The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2348 - Lukas Nelson

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan experience.

00:00:06.000 Join my day, Joe Rogan Podcast my night!

00:00:12.000 What up?

00:00:13.000 Lucas, what's up?

00:00:15.000 Good to talk to you, man.

00:00:16.000 Thanks for being here.

00:00:19.000 I gotta tell you, you know, when I heard Willie Nelson's kid plays music, there's a thing that you always do, and I have to admit it, you do it like when the son of a great man, you always assume, well, he's probably mediocre.

00:00:35.000 You know what I mean?

00:00:36.000 And then you performed at McConaughey's that charity function thing, and you fucking killed it, man.

00:00:44.000 You blew me away.

00:00:46.000 It was incredible.

00:00:47.000 And I was like, wow.

00:00:49.000 It was really cool to see, man.

00:00:51.000 It was really exciting.

00:00:53.000 It was really fun.

00:00:54.000 You were the highlight of the night, man.

00:00:56.000 You really were.

00:00:57.000 It's moments like those where I started to gain confidence.

00:01:02.000 You know, I'd have, over the years, I'd go out and play.

00:01:06.000 I'd play my songs that I've written.

00:01:08.000 And I'd get crowds that would do that.

00:01:12.000 And so that gave me the confidence to keep going.

00:01:16.000 And I first started playing music in order to get closer to my father.

00:01:20.000 Oh, wow.

00:01:21.000 You know what I mean?

00:01:22.000 So he would be gone all the time.

00:01:24.000 Right.

00:01:25.000 And I'd be missing him.

00:01:28.000 And so in order to get close to him, I figured I needed to speak the same musical language.

00:01:34.000 And so I learned Young, and I wrote a song, Young, that's on the new album, actually, I got it.

00:01:41.000 It's called You Were It.

00:01:42.000 It's the first song I ever wrote when I was 11.

00:01:45.000 And my dad loved it so much that he covered it at the time, and he put it out on his album back in 2004 called It Always Will Be.

00:01:55.000 The album was called It Always Will Be.

00:01:58.000 And that gave me the confidence at a young age.

00:02:00.000 Chris Christofferson came up to me and he's like, man, you don't have a choice but to be a songwriter.

00:02:05.000 And so I had all this inspiration at a young age.

00:02:09.000 Kind of like an athlete at a certain point.

00:02:11.000 You kind of have to look at like, oh, well, if I have a talent at this, I have connections in the industry, I need to work like I was going to go to the Olympics on this because it's something that I can do that will make it so that I never have to rely on my family or my father for anything.

00:02:31.000 Right.

00:02:31.000 You know, my whole goal in life is to discover who I am as an individual.

00:02:39.000 Is that a part of the difficulty of growing up with an incredibly famous father?

00:02:45.000 I think the, you know, Viktor Frankl has a book, a very famous book called Man's Search for Meaning.

00:02:54.000 And it's about Auschwitz, and he was an Auschwitz survivor, and he wrote about what was the common denominator in terms of people who persevered and survived in these camps.

00:03:08.000 And dignity and meaning were the common denominators generally.

00:03:14.000 And so finding what you mean in this life to yourself, it doesn't have to mean anything to anyone else.

00:03:20.000 And I think that's where, for me, I've lived my whole life trying to discover who I meant to myself so that at the moment of my death, I can look back and say, I did something that I enjoyed, that was meaningful, that gave me a sense of purpose.

00:03:38.000 Yeah, there's both a blessing and a burden to being the child of someone who's incredibly famous at a thing that you're trying to do.

00:03:50.000 You know, like there's a lot of sons of athletes, for instance, that live in their father's shadow, and very few of them ever rise to the level that their father was at.

00:03:50.000 Sure.

00:04:02.000 Sure.

00:04:03.000 I think for me, I was never trying to be as great as him.

00:04:06.000 I was only trying to be close to him.

00:04:08.000 Because more than anything, my father's a great human being.

00:04:12.000 He's a well-rounded, kind, empathetic human.

00:04:16.000 And I'm truly grateful to be his and my mother's son.

00:04:24.000 You know, because I have a good family.

00:04:26.000 I'm lucky.

00:04:27.000 That's awesome.

00:04:28.000 I have a good parent.

00:04:29.000 So what I was trying to do was just be closer to him.

00:04:32.000 And as a little kid, the best thing my mom ever did was when I was like earlier, I was probably five or six years old.

00:04:42.000 And my brother had just passed away not too long before this, actually.

00:04:47.000 And I would cry every time my dad would leave, you know.

00:04:52.000 And my mom sat me down one time and said, it tears him apart when you cry like this because he doesn't want to leave.

00:04:58.000 He's going out there.

00:04:59.000 He's making people happy.

00:05:00.000 He's giving people joy.

00:05:01.000 And he's doing what he came here on this earth to do.

00:05:04.000 And he's supporting this family.

00:05:06.000 And so the support that my mother had for him, at that moment, I never cried again.

00:05:12.000 I was able to let go of that idea and then just from that point on, work towards creating what would make me happy in my life and give me the same joy and then be able to take care of a family, hopefully.

00:05:25.000 You know, one of my greatest sources of pride is that I haven't had to ask my parents for anything.

00:05:30.000 I bought my own house.

00:05:33.000 I went and did Starsborn and I got, you know, I mean, I've been able to make myself a living and I think that makes my parents proud.

00:05:42.000 It makes my dad proud.

00:05:43.000 And that's what I've always wanted to do.

00:05:45.000 That's been my whole life is wanting to make them proud.

00:05:49.000 That's awesome.

00:05:50.000 Well, it's a great motivation, you know, for sure, especially when you have great parents that try to get a lot of people.

00:05:56.000 I'm lucky in that way.

00:05:57.000 You know, I know a lot of people who have broken homes and grew up, and even I caught dad at a good time.

00:06:04.000 I mean, my dad was 55 or so when he had me, you know, and so he had already been through a lot of his demons and gotten through them and faced them, you know, and was still going through them at the time that I was born.

00:06:17.000 But he had come out of, you know, a life of habit and sort of formed the ones that would take him at that point to where he is now at 92 years old.

00:06:27.000 And so I got a good version of dad, you know, who had grown since.

00:06:33.000 And so, man, I'm the luckiest guy in the world.

00:06:37.000 I feel like I was able to be exposed to a lot of great music, a lot of great mentors, you know, in my life.

00:06:44.000 And I'm also lucky that I, at a young age, I'm grateful to my younger child, to myself as a young child for having the wisdom to say, all right, work hard now, forget about parties, forget about hanging out,

00:07:00.000 work hard eight hours, ten hours a day, practice your guitar, write all the time, sing all the time, so that when you get to a certain point in life, you'll have something to show for it, you know, something that you can leave behind that's yours.

00:07:15.000 Yeah.

00:07:16.000 That's awesome, man.

00:07:18.000 You know, that's what most people in this life want.

00:07:21.000 They want a purpose.

00:07:22.000 You know, they want something that means something both to them and to other people.

00:07:22.000 Yeah.

00:07:27.000 Exactly.

00:07:28.000 It's hard to find.

00:07:28.000 Yeah.

00:07:29.000 It's hard to find a purpose.

00:07:31.000 You know, that is something that I've always had growing up, and I think it's because I was, you know, again, I'm grateful to that younger kid.

00:07:39.000 Sometimes I feel like he's wiser than I am now.

00:07:42.000 You know, that younger self is like almost, you know, and now that I'm sober, I mean, I quit smoking weed.

00:07:51.000 I quit drinking.

00:07:52.000 When did you do all that?

00:07:54.000 Really around the pandemic.

00:07:56.000 Yeah.

00:07:57.000 That's usually when a lot of people started.

00:07:59.000 Yeah, it went the opposite way.

00:08:01.000 I started meditating twice a day.

00:08:03.000 The only thing I'll do now is mushrooms every once in a while to check in with myself and just kind of make sure that I'm like mushrooms is like taking a nice good hose to your soul and just kind of like you know clean out all the bullshit.

00:08:16.000 Clean out all the bullshit.

00:08:18.000 I feel like they should be legal.

00:08:18.000 Yeah.

00:08:22.000 Yeah, 100%.

00:08:23.000 If I could talk Trump into one thing, that might be the one thing.

00:08:23.000 Really?

00:08:29.000 I had this conversation with Paul Stamitz the other day.

00:08:31.000 I love Paul Stamitz.

00:08:32.000 He's amazing.

00:08:33.000 Yeah, he's great.

00:08:34.000 I just saw him at the Dead Show, the Sphere Show.

00:08:37.000 Oh, yeah.

00:08:38.000 Oh, that's cool.

00:08:39.000 That's cool.

00:08:40.000 Have you been to his place?

00:08:41.000 He invited me to his place up there.

00:08:43.000 It's supposed to be amazing.

00:08:44.000 I was just reading an email from him today inviting me to his place.

00:08:48.000 That's awesome.

00:08:49.000 Yeah, he's a prepper.

00:08:51.000 He's ready for the apocalypse.

00:08:52.000 Yeah.

00:08:53.000 Well, it might be a good idea.

00:08:57.000 I mean, maybe.

00:08:58.000 I don't know.

00:08:59.000 I think we're going to be okay.

00:09:00.000 I do, too.

00:09:01.000 I do.

00:09:02.000 I mean, I think the feeling that we might not be okay, though, is a great motivator.

00:09:07.000 We should always be checking in with ourselves and asking ourselves, are we going too far to certain extremes?

00:09:13.000 Yeah.

00:09:13.000 Well, that was the part of the conversation that we had.

00:09:15.000 You know, we're like, is there a thing that could really help the world?

00:09:19.000 And it sounds so cliche and hippie, especially someone who's never done mushrooms.

00:09:25.000 But I think that might be the thing.

00:09:27.000 You know, even if it's just like small doses, just a little something to alleviate anxiety, bring people closer together, make them understand that there's more to life than conflict and bullshit.

00:09:38.000 And most of your conflict is bullshit.

00:09:41.000 Most of it is nonsense.

00:09:42.000 Most of it's unnecessary.

00:09:43.000 Yeah, my dad always says 99% of the things you worry about never come true.

00:09:48.000 You know, and it's just a matter of, yeah, I mean, it is sort of a cliche.

00:09:54.000 I read The Power of Now, which is Ecart Tole, when I was like 13.

00:10:01.000 I went to school next to a Buddhist temple.

00:10:03.000 And so I'd grew up with my dad teaching me the Lord's Prayer that I'd say every night.

00:10:07.000 And then I'd go to this Buddhist temple and hang with these monks.

00:10:11.000 Really?

00:10:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:10:12.000 Where I was in Maui.

00:10:13.000 I grew up part-time in Austin.

00:10:14.000 I was born in Austin.

00:10:16.000 I was in Maui.

00:10:17.000 There was a Buddhist temple in a Buddhist temple right near where I was going to school at the time.

00:10:23.000 So after school every day, I'd sit with these monks.

00:10:26.000 And just the vibe of that is powerful, the chanting, the energy around that.

00:10:32.000 The presence, though, that they have, their whole goal, obviously, is to just be purely present.

00:10:39.000 And so while that sounds like a cliche, I truly believe that that's an important thing, to let go of the battle of positive and negative, that in the mental space, that's all that exists, is duality.

00:10:57.000 Well, to find a true path, you have to avoid being pushed and pulled in a bunch of directions that are totally unnecessary.

00:11:06.000 And sometimes you get sort of preoccupied or captivated by the push and the pull of bullshit.

00:11:14.000 Well, and there is a manipulation that happens on purpose.

00:11:21.000 I have a song called Turn Off the News and Build a Garden.

00:11:25.000 Did you ever hear that song?

00:11:26.000 No, I haven't heard that one.

00:11:27.000 You want me to play it for you?

00:11:28.000 Fuck yeah, yeah, play it.

00:11:30.000 This is a song called Turn Off the News and Build a Garden.

00:11:33.000 And I wrote it because...

00:11:37.000 Yeah, and I just, I was just, the news cycle, I mean, there's a difference between being informed and being constantly captured by this.

00:11:46.000 Overwhelmed.

00:11:47.000 Yes.

00:11:55.000 Got a tune for all your listeners.

00:12:04.000 I believe that every heart is kind.

00:12:10.000 Some are just a little underused.

00:12:15.000 Hatred is a symptom of the times.

00:12:21.000 Lost in these uneducated blues.

00:12:26.000 I just want to love you while I can.

00:12:32.000 All these other thoughts have me confused.

00:12:38.000 I don't need to try to understand.

00:12:44.000 Maybe I'll turn off the fucking news.

00:12:48.000 Turn off the news and build a garden.

00:12:52.000 Just my neighborhood and me.

00:12:55.000 We might feel a bit less hardened.

00:12:58.000 We might feel a bit more free.

00:13:00.000 turn off the news and raise the kids.

00:13:04.000 Give them something to believe in.

00:13:07.000 Teach them how to be good people.

00:13:10.000 Give them hope that they can see.

00:13:16.000 Hope that they can see.

00:13:22.000 Turn off the news and build a garden with me.

00:13:28.000 That's awesome.

00:13:29.000 Yeah, so I've always felt that way.

00:13:31.000 And I think that there's action is so important.

00:13:37.000 Being a part of your community, being a part of decisions that are made.

00:13:41.000 I think that's huge.

00:13:42.000 I think local communities are really important.

00:13:44.000 I think local town meetings, understanding where you're going, and understanding where your neighborhood is going and getting to know your neighbors, because it's really hard to have any hatred when you understand and know your neighbor.

00:14:02.000 You know what I mean?

00:14:03.000 And you know the people that are around you.

00:14:06.000 And so I think that, yeah, that's kind of where I come from.

00:14:10.000 I just think like, you know, it's important to get out there.

00:14:14.000 And I put my, I usually try not to stand on soap boxes, though, you know, man.

00:14:19.000 If I have something to say, I'll put it in my music, you know, and I'll put it out there.

00:14:25.000 Well, that's the best way to get it to people anyway.

00:14:28.000 Yeah, look at Bob Dylan, Masters of War.

00:14:30.000 I mean, that's the military-industrial complex right there.

00:14:34.000 That's an incredible song.

00:14:36.000 Only a pawn in their game is the history of racism and how that started.

00:14:43.000 It is pretty much a controlled political ploy to get the poor blacks and the poor whites to blame each other for everything happening. 0.75

00:14:53.000 You ever hear Bill Hicks bit about the news?

00:14:55.000 I was just listening to Bill Hicks.

00:14:57.000 That's so funny.

00:14:59.000 He's got that great bit about the news, like war, famine, disease, AIDS.

00:15:03.000 You go outside, chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp.

00:15:05.000 Where the fuck is all this shit happening?

00:15:07.000 I think Ted Turner's making this shit up because his wife won't fuck him. 0.99

00:15:12.000 Well, look, I think it's out there.

00:15:15.000 I think it's always been out there.

00:15:16.000 But I think the way to combat it is to build strong local community.

00:15:26.000 You know, and build, you know, that's why I think regenerative farming is really important.

00:15:26.000 Yeah.

00:15:32.000 And trying to, and then, you know, voting for people that will support local agriculture and properly grown food and properly, you know, like sourced food.

00:15:46.000 And these things are very important, you know.

00:15:48.000 Yeah, that's certainly important for a community if you know exactly where your food's coming from.

00:15:52.000 I think we're just so, it's not, you know, in the Bill Hicks days, it was just the news.

00:15:57.000 But now I think the real problem that people have today is social media.

00:16:02.000 And, you know, I never, I very rarely, if I post things, I just post them and then get out of there.

00:16:08.000 I don't read anything.

00:16:10.000 And I very rarely read social media anymore.

00:16:13.000 And since making that decision to kind of stay away from it, I think occasionally I have to dip in just to see what's, because I'm a comedian.

00:16:20.000 It's part of the problem.

00:16:21.000 Sure, you got to know.

00:16:22.000 I need to know what people are doing, why everyone's so mad, what's happening.

00:16:28.000 But there's too many people that are on it all day long, and I think it's poison.

00:16:34.000 I really do.

00:16:35.000 I think it's bad for your mind.

00:16:36.000 I think it generally attracts negativity.

00:16:41.000 I think most of the stuff that people post is negative, and they're complaining all the time.

00:16:46.000 And then that gets into your mind, and that gets into whatever your headset is, your headspace.

00:16:52.000 And then you start thinking the way these people are thinking.

00:16:56.000 I like to be informed on what I'm talking about.

00:16:59.000 I really do.

00:17:00.000 And that takes a lot of time.

00:17:02.000 It's not something that I can look at something online that comes up and just have an immediate opinion on.

00:17:08.000 Sure.

00:17:09.000 And I think that really I'm just like I don't know where I stand on half the issues that are out there because I'm I'm I you know I see a lot of I have to sift through most of the bullshit to find it like so really where it ends up happening is that by the time I get to the voting booth I'm hoping that I'm properly informed.

00:17:30.000 Yeah, it's hard to be properly informed because it's hard to know who's telling the truth.

00:17:34.000 It is.

00:17:34.000 Like if you pay attention to this big beautiful bill that just got passed, I've been trying to sort out what's real and what's not.

00:17:42.000 And the real fear that people have is Medicaid.

00:17:44.000 The real fear is that people are going to lose access to health care.

00:17:50.000 But then there was this just giant arrest where they found billions of dollars of fraud and hundreds of people were arrested.

00:17:59.000 Doctors, healthcare providers.

00:18:01.000 You know about all that, right, Jamie?

00:18:03.000 You saw that big arrest?

00:18:06.000 It's, you know, something.

00:18:08.000 It's like something, but I just don't know enough.

00:18:11.000 Yeah, I don't know enough either.

00:18:12.000 So they're trying to eliminate fraud as a part of this.

00:18:15.000 But the consequences of that is like, well, okay, but is this going to affect poor people?

00:18:15.000 Right.

00:18:21.000 Is this going to affect legitimate poor people that just need help?

00:18:24.000 To me, that's the most important thing.

00:18:26.000 National health care fraud takedown results in 324 defendants charged in connection with over $14.6 billion in fraud.

00:18:36.000 Wow.

00:18:37.000 Largest Justice Department health care fraud takedown in history, more than doubles prior record of $6 billion.

00:18:44.000 Wow.

00:18:44.000 That's a government website, right?

00:18:47.000 I don't know.

00:18:49.000 I just don't know.

00:18:50.000 And I don't know enough.

00:18:52.000 And I know that there's probably more to the story than we're seeing.

00:18:55.000 Oh, yeah, for sure.

00:18:56.000 Right.

00:18:56.000 And so, you know, that's kind of how controlled opposition works to, you know, you just sort of, you know.

00:19:04.000 It says Medicare Medicaid Services also announced successfully prevented over $4 billion from being paid in response to false and fraudulent claims and that it suspended or revoked the billing privilege of 205 providers in the month leading up to the takedown civil charges against 20 defendants for $14.2 million in alleged fraud, as well as civil settlements with over 106 defendants totaling at 34.3 million.

00:19:29.000 Well, I'll have to Do some research.

00:19:31.000 Or not.

00:19:33.000 Well, that's the thing.

00:19:34.000 I'm a musician, man.

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00:20:33.000 That's just the thing.

00:20:34.000 I don't want to waste my day going through all that freaking out about the world.

00:20:37.000 I do think it's important to know, but at the same time, what I do know is that there's a lot of marginalized communities, whether it's a class issue or it's a, you know, I just see that there's a lot of people who don't have a lot of money who are suffering.

00:20:57.000 For sure.

