The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2350 - Ryan Callaghan

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00:00:13.000 Ryan Callahan, ladies and gentlemen.

00:00:15.000 We brought you in here, hopefully we were going to kill that public land sale deal from the big, beautiful Bill. 1.00

00:00:23.000 We did it.

00:00:24.000 Before we even got you in here.

00:00:26.000 Well, I mean, we're not out of the woods yet.

00:00:28.000 is the reality.

00:00:29.000 Yeah.

00:00:29.000 I mean, we're, I, That would have been ideal.

00:00:42.000 I think it's dead.

00:00:44.000 It is dead.

00:00:45.000 It is dead, but we're a long way from this stuff being dead ever.

00:00:49.000 Dead ever.

00:00:50.000 Right, exactly.

00:00:51.000 It's got to be dead forever.

00:00:53.000 It's not theirs to sell.

00:00:55.000 It's very unique to the United States.

00:00:57.000 It's an amazing thing that we have.

00:00:59.000 And I don't think people in other countries understand this.

00:01:02.000 I don't think people in America even understand how unique it is.

00:01:05.000 Like our public lands, what they did when they set that up, not just national parks, but all the public lands, we created this insane resource, this beautiful resource where we can go into the mountains, into the woods, and enjoy nature.

00:01:20.000 And it's ours.

00:01:22.000 It's all of ours.

00:01:23.000 And I get, I mean, the amount of response from listeners that live outside the country and to a person, they're like, are you guys really going to screw this up?

00:01:34.000 They're like, how do people not know?

00:01:36.000 How do people not appreciate what you guys have?

00:01:39.000 Don't turn into this country or this country or this country. 1.00

00:01:43.000 Basically, any other country outside of Canada and the U.S. I think the real issue is the people in America that don't experience it and don't go there and don't know how insanely unique this situation is.

00:01:59.000 Like, I don't know how to say Chamas' last name, Polyhoptia. 0.57

00:02:02.000 Is that how you say it?

00:02:03.000 Even he was tweeting that this is a great deal.

00:02:06.000 Sell the land and, you know, we'll make some money.

00:02:08.000 Like, what the fuck are you talking about, man?

00:02:10.000 Like, you don't, you don't understand.

00:02:12.000 Like, this was an incredible gift that they gave us when they set America up this way.

00:02:19.000 Oh, yeah.

00:02:20.000 And it's not that they need to go out and experience.

00:02:27.000 They can also understand just where food comes from, right?

00:02:32.000 How we get cold water and fresh water in our taps.

00:02:38.000 That public resource is working on our behalf 24-7, 365, always has been and always will be as long as we don't screw it up.

00:02:48.000 Right.

00:02:49.000 So it's not just the recreational part of it.

00:02:52.000 It is, I mean, it is no different than, if you want to think of it in these terms, than some, you know, one-arm jacked pumping oil out of the ground.

00:03:00.000 Like it is constantly working on our behalf.

00:03:04.000 And it, being public land, needs to be intact, an intact ecosystem to do its job.

00:03:12.000 And there's less and less of it every year.

00:03:16.000 So like, for instance, right, like America's grasslands, we are losing 2 million acres.

00:03:25.000 And grasslands are kind of like a catch-all phrase a little bit, but it'd be like sagebrush ecosystem, short grass prairie, mixed grass prairie.

00:03:32.000 But we're losing 2 million acres a year.

00:03:35.000 It's the most threatened ecosystem, not just in the U.S., but in the entire planet.

00:03:42.000 And people are like, oh, it's just grass, not development.

00:03:45.000 How are we losing that?

00:03:47.000 Development.

00:03:48.000 Really?

00:03:48.000 Well, there's development, but also encroachment of tree species.

00:03:55.000 So cedars, junipers, stuff like that, working their way back out on to the prairie, to the plain.

00:04:02.000 And we used to have all these natural deforesters out there, bison, that wouldn't allow those trees to grow because they like rubbing up on stuff and they'll destroy them. 1.00

00:04:14.000 So, you know, millions of bison out there physically removing or preventing that tree encroachment onto the plain.

00:04:24.000 Those trees are sucking water out of the ground, making it more arid and more dry.

00:04:29.000 Water table goes down.

00:04:32.000 You lose a lot of species diversification.

00:04:36.000 And people just do not know, Joe.

00:04:40.000 They just don't know.

00:04:42.000 And they look at it and they're like, it's just grass.

00:04:44.000 Yeah, I never knew that it was 2 million acres a year.

00:04:46.000 How many acres in the United States?

00:04:49.000 About 2.23 billion acres in the U.S. So that's a lot.

00:04:56.000 Like 2 million acres a year is a lot.

00:04:59.000 2 million acres a year is a lot.

00:05:01.000 And like I was hacking on Jamie for his golf swing, right?

00:05:05.000 He's got a solid golf swing.

00:05:07.000 You better leave him alone.

00:05:08.000 That's about all I got is the golf swing.

00:05:09.000 Leave him alone.

00:05:11.000 He can swing.

00:05:12.000 Jamie, what's the longest drive you've ever hit?

00:05:14.000 I've hit it over, I mean, 310, whatever, 305.

00:05:17.000 It's fucked.

00:05:17.000 That's legit.

00:05:18.000 I've done that.

00:05:19.000 That's legit, right?

00:05:20.000 I don't play golf, but I think that's pretty legit.

00:05:22.000 What's nodding my head because I'm like, yeah, I have no idea.

00:05:26.000 300 is set someone up to hit over 600 yards before, but it's like with the wind and the elevation.

00:05:33.000 Elevation helps a lot.

00:05:34.000 Right.

00:05:34.000 Like Montana or something.

00:05:36.000 I could hit it 400 yards in Montana.

00:05:38.000 Really?

00:05:38.000 I have on the simulator.

00:05:39.000 Ooh.

00:05:40.000 Oh, that's interesting.

00:05:42.000 Oh, the simulator accounts for that?

00:05:44.000 Yeah, but you don't have to dodge bears on the simulator.

00:05:47.000 Two million acres of golf courses in the U.S. Is there?

00:05:50.000 Two million acres of golf course.

00:05:51.000 Okay, so that's a good way to look at it.

00:05:54.000 All the golf courses in the United States get lost every year in grassland.

00:05:58.000 Wow.

00:05:58.000 Exactly.

00:05:59.000 Yeah.

00:06:00.000 Wow, that's a good way to put it, right?

00:06:01.000 Yeah.

00:06:02.000 And so we talk as far as like the public estate, right?

00:06:02.000 Yeah.

00:06:06.000 We have 640 million acres is the number that you hear all the time.

00:06:10.000 83 million of those are national parks.

00:06:14.000 But thanks to the great state of Alaska, you can hunt inside the boundary of some national parks up there to the tune of about like 43 million acres, big, big chunks, right?

00:06:26.000 And then you, you know, remove a little for structures, Roads, you know, we have over 400,000 miles of road on Forest Service and BLM ground.

00:06:38.000 Wow.

00:06:40.000 I mean, it's a lot, a lot, right?

00:06:43.000 And then when we get into like talking about like the budgeting of things, like BLM, Forest Service, they're maintaining a lot of stuff that people take for granted.

00:06:54.000 And then, you know, so we're down to like 580 million acres of what I would consider like usable.

00:07:03.000 And then you consider what those acres can actually produce, right?

00:07:07.000 Which, you know, if you go to a super arid state, you need a lot more land to support like mammal ungulate type life than you do in a state that's got a lot more water.

00:07:22.000 Yeah.

00:07:23.000 That's growing a lot of food in a smaller amount of space, right?

00:07:27.000 So to make things palatable for people, we're always doing the work of like dumbing things down, dumbing down the messaging.

00:07:38.000 And yeah, you're right.

00:07:39.000 Like people don't know.

00:07:41.000 They don't know because we try to distill things into like all public land.

00:07:46.000 Yeah.

00:07:47.000 Right.

00:07:47.000 But it is so diverse, which is what makes it amazing.

00:07:51.000 And that diversity provides all this opportunity.

00:07:55.000 And one of the things that people need to keep in mind is we have nothing but bad examples.

00:08:02.000 All these other countries have gone the complete opposite way of what we have now.

00:08:08.000 And one of America's largest exports is hunters.

00:08:13.000 Like we send hunters all over the world to support these other economies.

00:08:18.000 And what we have here at home is insanely valuable.

00:08:23.000 And it just becomes more and more valuable because we have large, intact ecosystems that you just more and more cannot find anywhere else, right?

00:08:35.000 Yeah.

00:08:36.000 And I just, I wish more people appreciated it.

00:08:39.000 I wish more people experienced it.

00:08:41.000 There's just too many people that just are landlocked.

00:08:44.000 And what I mean by landlocked, I mean in cities.

00:08:47.000 Urban locked is probably the best term for it.

00:08:49.000 There's just too many people that just don't go out.

00:08:52.000 They don't know how amazing it is.

00:08:53.000 It's like, I always say that it's like a vitamin that you didn't know you needed.

00:08:59.000 You know?

00:09:00.000 You get out into the real wild, the real woods, it's some kind of a nutrient that you didn't know you needed.

00:09:08.000 Oh, man, I was just up on, went up to the Arctic, went up to Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to check that place out.

00:09:17.000 And 24 hours of sun, right?

00:09:21.000 Land of the midnight sun.

00:09:23.000 Never gets dark.

00:09:24.000 And I was the only person on that trip who didn't bring like some sort of an eye cover to sleep with.

00:09:30.000 And I just can't tell you like how hard and good I slept up there.

00:09:37.000 Even without it.

00:09:37.000 Really?

00:09:38.000 I'm sleeping all over myself.

00:09:40.000 And it's just clean air and lots of space, man.

00:09:45.000 It was magical.

00:09:46.000 Magical.

00:09:47.000 How do you sleep with no eye cover?

00:09:49.000 I swear to God, Joe, man, when it was time to go to bed and it started out like bed was at 10.30 and then bed was at 2.30 in the morning and then bed was at 3 a.m because you would get as that sun's kind of like making this low orbit um i'm sure you've seen like the time lapses of the sun like kind of does a little dip yeah you get this like hazy gorgeous light that you just wanted to stay up and and see um but

00:10:19.000 I'd close my eyes and I could see like the sun going down to darkness and in my brain because it was just time to go to bed.

00:10:26.000 It was really bizarre.

00:10:27.000 And then if I had to wake up for something, it was bright light and I couldn't figure out why.

00:10:32.000 Yeah.

00:10:33.000 But I mean, it was so cathartic, man.

00:10:36.000 Like we've been running so hard.

00:10:37.000 And because of this public lands battle that we've been in, I think most people are like, oh, yeah, it just popped up last week.

00:10:48.000 And then we crushed it and big win.

00:10:50.000 And a little larger group of people or a smaller group of people is like, oh, it started in the House about six weeks ago.

00:10:59.000 And then there's a real small group of people who are like, August 24th, the state of Utah submitted a lawsuit for the United States Supreme Court to take 18 and a half million acres of acres of BLM land in Utah.

00:11:20.000 August 2024 is when we were like, oh my God, we got to be on top of this.

00:11:28.000 This is what's coming.

00:11:31.000 Trump's going to win the election.

00:11:33.000 It's going to set all these things up and we're going to be in this fight.

00:11:38.000 And people were like, I don't even know why you're talking about this.

00:11:42.000 This isn't a big deal.

00:11:43.000 I'm like, oh, it is a big deal.

00:11:45.000 This is happening.

00:11:46.000 Well, it's such a slippery slope, too.

00:11:48.000 This is what people don't know or don't appreciate.

00:11:50.000 If you say, oh, it's only like 1 million acres, we'll sell off 1 million acres.

00:11:54.000 It'll help fix the debt.

00:11:56.000 No, it's not.

00:11:57.000 The debt's $37 trillion.

00:12:00.000 You're not going to fix the debt by selling off public land.

00:12:02.000 And if you open up that slippery slope to these fucking vampire developers, they're going to keep doing it. 0.93

00:12:08.000 They're going to keep sucking on that blood until there's nothing left, until it's just the national parks.

00:12:14.000 Oh, we preserved Yellowstone.

00:12:15.000 Oh, great.

00:12:16.000 And that quite literally it.

00:12:19.000 You know, like Mike Lee is like the figurehead of this right now.

00:12:24.000 He's on the record saying we're going to sell everything.

00:12:28.000 We need to sell everything.

00:12:30.000 That's the plan.

00:12:31.000 We're going to retain the national parks and maybe a couple other things.

00:12:40.000 And he's been on the record for damn near 20 years saying this stuff.

00:12:44.000 Who's paying him?

00:12:47.000 There's a lot there, right?

00:12:49.000 Like where he grew up in Utah, there's a lot of like Chaffetz is from, right?

00:12:55.000 And he was the guy we were fighting a few years ago.

00:12:55.000 Yeah.

00:12:58.000 Exactly.

00:12:59.000 Yeah.

00:13:00.000 I mean, that's exactly why I dug this shirt out, Joe.

00:13:02.000 Yeah, I got one of those somewhere.

00:13:04.000 I wore this shirt on your show the last time this shit was happening.

00:13:04.000 Yeah.

00:13:09.000 Oh, yeah.

00:13:09.000 Right?

00:13:10.000 It was happening back then.

00:13:10.000 That's right.

00:13:11.000 That was like, what, five years ago?

00:13:14.000 Oh, I mean, six years still in California.

00:13:16.000 I mean, it was.

00:13:17.000 Five years ago, I moved here.

00:13:18.000 So it had to be six or seven years ago.

00:13:21.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:13:22.000 And it's just, it's cyclical.

00:13:22.000 Right?

00:13:24.000 And I swear to God, people didn't pay attention to this Utah lawsuit.

00:13:24.000 Yeah.

00:13:30.000 We were, I went back to D.C. for, you know, Steve's on the board for Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, TRCP.

00:13:39.000 They have a policy meeting that I try to go to twice, two or three times a year.

00:13:45.000 And I was in there with all these people that are super smart and went to school for all this stuff.

00:13:53.000 And a couple of us were like, why is nobody talking about this?

00:13:57.000 Why is nobody concerned about this?

00:13:59.000 And then this idea of selling public lands got really conflated with like, oh my God, if you talk about anything that's going on with the federal government, you're anti-Trump.

00:14:11.000 And it was just this ultra-politicized hot potato.

00:14:15.000 And we're like, no, no, no.

00:14:16.000 Public lands, they're for everybody.

00:14:19.000 Like, this is a nonpartisan thing.

00:14:22.000 We've been talking about it since August.

00:14:24.000 Here's this lawsuit.

00:14:26.000 Like, they're selling land that belongs to everybody.

00:14:29.000 It doesn't matter what state you're in.

00:14:32.000 And then, like, the next domino fell, and a bunch of states and counties signed on an amicus brief for that Utah lawsuit, which is like a friend of the court filing, because they wanted to get in.

00:14:48.000 Like, stuff's going up for free or cheap fire sale.

00:14:54.000 They wanted to be in on it.

00:14:57.000 And then the next domino fell, which was, oh, Mike Lee's getting pulled into the White House and he's cutting deals.

00:15:06.000 And we know exactly what's on his mind.

00:15:10.000 And it was literally just like this opening in the world where nobody's talking about 18.5 million acres.

00:15:19.000 So what if we started talking about 200 million acres or 500 million acres?

00:15:27.000 And it just like totally kicked the door open to this whole enchilada fire sale.

00:15:33.000 And had the dude not been as greedy, people may not have gotten as fired up about it.

00:15:40.000 But, you know, kind of thank God he did.

00:15:42.000 So who's paying him?

00:15:44.000 Man, I think, and I'm not an expert on this, there's some like real ideology here, like Mormon church ideology.

00:15:56.000 You know, there's like a billion people in the Mormon church, so not everybody thinks like a billion?

00:16:01.000 I don't know what the number is.

00:16:03.000 There's a lot.

00:16:04.000 Wasn't it like the most fastest growing religion there for a while?

00:16:10.000 Is it because you get extra chicks? 0.96

00:16:12.000 What is the deal?

00:16:13.000 There's a lot of pretty people. 0.99

00:16:14.000 There's a lot of pretty people, man. 0.54

00:16:16.000 That's a hook for sure. 0.96

00:16:18.000 Well, I have a friend that lives in Salt Lake, and he said that they'll literally send hot girls to try to recruit people. 0.80

00:16:25.000 They knock on your door and they're hot.

00:16:25.000 Yeah.

