How old were you when I first met you?

02:02:24.000 It was like 2015, right?

02:02:27.000 Somewhere around that?

02:02:27.000 10 years ago, 53. You were just...

02:02:33.000 You were just encountering notoriety, just encountering attention and all the trappings that come with that.

02:02:43.000 What has that been like, navigating that?

02:02:46.000 It's very unusual that a person becomes world famous at 50. For ideas.

02:02:52.000 Yes. Yeah, that's for sure.

02:02:56.000 Well, first...

02:02:59.000 I mean, it was exhilarating and painful to begin with.

02:03:02.000 It was exhilarating because I knew the ideas that I was teaching at Harvard and at the U of T were revolutionary.

02:03:07.000 I could never believe, I never could get over the fact that they allowed me to teach.

02:03:12.000 But the students loved my courses and I was very diligent, you know, so I stayed in my traces, so to speak.

02:03:19.000 And I wasn't a revolutionary for the sake of revolutionary argumentation.

02:03:23.000 And I was teaching about totalitarianism.

02:03:26.000 Great evil, and so it was hard to make a moral case against me, and no one was really inclined to, you know.

02:03:31.000 They were happy with my teaching, and as were the students.

02:03:34.000 And I had a clinical practice, which was quite extensive.

02:03:37.000 But then when I first started to lecture much more broadly, we rented a theatre, and I did a series on Genesis.

02:03:46.000 That was the first foray out into the public space, and it sold out.

02:03:51.000 Well, that was when I started to encounter pain, I would say, at a...

02:03:56.000 Crowd level.

02:03:57.000 And that was rough, Joe.

02:03:59.000 Because I'm pretty good at getting people to open up to me right away.

02:04:02.000 I mean, I learned that as a clinician, you know.

02:04:04.000 And to have thousands of people do that, that's pretty rough.

02:04:08.000 Now, it was a good thing, like all things considered, because people would tell me how miserable they were, how discouraged, and how sidelined, and often how bitter, how addicted, how imprisoned.

02:04:23.000 Rough stories.

02:04:24.000 And then...

02:04:25.000 Tell me how much they had improved.

02:04:27.000 But that was also, there was a tragic element to that because it didn't take that much, you know, to tap them into the right orientation.

02:04:38.000 And so there was sadness in that to see all these people who were demoralized, thousands of them, and then to see how that could be rectified and yet hadn't been.

02:04:53.000 That was rough.

02:04:54.000 I'm sure that was what...

02:04:56.000 There's many things that made me sick.

02:04:58.000 I had a pre-existing condition that was autoimmune.

02:05:01.000 But seeing all that, that was pretty rough.

02:05:07.000 But knowing that it was possible to rectify it, well, there's nothing better than that.

02:05:15.000 Like, you know, wherever I go now, it's so interesting.

02:05:19.000 Wherever I go now, I'm among friends.

02:05:23.000 It's very strange.

02:05:24.000 And I have security people and they keep an eye on me and all the interactions I have with people are positive.

02:05:30.000 And I always take time for people, you know, because, well, if they've been positively impacted by something that I've read or said and they're trying to get their lives together, it's like, how about we encourage that?

02:05:44.000 Right? Because more of that would be real good.

02:05:46.000 And if we had enough of that, then more of that would be real good and real necessary.

02:05:51.000 Yeah. And good for everyone, too.

02:05:54.000 Hey, absolutely.

02:05:55.000 Well, that's that abundance.

02:05:57.000 It's like, you got your act together?

02:05:58.000 Great. That'll be real good for you.

02:06:00.000 Be great for your girlfriend.

02:06:01.000 Be great for your kids.

02:06:03.000 Be great for your community.

02:06:04.000 Absolutely. And it's, well, you know, the Christian ethos, the emphasis is redemption one soul at a time.

02:06:11.000 Well, I'm a psychologist, you know.

02:06:13.000 That's what I think.

02:06:14.000 One person at a time.

02:06:17.000 Because... Everyone's connected way more intensely than we think.

02:06:21.000 And so there's no such thing as a trivial person.

02:06:23.000 And there's no such thing as a trivial sin or a trivial accomplishment for that matter.

02:06:28.000 And so, and I know that.

02:06:30.000 I know that.

02:06:31.000 I studied totalitarianism for a long time.

02:06:34.000 I know how it comes about.

02:06:36.000 It comes about when everyone lies.

02:06:38.000 It's about everything.

02:06:40.000 All the time.

02:06:41.000 And the way you stop that is by not lying.

02:06:44.000 And that's how it stops.

02:06:46.000 So what's it like?

02:06:47.000 Painful and insanely exhilarating at the same time.

02:06:52.000 And, you know, the balance has shifted over the years to the exhilaration.

02:06:57.000 Once I got on top of it, once I got my health under control, which required pretty stringent discipline.

02:07:04.000 Like, I eat steak.

02:07:06.000 And when I deviate from that, things start to fall apart around me pretty quick.

02:07:10.000 Isn't it crazy that that alone is polarizing?

02:07:14.000 You're eating all the steak.

02:07:15.000 You're contributing to the downfall of civilization.

02:07:18.000 You're destroying the environment.

02:07:19.000 Don't you know that cows are the number one producer of...

02:07:22.000 I know, I know.

02:07:24.000 We've got to stop eating meat, Jordan.

02:07:26.000 We eat too much meat.

02:07:27.000 That's why the world's...

02:07:28.000 Meanwhile, China's opening up coal plants every week.

02:07:32.000 It's hilarious.

02:07:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:07:34.000 Yeah, well, that's just another...

02:07:35.000 Okay, so it's also surreal.

02:07:37.000 And that's one element.

02:07:39.000 The diet thing, just alone, not just alone, is surreal.

02:07:42.000 I mean, my daughter was so sick, and now she's great.

02:07:47.000 Isn't it crazy?

02:07:48.000 It's crazy.

02:07:49.000 Well, my wife is on this carnivore diet too, and like, it's been unbelievably good for her. 0.95

02:07:54.000 It's unbelievably good for almost everybody that I've ever met.

02:07:57.000 That's what's really nuts.

02:07:58.000 Well, it's crazy.

02:08:00.000 For the mind.

02:08:01.000 Oh, yeah.

02:08:02.000 Well, your brain likes to run on ketones, as it turns out.

02:08:05.000 Yeah, it really does.

02:08:06.000 I felt when I, you know, I've done it back and forth, but when I'm on it strictly, you know, like when I go back to it, one of the things that I notice immediately is I have like an extra gear intellectually.

02:08:17.000 My brain works better.

02:08:18.000 Yeah, more stamina.

02:08:19.000 We're going to run a study and IQ test people.

02:08:22.000 Really? Yeah, because we don't know, but yeah, there's two studies planned.

02:08:27.000 One on...

02:08:28.000 One group will be people with immunological disorders, try carnivore, keto, and ordinary diet, random assignation.

02:08:36.000 But we're also going to give them personality and IQ tests.

02:08:39.000 You should do it with junk food.

02:08:42.000 I'd be fascinated to see people go the right way first and then try junk food.

02:08:50.000 It'd be good to do an ABAB design.

02:08:52.000 That's what that is.

02:08:53.000 What was that?

02:08:53.000 Super Size Me?

02:08:54.000 Yeah. Yeah, that documentary.

02:08:56.000 Yeah. Well, it's clear.

02:08:57.000 It's absolutely crystal clear that we eat too many carbohydrates.

02:09:01.000 Like the food pyramid is upside down.

02:09:03.000 Yes, clearly.

02:09:04.000 And then on top of that, environmental pollutants and all the other issues that we have with additives.

02:09:09.000 And this, to me, is one of the more exciting things about this current administration is the Make America Healthy Again movement.

02:09:17.000 And, you know, eliminate fluoride from the water.

02:09:19.000 Eliminate all these.

02:09:20.000 I think there's a new list of ingredients that...

02:09:24.000 Most of them are banned in Europe and a lot of other places and are legal in America.

02:09:28.000 It's insanity and it doesn't make any sense.

02:09:31.000 And oftentimes the arguments don't even make sense as to why they continue to produce it because they produce the same products for Canada, for instance, where Canada has better laws when it comes to additives.

02:09:43.000 So they produce the ones in Canada where they don't have the negative, dangerous additives.

02:09:50.000 And yet they still make this argument that...

02:09:52.000 To force them to stop doing that in America will cause great economic harm.

02:09:57.000 Well, it's clearly the case that we have an obesity, diabetes, and mental health epidemic.

02:10:04.000 And the probability that all of those are associated with insulin resistance and immunological reactions seems to me to be certain.

02:10:13.000 And probably herbicides and pesticides as well.

02:10:15.000 Yeah, well, there's a cascading...

02:10:19.000 There's a cascade of differential effects.

02:10:21.000 Undoubtedly, some people are more sensitive to those things as well.

02:10:24.000 I was watching a documentary that I sent to Jamie about China.

02:10:29.000 China innovates at such a level, such a fascinating level, that because they're integrated with the government, which I'm not saying is a good thing, but because of that, sort of unlimited growth, because the growth is designed for the state.

02:10:47.000 Everyone's all involved in it.

02:10:50.000 One of the things they're doing is integrating rice farms with crayfish farms.

02:10:54.000 So they've figured out a way to stop using herbicides and pesticides and instead farm these two things together.

