The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2321 - Dr. Zahi Hawass

00:00:13.000 I'll talk to you forever.

00:00:17.000 I have so many questions.

00:00:18.000 I'm very excited to meet you.

00:00:20.000 Same.

00:00:20.000 I've seen you in documentaries for decades.

00:00:23.000 So many documentaries.

00:00:24.000 I've watched so many things about Egypt.

00:00:26.000 I'm completely fascinated by it.

00:00:27.000 You know, I will tell you something.

00:00:29.000 Do you know this guy used to do a radio show late evening?

00:00:34.000 Art Bell?

00:00:35.000 The best.

00:00:36.000 He was the best.

00:00:37.000 I need to say this on air.

00:00:39.000 I need to say this story on air.

00:00:41.000 Okay.

00:00:42.000 Are we on air now?

00:00:43.000 Yeah, we're on air.

00:00:44.000 Art Bell used every evening to attack me.

00:00:48.000 He attacked you?

00:00:48.000 Yes.

00:00:49.000 Oh.

00:00:49.000 How the Egyptians can move stones.

00:00:54.000 That's not true.

00:00:56.000 The Egyptians cannot do that. 0.96

00:00:58.000 Then I was teaching at UCLA, and he called me for an interview.

00:01:03.000 I said, no, I'm not going to give you an interview until you come to visit me in Egypt.

00:01:09.000 And he said, okay.

00:01:10.000 He came with his wife.

00:01:12.000 I took him to a quarry that we are cutting stones to construct the Sphinx.

00:01:19.000 Then I brought a stone, eight tons weight.

00:01:25.000 And I brought a man on the age of 70. And I told this man, cut this stone.

00:01:31.000 The old man stood above the stone.

00:01:34.000 You know, stones have weak parts like us.

00:01:37.000 With a pencil, he drew a line from the beginning to the end.

00:01:46.000 In the middle, he put a piece of iron.

00:01:50.000 He cut it for twice.

00:01:53.000 Acid art, the Egyptian, doesn't use muscles. 0.75

00:01:57.000 They use their brain.

00:01:59.000 Because the pyramid was the national project of the whole nation.

00:02:04.000 If you go today, if I take you today with me, and you know, I always tell people this.

00:02:10.000 I give lectures maybe three, four times a week for American groups.

00:02:15.000 And I tell them the following.

00:02:18.000 If you stood in front of the Great Pyramid and you look at it, you will never believe that this pyramid built by human beings.

00:02:26.000 Why?

00:02:27.000 Because you don't know.

00:02:28.000 And number two, if you try to do it today, you will never be able to do it.

00:02:32.000 Are you going to hire today 10,000 workmen to work for 28 years for nothing?

00:02:40.000 That was the national project of the whole nation.

00:02:44.000 I think Art Bell's real...

00:02:47.000 Concern was how would someone possibly move those stones 4,500 years ago?

00:02:53.000 Okay.

00:02:53.000 A lot of questions, right?

00:02:54.000 Yes.

00:02:55.000 But can I answer you now?

00:02:56.000 Yes, please.

00:02:59.000 Listen.

00:03:00.000 Two examples I will tell you.

00:03:03.000 The first example happened a few years ago.

00:03:07.000 I discovered a tomb in a site called Abusir.

00:03:12.000 In the top of the tomb, there was...

00:03:16.000 A huge granite sarcophagus.

00:03:19.000 20 tons weight.

00:03:22.000 Okay?

00:03:23.000 Okay.

00:03:24.000 If you come to Egypt... 0.98

00:03:26.000 Have you been to Egypt?

00:03:27.000 No, I haven't.

00:03:28.000 You have to.

00:03:28.000 If you talk about Egypt...

00:03:29.000 I know, I have to.

00:03:30.000 You have to come.

00:03:30.000 I know.

00:03:31.000 But you have to tell me before you come.

00:03:32.000 I will tell you.

00:03:33.000 Now...

00:03:34.000 I promise.

00:03:34.000 I brought only 10 people.

00:03:37.000 Because I called the Minister of Culture.

00:03:44.000 And I told him...

00:03:45.000 We found an intact tube.

00:03:49.000 And the minister said, wait, I will bring the reporter, the press, and we'll do it live.

00:03:55.000 I said, okay, but I hate to do anything live.

00:03:58.000 Then I came to the site.

00:04:00.000 I brought my workmen.

00:04:02.000 Ten workmen only moved the 20 tons only by wooden sledges.

00:04:10.000 We found underneath another sarcophagus.

00:04:15.000 Ten tons weight of granite.

00:04:16.000 We took the third one and we found underneath another, a third one, five tons weight.

00:04:23.000 We took the five tons out and we found underneath a coffin with the mummy.

00:04:28.000 And I told the workman, put everything back.

00:04:31.000 And I called the minister.

00:04:32.000 I said, you can bring the press.

00:04:34.000 We'll open it life.

00:04:35.000 I never told him that they cheated him.

00:04:37.000 But only in a site that I'm excavating right now.

00:04:42.000 We do discover 60 feet under the ground.

00:04:44.000 We discover sealed sarcophagus.

00:04:47.000 The lid is about 10 tons of weight.

00:04:52.000 Two workmen only opened the lid for me.

00:04:55.000 We have a machine called the devil.

00:04:58.000 I don't know why they called it the devil.

00:05:00.000 Devil?

00:05:01.000 Devil.

00:05:02.000 Why?

00:05:02.000 I don't know.

00:05:03.000 I asked them.

00:05:04.000 They said our grandfathers called it like that.

00:05:08.000 This is an ancient machine?

00:05:09.000 It is an ancient machine.

00:05:11.000 Jamie could probably pull it up.

00:05:12.000 It's probably online.

00:05:13.000 Then they put this machine under the lid, and they come doing it like this, and they raise the lid a little bit.

00:05:23.000 When the lid is laced, they put a piece of wood, another piece of wood, until there is a half a feet that I can put my face inside with a flashlight to see what's inside the coffin.

00:05:41.000 That's what we...

00:05:42.000 Because the people today are the descendants of the ancient Egyptians.

00:05:47.000 There is a village located north of Luxor.

00:05:52.000 And this village, all the people work in Antiquities.

00:05:56.000 And they know, if you look at their faces, exactly like the ancient Egyptian people.

00:06:01.000 And all the people work with me.

00:06:03.000 I'm executing right now.

00:06:04.000 In Giza, we're going to tell you good news inside the Great Pyramid that we found.

00:06:10.000 And also in Saqqara and Luxor.

00:06:13.000 And this is why in my lecture tour now, I'm making major important announcements that we'll talk about with you today.

00:06:21.000 Okay.

00:06:21.000 What did you find?

00:06:22.000 Now, you know, can I call you Joe?

00:06:28.000 Please do.

00:06:29.000 And you call me Zahi.

00:06:30.000 Okay.

00:06:31.000 Now, you know, I do receive fan emails.

00:06:35.000 You've received emails?

00:06:37.000 Fan.

00:06:38.000 Fan emails.

00:06:39.000 About 50 a week.

00:06:41.000 Some of them, bad ones.

00:06:44.000 Some people think that I discovered evidence to prove that pyramids built by aliens or lost civilization and I hide them.

00:06:57.000 I never answer these questions.

00:06:59.000 But to you, I tell you, how do I, how can I hide anything?

00:07:03.000 I'm not working alone.

00:07:05.000 I'm working with people.

00:07:06.000 You cannot hide anything because people will see you.

00:07:10.000 And I will tell you a joke.

00:07:13.000 It happened, but it's a joke.

00:07:16.000 A reporter came to see me from California to my office, and my office was located next to the Great Pyramid of Kufu.

00:07:27.000 And he said to me, people say at 12 noon, you leave your office and you go to the bathroom, and you open a tunnel from your bathroom.

00:07:37.000 Really, it's what he said.

00:07:38.000 And you go from the tunnel, To the Great Pyramid.

00:07:42.000 Oh.

00:07:42.000 And you hide things and you come back.

00:07:44.000 I said, okay, what do you need from me now?

00:07:46.000 He said, I want to see your bathroom.

00:07:49.000 This really happened.

00:07:51.000 He went to my bathroom.

00:07:53.000 Did he check all the panels?

00:07:54.000 And he came back.

00:07:55.000 I said, have you seen any tunnels in my bathroom?

00:07:57.000 He said, no.

00:07:58.000 I said, what are you going to do now?

00:08:00.000 He said, I will publish your bathroom in the internet. 0.96

00:08:04.000 And therefore, if you want to see my bathroom, write W, W. Is that much of an issue?

00:08:13.000 That people really believe that you had to make a website for it?

00:08:16.000 They do.

00:08:16.000 They do believe in this.

00:08:17.000 And some of them attack me badly.

00:08:20.000 Well, that's part of the problem, right?

00:08:22.000 The Egyptian pyramids and just Egypt in general is so spectacular.

00:08:27.000 The accomplishments of the ancient Egyptians were so monumental and so above anything that anybody had ever achieved.

00:08:34.000 And since.

00:08:35.000 You know, what they've done...

00:08:38.000 Thousands and thousands of years ago, still to this day, puzzles people when they try to figure out how it was built.

00:08:43.000 I will tell you.

00:08:45.000 You will tell me how it was built?

00:08:46.000 Of course.

00:08:46.000 Okay.

00:08:48.000 How do you know?

00:08:50.000 How do you know?

00:08:51.000 I found all the evidence of building the pyramid.

00:08:54.000 We published a book, 1,000 pages.

00:08:58.000 This book is the Bible of the pyramids of Giza Plateau.

00:09:03.000 Okay.

00:09:03.000 Tell me how they did it.

00:09:04.000 Now.

00:09:06.000 What we found out, the major problem that people think about pyramids, because most of the information that's written on pyramids are wrong.

00:09:18.000 Most of it?

00:09:19.000 Most of it.

00:09:20.000 In archaeology books?

00:09:21.000 In archaeology books.

00:09:22.000 Really?

00:09:22.000 Except me and Mark Liener.

00:09:25.000 You guys are the only ones that have it right?

00:09:27.000 Because I have been working in Gaza for the last 50, 70 years of my life.

00:09:32.000 I excavated every piece of sand.

00:09:35.000 Okay, what do the archaeologists have wrong in these archaeologists' books?

00:09:40.000 For example, number one, they say that the workmen who built the pyramids worked only four months a year.

00:09:48.000 When the flood covered the whole country, the king hired the workmen to work in this pyramid.

00:09:55.000 This is wrong.

00:09:56.000 And I will tell you what's correct.

00:09:57.000 Number two, that the stones used in building the Great Pyramid, How many blocks are there?

00:10:22.000 Now, let us talk about number one, the workman.

00:10:25.000 The workman.

00:10:26.000 I found the tombs of the pyramid builders.

00:10:29.000 Only one mile.

00:10:32.000 South of the Sphinx.

00:10:34.000 A major important discovery that can tell everyone, number one, that pyramids built by Egyptians because of the names that we found inside the cemetery.

00:10:47.000 And they were no slaves.

00:10:49.000 Is that your phone?

00:10:50.000 I have to.

00:10:51.000 I have to.

00:10:52.000 Yeah, kill that thing. 1.00

00:10:53.000 Kill it.

00:10:54.000 You're right.

00:10:55.000 I always, because I do lots of interviews, I always close it.

00:10:58.000 Oh, I get it.

00:10:59.000 Except for today.

00:11:00.000 No worries.

00:11:03.000 Nobody knows how to shut these things off anymore.

00:11:07.000 Then now, this discovery...

00:11:09.000 Okay, so explain.

00:11:10.000 So you found the pyramids?

00:11:12.000 Excuse me, you found the workers' pyramids' graves a mile away.

00:11:17.000 Away, one mile south of the pyramids.

00:11:20.000 And by their names?

00:11:22.000 Then I found names of the workmen.

00:11:26.000 I found the lower symmetry.

00:11:27.000 The lower symmetry were for the burial of the workmen who moved the stones.

00:11:33.000 And the upper cemetery was for the technicians.

00:11:37.000 Right.

00:11:37.000 And how do you know this?

00:11:38.000 I will tell you.

00:11:39.000 Okay.

00:11:39.000 Now, the tombs down there are very primitive tombs, built from mud brick, cost nothing.

00:11:48.000 Underneath is a skeleton.

00:11:50.000 And if the skeleton is for a man, he's holding a beer jar.

00:11:56.000 He won't drink beer in the afterlife.

00:11:58.000 If the skeleton is for a woman, she has perfume vessels. 0.98

00:12:02.000 So he wants to have perfume in the afterlife.

00:12:04.000 Inside the upper cemetery, I found 21 titles in hieroglyphic.

00:12:11.000 For example, the overseer in hieroglyphic of the side of the pyramid.

00:12:18.000 Oh, it says that?

00:12:19.000 The overseer of the side of the pyramid?

00:12:21.000 Yes.

00:12:23.000 In hieroglyphic.

00:12:24.000 The overseer of the west side of the pyramid.

00:12:28.000 Craftsman.

00:12:30.000 Craftsman.

00:12:30.000 The one who stand in front of the harbor.

00:12:33.000 All these titles had to do with building the pyramid.

00:12:37.000 Inside the tombs, we found the tools that the Egyptians used to cut the stones.

00:12:43.000 What tools?

00:12:44.000 Diorite and flint tools.

00:12:47.000 Because in the Old Kingdom, there was no iron.

00:12:50.000 Are these photos of these tools available online?

00:12:53.000 Can we look at them?

00:12:54.000 Yeah, I can send it to you.

00:12:55.000 Can we see them online?

00:12:56.000 No, in my book.

00:12:58.000 Giza and the pyramids.

00:12:59.000 I don't know if it's online.

00:13:00.000 I'm sure it's online.

00:13:01.000 Jamie will find it.

00:13:02.000 So these tools were flint and durite?

00:13:05.000 What is durite?

00:13:07.000 D-I-O-R-I-T-E. 1.00

00:13:10.000 Durite is more sharp stone than iron.

00:13:15.000 And it came from a quarry south of Aswan.

00:13:22.000 So you feel like they used this very hard stone to cut into the ground.

00:13:28.000 To this cutting the stones.

00:13:29.000 But let me continue about the workmen.

00:13:32.000 To the east of the tombs, we found an area for sorting salted fish.

00:13:38.000 We found an area for the bakery making bread.

00:13:42.000 We found the workmen barracks for the workmen who want the stones to live. 0.58

00:13:47.000 We found a whole city for the technicians, for the artisans.

00:13:51.000 And we discovered thousands of animal bones because people always say, That the workmen who built the pyramid, they ate only garlic and bread and drink beer.

00:14:04.000 And I thought if they do that, they will die.

00:14:07.000 But now we discovered that they slaughter 11 cows and 33 goats every day.

00:14:15.000 And this can feed 10,000 workmen a day.

00:14:18.000 Then we believe now, and I published, that the workmen who built the pyramids were 10,000 workmen.

00:14:24.000 And they worked every day, and they took one day off every ten days.

00:14:29.000 Joe, I want to tell you, the pyramid was a national project.

00:14:32.000 The three millions who lived in Egypt had to build the pyramid for the king to be a god.

00:14:38.000 And therefore, the households in the south and the north of Egypt participated in building the pyramid by sending workforce and food to help the king.

00:14:49.000 Now we come to the second point, the stones.

00:14:52.000 We discovered...