00:16:28.000 I mean, I can't blame them for going with what works, right?

00:16:32.000 Also, in terms of like, it's a weird religion, right?

00:16:38.000 What's the number here?

00:16:39.000 17 million.

00:16:41.000 Global membership.

00:16:42.000 Global membership.

00:16:43.000 So global 17 million.

00:16:44.000 So you were off by a few hundred.

00:16:46.000 Yeah, a few hundred million, yeah.

00:16:48.000 Yeah.

00:16:49.000 In 2024, they reached a 27-year high.

00:16:52.000 Wow.

00:16:52.000 Significant surge in convert baptisms in 2024.

00:16:57.000 I wonder what those hot girls going door to door. 1.00

00:17:00.000 But there's the nicest people.

00:17:02.000 They are the fucking nicest.

00:17:04.000 Mormons are the nicest.

00:17:07.000 I had a few neighbors that were Mormons when I lived in California.

00:17:10.000 They're my favorite people.

00:17:11.000 Like out of all the people in a weirdo religion.

00:17:14.000 Absolutely.

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00:17:51.000 I got asked, I was fishing down in Louisiana.

00:17:56.000 It was a super grumpy old fishing guy.

00:17:59.000 And he's like, hey, Callahan, what do you think about Muslims?

00:18:04.000 And I kind of put the fly rod down for a second.

00:18:06.000 And I was like, where are we going?

00:18:08.000 Where are we going with this?

00:18:09.000 I was like, like, all of them?

00:18:11.000 Yeah.

00:18:12.000 I'm like, there's a lot of Muslims, bud.

00:18:14.000 Like, all of them.

00:18:17.000 I'm like, what do you think about Louisianans?

00:18:20.000 Like, all of them.

00:18:21.000 Right.

00:18:21.000 Right?

00:18:22.000 How are you going to do that?

00:18:22.000 I'm like, come on, bud.

00:18:23.000 Yeah.

00:18:25.000 I'm sure there's some really good ones and I'm sure there's some real bad ones and everything in between.

00:18:30.000 Like all humans.

00:18:31.000 Yeah, kind of like all humans.

00:18:32.000 So on the Mormon church side of things, there's, you know, there's some doctrine, some church doctrine that says that the land is put here for the benefit of the people.

00:18:46.000 And you're basically, and I'm very much paraphrasing here, you're spiting God if you're not developing that land for profit, like for the profit of the people.

00:18:58.000 And so there is a strong theory that Mike Lee is.

00:19:05.000 Is he Mormon?

00:19:07.000 Yes.

00:19:08.000 Is so indoctrinated into this part of the church that this is like his divine mission.

00:19:15.000 Oh, that's a problem.

00:19:17.000 Right.

00:19:17.000 And so, yeah, I mean, it's religious zealotry.

00:19:21.000 Right.

00:19:23.000 I was not aware of that.

00:19:24.000 And so, but again, like, that doesn't have to be representative of the entire religion.

00:19:32.000 And to the people that I hang out with that are Mormon, it's absolutely not. 1.00

00:19:36.000 Right.

00:19:37.000 They, They're like public lands that are set aside for multiple use, don't get locked up, don't get developed in certain ways, are the best thing.

00:19:49.000 Right?

00:19:51.000 But, and this is something that just like has got to get talked about, Mike Lee is like very much in power.

00:19:59.000 He is the chair.

00:20:01.000 He's a senior senator.

00:20:03.000 He is the chair of the Energy and Natural Resources Committee in the Senate.

00:20:09.000 And like I said, he starts getting drug into the White House.

00:20:13.000 He starts consolidating power and he starts telling everybody, hey, I'm going to put this amendment in and you better not go against it or else for the next six years, which is technical, as long as Republicans stay in power, he's not going to lose his chairmanship of the Energy and Natural Resources Committee.

00:20:39.000 As long as he's there, none of their stuff is going to be read because it's the chair that decides what they're going to review, what they're going to look at, and what they're going to pass.

00:20:51.000 So here's this dude who is leveraging everything for his personal thing.

00:21:00.000 And he had his shot and he took it.

00:21:03.000 And fortunately, people started cluing in.

00:21:06.000 And there was enough of an on-ramp that there was a blowback literally in every state, all 50 states.

00:21:16.000 People wrote in to first their representatives, then their senators, and it created enough of a, oh my God, this is going to set back the entire Big Beautiful bill.

00:21:29.000 This is only one part of the dumpster fire that is the Big Beautiful bill, but it's going to take this whole thing off the tracks.

00:21:39.000 And that's why it's killed.

00:21:42.000 Now, Lee issued a statement, which is like a gut shot, if you're in my position who've been like tracking this thing, you know, since August.

00:21:54.000 And, you know, it said, oh, I listened to the American people, right?

00:21:59.000 Well, he rewrote the language.

00:22:02.000 He and his team, his staff, rewrote the language four different times to get it passed the Senate parliamentarian.

00:22:10.000 It did pass.

00:22:13.000 And you don't do that if you're listening to the American people, right?

00:22:18.000 The American people, by the end of this, were very united in saying, not one acre.

00:22:25.000 It started as not one acre in the budget reconciliation process, which is part of what they're doing here in the Big Beautiful Bill, or is what they're doing.

00:22:38.000 And the phrasing there really matters, right?

00:22:42.000 Like we have systems in place for land sales, legal framework, both of those, you know, it's acronyms, government acronyms, Flipma, Flipna.

00:22:56.000 And the revenues from land sales go back into acquiring land of greater value.

00:23:04.000 There's all these acts since 1781, all of these acts for the disposal of federally managed land.

00:23:15.000 And those two that I named are the most recent.

00:23:19.000 And they're designed to maybe not retain the same acreage, but provide the most value to the American people.

00:23:30.000 And what Lee was doing in this reconciliation process was completely circumventing that.

00:23:37.000 And as you mentioned, like nobody, no citizen of the United States is going to feel any change from dumping $100 million into the federal treasury right now.

00:23:54.000 And that's where the money was going.

00:23:59.000 So going forward in the future, how do we make sure that this never happens again?

00:24:05.000 Do we have to just keep doing this every few years when it comes up?

00:24:09.000 Well, yeah.

00:24:11.000 I mean, and that's the best thing that could have come out of this.

00:24:15.000 Like, we are going to make, we made this huge stink, right?

00:24:18.000 From all the different buckets that politicians pay attention to, right?

00:24:22.000 All the different user groups, Democrats, Republicans, Independents, everybody came together.

00:24:29.000 And more than likely, a shitload of people, the 36% of Americans who didn't vote in the last election, probably chose to speak up, some large percentage of them, and said no public land sales.

00:24:44.000 Hopefully that created enough of, you know, what they call in Washington is like a third rail issue.

00:24:51.000 It's like, it doesn't matter what side of the aisle you're on, you can't have this as part of your agenda because you're going to get shot down, right?

00:25:00.000 That's like the near-term win because that feeling won't last forever.

00:25:06.000 There's a piece of legislation out of Ryan Zinke's office, who's our Montana congressman, and he was actually started as Secretary of the Interior under Trump in his first term.

00:25:19.000 Zinke has this Public Lands and Public Hands Act, and it would not have prevented what just happened, this budget reconciliation thing, but it does put some more guardrails around the sale of federally managed land, and that would be like a really positive thing.

00:25:45.000 However, just like I explained, like Mike Lee's position in the Senate, it would have to get through him.

00:25:55.000 He's got to be circumvented.

00:25:56.000 There's no way he's going to vote for something like this.

00:25:59.000 And it's got to go through the House.

00:26:02.000 And everything I've heard about on the House committees is there's some people there that don't want to see this thing happen.

00:26:10.000 So more people are signing on to the Public Lands and Public Hands Act, which is awesome show of support.

00:26:21.000 Senator Heinrich out of New Mexico has got it written for the Senate.

00:26:25.000 No Republican co-sponsors.

00:26:27.000 He needs Republican co-sponsors in the Senate just to get the ball rolling there.

00:26:33.000 But we still have like these knuckleheads that are saying, if you didn't vote for my thing, I won't let a single good thing happen for the next six years.

00:26:42.000 That goes, you know, provided they don't get removed somehow, some way.

00:26:47.000 Yeah, it's really interesting when you see these bills.

00:26:51.000 Because these bills are like, I think they read the entire bill on the floor and it took 14 hours and no one was there.

00:27:01.000 They just read it to an empty audience because nobody sat around for 14 hours.

00:27:05.000 So what was it, 900 pages?

00:27:07.000 Yeah.

00:27:09.000 Just like, who's, how are you signing off on things that I know you're not reading?

00:27:13.000 Like, how crazy is that that this is a part of our process of government is that they pass these bills that have all sorts of weird shit piled into them.

00:27:25.000 Yeah.

00:27:25.000 Good things and bad things all together.

00:27:27.000 And you have to figure out like how much of the bad stuff do you allow because you want the good stuff.

00:27:33.000 And they all have to make these weird, shady fucking deals.

00:27:36.000 Yeah.

00:27:37.000 I mean, I got that text, the official text, you know, essentially as soon as it came out.

00:27:44.000 And public land sales were page 202.

00:27:49.000 So I just went straight to page 202 and read through the new language to see what, because it was another revision by Mike Lee to see if he could get that thing passed.

00:28:01.000 It was just typical crap.

00:28:05.000 Like he's not listening to anybody.

00:28:06.000 He's still pushing his agenda.

00:28:09.000 So when he revised it, what were the revisions and why did he put those revisions in?

00:28:14.000 So he started at U.S. Forest Service land and BLM land.

00:28:20.000 Which would be how many acres, all told?

00:28:23.000 Well, it would have been a possible like 500 million acres area in 11 western states.

00:28:34.000 And I want to say it would have been 2 to 3 million acres actually sold within five years.

00:28:43.000 So you're identifying out of 500 million, then you're narrowing it down to 2 to 3 million acres of Forest Service and BLM land.

00:28:57.000 And then, you know, he says it's for housing.

00:29:00.000 It's for housing.

00:29:00.000 But a lot of that is nowhere near development.

00:29:03.000 A lot of it's nowhere near development.

00:29:04.000 And the language of the text, even on the very last revision where you're supposed to be listening to American peoples, and he did throw in the word hunters there, hunters, I'm listening to you.

00:29:18.000 It says, like, bullet point one must be near existing infrastructure.

00:29:24.000 And then bullet point number seven, I think it was, was like, or very far away and hard to manage.

00:29:31.000 Right?

00:29:32.000 Which is all the rest.

00:29:34.000 Yeah.

00:29:34.000 So like somewhere in between here.

00:29:37.000 That's so crazy.

00:29:38.000 That's such a crazy piece of language or far away and hard to manage.

00:29:44.000 So all of it.

00:29:45.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:29:46.000 Like it just.

00:29:47.000 It's so vague.

00:29:48.000 He wants to get it through.

00:29:50.000 And then there's super fun language in there too, where it's like, okay, right if your first refusal is going to be state, then local government, through tribes in there.

00:30:01.000 And then the only other group would have been landowners within the checkerboard pattern, how we have like that, you know, grid system of federal land ownership and private land ownership.

00:30:19.000 Those landowners could also purchase more than anybody else would have been allowed to purchase.

00:30:28.000 So state, local, then your tribes and local landowners.

00:30:35.000 So basically like a huge handout to, you know, like, you know, the corner crossing case that we've been talking about, right?

00:30:44.000 Iron Bar Holdings.

00:30:46.000 They would have just purchased all those checkered board pieces and would have been legally allowed to do that.

00:30:51.000 Corner crossing to people.

00:30:52.000 So what corner crossing is, is like, say if there's an enormous piece of public land, but the only way you can get to it is to cross over a very small corner of private land.

00:31:03.000 For the longest time, that was prohibited, and you would get arrested.

00:31:06.000 So you'd get arrested for trespassing.

00:31:09.000 And we're talking about like a couple of feet.

00:31:12.000 Oh, not, I mean, we're talking about something so small you can't even possibly see it, right?

00:31:18.000 That's why it's been, it's like a theory, right?

00:31:21.000 It's, it's like for all the physics majors out there, right?

00:31:25.000 It's like that game of like, well, how do you get someplace if you only go 50% of the way, right?

00:31:32.000 You'll you keep going 50% and 50% and 50%.

00:31:36.000 It's like a theory.

00:31:37.000 Whereas in reality, like all it is is a footstep.

00:31:41.000 Yeah.

00:31:42.000 Like you're going to cross that corner in a footstep.

00:31:45.000 And we know where corners come together because it's right here.

00:31:50.000 But that theory thing is like, well, and then the airspace all the way down to the center of the earth and to the heavens is how it's written.

00:31:59.000 The crazy thing is, like, you could legitimately do it in a hop.

00:32:04.000 So you would never have stepped foot at all.

00:32:07.000 My 97-year-old grandma, who was hooked up to an oxygen tank, could have stepped across. 1.00

00:32:14.000 Like, I mean, it's, we're not talking about a feet of any sort.

00:32:19.000 We're not talking about like a football field that you have to cross.

00:32:22.000 No.

00:32:22.000 No, we're talking about like a couple inches.

00:32:25.000 Yep.

00:32:25.000 So just like so nuts.

00:32:27.000 Oh, it's infuriating is what it is.

00:32:29.000 So just like on Your checkerboard at home, pick any four corners that come together.

00:32:34.000 Where the two reds, imagine those are public and the two blacks are private. 1.00

00:32:39.000 Here it is.

00:32:40.000 There you go.

00:32:40.000 Let me explain it right there.

00:32:42.000 So, those little tiny spots in the corner, you were not supposed to cross.

00:32:48.000 Right.

00:32:48.000 Which is so crazy.

00:32:50.000 Yes.

00:32:51.000 That is so bananas that that was a real issue.

00:32:54.000 Exactly.

00:32:55.000 And look at this.

00:32:55.000 No trespassing.

00:32:57.000 Yeah.

00:32:58.000 And so that's really good.

00:32:59.000 That's the corner right there.

00:33:00.000 Yeah.

00:33:01.000 Isn't that nuts?

00:33:02.000 Like that little spot, no trespassing.

00:33:04.000 That little tiny gate is all you need.

00:33:07.000 Those two posts that are in the ground, those two signs to prevent people from accessing land that's theirs.

00:33:13.000 So that is where the corner is.

00:33:15.000 So if you go through that little thing, that little area right there, you're breaking the law, which is fucking insane.

00:33:23.000 And now, currently in the state of Wyoming, and I got to give a shout out to Wyoming backcountry hunters and anglers for having the spine and the backbone to bring this, help bring the people who were caught and prosecuted for corner crossing, you know, and support them financially.

00:33:45.000 We did a ton at Meat Eater 2 to help that legal case.

00:33:50.000 It went to the state court, then the Supreme Court, and then the 9th District Court.

00:33:59.000 And the last I heard is Iron Bar now wants to take it to the Supreme Court of the United States, SCODUS, and have, which is ultimately really good.

00:34:14.000 We always joke that we're going to send old Fred Eshelman, the owner of Iron Bar, like a public landowner t-shirt, because he's going to make this stuff public for everybody.

00:34:24.000 Because it's going to be, right now there's only two federal cases that have defined corner crossing.

00:34:31.000 They're both in favor of the people of the United States.

00:34:35.000 So you can legally step across, shocking, I know, from one piece of public to the next piece of public.

00:34:43.000 And then if and when this thing makes it to the Supreme Court, the only reason he hasn't filed is because of this stuff with Mike Lee, right?

00:34:53.000 It would have solved all of his problems.

00:34:54.000 He would have just purchased those checkerboard pieces of BLM land within his ranch boundaries and just been done with it.

00:35:02.000 Yeah.

00:35:03.000 Right.

00:35:04.000 And that's a really, there's a lot of those pieces in a lot of states, and states actually fund the ability to trespass for hunting on a lot of those landlocked pieces.

00:35:22.000 To create easements.

00:35:23.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:35:24.000 Yeah.

00:35:26.000 But it's typically done through like the state wildlife agencies where you get an easement so people can go out there.

00:35:31.000 If you got a conservation license, you can go hunt out there.

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00:36:52.000 Well, it's also today, I could imagine how a long time ago you would get a lot of confusion and it would lead to people trespassing accidentally on public land or on private land rather because we're looking at maps, you know, and people would be, you know, 100 yards to the left, 100 yards to the right, and maybe not good navigators.

00:37:15.000 But now when you have things like GoHunt, OnX, SpartanForge, all these apps that hunters use now that use GPS, you're 100% accurate.