02:11:04.000 So they have the rice and then they have the crayfish.

02:11:07.000 The crayfish feed off the excess material from the rice.

02:11:13.000 But also keep the water nitrogen and carbon rich.

02:11:17.000 And so the rice is more nutrient rich.

02:11:20.000 And so soil is more nutrient rich.

02:11:23.000 And then they're bringing in fish and crabs as well.

02:11:27.000 So they're harvesting all of these.

02:11:30.000 Different things that people eat along with the rice all in together and they've created you know sort of that like what they've done with regenerative agriculture like white oaks pastures and you know polyface farms and different regenerative agriculture Establishments in America,

02:11:46.000 but they're doing it with rice to avoid using herbicides and pesticides and Well, hopefully the new administration under Kennedy will be able to figure out how to prioritize these things so some of them happen.

02:12:00.000 My concern, I suppose, it's not my concern, a concern is that they'll try to do too many things at once, you know, and that's why I focused when we talked earlier today about insulin resistance.

02:12:12.000 Right, but there's so much to try to change.

02:12:14.000 Well, that's it, and you can't change at all.

02:12:17.000 There's going to be resistance on all fronts.

02:12:20.000 But one person at a time, as you're saying, like when you have this message and you talk to people about things that you've done that have made you healthier, that message resonates and then one person at a time tries that, their friends join in, and the next thing you know,

02:12:36.000 you've got...

02:12:37.000 A large percentage of healthy people that are listening to you, which is amazing.

02:12:42.000 Well, I've seen that again at the shows.

02:12:44.000 Like, one of the things that's also changed across the years is that the proportion of people who are in trouble at my shows is decreasing.

02:12:53.000 And partly that's because many of the guys who come, generally with their wife and often with a child, have put themselves together.

02:13:04.000 Yes. And then they're happy about that and they tell me the story and so that's great.

02:13:09.000 Like, there's nothing better than traveling all around the world and having people come up to you and say that they weren't doing so well and that their lives are way better now and thank you.

02:13:20.000 Yes, that's beautiful.

02:13:21.000 That's a good deal.

02:13:23.000 That's a great deal.

02:13:24.000 Those are my favorite stories that I hear from people that listen to the podcast.

02:13:28.000 They're like, I've listened to the podcast, I lost 60 pounds, I started working hard every day, I'm much healthier, I'm drinking a lot of water, I'm taking electrolytes and vitamins, and just my mental health has improved because of the daily exercise, I'm a different person, I'm on the right path.

02:13:42.000 Yeah, well, so that's very interesting too, the fact that that's actually, you said those are the best stories that you can hear.

02:13:49.000 I love those stories.

02:13:49.000 Well, it shows you something about...

02:13:52.000 Non-hedonistic motivation.

02:13:54.000 It's like, imagine what you could have if you could have anything you wanted.

02:13:59.000 Well, maybe, you know, your imagination would drift first to the hedonistic side or maybe the power side, for that matter.

02:14:05.000 It's like, no!

02:14:06.000 How about you can wander around anywhere in the world, some isolated field with a castle on it in Serbia, and people that you've never seen will come up to you and say, I was having a pretty...

02:14:19.000 Damn dismal time of it, all things considered.

02:14:21.000 And I listened to what you wrote and said.

02:14:23.000 And in consequence, I put my life together.

02:14:26.000 And their wife is standing beside them going, yeah, he's really in a lot better shape.

02:14:30.000 Thank you a lot.

02:14:31.000 Yeah. No, those are great stories.

02:14:34.000 That's a good deal.

02:14:34.000 That's a great deal.

02:14:35.000 Yeah. So when you ask what it's like, well, it's like a lot of that.

02:14:40.000 Yeah. You know, and...

02:14:41.000 Do you feel a burden?

02:14:43.000 Do you feel like a sense of responsibility that is at times overwhelming because of this responsibility that you have?

02:14:49.000 I think I felt more for a good while the pain of it.

02:14:52.000 It wasn't the responsibility.

02:14:56.000 Well, the intense connection you have to these people that are...

02:14:59.000 Well, the responsibility makes you careful.

02:15:05.000 You know, how careful are you?

02:15:07.000 Be careful.

02:15:09.000 Yeah. Yeah.

02:15:10.000 Why? Because...

02:15:12.000 You have a responsibility.

02:15:13.000 Yeah. But that's okay.

02:15:15.000 Yeah. Well, that's part of that additional sacrifice.

02:15:18.000 It seems natural to me.

02:15:22.000 Okay. What do you mean?

02:15:25.000 That with, you know, the concept with great power comes great responsibility.

02:15:30.000 It just seems normal.

02:15:32.000 Right. Well, it has to be the case, right?

02:15:33.000 I mean, as your field of opportunity expands, if your field of responsibility doesn't expand, you'll collapse.

02:15:41.000 And you pay a higher price for stupidity at larger scales of opportunity.

02:15:46.000 Obviously. And so get your act together.

02:15:49.000 And is that a burden?

02:15:54.000 Voluntarily undertaking responsibility isn't a burden.

02:15:57.000 It's an opportunity.

02:15:59.000 That doesn't mean it's not easy, but easy.

02:16:05.000 I don't know what easy is.

02:16:07.000 What's easy?

02:16:09.000 Pointless misery?

02:16:10.000 That's not easy.

02:16:12.000 Right. A life with no meaning is one of the hardest things.

02:16:16.000 Absolutely. Right.

02:16:17.000 So I guess the reason you pick up your cross and walk uphill is because that's the best thing you can do, all things considered.

02:16:24.000 I mean, that's why Christ says that his burden is light, that his yoke is light.

02:16:28.000 It's like, huh, you're supposed to take up your cross and walk uphill towards death and hell, let's say, but that's light.

02:16:38.000 Okay, why?

02:16:41.000 Because there's no better pathway than voluntarily undertaken responsibility.

02:16:45.000 Well, definitely.

02:16:48.000 That's a psychologically impeccable statement.

02:16:52.000 There's no difference, statistically speaking, between thinking about yourself and being miserable.

02:16:57.000 It's self-consciousness.

02:16:58.000 They're the same thing.

02:17:00.000 Which is a giant problem with social media.

02:17:04.000 Terrible problem.

02:17:05.000 Accelerant to misery.

02:17:07.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:17:07.000 Sure. As soon as you're focused on...

02:17:09.000 You, the narrow you now.

02:17:12.000 You're self-conscious.

02:17:13.000 You stumble on stage.

02:17:14.000 You can't play your musical instrument.

02:17:15.000 You can't ride a bike.

02:17:16.000 You can't box.

02:17:18.000 You're not in the flow.

02:17:19.000 Why? Because you're not serving the right thing.

02:17:22.000 Like, when I go on stage, I remember, first of all, I have music at the beginning of my shows.

02:17:28.000 I've got a great musician.

02:17:29.000 What are you playing?

02:17:29.000 Well, I don't play it.

02:17:32.000 I have a musician from Cambridge.

02:17:34.000 My son sometimes plays for us, which is really fun.

02:17:38.000 So it's not songs, it's just music with no lyrics?

02:17:40.000 When Julian plays, he plays country music on a guitar and a couple of his own compositions.

02:17:49.000 So it's been fun to have him along, because he's quite good at it, and so that's really great.

02:17:54.000 But the music, Dave, the guy who plays for me, he starts out...

02:18:01.000 Plays classical gas.

02:18:03.000 He's kind of like a one-man band.

02:18:04.000 He plays classical guitar, but he's got electronic instruments around him.

02:18:08.000 And he can fill up the theater or the stadium.

02:18:11.000 He likes playing in stadiums.

02:18:13.000 And he ends with Inception on electric guitar, which is pretty hardcore rock, all things considered.

02:18:19.000 And it gets everybody focused.

02:18:22.000 And then when I'm lecturing, I have a question.

02:18:27.000 And I know that's a quest.

02:18:29.000 And it's real.

02:18:31.000 Because I pick something important that I would like the answer to, and then I explore that with the audience.

02:18:36.000 And I'm not self-conscious.

02:18:38.000 And the reason for that is, it's not about me.

02:18:42.000 It's about trying to answer the question.

02:18:47.000 And even more importantly, trying to get the damn question right to begin with, right?

02:18:51.000 Because you've got to get the question right, man.

02:18:53.000 That's the crucial issue.

02:18:54.000 Then the words come to you.

02:18:56.000 What did I figure out?

02:18:58.000 The spirit of your aim is what answers your prayers.

02:19:03.000 There's a brutal idea for you.

02:19:06.000 Right, right, right.

02:19:08.000 So if you want to defeat your wife, the spirit of power will tell you what to say. 0.89

02:19:13.000 Right. Yeah, right is right, man.

02:19:16.000 Right. There's a terrifying thing to know.

02:19:19.000 So if you aim upward high enough, then the spirit of upward aim.

02:19:24.000 Reveals itself to you in words.

02:19:26.000 That's right.

02:19:27.000 In words and intent, and that's exactly right.

02:19:30.000 So it's great.

02:19:32.000 Like, it's a lot.

02:19:34.000 You know?

02:19:35.000 You know that it's a lot.

02:19:39.000 Yeah. I had a different journey, though.

02:19:41.000 My journey was like a slow drip of fame, which I think was very healthy.

02:19:46.000 It's a good way to do it so you could adjust to it.