00:20:58.000 And there's a lot of people getting caught in crossfire all over the world.

00:21:04.000 And it's a humanitarian issue.

00:21:07.000 And I think, you know, and so as a musician, I have a responsibility to observe.

00:21:14.000 I think as an artist, I have a responsibility to observe.

00:21:17.000 As a human.

00:21:18.000 I think we all have a responsibility to observe.

00:21:18.000 Yeah.

00:21:20.000 And I also don't like to keep my opinion resolute.

00:21:26.000 I don't like to identify with my opinion, meaning like I'm not joining any teams here.

00:21:33.000 Great.

00:21:33.000 I don't have any teams.

00:21:35.000 I want to know what based on if I get conflicting information, I have to make a decision on which one's going to sway the decisions I make going forward.

00:21:50.000 It's not easy.

00:21:50.000 It's tough.

00:21:51.000 In this world, it's really not easy.

00:21:53.000 But back in the day, interestingly, I think they had more of an ability to manipulate us back in the day because we only had one or two sources of information.

00:22:04.000 Oh, no doubt.

00:22:05.000 Well, listen, as confusing and as frustrating as social media is and as dangerous as it is for your psyche, it's better.

00:22:05.000 No doubt.

00:22:14.000 It's better to have it than to not have it because you don't have to listen to it.

00:22:18.000 You don't have to go on it.

00:22:19.000 And that's what I always tell people, stay off it.

00:22:21.000 But it's there for you if you need it.

00:22:23.000 Like when shit pops off in the world, it's the best source of information.

00:22:28.000 I Google things all the time and they're not there.

00:22:31.000 And then I'll go to X and they're there immediately.

00:22:33.000 When something happens in the world, it's on X before it's on anywhere else.

00:22:37.000 Well, there's a lot of platforms, I'm sure, that Google is only.

00:22:43.000 But the thing is, X is immediate, right?

00:22:46.000 It's people that are on the ground and people that are experienced and independent journalists use it more often than anything else.

00:22:53.000 That's interesting.

00:22:54.000 And Substack. 0.70

00:22:55.000 Yeah, I think that, you know, I think the only thing that I think I worry about with that is that the pendulum swings so far in either direction in response to certain things.

00:23:07.000 in response to perceived censorship in one way, then it becomes...

00:23:24.000 And so I think that the censorship just continues to be like, okay, well, it just goes back and forth.

00:23:29.000 And so I have a hard time understanding, and that's why I don't really feel like I have an ability to form a proper opinion on a lot of this shit.

00:23:39.000 Well, that's an intelligent perspective, because the reality is so many people that have really strong opinions aren't informed.

00:23:46.000 Well, that's the thing.

00:23:46.000 And I see people that die on certain hills and then, you know, but with no ability to formulate.

00:23:52.000 Like, that's why I'm a musician.

00:23:54.000 That's why I do what I do here.

00:23:56.000 Because all I do is I err on the side of compassion.

00:24:02.000 And I think, you know, I'm compassionate for people who are suffering.

00:24:07.000 I have compassion for suffering.

00:24:12.000 I believe that empathy can be manipulated, but I don't believe that I think it's a necessary emotion for cooperation and human condition.

00:24:21.000 That's a great way to put it.

00:24:23.000 Because empathy can be manipulated.

00:24:25.000 It can be manipulated through psychological warfare, but I also believe that it's never a good idea to then shut it off.

00:24:33.000 100%.

00:24:34.000 Well said.

00:24:35.000 Yeah, that's a really good question.

00:24:36.000 And I also will say this.

00:24:38.000 I think throughout history, there have been examples where people have put their faith in policy over character.

00:24:50.000 And I think that's a mistake.

00:24:53.000 I think the character of the person implementing the policy is just as important as the policy they represent.

00:25:00.000 Well, you know, and today nothing gets implemented.

00:25:03.000 There's no policy that gets drafted or implemented without a lot of weird influence.

00:25:07.000 Oh, yeah.

00:25:08.000 Influence from money.

00:25:09.000 It's always money.

00:25:10.000 And I have no idea the depth of that.

00:25:13.000 So where am I?

00:25:18.000 My truth lies in compassion and in trying to reach the hearts of people through music.

00:25:26.000 Do you know Daryl Davis?

00:25:27.000 Sure, I've had him on a couple times.

00:25:28.000 Oh, my God.

00:25:29.000 Yeah, he's great.

00:25:30.000 He's amazing.

00:25:30.000 He's a hero of mine.

00:25:31.000 Yeah, he's an amazing person.

00:25:33.000 What a fearless person to be able to go and sit down with these people and change their hearts.

00:25:38.000 Hundreds of them.

00:25:38.000 Yeah.

00:25:39.000 Hundreds of them.

00:25:40.000 Collecting.

00:25:41.000 One-on-one with some people what he does.

00:25:43.000 So Daryl is a musician, and Daryl, through the course of his travels, met, he told me the whole story.

00:25:50.000 The first guy he met, he didn't really believe him that the guy was actually in the KKK.

00:25:54.000 Daryl's a black man. 1.00

00:25:55.000 And so this guy pulls out his KKK membership card or whatever the fuck it is, right?

00:26:01.000 And he couldn't believe it, and he's like, Well, you're not like the other ones, and he's like, Well, what do you mean?

00:26:05.000 Do you know everyone that's black?

00:26:07.000 And so, he becomes friends with this guy, has dinner at his house, and then the guy gives him, over the course of their friendship, gives him his robe.

00:26:07.000 Like, what is this?

00:26:15.000 He says, I quit, man.

00:26:16.000 Obviously, what I'm doing is wrong because you're my best friend.

00:26:21.000 You know, like I love you, and so it can't be true that the black man is my enemy if you are such a cool person.

00:26:28.000 Yes.

00:26:29.000 And humans must be allowed to grow.

00:26:31.000 Yes.

00:26:32.000 You know, we have to allow people who have made mistakes in their past to we have to suspend judgment enough to allow that person to grow.

00:26:45.000 No question.

00:26:46.000 Because you have to understand, like, what influences was this guy subject to that led him to join the KKK in the first place?

00:26:46.000 Yeah.

00:26:54.000 Like, what was the community that he was in?

00:26:54.000 Yes.

00:26:57.000 What had he been exposed to?

00:26:59.000 Obviously, he had never been exposed to anybody like Daryl before he met him.

00:27:02.000 So he meets Daryl and then changes his ways.

00:27:05.000 Well, who knows if that guy grew up with cool parents in a different community, he would have been a different person.

00:27:10.000 100%.

00:27:11.000 We're products of how we were brought up.

00:27:14.000 For the most part.

00:27:14.000 Yes.

00:27:15.000 Our life experiences and what we've learned and the paths we've taken.

00:27:19.000 And, you know, and there's a lot of that going on.

00:27:19.000 Yeah.

00:27:24.000 I mean, I'm from Texas and I've toured the South and I know how that is.

00:27:28.000 And there's a lot of people that grow up being indoctrinated and with really not good ideas.

00:27:38.000 But they don't know until they're able to – I love a great example.

00:27:38.000 Right.

00:27:48.000 Paul Simon played a show in South Africa just after apartheid.

00:27:56.000 When he did the Graceland album, he went down there and he worked with local African musicians and created, in my opinion, one of the greatest albums of all time.

00:28:09.000 I mean, with Lady Smith Black Mambazzo doing the vocals on that, Vincent Nguini, the most incredible musicians.

00:28:18.000 And at the time, that was a culturally powerful thing because there's a show online.

00:28:25.000 You can watch it.

00:28:26.000 You should probably pull it up.

00:28:28.000 It's amazing.

00:28:29.000 There's like Paul Simon playing for tens of thousands of black and white people right after apartheid ends.

00:28:37.000 Or you may even be during apartheid.

00:28:40.000 And they're all dancing and bobbing up and down.

00:28:42.000 It's the most joyful thing ever.

00:28:44.000 Music is powerful.

00:28:45.000 It can bring people together.

00:28:47.000 But because what it does is it reaches everybody's heart and it cuts through all the bullshit, the mind stuff, you know, and everyone can relate to having their heart broken.

00:28:57.000 You know, maybe it happened for some at a young age.

00:29:00.000 Maybe it happened, maybe some people had their heart broken at age four to the point where they closed their hearts off nearly completely.

00:29:08.000 But even Darth Vader had a little bit.

00:29:11.000 You know what I mean?

00:29:12.000 Darth Vader, everyone forgets that Darth Vader, at the end of Star Wars, redeemed himself.

00:29:21.000 It's the Carl Jung, the archetype, right?

00:29:23.000 The dark knight of the soul, and then being able to come through that.

00:29:27.000 And like, and really, like, you know, and you can judge.

00:29:33.000 You can not want to be around, like, I think Carl Jung actually talks about, like, there are certain people and things that you can't allow to exist because they're dangers to everyone else.

00:29:43.000 But at the same time, you don't have to judge their humanity.

00:29:46.000 Right.

00:29:47.000 You just, like, it's like a wasp.

00:29:49.000 You have to swat the wasp because it's going to sting you.

00:29:52.000 But, you know, or, you know, however you feel about that, you can put it outside, but you get it away, right?

00:29:57.000 You know, but you don't call the wasp evil.

00:29:57.000 Right.

00:30:01.000 Right.

00:30:01.000 There are people that have just been corrupted for whatever reasons to the point where you just need to remove them from the situation.

00:30:08.000 But I try not to have hatred towards that.

00:30:12.000 I just sort of understand that they are where they are in their lives and they got there for some reason.

00:30:18.000 Well, it's a cautionary tale for everyone.

00:30:20.000 Yeah.

00:30:20.000 That's the thing about today's access to information is you could see so many different cautionary tales.

00:30:26.000 You could see so many different people that went down the absolute wrong road.

00:30:31.000 And you get to see them and you get to shine a light on them in this very strange time.

00:30:38.000 You get to see, like, this is, you could have been that person.

00:30:42.000 Anybody could have been that person.

00:30:44.000 We're so easily.

00:30:46.000 We have so many similarities.

00:30:48.000 All of us do.

00:30:50.000 And we have to recognize that your unique situation in life, your unique community, family, life experiences, all the things you've gone through that made you who you are today didn't have to be that way.

00:31:04.000 You could have been in the worst circumstances, and there's people that are in the worst circumstances, and they're a product of that.

00:31:12.000 And that's the weirdness of life.

00:31:14.000 There's not necessarily good and evil.

00:31:17.000 There's good and evil results.

00:31:20.000 But humans inherently both inside.

00:31:24.000 Yeah, we are both inside.

00:31:25.000 We're the yin and the yang.

00:31:27.000 I think you need that, unfortunately, too.

00:31:29.000 We need to know that that exists in order to grow.

00:31:34.000 When people, you know, ask, you know, and I'm a very lucky human.

00:31:40.000 So, like, I say all these things with hopefully the right perspective that I am as far as I'm in like the top 1% of the luckiest people, or probably even higher than that, you know, with access to clean water.

00:31:58.000 I don't have to worry about when I'm pulled over being shot.

00:32:01.000 I don't, you know, there's not, there are a lot of things that I can be very grateful for.

00:32:06.000 And so when I make comments about these things, you know, I can only come from my own perspective.

00:32:13.000 Yeah, of course.

00:32:14.000 But I do believe that we all have the light and the dark inside us.

00:32:20.000 Like the story of the wolf, you know, the story of the two wolves inside of us.

00:32:25.000 And, you know, which one survives is the one you feed.

00:32:28.000 You have the light wolf and the Dark wolf.

00:32:31.000 And you just constantly make decisions in order to feed the right wolf over time.

00:32:37.000 And some people get lost and they start feeding the wrong wolf.

00:32:40.000 And I feel like I've been there before, too.

00:32:42.000 I've gone through darkness and come out the other side in my own way, in my own, in my own experience, in my own pain, in my own heart.

00:32:56.000 I think that's why I believe it's so important to reach people's hearts and why music is so powerful because we all have a heart.

00:33:06.000 Just regarding certain sociopathic people.

00:33:10.000 For the most part, we all have a heart.

00:33:14.000 And so that's where you reach.

00:33:16.000 And I think sociopaths, that's on a spectrum too, is what we're hearing.

00:33:22.000 So you have people who can learn sociopathic behavior but aren't necessarily devoid of feeling.

00:33:27.000 Right.

00:33:27.000 There's people that become sociopaths or survive, I bet.

00:33:30.000 Exactly.

00:33:31.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:31.000 For sure.

00:33:32.000 100%.

00:33:33.000 Yeah, it's not that clear-cut.

00:33:36.000 And, you know, to demonize people is that's the instinct, right?

00:33:42.000 That's how wars get started.

00:33:43.000 We other an entire group of humans, they're the other.

00:33:48.000 And I think this is tribal society behavior that developed because at one point in time, when you saw someone from another tribe that was invading, they were coming to steal your resources and kill people.

00:34:03.000 And that's what people did.

00:34:04.000 And again, that also, there's an exception to that in the sense that, like, for example, in Germany, you know, there were clear-cut decisions that people had to make about survival and about, you know, like, I'm sorry, but the Nazis had to go.

00:34:24.000 You know, we can't just say that, you know, they're good people.

00:34:24.000 Right.

00:34:28.000 Everyone's the same.

00:34:28.000 No.

00:34:30.000 They're so far gone that they just have to go.

00:34:34.000 And there are certain examples of that.

00:34:37.000 So it's not like you don't have to forgive people.

00:34:41.000 You just have to understand them, I think.

00:34:43.000 Yeah, that's why people call that the last great war or the real war.

00:34:47.000 Right.

00:34:48.000 Yeah, because it's like there was such a clear-cut case of good and evil.

00:34:52.000 Yeah.

00:34:53.000 And that's, I mean, look, I think the military-industrial complex has been around since even before then.

00:35:00.000 Well, Smedley Butler wrote about it in 1933.

00:35:00.000 Oh, for sure.

00:35:03.000 Yeah.

00:35:04.000 So anyways, that's where Bob Dylan comes in.

00:35:07.000 Masters of war, you know.

00:35:09.000 Look, man, I'm again.

00:35:11.000 That's also why mushrooms are illegal. 0.64

00:35:13.000 Is it really?

00:35:14.000 Oh, yeah.

00:35:15.000 Mushrooms were made illegal during the Nixon administration because they wanted to figure out a way to stop the anti-war protests.

00:35:22.000 They wanted to figure out a way, they turned everything Schedule I. They took all the psychedelics and lumped them into a Schedule I because they wanted to go after civil rights activists and anti-war activists.

00:35:33.000 That was the main reason.

00:35:34.000 Like, this is the best way to lock these people up.

00:35:37.000 Well, and interestingly, yeah.

00:35:41.000 I mean, I think that, you know, right, because the thing is, is that there are a lot of studies about marijuana now that say, oh, it could be harmful, right?

00:35:50.000 That come out.

00:35:51.000 But then at the same time, the way that that's harmful and then comparatively to the other things that are legal and allowed to just propagate.

00:36:04.000 Yeah, like whiskey.

00:36:05.000 Or cigarettes.

00:36:07.000 You know, like, I mean, like, you know, you have, there's obviously a bias against, and that you can see clearly.

00:36:15.000 And obviously it came from this.

00:36:18.000 Well, it's also who's funding these studies.

00:36:21.000 Right.

00:36:22.000 And what did they look for when they're funding these studies?

00:36:25.000 And did they have, it was their bias attached to these studies?

00:36:28.000 Like, what does this mean?

00:36:30.000 You know, like, I know a lot of people who use marijuana, it's not harmful to them at all.

00:36:34.000 So, like, did you include those people in that study?

00:36:36.000 Like, and then I know people that use marijuana, and it really does over, it consumes their life.

00:36:42.000 They overindulge.

00:36:44.000 I had to stop.

00:36:46.000 What was happening with you with it?

00:36:48.000 Well, I had to stop for many reasons.

00:36:53.000 I wanted to be clear-headed.

00:36:55.000 I started exercising a lot.

00:36:58.000 I got my whoop.

00:37:00.000 I got my whoop right here.

00:37:02.000 I started tracking my sleep.

00:37:05.000 Funny enough, the sleep is really what got me the most because every time I'd take a hit or take one drink, my sleep would go to shit.

00:37:14.000 It's amazing when you look at the results.

00:37:16.000 Oh, my God.

00:37:17.000 It was intense.

00:37:18.000 And I started working out heavy, and I really, I had a lot of great, like, you know, I have a high, good engine, you know, I'm VO2.

00:37:29.000 And like, I was like, you know, really started to feel like an athlete again.

00:37:32.000 And I started to feel great.

00:37:34.000 I started to get addicted to the high that I would get saying no, of being proud of myself.

00:37:41.000 Having discipline.

00:37:42.000 And having the discipline.

00:37:44.000 I love the high that I get from exercising discipline.

00:37:48.000 I'm addicted to that.

00:37:50.000 That's a good thing to be addicted to.

00:37:51.000 right?

00:37:52.000 You get addicted to that feeling that you get You know, like Goggins, he talks about, you know, all carrot, no stick, right?

00:38:00.000 Or all stick, no carrot.

00:38:01.000 Can't remember which one it is.

00:38:03.000 Right?

00:38:04.000 But the thing is, is that for me, the reward is the high that I get from having discipline.

00:38:11.000 And I get a, it's a dopamine hit, you know, and it's just vastly more rewarding than whatever temporary thing I'll get from having a drink.

00:38:23.000 I don't know like drinking that much, but smoking weed was cool because it put me into a very creative spot and kind of gave me this surge of inspiration, if you will.

00:38:32.000 But it's bad for my lungs.

00:38:35.000 And there were a lot of ups and downs emotionally.

00:38:38.000 I'd get high and I'd get low and I'd get high and I'd get low.

00:38:41.000 And now this clarity that I have is just, it's incredible.

00:38:47.000 It's just this steady, you know, it's this steady sort of joy that I have, I mean, because I had to face myself too.

00:38:57.000 When you get clear, things come up and then you look at them and you're like, and things that maybe you didn't want to look at before.

00:39:05.000 Habits that you had or things in your past that you have to forgive yourself for, but you didn't really, they're like floating in the back of your mind as unfinished thoughts.

00:39:14.000 And so without it, all of that masking, I was able to sit and, I mean, look, I was able to sit and write this record, which is the most clear album I've ever, you know, I wanted to know who I was throughout the, without all the, you know, I didn't want to chase a six-minute guitar solo.

00:39:38.000 I didn't want to chase, I wanted to just figure out who I was stripped away from all that.

00:39:42.000 It's funny, there's this guy, Marcus Dowling.

00:39:45.000 He's a, he writes for the Tennessean, and I was sitting talking to him in Nashville.

00:39:51.000 And he said that when I put, he was ready to listen to my record, and he was about to have a whiskey.

00:39:58.000 And he, the first song comes up, and he puts his whiskey down.

00:40:02.000 He's like, oh, I don't want to drink for this.

00:40:04.000 And I think that music puts you in the state of mind that the artist is in when they recorded it or when they wrote it.

00:40:11.000 So it's kind of almost like interesting that he decided to put his drink down when he heard this album, like the first song, because that's where I'm at, you know.

00:40:20.000 And so I wonder if there's that feeling of like this kind of like, it's less of a jam-band thing and more of just like straight songs.

00:40:29.000 There's probably definitely something to that because I think that's something that happens when someone's on stage performing.

00:40:34.000 It's like you let them take over your mind.

00:40:38.000 You let the music, the song.

00:40:39.000 It's like creating a holographic bubble that you're all participating in this sort of vibe.