00:37:27.000 And a lot of the law enforcement agencies are using those same things.

00:37:31.000 So they can be on the same page as the hunter or access seeker or whatever you want to say.

00:37:37.000 Super easy to follow.

00:37:39.000 And there's no worries at all about encroaching on private land.

00:37:39.000 Yeah.

00:37:44.000 Yeah.

00:37:44.000 And also it's like, what's the harm, right?

00:37:47.000 Like when you sue somebody, you have to establish what the impact is, what the harm is.

00:37:53.000 And in these cases that went to the Supreme Courts, they're like, well, what are the damages?

00:38:01.000 Explain to me what the damages are.

00:38:01.000 Right.

00:38:03.000 Right.

00:38:04.000 And they really can't.

00:38:05.000 Right.

00:38:06.000 There's no damages.

00:38:07.000 They just don't want hunters on their property.

00:38:09.000 People that have a lot of land for whatever reason, I guess it's how they acquire a lot of land in the first place.

00:38:15.000 A lot of them are fucking greedy.

00:38:17.000 Well, there's some hunters, right?

00:38:20.000 Yeah.

00:38:22.000 But that's a greedy thing.

00:38:24.000 Like, you have 800 acres and there's this like little sliver.

00:38:29.000 And you're like, no.

00:38:30.000 Can't have that.

00:38:31.000 I know, man.

00:38:31.000 Mine.

00:38:32.000 Mine.

00:38:34.000 And then, I mean, there's absolutely wonderful humans on the spectrum.

00:38:39.000 Oh, yeah.

00:38:40.000 This dude that I grew up with, we guided on parts of his place growing up.

00:38:47.000 Right when I got my first ever GPS and the ONX was a card that you inserted into your GPS, he used to come pick me up so I could open the gates for him.

00:38:58.000 And then he'd just BS and it was amazing.

00:39:01.000 And we'd drive all over eastern Montana, all on his property.

00:39:05.000 And his name was Leo Solph, Leo Solph.

00:39:10.000 And we came up to this fence line and I was like, Leo, did you know that this brand new fence is 100 feet on your side of the property line?

00:39:23.000 And this was a whole section, right?

00:39:25.000 So it ran for a mile.

00:39:28.000 And he goes, Ryan, can't own the whole world and just didn't say another thing about it.

00:39:35.000 Like, not worth me worrying about.

00:39:38.000 Yeah.

00:39:38.000 Well, how many acres did he have?

00:39:40.000 Like 30,000, probably.

00:39:42.000 That's a rational gentleman.

00:39:43.000 Yeah, exactly, right?

00:39:45.000 Exactly.

00:39:46.000 Somebody fucked up.

00:39:47.000 But there's people on the other side, too.

00:39:50.000 You know, and that's like that old rancher mentality of like, you know what?

00:39:53.000 There's going to be a fire and we're all going to need to get together and help each other out.

00:39:58.000 And maybe I'll talk to him then about it.

00:40:00.000 Or, you know, whatever, calving season, harvest season, all the things that bring those communities together, these very independent people, they got to work together at different times of the year.

00:40:12.000 And that's like kind of a beautiful thing.

00:40:14.000 You can only be so much of a dick.

00:40:16.000 Right.

00:40:18.000 But then there's that other side now where it's like, I'm going to patrol my property from Florida via drone.

00:40:26.000 Oh, God.

00:40:27.000 And I'm going to hot dial the sheriff's department anytime I see anything that looks like stepping over that property line, right?

00:40:35.000 Whether it's to fix a fence that I'm not there to fix or get your cattle off of my property, I'm calling the sheriff.

00:40:42.000 And that exists too.

00:40:44.000 Sure.

00:40:44.000 Right?

00:40:45.000 And it's that community breakdown, which is horrifying to me.

00:40:45.000 Yeah.

00:40:52.000 But also, man, like people don't understand the jobs that these lands do, right?

00:40:59.000 And like you're saying, like the urban folks, where that state comes from, where their groceries come from, it's not the grocery store.

00:41:08.000 Like there should be an instructional video before you can enter the supermarket.

00:41:14.000 You know?

00:41:15.000 Because it takes space.

00:41:16.000 It takes this land.

00:41:18.000 And we think, people think in terms of like, oh, a million is a big number.

00:41:25.000 Let's say we do have 640 million acres of public land, right?

00:41:30.000 Well, there's like 1.2 billion acres of land in the U.S. set aside specifically for agriculture.

00:41:38.000 And I think some like private timberland falls in that too, right?

00:41:42.000 So that's private land, 1.2 billion where the bulk of our food's coming off, ideally.

00:41:51.000 On the public land side of the fence, we have grazing leases.

00:41:56.000 So you can run cattle and sheep on public ground.

00:41:59.000 You pay a minimal, I would say a very minimal fee for that, right?

00:42:06.000 And it's based off of an animal on that ground for a month, animal unit month AUM.

00:42:16.000 And on our public ground, that's like a dollar, I want to say it's $1.35 per animal unit month.

00:42:29.000 And just in the state of Montana, it just got dropped again, but it hit as high as $24 animal unit month.

00:42:38.000 So if you have those federal leases, it's a big thing that you want to protect too, right?

00:42:44.000 So you have to, in theory, show that stewardship aspect out there on the public land because everybody can come check it out to retain your ability to keep running cattle out there or sheep or whatever it is.

00:43:00.000 What's going on with that American prairie?

00:43:04.000 Yeah, the American prairie thing.

00:43:06.000 Yeah, so that's in the home state of Montana.

00:43:10.000 Explain that to people.

00:43:11.000 Yeah, so basically the fear is it's going to be a privatized national park that people aren't going to be able to go out on.

00:43:21.000 Well, I don't think that's true.

00:43:23.000 It might be a bunch of private philanthropic dollars, a lot of which is coming from overseas.

00:43:33.000 I think the Dutch have somehow, some way, dumped a bunch of cash in there. 1.00

00:43:41.000 And it is to connect a bunch of private land and Bureau of Land Management land out there, BLM, into one contiguous chunk,

00:43:58.000 remove as many fences as you can, and allow that chunk of prairie to basically revert back to its natural state with natural species, the American buffalo being like their big goal species.

00:44:24.000 They've done an incredible job raising cash to get this done.

00:44:30.000 They're purchasing these places.

00:44:34.000 They would say at fair market value, there's a big argument there because they have so much money, they're going to win a bidding process.

00:44:43.000 So is it really fair?

00:44:45.000 Is what the local ranchers would say.

00:44:49.000 But right now, and knock on wood, for as long as they exist, they're going to keep providing public access.

00:44:56.000 And they have a really good public access program.

00:45:00.000 So they can work with the state of Montana for our private land public access program where you can sign up either at just like a kiosk type deal, sign-in box, and walk out on their place.

00:45:16.000 But then they have like yurts that you can rent.

00:45:19.000 So the kiosk is just set up as you get there and you just put in your name and what time you're going there.

00:45:26.000 And do you have to have any kind of ID that you put in there?

00:45:29.000 Nothing?

00:45:29.000 No.

00:45:30.000 No, I mean, the state of Montana want to ask for your license plate number and your home address and phone number, and that's it.

00:45:38.000 So, and then it's, I mean, they have a lot of gorgeous ground.

00:45:45.000 Honestly, you know, when we did our big float in Montana, they own some of that property now that runs right up to the Missouri, right there around Cow Island is kind of where we took out real close to there.

00:46:00.000 And they own, I mean, they own some of the stuff that we hiked around on.

00:46:04.000 Yeah.

00:46:04.000 Oh, wow.

00:46:05.000 Yeah.

00:46:06.000 But their vision is to have this big, contiguous chunk and have it run like, you know, pre-European civilization here on the North American continent.

00:46:20.000 Wow.

00:46:21.000 Yeah.

00:46:22.000 Yeah.

00:46:23.000 And it's, I mean, it's gorgeous stuff.

00:46:25.000 And they provide for some buffalo hunts out there.

00:46:31.000 So you can draw a tag and go out and shoot a yearling or an old bull.

00:46:41.000 And they give you, it's not like a handhold thing.

00:46:45.000 When they say an old bull, how do you determine?

00:46:48.000 Just by sheer size.

00:46:50.000 Just size.

00:46:51.000 Yeah.

00:46:52.000 So you have to be experienced.

00:46:53.000 You have to know what you're doing.

00:46:54.000 Yeah, and they'll give you some classes and some pointers, but they don't hold your hand and say, hey, come shoot this one.

00:47:03.000 It's like, here's this information.

00:47:06.000 Return it when you're done.

00:47:08.000 Rules of the ranch, all that stuff.

00:47:11.000 Go through this gate, enjoy it, leave it how you found it type of thing.

00:47:16.000 And I've never done it myself, but people have had really fantastic experiences out there doing that.

00:47:22.000 And obviously that's an absolute shitload of meat, right?

00:47:26.000 Oh, yeah.

00:47:27.000 And if they do that widespread, like what is the ultimate goal?

00:47:31.000 Like, how much land are we talking about?

00:47:34.000 And like, are they bringing animals in or are they allowing the existing animals to breed?

00:47:39.000 And like, how are they doing it?

00:47:41.000 So yes to allowing the existing animals to breed and yes to bringing the animals in.

00:47:48.000 So they're coming out of the, I think the Yellowstone population more than anything.

00:47:56.000 And then they work with the local tribes up there to kind of bring those animals in and some go to the tribe and then some go stay on the prairie, I think is how it goes.

00:48:10.000 And then the reason that they're allowing for these old bulls to be shot is because they're no longer breeding.

00:48:19.000 Right.

00:48:20.000 Yeah.

00:48:21.000 It's interesting.

00:48:22.000 Have you ever read Dan Flores' piece on American Buffalo?

00:48:26.000 Yeah.

00:48:26.000 Buffalo Diplomacy.

00:48:27.000 Was it Buffalo Ecology, Buffalo Diplomacy?

00:48:30.000 Oh, I read the American Serengeti.

00:48:35.000 That one.

00:48:36.000 Yeah, that's great too.

00:48:38.000 His theory is, and I think it's valid, that the time where they saw millions of buffalo was because the Native Americans had been wiped out by disease. 0.99

00:48:50.000 This is the idea, is that there was never a time where there were that many bison.

00:48:56.000 Yeah.

00:48:56.000 And that the reason why there were that many bison was because the Native Americans weren't hunting them anymore because they were 90% of them were wiped out by disease.

00:49:03.000 That's why when they made their way across and I guess it was like the early 1800s.

00:49:10.000 Oh, like Lewis and Clark.

00:49:11.000 Yeah, when they saw millions and millions of bison, the reason for that was that human predator population was in a trough.

00:49:19.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:49:20.000 And it allowed the bison to be in a spike.

00:49:23.000 Yeah.

00:49:25.000 It completely makes sense.

00:49:26.000 Oh, it totally makes sense.

00:49:27.000 Because, yeah, we always have those conversations about like when would be the best time to go back if you could, right?

00:49:27.000 Yeah.

00:49:35.000 And also how could it be that that big total buffalo population number that always gets thrown out there was really on the landscape.

00:49:49.000 Right.

00:49:49.000 Like, why wasn't there a balance of predator and prey where there always is if it was really natural?

00:49:55.000 Right?

00:49:56.000 It does make sense.

00:49:57.000 Oh, it totally.

00:49:58.000 I mean, humans have been stirring the pot forever.

00:50:00.000 That's why it drives me insane when people are like, well, before people.

00:50:05.000 I'm like, well, what are you talking about?

00:50:05.000 Yeah, fuck that.

00:50:07.000 One that doesn't get us anywhere right now.

00:50:08.000 Right.

00:50:09.000 Before people is the dumbest fucking argument ever.

00:50:11.000 They were here first.

00:50:13.000 Well, this is the argument they use with wolves.

00:50:15.000 You know, like, they were here first.

00:50:16.000 Like, shut the fuck up. 0.96

00:50:18.000 Just shut the fuck up. 1.00

00:50:19.000 Stop.

00:50:20.000 No, they weren't.

00:50:21.000 First of all, I love people.

00:50:23.000 Okay.

00:50:24.000 I'm only concerned with when people were around.

00:50:27.000 So before people, fuck off.

00:50:29.000 You want to kill all the people off so the wolves can run things? 0.99

00:50:31.000 Like, what are you even saying?

00:50:32.000 Right.

00:50:33.000 What are we going to learn from a pre-human time?

00:50:35.000 It doesn't make any sense.

00:50:36.000 And there was obviously some sort of an imbalance that led to these enormous populations of bison.

00:50:43.000 And I think Dan Flores is an incredibly brilliant guy.

00:50:46.000 I think he makes a really compelling argument because we do know that the Native Americans were wiped out, that 90% of them were killed off by disease.

00:50:54.000 We know that we're talking about millions of people.

00:50:57.000 And if millions of people were subsistence hunters and, you know, they were riding around, living off the buffalo, following them around, which we know they did, completely makes sense. 0.84

00:51:07.000 Especially when you take into account the long gestation period, bison, I think they have to be pregnant for a long time, right?

00:51:15.000 Boy, I don't know about that one.

00:51:17.000 The woolly mammoth, I know, is a long time.

00:51:19.000 I'm sure it was because, yeah, that was like African elephants.

00:51:22.000 Yeah.

00:51:23.000 I wonder what is a buffalo gestation period?

00:51:27.000 Nine months.

00:51:28.000 So like a person.

00:51:29.000 Yeah.

00:51:30.000 Very different than like a deer.

00:51:32.000 Very different than a lot of other animals.

00:51:36.000 I mean, it's badass seeing those things out there.

00:51:41.000 I mean, it really, really is.

00:51:44.000 Because there's some part of your, whatever people call it these days, your lizard brain or whatever.

00:51:49.000 Yeah.

00:51:50.000 Where you know that that's their home, right?

00:51:54.000 And then you see that thing on that landscape and something just clicks and you're like, holy shit, man.

00:52:01.000 Oh, it's amazing.

00:52:01.000 Pretty cool.

00:52:03.000 It's pretty cool just to see them in Yellowstone.

00:52:05.000 You know, which is kind of weird.

00:52:05.000 Yeah.

00:52:09.000 The Yellowstone thing is weird.

00:52:10.000 I went there a few years back with my family, and it's really beautiful, and I enjoyed it.

00:52:13.000 But I did not like the fact that all the elk were hanging out at the visitor station because they know they can't be hunted there and they know the wolves won't go there.

00:52:21.000 It was real weird.

00:52:22.000 They're like so domesticated.

00:52:24.000 They're just like 30 yards away from a fucking vending machine.

00:52:28.000 You see this big herd of elk just laying down on the ground, staring at people and people taking selfies with the animals.

00:52:35.000 I'm like, I don't know about this.

00:52:39.000 I know.

00:52:40.000 Yeah, habituated as shit, as a lot of my biologist friends would say.

00:52:45.000 Yeah, it's the national park system, right, is like, it's an absolute wonderful thing.

00:52:55.000 I know there's lots of dedicated civil servants within the national park system that bust their asses educating folks, but they just can't keep up.

00:53:05.000 Have you ever seen the Instagram page Torons of Yellowstone?

00:53:09.000 Yeah.

00:53:10.000 Doing God's work right there.

00:53:12.000 Yeah.

00:53:12.000 Darwin in action.

00:53:14.000 If you go to it, it says like people are just getting launched through the air by bison.

00:53:18.000 Yeah.

00:53:18.000 And God, how do they not know by now?

00:53:22.000 I mean, how do you not know that you can't get it?

00:53:25.000 Because of the exact thing you're describing.

00:53:28.000 They're like, oh, it's on the tour.

00:53:31.000 Right?

00:53:32.000 Yeah.

00:53:32.000 It's like, it's fortunately, they've trained the bison to stand right next to the visitor information sign or the bull elk or whatever, right?

00:53:42.000 It's like, this just is the way it's supposed to be.

00:53:45.000 And then they'll walk right up to it to try to get us healthy. 0.84

00:53:48.000 Yeah.

00:53:50.000 Oh, wow.

00:53:52.000 Nothing happens here besides they're just close.

00:53:55.000 Well, that there's a calm in the middle.

00:53:57.000 There's no fucking way that guy should be standing there.

00:54:00.000 If I was that guy, I would be in that car as fast as I could.

00:54:04.000 I'll climb it through the passenger side like, fuck this.

00:54:07.000 Because danger, do not approach wildlife.

