The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2313

00:00:12.000 Yes!

00:00:13.000 Good to see you.

00:00:14.000 You too!

00:00:15.000 We were just talking about boomers.

00:00:17.000 About parents.

00:00:18.000 Parents that don't want to believe anything other than what they're getting from the news.

00:00:24.000 It's been a challenge.

00:00:25.000 My dad is an absolute lost cause.

00:00:27.000 My mom...

00:00:28.000 Is now open to the conversation, and she'll send me a bunch of different articles, and then she'll allow me to disseminate from my perspective.

00:00:37.000 But it's been...

00:00:39.000 It's been...

00:00:40.000 A rough ride.

00:00:41.000 Yeah, I've got them on peptides now, which is nice.

00:00:44.000 Same!

00:00:45.000 And I've got my stepdad on testosterone replacement, which is nice, and he's seeing benefits of those things.

00:00:51.000 So it's like they're slowly starting to incorporate some of these things, but their whole life they've been told that the doctor knows everything and that the news is always correct and anything contrary to the news is bullshit.

00:01:04.000 But arguably, when our parents were our age, It was reliable.

00:01:11.000 I don't think so.

00:01:12.000 No?

00:01:12.000 No, I think it's always been compromised.

00:01:14.000 I just think there was no alternatives.

00:01:16.000 That's interesting.

00:01:17.000 Yeah, that's what I think.

00:01:18.000 My mom is a psychoanalyst, PhD.

00:01:20.000 This is a very educated, thoughtful woman.

00:01:25.000 Sometimes that's the worst.

00:01:26.000 No, no.

00:01:27.000 I would argue against in this case.

00:01:29.000 I do appreciate...

00:01:31.000 People who see flaws in psychoanalysis.

00:01:34.000 But I've learned a huge amount from my mom in this area.

00:01:37.000 And she also majored in journalism before changing careers to psychoanalysis.

00:01:43.000 And so for her to even wrap her head around the fact that journalism can be compromised is almost inconceivable.

00:01:50.000 Right.

00:01:51.000 I didn't mean psychoanalysis is bad.

00:01:54.000 What I meant is that a lot of times educated people defer to other educated people.

00:01:58.000 Like, they're an expert in their field, so they assume that all the other experts in their field are also correct.

00:02:04.000 And any heretic is just a fool.

00:02:06.000 I would happen to agree with that point.

00:02:10.000 Yeah.

00:02:11.000 That's why we were talking about Fauci on the way in, and both of my parents...

00:02:17.000 Could arguably canonize the guy.

00:02:18.000 Or now, I think I've broken through with my mom, but it has taken me since your episode with Brett Weinstein in March of 2020.

00:02:28.000 I have been working on it.

00:02:29.000 We're getting there, though.

00:02:31.000 We're there.

00:02:32.000 We are there.

00:02:34.000 It's been five years.

00:02:35.000 Isn't that crazy that was five years ago?

00:02:36.000 It was like yesterday.

00:02:38.000 I'll never forget it.

00:02:39.000 Five years ago.

00:02:40.000 And I remember when that episode came out, people were freaking out, like, what are you doing?

00:02:44.000 What is Brett doing?

00:02:45.000 This is bullshit.

00:02:45.000 You're going to get us all killed.

00:02:47.000 It made perfect sense to me.

00:02:49.000 Well, he was right, clearly.

00:02:50.000 And yet still, no apologies, no corrections, except the government website.

00:02:55.000 The COVID-19 website is now up, and this has to be because of Bobby Kennedy.

00:03:00.000 Hey, I mean, the New York Times is like, oh, looks like this came from a lab.

00:03:04.000 It's like, really?

00:03:06.000 Well, the best part about it was that we were misled.

00:03:09.000 Yeah, you were misled by you, you fuckers.

00:03:11.000 I know.

00:03:12.000 You did it.

00:03:12.000 Isn't that disgusting?

00:03:14.000 And there are zero apologies.

00:03:16.000 No.

00:03:17.000 Zero course corrections.

00:03:18.000 And they unveil this information as though they are the purveyors of truth.

00:03:24.000 Guys, we've got a headline.

00:03:25.000 You're a little late.

00:03:26.000 This came from a lab.

00:03:27.000 You're a half a decade late.

00:03:28.000 That's right.

00:03:29.000 You know what's really interesting?

00:03:30.000 We've been talking about this a lot lately, that imagine if the roles were reversed and if podcasters were the ones yelling at everybody to go out and take these experimental shots, and then they were experiencing all these complications and all these side effects.

00:03:43.000 Mainstream news would be chastising us.

00:03:46.000 Like, how dare you give people the advice to go out and do that?

00:03:48.000 You're responsible for these people having all these side effects and all these unnecessary deaths and all these people that would have had no problem with COVID.

00:03:55.000 You encouraged them to take this vaccine and they had strokes and they had this and they had that.

00:03:59.000 They'd be calling for us to get shut down.

00:04:01.000 I actually did that.

00:04:03.000 I did not know any better.

00:04:05.000 And I was pitched a vaccine scientist.

00:04:09.000 And I thought, like, oh, this is great.

00:04:11.000 Yeah, come on the show.

00:04:13.000 I didn't know the vaccine was gene therapy.

00:04:17.000 I had no idea.

00:04:19.000 So I knew it came from a lab.

00:04:21.000 That made perfect sense to me.

00:04:23.000 And I was like, oh, well, this is very clear.

00:04:24.000 It's not, you know, from a wet market.

00:04:27.000 But someone reached out to a producer.

00:04:31.000 Of mine and said, you know, we've got this person who was a scientist who worked on the vaccine that wants to educate people.

00:04:36.000 And I thought I was doing this major public service.

00:04:38.000 I have had to apologize for that podcast and I've left it up.

00:04:42.000 What was the scientist?

00:04:43.000 I cannot, Joe, I cannot remember her name.

00:04:46.000 She was actually young.

00:04:47.000 And the reason I remember that she was in her 30s is because she told me, oh, this tech has been around for 30 years.

00:04:53.000 And I thought...

00:04:54.000 But you're only, you're like 35. No, no, we've been evolving this technology for 30 years, and you see all of these trials for safety.

00:05:04.000 It's just bureaucracy.

00:05:06.000 I didn't understand what it meant to push something through that emergency use loophole at the time.

00:05:12.000 I didn't understand the difference of, oh, this is a dead pathogen, and this is a live pathogen, and we're worried about adjuvants, but this here, this is gene therapy.

00:05:21.000 Didn't even begin to comprehend what that was, what it meant, or the fact that we would fuck around with something that was experimental.

00:05:31.000 And the scariest part is I had been talking with a woman named Brianne Dresden, who was injured during the AstraZeneca COVID-19 trials.

00:05:40.000 And the NIH was studying all of the people that had been injured during the vaccine trials.

00:05:47.000 As they ruled out the vaccine with no concerns and lied about every component from it stays in the shoulder, it's out of the body in 24 hours, until you find out, no, it's coated in lipid nanoparticles and it can cross the blood-brain barrier.

00:06:02.000 Oops.

00:06:02.000 Now they're finding out that people can still produce spike protein because of the injections for over 700 days.

00:06:07.000 And you can shed, supposedly.

00:06:09.000 Yeah, you give it to your partner.

00:06:10.000 It's insane.

00:06:12.000 Crazy.

00:06:12.000 And now they're, I mean, I'm certainly not...

00:06:15.000 An expert in mRNA tech.

00:06:17.000 But now we're fast-tracking other vaccines that utilize the same technology.

00:06:22.000 And I know, for one, I don't think I'll take an mRNA vaccine ever.

00:06:27.000 It scares the crap out of me.

00:06:29.000 Well, you've heard Brett Weinstein talk about the flaws in just the technology itself.

00:06:34.000 You know, the fact that when it gets into your body, if it gets especially, you know, the thing is nobody aspirated, right?

00:06:41.000 They didn't inject people and pull back to make sure they're not on a blood vessel.

00:06:45.000 They just plunged it, including when they did it live with Biden on television, which I don't think that was the right thing.

00:06:53.000 I've said to this day, people are like, yeah, well, you're a conspiracy theorist.

00:06:56.000 Yeah, I think.

00:06:57.000 Yeah, I'm telling you right now.

00:06:59.000 I think it's a conspiracy.

00:07:00.000 I don't think they would take a chance in injecting a fucking 80-year-old man when you know that you have to, like, stay there at the clinic for 20 minutes in case you drop dead.

00:07:11.000 You know, my wife's friend, her friend's son actually, had the COVID vaccine and the flu vaccine on the same day.

00:07:21.000 He did supposedly stay for 15 minutes, got in the car.

00:07:25.000 I must have passed out or had a seizure.

00:07:27.000 I hid a tree and died.

00:07:29.000 Jesus Christ.

00:07:29.000 I had a crazy reaction to it.

00:07:31.000 I know I'm not trying to promote this anti-vax position, but...

00:07:37.000 Well, that's not a vaccine.

00:07:39.000 Calling it a vaccine is fucking crazy.

00:07:41.000 That's exactly it.

00:07:41.000 It was a totally experimental gene therapy.

00:07:44.000 And what Brett was saying about it is if you don't aspirate, you're shooting it right into a blood vessel.

00:07:49.000 If you're shooting it right into a blood vessel, it could go to all sorts of areas of the body where the body's going to attack it like it's a disease, particularly the heart.

00:07:59.000 And he's like, this is why you get myocarditis, because the heart doesn't heal, which is why you don't get heart cancer.

00:08:04.000 Your heart just scars over.

00:08:06.000 So people have these inflamed, enlarged hearts, and then diminished cardiovascular function.

00:08:11.000 And he was talking about this way earlier than anybody else.

00:08:15.000 And they were, blood on his hands!

00:08:17.000 He's killing grandmas!

00:08:19.000 The vaccine saved millions of lives.

00:08:21.000 People say that all the time.

00:08:22.000 They've saved millions of lives.

00:08:23.000 Like, how?

00:08:24.000 If people still got COVID, not only that, they got more COVID than people that didn't get COVID.

00:08:29.000 I am still having this exact debate, actually, with my mom, who's like, but honey, it saved millions.

00:08:36.000 And you know what's crazy?

00:08:38.000 Have you actually tried to Google that information?

00:08:40.000 Because you can make a case for that based on what will come up on Google.

00:08:45.000 And she's like, but look right here, it says it saved millions of lives.

00:08:48.000 But you know, it's only based on the idea that those people would have died if they didn't have COVID.

00:08:54.000 And the problem is you're going to get COVID anyway.

00:08:57.000 So that data is bullshit.

00:08:59.000 Not only that, even when people got COVID, 99.07 of those fuckers lived.

00:09:08.000 I just pulled that up because I was trying to illustrate that point.

00:09:11.000 I was like, do you realize that I think the percentage of mortality with this is like 1%?

00:09:18.000 And when you look at it, it's like 0.03 all the way up until you get about 80 years old.

00:09:26.000 It's like, well, 1% or so, 1.5 maybe in 80-year-olds or morbidly obese or severely autoimmune, you know, immunocompromised.

00:09:35.000 When you have 330 million people in this country and then, you know, you look at that 0.3%, that starts looking like a lot of people.

00:09:46.000 But those are just people that are on death's door.

00:09:49.000 That's the reality.

00:09:50.000 Metabolically unhealthy, obese, diabetes, all sorts of problems, cancer, leukemia, on chemotherapy.

00:09:57.000 Those are the people that died.

00:09:59.000 I remember when Bill Maher was talking about how it was people who...

00:10:05.000 There was a study that came out of the CDC, and forgive me because I don't remember the exact percentage, but it was upwards of 80% of the people who died or had severe cases of COVID were obese.

00:10:16.000 Or overweight.

00:10:17.000 And this is when, you know, you could be healthy at any size.

00:10:21.000 That psyop was in full effect.

00:10:23.000 That must have drove you crazy.

00:10:24.000 Oh, I was...

00:10:25.000 I was completely unraveling.

00:10:30.000 People ask me, like, what happened?

00:10:32.000 You were a good liberal.

00:10:35.000 You're still a good liberal.

00:10:36.000 If you go back to the old definition.

00:10:38.000 I haven't changed.

00:10:39.000 I go issue by issue with my friends.

00:10:42.000 And I'm like, you show me where I've shifted my position on any issue outside of Trump.

00:10:49.000 I used to think he was Hitlerian and he was going to round up all the gays and we were all fucked.

00:10:54.000 None of that happened.

00:10:55.000 I thought Russia, Russia, Russia.

00:10:57.000 I thought that was real.

00:10:59.000 As new evidence came to light and I managed to survive his first term intact along with my gay relationships, I somehow started to feel that maybe a lot of that was bullshit propaganda.

00:11:13.000 But outside of that, not one of my positions has changed.

00:11:18.000 Not one.

00:11:19.000 And I find that arguably the right is more welcoming and more tolerant now.

00:11:24.000 I can sit down and have a conversation with Matt Walsh.

00:11:27.000 And debate gay marriage in a civil fashion.

00:11:31.000 And I ended up, again, I bring up Bill because I work with Bill in some capacity on his podcast network.

00:11:37.000 And I was having to defend him on Piers Morgan because he was sitting down with Trump.

00:11:43.000 And they called him a bigot and a racist and anti-science because he was going to sit with Trump.

00:11:49.000 I'm like, well, where's the outrage that he sits down with Newsome?

00:11:51.000 I hate that guy way more.

00:11:53.000 Piers Morgan was saying this?

00:11:54.000 Not Piers.

00:11:55.000 Piers was awesome.

00:11:56.000 Piers' show is Maury Povich 2.0.

00:11:59.000 It's a better version of Maury Povich.

00:12:01.000 I love it, though.

00:12:02.000 And I love when I get to do it because you're allowed to act unhinged.

00:12:06.000 You still have to make your points.

00:12:07.000 Yeah.

00:12:08.000 But it is theatrical.

00:12:10.000 But sometimes I think when you are able to be so theatrical, it goes viral.

00:12:16.000 And the point that you're trying to make is arguably seen by more, unless it's a platform, of course, like yours.

00:12:22.000 Yeah, he does a good job of that.

00:12:23.000 I just don't think it's a good way to discuss ideas.

00:12:26.000 You're not wrong.

00:12:27.000 But it's really good as far as going viral.

00:12:30.000 It's great.

00:12:31.000 You're not wrong about that.

00:12:32.000 I still find it fun, though.

00:12:34.000 Because what you hold in for all those civil conversations where you're biting your tongue, you're trying to communicate.

00:12:46.000 Calmly, articulately.

00:12:47.000 Here you can just unleash.

00:12:49.000 Your hypocrisy is disgusting!

00:12:54.000 It's everything I swallow in every conversation with all my friends from California.

00:12:58.000 And you can just let it rip and freaking tear into people because they started it.

00:13:05.000 They started the fight.

00:13:06.000 I don't like that.

00:13:08.000 I don't like doing that, so I'm not interested in that.

00:13:12.000 I get it.

00:13:12.000 I'm not interested in that kind of conflict.

00:13:14.000 I don't want to talk to people like that.

00:13:16.000 I don't like it.

00:13:17.000 I understand.

00:13:18.000 You are a very gentle soul.

00:13:20.000 I watch you sometimes, and you're just so...

00:13:23.000 Not sometimes.

00:13:24.000 I watch you often, and you're a very gentle soul.

00:13:26.000 And sometimes I think, God, toxic masculinity.

00:13:31.000 That whole notion, all of the men in your space tend to be...

00:13:38.000 Far kinder and softer, and it's the women that are savages.

00:13:42.000 I mean, I happen to love, I love Megyn Kelly.

00:13:45.000 I think she's brilliant, but goddamn, I never want to be on the wrong side of her.

00:13:48.000 Yeah, she's ruthless.

00:13:49.000 She'll rip your head off and, like, eat your heart.

00:13:52.000 Do not fuck with that woman.

00:13:55.000 Yeah.

00:13:55.000 You know, so, anyway, I think that some of the women in the space are genuinely more aggressive than the men.

00:14:03.000 Well, do you think that's because they have to, to get respect?

00:14:06.000 Like, why do you think that is?

00:14:08.000 No, I don't think so.

00:14:10.000 And I find that it's more respectable when you speak in the fashion that you do.

00:14:15.000 And I've tried to really curtail that behavior throughout every other aspect of my life, personally and professionally, whether I'm fighting with a contractor on my house, I try to lower the octaves of my voice, or I'm trying to win somebody over in a debate.

00:14:32.000 But I think, you know, Joe, honestly, I think because it's entertaining.

00:14:36.000 Yeah.

00:14:36.000 And it's a competitive space.

00:14:38.000 Yeah.

00:14:38.000 I really think that's it.

00:14:40.000 And it seems to work.

00:14:42.000 Sort of, but why am I number one then?

00:14:44.000 Because I don't do it.

00:14:45.000 Because that, see, that's like the counter argument to that.

00:14:48.000 Here would be my answer.

00:14:50.000 Because you can lick everything in the fridge.

00:14:53.000 And what I mean by that is you don't have a niche.

00:14:56.000 Lick everything in the fridge.

00:14:57.000 Seriously.

00:14:58.000 I'm not kidding.

00:14:59.000 I've never heard that expression before.

00:15:00.000 You can talk about anything and everything and it's fascinating and people tune in for it.

00:15:06.000 They don't come here because they want to hear about politics or they want to hear about health or they want to hear about fucking aliens.

00:15:11.000 They come here because they want to hear about all of it and they want to hear what you think about all of it.

00:15:17.000 So it's not really interesting when someone else does it because they're not there to see what that individual thinks about the subject matter.

00:15:26.000 When I turn into Megyn Kelly, it's like, or tune in.

00:15:30.000 It's because I want...

00:15:31.000 Don't turn into her.

00:15:32.000 No, I'm not.

00:15:32.000 I'm not.

00:15:33.000 The fuck no, dude.

00:15:34.000 I'm messing with her.

00:15:37.000 She's a lovely person and she's been nothing but lovely with me.

00:15:40.000 I'm sure.

00:15:41.000 As mentioned, I am not interested in being on her bad side.

00:15:44.000 However, when I tune in, it's not because I want to see...

00:15:49.000 Her reaction or her opinion on something, it's because I want to learn what is the counter-argument to deporting this guy, Kilmar Obrego Garcia.

00:15:57.000 I'm like, okay, steel man that argument for me, and then tune into something else, and try to disseminate what the truth is, and she's, I think, a constitutional attorney.

00:16:06.000 So I feel like I'm getting great information.

00:16:09.000 With you, you're not just learning about something, but you're also curious what you think about it.

00:16:15.000 If you're going to go, ah, bullshit!

00:16:16.000 Or if you're like, if you do the, wow.

00:16:19.000 You know, you want to say what you think about it.

00:16:21.000 Yeah, I just think we could all do with a little less yelling at each other.

00:16:26.000 You're totally right.

00:16:27.000 I just don't think it's good for anybody.

00:16:30.000 Every time I've engaged in it, I feel bad for the rest of the day.

00:16:33.000 Really?

00:16:34.000 Even if I win.

00:16:34.000 Yeah, I don't feel good.

00:16:35.000 I just feel like, ugh, I don't like that.

00:16:38.000 I don't like it.

00:16:39.000 What if they deserved it?

00:16:42.000 I think you should be nice until...

00:16:44.000 It's time to not be nice.

00:16:46.000 And generally, that's like extreme violence.

00:16:49.000 That's my feeling.

00:16:50.000 That's my feeling, you know?

00:16:52.000 Like, be nice up until you're literally trying to incapacitate a person.

00:16:57.000 That's fair.

00:16:58.000 I feel like...

00:16:59.000 I don't think we have to do that.

00:17:01.000 And I think the only time you have to do that is when someone's completely psychotic.

00:17:05.000 99.999% of the time, you're better off serving you and that person.

00:17:12.000 Better by just being nice.

00:17:13.000 And calm and making a point in an intelligent fashion.

00:17:16.000 You're absolutely right.

00:17:18.000 Yeah, not being married to your ideas either.

00:17:20.000 Also, you know, not like taking an opposition to your ideas as an opposition to you as a being.

00:17:27.000 You know, these are just ideas.

00:17:30.000 Like if someone thinks that you're incorrect, if someone thinks I'm incorrect, I'm like, well, tell me why.

00:17:34.000 What do you think?

00:17:35.000 Why do you think that?

00:17:37.000 Where did you come to this conclusion?

00:17:39.000 What was the tipping point for you?

00:17:41.000 Like, what is it?

00:17:43.000 Like, tell me what it is.

00:17:44.000 That's rare, though.

00:17:45.000 I was just actually talking to Mike Rowe about that.

00:17:47.000 Why do we hold on so fastidiously to our dogma?

00:17:52.000 And honestly, because it doesn't feel right to have somebody say, I told you so.

00:17:55.000 I will do the mea culpa, and I have a million times.

00:17:59.000 But it is...

00:18:00.000 Certainly more rare.

00:18:02.000 I mean, how often do you see a walk back or a course correct?

00:18:05.000 Not often.

00:18:06.000 And I know that, you know, when people wag their finger at me, are you happy?

00:18:10.000 This is what you voted for.

00:18:12.000 You want to defend things that arguably you may agree with them on.

00:18:16.000 And I'm like, don't, don't, don't do it.

00:18:19.000 Just do you, do you see their point?

00:18:21.000 If so, acknowledge you see their point.

00:18:23.000 And then I still feel the need.

00:18:27.000 To play the lesser evil game, even when they're right.

00:18:30.000 They're still wrong because when I weigh out the choices I had, even though you're right on this issue, I'm right about my choice ultimately because more things went the way I wanted them to than the way I didn't.

00:18:42.000 It takes a lot of ego strength to admit where you're wrong, and I just don't think a lot of people have that.

00:18:48.000 There is a tribalism with everything, whether it's workout trends.

00:18:54.000 Diets, for God's sake.

00:18:55.000 We've seen this kind of dogma in health and wellness for years.

00:19:00.000 That's no fun to say you were wrong, and in some cases it can have professional repercussions for people.

00:19:05.000 Sure.

00:19:06.000 Did you experience any professional repercussions when you're pushing back against this healthy-at-any-size stuff?

00:19:12.000 How much time do you have on that one?

00:19:14.000 Well, let's go into it, because that to me was so fascinating.

00:19:18.000 The concept of fat shaming, which I don't think you should hurt anybody's feelings, but I think at a certain point in time...

00:19:25.000 Sometimes hurting someone's feelings causes actions.

00:19:29.000 And hurting someone's feelings with the truth.

00:19:31.000 And you can give the truth to someone lovingly.

00:19:33.000 You know, you can say, look, I care about you.

00:19:35.000 This is why I want to tell you you're a fat fuck.

00:19:36.000 Like, you really are.

00:19:38.000 You're disgusting, and you need to lose weight, and you're fully addicted to food, and you don't understand what it's doing to your body, and you're being lied to by all these other people, like these fat doctors.

00:19:50.000 Like, there's some lady in the UK who calls herself the fat doctor.

00:19:53.000 I'm like...

00:19:54.000 Great.

00:19:54.000 Lady, you're just overwhelmed with inflammation.

00:19:57.000 I could just see it looking at you.

00:19:59.000 This is crazy that you're giving this advice out.

00:20:01.000 You can't walk up a hill.

00:20:03.000 There's no way.

00:20:04.000 You're so unhealthy.

00:20:06.000 And this idea that shaming people is worse than telling them the truth that's going to make them feel bad, maybe temporarily, but you could do it with kindness.

00:20:16.000 And then that person can make choices.

00:20:19.000 And then you encourage them.

00:20:20.000 Like, I'm so glad you changed your diet.

00:20:23.000 I'm so glad you cut out this and cut out that.

00:20:25.000 And now you're doing well.

00:20:26.000 And you've decided to walk 10,000 steps a day.

00:20:29.000 And you've decided to start exercising a little bit, you know?

00:20:31.000 This episode is brought to you by DoorDash.

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00:21:10.000 Terms apply.

00:21:11.000 You've given me a lot to tackle here.

00:21:13.000 So let's start with the PSYOP component of healthy at any size.

00:21:19.000 This is a big food narrative.

00:21:20.000 This has been proven.

00:21:24.000 Explain big food narrative, what you mean by that.

00:21:26.000 Okay.

00:21:27.000 So big food, put simply, hired a bunch of registered dietitians to co-opt this concept of intuitive eating.

00:21:38.000 And I'm dead ass serious with hashtags like derail the shame and they paid them.