00:14:54.000 That all the stones of the three pyramids at Giza, the stones came from quarries in the site itself.

00:15:02.000 Even the king's chamber?

00:15:04.000 No, except the granite in the king's chamber.

00:15:09.000 And where'd that come from?

00:15:11.000 From Aswan.

00:15:12.000 And that's 500 miles away, right?

00:15:13.000 Yes, by the flood.

00:15:15.000 And those were 50 to 80 tons?

00:15:18.000 It doesn't matter.

00:15:19.000 It doesn't?

00:15:20.000 Yes.

00:15:20.000 If I was working there, it wouldn't matter.

00:15:22.000 No, no, because I showed you.

00:15:24.000 I showed you not only 50 tons.

00:15:26.000 It's 20 tons.

00:15:28.000 Now, what we found out, first, how the Egyptians built the pyramid.

00:15:33.000 They make on the ground a square base.

00:15:37.000 Okay?

00:15:38.000 Okay.

00:15:40.000 And after that, they cut in the solid rock in the four sides.

00:15:46.000 You know, I'm going to tell you one thing.

00:15:50.000 Okay.

00:15:51.000 If you tell me, The pyramids built by giants.

00:15:55.000 Okay?

00:15:56.000 I'm saying, okay, come to the excavation.

00:16:00.000 All the skeleton that you discover are five to six feet high.

00:16:06.000 Nothing about giants.

00:16:07.000 Who's saying they were built by giants?

00:16:09.000 Some people say that.

00:16:10.000 Oh, okay.

00:16:11.000 The second.

00:16:12.000 I've heard aliens.

00:16:13.000 Okay, the second aliens.

00:16:14.000 If aliens build the pyramids, do they leave any?

00:16:19.000 Do they shit sometimes?

00:16:21.000 Aren't they going to shit?

00:16:22.000 Maybe aliens don't shit.

00:16:23.000 If they don't shit, are they going to leave something on the ground?

00:16:29.000 On the contrary, I give you the evidence, every evidence that I will tell you today of actual workers and what's happening.

00:16:37.000 Now, we come about building the pyramid.

00:16:40.000 All the stones I told you came from Giza Plateau.

00:16:43.000 We found out what happened first.

00:16:45.000 They cut in the sword rock.

00:16:47.000 Okay.

00:16:48.000 And they made the base.

00:16:50.000 Of the pyramid to be 28 feet on the solid rock.

00:16:56.000 No stones.

00:16:58.000 Do you get this?

00:16:59.000 Yes.

00:17:00.000 We have in Egypt 120 pyramids.

00:17:03.000 We don't have only Kofu pyramids that everyone is talking about.

00:17:07.000 You have 120 pyramids.

00:17:10.000 This is one of them.

00:17:11.000 But the reason...

00:17:12.000 That this pyramid is so accurate and strong because Giza Plateau is the only site in Egypt of the pyramids.

00:17:19.000 It's a part of the Mokattam formation.

00:17:22.000 It has three levels.

00:17:23.000 Level 1 and 2 are very bad stones.

00:17:26.000 But level 3 is the top quality of the stones.

00:17:31.000 The Egyptians used this stone to build the pyramid.

00:17:34.000 Then after they make the base of the pyramid to be 20 feet of stone, we found out 1,000 feet.

00:17:41.000 Away, we found out the quarry location.

00:17:45.000 So they only had to bring the stones 1,000 feet?

00:17:49.000 Only.

00:17:51.000 Only the stones that came from outside are the casing stones.

00:17:58.000 And I will talk about this later.

00:18:00.000 That came from Torah.

00:18:01.000 And the granite came from Aswan.

00:18:03.000 And the casing stones were the outside smooth surface.

00:18:05.000 Exactly.

00:18:06.000 Came from Torah.

00:18:07.000 Okay.

00:18:08.000 Then now, when we discovered the quarry location, And the base of the pyramid, we thought how they established the ramp.

00:18:18.000 You know the ramp?

00:18:19.000 Right.

00:18:19.000 To move?

00:18:20.000 To move the stones.

00:18:21.000 Right.

00:18:21.000 We found out if the Egyptians would make the ramp from the quarry to the base, it will never happen.

00:18:27.000 Because when you raise the base, you need to extend the ramp.

00:18:31.000 We found out, listen to this carefully, that the only way to have a pyramid ramp is to come to the south.

00:18:40.000 West corner of the main pyramid.

00:18:42.000 They built the ramp like this.

00:18:45.000 Okay.

00:18:46.000 And I excavated.

00:18:48.000 And these are photos in my book, Giza and the Pyramids.

00:18:53.000 I excavated from here to here.

00:18:56.000 When the Egyptians construct a ramp, when they finish building the pyramid, they demolish the ramp. 0.99

00:19:05.000 They cannot demolish all of it.

00:19:07.000 They have to leave something in the ground.

00:19:09.000 Okay.

00:19:09.000 Do you get this?

00:19:10.000 Yes.

00:19:11.000 I excavated from here to here.

00:19:14.000 I found in situ remains of the ram.

00:19:19.000 Are there photos of this?

00:19:20.000 Of course.

00:19:21.000 In my book.

00:19:22.000 Okay, let's find the photos of the equipment first.

00:19:26.000 Can't find anything?

00:19:29.000 It's in my book.

00:19:30.000 What did you find?

00:19:31.000 Well, nothing.

00:19:32.000 Nothing?

00:19:33.000 How is that not online?

00:19:35.000 That doesn't even make any sense.

00:19:36.000 It's in my book, Giza and the pyramids.

00:19:38.000 Maybe look up from his book.

00:19:42.000 Joe, these are the tombs of the pyramid builders. 0.76

00:19:44.000 Right there.

00:19:44.000 This is the excavation.

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00:21:48.000 And this is all what I discovered.

00:21:50.000 This is my discovery of everything.

00:21:53.000 Every piece of sand here tells us about the builder of the pyramid.

00:21:57.000 But let me continue this.

00:21:58.000 I will come to you now.

00:22:01.000 Let us, if you go to my book, you will find out that I found here that you write under flint tools.

00:22:12.000 Listen.

00:22:13.000 Then now, I will come.

00:22:15.000 The stones for building the pyramid came from the plateau.

00:22:18.000 The casing came from Torah.

00:22:20.000 Now we come to how many years Kuf ruled. 1.00

00:22:24.000 So there is one big discovery happened a few years ago.

00:22:27.000 Are these the tools?

00:22:29.000 No, no.

00:22:30.000 This is tools for artists.

00:22:33.000 The tools in our book, which is big, do you write tools?

00:22:39.000 And big flint tools.

00:22:41.000 Big ones.

00:22:44.000 Why is this not online?

00:22:47.000 We'll never put it online.

00:22:48.000 It's in my book.

00:22:49.000 Right, but I mean, wouldn't that be everywhere?

00:22:51.000 I mean, that's such a huge archaeological discovery.

00:22:53.000 It's not.

00:22:54.000 It's because it's everywhere.

00:22:55.000 It's not only in the workmen only.

00:22:57.000 It's in every site.

00:22:58.000 You have these tools in many sites.

00:23:01.000 Right, but why aren't these tools online?

00:23:03.000 That's all I'm asking.

00:23:04.000 I ask the people online, but they are in, remains in my book.

00:23:08.000 Are they in a museum somewhere?

00:23:10.000 There is some in the Cairo Museum, yes.

00:23:13.000 So there should be a photograph of them in the museum.

00:23:16.000 Okay.

00:23:17.000 What would Jamie look for?

00:23:20.000 But I don't know, I'm just like asking him.

00:23:22.000 Now I want to come to...

00:23:23.000 What museum would have them?

00:23:24.000 Cairo Museum.

00:23:25.000 Cairo Museum would have those tools?

00:23:26.000 Yes.

00:23:27.000 Okay.

00:23:27.000 Now, a few years ago, a major discovery happened for the first time.

00:23:35.000 It is...

00:23:36.000 The first time that we have written evidence about building the pyramid of Khufu.

00:23:42.000 When did this happen?

00:23:43.000 Three years ago.

00:23:43.000 Really?

00:23:44.000 It's called the Wadi al-Jarf papyri.

00:23:48.000 Oh.

00:23:49.000 Do you want to know what's in this papyri?

00:23:51.000 I do.

00:23:52.000 This papyri was found in Sinai, in a port that belongs to Khufu.

00:23:58.000 And inside this port, there was caves.

00:24:02.000 And inside the caves found remains of boat and this big papayri.

00:24:09.000 Large, huge.

00:24:10.000 There it is.

00:24:11.000 That's it, exactly.

00:24:12.000 Okay?

00:24:13.000 And what does this say?

00:24:14.000 Now.

00:24:16.000 First of all, how old is that?

00:24:18.000 4,600 years ago.

00:24:20.000 Isn't that amazing?

00:24:22.000 And listen.

00:24:23.000 You can find writing.

00:24:23.000 4,600.

00:24:25.000 So papyrus was made with animal skin, correct?

00:24:27.000 No.

00:24:28.000 Papyrus was of papyrus from the papyri.

00:24:32.000 Right.

00:24:32.000 What is it?

00:24:33.000 The papyri is just like leaves.

00:24:36.000 Okay.

00:24:36.000 Now, but listen to the papyri.

00:24:38.000 It is a diary of an overseer of the workman.

00:24:42.000 His name is Merrer.

00:24:44.000 M-E-R-E-R. 1.00

00:24:46.000 Okay?

00:24:48.000 Merrer is saying, I am sahaj and hieroglyphic.

00:24:53.000 Means inspector.

00:24:55.000 Under me, working 40 workmans.

00:24:59.000 I was hired by Khufu to work in his pyramid. 0.99

00:25:04.000 This is in hieroglyphic.

00:25:08.000 And he said, my immediate boss, his name is Diddy.

00:25:15.000 Like P. Diddy?

00:25:16.000 Diddy, yes.

00:25:18.000 Now, 20 years ago, in my excavation, West of the Great Pyramid of Khufu, I discovered 20 tombs.

00:25:30.000 Are these the tools?

00:25:31.000 No, no.

00:25:33.000 No, these are not the tools.

00:25:35.000 No, no.

00:25:36.000 The tools are really sharp type of big tools.

00:25:41.000 We found some of them.

00:25:43.000 What is that, Jamie, is looking at?

00:25:45.000 What are these...

00:25:46.000 This could be...

00:25:47.000 The tombs in the left is like them.

00:25:51.000 In the left here.

00:25:52.000 That those tools?

00:25:53.000 No, no, no, no.

00:25:54.000 More.

00:25:55.000 No doubt.

00:25:56.000 No.

00:25:57.000 Where?

00:25:58.000 You know, here, there is two.

00:26:00.000 There is more.

00:26:01.000 To the left.

00:26:04.000 To the left.

00:26:04.000 No.

00:26:05.000 Again.

00:26:06.000 What?

00:26:07.000 These two tools.

00:26:09.000 You mean up?

00:26:10.000 Down.

00:26:11.000 What are you talking about?

00:26:12.000 The second one.

00:26:13.000 After this one.

00:26:13.000 That's it.

00:26:14.000 Up.

00:26:15.000 That's it.

00:26:16.000 And this one.

00:26:17.000 Oh, those.

00:26:18.000 Those.

00:26:18.000 Yeah.

00:26:19.000 But don't those look exactly like the other photograph we just had?

00:26:22.000 Those up there.

00:26:23.000 That looks like the heads of these things.

00:26:24.000 But this was the smalls.

00:26:26.000 I'm talking about big ones.

00:26:27.000 So that's...

00:26:28.000 These are tools for making statues and things like that, but not cutting the stones.

00:26:34.000 Oh, I see.

00:26:34.000 So these are the same kind of tools, though, with the same kind of materials.

00:26:39.000 But let me talk about the papyri again.

00:26:43.000 Okay.

00:26:43.000 Because many people don't know about this.

00:26:45.000 Okay.

00:26:46.000 The mayor said...

00:26:47.000 My boss's name is Didi.

00:26:49.000 20 years ago, I excavated west of the Great Pyramid of Khufu.

00:26:54.000 I found 20 tombs, beautiful ones.

00:26:56.000 I published all of them, except one small tomb I said is not important.

00:27:02.000 Three years ago, I found this is the tomb of Didi, the person that he was the boss of Merer.

00:27:10.000 And I published this tomb.

00:27:11.000 You can find this tomb online now.

00:27:14.000 It's called Didi's Tomb.

00:27:15.000 By Zahi Hawass, west of the Great Pyramid of Kufu.

00:27:19.000 Now, listen, Joe.

00:27:22.000 What Miller said, I took my workman.

00:27:27.000 This is hieroglyphic.

00:27:28.000 We went to Torah to cut the white, fine limestone.

00:27:34.000 This sentence means that the pyramid was finished.

00:27:38.000 And Miller went to bring the stones for the casing.

00:27:43.000 And he said, I'm not alone.

00:27:45.000 There is many other gangs are cutting the stones.

00:27:48.000 And Torah is in north and south. 0.81

00:27:52.000 And he said, I divided my gangs to three gangs.

00:27:57.000 One gang to cut the stones.

00:28:01.000 And one gang is smoothing the stones.

00:28:04.000 And smoothing the stones with the right tools to face the stones for the casing.

00:28:12.000 And after that he said, Group moving the stones in wooden sledges.

00:28:20.000 This is all in the papyri.

00:28:22.000 In the papyri.

00:28:23.000 To a cargo boat.

00:28:25.000 What happened in the Old Kingdom?

00:28:28.000 We have evidence that the river Nile, the Egyptian cut to the west of this river Nile, another Nile to be near the pyramid.

00:28:40.000 From this Nile, they cut a canal.

00:28:45.000 At the end of the canal, there is a harbor in front of every pyramid.

00:28:50.000 I discovered in my excavation, in front of Khufu pyramid, there is a village called Naslit Samman.

00:28:59.000 In this village, the people were building houses.

00:29:04.000 Underneath the houses, we found basalt walls.

00:29:12.000 I stopped.

00:29:13.000 The construction of the houses.

00:29:15.000 And I excavated the whole area.

00:29:16.000 I found this is the harbor of Kufu.

00:29:19.000 And I published this in an article.

00:29:23.000 And I excavated in front of the Sphinx Temple.

00:29:26.000 And I found the harbor of Kufrin.

00:29:28.000 And it's published.

00:29:30.000 Now, the reason for the canal and the harbor?

00:29:34.000 To bring non-local stones.

00:29:37.000 Granite from Aswan.

00:29:40.000 Alabaster from Middle Egypt.

00:29:41.000 Diorite from Nubia.

00:29:48.000 Basalt from Fayyum.

00:29:50.000 The Egyptians had everything.

00:29:55.000 So they essentially cut a second canal.

00:29:58.000 They cut a canal just so they could move the stones to where they wanted them.

00:30:01.000 And they discovered all of this.

00:30:03.000 And this is published.

00:30:06.000 And so this is all the casing stones.

00:30:09.000 Exactly.

00:30:10.000 Right.

00:30:10.000 Is it possible that the casing stones were put on later?

00:30:14.000 No, after you finish building the pyramid.

00:30:16.000 Right.

00:30:16.000 There is two important things when they finish building the pyramid.

00:30:19.000 I discovered in a site called Abusir, I discovered two scenes.

00:30:24.000 One scene where it came in dragging a capstone.