00:54:10.000 I went up to watch the bison hunting season there in Yellowstone in the gardener entrance, south entrance, or north entrance to the park.

00:54:22.000 And a bunch of the tribes were down doing their harvest.

00:54:27.000 And I was riding with Montana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks.

00:54:31.000 Got to do a little ride along.

00:54:33.000 And it was the most successful hunt they've ever had.

00:54:36.000 So this was three years ago now.

00:54:39.000 Tons of snow in the park.

00:54:41.000 Some old cow bison decided to just lead everybody out. 0.99

00:54:45.000 And there's like hunt rosters.

00:54:48.000 So you draw your bison tag, but then you can also be on a list in case those tags get filled, which they never do.

00:54:55.000 But this year it did happen.

00:54:58.000 And then all the tribes came up for their harvest.

00:55:02.000 And it was amazing.

00:55:04.000 Like there were people knocking buffalo down everywhere.

00:55:09.000 And in fact, so many that they had to come up with a system to where they'd be like, okay, between daylight and like 9 a.m., nobody's going to walk beyond this line.

00:55:24.000 Because let everybody shoot and then we'll all go out together and start cutting up bison and get them out of there. 1.00

00:55:31.000 And then the next round of hunters can have at it.

00:55:34.000 It was like a safety issue.

00:55:36.000 Yeah.

00:55:37.000 Yeah.

00:55:38.000 Is this actually on the park?

00:55:40.000 No.

00:55:40.000 So this is, it's called the zone of tolerance, which is a creepy, creepy name, if you're asking me.

00:55:50.000 Zone of tolerance.

00:55:51.000 So all the states, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, that's around Yellowstone National Park, the cattle producers have real fears of brucellosis, which is a disease that bison and elk pack around, and it causes domestic cattle to abort calves.

00:56:12.000 So hurts them in the pocketbook, bad deal.

00:56:16.000 Well, they want slash need to reduce bison populations within the park.

00:56:24.000 Can't hunt inside the park.

00:56:27.000 But at the same time, all the cattlemen associations, they don't want those bison coming out of the park.

00:56:35.000 So what do you do?

00:56:36.000 Well, they came up with the zone of tolerance idea, which is a hunting perimeter around the park.

00:56:45.000 They remove all the domestic cattle from within that zone.

00:56:51.000 And then the bison, if they come out of the park into that zone, they're fair game for hunters.

00:56:56.000 If they make it beyond that zone somehow, some way, then anybody can shoot one.

00:57:04.000 But typically there's like a brand inspector there to take care of any bison that make it beyond the border of the zone of tolerance.

00:57:14.000 What do you mean by brand inspector?

00:57:15.000 What does that mean?

00:57:16.000 Cattle brand.

00:57:18.000 Oh.

00:57:19.000 Yep.

00:57:20.000 So how does that work?

00:57:20.000 Yep.

00:57:21.000 Well, so he's an agent of the state.

00:57:24.000 Oh.

00:57:25.000 And he is there to, in this particular case, like protect the interest of the cattlemen's associations, cattle ranchers.

00:57:38.000 Right.

00:57:39.000 And so, yeah, somehow, someway, he's authorized to whack those bison if they make it beyond. 1.00

00:57:45.000 But really what...

00:57:48.000 It gets donated to any one of those tribal members that's there probably has right of first refusal at least. 0.71

00:57:56.000 If not, it would go straight to the food pantry.

00:57:59.000 Yeah, I mean, no waste.

00:58:02.000 And in years past, there's been groups that go up there just to go pull anything that's left in the field, the bones, stuff like that for making stock.

00:58:14.000 There's groups that go up there and literally take the carcasses off the ground because it is highly sought after food stuff, right?

00:58:25.000 It's a lot of bone broth you can make with a 2,000-pound critter.

00:58:29.000 Yeah.

00:58:30.000 Wow.

00:58:31.000 Yeah.

00:58:32.000 But That was an amazing experience.

00:58:34.000 And like the each tribe brings their own tribal game warden with them.

00:58:40.000 They're kind of like in charge of their people.

00:58:42.000 They're coordinating to maximize the harvest.

00:58:47.000 And so they're helping, very willing to help people like coordinate to get their animal and get out of the field so they can get the next person in there.

00:58:57.000 And that's part of the system outside of trapping.

00:59:02.000 So they trap inside the park and then they'll take those animals, move them to a separate facility where they go through, I can't remember how long of a period of monitoring for brucellosis.

00:59:17.000 And then once that herd is, the trapped herd is considered brucellosis-free, then they can be given to the tribes or sold.

00:59:30.000 Interesting.

00:59:31.000 So that's how when people have bison on private land, that's how they get them there?

00:59:36.000 I mean, there's a couple other populations, but yeah.

00:59:39.000 Yep, that's one of them.

00:59:40.000 And what's the population of bison in the United States now?

00:59:43.000 I don't know.

00:59:44.000 I mean, I think they're gunning for 6,000 just inside the park.

00:59:49.000 What do they have now?

00:59:51.000 Oh, I don't know.

00:59:52.000 Jamie, you'd have to look that up.

00:59:57.000 Oh, I don't know.

00:59:57.000 Weird.

00:59:59.000 It says estimated at around 500,000, smaller portion, 31,000 managed.

01:00:05.000 And then like sixth grand in Yellowstone.

01:00:10.000 There it is.

01:00:10.000 Yeah.

01:00:11.000 Very, varying numbers, though.

01:00:13.000 Boy, they came so close to being wiped out.

01:00:15.000 Oh, it's so wild.

01:00:16.000 It's so really it's crazy.

01:00:18.000 So wild.

01:00:19.000 I was staring at, I was like, Jeff, what's the deal with this skull?

01:00:24.000 Your bison antique skull that you have out there?

01:00:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:00:27.000 That thing is amazing.

01:00:29.000 That's from my friend John Reeves in Alaska.

01:00:31.000 I was wondering.

01:00:32.000 Yeah, I was wondering what you got.

01:00:32.000 Do you know about the boneyard?

01:00:33.000 Yeah.

01:00:34.000 Oh, yeah.

01:00:34.000 Do you know about that place?

01:00:35.000 That place is nuts.

01:00:36.000 For a dude who likes to pick stuff off the ground, that's like a porn page.

01:00:40.000 Oh, yeah.

01:00:41.000 It's a crazy place.

01:00:42.000 And there's no real explanation of why there's such a population of dead animals in this one spot.

01:00:49.000 And he thinks it's connected to the Younger Dry's impact theory because there's a very clear, distinct line of carbon in his ground.

01:00:57.000 Like that, when you go deep, deep, deep into the ground, which represents where these, like a lot of these things that he's pulling, they're plus 10,000 years old.

01:01:05.000 Like that step bison head. 1.00

01:01:07.000 We didn't get it checked.

01:01:08.000 We didn't have it sent off.

01:01:10.000 But a lot of the stuff he has dated, you know, older than 10,000 years.

01:01:15.000 And so what he thinks is that this is one of the areas where there was an impact.

01:01:21.000 You know, this younger dryest impact theory, there's two time periods.

01:01:25.000 One is around 11,800 years ago, and then there's another one somewhere around 10,000 plus years ago.

01:01:31.000 And he thinks one of those areas is where he was, or where his spot in Alaska is.

01:01:37.000 And this deep, rich layer of carbon seems to indicate some massive burn that happened through that area.

01:01:44.000 And it coincides with this immense pile of bones and ivory and, you know, mammoth skeletons and cave bears and all this shit.

01:01:55.000 Like, it's just a small area.

01:01:57.000 You know, his area is only like, the area where they're pulling these bones from is only a few acres.

01:02:03.000 No way.

01:02:03.000 Yeah.

01:02:04.000 He thinks it was a wash.

01:02:06.000 So with the impact came this immediate melting of a lot of the ice caps.

01:02:13.000 You know, and this is what they think happened that ended the ice age in North America.

01:02:17.000 You know, 10,000 plus years ago, you're looking at more than a mile high ice in a giant chunk of North America.

01:02:25.000 And then almost instantaneously, that stuff gets melted.

01:02:30.000 And this coincides with Randall Carlson's theories about this too, which also was unsubstantiated until they came up with the core samples for the Younger Dry Ice Impact Theory.

01:02:40.000 And they go, no, this happened.

01:02:41.000 Like there was a fucking massive impact.

01:02:44.000 Somewhere around 30% of the entire world was hit by comets.

01:02:49.000 And this area where John has, look at this, 2.1 to 2.3 acres.

01:02:55.000 So if you look at the amount of stuff that he has, I mean, 2.3 acres is like a nice yard, right?

01:03:01.000 It's like a nice, a person's really, oh, you got a nice piece of land here, nice yard.

01:03:05.000 That's where he's pulling thousands of dead animals.

01:03:09.000 Yeah.

01:03:10.000 And if you look at his, his boneyard, if you look at some of the some of the warehouses that he has, this is his Instagram page.

01:03:19.000 Boneyard Alaska is the Instagram page.

01:03:21.000 But he's got enormous warehouses filled with tusks.

01:03:27.000 And it's only from a couple acres.

01:03:29.000 Yeah, so they didn't walk to that spot and tip over.

01:03:32.000 They got collected there.

01:03:34.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:03:34.000 They were into there.

01:03:36.000 And very similar time period.

01:03:38.000 Look at all this stuff, man.

01:03:39.000 Fucking crazy.

01:03:40.000 And look back at the other picture when you, right before, look at that truck filled with heads.

01:03:45.000 I mean, this is nuts, man.

01:03:47.000 And this is like a day's haul.

01:03:49.000 This is crazy, man.

01:03:51.000 It's really crazy.

01:03:53.000 It's really pretty extraordinary.

01:03:55.000 And thankfully, John has both the resources and the desire to blast the permafrost with these high-pressure hoses to get all the stuff out of there.

01:04:05.000 But, I mean, he's trying to set up a legitimate research facility out there.

01:04:09.000 You know, these scientists, they want to take the stuff and bring it somewhere.

01:04:12.000 He's like, fuck off.

01:04:13.000 If you want to do it, you're going to do it right here.

01:04:15.000 This is my land.

01:04:16.000 We're not.

01:04:17.000 He already had a problem with the Museum of Natural History.

01:04:21.000 Is that what it was?

01:04:22.000 Yeah.

01:04:22.000 In New York.

01:04:23.000 They dumped tons of his bones into the East River.

01:04:27.000 So the property that he owned before he owned it, someone else owned it.

01:04:31.000 That is his property.

01:04:32.000 They took it.

01:04:33.000 They were supposed to do research on it, but they had so many bones that they dumped a lot of it in the East River.

01:04:38.000 And the museum denied it.

01:04:40.000 And so he got divers to go look for it.

01:04:44.000 And they found it exactly where they and they found steppe bison bones and all kinds of crazy shit that's not supposed to be there in a pile in the East River.

01:04:54.000 When we were looking at the zone of tolerance.

01:04:59.000 Not the zone of tolerance, the range, sorry, of bison, of buffalo.

01:05:06.000 I was thinking of your skull that you have out there, but I found a gorgeous one in this wash in Alberta.

01:05:14.000 And it would be like their summer range.

01:05:19.000 So north of the Montana border, not all that far, up near the Saskatchewan River Breaks.

01:05:25.000 And you get up on these bluffs that overlook the river, and you're like, oh, you just feel like somebody would have been sitting there watching stuff.

01:05:32.000 And then if you look around, there's all, I mean, thousands over a lot of miles, but thousands of teepee rings.

01:05:41.000 So all the tribes would go up there to hunt bison and camp out, a little bit of cooler weather.

01:05:49.000 And that's where I found this bison skull.

01:05:52.000 Did you find the arrowheads up there?

01:05:54.000 There's a ton of them, but you can't take anything up there.

01:05:57.000 Yep.

01:05:58.000 Yep, yeah.

01:05:59.000 And I called Alberta Fishing Game on this thing because I was so stoked about it.

01:06:03.000 And they were like, oh, we just consider that cattle up here.

01:06:09.000 Like, you can take it.

01:06:10.000 Like, okay.

01:06:11.000 Wow.

01:06:11.000 Yeah.

01:06:12.000 Yeah.

01:06:13.000 How old is the skull?

01:06:14.000 Do you know?

01:06:16.000 Well, it was such a pretty skull.

01:06:18.000 People are like, oh, it's got to be Bison Antiquus.

01:06:20.000 But it's just, it's nowhere near.

01:06:24.000 That's amazing.

01:06:25.000 Is that a freshie? 0.93

01:06:26.000 Did somebody make that or no?

01:06:28.000 No, that's a Comanche head from here. 1.00

01:06:28.000 No way. 1.00

01:06:32.000 That's crazy.

01:06:33.000 Yeah.

01:06:34.000 I showed it to Remy, and he said it's really big, so they're probably using it for fish.

01:06:38.000 Wow.

01:06:39.000 Yeah.

01:06:41.000 That's amazing.

01:06:42.000 It's interesting that the bigger ones, like that is like kind of a normal arrowhead for elk or deer.

01:06:49.000 Like if in today's standards, if you look at that, that looks like an iron will.

01:06:54.000 That's basically an iron wheel wide, right?

01:06:57.000 And they didn't use them that big.

01:06:58.000 They had smaller ones because they didn't have much that much.

01:07:01.000 They wanted penetration.

01:07:02.000 They wanted real penetration.

01:07:06.000 Pretty cool.

01:07:07.000 Oh, so cool.

01:07:09.000 So cool.

01:07:10.000 There's a friend of mine has a ranch out here and they've got thousands of them.

01:07:14.000 You know, like the Comanche must have used that area and he has literally thousands and thousands of arrowheads.

01:07:21.000 He's got boxes of them all just all of them are dated and certified.

01:07:27.000 Like they know what time period they came from.

01:07:30.000 And yeah, so like why was that chunk of ground in use for that long, right?

01:07:34.000 Yeah.

01:07:34.000 If he's got that many, it's not because one group of people camped there for a couple of days.

01:07:39.000 Those thousands of years, probably.

01:07:41.000 Well, it's because it's really rich.

01:07:43.000 You know, it's like, it's right off the Colorado River.

01:07:46.000 So a lot of resources, a lot of foliage, a lot of animals there to this day.

01:07:52.000 Yeah.

01:07:53.000 Yeah.

01:07:55.000 That's one of the things that you can tell people.

01:07:58.000 It's like, do you want, you want to know why public lands matter?

01:08:03.000 97% of winter vegetables consumed in the U.S. that are from the U.S. are irrigated by the Colorado River.

01:08:11.000 97%.

01:08:13.000 So if your mommies and daddies are out there eating a nice green salad in the winter months, all that is fed by water from public land.

01:08:22.000 Like, do we want that shit to be privatized?

01:08:24.000 Right.

01:08:25.000 Like, what happens then?

01:08:25.000 Yeah.

01:08:27.000 Yeah.

01:08:29.000 Well, Bill Gates already owns more farmland in this country than anybody.

01:08:34.000 You know, I keep hearing that.

01:08:35.000 Is he doing good stuff with it?

01:08:37.000 There's no way.

01:08:38.000 No?

01:08:39.000 No.

01:08:40.000 There's no way.

01:08:42.000 I can't imagine that.

01:08:43.000 What's his angle?

01:08:44.000 Oh.

01:08:45.000 Well, I know he was in the fucking veggie burger business for a while, but that shit went tits up.

01:08:50.000 Dude, I am so anti, anti the lab-grown and yeah. 1.00

01:08:56.000 Well, that stuff's not even a real burger.

01:08:59.000 It's filled with seed oils and all these fucking, all this goo that you need to make sure that it connects together.

01:09:05.000 And then people would pretend that it's delicious.

01:09:07.000 Oh, this is delicious.

01:09:08.000 You can't even tell the difference.

01:09:10.000 You can't tell the difference?

01:09:11.000 Where are you getting your burgers?

01:09:13.000 Because you're eating cardboard burger.

01:09:15.000 This is bullshit.

01:09:17.000 And it's just bad for you.

01:09:18.000 You know, that's where it went tits up when those studies that came out that said it's given lab rats cancer.

01:09:26.000 Oh, yeah.

01:09:27.000 Well, listen, I think it's just bad for all of us because if people think that your food can come from someplace other than the land, then there's no value to that land.

01:09:39.000 Well, it's vegetable-based, right?

01:09:41.000 But then it's highly processed.

01:09:44.000 It's not like, you know, you're eating an eggplant.

01:09:48.000 You know, you're not eating a squash.