00:40:48.000 I mean, you were there at the McConaughey thing.

00:40:52.000 It was an electric feeling, right?

00:40:53.000 Yeah, it was pretty wild.

00:40:54.000 It was wild.

00:40:55.000 Yeah, it was awesome.

00:40:56.000 And I felt like, you know, it was cool to see everyone there.

00:41:02.000 There's also like the added thing to that that, you know, they do that every year and it's a charity.

00:41:08.000 Yeah.

00:41:09.000 And all the money goes to go.

00:41:10.000 Given back.

00:41:11.000 Yeah.

00:41:11.000 And a lot of charities, like there's like five different charities that they were given to McConaughey.

00:41:17.000 He's a good guy.

00:41:18.000 He's a great guy.

00:41:19.000 He's a great guy.

00:41:20.000 He's a very wise man.

00:41:21.000 Especially for someone who's an actor.

00:41:21.000 He is.

00:41:24.000 A lot of them, and that's again, that's a thing that I have to get over because I was around so many of them in LA that were fools that I just immediately associate acting with these empty vessels that are just struggling for attention and trying to say the things that they think will get them to the best spot.

00:41:49.000 I think that, look, I mean, to become an entertainer, there's a level of self-absorption that you have to sort of accept.

00:42:02.000 All right, I got a big ego.

00:42:04.000 Now, can I keep my ego in check for my whole life?

00:42:06.000 Like I think my dad has, you know.

00:42:09.000 I mean, I see my dad as a great example.

00:42:11.000 I see Paul Simon as a great example.

00:42:13.000 I see Neil.

00:42:16.000 I see these people that like that just are just artists through and through.

00:42:21.000 You know what I mean?

00:42:22.000 And for better or worse, not perfect people, but they are who they are.

00:42:27.000 And for the most part, I know my dad has an ego, but he has a good relationship with it because the ego is just the representation of who we are to the rest of the world.

00:42:40.000 Well, everyone has an ego.

00:42:41.000 And the struggle with the ego is just like the struggle with good and evil.

00:42:41.000 Yeah, we all do.

00:42:46.000 I think part of it is necessary for you to overcome.

00:42:50.000 You need that.

00:42:51.000 You need those.

00:42:52.000 And you also need to see people fall prey to it.

00:42:56.000 Wren.

00:42:56.000 We see that a lot.

00:42:57.000 There's an artist named Wren.

00:42:59.000 No.

00:42:59.000 Oh, man.

00:43:00.000 You'd love his work.

00:43:02.000 He plays guitar and he sings amazingly.

00:43:05.000 Spell it?

00:43:06.000 R-E-N. 1.00

00:43:07.000 He's from England.

00:43:07.000 R-E-N?

00:43:08.000 He's from Wales.

00:43:09.000 Oh, okay.

00:43:09.000 He's Welsh.

00:43:12.000 Yeah, so he's got a song called Higher End.

00:43:16.000 Listen to Higher End.

00:43:18.000 This is the one.

00:43:18.000 Here, put the headphones on.

00:43:20.000 I've seen him for a while.

00:43:21.000 He's like a, he started as a busker kind of guy.

00:43:23.000 Right?

00:43:24.000 One of them dudes at the subway station.

00:43:28.000 Yeah.

00:43:31.000 This is a crazy song.

00:43:33.000 It's about communicating with your ego.

00:43:35.000 What a weird fucking start to a video.

00:43:38.000 A guy with a pig mask on.

00:43:39.000 Oh, man.

00:43:40.000 Iren.

00:43:51.000 guitar solo

00:44:21.000 guitar solo Hi there, Ran.

00:44:44.000 It's been a little while.

00:44:45.000 Did you miss me?

00:44:46.000 You thought you buried me, didn't you?

00:44:47.000 Risky.

00:44:48.000 Cause I always come back.

00:44:49.000 Did I hang in all that?

00:44:50.000 Did Ing in the moment?

00:44:51.000 We're periphery.

00:44:52.000 Ran, aren't you pleased to see me?

00:44:53.000 It's been weeks since we spoke, bro.

00:44:55.000 I know you need me.

00:44:55.000 You're the sheep, I'm the shepherd.

00:44:56.000 Not your place to leave me.

00:44:58.000 Not your place to be biting off the hand that feeds me.

00:45:00.000 Hi, Ren.

00:45:01.000 I've been taking some time to be distant.

00:45:03.000 I've been taking some time to be still.

00:45:05.000 I've been taking some time to be by myself.

00:45:07.000 Since my therapist told me I'm ill.

00:45:09.000 And I've been making some progress lately.

00:45:11.000 And I've learned some new coping skills.

00:45:14.000 So I haven't really needed you much, man.

00:45:16.000 I think we need to just step back and chill.

00:45:18.000 Bren, you sound more insane than I do.

00:45:20.000 You think that those doctors are really there to guide you.

00:45:22.000 You've been through this a million times.

00:45:23.000 Your civilian mind is not perfect.

00:45:25.000 You're always being lied to.

00:45:26.000 Okay, take another pill, boy.

00:45:28.000 From yourself in the sound, don't white noise.

00:45:30.000 Follow this 10-step program, rejoice.

00:45:32.000 All your problems will be gone.

00:45:33.000 Fucking dumb, boy.

00:45:34.000 Nah, mate, This time is different, man.

00:45:36.000 Trust me, I feel like things might be falling in place.

00:45:39.000 Right, he just has a whole conversation with his own mind, you know, his own ego.

00:45:45.000 And it tries to tell him that he's not worth shit.

00:45:45.000 Yeah.

00:45:49.000 And then he's like, no, wait, I'm getting myself together.

00:45:52.000 And this whole conversation with him, and then at the end, it talks about where good and evil isn't a battle, it's a dance.

00:46:02.000 And no one ever wins.

00:46:04.000 You know, with their battle with their ego, it's always just a dance.

00:46:07.000 And it's always just kind of finding balance.

00:46:10.000 And there's a song I have on my album called All God Did.

00:46:13.000 And it's actually the same concept.

00:46:15.000 And I wrote it before I heard that.

00:46:16.000 But then when I heard that, I was like, oh, shit, that's way better.

00:46:21.000 But it's great.

00:46:24.000 It's beautifully written.

00:46:25.000 I mean, it's very, you could tell all his influences, and then he just kind of adds onto that, which is.

00:46:31.000 That dance is critical.

00:46:32.000 You need that dance.

00:46:34.000 That dance is, I think this is one of the problems of people that don't exercise.

00:46:39.000 I think the struggle of exercise is oftentimes conflated with vanity.

00:46:46.000 And I don't think it's that.

00:46:48.000 I think you can keep your body covered up to the end of time and never be proud of it, and you will benefit greatly from the struggle of exercise.

00:46:56.000 Because I think the struggle of exercise is mental.

00:47:00.000 As much as it is physical, there's a dance.

00:47:04.000 When I talk to Goggins about it, he's the most bizarre of all cases.

00:47:10.000 Because he's doing it all in silence.

00:47:13.000 He's doing it all by himself.

00:47:15.000 And occasionally he lets people peer into it.

00:47:17.000 But it's going on right now.

00:47:19.000 Like right now, that guy's out there running probably 30 miles today with destroyed knees.

00:47:24.000 He's a real freak.

00:47:25.000 And when I talk to him about it, he's like, I'm downloading knowledge.

00:47:29.000 That's what he says.

00:47:30.000 That's great.

00:47:30.000 He's like, I'm in the lab and I'm downloading knowledge.

00:47:33.000 Like he's struggling in his own mind every day and forcing himself to do it every day.

00:47:39.000 And then he brings elite athletes to try to keep up with him occasionally.

00:47:43.000 Like he brought Israel Adesanya.

00:47:45.000 Israel Adesanya is former UFC middleweight champion, like one of the best fighters of all time.

00:47:50.000 And you realize like he can't even keep up with Dave, not even close.

00:47:54.000 This is one of multiple workouts that Dave is doing in a day.

00:47:58.000 And this guy can't keep up with him.

00:48:01.000 And Dave's 50.

00:48:03.000 What was the part of the brain that gets enlarged that Huberman was talking about that gets enlarged when you do things you don't want to do?

00:48:13.000 I always forget the name of it, but Jamie will pull it up.

00:48:15.000 Yeah, the anterior mid.

00:48:18.000 I don't know.

00:48:20.000 It should be like an easier name.

00:48:23.000 Cortex anterior, something like that.

00:48:25.000 The discipline part.

00:48:26.000 Yeah, the discipline.

00:48:27.000 Just call it discipline.

00:48:27.000 That enlarges throughout your life when you do things that you force yourself to do.

00:48:32.000 Yeah, it literally does.

00:48:33.000 It literally gets bigger, which is crazy.

00:48:35.000 You know, being.

00:48:36.000 What is it, Jamie?

00:48:37.000 The ant.

00:48:38.000 Anterior mid-cigular cortex.

00:48:40.000 You got it.

00:48:42.000 Nice.

00:48:42.000 Ha!

00:48:43.000 Success.

00:48:44.000 Mid-cingulate.

00:48:45.000 Mid-cingulate.

00:48:46.000 Mid-cingulate cortex.

00:48:47.000 Yeah.

00:48:48.000 Shout out to Andrew Huberman.

00:48:50.000 There you go.

00:48:51.000 Doing things you don't want to do can strengthen your brain, particularly the anterior mid-cingulate cortex, which is associated with willpower and tenacity.

00:48:59.000 That's incredible, the idea that it actually grows.

00:49:03.000 So willpower is not just, it's not like an airy fairy concept.

00:49:07.000 It's like a muscle.

00:49:09.000 No, it's incredible that willpower can also be enhanced.

00:49:15.000 Yes.

00:49:17.000 It just goes to brain plasticity.

00:49:21.000 And that's a concept that I think a lot of people don't understand is that we are not set in who we are.

00:49:29.000 We are, especially if we adopt a growth mindset, that we are never set in who we are.

00:49:38.000 We can always improve and refine the neural structure of our brain to where that it works more efficiently.

00:49:48.000 Not just that, but you have to.

00:49:50.000 It never ends.

00:49:52.000 There's never a time when you're done with discipline.

00:49:55.000 You don't just get it, and now I have discipline.

00:49:57.000 No, every day is a struggle.

00:49:58.000 Gagan said that.

00:49:59.000 He goes, sometimes I stare at my sneakers for like a half hour before I put those motherfuckers on.

00:50:03.000 At like four in the morning, you know, every day.

00:50:03.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:50:06.000 But here's the thing, is that it becomes a philosophical question because when you say you have to, you know, there are people who get by life, you know, and they, there is a Tibetan tradition that the monks do where they spend months and they take these little like flute things and they and they have colored sand, right?

00:50:27.000 And they all sit in a circle.

00:50:29.000 And it takes them months sometimes to create this beautiful, intricate sand art.

00:50:36.000 And they chant while they do it, and it's this most incredible thing.

00:50:38.000 And at the end, they go, and they blow it all away.

00:50:45.000 And it's meant to represent the impermanence of life.

00:50:49.000 But then it's meant to also pose the question, why make something so beautiful when it's going to be, when you know it's impermanent?

00:50:58.000 And I believe it goes back to the first thing we started talking about today, which is that meaning is everything in life.

00:51:05.000 And nothing really in life inherently has any meaning except the meaning we give it, right?

00:51:11.000 So you could go, you could go through life as sand on the beach that blows in the wind.

00:51:17.000 And it wouldn't really mean much when you blow one way or another.

00:51:25.000 But if you choose to give your life meaning and build a sand castle and make it as intricate and beautiful as you can and make it as detailed as possible, knowing that one day it's going to get washed away, the only person that it matters to is you and knowing that you did the best you could at that moment that the wave comes.

00:51:48.000 If that's true, they should never let anybody film them making those things.

00:51:53.000 They should never let anyone film them making those things because then it becomes permanent.

00:51:59.000 Someone can see it forever.

00:52:01.000 Sure.

00:52:03.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:52:04.000 But yet, again, I think it's for them anyways.

00:52:06.000 Yes.

00:52:07.000 It's not for everyone else.

00:52:09.000 But when you let people peer into that world and you film it, there's something about that like, oh, yeah, you just cheated it.

00:52:15.000 Well, in a way, it becomes permanent, but it also, I mean, is, you know, just because you see it happening.

00:52:22.000 Let's look at it.

00:52:23.000 Can you find that?

00:52:24.000 Yeah, sure, you could find it on there.

00:52:25.000 I mean, I'm not dismissing it.

00:52:27.000 No, no, no.

00:52:28.000 But I think it's an interesting question because something that lives in our subjective reality, if you see a video of that happening, and then you grasp the concept of it, and then that makes you consider that concept in yourself, understanding that the meaning is a subjective experience anyways, then now you understand, like, okay, it just causes one to ask the question to themselves.

00:52:55.000 And I think that's the purpose that the monks are, you know, they're there as sort of like, in a way, they're teachers, you know.

00:53:02.000 So they show you something that then you ask, you know, inside.

00:53:06.000 Yeah, so what you were saying was that in response to the idea that everyone should exercise and discipline.

00:53:13.000 Yeah, well, but it's like you don't have to do that, but your life will have, you will experience a different sense of meaning.

00:53:22.000 Sure.

00:53:23.000 You know, if you do that.

00:53:24.000 And that will, I think that's enough for me at least, because I'm driven by finding a sense of meaning.

00:53:32.000 And I think maybe because of how I grew up, you know, maybe others aren't driven by that.

00:53:37.000 I think that's really important to say too.

00:53:39.000 Because you never know what is driving one person.

00:53:43.000 I don't know how your brain works.

00:53:44.000 Exactly.

00:53:45.000 I could only guess.

00:53:46.000 I could only assume your brain works like mine.

00:53:48.000 Sure.

00:53:49.000 That's a silly thing to assume.

00:53:49.000 And that's silly.

00:53:51.000 Yeah, we don't even know if we see the same colors.

00:53:54.000 Right.

00:53:55.000 There it is.

00:53:55.000 Oh, wow.

00:53:56.000 That's so beautiful.

00:53:57.000 Isn't it?

00:53:58.000 That's amazing.

00:54:00.000 And then they're going to fuck that up.

00:54:04.000 I wrote a piece once for, God, it was Esquire or Maxim or one of those things about your body's like a sand castle.

00:54:12.000 Yeah.

00:54:12.000 That you're building this body, but one day it will be eroded.

00:54:17.000 Now they're just sweeping it away.

00:54:19.000 Yeah.

00:54:20.000 And then they'll dump the sand in the center. 0.84

00:54:21.000 Oh, that's kind of cool, too, though.

00:54:23.000 Isn't it?

00:54:23.000 It's kind of abstract as they swirl it.

00:54:25.000 It's kind of beautiful, too.

00:54:27.000 Yeah.

00:54:27.000 But think of how long that took them.

00:54:29.000 It must have taken forever.

00:54:29.000 Oh, my God.

00:54:30.000 And they're scooping the sand up.

00:54:31.000 They scoop it up.

00:54:32.000 They're just doing it with these little things.

00:54:32.000 Yeah, look.

00:54:34.000 They just tap on it.

00:54:36.000 Look at that.

00:54:37.000 That's beautiful.

00:54:37.000 Wow.

00:54:39.000 It's kind of amazing.

00:54:39.000 Yeah.

00:54:41.000 I've always loved that concept, right?

00:54:44.000 And I think that, you know, yeah, maybe they shouldn't let you film it.

00:54:49.000 I don't know.

00:54:50.000 I'm glad they did.

00:54:51.000 Yeah, I mean, they're letting people watch it.

00:54:53.000 Yeah.

00:54:54.000 And, you know, just allowing people to see what the whole thing is.

00:54:58.000 It'll allow more people to understand the concept.

00:55:00.000 Well, that's kind of like Alan Watts always says, you know, don't listen to what I'm saying.

00:55:05.000 Right.

00:55:06.000 Because the Tao that can be spoken is not the real Tao.

00:55:09.000 Right.

00:55:10.000 And yet here I am just loving the sound of my own voice and talking about it.

00:55:13.000 You know what I mean?

00:55:14.000 That's a no problem.

00:55:15.000 You know, so it's like, you know, that's the great paradox of the spiritual self and understanding what that means.

00:55:26.000 Well, that becomes readily apparent after you have a psychedelic experience.

00:55:30.000 I remember one of my first ones that I had, I realized when I was trying to describe it, like I'm trying to impress people with the way I use my words.

00:55:36.000 I was very aware.

00:55:38.000 I was like, oh, I'm trying to impress people with my grasp of language that I'm using to describe an experience.

00:55:45.000 And I was like, oh, that's kind of gross.

00:55:47.000 One of the great, of course, actually, when I started listening to you, it was in like 2007, 2006.

00:55:57.000 And it was, I was listening to a lot of Terrence McKenna at the time.

00:56:03.000 And Terrence McKenna talked about someone who had a grasp on the English.

00:56:07.000 Yeah, he was amazing.

00:56:09.000 What an incredible.

00:56:10.000 Like, I'd listen to his lectures, you know, that were available online.

00:56:14.000 Psychedelic Salon is the best resource.

00:56:16.000 That's still up, right?

00:56:18.000 Lorenzo from Psychedelic Salon, who had been on the podcast before back in the day, he's collected like the greatest assembly of McKenna, Alan Watts, Timothy Lee.

00:56:30.000 Ram Das, probably.

00:56:31.000 Yes.

00:56:31.000 There's a Ram Dass conversation, I think, with Alan Watts.

00:56:36.000 Oh, wow.

00:56:37.000 Somewhere out there, which is really interesting.

00:56:38.000 Well, my friend Duncan became friends with Ram Dass.

00:56:41.000 Yeah, I actually met him in Hawaii one time.

00:56:44.000 Really?

00:56:44.000 Yeah.

00:56:45.000 I got to meet him.

00:56:47.000 Yeah, Psychedelic Salon.

00:56:49.000 So it is psychedelic salon.com, and there's Lorenzo.

00:56:55.000 And Psychedelic Salon is like this incredible resource of all the McKenna lectures.

00:57:03.000 Because it's such a great resource, so many people who were there at like, you know, some talk that he gave in Hawaii at some conference room somewhere recorded it and then they would send that to Lorenzo and then he'd put it online and have it available for everybody.

00:57:18.000 And, you know, some amazing insights and conversations.

00:57:24.000 He lived not too far from where I live in Maui.

00:57:29.000 So I went on a whale watch with him one time.

00:57:32.000 Really?

00:57:33.000 With McKenna?

00:57:34.000 No, with Ramdock.

00:57:35.000 Sorry.

00:57:35.000 With Ramda.

00:57:36.000 Oh, okay.

00:57:36.000 Okay.

00:57:36.000 Yeah, yeah, but not McKenna.

00:57:38.000 I think McKenna died when I was a kid, like really early.

00:57:42.000 Yeah, I think he died in 2019.

00:57:44.000 95 or something?

00:57:45.000 No, it was a little later than that.

00:57:47.000 Oh.

00:57:48.000 What year did McKenna die?

00:57:52.000 You're Jamie, right?

00:57:53.000 Yeah.

00:57:54.000 Jamie, 2000.

00:57:55.000 2000?

00:57:56.000 I heard you play golf.

00:57:58.000 And you were in a simulator earlier.

00:57:58.000 I do.

00:58:00.000 I was.

00:58:01.000 I was in a simulator last night to like.

00:58:03.000 His hands are bad.

00:58:04.000 My hands all blistered out.

00:58:06.000 Yeah.