00:21:45.000 And they put out all of these posts and went to all of these conventions and promoted the narrative that you can be healthy at any size.

00:21:56.000 And it's just a flat out lie.

00:21:57.000 It is a flat earther conversation.

00:21:59.000 It is pseudoscience.

00:22:02.000 At its best, there's no truth behind that.

00:22:05.000 There is a robust amount of data that show us being obese is associated with like 170 comorbidities.

00:22:14.000 This is a non-factor.

00:22:16.000 It's been debunked.

00:22:17.000 We know this for a fact.

00:22:18.000 So when that happens, what they're doing is essentially...

00:22:24.000 Placating someone who already feels, now I can attack what's going on, or address rather, what's going on with an individual who is that size, and it is largely psychological.

00:22:36.000 Once you are past the point of dad bod, you know what I mean?

00:22:40.000 Like, oh, I worked three jobs, life beat me down, it's a food desert, and I'm 40 pounds overweight, and I've let myself go.

00:22:49.000 This is a different...

00:22:50.000 When you're dealing with somebody who is 50-plus pounds overweight, there is a psychological component.

00:22:57.000 So the first thing we need to do is make them aware that there is a problem without question.

00:23:02.000 But you can do it without shame, giving them facts of, listen, this is unhealthy.

00:23:06.000 And because you are such a valuable individual, I want you to understand this because only from a place of feeling truly worthy are you able to facilitate a change.

00:23:17.000 You don't work out because you hate your body.

00:23:19.000 You work out because you love it.

00:23:20.000 So it doesn't need to be a shaming.

00:23:25.000 There's no shame there, to be honest, Joe.

00:23:28.000 I know that people claim there is because you pointed out this vulnerability or this flaw in the person.

00:23:36.000 But we all have flaws and vulnerabilities, people who are overweight.

00:23:40.000 Yeah.

00:23:41.000 Yeah.

00:23:44.000 By educating them first, and then, without question, I like to give people, or when I was able to do the work hands-on, that rock-bottom moment, because they are overweight because it is providing them with something extraordinarily significant.

00:24:01.000 And I can give you examples should you need them, but I promise you that at one time or another, people turn to addictions, in this case food.

00:24:09.000 Because it means their psychological survival.

00:24:12.000 So put simply, the most obvious example would be a person who was incested, molested, raped, puts on a way to desexualize.

00:24:20.000 That's just one example of many, but it's easy to illustrate the point.

00:24:24.000 So whatever this thing is providing them is the part that's so hard to let go of.

00:24:29.000 Because unconsciously it's terrifying.

00:24:31.000 And you've got to first show them, this is why we need to change.

00:24:35.000 And then you've got to give them that path towards change and you've got to make it harder.

00:24:40.000 You've got to make them feel the pain.

00:24:41.000 It could be physically, it could be psychologically, but it doesn't have to be shameful.

00:24:45.000 Of the way they've been living so that the work and the sacrifice associated with change is less painful than continuing the negative and destructive habits.

00:24:59.000 You don't have to shame them.

00:25:01.000 I know what the message seems like it is.

00:25:03.000 But it really isn't.

00:25:05.000 Well, the whole term fat shaming is pretty recent, right?

00:25:08.000 Yes, very.

00:25:09.000 Let's get right back to when you asked me what I lost.

00:25:13.000 Intuitive eating is a fascinating phrase.

00:25:16.000 And the idea that this is by the same people that used to be in charge of tobacco.

00:25:22.000 Yep.

00:25:22.000 This is what's really crazy.

00:25:24.000 R.J. Reynolds and these tobacco companies bought all these fast food, processed food companies, and they used the same tactics that they used with that to push terrible foods on people.

00:25:36.000 Well, they literally have a team of multidisciplinary scientists that work around the clock to figure out how to get people to...

00:25:45.000 not eat just one.

00:25:46.000 And then they put it in a commercial.

00:25:48.000 It's like literally in broad daylight.

00:25:50.000 Look what we're doing to people.

00:25:52.000 Bet you can't eat just one.

00:25:53.000 Just one.

00:25:53.000 You know, but the...

00:25:55.000 What they're doing is they are exploiting somebody's psychology and they're hijacking their biology with this food, without question.

00:26:04.000 And this is why you have seen rates of obesity skyrocket from, what, 70s, when it was like 5% of the adult population was overweight or obese, to 74%.

00:26:17.000 We're all, is it quantum leap in genetics?

00:26:19.000 That's a big pharma.

00:26:22.000 No, no, no.

00:26:23.000 This is all genetic.

00:26:24.000 You're genetically obese.

00:26:27.000 What happened?

00:26:29.000 I've never seen such a quantum leap in genetics.

00:26:32.000 How come we were genetically obese in the 70s?

00:26:34.000 What was that tipping point, if you will?

00:26:37.000 That created the cascade of obesity over the last five decades.

00:26:41.000 Of course, it's exactly what you're talking about.

00:26:44.000 Yeah, it's ingredients and food.

00:26:45.000 It's really simple.

00:26:46.000 That and also how they engineer the environment.

00:26:51.000 And you're surrounded by it.

00:26:52.000 You can't escape it.

00:26:53.000 Remember the days when you weren't allowed to have food at a bookstore?

00:26:57.000 And now every friggin' bookstore has a cafe with a 600-calorie drink.

00:27:02.000 You are surrounded.

00:27:04.000 There is nowhere you can go right now where food is not omnipresent.

00:27:08.000 In particular, this crappy food.

00:27:10.000 And they generally do it through government contracts and subsidies.

00:27:13.000 So it's at your schools, your hospitals, anywhere you go.

00:27:17.000 You will find this garbage food.

00:27:19.000 So even if you have that moment of willpower, which is arguably this fleeting moment of bravado, if you're constantly surrounded by it, you will give in.

00:27:31.000 Managing your environment is a large part of helping someone be successful.

00:27:36.000 It's a band-aid, right, if you're dealing with sexual abuse, for example.

00:27:39.000 But controlling the environment is definitely a component in helping them.

00:27:43.000 You can't control the environment.

00:27:44.000 You can't control the narrative.

00:27:46.000 You can't control what's in the food.

00:27:48.000 And it's all by design.

00:27:50.000 It's not just the crap in the food.

00:27:52.000 It's how they control the narrative around it and how they engineer the environment and how they systematically shut down the people that point it out as.

00:28:01.000 Fat chambers, for example, or racists.

00:28:03.000 Yeah.

00:28:03.000 It's another big one.

00:28:04.000 Yeah, it's a big one.

00:28:05.000 Or transphobes or fill in the blank.

00:28:07.000 But it's fascinating to me that hospitals fall into this.

00:28:11.000 A friend of mine was visiting his friend who has prostate cancer.

00:28:16.000 And this guy is in the hospital being treated for cancer.

00:28:18.000 And then he went to look at what they're feeding him in the hospital.

00:28:22.000 And they were feeding him applesauce, which is loaded with high fructose corn syrup.

00:28:26.000 Apple juice or orange juice, which is not even juice.

00:28:29.000 It's constant.

00:28:30.000 It's all bullshit.

00:28:31.000 Yep.

00:28:31.000 And then some kind of a fucking sandwich, which is made out of this processed wheat bread.

00:28:36.000 Yeah.

00:28:37.000 It probably has, in that meal alone, a hundred plus chemicals.

00:28:41.000 I think I'm being conservative.

00:28:43.000 Yeah.

00:28:43.000 At a hospital.

00:28:44.000 It has to do with government contracts.

00:28:46.000 But it's so crazy that hospitals, their diets in hospitals are co-opted.

00:28:51.000 I can't even.

00:28:52.000 My kids.

00:28:54.000 I know I'll be watching this, so I love you guys.

00:28:57.000 It's okay.

00:28:57.000 But they stopped packing their lunches.

00:29:01.000 And I was like, guys, why are we not packing our lunches anymore?

00:29:04.000 And I would watch all the crap that I would buy go bad in the pantry.

00:29:08.000 And my son ratted my daughter out and he's like, she's eating breakfast at school.

00:29:12.000 And I was like, what are you talking about?

00:29:14.000 He's like, the sugar cereal.

00:29:15.000 Who's having that at school?

00:29:17.000 And I was like, what?

00:29:18.000 What are you talking about?

00:29:20.000 Even my kids.

00:29:22.000 Who know better.

00:29:23.000 But isn't that a rebellion against mom, though?

00:29:25.000 Which kids definitely do.

00:29:27.000 Like, my youngest daughter, she jokes around about, she's like, ooh, seed oils.

00:29:31.000 I love seed oils.

00:29:32.000 She'll have salad dressing with seed oil, and she, like, mocks me.

00:29:36.000 I'm like, okay.

00:29:36.000 You eat whatever you want, but just know what it is.

00:29:40.000 I honestly think the kids know what it is.

00:29:44.000 And I try to give them enough freedom now at these ages, you know, 13 to 15. To make some of their own decisions.

00:29:51.000 So not everything is a pushback.

00:29:53.000 But I truly think there is an addictive component.

00:29:57.000 Oh, for sure.

00:29:58.000 And she just, it's like, I'm so good at home.

00:30:00.000 And I don't mean to associate, not good, but I eat well at home.

00:30:04.000 Let's put it that way.

00:30:06.000 And, you know, just at school.

00:30:08.000 I'm just going to do this at school.

00:30:09.000 And the problem, obviously, is when she goes off to college, I won't be able to control the environment at home.

00:30:15.000 And I'm like, honey.

00:30:16.000 Okay, hold on.

00:30:19.000 Forgive me.

00:30:20.000 There's a 20-year-old influencer named Bad Baby, I think.

00:30:25.000 I know who that is.

00:30:27.000 Okay, she saw this girl.

00:30:28.000 That's the lady from Dr. Phil.

00:30:29.000 Yes!

00:30:29.000 Catch me outside.

00:30:30.000 Catch me outside.

00:30:31.000 So she saw this girl when she was like nine and has followed Bad Baby.

00:30:36.000 Bad Baby now has cancer.

00:30:37.000 What?

00:30:38.000 I believe so.

00:30:40.000 For real?

00:30:41.000 According to my daughter.

00:30:43.000 Exactly the point, though.

00:30:44.000 That's exactly the point.

00:30:46.000 And so now I can say to my kids, this isn't just mom's generation, which, how come?

00:30:55.000 There's something else to look at.

00:30:56.000 My mom is 76. None of the public figures in her generation got cancer.

00:31:02.000 You didn't see Susan Sarandon or Scorny Weaver or Meryl Streep.

00:31:05.000 None of them got cancer.

00:31:06.000 But in my generation, it's like Maria Menounos, Christina Applegate, something's going on with Angelina Jolie, Kate Middleton.

00:31:12.000 In my generation, the canary is dead in the coal mine.

00:31:16.000 It's not even a question of the negative impact.

00:31:18.000 If we're not looking at statistics, if we're just looking from an observational perspective, it's in the news every single day.

00:31:25.000 Someone's dealing with cancer.

00:31:26.000 Olivia Munn.

00:31:27.000 Now you're seeing 20-year-olds deal with this.

00:31:30.000 And I was able to point to that to my daughter and say, this is the shit that I am talking about.

00:31:35.000 She's five years older than you.

00:31:36.000 What does that lady have?

00:31:39.000 Does it say?

00:31:41.000 She's claimed that she's got a form of leukemia, I believe, but people...

00:31:45.000 They doubt her?

00:31:47.000 Yeah, for sure they doubt her.

00:31:49.000 Well, she's a little bit kooky, right?

00:31:51.000 Sure.

00:31:52.000 You still can't point to the fact, even if it's not Bad Baby, who may be lying, I'm not sure.

00:31:58.000 I'm actually using that name, Bad Baby.

00:31:59.000 Is it Bad Baby?

00:32:01.000 I said Bad Bunny the other day, and my kids are like, no, that's the rapper.

00:32:05.000 She says she insisted she'd been cleared for surgery.

00:32:08.000 She has no regrets about her cosmetic tweaks.

00:32:10.000 What does a cosmetic tweak have to do with leukemia?

00:32:12.000 I don't know.

00:32:13.000 They're not going to perform plastic surgery on a cancer patient.

00:32:16.000 What?

00:32:17.000 She's getting plastic surgery?

00:32:19.000 What is this article about?

00:32:20.000 Look at the chronic myeloid leukemia piece because that's the part I know about.

00:32:25.000 She, oh, breaks silence on claims she lied about having cancer after being slammed for vaping.

00:32:30.000 Oh, God.

00:32:31.000 Did she lie about it?

00:32:32.000 I was just showing you that.

00:32:33.000 Go back up.

00:32:34.000 I don't know.

00:32:34.000 Because I thought she had like a wig.

00:32:36.000 Go back up, please.

00:32:36.000 My daughter said she lost her hair.

00:32:37.000 21 says currently battling chronic, how do you say that?

00:32:42.000 Myeloid?

00:32:43.000 Myeloid?

00:32:43.000 Leukemia?

00:32:44.000 Yeah.

00:32:44.000 Criticized for getting cosmetic surgery while battling disease, which is pretty crazy.

00:32:49.000 Is that really true?

00:32:50.000 That's the part that...

00:32:51.000 She underwent plastic surgery and challenged rival Alabama Barker to a physical fight, all while battling leukemia.

00:32:59.000 Apparently Alabama Barker did not show up for that fight because my daughter was very disappointed by that.

00:33:03.000 What, they were going to meet somewhere, an actual fight?

00:33:05.000 There was just a meet, I think, in Calabasas and throw down.

00:33:07.000 Oh, boy.

00:33:08.000 The Calabasas throw down.

00:33:10.000 That's right.

00:33:10.000 The classic.

00:33:11.000 Of course.

00:33:11.000 It used to be an Old West shootout.

00:33:13.000 Now it's a Calabasas throwdown between influencers.

00:33:15.000 So there's a hair pulling and all kinds of stuff.

00:33:17.000 But what I can tell you with certainty is that the rate of early on-site cancer diagnosis in people 18 to 49 has gone up 79% over the past two decades.

00:33:29.000 So if, in fact, bad baby is being untruthful and deceitful, those statistics are real.

00:33:36.000 Yes, those statistics are real, and including the big leap since the COVID vaccine was rolled out.

00:33:42.000 You know...

00:33:43.000 I don't have any information on that.

00:33:45.000 There was a doctor that was on the Tucker Carlson show the other day that was saying he's seeing pancreatic cancer in kids for the first time ever in his career.

00:33:53.000 He said, my entire career I never saw pancreatic cancer in children.

00:33:57.000 Okay.

00:33:57.000 I want to play devil's advocate to that argument and simply say the statistic that I just cited I believe came out in 2019.

00:34:06.000 So this is pre-COVID.

00:34:07.000 Oh, I'm not doubting that diet and environmental factors.

00:34:10.000 I think there's a host of different things going on.

00:34:12.000 For sure, there's pesticides and herbicides.

00:34:14.000 That's a major factor.

00:34:16.000 You know, when you look at the fact that 90-plus percent of people have Roundup in their blood, that's crazy.

00:34:23.000 You know, that stuff is linked to chemical warfare from Vietnam.

00:34:26.000 It has a historical connection to Agent Orange.

00:34:30.000 Really?

00:34:30.000 Yeah.

00:34:31.000 Google it.

00:34:31.000 Jamie, check that.

00:34:32.000 But yeah, because I wrote about it in a book.

00:34:33.000 Ugh.

00:34:34.000 I know.

00:34:35.000 That should alarm you.

00:34:36.000 Glyphosate is everywhere.

00:34:37.000 It's so spooky.

00:34:38.000 This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe.

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00:35:44.000 There's no safe like SimpliSafe.

00:35:47.000 And other countries won't even allow its use.

00:35:49.000 Nope.

00:35:49.000 And we spray it on everything.

00:35:50.000 Not only that, we have like corns genetically engineered to be immune to glyphosate so they can just spray the shit out of it.

00:35:56.000 And then you eat that corn and you're getting glyphosate residue.

00:36:00.000 You're just getting it.

00:36:00.000 And it's in your blood.

00:36:02.000 It's in everything.

00:36:03.000 It's in everything.

00:36:04.000 It's in rice.

00:36:05.000 It runs off into the water.

00:36:05.000 It's in wheat.

00:36:06.000 Yeah.

00:36:06.000 It's in the runoff.

00:36:08.000 So it gets in the fish.

00:36:10.000 You know, most freshwater fish have toxic levels of lead.

00:36:16.000 Heavy metals in them?

00:36:17.000 Like most freshwater fish you really probably shouldn't be eating.

00:36:21.000 I knew big predatory fish.

00:36:23.000 Yes, that's in the ocean.

00:36:25.000 But that's heavy metals from the ocean, which is also from us.

00:36:28.000 But that's mercury.

00:36:30.000 But there's toxic levels of heavy metals and pollutants and forever chemicals that are in freshwater fish.

00:36:39.000 Because all that shit that's in the ground gets into lakes.

00:36:42.000 All that shit, all the runoff, all that stuff gets into streams, gets into creeks, gets into rivers.

00:36:49.000 We watched a video when we had...

00:36:54.000 Will Harris from White Oak Pastures on the podcast.

00:36:57.000 And he showed the difference between his regenerative farm that doesn't use any pesticides or herbicides and his neighbor's farm.

00:37:03.000 And there's literally a dividing line in the river where you can see the runoff from his neighbor's farm turns the entire river brown.

00:37:11.000 And it's legal.

00:37:13.000 It's legal to pollute.

00:37:15.000 Of course.

00:37:16.000 Because it's industrial farming.

00:37:18.000 Exactly.

00:37:19.000 But it's crazy.

00:37:20.000 It's just like all that industrial fertilizer, herbicides and pesticides are running off because the topsoil is dead.

00:37:27.000 So all that stuff is running off as soon as it rains and it runs right into the river and you can see a dividing line.

00:37:34.000 There's like clear water on one side and this disgusting brown, dirty water on the right side.

00:37:41.000 Have you seen where it runs from the river into the ocean and creates dead zones that you can see from space?

00:37:47.000 No oxygen.

00:37:47.000 Yeah.

00:37:48.000 Nothing but jellyfish or miles?

00:37:50.000 Well, I have a friend of mine who is a yoga instructor, and he's from Argentina.

00:37:54.000 And he came to America, and no one told him.

00:37:58.000 He was in LA.

00:37:59.000 No one told him, "Don't surf."

00:38:02.000 After it rains.

00:38:04.000 So he was surfing and he didn't understand that all the runoff from all the streets goes into the ocean.

00:38:10.000 He got horribly sick.

00:38:12.000 Yeah.

00:38:12.000 And, you know, he was bedridden and he was like, what the fuck is going on with the ocean?

00:38:17.000 Having grown up in California and spending a lot of time in the water, I have known this for years and now I can't even imagine, by the way, in California who would dare to get in the ocean at this point.

00:38:29.000 Yeah.

00:38:32.000 Crap from the fires.

00:38:34.000 That's a great irony.

00:38:35.000 Oh, yeah.

00:38:36.000 That's my favorite.

00:38:36.000 Oh, we're not doing any forestry mitigation because of the environment, and yet these fires have rolled back all of those protections by something like 20 years.

00:38:46.000 Yeah.

00:38:47.000 Is it just...

00:38:48.000 Well, that ground's ruined forever.

00:38:49.000 Destroyed, and then pours into the ocean.

00:38:51.000 Twice the size of Manhattan, ruined ground.

00:38:54.000 All those people that had electric cars, those cars, those batteries, all that shit, all the plastics.

00:39:01.000 And the fiberglass and carbon fiber, all that stuff, the tires, all that stuff is now in the soil.

00:39:08.000 Good luck having a garden.

00:39:10.000 Good luck.

00:39:11.000 You want to try to grow plants?

00:39:12.000 Good luck.

00:39:14.000 I was talking to, I don't know if you've ever seen this gentleman.

00:39:17.000 He's really great.

00:39:18.000 He wrote a book called Eat to Beat Disease, named Dr. William Lee, and he called me after the fire because I was out there visiting my mom.

00:39:26.000 He's like, where are you?

00:39:28.000 Are you in California?

00:39:29.000 And I was like, I am at the moment.

00:39:31.000 In fact, I'm right here by Palisades.

00:39:33.000 And he said, Jill, do you remember 9-11 dust?

00:39:37.000 That whole thing with all that.

00:39:38.000 I was like, of course I remember.

00:39:40.000 Send me a bunch of articles.

00:39:41.000 And he's like, you've got to get out of there.

00:39:42.000 Get your mom out of there.

00:39:44.000 He's like, it gets in your kids' clothes when they're on their way to school.

00:39:48.000 He goes, we're going to be talking about this 10 years from now, the result of the toxins in this fire and how they've affected people's health.

00:39:55.000 No doubt.

00:39:56.000 No doubt.

00:39:57.000 It's crazy.

00:39:58.000 And it happens twice a year.

00:39:59.000 Yeah.

00:39:59.000 At least.

00:40:00.000 Oh, I was evacuated three times when I lived in L.A. In fact, I lost two homes.

00:40:07.000 One that I owned in 2018 and one that I sold in 21 just actually burnt.

00:40:12.000 It's nuts.

00:40:13.000 It's crazy.

00:40:14.000 Yeah.

00:40:14.000 And nothing's...

00:40:15.000 I mean, what they...

00:40:17.000 Did during the fire was just so insane.

00:40:20.000 The fact that the reservoir was empty.

00:40:23.000 Oh, we need to make a lid for it.

00:40:24.000 We didn't get around to it.

00:40:25.000 For over a year and it hadn't even begun.

00:40:28.000 There were so many things wrong there that I could literally...

00:40:32.000 What's lack of funding, Jillian?

00:40:32.000 They don't have enough money.

00:40:35.000 Have you seen Mike Schellenberger talk about this?

00:40:37.000 Yes, he's great.

00:40:37.000 That will make your blood boil.

00:40:39.000 Yeah, Schellenberger's great.

00:40:41.000 I love him.

00:40:42.000 He's like, we knew about this for seven days with the winds and we could have, you know, we could have borrowed firefighters from all different states and this and that and had them pre-positioned.

00:40:52.000 Karen Bass went to Ghana for a birthday party.

00:40:53.000 Knowing!

00:40:55.000 Knowing!

00:40:56.000 Between Mike Schellenberger and Corolla.

00:40:59.000 Whipping me into a frenzy about this.

00:41:01.000 I literally think I've popped 10 blood vessels because so much of this could have been mitigated and wasn't.

00:41:08.000 And in fact, Gavin Newsom, my favorite politician.

00:41:13.000 He's my favorite podcaster.

00:41:14.000 I wish we'd get back to him.

00:41:15.000 He stopped.

00:41:16.000 I don't know why he stopped.

00:41:17.000 Oh, did he stop?

00:41:17.000 I didn't know that.

00:41:18.000 Yeah, the fucking show was horrible.

00:41:20.000 Oh, God.

00:41:20.000 Everybody was mocking him.

00:41:22.000 It was so bad for him.

00:41:23.000 He had this idea of reaching across the aisle.

00:41:25.000 So he reached across the aisle, and he gets guys like Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon on, and they eat his lunch.

00:41:30.000 And so, and people, I think, in his party, were like, what the fuck are you doing?

00:41:35.000 You're making this look horrible.

00:41:36.000 So he bails on his podcast.

00:41:38.000 When was his last episode?

00:41:39.000 I didn't realize he bailed!

00:41:41.000 Oh, he's back!

00:41:42.000 Yeah, no, we weren't going to get that lucky.

00:41:44.000 I don't think so.

00:41:45.000 Oh, Rahm Emanuel.

00:41:47.000 Okay, that's...

00:41:47.000 Well, now he's with his own side.

00:41:49.000 Scott Galloway.

00:41:50.000 Okay.

00:41:50.000 Pretty much his own side.

00:41:51.000 Yeah.

00:41:52.000 Yeah.

00:41:53.000 Anthony Scarmucci.

00:41:54.000 He hates Trump.

00:41:55.000 That's a good move.

00:41:56.000 Yep.

00:41:56.000 Ezra Klein.

00:41:57.000 Okay, that makes sense.

00:41:59.000 Yeah.

00:41:59.000 So it's not that it's gone away.

00:42:01.000 It's just that it's so horrible nobody's watching it.

00:42:03.000 And no one is even talking about it anymore.

00:42:05.000 Yeah, that might be it.

00:42:07.000 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:42:07.000 Oh, my God!

00:42:10.000 But it was so funny because that was the response after the election.