01:09:50.000 You're eating something that's gone through this insane process to make pretend that it's a burger.

01:09:57.000 And, you know, there's a lot of investors who lost a shit ton of money because they were lied to.

01:10:02.000 They were told that this is going to be easy to make and it's going to be really convenient and people are going to love it.

01:10:07.000 And people are looking for an alternative to meat.

01:10:10.000 No, actually they're not.

01:10:11.000 And this is the only thing that was...

01:10:16.000 And when COVID came and, you know, there was a lot of shortages in the supermarkets and the lockdowns and all that jazz, he's like, the only shit that's available here is this fucking bullshit fake meat.

01:10:26.000 Like fake meat was the only, he sent a picture.

01:10:29.000 It was the only thing left on the shelf was like Beyond Meat or Beyond Burger or whatever the fuck it's called.

01:10:35.000 Impossible burger.

01:10:38.000 Yeah.

01:10:38.000 That's a good litmus test, right?

01:10:40.000 If the world's going to end.

01:10:40.000 Yeah.

01:10:41.000 And nobody reaching for it and people still aren't eating it.

01:10:44.000 It's fucking, it's actually bad for you.

01:10:46.000 Seed oils are bad for you.

01:10:48.000 And those things are filled with seed oils.

01:10:49.000 And it's also filled with a bunch of process because you can't just, it's not, you know, look, if you want to be vegetarian, just eat vegetables.

01:10:58.000 Okay.

01:10:58.000 Don't pretend you're eating some fucking fake burger.

01:11:02.000 Oh, yeah.

01:11:03.000 I know one of my biggest pet peeves in life, a buddy of mine was like going down the vegan train and we had to stop in all these towns that had like the best vegan restaurant.

01:11:12.000 And I'm like, they're stealing our names for food.

01:11:18.000 Right.

01:11:18.000 The meat eater's name for food.

01:11:20.000 And tofurki.

01:11:22.000 Oh my God.

01:11:23.000 Yeah.

01:11:23.000 And be like, chicken fingers, Reuben sandwich.

01:11:28.000 I'm like, can't you just be proud of what You're putting in your body.

01:11:32.000 I don't care if it's just vegetables, but just eat Indian food.

01:11:35.000 There's a lot of really great Indian restaurants that are totally vegetarian.

01:11:39.000 I used to eat at one that was in Woodland Hills.

01:11:41.000 It was great.

01:11:42.000 It was really cool because you'd go in there and everyone was speaking Hindi.

01:11:45.000 Nobody, you know, all the like it was like a cafeteria place, and all the menus were all in another.

01:11:52.000 I had to point at things.

01:11:53.000 I didn't know what the fuck it was.

01:11:54.000 I'm like, give me one of those.

01:11:56.000 Did it taste great?

01:11:57.000 That was great.

01:11:57.000 Yeah.

01:11:58.000 Yeah.

01:11:58.000 But it was all vegetarian.

01:12:00.000 Like, there's vegetarian food that you can eat that's really good.

01:12:02.000 It doesn't, you don't have to pretend that it's a fucking burger.

01:12:06.000 It is a mental exercise, right?

01:12:09.000 It's like, no, no, no.

01:12:11.000 Love vegetables.

01:12:13.000 Can't eat meat.

01:12:14.000 Meat's evil.

01:12:15.000 I just happen to need all my vegetables to resemble meat.

01:12:19.000 Well, and then there's the problem of what actually happens when you have monocrop agriculture, because a lot of this stuff is coming from that.

01:12:26.000 And by the way, there's way more death per calorie of food that you get from monocrop agriculture, from growing just one crop in an area than you're ever going to get from meat.

01:12:40.000 Like there's thousands of animals, millions of animals have to get killed in order you to grow this food.

01:12:47.000 That's just a fact of life.

01:12:48.000 Well, you used the word convenience earlier, right?

01:12:51.000 Like convenience is like the killer of conservation because it's hard work, man.

01:12:57.000 It's not convenient.

01:12:58.000 Like these animals on the landscape that have been doing things for ever, like they just don't adjust to things.

01:13:09.000 You know, I was talking about like the prairie, how we're losing 2 million acres of prairie a year.

01:13:14.000 Well, there's this super badass little chicken, lesser prairie chicken, super charismatic little dude, dances, puts his tail fan up, big cheek flares, and game bird.

01:13:27.000 Used to be in the, possibly into the millions in that time that you described when Lewis and Clark were coming out onto the prairie.

01:13:37.000 It is a prairie bird to the point where it will not nest within, God, I want to say six acres of a vertical structure of any size.

01:13:54.000 Right.

01:13:54.000 Interesting.

01:13:55.000 So there are no trees on the prairie, no fence posts.

01:13:58.000 And this bird can't nest if it's around any sort of a vertical anything.

01:14:04.000 Right, because that's just the way its brain is wired.

01:14:07.000 Whoa.

01:14:08.000 And that shit is so inconvenient for people that it's just hit the endangered species list.

01:14:15.000 So is that because it has to be completely away from all predators that it has to know where everything is?

01:14:21.000 I think it's got to be something like that.

01:14:24.000 So it doesn't fly?

01:14:24.000 Yeah.

01:14:26.000 It does fly.

01:14:28.000 Does it fly like a chicken does, like short periods?

01:14:30.000 No.

01:14:30.000 Or does it fly like a turkey?

01:14:33.000 There's like a colloquial hunter name where they just call prairie birds chickens.

01:14:40.000 It's not a chicken at all, but it's like a little grouse species.

01:14:45.000 What does it look like?

01:14:46.000 See if you can pull it up.

01:14:47.000 Yeah.

01:14:49.000 But it's a great test case for the greater sage grouse.

01:14:53.000 What a cool looking little animal.

01:14:54.000 Oh.

01:14:56.000 So which one is it?

01:14:57.000 It's all the same.

01:14:58.000 We can't tell.

01:15:00.000 It's a smaller version of that.

01:15:02.000 That's the greater prairie chicken.

01:15:03.000 We're looking for the lesser prairie chicken.

01:15:06.000 So the greater prairie chicken, how big is that?

01:15:09.000 You're looking at like 16 to 18 ounces, I bet.

01:15:17.000 We got a size on that, sucker?

01:15:19.000 That's the big one.

01:15:21.000 So the little one's tiny.

01:15:23.000 But 95% of the native habitat left for that bird is on private ground at this point.

01:15:32.000 Oh, wow.

01:15:33.000 Yeah, and that private ground is used for grazing. 0.95

01:15:36.000 So 24 ounces to 42 ounces.

01:15:39.000 Oh, that's a big one.

01:15:40.000 Adults.

01:15:41.000 There you go.

01:15:42.000 That's the greater prairie chicken.

01:15:43.000 Oh.

01:15:48.000 What a cool-looking little bird.

01:15:48.000 Water.

01:15:50.000 Oh, charisma.

01:15:52.000 When I was in.

01:15:54.000 This guy's got ears.

01:15:55.000 Oh, whoa.

01:15:56.000 That's crazy looking.

01:15:57.000 Rabbit ears.

01:15:58.000 Yeah, how weird.

01:16:00.000 There's this awesome group of ranchers kind of in the Colorado, Oklahoma, New Mexico zone.

01:16:07.000 And they formed the Lesser Prairie Chicken Landowner Alliance.

01:16:11.000 And what they've been trying to do is get, because there's this huge conservation bill, biggest conservation package in the world called the Farm Bill.

01:16:21.000 And it has a lot of incentive, subsidy for farmers.

01:16:28.000 Isn't that thing amazing?

01:16:30.000 I've never seen a bird with ears like that.

01:16:32.000 Like other than like an owl kind of has them, but those are so pronounced.

01:16:38.000 How cool is that thing?

01:16:40.000 Is that his actual ears?

01:16:41.000 Or is that just like a weird feather structure?

01:16:43.000 Those are just feathers, yeah.

01:16:45.000 But where's his ears?

01:16:46.000 They're right behind his eyeballs.

01:16:46.000 Behind that?

01:16:49.000 So do you think that feather structure enhances hearing?

01:16:52.000 I mean, it has to, right?

01:16:53.000 No, that feather structure there is to enhance his sex life.

01:16:57.000 Oh, let the ladies know. 1.00

01:16:59.000 What's up?

01:17:00.000 Yeah.

01:17:01.000 What's up?

01:17:01.000 Look at my ears, baby.

01:17:03.000 I got it going on over here.

01:17:05.000 Do they wiggle them or something?

01:17:07.000 Oh, they dance.

01:17:10.000 Yeah.

01:17:10.000 Interesting.

01:17:11.000 And so it's almost kind of a grouse.

01:17:14.000 It is a grouse, yeah.

01:17:15.000 Ground nesting.

01:17:15.000 Yeah.

01:17:17.000 Yeah.

01:17:18.000 Yeah.

01:17:19.000 It's probably also one of those animals that feral cats fuck up.

01:17:22.000 Oh, for sure.

01:17:24.000 For sure.

01:17:25.000 Oh, wow.

01:17:26.000 Look how cool it is.

01:17:27.000 Wow.

01:17:27.000 So beautiful looking.

01:17:28.000 Look at his eyebrows.

01:17:31.000 Oh, yeah.

01:17:32.000 Let's go get it on.

01:17:33.000 Let's go, baby.

01:17:34.000 Yeah.

01:17:34.000 Look at that guy's cockbucking.

01:17:36.000 See that?

01:17:38.000 Wow.

01:17:40.000 What a cute little animal. 0.99

01:17:41.000 Yeah.

01:17:42.000 And this thing is tied to wide-ass open grass, wide-ass open prairie. 0.87

01:17:51.000 Right.

01:17:51.000 And so what this group, the Lesser Prairie Chicken Landowner Alliance, is doing is, you know, they're trying to Get folks in the Department of Ag to set up some funding specifically for grassland ecosystems that are used for grazing.

01:18:11.000 So it's going to be good for the rancher and good for the grouse in this case, too, right?

01:18:18.000 And that funding doesn't exist, but there's lots of programs to take like monocrop agriculture and turn it into CRP, which, you know, mixed grass, basically like rest that ground.

01:18:35.000 That was one of the programs that came out of the Dust Bowl era. 0.89

01:18:39.000 So instead of turning the ground over and all that dirt dries out and can get blown away, we lose that topsoil, plant it with grass and let it rest for like a three-year period, a five-year period.

01:18:54.000 Part of our like big ag incentive structures, balance out markets and all that fun stuff.

01:19:00.000 Yeah, monocrop agriculture is such a problem and industrial agricultural in general.

01:19:05.000 I had Will Harris on a couple of times from White Oaks Pastures.

01:19:09.000 Yeah.

01:19:10.000 And so his family farm was an industrial farm forever.

01:19:14.000 And then when he took it over, it was like a 20-year period of converting it to become regenerative.

01:19:23.000 And in that process, what's really, if you look outside in our lobby area, we have two jars of soil that were given to us by Will.

01:19:34.000 And one of them is from his neighbor's property.

01:19:36.000 That's an industrial farm.

01:19:38.000 And it's just like this weird, pale looking fucking, just, you know, it's all industrial fertilizer that they have to use and pesticides and all that shit.

01:19:47.000 And his is like this rich, dark soil that he's like super proud of, like what they've turned it and converted it over to just this natural process that's supposed to exist when animals graze, the undulates, they poop and they make manure and then the grasses grow and the animals eat the grass.

01:20:05.000 It's all that's how it's supposed to be.

01:20:08.000 But you know what else it is?

01:20:09.000 Inconvenient.

01:20:10.000 Yeah.

01:20:11.000 It's hard freaking work.

01:20:13.000 Oh, yeah.

01:20:13.000 Right?

01:20:14.000 It's hard work.

01:20:15.000 Well, fortunately for him, he's got a big name now, and so people seek out his food.

01:20:19.000 Yeah.

01:20:19.000 They want to buy from him.

01:20:21.000 But, you know, these and there's a lot of like bullshitting from supermarkets.

01:20:27.000 Like he had a real issue with Whole Foods lying.

01:20:29.000 And even after he had stopped selling them food, they were saying that it was coming from him.

01:20:35.000 Oh.

01:20:36.000 Yeah.

01:20:36.000 No.

01:20:37.000 Oh, yeah.

01:20:38.000 Oh, yeah.

01:20:40.000 Even the concept of like grass-fed, like for how long?

01:20:44.000 Like and how are you feeding them the grass?

01:20:45.000 Are they in a pen where you're feeding the grass?

01:20:47.000 Are they actually wandering around eating grass like they're supposed to?

01:20:51.000 There's a lot of that.

01:20:52.000 You know, like when you hear about like chickens, you know, they're free range.

01:20:56.000 Like what does that mean?

01:20:58.000 How much of a range?

01:20:59.000 I just had dinner with our buddy Jesse last night, and it was insane.

01:21:05.000 It was so good.

01:21:06.000 Dai-dewey. 0.83

01:21:07.000 That's an amazing restaurant here.

01:21:07.000 Oh, yeah.

01:21:09.000 Oh, but we were just, I was like, okay, well, tell me about this.

01:21:12.000 Tell me about, you know, Longhorn and what Wagoo means on his menu and all the pigs and the things that he's seeking out and like the breed of chicken that they have.

01:21:25.000 But like you were saying, like it's not just the breed.

01:21:29.000 What's that chicken doing?

01:21:30.000 Right.

01:21:32.000 And it's insane.

01:21:33.000 It is so freaking cool, man.

01:21:36.000 Like it's a heartwarming place to eat.

01:21:39.000 And it was just like, knock your freaking socks off.

01:21:42.000 Yeah, Jesse does it the right way.

01:21:43.000 And he's such a good chef.

01:21:44.000 He's so amazing.

01:21:46.000 When Steve and I went to Etoria down in South Texas to hunt, Jesse came and he cooked for us.

01:21:55.000 It was the most incredible experience because, and he cooked diver duck, which everybody says is gross.

01:22:00.000 He's like, no, no, no.

01:22:01.000 This is just, you just have to prepare it properly.

01:22:03.000 And it was some of the best duck I've ever had in my life.

01:22:06.000 He just has a marinating process that he does and then he grills it.

01:22:10.000 And it was insane.

01:22:11.000 It was so good, man.

01:22:13.000 It was so good.

01:22:15.000 Yeah.

01:22:15.000 I mean, they got nominated for James Beard on his turkey book, which is super awesome.

01:22:23.000 The people down there just, you know, his employees stay there.

01:22:28.000 They've been there for, like, everybody in that house has been there for a decade.

01:22:32.000 And they're just loving the stuff that they're doing and putting out and the stories that he can tell on that menu, right?

01:22:40.000 Like the bread is, he's like, yeah, I went and picked grapes out of the alley across the street, which doesn't sound all that great, but that's how he like started the yeast for the bread.

01:22:50.000 And that's been going for six years.

01:22:53.000 They got yogurt that came from a culture that's been going from for 200 years from one of their employees whose family's from India and they brought it over.

01:23:05.000 Whoa.

01:23:06.000 I mean, just I love that stuff.

01:23:06.000 Yeah.

01:23:08.000 Yeah.

01:23:09.000 I love that stuff, but it takes like dedication and commitment to know where your food comes from.

01:23:16.000 Right.

01:23:17.000 Yeah.

01:23:17.000 Right.

01:23:18.000 And I swear to God, when I go back to DC and I'm talking to people, like they are so disconnected from this stuff.

01:23:26.000 And I just often think, I'm like, God, if you guys just knew where the food comes from, what the land actually provides, we wouldn't be having these conversations.

01:23:37.000 No, I mean, human beings, for the most part, in urban areas are completely disconnected.

01:23:41.000 If you had a survey of how many people really understand where food comes from in your average city, I would imagine it's less than double digits.

01:23:52.000 Oh, yeah.

01:23:53.000 Probably a small percentage of people really understand.

01:23:57.000 Yeah, man.

01:23:58.000 I mean, the economics of food I've gotten really into recently because there is a real inability in certain areas of the country where the cost of getting anywhere near an actual grocery store is prohibitive to a lot of people.

01:24:20.000 And so, you know, they're just like, they're shit out of luck for a real food.

01:24:26.000 And then it's a cultural thing of Mom didn't know what real food was, dad didn't know what real food was, so I don't, and my kids won't.

01:24:36.000 Right.

01:24:37.000 You know, and then on the flip side of that, it's like food comes from DoorDash, food comes from, you know, people spending big bucks.

01:24:46.000 Yeah.