00:58:06.000 I had that.

00:58:07.000 We were having a conversation while we were getting espresso, and I was saying, I can't play music for the same reason I can't play golf.

00:58:14.000 Right.

00:58:14.000 And then he shows me his hands.

00:58:17.000 Yeah.

00:58:17.000 We're all lying.

00:58:18.000 And you're like, oh, that's what he was just doing back there.

00:58:20.000 Jamie's got this.

00:58:22.000 He's got the bug.

00:58:23.000 Yeah, he's got it bad.

00:58:24.000 He wants to fuck his friends up.

00:58:26.000 It's fun.

00:58:27.000 It is a fun game.

00:58:28.000 It's fun to make people mad.

00:58:33.000 That's a weird motivation, but okay.

00:58:38.000 It's funny, like the closest friends we have are sometimes the ones we give the most shit, though.

00:58:46.000 Oh, yeah, for sure.

00:58:47.000 Well, they're the ones that know you love them, so you can give them shit.

00:58:49.000 You can kind of, yeah, you can.

00:58:51.000 And it's fun.

00:58:52.000 There's nothing like that feeling of having a friend that can take it and dole it out.

00:58:57.000 Oh, that's why I love comedians.

00:58:59.000 Right, right, right, right.

00:59:00.000 They're the best.

00:59:01.000 You shit on them.

00:59:02.000 They love it.

00:59:02.000 They shit on themselves.

00:59:03.000 Everyone's having fun.

00:59:04.000 Yeah.

00:59:05.000 Exactly.

00:59:06.000 That's one of the great joys in life, I think.

00:59:08.000 Yeah, the people that can't take that, boy, you're missing out on a giant chunk of what it means to be a person if you're so sensitive.

00:59:14.000 You can't let people crack on you.

00:59:16.000 That's so silly.

00:59:17.000 Well, yeah.

00:59:19.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:59:20.000 You're missing out on a lot of the fun.

00:59:21.000 You're missing out on half the laughs because half the laughs are at your own expense.

00:59:25.000 Exactly.

00:59:28.000 I've probably laughed harder at myself than at anyone else in my life, probably.

00:59:32.000 That's a healthy perspective then.

00:59:34.000 And you're a fairly healthy person.

00:59:36.000 Yeah.

00:59:36.000 Well, I mean, it's funny.

00:59:37.000 You know, we're running around, you know, trying to find meaning in life.

00:59:42.000 And, you know, one day, you know, like one day is a crazy thought, but one day the last remembrance of the human experience will happen.

00:59:52.000 Yes.

00:59:53.000 You know, and.

00:59:55.000 Shit, it might be in our lifetime.

00:59:57.000 I doubt it.

00:59:57.000 I think it'll be, I think it'll be, because even now we're uploaded into the AI system, you know, so like something will survive, you know, something.

01:00:07.000 Yeah, well, whatever we are will lead to whatever comes next.

01:00:11.000 There's a great episode of Star Trek called The Inner Light.

01:00:16.000 Have you ever seen that?

01:00:17.000 The real one?

01:00:17.000 The first Star Trek?

01:00:18.000 The Next Generation.

01:00:19.000 Oh, that's bullshit, Star Trek.

01:00:21.000 Whoa.

01:00:23.000 Whoa.

01:00:25.000 Them's fighting words, man.

01:00:27.000 You're a Picard guy?

01:00:28.000 Hell yeah, I'm a Picard guy.

01:00:30.000 I'd vote for him right now.

01:00:31.000 That's hilarious.

01:00:32.000 Meanwhile, he probably could win.

01:00:34.000 Diplomacy, man.

01:00:36.000 So this is the inner light?

01:00:37.000 The inner light.

01:00:38.000 Here's a story.

01:00:39.000 Okay, here's a story.

01:00:40.000 They come across a probe, all right?

01:00:43.000 Because they're exploring space, obviously, if you don't know Star Trek, they're exploring space and their whole mission is to go where no man has gone before.

01:00:52.000 Right.

01:00:52.000 And so they find this probe, and as they're scanning the probe, it zaps Picard, and he goes unconscious, and he wakes up on this world where he remembers the spaceship.

01:01:04.000 He remembers where he was, but he's got a wife and a family and kids, and this world is being threatened by an exploding sun.

01:01:12.000 And so he's got a lot of scientific knowledge.

01:01:15.000 So he, over the next 20 years in this world, he eventually grows old and accepts his fate that he has no idea how he got here, but he's got to live this life now.

01:01:27.000 And he starts to love his wife and his kids.

01:01:29.000 He starts to try and save this planet from the exploding sun.

01:01:33.000 He ends up not being able to.

01:01:35.000 And then as he dies, he wakes up back on the spaceship with only 20 seconds having gone by on the spaceship.

01:01:45.000 And the probe had been sent by that civilization.

01:01:50.000 They knew they were going to be destroyed, so they uploaded this thing that would let Picard experience what happened to their civilization and tell their story.

01:02:01.000 Wow.

01:02:02.000 And he did it.

01:02:04.000 He experienced a lifetime of 40 years or 25, whatever years before he died in the span of 20 seconds and then woke up at the moment of his death in that other life and then was able to now tell the story of this forgotten civilization in space.

01:02:19.000 Whoa.

01:02:20.000 It's the coolest concept ever.

01:02:22.000 Okay, I'll have to watch it now.

01:02:24.000 I mean, it's, you know, I just told you.

01:02:30.000 Do you know who Joseph McGonagall is?

01:02:33.000 No.

01:02:33.000 Joseph McGonagall was like, he was remote viewer number one.

01:02:39.000 Oh, interesting.

01:02:40.000 He was the first guy.

01:02:41.000 And they gave him an assignment once without him knowing where he was looking into.

01:02:50.000 And what it turned out, he was looking into Mars one million years ago.

01:02:58.000 And when he looked into Mars a million years ago, Mars was falling apart.

01:03:05.000 And there were beings on Mars.

01:03:07.000 They were going into hibernation.

01:03:08.000 They had built pyramids and all these structures.

01:03:11.000 And they had to leave Mars because Mars was being destroyed.

01:03:14.000 Their atmosphere was being destroyed.

01:03:16.000 And they had to come to Earth.

01:03:17.000 Right.

01:03:18.000 And what he surmised from that is that what we are is the children of the people of Mars.

01:03:25.000 That's why we're so different from all the other primates.

01:03:28.000 There's a whole movie dedicated to that exact premise.

01:03:31.000 Called Mission to Mars.

01:03:31.000 Really?

01:03:33.000 Who's in it?

01:03:34.000 I don't know.

01:03:36.000 Is it Greg Kinnear, maybe?

01:03:37.000 Greg Kinnear?

01:03:38.000 No, I don't know.

01:03:39.000 Let's look at it because it's like a great movie, and it's about that at the time.

01:03:42.000 You might have seen it.

01:03:43.000 Now that I'm figuring it out.

01:03:44.000 Gary Sinise.

01:03:48.000 What year was this?

01:03:49.000 2000.

01:03:50.000 Yeah.

01:03:51.000 Okay, I don't know.

01:03:51.000 Mission to Mars.

01:03:53.000 Yeah.

01:03:54.000 And that's exactly the premise of the entire movie.

01:03:57.000 And so the premise of the movie is that these people...

01:04:06.000 Whoa.

01:04:07.000 And then, like, that's the whole thing.

01:04:09.000 And they realize that Mars...

01:04:15.000 No, not at all.

01:04:15.000 And one of the reasons why I say that is like they found recent, they've recently found structures on Mars that are so obviously man-made that it's almost impossible to deny.

01:04:28.000 I showed it to Elon, and he's like, oh, we should go look at it.

01:04:30.000 Okay, but here's the thing about like...

01:04:33.000 Do you know what I'm talking about?

01:04:34.000 No.

01:04:35.000 Show him the square on Mars.

01:04:39.000 So there's this.

01:04:41.000 In the 1970s, they took satellite photos of what looked like a face on Mars in Sidonia.

01:04:46.000 And it's kind of weird.

01:04:48.000 Kind of weird, but it's hard to say if that's like there's things on Earth that look like faces.

01:04:52.000 It is just like, it's just a natural formation.

01:04:56.000 But then they found this.

01:04:57.000 This is recent.

01:04:58.000 Look at that.

01:04:59.000 I mean, what the fuck is that, man?

01:05:01.000 Look at those right angles.

01:05:03.000 Look at that.

01:05:04.000 That's on Mars.

01:05:05.000 Yeah.

01:05:07.000 And that may have been a structure at one point.

01:05:11.000 I mean, look.

01:05:11.000 It may have, yeah.

01:05:12.000 It's too complete.

01:05:14.000 It's too square.

01:05:15.000 It's a square.

01:05:17.000 I mean, look, I would.

01:05:18.000 It actually might be a rectangle, right?

01:05:19.000 Is it kind of a rectangle?

01:05:20.000 Well, I don't know.

01:05:21.000 We'd have to measure it.

01:05:22.000 I'm sure they can measure it throughout.

01:05:26.000 Here's the thing.

01:05:27.000 When I looked up remote viewing, for example, and I really looked and did research on it, the studies that were done were kind of discredited about how the effectiveness of those actually were.

01:05:39.000 So if you really dive in, there's literature that says that it wasn't really the reason that they, you know, apparently, now this is all like conflicting information.

01:05:53.000 I had Hal put off on who was a remote viewer and who was involved in the remote viewer pro the Stargate.

01:05:58.000 Right.

01:05:58.000 So what does he say about the idea that like the actual studies were not that like conclusive and that's why they – Who's doing it?

01:06:08.000 What's the methodology?

01:06:10.000 But they were able to accurately find within a small radius a downed Russian spacecraft.

01:06:19.000 So a Russian spacecraft that re-entered orbit and crashed.

01:06:22.000 It was a spacecraft or an aircraft.

01:06:24.000 Do you remember, Jamie?

01:06:26.000 But they used remote viewers and the Russians couldn't find it and they found it.

01:06:30.000 And this is, you're talking about in like a vast expanse of wilderness.

01:06:34.000 It could have been anywhere, but they found the area where it was.

01:06:37.000 They also found a Russian factory that was making an enormous nuclear submarine.

01:06:44.000 They found it, accurately described it, the dimensions of it.

01:06:49.000 They knew where it was.

01:06:50.000 And it was an accurate location.

01:06:53.000 Not just the thing that was being hidden, but where it was, the dimensions of it.

01:06:59.000 I don't dismiss it.

01:07:01.000 I can't dismiss anything.

01:07:02.000 I just know that when I looked up UFO experiences and this disclosure stuff that's happening lately and I'm a huge, I'm not just a believer.

01:07:17.000 I pray that there is someone out there disarming nuclear missiles, especially right now.

01:07:25.000 My great hope is that there is someone just trying to not step in, but oversee it to the point where hopefully we can survive to a point of having an interstellar civilization.

01:07:39.000 It's the great dream of humanity, right?

01:07:42.000 Sure, but we have to be a different civilization than we are now.

01:07:44.000 Oh, otherwise we could do the same shit.

01:07:46.000 That's the thing is that, and that's what I, I was always, even before Elon was as famous as he is now, when I was like 15, I read his book.

01:07:57.000 And the one thing that I, I'm a friend of He read, it was like a book about him, maybe.

01:08:04.000 Okay.

01:08:05.000 And I don't remember.

01:08:06.000 But what I really wanted the focus to be on was, let's put all these resources into getting this planet right first.

01:08:17.000 Let's put everything we have.

01:08:19.000 And, you know, it felt at the time like, okay, well, yes, we're spending all this money to go off and maybe we're hopeless.

01:08:26.000 It's possible that we're hopeless.

01:08:28.000 And it sounds like that's where they err on this.

01:08:31.000 You know, it's like, oh, well, humanity on Earth is just over.

01:08:35.000 We just have to go somewhere else.

01:08:37.000 But then if we go somewhere else, we're just going to do the same thing, like you're saying.

01:08:40.000 So like all of the resources, in my opinion, should be focused on like, like there's devices that they have invented that can be put in river mouths around the world to filter out pollution and plastics going into the ocean, right?

01:08:58.000 And it's like this incredible technology.

01:09:01.000 If the budgets were spent towards these innovations, you know, and maybe AI will help it.

01:09:08.000 You know, right now AI is kind of a tax on the planet in terms of like, you know, it's not very good for it.

01:09:15.000 But maybe the AI technology itself will then invent something that makes itself more efficient for the planet.

01:09:20.000 What do you mean by AI as a tax?

01:09:22.000 Well, because the energy required for the servers and all of that is so, you know, it drains a lot of resource.

01:09:30.000 And so, but what AI may do is help us create an ion battery or something that like that like makes energy give off less, you know, you can have this much more energy with way less heat and way less.

01:09:30.000 Right, right.

01:09:44.000 And so then you can create, you know, instead of having to have giant warehouses full of servers, you can have just, you know, like, I mean, like, it's the same stuff that happened with the computer, where the computer required a giant building when it was first created.

01:10:01.000 And now you have computers smaller than a Just to be clear, Elon's position is not that Earth is like, that humans are helpless or hopeless and we have to just leave Earth.

01:10:10.000 It's not that.

01:10:11.000 It's that life is so fragile here because of the possibility, not just of us fucking it up, but of natural disasters.

01:10:20.000 And that we need to become interstellar in order to propagate life and to survive.

01:10:26.000 And so we can carry on this growth that we're involved in as a human species.

01:10:32.000 Because there's, I mean, they just, what was the number that they just found?

01:10:37.000 A bunch of new asteroids?

01:10:39.000 Like, the possibility of us being hit by a near-Earth object is extremely high over the next X amount of hundreds of years.

01:10:48.000 It's extremely high.

01:10:49.000 And these things might not wipe everything out, but they'll start civilization all over again.

01:10:53.000 They'll bring us back to cave people. 1.00

01:10:55.000 So the idea was that the more places that we are, the more likelihood that the human race survives.

01:11:01.000 It's not just that we're going to fuck this up.

01:11:04.000 And I appreciate wanting the human race to survive.

01:11:07.000 Don't get me wrong.

01:11:08.000 But it should be better than it is now.

01:11:10.000 I want us to learn our lessons on this planet.

01:11:14.000 And I think that that's even more important than surviving.

01:11:16.000 I mean, here's the thing.

01:11:17.000 When you ask yourself, when someone asks themself, have I lived a life worth living?

01:11:27.000 Is a life worth living someone who lives a very long time?

01:11:32.000 Or is a life worth living someone who's lived a good life and maybe for shorter?

01:11:37.000 So what is the ultimate effect that humanity has on the natural world and environment?

01:11:44.000 do we deserve to be spacefaring?

01:11:48.000 And if we do, then I say let's go.

01:11:52.000 Well, I mean, it's by my own individual judgment at this point, you know.

01:11:56.000 But I mean, are we better than the lions who killed the gazelles?

01:12:01.000 No, but the lions, everyone who, all the natural world works cyclically.

01:12:06.000 The way that the lion kills the gazelle and the way that the alligator takes the tourists.

01:12:13.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:12:15.000 Everything works with balance in nature.

01:12:18.000 You have just enough give and take.

01:12:20.000 It's worked that way for years.

01:12:22.000 And then, yes, extinctions, events happen, and then things die out.

01:12:27.000 But there has never been a creature on the planet with the ability like we have to take as much resource as we can without replenishing that or balancing that out.

01:12:42.000 So we, I think, have a responsibility as humanity to understand how to balance ourselves and harmonize with nature.

01:12:51.000 And I think that's where my great hope is, is that we figure out how to find a cyclical arrangement with nature where we, just like photosynthesis, just like plants give us oxygen and then the carbon dioxide we breathe and the plants then sequester.

01:13:14.000 Well, our disconnection to nature might be a part of our disconnection to psychedelics.

01:13:19.000 That might be one of the reasons why we're disconnected is we're lacking a crucial element that's there to humble the human species.

01:13:27.000 Yes.

01:13:28.000 I think that's the only thing that's the great key.

01:13:30.000 I think that's part of it.

01:13:32.000 I really do.

01:13:32.000 And I think that these monsters that were trying to silence the anti-war and the civil rights movement in the 1970s by making those things illegal, they essentially hampered our development, but not all of it, right?

01:13:47.000 So our technological development continued, but our spiritual development ceased.

01:13:51.000 Yeah, and intellect devoid of wisdom is dangerous.

01:13:56.000 Especially like overcome with ego.

01:13:56.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:13:59.000 Intellect overcome with ego is like really disgusting.

01:14:03.000 And the thing about it is that no one believes they're a monster.

01:14:07.000 Right.

01:14:08.000 Everyone justifies their behavior when they think they're doing good.

01:14:13.000 I mean, with the exception of, like I said, a few sociopathic, completely devoid of empathy individuals.

01:14:21.000 But for the most part, everyone justifies their behavior for themselves.

01:14:28.000 They judge themselves and then they somehow make it, well, because I'm doing this, because I'm doing this, I can sleep at night.

01:14:36.000 And so they let themselves sleep at night.

01:14:38.000 And a lot of times they should be looking at themselves and changing, but they don't.

01:14:44.000 So that's why my policy is I try to just always look at myself and see, is this actually beneficial for not just me, but for the people around me?

01:14:54.000 And music has been one of the great things in life that is a win-win.

01:14:59.000 It's always a win-win.

01:15:00.000 Yeah, that's a great way to look at it.

01:15:02.000 It's like, wow, I'm so lucky to just be able to observe, be able to play, be able to sleep well for the most part.

01:15:12.000 You're a chef for the soul.

01:15:15.000 Like a chef provides food.

01:15:16.000 It's a win-win.

01:15:17.000 People eat.

01:15:18.000 It's wonderful.

01:15:19.000 You enjoy the food.

01:15:20.000 It sustains you.

01:15:20.000 Oh, man.

01:15:22.000 And I think music is, that's a lot of what a musician is.

01:15:25.000 You're a chef for the soul.

01:15:26.000 Jimi Hendrix, you're a huge fan.

01:15:29.000 Huge.

01:15:29.000 Yeah.

01:15:30.000 He was, other than my dad, it was Jimmy and Stevie Ray Vaughan.

01:15:34.000 And Stevie Ray being here from Austin, I sort of had a special affinity for, even though Hendricks.

01:15:43.000 Stevie Ray is the only one who's allowed to do Voodoo Child.

01:15:46.000 Other than Hendrix.

01:15:48.000 I think you're probably right there.

01:15:50.000 I mean, other people can.

01:15:51.000 I'm just joking around.

01:15:52.000 No, no, I actually heard you say that with Charlie.

01:15:54.000 And I was like, yeah, I think I agree.

01:15:56.000 You're kind of right.

01:15:56.000 Because he's the only one that I can listen to where I go, yeah, yeah, this is like a Stevie Ray version of Voodoo Child.

01:16:02.000 Well, and he was a disciple of Hendrix.

01:16:06.000 He really sat and really lived that life.

01:16:10.000 And the thing that I've learned that was the best lesson I learned, it goes back to why I am sober now and where I'm at, is because I think the greatest lie I ever believed for so long, I did 15 years on the road, 250 shows a year.

01:16:26.000 And I told myself I had to live like my heroes in order to be, you know, and I think that's what, it didn't kill Stevie Ray, but it derailed him for a long time before he got sober.

01:16:41.000 Stevie Ray died in a tragic accident, obviously.

01:16:45.000 That's what happened.

01:16:46.000 I almost had a chance to drive him.

01:16:49.000 Really?

