In this episode, I sit down with a man who is a legend in the ultra running world. He is the first person to ever run the Chicago marathon and the first non-American to ever finish. He talks about how he did it, what it takes to run a marathon, and how he got to where he is today.
00:01:02.000You know, there was like a sweet spot pre-having as many kids and more family constraints and work and now life is busy, but where I do 20 miles every day.
00:01:29.000A couple of crazy dudes in the 80s decided that they're going to recreate where he ran, Pheidippides, to deliver the message.
00:01:36.000Because in that movie, you remember, 300 Spartans defended against the Persian masses, and they frame it as the difference between us having civilization and not.
00:01:45.000Had those 300 guys not died while they assembled an army and he delivered that message to King Leonidas?
00:01:50.000So when you finish this race, if you finish, it's one of the hardest races in the world.
00:01:54.000Like there's Badwater, you know Goggins, mutual buddy of ours.
00:01:58.000But there's races they say are the hardest.
00:09:48.000And with fighters, you know, there's just, especially natural fighters that aren't taking any steroids or anything, when it gets to a certain point in time, the game is over.
00:11:00.0009,000 was the record, and he got to 10,000.
00:11:05.000So he broke the record first, then some cat in Australia broke the record, beat his record, and then he just demolished that guy's record.
00:11:12.000And then I saw his thing, which was a flex, which reminded me of something I did, which was one of the highlight moments of my running career, which is, he goes, I got another personal best in the same week at a marathon.
00:11:22.000So I one time did two marathons a week apart, like six days apart.
00:12:11.000That's super impressive that you win marathons.
00:12:14.000Well, I won that one, and then six days later, six or seven, I did this other one, and I got beat by this kid who was like 22. I don't care how old I was, 30s.
00:12:21.000And he beat me, and he fell and collapsed at the finish.
00:13:53.000So I graduated high school when I was 16. I skipped a grade, all this, and then my folks got divorced, long story, and they moved back to Israel.
00:14:01.000I was born in Israel, so separately moved back to Israel, so I was a bit of a, I guess, Like, I had nobody supporting me.
00:14:07.000So when I went to college, I turned 17, I had to pay all the bills.
00:15:32.000And so that's where it kind of went from magic and I kept doing more of the mentalism, more of it.
00:15:37.000But mentalism has a very steep learning curve.
00:15:39.000If you go to an open mic and you suck, how many people get to the level of getting better, getting better, putting in the work, takes 10 years to be funny for most people, right?
00:15:49.000There's a couple of phenoms, but that's a different story.
00:15:51.000So most mentalists, they drop off because I'm just going to go back to magic tricks.
00:16:03.000Like, is the material on it difficult to find?
00:16:06.000I think it's more that people don't have the thick skin.
00:16:09.000Like, the same way you said the quitting mentality where I came back the year later, most people won't improve because you can't practice mentalism in front of a mirror.
00:17:55.000So I don't think, I would tell you right off the jump for me, that that means that your first number, you don't have to say anything yet, Iowa 2020, is smaller.
00:18:04.000That's what most people do when they're rushed.
00:18:05.000If I had given you five minutes, you would have done this different.
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00:20:53.000Again, that's drinkag1.com slash Joe Rogan.
00:20:57.000Have you ever done that to people and then withdrawed money?
00:21:37.000So, like, we're peeling through, and I know why you think you picked it, and I know that you think you gave me no information, but I'm telling you that good luck finding out how in the world could I have found out your ATM pin code.
00:28:39.000It has to do with how you feel in the moment, the emotions, the things you can position, the same way hypnosis works.
00:28:44.000So I can kind of engineer memories in a certain way, the way people remember things, the way they think, and create those moments that people talk about hopefully for years.
00:28:52.000And that's what's been, you know, I guess that's what's been the driver of my business and what's helped lead to my success.
00:31:09.000So if I didn't say, it took me a while to iterate and figure it out, but if I don't look up when I throw the cards, when I would throw the cards up and let them fall back down on my hand and not look up, the percentage would go 80, 90% that afterwards people, when they told the story...
00:31:26.000They clipped out the part of me throwing the deck.
00:32:02.000And what is it like when you're thinking this, when you're thinking I'm going to get people to remember something, how are you doing this?
00:32:09.000like what's your intention when you're trying to devise like what to what to do well I guess I guess my intention why at the end of the day I'm a I want to be the best in the world at what I do.
00:34:59.000It is a rematch nine months in the making.