00:42:14.000 They said, well, podcasts influenced the election, so we'll start our own podcast.

00:42:19.000 Your podcast is going to make people even more inclined to not vote for you.

00:42:24.000 My favorite was, we need our own version of Joe Rogan.

00:42:27.000 I remember when you loved Bernie.

00:42:31.000 You were like, I like the guy.

00:42:33.000 You had Joe Rogan.

00:42:35.000 Joe was on your side.

00:42:39.000 That's the one People from the party.

00:42:43.000 Because it's a cult.

00:42:44.000 It really is.

00:42:45.000 Like leftism.

00:42:47.000 Not being an actual progressive.

00:42:49.000 Like an actual progressive is a person who's kind, who wants people to just exist and be yourself and live amongst us and we should all have social safety net and laws that like are kind and compassionate.

00:43:02.000 We should look at the fact that we are an incredible first world nation and we should like roll out the red carpet to all the people that live here and try to make it a better place.

00:43:12.000 That's real progressivism.

00:43:14.000 And then it morphed into this, like, let perverts get into the women's room.

00:43:20.000 Let men compete in women's sports.

00:43:23.000 And ignore the fact that some people are fucking psychotic and give them a blank check as long as they just say they're a woman.

00:43:30.000 Like, oh, you're a woman.

00:43:31.000 Go ahead.

00:43:31.000 Carte Blanche, get in.

00:43:33.000 Not only that, but treat them better than you treat women themselves because they're actually more oppressed than women.

00:43:38.000 So it's the oppression hierarchy.

00:43:41.000 Right.

00:43:41.000 So they get the gold medal in the oppression Olympics.

00:43:44.000 It's bananas.

00:43:45.000 It is bananas.

00:43:46.000 It really is.

00:43:48.000 That's the stuff where...

00:43:50.000 You look and you say, I was never for any of this.

00:43:54.000 I'm a libertarian.

00:43:56.000 I'm for personal freedoms, of course.

00:43:57.000 If you want to change your gender as an adult, that's absolutely up to you.

00:44:01.000 And I would fight for your right to do that and live with dignity.

00:44:05.000 But when your personal choices impact the rights and the freedoms of others, this is a far more nuanced conversation.

00:44:13.000 Far more.

00:44:16.000 Especially when you're dealing with kids.

00:44:18.000 Oh, that's a whole different piece.

00:44:20.000 This is where it gets really crazy.

00:44:21.000 That's evil.

00:44:22.000 There's this hilarious conversation between this woman who is like, she looks like she's probably in her 70s.

00:44:30.000 And this person's asking her, if you had a granddaughter, would you support them taking puberty blocks?

00:44:37.000 She's like, absolutely.

00:44:39.000 Absolutely.

00:44:40.000 I think it's insane to try to force a girl to go through puberty if she's really a boy.

00:44:46.000 Would you allow them to get a tattoo?

00:44:50.000 Oh, I think that's permanent.

00:44:53.000 No irony.

00:44:55.000 Seconds later, no recognition of what she's saying.

00:44:59.000 Like, tattoos can be removed, lady.

00:45:01.000 I know.

00:45:02.000 Yeah.

00:45:02.000 They can laser those off.

00:45:04.000 Have you noticed, though?

00:45:06.000 They really don't understand it.

00:45:08.000 No.

00:45:08.000 And I got in a conversation with Jessica Tarlov about this, and she's like, oh, but, you know, the kids go through extensive therapy.

00:45:14.000 I'm like, that's not true, Jessica.

00:45:16.000 Or the concept that it's reversible.

00:45:19.000 That's not true.

00:45:20.000 Exactly.

00:45:21.000 Not only is it not true, but puberty blockers are the exact same thing they give to sex criminals.

00:45:25.000 When you have a sexual molester that is forced to be on sterilization drugs, that's exactly what they give to young boys.

00:45:34.000 It sterilizes kids.

00:45:35.000 Yeah, it's the same thing.

00:45:36.000 It takes away sexual function.

00:45:38.000 If you interrupt puberty in the stage 10 or 2. And the reason I bring this up is because they'll tell you it's reversible.

00:45:46.000 But here's the thing.

00:45:48.000 I actually went through this exercise with somebody and I was like, show that to me.

00:45:51.000 And they went on chat GPT and it's like, yes, this is reversible.

00:45:55.000 And the argument is that should you have a child that starts puberty at seven and you use puberty blockers, it's very rare.

00:46:02.000 It can happen.

00:46:03.000 And they do it strategically to slow that down for a child and help them develop at a normal pace.

00:46:09.000 It doesn't sterilize them or make them incapable of having an orgasm.

00:46:13.000 So the distinction that's key is when you block puberty at the stage of 10 or 2, which is arguably the appropriate age that puberty is meant to begin, then you've got sterilization.

00:46:24.000 You've got an inability to ever have an orgasm.

00:46:28.000 It affects bone development.

00:46:29.000 It affects brain development.

00:46:31.000 It's terrible for them.

00:46:34.000 Their friggin'children, their body is not developed.

00:46:40.000 Developed properly.

00:46:41.000 Nobody understands that.

00:46:43.000 They don't, when they make that argument, they're told the parting line of, if you make them go through this, they'll kill themselves.

00:46:50.000 And it turns out that the data doesn't bear out to prove that either.

00:46:54.000 Not only that, it goes the other way.

00:46:56.000 The data goes the other way.

00:46:57.000 It goes the other way.

00:46:58.000 They're 25% more likely to commit suicide, suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety.

00:47:02.000 All those things ramp up once they've transitioned.

00:47:05.000 Because they realize they've made a horrible mistake and they've been influenced by these crazy people.

00:47:10.000 They want to use them as virtue flags.

00:47:14.000 They want to use children as virtue flags.

00:47:16.000 It's fucking insane.

00:47:18.000 They also shouldn't be allowed to call them a different thing than when they call them...

00:47:23.000 They call them chemical castration drugs for sex offenders, but yet they call them puberty blockers.

00:47:30.000 And gender-affirming care.

00:47:31.000 Gender-affirming care.

00:47:32.000 Isn't that lovely?

00:47:33.000 Yeah, it's fucking barbaric and bananas.

00:47:36.000 And we're going to look back at it the same way we looked at lobotomies.

00:47:39.000 You know, we performed lobotomies for, I think, roughly around 50 or 60 years for, I think they stopped it in 1967.

00:47:47.000 I think that's when they stopped the last lobotomies.

00:47:51.000 Then they realize, oh my god, this is a terrible thing to do.

00:47:53.000 But they did it for so fucking long.

00:47:56.000 And this is the same thing that's going to happen with this whole...

00:48:01.000 Gender-affirming care thing for minors.

00:48:03.000 It's crazy.

00:48:04.000 Kids don't know what's going on.

00:48:06.000 You have children.

00:48:07.000 You know what it's like.

00:48:07.000 Oh, yeah.

00:48:07.000 They go through phases and cycles.

00:48:09.000 They become tomboys and boys play with dolls.

00:48:13.000 Like, who cares?

00:48:14.000 By the way, a lot of those boys that want to transition, it turns out they're just gay.

00:48:19.000 And if you just leave them and let them be gay, and a lot of my gay friends fucking hate it because they're like, you're trying to erase gay people.

00:48:26.000 You're trying to say that all these gay people are really in the wrong gender.

00:48:30.000 I've never thought of it from that angle.

00:48:32.000 I have seen the financial component, though.

00:48:36.000 Oh, that's a big problem.

00:48:37.000 It's a multi-billion dollar business.

00:48:38.000 That's where it's evil.

00:48:39.000 And when you look at who's funding this stuff, I remember, my God, I used to go to the friggin' human rights campaign dinners and donate.

00:48:48.000 You know, when you're fighting for gay marriage and I'm a good liberal.

00:48:52.000 And now, when you go to their page, if...

00:48:57.000 They've got a score, and forgive me, I can't remember the friggin' name of it, but there's a score where they rate different medical institutions on how they provide gender-affirming care.

00:49:06.000 And if they get a bad score, it impacts, I think, how much grant money they can get.

00:49:12.000 There's a page for this.

00:49:14.000 I believe it's through the HRC on their website.

00:49:17.000 And when you look at who funds it, Pfizer.

00:49:21.000 Oh, that's not at all surprising.

00:49:23.000 One drug, I think Lupron, is almost a billion-dollar-a-year business.

00:49:27.000 Boy.

00:49:28.000 Off-label.

00:49:29.000 Forgive me, it's been a minute since I've looked into this, but I'm in the zone for sure.

00:49:33.000 Yeah, terrifying stuff.

00:49:35.000 Well, it's just the money thing is so scary because when money gets attached to anything, all ethics and morals go out the window and they just try to make as much money from these things as humanly possible.

00:49:47.000 And they've always done that.

00:49:48.000 They've always done that across the board with virtually everything and we're surprised when it happens with children.

00:49:56.000 I don't know.

00:49:57.000 You and I are surprised.

00:49:59.000 But I think most people are not awake at all about it.

00:50:02.000 No, most people aren't awake at all.

00:50:04.000 And if it doesn't affect them personally, they feel like it's important to espouse these beliefs because these beliefs show that you're a good progressive.

00:50:11.000 Yes, 100%.

00:50:13.000 Yeah, it's like people's minds have been co-opted by...

00:50:16.000 You know, I don't necessarily believe in demons and angels.

00:50:23.000 I don't believe that.

00:50:24.000 But if you were the devil...

00:50:27.000 Like, wouldn't money be your most valuable tool to get people to do absolutely atrocious evil things that are going to ruin their lives?

00:50:34.000 Money is like the devil's...

00:50:36.000 It's like where the devil can convince good people to do things, and then you use words like gender-affirming care, and you can kind of change the narrative.

00:50:48.000 But the end result is really just you're profiting off of people's confusion, and you're doing so in a way where you're sacrificing.

00:50:56.000 It's literal child sacrifice.

00:50:58.000 Those children that wind up committing suicide because they went through this...

00:51:02.000 Gender-affirming care and are horribly depressed and they don't have breasts anymore and they're so confused and they can't have children and they just wind up killing themselves and this is sacrifice.

00:51:13.000 This is like a form of child sacrifice for financial gain.

00:51:16.000 I mean you're not sacrificing them to the gods or to demons.

00:51:19.000 You're doing it to money.

00:51:21.000 And it's really wild that we can't see that.

00:51:24.000 We can't, like, look at all the data and see and understand, like, the complex interaction of human beings and people that are around them that influence them.

00:51:35.000 And, you know, that they get encouragement, and then they get positive feedback, and then they show up at school wearing lipstick, and everyone's like, you're amazing!

00:51:43.000 You're amazing now, Bobby.

00:51:45.000 Now that you're Roberta.

00:51:47.000 Like, now you're amazing.

00:51:48.000 You used to be some guy that got stuffed into a locker.

00:51:50.000 And now your girl is incredible.

00:51:52.000 And you're giving them this positive feedback.

00:51:56.000 And it's money.

00:51:58.000 And people are profiting off of it.

00:52:00.000 It's fucking insane.

00:52:01.000 And it's so wild to watch it all play out and realize, like, we are so vulnerable to influence.

00:52:07.000 Human beings are so vulnerable.

00:52:09.000 I mean, this is why cults exist.

00:52:11.000 This is why people are willing to be religious martyrs and blow themselves up.

00:52:16.000 Which, by the way...

00:52:18.000 Like, why do they do that?

00:52:20.000 Why do they get kids to wear suicide vests?

00:52:22.000 Because you can't convince a 55-year-old guy to do it.

00:52:25.000 A 55-year-old guy with a job and a family and a lot of, you know, interests and good friends.

00:52:30.000 Tough to get him to wear that suicide vest.

00:52:32.000 You know, he's like, what?

00:52:33.000 What am I doing?

00:52:34.000 I'm going to a mall?

00:52:35.000 What the fuck?

00:52:37.000 No, why am I doing that?

00:52:38.000 I'm going to heaven?

00:52:39.000 And I'm going to get 72 virgins?

00:52:41.000 Can you show me these virgins?

00:52:43.000 Like, they're a fucking...

00:52:45.000 What happened to them?

00:52:46.000 How do these poor virgins wind up in heaven just getting raped by this 55-year-old guy who blew himself up?

00:52:51.000 Like, this is fucking insane.

00:52:53.000 Insane.

00:52:53.000 I know.

00:52:54.000 Well, you can't get adults to believe that, but you can get children to believe that.

00:52:57.000 So we don't want to, like, take that same ability to influence and then just transfer it over to children.

00:53:07.000 I'm not quite sure why the human mind is so fragile.

00:53:11.000 Asked myself that so many times.

00:53:14.000 And this is going to sound totally off-piste here, but you brought up demons and what have you, and I just watched that.

00:53:20.000 I didn't read the book, so forgive me, but I watched the documentary on the book, Chaos, on Netflix.

00:53:26.000 Oh yeah, I read the book.

00:53:27.000 Okay.

00:53:28.000 Are you not completely...

00:53:31.000 I cannot wrap my head around how Manson got seemingly normal people.

00:53:39.000 To commit this kind of murder.

00:53:43.000 And when you listen to these women talk about it, they're like...

00:53:47.000 And then I stabbed her 15 times and I felt the knife go into her hip bone.

00:53:53.000 And she looked at me and said...

00:53:55.000 I'm dead.

00:53:56.000 And, like, no emotion.

00:53:58.000 What did you do to this woman's mind?

00:54:00.000 And you can't say she's an outlier because he was able to convince the group of people.

00:54:06.000 I cannot understand this kind of...

00:54:10.000 Well, that's complex.

00:54:12.000 What is that?

00:54:13.000 Is it that?

00:54:15.000 Do you think it's that?

00:54:16.000 No, 100%.

00:54:17.000 That's Jolly West.

00:54:18.000 Jolly West was the CIA operative who visited Manson in jail.

00:54:24.000 He's also the guy that visited Jack Ruby after he shot Kennedy.

00:54:27.000 And then Jack Ruby starts saying, I'm seeing demons and the Jews are on fire.

00:54:31.000 And, you know, Jack Ruby didn't have a history of mental illness like that, like complete psychotic breakdowns.

00:54:37.000 But he did after...

00:54:39.000 Jolly West visited him in jail.

00:54:41.000 Yeah, there's like real documentation about those experiments.

00:54:45.000 One of them is Operation Midnight Climax.

00:54:48.000 So the CIA was operating brothels and they were operating brothels where they would have two-way mirrors and they would be behind the mirrors and these prostitutes who were working for the CIA would give the Johns LSD and then they would observe them.

00:55:04.000 This is all...

00:55:06.000 I knew a little bit about MKUltra, obviously, in that they are using psychedelics to influence people and try to gain mind control.

00:55:13.000 LSD in particular, yeah.

00:55:14.000 Okay, so here's my question, though.

00:55:16.000 This is what I find so fascinating.

00:55:17.000 Do you think that the LSD simply accelerated that mental vulnerability or the ability to warp someone's mind?

00:55:24.000 Because when you tell people now you're going to perform a sex change on a child...

00:55:33.000 They think that's a good idea.

00:55:35.000 And I'll tie it back to one thing that also is seemingly unrelated.

00:55:39.000 Everyone's outraged about RFK.

00:55:41.000 He's not a doctor.

00:55:42.000 Oh my god, he's trying to get to the root of autism and he's misguided about it.

00:55:48.000 Where was your outrage when Xavier Becerra, who's not a doctor, wanted to remove all age limits for sex changes on kids, whether surgery or not, the medicalization component that we talked about?

00:56:00.000 Like, that to me is a group psychosis.

00:56:03.000 I wonder, like, to get an adult to, I'm like, where's your outrage and your concern about this because this is...

00:56:09.000 It's batshit crazy.

00:56:10.000 And nobody said a word.

00:56:12.000 Nobody cared.

00:56:12.000 It went completely under the radar.

00:56:14.000 And I'm just wondering if the ability to capture someone's mind in the way that they did through these CIA studies, did LSD simply accelerate a vulnerability that's already pre-existing and you're watching the brainwashing of people go on over the course of decades?

00:56:31.000 Because if you said this to a person, arguably in Obama's first term.

00:56:36.000 When he ran on gay marriage, that you were going to run sex changes on children in the year 2024, people would have lost their friggin' mind.

00:56:45.000 Right.

00:56:46.000 It's just a complete...

00:56:48.000 They must have been brainwashed, though.

00:56:51.000 Yeah, it is brainwashing.

00:56:52.000 And cults...

00:56:53.000 We all know that cults are real, right?

00:56:55.000 Yes.

00:56:55.000 We all know about...

00:56:56.000 The Manson family.

00:56:58.000 We all know about Jim Jones.

00:56:59.000 We all know about cults.

00:57:00.000 And we know that human beings are very vulnerable to group influence.

00:57:05.000 Now, when you have someone that's actually being trained by people that are psychologists and that understand influence and then also trained in using the implementation of LSD on these people, one of the things that Manson would do...

00:57:21.000 Because he would pretend to take LSD and then he would give it to them and then influence them while they were under the influence and he was sober.

00:57:28.000 And this was all learned through the Harvard LSD studies, which, by the way, created the Unabomber.

00:57:34.000 Ted Kaczynski was a part of the Harvard LSD studies.

00:57:37.000 How do I not know this?

00:57:39.000 I know he was a genius.

00:57:42.000 Well, yeah, there was a bunch of things wrong with him.

00:57:44.000 First of all, when he was a baby, he was severely ill, and they put him in some sort of an infirmary, and he didn't have any.

00:57:53.000 Wow.

00:57:56.000 They just – like when he cried and he's in his crib, they left him there.

00:58:01.000 His brother talked about it.

00:58:02.000 There's a documentary on Netflix about him and his brother talked about – like even before the Harvard LSD studies, they would – he was like really fucked up, really fucked up, complete lack of empathy and just –

00:58:16.000 Yeah, a complete sociopath as a young man.

00:58:19.000 And it would express itself when he would experience rejection from women.

00:58:24.000 He would have, like, violent reactions to that rejection and write them horrific letters and torture them and yell at them.

00:58:32.000 Jesus, it's so scary.

00:58:33.000 And then he goes through the Harvard LSD studies, which a part of his...

00:58:38.000 Particular studies was humiliation.

00:58:40.000 So he would be under the influence and they would humiliate him and they would abuse him and try to get him to a certain state of mind.

00:58:48.000 So then this guy goes off to Berkeley, becomes a professor, and his whole idea is to just make enough money so that he can implement this program.

00:58:58.000 Here's what's crazy about his ideas.

00:59:01.000 He's kind of right.

00:59:02.000 Okay.

00:59:03.000 So he's kind of right, and he thinks that technology is going to replace human beings.

00:59:08.000 Like, he sees this through all of his acid trips, that human beings are going to be replaced.

00:59:15.000 And we probably are.

00:59:16.000 We probably are going to be replaced by AI.

00:59:18.000 We probably are going to be replaced by synthetic life that we create.

00:59:23.000 And we're facilitating that with our reliance on technology.

00:59:27.000 So he decides he's going to live off the grid in a cabin and kill all the people that are involved in technology.

00:59:32.000 A very twisted, distorted reaction to...

00:59:37.000 This thing that we're recognizing as being real in 2025, that we are experiencing.

00:59:43.000 We have AI on our phones now.

00:59:45.000 We're constantly being monitored.

00:59:48.000 We're constantly being surveilled.

00:59:49.000 Your rights are getting very murky because all of your data is being given away.

00:59:53.000 Everybody knows everything about you.

00:59:55.000 It's easy to influence people with algorithms and also with bots.

00:59:59.000 It's being used for political discourse.

01:00:01.000 It's being used for so many different things.

01:00:04.000 You know, we don't want to think that cults can be half the country.

01:00:09.000 But for sure it can be half the country.

01:00:10.000 It can be the whole country.

01:00:11.000 If you live under Sharia law, it's the whole country.

01:00:14.000 Of course.

01:00:15.000 The whole country believes that women have to cover every part of their body except their eyeballs.

01:00:19.000 Yes.

01:00:20.000 And this kind of thinking, we're very vulnerable to groupthink, and especially groupthink that's being intentionally manipulated also, and then being done with psychedelic drugs.

01:00:33.000 Now, they did it during the Manson era because they were trying to stop the anti-war movement.

01:00:38.000 Like the hippies and all these people that were like, hey, make love, not war.

01:00:42.000 We have to change the association that the general public has with these people because too many people are joining up with them.

01:00:49.000 And so what they did was they got the Manson family and they got him to commit these horrific crimes.

01:00:55.000 And every time Charles Manson would get arrested, he would get let out of jail.

01:00:58.000 I mean, he was violating parole left and right.

01:01:00.000 And the cops that arrested him were all being told when they were interviewed, they would say, this is above my pay grade.

01:01:08.000 They're telling me that I have to let him go.

01:01:10.000 So they would be contacted by someone from the State Department or wherever and saying, let him go.

01:01:16.000 I saw that somewhat alluded to in the documentary of like, well, you know, when the one guy, I'm going to botch this, never mind.

01:01:23.000 Bottom line is they generally alluded to that.

01:01:26.000 But because I didn't read the book, there wasn't that kind of in-depth takeaway at all.

01:01:30.000 Yeah, unfortunately the documentaries only look, what, like 90 minutes?

01:01:33.000 Yeah, it's very short.

01:01:34.000 And it draws a connection, but it doesn't prove out its points.

01:01:37.000 And I couldn't quite...

01:01:39.000 I'm like, well, where's the proof of it until you just explained it to me?

01:01:43.000 Tom O 'Neill, the guy who wrote that book, he's been on the podcast before.

01:01:47.000 He was my friend Greg Fitzsimmons' neighbor in New York.

01:01:51.000 And he was writing this 20-plus years.

01:01:55.000 So Greg was his friend when it was happening.

01:02:00.000 So what he was doing is he was writing an article.

01:02:03.000 I think it was for...

01:02:06.000 Vanity Fair or Variety?

01:02:08.000 I forget.

01:02:08.000 But the article was on the anniversary of the Manson killings.

01:02:13.000 And so it was supposed to be just like, hey, this is the anniversary.

01:02:17.000 Just write an article about the facts.

01:02:20.000 So he starts going into the facts of the case and he's like, whoa, wait a minute.

01:02:24.000 And so he starts investigating and he can't investigate enough.

01:02:27.000 And then he gets in trouble because like the deadline's passed and then he gets a book deal and the deadline passes on that.

01:02:33.000 He's just...

01:02:34.000 Completely obsessed with getting to the bottom of this and absorbing more and more information and documenting it all.

01:02:39.000 He's got enough for many books.

01:02:41.000 And I believe he's writing another book right now.

01:02:45.000 That is absolutely insane.

01:02:47.000 Yeah.

01:02:47.000 You know, the huge irony is that these drugs, as we both know, these drugs can save lives.

01:02:54.000 Yeah.

01:02:54.000 And I was just talking to Callie and Brigham, who are involved in the Texas Ibogaine Initiative.

01:03:01.000 And what's so fascinating is...

01:03:03.000 Very different drug.

01:03:04.000 Okay, but what about psilocybin?

01:03:07.000 Also a very different drug.

01:03:08.000 Is it really?

01:03:10.000 Very, very different drug.

01:03:11.000 Yeah, LSD is very different than all of those.

01:03:13.000 So they didn't use psilocybin or ribogaine or any of that stuff?

01:03:15.000 I thought they did.

01:03:16.000 No, not with that, but perhaps you could if you did it correctly, if you knew how to manipulate people.

01:03:21.000 Jolly West was well-versed in manipulation.

01:03:26.000 I mean, this was the whole...

01:03:28.000 It's part of the CIA's program.

01:03:30.000 By the way, it's not just the CIA.

01:03:32.000 It's other intelligence agencies.

01:03:34.000 MI5 was doing it.

01:03:35.000 The UK studies on psychedelics.

01:03:39.000 You could see the videos of British troops on acid.

01:03:44.000 They dosed up these British troops from, I want to say it's the 1950s.

01:03:49.000 Do you know that video, Jamie?

01:03:50.000 You know the video.

01:03:51.000 We've played it before.

01:03:52.000 But these guys are, you know, with full fatigues, just laughing, leaning up against trees, laughing.

01:03:58.000 They gave them LSD.

01:04:00.000 To what end?

01:04:01.000 Well, they want to find out what it does.

01:04:03.000 They thought it was a truth serum.

01:04:04.000 Turns out it's not.

01:04:05.000 Like, well, what can it do?