00:30:28.000 Above the capstone is a hieroglyphic word called jaim.

00:30:32.000 So where is this?

00:30:33.000 What is this, sir?

00:30:35.000 This is in hieroglyphs?

00:30:36.000 Yes.

00:30:36.000 Dragging the capstone?

00:30:37.000 Yes.

00:30:37.000 Can we see this?

00:30:39.000 Find out.

00:30:40.000 I don't know if it's internet or not.

00:30:41.000 What would Jamie look for?

00:30:43.000 Look for Zahi Hawa's discovery in Abu Sir. 0.69

00:30:50.000 How much do you think was lost during the burning of the Library of Alexandria?

00:30:54.000 A lot, of course.

00:30:55.000 Everything, right?

00:30:56.000 Everything.

00:30:56.000 And this is why what I'm telling you, I have been excavating in Giza, Zhou, for the last 57 years.

00:31:05.000 I know every piece of sand in the site.

00:31:08.000 And I want to tell you one thing also.

00:31:09.000 Okay.

00:31:10.000 I am the only Egyptologist who have an open mind.

00:31:14.000 Really?

00:31:15.000 You're the only one?

00:31:17.000 Yes.

00:31:17.000 I always look at what the public say.

00:31:20.000 And I will tell you about this later.

00:31:21.000 I will tell you what I found in the pyramid.

00:31:23.000 But let me finish this story, and after that I will come back to tell you how I look at what people say, and I try to investigate this.

00:31:35.000 Now, Miller said, I put the stones on a cargo boat, and we came in the boat to Giza Plateau.

00:31:45.000 The workman took the stones up to the pyramid.

00:31:48.000 We slept overnight in Giza.

00:31:50.000 I got up early in the morning with my workman, went to Torah.

00:31:54.000 He made many times talking about that.

00:31:56.000 Then he said, I went to Sinai to bring copper and turquoise.

00:32:04.000 But he said in Sinai, our big boss, his name is Ankaf.

00:32:09.000 We know from text that the architect who designed the Great Pyramid, he was Khufu's cousin.

00:32:16.000 His name was Hem Iono.

00:32:19.000 Then actually, it seems now that Hem Iyuno died, and Ankaf completed the Great Pyramid and built the second pyramid of his son, Kephren. 0.77

00:32:29.000 Then he said, I'm working in year 27 of Khufu's reign.

00:32:36.000 He mentioned that Khufu was alive in year 27. How long do you think he reigned for?

00:32:42.000 28 years.

00:32:43.000 I published an article.

00:32:45.000 I published an article about...

00:32:47.000 You can find this article.

00:32:48.000 Why was the age 23, 23 years, why was that attributed to them?

00:32:53.000 No.

00:32:54.000 This is a good question.

00:32:55.000 This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.

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00:34:22.000 A shiptolicist has a problem when they count the name of the king.

00:34:27.000 Because when the ancient Egyptians counted the cattle, they counted the reign of the king.

00:34:33.000 Sometimes they count the cattle every year.

00:34:35.000 Sometimes they counted the cattle every two years.

00:34:38.000 Then we make mistakes.

00:34:39.000 But now we have year 27 of Kofu's reign.

00:34:43.000 And we have on the second boat pit that the Japanese are restoring now, we know when the king die, his son bury him. 0.96

00:34:52.000 Then Kofu's son...

00:34:54.000 His name is Jerry Frey, who did not respect his father, and I will tell you why.

00:35:00.000 He buried his father in year 28. Then we know now, for sure, that Khufu ruled for 28 years. 0.66

00:35:12.000 Now, Miller said something that made me very happy.

00:35:20.000 Because 25 years ago, I wrote an article.

00:35:24.000 To say that Memphis was not the capital of Egypt.

00:35:29.000 I said that the king ruled Egypt from the pyramid.

00:35:34.000 If the pyramid is in Abrawash, the king ruled Egypt from Abrawash.

00:35:39.000 If the pyramid is in Giza, Giza, Abu Sir, Saqqara.

00:35:44.000 Then Merer said something.

00:35:46.000 Many people did not believe me when I wrote this article.

00:35:50.000 But Merer said, Khufu lived in his palace at Giza.

00:35:57.000 If he lived in a palace at Giza, means with the royal family, the public, and the government.

00:36:05.000 And he said that the area that Khufu lived in it, in the pyramid called Ankh Khufu, in hieroglyphic, means the Khufu lives.

00:36:13.000 This is the name of the city, that Khufu lived in it.

00:36:17.000 And Miller said, we came to Giza in an area.

00:36:22.000 In a hieroglyphic called Rasheh.

00:36:24.000 And Rasheh means literally mouth of the lake.

00:36:29.000 This could be the entrance of Giza Plateau.

00:36:33.000 But what's really strange, he said, it took me almost one day for me and my workmen to come to the pyramid.

00:36:43.000 Why?

00:36:44.000 Because Giza entrance was busy.

00:36:47.000 Every stone coming in has to be counted.

00:36:51.000 Every workman has to sign the first letter of his name.

00:36:54.000 And this is why if you go today to the port of New York, it will take you five hours to enter because it's busy.

00:37:01.000 And this is what happened at Giza Plateau.

00:37:04.000 This papyri, in my opinion, is really one of the most important discoveries that tells us for the first time about building the pyramid.

00:37:13.000 And now we come to the reign of Khufu, 28 years, and now the stones of the Great Pyramid. 0.82

00:37:20.000 I looked everywhere to find out how they counted the stones that people said it's 2 million and 300 Saza blocks.

00:37:32.000 I found no evidence.

00:37:35.000 It's only when the Arabs came. 1.00

00:37:37.000 You know all the theories that the New Age people say now, it came from the Arabs.

00:37:44.000 When the Arabs came and they entered the pyramid, they said all these nonsense stories about the pyramids. 1.00

00:37:51.000 Then, I never found any place to tell me how they cut the stones.

00:37:57.000 But now, we have evidence that the base of the pyramid is 20 feet high of solid rock, no stones.

00:38:06.000 In 2010, I brought a team, scientists.

00:38:10.000 From every field.

00:38:11.000 And we recounted the stones based on the new evidence, and we found out that the stones of the pyramid are only no more than one million.

00:38:22.000 And the average height of the limestone is half a ton to two and a half tons.

00:38:28.000 So the base of the pyramid is 20 feet high carved into solid stone.

00:38:34.000 Yes.

00:38:35.000 And then the other rocks were placed on top of it.

00:38:38.000 No, I want to come to when you told me about this capstone, because we did not complete the capstone.

00:38:45.000 Right, but let's start off with this, though.

00:38:47.000 The base is 20 feet high, and then the estimation was 2,300,000, but you think it's far less than that?

00:38:56.000 Because of the new discovery that we found that the base is made of the solid rock.

00:39:03.000 So before they thought the base was individual stones.

00:39:06.000 Yes.

00:39:07.000 Okay.

00:39:07.000 So now that you know that the base is solid rock, that removes 1,300,000 stones that were necessary.

00:39:13.000 Yes.

00:39:13.000 Got it.

00:39:14.000 So they carved this base knowing they were going to put a pyramid on top of it.

00:39:18.000 And what about the subterranean chambers?

00:39:22.000 Every king in Egypt is buried underneath the pyramid.

00:39:26.000 Every king, except Khufu. 0.99

00:39:28.000 And his father, Senefro.

00:39:30.000 The only two kings that are not buried underneath is Khufu and his father.

00:39:36.000 If you look at the one chamber underneath, it was cut and built.

00:39:42.000 If you go down, it's left unfinished.

00:39:47.000 Left unfinished in what way?

00:39:49.000 It was planned to cut it, but they did not complete it.

00:39:54.000 You can see when you go down that the barrier chamber is not finished.

00:39:58.000 Why?

00:40:00.000 Why?

00:40:00.000 Because I found out in our research.

00:40:04.000 Every king is Horus on earth. 0.96

00:40:07.000 When the king die, he become the sun god.

00:40:11.000 Okay?

00:40:12.000 Okay.

00:40:13.000 Khufu, in year five, he said, I am the sun god.

00:40:20.000 And he abandoned the construction of the first barrier chamber, and he built his chamber within the pyramid because he's a god.

00:40:30.000 And that's the Queen's Chamber, correct?

00:40:32.000 No.

00:40:32.000 The first one.

00:40:33.000 I'm going to come to these chambers later.

00:40:36.000 Okay.

00:40:37.000 And the second evidence that he called his pyramid Akhet Khufu means the horizon of Khufu.

00:40:46.000 And the only one in the horizon is the Sangat.

00:40:50.000 And the third evidence is something that only occurred at Giza.

00:40:59.000 The Sphinx.

00:41:00.000 And its temple.

00:41:02.000 I found that the Sphinx represent Kephrin, the son of Kufu, giving offering with his two paws to his father, the sun god, Kufu, who rise and sits in this temple, the first sun temple.

00:41:18.000 And this is why Kufu's pyramid is unique among the 120 pyramids.

00:41:25.000 And I will tell you what I discovered inside the pyramid now.

00:41:29.000 Okay.

00:41:29.000 Now, before I tell you about what I discovered, I have to complete the scene that I told you, that I found Workman dragging a capstone.

00:41:43.000 You remember?

00:41:45.000 You asked me that.

00:41:46.000 You stopped doing that.

00:41:47.000 Above the capstone, there is a hieroglyphic word called Jaim.

00:41:51.000 And Jaim means white and yellow gold.

00:41:56.000 A second scene I found, Ladies dancing.

00:42:01.000 And they call them the khener. 0.93

00:42:03.000 And the khener are the dance troupe of the king. 0.81

00:42:07.000 My interpretation of these two scenes.

00:42:10.000 When the pyramid was finished, the king asked the workmen to put the capstone in the top of the pyramid.

00:42:17.000 When they put the capstone in the top of the pyramid, caged with gold, the whole country danced.

00:42:27.000 And sing.

00:42:28.000 Because the king became a god.

00:42:31.000 That's what I call the national project of the whole nation.

00:42:34.000 The three millions who lived in Egypt in the time of the old kingdom, all of them participated in building the pyramid to make the king as a god.

00:42:44.000 This is your theory.

00:42:45.000 Not a theory.

00:42:46.000 No?

00:42:47.000 It's fact.

00:42:49.000 It is a fact.

00:42:50.000 The pyramid.

00:42:51.000 What's the national project?

00:42:52.000 No, that's not what I mean.

00:42:53.000 I mean, it's your theory that the capstone was put on and...

00:42:57.000 It's not a theory.

00:42:58.000 It's based on evidence.

00:42:59.000 I found the scenes.

00:43:01.000 The papyri?

00:43:02.000 No, the papyri is something else.

00:43:05.000 What are the scenes?

00:43:06.000 It's blocks.

00:43:07.000 Limestone blocks.

00:43:09.000 One scene working and dragging a capstone with the word jime.

00:43:13.000 Is this written in limestone blocks?

00:43:15.000 Is that what you're saying?

00:43:16.000 No, it shows the working and dragging a stone.

00:43:19.000 Shows it where?

00:43:20.000 In the stone that I discovered.

00:43:22.000 So it's carved into the stone.

00:43:24.000 Exactly.

00:43:25.000 And the word Jaim in hieroglyphic above that.

00:43:27.000 Where is that at?

00:43:29.000 It's in Abu Sir.

00:43:30.000 I found it.

00:43:30.000 But are there photographs online?

00:43:32.000 Yes, in my book.

00:43:34.000 I don't go online.

00:43:36.000 Why do I have to go online?

00:43:37.000 I go to my book.

00:43:38.000 No, I understand.

00:43:39.000 But for everybody else that doesn't have immediate access to your book.

00:43:43.000 Did you find them online?

00:43:46.000 It's called the Abu Sir blocks.

00:43:49.000 Abu Sir.

00:43:51.000 How do you think they got the stones from the King's Chamber 500 miles away and put them 120 feet up in the ceiling?

00:44:02.000 I told you, if you come today and see how the workmen move 20 tons of granite, you'll understand.

00:44:10.000 Workers today?

00:44:11.000 Yes, today like yesterday.

00:44:13.000 The same workman.

00:44:14.000 Okay.

00:44:15.000 Right, but...

00:44:15.000 Now, Joe, listen, listen, listen, listen.

00:44:18.000 If they're doing it today, they have access to modern machinery, right?

00:44:21.000 If you don't...

00:44:21.000 No!

00:44:22.000 They don't?

00:44:22.000 No!

00:44:23.000 It's everything based on the idea of the national project.

00:44:27.000 They want to make this for the king.

00:44:28.000 I understand the national project, but what I don't understand is the physics involved in moving 80-ton blocks 500 miles through the mountains.

00:44:36.000 If you don't believe...

00:44:38.000 On this.

00:44:39.000 It's not that I don't believe.

00:44:40.000 I just want to know.

00:44:41.000 Hold on.

00:44:43.000 It's not that I don't believe.

00:44:45.000 I want you to explain to me how you think they did it.

00:44:48.000 I explained to you.

00:44:49.000 From 500 miles away, 50 to 80 ton blocks.

00:44:53.000 This comes through the Nile.

00:44:55.000 You can bring all the stones.

00:44:57.000 Right, but the quarries are in the mountains, right?

00:44:59.000 No, the quarries, the granite quarries in Aswan, and we have cutting of the obelisks, and cutting of the stones, and cutting of everything in the site.

00:45:07.000 And they brought, when the flood comes in July, they bring boats through the flood, they bring all the stones.

00:45:14.000 So they plan things for the floods, and then they would figure out some sort of a raft system to get them on, and then move them that way.

00:45:25.000 We now do not believe that this cannot be moved by a human being, okay?

00:45:34.000 But on the other side, what I can tell you, inside, above these blocks, written the names of the gangs who built the pyramid, above the king's chamber.

00:45:46.000 One of the names, Friendless of Khufu, I did a 3D few months ago.

00:45:52.000 And we recorded in the five chambers that has these huge blocks.

00:45:56.000 We found two more names of the gangs.

00:45:59.000 One name called those who are connected with the goodness wadjet.

00:46:04.000 And written year 13 of Kofu's reign on the third chamber.

00:46:10.000 I took Mr. Beast with me two months ago.

00:46:13.000 I took him and I showed him how these blocks, they were written.

00:46:19.000 By the workmen before they move these stones.

00:46:23.000 And in the fourth room, we have the good God.

00:46:28.000 Another name was year 13 of Kofuzray.

00:46:32.000 This is when they move the stones.

00:46:33.000 So I understand what you're saying.

00:46:34.000 So you're saying that they took these stones, they waited for the flood season, they got these stones on rafts, they moved them down the river, they got them to the site.

00:46:42.000 How did they get them 120 feet in the air?

00:46:47.000 You know...

00:46:48.000 Again, this is the most important thing.

00:46:50.000 This is the national project.

00:46:52.000 Oh, I understand.

00:46:52.000 It was very valuable to them.

00:46:54.000 I just wondered what technology was used.

00:46:56.000 No technology.

00:46:57.000 Well, technology is tools.

00:46:59.000 Technology is levers.

00:47:00.000 Whatever they had at the time was their current technology.

00:47:04.000 The huge wooden slidges.

00:47:07.000 Huge wooden sledges.

00:47:08.000 This is the only way that today we move huge stones.

00:47:13.000 This is how my workmen moved 20 tons of sarcophagus in a tomb.