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00:35:08.000It's a huge night of fights headlined by a rematch between Marab Dwavishwili and Sugar Sean O'Malley as O'Malley looks to avenge the unanimous decision that saw Dwavishwili take the bantamweight title back in September.
00:35:22.000First time betting on UFC at DraftKings?
00:36:52.000So for my day-to-day living, which is I do a lot of really big corporate events, and then I do, I guess, a lot of private parties, things of that sort, performances, like live performances.
00:37:02.000Typically, I structure it the same way I think anybody would.
00:37:05.000I want to go out the gate very strong.
00:37:07.000I want to very instantly establish credibility.
00:37:22.000I like the thought of, I'm going to prove to you that this is something incredible and that it's something you're interested in emotionally.
00:39:51.000And so I was thinking about how I would do that for two years.
00:39:55.000Two years of thinking of every single way that could work, not work, go wrong, everything about it was, you know, he thought I went in the room and it's so simple.
00:40:04.000That was two years of me thinking about it during every run.
00:40:07.000So for two years, you knew you were going to do this or you knew that you were...
00:43:30.000They work by themselves as long as you follow the instructions, like IKEA furniture, like step one, step two, step three, as long as you can Got it.
00:43:42.000You have to know how to finesse people you have to influence people effectively and so That same stuff within magic almost always applies to props.
00:43:51.000You need a thing to do the trick Now it could be a regular deck of cards in which case you're looting slights, but also there's gimmicks Right?
00:44:28.000And I should have been out that day, but anyway, I got stuck all weekend, and I watched them with cards, and it was like I had trained my whole life for this moment, where I walked up record scratch to like 40 dudes, and I go, can I see those cards?
00:44:41.000And it was like, everyone looked at me like, what's this guy about to do?
00:44:43.000And I just did card tricks for the next eight hours.
00:44:46.000When I went to take a shower, I'm thinking of the show Oz.
00:44:49.000I'm like, oh my god, right now I had protection.
00:44:51.000I went to the shower, Mecosta County Jail in Michigan, and literally I had people being like, go take a shower.
00:47:20.000It would have been a misdemeanor, and I know they're lying to me.
00:47:23.000I'm not a mentalist then, and I'm inebriated, but I can read the room, didn't say a word, knew this was BS, and then they separated us when we went to general population.
00:50:37.000Well, I'm more on now because we're doing something, but if I go on certain platforms of TV and I know I want to be slow, then I'll just calibrate down.
00:51:01.000At the end of a show, immediately, as quickly as I can afterwards, probably some people record shows.
00:51:06.000I hate re-watching myself on corporate shows and live shows.
00:51:09.000I don't mind TV stuff, but for some reason those, if I've repeated material, because it's like muscle memory, you've done this before, it irks me to watch again.
00:51:17.000But I write down everything that happened.
00:51:21.000Paragraphs about everything that happened, which is a useful life hack because I remember it all, but also I get repeat bookings a lot.
00:51:28.000So if somebody brings me back, now it's like a real magic trick where I know everything about what happened.
00:51:32.000And if you even just recount stuff from two years ago, people think you have superhuman memory or, People's number one subjects are themselves, their family, and their friends.
00:51:44.000The more you can do that and give them back stuff about them, the more they're like, wow, what a caring individual, right?
00:51:50.000Being a good listener, a lot of times just repeating back to people what they just said.
00:53:05.000I have like plan A, B, C, D, E. I have just a long list of what everything will go like a pick your own adventure and typically I know where to go with it and then controlling your body and your tension is everything, right?
00:53:21.000So you're a hunter you step on a branch Animal hears it.
00:56:22.000When you do that, everything else in life becomes easier.
00:56:26.000The lows that you experience when you do something like that, Is a way you cannot fake in any other way.
00:56:34.000You cannot test who you really are than putting yourself.
00:56:37.000You could be on the couch saying, what would I do and be tough guy and you pretend to be Goggins or Hanes.
00:56:41.000But until you get in that level where you're miserable, you haven't slept in a day, you have all that, there might be another way to push yourself, but that's where you learn who am I really at my core.
00:56:50.000And then when you go back to normal life, everything else, the volume is turned down.
00:56:53.000And when I come back from those races, all I do is get a mirror to put up to see who am I really.
00:56:59.000When things are at their lowest and when I want to quit and I don't.
00:57:05.000Yeah, I think that's a very strong statement.
00:57:07.000I think one of the things that you just said there, I've said a bunch of times, is that if you can work out really hard and push your body and push your mind, it makes other forms of adversity that you face during the day much easier.