01:04:07.000 And then so they used people to try to figure out what can be done with it.

01:04:11.000 So, this is 25 minutes late.

01:04:14.000 Let's put your headphones on real quick.

01:04:15.000 Okay.

01:04:16.000 The first effects of the drug became apparent.

01:04:18.000 25 minutes late.

01:04:19.000 The effects of the drug became apparent.

01:04:20.000 The men began to relax and to giggle.

01:04:23.000 But this man was more seriously affected and had to be removed from the exercise.

01:04:29.000 After 35 minutes, one of the radio operators had become incapable of using his set.

01:04:35.000 And the efficiency of the rocket launcher team was also very impaired.

01:04:40.000 Ten minutes later, the attacking section had lost all sense of urgency.

01:04:45.000 Notice the bunching and indecision as they enter a wood occupied by the enemy.

01:04:50.000 Almost immediately, the section commander tried to use a map to find the location of troop headquarters, and a prisoner's escort had to have the way pointed out to him, although it was in plain sight, 700 yards away over open country.

01:05:05.000 Fifty minutes after taking the drug, radio communication had become difficult, if not impossible, but the men are still capable of sustained physical effort.

01:05:14.000 This man nearly succeeded in felling this tree using only a spade.

01:05:20.000 However, constructive action was still attempted by those retaining a sense of responsibility in spite of physical symptoms.

01:05:27.000 But one hour and ten minutes after taking the drug, with one man climbing a tree to feed the birds, The troop commander gave up, admitting that he could no longer control himself or his men.

01:05:42.000 Yeah, so this is one of the first experiments they did with LSD and soldiers.

01:05:49.000 Would you be trying to spray the air over the opposition?

01:05:53.000 I mean, otherwise, what?

01:05:54.000 Well, you could infect their food supply.

01:05:57.000 You could infect their water supply.

01:05:59.000 So using it against your enemy, so to speak.

01:06:02.000 Yeah, you could do that.

01:06:04.000 Okay.

01:06:05.000 I mean, there was also some experiments that they ran.

01:06:09.000 I think it was in St. Louis where they were using a fan and they were spraying things, aerosol spraying to see what kind of effect things would have on people.

01:06:21.000 Like our government, if you give them the license, right?

01:06:25.000 I don't want to say our government.

01:06:27.000 Let's just stop saying that.

01:06:28.000 Let's just say human beings with unchecked power.

01:06:31.000 Human beings with unchecked power, they have an imperative.

01:06:35.000 What are they trying to do?

01:06:36.000 Well, they're trying to figure out what this stuff does and what's the best way to do it.

01:06:40.000 You tried it out on soldiers.

01:06:41.000 They've always done that with vaccines and a bunch of different experimental androgens.

01:06:47.000 They've dosed them up with steroids and all sorts of different things to increase aggression.

01:06:52.000 Methamphetamine was used during the war to get...

01:06:56.000 The Nazis, too.

01:06:58.000 Hitler was tweaked out of his skull.

01:07:00.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:00.000 I've seen that footage of him.

01:07:02.000 I think it was at the Olympics.

01:07:03.000 Yes, 1936 Olympics.

01:07:05.000 Just fucking rocking.

01:07:07.000 Just rocking.

01:07:09.000 I've heard that it did not happen.

01:07:11.000 They propped him up on that to the degree that he was able to subsequently convince Mussolini to jump into the mix.

01:07:18.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:07:19.000 Jesus.

01:07:20.000 Have you ever read Blitzed?

01:07:22.000 No.

01:07:22.000 Do we have it here still, Jamie?

01:07:26.000 Norman Ohler wrote this insane book on the ubiquitous use of drugs during the Third Reich and how it caused them to go through Poland in three days because they stayed up for three fucking days on meth.

01:07:39.000 And they gave the most meth to the people that were driving the tanks because they were at the front.

01:07:43.000 So it was like they gave different doses.

01:07:45.000 Depending on what your job was and they just messed up ran through Poland and they They caught these people just like in France that like their soldiers were given wine So these people were like drunk and then the Nazis came through messed up and just fucking killed everybody You know,

01:08:05.000 I've heard that I don't know if this is true or not.

01:08:07.000 So I I heard that similar things were given Forgive me for throwing this out there.

01:08:12.000 It could be total bullshit.

01:08:13.000 But to Hamas on the October 7th attack in order to be able to commit those kinds of atrocities?

01:08:20.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:08:21.000 I don't know either.

01:08:22.000 I've heard it through friends who are Israeli.

01:08:25.000 It could be bullshit.

01:08:25.000 But I would wonder if you have to commit those kinds of violent acts against another human being.

01:08:34.000 I would imagine you'd have to be...

01:08:37.000 Altered in some capacity.

01:08:39.000 I can't even fathom being able to...

01:08:41.000 I don't know.

01:08:43.000 I can't wrap my head around it.

01:08:44.000 Well, I think human beings are capable of great atrocities without any kind of drugs.

01:08:48.000 One-on-one like that, though?

01:08:50.000 Yeah.

01:08:50.000 Really?

01:08:51.000 Yeah, they do it.

01:08:52.000 I mean, look at Vietnam.

01:08:53.000 Look at the things that people did during Vietnam.

01:08:55.000 I don't think they dosed them up in Vietnam.

01:08:57.000 No, I guess you're right.

01:08:58.000 And, you know, in Vietnam, people were taking heroin and smoking weed, and they were still doing that.

01:09:04.000 People have an...

01:09:05.000 Evil capacity to other other people and decide you see it politically, you know in this country like people on the left Demonize people on the right people on the right will demonize people on the left.

01:09:17.000 It's just like it's a tribal thing that it's it's a An echo of our past, because essentially, when we were small tribes of 150 people, and then you got invaded by a neighboring tribe,

01:09:33.000 you had to be able to commit extreme violence against the other.

01:09:37.000 And you had to be able to think of them as not you.

01:09:40.000 That's not a person.

01:09:41.000 That's them.

01:09:43.000 And you have to be able to go after them.

01:09:46.000 I can understand that broadly.

01:09:47.000 And that's encouraged by the group.

01:09:48.000 Okay, right, fair.

01:09:51.000 Yeah, no, I get it.

01:09:53.000 Some of it is just so visceral and hideous, and I don't mean to bring the vibe down, but it's one thing to kill another human being that I have to, this is how we survive, or whatever it is.

01:10:04.000 We're fighting Nazis, and you don't have a choice.

01:10:05.000 Okay, fair.

01:10:07.000 But to beheads, just that kind of stuff, I just think...

01:10:13.000 Torture, yeah.

01:10:16.000 I often ask, this is going to a very unplanned place, but I ask myself what I'm capable of if somebody hurt my kids or hurt my wife or hurt my mom.

01:10:25.000 What would I be capable of doing?

01:10:27.000 I bet you'd be capable of extreme violence.

01:10:29.000 I think, oh, without question.

01:10:32.000 But I would be capable of it.

01:10:35.000 But I don't like blood.

01:10:36.000 I can't stand blood.

01:10:37.000 I don't like guts.

01:10:37.000 It would make me sick.

01:10:39.000 It would horrify me.

01:10:39.000 So I'm like, how would I?

01:10:40.000 This is the shit that tortures me in the middle of the night when I can't sleep.

01:10:44.000 How far removed am I from this mentality?

01:10:47.000 Am I just a few catastrophes away from losing my mind and becoming a lunatic?

01:10:52.000 Well, that's the appeal of The Walking Dead.

01:10:54.000 Right.

01:10:54.000 The Walking Dead, the zombies become inconsequential.

01:10:58.000 The real problem is people.

01:10:59.000 Yes, that's so true.

01:11:01.000 And I could do a hell of a lot of horrendous things, but I couldn't Some of the torture methods, I don't know.

01:11:09.000 How do you have the stomach for it?

01:11:11.000 Well, like, look at what they did during the Inquisition.

01:11:13.000 You can't say that that was drugs.

01:11:15.000 These were people that just decided they were going to torture people.

01:11:19.000 And they had, you know, they decided they othered people.

01:11:25.000 And this is a really evil aspect of human nature.

01:11:30.000 How do you defend against it, do you think?

01:11:33.000 Seriously, like, if we all have it in us.

01:11:36.000 What is the antidote to that?

01:11:38.000 You have to have a strong army.

01:11:40.000 You have people that can defend you against people that want to do that to people here.

01:11:45.000 And then they have to have a strong ethical and moral foundation where they would never be compromised.

01:11:52.000 Yeah, they have to be the good guys.

01:11:53.000 They have to think that they're the good guys and have a very strong ethical and moral foundation that doesn't allow them to compromise that.

01:12:00.000 It's tough, though, because when people fight dirty, it's such a massive disadvantage that then you think, well, I'm going to lose if I don't make this sacrifice in how I'm behaving or how I'm tackling this.

01:12:11.000 Well, we like to think that we're the good guys, but the biggest thing that's ever been done to human beings that's horrific is the nuclear bomb.

01:12:20.000 Like indiscriminate killing of civilians, hundreds of thousands.

01:12:25.000 Boom!

01:12:26.000 In one shot.

01:12:27.000 Okay, the argument being that you drop it and then the war ends.

01:12:31.000 So it's the lesser of evils.

01:12:35.000 You've sacrificed hundreds of thousands of people in that moment, but did you save millions down the road?

01:12:41.000 Can you justify the behavior utilizing that logic?

01:12:46.000 Well, I committed this atrocity, but I saved more lives.

01:12:48.000 That's the slippery slope that I think about often is, you were just talking about this the other day when...

01:12:55.000 Be careful you don't become a monster when you're fighting monsters.

01:12:59.000 And sometimes it's that firefighting fire conversation.

01:13:03.000 You want to use water, but what if it doesn't work?

01:13:07.000 Sometimes you have to become a monster.

01:13:09.000 Honestly, Joe, I hate to say it, but sometimes you have to.

01:13:13.000 Yeah, if you want to defeat evil, you have to become a monster.

01:13:16.000 Because if you don't, you won't beat it.

01:13:17.000 You have to do horrific things to beat horrific people.

01:13:21.000 You have to kill them, right?

01:13:23.000 Like if someone's invading and they're shooting guns at people and they show up at the beach and they pull up in boats and they start gunning people down, you have to do the same to stop that.

01:13:32.000 You can't like bring out daisies and go, hey guys, like I bake you these pot brownies.

01:13:38.000 Just like, let's just chill.

01:13:40.000 Let's just rethink this, man.

01:13:43.000 Sebastian Younger said this to me once.

01:13:45.000 He's like, listen, if you aren't willing to talk to the worst enemy, you have to fight them.

01:13:49.000 But it's when the talking doesn't work.

01:13:52.000 And you see that all the time.

01:13:53.000 You see, I see it in my own personal life.

01:13:57.000 All of my best intentions and my calmest demeanor and my most empathetic approach to something fails because you're just not dealing with somebody who is rational or well-intentioned.

01:14:10.000 And if you broaden that out...

01:14:12.000 Well, then imagine a language barrier.

01:14:14.000 We have no idea what they're saying.

01:14:15.000 Right.

01:14:16.000 Yeah.

01:14:17.000 And then a cultural barrier where their culture believes that if they die, that they're going to go to heaven and that there'd be a martyr.

01:14:24.000 And so they're willing to do that.

01:14:26.000 They're excited to die and to kill you with them because they believe that the real prize is not in this life.

01:14:35.000 It's in the next life.

01:14:37.000 But we're very vulnerable.

01:14:39.000 We're very vulnerable to this kind of thinking.

01:14:41.000 And I don't know why we're designed this way.

01:14:44.000 I don't either.

01:14:46.000 It's a distortion, probably, of tribal survival primate instincts.

01:14:52.000 You know, you see it with...

01:14:53.000 Have you ever watched Chimp Nation?

01:14:55.000 No.

01:14:55.000 I was actually going to say animals don't have it, but then here we are.

01:14:58.000 Oh, they do.

01:14:59.000 Really?

01:14:59.000 Oh, for sure.

01:15:00.000 I mean, I know lions will kill, and they're territorial.

01:15:02.000 But the capacity for torture, I've never seen that in the animal kingdom.

01:15:08.000 That kind of...

01:15:09.000 You ever see a cat with a mouse?

01:15:11.000 Okay.

01:15:12.000 Yeah, I guess I have.

01:15:13.000 Yeah, they torture mice.

01:15:14.000 They hold on to them, and then they let them go, and the mouse is like, oh, Jesus is going to let me go.

01:15:18.000 Like, not today, motherfucker.

01:15:20.000 And then they torture them and want to keep playing with them.

01:15:23.000 Yeah, they have zero empathy.

01:15:24.000 Cats are the worst.

01:15:26.000 They have zero empathy, especially house cats, because they're well-fed, right?

01:15:31.000 So they're not doing it for food.

01:15:32.000 They're just doing it because they have instincts to kill.

01:15:36.000 These instincts are being...

01:15:39.000 They're being distorted, right?

01:15:41.000 Because the real instinct that they have to kill is so that they can survive.

01:15:45.000 But when they're fully fed, they don't turn those instincts off.

01:15:49.000 Now they just have this kill drive that's never satiated.

01:15:53.000 And cats are the perfect killer.

01:15:57.000 They move so fast.

01:15:58.000 They're so stealthy.

01:15:59.000 They have it from the time they're kittens.

01:16:01.000 You see them crawl up to each other very slowly.

01:16:04.000 They jump on each other.

01:16:05.000 I'm thinking about our cat, actually, as you're talking.

01:16:08.000 When we lived in Miami, he would use the dog door and he would bring in iguanas.

01:16:14.000 This big.

01:16:15.000 Isn't it crazy?

01:16:18.000 My wife would be like, honey!

01:16:20.000 Chasing this fucking iguana around the house.

01:16:23.000 It was ridiculous.

01:16:24.000 He wouldn't kill it.

01:16:26.000 No, they're not trying to kill it.

01:16:28.000 They're having fun.

01:16:28.000 He was having fun.

01:16:30.000 You have a little murderer that you live with.

01:16:32.000 Yeah.

01:16:33.000 You little bastard, but yes.

01:16:34.000 That's what cats are, you know?

01:16:36.000 And that's a part of their essence.

01:16:38.000 I mean, they are the cleanup crew.

01:16:40.000 They're there to make sure the populations don't get out of control.

01:16:43.000 God, you bring up such a great point.

01:16:45.000 You ever see the numbers on cats, like domestic cats, what they kill every year?

01:16:48.000 The birds, I know they kill a crazy amount.

01:16:51.000 Billions.

01:16:52.000 Billions?

01:16:53.000 Billions.

01:16:54.000 Billions of birds and billions of rodents.

01:16:58.000 Let's look at the numbers.

01:16:59.000 We brought it up before, but it's worth repeating because it's kind of crazy.

01:17:05.000 So it sort of illustrates this point.

01:17:07.000 So this is like...

01:17:08.000 Billions?

01:17:09.000 Yes.

01:17:10.000 B. With B. I didn't even know they were that many house cats.

01:17:14.000 Oh, they don't have to be.

01:17:15.000 They kill hundreds.

01:17:16.000 Each cat.

01:17:17.000 Feral cats are ruthless.

01:17:19.000 House cats, feral cats, wild cats, any cat that's outside.

01:17:22.000 Yeah, they instantly kill.

01:17:25.000 Okay, here it is.

01:17:26.000 Domestic cats, a leading cause of bird deaths in the United States, estimated to kill 1.3 and 4 billion birds annually.

01:17:33.000 This includes both pet cats and cats that roam outdoors and feral cats.

01:17:39.000 American Bird Conservancy estimates that free-ranging cats kill approximately 2.4 million.

01:17:44.000 It's hard to know what the real numbers are, but they know it's in the billions.

01:17:49.000 It's in the billions.

01:17:50.000 Imagine how many birds there would be if cats didn't do that.

01:17:53.000 Who's going to kill them?

01:17:55.000 The sky would be filled with birds.

01:17:57.000 You'd go outside and you'd get shit on everywhere.

01:18:00.000 It's kind of crazy.

01:18:01.000 When you do look back at the plague and they started killing all the cats because they were associated with witches and that's when the plague was able to run more rampant because the cats were keeping that rat population down and the fleas on the rats caused...

01:18:15.000 Well, that's the coyote problem in California, right?

01:18:18.000 People are like, oh, I hate coyotes.

01:18:20.000 Right.

01:18:20.000 But do you hate coyotes more than you hate rats?

01:18:23.000 Because coyotes are the reason why rats aren't everywhere.

01:18:26.000 Where I used to live, there was a lot of coyotes, but I don't see very many rats.

01:18:33.000 And that's the reason why.

01:18:36.000 The wolves, the little wolves, which is what a coyote is, a small wolf, they're rat killers.

01:18:42.000 And rabbit killers and everything else they get a hold of.

01:18:45.000 I mean, it's obvious that they're playing a role in this control.

01:18:51.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:18:52.000 Because everyone in California just thinks they ate my Pomeranian.

01:18:56.000 Oh, they probably did.

01:18:58.000 And they probably did.

01:18:59.000 They ate my daughter's puppy.

01:19:03.000 But a mountain lion ate one of my dogs when I lived in Colorado.

01:19:07.000 Cats are motherfuckers.

01:19:10.000 And predators, at least predators are doing it for food.

01:19:15.000 As a child, I lost a dog to a coyote.

01:19:19.000 To this day, I don't hate coyotes.

01:19:22.000 It's like, well, the dog was in the yard and we didn't coyote-proof the yard enough.

01:19:25.000 Let's...

01:19:26.000 Fucking coyote-proof the yard now.

01:19:27.000 You can't really coyote-proof your yard either.

01:19:29.000 I had a coyote kill a chicken in my yard.

01:19:31.000 We had a six-foot-tall wrought iron fence.

01:19:34.000 With the rollers on it?

01:19:35.000 No, we didn't have the rollers.

01:19:36.000 But the coyote, with the chicken in its mouth, leaped to the top like a ballerina.

01:19:42.000 It was so elegant.

01:19:44.000 I was really impressed with its athleticism.

01:19:47.000 As a person who admires physical feats, I was like, that's very impressive.

01:19:53.000 With a chicken in its mouth, leaped...

01:19:55.000 It's fucked up to the top of the fence, got its paws on it, went over just so gracefully and so adept.

01:20:02.000 It was really impressive.

01:20:03.000 Okay, fair.

01:20:05.000 I guess animals do have a propensity for cats in particular.

01:20:09.000 I did not think of it that way.

01:20:11.000 That makes me feel a little better.

01:20:12.000 The cat thing is fucked up because they're not even doing it for food.

01:20:15.000 But it's like that thing inside of them has been...

01:20:18.000 It's there.

01:20:20.000 You can't...

01:20:21.000 Satisfy it with just food.

01:20:22.000 I mean, they literally are the cleanup crew for nature.

01:20:27.000 That's what they are in Africa.

01:20:28.000 When you see them, they're looking for the wounded antelopes.

01:20:31.000 They're looking for anybody who's old.

01:20:32.000 They're looking for anybody who just can't run fast enough.

01:20:35.000 And that's what they do.

01:20:36.000 And that's how they keep the populations down.

01:20:38.000 You know, this is the reason why they've reintroduced wolves into Colorado and that's the reason why they reintroduced wolves in Montana and the elk populations decreased significantly because the elk populations were out of control.

01:20:50.000 Right.

01:20:50.000 So they brought in wolves and the wolves like radically dropped the population down.

01:20:55.000 And they even do surplus killing where they'll kill a bunch of things where they can't eat but just that they can't help themselves.

01:21:01.000 They have the opportunity to kill and so they do.

01:21:05.000 So what is the antidote to this within the human population?

01:21:10.000 Because I see the necessity for survival, but it can make you quite depressed if you let it.

01:21:18.000 It can make you a bit nihilistic.

01:21:21.000 And fighting for the hope and the good is so...

01:21:25.000 My mom says that to me all the time, because when I try to show her some of the things you and I talked about in the beginning...

01:21:32.000 And I'm like, don't you see?

01:21:33.000 And this is rigged.

01:21:34.000 And who's really pulling the strings?

01:21:36.000 And these are bad guys.

01:21:37.000 And she's like, honey, I'm 76. Like, leave me alone.

01:21:41.000 And that's fine.

01:21:42.000 I want to...

01:21:43.000 There's nothing wrong with that.

01:21:44.000 You know, she's like, I want to see the good in people.

01:21:47.000 Try to see...

01:21:48.000 Mr. Rogers, look for the helpers.

01:21:50.000 But you can fall into really becoming nihilistic about humanity when you...

01:22:01.000 Witness these things and have these conversations.

01:22:03.000 And I try so hard to not go there in my head.

01:22:05.000 But it's hard not to.

01:22:07.000 Well, we are primitive.

01:22:09.000 And I've become that way.

01:22:09.000 We're a primitive evolving species.

01:22:12.000 And we're still trapped with these primate bodies.

01:22:16.000 We're territorial primates with weapons.

01:22:20.000 And we're still trapped with the same instincts that got us to the dance.

01:22:25.000 The same instincts that caused us to create walled cities.

01:22:29.000 You know, allowed us to survive.

01:22:30.000 And then agriculture, which allowed us to develop surpluses.

01:22:35.000 And then people wanted those surpluses.

01:22:36.000 Nomads.

01:22:37.000 And they came in.

01:22:38.000 The roving barbarians.

01:22:39.000 The Mongolian hordes.

01:22:41.000 You know, this is like all part of our history.

01:22:44.000 And this is the battle of good versus evil.

01:22:48.000 And the battle of good versus evil, I think this duality has to exist.

01:22:52.000 I think you have to have good to combat evil and you have to have evil to keep good in check, like to enhance good and to force people to really rise and to innovate and to figure out how to defeat evil.

01:23:07.000 Without evil and without...

01:23:10.000 The idea of these hordes, we never would have developed cities.

01:23:13.000 If we never developed cities, we never would have gone through the Industrial Revolution.

01:23:16.000 We wouldn't develop cities if we were just roving, peaceful, nomadic hunter-gatherers.

01:23:23.000 We would be the same.

01:23:25.000 It serves its purpose.

01:23:26.000 I've read all my Khalil Gibran.

01:23:28.000 It's like, oh, you know, the deeper your pain, the more ability you have for empathy.

01:23:34.000 I get all of it, but it's seemingly imbalanced now.

01:23:38.000 And I guess that's what I mean.

01:23:39.000 It's always like that, but that is what causes people to strive to do better.

01:23:44.000 I hope you're right, Joe.

01:23:46.000 I think it is.

01:23:47.000 You're definitely one of those guys, which is why, bringing it back to the very beginning, I think that you're number one, but I also think you're one out of quite a few.

01:24:00.000 I hope you're right.

01:24:01.000 You have to have principles that you live your life by.

01:24:06.000 Right?

01:24:07.000 And be aware of evil, but do your best to be good.

01:24:12.000 Yeah.

01:24:12.000 And you see the fight.

01:24:14.000 Without evil, you have no desire to be good.

01:24:17.000 Why be wonderful?

01:24:20.000 Why be kind?

01:24:21.000 There's no contrast.

01:24:23.000 There's nothing you're fighting against.

01:24:26.000 This is, unfortunately, what motivates entropy.

01:24:29.000 What makes you choose, though?

01:24:31.000 Okay, so another thing that I've thought about often is like...

01:24:34.000 Evil never stops going.

01:24:36.000 Have you ever heard that good has to decide when it gets out of bed in the morning?

01:24:42.000 You're on the freeway and someone is broken down on the side of the freeway and it's like, are you late for something?

01:24:50.000 Are you worried?

01:24:51.000 There are a million things that will influence whether or not I stop that day.

01:24:54.000 But a bad guy will always see an opportunity to go after that person.

01:25:00.000 Evil works.

01:25:01.000 Tirelessly and good requires a sacrifice.

01:25:05.000 You sacrifice yourself.

01:25:10.000 Too dark of a conversation.

01:25:18.000 It's like, that's it.

01:25:19.000 No more of this dark shit.

01:25:22.000 Is it back now?

01:25:23.000 Oh, yep.

01:25:24.000 That's weird.

01:25:25.000 I didn't even touch it.

01:25:27.000 Okay, I'm back.

01:25:28.000 It's evil.

01:25:29.000 Evil's trying to stop me from saying, the moment I'm saying there's more good than there is evil.

01:25:35.000 The mic disconnects.

01:25:36.000 Yeah, I think, unfortunately, evil can co-op people, and because good people can become evil when they experience so much evil that they have to become, you know, become a monster, fight against monsters.