01:24:46.000 And they don't, and they're just as disconnected as the folks who don't have any bucks to spend.

01:24:52.000 Now, imagine a younger dryer's impact today.

01:24:55.000 Imagine some kind of impact like that today that forced people to actually find their own food.

01:25:01.000 You know, first of all, you'd be dealing with a small amount of survivors, right?

01:25:05.000 Let's imagine an apocalyptic scenario where 20% of the population survives, which has probably happened numerous times in human history.

01:25:16.000 If that happened today, how many people are equipped to find food?

01:25:22.000 How many people are equipped to live off the land?

01:25:24.000 It's such a small amount, man.

01:25:27.000 Such a small amount.

01:25:28.000 I also think about the anthropologists digging through that bone pile.

01:25:34.000 Oh, yeah.

01:25:34.000 And they're like, why is it that when we do cross sections of these bones, they're so much more unhealthy than the cross-sections of the bones from 4,000 years earlier.

01:25:47.000 Or late, you know?

01:25:47.000 I know.

01:25:48.000 Yeah.

01:25:49.000 Because I think that's convenience.

01:25:49.000 Yeah.

01:25:51.000 Convenience, man.

01:25:52.000 We love our convenience.

01:25:54.000 Convenience is killing us.

01:25:55.000 Yeah.

01:25:56.000 Yeah.

01:25:56.000 And I think there's a moment here we had all these different walks of life come together and be like, oh my God, public lands matter.

01:26:07.000 We had all these businesses come together and say public lands matter.

01:26:10.000 I got to tell you when I was chatting with our buddy Cam Haynes the other day, when I was about to be disconnected for a week, right?

01:26:20.000 And I've been like eating and breathing this fight, this stupid lawsuit that came out last year.

01:26:30.000 Then it's in the House.

01:26:33.000 Oh my God.

01:26:34.000 We get it pulled out of the House.

01:26:36.000 Then it goes to the Senate.

01:26:36.000 Thank God.

01:26:39.000 Mike Lee introduces the damn thing in the Senate, sneaks his language in, blindsides everybody.

01:26:47.000 And I got to get on a plane to go to the Arctic.

01:26:51.000 And there's this little like bellwether moment where I look at, I make like a last Instagram post, last thing I can do.

01:27:03.000 And I see Cameron Haynes is like, you guys, you got to get off your asses and call your senators.

01:27:12.000 They're selling our public land.

01:27:13.000 And the same day, Josh Smith from Montana Knife Company did it too.

01:27:22.000 And I bring those two guys up as examples because they were also like on the mega train, right?

01:27:31.000 They were like pro-Trump in through the election.

01:27:35.000 They're representing the right side of the political spectrum.

01:27:39.000 And when that moment happened, I did draw like a little breath of relief right there.

01:27:47.000 I was like, okay.

01:27:48.000 And people that aren't afraid to criticize aspects of the big, beautiful bill.

01:27:52.000 Right.

01:27:52.000 Yeah.

01:27:53.000 And they're not afraid to say, yeah, we voted for this guy, but this part of the pie sucks.

01:27:53.000 Yeah.

01:28:02.000 It's super important to us that this gets pulled out of here and we're going to go to the mat for it.

01:28:10.000 And I'm like, that is, that is the thing, right?

01:28:15.000 We have people who aren't so self-conscious that they're like, oh, God, I said this thing a month ago.

01:28:24.000 I can't come out and say what I really think right now because that would kind of contradict what I said a month ago.

01:28:30.000 Right.

01:28:31.000 You know, and that gave me like really, really made me feel good.

01:28:36.000 I'm like, okay, things are starting to go our way now because all the other people who were afraid to say the same thing were like, oh, thank God some other people with a big microphone came out and said it.

01:28:52.000 So now I feel emboldened to stand up publicly for what I believe in.

01:28:59.000 Yeah, it's such a terrible thing to be so trapped in the ideology of your party that you can't stand up for what's right.

01:29:05.000 That's gross.

01:29:06.000 Yeah, man.

01:29:07.000 It's so un-American. 0.91

01:29:08.000 And it's being promoted, though, too.

01:29:10.000 Like, one of the things I feel when I go back to D.C. is there's a lot of people spending time on making sure, not that America is better, but that that system persists.

01:29:23.000 So the next generation of short, short little boat shoe, no sock wearing people can have jobs. 0.99

01:29:32.000 Yeah, those boat shoes.

01:29:34.000 Yeah.

01:29:35.000 It's gross.

01:29:36.000 It's really gross, and it's prevalent.

01:29:39.000 It's been around for a long time, this weird system that we have.

01:29:45.000 It's not effective.

01:29:46.000 It's not good.

01:29:47.000 It's not good for anybody.

01:29:48.000 And it's all being fed by lobbyists and special interest groups.

01:29:52.000 And they're all just, they want to keep it going.

01:29:54.000 They want to keep the griff going.

01:29:57.000 But there's palpable frustration out there.

01:30:01.000 Like, I feel it every day.

01:30:02.000 A long time ago, you told me, you're like, dude, don't read the comment section.

01:30:09.000 And you're 1,000% right.

01:30:11.000 I can't say how right you are, but during this time of like, why aren't people clicking into this?

01:30:20.000 I was getting real depressed, like shaken pissed, tears at times over feeling so underrepresented.

01:30:31.000 And then when we started gaining momentum, I was like, okay, what the hell else can I do?

01:30:36.000 I'm calling my senators.

01:30:38.000 I'm calling my representatives.

01:30:42.000 I'm establishing contacts with their staff.

01:30:46.000 I'm talking to them about how important this is.

01:30:48.000 I'm asking them what else we can do.

01:30:52.000 Trying to build these bridges for this goal of protecting my public lands that I love.

01:31:00.000 We're working with all these nonprofit groups, are coming together, even groups that traditionally don't focus on public land access issues, you know, like your Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, who has done a bunch of stuff for access, but you know, they have an elk on their logo.

01:31:14.000 They're the elk people.

01:31:16.000 And then Pheasants and Quail Forever, they're the Pheasants and Quail people.

01:31:18.000 National Wild Turkey Federation, they're the turkey people.

01:31:21.000 But they started being like, uh-oh, this is real serious.

01:31:25.000 And then we started getting all these people in the same room together, sharing information instead of being competitive.

01:31:33.000 And then businesses started coming out and saying, well, what can we do?

01:31:40.000 Little breweries down in Arizona.

01:31:44.000 This guy Ren House Brewing called me and he's like, hey, what can I do?

01:31:50.000 I have a brewery.

01:31:51.000 What can I do?

01:31:53.000 And we came out with a beer that has a QR code on the label and it's just called rep because at that time the fight was in the house.

01:32:01.000 So call your representative and you hit the QR code.

01:32:05.000 You put in your zip code and it connects you with your representative.

01:32:09.000 Right?

01:32:10.000 It's like crush beers and crush the phone lines, whatever tag you want, up to, I'm on a steering committee that has REI, Patagonia, Rivian, all like big, big companies, right?

01:32:27.000 That are like, we want to put some muscle behind this.

01:32:31.000 We want public lands to stay public.

01:32:33.000 Then we launched a Hunt Brands for Public Lands Coalition and had a huge name.

01:32:42.000 Sig Sauer is on there, right?

01:32:45.000 They have military contracts and they had the guts to stand up and be like, we don't want to see public lands get sold off.

01:32:52.000 That's awesome.

01:32:53.000 Weather be another firearms manufacturer, you know, first light meteor, obviously.

01:32:53.000 Yep.

01:32:59.000 But we started like building all these bridges and unifying groups and people and businesses around this common cause.

01:33:13.000 And it's that public persistence, that we the people part that folks kind of tend to forget, that is literally saving public lands about like being out there public and loud.

01:33:30.000 And it's working, but we need to take it to the next step, right?

01:33:38.000 And maintain the momentum and stay unified.

01:33:43.000 And the thing that was really interesting, right, is like we're up to the date, up to the absolute second that language is polled.

01:33:58.000 Before it's officially polled, Mike Lee's team has his statement out on I listened.

01:34:06.000 I still want to sell public land, but I listened to everybody.

01:34:11.000 So I'm not going to do it right now, is really what it says.

01:34:15.000 And he's completely fabricating this story.

01:34:19.000 He was told, like, this is going to get pulled.

01:34:22.000 So you can do it now and save some face, or we can pull it, and you're going to look like a loser, right?

01:34:31.000 And unfortunately, he got the option to, like, fight again another day, which is brutal.

01:34:38.000 But I get that information and I get to announce it to this awesome group of people at this off-road rally trash pickup deal that I'm out at called the Gambler 500, which is super cool.

01:34:55.000 And then I put that online.

01:34:59.000 And I'm like, hey, thank you to the Democrats and thank you to the Republicans and thank you for all the voices that came out and the businesses and all this stuff.

01:35:10.000 And then I was just like, set my clock as to when people were going to just start tearing each other apart.

01:35:16.000 And it fucking happened, right?

01:35:19.000 And it's like, you guys voted for this.

01:35:23.000 You were getting exactly what you deserve.

01:35:25.000 Right, right, right.

01:35:26.000 I did see a lot of that.

01:35:27.000 You know what I mean?

01:35:28.000 Like, no, we didn't, stupid.

01:35:28.000 Yeah, I did see a lot of that.

01:35:30.000 No, we voted because we felt like the country was moving in a terrible direction.

01:35:35.000 It doesn't mean that they can't also move in a terrible direction once you get them in.

01:35:39.000 The important thing is people stood up, people like you, luckily, that are very invested in this and used the considerable resources you have access to and got a lot of other people involved like Cam and Josh Smith and everybody else.

01:35:54.000 And I jumped in too.

01:35:57.000 We're just lucky that a lot of people care and recognize that this is a slippery slope and that if they got through with this and they did this, this is just one step.

01:36:07.000 And if you let them sell one acre, that's why just not one acre was the best motto.

01:36:12.000 It really was.

01:36:13.000 Not one acre was the best motto.

01:36:15.000 You can't.

01:36:16.000 It's not yours. 0.78

01:36:17.000 It's ours.

01:36:18.000 It's everyone's.

01:36:19.000 And if you sell it, you should make zero profit.

01:36:22.000 It should go, literally, if you did sell it, it should have to go to every fucking person that lives on the planet or in this country, rather.

01:36:29.000 Yeah.

01:36:30.000 And we don't want it.

01:36:31.000 We don't want that money.

01:36:33.000 Keep it the way it is.

01:36:34.000 Well, the value of this stuff only goes up.

01:36:36.000 Not only that.

01:36:37.000 Again, we're $36 fucking trillion dollars in debt.

01:36:40.000 You're not even going to put it.

01:36:41.000 If you sold all the public land, all of it that we have, it wouldn't put a dent in it.

01:36:46.000 No, it wouldn't.

01:36:47.000 You could strip all the timber.

01:36:48.000 Yeah.

01:36:49.000 Sell the land.

01:36:50.000 Everything.

01:36:50.000 Minerals, everything.

01:36:51.000 Not going to put a dent in it.

01:36:53.000 No, it's not.

01:36:54.000 So we got to find a better way.

01:36:55.000 And you know what?

01:36:56.000 It's not going to be convenient.

01:36:57.000 No.

01:36:57.000 It's going to be hard.

01:36:59.000 And that's like the thing that I keep coming back to.

01:37:02.000 I'm like, all they're doing is being like, oh, see, we did something.

01:37:08.000 They're not doing the hard work, right?

01:37:10.000 And this particular thing would divest the American people of, in my mind, and we started doing it as a slogan for backcountry hunters and anglers, is like public land freedom.

01:37:26.000 Like you are divesting the American people of the ability to be free.

01:37:31.000 Like these places represent like a lot of goofballs, man.

01:37:36.000 Unstructured fun.

01:37:38.000 And I feel like there's a lot of people in the lawmaking side of things that get very nervous about American people out there having unstructured fun.

01:37:47.000 Is that really what it is?

01:37:47.000 Really?

01:37:48.000 They're like, what's going on out there on that BLM land?

01:37:50.000 There's somebody riding a motorcycle and there's somebody shooting a gun and there's somebody fly fishing and there's somebody bird watching.

01:37:57.000 There's a family camping.

01:37:59.000 Can't have that.

01:38:00.000 Do you really think that's it?

01:38:02.000 Do you really think it's like they don't want unstructured fun?

01:38:05.000 I'm coming around to that thought a lot, man.

01:38:09.000 A lot.

01:38:10.000 Right?

01:38:11.000 They're like, why?

01:38:12.000 There's no kiosk, right?

01:38:16.000 Nobody's out there charging for your use of America's public lands.

01:38:21.000 You're not signing a liability waiver.

01:38:24.000 Oh, my God.

01:38:26.000 And once you're out there, you just kind of make up whatever it is you want to do that day.

01:38:35.000 That's freedom, buddy.

01:38:36.000 Right?

01:38:37.000 And I think people are fucking nervous about that.

01:38:39.000 That's a weird perspective.

01:38:41.000 It is.

01:38:42.000 Yeah, I don't know if I agree with that.

01:38:43.000 I just think they look at it as an opportunity to cash in.

01:38:47.000 I think they look at it as an opportunity.

01:38:49.000 Like, we have all this land.

01:38:50.000 It's public.

01:38:50.000 Let's sell some of it.

01:38:52.000 I think it's just like incredibly short-sighted.

01:38:54.000 I think they think in terms of, literally in terms of terms where they're elected.

01:39:00.000 And it's not sell some of it, right?

01:39:02.000 They're like, we're going to maybe hold on to the national parks, but there's another play there where we're going to turn those over to the states or privatize them completely.

01:39:15.000 Get full control of, like I said, like Colorado River, right?

01:39:20.000 Like we're going to control the pipes for the watersheds.

01:39:24.000 Yeah, I've heard that language before that water's not a right.

01:39:28.000 Yeah.

01:39:32.000 People are gross, man.

01:39:34.000 If you let them be.

01:39:35.000 If you let them be, they'll be gross.

01:39:38.000 And yeah, absolutely.

01:39:39.000 And some of these people want it purely for the fact that they can't have it.

01:39:43.000 Right?

01:39:44.000 And it drives them insane.

01:39:45.000 There's definitely that.

01:39:46.000 There's definitely that.

01:39:46.000 Yeah.

01:39:47.000 There's a lot of short-sightedness.

01:39:50.000 A lot of people could use a mushroom trip.

01:39:54.000 It's just a lot of people that are just, you're missing so much of what this life is because you're so concentrated on your election cycle.

01:40:02.000 You're so concentrated on making more money.

01:40:05.000 You're so concentrated on things that when you're 90 and you're in your deathbed, it ain't going to mean shit, man.

01:40:11.000 It's not going to mean a damn thing.

01:40:13.000 No.

01:40:14.000 You could have been having fun and enjoying life with your neighbors.

01:40:14.000 No.

01:40:18.000 Yeah.

01:40:19.000 Like, you can't keep it.

01:40:21.000 You're going to die.

01:40:23.000 You can't take it with you.

01:40:24.000 You're going to die.

01:40:25.000 And they don't see that while they're on the hunt, while they're in the middle of this process of trying to accumulate zeros in their bank account.

01:40:33.000 Got a little endorphin high.

01:40:33.000 Yeah.

01:40:35.000 Saw another zero hit.

01:40:36.000 That's all they want.

01:40:37.000 And they're competing with other people that are doing the exact same thing.

01:40:39.000 So they're in their little short-sighted echo chambers.

01:40:43.000 Yep.

01:40:43.000 Yeah.

01:40:44.000 But I hope to God people learned.

01:40:44.000 Keep that.

01:40:47.000 Right.

01:40:48.000 Like there's a lot happening in between elections.

01:40:53.000 And you got to know if you weighed in during this, you made a difference.

01:41:00.000 Like everybody who jumped in and wrote to their representatives and senators and told their buddies about this and asked businesses, why aren't you on that list?

01:41:11.000 Yeah, you can actually make a difference in this country.

01:41:13.000 Absolutely.

01:41:14.000 And it's not just at the election hash marks.

01:41:19.000 Like if people didn't hold our elected accountable, they would have been like, they just want to get this stuff passed.

01:41:28.000 They're like, path least resistance.

01:41:31.000 There's some really good ass kickers out there on the Democrat and Republican side of things, for sure.

01:41:38.000 But we need to lift those people up in order to get the rest of the coasters involved. 0.99

01:41:45.000 Yeah, and we need to also let people know that this is an issue going forward now that we know.