02:19:49.000 Yeah, well, you also...

02:19:50.000 You also mostly escaped from reputation savaging, right?

02:19:54.000 I mean, you've had...

02:19:55.000 I'm not saying completely because people have gone after you, but I got a real flurry of...

02:20:03.000 You were a lightning rod.

02:20:09.000 You were the patriarchy.

02:20:10.000 You were the one to point to that was going to reinforce these established norms that are not supportive of the minimalized and marginalized communities, right? 0.60

02:20:23.000 You were cruelty, right?

02:20:26.000 You were the cruel white man.

02:20:30.000 That guy to call you?

02:20:31.000 Mean. Mean white man.

02:20:34.000 Which is, by the way, you've already lost.

02:20:38.000 You're throwing pejoratives out there like that in a debate.

02:20:42.000 That's the thing that I was talking about.

02:20:44.000 When someone tries to establish insults and get you on your back, it's offense.

02:20:50.000 It's offense to...

02:20:52.000 Put you in a defensive position so that you cannot do your best.

02:20:56.000 Yeah, well, it's also to pull the rug out from underneath you so you collapse your reputation permanently and that redounds to the person's credit.

02:21:04.000 Also, it's to establish a narrative to the audience that's listening to you.

02:21:07.000 Now you have to look at this person under this light because I've done so eloquently, described him as his thing.

02:21:13.000 And then he will be defensive about that because he doesn't lie.

02:21:17.000 And then you look even more like that thing.

02:21:19.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:21:20.000 It's a very underhanded way of progressing.

02:21:23.000 Which is, I don't like that.

02:21:26.000 Not only do I not like that, I don't think that's necessary.

02:21:31.000 I don't think it's necessary as the person doing it.

02:21:34.000 I certainly don't think it's necessary to respond to that.

02:21:37.000 I don't think it does anyone any good.

02:21:39.000 I don't think it's good for society as a whole.

02:21:43.000 And it's definitely not good for exploring ideas.

02:21:46.000 I wonder what you do with the psychopaths.

02:21:49.000 It's also you're trying to win versus trying to express your perspective.

02:21:57.000 With as much clarity and as much thought as possible, you're trying to do your very best to examine these things from a selfless perspective, from a truly objective perspective.

02:22:12.000 Well, it's a truly quest perspective, I think.

02:22:16.000 So it's not exactly objective.

02:22:18.000 It's more like, because you don't have access to that.

02:22:21.000 But what you can say is...

02:22:23.000 Well, I'm genuinely puzzled about this.

02:22:25.000 Yes. And I would genuinely like to search for the answer.

02:22:28.000 Right. Wouldn't it be ideal if you were having a debate where someone said something that you agreed with and you're like,"Wow, he's got a really good point." And you, instead of refuting that person, exploring that with them, which is one of the reasons I don't like debates per se.

02:22:42.000 Yeah, I don't like debates either.

02:22:43.000 I like conversations.

02:22:44.000 Yeah. Because in conversations, if you don't have a predetermined...

02:22:50.000 Narrative that you want to enforce.

02:22:52.000 Instead, you have your thoughts, you have your ideas, and you're not married to them.

02:22:58.000 And these are just thoughts.

02:22:59.000 And you put them out there, and then you can encounter a very unique human being who has a way of describing and thinking about things that will open your mind to new possibilities, which is what we all should strive for.

02:23:19.000 Illuminated. To learn from new things.

02:23:22.000 But yet, we close those off because that is a point that your enemy is trying to score.

02:23:28.000 And you will not give them that point.

02:23:29.000 Well, it's also because people aren't really very well versed in how to do this, you know?

02:23:34.000 Right. So, one of the huge advantages of your podcast, and of the podcast world in general, I would say, is that you model how to do that.

02:23:42.000 You know, it's like...

02:23:44.000 And there's an intense religious ethos under that.

02:23:49.000 So, okay, so what does it mean?

02:23:51.000 You start without pride in humility.

02:23:53.000 It's like, what the hell do I know?

02:23:55.000 Or maybe more precisely, there's probably some things I could still learn that would be beneficial.

02:24:03.000 You note your interest in a topic and your desire to know more.

02:24:08.000 So that's the quest element.

02:24:10.000 It's like you're after something, right?

02:24:11.000 You don't know what it is, but it's more development.

02:24:14.000 It's more wisdom.

02:24:15.000 It's more information, right?

02:24:17.000 And you're not sure where it's going to be.

02:24:19.000 Okay, so now you're the sort of person who could learn and that has something to learn, and now you have a quest in mind.

02:24:25.000 Okay, so now that's the frame for your actions.

02:24:28.000 Well, if you're talking to someone who's also doing that, well, then those are the words that come.

02:24:35.000 Yeah. Right?

02:24:36.000 And they come.

02:24:38.000 In a compelling way to you and to the participant, and in a way that's compelling enough so that they compel other people.

02:24:45.000 That's the Holy Spirit, by the way.

02:24:47.000 That's that phenomenon from a religious perspective.

02:24:50.000 That's exactly what it is.

02:24:52.000 Because that's like you sit before the talk and rehearse what words you're going to say.

02:24:56.000 They just appear.

02:24:58.000 No, I never do.

02:24:59.000 I don't think I should.

02:25:01.000 No! Well, sometimes it's a problem because you breach subjects that you weren't really prepared to talk about, and you might not have a fully formed idea about it.

02:25:11.000 Yeah. You know, you're not, oh, if I thought about that, what would I have said differently, you know?

02:25:16.000 Yeah, but you kind of have to find that out along the way.

02:25:19.000 Yes, right.

02:25:20.000 You know, and that way you're, you know, you have a right to stumble over your own ignorance.

02:25:24.000 For sure.

02:25:25.000 How the hell do you know it's there before you reveal it?

02:25:27.000 Well, not only that, I don't think the audience truly trusts you unless they feel authenticity in that quest, as it were, that desire to try to understand, like, what is it that you believe and why do you believe what you believe?

02:25:43.000 And where did you come to these conclusions?

02:25:45.000 How? What journey did you go on?

02:25:48.000 What ideas did you dismiss?

02:25:51.000 What ideas were holding you back?

02:25:53.000 What ideas did you realize were just a personal weakness that you were protecting yourself from reality?

02:26:00.000 Protecting yourself from the reality of bad choices and past mistakes.

02:26:05.000 What are you doing to stop that from entering into your current state of mind?

02:26:12.000 And that kind of thinking, people can mirror.

02:26:17.000 And they can listen to you talk about these things and say, I do that.

02:26:21.000 Okay. I've got to stop doing that.

02:26:24.000 This is how I can clarify the way I view things.

02:26:30.000 And this is why I'm tripping myself up because I keep trying to win conversations.

02:26:34.000 I keep trying to be right all the time, which is impossible.

02:26:39.000 Especially as a human.

02:26:41.000 It's elevating your status in the conversation as a consequence of abstract victory.

02:26:48.000 Instead of increasing your wisdom and enhancing your reputation as a sojourner towards the truth.

02:26:56.000 Yes. And it's especially difficult for young people because you don't have enough life experience to have made these mistakes and correct them.

02:27:06.000 And learned and grown and have the humility to recognize that process.

02:27:13.000 Right. Instead, you see other people that are successful or whatever it is, and you want that right now.

02:27:18.000 Yes. And that's wrong, too, because you don't want that right now.

02:27:22.000 You want to learn how to have that.

02:27:23.000 You want to win the lottery, but you don't.

02:27:25.000 No, definitely not.

02:27:27.000 You don't, right?

02:27:27.000 Because everybody wants to win the lottery.

02:27:29.000 That's one of the worst things that can happen to you.

02:27:31.000 Well, and what do young people have?

02:27:34.000 They can listen.

02:27:36.000 And they can ask questions.

02:27:37.000 Right. And, you know, they say when the student is ready, the teacher will come.

02:27:42.000 Well, how does that play out in the world?

02:27:45.000 Well, if you admit to your ignorance and you ask genuine stupid questions, you will rapidly encounter people who are more than happy to share their wisdom with you.

02:27:58.000 Like, people love having mentees, right?

02:28:02.000 They like to be able to share their...

02:28:04.000 Wisdom and their experience.

02:28:06.000 Unfortunately, even if they don't have it.

02:28:08.000 Yeah. That's where it becomes a problem.

02:28:10.000 Yeah. The false prophet. 0.87

02:28:11.000 Yeah, well, that's right.

02:28:13.000 Well, that's a problem.

02:28:13.000 The false guru.

02:28:14.000 Yeah, right.

02:28:15.000 The people that don't have the answers to their own lives, so they try to give other people answers to their lives.

02:28:19.000 Yeah. Well, that's also the psychopath problem.

02:28:22.000 Yes. You know, what about the people who are feigning competence?

02:28:27.000 Right. Yeah, right.

02:28:28.000 Ooh, that's a real problem.

02:28:29.000 Yeah, it's a real problem.

02:28:31.000 It's a deadly problem, and it's massively elevated on social media.

02:28:36.000 Yes. Well, it used to be a gigantic problem in martial arts, the fake martial artists.

02:28:42.000 There was a lot of them.

02:28:43.000 Sure. Yeah.

02:28:45.000 That's the eternal parasite problem.

02:28:50.000 Yes. Yeah, so organisms build up a storehouse of value.