00:47:19.000 How far did they move it?

00:47:22.000 They moved it just a few feet away.

00:47:24.000 But we have scenes of how workmen move 60 tons of statue.

00:47:33.000 How they move with their sledges.

00:47:35.000 Right.

00:47:35.000 And they draw it.

00:47:36.000 Yeah, I've seen those scenes.

00:47:37.000 Yeah.

00:47:38.000 Then we have all this type of scene that the Egyptians show that. 0.82

00:47:41.000 Again, this is the national project.

00:47:44.000 Do you think they wet the ground?

00:47:46.000 Do you think that they did something like that to make the ground more slick so they can pull it?

00:47:50.000 They do.

00:47:50.000 Yes.

00:47:51.000 And then are they using sleds?

00:47:55.000 Sledges.

00:47:57.000 Wooden sleds.

00:47:58.000 And then you just slowly but surely pulled it into position.

00:48:02.000 We have this in the tombs, this wooden slidges.

00:48:05.000 Yeah.

00:48:06.000 But let me take you now to what I began to reveal, the secret of Gufu pyramid.

00:48:14.000 Okay.

00:48:16.000 As I told you again, I always listen to what people say, and I try to prove them if they are right or not.

00:48:24.000 I was interested.

00:48:27.000 In the Great Pyramid most of my life because I was an inspector of the pyramid, director of...

00:48:33.000 I spent most of my life there.

00:48:35.000 Then I closed this pyramid for a year to stop humidity.

00:48:41.000 To stop humidity?

00:48:43.000 Because every person...

00:48:44.000 All the breathing?

00:48:45.000 Exactly.

00:48:46.000 Enter and set the pyramid, gives about 20 grams of water.

00:48:49.000 And this water becomes salt.

00:48:52.000 Then mechanically, I removed the salt.

00:48:56.000 You got to clean the walls.

00:48:57.000 Exactly.

00:48:58.000 And after that, I thought, how can I make a ventilation system of the pyramid?

00:49:05.000 In the king chamber and the queen chamber, you have this tunnel.

00:49:13.000 20 per 20 centimeter only.

00:49:17.000 Small tunnel.

00:49:18.000 Right.

00:49:19.000 Then I thought I should clean these tunnels.

00:49:23.000 Then I can make a ventilation system.

00:49:25.000 I had no idea of what I'm going to find out.

00:49:28.000 What'd you find out?

00:49:30.000 Then I hired a German robot.

00:49:34.000 And we took the German robot to the king chamber. 0.85

00:49:39.000 We are sitting in the king chamber with a TV screen.

00:49:43.000 And the robot entered in the shaft.

00:49:47.000 We found out that the interior of the pyramid...

00:49:52.000 The stones were interplugged.

00:49:55.000 And this is why when the Arabs came to Egypt, and they said man fears time, and time fears pyramids.

00:50:04.000 Then we found out that this shaft went outside.

00:50:08.000 Then we put a fan here, and the fan sucked the air and pushed it in the tunnel, and we made a ventilation system in the pyramids.

00:50:22.000 Discovery of these stones, what was unusual about the way they were placed?

00:50:26.000 What stones?

00:50:27.000 You said they interlocked?

00:50:29.000 Interblocked.

00:50:30.000 Interblocked?

00:50:30.000 Yes.

00:50:31.000 What do you mean by that?

00:50:33.000 Oh.

00:50:34.000 Like fingers.

00:50:35.000 Okay.

00:50:36.000 So there's like different levels and they all slid in together?

00:50:40.000 How they put the stones with each other.

00:50:43.000 Okay.

00:50:44.000 But now the most important, that I took the robot to the secondary chamber.

00:50:49.000 Now we know.

00:50:50.000 That the tunnel in the first chamber are open outside.

00:50:53.000 Open outside.

00:50:54.000 I said, why?

00:50:56.000 We have these tunnels in the second chamber.

00:50:58.000 They call it wrong in the queen chamber.

00:51:00.000 Right.

00:51:01.000 Then we took the robot to the northern tunnel of the queen chamber.

00:51:07.000 After 60 feet, the robot stopped because the tunnel was bending to the left and the German robot could not bend.

00:51:18.000 Then we took the robot to the south tunnel.

00:51:22.000 The robot went for 200 feet, stopped in front of a door with two cover handles.

00:51:32.000 That was the first discovery.

00:51:35.000 Now, I began to think, how can I find out what's behind this door?

00:51:43.000 In 2002, I was chosen By the National Geographic as explorer in residence.

00:51:53.000 We're nine explorers.

00:51:56.000 With them, with us, was Bill Billard, who found Titanic.

00:52:01.000 Each explorer had a dream.

00:52:03.000 I told them, I need you to design a robot for me.

00:52:06.000 I want to find out what's behind this door.

00:52:09.000 And they did make a robot, and they called it Pyramid Rover.

00:52:17.000 We took the Pyramid Rover, and the robot went in the south tunnel, and the robot had a drilling on his hand.

00:52:26.000 The robot opened one hole, one centimeter and one millimeter, and sent an optic camera through this hole.

00:52:38.000 We found, after 21 centimeters of this door, a second one.

00:52:45.000 And the second one, Has an iggy shaped like that.

00:52:50.000 As if it's hiding something.

00:52:53.000 Then after that, we went to the northern tunnel that was bending.

00:52:58.000 We found out it's bending north and south for 24 feet.

00:53:04.000 And the reason for the bending was to avoid the Grand Gallery.

00:53:08.000 At 200 feet, the robot stopped in front of a third door.

00:53:14.000 With two cover handles in the same distance of this one.

00:53:18.000 And these doors are very small, right?

00:53:21.000 Very small, 20 by 20 centimeters.

00:53:22.000 Now, I spent most of my life from 2002 until 2024, last year.

00:53:39.000 I found a team from England.

00:53:43.000 And we worked it last year for three seasons.

00:53:47.000 Number one, I found out above the King of Chamber, a big void.

00:53:59.000 I'm sorry, above the Grand Gallery.

00:54:03.000 This void, the size of two trucks.

00:54:09.000 Now, the second void.

00:54:13.000 Behind the northern tunnel, another small void.

00:54:18.000 Inside this void, we can see hieroglyphic inscriptions.

00:54:23.000 Really?

00:54:24.000 So those are the only hieroglyphics on the Great Pyramid, right?

00:54:27.000 And I can show you the footage.

00:54:30.000 Do you have the footage here?

00:54:31.000 If you can come to my lecture.

00:54:33.000 Oh, come on, man.

00:54:34.000 In Houston.

00:54:35.000 What about right here, right now?

00:54:37.000 I can send it to you.

00:54:38.000 Where do you have it?

00:54:40.000 Do you have it on you?

00:54:41.000 In my computer.

00:54:42.000 Where's your computer?

00:54:43.000 In Las Vegas.

00:54:45.000 Oh, well, fuck.

00:54:46.000 But I can send it to you.

00:54:48.000 Yeah, but I want to show it on the show.

00:54:50.000 Show it in the show.

00:54:51.000 I can send it tomorrow.

00:54:52.000 Okay, you can send it tomorrow?

00:54:54.000 Yes.

00:54:54.000 Okay, we'll splice it in, folks.

00:54:56.000 Then tomorrow I will send it to you.

00:54:58.000 Please do.

00:54:59.000 Okay, I'll give you my email.

00:55:00.000 I'll give you Jamie's email.

00:55:01.000 Yeah, give me...

00:55:03.000 But you should come and...

00:55:04.000 Can you come and introduce me here in Houston?

00:55:07.000 Excuse me?

00:55:08.000 Can I introduce you in Houston?

00:55:09.000 No, I cannot.

00:55:10.000 Why?

00:55:10.000 Because I'm very busy.

00:55:11.000 Okay, fine.

00:55:12.000 If I had known in advance, I could have.

00:55:14.000 Oh, fine, fine, fine.

00:55:16.000 Unfortunately, I don't have any free time, Zahi.

00:55:19.000 Zahi.

00:55:21.000 Not Zahi. 1.00

00:55:22.000 Zahi.

00:55:22.000 Then now...

00:55:24.000 Mr. Hawass.

00:55:25.000 Then now, what we are going to do?

00:55:27.000 So this is the only pyramid, can I ask you, though?

00:55:29.000 This...

00:55:31.000 Hieroglyphics inside this chamber that you've discovered, these are the only hieroglyphics in the Great Pyramid, is that correct?

00:55:37.000 No, there is in the five chambers, I told you.

00:55:39.000 Oh, in the other chambers?

00:55:40.000 I told you, in the five chambers, now we have five names of the Genghis who built the pyramids.

00:55:45.000 These are all recent discoveries?

00:55:47.000 Yes.

00:55:48.000 Within how long?

00:55:49.000 How recent?

00:55:51.000 This void as last year, 2024.

00:55:56.000 The hieroglyphic discovery or three months ago.

00:56:00.000 So all this is very...

00:56:01.000 Isn't that fascinating that you've been studying the pyramids for so long and you're still finding things?

00:56:06.000 But listen to me what I'm going to do.

00:56:07.000 What are you going to do?

00:56:08.000 There's a friend of mine.

00:56:11.000 His name is Leslie Greif.

00:56:14.000 Leslie is from Hollywood.

00:56:16.000 He did with me many live TV shows and he did with me Chasing Mummies. 0.84

00:56:22.000 And Leslie now is working to find a network. 1.00

00:56:26.000 To come, we need to do this program live.

00:56:31.000 I want to show the whole world what I discovered inside the pyramid.

00:56:36.000 That we are not hiding anything.

00:56:37.000 I want to show them the hieroglyphic.

00:56:39.000 Why do you always feel like you're in battle with people?

00:56:42.000 Because they attack me.

00:56:45.000 I'm not in a battle with people.

00:56:47.000 They are in a battle with me.

00:56:49.000 I understand that.

00:56:50.000 But I'm giving you an opportunity to just lay things out.

00:56:53.000 You don't have to argue with people that aren't here. 0.91

00:56:56.000 I'm not arguing.

00:56:56.000 Fuck those people.

00:56:57.000 I'm not arguing.

00:56:58.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:57:01.000 I'm just fascinated by the discovery itself.

00:57:03.000 So what does it look like, these hieroglyphs?

00:57:05.000 I know you can read hieroglyphs, right?

00:57:07.000 Is that science?

00:57:08.000 You can read that stuff.

00:57:09.000 Yes, but the signs are not clear.

00:57:12.000 It's not clear?

00:57:13.000 No.

00:57:13.000 We need to do more investigation in September.

00:57:17.000 Is it a difficulty in seeing inside there?

00:57:19.000 You know, because when the Egyptians write inside... 0.86

00:57:24.000 The Five Chambers, for example, they don't write hieroglyphic.

00:57:28.000 They write a cursive hieroglyphic.

00:57:30.000 It's called hieratic.

00:57:33.000 And this hieratic, Joe, it's very difficult to read from outside.

00:57:38.000 What does that look like?

00:57:39.000 It's a cursive of the hieroglyphic.

00:57:42.000 Let me see what that looks like, Jim.

00:57:44.000 That's fascinating.

00:57:45.000 No, this is hieroglyphic.

00:57:46.000 This is hieroglyphic.

00:57:47.000 That's hieratic.

00:57:47.000 We need to talk about hieratic.

00:57:48.000 On the right, on the right-hand side, it says hieratic.

00:57:50.000 Exactly.

00:57:51.000 Look at the one on the right, this hieratic.

00:57:53.000 Okay.

00:57:53.000 Then it's very difficult.

00:57:54.000 God, that's so beautiful.

00:57:55.000 Yeah.

00:57:56.000 What a beautiful language.

00:57:57.000 Like, the way it's written, it looks like art.

00:58:00.000 Then, Joe, what we're going to do before the end of this year, we are going to show what's inside this void's life.

00:58:12.000 Can you keep that up, Jamie?

00:58:14.000 These symbols that look like...

00:58:17.000 Make that larger, please.

00:58:19.000 These symbols to the far left that were right below Jamie's cursor.

00:58:22.000 Right there.

00:58:23.000 Like, what are those supposed to be?

00:58:24.000 They are signs.

00:58:26.000 But what does it mean?

00:58:27.000 Look, this...

00:58:28.000 It looks like a device or something.

00:58:30.000 The one down means sish for a determinant of a scribe. 0.85

00:58:36.000 What is the one that his cursive...

00:58:37.000 It looks like a stop sign.

00:58:39.000 It's for a scribe.

00:58:40.000 A scribe.

00:58:41.000 Yeah.

00:58:41.000 What does it mean?

00:58:42.000 Scribe.

00:58:43.000 Sish.

00:58:43.000 It means a scribe.

00:58:44.000 Sish.

00:58:44.000 Okay.

00:58:45.000 I understand.

00:58:46.000 So, and then the other one on the hieratic, that's the cursive version of that.

00:58:52.000 I'm not that expert in hieratic.

00:58:54.000 Okay.

00:58:55.000 Because hieratic is very cursive.

00:58:57.000 I understand, but I think this is showing that, right?

00:59:00.000 I know.

00:59:00.000 But we, if you look at the signs in the five chambers that I will send it to you tomorrow, it's very difficult to read.

00:59:08.000 But you can see they are hieratic, cursive signs.

00:59:12.000 Got it.

00:59:13.000 But the most important that we are going to show this life.

00:59:16.000 Oh, wow.

00:59:17.000 Okay, so people don't even know, and you're going to show all this stuff live.

00:59:20.000 We will do it live.

00:59:21.000 But the other thing, we have another team called ScanPyramids team.

00:59:27.000 They are scientists from Japan, France, and Egypt.

00:59:33.000 I am the scientific director who really, if they discover something, they come to me.

00:59:40.000 I have to discuss it with them.

00:59:43.000 And they found.

00:59:45.000 You know, The pyramid.

00:59:47.000 Yeah.

00:59:48.000 You have the entrance that the people use now is the entrance that the Arabs opened. 0.60

00:59:54.000 That's in the north face, correct?

00:59:55.000 Exactly.

00:59:56.000 Above that is the main chamber.

00:59:59.000 Okay.

01:00:01.000 The team are using very sophisticated techniques like ultrasound, infrared.

01:00:10.000 With these techniques, you do not need any more to drill.

01:00:16.000 You can really see what's behind the door.

01:00:19.000 And this is really what I'm using right now.

01:00:21.000 Then they came to me and they said, behind the main entrance of the pyramid, there is a corridor.

01:00:30.000 And they showed to me this corridor clear in the five techniques that they're using.

01:00:39.000 But they told me why I have to see it.

01:00:42.000 Let's go up there.

01:00:43.000 We went up there.

01:00:45.000 And they sent an optic camera through the stones.

01:00:53.000 And they found, I could look at the corridor, 30 feet long, 8 feet wide, topped with chevron shape.

01:01:05.000 I think you can see that in the internet, the corridor behind the main entrance of the pyramid.

01:01:12.000 Can you get it?

01:01:13.000 It's in the internet, I'm sure.

01:01:16.000 This void above the Grand Gallery?

01:01:19.000 The size of two trucks.

01:01:21.000 What do you think that is?

01:01:22.000 I have no idea.

01:01:24.000 Fascinating.

01:01:24.000 I'm just telling you what I found.

01:01:28.000 This was the Great Pyramid.