01:25:46.000 I'm seeing it even in the health space.

01:25:52.000 Sometimes Brigham is dealing with the FDA stuff right now.

01:25:56.000 I was talking to him this morning and he's like, Jillian.

01:25:58.000 He's talking about trying to compound peptides and there's a war on peptides and there's a war on stem cells.

01:26:05.000 And of course, it's like the cutting edge of medicine.

01:26:08.000 But he's describing what they're going up against in dealing with this.

01:26:12.000 And it's evil.

01:26:14.000 Why would you want to prevent these life-saving treatments?

01:26:18.000 Well, that's a perfect example.

01:26:19.000 That's money.

01:26:20.000 And if money is the devil, that's a perfect example.

01:26:24.000 How much do you need, though, Joe?

01:26:26.000 That's my question.

01:26:27.000 It's not you, though.

01:26:28.000 The problem is...

01:26:29.000 Corporations, I'm sure you've seen this before, corporations behave like a psychopath, right?

01:26:35.000 Because corporations don't have humanity.

01:26:37.000 And when you have a corporation, which I don't know how we get away from not having corporations, so what's the solution there?

01:26:44.000 But corporations have an obligation to their shareholders.

01:26:47.000 And sometimes you have to do fucked up things in order to make more money.

01:26:52.000 And that's when you're in the business of drugs.

01:26:55.000 If you're in the business of making movies, I mean, what fucked up things can you do to make more movies and make movies that more people are going to see?

01:27:03.000 Really nothing.

01:27:04.000 It's like you just have to make them.

01:27:06.000 Resonate with people.

01:27:07.000 But if you're selling drugs, well, boy, you can influence people.

01:27:10.000 You can lie about studies.

01:27:12.000 You can have your scientists perform studies and then throw out all the studies that don't jive with whatever you're trying to sell.

01:27:19.000 Compounding.

01:27:21.000 Pharmacies kicking them out.

01:27:22.000 Yeah, you compromise all these politicians and get them to repeat your narratives.

01:27:27.000 That should be illegal, though.

01:27:28.000 Oh, yeah.

01:27:29.000 That should be illegal.

01:27:30.000 You should be able to get rid of Citizens United.

01:27:32.000 But the problem is it's not.

01:27:33.000 So how do you get it out?

01:27:35.000 You gotta reform campaign finance.

01:27:37.000 Do you remember many moons ago?

01:27:39.000 I believe it was John Edwards who was running on that many moons ago.

01:27:44.000 But as a kid, I didn't fully understand what that meant.

01:27:47.000 As an adult, no one's ever brought that, I mean, kind of, Ronnie.

01:27:51.000 Here's step one.

01:27:52.000 You gotta say they can't advertise.

01:27:55.000 They can't do it.

01:27:58.000 Advertising is not really the problem.

01:27:59.000 It's part of the problem.

01:28:01.000 But the real problem is when they advertise, and Callie Means talked about this extensively, now the media will not criticize them because they're responsible for an enormous percentage of their income.

01:28:10.000 70 plus percent.

01:28:11.000 But the issue, I had this conversation recently, and the issue is going to be freedom of speech here.

01:28:16.000 It's going to be a First Amendment fight.

01:28:18.000 But that's not a First Amendment thing.

01:28:19.000 They're going to argue it is, Joe.

01:28:20.000 Because you could still do it on social media.

01:28:22.000 you could still like make your own podcast if you're Pfizer.

01:28:25.000 That's the angle they're going to take.

01:28:27.000 I am sure of it.

01:28:28.000 Right. But you can't advertise for cigarettes on television.

01:28:32.000 Kids, I think.

01:28:34.000 I think it's kids.

01:28:35.000 I've heard this conversation, and I'm trying to remember who one of the researchers was, but Callie was there, Mark Hyman was there, and they were having this exact conversation, and one of the people on the other side was suggesting that they have already gamed this out,

01:28:51.000 and that's...

01:28:52.000 The way that they're going to go.

01:28:54.000 Well, ironically, this is self-sabotage for the media itself because no one takes them seriously anymore because they don't do that.

01:29:01.000 Because they don't criticize the pharmaceutical drug companies.

01:29:04.000 They don't talk about vaccine side effects.

01:29:06.000 They don't talk about pharmaceutical drug side effects.

01:29:09.000 They don't.

01:29:09.000 They make you look like you're insane when you do.

01:29:11.000 You're a crazy person.

01:29:12.000 I was on CNN talking about Ozempic one time and they essentially called me anti-science because I suggested that a lot of the drugs, yeah, I was like, whoa!

01:29:22.000 Like, when we give people statins and we give people blood pressure medication...

01:29:25.000 Don't look at the fucking data on statins, by the way.

01:29:28.000 I...

01:29:28.000 I was...

01:29:29.000 Initiating that conversation.

01:29:32.000 And I was called anti-science.

01:29:35.000 That's not even anti-science.

01:29:36.000 They don't understand the data.

01:29:38.000 They won't even allow you to express that on the show anymore.

01:29:43.000 They're never again invited on CNN.

01:29:47.000 Because they're compromised.

01:29:48.000 It's not really news.

01:29:49.000 It's only the news that they feel compelled to talk about.

01:29:55.000 Due to their financial interests.

01:29:56.000 Yeah, they buy the narrative.

01:29:57.000 But the problem with that, like, look at the ratings on CNN.

01:29:59.000 They're fucking collapsing.

01:30:00.000 And they're in a spiral.

01:30:02.000 Why?

01:30:03.000 Because no one trusts them anymore.

01:30:05.000 So the public trust has been eroded because of their own desire to make more money.

01:30:10.000 There's an opportunity where a network wanted me to compete against these GLP-1 drugs.

01:30:17.000 And everyone loves the idea.

01:30:19.000 But the top concern is, oh, what if Jillian wins?

01:30:24.000 And then it'll be a catastrophe.

01:30:26.000 So the ad sales department is like, I don't know that we can do this.

01:30:30.000 We can't call it Jillian versus.

01:30:31.000 We can't call it that.

01:30:32.000 What are we going to call it?

01:30:33.000 I don't know how we're going to position this.

01:30:35.000 I was like, we don't even need to bash it.

01:30:37.000 Let me just do my job.

01:30:38.000 Let's see what happens.

01:30:40.000 But they're even afraid.

01:30:41.000 God forbid I won and was able to do it naturally.

01:30:46.000 Do you think there's an argument for GLP-1 drugs, though, for people who are morbidly obese?

01:30:51.000 Because I kind of do.

01:30:52.000 Okay, so here's where I've gotten to.

01:30:54.000 On all medications, largely, it's a cost-benefit analysis.

01:31:00.000 So if you brought an individual who was morbidly obese and already had atherosclerosis and type 2 diabetes and chronic kidney disease, and you said, we've tried everything, they're a death's door, and this is arguably the last step.

01:31:17.000 Well, in that case, the downsides of the medications are Far less than not trying it.

01:31:25.000 So in that instance, you could twist my arm for sure.

01:31:29.000 But if you gave me my way, I would prefer to look at what the medications like ibogaine or psilocybin could do for the psychological component, the addictive component.

01:31:42.000 One treatment.

01:31:43.000 Doesn't go on forever.

01:31:45.000 And then, because diet and exercise do work, what's stopping them from engaging in those habits consistently is all the stuff we talked about in the beginning, the psychological component, the physical addiction.

01:31:57.000 So, you know, no one's ever tried it, though.

01:31:59.000 So there's no way to actually know.

01:32:01.000 And you can't, it's almost impossible to do the research on it, which is, again, why the Texas Ibogaine Initiative is so important.

01:32:09.000 Because you can begin this kind of research, although it is in veterans and addiction and so on.

01:32:12.000 But would that be the first step?

01:32:14.000 And when I've asked the people in the space, like Matt Shepard, for example, who, is it Shepard Pratt?

01:32:21.000 And one of the guys that's the foremost experts on psilocybin and treating addiction, he's like, yeah, theoretically, it would work great.

01:32:29.000 Theoretically.

01:32:30.000 So for me, if we got all the way to this place and I had no choice, that's like saying, Jill, if someone had stage 4 cancer, would you do chemo?

01:32:38.000 I mean, I guess so.

01:32:39.000 But I'd like to, if there was an alternative way forward, or if we could prevent it to begin with, that would be ideal.

01:32:45.000 So you could twist my arm to that point.

01:32:47.000 I think there's something to be said for, again, what Brigham is doing at Ways to Well, which is why being able to compound the GLP-1 drugs allows you to titrate the dose.

01:32:57.000 So when people argue with me on this matter, they'll suggest that a titrated dose, a lesser amount of these drugs can be effective with significantly less side effects.

01:33:06.000 But when they're trying to block that and you can't even explore it.

01:33:11.000 Yeah.

01:33:12.000 It's all weird because I think the problem also is competition, right?

01:33:17.000 If Ibogaine becomes ubiquitous and these clinics become everywhere, the real issue becomes...

01:33:24.000 How much does that compete with the pharmaceutical drug market's value?

01:33:29.000 How much does that decrease their ability to profit?

01:33:33.000 And it's probably significantly.

01:33:35.000 I mean, if it impacts antidepressants alone, that's significant.

01:33:40.000 If one treatment could have the impact on obesity that it does on opioid addiction...

01:33:50.000 GOP-1s are the most profitable drug of all time.

01:33:53.000 But here's the thing.

01:33:54.000 If they do allow the use of Ibogaine and then also allow the use of psilocybin, if more people start taking it, more people are not going to buy whatever the pharmaceutical drug companies are selling.

01:34:06.000 And they'll just naturally sort of deteriorate.

01:34:08.000 You're always going to have fools.

01:34:10.000 You're always going to have people that just want to, what do I take?

01:34:13.000 I'll take it.

01:34:14.000 There's always going to be people like that.

01:34:17.000 And those people are there to give you a lesson without you having to fall prey to the folly that they have fallen prey to.

01:34:27.000 I think that's the same with a lot of addictions.

01:34:30.000 Particularly gambling addiction.

01:34:31.000 I'm in Vegas all the time, and I don't gamble.

01:34:34.000 I've played blackjack for fun, but like 20 bucks here, $100.

01:34:39.000 I don't get it.

01:34:40.000 But I see it.

01:34:41.000 I see it.

01:34:42.000 I see that crazed look.

01:34:44.000 I think gambling addiction is one of the weirder ones.

01:34:47.000 I've been around it a good portion of my life.

01:34:51.000 And it's the sweaty fucking faces, this need to gamble is really nuts.

01:34:58.000 And that's another part of the human reward system that's been hijacked.

01:35:03.000 The intermittent rewarding is the most powerful.

01:35:06.000 It's crazy.

01:35:07.000 That's the study I've ever seen with the rats, where they push the button, no food comes out.

01:35:11.000 Push the button, food comes out.

01:35:12.000 So the ones that get the intermittent food reward will sit there and push that damn button until they collapse of exhaustion.

01:35:18.000 The ones that push for a little while, get nothing, give up.

01:35:21.000 The ones that push until they get food every time, get full and give up.

01:35:24.000 It's slot machine logic.

01:35:25.000 It's the same thing.

01:35:26.000 It's that intermittent reinforcement.

01:35:28.000 It's exceptionally powerful.

01:35:29.000 Easy to manipulate.

01:35:30.000 We're weird creatures.

01:35:32.000 I know.

01:35:33.000 And again, it's all our survival instincts.

01:35:35.000 Get hijacked.

01:35:36.000 But if you gave them an alternative path when they are ready for help.

01:35:42.000 Right.

01:35:42.000 When the horse is ready to drink and you had an alternative method that we're seeing work.

01:35:48.000 Yes.

01:35:49.000 Well, that's the thing.

01:35:50.000 You have to have freedom of the use of these alternative methods.

01:35:53.000 And I think naturally, those would overcome.

01:35:56.000 They would succeed.

01:35:58.000 I think you'd still probably have gambling addicts.

01:36:00.000 You still probably would have people that want to take...

01:36:03.000 All the pharmaceutical drugs, like whatever the doctor wants to prescribe to them.

01:36:06.000 But it would be less and less.

01:36:07.000 And they don't want that, which is why you're seeing the pushback from the FDA with peptides and all these different things.

01:36:13.000 It's because they're concerned that if you give people a bunch of things that are going to make them healthy, they're not going to take as many pharmaceutical drugs.

01:36:19.000 I mean, which is why there's no model for prevention in healthcare.

01:36:23.000 It's not profitable at all.

01:36:26.000 But it's ridiculous.

01:36:27.000 There's a peptide called cerebralizing.

01:36:30.000 That they give to stroke patients in other parts of the developed world that can have a massive impact as well on cognitive function and can be neuroprotective.

01:36:40.000 You can't even buy it here.

01:36:42.000 Literally, I had to find it in Austria, ship it into the country, and Brigham and Dr. Rexford, I was like, now what do I do with this?

01:36:52.000 He's freaking about to walk me through how to use it on freaking FaceTime.

01:36:57.000 It's ridiculous.

01:36:59.000 It is insane.

01:37:00.000 It's pretty crazy.

01:37:02.000 By the way, there's a new stroke drug that I actually just sent my friend Rich because our friend Keith Robinson, I don't have his number, but he suffered from a stroke.

01:37:11.000 And there's some new drug that I'll send this to you, Jamie.

01:37:16.000 These UCLA scientists.

01:37:19.000 Oh, you got it already.

01:37:21.000 They developed first drug rehabilitation to repair brain damage.

01:37:25.000 The drug replicated the recovery of movement control produced by rehab in mice.

01:37:30.000 Oh, that's cool.

01:37:31.000 Yeah, so this is March 18th.

01:37:34.000 A new study by UCLA Health has discovered what researchers say is the first drug to fully reproduce the effects of physical stroke rehabilitation in model mice following from human studies.

01:37:47.000 Yeah.

01:37:48.000 Which is wonderful.

01:37:50.000 So this is the benefit of pharmaceutical drugs.

01:37:54.000 There are some pharmaceutical drugs that are wonderful.

01:37:56.000 So the goal is to have a medicine that stroke patients can take that produces the effects of rehabilitation.

01:38:02.000 Dr. S. Thomas Carmichael, the study's lead author and professor and chair of UCLA Neurology, rehabilitation after stroke is limited in its actual effects because most patients cannot sustain the rehab intensity needed for stroke recovery.

01:38:16.000 Further, stroke recovery is not like Most other fields of medicine where drugs are available to treat the disease, such as cardiology, infectious disease, or cancer.

01:38:24.000 Carmichael said rehabilitation is a physical medicine approach that has been around for decades.

01:38:28.000 We need to move rehabilitation into an era of molecular medicine.

01:38:32.000 So this is why, you know, you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

01:38:36.000 It's always like that, though.

01:38:38.000 Everything is a U-shaped curve.

01:38:39.000 There's drugs that the pharmaceutical drug companies make that help people and heal them and fix them and save their lives.

01:38:46.000 I couldn't agree with you more.

01:38:48.000 It's great.

01:38:49.000 It's like, but it is.

01:38:50.000 But you have to contain them.

01:38:52.000 Just like you have to, you know, keep your kids from eating all the sugar.

01:38:54.000 Completely.

01:38:55.000 Yeah.

01:38:55.000 I mean, I just got a whooping cough.

01:38:57.000 And Joe, I literally thought I was going to die.

01:39:02.000 I ended up at week seven.

01:39:05.000 I called my internist and I was like, I think you need to check me in the fucking hospital.

01:39:08.000 This is insane.

01:39:09.000 I think I'm going to die.

01:39:10.000 And they hit me with the horns.

01:39:12.000 And the long story short is I am vaccinated for it, but I guess my vax or my...

01:39:17.000 My vaccination or my booster is old.

01:39:19.000 I don't even remember the last time I got it.

01:39:21.000 My wife is vaccinated.

01:39:22.000 My kids are vaccinated for it.

01:39:23.000 My mom is vaccinated for it.

01:39:24.000 Everybody in my circle is vaccinated.

01:39:27.000 No one got it.

01:39:29.000 I...

01:39:30.000 I strongly recommend getting your DTaP vaccine because whooping cough, it was a hundred days of it.

01:39:38.000 So my point being, I don't want the COVID vaccine, and I don't need it.

01:39:44.000 But in any universe for me personally, I would...

01:39:48.000 If I would have known I was behind on that booster, it's like everything has a cost-benefit analysis.

01:39:53.000 Everything, it's like the dose is what makes the poison.

01:39:57.000 Everything is that U-shaped curve.

01:39:59.000 And approaching it with nuance.

01:40:02.000 Is really the only intelligent way forward to make the best decisions for yourself.

01:40:06.000 But you need the right information to do that.

01:40:07.000 Right, and we need to have actual access to data.

01:40:10.000 And this is a real problem that we've had in the last few decades because there's been this revolving door between the FDA and pharmaceutical drug companies.

01:40:20.000 So people were there, I think it's like seven out of eight heads of the FDA went on to work for pharmaceutical drug companies.

01:40:26.000 Revolving door, 100%.

01:40:27.000 So you've developed these relationships with these pharmaceutical drug companies where they're funding the studies, they're funding all, and then you leave and then you go to work for them and you get a nice, cozy job.

01:40:38.000 I can make it worse.

01:40:43.000 When I was at the Senate testimony, I can't remember how many months ago that was, but Calumene's had us meeting with different senators and their aides, and a kid came up to me, and I, of course, brought that up, and he's like, it's so much worse than that.

01:40:56.000 And I was like, elaborate.

01:40:57.000 What do you mean it's so much worse than that?

01:40:59.000 And he said, essentially, they develop the drug, have stock in the company, go to work at the FDA, approve the drug, and go back to the drug company.

01:41:10.000 I was like, oh, there's another step.

01:41:14.000 Got it!

01:41:16.000 It's so great.

01:41:16.000 It should be completely illegal.

01:41:19.000 Yeah.

01:41:20.000 I mean, you want to talk about a conflict of interest.

01:41:22.000 That's the biggest conflict ever.

01:41:23.000 And you're dealing with billions of dollars in profit.

01:41:28.000 I was working on a book or have been working on a book where it looks at each and every law that was put into place with good intentions.

01:41:37.000 The road to hell is paved with good intentions and how each and every one was co-opted by Big Food or Big Ag or Big Pharma to wreak complete havoc and destruction.

01:41:47.000 And that's what you see.

01:41:49.000 That's what you're saying.

01:41:50.000 And you're going to keep seeing that if nothing gets changed.

01:41:52.000 And that's what's encouraging about this administration.

01:41:56.000 So the thing that I was most excited about was Bobby Kennedy.

01:42:00.000 When Bobby Kennedy united with Trump, I was like, okay, I'm in.

01:42:03.000 Because, like, if he can get in there, you can see real change that's going to affect the way our lives are forever.

01:42:12.000 It's going to change things.

01:42:13.000 It's going to give people a real understanding of what's going on behind the scenes, why you've been lied to, why all these drugs are everywhere, why you're seeing poor health outcomes, why we're the richest nation in the world but also the sickest.

01:42:27.000 And across the board, with education, we're the richest nation in the world.

01:42:31.000 We have terrible education scores.

01:42:33.000 Like, why?

01:42:34.000 Why, since we developed the Department of Education, have our scores plummeted?

01:42:39.000 Like, what is that?

01:42:41.000 Vote to hell.

01:42:42.000 Good intentions.

01:42:43.000 Yes, 100%.

01:42:43.000 I was speaking with Kelly, and he's like, you know, don't pull punches, because you want to be diplomatic, but I am finding myself defending Kennedy, who, by the way, I've met twice.

01:42:57.000 I have no...

01:42:58.000 I don't work for this administration.

01:43:01.000 I have no personal affiliation.

01:43:03.000 It's just right and wrong.

01:43:05.000 There is a huge problem that needs to be addressed, and this administration wants to address it.

01:43:11.000 And yet you are seeing the resistance.

01:43:13.000 You are seeing the opposition flood the zone with his...

01:43:18.000 Hysteria.

01:43:19.000 24 fucking 7. And it's crazy.

01:43:23.000 It's constantly taking people off piste.

01:43:27.000 I actually did an interview the other day on News Nation where the host was like, well, he promised results on autism by September and that's unrealistic.

01:43:35.000 And I was like, who gives a fuck if it's unrealistic?

01:43:37.000 Aren't you glad we're looking at it?

01:43:39.000 It's genetic.

01:43:40.000 I'm like, do you really believe that?

01:43:41.000 Why would anybody say that without doing decades of research themselves?

01:43:46.000 I cannot.

01:43:48.000 Do you really think?

01:43:49.000 Do you know California's, it's now some insane number, like 1 in 12 boys?

01:43:55.000 It's higher in California, obviously, than anywhere else in the country, and boys in particular over girls.

01:44:02.000 But the reality is that we don't know.

01:44:05.000 Well, they also think that one of the reasons why it's boys over girls is like in girls, it's like less obvious.

01:44:11.000 It's less diagnosed.

01:44:13.000 That's interesting.

01:44:14.000 I've seen that.

01:44:14.000 I'm not sure if that's true either.

01:44:16.000 Because that's the argument also.

01:44:17.000 It's like, oh, autism has always been here.

01:44:19.000 It just hasn't been diagnosed correctly.

01:44:22.000 That was debunked, though, by the Mind Institute at UC Davis.

01:44:25.000 It was like, no, that's bullshit.

01:44:27.000 It was 1 in 150 20 years ago.

01:44:31.000 But people don't want to admit they did that to their kids, and so they will defend it to the death.

01:44:35.000 Just like people who have turned their kids trans don't want to admit that these are chemical castration drugs.

01:44:41.000 They don't want to admit it.

01:44:43.000 They don't want to admit that they possibly have contributed to mental disease, to mental health disease, to anxiety and depression and suicide.

01:44:50.000 No, no, no.

01:44:51.000 Would you rather have a live boy or a dead girl?

01:44:55.000 Right!

01:44:55.000 Exactly!

01:44:56.000 What are you fucking saying?

01:44:58.000 But it's a closed system, and what I mean by that is even if I did the gimme...

01:45:04.000 Oh, you're right.

01:45:04.000 Autism is genetic.

01:45:05.000 Well, what about...

01:45:07.000 The rise in early onset cancer diagnosis, the rise in obesity, the steady increase of infertility year after year after year.

01:45:15.000 We went from adult onset diabetes to type 2 diabetes because children have type 2 diabetes now.

01:45:22.000 Come on!

01:45:23.000 How far are you going to push it?

01:45:25.000 People are not stupid.

01:45:27.000 They're not.

01:45:28.000 You can capture them to a point.

01:45:30.000 But when the evidence is overwhelming, we are sicker than ever.

01:45:36.000 Existence is mind-blowing to this guy every day.

01:45:40.000 Oh, well, now, you know, he fired the guy that's tracking gonorrhea.

01:45:45.000 I'm like, you know what?

01:45:46.000 I mean, wear a fucking condom!

01:45:49.000 For God's sake!

01:45:51.000 Hopefully, that guy will get his job back.

01:45:53.000 But at the end of the day, he's also tackling the grass rule and trying to get to the bottom of autism and getting poison out of baby formula and removing soda from snaps.

01:46:04.000 It's just like...

01:46:05.000 Where is the perspective for the general public to read through the media bullshit?

01:46:11.000 Well, the problem is it's gone tribal, right?

01:46:13.000 And when you have an us-versus-them thing going on, which is what we do here in this country, you know, like, I keep seeing, like, people online saying, in these dark times, like, are these times so dark?

01:46:24.000 Like, what is happening?

01:46:26.000 You know, you know what's dark?

01:46:28.000 Yeah, if you're living in Gaza, it's pretty fucking dark.

01:46:30.000 If you're living in Ukraine, pretty dark.

01:46:32.000 But, like, here, have things gone dark?

01:46:34.000 Like they're calling this totalitarian regime.

01:46:37.000 Right. Okay, what's totalitarian?

01:46:40.000 That they're cutting fraud and waste?

01:46:41.000 Like, have you paid attention to the fraud and waste?

01:46:43.000 You paid attention to the fact they spent $250 million on transgender animal studies?

01:46:48.000 Like, where's your fucking money going?

01:46:51.000 You're not concerned with this unchecked spending that this government has been able to do for decade upon decade and these millions of NGOs?

01:46:59.000 Do you know there's an NGO in India for every 600 people?

01:47:03.000 people.

01:47:05.000 I have heard it's a CIA slush.