00:57:20.000And I think that's one of the reasons why so many people are so filled with anxiety.
00:57:23.000It seems like that's such a simple solution that most people don't want to accept it.
00:57:33.000But everybody that I know that does what I'm talking about, everybody I know that pushes themselves very hard in the gym or running or doing yoga or whatever, they're the most happy and the most relaxed, and they're able to face adversity throughout the day much easier than people that don't take care of their body, that don't eat well, that don't exercise, and don't experience any voluntary physical discomfort.
00:58:28.000Again, I don't want to speak out of turn like medical, but they've shown over and over that exercise is just, it's almost as effective in certain regards and like just being a certain level of healthiness than antidepressants.
00:59:09.000You can't deny that, and there's a reason why this sedentary sort of generation that we're experiencing right now because of phones and tablets and all the – It's the most depressed.
01:00:00.000But occasionally I'll find something really interesting on social media, so it's like, boy, I don't want to not know that.
01:00:06.000I don't want to not, like, find out about some new scientific breakthrough or some new thing that's going on.
01:00:12.000One of the things that I've found that helps me, though, is instead of social media, I just have a bunch of stuff that I curate in my Google News app.
01:00:21.000And so I'll just, like, find any sort of scientific breakthrough or some weird discovery.
01:00:27.000A lot of really interesting things about ancient civilizations.
01:00:30.000I just have that stuff curated, so it just shows up on my feed.
01:00:37.000It's great, because it's like, that way I can find stuff out without having to go and just hopefully randomly run into it on X or on Instagram.
01:00:48.000That's how that helps a lot terrible with X a lot of my friends get news on X. I'm just like oh A lot of negativity, and for Instagram for years, Like, where I'm like, why am I getting off of this and feeling worse than I did getting on it?
01:01:08.000And so I really had to flip a switch in my brain to, I got rid of that.
01:01:13.000Anything that I don't like, I don't show.
01:01:15.000and I stop focusing on what I don't have and I focus on what I do have.
01:03:16.000Like, my mindset is completely evolved of why would I think of what people don't?
01:03:19.000And everybody, if you're alive, you should be happy.
01:03:22.000You do not know what tomorrow will be.
01:03:23.000And I know that's all like new agey, whatever, but that's...
01:03:28.000We were just talking about that in the green room last night at the comedy club, about the problem with gratitude is that too many people have co-opted it.
01:05:18.000and this is why I said it's stupid, it doesn't get Instead, if you can shift your focus and see someone doing something, recognize that these tinges of jealousy that you feel are completely natural, but realize that to get the most out of this, you have to switch that in your mind to inspiration.
01:05:42.000And that person's success that's kind of freaking you out now becomes fuel.
01:05:57.000And in fact, it occupies all of your precious time with complaining when instead, if you can manage it and it can be managed, you can turn that into inspiration and then go out and try to do something.
01:06:11.000Either focus more on what you're doing, realize maybe I'm doing this.
01:06:17.000It's not as efficient or maybe I can have more energy.
01:07:27.000I was getting to this weird, precarious position, which happens to a lot of artists, where you get into something, whether it's music or stand-up comedy, because you love it as a fan.
01:08:07.000Even if you hate someone and they're funny, you should be laughing because it's good for you.
01:08:12.000Yeah, and I find that it's over time, it's almost selfish, but it's selfless at the same time, is I like to show love to people coming up as much as possible and try to highlight them and try to kind of… That's for the new people that are kind of doing what I do, doing different things.
01:09:11.000And then always the part else is there's always some sort of a end point like the world's gonna end but it didn't because we prayed so hard so we're back baby.
01:09:44.000Yeah, cult leaders never see the writing on the wall.
01:09:47.000The cult leader has like a very unique where, again, there's a fine line between if you looked at a path of my life.
01:09:54.000Again, I don't see myself cult leader, but a con man is very similar in many regards to what I do because that's using these skills in what I would describe as – Don't you think they're the same thing?
01:12:18.000It's also the dynamic of you being in control, which I think you talked about earlier, I think is, for whatever reason, imperative when you're speaking to people.
01:12:28.000You have to be in control for them to let you kind of guide everything.
01:12:33.000You don't want other people, you don't want to ask questions and have everybody like free to talk and have it be loose.
01:12:51.000The number one salesperson organization is the one who gets you to sell yourself.
01:12:56.000They're bending over backwards to be like, I gotta do business with you, right?
01:12:59.000You get someone to the point where, at the end, you don't have to hard close.