02:28:56.000 A carcass, let's say.

02:28:57.000 Like a whale carcass, for example.

02:29:00.000 And inevitably the parasites move in to invade it.

02:29:05.000 Inevitably. And that's so consistent a pattern that sex evolved to stop it. 0.98

02:29:12.000 How so?

02:29:14.000 Well, parasites can reproduce faster than their hosts because they're simpler.

02:29:20.000 And so they can swarm the host. 0.88

02:29:24.000 Quite rapidly, especially if the host clones itself, because the host then stays identical physiologically across the generations, so the parasites can optimize to...

02:29:35.000 Colonize the host and that's the end of it.

02:29:37.000 If you reproduce sexually, you mix your genes up.

02:29:41.000 You pay a price.

02:29:42.000 You lose 50% of your specific genetic heritage.

02:29:45.000 But the advantage is you stay ahead of the parasites.

02:29:48.000 So sex evolved to outwit the parasites.

02:29:51.000 And a huge part of what we're seeing around us, and this is probably a consequence at the lowest level, base level, we've had a phenomenal boom in wealth since World War II.

02:30:02.000 Phenomenal. We stored wealth everywhere, like in Harvard at a $53 billion endowment.

02:30:10.000 Well, the parasites found the wealth everywhere.

02:30:13.000 And they've invaded like mad.

02:30:15.000 That's a great example of it.

02:30:17.000 Parasites and academia are a great example of what you're talking about.

02:30:20.000 Media? Unearned.

02:30:21.000 Legacy media?

02:30:22.000 Science is being invaded that way.

02:30:25.000 The political, this is a major problem.

02:30:29.000 How do you protect yourself against the parasitical exploiters?

02:30:32.000 Well, you could recognize parasitical behavior, right?

02:30:35.000 When everything gets chalked off to racism and white supremacy, when they start using these pejoratives, they start throwing those around for everything.

02:30:42.000 You know, that's one of the ways you recognize.

02:30:44.000 Yeah, that's right.

02:30:45.000 You're a parasite.

02:30:46.000 You're not really doing science.

02:30:48.000 You're not really doing academics.

02:30:51.000 Well, one of the hallmarks of identification from the clinical literature...

02:30:57.000 For the cluster B types, and so they have a parasitical element, histrionic, narcissistic, psychopathic, criminal, right?

02:31:04.000 That's cluster B. They use false claims of victimization to manipulate.

02:31:09.000 Yes. And so this is a particularly pernicious pathway because they parasitize empathy.

02:31:17.000 Right. And the left is unbelievably susceptible to that because the left is full of empathic people.

02:31:22.000 Right. Those who parasitize empathy have a field day on the left.

02:31:26.000 Right, right.

02:31:27.000 Because the left is generally thought to be more educated, more compassionate, kinder, looking out for marginalized people.

02:31:35.000 That's part of the ethics of it all.

02:31:36.000 The ethic is pretty straightforward.

02:31:38.000 Anything that cries is a baby.

02:31:41.000 It's like, no, some things that cry are monsters.

02:31:44.000 Ooh. Right, right.

02:31:46.000 Well, let's take the case of Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish Prime Minister, the previous Scottish Prime Minister.

02:31:53.000 Any man who wants to can be a woman. 0.95

02:31:55.000 It's like, okay.

02:31:58.000 Any man.

02:32:00.000 You mean any man, do you?

02:32:03.000 Yeah. Have you encountered the nightmare men?

02:32:07.000 Oh, they don't exist.

02:32:08.000 They're all victims.

02:32:09.000 You just bloody well wait till you encounter one.

02:32:12.000 You'll change your story very rapidly.

02:32:14.000 And for the naive and sheltered empaths of the radical left...

02:32:19.000 They're either psychopaths, so they're wolves in cheap clothing, or they're people that are so naive that the, what would you say, Red Riding Hood's grandmother can definitely have his way with them.

02:32:32.000 Yes, that's literally something that I use as an example in my Netflix special.

02:32:37.000 I said, I think there are people that feel like they're trapped in a woman's body.

02:32:42.000 And then there's also people that are out of their fucking mind.

02:32:45.000 They're crazy.

02:32:46.000 Oh, they're not just crazy.

02:32:48.000 But what I pointed out all throughout history, when you wanted to make a killer in a movie scarier, you put him in a dress.

02:32:54.000 Like Norman Bates in Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, and I used the Big Bad Wolf.

02:32:59.000 I'm like, it's literally a wolf dressed up like a woman.

02:33:02.000 Like, that's literally what it is.

02:33:04.000 And they've somehow or another...

02:33:07.000 Completely abandoned this one aspect of masculinity that's one of the more terrifying is the predatory pervert.

02:33:18.000 And they've given the predatory pervert a privileged position.

02:33:23.000 Right, right.

02:33:25.000 And that's...

02:33:26.000 That's Eve's sin, by the way. 1.00

02:33:28.000 One of the craziest things about it is they've completely abandoned...

02:33:35.000 The idea of the pedophile and then the monster and the sexual pervert, then the attacker, the assaulter, the person who, when you give a guy, you say, all you have to do is say you're a woman, now you have access to whatever women's spaces, all the women's spaces, you could victimize them,

02:33:51.000 you could fight them, you could beat them in sports, you could dominate them in all games.

02:33:57.000 Bizarre. Bizarre that no one's caught on to that.

02:34:00.000 That's for sure.

02:34:01.000 That's the weirder, that's the more cult-like and even, you could say, religious aspect of leftist thinking.

02:34:09.000 It's an original sin.

02:34:10.000 Eve clutches the serpent to her breast.

02:34:13.000 It's like, that's a serpent.

02:34:16.000 It's poison.

02:34:17.000 You don't get to love it.

02:34:19.000 Right. It's a monster.

02:34:21.000 Right. It's a guy wearing a dress with an erection in the women's room. 0.57

02:34:24.000 Yeah, right.

02:34:25.000 Or worse.

02:34:27.000 Yeah, or worse.

02:34:27.000 Or worse.

02:34:28.000 Or a lot worse.

02:34:29.000 Well, right.

02:34:30.000 And, you know, there are no shortage of...

02:34:32.000 Naive people who've never really encountered a monster and have no imagination for it. 0.98

02:34:36.000 But there's also people that are willing to justify the monster's behavior because the monster is a part of a protected class now.

02:34:42.000 Yeah, well, that's part of that.

02:34:43.000 Which is crazy.

02:34:44.000 The cluster B types use proclamation of victimization to parasitize. 0.99

02:34:50.000 That's part of their clinical pathology.

02:34:52.000 And they're so ubiquitous.

02:34:55.000 And they're so common.

02:34:56.000 That's what's really crazy.

02:34:58.000 And why is it that academia is overwhelmed by people like this?

02:35:03.000 Is it because it's vulnerable to parasites?

02:35:07.000 Sure, why not?

02:35:08.000 It was a storehouse of unguarded value.

02:35:12.000 Without any religious principles.

02:35:14.000 Yeah, there's that too.

02:35:16.000 And with no real gatekeepers.

02:35:20.000 The parasite problem is a very deep problem.

02:35:25.000 So I can even, maybe I can even give you an example of that.

02:35:28.000 This is a hard one, but I'll try.

02:35:31.000 In the Pinocchio movie, this also happens in Jonah, the story of Jonah.

02:35:35.000 Remember, Geppetto ends up in a whale.

02:35:38.000 It's like, what the hell?

02:35:39.000 There's no explanation for that in the story.

02:35:41.000 It's like he's out looking for Pinocchio and now he's in a whale.

02:35:44.000 Well, a whale is a giant carcass, right?

02:35:47.000 And so when something dies, its spirit, what would you say?

02:35:51.000 Its spirit is then in...

02:35:53.000 Embedded in a carcass.

02:35:54.000 That's a good way of thinking about it.

02:35:55.000 That's why Pinocchio has to go into the belly of the whale to free Geppetto and finish his transformation.

02:36:02.000 Is that when things deteriorate, right, you have these carcasses lying around with their dead spirits.

02:36:09.000 The spirit of what gave rise to them is still inside there.

02:36:12.000 And the job is to go into the carcass and to revitalize the spirit that produced it and not to parasitize it.

02:36:21.000 Right. Boy, I don't know how you got that out of Pinocchio and the Whale.

02:36:26.000 I'm trying to follow you on this one.

02:36:27.000 I'm like, wow.

02:36:29.000 Geppetto ends up languishing in the whale.

02:36:31.000 Right. So imagine that there's a spirit in the universities that gave rise to these great, great storehouses of value.

02:36:38.000 And that spirit has disintegrated and now it's inside the...

02:36:42.000 The storehouse.

02:36:43.000 That's a good way of thinking about it.

02:36:44.000 It's inside the storehouse.

02:36:45.000 Your job as someone who wants to become real is to go into the storehouses of value that have been bequeathed to us by the past and to discover and revitalize the spirit that gave rise to them.

02:36:57.000 Not to parasitize them.

02:36:58.000 And when they parasitize them...

02:37:00.000 They strip them to their bones and there's nothing left.

02:37:02.000 And they do it, obviously, right?

02:37:04.000 There's plagiarism.

02:37:06.000 There's all these different...

02:37:06.000 And all that stuff...

02:37:07.000 False scientific papers.