01:01:30.000 I did more work on the Third Pyramid with the same techniques and the Second Pyramid.

01:01:34.000 This is the void.

01:01:35.000 Can you see it?

01:01:36.000 Wow, that's incredible.

01:01:38.000 And bring the other big void above the Grand Gallery.

01:01:42.000 I think you'll see it also.

01:01:45.000 So find the void above the Grand Gallery, Jamie.

01:01:50.000 So it's two trucks?

01:01:52.000 The size of two trucks.

01:01:54.000 The size of two semi-trucks.

01:01:56.000 And do you have any idea, like, what the inside...

01:02:00.000 I will tell you about my theory.

01:02:02.000 Please do.

01:02:04.000 I think it's here.

01:02:06.000 So that's the void.

01:02:07.000 Yeah.

01:02:09.000 And it's in that direction, so it's at a slope?

01:02:12.000 It's above the Grand Gallery.

01:02:14.000 That's it.

01:02:15.000 That's it.

01:02:15.000 Yeah.

01:02:16.000 The Scan Pyramid Project.

01:02:17.000 Now, I tell you my theory.

01:02:21.000 Please do.

01:02:23.000 We have a story written in hieroglyphic, but not at the time of Khufu.

01:02:28.000 It's after Khufu. 1.00

01:02:30.000 The story, it's written in a papyri.

01:02:33.000 It's called Khufu and the Magician.

01:02:36.000 It said that Khufu was staying in his palace, and he was very upset.

01:02:43.000 He was not happy.

01:02:45.000 And his son came to him.

01:02:46.000 Your Majesty, why are you unhappy?

01:02:50.000 He said, I'm searching for the secret of the God of wisdom.

01:02:55.000 Then I can design my barrier chamber in the pyramid. 0.64

01:03:00.000 Then his son told him, I know a magician.

01:03:04.000 His name is Jedi.

01:03:06.000 He knows how to cut the head of a man off and put it back.

01:03:12.000 And he knows the secret of the gattoth, the god of wisdom.

01:03:16.000 He knows how to cut the head of a man off and put it back, but is the guy still alive?

01:03:20.000 Is that what he's saying?

01:03:21.000 No, this is what the son is telling his father.

01:03:25.000 I understand that.

01:03:26.000 That Jedi can do that. 0.99

01:03:27.000 A lot of people can cut a guy's head off and put it back.

01:03:28.000 But listen to the story.

01:03:30.000 This is the story.

01:03:31.000 Okay.

01:03:32.000 The king told his son, bring this to me.

01:03:35.000 Okay.

01:03:36.000 They describe him as 100 years old, and he drink 1,000 beers, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:03:42.000 Jedi came in front of the king.

01:03:44.000 And Kung Fu told him, I heard that you can cut the head of a man off.

01:03:50.000 He said, yes, your majesty.

01:03:52.000 He said, do it.

01:03:55.000 He said, Jedi said, I cannot do it with a human being.

01:03:59.000 He said, okay, I will bring you a prisoner.

01:04:02.000 Jedi said, a prisoner is a human being.

01:04:06.000 Then he brought him a goose.

01:04:10.000 He took the head of the goose up in front of everyone.

01:04:14.000 And the head came back, and the goose was running in front of everyone.

01:04:19.000 That's written in the story.

01:04:21.000 Do you believe that?

01:04:24.000 I come back to what's believed that now.

01:04:26.000 Okay.

01:04:27.000 And the king told him, I want to know the secret of the Gantoth to design my burial chamber.

01:04:33.000 He told him that.

01:04:37.000 This secret will not be in your hand.

01:04:40.000 It will be in the hand of another people who will rule Egypt. 1.00

01:04:45.000 Khufu was very upset.

01:04:46.000 So he wouldn't give him the secret because that secret won't just be in your hands.

01:04:51.000 It'll get into other people's hands and it's dangerous.

01:04:53.000 The king was unhappy.

01:04:55.000 He told them, don't worry, your majesty, because you will rule and your sons and your grandson.

01:05:03.000 Now.

01:05:04.000 About magic.

01:05:06.000 Yeah.

01:05:07.000 Do you believe in religion or not?

01:05:09.000 Yeah.

01:05:10.000 Okay.

01:05:10.000 Do you know about Judaism?

01:05:13.000 Sure, a little bit.

01:05:14.000 When God told Moses, when Moses met God and God told him to go to Egypt to meet the Pharaoh, and God told him, remember, the Pharaohs are highly in magic.

01:05:26.000 Right.

01:05:27.000 They will beat you.

01:05:28.000 Then God taught Moses how to be more in magic than the Pharaoh.

01:05:34.000 And you remember, when he heard the stick, and the stick became a snake, I think.

01:05:40.000 And Moses brought more snakes to swallow what the Pharaoh did.

01:05:46.000 Then we know from books, from Judaism from the beginning, that the ancient Egyptians were really highly in magic. 0.64

01:05:52.000 Then we can believe...

01:05:54.000 Do you think that that magic might have had something to do with how they constructed the pyramids?

01:05:59.000 No?

01:06:00.000 No.

01:06:02.000 But if you believe that they had enough magic to take a goose's head and put it back on and still alive, that's magic.

01:06:08.000 Yeah.

01:06:08.000 Wouldn't they use that magic for other things?

01:06:11.000 But we have.

01:06:11.000 But if you believe in magic.

01:06:13.000 I do, of course.

01:06:14.000 You do believe in magic.

01:06:15.000 Yeah.

01:06:15.000 So you believe that someone could take someone's head off, put it back on.

01:06:18.000 It's written.

01:06:19.000 Okay, then it must be true.

01:06:20.000 Yeah.

01:06:21.000 All right.

01:06:22.000 Yeah.

01:06:24.000 What is this?

01:06:24.000 Someone's going to kill a dove?

01:06:26.000 It's a magic trick.

01:06:27.000 It can decapitate birds and stuff.

01:06:29.000 Oh.

01:06:30.000 Okay.

01:06:31.000 Put it back together.

01:06:32.000 I was just reading it.

01:06:33.000 Apparently on the trick, he did it.

01:06:35.000 He put the head on the other side of the room and made him come back together.

01:06:38.000 He did it to a calf and a different animal also.

01:06:41.000 Now, what really I want to tell you now.

01:06:43.000 Well, that person's magic too.

01:06:45.000 Maybe that person can make us a pyramid.

01:06:46.000 Now, what I want to show you, that I'm not a person.

01:06:49.000 What do you think magic is?

01:06:51.000 Magic is magic.

01:06:52.000 What do you mean?

01:06:53.000 What do you think magic is?

01:06:53.000 Well, how does it work?

01:06:54.000 I have no idea.

01:06:56.000 What do you mean by how it works?

01:06:58.000 Well, I mean, how does someone do something like that?

01:07:00.000 I have no idea.

01:07:01.000 We have to go back.

01:07:02.000 Physically and biologically impossible.

01:07:04.000 We have to go back to 4,600 years ago.

01:07:07.000 And do you think a lot of this information is what was lost in the burning of the Library of Alexandria?

01:07:12.000 Of course.

01:07:13.000 Because they kept unbelievably detailed records, right?

01:07:16.000 But still also, you know, because I will tell you, Hawaii would not have any evidence about Khufu.

01:07:25.000 Timbles and things like that.

01:07:27.000 Because what happened?

01:07:29.000 The ancient Egyptians believed that a pharaoh should be a male.

01:07:35.000 A pharaoh cannot be a female.

01:07:39.000 Anyone who changed the religious belief, they hate him.

01:07:44.000 When she became a pharaoh, they hated her.

01:07:48.000 And they destroyed her monuments.

01:07:50.000 When he changed his cult to be a sun god, In the first intermediate period, they destroyed his monuments, the temples, the statues.

01:08:02.000 The only statue of that king was found in Upper Egypt, not at Giza.

01:08:07.000 Even in the temple of his sons, there were 23 statues.

01:08:12.000 They smashed the statues.

01:08:15.000 Smashing was a sign of revenge.

01:08:19.000 Now, do you have any question about...

01:08:23.000 Kofu pyramid before I switch to the Sphinx?

01:08:28.000 Well, I'm fascinated by a lot of aspects of Kofu's pyramid.

01:08:32.000 Well, one of the big ones that's come up very recently that I'm sure you're aware of is these satellite radar.

01:08:41.000 Was it called tomographic?

01:08:43.000 What is it called?

01:08:44.000 Tomographic?

01:08:45.000 Where they think that there's these pillars underneath the structure.

01:08:49.000 Okay.

01:08:50.000 I investigated this.

01:08:53.000 First of all, these two scholars from Italy, they have never been in Egypt.

01:09:00.000 They have never worked in the pyramids before.

01:09:04.000 Right.

01:09:05.000 They're using satellite information.

01:09:07.000 Number two, they published their article in a journal.

01:09:12.000 This journal does not send their article to the freeze.

01:09:17.000 You pay a fee to publish the article.

01:09:21.000 In your responsibility.

01:09:23.000 Okay.

01:09:24.000 Number three, I am not a scientist.

01:09:28.000 I took these techniques that they used and I gave it to expertise.

01:09:35.000 And they said, these techniques cannot show underneath a solid rock of almost 600 feet down.

01:09:47.000 No way!

01:09:49.000 Why can't they?

01:09:51.000 They said this technique cannot show that.

01:09:53.000 But these scientists are saying they can.

01:09:54.000 Do you know about the OSIRIS shaft?

01:09:57.000 How they've got a...

01:09:58.000 I just covered it.

01:09:59.000 Yeah, you did, right?

01:10:00.000 But do you know that they use this tomographic radar?

01:10:04.000 No!

01:10:04.000 No, I am the one who found it.

01:10:06.000 No, I understand you found it.

01:10:07.000 But they also discovered it.

01:10:09.000 They showed that it exists using the same technique?

01:10:12.000 No!

01:10:13.000 No!

01:10:15.000 This is wrong.

01:10:16.000 This is not true at all.

01:10:19.000 I can tell you how I found it.

01:10:20.000 How can I find it?

01:10:22.000 I'm not saying that you didn't find it.

01:10:24.000 It's under the paper, signature, aperture, radar, Doppler tomography.

01:10:29.000 By Filippo Bondi.

01:10:31.000 And if you scroll down, Jamie, you'll see an image.

01:10:34.000 And this image is of the Osiris shaft, which shows that they got an accurate depiction of that from space.

01:10:44.000 That's not true.

01:10:45.000 It's not true.

01:10:45.000 So what are you saying?

01:10:46.000 That they're lying?

01:10:47.000 They're lying.

01:10:48.000 They're completely lying.

01:10:49.000 But if they're showing, using these techniques, things that we know that you discovered that absolutely exist.

01:10:55.000 Now, these techniques, as I told you, Scientists said that these techniques cannot show 600 feet under the pyramid.

01:11:06.000 The Ozeri shaft that they found was only 50 feet under the ground.

01:11:10.000 Right, but it's showing at least for 50 feet that this is accurate.

01:11:14.000 What makes you believe those scientists rather than these guys from Italy?

01:11:18.000 Because the scientists are scientists.

01:11:21.000 Well, these are scientists as well.

01:11:22.000 They are not showing their techniques carefully.

01:11:26.000 They have not.

01:11:27.000 What do you mean they're not showing their techniques carefully?

01:11:29.000 Take the techniques that they said and show it to any scientist.

01:11:33.000 No one, no one can tell you this is accurate.

01:11:37.000 I ask every person who knows about radar, ultrasound, all the people who work with me, the ScanPyramid project, they say this is bullshit.

01:11:51.000 It cannot happen.

01:11:52.000 At all.

01:11:53.000 Now, tell me.

01:11:55.000 So you're telling me that these scientists that are proclaiming the capabilities of these satellite tomography devices that are saying that they can...

01:12:06.000 See kilometers into the ground with this stuff.

01:12:08.000 That's not true.

01:12:09.000 I did.

01:12:09.000 Are you sure?

01:12:10.000 I did.

01:12:11.000 Do you understand the technology?

01:12:12.000 No, not me.

01:12:14.000 So you're just listening to other people.

01:12:16.000 But I asked scientists who are in this field.

01:12:18.000 Have you talked to these scientists that are saying that they have these discoveries?

01:12:22.000 I sent, I made a press release.

01:12:25.000 But did you talk to them?

01:12:27.000 I did not.

01:12:29.000 Why not?

01:12:29.000 Because they did not talk to me.

01:12:31.000 How can I find them?

01:12:32.000 Would you be willing to talk to them if I can connect you to them?

01:12:35.000 Yes, do.

01:12:35.000 Okay, I'll connect you to them.

01:12:36.000 I'm just interested, if new technology becomes available and they figure out a way to look into the ground and you discover things, especially if they discover the Osiris shaft and it turns to actually be accurate.

01:12:46.000 They don't discover the Osiris shaft again.

01:12:47.000 Okay, you discovered it, but they use their technology to show an accurate depiction of the interior of the Osiris shaft.

01:12:56.000 Joe, the Osiris shaft is true?

01:12:59.000 No.

01:12:59.000 It's not.

01:13:00.000 The Osiris shaft is known to everyone.

01:13:04.000 Right.

01:13:05.000 It can be seen by everyone.

01:13:06.000 But when they turn their equipment on the Osiris shaft, it shows the actual interior.

01:13:13.000 Maybe.

01:13:13.000 I don't know.

01:13:14.000 But this is 50 feet.

01:13:15.000 Let's look at it again.

01:13:16.000 But it took about 600 feet.

01:13:18.000 I understand.

01:13:18.000 But if it can go 50 feet, why can't it go 600 feet?

01:13:21.000 Now, again, I'm not a scientist.

01:13:25.000 Right.

01:13:25.000 So why are you dismissing it, though?

01:13:27.000 I gave.

01:13:28.000 What they published to a scientist and they said that's not true.

01:13:33.000 But scientists are wrong all the time, particularly ones that are biased, correct?

01:13:38.000 Then what I did, I made a brief release explaining my point.

01:13:44.000 And I said, my work of the second pyramid, that the base of the pyramid is 28 feet of solid rock.

01:13:54.000 And there is no way.

01:13:56.000 That anything can be happened in the solid rock.

01:13:59.000 And I explained...

01:14:01.000 I think what they're saying is it's underneath the solid rock, correct?

01:14:04.000 Let me finish.

01:14:05.000 And I said, your techniques that you published in this magazine is not referred by scientists.

01:14:14.000 You just published it.

01:14:15.000 And number three, the team that working in Giza with all these new techniques, they said, this is wrong.

01:14:25.000 And they know...

01:14:26.000 The team that's working in Giza with all these techniques, what do you mean?

01:14:31.000 We have the scan pyramid team.

01:14:34.000 Right.

01:14:34.000 They're working...

01:14:35.000 But you understand this is different technology.

01:14:37.000 I understand, but they know about this technology.

01:14:40.000 But have they used this technology?

01:14:42.000 They said this technology cannot work, cannot show 600 feet under the pyramid at all.

01:14:49.000 This is what they said.

01:14:51.000 And this is why if the Italians... 0.86

01:14:54.000 We're confident they could contact me.

01:14:57.000 I'm the pyramid expert that anyone should...

01:15:01.000 Well, we'll make sure that happens.

01:15:02.000 But listen, if the stone is 20 feet thick, the solid stone at the base, that's correct, right?