01:16:49.000 Yeah, I was driving limousines for this limousine company in Boston, and he was supposed to take a limousine, but he wouldn't take limousines.

01:16:57.000 He would take cabs.

01:16:59.000 He always wanted to take cabs.

01:17:00.000 So I drove this limousine.

01:17:02.000 I drove Jeff Beck once.

01:17:04.000 I drove Annie Lennox's crew.

01:17:06.000 I didn't drive.

01:17:07.000 I love Annie Lennox.

01:17:08.000 She's beautiful.

01:17:09.000 She's amazing.

01:17:10.000 I had to drop off the crew at this restaurant, and Annie Lennox was talking, and her voice was so powerful.

01:17:17.000 The way I described it, I was like, her vocal cords were made out of like piano wire because her voice was carrying in the room.

01:17:26.000 And I was, at the time, I was 20, maybe.

01:17:30.000 And I remember watching her talk, oh, this is crazy.

01:17:34.000 Like, this lady's voice is like traveling. 0.64

01:17:37.000 Like, it has a different power than everyone else in the restaurant.

01:17:43.000 The voice is such an incredible thing, is it not?

01:17:45.000 I mean, you know, the power of a vocal cord.

01:17:48.000 Like, look at James Earl Jones.

01:17:50.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:17:51.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:17:51.000 You know, like, to change.

01:17:51.000 Right?

01:17:53.000 Darth Vader, by the way.

01:17:54.000 Darth Vader.

01:17:55.000 Yeah, he is Darth Vader.

01:17:56.000 And he lived to be, what, 95, something like that.

01:17:56.000 Yeah.

01:18:00.000 How long did it?

01:18:00.000 I mean, he was crazy, and he was still doing that.

01:18:04.000 Well, yeah, there's certain wonderful.

01:18:08.000 But Stevie Ray didn't wouldn't take limos. 1.00

01:18:10.000 Like, fuck this limo.

01:18:13.000 He liked to talk to cab drivers.

01:18:14.000 He liked to get in a cab, and he liked to just keep it real.

01:18:17.000 Oh, man.

01:18:18.000 Even though he was a superstar, he didn't want to be treated like one.

01:18:20.000 He just wanted to be normal.

01:18:22.000 Some of the best conversations I've ever had have been in like Ubers or Lyfts or whatever, just sitting and chatting about where they're from and how they got there.

01:18:33.000 And there's a lot of incredible stories that perseverance.

01:18:40.000 Yeah.

01:18:40.000 You know, escaping certain situations.

01:18:43.000 Yeah, no doubt.

01:18:44.000 I mean, and then everybody's got their own little journey.

01:18:48.000 And sometimes you dip into someone's journey and go, what are you doing, man?

01:18:52.000 What's going on?

01:18:52.000 What you up to?

01:18:53.000 I always try and learn a little bit of the language, too.

01:18:56.000 Like, how do you say this?

01:18:57.000 Yeah.

01:18:58.000 You know, there's something like, there's something that just makes people, I think, really drop their defenses when you submit yourself with humility to learn their language.

01:19:09.000 Yeah.

01:19:10.000 And kind of say, you know what?

01:19:11.000 Like, look, thank you for driving me.

01:19:13.000 I'm so glad you're here.

01:19:14.000 How do you say thank you?

01:19:16.000 Right, right, right.

01:19:17.000 How do you correctly pronounce your name?

01:19:19.000 Exactly.

01:19:20.000 Yeah.

01:19:21.000 Well, you know, I work for the UFC, so there's a lot of people that I have to ask them, tell me how to say your name.

01:19:28.000 Because some of these names are just insane.

01:19:30.000 Like some of the names from Dagestan or from, you know, Kazakhstan.

01:19:35.000 There's so many places where it's like, Shavkot Rachmanov, like, Jesus Christ.

01:19:40.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:19:40.000 It takes forever.

01:19:41.000 And I have to, I can't fuck their names up.

01:19:43.000 No, I'm glad that you think that.

01:19:45.000 Yeah.

01:19:45.000 Because that's a beautiful thing.

01:19:47.000 Well, it's interesting.

01:19:48.000 I'm fascinated by the different sounds that people choose to use as their language in different places.

01:19:54.000 It's like human beings evolved in all these different places with all these different ways of communicating.

01:20:01.000 Oh, yeah.

01:20:01.000 They're all different.

01:20:03.000 What's the clicking in Africa? 0.98

01:20:07.000 There's a musician, and I can't remember for the life of me her name, which is it maybe Angelique Kijo, but no.

01:20:13.000 But she sings and she uses the clicks and then just does this sort of, oh my gosh, it's the clicks in her singing.

01:20:21.000 Inner music.

01:20:22.000 Oh, it's so beautiful.

01:20:23.000 Oh, man.

01:20:24.000 You got to wonder, like, what caused them to develop that kind of language, you know?

01:20:28.000 It's like they're all developing it in a vacuum, right?

01:20:32.000 Because they're all the people in that area, in that community, generation after generation after generation, all agree to communicate in this certain way.

01:20:40.000 Yeah.

01:20:40.000 You know, and then they run into people in China and you're like, well, Jesus, this is so different.

01:20:44.000 And in China, there's like, I don't know how many different dialects.

01:20:47.000 Oh, yeah.

01:20:48.000 Yeah.

01:20:49.000 And they're completely different.

01:20:51.000 Oh, yeah.

01:20:51.000 Well, my grandparents were from Italy and they spoke a Sicilian dialect.

01:20:55.000 Oh, I'm Sicilian too.

01:20:56.000 On the mother's side, yeah. 0.91

01:20:56.000 Oh, that's right. 0.91

01:20:58.000 But I remember me like learning Italian in college, and it was so different than the way that they were speaking Italian.

01:21:08.000 Well, and I think, I'm not certain, but Dean Martin had a specific, and it may have been Sicilian or maybe a specific Northern Italian or Napoli, maybe it's certainly.

01:21:22.000 But the way that he would sing Domenico Modugno's song, you know, volare tenso que un sonio cosino ne toni ma pio.

01:21:30.000 Vola.

01:21:32.000 And he would do it, and he'd go, you know, he'd have these like slang.

01:21:32.000 Right.

01:21:38.000 In his version, it's quite different.

01:21:40.000 The Italian, if you listen to both of them together.

01:21:43.000 Interesting.

01:21:43.000 It's really interesting, yeah.

01:21:44.000 Yeah, dialects are weird, right?

01:21:46.000 Because people learn how.

01:21:48.000 Well, I mean, look at in America, right?

01:21:50.000 You can go to like New Orleans and people have a completely different way of talking than people do in New York City.

01:21:56.000 Oh, yeah.

01:21:57.000 Yeah.

01:21:58.000 Have you heard about the new, speaking of AI, the new adventures that we're now embarking on?

01:22:05.000 Some scientists, they're like using AI to communicate with animals, like whales.

01:22:09.000 I saw that with cats.

01:22:11.000 I saw that today, that AI.

01:22:13.000 You saw it today?

01:22:14.000 Yes.

01:22:15.000 AI is translating cat language with like 95% accuracy.

01:22:20.000 They think they know what cats are saying to each other now.

01:22:24.000 Do you think that will have an effect on how we treat animals if we're able to communicate with them?

01:22:28.000 Probably, yeah.

01:22:29.000 Well, I'm sure you've seen dogs when people say, I love you, and they go, Yeah, yeah.

01:22:34.000 You know, like, there's something there.

01:22:36.000 Yeah, they're trying to say, I love you.

01:22:38.000 They just don't have the same lips.

01:22:39.000 Yeah.

01:22:40.000 And they're very, dogs will, you know, they're very good at mimicking and behavior.

01:22:47.000 Well, they certainly understand language because I talk to my dog like a person.

01:22:51.000 I talk to him.

01:22:52.000 Like, I can say, come on, man, is it time to go outside?

01:22:55.000 What do you want to do?

01:22:56.000 You want to get crazy?

01:22:57.000 And they're like, hmm?

01:22:59.000 You want to go outside?

01:23:00.000 Like, he knows what I'm saying.

01:23:02.000 Like, I don't have to say it in a certain tone.

01:23:04.000 I can just say it.

01:23:06.000 He knows.

01:23:07.000 It's funny, my dad, you know, Roger Miller.

01:23:09.000 You ever hear Roger Miller?

01:23:10.000 It's Roger Miller.

01:23:12.000 Trailers for sale or rent.

01:23:15.000 Room select 50 cents.

01:23:17.000 You know, King of the Road?

01:23:19.000 Oh, really?

01:23:19.000 King of the Road.

01:23:21.000 So my dad and him were good friends, and he used to tell a lot of great jokes.

01:23:27.000 But one of them was, it's true, they say, you start looking like your dog.

01:23:31.000 just got chewed out by the neighbor for shitting in their front yard.

01:23:39.000 My dad has so many amazing jokes.

01:23:43.000 Well, it must have been really interesting, the people that your dad brought around.

01:23:48.000 Yeah.

01:23:49.000 Yeah, well, one of the greatest moments I ever felt like I was a part of was just a sort of a normal afternoon.

01:24:00.000 And I was in Hawaii, and I was at my parents' house there.

01:24:04.000 And it was me and Dad.

01:24:06.000 We're sitting around, and Chris Christopherson walks by, and walks in.

01:24:10.000 They're on their way to the airport or coming from the airport or whatever.

01:24:13.000 And in walks in with him, Muhammad Ali.

01:24:16.000 Whoa.

01:24:17.000 And so I'm sitting there, and me and Dad are just picking.

01:24:21.000 And Muhammad comes and sits down. 0.91

01:24:23.000 And Chris is on one side of him, and Dad's on the other, and I'm the one who got the guitar.

01:24:29.000 And so we Just start singing for him.

01:24:31.000 And he's shaking, he can't speak, really, you know.

01:24:34.000 But you could just see me and dad and Chris were just like serenading Muhammad Ali one afternoon.

01:24:40.000 Wow.

01:24:41.000 And we sang, Help Me Make It Through the Night.

01:24:43.000 We sang Always On My Mind.

01:24:45.000 I sang one of my songs, you know.

01:24:46.000 So it's just like, it was like a beautiful afternoon.

01:24:50.000 I'll never forget that moment.

01:24:52.000 It must have been so strange to be constantly surrounded by these exceptional people.

01:24:57.000 Not just exceptional, but exceptional worldwide, like the way they're received worldwide.

01:25:02.000 Like these are like iconic humans.

01:25:04.000 Like Chris Christopherson is like an iconic human being.

01:25:07.000 Muhammad Ali is an iconic human being.

01:25:09.000 Yes, he's.

01:25:14.000 And the key language there is a human being, well-rounded, thoughtful, empathetic.

01:25:22.000 I mean, wise.

01:25:25.000 And these people are, you know, they made their life their work.

01:25:29.000 Jimi Hendrix, I think, was famous in saying that your art isn't just the music, it's your life.

01:25:36.000 You make your life the work of art.

01:25:38.000 And that's what, I mean, he had no problem with all the colors that he used in his whole life.

01:25:45.000 He had no problem expressing himself in many other forms other than how he dressed and how he worked.

01:25:51.000 Everything was an expression of who he was in his art.

01:25:56.000 And I'm grateful to have been exposed to a lot of those people in my life.

01:26:01.000 It's just a very exceptional childhood in that regard, right?

01:26:04.000 Because for some people, they grow up.

01:26:06.000 And I remember the first time I ever met a really famous person, I was like, whoa, this is weird.

01:26:11.000 It was probably my 20.

01:26:13.000 Other than seeing Jeff Beck and seeing Annie Lennox, I never really met them.

01:26:17.000 I didn't really start meeting famous people until I became a comedian and then really meeting famous people until I got on television.

01:26:23.000 And then it was just, it was odd.

01:26:26.000 It was just so odd.

01:26:27.000 And still to this day, sometimes I'll have someone in here.

01:26:30.000 I had Bono in here.

01:26:31.000 And it's just weird to me.

01:26:33.000 One of my first Bono memories, I was like 25 years ago.

01:26:36.000 I was doing mushrooms and I was listening to In God's Country.

01:26:39.000 And I got to tell that to Bono.

01:26:41.000 I was like, it was one of the wildest versions of your song.

01:26:41.000 Wow.

01:26:44.000 It was like looking out over this canyon while that song was playing.

01:26:48.000 It's beautiful, though.

01:26:49.000 Oh, it's amazing for me.

01:26:49.000 Yeah.

01:26:51.000 But it's just weird, you know, to just accept that they're human beings because you see them on television, you see them in all these things, and you grow to realize, like, oh, we're all just human beings.

01:27:03.000 And that's part of the lesson of it is to meet someone who you don't think is just a human being.

01:27:08.000 And you realize, like, oh, all of us are human beings.

01:27:12.000 That's a great lesson.

01:27:13.000 I mean, and when I think that I was able to understand fame and its trappings at a young age, and that's something I'm also very grateful for, that I, you know, I was able to see, like, okay, a lot of dad's friends, a lot of the people that I grew up around, didn't make it very long because they got into this or they got into that.

01:27:35.000 And I see it all happening a lot to a lot of young people that are unable to handle fame.

01:27:41.000 Oh, yeah.

01:27:42.000 And fame is not inherently a good thing.

01:27:45.000 I think it's actually probably a net negative, although it's a necessary thing if you want your art to get out to as many people as possible or if you want to create a living.

01:27:54.000 Like, I don't depend on my parents, so I want my music to get out there so that I'll have a career when I'm 90.

01:28:00.000 I want to be playing, you know, I don't want to, I don't, I mean, eventually I have to keep making a living, you know.

01:28:06.000 So you have to be a little famous.

01:28:07.000 I have to, you think there's a part of you that, you know, part of the entertainment world where you have to make sure, you have to put yourself out there.

01:28:17.000 And that's kind of despite knowing that when you put yourself out there, then all the, you know, that you get unwanted attention too.

01:28:26.000 I think one of the worst things about it is the scammers on the internet.

01:28:30.000 There's so many scammers now on Instagram and Facebook and everyone, and they prey on elderly people.

01:28:38.000 And they prey on...

01:28:38.000 Oh, yeah.

01:28:41.000 They pretend that they're me.

01:28:43.000 And they go out there, and these people are, I think they're the lowest form on this planet, really.

01:28:50.000 Because these are people that have dementia issues.

01:28:53.000 They have, you know, they're elderly, you know, and they prey on that demographic specifically because they know that they're more gullible and don't understand technology.

01:29:05.000 And they think that I'm talking to them and they'll give, in some cases, thousands and thousands of dollars of their own savings in my name.

01:29:13.000 And that has almost made me get off the internet many times.

01:29:17.000 But even so, what happens when I get off is then they just run rampant.

01:29:22.000 You know, they create new accounts and then the people that are, you know, sort of, and they don't want to believe it's not me.

01:29:29.000 Of course.

01:29:29.000 You know, and so like the people that are caught in it get caught and they get hooked.

01:29:34.000 You know.

01:29:34.000 I remember watching this documentary once and it was about people that get scammed romantically online.

01:29:41.000 Right.

01:29:41.000 And there's this guy who's this lonely man who's in his 60s and he had this girlfriend that he was communicating with in Europe that was non-existent.

01:29:51.000 And he flew over there twice to meet her and every time she conveniently couldn't meet him.

01:29:56.000 Totally.

01:29:56.000 And his daughter rather was trying to explain to him that it wasn't real, that he was getting scammed, that he didn't want to believe it.

01:30:05.000 And in the documentary, you could see this guy coming to grips with it, but not wanting to believe it.

01:30:10.000 And like, oh, something just came up.

01:30:12.000 She couldn't go.

01:30:13.000 She loves me.

01:30:14.000 It's the saddest thing.

01:30:16.000 That just happened to us recently.

01:30:17.000 I played a show with Eric Church at Chiefs, and I had a bunch of friends there and everything.

01:30:21.000 And we had someone show up at the door saying that they had been put on the list by me, that I was in a relationship with that person.

01:30:31.000 You said they weren't just schizophrenic?

01:30:33.000 Well, these people are, in some cases, schizophrenic, or they have Alzheimer's or dementia or memory issues or whatever.

01:30:40.000 But a lot of times they're just being catfished, you know, or just like, you know, like, I mean, I've seen, there is that show Catfish that was on TV not too long ago.

01:30:51.000 I don't know if it's still around, but like these are otherwise sort of normal people that get tricked into believing they're in a relationship and they have a girlfriend and they're online and they get to the place.

01:31:00.000 And these are like sometimes younger people that even get – For sure.

01:31:11.000 yeah, well, it's just the perils of dealing with this non-material world, yeah, dealing with the internet world.

01:31:19.000 I mean, and I'm sure it happened in some ways back in the day, you know, with letters and things like that.

01:31:24.000 Well, it happened with everything.

01:31:25.000 I mean, snake oil salesman.

01:31:26.000 I mean, I was reading some.

01:31:28.000 Oh, no, I was watching Cody Tucker today.

01:31:31.000 He had something about this guy who was treating people for cataracts, and it didn't really treat them.

01:31:38.000 It actually blinded them.

01:31:40.000 And he had done it to two different famous composers.

01:31:44.000 This one guy was like, and he was a traveling guy.

01:31:47.000 He would go from town to town and do things like that.

01:31:50.000 There's always been people like that.

01:31:53.000 And you ask yourself, do those people have any conscience?

01:31:58.000 You know, at that certain point, what are they telling themselves to justify their behavior?

01:32:04.000 Yeah, they're probably just getting by, and probably they've been fucked over, too.

01:32:08.000 Most of those people have been fucked over to the point where they can justify fucking over other people.

01:32:13.000 Like, those people have it coming.

01:32:15.000 Someone did it to me.

01:32:16.000 I'm going to do it to them.

01:32:18.000 This is the game we play.

01:32:19.000 What is the antidote to that?

01:32:23.000 You know, I think those people exist so you can appreciate people that don't do that.

01:32:28.000 Yeah.

01:32:29.000 I think that's where heartless, nasty, vicious people exist.

01:32:34.000 It's like have you ever been in a relationship with someone who's just like a real shithead, just mean, nasty, insulting.

01:32:41.000 Gaslighty.

01:32:42.000 Yeah, and trying to diminish you as a person.

01:32:45.000 And then you meet someone who's not like that, and you're like, oh, if I didn't know someone who sucked, maybe I wouldn't appreciate this person.

01:32:52.000 Totally.

01:32:53.000 You know, and like, that's the beauty.

01:32:55.000 Like, one time, me and my friend Brian, we went on this hunting trip with my friend Steve Ranella to this island in Alaska.

01:33:04.000 And we were there for a week, getting rained on every day.

01:33:07.000 It was miserable.

01:33:09.000 Just freezing, shivering every day for a week.

01:33:12.000 Then I came back to L.A. and the sun felt so good.

01:33:18.000 It never felt that good.

01:33:19.000 I've been living in L.A. for 25 fucking years.

01:33:21.000 It never felt that good.

01:33:23.000 But I appreciated the sun.

01:33:24.000 Why did I appreciate the sun?

01:33:25.000 Because I had just been rained on for a week.

01:33:28.000 I had taken it for granted.

01:33:29.000 This beautiful, amazing sunlight that I just go, oh, it's a fucking sunny day.

01:33:35.000 Where's my sunglasses?

01:33:36.000 Let me drive to work and get inside real quick because it's too fucking bright out.

01:33:41.000 But because of the rain for a week of rain, I really felt it.

01:33:46.000 And I remember calling my friend Steve.

01:33:47.000 I have never been happier.

01:33:49.000 And that's why, is because it sucked for a week.