01:47:07.000 I've watched that episode with my friends, at least 10 of them.

01:47:10.000 There's 3.3 million NGOs in India.

01:47:13.000 There's an NGO in India for every 600 people.

01:47:18.000 And this is why we're $36 trillion in debt.

01:47:22.000 Those numbers are nuts.

01:47:24.000 Can I be the opposition on this?

01:47:27.000 Sure, please do.

01:47:28.000 There's children that are starving, Joe.

01:47:30.000 You've taken their food away.

01:47:32.000 Well, we definitely shouldn't do that.

01:47:33.000 You know what?

01:47:34.000 If you can prove that this is also the problem with charities.

01:47:38.000 This is the dark truth of charities, is that most charities, the money goes to bureaucracy.

01:47:43.000 A huge percentage of it goes to overhead.

01:47:46.000 In fact, most charities, the vast majority of the money never gets to the charity.

01:47:51.000 Homelessness in California.

01:47:53.000 $24 billion gone.

01:47:55.000 Where is it?

01:47:56.000 It was spent on free needles or something.

01:48:01.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:48:02.000 That's exactly what it was spent on.

01:48:04.000 It wasn't even.

01:48:05.000 It's probably fraud and waste.

01:48:06.000 It's both.

01:48:07.000 And there's also, well, my friend Coleon Noir, he brought this up and I was never aware of it until he said it.

01:48:13.000 He went to San Francisco and he saw the rampant, and he's a lawyer, so he went to San Francisco and he saw all this homelessness and he's like, what is the problem?

01:48:21.000 There's not enough funding?

01:48:22.000 And a guy over there going, no, no, no, no, you don't understand.

01:48:25.000 It's the opposite.

01:48:26.000 There's a business now.

01:48:27.000 So these people that are working in the homeless, you know, whatever the organization, they're making quarter million dollars a year.

01:48:35.000 Half a million in some cases.

01:48:36.000 I don't know if you've seen Anna Kasparian talk about this, but she can elaborate on this subject matter to the point that you literally want to forcibly remove Gavin Newsom from office.

01:48:50.000 It is...

01:48:52.000 It's staggering.

01:48:53.000 And some of them, half a million bucks.

01:48:55.000 And nothing.

01:48:56.000 They're doing a great job.

01:48:57.000 Just imagine if they weren't there, how much homeless we'd have.

01:48:59.000 We'd all be homeless.

01:49:00.000 I know.

01:49:01.000 You've seen him talk about...

01:49:03.000 Everyone would be homeless, so just relax.

01:49:04.000 Well, you know, I just had this conversation, actually.

01:49:08.000 I was talking to Carola, and he was telling me that Gavin Newsom had told him back in the day that the face of homelessness was not addiction and mental illness.

01:49:16.000 It was women and children.

01:49:20.000 And there's a loophole.

01:49:21.000 A friend of mine who's a reporter with the New York Times looked into it.

01:49:26.000 Because she's like, why don't you push back on that?

01:49:28.000 Because he's right.

01:49:29.000 She goes, no, no, no, no.

01:49:30.000 I looked into it and it's women and children.

01:49:32.000 And then she ended up getting to the bottom of the loophole.

01:49:34.000 And the way that he was able to put forward that narrative is that homeless is a person without a stable address.

01:49:41.000 And that's predominantly women and children.

01:49:43.000 But unsheltered is what we consider homeless.

01:49:47.000 The people in the streets and the tent camps.

01:49:49.000 And arguably that is largely...

01:49:51.000 So what is...

01:49:52.000 I don't understand.

01:49:53.000 What's the definition?

01:49:54.000 Okay, so Newsom was saying to Corolla, like, you're so insensitive and the face of...

01:50:01.000 Because the children don't own homes?

01:50:02.000 He was saying that women, like the mom that owns two jobs, that's who I'm trying to save.

01:50:08.000 We don't need to tackle addiction and we don't need to tackle mental illness because this is about the underprivileged individual, the female single mom with two kids who, you know, this is the face of homelessness.

01:50:22.000 And Carolla was like, you're a sociopath.

01:50:24.000 It's addicts and people with mental illness.

01:50:29.000 And I ended up then in a debate with this journalist who's lovely, named Molly.

01:50:35.000 And she's like, well, the statistics say that homelessness is, in fact, women and children.

01:50:39.000 But when I challenged her and sent her San Francisco, whatever, we go back and forth.

01:50:44.000 And she ended up coming back to me after doing the homework.

01:50:46.000 And there is a distinction between homeless and unsheltered.

01:50:52.000 So homeless are people with unstable addresses.

01:50:56.000 And that is women and children.

01:50:58.000 So I'm like...

01:50:59.000 How the...

01:51:00.000 Why?

01:51:00.000 In a temporary...

01:51:02.000 I couldn't quite extrapolate what...

01:51:05.000 So is it like divorce?

01:51:06.000 I guess it's like in temporary housing or, you know, in an apartment somewhere.

01:51:13.000 But unsheltered, the people on the street, that you and I would go homeless.

01:51:20.000 Okay.

01:51:20.000 In the tent camp outside on the sidewalk.

01:51:23.000 So they're playing semantics.

01:51:25.000 That's what he's doing.

01:51:26.000 Oh, God.

01:51:27.000 That's what I'm trying to get at.

01:51:28.000 Yes!

01:51:29.000 I'm sorry.

01:51:31.000 I cannot stand the guy.

01:51:31.000 Well, if you see these tech communities, you see clearly that you're dealing with drug addiction and mental illness.

01:51:37.000 But don't believe what you see with your own eyes.

01:51:41.000 That's the game across the board.

01:51:44.000 Don't believe your common sense.

01:51:47.000 Common sense would dictate all the things we talked about.

01:51:50.000 Autism is increasing.

01:51:51.000 We shouldn't give sex change.

01:51:52.000 We shouldn't sterilize 12-year-olds.

01:51:54.000 But don't believe any of that.

01:51:56.000 Don't believe that people who are homeless Need help psychologically.

01:52:01.000 Some way to treat the addiction.

01:52:03.000 Obviously, there are more intelligent people like Schellenberger that have a plan for this, despite the fact that he didn't get into the governor's office, which is a shame because he would have done far better than what California is dealing with now.

01:52:16.000 But it's this constant game and manipulation of the facts all the time.

01:52:23.000 And this is where...

01:52:24.000 If I could do one thing in my job, it's teaching people how to defer back to their common sense.

01:52:34.000 It's crazy.

01:52:36.000 Common sense is not that common, right?

01:52:38.000 No.

01:52:39.000 It's also people are tired because they have a poor diet and they're not eating well.

01:52:43.000 And so they don't have the time to be thinking about this stuff.

01:52:46.000 They don't have the mental energy to research these things.

01:52:49.000 And they're overwhelmed with bills and debt and maybe relationship problems.

01:52:57.000 There's so many problems that people have already to get them to...

01:53:00.000 Look at external issues that maybe don't affect them personally on a day-to-day basis.

01:53:05.000 It's very difficult to get people to focus on that.

01:53:07.000 So then they vote with what they think is their virtue.

01:53:12.000 Blue no matter who.

01:53:13.000 Vote Democrat no matter what.

01:53:15.000 That's not helping you.

01:53:17.000 And then when you abandon it and leave, you're called a traitor.

01:53:21.000 You're a traitor to the party.

01:53:23.000 You must get that a lot.

01:53:25.000 Oh my God.

01:53:25.000 Well, I went through all of it.

01:53:26.000 But then when you finally decide it doesn't matter anymore.

01:53:30.000 You become immune.

01:53:31.000 So I was, I was, it's interesting.

01:53:34.000 Back in the day when I, you know, my friend used to refer to me in this capacity.

01:53:39.000 She'd say, you know, you're like the fat person's Jesus.

01:53:42.000 This is the early 2000s.

01:53:45.000 Oh, Julian Michaels is, doesn't judge, but then she's open arms and she's trying to help people.

01:53:51.000 And then the very same person, the very same.

01:53:54.000 Belief system and the very same strategies in dealing with the problem became the ultimate enemy, the ultimate fat shamer, the ultimate science denier.

01:54:03.000 And it just goes to show you how the narrative shifts.

01:54:06.000 It's tough to call me a transphobe because I fall under that acronym umbrella.

01:54:12.000 Despite the fact that gay is very different than trans, I've never really understood the acronym either.

01:54:16.000 What's a trap?

01:54:18.000 Completely.

01:54:18.000 But you can't say, like, go ahead.

01:54:21.000 I'm a homophobe?

01:54:22.000 Come at me, bro!

01:54:25.000 It's a tough one!

01:54:27.000 I'm married to a woman.

01:54:29.000 I haven't been hit with a racist card, although I'm waiting for it.

01:54:34.000 I don't know, maybe because my kid is Haitian and she gives me a pass.

01:54:38.000 I have no idea.

01:54:39.000 But you get certain protections simply because you're a card-carrying member of the club.

01:54:48.000 But I got hit with everything outside of that.

01:54:50.000 You know, transphobe, ish, ish, fat shamer and anti-science and ableist and privileged and all of that stuff.

01:54:58.000 Yeah, but all that stuff is losing its meaning.

01:55:00.000 You know, the problem is you keep calling people, you call everyone a racist.

01:55:04.000 Like, it doesn't mean anymore.

01:55:04.000 You're crying wolf so many times that people don't listen anymore.

01:55:07.000 Like, a real racist is horrific.

01:55:10.000 You run into a real racist, like, oh my god, that's horrific.

01:55:15.000 You know, if you just call everyone a racist, if you go math is racist, like, okay, math's racist?

01:55:22.000 Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are racist.

01:55:24.000 I've seen that.

01:55:25.000 Okay.

01:55:25.000 Oh, I haven't seen that one.

01:55:27.000 Exercise is racist.

01:55:28.000 I did see that.

01:55:29.000 All right.

01:55:30.000 Yes.

01:55:30.000 Wonderful.

01:55:31.000 All right.

01:55:32.000 MSNBC.

01:55:32.000 All right.

01:55:33.000 I liked that.

01:55:34.000 I like that one a lot.

01:55:35.000 Yeah.

01:55:36.000 I will tell you, though, I don't think that it is losing as much power as I had hoped.

01:55:42.000 And I reference...

01:55:44.000 Elon Musk, and here's why.

01:55:46.000 It's seemingly working.

01:55:48.000 I know a lot of people that think he's an anti-Semite.

01:55:53.000 I'm like, you sure about that?

01:55:55.000 Well, they think he's a Nazi.

01:55:57.000 More than just an anti-Semite.

01:55:59.000 An actual Nazi.

01:56:00.000 And these are reasonable people.

01:56:02.000 Yeah, and here's the irony.

01:56:03.000 He's on the spectrum.

01:56:05.000 So this thing, he didn't even realize what he's doing.

01:56:08.000 The heart gesture.

01:56:09.000 My heart goes out to you.

01:56:11.000 But Joe, what about the video, the montage of all the liberals, including AOC, engaging in the same Sigh Hale?

01:56:20.000 Tim Walsh.

01:56:21.000 Tim Walsh.

01:56:22.000 I love you all.

01:56:23.000 This is like a thing that people have to stop doing.

01:56:28.000 You've got to do it like this.

01:56:30.000 You've got to have two hands.

01:56:31.000 Touch your heart and then...

01:56:32.000 I'm not doing it!

01:56:34.000 When I was getting in trouble with CNN during the vaccine days, the COVID days, they would use a photograph of me from the UFC weigh-ins because when I go to the UFC weigh-ins, I say, welcome to the weigh-ins, everybody!

01:56:47.000 So they had this photo of me from the side.

01:56:50.000 That's the one they used all the time.

01:56:53.000 No!

01:56:55.000 People buy that shit and they are still buying it and that...

01:57:00.000 Scares me.

01:57:01.000 And in an argument on Piers Morgan, it raised my voice a little bit.

01:57:06.000 I was like, well, I don't know.

01:57:08.000 I don't think he's an anti-Semme.

01:57:09.000 Number one, he's friends with Jews.

01:57:11.000 Number two, he hires Jews.

01:57:12.000 And number three, he hasn't killed any Jews.

01:57:14.000 He has a necklace around his neck that he's given to one of the mothers of the hostages.

01:57:17.000 It says, bring them home.

01:57:19.000 I remember him going after October 7th and talking about the videos that he'd seen, but the guy was like, oh, that's your benchmark?

01:57:25.000 He doesn't kill Jews?

01:57:26.000 And I was like, no, that's yours.

01:57:28.000 You're the one comparing him to Hitler, who killed six million Jews.

01:57:32.000 So if you're going to draw that comparison, zero, six million.

01:57:35.000 So shut the fuck up.

01:57:37.000 It's all dumb, but it's all...

01:57:40.000 It's all a trick because what they're really doing is going after him because he's trying to go after USAID.

01:57:46.000 I see that.

01:57:47.000 That's their slush fund.

01:57:48.000 But can I tell you how many reasonable people?

01:57:52.000 Oh, I have friends that I have to argue about it with.

01:57:55.000 Exactly.

01:57:56.000 That's when I tell you that I don't know that it's actually losing.

01:58:00.000 It's power.

01:58:01.000 It is.

01:58:02.000 It's just not losing its power with really fucking dumb people.

01:58:05.000 And you're going to have a certain percentage of really fucking dumb people.

01:58:08.000 And they're either going to have to catch up or we're going to have to overwhelm them with a lot of logic.

01:58:13.000 And that takes time.

01:58:14.000 And it takes a lot of these kind of conversations.

01:58:16.000 And they get out there and they get clipped.

01:58:18.000 And maybe you and I said something here that will be taken out of context and used against you, which is always really fun.

01:58:24.000 That's my favorite.

01:58:25.000 Let me just take a snippet of it.

01:58:27.000 See?

01:58:28.000 Told you.

01:58:28.000 She's a this.

01:58:30.000 She's a that.

01:58:31.000 I know.

01:58:32.000 It's this reductionist thing where they try to define you by a string of words.

01:58:37.000 Forget about your whole life.

01:58:38.000 They did that to Candace Owens.

01:58:40.000 Yes.

01:58:40.000 Oh, she's this disgusting anti-Semite.

01:58:43.000 So I listened to her.

01:58:44.000 I listened to her answer all that stuff on her show.

01:58:47.000 And then I listened to her debate it with Rabbi Schmule.

01:58:51.000 And I thought, okay, let's see what a bitch she is.

01:58:53.000 And I listened to everything she said.

01:58:55.000 Checked it all and watched it in context.

01:58:57.000 And then I actually sat with her and I was like, alright, I'm going to open the door.

01:59:00.000 I like Candace a lot, but Candace says a lot of wild shit.

01:59:03.000 She does.

01:59:03.000 It's not accurate.

01:59:04.000 She thinks dinosaurs are fake.

01:59:06.000 I hear you.

01:59:08.000 I get it.

01:59:09.000 I get it.

01:59:10.000 That is like self-inflicted.

01:59:12.000 I understand.

01:59:13.000 That's a self-inflicted wound.

01:59:14.000 But do you think that she...

01:59:16.000 I'm like, are you a holocaust-ner?

01:59:18.000 No, I'm not a Holocaust denier.

01:59:20.000 And still to this day, she's a Holocaust denier.

01:59:22.000 Well, that's my friend Daryl Cooper, who was on my podcast, you know, because he said hyperbolically that Winston Churchill was one of the main villains of World War II because he started blockades and forced Hitler into action and starved the German people.

01:59:42.000 It's like what he said.

01:59:44.000 It was really unfortunate the way he said it the way he said it, but he was trying to say that Winston Churchill did some things that if he hadn't done them, maybe World War II wouldn't have gone the way it went.

01:59:55.000 But the problem is when you say that and it gets taken out of context, people say, oh, he's a Holocaust denier and a Nazi sympathizer.

02:00:02.000 But then you listen to his podcast.

02:00:04.000 He's got this, I think it's like 30 hours, called Fear and Loathing in New Jerusalem.

02:00:09.000 And it's the most gut-wrenching tale of the persecution.

02:00:13.000 The persecution of Jews in Eastern Europe, just the beginning of it, I tell everybody, just listen to the first, like, 40 minutes of it.

02:00:19.000 It's so heartbreaking.

02:00:21.000 Like, this is not the words of a homophobe or, excuse me, of an anti-Semite that would say those things.

02:00:27.000 But reductionist things that people love to do.

02:00:31.000 But even still, here would be my argument to that.

02:00:34.000 Let's say he was.

02:00:37.000 If you're inclined to believe that.

02:00:40.000 Let's say that was his argument and that Hitler wasn't bad and it was Churchill.

02:00:44.000 Then you're...

02:00:46.000 Asshole and an idiot.

02:00:47.000 Yeah.

02:00:47.000 Then there's no hope for you.

02:00:49.000 This gatekeeping of information— But he's neither an asshole or an idiot, and he's being called an asshole and an idiot by people who don't consume his work.

02:00:57.000 Of course.

02:00:58.000 I'm saying worst-case scenario.

02:01:00.000 Because I see this a lot with the gatekeeping of information, and God forbid you don't fact-check everybody on everything, which has been something that I've gotten a bit of.

02:01:08.000 Like, well, you nodded your head, and you said I see your point.

02:01:11.000 I'm like, well, sometimes I see their point, and sometimes I don't know, and I can't fact-check everything.

02:01:15.000 And I'll talk to somebody else who has a differing opinion.

02:01:17.000 But people can think for themselves as well.

02:01:21.000 Yeah.

02:01:21.000 There's just a lot of bad faith actors out there.

02:01:25.000 And there's a lot of people that do that.

02:01:27.000 This taking people out of context and trying to use this reductionist perspective and label people with these pejoratives that are inescapable.

02:01:34.000 The racist, homophobe, anti-semi, all those are inescapable.

02:01:41.000 And once you get hit with those, that's your fuck.

02:01:47.000 And that's what they're trying to do to you because they're trying to silence you and because they want to win and this is a real problem with human beings when it comes to ideas is that like if I believe something and you believe something differently I don't want to listen to you.

02:02:00.000 I want to beat you.

02:02:02.000 I want to overwhelm you with talk.

02:02:04.000 I want to Piers Morgan you into submission.

02:02:07.000 I want to yell at you.

02:02:08.000 Not Piers the human, but the show.

02:02:10.000 I know what you're talking about, yeah.

02:02:11.000 You want to yell at them, and you want to win.

02:02:14.000 You want to dunk on them.

02:02:15.000 And this is why I don't engage with people on social media.

02:02:18.000 I just think it's the worst way to communicate.

02:02:20.000 And when I see people doing it, I genuinely feel bad for them because I think they're mentally ill.

02:02:24.000 When people are dunking on people constantly on social media, I'm like, well, that's a sign of mental illness.

02:02:30.000 There's something wrong.

02:02:32.000 You don't realize that yet?

02:02:34.000 This shit's been around for 20 years now, and you're still engaging in that kind of behavior on social media?

02:02:40.000 It's stupid.

02:02:41.000 It gets clicks.

02:02:43.000 That's what I think it is.

02:02:44.000 That's also part of the problem.

02:02:46.000 I get enough attention.

02:02:47.000 I get enough attention so I don't need to reach out and try to get more, which is like...

02:02:52.000 By the way, that's what you're supposed to do when you get a lot of attention.

02:02:54.000 You're supposed to rise above with great power, great responsibility.

02:02:59.000 You're supposed to try to be nicer.

02:03:01.000 That's one of my core tenets in life.

02:03:03.000 Be as nice as possible.

02:03:04.000 And here's a shocker.

02:03:06.000 I find people are nice to me almost entirely.

02:03:11.000 Like, very rarely are people not nice to me, because I'm nice to everybody.

02:03:14.000 So if you're nice to everybody, guess what?

02:03:17.000 People are nice to you.

02:03:18.000 And even people I disagree with, like, disagree with fundamentally.

02:03:24.000 But you're listening to them, though.

02:03:25.000 That's exactly what you're trying to say.

02:03:28.000 One of the conversations I've referred to a couple times is the one I had with Matt Walsh.

02:03:33.000 There's no universe where I'm going to change Matt Walsh's mind about gay marriage.

02:03:38.000 But...

02:03:39.000 At least I want to understand them.

02:03:41.000 And I also am hoping that some people who are in the middle of this argument and could be influenced might go my way.

02:03:49.000 And I cannot remember if this was a TED Talk or where this information or this story was put out in the world, but it was the story of a black man who ended up befriending a grand wizard of the Klan.

02:04:02.000 Garl Davis.

02:04:03.000 He's a friend of ours.

02:04:05.000 He's been on the podcast a couple times.

02:04:06.000 Oh my god, this story!

02:04:08.000 He was a musician.

02:04:09.000 Oh, my God!

02:04:10.000 And became the guy's, like, godfather of the guy's kids?

02:04:13.000 Not just one.

02:04:14.000 No, he's got more than a hundred of these KKK guys to give him their robes.

02:04:21.000 Yeah, and convert and change them over.

02:04:24.000 That's what I want.

02:04:25.000 Just by love.

02:04:26.000 Just with love.

02:04:26.000 That's what I'm hoping in those conversations.

02:04:29.000 That's power.

02:04:30.000 Yeah.

02:04:31.000 Well, that's Daryl's a really amazing person, a shining example of what's possible when you just show people like he's like, man, you're different than all the others.

02:04:39.000 It's like, actually, I'm just a human.

02:04:41.000 I just have more melanin in my skin, you know, and you are unfortunately you have been trapped by an ideology.

02:04:48.000 You have othered people simply by their looks.

02:04:52.000 You know, and you haven't learned this lesson that we were supposed to be taught by Dr. King in the 1960s, you know, judge a man by the content of the character.

02:05:00.000 It must have been your show actually where I heard it, but it changed the way that I approach 99% of my conversations because I thought, okay.

02:05:12.000 If I listen with an intent to hear and an intent to understand, and I can expose people to the things they're uncomfortable with in a way where we find common ground, I may not change their mind, but at least you're, in some cases you hopefully can,

02:05:27.000 and at least you're modeling.

02:05:29.000 But it takes so much time.

02:05:32.000 You know, it's like...

02:05:33.000 Indiana Jones, when the guy starts throwing the whip and he just pulls the gun out and just shoots him.

02:05:40.000 It's like, I just want to shut the fuck up.

02:05:42.000 You know, and that's what a lot of people like.

02:05:44.000 Especially today in this, like, everybody wants to take Ozempic.

02:05:47.000 You want a quick fix?

02:05:48.000 You don't want to work out for fucking six years to lose 50 pounds.

02:05:51.000 No, I want to just lose 50 pounds in a month.

02:05:53.000 You know, and this is the quick fix thing of today's society.

02:05:58.000 And when you're offered this pill that makes you smarter instead of reading books.

02:06:03.000 Yeah, I'll take that pill.

02:06:05.000 This is the argument that I've said to people when they always talk about I don't have time for exercise.

02:06:11.000 I'm not interested in my body.

02:06:13.000 This is stupid.

02:06:14.000 It's vain.

02:06:15.000 Listen.

02:06:16.000 Huh.

02:06:16.000 If I gave you a pill, just give you a pill, and that pill made you fit and healthy and muscular, you wouldn't take that pill?

02:06:22.000 Improved your self-confidence.

02:06:23.000 Why would you not want a body that works way better?

02:06:25.000 Improved your mood, yeah.

02:06:27.000 Yeah, of course you would.

02:06:28.000 Your sex life would get better, all of those things.

02:06:30.000 Of course you'd take it.

02:06:31.000 That's a defense mechanism, though.

02:06:32.000 You know that.

02:06:33.000 Right.

02:06:34.000 It's a fear that they would be incapable of...

02:06:37.000 Following through on what's required.

02:06:39.000 So they defend against it.

02:06:40.000 It's the same shit you see with the people that are overweight and like, I don't care.

02:06:44.000 Or they make fun of their weight and like they become the funny fat guy.

02:06:48.000 It's a defense mechanism.

02:06:49.000 Oh, I have a lot of friends like that.

02:06:51.000 A lot of comedians.

02:06:51.000 It's like their entire act, like being fat.

02:06:54.000 I know.

02:06:55.000 It's a big part of it.

02:06:55.000 Yeah.

02:06:56.000 There was a guy, I went to kill Tony last night and there was a comedian that was up first.

02:07:00.000 And he was 412 pounds, and the guys were doing what they obviously do.

02:07:05.000 But there was a part of my heart that was splitting.

02:07:09.000 Of course.

02:07:09.000 Because I was like, deep down, he's hurting.