01:13:04.000Every organization I work for, and I go in there and show you how to do sales training 101, it's going to be the person who gets The other person to sell themself.
01:13:39.000I have three girls, two boys, and I found when I named our girls, well, we named it together, obviously, the naming of the girls was far harder than the boys.
01:13:48.000When you named your daughters, was it agreed upon?
01:26:57.000there's microphones everywhere we just asked him to think of his first crush but he did like someone fictional Maybe say I'm in the middle of a show.
01:33:44.000Do you think that there's people that knew this shit back in the days of witches?
01:33:47.000They figured out some of the powers, maybe?
01:33:49.000I think that 100% psychics of the past used a lot of the same techniques I'm using.
01:33:55.000Because when I watch psychics, and people always tell me at certain things, they tell me like, oh, you know, I saw a psychic do this and this and this.
01:34:02.000And I hear it and I go to myself, you know, I could do that same trick and I could...
01:34:08.000I'm doing this right now with an ethical compass versus if I go, oh, I'm getting this and I thought about this and this is what happened with your dad and you're like, oh my God, you know, I'm like, oh, it's only 25 grand more to have a private session.
01:37:24.000Like when I do a corporate event, I learn in and out your business.
01:37:27.000And when I go up there, I sneak in the medicine.
01:37:31.000You're actually, your people aren't just seeing a show, they're getting messaging and they're getting it in a way where they don't tune out because they don't realize they're being spoken to.
01:40:22.000So he's born Thomas William Simpson, and he renamed himself, for some reason, Tony Corinda, a variation of the surname Conrady, when he began working as a mentalist.
01:40:32.000In 1950, he opened up a shop where he sold all manner of stage magic goods, but catered especially to mentalists.
01:40:39.000He later took over the magic shop on Oxford Street.
01:40:42.000The shop was at street level and thus catered mainly to the regular public so that many of the items sold were either practical jokes or beginner's tricks.
01:40:49.000But items for semi-professional magicians and hobbyists were also sold.
01:40:53.000Around the same period, Corinda had the magic concession in Hambly's Toy Shop on Regent Street.
01:41:02.000So the book, 13 Steps to Mentalism, was in 1961.
01:41:06.000So he wrote a series of 13 booklets on mentalism between 1956 and 1958, each one dealing with a different aspect of mentalism or allied art.
01:41:24.000And see, it's since come to be the Essential Mentalism reference book.
01:41:28.000But again, you're going to have a big problem because you're going to read that book and if you make it through to the end, which God bless you if you can, you're going to be like, yeah, but how the hell did you do all this stuff?
01:41:36.000You're going to get to the end of it and be like, so that's baby steps.
01:41:40.000And then you've got to get to the next level.
01:41:42.000I'm not thinking I'm going to get all the information from that, but I'm curious as to like...
01:42:36.000Well, I don't know if he's got the paywall.
01:42:38.000Again, I don't want to be controversial, but they're holding, in many instances, in that form of communication, the person who knows the information is holding the letters.
01:42:59.000So a two-person code act is like a mentalist thing with two people.
01:43:02.000There's a few that are the best in the world, Avacyn's, Mine to Mine in Dubai, like a few really good ones who've done this.
01:43:08.000And what they do is they can be blindfolded in a different area, and anything you hand to them, anything you say, the other person knows it.
01:43:17.000They just look at your credit card and they'll guess the credit card numbers.
01:43:19.000And the way that's being done is they're communicating to each other based on It's the best codec ever without speaking.
01:43:29.000And you'll watch it and you'll be like, there's no way they're communicating, but they are.
01:43:32.000And so it looks like telepathy, but it's not.
01:43:35.000You get them in the room of scientists, you'll fool every scientist under the sun.
01:43:40.000What they're doing is like not bulletproof at all with the kids.
01:43:43.000And again, God bless, if I had a child in that condition, I for not one moment wouldn't want a solution.
01:43:48.000And I would want something to know that they're not, that they're in there and I could talk to them.
01:43:51.000And I don't want to speak out of turn.
01:43:52.000But from the videos I've seen, I can explain that in a minute.
01:43:55.000They're moving things around and positioning the letters.
01:43:58.000If you do a double-blind study where the person does not know the word that they're trying to communicate, I'm not even saying psychic, just don't tell them the word, the person holding it, and only show the word to the person who should be saying it, right?
01:44:13.000If you're the autistic child, show them the word so that I see it, and then have them type that word in.
01:51:53.000Have a mentalist and maybe a scientist involved.
01:51:55.000And a mentalist is better than a scientist because scientists, they can watch me and they'll be like, I don't know how he's doing it, right?