01:33:52.000 And I think you need that.

01:33:54.000 I think you need shitty people so that you appreciate good people.

01:33:57.000 And I think when you meet someone who's gaslighty and someone who tries to ruin your life, those people exist so that you can appreciate people that aren't like that.

01:34:08.000 The yin and yang of life.

01:34:10.000 Another great example of that is when you have to pee so bad.

01:34:14.000 Right?

01:34:15.000 And then that moment when you get to the toilet and it's beer drinkers understand that.

01:34:21.000 Oh man, yeah.

01:34:22.000 Or when you're sick and you, you know, and then you're like, oh man, it's almost like you can't even remember how it felt to feel good.

01:34:28.000 And then when you feel good, you're like, oh, wow, I'm so grateful that I feel good.

01:34:32.000 It's an amazing feeling.

01:34:34.000 Yeah.

01:34:34.000 And that is the thing we take for granted more than anything is personal health.

01:34:38.000 And you give up personal health for short-time, short-term experiences.

01:34:43.000 Like, you know, drinking.

01:34:44.000 Like, drinking is terrible for your health.

01:34:47.000 But you give it up.

01:34:48.000 You give up these little chunks of your health for these small bursts of release of inhibition.

01:34:55.000 Right.

01:34:56.000 Yeah, I never really liked it anyways.

01:34:58.000 It never really actually put me in.

01:35:01.000 Too often, I always was like, yeah, I wish I hadn't.

01:35:07.000 It puts you in bad spots.

01:35:08.000 Yeah.

01:35:09.000 I feel like I think the people, and I've read this, that the people who actually sort of drink and become happy or the life of the party or whatever are the ones who are more likely to become addicted, obviously.

01:35:23.000 Oh, for sure.

01:35:24.000 You know, because there are two types of people that when they drink, like for me, when I drink, it kind of makes me think more and I get kind of depressed and I get kind of down.

01:35:34.000 I don't really actually.

01:35:35.000 Well, you're a sensitive artist, literally.

01:35:38.000 That's literally what you do.

01:35:41.000 Hold on.

01:35:44.000 Now you can lean into that.

01:35:44.000 You're right.

01:35:47.000 That's a weird thing, too.

01:35:48.000 People lean into that sensitivity.

01:35:50.000 They lean into it.

01:35:51.000 They carry it around as a badge of courage.

01:35:53.000 You know, it's just fine.

01:35:54.000 It's okay.

01:35:55.000 But, you know, those are the type of people that, I mean, that's why it feels so good for them.

01:36:01.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:36:03.000 When you know, you drink and then you just become overly sensitive and think about things.

01:36:09.000 It's just like, it's because you have a lot of empathy.

01:36:11.000 And the alcohol, the release of inhibition makes you be overwhelmed by the empathy.

01:36:16.000 Yeah.

01:36:16.000 Be overwhelmed by thinking.

01:36:18.000 I mean, you know, the world is filled with a lot of weird shit, man.

01:36:20.000 And it's like there's all these different channels that you can tune into.

01:36:24.000 All these different things that you can focus on.

01:36:26.000 Yeah.

01:36:27.000 I think that, you know, the ice bath analogy for me is like, I love the clarity that I get after an ice bath.

01:36:36.000 And I feel like sobriety gives me that.

01:36:39.000 You know, it's just like, it's just like this great, awake, alive feeling.

01:36:43.000 And I'm living in that clarity.

01:36:46.000 Yeah, it's a perfect example.

01:36:47.000 Because you have to go through it to get there.

01:36:50.000 You get out of that ice bath, you feel so fucking good.

01:36:52.000 Why do you feel so fucking good?

01:36:53.000 Because for three minutes, you feel like you're going to die.

01:36:56.000 Exactly.

01:36:56.000 That's literally the benefit of it.

01:36:59.000 And what's fascinating to me is I watch all these people try to dismiss it, and all these people try to say, you know, it's foolish and silly.

01:37:06.000 The one thing that those people all have in common, the dismissers, is they all lack discipline. 0.95

01:37:12.000 They all are fighting it intellectually.

01:37:14.000 They're fighting whatever that fucking mid-cingulate cortex. 0.90

01:37:19.000 Anterior mid-cingulate cortex.

01:37:21.000 Yeah, theirs is weak as fuck.

01:37:23.000 And they don't like it.

01:37:24.000 And so they try to diminish the people that do have it.

01:37:28.000 They try to diminish it, which is just a compensation thing that people do.

01:37:32.000 People are always doing that.

01:37:34.000 And you know, those voices are important too, because those voices, like, you go, oh, I know why you're doing that.

01:37:38.000 Even the gaslighty people, like, oh, I know why you're doing that.

01:37:41.000 Well, it's helped me get through life understanding people and that their behavior comes from their own trauma and their own past.

01:37:52.000 Sure, and the thing that you hate in other people, oftentimes you hate it because you're terrified of seeing it in yourself.

01:37:57.000 Well, that's the great lesson.

01:38:03.000 And it doesn't mean that – I think it doesn't mean that you are that.

01:38:09.000 Oh, yeah.

01:38:10.000 Yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean you are that.

01:38:12.000 But I think that, yes, it's like what you're most afraid of, you know.

01:38:18.000 Because you know it exists in you.

01:38:19.000 Because everything exists in all of us.

01:38:21.000 We're the exploded universe in manifested motion.

01:38:25.000 We are the unfolding universe every moment.

01:38:28.000 Yeah, and when you get angry at foolishness that you see in other people, what you're angry at is that that thing could be in you.

01:38:38.000 And it is in you.

01:38:39.000 It's just you haven't fed it.

01:38:40.000 It's the wolf you haven't fed.

01:38:42.000 Yeah, and discipline helps with that.

01:38:43.000 It helps you to understand that you are responsible for your feelings.

01:38:48.000 Yes.

01:38:49.000 You're responsible for your feelings.

01:38:49.000 Yeah.

01:38:51.000 And also, like, there's things that you can do that can make life more bearable.

01:38:56.000 And one of those things is physical exertion.

01:39:00.000 It makes life more bearable.

01:39:01.000 And the way I realize this is when I don't exercise for like three or four days in a row, which is very rare.

01:39:06.000 Oh, yeah.

01:39:07.000 But when it does happen, I start getting really weird and anxious.

01:39:10.000 And I'm like, oh, my God, people are like this all day.

01:39:12.000 Like, some people are like this their whole life, where they're just riddled with anxiety.

01:39:16.000 And everything is a crisis.

01:39:18.000 Every little mo, every fucking moment is unbearable. 0.89

01:39:22.000 I'm like, oh, this makes sense.

01:39:24.000 This makes sense in our sedentary, weird world where people are just sitting and staring at a screen all day and, you know, and not doing things.

01:39:34.000 So you're not, you don't have, you don't have meaning, right?

01:39:38.000 And then you're just overwhelmed.

01:39:40.000 Yeah.

01:39:41.000 And then, you know, then you find a protest and go out there and start fucking screaming in the streets.

01:39:46.000 Well, I think there's more to that than that.

01:39:48.000 But yes, I agree.

01:39:49.000 I mean, I think.

01:39:50.000 A lot of it is that, though.

01:39:51.000 A lot of it is that.

01:39:52.000 A lot of what people protest.

01:39:54.000 A lot of protests have real good purpose behind them.

01:39:57.000 But a lot of the people participating in those protests are looking for meaning in their life.

01:40:00.000 And they don't have it anywhere else.

01:40:02.000 Yes, well, and look, we need those people, too.

01:40:07.000 We need those people to drive change.

01:40:09.000 Sure, if they're organic.

01:40:11.000 And again, the problem with this world is that those things are manipulated.

01:40:18.000 You have to be weaponized.

01:40:21.000 It's important that you don't let your emotions be manipulated.

01:40:24.000 I think that's one of the great lessons in this wild world that we're in.

01:40:28.000 I mean, that's what I try the most.

01:40:30.000 That's why I try not to make concrete statements unless I know at least where I err on is like, okay, this is the compassionate thing to support or do.

01:40:43.000 I have a charity that I work with called Music Heals International.

01:40:48.000 And it's a music school in Haiti, in Venezuela, in India.

01:40:54.000 I think there's a presence here too.

01:40:57.000 And it's just, I know that I can, in concrete, create ways, make someone's life more joyful on a face-to-face basis.

01:41:06.000 David Blaine was telling me about, I met David Blaine one time, and he's a cool guy.

01:41:13.000 Very cool guy.

01:41:14.000 And we were discussing that it's almost more powerful to be at a hospital and go and talk to the kids that you're supporting in this hospital rather than to donate to that hospital.

01:41:29.000 I think there's just something so spiritually significant about being with the people that you're helping and the joy in that being reciprocated and that feeling of being at the, you know, just giving is joy, you know, ultimately.

01:41:46.000 I think that's a really cool thing.

01:41:48.000 You know, like there's a great quote, a man slept and dreamt that life was joy.

01:41:54.000 He awoke and found that life was service.

01:41:57.000 He acted and behold, service was joy.

01:42:02.000 And I like that.

01:42:02.000 Always remember that.

01:42:04.000 There's definitely something to that, right?

01:42:06.000 Making people feel good is selfish.

01:42:08.000 And it's a joy and it's a win-win.

01:42:08.000 It is.

01:42:10.000 Yeah, it's a win-win.

01:42:12.000 Like you get rewarded for being nice.

01:42:14.000 Yeah.

01:42:14.000 And I mean, there's a also I don't like, I think the word kind is more appropriate.

01:42:20.000 Because people can be nice and not good, but I don't think you can truly be kind and not mean it.

01:42:26.000 Because if you're kind, you actually are thinking.

01:42:29.000 Yeah, you feel it.

01:42:30.000 Where others, you're just being polite.

01:42:32.000 Yeah.

01:42:34.000 And you can say the right words with like a shitty feeling to it, like, have a good day.

01:42:39.000 And you're like, ew.

01:42:40.000 Yeah.

01:42:40.000 Fuck you.

01:42:41.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:42:41.000 Yeah.

01:42:42.000 Yeah.

01:42:43.000 I know what's behind that.

01:42:44.000 British people are really good at that.

01:42:46.000 You know, they're really good at saying the right words with like a county attitude behind it.

01:42:46.000 Yeah.

01:42:51.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:42:52.000 Because that's part of their culture.

01:42:53.000 It's like keeping up appearances.

01:42:55.000 Well, I mean, in a way, it's part of every culture.

01:42:58.000 Sure.

01:42:59.000 And I think that, you know, yeah, keeping up appearances, you know, keeping up.

01:43:04.000 Well, it's one of the things I hated the most about Los Angeles.

01:43:07.000 It's like the hollowness of communication.

01:43:10.000 That's my bias against actors because I encountered so many people that were like artificial constructs.

01:43:20.000 Well, I loved it there when I went, and I still love it when I go.

01:43:24.000 I mean, I've spent a lot of time.

01:43:25.000 Yeah, I lived there for 10 years.

01:43:26.000 Where'd you live?

01:43:27.000 In Venice.

01:43:28.000 Okay, well, that's a little different.

01:43:30.000 Venice is kind of an art.

01:43:33.000 At least it was before it was overwhelmed with homeless people.

01:43:35.000 Here's what I think about Los Angeles is Los Angeles is like the cave in Star Wars, an Empire Strikes Back.

01:43:43.000 And when Luke asks Yoda, what's in there, and he says, only what you take with you.

01:43:47.000 Because you can go to LA and find any type of energy.

01:43:52.000 You can go to LA and find any type of person.

01:43:55.000 There's groups of really amazing people, and there's groups of people who are lost, you know.

01:43:59.000 And there's different areas, and there's different places where these different types of people congregate.

01:44:05.000 But LA is a very powerful place.

01:44:08.000 It's a lot of moving place, you know, and I prefer to be in places that there's less movement.

01:44:16.000 I live in Maui.

01:44:17.000 I have my friends in Maui.

01:44:18.000 My best buddy, Matt Miola, is a professional surfer, and he's a bow hunter.

01:44:24.000 And my friend Ollie works construction.

01:44:28.000 And when I go home to Maui, I like a simple life.

01:44:33.000 They're all fishermen.

01:44:35.000 I like to go out there and that's how I want to raise my kids.

01:44:40.000 I want to be out there in nature.

01:44:42.000 I want to be giving and taking with the land.

01:44:44.000 And I want to be able to understand the planet that I live on by working with the earth and working with, and that community in Maui there is a really special place.

01:44:56.000 Well, I think Hawaii in general is a very special place because it's surrounded by ocean.

01:45:01.000 And I think there's something about the ocean that gives you humility.

01:45:05.000 And it lets you understand that you're a part of nature.

01:45:08.000 Yeah, we came from it.

01:45:08.000 That's where we came from.

01:45:09.000 And not only that, it's so huge and massive and overwhelming.

01:45:13.000 It's like the mountains.

01:45:14.000 Mountains have a similar effect.

01:45:16.000 It's like they're so vast, you can't have much of an ego when you're in their presence.

01:45:23.000 My other favorite place is Montana.

01:45:25.000 There you go.

01:45:26.000 Mountains.

01:45:27.000 Other than, you know, yeah, I mean, anywhere there's nature, but I really like, being in the mountains of Montana and being on Hawaii, there's only a few places in life that I actually am sad when I leave.

01:45:40.000 Like I get really upset when I leave.

01:45:42.000 You know, it's like breaking up with someone, you know, when you have to leave.

01:45:45.000 Yeah.

01:45:47.000 When you write, do you have a purpose in mind?

01:45:50.000 Or do you just sit down and try to find out what comes to mind or do you have a thought in your head before you write?

01:45:56.000 My best work comes, it just, it's like a conduit.

01:46:02.000 It like comes from another place.

01:46:03.000 And I hear like when I was 11, I wrote this song called You Were It.

01:46:12.000 And I was on the school bus and I started hearing this song in my head.

01:46:16.000 And I realized that it hadn't been written yet.

01:46:19.000 It was something that was coming from, I guess, my own experiences, but also filtered through somewhere else.

01:46:26.000 It felt like it came from somewhere, like it was a download.

01:46:30.000 And I think that I look at writing as if there's a beautiful muse sitting there, and she's giving me these gifts every once in a while, and that she sends them to me.

01:46:44.000 And if I'm open and clear and not in my own way, and I'm, you know, if I get like something that hits me, like a clever line, like there's a song I have called Find Yourself, and I hope you find yourself before I find somebody else to be my love.

01:46:59.000 And I start singing that in my head, and I start like, oh, the melody comes, and it's a gift.

01:47:05.000 And wherever I'm at, if I got one right now, I'd have to write it down while we were talking.

01:47:10.000 You know what I mean?

01:47:11.000 I'll be like, hold on, let's write a song.

01:47:11.000 I have to sit down.

01:47:15.000 But I try not to, I can't force her to send me because they're gifts.

01:47:22.000 And it's like my dad always says, like waiting for the rain to fill up the well.

01:47:26.000 You can't force the rain to come.

01:47:28.000 You just have to wait.

01:47:29.000 And the real stuff comes when you just allow yourself to receive it.

01:47:33.000 And I think I like what you just said, too, about getting out of your own way.

01:47:36.000 Because that's the thing.

01:47:36.000 Yeah.

01:47:37.000 It's like these ideas are out there, but you're so in your own head and so worried about yourself and your own bullshit that sometimes like you block them.

01:47:47.000 Yeah.

01:47:47.000 Because all of your attention is on yourself.

01:47:50.000 I mean, you know, and you overthink it and you overanalyze it.

01:47:50.000 Oh, yeah.

01:47:54.000 How am I going to look?

01:47:56.000 Is it going to be cool?

01:47:58.000 People are going to like it.

01:47:59.000 That's the big one.

01:48:01.000 I think a lot of people get caught up in like, well, you know, like this latest record, you know, people, like, I didn't want to be too flowery with it.

01:48:11.000 I wanted to write simply what came to me.

01:48:14.000 And sometimes the songs are simple.

01:48:16.000 And I think that simplicity for some people can be like, oh, well, what about the intricate arrangements?

01:48:22.000 And what about the long jams and the exploration?

01:48:25.000 Like, that's not what came to me.

01:48:27.000 And I can't cater to those people.

01:48:30.000 Right now, where my heart is, is Zen.

01:48:34.000 I'm trying to be as simple as I can be in terms of just only putting out what comes to me at the moment.

01:48:41.000 And sometimes people aren't going to like it because they're used to me rocking and jamming and doing all that or they're used to me doing that.

01:48:47.000 But that'll come back.

01:48:49.000 It'll come back around.

01:48:51.000 There's a time and a place for everything.

01:48:53.000 And right now, I have to be open to it as it comes, not as I want it to be or as I think other people will want it to be.

01:49:01.000 That's it.

01:49:02.000 Right.

01:49:03.000 Yeah.

01:49:03.000 You just have to, whatever, the thing has to be kind of pure in its form.

01:49:08.000 Yeah.

01:49:08.000 And don't over-molest it with a bunch of different production values and fucking layers and stuff.

01:49:16.000 Yes, exactly.

01:49:18.000 And I prefer, I mean, when I listen to my heroes, you know, Hank Williams, Dad, Merle Haggard, Stevie Ray and Jimmy are, look, what came to Jimmy was an explosion of color and sound.

01:49:35.000 I mean, when I hear his music, I see colors that are like I can't even describe in real life.

01:49:40.000 Right.

01:49:41.000 It might have something to do with the psychedelics that I also took.

01:49:44.000 But at the same time, I think that other people— And that's the thing, is that he, it goes back to what we're saying, like the state of mind that he was in.

01:49:53.000 100%.

01:49:53.000 He captured and he put it out.

01:49:56.000 Imagine writing Voodoo Child if you're sober.

01:49:59.000 Yeah, you know, like, yeah, exactly.

01:50:01.000 And there's a time and a place for it, you know.

01:50:04.000 You know, and but, you know, I have hundreds of songs I have not released that I wrote at different times in my life.

01:50:04.000 Yeah.

01:50:11.000 And I'll eventually put them all out, hopefully, if I'm lucky.

01:50:15.000 Did you just go back to them and look at them every now and then?

01:50:17.000 Like, how do you file them away?

01:50:19.000 Do you have them on a couple of them?

01:50:20.000 I have them on a Dropbox file.

01:50:22.000 Oh, okay.

01:50:23.000 So every now and then you check them out.

01:50:24.000 A couple hundred songs in there, more probably now, because I write them all the time, you know.

01:50:28.000 And, yeah, it's like, it's just kind of, it just looks like...

01:50:33.000 sometimes it's like, God, I wrote another one, it's going to go there.

01:50:36.000 And then that one shoots to the top of the list of the one you're interested in because you just wrote it.

01:50:40.000 And then something that might be really great just gets kind of pushed down.

01:50:45.000 And then like, so what really, you really have to do is each project that comes up, you have to say, what am I trying to get across right now?

01:50:54.000 And it's not about whether a song is better or worse.

01:50:56.000 It's about what am I trying to say and how do I present that?

01:51:01.000 And so I have to collect 10 or 12 or 14 songs that kind of fit in a narrative that you're trying to put out there.

01:51:11.000 And do you write pen to paper or do you write on a computer?

01:51:15.000 Like, how do you do it for the most part?

01:51:16.000 You write on your phone.

01:51:17.000 I do it for the most part.

01:51:18.000 Really?

01:51:19.000 Well, because I have fast thumbs.

01:51:19.000 Yeah.

01:51:21.000 Okay.

01:51:22.000 And my brain works really fast.