02:07:11.000 Deep down, this fucking guy's hurting.

02:07:13.000 Deep down, it's not funny.

02:07:14.000 I know, right?

02:07:15.000 That's the problem.

02:07:16.000 I was dying.

02:07:17.000 I was dying inside for him.

02:07:19.000 And also, if you're 420 pounds or whatever he is, like, boy, the road.

02:07:23.000 To becoming healthy is hundreds of pounds away.

02:07:27.000 And that is so daunting.

02:07:29.000 Especially when you have the pull of addiction.

02:07:32.000 Yes.

02:07:32.000 That's the big problem.

02:07:33.000 Yeah.

02:07:34.000 And then you get eat intuitively.

02:07:36.000 Eat intuitively.

02:07:36.000 Oh my god.

02:07:37.000 Which is impossible, by the way.

02:07:39.000 Right.

02:07:39.000 Because the food is designed to override your satiety.

02:07:42.000 If I eat intuitively, I eat only pizza.

02:07:48.000 I would have a diet that's 100%.

02:07:51.000 Yeah, pizza, fries, and ice cream, and Coca-Cola would be my whole diet.

02:07:56.000 But the whole entire food system, all of the ultra-processed foods is designed to override your body's signaling of satiety.

02:08:08.000 It's fucking impossible.

02:08:09.000 And then you couple that with the psychological vulnerabilities, and it's a powder keg.

02:08:15.000 You sound like an ad for Ozempic.

02:08:17.000 That's exactly what I am.

02:08:19.000 Oh my god, I'm gonna get that tattoo, man.

02:08:22.000 Afro-Zempic Dragon Believer.

02:08:24.000 I got the sticker, by the way.

02:08:26.000 It's on my suitcase.

02:08:28.000 Fuck, yeah, I like that.

02:08:29.000 Afro-Zempic.

02:08:30.000 It's really kooky.

02:08:32.000 It's weird, but the only...

02:08:34.000 The only way out is through conversations.

02:08:36.000 The only way out is to educate people or enlighten people or expose people to other ideas.

02:08:42.000 Like you're not really going to educate them but you will expose them to other ideas and I think over time.

02:08:48.000 The good ideas will win.

02:08:50.000 It's just – it's been so many years of bad ideas and it's so indoctrinating and it's so difficult.

02:08:57.000 And then also it's your identity.

02:08:59.000 Your identity is just – whatever it is, whether you're Matt Walsh or whether you're a 420-pound trans person.

02:09:05.000 Like your identity is like embedded in whatever you think of yourself as being and it's very difficult to take wisdom from someone that you think of as the enemy.

02:09:14.000 That's so true.

02:09:15.000 And breaking that identity, in particular when it works against someone.

02:09:20.000 So one of the things that people can't believe in a reality they haven't experienced.

02:09:25.000 That's true.

02:09:26.000 And so one of the ways that I used to utilize fitness was to give them an experience that they didn't think they were capable of.

02:09:34.000 So all of a sudden you've got the funny fat guy who just ran that mile without stopping.

02:09:39.000 Or who just did the push-up on the hands and the feet, or who just did ten pull-ups in a row, or even two.

02:09:44.000 But once they look at their achievement, it's like, holy shit.

02:09:49.000 I didn't know I was capable of this.

02:09:51.000 And then you shatter that...

02:09:57.000 You also have to find a tribe.

02:10:00.000 You have to surround yourself with other people that are trying to prove themselves.

02:10:03.000 So if other people around you are trying to prove themselves, then it will encourage you to be a part of that group and you all do it together.

02:10:10.000 Completely.

02:10:10.000 And then help each other if you fall off the wagon and pick each other up and like reinforce positive.

02:10:17.000 You see all of that.

02:10:19.000 Back in the day, I used to get so caught up in the fights about diets and fat diets and fat workouts.

02:10:25.000 And as I've matured, or like to think that I have matured, I don't even engage in that shit anymore.

02:10:31.000 It really doesn't matter what workout you're doing.

02:10:34.000 If you're doing it with a qualified professional or if people are showing up for CrossFit.

02:10:40.000 Because they love CrossFit and they love the community, great.

02:10:42.000 If they're showing up for Pilates because they love the community and they're showing up for it, great.

02:10:46.000 As long as they're showing up for something and the person teaching them a great CrossFit coach matters.

02:10:55.000 There's a big difference between you herniating three discs and getting into the best shape of your life.

02:10:59.000 So I would simply say, look for a qualified expert.

02:11:02.000 Yeah, that's a good point.

02:11:03.000 But, you know, I'm beyond the what's the best diet and what's the best who gives a fuck.

02:11:09.000 As long as you're, if you're in a positive environment that's getting you to show up for it day after day after day, something's better than nothing.

02:11:18.000 It doesn't matter.

02:11:18.000 And you're focusing on improving.

02:11:19.000 Yes!

02:11:20.000 And that comes with community.

02:11:22.000 For sure, you're absolutely right.

02:11:24.000 CrossFit is the whole community of people.

02:11:26.000 You go there, you're all working out together.

02:11:28.000 I used to love that about yoga class.

02:11:29.000 You go to a bunch of people, I knew them all, like, hey, what's up?

02:11:35.000 But you don't talk until after it's over.

02:11:37.000 It's one of those things.

02:11:38.000 They've really discouraged talking before.

02:11:40.000 But you're all sweating together.

02:11:42.000 You're going through it together.

02:11:44.000 There's no other way.

02:11:45.000 And then you get out the other end.

02:11:47.000 You're like, wow, I wouldn't have done that by myself.

02:11:49.000 I would have quit at like 40 minutes.

02:11:51.000 But I did the whole 90 minutes.

02:11:52.000 And now I feel better.

02:11:54.000 And then the rest of the day is easy.

02:11:55.000 That's why I think community is such an integral part of treating addiction.

02:12:00.000 Because you have that supportive group to keep you accountable, to show up, to feel like you're a part of something, and we've seen it work for you and work against you.

02:12:11.000 It's also an integral part for an evil army, unfortunately.

02:12:14.000 I know!

02:12:17.000 You have to believe that you have to kill these heretics.

02:12:23.000 How do we tip things over to the right side of the— You have to make your side be more attractive.

02:12:28.000 You have to make your side kinder and more empathetic and also more admirable.

02:12:34.000 Yes, you're right.

02:12:36.000 The rewards have to be there, and admirable is one.

02:12:39.000 Yeah, you have to wish you had those characteristics and go, why don't I?

02:12:44.000 Maybe I can.

02:12:45.000 And just also realize you're not who you used to be.

02:12:49.000 If you were a fat, alcoholic, gambling addict, you don't have to stay that way forever.

02:12:55.000 You don't have to.

02:12:57.000 You're not that.

02:12:57.000 You're a human being.

02:12:58.000 You are trapped with behavior and ideas that were not self-serving.

02:13:03.000 They're not good for people around you.

02:13:04.000 You probably stole things to feed your addictions.

02:13:08.000 And you feel you have terrible self-worth and terrible self-image.

02:13:12.000 But that's not you.

02:13:14.000 That's who you have been.

02:13:16.000 You are who you are right now.

02:13:18.000 So if you choose right now to be positive from here on out, and you're going to have some mistakes and fuck up along the way, but find a group.

02:13:25.000 This is why Alcoholics Anonymous is so important.

02:13:28.000 You get around these people and you all agree.

02:13:31.000 They're all like, and you have sponsors and you help each other.

02:13:34.000 Like, this is the whole idea of community.

02:13:36.000 We are not solitary individuals.

02:13:38.000 We're just not.

02:13:40.000 We are a collective organism experiencing itself in individual ways.

02:13:47.000 I agree with you.

02:13:48.000 I do.

02:13:49.000 I just...

02:13:49.000 I want...

02:13:50.000 I sometimes see evil winning out more often than not.

02:13:55.000 Well, because that's what's in the news.

02:13:57.000 And that's also what's in your algorithm, you know?

02:13:59.000 And that's why you have to stay off social media.

02:14:02.000 Yeah.

02:14:04.000 I feel so much better.

02:14:05.000 I've been off social media, like, almost entirely for, like, a few...

02:14:10.000 Wow.

02:14:12.000 I really weaned off about two weeks ago.

02:14:15.000 I really followed my wife's footsteps because she just got off.

02:14:18.000 And she's like, I feel so much better.

02:14:19.000 I'm like, damn, that's crazy.

02:14:21.000 And so I'm like, let me try it.

02:14:23.000 And so I tried it for a day.

02:14:24.000 I was like, wow, I feel so much better after this day.

02:14:26.000 And then I tried a couple days and then I'm like, oh, it's real.

02:14:30.000 Like there's, you know, Sugar Sean O'Malley, UFC champion, he said...

02:14:35.000 He goes, I get a low-level anxiety when I'm scrolling through social media.

02:14:39.000 I'm like, right, what is that?

02:14:41.000 Like, what is that?

02:14:42.000 But that shit's real.

02:14:44.000 It's also you realize, like, you're just distracting yourself with this stupidity.

02:14:47.000 That's for freaking sure.

02:14:50.000 But when you don't do that, your mind feels better.

02:14:52.000 It really does feel better.

02:14:54.000 So I will occasionally, like, if I'm on the toilet, I'll, like, scroll through Twitter, find out what is everybody mad at.

02:15:00.000 And then I'll put it away, you know?

02:15:02.000 And then sometimes I'll go days without looking at it at all.

02:15:05.000 And then sometimes, like, I got a text the other day, like, hey man, are you okay?

02:15:09.000 I'm like, well, what?

02:15:10.000 And they're like, oh, people are mad at you on Twitter.

02:15:12.000 I'm like, okay.

02:15:13.000 That's not the real world, bro.

02:15:14.000 I don't even know what they're mad at.

02:15:16.000 Like, no, don't reach.

02:15:17.000 Like, a friend of mine sent me something that people are, I go, don't send me that shit.

02:15:20.000 I'm not looking at it.

02:15:22.000 I don't care.

02:15:22.000 Aren't you immune to that by now, though?

02:15:24.000 You have been forged in...

02:15:27.000 Fire.

02:15:28.000 For fuck's sake.

02:15:29.000 What are they going to say to you at this point that you're even going to care about?

02:15:32.000 Well, the thing is, it's not me.

02:15:33.000 It's them.

02:15:34.000 They think that I'm upset at this thing because they would be upset at this thing because they don't get attacked.

02:15:39.000 Right?

02:15:40.000 So, like, my sister used to send me things like that.

02:15:42.000 I'm like, don't send me that shit.

02:15:43.000 I don't care.

02:15:45.000 My wife used to do that for a little while because she would worry and want me to temper my behavior.

02:15:51.000 My business partner would do the same thing.

02:15:53.000 Like, oh, I really don't because you should stay in the pocket here on the fitness stuff.

02:15:58.000 But I found that the more I would lean into that, it didn't matter.

02:16:05.000 How many attacks would come my way because you would resonate with the people that got it.

02:16:10.000 And that ended up working better for me personally and professionally.

02:16:14.000 But you're right.

02:16:15.000 It is their concern of how they would feel if people called them those things or came for them with the pitchforks and the torches.

02:16:21.000 And by the way, the worst thing you could do is fight back, which is really crazy.

02:16:25.000 The worst thing you could do is interact with people that are attacking you.

02:16:28.000 Of course!

02:16:28.000 Which is really kind of...

02:16:29.000 But that's everyone's instinct.

02:16:31.000 Everyone's instinct is to go, well, I'll tell you what I think now.

02:16:35.000 You get caught up in it?

02:16:36.000 Yeah, you get caught up in it.

02:16:38.000 It's ridiculous.

02:16:38.000 The only time I find myself doing that these days and I'm going to stop it is when my son will challenge me on something and then my mother was like, we're debating something.

02:16:47.000 She's like, honey, you're litigating this with a 13-year-old.

02:16:52.000 And I was like, yeah, okay.

02:16:54.000 And you know why?

02:16:55.000 Because I still care what my kids think about me.

02:16:58.000 Sure.

02:16:59.000 But the rest of the world, I don't give a fuck.

02:17:01.000 Yeah.

02:17:02.000 I don't give a fuck.

02:17:03.000 Well, you do, but also you can't control what people think.

02:17:07.000 Right.

02:17:08.000 Exactly.

02:17:08.000 The only thing you can do is be undeniable.

02:17:11.000 That's so well said.

02:17:13.000 Yeah.

02:17:14.000 That is so well said.

02:17:15.000 That's all you have.

02:17:15.000 And so what happens with haters is they challenge you to become more undeniable.

02:17:20.000 And so that's good.

02:17:21.000 That's what their job is.

02:17:22.000 They make you steal man your arguments.

02:17:24.000 All the losers of the world, they challenge you to become a bigger winner.

02:17:27.000 They really do.

02:17:29.000 I've learned how, especially in the health space when I would be active in a conversation about fitness or nutrition or what have you.

02:17:38.000 You learn how to bulletproof yourself in that conversation.

02:17:42.000 Right, because people will fight so hard to keep their bad habits.

02:17:46.000 God, it is insane.

02:17:48.000 And there's also so much infighting in every industry, which...

02:17:52.000 Bums me out.

02:17:53.000 And that's when I just was like, what am I doing?

02:17:55.000 That's an attention thing, right?

02:17:56.000 They're upset that you're getting the attention that they think they deserve.

02:18:00.000 Like, she doesn't even know what the fuck she's talking about.

02:18:02.000 You see a lot of that in the health space.

02:18:04.000 You do and I hate it.

02:18:05.000 And it's super disappointing because we can share ideas and we can, as you said, admit when we're wrong and learn and grow and what have you.

02:18:17.000 But the real enemy is not another friggin' doctor or another piece.

02:18:23.000 We've seen who the real enemy is.

02:18:25.000 And it's big pharma when it's got bad intentions or big food with bad intentions or big ag.

02:18:31.000 It's not going to be like the guy who has a different opinion on cholesterol, for fuck's sake.

02:18:38.000 It's just that that guy with a different opinion on cholesterol is getting a lot of attention.

02:18:42.000 And then these people are comparing them.

02:18:44.000 They're comparing themselves to that person.

02:18:46.000 Why don't I get this attention?

02:18:48.000 And the way to get the attention is to dunk on that person to say awful things.

02:18:53.000 But then people dunk on you, and now your life is conflict.

02:18:56.000 Okay.

02:18:57.000 Good job.

02:18:58.000 When they do, I like to sit down and see if there's truth there, like you said.

02:19:05.000 I've not been immune to some of Lane Norton's assaults.

02:19:09.000 And you know what?

02:19:11.000 We sat down and I was like, listen, Lane, the things you're going after me on are not from me.

02:19:15.000 It's from this PhD, that PhD, this PhD, and the American Medical Association.

02:19:19.000 And I had him on my podcast and by the time we were done, he won me over!

02:19:24.000 I was like, I believe you.

02:19:26.000 I think you're right.

02:19:27.000 I'm changing my position on this.

02:19:29.000 But sometimes, you're right, it's because someone is getting attention or there's envy there.

02:19:37.000 And I would simply say, you can...

02:19:39.000 Intuit when a criticism might be legitimate.

02:19:41.000 And when you're seeing it over and over and over again, and it's a similar thing, there's something to look at there.

02:19:47.000 But outside of that, when you know it's bullshit...

02:19:50.000 There's also the problem with bots.

02:19:52.000 Oh, yeah.

02:19:52.000 Oh, my God.

02:19:53.000 The vast majority of Twitter might be bots.

02:19:57.000 Yeah.

02:19:57.000 You know, an FBI analyst that used to analyze...

02:20:01.000 Big data sets.

02:20:02.000 He looked at Twitter and he said it might be about 80% bots.

02:20:07.000 Kara Swisher said that to me.

02:20:08.000 I was blown away.

02:20:11.000 And she would know.

02:20:13.000 And she was showing me stuff.

02:20:15.000 Bot farms and shit all along the wall.

02:20:19.000 And then you're just engaging.

02:20:22.000 And they shape narratives.

02:20:24.000 It's crazy.

02:20:25.000 Rogue states and different people use it.

02:20:28.000 I'm sure like...

02:20:30.000 There's publicity firms that use it, I'm sure.

02:20:33.000 I mean, I don't know.

02:20:34.000 I don't either, but without question.

02:20:36.000 You could use it with AI.

02:20:37.000 You could easily have one computer that would run many, many accounts.

02:20:44.000 And you could program it to have variations on a theme.

02:20:47.000 But you see it sometimes when, like, there's a lot of social media influencers that get co-opted.

02:20:54.000 And one of the things that you see is a very similar message.

02:20:58.000 You know, and they use very similar phrasing.

02:21:00.000 You know, sharp as a tack was one of them.

02:21:02.000 And you saw that over and over again with Biden.

02:21:05.000 Like, sharp as a tack, sharp as a tack.

02:21:06.000 Oh, yeah.

02:21:07.000 Oh, my gosh.

02:21:08.000 So they were getting influenced and they were getting paid.

02:21:10.000 Yes.

02:21:11.000 You know, did you ever see that?

02:21:13.000 I'm sure, of course you would have.

02:21:14.000 But I remember when I was talking to Senator Johnson and he was exposing me to the Trusted News Initiative.

02:21:21.000 And this is the whole, the newscasters that have the exact same script and say the exact same thing.

02:21:26.000 It's Orwellian.

02:21:29.000 But in friggin' broad daylight.

02:21:32.000 Yep.

02:21:33.000 Guys, we have clips of all of you saying the exact same thing.

02:21:39.000 It's so clear.

02:21:40.000 It's a narrative.

02:21:41.000 And when he told me, he was, God, this blew my mind.

02:21:46.000 He went pre-COVID.

02:21:49.000 He was talking about this event at the Milken Institute where Fauci, and I'm going to screw this up, but I think it's this guy Rick Bright.

02:21:58.000 Forgive me because this may be wrong, but this group of people, definitely Fauci, were talking about what it would take to get a global vaccine program.

02:22:07.000 Fauci says, probably going to take a pandemic, and this is like five months before COVID.

02:22:13.000 You know, just put my tin hat on and roll myself in tinfoil and jump all the way down the rabbit hole.

02:22:19.000 But then Averill Haynes said, well, what are we going to do about misinformation at this event that she put on shortly after that?

02:22:26.000 And he said that's where they came up with the Trusted News Initiative right in time.

02:22:30.000 Well, not only that, they came up with a new term, and that term is malinformation.

02:22:36.000 Do you know what malinformation is?

02:22:38.000 Malinformation is true information that might do harm.

02:22:42.000 Did not know this.

02:22:43.000 So there's misinformation, disinformation, and malinformation.

02:22:49.000 I have not heard that.

02:22:50.000 Malinformation was something they were trying to promote during the Biden administration as being dangerous.

02:22:54.000 And it's essentially the truth.

02:22:56.000 I knew the we've got to reconsider the First Amendment.

02:23:00.000 Yeah.

02:23:01.000 I've seen all those clips.

02:23:03.000 That is some scary shit.

02:23:05.000 It's like Senator Kerry, Bill Gates, Hillary Clinton.

02:23:09.000 And do we criminalize people who are promoting this misinformation?

02:23:13.000 But I did not hear malinformation.

02:23:15.000 Did you ever see the CEO of NPR doing a TED Talk saying that sometimes the truth gets in the way of getting things done?

02:23:22.000 Oh.

02:23:22.000 God, no, but I've heard them all say that.

02:23:27.000 Oh, my God.

02:23:29.000 It's an infantilization of the public because they're too stupid to handle the truth.

02:23:36.000 They're dumber than you.

02:23:37.000 You're the purveyor of information, and you need to give them the information that gets things done.

02:23:43.000 And sometimes you have to lie to them.

02:23:45.000 Like, vaccines are safe and effective.

02:23:47.000 You, oh, my God.

02:23:48.000 What did you post?

02:23:49.000 I think it was the cover of The New Yorker.

02:23:52.000 But said something about doing away with the First Amendment.

02:23:55.000 Wonderful idea.

02:24:00.000 Like, wait, what the fuck are you talking about?

02:24:03.000 It's not like it's number 14, by the way, or number 5 is a number 1. The First Amendment.

02:24:13.000 It's in the way.

02:24:14.000 It's in the way.

02:24:15.000 That, to me, when you're having this debate about...

02:24:20.000 Kamala versus Trump.

02:24:23.000 I'm like, how do you guys have this selective outrage about what's flipping your shit?

02:24:31.000 I want to process for Kilmar and Braco Garcia, who, you know, probably beats his wife and is a suspect.

02:24:37.000 I get it.

02:24:38.000 Seems like he's got MS-13 tattooed on his knuckles.

02:24:42.000 Come on!

02:24:43.000 And there was a deportation order.

02:24:45.000 Just say it.

02:24:46.000 See the photographs that his wife puts out where she covers his knuckles in every picture?

02:24:50.000 Yes.

02:24:51.000 Yeah.

02:24:51.000 Yes.

02:24:52.000 Hilarious.

02:24:53.000 I mean...

02:24:53.000 So I was saying, oh my god, they deported a Maryland man and a father because that's what I was reading the news.

02:24:58.000 Same.

02:24:59.000 And then you get into it and you're like, oh, wait a minute.

02:25:01.000 Oh, hold on.

02:25:02.000 And then they released the dash cam footage, the police footage of when they arrested him.

02:25:08.000 Not dash cam.

02:25:09.000 You know, whatever the cops are wearing.

02:25:11.000 I know what you're talking about.

02:25:12.000 I thought the exact same thing.

02:25:14.000 It's crazy, but it's just like you can't just go on narratives because these narratives are just designed to make the Trump administration look like monsters.

02:25:24.000 I was giving an interview to this woman from the New York Times and she's like, but don't you see this?

02:25:29.000 And I was like, I do see it and I don't understand it and I wish it would be different.

02:25:32.000 But then you get into the lesser evils.

02:25:34.000 I wrote her back and I was like, I don't agree with my previous position based on the current information available to me now.

02:25:42.000 Yeah, it seems like he was a gang member.

02:25:43.000 But then there was that gay hairdresser that seems like he just got roped up.

02:25:47.000 I know.

02:25:48.000 And what I have learned so far, because I've really been trying to get to the bottom of that one, because I don't understand why the left isn't leaning on that one.

02:25:55.000 The other guy beats his wife, suspected trafficker.

02:25:58.000 You want to be outraged?

02:26:00.000 This guy is a gay hairdresser.

02:26:02.000 I guess he committed—I was listening to Tim Poole talk about this—immigration fraud.

02:26:08.000 So, listen, that guy's a tough one.

02:26:11.000 Okay, but that doesn't belong in an El Salvador prison.

02:26:13.000 I agree with you completely.

02:26:14.000 Also, he's not even from El Salvador, which is really crazy.

02:26:17.000 Now, okay, hold on.

02:26:18.000 Here would be the argument there.

02:26:21.000 I think, if I'm understanding it correctly, is that if somebody can be deported, but they are withheld because of asylum, Correct me if I'm wrong here.

02:26:33.000 Because they worry going back to their home country is dangerous or deadly, like Kilmer Obrego Garcia.

02:26:39.000 Because he's not a gang member, but he's afraid of being killed by other gangs that aren't MS-13.

02:26:44.000 You caught that one, right?

02:26:46.000 So it's like, I can't go home because the other gangs will kill me, but I'm not a gang member.

02:26:51.000 Nevertheless, there's a deportation order on him, so I believe that they can just send him to a third country, and that's not illegal.

02:26:59.000 That's something I heard.

02:27:00.000 Okay, but just violating immigration fraud when you're a gay hairdresser, you don't throw them in a fucking concentration camp.

02:27:07.000 You could not be more right about that.

02:27:09.000 But tell me then, why is the left not hanging there?

02:27:13.000 Why is he not the poster child, that guy?

02:27:15.000 Yeah.

02:27:16.000 Yeah, that's his knuckles.

02:27:18.000 People don't agree that that's what that means.

02:27:20.000 Oh, dude, I've talked to a guy who's a gang expert.

02:27:25.000 Two separate courts agreed.

02:27:26.000 I talked to a guy who's a gang expert to explain it to me.

02:27:29.000 He's like, yeah, this is how it works.

02:27:30.000 There was also an informant who confirmed.

02:27:33.000 Well, there's different versions of MS-13, but that's what it means.

02:27:36.000 Like marijuana, smiley face, Jesus, and then the skull.

02:27:41.000 I don't, I just, I'm just saying when I've looked online.