01:59:17.000And last year, for my oldest son, who was, at the time, had just turned eight, I did his school second graders, and dude, they ate me alive.
02:02:08.000Right, and also when you bring someone along and when you have that, like, just, you drop just an amazing line.
02:02:14.000Like, just there's so many, I mean, listen, I consume so much comedy, but like, I love watching the rhythm, seeing where people go with it, the people that are more short form, like punch delivery, right?
02:02:31.000Man, some of these guys are just like, you can't see where the joke is going to come and how you just squeeze every bit of juice out of the orange and the good callbacks.
02:02:38.000I think the ultimate hypnotist is David Tell.
02:03:34.000I can't tell you, but right when you said this friend of mine, I knew you were going to protect your parks, and I said, could it have been Ari?
02:03:40.000And I immediately knew it was going to be Shane Gills, because neither of those two would have said, definitely not Mark, would have said, kill him, he's a witch.
02:05:20.000There's a series of steps on how I do it, kind of like a chess player.
02:05:24.000You get a chess player, you get Magnus Carlsen, you get the best chess player in the world, they can literally blindfold play 30 people, and I'm like, how are you doing that, right?
02:05:46.000What I've focused on is one thing, is assessing what people are thinking and what they give away that they don't think they're giving away.
02:06:05.000So there's like a, I wouldn't call it a brain trust, but there's people I bounce ideas off of when I'm creating, kind of like you'd punch up jokes, where they're...
02:06:16.000There's creators and then there's performers.
02:06:55.000But like when you are with her and I'm sure like Jack Gantz, now she's a huge amazing crew of writers that I'm sure get things out of her.
02:07:02.000And I know a lot of like music producers, but...
02:07:06.000So what, again, I think is differentiating.
02:07:09.000There's a lot of mentalists, but it's a really small number that are the singer-songwriter, the creator-performer, who have the thoughts and are constantly doing new stuff.
02:07:46.000If I'm not putting stuff online, if I'm not going like, crowd work the Matt Reif model, who by the way I love that guy, Now if you want to blow up on social, you've got to be doing this.
02:07:57.000Or do current events, do topical, do things you can burn.
02:08:00.000But I can't put my real act out there.
02:08:12.000Right, but it's interesting because I wonder how many people you can bounce ideas off of.
02:08:17.000it seems like you're kind of a lone wolf.
02:08:19.000Like in that world, I don't think there's I mean, there's a lot of comedians.
02:08:23.000Like, I could call a lot of comedians right now and bounce an idea off of.
02:08:28.000There's way less mentalists and there's way more magicians and then of the group of mentalists if you were to do the core one and again This is not subjective.
02:08:36.000I'm much more like objected the way we looked at names how many of them have done Certain volume of TV appearance certain volume of views like which ones are getting the attention of the world in the zeitgeist It's a very very small number because This is like an attention economy.
02:08:51.000You have to do stuff that's compelling to the viewer.
02:08:54.000And for me, I don't think about myself.
02:10:17.000This guy, wealthy beyond belief, stories beyond belief, he could make it ego-driven, and he could have been telling me, oh, this, and I would have been hanging on my every word.
02:10:25.000But instead, he wanted to know more about me, and he kept asking me questions.
02:10:49.000which is you don't know when you meet somebody who they'll be or what they'll be or what can But why I've had so many TV appearances is when I go into a place, I'm going to do stuff for the security guard.
02:11:01.000I'm going to do something for the person who irons my shirt.
02:11:03.000I'm going to leave that place like a bomb went off of amazement where everyone around there now likes you.
02:11:08.000And you don't know when they'll jump ship to another network, to another thing.
02:11:11.000And if they like you, sales 101, they're going to want to keep doing business with you.
02:11:15.000And so those people become your champions elsewhere.
02:11:18.000And there's kind of a lesson where he could have talked about himself the whole time.
02:12:27.000And then he had, like, he, but he was interesting because, I don't know if you get this, but I get, like, the 20 questions is what I call it, air quotes.
02:12:48.000Mine is always, I'm doing like a sound check for a gig, and there was like, alright, so we got this, we got this, and I go, don't you know that we have that?
02:15:32.000How is that buttoned up tight where nothing gets out ever?
02:15:37.000Well, for 50 years, you're telling me there's a basement somewhere in this country, eight stories down, where they've got those things and no one else knows who's credible and can release it?
02:16:12.000I think, you know, we had Jesse Michaels on yesterday who has this amazing show on YouTube, probably the best YouTube show on aliens and UFOs and UAPs.