01:15:09.000 And you said Osiris shaft is 50 feet.

01:15:12.000 That means it can see past 20 feet.

01:15:15.000 Right?

01:15:16.000 But how can I...

01:15:16.000 So I can see through the stone and see what they're showing repeated over and over again.

01:15:22.000 The Osiris shaft is open.

01:15:24.000 Right.

01:15:25.000 It's not covered to see.

01:15:27.000 I understand.

01:15:28.000 You can go and you see the Osiris shaft down.

01:15:31.000 Right.

01:15:31.000 Everyone can see it.

01:15:32.000 But the interior is not open.

01:15:35.000 And the interior is visible.

01:15:36.000 But you can see the interior.

01:15:37.000 But you can't see it to the exact dimensions the way these tomographic images showed, right?

01:15:44.000 If they're using this technology to go 50 feet under the ground...

01:15:47.000 I'm telling you, I am not a scientist.

01:15:51.000 I understand so, but this is my question.

01:15:53.000 Why would you dismiss it if you haven't looked under there?

01:15:58.000 Because I told you, it is not me who can dismiss this.

01:16:03.000 What does it say, Jeremy?

01:16:04.000 This is the link to the original article, I believe.

01:16:07.000 There's their names.

01:16:08.000 The very first sentence says that...

01:16:10.000 Due to the more penetrating action of electromagnetic waves inside solid bodies, the capability to observe these distributed targets is precluded.

01:16:17.000 And then they had to come up with an experimental...

01:16:20.000 It says experimental results are estimated by processing the SAR images into something else.

01:16:27.000 So I think that's the disconnect I'm hearing.

01:16:31.000 Yeah, I don't understand the technology, but my question is...

01:16:35.000 We know how spectacular the pyramids are.

01:16:38.000 We know how spectacular just the base of it, the fact that it's carved into solid rock.

01:16:42.000 Why would you not think that maybe other spectacular things exist even below it?

01:16:47.000 I told you I am not this type knows about the science.

01:16:55.000 I consulted the team, the top in the world from Japan.

01:17:02.000 France and Egypt.

01:17:03.000 Who are these people?

01:17:04.000 They are the ScanPyramid team.

01:17:05.000 Okay.

01:17:06.000 The ScanPyramid.

01:17:07.000 Yeah.

01:17:07.000 The ones that found the...

01:17:08.000 Exactly.

01:17:09.000 ...the chamber above.

01:17:10.000 And they are working with me.

01:17:12.000 And we found many other things in the second pyramid and the third pyramid.

01:17:15.000 And we published this.

01:17:17.000 We just published an article last week.

01:17:20.000 Using different techniques, right?

01:17:20.000 Then what I am saying, if these techniques, that these two Italians are correct, the only people who really can tell you...

01:17:31.000 It's correct or not, are the scan pyramid people, not me.

01:17:36.000 But the scan pyramid people, aren't they using different technology?

01:17:40.000 But they know about technology.

01:17:41.000 They are the top scientists in the world.

01:17:44.000 I have to believe them, not the two Italians. 1.00

01:17:48.000 And if the Italians are really correct, they could come to talk to us. 0.99

01:17:53.000 Not me.

01:17:54.000 To talk to me and others.

01:17:55.000 I will definitely try to connect you with those people because I know that Graham Hancock and Brian Mirorescu have been in contact with those people.

01:18:03.000 And they're open-minded about it.

01:18:06.000 They don't know what's going on down there, but these images are repeated over and over and over again.

01:18:10.000 Fine.

01:18:11.000 But they...

01:18:11.000 Fascinating.

01:18:12.000 Either way.

01:18:13.000 Okay.

01:18:15.000 The whole...

01:18:17.000 One of the fascinating things about...

01:18:22.000 Egypt to me is the fact that it's not just so much more advanced in terms of construction than anywhere else in the world, but that it's still to this day, like nothing even close has ever been even attempted to this day.

01:18:40.000 What do you think?

01:18:41.000 What was going on back then as far as their capabilities and their understanding that led them to do something so spectacular that other people 4,500 years ago...

01:18:50.000 Again, the belief of the afterlife built Egypt. 0.69

01:18:55.000 Right.

01:18:56.000 But they also had to have the understanding of engineering and construction and design.

01:19:02.000 To do this belief of the afterlife, to build the pyramid, as I told you.

01:19:07.000 This was a national project of the whole nation.

01:19:09.000 No, I understand it's a national project, but they have to acknowledge, right?

01:19:12.000 You can talk about this pyramid if it exists alone.

01:19:15.000 When you come to Egypt and you go through time, you will see that everything gradually.

01:19:21.000 There is no gap that you can...

01:19:24.000 What do you mean by that?

01:19:25.000 There is no gap for anyone to think something different.

01:19:32.000 Well, I don't think anybody's saying that.

01:19:34.000 Well, maybe some people are.

01:19:36.000 Some people do.

01:19:37.000 But, I mean, it's all the Egyptians, obviously. 0.94

01:19:39.000 It was in Egypt.

01:19:40.000 I mean, it's the Egyptians that made it. 1.00

01:19:43.000 It's pretty obvious.

01:19:44.000 That just seems obvious.

01:19:46.000 Then, if you believe in that, I'm happy to hear this from you.

01:19:49.000 Well, I just think whenever people say it's aliens, they're like, where's the proof of that?

01:19:53.000 Exactly.

01:19:54.000 Also, they built a lot of spectacular things.

01:19:57.000 Like, no ifs, ands, or buts.

01:20:00.000 Just the statues, just the faces of the pharaohs with incredible symmetry.

01:20:04.000 Since you are interested in Egypt, we would like to invite you to come to Egypt.

01:20:10.000 I want to come.

01:20:12.000 We are willing to invite you.

01:20:14.000 I'm willing to go.

01:20:15.000 Okay, tell me when, and I will arrange everything for you.

01:20:19.000 Okay, we'll hook it up.

01:20:20.000 But now, I want to come to the Sphinx also.

01:20:22.000 Can we talk about the Sphinx?

01:20:23.000 Yes, please.

01:20:24.000 Now, you know, when I was young, I was met by the Edgar Cayce son.

01:20:32.000 The psychic guy.

01:20:33.000 Julian Cayce.

01:20:33.000 Yeah.

01:20:34.000 And Julian Cayce was the son of Edgar Cayce.

01:20:36.000 I was young.

01:20:38.000 I really don't know what this Cayce had.

01:20:41.000 When he came to Egypt and talked about me, about his father, you know about Edgar Cayce.

01:20:48.000 Yeah.

01:20:49.000 He had a vision that there was a chamber underneath the Sphinx's paw.

01:20:53.000 Underneath the right paw of the Sphinx, there is a chamber.

01:20:57.000 And he envisioned that, correct?

01:20:59.000 Yes.

01:21:00.000 And this is why I'm going to Virginia Beach to give a talk.

01:21:04.000 One of the cities in my tour now is Virginia Beach.

01:21:08.000 Why?

01:21:09.000 Because when people began to tell me there is something inside these things, I really, as I told you, I have an open mind.

01:21:21.000 And I did search.

01:21:24.000 I found inside the Sphinx four tunnels.

01:21:28.000 One behind the stela.

01:21:31.000 They call it dream stela between the two balls of the Sphinx.

01:21:35.000 And the second one behind the head in the top.

01:21:40.000 There's actually a door in the top of the head.

01:21:43.000 No, no, no.

01:21:43.000 Just a tunnel.

01:21:45.000 A tunnel.

01:21:46.000 25 feet.

01:21:47.000 Isn't it closed off, though?

01:21:48.000 No, yeah, it's closed.

01:21:49.000 Yeah, there's like a door on the top of it, right?

01:21:51.000 It's not a door, no.

01:21:52.000 A lid?

01:21:53.000 It's just a tunnel.

01:21:54.000 Okay, but it's closed off.

01:21:57.000 You cannot go up to the Sphinx.

01:21:59.000 That's why we have to cover it, because it will take rubbish and garbage.

01:22:03.000 Well, that's the top.

01:22:04.000 That's what I'm talking about.

01:22:05.000 Isn't that the top of it?

01:22:06.000 Is this the Sphinx?

01:22:07.000 Yes, that's it.

01:22:08.000 Okay, that's a lid, right?

01:22:09.000 Yeah, we covered it.

01:22:12.000 Okay.

01:22:13.000 Yeah.

01:22:14.000 But we covered it.

01:22:14.000 Got it.

01:22:15.000 To protect it from the sand.

01:22:16.000 I understand.

01:22:16.000 But it's not a door.

01:22:18.000 Okay.

01:22:18.000 It's a lid.

01:22:19.000 The third tunnel that I found in the back.

01:22:23.000 Now, Edgar Cayce, he had this vision that there was some hall of information.

01:22:29.000 I know, but I'm going to come to this now.

01:22:31.000 Yeah.

01:22:31.000 But I'm talking to you about the tunnels now.

01:22:35.000 And the third one is in the tail.

01:22:37.000 The fourth one was opened in 1927.

01:22:42.000 By a French, his name is Monsieur Berets, and I do have photos of workmen inside the Sphinx.

01:22:50.000 We found these four tunnels are published.

01:22:56.000 An article, a scientific article, I found in situ, in all the four tunnels of pottery, in situ, to prove that these tunnels were opened.

01:23:12.000 On Dynasty 25, 500 BC, as in the late period, when the Egyptians saw the Sphinx, they thought there is something hidden underneath, and they dug, and they found nothing.

01:23:27.000 Now, we come to the Edgar Cayce and what people believe, because we had John Antinous and we had many New Age people who believe there is something hidden underneath us.

01:23:41.000 I said, how can I let someone who's not an archaeologist, who's not a scientist, to drill?

01:23:53.000 No way!

01:23:55.000 But recently, I found out the rise of the water table in front of the Sphinx.

01:24:01.000 And I was really afraid.

01:24:03.000 That the water could damage the Sphinx.

01:24:07.000 Then I brought a team from Kyrie University and we did drill 30 to 35 feet underneath the Sphinx everywhere.

01:24:20.000 And I do have photos of everywhere under the Sphinx.

01:24:26.000 The Sphinx is a solid rock or a living rock and there is nothing underneath.

01:24:31.000 So there's no tunnels?

01:24:32.000 No tunnels.

01:24:33.000 Exactly.

01:24:34.000 Okay.

01:24:35.000 I told you water.

01:24:35.000 What do you think about Robert Schock and his theory about the temple and the erosion outside of the Sphinx, that it's water erosion?

01:24:44.000 When Schock said that, okay, we brought through the American Research Center a scientist from Louisville University.

01:24:57.000 I don't remember his name now.

01:25:00.000 And we gave him what Robert Schock...

01:25:05.000 You know what Robert Schock said?

01:25:07.000 It's not a theory.

01:25:08.000 It's a theory of a New Age guy who talked about this before, and John Anton West brought Schock.

01:25:15.000 I don't remember who.

01:25:17.000 Then we gave this guy from Louisville University.

01:25:21.000 He was an Indian-American who really studied.

01:25:26.000 He came to the Schinks, and he worked with us for a season. 0.72

01:25:29.000 And he came and we published many articles that the erosion that you see outside and inside the Sphinx is from wind and not from water.

01:25:43.000 Now, what shock want to say that this is dated back 15,000 years ago?

01:25:51.000 I agree.

01:25:52.000 Okay.

01:25:53.000 If I came here and I dug the Sphinx, I would leave something.

01:25:59.000 Then what I did, we dug an area northeast of the Sphinx.

01:26:04.000 I found, live in Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom, New Kingdom, Roman.

01:26:11.000 Nothing underneath.

01:26:12.000 In this new age, people say that the head of the Sphinx is very small compared to the body.

01:26:18.000 Yes.

01:26:19.000 Why?

01:26:20.000 Why?

01:26:21.000 If you take all the casing stones away from the Sphinx, you'll find exactly here.

01:26:29.000 The Sphinx, and now this, and another part like this.

01:26:36.000 In between, there is a hollow.

01:26:38.000 Remember, I told you that Giza Plateau is divided to three levels.

01:26:45.000 Level one and two is very bad stones, can be seen to the chest of the Sphinx.

01:26:52.000 Level three, they carved the head from level three.

01:26:55.000 Then when the Egyptians carved the head... 0.95

01:26:58.000 To represent the King Kephrin with the copra, the royal head Remus.

01:27:04.000 They began to make a loin body.

01:27:09.000 Then what they did, they filled this hollow between the two sphinx pieces with stones.

01:27:16.000 And they covered the whole body of the sphinx with stones.

01:27:21.000 And they did the modeling of the loin body on the covering stones.

01:27:25.000 And this is why the head.

01:27:27.000 It's very small, comparing to the body.

01:27:29.000 So you think the head was made first, and then the body was made later.

01:27:33.000 Exactly.

01:27:34.000 If that's the case, why is the body so much more eroded than the head?

01:27:38.000 I told you, the body, it is a part of the bad stones.

01:27:42.000 Bad stones.

01:27:43.000 The top one is the head.

01:27:45.000 Exactly.

01:27:46.000 So there's a different density to the stones.

01:27:48.000 That's why the stone in the Sphinx's head...

01:27:52.000 Is intact and the body is a softer stone.

01:27:55.000 It's level three.

01:27:57.000 So it's a different kind of stone.

01:27:59.000 Exactly.

01:28:00.000 Of the body.

01:28:01.000 Because there's layers to it all and some of the layers are more dense.

01:28:05.000 The Egyptians wanted to make a loin body. 0.98

01:28:08.000 They couldn't.

01:28:09.000 The only way is to cover the body of stones and do the modeling of the loin body on the covering stones.

01:28:17.000 Can we...

01:28:18.000 Take two minutes rest.

01:28:20.000 Yeah, sure.

01:28:21.000 You want to take a break?

01:28:21.000 Yes, to go to the bathroom.

01:28:23.000 Okay, go to the bathroom. 1.00

01:28:24.000 You know where it is?

01:28:25.000 Yes.

01:28:25.000 Just go outside, take a left.

01:28:27.000 We're back.

01:28:30.000 The Sphinx.

01:28:32.000 Let's pick up where we left off.

01:28:34.000 So you were saying that these other experts that looked at it didn't agree that it was water erosion and said that they think that it was wind.

01:28:45.000 So what...

01:28:46.000 John Anthony West and what Graham Hancock and what Robert Chalk and all these different people are trying to allude to is that perhaps there was even older stuff that was in Egypt and that the things that you're seeing that are 2500 BC, those are even more recent than the older stuff.

01:29:06.000 Tell me about Zeptepe.

01:29:08.000 What's Zeptepe? 0.66

01:29:09.000 What's this?

01:29:10.000 You never heard about...

01:29:13.000 Have you heard about, you know about the King's List, right?

01:29:16.000 The old King's List that goes back 30,000 whatever years?

01:29:21.000 Who said that?

01:29:22.000 You never seen it?

01:29:23.000 It's not in hieroglyphs?

01:29:24.000 This is not true.

01:29:26.000 It's not true?

01:29:26.000 No.

01:29:27.000 This is speculation from people who knows nothing about history.

01:29:33.000 There is nothing King's List dated back 30,000 years ago at all.

01:29:38.000 So why do people keep saying that?

01:29:40.000 Because they don't know.

01:29:41.000 It's speculation.

01:29:43.000 Give me one evidence of that.