01:41:52.000 This is an issue that can affect whether or not you get elected.

01:41:56.000 You need to know that.

01:41:57.000 Like, we're going to be on you.

01:41:59.000 You can't do this.

01:42:01.000 Exactly.

01:42:02.000 We're going to be consistent and we're going to be on your ass.

01:42:04.000 And now that this has happened and we've had some success and it worked, now people know it'll work.

01:42:10.000 And so now all the Randy Newbergs and all the people that were really enthusiastic about this, that really did their job, they're getting more support now.

01:42:19.000 And it's going to build.

01:42:21.000 And then we'll be much more aware of whether one of these things is trying to get snuck through in the future.

01:42:27.000 Absolutely.

01:42:28.000 Absolutely.

01:42:28.000 I would say the early folks, right?

01:42:33.000 Like Randy, I feel like we were kicking ass at Meat Eater.

01:42:38.000 Katie Hill at Outdoor Life.

01:42:42.000 Andrew McKean, Outdoor Life.

01:42:46.000 Travis Hall, Field and Stream, like those people were on it.

01:42:52.000 And I think all those people have a significant following on social media.

01:42:56.000 And they have a lot to lose, too, man.

01:42:58.000 Yeah.

01:42:58.000 Oh, yeah.

01:42:59.000 Yep.

01:43:02.000 National Wildlife Federation, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers were talking about this way early.

01:43:09.000 And then a lot of other orgs jumped in.

01:43:12.000 And some early, Pheasants Forever, Quail Forever, they were awesome.

01:43:18.000 I just gotta mention them because they're farm bill oriented hook and bullet organizations.

01:43:28.000 They do an amazing job, but that's largely private side of the fence.

01:43:33.000 And they came out and started talking to their membership about this early.

01:43:39.000 And you kind of get punched in the face.

01:43:42.000 I got to be honest.

01:43:43.000 Like, we took a lot of shit on the meat-eater side of things.

01:43:47.000 Ronella took a ton of shit. 1.00

01:43:48.000 How so?

01:43:49.000 Just people being like, well, one, they're like, Steve, aren't you a Trumper?

01:43:56.000 You can't also support public lands because that's going Against Trump.

01:44:01.000 This is just people in the comments, right?

01:44:03.000 Oh, yeah.

01:44:04.000 Again.

01:44:04.000 Yeah.

01:44:05.000 Who are those people?

01:44:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:44:07.000 Way too much time.

01:44:08.000 Yeah, don't read them.

01:44:10.000 You're dealing with such a small population of morons.

01:44:14.000 The problem with comments is, especially negative comments, it's such a small population, and almost, all of them are fucking losers.

01:44:23.000 I got sucked in, though, because I'm like, I don't know.

01:44:27.000 I was like, I was so desperate to make an impact, right?

01:44:30.000 At the end, I'm like, I'm feeling like I've pulled every freaking lever that I can.

01:44:34.000 I'm asking the experts.

01:44:36.000 I'm like, could we get, and this is a screwed up piece of information.

01:44:39.000 I was like, okay, I want to do a Freedom of Information Act request, sue for information for all the senators' offices and find out how many people called on behalf of public lands and how many people called to sell them off.

01:44:57.000 And I want that information to be public.

01:45:00.000 Well, those offices, they don't have to give over that information, I found out.

01:45:06.000 So like, where the hell's the accountability on that?

01:45:09.000 Right.

01:45:10.000 But anyway, I'm going nuts trying to figure out what other levers I could pull.

01:45:10.000 Yeah.

01:45:15.000 And I would just sit there and be like, okay, I'm going to find one person on the feed and just understand their side of things and see if I can pull them over to my side of things.

01:45:28.000 And maybe that butterfly wing effect will do some sort of good.

01:45:31.000 You're not those people.

01:45:32.000 Yeah, you voted for this.

01:45:34.000 Those people are just trying to win.

01:45:36.000 They're just trying to like get you.

01:45:39.000 And people that, for whatever reason, thought Kamala Harris would be a good president.

01:45:43.000 And then there's also people that I don't even know if they're real humans.

01:45:47.000 I think there's a lot of this stuff that we have to understand about social media is coordinated bot farms.

01:45:53.000 And so anytime you have a hot-button topic that could, you know, maybe get a bill rejected or get a bill passed, it's not organic, the comments.

01:46:05.000 There's some organic comments.

01:46:06.000 Some of these people that are negative, you voted for this, they're just a real fucking loser who doesn't like people that have public profiles, doesn't like people that are successful, doesn't like people, and they just want to find some way to call you out.

01:46:18.000 There's a lot of that.

01:46:19.000 But then there's a lot of coordinated artificial interaction.

01:46:26.000 And we've highlighted that and we've been on that for quite a while because we found out through this one former FBI guy that 80%, his estimation was 80% of Twitter is bots.

01:46:41.000 Yeah, 80%.

01:46:43.000 You know, people are having, their whole life is talking to bots then, if that's the case.

01:46:48.000 Oh, it is the case.

01:46:50.000 I know it's the case.

01:46:51.000 I don't know if it's 80%, but I do know that it's an enormous number because I don't interact.

01:46:58.000 And I'm now, I've since separated myself so far that I'm kind of not even on social media anymore.

01:47:06.000 I might check it in the morning.

01:47:07.000 I check Twitter in the morning to see whatever he's mad at.

01:47:10.000 And then I usually feel bad after I check it.

01:47:12.000 I'm like, why am I even looking at this?

01:47:14.000 Jesus Christ.

01:47:14.000 And I just get off.

01:47:16.000 And when you do that, you feel better.

01:47:20.000 You just feel healthier.

01:47:22.000 You feel better.

01:47:23.000 But when I do check and there's any sort of a hot button issue, I'll look at someone as saying something outrageous and I'll click on their profile.

01:47:30.000 And then I'm like, it's like a bunch of letters and a few numbers.

01:47:34.000 And then I look at their profile.

01:47:35.000 I'm like, oh, you're not even a real fucking person.

01:47:37.000 And then you see, oh, this is like half of the people in this aren't real people.

01:47:42.000 And there's no laws.

01:47:44.000 Like, there's no, I'm, first of all, I'm going to be real clear.

01:47:47.000 I'm against a law where it says you have to post under your name, your social security number has to be registered to this account so we know you're a real human being.

01:48:00.000 The reason why I'm opposed to that is because I think whistleblowers are essential because I think corruption is real.

01:48:06.000 And I think if you hold someone accountable for everything they post, man, you're going down a dark road.

01:48:11.000 You're going down a dark road where you could possibly get people fired for posts that, you know, like England is out of control right now.

01:48:22.000 Like, I don't know if you know this, but England, I think it was somewhere in the neighborhood.

01:48:27.000 How many people got arrested for social media posts in England this year?

01:48:31.000 We've looked this up before.

01:48:32.000 I forget the number.

01:48:34.000 It's in the thousands.

01:48:35.000 Arrested for saying immigration is a real problem.

01:48:38.000 We've got to stop these grooming gangs.

01:48:40.000 We've got to stop these Muslims from illegally immigrating into England. 1.00

01:48:46.000 Arrested.

01:48:47.000 Go to jail. 0.51

01:48:48.000 Like, for real.

01:48:50.000 That's insane.

01:48:50.000 People do time.

01:48:51.000 They're doing time.

01:48:53.000 Like, no bullshit, real time for saying things.

01:48:57.000 Like, I could kill for a cheeseburger.

01:48:58.000 No, I always said I killed.

01:49:00.000 Not like that.

01:49:01.000 Not like that.

01:49:01.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:49:02.000 But it's mostly about policy issues.

01:49:05.000 And what they're trying to do is make sure that everyone stays in line.

01:49:10.000 And so they're doing this by scaring people away from being critical of the government.

01:49:17.000 And the way to start it is to attack people that say anything bad about immigration, attack people that say anything bad about the government.

01:49:24.000 In fact, they're just doing this in Brazil right now.

01:49:27.000 They just passed this huge fucking law that you can get removed from social media for anything that's critical of the government.

01:49:38.000 Anything that's critical of Lula, who's the president of Brazil right now, you get removed from social media.

01:49:44.000 Like you can't be critical.

01:49:46.000 Like they don't have freedom of speech anymore.

01:49:48.000 And this is the slippery road.

01:49:50.000 This is a slippery slope that we were going down with the last administration, what they had done during the pandemic.

01:49:56.000 It's scary stuff, man, and people have to be aware of it.

01:50:00.000 Well, I think there's a version of that, too, with what we were talking about on like the hard party politics people, right?

01:50:06.000 Where it's like the social backlash of being a critical thinker is so much that it then creates a non-thinker or you just totally leave that zone.

01:50:21.000 You don't pay attention anymore.

01:50:22.000 You're not going to talk about it.

01:50:23.000 Yep.

01:50:24.000 Yeah.

01:50:24.000 It's you self-censor.

01:50:28.000 You self-censor out of survival.

01:50:30.000 You know, you're really like, this is too dangerous.

01:50:32.000 I'm not going to say anything.

01:50:33.000 And that's how they get things passed because then you don't have any criticism.

01:50:36.000 And then you don't have any people that are opposing you.

01:50:42.000 It's very scary because, again, a lot of this stuff that you're seeing that's causing people to self-center is not real self-censor, is not real human beings.

01:50:52.000 It's bots.

01:50:53.000 And that's my fear is that when you finally get that person to be like, all right, you know what?

01:51:03.000 I'm going to leave this part of it behind and step out to advocate for what I believe in.

01:51:11.000 And the first response they get is, you voted for this.

01:51:15.000 Fuck you.

01:51:15.000 You're getting what you deserve.

01:51:17.000 Yeah.

01:51:17.000 Police make 30 arrests a day for offensive online messages.

01:51:21.000 Oh, God.

01:51:22.000 Nuts.

01:51:23.000 So officers from 37 forces made 12,183 arrests in 2023, the equivalent of about 33 per day.

01:51:34.000 Marks an almost 58% rise in arrests since before the pandemic.

01:51:38.000 In 2019, but still, like 2019, 7,000 detentions for online shit.

01:51:45.000 So what we have in America is incredibly unique in that regard.

01:51:50.000 And other countries are setting a standard, and it's a dangerous fucking standard.

01:51:54.000 And we have to really make sure that that doesn't happen here.

01:51:57.000 And we also have to make sure, I wish there was a way where you could identify bots.

01:52:04.000 And Elon tried to find this out when he bought Twitter.

01:52:07.000 So when he purchased Twitter, they told him that it was less than 5%.

01:52:12.000 And he's like, well, how did you figure that out?

01:52:14.000 And well, they only figured it out.

01:52:16.000 It's not a real number.

01:52:16.000 It's not real.

01:52:17.000 But they just took a random cross-section of 100 users and found 5% of those people were clearly bots.

01:52:24.000 That doesn't mean anything.

01:52:25.000 Job's done.

01:52:26.000 Yeah.

01:52:27.000 But you could also do that.

01:52:29.000 You could take a random section of users that interact with very non-controversial subjects and find a small number of bots.

01:52:35.000 Like, let's say you find a bird-watching group of people on Instagram or on Twitter.

01:52:40.000 Like, what are the odds that those people are going to be bots?

01:52:43.000 Very small, right?

01:52:44.000 There's no reason.

01:52:45.000 There's no benefit financially or otherwise, politically.

01:52:48.000 Big bird seed.

01:52:49.000 You know, exactly.

01:52:49.000 Yeah.

01:52:52.000 Like, so if you go after bird, I use birdwatchers because I see them all the time.

01:52:57.000 You know, that's like the purest form of just this is what they're into.

01:53:01.000 Great group.

01:53:02.000 Yeah.

01:53:02.000 Great group of people, but there's no financial incentive to support or deny birdwatching.

01:53:09.000 So if you go to the birdwatcher group on Twitter, yeah, it's probably 5% bots because they're fucking everywhere.

01:53:15.000 But if you, I guarantee if you go to abortion or if you go to immigration or if you go to anything that's a hot button control, ICE RAIDS, whatever it is, anything.

01:53:25.000 Anything.

01:53:26.000 Any hot-button controversial subject, there's a shit ton of them, man.

01:53:32.000 And it's kind of creepy because who is paying for it?

01:53:37.000 Who's paying for it?

01:53:38.000 And why do we don't, how come we don't have any laws to stop that from happening?

01:53:42.000 Because it's not real.

01:53:44.000 You're getting this artificial sense of what the general public wants because they've monetized it and they've figured out a way to artificially inflate these numbers.

01:53:55.000 Yeah, and I think it gives this illusion of this consensus amongst people.

01:54:01.000 And they can do that even with ridiculous conclusions.

01:54:06.000 And I think consensus, though, is so dangerous to any political party, right?

01:54:11.000 Like what we just saw, there was an agenda and everybody had to stand up and say something because of one freaking person who wanted to make this happen.

01:54:22.000 Right.

01:54:24.000 And I guarantee you, I guarantee you that what they're thinking about right now is, holy shit, how do we break up this consensus?

01:54:34.000 Like, what do we need to do?

01:54:36.000 We can't have birdwatchers agreeing with off-road users and bow hunters.

01:54:43.000 We can't win that.

01:54:44.000 We need them to be only birdwatchers, only bow hunters, only off-road users.

01:54:50.000 Well, what we need to do is be apolitical.

01:54:53.000 And I think we were with this, which is beautiful.

01:54:56.000 So the Democrats, the Republicans, and the people like me that are fucking politically homeless, they all came together on this and said, no, this is stupid.

01:55:04.000 And all these people, oh, you voted for this.

01:55:06.000 Fuck you.

01:55:09.000 Nobody voted for that.

01:55:10.000 Fuck you.

01:55:11.000 Like, this is one guy.

01:55:12.000 And if history, if that didn't work, if we didn't have an impact, and if nobody stepped up and people like you weren't so steadfast, that would be in the history books.

01:55:23.000 That Mike Lee guy would be the guy that you see, you know, your kids see in 40, 50 years, and they read the history books.

01:55:28.000 They go, oh, that guy?

01:55:29.000 That guy did this?

01:55:30.000 Yeah, he'd have a proud statue inside a giant strip mall in something that used to be public land.

01:55:36.000 They'd be like, why is that here?

01:55:38.000 Probably wouldn't.

01:55:39.000 Because we gave up.

01:55:40.000 Yeah, probably.

01:55:40.000 That's what happened.

01:55:41.000 Well, it depends on who's writing the history books, right?

01:55:43.000 It could be that he would be a hero.

01:55:45.000 He turned it up.

01:55:46.000 They generated $200 extra billion dollars that did nothing.

01:55:51.000 Did nothing for this.

01:55:53.000 I mean, this big, beautiful bill, doesn't it raise the debt by $3 trillion?

01:55:57.000 I think that's what they came down to.

01:55:59.000 It started at $4 and now it's at like $3.3 trillion.

01:56:03.000 Yeah.

01:56:05.000 And there's so much to it, too.

01:56:07.000 Like I said, this is my own personal dumpster fire.

01:56:10.000 What Trump wants is growth.

01:56:12.000 He wants economic growth, and he thinks he can get it out of this, and that's the overall net benefit.

01:56:17.000 Oh, and there's some bending over backwards, right?

01:56:20.000 Like that Arctic trip that we were talking about.

01:56:23.000 We went up to the 1002 area on the Arctic plane.

01:56:27.000 That ceiling increased by $5 trillion.

01:56:29.000 Did that just happen, Jamie?

01:56:32.000 That did pass this afternoon when we started, yeah.

01:56:35.000 $150 billion in additional border security.

01:56:35.000 Okay.

01:56:38.000 Well, we probably need that.

01:56:40.000 $154 billion in additional defense spending.

01:56:46.000 You got to feed the demons.

01:56:47.000 The Golden Dome thing, which is not.

01:56:51.000 What's the Golden Dome?

01:56:52.000 That's space-based Golden Dome missile defense system.

01:56:55.000 Yeah.

01:56:56.000 Trump was enamored with Israel's missile defense system and wanted one.

01:57:02.000 And most of the experts were like, that doesn't really work with our land mass.

01:57:07.000 Oh, boy.

01:57:09.000 There's also hypersonic missiles.

01:57:11.000 There's a lot of shit it doesn't work with.

01:57:15.000 there's a line item in here for, I think it's a few billion bucks for our next big birthday, America's next big birthday, which I always think of affordable housing when I think of it.