02:27:44.000 How is this the last poster child?

02:27:46.000 Okay, you can look online, but I mean, I talked to a gang expert that told me, that was explaining to me.

02:27:50.000 And there's a bunch of different versions of gang tattoos.

02:27:54.000 There's two courts that determined he was an MS-13 gang member.

02:27:58.000 The cops had an informant that was an extremely reliable source that said he is MS-13.

02:28:05.000 The guy, the wife.

02:28:07.000 It's like, he beats me, and then withdrew, I guess, but had filed a report.

02:28:12.000 To a protection order in 2021.

02:28:13.000 Yes, the cops pulled the guy over with eight guys in the car, going, like, from Texas to Maryland, I think, or from Maryland to Texas.

02:28:20.000 No luggage, no tools, and suspected him of trafficking.

02:28:23.000 I mean, and again, I will simply say, if your...

02:28:28.000 didn't apply for a...

02:28:28.000 Why are they hanging their hat on this one and not the gay hairdresser?

02:28:31.000 I'm asking you that!

02:28:33.000 Wouldn't that be your sacrificial lamb?

02:28:36.000 Yeah, because I heard Glenn Greenwald talk about the gay hairdresser and that one seems the most compelling.

02:28:40.000 I agree completely!

02:28:42.000 But there's no logic in this world anymore.

02:28:44.000 It's all kooky.

02:28:45.000 Like, whatever gets traction.

02:28:47.000 Maybe it's because he's got kids.

02:28:49.000 Oh, he's a father, a Maryland father.

02:28:52.000 That's what it is.

02:28:53.000 I keep saying, wrongly deported Maryland father.

02:28:56.000 Wrongly why?

02:28:57.000 Tell me what's wrong about it.

02:28:59.000 He had a deportation order, 100%, and then said, I am worried that the other gangs will kill me.

02:29:08.000 And so that's when they withheld the deportation order, but he can be deported to another country legally.

02:29:16.000 That's the part that, if he's not a gang member, why is he worried about being killed by other gangs?

02:29:21.000 I would just, like, this is a common sense piece that we...

02:29:25.000 I don't know.

02:29:26.000 I'd hang my hat on the gay hairdresser guy.

02:29:29.000 It's kooky.

02:29:30.000 I agree with you.

02:29:30.000 So, like, imagine, you know...

02:29:35.000 Inheriting this problem, like you've had open borders for four years, and they've let thousands and thousands of potential criminals in here, if not millions.

02:29:43.000 They've let millions of people.

02:29:45.000 Who knows how many of these people are suspected terrorists?

02:29:49.000 It's not just one.

02:29:51.000 It's not zero.

02:29:52.000 Okay, so what's the number?

02:29:53.000 I don't know.

02:29:54.000 How many of them are gang members?

02:29:55.000 Is it zero?

02:29:56.000 No, it's not zero.

02:29:57.000 So they let in gang members.

02:29:59.000 Okay.

02:30:00.000 How many of them are in the cartel?

02:30:02.000 It's not zero.

02:30:03.000 Okay, well, what the fuck do you do?

02:30:05.000 What do you do if you want to clean up this mess that has been In mass for four years.

02:30:10.000 Exactly.

02:30:11.000 Just flooded.

02:30:12.000 Open borders.

02:30:13.000 Not just open borders, but like bussing them in, flying them in, giving them debit cards, giving them phones.

02:30:22.000 Oh my God.

02:30:22.000 Interest-free loans in California.

02:30:24.000 Yeah.

02:30:25.000 Loopholes that Gavin Newsom has created to give them health care.

02:30:28.000 Billions of dollars in health care.

02:30:29.000 My friggin' 35-year-old brother can't get a home loan and can't get health care, but his tax dollars.

02:30:35.000 He needs to change his name in Mexico and walk across the border.

02:30:38.000 I told him a couple of times.

02:30:40.000 I was like, Greg, you know, burn the passport, babe.

02:30:42.000 This will work.

02:30:43.000 You know, he's half Latin.

02:30:45.000 He's my half brother.

02:30:45.000 He could get away with it.

02:30:46.000 He looks the part.

02:30:47.000 It is bananas.

02:30:50.000 But it's all a political ploy.

02:30:52.000 And the idea that they're not doing it to get votes is crazy.

02:30:55.000 Because that's what they're doing.

02:30:57.000 There's a reason why the vast majority of them get moved to swing states.

02:31:01.000 Like, they're doing it on purpose.

02:31:02.000 Yeah.

02:31:03.000 Okay.

02:31:03.000 And Elon has been talking about this, and it's one of the other reasons why they call him a Nazi.

02:31:08.000 I've had this conversation with intelligent people, and they're like, well, there's no evidence that they're voting.

02:31:15.000 Okay.

02:31:16.000 But if we were to game this all the way out, if I was to hit Elon's points that I believe I understand, first of all, I think they can vote in some states in local elections.

02:31:25.000 Yes.

02:31:25.000 In New York.

02:31:29.000 God forbid, the President of the United States.

02:31:31.000 So there's a reason we've got this whole grassroots thing going on, I would imagine.

02:31:35.000 And then I'm told that when they sign up for benefits, they potentially can sign them up to...

02:31:41.000 Reach out to them to vote.

02:31:42.000 That could be conspiracy theory, though.

02:31:44.000 Very much so.

02:31:44.000 I'm talking out of my ass.

02:31:45.000 I don't know.

02:31:46.000 Right, but it's not a conspiracy that they're giving them Social Security numbers.

02:31:49.000 Oh, did not know that.

02:31:51.000 Yeah, because if you...

02:31:52.000 I did not know that.

02:31:53.000 There's a woman who was explaining when she was working for the Social Security...

02:31:59.000 Office what they would have her do.

02:32:01.000 So they would have them get permanent disability and the way they get permanent disability is just to have to say you have a back problem.

02:32:08.000 So if you have a back problem then you have permanent disability and if you get permanent disability then they start labeling them as a client.

02:32:14.000 If you label them as a client then they get money forever.

02:32:19.000 And so if then you have people like Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and all these people saying, we need to give these people a road to citizenship.

02:32:28.000 Okay.

02:32:28.000 Well, then you potentially have millions and millions of people.

02:32:31.000 Now, if the Democrats are in charge, they can change the rules and make it so that these people have a road to citizenship.

02:32:38.000 Then they can vote on elections.

02:32:39.000 So now you've imported millions of people that are going to vote for sure for the people who gave them the money, not for the people who hired Tom Holman to kick everybody out.

02:32:49.000 Here's another question.

02:32:50.000 Why are you not requiring identification to vote?

02:32:53.000 Because it's racist.

02:32:54.000 Oh!

02:32:55.000 Well, not only are you not requiring it, in California you're not allowed to show it.

02:32:59.000 It is illegal to show your identification when you vote.

02:33:03.000 There's only one reason why you would do that.

02:33:05.000 It's because you want fraud.

02:33:08.000 Exactly.

02:33:09.000 When I ask people who are on the other side, I'm like, game this out for me.

02:33:13.000 Steelman this argument.

02:33:14.000 What is the logic?

02:33:15.000 You see Kathy Hochul's logic about that?

02:33:17.000 No.

02:33:18.000 A lot of these black kids, they don't even know what a computer is.

02:33:20.000 Oh, I have seen that.

02:33:21.000 Oh, my God.

02:33:22.000 And I saw the black guy making fun of her.

02:33:24.000 Yes.

02:33:24.000 They're just like running around the computer.

02:33:26.000 Like, what is this?

02:33:27.000 Oh, my God.

02:33:28.000 Which is the most racist thing that you could possibly see.

02:33:32.000 By the way, every fucking kid has a computer.

02:33:35.000 They all have phones.

02:33:36.000 Did you see that video?

02:33:37.000 I think it came out of PragerU where they were saying like, well, you know, black people don't have access to ID and they can't figure out the same thing.

02:33:47.000 It's the most disgustingly racist thing that you can say!

02:33:51.000 What about poor white people that live in West Virginia?

02:33:54.000 It's so gross.

02:33:55.000 Dirt poor.

02:33:56.000 Staggeringly gross.

02:33:57.000 It's crazy.

02:33:59.000 Okay, how about this one?

02:34:00.000 I've also been told that the more people you have, in a census, it doesn't matter if they're legal citizens, you get more representation.

02:34:07.000 Yeah, you get more seats.

02:34:07.000 Well, then, effectively, you can make a president a lame duck if you've got...

02:34:10.000 Right.

02:34:10.000 Exactly.

02:34:11.000 That's why California's losing seats.

02:34:14.000 Because people are escaping.

02:34:16.000 Escaping is the perfect word.

02:34:16.000 That is what it is.

02:34:17.000 It's escaping.

02:34:18.000 I go on record as saying...

02:34:20.000 I am pro-legal immigration.

02:34:23.000 Well, I'm the grandchild of immigrants.

02:34:25.000 My whole family came from Italy and Ireland.

02:34:27.000 Unless you're Native American.

02:34:29.000 And when you appreciate the ways in which legal immigration...

02:34:36.000 Enriches a community, stimulates the economy, and you can control the flow.

02:34:40.000 And as Gad Saad likes to explain, they support their host community when they're brought in legally.

02:34:48.000 But when it's illegal, it overwhelms the infrastructure.

02:34:50.000 You bring in criminals.

02:34:52.000 You don't know who's here.

02:34:53.000 Suicidal empathy.

02:34:55.000 Brilliant.

02:34:56.000 He's such a genius.

02:34:58.000 Thanks to you, I know of him for many years now.

02:35:02.000 He's an absolute genius.

02:35:04.000 He articulates it like no one else.

02:35:06.000 And he's seeing the rise of anti-Semitism in Montreal right now at a staggering rate.

02:35:12.000 I have to admit that I...

02:35:14.000 He's a guy who escaped Lamedon for the same reasons.

02:35:17.000 I do tend to lean.

02:35:19.000 Dave Smith, after the show you did the other day...

02:35:23.000 I reached out to him and I was like, alright, I gotta tell you, I've always leaned more pro-Israel and you opened my mind to a few things.

02:35:32.000 Don't become a monster to fight monsters.

02:35:35.000 I won't!

02:35:35.000 That's what it is.

02:35:36.000 But that's the thing.

02:35:37.000 It's like the horrors that you're seeing in Gaza.

02:35:42.000 It's like, okay, you're fighting Hamas.

02:35:44.000 Hamas are monsters.

02:35:45.000 That's right.

02:35:46.000 But you didn't let aid into the country.

02:35:49.000 Yeah, even worse.

02:35:50.000 I didn't even know that.

02:35:51.000 They killed aid workers.

02:35:52.000 It gets scary.

02:35:54.000 It gets really scary when you believe that someone's helping the enemy, so they become the enemy.

02:36:00.000 And it's not that you don't like Jews.

02:36:04.000 I'll preface by saying, my grandmother ran from the friggin' Nazis, according to my 23andMe.

02:36:10.000 30-something percent Jewish.

02:36:11.000 However, I don't necessarily like Netanyahu, and I don't agree with a lot of the ways he's handled it.

02:36:19.000 But it doesn't mean I don't understand what happened.

02:36:21.000 I'm not appalled.

02:36:22.000 I'm not disgusted.

02:36:23.000 I personally think that kid Mahmoud Khalil should get the fuck out of here.

02:36:28.000 Personally, I'm sorry.

02:36:30.000 The kid, I could get into that one, too.

02:36:34.000 I see all of that, and I lean more towards the Israel.

02:36:38.000 Well, I completely understand how they could look at things the way they are.

02:36:42.000 They're surrounded.

02:36:42.000 Yes.

02:36:43.000 They're surrounded by Arab states.

02:36:44.000 Yeah.

02:36:45.000 And, you know, I mean, if you have been attacked relentlessly since the beginning of, you know, whatever, 1948.

02:36:52.000 If it's in the charter, you know, kill all Jews.

02:36:54.000 I mean, that's, you know.

02:36:55.000 That's not good.

02:36:56.000 That's not good.

02:36:57.000 I don't know.

02:36:58.000 Then you see, like, trans people from Palestine, like, hey.

02:37:04.000 Like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

02:37:08.000 Do you fucking know what they would do to you?

02:37:12.000 It's complicated, right?

02:37:18.000 The world is a very complicated thing.

02:37:20.000 It's a nuanced conversation as well.

02:37:22.000 I gotta tell you, I was riveted by that debate.

02:37:25.000 And both of them made excellent points.

02:37:28.000 I learned a ton.

02:37:30.000 And changed my mind on some things.

02:37:32.000 I friggin' loved it.

02:37:34.000 I thought they both...

02:37:35.000 I'm sorry at the end of the day.

02:37:37.000 I thought they both made great points.

02:37:39.000 I really did.

02:37:40.000 Yeah, for sure.

02:37:40.000 I just wish that Douglas didn't misrepresent certain people.

02:37:43.000 I understand that.

02:37:44.000 Like Daryl.

02:37:44.000 Like the Daryl gentleman.

02:37:45.000 Yeah, the Daryl thing's crazy.

02:37:47.000 I actually never saw that show with him, so I wasn't able to fully comprehend the accusations.

02:37:54.000 And simply thought, like, you can't gatekeep information, and people are, if somebody's going to believe that if this was in fact the truth, right, and he was this guy that was saying Hitler was innocent, or not innocent, but the lesser evil with regard to...

02:38:06.000 Churchill versus Hitler.

02:38:07.000 He definitely wasn't saying that.

02:38:08.000 But what he was really saying that apparently historians also agree with it, that Hitler kind of hid his anti-Semitism early on.

02:38:18.000 And that early on during his rise, he would keep it confined, like the really rampant anti-Semitism, he'd keep it confined to these like smaller meetings.

02:38:26.000 I didn't know that.

02:38:27.000 He's like, he's Jewish, isn't he?

02:38:29.000 He was a Jew, wasn't he?

02:38:31.000 Who?

02:38:32.000 I think Hitler was a Jew.

02:38:33.000 What?

02:38:33.000 Jamie, will you check that?

02:38:35.000 Hitler was a Jew.

02:38:36.000 Hold on, I think so.

02:38:37.000 I think he had some Jewish blood.

02:38:38.000 Check it real quick, will ya?

02:38:40.000 I remember hearing...

02:38:41.000 That sounds crazy.

02:38:41.000 I remember hearing something like this.

02:38:42.000 Well, it's only like you believe in the alien race with blonde hair, blue eye.

02:38:46.000 Hey, bro, that's not you.

02:38:47.000 That's not it.

02:38:47.000 Hold on, I feel like there was some...

02:38:49.000 Hold on.

02:38:50.000 Oh, is it bullshit?

02:38:51.000 No, he was not Jewish.

02:38:52.000 Oh, okay.

02:38:52.000 While rumors and conspiracy theories have circulated suggesting a Jewish grandfather, a Jewish ancestry, these claims are not supported by any historical evidence and are widely dismissed by a historian.

02:39:02.000 Oh, Jesus.

02:39:02.000 All right, I shit the bet on that one.

02:39:03.000 I shit the bet on that one.

02:39:05.000 It's really fascinating because he is one of the worst figures in history.

02:39:12.000 Like, everybody...

02:39:15.000 Other than really complete psychopaths agree with that.

02:39:18.000 Right, that's what I'm saying!

02:39:20.000 One of the worst figures in human history.

02:39:20.000 If you can't disseminate that bit of information, because, let's say, again, hypothetically, this gentleman Daryl was trying to make that point, then you're an idiot.

02:39:31.000 Like, if you can't determine, there are skinheads in KKK that are going to tell you the same thing.

02:39:38.000 If you can't determine that that person's fucked up.

02:39:42.000 You're an idiot!

02:39:43.000 That's not really the argument, though.

02:39:45.000 It's like no one's really saying that.

02:39:46.000 No, I know.

02:39:48.000 I'm suggesting that if the worst case scenario was that.

02:39:52.000 But I appreciate what you're saying.

02:39:55.000 That wasn't his point.

02:39:56.000 And I have not done any homework on it.

02:39:59.000 He tries to look at things from everybody's view.

02:40:03.000 He tries, like, imagine you're this person.

02:40:06.000 Imagine you're a German citizen.

02:40:10.000 And you've just gotten through World War I and the whole world hates you.

02:40:14.000 Like, imagine this.

02:40:15.000 And then the drug thing is a big part of World War II.

02:40:19.000 It's a giant part of it.

02:40:20.000 Like, the fucking whole army was on meth.

02:40:23.000 That is so crazy.

02:40:25.000 That is so fucking crazy.

02:40:26.000 Really, you should read Blitz.

02:40:28.000 It's really fascinating.

02:40:29.000 Because they had, like, an over-the-counter meth that you could buy.

02:40:33.000 What was it called?

02:40:33.000 Oh, yes!

02:40:34.000 The candy thing!

02:40:35.000 What was it called?

02:40:37.000 Pervitin.

02:40:38.000 Yes.

02:40:38.000 I remember seeing that on your show.

02:40:40.000 It was everywhere.

02:40:40.000 It was nuts.

02:40:40.000 And it was like a little candy tin.

02:40:42.000 Yeah.

02:40:42.000 They were all eating meth.

02:40:45.000 Super productive.

02:40:46.000 That's right.

02:40:47.000 That's why they have such great engineers.

02:40:49.000 They're like, argh, they're fucking dialed in.

02:40:51.000 You know?

02:40:52.000 This is true.

02:40:53.000 Yeah.

02:40:54.000 This is, you make, yeah, okay.

02:40:56.000 Oh, God damn.

02:40:59.000 That's bright.

02:41:00.000 A lot of dark spots here.

02:41:02.000 I apologize.

02:41:03.000 There's a lot of darkness in human history.

02:41:05.000 A lot of it.

02:41:07.000 A lot of evil.

02:41:08.000 A lot of horrible consequences and a lot of lessons that we really learn but then unlearn.

02:41:13.000 And that's what people are terrified of with this like Hitler apologist perspective.

02:41:19.000 Don't unlearn this one huge fucking lesson.

02:41:24.000 Look, a guy like Hitler can exist.

02:41:27.000 They can rise to power and become monsters and destroy countless lives.

02:41:33.000 It's impossible to really quantify the amount of damage that guy did.

02:41:38.000 Don't unlearn that.

02:41:39.000 And I get that.

02:41:40.000 I get that.

02:41:41.000 But don't also label someone as someone who didn't learn that when they're talking about it openly, discussing.

02:41:48.000 I mean, Daryl talks about what a fucking psychotic, drug-addled monster Hitler was all the time.

02:41:54.000 It's a part of his stuff.

02:41:55.000 But you would have to actually consume his work.

02:41:58.000 And Douglass admittedly never listened to him.

02:42:00.000 He was just taking this narrative, this...

02:42:04.000 It's a very reductionist narrative that's very incorrect and just saying it over and over again and saying it on Bill Maher to applause breaks.

02:42:12.000 But it's not what he's saying.

02:42:13.000 It's stupid.

02:42:14.000 I saw that.

02:42:14.000 I did see that.

02:42:15.000 I was kind of disappointed by it.

02:42:17.000 I was like, oh no.

02:42:19.000 It's not, you know, it's not correct.

02:42:22.000 I hear you.

02:42:24.000 Do you find that you fall victim to that sometimes?

02:42:26.000 I see myself do it on occasion where you hear a narrative and I don't dig deeper on it.

02:42:34.000 I've been guilty of it a couple of times.

02:42:37.000 I apologized to Bobby Kennedy when he came here because I said I believed everything about you before I read your book.

02:42:42.000 I thought you were this kook who doesn't believe in vaccines and he's an anti-science guy and a conspiracy theorist.

02:42:48.000 And then I read the real Anthony Fauci.

02:42:50.000 I was like, oh.

02:42:52.000 Bananas.

02:42:53.000 That book's fucking nuts.

02:42:54.000 It is.

02:42:55.000 And by the way, again, said it before, say it again, he would be sued if it wasn't true.

02:43:00.000 And it is true.

02:43:00.000 And what he did during the, just what he did during the AIDS crisis.

02:43:04.000 And I know that they gave him a blanket pardon from everything from 2014.

02:43:09.000 Weird.

02:43:10.000 Where did they choose that date?

02:43:12.000 Where'd they choose that date when Obama had decided to get rid of gain-of-function research and this motherfucker was like outsourcing it?

02:43:19.000 Yep, he was.

02:43:20.000 Yeah.

02:43:21.000 You know what's crazy?

02:43:21.000 We're still not having that conversation.

02:43:23.000 No.

02:43:24.000 Not in any meaningful way.

02:43:25.000 Well, at least it's in the White House now.

02:43:27.000 And that page is very comprehensive.

02:43:29.000 But it's all right.

02:43:29.000 Go to that page again because it's kind of hilarious.

02:43:32.000 Is it really?

02:43:32.000 Because it Trump's in the middle of it, like walking, like he's getting shit done.

02:43:35.000 Have you seen it?

02:43:36.000 I've not seen it!

02:43:37.000 That might be how they tricked him into putting this page out there.

02:43:41.000 Well, he lifted the moratorium?

02:43:41.000 That's the irony, I think, didn't he?

02:43:44.000 Obama put a moratorium on it, and I think Trump lifted the friggin' moratorium.

02:43:47.000 I think it happened.

02:43:48.000 Oh my gosh!

02:43:50.000 Stop!

02:43:51.000 This is awesome!

02:43:52.000 I'm here to take care of business.

02:43:53.000 I got a serious look on my face.

02:43:54.000 And why are they, like, the true origins of COVID-19?

02:43:57.000 Like, COVID signed it.

02:43:58.000 Oh my god!

02:43:59.000 What is that?

02:44:00.000 Why is it a signature?

02:44:01.000 You know what?

02:44:01.000 Callie posted this, and he's like, can any scientist tell me what on this page isn't true?

02:44:05.000 And I kind of thought this was a joke.

02:44:07.000 I thought it was...

02:44:08.000 No, scroll the whole thing.

02:44:11.000 It's explaining the whole thing.

02:44:13.000 The virus possesses...

02:44:14.000 Scroll up.

02:44:15.000 Virus possesses biological characteristics that is not found in nature, in italics.

02:44:23.000 Data shows that all COVID-19 cases stem from a single, in italics, single introduction into humans.

02:44:30.000 This runs contrary to previous pandemics where there were multiple spillover events.

02:44:36.000 Wuhan is home to China's foremost SARS research lab, which has a history of conducting gain-of-function research, gene altering and organism supercharging.

02:44:46.000 Wow.

02:44:47.000 At inadequate biosafety levels.

02:44:50.000 And this is where Fauci, you know, they could get him on perjury because he was, you know, when he was being questioned, when he said famously to Rand Paul, you do not know what you are talking about.

02:45:04.000 Yeah, look, there's a photo of him.

02:45:06.000 With his hand.

02:45:08.000 You've read the email where his team obviously is like, yo, listen, this is highly suspect.

02:45:14.000 Clearly gained a function of research.

02:45:15.000 And then after he communicated with them, they all changed their opinion.

02:45:18.000 Yeah, for the sake of science and global harmony, let's not pursue this path.

02:45:23.000 And then the nature study came out.

02:45:26.000 Yeah, so you can download the house oversight.

02:45:28.000 Crazy.

02:45:29.000 That looks like a report my daughter would put together, by the way, for high school.

02:45:32.000 Yeah, it's so crazy.

02:45:33.000 But what's even more amazing is that each and every one of those points is exactly what Brett Weinstein laid out on your show in March of 2020.

02:45:42.000 Yeah.

02:45:43.000 And I remember...

02:45:44.000 And he was labeled a grandma killer.

02:45:45.000 I pulled the freaking car over and started Googling shit on the side of Pacific Coast Highway.

02:45:51.000 Yeah.

02:45:52.000 And that was my Neo moment in The Matrix.

02:45:55.000 That was it.

02:45:56.000 I was forever gone.

02:45:58.000 Took the red pill.

02:45:59.000 I'm glad you took it.

02:46:00.000 It was over, man.

02:46:01.000 I'm glad you're on the right side.

02:46:02.000 Thank you, sir.

02:46:03.000 Thank you, sir.

02:46:04.000 Thanks for being here.

02:46:04.000 I really enjoyed talking to you, too.

02:46:06.000 It was a lot of fun.

02:46:06.000 Thank you for having me.

02:46:08.000 Keep fighting the good fight.

02:46:09.000 I will.

02:46:10.000 You too.

02:46:10.000 Thank you.

02:46:11.000 All right.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 30, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2313 - Jillian Michaels

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