01:29:45.000 The first king list dated back to Dynasty V. Only.

01:29:50.000 I was reading that people were saying that it was myth.

01:29:53.000 That the king's list, even though there is like some hieroglyphics of ancient kings, that these are just mythical tales.

01:30:01.000 This is not true.

01:30:03.000 There is no at all a name that you told me.

01:30:07.000 I never heard of this name.

01:30:08.000 I am an Egyptologist working in Egypt for the last 57 years.

01:30:15.000 I never heard of this king list at all.

01:30:18.000 Never?

01:30:19.000 Never.

01:30:20.000 You never even heard of it?

01:30:21.000 Why do I have to hear about it?

01:30:22.000 Because it's not true.

01:30:23.000 I don't want to waste my time.

01:30:25.000 In things like this, I am a person, give me a fact.

01:30:29.000 Tell me, what is this list?

01:30:31.000 So in ancient Egyptians, Zeb Tepe refers to the first time or the first occasion.

01:30:34.000 Who said this?

01:30:35.000 This is an AI.

01:30:36.000 It refers to a mythical golden age of Egypt where gods lived on earth and civilization was in its infancy.

01:30:43.000 This period is often associated with the beginning of creation and the establishment of societal structures.

01:30:48.000 You've never heard of that before?

01:30:50.000 No, and this is not true.

01:30:51.000 What do you mean it's not true?

01:30:52.000 I'm getting this off of...

01:30:54.000 It never happened at all.

01:30:56.000 Okay, I'm not saying it happened.

01:30:58.000 I'm just saying this is something that's referred to.

01:31:01.000 I never heard about it.

01:31:04.000 It is not true.

01:31:05.000 It has not existed at all.

01:31:07.000 Even if it doesn't exist, the myth of it exists.

01:31:11.000 Listen, Joel.

01:31:12.000 Why do I have to go to a myth?

01:31:16.000 If you go to Wikipedia...

01:31:19.000 I don't care about Wikipedia.

01:31:20.000 I understand.

01:31:21.000 I care about what I see in my eyes as an archaeologist or a philologist.

01:31:26.000 In all the myths, the world was said to emerge from an infinite lifeless sea when the sun rose for the first time in a distant period known as Zeptepe.

01:31:37.000 The first occasion.

01:31:38.000 Different myths attributed to the creation of different gods.

01:31:41.000 The set of eight primordial deities called...

01:31:44.000 Agdod, the contemplative deity Ptah, and the mysterious transcendent god Amun.

01:31:51.000 While describing these different cosmologies, completed to some extent in other ways they were complementary in different aspects of Egyptian understanding of creation.

01:32:01.000 It's the Egyptian creation myth. 0.70

01:32:03.000 Fine.

01:32:03.000 You've never heard of that before?

01:32:04.000 Never heard of that.

01:32:05.000 That seems strange that you didn't hear about that before.

01:32:07.000 Listen, listen.

01:32:07.000 I've heard of it before.

01:32:08.000 Fine, you can hear about it.

01:32:10.000 But I mean, I just found it online.

01:32:11.000 It's a new age theory.

01:32:13.000 It's new age?

01:32:13.000 Yes.

01:32:14.000 Listen to me.

01:32:15.000 I know.

01:32:17.000 And any Egyptologist who study Egyptology in the States here, you have universities in UCLA, and you have Berkeley, and you have John Hopkins, and you have every...

01:32:30.000 There is no...

01:32:32.000 Every Egyptologist here study languages and archaeology.

01:32:37.000 No one can...

01:32:40.000 Answer what you are talking about.

01:32:42.000 This is hallucination.

01:32:44.000 I'm sorry.

01:32:45.000 This is not true.

01:32:46.000 It's a speculation from people, but never in Egypt.

01:32:51.000 We know the prehistory of Egypt.

01:32:53.000 We know the pre-dynastic of Egypt. 0.98

01:32:55.000 We know the beginning of civilization.

01:32:58.000 We know there is no gap in anything that can let some things like that.

01:33:05.000 And that's why I never heard of it, and I don't want to hear about it.

01:33:09.000 You don't want to hear about it?

01:33:10.000 No, why?

01:33:11.000 Because there is no evidence.

01:33:12.000 I am a scientist.

01:33:14.000 I believe on what's written in front of me, and I believe of a scene that I can see.

01:33:21.000 But I don't believe on theories like this.

01:33:24.000 Tell me where is this found, and where it is, and who published it?

01:33:29.000 What is the scientist who published it?

01:33:32.000 What is the eseptologist who talked about it?

01:33:35.000 I'd like to know.

01:33:36.000 That's why I'm asking you.

01:33:37.000 I never heard of it.

01:33:38.000 Well, I'm shocked that you haven't at least heard of it and dismissed it before.

01:33:44.000 Because I think it's a part of the creation myth.

01:33:48.000 I know, but it's not true.

01:33:50.000 I received many theories every day.

01:33:54.000 My mind, Joe, now is really cannot stand all these theories, all of it.

01:34:00.000 It's too much for me.

01:34:01.000 It's too much for me.

01:34:03.000 Got it.

01:34:05.000 See if you can find anything on that, Jamie, where that myth came from.

01:34:09.000 I'm working on it.

01:34:09.000 I think I know.

01:34:10.000 Yeah?

01:34:10.000 Yeah.

01:34:11.000 Is it a Bufal thing? 1.00

01:34:15.000 What I just found is that it came from a...

01:34:17.000 Who's Bufal? 1.00

01:34:18.000 Bufal is not a scientist.

01:34:20.000 No, I'm just asking.

01:34:21.000 Yeah, I know.

01:34:22.000 Those people, I mean, when someone came to you with a theory, he has to have an Egyptology background.

01:34:30.000 He has to write a scientific article.

01:34:33.000 We write all what we discover.

01:34:36.000 We write articles about them for people to read and criticize and give us opinion.

01:34:41.000 But I can't go to theories like this.

01:34:44.000 I understand.

01:34:45.000 What do you base the dates on?

01:34:48.000 Do you base it on carbon isotope?

01:34:50.000 No, we don't.

01:34:51.000 We base dating on the evidence that we discover.

01:34:54.000 Right, but some of it is based on carbon, right?

01:34:57.000 No.

01:34:58.000 I don't believe in carbon date 14 at all.

01:35:00.000 You don't?

01:35:01.000 No.

01:35:01.000 Carbon date 14 never gives an accurate dating.

01:35:04.000 And that's why I believe, you know, when you discover something, if you discover a symmetry, there is two types of datings.

01:35:13.000 One called absolute dating.

01:35:17.000 Means that in this symmetry, you have a name of a king and a date.

01:35:22.000 Means this is absolute.

01:35:24.000 But if you discover another symmetry and has no dates, then the best thing that we do is to find the artifacts in this symmetry and try to compare it with other dated symmetry.

01:35:41.000 And you give a date for this.

01:35:42.000 But you don't believe in carbon dusting.

01:35:44.000 I don't believe in carbon dusting at all.

01:35:46.000 And it's not working in Egypt until today.

01:35:49.000 I have been excavating.

01:35:51.000 I'm excavating also in the Valley of the Kings.

01:35:55.000 Right.

01:35:55.000 And I discovered major important things that we can talk about.

01:35:59.000 So if you're going back...

01:36:00.000 But I used radar in all my excavation.

01:36:06.000 What do you mean?

01:36:06.000 And I never had a result by radar.

01:36:10.000 And carbon date 14, people use it when there is no date.

01:36:15.000 But wait a minute, you use radar to date things?

01:36:18.000 How?

01:36:18.000 No, I use radar to discover things.

01:36:20.000 Right.

01:36:20.000 But what do you use to date them?

01:36:23.000 Dating, as I told you, two methods of dating.

01:36:26.000 Yeah.

01:36:27.000 Most of the dating that for me now in Luxor is based on evidence.

01:36:32.000 Like I discovered the Golden City.

01:36:36.000 It's a major...

01:36:37.000 Big, large cemetery, large settlement, a city.

01:36:43.000 And you know, this city was chosen the most important discovery in the world of year 2021 because this is the first time that we have a big, large city to tell us about the people who made this civilization.

01:36:59.000 So how do you know how old the city is?

01:37:01.000 Exactly.

01:37:02.000 In the city, we discovered the names everywhere of King Amenhotep III, who was the father of Eknaton.

01:37:12.000 Inside the city, we found many statues of his queen, Queen T. We found inscriptions about dried meat stored to celebrate the third set festival of Amenhotep III.

01:37:30.000 We found nine royal workshops in the city.

01:37:35.000 Then the city tells us about the golden age of that king.

01:37:41.000 It is dated by pottery, by hieroglyphic inscription, by many things.

01:37:47.000 But I'm curious as to why you're...

01:37:49.000 I'm skeptical about carbon dating because I think carbon dating is generally accepted as being accurate within a certain framework.

01:37:56.000 It is, but I never used it.

01:37:58.000 And many people, very rare, used in Egypt because in Egypt mainly we have absolute chronology.

01:38:05.000 We have absolute dating based on inscriptions.

01:38:09.000 Right, but I thought it was used in Egypt like to measure wood that was in mortar.

01:38:17.000 To date the Great Pyramid to 2500 BC?

01:38:20.000 No, that was an experiment to date the pyramid.

01:38:25.000 I think it was about 2009.

01:38:27.000 And it's not working.

01:38:30.000 I didn't see the result.

01:38:32.000 You haven't seen a result on carbon testing of the mortar of the Great Pyramid?

01:38:36.000 No.

01:38:37.000 But the mortar, you can't.

01:38:39.000 One thing.

01:38:40.000 The mortar between the stones.

01:38:44.000 Right.

01:38:45.000 This mortar...

01:38:46.000 Like, if you take a piece of stone from the pyramid and you try to take Corporal 14, this piece of stone could be thousands of years in the quarry.

01:38:55.000 It cannot date the pyramid.

01:38:57.000 How can you date it?

01:38:57.000 Well, hold on.

01:38:58.000 Hold on.

01:38:58.000 You don't date stone.

01:39:00.000 I'm saying if you date mortar.

01:39:02.000 Okay.

01:39:03.000 How can you say accurately that this mortar is dated to the same time of building the pyramid?

01:39:10.000 Well, you can actually.

01:39:11.000 That's the argument is that there is probably repairs done, right?

01:39:16.000 Of the pyramid?

01:39:17.000 Yes.

01:39:18.000 No, of the Great Pyramid.

01:39:19.000 There is no evidence of any restoration.

01:39:22.000 No, never.

01:39:23.000 Never any accurate evidence that the pyramid was restored in any period of the Egyptian history.

01:39:32.000 There is restoration that goes on even now, though, on the Sphinx, correct?

01:39:36.000 I did make 10 years of restoration.

01:39:41.000 It's me who did the restoration of the Sphinx for 10 years.

01:39:44.000 Why did you decide to do that?

01:39:45.000 Because the Sphinx, when I left, I was studying in the States. 0.95

01:39:51.000 I came to take my doctorate from the University of Pennsylvania from 1980.

01:39:57.000 From '80 to '87, some architects and archaeologists were really stupid.

01:40:05.000 They began to restore the Sphinx, and they took all the casing stones of the Sphinx out, and they put modern stones, and they used cement.

01:40:17.000 You cannot use cement in the restoration.

01:40:21.000 You can use cement in building a house.

01:40:24.000 Yeah, that's not even restoration.

01:40:25.000 This is a new creation.

01:40:27.000 When I came, I stopped this restoration.

01:40:30.000 Okay.

01:40:34.000 This restoration damaged completely the proportions of the Sphinx.

01:40:39.000 It brings to you another Sphinx.

01:40:42.000 Right.

01:40:43.000 Ugly.

01:40:44.000 Yeah.

01:40:44.000 A few months later, there was a stone was restored in the shoulder of the Sphinx, and it fell down.

01:40:55.000 In February, it was raining.

01:40:58.000 And always people use the Sphinx for politics. 0.56

01:41:03.000 The Sphinx?

01:41:04.000 For politics?

01:41:05.000 I tell you, it happened the first time in the Pharaonic period.

01:41:11.000 You know, the area beside the Sphinx was called the Valley of Gazelles.

01:41:17.000 And the princes of the New Kingdom used to come to hunt wild animals in the valley and come to worship the Sphinx. 0.79

01:41:28.000 And this story that I'm telling you is written...

01:41:32.000 In a granite stela, it's called the dream stela, located now between the two paws of the Sphinx.

01:41:40.000 In the stela, it say that Thutmose IV was a prince, and he came to have a nap beside the Sphinx.

01:41:50.000 And the Sphinx came to him in a dream and told him, My son, if you remove the sand away, I will make you the king of Egypt.

01:42:00.000 Then here he moved the sand, and he came to a temple.

01:42:07.000 He found a door.

01:42:08.000 What year was this?

01:42:09.000 This is 3,000 years ago, exactly.

01:42:14.000 So the Sphinx was constructed long before then.

01:42:17.000 Before the old kingdom.

01:42:18.000 And then it had been covered in sand.

01:42:19.000 Yes, completely.

01:42:21.000 This is why Herodotus, the father of history, when he came to Egypt in the middle of the 5th century BC, he never talked about the Sphinx.

01:42:30.000 Because it's completely under the sand.

01:42:32.000 Then when Thutmuth IV came, he took the sand away.

01:42:37.000 And he found that the old kingdom casing blocks are falling down.

01:42:41.000 He put them back.

01:42:43.000 And he went to the Sphinx, a temple nearby.

01:42:47.000 He took this granite steel as a door and he wrote this story in it.

01:42:52.000 But we found there is something politics in that story.

01:42:57.000 He killed his elder brother.

01:43:00.000 Who was supposed to be the king of Egypt.

01:43:02.000 And he wrote this story to tell the Egyptian that the god Horus of the horizon, it shows me to be the king of Egypt.

01:43:15.000 Then they will forget the crime that he did.

01:43:18.000 When that stone, it fell down in 1988, a big fight happened between the head of Antiquities and the minister of Kershaw.

01:43:30.000 By firing the head of antiquities.

01:43:32.000 It's politics.

01:43:33.000 But I stayed 10 years.

01:43:37.000 When people ask me about the best thing that I did in my life, I say two things.

01:43:43.000 Number one, that I restored the Sphinx.

01:43:46.000 I brought the proportion of the Sphinx back.

01:43:50.000 And I restored the oldest pyramid in Egypt, the steep pyramid.

01:43:55.000 It was falling down.

01:43:58.000 In 14 years, I made major important conservation and restoration.

01:44:03.000 And I tell people, why do I have to fight all the time about the age of the pyramid?

01:44:09.000 We have to fight.

01:44:10.000 We have to cooperate, all of us, to restore these monuments.

01:44:15.000 And the most important thing for me always is conservation.

01:44:20.000 And I dedicate most of my life not only to the excavation.

01:44:25.000 But to conservation.

01:44:26.000 What do you think the arguments are that predate, that try to push the date back of the construction of the pyramids?

01:44:35.000 I never heard of this.

01:44:37.000 You've never heard of this before?

01:44:38.000 No, it's only new.

01:44:39.000 It's theories from the new age.

01:44:41.000 But I know I saw a debate with you.

01:44:43.000 I saw a debate with you and Graham Hancock and there was another archaeologist.

01:44:47.000 Hold on.