01:57:30.000 I bet the folks like having their own little individual parties and might think it's okay to throw that couple hundred million at an issue versus fireworks and parades.

01:57:44.000 You know, I don't know.

01:57:45.000 Maybe, maybe.

01:57:48.000 But yeah, man, we got it.

01:57:50.000 We have got to stay unified on these things.

01:57:55.000 Stay unified and avoid the comments, folks.

01:57:57.000 And don't be scared.

01:57:58.000 Don't be scared to speak out against something that you know is wrong.

01:58:01.000 And you jackasses, if you want something real bad, like I want public lands, public waters, public wildlife for the people real bad.

01:58:13.000 I don't, when that shit talker converts and is like, yeah, public lands are sweet, I called my senator.

01:58:20.000 I don't say, fuck you.

01:58:22.000 Right.

01:58:23.000 Shit talker.

01:58:24.000 I say, thank you, dude.

01:58:25.000 Really appreciate it.

01:58:26.000 Yeah.

01:58:26.000 Well, most of those shit talkers don't have good friends.

01:58:29.000 The people that actually are actual human beings that are losers.

01:58:32.000 The reason why they're losers is because they're in a bad spot.

01:58:36.000 Okay.

01:58:37.000 And any one of us could have been that person.

01:58:39.000 Any one of us could have been that person that's surrounded by bad people.

01:58:43.000 They have a bad job.

01:58:44.000 They got a bad relationship.

01:58:46.000 They live in a bad area.

01:58:47.000 There's not a whole lot of hope.

01:58:50.000 There's not a whole lot of happiness.

01:58:51.000 And so you try to tear down everything around you.

01:58:53.000 Yeah, you put your petty shit over the top of the real shit.

01:58:57.000 Yeah, but my perspective is, look, I can't fix everybody, so I can't help you.

01:59:03.000 But I don't want to interact with you.

01:59:05.000 So I'm not going to, I'm not, I don't have the time.

01:59:07.000 I don't have the resources.

01:59:09.000 It's impossible.

01:59:10.000 And I don't like it.

01:59:11.000 I don't like arguing with people, so I don't want to do it.

01:59:14.000 If you talk to people one-on-one, most people are pretty fucking reasonable.

01:59:18.000 Pretty amazing.

01:59:19.000 But when they're just shouting out into the void like that, guess what?

01:59:23.000 You don't have to read it.

01:59:24.000 You don't have to listen.

01:59:25.000 You don't have to interact.

01:59:27.000 It's fucking bad for you.

01:59:28.000 It's bad for your brain.

01:59:30.000 Everybody that I know that's on social media all the time is super unhealthy.

01:59:34.000 Every one of them.

01:59:34.000 Yeah.

01:59:35.000 For good reason.

01:59:36.000 It's a trash pit.

01:59:38.000 It worked really.

01:59:40.000 It worked really well in this case because it allowed that community to build fast and be reactive.

01:59:48.000 But you have to curate your community online the same way you curate your community in the real world.

01:59:54.000 And this is a part of not reading the comments because the comments is the whole world or the people that are interacting.

02:00:00.000 It's not really the whole world, but again, it's just, it's not worth it.

02:00:05.000 It's just not worth it.

02:00:06.000 It's not worth going in there.

02:00:08.000 And people, if you want to win, like identify that freaking goal and think, okay, what's going to help me achieve that goal?

02:00:19.000 It's not putting your petty shit above the goal.

02:00:23.000 Right.

02:00:24.000 Right.

02:00:25.000 You bury that stuff deep down inside and you say, great, thank you.

02:00:29.000 Thanks for hopping on board.

02:00:31.000 Please tell your friends.

02:00:32.000 We're going to get to this goal together.

02:00:33.000 That's awesome.

02:00:34.000 I think that's best done on a group basis.

02:00:37.000 Like just make a post.

02:00:38.000 Thank you to everybody that did it, but don't interact with individuals.

02:00:42.000 It's just not worth it.

02:00:43.000 The people that I know that do it, they all get fucked up.

02:00:46.000 Because it's just like, it just takes one comment that gets under your skin that carries you around while you're hanging out.

02:00:53.000 You're at your kid's baseball game and you think that cocksucker on Twitter. 1.00

02:00:56.000 There's a lot of people out there that are doing that, man.

02:00:59.000 You're watching your kid hit a home run.

02:01:01.000 You're not even happy.

02:01:02.000 You're mad about some fucking random dude who you don't even know if it's a real person.

02:01:06.000 No, it's the truth.

02:01:07.000 I told that group I was with up in the Arctic, man, I'm like, I read them because I want to understand the argument and see if that's really the argument.

02:01:20.000 Like, is this really where people are coming from or is it just an asshole? 0.83

02:01:25.000 There's mostly just an asshole, and even their argument probably sucks, but also a lot of it's artificial.

02:01:31.000 You got to think about how much money is involved in selling off this public land and how much of an interest do people have in pushing a narrative that would say that selling this public land is a good thing.

02:01:42.000 Yeah.

02:01:43.000 You know, there's money involved in this.

02:01:45.000 Whenever there's money involved in this, you can pay for it.

02:01:48.000 There's services where you can start a campaign.

02:01:52.000 Like, it's not real.

02:01:54.000 There's services where if you want to push a narrative, you can use their service and they will incorporate this bot farm and they will push it towards whatever you want to do.

02:02:07.000 And it's legal.

02:02:08.000 That's what's fucked.

02:02:10.000 So fucked.

02:02:11.000 Yeah, it's lying.

02:02:13.000 It's just lying with computers.

02:02:15.000 Yeah.

02:02:16.000 And unfortunately, there's still a lot of people out there on the interweb going, well, I read it on the internet.

02:02:21.000 Oh, yeah.

02:02:22.000 Well, there's whole articles reading.

02:02:23.000 One commenter said, no, they didn't.

02:02:26.000 You know, if that's a fucking robot, are you going to make a retraction?

02:02:30.000 No, you're not.

02:02:31.000 You're not.

02:02:32.000 If that's AI, are you going to say something about that?

02:02:35.000 Are you going to say there's a problem?

02:02:36.000 No, you're not going to say, because your whole business is clickbait.

02:02:39.000 And the more you have negative comments you could use to start the formulation of an article, okay, that's how you make a living.

02:02:47.000 And so don't read their fucking articles either.

02:02:49.000 This is the key.

02:02:50.000 You have to just interact only with real humans.

02:02:54.000 I got in the practice of just being like, okay, what I'm about to say is going to be political, involves scary words, Democrat, Republican.

02:03:02.000 It's going to make you uncomfortable.

02:03:04.000 Don't believe me.

02:03:05.000 Go to the federalregister.gov.

02:03:08.000 That's the source material.

02:03:10.000 Read it for yourself.

02:03:11.000 I'm just going to tell you what I read in there on these pages.

02:03:16.000 That's the source material.

02:03:17.000 Go read it.

02:03:18.000 Like, that's where the land sales are happening.

02:03:20.000 That's where it's outlined.

02:03:22.000 The text is there.

02:03:23.000 It's the journal of the government printed every day online.

02:03:27.000 Go read it.

02:03:28.000 And, you know, for The little stuff on the podcast.

02:03:31.000 I don't deal with it.

02:03:32.000 It's like the Montgomery Teller said an alligator came out.

02:03:38.000 I don't say that.

02:03:39.000 Cal's Week in Review.

02:03:40.000 Yeah.

02:03:41.000 Yeah.

02:03:41.000 Tell everybody your podcast.

02:03:44.000 Cal's Week in Review.

02:03:45.000 We do news, outdoor news, and we cover legislation.

02:03:48.000 It's a fun podcast.

02:03:48.000 It's fun.

02:03:49.000 The legislative desk.

02:03:51.000 Yeah.

02:03:52.000 You have a good time with it, though.

02:03:54.000 Man, there's some good times.

02:03:56.000 There's some burnout times, right?

02:03:58.000 Yeah.

02:03:58.000 We're like screaming into the void.

02:04:00.000 Like, guys, this land sale's coming.

02:04:02.000 Yeah.

02:04:03.000 Yeah.

02:04:03.000 Coming hot.

02:04:04.000 Well, people listen to you, fortunately.

02:04:07.000 Oh.

02:04:09.000 It's got to feel a little good.

02:04:12.000 Doesn't it feel good that people united and listened?

02:04:16.000 I am trying to make it feel really good.

02:04:18.000 But you're scared it's going to happen again.

02:04:20.000 Because I know it's going to happen again.

02:04:22.000 Again, I'm wearing the same shirt that I wore on this show talking about this same stuff six years ago or whenever we decided it was, right?

02:04:33.000 And I do, I feel really, really good.

02:04:35.000 Like a lot of people came out.

02:04:38.000 They threw political baggage aside and they talked about how important this stuff is and it's incredibly important to me.

02:04:47.000 And I thank them all from the bottom of my heart because it is so important and one voice is just not going to do this, right?

02:04:55.000 So that does feel good.

02:04:57.000 That does feel good.

02:04:58.000 I just kind of wanted there to be a vote on this amendment so all the American people can see exactly who voted for it and exactly who voted against it.

02:05:11.000 And just lay it out on the table for everybody.

02:05:11.000 Yeah.

02:05:14.000 That would be nice.

02:05:15.000 And it'd be nice to see like what special interests were involved and what money was pushing it in that direction.

02:05:15.000 Yeah.

02:05:23.000 Yeah.

02:05:24.000 Absolutely.

02:05:26.000 I mean, just we need a higher, and most people won't do this even if we had the ability, but we need more peeks behind the curtain, right?

02:05:26.000 Yeah.

02:05:37.000 We need more accountability.

02:05:39.000 Like, so just a great example.

02:05:41.000 I'm up at the state capitol in Montana.

02:05:44.000 We just, our legislative session just ended at the beginning of the year.

02:05:50.000 And there's some knucklehead brings this judicial amendment up to join, for the state of Montana to join Utah's lawsuit to sell off 18.5 million acres of public land.

02:06:11.000 And 115 people showed up to testify against the state.

02:06:17.000 This is during work hours in a Montana winter.

02:06:21.000 115 people show up to testify against this.

02:06:25.000 And there's some online two there, to be fair.

02:06:28.000 Originally, there were 10 people signed up to testify in favor of joining the lawsuit.

02:06:35.000 All 10 of those people drop off.

02:06:38.000 They only give everybody two minutes to testify in front of committee.

02:06:42.000 Everybody testifies, don't do this, bad for Montana, bad for all these other reasons.

02:06:48.000 Professional people, some lobbyists, nonprofit people, but just a lot of people being like, yeah, I'm a dad and this is where I take my kids.

02:07:00.000 Like, why would we do this?

02:07:03.000 That committee approves it and sends it through.

02:07:09.000 Wow.

02:07:10.000 And there's no accountability.

02:07:12.000 You can't say, okay, how many people called your office?

02:07:14.000 How many emails did you get?

02:07:16.000 None.

02:07:17.000 Your representatives just decide against the will of the people.

02:07:17.000 Right.

02:07:21.000 The ones that showed up and were vocal.

02:07:24.000 Right?

02:07:25.000 So how do it work?

02:07:27.000 And I understand why people do not trust this stuff.

02:07:31.000 That's a hard experience to have.

02:07:33.000 It's hidden on purpose.

02:07:35.000 They want to be able to do what they want to do.

02:07:38.000 Yeah.

02:07:38.000 And there's a lot of money that gets them elected.

02:07:40.000 And once they get in there, they get these phone calls from these folks.

02:07:44.000 Hey, I need you to do this.

02:07:45.000 Yeah.

02:07:47.000 Yeah.

02:07:47.000 Montana's a good example right now.

02:07:51.000 So John Tester, who was an awesome public lands guy, Democrat, farmer out of Big Sandy, Montana.

02:07:58.000 That's the only political donation I've ever made in my life was to his campaign because he was awesome on public lands.

02:08:08.000 He got, he lost this year.

02:08:12.000 So we have Tim Shees, our freshman senator in Montana.

02:08:17.000 So he's brand new.

02:08:18.000 He won John Tester's seat.

02:08:20.000 And then we have Steve Daines, who's been in for a long time.

02:08:23.000 He's a senior Republican, also on the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee.

02:08:29.000 And Republicans, and they said, not in as strong a words as I would want, that they're not for the sale of public lands during this fight, during the House, and then during the Senate fight again, we're not going to sell public lands.

02:08:49.000 Our Republican Ryan Zinke, also, he's a representative in the House.

02:08:56.000 You know, he said, that's my San Juan Hill.

02:08:59.000 He's like, I'm going to die on San Juan Hill before I vote to sell off America's public lands, right?

02:09:05.000 So I think for everybody else who's naysaying whether a Republican can do this or it's just the Democrats that are willing, I think we have a good example in Montana right now.

02:09:17.000 And I'm not saying give up.

02:09:18.000 I'm going to hold these people accountable and I think everybody else should too, that these Republicans are willing to go to bat for public lands right now.

02:09:28.000 And we're making it that like third rail issue where it's like, if you want to win in the state of Montana, you better be good on public lands.

02:09:36.000 Were there any Democrats that were in favor of selling off public lands?

02:09:39.000 Yeah.

02:09:41.000 One of your California folks came out early in the 30s.

02:09:43.000 That's fine.

02:09:44.000 I abandoned those people.

02:09:49.000 I identify as a Texan now.

02:09:51.000 I converted.

02:09:52.000 I transitioned.

02:09:53.000 Yes, I support you, Jim.

02:09:55.000 Thank you.

02:09:56.000 Thank you for seeing my truth.

02:09:56.000 Thank you.

02:09:59.000 But, you know, it's another easy answer to the very hard question of affordable housing.

02:10:11.000 Right?

02:10:11.000 So I think there's plenty of Democrats out there.

02:10:14.000 I think it's a bullshit answer.

02:10:16.000 Oh, it's a total bullshit answer.

02:10:17.000 They just want to sell the land.

02:10:18.000 I don't think they had any interest in turning it into public housing.

02:10:24.000 No.

02:10:25.000 Fuck off.

02:10:25.000 Fuck off is right.

02:10:26.000 Put public housing in the middle of the woods.

02:10:28.000 Fuck off.

02:10:29.000 No.

02:10:29.000 It's not what you're doing.

02:10:31.000 No.

02:10:32.000 Plus, it's one of those things you say to people, so they're like, oh, it would go to the greater good.

02:10:36.000 Well, my God, we've been talking about urban renewal for how long in this country, right?

02:10:41.000 Like, there's a lot of places that are not going to be good for wildlife, not going to be good for the matriculation of clean water.

02:10:49.000 They're not producing clean air.

02:10:51.000 That could be great, affordable housing or just housing in general for people.

02:10:57.000 But that's hard.

02:10:58.000 It's not convenient.

02:10:59.000 Exactly.

02:11:00.000 Not convenient.

02:11:01.000 That's the thing.

02:11:02.000 Well, thank you for doing what you do, brother.

02:11:05.000 And thank you for being such a vocal spokesperson during this time because it was really, really impactful.

02:11:11.000 It made a lot.

02:11:12.000 It made a lot of difference.

02:11:13.000 Really did.

02:11:14.000 Well, I'm going to be here for the next one, Joe.

02:11:16.000 All right.

02:11:16.000 Let's hope we don't have to do this again.

02:11:18.000 I want to change my shirt.

02:11:21.000 Let's hope we don't have to do it again.

02:11:23.000 But if we do, we'll do it again.

02:11:24.000 All right.

02:11:25.000 Thanks a bunch of people.

02:11:25.000 Thank you, brother.

02:11:26.000 And Cal's Week in Review, it's available everywhere.

02:11:29.000 Apple, Spotify, all that jazz, right?

02:11:31.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:11:33.000 Old Cal406 on the Instagram.

02:11:35.000 And if you want to do me a huge favor, I'm the North American board chair for backcountry hunters and anglers.

02:11:43.000 And we put in over 150,000 comments, phone calls from real people who used our action alert center during this public lands battle.

02:11:56.000 And that's made a big difference because we can go into those offices and say, hey, 2,500 people called your office today.

02:12:05.000 Have you heard about public lands?

02:12:07.000 So become a member.

02:12:08.000 It helps us out and we'll help you out.

02:12:11.000 And we're not going to give up on this stuff.

02:12:12.000 I'm a lifetime member.

02:12:14.000 Love you, both.

02:12:14.000 Love you, too, both.

02:12:15.000 All right.

The Joe Rogan Experience - July 16, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2350 - Ryan Callaghan

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Summary

Transcript