02:37:09.000 Yes. And all that stuff gets...

02:37:10.000 Everything gets gamed.

02:37:11.000 All that gets swept under the rug because the people that are doing it are part of the protected class.

02:37:15.000 Yeah. So they protect the parasites.

02:37:17.000 Like, this is my lamprey.

02:37:19.000 Yeah. Like, don't...

02:37:20.000 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

02:37:21.000 This is my baby.

02:37:22.000 Like the woman from Harvard. 0.82

02:37:23.000 They fired her, but they gave her an equal-paying job. 0.99

02:37:25.000 It could also be, Joe...

02:37:27.000 Might as well get in trouble for this, too.

02:37:29.000 Let's go.

02:37:30.000 Well... Because women are more agreeable, they're more prone to manipulation by psychopaths because their primary ethos is nurturing. 1.00

02:37:47.000 For a naive woman, every victim is a baby. 1.00

02:37:52.000 It's like, fine, 90% of them are victims.

02:37:55.000 You could even say that about criminals.

02:37:57.000 You go to a run-of-the-mill prison.

02:37:59.000 And there's going to be people in there and you heard their lives, you think, oh my god, no wonder.

02:38:03.000 And then there's another core group that's like, oh, I see.

02:38:08.000 I see who you are.

02:38:14.000 If I saw inside your skull for five seconds, I'd have post-traumatic stress disorder.

02:38:19.000 I'd never recover.

02:38:20.000 Those people don't exist.

02:38:22.000 It's like, oh, yes, they exist.

02:38:26.000 They exist.

02:38:27.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:38:27.000 And they're very good at crying like infants.

02:38:33.000 Yeah. Right.

02:38:34.000 And then the mothers, the naive mothers, come flooding out. 0.94

02:38:37.000 The women dominated the universities from the 1960s onward. 0.99

02:38:41.000 It's like, in come the parasites.

02:38:45.000 And they're enabled.

02:38:46.000 And what are they enabled by?

02:38:48.000 One of the more fascinating things to me is when parasites are confronted and they laugh.

02:38:52.000 Like one of the things about academic parasites, when you challenge their beliefs...

02:38:58.000 That's contempt.

02:38:59.000 You don't.

02:39:00.000 You don't know what you're talking about.

02:39:02.000 I saw this with the anti-Semitism on campus thing when these women were confronted by these statements like death to the Jews on campus and whether or not this is hate speech.

02:39:17.000 And I saw it with, I believe it was Josh Howley.

02:39:22.000 He was saying some women can give birth and some men can give birth as well.

02:39:30.000 Some men have periods.

02:39:32.000 I guess this line of questioning is very transphobic and opens people up to violence.

02:39:39.000 With a laugh.

02:39:40.000 With a laugh and a smile.

02:39:42.000 A diminishing of your position by mockery.

02:39:45.000 It's contempt, yeah.

02:39:46.000 What they're saying doesn't make any fucking sense to anybody rational.

02:39:49.000 But they're so...

02:39:51.000 They're so embedded in this system that they really believe that they have the kind of control over Congress that they have over their classmates.

02:40:02.000 This is like standard behavior for them, mocking and dismissing other ideas that are counter to theirs.

02:40:08.000 Right. Well, and there's plenty of reward for that disseminated in the universities.

02:40:13.000 Yes. And so that's part of their...

02:40:14.000 How do you fix that?

02:40:16.000 With Peterson Academy.

02:40:17.000 No, I'm serious, man.

02:40:19.000 I believe you.

02:40:20.000 It's not like I'm thrilled about the fact that Harvard is having a war with Donald Trump.

02:40:25.000 And I'm less thrilled with the fact that I hope Donald Trump wins.

02:40:29.000 I worked at Harvard.

02:40:31.000 It was a great place.

02:40:32.000 I'm not happy at all that these institutions have become what they've become.

02:40:36.000 And if I could see a way forward to revitalizing them, then...

02:40:42.000 But what are you going to do?

02:40:44.000 Like, the administration took over the universities and parasitized...

02:40:48.000 The tuition fees and the tax dollars.

02:40:51.000 Then the woke mob parasitized the administration.

02:40:55.000 And here we are.

02:40:57.000 Now, what are you going to do about that?

02:40:59.000 All these tenured professors who are progressive, and they're way less progressive than the administrators, you're going to fix that?

02:41:06.000 How? How?

02:41:08.000 Even in principle.

02:41:09.000 I don't see it how.

02:41:11.000 So what we decided to do, we've been working on this for 10 years, is like, well, what do universities do?

02:41:18.000 Well, they educate.

02:41:20.000 They offer lectures.

02:41:21.000 They have a place where people can congregate.

02:41:25.000 They help people mature.

02:41:27.000 They explain the world.

02:41:28.000 They encourage people to aim up.

02:41:30.000 They teach people to write.

02:41:32.000 My son runs this essay app.

02:41:34.000 We're trying to teach kids to write.

02:41:35.000 We're integrating that with Peterson Academy so they can learn to think.

02:41:40.000 That's our solution.

02:41:44.000 Yeah. Will it work?

02:41:47.000 The world's a pretty dynamic place.

02:41:49.000 It's working real well at the moment.

02:41:52.000 Well, people need some sort of an alternative to that system.

02:41:57.000 If you recognize what that system is, especially if you're participating in it and you're opposed to all of it and you're trapped in it and it's vital to your success that you accept some of it, how else can you get through?

02:42:12.000 How can you get this degree and maintain some level of sovereignty over your mind and your ideas?

02:42:18.000 It's a horrible trap.

02:42:21.000 And I've met a lot of people that I think are very rational, reasonable people that get at least some of that stuck in their head.

02:42:29.000 Oh, yeah.

02:42:30.000 Well, when we did some research trying to see what predicted politically correct authoritarianism, it was the last piece of research I did before my research lab.

02:42:39.000 Cease to be a viable entity, let's say.

02:42:45.000 So politically correct authoritarianism was that hyper-compassionate leftism, but conjoined with willingness to use force to put the doctrines forward, force and fear.

02:42:57.000 So it's tyrannical compassion.

02:42:59.000 That's exactly that.

02:43:01.000 What are the predictors?

02:43:02.000 Low verbal intelligence.

02:43:03.000 That's the first one.

02:43:04.000 Second one was being female. 1.00

02:43:06.000 The third one was having a feminine temperament. 1.00

02:43:08.000 The fourth one was ever having taken even one politically correct course.

02:43:13.000 Wow. Yeah, right.

02:43:15.000 And so I've thought that through for a long time.

02:43:17.000 It's like, well, what's the female relationship? 1.00

02:43:22.000 Because that's a crucial one.

02:43:24.000 The female-dominated disciplines are the most woke by far. 0.92

02:43:28.000 Why? I think it's because of that basic ethos of compassion.

02:43:33.000 All who cry are babies.

02:43:36.000 Well, look, that's the right default for women. 1.00

02:43:39.000 You know, like, wise women. 0.98

02:43:41.000 My wife is one of these women. 1.00

02:43:42.000 She was a very good mother.

02:43:44.000 She never thought adult men were babies.

02:43:48.000 Like, one of the things that's quite striking about my wife is that if you're a useless man, she doesn't feel sorry for you.

02:43:55.000 You're not a baby.

02:43:56.000 Now, she's really good at taking care of babies. 1.00

02:43:59.000 And so, she got to be, she's...

02:44:02.000 She's discriminating in her empathy.

02:44:05.000 And we're in a situation now where people think that indiscriminate empathy is a virtue.

02:44:10.000 That's Eve's sin. 1.00

02:44:12.000 See, Eve, literally, Eve wants to put the feminine ethos at the top of the hierarchy of value. 0.98

02:44:19.000 That replaces God.

02:44:21.000 Right? And that causes the fall.

02:44:24.000 And then Adam, he's such a cuck.

02:44:26.000 That's exactly it.

02:44:28.000 Is that he goes along with her.

02:44:29.000 He doesn't stand up and tell her that maybe she shouldn't be listening to poisonous serpents.

02:44:33.000 He doesn't.

02:44:34.000 He consumes with her what she delivers so that she'll be his friend.

02:44:40.000 Because you know how useful men like that are.

02:44:42.000 And then when the fall happens, he complains to God that God made Eve and cursed him with her.

02:44:50.000 That's the story.

02:44:51.000 So it's not just women. 0.99

02:44:53.000 And we've got to get this straight.

02:44:55.000 Women with their drive towards indiscriminate compassion so that even the serpents are their children. 1.00

02:45:00.000 It's men, too, who won't say.

02:45:03.000 They always say, yes, dear, whatever you want.

02:45:06.000 Weak men.

02:45:07.000 Weak men who don't help the women set boundaries.

02:45:11.000 Now, you've got to do that as a man.

02:45:14.000 When you and your wife have a baby, for the first nine months, Every time the baby cries, it's right.

02:45:22.000 Right? You respond to a baby's cries as if it's right 100% of the time.

02:45:28.000 Because human infants are so dependent and utterly unable to fend for themselves.

02:45:34.000 So that sets up a very powerful feminine dynamic. 1.00

02:45:37.000 It's like, if it cries, take care of it.

02:45:40.000 Okay, so what are the men for?

02:45:42.000 It's like, if it cries, take care of it.

02:45:45.000 Accept that.

02:45:47.000 That's a false cry.