02:16:22.000And he's very agnostic in his thinking and he's very objective.
02:16:27.000And he also is very, very, very thorough as far as his understanding of the information.
02:17:15.000You know, he's not a, I know this is true.
02:17:18.000He thinks it's possible that it is both United States government secret projects that people are seeing, and there's probably quite a few of them.
02:17:25.000We actually pulled a few of them up and showed some of them that look like UFOs.
02:17:29.000Probably is part of what people are seeing.
02:17:32.000But he thinks it's also probable that there's some other things.
02:17:36.000And these other things could be from anywhere.
02:17:39.000And then there's just the Fermi paradox.
02:17:40.000Like, if they're all out there, where are they?
02:17:52.000You know, and then there's just like weird Peruvian mummies that we went over, these tridactyl mummies that they take cat scans of and you see the tissue and the bones and, you know, they were all found in...
02:18:08.000What's the kind of earth that they found that these things are?
02:19:45.000So that's, I don't, my likeliest thing is I don't think there's any biological beings or aliens.
02:19:50.000I think you've just got automated drones in essence that are running patterns that have some sort of, like, I don't know, that makes way more sense.
02:20:00.000It's what we do with, you know, probes.
02:20:03.000You know, with the James Webb Telescope, a lot of different things that we use.
02:20:07.000We just send a machine out and get information from it.
02:20:10.000And then also, I think at a certain point in time, we're being realistic about what we're doing right now.
02:20:15.000We're going to have biological beings and then we're going to have some kind of digital being.
02:20:20.000We're going to have some sort of a – whether it's – Technology beyond our wildest dreams is a thousand years away from now, right?
02:20:41.000A thousand years away, we have a god, right?
02:20:43.000So if you extrapolate where we're at now with quantum computing and the ability to calculate things, that if you turn the entire universe, We're talking about nuts.
02:21:22.000So what are we talking about when we're dealing with 31,000 years?
02:21:26.000So if conceivably a life form has existed and gone through the same stages as us without catastrophes, without nuclear war, without all the things that could trip us up, we could be dealing with – I had an idea that I wondered.
02:21:46.000I've always thought, what if ideas are life forms?
02:21:51.000Because we think of life as being it has to breathe, it has to have cells, it has to...
02:22:05.000And the ideas compound upon each other.
02:22:08.000The more people working on these ideas, the more competition, the more the ideas will flourish, and the more the ideas will be more complex and more efficient versions of this idea.
02:22:20.000But it has to start as a creative thought inside someone's head.
02:22:24.000And either a creative thought that you can apply to existing creative thoughts, or a completely unique one, like Francis Crick.
02:22:32.000Figuring out certain aspects of biology or certain aspects of the quantum field, whatever they're doing that's a breakthrough thing.
02:23:04.000Well, that's what it gets really weird when people there's a lot of people that are deciding now that to approach it Not consciousness is seeing that these things exist.
02:23:20.000That they only exist when you're interacting with them.
02:23:27.000Some of the stuff, when you read that, like I've read books about string theory, about quantum physics, it's just, they're too, it's too hard to process in the real world when you're like the table, but the table's actually empty space.
02:25:12.000Like, how does somebody come up with something is fascinating to me.
02:25:15.000And one of his recent songs was Blinding Lights by The Weeknd.
02:25:19.000You know, I want such a massive hit and I just I love that song and I just like just like perfect sounds like a movie track in my mind And how did you do that?
02:25:27.000Like how you know, where did you start?
02:25:34.000And he just walked me through like He had a vision we have this we have like all this stuff that we sit down and then the first the music then this I'm like just wow, it's so amazing to create something like that that A billion people now listen to number one in every country in the world.
02:25:48.000It's like, how do you manufacture something so kind of perfect that everyone in the world likes it?
02:25:56.000And is there a format you know it's gonna be the hit before it is the hit?
02:25:59.000That to me is the most, like, how many bands get stuck for the rest of their life playing a song that they frickin'hate, that they didn't know was gonna be their, Yeah.
02:26:29.000That's kind of the difference, though, between musicians and anybody else, because musicians, you want to hear the same thing over and over again.
02:26:35.000I have that a little bit, where if I get clients who book me over and over, I say to them, do you want me to do something different?
02:28:35.000Mine isn't necessarily suggestible, but mine is a maze where every time you hit a roadblock, I'm moving you around until I get you to the spot where you go through.
02:28:45.000And so that's why you asked me why I didn't do this.