01:51:23.000 And when I get really excited, I'll write it down there.

01:51:26.000 I can read it properly.

01:51:28.000 Sometimes I'll write on a piece of paper, don't get me wrong.

01:51:31.000 Do you ever talk it to your phone?

01:51:34.000 I use voice memo to record everything.

01:51:38.000 So a lot of the demos that I have are just voice memo to phone because my brain's working fast and this thing works pretty fast.

01:51:45.000 Yeah, you know, voice memo has a transcription aspect to it too now.

01:51:49.000 Oh, I didn't even realize that.

01:51:50.000 Yeah, yeah, I've been using that a lot.

01:51:52.000 So when you, it works on both Android and on iPhones.

01:51:56.000 Yeah.

01:51:57.000 But when you make a voice note, it can transcribe it now.

01:52:01.000 So like what I'll do is I'll record sets.

01:52:05.000 And sometimes we do this show at the Comedy Mothership called Bottom of the Barrel where you have like a whiskey barrel and inside is all suggestions from the audience.

01:52:13.000 You just put your hand in there and pick out a piece of paper and pull it out.

01:52:16.000 It's like tomato soup or whatever.

01:52:17.000 Right, right.

01:52:18.000 And you just have to start talking about it, try to find something in there.

01:52:20.000 And every now and then, it's like one out of X amount of times you have a genuine idea that becomes a bit.

01:52:28.000 And the best way for me to fish those out is to go over the transcription instead of just listening to myself for an hour.

01:52:35.000 Yeah.

01:52:36.000 I mean, that's great.

01:52:37.000 I didn't realize that was a feature, and I'm going to start using it.

01:52:40.000 Yeah, it's pretty dope because you can just talk and it'll transcribe it, and then you can copy and paste that transcription into voice note or into notes.

01:52:48.000 Oh.

01:52:49.000 And even notes itself has a voice memo aspect to it now.

01:52:53.000 Oh, wow.

01:52:54.000 So if you go to just when you're in notes on an iPhone, you can actually make a voice memo, voice note from that, and it'll transcribe that for you.

01:53:03.000 When you're doing a set, do you have people put their phones away?

01:53:07.000 Yes.

01:53:08.000 Yeah.

01:53:08.000 Yeah, the club has.

01:53:09.000 The club does that.

01:53:11.000 Most comedians do that, right?

01:53:12.000 Because they're trying a lot of material.

01:53:14.000 Yeah, you're trying material out, and also you don't want people distracted.

01:53:17.000 It's better for everybody.

01:53:19.000 It's better for the audience.

01:53:20.000 It's better for you.

01:53:21.000 And also, you're saying a lot of stuff that's not done.

01:53:25.000 And if somebody releases it because they want clicks and then they put it on you to fuck the whole bit up because it's not done.

01:53:31.000 And a lot of bits, they suck at first.

01:53:33.000 Like you don't know where they're going.

01:53:35.000 Like you have an idea.

01:53:36.000 And the only way comedy really gets made is in front of a crowd.

01:53:40.000 I have a lot of ideas that I think are really good until the audience tells me different.

01:53:44.000 You don't know.

01:53:45.000 Really, you have no idea until you say it in front of people.

01:53:48.000 That's interesting, yeah.

01:53:49.000 And it's very much the same for, you know, in music.

01:53:52.000 I feel like there's stuff that I try out live.

01:53:56.000 You know, there's a song, I do a lot of new material live just to see how the audience will react.

01:54:01.000 Does it feel weird the first time you sing it?

01:54:03.000 Yeah.

01:54:04.000 It depends on what type of song it is, too.

01:54:06.000 If it's a song that requires focus on the lyrics, you know, then sometimes it feels weird because a lot of people, when they listen to music, they don't hear a lot of lyrics.

01:54:18.000 It takes a certain type of listener to listen to lyrics and be able to internalize them.

01:54:23.000 A lot of people take the song as a whole and the melody and they hear it and they're like, oh, this song makes me feel good.

01:54:29.000 And then later on, if they like the song, they'll go in and listen to the lyrics.

01:54:32.000 I've found a lot of people listen to music that way.

01:54:34.000 And then it takes them a while to actually hear what, you know, unless it's a stripped down me and a guitar with no band around.

01:54:45.000 And then it forces the listener to then listen to the words, you know, which I actually, I really like doing that.

01:54:52.000 Sometimes I like just playing just me because then there's no distraction around and it's sort of just me, a guitar, and the words that I'm saying.

01:55:01.000 And I think they have more impact sometimes that way.

01:55:03.000 Yeah, people love that too.

01:55:04.000 That's why they love acoustic performances, right?

01:55:06.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:55:07.000 Like Bob Dylan was an amazing, Paul Simon, again, these are people that I cite a lot, you know, in this way.

01:55:16.000 But, you know, Sierra Farrell, do you know Sierra Farrell?

01:55:19.000 Oh, my God.

01:55:20.000 She's on my new record.

01:55:21.000 Stephen Wilson Jr., he's another great, amazing country singer-songwriter.

01:55:26.000 Sierra Farrell has one of the greatest voices I've ever heard.

01:55:28.000 Really?

01:55:29.000 Yeah.

01:55:29.000 Oh, my God.

01:55:30.000 You love her music.

01:55:33.000 And Stephen Wilson Jr., not only is he a great writer, he used to be a food scientist.

01:55:38.000 So he was a food scientist and he wrote songs kind of as a hobby on the side, but he was responsible for what percentage of what sort of goes into making dog food and things like that.

01:55:56.000 It was really interesting.

01:55:58.000 And now he's really hitting it off.

01:56:00.000 He's a great artist.

01:56:02.000 That's interesting.

01:56:04.000 Like a food scientist, too.

01:56:05.000 Well, yeah, I guess there's probably art to that too, right?

01:56:08.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:56:09.000 Yeah.

01:56:10.000 Create something delicious.

01:56:11.000 Well, you could be an evil food scientist, creating junk food that's like super addictive.

01:56:16.000 I think there's a lot of those out there, man.

01:56:17.000 Oh, hell yeah.

01:56:18.000 But I don't, you know, do they think they're evil?

01:56:20.000 They're probably just, you know, getting the job done.

01:56:23.000 They're just doing their job.

01:56:24.000 What's their job?

01:56:25.000 You know, I mean, a lot of these food companies, unfortunately, are now owned by the same people that used to own tobacco companies.

01:56:31.000 Right.

01:56:32.000 Or still own tobacco companies.

01:56:33.000 Yeah, that's interesting.

01:56:34.000 Yeah.

01:56:35.000 And then they develop super addictive junk food.

01:56:38.000 Family farms, man.

01:56:40.000 Family farms, regenerative farms.

01:56:42.000 Support your local family farmer.

01:56:44.000 Yeah, you don't have to eat junk food.

01:56:45.000 No, you don't.

01:56:46.000 But also, you can.

01:56:49.000 Yeah.

01:56:49.000 Just don't eat it all the time.

01:56:51.000 Twinkies are great.

01:56:53.000 They make you feel like shit, but while you're eating them, they're delicious.

01:56:53.000 Yeah.

01:56:56.000 Yeah.

01:56:57.000 I like, I think as far as junk food goes, I'm just a good old Snickers bar.

01:57:02.000 Oh, yeah.

01:57:02.000 Snickers bar are great.

01:57:04.000 I don't even know if Snickers bar is like really junk food because there's a place for Snickers bars.

01:57:09.000 Like if you're in the backcountry, say if you're hiking.

01:57:13.000 Snickers bars is.

01:57:13.000 Yeah.

01:57:14.000 Oh, it has nuts, some protein.

01:57:16.000 There's plenty of sugar in it, too, which you're going to need if you're burning off a shit ton of calories.

01:57:21.000 You're operating at a calorie deficit, and sometimes that's like exactly what you need.

01:57:26.000 You need like a little bit of protein, a lot of sugar, and it helps fuel your muscles.

01:57:32.000 And it gives you just simple, simple, simple calories.

01:57:36.000 I think I just heard you were talking about this.

01:57:39.000 Was it George Foreman?

01:57:40.000 He used to drink a Coke after each other.

01:57:42.000 No, Floy May with it.

01:57:43.000 Floy May.

01:57:44.000 Yeah, he drank Coca-Cola after he worked out.

01:57:47.000 There's something to that.

01:57:48.000 There's something to that as hard as he worked out.

01:57:50.000 Just like immediate sugar after exercise to replenish the body.

01:57:55.000 Yeah, my friend Corey Sanhagen was talking about that.

01:57:58.000 He does that.

01:58:01.000 He's a big fan of like, because he's an MMA fighter, and so he'll do two and sometimes three workouts in a day.

01:58:08.000 And if you're going to do that, you have to do something after a hard workout to replenish the muscles in order to be able to work out.

01:58:15.000 And the carbs then replenish the muscles.

01:58:17.000 Yeah, you need those sugars.

01:58:19.000 Yeah, you need fruit.

01:58:20.000 You need fructose.

01:58:21.000 But wouldn't you want it to be like a more pure form of sugar?

01:58:29.000 Aren't there different types of refined sugar is not? 0.57

01:58:32.000 Yeah, perhaps.

01:58:33.000 But also high sugar stuff gets in the muscles quicker.

01:58:38.000 That's the argument for doing it right after a workout.

01:58:41.000 Okay, yeah.

01:58:41.000 And what is right after?

01:58:43.000 Is it like within 15 minutes?

01:58:44.000 I think it's within 30.

01:58:46.000 I think that's the argument.

01:58:47.000 I mean, you have to look at, I mean, there's a lot of exercise scientists that I'm sure would have arguments one way or the other, which is interesting.

01:58:54.000 So they can't all agree.

01:58:56.000 Right.

01:58:56.000 You know, there's a lot of arguments.

01:58:58.000 Yeah.

01:58:59.000 And it also depends on what kind of exercise you're doing.

01:59:02.000 You know, are you a weightlifter or are you a marathon runner?

01:59:05.000 You know, because we had Courtney Dowalter on the podcast once, and she does ultra marathons. 0.98

01:59:10.000 And, you know, my friend Cam Haynes, who also does ultra marathons, says she's one of the toughest human beings he's ever met in his fucking life and she exists on sugar. 0.98

01:59:20.000 She eats like candy and drinks beer. 1.00

01:59:24.000 Like it's not, she's not like formed in a lab.

01:59:29.000 Like whatever willpower that she has that allows her to, you know, she's beaten people where she does like these 250 mile runs where the second place person is like eight hours behind her. 0.99

01:59:40.000 Wow.

01:59:41.000 Which is just bananas.

01:59:42.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:59:43.000 The idea of like you could run 250 miles and then second place, it takes them eight hours longer than you to run those 250 miles.

01:59:54.000 Wow.

01:59:55.000 That's got to be genetic slightly too.

01:59:57.000 Well, it's got to be like the VO2 max is pretty high.

02:00:00.000 I don't know.

02:00:01.000 It's body type for sure.

02:00:01.000 Genetic.

02:00:03.000 You're not going to get like a 6'5, 300-pound man that can do that.

02:00:07.000 Sure.

02:00:07.000 Because your form physically can't really perform.

02:00:12.000 There's so much of a physical energy requirement to move that much mass in defiance of gravity over long periods of time.

02:00:20.000 Most of those people that are ultra-marathon runners are very slight, small people.

02:00:24.000 Like Cam, when he gets ready to do ultramarathons, he loses quite a bit of weight.

02:00:31.000 At one point in time, he was in the high 180s, and now he's down to like 160, and he'll get even lower than that.

02:00:38.000 How tall is he in this race?

02:00:38.000 He's my height, so he's like 5'8.

02:00:40.000 Okay.

02:00:41.000 5'7.

02:00:42.000 So he'll get down to like 150-something when he's gonna do like a 250-mile race.

02:00:50.000 But it's like a, that kind of mindset is a crazy mindset.

02:00:55.000 That's like a very unusual punishment that you're gonna put yourself through voluntarily.

02:01:00.000 When Chris died, Chris Christofferson died, it hit me real hard and I went and ran.

02:01:06.000 I just kept running like Forrest Gump and I ran just 13.1 miles.

02:01:12.000 I stopped when I got half a mile, half a marathon.

02:01:16.000 And I was worked.

02:01:18.000 I was like, oh man, another 13.1 miles for a marathon?

02:01:21.000 That's a lot.

02:01:22.000 Well, you build up to it, right?

02:01:24.000 That's the whole thing.

02:01:25.000 It's like, you know, like if someone wants to work out tomorrow and they never worked out, like I've done this with a lot of my comedian friends.

02:01:32.000 I take them to the gym.

02:01:33.000 I go, look, we're not going to break you.

02:01:35.000 If you're going to work out with me, it's going to be very easy.

02:01:38.000 And you're going to maybe want to do more, but I'm not going to let you.

02:01:40.000 I'm going to make you do a certain amount of push-ups, a certain amount of body weight squats. 0.99

02:01:44.000 We're going to do a few of these and a few of those, and then we're done.

02:01:47.000 We're done.

02:01:47.000 And I don't want you to be tired.

02:01:49.000 I want you to be just a little energized.

02:01:51.000 And then two days later, we'll do it again.

02:01:53.000 And then we'll do it again.

02:01:56.000 And then after a while, your body gets stronger.

02:01:58.000 Like, now I'm going to require more of you.

02:01:59.000 Now we're going to actually exert.

02:02:01.000 And now, okay, now you've got some muscle mass.

02:02:03.000 Now you've got some endurance.

02:02:04.000 And now we're going to build on top of that.

02:02:05.000 The way I describe it, I'm like you're building a mountain one layer of paint at a time.

02:02:10.000 That's a good way to describe it.

02:02:10.000 Wow.

02:02:12.000 Do you do the scans, the body scans?

02:02:16.000 Or DEXA scans?

02:02:17.000 The DEXA scans.

02:02:18.000 I have in the past.

02:02:19.000 I haven't done one in a long time.

02:02:20.000 I just found this guy, Colin Anders, and 287 pounds did a 100-mile.

02:02:27.000 Whoa.

02:02:29.000 He's set up to do, like, to break the world record.

02:02:31.000 I like it says ultra-large.

02:02:33.000 That's the name of the little documentary they made.

02:02:35.000 So he's 280 pounds, and he ran an ultra-marathon.

02:02:40.000 Wow.

02:02:41.000 That must have been hell.

02:02:43.000 That was incredible.

02:02:44.000 That's the weight he lost at the end of the video there, too.

02:02:46.000 I bet he lost 50 pounds.

02:02:46.000 Oh, my God.

02:02:47.000 It just checks right here.

02:02:49.000 How much weight did he lose?

02:02:50.000 I'm about to find out.

02:02:51.000 Skip ahead.

02:02:52.000 Spoiler alert.

02:02:53.000 Get to the end.

02:02:59.000 Wait, he gained weight.

02:03:00.000 No.

02:03:01.000 It's 297, it says.

02:03:03.000 Well, what did he weigh before?

02:03:04.000 That's 287, is what I was seeing.

02:03:06.000 How's that possible?

02:03:06.000 What?

02:03:07.000 10-pound weight gain after 100 pounds?

02:03:11.000 Or 100 miles round?

02:03:12.000 What the fuck did you eat, bro?

02:03:14.000 Wow.

02:03:15.000 That's crazy.

02:03:17.000 He must have been eating the whole time, like right every 30 miles.

02:03:21.000 He's a packing every five minutes.

02:03:23.000 That's incredible, though.

02:03:24.000 I guess.

02:03:25.000 I don't know.

02:03:25.000 I guess.

02:03:26.000 Oh, yeah.

02:03:26.000 Your body probably is doing everything it can to keep the water.

02:03:29.000 I mean, I can only guess.

02:03:30.000 Yeah.

02:03:31.000 That's pretty wild.

02:03:32.000 That is interesting.

02:03:33.000 To be that big.

02:03:33.000 That's something I didn't expect to see.

02:03:35.000 Yeah, to be that big and run 100 miles is very, very unusual.

02:03:38.000 Most of those guys are super slight, and they just keep on trucking.

02:03:42.000 Yeah.

02:03:42.000 Did you read that book a long time ago?

02:03:45.000 It came out.

02:03:46.000 I think it was called Born to Run, but it was like about the Tara Humara tribe.

02:03:50.000 They run barefoot.

02:03:52.000 And I don't remember what it was actually called, but it was really interesting.

02:03:58.000 Yeah, they run through the mountains.

02:04:00.000 It's like a South American tribe, right?

02:04:01.000 Yeah, South American or even Mexican.

02:04:04.000 Is it Mexican? 0.98

02:04:04.000 I can't remember. 0.98

02:04:05.000 I don't remember, but the Tara Humara is what they're called.

02:04:08.000 And they would run barefoot.

02:04:10.000 Wild.

02:04:11.000 What the fuck.

02:04:12.000 And apparently, you know, they would also run, which was interesting, they would run happily.

02:04:21.000 They would have smiles on their faces and they'd be light.

02:04:23.000 And they said that that helped them sort of lightly grace themselves through the mindset that they had when they ran helped them to outperform everyone else.

02:04:32.000 Well, they're probably doing it all the time.

02:04:35.000 In order to be able to run that much, again, you're building.

02:04:38.000 Slowly but surely building on top of what you had before.

02:04:44.000 It's like if someone wants to just get out today and run a marathon, don't fucking do it.

02:04:48.000 You're going to blow your ankles apart.

02:04:50.000 You're going to fuck your knees up.

02:04:51.000 You're going to ruin your hips. 0.99

02:04:52.000 Like, don't do that.

02:04:53.000 Don't do that.

02:04:54.000 Run around the block.

02:04:55.000 And then the next day, maybe run twice around the block.

02:04:58.000 But you have to get better the same way you got sick.

02:05:01.000 Like, you didn't get unhealthy in a day.

02:05:05.000 You got unhealthy over the course of a long stretch of life.

02:05:09.000 Do you like to run?

02:05:09.000 Do you run?

02:05:10.000 No.

02:05:10.000 You don't run?

02:05:11.000 No.

02:05:12.000 I've done it.

02:05:14.000 I have a knee issue.

02:05:16.000 So do you swim instead?

02:05:17.000 I swim.

02:05:18.000 I do.

02:05:19.000 But most of my cardiovascular exercise I do on an airdyne bike.

02:05:24.000 Oh, it's a bike.

02:05:25.000 Or I hit the bag.

02:05:26.000 But does the bike hurt your knee too?

02:05:28.000 No, it doesn't.

02:05:28.000 No.

02:05:29.000 No, because you're not pounding.

02:05:30.000 Right, there's no.

02:05:31.000 I've had knee surgeries from years of martial arts.

02:05:34.000 I have like one knee that has meniscus missing.

02:05:37.000 I can run, I do, but I just don't think it's the best thing for someone who's got like, He's basically bone on bone, just running around.

02:05:51.000 But he gets a bunch of operations.

02:05:52.000 He's done like seven or eight operations to try to correct his knees that are fucked up from doing this.

02:05:58.000 They put plates in there and shit, and he wears them out.

02:06:00.000 Like, it's nuts.

02:06:01.000 I, you know, I respect the guy, but that's a lot.

02:06:06.000 Oh, yeah.

02:06:06.000 I mean, he's ruining his body.

02:06:08.000 And he's hoping that science will get to a point where they could repair all that shit without him having to reuse it.

02:06:14.000 He's like placing it on that.

02:06:16.000 Well, it's like you can get a knee replacement now, right?

02:06:19.000 And you'll be in significantly less pain.