02:45:52.000 they're nine or ten months old, right?

02:45:54.000 Yes, of course.

02:45:55.000 And so you differentiate.

02:45:56.000 It's like, oh, no, that's not a baby.

02:45:58.000 That's a snake.

02:45:59.000 Well, are you sure it's not a baby?

02:46:01.000 It's like, nope, nope, snake, for sure.

02:46:03.000 Snake, poisonous snake, in fact.

02:46:06.000 Right. Well, I'm feeling pretty sorry for it.

02:46:07.000 It's like, save your compassion for the truly needy and leave the snakes to me.

02:46:14.000 Right. Almost, I don't want to say too successful and empathetic and there's too much abundance that you have more of this crying?

02:46:30.000 Look, no, but you have more parasitical behavior.

02:46:35.000 Right. Why?

02:46:36.000 Well, everyone's got pretty comfortable because we've been in a high-trust society for a long time.

02:46:40.000 It's like, oh, everybody's trustworthy.

02:46:42.000 It's like, no.

02:46:43.000 A few people in a few countries are trustworthy most of the time, and that's really hard.

02:46:48.000 Right. And there's stringent preconditions.

02:46:51.000 Right. So everyone's trustworthy.

02:46:52.000 And now there's all these piles of wealth lying around everywhere.

02:46:56.000 It's like a parasite dream, especially when it's unguarded.

02:47:02.000 So it's enabled by the women and unguarded by the men. 0.95

02:47:06.000 And both are at fault, right?

02:47:07.000 And you see that in the Genesis account, too.

02:47:10.000 It's like Eve...

02:47:11.000 Clutches the serpent to her breast, but Adam fails to help her distinguish.

02:47:15.000 Plenty of these parasitic men as well.

02:47:17.000 Oh, yeah.

02:47:18.000 Well, they're the worst.

02:47:20.000 The worst men cry victim and look for sympathy from women.

02:47:23.000 There was a famous mass murderer, no, a serial killer who did that.

02:47:27.000 The lawyer, Bundy, Ted Bundy.

02:47:30.000 You know what his trick was?

02:47:31.000 He had a VW, if I remember correctly.

02:47:34.000 He had a cast that he could take on and off.

02:47:37.000 So he put his hood up.

02:47:38.000 Maybe it wasn't a VW.

02:47:40.000 He put his hood up because his car didn't work.

02:47:42.000 And he did it around places where he knew there were young women. 0.86

02:47:46.000 And then he enticed them to stop because, well, poor Ted, because he's crippled and his car doesn't work.

02:47:53.000 And then, haha, and then, well, and then the woman learned very painfully the difference between a monster and a baby.

02:48:01.000 Right. Brutal.

02:48:03.000 He was a bad guy.

02:48:04.000 There are some bad people.

02:48:06.000 And a fair number of them like to dress in women's clothing, let's say. 0.98

02:48:12.000 Yeah. Yeah.

02:48:13.000 That's really uncomfortable for people if they have this idea that's embedded in their consciousness about what's going on to accept that reality.

02:48:23.000 Of course.

02:48:24.000 In fact, accepting that when that reality is thrust upon you unawares, you develop post-traumatic stress disorder, right?

02:48:31.000 Because it's naive people who encounter malevolence develop PTSD.

02:48:36.000 That's the pathway.

02:48:37.000 So if you want to make your children susceptible to PTSD, like all these kids that are triggered by everything, make them extremely naive and then let them encounter malevolence.

02:48:49.000 Right? Because you're supposed to teach them to handle serpents.

02:48:53.000 Right? To identify them and handle them.

02:48:55.000 And that means they have to learn about the nature of the world and the girls to differentiate between snakes and babies. 0.88

02:49:04.000 Right? Right, and babies and men. 0.97

02:49:07.000 And the man who worms his way into your dreams because he's a dependent infant, he's a snake. 0.98

02:49:14.000 And your sympathy is wasted on him.

02:49:17.000 Yes, there certainly are.

02:49:18.000 Man, I tell you, those riots that used to gather around me, you know, that was mostly 2017, before I stopped speaking at universities mostly.

02:49:28.000 The women were pretty bad. 1.00

02:49:30.000 Harpy, city, man.

02:49:32.000 And this self-righteous, feminine, Toxic compassion, just screeching at the top of its lungs. 0.98

02:49:38.000 But the men that were with them, oh my God, I didn't want to be within three feet of them.

02:49:44.000 You know, it's like, I'll be your friend.

02:49:46.000 You know, you see those people on the net talking to children.

02:49:51.000 I'll be your friend.

02:49:52.000 When your family abandons you, I'm here for you.

02:49:55.000 You know, they don't understand.

02:49:57.000 Not like me.

02:49:58.000 We could be closer than anybody has been with you.

02:50:04.000 That just barely scrapes the surface of awful.

02:50:07.000 Like awful is a long, long ways down.

02:50:11.000 So part of what's happened in the universities, and it's a terrible thing to say, well, there's a lot of things.

02:50:21.000 Storehouse of wealth, radical increase in the number of students served, radical feminization of the institutions.

02:50:35.000 And weakness on the part of the men who should have been guardian of the gates.

02:50:38.000 All of that.

02:50:39.000 And is it repairable?

02:50:41.000 I don't think so.

02:50:43.000 I think once the parasites have the corpse, what are you going to do?

02:50:48.000 Are you going to bring Lazarus back from the dead?

02:50:51.000 You know, I don't think so.

02:50:53.000 I think it's time for something new.

02:50:54.000 You need academic dewormer.

02:50:56.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:50:58.000 Well, that's what critical thinking was supposed to be, Joe.

02:51:01.000 So you think it needs to...

02:51:04.000 So something needs to emerge, like your academy, as an alternative.

02:51:09.000 Well, the thing is, it already is emerging, right?

02:51:12.000 Because the universities, of course they're going to do this.

02:51:15.000 As they spiral downward, they're going to turn to cost-cutting.

02:51:19.000 Well, they're not going to cut the administration, obviously, because they make the decisions about who's going to be cut.

02:51:25.000 So they're going to turn to low-cost alternatives to having courses.

02:51:30.000 And so they're already doing that.

02:51:32.000 Let's put our courses online.

02:51:34.000 Well, fair enough, except they're terrible.

02:51:37.000 They're terrible.

02:51:39.000 We got the best professors and the best production quality.

02:51:43.000 And you've designed it for online versus just having a PowerPoint.

02:51:48.000 100%. Right.

02:51:49.000 We have a plan mapped out.

02:51:51.000 We'll have the full equivalent of a four-year distribution of courses.

02:51:59.000 We'll have that within...

02:52:01.000 We think two years, something like that.

02:52:03.000 Four new courses a month at the moment.

02:52:05.000 We're putting out 32 hours of original content a month.

02:52:08.000 It's very...

02:52:09.000 Well, people can go look.

02:52:11.000 It looks great.

02:52:13.000 And that's because it's great.

02:52:15.000 Michaela and her husband, they're unbelievably picky about the professors and about everything.

02:52:22.000 They watch the social media.

02:52:24.000 They watch the look.

02:52:25.000 They watch the images.

02:52:26.000 They watch the ads.

02:52:28.000 You know, we're trying to do everything.

02:52:31.000 100%. And then we're trying to make it as inexpensive as possible.

02:52:35.000 Soon we're raising money because we want to translate it into multiple languages, because wouldn't it be lovely to offer that to the developing world?

02:52:42.000 Sure. With free market economics instead of Marxist economics, so that people could learn to be entrepreneurs.

02:52:49.000 That'd be great for Africa, especially if we could get energy prices down.

02:52:53.000 Then maybe everybody could be rich.

02:52:56.000 And not just materially rich, right?

02:52:58.000 Because that's not enough.

02:52:59.000 If you're materially rich and you're spiritually poor, your money just serves to destroy you and fast.

02:53:06.000 So that's not wealth.

02:53:08.000 Right. And yeah, right.

02:53:10.000 You know that.

02:53:10.000 You've met people that that's happened to.

02:53:12.000 Oh yeah, a lot.

02:53:13.000 Money is not the cure for poverty.

02:53:15.000 No, you're naive if you think that.

02:53:17.000 No. It's not the cure for being discontent either.

02:53:22.000 But it does offer you freedom if you use it correctly.

02:53:25.000 And opportunity.

02:53:26.000 And opportunity.

02:53:27.000 So it can give you some relief from stress, which can give you some kind of happiness.

02:53:33.000 But it's not the goal.

02:53:35.000 No. No.

02:53:36.000 Well, it has to be put in an ethical framework or it'll just...

02:53:40.000 Look, money's opportunity.

02:53:41.000 That's a way of thinking about it.

02:53:43.000 And if you're going to the devil and you have money, you just go to the devil faster.

02:53:47.000 I saw that lots of times in my clinical practice.

02:53:49.000 And, you know, maybe if you're aiming upward, then money can be a force multiplier.

02:53:55.000 And it can be.

02:53:56.000 You can establish a solid institution that provides mentorship and opportunity for people.

02:54:05.000 And actually, that's the most fun to do that.

02:54:08.000 It's by far the most fun to do that, to make something of genuine value.

02:54:13.000 Why wouldn't you do that?

02:54:14.000 Only if you were cynical and unable, why not make something that works?

02:54:19.000 That's much more entertaining, all things considered.