01:44:49.000 The other archaeologist was saying, if you're saying that something happened 10,000 years ago, where is the evidence of any civilization from 10,000 years ago?

01:44:58.000 Exactly.

01:44:58.000 But then you found Gopekli Tepe.

01:45:00.000 So Gobekli Tepe was buried over 11,000 years ago.

01:45:03.000 That's not true.

01:45:04.000 I never heard about this.

01:45:05.000 What do you mean it's not true?

01:45:07.000 It's not true what I told you.

01:45:08.000 What is not true?

01:45:09.000 It never happened.

01:45:10.000 Gobekli Tepe?

01:45:10.000 We never discovered this at all.

01:45:12.000 Wait a minute.

01:45:12.000 Gobekli Tepe is in Turkey.

01:45:14.000 Oh, in Turkey.

01:45:15.000 Yes.

01:45:15.000 Gobekli Tepe is in Turkey and it's more than 11,000 years old.

01:45:20.000 Okay, fine.

01:45:21.000 It's very complex stone structures.

01:45:23.000 Fine, fine.

01:45:24.000 But this was the evidence.

01:45:25.000 Hold on.

01:45:26.000 This is the evidence in the argument.

01:45:28.000 The argument was there was no evidence of an ancient civilization from 10,000 plus years ago.

01:45:33.000 This is before the discovery of Gobekli Tepe.

01:45:35.000 Gobekli Tepe gets discovered, known to be more than 11,000 years ago.

01:45:40.000 That changes everything.

01:45:42.000 Yes, it does.

01:45:43.000 Hold on.

01:45:44.000 Because now we know there was an advanced civilization capable of a spectacular construction 11,000 plus years ago.

01:45:51.000 This is what...

01:45:52.000 Listen.

01:45:53.000 Look at the archaeologists in Turkey or in any civilization.

01:46:01.000 Okay.

01:46:02.000 They never talk about old civilization.

01:46:05.000 That's not true.

01:46:06.000 Gobekli Tepe is universally accepted as being more than 11,000 years old.

01:46:12.000 I am talking now about Egypt.

01:46:14.000 No, I understand.

01:46:15.000 But the argument was that there was never any ancient civilization capable of spectacular construction 10,000 years ago.

01:46:23.000 Now that they showed Gobekli Tepe is more than 11,000 years old, they know for sure that's not true.

01:46:29.000 Okay.

01:46:30.000 But now I'm talking about the pyramids of Egypt.

01:46:33.000 I have the evidence, the written.

01:46:36.000 We found everything about that.

01:46:39.000 We know the dating.

01:46:40.000 And I give you hundreds of evidence.

01:46:44.000 That this pyramid built by Khufu? 1.00

01:46:46.000 No, I'm not saying it wasn't.

01:46:48.000 I'm not saying it wasn't.

01:46:49.000 What I'm saying is...

01:46:51.000 Any civilization older than we know...

01:46:54.000 Older and still in the same spot.

01:46:56.000 How old does it go back?

01:46:57.000 We have no evidence.

01:46:59.000 So how does ancient Egypt emerge?

01:47:02.000 Emerge?

01:47:02.000 We have...

01:47:03.000 How does it emerge and go from zero to pyramids?

01:47:06.000 Okay, we have...

01:47:07.000 Do you have...

01:47:08.000 Can you listen to me?

01:47:09.000 Yeah.

01:47:10.000 We have prehistoric Egypt.

01:47:13.000 Right.

01:47:13.000 And we have the Old Stone Age, Middle Stone Age, Neolithic, when the Egyptians began to know about agriculture.

01:47:23.000 And they began to live together in communities.

01:47:28.000 Then after that, we came to the pre-dynastic.

01:47:30.000 When a king called Narmer, in Dynasty Zero, he began to make unification of the Upper and Lower Egypt.

01:47:40.000 Until one king...

01:47:42.000 Called Mina, or Horaha, who united completely.

01:47:48.000 And what year was this?

01:47:49.000 This is what was 3000 BC.

01:47:52.000 5000 years ago.

01:47:54.000 In a place called Abidas, they built huge mud brick tombs.

01:48:00.000 Huge.

01:48:01.000 From mud brick.

01:48:03.000 No stones.

01:48:04.000 And these tombs are created in a site called Abidas.

01:48:10.000 You know, what's really fascinating about this is that 500 years, you think about that, how different just modern civilization was 500 years ago.

01:48:20.000 500 years ago, we had almost none of the inventions we have today.

01:48:23.000 We had no internal combustion engine, you know, no hardened steel, none of the things that we have.

01:48:29.000 And now, look what we have with electronics.

01:48:31.000 Now imagine what the Egyptians were able to do in 500 years in a different way, in construction with stone. 0.72

01:48:40.000 That their advancements weren't like our advancements, but their advancements were equally spectacular, just in a different way.

01:48:47.000 Okay.

01:48:48.000 Now I come back to the mud brick structure.

01:48:52.000 This is in Dynasty 1 and 2. On Dynasty 3 came a king called Zoser. 0.53

01:49:00.000 He had a genius architect.

01:49:03.000 His name is Imhotep.

01:49:05.000 I am searching.

01:49:07.000 Did you hear about Imhotep before?

01:49:09.000 Yes.

01:49:10.000 I'm searching for his tomb.

01:49:11.000 Only two weeks ago, before I came, I made a major, important discovery in Egypt.

01:49:17.000 I found a tomb of a son of a king inside incredible statues of Zoser and his father and his queens and his children.

01:49:28.000 Where's this tomb?

01:49:29.000 In the shadow of the Stepiram, in the shadow of Zoser. 0.98

01:49:33.000 And this really made me because I have been searching for the tomb of him hot up most of my life.

01:49:40.000 But the area that I found this tomb, it was under.

01:49:45.000 houses, modern houses.

01:49:47.000 Oh, wow.

01:49:48.000 The workmen who work in the site, 100 years ago, they built houses in the site.

01:49:55.000 But they never excavated what's underneath the houses.

01:49:58.000 Wow.

01:49:58.000 So modern houses and underneath there's an ancient tomb.

01:50:01.000 Six months ago, we gave houses to these people in another area, and we demolished these houses.

01:50:09.000 And we found underneath major discoveries.

01:50:13.000 This discovery will be in today's show this week.

01:50:18.000 Now, I am sure now that Imhotep's tomb is in this area.

01:50:25.000 Wow.

01:50:26.000 What technology can you use to discover these underground caverns and chambers?

01:50:31.000 All what I do is digging.

01:50:36.000 That's it?

01:50:36.000 That's it.

01:50:37.000 What if these Italian guys are onto something and you can find more stuff?

01:50:41.000 I want you to come to see what I do and what I discover.

01:50:45.000 I want to.

01:50:46.000 I want to talk to the Italians, too.

01:50:48.000 And what I discover, I can show it to you.

01:50:50.000 Please do.

01:50:51.000 Jamie, Zepp Teppi, did you find anything about that?

01:50:54.000 About that?

01:50:56.000 Where are the origins of that?

01:50:58.000 Maybe a book from 1960.

01:51:01.000 And I couldn't figure out how he got there.

01:51:03.000 It's probably a long sludge through information to try to get to the root of it.

01:51:07.000 But can we continue with how it happened until you have the pyramids?

01:51:13.000 Sure.

01:51:14.000 Then Imhotep came and he built the same mastaba. 0.81

01:51:19.000 Mastaba in Arabic means a bench.

01:51:22.000 He built the construction in mud brick of stone for the first time.

01:51:29.000 And he added more section to the first one.

01:51:33.000 And he put above that five Bastabas.

01:51:38.000 It's called the Step Pyramid.

01:51:41.000 So that's the first one.

01:51:43.000 In the pyramid text, they say that the Step Pyramid is a stairs that the king is buried underneath to go to heaven.

01:51:53.000 And this one was how many years before the Great Pyramid?

01:51:57.000 It's almost 700 years.

01:52:03.000 So, obviously, it's not nearly as sophisticated as the Great Pyramid.

01:52:07.000 So, in 700 years, it just got way better at it.

01:52:09.000 But listen, now, on Daraste 3, there is another pyramid was found.

01:52:17.000 And only I found recently...

01:52:22.000 That I did not excavate it completely.

01:52:25.000 I found a pyramid, which is the end of Dynasty 3, of a king called Honi.

01:52:32.000 Then now we came to Senefro.

01:52:33.000 His name is Horny?

01:52:34.000 Honi.

01:52:35.000 Honi.

01:52:36.000 H-U-N-I. 1.00

01:52:39.000 Then we come to Dynasty 4, Senefro.

01:52:42.000 Senefro had a genius architect.

01:52:45.000 His name was Nefermat.

01:52:48.000 Then he started...

01:52:50.000 Sounds like a good name for a genius.

01:52:51.000 Yeah, he started to build a step pyramid like this in a site called Maidoum.

01:52:58.000 But for a reason we do not know, he left it unfinished.

01:53:02.000 And he went to a place called Dahshur.

01:53:06.000 He built the pyramid with a huge angle.

01:53:11.000 And he changed the angle.

01:53:13.000 It became bent.

01:53:16.000 And he built another pyramid.

01:53:18.000 If you look at the other pyramid of the father of Gufu, it's exactly equal to the Great Pyramid.

01:53:26.000 This is the first true pyramid, but people never go to the shore to look at this pyramid.

01:53:32.000 They will always look at Gufu. 1.00

01:53:35.000 Then you have in Dynasty four, the pyramids were huge because of the quality of the stones.

01:53:45.000 In Dynasty V and VI, there is no good quality of stones.

01:53:49.000 In the Egyptian, made decrees on the volume of the stones and did increase in the volume of the war reliefs.

01:53:59.000 Temples began to be decorated with scenes for the first time.

01:54:05.000 In the Middle Kingdom, another trend.

01:54:08.000 Mud brick pyramid, but underneath maze corridors.

01:54:13.000 Of stones.

01:54:15.000 That if you go down, you will lose your way.

01:54:20.000 In the new kingdom, they built, they came in the top of the Valley of the Kings, a shape of the pyramid, and they buried all the kings like King Tut and others underneath the pyramid.

01:54:35.000 Shape.

01:54:38.000 So that's the story.

01:54:40.000 That's the story.

01:54:41.000 All right.

01:54:42.000 But listen, man, it's been fascinating talking to you, and I definitely am going to take you up on your offer.

01:54:47.000 I'm definitely going to go to Egypt.

01:54:48.000 No, now we'll talk.

01:54:49.000 Now we'll talk.

01:54:50.000 We'll talk to Mustafa.

01:54:52.000 Send me that video so we can splice it in of the hieroglyphs that are on the wall.

01:54:56.000 We'll send that, right?

01:54:57.000 I will send it tomorrow.

01:54:58.000 Okay.

01:54:59.000 But give the email to Greg and Mustafa now.

01:55:03.000 We will do that.

01:55:03.000 And they are the people that will talk to them now to arrange for your trip.

01:55:07.000 Okay.

01:55:09.000 And I would invite you for a good- How many days do you think I should go?

01:55:12.000 10 days at least.

01:55:13.000 Jamie, you got to come.

01:55:15.000 You want to do a podcast from there?

01:55:16.000 Just you and me.

01:55:17.000 Let us do one Inside the Great Pyramid.

01:55:20.000 Yeah, definitely.

01:55:22.000 100%.

01:55:22.000 Okay.

01:55:23.000 With the echoey though.

01:55:24.000 Oh, here's another problem with the idea that these Italians are proposing. 1.00

01:55:28.000 Isn't there a water table under the pyramid that's like a million years old?

01:55:33.000 No.

01:55:33.000 There's not water underneath there?

01:55:35.000 No.

01:55:36.000 This is the Osiris shaft that was full of water.

01:55:39.000 So is that what Mr. Beast was swimming in?

01:55:41.000 Exactly.

01:55:42.000 But where's that water coming from?

01:55:44.000 It's a water table.

01:55:45.000 Oh, there is a water table.

01:55:47.000 This shaft, I came, I brought a company.

01:55:53.000 And we did suck all the water out.

01:55:55.000 Oh.

01:55:55.000 Until he found underneath a sarcophagus and four pillars.

01:55:59.000 Oh, wow.

01:55:59.000 And this is the symbolic barrier of the God of Osiris.

01:56:02.000 Because Giza Plateau was called in the new kingdom Per-Ozer-Nebrastau.

01:56:07.000 The house of Osiris, Lord of Rastau.

01:56:11.000 Rastau means cemetery, but literally means the underground tunnels.

01:56:16.000 That Osiris is ruling.

01:56:18.000 Then Herodotus, when he came, he talked about this water under the pyramid.

01:56:22.000 It is in the shaft.

01:56:24.000 And this one beast entered inside and swam in it.

01:56:28.000 Swamming.

01:56:29.000 Okay.

01:56:30.000 You know, I met him because I wanted to convince the younger people that pyramids were not built by aliens.

01:56:36.000 That's why I took him to three million sites.

01:56:39.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:56:39.000 I don't understand the alien thing.

01:56:41.000 I think super advanced culture, super advanced civilization.

01:56:45.000 And I think the Library of Alexandria burning is probably one of the greatest disasters.

01:56:50.000 Many people in America believe that you believe in aliens.

01:56:55.000 When I talk to them that I'm coming to see you...

01:56:58.000 That I believe in aliens?

01:56:59.000 They do!

01:57:00.000 Well...

01:57:00.000 I'm not opposed to the idea of aliens existing.

01:57:03.000 There's hundreds of billions of galaxies in the known universe, each with hundreds of billions of stars.

01:57:09.000 The idea that we're uniquely alone.

01:57:11.000 You don't think there's anything out there?

01:57:14.000 Nothing.

01:57:15.000 So you don't believe in ancient civilizations capable of advanced construction.

01:57:19.000 You don't believe in aliens.

01:57:21.000 You don't believe in carbon dating.

01:57:23.000 I am a scientist.

01:57:24.000 Oh! 0.60

01:57:25.000 If you believe in something, write an article.

01:57:28.000 I understand.

01:57:28.000 Then I can read.

01:57:29.000 But don't give me a theory.

01:57:31.000 But the theory of planets containing intelligent life is...

01:57:35.000 No, no, no.

01:57:35.000 That's not true.

01:57:36.000 I have been debating Graham Hancock and Robert Bofall and John Antony West, and I told them.

01:57:42.000 From the beginning, your theory will go with the wind.

01:57:45.000 Right, but we're not talking about that theory.

01:57:47.000 We're talking about aliens being possible.

01:57:49.000 No way!

01:57:50.000 No aliens, just us.

01:57:52.000 This is the national project.

01:57:53.000 Only us in the whole universe.

01:57:54.000 If you believe in God...

01:57:55.000 Us in the whole universe?

01:57:56.000 Only us.

01:57:57.000 If you believe in God, you will do miracles.

01:58:01.000 The Egyptians believed in the afterlife, and they made this great civilization.

01:58:07.000 I'm not saying aliens made it.

01:58:08.000 I'm saying it's very possible there's something else out there in the world.

01:58:13.000 Thank you.

01:58:14.000 All right.

01:58:14.000 Thank you.

01:58:15.000 All right.

01:58:15.000 Goodbye, everybody.

01:58:16.000 Enjoyed talking to you.

01:58:17.000 I enjoyed it, too.

01:58:18.000 And I'll see you in a while.

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 14, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2321 - Dr. Zahi Hawass

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