02:06:21.000 But once science comes around, well, they're getting closer and closer every day to be able to completely regenerate cartilage, meniscus, and all that tissue that you have inside your knee that keeps it healthy.

02:06:34.000 If you decide that you want to get a knee replacement, that kind of stops all that because now you have an artificial knee and you can't regrow a knee once you've cut your knee out.

02:06:44.000 No, you can't.

02:06:45.000 And so this is why he's not doing that yet, I think.

02:06:48.000 He's talked about it.

02:06:49.000 He's like, maybe someday I'll have to, but right now it's just, he'll just deal with it.

02:06:53.000 Wow.

02:06:54.000 You look like you have to pee.

02:06:55.000 No?

02:06:55.000 Do you?

02:06:56.000 Okay, I thought you did.

02:06:56.000 You're weaseling around a little bit.

02:06:58.000 Because I usually get sensitive to guests, like if they start to move around a little, I was like, oh, you got to pee?

02:07:02.000 Well, now let me take an assessment.

02:07:04.000 Because we're like two hours in.

02:07:06.000 We are two hours in.

02:07:07.000 At least.

02:07:07.000 Yeah.

02:07:08.000 I feel good, though.

02:07:09.000 Okay.

02:07:09.000 I don't have to pee.

02:07:10.000 I just sort of like, yeah, I guess I've just been sitting a while.

02:07:13.000 It's kind of like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit.

02:07:14.000 Yeah, no, I do that too.

02:07:15.000 I do that too.

02:07:16.000 Yeah, but for people out there that are thinking about like, oh, this is inspiring me, start slow.

02:07:22.000 But do it again.

02:07:23.000 Make sure you don't just get inspired one day.

02:07:26.000 Inspiration is great.

02:07:27.000 Discipline is better.

02:07:29.000 You know what I did, which I loved, is that really helped me was wherever I would walk, just in general, I would just do a little like jog instead of walking somewhere.

02:07:44.000 I'd just go like, you know.

02:07:45.000 Just a little something.

02:07:46.000 Just like this.

02:07:47.000 Just kind of like, almost like this, and I'd walk wherever I was going.

02:07:47.000 Yeah.

02:07:52.000 And I started to do that every day.

02:07:55.000 Just like, oh, you know, instead of walking to get my coffee in the morning, I'd kind of do a little jog.

02:08:01.000 And throughout the day, I'd do that.

02:08:02.000 And eventually I started wanting to go out for a run.

02:08:06.000 Like, my body just started warming up.

02:08:09.000 And I kind of wanted to do that.

02:08:10.000 Same concept.

02:08:10.000 Yeah.

02:08:11.000 Yeah, same concept.

02:08:12.000 Build it up slowly.

02:08:13.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:08:13.000 Just do something, people.

02:08:15.000 I'm telling you.

02:08:15.000 Just go fucking do something.

02:08:17.000 Find a yoga class.

02:08:18.000 Do something.

02:08:19.000 Treat your body like a temple.

02:08:21.000 Well, just for your brain.

02:08:23.000 You know, you got to understand that there's a connection.

02:08:25.000 If your body is sedentary, it's just sludge.

02:08:27.000 It's all just.

02:08:28.000 It's all blocked up.

02:08:31.000 That fucks with your mind.

02:08:31.000 That's true.

02:08:33.000 The mentally unhealthiest people that I know are all terribly out of shape.

02:08:38.000 Yep.

02:08:39.000 And I mean, you know, there is a correlation for sure.

02:08:42.000 100%.

02:08:43.000 You know, this is this life.

02:08:45.000 This life is, you've been given this meat vehicle, and you've got to maintain it. 0.81

02:08:51.000 It's a good band name.

02:08:52.000 Meat vehicle?

02:08:53.000 Probably already exists.

02:08:54.000 It probably has some banging songs. 1.00

02:08:56.000 It's probably a hardcore band.

02:08:58.000 Definitely a hardcore band.

02:08:59.000 Meat vehicle.

02:09:02.000 Wait, there are some other ones.

02:09:03.000 Oh, biblically accurate angel.

02:09:06.000 Ooh.

02:09:07.000 Biblically accurate angel.

02:09:09.000 Have you seen what a biblically accurate angel looks like?

02:09:11.000 Yeah, they look like aliens.

02:09:12.000 That was pretty cool.

02:09:13.000 Yeah, they look like geometric patterns.

02:09:15.000 Yeah.

02:09:15.000 I always wonder what the alien...

02:09:28.000 He thinks that they're not visiting from somewhere else, that they've always been here, and that there's some sort of spiritual aspect to like the UFO encounter, UAP phenomenon.

02:09:41.000 Oh, I see.

02:09:42.000 Yes.

02:09:43.000 Well, there's a lot of interesting pictures that are, you know, drawn on cave walls and things like that.

02:09:52.000 Oh, we've gone over a shit ton of them.

02:09:54.000 And then also ancient religious art where it looks like people are in vehicles flying through the sky.

02:09:59.000 I'm sure you've seen those too, right?

02:10:01.000 Yeah, like, what is that?

02:10:02.000 Like, what are you trying to?

02:10:03.000 There's no other stuff that you're in that thing that's fantastical.

02:10:07.000 Everything else is like an accurate representation of life at that time, except for these people that are in these flying things in the sky.

02:10:14.000 Like, what is that?

02:10:15.000 Yeah.

02:10:16.000 We just don't know.

02:10:18.000 Unfortunately.

02:10:19.000 When I looked at all of the credible UFO reports, the only ones that really had no explanation.

02:10:27.000 I actually asked ChatGPT, of all of the credible UFO, of all of the UFO reports, which ones have not in some way been sort of explained?

02:10:40.000 Right, and which ones are the ones that are still like, Commander David Fraver.

02:10:50.000 Right.

02:10:50.000 Yeah, I've had him on the podcast talk to him.

02:10:51.000 Have you really?

02:10:52.000 That seems to be the most compelling.

02:10:52.000 Yeah.

02:10:57.000 There's other ones, though.

02:10:58.000 Ryan Graves, he's another fighter pilot, and that was off the East Coast.

02:11:03.000 So the Nimitz is off the coast of San Diego.

02:11:05.000 But off the East Coast, they upgraded their sensors in 2014 on the fighter jets and then immediately started encountering these things that defied known physics that were in the sky.

02:11:17.000 And these guys had these encounters with these things that were like a cube inside of a sphere that's like motionless at 120 knot winds and no heat signature moving through the sky.

02:11:30.000 They don't know what the fuck they are.

02:11:32.000 What do you say to the theory of the possibility that that is sort of black ops?

02:11:39.000 Like the idea that the SR-71, I think, the Blackbird, there's a company called Skunkworks, right?

02:11:51.000 And they were responsible for the declassification of that aircraft.

02:11:56.000 And then I think the F-111 or the stealth bombers.

02:12:02.000 But since then, and that was like 25 years ago or more, there have not been any more declassifications.

02:12:08.000 Yeah, that's a good argument.

02:12:09.000 I just am curious as to what in 25 years, based on the technology that we've been able to see that makes it to the modern society, how much is held back and what we don't see.

02:12:29.000 It just interests me.

02:12:30.000 And I don't know.

02:12:31.000 I don't have an answer.

02:12:32.000 I'm not asking myself whether I actually believe that it's almost unlikely that we have that technology, because I feel like it would just take so much more than we may be capable of to cover it up.

02:12:47.000 But maybe not.

02:12:48.000 I don't know.

02:12:49.000 Yeah, I don't think it would.

02:12:50.000 I think there's a high likelihood that a lot of this stuff is ours.

02:12:54.000 And I think one of the reasons for that statement is that this stuff always happens over military airspace.

02:13:00.000 East Coast and West Coast.

02:13:01.000 So the East Coast stuff, the Ryan Graves stuff, they're doing it over areas where these fighter jet pilots run training missions.

02:13:08.000 And then the same thing as the West Coast stuff, where it's off the coast of San Diego, which is like tons of military out there.

02:13:15.000 I do believe that there's some programs that are operational.

02:13:18.000 And there's a great podcast, Jesse Michaels, has an amazing YouTube channel.

02:13:24.000 He's covered this stuff really extensively, and he's a brilliant guy.

02:13:27.000 He really understands it.

02:13:28.000 And they were working on some anti-gravity technology in the 1960s.

02:13:32.000 And most likely they continued that work.

02:13:34.000 Yeah, artificial horizon technology and stuff like that.

02:13:39.000 I mean, it's got to have come far since then.

02:13:41.000 Yeah, and the idea that they could hide all that stuff.

02:13:44.000 No, they could never hide it.

02:13:45.000 Of course they could.

02:13:46.000 Of course they could.

02:13:46.000 They definitely could.

02:13:47.000 You're being naive.

02:13:48.000 You're being naive as to how much the government is.

02:13:52.000 I'm only asking the question that I actually pretty much, that's what I lean towards when it comes to that.

02:14:00.000 think some of it, but some of it also could be from somewhere else.

02:14:04.000 And I think some of it just exhibits...

02:14:11.000 So this Tic Tac goes from more than 50,000 feet above sea level to sea level in less than a second.

02:14:17.000 Yeah.

02:14:18.000 Like seven-eighths of a second.

02:14:20.000 Like, that's crazy.

02:14:20.000 Sure.

02:14:21.000 That is.

02:14:22.000 And you're right.

02:14:23.000 What is that?

02:14:24.000 And it does, it does, it changes it when you remember how long ago these things were being seen.

02:14:32.000 Right.

02:14:33.000 Because this is 2004.

02:14:34.000 But then you go back to the 1960s, if they're really working on anti-gravity technology back then, it's possible that they could have created a drone.

02:14:42.000 Right.

02:14:43.000 The thing is, like, could a human being survive inside of those things at those extreme speeds?

02:14:48.000 Well, the question is, like, what are they experiencing in that?

02:14:52.000 Because if it's a gravity device, if it's moving, if it's manipulating gravity, so it might not have g-forces at all.

02:15:01.000 It might be operating in a completely different paradigm.

02:15:04.000 Yeah, well, there may be sort of just, you know, trillions of alternate sort of, you know, momentum shifts in the outside protective layer that balance out whatever's happening on the inside to the point where, you know, they're using just crazy technology.

02:15:23.000 That's also why the argument is that they're blurry.

02:15:26.000 Like, so a lot of the photographs of these things are blurry.

02:15:28.000 It might be because they're actually existing in some sort of a gravity void.

02:15:32.000 Yeah.

02:15:33.000 And what you're seeing is not exactly what's there.

02:15:36.000 You're seeing it through like a dirty windshield.

02:15:39.000 I've seen some stuff.

02:15:41.000 Have you?

02:15:41.000 Yeah.

02:15:42.000 What have you seen?

02:15:42.000 When I was in Maui, twice I've seen something that I could not explain.

02:15:49.000 The one time I looked up and about nine of us were hanging out and we all looked up at the same time to see an orange orb.

02:15:58.000 And it was probably, it looked like it was 100 yards away, maybe 200, just floating, kind of observing.

02:16:05.000 And then I swear it seemed like as soon as enough people saw it, it went whoosh, and then it went whoosh, and it moved like nothing else I thought possible at the time.

02:16:19.000 It went out of the atmosphere.

02:16:21.000 And it was crazy, faster than any drone.

02:16:24.000 And this was back in like 2004, 2003, five, maybe.

02:16:32.000 We were all young.

02:16:33.000 I was maybe a little teenager, so it was probably like 2006, but it was like, it was crazy.

02:16:40.000 I'm telling you.

02:16:43.000 well, a lot of them happen near the ocean, too, which is interesting.

02:16:47.000 And another one, I was out on Lanai, and we were hanging out with some friends, and we were laying down on the lawn, and when you're out in Lanai on the backside of Lanai, there's no light pollution at all.

02:16:57.000 And so you have just this big, giant fishbowl of stars, and it's the most incredible.

02:17:02.000 It's like you're sitting in a spaceship.

02:17:05.000 Exactly.

02:17:06.000 And you feel that you're on spaceship Earth at the time, you know, like you are on that rock hurtling through space at that point.

02:17:13.000 And I saw this, we all, it scared the girls.

02:17:16.000 We all saw this pulsing colored thing go from one side of the horizon to the other, but in a very, like, it was like pulsing different colors, and it was like really interesting.

02:17:29.000 And so, you know, who knows what that could have been, but it was quite interesting.

02:17:33.000 Well, the vast majority of the ocean floor is unexplored.

02:17:37.000 Right.

02:17:38.000 And so this is the theory is that if you were going to set up a base here to observe human beings, if you came from somewhere else, you would probably do it in the ocean, especially if you have the kind of technology that allowed them to travel here from other star systems would also allow them to not be intimidated whatsoever.

02:17:55.000 The pressures.

02:17:56.000 I mean, that's I guess the deep pressure is what would be the, you know, it's almost the opposite of being in space, you know, the vacuum.

02:18:05.000 And then you have the deep pressure of, you know, that like, you know, with the...

02:18:18.000 So, like, what is that?

02:18:19.000 Is it a hologram?

02:18:20.000 So is it not a physical object?

02:18:22.000 Or are they doing something that allows them to not interact with any physical thing on Earth?

02:18:28.000 Like, some sort of a void that they travel through.

02:18:32.000 So they can go through the trees.

02:18:34.000 This is like part of Jacques Valley's research, too, in one of his books that was really fascinating was this woman observed this like egg-shaped thing.

02:18:42.000 And when it took off, it went through the trees.

02:18:45.000 But it didn't hurt the trees.

02:18:48.000 But it was on the ground, like as a physical object.

02:18:51.000 And when it took off, it went through the trees.

02:18:53.000 Well, I wonder if then we're talking about bending space-time at that point.

02:18:59.000 Are you creating some sort of like warp warp drive?

02:19:07.000 That's the idea.

02:19:08.000 You know, where you're just like warping space and time around a centralized location.

02:19:14.000 You sort of have to be, you know, use sort of the, you know, these different sort of exotic forms of matter and having an understanding of exotic matter, which we're now just starting to understand that there are these exotic matter types that, you know, that work in these weird ways.

02:19:33.000 But as we, if you read about it now, the only information available is that we're only cracking the surface of the understanding of these types of matter and hundreds of thousands of years away from understanding that.

02:19:46.000 But I mean, you know, that's that old saying that any technology that's sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic.

02:19:53.000 Is that Carl Sagan said that?

02:19:55.000 I forget who said that.

02:19:56.000 Yeah.

02:19:56.000 But yeah, I mean, if you're looking at something from a thousand years from now, it would seem like magic.

02:20:03.000 I mean, if we continue, we don't blow ourselves up and science and AI continue to figure out more compelling uses of universal energy, like whatever background energy that we have.

02:20:19.000 Who knows?

02:20:20.000 Who knows what human beings will be capable of?

02:20:22.000 So you've got to imagine if something's visiting us from somewhere else, especially if they have artificial superintelligence.

02:20:31.000 If they've traversed this journey that we're on, if they've gotten to the point where whatever we're currently investigating, whatever they're working on right now in terms of super intelligent AI, what if they've gone through that and they're a thousand years more advanced?

02:20:48.000 All that stuff would be probably simple for them to be able to go through the water, to have these trans-medium crafts that are capable of flying in the air, through the water.

02:20:57.000 Right.

02:20:58.000 Well, the interesting question for ourselves is how do we get to a place as a society to where we can trust in our science, we can trust to say that we trust it enough to fund it.

02:21:16.000 That's not trust in the science.

02:21:18.000 The problem is the human beings that are in possession of the science.

02:21:21.000 Well, but that's what I mean.

02:21:22.000 Like, how do we restore faith in that?

02:21:24.000 And because there are, you know, it's not all bullshit.

02:21:29.000 There is real, you know, like we wouldn't exist where we are without the science that has brought us to where we are.

02:21:36.000 Yeah, technology.

02:21:37.000 And technology.

02:21:38.000 And so understanding and trusting and figuring out how to restore faith in certain institutions that we have because we need them to survive and to keep going.

02:21:51.000 So it's like not tearing down the airplane while it's falling.

02:21:56.000 You have to repair the airplane from inside and then keep it flying if you can.

02:22:01.000 So is there a way to write the ship while we're in it?

02:22:05.000 I think the problem is a lot of this stuff is military funding.

02:22:10.000 So a lot of the applications for any sort of super advanced technology is going to be weapon systems.

02:22:16.000 And that's what everybody's terrified of.

02:22:18.000 What they're terrified of is that you're going to develop more efficient ways to kill people.

02:22:24.000 And that's really the only way these things get funded.

02:22:29.000 I'm just what I'm saying.

02:22:30.000 I'm like, how do we switch it so that we can have people in power that really are looking out for the future of humanity and then have people that actually want that?

02:22:43.000 Because some people are going to have to take sacrifices for that.

02:22:50.000 And I mean, people high up are going to have to say, well, I'm going to have to get paid a little less because this, you know.

02:22:56.000 It's a great struggle, Lucas.

02:22:58.000 Yeah, it's a great struggle.

02:22:59.000 Yeah, it really is.

02:23:00.000 It's a great struggle.

02:23:01.000 It's the great struggle of people in power don't necessarily deserve power.

02:23:07.000 And the kind of people that you want running the world aren't interested in the job.

02:23:11.000 No, mostly.

02:23:13.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:23:16.000 Well, yeah.

02:23:16.000 Well, hey, brother, I really enjoyed talking to you.

02:23:20.000 Thank you very much for being here.

02:23:21.000 I appreciate you having me, Joe.

02:23:22.000 And I encourage everybody to go see you live because you're fucking amazing.

02:23:25.000 It was really an incredible performance at the McConaughey thing.

02:23:29.000 And I wish you all the best, man.

02:23:31.000 I wish you'd been cool being your friend, too.

02:23:32.000 Yeah, I enjoyed talking to you.

02:23:33.000 I enjoyed talking to you, too.

02:23:35.000 That was fun.

02:23:35.000 Thank you.

02:23:36.000 Tell everybody where they can find you.

02:23:38.000 Where's the best place to find your music?

02:23:40.000 Yeah, well, on all the platforms, of course, we're there, and we got a tour posted.

02:23:47.000 We're going to come up there.

02:23:50.000 Live in concert.

02:23:51.000 Oh, you're going everywhere.

02:23:52.000 Yeah.

02:23:54.000 We're about to put out new dates, too, for the fall.

02:23:56.000 We're going to be all over the East Coast, the West Coast.

02:24:00.000 We're going to be everywhere.

02:24:01.000 Hell yeah.

02:24:02.000 Sorry, Kansas City.

02:24:03.000 That shit sold out.

02:24:04.000 Oh, yeah, that was a while.

02:24:04.000 That's sold out.

02:24:07.000 The ones coming up, Charlottesville, Virginia, Allentown, Pennsylvania.

02:24:11.000 Oh, yeah, those are May.

02:24:12.000 Yeah.

02:24:12.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:24:13.000 So there's plenty of stuff coming up for people to want to do.

02:24:15.000 Montana is going to be great.

02:24:17.000 Big Sky.

02:24:18.000 Big Sky.

02:24:19.000 Park City, Utah.

02:24:20.000 Yeah, there you go.

02:24:20.000 Wyoming.

02:24:21.000 All right.

02:24:22.000 Yeah, man.

02:24:22.000 Thank you.

02:24:23.000 It was fun.

02:24:23.000 Thank you.

02:24:24.000 I enjoyed it.

02:24:24.000 All right.

The Joe Rogan Experience - July 10, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2348 - Lukas Nelson

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Transcript