02:54:24.000 And so, and we're trying to do this with ARC, and it's going real well, you know.

02:54:27.000 And you were very helpful there, too.

02:54:29.000 You know, that podcast that we did, there were lots of reasons that the climate apocalypse narrative has been falling radically apart.

02:54:35.000 But that podcast that you and I did was definitely one of them.

02:54:39.000 You know, and I've interviewed a lot of good scientists who, they're not climate skeptics.

02:54:44.000 You know, that's a stupid term, and Lomberg's a good example of that.

02:54:48.000 It is.

02:54:48.000 Climate denier is right up there with vaccine denier.

02:54:51.000 That's such a manipulative phrase.

02:54:53.000 Yeah, it's like, oh, you're like the Nazis who object to Jews being baked.

02:54:57.000 That's your argument, is it?

02:54:58.000 Really? That's your argument, you scum rat.

02:55:01.000 You're going to use that as a moral lever.

02:55:04.000 That's your level of ethos.

02:55:07.000 That's your argumentation.

02:55:08.000 You're going to take the worst slur you can possibly imagine.

02:55:11.000 And you're going to use it to devastate someone's reputation publicly.

02:55:14.000 Because you don't have a leg to stand on.

02:55:17.000 Because you're the kind of tyrant who uses fear to monger power.

02:55:21.000 That's you.

02:55:22.000 There's a psychological interpretation of the climate apocalypse scandal.

02:55:26.000 And it's killing.

02:55:30.000 It's destroying Germany. 0.77

02:55:33.000 It's destroying the UK.

02:55:36.000 Didn't Germany, like...

02:55:37.000 Didn't they shut down a bunch of their nuclear plants? 0.79

02:55:40.000 Yeah. Yeah, and they replaced them with leg night coal.

02:55:44.000 Right, the dirtiest burning coal.

02:55:46.000 So they're in a situation where they pollute more for more unstable energy that's delivered by tyrants.

02:55:54.000 While outsourcing their industry to China, it's a very bad idea, right?

02:56:00.000 Who's building coal plants at a rate that...

02:56:03.000 It's so fast that everything the West does to ameliorate carbon is utterly irrelevant.

02:56:07.000 Utterly irrelevant.

02:56:09.000 Yeah, and that's an uncomfortable truth that these climate cultists just don't address.

02:56:17.000 They won't even entertain any information contrary to the narrative.

02:56:22.000 They won't even let it in.

02:56:24.000 Of course not, because it upsets the game.

02:56:26.000 Most of the people that are involved in the game don't even understand the game.

02:56:31.000 They don't even understand what's really, not just at stake, but the actual facts that they're arguing for.

02:56:38.000 Well, Carney's a good example of this in Canada, to return to that.

02:56:41.000 Is he going to win?

02:56:46.000 It seems like he's...

02:56:47.000 The polls certainly indicate that, and maybe with a majority government.

02:56:51.000 And I can see why.

02:56:54.000 Canadians were accustomed to having everything go pretty well.

02:56:57.000 And we could be morally superior to you Americans, because that was also fun. 0.97

02:57:00.000 And we'll never forego that opportunity.

02:57:03.000 And Trump has provided it in spades in the last month.

02:57:06.000 So we look at Carney, and we don't pay any attention to politics, and we certainly don't read his goddamn book.

02:57:12.000 And so we see someone who looks like a banker from the 1990s, when everything was just fine in Canada, and Canadians were just as rich as Americans, and the whole country was stable and peaceful.

02:57:21.000 And we think, well, you know, we kind of made a mistake on Justin.

02:57:24.000 Turned out he was a little incompetent, a little narcissistic.

02:57:27.000 And maybe we shouldn't have voted for him just because he legalized marijuana, because that's actually what brought him into power the first time.

02:57:33.000 And so we kind of made a mistake.

02:57:34.000 But now, look, we've learned, and we're not going to be fooled by narcissistic pretenders.

02:57:40.000 And Mark Carney used to be Governor Bank.

02:57:41.000 Bank of England, you know, and that's pretty good.

02:57:43.000 That's a pretty good resume and it certainly looks like that.

02:57:48.000 And yet, he believes that 75% of the fossil fuels in the world should be left in the ground and that there's nothing that should guide your purchasing decision by force other than decarbonization.

02:58:00.000 But it seemed to me, at least from an observer from afar, that Pierre was gaining steam and it looked like he was going to win.

02:58:09.000 And they seem to have taken the wind right out of his sails.

02:58:12.000 Well, two things happened.

02:58:13.000 Trudeau resigned.

02:58:15.000 Oh yeah, the Liberals were headed for extinction.

02:58:18.000 It was going to be the worst defeat of a governing party in Canada ever.

02:58:23.000 They might have lost their official party status.

02:58:26.000 So they were done.

02:58:28.000 Well, they pivoted, brought in Carney, who'd been advising Trudeau.

02:58:34.000 Put himself up as an outsider, a competent outsider, a lot of private experience in the private domain, you know, a steady hand at the helm.

02:58:44.000 It's like, you were Trudeau's economic advisor for 10 years.

02:58:48.000 10 years.

02:58:50.000 And there's going to be more of the same under you.

02:58:52.000 And now you're pretending to be an industrialist, even though you're one of the leaders, the world's leading authorities on DEI, ESG, and net zero.

02:59:01.000 That's Mark Carney.

02:59:03.000 All you have to do is read his book, which people don't, of course, because it's a book.

02:59:07.000 The first three chapters will do the trick.

02:59:10.000 Either he's decided that every single thing he ever believed was wrong, right to the core, and hasn't apologized or let anyone know that, and now he's actually Mr. Industry, which is how he's presenting himself to Canadians, or he believes what he's always believed.

02:59:28.000 Or he's a wolf wearing grandma's dress.

02:59:32.000 Yeah, he's a benevolent wolf.

02:59:34.000 Well, that's why the wolf wears grandma's dress, isn't it?

02:59:37.000 It's like, there's no one nicer than me.

02:59:39.000 So how does Canada correct course?

02:59:44.000 Well, people either correct course by waking up or by experiencing severe pain.

02:59:50.000 And it looks to me like we've chosen the severe pain route.

02:59:54.000 You know?

02:59:56.000 We already make 60 cents.

02:59:59.000 We already produce 60 cents to every dollar you Americans produce, even though we were at parity 10 years ago.

03:00:05.000 And so after four more years of carny, we could easily have that down to 50 cents.

03:00:12.000 Spiraling housing prices, a lot of social instability in Canada, especially since after October 7th.

03:00:19.000 All my Jewish friends in Toronto are terrified.

03:00:22.000 That's not fun.

03:00:23.000 I don't like seeing that.

03:00:25.000 No, it's awful.

03:00:27.000 It's awful.

03:00:28.000 And all those psychopaths who've been parading around their moral virtues since October 7th, they're plenty emboldened.

03:00:36.000 Plenty. Plenty.

03:00:38.000 And I'll give you a little example of Canada.

03:00:41.000 So we had the English leadership debate a week ago.

03:00:44.000 And the powers that be, who organized the debate, the legacy media types, with CBC radically involved, couldn't figure out how to exclude rebel media.

03:00:54.000 You know that right-wing news, kind of tabloidy news group from Canada, Ezra Levant, who's been buzzing about for 10 years, causing trouble like a right-wing tabloid journalist, which is what he is.

03:01:08.000 Well, they didn't want him in the press scrum for the leaders after the debate.

03:01:14.000 So they cancelled it.

03:01:17.000 They cancelled the journalists' interviews of the four leading contenders for Prime Minister in Canada.

03:01:23.000 Because some right-wing tabloid journalists, they've had a newspaper or a media empire for 10 years.

03:01:31.000 I don't care what you think of it.

03:01:33.000 It's not the point.

03:01:34.000 The point is they cancelled the journalist scrum after the English language debate.

03:01:42.000 That's so fascinating.

03:01:43.000 And no one complained.

03:01:44.000 But that doesn't even make sense.

03:01:46.000 Like, if you're a presidential candidate...

03:01:51.000 Or prime minister candidate.

03:01:53.000 And you're encountering someone that has an opposing perspective.

03:01:58.000 You should have really good answers.

03:02:00.000 That's it.

03:02:00.000 Look, if you're guys leading, why ask questions?

03:02:04.000 That's the legacy media in Canada.

03:02:06.000 It's the CBC.

03:02:07.000 Right. It's state funded.

03:02:09.000 Right? Right to the core.

03:02:11.000 Think about this, Joe.

03:02:13.000 This is our bloody state media.

03:02:15.000 It's so funny.

03:02:16.000 $1.4 billion in direct government subsidy and $600 million in federal advertising per year.

03:02:21.000 $2 billion.

03:02:22.000 Go to the CBC website on YouTube.

03:02:25.000 You look at their last 20 videos.

03:02:27.000 I'll guarantee that not a single one of them has more than 200 views.

03:02:31.000 Right, which means the people who made the video clips didn't watch them.

03:02:36.000 Right. That's what you get for $2 billion.

03:02:39.000 Now, everyone in Canada who's older than 55 watches legacy media.

03:02:44.000 Right. And Poliev said he'd defund the CBC.

03:02:47.000 So you can imagine they're not exactly covering him in a positive way.

03:02:51.000 I watched the debate where he kept getting talked over.

03:02:54.000 Yeah. Jagmeet Singh.

03:02:56.000 Fascinating. He's such fun with his pink turban. 1.00

03:02:58.000 He's such a fashion icon.

03:03:00.000 Luckily, he's going to lose his own seat, and his party's going to be devastated.

03:03:04.000 That's the socialists.

03:03:05.000 They're going to be devastated so badly that they won't have official party status.

03:03:09.000 But it's incredible to watch that in Canada, where I've always thought at least your discourse is much more polite.

03:03:17.000 Yeah. Was.

03:03:19.000 Was. Yeah.

03:03:21.000 Parasites. There's a lot of mopping up to do in Canada. 0.74

03:03:24.000 Well, in the country.

03:03:28.000 The man who started the Reform Party in Canada, so that was the populist end of the conservative movement 20 years ago, maybe a little longer, eventually reunited with the conservatives, Ernest Manning, or Preston Manning, son of an Alberta premier.

03:03:43.000 He was premier of Alberta for like 40 years.

03:03:45.000 He wrote an article in the Globe and Mail, which was the, it's the Canadian liberal establishment newspaper.

03:03:51.000 And I mean liberal by the classic, you know, old school, small L liberal, centrist sort of newspaper.

03:03:58.000 Saying that Manitoba, Alberta, and Saskatchewan should have an immediate constitutional convention immediately on Carney's ascension to the throne.

03:04:08.000 Quebec doesn't want pipelines traversing its territory.

03:04:11.000 And Quebec, one of the, I don't know if you noticed this, but one of the participants in the debate was a Canadian separatist.

03:04:19.000 We literally have a Canadian federal party, federal, localized in Quebec, who's...

03:04:28.000 Stated intent is to break up the country.

03:04:31.000 Hasn't that always been the case with Quebec, though?

03:04:33.000 For a good while, it was provincial.

03:04:35.000 Right? I mean, they had a provincial party.

03:04:38.000 Like a state party, right?

03:04:39.000 Okay, fair enough.

03:04:40.000 Have your state separatist party.

03:04:43.000 It's for your state.

03:04:44.000 Oh, no.

03:04:45.000 We want to have a national party.

03:04:47.000 We want to be represented in the House of Commons as separatists.

03:04:50.000 Oof. Yeah, so the country's in...

03:04:53.000 It's very sad.

03:04:55.000 And I was hoping...

03:04:56.000 They could be the 51st state.

03:04:58.000 Well, that's what happened.

03:05:00.000 So two things.

03:05:01.000 Back to that.

03:05:01.000 That was the big one.

03:05:02.000 Carney showed up just in the nick of time to save the burning damsel from the train tracks or whatever the hell it is.

03:05:09.000 The rhetoric.

03:05:10.000 And then Trump.

03:05:11.000 He just timed it so badly.

03:05:13.000 And he didn't know.

03:05:15.000 He didn't know what it would do.

03:05:18.000 He didn't know.

03:05:19.000 But that's also...

03:05:21.000 How do you not know that people have national pride?

03:05:26.000 Yeah, he knew that, but he didn't know what the electoral consequences would be.

03:05:30.000 He didn't know that that would shift them to the liberals so radically.

03:05:34.000 And he's going to pay for that because once Carney is elected, if that happens, Trump will not have a more seasoned enemy in the West.

03:05:44.000 Boy. Right.

03:05:45.000 Carney's very well connected.

03:05:47.000 Very. Especially in Europe and the UK.

03:05:50.000 Very well.

03:05:51.000 And Europe and the UK is a mess.

03:05:56.000 Yeah, you might say that.

03:05:58.000 It's a mess.

03:05:58.000 Oh, that's for sure.

03:05:58.000 We've highlighted all the arrests in the UK over social media posts, and most people have no idea.

03:06:05.000 Constantine Kissin is great with explaining all that to people.

03:06:09.000 It's so funny when he compares it to Russia, and he says how many people got arrested in Russia.

03:06:13.000 How many people you think got arrested in the UK?

03:06:17.000 And most people are, oh, none, right?

03:06:19.000 No, 4,000.

03:06:20.000 Like, what?

03:06:21.000 Yeah. Oh yeah, it's unbelievable.

03:06:23.000 There's videos all over the internet about it.

03:06:26.000 You just see this everywhere.

03:06:27.000 So they've implemented these 20 mile an hour speed limits everywhere.

03:06:30.000 And so...

03:06:31.000 20 miles an hour.

03:06:32.000 Yeah. Yeah, because, Joe...

03:06:34.000 That's a bike.

03:06:35.000 You don't really need a car.

03:06:36.000 Like, what are you doing that's so important that you need a car?

03:06:39.000 Like, if I have to go to a climate meeting, well, I get a car.

03:06:43.000 But the peasants, they don't really need cars.

03:06:46.000 They don't need heat either.

03:06:47.000 Not that much heat.

03:06:48.000 Maybe they can stop Grandma from freezing.

03:06:51.000 One of the fascinating things about Bernie Sanders and his anti-oligarch tour is they're doing it on private jets.

03:06:57.000 Yeah, exactly.

03:07:02.000 So we were in the UK not long ago for this ARC conference and we rented a truck.

03:07:10.000 And whenever it went over 20 miles an hour...

03:07:14.000 It beeped at you, just like seatbelt things beep.

03:07:17.000 Oh, God.

03:07:18.000 20 miles an hour.

03:07:19.000 And then if you go more than two miles an hour over the speed limit and you get caught, then that knocks one-third of your license off.

03:07:27.000 If you do that three times, you don't have a license for a year.

03:07:32.000 Beep, beep, beep, beep.

03:07:33.000 Climate. Climate knocking.

03:07:35.000 Climate knocking.

03:07:37.000 Oh, my God.

03:07:37.000 Yeah. You can tell tyrants, Joe, they use fear and...

03:07:43.000 Compulsion. And they hate comedians and cars.

03:07:46.000 Right. There's tyrant checklist.

03:07:48.000 Hates cars.

03:07:49.000 Check. No sense of humor.

03:07:51.000 Check. Uses fear.

03:07:53.000 Check. Uses force.

03:07:54.000 Check. Psychopath.

03:07:56.000 Right. I hate to end this on a bleak note.

03:08:01.000 Well, let's end it on a positive note.

03:08:03.000 Okay. Okay.

03:08:04.000 So what's positive?

03:08:07.000 Young people are flocking back to churches across the West.

03:08:11.000 And more to the conservative churches.

03:08:14.000 And the only thing we have to buttress us into the future against the Islamists and the Marxists and the nihilists and the hedonists is our return to our core traditions. 0.95

03:08:28.000 Without that, we're done.

03:08:30.000 And so that's happening.

03:08:31.000 And in big numbers.

03:08:32.000 And so that's really quite something.

03:08:36.000 The back has been broken of the climate apocalypse narrative.

03:08:39.000 There's plenty of mopping up to do, but half the people know that there's something rotten in the state of Denmark and that that particular apocalypse is probably not worth giving up all your freedoms for.

03:08:53.000 We've seen a lot of progress on the ARC front, like a lot of the things that we've been putting forward, the better story, that's a return to the foundations of Western civilization that made our society the sort of...

03:09:08.000 A place that dispossessed people will go to voluntarily, right? 1.00

03:09:13.000 There's lots of people who are starting to understand that that's seriously worth preserving, right?

03:09:19.000 Energy executives are waking up, as far as I can see, to the fact that they could help the world's poor in a serious way.

03:09:26.000 And if they want to moralize, that would be a...

03:09:29.000 If they want to act morally...

03:09:31.000 That would be a good place to start.

03:09:32.000 There's lots of people who are working to produce abundance.

03:09:35.000 Your country, the US, you guys are unbelievably good at that.

03:09:38.000 Way better than any other country in the world.

03:09:41.000 And you generally deliver in times of crisis.

03:09:47.000 And you might just do that again.

03:09:49.000 And so, and then I would say underneath all that, you know, you said you...

03:09:56.000 You're pretty happy to encourage people.

03:09:57.000 You're very happy when you hear that your show is being helpful to people.

03:10:03.000 There's lots of people who are consciously trying to aim up, and more and more of them all the time.

03:10:08.000 And if enough people do that, we won't need to learn through pain, and we can bring abundance everywhere in the world, and we can make the next 50 years.

03:10:24.000 An unparalleled success.

03:10:26.000 And we need the faith and courage of Joshua and Caleb to do that.

03:10:32.000 Of course, the future is full of giants and disasters.

03:10:35.000 But if we aim up and we speak the words of truth that make good order out of chaos, then anything's possible.

03:10:47.000 All right.

03:10:48.000 Beautiful. Always enjoy this.

03:10:51.000 I always enjoy our conversations.

03:10:53.000 I appreciate you very much.

03:10:54.000 I appreciate our friendship.

03:10:56.000 It's been great knowing you all these years and watching this crazy journey that you've been on.

03:11:00.000 I'm glad you're doing great.

03:11:03.000 Yeah, Joe.

03:11:04.000 Same thing for you, man.

03:11:06.000 Thanks a lot.

03:11:07.000 And thanks for your help with Peterson Academy, too.

03:11:09.000 My pleasure.

03:11:10.000 Very helpful.

03:11:11.000 Much appreciated.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 22, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2308 - Jordan Peterson

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